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Saker rant about a stolen Europe

My latest column about Europe has elicited a lot of reactions, more than I expected, and I feel that I have to follow up by answering some of the comments made and by simply sharing with you not so much my thoughts as my feelings about Europe and her plight. Careful here, this will be a angry rant, written with sadness and despair in my heart, and with no regard whatsoever for good manners or political correctness (or spelling and grammar, for that matter)

If you offend easily, stop reading now. Same thing if you expect a carefully written analysis. This will be a *rant*.

You have been warned!

For those who might not already know this, I was born in Switzerland in 1963 and, as most your Swiss people do, I traveled all over Europe for many years. My favorite destinations were mostly in the South: Greece (Athens, Aegina, Aghia Marina), Spain (Gran Canaria, Andalusia, Madrid), Italy (Ansedonia, Rome, Milan, Aosta), France (Creuse, Corrèze, Vercors), but also in the *real* “Central Europe” of Switzerland (Berner Oberland, Graubunden, Val Poschiavo), Germany (Bavaria), Holland (Amsterdam, the Hague) and Belgium (Brugge). I even has some wonderful trips to Ireland (Dublin, Donegall, Connemara) and I loved it all. I loved the languages (I speak Spanish, German, French, Italian), I loved the beautiful diversity of people, the music, the food, the landscapes, the accents and beautiful buildings as witnesses of the past reaching as far as antiquity – all these were joys to my heart and food for my mind. I absolutely LOVE Europe, and not only because by ethnicity I am half-European myself (my father, who did not raise me, is Dutch) but because most of my life was spent there and no matter what Europe will feel like home to me.

[Sidebar: when I say “Europe” I mean Western Europe, the real Europe, the one which was occupied by NATO, not the eastern part, occupied by the WTO (Warsaw Treaty Organization, it was never called a “Pact” – this is US propaganda), which never was really Europe anyway. No offense to anybody, but for me the notion that Poland or Bulgaria are part of Europe is laughable. And neither are the Balkans for that matter, with the possible exception of Greece. I know, most will disagree and prove me wrong, I don’t care. MY Europe will always be a purely western one, for better or, sometimes, for worse]

But that home was stolen from me.

First, that home was stolen by an EU project which from day one was anti-European. How is the EU anti-European? First and foremost, because it was aimed at unifying a beautifully diverse continent. What does a German and an Italian have in common. Let me tell you: exactly *nothing*. In Switzerland we used to joke that the border with Africa began in Carouge, a southernmost neighborhood of Geneva. If you asked a Swiss German from Zurich, he would say that the border with Africa begin just south of Bern, on the linguistic divide between German and French speaking Swiss. And, please, don’t see that as a sign of anti-Italian or anti-French-speaking Swiss racism – it is not. It was a *joke*, but one which reflected real differences.

Gites du Vercors

The Europe of my youth

There once was a real and viable European (as I said, every time I say “European” I mean “West European”) core: Germany, France, Belgium, Holland and Denmark were fairly close to each other, with France being the odd man out (France is, at the very least, two countries: southern and northern France, glued together by history and language). Switzerland was politically too independent to ever join this “core” as for the UK, it was never European in the least. If anything, the UK was always anti-European and the worst enemy of Europe.

The EU went much further. It added Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal. This was already rather crazy but, I suppose, painfully doable. But then came the deathblow: adding all of the former WTO countries in a suicidal expansion to the East. I don’t feel like discussing what the central and eastern European countries ought to be called, maybe “eastern European” is okay, but they never were in any way part of western Europe. Yes, for political reasons, the Poles, Estonians and Romanians think of themselves as “European”, but just like the Ukies with their ridiculous “Україна – це Європа!” (The Ukraine is Europe) they never were part of real Europe, not the one which used to joke that the European border with Africa beings in Carouge anyway :-)

Europe today

The “New Europe”

The second deathblow to Europe came when the capitalists opened the borders of Europe to cheap immigrant labor for the south. Let me tell you, the first wave of immigrants, mostly Italians, Portuguese and Spaniards, could very easily be integrated. I went to school with roughly 50% of the classroom composed of these three groups. Sure, they each had their own identity, language and customs – but they could really be integrated into the larger society. Then came the Yugolsavs and it was much tougher already. All of them – Serbs, Croats, Albanians from Kosovo – had come from Communist Yugoslavia and while they definitely worked very hard, they never really felt at home in their new country of residence, and neither did the locals see them as their own. But then all hell broke lose with the arrival of the “Arabs” from the Maghreb (northern Africa) who were not all, or even really, “Arabs” but nevermind that, and sub-Saharan (Black) Africans. Can you imagine what it feels like to see *real* Africans in larger and larger numbers all over your home town when you used to joke that the border with Africa was Carouge (I repeat that example because I consider it very telling)? It felt like a plague, even if nobody was willing to admit it.

Now let me immediately get one canard out of the way. The issue of Islam.

French thugs in the past

French street thugs of the past

I submit that none of the Magbrebians or Africans could be really integrated into a profoundly West European society. But, and this is crucial, the Muslims, and here I mean the really religious and pious Muslims, were always respectful of the law and excellent neighbors. I know what I am talking about as I lived right next door to a big mosque myself, for decades, and that I know for a fact that mosque-attending Muslims are extremely courteous (more so than the locals, in fact) and that they are very careful about showing a refined, educated and proper image of Islam in front of non-Muslims. The real plague were the 2nd generation kids who were neither Europeans nor Muslims. Now those, especially the Algerians, accounted for the vast majority of crime and they were truly a horror to put up with: arrogant, loud, uneducated and very aggressive. These Maghrebians typically would mix with 2nd generation Black Africans and form the core of almost all the gangs of criminal thugs roaming around. And none of them, zero, were Muslims in any sense of the word, not religious not cultural. Again, I speak of long and personal experience, so please don’t come tell me that I don’t know Europe or Islam, because I do, very well in fact.

[Sidebar: I cannot speak of Turks/Kurds in Germany simply because I have not spend enough time in these circles and I am not qualified to have an opinion about them]

So my Europe was stolen from me not once, but twice and while I weep over the Europe of my youth, I absolutely loathe the Europe of the European Union. Every time I see Hollande, Stoltenberg or Tusk, my stomach turns and I feel like cursing. They make me absolutely sick. I hate the Europe of Charlie Hebdo, of BHL, of Harlem Desir, the Europe of Conchita Wurst or of Dalia Grybauskaitė (there goes a typical European name, right?).

Modern French thugs

Street thugs in Paris today

London now looks like Karachi, Paris like Ouagadougou, Rome like Târgu-Mures. This is absolutely disgusting, revolting and suicidal. To say so has absolutely nothing to do with racism and only a person totally devoid from any real cultural roots can misinterpret the horror of those who see their cities and cultural roots being smashed by waves of non-integratable immigrants as a form of racism. You don’t believe me?

ORDER IT NOW

Let me tell you this: in France there are a lot of Maghrebians who are now horrified to see their (usually poor) neighborhood being literally run over by Romanian Gypsies while in Switzerland you have more or less integrated ex-Yugoslavs who now watch in horror as their putatively “fellow” ex-Yugoslavs run the cocaine business. How many Swiss citizens do you think you would fine in a Swiss jail? Nobody knows, but my guess is less than 15%.

The worst part of it all is that both the Right and the Left are equally responsible for this state of affairs.

Pompidou

Lionized by Time, of course

Originally, the main impulse to bring immigrants to Europe came from the Right, from the organized corporate managers who wanted cheap labor at any cost. As always, if you look deeper, the force behind the corporations were the banks. It is of no coincidence that in France is all began with Georges Pompidou who, before being President, was a General Manager at N. M. Rothschild & Sons Bank. Pompidou, who came to power following the CIA’s “color revolution” known as “Mai 68″ succeeded a real French patriot, General de Gaulle, who had attempted to de-couple France from her AngloZionst masters and who was subsequently overthrown in a bizarre revolution which already saw Trotskists and CIA agents working hand in hand to achieve regime change in France.

All the French Right cared for was profit, profit and profit. The French workers were superbly unionized, they have achieved remarkable social and labor rights and the French capitalists simply could not turn them into the kind of right-less workforce they needed, so the imported them from abroad.

bhl-et-harlem-desir

Bernard Henri Levi and Harlem Desir

As for the Left, it saw in this influx of immigrants a fantastic political opportunity to achieve the kind of societal change it always wants to achieve: a wholesale destruction of any form of tradition, national identity and religion.

The French Zionists, in particular, saw a fantastic opportunity to weaken the French national identity by branding it as by definition racist. This is how they did it.

President François Mitterrand wanted to split the French Right in order to win the elections, so he personally ordered the main French TV channel to make a long interview with the leader of the National Front, Jean-Marie Le Pen. This interview is what really put the National Front in the spotlight and the tactic worked. The French Right was split and it still is, by the way. The the French Socialists joined forces with the Israel Lobby and created a movement called “Touche pas à mon pote” (don’t touch my pal) headed by a guy called Harlem Desir (I kid you not!). Their mission? To fight the alleged racism of the French people. Sounds familiar? Create a problem and then ‘solve it’ (“Zionism 101″). This operation worked superbly and made any discussion of immigration tantamount to racism.

Harlem-desir

France: from King Clovis to this…

Now that the EU has replaced Europe, the Right and the Left have logically fused into what I call the “Extreme Center” – the same globalist model with, on one hand, wants to eliminate all the borders while, on the other, dismantling all social regulations protecting the working class from exploitation by the Capitalists.

Sorry for this long excursion in the past, but I want you to understand why I am always so angry when I write about today’s “Europe”: I am angry because I remember “yesterday’s Europe” very well, because I saw it killed step by step before my eyes, because I personally lived through every stage of this slow murder and because I absolutely loathe the pseudo-Europe which the Zionists are building on the aches of the old Europe.

A few more comments:

Gladio: yes, I know about Gladio, I remember the bombing in Bologna and the kidnapping of Aldo Moro. Could the latest bombings be a Gladio v2? Yes, absolutely, but this in no way impinges in the fundamental thesis that uncontrolled emigration is a moral threat to Europe and an ideal vector for the penetration by terrorists. Just remember that Daesh is CIA-controlled anyway, and that whether the handlers are in Raqqa or Brussels makes no difference. The Takfiris have always been the CIA’s footsoliders.

The US role: huge. The EU is essentially a US project via the Bilderbergers and the Zionist lobby in Europe. The EU today is run by a comprador elite which is totally subservient to AngloZionist interests. What real Europeans wanted was the “Europe des patries” (the Europe of fatherlands) which de Gaulle advocated. We all know what happened to de Gaulle for daring to oppose the AngloZionists Empire.

Russia: this is interesting. I see no Schadenfreude amongst Russians, none at all. First, most Russians simply like Europe, especially southern Europe with which we feel a much stronger connection. But we also admire the northern Europeans for their undeniable achievements. Furthermore, Russians know, through their own bitter past, that good people can live under a disgusting regime. This is also why Russians don’t usually blame regular US Americans for the policies of the ruling 1%. But what bothers Russians the most is the abject servility of most Europeans in front of an abject regime. The great Russian philosopher Ivan Solonevich used to write that “the Germans are not better organized, they are easier to organize”. What he meant by that is the be it under the Nazis or under the US occupation, the Germans would be exceptionally obedient and willing to be ordered around. In contrast, the Russian people are far more freedom loving and even anarchistic and they always rebel against any authority they don’t respect.

[Sidebar: dubious about this? Consider this: the Germans actually elected Hitler and then obeyed him up until his death. In comparison, the Soviet regime came to power in 1917 but only achieved stability in 1946(!) after a huge civil war, many insurrections, bloody repressions, bloody purges and a terrible war which saw, for the first time in Russian history, millions of Russians switch sides. Even after 1946 – the year of the last big wave of repressions – the Soviets still feared their own population up to 1991, and for good reason, would I add].

I personally expect that the first explosion against the EU will come from France, a country which, like Russia, has a deep, almost visceral, attachment to freedom and which will, I am certain, eventually blow up. When that happens, it will be violent and bloody (alas, another French – and Russian – tradition). I think that the AngloZionists will go to unimaginable levels of depravity and dishonesty to prevent it, but my money stays on France as the first country in the EU to rise up against the Empire. Why? Because the other candidates, Greece, Spain or Italy, will always “look over the shoulders” whereas the French will simply explode in rage with no regard to the consequences (in that the French are much more like the Russians). Plus the French will always hate the Anglos anyway.

Islam: Fact 1: Muslims are here to stay. You can hate it or love it, but that is a fact. Fact 2: Islam, realIslam as opposed to Wahabi Islam, is categorically opposed to AngloZionism. I think that Islam will be one of the forces which will eventually help to “clean house” in Europe. Wahhabism on the other hand, will have to be completely and totally eliminated from Europe. This is a mortal threat to all of civilized mankind, a threat which cannot be negotiated with and which must be totally eliminated.

The Ottomans: Call me crazy, but I am coming the conclusion that Turkey, at least in its present form, is inherently a dangerous and non-reformable entity which must be beat back to a size and quality commensurate with the notion of “normal country”. Just look at the past couple of decades. The Turks were involved in: Cyprus, Kurdistan, Chechnia, Bosnia, Albania, Macedonia, Crimea, Lebanon and Syria! How is that for a terrorism-support scorecard? Does anybody remember that Turkey does still occupy half of Cyprus and that the Turkish military has been bombing and attacking Kurds in Syria and Iraq for decades already. Clearly, the “imperial virus” has not been eradicated in this ex-Empire and this rot must be eliminated until Turkey finally becomes what all other former empires have become: a normal country, like Greece or Holland. By the way, the only thing which currently keeps Turkey together and gives it a kind of immunity is, of course, the protection of the United States, NATO aka the AngloZionist Empire. Get rid of one, and the other will soon follow.

The *real* Left: there used to be a real Left in Europe. And, unlike the modern ‘caviar-Left’ it was really patriotic. The French Communist Party leader Georges Marchais saw through the Capitalists plan to import masses of immigrants and he denounced that as a conspiracy against both the local French and the immigrants. Some of his speeches sound very similar to what Jean-Marie Le Pen has repeated for decades. The real left has now been completely eliminated from Europe or, if it exists somewhere, it is too small to make a difference.

The *real* Right: The National Front of Jean-Marie Le Pen used to be the real deal, even if it was carefully manipulated by the French Socialists. But ever since his daughter Marine came to power, the National Front has been totally coopted by the Zionists and from a popular and labor movement it has now turned into the typical Capitalist pseudo-Right which is sold out to the system and unable to even peep a word against the Zionists. There is a real Right left in France, mostly around Traditionalist “Catholic” (Latin) circles but, just as with the real Left, it is too small to really make a difference.

Sorry for this long rant. My heart hurts over this topic and it is painful for me to write about. Please don’t come and pester me about spelling or grammar or other inexactitudes. I wrote this in one shot, off the cuff, and at the kind of warp-speed typing I do when I am emotional about something (heck, I won’t even bother re-reading it or check for typos). Though I will post this under the “analysis” section, I do that only because this is a follow-up to my analysis yesterday. But, as you can tell, an analysis this is not – this is just a frustrated and angry rant about what has been done to the place were I was born and which I still love.

To end on something personal and beautiful, I leave you with this GoogleEarth photo of the place in Greece where, as a kid, I learned how to free-dive (decades before the movie “The Big Blue” made freediving a trendy sport): the rocks near the village of Αγία Μαρίνα (Saint Marina), on the island of Aegina. I visited this place at the age of 12 for the first time and this is also were I spent my honeymoon, almost 23 years ago. This is also one of the places I call ‘home’.

Αγία Μαρίνα

(Republished from The Vineyard of the Saker by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: EU, Immigration 
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  1. So sad. In every place Jews have been allowed to settle, Jewish leftists and Jewish rightists have competed to destroy the native population. For centuries, European leaders recognized this and expelled the Jews — exploiter and exploited alike. Since Jews became a global power, however, they have despoiled and subjugated every free people. The only force they fear now is Islam, which they disrupt and provoke to keep the public obsessed with the terror, but which through its Jewish-like obsession with building networks to obtain money and power, may ultimately overcome the US and thus the world.

    • Replies: @marwan
  2. As someone who is often rather critical towards him on ideological issues, I have to say The Saker hits this one out of the ballpark.

    But then all hell broke lose with the arrival of the “Arabs” from the Maghreb (northern Africa) who were not all, or even really, “Arabs” but nevermind that, and sub-Saharan (Black) Africans. Can you imagine what it feels like to see *real* Africans in larger and larger numbers all over your home town when you used to joke that the border with Africa was Carouge (I repeat that example because I consider it very telling)? It felt like a plague, even if nobody was willing to admit it…. The real plague were the 2nd generation kids who were neither Europeans nor Muslims. Now those, especially the Algerians, accounted for the vast majority of crime and they were truly a horror to put up with: arrogant, loud, uneducated and very aggressive. These Maghrebians typically would mix with 2nd generation Black Africans and form the core of almost all the gangs of criminal thugs roaming around. And none of them, zero, were Muslims in any sense of the word, not religious not cultural. Again, I speak of long and personal experience, so please don’t come tell me that I don’t know Europe or Islam, because I do, very well in fact.

