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The First Putin-Trump Meeting Yields…Something Very Close to Nothing
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First, we have the manner in which the Americans have been preparing the G20 summit. As we all know, in diplomacy actions count as much, or even more, than words. Here are just a few of the actions recently taken by the Americans in preparation for the G20 summit and Trump’s first meeting with Putin (in no particular order):

Going down this list, you got to admire the American sense of timing and diplomacy…

But, seriously now,

It does not really matter if these actions are just the result of imperial hubris and delusion, a complete lack of diplomatic education, the consequences of simple and straightforward human stupidity or all part of some diabolical plan to set the US on a collision course with the entire planet. What matters is the mind-blowing arrogance of it all, as if the USA were a white knight in shining armor worthy only of praise and adulation and as if the rest of the planet were composed of rowdy schoolchildren who needed to heed the words of their principal and start behaving or else get a good spanking from Uncle Sam.

If that is how Trump hopes to make “America Great Again” he might want to consider other options as this kind of attitude makes “America” (he means the USA, of course) look not “great” but arrogant, out of touch and supremely irritating. Let’s take on the world, everybody at the same time seems to be the grand plan of this administration.

The result of all these “diplomatic” efforts were predicable: nothing.

Well, almost nothing. Here is what “nothing” looks in diplomatic language:

According to Foreign Minister Lavrov Presidents Trump and Putin, were “motivated by their national interests” (who would have thought?!) and they agree on a number of concrete measures:

  1. an acceleration of the procedure to appoint new ambassadors – RU-US and US-RU
  2. they discussed the Russian diplomatic facilities seized by Obama
  3. they create a work group to discuss a number of issues including terrorism, organized crime, hacking and cybersecurity.
  4. they discussed Syria and the Ukraine and talked for 2 hours and 15 minutes.

According to RT, Russia and the US agreed on a ceasefire in the Daraa, Quneitra and As-Suwayda provinces of Syria. That is very good, of course, but this is in the one corner of Syria (southwest) where very little action is taking place (right now all the important stuff is taking place between Raqqa and Deir-Az-Sor). Oh, and there are de-escalation zones already in place in the southwest:

So unless Trump and Putin are keeping something really important secret, it seems that this summit has yielded exactly what I feared it would: nothing, or something very very close to nothing. If we find out later that in spite of everything, the two sides did discuss something of importance and agreed on something important, I will post and update here. And, believe me, nobody will be happier than me if that happens.

But, alas, it appears that many months of a sustained Neocon campaign to make darn sure that Russia and the US could never seriously collaborate have been very successful.

So where does this all leave us, the millions of people who had at least *some* hopes about Trump being an outsider who could try to make some real changes happen and maybe liberate the United States from the Neocon regime in power here since at least Bill Clinton (if not earlier)?

On February 14th of this year, following the anti-Flynn coup and Trump’s betrayal of his friend, I wrote that “it’s over folks” and “Trump betrayed us all”. I took a lot of flak for writing this, especially since I had come strongly on Trump’s side against Hillary during the campaign. Sadly, I believe that my conclusions in February are now proven correct.

I understand while some will want to present this meeting as, if not a success, then at least “good start” or a “semi-success”. For one thing, being the bearer of bad news never made anybody popular. Second, those who support Trump or Putin (or both) will want to show that the leader they support achieved something. Finally, if both sides report that the meeting has been a success, who are we to say otherwise?

I don’t know about anybody else, but I always have and always will call it as I see it. And what I see is simply nothing or something very close to nothing. Sorry folks, I wish I could say something else.

As for apportioning blame for this non-event, I place 100% of the guilt on the US side which did everything wrong with an almost manic determination and which will now find itself in the rather unenviable position of fighting pretty much the entire planet all on its own. Oh, sorry, I forgot. Poland unconditionally supports the USA and Trump!

Well, good for them. They richly deserve each other.

(Republished from The Vineyard of the Saker by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Donald Trump, Neocons, Russia 
    []
  1. Sparkon says:

    The Russian Academy of Sciences is skeptical of man-made global warming, and has been for some time. It is currently warning of an impending decades long period of global cooling.

    When it comes to warming and the man-made CO2 greenhouse gas effect, the Voice of Russia writes that “Russian scientist Vladimir Bashkin is categorically in disagreement. He claims that the climatic changes are characterized by cycles and have nothing to do in any way with the activities of man.”

    Global Warming is a marketing trick

    On the issue of climate, at least, there would appear to be some common ground, perhaps even agreement between Pres. Trump, and the Russians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Darin

    The Russian Academy of Sciences is skeptical of man-made global warming,
     
    Fake news. This is simply untrue.
    What they do say? The same things that scientific academies of all countries of the world say.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/03/27/global-warming-real-say-academies-sciences-major-countries-handful-readers-know-better

    You do not have to trust me, just visit http://www.ras.ru, search for "Изменение климата" (climate change) and check what they say. Use Google translate if your Russian is insufficient.
    , @CanSpeccy
    Of course human activity affects the climate. We just don't know exactly how or by how much and may neve know since the atmosphere is chaotic (It was an early climate model that revealed the butterfly effect, or classical indeterminacy).

    The unfortunate consequence of the futile debate about anthropogenic climate change is that it distracts attention from the known, measurable and serious consequences of a rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration on the biosphere and on human cognitive performance.

    , @bliss_porsena
    Our Treeza has also jumped the Global Warming shark so can she play with the big boys, please?
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  2. ANON says: • Disclaimer

    Ho hum, another “I don’t like Poland and Trump and Putin should do what I want them to do” rant from Saker.
    At least he didn’t go on and on about the Ukranian faction he calls Nazis, fascists and bad guys.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    Perhaps you would put us straight about what was accomplished at this meeting that the Saker has omitted to mention.
    , @URGH
    Ho hum, another run of the mill nothing burger comment. And if you knew anything about the khohol, you`d see they are already in service of joo fascist cabal.
  3. I’ll disagree with the Saker only to say that the meeting did not yield nothing, it yielded something far worse than nothing. It has cemented Trump irrevocably in the role of clueless neocon waterboy.

    My first attempt to explain Trump’s defection was to liken him to King Lear, desperately seeking validation and alienating the only ones who truly loved him. My next attempt was to liken him to King Saul, because he appears to have been rejected by God who had sustained his campaign so brilliantly. Now I’ve moved on to “So passes Denethor son of Ecthelion.”

    Read More
  4. Darin says:
    @Sparkon
    The Russian Academy of Sciences is skeptical of man-made global warming, and has been for some time. It is currently warning of an impending decades long period of global cooling.

    When it comes to warming and the man-made CO2 greenhouse gas effect, the Voice of Russia writes that “Russian scientist Vladimir Bashkin is categorically in disagreement. He claims that the climatic changes are characterized by cycles and have nothing to do in any way with the activities of man.”
     
    Global Warming is a marketing trick

    On the issue of climate, at least, there would appear to be some common ground, perhaps even agreement between Pres. Trump, and the Russians.

    The Russian Academy of Sciences is skeptical of man-made global warming,

    Fake news. This is simply untrue.
    What they do say? The same things that scientific academies of all countries of the world say.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/03/27/global-warming-real-say-academies-sciences-major-countries-handful-readers-know-better

    You do not have to trust me, just visit http://www.ras.ru, search for “Изменение климата” (climate change) and check what they say. Use Google translate if your Russian is insufficient.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    No, Darin. That's not how it's done.

    Please note how I gave an excerpt and link to support my comment. You, by contrast, tell me to go search the Russian Academy of Sciences website for articles on "climate change."


    Результаты поиска (8272)
     
    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process, one should not be surprised to find that the Russian Academy of Sciences has had a lot to say about it, but that doesn't mean the RAS supports theories about CAGW, runaway global warming, or any of the other hysterical nonsense being used to demonize coal, and legitimize wind turbines and solar arrays, which rely on subsidies to stay afloat.

    But if you've got it, bring it: direct quote and link, please, to support your argument.

    Here is a direct link to PCR's article as it appeared on Unz, with comments:

    https://www.unz.com/proberts/global-warming-is-real-say-the-academies-of-sciences-of-all-of-the-major-countries-but-a-handful-of-my-readers-know-better/

    6. Sparkon says:
    March 27, 2017 at 5:06 pm GMT • 400 Words


    No one disputes that there is global warming. Without global warming, large parts of N. America would still be buried under ice sheets a mile thick.

    All that ice melted or receded without humans playing any possible role because climate change is entirely natural, and it is an ongoing process. Climate has changed in the past, sometimes suddenly and drastically, and it will change again in the future, irrespective of how much of our wealth we squander trying to stop it, and in any event, human civilizations have prospered during periods of global warming, and they have crashed during periods of global cooling.
     

    PCR's follow-up:
    https://www.unz.com/proberts/global-warming-wrapup/
  5. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @ANON
    Ho hum, another "I don't like Poland and Trump and Putin should do what I want them to do" rant from Saker.
    At least he didn't go on and on about the Ukranian faction he calls Nazis, fascists and bad guys.

    Perhaps you would put us straight about what was accomplished at this meeting that the Saker has omitted to mention.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    What meeting?
    , @Wally
    Who says that everything the two of them talked about was reported to the 'press'?
  6. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sparkon
    The Russian Academy of Sciences is skeptical of man-made global warming, and has been for some time. It is currently warning of an impending decades long period of global cooling.

    When it comes to warming and the man-made CO2 greenhouse gas effect, the Voice of Russia writes that “Russian scientist Vladimir Bashkin is categorically in disagreement. He claims that the climatic changes are characterized by cycles and have nothing to do in any way with the activities of man.”
     
    Global Warming is a marketing trick

    On the issue of climate, at least, there would appear to be some common ground, perhaps even agreement between Pres. Trump, and the Russians.

    Of course human activity affects the climate. We just don’t know exactly how or by how much and may neve know since the atmosphere is chaotic (It was an early climate model that revealed the butterfly effect, or classical indeterminacy).

    The unfortunate consequence of the futile debate about anthropogenic climate change is that it distracts attention from the known, measurable and serious consequences of a rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration on the biosphere and on human cognitive performance.

    Read More
  7. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Having the meeting, by itself, went a long way towards diffusing the “Russia is evil” sentiment. Even if nothing else was accomplished, that made the meeting worthwhile.

    Read More
  8. anon says: • Disclaimer

    But through it all , the whining , blaming, complaining and snark you still live at USA instead of Russia. LoL indeed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @animalogic
    Wonder where they might live had they the money/job to move.....?
    , @ANON
    Saker has 4 themes.

    1 I hate Poland. 2 I love Russia because it is so wonderful. 3 Trump and Putin never follow my advice. 4 Everything is wrong about the USA and nothing is right about the USA.

    So why doesn't he go back to Russia and agitate for a reconquest of Eastern Poland? He reminds me of every Russian Jew and their gr gr grandchildren who arrived since 1880. Endless kvetching about what's wrong with America and Americans and endless to creating problems where there were none.
    My neighborhood got a huge influx of Russian Jewish "refugees" escaping from Russian anti semitism and mindless prejudice. Endless complaining about everything. From 1880 to 2017 they leave Russia and then kvetch about America.

    , @KA
    your argument reminds me of the clueless hyper reflexive vacuous arguments based on racism and ignorance offered by the pro war cheer leaders in the run up to Iraq war . Their arguments were not argument but were condescending racist frothy attitudes derived from watching the neocons on the TV . They would ask people protesting war to leave America -" leave or love"

    They saw freedom, determination , endless victories, collective economic progress , personal sacrifices and
    courage in the incoming wars.

    The world has turned against America now asking it "to leave the world or love the world " Love means follow the rules imposed by reality and imposed by human decency .
    2 are different .One can fight against human decency but the reality will march on .


    On another vein - people from Mexico Honduras Syria Iraq Afghanistan Nigeria Mail want to come here because .... you know why .. and it is not terror to inflict but to claim what has been destroyed by America ( West )
  9. Kirt says:

    Nothing works better for increasing your happiness and appreciation of life than minimalizing your expectations. During the Bush II regime, I counted any day when the US did not attack Iran as a very good day. Now I count any day when the US does not attack Russia, Iran or North Korea to be a very good day. Sounds to me like Putin and Trump have avoided all out war and perhaps move just a tiny bit toward mutual agreement. That’s an awesomely good day.

    Read More
  10. Hey, give it a couple of weeks (at least!) before declaring that it’s Very Close to Nothing.

    By the way: I bet the Nazi regime in Kiev is shaking in its boots right now…

    Read More
  11. Half an hour was planned, it became two hours and 16 minutes.
    So one might conclude there was something to talk about.

    Then there is the Trump Merkel difference.
    The USA is nearly autark, USA’s export is something like five percent of national income.
    Germany exports, I guess, more than half its national income.

    So the real boss of the European continent fears protectionism, it is therefore, according to Varoufakis, that Merkel continues the euro crisis, this makes Berlin the real capital of the continent.
    Not for nothing yesterday Juncker made a statement against protectionism, his mistress’ voice.

    Merkel of course is the ally of Deep State, those who want the USA to control the world, want to impose the USA way of living on the whole world.

    On the other hand, Germany does want an need good trade relations with the East, Russia.

    Being the German Kanzler is not an easy job.
    Germany has since 1870 been a country in difficulties, no natural borders, dependent on export.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    Being the German Kanzler is not an easy job.
     
    No, and Merkel is clearly not up to the job. She's definitely no Bismarck!
    , @jacques sheete

    Germany has since 1870 been a country in difficulties, no natural borders, dependent on export.
     
    Not much by way of natural resources and surrounded by enemies, both near and far, too.
  12. Bashkin may be right, alas, a statement like this from a scientist living in a country that is a great exporter of gas and oil will not be believed.
    On top of that, it suits western power not to be dependent on Russian energy.

    Read More
  13. @Sparkon
    The Russian Academy of Sciences is skeptical of man-made global warming, and has been for some time. It is currently warning of an impending decades long period of global cooling.

    When it comes to warming and the man-made CO2 greenhouse gas effect, the Voice of Russia writes that “Russian scientist Vladimir Bashkin is categorically in disagreement. He claims that the climatic changes are characterized by cycles and have nothing to do in any way with the activities of man.”
     
    Global Warming is a marketing trick

    On the issue of climate, at least, there would appear to be some common ground, perhaps even agreement between Pres. Trump, and the Russians.

    Our Treeza has also jumped the Global Warming shark so can she play with the big boys, please?

    Read More
  14. Oh, sorry, I forgot. Poland unconditionally supports the USA and Trump!
    Well, good for them. They richly deserve each other.
    =======
    If the price of LNG is more expensive than ruski gas, American people can always subsidize it as a sign of goodwill and solidarity with brave polacks.

    Read More
  15. Randal says:

    I get the feeling Trump and Putin themselves could actually forge a decent personal working relationship, because there would be a degree of mutual respect and Putin would eventually persuade Trump to see reason on the numerous important issues in which the Russian position is quite simply correct and the US position incorrect – Syria, Ukraine, the fantasy of “Russian interference”, Korea, etc. This objective truth simply reflects the capture of US foreign policy by people who have operated it to serve interests other than those of the American nation, so that US policy has been determined not by reality and rational analysis, but ideology and dishonesty.

