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The Crisis in Qatar
Yet another clumsy attempt by the Three Rogue States to weaken Iran
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First, a quick who’s who

We will probably never find out what truly was discussed between Trump, the Saudis and the Israelis, but there is little doubt that the recent Saudi move against Qatar is the direct results of these negotiations. How do I know that? Because Trump himself said so! As I mentioned in a recent column, Trump’s catastrophic submission to the Neocons and their policies have left him stuck with the KSA and Israel, another two rogue states whose power and, frankly, mental sanity, are dwindling away by the minute.

While the KSA and Qatar have had their differences and problems in the past, this time around the magnitude of the crisis is much bigger than anything the past. This is a tentative and necessarily rough outline of who is supporting whom:

Supporting the Saudis (according to Wikipedia) Supporting Qatar (according to me)
United Arab Emirates , Bahrain , Egypt , Maldives , Yemen (they mean the pro-Saudi regime in exile), Mauritania , Comoros , Libya (Tobruk government), Jordan , Chad , Djibouti , Senegal , United States , Gabon. Turkey, Germany, Iran.

Questions, many questions

The situation is very fluid and all this might change soon, but do you notice something weird in the list above? Turkey and Germany are supporting Qatar even though the US is supporting the KSA. That’s two major NATO member states taking a position against the USA.

Next, look at the list supporting the Saudis: except for the USA and Egypt they are all militarily irrelevant (and the Egyptians won’t get militarily involved anyway). Not so for those opposing the Saudis, especially not Iran and Turkey. So if money is on the side of the Saudis, firepower is on the side of Qatar here.

Then, Gabon? Senegal? Since when are those two involved in Persian Gulf politics? Why are they taking sides in this faraway conflict? A quick look at the 10 conditions the Saudis demand that the Qataris fullfil does not help us understand their involvement either:

  1. Immediate severance of diplomatic relations with Iran,
  2. Expulsion of all members of the Palestinian resistance movement Hamas from Qatar,
  3. Freezing all bank accounts of Hamas members and refraining from any deal with them,
  4. Expulsion of all Muslim Brotherhood members from Qatar,
  5. Expulsion of anti-[P]GCC elements,
  6. Ending support for ‘terrorist organizations’,
  7. Stopping interference in Egyptian affairs,
  8. Ceasing the broadcast of the Al Jazeera news channel,
  9. Apologizing to all [Persian] Gulf governments for ‘abuses’ by Al Jazeera,
  10. Pledging that it (Qatar) will not carry out any actions that contradict the policies of the [P]GCC and adhering to its charter.

The Saudis also handed over a list of individuals and organizations they want banned (see here).

Looking at these conditions it becomes pretty clear that Iran and the Palestinians (especially Hamas) are high on the list of demands. But why would Gabon or Senegal care about this?

More interestingly, why is ISRAEL not listed as a country supporting the KSA?

As always, the Israelis themselves are much more honest about their role in all this. Well, maybe they don’t quite say “we done it” but they write articles like “Five reasons why Israel should care about the Qatar crisis” which lists all the reasons why the Israelis are delighted:

  1. It hurts Hamas
  2. It brings Israel closer to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the Gulf
  3. It shows US influence is back in the region
  4. It delegitimizes terrorism
  5. It bolsters Israel’s hand in general and Israel’s government in particular

That kind of honesty is quite refreshing, even if it is primarily for internal, Israeli, consumption. Quick check with a Palestinian source – yup, the Israelis are backing the KSA. This is hardly surprising, no matter how hard the western corporate media tries to not notice this.

What about the USA? Do they really benefit from this crisis?

The USA has what might possibly the largest USAF base worldwide in Qatar, the Al Udeid Air Base. Furthermore, the forward headquarters of United StatesCENTCOM are also located in Qatar. To say that these are crucial US infrastructures is an understatement – one could argue that these are the most important US military facilities anywhere in the world outside the United States. Thus one would logically conclude that the very last thing the US would want is any type of crisis or even tensions anywhere near such vital facilities yet it quite clear that the Saudis and the Americans are acting in unison against Qatar. This makes no sense, right? Correct. But now that the US has embarked on a futile policy of military escalation in Syria it should come as no surprise that the two main US allies in the region are doing the same thing.

Besides, was there ever a time with the Trump Administration’s policies in the Middle-East made any logical sense at all? During the election campaign they were, shall we say, 50/50 (excellent on ISIS, plain stupid about Iran). But ever since the January coup against Flynn and Trump’s surrender to the Neocons all we have seen in one form of delusional stupidity after another.

Objectively, the crisis around Qatar is not good at all for the USA. But that does not mean that an Administration which has been taken over by hardcore ideologues is willing to accept this objective reality. What we have here is a very weak Administration running a rapidly weakening country desperately trying to prove that it has still a lot of weight to throw around. And if that is, indeed, the plan, it is a very bad one, one bound to fail and one which will result in a lot of unintended consequences.

Back to the real world

What we have here is a severe case of smoke and mirrors and what is really taking place is, yet again, a clumsy attempt by the Three Rogue States (USA, Saudi Arabia, Israel) to weaken Iran.

Of course, there are other contributing factors here, but the big deal, the core of the problem, is what I would call the rapidly growing “gravitational pull of Iran” and the corresponding “orbital decay” of the entire region closer and closer to Iran. And just to make things worse, the Three Rogue States are visibly and inexorably losing their influence over the region: the USA in Iraq and Syria, Israel in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia in Yemen – all three have embarked on military operations which ended up being abject failures and which, far from showing that these countries were powerful, showed how weak they really are. Even worse is the fact that Saudis are facing a severe economic crisis with no end in sight, while Qatar has become the richest country on the planet, mostly thanks to an immense gas field that Qatar shares with Iran.

ORDER IT NOW

It could appear that Qatar is not such a big threat to Saudi Arabia after all, being – unlike Iran – another Salafi country, but in reality this is very much part of the problem: over the past couple of decades the Qataris have felt their new wealth give them means completely out of proportion with their physical size: not only did they create the most influential media empire of the Middle-East, al-Jazeera, but they even embarked on a foreign policy of their own which made them key players in the crises in Libya, Egypt and Syria. And yes, Qatar had become a prime supporter of terrorism, but so are the United States, Saudi Arabia or Israel, so that is just a hollow pretext. The real Qatari ‘crime’ was to refuse, on purely pragmatic reasons, to join into the massive anti-Iranian campaign imposed on the region by Saudi Arabia and Israel. Unlike the long list of countries which had to voice their support for the Saudi position, the Qataris had the means to simply say “no” and chart its own course.

What the Saudis now are hoping for is that Qatar will yield to the threats and that the Saudi-lead coalition will prevail without having a “hot” war against Qatar. How likely they are to achieve this result is anyone’s guess, but I am personally rather dubious (more about this later).

What about Russia in all that?

The Russians and the Qataris have butted heads many times over, especially over Syria and Libya where Qatar played an extremely toxic role in being the prime financiers of various takfiri terrorist groups. Furthermore, Qatar is Russia’s number one competitor in many LNG (liquefied natural gas) markets. There were also other crises between the two countries, including what appears to be a Russian assassination of the Chechen terrorist Leader Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev and the subsequent torture and trial of two Russian Embassy employees accused of being involved in the assassination (they were sentenced to life in prison and eventually sent back to Russia). Still, the Russians and the Qataris are eminently pragmatic peoples and the two countries mostly maintained a cordial, if careful, relationship which even included some joint economic ventures.

It is highly unlikely that Russia will intervene directly in this crisis unless, of course, Iran is directly attacked. The good news is that such a direct attack on Iran is unlikely as none of the Three Rogue States really have any stomach to take on Iran (and Hezbollah). What Russia will do is use her soft power, political and economic, to slowly try to reel Qatar into the Russian orbit according to the semi-official strategy of the Russian Foreign Ministry which is to “turn enemies into neutrals, neutrals into friends, friends into allies”. Just like with Turkey, the Russians will gladly help, especially since they know that this help will buy them some very precious influence in the region.

Iran, the real target of it all

The Iranians are now openly saying that the recent terrorist attack in Tehran was ordered by Saudi Arabia. Technically speaking, that means that Iran is now at war. In reality, of course, as the real local superpower, Iran is acting with calm and restraint: the Iranians fully understand that this latest terrorist attack is a sign of weakness, if not desperation, and that the best reaction to it is to act the same way the Russians reacted to the bombings in Saint Petersburg: stay focused, calm and determined. Just like the Russians, the Iranians have now also offered to send food to Qatar but it is unlikely that they will intervene militarily unless the Saudis really go crazy. Besides, with Turkish forces soon deployed in Qatar, the Iranians have no real need for any displays of military might. I would argue that the simple fact that neither the USA nor Israel have dared to directly attack Iran since 1988 (since shooting down by the US Navy of the Iran Air Flight 655 Airbus) is the best proof of the real Iranian military power.

So where are we heading?

That is truly impossible to predict, if only because the actions of the Three Rogue States can hardly be described as “rational”. Still, assuming nobody goes crazy, my personal feeling is that Qatar will prevail and that the latest Saudi attempt to prove how powerful the Kingdom still is will fail, just like all the previous ones (in Bahrain 2011, Syria 2012 or Yemen 2015). Time is also not on the side of the Saudis. As for the Qataris, they have already clearly indicated that they are unwilling to surrender and that they will fight. The Saudis have already taken the outrageous decision to impose a blockade of a fellow Muslim country during the holy month of Ramadan. Will they really now further escalate and commit an act of aggression against a fellow Muslim country during that month? They might, but it is hard to believe that even they could be that ignorant of the Muslim public opinion. But if they don’t, then their operation will lose a lot of momentum while the Qataris will be given time to prepare politically, economically, socially and militarily. Qatar might be small, and the Qataris themselves not very numerous, but their immense pockets allow them to quickly line up any amount of suppliers and contractors willing to help them out. This is case where the famous “market forces” will act to Qatar’s advantage.

The Qatari Foreign Minister is expected in Moscow on Saturday and it is pretty obvious what the talks will be about: while Russia will not put all her political weight to support the Qataris, the Kremlin might accept becoming a mediator between the KSA and Qatar. If that happens, that would be the ultimate irony: the main outcome of the Saudi-Israeli-US operation will make Russia an even more influential player in the region. As for Qatar itself, the outcome of this crisis will probably articulate itself along Nietzschean lines: “That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.”

Conclusion

I see this latest crisis as yet another desperate attempt by the Three Rogue States to prove that they are still the biggest and baddest guys on the block and, just like the previous ones, I think that it will fail. For example, I just don’t see the Qataris shutting down al-Jazeera, one of their most powerful “weapons”. Nor do I see them breaking all diplomatic relations with Iran as those two states are joined at the hip by the immense South Pars gas condensate field. The immense wealth of the Qataris also means that they have very powerful supporters worldwide who right now, as I write these lines, are probably on the phone making calls to very influential people and indicating to them in no unclear terms that Qatar is not to be messed with.

If anything this crisis will only serve to push Qatar further into the warm embrace of other countries, including Russia and Iran, and it will further weaken the Saudis.

The Three Rogue States have the same problem: their military capability to threaten, bully or punish is rapidly eroding and fewer and fewer countries out there fear them. Their biggest mistake is that instead of trying to adapt their policies to this new reality, they always chose to double-down over and over again even though they fail each time, making them look even weaker and their initial predicament even worse. This is a very dangerous downward spiral and yet the Three Rogue States seem unable to devise any other policy.

I will end this column by comparing what Presidents Putin and Trump are doing these days as I find this comparison highly symbolic of the new era we are living in:

Trump, after bombing a few “technicals” (4×4 trucks with a machine gun) and trucks in Syria, the proceeded to tweet that Comey was a liar and a leaker.

The Russian version of the G8: the SCO

The Russian version of the G8: the SCO

As for Putin, he participated the latest meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) which welcomed both Pakistan and India as full members. The SCO now represents over half of all the people living on our planet and one quarter of the world’s GDP. You can think of it as the “other G8”, or the “G8 that matters”.

I submit that this quick comparison of agenda really says I all.

UPDATE1: Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is now telling the Saudis to ‘cool it’. The Saudi-Israeli plan is beginning to collapse.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Iran, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia 
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  1. I can imagine a transport ship docking in Qatar. Then Americans notice hundreds of Iranian soldiers marching by their massive airbase escorted by Qatari military officers. That would be an interesting development.

    A wise leader would realize it’s time to switch sides and join the good Muslims.

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    • Agree: HogHappenin
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Agree, but would say better before good. ... and Iran is better than any Arab state, excepting embattled Syria and Lebanon.

    It is strange to me how the Qataris are to be in this situation, maybe just because it is a very small polity, essentially just a takeover bid.
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  2. Let me add that I doubt this would happen. Something like this is more likely:

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  3. The real Qatari ‘crime’ was to refuse, on purely pragmatic reasons, to join into the massive anti-Iranian campaign imposed on the region by Saudi Arabia and Israel.

    This is why it is worth reading this good article. I suspected this to be the reason from the start of the crisis: Qatar has been an active supporter of ME terrorism (including ISIS) just like KSA, US, Israel, UAE and Turkey. But they were never as anti-Iranian as the other members of this Coalition of the Lovers of Terrorism.

    Also, I liked this sentence on the diplomatic skill forgotten in the West:

    the semi-official strategy of the Russian Foreign Ministry which is to “turn enemies into neutrals, neutrals into friends, friends into allies”

    The West simply has no diplomacy any more, only the airforce and the bombs. Diplomacy has always been a highly rational means of achieving your own goals, where military should only be its extension tool, not a complete substitute. The Western MIC has made the Western countries forget this.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Then there's something called "secret diplomacy."

    The common people of the United States, like the same class of people in every other country, mean well, but they are ill-informed. Floundering about in their ignorance, they are tricked and robbed by those who have the inside information and who therefore
    know how to take advantage of every turn in the wheel of fortune.

    The people voted for Roosevelt be cause he talked of "trust-busting" at the same time that he was sanctioning the purchase of the Tennessee Coal and Iron Company by the Steel Trust. They supported Wilson "because he kept us out of war" at the same time that Wilson was making preparations to enter the war.

    The rulers can negotiate "secret treaties" at home and abroad. The people, knowing nothing of either the theory or the practice of secret diplomacy, commit all sorts of follies for which they themselves must later foot the bill.

    - R. F. PETTIGREW, TRIUMPHANT PLUTOCRACY, The Story ofAmerican Public Life from 1870 to 1920.

    https://archive.org/stream/triumphantpluto00pettrich/triumphantpluto00pettrich_djvu.txt
     

    The wonder is that the* hoi polloi trust the hoi oligoi at all. Perhaps it's because today we are generally misinformed rather than merely uninformed.

    *Note to any lurking snarkmeisters. I realize that the words "the" and "hoi" are technically redundant, but I am entering the borrowed phrases in accepted English.

    , @HogHappenin

    But they were never as anti-Iranian as the other members of this Coalition of the Lovers of Terrorism.
     
    I really love that phrase..Lovers of Terrorism. It's like an official mafioso with Israel as the GodFather who is always ready with an offer we can't refuse. With Saudi Arabia as it's right hand man. I wonder what roles the other smaller nations would play.

    The only ethical leaders in that region are the Omanis. And I might add the most humble of them oil rich Arabs if you've been to that place. And that is the most socially free Arab country in that bunch. You can be a devout Muslim or you can be total waste but they don't care
  4. there is little doubt that the recent Saudi move against Qatar is the direct results of these negotiations. How do I know that? Because Trump himself said so!

    I don’t think “because Trump said so” can be regarded as credible evidence of anything. Even his own most die-hard supporters rarely bother pretending his word is worth anything (they just claim when he lies that it’s a cunning subterfuge based upon some complex strategerising).

    As far as I can see the jury is still out on whether Trump actively and consciously “greenlit” the Saudi move to its full extent, or whether he just didn’t understand what the implications would be of his toadying to Riyadh. Perhaps he really is so profoundly ignorant that he really believes what his words imply: that the Qataris sponsor terrorism (they do) but the Saudis (and his own regime) don’t, remarkable as that would be in a national leader.

    As for the Qataris, they have already clearly indicated that they are unwilling to surrender and that they will fight.

    This is still just a political crisis, and given the stakes for both sides it must be most likely that it will remain such, and a resolution will ultimately be found that involves the Qataris conceding enough for the Saudis to claim victory.

    But given that neither side can afford to be seen to lose completely, it only needs one side to be a bit too obdurate or a bit too greedy, and the crisis could move beyond the merely political. In that case we would see perhaps an attempted coup or uprising in Qatar, an occupation by the Saudis with US complicity, or perhaps Turkish or even Iranian troops guaranteeing Qatar against those events, which would mean genuinely significant shifts in Qatar’s strategic position. The odds are against that, because all parties have too much at stake to lightly go far down those roads, but such crises can spiral out of control. And on the way we could see all kinds of destructive economic warfare, lawfare, and hardball pressurising, together with lots of hanging out of each side’s dirty laundry by the other.

    Popcorn time. But if Turkey formally “guarantees Qatar’s independence” I’m going to start getting WW1 flashbacks, and seeing the ME as the new Balkans :-)

    UPDATE1: Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is now telling the Saudis to ‘cool it’. The Saudi-Israeli plan is beginning to collapse.

    UPDATE2: Trump promptly undermines Tillerson’s position (Tillerson Scrambles to Undo Trump’s Qatar Blunder)

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  5. The analogy is perhaps tenuous, but this affair reminds me slightly of Austria-Hungary’s demands on Serbia in 1914. Didn’t that end well?

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  6. How significant is the Shanghai Cooperation Organization? Just joining an organisation doesn’t reveal its impact.

    Pakistan and India will never get along.

    I acknowledge Russia has good leadership. Though, what happens when Putin retires? China is strong, but much rests on the future leadership of China.

    The US isn’t exactly in competition with China, because the US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand. And the US wants to help enrich defence contractors and expand pork spending. So, the US and China have two very different goals. Also, the US and Europe are dedicated to undermining their European populations.

    So, while China and Russia pursue power, the US has very different objectives.

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    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    "The US isn’t exactly in competition with China, because the US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand. And the US wants to help enrich defence contractors and expand pork spending."

    ROFL!!!! Great writing. Funny, but so much truth there
    , @anon

    "What do Gabon and Senegal care about the far away middle east ?
     
    "

    What do Indonesia and Malaysia care about the even further away middle east ?


     US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand
     
    Israeli expansion since 1948 : 2500 square miles.
    Indonesian expansion since 1963: 130,000 square miles.
    Moroccan expansion since 1981 : 103,000 square miles
    Russian expansion since 2012 : 14,000 square miles.
  7. Saker:

    You are ever so wrong to call these God-fearing states “Rogue States”!

    Please, call them The Axis of Kindness.

    They specialize in dropping beautiful, democratic, humanitarian bombs.

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  8. @Weaver
    How significant is the Shanghai Cooperation Organization? Just joining an organisation doesn't reveal its impact.

    Pakistan and India will never get along.

    I acknowledge Russia has good leadership. Though, what happens when Putin retires? China is strong, but much rests on the future leadership of China.

    The US isn't exactly in competition with China, because the US doesn't want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand. And the US wants to help enrich defence contractors and expand pork spending. So, the US and China have two very different goals. Also, the US and Europe are dedicated to undermining their European populations.

    So, while China and Russia pursue power, the US has very different objectives.

    “The US isn’t exactly in competition with China, because the US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand. And the US wants to help enrich defence contractors and expand pork spending.”

    ROFL!!!! Great writing. Funny, but so much truth there

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  9. In perhaps 2015, when Lavrov was constantly in the Middle East, I remember a report, perhaps in Russian on a meeting in Qatar with Khalid bin Mohammad al-Attiyah. Lavrov had promised Qatar a pipeline to be built through Syria in exchange for a $10 Bn investment in the RDIF, which has indeed happened. (Although, so has a similar KSA deal). At this time, presumably, success in Syria and investment mattered more than Gazprom’s commercial interest. It could be that Qatar has cut off support for Syrian ISIS and Hamas. ISIS seems to be fading fast. The pipeline was to be Qatar’s not the Iran-Russia-Turkey scheme to which Qatar has also been invited.

    I was monitoring so much Russian media at the time (hundreds of stories a day and this was not relevant to my task) I can’t place it exactly but it was very memorable because of the reversals involved and the mass of implications. How did they reconcile interests. There have been other discussions about a Qatar, Iranian pipeline operated by Russia which makes more sense for Russia but is less of a bribe. Qatar Investment Authority funded Glencore to buy 19.5% of Rosneft this year. Sechin is pushing Putin to allow Rosneft to build and operate gas pipelines so Russia takes a stake in the Qatari pipeline through Rosneft rather than Gazprom?

