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Trump Claims He Canceled an Airstrike Against Iran at the Very Last Minute
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The first thing to say here is that we have no means to know what really happened. At the very least, there are two possible hypotheses which could explain what took place:

1) a US provocation: it is quite possible that somebody in the US chain of command decided that Iran should be put under pressure and that having US UAV fly right next to, or even just inside, the international border of Iran would be a great way to show Iran that the US is ready to attack. If that is the case, this was a semi-success (the Iranians had to switch on their radars and attack the UAV which is very good for US intelligence gathering) and a semi-failure (since the Iranians were clearly unimpressed by the US show of resolve).

2) an Iranian provocation: yup, that is a theoretical possibility which cannot reject prima facie: in this scenario it was indeed the Iranians who blew up the two tankers last week and they also deliberately shot down the US UAV over international waters. The goal? Simple: to show that the Iranians are willing and ready to escalate and that they are confident that they will prevail.

Now, in the real world, there are many more options, including even mixes of various options. What matters is now not this, as much as Trump’s reaction:

Now, whether this was a US provocation or an Iranian one – Trump’s reaction was the only correct one. Why? Because the risks involved in any US “more than symbolic strike” would be so great as to void any rationale for such a strike in the first place. Think of it: we can be very confident that the Iranian military installations along the Persian Gulf and the southern border of Iran are highly redundant and that no matter how successful any limited US missile strike would have been, the actual military capabilities of Iran would not have been affected. The only way for the US to effectively degrade Iranian capabilities would be to have a sustained, multi-day, attack on the entire southern periphery of Iran. In other words, a real war. Anything short of that would simply be meaningless. The consequences of such an attack, however, would be, in Putin’s words “catastrophic” for the entire region.

If this was an Iranian provocation, then it was one designed to impress upon the Empire that Iran is also very much “locked, cocked and ready to rock”. But if that is the case, there is zero change that any limited strike would achieve anything. In fact, any symbolic US attack would only signal to the Iranians that the US has cold feet and that all the US sabre-rattling is totally useless.

I have not said such a thing in many months, but in this case I can only admit that Trump did the right thing. No limited attack also makes sense even if we assume that the Empire has made the decision to attack Iran and is just waiting for the perfect time. Why? Because the longer the Iranian feel that an attack is possible, the more time, energy and money they need to spend remaining on very high alert.

The basic theory of attack and defense clearly states that the attacking side can gain as a major advantage if it can leave the other side in the dark about its plans and if the costs of being ready for a surprise attack are lower than the costs of being on high alert (those interested in the role and importance of surprise attack in the theory of deterrence can read Richard Betts’ excellent book “Surprise Attack: lessons for defense planning“).

How true is this story about Trump canceling a US attack at the last minute? It is impossible to know, but it appears to me that it is certain that the nutcase Neocons around Trump wanted the strike. But it is also plausible (if by no means certain) that at least two groups could have opposed such a strike:

1) The planners at CENTCOM and/or the Pentagon.

2) The planners for Trump’s reelection campaign.

The first ones would lobby against such a strike simply on the sound military grounds mentioned above. As for the second group, they probably decided (correctly) that if Trump starts a war with Iran which nobody has an “exit strategy” for – this could result in a huge blowback for the entire region and kill Trump’s reelection chances.

In this case, whether Trump listened to either group or simply followed his gut instincts, it appears likely that Trump (maybe a “collective Trump”) said “no, I don’t authorize this”. In this case, he does deserve our sincere praise and gratitude (irrespective of this past actions and inactions).

In conclusion, I want to show the kind of fantastically stupid, mindbogglingly ignorant and criminally irresponsible war propaganda the so-called “conservative” US media outlets have been spewing. Check out this one:

Hannity’s flagwaving logorrhea is exactly the kind of total nonsense which will sooner or later result in a major military disaster followed by a collapse of the Empire itself (for a detailed outline of how this is likely to happen, please read John Michael Greer superb book “Twilight’s Last Gleaming“). The sheer number of counter-factual and plainly stupid things Hannity manages to squeeze into just under 7 minutes is, by itself, a remarkable feat.

Yes, it is a sad day when one has to rejoice that the US President is marginally less stupid and less ignorant than one of the big talking heads on the US idiot box, but these are truly tragic and extremely dangerous times. And in such times, we have to be grateful for anything, no matter how minimal, which pushes back the inevitable war in the Middle-East (or even the world).

This being said, where do we go from here?

Location of the attacks on tankers
Location of the attacks on tankers

My personal guesstimate and almost baseless speculation is that the attack on the two tankers was probably an Israeli false flag operation which failed to achieve its intended results. Notice that the attack itself did not take place inside Strait of Hormuz, but south of it, in comparatively more open waters were an Israeli submarine or specialized surface vessel had less changes to be spotted by the Iranians and a much better chance of escape (for example, take a look at the 2nd map shown below and see for yourself how the depth gradient rapidly drops in the Gulf of Oman).

When this attacked failed to achieve the desired effect, the Israelis and their Neocon agents decided to engage into another provocation, this time using a US drone. I find it likely that in terms of location, the drone was flying inside Iranian airspace, but probably still over water allowing the Empire do claims it’s usual (and CIA-created) cop-out of “plausible deniability” in case of shootdown.

ORDER IT NOW

When the Iranians shot down the US UAV, a lot of folks in the US probably wanted to find out exactly where this UAV was flying at the moment of intercept and since the Iranians probably have a lot of radar and EW data to prove that the UAV was inside the Iranian airspace the only safe course of action would have been to express all forms of protest but not to take unilateral (and, therefore illegal) action.

It is also remarkable that the US has requested that the case of the two tankers and the shooting down of the drone be discussed at the UNSC. Considering that both Russia and China will veto any resolution condemning Iran, this also appears to be a move to find a pretext not to go to war.

Of course, this might also be a strategic PSYOP destined to lull the Iranians into a false sense of security. If that is the plan, it will fail: the Iranians have lived with a AngloZionist bullseye painted on their heads ever since 1979 and they are used to live under constant threat of war.

In conclusion, I am currently very slightly optimistic (48-52%) that the US will not attack Iran in the short term.

In the long term, however, I consider that an AngloZionist attack is a quasi certainty.

PS: a pretty decent topographical map of the Strait of Hormuz

I high resolution topological map of the Strait of Hormuz
I high resolution topological map of the Strait of Hormuz
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Donald Trump, Iran, Neocons 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    …the longer the Iranian feel that an attack is possible, the more time, energy and money they need to spend remaining on very high alert.

    Yep.
    Men and material getting tired.
    Tired men and material make mistakes.

    Smart.

    As I’ve said plenty of times before, the “beauty” of the setup is that TPTBs simply create a climate for a mistake resulting in loss of life of American personnel.
    BANG.

    Or, you put two combat forces next to each other and ramp up the tension.
    Just a matter of time.

    I am currently very slightly optimistic (48-52%) that the US will not attack Iran in the short term.
    In the long term, however, I consider that an AngloZionist attack is a quasi certainty.

    Yep.
    Short term being 3 months (related to the first paragraph).
    Long term any time after that.

    • Replies: @Rabbitnexus
    , @Beckow
  2. Sean Hannity lives in the largest Mansion in Lloyd Neck…I have driven past his Mansion to get a look as to just how big it is…IT’S HUGE…..Lloyd Neck has the most expensive zip code in the US…..Hannity the Chicken-Hawk thinks he is even tougher Chicken-Hawk War Hawk now that he studies MMA Serra Brazilian Ji-jitsu on Jericho Turnpike…..Yesterday Sean Hannity”My philosophy is you hit me….I hit you back ten times harder”….of course, Sean will be hiding in his mega-Mansion in Lloyd Neck……….as the US Cargo Planes land in Virginia with a 100 stainless steel coffins containing the bodies…headless bodies of Native Born White American Working Class Young Men…Donald and Melania step inside the cargo bay to view the stainless steel coffins…..

    Sean Hannity should be forced onboard into the cargo-bays of these US AIRFORCE CARGO PLANES…..tied to a chair….forced to view these stainless steel coffins…FULL VIEW-OPEN at the corpses inside……for a week…..

    Sean Hannity’s Mansion in Lloyd Neck is built on a foundation……a mile deep…..of the rotting corpses of one million Iraqis and the rotting corpses of the Working Class Native Born White Christian American Male Canon Fodder who were murdered in these (((NEOCON))) Wars of Aggression in the Middle East…

    Sean Hannity is a PUSSY AND A FAGGOT!!!

  3. A123 says:

    Military action needs to support the underlying political goals. And, the political goal is to stop the Iranian regime from threatening and destabilizing the region.

    Would killing 150+ Iranians help dislodge the violent regime? No. Thus, the proposed strike did not align with the political goal. Trump was right to cancel it.

    Think of it as the Putin Playbook. Did Putin go for mass casualties when Turkey shot down one of its fighters in 2015? No. Both Putin and Trump show similar strength. Restraint against precipitous, ill conceived, and overly bloody actions.

    _____

    Trump realizes that the Iranian people are the victims of sociopath Kahmeni. There will be a response with minimal bloodshed. Instead it will focus on the regime. Deepening the divide between the Iranian people and their despotic leaders prepares the path for internal forces to replace those leaders.

    Oil storage is a likely choice. The tanks are large and spilled oil is highly visible. It would demonstrate the inability of the regime to stop the U.S. Storage facilities are visible to the public, so the government would have trouble denying or misrepresenting the event. Port facilities would also be a good choice, although that would be harder to time for few to no casualties.

    PEACE

  4. El Dato says:

    very slightly optimistic (48-52%)

    That’s going overboard on precision though.

    …and what’s with the oil refinery in Pennsylvania going up into balls of flame. I hope this won’t get dragooned into an “Iranian sleeper cell attack”.

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  5. @A123

    Another Israeli telling Americans they will be welcomed in Iran with flower covered streets. This guy doesn’t give a shit about the US.

    • Agree: RobinG, Buck Ransom
    • Replies: @sally
    , @Realist
    , @KA
    , @turtle
  6. The provocations have to be such that domestic acquiescence in elite war profit taking will not be disturbed. That requires a series of propaganda events ramping up for domestic consumption.

  7. El Dato says:

    https://news.antiwar.com/2019/06/21/trump-called-off-attack-on-iran-with-10-minutes-to-spare/

    10 minutes from striking is worryingly close, and Trump’s disclosures on the matter are troubling. Apparently it was only at this late hour that Trump came around to asking for specifics on how many Iranians his order would kill. The generals told him approximately 150.

    This was the game-changer, and Trump was nominally ordering this attack over the shoot down of a single US surveillance drone, and he rightly noticed that killing 150 people was not very proportionate to that, fortunately, he called the attack off before the first missiles were fired.

    Trump went on to issue a flurry of Tweets saying Iran would never be allowed to have nuclear weapons, which of course this entire almost-attack had not a thing to do with. He also bragged about how much damage the US sanctions have done to Iran and how weakened Iran already is.

    Troublingly though, administration hawks were still able to get Trump to sign off on the attack earlier on Thursday, and his assurances on Twitter suggest that the loss of the single drone really didn’t enter into it as a big issue for him. This raises ongoing concerns that having called off the Thursday attack, Trump might be sold on a lesser attack at any time, or at least something nominally different that gets carried out before he gets around to asking about the casualties.

    HONK! HONK!

  8. @A123

    Why would you end your mis-analysis where you justify war with the word PEACE?

    Spelling it out in all CAPS?

    You are seriously proposing that the US has the right to judge the government of another country and to deliberately destabilize that country in order to oerturn its governemtn?

    Do you realize that economic sanctions are considered to be acts of war?

    In other words, you support acts of war and think that is PEACE?

    Are you insane?

  9. El Dato says:
    @A123

    Military action needs to support the underlying political goals. And, the political goal is to stop the Iranian regime from threatening and destabilizing the region.

    Yeah. Makes total sense from an Israeli/Saudi perspective. When bullshit is all there is, Hollywood logic can be used to explain the world!

    Trump realizes that the Iranian people are the victims of sociopath Kahmeni.

    I hope you have been given a sheet with talking points, otherwise I pity you.

    PEACE

    Top Ironik.

    • Replies: @turtle
  10. El Dato says:

    The Deep State never rests.

    Dual treason sandwich via Reuters for Mr. Trump.

    It’s really like living in a Nazi regime, with Heydrich walking the corridors, blackmailing and manipulating and “disposing of” problem factors.

    Iran’s top national security official has denied a Reuters report claiming that Tehran had received a low-key message via Oman from the US warning of an imminent attack on the Islamic Republic.

    “The US didn’t send any message,” Keyvan Khosravi, spokesman for the National Security Council, told Iranian television.

    The comment dismissed a previous report by Reuters, which cited unnamed Iranian officials as saying that Donald Trump had warned Tehran of a military strike and also gave a time to respond. The message was reportedly delivered via Oman and followed the downing of a US spy UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) earlier in the week.

  11. HEREDOT says:

    A handful of psychopaths determine our destiny. What makes us different from animals?

  12. A political coitus interruptus.

    DR. STRANGELOVE lite.

  13. MarkinLA says:

    Well what is the range of the missile that hit the drone? It is it less than the 20 mile limit, you have your answer if the drone was in Iranian air space.

    • Replies: @turtle
  14. Hmm, so they shot down a drone; would they be able to shoot down every American plane that entered their airspace? A good reason to call off the strike; if the Iranians had a missile lock on every American plane. Having all their planes shot down would be an even worse defeat for the United States than just calling off an attack.

    Putin checks Trump.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  15. lavoisier says: • Website
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Sean Hannity is a PUSSY AND A FAGGOT!!!

    Mostly just an idiot and a Zionist whore.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Realist
    , @Al Liguori
  16. TheJester says:

    The Iranians might be deciding to stand firm against US sanctions and other provocations as de facto acts of war before the sanctions do materially impact the Iranian economy and its military capability.

    Recall the chicanery through which the United States surreptitiously provoked Japan into attacking the United States at Pearl Harbor so that FDR, a committed Anglophile, could enter the European war through the back door to save his British friends.

    1. Via economic sanctions, the United States and its European colonial allies systematically denied Japan the resources it needed to sustain its population and its industrial economy.

    2. Japan decided that it would have to act to obtain those resources … or, accept its eventual demise as a nation state.

    3. FDR hinted to the Dutch that the newly-positioned naval resources at Pearl Harbor would attack and cut the Japanese lines-of-communication per chance Japan struck south to obtain oil, rubber, and other resources in Southeast Asia. This was intentionally leaked to the Japanese.

    4. The United States monitored the locations and progress of the Japanese fleet en route to Pearl Harbor to protect its exposed flank per the above. Japanese naval resources were under a communications blackout. However, the Japanese merchant marine supporting those forces were not. The US monitored their locations as a proxy for the location of the Japanese fleet. The rest is history …

    The Iranians are in a similar position: either fight now at the peak of their military power … or, fight for survival later at a significant economic and military disadvantage. Like the Japanese, the Iranians would be wise to do the former. This strategy optimizes their chances for national survival.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Popeye
    , @EoinW
    , @sally
  17. MarkinLA says:
    @kerdasi amaq

    The first thing in is missiles that target air defense batteries. I doubt the US is worried about Iran shooting down every plane. The drone probably was flying a steady even course and took no evasive maneuvers unlike an attacking aircraft. The success rate of surface to air missiles is not very high.

    • Replies: @tomgreg
  18. MarkinLA says:
    @TheJester

    1. Via economic sanctions, the United States and its European colonial allies systematically denied Japan the resources it needed to sustain its population and its industrial economy.

    BS. The embargo was because Japan continued to occupy part of China. All they had to do was go back home. Did FDR do it to get us into the war? Maybe, but Hitler was under no obligation to declare war on the US since Japan did not declare war on the USSR when Hitler attacked the USSR.

  19. @restless94110

    ‘Are you insane?’

    I imagine A123 thinks of himself as a Zionist instead.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  20. Biff says:

    No limited attack also makes sense even if we assume that the Empire has made the decision to attack Iran and is just waiting for the perfect time. Why? Because the longer the Iranian feel that an attack is possible, the more time, energy and money they need to spend remaining on very high alert.

    Then

    ,

    this might also be a strategic PSYOP destined to lull the Iranians into a false sense of security. If that is the plan, it will fail: the Iranians have lived with a AngloZionist bullseye painted on their heads ever since 1979 and they are used to live under constant threat of war.

    Make up your mind.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  21. @A123

    Tell your masters in Haifa that they really are not churning out the good ones. We see right through you.

    • Replies: @Greg Bacon
  22. Truth says:

    Haha. Camacho has been watching too many movies with Morgan Freeman as President.

  23. Anonymous[607] • Disclaimer says:
    @Biff

    learn the difference between tactics and strategy.

    • Replies: @Biff
  24. Talha says:

    Trump Claims He Canceled an Airstrike Against Iran at the Very Last Minute

    I one hundred percent support letting The Orange One continue on with his awesome cowboy delusions as long as it keeps a war from starting.

    My reaction:
    “Wow, sir! You have such self-control! Those Iranians don’t know how close they were to you just kicking them back to the Stone Age! It’s great that the better (wiser and more patient) side of you won out in the end – you are awesome!”

    Peace.

    • LOL: turtle
    • Replies: @neprof
  25. @A123

    Iran – no aggressive use of force for over 200 years. Sorry, you’re choosing the wrong people for your propaganda.

  26. RobinG says:

    TUCKER CARLSON IS A HERO

    Tucker: US came within minutes of war with Iran

  27. RobinG says:
    @lavoisier

    https://politics.theonion.com/u-s-claims-drone-was-minding-own-business-on-its-way-t-1835695562

    WASHINGTON—Maintaining that the unmanned aerial vehicle was simply going about its day without posing a threat to anyone, U.S. Department of State officials claimed Thursday that one of their drones was minding its own business on its way to church when Iran attacked it out of nowhere. “This was an outrageous, unprovoked attack by the Islamic Republic of Iran on an innocent drone who merely wanted to attend mass in peace,” said acting Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, emphasizing the drone’s upstanding moral character by pointing out its history of donating to charity, volunteering at soup kitchens, and making homemade cookies for school bake sales. “We’re talking about a drone that sings in the church choir and coaches little league baseball games on the weekends—an absolute pillar of the community. This is an upstanding family drone who did nothing to deserve any sort of attack. What kind of world do we live in where an innocent drone can’t fly through Iranian air space on its way to church?” At press time, Department of Defense officials confirmed that their request for Iran to return the drone’s body back to the U.S. for a proper burial had gone unanswered.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Parfois1
  28. Miggle says:
    @MarkinLA

    Read Frazier Hunt, The Untold Story of Douglas MacArthur.

    TheJester is right.

    Yes, China was under Japanese occupation. The Chinese Communists were fighting the Japs. The USA was supporting the side that was not fighting the Japs but the Communists, being, the USA, fanatically anti-communist.

    My guess is that the USA forced Japan into war because of the economic potential of China, i.e. they wanted to take Japan’s place.

    And the USA didn’t side with Hitler but with the other side because they didn’t know Indian independence would come immediately after the War. So they sided with the Brits because of the apparent economic potential of the British Empire. If India had gained independence just before the war the USA would have sided with Hitler, because then, without India, German Europe would have had a greater economic potential than the British Empire.

  29. Alfred says:

    The Iranians claim that a manned spy plane was next to the drone (i.e. that it also was in their territory) but that they chose not to shoot it down since 35 soldiers were on board.

    “Along with the American drone was an American P8 aircraft with 35 on board, and it was also violating our airspace and we could have downed it too,” he said, adding, “But we did not do [shoot down] it, because our aim was to warn the terrorist forces of the US.”

    http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13980331000471

    To me, a total cynic, it looks like the Americans attempted a repeat of the incident when they deliberately misled their sailors so that they sailed into Iranian territorial waters. I guess they messed up the GPS for them.

    “Iran releases video of captured American sailor crying ”

    https://nypost.com/2016/02/10/iran-releases-video-of-captured-american-sailor-crying/

    I too would cry if I realised that my superiors had set me up as a sacrificial lamb.

    Let’s not forget the attempt to sink the USS Liberty. That was a joint operation between the US Deep State and Israel to try and get the US to attack Egypt.

    “‘But Sir, It’s an American Ship.’ ‘Never Mind, Hit Her!’ When Israel Attacked USS Liberty”

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her-1.5492908

  30. Popeye says:
    @TheJester

    But…why were sanctions imposed on Japan? Because Japan was acting in violation of international law? Well yes due to Japanese imperial aggression against China. In 1935-40 Japan was no angelic virgin. It committed unprovoked aggression against China, committed massive war crimes and crimes against humanity. Yes FDR likely wanted to have USA enter the Pacific war to enable war against Hitler but the crippling sanctions against Japan had a legitimate basis. To punish Japan for aggression in China

  31. Alfred says:

    It looks like the Americans are having a false flag feast. 🙂

    The positions in Iraq – whether directly or indirectly connected to the US interests in Iraq – for example Baghdad, Basra and al-Taji base to Northwest of Baghdad and Nineveh operations command headquarters in Northern Iraq have come under Katyusha missile attacks in recent day, the Al-Akhbar newspaper reported.

    The paper reiterated that the missile attacks have taken place as a result of recent regional tensions, and said that the US officials are trying to portray the attacks as messages by Iran after al-Fujaira and the Sea of Oman mishaps.

    It noted that no group has claimed responsibility for the recent missile attacks on Iraqi cities.

    Sources close to Hashd al-Sha’abi Commander Abu Mohandes al-Mahdi, meantime, categorically dismissed any accusations against the Iraqi popular and resistance forces, and said that the Americans themselves are most probably behind some of these attacks because some of the missiles are made in the US.

    http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13980331000382

  32. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    Has there been any mention of … ahem … the need for a Congressional declaration before the President can act as Commander-In-Chief?

    Further evidence that the Constitution is dead.

  33. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @HEREDOT

    Mr. Saker left out the inconvenient fact that while that drone was indeed flying over Iranian air space, a much larger target, the Poseidon P8 was flying nearby. The P8 is a converted Boeing 737, making for a much larger radar profile for that missile. The P8 has many ASW capabilities, and also can control drones.

    It’s usual crew numbers nine, but this one had 35 sacrificial lambs packed onboard, to be murdered by the (((Deep State))) to push Trump into the corner, with the (((MSM))) screaming that it was Iran’s fault, no proof needed or lies fabricated–just like the illegal invasion of Iraq–to give Israel what it’s demanding that its American colony do: Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

    My guess is that the American thugs behind this latest FF attempt were hoping the Iranian surface-to-air missile would of shifted its initial target–the drone– and went for the much larger P8.

    That Butcher Boy Bolton and his fellow homicidal maniacs failed means that more Americans are being lined up in their cross-hairs, ready to be sacrificed for the glory of Apartheid Israel.