    However, it is ultimately of no benefit that there could be such a good personal and working relationship, because as we have seen Trump is a entirely prisoner of the very interest groups that were responsible for distorting US foreign policy in the first place. It’s highly unlikely he would or could change much even if he were persuaded of the truth, and if he did make any significant changes he would be impeached or defeated at the next election and replaced by someone more in line with the poisonous US establishment views.

    Too many, too powerful US establishment groups (many of them not primarily loyal to the US) have an interest in maintaining the delusional and dysfunctional foreign policy we have seen in operation over the past three decades – inevitably, since they crafted that foreign policy foolishness.

    Putin, I think, knows this and hence is unlikely to make any real concessions to get agreements that will only be subverted or betrayed by the US as other interest groups within the US regime get the ear of the President or manage to subvert his policies, or by a future US regime.

    Read More
  16. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    According to RT, Russia and the US agreed on a ceasefire in the Daraa, Quneitra and As-Suwayda provinces of Syria.

    Wow, what a coincidence that this ‘ceasefire’ is adjacent to the stolen Golan, that water and oil rich part of Syria the Israelis STOLE during their 1967 War of Aggression.

    This will give Israel time to get all those wounded jihadists medical care in those Golan field hospitals and at the Ziv Medical Center in Safed, Israel. And give the quisling US Congress time to reimburse Israel for all those shekels spent caring for and paying the salaries of ISIS/DAESH/al Nusra terrorists.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/israel-risking-lives-elite-troops-save-syria-jihadis/ri11828

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Pat Lang has a diametrically opposed view the Cease Fire; he thinks Israel won't like it:

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/israel-cannot-be-pleased-with-tomorrows-sw-cease-fire-in-syria.html

    "[Israelis] seem to think that a jihadi controlled buffer zone between them and Damascus is better for them than Syrian government control. They do this in spite of the factoid that until the civil war began in Syria, there had been quiet along the front there for a long time.

    The Israelis are unable to cope with the missile and artillery rocket threat from Hizbullah north of the present front line north of the present line of contact. They know that. Neither air attacks or a possible massive Israeli ground attack into Lebanon would prevent HB firing a lot of their arsenal (30,000 weapons) into the northern half of Israel.

    Their belief is that if they take down the Syrian government they can achieve an operational level envelopment of Hizbullah's firing positions in Lebanon.

    They also believe that defeat of the SAG would fatally wound the Iranian government politically.

    None of that seems very likely to me but the scheme fits well with US enmity toward the Syrian government.
     

    Lang's closing is delicious:

    Why did Trump and Tillerson agree to this "deal?" I doubt that they understand the military situation and Kushner was not in the room to argue for the Israeli interest. pl"
     
  17. dykalg says:

    cheer up saker. the americans are sending an envoy to kiev tomorrow to pressure them to begin their first steps agreed to in the minsk accords. (the new york times was so upset about this that they could not write the words “minsk accords” in their page 1 article today.)
    second, the intell community will be asked to justify by evidence their claim of russian hacking.
    the audacity of this will leave them gob-smacked. and edgy.

    Read More
  18. Skeptikal says:

    “At least he didn’t go on and on about the Ukranian faction he calls Nazis, fascists and bad guys.”

    Why waste time stating the obvious if it isn’t necessary.

    Read More
  19. vinteuil says:

    Did you notice that Charles Schumer is angry at Trump for being insufficiently anti-Russian?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Did you notice that Charles Schumer is angry at Trump for being insufficiently anti-Russian?

    More and more it is becoming obvious, that the 15,000,000 strong Jew matrix is at at odds with America's interests. Israel Schumer shouts it out every time he opens his mouth.

    He displays and propagates the seed of endless confrontation the marks the Jew matrix. He is venom and poison to the American body politic.

    Peace --- Art

  20. @anon
    But through it all , the whining , blaming, complaining and snark you still live at USA instead of Russia. LoL indeed.

    Wonder where they might live had they the money/job to move…..?

    Read More
  21. URGH says:
    @ANON
    Ho hum, another "I don't like Poland and Trump and Putin should do what I want them to do" rant from Saker.
    At least he didn't go on and on about the Ukranian faction he calls Nazis, fascists and bad guys.

    Ho hum, another run of the mill nothing burger comment. And if you knew anything about the khohol, you`d see they are already in service of joo fascist cabal.

    Read More
  22. Another ceasefire for Israël, when they loose ground in Syria…

    A nice geste by Putin, to get talks started, probably. Russian diplomatic effort, which will sink in the swamp! :D

    Trump and Putin do seem to get along, but Trump is under Mike Pence’s controll: War, war, and War for Israël and Exxon-mobile.

    How soon and how the Syrian slitup will be, that is the question.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mad1
    Were you aware that before the silly US sanctions began that Exxon Mobil's single largest exploration project in the world was in partnership with Rosneft in Siberia?
  23. @jilles dykstra
    Half an hour was planned, it became two hours and 16 minutes.
    So one might conclude there was something to talk about.

    Then there is the Trump Merkel difference.
    The USA is nearly autark, USA's export is something like five percent of national income.
    Germany exports, I guess, more than half its national income.

    So the real boss of the European continent fears protectionism, it is therefore, according to Varoufakis, that Merkel continues the euro crisis, this makes Berlin the real capital of the continent.
    Not for nothing yesterday Juncker made a statement against protectionism, his mistress' voice.

    Merkel of course is the ally of Deep State, those who want the USA to control the world, want to impose the USA way of living on the whole world.

    On the other hand, Germany does want an need good trade relations with the East, Russia.

    Being the German Kanzler is not an easy job.
    Germany has since 1870 been a country in difficulties, no natural borders, dependent on export.

    Being the German Kanzler is not an easy job.

    No, and Merkel is clearly not up to the job. She’s definitely no Bismarck!

    Read More
  24. @jilles dykstra
    Half an hour was planned, it became two hours and 16 minutes.
    So one might conclude there was something to talk about.

    Then there is the Trump Merkel difference.
    The USA is nearly autark, USA's export is something like five percent of national income.
    Germany exports, I guess, more than half its national income.

    So the real boss of the European continent fears protectionism, it is therefore, according to Varoufakis, that Merkel continues the euro crisis, this makes Berlin the real capital of the continent.
    Not for nothing yesterday Juncker made a statement against protectionism, his mistress' voice.

    Merkel of course is the ally of Deep State, those who want the USA to control the world, want to impose the USA way of living on the whole world.

    On the other hand, Germany does want an need good trade relations with the East, Russia.

    Being the German Kanzler is not an easy job.
    Germany has since 1870 been a country in difficulties, no natural borders, dependent on export.

    Germany has since 1870 been a country in difficulties, no natural borders, dependent on export.

    Not much by way of natural resources and surrounded by enemies, both near and far, too.

    Read More
  25. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @CanSpeccy
    Perhaps you would put us straight about what was accomplished at this meeting that the Saker has omitted to mention.

    What meeting?

    Read More
  26. Agent76 says:

    May 15, 2017 Ukraine: US-Installed Fascist Rule in Europe’s Heartland. Will Donetsk Rejoin Russia?

    The nation shares a near-1,500 mile land and sea border with Russia. Stop NATO’s Rick Rozoff earlier explained Ukraine is “the decisive linchpin in plans by the US and its NATO allies to effect a military cordon sanitaire, severing Russia from Europe” – a sinister plot perhaps intended as prelude to nuclear war.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-us-installed-fascist-rule-in-europes-heartland-will-donetsk-rejoin-russia/5590150

    Sep 9, 2016 US-funded Ukrainian army is terrorizing civilians

    Russell Bentley is a former US marine, that now fights for the Donbass, Eastern Ukraine, against the US-funded Ukrainian army.

    Read More
  27. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @URGH
    Ho hum, another run of the mill nothing burger comment. And if you knew anything about the khohol, you`d see they are already in service of joo fascist cabal.

    What’s the khohol?

    Read More
  28. Sparkon says:
    @Darin

    The Russian Academy of Sciences is skeptical of man-made global warming,
     
    Fake news. This is simply untrue.
    What they do say? The same things that scientific academies of all countries of the world say.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/03/27/global-warming-real-say-academies-sciences-major-countries-handful-readers-know-better

    You do not have to trust me, just visit http://www.ras.ru, search for "Изменение климата" (climate change) and check what they say. Use Google translate if your Russian is insufficient.

    No, Darin. That’s not how it’s done.

    Please note how I gave an excerpt and link to support my comment. You, by contrast, tell me to go search the Russian Academy of Sciences website for articles on “climate change.”

    Результаты поиска (8272)

    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process, one should not be surprised to find that the Russian Academy of Sciences has had a lot to say about it, but that doesn’t mean the RAS supports theories about CAGW, runaway global warming, or any of the other hysterical nonsense being used to demonize coal, and legitimize wind turbines and solar arrays, which rely on subsidies to stay afloat.

    But if you’ve got it, bring it: direct quote and link, please, to support your argument.

    Here is a direct link to PCR’s article as it appeared on Unz, with comments:

    https://www.unz.com/proberts/global-warming-is-real-say-the-academies-of-sciences-of-all-of-the-major-countries-but-a-handful-of-my-readers-know-better/

    6. Sparkon says:
    March 27, 2017 at 5:06 pm GMT • 400 Words

    No one disputes that there is global warming. Without global warming, large parts of N. America would still be buried under ice sheets a mile thick.

    All that ice melted or receded without humans playing any possible role because climate change is entirely natural, and it is an ongoing process. Climate has changed in the past, sometimes suddenly and drastically, and it will change again in the future, irrespective of how much of our wealth we squander trying to stop it, and in any event, human civilizations have prospered during periods of global warming, and they have crashed during periods of global cooling.

    PCR’s follow-up:

    https://www.unz.com/proberts/global-warming-wrapup/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Darin
    As you wish.

    The chronogically latest result from www.ras.ru, from 7/7/2017

    http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx?id=77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx%3Fid%3D77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253&prev=search

    Google translated:

    Academician Igor Mokhov: Why Moscow is flooded with showers, and in Siberia - anomalous heat
    ...
    Who is Igor Mokhov?

    In the studio there is Igor Mohov, an academician, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a professor at the Moscow State University, a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. Hello.

    Seems like not insignificant person in RAS. If climate change is hoax, he shall know.
    ...
    2016, the Earth's temperature reached its maximum values ​​for the last 4000 years, is it true?
    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data - this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades. For the last million years, there has never been such a concentration of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere.

    ...

    And do the researchers have a clear understanding, what is the cause of global warming?
    Mokhov:
    - To date, according to the most detailed studies, both data analysis and model calculations show that it is impossible to explain modern climate changes, especially the last decades, without an anthropogenic factor. Therefore, this is a necessary element, although, of course, the models require further development and they develop very intensively.

    ...
    Mokhov:
    - In fact, what is happening now, it was already estimated several decades ago and was expected. And then they did not really believe that this could happen. We have already gone to the climate that was predicted before. And we are already living in a new climate that seemed incredible in the 50-60's.

    ...

    And what about the Paris climate accord? Way to save the world?


    "And yet, for the moment, President Putin went to Paris, then Paris agreements were concluded, and before that we had some kind of Kyoto protocol, yes, which, as scientists say, did not work. That's how it relates to that - the planet will be saved? - And what can I do for this?
    Mokhov:
    - Well, the Kyoto Protocol should not have led to any significant results, because it was, rather, an agreement such an economic and political and the first attempt at a global agreement that we do globally in terms of climate.
    Bacenin:
    - He was in what year?
    Mokhov:
    It's 1997 year. From 1998 to 2012 and in 2012, it ended, its results are relatively small limitations in the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and they could lead only to small, insignificant changes at the level of climate variability. As for the Paris conference, in which, incidentally, I also participated, well, it was still not a scientific conference, but rather a political one, and here is an attempt again of such agreements, at the state level, a global agreement, although it is very difficult to do, Because different countries have different interests.

    etc, etc..

    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process
     
    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say "Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire." and again fall asleep.
  29. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    But through it all , the whining , blaming, complaining and snark you still live at USA instead of Russia. LoL indeed.

    Saker has 4 themes.

    1 I hate Poland. 2 I love Russia because it is so wonderful. 3 Trump and Putin never follow my advice. 4 Everything is wrong about the USA and nothing is right about the USA.

    So why doesn’t he go back to Russia and agitate for a reconquest of Eastern Poland? He reminds me of every Russian Jew and their gr gr grandchildren who arrived since 1880. Endless kvetching about what’s wrong with America and Americans and endless to creating problems where there were none.
    My neighborhood got a huge influx of Russian Jewish “refugees” escaping from Russian anti semitism and mindless prejudice. Endless complaining about everything. From 1880 to 2017 they leave Russia and then kvetch about America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    That's because Jews invent their 'history' in order to kvetch and demand money.

    Why have supremacist Jews have been marketing the '6,000,000' lie since at least 1869?
    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php
    https://6millionfairytale.wordpress.com/more-proof-six-million-is-a-lie/

    , @peterAUS
    Interesting, isn't it?

    If Russia is so great, so better than the USA, and one so loves it, why doesn't he/she simply go and live there?

    What feels really awkward isn't the critique of The Empire.
    Plenty of that is more than justified.

    It's glorifying Russia and the regime in Moscow.

    Interestingly enough, majority of "open and critical minds" here don't even think about that.......discrepancy.

    Feels weird.
    Almost as there is inside joke somewhere there.

    I think it's, for Westerners, combination of "virtue signalling" and desperation to find an alternative for The Empire.
  30. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy
    Perhaps you would put us straight about what was accomplished at this meeting that the Saker has omitted to mention.

    Who says that everything the two of them talked about was reported to the ‘press’?

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Who says that everything the two of them talked about was reported to the ‘press’?
     
    No one. But we cannot judge what we don't know anything about. So why is ANON so confident that something useful was accomplished by the Trump Putin meeting?
  31. Wally says:
    @ANON
    Saker has 4 themes.

    1 I hate Poland. 2 I love Russia because it is so wonderful. 3 Trump and Putin never follow my advice. 4 Everything is wrong about the USA and nothing is right about the USA.

    So why doesn't he go back to Russia and agitate for a reconquest of Eastern Poland? He reminds me of every Russian Jew and their gr gr grandchildren who arrived since 1880. Endless kvetching about what's wrong with America and Americans and endless to creating problems where there were none.
    My neighborhood got a huge influx of Russian Jewish "refugees" escaping from Russian anti semitism and mindless prejudice. Endless complaining about everything. From 1880 to 2017 they leave Russia and then kvetch about America.

    That’s because Jews invent their ‘history’ in order to kvetch and demand money.

    Why have supremacist Jews have been marketing the ’6,000,000′ lie since at least 1869?

    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    https://6millionfairytale.wordpress.com/more-proof-six-million-is-a-lie/

    Read More
  32. Donald Trump is…. by many many orders of magnitude….a much greater terrorist threat than ISIS……

    The Alt Right urgently needs to distance itself from Donald Trump….

    Donald Trump:Greedy…Narcissistic…Psychopath….Chickenhawk…..War-Hawk….Draft Dodging Coward…..allegiance only to Israel….worst nightmare for the innocent children of Syria…Yemen…Iran….North Korea……Christian Russia…….just like CNN…….

    Read More
  33. The First Putin-Trump Meeting Yields…Something Very Close to Nothing

    From the point of view of the truly productive classes, that, or worse, is typically the case so no one should be surprised.

