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Introduction: first, several friends recently suggested that that I should interview Professor Seyed Mohammad Marandi; then I read this most interesting text on Moon of Alabama and I decided to ask Professor Marandi to share his views of the current situation in Iran, the Persian Gulf the rest of the Middle-East who very kindly agreed to reply to my question in spite of his most hectic and busy schedule. I am most grateful to Prof. Marandi for his time and replies. Crucially, Prof. Marandi debunks the silly notion that Russia and Israel are allies or working together. He also debunks that other canard about Russia and Iran having some major differences over Syria. Prof. Marandi, who is currently in Iran, is superbly connected and informed, and I hope that with this interview some of the more outlandish rumors which were recently circulated will finally be seen for what they are: utter, total, nonsense. Enjoy the interview!

The Saker: It is often said that there is an “axis of resistance” which comprises Syrian, Hezbollah, Iran, Russia and China. Sometimes, Venezuela, Cuba or the DPRK are added to this list. Do you believe that there is such an “axis of resistance” and, if yes, how would you characterize the nature of this informal alliance? Do you think that this informal alliance can ever grow into a formal political or military alliance or a collective security treaty?

Professor Marandi: I definitely believe there is an Axis of Resistance that currently includes Iran, Syria, Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon, parts of Afghanistan, and Yemen. I do not think that we can include the DPRK in any way or form. I believe that Russia could be considered to a certain degree as aligned or affiliated to this resistance, but that this is not something many would feel the need to acknowledge. At certain levels, there is a lot of overlap between Russian and Chinese policy and the policies of the countries and movements in this region that are affiliated to this Axis of Resistance. The same is true with countries such as Venezuela, Bolivia, and Cuba, which I do not consider to be similar to North Korea at all. Just as almost everywhere else, American policy in the Korean Peninsula is ugly, hegemonic and malevolence, but the nature of the DPRK government is fundamentally different from that of Venezuela or Cuba, whether the Americans or Europeans like to acknowledge that or not. Others can interpret the Axis of Resistance to include or exclude certain countries, but it is pretty clear that Iran and Russia have similar policy objectives when it comes to certain key issues. Nevertheless, Russia has a close relationship with the Israeli regime whereas Iran considers it to be an apartheid state, almost identical to that of apartheid South Africa. Or for example the Syrian government position regarding Israel is different from that of Iran’s. The official Syrian position is that the West Bank and Gaza Strip must be returned to the Palestinians, in accordance with UN Security Council resolutions, and that the occupied Golan Heights have to be handed back to the Syrian people, which are legitimate demands. But the Iranian position is different, Iran firmly believes that Israel is a colonial and apartheid regime and that it is morally unacceptable for it to exist in its present form. Therefore, at least officially, there are substantial differences. So people can interpret the Axis of Resistance in different ways. It is important to keep in mind that despite Syria, Iran, Turkey and Qatar are also moving closer together partially thanks to US, Saudi, and UAE hostility towards the Muslim Brotherhood. What is important is that there is a growing consensus about key issues in this region and what the major problems are, and I think that as time goes on this loose alliance of countries and movements is growing more influential and more powerful. I cannot say whether there will be a formal or open collective security treaty or military alliance created by any of these countries in the near or foreseeable future and I do not see such a necessity. However, I think this convergence of ideas is very important and I think that the formal and informal links that exist between these countries is in many ways more important and more significant than formal political or military alliances or security treaties.

The Saker: In recent months a number of observers have stated that Russia and Israel are working hand in hand and some have gone as far as to say that Putin is basically a pawn of Netanyahu and that Russia is loyal to Israel and Zionists interests. Do you agree with this point of view? How do Iranian officials view the Russian contacts with the Israelis, does that worry them or do they believe that these contacts can be beneficial for the future of the region?

ORDER IT NOW

Professor Marandi: That is nonsense. The US and Israeli regimes are culturally and ideologically bound to one another, whereas the Americans have a deep antipathy towards Russia. That is why the Russians have a very different position on Syria than do the Americans and Israelis. The Israelis alongside the US, the EU, the Saudis, and some of Syria’s neighboring countries, supported ISIS, Al Qaeda, and other extremist entities and attempted to tear Syria apart. As explained earlier, the Russian view of Israel is different from Iran. There are many Russian Jewish immigrants in Israel and they constitute a large segment of the colonists in Palestine and they are largely utilized for the further subjugation of the Palestinian people and ethnic cleansing. Generally speaking, Russian interests are in sharp conflict with those of the United States, Israel’s strongest ally. In addition, Russia’s close relationship with Syria dates back to the cold war and the relentless US pressure on China and Russia has also acted as a strong catalyst to quicken their convergence with one another as well as with Iran on key issues. The Chinese and Russians know quite well that the United States, the Europeans, and regional countries have extensively used extremists in Syria to undermine the state and that those forces could later be used to undermine security in Central Asia, Russia, and China. A large number of Russian, Chinese, and Central Asians have been trained to fight in Syria, and this is a major threat to their collective security. The United States could use these and other extremists in an attempt to impede the potential success of the Belt and Road Initiative or other plans for Asian integration. Thus, there is a sharp and growing conflict between the Russians and the Americans.

The Israeli regime constantly tells the Russians and the Chinese that they are the gateway to Washington and that if they maintain strong ties with Israel, the Israelis can help them solve their problems with the United States. I do not think there is much truth to that, because this growing conflict is about the fate of US global dominance and there is nothing the Israelis can do to change that. Nevertheless, this has been used as an incentive for the Russians and the Chinese to maintain better relations with the Israeli regime.

In any case, Russia does not have to maintain identical views with Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Lebanon, Iraq, or Yemen. Differences exist, but strong relationships exist nevertheless. All of these countries recognize that if the Americans are able to undermine any of them, whether it is Syria, Iran, Russia, or China, then that would only encourage the United States to be more aggressive towards the remaining countries that impede US foreign policy objectives or exist as potential rivals whether regionally or globally. So even though their political structures are different, even though their foreign policies are different, the similarities that exist are quite striking as well as the common threats. Again, to a large degree this coalition is a result of US and Western foreign policy, which has strong undercurrents of Eurocentricism, tribalism, and racism.

Not only has this pressure brought these countries and movements closer to one another, but it has also created a deeper understanding among them. The Russians understand Iran better today than they did 5 years ago, partially as a result of their cooperation in Syria. This greater understanding enhances the relationship, and helps to dispel many of the misunderstandings or myths that may exist about one another due to Eurocentric narratives and orientalism.

Hence, Iran is not concerned about Russian-Israeli relation. Obviously, in an ideal world Iran would like Russia to break relations with the Israeli regime for its apartheid nature. But reality is reality, and Iranian relations with Russia are very good and at times I am sure the Iranians send certain warnings to the Israelis through the Russians.

The Saker: How is Russia viewed in Iran? Are most Iranian still suspicious of Russia or do they believe that they have a viable and honest partner in Russia? What are the main reservations/concerns of patriotic Iranians when they think of Russia?

Professor Marandi: Historically, the Iranians have had serious problems with the Russians. The Russians and the Soviet Union interfered extensively in Iranian internal affairs and they undermined Iran’s sovereignty. But ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union the image of Russia has changed. Especially since Russia began fighting alongside Iran in Syria in 2015, Russia’s image has improved significantly. When we look at polls, Russia’s image is pretty good compared to Western countries.

Western governments own or fund dozens of Persian language media outlets These outlets, such as VOA and BBC Persian among others, are constantly spouting anti-Russian propaganda. Obviously they have an impact and that couples with historical Iranian concerns about Russia, but despite all that, the Russian image is relatively favorable and that says a lot.

The Saker: How about Turkey? Iran and Turkey have had a complex relationship in the past, yet in the case of the AngloZionist war against Syria, the two states have worked together (and with Russia) – does that mean that Turkey is seen as a viable and honest partner in Iran?

Professor Marandi: Iran’s relationship with the Turkish government is complicated, especially, because of the constant policy changes that have occurred IN TURKEY over the past few years. This has made the government seem unreliable in the eyes of many. Having said that, Turkey is very different from Wahhabi influenced regimes in the Arabian Peninsula. Turkish Islamic tradition has striking similarities with Iran’s Islamic culture and because of its strong Sufi tradition, Turkey is much closer to Iran than it is to, for example,Wahhabi Saudi Arabia.

The global Wahhabi menace has grown as a result of Saudi financial support, as well as the support of other countries in the Persian Gulf region. Turkish society has been more resistant, although ever since the military conflict in Syria and due to extensive funding from the Persian Gulf, there has been growing concern about growing sectarianism in Turkey, not unlike what happened in Pakistan in the 1980s.

Ironically, before the conflict in Syria President Erdogan had a closer personal relationship with President Assad than did the Iranians. They and their families would spend vacations together.

In any case, Turkey has a very strong economic, political, and cultural relationship with Iran, and some of the rising anti-Shia and takfiri sentiments that have been on the rise in Turkey were stunted by the Saudi and Emirati support for the attempted coup in Turkey. Subsequently, their open antagonism towards the Muslim Brotherhood and Qatar, their support for the coup in Egypt, their policies in Sudan and Libya, and of course the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, have all had a beneficial impact on Iranian-Turkish relations. As a result, Turkey has grown much more distant from Iran’s regional antagonists, while Turkish support for the Palestinian cause is another element that brings Iran and Turkey closer together. American support for PKK terrorists in Syria has also angered the Turks adding push to Turkish-Iranian convergence. Even Turkish policy towards Syria is evolving, although it is impossible for the government to make a radical change, because of years of attempts at regime change.

The Saker: Next, turning to Iraq, how would you characterize the “balance of influence” of Iran and the USA in Iraq? Should we view the Iraqi government as allied to Iran, allied to the USA or independent? If the Empire attacks Iran, what will happen in Iraq?

Professor Marandi: The relationship between Iraq and Iran is significantly more important than the relationship between Iraq and the United States. Iran and Iraq are allies, but this alliance does not contradict the notion of Iraqi independence. Iraq’s regional policy is not identical to Iran’s. But the two countries have very similar interests, a very close relationship, many Iraqi leaders have spent years in Iran, and the bulk of the Iraqi population lives close to the shared border of over 1,200 km between the two countries. So trade, pilgrimage, and tourism are key to both countries. The religious similarities and the holy sites that exist in Iran and Iraq are a huge incentive for interaction between the two countries. There are many Iraqi students studying in Iran and many Iranian’s working in Iraq. The fact that Iranians made many sacrifices when fighting ISIS in Iraq and many Iraqis were martyred in the war against ISIS and Al Qaeda in Syria is a strong indication of where things stand despite US pressure.

The Arba’een pilgrimage that takes place every year where millions of Iranians and Iraqis make the walk towards Karbala, side by side, with tens of thousands of Iraqi and Iranian volunteers helping pilgrims along the way is, I think, a further sign of the close relationship.

While the U.S presence in Iraq continues to be hegemonic, Iran has not sought to prevent Iraq from having normal relationships with other countries. However, the U.S continues to seek control over Iraq through the world’s largest embassy, its military presence, and its influence over the bureaucracy. The United States continues to have much say over how the country’s oil wealth is spent.

Still, despite the US colonial behavior, its continued theft of Iraqi oil wealth, and its thuggish behavior, the Iraqis have been able to assert a great deal of independence. In the long run, this continued US behavior is only going to create further resentment among Iraqis. The empire rarely takes these realities into account, they seek to accumulate influence and wealth through brute force, but in the long term it creates deep-rooted anger and hostility which, at some point, will create great problems for the empire, especially as this anger and unrest is growing across the region, if not across the globe.

It is highly unlikely that the regime in Washington will attack Iran, if it does it will bring about a regional war, which will drive the United States out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Syria. Saudi Arabia and the Emirates would, swiftly collapse and the price of oil and natural gas would go through the roof, leading to a global economic meltdown even as millions of people will be streaming towards Europe.

The Saker: It is often said that Russia and Iran have fundamentally different goals in Syria and that the two countries regularly have tensions flaring up between them because of these disagreements. Is that true?In your opinion, how are Russian and Iranian goals in Syria different?

Professor Marandi: The news that we sometimes hear about serious tensions existing between the Iranians and the Russians in Syria is often nonsense. There are clear reasons for people to exaggerate small incidents or to fabricate them altogether, but the relationship is quite good. Iran does not intend to have any military bases in Syria, whereas the Russians do feel the need to preserve their military presence in Syria through long-term agreements.

But ultimately, Iran would like to help enable Syria to acquire the military capability to retake the occupied Golan Heights. Iran does not intend to initiate any conflict with the Israeli regime inside Palestine. That is not an objective in Lebanon and that is not an objective in Syria. As in Lebanon, where the Iranians supported Hezbollah to restore the country’s sovereignty and to drive out the Israeli aggressors and occupiers, the Iranians have the same agenda in Syria. They want to support the Syrians so that they will be able to restore full sovereignty. I don’t believe the Golan Heights is a priority for the Russians.

The Saker: For a while, Iran let the Russian Aerospace Forces use an Iranian military airfield, then when this became public knowledge, the Russians were asked to leave. I have heard rumors that while the IRGC was in favor of allowing Russian Aerospace Forces to use an Iranian military airfield, the regular armed forces were opposed to this. Is it true that there are such differences between the IRGC and the regular armed forces and do you think that Iran will ever allow the Russian military to have a permanent presence in Iran?

ORDER IT NOW

Professor Marandi: That is a myth. The Russians were not asked to leave. There were no differences between the IRGC and any other part of the armed forces. This was a decision made by the Supreme National Security Council and the President and all the major commanders in the military were involved in this decision. Actually, the airbase does not belong to the guards it belongs to the air force and a part of the base was used for Russian strategic bombers that were flying to Syria to bomb the extremists. This cooperation ended when the Russians were able to station adequate numbers of aircraft in Syria, because the flights over Iran were long and expensive, whereas the air campaign launched from bases inside Syria was much less expensive and much more effective. Iran was very open about its relationship with the Russians, and openly permitted the Russians to fire missiles over Iranian airspace. There were those who were opposed to the Russian presence in the Iranian airbase. A small segment of Iranian society that is pro-Western and pro-American complained about it in their media outlets, but they had absolutely no impact on the decision-making process. According to polls, an overwhelming majority of Iranians supported Iran’s activities in Syria, and the Supreme National Security Council was under no pressure to its decision. However, Iran does not plan to allow any country to have permanent bases in the country and that is in accordance with the constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The revolution in Iran was about independence, dignity, sovereignty and indigenous values, and the removal of American hegemony over Iran was very much a part of that. The Iranians will not give any basis to foreign powers in future, and neither the Russians nor the Chinese have ever made such requests. There are absolutely no differences regarding Iran’s regional policies between the IRGC and the rest of the military, both were a part of the decision-making process when the Russians were allowed to fire missiles over Iranian territory and both were part of the process in allowing Russian aircraft to use Iranian airspace. The Russian bombers were providing air support for Iranian troops and Iranian affiliated troops on the ground.

The Saker: Both Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Hezbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah have made repeated statements that the days of the racist ZioApartheid regime in occupied are numbered. Do you agree with their point of view and, if yes, how do you see such a regime change actually happening? Which of the One State solution or a Two State solution do you believe to be more realistic?

Professor Marandi: I do not believe the two-state solution is possible because the Israeli regime has colonized too much of the West Bank. Actually, through acts of selfishness and petty short-term gain, the regime has damaged itself enormously. As a result of the colonization of the West Bank, even the European elites and diplomats who would privately admit that the Israeli regime pursues apartheid policies and who would always speak of hope for a two-state solution, admit that the two state solution is dead. All Palestinians are treated as sub humans, whether they reside in the West Bank or not. They are a subjugated nation, whether they are Israeli citizens or not. However, there is no longer any hope that those who live in the occupied West Bank will gain freedom, even though we predicted the Israelis would never voluntarily relinquish the West bank. This is the most important challenge that the regime faces in the future. By colonizing the West Bank and despite official western media and government narratives, it is increasingly seen by the international community as the apartheid regime that it is. It is delegitimizing itself in the eyes of larger numbers of people.

In addition to that, it can no longer behave with impunity. The 2006 war in Lebanon where the Israeli armed forces were defeated by Hizbullah was a turning point. Before then, the Israelis had created an image that they were invincible. But now even in Gaza, they are unable to carry out their objectives when they periodically attack the territory and its civilians. The Israelis are now more easily contained especially since the Syrian government has been able to restore order and expel ISIS and al-Qaeda from areas neighboring Israeli forces on the occupied Golan Heights, despite the Israelis supporting the extremists. The Israelis have been contained regionally, at home they are increasingly seen as an apartheid regime. Its regional allies are also on the decline and regionally. Saudi Arabia and the UAE are the only countries that can be considered as effective allies and they are facing a potential terminal decline. Therefore, regionally the regime is becoming more isolated. I do not believe that under such circumstances, the Israeli regime can last for very long. Just as the apartheid regime in South Africa collapsed under the burden of its own immoral existence, the Israeli regime will not last. There will be no two-state solution, the only realistic and moral solution is for Palestine to be united and for the indigenous population to have its rights restored, whether they are Palestinians, Jews or Christians or anyone else who is indigenous to the land.

The Saker: Iran is an Islamic Republic. It is also a majority Shia country. Some observers accuse Iran of wanting to export its political model to other countries. What do you make of that accusation? Do Iranian Islamic scholars believe that the Iranian Islamic Republic model can be exported to other countries, including Sunni countries?

Professor Marandi: I do not think that there is any validity to that accusation. Iran has a very excellent relationship with Iraq, but it has not imposed its model on the country. In fact, Iran helped create the current constitution of that country. The same is true for Lebanon and Yemen. Iran is constantly accused by its antagonists, but in the most inconsistent ways. Elsewhere they claim that Iran is afraid of their model being exported because they are fearful of rivals. Iran has always been attacked from all sides often using self-contradictory arguments. On the one hand, the so-called regime is allegedly immensely unpopular, it is corrupt, it is falling apart, and it is incapable of proper governance. Yet on the other hand, Iran is a growing threat to the region and even the world. This is paradoxical, how can Iran be incompetent and collapsing on the one hand, yet a growing threat to the whole world on the other hand? This simply does not make sense. Nevertheless, I have seen no evidence that Iran has tried to impose its model on other countries or on movements that are close to it. If it was not for Iran’s support, ISIS and al-Qaeda would have overthrown Syria with its secular government and secular constitution. Iranians firmly believed that the terrorist forces supported by Western intelligence services as well as regional regimes were the worst case scenario for the Syrian people. Did they impose their model?

The Saker: thank you for all your answers!

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Iran, Israel, Middle East, Russia 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    Prof. Marandi debunks the silly notion that Russia and Israel are allies or working together. He also debunks that other canard about Russia and Iran having some major differences over Syria. Prof. Marandi, who is currently in Iran, is superbly connected and informed, and I hope that with this interview some of the more outlandish rumors which were recently circulated will finally be seen for what they are: utter, total, nonsense.

    O.K.

  2. Unz Review at its best. You will truly never see this perspective in the MSM. Great read and great man.

    • Replies: @alexander
  3. alexander says:
    @Thulean Friend

    I agree,

    This was a very informative interview.

    There is one comment made by Dr. Marandi which is not accurate.

    The “establishment elite” within the United States, have great “antipathy” towards Russia.

    The American People do NOT.

    The American people had antipathy toward the Soviet Union, because we thought it was a communist empire ….not a freedom loving democracy.

    Today,the American people have much more antipathy toward their own establishment elite, for lying us into war and bankrupting the country, than they do towards Russia.

    90% of Americans think our media are big liars, and our government is run by corrupt warmongers.

    We do everything we can to vote in a President who promises Peace, but we always get more war …..and more debt.

    Nobody likes it.

  4. I never understood US’s stupid tries to divide Iran & Iraq. Could China ever divide US & Canada?

    Those 2 countries’ relationship is as old as history.

    Both Baghdad (Garden of God/Eden) and Iraq (The Plains) are Farsi words.

  5. Actions to ‘impede the potential success of the Belt and Road Initiative or other plans for Asian integration’ will bring Washington into direct conflict with China and Russia – thus world war.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  6. FB says: • Website

    Prof Marandi says…

    Historically, the Iranians have had serious problems with the Russians. The Russians and the Soviet Union interfered extensively in Iranian internal affairs and they undermined Iran’s sovereignty.

    Really…?

    I and many others would be interested to know of these instances of Russian ‘hostility’ towards Iran…

    But Saker doesn’t follow up on this in his clearly deferential interview…

    Surely one of those Iranian ‘grievances’ could not have anything to do with the JCPOA which came about as a result of Russian diplomacy…not to mention Russian guarantees about nuclear fuel, which Russia committed to handle…and the Russian-built nuclear power plant in Iran…

    And as soon as those western sanctions were lifted, thanks mainly to Russia pushing through UNSC Resolution 2231, Iran ‘remembered’ its Russian friends by ordering 200 civil aircraft from Boeing and Airbus…while its aviation press continuously badmouthed Russian aircraft…of course they placed not a single order for Russian civil aircraft…

    Now that the US has torn up the nuclear deal and sanctions are back on, Iran will never get those western aircraft…nice bit of karma there…

    But let’s review some more history…Project Dark Gene…

    …was an aerial reconnaissance program run by the Central Intelligence Agency and the Imperial Iranian Air Force from bases inside Iran, against the Soviet Union.