    If that is the plan, it will fail: the Iranians have lived with a AngloZionist bullseye painted on their heads ever since 1979 and they are used to live under constant threat of war.

    Wrong, Saker, the Iranians have been getting attacked by America and the Brits since we overthrew their democratically elected prez in 1953, because he had the audacity to think and say that the majority of Iran’s oil revenues should be going to Iranians, not Wall Street.

    • Agree: Alfred, By-tor, HEREDOT, Parfois1
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Jacques Sheete
  34. @BengaliCanadianDude

    Agreed. If Israel want to attack Iran, go ahead, but they won’t, because they know they’d get their asses kicked unless Uncle Sucker was leading the way.

    Or maybe Israel could send in its fearsome DIAPER BRIGADES to wreak havoc in Tehran?

    The diaper reference is not a joke, it’s fact that the IDF has issued combat nappies to their troops, who let loose their bladder anytime they engage REAL men with guns who shoot back. But let’s give credit where its due, when it comes to shooting Palestinian kids with slingshots or medics, Israel is #1.

    • Agree: Robjil
  35. @peterAUS

    Iran has been living with the same threat since 1979. The result is a hugely popular military and IRGC which is one of the best career choices in the country. It’s a way of life for the nation to be under siege by now and for Shia Muslims the idea of being ready to fight to the death always hovers due to the history of Islam with respect to the Sunni/Shia divide. This disagreement is extreme, to be a Muslim and understand it is to feel horror! ; and despair at the idea any reconciliation is even possible between the two sects and a shared history does not make for a shared point of view. Shias have always been outnumbered and it was us who were targeted for extreme violence in the end (or the begginning) when a dispute over leadership turned bitter. Successive Islamic powers have attempted to exterminate Shias and the latest incarnation of the Salafis begginning with Wahhabism (nurtured by the Rothschild controlled British SS at the end of the Ottoman Empire) and lately morphed into Takfirism which is Daesh and their ilk, have always sought out Shias first and foremost for attack.

    The Islamic Republic of Iran is firstly an Islamic Republic in full revolutionary mode, (as opposed to ‘fundamentalist’) it is also in a close second the “Capital” of Shia Islam and what I have described is the history of Iran and the times the Persian state was not an Islamic one are no less a part of the historical memory of the nation. Even those times (which invariably ended in defeat for Persia) reinforce the idea that it is as an Islamic state Iran stands best chance of survival and the confidence that if they remain true to these principles they will prevail is backed by an unbroken history of successful defense as a righteous Islamic state. This may be beyond many of the younger generation and ignored by the wealthy older generation Iranians but it must be ingrained in the political and social cosnciousness of the political and religious and intellectual elite.

    Iran is ready. They have always been ready in one sense. Saddan Hussein who attacked them when they were at their weakest and still lived to regret it could attest to that if he was still around to talk. That war in which the USA gave full and unconditional support to their protege Saddam who only became their enemy when he became a better man and leader later on in time, was a wake up call to Iranian leadership and the nation as one. They knew that they needed missiles and a very strong defensive posture and that is what they have. F^ck with them at your peril I say.

    I doubt myself the USA will attack Iran, at least as long as they have ships and troops within 1000 miles of Iran. That includes towing their static aircraft carrier “Israel” out of range as well.

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @anonymous
  36. sally says:
    @2stateshmustate

    agree, the comment that “the USA is taking the events to the UN is loaded with false something or other..

    Iran initiated the UN hearing AFAIK and IRAN says it will present evidence that it was the USA’s intention.. to do the deeds ..<=personally, my feeling is neither Russia nor China will veto .. anything about these deeds.. the only veto will come from Article II of the COUS , present leader [one Mr. Trumpy]. who is elected not by popular vote of the govern people in America but instead by the hidden behind the scene, state to state vote of the electoral college.. .. <== you mean all that to-do every four years to elect a president: democrats vs republicans beating each other up, newspapers collecting billions in contribution dollars to publish fake I hate you slogans, and he saids, you saids: dey all be fake news, propaganda erotic? yep.. sure enough is. dem guys dat rites dem Konstitutions ain’t no dummies deys knows vat ve good fore dem. Read Article II, sections 2 and 3.. you see..
    Popular vote elects the Article I folks ( 525 in all: 425 members of the house of congressional districts (Art. 1, Section 2), and 100 Senators (amendment 17, proposed 1912, approved 1913federal reserve(act of congress), income tax (amendment 16) both also 1913 ),

    =>but Article I (section 2 and amendment 17 ) folks have no power to act.. as powerless buffoons ..they are authorized only to approve a few things, try cases of Treason, and make the laws, fund the actions, wants and needs demanded by Article II persons. It takes 2/3 of each a divided Senate and 2/3 of a divided House [Art. I, sec 7[2,3] to over-power the Art II privilege of veto.. and

    ==get this=> Article II persons are charged to enforce the law( Art II, section 2 [3] he[the President} shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed. Where is Hillary? I see no words making such duty to enforce the law optional (so does the AG have an option that the President does not, .) ?

    misguided Saker ?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  37. Zumbuddi says:
    @Fran Macadam

    . . . Timed to force Congress to vote on a declaration of war just before elections.

  38. Zumbuddi says:
    @HEREDOT

    Have you ever seen an obese deer?

    • LOL: HEREDOT
  39. I am in full agreement with the author about who was most likely behind the attacks on the ships and how the two separate attacks were done. Even down to accepting the possibility Iran was behind some or all of this as provocation for the reasons given. If so it would mean they are hurting badly and need to bring things to a head fast. This does not fit with my observations of Iranian leadership which has always demonstrated a very long term and patient, typically oriental approach to logjams in diplomacy and nothing has happened to suggest they are suddenly feeling extremely more pain than previously. In short it is possible but I doubt it.

    To my mind the things which speak against the Iranians having attacked the tankers the second time at least are substantial: Both ships were Japanese owned. This attack as such was against Japanese interests WHILST the Japanese PM (Japanese death cult and mafia associations and all) was making a historical visit to Tehran! What sort of dung for brains clowns would invite someone for dinner and then send the kids out to set fire to their car whilst they dined? Of course Washington would do something like this (shooting missiles at Syria whilst enjoying a lovely piece of cake with their Chinese ally…ffs…) but Iran? Give me a break.

    Secondly if Iran was guilty, how come the USA is lying like a cheap rug from the get go? The video the US Navy quickly produced is PROOF they are lying. The black and white imagery does NOT hide the distinctly different paint jobs on the ship depicted and the actual one involved. Whatever that video is, it is NOT a video of either of the ships involved in the second incident. So if Iran was guilty why is the USA using fabricated evidence to assert it?

    The claim that the Iranians tried unsuccesfully to shoot down a Reaper drone which was according to the USA monitoring the ship BEFORE IT WAS ATTACKED was what stuck in my craw from the start. What the hell was a REAPER Drone doing monitoring that particular ship at that particular time? Is this a common practice? Reaper drones are NOT recon drones they carry hellfire missiles and kill things! When you consider the reports by the crew, as relayed by the Japanese company owner about a flying object just before the explosion and the pictures of the damage which clearly show fairly small holes about half way between the gunwale and waterline the conclusion these were small missiles is hard to avoid. Indeed HELLFIRE missiles would fit the bill nicely.

    As for attacking Iran I do not believe that the USA will dare start anything, especially now, so long as they have troops and ships within range of Iranian missiles. Iranian missiles power is immense and an unknown because they do not know where it all is, and they do know much of it is very, very well hardened against attack. IF they do start a war with Iran whilst they have assets in the region, invluding “Israel” then they have completely lost their minds and I’d say the war will end very fast and hard for them. Not even going nuclear will do it. They are deluded if they think so. Nukes are not magic, they are just big bombs and even the radiation component is not a big deal these days. (few realise it but modern nukes are quite ‘clean’) Iran is a vast country and well dug in over millenia. However unleashing a full nuclear war against a non nuclear state will end the USA forever as a world citizen in every way. There is no solution for the USA except to make peace or back off. They can plan and scheme all they like but Allah is the best of planners.

  40. @Fran Macadam

    Well if that line of turkeys pecking at the crumbs of provocations unfolding which purport to involve Iran keep on gobbling on cue they are going to realise too late they just walked into the slaughter house. Iran will send home many thousands of their boys and girls in body bags and sink their ships but the real hurt will be the end of the US economy. They’ll be missing even allegorical crumbs when they only have dirt to eat.

  41. El Dato says:
    @MarkinLA

    Japan continued to occupy part of China (and viciously so, clearly stamping on the foot of white-colonial interests with their homegrown late-comer colonialism) but i mainly started to challenge US power in the Pacific, and with strong determination.

    Explainer:

    China nowadays has this role. This is why the US is interested in a “first strike” nuclear posture. This is gonna be fun.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @MarkinLA
  42. Sean says:

    Iran’s War for higher Oil prices

    Israel does not have the ability to deceive the US, and why would it need to with Trump in power? American fracking technology has greatly limited Iranian ability to cause trouble. If it was the Iranians that did the limpet mine attack on international shipping then what would their objective have been? Clearly they don’t want more any real war or even more sanctions. What they do want is create demand for their oil and sell it at a good price. The price of oil is already up from the mere tension over the limpet mine and shootdown and had there been US military action oil prices would have gone much higher. I see this whole affair as a sign that the Iranian regieme is getting desperate, because America’s slow smothering strategy is working. Iran wants to breack out of its current situation and Trump is walking them into that.

    Israel will do nothing, the partisan supporters of Israel in the US can be kept quiet on the immigration Issue by throwing them a bone (as Trump has been doing). Iran want to rase oil prices and create demand for its oil, that is all. Hitting Iran, but quite lightly, is the best option for Trump if he wants to win reelection. And so he will hit Iran at a time of his choosing, which will probabally be closer to the election. The armed forces of America or any other country are not for enforcing international law or notions of fair play, but rather for defending that country’s interests. Iran and Trump’s agendas converge on a clash well short of all out war in the very near future.

    • Replies: @Cleburne
  43. Occam’s Razor suggests Trump got news that the drone was indeed inside Iranian airspace and decided for once to call BS.

    Besides, in the great scheme of things, one lost drone doesn’t make up for the USS Vincennes killing 290 people on Iran Air 655 by shooting it down in Iranian Airspace. When the Empire warned that civil aircraft were not safe in the airspace, it wasn’t the Iranian forces they were warning about.

  44. El Dato says:
    @El Dato

    Pearl Harbor explained:

  45. Miggle says:
    @Miggle

    Sorry, “My guess” covers all that follows. It’s only my guess that the USA would have sided with Hitler if they’d known India would not be part of the British Empire.

  46. Miggle says:
    @Colin Wright

    So, not insane, inzine.

    Is there a difference?

  47. Art says:

    Our hero Donald J Trump – a courageous man who saved 150 lives and avoided a war, will ride those lives into 2020.

    There will be no war against Iran started by Trump.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Disagree: Republic
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Art
  48. EoinW says:
    @TheJester

    But it wasn’t wise for the Japanese as they were completely defeated.

    The key difference between Japan and Iran is that the Japanese Empire was an aggressor, endlessly invading its neighbours. Iran has not fought an offensive war in 40 years.

    Also have to question you on the time element. Time is on the side of the Asian countries. It’s countries, like Israel, who see this as peak time for military action. Iran has survived 40 years of sanctions and can certainly survive this time, especially with the support of Russia and China. Yet they still must react to military planes threatening their air space. Plus they have no control over oil tankers being targeted by third parties.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  49. Amon says:

    The more I see of this, the more convinced I am that the US as a society is clinically insane.

    Its borders are under attack by what can only be described as an invasion is taking place with millions off illegal immigrants pour across the border to commit crime, steal jobs or mooch of the welfare programs.

    Its cities are decaying with armies of homeless, shit and drugs flooding the streets in ever greater numbers while the working class people flee in great waves.

    Masked and armed criminals roam the streets of major US cities, attack anyone they deem to be a wrong thinker when not busy rioting, stealing and chanting for the deaths of others.

    Its economy is in a bi-polar mood. On one hand the GDP is as high as ever with tons of new jobs getting created, on the other hand the physical economy is shrinking as stores closes and houses go unsold due to half the nation being unable to buy anything but food and clothes.

    In the face of all of these problems, the US Government has decided to put its full attention on overthrowing the government of Venezuela and starting a war with Iran because somehow, those two nations who posed no danger to the US have been declared high priority targets that requires the full spectrum attention and political intervention by the US.

  50. @HEREDOT

    We can killed much more efficiently.

    • Replies: @Realist
  51. RVBlake says:
    @A123

    “There will be a response with minimal bloodshed.” Yes, we are noted for the delicate, nearly bloodless nature of our military reactions, merely focusing on regimes with the full-throated applause of the grateful populaces. It would be a cake-walk, to quote our valiant SecDef Rumsfeld prior to our 2003 Iraqi minimally bloody response.

    And speaking of armchair generalship, I wonder where Trump’s multi-starred consultant got the figure “150” in answer to the question of civilian casualties. This is the kind of clear-sighted strategic vision that has a U. S. victory in Afghanistan just around the corner, to quote our junior Clausewitz’s.

  52. SteveM says:

    But it is also plausible (if by no means certain) that at least two groups could have opposed such a strike:

    1) The planners at CENTCOM and/or the Pentagon.

    Yes, it’s reported that the Pentagon advised Trump not to retaliate militarily for the drone shoot down.

    Given advanced missile technologies, surface warships of any stripe are sitting ducks. I’m guessing that Iran has a plethora of missile batteries up and down its coast. If Iran launched a barrage of missiles simultaneously (10? 20? 30?) at a single surface warship in the Persian Gulf, what would be the probability that the ship’s self-defense systems could neutralize them all?

    If a single multi-billion dollar warship were sunk, the credibility of U.S. naval “power projection” would evaporate. In that context, the Pentagon’s reluctance may be because they’d rather not establish that their hyper-expensive blue-water surface Navy is an anachronism.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  53. alexander says:

    There is a very simple solution to all this, and the sooner it happens the better.

    Everyone who conspired to defraud the US taxpayer into illegal wars (dating back to 2002), should be forced to pay for the cost of the wars they lied us into.

    All the assets of these “deceivers”… should be “seized” ….to pay down the 22 trillion war debt their lies created.

    If there is anything left over , it should be placed in an ” Iran War Escrow Account “.

    This would ensure that the burden of the war costs falls directly on “their” shoulders …and NOT the US taxpayers.

    This seems like a just and fair solution for everybody…., doesn’t it ?

    • Replies: @Realist
  54. @A123

    If this is not proof of what some of these Washington criminals have on their agenda:

    https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pompeo-says-iran-must-listen-us-if-they-want-their-people-eat-1208465

    An authentic act of war before even before firing the first bullet. First, make the economy scream in the tradition of yet another thug masquerading as head of state (Nixon). Second, starve them into submission. Does the first Iraq war resulting in the death of an estimated half a million children denied essential medicines ring a bell? Venezuela is similarly being starved into surrender. Meanwhile Guaido is embezzling the humanitarian aid intended for his needy countrymen.

    All said, the history of our country’s lies and deception going back a long ways, more than speaks for itself.

    • Replies: @Zero
    , @Jacques Sheete
    , @turtle
  55. anon[210] • Disclaimer says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Remember, the Holy Hook states that Working Class Native Born White Christian American Male Canon Fodderowe it to the Jews.”

  56. Zero says:
    @Justsaying

    Of course, starvation is a favorite tactic of OUR international Communist overlords. They’ve used it for decades and killed hundreds of millions of people using it. It’s cheap and easy.

  57. Realist says:

    Trump Claims He Canceled an Airstrike Against Iran at the Very Last Minute

    That is just bullshit.

  58. Realist says:
    @lavoisier

    Mostly just an idiot and a Zionist whore.

    Yes, and there are plenty of them.

  59. sarz says:

    Saker, it would be good to see you spell out where you differ from Bernhard of Moon of Alabama’s assumptions.

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/06/white-house-pushes-trump-pulled-back-story-he-likely-never-approved-to-strike-iran.html

  60. On direct orders from Donald Trump…..the US Military is illegally occupying the sovereign Nation of Syria…….and Trump took a direct order from JEW ONLY ISRAEL to do this…think about it…

    A case can be made that the US strategy is not to go to war with Iran…….but rather, use the boogey man of Iran to justify a 100 year illegal US Military occupation of Syria on behalf of JEW ONLY ISRAEL….

    The late Fat Cockroach Christopher Hitchens justified murdering thousands of Iraqis because it would be good for the Kurds……Well, here is what I say:THE CRYPTO JEW KURDS WERE NEVER WORTH IT….Kurdish autonomy in northern Iraq always meant an IDF presence in Northern Iraq……

  61. Realist says:
    @2stateshmustate

    Yep, A123 is as full of shit as you can get

  62. Realist says:
    @restless94110

    Why would you end your mis-analysis where you justify war with the word PEACE?

    Spelling it out in all CAPS?

    Because he’s a really, really dumbass.

    Do you realize that economic sanctions are considered to be acts of war?

    He doesn’t realize what planet he’s on.

    Are you insane?

    He’s just really low IQ.

  63. Biff says:
    @Anonymous

    learn the difference between tactics and strategy.

    Hey Bill Clinton, is that you?

    Dictionary.com gives almost identical definitions for those terms, so tell us oh wise one – what’s the difference?

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @foolisholdman
  64. @A123

    And, the political goal is to stop the Iranian regime from threatening and destabilizing the region.

    Oh, really! Tsk tsk.

  65. The best analysis of the 225 million dollar MQ-4C drone(more expensive than the F-35) shoot down in my opinion is that of Jim Stone:
    “The drone shot down was an MQ-4C, which is basically a more advanced clone of the Global Hawk. A better score for Iran than a Global Hawk. ADDITIONALLY IMPORTANT: Iran was the one that recovered the debris, the U.S. navy did not, which means Iran was telling the truth about where it was flying to begin with. If they got it, it fell on their turf. It is really blown to smithereens, a direct hit. That’s good for Iran because it proves their missile systems can do it, but it is bad because they don’t have any big pieces. Additionally, there was an American P-8 spy plane accompanying the drone, Iran was able to differentiate between the two, and hit the drone. The P-8 was a much easier target. Iran obviously opted not to hit it because killing it’s crew would have meant war.”

    What everyone needs to be aware of here is “stealth” technology is a total farce, and can be defeated with long wave radar, basically the same system used by England during WWII. The drone shot down was considered a Max Stealth aircraft, same as the F-35. The F-35 and F-22 are basically “hanger queens”(many hours of maintenance required for every hour of flying time), and with their stealth capabilities being defeatable, they are pretty much worthless. Trump did not pull the trigger on this because he figured out the whole thing could go real bad real quick.

    I urge all to read Jim Stones take on this mess: http://82.221.129.208/.wh7.html

  66. Realist says:
    @alexander

    Everyone who conspired to defraud the US taxpayer into illegal wars (dating back to 2002), should be forced to pay for the cost of the wars they lied us into.

    Everyone who conspired to defraud the US taxpayer into illegal wars, their heirs and all who profited from (dating back to 1812), should be forced to pay for the cost of the wars they lied us into.

    FIFY

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @alexander
  67. @Justsaying

    You are correct. This is economic and siege warfare. Flying bullets, etc., add to the drama and consequences, but the war on Iran began many years ago. The vicious clowns are up to the same old tricks, but bullshitting only the willing gulls.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  68. @Zero

    Of course, starvation is a favorite tactic of OUR international Communist overlords.

    Yup. It’s what empires do, and they don’t even give a flip if their own people have to go without either.

  69. @El Dato

    It’s really like living in a Nazi regime …

    No, it’s not. Clearly the Nazis were on the defensive. Lying Abe Lincoln was, in fact, much worse than the Nazis ever thought of being; in a totally different category even.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  70. Iran has not started a war in over 300 years and is not a terrorist nation and does not export terrorism, that title belongs the the unholy trinity of the zio/US and Israel and Britain, the creators and funders and suppliers of AL CIADA aka ISIS and all the various off shoots thereof.

    This war on Iran is a zionist project of the zionists who control the governments of the zio/US and zio/Britain as has been the case in every war in Iraq and Libya and Syria and Yemen and Lebanon , Israel has been the agent provocateur in every one of these wars!

    The zionists have a goal of a satanic zionist NWO and are hell bent to get there if they have to kill off all the goyim and muslims to accomplish it and they are well on their way!

    Read the book Blood In The Water by Joan Mellen on the zio/US and Israeli attack on the USS Liberty for a look at how these two terrorist nations operate!

    • Agree: Robert Dolan, Parfois1
  71. @HEREDOT

    A handful of psychopaths determine our destiny. What makes us different from animals?

    I don’t think other animals have psychopaths of the same species ruling over them nor do they have hasbara clowns spouting sewage and doing worse 24/7, such as the alphanumeric zero, above.

  72. Realist says:
    @Greg Bacon

    Mr. Saker left out the inconvenient fact that while that drone was indeed flying over Iranian air space, a much larger target, the Poseidon P8 was flying nearby. The P8 is a converted Boeing 737, making for a much larger radar profile for that missile. The P8 has many ASW capabilities, and also can control drones.

    If this is true the stupid bastards in control of this country better take note. If the missile, that Iran says they developed, is cabable of distinguishing between a P8 and a drone the US may have a big problem.

  73. @SteveM

    Yup, Trump called this off because he knew America could pay dearly for an attack on Iran.

  74. This is what our Air Force would look like if it was based on war fighting and not making all in the MIC extremely rich.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/03/f-35-replacement-f-45-mustang-ii-fighter-simple-lightweight/

    • Replies: @Amon
  75. Realist says:
    @MarkinLA

    The embargo was because Japan continued to occupy part of China.

    True, but China has been occupied by both the British and US in the past….and not too distant past.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  76. More likely, Trump and his Neocons knew that Iran had proof that the spy drone was shot down over Iran’s territory, that the truth would come out after the U.S. strike, earning the world’s condemnation and making Trump et al look like warmongering fools. That’s what they are, of course, but it gave Trump the chance to pose as a big humanitarian, stopping the strike because, since it was only a plane, with no Americans on board, he didn’t want to “disproportionately” kill anybody. Yeah. Just wait until the Israeli puppets send another plane with Americans on board, it’ll give Israel and our traitorous Neocons the war they’ve been lusting after for a decade or more.

  77. @MarkinLA

    All they had to do was go back home.

    Proof?

    In fact it’s my understanding that the Japanese were bending over backwards in an attempt to avoid war with the US but the Wall Street Commie catamite FDR and his henchmen foiled and insulted them at every turn. The story of how they were repeatedly humiliated would raise the hackles of the least sensitive among us.

