The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewThe Saker Archive
Uber-Loser Poroshenko Goes "Full Saakashvili"
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Petro Poroshenko is in deep trouble. His ratings have been in the single-digit range in spite of a vast propaganda effort, and his latest attempt to create a salvific crisis involving the usual “Russian aggression” has not only failed but appears to be backfiring.

The Ukronazi commander-in-chief hard at work :-)
The Ukronazi commander-in-chief hard at work :-)

It is now becoming abundantly clear that the Ukronazi provocation was not only breathtakingly stupid and irresponsible, but also poorly planned and executed. The documents seized by the FSB on the Ukrainian ships show that the Ukrainian captains were given the order to “covertly” sneak under the Kerch bridge. I have no idea what the Ukronazi junta leaders were thinking, maybe there were drunk or terrified to tell Poroshenko that this was a suicidal mission (most likely he was too drunk to care anyway), but the fact that they could even imagine that three old boats could somehow sneak around the Crimean Peninsula and then covertly pass under the Kerch bridge is just amazing (as is the fact that the crews failed to destroy this damning evidence!). One of the most heavily monitored sections of our planet, right next to a war zone, which has been the object of innumerable threats, and yet they thought that they could somehow avoid being detected and intercepted. Wow, just wow!

As for the crews of these three tiny ships, they all owe their lives to the FSB Coastguard officers, who could have merely blown all three ships away in seconds, but clearly did their utmost to avoid killing any of the Ukrainians. Only after many hours of absolutely ridiculous slow speed maneuvering (if you speak Russian, you can listen to the entire radio exchange between the two sides right here), did the Russians eventually fire a few shots and ram the Ukrainian tug. Frankly, these Coastguard officers deserve some kind of humanitarian award.

(Soviet and now) Russian Border Guards should in no case be assumed to be some kind of Russian version of the sort of border guards you see in the West. The truth is that the Russian border guards are an elite force whose level of training can be compared with the famous Airborne Forces. Their role is not only to check visas and look for contraband, but also to be a real fighting force which, in case of war, would be tasked with resisting the enemy until the regular armed forces take over. They are subordinated to the FSB (in the past to the KGB) because they do conduct intelligence operations and because they are a key element in the Russian counter-terrorist and counter-insurgency capabilities. This is why such elite special forces as the KGB Vympel Spetsnaz unit so often recruited border guards. A good friend of mine who used to be a Vympel commander with the rank of Colonel told me how in Afghanistan they recruited as many border guards as paratroopers because in his opinion “they were at least as tough and disciplined” as the airborne soldiers. The Russian border guards are also equipped with modern and powerful weapons and can conduct sub-unit level combat operations. The Ukrainian officers must have known this, and thus must have realized that regardless of the number of weapons they had onboard (quite a lot, actually, see here), they had no chance whatsoever to prevail. Besides, the Ukrainian ships are tiny and old while the Russian border guards could count on Black Sea Fleet and Aerospace and Ground Forces support – hence the Ka-52s and Su-25′s scrambled to meet the Ukrainian reinforcements coming from Odessa. Frankly, I don’t think that even a full US Marine Expeditionary Unit could cross the Kerch Strait, let alone the Ukrainians :-) the geography just favors the defending side too much

There is a broad consensus in both Russia and the Ukraine that the primary goal of Poroshenko was to create a pretext to introduce martial law and cancel the elections. Once introduced, such a martial law can easily be prolonged for as long as needed; see what the French did. He planned to introduce martial law over the entire Nazi-occupied Ukraine, and then prolong it for as long as needed; enough to cancel the elections and then harshly deal with any protests. The plan completely failed.

First, all the opposition parties immediately understood what this was all about, and they all vehemently protested. When the text came to a vote in the Rada, it was massively watered-down and, as a result, the martial law will only be introduced for one month and only in the following regions of the Ukraine:

Martial law areas marked in red
Martial law areas marked in red

This is bad, very bad news for Petro.

First, these areas are where the regime suspects the locals of pro-Russian sympathies (they are right, by the way). But the risk for Petro does not come at all from the pro-Russian folks; the real danger for him comes from the various nationalist legal opposition movements who have their power base in the blue areas which will not be covered by this law.

Second, since the law was introduced for only one month and since it includes an obligation not to cancel the upcoming elections, it will be hard for Petro to crack down on the propaganda capabilities of his opponents (lead by Iulia Timoshenko).

Third, Petro probably hoped that the Russians would simply use a few missiles or blow the Ukrainian three ship armada into smithereens. Alas, the evil Moskal’s did nothing of the sort, and they captured all three vessels and their crews. So as panic-generating incidents go, this one was a terrible flop. In fact, the Russians are now using these ships and crews for their own propaganda which ridicules Petro and (correctly) states that the regime in Kiev sent these sailors to certain death in total, abject indifference. None of that will increase Poroshenko’s ratings…

ORDER IT NOW

Fourth, it appears that Poroshenko is really going “full-Saakashvili” and might even become the Empire’s worst Uber-loser which, by the way, can get him into real trouble with his bosses in Washington and Langley (who ditched Saakashvili when he proved to be a worthless loser). Frankly, the Empire would be much better off with Timoshenko in charge rather than this Eltsin-like alcoholic imbecile.

So the big question #1 is: is there a viable alternative to Poroshenko for the Empire?

Latest EuroUkros rating according to a Ukrainian source
Latest EuroUkros rating according to a Ukrainian source

To answer that we first need to answer another basic question: is there a public, official opposition in Nazi-controlled Ukraine or not?

The answer is: both yes and no.

First, no, not in the sense of some more or less decent, real opposition.

But yes, in the sense that the junta which seized power is composed of many different factions including oligarch/mobsters à la Kolomoskii, neo-Nazis à la Farion, bona fide Nazis à la Tiagnibok and assorted nutcases like Liashko. There is also Iulia Timoshenko, a very sharp and therefore potentially dangerous foe who has powerful backers in the USA.

Take a look at these latest ratings, and you will see that in spite of a huge “administrative resource” (Russian euphemism for abuse of government power), Petro barely makes it to 9.9% which means that his real rating must be somewhere in the 3-5 percent range.

And, remember, time is running out. On December 27th the martial law will be lifted (barring yet another Ukro-provocation to prove to the world that Russia has attacked the Ukraine yet again). Well, that is the official plan. In reality, it will most likely be prolonged with some more excuses about the mythical “Russian aggression”.

Also, consider this: if Poroshenko gets the boot, so will his criminally psychopathic thugs like (certified clinically insane) Parubii, the “bloody pastor” and war criminal Turchinov and the rest of the gang. Klimkin, since he appears to be in the CIA’s payroll, might make it out in time, but for the rest of them the risk is real and ranges from long jail sentences to being shot. Don’t expect Iulia Timoshenko to show any mercy either.

True, while these folks all hate each other, they all feed from the same two mangers: rabid russophobia and total dependence on the Empire. And while they are united in their hatred for evereything Russian, they hate each other just only a tiny little bit less (some probably even more). Think of how the SS butchered the SA, how the Stalinists purged the Party from Trotskyists or how the Democrats are trying to overthrow Trump by hook or by crook, and you will see how the factions inside the same gang always struggle for power and gun for each other.

Finally, there are many signs that at least Trump himself does not care very much about the Ukraine, albeit there are enough rabid russophobes amongst his puppeteers to compensate for Trump’s lack of interest and alleged dislike for Poroshenko. For Poroshenko’s point of view, the Americans either don’t care enough or simply lost control of the situation, a time-honored US tradition with their “sons of bitches” like Saddam, Noriega and many, many others.

By the way, various Ukrainian sources also report that both Merkel and Stoltenberg told Poroshenko that the election cannot be canceled. Considering that Poroshenko is almost sure to lose these elections, this might indicate that Germany and NATO are ditching Petro.

Add to this that Timoshenko would be a much better agent for the Empire and you can see why the regime is freaking out.

So the bottom line is this: no, by the standards of a normal civilized country, there is no real opposition in the Ukraine (except the powerless, destitute and terrified population of course). But, far more importantly, by the standards of Petro Poroshenko, there is a real and very dangerous opposition indeed; one which will most definitely oust him in any semi-credible elections.

The Nazi-occupied Ukraine is rapidly coming to a watershed moment. Unless the elections are stolen and the opposition crushed, the current gang in power will be ousted. If the Ukraine attacks the Donbass, this will end up with a military disaster, either at the hands of the Novorussians, or at the hands of the Russian military. If the Ukraine attacks Russia directly, or Russian forces in the Black Sea, then the Ukrainian military will simply vanish in 24-48 hours max. But in spite of that, Poroshenko desperately needs a victory lest his status of “Saakashvili-like Uber-loser” is publicly confirmed for all to see and for the Ukrainian opposition to blame it all on his incompetence and corruption (which is his real specialty: this is also why, since he came to power the Ukraine became a failed-state while his personal net worth increased many times over).

60 days? Really?
60 days? Really?

Finally, the fact that Poroshenko is a sinking ship means that, far from taking any risks on his behalf, Ukrainian politicians and military commanders must ask themselves every time they take a decision who will protect them if things go south. In fact, I bet you that there are a lot of discrete contacts between various high ranking Ukrainian officials and Iulia Timoshenko, something which the SBU probably reports to Poroshenko (or, worse, not!) and which further creates a sense of panic in him and his minions. This sense of panic might explain why, in the official journal the text of the new law mistakenly wrote 60, and not 30, days.

Putin is quite correct when he says that “Kiev would get away even with eating babies“: the collective hypocrisy of the collective West is truly limitless. That, however, does not mean that Poroshenko personally could get away with anything and everything. While the Empire’s leaders have to pretend to back the Ukraine no matter what, even against basic common sense, they are probably getting mighty fed up to have to scream “white!!” every time Poroshenko does something black. Still, until the Empire puts somebody else in power, Poroshenko will remain “their son of a bitch in Kiev”. And Poroshenko knows that, which begs the next big question:

Big question #2: could Poroshenko really start large scale war?

“Eating babies” is all fine and dandy, but a full-scale war with either Novorussia or Russia is a very different and far more dangerous proposition. The Empire might not care about Ukrainian babies, but it will most definitely care about a big war in the Ukraine. So, let’s not just look at what the Ukronazis are saying but also looking at what they are doing:

  • There is martial law in all the Ukronazi occupied areas of Novorussia.
  • All the Novorussian cities are now surrounded by military checkpoints.
  • 300 hospitals have been ordered to prepare for a massive influx of casualties by stocking up on blood, beds and meds.
  • The Ukrainian first-line reserves have now been mobilized, as have the Nazi death-squads (aka “volunteer battalions”).
  • Petro is now claiming that the Russians have tripled their forces along the Ukrainian border: “the number of tanks in the bases, which are located along our border, has tripled. The number of units relocated has increased dramatically covering the entire length of our border”; in plain English that means that the Ukronazis are probably doing exactly that – surging their numbers along the line of contact.
  • Petro also said that his intelligence agencies “have clear evidence that an attack on Ukrainian ships is just the beginning“; in plain English this means that the Ukronazis are probably doing exactly that – preparing further attacks.
  • The border with Crimea has been closed to all non-Ukrainians.
  • The Ukrainians are now asking Turkey to close the Bosporus strait (which won’t happen for two reasons: the 1936 Montreux Convention forbids this and that would be a suicidal act of war for Turkey).
  • The Ukrainian war propaganda induced hysteria has reached new levels: they are now showing how kids from an orphanage (!) in Mariupol digging trenches to help the Ukrainian army for the upcoming “Russian invasion”. See for yourself this Ukrainian the report:

The art of surprise attack is one of the most fascinating aspects of warfare (those interested in this topic should read Richard Bett’s superb study “Surprise Attack: Lessons for Defense Planning“). One of it’s well established strategies is to pretend to go to war and then back down at the last moment over and over again: this wears down the opponent and lures him into complacency until one day you actually strike. Think of it as a variation on the “crying wolf” strategy if you want: one in which the wolf does the crying. The Ukrainians have been doing that for years now (how many times have we all heard that a Ukrainian attack was “imminent”?). The problem here is that this time around the war preparations are larger (and far more costly). However, you can be certain that the Russians have been on full alert also for years and that they now permanently have more than enough forces available to deal with any Ukie attack, ranging from cross-border small arms fire to a full scale war.

So we can all hope that, once again, the Ukronazis are playing their “crying wolf” strategy only to back down at the last second. But hope should always remain separate from expectations and to make the assumption that this time around they won’t actually attack would be extremely foolish.

First the Popes tried, then Napoleon, then Hitler and now these two geniuses..
First the Popes tried, then Napoleon, then Hitler and now these two geniuses..

There are those who say that Poroshenko is not dumb enough to start war against Russia. My question to them would be: do you really think that Poroshenko is smarter than, say, the various Latin Popes, Napoleon or Hitler? To me, he looks about as stupid and clueless (not to mention evil and absolutely immoral) as Saakashvili. Now just remember what happened in 08.08.08.

You might wonder whether the USA would be interested in a major war in the Ukraine. I have been saying for years now that the Neocon wet dream is to force Russia to openly intervene and that in order to achieve this result all the Ukronazis need to do is to seriously threaten the DNR and LNR. Will the Novorussians be strong enough to beat back a Ukronazi attack without overt Russian intervention? Maybe. Probably. But that is also not an assumption which we can make because the Novorussians have no strategic depth which places them in the very vulnerable position to have to stop the attackers without trading space for time. In plain English that means that the Novorussians have to be more or less on constant alert and that their forces must be forward deployed, which is very hard to sustain over time and simply dangerous, especially against an enemy with numerically much larger forces.

Crucially, the Neocons have nothing to lose if their plan fails and the Novorussians succeed in, once again, stopping the Ukronazi forces without a Russian intervention (it’s not like the Neocons care about Ukrainian or Novorussian lives since they don’t even care about the lives of US citizens).

It might well be that Trump is personally not interested in such a war. But, let’s face it, Trump is the worst overcooked noodle to sit in the White House (he makes Carter look like a roaring lion!). Just hours after he declared that it was “a very good time to have the meeting” with Putin he then “was changed his mind” and now has canceled the meeting. Trump is all about narcissistic hot air, but he never delivers anything and he has bowed down to his Neocon masters on everything since he made it into the White House. The sad truth is that Trump has become simply irrelevant, at least to the Russians (and to those who might still believe that Trump is playing some 4D chess I would say that systematically caving in to all the demands of the Neocons (and thereby making them increasingly more influential) is hardly a chess strategy, not even a 2D one).

Trumps latest zig-zags about meeting with Putin is yet another example of the glaring ignorance the current US leaders suffer from. They simply have no idea what the function and purpose of diplomacy is. Dmitri Trenin, the director of the Carnegie Moscow Center, was absolutely correct when he tweeted today that “Meeting a US President is not a reward for a RUS leader. Canceling a mtg is no punishment. It is all a matter of necessity. RUS-US relationship today is solely about preventing the confrontation from turning into a collision, and escalating to war. This is all“. But the Americans are simply to illiterate to understand that. Besides, the Russians have long given up on any notion of being able to get anything done with this Neocon-doormat President. He wants to meet? Sure. He don’t. Who cares? This is the sorry state to which a nuclear superpower has slouched to.

I am sure that Putin was terrified :-)
I am sure that Putin was terrified :-)

Ditto for his moronic VP who tried to scare Putin by “staring him down” with his rendition of what he hopes what a “steel glare” in Singapore. Putin just kept smiling, of course.

The frightening reality is that the Neocons are the most rabid russophobes on the planet and that the clowns in the White House will do whatever the US deep state tells them to do. Don’t count on them for decency or even minimal common sense.

Furthermore, as I have already said many times, Trump is an “expendable President” for the Neocons: should anything he does end in disaster, they will blame it all on him, and put their own trusted person in power to replace it.

For all these reasons, the answer to our question is obvious: yes, Poroshenko most definitely is capable of ordering some kind of crazy attack, including a full scale war.

ORDER IT NOW

But “could” does not mean “will”, thank God! Maybe, just like this past summer, the junta will get cold feet and back down (Putin’s threat that any attack will have most serious consequences for the Ukrainian statehood is still very much valid). In theory the spineless Europeans (who will suffer the economic and social consequences of any major conflict) might also tell the crazies in Kiev to cool it. But I am not holding my breath here.

So let’s hope for the best, but keep in mind that the worst is a very real possibility.

Conclusion: it is next to impossible to prevent a “suicide by cop” – but maybe God will!

Right now the situation is extremely dangerous and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Philosophers say that love is the greatest force in the universe, and I very much agree with that. But the next two most powerful forces are evil and stupidity, and there is plenty of both in Kiev and Washington DC. The incident with the “covert operation” of the “Ukrainian armada” might look funny until you recall all the wars which were stared over other such equally minor incidents. This time around the superb restraint of the Russian border guards prevented Kiev from getting the bloody clash it was obviously hoping for, but ask any policeman and he will tell you that it is almost impossible to prevent what is known as “suicide by cop”. The Empire badly needs the Russian cop to (finally!) shoot, and so does the Ukronazi junta (all this propaganda, including from Russian pseudo-patriots, about Putin being weak or indecisive or even in cahoots with the Empire is a direct PSYOP product of that imperial agenda, whether those who parrot that nonsense realize it or not).

At this point in time, there is no way to predict whether the Ukronazi junta will attack for real or not. So, as I have done several times in the past, I will conclude with this passage from the Quran: “and they (disbelievers) plotted [to kill ‘Iesa (Jesus)], and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners” (verse 54 of Chapter 3 “Surah Al-‘Imran”); other translations say “And the unbelievers schemed [against Jesus]; but God brought their scheming to nought: for God is above all schemers” and “And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah“. At a time when the Neocons are trying to convince the planet that Islam, not them, is the biggest danger to our planet, it is good to show them that not everybody is drinking their cool-aid; besides, in this case the Quran is simply right: God is the best of planners and the Ukronazi disbelievers (and their Neocon bosses) will eventually find this out, probably the hard way.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Neocons, Russia, Ukraine 
Hide 324 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Cyrano says:

    It seems that I have misunderestimated the Ukrainians. It looks like they’ve been busy studying some history (I know, I find this hard to believe too – Ukrainians and studying history in the same sentence).

    But anyhow, what they seem to have found in the history books about the Crimean war, is the story about the charge of the light brigade. Obviously they have thought to themselves – if the British could have launched the charge of the light brigade, why couldn’t they – the Ukrainians launch the charge of the light navy – especially since that’s all they’ve got – light navy.

    This just shows how clever the Ukrainians really are. How they were able to cross-apply stuff that they learned from land based military operations and employ the same clever tactics at sea. Impressive. Unfortunately, the charge of the light brigade wasn’t exactly a success, but then again, knowing the Ukrainians, I don’t think that they ever had any ambition to be successful at anything.

  2. peterAUS says:

    After wading through the usual Saker, heavily peppered with

    ..Ukronazi…. Ukronazi junta…Nazi-occupied Ukraine….Ukronazis…..Ukronazi occupied areas….Nazi death-squads….Ukronazi forces..

    and similar, finally got to the interesting part:

    …to force Russia to openly intervene and that in order to achieve this result all the Ukronazis need to do is to seriously threaten the DNR and LNR. Will the Novorussians be strong enough to beat back a Ukronazi attack without overt Russian intervention? Maybe. Probably.

    No, the Novorussians will not be strong enough. Russians will have to get involved.
    Coupled with

    The sad truth is that Trump has become simply irrelevant, at least to the Russians (and to those who might still believe that Trump is playing some 4D chess I would say that systematically caving in to all the demands of the Neocons (and thereby making them increasingly more influential) is hardly a chess strategy, not even a 2D one).

    And

    The frightening reality is that the Neocons are the most rabid russophobes on the planet and that the clowns in the White House will do whatever the US deep state tells them to do. Don’t count on them for decency or even minimal common sense.

    The author appears to be worried. Make of that what you will.
    I have.

  3. I understand you’re angry, Mr Saker, but let’s face the facts here. So far Poroshenko paid no real price for his dangerous provocation. On the other hand we see that G20 talks between Trump and Putin have been cancelled, EU is considering new economic sanctions on Russia, and martial law in South-Eastern regions will come in handy, once they start expropriating Russian churches there.

    Overall, this looks like a win for Ukrainian regime. It is not yet clear how significant it proves to be, but it’s a win, and that means the regime has no reason to stop behaving the way they do.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @Anonymous
    , @peterAUS
  4. yurivku says:

    The Empire badly needs the Russian cop to (finally!) shoot, and so does the Ukronazi junta (all this propaganda, including from Russian pseudo-patriots, about Putin being weak or indecisive or even in cahoots with the Empire…

    Sure. True-patriots of Russia, as we know, are living in the US, they watch Russian TV from there, translate and put it here. Great.
    But seeing from Russia, – yes, “Putin being weak and indecisive ” despite, of course, not being desperate imbecile as trump is.

  5. One minute before global rule by the Kingdom of the Blataria….for sure if Russia targets the Yellowstone Caldera…..The Reign of the BLATARIA….John Bolton’s wet dream just may come true….

    America is a Satanic Black Mass…..In post-Christian America….reality is completely inverted…….The BLATARIA have been waiting patiently…..

  6. jimmyark says:

    saker has gone full shabbas everything is nazi, i dont see a single thing nazi about poroshenko yet that is his governments main description, looses credibility with his hysterics

  7. @War for Blair Mountain

    “A screaming came across the sky….”

    Dorothy:”Toto…I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore………”

    Mike Pence….the banality of evil Evangelical Christian America….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  8. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich

    On the other hand we see that G20 talks between Trump and Putin have been cancelled,

    So what? It’s clear for Putin that any talks with Trump are bloody useless, sanctions add nothing new etc.. But I do agree with

    Overall, this looks like a win for Ukrainian regime.

    And that’s again about Putin bein weak etc (соплежуй) … Well, actually he’s not weak, just his interests and interests of people of Russia are not the same.

  9. @jimmyark

    The Ukraino Nazis are the (((NEOCON)))’s muscle in the Ukraine…Notwithstanding…The Alt Right….The only US Antiwar Movement in the US in 2018…are called NAZIS!!!! by the old farting hairy Bulldyke Hillary Clinton’s Democratic Party Voting Bloc…

  10. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I guess Russia’s mistake was intervening in Syria, thwarting the (((globalists))) from destroying another threat to Israel. I don’t see the ratcheting up of tension and actions against Russia ending any time soon. I think the goal is the neutralization, and then complete destruction, of Russia by the West. It is a fully-concerted operation in the West and all majors powers are onboard with this plan. It is clear, (((globalists))) have decided Russia as it exists must be ended. The life of Russia will be snuffed out like a boa constrictor. I’m sure the future government of Russia is being planned out in Foggy Bottom and Langley as we speak.

    • LOL: Felix Keverich
  11. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Mike Pence….the banality of evil Evangelical Christian America….

    Mike Pence left Catholicism to become an Evangelical Christian and Evangelicals are the most loyal servants of the oligarchs. But should we be surprised? Protestantism is pseudo-Christianity and was founded as a Jewish revolutionary movement to undermine the Christian Church (i.e., Catholic Church, which had existed for 1.5 millennia).

    The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit, by E. Michael Jones, p. 341:

    The evidence that Protestantism was Judaizing was there for all to see. Graetz and Newman agree the Jews played an important role in the Protestant revolt. Walsh quotes Cabrera, a Spanish Marrano, who claims “most of the heresiarchs and heretics of this present Century have been of those people,” i.e., the Jews. “It is beyond question,” he continues, citing another Jewish historian, that “the first leaders of the Protestant sects were called semi-Judaei, or half-Jews, in all parts of Europe,” and “men ofJewish descent were as conspicuous among them as they had been among the Gnostics and would later be among the Communists.”

    Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin were all students of Nicholas of Lyra, a Francis-can monk ofJewish descent who lived in the 14th Century. Nicholas got his ideas from Raschi, who was the conduit that allowed the Talmudic scholarship of his father, Isaac of Troyes, to flow directly into Protestantism. Reuchlin was another conduit. When Pfefferkorn accused Reuchlin of being in the pay of the Jews to disseminate their propaganda, the essential truth of the charge caused Reuchlin to issue a violent denial in his pamphlet Augenspiegel. Reuchlin’s battle with the Cologne Dominicans was the diversion that allowed Luther to issue his 95 the-ses with impunity. In each instance, Protestantism exhibited not an advance over Catholic thought, but “one long retrogression toward the moribund Judaism of the Pharisees of the time of Christ.” Conversos waiting impatiently to throw off the pretext of Catholicism were in communion with the Jews throughout Europe and together they formed the nucleus for the coming international revolt. Their skill in finance and printing made them powerful culture warriors who could influence events in ways their opponents had difficulty understanding, and they were quick to put these skills in the service of Messianic political movements. The constant in Jewish participa-tion in revolution from Simon bar Kokhba to Trotsky was not race but rejection of Christ. Revolution was a theological project from its inception:

    It was their great tragedy that, having failed to understand Who Christ was, [the Jews] could not get rid of the messianic consciousness for which they had been chosen and consecrated. Finding closed to them the only spiritual door to salvation, they were constantly driven to seek redemption in the here and now, in the resources of matter, in gold and power, in anything, anywhere but Christ. When all their kingdom had turned to dust in their patient hands, and the in-evitable scourge of persecution came to scatter them again and again, they still followed leaders who kept them blind, and remained missionaries of what Saint John called “the spirit that dissolves Christ.”

    Many of the Jews expelled from Spain and Portugal fled to cities in France. Many more made their way to the Spanish Netherlands, where Charles allowed them to flourish. Lucien Wolf claims large numbers of English Protestants-”and doubtless the most active in propaganda and organization” -were Jews who had become Calvinists in Antwerp where they were active in the Protestant movement

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Nonny
    , @anon
  12. Anonymous[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @jimmyark

    He’s not using it lightly. Large parts of the Ukrainian establishment are openly using old, WW2 Nazi iconography and rhetoric to whip up local white goyim into fighting Russian white goyim.

    It’s all quite sad since the people behind this are Jewish.

    (((Zbigniew Brzezinski))) planned it.

    (((Victoria Nuland))) started it.

    (((Petro Poroshenko))), (((Igor Kolomoisky))) and many (((others))) are running it.

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
  13. Valentina Lisitsa lost a high paying concert gig in Canada because of her opposition to the Ukraino Nazi Coup in the Ukraine…..THIS IS WAR!!!…..

    Greatest performance ever of Prokofiev’s Sonata #7=Valentina Lisitsa…..hands down!!!!

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  14. A123 says:

    It is an interesting day when Pat Buchanan and The Saker agree on something.

    ___________

    Soros-servitor Poreshenko tried this for internal political reasons. It doesn’t seem to be doing much to help his popularity.

    The loud Trump response is almost certainly more bluff than bite in this case. However, no one can be sure of that as he cultivates “Unpredictability as Strategy”. Trump gave Putin the excuse he needed to divert additional S-300/S-400 equipment to Crimea — Thus, keeping it away from the much more problematic Hezbollah/Iran vs. Israel front that is shaping up in Syria.

    Preliminary score is:
    – WIN-WIN for both Russia and the U.S.
    – LOSS to NWO/Globalists such as Soros, Obama, and Clinton.

  15. Mr. Hack says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    She’s not as clever as her foxy name might lead one to think. What does she expect, spouting off her pro-Putler opinions in the heart of North American Ukie-land? She probably wont get a warmer reception in the States either – time to look for a new circuit to sell her wares, maybe in Central or South America, where they don’t really give a rip about Eastern Europe anyway?…

  16. @peterAUS

    After wading through the usual Saker, heavily peppered with

    ..Ukronazi…. Ukronazi junta…Nazi-occupied Ukraine….Ukronazis…..Ukronazi occupied areas….Nazi death-squads….Ukronazi forces..

    he doesn’t even attempt to appear objective

    maybe Putin is threatening to cut off his rubles

  17. Well…Valentina Lisitsa is doing quite well financially these days because she has a lot of fans…48 million youtube hits…….

    The game the Western Ukrainians in Canada and Russia are playing has an expiration date……comming up soon….

    My strongest suspicion is that Gerasimov has already read Putin the riot act…If the Ukraino Nazis bomb a school in the breakaway regions and kill dozens of Orthodox Christian Russian School Children…The Russian Military will annihilate the Swedish…Polish…..Canadian Ukrainian Volunteers in the Azov Brigade….no mercy…

  18. @War for Blair Mountain

    Correction:in Canada and the Western Ukraine….

  19. peterAUS says:
    @Hebraic Hypocrite

    he doesn’t even attempt to appear objective

    Of course.
    But, who can, honestly, say he/she is, really? Looking at the mirror/quiet self-reflection isn’t popular today anywhere.Quite the opposite, looks like it.

    What is important, though, is an author/poster getting and presenting the reality well?

    My impression is, in THIS particular case, he is overestimating the danger he’s talking about here.

    I don’t see any major clash here, major being between Ukraine and Russia itself.

    If….if we see any serious hostilities it will be between Ukraine and rebels/whatever, first. Then, if/when Ukraine starts getting upper hand we’ll see Russian limited intervention to push them back. End of story, at least on the battlefield.
    Save same major human and/or technological error.
    Heavy political/economic fallout re WestRussia after that. How is that going to pan out no idea.

    Till next time. The overall game keeps playing out.

    maybe Putin is threatening to cut off his rubles

    That’s one possibility.
    Another is that the author is uncomfortable with result re Russia. Because, the only question he is interested in is, always:”Is it good for Russia”.

    He feels it is not.
    I agree.

    • Replies: @Hebraic Hypocrite
  20. @jimmyark

    Exactly right, Jimmy. The Saker’s tiresome, obsessive repetition of UkroNazi and all its variants is one reason why I’ve stopped forwarding his columns to people for their consideration. It makes him, and by extension me, look ridiculous.

    Yes, people out here should be educated that there are avowedly Nazi / neo-Nazi elements in the vehemently anti-Russian part of Ukraine’s population. Saker does that but then beats a dead horse and, seemingly, exaggerates the extent of supposed “Nazi” sentiment in Ukraine.

    Having someone as vitriolic as Saker can be entertaining, and he educates along with the ranting. He also might make less vitriolic, less emotional pro-Russian advocates sound moderate by comparison, in effect “re-framing the center” of the debate. But after a certain point, he doesn’t advance his own cause or Russia’s.

    • Replies: @Bill
  21. @Anonymous

    An adherent of the Roman Catholic Church thinks he’s in a good position to lecture Protestants, right now? Really?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  22. Nonny says:
    @Anonymous

    I think differently. Sorry, similarly. The Syria war from the start was part of a longer American plot to destroy the Russian economy by pushing a pipeline across Syria and also eliminate the Russian naval base there.