    They’re simply engaging in more theater of the absurd. Why would they even bother?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    I agree about the meeting. My reaction is so what? Saker uses his topic, in this case the meeting to launch into his eternal themes of I hate Poland and world leaders should do what I advise.
  34. I enjoy the magical saker – it’s all about war with this one, and the only war you’re supposed to believe exists is one with guns n’ shootin’ and who has the most weapons verus the other country. As if every American who manages to get out of bed in the morning is looking at a Reagan-era graph of how many fighter jets each side has and feels real anxiety because “they could get us”.

    Americans pay their rents, mortgages and bills and wonder how they are going to make it next month – they don’t buy the disinfo offered by the likes of Tom’s “CIA” Dispatch or the magical Sucker.

    The US military machine is the penultimate welfare queen bar none. They are at war with the remains of the middle class, their dignity and their autonomy. The US is not in a cold war, they are militarily and economically weak – their citizens are in the middle of a storm of fiction wrought by all of their media.

    The day will come, if it hasn’t already, where more prosperous countries will look at the US Police State with awe and pity for the citizens held captive by propaganda systems that rival any totalitarian hell of the 20th century.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ednels
    I liked the edifying Saker article as always, because it is ''thought provoking'', can always find something to further study… etc.

    Good comments section here, as it is maybe too highbrow for most trolls to engage, not to speak of the tiny font in one of the linked articles !

    Ben's comment: good, and I wonder about two points there:

    The US is not in a cold war, they are militarily and economically weak – their citizens are in the middle of a storm of fiction wrought by all of their media.
     
    could [media] be better put: Medium? Not a nitpick, just a quibble with the question of singular vs plural, in a case of something having morphed , unnoticed into something different. the many various independent little small town papers, and large ones too, Media that were so beneficial in the day, into a unitary (monolithic thing) with a number of store fronts. A thing that is obviously pretense of any independence. But hey, at least it is reassuring and calming... like the music in supermarkets...!

    The day will come, if it hasn’t already, where more prosperous countries will look at the US Police State with awe and pity for the citizens held captive by propaganda systems that rival any totalitarian hell of the 20th century.
     
    Could get worse, and these ''more prosperous countries'' may be in Awe, if not Shocked enough, to Ponder their own safety in any presumption of continued security as may have ever existed in prior times, to whether they can expect to be sheltered, or aloof from Danger by any Checks and Balancing mechanism from the Consent of a Well Informed Populous, in that country (the Seat of Democracy)?

    Will the Great American man in the street wake up a''Mr. Smith goes to Washington'')?

    What with the Opioid epidemic, (it's not just for Chinese anymores ) and Computor games, epidemic, the end of any education and wanton promulgation of idiocy and epicurean crap, it hardly seems the great America will lead any new vector to a new Age of Enlightenment, even… tangential to an ''improved state of '' the Informed… bladebla…

    Hey, AI is on the way with wonderful new gewgaws and stuff, but will be the end of most of the… Useless Feeders, like the Krell in a classic '50's SF movie. Da da da

    Sorry to wander I need to get something in the comments so I can get the agree/not button working again, thanks.
    , @jacques sheete
    Good comments there!
  35. KA says:
    @anon
    But through it all , the whining , blaming, complaining and snark you still live at USA instead of Russia. LoL indeed.

    your argument reminds me of the clueless hyper reflexive vacuous arguments based on racism and ignorance offered by the pro war cheer leaders in the run up to Iraq war . Their arguments were not argument but were condescending racist frothy attitudes derived from watching the neocons on the TV . They would ask people protesting war to leave America -” leave or love”

    They saw freedom, determination , endless victories, collective economic progress , personal sacrifices and
    courage in the incoming wars.

    The world has turned against America now asking it “to leave the world or love the world ” Love means follow the rules imposed by reality and imposed by human decency .
    2 are different .One can fight against human decency but the reality will march on .

    On another vein – people from Mexico Honduras Syria Iraq Afghanistan Nigeria Mail want to come here because …. you know why .. and it is not terror to inflict but to claim what has been destroyed by America ( West )

    Read More
  36. DaveE says:

    Let’s see: The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours, and Saker calls it irrelevant.

    You’ve just humiliated yourself (at best), once again.

    No, my friend, Trump just kicked the “anglo-zionists” (as you call them) where it really hurts. They may be permanently sterilized, too. They’ve promised more meetings. We’ll see.

    After a year of trying everything they could think of to destroy him, no less. Trump couldn’t have delivered a bigger one-finger salute to the a-z’s if he tried.

    It’s taken the “anglo-zionists” a few thousand years to set up their latest power-play to take over the world. In contrast, it took lest than a couple hours for a couple decent guys to send the bastards to intensive care.

    Stop trying to please your anti-zionist zionist (ala Gilad Atzmon) pals with obvious “damage control” hasbara BS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours
     
    Trump agreed to a ceasefire. It happened before: Obama agrees and - oops - the next day American planes bomb Syrian forces. And who ordered it, the president himself or a rogue organization inside (or outside?) Pentagon is anyone's guess. I think it's a wait&see at this point.
    , @jacques sheete

    Let’s see: The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours, and Saker calls it irrelevant.
     
    The only things 'they" allow us to see and hear what's in their interest. The real deals are taking place behind the scenes and most of us will remain clueless even long after the fact.

    In any case, the ultra-mega-rich are well positioned to profit either way, no doubt, and we almost never hear about what they're doing behind closed doors, not that the rest of us could do much about it in any case.

    In that regard, there's too much attention being paid to the buffoon in chief and most of us would likely benefit from refraining from focusing on it and figuring out ways to avoid supporting the trash that owns us.

    Anyone who denies that we, via the ruling apparatus in this country have long been owned, would likely benefit from reading this, which describes the influence that Goldman Sachs has had over key figures in the US government for decades. Note the date and try to argue that the situation is any better today:

    Weinberg Replaces Baruch
    by A.K. Chesterton

    The American Mercury, May 1959, pp. 132-137
    http://www.unz.org/Pub/AmMercury-1959may-00132
     
    Along with thanking RU for the ability to access info like that, I'd like to point out that it's very difficult, search engines notwithstanding, in any case to get info on the big bankers. Why would that be?
  37. @DaveE
    Let's see: The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours, and Saker calls it irrelevant.

    You've just humiliated yourself (at best), once again.

    No, my friend, Trump just kicked the "anglo-zionists" (as you call them) where it really hurts. They may be permanently sterilized, too. They've promised more meetings. We'll see.

    After a year of trying everything they could think of to destroy him, no less. Trump couldn't have delivered a bigger one-finger salute to the a-z's if he tried.

    It's taken the "anglo-zionists" a few thousand years to set up their latest power-play to take over the world. In contrast, it took lest than a couple hours for a couple decent guys to send the bastards to intensive care.

    Stop trying to please your anti-zionist zionist (ala Gilad Atzmon) pals with obvious "damage control" hasbara BS.

    The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours

    Trump agreed to a ceasefire. It happened before: Obama agrees and – oops – the next day American planes bomb Syrian forces. And who ordered it, the president himself or a rogue organization inside (or outside?) Pentagon is anyone’s guess. I think it’s a wait&see at this point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ben Banned
    The US decided to bomb Syrian forces - period. Same thing that happened in April. The US is very smart about how they send messages, first they launch cruise missles after the press has built an impressive strawman prior to doing so, a strawman that is only reinforced by a chorus of so-called opposing writers who strenously disagree with the strawman of the news cycle. This was very effective. No other discussion via the press was possible at that point - it was gas yes, or gas no - not "why are we in Syria anyway?" There happens to be a war in Syria (the war) and it's called an information war and it's a war like any other.

    Following any belligerent military action, such as a missle strike. a team of media advocators will build a soap opera that details who made the decision, why they did it and add in plenty of make believe drama.

    This is precisely what happened in April and will happen again. The "dueling" press is ensconsed in a fake debate - "they gassed or didn't gas" - the public is already brainwashed into accepting that "gas" means the US military can kill with impunity with 'politically correct' explosive weapons.

    Weeks later, we see a follow up broadcast, delivered over every lefty and righty media outlet that pretends to be a beacon of truth - The new fairy tale arrived from the institution of Seymour Hersh, a long standing CIA intermediary with adoring fans everywhere who somehow believe in media folk heros to show them the "truth".

    Hersh implied that it's ok to kill women and children more efficiently than My Lai once the intelligence guys say "it was gas". Hersh will never write such a thing, but he tries to make the case that it wasn't ok to launch missles, but otherwise would have been ok to kill women and children more efficiently than My Lai.

    Hersh writes that the intelligence guys - good guys this time - advised that there was no gas, but incidental gas from the rebels. This message (according to Hersh) was delivered but ignored by the evil politician Trump who "called the shots" and fired the missles anyway. Impressive bullshit. But do you see how it works? Everyone is convinced that Syria should be about the Orange Realtor and whether he is good or bad, allow yourself to be driven to stupidity, you can't resist.

    Hersh delivered a very convincing batch of non-sensical blather that scored a psychic double tap on the minds of the American sheep. Side show Trump, like most American politicians are employees and front men. Writers like Hersh or the Sucker are employees tasked first with persuasion and propaganda to keep your middling focus on the politicians.

    The US is losing it's place in the world partly because because its fairy tales no longer have credibilty with her citizens - even as they grow more fantastic, conspiratorial or pseudo-scientific. Each time the US military is firing weapons somewhere they are simultaneously aiming a stream of weaponized information directly at your head - this is something you must try to remember.
  38. Che Guava says:

    Dear the Saker,

    It was not that stupid term a ‘summit meeting’, by definition it was a side meeting.

    Read More
  39. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wally
    Who says that everything the two of them talked about was reported to the 'press'?

    Who says that everything the two of them talked about was reported to the ‘press’?

    No one. But we cannot judge what we don’t know anything about. So why is ANON so confident that something useful was accomplished by the Trump Putin meeting?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Ask anon, not me.

    Of course I do think that just meeting with Putin was a deserved affront to those promoting the desperately false narrative of 'Trump - Russia collusion'.

    the media & the Russian "Collusion" Investigation
    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/07/02/20170704_media_0.png

    , @ANON
    I'm not confident that anything was accomplished at the meeting. I just can't stand Saker and his 4 themes.

    1. I hate Poland. 2. Trump, Putin and other world leaders never follow my advice. 3. Russia is wonderful and perfect. 4. Everything about America is wrong.

    Because of his biases I don't believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.

    You believe Saker. I don't. Start a fight with someone else.
  40. Darin says:
    @Sparkon
    No, Darin. That's not how it's done.

    Please note how I gave an excerpt and link to support my comment. You, by contrast, tell me to go search the Russian Academy of Sciences website for articles on "climate change."


    Результаты поиска (8272)
     
    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process, one should not be surprised to find that the Russian Academy of Sciences has had a lot to say about it, but that doesn't mean the RAS supports theories about CAGW, runaway global warming, or any of the other hysterical nonsense being used to demonize coal, and legitimize wind turbines and solar arrays, which rely on subsidies to stay afloat.

    But if you've got it, bring it: direct quote and link, please, to support your argument.

    Here is a direct link to PCR's article as it appeared on Unz, with comments:

    https://www.unz.com/proberts/global-warming-is-real-say-the-academies-of-sciences-of-all-of-the-major-countries-but-a-handful-of-my-readers-know-better/

    6. Sparkon says:
    March 27, 2017 at 5:06 pm GMT • 400 Words


    No one disputes that there is global warming. Without global warming, large parts of N. America would still be buried under ice sheets a mile thick.

    All that ice melted or receded without humans playing any possible role because climate change is entirely natural, and it is an ongoing process. Climate has changed in the past, sometimes suddenly and drastically, and it will change again in the future, irrespective of how much of our wealth we squander trying to stop it, and in any event, human civilizations have prospered during periods of global warming, and they have crashed during periods of global cooling.
     

    PCR's follow-up:
    https://www.unz.com/proberts/global-warming-wrapup/

    As you wish.

    The chronogically latest result from http://www.ras.ru, from 7/7/2017

    http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx?id=77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx%3Fid%3D77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253&prev=search

    Google translated:

    Academician Igor Mokhov: Why Moscow is flooded with showers, and in Siberia – anomalous heat

    Who is Igor Mokhov?

    In the studio there is Igor Mohov, an academician, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a professor at the Moscow State University, a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. Hello.

    Seems like not insignificant person in RAS. If climate change is hoax, he shall know.

    2016, the Earth’s temperature reached its maximum values ​​for the last 4000 years, is it true?
    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data – this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades. For the last million years, there has never been such a concentration of carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere.



    And do the researchers have a clear understanding, what is the cause of global warming?
    Mokhov:
    - To date, according to the most detailed studies, both data analysis and model calculations show that it is impossible to explain modern climate changes, especially the last decades, without an anthropogenic factor. Therefore, this is a necessary element, although, of course, the models require further development and they develop very intensively.


    Mokhov:
    - In fact, what is happening now, it was already estimated several decades ago and was expected. And then they did not really believe that this could happen. We have already gone to the climate that was predicted before. And we are already living in a new climate that seemed incredible in the 50-60′s.

    And what about the Paris climate accord? Way to save the world?


    “And yet, for the moment, President Putin went to Paris, then Paris agreements were concluded, and before that we had some kind of Kyoto protocol, yes, which, as scientists say, did not work. That’s how it relates to that – the planet will be saved? – And what can I do for this?
    Mokhov:
    - Well, the Kyoto Protocol should not have led to any significant results, because it was, rather, an agreement such an economic and political and the first attempt at a global agreement that we do globally in terms of climate.
    Bacenin:
    - He was in what year?
    Mokhov:
    It’s 1997 year. From 1998 to 2012 and in 2012, it ended, its results are relatively small limitations in the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and they could lead only to small, insignificant changes at the level of climate variability. As for the Paris conference, in which, incidentally, I also participated, well, it was still not a scientific conference, but rather a political one, and here is an attempt again of such agreements, at the state level, a global agreement, although it is very difficult to do, Because different countries have different interests.

    etc, etc..

    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process

    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say “Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire.” and again fall asleep.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sparkon

    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say “Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire.” and again fall asleep.
     
    Incredible nonsense! But I suppose it does give us some insight to your labored logic, and also, the tactics of environmental extremists and eco-terrorists, eh? who've already made such threats about torching houses.

    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data – this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades.
     
    'Not much there, certainly not a statement from the Russian Academy of Sciences.

    Anyway, I've heard a couple of quips from Putin about global warming, but this should set the record straight:

    Russia’s Vladimir Putin said Thursday climate change was not caused by humans...
    [...]
    One day after visiting the Franz Josef Land archipelago in the Arctic, Putin claimed that icebergs had been melting for decades and suggested that global warming was not mankind’s fault.

     
    http://www.france24.com/en/20170331-russian-president-vladimir-putin-says-humans-not-responsible-climate-change

    So, as I have said, there would appear to be some common ground between the two leaders on at least this issue of global warming.

    I have a hunch the media may not get the full gondola with respect to what was discussed between Trump and Putin, but developments over the next several days to weeks may offer clues.
    , @Wally
    RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN, ‘GLOBAL WARMING A FRAUD’

    A significant hurdle confronting negotiators trying to develop a strong climate agreement in Paris in December comes from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has said “there is no global warming, that this is a fraud to restrain the industrial development of several countries including Russia,” as described by Stanislav Belkovsky, a Russian political analyst.