    The big picture is that the Wall Street and London Commies were aiming for world hegemony even at their own populations’ expense, of course, and Japan and Germany had to be castrated even if populated and run by angels and innocent choir boys to ensure that they could be turned into industrial slave states. It’s apparent that the scum of the Earth won’t rest until they’ve accomplished their goals as we can clearly see here.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  78. @War for Blair Mountain

    Sean Hannity lives in the largest Mansion in Lloyd Neck…I have driven past his Mansion to get a look as to just how big it is…IT’S HUGE…..Lloyd Neck has the most expensive zip code in the US

    A simple Google search reveals Hannity sold his Lloyd Neck home in 2014, and has lived in Oyster Bay for several years. Also, Lloyd Neck isn’t even in Forbes’ Top 50 Most Expensive Zip Codes; the list is headed by four communities in California and one in Florida.

    I’m not saying Sean isn’t a pussy and a faggot, but your facts are suspect.

  79. @Popeye

    Dear Sir,

    This is the 21st century. Why do you persist in parroting nearly century-old war propaganda?

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @MarkinLA
  80. neprof says:
    @Talha

    Here’s an interesting read about Trump’s thinking on the matter:

    https://tomluongo.me/2019/06/21/who-survives-the-iran-counter-offensive/.

    It references a NYT article,
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/trump-iran-attack.html,

    which states (deep into the article) that the initial report the Drone was in international airspace may have been incorrect.

    Trump should realize his NSA staff is not being honest with him and almost got him to act on bad information. Hopefully this realization of NSA dishonesty makes Trump slow to act on any future occurrences.

    • Replies: @Talha
  81. @anon

    That’s the Deep South Evangelical Christian HOLY HOOK PROBICUS……Evangelical Christians are Satan’s Apostates from HELL….They are the Canon Fodder Enablers of Global Homo……..

  82. Well, I generally disagree: I think, with say 70-80% probability, that there will be no major war between US/Israel and Iran in next 12-18 months. Simply, it won’t happen.

    Most of the analyses stem from false premises & are obscurantist nonsense..

    1. Israel & Jews “hate” & fear Iran as such. On the contrary, Jews are historical fans of anything Iranian for centuries, long before Islam & after it (after all, modern Judaism owes more to Iran than to ancient Judaism). It’s “real whites”, Europeans, that Jews, on a visceral level (OK- many of them, not all) have an aversion to: first against Greeks, then Roman wars in 1st & 2nd C, then Christianity (Crusades, Inquisition, expulsions, Russian pogroms, Holocaust,…). Now, many of this is diluted, but somewhere in plexus solaris, it is fear, trembling & loathing of “whites”, from the Seleucids & Hellenistic Greeks to Hitler & Germans.

    2. nobody here seems to understand that Ayatollahs mean business. They are completely nuts, basically sincere fanatics. Two basic rational objections: they couldn’t have mean this all literally, because: a) they’re not Arabs, so their major concern for Arab Palestinians is somehow disingenuous, b) they’re Shia, unlike 90% Muslim Sunnis, so their pretension to the leadership of the entire Islamic world is absurd: it would be like Pentecostals trying to represent all Protestants.

    But, that’s not the way they think.

    They absolutely & sincerely believe, like pockets of Evangelicals, in grand cataclysmic KABOOM, apocalypse after which all Muslims will, voluntarily, be converted to Shia version of Islam & accept Iranians as some kind supernatural spiritual leaders. This will have happened in some kind of transfigured universe, according to archaic cosmologies, but still a radically transformed earth that will not be like those with laws of physics as we know it.

    So, they’re authentic & sincere fanatics who, unlike similar nuts in other countries- do have power. Even fatso Kim of North Korea is a sober realist compared with them.

    3. on the other hand, there is a strong secular, meritocratic current in Iranian society that would be very willing to dump Ayatollahs , but they’re not strong enough. They are Iranian nationalists who don’t want their country to be exploited by Americans; they, mostly, don’t care about Israel at all; they would focus their energies on booting or superseding Arabs in other countries. They are, essentially, champions of Eternal Iran.

    Just, for now, they’re not powerful enough….

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @turtle
  83. Agent76 says:

    Jun 20, 2019 Iran Downs US Spy Drone: Who’s The Aggressor?

    The downing of a US spy drone near (or within) Iranian airspace has – conveniently for neocons – raised tension and further boxed in President Trump. Pressure on Trump for a military response to Iranian “aggression” will increase. Will he take the bait this time? Or will more such provocations be needed?

    Jun 19, 2019 CUI BONO? Ex Intel Boss Kedmi: Why Would Iran Do Something That Stupid?

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  84. @War for Blair Mountain

    Hannity’s just one guy with microphone. Meanwhile we have thousands of Iranians joined by U.S. Democrats mobilizing in Washington to demand regime change. Are they Israeli agents? Could be, but I doubt it.

    But this is what happens when you allow these people into your country. They form loud and well-organized political blocs designed to get Americans killed and bankrupt the country that welcomed them in. Sure it’s easy to blame one guy at Fox News but the problem is wayyyyy bigger.

  85. alexander says:
    @Realist

    I think dating it back to 1812 is a stretch,

    After all , nearly ” three quarters ” of our entire national debt has been accrued …since 9-11.

    National Debt in 2000…5.8 trillion.

    National Debt in 2019..22.3 trillion.*

    The “mother lode” of overspending (16.4 trillion) has occurred under Neocon tutelage, in the post 9-11 era.

    * source. National Debt clock.

    • Replies: @Realist
  86. @Greg Bacon

    … the Iranians have been getting attacked by America and the Brits since we overthrew their democratically elected prez in 1953 …

    Yes, there’s that but Iran has been in Brit and Russian empire cross hairs for far longer than that.

    Then there’s also the undeclared Allied surprise attack on neutral Iran 3 months before the attack on Pearl in 1941. It’s oil industry was confiscated for use by the Allies and the Allied Persian Corridor was established through which the “freedom loving” Americans supplied Uncle Joey with vast amounts of war materiel.

    • Replies: @By-tor
  87. Agent76 says:

    Jun 21, 2019 Cutting Through Washington’s Warmongering

    The US is committed to conflict not only most obviously against Iran, but also with Russia.

  88. @Realist

    True, but China has been occupied by both the British and US in the past….and not too distant past.

    I guess the Opium Wars get a freebie from him and his co-parrots as well.

  89. Republic says:

    In the long term, however, I consider that an AngloZionist attack is a quasi certainty

    recipe for war with Iran: Turn the pressure cooker to high & bring to the boil

    • Agree: Agent76
    • LOL: turtle
    • Replies: @Agent76
  90. N40 says:

    Anent Grier’s Twilight’s Last Gleaming. One plot point in the book is a bit ethnocentric and unlikely. The constitutional convention is a traditional American masturbatory fantasy. American youngsters are indoctrinated to admire periwigged slavers plotting oligarchy, and when they grow up they spend their miserable cubicle lives tinkering with boxes on org charts. So people fixate on institutional minutiae.

    But if you look at the mechanics of actual collapse, there’s no time to dick around with org charts or constitutions. As contemporary Soviet sources tell it, the USSR’s collapse was so precipitous that all they could do was grab in panic for whatever support was at hand. And what was that? The Helsinki Final Act. That unavoidable reflex has turned Russia into a state with human rights protections superior to those of the US.*

    In the world today sovereignty is responsibility. An aspiring state or successor state assumes responsibility by acceding to three instruments: The UN Charter, the International Bill of Human Rights, and the Rome Statute. That is what the successor states of the USA will do. Because they have to. The boxes on the org charts do not matter. What matters is the state submitting to rigorous international review of its human rights protections.

    So who knows, the final stage of dissolution might end up more like this.

    https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/07/father-of-our-country/

    * Yes, superior. In every top-level respect. See for yourself. Russians get a better deal than you do from their state.
    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Indicators/Pages/HRIndicatorsIndex.aspx

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  91. Why complaining about Bolton?

    Bolton was appointed by Trump.

    Bolton is kept in office by Trump.

    Trump must like Bolton.

    Stop wining.

    Bolton is appointed in his current post by the will of the American people.

  92. @EoinW

    But it wasn’t wise for the Japanese as they were completely defeated.

    Correct. They were defeated from the start, not even having the ability to control even so much as a significant portion of Chinese coastal cities and they never had a firm grip on Manchukuo. The sensible ones knew it but their militarists, through terror, had their way. Wouldn’t be surprised to find that the Japanese militarists were supported by the usual international bankster goons like Lenin and Stalin, and of course, Frankie and Winnie were.

    Anyone who fantasizes that the ruling “elite” give a damn about adhering to “international law” needs a long period of rest because they are not thinking clearly. The only time the law’s considered is when they can manipulate it toward their own goals such as when they claim to be punishing some country for breaches of it.

    Theater. Sometimes deadly, but theater all the time. Now it’s high suspense time; what a thriller, and The Orange Theatrix Maximus, is perfect for the role.

    Meh.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  93. Intercepted memo from JIDF to kushner:

    CONVENE THE COUNCIL, ORANGE GOY NEEDS MORE “EDUCATION.”

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  94. Talha says:
    @neprof

    Thanks for the citations, much appreciated. If this is indeed the case, I hope Trump keeps being cautious about the situation.

    Peace.

  95. KA says:
    @2stateshmustate

    Iran will set the oil wells on fire , hit the oil rigs and attack the refineries .It will also attack US vessels.

    1- Economy will go in flames
    2 Terrorist will serie the opportunity in Saudi in UAE ,Jordan in Bharian. Sisi will fall.
    3 Saudi will lie in ruins
    4 America will not know what to do and will make more wrong drastic decisions
    5 China will seize Taiwan
    6 Russia will stop oil to EU or ask EU to renegotiate everything on its terms
    5 Venezuela will get rid of the opposition and force Columbia and Brazil to change the behaviors
    6 Brazil will suddenly see its corrupt leader has no external prop.
    7 Terrorist will flood North Africa again
    8 Libya will cut UK and USA loose. .
    9 Iran will lie in ruins
    10 USA has its Suez moment.

    But Israel will survive .

    Do the stupid leaders of UAE SAUDI EGYPT know ? Or they think somehow Allah will forgive their impotence, lack of intelligence, lack of capacity .lack of foresight and support their machinations ,murders exploitation abuse, and support their fights to stay in power at any cost including to sucking up to Israel for propaganda and for political legitimacy abroad
    Oh yes,Brexit will reach its legitimate place in geography and history – London and the suburbs constituting the new Great Britain

  96. @N40

    Sweetest capsule summary I’ve ever seen on the subject. :

    The constitutional convention is a traditional American masturbatory fantasy. American youngsters are indoctrinated to admire periwigged slavers plotting oligarchy [while initiating and institutionalizing even more extensive and refined forms of slavery under the pretexts of protecting freedom and establishing limited government] …

  97. Hannity’s flagwaving logorrhea is exactly the kind of total nonsense which will sooner or later result in a major military disaster followed by a collapse of the Empire itself

    As long as Hannity is confined to his cable TV show and whomever watches it, he is relatively harmless, but when the President of the US starts to listen to his nonsense or talk to him in person, then we are in a lot of trouble, and need to either remove Hannity or remove the President. Since the President is a public servant and Hannity is an employee of a commercial enterprise who is making money for his employer by exercising free speech, it is probably easier to drain the swamp by removing the President rather than throwing Hannity in the croc pool.

  98. @A123

    I have said this before:
    The solution to this problem is really simple.
    An ultimatum from the American People to the “israeli” gov, Jews to vacate the land of Historic Palestine within a year and return it to the rightful owners including ALL reparations for the blood and misery they cause to the Palestinians since 1945.

    If NOT, to drop a mini-nuke and get done with them, while at the same time arrest about 10-15 thousand local zio-paths until the situation is clear.

    ONLY THEN THE WORLD WILL SEE REAL PEACE AND PROSPERITY.

    • Replies: @Nonny
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
  99. @Bragadocious

    I’m not for bombing Iran…But I would kick every Iranian and Israeli out of OUR AMERICA…back to Iran and Israel…..

    Iranian “Americans” are a hardcore Democratic Party Voting Bloc…..And that’s a vote for war with Christian Russia…….

  100. @restless94110

    “Are you insane?”

    This is a trick question, right? That troll is not only obviously insane, but retarded as well.

  101. @War for Blair Mountain

    Barbara Bush’s beautiful mind would not waste its time viewing those coffins.

  102. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Your point is asperger-nitpicking…

    If Sean Hannity is living in Oyster Bay….He is living in a mansion in Oyster Bay Cove…And with very high probability his neighbors are billionaires such as James Dolan and Charles Wang……..Oyster Bay Cove is a few miles down along the beach from Sean Hannity’s Mansion in Lloyd Neck…the stretch that starts at Billy Joel’s Pink Villa…Billy used to live there with Christy……at the end of the Llyod Neck Causeway down the beach to Target Rock National Wildlife Refuge where Sean Hannity’s Llyod Neck Mansion right in back of Target Rock Beach where Chinese Legal Immigrants defile the habitat of the endangered Piping Ploving(Ronnie Reagan’s Legal Immigrant Policy in action!!!)……I lived down the road from Sean Hannity in the town of Huntington…and I used to live in Oyster Bay(The Author of Gravity’s Rainbow went to Oyster Bay High School….Did I bump into Pynchon at the Oyster Festival?)….

    You better have a net worth of 100 million-one billion if you want to be able to live in Sean Hannity’s stretch of Lloyd Neck….

  103. neprof says:
    @RobinG

    “How many people would be killed?” Thanks Trump for asking this question, especially with the follow up , ..”proportional response”.

    I like to pose the following choices (“proportional responses”) to my fellow Americans (at least the +60% in favor of military action):

    Which of the following would justify the killing of a 150 Iranians?

    1. It would be a determent to me, specifically and increase in the cost of gasoline. Do it.

    2. It would not effect me much in any way. Do it.

    3. It would benefit me financially. I could use the extra money. Do it.

    4. It would prevent the destruction and death of my immediate family. Do it.

    For those who claim to possess any sort of marginal humanity, only choice 4 should be a consideration. Sadly, most Americans choose door #1.

    • Replies: @EoinW
  104. @Thales the Milesian

    “Bolton is appointed in his current post by the will of the American people.”

    Nonsense. “the American people” have no input whatsoever into the criminal actions of their rulers. Your formula is the one used by the MSM to gull Americans into thinking that they are self-ruled.

    • Agree: Mike P, OEMIKITLOB
    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
  105. @Jacques Sheete

    Jacques Sheete wisely wrote: “Flying bullets, etc., add to the drama and consequences, but the war on Iran began many years ago. The vicious clowns are up to the same old tricks, but bullshitting only the willing gulls.”

    Hey JS!

    Yes, 👍, “bullshitting the willing gulls,” R us!

    Recall how PreZident Bonespur t-Rump fumed and wanted to kill President Basher Assad? Hm. ZUS propaganda announced cooler Neoconservative heads managed to calm him down. Haha.

    Now “Homelanders” are told that the better side of t-Rump, at the last minute, had called off a retaliatory military strike upon Iran for his concern about causing an estimated 150 Iranian deaths. (zzZigh)

    Of course, ‘Merikans are obligated to forget about the uber-Zionist t-Rump regime’s having recently named the IRGC as a foreign terrorist group.🙄 Am I now supposed to figure that the planned (“locked & loaded”) ZUS retaliatory strike upon three (3) Iran-based targets were not staffed by allies of the IRGC. (zzZigh)

    Haha. PreZident G.W. Bush gushed about his being a War President and being “The Decider.” Haha. As Sheldon Adelson & t-Rump Neocons ache to foment regime change in Iran, are we really wise to accept that a retaliatory attack upon Iran was cancelled at the last minute for concern about causing 150 casualties? 🙄

    Please, Bro Jacques, look at the link below which described the outrageous White House-statement which designated the IRGC as a foreign terror organization? Thanks and as always, my respect!

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-designation-islamic-revolutionary-guard-corps-foreign-terrorist-organization/

  106. Miro23 says:
    @Alfred

    A very interesting post. The Americans were setting a trap for the Iranians using US military personel as bait. It would be instructive to follow back the command chain to see how that Boeing P8 with 35 on board arrived in Iranian airspace. Also why, at that precise moment, US forces were primed and ready to go, just waiting for the order to attack.

  107. This is all bullshit. Discuss among yourselves.

  108. RobinG says:
    @Alfred

    To me, a total cynic, it looks like the Americans attempted a repeat of the incident when they deliberately misled their sailors so that they sailed into Iranian territorial waters. I guess they messed up the GPS for them.

    “Iran releases video of captured American sailor crying ”

    https://nypost.com/2016/02/10/iran-releases-video-of-captured-american-sailor-crying/

    I too would cry if I realised that my superiors had set me up as a sacrificial lamb.

    Wow. Totally believable. And coupled with the following (h/t “neprof”) …. dastardly!

    ….. a NYT article,
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/trump-iran-attack.html,

    which states (deep into the article) that the initial report the Drone was in international airspace may have been incorrect.

    Trump should realize his NSA staff is not being honest with him and almost got him to act on bad information.

    .

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  109. @Charles Carroll

    Not only should Sean Hannity be tied down to a seat in the cargo-bay of the US AIRFORCE Transport Plane to view every open stainless steal coffin for a week…..next to every open stainless steel coffin with the corpses exposed in full view…a blown-up photo of each of these young Men on their first day of school being walked onto the yellow school bus by their Mothers…….Sean Hannity’s Wife should be tied down in a chair next to Sean in the cargo-bay also to view these open stainless steel coffins…corpses in full view…..for the rest of her life…so she can finally come to understand that she married a MONSTER FROM HELL!!!!…

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  110. anon[211] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thales the Milesian

    ….”by the will of the American people.”
    So is Kushner , and the ambassador to Israel and Brian Hock.

    So has been the transfer of embassy to Jerusalem , and Golan Annexation. Yemenis slaughter through Saudi Arab.

    The vote was held tomorrow and result was implemented day after tomorrow.

    Some say it was implemented in 1947.

    Confusing American voters didn’t see their dream of safety net,Churche gatherings, better paying jobs for their kids, nice tranquil neighborhood, and non bankrupting health care cost getting hoisted on the petard of exceptionalism and manifest destiny .

    Next time they will see Bolton laughing at their disconnected heads scattered around and wearing nice and innocents smiles on the face . Peasants have to take the shit home at some stage .

    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
  111. Whatever Lola (Israel) wants, Lola (Israel) gets and Lola (Israel) wants you (War)

    The Saker, like all intelligent men he lives in Florida, is right.

    Hannity was a Rush Fanboy long ago and Rush, obviously, was wined and dined in Jerusalem years ago.

    Do Americans understand that these media figures are there because they will not criticise Israel?

    I used to watch FOX but, Lord have Mercy, it is an Anti-American, Pro Zionist Propaganda machine and yet conservatives lionise it

  112. Cleburne says:
    @Sean

    Agree with this assessment. You know who else benefits from higher crude? Shale producers in Texas. Tension short of war is good for both Iran and Texas.

    • Agree: Jacques Sheete
    • Replies: @Sean
  113. Realist says:
    @alexander

    Your time frame leaves out trillions wasted on war.
    Of course federal income tax did not become permanent until 1913

  114. EoinW says:
    @neprof

    You are too generous sir. Most Americans, also most westerners, would abstain from making any choice. It’s simply too inconvenient for them to worry about such stuff. Remember we are dealing with the materially richest society in human history(USA, Europe, Australia, Canada & New Zealand) consequently it is a society of spoiled brats. They are not interested in serious matters unless someone comes along to wind them up emotionally. Then you get 30 minutes of hysteria, before they return to their normal apathy.

    When I was six years old the Vietnam War was still raging. Yet all I cared about was playing with my toys or watching cartoons on tv. Plus I took for granted I’d be fed and have a warm home and bed. I couldn’t have cared less about Vietnam. I let my parents worry about that stuff.

    In the 21st century West we are just like I was at the age of 6. The only difference is that we’ve substituted parents for Big Brother government. A shame that 1% is a bunch of psychopaths. But it’s a crime the innocent people of the developing world must always pay the price for our immaturity.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @peterAUS
    , @Parfois1
  115. Realist says:
    @Thales the Milesian

    Trump must like Bolton.

    Ahh yes…..and there is the problem.

    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
  116. @War for Blair Mountain

    Why tie ’em down; why not just stick they’re sorry arses in one of the coffins with a corpse, preferably one with its guts shredded, put it in the sun, and close the lid for a few days? Then toss ’em in Guano-tanamo for the duration of their miserable existences.

    I bet that’d beat waterboarding most every time.

  117. @ChuckOrloski

    Now “Homelanders” are told that the better side of t-Rump, at the last minute, had called off a retaliatory military strike upon Iran for his concern about causing an estimated 150 Iranian deaths. (zzZigh)

    What a transparent farce that is, eh? I wonder when the Orange Clown’ll don a White Cowboy hat.

    PS: Speaking of Cowboys (and cobwebs), whatever happened to that coppe kopfed mouthpiece anyway? They come and they go, but the stink still stays.

  118. @ChuckOrloski

    The link was great. Dripping with both hypocrisy and stupidity. Typical. Amazing.

  119. RobinG says:
    @Bragadocious

    Are they Israeli agents?

    The MEK [Mujahadeen-e-Khalq] are ZUSA agents, for sure. The alleged Iranian laptop, fabricated by the Mossad, was laundered through the MEK and subsequently judged unreliable by German Intelligence. Nevertheless, US used this laptop of suspicious provenance to claim that Iran was making nuclear weapons. See Gareth Porter’s book, Manufactured Crisis.

    MEK, despised in Iran (by gov’t & public alike) is a terrorist cult that bought off US politicians to get itself removed from US terrorist list. You’ve hung around here for a while… How can you not know this?

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Talha
  120. Mike P says:
    @Biff

    Strategy is that which allows you to claim that a defeat is merely a tactical retreat.

  121. @A123

    “…stop the Iranian regime from threatening and destabilizing the region”.

    You’re a poor salesman. I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell here. This is the most brazen example of intellectual dishonesty I have read yet today and I doubt anything will top it. Their neighbor is a much more likely candidate for the honor.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
  122. Al Liguori says: • Website
    @lavoisier

    Sean Hannity is a PUSSY AND A FAGGOT!!!

    Mostly just an idiot and a Zionist whore.

    Hannity and his talmudic anti-Pope are a shame to Catholics. http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html

    • Replies: @turtle
  123. @Jacques Sheete

    Yes…I like that….Sean…his wife…and his parents……

    Iran is probably capable of sinking a US Aircraft Carrier…I’ll leave it to the experts on this matter…Saker and Andrie Martynov…if the Iranians have this capability…But if the Iranians do sink a GLOBAL HOMO USS LIBERACE IN A GLITTERING GOWN Aircraft Carrier..I fully expect a tactical nuke to be dropped on the Iranian Leadership in a decapitating strike…..much cheaper than 10,000 cruise missiles and a 100 bunker busters…….But what comes next?