    Incidentally, I have read somewhere that a lot of the Blacks living in proximity to Muslim ghettoes in places like Bradford, England have been converting to Islam and going from race warring with the local Muslim gangs to being a big happy Mohameddan family. Any truth to this?

    This is absolutely disgusting, revolting and suicidal. To say so has absolutely nothing to do with racism and only a person totally devoid from any real cultural roots can misinterpret the horror of those who see their cities and cultural roots being smashed by waves of non-integratable immigrants as a form of racism.

    You should work on eliminating your conditioned reflexes on getting called a racist. Come on, it’s The Current Year. Racism is kosher now. ;)

    I see no Schadenfreude amongst Russians, none at all. First, most Russians simply like Europe, especially southern Europe with which we feel a much stronger connection. But we also admire the northern Europeans for their undeniable achievements.

    This is a very accurate observation. It is my impression too that most Russians consider themselves more at home in places like Greece or Italy than in Germany. I do however see considerable Schadenfreude, especially on the Internet but even in RL when bad things happen to “tolerast” Yuropeans. Its understandable if not very saintly.

    I too expect the Revolution to kick off in France, should the nationalist wave outpace the rising immigrant flood anywhere.

    You can hate it or love it, but that is a fact. Fact 2: Islam, realIslam as opposed to Wahabi Islam, is categorically opposed to AngloZionism. I think that Islam will be one of the forces which will eventually help to “clean house” in Europe.

    Allying with kebab to remove bagel is a risky strategy to say the least. One asks how many concessions ala Houellebecq that would require…

    there used to be a real Left in Europe. And, unlike the modern ‘caviar-Left’ it was really patriotic. The French Communist Party leader Georges Marchais saw through the Capitalists plan to import masses of immigrants and he denounced that as a conspiracy against both the local French and the immigrants. Some of his speeches sound very similar to what Jean-Marie Le Pen has repeated for decades. The real left has now been completely eliminated from Europe or, if it exists somewhere, it is too small to make a difference.

    I don’t think so. The National Front is the most consistently nationalist, anti-immigrant, and (relatively) Russophile force in French politics – even according to opinion polls sorted by party affiliation. The Commies are the opposite on all those issues. The age of the Old Left is all gone, what’s left now is just the Islam-pandering #RegressiveLeft.

    But ever since his daughter Marine came to power, the National Front has been totally coopted by the Zionists and from a popular and labor movement it has now turned into the typical Capitalist pseudo-Right which is sold out to the system and unable to even peep a word against the Zionists. There is a real Right left in France, mostly around Traditionalist “Catholic” (Latin) circles but, just as with the real Left, it is too small to really make a difference.

    The traditionalist French Right has near zero political power. As of today, it’s the FN or nothing – like it or not.

  3. lushfun says: • Website

    It takes both sides to want to integrate but the negotiations for said integration begin either before or after.

    tweaking how people interact through social engineering will create a severe backlash in the form of generational blowback. what we see today is only the top of the iceberg, when society at its’ plurality shows up and begins to act out what they really believe that is in contrast to the ‘perceived’ norms of what was done to build up a controllable, pliable, body politic everyone will be in shock.

    it is sad that nobody believe in the impossible until it is present and exits. when the volcano erupts no amount of media manipulation, or state ‘direction’ will work. all the institutes that profess power will seem completely useless. there are no outlets anymore everything is under control, which implies that there is no control anymore at all. it no longer exists, Europe is simply operating by inertia, politicians and the public are clueless that this is the state of affairs.

    all that is left is a nudge by an unforeseen event… that is all
    http://www.lushfun.com

  4. I was born in Iowa in 1944. My country also has been stolen. I also am angry.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    , @Anonymous
  5. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Letting muslims come to Europe was the greatest mistake ever made in all of European history.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
  6. Ttjy says:

    What is happening to Europe is a tragedy. The people running Europe and the US for the last 50 or 60 years have been the worst leaders in history because they are traitors to their own people.

    It’s interesting that you mention capitalism. Business is one of the biggest immigration and multicultural/diversity pushers there is.

    Capitalism not communism might bring about the end of the West. Europe will be European in name only.

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
    • Replies: @VKR
  7. Discard says:

    You would expel the Anglo-Zionists, and let the Moslems stay? Why?

    • Replies: @marwan
  8. anon • Disclaimer says:

    the Muslims, and here I mean the really religious and pious Muslims, were always respectful of the law and excellent neighbors … snip …and that they are very careful about showing a refined, educated and proper image of Islam in front of non-Muslims. The real plague were the 2nd generation kids who were neither Europeans nor Muslims.

    I agree that is what happened but you’re wrong about the mechanism.

    1) When people are in small numbers they are on their best behavior. When the numbers increase it changes.

    2) When numbers were small involvement in visible crime was small but they had no respect for the local laws in other areas: fraud, welfare, tax etc.

    3) One aspect of the second point – lack of respect for local laws – factors into the first. People from those more clannish parts of the world were the ones who first imported huge numbers of illegal workers from their home country to undercut local wages: restaurants, construction, shop workers etc.

    Muslims are here to stay.

    No.

    #

    I loved the languages (I speak Spanish, German, French, Italian), I loved the beautiful diversity of people, the music, the food, the landscapes, the accents and beautiful buildings

    as for the UK, it was never European in the least. If anything, the UK was always anti-European and the worst enemy of Europe

    There is some truth in the idea that the UK has always been semi-detached and a lot of truth in the idea that the London banks are an enemy but one of the reasons that Europe was until very recently still a patchwork quilt of diverse cultures and nations is Britain stopped any single nation taking over.

    Having said that I’d agree that currently Britain has been totally hijacked by the banks and is effectively one of the bad guys.

  9. @Anatoly Karlin

    You are right about the Saker being pretty much right about everything in this article.

    … it’s the FN or nothing – like it or not.

    You are also right about this. I think Jean-Marie Le Pen is great but he and other people need to realize the FN is no longer a gigantic IRL trolling prank but is actually a political party trying to win power via elections. Twisting the “Zionists” tail is fun but it’s a hobby we can no longer indulge in during this long crisis we’re in. J-M Le Pen can go ahead and enjoy his sunset years trolling the world but he can’t expect everyone else to play along indefinitely.

    I don’t understand what the Saker means when he says the FN “has been totally coopted by the Zionists and from a popular and labor movement it has now turned into the typical Capitalist pseudo-Right which is sold out to the system and unable to even peep a word against the Zionists”. The FN consistently speaks out against globalism, against chamber of commerce groups who push for imported cheap labour, against the banksters etc.

  10. “…from a popular and labor movement it has now turned into the typical Capitalist pseudo-Right which is sold out to the system and unable to even peep a word against the Zionists.”

    To continue fighting, one must first survive. Reduced to guerrilla warfare, you have to blend in or die.

  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Although you consider it a “rant” it is a very good analysis. Thank you for that and hopefully some “Gutmenschen” (good people, those who welcome the invasion) will read you and start to think by themeselves…

  12. @Anatoly Karlin

    The real plague were the 2nd generation kids who were neither Europeans nor Muslims.

    There is a slight flaw in Saker’s logic here: namely, where do 2nd generation immigrants come from if not from 1st generation immigrants? If one wants to keep out the former, then you have no choice but to keep out the latter as well. The fact is, Islam is a middle eastern religion which has no place whatsoever in an Occidental nation. It evolved for a very different landscape and culture–not ours. That’s ultimately why it does not adapt very well to our civilization. It was not made for it.

    But on this point, Saker wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to defend the 1st generation immigrants, while bemoaning the long-term effect that all of this immigration has had on Europe. I see this as part of his strange notion that Russian Orthodoxy and ‘true’ Islam (whatever that means) are somehow natural allies in the struggle against ‘decadent Western secularism’. This bizarre idea of his forces him to ignore the various contradictions in his own thinking.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Avery
    , @Max Payne
  13. Renoman says:

    Always nice [and very rare] to get a realistic view.
    Thank you!

  14. marwan says:
    @Martin Gomez

    So sad. In every place Jews have been allowed to settle, Jewish leftists and Jewish rightists have competed to destroy the native population. For centuries, European leaders recognized this and expelled the Jews — exploiter and exploited alike. Since Jews became a global power, however, they have despoiled and subjugated every free people. The only force they fear now is Islam, which they disrupt and provoke to keep the public obsessed with the terror, but which through its Jewish-like obsession with building networks to obtain money and power, may ultimately overcome the US and thus the world.

    A list of Great Countries zero Jewish , Zionist or Israeli population of influence whatsoever .
    Pakistan , Afghanistan , Sudan , Mauritania , Somalia , Algeria , Libya , Tunisia , Iran , Bangladesh ,Burkina Faso , Mali , Chechnya , North Korea , Indonesia , Djibouti , Yemen .

    http://news.trust.org/item/20160327150234-v8xig

    By the way . Your Islamic buddies send their warmest Easter wishes to you !!!!!
    52 killed in park in Pakistan filled with Christians for Easter Holiday . Mostly women and children killed .

  15. marwan says:
    @Discard

    Neither because he will never get the opportunity to do either . For what its worth . Andrei the Faker , who hates anglozionism and loves muslims , lives in Florida USA .

  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I think you should take a longer view of what will happen to Europe with non-white immigration. The non-whites will produce the next generation with whites and after that another generation of further mixed will be born. After 3 generations there will be stability and also unity as most people in Switzerland and elsewhere in Western Europe will look Mediterranean and be mixed race.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @anon
    , @Eckbach
  17. Parbes says:
    @marwan

    “Chechnya” is a region, not a country, you jerk.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  18. VKR says:

    [Sidebar: when I say “Europe” I mean Western Europe, the real Europe, the one which was occupied by NATO, not the eastern part, occupied by the WTO (Warsaw Treaty Organization, it was never called a “Pact” – this is US propaganda), which never was really Europe anyway. No offense to anybody, but for me the notion that Poland or Bulgaria are part of Europe is laughable. ]

    Stopped reading here. I hope the author gets to enjoy lots of well deserved muslim dicks in his superior ‘european’ ass in his cuck countries. Meanwhile we inferior ‘non-europeans’ in Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Latvia, Estonia, etc remain white.

    • Agree: Regnum Nostrum
  19. VKR says:
    @Ttjy

    > The people running Europe and the US for the last 50 or 60 years have been the worst leaders in history because they are traitors to their own people.

    They haven’t betrayed their fellow jews.

  20. I don’t feel like discussing what the central and eastern European countries ought to be called, maybe “eastern European” is okay, but they never were in any way part of western Europe.

    Seeing the slow and painful death of western Europe one can only call it a blessing. Long after Saker’s Europe is gone, we who have never been in any way part of it, we will still be here looking at the smouldering ruins of true Europe’s arrogance.

  21. szopen says:

    [No offense to anybody, but for me the notion that Poland or Bulgaria are part of Europe is laughable.]
    Stopped reading at this point.

    Fuck you, you ignorant idiot. Go and read some history, fucking idiot. This is the last Saker;s piece I will ever read.

  22. utu says:

    I liked this rant by Saker. This rant is full of flaws but he showed his emotions and where he is coming from. He is more human for me now. His previous analyses on Russia and Syria were contrived. You could feel the pain of labour he went through trying to be kind of objective. But his biases and prejudices were sticking up their heads all the time even though he was trying to hide them. He is not suited to be an analyst. He can’t serve two masters: the rational objective mind and the passions that are full of prejudice and bias. Let Saker be Saker. Let him be the partisan of his passions. I like him like that.

  23. utu says:

    Saker seems to ask: Jews or muslims? Are Jews responsible for the diversification of Europe’s population? Some of them are working very hard to transform European ethnic make up of European population via immigration:

    See Barbara Specter (of US/Israel/Sweden): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ (A spectre is haunting Europe — the spectre of Barbara Specter).

    “I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive.”

    Are Jews part of the bigger Plan or is the Plan Jewish? What about the ideological father of multicultural Europe Austro-Japanese aristocrat Coudenhove-Kalergi? This what he envision?

    “The man of the future will be of mixed race. The races and classes of today will gradually disappear due to the elimination of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-negroid race of the future, similar in appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples and the diversity of individuals. Instead of destroying European Judaism, Europe, against her will, refined and educated this people, driving them to their future status as a leading nation through this artificial evolutionary process. It’s not surprising that the people that escaped from the Ghetto-Prison, became the spiritual nobility of Europe. Thus, the compassionate care given by Europe created a new breed of aristocrats. This happened when the European feudal aristocracy crashed because of the emancipation of the Jews.”

    He was not Jewish but as we can see in his vision Jews are to be spiritual nobility of Europe that apparently is not meant to be genetically diluted as the rest of Europeans. So people like Jean Monet, Alteiro Spinelli, Karl Deutsch, Ernst Bernard Haas, Bernard-Henri Lévy, Adam Michnik and many many others are the new aristocracy of Europe.

    But what about the terrorism? Is there a Jewish link? There are many. All going through Israel and the US (including Gladio and Turkey’s deep state of Donmeh). It is complicated but it can be safely stated that w/o Israeli Arab conflict there would be no muslim terrorists. The attacks are LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) or even MIHOP (mad it happen on purpose) by European security forces in conjunction with their Gladio and Mossad counterparts. So we, the people can’t do anything about it. The attacks will stop only when the objectives will be achieved. but we even do not know for sure what are the objectives.

    Can anything be done about it? Is Saker really serious that white and Christian Europeans can be aided by muslims to purge Zionists out of Europe? It seems that the terrorists attacks serve the purpose that there will be no alliance between muslims and Christians and instead the bond between Zionists and Europeans will be stronger fighting the specter of islamic terrorism.

    Or should we rather get the program of Anglo-Zio empire and busy ourselves in finding the best opportunities, jobs and career for our children? Could we become crypto Europeans, Christians in catacombs? Is any resistance futile?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  24. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Yeah, just like Brazil. What a great country Brazil is. No crime, no poverty, one of the world’s leading nations…….

  25. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Excellent post sir. May I commend you for saying it so well. It makes zero sense, is in fact a denial of logic itself, to say the “immigration problem” lies with the second generation and giving a pass to the first one. There can be NO second generation without a first one. So IF the second one is the “bad apple” but is itself only a by-product of the first “good one” then what is the point or value of immigration at all? By this reasoning immigration must ultimately turn into a bad thing. Its like a doctor giving you a pill that will make you feel great for a while then later kill you and the doc saying “the pill is great, it is only the after effects later that become a problem”.

  26. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    “When people are in small numbers they are on their best behaviour. When the numbers increase it changes.”

    Excellent point. As Enoch Powell so truthfully said; “Its all about the numbers”. I am sure Muslims caused no trouble in the U.K., for example in the 1950′s. As late as 1961 there were only 50,000 Muslims in all of England and Wales. When people are only a few they have little means to get up to any mischief and are very vulnerable, so they have to not give offence (even if they FEEL otherwise). But there is strength in numbers! Muslim behaviour changes dramatically when they go from 0-2% of the population to 5-10% and becomes very, very dangerous when it is say, 12-25%. In the 1950′s England probably had as much trouble with its Muslim population as Poland does today. And for the same reason. People often mistake this “good” behaviour as “goodness”. But it isn’t. It is just a response to the reality of the current demographic situation.

    • Replies: @anon
  27. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I wouldn’t claim to have a crystal ball but if the first blowup against the EU comes from France then hopefully it will be so and come soon enough. However, aren’t the French the ones who started importing Africans into Europe to serve as their colonial troops against the Germans in the first world war? The Hungarians have an outspoken leader in Orban whose words travel beyond borders and makes other ears perk up. It seems the non-western Europeans are the ones who’ve resisted this demand that everyone commit collective suicide. Like the Poles helping defend Vienna in 1683 against the Turks while the French sent little help, perhaps it’s from these countries that the inspiration for the fightback will come. Islam is an inherently non-European, Asiatic intrusion that should be confined to the countries whose cultures are compatible with it. Europe needs a great housecleaning to undo the damage of the past seventy years.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  28. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    The degree of racial tension in a military unit rises with the number of Blacks. Ten percent, no problem. Twenty percent, you’ve got conflict. Thirty percent, you’re got open hatred.

    • Replies: @anon
  29. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    I understand Saker’s anger.

    Just get a load of this.

    Yuck.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrrlBsGHkm06xxmwejF9bqDHdbh78OBA-

  30. Discard says:
    @marwan

    A list of Moslem countries, plus one Moslem region and a nutcase communist non-Moslem country is not an argument against keeping Jews’ hands off the levers of power.

  31. “All the French Right cared for was profit, profit and profit. The French workers were superbly unionized, they have achieved remarkable social and labor rights and the French capitalists simply could not turn them into the kind of right-less workforce they needed, so the imported them from abroad.

    “As for the Left, it saw in this influx of immigrants a fantastic political opportunity to achieve the kind of societal change it always wants to achieve: a wholesale destruction of any form of tradition, national identity and religion.