    There were dozens of aggressive and of course illegal incursions into Soviet airspace by US built Iranian jets, manned jointly by Iranian and USAF pilots…a total of six aircraft were downed by the Soviets…

    The most famous incident occurred in November 1973, when a MiG 21 downed a McDonnell RF4 by ramming it…after his aircraft cannon jammed…

    USAF colonel John Saunders and IIAF Major Shokhouhnia were captured…the pilot of the MiG, Captain Gennadi N Eliseev died in the crash, and was posthumously awarded the nation’s highest distinction, Hero of the Soviet Union…

    Then in the 1990s, the Islamic Republic of Iran supplied huge amounts of armaments to the Bosnian Muslims…in direct contravention of the UNSC ban on weapons to the warring factions in Yugoslavia…

    Now Saker has made a very big deal on his website about how the Yugoslav wars changed his life…this is all on his biographical info…he was forced out of his job as some kind of ‘analyst’ for a Swiss national security agency because he ‘defended’ the Serbs…and he still often makes noises about his ‘love’ of the Serbs…

    Curiously…he did not bring up the subject of Iran’s illegal involvement in the Yugoslav wars with prof Marandi…which says to me that Saker talks a good talk, but has not yet learned how to walk the walk…

    Again…I and many others would be interested to hear Marandi’s take on Iran’s support of the Bosnian Mujahedin…but we certainly won’t see these kinds of questions posed by the fawning Saker…

    Then we go to Marandi’s weasel words about Iranian public opinion towards Russia, which is in fact strongly hostile…in both the nomenklatura and the public at large…

    Marandi would have us believe that there is only a ‘little bit’ of anti Russian sentiment in Iran…and even that is due mostly to American propaganda…LOL

    And then there is the question of regional politics…Israel, Syria, Iraq etc…

    Here again we can see Marandi’s lack of credibility…he mentions Russian Jews in Israel as ‘colonialists’ supposedly displacing Palestinians in the West Bank…this is factually absurd…Russian Jews are almost entirely absent from the settler community…they stick together for the most part in their own enclaves in Israel proper…and are in fact the subject of not insignificant discrimination from certain sectors of Israeli society…

    Again…the ‘analyst’ Saker simply takes Marandi’s horseshit at face value…

    And then there is Marandi’s statement that Iran and Russia have basically irreconcilable positions on Israel…Iran views the Israeli regime as illegitimate…fair enough…

    But he also goes on to say that Russia’s position, which is in strict accordance with INTERNATIONAL LAW recognizes that Israel need only withdraw from the occupied territories…

    So let’s do some REAL ANALYSIS here…his words mean that Israel cannot exist in its present form…ergo, a regime change [or worse] is required…

    How is this different from the US predilection for regime change of countries it does not like…?

    Not to mention that this policy of open hostility towards Israel lends credence to US accusations against Iran, even those coming from neocon quarters…

    At best, it is stupid diplomacy to desire a country to be regime-changed…especially if that country happens to be the most loved country by the US…

    Then there is Syria…it is a fact that the Syrians are holding their nose with regard to the Iranians because they do need their help in what has been a nearly decade long existential struggle…

    It is a FACT that the SAA officer corps is quite rankled by the Iranians’ arrogance…public opinion among ordinary Syrians is not pro Iranian at all…

    Bottom line is that this so called ‘interview’ is complete fluff…Iran is a theocracy just like Israel…Saker is a religious fanatic who romanticizes the Shia sect of Islam…

    Iran certainly deserves the world’s sympathy and assistance because it is under an unprovoked attack…but at the same time, Iran’s religious extremism has brought a lot of this trouble down on their own heads…

    I mean if they still find fault and grievances with Russia, the one country that has done the most for them…then surely they are not fully rational…

    Like all religious fanatics, from Zionists to Evangelicals to Wahabbists…it is very difficult to deal with these people under the norms of modern diplomacy…they simply don’t care because religion trumps everything…

    Iran has been on the sidelines of the SCO [Shanghai Cooperation Organization], arguably the world’s most important political grouping, with core members China and Russia, and including India and Pakistan…

    But Iran will never be permitted to step up to full membership until it gives up its extremist politics for REALPOLITIK…

    Even Turkey will be given membership before Iran, and deservedly so…

    And lastly, I will just note Saker’s ridiculous fawning about Marandi giving him his precious ‘time’ for this ‘interview’…

    Come on man…what’s with the groveling…this guy appears on every mickey mouse ‘program’ imaginable…that’s what he does…spread the Iranian ‘gospel’…very unprofessional to be so deferential in a supposedly journalistic interview…

  7. Jazman says:

    You are right especially part during war in Bosnia . Iran was number one weapon supplier to Bosnian Muslims and their Vevak was so active. Under US pressure they left Bosnia during post war time but present Muslim president Bakir Izetbegovic still holds very important ties with Iran

  8. peterAUS says:

    Iran was number one weapon supplier to Bosnian Muslims and their Vevak was so active.

    Yep.

    Under US pressure they left Bosnia during post war time but present Muslim president Bakir Izetbegovic still holds very important ties with Iran.

    Are you sure they left Bosnia? Some people (I tend to trust) believe there is still a rather strong presence in the Croat-Muslim part of the thing. Muslim part of that part, naturally.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  9. @peterAUS

    That was the intro, and Professor Marandi does exactly that.

  10. @FB

    Did you even read the entire thing or just go off half cocked on your initial misunderstanding? The references of problems referred to the Soviet Union and who needs examples? They certainly did interfere. Professor Marandi clearly says things have been much better since then. The historical concerns are real, and unlike Americans Iranians have longer memories than a week. it is also pointed out that there is constant propaganda by all the Western backed Persian language media against Russia and despite which Russia is seen in increasingly high regard.

    Your entire long and hysterical screed is totally out of order since there is no suggestion that these grievances are anything but historical. However Russia and Iran have had a relationship for hundreds of years and it has been frought with problems as well as blessed by much co-operation as well. It didn’t all happen in the last twenty five years. There was trouble between them during the Safavid Empire, Qajar Persia–Russian Empire and Soveit times. How do you think Azaerbaijan got split from Iran? Thanks to USSR.

    • Replies: @FB
  11. Rod T says:

    Excellent interview and very informative. Would Prof. Marandi ever be allowed to express such views in the corporate media? Of course not. The discourse is too tightly controlled. But by silencing him and other key scholars, they are closing their eyes to reality and that will ultimately come back to haunt them.

    • Replies: @Monty Ahwazi
  12. @alexander

    I have to disagree with your projection of what are evidently your own moderate and informed views onto your countrymen. According to all polls I have seen Americans as a majority now view Russia unfavorably and that number is rising. Don’t over estimate the intelligence or perspicacity of Americans as a people.

    At this time 73% of Americans view Russia unfavorably and 32% say it is the US greatest enemy.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/02/28/americans-views-of-russia-hit-record-lows-gallup-a64657

  13. jiri says:
    @someoneSomehwere

    Baghdad is from Old Persian meaning gift of God.

  14. syd.bgd says:
    @FB

    Well … I do not quite understand your motivation for so confused comment.

    First of all, it is always informative and interesting to hear such a condensed view on several important issues from Iranian side. There is certain level of propaganda here, of course, but Saker can’t help it. We’re not reading elementary school text, but a view from Teheran, after all. Reading between the lines and comparing to other sources, Russian and Israeli at least, is a must.

    From that perspective this interview is interesting both in what is presented and what was not.
    For example, Russia has duty to protect her citizens, and there are at least 1/2 million of them in Israel. Yes, passport holders, dual citizens. And that is bottom line only in that regard.
    Also, USSR was hardly pushed out of Iran after WW2, leaving network of Marxist cells all around the place.
    Let me finish this topic with simple geography: unlike USSR, Russia has Caspian sea border with Iran today, with Armenian/Azebaijan conflict to coordinate with Turkey.

    As a Serb I, naturally, hold some serious grievances about Iran role in Bosnia war. But I do not make theory starting from that. Iran joined the carnage for several reasons, and the most important was it’s own ideologic/religious basis. Other, they were supporting Sunni moslems, westernmost heirs of Ottoman empire. In Europe, by the way. What a slap on Saudi face!
    They have created their own intelligence network there, naturally, keeping their eye on wahabis/AQ then and now. They knew these fellows well from Afghanistan: who created this group, and why, in their traditional backyard.

    They were under sanctions then as they are now, but all of the sudden supplying eastern european arms through NATO naval blockade, Croatia or UN controlled airports, palces warming with guys like Saker himself. I do not think they’ve missed good chance to stash some more advanced toys than AK-47 from suppliers, Ukraine for example, given opportunities of acting as middlemen. Of course, making some nice dime along the way.

    From realist point of view, state of Iran played as it was expected: never miss a chance to muddy some waters supporting a moslem side or the other, someplace.
    Iranians are masters of asymmetric politics and warfare: nothing personal, Serbs.

    So please do not be emotional or malicious (Boeing deal, for example: you think that Iranian money frozen in US was released just like that, simply transferring vast billions on their account? It doesn’t work just like that.)

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @peterAUS
    , @Kiza
  15. EoinW says:
    @alexander

    Americans don’t hate Russians…I’m not so sure. But I’d question the opinions of all westerners when it comes to Russia. I’ve a friend who calls me a communist for supporting Russia. He’s Canadian. Do you really think political reality matters to 99% of the population? I suspect a lifetime of anti-Russian brainwashing will have more influence. One doesn’t grow out of that without thinking for oneself. So few westerners care enough to think for themselves when it comes to politics or foreign affairs. We are a society with the mental capacity of pre-schoolers. Just keep us entertained, nothing else matters. A populace of spoiled brats.

    I hope you’re right. Nevertheless, when the shooting starts and US soldiers start dying, I’m expecting just about every American to rally around the flag. This is what makes the USA so scary. Far more threatening to world peace than the Nazis ever were.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
  16. alexander says:
    @Rabbitnexus

    I would be inclined to agree with you , given the two year Russia-gate “brou ha ha” forced down the throats of Americans by our MSM .

    Unfortunately , this is the exact same media who lied us into the catastrophic Iraq War.

    So everybody and their uncle now views our major news outlets with great suspicion and sometimes even disdain.

    Who can blame them ?

    Independent polls which I have seen, indicated that only 5% of Americans ever believed Russia was responsible for installing Trump into the White House.

    Most Americans would much rather have a good, cordial relationship with the worlds other “super nuclear” power .

    They would prefer this 10 to 1 , as opposed to starting a new (uber-expensive) cold war, which will only add trillions to our already “over bloated” 23 trillion dollar national debt..and might end in a nuclear holocaust.

    It is more the manipulation by our “lie us into the Iraq war” media ,which is fanning the flames of “Russia hate” and “paranoia”, than any genuine antipathy coming from American citizens.

    The American people have no truck with Russia. It is not the Soviet Union anymore.We would all prefer good will between the two nations, than suffer a global nuclear winter.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  17. FB says: • Website
    @Rabbitnexus

    Rabbithead…

    Obviously you’re clinically retarded so I will keep this short…

    When exactly did Russia interfere in Iran…?…just saying so doesn’t make it so, unless you are retarded…which is the case here…

    Also it seems you can’t read he said BOTH Russia AND Soviets supposedly interfered in Iran…

    Also the Russians consider Serbs as their closest kin…everyone from Putin to the guy on the street will tell you that EVERYTHING CHANGED for Russia with the west’s war on Serbia…even the Faker supposedly found religion with this event…

    Even the west considers Serbs ‘little Russians’…which is why they were targeted in the 1990s…so Iran’s support of Muslim extremists in a war against Serbia is a big fucking deal to Russians…but since Faker is not anything that can be remotely described as ‘Russian’ [even his religious zealotry is highly uncommon among real Russians, who are not very religious] his take on Iran represents no one but his own ass…

    Please do not bother me with uninformed, substance free fluff…I consider every minute wasted on a moron to be regrettable…

  18. FB says: • Website

    @sydbgd…

    Reading your comment was a waste of time…as is often the case here…

    First you know nothing about FACTS…there are 1.5 million Russian speakers in Israel, nearly 20 percent of the population…not half a million…that tells me right there how knowledgeable you aren’t…

    Russia has an obligation to those people, which represent the second-biggest Russian diaspora in the world…many of these Israeli Russians aren’t even Jews and very few are actually religious…

    Yet this Marandi expresses openly a hostile policy towards Russians in Israel…how can Russia be okay with this…?

    Here is the bottom line…the accusations from the US about Iran being a ‘malign actor’ do have a kernel of truth…

    In Syria Iran is often doing whatever it wants, often going against the wishes of the government…for example settling Shia settlers in areas liberated by Iranian militias…this will only cause problems for Syria and the SECULAR Assad government down the line…

    In regards to Israel the official Iranian position is that Israel has no right to any land, not just the occupied territories…this is in DIRECT CONTRAVENTION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW…

    The Russian diplomacy, in tandem with China is working towards ONE PURPOSE…the restoration of international law and a real rules-based order…Iran is going directly against that…

    How can Russia and China demand that Israel withdraws from the occupied territories, as per a number of UNSC Resolutions [which btw is the FINAL WORD on international law, and LEGALLY BINDING on all UN member states]…when Iran likewise thumbs its nose at international law, just like Israel and the US…?

    Both China and Russia are frustrated with Iran…which is why they have been sitting in observer status in the SCO for a decade…

    These are the facts…

    Also I don’t appreciate being patronized with words like ’emotional’ and ‘malicious’ from an obvious know-nothing…

    Not to mention being lectured on ‘how things work’ by an obvious pea-brain…

    If you are really a Serb, which I seriously doubt…you are the dumbest South Slav I have ever encountered…both Croats and Serbs and South Slavs in general are very capable people with high vitality…

    You are obviously a shlump who makes noise without actually knowing anything…

    • Replies: @syd.bgd
    , @RadicalCenter
  19. peterAUS says:
    @syd.bgd

    As a Serb…………..

    From realist point of view, state of Iran played as it was expected: never miss a chance to muddy some waters supporting a moslem side or the other, someplace.
    Iranians are masters of asymmetric politics and warfare: nothing personal, Serbs.

    Hahahaha…….you Serb?! Really?!Hahaha…..”someplace”, “nothing personal” . Hahaha….oh my.

    C…….r…….a……….z……….y.

    A Serb who thinks and feels as you. Impressive.
    When I think nothing can surprise me anymore.

    Muchas gracias.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @syd.bgd
  20. peterAUS says:
    @syd.bgd

    Actually, I’d like to ask you for a favor. A small contribution to my efforts to unravel the secrets of human nature.

    Would you be so kind as to tell me a bit about yourself, PLEASE?

    I guess you are male and perhaps even living/visiting Australia (syd in the handle). I know some Serbs here.
    Age and education would be quite helpful.Industry/career too. Religious?

    Please.

    • Replies: @syd.bgd
  21. syd.bgd says:
    @FB

    Listen, FB

    you obviously think that any and all Russian speakers in Israel are, or are entitled to be, Russian passport holders. Ever been at the place, lived there? Are you going to teach me what is zarubeznaya in Israel and who is Russian citizen with regular papers in Israel? Yap, you’re dumb as one can possibly be. Let me explain, please.

    1. Passport holders vs other other Russian speakers. Jews from Ukraine, and only them, are just recently entitled to get Russian passport, i.e. citizenship. That’s legal stuff, not zarubeznaya framework which is predominantly cultural, not political, issue these days. Save ex-USSR lands. Dig it, dude?
    2. Zeev Jabotinsky, also Ariel Sharon’s father who was Zeev’s secretary (Sycamora ranch fire, probably you know what I’m talking about, provocateur), Shimon Peres are all, from your generalization that leads to nowhere, Russian Jews. (What an educated and informed person might conclude from Ariel Sharon’s press opp with V. V. Putin when he spoke Russian in Moscow? Why that kind of public diplomacy, then? ) Which passports these gentlemen would have been entitled to apply for these days? Ever heard about legal aspects of dissolution of USSR? I know that previously mentioned as well as Sharansky, Leberman etc are all the same for you, but it is not for grown up people to fund any analysis on. Think about it, too.
    3. Are adonim noted in point 2 Anglozionists according to Saker? I guess it is beyond of your capabilities to question, so help yourself with Wiki-something for a start, at least, while looking at lower right corner of your screen. Time, chronology, … really matters. We call it History.
    4. Be sure that I damn well know where Russian speakers live in IL. There is a certain measure of irony that it’s hard to find some, save street signs, Hebrew written or spoken in Petach Tikva, ain’t it, habibi?

    I’ll have to skip many of bullshit that you’ve spread around here to concentrate on two points. The first is SCO and Iran in that context. What Russia and China might get from dicking USA with full formal member status for Iran? You’ve read Petrushev’s public statement in Tel Aviv? Saker’s analysis (I do have some objections, by the way) might, or should be, enough for anyone who knows how to reasonably use elementary school globe model. Iran is already in, it is it’s lifeline these days. As the eldest of three empires in New Silk Road (BRI) scheme (ever heard about Escobar, not late cocaine king, the other one that informed people read between his lines) and victimized so often, Iran is quite satisfied with operative alliance that keeps it afloat under unprecedented circumstances. Do you read any of relevant public sources, like Joshua Landis, or Valdai Club, or … are you reading Russian at all for links and info hints on Iran? Israeli ones or else, in several languages? I can surely bet you don’t. You are nothing but a troll, dude.

    The second, and the final point. Yes, I am a Serbian. Mea ahuz, habibi. And being proud of that private fact doesn’t make me that stupid to be angry about state of people of Iran actions in Bosnia 1989-1995. Government of Islamic Republic of Iran did (as I’ve already mentioned) what was, at the time (you want me to underline it, or what, hamud?) in their national/state interest. In 1999 UN member state Israel didn’t object in formal way on NATO bombing campaign, but Ariel Sharon and Henry Kissinger both presented some serious questions. Learn about them, dumb…s because I’ve survived that all in Belgrade, working for the usurper’s government, because it was my duty.
    So, I’ll find you serious in case that you can, in your expected reply, list all the wars and revolutions that we, Serbs, have been through since 1800 A.D. (од Христа).

    There are Serbs that don’t think that slaughters’ knife is a solution, again, for a benefit of mankind or whatever, because people like you will piss on our keens graves, again, and again, and again, and all over. Or you’ll pretend that you’ve never, ever, heard about … you know, hamudi, something between Aushwitz and Muathausen on that Yad Vashem black stone. There are Serbs, and I| am one of these, who will ask you when and by which slave labor Mauthausen (lovely place, just close to Lintz, Austria) camp happened to be built in WW1? Answer that, dare to do.

    You think that real, right, hundred percent Serbs still are Rebeca West creatures? We are, as much as it is possible in this times, rebuilding our state, values of our culture, regardless of the governor in that fortress up that hill, which is American Embassy. We will not be pushed into meat grinder (“mjasorupka”) by our the most friendly nations and their states ever again.

    Dig it, Eric Cartman?

    Dig it, Eric Cartman?

    • Replies: @FB
  22. syd.bgd says:
    @peterAUS

    There is, no doubts left, chauvinistic approach towards Serbs. Just saying that Iran, a heir of ancient Persia, possibly made some profits in Machiavellian manner, then and there, turns out to be alarm bell. Ever hears abot that funny dude, Herodotus, at least?

    “So let us not talk falsely now
    ’cause the hour is getting late”

    Have a nice morning in your Lord’s forgotten lands of amazing species; shotgun some of those camels that your ancestors imported to cross wilderness that determines your poor military veteran existence. And never forget that Germans (Berlin) bombed us heavily twice when we, Serbs, were fighting against their cause, and that Germans (London/Washington) bombed us twice as well.

    As Chet Bakers sings: Just friends.

    Go back hunting camels, dude, to satisfy your … needs.

  23. syd.bgd says:
    @peterAUS

    Ever heard about the Rolling Stones, you know, the band.
    There are these verses, in song titled “Sympathy for a Devil”:

    “So let me please
    introduce myself …”

    so go on, lady

  24. peterAUS says:

    Yes…yes….

    Let’s summarize, at this stage:
    You are a Serb from Serbia, NOT a Serb from those lands on the Western side of Drina river. A cosmopolitan type (education, Belgrade apparently etc.).
    Not a Serb from Bosnia where those you, apparently, respect, heavily supported the very butchers who massacred your brethren there. Nice…nice….

    Let me ask you something:
    When you read the facts, in 90’s, about Oric, 7th Brigade, Black Swans etc, how did you feel? You did know that Iran was heavily supporting them, all the way? I …suspect…you didn’t feel so respectful about Iran, then.

    So…PLEASE, tell me, what was your “room 101” moment? Bombing of Belgrade? What was the moment you realized that Iran was actually O.K? Persia, Machiavelli, Herodotus etc.

    Nothing personal, mind you.
    Just, I mean, if Serbs can feel that way about all that, well………we have to be careful. If you can be made to feel and think that way, maybe I’ll be made to love “globo-homo” universe.

    Can’t wait to share this with a Serb I know here. Hopefully won’t give the man heart attack. Ah, yes, he actually is a Serb from Bosnia, BTW. Had some fun there and then. Different species from you, looks like it. Older, seen some action, suffered a bit etc.
    Anyway, this is going to be interesting.

    • Replies: @syd.bgd
  25. FB says: • Website
    @syd.bgd

    I see…

    So you’re one of those homosexual ‘Serbs’ that I’ve been hearing about…

    [But which nobody has been able to capture on film…kind of like Sasquatch…the legend lives on…]

    • Replies: @syd.bgd
  26. syd.bgd says:
    @peterAUS

    “Let me ask you something:
    When you read the facts, in 90’s, about Oric, 7th Brigade, Black Swans etc, how did you feel? ”

    Whatever I feel, whatever I might feel, is not relevant to any analysis. It is relevant, as Gourny Halek told to Paul, to cattle or making love.
    You know, camel hunter, your bottoms up first hand knowledge of us Serbs is, simply, emotional. Ask your buddy why Kapetan Dragan, Australian citizen, ended up in Lepoglava, or Stara Gradisha? He expected us here, sanctioned and f…. up day in day out by our only the best wishing EU/USA friends (remember bombings, like, Easter 1944 in Belgrade), to do what they, drinking with pro’s as you are, were not capable to do?
    Let me do Djokovic bachand, hamudi: what about your native Assange? You’re trolling, smearing me with no arguments at all – been through and find none in your posts/smears – while your native is expecting Epstein’s destiny in Tower of London? Why don’t you mind your own damn business?

    C’mon dude. Let us have some Grateful Dead, “Ripple” or “So Many Roads” or “Bird Song” and end this all in peace. Just don’t be lazy to read what I’ve written without your chauvinist, beer helped, bullshit.
    OK?