  124. Iris says:

    Could John Bolton soon be sacked? Will it avert Iran war?

    According to former CIA officer and whistle-blower John Kiriakou:

    ” We can’t allow ourselves to believe that Donald Trump is in some way ‘pro-Iran.’ But John Bolton is actively seeking war with Iran. And this is something that Trump has been very clear about not wanting.”

    https://www.rt.com/news/461907-trump-fire-bolton-iran-kiriakou/

    “Trump said just a week ago that he was willing to begin talks with the Iranians “with no preconditions.” This was a major softening of U.S. policy toward Iran and it immediately drew Bolton’s ire. Indeed, The New York Times pointed out that the policy directly “overruled a longtime goal of (Trump’s) national security advisor.””

    “Trump’s chief of staff, has very quietly and discreetly begun informal meetings with a list of a half-dozen possible replacements for Bolton. Let’s hope he finds one that he and Trump both like sooner, rather than later.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/06/12/john-boltons-long-goodbye/

  125. By-tor says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Roosevelt and Churchill wanted the USSR and Germany to beat one another to death. There are these little bits of hooray-for-our-side history about ‘Lend Lease’ transit through Iran.

    https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/lend-lease-to-russia-the-persian-corridor/

    https://armyhistory.org/the-persian-gulf-command-and-the-lend-lease-mission-to-the-soviet-union-during-world-war-ii/

  126. endthefed says:
    @HEREDOT

    What makes us different from animals?

    The animals don’t get led by the psychos

  127. @War for Blair Mountain

    Kind of funny and morally degenerate at the same time…

    Sean Hannity has been a worshipper of Conservative Values Ronnie Reagan since his days as a construction worker in San Diego……….The USS RONNIE REAGAN MEGA AIRCRAFT CARRIER led the way in GLOBAL HOMO by being the first USS NAVY Ship to host Gay Pride Month Celebrations with a great big Gay Pride Cake with pink “GAY PRIDE!!! printed on it……….So this is how it all Ends…..

    THE USS NAVY

    A GLOBAL FORCE OF HOMOSEXUAL PEDERAST FILTH AND DISEASE!!!

    SEE YOUR US NAVY RECRUITER’S SPHINCTER TODAY!!!

    Ronnie Reagan’s Conservative Values….

    • Replies: @turtle
  128. turtle says:
    @El Dato

    When bullshit is all there is, Hollywood logic can be used to explain the world!

    Heh.
    Enough sewage flows from his mouth (or keyboard) to fertilize the Sinai.
    Make the desert bloom, indeed.

  129. Mike P says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    This is the 21st century. Why do you persist in parroting nearly century-old war propaganda?

    It’s out of copyright.

    • LOL: OEMIKITLOB
  130. turtle says:
    @2stateshmustate

    telling Americans they will be welcomed in Iran

    They will be welcomed if the gangsters in D.C. refrain from bombing the place.
    Whoever is urging the USG to commence hostilities is doing so for their own purposes, which do not include the best interests of U.S. citizens.

  131. 4justice says:
    @RobinG

    Sad to say, Tucker Carlson is the US antiwar movement. The antiwar movement fell apart when those taking the lead put Israel ahead of ending war, despite joining a movement that claimed to put ending war first.

    • Replies: @OEMIKITLOB
  132. 1. Iran has refused to bow down to the imperial powers for 4 decades. The imperial powers have a very bad record in history
    2. Iran doesn’t want “the kind of democracy” that Iraq has received from the imperial US & UK. Says No and no thanks
    3. Iran has been behaving in a methodical and reasonable way to establish itself as a power in the region against the war criminals and the Zionists
    4. None of the “false flags” BS works any longer because the entire world knows who are behind them and for what purpose
    5. The first strike into Iran will set the oil facilities on fire and complete destruction in SA & UAE
    6. The oil price will skyrocket to $300/B. Then the imperial powers will pout in a corner asking what the hell happened?
    7. Putin will celebrate the high oil prices all the way to the bank and laughing at the imperials

    The rest is all bullshit!

    • Replies: @Rurik
  133. @El Dato

    It seems safe to assume that there are Iranian sleeper cells in the United States. Why wouldn’t there be? Our open-borders nation is most welcoming to all intruders, and the Iranians have had several years to get thoroughly-trained agents into place. If Sean Hannity’s bombing program kicks into gear, we may well see attacks on our infrastructure beginning shortly thereafter. And just consider all those high-rise apartment buildings, hotels and golf destinations with a big golden TRUMP emblazoned on their facades; won’t those make alluring targets if this administration gives the go-ahead for a major attack on Iran? I bet this has not escaped the president’s notice.

  134. turtle says:
    @RobinG

    Bravo, Tucker Carlson.
    Only one quibble:
    There is no “Neo” in “Neocon.”
    Only the same old con game, brought to us by the same old con artists, such as “war criminal in waiting,” John “Bonkers” Bolton.
    I guess his Yale “education” did not include knowledge of Nuremberg principles.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression

    “War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

  135. Rurik says:
    @Monty Ahwazi

    2. Iran doesn’t want “the kind of democracy” that Iraq has received from the imperial US & UK

    “Democracy”, like the ZUS imposed Shah, that was some “democracy”, eh?

    SAVAK and all!

    Or like the [‘Yats is our guy’] “democracy” in Ukraine

    Or “democracy” in Egypt today (they recently did their ‘Milosevic’ to the only democratically elected president Egypt was ever allowed to have.

    7. Putin will celebrate the high oil prices all the way to the bank and laughing at the imperials

    Venezuela plays into this somehow too.

    They wanted to have control of that nation’s oil, and that too blew up in their rotten faces.

    Trump is lying about calling it all off because of concern for Iranian lives. Something else is going on..

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Monty Ahwazi
  136. turtle says:
    @MarkinLA

    Mr. Zarif published coordinates:
    https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/06/22/599155/Iran-FM-Zarif-US-drone-territorial-waters-map
    No idea if they are accurate.
    Google maps puts that location slightly off the coast of Iran, evidently within territorial waters.

    Under international law:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

    Territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,[1] is a belt of coastal waters extending at most[clarification needed] 12 nautical miles (22.2 km; 13.8 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state. The territorial sea is regarded as the sovereign territory of the state, although foreign ships (military and civilian) are allowed innocent passage through it, or transit passage for straits; this sovereignty also extends to the airspace over and seabed below

    A spy plane (manned or unmanned) can hardly be called “innocent passage,” but perhaps the U.S. will attempt to claim that.
    As well, the Iranians say there was a second, manned, U.S. spy plane which accompanied the Global Hawk, and which they purposely did not shoot down.
    https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/06/22/599129/Iran-US-drone-IRGC-Trump-

    the GPS coordinates released by Iran put the drone eight miles off the country’s coast, inside the 12 nautical miles from the shore, which is Iran’s territorial waters.

  137. sally says:
    @TheJester

    I think Iran is in a stronger position than the Japanese were I do not think the Iranians can be forced into the position to bomb pearl Harbor ( or its equivalent no matter the sanctions, because Iran has learned to survive on its own); the Japs were bogged down and highly dependent on the outside world. Iran has defeated the USA, Israel, and UK in statesmanship, citizen loyalty, integrity of their word, expression of their purpose, and has made unbelievable progress in defensive technology.. The Iranians have become the undeclared leader of the politics of the middle east. Soon I predict Iran will control most of the economy of the middle East, including Trumps secret partners in Saudi Arabia.

    If Iran join forces with China, Russia, Turkey, Iraq and others in a war between Zionism and Islam, there will be no Israel, no UK, no France and the USA in the middle east after that war will be history. This will most likely be true, even if the west=> nukes Iran, even if the west =>destroys the infra structure that supports the economy of Iran, and even if the Iranian people =>find themselves starving and dying in the street as in Yemen, the Muslim people will find a way to survive, they will not give up, until the last of them is …well at least that is MO.

    War would be catastrophic for western companies doing business in the ME. War with Iran and Islam would break the strings of dependence that the western hegemonic banking systems depends on.. I say this because the diplomatic and distributed fire power will be on the side of the Iranians and Muslims in general. .. the west will have concentrated nuclear weapons which are superior at impact, but are limited in value and use. Syria and Yemen have shown even without infra structure, devoted armies are far superior to all kinds of high technology weapons.

    Trump has one good option: to reverse his positions on the Iran agreement and on the nuclear non proliferation agreement, failing either he will most likely not get reelected and he might not get a chance to talk to the Iranians until after the post war ICC convenes ..and Trump will find no gear to reverse, as long as Bolton & Alderson are part of his team..

    The propaganda war between the American people and the lets-get-somebody-in-the-middle-East crowd is not going well either.. Americans have discovered they are not only governed by a government that has no link to its domestic needs and that the once domestically concerned government has partnered with monopoly endowed, privatized, big-guy corporate Zionist: in a team effort, designed to bleed the wallets of the 350,000,000 governed in spied on America.

    Americans are slow, but they are used to being free, they think democratically, and will, IMO, eventually decide to find a way to remedy this unfathomable, war-machine monopoly-powered private-public corporate dictatorship.. the USA has morphed into.

  138. Alfred says:
    @Rurik

    Or “democracy” in Egypt today (they recently did their ‘Milosevic’ to the only democratically elected president Egypt was ever allowed to have.

    Morsi was a foreign agent. He was Muslim Brotherhood. His terrorists set fire to Christian Churches. Egypt was a Christian country at one time.

    Unfortunately, countries like Egypt are totally ungovernable in the democratic way. Democracy only works when the people have some decent information and education. Neither prerequisite exists in Egypt. It is a lost cause. Anyway, how can you govern a country where the population was 25 million 50 years ago and is now over 90 million. It is impossible. All you can do is to try and muddle through and to try and prevent foreign takeovers. Obviously, Sisi is also beholden to foreign interests. But that is what happens when a country has gone so far downhill. But at least he is not burning churches.

  139. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    a terrorist cult that bought off US politicians to get itself removed from US terrorist list.

    Generally agree with that post except the above point. The MEK doesn’t have fat pockets but they are a darling of the Israel-first neocons and those guys have a huge influence on who gets listed or de-listed from the official terrorist-designation lists.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @RobinG
  140. @Twodees Partain

    You are pathetic.

    The American people elected Trump.

    Indirectly, the American people appointed Bolton.

    Yuo mean the USA is not democratic?

    Did you tell that to the Russian media?

  141. @anon

    The American people living in a free democracy have the power to remove Bolton.
    If they do not, they either approve of Bolton or live under Stalin.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  142. Like 9/11 the attacks on the tankers were obviously false flags and it appears that the Iranians had solid evidence that the drone penetrated their air space , for those reasons Trump was probably advised to call off the proposed strikes against Iranian positions.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  143. anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @EoinW

    When I was six years old the Vietnam War was still raging. Yet all I cared about was playing with my toys or watching cartoons on tv. Plus I took for granted I’d be fed and have a warm home and bed. I couldn’t have cared less about Vietnam. I let my parents worry about that stuff.

    You make such a poor point. All six year olds, anywhere on earth, couldn’t care any less about anything, except being fed and have a decent home and bed… and in many cases, not having even that, because of the evil of your kind.

    A shame that 1% is a bunch of psychopaths.

    Not so fast with the blame shifting, whitey psychopath.

    Your “materially richest societies in human history,” – much of it due to ill-gotten gain – are also celebrated as “great democracies.” Pray tell who elected those 1% bunch of psychopaths? Before you jump and deceitfully claim that you fellows did not elect the evil deep state… then phucking stop calling yourselves democracies!!

    Now, take for example those people in Hong Kong who came out recently in great numbers and fought for something (for selfish reasons, but ok)… and won it too. They showed what people power in “democracies” can achieve.

    I don’t see the collective Eurapeans coming out in even greater numbers (especially because 100s of thousands, millions, of innocent lives are at stake), and demanding their 1% psychopaths to end the bloodbaths.

    The common “you” are hardly any different from the 1%, except for a few. Shame on all of you.

  144. @Zero

    They’ve used it for decades

    Come now….

    They’ve used it for millenia.

    The Hyksos came to Egypt, gained control of major granaries, formented uprisings by withholding food and blaming pharaoh.

    Good old fashioned regime change. However they got their asses handed to them but not before developing a good persecution story for future use.

  145. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    They absolutely & sincerely believe, like pockets of Evangelicals, in grand cataclysmic KABOOM, apocalypse after which all Muslims will, voluntarily, be converted to Shia version of Islam & accept Iranians as some kind supernatural spiritual leaders. This will have happened in some kind of transfigured universe, according to archaic cosmologies, but still a radically transformed earth that will not be like those with laws of physics as we know it.

    So, they’re authentic & sincere fanatics who, unlike similar nuts in other countries- do have power

    Yep.

    ..on the other hand, there is a strong secular, meritocratic current in Iranian society that would be very willing to dump Ayatollahs , but they’re not strong enough. They are Iranian nationalists who don’t want their country to be exploited by Americans; they, mostly, don’t care about Israel at all; they would focus their energies on booting or superseding Arabs in other countries. They are, essentially, champions of Eternal Iran.

    Just, for now, they’re not powerful enough….

    They could be made powerful enough in some cases of US/West intervention.

    The strikes directed against the regime (IRCG in particular) can create a space for them.
    And for some independent movements there. Kurds included.

    All in all, Iran is much more fragile than most of here are led to believe.

    My take is that some sort of armed conflict is inevitable within next 9 months.

    One way to find out.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  146. anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @RobinG

    Bless you RobinG for the chuckle.

  147. peterAUS says:
    @EoinW

    Most Americans, also most westerners, would abstain from making any choice. It’s simply too inconvenient for them to worry about such stuff. Remember we are dealing with the materially richest society in human history(USA, Europe, Australia, Canada & New Zealand) consequently it is a society of spoiled brats. They are not interested in serious matters unless someone comes along to wind them up emotionally.

    Close. Almost there.
    One word: money.

    As for

    Then you get 30 minutes of hysteria, before they return to their normal apathy.

    Sort of.
    15 minutes of hysteria and then back to “games and circuses”. Therapeutic.And feels good.Those 15 minutes, that is.

    • Replies: @EoinW
  148. anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miggle

    And the USA didn’t side with Hitler…

    That sounds like nonsense because by the 1940’s the British had squeezed everything they could out of India.

    • Replies: @Malla
  149. anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    To me, a total cynic too, it is very intriguing how the Iranians came to know that there were 35 personnel on board?

    • Replies: @Alfred
  150. Amon says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Nice link.

    Do you have one that leads to a page not plastered with ads, screaming videos and a click here to consent to intrusive advertisement pop ups?

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  151. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    If the persians close the Strait of Ormuz , the world economy collapses , and they have the power to do it

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/06/20/iran-goes-for-maximum-counter-pressure/

  152. anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    He didn’t. It was revealed today that he merely approved plans, but no order was ever given to follow through with them. He cancelled before a “point of no return” was reached. This isn’t the same thing as giving the go ahead only to countermand his own order, which is what is being said in the American media. The point of that propaganda is to bait the guy into attacking Iran by portraying him as either indecisive or cowardly, or both. The media is in full war mode and Trump wisely pulled back. … but for how long can he resist?

    • Replies: @Iris
  153. If Israel can have 200 nukes….Iran should be allowed to ten to deter Israel and the US..

    The only solution is no nukes anywhere in the Middle East….And this is the Iranian Proposal……

    So obviously Israel’s intent is to destroy Arab-Iranian People with the intent of colonizing their lands……

    The much larger picture:Asian Legal Immigrants+US born Asian GENELINE….is the scab labor that Native Born White Christian American Working Class Youth are forced to compete with for the tech jobs in America…..The US Military becomes the employer of last resort…….This is how Jew-only Israel gets its goyim CANON FODDER for Greater Israel in the Middle East……

  154. Skeptikal says:
    @Fran Macadam

    It seems like Iran holds the “trump” card with its control of the Strait of Hormus.
    Why are our “leaders”and their sabre-rattling succubuses too stupid to notice this?

    • Replies: @turtle
  155. Beckow says:
    @peterAUS

    My guess is that this will not result in a war, short-term or long-term. Bombing a place from far away is not really a war – more like a high-tech vandalism.

    The main players’ objectives are:
    – Iranian government to stay in power without losing face
    – Saudis to look like a real ‘power’ and be taken seriously after all the losses (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon)
    – Israel to keep the Arab-Persian enmity going
    – US to re-arrange chips on the imaginary maps they like to play with so much. And to use up some weapons so they can buy more.

    None of those are well served with an actual war, risks are too high for all involved. So betting on peace is a safer choice, Trump seems to have done it. Asking ‘how many people will die?’ is the most humane and normal thing a high-level Western leader has done in a very long time. And if I am wrong, we probably won’t be around to discuss it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  156. anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rabbitnexus

    Shias have always been outnumbered and it was us who were targeted

    I found the highlighted word somewhat interesting, because I remember you implied recently, 1) you are white (?), 2) live in Australia, 3) married to a Pakistani. If I got any of that wrong, please ignore the remaining of the post, because it does not apply to you.

    If the above is true, I take it you married a Shia Pakistani, and given the passionate manner in which you mention things related to Shi’ism, you have adopted Shi’ism?

    If the above is still true, I ask, do you proclaim such heresies as “Ya Ali Madad!” (O Ali Help!)?

    If you do, do you have any idea of what constitutes shirk(polytheism) in Islam? “Ya Ali Madad” is shirk! Remember, for a True Monotheist, one the greatest fear on earth is being associated with polytheism, even subliminally.

    when a dispute over leadership turned bitter

    It is not primarily about leadership. It is about some polytheist tendencies (see above), and how Shias try to reason with the unreasonable.

    https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235048236-why-do-us-shia-say-ya-ali-maddad/

    Anyway, peace.

    • Replies: @Rabbitnexus
    , @Rabbitnexus
  157. @peterAUS

    They could be made powerful enough in some cases of US/West intervention.

    The strikes directed against the regime (IRCG in particular) can create a space for them.
    And for some independent movements there. Kurds included.

    All in all, Iran is much more fragile than most of here are led to believe.

    My take is that some sort of armed conflict is inevitable within next 9 months.

    One way to find out.

    Iran is fragile, but if you bomb them, they will patriotically stick together, even those masses who despise Ayatolahs. People tend to homogenize in such circumstances.

    Only change from within can truly change Iran. And, by the way, I don’t think that US is powerful enough to break Iran, which is, with all its weaknesses, a much bigger, stronger & real nation than Iraq, Syria or Libya.

    And…I don’t thin Russians would allow it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  158. @4justice

    If you mean to say he is the most visible in the MSM I would probably agree but it stretches the limits of credulity to say he is *the* anti-war movement in the U.S. He’s actually a relative new-comer when contrasted with those who have been and are anti-war here in the U.S. for many decades longer; they just aren’t given the platform he is, for obvious reasons, unfortunately.

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @4justice
  159. Iris says:
    @anon

    The media is in full war mode and Trump wisely pulled back. …

    And the timely, well-choreographed drone provocation happened conveniently just after rumours spread that President Trump was about to sack the lunatic Israel shill John Bolton…

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/06/12/john-boltons-long-goodbye/

  160. By-tor says:

    The US/ Israeli-backed MEK Iranian gangsters live in the US, France and other western countries- not in Iran. Saddam allegedly armed the MEK against Iranians and the Kurds. In July 1988, US-backed Iraq allowed the Iranian MEK to carry out actions against border region Kurds and Iranians. The US later blamed Saddam and not the MEK. US media fully complied with parroting this false history which was needed to demonize Hussein.

    https://www.sott.net/article/373185-MEK-Terrorist-Death-Cult-Meet-Washingtons-Iranian-Opposition

    ” The MEK is vilified by most in Iran because of its collaboration with Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s, which cost Iran about 1 million deaths. Iranian officials refer to the movement as Munafiqeen, ‘hypocrites’, a pun on Mujahideen. The MEK has been positioning itself as the Opposition to the Iranian government, and Maryam Rajavi likes being referred to as the President of Iran. Yet even the Green Movement (an Iranian ‘color revolution’ outfit), which amassed significant support in Iran in the run-up to the 2009 presidential elections (albeit with the dubious support of Western intelligence agencies), has distanced itself from the cult. Zahra Rahnavard, wife of reformist presidential candidate Mir-Hossein Mousavi, has stated categorically that “Mr. Mousavi, Mr. Khatami, Mr. Karroubi and all of us within the Green Movement do not consider the MEK a part of the Green Movement.”

    • Replies: @RobinG
  161. @Rurik

    You don’t get it do you? I see a perfect democracy in Iraq today. After 2 decades of war they are still killing one another everyday. Haha
    Who said anything about the ruthless shah installed by the CIA? And of course training of the SAVAKI agents by the same CIA. You must have been sleepy when you read my comment

    Hey Trump or Janny Bolton or Pimpeo don’t give a shit about killing 150 or more of innocent Iranians. Since when the US is protecting the innocent people on this planet. What Trump was worried about was the upending of US economy due to a much higher energy cost and loss of his POTUS position in the next year election for sure.

    BTW, Janny in Farsi means criminal!

  162. George 1 says:

    Whatever the case if the U.S. goes to war with Iran, I want to see Israelis coming home in body bags this time. Not just Americans. Why should Americans have all the fun?

  163. “How true is this story about Trump canceling a US attack at the last minute? It is impossible to know, but it appears to me that it is certain that the nutcase Neocons around Trump wanted the strike…

    …In this case, whether Trump listened to either group or simply followed his gut instincts, it appears likely that Trump (maybe a “collective Trump”) said “no, I don’t authorize this”. In this case, he does deserve our sincere praise and gratitude (irrespective of this past actions and inactions).”

    You’re looking at this all wrong, IMO. The mass-murdering war criminal orange clown doesn’t deserve our “sincere praise and gratitude” for what is at most a “tactical retreat,” not a humanitarian gesture.

    You see, the “nutcase Neocons” around orange clown (and orange clown himself for that matter) are actually nothing more than stage props. They’re where they are precisely because they’re such well-known scumbags. They’re the perfect made for TeeVee villains.

    When the “orange clown administration” does something exceptionally stupid, evil and self-destructive (or threatens to do so), it is to be assumed by the audience that orange clown must’ve been listening to Bolton or Pompeo.

    And then when the “orange clown administration” shows some kind of “restraint” (e.g. when a change of plans is necessary because the victims/targets aren’t backing down as was hoped), it is to be assumed by the audience that someone more reasonable, e.g. Mattis, Tucker Carlson, etc., must have caught the ear of the capricious orange clown.