    Russia’s pledged carbon dioxide reductions ahead of the Paris talks reflect Putin’s skepticism. They actually amount to an increase in emissions. Russia has said its emissions will be “70 to 75 percent” of 1990 levels by 2030 – which amounts to an increase in emissions from 2012 levels since Russian emissions are currently far below the levels produced in the Soviet era.

    Putin’s skepticism dates from the early 2000s, when, according to Andrey Illarionov, Putin’s senior economic advisor at the time, his staff “did very, very extensive work trying to understand all sides of the climate debate. We found that, while climate change does exist, it is cyclical, and the anthropogenic role is very limited. It became clear that the climate is a complicated system and that, so far, the evidence presented for the need to ‘fight’ global warming was rather unfounded.”

    SOURCE: New York Times/Reuters
    , @Sowhat
    Excuse the off topic, here. Just can't allow this without a comment. Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don't know why. Yet, science, as they have through history, have jumped on the train. Mankind has a fair number that will buy the leftist agenda to tax and regulate without regard to common sense (whatever THAT is. Mankind is also audacious. CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter. A volcanic even is a different story. Good luck dealing with those.
    I've done a fair amount of searching, being the suspicious soul that I am, and there IS No ability to develop a "model" for past or future warming or cooling.
    Some scientist belive that Geology is the only ironclad déterminent of past temperature changes. I don't have the links on my tablet but, they are out there. The most outspoken geologist was Australian, if recall still is working. Future weather modeling is pseudoscience.
    , @Sowhat
    Excuse the off topic, here. Just can't allow this without a comment. Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don't know why. Yet, science, as they have through history, have jumped on the train. Mankind has a fair number that will buy the leftist agenda to tax and regulate without regard to common sense (whatever THAT is. Mankind is also audacious. CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter. A volcanic even is a different story. Good luck dealing with those.
    I've done a fair amount of searching, being the suspicious soul that I am, and there IS No ability to develop a "model" for past or future warming or cooling.
    Some scientist belive that Geology is the only ironclad déterminent of past temperature changes. I don't have the links on my tablet but, they are out there. The most outspoken geologist was Australian, if recall still is working. Future weather modeling is pseudoscience.

    Regarding the U.S. history of their "American Century", the goal of Total World Dominance, I enjoyed reading F. William Engdahl's The Lost Hegemon Whom The God's Would Destroy.
    He wrote that ancient words, attributed to Euripides, "Those whom the gods would destroy they first make mad." I see the U.S. doubling down, most recently in the The Ukraine and then Syria. They and Israel want access through Syria to the Mediterranean and will do anything to thwart designs by any Other. It now appears that Russia and China will reap from their new detente. Let's hope that the U.S. doesn't "go mad" and go ballistic.
  41. peterAUS says:
    @ANON
    Saker has 4 themes.

    1 I hate Poland. 2 I love Russia because it is so wonderful. 3 Trump and Putin never follow my advice. 4 Everything is wrong about the USA and nothing is right about the USA.

    So why doesn't he go back to Russia and agitate for a reconquest of Eastern Poland? He reminds me of every Russian Jew and their gr gr grandchildren who arrived since 1880. Endless kvetching about what's wrong with America and Americans and endless to creating problems where there were none.
    My neighborhood got a huge influx of Russian Jewish "refugees" escaping from Russian anti semitism and mindless prejudice. Endless complaining about everything. From 1880 to 2017 they leave Russia and then kvetch about America.

    Interesting, isn’t it?

    If Russia is so great, so better than the USA, and one so loves it, why doesn’t he/she simply go and live there?

    What feels really awkward isn’t the critique of The Empire.
    Plenty of that is more than justified.

    It’s glorifying Russia and the regime in Moscow.

    Interestingly enough, majority of “open and critical minds” here don’t even think about that…….discrepancy.

    Feels weird.
    Almost as there is inside joke somewhere there.

    I think it’s, for Westerners, combination of “virtue signalling” and desperation to find an alternative for The Empire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    I've been around Jews all my life. I think Saker is a Jew. It's just my opinion.
  42. @Mao Cheng Ji

    The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours
     
    Trump agreed to a ceasefire. It happened before: Obama agrees and - oops - the next day American planes bomb Syrian forces. And who ordered it, the president himself or a rogue organization inside (or outside?) Pentagon is anyone's guess. I think it's a wait&see at this point.

    The US decided to bomb Syrian forces – period. Same thing that happened in April. The US is very smart about how they send messages, first they launch cruise missles after the press has built an impressive strawman prior to doing so, a strawman that is only reinforced by a chorus of so-called opposing writers who strenously disagree with the strawman of the news cycle. This was very effective. No other discussion via the press was possible at that point – it was gas yes, or gas no – not “why are we in Syria anyway?” There happens to be a war in Syria (the war) and it’s called an information war and it’s a war like any other.

    Following any belligerent military action, such as a missle strike. a team of media advocators will build a soap opera that details who made the decision, why they did it and add in plenty of make believe drama.

    This is precisely what happened in April and will happen again. The “dueling” press is ensconsed in a fake debate – “they gassed or didn’t gas” – the public is already brainwashed into accepting that “gas” means the US military can kill with impunity with ‘politically correct’ explosive weapons.

    Weeks later, we see a follow up broadcast, delivered over every lefty and righty media outlet that pretends to be a beacon of truth – The new fairy tale arrived from the institution of Seymour Hersh, a long standing CIA intermediary with adoring fans everywhere who somehow believe in media folk heros to show them the “truth”.

    Hersh implied that it’s ok to kill women and children more efficiently than My Lai once the intelligence guys say “it was gas”. Hersh will never write such a thing, but he tries to make the case that it wasn’t ok to launch missles, but otherwise would have been ok to kill women and children more efficiently than My Lai.

    Hersh writes that the intelligence guys – good guys this time – advised that there was no gas, but incidental gas from the rebels. This message (according to Hersh) was delivered but ignored by the evil politician Trump who “called the shots” and fired the missles anyway. Impressive bullshit. But do you see how it works? Everyone is convinced that Syria should be about the Orange Realtor and whether he is good or bad, allow yourself to be driven to stupidity, you can’t resist.

    Hersh delivered a very convincing batch of non-sensical blather that scored a psychic double tap on the minds of the American sheep. Side show Trump, like most American politicians are employees and front men. Writers like Hersh or the Sucker are employees tasked first with persuasion and propaganda to keep your middling focus on the politicians.

    The US is losing it’s place in the world partly because because its fairy tales no longer have credibilty with her citizens – even as they grow more fantastic, conspiratorial or pseudo-scientific. Each time the US military is firing weapons somewhere they are simultaneously aiming a stream of weaponized information directly at your head – this is something you must try to remember.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    To clarify, I was talking about the Deir ez-Zor aerial attack Sept 17 last year:
    http://theduran.com/as-moscow-complains-about-us-foot-dragging-washingtons-throws-a-tantrum-bombs-syrian-troops-and-helps-isis/
  43. Ednels says:
    @Ben Banned
    I enjoy the magical saker - it's all about war with this one, and the only war you're supposed to believe exists is one with guns n' shootin' and who has the most weapons verus the other country. As if every American who manages to get out of bed in the morning is looking at a Reagan-era graph of how many fighter jets each side has and feels real anxiety because "they could get us".

    Americans pay their rents, mortgages and bills and wonder how they are going to make it next month - they don't buy the disinfo offered by the likes of Tom's "CIA" Dispatch or the magical Sucker.

    The US military machine is the penultimate welfare queen bar none. They are at war with the remains of the middle class, their dignity and their autonomy. The US is not in a cold war, they are militarily and economically weak - their citizens are in the middle of a storm of fiction wrought by all of their media.

    The day will come, if it hasn't already, where more prosperous countries will look at the US Police State with awe and pity for the citizens held captive by propaganda systems that rival any totalitarian hell of the 20th century.

    I liked the edifying Saker article as always, because it is ”thought provoking”, can always find something to further study… etc.

    Good comments section here, as it is maybe too highbrow for most trolls to engage, not to speak of the tiny font in one of the linked articles !

    Ben’s comment: good, and I wonder about two points there:

    The US is not in a cold war, they are militarily and economically weak – their citizens are in the middle of a storm of fiction wrought by all of their media.

    could [media] be better put: Medium? Not a nitpick, just a quibble with the question of singular vs plural, in a case of something having morphed , unnoticed into something different. the many various independent little small town papers, and large ones too, Media that were so beneficial in the day, into a unitary (monolithic thing) with a number of store fronts. A thing that is obviously pretense of any independence. But hey, at least it is reassuring and calming… like the music in supermarkets…!

    The day will come, if it hasn’t already, where more prosperous countries will look at the US Police State with awe and pity for the citizens held captive by propaganda systems that rival any totalitarian hell of the 20th century.

    Could get worse, and these ”more prosperous countries” may be in Awe, if not Shocked enough, to Ponder their own safety in any presumption of continued security as may have ever existed in prior times, to whether they can expect to be sheltered, or aloof from Danger by any Checks and Balancing mechanism from the Consent of a Well Informed Populous, in that country (the Seat of Democracy)?

    Will the Great American man in the street wake up a”Mr. Smith goes to Washington”)?

    What with the Opioid epidemic, (it’s not just for Chinese anymores ) and Computor games, epidemic, the end of any education and wanton promulgation of idiocy and epicurean crap, it hardly seems the great America will lead any new vector to a new Age of Enlightenment, even… tangential to an ”improved state of ” the Informed… bladebla…

    Hey, AI is on the way with wonderful new gewgaws and stuff, but will be the end of most of the… Useless Feeders, like the Krell in a classic ’50′s SF movie. Da da da

    Sorry to wander I need to get something in the comments so I can get the agree/not button working again, thanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    ...the end of any education...
     
    It ended long before Upton Sinclair wrote, in the 1920s, about its demise.

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it was always intended to be training (aka brainwashing), not education, and it has been depressingly effective.

    Sinclair's 2 books, "The Goslings," and "The Goosestep," deal with the problem of corporate ownership of the schooling racket back in the '20s.

    John Taylor Gatto also is full of good info on the subject.

    “According to James Bryant Conant… in a perfectly frightening book called The Child, The Parent, and the State (1949), the school transformation had been ordered by ‘certain industrialists and the innovative who were altering the nature of the industrial process.’"

    Conant is a school name that resonates through the central third of the twentieth century. He waspresident of Harvard from 1933 to 1953."

    J. T. Gatto , An Underground History of American Education

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/ughoae.pdf

  44. mad1 says:
    @Max Havelaar
    Another ceasefire for Israël, when they loose ground in Syria...

    A nice geste by Putin, to get talks started, probably. Russian diplomatic effort, which will sink in the swamp! :D

    Trump and Putin do seem to get along, but Trump is under Mike Pence's controll: War, war, and War for Israël and Exxon-mobile.

    How soon and how the Syrian slitup will be, that is the question.

    Were you aware that before the silly US sanctions began that Exxon Mobil’s single largest exploration project in the world was in partnership with Rosneft in Siberia?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Max Havelaar
    Certainly, Exxon-mobile and Russia have many mutual financial interests, like in the Arctic. This is why T-Rex got a Russian medal, or something form Putin. :D

    In the Syrian case, the Iranian- Irak-Syria-EU oil pipeline competes with US-Israël-Qatar-Saud plans for oil/gas lines.

    It is a likely reason for US foreign policy makers, to start a war. Or not?
  45. Sparkon says:
    @Darin
    As you wish.

    The chronogically latest result from www.ras.ru, from 7/7/2017

    http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx?id=77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx%3Fid%3D77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253&prev=search

    Google translated:

    Academician Igor Mokhov: Why Moscow is flooded with showers, and in Siberia - anomalous heat
    ...
    Who is Igor Mokhov?

    In the studio there is Igor Mohov, an academician, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a professor at the Moscow State University, a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. Hello.

    Seems like not insignificant person in RAS. If climate change is hoax, he shall know.
    ...
    2016, the Earth's temperature reached its maximum values ​​for the last 4000 years, is it true?
    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data - this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades. For the last million years, there has never been such a concentration of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere.

    ...

    And do the researchers have a clear understanding, what is the cause of global warming?
    Mokhov:
    - To date, according to the most detailed studies, both data analysis and model calculations show that it is impossible to explain modern climate changes, especially the last decades, without an anthropogenic factor. Therefore, this is a necessary element, although, of course, the models require further development and they develop very intensively.

    ...
    Mokhov:
    - In fact, what is happening now, it was already estimated several decades ago and was expected. And then they did not really believe that this could happen. We have already gone to the climate that was predicted before. And we are already living in a new climate that seemed incredible in the 50-60's.

    ...

    And what about the Paris climate accord? Way to save the world?


    "And yet, for the moment, President Putin went to Paris, then Paris agreements were concluded, and before that we had some kind of Kyoto protocol, yes, which, as scientists say, did not work. That's how it relates to that - the planet will be saved? - And what can I do for this?
    Mokhov:
    - Well, the Kyoto Protocol should not have led to any significant results, because it was, rather, an agreement such an economic and political and the first attempt at a global agreement that we do globally in terms of climate.
    Bacenin:
    - He was in what year?
    Mokhov:
    It's 1997 year. From 1998 to 2012 and in 2012, it ended, its results are relatively small limitations in the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and they could lead only to small, insignificant changes at the level of climate variability. As for the Paris conference, in which, incidentally, I also participated, well, it was still not a scientific conference, but rather a political one, and here is an attempt again of such agreements, at the state level, a global agreement, although it is very difficult to do, Because different countries have different interests.

    etc, etc..

    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process
     
    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say "Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire." and again fall asleep.

    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say “Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire.” and again fall asleep.

    Incredible nonsense! But I suppose it does give us some insight to your labored logic, and also, the tactics of environmental extremists and eco-terrorists, eh? who’ve already made such threats about torching houses.

    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data – this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades.

    ‘Not much there, certainly not a statement from the Russian Academy of Sciences.

    Anyway, I’ve heard a couple of quips from Putin about global warming, but this should set the record straight:

    Russia’s Vladimir Putin said Thursday climate change was not caused by humans…
    [...]
    One day after visiting the Franz Josef Land archipelago in the Arctic, Putin claimed that icebergs had been melting for decades and suggested that global warming was not mankind’s fault.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20170331-russian-president-vladimir-putin-says-humans-not-responsible-climate-change

    So, as I have said, there would appear to be some common ground between the two leaders on at least this issue of global warming.

    I have a hunch the media may not get the full gondola with respect to what was discussed between Trump and Putin, but developments over the next several days to weeks may offer clues.

    Read More
  46. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Who says that everything the two of them talked about was reported to the ‘press’?
     
    No one. But we cannot judge what we don't know anything about. So why is ANON so confident that something useful was accomplished by the Trump Putin meeting?

    Ask anon, not me.

    Of course I do think that just meeting with Putin was a deserved affront to those promoting the desperately false narrative of ‘Trump – Russia collusion’.

    the media & the Russian “Collusion” Investigation

    Read More
  47. Wally says: • Website
    @Darin
    As you wish.