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    Thanks for that....2015.a lot has happened including the opening up of gas reserves on the Mediterranean.both turkey and Qatar have us airbases so that is leverage.regardless it Is one thing building a pipeline and another keeping it secure.Qatar has been trying to build up leverage on Israel via the Palestinians but that has come to and end with trumps push for peace.ideally peace does not suit qatars plans so gaza could explode soon.hence qatars flirtation with iran hoping to stir up trouble in s.lebanon via hezb.
    Al thani ran from Syria.maybe they can send him to s.lebanon for some character building
  10. If you are interested in another objective view of the Qatari situation here is an article by Oliver Miles in the London Review of Books: https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2017/06/08/oliver-miles/whats-behind-the-saudi-blockade-of-qatar/.

    It is very interesting that even Al ash-Shaikh has denounced Qatar because of its insubordination to Saudi commands and interests.

    In a nutshell, the situation of Qatar appears to be a symptom of the struggle between the political Islam and the hereditary/religious Islam, in which Qatar plays a part of the more progressive, and potentially more dangerous in the long run, political Islam.

    Therefore, the Muslim lands of ME have added yet another schism to an already rich list, to the delight of Israel. Finally, it is simply sad how uninformed and bumbling the American version of Lawrence of Arabia, the saber dancer Donald Trump, is in all this, completely out of his depth.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    As Russia had no intention of giving up Sebastopol, the USA will not give up Qatar.
    There is no business like show business.
  11. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Weaver
    How significant is the Shanghai Cooperation Organization? Just joining an organisation doesn't reveal its impact.

    Pakistan and India will never get along.

    I acknowledge Russia has good leadership. Though, what happens when Putin retires? China is strong, but much rests on the future leadership of China.

    The US isn't exactly in competition with China, because the US doesn't want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand. And the US wants to help enrich defence contractors and expand pork spending. So, the US and China have two very different goals. Also, the US and Europe are dedicated to undermining their European populations.

    So, while China and Russia pursue power, the US has very different objectives.

    “What do Gabon and Senegal care about the far away middle east ?

    What do Indonesia and Malaysia care about the even further away middle east ?

     US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand

    Israeli expansion since 1948 : 2500 square miles.
    Indonesian expansion since 1963: 130,000 square miles.
    Moroccan expansion since 1981 : 103,000 square miles
    Russian expansion since 2012 : 14,000 square miles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Let's look at the numbers again from an angle that makes more sense:

    Israeli expansion (relative to its size): 2500/8522 = 29%
    Indonesian expansion (relative to size): 130,000/735,358 = 18%
    Moroccan expansion (relative to size - keeping in mind it only occupies 2/3 of Western Sahara):
    68,660/274,460 = 25%
    Russian expansion (relative to size): 14,000/6,592,800 = <1%

    Nice try.

    Peace.
    , @nebulafox
    What do Indonesia and Malaysia care about the even further away middle east?

    I'll let someone else speak for Malaysia, which had a vastly different colonial history and demographic/ethnic situation as opposed to Indonesia, but as far as Indonesia goes, the official anti-Israel stance was originally related to the Third World paternalism of Sukarno rather than Islamism. Though Indonesia has struggled with radical Islam for a while, ever since the Darul Islam in the 1950s, one must remember that until the 1970s, Nasser-style Arab socialism rather than Islamism tended to dominate the pro-Palestinian movements, meaning that the amount of identification ordinary Indonesians felt with the Palestinian cause was limited.

    When Suharto took over in the mid-to-late 1960s, a more tolerant stance toward Israel began to emerge. Unofficial relations began to tentatively spread throughout the decades, to the point of "non-official recognition" in the 1990s. Like in contemporary Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea, many in the New Order (if privately due to Third World politics) admired Israel's toughness, economic vibrancy, and ability to fend off large foes. That being said, the Suharto regime was nothing if not pragmatic and valued keeping Islamic radicals in their sprawling nation castrated more than cultivating official relations with far-off and small Israel.

    Ironically, the rise of the Indonesian middle class during the 1980s and the subsequent fall of the New Order might (along with many other factors) have led to the strengthening of Islamism in the archipelago, but that's another story for another day.

    , @anon
    Start comparing Israel to Indonesia or Morocco after USA has given them 120+++ Billions dollars and numerous anti American concessions on trade and has shared intelligence with those nations.
    Start comparing that little shitty country who acts and survives like a parasite on USA and also partly on France/Germany after US has saved Indonesia or Morocco from boycott , divestment, media criticism, winked at nuclear theft and has saved them from UN sanctions or arms embargo.
  12. Trump’s attack on Syria was either a blunder, or just political show.
    The last possibility to me seems the most probable.
    Making Iran the threat to the ME might be meant to give Saudi Arabia the leading position in the ME, just as abandoning NATO by the USA may be meant to deliver the USA from the burden, imagined, to defend Europe against Russia.
    I still wonder if Trump is far more cunning than his enemies think he is.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Saudi Arabia and Israel spend a *lot* of money to keep the Beltway view of the world akin to what they want. Gulf money permeates our think tanks, both on the Left and the Right: and if Trump had an iota of intelligence last year, he would have hammered home the Clinton Foundation's connection to shady Gulfie donors when she paraded her feminism.

    >I still wonder if Trump is far more cunning than his enemies think he is.

    I think both the Left and Right give Trump way too much credit. He's neither a Russian controlled, closet white supremacist dictator in the making, nor a new Marius, heroically despised by the Establishment, who actually wants to keep his promises to those who voted him into power. Trump is exactly what he appears to be: the American Berlusconi, a corrupt billionaire mogul who just makes it up as he goes along. No more, no less. The secret to Trump is that there is no secret. And right now, unfortunately for his base, he happens to be surrounded by Republican people who haven't learned a thing from the Bush debacle and the last few decades in general, policy-wise. Get ready for pure McConnell fantasies for the next few years.

    He's not un-clever in his own way when it comes to manipulating the media and public ratings, but he just clearly does not know a lot about actual policy-making. Trump is at his best when the Establishment wisdom is very clearly in the wrong, yet they can't figure it out due to their own social bubble and worldview. In that case, Trump calls them out, as he regularly did last year. But it isn't because Trump has a plausible alternative to offer, it is more a gut reaction in the instant of the moment that he forgets a few minutes later.

    , @Anonymous
    Trump-cunning?

    Give me a break. It is obvious that the Syria attack and also the Moab Afganistan bomb was purely a show of force to pressure Xi into taking out N Korea.

    This is so sloppy and ham handed it is criminal. Trump is not negotiating with another CEO where that kind of leverage works. He is negotiating with world leaders who aren't going to be pushed off because of a few missle strikes.

    This just showed Xi that Trump is an amateur.

    And yeah, letting Saudi Arabia have free reign over the Middle East? Nothing could go wrong there right?
  13. @Kiza
    If you are interested in another objective view of the Qatari situation here is an article by Oliver Miles in the London Review of Books: https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2017/06/08/oliver-miles/whats-behind-the-saudi-blockade-of-qatar/.

    It is very interesting that even Al ash-Shaikh has denounced Qatar because of its insubordination to Saudi commands and interests.

    In a nutshell, the situation of Qatar appears to be a symptom of the struggle between the political Islam and the hereditary/religious Islam, in which Qatar plays a part of the more progressive, and potentially more dangerous in the long run, political Islam.

    Therefore, the Muslim lands of ME have added yet another schism to an already rich list, to the delight of Israel. Finally, it is simply sad how uninformed and bumbling the American version of Lawrence of Arabia, the saber dancer Donald Trump, is in all this, completely out of his depth.

    As Russia had no intention of giving up Sebastopol, the USA will not give up Qatar.
    There is no business like show business.

    Read More
  14. […] “The Crisis in Qatar” (The Saker): […]

    Read More
  15. Three Rogue States (USA, Saudi Arabia, Israel)

    Saker-retard shows the reality that anti-Israel people are Muslimists who hate the USA too.

    Too bad for you, your Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood terrorist friends are going to lose their biggest safe space, biggest financier, and most friendly media coverage (Qatar-owned Al Jazeera). It just really burns him up that Israel now has a friendly relationship with both Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Gulf States.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vendetta
    > Brags of friendship with Saudi Arabia
    > Calls you the Muslimist
  16. […] This column was written for the Unz Review […]

    Read More
  17. How could Israel be expanding when it already owns the whole of ME and especially all lands rich in water, oil and gas? Or rather, it owns everything between the two blue oceans (Atlantic and Indian) on its flag. One cannot be expanding when one owns everything already.

    Read More
  18. @anon

    "What do Gabon and Senegal care about the far away middle east ?
     
    "

    What do Indonesia and Malaysia care about the even further away middle east ?


     US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand
     
    Israeli expansion since 1948 : 2500 square miles.
    Indonesian expansion since 1963: 130,000 square miles.
    Moroccan expansion since 1981 : 103,000 square miles
    Russian expansion since 2012 : 14,000 square miles.

    Let’s look at the numbers again from an angle that makes more sense:

    Israeli expansion (relative to its size): 2500/8522 = 29%
    Indonesian expansion (relative to size): 130,000/735,358 = 18%
    Moroccan expansion (relative to size – keeping in mind it only occupies 2/3 of Western Sahara):
    68,660/274,460 = 25%
    Russian expansion (relative to size): 14,000/6,592,800 = <1%

    Nice try.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Or an even better way to look at it is :

    Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??


    And of course the fact remains that these countries are expanding by hundreds of thousands of square miles more than Israel has in real numbers .
    , @jacques sheete
    Speaking of imperialist ( aggressive) expansion, "we" were warned against it time and again, but our lovely leadership has routinely ignored it.

    I like this quote from the Republican anti-imperialist of a century ago.:


    The American flag went up on Hawaii in dishonor; it came down in honor, and if it goes up again now it will go up in infamy and shame and this Government will join the robber nations of the world.

    -R. F. Pettigrew, "Pettigrew's Speech". The Herald. Los Angeles. July 3, 1898. p. 4.

     

    The US would join the robber nations of the world? Ya think?
  19. “The SCO now represents over half of all the people living on our planet and one quarter of the world’s GDP. You can think of it as the “other G8”, or the “G8 that matters”.”

    Very clever!

    Unfortunately the other G8 will only matter around 2040 or so, when the last of the West as we know it is finally subsumed into the Great Caliphate, at which point it will then turn on the other half of the planet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @survey-of-disinfo

    [Europe becomes a "Khalifate"] at which point it will then turn on the other half of the planet.
     
    It is not clear if the quoted contributer is uneducated, misinformed, or merely channeling historic Western insistence on lording over the rest of planet in guise of an insecure alarmist.

    It is not news that Europe and the West (without any ideological basis in a Muslim Khalifate) have for the past few hundred years been treating both halves of the planet as their prey. Keep boo hoo hooing over those gates of Vienna episode but seriously how many HUNDREDS of millions of people have you lot killed in the past few hundred years? Let's get real. Enough of this bullshit.
  20. Nothing new. The Israelis and Saudis have been in a defacto anti-Shiite alliance for years against Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and Iran. I keep waiting for evidence of discontent among the Muslim masses over this … the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques allied with Israel against other Muslim countries that now includes Qatar.

    But no evidence of discontent. Perhaps this is due to the Wahhabi fundamentalists concluding that Muslim apostates like the Shiites are worse than Jews and Crusaders. Déjà vu … the deadly European Thirty Years’ War (1618 to 1648) between Catholics and Protestants all over again.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    The Saud family has managed to make themselves even more unpopular (if that were even possible) on what we might term "Arab Street" due to their relatively newfound comfort with the Israelis, of course, but nobody can deny that it is smart politics. Saudi Arabia isn't Egypt, they've got plenty of money to ease the unemployment problem. For all its flaws, its nowhere near "pseudo-failed state" status like so many other Arab countries, despite the demographic and social pressures.

    Anyway, the Saud family will last as long as the petrodollar enables them to bribe their own people (and having young, male, single, radicalized potential troublemakers-of whom the numbers are increasing-make trouble outside the borders rather than within the Kingdom) and CENTCOM allows them to keep the Shi'a in the Eastern Provinces in check. Once one or both of those factors go away, hell breaks loose in Riyadh. Unfortunately, contrary to what many Western liberals say, what will likely to replace the Saud family in the event of a revolution is probably going to be far worse than what exists today, if public opinion polls in the Kingdom and zakat donations from private donors in Saudi Arabia to jihadist groups are a barometer.

    On the Thirty Year's War: very astute analogy, one that I agree with to an extent. However, a big difference is that the Sunni drastically outnumber the Shi'a in a way that the Protestants didn't the Catholics, around 7 to 1. That is what makes Beltway overestimation of Iranian capabilities so ludicrous.

    (IMO: the Shi'a have shrines and their own version of saints, both of which are considered heathenish by Wahhabists. They also have an organized structure. To become a mullah in Shi'a Islam, you have to train for decades, rigorous education in philosophy, logic, astronomy, et all, much like a rigorous classical education was required for Catholic orders-not at all like modern Sunni Islam where any random guy can declare a fatwa. So they are akin to the Catholics in all this, whereas the Sunni are the Protestants. Not a perfect analogy, but makes the most sense for Westerners.)

  21. @Philip Owen
    In perhaps 2015, when Lavrov was constantly in the Middle East, I remember a report, perhaps in Russian on a meeting in Qatar with Khalid bin Mohammad al-Attiyah. Lavrov had promised Qatar a pipeline to be built through Syria in exchange for a $10 Bn investment in the RDIF, which has indeed happened. (Although, so has a similar KSA deal). At this time, presumably, success in Syria and investment mattered more than Gazprom's commercial interest. It could be that Qatar has cut off support for Syrian ISIS and Hamas. ISIS seems to be fading fast. The pipeline was to be Qatar's not the Iran-Russia-Turkey scheme to which Qatar has also been invited.

    I was monitoring so much Russian media at the time (hundreds of stories a day and this was not relevant to my task) I can't place it exactly but it was very memorable because of the reversals involved and the mass of implications. How did they reconcile interests. There have been other discussions about a Qatar, Iranian pipeline operated by Russia which makes more sense for Russia but is less of a bribe. Qatar Investment Authority funded Glencore to buy 19.5% of Rosneft this year. Sechin is pushing Putin to allow Rosneft to build and operate gas pipelines so Russia takes a stake in the Qatari pipeline through Rosneft rather than Gazprom?

    Thanks for that….2015.a lot has happened including the opening up of gas reserves on the Mediterranean.both turkey and Qatar have us airbases so that is leverage.regardless it Is one thing building a pipeline and another keeping it secure.Qatar has been trying to build up leverage on Israel via the Palestinians but that has come to and end with trumps push for peace.ideally peace does not suit qatars plans so gaza could explode soon.hence qatars flirtation with iran hoping to stir up trouble in s.lebanon via hezb.
    Al thani ran from Syria.maybe they can send him to s.lebanon for some character building

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Things don't happen overnight. ISIS wouldn't keel over the first day the money stopped. (if it did).
    , @KA
    nothing unusual here Same Hasabara. same tissue of distortions
  22. The article is correct when stating Iran is the target.

    Sep 11, 2011 General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned – Seven Countries In Five Years

    “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” I said, “Is it classified?” He said, “Yes, sir.” I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.” And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that?” He said, “Sir, I didn’t show you that memo! I didn’t show it to you!”

    Read More
  23. @anon

    "What do Gabon and Senegal care about the far away middle east ?
     
    "

    What do Indonesia and Malaysia care about the even further away middle east ?


     US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand
     
    Israeli expansion since 1948 : 2500 square miles.
    Indonesian expansion since 1963: 130,000 square miles.
    Moroccan expansion since 1981 : 103,000 square miles
    Russian expansion since 2012 : 14,000 square miles.

    What do Indonesia and Malaysia care about the even further away middle east?

    I’ll let someone else speak for Malaysia, which had a vastly different colonial history and demographic/ethnic situation as opposed to Indonesia, but as far as Indonesia goes, the official anti-Israel stance was originally related to the Third World paternalism of Sukarno rather than Islamism. Though Indonesia has struggled with radical Islam for a while, ever since the Darul Islam in the 1950s, one must remember that until the 1970s, Nasser-style Arab socialism rather than Islamism tended to dominate the pro-Palestinian movements, meaning that the amount of identification ordinary Indonesians felt with the Palestinian cause was limited.

    When Suharto took over in the mid-to-late 1960s, a more tolerant stance toward Israel began to emerge. Unofficial relations began to tentatively spread throughout the decades, to the point of “non-official recognition” in the 1990s. Like in contemporary Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea, many in the New Order (if privately due to Third World politics) admired Israel’s toughness, economic vibrancy, and ability to fend off large foes. That being said, the Suharto regime was nothing if not pragmatic and valued keeping Islamic radicals in their sprawling nation castrated more than cultivating official relations with far-off and small Israel.

    Ironically, the rise of the Indonesian middle class during the 1980s and the subsequent fall of the New Order might (along with many other factors) have led to the strengthening of Islamism in the archipelago, but that’s another story for another day.

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  24. @TheJester
    Nothing new. The Israelis and Saudis have been in a defacto anti-Shiite alliance for years against Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and Iran. I keep waiting for evidence of discontent among the Muslim masses over this ... the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques allied with Israel against other Muslim countries that now includes Qatar.

    But no evidence of discontent. Perhaps this is due to the Wahhabi fundamentalists concluding that Muslim apostates like the Shiites are worse than Jews and Crusaders. Déjà vu ... the deadly European Thirty Years' War (1618 to 1648) between Catholics and Protestants all over again.

    The Saud family has managed to make themselves even more unpopular (if that were even possible) on what we might term “Arab Street” due to their relatively newfound comfort with the Israelis, of course, but nobody can deny that it is smart politics. Saudi Arabia isn’t Egypt, they’ve got plenty of money to ease the unemployment problem. For all its flaws, its nowhere near “pseudo-failed state” status like so many other Arab countries, despite the demographic and social pressures.

    Anyway, the Saud family will last as long as the petrodollar enables them to bribe their own people (and having young, male, single, radicalized potential troublemakers-of whom the numbers are increasing-make trouble outside the borders rather than within the Kingdom) and CENTCOM allows them to keep the Shi’a in the Eastern Provinces in check. Once one or both of those factors go away, hell breaks loose in Riyadh. Unfortunately, contrary to what many Western liberals say, what will likely to replace the Saud family in the event of a revolution is probably going to be far worse than what exists today, if public opinion polls in the Kingdom and zakat donations from private donors in Saudi Arabia to jihadist groups are a barometer.

    On the Thirty Year’s War: very astute analogy, one that I agree with to an extent. However, a big difference is that the Sunni drastically outnumber the Shi’a in a way that the Protestants didn’t the Catholics, around 7 to 1. That is what makes Beltway overestimation of Iranian capabilities so ludicrous.

    (IMO: the Shi’a have shrines and their own version of saints, both of which are considered heathenish by Wahhabists. They also have an organized structure. To become a mullah in Shi’a Islam, you have to train for decades, rigorous education in philosophy, logic, astronomy, et all, much like a rigorous classical education was required for Catholic orders-not at all like modern Sunni Islam where any random guy can declare a fatwa. So they are akin to the Catholics in all this, whereas the Sunni are the Protestants. Not a perfect analogy, but makes the most sense for Westerners.)

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  25. @jilles dykstra
    Trump's attack on Syria was either a blunder, or just political show.
    The last possibility to me seems the most probable.
    Making Iran the threat to the ME might be meant to give Saudi Arabia the leading position in the ME, just as abandoning NATO by the USA may be meant to deliver the USA from the burden, imagined, to defend Europe against Russia.
    I still wonder if Trump is far more cunning than his enemies think he is.

    Saudi Arabia and Israel spend a *lot* of money to keep the Beltway view of the world akin to what they want. Gulf money permeates our think tanks, both on the Left and the Right: and if Trump had an iota of intelligence last year, he would have hammered home the Clinton Foundation’s connection to shady Gulfie donors when she paraded her feminism.

    >I still wonder if Trump is far more cunning than his enemies think he is.

    I think both the Left and Right give Trump way too much credit. He’s neither a Russian controlled, closet white supremacist dictator in the making, nor a new Marius, heroically despised by the Establishment, who actually wants to keep his promises to those who voted him into power. Trump is exactly what he appears to be: the American Berlusconi, a corrupt billionaire mogul who just makes it up as he goes along. No more, no less. The secret to Trump is that there is no secret. And right now, unfortunately for his base, he happens to be surrounded by Republican people who haven’t learned a thing from the Bush debacle and the last few decades in general, policy-wise. Get ready for pure McConnell fantasies for the next few years.