  27. syd.bgd says:
    @FB

    Great reply to my arguments, for all reasonable folks around here to witness.

    In Eric Cartman’s world there are Serbs who are savage masculine, Serbian only writing (in barbarian Cyrillic), always ready to pull knife, dagger, kinjal when irritated so slit some throat, pull someone’s hearth out of chest, or whatever. Or they are no Serbs at all, save those who are are pu..es, pendehos or worse just because they hate nobody at all. What plainly exposed chauvinist as..ole.

    It is hard to be an Orthodox Christian these days, but I’ve already turned the other cheek. Go on.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @TheTotallyAnonymous
  28. FB says: • Website
    @syd.bgd

    I would say just be careful to whom you ‘turn’ your ‘cheeks…’

  29. @peterAUS

    What makes you think that there is still an Iranian, military, or other, presence in the Muslim parts of Bosnia?

    It doesn’t make much sense. It’s well known that in Bosnia, like Kosovo, ISIS is making inroads and that many of the local Muslims are fighting for ISIS and other terrorist groups in the Middle East. They and the USA are the ones who hold power among Muslims in Bosnia, not Iran. It’s only logical that Iran has lost its in Bosnia ever since 1995.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  30. @syd.bgd

    What ideas and concepts are you even trying to get across???

    At least half of what you have written is incoherent gibberish. Stop making a mockery of us.

    There is no need, or for that matter, any reason for Serbs to shill for Iran at all.

    Forgetting Iran’s role in Bosnia from 1992-1995 is foolish, naive and reckless. In fact, as repulsive as US behavior in the world is, it’s actually a very good thing that the USA and Iran are getting into so much tension with each other. That is, of course, as long as no actual war happens. Literally, the best case scenario for Serbs is as prolonged and intense tension between the USA and Iran as possible, that just stops short of an actual war.

    The only good thing that can be said about Iran is that they at least have the basic human decency to not recognize Kosovo. Nothing more, nothing less.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  31. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    What makes you think that there is still an Iranian, military, or other, presence in the Muslim parts of Bosnia?

    Contacts with some people, on the ground there, I tend to believe.

    It doesn’t make much sense. It’s well known that in Bosnia, like Kosovo, ISIS is making inroads and that many of the local Muslims are fighting for ISIS and other terrorist groups in the Middle East. They and the USA are the ones who hold power among Muslims in Bosnia, not Iran. It’s only logical that Iran has lost its in Bosnia ever since 1995.

    O.K.

    Free will.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  32. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Yep.

    As for:

    ….the best case scenario for Serbs is as prolonged and intense tension between the USA and Iran as possible, that just stops short of an actual war.

    Curious.
    Why not a full fledged war?

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  33. @peterAUS

    Well, i’m not an expert on the internal politics of Muslims (as in Muslims with each other) in Bosnia.

    If you are correct though, it makes for a very interesting scenario. It would possibly mean that pro-Iran Muslims in Bosnia could clash with pro-ISIS/USA Muslims, as in, with political tension at the least, probably not anything more than that. That would also be a good thing for Serbs.

    Still, I don’t particularly care about that and it doesn’t really matter a lot either. What matters, and is very good news, is that Muslims in Bosnia have been demographically collapsing (includes emigration and low birth rates) at the fastest and most severe rate of all the ethnic groups in Bosnia since 2000. Muslims having bad demographic performance must sound unbelievable to most people, but it comes from some of my “contacts”. Who knows, maybe Iran really has influence among Muslims in Bosnia currently, as unbelievable as it sounds. Not that it makes a large difference anyway.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  34. @peterAUS

    A full fledged war between Iran and the USA is not good because it risks involving nukes. Especially with Israel intervening. Plus, it could escalate into WW3 with Russia and China, and so on.

    Anything that goes short of involving nukes being launched is fine, I guess. Regardless of where on the planet nukes are dropped, it’s not a good thing for obvious reasons such as radiation infesting the atmosphere universally over the whole planet and so on.

  35. yurivku says:
    @FB

    Also the Russians consider Serbs as their closest kin…everyone from Putin to the guy on the street will tell you that EVERYTHING CHANGED for Russia with the west’s war on Serbia

    I do confirm it. This time I said to myself – never forget, never forgive…

    What about Saker – he seemed wanted to be Russian, but his view of what is Russian not always true.
    But he doesn’t deserve to be hated, IMHO.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  36. @yurivku

    The thing with Saker is that he does have some genuinely good perspectives and analyses, but that only comes from his ethnic Russian side.

    His problem is that all of his other content is just a typical Swiss/West Euro/American boomer perspective. That is, with all of his ranting about “Nazis”, racism and White Supremacists. Also his shilling for Muslims as well. As problematic as Jews are, it’s not realistic to expect all the goyim to get together against Israel. These things are just typical libtard/leftist anti-racist/anti-“fascist” platitudes.

    The Saker was at his best by the early 2010’s, as in the mid and late 2000’s, most people genuinely did not understand anything about Russia in the West. Everyone seriously was obsessed with evil Putler and so on. The majority of people in the West still go on about “ebil Russia”, but by this point in 2019, most of the alternative internet community has understood that Russia is not something exceptionally evil, or great in its current state. The majority of people in the West, that have a brain, treat Russia as a fringe issue considering how hardcore they are being demographically replaced out of existence. The demographic replacement of all European descended populations, in Europe and beyond, is a genuine and real issue that The Saker should honestly assess and acknowledge. It’s real and its happening.

    I am thankful to Saker for covering some truths about the plight of Serbs during the 1990’s and throughout history in general. Still, Saker should drop the whole Serbs must ally with Muslims thing, especially with Albanians. It’s not going to happen because of local Balkan factors, that is, the arrogantly bad and criminal behavior of Muslims in both Bosnia and Kosovo. If he keeps up with it, it will lead to him getting doxxed again, just like that old Serbian woman who doxxed The Saker a few years ago.

    For the sake of keeping his reader base, Saker should drop all his anti-racist/anti-white talking points, all the pro-Muslim content beyond the context of hostility to Israel, and continue with everything else at the very minimum.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  37. yurivku says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    The majority of people in the West, that have a brain, treat Russia as a fringe issue considering how hardcore they are being demographically replaced out of existence.

    I really doubt there are many people in the West who have brains. Reading majority of comments here confirm this point. Not to say of western MSMs.

    Majority of Russians now hate and despise “the West”. This is real result of its policy. And last inflection point to this was bombing of Serbia our last and only true friend. As well we’re quite ready to show our military experience to it. We are fed up listening to tons of lies, insultments and fakes coming to us from the west.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  38. @FB

    A Jew is not trustworthy as a true Russian, and those Jews (religiously observant or not) showed their primary loyalty and priority by moving to a Jewish ethnostate.

    Israel is established for the benefits of Jews, period, not Russians or anyone else. People who are actually Russian and love Russia don’t settle permanently in a land governed by a hostile, alien religion and people.

    Russia should indeed protect actual Russians abroad whenever reasonably possible. That doesn’t include Israelis who used to live in Russia.

  39. @yurivku

    Well, that’s a different issue then. I was writing about how The Saker can keep himself relevant for his Western reader base.

    Majority of Russians now hate and despise “the West”. This is real result of its policy. As well we’re quite ready to show our military experience to it. We are fed up listening to tons of lies, insultments and fakes coming to us from the west.

    This is actually a good and healthy thing. Don’t expect it to change in the near future though. That media propaganda will continue, but it will not matter much in the future, given the absurd and destructive internal policies of the West. They simply make the weakening power of “the West”, especially the USA inevitable. It is similar to the fall or dissolution of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century. Since we are those of the Eastern Roman Empire, the smart approach is to just wait for it to happen, but focus on your own area. Just like the pressure from the Western Roman Empire gradually faded over time for practical reasons, the Eastern Roman Empire’s focus shifted to repelling barbarians and invaders. A similar lesson applies to the current times and the future coming in this century, as far as Russians and Serbs are concerned.

    And last inflection point to this was bombing of Serbia our last and only true friend.

    Even though Serbs are less discussed in international media than Russians, whenever they are brought up in anything to do with politics, it is always only in as dark and evil a light as possible. It’s annoying and lame, but it will stop being relevant in the future. Still, nothing is going to change in at least the next 10 years, or 5 years at the theoretically earliest possible moment. These inevitable long term processes take some time to show their effects.

    For instance, in Serbia’s case, the USA and EU are still strong in the Balkans and continue with their relentless political pressures to absorb Serbia into Euro-Atlantic integration in the EU and NATO, but a few cracks are already beginning to show. It will not happen because they are too weak to push it through and Serb politicians are doing their best to resist, but, they are still strong enough to still seriously keep trying. This is most notably the case with Kosovo. So, for now, what is needed is patience and a focus on internal development for both Russians and Serbs. The time to wipe the ground with all the scum in our neighborhoods will come later.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Kiza
    , @Commentator Mike
  40. FB says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You South Slav nationalists are ridiculous…

    There is factually zero genetic and linguistic difference between Croats and Serbs for instance…

    Compare this to say India where the largest ethnic group, Bengalis make up less than a fifth of the country’s population…the rest is literally dozens of different ethnicities…

    Even among the Han Chinese, the difference in language between Mandarin and Cantonese makes them practically unintelligible to one another…

    You South Slavs had a GREAT country…that was an actual player on the world stage…I first visited this beautiful country in the 1980s and it quickly became my favorite…I could not have imagined at the time a violent dissolution of this amazingly successful nation…

    But all it took was imperialist outside powers to support the worst nationalist scum [with which you clearly find cause]…to destroy an independent shining example of post-colonialism…

    Do you not remember Habsburg and Ottoman overlordship of your peoples…well now you can renew your acquaintance with serfdom…only now your sahib is the globohomo empire which is even worse than all that came before it…

    You are right however that this empire of illusions is on its last legs…but when that happens you South Slavs need to reunite…fortunately I see signs of exactly that among the young generation of Croat and Serb intellectuals…

    Meanwhile royalist Serbs like yourself, sitting on a couch in Australia…as well as your mirror image brainwashed diaspora Croat nationalists will become as irrelevant to human progress as you have always been…

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  41. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    If you are correct though, it makes for a very interesting scenario. It would possibly mean that pro-Iran Muslims in Bosnia could clash with pro-ISIS/USA Muslims, as in, with political tension at the least, probably not anything more than that. That would also be a good thing for Serbs.

    There is another option.

    I don’t particularly care about that and it doesn’t really matter a lot either.

    ..maybe Iran really has influence among Muslims in Bosnia currently, as unbelievable as it sounds. Not that it makes a large difference anyway.

    O.K.

    Plus, from the post below:

    A full fledged war between Iran and the USA is not good because it risks involving nukes…..could escalate into WW3 with Russia and China, and so on.

    let’s move on.

  42. Back on topic, if the USA goes to war with any country in the world next, it will be Iran.

    In my opinion, the Iranians are way too easy to provoke. The reason there hasn’t been war between the USA and Iran so far is much more because of Trump’s restrain in spite of the Neocon lunatics surrounding him, rather than anything else. A common and even cliche prediction states there will be war between the USA and Iran by 2024. Let’s see.

    • Replies: @Biff
  43. @EoinW

    Americans don’t really know Russia or Russians. The ones that have immigrated here tend either to be Jews who don’t view themselves as Russian or they are dispersed here and there not really forming concrete communities. They have a hard time separating the USSR from Russia, although the same could be said for some Russians. Russians think they know Americans but then again, Russians think they know everything.

    • Replies: @Patricus
  44. Kiza says:

    There is one little fact about Iran that even FB in his hyper-intolerant approach to the discussion here misses. It is not only that Iran delivered armaments to the Bosnian Muslims during UN sanctions on all local participants in this Western intervention. The civil war was just the consequence of this US/UK/German/French political, undercover and military intervention – similar team as in Libya and Syria later. Iran also delivered head-chopping Mujahideen to Bosnia. But wait here is the clincher – both the armaments and the warriors were delivered on US transport planes, sometimes with UN markings, landing at Sarejevo airport. You read this right – Iran and its Great Satan were cooperating against the Orthodox Christians in the Balkans, whilst Shiite Iranians were fighting on the side of Sunni Muslims in Bosnia. Thus, Iranian Mullahs and Saudi Wahhabi preachers were competing for the souls of the Bosnian Muslims.

    Overall, I will never condone FBs antisocial behavior in comments, but he is much closer to the truth than the Saker. The Saker wants to play diplomat by jumping on-board the new trend: Russia making friends of the old enemies. But this can be only because he has no real understanding of history and human nature. The same goes for the Russian political elite: yes Russians, do make friends of the former enemies such as Turkey and Iran, or current enemies such as Israel, but if you ever count on those not “stabbing you in the back” in the eternal words of your glorious leader then be ready for many a funeral.

    • Replies: @FB
  45. Kiza says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    I fully support your reasoned comments. But FB is not a troll he is simply pollution in the discussion.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  46. Tom Welsh says:
    @alexander

    “The “establishment elite” within the United States, have great “antipathy” towards Russia.

    “The American People do NOT”.

    The difficulty your statements present, Alexander, is that we are always told that the USA is a democracy. Indeed, not just a democracy but the supreme essence of democracy – the democracy to which all other states must aspire.

    How can that be, if the US government and people have such utterly contrary views?

    Either in a true democracy or in any other constitution, modern political theory holds that the people have sovereignty and supreme authority.

    Thus, either the US government represents the will of the US people, or it is a tyranny imposed on them against their will.

    Either way, is it not their duty to assert sovereignty and take control of the government? If the politicians in Washington are the servants of the US people, aren’t they defiantly disobedient? Why does that American people not reprimand and punish them?

    And, if the USA is a democracy, why do the people not withdraw their mandate from the disobedient representatives, and elect representatives who will carry out the will of the people?

  47. Kiza says:
    @syd.bgd

    From realist point of view, state of Iran played as it was expected: never miss a chance to muddy some waters supporting a moslem side or the other, someplace.
    Iranians are masters of asymmetric politics and warfare: nothing personal, Serbs.

    This is a good summary of my attitude as well, I never thought that playing football/soccer with the heads of the captured Bosnian Serb soldiers was anything personal – it was just some deserved R&R. At least they never sold the internal organs of their victims, as the Albanians did in Kosovo, via Turkey to Israel. All these fine new allies of Russia have always been part of any mess that the West cooked up.

    • Replies: @syd.bgd
  48. Antares says:

    Some reporters dig for days, weeks or even months through complicated data. Saker just asks the press spokesman “what shall I write?” Really think that anyone appreciates this piece of garbage? Just because the man happens to be Iranian? It could have been written by everyone. Inspired by Moon of Alabama? Give me a break. One man at the helm and lots of followers. Don’t dissent there! It all sounds like: his enemy is wrong so he must be right.

    • Agree: FB
  49. @FB

    FB,

    The biggest grievance of Iranians towards USSR/Russia could be this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran

    • Replies: @FB
  50. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    The biggest player and influence among the Muslims in ex-Yugo (Bosnia) and Serbia (Kosovo, Sandzak, Preshevo) is Turkey. Now with the colder relations of Turkey with NATO, US, EU, the fact that many Turk military of Bosniak, Kosovar , and Albanian origins in the pay of the CIA were involved in the attempted Gulenist/US backed coup against Erdogan, the closer cooperation of Turkey with Russia, the building of the South Stream, Serbian diplomats, if smart, would look at how to exploit this new relationship between their greatest historical friend and bitterest enemy. Of course Turks can’t be trusted and are fickle, treasonous, and changeable but that is for the mighty Russia bearing down on them from their northern border to ensure they stay the course in their new orientation. I’m sure there could be something there for Serbia to exploit to its advantage. And Serbs, as well as all those others there in ex-Yugo, could learn something from how Russia was able to overcome any grudges for the downing of their plane and the assassination of their ambassador by Erdogan’s personal bodyguard no less, even assisting Erdogan with intelligence to squash the coup attempt, and focus on greater national and regional interests. Hate is good up to a point, but not to be blinded by the hate. Serbs should look how to fit into this newer geopolitical order that is being created to their advantage, and not just banging on the door of the EU and clamouring for more Pride parades, degeneracy, Western investments, EU and Western this and that, …

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  51. @FB

    Just because you couldn’t deny what I wrote, pretending I did not write it is weak and dishonest. I mentioned the instances in the historical timeline and you require details? I did mention Azerbaijan, are you really that pathetic? I’d be the first to argue the Soviet Union and Russia are not the same thing but when the people are the same both sides of that dividing line what does it matter to Iran?

    I don’t feel like writing you an essay, I shall quote something with enough detail you’d have to be an idiot to keep denying there has been tension..

    “Relations between Russia and Iran have long been difficult—and appear likely to remain so. Tensions date back to the early 19th century, when Iran lost territory to the Russian Empire. Tsarist Russia intervened militarily against Iran’s 1905-1911 Constitutional Revolution. The Soviet Union supported the secession of the “Gilan Soviet” in northwestern Iran at the end of World War I, and of Iranian Azerbaijan and Kurdistan at the end of World War II. The Soviet Union (and Britain) occupied Iran during World War II. And Joseph Stalin’s subsequent refusal to withdraw Soviet troops led to one of the first crises of the Cold War. Soviet support for the Tudeh, Iran’s Communist Party, angered both the monarchy and theocracy. And the Soviet Union armed and aided Iraq during its 1980-1988 war with Iran. Even now, the Iranian press routinely refers to these events as reasons why Tehran should not trust Moscow.”

    http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/iran-and-russia

    • Replies: @FB
  52. Biff says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Back on topic, if the USA goes to war with any country in the world next, it will be Iran.

    In my opinion, the Iranians are way too easy to provoke. The reason there hasn’t been war between the USA and Iran so far is much more because of Trump’s restrain in spite of the Neocon lunatics surrounding him, rather than anything else. A common and even cliche prediction states there will be war between the USA and Iran by 2024. Let’s see.

    Wrong!!!

    Israel is going to go to war with Iran, and it’s going to use its’ dumb uncle(the USA) as the punching bag; and the media will convince the public that this is a good thing.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  53. @peterAUS

    Thank you for your excellent and insightful contribution Peter.

  54. @jiri

    Funnily enough, it’s almost the same in Russian: “Bagh” = “Bogh” (God), “Dad” = “Dan” (Given). Clearly goes back to the proto-Aryan roots

  55. @Commentator Mike

    the closer cooperation of Turkey with Russia, the building of the South Stream, Serbian diplomats, if smart, would look at how to exploit this new relationship between their greatest historical friend and bitterest enemy. … I’m sure there could be something there for Serbia to exploit to its advantage. And Serbs, as well as all those others there in ex-Yugo, could learn something from how Russia was able to overcome any grudges for the downing of their plane and the assassination of their ambassador by Erdogan’s personal bodyguard no less, even assisting Erdogan with intelligence to squash the coup attempt, and focus on greater national and regional interests.

    Turkey already has trade relations with both Serbia and Republika Srpska. Russia only negotiates with Turkey because it has something to gain from them, trade, most especially the gas pipeline, and victory in Syria, which is why it forgave the slight of Turkey shooting down its jet. Serbs have nothing to gain from negotiating with Muslims in Bosnia and Albanians in Kosovo. Along with the USA, all these groups are trying to impose agenda’s only in their interests and completely harmful to Serbs. That is, absorption of Republika Srpska into the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia permanently surrendering Kosovo. There is nothing to negotiate here, since Serbs can gain nothing from negotiation. Hence why Serbian leaders have been adopting positions of stalling, delaying and sabotaging negotiations over these issues for at least the past 10 years, if not longer. They will only continue to do so in the future since that is the necessary and logical course of action to take.

    Serbs should look how to fit into this newer geopolitical order that is being created to their advantage, and not just banging on the door of the EU and clamouring for more Pride parades, degeneracy, Western investments, EU and Western this and that, …

    Well, this new geopolitical order hasn’t come about just yet, most things take time in this world. If you think that most Serbs seriously support joining the EU and NATO, take a look at the opinion polls. Barely more than 50% of Serbs support joining the EU under normal circumstances, but considering that surrendering Kosovo has been made the condition for Serbia to join the EU, it will not happen because opinion polls show that 74% of Serbs, and probably more, are strongly opposed to recognizing Kosovo to join the EU. Putting this aside, EU leaders themselves, most notably Macron, have stated that enlargement of the EU cannot happen because the EU is barely functional as it is. The EU, “must be internally reformed” as Macron has stated, before it can accept Balkan states to join it. EU membership for Serbia is literally one of the worst memes in the 21st century to date. Some scum in the middle of Belgrade, bought and paid for 5th Columnists, and exaggerated media reports have distorted your understanding of the situation on the ground, if you even had one to begin with.

    You should not make comments on matters you do not know much about. The same especially applies for FB with his moronic statements about the greatness of Yugoslavism along with the other garbage he spat out in his retarded comment.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  56. iffen says:

    apartheid regime and that it is morally unacceptable

    I find the idea that Iranians and the Iranian government are “morally” opposed to apartheid to be hysterically comical.

    • Agree: TKK
  57. TKK says:
    @someoneSomehwere

    Your ignorance is cringe worthy.

    Iran and Iraq are blood enemies due to the ancient blood feud of Shia and Sunni division. It’s what drives the misery in the Middle East. Not Israel. Not America.

    It’s a Grand Canyon sized red herring.

    This “Professor” ( eye roll) has to tow the party line of Iran: note his use of “Wahhabi menace”. That’s Iran’s hatred of Saudi Arabia.

    The recent bombing in Afghanistan at a wedding where 61 people were murdered. You do realize that was done by Sunni terrorists because it was a Shia wedding?

    Just because this man is based in Iran does not mean he has any particularly special or insightful commentary. I have a good friend Solmaz who lives in Tehran- We can bring her up on Skype and she can enlighten us just as well. However, she would be more truthful because she is apolitical.

    These are his opinions as he lives in a theocratic regime, where he cannot speak any truth other than what has been indoctrinated in him.

    Remove the United States and Israel from the equation, and the Shia/ Sunni- read Iran/ Saudi –
    blood feud will continue until the sun melts.