    • Replies: @Nonny
  23. Nonny says:
    @Nonny

    Differently in that it definitely was not a mistake for Russia to come to Syria’s rescue.

  24. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @RadicalCenter

    An adherent of the Roman Catholic Church thinks he’s in a good position to lecture Protestants, right now? Really?

    Lol, are you referring to the psyops orchestrated by the oligarch-controlled media and “justice” system? Seriously? I bet you believe Russia collusion and Douma chemical attack narratives as well.

    I’m guessing with the latest round of attacks on the Church and the push to undermine the moral authority of the bishops and silence them, they are looking to undertake another major Middle/Near East war. In the lead up to the Iraq War and the opposition from the pope and bishops, (((they))) had to undermine the moral authority of the Catholic Church and its bishops and they chose the center of American Catholicism, Boston. (((Marty Baron))) went from The Miami Herald to The Boston Globe in 2001. In 2002 The Boston Globe was “breaking” stories about priestly abuse that really only involved 8 priests, 4 of who had left the priesthood (e.g., Shanley, who left and started a B & B with his boyfriend in CA). One (Hanlon) was charged and in prison over a dozen years prior to The Boston Globe story. Some of the cases involving the 8 priests/former priests (out of 10k who’ve served in Boston since 1950’s) go back to the 70’s.

    But the real push was to create a cover-up by Cdl. Law and say that he knowingly covered up and transferred around these handful of bad priests. Which was as tenuous as Roger Stone and Jerome Corsi we’re cut-outs between Trump and Putin. The enemies of the Church are demonic and will say or do anything and pile on any calumny if it suits (((their))) agenda. But from your reply you have no problem pushing the oligarch narrative.

    • Replies: @mcohen
    , @Robjil
    , @ChuckOrloski
  25. Nonny says:
    @Anonymous

    Total, ridiculous nonsense. The Reformation was about reform. It was totally Christian. It held that Christ and only He was head of the Church and the Romish Popes usurping that role makes the Pope the Antichrist, obviously. And Protest in that era did not mean complain but proclaim.

    Papism is a Talmudic, infinitely elaborated, perversion of Christianity which only survives because it has set up primary schools everywhere to indoctrinate little children young enough to believe in Father Christmas and everything adults say.

  26. Anonymous[209] • Disclaimer says:
    @jimmyark

    Yeah, but what would you expect from a writer who cant figure out the difference between raising a question and begging it.

  27. @Anonymous

    if you persist in calling everyone you don’t like a Jew,

    the category will soon lose it’s discriminant value.

    Brzezinski was not a Jew. I knew and studied with him at Columbia U., 1972-74:

    ethnic slav, Polish national background, catholic religion.

  28. Miggle says:
    @Nonny

    I think you mean Rabbinical, rather than Talmudic, Nonny. Maybe both. It gives magical powers to its priests, who are concerned not with the Bible. It’s heresy even to read the Bible, though admittedly they relented a little on that. I have their Jerusalem Bible. But their concern is wholly with ritual, in particular their magical power to repeatedly sacrifice Christ’s physical body. Christ at the table breaking bread said, “This is my body, broken for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” He remained sitting at the table because his real body had not been broken. But if you hold that at Holy Communion you break ordinary bread in remembrance of Christ, and not Christ’s physical body, the “church” of the Antichrist wants to burn you to ashes. It fortunately no longer, since the last case in mid-19th century Spain, no longer has the power to do that, but would if it could.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  29. @peterAUS

    Of course.
    But, who can, honestly, say he/she is, really? Looking at the mirror/quiet self-reflection isn’t popular today anywhere.Quite the opposite, looks like it.

    What is important, though, is an author/poster getting and presenting the reality well?

    i couldn’t get past the title, its like something a child comes up with

    “uber-loser Poroshenko….”??

    come on

  30. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miggle

    I think you mean Rabbinical, rather than Talmudic, Nonny. Maybe both. It gives magical powers to its priests, who are concerned not with the Bible

    We Catholics doesn’t revere the Bible any less than Protestants, after all, it is our book. The Catholic Church existed prior to the Bible being under one cover and infallibly determined its canon over a millennia before the start of the Protestant Reformation. But to use our book in order to criticize us is unmitigated gall!

    To be Protestant, to be part of this pseudo-Christianity, is to be an enemy of Christ. But I guess that’s what its founders intended.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  31. Miggle says:
    @Anonymous

    Amusing, the clangings of a brain ossified by early childhood indoctrination. The Protestant Church is Bible-based, the “church” of the Antichrist is based on a lot of superstitions and corrupt, self-aggrandizing claims, gone polytheistic with prayers to minor gods they call saints, and a lot more nonsense.

    The foundation of the Church is that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah and the Son of the Living God.

    Jesus was explicit when Peter as spokesman for all the Apostles, all of whom had been traveling with him for many months and watched that great Physician healing thousands, and rebuking the Pharisees with hundreds of spot-on Old-Testament quotes, any one of them could have said that, when Peter said it (Matthew 16:16). We have a play on a couple of Greek words there, but they wouldn’t have been speaking Greek, and it’s a side-track anyway. (And Jesus had just addressed him as Simon Bar-Jona.) Jesus said in essence, on this foundation (the belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the Living God), on this foundation He would build His Church.

    Is there something you disagree with there? There can’t be, can there? It would be silly to say the Christian Church has any other foundation, wouldn’t it?

    Let me quote a 16th-Century author who fled Bloody Mary and lived to write a book, John Foxe. He doesn’t abbreviate “Master” to “Mr” as we would.

    Then Master Ridley was committed as a prisoner to the mayor. [To be executed.]

    Immediately Master Latimer was sent for, whom the Bishop of Lincoln desired to recant, revoke his errors, and turn to the catholic church.

    ‘No, my lord,’ interrupted Master Latimer. ‘I confess there is a catholic church, but not the church which you call catholic, which sooner might be called diabolic. It is one thing to say Romish church, and another thing to say catholic church: I must use here the counsel of Cyprian, who at what time he was ascited before certain bishops demanded of them sitting in judgment, which was most like to be of the Church of Christ, whether he who was persecuted, or they who did persecute? “Christ,” said he, “hath foreshadowed, that he that doth follow Him, must take up His cross. Christ gave knowledge that the disciples should have persecution and trouble. How think you then, my lords, is it most like that the see of Rome, which hath been a continual persecutor, is rather the Church, or that flock which hath continually been persecuted of it, even to death?”’

    Anyone who disagreed with Latimer would have to do it anonymously, to hide his silliness, I think.

    What about you?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  32. Maybe Porky wanted to accomplish something as simple as; causing Trump to cancel his planned G20 side meeting with Putin.

  33. @Hebraic Hypocrite

    Can you enlightened us where exactly Saker is wrong? Ukraine is lead by neonazi gangs, Bandera followers, Russophobic hysteria, resembling WW2 events. It is a disgrace for humanity what is happening in this ‘country’. It is even bigger disgrace that western hypocrites support this abomination aka Ukraine.

    • Replies: @nickels
  34. Anon[106] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Add to this that Timoshenko would be a much better agent for the Empire and you can see why the regime is freaking out.

    What if Timo gets the Bhutto Treatment?

    Btw, it is Ukraine, not The Ukraine.

  35. @Nonny

    Papism is a Talmudic, infinitely elaborated, perversion of Christianity which only survives because it has set up primary schools everywhere to indoctrinate little children young enough to believe in Father Christmas and everything adults say.

    Well, strictly speaking, the indoctrination of “little children young enough to believe in Father Christmas and everything adults say” is the only reason any religion (or culture) ever survives. That’s why having our educational system taken over by a bunch of Jomos eager to push Cultural Marxism on the young is so very unfortunate for our civilization.

    • Agree: CalDre
  36. There is also Iulia Timoshenko, a very sharp and therefore potentially dangerous foe who has powerful backers in the USA.

    Is that true? Wasn’t she the one who, as Ukrainian prime minister, cut a deal with Putin in 2009 to end the natural gas standoff with Russia? And isn’t it also true that Vicky Nulands preferred Arseni Yatsenyuk (‘Yats’) over her back in 2014, while Merkel wanted Timoshenko back? I guess Washington must really be desperate now if they’re looking to old retreads for help.

  37. Is Kramp-Karrenbauer another Kraut Lesbo?…Seriously…the Germans are begging to be nuked by Russia…..

  38. nickels says:
    @Melotte 22

    Maybe someone can explain the Slav nazi thing to me, I don’t get it.
    Are the Ukrainian Banderistas ethnic Germans? They don’t seem to act like it. Ethnic Germans would not be so erratic and stupid (ethnic Germans have their faults, but not erratic and stupid).
    So who are they, exactly?
    And if they aren’t ethnic German, why would they subscribe to the Nazi ideology, which is clearly racist against Slavs?

    I am thinking maybe they are just thugs and calling them Nazis makes little sense.

    Also, maybe someone can explain Slav white Nationalist band Вандел to me? For the same reason, I don’t get it.

    I part with a cool tune:

    • Replies: @Plato's Dream
  39. This crap is going to dominate Russia’s diplomacy with Europe for months! It’s one of the reasons why I think destroying the boats would have been preferable.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Z-man
  40. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miggle

    Whatever. I’m thoroughly familiar with Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. I grew up in an Orthodox Presbyterian (PC) background (KJV-only in my school, not even NASB) and had my own set of Matthew Henry’s 5-volume commentary as a child. After college I went on to PTS (b/c of Warfield, Alexander, Hodge). Anyway, I’m prepared to debate you on Mt. 16 and the Koine and Aramaic philology if you want.

    There was only one church (it split East/West in 1054) for 15 centuries before the invention of the printing press and the start of pseudo-Christianity which now has over 50k different denominations. And they all are based on their interpretation of a book which came from the Catholic Church which infallibly determined its canon. I remember sitting in a lecture by J.H. Charlesworth at PTS on NT pseudopigrapha and saying to myself, “How do Protestants know that various NT pseudopigraphal works should not be part of the Bible?? Protestants believe the Bible is infallible and sufficient but not the Catholic Church which infallibly determined its canon.” On so many levels the case for sola scriptura/sola fide/Protestantism breaks down. But I now believe that most people are driven by emotion and content in their vincible ignorance and resistant to anything which runs counter to their comfortable beliefs. Protestantism began as a stupid lie and looting operation which sought to weaken the church founded by Christ (i.e., RCC). It was founded on lust and lies. As historian E. Michael Jones pointed out, it began as a subversive Jewish movement. Protestant arguments for legitimacy and Protestant arguments and calumny against the True Church are like: “Saddam has WMD!” or “Assad gasses his own people!” or “Putin murders dissidents!” And it’s not coincidental that the faithful and consistent purveyors of these lies are Evangelicals.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  41. A123 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Diplomacy with the EU? I’m not sure that is possible right now.

    — Merkel is a lame duck with no ability to deliver.
    — Macron’s Globalist “Green” Tax Hike on fuel is creating mass protests and riots.

    Italy’s Salvini is successfully defying these two Soros sock-puppets.

    Trump is offering up words. However, if you look carefully you will see that there are no U.S. actions beyond cancelling one meeting that had no agenda or expectations. It is the “long game” waiting for France and Germany to select new and hopefully more responsible leaders.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  42. @jimmyark

    There’s a certain incompatibility between Anglo-Zionist and Ukro-Nazi. A degree of paranoiad conspiracy theory is required to use these words for the same opponents.

    • Replies: @Plato's Dream
  43. @Hebraic Hypocrite

    How objective were BBC news casts in 1940?

    • Replies: @anon
  44. @nickels

    I’ll try to explain. The Banderistas (Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists / Ukrainian Rebel Army) were Hitler allies during the war, for 2 reasons. (1) They hoped to use Nazi muscle to settle historic scores with Poles and Russians; (2) They shared a similar ideology (with themselves as the Slavic equivalent of “true Aryans”). Croatian Ustashi were a very similar case, for identical reasons.

  45. anon[565] • Disclaimer says:
    @Plato's Dream

    why, is Ukraine going to take over Russia?

    • Replies: @Plato's Dream
  46. Time for Duma to recognize Novorussia as independent free state is NOW!!!!

  47. Seraphim says:

    Strange that the Uber-Orthodox Mr. Saker couldn’t find any Evangelical passage to confound the ‘Uber-Nazis’.

  48. @Anonymous

    Russia has always been the goal. Syria and Iran are both stepping stones towards the goal of taking on Russia. Not intervening in Syria would have brought the next phase against them closer, sooner.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  49. ” Third, Petro probably hoped that the Russians would simply use a few missiles or blow the Ukrainian three ship armada into smithereens. ”
    If Poro really thought this, then his IQ cannot be higher than fifty.
    If anything is clear about Putin, he will never let himself being provoked.
    I even wonder if the Trump show attacks on Syria were planned in close cooperation with Putin.

    About Saaskiville, that this man still is not behind bars, or has been killed by some furious former subject, unbelievable.
    The man bought, with foreign loans, Israeli military equipment, in order to occupy South Ossetia.
    Seemed a milk run, S and N Ossetia are connected by just one tunnel.
    The plan was that Saaski’s expensive artillery would blow to smitereens the S exit, preventing Russian tanks to come to the rescue.

    But the high IQ Saask, and his even far higher IQ Israeli military advisors, had underestimated the Russians.
    Saaski artillery was so positioned that it had to fire from a valley into the next one, where the tunnel exist was.
    So in some way they needed obsevation of where the missiles struck.
    For this task two, if I remember well, two state of the art Israeli drones had been bought, these drones observed the end of the tunnel, and were expected to beam the images upwards to some satellite, then down to Saask’s artillery men.

    Alas, Russia jammed the drone broadcasts, so the artillery men were blind, and Russian tanks drove into S Ossetia.
    So far so good, one might think, except that Russia did bomb to smithereens, great excuse on a platter, the hangars were Israeli technicians were upgrading USSR Migs.
    How long the Georgian people are going to pay for this folly, the loans, I forgot.

    One more thing, Dien Bhien Phu fell because the N Vietnamese did the impossible, hauling up with just manpower heavy artillery through the jungle to the tops of the mountains around the base, not much more than one runway.
    Had Saask taken the trouble to send some men with good binoculars up to where they could see the end of the tunnel, men with radio equipment, his plan might have succeeded.
    But in that case Israel had not sold drones.

  50. @A123

    The EU ruling class is, in my opinion, in complete confusion.
    As Merkel complained ‘w’re alone’.

    Indeed, in France and in Germany, one sees how dissociation between (large parts of) the people and the German ruling class, those of ‘politically correct’, progresses.
    For the time being nothing happens, that is, old plans and ideas continue to be executed, such as the Marrakech world wide migration folly.

    This is not unusual, in a very good, fundamental, text book about what economics is, the example is used of WWII war production.
    After the end of hostilities with Germany and Japan of course anything that left the war industries all of a sudden became worthless.
    Yet nobody knew how to stop this production immediately, so for many weeks worhless equipment left the factories.

    Marrakech may well become the end of the EU.
    Common people in especially euro countries have had enough, despite jubilant stories on economic growth even the middle classes have more and more problems with paying the bills.

    It adds up.: VAT increases, green taxes, compulsory green measures, such as no gas connections any more to new houses, ever increasing regulations for insulating new houses (total cost of a new house increasing, insulation, heat pump, estimated at some € 30.000), oil heating installations, that cannot even be replaced any more, parking fees, social security more and more disappearing, pension at a later age, in ten years no inflation compensation for pensions, adapting pension systems to EU ideas (lower pensions), progressive sales tax on cars, if they use more fuel

    At the same time, the rich bcoming richer, no fairy tale, our official economic institutions confirm is, CPB and CBS.

    That an immigrant costs us some € 33.000 a year has become well known, that, this is not the case with all immigrants, 70% of the Eritrean migrants still cost us some € 33.000 a year, after havinng been here seven to ten years, also is well known by now.
    Most shocking with these Eritreans is that in a tv report zbou them it became clear that the majority still hardly speaks Dutch, after having been here for at least seven years.

    Macron now complains in Montral that the present French troubles are ‘not acceptable’.
    What he will do about it, I’m curious.
    With me the same impression as with Merkel ‘w’re the leaders, but have no idea how to lead, now that Uncle Sam is busy with his own problems’.

    The possibilty that a strong man, in history it seldom was a woman, will grab power in the EU, not hypothetical any more, I think.
    Benign strong men, alas, are more the exception than the rule, in history.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Prusmc
  51. Dungo jay says: • Website

    Saker must think the ukraine is full of nazis.If it was the rusisans should worry their asses off. The nazis would love to get other chance to.kick.these monkeys back.to siberia.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  52. @jilles dykstra

    Pity that hardly anyone here can read German, I suppose.
    Just read

    https://www.achgut.com/artikel/der_sonntagsfahrer_nur_fliegen_ist_schoener

    The writer explains how the German government has lost contact with the ground since many years.
    Some insurrection now also has begun in the Netherlands.
    If I were a ruling politician, it would worry me very much that in the Netherlands, as in France, police sympathises with the protesters.

    https://www.bfmtv.com/societe/en-direct-gilets-jaunes-plusieurs-lycees-du-sud-de-la-france-actuellement-bloques/

    Headline: Macron witnesses the damage at the Arc de Triomphe.
    Headline is not: Macron announces measures to restore law and order.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  53. @Anonymous

    How do you think “the life of Russia will be snuffed out like [sic] a boa constrictor”? An invasion is obviously not on so it has to be sanctions. Can’t you see that they are strengthening Putin and probably Russia?

  54. CalDre says:
    @peterAUS

    I have the official Nazi-Nazi-UkroUeberNazi-NaziNaziDamnNazi-NaziNaziNaziNazi list:

    Ukronazi commander-in-chie
    Ukronazi provocation
    Ukronazi junta
    Nazi-occupied Ukraine
    Nazi-controlled Ukraine
    neo-Nazis à la Farion
    bona fide Nazis à la Tiagnibok
    Nazi-occupied Ukraine
    Ukronazis are saying
    Ukronazi occupied areas
    Nazi death-squads
    Ukronazis are probably doing
    Ukronazis are probably doing
    Ukronazis are playing their
    the Ukronazis need to do
    back a Ukronazi attack
    the Ukronazi forces
    the Ukronazi junta
    the Ukronazi junta
    Ukronazi disbelievers

  55. @Dungo jay

    The word nazi in discussions like this just sows confusion.
    Ukrainians, I suppose, know something about their history.

    After Lenin’s bolsjewist end of 1917 coup Russian bolsjewists, among them many jews, fought the Russian whites, those against communism, among these whites many Ukrainians.
    The bolsjewists won, no independent Ukraine.
    How many more or less wealthy Ukrianians then fled, no idea.

    In the thirties the collectivisation, the kulaks, rich farmers, in fact anyone owning land, were driven off their land.
    How many Ukrainians died at the time, two or three million is often mentioned.
    Stalin wanted their grain as payment for his heavy industries, future tank production, my idea.

    Ukrainian emigrés, as the word for refugee then was, the difference being having some money, is my undrstanding, tried to collaborate with Röhm, Hitler’s rival, in order to ceate an independent, from the USSR, Ukraine.
    Hitler held the night of the long knives.
    At the time, jews still were prominent among USSR leaders.

    Just prior to the August 1939 Molotov Von Ribbentrop agreement over Poland Stalin purged the communist party from jews, Litvinov was dropped overnight.

    After the German armies in 1941 had occupied, or liberated parts of Russia, different points of view are possible, many Ukrainians saw their chance: against the USSR, against the jews.
    Ukrainians are mentioned often as concentration camp guards, as are Lithuanians.

    My understanding is that in the present Ukraine neither Russians nor jews are popular.

    This may be different for E Ukraine, where the Ukraine heavy industry is, main customer: Russia.
    For example, locomotives for the Russian railroads just seem to be built in E Ukraine, not any locomotive can drive in winter through Siberia to the Pacific.

    One more Ukrainian problem, the antagonism between the rich ruling class, many of them former USSR managers of state factories, that they bought at very low prices, or as front men for western capitalists, and the generally poor Ukrainian population, many of whom long back to the good old communist days: nobody really rich, nobody really poor.
    EU promises of properity soon, wonder if many in the Ukraine still have high hopes.

  56. This reads like an attempt to sidestep the fact that Putin fell into a trap, shooting himself in the foot (yet again!) on the eve of the G20. Timoshenko becoming president would be very bad news for Putin.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  57. @Anonymous

    Surely you miss the real problem which is what you should logically expect of an Abrahamic God who communicates when He wishes with human beings, loves all his human creatures equally and cares how his human creatures behave and what they believe. But clearly no such deity exists because – quite apart from “the problem of evil” which means nasty things are allowed to happen to good people – He failed to tell successive heretics’ acolytes after the first recipients of his wisdom (via the genocidal psychopath Moses) which version of theology and associated morality was correct, and he totally failed to communicate the Christian or other Abrahamic truth to Hindus, Buddhists and Animists. Ergo, there is no Abrahamic deity.

    Clever men like Thomas More knew very well that belief in an after life of Heaven and Hell was essential to maintaining Christian piety. It worked for a long time. After all the cruelties of earthly life that God failed to prevent could be compensated for by an eternity of bliss. But now that we know that there is no ego to survive the death of the brain that last hope for selling us a caring Creator God has gone, and the Messiah with it.

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @Bill
  58. El Dato says:

    Jumping the shark:

    Ukraine demands that Germany deploy its Kriegsmarine in the Azov sea and “shut international ports for Russian vessels based in Crimea”

    https://www.rt.com/news/445378-germany-ukraine-war-russia/

    Call Tirpitz (the guy, not the ship)

  59. El Dato says:
    @Michael Kenny

    This reads like an attempt to sidestep the fact that Putin fell into a trap

    According to Michael Kenny, Putin falls into “traps” every two months or so.

    The Empire must be some good trapper, indeed. Practically Davy Crockett.

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Anonymous
  60. A few interesting observations, but otherwise, totally over-blown

  61. Robjil says:
    @Hebraic Hypocrite

    Neonazi label is real. Young men with lite torches often march into towns in the US terror puppet state of Ukraine, they do so to intimidate any dissent from the regime. Hitler- like salutes are commonly used by people in power of this regime. There a lot pictures of that. When the US Banderist terror thugs attacked protesters in Odessa on May 2 2014, they scrawled on walls the words – Galicien SS. Lviv has the only memorial to the SS in the world. It is greatly honored there. Nazi flags, swastikas and National Socialist themes are common in US Bandera Ukraine.

    At the UN, The US and Ukraine have been voting for the past four years to vote down a denunciation of Nazism. The US and Ukraine were the only ones to do so. Other years Canada joined it. Since Trudeau it stopped doing. Perhaps, Monika and Albert Schaefer, two Canadians, were arrested in Germany in 2018 for questioning the exact set details of the Orthodox mandatory viewpoint on the big H. It would not look good if Canada voted not to denounce Nazism at the UN. So this is perhaps the reason Canada “suddenly” changed its “mind” at the UN. The neonazism created in US bandera Ukraine is similar to isis and al-qaeda. They all are very irrational, destructive and not for the people. They all march for interests for US/west/Israel interests.

    Banderism is the newest rage in US/Israel control games. A real National
    Socialism would develop a money system outside Rothschild banking and it is not happening in US bandera Ukraine. The neonazi is real to National Socialism as isis and al-qaeda is to Islam. They are all charades to control nations for US/Israel interests and nothing more than that.

  62. Prusmc says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Saker indicates that the Neocons are going to remove Trump and replace him with a more virile and competent Neocon. Saker does not believe Pense is that person. Who is this power house Neocon waiting in the wings? Joe Hairplugs, Bernie, John Kerry, Corey Booker, Beto, Sherrod Brown, Chuck Schumer, Adam Sciff, Kamala Harris, the two time loser hag, Alexandia Ocasio-Cortes (too young) Michele O or Mitt Romney? Tell who and the odds. My prediction is Trump will nor finish his term or if he does he will not seek reelection.

  63. @anon

    First of all, you may laugh but the Banderovites do have claims to Russian regions such as Kuban and Belgorod.

    Secondly, regardless of that, at a time of war (or build-up to war) all media revert to propaganda, and expecting otherwise would be naive.

    • Replies: @hunor
    , @Anonymous
  64. Putin continues to proceed wisely here, but in retrospect he should have allowed the rebels to take Mariupol when they had the chance a few years ago. This will continue to be a sharp stick.

  65. El Dato says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Und zum Schluss noch ein echtes Highlight: Die EU-Kommission und die nationalen Regierungen haben einen abgestimmten Aktionsplan erarbeitet, um Europa zur „weltweit führenden Region“ von künstlicher Intelligenz aufsteigen zu lassen – er soll in den kommenden Tagen vorgestellt werden.

    Für die Deutschen ist das absolut kein Problem, Deutschland wird längst von künstlicher Intelligenz regiert. Reste natürlicher Intelligenz gibt’s nur noch beim Fußvolk.

    LOL.

    Wasn’t Euro-sourced AI always a bit awkward and incompatible to anything else in Cyberpunk novels?

    Es it aufgetischt:

    https://www.rt.com/news/445356-putin-merkel-caviar-g20-ukraine/

    Regarding France, “not bad, some pretty good stuff you got there”. Les pavés are flying, a policeman is getting roughed up:

    https://www.rt.com/news/445348-paris-protest-police-crackdown/

    Photographers looking for a good shot in the video with the kneeling women with bloodied face being photographed from all angles while basically not much happens.

    Don’t know how may protesters are violence mongers, malcontent yoof, antifa and similar.

    Let’s see about next Saturday.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  66. Robjil says:
    @Anonymous

    The Catholic church was anti-war for many decades of the 20th century. Priests and Nuns were often involved in anti-Vietnam war protests. The church was against US coups in Latin America. Suddenly within the last thirty years, a child abuse theme has developed to cover the entire church with a muffle to be quiet. Why so? Perhaps, the middle east wars “must” go on without any interruptions. Planted memories are easy to install by psychiatrists. Alien abductions scenarios has been successfully implanted in many patients. Child abuse memories can be implanted too. No real evidence or witnesses needed for long ago events. It seems to be a plan in the last thirty years to keep the Catholic Church very “quiet”.

    https://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/alien-abduction-reincarnation-memory-errors/

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/how-to-instill-false-memories/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  67. It is painful for me to watch what is happening in the Ukraine. The Ukrainians and Russians I have had the experience to know have by and large have been great people to get to know.

    I think the revolution was a tragic turn of events after an election that was reported to have been fair and above board with few irregularities. We have to be honest about the slow pace that democratic government travels. And there are questions whether it is the best form of government for every group of people. We over-hype it as a cure all. We point fingers westward and boast about its benefits. We not only ignore its faults, we gloss over our collective democratic history’s very ugly, brutal and contradictory path to today. One of the many tough choices is living with the opposition winning an election and making choices you find abhorrent practically and morally.

    Democratic governance for nearly all of the west came at a very steep price, more for some than others. I think what the CIA, State Dept, our aide providers, thinks funded with government monies should be tasked to do when instructing about democratic development is teach democracies dangers, and note the same by example — it will sober any would be revolutionary. I can enjoy Pepsi and Coca Cola and the material benefits of the US, but it would be a mistake to equate those with what it means to b a democratic republic.

    Better still for all young democracies or would be democracies is that history of democratic government be fully researched and pay particular attention to its ills and what democratic advocates – don’t say.

    I say the above that embracing both my country’s democracy and former practice of capitalism.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  68. Ukraine is draining resources from the EU and US. The idea of using minimal force to contain Ukraine seems like a good one. Modern war depends on fuel so finding the fuel supply lines and targeting them with stealth drones seems reasonable, cheap and deniable. Is Russia still sending gas to and through Ukraine? Why?

    I don’t understand the demographics or population distribution here. How many Nazis are there? Do they have support among the population? Who is fighting who and for what reason? What are they fighting over? What does either side hope to gain? What does winning look like for Ukraine? For Russia?

    I still think someone in Russia should put together a Russian Christmas special and send it to the West as a Christmas gift. If you can’t get a major broadcaster, put it on RT and/or YouTube. Call it Holidays in Moscow or Moscow Holiday Special.

    It would be hard to bomb little Russian boys and girls singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  69. @jilles dykstra

    Great comment as always, but it should be pointed out that Stalin’s actions against Jews in The Party had been going on for a few years prior to the Non-Aggression Pact, indeed were basically wrapped up by that point.

  70. Z-man says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The tug boat looked pretty modern & durable (Probably a gift from the West). The Russians should keep them!

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  71. Z-man says:

    That picture of the Georgian with Poroshenko; I call the Georgian affectionately ‘Sack-of-shit-villi’ and he really is the personification of ‘Idiot-savant’. (Grin)

  72. Porky is just another Zionist puppet and at some point his Zionist masters will throw his ass out and put in another Zionist puppet as the Zionists have plenty of U.S. gov tax money to piss off in the Ukraine and maybe Nuland will be back to hand out cookies amid the slaughter house !

    The Ukraine is just another Zionist controlled country just like the U.S. and Britain and all of Europe and eventually the Zionists will get their WWIII and get the world blown to hell as this is what the Zionist end game is, read The Controversy of Zion by Douglas Reed and The Committee of 300 by Dr. John Coleman and The Protocols of Zion.

  73. Saker indeed goes overboard with his whole “Ukro-Nazi” meme, although certainly there is some truth to it. Ultimately these guys are just hired muscle and diversions from the real action, much like the Islamic lunatics the CIA bankrolls. When they’ve outlived their usefulness they’ll be duly purged.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  74. ” I don’t understand the demographics or population distribution here. How many Nazis are there? Do they have support among the population? ”
    Any proposal how to count them ?

  75. @EliteCommInc.

    It is asserted that the CIA spent $ 5 billion in Ukraine.
    If so, you see what money can accomplish;

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  76. @El Dato

    The EU is in deep trouble.
    The German ruling class has lost any connection with ordinary Germans, in France it is the same with the French ruling class.
    Macron is considering declaring martial law, the problem is that police and army sympathise with the protesters, this also happens in the Netherlands.
    Since ignoring the anti EU referenda in 2005 the ruling class has ignored common people, they’ve had enough.
    I my opinion the problem theoretically could be solved by abolishing the EU, back to the EEC, an EEC without euro, alas just the EU bureaucracy could execute this change without much damage.
    But of course, this bureaucracy is not going to make itself unemployed.
    And so w’re heading, I fear, to a crash which, in comparison with the 1929 Wall Street crash, will be gigantic, as Varoufakis predicted already a few years ago.