    He’s not un-clever in his own way when it comes to manipulating the media and public ratings, but he just clearly does not know a lot about actual policy-making. Trump is at his best when the Establishment wisdom is very clearly in the wrong, yet they can’t figure it out due to their own social bubble and worldview. In that case, Trump calls them out, as he regularly did last year. But it isn’t because Trump has a plausible alternative to offer, it is more a gut reaction in the instant of the moment that he forgets a few minutes later.

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  26. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    Trump's attack on Syria was either a blunder, or just political show.
    The last possibility to me seems the most probable.
    Making Iran the threat to the ME might be meant to give Saudi Arabia the leading position in the ME, just as abandoning NATO by the USA may be meant to deliver the USA from the burden, imagined, to defend Europe against Russia.
    I still wonder if Trump is far more cunning than his enemies think he is.

    Trump-cunning?

    Give me a break. It is obvious that the Syria attack and also the Moab Afganistan bomb was purely a show of force to pressure Xi into taking out N Korea.

    This is so sloppy and ham handed it is criminal. Trump is not negotiating with another CEO where that kind of leverage works. He is negotiating with world leaders who aren’t going to be pushed off because of a few missle strikes.

    This just showed Xi that Trump is an amateur.

    And yeah, letting Saudi Arabia have free reign over the Middle East? Nothing could go wrong there right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    If you want to demonstrate that Trump is an amateur you must know what his objectives are, now, then afterwards you may be able to show that he failed.
    At present there is doubt about what he really wants.

    The analysis of prof Laslo Maracs, UVA, Amsterdam, of the Trump objectives is that Trump, and his rich friends, understand that going on with the Obama way will lead to their ruin, and the USA's.
    Obama caused close economic cooperation between China en Russia.

    In Khazakstan an enormous installation has been built, they call it a land port, where containers can be transferred from the Chinese railway system to the Russian.
    Containers now can be transported from China to St Peterburgh in a few days.

    The USA cannot subjugate the world militarily, politically and economically impossible.

    Therefore Trump is at war with Deep State, those who still want the USA to militarily subjugate the world.
    I still think that Trump's behavior can be explained by the mentioned analysis.

    If Maracs is right, then it is greatest change in political course of the USA since Roosevelt in 1933 won the elections.
    And of course a decisive change in world history.
    Therefore the whole western world, and all countries dependent on the USA, such as Israel and Saudi Arabia, is in deep confusion.

  27. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Is it known when the President first learned that there were major US bases in Qatar? Not the #30 Anonymous – just for accuracy not as implied criticism.

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  28. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Talha
    Let's look at the numbers again from an angle that makes more sense:

    Israeli expansion (relative to its size): 2500/8522 = 29%
    Indonesian expansion (relative to size): 130,000/735,358 = 18%
    Moroccan expansion (relative to size - keeping in mind it only occupies 2/3 of Western Sahara):
    68,660/274,460 = 25%
    Russian expansion (relative to size): 14,000/6,592,800 = <1%

    Nice try.

    Peace.

    Or an even better way to look at it is :

    Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??

    And of course the fact remains that these countries are expanding by hundreds of thousands of square miles more than Israel has in real numbers .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    And the fact remains that Israel is proportionally greedier for land than they are.

    If a linebacker eats a whole five course meal of pot roast - it's not that amazing. If a five year old does it - it's a thing of astonishment.

    You can also explain why Israel sells weapons to nations like Morocco and Indonesia.

    Peace.
    , @Avery
    {Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??}

    Russia neither stole more land (Crimea) nor dispossessed its native population.
    Crimea has belonged to Russia for a couple of centuries.
    And Russia saved the native population of Crimea from dispossession at the hands of the neo-Nazi illegal junta running Kiev.

    Ridiculous and desperate to either justify or condemn the Israeli vs Palestine situation with Russia.

    Yeah, 'nice try'.
    , @Kiza
    As I wrote before - nobody owns anything when Israelis are around. What is yours is not yours, it is Israeli. God "gave" Israelites the ownership, which they implement with guns bought for them by US taxpayer. One just needs to see the time-shift maps of the ME to appreciate how moronically lying your claims are. But then, also, one just needs to open any US/British/French MSM to get the same sewage that you spout.
  29. @Carlton Meyer
    I can imagine a transport ship docking in Qatar. Then Americans notice hundreds of Iranian soldiers marching by their massive airbase escorted by Qatari military officers. That would be an interesting development.

    A wise leader would realize it's time to switch sides and join the good Muslims.

    Agree, but would say better before good. … and Iran is better than any Arab state, excepting embattled Syria and Lebanon.

    It is strange to me how the Qataris are to be in this situation, maybe just because it is a very small polity, essentially just a takeover bid.

    Read More
  30. @Kiza

    The real Qatari ‘crime’ was to refuse, on purely pragmatic reasons, to join into the massive anti-Iranian campaign imposed on the region by Saudi Arabia and Israel.
     
    This is why it is worth reading this good article. I suspected this to be the reason from the start of the crisis: Qatar has been an active supporter of ME terrorism (including ISIS) just like KSA, US, Israel, UAE and Turkey. But they were never as anti-Iranian as the other members of this Coalition of the Lovers of Terrorism.

    Also, I liked this sentence on the diplomatic skill forgotten in the West:


    the semi-official strategy of the Russian Foreign Ministry which is to “turn enemies into neutrals, neutrals into friends, friends into allies”
     
    The West simply has no diplomacy any more, only the airforce and the bombs. Diplomacy has always been a highly rational means of achieving your own goals, where military should only be its extension tool, not a complete substitute. The Western MIC has made the Western countries forget this.

    Then there’s something called “secret diplomacy.”

    The common people of the United States, like the same class of people in every other country, mean well, but they are ill-informed. Floundering about in their ignorance, they are tricked and robbed by those who have the inside information and who therefore
    know how to take advantage of every turn in the wheel of fortune.

    The people voted for Roosevelt be cause he talked of “trust-busting” at the same time that he was sanctioning the purchase of the Tennessee Coal and Iron Company by the Steel Trust. They supported Wilson “because he kept us out of war” at the same time that Wilson was making preparations to enter the war.

    The rulers can negotiate “secret treaties” at home and abroad. The people, knowing nothing of either the theory or the practice of secret diplomacy, commit all sorts of follies for which they themselves must later foot the bill.

    - R. F. PETTIGREW, TRIUMPHANT PLUTOCRACY, The Story ofAmerican Public Life from 1870 to 1920.

    https://archive.org/stream/triumphantpluto00pettrich/triumphantpluto00pettrich_djvu.txt

    The wonder is that the* hoi polloi trust the hoi oligoi at all. Perhaps it’s because today we are generally misinformed rather than merely uninformed.

    *Note to any lurking snarkmeisters. I realize that the words “the” and “hoi” are technically redundant, but I am entering the borrowed phrases in accepted English.

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  31. @The Alarmist

    "The SCO now represents over half of all the people living on our planet and one quarter of the world’s GDP. You can think of it as the “other G8”, or the “G8 that matters”."
     
    Very clever!

    Unfortunately the other G8 will only matter around 2040 or so, when the last of the West as we know it is finally subsumed into the Great Caliphate, at which point it will then turn on the other half of the planet.

    [Europe becomes a "Khalifate"] at which point it will then turn on the other half of the planet.

    It is not clear if the quoted contributer is uneducated, misinformed, or merely channeling historic Western insistence on lording over the rest of planet in guise of an insecure alarmist.

    It is not news that Europe and the West (without any ideological basis in a Muslim Khalifate) have for the past few hundred years been treating both halves of the planet as their prey. Keep boo hoo hooing over those gates of Vienna episode but seriously how many HUNDREDS of millions of people have you lot killed in the past few hundred years? Let’s get real. Enough of this bullshit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    How many killed by Europeans in the last say 400 years? Not hundreds of millions. That *really* is ignorant bullshit. You could be a typical journalist you are so innumerate. Just Google for "what was the population of the world in ĺ700" and you will immediztely see a lower estimate of 600 and higher estimate of 679 million. What makes your blathering look even sillier is that Western science and medicine have been amongst the mozt important contributors to the very reverse of your asserted facts. Literally billions of people have been born and survived to adulthood and now increasingly into old sge since Europe began imposing itself on the world. BTW can you point to any massacre of series of killings by Europeans outside Europe which killed a tenth as many people as China's and India's regular famines?
  32. @anon
    Or an even better way to look at it is :

    Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??


    And of course the fact remains that these countries are expanding by hundreds of thousands of square miles more than Israel has in real numbers .

    And the fact remains that Israel is proportionally greedier for land than they are.

    If a linebacker eats a whole five course meal of pot roast – it’s not that amazing. If a five year old does it – it’s a thing of astonishment.

    You can also explain why Israel sells weapons to nations like Morocco and Indonesia.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand . Particularly to expand to the Melanesian island of Papua . When the tanks rolled into Papua it was 99% Papuan Melanesian . Now due to ethnic cleansing ( transmigrasi) Papua is 60% Papuan Melanesian . Out of a population of 2 million , 500,000 have been killed . So 25% of the population killed in a genocide perpetrated by Indonesia .

    Since you disdain using real numbers lets do it your waay . Lets contrast this to the relatively benign conflict in Israel . Palestinian population : 4 million. casualties on the Palestinian side : 23,000 . Less than 1 % of the population killed in a low level conflict.

    Again
    Indonesia has killed 25% of the Melanesian Papuan population in occupied Papua .
    Israel has killed less than 1% of the Palestinian population in the conflict.
    Indonesia is occupying 130,000 square miles of Papua
    Israel - Palestinian conflict is in regards to less than 2500 square miles.
  33. @anon
    Or an even better way to look at it is :

    Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??


    And of course the fact remains that these countries are expanding by hundreds of thousands of square miles more than Israel has in real numbers .

    {Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??}

    Russia neither stole more land (Crimea) nor dispossessed its native population.
    Crimea has belonged to Russia for a couple of centuries.
    And Russia saved the native population of Crimea from dispossession at the hands of the neo-Nazi illegal junta running Kiev.

    Ridiculous and desperate to either justify or condemn the Israeli vs Palestine situation with Russia.

    Yeah, ‘nice try’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    It is part of Ukraine . And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? They have more than enough space for their current population . Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1 and they have a low life expectancy coupled with rampant alcoholism so they will not need extra land in the future. What the deal here ?
  34. The countries who support Qatar are Iran and Russia only.
    Turkey has been in a swing state of being the US vassal, getting mad at it, flirting with Russia, etc
    Germany is a joke.

    Read More
  35. @Anonymous
    Trump-cunning?

    Give me a break. It is obvious that the Syria attack and also the Moab Afganistan bomb was purely a show of force to pressure Xi into taking out N Korea.

    This is so sloppy and ham handed it is criminal. Trump is not negotiating with another CEO where that kind of leverage works. He is negotiating with world leaders who aren't going to be pushed off because of a few missle strikes.

    This just showed Xi that Trump is an amateur.

    And yeah, letting Saudi Arabia have free reign over the Middle East? Nothing could go wrong there right?

    If you want to demonstrate that Trump is an amateur you must know what his objectives are, now, then afterwards you may be able to show that he failed.
    At present there is doubt about what he really wants.

    The analysis of prof Laslo Maracs, UVA, Amsterdam, of the Trump objectives is that Trump, and his rich friends, understand that going on with the Obama way will lead to their ruin, and the USA’s.
    Obama caused close economic cooperation between China en Russia.

    In Khazakstan an enormous installation has been built, they call it a land port, where containers can be transferred from the Chinese railway system to the Russian.
    Containers now can be transported from China to St Peterburgh in a few days.

    The USA cannot subjugate the world militarily, politically and economically impossible.

    Therefore Trump is at war with Deep State, those who still want the USA to militarily subjugate the world.
    I still think that Trump’s behavior can be explained by the mentioned analysis.

    If Maracs is right, then it is greatest change in political course of the USA since Roosevelt in 1933 won the elections.
    And of course a decisive change in world history.
    Therefore the whole western world, and all countries dependent on the USA, such as Israel and Saudi Arabia, is in deep confusion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    At present there is doubt about what he really wants.
     
    I doubt that he knows beyond the license to strut around in our faces like the big cock of the dung heap.

    Paradoxically, Trump's vast holdings make him extremely vulnerable. So, effectively, he's trapped unless he's prepared to lose much, and I highly doubt that he's into martyrdom in any form or degree.

    Much about his running for office reminds me of Jesse Ventura's win in Minnesota back in '99.

    I'm quite certain that Jesse put his money where his (also rather big) mouth was and ran for office, never expecting to win, but merely to use the bully pulpit to show the other money bags the middle finger. To his, and everyone else's shock, he won. Unfortunately, he was opposed by unopposable forces and though he did manage to push through some good legislation (!), it's all been undone. Jesse was a one term governor.

    Anyway, it's: Hail, Humpty Trump! Sterquilinus has risen, again! Isn't he byoo-tiful? Cock-a-doodle- doo-doo!!!!!!

    Yes, sumpin sitnks, but Hexen Hillary would've been MUCH worse...Yuck!

    Full disclosure.: I'm still a Ventura policy fan, though I could do without the pink boa!
    , @Anonymous
    This "Trump is playing 4D chess" idea at this point is utterly retarded.

    And no, you don't need to know what his objectives are even though it is pretty transparent if you pay attention. He is bungling things, getting us entangled in foreign conflicts and aligning us with literal terrorist states. To say this is all part of some master plan at 4D chess is hopelessly nieve.

    Not sure what your point is on Russia and China. You seem to think that Trump could play divide and conquer and turn Russia and China against each other? That is my whole point though. Trumps pathetic plan to bomb Syria in order to intimidate China did not work and only weakened his negotiating position. Nothing Trump does will turn Russia and China against each other, and everything Trump has done since elected has only cemented this relationship even more.
  36. @Talha
    Let's look at the numbers again from an angle that makes more sense:

    Israeli expansion (relative to its size): 2500/8522 = 29%
    Indonesian expansion (relative to size): 130,000/735,358 = 18%
    Moroccan expansion (relative to size - keeping in mind it only occupies 2/3 of Western Sahara):
    68,660/274,460 = 25%
    Russian expansion (relative to size): 14,000/6,592,800 = <1%

    Nice try.

    Peace.

    Speaking of imperialist ( aggressive) expansion, “we” were warned against it time and again, but our lovely leadership has routinely ignored it.

    I like this quote from the Republican anti-imperialist of a century ago.:

    The American flag went up on Hawaii in dishonor; it came down in honor, and if it goes up again now it will go up in infamy and shame and this Government will join the robber nations of the world.

    -R. F. Pettigrew, “Pettigrew’s Speech”. The Herald. Los Angeles. July 3, 1898. p. 4.

    The US would join the robber nations of the world? Ya think?

    Read More
  37. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Talha
    And the fact remains that Israel is proportionally greedier for land than they are.

    If a linebacker eats a whole five course meal of pot roast - it's not that amazing. If a five year old does it - it's a thing of astonishment.

    You can also explain why Israel sells weapons to nations like Morocco and Indonesia.

    Peace.

    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand . Particularly to expand to the Melanesian island of Papua . When the tanks rolled into Papua it was 99% Papuan Melanesian . Now due to ethnic cleansing ( transmigrasi) Papua is 60% Papuan Melanesian . Out of a population of 2 million , 500,000 have been killed . So 25% of the population killed in a genocide perpetrated by Indonesia .

    Since you disdain using real numbers lets do it your waay . Lets contrast this to the relatively benign conflict in Israel . Palestinian population : 4 million. casualties on the Palestinian side : 23,000 . Less than 1 % of the population killed in a low level conflict.

    Again
    Indonesia has killed 25% of the Melanesian Papuan population in occupied Papua .
    Israel has killed less than 1% of the Palestinian population in the conflict.
    Indonesia is occupying 130,000 square miles of Papua
    Israel – Palestinian conflict is in regards to less than 2500 square miles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Considering that Palestine has been under various bootheels including Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman, Brit and Zionist ones for nearly ever, I don't think there's much comfort to be found in your figures.
    , @survey-of-disinfo

    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand .
     
    Aggressive expansion certainly needs to explain itself. I don't know enough about this specific instance you note.

    But there is a categorical difference here that should be noted. The Zionist project in Palestine requires -- precisely because of its inorganic inception and supramacist ideology -- the de facto degeneration, if not outright destruction per Iraq and Syria, of surrounding nations.

    You are ignoring this distinction and thus metric measures are your remaning moral yardstick.

    , @Talha
    First off, I've never seen any legitimate source cite the figure up as high as half a million - provide your source - an academic, objective one would be nice.

    There is no doubt that the Indonesian military has killed thousands upon thousands of people in Papau - many of them innocent non-combatants.

    I denounce the slaughter of innocents committed by both Indonesia and Israel; do you?

    Again:
    Israel has gobbled up close to 30% of its area
    Indonesia has gobbled up close to 20% of its area

    Peace.
  38. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Avery
    {Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??}

    Russia neither stole more land (Crimea) nor dispossessed its native population.
    Crimea has belonged to Russia for a couple of centuries.
    And Russia saved the native population of Crimea from dispossession at the hands of the neo-Nazi illegal junta running Kiev.

    Ridiculous and desperate to either justify or condemn the Israeli vs Palestine situation with Russia.

    Yeah, 'nice try'.

    It is part of Ukraine . And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? They have more than enough space for their current population . Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1 and they have a low life expectancy coupled with rampant alcoholism so they will not need extra land in the future. What the deal here ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {It is part of Ukraine .}

    No it isn’t: it was and is part of Russia.

    {And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? }

    ‘….need to expand its territory ?’: Again, Russia expanded nothing. Crimea was Russian. Part of Russia, not part of Ukraine. Obviously you are either being deliberately obtuse or have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Crimea.

    Just the same, let’s continue on the absurd trajectory of your illogic, shall we?

    A) Why does a wealthy couple with no children in say Los Angeles (my neck of the woods) live in a 5,000 sq.ft. mansion, while a few blocks away a family of 5 or 6 lives in a 1,000 sq.ft shack?

    B) Why does Israel need to steal more Palestinian land?
    Population density*:
    #5 Gaza Strip 5,045.5
    #25 West Bank 466.05
    #30 Israel 376.59

    C) Gaza strip has more than 10X the population density of Israel: why?
    Why should Israeli Jews live in 10X more comfort than Gaza Palestinians?
    So unfair, No?

    __________
    *

    https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=21000
    , @Avery
    Since we are on this reductio ad absurdum 'Why....' train, I have one for you:

    Why do Jews have to have a country of their own, and in a very inhospitable and dangerous land of all places?

    I mean, there are about 6 million Jews living happily in US. Obviously, they have thrived in these United States, and arguably are far safer here than in Israel. I mean what Arab country is going to attack US?

    I think the name of New York can be legally and rather easily changed to 'New Jerusalem' or 'New Tel Aviv', Jews currently living in Israel can move to 'New Jerusalem', and let them Ayraabs and Muslimians fight it out amongst themselves for the piece of scrub land.

    How about it?
    You ask 'Why', I ask 'Why Not'.

    , @Jon0815

    Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1
     
    Are you posting from 1999? In 2016, Russia's fertility rate was 1.75.
    , @Russia doesn't seek more land
    Russia didn't absorb Crimea back into Russia in order to expand its land mass.
    The US unleashed a color revolution and a coup aimed at installing a Ukrainian regime hostile to Russia.
    The US intended to take Russia's only warm water naval base and to occupy it with US/NATO ships. Russia saw what was happening and saved its base.
    If you look into it, you will find that the local Crimeans overwhelmingly support Krim returning to Russia, and they are more Russian than the Russians.
  39. “The Saker” is absolutely right about the characterization of the “Axis of Evil” that contains finally the right three rogue states: The US Empire, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. For sure, it’s all about Iran but the time is over to attack this country, although the Israelis and the Saudis would love, it the US would do it. But even the Trump administration is not that stupid. To attack Iran would be the “stupidest thing I’ve ever heart”, said the late Israeli Mossad chief Meir Dagen, when the two crazies in Tel Aviv, Netanyahu, and Barack, tried to convince or rather push the US into attacking Iran’s nuclear installations, knowing that Iran is light years away from a nuclear device.

    It speaks volumes that the US supports Saudi Arabia’s open aggression and genocide in Yemen. But the failure shows that the Saudis are incapable of dealing with a bunch or Huthi rebels or just take Syria where they are just capable of financing foreign mercenaries and terrorist to overthrow an elected President. To rely on the Saudis is a lost cause.

    That Russia wants to mediate in the created crisis and the Iranians and the Turks want to deliver goods, the later are even ready to send troops, is a good sign that this criminal endeavor of the three terror states, the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia, is going to fail.