    Oddly, Saddam Hussein understood this. He was hardcore Sunni, but he kept his boot on the throat of his country so Shias could have some type of life. After he was killed, bedlam broke loose when this balance was overturned, specifically by the idiot Paul Wolfowitz.

    • Troll: BengaliCanadianDude
    • Replies: @someoneSomehwere
  58. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Interesting interview , thank you Unz !

    The western stablishment is completely rusophobic , and also a good part of the population of the west , conditioned by the official propaganda . The english and their north-american heirs , with Nato , are the core of the russophobia .

    The english pirates are always fighting against someone in order to steal something , against the french , the spanish , the germans , the turks , the russians , the arabs , the chinese , the indians , the latinamericans ….

    Now powerful rivals if not ennemies of a decadent west are arising everywhere : China , India , the Islam , Africa ….. The west could have had a good ally in Russia . After the fall of the USSR Russia was kneeling kissing western ass to be admitted in the ” west ” , since they were not comunist any longer , but just they got sacked ,despised , humiliated , insulted , and now they are mad as hell against the west .

    Perfidia anglica .

  59. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    EU leaders themselves, most notably Macron, have stated that enlargement of the EU cannot happen because the EU is barely functional as it is.

    #40

    For instance, in Serbia’s case, the USA and EU are still strong in the Balkans and continue with their relentless political pressures to absorb Serbia into Euro-Atlantic integration in the EU and NATO

    Well make up your mind man about what’s going on seeing you’re one of those Mr. Knowitalls.

    #34

    What matters, and is very good news, is that Muslims in Bosnia have been demographically collapsing (includes emigration and low birth rates) at the fastest and most severe rate of all the ethnic groups in Bosnia since 2000.

    The same is happening in Serbia, it is losing massive numbers due to emigration and die out of an ageing population. I bet the Bosnians and Croats think that’s good news too, not to mention the Kosovar Albanians considering their highest reproduction rate.

    #40

    The time to wipe the ground with all the scum in our neighborhoods will come later.

    And have you calculated what fighting age male population will be left in Serbia by that whatever date to do what you propose? And Russia will not do it for you like the US does it for Israel – fight your wars.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  60. Zionism is the real cause of the wars in the middle east and is the agent provocateur in America, where it is in control of the zio/US government and as a result of this control provides the muscle behind the Israeli wars and threats of war against countries in the mideast.

    Thank God for Putin and Russia for defeating AL CIADA aka ISIS in Syria and saving the Syrian people from this terrorist organization, which was created and funded and supplied by the zio/US and Israel and zio/Britain, terrorist groups funded by terrorist zionist regimes!

    Iran aka Persia has not started a war in over 300 years and is a valiant defender of Syria and Iraq and Lebanon.

  61. @FB

    Agreed, yes, in general, but not completely. Let’s just leave it at that. It’d take to long to debate what I partly or completely disagree with and why. Not really important anyway as we’re dealing mostly with blockheads here.

  62. @someoneSomehwere

    ,. . . and, both are majority Shi’ite Muslim sects.

    • Replies: @someoneSomehwere
  63. @Rabbitnexus

    The American public has been made blind to any of the realities of world events by a biased and agenda-driven media, “news,” entertainment, and sports. Not that most of the populace can conduct any genuinely serious “thinking” in the abstract anyway, so they are easy pickings for viewpoint manipulation.

  64. FB says: • Website
    @Kiza

    Get a load of Cheesehead Kiza virtue signaling about my supposed ‘bad’ behavior…[standing up for the retarded and homo community I suppose…]

    Thus ruining what was actually a solid and informative post…certainly the Iranians are no angels, just ask the Syrians…this guy Marandi is especially obnoxious to me because he is a greasy propagandist…

    • Replies: @FB
  65. Herald says:

    Without any doubt that is the best ever contribution that Peter has made on Unz. Remarkable stuff, but it isvery unlikely that he will be able to keep it up.

    • LOL: FB
  66. Herald says:
    @Rabbitnexus

    At this time 73% of Americans view Russia unfavorably and 32% say it is the US greatest enemy.

    When all along, their greatest enemy is their own government.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  67. @Commentator Mike

    Well make up your mind man about what’s going on seeing you’re one of those Mr. Knowitalls.

    What is there to make up my mind about? The elites of the USA and EU are obsessed with pushing for Serbia’s integration into the EU and NATO. Even though they are not going to be successful with this and this reality is slowly hitting them, hence my mention of Macron’s attitude to EU expansion, these elites are still obsessed with trying to push through what they can for as long as they have the potential to do so.

    The same is happening in Serbia, it is losing massive numbers due to emigration and die out of an ageing population. I bet the Bosnians and Croats think that’s good news too, not to mention the Kosovar Albanians considering their highest reproduction rate.

    Why are you assuming that Albanians on Kosovo have had a reproduction rate above 2.1 since 2000? In fact, what makes you think you can assume that they have the highest reproduction rate in the region over literally everyone else? Proof? Evidence? Would you care to cite any sources? Information? Facts? Have you ever even bothered to look at a formal population, demographic or ethnic map of the current Balkans at all?

    As for what Croats and Muslims think about Serbian population decrease, that’s their problem and it’s irrelevant. They are also demographically collapsing as well. Their total numbers in the Balkans are also smaller than Serbs in the Balkans. Around 4.5 million Croats and 2.5 million Muslims that is. Mind you, they’ve only achieved these numbers despite their campaigns of extermination against Serbs in WW1, WW2 and the 1990’s.

    If the endgame is such that everyone will disappear because of population decline through emigration, low birth rates, and an aging population, Serbs will have the last laugh over Croats, Muslims, and even Albanians considering there are 7 million Serbs in the Balkans.

    And have you calculated what fighting age male population will be left in Serbia by that whatever date to do what you propose? And Russia will not do it for you like the US does it for Israel – fight your wars.

    What date??? I didn’t set a date for anything at all. I just stated one of the long term goals. Considering that barely more than 1 million Serbs in Bosnia could fight for 3 years against the aggression of their more numeric Muslim and Croat neighbors teamed together, completely alone, with the sanctions of not only the whole world, but Slobodan Milosevic as well, and survive in decent form with their own Republika Srpska entity, why wouldn’t there be more than enough Serbs to fight from a population base as low as 1 million?

    This assumes that it will even come to a time where all Serbs in the Balkans are reduced to a total of 1 million people. If so, there’ll be more than enough people to fight if needed.

    Are you sure that Russia won’t fight for Serbia like the USA fights for Israel? Russia has certainly gotten itself involved in many intense, costly and expensive wars to fight for Serbian interests in the past. The Russo-Turkish War 1877-1878 and more famously, WW1, are the two wars that instantly come to mind. If Russia has fought for Serbia before, why not again in the future if it’s necessary or the circumstances are right?

    Again, you’re only demonstrating how superficial and shallow your understanding of the Balkans is. You know so little about this that you think you know everything and that your are inherently superior. Unfortunately, far too many Americans are like this which is partly why their country poses a mortal danger to the whole planet. The sooner that the USA stops interfering in the affairs of everyone else in the world, the better.

    • Replies: @syd.bgd
  68. FB says: • Website
    @FB

    I should also add that even as we speak Iran is PARTNERING with the west on the Rohingya issue in Myanmar…supporting Muslim terrorists that are being directly choreographed by the empire to sow Chaos there, in order to sabotage Myanmar’s deepening ties to China vis a vis the BRI projects in that country…

    The excellent Irish journalist Gerald O’Coleman [sp…?] has detailed this with some top notch reporting and analysis…and draws a direct analogy between Iran’s actions in Myanmar and the ex Yugoslavia…

    The western presstitute media is now in full demonization mode against their former darling Aung San Suu Kyi, and even agitating to have her Nobel Peace Prize rescinded…LOL

    But god bless her she is no fool and knows which way the wind is blowing…

    So how does one suppose that China AND Russia are feeling about this bullshit from Iran…and what does that imply for Iran being admitted into the SCO…?

    Fortunately China and Russia especially are masters of mature diplomacy and are able to compartmentalize separate diplomatic issues…and thus continue to support Iran in both Syria and on the illegal US sanctions front…

    Iran is incapable of such diplomacy…for them EVERYTHING is rolled up in one ball of wax…thus the continuing hostility to Russia…

    Even Turkish diplomacy is light years ahead of the religious zealots in Iran…Erdog just came back from China where he gave his blessing to the Chinese handling of the Uighur problem…even while giving cover to Uighur terrorists in Syria…which is surely a sore spot for the Chinese…

    Same with Russia-Turkey relations…again Erdog is able to separate issues like cooperation with Russia on many fronts, from the Idlib issue where his pet jihadis are now getting creamed…

    That is just Realpolitik…Iran is incapable of that…

  69. @Herald

    73% + 32% = 105%. If 105% of the American population has a negative opinion on Russia, we not only have a political but also a mathematical problem.

  70. FB says: • Website
    @Rabbitnexus

    Look dummy…I don’t have time to waste on people who are still on training wheels…

    Azeris are NOT Persians…in fact they are a Turkic people speaking a Turkic language, while Iranians are Aryans, speaking an Indo-European language…

    If you knew anything more than bubblegum level history, you would know that the political divide between the north Azeris and the southern ones in Iran has existed for centuries, going back to the Khazar-Arab wars in the eighth century…hundreds of years before the Russians conquered the area…

    Do everyone a favor and stop wasting our time…

    • Replies: @Anon
  71. “The Israeli regime constantly tells the Russians and the Chinese that they are the gateway to Washington and that if they maintain strong ties with Israel, the Israelis can help them solve their problems with the United States.”

    This is exactly what the Zionists promised Britain in 1917. Then they turned on Britain once they were able to establish themselves in Palestine.

    I suspect that the Russian leadership is very cognizant of this capacity of Zionists to flip sides whenever it is convenient for them…

  72. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Well…if that’ WW2 joint Anglo-Russian occupation is the Iranians’ beef, then they are truly deluded…as most religious nuts happen to be…including Saker…

    For decades prior to WW2 the Iranians had been cultivating CLOSE TIES to the German Empire…as a counter to the British and Russians…

    Iran had to be occupied during the war because they would have obviously given the Germans a southern flank…of course they were not mistreated at all and were none the worse for it…

    Postwar, it was the British that swooped in to skim the oil from the Persians…and the Americans came in bigtime with aggressive military posture as I have already detailed…

    Also I would advise that regarding ex Yugoslavia it is useless to talk to an extremist pinhead like this syd.bgd twerp…he’s a greenbeak who’s a little too big for his britches…he needs grandma to let out the seams a little…

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  73. @FB

    Yeah, well talking to ex-Yugos about their disputes is like India – Pakistan.

    • Replies: @FB
  74. @FB

    “ When exactly did Russia interfere in Iran…?“

    On 31 August 1907, the most extraordinary and humiliating event in Iran’s relations with Russia and Britain took place. The Anglo-Russian Convention was signed, which divided Iran into spheres of influence and reconciled the differences between the governments of Russia and Britain. Though the preamble of the agreement mentioned the integrity and independence of Persia, the Iranian government was not even informed about the convention. According to the first article of the convention, the northern and central areas of Iran were reserved for Russia, with Britain promising “not to seek for herself, and not to support in favor of British subjects, or in favour of the subjects of third Powers, any concession of a political or commercial nature.” Britain also promised “not to oppose directly or indirectly, demands for similar Concessions in this region which are supported by the Russian Government” (Hurewitz, I, pp. 538-41; Kazemzadeh, 1968, pp. 499-500; Browne, pp. 172 ff.; Nazem, pp. 20-31). Southeastern Iran came under the British sphere of influence, where Russia undertook similar obligations. The area between the Russian and British spheres of interest was made neutral territory. The agreement confirmed the actual division of Iran into Russian and British spheres of interest, which had developed de facto by the end of the 19th century (Andreeva, 2007, p. 52).

    Russia was strongly opposed to the Constitutional Revolution from its very beginning.

    Copied from Encyclopaedia Iranica

    • Replies: @FB
  75. Professor Marandi. “Iran firmly believes that Israel is a colonial and apartheid regime and that it is morally unacceptable for it to exist in its present form”

    Israel is an illegitimate entity/regime. It has to transform into a true secular democracy or drown. No ifss or butts.

    • Replies: @FB
  76. FB says: • Website
    @Joe Levantine

    Copied from Encyclopedia Iranica

    LOL

    That convention was about SPHERES OF INFLUENCE…no Iranian territory was seized nor encroached upon…

    It was a bilateral agreement to counter the German Empire’s expansion into Persia…which the Persians welcomed…and which would have given Germany, again, a southern flank in the upcoming WW1…

    Also included in this agreement was Afghanistan and Tibet…do the Chinese still harp about this…?

    These laughable ‘historical grievances’ objectively prove that there are none…

  77. FB says: • Website
    @Rev. Spooner

    …entity/regime…

    Well which one is it…the two do not mean the same thing…

    If you’re arguing that the Israeli ‘entity’ is illegitimate, then you do not have international law on your side…

    Israel is legally recognized by international law in its pre-1967 borders…whether we like it or not…

    Yes even this legitimate Israel is a colonialist entity, and those of us that oppose colonialism will hold our nose…

    But at the same time we need to respect international law if we are ever to achieve a genuine rules-based order…

    As I have pointed out we cannot demand that Israel complies with international law by withdrawing FULLY from the occupied territories, if we insist on cherry-picking those same rules…

    If Israel is an illegitimate regime IN ISRAEL PROPER…then it is an internal matter…and again regime change is not part of the rules…

    We can only demand that Israel ceases its violations and pulls out from the occupied territories…when Iran accepts this LAW-BASED position, it will be embraced fully by the Russia-China axis as embodied by the SCO…

  78. peterAUS says:

    https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-guard-s-general-says-they-were-in-bosnia-disguised-as-aid-workers/29886373.html
    “Iranian controversial conservative activist Saeed Ghasemi during an Interview with a photo in background showing him and his comrades during the Bosnian conflict in the early 1990s”
    “…he had visited Bosnia in the 1990s to train Bosnian Muslim fighters against the Serbs while wearing the Iranian Red Crescent uniform”

    https://en.irna.ir/news/83152746/Iran-s-productions-broadcasting-in-Bosnian-networks-increasing

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  79. ZIONIST ARE HANDS DOWN THE BIGGEST FUCKIN THREAT TO HUMANITY AND THE WORLD!👹🇮🇱👹

    These aliens from hell, the Khazarian Mafia soulless criminal cabal who have killed more than 180 million people in the last century keep inciting Americans to inflame the hatred against Muslims and Christians and keep doing all these false flags to keep America in constant and never ending wars for the benefit of the most criminal entity the world has ever known, IsraHELL.

    Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.
    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    There is a lie. Then there is a BIG LIE. Then there is 911. Santa Claus is beyond a LIE. Tel LIE vised 911 EvangeLIED are being taken for a ride by way of Deception to think Jesus Christ died for their Evils. Everyone shall have to account for deeds, either good or evil to enter Paradise or eternal abode in Hell fire.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public. – See more at:Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11

    Join the Zionist Crusade!
    Join the U.S military and fight for Israel.
    Seven Islamic countries need to be destroyed for Greater Israel Project.
    1.Afghanistan- check
    2.Iraq-check
    3.Sudan-check
    4.Libya-check
    5.Somalia-check
    6.Syria-In Progress
    7.Iran-TBA

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  80. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Euroblues . The present G7 meeeting in Biarriz ( France ) has originated some hilarious contradictions . Macron said that Russia should go back to the G7 , which would be again the G8 , and that Europe extended from Lisbon to Vladivoskok .

    Donald Tusk , polish , President ( non elected ) of the Council of Europe says that not Russsia but Ukraina should join the G7 , surely the polish . And why not to pick up for 8th member China , India , Mexico , Brazil , Spain , Turkey , Iran , Egypt ….. or even Rusia ( which has not shown much interest in joining the rich`s club ,the G7 ) , hilarious contradictions . does Tusk have a catathymic deformation of judgement , pure rusophobia , or it is just a polish way or reasoning ?

    Anyway for those who complain about Trump`s and Boris hyperthymia , see some european catathymia .

    Quod Jupiter vult perdere dementat prius – Those who Jupiter wants to lose first mekes them lose theit mind .

    • Replies: @FB
    , @AnonFromTN
  81. FB,

    I don’t know about that upholding international law or appealing to it. When your enemy has no respect for it why bother to call on it. Israel has disrespected all international laws and conventions so why should it have any rights at all, or why should its enemies consider its any rights? Same goes for the US. And well … for just about anybody. I know they all make a big deal about it, especially the US, but only when it serves its purpose or justifies its actions, never when its the opposite case. Yes I know, even a criminal who breaks the law has some protection under the law, but still … some have broken it so many times and have shown they’ll never reform so for those I say sod the law – just give them hell, when and if you can. I personally detest criminals hiding behind the law.

    • Disagree: FB
  82. @alexander

    I’m not so sure Americans, on average, understand what is going on. Since I started getting informed, around 9/11/01, I have found VERY few Americans (be it family, friends, co-workers, acquaintances, etc) who can discuss Foreign policy. They will simply mimic what they hear on mainstream, without any pre-analysis, and when pressed for further details they go silent or say “I don’t really want to discuss this”, etc.

    I was amazed at how easily Russia-gate permeated most people I know. What is sadder, it is easy to start going over Facts with Americans and either they get Mad OR they start agreeing with everything you say, even though you know they don’t really understand.

    Sad days ahead. Prognosis: poor.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Anon
  83. FB says: • Website
    @Anon

    An additional tidbit…Javad Zarif just touched down in Biarritz, at the invitation of the French…

    Coming on the heels of the Putin visit…we may need to reassess our appraisal of the Micro-Napoleon…

    He’s definitely stirring the pot… LOL

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  84. @freedom-cat

    freedom-cat

    I bet they think all those Hong Kong rioters are some kind of human rights activists instead of common criminals standing up for far bigger criminals to help them escape rough justice in China that they richly deserved. Yeah, try debating that with them.

    And if in the US a bunch of people gather to demand freedom of speech and an end to political censorship by media and IT companies what are they? Not fascists, Nazis or racists by any chance?

    • Agree: FB
  85. Art says:

    The Israeli regime constantly tells the Russians and the Chinese that they are the gateway to Washington and that if they maintain strong ties with Israel, the Israelis can help them solve their problems with the United States.

    Count the ways the Israeli Jews use our America.

    How disgusting.

    Among many many others, we can thank the Israeli agents – Rep. Steny Hoyer and Senator Lindsey Graham for this outrage.

    Do No Harm — Art

  86. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @freedom-cat

    The idiots are absolute majority nowadays , and many of them have University diplomas ,

    sad days ahead agree . Have you seen the movie IDIOCRACY ( 2006 ) ??? , prophetic , makes you laugh , but also sad .

  87. L.K says:
    @FB

    FB == Hasbara gatekeeper.

  88. Just ten years ago it was impossible to imagine Russia, China, and Iran acting in concert in so many places in the world. They seemed utterly incompatible: white sort of Orthodox Christian Russia, yellow China where the most non-religious “religions”, Confucianism and Buddhism, are represented most, and militantly Islamic Shia Iran, technically white, but due to its history deeply resentful of European influence. Catastrophically shortsighted (a polite substitute for “demented”) policies of the Empire and its boot-lickers achieved the impossible: an alliance in everything but name of these countries. What’s more, belated attempts by the Empire to create tensions between these countries are clearly seen by all of them for what they are and summarily dismissed. No doubt, this alliance is unnatural, and it will come to an end, but only after the downfall of the Empire and its vassals. The US has a knack of working miracles, including those lethal for it.

    • Replies: @Republic
  89. @FB

    As the French say, Macron wants to be like Putin, but the leash gets in the way. Maybe he loosened his leash a bit?

  90. @Anon

    As a matter of fact, I like Tusk’s idea. Considering how useless is the meeting of the US and its boot-lickers, Ukraine would be a perfect invitee. The only difficulty is that they’d have to invite Burkina Faso or the Republic of Palau at the same time, to make Ukraine feel equal to at least some of the participants.

  91. syd.bgd says:
    @Kiza

    Agreed, Zoran

    Just a notice. Iran helped moving AQ folks to Bosnia and Herzegovina in their own interest. As I’ve already mentioned, USA and Pakistan implanted, by Saudi money, Arab Wahabbis in Iran’s traditional background. They were happy to have them out of there, as many as possible. These nice people were playing soccer with cut off Serbian heads, not Al Quds Force operatives, but Naser Oric and his butchers from UN protected Srebrenica did the same. Sunnis. Like Bosnian Moslems, like Turks.
    By arms trade Iran have made vast corruptive network in Ukraina, the main arms source> you think that their brilliant and fast development of rockets and tech needed came out of thin air? They’ve simply repeated Iran Contra exercise, working for Americans, for their own benefit.
    We paid the price. What a sorrowful event.

    There was a short passage in some Al Quds Force veteran’s memoirs few weeks back that they were working through some moslem charity cover at the time. Official Iran intervened at once, saying that such a gross abuse of state funds is going to be examined. Hands washed. No news about that in Serbian media, no diplomatic follow up as much as I am informed about it. Maybe you got some hint?

    We, Serbs, have to stay cool, and (“The Dune”, a book, again) “never forget and never forgive”. We are not in position to fight, not yet, not soon. We have to be damn sure, each one of us, that we inhabit geostrategical fault line that runs from Ukraine to Balkans to Syria/Israel for times before written history, and not to be provoked. (By the way, I do not support present regime of usurpation in any way. But we are under occupation, surrounded by NATO – Bulgarians, Croats, Albanians, Bosniaks … and be sure that Hungary won’t wait long to intervene, in order to prevent loss of human live, in province of Vojvodina. These are facts. And I do not think that Peter AUS friend will fly over here to fight. He’ll get drunk with Peter AUS and go kill some camels.)