  77. @Robjil

    The battle cry neonazi is real.
    What those who bring the Hitler salute think or want, I really have no idea.
    What those who blame others of being neonazis, blame them for, I also have no idea.
    Maybe the biggest problem these days, hardly anyone ever is explaining what he or she tries to say.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Wally
  78. @Si1ver1ock

    There is practically no politics in rural areas neither in Ukraine nor Russia, only in large cities.
    Russians could take out Kiev in one day and there would not be Ukraine anymore.
    But Russia so far does not want to take responsibility for economic well being of all Ukraine.

  79. Avery says:

    What is overlooked in this situation is that non-Slavs have – again – successfully brainwashed one section of Slavs to kill large numbers of their fellow Slavs.
    Anglo-Saxon /Anglo-American/Neocon wet dream.

    People “advising” Putin to do this or that in Ukraine forget that Russian soldiers will be killing large numbers of their fellow Slavs if they were to invade Ukraine in force.

  80. @Anonymous

    Hey Anonymous # 346!

    Greetings from Scranton, Pa, a down & out town in which the Roman Catholic Church Diocese is under siege by Ex-Attorney General Kathleen Kane’s initial action and A.G. Josh Shapiro’s aggressive followup (Grand Jury) charges of sexual abuse, including those that happened 4 decades ago, subsequent lawsuits, & foolish Diocesan internal-transfer of harmful (fallen) priests.

    I appreciate your comment very much and I wholeheartedly agree that powerful & elite political “Enemies” of the American Roman Catholic Church are “demonic” and regrettably are also ensconced within the > 2,000 year old institution.

    At present, I know of local dedicated Catholic priests, worthy of their “Calling,” and, for me, they seem cautiously wary about their public stigma when they appear around town. Traditional Catholic “Moral authority” has taken a (WMD) strike from which “collateral damage” multiplies.

    As you might be aware, # 346, when the US military in Iraq allowed President Saddam Hussein’s barbaric lynching to proceed without trial, Pope Benedict hesitated to move rapidly and call for humane international criminal-justice to occur. He apparently figured there was “no time” to effectively do so & make a difference.

    In contrast, fyr, below is excerpt from an enlightening (June 2007) article from Jamestown Foundation; Global Research & Analysis, by Stephen Blank. The author focused upon Russian religious authorities, including Council of Muftis, public objection to Saddam Hussein’s execution.

    “Russia’s religious authorities also felt compelled to speak out. Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, deputy head of the External Relations Directorate of the Moscow Patriarchate, worried that other dictators, seeking to protect themselves against such a fate, might not move faster to go nuclear. Archpriest Oleg Stenyayev, head of the Rehabilitation Center for victims of nontraditional reasons, said that it was merely an act of intimidation to help the Americans control the region. He also opined that on many counts Saddam’s guilt was not proven, conveniently forgetting that Saddam’s guilt for at least one massacre was proven (Itar-Tass, December 31). The Russian Council of Muftis called the execution “a transition to savage medieval barbarity even if it’s called democracy” as well as a blow to Islam (RIA-Novosti, December 30). The fact that the execution occurred on the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha is also a desecration of God’s testament that forbids human sacrifice.”

    Thanks, # 346!

    Post scriptum: Writing as member of St. Joseph’s Melkite Greek Catholic Church, I look back (with awe) to Pope Benedict’s blessing of former-CIA Director, Leon Panetta, and thanking him for “keeping us safe” from radicalized enemy attack. Now, who shall keep the America’s Catholic Church communities safe from it’s both internal and external “Enemies” who have down sized The Christ’s call to peace and goodwill to all men, neither Jew nor gentile, “in Christ.”

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  81. @Avery

    True to some extent, but the Ukrainian oligarchs ((including Porky) are disproportionately Jewish (indeed some openly hold Israeli passports), and a number of other foreigners (Georgians, etc.) hold prominent positions in the government. So it is not really accurate to portray this as fratricidal. They’re sending poor, desperate Slavic conscripts against their brethren, but what other choice do these men (the soldiers) have right now?

    Ultimately the Russians could take Kiev in a few weeks if they wanted to, but apart from not wanting to be the caretaker of a basket case, Putin and Russia have no interest in giving the “West” an excuse to attack them (financially or otherwise). Porky IS dumb enough to launch an attack, but it’s not up to him and he’s simply a pawn to justify more sanctions, etc. against Russia.

  82. hunor says:
    @Plato's Dream

    First of all, the Mexicans do have claims for Texas , New Mexico , Arizona , California.
    Why don’t we address the real issues that matters.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Prusmc
  83. bluedog says:
    @El Dato

    LOL well after all he is a bot or a troll….

  84. Robjil says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Neonazi (TM) is like isis (TM) and al-qaeda (TM). They are US/west/Israel proxy soldiers. Neonazi has nothing do with German National Socialism. They are not trying to be independent of the Rothschild banking system like the real German National Socialists did. What really got the ball to after German National Socialists was their creation of an alternative money system that worked. Neonazis (TM) are terror proxy soldiers for US/Israel interests and nothing more than that. US ukraine is a US terror puppet state if one does not like the term neonazi (TM).

  85. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:

    Don’t trust the propagandist imposters who hide the hand of the criminal Putin, a JEWISH MAFIA STOOGE and the enemy of Muslims like Trump.

    Putin, Trump and MBS are ALL PART OF THE CRIMINAL JEWISH MAFIA where Assad should force Putin out of Syria. Putin like other racist Russian ‘leaders’ is in bed with Israel and Jewish mafia.
    Putin was in bed with the axis of evil including George Bush, and Tony Blair against Muslims. He is a zionist stooge like Trump and MBS.

    • Agree: Moi
    • Replies: @Moi
  86. Agent76 says:

    May 15, 2017 Ukraine: US-Installed Fascist Rule in Europe’s Heartland. Will Donetsk Rejoin Russia?

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-us-installed-fascist-rule-in-europes-heartland-will-donetsk-rejoin-russia/5590150

    Russell Bentley is a former US marine, that now fights for the Donbass, Eastern Ukraine, against the US-funded Ukrainian army.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  87. @Z-man

    There could be American spying devices inside! I still think it was best to destroy them.

  88. Wally says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra

    “The battle cry neonazi is real.”

    So what?
    The ‘Nazis’ did not do what is alleged, therefore the entire argument is garbage in, garbage out.
    If’ the Nazis’ did what is ridiculously claimed, then Israel would not be funding & arming them in Ukraine.
    Israel has then essentially admitted that the ‘holocaust’ is nothing more than a scam, which anyone who thinks rationally has already realized.

  89. peterAUS says:
    @Agent76

    OMG.
    Can’t you guys find better (propaganda) material?
    It was made two years ago……

    The guy is definitely “former”. Look at him. Look at his clothes, footwear.
    He is saying “powerful artillery” but can’t make, standing next to the impact point, was it 82 of 120 mm MORTAR. I’d say, from here, it was 120 mm mortar.

    That weapon is organic to infantry battalions, even companies. To fire that …oh my…no need to ask anyone above battalion command post. Range is 6 Km, tops, easy to triangulate (if one has proper military……………………….) and counter.

    Stopped watching at 1.27.

    Guys…guys…there IS plenty of good material from Donbass side; showing this is…..simply…. bizarre.
    Or not.

    • Replies: @Agent76
  90. Wally says:
    @hunor

    What “claims” are those?

    Inconvenient facts:

    - The few “Mexicans”, actually Spaniards, that were there when the US won the war were offered US citizenship.

    - “Mexicans” (Meso-Americans) are descendants of the Aztecs, Mayans and Zapotecs (among others), who never set foot north of the Rio Grande.

    - Much of the SW, which was claimed by the Mexican government was controlled by either the Comanche or the Apache.

    - Mexico lost Texas because Santa Anna made himself a dictator and caused revolts all around Mexico.

    - The Mexican-American war (that ‘stole’ Mexico) was a fight between two imperial, European-derived powers.

    - The Mexican-American War was provoked by Mexico, which refused to recognize the independence wishes of those in the region.
    Not only did it provoke the war generally, it fired the first shots, killing 11 of 70 American in a surprise attack by 2000 Mexican soldiers.

  91. Herald says:
    @peterAUS

    You’re losing it Peter. The very substance of the article is about the unpredictability and stupidity of Porky and the distinct possibility that he could start something that could get totally out control. We don’t need reams of copy and paste to confirm the Saker’s concern, as this point is what the article is about.

    • Replies: @FB
  92. peterAUS says:

    You’re losing it Peter.

    Hehe….
    Well, at least you put it civil. The “Team” preferred language when ..ahm….”discsussing” with those disagreeing is much more, say…..”Russian” in nature.
    I’d say Saker is losing it, actually.

    The very substance of the article is about the unpredictability and stupidity of Porky and the distinct possibility that he could start something that could get totally out control.

    For you.
    I’d say the very substance of the article is incessant hammering of that “Nazi” word and attitude.

    We don’t need reams of copy and paste to confirm the Saker’s concern, as this point is what the article is about.

    I’d say:we don’t need “Nazi” this, “Nazi” that when talking about Ukraine.

    And, besides, the very analysis is wrong. Poroshenko has not gone “Full Saakashvili”. He’ll reach that level when we see the first armor rolling into Donbass/whatever.

    As for “getting out of control”….hehe…..don’t think so. Or at least I see more chance of “getting out of control” in Syria.

    “Donbass/whatever” thing is very well controlled. Just not in the way the “Team” would like us believe.

  93. @Wally

    Yes. It’s worth noting that the original American settlers in Mexico were essentially mercenaries invited by the Mexican government to fight the Indian tribes who de facto controlled the formal territory.

  94. @Wally

    Just this caveat:

    Mexico invited US citizens to live in Texas as a means of hold the territory for Mexico and control the native american population. And while they demanded that all take and oath of loyalty to Mexico — they carelessly avoided immigration policies and in effect, the foreigners undermined the Mexican government. A huge sticking point, Mexican outlawed slavery, but allowed their illegal and legal immigrants to maintain slave ownership and labor.

    And had Gen. Sana Anna not taken a nap in what was essentially a swampy culdesac history would most likely be very different.

    Lesson: no point having immigration laws if you don’t enforce them.

  95. @jilles dykstra

    Laugh. I need to figure out how to a get a cut of all this money being tossed about.

  96. Moi says:
    @anonymous

    Putin high-fiving MbS at the G20 cabal is all we need to know.

  97. Prusmc says:
    @hunor

    What about Colorado and Nevada? Mexico does not want them back any more than the USSA wants the Philippines back. Right now Mexico has it as good as it gets. USSA manufacturing jobs, an uncloseable escape valve for excess labor that makes remittances the highest source of revenue now that peak oil has struck PENMEX. To say nothing of 40 million people living in USSA with loyalty to Mexico and political dominance in a significant part of USSA. Soon, the question will not be : how does it affect Israel? Rather : how does it affect Mexico?

  98. hunor says:
    @Wally

    I agree one hundred percent regarding a falls Mexican claim for the southern states
    of the USA. But my point is, you dumb gringos should worry about your crap ,
    and don’t bother about thinks you are absolutely clueless about, in the other side of the globe.

  99. Trump is the worst overcooked noodle to sit in the White House

    Trump is a 72-year-old man who spent his pampered life as a front man for the New York mob’s real estate holdings. Did ANYONE seriously believe he was going to be able to run the largest military and financial empire in world history?

    I’m not saying he’s stupid, far from it, but let’s face it, his job is to make a few television appearances each week and nothing more.

  100. Its hard to take you seriously when you refer to Ukrainians as “Nazis” National Socialism died in 1945 and has zero relevance in modern political discourse.

  101. Anonymous[330] • Disclaimer says:
    @Plato's Dream

    the Banderovites do have claims to Russian regions

    Lol! Good luck.

    at a time of war (or build-up to war) all media revert to propaganda

    Very, very true.

    Then again, what if most people don’t buy it anymore?

    Implosion?

  102. Anonymous[330] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    The “Nazis” in Ukraine are (((led by the nose))) in the same way “Muslim” ISIS fighters are (((pushed))) to kill their own in the ME.

    Goyim-on-goyim slaughter is how this game is played.

  103. Agent76 says:
    @peterAUS

    NATO has wanted Russia sine 1949. You need to find better reading material and sorces yourself.

  104. @Robjil

    I’m surprised you didn’t blame Jews this time. As to which I note that a rabbi friend who, like me, is a friendly acquaintance of the elderly Cardinal being prosecuted in Australia for long ago alleged events of a sexual nature volunteered to me “I think he is innocent”. (I think it is a witch hunt in the same way that the old witch trials were set up before juries who had known all their lives that, of course, witches existed and did all the impossible things that were testified to).

    Your diagnosis of the causes of lost potency for the Church’s teaching is only flavoured with a small truth. Mostly the problem is an educated laity – much brighter and better educated often than any priests or monks, often at Jesuit schools (I know lots of “Catholic atheists” – cp. Jewish atheists or Anglican atheists – who went to Jesuit schools), modern science being caught up with so slowly by the Church and the Church’s being pushed back into a tiny corner where it infuriates women in particular as it obsessed about nothing but abortion, contraception, IVF, embryos, gays and euthanasia. In differing degrees practical arguments can be mounted on all those issues but they are all irritating as actually put because ultimately they are just faith based depending on an authority who claims to have a special line to a deity.

    • Replies: @Bill
  105. Anonymous[330] • Disclaimer says:
    @Avery

    What is overlooked in this situation is that non-Slavs have – again – successfully brainwashed one section of Slavs to kill large numbers of their fellow Slavs.

    True, if you’re talking about (some) Poles and (even less) Ukrainians. This is not new or unusual.

    Russian establishment knows this. That’s why they’re delaying the carnage.

  106. Art says:

    Oh’ — Porky not Porky???

    Don’t be a sucker. Choosing between stinky turds is for fools. A pox on all of them.

    Why not Think Peace and Do No Harm!

    Art

    p.s. Screw Porky, MBS, and Putin!

  107. @ChuckOrloski

    My recollection (unchecked online) is that Saddam Hussein was tried by the locals, probably no more or less fairly than half of those on death row in the United States. But the US can’t displace its responsibility and it would, at least, have been a worthwhile gesture of respect for international order if he had been tried before an international tribunal. On his release in, say 20 years, a peaceful democratic (don’t laugh) Iraq might still have tried him for purely domestic crimes.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  108. Agent76 says:

    Dec 2, 2018 Ukraine Cites Massive Buildup Of Russian Forces Along Border As Reason for Martial Law

    Russia is building up its land forces and weapons along the border, Ukraine’s president said Saturday as German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned Russia not to block Ukrainian ports in the Sea of Azov.

  109. Art says:

    This is serious – where is our president?

    Sorry but Trump has hamster balls – he is not fighting the US Jew Security State. That is the monster of the planet – PERIOD.

    Hmm – wouldn’t Ford, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama all be trying to tamp this down – Not Trump – he cannot even sit down and talk to Putin. Our great “leader of the free world” is fearful of being seen with Putin. Once again its all about the Jew agenda.

    Think Peace — Art

  110. @Wizard of Oz

    Doubtless Saddam got a fairer trial than many poor defendants do in the US. But it surely can’t be characterized as anything but a US-run kangaroo court.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  111. peterAUS says:

    A quote from some article a handful people here could find….informative:

    Ukraine’s breakaway territory is the size of New York State, with about four million inhabitants facing impossible choices. Held hostage by opportunistic separatist authorities, they are simultaneously cast as outlaws by the Ukrainian government — as separatist sympathizers and disloyal citizens, whose sin was having been taken hostage. Even when they leave, as I did, accusations of treason and collaboration follow them.

    As a result, these people have trouble receiving pensions, traveling to “mainland” Ukraine and back, obtaining passports, working or voting. Locked in a ghettoized quasi-state, they are torn between both sides’ unclear and repressive rules.
    One of my relatives runs a small business in Donetsk but finds it difficult. Ukraine’s government has imposed an economic blockade on local businesses that are accountable only to the Ministry of Finance of the breakaway republic. The chairman of this ministry is known not by his given name, but by a nom de guerre — Tashkent.

    Every two months, my grandmother must travel to government-controlled territory to claim her pension. The trip is not fun: You spend a whole day waiting in maddeningly slow lines at multiple checkpoints. People swarm on a narrow road that bisects a minefield. Because of the lack of facilities, they use roadside bushes as lavatories and occasionally become land-mine casualties. You can avoid this by traveling with a smuggler, who bribes the checkpoint bureaucrats to skip the lines. But that costs a whole month’s pension. You get to choose.

    A friend of mine had a grandmother who wasn’t receiving her pension because she was too old for the grueling trip. She died recently. The death certificate issued by separatist authorities has no legal force, and there is no mechanism to issue a Ukrainian one for people who lived in uncontrolled territory. When my friend sought help in court, the judge demanded evidence — three witnesses to grandma’s death, or a video of the funeral. So goes the surrealism of life in this war.

    Soon enough, the final question comes: So, whom do local people support — the separatists or the government? My answer disappoints everyone: Most support neither. It’s tempting to root for good guys against bad guys in a conflict on TV, especially if Russia is involved. But when you find soldiers digging trenches in your backyard, you suddenly don’t care if they are good or bad soldiers. You just want them out.

    Our real-life choices are seldom political. People choose to stay in the war zone for many reasons — work, property, old age, disability, sentimental attachment to home. The lack of support from the state and the stigma attached elsewhere to being a displaced person also make it sensible to stay put.
    Those who remain hope that somehow something will change. But hope is gradually yielding to despair and fatalism. The conflict is at a geopolitical deadlock in which everyone seems more satisfied with the status quo than with any proposed solution. Everyone except the people who must pay the price.

    Recently, a thoughtful interlocutor who pursued a conversation like this concluded by telling me: “Frankly speaking, people in the U.S. are tired of hearing about this chronic conflict in Ukraine poisoned by corruption and the lack of political will to move anywhere.”
    All I could say was, “If you are tired, imagine how tired we are.”

  112. anon[452] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    ‘The Jews say that they do it for the Muslims’ sake.
    Jews often use Muslims for an alibi: instead of saying “we do not want to see a Christmas tree” or “we don’t want to hear church bells”, they say: it is offensive for Muslims. “

    It is offensive for Muslims to be locked up in Gaza, but Jews do not mind causing that ..

    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/the-messiah-in-england/

    New York Times says it is the Evangelical Christians who are instrumental in moving the embassy to Jerusalem. Jews love to parade the donkey and load their filth on its back .

    -

    Muslims buy the ruse

    Jews cause wars that force Muslim to enter Europe .

    Then European Jews talk of embracing the immigrants
    while other Jews encourage right wings Christians to oppose , to fight, to fire bomb Muslims in Germany in Switzerland and Hungary.

    These 2 different Jews criticize each other about it . But they go home together , they go to same Synagogue, they go to same Israeli centric Jews organization and they support each and every demands and needs of Israel .

    But they succeed in keeping the hatred alive and succeed in creating the hatred between Muslim and Christian

  113. @peterAUS

    So you agree with me that Novorussia should be taken over by Russia.
    It is high noon to do it! But it looks that Putin is drzhgrosh (cheapskate) he does not want to spend any money.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  114. Miggle says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Well, Wonderful Wizard, if I have time I might further reply to that Papistical nutcase, Anonymous[346], since he has launched an all-out war not just on the American Evangelicals, who are not real Evangelicals anyway, but on Protestantism as such, blaming “the Jews” for it. But…

    I wasn’t off to see the Wizard, but if he’s here…

    What about the new false god that all Americans worship today? (Leaving aside the Antipodeans and ScumMuck.)

    All Americans are fanatical worshippers of that god, belief in whom is a trick played by the plutocrats to give all power to themselves.

    Barack Obama, then Pope of that god (whose name is Democracy), destroyed Libya, a peaceful, secular country whose oil wealth had made all its people prosperous.

    Why? Why did that fiend Obama destroy, totally destroy a prosperous, peaceful country?

    Because its ruler didn’t worship the American god, and so didn’t worship America. That meant the American oligarchs had no power there, and that in turn meant the country had to be totally destroyed.

    So that Pope of Washington, the diabolical fiend Obama, himself worshipped by NATO, sent his NATO in to destroy the country.

    Ergo, there is no American deity? Would you say that?

    And look at all the cruelties of earthly life, and the destruction of so much earthly life, perpetrated by that god, beginning to look very like his relentless determination to destroy all earthly life.

    Surely you miss the real problem, that the 16th Century with its Abrahamic god was more civilized than the modern world, which is now in great danger of being self-destroyed by its barbarity, all because of its god.

  115. @Miggle

    I’ll grant that sentient life on earth had better prospects in the 16th century when the Abrahamic gods handed round much less dangerous toys than today and to far fewer people.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  116. CalDre says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Ukrainians, I suppose, know something about their history.

    Exactly, and in large part, Russians don’t know Ukrainian history. They have the Russian “Ruler of the Slavs” perspective which is very skewered.

    Ukrainians were oppressed by various empires for centuries, including Mongols, Poles (not just ethnic Poles but Jews) and Russians (whom many Ukrainians accuse of having submitted to Mongols and intermixed with them – this is why Ukrainian supremacists view Russians as inferior and no longer of the same blood). During the anarchy of WW II, some radicalized Ukrainians used the opportunity to exact revenge for historical crimes, and for this many Russians, include Saker, villify them as “Nazis”. Ukrainians cooperated with Nazis because Nazis promised them independence after the war; and they had had more than enough of Communism and Jewish rule.

    At the end of the day though Nazis sent Bandera to a concentration camp. Most probably when Bandera realized that the promise of an independent Ukraine wasn’t being implemented in practice. Ukrainians revere him for seeking independence, and, as is done with many historical figures, ignores his more ominous deeds. Like many Russians ignore the more ominous deeds of Lenin and Stalin.

    Russians, on the other hand, like Saker, view Bandera and Benerites as “Nazi”. They see only the “persecution of Russians and Jews”. They do not think Ukraine has a right to independence, hence any fight for it is inherently unjust and criminal. Any Ukrainian seeking independence from Russia is now morphed into a “Nazi” costume. Or Ukronazi, I suppose a play on the more popular ZioNazi.

    I have Russian friends in Odessa. None of them thinks Kiev is Nazi. And they freely speak Russian with each other. What kind of anti-Russian UkroNazi State is this?

    I’ve tried to explain to the Russian nationalists that Banderites are not so different from them – they just lionize Bandera for fighting for independence and kicking out invaders, rather than for his excesses, whereas Russians focus only on the excesses and in any case consider the Ukrainian drive for independence to be treason.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @EugeneGur
  117. CalDre says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    No, Putin knows this is a very good way to get Europe to stop buying Russian gas and start buying US or ME gas, even if it costs them more, and to gravely increase the hostility of remaining Ukraine to Russia (Putin being a sane man no doubt hopes ASAP to restore honorable relations with Ukraine).

    Strategic thinking: long-term relations with the rest of Europe and Ukraine, respectively, are vastly more important than formalizing the current Russia-Novorussia relationship.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  118. These Abrahamic gods are responsible for the overpopulation of this world.
    They, in any case Jahweh, regulated sex in such a way that women got the largest possible number of children, on top of that was the urge to ‘multiply’.
    The heathen gods had no problem with regulating population size, alternative sex such as sodomy etc was no problem, abortion was no problem, even infanticide was no problem.
    Child sacrifice was usual in ancient Carthage, why, we do not know.
    Historians describe it as barbaric, what, of course, it was, according to present day views.
    But if there was some understandable reason, we do not know.
    It struck me how, in a novel situated in mid 19th century France, Sand, La Mare au Diable, the head of the extended family, at the time three generations lived at one farm, was worried when his daughter (in law) again was pregnant ‘would there be enough food when this child had grown up ?’.

  119. @peterAUS

    Did anyone expect Putin to give away the most important Russian port, Sebastopol ?
    When NATO, EU, Pentagon, Deep State, sons (in law) of capitalists as Biden (oil and gas in E Ukraine), and CIA, began the adventure of bringing Ukraine into the western sphere of influence, they had the illusion of being in a win win situation.
    Great if Putin gave away the Crimea with Sebastopol, great if he did not: casus belli.
    Reason never ruled the world, the 20 mile or so bridge from Russia proper to the Crimea now separates the essential Ukrainian grain harbors from the Black Sea, thus from the Mediterranean.
    How it is now, I do not know, but in the good old days when Russia’s (tsarist) existence depended on grain export, two days of blocking the Straits was enough for letting the ruble fall, Russia no longer able to pay interest and amortisation on foreign loans.
    Not impossible that Ukraine now is in a similar situation.
    And of course, the above mentioned bunch of criminals and fools never imagined that hawk Hillary would not be elected.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  120. @Miggle

    Maggie
    You are so confused that is unbelievable. All Protestantism started by agent provocateur Luther,
    who did not wanted to contribute a cent to building the St Peter basilica,
    That is why you have to pay $26 now to visit it and see it. (Catholics can see it for free.)

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @Miggle
  121. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Saddam a fair trial.
    Anyone of course foresaw that he would be killed, to silence him.
    His memoirs if written freedom would have made him richer than Bill Gates.

    On top of all that, any trial should be in conformity with the culture of the society n which the asserted crimes took place.
    Saddam was a dictator in a tribal society, where democracy cannot function.
    It cannot be denied that he brought prosperity, safety, medical care, sewers, clean water etc, for any Iraqi who accepted his absolute power.

    Insurrections in such societies are put down mercilessly, forgot the name of the town where the Syrian Muslim brotherhood has converted a whole suburb into some kind of citadel.
    Suppose in the hope that Assad sr would begin bloody house to house fights.

    Assad did no such thing, his heavy artillery literally bombarded the complete suburb to smithereens, anyone killed, also the civilians.
    Those who visited the place later were hardly able to find any trace of the former suburb.
    Was, in this case, Assad a criminal ?
    Not in my opinion, allowing the insurrection to continue would have resulted in what large parts of Syria are now: depopulated ruins, and in EU member states on the brink of civil war.

    Macron does not know what to do, he bought himself some time by ordering his prime minster to talk with the leaders of the yellow coat movement; leaders that do not exist.

    Interesting is that this situation, insurrection without leaders, had, maybe has, a name in international law, ‘levée en masse’, the word originates from the French German 1870 war, when Prussia had annihilated the French army, but, to the great fury of the Germans, who like rules, the leaderless French fought on.
    So we see, cultures do exist, despite what the EU ruling class asserts.

    • Agree: Ilyana_Rozumova
  122. @CalDre

    @ Cal Nidre.
    I did read your comments carefully.
    I could not find one sentence that would have any appearance of truth or even would have any bearing, Your comments on Ukraine are empty, Zero. Zilch.
    And Germans did not promise Ukraine anything. Ukrainians asked for independence and Hitler turned them down straight without any hesitation.
    Your comments indicate that any discussion with you on subject of Ukraine would be worthless.
    ………………………………………………….
    Sorry no insult is intended and maybe we could have a discussion on subjects about which you are more knowledgeable.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  123. Seraphim says:
    @CalDre

    Actually, Bandera was not sent to a concentration camp at the ‘end of the day’, but at the beginning of it. Bandera and Stetsko were arrested on the 5th and 12th of July 1941, after the declaration of the independent Ukrainian State (“Act of Renewal of Ukrainian Statehood”) and taken to Berlin. In September 1941 they were arrested by the Gestapo and put in camp. They spent most of the war years in the concentration camp of Sachsenhausen, liberated only in 1944, when the Nazis thought, too late, that they might use them in the fight against the Soviets..

    • Replies: @CalDre
  124. Miggle says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    :-)

    Ilyana, I know it’s a waste of time saying this to you, but I will.

    Try to act like Ron Unz. Be scientific. Conduct your own forensic examination of the subject, looking at it from all sides.

    The key skill of the forensic scientist is not to prematurely jump to conclusions, but examine the evidence closely.

    But don’t worry. Go back to sleep.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  125. Epigon says:

    I have never understood what people see in Saker and his writings.

    It always comes off as hysterical, incoherent, black-white, and bordering parody at times.

    I am far more interested in comments by Ukrainian nationals on Ukraine, and debate between Ukrainians and Russians. Double so if we have Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians in Russia among our commenters.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Bill
  126. @Miggle

    You have a long way to understand my sense of humor. But as Chinese say a miles long journey starts with one step.

  127. CalDre says:
    @Seraphim

    “At the end of the day” is an idiom that is actually not a “time frame”, i.e., doesn’t mean “when time is over”, rather it is similar to “when all is said and done”, i.e., “in the final analysis”.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  128. CalDre says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    “Perhaps” it is your knowledge of Ukraine that is non-existent and any discussion with you on Ukraine would be worthless.

    Indeed, that is the case.

    No doubt you also believe that Russians never harmed a fly.

    Ukrainians asked for independence and Hitler turned them down straight without any hesitation.

    That is not true. OUN-Nazi intelligence collaboration began in 1933 (OUN was also fighting both Poland and Communist Russia), and lasted until June 1941, when Banderites declared independence and Banderite (and most of the OUN leadership) was arrested, revealing the Nazi double-cross.

  129. peterAUS says:
    @Epigon

    I am far more interested in comments by Ukrainian nationals on Ukraine, and debate between Ukrainians and Russians. Double so if we have Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians in Russia among our commenters.

    Agree.
    Especially, IMHO, by people living in Donbass/Novorossiya/whatever and their relatives/friends (anywhere) abroad.
    People knowing, from inside, what is really happening there.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  130. Robjil says:
    @peterAUS

    Well, US ukraine is a US puppet terror state. That is what it is. It has no brains of its own now. All the brains it has now is in Washington. That is what is really happening.

    • Replies: @Anon
  131. Beckow says:
    @jilles dykstra

    …Did anyone expect Putin to give away the most important Russian port, Sebastopol?

    I would hope that at least there was some plan, some calculation on the part of Obama’s administration. But I am afraid they never thought any of this through. It was all about process, small stuff, cheering each other on, ordering cookies, thinking up org-charts. There was a scent of infantilism about Nuland, McCain and the whole gang marching around Kiev with no plan, only slogans.

    Having an actual plan would involve a schedule, steps, contingencies, etc… Clearly there was none of that, just a bunch of over-grown children pontificating on ‘values’ and hoping for the best. When Russia made its move they were first stunned, then angry, and then moved on to a classical pouting lose-lose situation. That’s where we are today.

    One thing I can’t figure out is whether Putin is just playing for time, or whether there are some red lines that US-Russia agreed on. Putin has the upper hand, but he is doing nothing. Maybe waiting for Ukraine to get weaker, maybe for a distracting global event. Or as with many Machiavelian characters he wants to use his upper hand at the most profitable time. The risk there is that that time might never come.