    The chronogically latest result from www.ras.ru, from 7/7/2017

    http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx?id=77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx%3Fid%3D77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253&prev=search

    Google translated:

    Academician Igor Mokhov: Why Moscow is flooded with showers, and in Siberia - anomalous heat
    ...
    Who is Igor Mokhov?

    In the studio there is Igor Mohov, an academician, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a professor at the Moscow State University, a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. Hello.

    Seems like not insignificant person in RAS. If climate change is hoax, he shall know.
    ...
    2016, the Earth's temperature reached its maximum values ​​for the last 4000 years, is it true?
    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data - this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades. For the last million years, there has never been such a concentration of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere.

    ...

    And do the researchers have a clear understanding, what is the cause of global warming?
    Mokhov:
    - To date, according to the most detailed studies, both data analysis and model calculations show that it is impossible to explain modern climate changes, especially the last decades, without an anthropogenic factor. Therefore, this is a necessary element, although, of course, the models require further development and they develop very intensively.

    ...
    Mokhov:
    - In fact, what is happening now, it was already estimated several decades ago and was expected. And then they did not really believe that this could happen. We have already gone to the climate that was predicted before. And we are already living in a new climate that seemed incredible in the 50-60's.

    ...

    And what about the Paris climate accord? Way to save the world?


    "And yet, for the moment, President Putin went to Paris, then Paris agreements were concluded, and before that we had some kind of Kyoto protocol, yes, which, as scientists say, did not work. That's how it relates to that - the planet will be saved? - And what can I do for this?
    Mokhov:
    - Well, the Kyoto Protocol should not have led to any significant results, because it was, rather, an agreement such an economic and political and the first attempt at a global agreement that we do globally in terms of climate.
    Bacenin:
    - He was in what year?
    Mokhov:
    It's 1997 year. From 1998 to 2012 and in 2012, it ended, its results are relatively small limitations in the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and they could lead only to small, insignificant changes at the level of climate variability. As for the Paris conference, in which, incidentally, I also participated, well, it was still not a scientific conference, but rather a political one, and here is an attempt again of such agreements, at the state level, a global agreement, although it is very difficult to do, Because different countries have different interests.

    etc, etc..

    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process
     
    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say "Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire." and again fall asleep.

    RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN, ‘GLOBAL WARMING A FRAUD’

    A significant hurdle confronting negotiators trying to develop a strong climate agreement in Paris in December comes from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has said “there is no global warming, that this is a fraud to restrain the industrial development of several countries including Russia,” as described by Stanislav Belkovsky, a Russian political analyst.

    Russia’s pledged carbon dioxide reductions ahead of the Paris talks reflect Putin’s skepticism. They actually amount to an increase in emissions. Russia has said its emissions will be “70 to 75 percent” of 1990 levels by 2030 – which amounts to an increase in emissions from 2012 levels since Russian emissions are currently far below the levels produced in the Soviet era.

    Putin’s skepticism dates from the early 2000s, when, according to Andrey Illarionov, Putin’s senior economic advisor at the time, his staff “did very, very extensive work trying to understand all sides of the climate debate. We found that, while climate change does exist, it is cyclical, and the anthropogenic role is very limited. It became clear that the climate is a complicated system and that, so far, the evidence presented for the need to ‘fight’ global warming was rather unfounded.”

    SOURCE: New York Times/Reuters

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    I, like Putin believe global warming is a fraud. Great minds think alike.

    Back in the late 1970s when I was a kid I remember seeing a Newsweek cover in the library. Cover was a picture of glaciers and title was "the coming ice age". There was a book, "nuclear winter" . That book claimed that the new ice age would be caused by American, not Russian, French, British or Chinese nuclear testing. There were a few more books about the new ice age at the time.

    The media and the soi disant scientists lied then and they are lying now.
  48. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @peterAUS
    Interesting, isn't it?

    If Russia is so great, so better than the USA, and one so loves it, why doesn't he/she simply go and live there?

    What feels really awkward isn't the critique of The Empire.
    Plenty of that is more than justified.

    It's glorifying Russia and the regime in Moscow.

    Interestingly enough, majority of "open and critical minds" here don't even think about that.......discrepancy.

    Feels weird.
    Almost as there is inside joke somewhere there.

    I think it's, for Westerners, combination of "virtue signalling" and desperation to find an alternative for The Empire.

    I’ve been around Jews all my life. I think Saker is a Jew. It’s just my opinion.

    Read More
  49. Art says:
    @vinteuil
    Did you notice that Charles Schumer is angry at Trump for being insufficiently anti-Russian?

    Did you notice that Charles Schumer is angry at Trump for being insufficiently anti-Russian?

    More and more it is becoming obvious, that the 15,000,000 strong Jew matrix is at at odds with America’s interests. Israel Schumer shouts it out every time he opens his mouth.

    He displays and propagates the seed of endless confrontation the marks the Jew matrix. He is venom and poison to the American body politic.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
  50. Z-man says:

    I’ll tell you why Neokhans hate ‘Czar Putin the First’ so much. Because he re-introduced and reinforced Christianity to Mother Russia. Putin Da!!!! And ‘they’ still don’t trust Donald because they don’t completely own him, even though it has seemed that way at times. Don take care.. for the evil doers are all around you. But lets hope for the best, Putin/Trump Axis 2017-25!

    Read More
  51. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @CanSpeccy

    Who says that everything the two of them talked about was reported to the ‘press’?
     
    No one. But we cannot judge what we don't know anything about. So why is ANON so confident that something useful was accomplished by the Trump Putin meeting?

    I’m not confident that anything was accomplished at the meeting. I just can’t stand Saker and his 4 themes.

    1. I hate Poland. 2. Trump, Putin and other world leaders never follow my advice. 3. Russia is wonderful and perfect. 4. Everything about America is wrong.

    Because of his biases I don’t believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.

    You believe Saker. I don’t. Start a fight with someone else.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Similar here.

    As:
    Russia is so much better than USA for everything I find important in my life.
    But I live in USA, and have no current plans to move to live in Russia.

    Now, having said that, well, there are some posts and analysis he wrote that I, personally, found very good.
    So, as with any presented material, there are good and bad points; one just needs to recognize them.

    In his case, yes, those about Russia, Russian armed forces in particular, and especially comparisons with US military,I find really biased, hence, not good at best and intentionally misleading at worst.

    , @anon

    Because of his biases I don’t believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.
     
    That quip applies to 99% of the writers at UNZ. CNN UNZ 2 sides of the same coin.
    , @Wally
    'Trump: Meeting with Putin ‘tremendous’ '
    http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/341084-trump-meeting-with-putin-tremendous
    , @jacques sheete

    Because of his biases I don’t believe a word he writes.
     
    That's actually a good policy to apply to everyone, except me, of course ! ;)
  52. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @jacques sheete

    The First Putin-Trump Meeting Yields…Something Very Close to Nothing
     
    From the point of view of the truly productive classes, that, or worse, is typically the case so no one should be surprised.




    They're simply engaging in more theater of the absurd. Why would they even bother?

    I agree about the meeting. My reaction is so what? Saker uses his topic, in this case the meeting to launch into his eternal themes of I hate Poland and world leaders should do what I advise.

    Read More
  53. Hrw-500 says:

    I guess we could forget the interpretations then some folks pondered about some of Edgar Cayce’s prophecies thinking then….Russia will save the US, unless there’s a hidden ace somewhere.

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=133567

    Some bloggers and vloggers debunk this like Josh Peck, Paul Begley, jsnip4.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    And Nostradamus predicted president Kennedy's assassination, the atom bomb, the moon landing and HIV AIDS.
  54. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Greg Bacon

    According to RT, Russia and the US agreed on a ceasefire in the Daraa, Quneitra and As-Suwayda provinces of Syria.
     
    Wow, what a coincidence that this 'ceasefire' is adjacent to the stolen Golan, that water and oil rich part of Syria the Israelis STOLE during their 1967 War of Aggression.

    This will give Israel time to get all those wounded jihadists medical care in those Golan field hospitals and at the Ziv Medical Center in Safed, Israel. And give the quisling US Congress time to reimburse Israel for all those shekels spent caring for and paying the salaries of ISIS/DAESH/al Nusra terrorists.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/israel-risking-lives-elite-troops-save-syria-jihadis/ri11828

    Pat Lang has a diametrically opposed view the Cease Fire; he thinks Israel won’t like it:

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/israel-cannot-be-pleased-with-tomorrows-sw-cease-fire-in-syria.html

    “[Israelis] seem to think that a jihadi controlled buffer zone between them and Damascus is better for them than Syrian government control. They do this in spite of the factoid that until the civil war began in Syria, there had been quiet along the front there for a long time.

    The Israelis are unable to cope with the missile and artillery rocket threat from Hizbullah north of the present front line north of the present line of contact. They know that. Neither air attacks or a possible massive Israeli ground attack into Lebanon would prevent HB firing a lot of their arsenal (30,000 weapons) into the northern half of Israel.

    Their belief is that if they take down the Syrian government they can achieve an operational level envelopment of Hizbullah’s firing positions in Lebanon.

    They also believe that defeat of the SAG would fatally wound the Iranian government politically.

    None of that seems very likely to me but the scheme fits well with US enmity toward the Syrian government.

    Lang’s closing is delicious:

    Why did Trump and Tillerson agree to this “deal?” I doubt that they understand the military situation and Kushner was not in the room to argue for the Israeli interest. pl”

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    To judge by Netanyahu's comments, Lang is right.
  55. peterAUS says:
    @ANON
    I'm not confident that anything was accomplished at the meeting. I just can't stand Saker and his 4 themes.

    1. I hate Poland. 2. Trump, Putin and other world leaders never follow my advice. 3. Russia is wonderful and perfect. 4. Everything about America is wrong.

    Because of his biases I don't believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.

    You believe Saker. I don't. Start a fight with someone else.

    Similar here.

    As:
    Russia is so much better than USA for everything I find important in my life.
    But I live in USA, and have no current plans to move to live in Russia.

    Now, having said that, well, there are some posts and analysis he wrote that I, personally, found very good.
    So, as with any presented material, there are good and bad points; one just needs to recognize them.

    In his case, yes, those about Russia, Russian armed forces in particular, and especially comparisons with US military,I find really biased, hence, not good at best and intentionally misleading at worst.

    Read More
  56. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @Wally
    RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN, ‘GLOBAL WARMING A FRAUD’

    A significant hurdle confronting negotiators trying to develop a strong climate agreement in Paris in December comes from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has said “there is no global warming, that this is a fraud to restrain the industrial development of several countries including Russia,” as described by Stanislav Belkovsky, a Russian political analyst.

    Russia’s pledged carbon dioxide reductions ahead of the Paris talks reflect Putin’s skepticism. They actually amount to an increase in emissions. Russia has said its emissions will be “70 to 75 percent” of 1990 levels by 2030 – which amounts to an increase in emissions from 2012 levels since Russian emissions are currently far below the levels produced in the Soviet era.

    Putin’s skepticism dates from the early 2000s, when, according to Andrey Illarionov, Putin’s senior economic advisor at the time, his staff “did very, very extensive work trying to understand all sides of the climate debate. We found that, while climate change does exist, it is cyclical, and the anthropogenic role is very limited. It became clear that the climate is a complicated system and that, so far, the evidence presented for the need to ‘fight’ global warming was rather unfounded.”

    SOURCE: New York Times/Reuters

    I, like Putin believe global warming is a fraud. Great minds think alike.

    Back in the late 1970s when I was a kid I remember seeing a Newsweek cover in the library. Cover was a picture of glaciers and title was “the coming ice age”. There was a book, “nuclear winter” . That book claimed that the new ice age would be caused by American, not Russian, French, British or Chinese nuclear testing. There were a few more books about the new ice age at the time.

    The media and the soi disant scientists lied then and they are lying now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    The media and the soi disant scientists lied then and they are lying now.
     
    What the "soi disant scientists" are saying is really not of much interest, whether true or false.

    What the real scientists are saying is that the world is warmer today than it has been just about anytime since the early 17th Century. In that, they are probably correct.

    You refer to a book entitled "Nuclear Winter" but omit to mention the name of the author, so we don't know whether he was a "soi disant scientist" or someone who knew what they were talking about. However, the contention that an all out nuclear war would rather spoil the summer seems entirely plausible and is probably supported by serious consideration of the consequences of massive uncontrolled conflagrations of forests, cities, oil fields etc. plus other effects of multiple nuclear blasts. Dismissing it as just a bunch of lies, without any consideration of the actual arguments and supporting facts is, well, the sort of thing a "soi disant" scientist would do.

    The actual climate scientists are, mostly, serious, competent and honest. There may be some rotten apples, people who misrepresent results etc. But the great majority of climate scientists are simply trying to deal with a complex reality as best the can. The recent paper by Santer, et al. acknowledging that the current pause in the increase in global temperature is outside the likely range predicted by the climate models, confirms the basic integrity of the scientific process, if not the wisdom of devoting so much time, money and brainpower attempting to model something that may be impossible to model with any reliability.

    More useful, it seems to me, would have been to look more closely at the impact of rising atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on the biosphere, one consequence of which is a huge increase in global primary production and hence in the size of the human population that can be supported in, for example, Africa (projected to reach at least two to four billion within sixty years).

  57. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @Hrw-500
    I guess we could forget the interpretations then some folks pondered about some of Edgar Cayce's prophecies thinking then....Russia will save the US, unless there's a hidden ace somewhere.
    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=133567


    Some bloggers and vloggers debunk this like Josh Peck, Paul Begley, jsnip4.

    And Nostradamus predicted president Kennedy’s assassination, the atom bomb, the moon landing and HIV AIDS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hrw-500
    We could compare that with the predictions of Baba Vanga and/or Siener Van Rensberg. ;-)

    Back to the main subject, we could compare the article of the Saker with the point of view of John Derbyshire https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/thank-you-for-warsaw-mr-president-and-especially-for-mentioning-katyn-massacre/ as well the observation of the Russo-Chinese "alliance" as mentionned by Andrei Martyanov. https://www.unz.com/article/the-russo-chinese-alliance-explained/
  58. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    … unless Trump and Putin are keeping something really important secret, it seems that this summit has yielded exactly what I feared it would: nothing …

    The Trump Putin meeting was followed by a couple of significant comments from Putin.

    First, Putin said:

    Trump in real life is completely different from his television persona

    which could mean almost anything but suggests that contrary to the campaign trail assertion ” wouldn’t it be good if we could get along with Russia,” Trump is as committed as was Obama to dominating Russia.

    Second, concerning the future of President Assad, Putin said:

    The US Secretary of State is not a citizen of Syria and has no right to talk about its future and the fate of its president. This shall only be decided by the Syrian people.

    So we appear to have learned something from the meeting, which is that the US is still seeking to piss on Russia and Russia is telling the US to go piss up a rope. Not a very encouraging outcome.

    Read More
  59. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @ANON
    I'm not confident that anything was accomplished at the meeting. I just can't stand Saker and his 4 themes.

    1. I hate Poland. 2. Trump, Putin and other world leaders never follow my advice. 3. Russia is wonderful and perfect. 4. Everything about America is wrong.

    Because of his biases I don't believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.

    You believe Saker. I don't. Start a fight with someone else.

    Because of his biases I don’t believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.

    That quip applies to 99% of the writers at UNZ. CNN UNZ 2 sides of the same coin.