    In that regard … there is a something interesting in General Lerr’s (Commander of German air force that bombed Belgrade on Christian Orthodox Easter 1941) words on his trial in Belgrade, after the war. When confronted with almost 2000 civilian victims and vast destruction he said something like that: we managed to destroy all our targets, crippling your defense next to zero. When Americans bombed Belgrade on Christian Orthodox Easter 1944 they killed double that number, destroyed triple, and we lost several soldiers, two cannons and a tank. Who is a war criminal here?
    BTW, heaviest bombing in 1999 was on Christian Orthodox Easter.

    Now back to Iran. The main problem that Israel has with it is not Hisballah or Iran anti colonial principle as carrier of propaganda noise. After 2006. war, one that Saker and many others like to call a great victory, Hasan Nasrallah said that if he had known how Israel will react for 5 ambushed soldiers, they would have never tried to do that. Why? They were devastated by bombing. To continue too long and get irreparably ruined? All the others, already pissed off by Shia might, would turn on them. That’s Middle East, my friend, like it or not. Look at poor Syria! In 2000. Ehud Barack pulled troops out of Lebanon, partly to help near dying Hafiz al Assad to sign down peace (“Table with four legs”) contract. He refused. Why? Because the line was exactly the same as made in 1921. Problem was that it runs 10 meters to Syrian side from water level of Jordan, Lake Hula, and lake Kinneret (Galilean lake): an Arab ruler could not accept, in principle and in particular in case of Jews, to be GIVEN water. He did not want to sign colonial borders. Noble, ain’t it?

    The real problem is that Arabs still have produced not a single bolt to be part of any satellite. They are not dangerous to Israel in long term. Iran and Turkey are. Why Erdogan so desperately needs S400? Isaeli F35 bombings in Iraq are the most obvious answer. These two non-Arab regional powers, Iran in particular, are about to achieve economic “take off”.
    On the other hand, and that’s American trouble, both of these countries are of immense value for final Russian and Chinese goal: USA free Central Asia. Iran falls, Russian “soft belly” exposed and rare eaths of Afghanistan will be American, one way or the other, as well as what Escobar calls “Pipelistan”. And full middle and heavy oil supply control (Venezuela, anyone?) and oil price control in general. This world runs on oil, and China is short of it.

    That’s about real power play.

    Sorry I’ve used answer to you to give few hints to some noisy d…heads around here. Thanks Saker for interesting piece. Reasonable people read whatever statements come from Iran these days, looking for hits through propaganda. Logging off.

  92. Hossein says:

    The Saker should have asked this mouth piece of the Mullas about the terror that was and still being inflicted upon Iraqis who opposed Persian expansionism in their country.
    The terrorist militias that have brutalized the Iraqis are all trained and paid by brutal regime.
    And how about the thousands of executions, the forced hijab and forced migration of ethnic minorities and their replacement by settler Persians that resmeble Zionist ethnic programs in occupied Palestine?
    Not a whimper about that from the Saker. Nothing . nada.

    https://newsblaze.com/world/iran/iran-destroys-ahwaz-natural-disaster-as-ethnic-cleansing-tool_151293/

    • Replies: @FB
  93. Patricus says:
    @Prof. Woland

    There are quite a few Russians in America. There are probably some Jews but those I have met are Orthodox Christians or not religious. I find them to be agreeable people. The only flaw I see is that too many have an overly sour outlook on life. They call it “realism”. Maybe that developed from their difficult history.

    We hear from many in the media that Russians want to subvert our elections, or they are a dangerous threat. I have never met an American who supports these views. That’s our media which is not respected in the country. Russians are justified in their distrust over the troubles in Bosnia and Serbia. The Clinton administration made a mess of that while few Americans were paying attention. I hope Americans and Russians can become allies in time. We should have more in common. Some economic cooperation could benefit both sides.

    • Replies: @headrick
  94. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    It’s getting hard to keep track of these clowns…

    I was actually referring to ‘the totally anonymous’ pinhead in regards to my remark about his greenbeak Serb extremism…he claims to be descended from the ridiculous Karadjordjevic dynasty that was full of inbred euro aristocracy queers…which would explain his tendencies seen here…

    The ‘syd.bgd’ creature has nothing to do with Serbs or Serbia…full credit to our Potatohead Peter for disassembling his little impostor spiel…most likely an Iranian troll…

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  95. Republic says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Good news:

    http://www.unz.com/avltchek/suddenly-the-west-is-failing-to-overthrow-regimes

    suddenly-the-west-is-failing-to-overthrow-regimes

    It used to be done regularly and it worked: The West identified a country as its enemy, unleashed its professional propaganda against it, then administered a series of sanctions, starving and murdering children, the elderly and other vulnerable groups. If the country did not collapse within months or just couple of years, the bombing would begin. And the nation, totally shaken, in pain, and in disarray, would collapse like a house of cards, once the first NATO boots hit its ground.

    Such scenarios were re-enacted, again and again, from Yugoslavia to Iraq.

    But suddenly, something significant has happened. This horrific lawlessness, this chaos stopped; was deterred.

    • Replies: @Where-Wolf
  96. FB says: • Website
    @Hossein

    People might take you more seriously if you pointed to credible information sources instead of this NED-Soros mouthpiece…GET REAL…

  97. Moi says:
    @peterAUS

    Perspicacious and incisive 🙁

  98. @Republic

    Or else possibly..

    Globalists everywhere have perfected their charade, instituting once unimaginable Patriot Acts to their black-hearted delight, after each and every one of their manufactured crisis’ explodes into consciousness via media they control absolutely, because ruling elites of all nations follow the same policies and all use the same ideological technocrats, trained at the same schools, and appointed by the same Oligarchs, Financiers, Families and managed by Intelligence, because they are a class and have more in common with each other than they do with the people over which they preside.

    The world is a one party state, governed by not by just a specific class but also peculiarities of this distinct group’s psychic construction, and so sometimes they grab for each other’s pieces of the pie but mostly they find it easier to steal what is ours in close cooperation with each other almost all of the time.

    Since you already know that everything in media is a lie, what do you suppose is the purpose of that lie in the broadest sense? Is not setting up everyone against everyone the most useful explanation for what is occurring? Every now and then they turn down the volume on the TV just a tad so as to hit you with a triple volume blast to knock you off your couch when the real message appears.

    The Russians say it truthfully: these are our ‘partners.’ Evidence of a broad understanding, if not an outright agreement, between Globalists and themselves, is apparent wherever you wish to look.

    The best example is in Hong Kong and China, where Western supported regime changers are being marched mercilessly into conditions which will forever undermine all legitimate and illegitimate protests alike, from this historical moment on. US and UK elites are running an operation together not against China but on behalf of a segemt of the Chinese elite, including his Benevolence President for Life Xi Xinping, to discredit all those who would dare oppose local Masters of Globalization. The festivities were kicked off after Pompeo visited Beijing, then went directly to Hong Kong, which for some reason the Chinese government permitted

    All the evidence suggests this is an Occupy Operation, after which, and as with in the United States after Occupy, public opinion will be dead set against protest no matter what the reason.

    A equally plausible explanation for what is transpiring, don’t you agree?

  99. @peterAUS

    Thanks for linking that useful information about Iranian intervention in Bosnia during the 1990’s and the current Iranian presence in Bosnia.

    Considering Iran currently has media influence among Muslims in Bosnia, media presence usually translates into much more than just pro-Iranian opinion. Still, there will be no war or armed conflict in the Balkans in the future for at least the next 5-10 years, if not longer, since the USA/Empire is still too powerful in the region. So as I wrote to begin with, this is why Iran’s current presence in Bosnia is irrelevant as far as Serbs are concerned, as in the present, Iranians will be much more troubled by the USA and ISIS/Sunni terrorists than Serbs in their quest to be the dominant influence over Bosnian Muslims.

    Considering Iran and it’s international politics is the topic of this thread, the information you linked also has the value of being directly relevant to this thread.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  100. @syd.bgd

    You’re welcome for the information.

    Ignore these foreign imbecile commentators who don’t even understand the nonsense they write. Especially FB. Don’t let them provoke you. The garbage they spew can easily be debunked with a basic assessment of the relevant history, facts and statistics.

    Also, tone it down with the emotional panic and intensity of your writing. Even I struggle with this sometimes, but there’s no need for it. The disasters of our past history, besides informing foreigners when appropriate, should be only assessed and remembered so that they are not repeated in the future. The position of Serbia and Serbs currently is still difficult, but it is at the best it has ever been in the past 30 years. The worst from 1990-2010 has passed.

    Ignore all the dramatics about Vucic being a traitor and what not. It’s very far from clear as to whether he really is. It very much appears that he is a traitor in certain moments, but he is simply doing his best with Serbia’s difficult position. Vucic has silently shown his true character by not surrendering Kosovo after having many years of opportunity to do so.

  101. @FB

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/humane-hague/

    Unless you are brainwashed enough to not understand anything, you will see that the disasters of Serbian history in the 20th century come from the “virtues” of the Yugoslavism that you promote. I could rip apart your imbecile tier comments about things like “greenbeak Serb extremism”, but out of respect for the Saker, I’ll stop myself here to allow this thread to continue in the direction that it should.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @FB
  102. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    The Totally …

    FB expressed an opinion with which you disagree, and he is entitled to his opinion just like you are to yours. But I can bet you that if on his visits to old Yugoslavia he had shouted “F… Tito” or “F… Yugoslavia”, you yourself, or guys just like you, would have spat on him or beaten him up, while now you would be slapping him on the back and giving him the thumbs up. You can change your politics, your opinions, your views of history, your religion, and whatever else you wish to change like you change your underpants but you cannot change your character and mentality, or rather the flaws in them, which make of you cocksure quarrelsome cocky little prats. If you Serbs are so genetically intelligent and smart, then you, or your parents, would have well know at the time that Croatian communist Tito was taking you all for a ride and lying to you. And for Christ’s sake, why do you keep a crown on your flag when you’re not even a monarchy? Doesn’t it mean anything to you? And I bet you are the kind of guys who think that you can fuel a tank or load a gun with hate, malice and resentment when you march off to your wars. Yeah, that’ll take you far.

    Caveat: there are exceptions to every generalisation, but you don’t seem to be it.

    Seems like they took this vid off you tube. Hate speech rules, eh? “Hands off Yugoslavia”

  103. windwaves says:
    @alexander

    well said, very good points overall. I am wondering though how big really is that majority of American people who are against the establishment warmongers morons elite, if a majority at all.

    • Replies: @alexander
  104. alexander says:
    @windwaves

    Maybe we should ask them by taking a “national poll” ?

    – Do you think its “okay” for corrupt government officials and the big media “to deceive you into starting a war” ?

  105. @Commentator Mike

    There are some legitimate points in William Luther Pierce’s video, but out of respect for The Saker and some other posters here, I will defer myself from responding to the excrement that this imbecile wrote, as it would only irreversibly derail this thread. That is, of course, unless The Saker and some other posters should give me permission to do so for some reason.

  106. @someoneSomehwere

    “Iraq” is not a Farsi word. It comes from the word “Uruk”, which was an ancient Iraqi city-state. The fabled Gilgamesh was king and they worshiped primarily the goddess Inanna, as well as others from the ancient pantheon. In the Iraqi Arabic dialect, there are still very many words from the Sumerian and Akkadian languages. Probably the most famous example is “Shako Mako”, which means basically “What’s up” in English. It’s been ported to other Arabic dialects as “Shu Fi Ma Fi”, which means the same thing but is actual Arabic, whereas “Shako Mako” has no root in any language spoken in the area in modern times. Neither does “Iraq”.

    “Baghdad”, is from the Farsi language though.

    Sorry, I went off the rails with my explanation. I truly get off on this stuff. All hail Inanna!

    • Replies: @someoneSomehwere
  107. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    ….You can change your politics, your opinions, your views of history, your religion, and whatever else you wish to change like you change your underpants but you cannot change your character and mentality, or rather the flaws in them, which make of you cocksure quarrelsome cocky little prats….

    Don’t say…..

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  108. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ..Considering Iran currently has media influence among Muslims in Bosnia, media presence usually translates into much more than just pro-Iranian opinion

    ….Iran’s current presence in Bosnia is irrelevant as far as Serbs are concerned,

    Yeah…..

    …there will be no war or armed conflict in the Balkans in the future for at least the next 5-10 years, if not longer,…

    Yeah….

    Anyway, what’s your take: should “Republika Srpska” have its own armed forces?
    If not, should it at least have a strong paramilitary wing of the local police force?

    Oh, BTW, are you one of those youngish urban, cosmopolitan, Serbians from Serbia proper? Belgrade, for example. Never been in the military, let alone participated in “games’ in Bosnia in the nineties?
    Just curious. Sort of.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  109. FB says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You could ‘rip apart’ what…little prince…?

    Just make sure to hang on to grandma’s apron strings with at least one hand, while doing your ‘ripping’…

    btw…there’s a character ‘Pandour’ over on the other Saker thread who claims to be a Croat…and a former Spetznaz at that who saw a lot of ‘action’ in the Yugoslav wars…

    Why don’t you waltz over there and defend Serb honor…he’s been making a lot of anti-Serb noise there…

    But I understand if you decline…out of respect for the Flaker, of course…LOLOLOL

    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
  110. Talha says:

    no war or armed conflict in the Balkans in the future for at least the next 5-10 years, if not longer

    Definitely if – I don’t know – Albania or Bosnia invited and hosted a Turkish tripwire force. A little akin to what the Qataris have been doing lately since they got into a tiff with the Saudis in the area. A few thousand Turkish soldiers, including special forces and a couple of F-16 squadrons might do it:
    “According to recent reports in the Turkish media, however, the facility is on course to expand in October with the addition of an airbase and a military port. As a result, the Turkish contingent will grow into a brigade task force of about 2,000 soldiers, including army, air force, navy and special forces elements.”
    https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/08/turkey-qatar-military-cooperation-expand-with-air-naval.html

    Turkey might do it just for the privilege of having a second front against Greece in case that issue ever arises. This stuff should be done out in the open – publicly and legally.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  111. @Talha

    Talha,

    Now that Turkey is cooperating so closely with Russia, and that relations between Russia and Greece are at their lowest, I very much doubt that they’d be interested in stoking up any further trouble in the Balkans. The Russians will keep them on a tight leash, because if not, well … it won’t be pretty for the Turks.

    • Replies: @Talha
  112. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I very much doubt that they’d be interested in stoking up any further trouble in the Balkans.

    I’m not talking about stoking troubles. In fact, if the interview with the Serbian ambassador is to be believed, economic cooperation with Turkey is a policy goal:
    “The most important development is that we overpassed 1 billion euros in trade volume and the goal is to reach two billion euros soon. In Serbia, we have a need for construction companies to build highways and skyscrapers and Turkish companies are more experienced and much cheaper compared to the Western companies. Serbian companies are not big enough to do these by themselves so Turkish companies can be sub-contractors. I see many opportunities in many fields for cooperation.”
    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/cooperation-with-turkey-serbias-national-policy-envoy/1398182

    The tripwire force would be there for insurance purposes. Actually you only need one F-16 squadron (Serbian air force is a joke comparatively and is top-heavy with older [Yugoslavian-made] ground attack jets) and maybe 3,000-4,000 soldiers to make sure everyone knows it will not be a cakewalk to rearrange borders and it will hurt badly.

    Turkey is not really in a position for any kind of offensive posture vis-a-vis the Balkans – they aren’t the Ottomans of yesteryear and they are in NATO along with Greece. But they are quite in a position to put the hurt on anyone crossing borders that they aren’t supposed to in the region.

    Peace.

  113. @peterAUS

    Yaeh. Another one. Another pot simmering, or boiling. But I really wish the best for them all.

  114. peterAUS says:

    Yaeh. Another one. Another pot simmering, or boiling.

    Always.
    Well, there is, sometimes, a value in engaging with them.

    But I really wish the best for them all.

    You do? Haha…always a gentleman, a?

    You mean: “Croatia including Bosnia and Vojvodina”? Or “All Serbs in one land”? Careful now…hahaha…

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  115. anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:

    So many Jewish zionists Troll here. Get lost.

  116. @peterAUS

    For all ethnic problems everywhere, from the Kurds to whoever, I favour a Swiss type of approach. And larger blocks where possible. But then we know what “balkanisation” as a process implies and where the term originated. But I definitely don’t favour any Islamic states on European soil … but with a reservation on that last statement. If, in the long term, it becomes a struggle between a far more extreme version of ZioGloboHomo, sort of far further down the slippery slope where Europe is heading , and some form of Islam, as the only two alternatives, then I’d seriously have to reconsider my position.

  117. @peterAUS

    Anyway, what’s your take: should “Republika Srpska” have its own armed forces?
    If not, should it at least have a strong paramilitary wing of the local police force?

    Republika Srpska absolutely should, and ideally would have its own army, but unfortunately, it doesn’t. Of course, a strong paramilitary wing of the police force would also be great, because in Bosnia, armies can easily be made out of police forces. It is unfortunate that Milorad Dodik failed to make a reservist police force of 2,000 men earlier this year, as he was pressured to back down by the US ambassador in Bosnia, and FBiH (Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina) threatened to make its own counter force numbering 6,000-7,000. Still, my opinion is that before anything in Bosnia can be favorably solved, the Serbian Army must first return to Kosovo and secure the well-being of the Serbian population there. Also, of course, justice needs to be delivered to the Albanians on Kosovo before anything else is sorted out.

    I may be personally biased in this sense, as the family of one of my parents had to flee (or can be interpreted as being ethnically cleansed) from Kosovo (surroundings of Prizren) to Belgrade in the 1960’s (When Aleksander Rankovic fell from power, it meant the government would not intervene for political reasons), because a few Albanian tribes got together and declared a Besa (Blood Oath) to kill them all, since that is just standard Shiptar behavior …

    As far as Bosnia is concerned, as an absolute minimum, the ideal solution is for Republika Srpska and Serbia to merge into one. However, I do not see any scenario in which this can become geo-politically possible until Kosovo is firmly secured as a part of Serbia. Of course, this can only be achieved through the Serbian Army returning to Kosovo. This will take time to achieve. Hence why I stated nothing will change in the Balkans for at least the next 5-10 years, possibly longer. Given some of your comments, you seem to think otherwise.

    Oh, BTW, are you one of those youngish urban, cosmopolitan, Serbians from Serbia proper? Belgrade, for example. Never been in the military, let alone participated in “games’ in Bosnia in the nineties?

    Technically I am, because I was born in the 1990’s, which means I was too young to participate in anything.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  118. dickr says:

    South African Apartheid is not a template for Israel’s domestic policies. Anyone who sez that does not understand the original purpose of Apartheid, which was not black discrimination but restoration of Afrikaner political and cultural sovereignty. In fact the biggest enemy of Apartheid South Africa was organised jewry, mainl b/c in the long term Afrikaners threatened their illicit mining interests since Afrikaners also wanted their mineral rights restored. Mirandi obviously is ignorant of this and uses Apartheid as a propaganda weapon

  119. Talha,

    It’s fluid all around but quite static in the Balkans. We’d have to wait and see. Considering that US, EU, and NATO don’t favour Turkey much, especially since it has partly realigned itself with Russia, I doubt they’d allow any Turkish military presence in Bosnia.

    I’d prefer to see a greater diplomatic effort by Turkey in stabilising the region and acting to rein in some of the more stubborn of the Muslims there, especially under pressure from Russia; for example to get the Kosovars and Bosnians to round up, disband, expel, and suppress the more extreme local and foreign Al Qaida and ISIS cells (they’d probably claim that they’re doing that already but there’s a lot more to be done), to make some concessions to Serbian legitimate interests in the muslim dominated areas, and not just economic cooperation. I don’t have solid and reliable information on the ground from there, but I suspect that there is a strong Gulenist current in the Muslim areas, including in the southern Serbian regions, especially in the education sector like the schools and universities. This is something that has to be investigated and exposed, especially as the Gulenists also secretly act as a conduit for CIA operations. Turkey could do a lot by exposing any Gulenists and their activities there and urging the authorities in the region to suppress them too. I very much doubt that Serbian authorities for example, not to mention Bosnian or Kosovar, have done enough on the anti-Gulenist front or are even aware of the extent of its presence there. Definitely this is something that Serbia could do to get onto even better terms with Erdogan and in turn demand that Erdogan put more pressure on Bosnians and Kosovars for whatever Serbia’s interests. Putin and Erdogan won’t live forever and we don’t know who will follow them in their countries respectively or what policies they’ll implement. So now is the best time for any smart Serbians in the government and intelligence community, if there are any such, to make use of them both to further their own interests as much as possible. But I doubt it, they probably seek more to appease the globo and homo spreading and infiltrating degenerate West than get on Erdogan’s and Putin’s good side against such influences too. Yes I know some will point to some evidence of the contrary, like Russia’s supply of weaponry, but still … a lot more could be done.

    • Replies: @Talha
  120. FB says: • Website

    @ Commentator Mike…

    The problem with your take is that you ignore the deep state role in ISIS and al Qaida and similar such groups operating anywhere that a destabilization is desired…

    This deep state, which consists of the intel services of the major western powers, was able to muster a Jihadist army of 250,000 for the intended overthrow of Syria…the logistics alone for this exclude the possibility that these Jihadist outfits managed this on their own…

    Never mind the prima facie evidence of huge caches of sophisticated US and western weaponry and radio gear seized by the SAA in Syria…they don’t give this stuff out like jellybeans…

    Or the case of the white helmets, clearly established by the UK intel…

    Why do you think it is that these scumbags were pulled out of the Douma area after its liberation, via a huge effort by the western powers…they have even been settled in Canada and Europe…[notice the US didn’t want to take them…

    The international narcotics business is the income source for these off-the-books operations of training, equipping and inserting this huge ‘terrorist’ army…which is in fact a mercenary army, since most fighters sign up for the paycheck and not for religious reasons…

    A recent Vesti news segment aired an interview with a Russian Jihadist captured in Syria…he was university educated and worked as a financial analyst…but the much bigger pay on offer as a merc for the global terror army lured him in…says it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION…STRICTLY MONEY…

    What kind of entity do you think is capable if organizing a mercenary army on the scale of hundreds of thousands of fighters…sure there are rich patrons in KSA and other gulf states…but their capability stops at suitcases of cash…it takes a lot more than that to actually deploy an army…

    Back in the day one of the guys I loved listening to was a 747 captain for a major Asian airline…he got his start by getting hired by Air America during the Vietnam era…pilots like him were just bus drivers who were told nothing…but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what they were moving out of the jungles of Laos…

    Btw anyone that doesn’t know that Air America was the CIA airline needs to brush up on basic facts of life…

    Today we see these facts if life…Kosovo is the major narco mafia hub fir Europe…it is also the biggest supplier of ISIS fighters in Europe, according to none other than the NYT…

    Camp Bondsteel is conveniently placed right there…

    It is supremely ironic, at least for the unintelligent, that we are fighting a global ‘war against terrorism…’

    That’s a remarkably clever cover story, and seems to be working like charm on the dumbshit sheeple…

    You see back in the day when the British were running the opium trade [growing it in India]…there was no need fir a cover story…life was much simpler then…when the Chinese said no to opium and demanded payment in silver for their tea, silk and porcelain…it was a simple natter of bringing them to heel by means of military force…

    Nothing much has changed except the brainwashing of the masses…

    So talking about Kosovo and Muslims etc, without putting into this real life context us actually quite meaningless…

    • Agree: DESERT FOX, bluedog
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  121. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I doubt they’d allow any Turkish military presence in Bosnia.