    “The French Zionists, in particular, saw a fantastic opportunity to weaken the French national identity by branding it as by definition racist. This is how they did it.”

    This is a remarkable analysis, in that it resembles how our democracy is being managed here in America. Certain aspects are either more or less extreme, taking into account the inverted totalitarianism by Wall Street, the empire center being Washington, the essentially conservative nature of even American liberals compared with those of Europe. American Zionists may not have had precisely the same motives. But the overall trends are recognizable and must come from essentially the same impetus.

  32. […] A Stolen Europe, by The Saker. This is self-confessed rant by a fifty-year old Swiss about the Europe that he says was stolen from him twice over, once by the EU project and once by too much immigration. Many interesting points, much of it non-PC, including: […]

  33. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Yes, an 85 IQ slave race to serve a global master race is the end result desired by the people responsible for this looming disaster.

  34. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    I am sure Muslims caused no trouble in the U.K., for example in the 1950′s.

    Exactly. Growing blind anger will eventually take over but the real villains are the ones behind the project to destroy Europeans – who are mainly the banking mafia imo

    (Who I don’t think are “The Jews” exactly but usually end up seeming like they are.)

  35. mtn cur says:

    Are you sure that you were not writing about the USA?

  36. Avery says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Agree with the others: excellent post.

    Also, very astute observation by you: {I see this as part of his strange notion that Russian Orthodoxy and ‘true’ Islam (whatever that means) are somehow natural allies in the struggle against ‘decadent Western secularism’. This bizarre idea of his forces him to ignore the various contradictions in his own thinking.}

    Very strange notion indeed.

  37. To call the Warsaw Treaty a “Pact” is not improper. A pact is simply a treaty. That’s not propaganda, it’s just plain English.

    “…like Russia, has a deep, almost visceral, attachment to freedom….”

    This has never been true. Russians have never known full freedom and the very idea is, at best, academic in Russia. It’s why an idiot like Putin, who is dragging the country down, can be repeatedly elected.

    ” The Turks were involved in: Cyprus, Kurdistan, Chechnia, Bosnia, Albania, Macedonia, Crimea, Lebanon and Syria!”

    Really? Turks were involved in Cyprus in the early 70s and Syria. Perhaps Lebanon, but unliekly. But they were involved in the others it was quite covert. It is truly silly, however, to accuse them of involvement in Crimea and Chechnya, beyond condemning Russia’s actions there. Erdogan has been acting stupidly, and nothing like a man who can competently re-establish anything, much less keep what he has functioning.

    I find it rather interesting that you say you’re Swiss, but use “we” in referring to Russia. Which is it?

    I agree that, by and large, that the Europe of my youth is gone. European used to be confident in themselves and it showed in how they faced the world. The common market made sense, the EU, however, is a suffocating presence that simply needs to be thrown in the dust bin of history. I’m putting money on who will be first to rise against it, but the biggest cracks are in the UK, not France. Ironically, the UK tried, repeatedly to get in the common market, and DeGaulle was the main influence to keep them out.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  38. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    The man loves “real Islam,” just not the twisted Wahhabi version. And since “real Islam” is virulently antisemitic, “real Islam” is the perfect elixir to cure Europe’s ailments. While Poland isn’t European, “real Islam” is as European as knockwurst on Oktoberfest.

  39. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Not just in a military unit sir. Anywhere. A neighbourhood. Workplace. ANY avenue of life. As their numbers increase the hatred increases. This has been my own personal experience. Working with blacks, especially Jamaicans was a real eye-opening experience for me. Once they feel there is enough of them, their true nature comes out and the “good behaviour” is dropped.

  40. @Quartermaster

    Russians have never known full freedom and the very idea is, at best, academic in Russia. It’s why an idiot like Putin, who is dragging the country down, can be repeatedly elected.

    Hmmm. So what’s your theory on America?

    I find it rather interesting that you say you’re Swiss, but use “we” in referring to Russia. Which is it?

    He’s of Russian descent.

    … the EU, however, is a suffocating presence that simply needs to be thrown in the dust bin of history. I’m putting money on who will be first to rise against it, but the biggest cracks are in the UK, not France.

    I agree that the UK will be the first to leave, but their departure, by itself, won’t affect much. If France ever leaves, however, that will be a dagger through the heart of the EU. At that point, the European Union will really be nothing more than a German Union–and that will kill it in a hurry.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  41. pyrrhus says:
    @anon

    Indeed, much of European history was spent preventing muslims from getting into Europe, and ejecting those who had made it…

  42. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    How does PC work?

    Today, most experts in psychology agree that people use reason to rationalize a priori biases rooted in personal emotions. The prime formative period for associative emotional development is in childhood, and this is why ‘progressives’ are eager to emphasize early childhood education.

    They justify their policy on grounds of proper intellectual development during childhood, but their real goal is to indoctrinate young ones as early as possible.

    Thus, certain images, sounds, and ideas — such as those associated with MLK and KKK — are made to form the basis of emotional references and responses in the young ones. With such PC hallowing of the childhood soul, it’s no wonder that so many millennials have kneejerk emotional commitment to ‘anti-racism’ and worship of the Noble Negro. Even when millennials use reason, it only serves the core emotional assumptions seeded into them in childhood.

  43. Sean says:

    Germans actually elected Hitler and then obeyed him up until his death. In comparison, the Soviet regime came to power in 1917 but only achieved stability in 1946(!) after a huge civil war, many insurrections, bloody repressions, bloody purges and a terrible war which saw, for the first time in Russian history, millions of Russians switch sides.

    A third of Germans voted for Hitler in the last free elections. The Germans can be blamed for the Bolshevik takeover, because they sent Lenin into Russia to destabilise it, and funded him. Germany is also to blame for opening the door to Turkey, Merkel has revived the old alliance. Not just the WW1 Berlin Baghdad express, it goes back to the better Turk than Pope alliance between the Ottomans and the opponents of the Holy Roman Empire.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  44. But ever since his daughter Marine came to power, the National Front has been totally coopted by the Zionists and from a popular and labor movement it has now turned into the typical Capitalist pseudo-Right which is sold out to the system and unable to even peep a word against the Zionists

    Is there no limit to your gayness? They tried being an anti Israel party and it got them absolutely nowhere because French people don’t give a shit about the Palestinians. Once the NF stopped talking about Israel, they got a lot more popular. The BNP failed to take of in the UK because the British people don’t care about the Palestinians. But the UKIP has been very successful because they never mention the Palestinians. Europeans don’t care about the Palestinians, never have, never will, and nothing you say or do can change that.

    You say that Europeans need to accept that Islam isn’t going anywhere. I agree with you, but look in the fucking mirror, you homo. Israel has 150 nuclear weapons and we make 4 more every year. There is no way you can possibly get rid of us unless you are willing to lose 150 of your largest population centers and then lose another 3 billion people in the following nuclear winter. Islam (a beautiful religion, IMO) isn’t going anywhere, but neither are we.

    Your gay Russia however, is dying. It has negative growth rate and massive brain drain to the West. It failed against 10,000 disorganized clowns of ISIS in Syria. Your entire economy is based on oil and the oil price crash is killing it.

    Iran is dying too. In the next war the entirety of the Lebanese people will be physically exterminated, along with the bulk of the Iranian people and literally 10s of millions of Palestinians, Syrians, Saudis, Jordanians and Egyptians. And you will do absolutely nothing to stop us, but rather will console yourself by writing stupid articles on Unz.

    You could at least humor your readers by offering us a plan on how you will get rid of Israel. Honestly, at this point you owe me that much as repayment for my selflessly reading your repetitive garbage and for attempting to educate you.

  45. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    PC taboos have a muting effect on certain voices. If prevailing taboos encourage certain kind of talk while discouraging others, then people will only hear one side of the story. In Martin Scorsese’s documentary ITALIAN AMERICAN, his mother does far more talking that the father.

    She dominates the narrative. The talker always wins whether his/her account is true or not because we only get to hear his/her side of the story. The non-talker may actually be in the right, but we will never know since he never says anything.

    The Muting Method is a key weapon of PC that favors the talk of liars and threatens the talk of truth-tellers. It’s like blacks are encouraged to have ‘the talk’ with their kids, but when John Derbyshire had his own ‘talk’ with his kids and posted it online, he was summarily attacked not only by Liberals but by ‘cuckservatives’.
    PC has the power to hit the ‘mute button’, and disabling this button is the first step toward freedom. It isn’t easy to resist the power of this ‘mute button’ since the mechanism has been programmed into us. When Libs hit the ‘mute button’, WE go silent since we’ve been engineered to fear disapproval of the powers-that-be. And we know that if we disobey the ‘mute button’ and keep saying our say, we can be exiled from respectable community.

    We can’t resist this power alone, so we must form into groups and seek power in numbers and unity. In traditional society, the ‘mute button’ favored the patriarch. Even when wrong and unjust, the patriarch had the power of talk and could blame everything on his wife and kids, even if they were innocent. Since society favored the patriarch who held the ‘mute button’, the wife and kids had to remain silent. Therefore, listeners assumed that the patriarch is a man of honor while the wife and kids are to blame for whatever problem. Since traditional values commanded that wife and kids respect and obey the father, even a father-in-the-wrong could sound righteous and true. There is a sense of this in the Old Testament, a kind of Jewish-Father-Knows-Best.

    In our world, the game is Globalists-Negroes-Homos-Know-Best, and they can say just about whatever. Blacks can tell lies about ‘white racism’, globalists can tell lies about Russia and Iran, and homos can tell lies about how Reagan’s ‘indifference’ was responsible for all the dead homos killed by HIV.

    And the rest of us better remain silent in mute obeisance to the favored groups. For truth and justice, we need counter-voice, counter-talk, counter-narrative.

  46. @Greasy William

    Your gay Russia however, is dying. It has negative growth rate and massive brain drain to the West. It failed against 10,000 disorganized clowns of ISIS in Syria. Your entire economy is based on oil and the oil price crash is killing it.

    Congratulations. I have rarely seen such an impressively dense concentration of stupidity.

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
    • Replies: @Greasy William
  47. Top ranting, almost up to Old Holborn standards.
    But tell me, “bro”, is you R1b, (western europe gold standard), or is you R1a (them cabbage & sausage guys) in the paternal line? Or even primitive I, G2 and remnant J2 haplotypes?
    Counts for a lot, particularly among us halfwitted inbred celtic geezers. Expound your illustrious, indigenous ancient lineage, sir! … or retreat from thy self-determined fortress and relocate somewhat further toward Mordor, and the East.

  48. @anonymous

    The Empire On Which The Sun Never Sets also chucked a shedload of (mainly “Indian”, dot-not-feather: plus impossibly noble, and insanely ferocious Muslim (tribals from further east, not ragheads), Nepali and Maori warriors, ANZACS, Pacific Islanders etc. ) into the mire of Flanders which will be the Death Of Us All, and has been since Prince Harry’s days (Bruxelles, are you listening?

    Canucks, Askaris, you name it. All grist to the revolting processes of European sausage&nation-making, under the financiers’ mandate.
    When we’re all dead, we shall have some Peace.

    I’m doin’ my bit, sir! Gorblimey if I ain’t! Taken up heavy-duty smoking (pipe) again, in my sixth decade. I have no intention of troubling the doctor and that.
    Ghurkali, Samoans, Selous Scouts most welcome, bless you, you have bled with us in the line, better men than us, for the most part.
    W*g chancers, GTF.

  49. @Anatoly Karlin

    Where am I wrong?

    1. Russia is gay. FACT.
    2. Russia’s economy is based on oil exports. FACT.
    3. The crash in oil prices is hurting the Russian economy. FACT.
    4. Russia has utterly failed to defeat ISIS. FACT.
    5. The ethnic Russian population is a below replacement birth rate. FACT.
    6. Russia suffers from massive brain drain to the West. FACT.

    maybe in Russia speaking the truth is considered “stupidity”. I don’t pretend to understand how you Slavs operate.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    , @Max Payne
    , @Druid
  50. ‘This is absolutely disgusting, revolting and suicidal. To say so has absolutely nothing to do with racism’

    actually it does, and until euros can start getting over that and recognising it can be OK in some forms, and it become OK to admit to being it, there is no hope (this is still a big hangup for ‘alt right’ types I think – still in the closet really…)

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  51. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    On the SJW mentality. Why are these kids so ridiculous? Why are they easily triggered?

    Consider which group is dominant in defining our culture.

    Homos tend to be hysterical and bitchy. Our society’s worship of homos encourage young ones(even straight ones) to throw hissy fits like Chris “Leave Britney Alone” Crocker.

    Millennials are a bunch of Crockers.

    Like the oh-tho-thenthitive homos, they throw hissy fits about everything. They make mountains out of molehills. They bitch about victimhood but act like pampered princelings.

    It’s like princess and the pea story. These kids are so pampered that they think a pea is a boulder.

    And the Establishment condones this sort of thing as an attack on the Right.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Stan d Mute
  52. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    “The Germans can be blamed for the Bolshevik takeover..”

    I am inclined to blame the American president Woodrow Wilson. His declaration of war in April 1917 made it essential to get Russia out of the war ASAP. Otherwise the Central Powers could have waited until events played themselves out on their own. Even more probable would have been a negotiated peace in 1917 had the USA minded its own business and avoided what was essentially a European war of imperialism. Europe was ready for peace in 1917 and it was only the likely prospect of final victory with American aid that allowed the war to continue for another year.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @5371
  53. 5371 says:
    @anon

    The Germans did not know the future and had no idea that Lenin would be as successful as he was, let alone that his followers would rule Russia for seventy years. Their allowing him to return had nothing to do with Wilson. Nor was any war participant but Austria-Hungary ready for peace at that time.

    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @anon
  54. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Well, just keep on blaming the Germans for just about everything. History wouldn’t even happen if the Germans wouldn’t be constantly up to something bad. No one has any agency but the Germans.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  55. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:
    @Greasy William

    You are wrong about 5 & 6. As for 1, I have regularly seen transvestites on the Moscow Metro. I have never observed them on the London Tube. Are UK transvestites better dressed? fewer in proportion? more afraid of violence (unlikely in Central London)? Are Russian transvestites deliberately being provocative?

    • Replies: @5371
  56. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:

    The past is another country. Always was. Always will be. You can never go back there. The earth keeps turning. Black and white thinking is a precursor to much mental illness.

  57. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:
    @WorkingClass

    I think it was Catullus who said “The country is going to the dogs.”

  58. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:

    Disturbing though it is to agree with Saker, the EU of the 15 was the place to stop for at least a generation. The Ossis could have been given an associate membership like Norway or Turkey. The Eastward expansion was a plot by the British and Scandinavian Right to undermine deepening of the EU. A rather partial success as the Ossis have become devoted deepeners on most issues. (The Russian fascist idea that the EU’s expansion to the East is a plot against them is laughable delusion about the importance of Russia). One reason for Russia’s reversal of position on the EU was the realization that it would be entering on the same terms as Bulgaria (Putin’s word). Russia wouldn’t get those now. Corruption in Bulgaria (& the other Ossis) is remarkable. Greece should have been a warning.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  59. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:
    @Anonymous

    Well, there’s the British Empire too.

    Criticism of Russia is nasty Russophobia. Hate speech against the US, Germany, UK, France is fair comment. Russian measurements of “Anti-Russian” press articles mean nothing until they measure Anti German or Anti American articles too. Degree of Antiness=Degree of Power. Russia is not in top position.

  60. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @5371

    Wrong. It had EVERYTHING to do with Wilson. They HAD to get Russia out of the war FAST before America sent millions of doughboys to the western front. Since the Kerensky government was committed to keeping Russia in the war, they had to dig up Lenin to get Russia to fold.

    Your also wrong about only the Habsburgs suffering from war-weariness. The French army would mutiny that summer and Italy almost collapse at Caporetto.

    • Replies: @5371
  61. 5371 says:
    @anon

    You have a gift for random capitalisation, but evidently not for argument, since you have not produced any.
    Obviously many individuals on all sides were heartily sick of the war by April 1917. The leadership of every state but the Dual Monarchy, however, were not ready to consider stopping without having achieved close to their maximal war aims, just as I said.

  62. 5371 says:
    @Philip Owen

    Quite frankly, I think the chances of your suffering from some strange sexual and perceptual divagation considerably greater than those of your actually having seen many trannies on the Moscow metro, but still less than those of your simply making it up, my mendacious troll friend.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  63. @Parbes

    I’m sure he knows that trivial technical detail and I only waste time on the trivia of your comment in order to suggest that arrogantly blunt rudeness like yours is unhelpful to worthwhile conversation.

    • Replies: @Parbes
    , @Bill
  64. Ah, I see our Saker friend has woken up. Anyone going his way? I’ll help you get him into the car. Make sure he gets inside. And if it looks as if his old Mum is awake tell her he’s OK, he was his brilliant best, but he’ll probably still need a cold compress for his head in the morning.

  65. Who got there first with the jibe about Africa and borders? At a party given by my Roman friend and host I observed to one of his friends from Milan that my host had said when I spoke glowingly of my visit to Naples “Oh, we say Africa begins at Naples” to which the Milanese said “And we say Africa begins at Rome”.