    Well guess what, there’s no need to resort to intricate theories of complex interactions between various personalities representing competing interests blah blah blah, because it’s all just political theater macabre. Team orange clown is nothing more than a dialectical facade for big jew and his increasingly desperate geopolitical brinksmanship.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  164. @War for Blair Mountain

    To follow up:

    And this is the reason why I have violent hatred of IQ Tests….In American Society….IQ Tests select for the Canon Fodder for Greater Israel Class of Labor…

    [MORE]

    I completely agree with the narcissistic-arrogant-odious Nicholas Taleb that IQ Test score correlations are meaningless and spurious….If you have spent time thinking critically about psychometrics…it just hits you smack in the face…..Taleb has done the great service of mathematically formalizing Our critical intuiti0ns about this….

    The system is totally evil and it is massively rigged rigged against the Native Born White Christian American Working Class….The one-twelve billion dollars spent since Gulf War 1 up to today on mass murder in the Middle East could have been spent on tech job training-mentoring programs for millions of Working Class Native Born White American Youth from the American Heartland….there was no need to import even one Asian LEGAL IMMIGRANT post-October 1965……………………..It is the interaction of post-1965 nonwhite Legal Immigrant Policy and the enormous control-ownership of the US Media and US Congress by AIPAC….ADL…..every Jewish Organization….that creates the Native Born White Christian American Male Youth Canon Fodder for Jew-only Israel………….IT IS A MONUMENTAL CRIME…..BEHIND EVERY GREAT FORTUNE…..IS A VERY GREAT CRIME……

  165. turtle says:
    @Justsaying

    half a million children denied essential medicines

    I have an Iraqi friend (U.S. citizen) whose brother Ibrahim died because medicine he needed to stay alive was embargoed by U.S.
    Ibrahim was a practicing physician in Baghdad.
    The family tried to smuggle in the necessary medication, but were unable to do so.
    R.I.P.

  166. @Thales the Milesian

    Interesting video clip here in which the late Tony Benn eviscerates Bolton on TV and leaves him speechless and blinking like a mole in sunlight.

    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
  167. @War for Blair Mountain

    I hope everyone reads my partially hidden conclusion to my comments in this thread-discussion….

  168. @Agent76

    Remember back when those Cuban idiots very nearly got everybody killed by talking Chief Gangster and Bigus Dickus JFK into invading Cuba? Next bunch of foreigners who see a way to run their native country again and get even with everybody (having both learned and forgotten nothing) make suggestions, treat them like the legacy media treats Trump and point out what happened the last ten times anybody listened to them. It’s safer.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @RobinG
  169. Alfred says:
    @anonymous

    The word “personnel” sounds so much nicer. But I prefer “soldiers”. Of course, they don’t carry guns and grenades, but they are actually soldiers. 🙂

  170. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow

    My guess is that this will not result in a war, short-term or long-term. Bombing a place from far away is not really a war – more like a high-tech vandalism.

    No comment.

    The main players’ objectives are:
    – Iranian government to stay in power without losing face
    – Saudis to look like a real ‘power’ and be taken seriously after all the losses (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon)
    – Israel to keep the Arab-Persian enmity going
    – US to re-arrange chips on the imaginary maps they like to play with so much. And to use up some weapons so they can buy more.

    And one more: to degrade Iranian capability to threaten Israel and project power in the region. In that order.

    None of those are well served with an actual war, risks are too high for all involved.

    You mean prolong stand of campaign re the “last” reason? O.K.

    So betting on peace is a safer choice, Trump seems to have done it.

    You bought this “CNN thing” I see.O.K.

    Asking ‘how many people will die?’ is the most humane and normal thing a high-level Western leader has done in a very long time.

    “Human”?!?
    You think that the decision makers at that level think as…say…you? O.K.

    And if I am wrong, we probably won’t be around to discuss it.

    Well, you are, IMHO, wrong on both accounts.
    Now, we made our positions clear so let’s conclude our communication here.

    Hehe…of course, the similar topic will come up shortly so we can reiterate our positions again.

    Isn’t that the main purpose of this site? Rhetorical question.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  171. Bliss says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Lying Abe Lincoln was, in fact, much worse than the Nazis ever thought of being

    You are so full of sheete….

  172. MarkinLA says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    In fact it’s my understanding that the Japanese were bending over backwards in an attempt to avoid war with the US

    Proof? The ball was in Japan’s court. Why did they need to negotiate with the US in order to leave China? Don’t you see how stupid that is? That Japan did not want to be humiliated is irrelevant.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  173. turtle says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    They are completely nuts, basically sincere fanatics.

    Pure fertilizer, at least if you believe U.S. CIA, which assesses the Iranian government are rational actors.

    I have not been to Iran, but my dentist, who was born and raised there, tells me he estimates the number of religious fundamentalists at about 10% of population.

    Contrast this to U.S., where number of wild eyed Christian fundies is probably between 20% and 30% of U.S. population. Pastor Hagee’s followers, who are praying for the world to end, so they can be “raptured” into “Heaven,” wherever that may be.
    If they were only praying, we could safely ignore them (there being no giant male mammal in the sky who will answer their “prayers”) but some of them no doubt take direct action by sending their hard-earned money to the Jews who live in Palestine (a.k.a. “Israelis”).
    These are the real crazies.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  174. MarkinLA says:
    @El Dato

    The US may very well have been looking for a reason to cut the Imperial Navy down to size. That does not change the fact that Japan gave them that reason and could have avoided it (at least for awhile).

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  175. @OEMIKITLOB

    I do not trust anyone in the MSM as they are all shills for the zionists who control the zio/US gov and who have had the US destroy the mideast for Israel and I stopped watching Tucker Carlson when he said that 911 Truthers were nuts.

    Hannity on his Friday show was saying that the US should bomb the hell out of Iran, and was foaming at the mouth in his war hysteria and ranting and raving going full Dr. Strange Love and here again is a war monger who never was in the military!

    Fox is just like the rest, zionist owned and a warmongering mouth piece of the zionists and zionist Israel.

    • Replies: @OEMIKITLOB
  176. @El Dato

    Reuters is owned by Rotschilds.

  177. @Jonathan Mason

    I am not saying I approve or disapprove of Bolton.

    What I am saying is that a democratically elected president appointed Bolton. I am arguing that Bolton is indirectly appointed in his current post by the American people.

    If the American people do not approve of Bolton, they can descend on Washington protesting .

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  178. MarkinLA says:
    @Miggle

    This is drivel. Nobody forced Japan into war. Nobody had any delusions about 1930s China being anything more than what it was a third world basket case that could barely fed itself. The agricultural revolution that resulted in major food surpluses happened after WWII.

    The US government was generally on the side of ending colonialism after the war (except where it was in their supposed interest like the Philippines and Vietnam). The idea that FDR would have ever sided with Hitler is so dumb there isn’t any way to accurately describe it.

  179. Nonny says:
    @Patrikios Stetsonis

    No need for the nuke. Officially support BDS, do BDS which is individuals stepping in and doing what governments should have been doing. In addition, the other things. The fundamental evil of Judaism has been exposed by Israel.

    • Agree: Jacques Sheete
    • Replies: @Patrikios Stetsonis
  180. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Iran is fragile, but if you bomb them, they will patriotically stick together, even those masses who despise Ayatolahs. People tend to homogenize in such circumstances.

    Like in Afghanistan, Iraq Syria and Lybia? O.K.
    Hehehe…..of all countries that got “bombed” by The Empire only your “friends” Serbs actually did that.
    I wouldn’t equate your close neighbors with M.E. people. Just me.

    Only change from within can truly change Iran.

    Not change. Degrade. From there, who knows?

    And, by the way, I don’t think that US is powerful enough to break Iran, which is, with all its weaknesses, a much bigger, stronger & real nation than Iraq, Syria or Libya.

    Not break. Degrade.From there, who knows?

    And…I don’t thin Russians would allow it.

    Like in Syria?
    I can, with ease, imagine precisely that scenario. Both powers in Iran, if things really get heated.

    We’ll see.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that we’ll see a serious armed action against Iran within next 9 months.

    There is only one reason to read Saker. To get how Kremlin feels about anything.
    The author isn’t bragging” bring it on”.
    I mean, if the attack will break The Empire, why not? If the battle for the new, better world will be fought in Iran with high chance of success, why not? I know that half of “population” of this pub, when one mentiones “violence”, piss themselves, but what’s the problem with the other half?
    Shouldn’t…hehehe…some of them even go there and help Iranians in any way possible?
    Y…………..e……………a……………….h.
    We know why not; because it won’t break The Empire. On the contrary. It will strengthen it.

    As with Beckow, we made our positions clear; we disagree.

    Till next week…hehe….let’s move on.

  181. MarkinLA says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Why are we supposed to take your unproven assertions as the gospel truth – simply because they are anti-American?

  182. EoinW says:
    @peterAUS

    Well my cat has 5 minute bursts of activity so I tried to be generous and give us westerners 30 minutes of pseudo-caring. 15 min is likely closer. How about we split the diff – 22 1/2?

    “Games and circuses” so true. And it’s very therapeutic. Those 15 min fuel the hypocrisy.

  183. MarkinLA says:
    @sally

    but instead by the hidden behind the scene, state to state vote of the electoral college.

    Your argument is never helped by veering off into lunacy. The electoral college is fairly transparent.

  184. turtle says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    put it in the sun, and close the lid for a few days?

    Ah, yes, the boats.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaphism
    I like it.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  185. MarkinLA says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    JFK was dragged into that war and did not have his heart in it. The CIA was pushing it and it was an Eisenhower developed plan. JFK took away the air support and the backup invasion by US forces once the revolution gained a foothold and could make the claim that they had the support of the people. This was a big reason the invasion failed.

    JFK was being deceived and lied to just like Trump.

    • Replies: @nsa
    , @Counterinsurgency
  186. turtle says:
    @Al Liguori

    stop the Iranian regime from threatening and destabilizing the region

    by minding their own business, and defending their country when attacked.

  187. Hymn to Exceptionalism

    Oh my beautiful liar
    Oh my precious whore
    My disease my infection
    I am so impure

    Refrain from “Reptile”
    Album “The Downward Spiral” NIN (1994)

    Also Reznor, Murphy, Ross Studio Version:

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  188. turtle says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    and don’t forget the motto of (soon to be created) USMC “Rainbow Battalion”:

    Never leave your buddy’s behind.

    Actual U.S. Marines can be expected to puke when receiving the news.

  189. 4justice says:
    @OEMIKITLOB

    I admit I was exaggerating, but sadly, it is not far from the truth. I say this as someone who has been part of the antiwar movement since 1999. The UfPJ was the democratic more Zionist wing of the antiwar movement. They neutered themselves in order to protect Israel and avoid discussion of the Neocon agenda for Israel. They went dark when Obama was elected b/c you, know, hope and change and all. The authentic voices of Muslims and Arabs in this country were silenced after 9/11 by means of programs like special registration and politically motivated frame-ups such as targeting the Holy Land Foundation and other outspoken activists. Jaoudat Abouazza was supposedly detained for being an undocumented Canadian but really because he was effectively organizing Muslims into the antiwar movement in Boston. After his detention and word of his medical torture reached the community, that trend was thwarted. ANSWER/Workers World was the faction that would say “Palestine” sometimes let an Arab have the microphone at a large rally, but people who did not champion Transgender and Gay Rights – such as Muslims, Arab Christians, and other Christians were never really welcome. Bot the ANSWER side and the UfPJ side both come from the communist left with the Talmudic values of arrogance and sectarianism – so the antiwar movement committed suicide long before Tucker Carlson noticed that the elites were driving this country off a cliff and the Neocons were using it to settle scores and prepare its local region for Israel’s territorial expansion.

    No disrespect to sincere people like myself who tried to navigate all of this chaos – but without coherent leadership, we could not do much. There are other pockets such as PAX Christi, but the media has silenced them by stereotyping Catholics as pedophiles even as our entire society suffers an epidemic of pedophilia and associated cover-ups that put protecting institutions over protecting kids. Glad to hear what I have missed… Libertarians and Ron Paul certainly deserve a mention…

    • Agree: RobinG, Robjil
    • Replies: @OEMIKITLOB
    , @RobinG
  190. @Biff

    “Over a long period of time we have developed this concept for the struggle against the enemy: strategically we should despise all our enemies, but tactically we should take them all seriously. This also means that we must despise the enemy with respect to the whole, but that we must take him seriously with respect to each and every concrete question. If we do not despise the enemy with respect to the whole, we shall be committing the error of opportunism. ……. But in dealing with concrete problems and particular enemies we shall be committing the error of adventurism unless we take them seriously. ……… The same is even true of eating a meal. Strategically, we take the eating of a meal lightly – we know we can finish it. But actually we eat it mouthful by mouthful. it is impossible to swallow an entire banquet in one gulp. This is known as a piecemeal solution. In military parlance it is called wiping out the enemy forces one by one.”

    Mao addressing the meeting of Communist and Workers’ parties, Moscow Nov 18 1957.

    I hope that makes the distinction clear.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  191. onebornfree says: • Website
    @RobinG

    RobinG says:

    ” ….. a NYT article,
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/trump-iran-attack.html,

    which states (deep into the article) that the initial report the Drone was in international airspace may have been incorrect.”

    Apparently there is no international airspace in that area. The Strait of Hormuz is only 21 miles wide.

    My present understanding is that territorial ownership of the Strait is split down the middle between Iran and Oman, its neighbor on the opposite side.

    Regards, onebornfree

  192. turtle says:
    @Skeptikal

    The only solution is no nukes anywhere in the Middle East….And this is the Iranian Proposal……

    Yep, it s is those dastardly Iranians who are proposing a nuclear free zone in the M.E., having themselves unilaterally renounced the development of nuclear weapons.
    For that, they are condemned as “evil.”

    • Agree: RobinG
  193. @War for Blair Mountain

    Not sure, but I think the coffins are aluminum, not stainless steel.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  194. @SeekerofthePresence

    Chorus from “Head like a Hole”
    Album “Pretty Hate Machine” NIN (1989)

    Bow down before the one you serve
    You’re going to get what you deserve
    Bow down before the one you serve
    You’re going to get what you deserve

    Also Reznor, Murphy, Ross Studio Version
    (Peter Murphy–voice of the darkest depths):

  195. Sorry, but I’m not buying Trump’s excuse for backing down. Since when has Trump, or any other US president, ever been the least bit concerned over how many people they’re responsible for killing? My best guess is that at the last minute, someone in the know convinced Trump that Iran very likely had some very bad shit waiting for them that would result in large numbers of attacking US planes being shot down, causing an already embarrassing situation to become even more so.

    • Replies: @alexander
  196. tomgreg says:
    @MarkinLA

    “The first thing in is missiles that target air defense batteries.”

    Are these the same missiles that did zilch in Syria?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  197. @turtle

    No, I don’t believe CIA. Ayatollahs, most of them, are crazy fundies, not the majority of Iranian population. For instance, ol’ Khomeini was absolutely crazy fanatic.

    As for religious nuts – how many Evangelicals would be ready to die & to sacrifice their lives for some crazy shit? I guess not much. They’re just frothing at the mouth & making noise. On the other hand, you’d find a non-negligible minority of ordinary Iranians ready to willingly lose their lives for some shitty cause.

  198. @Bardon Kaldian

    Problem is Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Dominionists are happy to sacrifice other people’s lives.

  199. turtle says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Ayatollahs, most of them, are crazy fundies

    How the fuck would you know?
    Do you know any actual Iranians?
    Know anyone (American or other) who has lived there, and written a book about his experiences?
    I can say yes to both of the above.
    You, on the other hand, appear to be mindlessly repeating the Likud party line, straight out of Tel Aviv.

    some shitty cause.

    You mean, like defending their country from foreign invaders.
    Many have, for just that reason.

  200. The ‘cancellation of the impending attack’ was obviously a bit of theater.

    The only question is why was it staged. My own theory is that — although Trump is being frog-marched into war by his Zionist handlers — he’s desperate to avoid it. He knows his base isn’t interested, and although there’ll be a brief ‘go team!’ moment, it’ll turn into a political suicide note forthwith.

    …really, it might be best if it did happen. The end of it all should be us finally getting that Zionist monkey off our back — and the sooner that happens, the better.

    Why drag this out? Just rip that bandage off and have done with it.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  201. @Alfred

    To me, a total cynic, it looks like the Americans attempted a repeat of the incident when they deliberately misled their sailors so that they sailed into Iranian territorial waters. I guess they messed up the GPS for them.

    I’ve suspected for years that rather than N. Korea “brainwashing” American GIs and turning them against their own country as they were accused of doing, what they actually did was to remove captured US soldiers from US propaganda long enough to educate them (for the first time) on crimes the United States was guilty of committing on other countries in the name of spreading democracy.

  202. alexander says:
    @Carroll Price

    Speaking of “bad shit”…or rather “bad ass shit” Carroll.

    Our “Global Hawk” was said to be flying at 60,000 feet…..that is a target over 11 miles high…and the Iranians picked it right out of the sky…..One shot…..

    This does not seem like “stone age” deterrence capability to me.

    Does it to you ?

    I would imagine that since our Iraq debacle in 2003, Iran has had 16 years to both prepare and fortify their defenses.

    Since it is their homeland being targeted, I would imagine they make every penny count.

    While our Pentagon, under Neocon stewardship, is so profoundly corrupted with heinous graft, bill padding, and non existent purchases, for every dollar we spend on defense, probably 70 cents of it goes right into the pockets of our greedy , larcenous “war profiteers”.

    What a disgrace.

    • Replies: @turtle
  203. MarkinLA says:
    @tomgreg

    That was some silly attempt by Trump to look tough. In a real war they would lock onto the radar of the missile batteries, which has to be on for the surface to air missile to work. They would also have GPS guidance backup.

  204. turtle says:
    @alexander

    What is the book on which country will be the first to take out a U.S. Nimitz class carrier?
    When (not if) that happens, it will change naval warfare forever, in much the same way as sinking of battleships (Bismarck, Yamato, et. al) did in WWII.

    My guess would be China, but we shall see…

  205. Guspetch says:

    Re: (for a detailed outline of how this is likely to happen, please read John Michael Greer superb book “Twilight’s Last Gleaming“).

    I can’t find that title at Amazon for that author.
    ——————————————————

    Re: Shias have always been outnumbered and it was us who were targeted

    That should be “we”, not “us.” So many semi-literates clogging this forum.

  206. @DESERT FOX

    I watch very little tv and I would verify everything any of the talking heads say because, well, they are allowed their MSM platform for a reason. This includes Mr. Carlson (former Cato/Koch Bros. guy, correct?). They all want to “sell” the state and its administrators and their “policies”, whatever they may be, to the consuming public. It’s all very narrow and discourages independent thought. As Tom Woods puts it, their views on everything can fit on a 3X5 card and deviation/dissent is not allowed. Or else.

    Having said this, when someone gets something correct, I believe they should rightfully be lauded.

    Hannity is probably beyond redemption.

  207. Popeye says:
    @Miggle

    But by 1943 FDR believed that British french n Dutch colonial empires had to go.. along with Japanese empire. It’s difficult if not impossible to believe that FDR would have under any circumstances sided with Nazi Germany.

  208. RobinG says:
    @Talha

    IDK who’s filling MEK’s pockets, (some say KSA), but you don’t book a venue like where Bolton’s speaking for chump change, and in this video Daniel Benjamin of DOS quotes being offered lavish appearance fee.

    Why John Bolton Wants a Fringe Group to Rule Iran | NYT News

  209. @4justice

    Understood. Thanks for clarifying. I encourage you to continue to fight the good fight, even and especially when it is most dim.

    • Replies: @4justice
  210. RobinG says:
    @By-tor

    Yes, exactly. [AGREE button used.]

  211. @Amon

    No, sorry, I have to gather information where I can find it. Some times good info is worth the hassle.

  212. MarkinLA says:
    @turtle

    Nobody in the US, British, or Japanese navy thought the battleship was still the main capital ship during or even before WWII. They knew it’s day was over. That is why they were never the part of the main forward striking force.

    Nobody is going to sink a US carrier unless they want to start a nuclear war.

  213. When China cuts rare earths,
    And Huawei says, “Get lost.
    We’ll outlast you at any cost.”–
    Wipes ‘Murka’s happy-clappy mirth.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  214. @Colin Wright

    Trump knew Iran was no Syria and the possibility of heavy losses to his air force and navy were very real. Trump is a full blown narcissist and could give two shits about anyone other than himself. Get yo self educated.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201409/10-signs-youre-in-relationship-narcissist

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  215. Art says:
    @Art

    Our hero Donald J Trump – a courageous man who saved 150 lives and avoided a war, will ride those lives into 2020.

    There will be no war against Iran started by Trump.

    White House Pushes ‘Trump Pulled Back’ Story – He Likely Never Approved To Strike Iran

    By Moon Of Alabama

    June 21, 2019 “Information Clearing House” – Last night U.S President Trump allegedly pulled back from a military strike against Iran after it had already been ordered.

    That is the official story but there are doubts that it is true. The Iranian campaign of “maximum pressure” against Trump’s sanctions is still on. But there are first signs that it is successful.

    MORE:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51806.htm

    Think Peace — Art

  216. @Johnny Walker Read

    ‘…Trump is a full blown narcissist and could give two shits about anyone other than himself….’

    This is as opposed to…who, precisely?

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  217. @MarkinLA

    ‘…Nobody is going to sink a US carrier unless they want to start a nuclear war.’

    There you go. Now, when it sinks, you can work out who sank it.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  218. Beckow says:
    @peterAUS

    Nothing can ever be excluded because some actors might act irrationally, or out of desperation. But having a war between large forces (like US, Iran,…) is not a joke – it makes no sense and there is no such thing as ‘degrading opponent’s capability’ without going to full war and taking the consequences (casualties, costs). But stranger things have happened.

    Isn’t that the main purpose of this site?

    No way to know. I stay away from speculating on ‘purpose‘. It borders on motivation and that is – in my view – impossible to establish. We are not divine, and only a divine power can traditionally establish purpose or motifs, all else is conjecture, we can’t see into human minds. Only gods can see into our souls and they don’t participate in our discussions no matter how much assorted Pompeos and Shias try to claim them.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  219. RobinG says:
    @4justice

    Perfect account of demise of the peace movement. [It was clear from your 1st post that you meant they were MIA, hence Tucker the lone voice.] I’d just add the subversion of the movement by funding and channeling into domestic issues, identity politics, etc. When Soros et al fund the lefty groups, it’s to keep them off the 3rd rail.

    Tomorrow I plan to have a FIRE BOLTON sign:

    This is not a drill: Join us Sunday, June 23 to protest outside the White House to say: No War with Iran!