    I think there is a non-zero chance that our civilization will be ended by an absent-minded barging by Obama’s team of ambituous morons into Ukraine. Small chance, probably less than 1 in 20. But historically 1 in 20 events sometimes happen.

  132. peterAUS says:

    Well…we both know where our “red line” of disagreement is so this post of mine is just for, say, forum benefit (yes, I know….). Maybe somebody else could chime in.

    One thing I can’t figure out is whether Putin is just playing for time, or whether there are some red lines that US-Russia agreed on.

    The former.
    There IS the later: a serious threat to the regime in Kremlin.
    So, realistically, 70/30 at this stage.

    Putin has the upper hand, but he is doing nothing.

    He has not the upper hand and that is exactly why is has been doing what he has been doing.
    He is a smart man. Those know their limitations, especially in a serious fight.

    Maybe waiting for Ukraine to get weaker, maybe for a distracting global event.

    Definitely waiting for Ukraine to implode and reinstate a Russian friendly regime.
    In order for that to happen some “other” entities have to weaken and/or implode.
    How likely is that……..God knows (maybe).

    Or as with many Machiavelian characters he wants to use his upper hand at the most profitable time. The risk there is that that time might never come.

    He is not that “Machiavelian character”. He is a Russian administrator managing his enterprise.
    Keyword “Administrator”.
    Agree with the later.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @ChuckOrloski
  133. Bill says:
    @Nonny

    Rubbish. Anonymous had it right.

  134. Bill says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    He failed to tell successive heretics’ acolytes after the first recipients of his wisdom (via the genocidal psychopath Moses) which version of theology and associated morality was correct, and he totally failed to communicate the Christian or other Abrahamic truth to Hindus, Buddhists and Animists. Ergo, there is no Abrahamic deity.

    Except He didn’t fail to do any of those things.

  135. Bill says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Mostly the problem is an educated laity – much brighter and better educated often than any priests or monks,

    Yeah, it’s hard not to be impressed with the brilliance of people who think Richard Dawkins is smart.

    • Replies: @Anon
  136. Bill says:
    @Epigon

    I have never understood what people see in Saker and his writings.

    I speak only for myself, but I started reading him in late 2013 or early 2014 during the Ukrainian coup. At that time, it was obvious that the line being sold by the western media and political elite was gibberish, but it was not obvious at all what was going on. Saker was a useful counterpoint to the gibberish, and he remains so. You are right about his writing style, for sure.

  137. Beckow says:
    @peterAUS

    Yeah, this is like watching a good detective story. It is tempting to guess the outcome, but it is almost more fun to be surprised. I peg Putin as more than an ‘administrator’, he acts independently and often visibly improvises – that suggests that he has a lot of room to manuever, not much that controls him inside Russia.

    You are I disagree on the relative strength: I think when the next hot phase of this fight happens, the decisive factor will be what can each side produce locally, in the local theatre, roughly in Ukraine, Crimea, Black See, southern Russia, maybe Poland, Belarus, Baltics. The global advantages will be of little use. That’s where I see a rather obvious Russia’s dominance – they can escalate at will, it is hard to see them defeated. As wars go, there is always a large percentage of opportunism – there are people who don’t pick a side, who don’t stand aside, but consciously seek to be on the winning side.

    I also think that Russia simply cannot lose this one – cannot lose Crimea or Donbas – and hope to survive in the long run as an independent power. They have pushed them against a wall and they literally have no place to retreat.

    The downside for Russia is the full-spectrum attack by the West (financial, political, media, culture). But since that has been going on for a few years, how much worse can it get? And at the end of the day what country really cares about nasty editorials in foreign newspapers? I think West overestimates its ‘soft power’. And in any case, soft power only matters when people generally like you – that’s no longer the case in most of the world. That has turned ‘soft power’ into preachy hectoring, and that has never been effective.

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @JLK
  138. @peterAUS

    Optimistically, shady PeterAUS wrote: “Definitely waiting for Ukraine to implode and reinstate a Russian friendly regime.”

    During the time when The Great Satan’s Congress was occupied by a Mueller-style investigation (& hearings) into the Iran-Contra “scandal,” I suppose Ayatollah Khomeini awaited implosion of the Reagan/Bush administration which supported both sides during the nine (9) year Iraq-Iran war.

  139. EugeneGur says:
    @peterAUS

    Held hostage by opportunistic separatist authorities

    This statement is, at the very least, debatable. If anyone holds the people of Donbass hostages, that’d be the government in Kiev that claims these people as its own. Even from this text it is clear where most of the restrictions come from, and it is not from the “opportunistic separatist authorities”.

    Does anyone here know that the moment the anti-Maidan protests in Donbass started, Kiev removed all essential government structures from the area, i.e. relocated the officials, removed documentation? Kiev also suspended bank services including freezing the bank accounts of the Donbass residents, i.e. essentially stealing their money. Furthermore, Kiev suspended all payments, pensions, subsidies, aids of all kinds, to Donbas resident.

    Even a Kiev court ruled that Kiev is obligated to pay to the Donbass residents. The resumption of pension payments is also one of the provisions of the Minsk accord. So far, Kiev ignored all that, and I have no doubt will continue doing so. The “opportunistic separatist authorities” had to organize at least minimal government services from scratch in a record time while fighting off the Kiev Army. Which they have done, by the way.

    Every two months, my grandmother must travel to government-controlled territory to claim her pension

    Yes, to claim the Ukrainian pension, the pension she contributed her whole life to, she must. However, retirees in Donbass do receive pensions paid by the DPR/LPR authorities – those same opportunistic ones. These pensions are necessarily small, since the resources are limited but they are being paid.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  140. FB says:
    @Herald

    Herald…perhaps you don’t realize that Potatohead Peter is quite retarded for his age…here is his latest proof…

    Saker…’Will the Novorussians be strong enough to beat back a Ukronazi attack without overt Russian intervention? Maybe. Probably.’

    Potatohead…’No, the Novorussians will not be strong enough. Russians will have to get involved.’

    So there you have it…Potatohead Peter has been to the Donbass war zone and he has ‘expertly’ assessed the situation and balance of forces and is now giving Unz readers the benefit of his massive and entirely self-invented military ‘expertise’…which mainly consists of sitting in his mom’s basement and playing video games…

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  141. EugeneGur says:
    @CalDre

    Ukrainians were oppressed by various empires for centuries, including Mongols, Poles (not just ethnic Poles but Jews) and Russians

    Speaking about skewed: you do know that Ukraine joined Russia voluntarily, don’t you? Moreover, Ukraine begged the Russian tsar for 7 years (!) to accept it. You also perhaps heard that a good part of today’s Ukraine had never anything to do with “Ukraine” as such but constituted various parts of the Russian Empire? What the Ukrainians claim about their “history” had very little to do with the reality.

    whom many Ukrainians accuse of having submitted to Mongols and intermixed with them – this is why Ukrainian supremacists view Russians as inferior and no longer of the same blood

    Yes the Ukrainians often do make this claim: the Russian are Mongols and not real Slavs or, in another version, Finnish-Hungarian and not real Slavs, where the Ukrainian are pure Slavic blue blood white bone, and are, therefore, superior to the Russians. Even assuming we are Mongols (this is ridiculous, of course, considering our predominantly blond blue-eyed fair-skinned phenotype), there is nothing wrong with that, and that’s what the Ukrainians fail to understand. That’s what makes them the Nazis; not so much the zigs or torch marches but the core beliefs that people are made inferior or superior by their blood.

    I have Russian friends in Odessa. None of them thinks Kiev is Nazi. And they freely speak Russian with each other. What kind of anti-Russian UkroNazi State is this?

    I can tell you what kind UkroNazi State this is. The kind you cannot communicate with in your native language, which is also the language of about 70% of people in Ukraine and close to 100% in Odessa. The kind where you cannot get education in you mother tongue, watch movies or TV shows, buy books, or celebrate holidays as you want to.

    The kind where everything from street signs to medicine instructions is written in the language nobody speaks. The kind where the state presumes to order you which God to pray to and how. The kind where you relatives living in Russia cannon visit you due to the state imposed restrictions. The kind where every punk positioning himself as a “patriot” can stop you on the street and harass you because you speak you mother tongue.

    Yes, you still can speak Russian in your own kitchen and in bed with your wife. We call it “freedoms of thought and dream”. Some Western Ukrainian regions already banned all public appearance of the Russian language. I am sure more is to follow.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  142. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow

    I peg Putin as more than an ‘administrator’, he acts independently and often visibly improvises – that suggests that he has a lot of room to manuever, not much that controls him inside Russia.

    As a good CEO (enterprise), or a (3 stars up) Commander , or…..
    But, he is NOT a visionary. He is not a believer in some new ideology, philosophy, some new way of things.
    He manages, does not lead into something great and new.

    And Russia, and the word in general, need somebody like that in Kremlin. Or anywhere with some muscle.

    You are I disagree on the relative strength: I think when the next hot phase of this fight happens, the decisive factor will be what can each side produce locally, in the local theatre, roughly in Ukraine, Crimea, Black See, southern Russia, maybe Poland, Belarus, Baltics.

    I think we disagree on whether will be a fight of that type. I think it will not.
    The next hot phase, if it happens at all, will be localized, limited even between Russia and Ukraine; we definitely will not see Russian troops taking Kiev.
    The Empire is going against the regime in Kremlin in exactly the same way West was going against Soviet Union before the fall of The Wall. And it looks like Kremlin is defending the same way.

    I also think that Russia simply cannot lose this one – cannot lose Crimea or Donbas – and hope to survive in the long run as an independent power. They have pushed them against a wall and they literally have no place to retreat.

    They can retreat. The regime in Kremlin can allow “International presence” in Donbas.
    One step at a time.

    And in any case, soft power only matters when people generally like you – that’s no longer the case in most of the world.

    It works the best when people have shitty lives while their “betters” have it good. Like the last time it worked in that part of the world.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  143. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    Be that as it may, the only which matters here, really, is:

    …..imagine how tired we are.

    Care to comment on that?

    On practical level, how motivated people there would be to go against Ukrainian “push”?
    My take: not much.
    Add to it the current state of defense forces there (a lot of it having to do with Kremlin) and we have the necessity of Russian direct intervention.

    And I do not think the intervention will benefit Kremlin in their ongoing conflict with The Empire.

    So, maybe Kremlin will, in their immortal wisdom and multidimensional chess, decide to do something else. For some reason I don’t think people in Donbass will care either way.

    As to people in Russia itself…..that’s an interesting question.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  144. @Robjil

    Neonazi label is real.

    sure it is

    just like all those that went to Charlottesville were “neo-nazis”

    • Replies: @Robjil
  145. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill

    Well professor tell us about your credentials for determining who is smart. And BTW, where can we find the texts of those Abrahamic God messages to the Hindus and Buddhists? And how do we know he got their IP addresses right so to speak?

  146. @Avery

    What is overlooked in this situation is that non-Slavs have – again – successfully brainwashed one section of Slavs to kill large numbers of their fellow Slavs.

    (((non-slavs))) like victoria nuland started things down this path

  147. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robjil

    And what are your sources of information to justify such assertions?

  148. JLK says:
    @Beckow

    The downside for Russia is the full-spectrum attack by the West (financial, political, media, culture). But since that has been going on for a few years, how much worse can it get?

    There are many layers to US-Russia/USSR diplomacy dating back to WWII. Secrets held by mutual assent, deals made during the Cold War that might embarrass one party more than the other at this stage, and so forth. Some of this has already been peeled back- Putin has been complaining that Germany does not have full sovereignty for years. If pushed too far against the wall, who knows what might be released? Russian intelligence no doubt knows the skinny on just about every mysterious activity taking place in the world, from the international drug trade to predatory Wall Street capitalism. It knows what news in the US MSM is fake, and why.

    Beyond that, we could have a limited shooting war. We’d better hope that the two sides have anti-escalation protocols in place before it starts.

    I’m still trying to figure out what the biggest underlying issues are. The gas pipeline issue seems to be a red herring. The US and Israel seems to be bent on creating an independent Kurdistan, but that should bother Iran and Turkey more than Russia.

  149. Not quite. Saakashvili attacked South Ossetia out of stupidity, whereas Poroshenko arranged the provocation in Kerch Straits out of desperation. The only way he can win coming presidential elections is by cancelling them.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  150. @JLK

    The biggest issue is Organized Jewry. Russia will not submit completely to them (willingness to cooperate, as Russia plainly assents to, is insufficient), and in particular Russia asserts its national interests in the Muslim world. Hence they must be destroyed, economically or otherwise. Pipelines and the Kurds and such are important but ultimately secondary.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  151. @AnonFromTN

    Basically true, but both men were green-lighted by the West.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  152. peterAUS says:
    @JLK

    I’m still trying to figure out what the biggest underlying issues are

    If I may: “they have it, we want it, let’s get it”. Worked since caveman.

    Russia has plenty of…..stuff. “They have it”.

    The Empire/whatever wants is, obviously. I mean, TPTBs are squeezing dry their own population; squeezing it from some Ruskies….what’s the problem? Besides, seen that all during the drunkard reign not so long ago. I mean,not so long ago for grown ups around, minority, of course, in today’s populace. Those with 15 seconds attention span. Anyway..that’s for “we want it”.

    On a deeper level it would prolong the current (f*&cked up) system we live in. Say….for the next 20 years, probably. Just enough for majority of TPTBs to die off (in opulence, mind you).

    So, there is where “let’s get it” comes. How to get that.

    Obviously, by replacing the current regime (and supporters of) in Kremlin with that of, say, “drunkard” type. Replace Putin and his team with something resembling…let me think…Macron type “leadership” team. Plenty of examples around to pick up.

    The game in Syria is part of the overall play. Same for Ukraine.

    Now, having said that, the real issues of people in both countries mentioned above still apply. But, that’s, of course, simply (mis)used (depending on the viewpoint) by the “players”. Kremlin included.

    I mean….as soon as Syria gets neutralized Iran is next. Well, maybe even without it. After Iran, to the North….

    In Ukraine, as soon as Donbass goes “down” we are looking, probably, at Belorussia. Or plenty of other possibilities there.

    One step at a time.

    That’s it.

    • Replies: @JLK
  153. Anon[140] • Disclaimer says:

    Nato UK says:

    “The recent skirmish with Ukrainian vessels is part of the Kremlin’s long-term efforts to destabilize Ukraine and consolidate its control over Crimea.”

    ”The military balance in the Sea of Azov is not in Ukraine’s favour. Despite US assistance, Ukrainian naval forces and patrolling capabilities do not represent a viable deterrent against Russian forces at sea. To guarantee some degree of access in a contested environment, Ukraine needs to increase its military footprint not just at sea but on land through coastal and air defence systems.”


    From: In Sea of Azov, Russia Again Tests Its Strength

    https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/sea-azov-russia-again-tests-its-strength

  154. Robjil says:
    @Hebraic Hypocrite

    I know. In US ukraine there is real terror on the people of Ukraine. The US uses real terrorism to control it. It works just like Isis or Al-Qaeda, which are also US/Israel proxy terrorists. US ukraine is a USA terror state. All brains for its control are in Washington. On May 2 2014 in Odessa, 40 or more protesters were killed and many burnt alive. The killers wrote “Galicien SS” on the walls. Neonazi ™ US terror is real in US ukraine. In Charlottesville, the protesters were not “neonazis” , they were independent protesters who respect Southern culture. Our media twisted it to make Charlottesville look so bad and “neonazi”. Yet, our media twists the real facts of the massive real horrors of US ukraine or says nothing about them. Ironically, the US terror state of Ukraine really has many, many parades of people with torches. In Charlottesville, there were a few torch holders asking respect for Southern culture and it had nothing to do with MSM’s imaginary “neonazis”.

  155. JLK says:
    @peterAUS

    I mean….as soon as Syria gets neutralized Iran is next. Well, maybe even without it. After Iran, to the North….

    The future of the South Pars gas field in the Persian Gulf between Iran and Qatar probably has something to do with the present tension. It is the largest in the world, with a lot of future profits involved.

  156. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Yes. The US and self-appointed West always chooses the most odious scum, like Saakashvili in Georgia or Poroshenko in Ukraine. You cannot make an honest person a puppet: nothing to hold over his/her head to ensure obedience.

  157. EugeneGur says:
    @peterAUS

    On practical level, how motivated people there would be to go against Ukrainian “push”?

    Of course, they are tired – wouldn’t you be? But you are dead wrong about the rest. On the practical level, they will go against the Ukrainian push with everything they’ve got. Actually, many in Donbass wish the Ukies would attack them, for they want this standoff to end. And they will fight, because they know that no matter how bad things seem now, they’ll be infinitely worse if Kiev is allowed to take over.

    Besides, the Donbass people might be trapped in no man’s land, their present poor and their future uncertain, but in some ways they are better off than their Ukrainian counterparts: they speak their own language and finally, after a quarter of a century of restrictions, have full access to their own culture; they are valued and respected serving in some way as a example for the whole of Russia instead of being treated as second class as they always had been in Ukraine.

    Even on the material side, Donbass has things many in Ukraine lack, such as heating in the homes, for example, or medicine. They can have immunizations for their children – Ukrainians go to the “aggressor” Russia to do that. Donbass won’t give any of this up.

    Add to it the current state of defense forces there (a lot of it having to do with Kremlin) and we have the necessity of Russian direct intervention.

    Tell you what – the state of their defense forces might be far from ideal but it’s a hell of a a lot better than the state of the Ukrainian Army, bravado statements of the Ukrainian government notwithstanding. Furthermore, the conditions of the Donbass defenses could change rather quickly if need be as the experience’s shown.

    So, maybe Kremlin will, in their immortal wisdom and multidimensional chess, decide to do something else.

    It won’t – not a chance in hell. The Russian people do care and so does the Donbass. Russia won’t let Donbass do under any circumstances. People of Donbass want to normalize their lives, naturally, but not at the price of surrendering to Kiev.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  158. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    ….you are dead wrong about the rest. ….

    Hehe………..you remind me of some guys……

    Anyway, we’ll see, won’t we?

  159. As just about everything in the so-called West these days, Ukraine is mainly about turning everything over to the Chinese. To wit:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10332007/China-to-rent-five-per-cent-of-Ukraine.html

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  160. CalDre says:
    @EugeneGur

    Speaking about skewed: you do know that Ukraine joined Russia voluntarily, don’t you?

    LOL. In 1917 Russian Bolsheviks invaded to rout the Ukrainian nationalists. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk gave Ukraine freedom from Bolshevik totalitarianism / genocide. But Bolsheviks kept clawing at Ukraine and after the Central Powers were defeated, used the Red Army to absorb Ukraine into the totalitarian Soviet hellhole.

    Moreover, Ukraine begged the Russian tsar for 7 years (!) to accept it.

    Please elaborate, I don’t know what you mean.

    You also perhaps heard that a good part of today’s Ukraine had never anything to do with “Ukraine” as such but constituted various parts of the Russian Empire?

    There are political borders and there are cultural, linguistic and ethnic borders. Sure, Russia was an Imperial power that conquered and subjugated a lot of its neighbors, not unlike the Mongols before them. Ukrainians remember both invasions and occupations quite well.

    What the Ukrainians claim about their “history” had very little to do with the reality.

    Typical Russian nationalist perspective. Only Russia knows, right? Ukrainians are far too stupid to understand their own history, right? Tell me more, comrade.

    That’s what makes them the Nazis; not so much the zigs or torch marches but the core beliefs that people are made inferior or superior by their blood.

    You don’t know the first thing about Nazis. Virtually every ethnic group thinks they are superior to others. Russians most certainly do. Doesn’t make them “Nazis”, duhhh. In fact, I’ve spoken and debated with so many Russians, I can say, it is even an almost universal Russian belief that Russians are superior to Ukrainians in virtually every way: language, culture, literature, poetry, science, economics, blood, intelligence, ad infinitum. You want to look at supremacist Nazis, you’ll find plenty right among you in Russia. Maybe you are too much of a “Nazi” yourself to notice? Like Saker, you just throw that word around to demonize people you don’t like, simply because the term “Nazi” has been equated with the greatest evil the world has ever known (quite wrongly, but so it is). Ukrainians believing they are superior to Russians hardly makes them Nazis or evil, unless they act on it by oppressing Russians – sort of like Russians have for centuries acted on their sense of superiority and oppressed Ukrainians. So, again, we have the real “Nazis” … in Russia … the Muscovites, actually, since the entire rest of the Empire exists only to serve them.

    I can tell you what kind UkroNazi State this is. The kind you cannot communicate with in your native language, which is also the language of about 70% of people in Ukraine and close to 100% in Odessa. The kind where you cannot get education in you mother tongue, watch movies or TV shows, buy books, or celebrate holidays as you want to.

    Rubbish, all of it. You can find Russian-language schools in Odessa. You can find May Day protests in Kryvyi Rih. Try going to VK and look at the timelines of some Odessans. I searched for “одесса” and the first three accounts I found were all in Russian (and of course my friends’ accounts as well). And oh look – a 2018 video of Arcadia, the main tourist attraction and nightlife of the city, with the big welcome gate writing “Arcadia” written in … Russian. Those Nazis need to work a bit harder, wouldn’t you say!

    LOL, typical Russian nationalist disinformation. You don’t know the first thing about Ukraine but the propaganda your Muscovite oligarchs serve up and you think you are an expert. No, you are either woefully deceived or a liar.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  161. Miggle says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I should also have said, it is you, Sillymova, who are unbelievably confused. At best. Unbelievably dishonest, most likely.

    Luther’s trigger was the false pretense that God had abdicated to the Pope his power to forgive sins, and the obscene, deeply corrupt fact that the Pope was selling forgiveness of sins for money. Your misrepresentation and defamation of Luther is disgusting.

    As well as Luther there were other, independent Protestant leaders.

    Now, go away and sing Roses of Picardy, then come back and read the following.

    John Calvin (Jean Cauvin) was a Picard.

    Picardy was the region of France where Wiclif, Huss and the Waldenses were traditionally better known than in any other part of France.

    Calvin studied and wrote independently, but the Waldenses or Waldensians had been Calvinists for centuries before Calvin was born, since about 1173. In the 16th century, when he had become the leader of the Reformed Church, they formally became Calvinists.

    Your defamatory, I hope totally ignorant pretenses concerning the origins of the Reformation are revealing of you.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  162. Seraphim says:
    @Miggle

    England fomenting the Protestant revolution? Wycliffe.

  163. Robjil says:
    @CalDre

    This would be fine and dandy if US ukraine was an independent state. These days it is a US terror state with all its “leaders” taking orders from the US. Here is a map of 1917-20 Ukraine.

    Ukraine of 1917-20 was the Malorussian area, the original Ukraine. Malorussia of the Russian Empire was the center of area around Kiev without any borders on the Black Sea. It was similar in size to Belorossia of today. Ukraine means borderlands, this name was adopted so more land could be taken around the borders of it. Malorussia the original or little Russia name for the territory would not be a good name for it to expand its borders. In 1917-20, only the Malorussian area was Ukraine. Southern part on the Black Sea was still part of Russia. There was large Donetsk Republic in East. Ironically, there is a Donetsk republic again today.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  164. Informed, Robjil, I sense you will be interested in the anti-war “news” report, linked below.

    https://news.antiwar.com/2018/12/03/ukraine-raids-orthodox-churches-run-by-pro-russian-priests/

    When learning about this raid, am reminded of how, in Gulag 1, the late-Alexander Solzhenitsyn described the criminal regime’s entrance into an Orthodox family “wake,” an NKVD search including overturning a Departed’s casket, and the Soviet rigged-trial of Patriarch Nikon.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  165. Beckow says:
    @peterAUS

    Visionaries do more harm than good, they are dangerous. Historically, ideologues or visionaries trigger search for the ultimate justice, for a perfect end-of-days system – and usually after it is over all you have is a lot of dead people everywhere. (We don’t not need no f…ing visionaries :)…

    For Russia to retreat from Donbas would be devastating, no matter how they would try to spin it. (And from Crimea probably fatal.) West controls global narratives and it would describe it as a defeat, it would gradually rub it in. There would be no ‘compromise’ in Western narrative. This is one reason why negotiating this is so impossible – Russia couldn’t trust that there would be even remotely fair treatment of any ‘deal’, West would pile on ideologically.

    Look at Syria where the following happened: West tried to use ISIS to take over a country by outright barbarism (or terrorism), it allied itself with medieval primitives, it threw all it had into the war – and it lost completely. But is this the story? No, it gets nuanced, it literally avoids stating what is obvious to any 5-year old. That’s the way West handles losing a war – what do you think a story would be if there is a ‘deal’ in Ukraine? The greedy and narcissistic desire to be always seen as ‘winning’ is undermining any chance for a compromise. That makes it much worse for the Ukrainians themselves.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  166. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    Borders changed a lot. Borders mean who has political control (tyranny) – so yes the Muscovites ruled parts of Ukraine in different periods. Just like US ruled Baghdad for some years. That does not make Iraq American, capiche? You trot out these irrelevant conquest facts as if the fact that Russia has occasionally conquered Ukraine means Ukraine should forever be happy to be subjugated to the Muscovite yoke. News flash: you are wrong on every conceivable level of thought, except for the Russian Imperialist/Supremacist one.

    Russian supremacism is so ubiquitous in Russia. I know Russians love to complain about US “exceptionalism” and “imperialism” but I am quite sure if Russia were in the same position power-wise as US, it would be acting even far more aggressively. Because virtually every Russian I meet on line writes garbage like you do. Always “it all belongs to Russia” crap and “Russia is always right” garbage.

    Spare us.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Melotte 22
  167. @Miggle

    I am sorry but Truth is truth and facts are facts. H8 asked for divorce from pope. Pope did not go along. So H8 invented Anglican religion and happily was killing his wives.

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @Beckow
  168. @CalDre

    One little detail that might ruin your house of cards: there never was any Ukraine. Ukraine means borderlands in both Russian and Polish. Russian tsar Ivan the Terrible in one of his edicts said: “а всех юродивых и убогих ссылать на Окраину, там им дуракам место” (“send all the mad and defective to Ukraine, that’s a proper place for those fools”).

    Slobozhanschina (Kharkov region) was part of the Russian Empire long before Ukrainian Hetman Bogdan Khmelnitsky begged Russian tsar to accept Ukraine (a small area around Kiev, about 1/5th of the current monstrosity). Tsar was in doubt for seven (!) years, after which he tried to share responsibility and called an assembly of citizens to decide. Novorossia (from the East to Odessa) was captured by the Russian Empire from the Ottoman Empire. Every city in that territory was founded by Russian tsars. Crimea was captured by the Russian Empire from Ottoman-allied sultans separately. Current Ukraine was created by Lenin and expanded by Stalin (added Western Ukraine and trans-Carpathian region in 1939) and Khrushchev (added Crimea in 1954). Created by criminals for criminals. That explains current situation better than anything.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  169. @CalDre

    Let’s make this easier for you.

    There are Russians and self–hatred Russians aka ‘Ukrainians’.
    You are obviously the latter.
    I hope you and the rest of ‘Ukrainians’ will come to their senses at some stage and ‘come home’ to where you belong. Good luck.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @CalDre
  170. @Melotte 22

    I don’t think Russians would want that. At the moment the prevailing sentiment in Russia about Ukrainians is that it’s good that they aren’t brothers: it would be a shame to have brothers like that.

  171. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow

    Visionaries do more harm than good, they are dangerous. Historically, ideologues or visionaries trigger search for the ultimate justice, for a perfect end-of-days system – and usually after it is over all you have is a lot of dead people everywhere. (We don’t not need no f…ing visionaries :)…

    Mmm……

    For Russia to retreat from Donbas would be devastating, no matter how they would try to spin it.

    What retreat? There is no “Russia” in Donbass. At least that’s what the regime in Kremlin has been saying.
    As for “devastating”, not really, at last where it matters. The regime in Kremlin being in power, that is.
    Anyway, I do see some scenarios there of type which would decrease Russian influence and power in that region.
    Say, some sort of “international presence” in the region. For a starter (or continuation, if you will) because, of course

    ..Russia couldn’t trust that there would be even remotely fair treatment of any ‘deal’…

    As for the last paragraph

    …..and it lost completely…..

    You guys are ……good.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  172. Miggle says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I am sorry but Truth is truth and facts are facts. H8 asked for divorce from pope. Pope did not go along. So H8 invented Anglican religion and happily was killing his wives.

    What desperate squirming! Truth is truth and has to be denied at all costs? You start with false defamation of Martin Luther and when that doesn’t work switch to a totally separate, non-religious rejection of Papal authority by someone else in a different country, saying that was invention of a religion. The truth? Deny! Deny!

  173. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    Further to that “international presence”, maybe interesting:

    https://www.crisisgroup.org/europe-central-asia/eastern-europe/ukraine/donbas-peacekeeping-opportunities-and-risks

    The interesting part, for some……is:

    ….Other options might include troops from countries such as Austria, Switzerland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and Argentina, all of which would probably be acceptable to most Ukrainians. …..

    Great……

    Some practical points:

    ….Western officials say they are exploring options for a phased deployment that would combine security and political steps: deployment along the line of contact; followed by Kyiv’s adoption of legislation on greater autonomy for conflict regions; then deployment all the way to the border; and finally, local elections in Donbas. There are many hurdles to such a scenario, which would, however, address key points of the Minsk framework…

    Also, perhaps, interesting, for some:

    …A final question is whether the Security Council ought to establish a temporary UN administration to govern separatist-held areas until the return of Ukrainian authority. Some past UN missions – Eastern Slavonia, Kosovo and Timor Leste – played this role. …

  174. Seraphim says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    The Patriarch in question was Tikhon. Nikon lived some 300 years ago.

  175. CalDre says:
    @Melotte 22

    I have lived in Ukraine for many years (hence, unlike you, know what I am writing about), but I not Ukrainian. Don’t even speak the language (just a little Russian).

    Again, you show your vitriolic, imperialistic, evil supremacism with your ignominious dogma:

    There are Russians and self–hatred Russians aka ‘Ukrainians’.

    Again, this is why all of Russia’s neighbors despise, loathe and hate Russia. Rightly so. Your utterly despicable attitude is completely representative of vile Russian supremacism and imperialism.

    • Replies: @Melotte 22
  176. CalDre says:
    @AnonFromTN

    One little detail that might ruin your house of cards: there never was any Ukraine.

    Aside from some brief periods, true. But that is like saying Kurds don’t have their own country, or (before 1945), Jews don’t have their own country, so there are no Kurds or Jews. Again, you are conceptualizing this in terms of Empire, not in terms of People. Because fundamentally you are a nefarious Russian imperialist.