  66. Ernie says:

    Un cri de coeur that resonates in my breast. Something tragic and increasingly irreversible has happened, is happening, even accelerating. God bless the French and Russians for spilling their blood first, but as always, following the example of history, the rest of us will not be spared and indeed our sacrifices will be necessary to get the job done right.

  67. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    Is it a Divine Edict that Islam is here to stay in Europe? If European Men have the will to expel the Muslims..it will be done. Different genelines are competing for scarce Living and Breeding Space in Europe.

    I’m reading a book by one of the worlds top experts on Mountain Gorilla social behavior. She also happens to be the daughter of the very famous American Actor Jimmy Steward. Here is what I take away from her research:Humans are a glorified great ape species…but we are still a great ape species. Muslims are a different tribe..not our racial-ethnic kind. My prediction:European men will expel the Muslims. The raping of European Women is not acceptable and not forgivable …as is the gang raping of Scandanavian American Teenage Girls in Minnesota by Somalian “American” Muslim Yoots.

  68. Rurik says:

    Wow

    the day the anti-racist looks at what he has wrought, sees how bad it sucks, and then blames the “right wingers” for it

    Islam: Fact 1: Muslims are here to stay. You can hate it or love it, but that is a fact. … …. I think that Islam will be one of the forces which will eventually help to “clean house” in Europe.

    Islam is going to “clean house” in Europe eh?

    Now I know why Germans voted for Hitler. Why the French are voting for Le Pen, and why I will be voting for Trump.

    You liberals are literally insane!

    and then when your anti-European “Muslims are here to stay” suicidal insanity destroys the very last sublime places on this earth, you cry like a baby at what you have done. And try to blame it on ‘right wingers’. It’s beyond pathetic, really.

    Europe belongs to the European people, and yes, that does include the Poles and Estonians and Hungarians, who’re a thousand times more European than you could ever be, no matter what your hurt little feelings tell you. A German has a million times more in common with a Pole than they do with a Turk or a Kurd or a Somali or a German speaking black African born in Germany. That thing you said about the UK not being part of Europe is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.

    All your solipsistic angst and contradictory musings notwithstanding

    The reason Europe is being overrun is because Jews control the Federal Reserve Bank and that gives them the power to buy and bribe or bully all the corrupt governments of Europe. Many Jews hate and resent Western Civilization because it isn’t theirs. Many of them are ego maniacs (mostly because of their hysterically preposterous uber-ethnocentric [Nazi on steroids] religion) and demand that everything in the world revolve around them. And so they hate and want to destroy what’s beautiful and sublime, if it isn’t their beauty. Or their creation.

    They’re like that evil queen from Snow White, who when they look in the mirror, and are told they aren’t ‘the fairest in the land’, seek out to destroy that which is the “fairest in the land”, so that when that blonde bitch is dead, then they’ll be the prettiest!

    It really is that simple.

    And all the assorted butt-hurt liberals and anti-racists and jihad homos railing against the ‘right wingers’- who simply want to maintain the ‘white’ and European Europe of their ancestors, are nothing more than the Jewish led orcs descending on Europe in order to destroy her once and for all.

    Let’s hope Le Pen and Orban and Putin and Wilders and others can prevail and find a way to gently herd the Muslims back into Africa and the Middle East where they belong, eh?

    That’s how you save Europe. Not by blaming the ‘right wingers’ and pining for the day when Islam “cleans house” in Europe.

  69. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor

    that’s some video Priss

    I can easily imagine some of the liberals I know expressing the exact sentiments in exactly the same way if you replace the name Britney with Obama

    ‘he inherited this mess from Bush! From the Republicans! And now people are blaming him!!! He’s a human!!! All you people want is more, more, more!!!’

    It’s perfect!

    • Replies: @anonymous
  70. Sherman says:

    Interesting analysis Andrei.

  71. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @Rurik

    If you are a real MAN…then there are certain things worth dying for. The mass expulsion of Muslims is one of those things worth dying for. Saker writes that statement with full knowledge of what is happening right now in Sweden:the mass rape of Swedish Women …you know, the future Mothers of Swedes.

    Saker

    As a man, what exactly are you willing to die for?

    My response to Rurick.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    , @Max Payne
  72. utu says:
    @Rurik

    Very good comment!

    I thought that by “Islam “cleans house” in Europe” Saker meant making Europe Judenrein. Thus my comment #23.

  73. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Meanwhile, it seems like we will soon be treated to a demonstration of how well, or otherwise, those S400 systems in Syria work:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/03/29/pentagon-and-state-department-order-family-members-of-u-s-troops-and-diplomats-to-leave-turkey/

  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Greasy William

    I don’t think you’re Jew. Jews are smart but what you’re saying makes no sense, no person with reason would say such things. Therefore you must not be Jew and should stop saying you are!

    • Replies: @Talha
  75. I personally expect that the first explosion against the EU will come from France

    As an American, from perhaps the most apocalyptic place in America – Detroit, I have to question this. The France I’ve visited was a Paris too quickly being destroyed and a complacent countryside too absorbed by socialist politics and wine. When I first saw the litter in Paris I wondered, “How can the French live amid such filth? How can their Champs Elysee be strewn with trash, even around their Arc de Triumph?” It took a couple days to learn the giant round concrete obelisks occasionally dotting the street were the only trash cans. And then perhaps another couple hours to realize they were built to be bomb-proof. If Paris, if France, can meekly accept filth up and down their most important street in order to accommodate bomb exploding terrorists, it seems a lost cause to me. I was in CDG once and saw the nonchalance of the French in driving a well-used bomb disposal machine into the airport, parking it over a piece of luggage, and exploding it. No big deal. Just another day at the airport.

    Like Detroit, the French have found it easier to simply walk away from their heritage than to fight the bloody ground war to keep what their ancestors gave them. Our comfortable homes, our soft furniture, our easy jobs, our tv and movies, our air-conditioning, these have all made us weak and unwilling to fight for what is our birthright. Fighting is hard and it hurts. Let’s go home and have a bottle of wine and watch a movie instead.

  76. @War for Blair Mountain

    If you are a real MAN…then there are certain things worth dying for. The mass expulsion of Muslims is one of those things worth dying for. Saker writes that statement with full knowledge of what is happening right now in Sweden:the mass rape of Swedish Women …you know, the future Mothers of Swedes.

    No offense, but climb down off that cross brother. Where were you during the battle for Detroit? Boston? Chicago? LA? Birmingham? Atlanta? Miami? Dallas? Houston? We Americans are no bolder or braver than our kinfolk in Europe. Our cities are in ruins. Our women raped daily by feral Africans and Central American Indians. If we dare try to defend ourselves we are imprisoned or murdered by our own government. How does this differ from Europe?

  77. @inselaffen

    actually it does, and until euros can start getting over that and recognising it can be OK in some forms, and it become OK to admit to being it, there is no hope

    And yet.. And yet even here, *anonymously*, you feel the need to qualify it?!?

    No. There is NOTHING wrong with protecting your inheritance for *your* progeny. And that’s the reality of “racism” as it is defined today. I will not feel guilty for doing what I can to give my children at least what I was given. Never.

    I have nothing against Africans or Mexicans in Africa or Mexico. I wish them all the best. I enjoy visiting Mexico and spending money in their economy. But they have no right to my legacy here. None. Get them all out. Send the Africans back like Lincoln intended, with reparations. But they didn’t fight the King to secure Liberty for themselves and their progeny. MY ancestors did. If we don’t fight for it, it will be lost forever.

  78. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    Always a pleasure to see your thoughts – whether I agree with them or not.

    find a way to gently herd the Muslims back into Africa and the Middle East

    May God bless you with applying compassion in your thought process. It is more than I can give credit to others for, who sound like they wouldn’t mind making Muslims walk the plank. I want people to think about the import of their statements though. As I asked another person who seemed to want to sound macho about the subject (with respect to the same idea for Blacks in America).

    It is one thing to support such a thing on an anonymous forum…it is truly another to raid a family dwelling in the dark – night goggles on, kevlar vest strapped, Mp5 loaded – and drag Black toddlers screaming from under their beds (truculent parents wrist-tied in front of them) to haul them out to awaiting buses…will you wear the boots that kick down those doors? Or will the government hire someone to do this while you feel contented that the only role you played was to call your Congressman to support the AARA (African American Relocation Act) of 2020? Or do you think they’ll all be lining up happily for the one-way cruise for the permanent Safari?

    I would hope that one would not want to actually participate in this endeavor. I can almost guarantee you (unless one is a sociopath), doing this day by day, house by house, will have lasting affects on the psyche; alcoholism, spousal abuse, suicide, etc.

    May I propose a different solution, one that has worked in the past and seems to work in relationships like that between Russia and Chechnya.

    Speaking strictly for Europe…There are already no-go zones for government forces in these areas. I would propose to work with that geographic model and simply stand up indigenous/ethinc and local constabulary forces who are tasked with maintaining order. It is the strongman/satrap model.

    These local authorities would be responsible for, in this order:
    1. Guarantee of security outside their zones; this includes the terrorist kind as well as rapists and hooligans.
    2. Flow of a security-certified labor force outside of those areas.
    3. Maintain security of certain areas of interest that would be safe enough for the majority population to visit; marketplaces, natural parks/forests, stadiums. etc.

    In order to do this, they would be:
    1. Well funded and supplied with necessary equipment.
    2. Be monitored for abuses, but the federal government would give them vast legal powers and the courts can decide whether to accept or dismiss reports of abuse.
    3. Granted liaisons with special forces and federal intelligence to cooperate on certain operations, as necessary.
    4. Be allowed to interfere in local religious customs, for instance deciding who gives Friday sermons, etc.

    They would be let known that any lapses of security would directly fall on their shoulders.

    This would allow a well-vetted labor force to still contribute to a dying Europe (because there is no proposal/policy that is going to fix this – this is a spiritual problem – “…they forgot God, thus He caused them to forget themselves…”). It would also allow locals who are (again) well-vetted to be allowed to move out of those zones into the majority population once it has been ascertained that they are indeed the ones who want to integrate on the terms of the majority population and provide boon.

    This policy would have to be applied in conjunction with:
    1. Absolute military disengagement from the Middle East unless attacked by a nation-state – I cannot stress how necessary this is.
    2. Material incentive for people to leave; ie. buy them a nice lot and a home in their native village of origin (this less fairly inexpensive in those countries and would cost less per family than a forced population transfer).

    May God allow us to find a just and solution to the problems we are facing.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  79. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    No, he’s a Jew – a self-admitted extremist Jew, but a Jew nonetheless.

    How you doin’ – Greasy?

    Methinks that if the only way for you to establish Greater Israel is to hold a nuclear shotgun to the collective mouth of the world – that is pretty clear that this is not a divinely-mandated solution. Especially since many of those same capital contain thousands and thousands of Jews. I’m not talking about the secular ones which don’t mean much to you. I’m talking about the Jewish sages of the Talmud that have an unbroken chain of teachers to the covenant at Zion. How would you account for that before God? Millions of Gentile lives aside, of course.

  80. @Priss Factor

    Consider which group is dominant in defining our culture.

    Homos tend to be hysterical and bitchy. Our society’s worship of homos encourage young ones(even straight ones) to throw hissy fits like Chris “Leave Britney Alone” Crocker.

    (Yes – I am reading the messages here from bottom up.)

    You were SO close here. So close and yet you missed it. It’s not the homos.

    It’s our women. Our wives and our daughters. Giving them the vote was our downfall. Would men listen or care what the homos are whining about? Never. Would our men shed a tear about some poor Central American Indian child stopped at our border? Not a chance. Would our men allow tens of millions of alien men to come here and have a crack at our women? When hell freezes.

    Women. Gotta love em, can’t live without them, but letting them run the nation is a one way ticket..

  81. Everyone sees a problem. What’s the solution? How can it begin? Fortunately we see one example.

    Men with families to support cannot begin this fight, their livelihood is at risk. Their children come first in their day to day needs. So who is left? Our young men? Most are brainwashed by feminist and queer and Zionist propaganda. So whom? The answer is on TV 24/7. It *must* be the men who have raised their families and have only a long decline into sickness and disability before them. Guys like Trump.

    Older men must, for the survival of our culture and our people, for their grandchildren, be our front line warriors. Only they are economically free from the control of the Zionist banksters. Only they can speak and act with impunity. Our “Greatest Generation” failed disastrously. Will our “Boomers” do the same?

  82. @Talha

    Methinks that if the only way for you to establish Greater Israel is to hold a nuclear shotgun to the collective mouth of the world – that is pretty clear that this is not a divinely-mandated solution

    Clearly. Nor is it remotely practical or pragmatic to occupy by terrorism and arms a tiny sliver of land smack dab in the middle of a billion people who hate you enough to die for the cause. It’s idiocy. And yet we are all just going to spend trillions of dollars and perhaps millions of lives wasting away the days until some Islamist gets control of a nuclear device and delivery system. And yet the Jews have the highest IQs? The Jews who agitate and lobby and fight tooth and nail for ever more Islamists to immigrate to Christian nations friendly to Jews? Smart? Hmm.

    We have the answer, always have. It’s worked fantastically well here in America. The Indian Reservation. Just find a friendly Christian nation with lots of empty space (i.e. Russia or America) and build a Jew Reservation. Then just keep the Islamists and Africans at home. How hard is that? Hell, we have a working model in Utah with the Mormon Reservation. Let’s give New Mexico to the Jews! In the deal, we can send our Arabs to Palestine. Permanent world peace – courtesy of Unz.com comments…

  83. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    which came first the Britany or the Israel?

  84. joe webb says:

    the sacker is wobbling. He luvs all of God’s “races” and denies, or at least did about 2 years ago when we had a couple emails exchanged, that the races are unequal…as in IQ for starters.

    He hates white nationalists…and the rest of it. The sacker is a sucker.

    He still chums the water for other suckers, but maybe this article indicates that, god forbid, he is Changing, per Prez Obongo.

    Joe Webb

  85. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Ahh Talha,

    the always articulate thoughtful voice of moderate Islam, even if I don’t always agree with you.

    Speaking strictly for Europe…There are already no-go zones for government forces in these areas. I would propose to work with that geographic model and simply stand up indigenous/ethinc and local constabulary forces who are tasked with maintaining order. It is the strongman/satrap model.

    it sounds to me like what you’re proposing is a sort of official colonization. Kind of how the first Europeans set up forts in N. America, which were ‘no-go areas’ for the Amerindians. And then using these fortresses to systematically increase the numbers of Europeans until the indigenous peoples of the continent were overrun and genocided.

    With all due respect I’d have to say ‘no thank you’ to that proposal, were it up to me.

    a dying Europe (because there is no proposal/policy that is going to fix this – this is a spiritual problem – “…they forgot God, thus He caused them to forget themselves…”).

    well, this is interesting Talha, and I’d like to flesh this question out a little further, since I think it deserves a conversation.

    For now I’ll just say that the spiritual emasculation of Western Civilization has not occurred because of a lack of religion, per se, but rather because we’ve all been marinated in a witches’ brew of anti-white hatred coming from our cultural elites and Hollywood and Madison Ave.

    We’ve been told that to love our own kind is evil and wicked and worst of all, “racist”. We’ve been told that it’s wrong and evil to want to preserve our way of life and our genetic identity. We’ve had it rammed in our faces that we’re guilty, and we must pay for our collective, racist sins.

    That’s why Western man is reeling and floundering, because his elites are his most intractable and hate consumed enemies. He sees no future for his kind, so he doesn’t breed them. Why breed daughters who’ll be handed over to the tender mercies of their worst enemies?

    So no, I don’t see the solution to the spiritual emasculation of Western civilization in simply finishing the job, and self-castrating himself and accepting Muslim (or anyone else’s) domination.

    Rather I see the solution as a renaissance of Western man’s spiritual vigor. (and I don’t mean religious, but if that buoys them, then why not?)

    I see the solution as a general awakening to the spell that’s been cast over us by our enemies.

    We should not harbor anger or wrath against the poor Muslims or Mexicans or others who come to our shores, but nether should we accept our own demise as a people.

    We need to find ourselves again, and regain, as I said- our vigor. How exactly we’re going to do that, I don’t know, but that is my hope.

    As Marine Le Pen is ascendant in France, and Trump here in the US, I have hope.

    It’s isn’t with rancor against Muslims or Hispanics, (who’ve come because they’ve been invited to come), but out of love for my own people and heritage and culture and a reverence for the sheer beauty of the women and children who’re of my own blood. (As I’m sure you feel about yours, as well you should. ; )

    But unlike you, I’ve been told that such sentiments toward my own kind are (rather than the most beautiful affections that a man can have) are the most vile and contemptible racism imaginable.

    It is this pathology that must be undone, and then we Euros will stop “dying” out of sheer self-contempt. And then we won’t need to look around for races and cultures to replace our own (murdered) race and culture.