    When: Sunday, June 23, 1PM-2PM
    Where: The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW Washington, D.C.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @redmudhooch
  220. “Trump claims” is the key expression here. I can claim to be a Martian, but that wouldn’t make me one.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  221. @RobinG

    “Jail Bolton” and “Jail Soros” would be closer to the mark. After all, the law says that the people guilty of high treason should be in jail.

  222. Art says:

    War Dancer – Pompom Pompeo – Sings and dances for war. (His colors are blue and white.)

    VIPS Memo to the President: Is Pompeo’s Agenda the Same As Yours?

    By Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity

    VIPS says its direct experience with Mike Pompeo leaves them with strong doubt regarding his trustworthiness on issues of consequence to the President and the nation.

    June 21, 2019 “Information Clearing House” –

    MEMORANDUM FOR: The President.

    FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

    SUBJECT: Is Pompeo’s Agenda the Same As Yours?

    We are concerned that you are about to be mousetrapped into war with Iran. You have said you do not want such a war (no sane person would), and the observations below are based on that premise. In a word, we have serious doubts about Secretary Pompeo; it is clear to us that he has his own agenda, and we know from our own experience with him that his agenda is not always the same as yours.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51810.htm

    Think Peace — Art

  223. Sean says:
    @Cleburne

    Parochial Texas interests might like it, but Trump’s advisors will be articulating an overarching conception of US business interests, which entails moderate oil prices I think. A lot of people say the oil price decline is due to massive capital investment of virtually free money in new American technology and exploration. The US does not import oil at all now. It is artificially low oil prices that are killing Iran, because even if they got rid of sanctions there is no hope. They have decided to risk war rather than go on like that any longer. I don’t see much of a future for teeming but backward ME countries.

  224. nsa says:
    @MarkinLA

    “JFK was being deceived and lied to just like Trumpstein.”
    You may not be aware of it, but Lee Harvey Oswald was an Iranian double agent. Further, several very credible witnesses reported men in ninja outfits with scope sighted rifles speaking Farsi on the grassy knoll. How much more of this aggression can we take from these vicious Iranian nazis and their hired trolls like Turtle? Now the very same Iranian nazis are shooting down our peaceful environmental drones studying climate change and CO2 buildup in the ME. And worst of all, the Ayatollah Hitler is a holocaust denier calling it a jew fabrication, and even stating jews cheat everyone at their crappy trinket shops and blowout sale mattress stores……unlike Persian rug bazaars in Tehran where you get a good deal. This is hate speech of the very worst kind and needs to be severely punished………

    • LOL: Mike P, turtle
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  225. @turtle

    Won’t forget how surprised I was to see the HMS Sheffield burning (later sank) from an Argentine Exocet missile, a modern destroyer crippled by one inexpensive weapon. EW and point defense were non-existent. Sailors watched as two missiles skimmed the water five seconds away. As the Sheffield burned, they sang “Always Look on the Bright Side of Life” from “Monty Python’s Life of Brian.”

  226. @AnonFromTN

    Trump is the greatest liar and con man and charlatan in the history of America!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @AnonFromTN
  227. @MarkinLA

    Chinese Admiral Wants To “Sink Two US Aircraft Carriers” Over South China Sea

    Mere days after Chinese President Xi Jinping vowed to “resolutely” defend China’s security interest – a veiled reference to maintaining its domination of the South China Sea – News.au has published details from a speech delivered two weeks ago by one of China’s leading military commanders where he outlined a strategy to rebuff the US Navy should it take an even more interventionist posture within the nine-dash line.

    Rear Admiral Lou Yuan told an audience in Shenzhen that the simmering dispute over the East and South China Seas could be decisively ended by sinking two US aircraft carriers.

    Taiwan’s Central News Agency reported that Admiral Lou gave a long speech on the state of Sino-US relations, where he declared that the trade spat was “definitely not simply friction over economics and trade,” but a “prime strategic issue.” And that if China wants the US to back off, it must be willing to attack US ships when they intrude in Chinese territory.

    During the Dec. 20 speech to the 2018 Military Industry List summit, Lou declared that China’s anti-ship ballistic and cruise missiles were capable of hitting US carriers, even when they were in the middle of a “bubble” of defensive escorts.

    “What the United States fears the most is taking casualties,” Admiral Lou declared.

    He said the loss of one super carrier would cost the US the lives of 5000 service men and women. Sinking two would double that toll.

    “We’ll see how frightened America is.”

    Lou also explained what he described as the US’s five vulnerabilities, and insisted that China must not hesitate to strike back at any of them should a US fleet even dare to stop in Taiwan.

    In his speech, he said there were ‘five cornerstones of the United States’ open to exploitation: their military, their money, their talent, their voting system — and their fear of adversaries.

    Admiral Lou, who holds an academic military rank – not a service role – said China should “use its strength to attack the enemy’s shortcomings. Attack wherever the enemy is afraid of being hit. Wherever the enemy is weak …”

    [Edited:]

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-01/chinese-admiral-wants-sink-two-us-aircraft-carriers-over-south-china-sea

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  228. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow

    ..there is no such thing as ‘degrading opponent’s capability’ without going to full war and taking the consequences (casualties, costs).

    There is.

    I posted (several times…) quite plausible scenario:
    US starts strikes->Iran tries to minimize the effects without escalating->After a month, at most, of that exercise the strikes stop.
    The (perceived) threat to Israel is degraded. The regime in Tehran remains. Trump’s chances of winning the next election are better, OR, his chance of not getting into deep shit after leaving the White House gets much better.

    Yes, it could go sideways culminating with M.A.D. but I wouldn’t put my money onto it.

    No way to know.

    Hehehe….sure.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  229. @War for Blair Mountain

    GLOBAL HOMO USS LIBERACE IN A GLITTERING GOWN Aircraft Carrier..

    Ain’t that about it? Heaven help us.

  230. @Miggle

    The USA was supporting the side that was not fighting the Japs but the Communists, being, the USA, fanatically anti-communist.

    Wrong.

    I know that’s the story, but it’s baloney at least according to Stillwell in his memoirs. He was supposed to be aiding the Chinese Nationalists, but was thwarted at every turn according to him. The Commies, on the other hand, basically sat out the war until the Nationalists bled themselves white, then strode in and took over.

    And now we know the more likely story.

    PS: International Communism was a tool of Wall Street and London banking mafia Commies. If it were not, they would not have gone to first base; in fact, we would have never heard of them, or even Marx for that matter.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @redmudhooch
    , @Parfois1
  231. @DESERT FOX

    ‘Trump is the greatest liar and con man and charlatan in the history of America!’

    If he was all that great, you wouldn’t have realized it.

  232. @Popeye

    Why are we supposed to take your unproven assertions as the gospel truth – simply because they are anti-American?

    Why do you think that? There are plenty of other options, so put your thinking cap on and get to work. My comments are anti-Wall Street goons, anti-usurer, and anti-International Commie. All those sets of fools are anti-American, so let’s see if you can deduce the correct conclusion.

    Anyway, I’m glad you asked.

    PS: I responded to Popeye’s unproven assertion in kind. You got a problem with that? And why didn’t you challenge him about it, or did you ?

  233. @DESERT FOX

    He has stiff competition: American history is chock-full of liars, con men, and charlatans. He actually might have sound instincts (horse sense), but a politician is a liar by definition. Remember: “How do you know a politician is lying?” “His lips are moving”.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @yurivku
  234. RobinG says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    What’s the title of his memoirs?

    Stilwell and the American Experience in China: 1911-1945 (by Barbara Tuchman) is a great read.

  235. @turtle

    Thanks for the reminder.

    How about this, The Bull of Phalaris?

  236. @Carroll Price

    Not sure, but I think the coffins are aluminum, not stainless steel.

    I’d guess they’re tin foil but billed to Uncle Sucker as solid gold.

  237. Trump is a coward of the highest order, and a trash talking degenerate, much like his “Israeli” BFF’s. He really is like the spoiled rich prick bully we all knew in grade school that ran around flapping his dick licker all the time till that one day some nerd in glasses backhanded him real proper, then he ran off crying like a baby to the teacher to tell on you. I would put dumb goyim pricks like Hannity in this same shitty category. Another loser.

    It really is a sight to behold, this is what being handed everything in life does to you, being born rich, never having to work a back breaking job for your dollar, never having to go hungry or worry about how you’re gonna pay rent and insurance. In a strange way, I kind of feel sorry for losers like him. Fucking entitled sissified prick. His offspring will be even worse, thats the problem in this wonderful country of ours, these spoiled brats are making the decisions that affect the rest of us, not only are they chicken shit rats, they’re also stupid a dogshit. Probably couldn’t figure out how to pour oil in their own car if they had to. Sad!

    Look into Trumps history, how his dad got rich, next time you hear Trump popping off his big mouth about socialism, fucking retardo hypocrite.

    Mr. Unz, OT but I looked into you claim of FDR knowing about Pearl Harbor, theres a lot of people that dispute the claim. I read this PDF by Admiral Richard E. Young

    https://mafiadoc.com/a-deceitful-book-robert-b-stinnetts-book-day-of-artbarnincorg_5a0dccad1723dd4f3ab0992c.html

    Here’s a video that disputes it. Seem legit to me.

  238. Theater among nonsense.

    “…stop the Iranian regime from threatening and destabilizing the region”.

    Hmmmmmm . . . So Israel Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and others are simply helpless in the fact of Iranian influence.

    I will that Pres Hussein, didn’t seem to have any any issues dealing with Iran by force if need be. That card is is simply played out. When we removed Pres Hussein, whatever nonnuclear constraints that were checks against Iran were removed. If states in the region can’t abide the matter. Then perhaps they can get support from the corporations who have been making money of their resources should stand to post.

    The contention noted above is not part of the JCPA agreement and trying to dragging it in now is acting in bad faith. But I guess if you have power, acting in bad faith is mere formality, not a matter of integrity.

    —————————————

    I have no doubt that Iran is exercising influence in the region. I am as disgruntled by it as most and perhaps more. That situation is due to our call and there is not much we can do about it aside from bolstering our allies in the region. it is simply naive to think installing some other Shia leadership is going to change relations with Sunnis.

  239. @RobinG

    You really think firing Bolton will solve anything? Like Bolton is the problem. Bolton is just a face for you to get mad at, he makes no decisions. Who’s paying Bloton and Trump?

    • Replies: @RobinG
  240. @Jacques Sheete

    You’re a real 1D thinker. But I understand.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
    , @Jacques Sheete
  241. Parfois1 says:
    @RobinG

    Thank you Robin, I had a long-lasting laugh from your “serious” reporting style. Top literary humour for comic relief. Are you unlocking a hidden talent in satire? Keep working on it!

    • Replies: @RobinG
  242. 4truth says:

    Yes, even in their slogans the antiwar left was lying to us. We heard “No war for oil” and believed it, when we should have known “wars for Israel” were the problem. Tucker Carlson says as much when he blames US warmongering on the neocons. We know who the neocons are working for — it is almost as good as naming Israel. Meanwhile, who was the antiwar movement working for?

  243. RobinG says:
    @Parfois1

    I’d like to try satire, but that’s from The Onion, author anonymous.

  244. RobinG says:
    @Talha

    Trita Parsi:

    “This leaked audio allegedly shows MEK terrorists colluding with Saudi (they’re funded by Saudi) to attack oil tankers in Persian Gulf and blame Iran. This is the same organization that pays Bolton to champion regime change in Iran. Audio hasnt been independently verified.”

    Exclusive: Leaked Audio Shows Saudi-MKO Collusion over Tanker Attacks
    https://ifpnews.com/exclusive/exclusive-leaked-audio-shows-saudi-mko-collusion-over-tanker-attacks/

  245. Parfois1 says:
    @Miggle

    The USA was supporting the side that was not fighting the Japs but the Communists, being, the USA, fanatically anti-communist.

    You are treading on hypersensitive toes here. The good all-moral uncle Sam supporting the Japanese in China! Even letting the Japanese use the fuel from the few oil refineries operating in the East to help the Japs’ plundering! That’s a No-No.

  246. Ron Unz says:
    @redmudhooch

    Mr. Unz, OT but I looked into you claim of FDR knowing about Pearl Harbor, theres a lot of people that dispute the claim. I read this PDF by Admiral Richard E. Young

    Since I look at only a small fraction of the comment-threads, it’s very lucky I noticed your Pearl Harbor comment here.

    But you really should put under the big Pearl Harbor article by Powell, so that people interested in that subject will see it and be able to properly respond. If you do so, I’ll try to respond as well.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
  247. RobinG says:
    @redmudhooch

    Francis Boyle, professor of international law at the University of Illinois, has this to say about the legality of a US attack on Iran:

    “Iran has not committed an “armed attack” upon the United States that would trigger the right of self-defense set forth in UN Charter Article 51. So under the current circumstances as they stand now, a U.S. military attack upon Iran would constitute Armed Aggression and a Nuremberg Crime against Peace as set forth even in US Army Field Manual 27-10 (1956), which is still valid and binding. Also the Trump administration has no authorization from the United States Congress to wage war against Iran and thus an attack upon Iran would violate the War Powers Clause of the United States Constitution and Congress’s own War Powers Resolution. For these reasons, such an attack would also constitute an Impeachable Offense under the U.S.Constitution. As a preventive measure, it would be my advice that a Member of the U.S. House of Representatives immediately introduce Bills of Impeachment against John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. I hereby offer my services free of charge to any Member of the U.S. House willing to do so.”

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/06/21/the-us-as-rogue-nation-number-1/

    • Replies: @anon
    , @KA
  248. It’s the Neo Cons but it’s also Trump’s style. He used the same threat/retreat type style with N.Korea and also used it in business dealings throughout his career.

  249. Parfois1 says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Wouldn’t be surprised to find that the Japanese militarists were supported by the usual international bankster goons like Lenin and Stalin,

    Lenin and Stalin supported Japanese militarists!

    That quote is a disgrace for any one who might claim even a skerrick of understanding of history or international relations and events.

    Such a statement is not only disgraceful for the utterer’s reputation, it is a comical self-denunciation of mental deformity.

    Thank you for the public self-criticism. The mask is off.

  250. Parfois1 says:
    @EoinW

    In the 21st century West we are just like I was at the age of 6. The only difference is that we’ve substituted parents for Big Brother government.

    That was well-aimed at the solar plexus (although hitting below the belt as well somehow) of the great patriots here who squirm daily about the malignant Nose in charge of their Big Brother government and supplicantly prostrate themselves for more flagellation. They are already discussing whether to elect Tweedledum or Tweedledee as head of the Nose-appointed Big Brother Goldstein for more uplifting sadomasochist flogging.

    At least the old whites did something about the scourge from autos-de-fe up to Stalin’s purges. If the US patriots want deliverance from the whip, they better learn from Uncle Joe, not from the Nosey Uncle Sam.

  251. Parfois1 says:
    @foolisholdman

    I hope that makes the distinction clear.

    Very clear Oldman, and thanks for the instruction. Mao had the knack to make even the most esoteric principle into a homely chat.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  252. Parfois1 says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    PS: International Communism was a tool of Wall Street and London banking mafia Commies. If it were not, they would not have gone to first base; in fact, we would have never heard of them, or even Marx for that matter.

    You keep on compounding deceit with ignorance, the symptoms of an insane ego gone berserk.

    Why degrading yourself with public admissions of stupidity? Maybe symptons of sadomasochism?

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  253. Parfois1 says:
    @redmudhooch

    You’re a real 1D thinker. But I understand.

    You are very understanding and charitable, which I admire. But I find it hard to abide venomous intent to denigrate Communism by proclaiming false associations with the scions of capitalism and Zionism, the Judeo-Communist-bankers trope and other vulgar inanities proffered as the expression of evident truths. Maybe one should exercise Christian restraint and tolerance towards ignorance and malignancy but using the soapbox to propagate absurdities should be resisted like an infection.

  254. On a number of occasions Trump has expressed concerns about the price of oil and it’s impact on his chances of re-election so , unless American servicemen are killed , any substantial attacks against Iran will most likely wait until after the 2020 election .

  255. @redmudhooch

    I almost missed your comment, but your comments about rich brats is spot on. In general, they are an astonishingly sick and useless bunch. Some will no doubt accuse me of being “jealous,” for writing that and agreeing with you, but there is nothing to be jealous about.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  256. @Thales the Milesian

    What I am saying is that a democratically elected president appointed Bolton.

    While your innocence could be charming in other situations, it doesn’t cut the mustard on this topic. What makes you think the US is, or ever has been, a democracy? Did you know that one of the reasons the antifederalists opposed the constitution is that it further consolidated power in the hands of a few, which is what’s called an oligarchy? The US government has always been an oligarchy and I do not see how the two forms of government can exist; if you can, please let me know.

    The US government itself doesn’t claim to be a democracy. In fact, the CIA World Fact Book used to call it a constitutional federal republic with a strong democratic tradition. The last phrase has been dropped as of several years ago.

    Current description.:

    [USA]Government type:

    constitutional federal republic

    Can you imagine them calling it what it really is, i.e., an oligo-plutocracy?

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  257. @Parfois1

    Here’s how Commie dupes respond when they have no argument.:

    You keep on compounding deceit with ignorance, the symptoms of an insane ego gone berserk.
    Why degrading yourself with public admissions of stupidity? Maybe symptons of sadomasochism?

    Nice job, beautiful. Keep ’em coming; I’m sure you’ve convinced everyone to your views with your well researched, thoroughly documented, and air tight reasoning. Meanwhile, thanks for the laughs.

  258. @MarkinLA

    I shall respond, but since your comments indicate that you’re more interested in initiating a pissing contest than in seriously pursuing the subject, I’m going to allow myself a few shortcuts. Tossing pearls before swine is not my idea of an effective use of my time.

    [MORE]

    Proof?

    Here’s a pretty good primer; it seems to cover several of your questions. I have not studied it; merely googled it for you and scanned it; therefore you’ll be wasting your time if you pee and moan about some triviality it may present that you may not like.

    Japanese Diplomacy Before Pearl Harbor

    The ball was in Japan’s court.

    You’ll need to prove that one.

    Why did they need to negotiate with the US in order to leave China?

    Because the US wanted them to leave. FDR’s Reds supported the Commies in the USSR, in China and in the USA. That’s why the anti-Commie Japanese were forced out by the US. Also, if the Japanese were allowed to organize and cooperate with China (remember Japan’s “Monroe Doctrine, the East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere?) it would have resulted in significant competition for the Brit, Soviet, and American Empires. So, can you understand why the US based (Wall Street) international Commie bankers wanted Japan out?

    That Japan did not want to be humiliated is irrelevant.

    It may well be, but the fact is that the Japanese diplomats were treated with gross disrespect by FDR and some in his admin, and that tells me that the US government was not serious in dealing reasonably with Japan but instead wanted war. Bullies love to taunt and goad their intended victims as the current article demonstrates. Therefore your comment misses the point.

    Now, in the future, if you expect a reasonable response, then get with the program and comment respectfully. That means dropping the personal attacks among other things.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  259. anon[356] • Disclaimer says:

    The embargo was because Japan continued to occupy part of China”

    Did Japan bomb USA be cause of continued occupation of Hawai ? Don’t know but it would have made sense. Or may be it was because of continued occupation of Philippines .

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  260. @Jacques Sheete

    Correction:

    I wrote,

    The US government has always been an oligarchy and I do not see how the two forms of government can exist;

    I meant to write,

    The US government has always been an oligarchy and I do not see how the two forms of government can co-exist;

  261. @redmudhooch

    You’re a real 1D thinker. But I understand.

    Hey, I never claimed to be anything but. On the other hand, some call it focus, so thanks for de compliment! In gratitude, here’s a smooch for redhudhooch…KISS.

  262. anon[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @RobinG

    How does Adelsohn get the money ?

    How does he decide to give the money to the which Jew suckers?

    How does he get the foreign money inside USA?

    How does he reach out and find out who the best Jew sucker is?

    How does he plant the talking points about Israel on the media and in the loops of the politicians?

    How does he force the media that his hateful anti American but pro Israeli Zionist speech and intention dont get picked up by the media as example of nothing but hateful anti American but pro Israeli Zionist speech and intention ?

    Who decide to prosecute vague hate speech and incitement but ignore national and international incitement to violence against other countries that are spewed out by Adelson and his tribe?
    Who decide to send and how they mange to send these people in the DOJ to ignore Adelsohn and ignore similar elephants in the room ?

    Who decides to remember and dust off the shelve the “Logan Act” against certain people when acting for certain ‘Israeli styled hostile countries , countries but sleep on that act and force the Americans to sleep on that act every month every year every decade when the country is the Jew country?

    Who decides to lambaste president by labeling him wimp or presidential and decisive depending ding on if he were not or he were attacking Muslim countries?

    What is the relation between these people and the people who say “ We dint have leverage against Israel”?

    What is the relation between these people and the people who say” You dont force your allies “?

    What is the relation between these people and the people who say” Israel is our only ally and fighting against the forces we are fighting and Israel would need more help ?”

    What is the relation between these people and the people who say “ Americans do support Israeli action in Syria in Gaza “?

    How do they connect the lies and build on those lies new arguments -like they are building now about Trump saying “Like Obama Trump is ignoring the facts and like him he is calling off the strikes”?
    Who are these that get the idea that 2 is 2 here in USA but 2 is nit 2 in Iran ? They think Israel can attack Syria and it can be called normal justified and even pro American activity but thinks Iran can’t safeguard its borders and can’t defend it allies and can’t react to pressure applied agusint it?
    The media is not that intelligent . Who tells Hannity or CNN’s equal robocall artists to echo Israeli pitch for wars?

  263. @Colin Wright

    My point is “they” are all the same. Here is a great little read for you.
    https://cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  264. @Parfois1

    Mao had the knack to make even the most esoteric principle into a homely chat.

    Apparently he also had a knack for making the homliest of chaps imagine that they were privies to the most esoteric of principles as well. 😉

  265. @MarkinLA

    That does not change the fact that Japan gave them that reason and could have avoided it

    Proof?

    I think they could have managed to avoid it about as well as the Germans or the Iraqis or the Libyans could have.

    Iran has not been able to avoid economic warfare, and I doubt that they could avoid the shooting type if the crazies like Bolton have their way.

  266. @AnonFromTN

    I could also add traitor, but this applies to most of congress aka the lower house of the knesset also!

  267. @redmudhooch

    Loved your rant on Trump and his ilk BUT, you are quite wrong on the Pearl Harbor issue. FDR was an even bigger POS than Trump, believe it or not. FDR not only knew the attack was coming, he did all he could to make sure Japan would be lured into attacking Pearl Harbor.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  268. @Parfois1

    The mask is off.