    Read More
  60. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @ANON
    I, like Putin believe global warming is a fraud. Great minds think alike.

    Back in the late 1970s when I was a kid I remember seeing a Newsweek cover in the library. Cover was a picture of glaciers and title was "the coming ice age". There was a book, "nuclear winter" . That book claimed that the new ice age would be caused by American, not Russian, French, British or Chinese nuclear testing. There were a few more books about the new ice age at the time.

    The media and the soi disant scientists lied then and they are lying now.

    The media and the soi disant scientists lied then and they are lying now.

    What the “soi disant scientists” are saying is really not of much interest, whether true or false.

    What the real scientists are saying is that the world is warmer today than it has been just about anytime since the early 17th Century. In that, they are probably correct.

    You refer to a book entitled “Nuclear Winter” but omit to mention the name of the author, so we don’t know whether he was a “soi disant scientist” or someone who knew what they were talking about. However, the contention that an all out nuclear war would rather spoil the summer seems entirely plausible and is probably supported by serious consideration of the consequences of massive uncontrolled conflagrations of forests, cities, oil fields etc. plus other effects of multiple nuclear blasts. Dismissing it as just a bunch of lies, without any consideration of the actual arguments and supporting facts is, well, the sort of thing a “soi disant” scientist would do.

    The actual climate scientists are, mostly, serious, competent and honest. There may be some rotten apples, people who misrepresent results etc. But the great majority of climate scientists are simply trying to deal with a complex reality as best the can. The recent paper by Santer, et al. acknowledging that the current pause in the increase in global temperature is outside the likely range predicted by the climate models, confirms the basic integrity of the scientific process, if not the wisdom of devoting so much time, money and brainpower attempting to model something that may be impossible to model with any reliability.

    More useful, it seems to me, would have been to look more closely at the impact of rising atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on the biosphere, one consequence of which is a huge increase in global primary production and hence in the size of the human population that can be supported in, for example, Africa (projected to reach at least two to four billion within sixty years).

    Read More
  61. Trump looks for me just like that poor hedgehog in the fog from excellent Soviet cartoon.he has no team, he lacks character, he is not loyal to anyone and thus no one is loyal to him. He has no clue. He is pathetic. He does not behave in presidential way or any adequate serious way and he does not control anything. I saw Putin looks and body language and that’s enough for me. I was right about Trump even before Sacker after watching him in elections. The only good thing is unlike Obama he and Putin do not have extreme mutual dislike and can talk.

    Read More
  62. Syria is proof that border control is totally essential for the well-being of a nation.

    If the Syrian government had NOT lost control of its borders and prevented the entry of so many foreign Jihadis, the war would have ended long ago.

    Syrian Civil War was a low-level world war. While the Syrian regime gave Russia and Iran permission to enter, all the other forces entered by violating the national sovereignty of Syria.

    This is what happens to a nation when border controls are gone.

    Given what has happened to Syria as the result of border-disorder(aka disborder), why would Open Borders be good for Europe?

    Read More
  63. Germany, the nation of ‘black blockheads’ and Afro-Islamo-invasion.

    Read More
  64. Wally says:
    @ANON
    I'm not confident that anything was accomplished at the meeting. I just can't stand Saker and his 4 themes.

    1. I hate Poland. 2. Trump, Putin and other world leaders never follow my advice. 3. Russia is wonderful and perfect. 4. Everything about America is wrong.

    Because of his biases I don't believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.

    You believe Saker. I don't. Start a fight with someone else.
    Read More
  65. @Ben Banned
    The US decided to bomb Syrian forces - period. Same thing that happened in April. The US is very smart about how they send messages, first they launch cruise missles after the press has built an impressive strawman prior to doing so, a strawman that is only reinforced by a chorus of so-called opposing writers who strenously disagree with the strawman of the news cycle. This was very effective. No other discussion via the press was possible at that point - it was gas yes, or gas no - not "why are we in Syria anyway?" There happens to be a war in Syria (the war) and it's called an information war and it's a war like any other.

    Following any belligerent military action, such as a missle strike. a team of media advocators will build a soap opera that details who made the decision, why they did it and add in plenty of make believe drama.

    This is precisely what happened in April and will happen again. The "dueling" press is ensconsed in a fake debate - "they gassed or didn't gas" - the public is already brainwashed into accepting that "gas" means the US military can kill with impunity with 'politically correct' explosive weapons.

    Weeks later, we see a follow up broadcast, delivered over every lefty and righty media outlet that pretends to be a beacon of truth - The new fairy tale arrived from the institution of Seymour Hersh, a long standing CIA intermediary with adoring fans everywhere who somehow believe in media folk heros to show them the "truth".

    Hersh implied that it's ok to kill women and children more efficiently than My Lai once the intelligence guys say "it was gas". Hersh will never write such a thing, but he tries to make the case that it wasn't ok to launch missles, but otherwise would have been ok to kill women and children more efficiently than My Lai.

    Hersh writes that the intelligence guys - good guys this time - advised that there was no gas, but incidental gas from the rebels. This message (according to Hersh) was delivered but ignored by the evil politician Trump who "called the shots" and fired the missles anyway. Impressive bullshit. But do you see how it works? Everyone is convinced that Syria should be about the Orange Realtor and whether he is good or bad, allow yourself to be driven to stupidity, you can't resist.

    Hersh delivered a very convincing batch of non-sensical blather that scored a psychic double tap on the minds of the American sheep. Side show Trump, like most American politicians are employees and front men. Writers like Hersh or the Sucker are employees tasked first with persuasion and propaganda to keep your middling focus on the politicians.

    The US is losing it's place in the world partly because because its fairy tales no longer have credibilty with her citizens - even as they grow more fantastic, conspiratorial or pseudo-scientific. Each time the US military is firing weapons somewhere they are simultaneously aiming a stream of weaponized information directly at your head - this is something you must try to remember.
    Read More
  66. 5371 says:
    @anon
    Pat Lang has a diametrically opposed view the Cease Fire; he thinks Israel won't like it:

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/israel-cannot-be-pleased-with-tomorrows-sw-cease-fire-in-syria.html

    "[Israelis] seem to think that a jihadi controlled buffer zone between them and Damascus is better for them than Syrian government control. They do this in spite of the factoid that until the civil war began in Syria, there had been quiet along the front there for a long time.

    The Israelis are unable to cope with the missile and artillery rocket threat from Hizbullah north of the present front line north of the present line of contact. They know that. Neither air attacks or a possible massive Israeli ground attack into Lebanon would prevent HB firing a lot of their arsenal (30,000 weapons) into the northern half of Israel.

    Their belief is that if they take down the Syrian government they can achieve an operational level envelopment of Hizbullah's firing positions in Lebanon.

    They also believe that defeat of the SAG would fatally wound the Iranian government politically.

    None of that seems very likely to me but the scheme fits well with US enmity toward the Syrian government.
     

    Lang's closing is delicious:

    Why did Trump and Tillerson agree to this "deal?" I doubt that they understand the military situation and Kushner was not in the room to argue for the Israeli interest. pl"
     

    To judge by Netanyahu’s comments, Lang is right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    If the US gave Israel half the world, Netanyahu would be moaning about not getting the other half.

    It's hard to see the ceasefire as anything but an admission of defeat for the moment by both sides in the SW. Israeli-backed terrorists have failed to gain significant footholds in the cities of the region, but government forces have failed to push them out of Syria completely (mostly because of Israeli and US backing). If anything, though, my impression had been that the government forces were getting the better of the fighting there.

    Unless the ceasefire is a cover for a US/Israeli withdrawal from trying to maintain a jihadist foothold in SW Syria, which seems unlikely, it will just be an opportunity for the terrorists to be rested, reinforced and regrouped. On the other hand it does allow the government to focus on more important areas such as reducing remaining pockets of terrorists further north and pushing east to relieve Deir Ezzor.

    Doesn't look like a big victory or concession in itself for either side (which is probably why it happened).
  67. @mad1
    Were you aware that before the silly US sanctions began that Exxon Mobil's single largest exploration project in the world was in partnership with Rosneft in Siberia?

    Certainly, Exxon-mobile and Russia have many mutual financial interests, like in the Arctic. This is why T-Rex got a Russian medal, or something form Putin. :D

    In the Syrian case, the Iranian- Irak-Syria-EU oil pipeline competes with US-Israël-Qatar-Saud plans for oil/gas lines.

    It is a likely reason for US foreign policy makers, to start a war. Or not?

    Read More
  68. Randal says:
    @5371
    To judge by Netanyahu's comments, Lang is right.

    If the US gave Israel half the world, Netanyahu would be moaning about not getting the other half.

    It’s hard to see the ceasefire as anything but an admission of defeat for the moment by both sides in the SW. Israeli-backed terrorists have failed to gain significant footholds in the cities of the region, but government forces have failed to push them out of Syria completely (mostly because of Israeli and US backing). If anything, though, my impression had been that the government forces were getting the better of the fighting there.

    Unless the ceasefire is a cover for a US/Israeli withdrawal from trying to maintain a jihadist foothold in SW Syria, which seems unlikely, it will just be an opportunity for the terrorists to be rested, reinforced and regrouped. On the other hand it does allow the government to focus on more important areas such as reducing remaining pockets of terrorists further north and pushing east to relieve Deir Ezzor.

    Doesn’t look like a big victory or concession in itself for either side (which is probably why it happened).

    Read More
  69. @Ben Banned
    I enjoy the magical saker - it's all about war with this one, and the only war you're supposed to believe exists is one with guns n' shootin' and who has the most weapons verus the other country. As if every American who manages to get out of bed in the morning is looking at a Reagan-era graph of how many fighter jets each side has and feels real anxiety because "they could get us".

    Americans pay their rents, mortgages and bills and wonder how they are going to make it next month - they don't buy the disinfo offered by the likes of Tom's "CIA" Dispatch or the magical Sucker.

    The US military machine is the penultimate welfare queen bar none. They are at war with the remains of the middle class, their dignity and their autonomy. The US is not in a cold war, they are militarily and economically weak - their citizens are in the middle of a storm of fiction wrought by all of their media.

    The day will come, if it hasn't already, where more prosperous countries will look at the US Police State with awe and pity for the citizens held captive by propaganda systems that rival any totalitarian hell of the 20th century.

    Good comments there!

    Read More
  70. @DaveE
    Let's see: The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours, and Saker calls it irrelevant.

    You've just humiliated yourself (at best), once again.

    No, my friend, Trump just kicked the "anglo-zionists" (as you call them) where it really hurts. They may be permanently sterilized, too. They've promised more meetings. We'll see.

    After a year of trying everything they could think of to destroy him, no less. Trump couldn't have delivered a bigger one-finger salute to the a-z's if he tried.

    It's taken the "anglo-zionists" a few thousand years to set up their latest power-play to take over the world. In contrast, it took lest than a couple hours for a couple decent guys to send the bastards to intensive care.

    Stop trying to please your anti-zionist zionist (ala Gilad Atzmon) pals with obvious "damage control" hasbara BS.

    Let’s see: The two most powerful nations agree to a cease fire, in less than two hours, and Saker calls it irrelevant.

    The only things ‘they” allow us to see and hear what’s in their interest. The real deals are taking place behind the scenes and most of us will remain clueless even long after the fact.

    In any case, the ultra-mega-rich are well positioned to profit either way, no doubt, and we almost never hear about what they’re doing behind closed doors, not that the rest of us could do much about it in any case.

    In that regard, there’s too much attention being paid to the buffoon in chief and most of us would likely benefit from refraining from focusing on it and figuring out ways to avoid supporting the trash that owns us.

    Anyone who denies that we, via the ruling apparatus in this country have long been owned, would likely benefit from reading this, which describes the influence that Goldman Sachs has had over key figures in the US government for decades. Note the date and try to argue that the situation is any better today:

    Weinberg Replaces Baruch
    by A.K. Chesterton

    The American Mercury, May 1959, pp. 132-137

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/AmMercury-1959may-00132

    Along with thanking RU for the ability to access info like that, I’d like to point out that it’s very difficult, search engines notwithstanding, in any case to get info on the big bankers. Why would that be?

    Read More
  71. @Ednels
    I liked the edifying Saker article as always, because it is ''thought provoking'', can always find something to further study… etc.

    Good comments section here, as it is maybe too highbrow for most trolls to engage, not to speak of the tiny font in one of the linked articles !

    Ben's comment: good, and I wonder about two points there:

    The US is not in a cold war, they are militarily and economically weak – their citizens are in the middle of a storm of fiction wrought by all of their media.
     
    could [media] be better put: Medium? Not a nitpick, just a quibble with the question of singular vs plural, in a case of something having morphed , unnoticed into something different. the many various independent little small town papers, and large ones too, Media that were so beneficial in the day, into a unitary (monolithic thing) with a number of store fronts. A thing that is obviously pretense of any independence. But hey, at least it is reassuring and calming... like the music in supermarkets...!

    The day will come, if it hasn’t already, where more prosperous countries will look at the US Police State with awe and pity for the citizens held captive by propaganda systems that rival any totalitarian hell of the 20th century.
     
    Could get worse, and these ''more prosperous countries'' may be in Awe, if not Shocked enough, to Ponder their own safety in any presumption of continued security as may have ever existed in prior times, to whether they can expect to be sheltered, or aloof from Danger by any Checks and Balancing mechanism from the Consent of a Well Informed Populous, in that country (the Seat of Democracy)?

    Will the Great American man in the street wake up a''Mr. Smith goes to Washington'')?

    What with the Opioid epidemic, (it's not just for Chinese anymores ) and Computor games, epidemic, the end of any education and wanton promulgation of idiocy and epicurean crap, it hardly seems the great America will lead any new vector to a new Age of Enlightenment, even… tangential to an ''improved state of '' the Informed… bladebla…

    Hey, AI is on the way with wonderful new gewgaws and stuff, but will be the end of most of the… Useless Feeders, like the Krell in a classic '50's SF movie. Da da da

    Sorry to wander I need to get something in the comments so I can get the agree/not button working again, thanks.

    …the end of any education…

    It ended long before Upton Sinclair wrote, in the 1920s, about its demise.

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it was always intended to be training (aka brainwashing), not education, and it has been depressingly effective.

    Sinclair’s 2 books, “The Goslings,” and “The Goosestep,” deal with the problem of corporate ownership of the schooling racket back in the ’20s.

    John Taylor Gatto also is full of good info on the subject.

    “According to James Bryant Conant… in a perfectly frightening book called The Child, The Parent, and the State (1949), the school transformation had been ordered by ‘certain industrialists and the innovative who were altering the nature of the industrial process.’”

    Conant is a school name that resonates through the central third of the twentieth century. He waspresident of Harvard from 1933 to 1953.”

    J. T. Gatto , An Underground History of American Education

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/ughoae.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @edNels
    Jacques, on a point you were making about who owns some ''lamentation'' at a thread,

    I say: ''He who prints the money… owns… everything! Even gdamned Lamentations, FCSakes. "Most misunderstood'' would be a good thing to own, (copywriter ™, [intellectual property] too franchise to passing transient peeps,).

    Sheesh, even stupid Lamentations and whining phraseologies, and..say,Swear words! PRetty soon it will be too Litiigious to do… Beezness at all!

    Sorry wrong thread, but still my little joke for the morning.