    The Trump administration, however, is the first to blame because President Trump gave all the Muslim despots a free hand when he delivered his bizarre speech in Riadah and singled out Iran as the main “sponsor of Terrorism”. After this grotesque performance, he visited the main terrorist state in the region, Israel. As long as the US is unconditionally loyal to Israel, they can’t pursue their national interests. That such interests are identical or the relations between the two states are “unshakable” is just rhetoric. But that the US can’t escape the deadly embrace shows whose interest the US political class is truly serving.

    Read More
  40. @jilles dykstra
    If you want to demonstrate that Trump is an amateur you must know what his objectives are, now, then afterwards you may be able to show that he failed.
    At present there is doubt about what he really wants.

    The analysis of prof Laslo Maracs, UVA, Amsterdam, of the Trump objectives is that Trump, and his rich friends, understand that going on with the Obama way will lead to their ruin, and the USA's.
    Obama caused close economic cooperation between China en Russia.

    In Khazakstan an enormous installation has been built, they call it a land port, where containers can be transferred from the Chinese railway system to the Russian.
    Containers now can be transported from China to St Peterburgh in a few days.

    The USA cannot subjugate the world militarily, politically and economically impossible.

    Therefore Trump is at war with Deep State, those who still want the USA to militarily subjugate the world.
    I still think that Trump's behavior can be explained by the mentioned analysis.

    If Maracs is right, then it is greatest change in political course of the USA since Roosevelt in 1933 won the elections.
    And of course a decisive change in world history.
    Therefore the whole western world, and all countries dependent on the USA, such as Israel and Saudi Arabia, is in deep confusion.

    At present there is doubt about what he really wants.

    I doubt that he knows beyond the license to strut around in our faces like the big cock of the dung heap.

    Paradoxically, Trump’s vast holdings make him extremely vulnerable. So, effectively, he’s trapped unless he’s prepared to lose much, and I highly doubt that he’s into martyrdom in any form or degree.

    Much about his running for office reminds me of Jesse Ventura’s win in Minnesota back in ’99.

    I’m quite certain that Jesse put his money where his (also rather big) mouth was and ran for office, never expecting to win, but merely to use the bully pulpit to show the other money bags the middle finger. To his, and everyone else’s shock, he won. Unfortunately, he was opposed by unopposable forces and though he did manage to push through some good legislation (!), it’s all been undone. Jesse was a one term governor.

    Anyway, it’s: Hail, Humpty Trump! Sterquilinus has risen, again! Isn’t he byoo-tiful? Cock-a-doodle- doo-doo!!!!!!

    Yes, sumpin sitnks, but Hexen Hillary would’ve been MUCH worse…Yuck!

    Full disclosure.: I’m still a Ventura policy fan, though I could do without the pink boa!

    Read More
  41. @anon
    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand . Particularly to expand to the Melanesian island of Papua . When the tanks rolled into Papua it was 99% Papuan Melanesian . Now due to ethnic cleansing ( transmigrasi) Papua is 60% Papuan Melanesian . Out of a population of 2 million , 500,000 have been killed . So 25% of the population killed in a genocide perpetrated by Indonesia .

    Since you disdain using real numbers lets do it your waay . Lets contrast this to the relatively benign conflict in Israel . Palestinian population : 4 million. casualties on the Palestinian side : 23,000 . Less than 1 % of the population killed in a low level conflict.

    Again
    Indonesia has killed 25% of the Melanesian Papuan population in occupied Papua .
    Israel has killed less than 1% of the Palestinian population in the conflict.
    Indonesia is occupying 130,000 square miles of Papua
    Israel - Palestinian conflict is in regards to less than 2500 square miles.

    Considering that Palestine has been under various bootheels including Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman, Brit and Zionist ones for nearly ever, I don’t think there’s much comfort to be found in your figures.

    Read More
  42. @anon
    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand . Particularly to expand to the Melanesian island of Papua . When the tanks rolled into Papua it was 99% Papuan Melanesian . Now due to ethnic cleansing ( transmigrasi) Papua is 60% Papuan Melanesian . Out of a population of 2 million , 500,000 have been killed . So 25% of the population killed in a genocide perpetrated by Indonesia .

    Since you disdain using real numbers lets do it your waay . Lets contrast this to the relatively benign conflict in Israel . Palestinian population : 4 million. casualties on the Palestinian side : 23,000 . Less than 1 % of the population killed in a low level conflict.

    Again
    Indonesia has killed 25% of the Melanesian Papuan population in occupied Papua .
    Israel has killed less than 1% of the Palestinian population in the conflict.
    Indonesia is occupying 130,000 square miles of Papua
    Israel - Palestinian conflict is in regards to less than 2500 square miles.

    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand .

    Aggressive expansion certainly needs to explain itself. I don’t know enough about this specific instance you note.

    But there is a categorical difference here that should be noted. The Zionist project in Palestine requires — precisely because of its inorganic inception and supramacist ideology — the de facto degeneration, if not outright destruction per Iraq and Syria, of surrounding nations.

    You are ignoring this distinction and thus metric measures are your remaning moral yardstick.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    . The Zionist project in Palestine requires — precisely because of its inorganic inception and supramacist ideology — 
     
    The Zionist project is completely organic. The Hashemite project in Palestine is inorganic though. Jordan controls 78% of Palestine. The Hashemite Kingdom are natives from Saudi Arabia. When the Saud family disposed of them , the Brits gave them 78% of Palestine as a consolation prize. Writings on the wall though and the Jordanian royal family spends more time in Paris and Zurich then they do in Amman these days.

    As far as supremacy , the justification Indonesia gave for invading and occupying Papua was that Papuans are too primitive to rule their own country. Talk about supremacy. Oh Dear.

  43. @anon
    It is part of Ukraine . And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? They have more than enough space for their current population . Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1 and they have a low life expectancy coupled with rampant alcoholism so they will not need extra land in the future. What the deal here ?

    {It is part of Ukraine .}

    No it isn’t: it was and is part of Russia.

    {And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? }

    ‘….need to expand its territory ?’: Again, Russia expanded nothing. Crimea was Russian. Part of Russia, not part of Ukraine. Obviously you are either being deliberately obtuse or have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Crimea.

    Just the same, let’s continue on the absurd trajectory of your illogic, shall we?

    A) Why does a wealthy couple with no children in say Los Angeles (my neck of the woods) live in a 5,000 sq.ft. mansion, while a few blocks away a family of 5 or 6 lives in a 1,000 sq.ft shack?

    B) Why does Israel need to steal more Palestinian land?
    Population density*:
    #5 Gaza Strip 5,045.5
    #25 West Bank 466.05
    #30 Israel 376.59

    C) Gaza strip has more than 10X the population density of Israel: why?
    Why should Israeli Jews live in 10X more comfort than Gaza Palestinians?
    So unfair, No?

    __________
    *

    https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=21000

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Russian lands _given_ to the Ukrainian 'territory'.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140504_3602.jpg

    Crimea, as well as most of what now is called 'Ukraine', were/are Russian lands.
    , @anon
    Hey Avery
    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely . Any problems that Gazans may have they can take up with their elected government , Hamas. Of course its a moot point because Hamas was not elected to solve problems , but to be Jihad Warriors.

    From your population density charts we can see that Israel and the Palestinian Authority are basically on par and Gaza is the outlier with 10x more population density. But lets add another wrinkle to the equation .Lets account for all of Palestine . Jordan currently controls 78% of Palestine . Jordan population density is less than 100.

    Gaza 5000
    West Bank 465
    Israel 376
    Jordan 85

    So we have Jordan with 78% of Palestine and the lowest population density by far . And you have Israel , Gaza and west bank fighting for 22 % of Palestine and with much higher population density than Jordan. Seems Jordan is extremely unfair to everyone else .
  44. @Avery
    {It is part of Ukraine .}

    No it isn’t: it was and is part of Russia.

    {And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? }

    ‘….need to expand its territory ?’: Again, Russia expanded nothing. Crimea was Russian. Part of Russia, not part of Ukraine. Obviously you are either being deliberately obtuse or have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Crimea.

    Just the same, let’s continue on the absurd trajectory of your illogic, shall we?

    A) Why does a wealthy couple with no children in say Los Angeles (my neck of the woods) live in a 5,000 sq.ft. mansion, while a few blocks away a family of 5 or 6 lives in a 1,000 sq.ft shack?

    B) Why does Israel need to steal more Palestinian land?
    Population density*:
    #5 Gaza Strip 5,045.5
    #25 West Bank 466.05
    #30 Israel 376.59

    C) Gaza strip has more than 10X the population density of Israel: why?
    Why should Israeli Jews live in 10X more comfort than Gaza Palestinians?
    So unfair, No?

    __________
    *

    https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=21000

    Russian lands _given_ to the Ukrainian ‘territory’.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140504_3602.jpg

    Crimea, as well as most of what now is called ‘Ukraine’, were/are Russian lands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Not according to treaties signed by the Russian Federation at the break up of the Soviet Union and thereafter.
  45. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @survey-of-disinfo

    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand .
     
    Aggressive expansion certainly needs to explain itself. I don't know enough about this specific instance you note.

    But there is a categorical difference here that should be noted. The Zionist project in Palestine requires -- precisely because of its inorganic inception and supramacist ideology -- the de facto degeneration, if not outright destruction per Iraq and Syria, of surrounding nations.

    You are ignoring this distinction and thus metric measures are your remaning moral yardstick.

    . The Zionist project in Palestine requires — precisely because of its inorganic inception and supramacist ideology — 

    The Zionist project is completely organic. The Hashemite project in Palestine is inorganic though. Jordan controls 78% of Palestine. The Hashemite Kingdom are natives from Saudi Arabia. When the Saud family disposed of them , the Brits gave them 78% of Palestine as a consolation prize. Writings on the wall though and the Jordanian royal family spends more time in Paris and Zurich then they do in Amman these days.

    As far as supremacy , the justification Indonesia gave for invading and occupying Papua was that Papuans are too primitive to rule their own country. Talk about supremacy. Oh Dear.

    Read More
    • Replies: @survey-of-disinfo
    Jordan, "Saudi" Arabia, and "Israel" are all creatures of AngloZionists.

    The case supporting the assertion that the Zionist project in Palestine is a 'construct' is self evident. You need to make a case as to in what sense of the word "organic" is the colony of Jews-who-are-not-Jews in Palestine an "organic" "nation".

    You are also pointing to Indonisia to deflect from the statement of fact that the Zionist entity is motivated at the core by a suparamacist ideology.

    What you did not address at all is the fact that both AngloZionist projects -- "Israel" and "Saudi" Arabia -- have a degenerative affect on the world at large. One must be willfully blind not to see it. (Look at the effect on America and American 'institutions' - the press, the congress, the executive, the academia -- for just one example of degenerative action at distance, unique to the projects of the AngloZionists.)

  46. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Avery
    {It is part of Ukraine .}

    No it isn’t: it was and is part of Russia.

    {And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? }

    ‘….need to expand its territory ?’: Again, Russia expanded nothing. Crimea was Russian. Part of Russia, not part of Ukraine. Obviously you are either being deliberately obtuse or have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Crimea.

    Just the same, let’s continue on the absurd trajectory of your illogic, shall we?

    A) Why does a wealthy couple with no children in say Los Angeles (my neck of the woods) live in a 5,000 sq.ft. mansion, while a few blocks away a family of 5 or 6 lives in a 1,000 sq.ft shack?

    B) Why does Israel need to steal more Palestinian land?
    Population density*:
    #5 Gaza Strip 5,045.5
    #25 West Bank 466.05
    #30 Israel 376.59

    C) Gaza strip has more than 10X the population density of Israel: why?
    Why should Israeli Jews live in 10X more comfort than Gaza Palestinians?
    So unfair, No?

    __________
    *

    https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=21000

    Hey Avery
    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely . Any problems that Gazans may have they can take up with their elected government , Hamas. Of course its a moot point because Hamas was not elected to solve problems , but to be Jihad Warriors.

    From your population density charts we can see that Israel and the Palestinian Authority are basically on par and Gaza is the outlier with 10x more population density. But lets add another wrinkle to the equation .Lets account for all of Palestine . Jordan currently controls 78% of Palestine . Jordan population density is less than 100.

    Gaza 5000
    West Bank 465
    Israel 376
    Jordan 85

    So we have Jordan with 78% of Palestine and the lowest population density by far . And you have Israel , Gaza and west bank fighting for 22 % of Palestine and with much higher population density than Jordan. Seems Jordan is extremely unfair to everyone else .

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Israel is the SS of the concentration camp Gaza
    , @Avery
    {Hey Avery
    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . }


    Hey [anon], Russia has nothing to do with Israel.
    Neither does Jordan.
    , @MEexpert

    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely .
     
    Talk about ignorance or head in the sand. Israel has complete blockade of Gaza; land air, and sea. She will not allow any UN observers, human rights people, or any humanitarian aid to the residents of Gaza. Remember the Turkish flotilla a few years ago where they not only blocked it from reaching Gaza but also killed people on board. Israel cuts off water and electricity to the population of Gaza. It also bombs Gaza at will. The Israeli atrocities against the people of Gaza are endless. Gaza is know as the largest open air prison.
  47. @anon
    It is part of Ukraine . And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? They have more than enough space for their current population . Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1 and they have a low life expectancy coupled with rampant alcoholism so they will not need extra land in the future. What the deal here ?

    Since we are on this reductio ad absurdum ‘Why….’ train, I have one for you:

    Why do Jews have to have a country of their own, and in a very inhospitable and dangerous land of all places?

    I mean, there are about 6 million Jews living happily in US. Obviously, they have thrived in these United States, and arguably are far safer here than in Israel. I mean what Arab country is going to attack US?

    I think the name of New York can be legally and rather easily changed to ‘New Jerusalem’ or ‘New Tel Aviv’, Jews currently living in Israel can move to ‘New Jerusalem’, and let them Ayraabs and Muslimians fight it out amongst themselves for the piece of scrub land.

    How about it?
    You ask ‘Why’, I ask ‘Why Not’.

    Read More
  48. @anon

    . The Zionist project in Palestine requires — precisely because of its inorganic inception and supramacist ideology — 
     
    The Zionist project is completely organic. The Hashemite project in Palestine is inorganic though. Jordan controls 78% of Palestine. The Hashemite Kingdom are natives from Saudi Arabia. When the Saud family disposed of them , the Brits gave them 78% of Palestine as a consolation prize. Writings on the wall though and the Jordanian royal family spends more time in Paris and Zurich then they do in Amman these days.

    As far as supremacy , the justification Indonesia gave for invading and occupying Papua was that Papuans are too primitive to rule their own country. Talk about supremacy. Oh Dear.

    Jordan, “Saudi” Arabia, and “Israel” are all creatures of AngloZionists.

    The case supporting the assertion that the Zionist project in Palestine is a ‘construct’ is self evident. You need to make a case as to in what sense of the word “organic” is the colony of Jews-who-are-not-Jews in Palestine an “organic” “nation”.

    You are also pointing to Indonisia to deflect from the statement of fact that the Zionist entity is motivated at the core by a suparamacist ideology.

    What you did not address at all is the fact that both AngloZionist projects — “Israel” and “Saudi” Arabia — have a degenerative affect on the world at large. One must be willfully blind not to see it. (Look at the effect on America and American ‘institutions’ – the press, the congress, the executive, the academia — for just one example of degenerative action at distance, unique to the projects of the AngloZionists.)

    Read More
  49. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    If you want to demonstrate that Trump is an amateur you must know what his objectives are, now, then afterwards you may be able to show that he failed.
    At present there is doubt about what he really wants.

    The analysis of prof Laslo Maracs, UVA, Amsterdam, of the Trump objectives is that Trump, and his rich friends, understand that going on with the Obama way will lead to their ruin, and the USA's.
    Obama caused close economic cooperation between China en Russia.

    In Khazakstan an enormous installation has been built, they call it a land port, where containers can be transferred from the Chinese railway system to the Russian.
    Containers now can be transported from China to St Peterburgh in a few days.

    The USA cannot subjugate the world militarily, politically and economically impossible.

    Therefore Trump is at war with Deep State, those who still want the USA to militarily subjugate the world.
    I still think that Trump's behavior can be explained by the mentioned analysis.

    If Maracs is right, then it is greatest change in political course of the USA since Roosevelt in 1933 won the elections.
    And of course a decisive change in world history.
    Therefore the whole western world, and all countries dependent on the USA, such as Israel and Saudi Arabia, is in deep confusion.

    This “Trump is playing 4D chess” idea at this point is utterly retarded.

    And no, you don’t need to know what his objectives are even though it is pretty transparent if you pay attention. He is bungling things, getting us entangled in foreign conflicts and aligning us with literal terrorist states. To say this is all part of some master plan at 4D chess is hopelessly nieve.

    Not sure what your point is on Russia and China. You seem to think that Trump could play divide and conquer and turn Russia and China against each other? That is my whole point though. Trumps pathetic plan to bomb Syria in order to intimidate China did not work and only weakened his negotiating position. Nothing Trump does will turn Russia and China against each other, and everything Trump has done since elected has only cemented this relationship even more.

    Read More
  50. @anon
    I would prefer you explain why a country the size of Indonesia needs to expand . Particularly to expand to the Melanesian island of Papua . When the tanks rolled into Papua it was 99% Papuan Melanesian . Now due to ethnic cleansing ( transmigrasi) Papua is 60% Papuan Melanesian . Out of a population of 2 million , 500,000 have been killed . So 25% of the population killed in a genocide perpetrated by Indonesia .

    Since you disdain using real numbers lets do it your waay . Lets contrast this to the relatively benign conflict in Israel . Palestinian population : 4 million. casualties on the Palestinian side : 23,000 . Less than 1 % of the population killed in a low level conflict.

    Again
    Indonesia has killed 25% of the Melanesian Papuan population in occupied Papua .
    Israel has killed less than 1% of the Palestinian population in the conflict.
    Indonesia is occupying 130,000 square miles of Papua
    Israel - Palestinian conflict is in regards to less than 2500 square miles.

    First off, I’ve never seen any legitimate source cite the figure up as high as half a million – provide your source – an academic, objective one would be nice.

    There is no doubt that the Indonesian military has killed thousands upon thousands of people in Papau – many of them innocent non-combatants.

    I denounce the slaughter of innocents committed by both Indonesia and Israel; do you?

    Again:
    Israel has gobbled up close to 30% of its area
    Indonesia has gobbled up close to 20% of its area

    Peace.

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  51. May be this will divert Qatar away from active support to terrorists . If it does , it should be careful and should learn for Turkey . Because Saudis will kill them and kill other . Terrorism is what saudis engage to when money doesn’t work .

    Remember how squids made threats against Russia over Sochi and against Blair ‘s UK over BAE investigation n

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  52. @anon
    It is part of Ukraine . And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? They have more than enough space for their current population . Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1 and they have a low life expectancy coupled with rampant alcoholism so they will not need extra land in the future. What the deal here ?

    Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1

    Are you posting from 1999? In 2016, Russia’s fertility rate was 1.75.

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  53. @anon
    Hey Avery
    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely . Any problems that Gazans may have they can take up with their elected government , Hamas. Of course its a moot point because Hamas was not elected to solve problems , but to be Jihad Warriors.

    From your population density charts we can see that Israel and the Palestinian Authority are basically on par and Gaza is the outlier with 10x more population density. But lets add another wrinkle to the equation .Lets account for all of Palestine . Jordan currently controls 78% of Palestine . Jordan population density is less than 100.

    Gaza 5000
    West Bank 465
    Israel 376
    Jordan 85

    So we have Jordan with 78% of Palestine and the lowest population density by far . And you have Israel , Gaza and west bank fighting for 22 % of Palestine and with much higher population density than Jordan. Seems Jordan is extremely unfair to everyone else .

    Israel is the SS of the concentration camp Gaza

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Israel left Gaza like 10 years ago. Keep on cucking , Jill.
    , @Eagle Eye

    Israel is the SS of the concentration camp Gaza
     
    1. Israel pulled out of Gaza more than 10 years ago.

    2. Egypt ditched Gaza long ago - they don't want anything to do with this trouble spot.

    3. The population of Gaza more than quintupled from 1970 to 2014, from 340,000 to 1,820,000, according to U.S. Census (!) figures.

    If you want to protest human rights abuses, find a country that really engages in them, e.g. North Korea (death and labor camps), Mauritania (actual chattel slavery), Sudan (ditto), most of the rest of Black Africa, etc. Of course, our MSM don't write much about those hellholes because they don't have good five-star hotels.

  54. Why do Gabon and Senegal care? I know that you know the answer, money. I can just picture these African dictators with the Qataris on one phone line and the Saudis on the other figuring out which one will funnel more money into their personal bank accounts to declare their support this week.

    Usually it’s the Qataris who excel at this but I guess Saudis’ pockets are deeper in absolute terms and perhaps they are more savvy in using their financial leverage after decades of expert practice. Plus Qatar has economic challenges of its own; the newish emir has been imposing measures of austerity as the sheikhs have grown too profligate even for that rich country to absorb.