    So Ivan the Terrible was an anti-Ukrainian Russian supremacist? LOL, one of many. Any wonder why Ukrainians hate Russians? Russians have always treated Ukraine like shit. Even UK has respect for its former penal colony Australia (though Ukraine of course never served that role, just pointing out how utterly racist and supremacist Russian attitudes are, as is clearly revealed when speaking to almost any Russian about Ukraine.)

    Slobozhanschina (Kharkov region) was part of the Russian Empire

    In the 19th Century. Ukraine’s history goes back to the 10th Century. Do try to keep up. I did state numerous times that Russia has often conquered and subjugated Ukraine, you only confirm those unfortunate facts.

    Khmelnitsky sought Russian assistance, based on common faith, to repel Polish attacks. Because Russia was not confident it could win against Poland, it refused to help (its “brothers”, eh, comrade?). As I noted, Ukrainians have been ruled by various empires from time to time – they occupy one of those unfortunate positions between Europe and Asia that gets consistently overrun (Mongols, Poles, Lithuanians, Ottomans, Russians). Ever the more reason they seek independence and freedom now.

    Every city in that territory was founded by Russian tsars.

    Again, a lie. I can’t go through every city in that region, but for example Donetsk was founded by John Huges (Welsh). Citites like Mariupol, it is not clear when they were founded. Granted, Odessa was formally founded by Catherine the Great, but that was 1000 years after the Greeks settled there.

    But I will grant you Crimea and Odessa are more Russian and Ukrainian. I do support Crimean re-unification with Russia, that was the correct outcome and should have happened in 1991.

    Created by criminals for criminals.

    What arrogant, evil lies you spread. Disgusting, racist, and vile. This is why Ukrainians, and virtually all European neighbors and civilized people, will always hate Russians – because of your evil, vile, imperialist mindset and refusal to ever apologize or take responsibility for your historical crimes, instead celebrating them, worse than Germans celebrating Nazis.

    Fortunately Putin is not like you and is actually doing a lot of good for Russia.

  177. @CalDre

    Wow! Someone who knows no history is teaching me history. Are you like Bush Jr., dumb, ignorant, and proud of it?

    FYI, Mariupol was founded by the Russian Empire as Pavlovsk in 1778. It became Mariupol and started rapid growth two years later when the Crimean Greeks were lured by Katherine the Great out of Moslem Crimea to Russian Empire.

    Donetsk was indeed founded by John Huges, yet another Ukrainian, wouldn’t you say? I can give you a list of Southern and Eastern cities in today’s Ukraine with the names of the Russian tsars and the dates they founded them, but that list is boringly long. Tell me more.

    Ukrainian history did not start in the 10th century simply because there was no Ukraine back then. In fact Novgorod prince Oleg (882-912; he was a varyag, so even the mad Ukies don’t call him Russian nationalist) in the 9th century conquered Kiev, killed local potentates, and made it his capital. The state he founded was called Rus, whereas specific Ukrainian, Russian, and Belorussian versions of the language appeared many centuries later. The ancient inscriptions on the walls of Sofia temple in Kiev are in Russian by people calling themselves Russians. The term Kievan Rus was coined in the nineteenth century by Russian historians (Wiki is not always true, but here is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27).

    The first book in Ukrainian was Kotliarevsky’s Eneïda, written in 1798, first published in 1842. BTW, Kotliarevsky was an officer in the Russian Imperial Army. As late as in the nineteenth century Ivan Franko (1856-1916) wrote that he was offended by being called Ukrainian, as he considered himself Rusin (Ukrainian then meant a catholic, whereas Rusin or Maloross meant Orthodox).

    However, I think it’s pointless to tell you all this, you appear to be one of those people who sincerely believe that the world consists of three roughly equal parts: Main Street, out-of-town, and overseas. I guess ignorance is bliss.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  178. @CalDre

    Not for you, but for the honest people reading this thread: I am half Ukrainian, I was born in Lvov and grew up in Lugansk, which Ukie Nazis shelled and bombed until local freedom fighters pushed them far enough away from the city. I speak Ukrainian, both the literary Ukrainian (originated around Poltava) and the Western Ukrainian dialect spoken around Lvov (which is very different, not as beautiful and melodious as Poltava Ukrainian). I speak and read Ukrainian much better than most self-appointed Ukrainian “patriots”. My teacher of Ukrainian language and literature (both were obligatory under Soviet “oppression”) in school loved me because I was the only kid in class (among 40+ kids) who could speak proper Ukrainian.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  179. CalDre says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You are a liar and fraud.

  180. CalDre says:
    @AnonFromTN

    dumb, ignorant, and proud of it

    You describe yourself very well.

    FYI, Mariupol was founded by the Russian Empire as Pavlovsk in 1778

    People have lived there for centuries. Records of the period are sparse so I don’t have a name to give you but do you want to tell me that at this place where a river meets the Azov Sea, was unpopulated until 1778? LOL, typical nonsense from a self-proclaimed “expert”. Yes it was given a name in the history books in 1778. That by itself proves nothing. Before then it was populated by different groups, including Zaporozhian Cossacks.

    Donetsk was indeed founded by John Huges, yet another Ukrainian, wouldn’t you say

    I wrote he was Welsh. You, however, lied and claimed every city in the region was founded by Russian tsars. Since Donetsk is by far the largest city in the region, and you proclaim yourself to be a “great expert”, I accuse you of deliberate prevarication or utter stupidity, you tell me which?

    give you a list of Southern and Eastern cities in today’s Ukraine with the names of the Russian tsars and the dates they founded them

    A link would suffice. Please be sure to include: Nikolaev (founded in 5th Century BC by Greeks), Dnepropetrovsk (founded in the mid 16th Century by Poland), Krivoy Rog (founded in 1734 by Zaporozhian Cossacks), and Zaporozhye (founded by Scythians several thousand years ago). These represent all of the larges cities in the region, aside from Odessa, which we established was founded by Greeks in the 6th Century BC). Yes, the Russian tsars renamed cities to Russian names – part of the imperialist tyranny I referred to earlier. That doesn’t make them “founders” of the city and most certainly does not give them any rights over the peoples who inhabited those areas.

    Ukrainian history did not start in the 10th century simply because there was no Ukraine back then

    That is far too stupid to even merit a response. But par for the course for a liar like you.

    The first book in Ukrainian was Kotliarevsky’s Eneïda

    That depends entirely on what you mean by “Ukrainian”. Languages evolve. Dutch and German were once the same language; Spanish, Italian and French all stem from Latin. You are obviously not at all versed in linguistics. Have a look-see at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language . Note the mention of the Evil Russian Empire banning the Ukrainian language in Ukraine. No doubt you celebrate that, whilst at the same time decrying the alleged (but completely unfounded) ban of Russian in Ukraine.

    I guess ignorance is bliss.

    For you, it appears to be. But I am leaning toward you not being ignorant but a deliberate liar.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  181. @CalDre

    Well, I argue with people, not with Ukies. For normal readers: there is a huge difference between Ukrainians and Ukies: Ukrainians are people, whereas Ukies are scum.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  182. CalDre says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Well, I am neither Ukie nor Ukrainian, but you are a liar and a fraud.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  183. @CalDre

    Sure. I show my ‘vitrolic, imperialistic, evil supremacism, blah,blah,blah’…

    You’ve just proved my point. You are a self-hatred Russian aka ‘Ukrainian’.
    I can smell your kind miles away.

    I wish you a speedy recovery.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @AnonFromTN
  184. You are soooooo pathetic that is unbelievable.
    Eventually I will be helping you out but not this time I am a little busy.

    • Replies: @Nonny
  185. ‘Ditto for his moronic VP who tried to scare Putin by “staring him down” with his rendition of what he hopes what a “steel glare” in Singapore.’

    The steel glare of Maxwell Smart. Is Mike Pence in fact Don Adams?

    https://tenor.com/view/what-confused-maxwell-smart-gif-7739030

  186. CalDre says:
    @Melotte 22

    Sure. I show my ‘vitrolic, imperialistic, evil supremacism, blah,blah,blah’…

    Calling every Ukrainian a self-hating Russian is exactly that. I just speak truth. Sorry that your truth is so evil.

    I can smell your kind miles away.

    Your nose is obviously as pathetic and dysfunctional as your brain, as I am not Ukrainian.

    I wish you a speedy recovery.

    Thanks, but I am in no need of recovery. You are. And I do wish you a speedy recovery – that you learn some respect, empathy, humility and intelligence. I.e., that you stop being this vitriolic, imperialistic sociopath.

  187. Anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @CalDre

    You are a hasbara troll.

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  188. Nonny says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Ilyana, I personally think the Saker’s article is excellent and informative. A you villifying him just because you’re a Ukie?

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  189. Miggle says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I’ve just read PCR’s recent words. He says: Western “Civilization” is nothing but a killing machine.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  190. @Nonny

    I was referring to comment section.
    Saker gets occasionally overheated but beside that he is just fine.

  191. @Anonymous

    He/she/it is not necessarily a hasbara troll. If we accept that he/she/it is not a Ukie (which is a big if), it can be one of those people in the West who consider themselves thinking because they read a lot more than their brain can digest. So, they are stuck in a permanent state of intellectual indigestion. I don’t think it’s a very comfortable situation, so normal people should commiserate with them.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  192. Beckow says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    …H8 invented Anglican religion and happily was killing his wives

    H8 was one happy guy, but he didn’t kill all his wives. The first one – an elderly Spanish lady he was forced to marry – was sent to a monastery. Then he killed a few for ‘cheating’ and one died in child-birth. He loved one so much that he mourned her till his own death. A complicated fellow.

    Technically he asked his buddies to invent the Anglican religion, he himself was barely literate. Anglicanism is nothing else than ‘catholicism in one country‘ – same religion, no submission to the Pope.

    Luther put more thought into his rebellion. It was essentially a nationalist (German) revolution – Pope in Rome and his institutions were the Medieval version of today’s globalism collecting money on all transactions. Pope even had the same ‘virtue monopoly’ that we see today in the globalist liberal elite. That precedent suggests that today’s civilisational split will end up with an actual geographic split between the two sides: a rump globalist part and a collection of rebellious (nationalist) countries.

    (But what the f.. do I know, maybe they will just blow it up, too much history to handle, time for a reset.)

    • Replies: @Miggle
  193. @Melotte 22

    Don’t mix up Ukrainians and Ukies. Ukies are a vocal pushy minority in Ukraine, pretty much like pro-Israel Jews in the US. Currently they are the tail wagging the dog, but they are still the tail, not the dog. Ukrainians are human. Most of them already resent the pile of shit Ukies lead their country into.
    Ukies cannot recover: mental disorders are incurable. But Ukrainians will recover, and Ukies will rue that day. Will serve them right.

  194. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …permanent state of intellectual indigestion

    A professor (in US) once told me: ‘you will never understand Americans if you don’t understand that most totally lack in experience‘. It took me a while to see what he meant.

    There is a kernel of truth in it, most Americans really don’t have the accumulated mental picture of our common civilisation. They pick and choose, exaggerate, are easily manipulated. The lack of actual genetic experience of these issues usually means that they are impatient, ignorant and prone to stupid actions. They do resemble children, so one gets statements like this unfortunate fellow above – ‘that’s why all your neighbours hate you, you are this-that-and the other‘. Basically a combination of anger, mental lazyness and malice. That’s what one gets when confusing a child about something that child really wants.

    You advised me at one point to ignore them, and I probably should. It is uncharitable to mock the ignorant and they have so much worse coming their way, reality is cruel and always reasserts itself. But these flashes of what is really going on in their minds are illuminating and I am not that charitable…

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @anon
    , @CalDre
  195. @Beckow

    You are right, but there are extenuating circumstances. The American public school system is awful. It works pretty much like a bad kindergarten: they are kept locked up and out of trouble, but hardly taught anything. Maybe 1% of schools deserve to be called that. Then there is college. Most of it is remedial at best: they are taught what they should have learned in school, but didn’t. Only 2% of college grads attended Ivies, maybe another 3-5% attended decent colleges, the rest also get BA or BS, but remain as ignorant as when they entered. Then there is grad school, attended by a tiny minority of that minority that goes to college. Again, in our grad school the first year is largely remedial: we teach them things they should have learned in college, but didn’t. The ones who attended decent colleges find it boring, the rest learn something for the first time in their lives. When I write an equation, the jaws of American grad students drop, whereas Chinese and Eastern European students know that equations make your life easier, as they have predictive value. And that’s natural sciences. Humanities in the US are 90% BS and propaganda, with substance amounting to 10% at best. So, the people are born no dumber than elsewhere, but the US spends a lot of effort to keep them as ignorant as possible. That’s why they are so easy to manipulate, which is the whole point.
    That person is a typical product of this education system, except that he/she/it also reads something. However, he/she/it totally lacks comprehension, because you need to put facts into proper context to appreciate their meaning. Arguing with people like that is like having a heart-to-heart conversation with a lamppost.

    • Replies: @Avery
  196. EugeneGur says:
    @CalDre

    Ukraine’s history goes back to the 10th Century.

    In the dreams of Ukrainian nationalists only.

    This is why Ukrainians, and virtually all European neighbors and civilized people, will always hate Russians – because of your evil, vile, imperialist mindset

    This is, of course, NOT “disgusting racist, and vile” but simply charming coming from “civilized” people. And who would those “civilized” people be, pray? Not the same people, by any chance, who bombed Yugoslavia, destroyed Iraq and Libya, are trying to to destroy Syria and Afghanistan and helping to destroy Yemen? I thought so.

    And we ever so grateful to our European neighbors – for multiple invasions, for the destruction of the country in 1941-45, for the robbery of the country’s resources and misery of 1990s, for their soldiers on our border targeting our cities, for the sanctions, for constant malicious lies, for supporting every scumbag against Russia and every terrorist killing our children, for ever present desire to hurt us whichever way they can think of – we just adore them.

    Donetsk was founded by John Huges (Welsh). Cities like Mariupol, it is not clear when they were founded.

    Yes, the birth date of Donetsk is considered to be 1869 when the construction of a metal producing plant began. The construction was done under auspices of the Novorossia (!) Society founded and directed by John Huges upon the agreement with the government of Alexander II. Mariupol was founded in 1778 under Kathrine the Great. ccYou see Ukraine mentioned somewhere here?

    • Replies: @CalDre
  197. Avery says:
    @AnonFromTN

    { So, the people are born no dumber than elsewhere, but the US spends a lot of effort to keep them as ignorant as possible. That’s why they are so easy to manipulate, which is the whole point.}

    Exactly: very well said.

    {…but hardly taught anything. }

    It’s worse than that: they are taught all sorts of bizarro stuff and forced to accept them as true and normal. And the brainwashing starts at the kindergarten level.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  198. Beckow says:
    @Avery

    …they are taught all sorts of bizarro stuff and forced to accept them as true and normal

    I think that’s the key. Especially about Western civilisation there are just completely bizarre narratives (e.g. WWII, or slave trade, etc…) that are construed politically. There is no question that in Europe that is also the case – there is a French, Polish, Russian version of our past – but it happens within a broad context where many other ‘learning’ factors are involved (family, local history, friends, travel, etc…). That is mostly missing in US – so the bizarre, one-sided historical narratives are not balanced by realities.

    US education is also too democratic and that drops most of it to the lowest common denominator level. The shallowness is built into any non-discriminating system.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @AnonFromTN
  199. anon[127] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow

    The lack of actual genetic experience of these issues usually means that they are impatient, ignorant and prone to stupid actions.

    what’s that?

    • Replies: @Beckow
  200. @Miggle

    Even if the “nothing but” is an approximate paraphrase you remind me to be pleased at how much time I have saved by not reading PCR for some years.

  201. Seraphim says:
    @Beckow

    @bizzaro stuff

    That’s indeed the ultimate key. The whole system of ‘education’ in America (which proliferated in other parts of the world) is geared towards creating a passive wad ready to absorb any ‘bizzaro stuff’.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  202. @Seraphim

    Hi Seraphim,

    Let me, who mystically represents a beaten down city school bus driver, sing the thrice defiled A, B, C’s:

    Teach to the test, lay down the paddle, belittle janitors, and let no (whistleblower?) public school teacher write “Letters to Editor” about the reality of students’ aberrant behavior in America’s “education system,” for fear of egotistic parent-driven libel lawsuits against the school administration.

    Thanks, Seraphim…, and uh, the Cherubim too!

  203. anon[385] • Disclaimer says:

    the problem in American schools is that probably half the students are non-white now

    Asians do very well but the curriculum has to be dumbed down for the others, who also have more outbursts and behavioral problems as well

  204. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    Wow, a whole post of useless drivel psychobabble. Let all your minions pray at the alter of your superior intellect and wisdom. How many people is that? Absolutely none? Oh, ok.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  205. CalDre says:
    @EugeneGur

    In the dreams of Ukrainian nationalists only.

    Oh, another boring Russian supremacist. So predictably arrogant and insipid.

    And who would those “civilized” people be, pray?

    The “civilized people” are the people that are civilized. Sorry to write beyond your capacity for comprehension.

    for multiple invasions,

    Yes, so name me some countries, particularly European ones that have existed for more than 1000 years, that have not been invaded. Oy vey. Poor me, pity me. Everyone hates me. Because they are racist! LOL.

    for the destruction of the country in 1941-45

    LOL, your very own rulers did a much better job of destroying “the country” than any foreigners. But yet to this day so many Russians worship and deify them. LOL. Of course, it must be true, Russian cities are the only ones that were destroyed in WW II, or, for that matter, anytime in history. Russia itself, of course, has never harmed a wing on a fly.

    for the robbery of the country’s resources and misery of 1990s

    As I was writing about “your very own rulers”. Always someone else’s fault. Weren’t Yeltsin and the oligarchs all Russians? Oh, let me think really hard … I dunno, I dunno, it’s so difficult, someone help me figure this riddle out!

    Such a victim mentality. Russians and Jews compete hard for this honor: who is the greatest victim of them all?

    for their soldiers on our border targeting our cities

    Yes, lots of targeting. So, which city has been bombed? I lost track, there have been so many. Oh, Chechnya! Grozny! But, you should check, it was Russian soldiers destroying them, I’m pretty sure, do you think maybe it’s true?

    for the sanctions

    Fair point – except it’s not Eastern European neighbors doing that, is it? Oh, right, it was Russia that sanctioned Lithuania, etc. …

    for constant malicious lies

    As opposed to the never-hurt-a-fly always-tell-the-truth Russians. LMFAO.

    for supporting every scumbag against Russia and every terrorist killing our children

    Yes, every single one is being supported. Every single one. Whereas the scumbags – sorry, great, honorable heroes – Russia supports, never harm a wing on a fly, just like Russia. It’s so consistent. Lovely.

    for ever present desire to hurt us whichever way they can think of

    Yes, you are right, nobody has thought of any other way to hurt Russia, than what has been done. And this is of course only for Russia. No other country is hurt, whether someone can think of it, or not. That’s just how the world rolls. So sad.

    founded and directed by John Huges upon the agreement with the government of Alexander II.

    Indeed, as that was the occupying power at the time. Oh, how mysterious the world works! Someone was allowed by the occupying power to do something! That certainly proves beyond any doubt that the occupying power gets credit for it! How else could it be? (Of course, this works only when the occupying power is Russia; in other cases, the rule is reversed. This is due to Russian Exceptionalism, I’m sure you understand.)

    Mariupol was founded in 1778 under Kathrine the Great

    If by “founded” you man “incorporated”, sure. That’s what imperial occupying powers do – they run the show. So, they name things. So what?

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @Beckow
  206. Miggle says:
    @Beckow

    I largely agree, Beckow. But allow me to make a few corrections.

    Henry VIII was far from illiterate. He was the author of at least one book.

    And in that pre-DNA era, centuries before, infidelity on the part of the wife, if known, invariably meant her death. You have only to look at Shakespeare’s tragedy, “Othello, the Moor of Venice”. The heart-broken Othello murders his beloved wife Desdemona in her sleep because he had been deceived by Iago into believing her unfaithful, that she had sex with someone else.

    Shakespeare makes no criticism of that. It is to be expected that the wife would die in such a situation. It’s simply a tragedy. The play is totally non-racist.

    It was more imperative for the king. It was essential that he have a male heir. The bloody turmoil of the Wars of the Roses was of recent memory. It was imperative to have a male heir and imperative that the legitimacy of that heir not be questioned.

    And Henry VIII didn’t invent the Church of England. It had always been there. Little about that church changed, apart from the fact that since the Pope of Rome no longer had jurisdiction in England, therefore appeal from the highest ecclesiastical courts could no longer be to the Pope but had to be to the King or his relevant court.

    It is on record that Henry never interfered with the normal workings of the Church of England. It of its own accord first (at a later time, after his death), first became Calvinist, hence the “39 Articles” that still appear in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, and signed up to the Calvinist Westminster Confession of Faith.

    Later, degeneration set in, and is today total. The Archbishop of Westminster has recently been vocal in his support of a Jewish attack on the New Testament. Why didn’t he keep his mouth shut? And he is pictured in elaborate Romish robes with a tall witch’s hat. And today in a suburb of an Australia city, a suburb called Badwood with a road called Badwood Road running through it, there is an Anglican church called Saint George’s Church, Badwood, and the sign outside says:

    Services
    Sunday
    8:00 am Mass
    9:30 am Solemn Sung Mass
    5:09 pm Evensong & Benediction
    Daily Mass except Monday
    Confessions of Friday after Mass or by appointment

    RECTOR: FR SCOTT MONCRIEFF

    It is impossible to sink lower than that. But that’s the Anglican Church today.

    Presumably the “FR” means Fraudster. At least he admits that.

    A further point is the remarkable similarity between anti-Protestant Papal bulls with their devious propaganda and the present-day American russophobic propaganda. This tells us that the American Empire will never die, that, however discredited, it will for centuries to come be waging war on independent countries. Which in turn seems to tell us it is crucial that mammalian life on the North American continent cease to exist.

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @Miggle
    , @Seraphim
    , @Beckow
  207. Miggle says:
    @Miggle

    Oops! I meant the Archbishop of Canterbury, not Westminster.

    Who is the ignoramus here?

  208. Miggle says:
    @Miggle

    And regarding North American mammalian life, there is an island off the coast of France that the same thing needs to happen to,

  209. Seraphim says:
    @CalDre

    It should be ‘altar’. Another proof that Americans are illiterate.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  210. Seraphim says:
    @Miggle

    “Woe to those who call bad good and good bad, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter” (Isaiah 5:20).
    Think twice before cracking jokes, mate.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Miggle
  211. @Beckow

    US education is also too democratic and that drops most of it to the lowest common denominator level. The shallowness is built into any non-discriminating system.

    I wouldn’t call it “democratic” or “non-discriminating”. In fact, American school system is anything but.

    To counteract inequality, school system must be an equalizer, it must make an effort to educate those kids who can’t get much from their parents. Soviet school system tried to do that. In contrast, the US system aims to make everyone feel good about him/herself, so that only kids whose parents can educate them get something, whereas the rest just spend 12 years getting nowhere. Naturally, this increases inequality.

    As to bizarro stuff, I agree. The US schools and colleges do try to indoctrinate kids, promoting the idea that LGBT (a subset of mental disorders related to sexuality) is normal, America is a democracy, the US stands for peace, and other false notions. Naturally, propaganda works best with ignorant people. The system generates perfect recipients of propaganda, possibly on purpose: dumb and ignorant people are easier to manipulate. The downside is that the elites are also becoming dumb and ignorant (as we can clearly see). This is suicidal for any society.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  212. Beckow says:
    @Miggle

    Thank you for the context, I enjoyed it. I would prefer to preserve and restore the former greatness of the European civilisation – it sometimes seems like a hopeless goal. I am afraid that if it is fully overrun and eventually abandoned (as all current trends indicate), we won’t get one with similar level of advancement for hundreds of years, if ever. But even words like ‘former’, ‘greatness’ and European gets most elites into a fit of predictable mental meltdown.

    I am a protestant myself (Lutheran) and what happened to our tradition is beyond belief. The self-denouncation and a lack of core sense of continuity have reached almost absurd levels. What we have in these institutions in Europe and hundreds, thousands years of thought and design. And it was done by the smartest people among our ancestors. Who throws that away on a whim in 1-2 generations?

    I didn’t know H8 wrote a book, well, live and learn. But throwing him into a bedroom as a teenage boy with a Spanish lady twice his age had to be traumatic. The French Macron fellow seems to enjoy that kid of stuff, but most normal teenagers like H8 would try to get out. And thus history is written…

    • Replies: @annamaria
  213. CalDre says:
    @Seraphim

    I’m usually not a pedantic arsehole that corrects typos, which is a troll specialty. But since you have taken up trolling, as those who have nothing worthwhile to write are wont to do, I will point out not an accidental typo but an ignorant error in your short (and otherwise useless) post: “More proof”, not “Another proof”. Just like it is “more energy” or “more water”, not “another energy” or “another water”. Capiche, oh genius troll?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  214. annamaria says:

    A triumph of the “democracy on the march” and “western values” in the Kaganat of Nuland (former Ukraine): http://thesaker.is/european-union-corruption-case-study-ukraine/

    “Over the past 4 years, since the coup d’etat in Kiev in 2014 orchestrated by the “civilised” West, a “team of reformers” has been at work in Ukraine. They promised to implement so-called “anti-corruption reforms” … But here is where things get interesting. The level of corruption in Ukraine has not decreased!!!! According to independent experts, the virus of corruption has spread even further!!!!

    In fact, corruption has also captured new anti-corruption bodies that were create post 2014, including the “National Agency of Ukraine for finding, tracing and management of assets derived from corruption and other crimes”, also known as ARMA. On paper, it was conceived to combat unscrupulous business, but in practice it works under the protection of officials and has itself become a hotbed of corruption and lawlessness.”

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  215. EugeneGur says:
    @CalDre

    The “civilized people” are the people that are civilized. Sorry to write beyond your capacity for comprehension.

    In my limited comprehension capacity, people are civilized when they behave in a civilized way. Forgive me, my friend, but I do not see that in the West. Unless of course you consider constant lying and double standards civilized.

    LOL, your very own rulers did a much better job of destroying “the country” than any foreigners. But yet to this day so many Russians worship and deify them.

    Well, that is because the Russians know who caused more harm. And we are in the position to know better than you are, don’t you think? Besides, we’ve dealt and will deal with our own rulers. Here we are talking about a not so insignificant contribution of the Western powers. These days, you can observe this contribution in real time.

    The rest of your “arguments” is lovely if not exactly accurate. In essence, you are trying to prove that Russia is no better than the West. Perhaps – but how does it make it worse?

    Such a victim mentality. Russians and Jews compete hard for this honor: who is the greatest victim of them all?

    Not at all, not at all. Most of the time, the Russians beat the crap out of the invaders, which is not conducive to the victim mentality. Just an observation that we might have a score to settle, that is all.

    Indeed, as that was the occupying power at the time.

    Occupying what, exactly? Surely non non-existent Ukraine?

    • Replies: @CalDre
  216. Beckow says:
    @CalDre

    You are too angry, why?

    One simple question: let’s say Russia and all her ‘evils‘ finally disappear. What do you think would happen to Europe if it loses its solid eastern hinterland? Europe is already under enormous demographic pressure from the south and south-east, if you open up the east what do you think would happen? How long before endless South, Central and Eastern Asians (there are 4 billion of them) march through the dis-organized collapsed Russian spaces to Europe?

    Be careful what you wish for, it might not result in what you want. Don’t fool yourself, West is no longer strong enough to demographically take over Russia, and vacuum invites trouble. Also, please refrain from the stupid ‘Russians are asiatic anyway’ nonsense, although your obvious sympathy for the ISIS-Grozny tribe suggests that you just might be too confused to understand any of this.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  217. @annamaria

    What makes you think that fighting corruption was ever one of the real goals of the coup in Ukraine? Washington politburo predictably installed traitorous scum in power in Ukraine for the simple reason that you can’t make an honest person a puppet: you wouldn’t have anything to hold over his/her head. That’s why Washington puppeteers install the most despicable scum everywhere they can. The best description of this is Roosevelt’s phrase about Somosa “but he is our son-of-a-bitch”. Porky and Co are American sons-of-bitches, and that’s exactly why they were chosen by the likes of Nuland and her superiors (“f… the EU” was the only honest statement she made about that coup).

  218. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …To counteract inequality, school system must be an equalizer

    That is in my view a ‘democratic’ instinct, equalizing students always and everywhere leads to lower level of education. The unfortunate American tendency to also pamper stupidity among some classes (we all know the list), makes it much worse. Society always gets more of it rewards – rewarding whining ignorance and right ‘identity’ is indeed an intellectual suicide.

  219. Beckow says:
    @anon

    what’s that?

    How about we write it off as a redundant modifier?

  220. CalDre says:
    @EugeneGur

    Unless of course you consider constant lying and double standards civilized.

    You conflate the “West” – about 1 billion people – with the actions of a few oligarchs. I prefer to refer to it as the Evil Empire. Yes, they do a lot of evil. That does not make the other 1 billion folks that live in the Evil Empire “uncivilized”. And I most certainly never claimed the rulers are civilized – indeed my posting history on Unz, if you were to wade through it, would soundly disprove that notion.

    that is because the Russians know who caused more harm. And we are in the position to know better than you are, don’t you think

    No, I don’t think so. First of all, Russians certainly don’t apply this to others – always claiming to know better than Ukrainians what is Ukraine, and to know better than Americans what is US, and so on and so on. Second, Russia was subject to widespread censorship during the height of the atrocities and for decades thereafter, with the mass criminal Stalin glorified (even though, at some point, his crimes were admitted, to a small extent, and if carefully swept under the carpet). Fact is Stalin killed vastly more Russians than has anyone else, plus the fact that the Nazi invasion was a preemptive strike necessitated by Russian Global Imperial designs (“Global Revolution”), thus I would chalk up all of the WW II dead largely to him (not just that his aggression, oppression and plans caused the war, but that he directly killed a vast number of Russians, whether they were treating from untenable positions in the trenches or by depriving them of all food and energy during the “burnt earth” retreat to Moscow, leaving all of the people to the West without food or fire for the winter, i.e., condemning them all to death).

    But I am sure these things are not taught in Russian schools or discussed in your “free media”, are they?

    we’ve dealt and will deal with our own rulers.

    Yes Lenin’s corpse is till being worshiped in a place of honor, lol! That sure is “dealing with them”! Meanwhile, Russian state media cries like a baby when Ukrainians chop down statutes of that tyrant, and fabricate that others are Nazis out of whole cloth. I’ve also seen the Red Flag marches in Russia, and all the pomp that surrounds them. You’re not fooling anybody, except perhaps yourself.