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it was always intended to be training (aka brainwashing), not education, and it has been depressingly effective.
    thanks, I'm familiar with Taylor Gatto and his thesis about the Prussian origins on CompEd too, and John has some other really prescient concepts, remembering one in particular about how certain grant moneys are used to effect sociological phenomena like those that reward ''individual stunts of doing ridiculous shows of personal show off things. like to swim some long way or walk on ones hands for some great distance; bicycle exploits; on&on, which is to promote individualism, and undermine its opposite, I think I betty let JTG tell the story! I will read the link to the new Gatto book, as well as Conan and those Sinclair two, I'm reading again sinse I got some glasses instead of... ( tumblers ) thanks Jack.

    I get a breath a fresh air anytime somebody discounts the institution PubEd… that didn't do just Everbody! much of a service!
  72. @ANON
    I'm not confident that anything was accomplished at the meeting. I just can't stand Saker and his 4 themes.

    1. I hate Poland. 2. Trump, Putin and other world leaders never follow my advice. 3. Russia is wonderful and perfect. 4. Everything about America is wrong.

    Because of his biases I don't believe a word he writes. He is as biased as CNN, New Republic, Atlantic, Salon, Huffington, etc.

    You believe Saker. I don't. Start a fight with someone else.

    Because of his biases I don’t believe a word he writes.

    That’s actually a good policy to apply to everyone, except me, of course ! ;)

    Read More
  73. Z-man says:

    Trump in real life is completely different from his television persona

    To put it in context…Putin followed that phrase with complementary remarks of his colleague Trump.
    All in all an innocuous start to what hopefully will be a beautiful relationship. Putin/Trump Axis Da!

    Note: Face the Nation, a program I usually enjoy, had David Ignatius on it’s ‘discussion panel’. I’ve seen this guy Ignatius make some hysterical anti Trump comments on MSNBC in the past and should be disqualified from being a panelist anywhere.
    I like/hate (Grin) the way the MSM recycles these hacks from one network to another.

    Read More
  74. Hrw-500 says:
    @ANON
    And Nostradamus predicted president Kennedy's assassination, the atom bomb, the moon landing and HIV AIDS.

    We could compare that with the predictions of Baba Vanga and/or Siener Van Rensberg. ;-)

    Back to the main subject, we could compare the article of the Saker with the point of view of John Derbyshire https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/thank-you-for-warsaw-mr-president-and-especially-for-mentioning-katyn-massacre/ as well the observation of the Russo-Chinese “alliance” as mentionned by Andrei Martyanov. https://www.unz.com/article/the-russo-chinese-alliance-explained/

    Read More
  75. edNels says:
    @jacques sheete

    ...the end of any education...
     
    It ended long before Upton Sinclair wrote, in the 1920s, about its demise.

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it was always intended to be training (aka brainwashing), not education, and it has been depressingly effective.

    Sinclair's 2 books, "The Goslings," and "The Goosestep," deal with the problem of corporate ownership of the schooling racket back in the '20s.

    John Taylor Gatto also is full of good info on the subject.

    “According to James Bryant Conant… in a perfectly frightening book called The Child, The Parent, and the State (1949), the school transformation had been ordered by ‘certain industrialists and the innovative who were altering the nature of the industrial process.’"

    Conant is a school name that resonates through the central third of the twentieth century. He waspresident of Harvard from 1933 to 1953."

    J. T. Gatto , An Underground History of American Education

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/ughoae.pdf

    Jacques, on a point you were making about who owns some ”lamentation” at a thread,

    I say: ”He who prints the money… owns… everything! Even gdamned Lamentations, FCSakes. “Most misunderstood” would be a good thing to own, (copywriter ™, [intellectual property] too franchise to passing transient peeps,).

    Sheesh, even stupid Lamentations and whining phraseologies, and..say,Swear words! PRetty soon it will be too Litiigious to do… Beezness at all!

    Sorry wrong thread, but still my little joke for the morning.

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it was always intended to be training (aka brainwashing), not education, and it has been depressingly effective.
    thanks, I’m familiar with Taylor Gatto and his thesis about the Prussian origins on CompEd too, and John has some other really prescient concepts, remembering one in particular about how certain grant moneys are used to effect sociological phenomena like those that reward ”individual stunts of doing ridiculous shows of personal show off things. like to swim some long way or walk on ones hands for some great distance; bicycle exploits; on&on, which is to promote individualism, and undermine its opposite, I think I betty let JTG tell the story! I will read the link to the new Gatto book, as well as Conan and those Sinclair two, I’m reading again sinse I got some glasses instead of… ( tumblers ) thanks Jack.

    I get a breath a fresh air anytime somebody discounts the institution PubEd… that didn’t do just Everbody! much of a service!

    Read More
  76. Sowhat says:
    @Darin
    As you wish.

    The chronogically latest result from www.ras.ru, from 7/7/2017

    http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx?id=77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx%3Fid%3D77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253&prev=search

    Google translated:

    Academician Igor Mokhov: Why Moscow is flooded with showers, and in Siberia - anomalous heat
    ...
    Who is Igor Mokhov?

    In the studio there is Igor Mohov, an academician, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a professor at the Moscow State University, a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. Hello.

    Seems like not insignificant person in RAS. If climate change is hoax, he shall know.
    ...
    2016, the Earth's temperature reached its maximum values ​​for the last 4000 years, is it true?
    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data - this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades. For the last million years, there has never been such a concentration of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere.

    ...

    And do the researchers have a clear understanding, what is the cause of global warming?
    Mokhov:
    - To date, according to the most detailed studies, both data analysis and model calculations show that it is impossible to explain modern climate changes, especially the last decades, without an anthropogenic factor. Therefore, this is a necessary element, although, of course, the models require further development and they develop very intensively.

    ...
    Mokhov:
    - In fact, what is happening now, it was already estimated several decades ago and was expected. And then they did not really believe that this could happen. We have already gone to the climate that was predicted before. And we are already living in a new climate that seemed incredible in the 50-60's.

    ...

    And what about the Paris climate accord? Way to save the world?


    "And yet, for the moment, President Putin went to Paris, then Paris agreements were concluded, and before that we had some kind of Kyoto protocol, yes, which, as scientists say, did not work. That's how it relates to that - the planet will be saved? - And what can I do for this?
    Mokhov:
    - Well, the Kyoto Protocol should not have led to any significant results, because it was, rather, an agreement such an economic and political and the first attempt at a global agreement that we do globally in terms of climate.
    Bacenin:
    - He was in what year?
    Mokhov:
    It's 1997 year. From 1998 to 2012 and in 2012, it ended, its results are relatively small limitations in the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and they could lead only to small, insignificant changes at the level of climate variability. As for the Paris conference, in which, incidentally, I also participated, well, it was still not a scientific conference, but rather a political one, and here is an attempt again of such agreements, at the state level, a global agreement, although it is very difficult to do, Because different countries have different interests.

    etc, etc..

    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process
     
    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say "Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire." and again fall asleep.

    Excuse the off topic, here. Just can’t allow this without a comment. Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don’t know why. Yet, science, as they have through history, have jumped on the train. Mankind has a fair number that will buy the leftist agenda to tax and regulate without regard to common sense (whatever THAT is. Mankind is also audacious. CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter. A volcanic even is a different story. Good luck dealing with those.
    I’ve done a fair amount of searching, being the suspicious soul that I am, and there IS No ability to develop a “model” for past or future warming or cooling.
    Some scientist belive that Geology is the only ironclad déterminent of past temperature changes. I don’t have the links on my tablet but, they are out there. The most outspoken geologist was Australian, if recall still is working. Future weather modeling is pseudoscience.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter.
     
    Why is it that people who know nothing whereof they speak, assert so confidently that changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere is a matter of no consequence?

    Anyway, whatever the answer to that question, here's the reason that atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration matters:

    Nearly all terrestrial plant growth is water limited. Plants need water because they must exchange it for carbon dioxide. The process is diffusion. Carbon dioxide diffuses from the atmosphere into plant tissue, where it is fixed by photosynthesis. Since carbon dioxide can diffuse into the tissue there is necessarily a path for water vapor to diffuse out of the tissue. Thus, the higher the atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, the better the rate at which plants acquire it in exchange for water. So if the atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is, say, doubled, plant productivity will be raised by up to 100%.

    Now if you take account of the fact that the burgeoning population of Africa is largely food limited, and you double atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, what does that do to the African food supply and population?

    Yes, it's quite a significant effect.

    Then there's the effect of carbon dioxide on human cognitive capacity which is both subtle and profound.

    But nearly everyone has an absolutely definite opinion about anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions although they know as little about it as Fred Reed knows about evolution.

    A sad consequence of the politicization of science by ignoramuses, frauds and shysters on both sides of the climate change debate.

    , @Jonathan Mason

    Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don’t know why.
     
    I did not know that. However, while one cannot really prove for sure that global warming is caused by what us humans do, it might be, and some efforts to reduce carbon emissions might just help to prolong the human race a bit, thought none of us will be alive to see the last moments of the human race, and are fair enough as long as everyone plays by the rules.

    Just the act of cooperation in a joint agreement in itself brings the various nations together.

    However if a few large economies like the US, Russia, Brazil, India, and China decide not to play, because they feel the rules unfairly hamper their economies relative to competitors that do not have heavy industry, or not much, then the whole game is off and it is every nation for itself, which is part of what Trump was elected for.

    I think I would prefer to see nations trying to cooperate a bit, even if the scientific underpinning for some of the theories of global warming is shaky, because in the long run the switch over to renewable source of energy is unlikely to do much harm, and keeping some oil and coal in reserve for residents of future centuries won't hurt either.
  77. Sowhat says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    I'll disagree with the Saker only to say that the meeting did not yield nothing, it yielded something far worse than nothing. It has cemented Trump irrevocably in the role of clueless neocon waterboy.

    My first attempt to explain Trump's defection was to liken him to King Lear, desperately seeking validation and alienating the only ones who truly loved him. My next attempt was to liken him to King Saul, because he appears to have been rejected by God who had sustained his campaign so brilliantly. Now I've moved on to "So passes Denethor son of Ecthelion."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDn0L55gqw

    Sadly true,I’m afraid.

    Read More
  78. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sowhat
    Excuse the off topic, here. Just can't allow this without a comment. Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don't know why. Yet, science, as they have through history, have jumped on the train. Mankind has a fair number that will buy the leftist agenda to tax and regulate without regard to common sense (whatever THAT is. Mankind is also audacious. CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter. A volcanic even is a different story. Good luck dealing with those.
    I've done a fair amount of searching, being the suspicious soul that I am, and there IS No ability to develop a "model" for past or future warming or cooling.
    Some scientist belive that Geology is the only ironclad déterminent of past temperature changes. I don't have the links on my tablet but, they are out there. The most outspoken geologist was Australian, if recall still is working. Future weather modeling is pseudoscience.

    CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter.

    Why is it that people who know nothing whereof they speak, assert so confidently that changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere is a matter of no consequence?

    Anyway, whatever the answer to that question, here’s the reason that atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration matters:

    Nearly all terrestrial plant growth is water limited. Plants need water because they must exchange it for carbon dioxide. The process is diffusion. Carbon dioxide diffuses from the atmosphere into plant tissue, where it is fixed by photosynthesis. Since carbon dioxide can diffuse into the tissue there is necessarily a path for water vapor to diffuse out of the tissue. Thus, the higher the atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, the better the rate at which plants acquire it in exchange for water. So if the atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is, say, doubled, plant productivity will be raised by up to 100%.

    Now if you take account of the fact that the burgeoning population of Africa is largely food limited, and you double atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, what does that do to the African food supply and population?

    Yes, it’s quite a significant effect.

    Then there’s the effect of carbon dioxide on human cognitive capacity which is both subtle and profound.

    But nearly everyone has an absolutely definite opinion about anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions although they know as little about it as Fred Reed knows about evolution.

    A sad consequence of the politicization of science by ignoramuses, frauds and shysters on both sides of the climate change debate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    The stuffy room effect from too much exhaled CO₂ has been known since at least 1899. Humans exhale about 45,000 ppm (parts per million) of the mighty molecule, so crowded rooms full of lively chatterboxes can get stuffy. For that reason, most people recognize the benefits of good ventilation, and open a window, or something clever like that.

    Submariners can't do that, of course, and the CO₂ level on their boats is commonly between 4,000 and 8,000 ppm.


    We try to keep CO₂ levels in our U.S. Navy submarines no higher than 8,000 parts per million, about 20 time current atmospheric levels. Few adverse effects are observed at even higher levels. – Senate testimony of Dr. William Happer
     
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/17/claim-co2-makes-you-stupid-as-a-submariner-that-question/#comment-1119873

    Stuffy rooms and their effect on humans have nothing to do with climate change or global warming.

    Your remarks about Africa are conjecture.

    Still, it's great to have such a knowledgeable and exalted CO₂ expert here to demonize the molecule that roared snored.

  79. @Sowhat
    Excuse the off topic, here. Just can't allow this without a comment. Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don't know why. Yet, science, as they have through history, have jumped on the train. Mankind has a fair number that will buy the leftist agenda to tax and regulate without regard to common sense (whatever THAT is. Mankind is also audacious. CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter. A volcanic even is a different story. Good luck dealing with those.
    I've done a fair amount of searching, being the suspicious soul that I am, and there IS No ability to develop a "model" for past or future warming or cooling.
    Some scientist belive that Geology is the only ironclad déterminent of past temperature changes. I don't have the links on my tablet but, they are out there. The most outspoken geologist was Australian, if recall still is working. Future weather modeling is pseudoscience.

    Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don’t know why.

    I did not know that. However, while one cannot really prove for sure that global warming is caused by what us humans do, it might be, and some efforts to reduce carbon emissions might just help to prolong the human race a bit, thought none of us will be alive to see the last moments of the human race, and are fair enough as long as everyone plays by the rules.

    Just the act of cooperation in a joint agreement in itself brings the various nations together.

    However if a few large economies like the US, Russia, Brazil, India, and China decide not to play, because they feel the rules unfairly hamper their economies relative to competitors that do not have heavy industry, or not much, then the whole game is off and it is every nation for itself, which is part of what Trump was elected for.

    I think I would prefer to see nations trying to cooperate a bit, even if the scientific underpinning for some of the theories of global warming is shaky, because in the long run the switch over to renewable source of energy is unlikely to do much harm, and keeping some oil and coal in reserve for residents of future centuries won’t hurt either.

    Read More
  80. Sowhat says:
    @Darin
    As you wish.

    The chronogically latest result from www.ras.ru, from 7/7/2017

    http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx?id=77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.ras.ru/news/shownews.aspx%3Fid%3D77368bc1-0668-4163-be06-8c9788367253&prev=search

    Google translated:

    Academician Igor Mokhov: Why Moscow is flooded with showers, and in Siberia - anomalous heat
    ...
    Who is Igor Mokhov?

    In the studio there is Igor Mohov, an academician, director of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a professor at the Moscow State University, a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. Hello.

    Seems like not insignificant person in RAS. If climate change is hoax, he shall know.
    ...
    2016, the Earth's temperature reached its maximum values ​​for the last 4000 years, is it true?
    Mokhov:
    - No, here are reliable data - this is the measurement data. For the last, since the middle of the 19th century there are data of measurements, well, more or less global such coverage, here since the middle of the 19th century this was the warmest year. And the last three decades have been the warmest at the level of decades. For the last million years, there has never been such a concentration of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere.