    It’s not necessarily their call. Bosnia and Albania are sovereign nations. If Syria can invite Russia and South Korea can invite the US as insurance tripwire forces, so can those two countries. Sure, maybe they could pressure them politically, but then those two would have to simply make a cost/benefit analysis.

    I’d prefer to see a greater diplomatic effort by Turkey in stabilising the region and acting to rein in some of the more stubborn of the Muslims there

    Same here and having boots on the ground would mean they had more skin in the game to do so.

    round up, disband, expel, and suppress the more extreme local and foreign Al Qaida and ISIS cells (they’d probably claim that they’re doing that already but there’s a lot more to be done)

    I traveled through that area in the early 2000’s – my wife was working for a relief agency in the area dealing with victims of war and trauma. It was about as developed as parts of Pakistan, even Pristina looked like it was trying to look good, but didn’t know how to put on makeup the right way. I don’t think they have the capacity to go after these groups in a serious way. And I don’t think it will be a major priority for them unless their security concerns are taking care of. These extremists can come in handy if it comes down to a fight.

    Now, if a Turkish contingent was settled in and basically guaranteed that there was no reason to worry about a new war, then it would be in both the Turk’s and the Bosnian’s interest to get rid of these guys as a major liability.

    This is something that has to be investigated and exposed, especially as the Gulenists also secretly act as a conduit for CIA operations.

    Yeah, I’m not sure as to the extent of their influence, but I’m sure Turkey wouldn’t mind helping nail those guys.

    So now is the best time for any smart Serbians in the government and intelligence community, if there are any such, to make use of them both to further their own interests as much as possible.

    I agree; make hay while the sun shines. The fact that Turkey and Russia may actually be on the same page with regards to policy in that area may be an opportunity that comes around once in a century.

    appease the globo and homo spreading and infiltrating degenerate West

    Well…they did kind of elect their first female and openly gay PM, so there’s that.

    Peace.

  122. @FB

    True. And Turkey itself has been heavily involved with that as Jihadis were going to and fro through its borders, as well as allowing them to sell stolen oil and smuggle weapons. It’s just my hope that the new partnership between Putin and Erdogan may help in suppressing them. But I have my doubts that anybody, even Putin, would want to totally wipe out the jihadis. They all like to make use of them for whatever purposes and keep them in cold storage to pull out when they feel they need them, even just for target practice and giving themselves publicity about how well they’re doing in their fight against the terrorists. But then someone should hold them to their word when they spew their bullshit about fighting terrorism. Like you and others always go on about upholding international law which I’m very skeptical about.

  123. FB says: • Website

    I would say it’s ridiculous that Putin and the Russians are in on this global terror army run by the deep state…

    This western manufactured terror army, recruited from all corners of the globe has been used against Russia for years…starting in Afghanistan, then later Chechnya…Putin himself is on record as saying publicly that the CIA supported the Chechen terrorists directly…

    The Russians are no fools and they deploy an intel apparatus that is as capable as any…their soft central Asian underbelly is the long term target of what has been initiated in Syria…

    Another target now is China and its BRI, which could in fact supplant the entire Bretton-Woods global financial order…this is an existential threat to the globohomo empire…

    That’s why we see neighboring countries like Bangladesh, Myanmar, Philippines and others suddenly rocked by ISIS attacks…how convenient…?

    Yes the Turks were in on the scheme in regards Syria, along with MIT, their own intel agency…but things changed when the US stabbed them in the back with the Kurds…an existential issue for the Turks…

    Pakis were in on it too in Afghanistan…again until they were backstabbed with that same western-backed terrorism…hence the subsequent deep rift with the US…

    Malaysia…Thailand…all BRI partners suddenly kicking out US puppet regimes…the globohomo empire needs the Jihadist merc army in its toolbox more than ever…

    That’s why the ‘war on terror’ spiel is so effective…ISIS springs up like an overnight mushroom in any such far flung corner…and this is presented to the sheeple as a ‘reason’ to continue the ‘fight’.. LOL

    It’s like the famous perpetual motion machine that defies the laws of physics…

    Only the deep state terror army *slash* war on terror defies the laws of common sense…

  124. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    …I stated nothing will change in the Balkans for at least the next 5-10 years, possibly longer. Given some of your comments, you seem to think otherwise…

    I do.

    Most likely not in Serb favor. Especially those in Bosnia.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  125. peterAUS says:

    I see people here favoring the return of the Turks into Bosnia.

    No offense guys but is’t just…….c…..r……a…..z….y……..

    Disclaimer: depends, of course, which side you are on.

    Why don’t you ask Serbs and Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina how they feel about the idea? Be careful……

    • Replies: @Talha
  126. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    I see people here favoring the return of the Turks into Bosnia.

    And I see people favoring secession of Srpska into Serbia.

    Which I don’t necessarily think is a bad thing in the long run; maybe land swaps can be figured out, maybe Kosovo, populations moved around – lots can be negotiated. Happened eventually with Armenia and Azerbaijan too. Just do it publicly, openly and by the book.

    If the ruling party in Syria can ask the Russians and Iranians to come in and help keep their territorial integrity, I don’t see why Bosnia can’t either.

    The Turks would simply be there to ensure things are done diplomatically and people decide not to take it to arms against the central government, otherwise…well, they are getting rid of their Cobras and SuperCobras, so I don’t think Bosnia would mind getting their hands on those to even things out.

    If I was on the Muslim side in Bosnia, which is pretty outgunned by the Serbian side (if Serbia decides to jump in), I’d readily outsource my defense to the Turks. They can easily spare 3,000 guys plus a few retiring helicopters, an F-16 squadron. Heck, maybe they can come up with a Foreign Legion unit like the French have; manned by Turkish-speaking Balkan folks and integrated into Turkish command and control. Over all, that would be a cheaper and much more effective defense force than having to do everything yourself and you could do it with less boots. Wouldn’t really be enough for any offense, but man would it make anyone think twice about invading or taking the sovereignty issue into the artillery range.

    Ultimately it’s up to them, but seems way better than this Mickey Mouse secret nonsense with Iran or anyone else. Just make it up front and center.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  127. peterAUS says:
    @Talha

    … see people favoring secession of Srpska into Serbia….

    Integration, not secession.
    And Herzeg-Bosna into Croatia, of course.

    ….The Turks would simply be there to ensure things are done diplomatically…..

    Hahaha…..sorry.

    … and people decide not to take it to arms against the central government..

    Naturally. The government controlled, as we speak by….it’s O.K.

    …If I was on the Muslim side in Bosnia, which is pretty outgunned by the Serbian side (if Serbia decides to jump in), I’d readily outsource my defense to the Turks.

    Haha….yeah….
    Add a bit of the rest of Islamic world, as the last time, and you guys are set. Good plan.

    Tell you what: why don’t you ask Serbs and Croats from Bosnia about their thoughts and feelings about all that? Say….walk into one of their pubs where you live and ask them.
    Enjoy….

    • Replies: @Talha
  128. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    Integration, not secession.

    Sure, depends on one’s perspective. Just like Kurds in Iraq and Turkey want to integrate into a Kurdish homeland.

    Hahaha…..sorry.

    Well, they certainly wouldn’t come unarmed – that’s the whole point of a tripwire force. If push comes to shove, they will shove – hard. So the other side has to decide how they want to proceed; do they want to talk to a suit and tie across a table or this guy:

    Add a bit of the rest of Islamic world, as the last time, and you guys are set. Good plan.

    Well, what’s the point of calling yourself an Ummah if you’re not willing to bleed a little about it to let people know you are serious?

    Again, I’m not really interested in anything other than preserving borders or at least making sure any secession is negotiated and done nicely like the Czech-Slovakia split and nobody tries to grab extra territory because they happen to be the only ones with a few extra MiGs lying around.

    why don’t you ask Serbs and Croats from Bosnia about their thoughts and feelings about all that?

    There is actually a Croatian community not too far. If I come across one of them, I might actually pose the question. Not in a pub of course – alcohol makes people do stupid things.

    So…let’s see here…ah yes, what if the majority of Kosovo wants to “integrate” with Albania being a majority Albanian enclave – that’s OK right? What if you walked into an Albanian dive and proposed “integration” with Serbia to them? See how that works?

    Peace.

  129. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Nice skit on the Balkans:

    Peace.

  130. peterAUS says:
    @Talha

    ….making sure any secession is negotiated and done nicely like the Czech-Slovakia split and nobody tries to grab extra territory …….

    You want Serbs, Croats and Muslims, in Bosnia and Herezegovina, to behave as Czechs and Slovaks !?!
    C………….r………..a…………..z……………y.

    I’d like Turkish troops in Bosnia…hehe…maybe even more than you do.
    Make of that what you will.

  131. Talha says:

    to behave as Czechs and Slovaks !?!

    Of course not – I want them to be forced to the table to act like Czechs and Solvaks by the presence of someone else bigger than them – that’s the whole point.

    I’d like Turkish troops in Bosnia…hehe…maybe even more than you do.

    Sure thing, the Turks don’t mind a tussle once in a while and they aren’t as casualty-shy as many other armies. Everything has a price, it’s a cost/benefit analysis, if people are willing to throw down, what’s their pain tolerance? Another question for populations whose demographics are in terminal decline; is it in your long term interests to have your young, fertile men get tossed into a meat grinder?

    I guess it’s up to the Bosnians and Turks how far they want to take that relationship. I do know that when Erdogan met with the Croatian president, they both said Dayton was a rushed product and needs to be revised – and I would agree.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  132. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Soviet Russia did interfere and occupy Iran. Iran and Russia are now more inclined than before to be on friendly terms because of the threat from USA .
    Russia has been working in tandem with USA until lately as far as Iranian situation is concerned . Russia was expecting that the cooperative mood would lessen the pressure on him . It didn’t . Russia sees Iran as a means to get what it wants from USA . Russia could have stopped sanctions on Iran on many occasions .
    Iran possibly would have done so if it were powerful and big .

    Azeri isn’t Iranian . Neither Chechen and Dagestan are Russian . It doesn’t mean tomorrow Spain or Iraq or USA would lay claim and severe it from Russia .

    • Replies: @Monty Ahwazi
  133. peterAUS says:
    @Talha

    ….it’s up to the Bosnians and Turks how far they want to take that relationship….

    Sorry, becoming boring.
    Moving on.

    • Replies: @Talha
  134. @Rod T

    Rod,
    Yes. Dr Marandi was interviewed by the NPR couple of months ago if the NPR can be considered a member of the MSM!

  135. @Anon

    Very true! Russia and UK or the mother of all evils have been pretty nasty in regards to Iran over the History. Stalin and Churchill were going devise Iran into North and South regions. Many thanks to FDR who told both of them to go and fuck themselves!

  136. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    Sure thing, something that important is not going to be decided over discussions on an anonymous Internet forum.
    https://m.yenisafak.com/en/news/turkey-bosnia-agree-to-enhance-defense-ties-3435522

    Peace.

  137. @peterAUS

    I’m very interested to learn about your predictions of an upcoming future war or other balance of power change in the Balkans and Bosnia during the next 5-10 years. Although maybe you should save that for some other more relevant thread in the future.

    If you’re correct, all I can state is that it won’t be Serbs that will start any of that given present circumstances, just like Serbs didn’t start all the wars in the 1990’s, contrary to international media propaganda. Also, in the event of another war:

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  138. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    I’m very interested to learn about your predictions of an upcoming future war or other balance of power change in the Balkans and Bosnia during the next 5-10 years. Although maybe you should save that for some other more relevant thread in the future.

    Fair question, and no need to delay a very simple answer:

    All that hinges on one thing and one thing only: the power of US military do deploy a credible conventional power into the region. For how long, from now, that’s gonna be the case is anybody’s guess. Year, 3 years, 5, 7, 10, 15…20?!?
    As soon as that power isn’t credible anymore there, the players will start to resolve the issues remained from the last round. How will that pan out….depends.
    Which brings us to that video.

    Not wishing to get into “Balkans flame wars” here, I really think you guys should change a LOT of things if you want to be efficient enough the next time.

    Which things… I’d leave that to your people.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  139. @Talha

    Talha,

    That one would look good in a movie, but IRL? There’s a good Turkish series and several movies under the franchise “Valley of the Wolves” all about secret societies, crime bosses, special forces, intelligence agencies that run Turkey. They made one set in Israel, but filmed elsewhere of course, where this special forces type Turk takes on the IDF like a Rambo and slaughters the Jews all over the place. Great to cheer to but no chance of it happening.

    • Replies: @Talha
  140. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    A military contingent in Bosnia of Turks is quite possible, it depends on the willingness of the Bosnians. As I showed, they are already discussing expansion of military ties. The Turks have been, for the last few years, expanding their overseas contingents. I mentioned Qatar and they are also in Somalia training soldiers there in their biggest overseas military base. All legal, all from the cooperation of the Somalis:

    So this is not something that is completely unimaginable; maybe it was three decades ago. But Turkey has been increasing its military ties in the Muslim world, whether that is setting up a military industrial complex cooperative with nations like Pakistan or Indonesia or building overseas military bases in friendly countries.

    It makes sense from a local perspective; for centuries the most effective defense many of these places had was with Turkish commanders and officers and local auxiliaries. And Turkey is a modern army with modern equipment that these guys can train with. Now if they could only borrow a couple of German officers for old times sake…

    This is all a relatively recent development so time will tell. And one major component of it has definitely been the export of Turkish movies and shows in a relatively successful publicity campaign. Shows like Ertugrul are extremely popular in the Muslim world.

    Peace.

  141. headrick says:
    @Patricus

    USSR: Living with the reality of socialism, letting the elite party cronies run thing in the name of the working class yet!, and not being allowed to say much in public, being forced to accept the graceless “ant -farm” view of the socialist “replacement religion”,
    hell I would be sour too. Maybe the US will get it’s turn in the stocks.

  142. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    You agree?
    That’s interesting.

    So, if you were, say, “somebody” on the Serb side, what would you change/do differently from the last time?

    Or, what were the mistakes your side made the last time; how would you do it the next?

    In broad terms, of course. And, naturally, you don’t need to spell everything here. In this game, some things are best left unsaid.
    Especially in a place like this.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  143. @someoneSomehwere

    China would never do it, unless truly provoked.

    I would love to have the U$A out of our back pockets, because their influence has also produced a similar fetishization of our military. Imagine: a country proud that its armed forces are mere mercenaries.

  144. @alexander

    If what you say is true, then Tulsi Gabbard would be polling a lot higher than 3%.

    • Replies: @alexander
  145. @peterAUS

    So, if you were, say, “somebody” on the Serb side, what would you change/do differently from the last time?

    Or, what were the mistakes your side made the last time; how would you do it the next?

    Well there were two overall major mistakes in general that Serbs as a collective made in the 1990’s.

    1: The first major mistake was the political and military decisions made by Slobodan Milosevic from 1990-1992. The greatest of these bad decisions was Slobodan Milosevic’s decision to send the JNA into Krajina in 1991 along Serb ethnic boundaries where he hoped the world would recognize the new borders. Instead, once it became clear to him that this would not work, he wimped out and withdrew the JNA east of the river Drina from both Krajina and Bosnia in 1992.

    So, instead of withdrawing the JNA east of the river Drina, from the start, Milosevic should’ve instead sent the JNA into Zagreb and Ljubljana (completely possible as demonstrated by the success at Vukovar) to force the Croats and Slovenes to capitulate and then draw a border favorable to Serbs with a released Slovenia and a Croatia released only along the Zagreb-Varazdin line (geo-political necessities). Considering that Serbs had overwhelming military capabilities at the start, it was only logical that those capabilities should’ve actually been used. Really, the moment that Milosevic withdrew the JNA to the east side of the river Drina in 1992, everything after that was basically a lost cause with a completely inevitable and predictable outcome. Considering that even though the JNA leadership was full of ethnic Serbs, they were all either complete traitors or brainwashed imbeciles who engaged in reckless and petty political opportunism from 1990-1992, so the Yugoslav wars were arguably all a lost cause to begin with, even before 1992.

    So, given the circumstances from 1993-1999, I don’t think there is much that Serbs could’ve done better from a military-political perspective. Especially nothing could’ve been done in 1999, as even though Serbs won the Battles of Kosare and Pastrik, the NATO bombing of civilians and infrastructure was just too devastating (especially depleted uranium bombs that still poison and kill thousands in Serbia to this day). In 1999, just like in 1389, I don’t see what Milosevic, like Knjaz Lazar, could’ve done differently. Both scenarios are similar, as the 1389 Battle of Kosovo Field, like the 1999 Battles of Kosare and Pastrik, were clear Serb tactical victories, but long term strategic or geo-political defeats (so, Pyrrhic victories) due to the damage done to Serbian civilian and economic reserves (Turks killed all the Serbian manpower in 1389, while NATO destroyed the Serbian economy and infrastructure in 1999). In fact, I think Serbs did very will (especially in Bosnia) given the extremely bad situation from 1993-1999 and blatantly relentless NATO terrorism in 1995 and 1999. As a side-note, it is more accurate to refer to NATO as the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization.

    Anyway, Milosevic made other bad decisions. In fact, there is the little known and arguably treasonous Erdut Agreement from 1995-1997 where Milosevic literally surrendered ethnic Serb land (West Baranja and West Srem) hard won with blood at the Battle of Vukovar to Tudjman and the Croats. Of course, “Operations” (In quotation marks, since Serbs could not effectively resist any of the “operations” that the mentally ill Croats are proud of, meaning that their operations were purely massacres and ethnic cleansing which they boastfully present to the world as military actions) Flash (A small practice run of what Storm would look like) and Storm (Literally 37,000 Serb soldiers v 215,000 Croats soldiers) also only succeeded because Milosevic allowed them to (On the night before Storm began, RSK general Milisav Sekulic literally phoned Milosevic for help, but Milosevic told him to go kill himself) and the JNA leadership was deliberately forbidden from reacting to help the RSK (Republic of Serb Krajina), even though the JNA was the only hope that the Krajina Serbs had. Finally, there is Milosevic betraying Republika Srpska by placing sanctions on it in order to force Serbs in Bosnia to accept an unfavorable territorial arrangement at the 1995 Dayton agreements, even though Republika Srpska could’ve easily gotten much more territory than it ended up with. This act led to most of Sarajevo (contrary to Muslim hoaxes and bullshit, Serbs were the biggest victims around Sarajevo) and half the Bosanska Krajina being lost with at least 150,000 Serbs, if not more, being ethnically cleansed from their homes in these areas.

    Of course, as easy as it is to forget about them, the Slovenian whores should’ve been fiercely punished for their separatism as they began the Yugoslav Wars, but they got off the easiest out of everyone. This was despite the Slovenian Territorial Guard terrorist scum massacring helpless 18 year old Serb JNA conscripts after they surrendered (most infamously at Holmec). The 18 year old Serb conscripts were recklessly/treacherously sent without any ammunition to fight not only Slovenian terrorist scum, but were also shot at across the border by the Austrian Army as part of a clearly well planned conspiracy in advance. The only redeeming moment was when a JNA division of legends from Banja Luka captured hundreds of Slovenian terrorists and paraded the Slovenian cucks naked all over Slovenia for the world to see (unfortunately ignored by international media for obvious reasons).