    I think I’d prefer that solution.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Stan d Mute
  86. @Talha

    Methinks that if the only way for you to establish Greater Israel is to hold a nuclear shotgun to the collective mouth of the world – that is pretty clear that this is not a divinely-mandated solution

    Meh, trying to decipher G-d’s plan is impossible for humans. It can only be figured out in hindsight.

    But the nuclear thing wasn’t about the expansion of our borders so much as idiots like The Saker constantly talking about destroying Israel without explaining how they are going to do it.

    When Nasser and Assad senior talked about getting rid of Israel, they were very clear how they would go about it. It didn’t work out for them, but they had plans grounded in reality and attempted to put them into practice. Idiots like The Saker just think all they need to do is: 1. Write long winded, boring articles about how awesome Russia is 2. ? 3. Israel is destroyed

    If somebody wants to have a real discussion about destroying Israel, I’m all for that. But The Saker is simply a delusional retard and his refusal to provide any details about how Israel will be destroyed is obnoxious and disrespectful to non-retards like myself who are kind enough to read and comment on his shitty articles.

    • Replies: @Talha
  87. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    As I’m sure you feel about yours, as well you should.

    Nope, I’ve married a (convert) lady of Scandanavian stock, sticking to the advice of the Prophet (pbuh):
    “A woman is married for four things: her wealth, her family status, her beauty or her religion. So you should marry the religious woman, (otherwise) you will be unsuccessful.” – Bukhari

    I’ve never defined my own kind as a racial thing, but as you know, that’s due to my background. I benefit both from the walking lamps of Maliki knowledge that scatter the Mauritanian deserts as much as the Naqshbandi spiritual masters of my region of origin.

    May God preserve you and your progeny with honor.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  88. helena says:
    @Rurik

    “And so they hate and want to destroy what’s beautiful and sublime, if it isn’t their beauty. Or their creation. ”

    This is pretty much what I try and analyse when watching TV detectives. On the one hand, Jewish people seem to have a more advanced ability to read emotion, cold read, than north Europeans. And they are also good at recognising archetypal truths about types of relationships and situations. And yet, it’s as if they don’t have such a detailed palette of emotion as north Europeans. When a production is more influenced by Jewish thought (more Jewish people on the production team) there is a glibness about it; the way music is used, camera angles etc. etc. It’s as if Jewish people can’t do edgy; they can do shock and horror very well but grey areas of existence seem to escape their understanding – hence the schmaltz and sensationalism of Hollywood. And also hence their excellence at PR and advertising – Jewish people can home in on the key trigger symbols and soundbites but they struggle to do the concept of doubt, and all that grows from it. As an example – American sitcoms are usually about how people get out of situations they don’t like, with lots of ‘asides’ to camera. whereas, British sitcoms are about coping with situations that people have decided for themselves that they are stuck with. But that being stuck, and settling for being stuck, is also the basis of tolerance and cooperation. And cooperation is why Europe developed and Arabia didn’t.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @utu
  89. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    The Saker is impulsive, aggressive, rude, and intolerant of criticism. Correspondingly, he writes with an energy, force, directness and impact for which I have, when he is on target, the greatest respect. Here he puts a finger on the real evil of, and the real basis of opposition to, what he calls the AngloZionist (aka globalist) project, which is the genocide of the European peoples, both culturally and racially.

    All normal people have a real, intense, rational and proper attachment to their own family, tribe and nation and to their cultural inheritance. True, many of the brainwashed products of the K to early-middle-age Western school system are self-hating advocates of the genocide of their own kind, which is to say liberals, but these are the dupes, the freaks and the perverts who have been empowered by an evil elite. And this is as true of the “Anglos” as anyone else. In fact, the Anglos are the people most brutally victimized by enforced mass immigration, multiculturalism, and political correctness, i.e., the denial of free speech.

    Like the Saker, I remember “Old Europe.” In fact, being twenty years older, I remember it more clearly than the Saker. In the world of my youth, England was not just nearly all white, it was 99 point something percent of long English descent. Today, the capital city, London, is majority ethnic. My father’s home town of Leicester in central England, is majority ethnic. In Birmingham, England’s second city, English children are not even the largest minority in elementary school.* What the English are witnessing is their own deliberate racial and cultural genocide. So hate the Anglo-Imperialists by all means, but spare a thought for the English. Spare a thought, too, for America’s fast declining EuroAmerican majority.

    * Source:

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/asian-pupils-outnumber-white-children-117427

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Philip Owen
  90. Talha says:
    @Greasy William

    Dear Greasy,

    I’ll never call for the destruction of Israel – if, by that, the population is meant. Jews have been living there since antiquity. I’m not about to call for a reversal of policy set by the blessed pens of the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) – may God have mercy on them.

    The government of Israel (the political abstraction of the will of the Zionists) is another matter and has shown itself to be irresponsible at a suicidal level.

    As we exchanged previously, it’s about sovereignty…and what’s best and just for all in the long run.

    May God preserve you and yours.

  91. @Rurik

    For now I’ll just say that the spiritual emasculation of Western Civilization has not occurred because of a lack of religion, per se, but rather because we’ve all been marinated in a witches’ brew of anti-white hatred coming from our cultural elites and Hollywood and Madison Ave.

    That was part of the philosophical backfill yes, but our depopulation is the result of giving our women the vote and then sending them into the workforce knowing it was just a matter of time before they were our “equal” in every respect. This destroyed the life creating balance of biology and promoted by Western culture – our “natural order” where man provided and protected his women who provided and nurtured our mutual progeny. Once women were conceived as “equal” to men it was only a matter of time before our downfall given the market values biologically assigned by nature.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  92. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @Stan d Mute

    It is legitimate to ask the question about how to get from point A to B. It is not legitimate to ask me the question:”What have you done”…for the obvious reason that you don’t know me….

    As far as you larger point:Yes, History will judge European Men very harshly for not rising up and revolting now in 2016 real-time. The complete destruction of Swedes is right around the corner..We need to make it clear to Swedish Men how history will judge them.

    If you are going to take the “its all over view!!!!..Then just stop posting on Unz Review..if you think its all pointless.

    For starters, Native Born White American Men should turn off the NFL and stop playing girly boy Fantasy “What a stud” Football…and turn off the fat bastard slug Mike Francessa and WFAN.

    Here is what I think is going on with White Guy Trump Bros:vote for Donald ….elect Donald POTUS…go back to having Fantasy Football Draft Picks in your Man Cave wood paneled basement…smoke a cigar with your white guy bros…pretend you are an Alpha Male White Guy…Donald bombs Iran…which starts a war with Conservative Christian Russia.

    Perhaps it will take the election of the Old Farting Lesbian War Criminal for White Guy Trump Bros to realize that “we are not in Kansas anymore”

    The clock is ticking for all Western European Males and Native Born White American Males.

    If Trump loses to the Old Farting Hairy Lesbian….what’s game plan B for the White Guy Trump Bros? I’m very surprised that this question has yet to be raised on Unz Review since Trump losing on Nov 8 is a very real possibility.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  93. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    It’s NOT a “trivial technical detail”, you stupid fifth-rate neocon hack. It’s the equivalent of calling Florida, Alaska or Hawaii a “country”. If “he knows” this “technical detail”, as you call it, why does he misuse it? Seems like deliberate malicious subversive propaganda trying to promote Chechen separatism from Russia in people’s subconscious minds in an “off-topic” way, it seems to me…

    On another note: I don’t feel any obligation to try to have a respectful “worthwhile conversation” with mendacious neocon Internet trolls like “Marwan” or yourself. And neither should any normal person, in my opinion – you neocon types are some of the vilest individuals that exist anywhere on Earth at this point in history, and should be banished from all honest discussion of ANY topic. Leopards don’t change their spots. It’s quite funny and revealing also, how you characters start to whine about “blunt rudeness”, etc., whenever your little tricks and games are exposed.

  94. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I’m a first generation American, child of N European immigrants.

    They didn’t come to USA because they wanted to but because they had to in order to survive. They made the best of it — and in the process made the USA a better place.

    But they left their homeland behind.
    Anybody ever think about what that means — to leave the land that has been yours for generations upon generations?

    I visit my parents’ graves whenever I can. They are in the same cemetery as one uncle and paternal grandparents — all were born in the same N European town; at least they’re buried near each other in a town in the American Midwest.

    Other grandparents, also from the same N European town, are buried in a cemetery somewhere in Illinois, I think.

    Other aunts and uncles are buried in New Jersey and Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico.

    Who pays homage to their lives and puts flowers on their graves?

    I have never been to the land where my parents were born, the land of my genealogical roots, the land that formed my DNA. I don’t know where I came from.

    And now Saker tells me that it’s too late, and it doesn’t matter: it’s all different, the land of my roots.

    Where will my bones be buried? Who will put flowers on my grave? Will some Anglo zionist warmongers defile my parents’ and my grandparents’ burial ground as they have the homeland of my parents and grandparents?

    “Next year in Jerusalem.”

    bah.

  95. Max Payne says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    I thought his argument was that the West is so decadent it can turn the children of good people into delinquents.

    This applies to white people today in which morality has plummeted from the past generations (white people on the top wouldn’t be opening up the flood gates of immigration if they had some sense of morality).

    Muslim hooligan children seem to just want to accelerate the decadence in Europe.

    I don’t know how they act in the US really (I assume American culture is a very overpowering one), in Canada they seem well behaved but that’s due to having some minimal standards when it comes to immigration. In the PRC they aren’t really immigrants, but a lot of the Uyghur do move to cities like Shanghai which are predominantly Han Chinese and seem to integrate fine. You’ll see them praying on the street unharassed and that “halal” symbol is stamped on various Chinese products. Though it is true they have caused some trouble in the past in their heartland of Xinjiang, but there is also days of trouble in Hong Kong too so I just assume its the Chinese way of keeping your country together.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    , @woodNfish
  96. Max Payne says:
    @marwan

    Wait what’s wrong with Iran, Pakistan and North Korea?

    North Korea developed its own nuclear program on its own with PERHAPS minimal support from China, Pakistan, OR Russia (depending on the story you want to believe). This is a stark difference to Israel which basically got everything for free from the US and other Western nations.

    Pakistan stole its nuclear plans, which says something about it intelligence competence (or at the least the incompetence of Western intelligence).

    And Iran, the Islamic republic still stands after suffering decades of Western-driven sanctions (because Islam and democracy are not allowed apparently), being surrounded continuously by hostile forces on all sides, and trying to ward off Israeli operations against its scientists and facilities.

    Yemen seems to show the world that yet again a fourth-world drug-chewing (khat) militia can take on a Western-allied, heavily armed, and wealthy Saudi Arabia with nothing but using the rocks on the ground (the same with the Taliban and the US, or Hezbollah and Israel).

    You’re wrong about Djibouti, Camp Lemonnier is located in Djibouti, which is a US navy/marine base, which well…we all know how subservient the US is to Zionists. I’m sure the camp is a very influential source of income to the locals, if not the kick backs to the president himself.

  97. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    As I’m sure you feel about yours, as well you should.

    Nope

    I’m saddened to hear that Talha.

    Just because you married a white women, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have a special place of affection for your own kind. Your own tribe and nation and ancestors and heritage. These things should remain sacred in the depths of your soul, no matter what tribe or race or heritage you hail from, or are immersed in, IMHO.

    I too have dabbled with dating all manor of infinitely charming types, and I suppose I have my preferences, even if my tastes are not all that exclusive. But for my people, my ancestors and my relatives and their progeny, I’ll always have a special love and a warmth, that I don’t just hand out to anyone and everyone equally. I feel if you love all people equally, then you don’t really love any of them in particular, and that is a terrible loss for a human to subject themselves to, at least as I see it.

    May the Gods of eternity and infinite truths guide your path and illuminate your world

    • Replies: @Talha
  98. Rurik says:
    @helena

    British sitcoms are about coping with situations that people have decided for themselves that they are stuck with. But that being stuck, and settling for being stuck, is also the basis of tolerance and cooperation. And cooperation is why Europe developed and Arabia didn’t.

    well, I’ve never really been one for settling. Rather than just learn to cope with it, I’d counsel people to fix it. It’s the rough and tumble that makes us better off for it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  99. Rurik says:
    @Stan d Mute

    there is much truth to what you say, and the biggest losers are often the women who’re taken in by that false god of feminism (wanting to be a man). Cats are a poor substitution for a household full of children’s laughter and a man’s devoted love and strong, caressing hands.

    I pity them.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  100. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:
    @5371

    You would but I probably spend more time in Moscow than you do.​ Regularly means about once a year. I did have a boss’s boss who was a transvestite. (Mates iwth Branson) but other than that I haven’t come across any in the UK. I live a boring life.

    Your insecurities might be showing.

    • Replies: @5371
  101. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I used to row for Leicester rowing club in the mid 1970′s. (I worked in Rugby at the time). Leicester was already very Asian, although not a brown face was to be seen at LC matches.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @CanSpeccy
  102. Nero says:

    ” Islam, real Islam as opposed to Wahabi Islam, is categorically opposed to AngloZionism. I think that Islam will be one of the forces which will eventually help to “clean house” in Europe. Wahhabism on the other hand, will have to be completely and totally eliminated from Europe.”

    Wishful thinking friend… It’s a different branch from the same rotten tree, Islam is a supremacist ideology and I don’t see any kind of reformation among the Muslim community materializing anytime soon. They are going to want more from Europe and we can thank the enablers in politics and academia for that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  103. Talha says:
    @marwan

    Your Islamic buddies send their warmest Easter wishes to you !!!!!
    52 killed in park in Pakistan filled with Christians for Easter Holiday . Mostly women and children killed .

    Most were Muslim actually. And to trounce this whole; ‘it was an Islamic thing.’

    The prohibition against killing women and children even on a battlefield is a ruling that is agreed upon by consensus by all four Sunni Orthodox schools – there are NO dissenting voices on this matter. The prohibition is as solid as the prohibition on alcohol. It is based on a hadith that is reported by so many chains of transmission that it reaches the status of tawatur (impossible to have been misquoted or forged – it is literally as sound as any verse in the Qur’an).

    Please pay us the intellectual respect to stop lying about these matters and stick to facts.

    Peace.

  104. @Parbes

    I am sorry for your nearest and dearest if there are any of them left living with you. Suffering from Choler as it was once called – uncontrolled anger – is bad enough: but stupidity as well!!!!

    I say that with confidence because you purport to have formed conclusions about me which are impossible on any adequate assessment of the evidence provided by my many and quite varied comments on UR. I am, I note, not only not a neo-con, I am Australian of entirely Anglo-Celtic descent and don’t think I have even met a neo-con. How deranged and stupid can anger make you?

    • Replies: @Parbes
  105. Rehmat says:
    @marwan

    “A list of Great Countries zero Jewish , Zionist or Israeli population of influence whatsoever .
    Pakistan , Afghanistan , Sudan , Mauritania , Somalia , Algeria , Libya , Tunisia , Iran , Bangladesh ,Burkina Faso , Mali , Chechnya , North Korea , Indonesia , Djibouti , Yemen.”

    I got to lift my Skullcap for this moron.

    Iran has the largest and oldest Jewish community (30,000) in the Middle East. In fact Jewish Book of Esther is written about Persia. Purim is celebrated for the Holocaust of 75,000 Persians at the hands of the powerful local Jews.

    Algeria was full of Zionist Jews, who decided to leave the country for France after Algeria got independence from France.

    Sudan , Mauritania , Somalia, Libya , Tunisia, Indonesia , Djibouti , Yemen – all have Jewish minorities, and even Pakistan has one Jew living in Karachi. However, they all hate the Zionist entity and support Palestinian cause.

    BTW: I didn’t know North Korea was a Muslim country though it doesn’t recognize the Zionist entity.

    On December 7, 2011, Israel’s Tunisian-born deputy prime minister Silvan Shalom made another call on the small Tunisian Jewish community (pop. 2,000) to immigrate to Israel.

    Jacob Lelouche, who runs a kosher restaurant and was an independent candidate in October 2011 national elections, told BBC reporter on December 31: “Where would I go – to Europe? Come on, I’m not stupid. To Israel? I’m not that stupid either. Silvan can say whatever he wants. I am Tunisian, this is my country. I will stay here. Silvan can not tell me where to live.” Such comments were censored later by the Zionist-controlled British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC).

    https://rehmat1.com/2012/02/02/tunisian-jew-im-not-stupid-to-immigrate-to-israel/

    • Replies: @marwan
  106. @Talha

    You say that the prohibition on killing women and children is as solid as the prohibition on alcohol.

    I find it quite chilling that you can say that without noticing its totalitariam premodern flavour. Calvin’s Geneva or witch burning Puritans of New England come to mind though Medieval might not be inapprpriate.

    • Replies: @Talha
  107. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    Let me clarify myself. Yes indeed, I am indebted to the Muslim culture of the Indian subcontinent, its solid Hanafi roots and the spiritual mastery of the various Sufi orders (Naqshbandi, Qadiri, etc.) – not to mention the food, eh? Nothing hits me like a well stated quote from Iqbal (may God have mercy on him). I merely meant that I do not hold it in such a way as to prevent me from marrying someone outside my genetic heritage when I have found piety in her – because that is the primary concern, keeping my genetic line ‘pure’ is not.