    Perhaps – but how does it make it worse?

    Surely during Communism it was worse than the West. Now, it is not worse, but also far less powerful. Mainly I react to the Russians here who constantly attack and insult the West but worship every Russian tyrant ever to have existed. And who react, like you and the fool Beckow and many others just in this thread, with condemnation when Russia is ever criticized even to the slightest degree, whether in the present or historically.

    Russians beat the crap out of the invaders, which is not conducive to the victim mentality.

    Nah, Napoleon and Hitler were defeated by the weather, though of course Russia’s failure to lose entirely within a few months allowed that to happen, so Russians get partial credit. Russia “lost” WW I.

    Occupying what, exactly?

    The land and the people. My, you are so focused on political boundaries and naming them, and don’t give a second’s thought to the people. Pretty funny.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @annamaria
  221. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    You are too angry, why?

    Not angry. Just choosing proper words.

    What do you think would happen to Europe if it loses its solid eastern hinterland?

    Not arguing for Russia to disappear. Just sort of tired of the Russian supremacists endlessly posting here with their West-can-do-no-good hatred and Russia-can-do-no-wrong propaganda. Action -> reaction. Of course you critique only the reaction, showing your true colors.

    West is no longer strong enough to demographically take over Russia

    Just read my posting history, I encourage and support an independent Russia. Which is an entirely different issue from putting up with the loud, obnoxious Russian supremacists that try to dominate the debate on Unz.

    please refrain from the stupid ‘Russians are asiatic anyway’

    Oh, do please find me my comment where I wrote that. There’s all kept nice and orderly here on Unz, just click on my username. Which one was it that made this claim?

    your obvious sympathy for the ISIS-Grozny tribe

    That’s so Russian of you, to accuse everyone who does not agree with Russia to be a terrorist. Russia is very good at doing this in Syria too (you can always tell who is a terrorist in Syria, because if Russia killed him, he is a terrorist!, lol). Sorry, the vast majority of Chechens want independence. Which is the reason Russia responded to the independence requests in the early 1990s with war instead of a referendum. A fact Russian apologists for that horrific aggressive war studiously ignore, whilst they constantly cheer on the Crimean referendum. More double standards by Russian supremacists. Seems you are in this club.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  222. Beckow says:
    @CalDre

    I am not in a ‘club’, and I am not a Russian. I do have ‘supremacist’ tendencies sometimes, but they are more local to Visegrad 4 and Central Europe. I will try to do better, but the Christmas season is so nice here, one gets carried away.

    I always counter Crimea with Kosovo – the original Western sin. I have never heard even remotely coherent response. Regarding Chechnia: wasn’t there a de facto independence in the 90′s, but with Russia paying the salaries and pensions, while Chechens raided surrounding districts? I am not an expert, but it certainly wasn’t as one-sided as you write. But my comparison is with Kosovo. If you have no answer to what West did in Kosovo (bomb a sovereign country to create a new ethnic state), than I simply cannot take your arguments about Crimea seriously.

    Not arguing for Russia to disappear

    Maybe, but your ‘strong words’ display a deep negative emotion (hatred?) for anything Russian. You claim that it is ‘reaction’ to others, that you are ‘tired’ of people not seeing the evil Russian ways. I see it all, and there is substantially more anti-Russian hysteria than views defending Russia – this in the West in general. Unz is a more thoughtful platform and here indeed there is a lot more balance. But most people respond in the context of the overall Western media demonization – Unz is a small sandbox that hardly balances the overall bias.

    You used some strong words earlier, there is no such thing as justifying it by saying that ‘others’ also do it, or that you ‘were tired’. It is only natural that others will point it out to you. You don’t seem to think stuff through very well, am I detecting possibly a US based education?

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @Avery
  223. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    I always counter Crimea with Kosovo – the original Western sin.

    So “West” was sinless prior to 1999? Or no country seceded from another before then?

    wasn’t there a de facto independence in the 90′s, but with Russia paying the salaries and pensions, while Chechens raided surrounding districts?

    I don’t know the details of government salaries and pensions, but there was never a period of relative self-rule, which is still different from independence (e.g. payment of taxes; military forces; currencies; etc.). But yes, there was a moderate size group of Chechen radicals/outlaws (≈ 1,000), not supported by the government, who invaded Dagestan (and were quickly routed – within one day IIRC), and Putin used that as an excuse to bomb Grozny into the stone age.

    it certainly wasn’t as one-sided as you write.

    Sure it was, and it was vastly, VASTLY more brutal than anything the so-called “UkroNazis” ever did to Donetsk or Lugansk.

    bomb a sovereign country to create a new ethnic state

    This has happened countless times in history – intervening in another country’s internal affairs (Russia, of course, being one of the leading experts in this field). In this case it was on the quite dubious grounds of “humanitarian intervention”. On the other hand, nothing really had happened in Crimea. There was some hoopla about some bus being stopped in other parts of Ukraine with Crimeans on it, but it was an extremely minor non-event. Ukraine, in particular, was not bombing Crimea at the time of the Russian intervention, as Serbia was bombing Kosovo (rightly or wrongly, in either case). In Serbia’s case, the immediate triggers were the Račak massacre and Serbia’s unwillingness to permit peacekeepers to separate the “at-war” parties. By contrast, Crimeans were not at war with the rest of Ukraine when Russia intervened.

    In any case, you are making the wrong comparison. I am asking: why does Crimea get a referendum but not Chechnya? It’s not too late to hold one there now. In Dagestan too. (BTW, contrary to your base assumption, I don’t object to Crimean independence, I am asking you: how can you support Crimean referendum but not one in Chechnya and Dagestan? Because a lot of oppressed minorities in the Russian Empire would withdraw? lol, yes, it’s not as popular as the Muscovites would have us believe.)

    your ‘strong words’ display a deep negative emotion (hatred?) for anything Russian.

    I suppose to a Russian supremacist they would. The hatred on Unz, though, is far more directed at US and the West. Have you commented on that too? Or are you just, again, playing the Russian supremacist, with your double standards? Your words evince hatred of US. Do you hate US? Do you hate all Americans?

    Unz is a more thoughtful platform and here indeed there is a lot more balance.

    LOL, from a Russian supremacist perspective, I am sure that’s true.

    You don’t seem to think stuff through very well

    Your failure or inability to comprehend is not my failure to think things through.

    I detecting possibly a US based education?

    Indeed, you are a hateful anti-American. Well aren’t you special?

    • Replies: @Beckow
  224. Avery says:
    @Beckow

    {….wasn’t there a de facto independence in the 90′s,….}

    After the 1st Chechnya war (1994-1996), which Russia – under the “leadership” (sic) of drunkard Yeltsin and incompetent/corrupt Russian generals – ignominiously lost, Chechen Islamist rebels gained de-facto independence. They promptly announced their ultimate goal of creating an Islamic Caucasus Emirate and started invading neighboring Southern Russian republics, still part of RF, e.g. Dagestan (in 1999). At that point Moscow decided to eradicate the foreign financed and supported* Islamist terrorist infestation from the region, and after throwing out the Islamist invaders from Dagestan, went into Chechnya.

    And unlike the 1st war, where raw 18-20 year old Russian recruits from the Russian steppes were sent to fight 25-30 year old tough Chechen mountain warriors, who had been fighting in the mountains all their adult lives, and were slaughtered, Putin sent in professional fighters (“contractniki”), and also convinced moderate Chechen clans to fight the radical Islamist Chechens, which the latter did ferociously.

    Today moderate Chechens run Chechnya by themselves and Moscow stays away as long as Wahhabist Islamists are eradicated. As a gesture to moderate Chechens, aside from massively rebuilding Grozny, Kremlin built a new mosque, considered one of the largest in all of Russia.

    _______________________
    * KSA, Turkey, CIA, MI6,…..

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @CalDre
  225. Beckow says:
    @CalDre

    Kosovo was the first event of that nature in my generation – if there were similar bombing attacks to force independence previous to that, I don’t recall them, give me an example (maybe Turkey in Cyprus). But Kosovo was blatant, it was open, it is still celebrated, and it relied on a huge amount of lies, propaganda and half-truhs. Its recency and visibility established it as a precedent. If 2 million Albanians in Kosovo have a right to self-determination, why wouldn’t 2 million Russians in Crimea (both places have minorities).

    Why do Crimeans have to wait until they are attacked? Why would that make it better?

    Chechen radicals/outlaws (≈ 1,000), not supported by the government, who invaded Dagestan

    There is a lot wrong with that description: they did it more than once, they were linked with the government in Grozny, and they killed quite a few civilians. I am trying to visualize a similar scenario with UK, US, or Spain – I suspect what happened to Grozny afterwards was small change compared what would happen to anyone trying it in the West.

    You are partially right about the legal right to self-determination, there is an inconsistency there. But the fault lies again with the West and the precedent they established in Kosovo – basically if one is strong enough (like Nato in Kosovo, Turkey in Cyprus, or Russia in Crimea) they get to do it. If they are not, they don’t. Tough, but what is good for the goose, must be good for the gander.

    Pointing out that one’s educational system is not very good and is full of biases is not ‘hateful’. It is an observation based on evidence. Counter it with evidence not by name-calling. I also suspect that many of the areas where I think US education is deficient – identity politics obsessions, PC vocabulary, low level math skills, teaching for ‘testing’ – you might actually agree.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  226. peterAUS says:
    @Avery

    Actually, re:

    ….where raw 18-20 year old Russian recruits from the Russian steppes were sent to fight 25-30 year old tough Chechen mountain warriors, who had been fighting in the mountains all their adult lives, and were slaughtered, Putin sent in professional fighters (“contractniki”)….

    that’s a huge oversimplification.

    The problem with the First Chechen War weren’t “8-20 year old Russian recruits”, but deeply rotten Soviet style leadership, from company straight to Kremlin. Getting worse with going up.
    The leadership then and there made every conceivable error and mistake possible….and more.

    As for the second, true, all that got much better but, still, not as good as it could’ve been.

    The problem was, again, small unit leadership. Not so much of those guys being bad (squad and platoon leaders), no, it’s about guys above them (from battalion up) not being on the “level” with them.

    Two things: two way trust and coordination. Fundamental in MOUT/FIBUA. Like battle for Grozny.

    That’s past.

    What could be interesting, for some, is, how good Russians are at it now?

  227. Seraphim says:
    @CalDre

    It is ‘another’ proof, because there are many others.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  228. CalDre says:
    @Seraphim

    So now you are tripling down on ignorant/stupid, after making your troll comment. “Another” is an adjective that applies to quantifiable objects (e.g., “another apple”), whereas “more” in an adjective that applies to non-quantifiable objects (e.g., “more water” – but, compare, “another liter of water”).

    “Proof” in your usage was non-quantifiable, hence the proper usage (while factually untrue) would have been “more proof”. There are cases where “another” would be appropriate, such as “another witness as proof”. Or in the case where “proof” refers to the “test” meaning (“another proof of the theorem”), versus your usage, which was “sufficient evidence to establish a fact”.

    No charge for your English lesson, though, I imagine, you will still find a way to insist on being wrong, lol.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  229. CalDre says:
    @Avery

    They promptly announced their ultimate goal of creating an Islamic Caucasus Emirate

    Who is “they”? This was Doku Umarov; others disagreed and most importantly the (weak) government disagreed. Weak because of the brutal war Russia fought against Chechnya to deny it it’s independence. As I said earlier, if Russia had simply permitted Chechnya to have a referendum, the matter could have been settled peacefully. But, instead, it brought war, death and destruction, which empowered the radicals and weakened the moderates (as such events are wont to do, everywhere).

    started invading neighboring Southern Russian republics, still part of RF, e.g. Dagestan (in 1999).

    Not republics, one republic, Dagestan, by one group of radicals, who were promptly defeated (within a day) by Dagestanis themselves and the threat eliminated. Hence there was no reason to start another war against Chechnya on that basis. Obviously the war was meant to crush Chechyan independence, with Putin taking over where Yeltsin had failed. Note that Putin started the second war within a month of being appointed dictator (i.e., he had not yet been elected and hence had no democratic mandate, making him a dictator, in that case at least).

    At that point Moscow decided to eradicate the foreign financed and supported* Islamist terrorist infestation from the region

    Yes, that is nice propaganda, but is it true? No. There were some foreign fighters, but under 1,000. This was nothing like the Syrian situation, where foreign fighters dominate. But no doubt some Afghanis, who had also fought against Russia and still bore grudges, helped in the fighting. Similar to, say, some Russians help in DNR and LNR (presumably there would be more such Russians helping if those who had fought Nazis were still around; in Afghanistan’s case, those who had fought Russia were still around, as the Soviet Afghan war ended only 5 years before the First Chechen War).

    What Putin decided to eradicate was any idea of independence for any peoples subjugated by the Russian Empire. He meant to keep it intact. Ukraine, of course, does not get the same right. Of course not. Double standards. Ukraine fighting “Russian terrorists” (and in this case it is quite easy to prove, and has been proven, that not just Russian militia, but Russian service personnel, have fought against Ukraine) of course is not allowed – that is “evil” and “Nazi”. LOL. So many double standards, in such little time.

    But foreign fighters in Chechnya … sure. Where is the proof? All the pictures of the dead foreign fighters? It’s not hard to tell an Arab or Afghani from a Chechen, so this should be easy to prove.

    As a gesture to moderate Chechens

    Fact is, after killing about 1/4th of the Chechen population (you know, in Chechnya, everyone’s a terrorist!), Russia was still not going to win the war, so they sued for peace with Ramzan Kadyrov. The moderates would have been in power from 1991 on if Russia had just agreed to their independence and had not started the brutal war against Chechnya. And some 100,000s Russian lives would not have been lost. But, nope, no independence referendum was offered.

    • Replies: @Avery
  230. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    Kosovo was the first event of that nature in my generation – if there were similar bombing attacks to force independence previous to that, I don’t recall them, give me an example (maybe Turkey in Cyprus).

    I can’t go through the whole list but the entire Balkans area – former Yugoslavia – was split up, largely due to war.

    South Sudan was formed in 2011 after many years of war.

    But Kosovo was blatant, it was open, it is still celebrated, and it relied on a huge amount of lies, propaganda and half-truhs.

    Wasn’t that blatant: NATO never bombed with the banner that Kosovo should be independent. NATO bombed to insert peacekeepers. Kosovo itself declared independence afterward. Serbia has in large part recognized this independence under the Brussels Agreement.

    And it’s hardly “celebrated” – certainly nowhere near the degree Russians celebrate Crimea’s “independence” (lol).

    As to lies, propaganda and half-truths – plenty of that in Crimea as well. (Loved those posters all over Crimea after Russian “green men” (who allegedly weren’t Russian, lol) kicked out the Ukrainians and before the vote conflating Kiev with Nazis, sure, that was 100% truth, lol.)

    If 2 million Albanians in Kosovo have a right to self-determination, why wouldn’t 2 million Russians in Crimea (both places have minorities).

    You are being thick-headed. I don’t object to Crimean independence (or Kosovan independence). The question for you is rather: why shouldn’t 1 million Chechens have a right to self-determination? Why must they serve the Muscovites, as all of Russia must do?

    Why do Crimeans have to wait until they are attacked?

    Again, if there is no need to be attacked (though Kosovans were, so your analogy fails), why couldn’t Chechnya declare independence in 1991, when it tried, but was refused, and eventually brutally attacked one year later for not wanting to live under Moscow’s boot?

    they did it more than once

    Please define “they” and provide dates and places where it happened “more than once”. This should be easy, no?

    they were linked with the government in Grozny

    LOL, yes, I am sure in a small country like Chechnya almost everyone can be linked to any other in some way. I am sure you can link some of them to Putin too. So many “links”, lol. Please, describe these “links” and, more importantly, describe the material support provided by the Chechen government to the radicals. What happened, in fact, was the invasion was spearheaded by warlords Shamil Basayev and Ibn al-Khattab, who were also fighting the Chechen government. Thus, the “link” of which you speak is that they were enemies in a civil war. Maskhadov, then the Chechen President, had opposed this incursion and offered to cooperate with Russia to take down the warlords. Moscow refused.

    small change compared what would happen to anyone trying it in the West

    You mean if some US militia from Texas were to invade Mexico, that the US military’s response would be to bomb Texas into the stone age? No, don’t think so, that’s a very Russian reaction.

    the precedent they established in Kosovo

    No precedent was established by “the West”. It was simply another military interference, of which there are countless ones in history, including by Russia. The only “precedent” there was Serbia taking the case to the Int’l Court of Justice .. and losing. Based on sound principles, I happen to agree with the court’s conclusion (international law does not prohibit a region seceding from a country).

    It is an observation based on evidence

    Well it was more hateful than anything I wrote about Russia, which was also all facts, and you had to go into your “your’re so angry” and “why so hateful” lame attacks against me. You basically wrote all Americans are stupid and ignorant, I wrote nothing like that about Russians, ever. So look in the mirror, bud, all the hate comes from there.

    you might actually agree

    I do have issues with US education. But don’t pretend Europeans or Russians are educated better. And again I would never claim someone is ignorant or stupid because they are Russian or European, as you did. You really think all Russians and all Europeans think everything through? It was just your lame way both to attack me personally (ad hominem) and to disparage America (and using the “logic” you used against me, because you hate America).

    • Replies: @Beckow
  231. Seraphim says:
    @CalDre

    How is it not quantifiable?
    “According to data from the 2014 U.S. Census Bureau, 21 percent — or nearly 60,000 — of working age adults in the city lack a high school diploma. At the same time, 19 percent of adults cannot read a newspaper, much less complete a job application, according to the National Center for Education Statistics”.
    “Approximately 32 million adults in the United States can’t read, according to the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development found that 50 percent of U.S. adults can’t read a book written at an eighth-grade level”.
    @The Washington Post: “Hiding in plain sight: The adult literacy crisis”, by Valerie Strauss, November 1, 2016.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  232. Beckow says:
    @CalDre

    …NATO never bombed with the banner that Kosovo should be independent. NATO bombed to insert peacekeepers. Kosovo itself declared independence afterward.

    Holy sh..t, you really cannot be that dense, or can you? Do you also believe that when you cover up a bottle of beer in your car it isn’t there? This goes back to basic logic and – frankly – education. Your problem is that you seem to think that by inserting a few words and pretending that there is some ‘process’, that by doing that you change reality. You don’t, it is what it is. Kosovo was excactly what said: an armed attack on a defenseless country to separate its province, around 1,500 Serb civilians were blown to smithereens. And it was celebrated.

    After that don’t talk to us about ‘values’, or hypocrisy, or try to downplay what Nato did. As I said it was the original sin, it was evil, and now you have to live with the consequences.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @CalDre
  233. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow

    ….Holy sh..t, you really cannot be that dense, or can you?…

    Hahaha…..
    Apologies. It’s just funny. Was actually waiting for something of the sort. Shame on me.

    A good comic relief is good to have here every now and then. Even with heavy topics as bombing, death and destruction.

    More to come I am sure.

    As for “the original sin”, apart from already said here, there was a case of quite effective Internet censorship. For example , certain Web sites being shut down.
    Hehe…bad…bad Serbs…so nobody really complained.
    Funny, a?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  234. CalDre says:
    @Seraphim

    One last try: “proof” is not quantifiable. As in: you cannot not have X proofs of something (unless you are using the “test” meaning of proof, like a mathematical proof, which you clearly were not).

    Now you have quadrupled down on stupid. Apparently your brain lacks the capacity to understand simple linguistic concepts, sorry, there is nothing I can do to help you, generally by third grade people can understand these things, but may I suggest you stop trying to nitpick typos when you yourself are fundamentally stupid?

  235. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    This goes back to basic logic and – frankly – education.

    No, it goes back to your general hatred and Russian supremacism.

    Your problem is that you seem to think that by inserting a few words and pretending that there is some ‘process’, that by doing that you change reality.

    Actually the problem is you believe your unproven, unsubstantiated conspiracy theories are absolute truth. All the while being the hateful know-nothing supremacist you are.

    So, please show this proof that NATO got involved in order to make Kosovo an independent state, rather than to stop Serbians’ attacks on Albanians. Or maybe “another proof” of that, lol. You don’t have any? But you claimed it was “blatant”, “open” and “celebrated”. So now it isn’t? Oh, I see, so your speculation is truth and anyone who doesn’t believe your speculation is … lacking in education? Hahahahahaha!

    What is clear that Russia’s “green men”, which it denied were Russian (proving forever what complete liars Russia is, a country never to be trusted as they lie “blatantly” and “openly” and “celebrate” their lies and deception), went in to grasp Crimea from Ukraine. And spread vast amounts of lies and propaganda to browbeat and terrorize Crimeans into voting to secede (making obviously false claims that Kiev was Nazis and going to kill all Russians, relying on the decades of anti-Nazi propaganda to which Crimeans were subjected under totalitarian rule). All of that is extremely clear, and does not require any “oh I, an utter obnoxious moron, speculate so, so it is incontrovertibly true”.

    Tell me, moon beam, did NATO control the Kosovo parliament and force the legislators at gunpoint to vote for secession? LOL, of course not, those were the (“not Russian”) “green men”.

    Kosovo was excactly what said: an armed attack on a defenseless country to separate its province, around 1,500 Serb civilians were blown to smithereens.

    Serbia wasn’t defenseless, but Chechnya sure was. Because several centuries ago Russians conquered the Chechens and has oppressed them ever since. Rather than give them the freedom they have sought for centuries, Russia decided to murder 1/4th of the entire Chechen population. The greatest act of genocide since WW II, excluding Rawanda. Just bombing civilians in cities. Razing one city after another. Utter destruction. Of its “own people” – a Russian specialty (though they are also quite good at razing other nation’s people – what sets Russia apart is the exuberant enthusiasm with which it mass murders its own people).

    As I said it was the original sin, it was evil, and now you have to live with the consequences.

    On the sale of evil it was quite low. A tiny blip compared to the genocide in Chechnya of Russia’s own people, for no reason other than that they wanted to be free of the Moscow boot after centuries of abject oppression. That’ll teach anyone to break free of the Muscovite tyranny! All of Russia must slavishly (haha, nice pun, eh?) serve selfish, arrogant, evil, murderous Muscovite oligarchs in perpetuity – or die!

    • Replies: @Beckow
  236. Miggle says:
    @Seraphim

    “Woe to those who call bad good and good bad, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter” (Isaiah 5:20).
    Think twice before cracking jokes, mate.

    Would you care to be a little more specific?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  237. Seraphim says:
    @Miggle

    Where on the earth of Oz is ‘Badwood’?

    • Replies: @Miggle
  238. Seraphim says:
    @Miggle

    Paraphrasing the unforgettable Basil Fawlty: “Don’t mention the Jews”.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  239. Robjil says:
    @peterAUS

    Chimpanzeeism is throwing everything around reckless without pity for humanity. Chimpanzeeism is denying a deep no-boundaries investigation of events. Since 1913, this has been the case on a grand scale in the west and in the east under communism. If Chimpanzeeism continues humanity will descend down to the chimpanzee level. Chimpanzees ride on tricycles and take bananas from others. Zemurray’s creation of Banana republics in Central America is a good example of this in practice. The US continues Zemurray’s games in Central America. Chimpanzeeism is “take take”. Humanity rides on bicycles and “gives gives”. This take take Chimpanzeeism has to end. Humanity wants to advance.
    Poroshenko is a classic example of a western Chimpanzee puppet state. His government throws things around recklessly without pity for humanity. Poro’s government has shelled the civilians of Donbass, killed thousands, injured thousands, and destroyed thousands of homes. This is Chimpanzee behavior and not human compassionate behavior.
    The west has been Chimpanzeezing on a grand scale after the fall of the Berlin wall. Kosovo as noted, was a huge western Chimpanzee attack. Bombing civilians with uranium bombs- television station, trains with people in them, people on bridges, Chinese embassy, hospitals is all Chimpanzee behavior and not Compassionate adult human behavior. These uranium bombs poisoned the soils all over Serbia and Kosovo. The US is still poisoning the soils of all places it bombs all over the world. Syria and Iraq are full of uranium poisoned soils now from the US with hate – Chimpanzee style.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  240. Miggle says:
    @Seraphim

    Where on the earth of Oz is ‘Badwood’?

    What? Your search for Badwood failed? Strange!

    But there were other names in my comment:

    RECTOR: FR SCOTT MONCRIEFF

    So, do a search for “Scott Moncrieff Anglican”, and the name “Badwood” will pop up, won’t it?

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @Seraphim
  241. Miggle says:
    @Seraphim

    Paraphrasing the unforgettable Basil Fawlty: “Don’t mention the Jews”.

    Who’s brought the subject up now? I wrote:

    The Archbishop of [Canterbury] has recently been vocal in his support of a Jewish attack on the New Testament. Why didn’t he keep his mouth shut?

    Why didn’t you keep your mouth shut? Why more Jewish aggression? I’m happy to expand on the subject of Jewish hatred of Christians, and determination to exterminate them all, if you like. Is that what you want?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  242. Beckow says:
    @CalDre

    Clearly there isn’t enough good will (and civility) between us to have a rational discussion. You do seem really angry about something. To me your points look defensive – almost desperate – constant attempts to call similar events by different terms.

    My view is that actual power locally in each conflict determines the outcome – and that Western pretend ‘virtues and values‘ game has run its course. It has been the West’s short-sightednes, starting with Nato’s brutal, murderous attack on Serbia in 1999, that has largely created this situation. All the unfortunate events that followed (Iraq, Chechnya, Ukraine, Syria…) had a precedent in what was unquestionably an illegal, brutal attack on an independent country in Europe to force it to let go off a separatist province.

    It was done openly, the main actors boasted about it: look up Mad. Allbrigt, Tony Blair, Joshka ‘the original little green man’ Fischer, and many others. The proof is right there, even on the extremely politicised Wiki – there was an ultimatum in Rambouillet, staged provocation, worse bombing since WWII, thousands of Serb civilians killed, and the a declaration of independence. (No referendum like in Crimea by the way.) Media glowed with happiness about the ‘new world’ where ‘human rights’ could be used to justify mass murder of one’s enemies. Clintons-Blairs and assorted liberal globalist scum were literally giddy with excitement.

    You call that a ‘conspiracy’ as if saying something stupid can make reality go away. You are right that celebration of the Kosovo precedent has subsided in the last few years. I run into Westerners (up in the hierarchy) who say in private that it was a mistake and whisper ‘let it go’. Nobody has lately defended it in public. West is trying to ‘memory hole’ the whole Kosovo event.

    It doesn’t work that way. It happened, it cannot be undone. When you complain about others not taking your belly-aching about your favorite suffering groups seriously, remember the Kosovo precedent. It changed everything, it definitely changed the way Russia acts. We are living with the consequences and we are only at the beginning phase. This will get much, much worse. Those are the fruits of West not policing its own idiots in the late 90′s. (And still not policing them.)

    My last point is that I am by no means certain Chechens (or any other group inside Russia) would vote today for independence. But I am pretty certain that they will not get that opportunity, they are too weak, 1 million against 150 million, and as Kosovo established might makes right and all else be damned.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @AnonFromTN
    , @CalDre
    , @CalDre
  243. Avery says:
    @CalDre

    {And some 100,000s Russian lives would not have been lost.}

    No “100,000″ Russians’ lives were lost in Chechnya.
    First Chechen war official KIA was ~3,000 Russian troops.
    Mothers groups’ estimate was ~14,000 Russian troops KIA, missing, etc.
    Second Chechen Gov war losses were ~7,000 including local Chechen police, security personnel, etc.
    At most RF government and allies lost ~20K-22K KIA, using the mother groups’ very high estimate.
    The more realistic number would be somewhere between government figures and mothers’ numbers.

    Your irrational, emotional claim that “100K Russian lives were lost” (paraphrase) shows none of your other assertions in your posts can be taken seriously. You are just regurgitating anti-Russian, pro-Islamist disinformation and propaganda.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  244. EugeneGur says:
    @CalDre

    First of all, Russians certainly don’t apply this to others – always claiming to know better than Ukrainians what is Ukraine, and to know better than Americans what is US, and so on and so on.

    Sure, the Russians are barbarians but you are not. So, why are you behaving like those uncivilized savages telling us how we lived, who we worship, or what we think? Perhaps, you as a civilized person you are should admit that we do know something about our lives that you don’t since you haven’t lived through those times?

    Fact is Stalin killed vastly more Russians than has anyone else, plus the fact that the Nazi invasion was a preemptive strike necessitated by Russian Global Imperial designs (“Global Revolution”), thus I would chalk up all of the WW II dead largely to him

    Sure thing – we starved ourselves, bombed ourselves, shot ourselves, and the Nazis were there just for a walk in the park never intending to hurt anybody white as the lilies. What you are saying is obscene. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  245. Miggle says:
    @Miggle

    Oops! I see what you mean, Seraphim. Yes, I’m calling Good, Bad in that case. You win.

  246. Avery says:
    @Beckow

    {….by no means certain Chechens (or any other group inside Russia) would vote today for independence. But I am pretty certain that they will not get that opportunity, they are too weak,}

    No country like Chechnya situated where it is can possibly be independent.
    Even if Russia withdraws, Chechnya will immediately come under the control of KSA+Turkey+NATO. It will not be allowed to remain independent and neural by the West.
    Then Russia would have to come back, as a foreign power, to cleanup the base of radical Islamist terrorism that it will become as soon as RF leaves.

    The goal of these people and their financiers and handlers is creation of a Wahhabist Islamistan in all of Caucasus.

    How many people know this little factoid:
    In 1988-1994 there was a war of liberation in Artsakh (aka Nagorno-Karabagh).
    It was not a religious war per se, but here is the factoid. Infamous Chechen commander Shamil Basayev brought his volunteer battalion of tough Chechen fighters to fight on somebody else’s land (Armenians’ land) in the name of Islam. Azerbaijani government had hired 1,000s of Islamist mercenaries (mainly Afghan Muj), but Chechens were all volunteers.

    Now: why were Chechens fighting in Artsakh – not in Chechnya – to kill Armenians who had done nothing to them?

    Postscript: Bashaev left Artsakh* after he figured out that this war was not a war for Islam, and that Azerbaijanis were corrupt to the core.

    ______________
    * Bashaev’s battalion was defeated by the Armenian ARF battalion at the famous battle for Liberation of Shushi (1992). Bashaev has a short vid on Youtube (in Russian) where he heaps scorn on cowardly Azerbaijani forces, who fled as soon as the battle began. Chechens were the last to leave, as Armenians were closing in from all sides.