    Still, the Slovenians simply should not have been allowed to get out so easily without any consequences. If justice is to ever be achieved in the future, the Slovenians will have to be fiercely punished. It would only be appropriate to punish the Slovenians as well, since the Slovenian scum Marko Natlacen was the one who coined the phrase “Srbe na Vrbe” (Hang the Serbs from Willow trees) in 1914, which Slovenes, Croats and Muslims would all go on to do in WW1 and later in the 20th century. If the chance comes, it would only be appropriate and necessary for Serbs to give Slovenia the kind of treatment that the Red Army gave East Germany in 1945. Especially with the de-industrialization part, as Slovenia’s current prosperity and wealth is built off the back of stolen Serb industry and infrastructure that the Slovenians and Croats took from Serbia during Communist Yugoslavia under the leadership of Tito and Kardelj. Of course, this may appear ridiculous to some, but anyone who truly knows anything about Communist Yugoslavia will know that the whole thing was rigged against Serbs (especially the AVNOJ borders) even before WW2 was over, and that it can best be described as a form of Croat-Slovenian and Jewish (Jews lost influence after 1960, since nearly all of them emigrated to Israel by then) occupation over Serbs …

    2: The second mistake was being extremely tolerant and merciful towards the civilian population of hostile ethnic and religious groups. In fact, this humaneness even went so far as to treat literal terrorist scum (in the case of UCK prisoners of war especially) above and beyond the standards of international humanitarian law. Especially this was a massive mistake, and the rare justice delivered at Ovcara field should’ve been repeated at least 6 million more times to all other enemies when appropriate. I should also add that as much as the whole Srebrenica 1995 thing was staged by international actors so they could get away with “Operation” Storm and Operation Deliberate Force, it was very much an act of justice against criminal Muslim terrorists, not genocide (It’s well known that civilians were spared). Of course, there were some minor exceptions to this mercy and humaneness in Bosnia, where Serbs engaged in some defensive ethnic cleansing against Muslims (even then, Serbs tolerated the existence of Muslim civilians in places such as Bijeljina and Srebrenica during the war. They still live there, in Republika Srpska, to this day), and paramilitary types like Arkan Raznatovic simply took the opportunity to mass loot among other things. Also, something that is very little known, but in 1992, the Serbs saved thousands of Croat civilians around Kupres Gate in Bosnia from being ethnically cleansed by Muslims and sent them to Croatia, instead of leaving them to be ripped apart by the Muslims (Of all people, I learnt this from a Bosnian Croat acquaintance), since clearly with hindsight, the Croats rewarded the Serbs for this with their many wonderful “Operations”, most especially Storm …

    From any honest assessment that takes facts into account, it’s very clear that Serbs were ridiculously tolerant and merciful to the civilian populations of their enemies compared to the other way around (especially Croats). This is, of course, the absolute truth regardless of all the international media propaganda. Arguably, if you are going to be accused of genocide and other monstrosities, and the whole world will believe it anyway, even though 99% of it is false, you may as well have actually done what you’re accused of to at least get the benefits of having favorable ethno-demographic facts on the ground. Now though, Serbs have the worst of both worlds where they have very unfavorable demographic facts in Kosovo, Bosnia, and especially Krajina, and most of the world also believes all the propaganda lies about us …

    Since you seem to be most interested in this matter, I’m honestly not entirely sure what to answer you with. This is partly out of moral reasons and partly because I haven’t entirely made up my mind on this matter. What is for certain, is that in the future, the ethno-demographic facts must be improved in Kosovo, Bosnia, and hopefully if possible, Krajina. How exactly this should be done, I’m not entirely certain. What I do know, is that as much as Serbs have low birthrates (with the notable exception of Serbs on Kosovo who have had birth rates above 2.1 from 2005, while Shiptars have had birth rates below 2.1 since then), all those hostile ethnic groups also have low birthrates, and their overall numbers are smaller than Serbs, which makes it theoretically possible (certainly so for Kosovo) that Serbs can demographically, along with political-military means, retake everything that’s been lost and stolen without needing to do anything immoral (I’m personally becoming more fond of reciprocal justice, and that doing exactly everything, or in proportion, each hostile ethno-religious group did to us, and nothing more, would be completely moral), or at least not excessively so …

  146. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    From

    …..Well there were two overall major mistakes….

    to

    ….and most of the world also believes all the propaganda lies about us …

    simply….. impressive….
    The last paragraph not bad either.

    BTW, you sure that was Sekulic and not Martic ? Anyway….

    Since you seem to be most interested in this matter, I’m honestly not entirely sure what to answer you with.

    Well, you’ve definitely answered all my questions and more. Better than I hoped, actually.
    Much appreciated.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  147. @jiri

    Bagh- Garden
    Dad- God

    I see no gift.

  148. @Disturbed_robot

    I meant Iraq as modern Uruk- which meant The Plains in old Farsi- a reference of the mountain folks

    Anyways, thanks a bunch for your reply. This era fascinates me as well. An interesting nugget of information- Badakhshan Afghanistan’s tin mines sorta powered the Bronze age. So I think regional folks were mingling long before they learnt to write things down.

  149. alexander says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Au contraire,

    If what I say is true , it is “impossible” for Tulsi Gabbard to poll higher than 3% because all the polls are tightly controlled by the corrupt DNC establishment and their lying corporate media.

    Our polling system is designed to “inform” the American People which nominee the “establishment” approves of, not the one Americans “like”.

    Just the fact they have “lie us into war, 22 trillion debt” Joe Biden… polling in the “top slot”…is a total farce.

    Nobody is voting for that guy.

    Nobody.

    Don’t get me wrong, Americans don’t begrudge our “ruling class” for being our “ruling class”….They begrudge our ruling class for lying us into illegal war and bankrupting the nation.

    Who can blame them ?.

    Why should American taxpayers be on the hook for 22 trillion in heinous debt ,because our “establishment elite” lied us into (illegal) war ?

    The answer is…They shouldn’t….it makes no sense.

    I would say that ,at least, 70% of the American people feel this way today.

    They are disgusted and outraged with the deceits of our elites.

    It is precisely “because” Tulsi Gabbard stands with the American People, that the corrupt establishment will do all in its power to oust her from the campaign.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  150. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    I agree the Slovenes should have been hit hard right at the start as they started the ball rolling there, but I can’t see how you will punish them for their chauvinistic and cowardly behaviour like shooting JNA soldiers in the back without any warning or reason.

    I think Milosevic couldn’t have done much better; he was betrayed by others above him, like Boris Yeltsin, and many more below him.

    Hats off to the Serbian lads who fought off a joint force of Kosovar terrorist units, Albanian regular army, and NATO US forces at Kosare and Pastrik. Never mind any denials that there were no non-Albanian origin US troops killed and wounded there; there must have been, as some were even captured infiltrating into Kosovo even before those battles, if I am not mistaken. Although in the end it was all for nothing, other than showing that they could hold their own while being vastly outnumbered by this joint enemy force and also being simultaneously pounded from the air by NATO’s air force.

    I would also add that all those Serbian war criminals, or heroes, however you see them, from Milosevic to Captain Dragan, should have all gone to Russia and asked for political asylum there, instead of thinking they could hide in Serbia, South America, Australia, or wherever else. Since Russia did very little to help the Serbian war effort they should have then put the onus on Russia to extradite them to De Hague from its own territory instead of expecting anything but to be betrayed by the CIA backed new Serbian government installed after the 5th October colour revolution. They would have done a far greater service to the Serbian cause publicising their plight, and that of their people, in the Russian media and society. But then I feel most of them were really just opportunists with no clear vision or insight, with some notable exceptions no doubt.

    Some former JNA and Serbian military did continue their war against US, NATO and their lackeys elsewhere, like in Libya and Syria on the side of Gaddafi and Assad, but you won’t hear much about their exploits, and the new Serbian authorities surely find it embarrassing and would hardly allow stories of courage of Serbian warriors on those fronts to seeps into the media.

    Simply put, Serbian media, private security agencies, and the telecom industry are in the hands of the CIA and other western interests. General Petreus, former chief of the CIA, owns telecom and TV companies in Serbia, a former US ambassador owns the largest private security company, German media groups own major newspapers, and so on and so forth… and so it goes.

  151. @peterAUS

    simply….. impressive….
    The last paragraph not bad either.

    Are you implying that Serbs could’ve better fought against all the propaganda lies spread about them in the 1990’s? Or, are you implying that all those propaganda lies about Serbs are really true and that i’m in denial?

    It would be pretty lame and annoying if you’re suggesting the latter, since dealing with “international community” scum that seriously rant with their mouths full of that propaganda is irritating, to say the least …

    BTW, you sure that was Sekulic and not Martic ? Anyway….

    My bad. You are correct. It was Milan Martic who phoned Milosevic for help, but Milosevic literally told him, and all the Krajina Serbs as a group (forgot to clarify this), to kill themselves. I only mentioned General Milisav Sekulic since he was the effective military leader in Krajina from 1991-1995 while Milan Martic was only a political spokesmen. Also, I only learnt about this from a 3 hour interview that the good General Milisav Sekulic gave to a Serbian alternative media channel on YouTube. The good General also has a whole book openly published and available in Serbia called, “Knin Fell in Belgrade”, where he outlines all the truth and facts about the 1991-1995 “war” (I use quotation marks again, since none of it besides the Battle of Vukovar can seriously be considered a real war, it would more accurately qualify as a Serb insurgency that resulted from a Croat rebellion committed to separatism from Yugoslavia and the extermination of Serbs) with the Croats, which was suppressed from the common public in Serbia.

    Well, you’ve definitely answered all my questions and more. Better than I hoped, actually.
    Much appreciated.

    I’m not sure how I helped you out, but, I guess you’re welcome?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  152. @Commentator Mike

    I would’ve pressed the agree button, but you got a few things wrong. Still, compared to your previous comments, it’s good that in this comment you got more things correct than wrong, which is something that can’t be said for some of your other comments, hence my strong reaction to them …

    Everyone at time makes mistakes where they state something, usually a small thing, which is factually incorrect, even though they did not mean to, or did not fully understand the subject matter, but really meant to state something else. At times, i’m also guilty of this myself. I did that a few times in my long reply to peterAUS. Peter rightfully called me out on this when I stated that Milisav Sekulic instead of Milan Martic was the effective leader of RSK. Anyway, I will correct you or clarify one thing you wrote in your comment.

    Hats off to the Serbian lads who fought off a joint force of Kosovar terrorist units,

    Many thanks for your respects. Please though, stop using the word “Kosovar” when referring to Albanians (more properly called Shiptars, and no, the word “Shiptar” is not “racist” or an “ethnic slur”, it is literally what “Albanians” call themselves, that is, “Shqipere”, in the Shiptar language) on Kosovo. The word “Kosovar” sounds cringey, and more importantly, it also implies that Shiptars are native to Kosovo, which they aren’t. You don’t really have to use the word Shiptar, since unfortunately many people in Serbia also aren’t aware of the Shiptar plagiarism of ancient Serbian history and culture, so they still call them “Albanians”, but you can definitely make the effort to not call them “Kosovars”.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  153. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    TheTotallyAnonymous,

    I’m not too good with details either.

    I just thought that most UR readers would not be familiar with the “shiptar” terms, that’s all. I’m not too bothered about PC.

    We can all get worked up about whatever, but it’s not a good idea to be hot headed when it comes to serious conflict, and a cold head and a colder heart are called for, with reason and cold mathematical calculation being paramount.

    But we’ll see how things develop in the Balkans, the No.2 hot zone in the world, after the Middle East, and the two are linked in many ways. A lot of change is going on there and in the world, so each has to see how best to exploit these for their own good.

  154. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    …..most of them were really just opportunists with no clear vision or insight….

    Yep.

    …. like in Libya and Syria on the side of Gaddafi and Assad…

    And Donbass/Russia.

    And some more exotic places, like Africa.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  155. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Are you implying…

    I am saying that we have, almost, diametrically opposed perceptions of that reality. Don’t have any interest in changing either yours or mine.

    ….I only mentioned General Milisav Sekulic since he was the effective military leader in Krajina from 1991-1995…

    You sure he was not (just) the Chief of Operations there? You know….Chief of Operations (Sekulic)->Chief of Staff (Đukić, Lončar)->Commander (Novakovic, Celeketic, Mrksic) Commander in Chief (Martic)->the Real Commander (Milosevic) , as in the case of Krajina?
    Five minutes Google.
    It’s O.K. We can’t expect a mid-thirties, urbanite Serbian from Belgrade, who’s never served in the military to understand those murky details and do that type of (quick) research.

    I’m not sure how I helped you out, but, I guess you’re welcome?

    Fact-finding exercise. People related.

    Those events, today, are available, in minute detail, to anyone who:
    1. Has interest.
    2. Time
    3. Understands something about the topic. This one is…… funny.

    And, the end result is that post of yours, apparently.
    In all war-related topics on the Internet, which apparently attract your types across the racial, national and age spectrum, the result is similar. 95 % posts are………..interesting.
    People who have no idea what they are talking about, and don’t even understand that fact, are the most vocal.

    Well..hehe…it is what it is.
    Free will, karma etc.

    I guess you’d like to get into heated debate about all that. Won’t work. You just keep at your viewpoints and leave me enjoying mine.

    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  156. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    Food for thought, perhaps:

    The (your side) people, then and there, had the almost identical perception of reality, viewpoints, thoughts, beliefs, feelings…Methods.
    The overall approach to The Issue, from the big picture to those little details.
    Look at the result.

    Those are old people now.I know they haven’t changed one thing from the paragraph above.
    The new generation has come up.

    You, apparently, could be taken, here, as a representative of that new generation.

    Make of that what you will. Result wise.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  157. @peterAUS

    Yes agreed. The ones fighting in Donbass do get some publicity in the media, although it is a criminal offence in Serbia for Serbian nationals to fight overseas, whether as a volunteer with the Donbass forces or as an ISIS terrorist, much like in most countries these days.

  158. @peterAUS

    Fact-finding exercise. People related.

    Those events, today, are available, in minute detail, to anyone who:
    1. Has interest.
    2. Time
    3. Understands something about the topic. This one is…… funny.

    Just to clarify, I never claimed that I was an absolute expert on this subject matter, since after all, to get every single detail perfectly correct and mention everything even remotely important, I would have to write you a PhD thesis on this matter. That is, with citations, links, sources, and so on. I did my best to write you the briefest possible summary of relevant information on an extremely complex topic. Obviously, I left out some things and made a few small errors in detail, since I was writing a lengthy but improvised analysis of relevant events and facts. I could easily go even deeper into the facts and details with you on this, but sure, let’s not, since you’re not interested in that. After all, this thread has been butchered enough anyway …

    Food for thought, perhaps:

    The (your side) people, then and there, had the almost identical perception of reality, viewpoints, thoughts, beliefs, feelings…Methods.
    The overall approach to The Issue, from the big picture to those little details.
    Look at the result.

    Those are old people now.I know they haven’t changed one thing from the paragraph above.
    The new generation has come up.

    You, apparently, could be taken, here, as a representative of that new generation.

    Make of that what you will. Result wise.

    Fair enough then.

    I will only contend that things will work out differently in the future because circumstances are changing, and the same scenario of the 1990’s can’t repeat itself again (especially the harmful international intervention part), simply at least because there is no Yugoslavia, and most probably never will be again (hopefully). Still though, you do have a point, there were many errors and mistakes that were made, which need to be analyzed and understood. It’s worth spending the time to thoroughly analyze it all, so that at minimum, the mistakes that were made and disasters or failures which happened, are not repeated all over again …

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  159. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    I left out some things and made a few small errors in detail, since I was writing a lengthy but improvised analysis of relevant events and facts. I could easily go even deeper into the facts and details with you on this, but sure, let’s not, since you’re not interested in that.

    Well, the only reason I reply to your post is that so far you’ve been civil in this “chat”. That, itself, is quite a feat for the topic and usual participants.
    And this is quite a surprise:

    Still though, you do have a point, there were many errors and mistakes that were made, which need to be analyzed and understood. It’s worth spending the time to thoroughly analyze it all, so that at minimum, the mistakes that were made and disasters or failures which happened, are not repeated all over again …

    Well, you definitely have your work cut out for you.

    Food for thought: how come that Serbs, in Krajina, couldn’t defend any town in the region for at least two weeks while Muslims, in the eastern Mostar, could hold for 10 months?
    Take your time.
    No need to reply here.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  160. Smith says:

    Can’t wait for America to fail for the so-called “Axis of Resistance” can go back and maul themselves due to not having the Great Enemy uniting them.

    Would be a sight seeing africans whining about chinese imperalism and chinese peacekeepers/liberators camp in Africa.

  161. @peterAUS

    Well, the only reason I reply to your post is that so far you’ve been civil in this “chat”. That, itself, is quite a feat for the topic and usual participants.

    Well, your statement that I know nothing about the events of the 1990’s because I’m an urbanite and a Serb from east of the river Drina is a deeply insulting one. Any hostile response on my part to such a statement would’ve been completely justified. Not only this, but you’ve clearly stated in another thread that you consider Ustashe terrorism “an impressive feat”. Anyway, even if you completely disagree with my perspective and state that I know nothing about the events of the Yugoslav Wars, for some reason, that perspective impresses you …

    Still, it is true that only soldiers or military personnel, especially those who experienced war firsthand, can truly be experts and authorities on war. However, civilians cannot afford to ignore wars, as the consequences for the civilian populations of defeated factions in wars are nearly always devastating.

    Anyway, I decided not to respond to you in an insulting manner partly because I don’t particularly care about your attitude or opinion on certain issues, but more importantly, I don’t have the time to enter into intense arguments with you on an internet forum. As it is, I’m actually wasting too much time on various internet places like these, instead of focusing on certain aspects of my private life that I’m supposed to be working on and improving. Also, by now, after having gotten into many arguments with several people on the internet, about both Balkan and non-Balkan issues, I’ve learnt that it’s simply pointless to viciously argue with most people about certain things, as their opinions most probably won’t be changed, and getting into heated emotional exchanges is not a worthwhile end-goal in itself. With that sorted, let us get into the subject matter.

    Food for thought: how come that Serbs, in Krajina, couldn’t defend any town in the region for at least two weeks while Muslims, in the eastern Mostar, could hold for 10 months?
    Take your time.

    Simple. That is, the explanation is simple in theory, but a bit more complicated in reality.

    When you were first criticizing me for getting the positions of Milan Martic and Milisav Sekulic mixed up in the RSK leadership, you were implying that I didn’t know that the RSK leadership was subordinated to Belgrade and Slobodan Milosevic soon after the Krajina Serbs took up arms against the Croats. Only people who know nothing cannot be aware of that. This assumption was also insulting on your part, but moving on …

    This was a large part of the problem in the SVK (Army of Serb Krajina) mounting effective resistance, as the RSK leadership clearly held their hopes in the fact that the JNA (Later transformed into VJ from May 1992, yes I know, I got this small detail wrong before) would come and save them from any major Croat offensive. This was, above all, the greatest error in the thinking of the RSK leadership. They did not bother to grow, centralize and upgrade their own armed forces in the few years of opportunity and time which they had to do so. Instead, they spent much of their time in fatally indecisive passivity and idleness waiting for Slobodan Milosevic to rescue them with the JNA/VJ.

    It should’ve become clear to the RSK leadership that once Milosevic withdrew the JNA from Krajina, while he transformed the JNA into the VJ in 1992, especially when he invited UNPROFOR (at one moment, Serb paramilitaries stole fuel from UNPROFOR in Krajina lol ; A funny side-note in an otherwise tragic and depressing set of events) and other “international community” scum into Krajina, that Milosevic was using the RSK as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the USA/NATO and Franjo Tudjman/Alija Izetbegovic in 1995. It would become obvious later, that even Radovan Karadzic and the Republika Srpska leadership were also using the RSK as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the USA/NATO and Croats/Muslims in 1995. Slobodan Milosevic even rewarded Radovan Karadzic for his betrayal of Krajina with ~80 barrels of fuel. Ratko Mladic was the only one among the Republika Srpska leadership who was seriously willing to commit the VRS to fight in Krajina, but he was overruled by Radovan Karadzic. Also, as far as the Krajina Serbs were concerned, the SVK was used and abused by the Bosnian Serbs in Operation Corridor 1992, and especially the failed siege of Bihac.

    This, right here, was another large problem on the Serbian side. That is, the lack of unity and co-ordination of operations between Serbs in Krajina, Bosnia, and east of the river Drina (So, across cancerous AVNOJ borders). This is, yet again, another example in history which confirms the truth of the famous CCCC slogan (Samo Sloga Spasava Srbina = Only Unity Saves Serbs).

    Of course, as far as UNPROFOR and the Vance plan conspiracy is concerned, international peacekeepers were literally sent to Krajina in order to pacify the Serbian population and integrate them into the newly legitimized state of Croatia. This became especially clear in the role of UN forces in East Slavonia by aiding the implementation of the Erdut Agreement. UNPROFOR also literally blocked Krajina Serbs armed forces from retaliating and counterattacking against Croat offensives or “operations”. So by blocking Serbs from retaliating and not blocking the Croats from attacking Serbs, they served the purpose of allowing the Croats to grow and fully organize their armed forces to the highest capabilities possible. The only exception to this was the Canadian peacekeepers at Medack Pocket who were attacked by the Croats because, by chance, they were blocking Croats from ethnically cleansing Serbs. UNPROFOR and international actors, whether they intended to or not, were sent to Krajina in order to allow the Croats to surgically remove and exterminate the Serbs from Krajina, piece by piece, with their many minor “operations” over the years.

    Of course, the Serbs who found themselves in the face of those well planned “operations” obviously tried to shoot back, but it didn’t work because besides the previously aforementioned issues, there was also disorder and dysfunction in the SVK and the leadership of the RSK. For instance, the guys in Slavonia spent most of their time making war propaganda or uselessly idling about from 1992 until 1995, which makes the outcome unsurprising when they got hit with “Operation” Flash. Otherwise, there was mass desertion, disorder, and disobedience in the SVK and all Serb forces present in Krajina, especially paramilitaries (Captain Dragan Vasiljkovic was a rare exception), to the RSK leadership. Still though, even if the RSK leadership did what they should have, which was to militarize and organize their armed forces to the highest possible levels of effectiveness and efficiency, it is unclear if this would have significantly changed the final outcome.