    It certainly is. You deliberately mis-quoted me. Naughty naughty. Very nasty, too. Typical Commie mentality with a Marxist style of deranged, bitterly hateful, invenctive.

  269. @Parfois1

    Such a statement is not only disgraceful for the utterer’s reputation, it is a comical self-denunciation of mental deformity.

    Pretty funny. I think you meant “self-announcing.”

    Anyway, thanks for proving that time spent dealing with you is time wasted. Have a nice day.

  270. KA says:
    @RobinG

    In a phone conversation between the two men reported in The Intercept, Bolton is quoted:

    “You have 24 hours to leave the organization, and if you don’t comply with this decision by Washington, we have ways to retaliate against you.” After a moment’s pause, Bolton specified the consequences of not resigning: “We know where your kids live. You have two sons in New York.”

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/06/21/the-douma-gas-attack-whats-the-evidence-it-was-a-false-flag/

    Bolton is a rat .

    But he has been UN representative !. He talks of human rights and values and often talks of chemical stuff (his brain is made of ).

    America usually would not have allowed this guy to continue. But Bolton has contacts outside the country in the occupied desert and in the domestic desert casino.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  271. @Johnny Walker Read

    That was a great little article and I found this to be quite sobering. It certainly explains a lot.:

    Current day statistics tell us that there are more psychologically sick people than healthy ones. If you take a sampling of individuals in any given field, you are likely to find that a significant number of them display pathological symptoms to one extent or another. Politics is no exception, and by its very nature, would tend to attract more of the pathological “dominator types” than other fields.

  272. @Johnny Walker Read

    Loved your rant on Trump and his ilk BUT, you are quite wrong on the Pearl Harbor issue. FDR was an even bigger POS than Trump, believe it or not. FDR not only knew the attack was coming, he did all he could to make sure Japan would be lured into attacking Pearl Harbor.

    I agree and am astounded that people still don’t understand the truth about FDR and PH. It was a day of infamy for sure. It should be well appreciated and common knowledge by now that the infamy was all FDR’s.

    • Agree: Mulegino1
    • Replies: @anon
  273. Agent76 says:
    @Republic

    A flashback- WMD LIES – Bush Cheney Rumsfeld – THE ULTIMATE CLIP

    Who buys this stuff? 99% of America doesn’t pay attention to the news enough to know our politicians are akin to actors and actresses. Only they’re not very good at it. They just depend on you not paying attention. So pay attention!

  274. @KA

    Speaking of bullies…

    BOLTON’S HISTORY OF bullying, in fact, is well-documented. Carl W. Ford Jr, the State Department’s former intelligence chief, called Bolton “a serial abuser” of junior employees and “a quintessential kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy.” Testifying before the Senate in 2005, Ford discussed the case of Christian Westermann, the former chief bioweapons analyst at the State Department who had refused to sign off on a speech accusing Cuba of possessing a secret bioweapons program and had been “berated” by Bolton, who “then tried to have him fired.”

    Melody Townsel, a former U.S. Agency for International Development contractor, said she was harassed by the short-tempered Bolton, then a lawyer in the private sector, on a visit to Kyrgyzstan in 1994: “Mr. Bolton proceeded to chase me through the halls of a Russian hotel — throwing things at me, shoving threatening letters under my door and, generally, behaving like a madman,” she later recalled, in a letter to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

    https://theintercept.com/2018/03/29/john-bolton-trump-bush-bustani-kids-opcw/

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Iris
  275. @Jacques Sheete

    Re Rich Brats: this is the breed that is turned out, in England, by the “Public” Schools. (So-called!) Only 25% of those in managerial positions in British industry have any business qualifications at all, Most of them are ‘Rich Brats’ of the general type as Trump, even if more polished, and they one of the main reasons for the post WW2 industrial decline of Britain IMHO. Most of them have zero respect for any working stiff and no understanding of of the work their companies do and it shows.
    David Cameron and Boris Johnson are examples of the type.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  276. Iris says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    “Mr. Bolton proceeded to chase me through the halls of a Russian hotel — throwing things at me, shoving threatening letters under my door and, generally, behaving like a madman,” she later recalled, in a letter to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

    In a way, it is a consolation to see how low Israel has to scrap the Goyim barrel to find and select her shills. Best.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Jacques Sheete
  277. @MarkinLA

    JFK was being deceived and lied to just like Trump.

    Hey, we were all deceived and lied to. Let’s hope Trump makes out better than JFK did.

    JFK’s big weakness was that he was in large part a public relations creation and came from a part gangster background. He was weak and thought that the revelation of weakness was death (hence use of stimulant and painkilling drugs that were debilitating long term in order to hide what he thought were immediately deadly revelations of physical weakness). To quote Jules Fifer [1] (JFK contemporary cartoonist) “One of these days they’re going to find me out and take it all away”[2].

    Trump really is strong independently, and has failed several times, so he knows that appearing weak doesn’t mean it will all be taken away.

    1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=feifer+cartoonist&t=ffsb&atb=v114-1&ia=web
    2] Jules Fifer.
    Six, Six, Sick: A guide to non-confident living.
    1959.
    See strip concerning protagonist “Irwin Corpulent”.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  278. anon[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    FDR did a lot of things that turned out not very well. Like allowing Jewish power to destroy crony capitalism But once Jewish power became entrenched , we the see the return of the same but in the hands of the Jews.
    Teddy Roosevelt was possibly worst sucker or was helpless So was 2nd Roosevelt .
    2nd Roosevelt would have faced possible communist take over if he did not allow some degree of middle class rescue which was agin made possible by Jewish lawyers .Once the Jews got into power they created their own exclusive mercantile academic ,deep state -military -intelligence pentagon classes.

    FDR possibly faced major coup by Soveit spies .

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  279. Deschutes says:

    It’s not a question of ‘if’ there will be war between USA and Iran, but rather a question of ‘when’. There definitely will be a war, most likely by this fall at the latest. The reason being is simple: it’s all falling into place, just like in the lead up to Iraq 2003. A country like the USA which bases its economy on a military-capitalist economy always, always needs new wars for the military-industrial-complex. Peace means no profits for General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, etc. You can rest assured the USA will attack Iran, and just like with Iraq do another regime change. It’s coming.

    But even more importantly, we need to step back and look at how the U.S. capitalist economy has functioned since WWII and thereafter. As you know, there was a terrible stock market crash back in 1929. Wiped out ALL the businesses not only in USA, but Europe too. All throughout the 1930s in USA, capitalism was in ruins: no jobs, breadlines, Grapes of Wrath, just horrible times. The only place in the world that was thriving was in communist Russia whose economic growth was phenominal…and making the American oligarchs quite nervous as more and more Americans thought capitalism was a failed system and socialism was better.

    But then WWII started–and suddenly all of the laid off workers at Ford and GM in Detroit were called back to work! Factories sitting stagnant suddenly were in full swing cranking out guns, tanks, trucks and ammo to defeat the Axis. The Allies won the war, and the capitalist economy was revived thanks to–WAR! Everything about capitalism changed because of WWII: the business elites realized that war is the best way to make capitalism work, and work well!

    After WWII ended in 1945, the USA entered the cold war: it was the perfect gift to the military-industrial-complex that was born during WWII! The threat of Communist Russia was all that was needed to keep military spending in America at astronomical highs never before experienced. And the rest…right up to today is history: year on year record breaking military spending in the USA! Pre-WWII capitalism morphed into Post-WWII capitalism which was totally war based. Defense spending was the perfect way to keep the American economy of the 50s-60s-70s-80s-90s-00s-up to now working, and not like in the 1930s failing. But the USA has become a military police state as a result, and we can all see the wretched results of this death economy.

    The prognosis is grim: the USA’s economy must have ‘war without end’ to perpetuate its war based capitalism. This will result in endless regime change wars, but especially dangerous is the immanent risk of nuclear war with Russia and China. So, my main point is that the USA is totally fucked up because its form of capitalism needs war to keep it working, and that peace is the very last thing USA wants in the world, because peace would mean its economy would collapse.

  280. anon[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    Bolton was ready He campaigned for the removal of the fact Zionism is racism from UN . He knew where the money was .

    Yes Zionists
    has to scrape the barrel .They can’t stand honest person . They want tainted corrupted person . Two things – the dishonest leech like Bolton Cheney Bush Rubio Graham Cruz –would be ready to do more bad things and
    they wouldn’t dare to change the usurper nation’s power and machination. Because they would be exposed. Same applies to UK politicians military strategists and public figures . Equally true of Saudi Royals.

    • Replies: @Iris
  281. DinoN says:

    Why is America always picking fights with 3rd World Countries? How can Americans be so shameless!

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  282. anon[356] • Disclaimer says:

    Connect the dots-

    1 KABUL: Taliban militants claim that the US soldiers saved fighters affiliated with the Daesh terrorist group as well as their local leaders by helicopters from a siege they were trapped in the eastern province of Kunar.
    In a statement, the insurgents said Friday that they had been launching an “operation” against the Daesh terrorist group for one week in Kunar and had surrounded the group’s important individuals.
    “The US troops saved them from the siege by helicopters,” the statement said.—http://www.afghanistantimes.af/taliban-accuse-us-troops-of-helping-daesh-fighters/

    ( Russia Pakistan Syria BBC Hamid Karzai – all have accused or shown the proofs of uS enabling protecting and helicoptering ISIS )

    2 US special representative on Iran Brian Hook had a rough go in the House of Representatives today, where officials were pressing him to admit that Iran had nothing to do with 9/11 and he was really reluctant to answer. 

Pressed on the matter, Hook’s first answer to the House Foreign Affairs subcommittee was that “I’m not a War Powers Act scholar.
    This was an issue because committee members were very keen to make the point that the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) after 9/11 does not authorize a US attack on Iran,
    https://news.antiwar.com/2019/06/19/us-official-pressed-to-say-iran-not-behind-9-11-as-congress-warns-against-war/

    3 Secretary of State Mike Pompeo Exposes Himself To Jewish Leadership
    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo gave a foreign policy speech to the presidents of major Jewish organizations.
    -Pompeo was about to get into other Middle East issues like Iran but expressed concern that someone might be taping the conversation and the information could be too sensitive. https://original.antiwar.com/kevin-b-zeese/2019/06/19/us-foreign-policy-exposed/

    4 The American intelligence community has no evidence that al Qaeda has cooperated with the Iranian government in its recent aggressive moves in the Persian Gulf region, a senior U.S. government official told members of Congress on Tuesday. 
    That finding, which was relayed to The Daily Beast by three sources familiar with the matter, could undercut a potential legal case for going to war with Iran if tensions between Washington and Tehran keep escalating The significance of the admission is likely to divide lawmakers. Democrats who worry about the prospect of war between the U.S. and Iran will likely say that the lack of intelligence means the Trump administration cannot use Congress’s 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) to fight al Qaeda as a legal basis to start a war with the regional power. 
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-intel-to-congress-no-evidence-al-qaeda-is-helping-iran

    5 Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (!) is making noises about ties between al Qaeda and Iran
    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a28106064/iran-war-mike-pompeo-al-qaeda-donald-trump/

    6 Pomepo- “We lie we steal “

  283. Iris says:
    @anon

    Bolton was ready He campaigned for the removal of the fact Zionism is racism from UN . He knew where the money was .

    He is worse than just greedy, no?

    Didn’t he use to have his wife raped at a NYC swingers’ club, of which he finally got kicked out after propositioning a 16 year old outside the club?
    This is the sort of filth Zionists use to control a country.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0505/S00240.htm

  284. 4justice says:
    @OEMIKITLOB

    Absolutely. As long as lives are at stake, we have no right to give up – we just need to understand the various forces at work and seek to find the most effective way forward.

    For now, I think the Logos Rising movement is the best hope. I find the work of E Michael Jones to be extremely helpful. Identity politics is a scam and plays on emotions. We need to always try and bring the thinking back to rational, honest thinking and unlike the Talmudic atheist Jewish-supremacist revolutionaries that have shaped the left in the US, I believe faith in God is important to remind us to be humble and to remind us to see the sacred in all human beings. We must learn to recognize our enemies and stop them, but we must not promote hatred of anyone, even the mendacious satanic sociopaths that foment war and genocide. Hate serves their ends. Love is the biggest threat. Refusing to be triggered, refusing to write off entire groups of humanity all thwart their sick divide and conquer strategy for distraction. Withdrawing from the blood sucking addictive industries such as usury, pornography, gambling, alcohol and/or drugs, facebook, etc. frees us to be a stronger and more effective. Start by freeing our own minds, strengthening our own selves physically, mentally, and spiritually, strengthening our families and moving out from there.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @OEMIKITLOB
  285. Iris says:

    Incredible “diplomacy”:

    President Trump:

    “I have some hawks. John Bolton is absolutely a hawk. If it was up to him he’d take on the whole world at one time.“

  286. RobinG says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    Next bunch of foreigners who see a way to run their native country again …. treat them like the legacy media treats Trump and point out what happened the last ten times anybody listened to them.

    It’s the anti-Iranian, Iranian terrorist cult MEK singing to Bolton and Pompeo now.

  287. @Iris

    In a way, it is a consolation to see how low Israel has to scrap the Goyim barrel to find and select her shills. Best.

    Yes. That thought occurs often to me as well, Iris! It’s especially clear when one reads what the hasbara trolls produce. Their activities have to be counter productive, in fact, but they persist nd I love it.

    Peace.

  288. @anon

    FDR possibly faced major coup by Soveit spies .

    That was a done deal, and both Frankie and Eleanor were active participants. If he was merely Pink, she was actually Red.

  289. @Deschutes

    There definitely will be a war, most likely by this fall at the latest.

    The USA has been waging various types of war on Iran for decades. No “will” about it.

  290. @DinoN

    Why is America always picking fights with 3rd World Countries?

    It’s what bullies and the ruling classes have always done. Never ending battle.

  291. @Deschutes

    “A country like the USA which bases its economy on a military-capitalist economy always, always needs new wars for the military-industrial-complex.”

    On the contrary, this warmongering madness has nothing to do with the “military-industrial-complex” (whatever that is); orange clown and his handlers do what they do because they’re evil. Why do they need war to steal, print money, etc?

    “So, my main point is that the USA is totally fucked up because its form of capitalism needs war to keep it working, and that peace is the very last thing USA wants in the world, because peace would mean its economy would collapse.”

    How come it didn’t collapse during the Carter and Reagan years?

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    , @Deschutes
  292. @foolisholdman

    Look at who would’ve agreed with us.:

    “…I reflected in my Mind on the extreme Folly of those Parents, who, blind to their Childrens Dullness, and insensible of the Solidity of their Skulls, because they think their Purses can afford it, will need send them to the Temple of Learning, where, for want of a suitable Genius, they learn little more than how to carry themselves handsomely, and enter a Room genteely, (which might as well be acquir’d at a Dancing-School,) and from whence they return, after Abundance of Trouble and Charge, as great Blockheads as ever, only more proud and self-conceited.

    …[and] he, without much Study, presently interpreted it, assuring me, That it was a lively Representation of HARVARD COLLEGE, Etcetera. I remain, Sir, Your Humble Servant,

    Silence Dogood, (No. 4)

    Printed in The New-England Courant, May 14, 1722.
    http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/courant/silencedogood4.htm

    Note the date.:

    [Annually] our university heads as a rule pray only for the greatest possible number of freshmen to squeeze money from, and do not care whether they are educated or not, provided they are sleek, well groomed, and good-looking, and in one word, men of means.

    Philosophasters innocent of the arts become Masters of Arts, and those are made wise by order who are endowed with no wisdom, and have no qualifications for a degree save a desire for it.

    Theologasters, if they can but pay, have enough learning and to spare, and proceed to the very highest degrees. Hence it comes that such a pack of vile buffoons, ignoramuses wandering in the twilight of learning, ghosts of clergymen, itinerant quacks, dolts, clods, asses, mere cattle …

    – Robert Burton, The Anatomy of Melancholoy (1621), Part 1,Sect.2, Mem.3. Subs 15. Pg. 201 Burton

    https://archive.org/stream/anatomyofmelanch00burt#page/200/mode/2up/search/university

  293. @Harold Smith

    “So, my main point is that the USA is totally fucked up because its form of capitalism needs war to keep it working, and that peace is the very last thing USA wants in the world, because peace would mean its economy would collapse.”

    How come it didn’t collapse during the Carter and Reagan years?

    The mere threat of such in one form or another keeps it well oiled; it’s an old concept.:

    I address my most fervent prayer to prevent our adopting a system destructive to liberty. Let not gentlemen be told that it is not safe to reject this [new]government. Wherefore is it not safe? We are told there are dangers, but those dangers are ideal; they cannot be demonstrated.…

    – Patrick Henry,
    Foreign Wars, Civil Wars, and Indian Wars—Three Bugbears,
    June 5, 7, and 9, 1788

    The constitution itself was promoted using threats as Henry was pointing out, above. Here Grayson argues against that as well.:

    We have been told of phantoms and ideal dangers to lead us into measures which will, in my opinion, be the ruin of our country. If the existence of those dangers cannot be proved, if there be no apprehension of wars, if there be no rumors of wars, it will place the subject in a different light, and plainly evince to the world that there cannot be any reason for adopting measures which we apprehend to be ruinous and destructive.

    William Grayson, We have been told of Phantoms 11 June 1788

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  294. Randolph Bourne commented that war is the health of the state. It’s a very old concept.

    Convinced that the vigour of the State was becoming enfeebled through inaction, he looked all round for a pretext for getting up a war.

    -Titus Livius (Livy), The History of Rome, Book 1 Liv. 1 22, Describing Tullus Hostilius (r. 673 BC – 642 BC) who was the legendary third king of Rome.
    Rev. Canon Roberts, Ed.

    One more.

    Cleon:SAUSAGE-SELLER
    You are like the fishers for eels; in still waters they catch nothing, but if they thoroughly stir up the slime, their fishing is good; in the same way it’s only in troublous times that you line your pockets.

    – Aristophanes, The Knights, 424 BC

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  295. @Jacques Sheete

    “The mere threat of such in one form or another keeps it well oiled; it’s an old concept.:”

    Indeed; that would’ve been my next point.

    Generally speaking, once a country becomes as corrupt as the U.S., the official “threat” can be flesh-eating zombies, aliens from outer space or whatever nonsense our masters might happen to wake up with in the morning. There are no limits.

    Thus if “profit” was the motive they wouldn’t need to pick and address “threats” in such a manner as to risk WW3 (if not planetary extinction), because what good is “profit” if your country is a pile of nuclear ash?

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  296. @peterAUS

    ‘I posted (several times…) quite plausible scenario:
    US starts strikes->Iran tries to minimize the effects without escalating->After a month, at most, of that exercise the strikes stop.
    The (perceived) threat to Israel is degraded. The regime in Tehran remains. Trump’s chances of winning the next election are better, OR, his chance of not getting into deep shit after leaving the White House gets much better.’

    Let’s reverse this. Iran openly mounts multiple strikes on the US, killing numerous Americans.

    The administration strives to minimize the effects without escalating.

    Anything strike you as implausible about that?

    So why should the Iranians prove capable of the reverse?

    Israel knows they can’t, and so she’s having us push until Iran ‘attacks.’ Then we’ll be nobly defending ourselves against aggression.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  297. @Jacques Sheete

    “Randolph Bourne commented that war is the health of the state. It’s a very old concept.”

    That statement has to be qualified, IMO. War is the “health” of evil states; especially uniquely evil states like “America” which are run by uniquely evil people.

    You don’t see other countries at war 93% of the time (or whatever ridiculous number it is) since they came into existence and squandering everything of value in a hopeless quest to dominate and control the world…while risking nuclear annihilation.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  298. peterAUS says:
    @Colin Wright

    You mean why Iran can not do what US can?
    Or, why it would be idiotically suicidal for Iran to do what US can do with ease and impunity?
    I’ll pass.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  299. @peterAUS

    ‘You mean why Iran can not do what US can?
    Or, why it would be idiotically suicidal for Iran to do what US can do with ease and impunity?
    I’ll pass.’

    I don’t mean either one. What I mean is that failing to respond to naked aggression would be politically suicidal for any US leader — and it would be politically suicidal for any Iranian leader.

    …and we’re counting on that. We’re pushing Iran into a corner and giving her one more poke…

    It’s called starting a war.

  300. @Iris

    At least he knows it , and readily admits it in front of mainstream television networks. Why doesn’t he fire these hawks? This is so unbecoming of him, I mean I know the system is POZZED to the hilt and whatnot, but there was a teeny tiny semblance of hope there because I know what he had to say about the wars of the past and his thoughts on 911 and whatever. Shame

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  301. @anonymous

    yes to what you wrote above. I must say I find your use of an anonymous handle a little bit rude when you are obviously a regular. I married into a Sunni family and basically learned first about Islam through the Hanafi madhab. An educated and averagely pious family, with one son Hafiz and one of 4 girls is quite pro Wahhabi. My wife herself as well as her grandmother (RIP) and her mother are fairly empathic towards Shia Islam. My wife shose my name Abbass, which is a typically Shia name. I myself drifted increasingly towards sympathy with Shias as I learned more and saw more examples of Muslims and was able to recognise the difference.

    Now you evidently have a tinned version understanding of Shia Islam. Shias are not monolithic in their expressions and beliefs. The main aspect of Shia Islam is a strict non-interpretive adherence to the Quran and the belief in a lineage for the leadership of the Ummah. The Ayatollah is elected and has a responsibility to rule according to Quran he is not empowered to interpret it.

    Sunnis on the other hand have a more familiar to Western eyes system of ‘leadership’ There are countless Imams whose main purpose is inpterpretation of Quran to their followers. Each has their own specific ideas although they tend to group around specific Imams who set the standards but the ideas of even these men tends to be cherry picked variously by their followers. Some rather blood curdling and hateful statements by certain Imams are loved by Wahhabis who follow the same one as other Sunnis who however ignore those sayings and only talk about more moderate ones. All this is counter to the commands from Allah in the Quran and it strays further and further from the truth as time goes on.

    In the end I did as many have before me and sought an answer to the Shia/Sunni division. In my research which was done with a completely open mind I discovered the answer is actually very simple and clear cut. Firstly I had become increasingly aware of a visceral hatred of Shias by many Sunnis. The sheer venom they pour out on them and the strange and disturbing practices and beliefs attributed to them and yours is a favorite, required understanding since I had already observed in practice Shias are a truly impressive and cohesive force which follows Islamic principles in warfare in a way no Sunni force was.