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  55. @anon
    Hey Avery
    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely . Any problems that Gazans may have they can take up with their elected government , Hamas. Of course its a moot point because Hamas was not elected to solve problems , but to be Jihad Warriors.

    From your population density charts we can see that Israel and the Palestinian Authority are basically on par and Gaza is the outlier with 10x more population density. But lets add another wrinkle to the equation .Lets account for all of Palestine . Jordan currently controls 78% of Palestine . Jordan population density is less than 100.

    Gaza 5000
    West Bank 465
    Israel 376
    Jordan 85

    So we have Jordan with 78% of Palestine and the lowest population density by far . And you have Israel , Gaza and west bank fighting for 22 % of Palestine and with much higher population density than Jordan. Seems Jordan is extremely unfair to everyone else .

    {Hey Avery
    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . }

    Hey [anon], Russia has nothing to do with Israel.
    Neither does Jordan.

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  56. yup, the Israelis are backing the KSA. This is hardly surprising, no matter how hard the western corporate media tries to not notice this.

    Those who bank together – stay together. Israel and Saudi both bank with the Rothschilds.

    Just like with Israeli nukes, any MSM person who talks about Israeli-Saudi cooperation will lose their livelihood.

    Israeli Zionism and Saudi Wahhabism are old world brothers. They are both dedicated tribalists.

    Benign and open philosophical Christianity is their arch enemy.

    Peace — Art

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  57. @Lot

    Three Rogue States (USA, Saudi Arabia, Israel)
     
    Saker-retard shows the reality that anti-Israel people are Muslimists who hate the USA too.

    Too bad for you, your Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood terrorist friends are going to lose their biggest safe space, biggest financier, and most friendly media coverage (Qatar-owned Al Jazeera). It just really burns him up that Israel now has a friendly relationship with both Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Gulf States.

    > Brags of friendship with Saudi Arabia
    > Calls you the Muslimist

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  58. But ever since the January coup against Flynn and Trump’s surrender to the Neocons all we have seen in one form of delusional stupidity after another.

    This is pure Ivanka and Jared Kushner exerting their power. This is NOT Steve Bannon think!

    This is biblical. Ivanka is the second coming of Esther. Esther is the Jewess historical figure who turned the head of the Persian king and gave power to the Jew tribe. Her story – Purim – is the most important celebration in the Jew culture. Is King Trump (i.e., Daddy) going to turn Iran over to his first love, his daughter.

    The Jew’s modus operandi is to get someone close to Gentile power, and to use the connection to do their Jew tribal bidding. How much closer can you get then the king’s daughter, who is his first love.

    This is very very dangerous – this not all about strategic statecraft – this is now personal to the most powerful person one the planet. The Jews control all the other levers of power in America – they want a war on Iran – only Trump can say no.

    The question is – can Daddy Trump say no to Ivanka? War or peace depends on it.

    Peace — Art

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  59. The question I don’t see discussed here is why *now*? Qatar didn’t just suddenly become too cozy with Iran, and it didn’t overnight acquire NG resources. So why are the Saudis (and by implications the Americans and Israelis) mad all of a sudden?

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  60. @mcohen
    Thanks for that....2015.a lot has happened including the opening up of gas reserves on the Mediterranean.both turkey and Qatar have us airbases so that is leverage.regardless it Is one thing building a pipeline and another keeping it secure.Qatar has been trying to build up leverage on Israel via the Palestinians but that has come to and end with trumps push for peace.ideally peace does not suit qatars plans so gaza could explode soon.hence qatars flirtation with iran hoping to stir up trouble in s.lebanon via hezb.
    Al thani ran from Syria.maybe they can send him to s.lebanon for some character building

    Things don’t happen overnight. ISIS wouldn’t keel over the first day the money stopped. (if it did).

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  61. @Avery
    Russian lands _given_ to the Ukrainian 'territory'.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140504_3602.jpg

    Crimea, as well as most of what now is called 'Ukraine', were/are Russian lands.

    Not according to treaties signed by the Russian Federation at the break up of the Soviet Union and thereafter.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    What agreements?

    Furthermore, _any_ agreements signed between Russia and Ukraine became null and void when the legitimate government of Ukraine with which Russia may or may not have signed some agreement or other was illegally overthrown by neo-Nazi coup.

    The current government of Ukraine is a criminal, illegal entity.
    There can be no discussion of 'signed agreements' between Russia and an illegal entity.

    Next.

  62. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    Israel is the SS of the concentration camp Gaza

    Israel left Gaza like 10 years ago. Keep on cucking , Jill.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Gaza of course is a concentration camp, guarded by Israel.
    I always wonder when zionists write lies as you do if they believe their own lies, if they do, they're ready for psychiatric treatment.
    If they on purpose write lies like this, I wonder what they think it will accomplish.
    Do they really think anyone interested still buys lies like this ?
    Do they not realise how they damage their own case ?
    Anyone reading lies like this has the choice between thinking 'these people are completely nuts' and 'these people are completely inhuman'.
    And please, stop arguing.
  63. @anon
    Or an even better way to look at it is :

    Why do these huge countries that already have plenty of land need to steal more land and dispossess the native population of what is rightfully theirs ??


    And of course the fact remains that these countries are expanding by hundreds of thousands of square miles more than Israel has in real numbers .

    As I wrote before – nobody owns anything when Israelis are around. What is yours is not yours, it is Israeli. God “gave” Israelites the ownership, which they implement with guns bought for them by US taxpayer. One just needs to see the time-shift maps of the ME to appreciate how moronically lying your claims are. But then, also, one just needs to open any US/British/French MSM to get the same sewage that you spout.

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  64. @Philip Owen
    Not according to treaties signed by the Russian Federation at the break up of the Soviet Union and thereafter.

    What agreements?

    Furthermore, _any_ agreements signed between Russia and Ukraine became null and void when the legitimate government of Ukraine with which Russia may or may not have signed some agreement or other was illegally overthrown by neo-Nazi coup.

    The current government of Ukraine is a criminal, illegal entity.
    There can be no discussion of ‘signed agreements’ between Russia and an illegal entity.

    Next.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Leaving aside historical questions of whether Crimea is really Russian and the extent to which the Crimean population really wanted union with Russia, the fact is Russia acted in an entirely justifiable and defensive manner in preventing the hostile Anglo-Zionist entity from cutting off its access to the Black Sea. Their hand was forced, but as we know context is verboten in end-of-days America.
    , @Kiza
    Yes, there was an agreement on Ukraine between Russia, US and UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

    This maintained Ukraine with borders as when a Republic of USSR but also stipulated no interference into Ukraine's internal affairs by any of the signatories. The US broke this agreement when it conducted a coup in Ukraine. Then Russia broke it too by accepting Crimean ascension into the Russian Federation.

    There are two general Western propaganda strategies on this matter:
    1) mention that Russia signed an agreement but not which one it was, as this propaganda character here calls it "and other agreements", and
    2) mention that it was the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances but pretend that US coup in Ukraine never happened - the history starts from the "Russian Annexation of Crimea".
  65. Most of the land in Saudi Arabia is desert, absolutely worthless and too far from the coast(s) to be arable by desalination plants.

    MAYBE, just maybe SA wants Qatar because it sits on decent land, by the coast, with a great port or two and decent roads. Beats starting from scratch somewhere else to “keep an eye” on Iran across the bay.

    Same reason SA wants Yemen and Israel is always trying to take….. well……. everything.

    And yes, you might as well think of SA as Israel South, a huge refuge for the Rothshild mafia and a few figurehead paid-off Arab tyrants to keep up appearances. And a LOT of oil. I’m sure that had nothing to do with why the Rothschilds have such a major presence there.

    The only thing royal about the Saudi “royals” is that it’s a royal scam……. created in about 1930 by the same Brits who created Israel.

    I’m sure SA has big plans for all their new weapons (courtesy of Trump) in Qatar

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    • Replies: @Art
    I’m sure SA has big plans for all their new weapons (courtesy of Trump) in Qatar

    The Saudis make the worst solders in the world - they are gutless. Mercenaries are doing the fighting in Yemen – their fighter pilots are Paki’s. Saudi Arabia belongs to its royals. Its people do not want to die for the them.

    Trump did one to many sword dances and the Saudi royals are feeling their oats.

    Let us hope there will be NO war – the US does not want one – Russia does not want one – Iran does not want one – only Saudi and Israel want one (the worst of the bunch).

    Why to the evil backwards tribalist Zionists and Wahhabists dominate our foreign policy?

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. War with Iran is not America First.

    , @Philip Owen
    "created in about 1930 by the same Brits who created Israel." No. Created by the predecessor to the CIA in order to keep out the Hashemites who were backed by Britain.
  66. @DaveE
    Most of the land in Saudi Arabia is desert, absolutely worthless and too far from the coast(s) to be arable by desalination plants.

    MAYBE, just maybe SA wants Qatar because it sits on decent land, by the coast, with a great port or two and decent roads. Beats starting from scratch somewhere else to "keep an eye" on Iran across the bay.

    Same reason SA wants Yemen and Israel is always trying to take..... well....... everything.

    And yes, you might as well think of SA as Israel South, a huge refuge for the Rothshild mafia and a few figurehead paid-off Arab tyrants to keep up appearances. And a LOT of oil. I'm sure that had nothing to do with why the Rothschilds have such a major presence there.

    The only thing royal about the Saudi "royals" is that it's a royal scam....... created in about 1930 by the same Brits who created Israel.

    I'm sure SA has big plans for all their new weapons (courtesy of Trump) in Qatar

    I’m sure SA has big plans for all their new weapons (courtesy of Trump) in Qatar

    The Saudis make the worst solders in the world – they are gutless. Mercenaries are doing the fighting in Yemen – their fighter pilots are Paki’s. Saudi Arabia belongs to its royals. Its people do not want to die for the them.

    Trump did one to many sword dances and the Saudi royals are feeling their oats.

    Let us hope there will be NO war – the US does not want one – Russia does not want one – Iran does not want one – only Saudi and Israel want one (the worst of the bunch).

    Why to the evil backwards tribalist Zionists and Wahhabists dominate our foreign policy?

    Peace — Art

    p.s. War with Iran is not America First.

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    • Replies: @DaveE
    Hi Art..... I tend to agree, it ain't gonna work, for many reasons. Nonetheless it's clear what the agenda is and who's behind it, once you understand WHO pulls all the strings in Saudi Arabia.

    I guess my point is that this is all a rather transparent desperation move by the Chosenites, both as a land grab for SA and a clear threat to Iran. I'm gonna start abbreviating Saudi Arabia as IS. Israel South.

    Trump's weapons deal for SA was the "straw that broke the camel's back" for me and my support of Mr. Trumpowitz.

    BTW I enjoy your comments and as usual, I agree, mostly.
  67. @Avery
    What agreements?

    Furthermore, _any_ agreements signed between Russia and Ukraine became null and void when the legitimate government of Ukraine with which Russia may or may not have signed some agreement or other was illegally overthrown by neo-Nazi coup.

    The current government of Ukraine is a criminal, illegal entity.
    There can be no discussion of 'signed agreements' between Russia and an illegal entity.

    Next.

    Leaving aside historical questions of whether Crimea is really Russian and the extent to which the Crimean population really wanted union with Russia, the fact is Russia acted in an entirely justifiable and defensive manner in preventing the hostile Anglo-Zionist entity from cutting off its access to the Black Sea. Their hand was forced, but as we know context is verboten in end-of-days America.

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  68. @Kiza

    The real Qatari ‘crime’ was to refuse, on purely pragmatic reasons, to join into the massive anti-Iranian campaign imposed on the region by Saudi Arabia and Israel.
     
    This is why it is worth reading this good article. I suspected this to be the reason from the start of the crisis: Qatar has been an active supporter of ME terrorism (including ISIS) just like KSA, US, Israel, UAE and Turkey. But they were never as anti-Iranian as the other members of this Coalition of the Lovers of Terrorism.

    Also, I liked this sentence on the diplomatic skill forgotten in the West:


    the semi-official strategy of the Russian Foreign Ministry which is to “turn enemies into neutrals, neutrals into friends, friends into allies”
     
    The West simply has no diplomacy any more, only the airforce and the bombs. Diplomacy has always been a highly rational means of achieving your own goals, where military should only be its extension tool, not a complete substitute. The Western MIC has made the Western countries forget this.

    But they were never as anti-Iranian as the other members of this Coalition of the Lovers of Terrorism.

    I really love that phrase..Lovers of Terrorism. It’s like an official mafioso with Israel as the GodFather who is always ready with an offer we can’t refuse. With Saudi Arabia as it’s right hand man. I wonder what roles the other smaller nations would play.

    The only ethical leaders in that region are the Omanis. And I might add the most humble of them oil rich Arabs if you’ve been to that place. And that is the most socially free Arab country in that bunch. You can be a devout Muslim or you can be total waste but they don’t care

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  69. @anon
    Hey Avery
    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely . Any problems that Gazans may have they can take up with their elected government , Hamas. Of course its a moot point because Hamas was not elected to solve problems , but to be Jihad Warriors.

    From your population density charts we can see that Israel and the Palestinian Authority are basically on par and Gaza is the outlier with 10x more population density. But lets add another wrinkle to the equation .Lets account for all of Palestine . Jordan currently controls 78% of Palestine . Jordan population density is less than 100.

    Gaza 5000
    West Bank 465
    Israel 376
    Jordan 85

    So we have Jordan with 78% of Palestine and the lowest population density by far . And you have Israel , Gaza and west bank fighting for 22 % of Palestine and with much higher population density than Jordan. Seems Jordan is extremely unfair to everyone else .

    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely .

    Talk about ignorance or head in the sand. Israel has complete blockade of Gaza; land air, and sea. She will not allow any UN observers, human rights people, or any humanitarian aid to the residents of Gaza. Remember the Turkish flotilla a few years ago where they not only blocked it from reaching Gaza but also killed people on board. Israel cuts off water and electricity to the population of Gaza. It also bombs Gaza at will. The Israeli atrocities against the people of Gaza are endless. Gaza is know as the largest open air prison.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    But the thing is that Israel doesn't *want* the Gaza Strip. Why would they? It isn't the West Bank. It has no value. You'd have to be utterly insane to want settle there-not even the hardiest Russian migrant would volunteer for that one.

    Gaza is the least valuable piece of real estate on Earth, or at least one of them. Total economic drain on anybody who would annex it, brimming with weapons, militants, drugs, social ills of all kinds, it is completely ungovernable in the sense of anything other than Hamas executing arbitrary street authority, etc. It is a lethal, Islamist, far more dysfunctional modern version of the Kowloon Walled City, with every proximate government authority avoiding it as much as they can. A "free, independent Gaza Strip", assuming such a thing could coherently exist without falling to chaos considering its state, would still be a completely dysfunctional hellhole that would then have open access to spread its problems Egypt to Israel. Barring a more permanent solution, somebody has to quarantine it.

    If Egypt were willing to take Gaza off their hands, the Israelis would happily give it to them in a heartbeat, but the Egyptians aren't that stupid and would (however privately) tell the Israelis to screw off if they proposed such a thing. The rest of the world generally doesn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole, quite justifiably, and for all the open borders insanity of the Europeans, there are no current plans to let tens of thousands of Gazans emigrate abroad, thus actually doing something practical to ease Gaza's endless woes. So, for the forseeable future, Israel is stuck with it, and the current cycle will continue ad nauseum. I'm far from a kneejerk Israel apologist, but attacking them on this specific issue is unfair. If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they'd advocate open emigration for them specifically, instead of just about anybody else from backwards parts of the Islamic World.

  70. @Avery
    What agreements?

    Furthermore, _any_ agreements signed between Russia and Ukraine became null and void when the legitimate government of Ukraine with which Russia may or may not have signed some agreement or other was illegally overthrown by neo-Nazi coup.

    The current government of Ukraine is a criminal, illegal entity.
    There can be no discussion of 'signed agreements' between Russia and an illegal entity.

    Next.

    Yes, there was an agreement on Ukraine between Russia, US and UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

    This maintained Ukraine with borders as when a Republic of USSR but also stipulated no interference into Ukraine’s internal affairs by any of the signatories. The US broke this agreement when it conducted a coup in Ukraine. Then Russia broke it too by accepting Crimean ascension into the Russian Federation.

    There are two general Western propaganda strategies on this matter:
    1) mention that Russia signed an agreement but not which one it was, as this propaganda character here calls it “and other agreements”, and
    2) mention that it was the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances but pretend that US coup in Ukraine never happened – the history starts from the “Russian Annexation of Crimea”.

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  71. @anon
    Israel left Gaza like 10 years ago. Keep on cucking , Jill.

    Gaza of course is a concentration camp, guarded by Israel.
    I always wonder when zionists write lies as you do if they believe their own lies, if they do, they’re ready for psychiatric treatment.
    If they on purpose write lies like this, I wonder what they think it will accomplish.
    Do they really think anyone interested still buys lies like this ?
    Do they not realise how they damage their own case ?
    Anyone reading lies like this has the choice between thinking ‘these people are completely nuts’ and ‘these people are completely inhuman’.
    And please, stop arguing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    The readers should be aware of t 'anon' as a Zionist troll imposing as 'progressive' to fool dummies to save the criminal tribe. His comments at 'Richard falk' website and here are testimony to that. He is part of the criminal TRIBE's army to fool YOU. Be aware of it.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments


    {“Intriguingly, neither Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), nor Israel, that is, the principal antagonists of Qatar, have been ever targeted by ISIS.”

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.

    If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.

    Nasrallah would likely have begged the IDF to save Hezbollah from defeat. Fortunately for Nasrallah, POTUS Obama saved him.}
    , @Talha
    Hey JD,

    ‘these people are completely inhuman’
     
    To figure out their sincerity on these other occupations and numbers like square footage of land, body counts (inflated) that they fling around as distractions, one need only apply a little litmus test. I asked two key questions and have (as yet) received no answers.

    You can also explain why Israel sells weapons to nations like Morocco and Indonesia.

    I denounce the slaughter of innocents committed by both Indonesia and Israel; do you?

    I have asked these questions before and received silence on both points. Note the second one is a pretty softball question - I specifically mentioned innocents - not militia types or armed insurgents. Who is for the slaughtering of innocents in any war? It's a no-brainer...but no answer. Tells you the kind of person we are dealing with.

    Peace.
  72. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    Gaza of course is a concentration camp, guarded by Israel.
    I always wonder when zionists write lies as you do if they believe their own lies, if they do, they're ready for psychiatric treatment.
    If they on purpose write lies like this, I wonder what they think it will accomplish.
    Do they really think anyone interested still buys lies like this ?
    Do they not realise how they damage their own case ?
    Anyone reading lies like this has the choice between thinking 'these people are completely nuts' and 'these people are completely inhuman'.
    And please, stop arguing.

    The readers should be aware of t ‘anon’ as a Zionist troll imposing as ‘progressive’ to fool dummies to save the criminal tribe. His comments at ‘Richard falk’ website and here are testimony to that. He is part of the criminal TRIBE’s army to fool YOU. Be aware of it.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments

    {“Intriguingly, neither Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), nor Israel, that is, the principal antagonists of Qatar, have been ever targeted by ISIS.”

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.

    If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.

    Nasrallah would likely have begged the IDF to save Hezbollah from defeat. Fortunately for Nasrallah, POTUS Obama saved him.}

    Read More
    • Replies: @MEexpert

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.
     
    When have the ISIS attacked either Saudi Arabia, UAE, or any of the other Gulf monarchies? The only attack by ISIS in Saudi Arabia was against the Shiites in the eastern region sanctioned by the Saudi government. Furthermore, it is a known fact that Saudi Arabia has been funding and supplying weapons to ISIS, so why would ISIS attack their patrons?
    , @Avery
    {If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.}

    You are joking, right?

    (psssst: it was President Putin and the Russian AF, and Russian Kalibr cruise missiles, and Russian...and of course the heroic SAA which fought tenaciously for Syria .that did the trick.)

    , @L.K
    That anon is indeed another miserable zio troll is a given, but from your RIDICULOUS post one can be certain that so are you.

    Your post contains nothing except for the most laughable disinformation.
  73. @survey-of-disinfo

    [Europe becomes a "Khalifate"] at which point it will then turn on the other half of the planet.
     
    It is not clear if the quoted contributer is uneducated, misinformed, or merely channeling historic Western insistence on lording over the rest of planet in guise of an insecure alarmist.

    It is not news that Europe and the West (without any ideological basis in a Muslim Khalifate) have for the past few hundred years been treating both halves of the planet as their prey. Keep boo hoo hooing over those gates of Vienna episode but seriously how many HUNDREDS of millions of people have you lot killed in the past few hundred years? Let's get real. Enough of this bullshit.