    The RSK and Serb population of Krajina was around 700,000 – 800,000 people, while the Croat population base was a few million people, which when translated into military capacity and resources, clearly made the long-term Croat military capabilities superior to those of Krajina Serbs (Again, the starting years from 1990-1992 were the moment of opportunity for Serbs, as the Croats did not have very large armed forces then, they only built their forces up, patiently and gradually, from 1992-1995). Even if the RSK leadership organized and used its own armed forces to the maximum of their capabilities, it is not clear if they could have successfully resisted the Croats later on, since the available resource and population base made such a thing unlikely and impossible. Also, the geography of Krajina was very unfavorable to Serbs to fight on the defensive, that is, most of it is flat grasslands and open terrain (The Dinara hill/mountain ranges being the only exception) where as anyone knows, armies with superior numbers and resources easily overrun those with less numbers and weaker resources (Exactly what happened with “Operation” Storm). This was especially the case, as NATO/USA literally armed and trained the Croats for “Operation” Storm, and bombed Serb positions as a part of Operation Deliberate Force against the RSK and RS (Republika Srpska), meaning that the USA bears major responsibility for ethnically cleansing and exterminating Serbs from their ancient homelands (Even US diplomat Richard Holbrooke referred to Croats as “Junkyard attack dogs”). This is why I previously stated that the Yugoslav Wars were a lost cause from the beginning, as far as Serbs were concerned, most certainly from the moment when the JNA/VJ withdrew east of the River Drina in 1992. It’s clear with hindsight that Kosovo was being defended in Knin from 1990-1995. The only thing that Serbs in Krajina and Bosnia could’ve done in 1992-1995 was to resist being exterminated and ethnically cleansed to the fullest extent possible, and retaliate as much as possible, since it was open hunting season on them in those time periods …

    The greatest Serb defeat of the 1990’s was really suffered in Krajina compared to anywhere else (At least in the ethno-demographic sense, arguably even military-political as well). Storm in 1995 is the single greatest disaster of Serbian history ever since WW2. The only good thing that can be considered to have come from Storm is the fact that those Serbs, 200,000 at least, were not all exterminated, but could instead survive and contribute to the demographic integrity of Serbia proper (Especially given the emigration issues and below 2.1 birthrates of the Serb population since 2000). Since most of them went to Vojvodina, the relocation of refugees from Storm there has also made Hungarian and other minority separatism in Vojvodina extremely difficult. Of course, this was also the perspective that Milosevic and his military-political class in Serbia also had about Storm. As true as this is, it is also an extremely cynical and callous perspective to have on the tragedy and human suffering of these people, but it is the only positive that can be taken from Storm. Otherwise, it is an absolute tragedy which is a large part of what has made Serbia the country with the highest number of refugees in Europe, 900,000 people, that is, it’s own ethnic people (no, not the fake refugee African/Muslim migrants) who were ethnically cleansed and fled extermination from hostile genocidal and invader forces. One of the most disgraceful things among Serbs in 1995, and even to this date, is the attitude of contempt and hostility held by some Serbs east of the river Drina towards those who fled during Storm and in general (My family personally helped some of these people unlike many others, especially their own family friends from Krajina – An old grandpa of mine also died from stress about the well-being of his good friend pogrom-ed from Zadar). Of course, it was also the attitude of Slobodan Milosevic and his political class as well, which partly encouraged contempt and hostility towards those people in order to distract attention away from their responsibility in the disaster and, arguably for some, to relieve themselves of feelings of guilt by blaming the disaster on everyone else besides themselves.

    Anyway, to simplify the mistakes and errors made in Krajina, we can sum them down to the following:

    1: RSK leadership expecting and basing its strategy on help from Milosevic and the JNA/VJ.
    2: Divided and disunited co-ordination between all ethnic Serbs across the cancerous AVNOJ borders.
    3: RSK leadership, SVK and other Serb military forces acting with passivity, idleness, disorganization, dysfunction, and reckless carelessness in critical time frames.
    4: Invitation by Milosevic of “international community” scum into Krajina who were there to achieve fundamentally anti-Serb goals.
    5: The ultimately deliberate betrayal and selling out of Krajina by Milosevic and Karadzic.
    6: Points 1,2 and 5 arguably overlap with each other and could be simplified.

    Of course, the Muslims in Mostar, unlike the Serbs in Krajina, obviously did not spend their time doing nothing to effectively resist because they sat back waiting and hoping that the armed forces of the USA/NATO or other Muslim countries would save them in 1992/1993, since they clearly knew that the circumstances in that moment were not in their favor for such a thing. As you have recognized, I have no military experience nor military expertise, you can freely add something if you think I missed anything here, since you seem to think you know much more than I do about these matters …

  162. TheTotallyAnonymous,

    Basically, to put it simply, whatever gains the fighters achieved on the battlefields, the politicians lost, betrayed, gave up. And whatever more gains they could have easily made, the politicians held them back. The politicians tied their hands (of the JNA, VJ, or whatever other Serbian armies and paramilitaries there) behind their back and didn’t give them free rein to do their job right from the start … to the very end. That’s why it went on for so long, 8 years of war.

    Still, it is true that only soldiers or military personnel, especially those who experienced war firsthand, can truly be experts and authorities on war.

    Not sure how much this is true; some don’t quite see the bigger picture although they have a lot of insider information and know details kept away from the media. Anyway, even those who were there don’t necessarily hold the same views so asking one you may get a different opinion than from another. But I think most would say they were betrayed and held back by the politicians with their stop – go – retreat – orders which often seemed illogical.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  163. peterAUS says:

    Wow……….
    Just seen your comment (the size of it…), and, well, that, itself, deserves a response.

    Here it is:

    Still, it is true that only soldiers or military personnel, especially those who experienced war firsthand, can truly be experts and authorities on war.

    Yep.

    However, civilians cannot afford to ignore wars, as the consequences for the civilian populations of defeated factions in wars are nearly always devastating.

    True. Conundrum, a? How to get something very hard to get?

    Anyway, I decided not to respond to you in an insulting manner partly because I don’t particularly care about your attitude or opinion on certain issues, but more importantly, I don’t have the time to enter into intense arguments with you on an internet forum. As it is, I’m actually wasting too much time on various internet places like these, instead of focusing on certain aspects of my private life that I’m supposed to be working on and improving. Also, by now, after having gotten into many arguments with several people on the internet, about both Balkan and non-Balkan issues, I’ve learnt that it’s simply pointless to viciously argue with most people about certain things, as their opinions most probably won’t be changed, and getting into heated emotional exchanges is not a worthwhile end-goal in itself.

    Hehe…and yet, here you are with a long post. It’s O.K.

    Simple. That is, the explanation is simple in theory, but a bit more complicated in reality.
    When you were first criticizing me for getting the positions of Milan Martic and Milisav Sekulic mixed up in the RSK leadership, you were implying that I didn’t know that the RSK leadership was subordinated to Belgrade and Slobodan Milosevic soon after the Krajina Serbs took up arms against the Croats.

    No. I was implying that you haven’t studied the topic well. And, that you don’t really know how those things work in the first place (military organization of that size, military operations of that size…stuff like that).

    This was a large part of the problem in the SVK (Army of Serb Krajina) mounting effective resistance, as the RSK leadership clearly held their hopes in the fact that the JNA (Later transformed into VJ from May 1992, yes I know, I got this small detail wrong before) would come and save them from any major Croat offensive. This was, above all, the greatest error in the thinking of the RSK leadership. They did not bother to grow, centralize and upgrade their own armed forces in the few years of opportunity and time which they had to do so. Instead, they spent much of their time in fatally indecisive passivity and idleness waiting for Slobodan Milosevic to rescue them with the JNA/VJ.

    Yep.

    It should’ve become clear to the RSK leadership that once Milosevic withdrew the JNA from Krajina, while he transformed the JNA into the VJ in 1992,…that Milosevic was using the RSK as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the USA/NATO and Franjo Tudjman/Alija Izetbegovic in 1995. It would become obvious later, that even Radovan Karadzic and the Republika Srpska leadership were also using the RSK as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the USA/NATO and Croats/Muslims in 1995.

    Yep…..

    This, right here, was another large problem on the Serbian side. That is, the lack of unity and coordination of operations between Serbs in Krajina, Bosnia, and east of the river Drina (So, across cancerous AVNOJ borders). This is, yet again, another example in history which confirms the truth of the famous CCCC slogan (Samo Sloga Spasava Srbina = Only Unity Saves Serbs).

    Yep……

    Of course, the Serbs who found themselves in the face of those well planned “operations” obviously tried to shoot back, but it didn’t work because besides the previously aforementioned issues, there was also disorder and dysfunction in the SVK and the leadership of the RSK.

    Yep….

    ….was mass desertion, disorder, and disobedience in the SVK and all Serb forces present in Krajina, especially paramilitaries (Captain Dragan Vasiljkovic was a rare exception), to the RSK leadership.

    Yep.

    …the geography of Krajina was very unfavorable to Serbs to fight on the defensive, that is, most of it is flat grasslands and open terrain (The Dinara hill/mountain ranges being the only exception) where as anyone knows, armies with superior numbers and resources easily overrun those with less numbers and weaker resources (Exactly what happened with “Operation” Storm).

    Wrong, but feels good. Your own Partisans in WW2 proved that. Germans proved that in defense of Knin in ’44.

    This was especially the case, as NATO/USA literally armed and trained the Croats for “Operation” Storm, and bombed Serb positions as a part of Operation Deliberate Force against the RSK and RS (Republika Srpska), meaning that the USA bears major responsibility for ethnically cleansing and exterminating Serbs from their ancient homelands (Even US diplomat Richard Holbrooke referred to Croats as “Junkyard attack dogs”).

    Wrong, but feels good.

    The greatest Serb defeat of the 1990’s was really suffered in Krajina compared to anywhere else (At least in the ethno-demographic sense, arguably even military-political as well). Storm in 1995 is the single greatest disaster of Serbian history ever since WW2.

    Yep…..

    Anyway, to simplify the mistakes and errors made in Krajina, we can sum them down to the following:
    1: RSK leadership expecting and basing its strategy on help from Milosevic and the JNA/VJ.
    2: Divided and disunited co-ordination between all ethnic Serbs across the cancerous AVNOJ borders.
    3: RSK leadership, SVK and other Serb military forces acting with passivity, idleness, disorganization, dysfunction, and reckless carelessness in critical time frames.
    4: Invitation by Milosevic of “international community” scum into Krajina who were there to achieve fundamentally anti-Serb goals.
    5: The ultimately deliberate betrayal and selling out of Krajina by Milosevic and Karadzic.
    6: Points 1,2 and 5 arguably overlap with each other and could be simplified.

    Pretty much. The third in particular.

    Of course, the Muslims in Mostar, unlike the Serbs in Krajina, obviously did not spend their time doing nothing to effectively resist because they sat back waiting and hoping that the armed forces of the USA/NATO or other Muslim countries would save them in 1992/1993, since they clearly knew that the circumstances in that moment were not in their favor for such a thing.

    Yep.

    As you have recognized, I have no military experience nor military expertise, you can freely add something if you think I missed anything here, since you seem to think you know much more than I do about these matters …

    First, compliments, kid. You’ve done well here for a person with a lot of emotional baggage for the topic. You still can’t accept the effort Croats did for the final outcome but that’s understandable.

    Here is my add:
    You COULD take a look at what REALLY made Croat Armed Forces effective then and there. It’s not “Americans”. It’s something else. HInt: keyword “westernization”.
    And, had your people in Krajina done that “something else”, which they could have, maybe all that would’ve been quite different.

    Learning from the victorious enemy is the quality not many have. Sticking to comforting myths is much easier. Feels good.
    It also makes repeating the same mistake.
    Free will.

  164. @peterAUS

    Hi PeterAUS,

    Unz Review has permanently removed or relocated to the circular ether file Boyd Cathey’s “The shootings, the stats, and the violent war against deplorables.”

    I’m sure Unz would be happy, if pressed, to provide a plausible-sounding explanation, something along the lines of “at the author’s request” or various denigrating statements regarding the commentary.

    Not worth pursuing, of course.

    Rabbits.

    [Fixed.]

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  165. peterAUS says:
    @Oldtradesman

    Unz Review has permanently removed or relocated to the circular ether file Boyd Cathey’s “The shootings, the stats, and the violent war against deplorables.”

    I’m sure Unz would be happy, if pressed, to provide a plausible-sounding explanation, something along the lines of “at the author’s request” or various denigrating statements regarding the commentary.

    Not worth pursuing, of course.

    Rabbits.

    [Fixed.]

    Hahahaha…….really? For fuck’s sake. Hahaha……….

    Cheers mate. Haven’t watched that thread after you have gone from there. Hahaha………

    I actually take that as a compliment. The proof of good work we’ve done there.

    As I keep saying: if I talk to 100 men/women if only THREE get it I am good. Don’t much give a fuck about the rest.Especially on public forums.

    Hahaha….hilarious.

    Listen, we’ll just have to do the same in some other thread. How about one about Jews as a core issue? It will attract the most traffic and won’t be so easy to ….ahm…hahaha…”relocate” later on.
    We just get lost in the “noise” there.

    Hahaha…….

    • Replies: @Oldtradesman
  166. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I’ll keep this simple: you’ve bought into a lot of Serb myths there.

    Three things you could take a deeper look re those topics, if you want:

    Federal forces had wrong doctrine, organizational structure, hardware, strategic, operational and tactical approach for that conflict. Add inept top leadership (why is another interesting matter as well) and there you have it.
    That’s for the start to up (say, up to ’92).

    Serb forces, after, retained the very same organizational structure, operational and tactical approach and got worse hardware. Retained almost all the inept leadership.

    The last, but definitely not the least, Serbs failed to build stable organized societies there, in all three parts. Corruption. That, itself, ate their morale. Especially where it mattered, on the ground

    They still can’t see that. Or don’t want to.
    That’s fine.

  167. @peterAUS

    peterAUS,

    The main thing is it was very confusing in the military and the society how it all developed. It wasn’t really clear to many what they were fighting for as it sort of went from the defence of communism, federalism, and multiethnic Yugoslavianism to ethnic nationalisms – sort o from civil war to nationalist war. The military kept falling apart and restructuring as it went along. Take the siege of Sarajevo – how long did that go on for? Almost four years. Longer than Stalingrad. What was the point of it all? Just bombing for years from the hills while allowing muslims to rearm through the functioning airport, if I remember correctly. If the federal forces had been more resolute and determined at the start, there was a window of opportunity where the international community wouldn’t have interfered, but after seeing it all drag on, oh well … I don’t know if the JNA ever practiced for fighting against its own people anyway, unlike the US military which has such plans and rehearses them. I mean those soldiers were getting shot in the back from the streets of Ljubljana to Sarajevo and Tuzla and being kept hostages in their bases. Now which proper army would allow that? Whatever it was, the officers betrayed their conscripts in many instances.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  168. @peterAUS

    Apparently Boyd Cathey’s “The shootings, the stats, and the violent war against deplorables” was retrieved from the circular ether file.

    Yes, we’ll have to do this again. Am busy this weekend, but will give you a heads up when ready (Friday, perhaps).

  169. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Still on the topic?
    Sort of does make sense; the result of it, as far it concerns you, is that for the first time since 1912 “you” have an Islamic state in Balkans.

    The main thing is it was very confusing in the military and the society how it all developed. It wasn’t really clear to many what they were fighting for as it sort of went from the defence of communism, federalism, and multiethnic Yugoslavianism to ethnic nationalisms – sort o from civil war to nationalist war. The military kept falling apart and restructuring as it went along.

    Something like that.

    Take the siege of Sarajevo – how long did that go on for? Almost four years. Longer than Stalingrad. What was the point of it all? Just bombing for years from the hills while allowing muslims to rearm through the functioning airport, if I remember correctly.

    It’s much more COMPLICATED than that.

    If the federal forces had been more resolute and determined at the start, there was a window of opportunity where the international community wouldn’t have interfered, but after seeing it all drag on, oh well …

    That’s an interesting point. HAD….that country had somebody as Jaruzelski, who would support a reformist, democratic ruling elite…maybe. It’s Balkan’s mate. Not Polland.
    If I were you I’d keep that in mind. BALKANS.

    I don’t know if the JNA ever practiced for fighting against its own people anyway, unlike the US military which has such plans and rehearses them.

    No, it did not. That’s what I meant by “doctrine”.

    I mean those soldiers were getting shot in the back from the streets of Ljubljana to Sarajevo and Tuzla and being kept hostages in their bases. Now which proper army would allow that? Whatever it was, the officers betrayed their conscripts in many instances.

    It’s a bit more COMPLICATED than that. You really don’t want to go there.
    Food for thought: Germans had 100 Serbs shot for one dead German soldiers and 50 shot for one German soldier wounded. Hehe….you really don’t want to go that path I guess.
    How many German or Italian soldiers were shot in the back there in WW2…………………………………?!
    It pays NOT to get a civilian morality into civil war. And especially not Western contemporary civilian morality in the civil war in Balkans. My take anyway.

    You mentioned Tuzla, for example. Fine.
    You let go those soldiers and HARDWARE and SUPPLIES ….and then they join their mates around the city and “deliver” all “material” back to you……….

    War is a ruthless business. A civil war in particular. You remember yours I guess. Americans can recollect Sherman.
    And civil war in Balkans…..oh my.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  170. @peterAUS

    peterAUS,

    It’s much more COMPLICATED than that.

    OK, yes. Give it a little more time and this could be happening throughout Europe unless the Europeans just fold over and accept what’s coming their way from the dramatic demographic changes going on. Yugoslavia tried to build a multiethnic society and now Europe is pushing for a multicultural one which is much the same thing… well worse in fact … it’s multiracial and multiethnic. And US too. You are right there are lessons to be learned, and not just for those in the Balkans. But most people don’t see it until it is too late.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  171. @peterAUS

    The last, but definitely not the least, Serbs failed to build stable organized societies there, in all three parts. Corruption. That, itself, ate their morale. Especially where it mattered, on the ground

    They still can’t see that. Or don’t want to.
    That’s fine.

    I wasn’t even going to bother responding to you until I read this. I couldn’t agree more about this. It is something that is so simple and so obvious, but it completely missed me for some reason.

    Types like Goran Hadzic, Zeljko Raznatovic “Arkan”, and Vuk Draskovic (Compared to the other two, Vuk literally worked with foreign intelligence agencies) with their paramilitaries, looting, smuggling, corruption, and so on, were the ones who truly killed morale from within. It is extremely unfortunate that there were not more incorruptible men like Ljubisa Savic “Mauzer” with his “Garda Panteri” (Panther Guard) paramilitary in the 1990’s, instead of the types mentioned above. The fact that Ljubisa Savic was assassinated by other Serbs in Republika Srpska after the war for opposing corruption is a disgrace.

    Corruption is a social, cultural, and above all, political issue. It is a very serious problem both during war and peacetime. Corruption is also something that takes time to deal with, among other things. Unfortunately, corruption is an issue that is still far from resolved in Serbia, Republika Srpska, and among all Serbs in general.

    You still can’t accept the effort Croats did for the final outcome but that’s understandable.

    Here is my add:
    You COULD take a look at what REALLY made Croat Armed Forces effective then and there. It’s not “Americans”. It’s something else. HInt: keyword “westernization”.
    And, had your people in Krajina done that “something else”, which they could have, maybe all that would’ve been quite different.

    Learning from the victorious enemy is the quality not many have. Sticking to comforting myths is much easier. Feels good.
    It also makes repeating the same mistake.
    Free will.

    Modernization?

    Otherwise, let’s just agree to disagree, because I don’t see where Croats had to make an exceptional effort with Storm. They faced Serb civilians, and even some soldiers, who already began fleeing in advance as they were informed of what was coming. The Croats managed to negotiate for the non-intervention of the VJ and VRS (Army of Republika Srpska) during “Operation” Storm in advance. The ARSK (Army of Republic of Serb Krajina) did not adequately prepare itself for Storm. The Croats had overwhelming superiority in numbers, as it was ~35,000 Serb soldiers v ~200,000 Croat soldiers in August 1995 (out of everything, achieving those large numbers is most probably where Croats would’ve had to put in the greatest effort). Finally, the Croats had US/NATO military support in planning, training, weaponry (international sanctions and arms embargoes in the 1990’s only practically applied to Serbs), and directly with air strikes as a part of Operation Deliberate Force. At least half the Croatian Army would literally have had to kill themselves in order for the Croats to fail with “Operation” Storm.

    Federal forces had wrong doctrine, organizational structure, hardware, strategic, operational and tactical approach for that conflict. Add inept top leadership (why is another interesting matter as well) and there you have it.
    That’s for the start to up (say, up to ’92).

    Politics above all, more than anything else. Although yes, much of it was a product of the Yugoslav Communist social and political system. That is, the intense corruption, treason, “Brotherhood and Unity” garbage, reckless incompetence, and so on.

    Anyway, thanks for the useful insight about corruption. It is by far the most important and useful insight that you’ve provided. It literally made it worth taking the time to interact with you after all.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @yurivku
  172. Wim says:

    I read elsewhere that one effect of being governed by clerics is that religion has become rather unpopular in Iran – as demonstrated by for example low numbers of people visiting the mosque. It would have been interesting to see a question about that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  173. Talha says:
    @Wim

    one effect of being governed by clerics is that religion has become rather unpopular

    Likely. Who the heck wants a bunch of religious scholars running society. I’m a traditional Muslim and I certainly don’t.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  174. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ..I don’t see where Croats had to make an exceptional effort ..

    You don’t?
    Good.

  175. @Talha

    Talha,

    Wim wrote:

    demonstrated by for example low numbers of people visiting the mosque

    I was under the impression that in strict Muslim societies they keep tabs on attendances at mosques and that if an individual is not showing up regularly that certain measures are taken in the community such as being called up by the religious authorities to explain his absences, demonstrate that he hasn’t suddenly become a bad muslim, etc. … some sort of soft coercion, or maybe not so soft, depending on the country in question.

    • Replies: @Talha
  176. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Not that I know of other than in Saudi Arabia. When I visited Pakistan last time, many of my own relatives were surprised when I would go to the local mosque for regular prayers.

    I don’t know of any coercion method that is supposed to be applied other than your normal social pressure. I mean, if you are a man and consider yourself a man in a Muslim society, why are you praying at home – women pray at home. Men pray at the mosque. If you don’t want to be considered a man, do as you wish.

    I certainly would not want a society in which the government is keeping tabs on who is praying and who is not.

    To get the authorities involved in most situations, you usually have to be stupid and say something blasphemous, not just be lazy about the prayer.

    Peace.

  177. yurivku says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    …I don’t see where Croats had to make an exceptional effort …

    They did, they always tried to make those efforts

  178. @alexander

    Why should American taxslaves be on the hook for 22 trillion in heinous debt just because our “Jewish Overlords” September11thed us into (illegal) forever war ?

    Because those 81 trillion shekels are money well spent on the glorious war for Greater Israel and the traveling merchant is our super bestest friend ever.

    22 trillion in debt …it makes no sense.

    Careful Alexander, it seems like you are on the cusp of questioning the validity of the public debt. From there it is a slippery slope to questioning the legitimacy of the corporations masquerading as “government” and then on to full blown holocaust revisionism.

    Slippery slope Alex, slippery slope.

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