    There is a balance to strike…

    I know from my tradition that the Prophet (pbuh) spoke strongly against the concept of assabiyya which describes groupism (whether racial or national or tribal). He was noted to have stated that, “He is not one of us who calls to tribalism. He is not one of us who fights for the sake of tribalism. He is not one of us who dies following the way of tribalism.” Tribalism here is the Arabic word assabiyya which is very encompassing. He is also reported to state that, “There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of God they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose.” Clearly denouncing atavistic chest thumping.

    However, he drew the line clearly when he was asked by someone, “Is it tribalism (assabiyya) for a man to love his people?” “No”, he answered, “tribalism is to support your people in an injust cause.”

    I think that is a standard any reasonable person would recognize; nothing wrong in loving your people as long as it does not lead to harming others.

    May God preserve you and yours.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  108. Max Payne says:
    @Greasy William

    Even though I don’t agree, I like your style.

  109. @Philip Owen

    But which foreigners matters doesn’t it? I have never been to Leicester but I understand that it is blessed with Asians who are largely ex East African Indians and that it remains a very civilised place to live. Likewise I live in a large Australian city where many East Asian and subcontinental faces, mostly younger than average, transform the streetscapes where, before 1970, very few non European faces would have been seen amidst its solid Victorian buildings and growing number of European modernist buildings. And I find it delightful and foreshadowing a future which is largely free from Europe’s and US demographic problems. (At least we have time to learn from others’ disasters).

  110. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dear WoO,

    Very good question, and I do understand what you are implying. Fear not, that prohibition applies only to Muslims – and this is on a public level – I have seen NO ruling that states the government should be busting down doors to stop Muslims from sipping moonshine. Non-Muslims are not prohibited from imbibing liquor (or things like eating pork, dealing with usury, etc.) within Muslim lands according to the soundest positions in the Sunni Orthodox schools. Even a Muslim husband cannot stop his non-Muslim wife from drinking alcohol (for the Malikis, this is absolute, some of the other schools have certain restrictions, such as, as long as she doesn’t get drunk – which obviously affects the family).

    What I merely meant was, most people (even non-Muslims) would automatically dismiss some Muslim who says alcohol is permissible to drink. I am merely stating that the prohibition against killing women and children (though not as well known to non-Muslims) is on the same level based on the evidence from the primary texts as codified by our top scholars.

    My sources are traditional Sunni manuals of law; like Umdat us-Salik (Reliance of the Traveller) by the 14th century Shafi’i scholar, Ahmad al-Misri, Beheshti Zewar (Heavenly Ornaments) by the Sufi/Scholar of British-Raj India, Muhammad Thanavi (with citations to earlier works from Ibn Abidin and al-Haskafi – who are known from the East to the West among the Hanafis), Taj wal-Iklil (The Crown and the Trophy), by the Maliki jurist al-Muwaq, and Ma’arif ul Qur’an (Knowledge of the Qur’an) by the late Mufti Muhammad Shafi’i (who was the late Mufti of Pakistan – and though this is a work of exegesis he presents commentary from the view of an accomplished Hanafi Jurist) – may God raise all their ranks.

    May God bless you and yours.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  111. Avery says:
    @Talha

    {Most were Muslim actually.}

    What do you base that on ?
    Any evidence?
    And whether some or most were Muslim, is not the issue here is it?
    Taliban targeted Christians gathered in the park for Easter celebration.
    Obviously a suicide bomber was not going ask Muslims to move away, because he was going to detonate a bomb.
    Christians were targeted: that’s all there is too it.

    {The prohibition against killing women and children even on a battlefield is a ruling that is agreed upon by consensus by all four Sunni Orthodox schools – there are NO dissenting voices on this matter. }

    What a joke: Muslims have been massacring Christian women and children for centuries.
    Your Muslim co-religionists, Turks, massacred about 4 million Christians in Asia Minor between 1915-1923 alone. Mostly old people, women and children.

    What nonsense are you talking about ? { The prohibition is as solid as the prohibition on alcohol. It is based on a hadith…}

    • Replies: @Talha
  112. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “I am, I note, not only not a neo-con, I am Australian of entirely Anglo-Celtic descent and don’t think I have even met a neo-con”

    Being “Australian of entirely Anglo-Celtic descent” does not automatically disqualify you from being a neocon. You don’t have to be Jewish or from the U.S., in order to be a neocon. “Neocon” refers to an ideology and state of mind, not ethnic or national background – they are found all over, although the most powerful and harmful of them are ensconced in the U.S. government and elites. If you opine like a neocon, and defend the comments of obvious neocon trolls, then you ARE a neocon, period.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  113. Talha says:
    @Nero

    If I may…

    I don’t see any kind of reformation among the Muslim community materializing anytime soon

    Actually, open your TV set – the Reformation is happening before your eyes.

    Or have we all forgotten that the Reformation in Europe was not a table discussion:
    Hugenots Wars
    Eighty Year’s War
    Thirty Year’s War

    This is what led to the Peace of Westphalia and the subsequent separation of Church and State; the European monarchs did that because they saw that if they didn’t stop the bleeding due to rampant Christian sectarian violence (15 to 20 percent of the prewar population according to http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195399301/obo-9780195399301-0127.xml), there were going to be governing over graveyards.

    So – no thanks. We’d rather not have the Reformation, as that would (by these historically estimated numbers) predict the wiping out of around 300+ million Muslims – equivalent to around 40% of the entire European population.

    May God let our eyes see the dust of our graves before they witness such horrors.

  114. Max Payne says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    I didn’t know real men let those who are inferior govern over them.

    If you’re willing to die for what you believe in why not fight the government which lets these monsters in? It’s not like they got here on a magic carpet (as much as many want to believe).

    Nothing is stopping you from taking action like Timothy McVeigh or Ted Kaczynski, they did what was needed because they believed in their causes (and for Ted Kaczynski he was more right than wrong). Or is that too scary for you?

    See, I know those two by name because they committed to action which brought about some awareness to a situation/issue. I don’t even care to ask what you’ve done because you’re nameless.

    No…. voting for the other spectrum isn’t “fighting the government” because both the left and right will do the same thing, import cheap labor to fatten profits. I don’t care what you’re politician says, when (s)he gets to office and realizes (s)he is powerless that’s what will end up happening. Voting is that thin illusion so you can feel that you actually have some control over the world around you. Illusion is the key word.

    Killing Muslims (the symptom) is easy (all the foreigners that have been in the Middle East, from NATO, US, Israel, even Russia, have shown how easy it is to kill Muslims). Fighting the government (the ailment) on the other hand…. that might be a bit tougher.

  115. Talha says:
    @Avery

    Avery, my good man,

    Yes, let me clarify:
    “Taliban splinter group Jamaat-ul-Ahrar said it carried out the attack against Christians celebrating Easter, although most of those killed were Muslims.”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35916578

    Taliban targeted Christians gathered in the park for Easter celebration.

    Sure they did, and a couple of years ago they pulled this one off:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/16/peshawar-school-attack-one-year-on-the-country-is-changed-completely

    Again, Avery, are we going to play my genocide is bigger than yours?

    I was talking about what is clearly defined for rules of war laid down by medieval scholars from all schools. Whether the Ottomans chose to follow them at a particular time or not is not what I was arguing. Again, if you can explain to me why a belief in the exhortations of the Sermon on the Mount did not stop (just a sample); Ivan from burning Kazan and other Muslim Tartar cities to the ground (with their populations), Western Christians crusaders from sacking (raping, pillaging) the Orthodox Christian city of Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade, Her Majesty’s fleets from bombarding the Imperial Chinese simply because they did not want their population flooded with cheap opium (Opium Wars) – then we’ll talk. Actually, then you’ll have the answer you are looking for.

    Your Muslim co-religionists, Turks, massacred about 4 million Christians in Asia Minor between 1915-1923 alone.

    Sure, since you keep recycling the same argument, I will recycle my response:
    The horrible tragedy of the Armenians took place in the days of the waning influence of the Ottoman caliphate; a Turkish nationalist secular order – The Young Turks – had basically taken hold of the ship of state and were primarily responsible for the Armenian tragedy. The Armenians knew this, which is precisely why Armenian nationalists hunted down the Young Turk leadership across the world and assassinated them. They did nothing to the members of the Ottoman dynasty.

    What nonsense are you talking about?

    Indeed, nonsense…Here is one of the books of reference I am using, from just one school of law:

    Written by a master of the Hanafi school, the brilliant Persian Imam Sarakhsi (may God illuminate his grave) whose knowledge was such that he wrote entire sections of it from prison, without reference to his library, from pure memory.

    So please, if you have a sound reference from ANY of the existing schools of jursprudence (even extinct ones like those of Imams Tabari, Layth, Awza’i – may God grant them grace) to contradict what I have stated – then bring it. Otherwise, you have every right to have your opinion, but it carries as much authority to me as from the guy who fixed my heater recently.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  116. Max Payne says:
    @Greasy William

    You could at least humor your readers by offering us a plan on how you will get rid of Israel. Honestly, at this point you owe me that much as repayment for my selflessly reading your repetitive garbage and for attempting to educate you.

    Not that I’m speaking on behalf of the Saker but it could be the South African way, get a party voted in and have government reforms (la-la thinking of course). SDF had 6 nukes it disassembled when it realized that the ANC was going to win the election. So having nukes does not stop political reforms from disintegrating your country. The USSR had a bazillion nukes and it lost territories left and right after its collapse.

    Europeans, like most white people, don’t care about Palestinians but they sure love to get offended, and show they have been offended, and create a hissy fits around this offense (could be about anything, from breast feeding in public to homosexuality, etc.).

    It’s probably the only reason why Israel hasn’t basically killed off all the Palestinians to ensure that the future Arab-Israelis don’t do to it what happened to South Africa.

  117. @War for Blair Mountain

    It is legitimate to ask the question about how to get from point A to B. It is not legitimate to ask me the question:”What have you done”…for the obvious reason that you don’t know me….

    I don’t need to know you to know what I do, that you’re no different from the rest of us insofar as *failing* to live up to the standard set by the men who bequeathed us this land. I know this simply because you’re neither a martyr nor posting from a government cage. And I don’t mean some counter-productive evil like that halfwit clown in the African church, but meaningful paradigm shifting such as Trump has achieved with discussion of expelling illegals. At very least, had you caused such a shift, you’d have no need for anonymity in posting.

    If Trump loses to the Old Farting Hairy Lesbian….what’s game plan B for the White Guy Trump Bros?

    You are trying to look beyond a very dynamic situation. Will Trump make it to the election? I have my doubts. And revolutions have started over martyrs. My guess, should Clinton return to the White House, is expedited movement toward the financial bubble bursting catastrophically which may be exactly what we need to shake white men from their tv-opiate induced complacency. When they can’t find food, when their air conditioning fails, when mobs of feral savages roam with impunity into their suburbs searching for food, then the excuses will stop. If that day comes, I only hope the backlash hits the Cucks first. The savages must be expelled, but the Cucks need to be the first loaded on the transports.

  118. @Parbes

    Ah, UR has its very own Humpty Dumpty. I trust, in this company, you know the reference.

    • Replies: @Parbes
  119. @Rurik

    Pretending that women are equal to men is as sensible and sane as pretending I am equal to a fish. Nature has given women the awesome power to create new humans and the mental hardware to raise those humans to adulthood without choking them to death. There is no bond like that between a mother and child and no greater satisfaction for a woman than in seeing her children healthy, happy, and raising yet a new generation. That women have been sold this evil fiction of equality is the greatest crime against our people. Removing women from safe loving homes raising children for the role of US Army Infantry troops in battle is civilizational insanity. And as we realize how deeply HBD is baked into our DNA it seems we give too little attention to the male/female dichotomy of our species which is at least as great as the gulf between Bantu and Swede.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  120. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Dear Talha,

    keeping my genetic line ‘pure’ is not.

    yea, that usually doesn’t matter much to us men who we mate with, and what our children look like. We love them because they’re ours. But then when it comes to who our daughters mate with, now that’s usually another matter all together, huh?

    If you’re one of those rare men who could care less if your grandchildren have no physical resemblance to you whatsoever, then I suppose I should say kudos, you’ve thwarted a powerful genetic instinct, but then again, I think it’s there for a reason, no?

    “There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of God they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose.”

    Do you have no consideration for the travails of your ancestors who fought and loved and struggled so that you might live? Is it wrong to honor them? To revere their heroics and sagas? To perhaps, aspire to their greatness?

    Would you call an Apache or Comanche or Seminole ‘Indian’ today who dresses in traditional tribal garb and studies and honors and feel genuine pride at his ancestors – a dung beetle?

    would you call an Irish man who loves Ireland and all its traditions and heritage and who honors its struggles and woes against cruel adversaries in word and deed – a dung beetle?

    would you say the same about a tribal Afghan or Bedouin nomad that fights for his tribe and would die for his tribe, that “in the sight of God they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose.” ?

    Surly that is a touch hyperbolic, no?

    Having an affection for your own extended family and respecting and honoring your ancestors and heritage and all their struggles, is not “atavistic chest thumping’, unless you’re presuming to have done all these things personally. Like you, I also have very little patience for those ultra-nationalists who run around pretending to be the best of the best and better than you and yours because ‘our ancestors did this or that’. But no one said loving one’s own kind was a zero sum game, and that it meant you had to hate others. Hardly. That’s absurd. It just means you have more love for your own son or daughter, your own mother and father, and grandparents and relatives that you do for people you don’t even know, have nothing in common with, or are even threatened by. That’s all.

    “tribalism is to support your people in an injust cause.”

    and taking the Iberian peninsula by force of sword? Was that a just cause Talha?

    nothing wrong in loving your people as long as it does not lead to harming others.

    on this point we agree absolutely

    the problem is when others are intent on colonizing your people with their people and customs and culture, when a defense is mounted to protect one’s people from harm, that’s when the howls and shrieks become deafening that you’re trying to do harm by keeping foreign invaders out, so that you can protect your own.

    That’s the problem today. For some people, any attempt to protect your own from harm and invasion and the cultural and ethnic hegemony of others- is somehow beyond the pale.

    if the British decided to return to Pakistan and India, and demanded areas be set up for British peoples to settle, and adjustments made to the culture to accommodate alcohol consumption and brothels and assorted Western cultural hegemony, I wonder how tolerant Talha and the rest of Pakistan would be, eh?

    May the Gods vouchsafe your journeys and grant you peace always

    • Replies: @Talha
  121. @Rurik

    Are you suggesting that “rough and tumble” is different from and preferable to cooperation? At least to “fix it”?

    And does your “fix it” mean that you think those sit-com families and their larger scale analogues can be fixed in the sense of fixed in place (like a painting on the wall) and/or fixed so that it can now, or again, run untended for the forsseable future?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  122. Tahla: I know we don’t always see eye to eye but I’m sorry about all the anti Islam stuff people say here. Islamophobia really pisses me off. All the major religions besides Buddhism deserve to be treated with respect. Anybody who has any personal experience with Muslims knows that the overwhelming majority are against animals like the Taliban and ISIS. The people who use nutbars like those two groups to demonize most of the world’s Islamic population obviously haven’t met many muslims. If they knew more Muslims, they wouldn’t feel the way they do.

    I mean, they might still dislike Islam, which is their right, but they would at least dislike real Islam and not the cartoonish version they have dreamed up in their heads.

    Not that I’m speaking on behalf of the Saker but it could be the South African way, get a party voted in and have government reforms (la-la thinking of course). SDF had 6 nukes it disassembled when it realized that the ANC was going to win the election

    That’s good. I like it. But I really don’t think that’s what The Saker has in mind. Then again, we can’t be sure what he has in mind because he never fucking tells us. I assume he sees Putin personally leading a tank charge on the Golan, but who knows?

    • Replies: @Qasim
  123. geokat62 says:
    @Talha

    The horrible tragedy of the Armenians took place in the days of the waning influence of the Ottoman caliphate; a Turkish nationalist secular order – The Young Turks – had basically taken hold of the ship of state and were primarily responsible for the Armenian tragedy.

    Just curious, Talha, this “tragedy” you keep referring to, do you consider it to be a genocide, or not?

    P.S. May the gods bestow peace on all of humanity.

    • Replies: @Talha
  124. @Talha

    Thank you. And congratulations and thanks for the care and courtesy in your reply. I am not 100 per cent sure that you took my point precisely, but I move on to something more interesting to me.

    I think you might attempt a serious answer to a question I have tried out on intelligent theologically sophisticated Christians of various denominations. Perhaps you can do better than my Cardinal friend and the Anglican priest who slipped out with a quip.

    The question is how one can believe in an Abrahamic God or think one should care what He wants and seek to obey given the following premises.

    He is the Creator of all that is and Omnipotent. He is Eternal and Omniscient (and Omnipresent if that is not redundant). And he cares about us collectively and as individuals, how we fare and how we behave. He can communicate with us and does from time to time.