  247. @Beckow

    You are right in what you say but wrong it trying to make that person see reason: nobody is as blind as someone who refuses to see.

    In its hubris after 1991 the Empire totally destroyed whatever passed for the international law. The only thing that remains now is the law of the jungle, “might makes right”. Now the Empire sheds crocodile tears over the demise of the international law. This performance is as convincing as the tears shed by the murderer at the funeral of the victim.

    Kosovo was arguably the first blatant violation of whatever rules existed before: naked aggression against a sovereign country that resulted in thousands of civilian deaths and the establishment of a breakaway mafia state. Of course, there was no referendum in Kosovo. What’s more, about a third of its population has already run away from that “paradise”. However, Kosovo was not the only blatant violation of the international rules. Brutal aggression and occupation of Iraq by the Empire (with the “coalition of the willing”; Hitler should have coined that term in 1939, it would be a perfect fit for what he and his sidekicks did in Europe), aggression and occupation of Afghanistan, destruction of Libya, attempted destruction of Syria, wholesale slaughter in Yemen, etc. are all against the rules that existed when there was a balance between two bandits: the Empire and the USSR, when it was assumed that you need a UN resolution to attack a country.

    Now the West is tasting its own medicine and does not like it. Tough luck. Life is irreversible, what’s done is done and cannot be undone.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  248. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …Life is irreversible, what’s done is done and cannot be undone

    I like that.

    I agree that trying to discuss any of this with the ones ‘who don’t want to see‘ seems pointless. And yet my understanding of this forum is that it is about seeking the truth, describing reality as it is, and not limiting any views. All our personal biases and foibles are secondary. Maybe sometimes an argument will stick, maybe not, but alternatives are worse.

    Kosovo preceded all later disasters (Iraq, Syria, Ukraine,…) and it in a very pure form established a formula that was both evil, hypocritical, and also ultimately doomed to failure. The lying at the heart of the Kosovo event, the brutality, and the shallow dismissive attitude towards the ‘others‘ has been with us since then. In my view if the West doesn’t address rationally this original sin, they will not be able to handle the current crisis and what is coming their way.

    Middle Easterners today bitterly complain about their treatment by the West; Turks, Arabs, Persians. The angry ‘Caldre’ above is probably driven by some ethnic grievance and has obvious sympathies for some part of the Moslem complaint spectrum (that spectrum ends with the likes of Basayev and ISIS, Caldre is far short of it, but he is in an uncomfortable proximity). All of these people – all of them – were enthusiastically lined up in support of Nato when it attacked Serbia, they danced in the streets, they sent volunteers. Then Nato attacked them, even harder than the Serbs, but somehow it never occurs to them that what goes around, comes around, that there is a price to pay for blatant breaking of international laws and norms (as Nato did in Kosovo). I have very little sympathy for them.

    You cannot have a universal ‘values’ system that at the same time ranks people by their ethnic group. What was catastrophic in Serbia-Kosovo was the clear display of a favoritism and a hierarchy of ethnic groups: Serbs at the bottom (also the Russians) with no rights, and a graduated hierarchy all the way to the most favoured groups that run the core West. It just doesn’t work – people know when they are not liked, and all the words and excuses amount to nothing. Thus the system collapsed and turned back to might is right quasi-tribal power struggle. Maybe it was inevitable, but West literally speeded up the process by its hubris.

  249. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    Poro’s government has shelled the civilians of Donbass, killed thousands, injured thousands, and destroyed thousands of homes. This is Chimpanzee behavior and not human compassionate behavior.

    Putin’s government has shelled the civilians of Chechnya, killed hundred thousands, injured hundred thousands, and destroyed entire cities. This is Chimpanzee behavior and not human compassion behavior.

    Correct?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  250. CalDre says:
    @Avery

    Like many words, “Russian” has many meanings. In this case I was referring to Russian citizens, a/k/a Russians, even if they are Chechen. Though the number should have been 190,000, to include all the losses (about 160,000 Chechens and about 30,000 ethnic Russians), that was a typo.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Melotte 22
  251. CalDre says:
    @EugeneGur

    Sure, the Russians are barbarians but you are not.

    Sorry, on this site the double standards are firmly held by you and your comrades. Never claimed what you suggest, but on occasion I do point out the utter hypocrisy of the US-demonizing, Russia-worshiping UNZ crowd.

    why are you behaving like those uncivilized savages telling us how we lived, who we worship, or what we think

    Wow, are you really that stupid? I never claimed members of one country cannot critique another country. It is you fucking Russians who always raise this idiot point. I was merely pointing out that you fucking UNZ Russians always think you know better about other countries than citizens of that country (who all have “poor education” and suffer from “propaganda”) while you tell others nobody can know anything about Russia other than Russians (because you “lived through those times”, lol). Can that sink into your fucking head?

    a civilized person you are should admit that we do know something about our lives that you don’t since you haven’t lived through those times

    So tell me more. How old are you? Did you live through the Bolshevik Revolution? Were you in the upper circles? Did you also live in Ukraine at that time? Did you live in Ukraine during Catherine the Great? WTF are you talking about? Have you lost your marbles? You are not here as a witness of all Russian historical events in all places throughout Russian history, you are just repeating the propaganda and “education” you were fed. I am not writing about your sister or your mother, I am writing about Chechen War and history of Ukraine and other things you know nothing about from first hand experience. You don’t know what happened any more than anyone else. So STFU.

    Meanwhile, this very same “lived through it” argument doesn’t apply to Ukrainians who live in Ukraine, b/c to listen to arrogant, dumb-as-rocks Russian assholes, Ukraine doesn’t exist, so Ukrainians don’t exist. Right.

    Sure thing – we starved ourselves, bombed ourselves, shot ourselves

    Indeed. But in fairness it was different people doing it. I.e., one group was stealing food from another group that starved as a result; one group shot another group in the back as they were retreating; etc. Oh, and dare I mention it, there was also a Civil War where lots of people were shot – you might have read about it, October Revolution or something like that. Also the Holodomor, Red Terror, I could go on, but I have other things to do.

    What you are saying is obscene. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    What is obscene is Russian lies placed all over this board and UNZ about Ukrainians, Chechens and other things. Your “offense” is ridiculous. You are competing with Jews now for that honor (“most easily offended”), together with “greatest victims in history”, lol. Never claimed Nazis didn’t kill lots of Russians (or that Russians didn’t kill lots of Germans), but the fact is Russians killed even more Russians than Nazis did. That’s just a fact. Yet you revere the Russian “leaders” who did that, but hate the Nazis. This is something you should be ashamed of.

  252. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    Clearly there isn’t enough good will (and civility) between us to have a rational discussion.

    Perhaps it is because in your first post you wrote to me, you insulted me from start to end. I treat others how they treat me. You are rude, I am rude; you are nice, I am nice. I much prefer to debate the merits, though.

    It is you that is angry, and hateful. About your life, your family, your wife/husband? I don’t know, don’t really care either, lol.

    starting with Nato’s brutal, murderous attack on Serbia in 1999

    Nobody cares about that small blip in history anymore. Not even Serbians, who have voted to join EU (who were heavily involved in the bombing) and even 77% of Serbians favor joining NATO. Of course, we do not see 77% of Ukrainians favor joining Russian military alliance or economic alliance. You’re all butt-hurt about facts and reality, is that why you are so angry and hateful?

    the main actors boasted about it: look up Mad. Allbrigt, Tony Blair, Joshka ‘the original little green man’ Fischer, and many others

    I know plenty about that conflict but I’m not doing your research for you, esp. when I am extremely doubtful any evidence you claim actually exists. So please show me where NATO spoke about Kosovo secession being the reason for their involvement. I can find references to atrocities and the war and Serbia’s failure to permit peacekeepers (and I am happy to provide links to back this up if you ask, because, unlike you, I stand behind my claims, not fabricate them).

    worse bombing since WWII

    Not by any stretch of the imagination; only the worst bombing in Europe since then (do not forget Korean War and Vietnam War). And like I said, Serbians are over it, and a vast majority would love to join their bombers in the EU and NATO.

    ‘human rights’ could be used to justify mass murder of one’s enemies

    That is exaggerated. Serbia could have easily avoided the war by agreeing to peacekeepers. (I strongly opposed the Yugoslav War, even protested in the street against it, but you are not painting an honest picture, in fact, it is lie after lie after lie.)

    (No referendum like in Crimea by the way.)

    As if there was any doubt about the outcome. Who cares. Though it was a nice touch for Crimea to have the referendum, unfortunately the vote was undermined by the constant barrage of massive “Nazi” lies and other propaganda of the Russians prior to the vote, though I think secession would have won the vote even absent those lies (but it seems Russia did not believe this, that is why they made so many stupid lies about alleged Kev Nazis, with maps of the rest of Ukraine in the color of a Nazi flag in every billboard in Crimea, lol).

    remember the Kosovo precedent

    Yeah? Well, when “you complain about others not taking your belly-aching about your favorite suffering groups seriously” (say, in your case, Donbass or Lugansk), remember Chechnya.

    Remember Chechnya.

    as Kosovo established might makes right and all else be damned

    LOL, that was established long before that. How do you think Russian grew from the Duchy of Muscovy to the Russian Empire, the largest country on the planet? It wasn’t through voluntary accession, I can absolutely guarantee you, lol.

    • Replies: @Melotte 22
  253. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    I noticed I erroneously posted to polls from Macedonia instead of Serbia in my last response (not live yet). The Serbs do overwhelmingly want to join EU, but are overwhelmingly against joining NATO, according to polls. http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/poll-serbia-support-for-joining-eu-nato-declines

    But I found another interesting poll, cited at https://www.rt.com/news/422211-serbs-nato-bombing-appology/ , which claims that only 10.5% of Serbs believe the NATO campaign was meant to remove Kosovo from Serbia.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  254. Robjil says:
    @CalDre

    Chechen wars was created by the same characters that has and is destroying Libya, Syria, Somalia, and Iraq. They are all western US/Israel pet terrorists. Russia had to kick them out of Chechyna, it was destroying Chechnya and Russia itself — Beslan – 300 children killed, planes going down, theater massacre, etc. It was terrorism on steroids. The US’s 911 was a US/Israel creation for the seven nations to destroy agenda. Agenda comes from Deuteronomy 7. 1-2 – destroy seven nations for Yahweh’s Israel. Iran is in the crosshairs since it is the last of the seven not yet attacked. By the way, Chechens love being be freed of the western US/Israel pet terrorists. Free at last.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  255. Beckow says:
    @CalDre

    …in your first post you wrote to me, you insulted me from start to end.

    No, I didn’t. If calling you angry after your liberal use of ‘f..ing’ and similar modifiers on whole nations insults you, I can’t help it. Nothing in my post to you could be construed as insult. That post was about the short-sightedness of wishing to remove Russia that acts as a buffer to protect Europe from the east and its ambitious migrant hordes.

    Nobody cares about that small blip in history anymore.

    Wrong. It is the central event that people go to when current situations are discussed. You are trying to bury it in a memory hole because it has such devastating impact on what you desire. But Nato’s irrational and self-defeating attack on Serbia cannot be wished away as a ‘blip’. It was a precedent.

    Regarding Serbs learning how to live with it, what are their options? Wanting to be a part of EU has nothing to do with, that’s simply a given, EU is better than not-EU, even Russians would join EU if they could. One more time: Nato bombed a small country to force independence for its minority. They did it with no support in international law, they used disproportionate weapons, and they lied about it very blatantly as it was happening. It cannot be wished away.

    I think others pointed out to you that the Chechen situation is a lot more complicated and has two sides. There is a more fundamental issue there: to what extent does it benefit Europe (not just Russia) to encourage small encroachment from Middle East to get closer to Europe? Realistically, it doesn’t. The tragedy of European civilisation is that too many (mostly Westerners) always prefer to fight each other instead of protecting the best civilisation that has ever existed. From French allying themselves with the Ottomans, to today’s ‘welcome’ culture in Germany, and the always treacherous Albion, they are their own worst enemies. Saudis paid well for the destruction of Serbia, but it was blood money, and that kind of betrayal always has consequences.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  256. Beckow says:
    @CalDre

    Your numbers don’t add up: you claimed above that 1/4 of Chechens were killed. 160k Chechens is nowhere close to 1/4, there are over 1 million Chechens. What gives?

    • Replies: @CalDre
  257. Seraphim says:
    @Miggle

    Now, be serious, if you do a search for Moncriffe, it is NOT Badwood that would pop up. As it happens, I traveled a bit around Oz. I know the place.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  258. Seraphim says:
    @Miggle

    No, I was referring to that sentence that you brought up, bad-mouthing some ‘Papist nutcase’:

    “he has launched an all-out war not just on the American Evangelicals, who are not real Evangelicals anyway, but on Protestantism as such, blaming “the Jews” for it”.

    As a matter of fact, Protestantism as such is what Heinrich Heine wrote about:

    “Take, for example, the Scotch Protestants: are not they Hebrews, whose names even are biblical, whose very cant smacks of the Phariseeism of ancient Jerusalem, and whose religion is naught else than a pork-eating Judaism? It is the same in Denmark and in certain provinces of North Germany, not to mention the majority of the new sects of the United States, among whom the life depicted in the Old Testament is pedantically aped. In the latter, that life appears as if daguerreotyped: the outlines are studiously correct, but all is depicted in sad, sombre colours; the golden tints and harmonising colours of the promised land are lacking. But the caricature will disappear sooner or later. The zeal, the imperishable and the true—that is to say, the morality—of ancient Judaism will in those countries bloom forth just as acceptably to God as in the old time it blossomed on the banks of Jordan and on the heights of Lebanon. One needs neither palm-trees nor camels to be good; and goodness is better than beauty”.

  259. annamaria says:
    @Beckow

    European civilization at a crossroad: http://www.voltairenet.org/article203998.html

    “The Common Market of the European Community enabled the establishment of peace in Western Europe. Its successor, the [authoritarian] European Union, is destroying this inheritance, and is setting its own members one against the other.”

  260. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    Chechen wars was created by the same characters

    That’s completely false. In 1991 times were very different, and really until then Soviet Union did not let those kind of things take root. But perhaps you have evidence of this? As I posted before, there is very little evidence of foreign fighters in the first Chechen war – under 1,000, mainly Afghans who had just driven USSR out of Afghanistan a few years earlier. If Russia had let Chechnya split off, like it did for many other regions (Ukraine, etc.), the war and radicalization would not have happened, nor would the Afghans have come to help.

    it was destroying Chechnya and Russia itself

    No, Russian Army destroyed Chechnya, you lie.

    Beslan – 300 children killed, planes going down, theater massacre, etc.

    Besland and theater – these people died when Russian forces attacked, no? In the Moscow theater, every dead person was killed by Russia. If the “terrorists” had wanted to blow up the theater, they could have done so, because the gas is not instant – there was plenty of time to blow up. But nobody did. So again you are spreading stupid propaganda. Also even if “terrorists” had killed all those people, it is a small number compared to the Chechens killed by Russian Army terrorists, murdering their own people, bombing their own cities, your pet terrorists.

    Chechens love being be freed

    Why not have a referendum then? Because your lies would be exposed? Putin installed a corrupt strongman in power, it’s hard to know what Chechens think. But Chechnya is now in fact largely independent; indeed Kadyrov recently demanded that no federal forces may enter Chechnya without permission (this is a demand of a sovereign nation, not a dependency). So as long as Russia lets Chechnya be, and gives it money, there will be peace. But my point is you could have had that peace in 1991, if Yeltsin hadn’t invaded and tried to crush them just because after 300 years of Russian subjugation, they longed for peace.

    You’re one of the endless Russian apologists on UNZ.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  261. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    Actually at the time I researched it carefully it was about 1/3rd of the population killed. This time I used more conservative estimates of casualties (numbers as high as 250,000 have been reported, including by senior members of the current Russian-approved Chechen government). The 1 million number you cite was the total population of Chechnya, but due to Russification, a large number of them, about 1/4th, were Russians, who virtually all returned to Russia when the First Chechen War started and Russia started pulverizing all the cities (where they lived, these weren’t Russian farmer settlers). So 160,000 out of 750,000 is a bit less than 1/4th, but 250,000 / 750,000 is 1/3rd.

  262. annamaria says:
    @CalDre

    CalDre: “…and fabricate that others are Nazis out of whole cloth.” -

    – Sure. The US Congresspeople, as well as the decent Israelis, apparently conspire with the evil Russians when uttering the word “neo-Nazi” while talking about Ukraine.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis

    – There is also a “freedom-loving” Chrystia Freeland, a descendant of an infamous Nazi collaborator (whom Chrystia used to peddle as the “victim of the Soviets”). Chrystia Freeland is a dear friend of the US ziocons and Ukrainian neo-Nazi (you know, Shoah-biz): https://consortiumnews.com/2017/02/27/a-nazi-skeleton-in-the-family-closet/

    – A boundless Russophobia like yours should be appreciated by Atlantic Council and its “experts” famous for their amazing ability to become deaf and blind to the facts when the facts do not agree with their (paid) ideology: https://www.ghanagrio.com/news/345471-western-silence-as-20-000-neo-nazis-march-in-ukraine.html

    https://www.sott.net/article/398536-The-top-10-Russophobes-of-2018

    • Replies: @CalDre
  263. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    wishing to remove Russia

    I never wrote anything remotely resembling that. But yeah, your post was offensive. That you can’t tell that it was offensive says a lot about you. By the way calling someone “too angry” is considered quite rude anywhere in the world. Why don’t you try it with some people in your neighborhood and at work, maybe your boss, and tell me how that works out for ya?

    I never used “fucking” on whole nations. Read my posts again – I was referring to “fucking UNZ Russians”, because the Russians who like to come here and insult Americans are hardly representative of all Russians. And in particular I was responding to your comrade EugeneGur’s absolutely despicable and insulting derision of Ukrainians, in which case, he did actually attack the entire country, and not just some radicals posting on Unz. Being as biased as you are, you find common ground with him so you don’t find his treatment of Ukrainians “hateful” or “angry”.

    But more importantly that “fucking” came up many posts after you first responded to me. That word does not exist in the post to which you first responded.

    It’s also fair to mention, that the chauvinistic attitude toward Ukrainians is very widely held by Russians. So if I generalize to all Russians for that, it’s not that unfair (though I know there are Russians who don’t hold these views).

    It is the central event that people go to when current situations are discussed.

    Maybe in your narrow circles, but that is because Russians generally think it sets a precedent for Crimea; I don’t recall even Russians focusing on that prior to 2015. People do sometimes refer to the ICJ decision that came out of it, but not to the actual NATO campaign, and certainly not your opinion, namely, that the campaign was conducted with the express intent of creating Kosovo as a sovereign state. Maybe it was a hoped for outcome, but that wasn’t in the control of the planners – it is the Albanians who declared independence, by a huge majority in fact, and it was Serbians and Russians who rejected the Ahtisaari plan, not NATO (just as Serbia had previously rejected peacekeepers, which started the NATO campaign in the first place).

    EU is better than not-EU

    They could join Russia’s economic union. By the way, Europe was very active in that NATO campaign, it was not just US, it was full NATO. Yet Serbia still is eager to join EU – whose major members, UK (for the time being), France and Germany, all participated in the bombing.

    They did it with no support in international law

    That’s unsettled, I’m not a supporter of the “humanitarian war” concept, but it’s not clear that a country cannot come to the defense of others under international law. For some reason Serbia did not take its case to the ICJ.

    I think others pointed out to you that the Chechen situation is a lot more complicated and has two sides.

    Every story has two sides. In Serbia the claim was that Serbs were ethnically cleansing Albanians from Kosovo (which was supported by a UN Supreme Court set up in Kosovo, which found the use of “murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments” to that end), with further (unproven) claims of genocide. See the summary at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1530781.stm .

    In Chechnya, I do not see the Russian claim at all. They could have let Chechnya go in 1992, after it declared independence in 1991. Chechnya has no business being part of the Russian Empire anymore. Even the second Chechen war, all of the allegedly terrible “terror incidents” happened after Russia again invaded Chechnya and started killing civilians (more on that in my post here). Why is killing Russian civilians back not “fair”? Of course it is, but, as you noted, might makes right, and Russia, then, had more might, and was eventually able to sue for peace and grant Chechnya a huge degree of independence anyway (yet it’s not a jihadist stronghold, go figure, lol).

    On your European comments, we are much more on the same page there.

  264. @CalDre

    Lol.
    Just go away, you are making a clown of yourself.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @AnonFromTN
  265. @CalDre

    77% of Serbs favour joining NATO?
    I challenge you now to provide a link with who, when and where has established this info?
    You are beyond joke.

  266. CalDre says:
    @Melotte 22

    LOL, genius comment. If only I were as smart as you.

  267. CalDre says:
    @annamaria

    The US Congresspeople, as well as the decent Israelis, apparently conspire with the evil Russians when uttering the word “neo-Nazi” while talking about Ukraine

    What are you blathering about? There are some “neo-Nazis” everywhere, just like there are Communists everywhere. The point is Russia lies and completely exaggerates the situation.

    A boundless Russophobia like yours

    The boundless Russian supremacists on Unz, boring, predictable and brainless as they are, including you, constantly parrot this idiot line. If anyone does not worship everything every Russian has ever done, one is a “Russophobe”. Like I wrote earlier, Russians compete with Jews for who is most sensitive, and anyone crossing the line is an “anti-Semite” or “Russophobe”. Laughably stupid, you embarrass yourself. The fact is actually that virtually every Russian on Unz is a screeching mad anti-Ukrainian chauvinist and bigot.

    • Replies: @Nonny
    , @annamaria
  268. Robjil says:
    @CalDre

    The taking over of a theater, of a school, downing planes, etc. would not be taken lightly by any nation on earth. Russia was attacked. Russia had to settle whatever was on going in Chechnya. Yelstin was a US puppet, so whatever he did was not for Russia. Yelstin gave up being a US puppet because of what the US did to Yugoslavia in 1999. He gave away his presidency to Putin on New year day’s 2000. What happened in Kosovo is the main reason Russia returned to the world. Chechen terrorists were the same cloth as the US Afghan terrorists as you noted. They were in the same club. Chechens realized that and did not want to be part of the US/Israel terrorist club anymore.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  269. Beckow says:

    You are selectively picking and choosing what you describe and what you omit, you also downplay realities that don’t fit your agenda (Kosovo, Beslan,…). This combination of cherry-picking, exaggeration, memory-holing and emotionalism is common to advocacy lawyering – something American education and society is good at. But seeking truth is not about behaving like a lawyer who has a cause to defend by any means. US society has gotten used to arguing its points as if it was a court spectacle where verbal skill, mendacity, the ability to outshout the enemy and emotionally manipulate the ‘audience’ is preeminent.

    It doesn’t work, others don’t care, the reality doesn’t care, the lawyerly spectacle is irrelevant. You don’t seem to understand it and repeatedly double-down to what looks to any objective outsider as lying, or half-truths. You don’t seek truth or understanding (or solutions), you seek to bamboozle.

    This is a problem because it has become endemic in US and is spreading around the West. One cannot rationally discuss with people who are so obsessed with their own exceptionalism. If you cannot make a connection that A is an A, that when Nato attacked Serbia it was with a full understanding that they will force Kosovo independence, if you ask for a ‘public statement‘ to that effect, you are not part of a rational analysis – you are a desperate defender of an undefensible position. It is akin to a former President saying ‘it depends on what you definition of ‘is’ is’. Right, deny the nose between your eyes and like a child think that you are getting away with it. You are not, you are just becoming irrelevant.

    There is nothing ‘unsettled‘ in international law about the right of any country to bomb another country because they state that there are ‘human rights violations‘ happening there. It is not allowed – it is explicitly prohibited. Hitler invaded Poland to protect ‘human rights’ of German minority there. Just about every invasion in history used a version of that argument to justify itself. This is not in dispute and neither is the fact that there was no ‘UN Supreme Court’ in Kosovo – there wasn’t, you are playing with words, there was a one-off tribunal in Hague, that by the way concluded 10 years later that there was no ‘genocide’.

    It broke the system and we will not get it back for generations. Others have pointed out to you details better than I can. It is indisputable – and often stated in Russia – that Nato bombing of Kosovo changed everything. They use it explicitly to answer all accusations – and they are kind of right (I am not a Russian). We are in a pretty steep downward spiral and in the Chapter on ‘Causes’ (if anyone is around to write it), Nato’s attack on Kosovo will be right at the top.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @CalDre
  270. @Melotte 22

    If the person wants to be a clown, who’s to say that he/she/it shouldn’t?

    That said, I suspect that personage is an anti-American troll. It behaves like a comedy American, wearing standard propaganda fairy tales and characteristic prejudices on his/her/its sleeve. Either that, or that personage is so ill-informed and/or dim-witted that he/she/it actually believes the BS he/she/it is spewing. Either way, the posts of that personage discredit Americans unduly: people in the US tend to be ignorant, but they do have some common sense (in the Western US it used to be called horse sense – the sense that prevents horses from betting on humans).

    • Replies: @Beckow
  271. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow

    Good comment.

    Especially:

    …This combination of cherry-picking, exaggeration, memory-holing and emotionalism is common to advocacy lawyering – something American education and society is good at….

    ….US society has gotten used to arguing its points as if it was a court spectacle where verbal skill, mendacity, the ability to outshout the enemy and emotionally manipulate the ‘audience’ is preeminent….

    ….You don’t seek truth or understanding (or solutions), you seek to bamboozle….

    ….This is a problem because it has become endemic in US and is spreading around the West….

    and…hehe…re…

    ….One cannot rationally discuss with people who are so obsessed with their own exceptionalism….

    don’t tell me you’ll give up on the guy?

    Now….having said all that, I am not quite sure you are correct in saying that is “irrelevant” and “nobody cares”.
    On the contrary I am afraid.

    You think I’d spend a nanosecond on all this if it was Uruguay’s?

    Power changes everything. Ability to project that power on a global scale that is.

    So, we do agree (as Friedman said) on all that in quotes above, BUT, some of us are, how to put it, find it quite relevant and paying a lot of attention to it. Say, you walk in a public library for some quiet quality time, for example, and there is a 16 years old with an assault rifle pissed off at….well, what those types most of the time are. The rifle changes everything. As MIC and it’s capability.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  272. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I think the % of trolls is very low, the behaviour just doesn’t make sense, so why do it?

    What I see is a lot of similarity with a certain kind of a publicly active American, even – God forbid – a specialist in some of these areas. They tend to be informed just enough, have a deep sense of insecurity and so lash out at any perceived slight, but mostly they are just frustrated that the world is not the way it was explained to them when studying. They lack humility to reconsider some of their false assumptions, and they lack power to force their views on the others, so it is a no-win situation. They used to bomb people, but that is becoming harder and harder. Now they lash out with financial attacks, but since money is just a social construct, that has limited effectiveness.

    I once talked to an aspiring Georgetown ‘expert’, he told us excitedly that there is this incredible historical figure ‘Ataturk’ in Turkey that he read about and we must had never heard about. He went on and on about how we should look into it. Right. He is probably running the Turkish desk at the State Dept. There are exceptions, but this is more common than not.

    People with ‘horse sense’ in US don’t get anywhere close to foreign policy issues, and that’s a pity. It might cost us this earth.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  273. Beckow says:
    @peterAUS

    I wish it was ‘irrelevant’, but you are right, it is not. On my good days I wish that there would be an awakening, that the smart people would step in, that all this insane and self-defeating ‘exceptionalism’ would be discarded. But that has never happened historically (to my knowledge) – we might have to live through the painful collapse of this illusion in the next few decades. Or not live through it.

    When you tell the ‘Atlantic’ crowd that ‘bombing others to teach them human rights‘ is on its face an idiotic idea, and they respond, ‘but we defeated the Nazis‘, there is so much wrong in that short interaction, such a gap from reality, even normalcy, that one wonders what the future will bring.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @CalDre
  274. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    You are selectively picking and choosing what you describe and what you omit, you also downplay realities that don’t fit your agenda

    You describe yourself and your twisted agenda, which is: to prove US is the devil and Russia the angel. Every partisan is an ignorant fool, and you are no exception. It must be your great anger and terrible education.

    You don’t seek truth or understanding (or solutions), you seek to bamboozle.

    You make such spurious accusations but you have not shown a single lie I have written. On the other hand I have called you out several times on lies, and you have failed to substantiate them.

    All of the stuff you write is true about you – you are arguing without facts, logic or reason, to advance your Russian supremacist agenda. Nobody in the world is buying your shit, only other Russian supremacists, of which there are about a dozen of you here on Unz, always posting the same shit. Sad, really.

    One cannot rationally discuss with people who are so obsessed with their own exceptionalism.

    Wow, you are really projecting powerfully here – really describing yourself, baring your soul if you will. Really, this is a clinical case of projection, if only Freud were here to marvel.

    you are a desperate defender of an undefensible position

    So in other words you want to condemn me for desiring evidence, against your Russian supremacist/idiotic view of the world. Your position is both indefensible (not undefensible, you should learn some English, Mr. “Education”, lol) and idiotic all at once. I have already explained to you that NATO cannot declare independence for Albanians, it is the Albanians that need to do that. Even if NATO wanted independence for Kosovo. And how would NATO know that Serbia would reject every single compromise, leading up to the ALBANIANS declaring independence? You live in a fantasy world of lies and deception. Your Russian nationalist fantasy world.

    It is not allowed – it is explicitly prohibited.

    Except, I suppose, when Russia invaded Georgia because some people in part of Georgia were attacked (a small number were Russian troops, but these were in Georgia against Georgia’s wishes, i.e., they were invaders, and every country has the right to destroy invaders). And except in Donbass, when these alleged “Nazis” are “committing genocide” (LMFAO) against “Russians” (nobody creates as absurd propaganda as Russians, except Baghdad Bob). Oh wait – then Russia just lies and lies and lies about not being involved, when everyone knows they are. Fact is, there is no case that stopping an attack on civilians is illegal. Otherwise, Serbia would have taken NATO to the ICJ – instead, they only complained about Kosovan independence, not about the bombing campaign itself.

    While I agree that there is no right to intervene in another country, Russia is hardly in the position to advocate for that. Along with US, UK, France and Israel, it is the greatest warmonger on the planet. By the way, what do you think Russia would do if Latvia started killing all the ethnic Russians in the country? What should it do? Please answer honestly.

    As to why it’s unsettled, it’s not only because all the world powers on the UNSC violate it, but because there is an actual debate on it. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_intervention#Legal_grounds Also you may have heard of the Responsibility to Protect doctrine, which was adopted by the UN in 2005. This doctrine allows overriding state sovereignty. While technically it requires UNSC approval, it is already a huge chink in “sovereignty”, and this is how Libya was destroyed.