    How many killed by Europeans in the last say 400 years? Not hundreds of millions. That *really* is ignorant bullshit. You could be a typical journalist you are so innumerate. Just Google for “what was the population of the world in ĺ700″ and you will immediztely see a lower estimate of 600 and higher estimate of 679 million. What makes your blathering look even sillier is that Western science and medicine have been amongst the mozt important contributors to the very reverse of your asserted facts. Literally billions of people have been born and survived to adulthood and now increasingly into old sge since Europe began imposing itself on the world. BTW can you point to any massacre of series of killings by Europeans outside Europe which killed a tenth as many people as China’s and India’s regular famines?

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  74. @jilles dykstra
    Gaza of course is a concentration camp, guarded by Israel.
    I always wonder when zionists write lies as you do if they believe their own lies, if they do, they're ready for psychiatric treatment.
    If they on purpose write lies like this, I wonder what they think it will accomplish.
    Do they really think anyone interested still buys lies like this ?
    Do they not realise how they damage their own case ?
    Anyone reading lies like this has the choice between thinking 'these people are completely nuts' and 'these people are completely inhuman'.
    And please, stop arguing.

    Hey JD,

    ‘these people are completely inhuman’

    To figure out their sincerity on these other occupations and numbers like square footage of land, body counts (inflated) that they fling around as distractions, one need only apply a little litmus test. I asked two key questions and have (as yet) received no answers.

    You can also explain why Israel sells weapons to nations like Morocco and Indonesia.

    I denounce the slaughter of innocents committed by both Indonesia and Israel; do you?

    I have asked these questions before and received silence on both points. Note the second one is a pretty softball question – I specifically mentioned innocents – not militia types or armed insurgents. Who is for the slaughtering of innocents in any war? It’s a no-brainer…but no answer. Tells you the kind of person we are dealing with.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @truthtellerAryan
    Well, you should know by now, when we slaughter the innocents, that's just "collateral damage "... no feelings whatsoever
  75. @MEexpert

    Israel has nothing to do with Gaza anymore . They pulled out completely .
     
    Talk about ignorance or head in the sand. Israel has complete blockade of Gaza; land air, and sea. She will not allow any UN observers, human rights people, or any humanitarian aid to the residents of Gaza. Remember the Turkish flotilla a few years ago where they not only blocked it from reaching Gaza but also killed people on board. Israel cuts off water and electricity to the population of Gaza. It also bombs Gaza at will. The Israeli atrocities against the people of Gaza are endless. Gaza is know as the largest open air prison.

    But the thing is that Israel doesn’t *want* the Gaza Strip. Why would they? It isn’t the West Bank. It has no value. You’d have to be utterly insane to want settle there-not even the hardiest Russian migrant would volunteer for that one.

    Gaza is the least valuable piece of real estate on Earth, or at least one of them. Total economic drain on anybody who would annex it, brimming with weapons, militants, drugs, social ills of all kinds, it is completely ungovernable in the sense of anything other than Hamas executing arbitrary street authority, etc. It is a lethal, Islamist, far more dysfunctional modern version of the Kowloon Walled City, with every proximate government authority avoiding it as much as they can. A “free, independent Gaza Strip”, assuming such a thing could coherently exist without falling to chaos considering its state, would still be a completely dysfunctional hellhole that would then have open access to spread its problems Egypt to Israel. Barring a more permanent solution, somebody has to quarantine it.

    If Egypt were willing to take Gaza off their hands, the Israelis would happily give it to them in a heartbeat, but the Egyptians aren’t that stupid and would (however privately) tell the Israelis to screw off if they proposed such a thing. The rest of the world generally doesn’t want to touch it with a ten-foot pole, quite justifiably, and for all the open borders insanity of the Europeans, there are no current plans to let tens of thousands of Gazans emigrate abroad, thus actually doing something practical to ease Gaza’s endless woes. So, for the forseeable future, Israel is stuck with it, and the current cycle will continue ad nauseum. I’m far from a kneejerk Israel apologist, but attacking them on this specific issue is unfair. If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they’d advocate open emigration for them specifically, instead of just about anybody else from backwards parts of the Islamic World.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    The plan for a Palestinian state is West Bank plus Gaza, connected by an extraterritorial connection.
    It is the best offer Israel will ever get.
    Israel can go on trying to ignore the Gaza time bomb, but it will explode, one way or another.
    At present Israel still has some support in the world, but it is diminishing.
    Very stupid people, jews, in my opinion, they always believed their own stories.
    , @MEexpert

    But the thing is that Israel doesn’t *want* the Gaza Strip.
     
    So why don't they just give it up and let the Gazans take care of their own business?

    If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they’d advocate open emigration for them
     
    Why do the Gazans have to enigrate anywhere? Why doesn't Israel mind her own affairs and let Gazans alone? No one is forcing Gaza on Israel.
    , @L.K
    Hmmm... for somebody claiming to be 'far from a kneejerk Israel apologist', you sure as hell come across as yet another zionist shill.

    Do tell us, oh nebula, who exactly created the mess in Gaza in the first place, by stealing almost all Palestinian land, terrorizing and ethnic cleansing the Palestinians?
    Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    Israeli historian and author, Ilan Pappe, wrote in his article 'Israel’s incremental genocide in the Gaza ghetto', https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-incremental-genocide-gaza-ghetto/13562 :

    The Zionist strategy of branding its brutal policies as an ad hoc response to this or that Palestinian action is as old as the Zionist presence in Palestine itself. It was used repeatedly as a justification for implementing the Zionist vision of a future Palestine that has in it very few, if any, native Palestinians.

    The means for achieving this goal changed with the years, but the formula has remained the same: whatever the Zionist vision of a Jewish State might be, it can only materialize without any significant number of Palestinians in it. And nowadays the vision is of an Israel stretching over almost the whole of historic Palestine where millions of Palestinians still live.
    ...
    Ever since June 1967, Israel searched for a way to keep the territories it occupied that year without incorporating their indigenous Palestinian population into its rights-bearing citizenry. All the while it participated in a “peace process” charade to cover up or buy time for its unilateral colonization policies on the ground.

    With the decades, Israel differentiated between areas it wished to control directly and those it would manage indirectly, with the aim in the long run of downsizing the Palestinian population to a minimum with, among other means, ethnic cleansing and economic and geographic strangulation.

    The geopolitical location of the West Bank creates the impression in Israel, at least, that it is possible to achieve this without anticipating a third uprising or too much international condemnation.

    The Gaza Strip, due to its unique geopolitical location, did not lend itself that easily to such a strategy. Ever since 1994, and even more so when Ariel Sharon came to power as prime minister in the early 2000s, the strategy there was to ghettoize Gaza and somehow hope that the people there — 1.8 million as of today — would be dropped into eternal oblivion.
     
  76. Anonymous, and Talha,

    What IS wants, I do not know.
    Stories are that IS is just former Iraq military officers, atheists, with the footmen religious Muslims.
    In my view just resistance to western occupation.
    The present Iraqi government to me are just western puppets.

    Zionist propagandists, I do not understand them.
    Anyone interested in the zionist Palestinian conflict by now knows that zionists in 1939 started planning to fight the British first in Palestine, after WWII, and then the Palestinians.
    There are some four or five million Palestinian refugees, Gaza is a concentration camp.
    Why these propagandists try to ignore these facts, I cannot understand, they just harm their own cause.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    There is plenty of information at this point that clearly shows ZUSA & its allies helped create/nurture ISIS.

    Contrary to what you think, the Iraqi government had shifted away too much from Zio US control, and too closely to Iran for their taste.

    ISIS was the creature created to be strategically used against Syria and Iraq, then justifying further US intervention in the area.
    Remember ZUSA used the threat of ISIS to force the previous Iraqi prime minister, thought to be too close to Iran, to resign.
  77. @nebulafox
    But the thing is that Israel doesn't *want* the Gaza Strip. Why would they? It isn't the West Bank. It has no value. You'd have to be utterly insane to want settle there-not even the hardiest Russian migrant would volunteer for that one.

    Gaza is the least valuable piece of real estate on Earth, or at least one of them. Total economic drain on anybody who would annex it, brimming with weapons, militants, drugs, social ills of all kinds, it is completely ungovernable in the sense of anything other than Hamas executing arbitrary street authority, etc. It is a lethal, Islamist, far more dysfunctional modern version of the Kowloon Walled City, with every proximate government authority avoiding it as much as they can. A "free, independent Gaza Strip", assuming such a thing could coherently exist without falling to chaos considering its state, would still be a completely dysfunctional hellhole that would then have open access to spread its problems Egypt to Israel. Barring a more permanent solution, somebody has to quarantine it.

    If Egypt were willing to take Gaza off their hands, the Israelis would happily give it to them in a heartbeat, but the Egyptians aren't that stupid and would (however privately) tell the Israelis to screw off if they proposed such a thing. The rest of the world generally doesn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole, quite justifiably, and for all the open borders insanity of the Europeans, there are no current plans to let tens of thousands of Gazans emigrate abroad, thus actually doing something practical to ease Gaza's endless woes. So, for the forseeable future, Israel is stuck with it, and the current cycle will continue ad nauseum. I'm far from a kneejerk Israel apologist, but attacking them on this specific issue is unfair. If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they'd advocate open emigration for them specifically, instead of just about anybody else from backwards parts of the Islamic World.

    The plan for a Palestinian state is West Bank plus Gaza, connected by an extraterritorial connection.
    It is the best offer Israel will ever get.
    Israel can go on trying to ignore the Gaza time bomb, but it will explode, one way or another.
    At present Israel still has some support in the world, but it is diminishing.
    Very stupid people, jews, in my opinion, they always believed their own stories.

    Read More
  78. @Talha
    Hey JD,

    ‘these people are completely inhuman’
     
    To figure out their sincerity on these other occupations and numbers like square footage of land, body counts (inflated) that they fling around as distractions, one need only apply a little litmus test. I asked two key questions and have (as yet) received no answers.

    You can also explain why Israel sells weapons to nations like Morocco and Indonesia.

    I denounce the slaughter of innocents committed by both Indonesia and Israel; do you?

    I have asked these questions before and received silence on both points. Note the second one is a pretty softball question - I specifically mentioned innocents - not militia types or armed insurgents. Who is for the slaughtering of innocents in any war? It's a no-brainer...but no answer. Tells you the kind of person we are dealing with.

    Peace.

    Well, you should know by now, when we slaughter the innocents, that’s just “collateral damage “… no feelings whatsoever

    Read More
  79. @Art
    I’m sure SA has big plans for all their new weapons (courtesy of Trump) in Qatar

    The Saudis make the worst solders in the world - they are gutless. Mercenaries are doing the fighting in Yemen – their fighter pilots are Paki’s. Saudi Arabia belongs to its royals. Its people do not want to die for the them.

    Trump did one to many sword dances and the Saudi royals are feeling their oats.

    Let us hope there will be NO war – the US does not want one – Russia does not want one – Iran does not want one – only Saudi and Israel want one (the worst of the bunch).

    Why to the evil backwards tribalist Zionists and Wahhabists dominate our foreign policy?

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. War with Iran is not America First.

    Hi Art….. I tend to agree, it ain’t gonna work, for many reasons. Nonetheless it’s clear what the agenda is and who’s behind it, once you understand WHO pulls all the strings in Saudi Arabia.

    I guess my point is that this is all a rather transparent desperation move by the Chosenites, both as a land grab for SA and a clear threat to Iran. I’m gonna start abbreviating Saudi Arabia as IS. Israel South.

    Trump’s weapons deal for SA was the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for me and my support of Mr. Trumpowitz.

    BTW I enjoy your comments and as usual, I agree, mostly.

    Read More
  80. @nebulafox
    But the thing is that Israel doesn't *want* the Gaza Strip. Why would they? It isn't the West Bank. It has no value. You'd have to be utterly insane to want settle there-not even the hardiest Russian migrant would volunteer for that one.

    Gaza is the least valuable piece of real estate on Earth, or at least one of them. Total economic drain on anybody who would annex it, brimming with weapons, militants, drugs, social ills of all kinds, it is completely ungovernable in the sense of anything other than Hamas executing arbitrary street authority, etc. It is a lethal, Islamist, far more dysfunctional modern version of the Kowloon Walled City, with every proximate government authority avoiding it as much as they can. A "free, independent Gaza Strip", assuming such a thing could coherently exist without falling to chaos considering its state, would still be a completely dysfunctional hellhole that would then have open access to spread its problems Egypt to Israel. Barring a more permanent solution, somebody has to quarantine it.

    If Egypt were willing to take Gaza off their hands, the Israelis would happily give it to them in a heartbeat, but the Egyptians aren't that stupid and would (however privately) tell the Israelis to screw off if they proposed such a thing. The rest of the world generally doesn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole, quite justifiably, and for all the open borders insanity of the Europeans, there are no current plans to let tens of thousands of Gazans emigrate abroad, thus actually doing something practical to ease Gaza's endless woes. So, for the forseeable future, Israel is stuck with it, and the current cycle will continue ad nauseum. I'm far from a kneejerk Israel apologist, but attacking them on this specific issue is unfair. If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they'd advocate open emigration for them specifically, instead of just about anybody else from backwards parts of the Islamic World.

    But the thing is that Israel doesn’t *want* the Gaza Strip.

    So why don’t they just give it up and let the Gazans take care of their own business?

    If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they’d advocate open emigration for them

    Why do the Gazans have to enigrate anywhere? Why doesn’t Israel mind her own affairs and let Gazans alone? No one is forcing Gaza on Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    >So why don’t they just give it up and let the Gazans take care of their own business?

    As I said before: because they are stuck with it. Nobody else wants it, especially not the Egyptians, considering all the weapons and potential radicals that could flow into Egypt if they took it. Israel would probably be quite happy to forget that the place exists. (That's before we get to the disease, the drugs, etc.) But left unchecked, all the unpleasant things festering in Gaza can spill across the border. So, the best Israel can do is keep a lid on the place to prevent Gaza's ills from spilling over, do the ritualistic punishment of Hamas when attacked, and otherwise keep their distance.

    Again: it is like the Kowloon Walled City, which neither the British nor the Chinese wanted responsibility for and thus suffered from a gray legal status. Only far more massive, and far more dangerous. Instead of the Triads emerging to take some semblance of authority, you have Hamas.

    >Why do the Gazans have to enigrate anywhere?

    Well, that would probably be the most practical way to improve their lives and bring some sort of end to their suffering, considering that a lot of Gaza's problems stem from massive overcrowding.

  81. @anonymous
    The readers should be aware of t 'anon' as a Zionist troll imposing as 'progressive' to fool dummies to save the criminal tribe. His comments at 'Richard falk' website and here are testimony to that. He is part of the criminal TRIBE's army to fool YOU. Be aware of it.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments


    {“Intriguingly, neither Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), nor Israel, that is, the principal antagonists of Qatar, have been ever targeted by ISIS.”

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.

    If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.

    Nasrallah would likely have begged the IDF to save Hezbollah from defeat. Fortunately for Nasrallah, POTUS Obama saved him.}

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.

    When have the ISIS attacked either Saudi Arabia, UAE, or any of the other Gulf monarchies? The only attack by ISIS in Saudi Arabia was against the Shiites in the eastern region sanctioned by the Saudi government. Furthermore, it is a known fact that Saudi Arabia has been funding and supplying weapons to ISIS, so why would ISIS attack their patrons?

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    'anonymous' is just another troll.
    , @anonymous
    Please read the comment correctly. I am saying that 'anon' is a Zionist troll and the quote that you posted is HIS not MINE. Please open the link to understand what I am saying.
  82. @anonymous
    The readers should be aware of t 'anon' as a Zionist troll imposing as 'progressive' to fool dummies to save the criminal tribe. His comments at 'Richard falk' website and here are testimony to that. He is part of the criminal TRIBE's army to fool YOU. Be aware of it.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments


    {“Intriguingly, neither Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), nor Israel, that is, the principal antagonists of Qatar, have been ever targeted by ISIS.”

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.

    If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.

    Nasrallah would likely have begged the IDF to save Hezbollah from defeat. Fortunately for Nasrallah, POTUS Obama saved him.}

    {If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.}

    You are joking, right?

    (psssst: it was President Putin and the Russian AF, and Russian Kalibr cruise missiles, and Russian…and of course the heroic SAA which fought tenaciously for Syria .that did the trick.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    This is the words of the Zionist troll 'anon' that I am quoting to show that he is a Zionist imposter. Why don't you read carefully. Please open the link and read his comments to see that he cannot be trusted. These are 'anon' words, a Zionist troll.


    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments
  83. @MEexpert

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.
     
    When have the ISIS attacked either Saudi Arabia, UAE, or any of the other Gulf monarchies? The only attack by ISIS in Saudi Arabia was against the Shiites in the eastern region sanctioned by the Saudi government. Furthermore, it is a known fact that Saudi Arabia has been funding and supplying weapons to ISIS, so why would ISIS attack their patrons?

    ‘anonymous’ is just another troll.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Read before exposing yourself as a careless person.

    I have noticed that 'anon' is a Zionist troll posting here and at the Richard Falk website.

    These are 'anon' words that I am trying to expose his true Zionist pro Israel face.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments
  84. @anonymous
    The readers should be aware of t 'anon' as a Zionist troll imposing as 'progressive' to fool dummies to save the criminal tribe. His comments at 'Richard falk' website and here are testimony to that. He is part of the criminal TRIBE's army to fool YOU. Be aware of it.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments


    {“Intriguingly, neither Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), nor Israel, that is, the principal antagonists of Qatar, have been ever targeted by ISIS.”

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.

    If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.

    Nasrallah would likely have begged the IDF to save Hezbollah from defeat. Fortunately for Nasrallah, POTUS Obama saved him.}

    That anon is indeed another miserable zio troll is a given, but from your RIDICULOUS post one can be certain that so are you.

    Your post contains nothing except for the most laughable disinformation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    You are really a dummy and I am not going to be engaged with ignorant people. I know what I am saying idiot. You have no knowledge of the middle east because youwesterners are ignorant beyond repair. Get history 101 before exposing yourself further.
  85. @jilles dykstra
    Anonymous, and Talha,

    What IS wants, I do not know.
    Stories are that IS is just former Iraq military officers, atheists, with the footmen religious Muslims.
    In my view just resistance to western occupation.
    The present Iraqi government to me are just western puppets.

    Zionist propagandists, I do not understand them.
    Anyone interested in the zionist Palestinian conflict by now knows that zionists in 1939 started planning to fight the British first in Palestine, after WWII, and then the Palestinians.
    There are some four or five million Palestinian refugees, Gaza is a concentration camp.
    Why these propagandists try to ignore these facts, I cannot understand, they just harm their own cause.

    There is plenty of information at this point that clearly shows ZUSA & its allies helped create/nurture ISIS.

    Contrary to what you think, the Iraqi government had shifted away too much from Zio US control, and too closely to Iran for their taste.

    ISIS was the creature created to be strategically used against Syria and Iraq, then justifying further US intervention in the area.
    Remember ZUSA used the threat of ISIS to force the previous Iraqi prime minister, thought to be too close to Iran, to resign.

    Read More
  86. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @MEexpert

    Respectfully this is 200% wrong. ISIS is strongly committed to conquering the ruling the whole world, including these three countries. They have viciously attacked KSA and the UAE and will continue to do so.
     
    When have the ISIS attacked either Saudi Arabia, UAE, or any of the other Gulf monarchies? The only attack by ISIS in Saudi Arabia was against the Shiites in the eastern region sanctioned by the Saudi government. Furthermore, it is a known fact that Saudi Arabia has been funding and supplying weapons to ISIS, so why would ISIS attack their patrons?

    Please read the comment correctly. I am saying that ‘anon’ is a Zionist troll and the quote that you posted is HIS not MINE. Please open the link to understand what I am saying.

    Read More
  87. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Avery
    {If not for President Obama’s intervention it is probable that ISIS and AQ would have overrun almost all of Syria and most of Lebanon by now; and decimated Hezbollah.}

    You are joking, right?

    (psssst: it was President Putin and the Russian AF, and Russian Kalibr cruise missiles, and Russian...and of course the heroic SAA which fought tenaciously for Syria .that did the trick.)

    This is the words of the Zionist troll ‘anon’ that I am quoting to show that he is a Zionist imposter. Why don’t you read carefully. Please open the link and read his comments to see that he cannot be trusted. These are ‘anon’ words, a Zionist troll.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Sorry: I did not read the entire quote within {.....}.

    My apologies.
  88. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @L.K
    'anonymous' is just another troll.

    Read before exposing yourself as a careless person.

    I have noticed that ‘anon’ is a Zionist troll posting here and at the Richard Falk website.