    I don’t pose this just as “the problem of evil” though I would be happy for you to address that.

    How can this be? How can there be such a deity? If you hypothesised that he merely set our universe, and then life, evolving (and maybe billions of other universes) for His entertainment to relieve the boredom of eternity then there is no problem except lack of evidence. But the Abrahamic communicating god who is supposed to care about us isn’t like that and we are required to believe that the omniscient omnipotent deity used jumbled messages through imperfect human prophets to tell the Hebrews that genocide was OK, even desirable when subduing the existing inhabitants of the Promised Land, then Jesus gave quite different messages, Mohammed gave more different instructions from God, Sunni and Shia et al. were allowed to coexist in enmity, followed by Cathars, Albigensians, Hussites, Alawi, Ba’hai, Calvinists, Lutherans etc. How can that deity be one who cares about us or what we do? And why no reliable message to the billions of Buddhists, Animists and Hindus?

    My conclusion is what seems to be the inevitable logical one, viz. that there can be no such being as the allegedly caring Creator whom we should worship and obey. (Anyway why did the idea of obeying and worshipping ever get off the ground? That can only be consistent with His being pretty nasty and vengeful).

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @CanSpeccy
  125. Rurik says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Removing women from safe loving homes raising children for the role of US Army Infantry troops in battle is civilizational insanity.

    the role of the military is to protect the women and children, not to send teenage girls to the front lines to protect the cowardly pigs in the banks and congress. Any man who would let a girl do his deadly fighting for him is not only a sniveling coward, but a worm of a human.

    Slimy and without a spine or a conscience.

    I don’t mind the few women who’re inclined by temperament to want to serve in the military or police, for instance. That’s how some of them are, but to encourage girls to fight men with guns and tanks on a battle field, is beyond incomprehensible.

  126. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Are you suggesting that “rough and tumble” is different from and preferable to cooperation? At least to “fix it”?

    no wizard, I’m saying the rough and tumble is preferable to just settling with an intolerable situation, or learning to tolerate it. If cooperation means coordinating your efforts to alleviate an intolerable situation, then I’m all for that. But it sounded to me like the poster was advocating a more fatalistic approach. Sort of like a Stockholm syndrome acceptance of a dire and gloomy cynicism. That’s just not for me. ; )

    • Replies: @helena
  127. Rurik says:

    Putin personally leading a tank charge on the Golan

    but I thought you were talking about Israel

    the Golan Heights most assuredly is not Israel, never has been and never will be. In fact, I’m pretty sure Putin just got done guaranteeing that. ; )

  128. Qasim says:
    @Greasy William

    Islamophobia really pisses me off. All the major religions besides Buddhism deserve to be treated with respect.

    This settles it, you are officially the greatest commenter in the history of the world.

    By the way, what is your beef with Buddhism? Mine is how people go on and on about how scientific it is, when its whole cosmology “karma, nirvana, reincarnation” is completely non-testable! And this whole non-self thing, what exactly is the entity that comes to the conclusion that there is no real entity? I am sure they have come up with some slick answer, but it seems like a big self-refuting contradiction. I think Buddhism gets all this great press (even when some of their monks are pro-ethnic cleansing) because liberals love the fact it is non-theistic.

    But I still would treat them with respect though :)

  129. So…the CIA installed a French president. Marginally more believable than them being responsible for 9/11, chemtrails, UFO abductions, the various Kennedy assassinations, not walking my dog. I like Saker, but if public literature if anything to go by the agency is arguably more worthless than DARPA, costs a helluva lot more and should’ve been dismantled a long time ago.

    Part of me believes Saker is a hack, an armchair “analyst” of the sort who reads all the right blogs and sites, and has an insane talent for collating and summarizing information using all the correct technical terminology.

    But he’s not wrong most of the time and damn fun to read, so there’s that.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  130. Talha says:
    @geokat62

    Dear GeoKat,

    Certainly! Words have their definition in the lexicon after all.

    From Merriam Webster:
    “the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group”

    How could it possibly NOT fit the definition.

    Please bear in mind, if you look at my posts, I will never justify oppressive actions that occur at the hands of Muslims. They will face God for their actions. As for me, I will only be asked to account for my own, and that falls under the imperative:
    “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves…” 4:135

    The Prophet (pbuh) stated, “Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or is being oppressed.” The people asked him, “O Messenger of God, we help the one being oppressed but how do we help an oppressor?” The Prophet said, “By seizing his hand.” (i.e. stopping his oppression)

    I hope that clears it up.

    May God never less us or our families be visited by such horrors.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  131. By the way, what is your beef with Buddhism?

    It is nihilistic garbage. Nothing matters and the goal is extinction. It is affirmatively anti life.

    Buddhists are usually good people who deserve to be treated with respect but Buddhism itself does not.

    In fact, I’m pretty sure Putin just got done guaranteeing that. ; )

    by losing a war against 10,000, poorly armed, fanatics?

    Jew haters put way to much stock in Putin. Not only does he have pretty good relations with Israel (he buys our drones), he leads a backwards shithole of a country that isn’t capable of manufacturing the necessary weaponry to take us down.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Rurik
    , @L.K
  132. marwan says:
    @Rehmat

    so far in 2016 there have been 509 Islamic terrorist attacks in 39 countries . 5300 killed and 7000 injured .

    Here is a few great quotes from a Muslim man . Imam Sheik Abdul Hadi Palazzi :
    “In opposing the will of God and making war on Israel, Arabs are in effect making war on Allah Himself.”

    “Opposition to Israel is an offense against Allah”

    In Sura 5:21 Moses, who is also a Muslim prophet, invites the children of Israel: “My people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has ordained for you.

  133. marwan says:
    @Talha

    The aim of the Islamic terrorists was to kill Christians that were celebrating Easter , the majority of the victims were women and children . Do you deny this ? If you do not deny this , how can you call me a liar ?

    Regardless what that the majority Sunni opinion is on the subject , the fact of the matter is that Islamic terrorists kill women and children daily . on the battlefield or off the battlefield . there have been 509 Islamic terror attacks so far in 2016 with 5300 killed and 7000 wounded . Many were women and children .

    • Replies: @Talha
  134. geokat62 says:
    @Talha

    Certainly! Words have their definition in the lexicon after all.

    Thanks for clarifying, Talha. Glad to see you are opposed to oppressive actions, regardless of who commits them.

    P.S. May the gods inspire us to utter fewer words and to do more good deeds.

  135. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Muslims are here to stay? They will help clean up this mess? Eastern Europe is not Europe.. Russia is Europe.. Turkey is a mess but will be OK if it does this, that, and the other.. Then it will be Europe.. No more questions.. Reading your dribble three words immediately come to my mind — “Google Kalergi Plan”

    Let me help you Jew boy.. you can just click on the link below..

    http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/11/12/europes-refugee-crisis-and-the-kalergi-plan-for-white-genocide/

    So why do you think that Eastern Europe is not Europe? Because it’s poor? Europeans are WHITE, rich and poor.. But the common denominator is WHITE. Let that sink in — Jew boy! You got your panties in a bunch because Victor Orban is not going along with the program? In your mind East Europeans are not Europeans cause they are blocking the Muslim/non-White invasion into Europe..

    Lets watch this play out and see how it ends.. I predict Tribunals in not too distant future.

    • Replies: @marwan
  136. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You’re a fool and your crappy posts are a waste of people’s time. Go jump in a lake.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  137. geokat62 says:
    @Greasy William

    Jew haters…

    Hey, Greasy. Just curious… what in your mind constitutes a “Jew hater”? Does it include someone who is opposed to the brutally oppressive occupation of the Palestinian people? Is that why Gilad Atzmon is considered a “self-hating” Jew?

    • Replies: @marwan
  138. Rurik says:
    @Greasy William

    Not only does he have pretty good relations with Israel (he buys our drones), he leads a backwards shithole of a country that isn’t capable of manufacturing the necessary weaponry to take us down.

    I don’t think he wants to take you down, just rein you in. Libya was the last straw for him. I don’t think he’d even care if you took position of the Golan, he just doesn’t want to lose his harbor on the Med. Or tolerate any more bullshit from psychos like John McCain.

    But since you guys, in your hubris- forced his hand, now it looks like Assad is here to stay, and that means no oil from the Golan for you. ; )

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  139. marwan says:
    @Anonymous

    Let me help you Jew boy.

    The Saker is a Jew now ? Wow this is awesome , you guys are shooting at your own shadows now !!
    In the other article , poster “utu” informed us that he thinks Ron Unz and Steve Sailer are both Zionist paid pawns !!!!! Whats that ALT-R / WN euphemism again ???? “I love it when they eat their own” !!!!

    Reading your dribble three words immediately come to my mind — “Google Kalergi Plan”

    We should google a conspiracy theory ?? No need , as long as you can google it, its gold . Hey got any illuminating ( pun intended ) YouTube , or should we say ” JewTube” videos that might confirm it ?? Never mind n o need to check . If its online ,its accurate !!!!!!!

  140. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    As one born in Austria, I must agree with you about the U.K. never having been “European”, where as Ireland would be kind of European to my mind. I also agree that the U.K was one of the worst things that ever happened to the Europe you speak of. Peace

  141. Essentially “blah blah Jews blah blah, everyone else to blame for our problems but ourselves”. Saker might be born to Eurotrash baby boomers, but he’s definitely American isn’t his blameless mentality.

  142. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Philip Owen

    I used to row for Leicester rowing club in the mid 1970′s. (I worked in Rugby at the time). Leicester was already very Asian, although not a brown face was to be seen at LC matches.

    Things must have changed fast. I graduated from Leicester University in ’64 when Leicester was still an all English city. Brown was then the color chiefly of many of the cars —Rolls Royces (at the time Leicester was said to be the wealthiest town in England — built on the hosiery trade, in which my grandfather was employed. During the post-war (WW1) years, he managed the Wolsey Ltd. factory located in the center of town. Wolsey Ltd. was the oldest textile firm in England, named after Cardinal Wolsey who left his bones at the monastery in Leicester. The factory still stands, with a bas relief of the Cardinal over the main entrance, but it was shut down years ago and converted to low cost housing.)

    At the university, I remember only one African student, who we elected president of the students union mainly for the novelty of it, but also out of sympathy as some rude people had been saying they’d rather vote for a dog. There were also a few rich Arab students who lived at the Grand Hotel and owned flashy cars (everyone else lived in the slummy areas around the university and walked). They (the Arabs) learnt the result of the BBC’s 1962 University Challenge TV quiz, which Leicester won, before the program was broadcast, and made money going round the pubs taking bets on the result.

    My flat mate Bernard, probably a little before your time, rowed for the university. Six foot and a half with a huge beaky nose: a genius for picking up birds. If we went for a drink, he’d always chat up a couple to entertain us, and very kindly always invited me to take my pick — well for him it wasnt’ that serious because his girl-friend came over from Stoke on Trent or somewhere every Saturday afternoon, whereupon they would retire to bed and remain their until late Sunday afternoon.

    As for the soccer crowd, it’s apparently still the same. Rarely a brown face to be seen. So much for integration.

  143. @Philip Owen

    “The Russian fascist idea that the EU’s expansion to the East is a plot against them is laughable delusion about the importance of Russia)”

    Yes, must agree: it would be delusional to see a plot merely in the EU’s eastward expansion….
    However, NATO’s eastward expansion goes way beyond a “plot” to a blindly obvious anti-Russian strategy. Just listen to the Russophobic ranting from General
    Breedlove on down.
    (My favourite bit of NATO B-S is the anti ballistic missile system for Eastern Europe: it’s there to protect Europe from… Iran ! Hilarious !)

  144. Talha says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Wow WoO,

    What a doozy of questions. This is not the forum for such theological discussions, but I will attempt to answer in as much as I can due to the etiquette by which it was asked. Please remove your pre-conceived notions of God (perhaps anthropomorphic, etc.) as you have perhaps gleaned from the other Middle Eastern Abrahamic religions as I attempt to explain.

    He is the Creator of all that is and Omnipotent. He is Eternal and Omniscient. And he cares about us collectively and as individuals, how we fare and how we behave. He can communicate with us and does from time to time.

    Agreed on all points.

    for His entertainment to relieve the boredom of eternity then there is no problem except lack of evidence.

    From our (Muslim) perspective, incorrect. He (I use ‘He’ because in English it is disrespectful to call a conscious being ‘It’ – though in the Arabic, we use ‘hu’ – the gender-less pronoun) created time and space and transcends them both. There is no timeline for God. His Begin-lessness is congruent with His End-lessness – He does not age, thus boredom is inconceivable. He is causing your birth, rewarding you with Heaven or casting you in Hell, presiding over the Fall of Rome (all of them), sending His Messengers (pbut) all in the very now of the eternal moment (if we can give it a name). As the early Muslims used to say, “He was, before there was a ‘when’ and a ‘where’ – and He is now as He ever was.” He created the universe not for His benefit, as He is exalted above need of anything. The Divine Being was already self-aware of the Divine attributes; He originated creation, that His Omnipotence and Attributes be manifested to creation out of His generosity, not out of need. We would not have had a chance to know Him had He not brought us into existence. This is in essence, our chance to grasp this opportunity and interact with Him in order to make ourselves the locus of the manifestation of His mercy.

    Lack of evidence…correct…we live in the material world, it is the only yardstick by which we can measure – there can be no evidence of creation out of nothing (ex-nihilo). That is why there is a word called ‘belief’ – if it (or God) was provable by the senses our ‘belief’ in it would be as reflexive and meaningless as the ‘belief’ that Paris is in France.

    imperfect human prophets to tell the Hebrews that genocide was OK

    His Prophets (pbut) were true to their word. What is reported about them in the earlier books is suspect; we cannot confirm anything unless it stands in the Qur’an. As such, there is no mention of genocide, though there definitely is mention of the punishments of certain cities.

    Jesus gave quite different messages

    Again, that is what the Christians say. We do not confirm or deny anything except by witness of the Qur’an or the Prophet (pbuh). From what we know, our Master Jesus (pbuh) did not come to change anything from the law. He came to call the Children of Israel back to the spirit of the law as they had become legalistic and entranced by their own sophistry to make a mockery of the law. Also, we do not believe he claimed divinity – we consider that a Pauline deviation.

    Mohammed gave more different instructions from God

    Indeed, some different, some not so. This was the last version of the law for thee Son of Adam, cleansing belief of accretions from true transcendent monotheism and granting him a flexible foundations of laws from which he could decipher how to map out his individual life and that of society. The Son of Adam was on the cusp of his last stage, the training wheels had been removed. This was going to be the age when he would discover Newtonian physics and then question his own observation of causality by splitting the atom to find the quantum world of percentages and probabilities – he needed a belief that would withstand this onslaught to his intellect. He was going to communicate across cultures as never before and needed something that would give him a firm foundation of a broad human brotherhood. It is the prerogative of the Creator to require obedience in what He deems fit for His creation, though, in essence the law is for our benefit, not His.

    Sunni and Shia et al. were allowed to coexist in enmity, followed by Cathars, Albigensians, Hussites, Alawi, Ba’hai, Calvinists, Lutherans etc

    All have a choice to observe the various beliefs and make a choice as to what appeals to their intellect. Some deviations are not so bad, and we hope, will be pardoned out of His forgiveness. Some beliefs are absolutely not accepted by Him and He has made those clear from His Messengers (pbut). He is extremely generous towards the mistakes of His servants:
    Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of God. Indeed, God forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” 39:53

    God the Almighty has said: ‘O Son of Adam, as long as you invoke Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O Son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and you then asked forgiveness from Me, I would forgive you. O Son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the Earth, and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as it.” – Tirmidhi

    How can that deity be one who cares about us or what we do?

    Because the success or failure of every soul and its chance to make that choice and strive for it is the whole purpose of creation. Please remember, all of the created universe means nothing to God intrinsically, it ‘requires’ the same non-effort to bring it into existence out of nothing as a grain of sand. It is simply a testing ground, it will be folded up once its use has come to an end and the test-takers are lined up to be graded and rewarded accordingly.

    And why no reliable message to the billions of Buddhists, Animists and Hindus?

    We do not believe that. The Prophet (pbuh) told us that thousands upon thousands of prophets and messengers were sent. We DO NOT believe the Semites have a monopoly on prophethood. So why the different beliefs then? Most likely accretions over time – we can only confirm the truth in their teachings as comports with what the Prophet (pbuh) taught us. For example, my wife studied Art History in university, she was surprised to learn, that for the first few centuries after the preaching of the Buddha, there were no images of him; they explode on the scene after about the 3rd century.

    I think though, you are hinting at something else. You are asking, why would God judge a people for a belief that they never had a chance to hear? For us, there are two opinions on this matter; 1) they will only be judged as to their belief in monotheism as that can be rationally arrived at (not heaven, hell, revealed books, messengers, etc. – that the Divine has to inform us about) and how they treated others, and 2) they will not be judged at all with regards to belief (because even correct monotheism must be Divinely revealed) only their treatment of others. This is for people who truly never heard the message or even those who only heard a horribly distorted message (think of those who have only heard about Islam through ISIS). They have an excuse before God.