    Interestingly, UN was created while USSR was illegally occupying about 8 (Warsaw Pact) and 6 (SSR) states. Their sovereignty was utterly ignored. But of course that didn’t matter because USSR good, yes, comrade?

    there was no ‘UN Supreme Court’ in Kosovo

    Again you prove your mockery over truth. I even gave you a link, for crying out loud, but being the arrogant know-nothing you are, you come back with more disinformation. If you don’t believe the BBC report, find a source you like; the case was against Vukovic. Other news articles, e.g., are here, and here (a follow-up case by the same tribunal is here). An OSCE report on the matter is available here (p. 49, but the Supreme Court judgments begins on page 48, showing how it handled a large number of cases).

  275. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    Yes, and the wholesale of one’s cities would not be taken lightly by any people on Earth. Let’s not forget who started this: Russia. Unquestionably. Chechnya simply wanted independence after being under the Moscow boot for 2 centuries, and all the suffering they went through (including Stalin’s ethnic cleansing / relocation, Communism, Russification and many other horrors). Russia responded by destroying the country.

    End of story. Basta. Russia was the evil one, without question. And it hardly got back what it dished out. You just hate it when people fight back – it’s great when Russia destroys others for no reason other than its will to dominate and subjugate, but if they raise a hand back, then they are terribly evil. Sure.

    Yelstin was a US puppet, so whatever he did was not for Russia.

    No, he was a Jew puppet. It wasn’t US that ended up owning all of Russia during his reign (he was elected by Russians, of course), but Jews. Russian Jews. (Just like Russian Jews brought Bolshevism to Russia, not US.)

    Chechen terrorists were the same cloth as the US Afghan terrorists as you noted.

    I never called them terrorists. That is the Russian language for anyone who does not want to live under the Moscow boot. It’s a meaningless term. Just like “Nazi”. It’s just stupid Russian propaganda.

  276. Robjil says:

    Chechnya is doing fine now. Putin worked it out. The US/Israel terrorists from Chechnya went to help US/Israel work on the “seven nations to destroy” agenda in the middle east. Kosovo is not doing so good. Its soils are poisoned with uranium from NATO’s bombs. Kosovars are farming on poisoned soils. They were the third largest group fleeing to Northern Europe in the 2015 “Refugee crisis”. Why would anyone flee from a NATO wonderland? The US built the largest base in Europe in Kosovo. It is called Bondsteel. Heroin trafficking is a big market in Kosovo. I wonder why?

    • Replies: @Nonny
    , @Melotte 22
  277. Nonny says:
    @Robjil

    Was there really U238 in the bombs? What purpose does it serve in a bomb?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  278. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow

    ….I wish that there would be an awakening, that the smart people would step in….

    Unlikely.
    Having said that miracles do happen.

    …we might have to live through the painful collapse of this illusion in the next few decades.

    More likely outcome. Not quite sure that what happens next will be better.
    Well, at least, whatever (dystopia) happens, better than:

    ….not live through it.

    So, as:

    …one wonders what the future will bring.

    I’d say, save miracle or (nuclear) mistake, something “Brasil like”, with some combination of Orwell and Huxley. More of later.

  279. @Beckow

    You may be right. This might be just the frustration of a genuinely deluded American who cannot digest the fact that the world is very different from what he/she/it was taught and, worse yet, actually believed. Maybe angry at the world that the “exceptional” Empire is going down and there is no longer any way to salvage its supremacy.

    I agree that no one in the US dealing with its foreign policy (or internal policy, for that matter) has any horse sense. I live in this country. It is frustrating to see that lunatic asylum is the only proper place for that commenter, as well as for the whole government, Congress, and “expert” community. God save us.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  280. @Robjil

    Bondsteel base was the only reason for NATO criminal intervention against Yugoslavia.
    They care about ‘Kosovars’ as much as they care about self-hatred Russians in Ukraine.
    ‘Use and discard’ policy.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  281. Robjil says:
    @Nonny

    There are many articles about the US’s use of depleted uranium bombs for its wars. The US military does not say why it uses uranium in its bombs, it just does it. Reckless chimpanzee behavior it is. UN is so quiet about it. Yet, the US and friends’ faux “chemical weapons” false flags make big news at the UN all the time. Here is one:

    https://www.merip.org/mer/mer215/depleted-uranium-haunts-kosovo-iraq

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @CalDre
    , @Nonny
  282. Nonny says:
    @CalDre

    That you are a fanatical American supremacist and also a Judeophobe is an odd combination, CalDre. But there is a better thing you could be doing than polluting Unz Review site. Go away and read the late Gore Vidal’s book, Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace: How We Got To Be So Hated. Take your time, read it carefully, and please don’t come back. Not here. Thanks.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  283. Robjil says:
    @Melotte 22

    The US and NATO wanted Ukraine only for Crimea. They were caught in a mousetrap instead, no Crimea for them. Russia got Crimea instead. This is why the endless wailing and gashing of teeth about Crimea by the US and NATO . They thought it would be so much easier than the Yugoslavia attack. A few paid genocidal thugs at the Maidan and Nuland’s cookies is all it took for the US to take over Ukraine. The people of Crimea and Russia weren’t going for it. The US and NATO ended in a Ukraine mousetrap, a useless big Ukraine without the desired Bondsteel-like base in Crimea.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  284. Beckow says:
    @Robjil

    When you add depleted uranium to metal in bombs, it makes them stronger at penetrating hardened targets. The problem is that during the explosion, the dust containing depleted uranium is released.

  285. annamaria says:
    @CalDre

    CalDre: “The boundless Russian supremacists on Unz, boring, predictable and brainless as they are, including you, constantly parrot this idiot line. … Laughably stupid, you embarrass yourself.”

    – Sounds hysterical. Why don’t you try to refute the facts of the US/Israel involvement in the ongoing revival of Nazism in Ukraine?

    What is not clear in the name of this article? – “Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis:” https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis

    What is not clear in the name of this article? — “Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine” https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727

    And here is the context: https://forward.com/opinion/401518/violent-anti-semitism-is-gripping-ukraine-and-the-government-is-standing/
    “The April 28 march in L’viv, during which a thousand people honored SS Galichina, a Ukrainian division in Hitler’s Waffen-SS, was not an isolated event planned by a fringe group. The march was the culmination of a weeklong celebration of SS Galichina promoted by the L’viv city council. Bizarrely enough, this included a contest encouraging teenagers to submit fan artwork of the SS.”

    – By the way, the Unz forum is not a schoolyard to bully others. Mind your manners.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  286. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …genuinely deluded American who cannot digest the fact that the world is very different from what he was taught and, worse yet, actually believed

    It is a sad story. There is also often an ethnic angle – badly digested anger at something some relative experienced at the hands of the ‘enemy’. The verbal meltdown of this guy is extraordinary.

    Alexis Tocqueville said something that I believe applies today: the effective reason that causes elites to lose political power is that they become unworthy to retain it. Being deluded about reality and angry about criticism is no way to run the world.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  287. @Robjil

    This is why the endless wailing and gashing of teeth

    Russians say that Ukraine without Crimea is like purebred stallion without balls.

  288. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    The US military does not say why it uses uranium in its bombs

    More utter nonsense from the UNZ Russia Patrol. US clearly states why it uses depleted uranium in its weapons: because it penetrates armor (being extremely dense). Even a 1-second Google search would tell you that, not that you would bother, as the UNZ Russia Patrol exclusively peddles lies and fantasy.

    But, you are right about one thing, it should be classified as a WMD and it’s users punished as war criminals. But no war criminals, whether in the US or Russia, will be punished anytime soon. Having a seat on the UNSC means any crimes can be committed and the only “remedy”, essentially, is annihilation of humanity by nuclear war.

  289. CalDre says:
    @Nonny

    LOL, another total moron joins the fray. And trying to bully me to, LOL, I love you Russian UNZ Patrol morons, a sad and pathetic clan of Russian supremacists and pathological US haters.

    Keep it coming, the entertainment value of your stupidity, chauvinism, lies and arrogance is very special.

    • Troll: Miggle, Melotte 22, bluedog
    • Replies: @Nonny
    , @Melotte 22
  290. CalDre says:
    @Beckow

    I wish that there would be an awakening, that the smart people would step in

    Quite contraire, you loathe smart people, not only because you are jealous of intelligence, but because smart people don’t buy into your third-rate psycho-babble, nor do they believe your Russia Angel/US Devil fable. That latter fable is held tightly by the arrogant clan of Russian chauvinists who regularly post here and try to bully anyone who stands up to their hatred, ignorance and foolishness.

    But keep spreading your lies, I will keep pointing them out. You make it too easy.

    By the way, arrogant Russian chauvinists, you want to read an actual Russophobe? I just ran across this tweet: https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1071495234863939584 I raise it here because his attitude really mirrors that of you Russian chauvinists here on UNZ. Birds of a feather, except, he’s much smarter than you guys, and richer too. Oh, and the guy seems to be a Jew, Ocko and that face, but I must be a Judeophobe, huh, “Nonny”?

    • Replies: @Nonny
  291. Nonny says:
    @Robjil

    Horrible! Horrible!!!

    If only those gentle angels (relatively), the Nazis, had won WW2!

    But come to think of it, they were predatory Capitalists, too. Still relative angels.

    And Stalin was so conciliatory he let the Americans occupy southern Korea. If ONLY he had annihilated them!

  292. Nonny says:
    @CalDre

    I suppose you are right in calling me a total moron. Only a total moron would think CalDre could ever learn a thing, even from a famous American author and analyst.

    Referring you to a Gore Vidal book makes me a Russian, of course!

    • Replies: @CalDre
  293. Nonny says:
    @CalDre

    You can call me Annie if you don’t like Nonny. I am Annie Nonny Mouse. I have to jump from key to key to post here, hard work, and all I get in reply from you, all anyone gets, is total muck.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  294. @CalDre

    You finally show your true, ugly colours.
    Well done.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  295. @Beckow

    You may be right. Intellectually, I understand it, but psychologically I do not. My father fought Nazis in 1941-42 at the front, was decorated several times and wounded twice. As he was a junior officer (artillery lieutenant), the only reason he survived was that he was decommissioned after the second wound. Yet I don’t feel like blaming Germans for it: practically none of the Germans alive today served Hitler. I collaborate with several labs in Germany and don’t feel towards them any different than towards others.

    The same is true about most Americans. When I came to the US in 1991, I came from the enemy country, but all I felt from regular people was curiosity. There were relatively few Russians around: those fake “refugees” concentrated in New York and a few other places, so in most cities in the US Russians were rare, as only honest people who came to work were there. I remember when I came to the bank to open an account and deposit my first paycheck, the whole branch gathered to have a look at a live Russian. They were all curious and very helpful at the same time. No hostility whatsoever.

    So that personage must be either a freak, or a crypto-Ukie whose ancestors served Hitler and were either repressed for that by the Soviet authorities or just ran away to the US or Canada, like many former Nazi collaborators. Either way, I don’t see a point in communicating with him/her/it.

    Degenerate Western elites became unworthy to retain power some years ago. We’ll see whether Tocqueville was right. He might have been too optimistic, or did not consider the case when the whole world order is coming crashing down, burying the dominant Empire and its sidekicks. Hopefully not all of us.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  296. CalDre says:
    @Nonny

    Another moron comment – making very faulty logic layered on huge unfounded assumptions, par for the course for the Unz Russian Patrol .

    Don’t know if you are a Russian or not, given the fact that the Unz Russian Patrol is 100% loyal to a ridiculous propaganda version of Russia you are either that or an even greater moron than I imagined. But everything is possible. Certainly I don’t believe your “disclaimer”.

  297. CalDre says:
    @Melotte 22

    LOL, you are a hideous color. And your ideas, soul and heart even uglier.

  298. CalDre says:
    @Nonny

    You Unz Russia Patrol know only blind hate for the West, blind love for Russia, all mixed with a never-ending stream of lies, disinformation, ignorance, stupidity, ad hominem attacks, self-delusion, psycho-babble and utter total nonsense.

    And I’m calling it all out. You can attack me 1 million times, I will parry your pathetic efforts, every single time. Keep it coming, comrades of the Unz Russian Patrol. You make me laugh!

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @annamaria
  299. Robjil says:
    @CalDre

    Cal Dre. The west that you love some much is not “free” anymore and it has not been since 1913. Read “Solving 911″by Christopher Bollyn. Another good book about the beginnings of this century of terror since 1913 is “Under the sign of the Scorpion” by Juri Lina, it tells how Russia was terrorized and destroyed in the most horrific ways imaginable. Soviet Union did become a a better place after Stalin took over. Russia came back. Stalin was poisoned on Purim 1953 by Israel firsters. The book notes that the Russian Revolution started on Purim 1917. It was February 23 old time, March 8 western time. Russia has come back again in the world since 2000 with Putin. The great literature of 19th century Russia is the greatest in world history. It is heart breaking that such a beautiful culture was so horribly destroyed by the early Bolsheviks. The beauty and strength of Russia can never be destroyed, it always comes back.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  300. CalDre says:
    @annamaria

    hysterical. Why don’t you try to refute the facts of the US/Israel involvement in the ongoing revival of Nazism in Ukraine

    Why should I bother refuting your absurd lies? I can’t prove a negative. Anyway Nazism is better than Communism, you better check your beloved Russia’s Communist “revival” – unlike Ukraine, Russia has lots of Communists in Parliament, and lots of Russian Communists posting on Unz.

    “Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis”

    Like I wrote before, there are a few Nazis everywhere. Even in Mother Russia. But the far worse problem is Communists, they are the lowest dregs of humanity, right, comrade? As I wrote, “There are some “neo-Nazis” everywhere, just like there are Communists everywhere. The point is Russia lies and completely exaggerates the situation.” You have done absolutely nothing to disprove that, just repeated your nauseating lies, all par for the course for the Unz Russian Patrol.

    I don’t give a shit about a thousand honoring SS Galichina (who weren’t Nazis, even though distinctions and nuances are lost on you Russian supremacists, aside from the most boring distinctions in Communist dogma, which you can debate for years). I’m far more concerned about the millions of Russian honoring Stalin and Lenin. You even have Lenin still lying in state in Red Square. You have Russian crying “Sacrilege!” when Ukrainians finally tear down the statutes of that deranged monster.

    By the way, the Unz forum is not a schoolyard to bully others

    You should tell your comrades about that. Though they won’t care, Communists are all about bullying and oppressing – it is the core of their ideology and identity. And the Unz Russia Patrol is no exception.

  301. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    Dear Robjil, I don’t need a reading list from you, lol. I am quite well read and I have my own reading lists.

    Also, unfortunately indicating that you are a complete simpleton, you make all kinds of absurd assumption about me just because I am tired of the aggressive Russian chauvinists posting here, repeating their same tired lies, accusations and excuses millions of times, in this thread alone it’s an echo chamber of lies and Russia worship.

    That said, I do agree with the Jewish role in antagonizing Russia. In fact if you look at the Russophobia in the US today, you will find Jews at the forefront almost everywhere. You will find Jews in the forefront of Bolshevism. You will find Jews dominate the “advisors” sent to Russia in the 1990s, that ended up putting virtually all of Russian wealth in the hands of … Jews (the Seven Oligarchs).

    But, no, Stalin was not an improvement. Though he did manage a few good things (such as purging Jew supremacists from power), he himself was an utter demonic tyrant and an absolute despot/supremacist. You are right about the February Revolution starting on the second day of Purim, but it was the October Revolution in which Jews seized power.

    The beauty and strength of Russia can never be destroyed, it always comes back.

    Great point. It’s too bad that the Unz Russia Patrol portrays Russia in such a bad light through their extreme chauvinism. It is almost like the worst of Russians regularly post here. It is nice if you can represent the large majority of Russians who are not blindly hateful to the “West” and blindly loyal to “Russia”. Much appreciated. But do please keep that in mind when commenting about Chechnya, for example: that was a very dark moment in Russian history. If you do not see that, then your more inspiring words I quoted above ring absolutely hollow.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  302. annamaria says:
    @CalDre

    “You Unz Russia Patrol know only blind hate for the West, blind love for Russia, all mixed with a never-ending stream of lies, disinformation, ignorance, stupidity, ad hominem attacks, self-delusion, psycho-babble and utter total nonsense.”

    – Oh, boy. Have not you mentioned “ad hominem attacks, self-delusion, psycho-babble” in one breath? Imagine for a sec that you presented, inadvertently, a self-portrait…

    As for the “blind hate for the West,” it begins with the betrayal of the western values like the adherence to the rule of law, protection of the freedom of speech and other trifles that you (and Canadian and Ukrainian banderites) seemingly are not fond of.

    “…never-ending stream of lies, disinformation…” — Stop your hysterics and look at the facts: The zionists/neocons have been using Ukrainian nationalists to fight the ongoing resurrection of Russia. Where is your refutation of the facts of the zionized US disregard for international law? You seem quite tolerant towards the zionized US acts of regime-change and other “humanitarian” interventions (preferably with depleted uranium).

    There is another important point: What is the similarity between Cheney and Giraldi? They are both Americans. What is the difference? — One is a patriot and another is an opportunistic profiteer, a traitor. Why should not patriotic Americans hate the traitorous Cheney and AIPAC? Or this is too much for you, CalDre?

    What is the difference between the hopeful participants of Majdan and the Yatz & Poroschenko Inc.?
    Don’t forget that the revival of Nazism in Ukraine has been going on under the First-Ever Jewish Ukrainian prime minister Groysman. Jews constitute some 0.02% of Ukrainian population. Who has elected the comical Volodimir Groysman that is presiding over the greatest ever rise in antisemitism in Ukraine? https://forward.com/opinion/401518/violent-anti-semitism-is-gripping-ukraine-and-the-government-is-standing/
    Or to notice this obscenity is an act of (in your words) “blind hate for the West?”

    • Agree: Miggle
    • Replies: @CalDre
  303. Robjil says:
    @CalDre

    Yes, the era of Chechen US/Israel pet bandits terrorizing Russia and Chechnya was a very bad moment in Russian history. Yelstin, was a US puppet who did all the wrongs things to end it. Putin ended it. Syria and Iraq are full of US/Israel terror puppets now. We in the west had endless Operation Gladio “Isis” false flags shows for the past four years. Russia entrance in Syria stopped the Isis gimmick for the west. It was a win-win for Russia and for us little people in the west. The little people of the world thank from the bottom of hearts Russia for stopping the Isis gimmick false flag sideshow.

    • Agree: Nonny
    • Replies: @CalDre
  304. CalDre says:
    @annamaria

    Have not you mentioned “ad hominem attacks, self-delusion, psycho-babble” in one breath?

    It’s not an ad hominem (at least in the logical fallacy sense) as the Unz Russian patrol is the very topic of discussion. I am simply explaining what I don’t like about it.

    it begins with the betrayal of the western values

    Doesn’t matter where you think it begins, all I read from the Unz Russian Patrol is a constant stream of pathological hatred.

    The zionists/neocons have been using Ukrainian nationalists to fight the ongoing resurrection of Russia.

    Maybe so, but I have not discussed this point. My point has been the abysmal chauvinism of the Unz Russian Patrol that writes, consistently, the most offensive things about Ukrainians, even denying them an identity, and essentially describing them as Russian slaves who should do as their masters tell them. Shameful on every level. When I read their hateful drivel I am actually very happy Ukraine has become alienated from Russia – you see, the Russian chauvinism and hatred has the opposite effect of intended. You only motivate people to oppose you. Particularly Ukrainians. (And no, no matter how much the Unz Russian Idiot Patrol conjectures, I am not Ukrainian, but as I have mentioned many times, I have lived many years in Ukraine, among both ethnic Ukrainians and Russians, so I understand this dynamic better than probably anyone here.)

    You seem quite tolerant towards the zionized US acts of regime-change

    Obviously you are far too lazy to even briefly look at my posting history before writing the nonsense you write. It just proves how uneducated, prejudiced and superficial you are. You are bereft of ideas and analysis. You have an utterly superficial view of the world. You and the rest of your gang.

    One is a patriot and another is an opportunistic profiteer, a traitor.

    That’s pretty funny, because, according to the Unz Russian Patrol, the Russian “Cheney’s are heroes and the Russian “Giraldis” are traitors. But then we are used to your chauvinistic double-standards, hypocrisy and supremacism, and none of this is surprising.

    Contrary to you, I am not a blind, foolish, puerile partisan. I can hate Cheney for what he did on 9/11 and to Iraq, and I can hate Putin for what he did to Chechnya. You partisan chauvinists do not have such flexibility and integrity, because to you only the Object matters, not the actions or the means.

    Jews constitute some 0.02% of Ukrainian population.

    Yes, but over half of the oligarchs, who control a large majority of the mass media. And these Jews spread a lot of Russophobia. Entirely consistent with what I wrote about Jews in US’ Russophobia, the Bolshevik revolution, and the 1990s, above. But Jews still have far more than their fair share of power in Russia as well ….

    As to The Forward, that is a hardcore Jew supremacist website that is completely unreliable. Part of their agenda, like the ADL, is to convince Jews that “everyone is out to get them” to solidify Jewish solidarity, which works exceptionally well to advance the interests of the Jew supremacist oligarchs. In short, nothing written about anti-Semitism in The Forward has any bearing on reality.

  305. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    Putin ended it.

    Yup, genocide puts an end to all those pesky ethnic problems. Congratulations on your Fuehrer’s success.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  306. yurivku says:

    It’s a one man show. Call it Dre. Well, it’s quite useful to see all western shit and hate in one place.
    The only thing which is quite strange – there’re so many reasonable people talking to it.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  307. Robjil says:
    @CalDre

    The US/Israel Chechen puppet terrorists have left Chechnya. Putin did a good thing for Russia, Chechnya and the world. An Ukrainian version of the US/Israel pet terrorism project controls Ukraine now. US ukraine is an Ukrainian version of US/Israel isis. It is the greatest danger to our planet. It is a US/Israel terror project in control of a large country in Europe. This makes it a thousand times more dangerous than Isis or Al-Qaeda, other US/Israel terror projects. This US/Israel terror monster of US ukraine is now saying it plans to develop nuclear weapons. I wonder where it will get its tech from? US and its friends, oh course. US ukraine has the potential to destroy our planet. It much more dangerous than “Climate Change”. With Climate Change we will still have our planet. Nuclear war equals no planet. The US/Israel has to get out Ukraine and give back Ukraine to the Ukrainians for the sake of our planet.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  308. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    As often with analysis, Tocqueville was right about elites and wrong about timing and how it plays out (he wrote it in 1848). The elites that lose it mentally and cease to act rationally eventually disappear. But how and when is in the stars.

    There were rich people in the early 20th century living on perpetual, guaranteed annual income – none of that has survived the last 100 years. Yet when it happened and how, those details got lost.

    My grandpa had a Wehrmacht corporal assigned to his house in the last 6 months of WWII (a nice middle-aged baker from Berlin). At the same time his brother and uncles were up in the hills fighting the Germans. People talked, the German guy knew, but said nothing (I probably wouldn’t be here if he did). I understand the alibism of the end of the war, the opportunism, etc… and yet humans tend to stay humane, and Germans were often much better than they are portrayed, it was a no-win situation for most of them too.

    The unconstrained hatred that one sees today towards anything remotely Russian, or Slav in general, or sometimes a few other groups (white Europeans in general) is unfortunately a sign of the coming confrontation. There has to be a critical mass of people like this sad guy fed by ceaseless media conditioning. Now I hear that Putin ‘may have‘ organized the yellow jackets in Paris, we are definitely in a downward spiral. Hysteria is nothing else than a very focused ‘thought’ based on automatically and immediately connecting anything to one’s preconceived emotional desired picture of the world. ‘Witch’ is a witch, because ‘she could be’.

    And I don’t think it is reversible, so when one projects into the future it will gradually get worse. It is interesting how hatred always begets hatred on the other side, the survival instinct kicks in, what was initially a projection becomes real, and history is made.

  309. CalDre says:
    @yurivku

    Oh, another Russian supremacist showing off. How darling. There’s so many of the Unz Russia Patrol here, all salivating at the war crimes of your rulers while constantly attacking others.

    You see, I don’t buy into your Russian supremacism and you try to dehumanize me by calling me “it” – not sure how many times it has happened in this thread but a lot of you do it – and coming up with other fairy tales to justify your seething hatred you feel for anyone not following your perverted, partisan ideology.

    How sad, and soulless, you are.

  310. CalDre says:
    @Robjil

    You see, fundamentally, there is no difference between people like you and Cheney or Wolfowitz or the other neo-cons. You both salivate over murdering people you can pin a label on, in your case, “Nazi” or “terrorist”. It doesn’t matter whether or not the label applies in any true way, because all you need is to pin that label to rejoice over the slaughter, and you will eagerly swallow any silly propaganda your rulers toss at you to swallow, so much better to glorify the destruction and carnage wrought in your name. Yes, the soul and heart are the same; only the partisanship is different. Neo-cons champion Jewish supremacism, you champion Russian supremacism. In God’s eyes, you are equally evil.

    Yes, you have a bleak, black soul. The entire Unz Russia Patrol does. Your just hypocritical evil people whose only lament is that you do not have the power of the neo-cons so you can slaughter everyone that you (falsely) believe has perhaps somehow “wronged” you or your rulers.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  311. annamaria says:
    @CalDre

    “… fundamentally, there is no difference between people like you and Cheney or Wolfowitz or the other neo-cons.””

    Well, on this forum, you are the loudest defender of all and any Chechen activities. Here for you is the beautiful legacy of Obamas: http://www.voltairenet.org/article204303.html

    “In December 2014, Henry Kravis created his own Intelligence agency, the KKR Global Institute. He nominated at its head the ex-Director of the CIA, General David Petraeus. With the Kravis couple’s private funds (the KKR investment funds), and without referring to Congress, Petraeus pursued operation « Timber Sycamore » which had been initiated by President Barack Obama. This was the largest weapons traffic in History, implicating at least 17 states and representing many thousands of tons of weapons worth several billion dollars [7]. As such, Kravis and Petraeus became the main suppliers for Daesh [8].”

    How dear is Daesh to your heart? Guess you are terribly upset that Russians got involved in Syria…

    On the other subject, here is an amazing news from the zionized Ukraine: http://thesaker.is/ukraine-sets-up-for-a-possible-winter-offensive-in-ldnr/

    “Stepan Bandera Voted a Hero of Ukraine

    For those unfamiliar with Bandera, his armies included 3 or 4 Waffen SS Battalions that were also prison guards at the extermination camps. The OUN is responsible for the murder of more than 3 million Soviet prisoners of war through forced starvation inside Ukraine.

    The OUN committed WWII’s first Holocaust acts at Katyn and Babi Yar just outside Kiev. Today at Babi Yar, instead of a promised Holocaust memorial commemorating the 36,000 Jews that were murdered there, the Ukrainian government put up memorials to OUN members that may have taken part in the crimes against humanity.

    Recognition of Stepan Bandera by Ukraine on any level should be the factor showing exactly where the country exists politically. Bandera was a fascist and believed in a strongman government. His follower’s politics today is the same.

    What kind of country is Ukraine to make a man Adolf Hitler considered violent and unstable its national hero?”

    — Yes, what kind of government (apart from the obedient vassal Canada) glorifies Stepan Bandera?
    It was only upon liberation of Ukraine by US zionists that Ukrainian government (and neo-Nazi militia) has finally succeeded in making Bandera into a national hero.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  312. CalDre says:
    @annamaria

    Well, on this forum, you are the loudest defender of all and any Chechen activities.

    Oh, you are such a blatant liar. In this case, it is trivial to prove your lies. Every single post on this forum I have made, dating back a number of years, is available here, please do show us all my “loud defense of all and any Chechen activities”. I am against the mass slaughter you so adoringly love and cherish.

    As to volatairenet, it is not a reliable source.

    Guess you are terribly upset that Russians got involved in Syria

    Blah, blah, blah, there you go fabricating attitudes and opinions again, typical of despicable people like you. Doesn’t matter what I write, you just fabricate idiotic stuff, in order to make yourself feel wonderful about the rampant slaughter and war crimes you cherish, so long as committed by the Muscovite heroes, whose every crime you worship and celebrate.

    Oh, Saker – he’s predicting his 100th invasion by Ukraine. Yawn. If you look really really really hard, you just might, might, find someone who is wrong more often than Saker. But you’d have to look really hard. Doubt you have the stamina. If research were your forte, you wouldn’t thrive on fabricating lies and propaganda in Unz posts.

    Yes, what kind of government (apart from the obedient vassal Canada) glorifies Stepan Bandera?

    A far better one than one that glorifies Lenin and Stalin. And we all know, those monsters are your beloved gods, though they were millions of times worse than Bandera.

  313. annamaria says:

    “…you just fabricate idiotic stuff…”
    – Could you be more precise, instead of making ad hominem attacks? (that are quite childish, I would add).

    “If you look really really really hard, you just might, might, find someone who is wrong more often than Saker.”
    – I do not believe in immaculate conception. Do you?

    …though they were millions of times worse than Bandera.”
    – Why don’t you stay on point and ponder for a sec about the open cooperation between zionists and neo-Nazi? And don’t forget about the jail terms and other persecution of those researchers that dare to question the Shoah-biz numbers.

    “As to volatairenet, it is not a reliable source.”
    – What is wrong with this statement on Obama’s bloody legacy? — “In December 2014, Henry Kravis created his own Intelligence agency, the KKR Global Institute. He nominated at its head the ex-Director of the CIA, General David Petraeus. With the Kravis couple’s private funds (the KKR investment funds), and without referring to Congress, Petraeus pursued operation « Timber Sycamore » which had been initiated by President Barack Obama. This was the largest weapons traffic in History, implicating at least 17 states and representing many thousands of tons of weapons worth several billion dollars. As such, Kravis and Petraeus became the main suppliers for Daesh.”

    – Are you ready to parrot the MSM memes about Obama and about “moderate terrorists” and “freedom fighters” (well-financed by the ZUSA / UK) in Syria and Libya? If you do not agree with Thierry Meyssan, then you need to present a valid facts that do contradict the reports of the exceptionally courageous and principled journalists, such as Vanessa Beeley and Dilyana Gaytandzhieva: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-28/journalist-interrogated-fired-story-linking-cia-and-syria-weapons-flights

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article189802.html

    • Replies: @Melotte 22
  314. @annamaria

    Just ignore him. His hatred towards anything Russian is appalling.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply -


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All The Saker Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
The sources of America’s immigration problems—and a possible solution
The evidence is clear — but often ignored
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Hundreds of POWs may have been left to die in Vietnam, abandoned by their government—and our media.