    These are ‘anon’ words that I am trying to expose his true Zionist pro Israel face.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments

    Read More
  89. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @L.K
    That anon is indeed another miserable zio troll is a given, but from your RIDICULOUS post one can be certain that so are you.

    Your post contains nothing except for the most laughable disinformation.

    You are really a dummy and I am not going to be engaged with ignorant people. I know what I am saying idiot. You have no knowledge of the middle east because youwesterners are ignorant beyond repair. Get history 101 before exposing yourself further.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Listen, no need for you to get hysterical.

    You presented anon's trolling in a careless/poor manner, and so it seemed to several people that his BS was, in fact, your own.

    That is the reason I called you a troll. For that I'm sorry.

    Take a chill pill & next time improve the way you present your info.
  90. @MEexpert

    But the thing is that Israel doesn’t *want* the Gaza Strip.
     
    So why don't they just give it up and let the Gazans take care of their own business?

    If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they’d advocate open emigration for them
     
    Why do the Gazans have to enigrate anywhere? Why doesn't Israel mind her own affairs and let Gazans alone? No one is forcing Gaza on Israel.

    >So why don’t they just give it up and let the Gazans take care of their own business?

    As I said before: because they are stuck with it. Nobody else wants it, especially not the Egyptians, considering all the weapons and potential radicals that could flow into Egypt if they took it. Israel would probably be quite happy to forget that the place exists. (That’s before we get to the disease, the drugs, etc.) But left unchecked, all the unpleasant things festering in Gaza can spill across the border. So, the best Israel can do is keep a lid on the place to prevent Gaza’s ills from spilling over, do the ritualistic punishment of Hamas when attacked, and otherwise keep their distance.

    Again: it is like the Kowloon Walled City, which neither the British nor the Chinese wanted responsibility for and thus suffered from a gray legal status. Only far more massive, and far more dangerous. Instead of the Triads emerging to take some semblance of authority, you have Hamas.

    >Why do the Gazans have to enigrate anywhere?

    Well, that would probably be the most practical way to improve their lives and bring some sort of end to their suffering, considering that a lot of Gaza’s problems stem from massive overcrowding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mcohen
    Gaza is good p.r for the cause and it is a well fortified position for attacking israel.has a civilian population to prevent an all out bombing campaign.
    There is one problem though.it has no sea walls to stop rising seas.
    any day now all will be released.from the west to the east.
  91. @anonymous
    This is the words of the Zionist troll 'anon' that I am quoting to show that he is a Zionist imposter. Why don't you read carefully. Please open the link and read his comments to see that he cannot be trusted. These are 'anon' words, a Zionist troll.


    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/interrogating-the-qatar-rift/#comments

    Sorry: I did not read the entire quote within {…..}.

    My apologies.

    Read More
  92. @nebulafox
    >So why don’t they just give it up and let the Gazans take care of their own business?

    As I said before: because they are stuck with it. Nobody else wants it, especially not the Egyptians, considering all the weapons and potential radicals that could flow into Egypt if they took it. Israel would probably be quite happy to forget that the place exists. (That's before we get to the disease, the drugs, etc.) But left unchecked, all the unpleasant things festering in Gaza can spill across the border. So, the best Israel can do is keep a lid on the place to prevent Gaza's ills from spilling over, do the ritualistic punishment of Hamas when attacked, and otherwise keep their distance.

    Again: it is like the Kowloon Walled City, which neither the British nor the Chinese wanted responsibility for and thus suffered from a gray legal status. Only far more massive, and far more dangerous. Instead of the Triads emerging to take some semblance of authority, you have Hamas.

    >Why do the Gazans have to enigrate anywhere?

    Well, that would probably be the most practical way to improve their lives and bring some sort of end to their suffering, considering that a lot of Gaza's problems stem from massive overcrowding.

    Gaza is good p.r for the cause and it is a well fortified position for attacking israel.has a civilian population to prevent an all out bombing campaign.
    There is one problem though.it has no sea walls to stop rising seas.
    any day now all will be released.from the west to the east.

    Read More
  93. @DaveE
    Most of the land in Saudi Arabia is desert, absolutely worthless and too far from the coast(s) to be arable by desalination plants.

    MAYBE, just maybe SA wants Qatar because it sits on decent land, by the coast, with a great port or two and decent roads. Beats starting from scratch somewhere else to "keep an eye" on Iran across the bay.

    Same reason SA wants Yemen and Israel is always trying to take..... well....... everything.

    And yes, you might as well think of SA as Israel South, a huge refuge for the Rothshild mafia and a few figurehead paid-off Arab tyrants to keep up appearances. And a LOT of oil. I'm sure that had nothing to do with why the Rothschilds have such a major presence there.

    The only thing royal about the Saudi "royals" is that it's a royal scam....... created in about 1930 by the same Brits who created Israel.

    I'm sure SA has big plans for all their new weapons (courtesy of Trump) in Qatar

    “created in about 1930 by the same Brits who created Israel.” No. Created by the predecessor to the CIA in order to keep out the Hashemites who were backed by Britain.

    Read More
  94. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @anon

    "What do Gabon and Senegal care about the far away middle east ?
     
    "

    What do Indonesia and Malaysia care about the even further away middle east ?


     US doesn’t want to grow stronger. The US wants to help Israel expand
     
    Israeli expansion since 1948 : 2500 square miles.
    Indonesian expansion since 1963: 130,000 square miles.
    Moroccan expansion since 1981 : 103,000 square miles
    Russian expansion since 2012 : 14,000 square miles.

    Start comparing Israel to Indonesia or Morocco after USA has given them 120+++ Billions dollars and numerous anti American concessions on trade and has shared intelligence with those nations.
    Start comparing that little shitty country who acts and survives like a parasite on USA and also partly on France/Germany after US has saved Indonesia or Morocco from boycott , divestment, media criticism, winked at nuclear theft and has saved them from UN sanctions or arms embargo.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    You make my case for me. Thank you sir. Indonesia , Israel and Morocco all get US aid. However Israel does the least killing.

    Indonesian occupation of Papua 500,000+ Papuans killed.
    Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara 40,000+ Western Saharans killed
    Entirety of Israel Palestinian conflict 23,000 Palestinians killed.

    US aid to Indonesia and Morocco funds far more killing !!!!!!
  95. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @anon
    Start comparing Israel to Indonesia or Morocco after USA has given them 120+++ Billions dollars and numerous anti American concessions on trade and has shared intelligence with those nations.
    Start comparing that little shitty country who acts and survives like a parasite on USA and also partly on France/Germany after US has saved Indonesia or Morocco from boycott , divestment, media criticism, winked at nuclear theft and has saved them from UN sanctions or arms embargo.

    You make my case for me. Thank you sir. Indonesia , Israel and Morocco all get US aid. However Israel does the least killing.

    Indonesian occupation of Papua 500,000+ Papuans killed.
    Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara 40,000+ Western Saharans killed
    Entirety of Israel Palestinian conflict 23,000 Palestinians killed.

    US aid to Indonesia and Morocco funds far more killing !!!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    How many has Israel killed in Iraq and how many are they killing now in Syria working through the proxy and vassals? It was Israel that is responsible for Iraq war, Syria war and for future war with Iran. The late comers ( Saudi Turkey ) to the game are just -late comers - to save their skins.

    The entire Iraq sanctions was manufactured and imposed by Israel. Just like now behind the screen, Israel does impose various ways and means through US and EU to sanction Iran.

  96. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @anon
    You make my case for me. Thank you sir. Indonesia , Israel and Morocco all get US aid. However Israel does the least killing.

    Indonesian occupation of Papua 500,000+ Papuans killed.
    Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara 40,000+ Western Saharans killed
    Entirety of Israel Palestinian conflict 23,000 Palestinians killed.

    US aid to Indonesia and Morocco funds far more killing !!!!!!

    How many has Israel killed in Iraq and how many are they killing now in Syria working through the proxy and vassals? It was Israel that is responsible for Iraq war, Syria war and for future war with Iran. The late comers ( Saudi Turkey ) to the game are just -late comers – to save their skins.

    The entire Iraq sanctions was manufactured and imposed by Israel. Just like now behind the screen, Israel does impose various ways and means through US and EU to sanction Iran.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    How many has Israel killed in Iraq
     
    0 ( Zero )

    how many are they killing now in Syria

     

    Maybe a few dozen over the last 4 years. Syria has killed 500,000 though.

    for future war with Iran
     
    Are you a psychic also . Omg give me some lottery numbers for tomorrow . NY and FL will do .

    The entire Iraq sanctions was manufactured and imposed by Israel. Just like now behind the screen, Israel does impose various ways and means through US and EU to sanction Iran.
     
    I see unfounded conspiracy theories , paranoia , jealousy , depression . Please see an {{{ Eskimo/Canadian Psychologist }}} to work through your problems. Report back on your progress .
  97. @anonymous
    You are really a dummy and I am not going to be engaged with ignorant people. I know what I am saying idiot. You have no knowledge of the middle east because youwesterners are ignorant beyond repair. Get history 101 before exposing yourself further.

    Listen, no need for you to get hysterical.

    You presented anon’s trolling in a careless/poor manner, and so it seemed to several people that his BS was, in fact, your own.

    That is the reason I called you a troll. For that I’m sorry.

    Take a chill pill & next time improve the way you present your info.

    Read More
  98. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @anon
    How many has Israel killed in Iraq and how many are they killing now in Syria working through the proxy and vassals? It was Israel that is responsible for Iraq war, Syria war and for future war with Iran. The late comers ( Saudi Turkey ) to the game are just -late comers - to save their skins.

    The entire Iraq sanctions was manufactured and imposed by Israel. Just like now behind the screen, Israel does impose various ways and means through US and EU to sanction Iran.

    How many has Israel killed in Iraq

    0 ( Zero )

    how many are they killing now in Syria

    Maybe a few dozen over the last 4 years. Syria has killed 500,000 though.

    for future war with Iran

    Are you a psychic also . Omg give me some lottery numbers for tomorrow . NY and FL will do .

    The entire Iraq sanctions was manufactured and imposed by Israel. Just like now behind the screen, Israel does impose various ways and means through US and EU to sanction Iran.

    I see unfounded conspiracy theories , paranoia , jealousy , depression . Please see an {{{ Eskimo/Canadian Psychologist }}} to work through your problems. Report back on your progress .

    Read More
    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @MEexpert
    Is this a one man stand up dialogue between "anon" and "anon?"
    , @anon
    How will you be enlightened ? How will you find the reality behind the slow motion car wreck that seems to be heading to abyss with passengers on board who are trying to gain control of a wheel managed by psychopathic robots remotely ?

    Learn, talk, read and reach out for one to one meetings with these following psycho-


    Kaplan
    Kristol
    Kruthammer
    Richard Perle
    Wolfowitz
    Wrumser
    Kagan
    Sanger
    Judith Miller
    Sharon
    Netanyahu
    Defense minister
    Foreign Minister of Israel

    and check with Thomas Friedman who gloated that this was would not have been possible without the 25 Zio cons
  99. @nebulafox
    But the thing is that Israel doesn't *want* the Gaza Strip. Why would they? It isn't the West Bank. It has no value. You'd have to be utterly insane to want settle there-not even the hardiest Russian migrant would volunteer for that one.

    Gaza is the least valuable piece of real estate on Earth, or at least one of them. Total economic drain on anybody who would annex it, brimming with weapons, militants, drugs, social ills of all kinds, it is completely ungovernable in the sense of anything other than Hamas executing arbitrary street authority, etc. It is a lethal, Islamist, far more dysfunctional modern version of the Kowloon Walled City, with every proximate government authority avoiding it as much as they can. A "free, independent Gaza Strip", assuming such a thing could coherently exist without falling to chaos considering its state, would still be a completely dysfunctional hellhole that would then have open access to spread its problems Egypt to Israel. Barring a more permanent solution, somebody has to quarantine it.

    If Egypt were willing to take Gaza off their hands, the Israelis would happily give it to them in a heartbeat, but the Egyptians aren't that stupid and would (however privately) tell the Israelis to screw off if they proposed such a thing. The rest of the world generally doesn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole, quite justifiably, and for all the open borders insanity of the Europeans, there are no current plans to let tens of thousands of Gazans emigrate abroad, thus actually doing something practical to ease Gaza's endless woes. So, for the forseeable future, Israel is stuck with it, and the current cycle will continue ad nauseum. I'm far from a kneejerk Israel apologist, but attacking them on this specific issue is unfair. If the leftists shrieking about a Free Gaza really cared so much about the fate of Gazans, they'd advocate open emigration for them specifically, instead of just about anybody else from backwards parts of the Islamic World.

    Hmmm… for somebody claiming to be ‘far from a kneejerk Israel apologist’, you sure as hell come across as yet another zionist shill.

    Do tell us, oh nebula, who exactly created the mess in Gaza in the first place, by stealing almost all Palestinian land, terrorizing and ethnic cleansing the Palestinians?
    Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    Israeli historian and author, Ilan Pappe, wrote in his article ‘Israel’s incremental genocide in the Gaza ghetto’, https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-incremental-genocide-gaza-ghetto/13562 :

    The Zionist strategy of branding its brutal policies as an ad hoc response to this or that Palestinian action is as old as the Zionist presence in Palestine itself. It was used repeatedly as a justification for implementing the Zionist vision of a future Palestine that has in it very few, if any, native Palestinians.

    The means for achieving this goal changed with the years, but the formula has remained the same: whatever the Zionist vision of a Jewish State might be, it can only materialize without any significant number of Palestinians in it. And nowadays the vision is of an Israel stretching over almost the whole of historic Palestine where millions of Palestinians still live.

    Ever since June 1967, Israel searched for a way to keep the territories it occupied that year without incorporating their indigenous Palestinian population into its rights-bearing citizenry. All the while it participated in a “peace process” charade to cover up or buy time for its unilateral colonization policies on the ground.

    With the decades, Israel differentiated between areas it wished to control directly and those it would manage indirectly, with the aim in the long run of downsizing the Palestinian population to a minimum with, among other means, ethnic cleansing and economic and geographic strangulation.

    The geopolitical location of the West Bank creates the impression in Israel, at least, that it is possible to achieve this without anticipating a third uprising or too much international condemnation.

    The Gaza Strip, due to its unique geopolitical location, did not lend itself that easily to such a strategy. Ever since 1994, and even more so when Ariel Sharon came to power as prime minister in the early 2000s, the strategy there was to ghettoize Gaza and somehow hope that the people there — 1.8 million as of today — would be dropped into eternal oblivion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    stealing almost all Palestinian land
     
    That would be the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan , Sir.
    Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan occupies 78% of Palestine.

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/2017/06/12/ice-iraqi-immigrants-detroit-criminal/389365001/

    Get a load of this . Trump is deporting 90 Iraqi Christians (Chaldeans) back to Iraq while thousands of Muslim Somali "refugees" from 99.9999999 % Muslim Somalia get to stay. The Somalians were being so persecuted in Somalia that most of them take a vacation back to Somalia every year. And read this quote from the article from an Iraqi Christian :


    "We don't want them sent back to Iraq because of the Genocide of Christians"
     
    , @nebulafox
    >Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    And your view of the conflict is sentiment masquerading as analysis. Israel stole their land a long time ago. But guess what? It doesn't *matter* who is right and who is wrong in geopolitics. It hasn't mattered for the several other groups in modern history (Greeks, Turks, Germans, Indochinese) who have been expelled from their lands, and it won't start mattering now. Who has power is what matters.

    Israel has never been in a more superior position geopolitically, now that they've more or less decoupled the Palestinian issue from relations with their neighbors and have the important players in the non-Western world (Russia, China, India) on their side on the issue of carrying out "national sovereignty", in practice if not in theory. De jure support of a two-state solution will always lose out for these guys in practice if Israel can instead frame the occupation as their determination to handle "national security" as they see fit over the crowing of Western bien-pensant busybodies, especially if the ideological Islam factor comes in. This isn't 1973 anymore, on many levels-Israel is a much different nation demographically/psychologically (far less "European", much more Russian and Middle Eastern and Orthodox), their standing in the world is much different, the nature of the conflict is much different, their enemies are different. Given all this, how do you practically suggest that we trick Israel into forgetting that they've "won" their conflict and treating it like it were some stalemate instead? I want specific strategic moves, not platitudes based off of what some UN bureaucrat wrote in New York. Because that is what it will take to get them to exchange lands they already control for lands they... also already control.

    The conflict has hardened to the point over the decades where the conventional stated solution is a fantasy. It was a mistake on Washington's part to let it degenerate like this over. Mea culpa. Now, let's start dealing with the reality of 2017. They've won in pretty much every conventional sense you can think of. And last time I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands they control for lands they also already control in exchange, least of all after decades of hardening mutual hatred and distrust. I can't recall a historical precedent for that. Having gotten past these illusions, let's start looking at possible steps that might actually help practically solve the conflict-and the lives of people there-rather than having wet dreams based off of international law somehow translating into a basis in reality.

  100. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @L.K
    Hmmm... for somebody claiming to be 'far from a kneejerk Israel apologist', you sure as hell come across as yet another zionist shill.

    Do tell us, oh nebula, who exactly created the mess in Gaza in the first place, by stealing almost all Palestinian land, terrorizing and ethnic cleansing the Palestinians?
    Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    Israeli historian and author, Ilan Pappe, wrote in his article 'Israel’s incremental genocide in the Gaza ghetto', https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-incremental-genocide-gaza-ghetto/13562 :

    The Zionist strategy of branding its brutal policies as an ad hoc response to this or that Palestinian action is as old as the Zionist presence in Palestine itself. It was used repeatedly as a justification for implementing the Zionist vision of a future Palestine that has in it very few, if any, native Palestinians.

    The means for achieving this goal changed with the years, but the formula has remained the same: whatever the Zionist vision of a Jewish State might be, it can only materialize without any significant number of Palestinians in it. And nowadays the vision is of an Israel stretching over almost the whole of historic Palestine where millions of Palestinians still live.
    ...
    Ever since June 1967, Israel searched for a way to keep the territories it occupied that year without incorporating their indigenous Palestinian population into its rights-bearing citizenry. All the while it participated in a “peace process” charade to cover up or buy time for its unilateral colonization policies on the ground.

    With the decades, Israel differentiated between areas it wished to control directly and those it would manage indirectly, with the aim in the long run of downsizing the Palestinian population to a minimum with, among other means, ethnic cleansing and economic and geographic strangulation.

    The geopolitical location of the West Bank creates the impression in Israel, at least, that it is possible to achieve this without anticipating a third uprising or too much international condemnation.

    The Gaza Strip, due to its unique geopolitical location, did not lend itself that easily to such a strategy. Ever since 1994, and even more so when Ariel Sharon came to power as prime minister in the early 2000s, the strategy there was to ghettoize Gaza and somehow hope that the people there — 1.8 million as of today — would be dropped into eternal oblivion.
     

    stealing almost all Palestinian land

    That would be the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan , Sir.
    Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan occupies 78% of Palestine.

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/2017/06/12/ice-iraqi-immigrants-detroit-criminal/389365001/

    Get a load of this . Trump is deporting 90 Iraqi Christians (Chaldeans) back to Iraq while thousands of Muslim Somali “refugees” from 99.9999999 % Muslim Somalia get to stay. The Somalians were being so persecuted in Somalia that most of them take a vacation back to Somalia every year. And read this quote from the article from an Iraqi Christian :

    “We don’t want them sent back to Iraq because of the Genocide of Christians”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan occupies 78% of Palestine.
     
    You keep on asserting this as if this is fact. The problem is you haven't presented any evidence that the people in Jordan, including ethnic Palestinians consider them to be a foreign occupier. Again, an academic/objective poll or source would be nice. Jordan is practically the only country that has seriously tried to integrate Palestinian refugees into its nation and people.

    Secondly, the king married a Palestinian woman and the heir to the throne is half Palestinian. The Hashemite crown will be a 50% Palestinian enterprise in the next generation - and possibly majority if the prince marries a Palestinian. Good luck trying to convince people that historic Palestine is occupied by a half-Palestinian king.

    Peace.

  101. @anon
    It is part of Ukraine . And the point stands. Why does Russia, the largest land mass in the world need to expand its territory ? They have more than enough space for their current population . Their birth rate is in the toilet at maybe 1.1 and they have a low life expectancy coupled with rampant alcoholism so they will not need extra land in the future. What the deal here ?

    Russia didn’t absorb Crimea back into Russia in order to expand its land mass.
    The US unleashed a color revolution and a coup aimed at installing a Ukrainian regime hostile to Russia.
    The US intended to take Russia’s only warm water naval base and to occupy it with US/NATO ships. Russia saw what was happening and saved its base.
    If you look into it, you will find that the local Crimeans overwhelmingly support Krim returning to Russia, and they are more Russian than the Russians.