    The simplest answer for what happened and why is found in an incident referred to as the “Incident of the Pen” or the Incident of the Pen and Paper. For the longest time Sunnis even denied it happened. Then when it has been proved in debate between various sectarian leaders with the Ayatollah, the tactic turned to ignoring it then “interpreting it” to mean something other than what it clearly did. In short it shows an interloper had entered the inner group of the Prophet’s (SAW) followers. This man was sent as an assassin but was caught and converted to Islam. He became one of the prophet’s companions but near the death of Muhammad (SAW) he committed wicked and clearly devious act to ensure the will of the Prophet regarding his heir to power was kept hidden from all. The facts as recounted by witnesses leave no doubt, Umar was a liar and cheat. He is the one who then quickly gathered the faithful and pushed for an election of a leader (which he steered towards the oldest companion who soon died, and he was then able to maneuver into the role) whilst the close family of the Prophet were attending to his funeral. This was done to exclude the family and because it was well known among the conmpanions that Ali was to be successor. The violence which ensued took a while in fact. it was started by followers of Umar and who eventually became called Sunnis and it was against the family of the Prophet, including murdering Muhammad’s own daughter who was Ali’s wife. Indeed they may have done worse, there are implications between the lines. we see their heirs today in Daesh and know of what they are capable.

    However it was much more complex. Ali himself became th The fourth Caliph in fact despite it all. The atrocities which happened in those early years however have become a bane of contention and also the matter of succession. My research clearly put the Shias on top as far as following the Quran. They do not worship any but the one God, Allah and it is very wicked of anyone to say otherwise. They have something closer to a “sainthood” system which is what is misunderstood. They seek guidance and support from the spiirit of such ones in an ifnormal sense and I know of plenty of Sunnis who do the same. You should go and visit some tombs in Pakistan and get your eyes opened up. There is absolutely no differnce between the two in this respect. It is like taqiyah. Another false teaching whioch exists in the minds only of islamophobes. There is no permission in Islam to lie. EXCEPT where the lie will save a life. However if it is your own, Allah would be most pleased if we put our life on the line for the truth anytime. This doesn’t not extend to any other excuses. Muslims are not taught to hatenon-Muslims. There are Sunnis who trch tis misunderstanding but that is because they mistranslate a single Srabic word, Wali to mean friend, rather than ally or protector. We are told outright to befriend and be fair and hospitable to all but to ONLY take other Muslims as our protectors. We are even admonished to be protectors to non-Muslims in the event they are in our care, but we are told outright to NOT take non-Muslims as protectors….exactly what teh Gulf monarchies do. Iran has no defense treaties with anyone and now you know why.

    I don;t have to specifically reject anything you suggest since it is not what you assume and I have already stated that I same as all Shias believe in and follow ONE GOD Allah. There are none equal to him, he has no peer and no children nor parents. He is a mystery and grander than the universe even which we cannot even begin to comprehend. The one person all Muslims admire and love above all others is Muhammad (SAW) and He is a man same as all the others. Essa (Jesus) was also just a man, though the most excellent of men and those Christians who use him as an exclusive cypher for God are themselves blasphemers in our eyes. I was even uncomfortable with the whole sonof God thing when I was in the Christian priesthood honestly. I could see the obviousl implications of the Christian story were problematic given the presumed nature of God. The Christian concept is very primitive and never was going to stand the test of time and science unfortunately. It is the same God, they just don’t see more than a shadow of his true self, they look down at themselves for an understanding rather than up and out. Or at least inwards because Allah dwells in the infinite universe of your soul as he does the infinite universe we traverse with it.

  302. @anonymous

    I just realised you’re a Sunni. As usual Sunni hatred of Shias bubbles over, they just cannot help but challenge us. This is sad and was the first point against Sunni islam in my eyes. The feeling is generally NOT reciprocated by Shias who only question the right of Wahhabis and takfiris to claim Islam. They are Kharajites and that was ruled on by all five Madhab long since. A gay British spy frontman for the Rosthchild banking dynasty doesn’t get to overrule that!

    As I said the incident of the Pen is an eye opener.

    https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/islam/general-islamic-topics/124580-pen-paper-incident-tragic-thursday

    As for this polytheistic accusation against Shias that is absolute nonsense and is made up by hateful extremist Sunni Imams and Wahhabi freaks. It is achieved by taking certain phrases and acts out of context. Same as the assertion Shias practise Muttah or “temporary marriage” for licentiousness. This is an outright lie and furthermore Muttah is a teaching in the Quran. Umar who later claimed this teaching was changed, was actually CHANING THE WORD OF ALLAH by doing so. Does this not concern you? However in modern Iran Muttah is used to allow engaged couples to date without breaching Isamic codes and it does not lead to sexual relations until the marriage is complete.

    Shias have always maintained Aisha (RA) was aged 16 when engaged and 19 or 21 when married to Muhamad. (SAW) It was Sunnis and especially the Hanbalis I think who always wanted it to be 6 and 9 years. Them and haters of Islam. In fact the matter has been settled these days, the answer proves Shias were always correct. as would be expected of the family of the prophet. What about respecting the alul baht mr Sunni? Have we forgotten this command by our Prophet himself in our haste to belittle and murder his family?

    Now to illustrate the hypocrisy of Sunnis and their campaign against Shias let’s consider the Sunni practice of MISYAR which is “travellers marriage” and is not in the Quran and it is an invention by Sunnis to allow for sexual relations outside marriage! I began as a Sunni by default but having an open mind, open eyes and no dog in the fight as such I was able to look honestly at the sectarian issue and the answer is plain as the nose on your face. I enjoin you to study and think hard about the incident of the pen. it has a HUGE bearing on everything that came after. The matter is NOT insoluble, but it will require a majority of Muslims to reappriase their own beliefs and gaze honestly upon a history that has become clouded with hatred and misinformation.

    Do not mistake Shias understandable pride in their heros nor their great sorrow for the tragedy which befell them for worship. We have many great heros in our past thanks to our enemies pressure and Sunnis endless plans to exterminate us. Sunnis have very few uncompromised heroes by comparison. Of course you have fewer heroic names to call on when riding into battle but calling on the name of Allah when you go forth to destroy other Muslims is not a wise choice. Why do Sunnis feel so safe defaming and murdering Shias who to all intents and purposes are Muslims just like themselves? Have they no idea of the scale of their sin if they are wrong? How can they judge so surely? Aren’t we told that our judgements are flawed?

    Bismillah brother.

  303. @Popeye

    Oh, those great defenders of liberty and justice punishing those evil Japs for aggression! They had no trouble later though in stabbing Kai Shek in the back and helping their commie pal Mao take power. They also weren’t very worried about Soviet aggression and did everything in their power to help the Bolshevik monsters gain control of half of Europe and continue their well-established GULAG for another forty years. America is a gangster state run for and by Zionists and corporate giants to the detriment of ordinary Americans and much of the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    , @Jacques Sheete
  304. @BengaliCanadianDude

    ‘At least he knows it , and readily admits it in front of mainstream television networks. Why doesn’t he fire these hawks?’

    Because someone has him by the short ‘n curlies?

  305. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    He has stiff competition: American history is chock-full of liars, con men, and charlatans.

    Well said! But you’ve forgotten stupids, embiciles and ignorant bastards who’s quantity seem to be some new to US history

  306. Mulegino1 says:
    @brian boru

    Since I already used my “agree” button, I must write I agree with everything you have written here.

    It is clear that, circa 1941, concepts like “aggression” were used unilaterally to apply to evil upstarts like the Japanese and the Germans, while disregarded with respect to Great Britain, the US and the USSR, who between them controlled, in one way or another, most of the world’s landmass. When the Allies exercised imperial hegemony, it was about “expanding markets” and “democracy.” But when the Germans and Japanese sought to proactively continue the economic survival of their diminutive countries, it all of a sudden became “aggression.”

  307. bluedog says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    True except Trump doesn’t get to file bankruptcy this time around.!!!

  308. K14 says:
    @A123

    “Trump realizes that the Iranian people are the victims of sociopath Kahmeni”

    No! Iranian people are the victims of a sociopath AngloZioniste empire whose very origin was the genocide of Indian Americans and who has been at war for most of its short miserable existence!

    https://freakonometrics.hypotheses.org/50473

    Dear readers USI saber rattling with Iran is yet another of its endless “stumble”!?

    https://www.rt.com/usa/459429-us-media-language-war-propaganda/

    USI, the world is sick of your stumbles, sick of your lies and deceipt, sick of your endless wars and bullying, sick of your terrorism (of all breeds including economic), sick of your walls and sick of your utter arrogance and sick of your destruction of lives and lands!
    And the sooner your fall, the sooner the the liberation of all the vassals you you have chained!!
    And I believe that Iran and its allies will play a major role in your fall!
    I hope to live long enough to see that day!

  309. @Harold Smith

    That statement has to be qualified, IMO. War is the “health” of evil states; especially uniquely evil states like “America” which are run by uniquely evil people.

    I would counter that all states are evil but you’re correct in that there’s evil, then there’s uniquely evil, and that the ‘Merkin and Zionist empires are uniquely evil.

    You don’t see other countries at war 93% of the time (or whatever ridiculous number it is) since they came into existence and squandering everything of value in a hopeless quest to dominate and control the world…while risking nuclear annihilation.

    Excellent point.

  310. @brian boru

    Yup. To all. If the reaction is something other than cursing, name-calling and moaning, please let me know since it’d be a first.

  311. @Harold Smith

    Generally speaking, once a country becomes as corrupt as the U.S. …

    And it was corrupt outta the cradle, or more accurately, at conception or maybe even before! The constitution itself was a snow job, in fact, and the revolution was betrayed from the start.

    Thomas Jefferson and his friend Congressman James Madison violently opposed Hamilton’s vision…[and] [t]heir opposition morphed into a detestation of New York as the nation’s capital, because the city’s numerous wealthy merchants supposedly corrupted Congress…

    -Thomas Fleming, The Intimate Lives of the Founding Fathers, pg 46. (2009)

    Supposedly?

  312. The scalpel says: • Website
    @Alfred

    The 35 troops were special forces being inserted for covert operations/sabatoge. Iranian intelligence was aware of this and acted to prevent it. They chose to shoot down the drone that was escorting them in, instead of killing the troops. Iran signaled this to Trump by bringing up the other aircraft and the number of troops in it. Once Trump realized this was the truth, he called off retaliation that would have led to Iranian deaths

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  313. MarkinLA says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    Just another stupid flag officer who has his head up his ass. It looks like the US doesn’t have a monopoly on them.

  314. MarkinLA says:
    @Colin Wright

    I won’t matter. It will be assumed it was Iran, China or Russia. There are nukes enough for all of them.

  315. MarkinLA says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    The US has them as well, just not as much.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  316. MarkinLA says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Now, in the future, if you expect a reasonable response, then get with the program and comment respectfully.

    You should read your own comments before posting that.

    Who cares what the Japanese were doing before they attacked Pearl Harbor? The US made a simple demand that was non-negotiable – leave China. The Japanese wanted to keep part of China and have the US continue to supply their war machine. The US doesn’t have to negotiate anything. The US did not attack Japan they simply refused to trade with them. The US doesn’t need a reason to refuse to trade with somebody.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  317. @Ron Unz

    I understand that FDR was well acquainted with Pearl Bailey.

  318. Rurik says:
    @The Scalpel

    Thank you Scalpel, very scary stuff.

    If the zio-scum are able to pull off another war, things are going to get very ugly here at home, as they should.

    I hope our troops remember what fragging is.

    If it’s a decision to follow orders to slaughter Iranian civilians, in an illegal and aggressive war based on obvious lies, against yet another innocent nation and people, I’d like to think the soldiers would turn their weapons upon the criminal demanding war crimes be committed, and solve the problem there, rather than damning their own souls by murdering innocent people.

    In fact, what I’d like to see is Trump and the US government and military demanding every person responsible for the attack on the USS Liberty, be extradited to the US post haste. And failing that…

    • Agree: The scalpel
    • Replies: @Miro23
  319. @MarkinLA

    The US made a simple demand that was non-negotiable – leave China.

    Simple demand or not, non negotiable or not, explain why you think it was a reasonable demand. Try demanding something from me, for instance, or vice versa. Make your demand non-negotiable while you’re at it. Maybe that in itself was problematic, and who determines that?

    The US did not attack Japan they simply refused to trade with them.

    Prove that they simply refused to trade. FYI, you’ll need to show that they did nothing else that was provocative, and that attacking is the only valid provocation.

    Whether something is simple or not simply does not constitute a valid argument.

  320. Deschutes says:
    @Harold Smith

    Like Jacques Sheete points out, you don’t actually need a hot war going on continually; rather you need the threat of war. And this is exactly what I meant in my original post when I said the Cold War with the USSR was the perfect gift to the military industrial complex in USA.

    If you don’t know what the military industrial complex is, that’s your homework. You can act as if it doesn’t exist, but rest assured it does. Even Eisenhauer warned about its massive power and corrupting influence in his farewell speech as president.

    The military industrial complex by definition is all of the USA’s military branches, or departments (army, navy, CIA, marines, pentagon, DOD, etc) and the major defense corporations that provide all the weapons materiel for war. And the nuclear weapons, and the private corporations that provide that service. The revolving door between the government’s military, governmental and the private defense corporations is a very important part of the military industrial complex: generals leave their post and then work for Lockheed Martin or Boeing…then get a top level post in a president’s cabinet, etc. This massive collective ‘club’ works together to not only assure its existence, but obviously to keep it growing by leaps and bounds. Just look at the current levels of defense spending. It is out of control and nobody can stop it. You could also call this the ‘deep state’: in truth, the ‘deep state’ controls the US government and directs all foreign policy and decides when to wage war or not–certainly not the president, who is little more than window dressing.

    Yep, we’re in very deep shit in other words 🙁

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  321. @MarkinLA

    Believe I read China controls 90% of world’s rare earth minerals
    (though I could be mistaken).
    Heck of a lot of leverage.
    F-35s and other defense (pseudo-) products have a huge component of rare earths.

    ‘Murkan military has two Achilles heels:
    One is rare earths.
    The other is the exposure of large launch platforms (carriers and land bases like Diego Garcia) to fast, long-range missile attack.
    Achilles was taken down by one arrow. In combat with Russia or China he would be hit with at least twenty.

    When a gun-fighter thinks he rules Dodge City,
    the adage comes to mind, “There’s always somebody faster.”

    • Replies: @turtle
  322. RobinG says:

    Rare earth minerals are not really rare, but they exist finely distributed. The US had its own processing plants, which closed when China offered lower prices. Just part of off-shoring manufacturing.

    Along with jobs, the US off-shored much of its pollution. Refining rare earths produces significant wastes. China now has internal pressure to clean up, resulting in higher prices or unavailability. They’ve also stopped accepting foreign waste for recycling, totally cramping the style of US environmentalists. (At the same time, “improvements” in US packaging have made plastics much more difficult to recycle. Huge piles are accumulating with no destination.)

    You don’t need a faster gun-slinger if you shoot yourself in the foot.

    ** Here’s a socialist/capitalist question for you. If “defense… products have a huge component of rare earths,” should they be deemed essential to national security? Should mining and processing be undertaken by the federal government?

    • Replies: @turtle
  323. turtle says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    U.S. was once world’s largest supplier of rare earths.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Pass_rare_earth_mine

    The processing plant was in full production on June 25, 2015, when Molycorp filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy with outstanding bonds in the amount of $US 1.4 billion. The company’s shares were removed from the NYSE.

    In August 2015, it was reported that the mine was to be shut down.

    On August 31, 2016, Molycorp Inc. emerged from bankruptcy as Neo Performance Materials, leaving behind the mine as Molycorp Minerals LLC in its own separate Chapter 11 bankruptcy. As of January 2016, its shares were traded OTC under the symbol MCPIQ.

    Affiliates of two U.S. investment fund advisors, JHL Capital Group LLC and QVT Financial LP and Shenghe Resources Holding Co., a Chinese minority shareholder, acquired Mountain Pass in July 2017 with the goal of reviving America’s rare earth industry.[10] The venture does business under the name MP Materials (www.mpmaterials.com).[11] MP Materials resumed mining and refining operations in January 2018.[12]

  324. turtle says:
    @RobinG

    Should mining and processing be undertaken by the federal government?

    For comparison, U.S. Gov’t historically had no involvement in uranium mining, only isotopic enrichment for weapons purposes.
    Various private companies (Kerr-McGee, et. al.) owned & operated the mines.
    Generally speaking, they had a poor environmental record.*
    Not that the U.S. Gov’t was any better…

    *gross understatement

  325. @Deschutes

    “Like Jacques Sheete points out, you don’t actually need a hot war going on continually; rather you need the threat of war. And this is exactly what I meant in my original post when I said the Cold War with the USSR was the perfect gift to the military industrial complex in USA.”

    In your earlier comment, you said:

    “A country like the USA which bases its economy on a military-capitalist economy always, always needs new wars for the military-industrial-complex.”

    This statement implies “kinetic” wars, i.e. hot wars, IMO, and this is the statement to which I responded. Moreover, you seem to be implying that the “military-industrial-complex” is driving policy; that it is an end in itself, and this is not true, IMO.

    “If you don’t know what the military industrial complex is, that’s your homework.”

    It’s an ambiguous phrase that means different things to different people. For example, as I just pointed out, you seem to think it’s an entity that’s making foreign policy, whereas I don’t. Of course it benefits from the empire’s wars, but so do funeral homes, but that doesn’t mean that greedy funeral homes are driving policy.

    “You can act as if it doesn’t exist, but rest assured it does.”

    I implied that “it” is undefined. Generally speaking, before we debate whether something exists or not, we have to define exactly what it is we’re talking about, right? I would agree that a corrupt institution comprised of arms manufacturers and lobbyists has grown up to serve the armament needs of the evil empire, but this institution is parasitic in nature and is an enabler of imperial treachery not a driver of it.

    “Even Eisenhauer warned about its massive power and corrupting influence in his farewell speech as president.”

    I suspect that Eisenhower used the phrase in a euphemistic sense, just like many people do today, e.g. Paul Craig Roberts.

  326. @Patrikios Stetsonis

    In the immortal words of Bill Paxton’s Private Hudson from “Aliens”:

    “Fuckin’ a!”

  327. Miro23 says:
    @Rurik

    In fact, what I’d like to see is Trump and the US government and military demanding every person responsible for the attack on the USS Liberty, be extradited to the US post haste. And failing that…

    Hello President Trump. Then round up everyone connected with 9/11, put them on trial for murder and treason, and get them talking.

    • Agree: Rurik
  328. Sparkon says:
    @The scalpel

    According to everything I can find, the Boeing P-8 has a normal crew complement of nine, two pilots and seven mission specialists. Do you have information showing that the P-8 can carry and deliver “special forces” while it is airborne?

    While there may be room aboard the P-8 for additional personnel, I see no way for “special forces” to egress or eject from the airplane during flight as it is normally configured.

    I gather events surrounding the shoot down of the drone by the Iranians are being obscured by some bull dust being thrown up by both sides.

  329. Malla says:
    @anonymous

    There was nothing to squeeze out of India, India had been a loss making colony for a very long time.

  330. Malla says:
    @MarkinLA

    The embargo was because Japan continued to occupy part of China.

    Japan had good reasons to keep troops in China.

    PEARL HARBOR: ROOSEVELT’S 9/11

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Anon
  331. MarkinLA says:
    @Malla

    Japan had good reasons to keep troops in China.

    Uh no. This is old hat. Yes, we broke the Japanese code. Yes, the commanders on Hawaii were kept in the dark. Yes, the US moved the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor. Blah, blah, blah.

    However, this kook comparing it to a false flag attack is where I stopped listening. Did FDR want the US in the war – yes. However, if the US embargo on Japan was a trap, then it was Japan who willingly stepped into it. Who’s to blame the guy setting the trap or the guy stepping into it when he knows he doesn’t have an effective counter to it?

    The US could not expect Hister to declare war even though the US was also goading Hitler by providing Lend-Lease and distroyer escorts on the west side of the Atlanic to help Britain. The German code was not broken like the Japanese so they had no way to know. If Hitler doesn’t declare war, it would have actually hurt Britain’s war effort since all US military production would have been naval oriented to more quickly destroy the Imperial Navy.

    Japan was a naval power and this is where their military strength ended. Troops anywhere other than the home islands were more a drain on Japan than anything else. By western standards their army was poorly equiped. IF Japan had conquered all of east Asia they would have had the necessary raw materials to maintain their empire. However, until that was completed, their far flung outposts contributed next to nothing to the empire. That was the dilemma they were in. They simply didn’t have the military strength to take Asia fast enough for it to help the empire.

    The majority of the people in the US did not want to enter the war. Without Pearl Harbor there was no political will to enter. The people were pretty confident that the US Navy could keep the war from ever touching the US.

    • Replies: @Malla
  332. Anon[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Could you write a post about Satanic cults, pedophilia, and Hollywood?

    • Replies: @Malla
  333. Malla says:
    @MarkinLA

    However, this kook comparing it to a false flag attack is where I stopped listening.

    That was your mistake.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  334. Malla says:
    @Anon

    Sorry for the late response, bud. I do not know how to answer this but I can only write a brief one. If you want to know more about the above topics, J Dyer’s videos could give you a lot of information on this. Search him up on youtube.
    What I know is that pedophilia is rife among elites (check out about the Epstein island frequented by Bill Clinton) . And it also seems that Haiti is one of the big suppliers of kids for these purposes. One White woman aid worker in Haiti who was tried to expose this was killed.
    It is likely pedophilia as well as sacrifice of children is connected to Satanic rituals of the elites and pedophilia is also used to blackmail powerful people. I mean tempt some powerful guy or spike his drink and get him into a pedophilia act and then take pics/videos and then you can blackmail him for life. He would do everything your group wants him to do. This seems to be very common in intelligence circles. Blackmail is the most common tool used in intelligence. Not everything is James Bond you know.
    And so I would not be surprised if Hollywood execs and big producers are into these things. Also Hollywood is a the propaganda/ brainwashing arm of the elites.
    It seems the US military had a church of Satan (Temple of Set) pastor!!! Some Micheal Aquino guy.

    This is all I can give right now in brief.

  335. MarkinLA says:
    @Malla

    It’s never a mistake to refuse to listen to a kook.

  336. It’s really hard being Israel’s [email protected] Donald’s knees are aching and Hannity’s @sshole is sore.
    When will America get this Zionist monkey off it’s back, get off its knees, stand up like a man and demand that Israel go do its’ own killing?
    If Israel wants greater Israel then it should do it the old fashioned way: war. Stop trying to use others to fight your battles.
    Now it makes sense to me that Israel is a major human trafficking hub. They have absolutely no regard for any rules or morals. It’s all about getting more money for their insane demands and that means ‘greasing’ Congress and the Senate and, sadly, the Donald. I am firmly convinced that Trump is a closet chicken Hawk who will betray America in his second term and attack Iran. He has [email protected] on the brain and just can’t stop [email protected] Israeli schlong. What a disgusting ‘man’!

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