    ...

    And do the researchers have a clear understanding, what is the cause of global warming?
    Mokhov:
    - To date, according to the most detailed studies, both data analysis and model calculations show that it is impossible to explain modern climate changes, especially the last decades, without an anthropogenic factor. Therefore, this is a necessary element, although, of course, the models require further development and they develop very intensively.

    ...
    Mokhov:
    - In fact, what is happening now, it was already estimated several decades ago and was expected. And then they did not really believe that this could happen. We have already gone to the climate that was predicted before. And we are already living in a new climate that seemed incredible in the 50-60's.

    ...

    And what about the Paris climate accord? Way to save the world?


    "And yet, for the moment, President Putin went to Paris, then Paris agreements were concluded, and before that we had some kind of Kyoto protocol, yes, which, as scientists say, did not work. That's how it relates to that - the planet will be saved? - And what can I do for this?
    Mokhov:
    - Well, the Kyoto Protocol should not have led to any significant results, because it was, rather, an agreement such an economic and political and the first attempt at a global agreement that we do globally in terms of climate.
    Bacenin:
    - He was in what year?
    Mokhov:
    It's 1997 year. From 1998 to 2012 and in 2012, it ended, its results are relatively small limitations in the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and they could lead only to small, insignificant changes at the level of climate variability. As for the Paris conference, in which, incidentally, I also participated, well, it was still not a scientific conference, but rather a political one, and here is an attempt again of such agreements, at the state level, a global agreement, although it is very difficult to do, Because different countries have different interests.

    etc, etc..

    Climate change being an entirely natural, ongoing process
     
    Good to hear that when you wake up at night and find that your house is at fire, you will say "Fire is entirely natural process. There is no hard evidence that someone set up the fire." and again fall asleep.

    Excuse the off topic, here. Just can’t allow this without a comment. Did everyone know that ALL of the planets in our solar system have rising surface temperatures, right now? and they don’t know why. Yet, science, as they have through history, have jumped on the train. Mankind has a fair number that will buy the leftist agenda to tax and regulate without regard to common sense (whatever THAT is. Mankind is also audacious. CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter. A volcanic even is a different story. Good luck dealing with those.
    I’ve done a fair amount of searching, being the suspicious soul that I am, and there IS No ability to develop a “model” for past or future warming or cooling.
    Some scientist belive that Geology is the only ironclad déterminent of past temperature changes. I don’t have the links on my tablet but, they are out there. The most outspoken geologist was Australian, if recall still is working. Future weather modeling is pseudoscience.

    Regarding the U.S. history of their “American Century”, the goal of Total World Dominance, I enjoyed reading F. William Engdahl’s The Lost Hegemon Whom The God’s Would Destroy.
    He wrote that ancient words, attributed to Euripides, “Those whom the gods would destroy they first make mad.” I see the U.S. doubling down, most recently in the The Ukraine and then Syria. They and Israel want access through Syria to the Mediterranean and will do anything to thwart designs by any Other. It now appears that Russia and China will reap from their new detente. Let’s hope that the U.S. doesn’t “go mad” and go ballistic.

    Read More
  81. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter.

    You already said that at #76. I thought it was nonsense the first time you said it as indicated in my response at #78.

    Do you feel that endless repetition strengthens the credibility of your unsupported assertion, or what?

    Read More
  82. Sparkon says:
    @CanSpeccy

    CO2 pollution from mankind constitutes an infinitesimal effect on the whole globe or any portion, for that matter.
     
    Why is it that people who know nothing whereof they speak, assert so confidently that changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere is a matter of no consequence?

    Anyway, whatever the answer to that question, here's the reason that atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration matters:

    Nearly all terrestrial plant growth is water limited. Plants need water because they must exchange it for carbon dioxide. The process is diffusion. Carbon dioxide diffuses from the atmosphere into plant tissue, where it is fixed by photosynthesis. Since carbon dioxide can diffuse into the tissue there is necessarily a path for water vapor to diffuse out of the tissue. Thus, the higher the atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, the better the rate at which plants acquire it in exchange for water. So if the atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is, say, doubled, plant productivity will be raised by up to 100%.

    Now if you take account of the fact that the burgeoning population of Africa is largely food limited, and you double atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, what does that do to the African food supply and population?

    Yes, it's quite a significant effect.

    Then there's the effect of carbon dioxide on human cognitive capacity which is both subtle and profound.

    But nearly everyone has an absolutely definite opinion about anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions although they know as little about it as Fred Reed knows about evolution.

    A sad consequence of the politicization of science by ignoramuses, frauds and shysters on both sides of the climate change debate.

    The stuffy room effect from too much exhaled CO₂ has been known since at least 1899. Humans exhale about 45,000 ppm (parts per million) of the mighty molecule, so crowded rooms full of lively chatterboxes can get stuffy. For that reason, most people recognize the benefits of good ventilation, and open a window, or something clever like that.

    Submariners can’t do that, of course, and the CO₂ level on their boats is commonly between 4,000 and 8,000 ppm.

    We try to keep CO₂ levels in our U.S. Navy submarines no higher than 8,000 parts per million, about 20 time current atmospheric levels. Few adverse effects are observed at even higher levels. – Senate testimony of Dr. William Happer

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/17/claim-co2-makes-you-stupid-as-a-submariner-that-question/#comment-1119873

    Stuffy rooms and their effect on humans have nothing to do with climate change or global warming.

    Your remarks about Africa are conjecture.

    Still, it’s great to have such a knowledgeable and exalted CO₂ expert here to demonize the molecule that roared snored.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    it’s great to have such a knowledgeable and exalted CO₂ expert here
     
    Yes, that's the point I was getting at. The politicization of science by no-nothings, who use the arts of spin, misrepresentation, ridicule and contempt to obfuscate and obscure the state of scientific knowledge. Al Gore is perhaps the finest exponent of the art of making nonsense of a scientific issue as when he likened climate warming denial to racism. But you have the basic technique. Well done.

    Incidentally, I doubt very much if the US Navy or whoever was aware in 1899 of the catastrophic effects of a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on human cognitive capacity, in particular the capacity for initiative and strategic thinking, as demonstrated in recent studies by scientists at the Lawrence Livermore Lab and Harvard. One thousand parts per million causes significant degradation in performance, 2500 parts per million causes catastrophic degradation.

    But probably it is as well if people in those nuke subs lack initiative or capacity for strategic thinking: they are there, presumably, only to follow orders.

    However, one has to be concerned about the effects of the anticipated doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration sometime later this century on the thinking of folks in the White House and Pentagon, especially when you take account of the urban CO2 dome over Washington, DC and the accumulation of carbon dioxide to between several and many times ambient atmospheric concentration in air conditioned buildings.
  83. Trump campaign promises turned out to be hot air.. the zionist neocon are still in charge in Washington DC… War is the inevitable outcome of this “farce” that is US foreign policy..

    Read More
  84. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sparkon
    The stuffy room effect from too much exhaled CO₂ has been known since at least 1899. Humans exhale about 45,000 ppm (parts per million) of the mighty molecule, so crowded rooms full of lively chatterboxes can get stuffy. For that reason, most people recognize the benefits of good ventilation, and open a window, or something clever like that.

    Submariners can't do that, of course, and the CO₂ level on their boats is commonly between 4,000 and 8,000 ppm.


    We try to keep CO₂ levels in our U.S. Navy submarines no higher than 8,000 parts per million, about 20 time current atmospheric levels. Few adverse effects are observed at even higher levels. – Senate testimony of Dr. William Happer
     
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/17/claim-co2-makes-you-stupid-as-a-submariner-that-question/#comment-1119873

    Stuffy rooms and their effect on humans have nothing to do with climate change or global warming.

    Your remarks about Africa are conjecture.

    Still, it's great to have such a knowledgeable and exalted CO₂ expert here to demonize the molecule that roared snored.

    it’s great to have such a knowledgeable and exalted CO₂ expert here

    Yes, that’s the point I was getting at. The politicization of science by no-nothings, who use the arts of spin, misrepresentation, ridicule and contempt to obfuscate and obscure the state of scientific knowledge. Al Gore is perhaps the finest exponent of the art of making nonsense of a scientific issue as when he likened climate warming denial to racism. But you have the basic technique. Well done.

    Incidentally, I doubt very much if the US Navy or whoever was aware in 1899 of the catastrophic effects of a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on human cognitive capacity, in particular the capacity for initiative and strategic thinking, as demonstrated in recent studies by scientists at the Lawrence Livermore Lab and Harvard. One thousand parts per million causes significant degradation in performance, 2500 parts per million causes catastrophic degradation.

    But probably it is as well if people in those nuke subs lack initiative or capacity for strategic thinking: they are there, presumably, only to follow orders.

    However, one has to be concerned about the effects of the anticipated doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration sometime later this century on the thinking of folks in the White House and Pentagon, especially when you take account of the urban CO2 dome over Washington, DC and the accumulation of carbon dioxide to between several and many times ambient atmospheric concentration in air conditioned buildings.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sparkon

    Incidentally, I doubt very much if the US Navy or whoever was aware in 1899 of the catastrophic effects of a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on human cognitive capacity,
     
    Nobody was aware of it because it's nonsense. Humans are commonly exposed to CO₂ levels of several thousand ppm without catastrophes taking place, unless you consider Angela Merkel's orange sweater a catastrophe.

    Judging by your comment, you failed to read or understand Dr. Happer's statement which I gave in blockquotes in my #82: "Few adverse effects are noted."

    That's a long way from catastrophe.
    , @CanSpeccy
    I should have said Lawrence Berkeley National Lab not Lawrence Livermore National Lab.
  85. Sparkon says:
    @CanSpeccy

    it’s great to have such a knowledgeable and exalted CO₂ expert here
     
    Yes, that's the point I was getting at. The politicization of science by no-nothings, who use the arts of spin, misrepresentation, ridicule and contempt to obfuscate and obscure the state of scientific knowledge. Al Gore is perhaps the finest exponent of the art of making nonsense of a scientific issue as when he likened climate warming denial to racism. But you have the basic technique. Well done.

    Incidentally, I doubt very much if the US Navy or whoever was aware in 1899 of the catastrophic effects of a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on human cognitive capacity, in particular the capacity for initiative and strategic thinking, as demonstrated in recent studies by scientists at the Lawrence Livermore Lab and Harvard. One thousand parts per million causes significant degradation in performance, 2500 parts per million causes catastrophic degradation.

    But probably it is as well if people in those nuke subs lack initiative or capacity for strategic thinking: they are there, presumably, only to follow orders.

    However, one has to be concerned about the effects of the anticipated doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration sometime later this century on the thinking of folks in the White House and Pentagon, especially when you take account of the urban CO2 dome over Washington, DC and the accumulation of carbon dioxide to between several and many times ambient atmospheric concentration in air conditioned buildings.

    Incidentally, I doubt very much if the US Navy or whoever was aware in 1899 of the catastrophic effects of a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on human cognitive capacity,

    Nobody was aware of it because it’s nonsense. Humans are commonly exposed to CO₂ levels of several thousand ppm without catastrophes taking place, unless you consider Angela Merkel’s orange sweater a catastrophe.

    Judging by your comment, you failed to read or understand Dr. Happer’s statement which I gave in blockquotes in my #82: “Few adverse effects are noted.”

    That’s a long way from catastrophe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Nobody was aware of it because it’s nonsense.
     
    That's not actually what your Naval genius, Dr. Happer, said with reference to research he seems not to have understood and which he discussed in relation to unrelated work conducted at an earlier time.

    But no doubt there are some who will prefer to accept the spin over at TwattsUpWithThat to which you refer, rather than the results of studies from several top US research schools and institutions. And who am I to say that you, or they, are wrong.
  86. What is the big deal? All people have to do is keep their noses in their own business. What is so god damn hard about that? What, every week or so there has to be some earth moving decisions made between “world leaders.” All these world leaders are are a bunch of shitty pants spoiled brats taking orders from the Banker King in England; oh, that’s the problem, the Banker King didn’t make a trillion off this last meeting of world leaders? God damn, just leave people alone. Hey, people have a way of making things work out if they are just given a chance. It is the Bankers, the filthy rich Corporate owners, these are the problem, they, just cannot get enough of the peoples god damn money (productivity) to suit them. Like they are engaged in a game among themselves, who can get to another trillion the quickest or something like that. War, they want more wars, make more money, strut around in the company of each other, kiss the Kings ring and all that god damn crap. Get a clue boys, we are getting tired of it. The Politicians don’t give a damn about anything except their own and themselves, which one lives in the biggest mansion, whose kid is going to the best school, that sort of crap, and, taking their orders from the Banker King or one of his minions. There will be a war if the Banker King wants one, there will be Bank closures if the Banker King wants them, there will be peace and prosperity if the Banker King wants it, though, he seldom if ever he has wanted peace and prosperity. We are just the fish in the bowl, a little something tinkled down to us every now and then, and it will stay this way unless people get over their gods and their other differences and decide, hey, we can have it a lot better than this.

    Read More
  87. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sparkon

    Incidentally, I doubt very much if the US Navy or whoever was aware in 1899 of the catastrophic effects of a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on human cognitive capacity,
     
    Nobody was aware of it because it's nonsense. Humans are commonly exposed to CO₂ levels of several thousand ppm without catastrophes taking place, unless you consider Angela Merkel's orange sweater a catastrophe.

    Judging by your comment, you failed to read or understand Dr. Happer's statement which I gave in blockquotes in my #82: "Few adverse effects are noted."

    That's a long way from catastrophe.

    Nobody was aware of it because it’s nonsense.

    That’s not actually what your Naval genius, Dr. Happer, said with reference to research he seems not to have understood and which he discussed in relation to unrelated work conducted at an earlier time.

    But no doubt there are some who will prefer to accept the spin over at TwattsUpWithThat to which you refer, rather than the results of studies from several top US research schools and institutions. And who am I to say that you, or they, are wrong.

    Read More
  88. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    it’s great to have such a knowledgeable and exalted CO₂ expert here
     
    Yes, that's the point I was getting at. The politicization of science by no-nothings, who use the arts of spin, misrepresentation, ridicule and contempt to obfuscate and obscure the state of scientific knowledge. Al Gore is perhaps the finest exponent of the art of making nonsense of a scientific issue as when he likened climate warming denial to racism. But you have the basic technique. Well done.

    Incidentally, I doubt very much if the US Navy or whoever was aware in 1899 of the catastrophic effects of a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration on human cognitive capacity, in particular the capacity for initiative and strategic thinking, as demonstrated in recent studies by scientists at the Lawrence Livermore Lab and Harvard. One thousand parts per million causes significant degradation in performance, 2500 parts per million causes catastrophic degradation.

    But probably it is as well if people in those nuke subs lack initiative or capacity for strategic thinking: they are there, presumably, only to follow orders.

    However, one has to be concerned about the effects of the anticipated doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration sometime later this century on the thinking of folks in the White House and Pentagon, especially when you take account of the urban CO2 dome over Washington, DC and the accumulation of carbon dioxide to between several and many times ambient atmospheric concentration in air conditioned buildings.

    I should have said Lawrence Berkeley National Lab not Lawrence Livermore National Lab.

    Read More
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