    Read More
  102. @anon

    How many has Israel killed in Iraq
     
    0 ( Zero )

    how many are they killing now in Syria

     

    Maybe a few dozen over the last 4 years. Syria has killed 500,000 though.

    for future war with Iran
     
    Are you a psychic also . Omg give me some lottery numbers for tomorrow . NY and FL will do .

    The entire Iraq sanctions was manufactured and imposed by Israel. Just like now behind the screen, Israel does impose various ways and means through US and EU to sanction Iran.
     
    I see unfounded conspiracy theories , paranoia , jealousy , depression . Please see an {{{ Eskimo/Canadian Psychologist }}} to work through your problems. Report back on your progress .

    Is this a one man stand up dialogue between “anon” and “anon?”

    Read More
    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
    "Who's on first?"
    , @Avery
    It is really strange for people to post under various permutations of 'anonymous/anon/Anon....'.

    And makes it very difficult for other posters to know who is who, as far as exchanging comments and viewpoints.

    Why not pick a unique handle and stick to it.
    What is the point of picking 'anon' as a handle?
    Everybody, except columnists who also comment, is anonymous by default. UNZ.com doesn't even require a valid email.

    So why make it difficult for everybody.

  103. @L.K
    Hmmm... for somebody claiming to be 'far from a kneejerk Israel apologist', you sure as hell come across as yet another zionist shill.

    Do tell us, oh nebula, who exactly created the mess in Gaza in the first place, by stealing almost all Palestinian land, terrorizing and ethnic cleansing the Palestinians?
    Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    Israeli historian and author, Ilan Pappe, wrote in his article 'Israel’s incremental genocide in the Gaza ghetto', https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-incremental-genocide-gaza-ghetto/13562 :

    The Zionist strategy of branding its brutal policies as an ad hoc response to this or that Palestinian action is as old as the Zionist presence in Palestine itself. It was used repeatedly as a justification for implementing the Zionist vision of a future Palestine that has in it very few, if any, native Palestinians.

    The means for achieving this goal changed with the years, but the formula has remained the same: whatever the Zionist vision of a Jewish State might be, it can only materialize without any significant number of Palestinians in it. And nowadays the vision is of an Israel stretching over almost the whole of historic Palestine where millions of Palestinians still live.
    ...
    Ever since June 1967, Israel searched for a way to keep the territories it occupied that year without incorporating their indigenous Palestinian population into its rights-bearing citizenry. All the while it participated in a “peace process” charade to cover up or buy time for its unilateral colonization policies on the ground.

    With the decades, Israel differentiated between areas it wished to control directly and those it would manage indirectly, with the aim in the long run of downsizing the Palestinian population to a minimum with, among other means, ethnic cleansing and economic and geographic strangulation.

    The geopolitical location of the West Bank creates the impression in Israel, at least, that it is possible to achieve this without anticipating a third uprising or too much international condemnation.

    The Gaza Strip, due to its unique geopolitical location, did not lend itself that easily to such a strategy. Ever since 1994, and even more so when Ariel Sharon came to power as prime minister in the early 2000s, the strategy there was to ghettoize Gaza and somehow hope that the people there — 1.8 million as of today — would be dropped into eternal oblivion.
     

    >Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    And your view of the conflict is sentiment masquerading as analysis. Israel stole their land a long time ago. But guess what? It doesn’t *matter* who is right and who is wrong in geopolitics. It hasn’t mattered for the several other groups in modern history (Greeks, Turks, Germans, Indochinese) who have been expelled from their lands, and it won’t start mattering now. Who has power is what matters.

    Israel has never been in a more superior position geopolitically, now that they’ve more or less decoupled the Palestinian issue from relations with their neighbors and have the important players in the non-Western world (Russia, China, India) on their side on the issue of carrying out “national sovereignty”, in practice if not in theory. De jure support of a two-state solution will always lose out for these guys in practice if Israel can instead frame the occupation as their determination to handle “national security” as they see fit over the crowing of Western bien-pensant busybodies, especially if the ideological Islam factor comes in. This isn’t 1973 anymore, on many levels-Israel is a much different nation demographically/psychologically (far less “European”, much more Russian and Middle Eastern and Orthodox), their standing in the world is much different, the nature of the conflict is much different, their enemies are different. Given all this, how do you practically suggest that we trick Israel into forgetting that they’ve “won” their conflict and treating it like it were some stalemate instead? I want specific strategic moves, not platitudes based off of what some UN bureaucrat wrote in New York. Because that is what it will take to get them to exchange lands they already control for lands they… also already control.

    The conflict has hardened to the point over the decades where the conventional stated solution is a fantasy. It was a mistake on Washington’s part to let it degenerate like this over. Mea culpa. Now, let’s start dealing with the reality of 2017. They’ve won in pretty much every conventional sense you can think of. And last time I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands they control for lands they also already control in exchange, least of all after decades of hardening mutual hatred and distrust. I can’t recall a historical precedent for that. Having gotten past these illusions, let’s start looking at possible steps that might actually help practically solve the conflict-and the lives of people there-rather than having wet dreams based off of international law somehow translating into a basis in reality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Good points; they are on that land, have a fairly powerful military and nukes. On top of that they have the backing of at least three major world powers.

    There is one stalemate in that they can't invade other lands like they used to before as they found out in Lebanon 2006. So they can't really expand any further other than the West Bank.
    I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands
    I believe Indonesia did with East Timor - they finally figured it just wasn't worth the trouble. Sudan also did with the South.

    Peace.

    , @Randal

    And last time I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands they control for lands they also already control in exchange, least of all after decades of hardening mutual hatred and distrust. I can't recall a historical precedent for that.
     
    That's pretty much (barring all the distinctions without relevant and important differences) what the Brits did in Ireland after the Easter Rising.

    That rebellion was defeated, much as the Israelis defeated open Arab warfare against them, but the victory in both cases merely resulted in a radicalising of opinion against the victors and a drawn out terrorism campaign. The British could (given sufficiently supportive British popular opinion - which wasn't initially forthcoming but probably would have been if the IRA had extended its terrorism to the mainland) have done what the Israelis did and brutally suppressed Irish nationalist resistance long term, but chose not to.
  104. @anon

    stealing almost all Palestinian land
     
    That would be the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan , Sir.
    Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan occupies 78% of Palestine.

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/2017/06/12/ice-iraqi-immigrants-detroit-criminal/389365001/

    Get a load of this . Trump is deporting 90 Iraqi Christians (Chaldeans) back to Iraq while thousands of Muslim Somali "refugees" from 99.9999999 % Muslim Somalia get to stay. The Somalians were being so persecuted in Somalia that most of them take a vacation back to Somalia every year. And read this quote from the article from an Iraqi Christian :


    "We don't want them sent back to Iraq because of the Genocide of Christians"
     

    Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan occupies 78% of Palestine.

    You keep on asserting this as if this is fact. The problem is you haven’t presented any evidence that the people in Jordan, including ethnic Palestinians consider them to be a foreign occupier. Again, an academic/objective poll or source would be nice. Jordan is practically the only country that has seriously tried to integrate Palestinian refugees into its nation and people.

    Secondly, the king married a Palestinian woman and the heir to the throne is half Palestinian. The Hashemite crown will be a 50% Palestinian enterprise in the next generation – and possibly majority if the prince marries a Palestinian. Good luck trying to convince people that historic Palestine is occupied by a half-Palestinian king.

    Peace.

    Read More
  105. @MEexpert
    Is this a one man stand up dialogue between "anon" and "anon?"

    “Who’s on first?”

    Read More
    • LOL: MEexpert
    • Replies: @MEexpert

    “Who’s on first?”
     
    anon. Sorry he is on second. Nope the third.
  106. @MEexpert
    Is this a one man stand up dialogue between "anon" and "anon?"

    It is really strange for people to post under various permutations of ‘anonymous/anon/Anon….’.

    And makes it very difficult for other posters to know who is who, as far as exchanging comments and viewpoints.

    Why not pick a unique handle and stick to it.
    What is the point of picking ‘anon’ as a handle?
    Everybody, except columnists who also comment, is anonymous by default. UNZ.com doesn’t even require a valid email.

    So why make it difficult for everybody.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    I agree. The anon variations are the one thing about The Unz Review I would want changed to requiring a single handle be used. Here we often see one anon arguing with another anon and it serves no one other than those who seek to avoid some accountability for their comments.
  107. @nebulafox
    >Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    And your view of the conflict is sentiment masquerading as analysis. Israel stole their land a long time ago. But guess what? It doesn't *matter* who is right and who is wrong in geopolitics. It hasn't mattered for the several other groups in modern history (Greeks, Turks, Germans, Indochinese) who have been expelled from their lands, and it won't start mattering now. Who has power is what matters.

    Israel has never been in a more superior position geopolitically, now that they've more or less decoupled the Palestinian issue from relations with their neighbors and have the important players in the non-Western world (Russia, China, India) on their side on the issue of carrying out "national sovereignty", in practice if not in theory. De jure support of a two-state solution will always lose out for these guys in practice if Israel can instead frame the occupation as their determination to handle "national security" as they see fit over the crowing of Western bien-pensant busybodies, especially if the ideological Islam factor comes in. This isn't 1973 anymore, on many levels-Israel is a much different nation demographically/psychologically (far less "European", much more Russian and Middle Eastern and Orthodox), their standing in the world is much different, the nature of the conflict is much different, their enemies are different. Given all this, how do you practically suggest that we trick Israel into forgetting that they've "won" their conflict and treating it like it were some stalemate instead? I want specific strategic moves, not platitudes based off of what some UN bureaucrat wrote in New York. Because that is what it will take to get them to exchange lands they already control for lands they... also already control.

    The conflict has hardened to the point over the decades where the conventional stated solution is a fantasy. It was a mistake on Washington's part to let it degenerate like this over. Mea culpa. Now, let's start dealing with the reality of 2017. They've won in pretty much every conventional sense you can think of. And last time I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands they control for lands they also already control in exchange, least of all after decades of hardening mutual hatred and distrust. I can't recall a historical precedent for that. Having gotten past these illusions, let's start looking at possible steps that might actually help practically solve the conflict-and the lives of people there-rather than having wet dreams based off of international law somehow translating into a basis in reality.

    Good points; they are on that land, have a fairly powerful military and nukes. On top of that they have the backing of at least three major world powers.

    There is one stalemate in that they can’t invade other lands like they used to before as they found out in Lebanon 2006. So they can’t really expand any further other than the West Bank.
    I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands
    I believe Indonesia did with East Timor – they finally figured it just wasn’t worth the trouble. Sudan also did with the South.

    Peace.

    Read More
  108. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @anon

    How many has Israel killed in Iraq
     
    0 ( Zero )

    how many are they killing now in Syria

     

    Maybe a few dozen over the last 4 years. Syria has killed 500,000 though.

    for future war with Iran
     
    Are you a psychic also . Omg give me some lottery numbers for tomorrow . NY and FL will do .

    The entire Iraq sanctions was manufactured and imposed by Israel. Just like now behind the screen, Israel does impose various ways and means through US and EU to sanction Iran.
     
    I see unfounded conspiracy theories , paranoia , jealousy , depression . Please see an {{{ Eskimo/Canadian Psychologist }}} to work through your problems. Report back on your progress .

    How will you be enlightened ? How will you find the reality behind the slow motion car wreck that seems to be heading to abyss with passengers on board who are trying to gain control of a wheel managed by psychopathic robots remotely ?

    Learn, talk, read and reach out for one to one meetings with these following psycho-

    Kaplan
    Kristol
    Kruthammer
    Richard Perle
    Wolfowitz
    Wrumser
    Kagan
    Sanger
    Judith Miller
    Sharon
    Netanyahu
    Defense minister
    Foreign Minister of Israel

    and check with Thomas Friedman who gloated that this was would not have been possible without the 25 Zio cons

    Read More
  109. @nebulafox
    >Your very description of the situation in Gaza is nothing short of obfuscation.

    And your view of the conflict is sentiment masquerading as analysis. Israel stole their land a long time ago. But guess what? It doesn't *matter* who is right and who is wrong in geopolitics. It hasn't mattered for the several other groups in modern history (Greeks, Turks, Germans, Indochinese) who have been expelled from their lands, and it won't start mattering now. Who has power is what matters.

    Israel has never been in a more superior position geopolitically, now that they've more or less decoupled the Palestinian issue from relations with their neighbors and have the important players in the non-Western world (Russia, China, India) on their side on the issue of carrying out "national sovereignty", in practice if not in theory. De jure support of a two-state solution will always lose out for these guys in practice if Israel can instead frame the occupation as their determination to handle "national security" as they see fit over the crowing of Western bien-pensant busybodies, especially if the ideological Islam factor comes in. This isn't 1973 anymore, on many levels-Israel is a much different nation demographically/psychologically (far less "European", much more Russian and Middle Eastern and Orthodox), their standing in the world is much different, the nature of the conflict is much different, their enemies are different. Given all this, how do you practically suggest that we trick Israel into forgetting that they've "won" their conflict and treating it like it were some stalemate instead? I want specific strategic moves, not platitudes based off of what some UN bureaucrat wrote in New York. Because that is what it will take to get them to exchange lands they already control for lands they... also already control.

    The conflict has hardened to the point over the decades where the conventional stated solution is a fantasy. It was a mistake on Washington's part to let it degenerate like this over. Mea culpa. Now, let's start dealing with the reality of 2017. They've won in pretty much every conventional sense you can think of. And last time I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands they control for lands they also already control in exchange, least of all after decades of hardening mutual hatred and distrust. I can't recall a historical precedent for that. Having gotten past these illusions, let's start looking at possible steps that might actually help practically solve the conflict-and the lives of people there-rather than having wet dreams based off of international law somehow translating into a basis in reality.

    And last time I checked, nobody who wins wars typically gives up lands they control for lands they also already control in exchange, least of all after decades of hardening mutual hatred and distrust. I can’t recall a historical precedent for that.

    That’s pretty much (barring all the distinctions without relevant and important differences) what the Brits did in Ireland after the Easter Rising.

    That rebellion was defeated, much as the Israelis defeated open Arab warfare against them, but the victory in both cases merely resulted in a radicalising of opinion against the victors and a drawn out terrorism campaign. The British could (given sufficiently supportive British popular opinion – which wasn’t initially forthcoming but probably would have been if the IRA had extended its terrorism to the mainland) have done what the Israelis did and brutally suppressed Irish nationalist resistance long term, but chose not to.

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  110. @jilles dykstra
    Israel is the SS of the concentration camp Gaza

    Israel is the SS of the concentration camp Gaza

    1. Israel pulled out of Gaza more than 10 years ago.

    2. Egypt ditched Gaza long ago – they don’t want anything to do with this trouble spot.

    3. The population of Gaza more than quintupled from 1970 to 2014, from 340,000 to 1,820,000, according to U.S. Census (!) figures.

    If you want to protest human rights abuses, find a country that really engages in them, e.g. North Korea (death and labor camps), Mauritania (actual chattel slavery), Sudan (ditto), most of the rest of Black Africa, etc. Of course, our MSM don’t write much about those hellholes because they don’t have good five-star hotels.

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  111. @Avery
    It is really strange for people to post under various permutations of 'anonymous/anon/Anon....'.

    And makes it very difficult for other posters to know who is who, as far as exchanging comments and viewpoints.

    Why not pick a unique handle and stick to it.
    What is the point of picking 'anon' as a handle?
    Everybody, except columnists who also comment, is anonymous by default. UNZ.com doesn't even require a valid email.

    So why make it difficult for everybody.

    I agree. The anon variations are the one thing about The Unz Review I would want changed to requiring a single handle be used. Here we often see one anon arguing with another anon and it serves no one other than those who seek to avoid some accountability for their comments.

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  112. @Talha
    "Who's on first?"

    “Who’s on first?”

    anon. Sorry he is on second. Nope the third.

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  113. @MEexpert

    “Who’s on first?”
     
    anon. Sorry he is on second. Nope the third.

    I don’t know…

    Third base!

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  114. @Eagle Eye

    Israel is the SS of the concentration camp Gaza
     
    1. Israel pulled out of Gaza more than 10 years ago.

    2. Egypt ditched Gaza long ago - they don't want anything to do with this trouble spot.

    3. The population of Gaza more than quintupled from 1970 to 2014, from 340,000 to 1,820,000, according to U.S. Census (!) figures.

    If you want to protest human rights abuses, find a country that really engages in them, e.g. North Korea (death and labor camps), Mauritania (actual chattel slavery), Sudan (ditto), most of the rest of Black Africa, etc. Of course, our MSM don't write much about those hellholes because they don't have good five-star hotels.

    Oh my God, you are so full of shit.

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  115. This is part of a pattern. Ramp up rhetoric against an enemy, bind them to you and sell them lots of weapons, then walk away. So China, v bad, N Korea v scary, sell weapons to S Korea, Japan, Vietnam and Australia, threaten to selll to Taiwan. Then cut a deal, walk away from South China Sea and Taiwan while China takes on N. Korea problem. Meanwhile cut trade deals with China on LNG and financial services, support One Belt One Road Initiative and get promise of funding for US infrastructure. Equally, Russia v bad, but might disband NATO unless Europeans buy weapons. Plan (pending) to cut deal with Russia on sanctions but they sort Syria, walk out of Europe.Now Saudi and gulf states. Ramp up rhetoric on Iran, sell weapons to Saudi and gulf states, create common interest with Israel and Sunnis. Agree to help sell Aramco so long as money recycled via Blackstone into US infrastructure. Then cut deal with Iran, drop sanctions in return for acknowledging Israel right to exist and defunding terrorists. Qatar is part of that. Then get long desired Israel peace deal and walk away from Middle East. Bait and switch, then deal. All part of a pattern.

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    • Replies: @MEexpert

    Then cut deal with Iran, drop sanctions in return for acknowledging Israel right to exist and defunding terrorists.
     
    First tell me which terrorists is Iran funding? Caution; if you are going to use Hezbollah as an example, forget it. Hezbollah has never operated outside Lebanon and their quarrel is with Israel. They are two warring parties. Both Hezbollah and Hamas are resistance movements by anybody's definition except Israel's and by extension the US'. Iran does not fund Hamas. They are Qatar's clients. Because they both refuse to rollover and play dead, Israel and her pet poodle call them terrorists.
  116. @mcohen
    Thanks for that....2015.a lot has happened including the opening up of gas reserves on the Mediterranean.both turkey and Qatar have us airbases so that is leverage.regardless it Is one thing building a pipeline and another keeping it secure.Qatar has been trying to build up leverage on Israel via the Palestinians but that has come to and end with trumps push for peace.ideally peace does not suit qatars plans so gaza could explode soon.hence qatars flirtation with iran hoping to stir up trouble in s.lebanon via hezb.
    Al thani ran from Syria.maybe they can send him to s.lebanon for some character building

    nothing unusual here Same Hasabara. same tissue of distortions

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  117. @Mark T
    This is part of a pattern. Ramp up rhetoric against an enemy, bind them to you and sell them lots of weapons, then walk away. So China, v bad, N Korea v scary, sell weapons to S Korea, Japan, Vietnam and Australia, threaten to selll to Taiwan. Then cut a deal, walk away from South China Sea and Taiwan while China takes on N. Korea problem. Meanwhile cut trade deals with China on LNG and financial services, support One Belt One Road Initiative and get promise of funding for US infrastructure. Equally, Russia v bad, but might disband NATO unless Europeans buy weapons. Plan (pending) to cut deal with Russia on sanctions but they sort Syria, walk out of Europe.Now Saudi and gulf states. Ramp up rhetoric on Iran, sell weapons to Saudi and gulf states, create common interest with Israel and Sunnis. Agree to help sell Aramco so long as money recycled via Blackstone into US infrastructure. Then cut deal with Iran, drop sanctions in return for acknowledging Israel right to exist and defunding terrorists. Qatar is part of that. Then get long desired Israel peace deal and walk away from Middle East. Bait and switch, then deal. All part of a pattern.

    Then cut deal with Iran, drop sanctions in return for acknowledging Israel right to exist and defunding terrorists.

    First tell me which terrorists is Iran funding? Caution; if you are going to use Hezbollah as an example, forget it. Hezbollah has never operated outside Lebanon and their quarrel is with Israel. They are two warring parties. Both Hezbollah and Hamas are resistance movements by anybody’s definition except Israel’s and by extension the US’. Iran does not fund Hamas. They are Qatar’s clients. Because they both refuse to rollover and play dead, Israel and her pet poodle call them terrorists.

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  118. “Besides, was there ever a time with the American Administration’s policies in the Middle-East made any rational sense at all?” There, fixed that for ya.

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  119. […] Team Two: Russia, Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, Turkey, Qatar and perhaps […]

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