    Anyway why did the idea of obeying and worshipping ever get off the ground?

    As I mentioned, He has no need of our worship, but it is obligatory on us due to His having informed us of His expectations on the lips of His Messengers (pbut). With regard to His worship (the duties we owe Him) – we have been informed He will be very generous with His forgiveness on the Day of Judgement to His servants. Yet a man’s reward is commensurate with his striving to earn the good graces of his Creator; levels and gradations of Paradise are not the same.

    The rules that are there with respect to society are for our own benefit, not His. This is where people will trip up very seriously, He will allow people to indict others for the harms that they visited upon them in this life (blood, property, honor, etc.) and there will be no escaping the evidence – so be very careful not to tread upon the rights of others before you die.

    That can only be consistent with His being pretty nasty and vengeful

    “I am as my slave expects Me to be…” – Bukhari

    We always think the best of our Creator and have hope in His mercy and generosity, not our deeds or false assumptions of piety. He has granted us human models to follow; those that outlined how to approach Him and earn His favor. Without that guidance, we would be miserably trying to figure it out ourselves.

    “In accordance with the real nature of things, it is the human that must conform to the Divine and not the Divine to the human.” – Seyyed Hossein Nasr

    Anyway, I reiterate, please take it for what it is worth as Orthodox Sunni belief (with details referenced from Imam Ghazali’s work – Ihya ‘Uloom ud-Din). This is bound to generate responses – I am not trying to start a debate about beliefs – I do not debate about beliefs; I just make clear what I have learned. I was asked a set of questions and responded as best I could. I will not answer any questions about this from anyone as this is not the proper forum to explore this topic further – out of respect for our gracious host Mr. Unz. If you sincerely want to engage further, please try to hook up with me using my website link to my Google profile.

    May God grant us all proper understanding of Him and forgive me for any mistakes I have made.

  145. Talha says:
    @marwan

    Yes, because Christian-majority South Sudan is a veritable heaven-on-earth since they broke apart from the Muslim north.

    http://www.unhcr.org/56fa3e0a9.html

    Please revisit your assumptions.

    Regardless what that the majority Sunni opinion is on the subject…

    ISIS couldn’t have put it better, sir. Welcome to the Reformation…

    Peace.

  146. @Rurik

    I don’t think he’d even care if you took position of the Golan

    I’m really confused right now. You do know that Israel currently occupies the Golan with the exception of a tiny slice that Syria won back in the 73 war, right? Are you thinking of something else maybe?

    Hey, Greasy. Just curious… what in your mind constitutes a “Jew hater”?

    Somebody who hates Jews, usually obsessively. Somebody like The Saker.

    As for whether opposing the existence of Israel makes someone a Jew hater, I would say that is not necessarily the case. Almost all Muslims oppose the existence of Israel but Muslims are rarely Jew haters.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  147. helena says:
    @Rurik

    You’re reading too much into my comment. What interests me is the nature of culture. And the nature of Jewish culture is never studied or analysed, except as a pre-written text by Jewish people. What I’m suggesting is that Jewish cultural influence, Jewish mentality, is discernable at quite subtle levels, such as the different underlying themes of sitcoms in US vs. UK. Jewish culture has a pragmatism to it – the Millionaire Matchmaker, for instance, maintains that the phrase ’till death us do part’ has a symbolic meaning; when the relationship dies, so it is OK to move on to another marriage. I’m not neccessarily trying to judge any culture as better or worse, I just find these differences interesting. Should Mildred have left George? I don’t know, but her putting up with him is funny. On the other hand in Friends, people are constantly getting themselves out of awkward situations; the joke is usually on the other person. Whereas north Europeans typically laugh at, and encourage others to laugh at, themselves and their own predicaments.

  148. marwan says:
    @geokat62

    what in your mind constitutes a “Jew hater

    Perhaps it is someone who chooses to ignore large scale genocide , like Islamic Republic of Sudan killing millions , or Indonesia killing hundreds of thousands , or China killing millions , or Syria killing 300,000 , but instead single out one country that doesn’t do 10% of what the aforementioned bunch have done .

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Max Payne
  149. marwan says:
    @Talha

    Please pay us the intellectual respect to stop lying about these matters and stick to facts.

    In the above quote you called me a liar for mentioning the islamic attack on christians celebrating easter. I posited this question that follows and you chose to evade the question . Do you care to answer the question now ??

    The aim of the Islamic terrorists was to kill Christians that were celebrating Easter , the majority of the victims were women and children . Do you deny this ? If you do not deny this , how can you call me a liar ?

    • Replies: @Talha
  150. marwan says:
    @Talha

    Yes, because Christian-majority South Sudan is a veritable heaven-on-earth since they broke apart from the Muslim north.

    Well they haven’t killed millions of people like The Islamic Republic of Sudan has and they haven’t yet set up a militia like the Janjaweed , tasked with systematic rape and ethnic cleansing . By the way The Islamic Republic of Sudan was not content to just genocide the black Christians in the south . They also commit genocide on the black muslims in Darfur . They have the idea to arabize the black population thru rape .

    By the way , got any feelings on the Sudanese and the Janjaweed ?? Not real muslims eh ??
    Gee Wiz no one is a real muslim , yet muslims like to claim 1.7 billion .

  151. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    My conclusion is what seems to be the inevitable logical one, viz. that there can be no such being as the allegedly caring Creator whom we should worship and obey.

    Wiz, you miss the point. The literal truth of religion is irrelevant. To discuss whether belief in God is true is like discussing whether the gall bladder or the coccyx is true. As with the gall bladder, the question to ask about religion is what is its function? Religion is universal to humanity. Those who deny the existence of God, believe not in nothing, but, as GK Chesterton remarked, in absolutely anything, e.g., Vegetarianism, Communism, Political Correctness, Liberalism, etc.

    The best account of the religious impulse that I am aware of is Francis Fukuyama’s “The Origin of Political Order,” an outstandingly significant and dangerous book — dangerous in that it reveals the means by which the already too powerful state can more effectively control, enslave or genocide the people.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  152. joe webb says:
    @Talha

    my cousin is pentecostal and he assures me that we all get a mansion to live in in heaven. I asked him if we get cleaning ladies, and are they Negroes, or what? He did not know.

    I also asked him if all the mansions were the same, and if so, how could one possess any bragging rights?

    And do we have sex in heaven?….like thos 70 alleged virgins…alleged virgin I mean, is there proof? And terrorists boom and boom and splatter guts all over the place, and do they reassemble themselves in heaven, with no mess to clean up. And their victims, do they get to take revenge and do we have Nietzsche’s eternal return, boom, mess, reassemble in heaven, boom , do it again and again, eternal entertainment.

    and what about race? are there races still there in heaven and are some smart and some dumb?

    And why would God make such mischief, in heaven as it is on earth?

    Actually the whole thing is absurd.

    When you are dead, you are dead and what you leave behind is some good, or a lot of nothing, or bad. Take your pick. If you are missed….that means that you lived a good life.

    All these childish fairy tales….silly boys and sillier girls.

    Joe Webb

  153. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Do not underestimate the German People. For Germany, nothing changes. Germany believed she didn’t need the old traditions before. But now she knows that she does! We’ll be as mighty again as we ever were! It’ll take time, but the ideals will be the same. When the drums beat and the bands play, and our flags wave again, and Grossdeutschland is united once more, then we’ll march together to the ends of the earth! One People. One Germany. One Leader!

  154. Eckbach says:
    @Anonymous

    One ashen grey/brown race of slaves with lifeless eyes, serving the Synagogue of Satan.

  155. L.K says:
    @Greasy William

    Greasy, off his meds again, goes:
    ‘by losing a war against 10,000, poorly armed, fanatics?

    Jew haters put way to much stock in Putin. Not only does he have pretty good relations with Israel (he buys our drones), he leads a backwards shithole of a country that isn’t capable of manufacturing the necessary weaponry to take us down.”

    Drinking the kool-aid again, ain’t u, old boy?

    See, greasy, you have got things mixed up, as usual, & ain’t that just a little sad… you have confused Putin and Russia with… israel.
    Putin never lost a war, u just made that up, as the sad little liar you are known to be… but then, it is probably in the blood…
    But in 2014, while your Daesh allies were rampaging in Iraq, distracting the world, the highly overated IOF(israeli occupation forces) launched a campaign against Gaza and despite massive numerical and firepower superiority were unable to defeat a few thousand lightly armed palestinian militia, who this time around demonstrated they r learning to fight the idf sissies, inflicting over 530 casualties on them. And that is bc the israeli sissies never dared go deep into gaza as intel predicted thousands of casualties if they did. In fact idf sissies have not won any wars since 73.

    Lucky for u, jewish supremacists, Russia is friendly towards the artificial zio ghetto entity.
    A war with Russia would cause a speedy demise to this cancer known as israel.

    Israels weakness and cowardice is the reason why you as*holes need the american dummies and waahabi mercenaries to fight your wars for you, such as in Iraq and Syria.

  156. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    May God bless you for always keeping me on my toes. It is late, but here goes…

    If you’re one of those rare men who could care less if your grandchildren have no physical resemblance to you whatsoever, then I suppose I should say kudos, you’ve thwarted a powerful genetic instinct

    Sure it would be nice to have a son-in-law that shares my same cultural heritage. But it is more important that he is an upright man with good character who will treat my daughter well and raise a good family with high morals and character. I would never surrender her to some idiot Pakistani that behaves like those knaves you see in the Paki-thug videos – Lord have mercy.

    Surely that is a touch hyperbolic, no?

    Indeed, let me clarify…please keep in mind that the Prophets (pbut) were sent to carry out the spiritual cleansing of mankind. There is nothing wrong with an appreciation and love for one’s heritage or a feeling to protect them, as in the examples you outlined. What is wrong is boastfulness – that is vanity, that is arrogance – it is a spiritual disease and must be excised from one’s soul. Bear in mind that the same God that created you and me out of nothing also chose the locus for our birth; you could have just as easily been born to an Eskimo family or a tribe of African pygmies – that was not your choice. If one finds that one has been born into a people who have noble, admirable traits and history; the spiritually daft reaction is to be arrogant about something one had no volition in – rather, one should be appreciative and grateful to God – and make it a means for one’s approach to Him – not distancing.

    Like you, I also have very little patience for those ultra-nationalists who run around pretending to be the best of the best and better than you and yours because ‘our ancestors did this or that’.

    This is what I’m talking about – so we agree.

    taking the Iberian peninsula by force of sword

    As I have mentioned in previous posts. I do not feel the need to apologize for Muslim conquests that dismantled any empire, kingdom, etc. nor do I feel anybody needs to apologize for the inverse of such actions. Those were different times. If you didn’t have an explicit treaty with some other sovereign, you were on permanent war-footing; you could expect to be attacked without notice and (wisely) conducted policy in that way. The only reason the kingdoms of that peninsula did not attack North Africa first was either; they didn’t have the logistics for a navy or felt it was not worth the effort. I guarantee you it was not due to a regard for Berber autonomy. Every other sovereign was either an immediate threat or a potential threat. The reason we know this to be the case is that, once the Muslims were kicked out, Portugal and Spain built navies, the likes of which hadn’t been seen since Roman times. The fearsome sails of the Portugese Navy and Spanish Armada exploded on the world and brought down the Aztecs, Mayans, and a host of other local kingdoms from the Phillipines to the Caribbean. The English may have been speaking Spanish or French too if their navies hadn’t been defeated at Trafalgar. Why didn’t they stay in Iberia? Simple, they had a navy, they used it. To place our assumptions of current prevailing international law upon that time is anachronistic. If Morocco was to try to invade Spain now, this would be in violation to the covenants that they are signatory to and be morally wrong – and vice versa.

    My only concern is, how was the population treated. And from the books of history that I have read and can recommend, like this one:

    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8280.html

    It is clear that the population was generally treated well by their occupiers (not necessarily of the same social status or mobility); barring certain incidents and flare ups like the Grenada Massacre of 1066 or the initial years of the Almohad takeover, etc. If you have evidence to the contrary from a reliable source, please present it.

    if the British decided to return to Pakistan and India, and demanded areas be set up for British peoples to settle, and adjustments made to the culture to accommodate alcohol consumption and brothels and assorted Western cultural hegemony, I wonder how tolerant Talha and the rest of Pakistan would be, eh?

    First of all, we both agree that letting them in is the prerogative of the Pakistanis, correct? So let’s assume that these Brits actually have some benefit to provide to Pakistan and come unarmed and wish to settle there and the Pakistanis accept them. In that case, from what I can see in the medieval literature, there is no real bar for them from setting up semi-autonomous settlements as long as they adhere to the rules of protected citizenry (dhimmi). Rules of Shariah do not apply to non-Muslims, especially in their areas. The Muslim view is, that the rules of Islam are for the benefit of society; if you want to take your people to hell in a hand-basket with liquor and brothels, your choice – in fact the consequence of such choices make the truth of Islam manifest. Don’t know if you’ve heard of the famous ‘heera mandi’ area in Punjab – trust me, the oldest profession operates even in Muslim countries, even as an ‘open secret’. The rulings may be different in a Muslim area, I would have to ask a qualified scholar as I cannot find that detail. They have the right to have their own judicial system and only have to defer to a Shariah court if they have a dealing with a Muslim. I am no expert in current Pakistani citizenship rules so I am not sure of the technical details of how the Brits would fit in – I assume much like the current Christians. But I do know of the people of the Kalasha Valley (called Kafiristan by the Muslims) who are relatively free and left to their own design without much outside interference – they are actually much like the Yazidi and the Hanafi school of jurisprudence – which predominates in Pakistan – finds no problem with having them as covenanted citizens. Here is a fascinating look at their culture and history:

    https://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/0472097830-01.pdf

    They don’t have a ton of opportunities and not much upward social mobility without converting, but they are free to define their culture as they like.

    Any way – time for bed.

    May God bless you and yours.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  157. 5371 says:
    @Philip Owen

    [ I live a boring life.]

    Yes, I didn’t think you became such an outlandish liar from a surplus of excitement.

  158. 5371 says:
    @Talha

    Your interlocutor just read a cribsheet for the hasbara graveyard shift, he doesn’t even know what continent Sudan is on.

  159. @helena

    This exchange reminds me of learning how standing (as I suppose not dumb or unable to make a go of earning a good living for a family) in the Jewish community was a vital factor for lots of Jews who weren’t very smart or weren’t yet established in business or profession. It was brought home to me most forcefully when I was asked to help a not specially successful Jewish jeweller who had been accused of an attempted insurance scam involving jewels imported from or at least allegedly bought in Hong Kong. I rang a senior policeman to see if he could help resolve some puzzling questions and he said frankly and confidently that he thought it was all about shame and disgrace and standing in the Jewish community (obviously guilty I think was being conveyed even if it ended up only being dealt with as a failed insurance claim).

    Then there was the young lawyer for lots of rich Jews – not their main lawyer I guess – who was found to have been showing tiny Madoff buds when his murdered body was found in a Cambodian hotel room. Typical case of someone pushing too hard and far to prove he wasn’t as second rate and dumb as was the truth.

    These sad stories would fit with the 1898 quote of a Pole someone recently posted which picked on the sad truth that the great (if somewhat obscurantist) tradition of Talmudic scholarship which prepared clever post Enlightenment Jews (by culture and genetic selection) for success in the law and academe was a disaster for the (relatively) dumb, most likely illiterate and certainly unrefined Jew who sought to emulate the style of the clever and learned. I can see how Eastern European peasants would often have loathed them. Very sad, as the Jews I know in England, for example (with one exception come to think of it) are the best English gentlefolk such as to revivify the memory of the “English gentleman” with fresh applause. The exception was just one who tried too hard. I never heard him referred to as Jewish but he was like any rather unimpressive person who tries to be omnipresent and ever helpful craving approbation of his organising efforts and willingness to handle the boring detail. Same syndrome perhaps as those I referred to above who were seeking to bolster their standing in the Jewish community.

    • Replies: @helena
  160. @Parbes

    Far be it from me to insist on disputing your implicit claim to a high enough level of intellect to allow you to judge confidently that someone is a fool. But please satisfy my curiosity. Did you get my Humpty Dumpty reference? Much more a matter of culture than intellect though of course there would be a correlation on UR.

    • Replies: @Parbes
  161. @Parbes

    You combine rudeness with recklessness and I’m afraid sheer ignorance. Far from Chechnya being like Florida, Alaska or Hawaii – though you seem to realise that they share a certain faint element historically of unAmericanness that is not really in point – it is the Chechen Republic and was or was a major part of one of the Soviet Socialist Republics which sought total independence – like Georgia, Ukraine etc – when the Soviet Union disintegrated. You should be aware that Soviet Republics were not like states of the USA – so different in fact that Ukraine and Byelorussia, which were both like Chechnya Soviet republics, were made full members of the United Nations in 1945. So Chechens, not surprisingly, saw and see themselves as a nation. It’s a while since Hawaiians felt that.

    In any case your attempt at trivial pedantry missed the point he was trying to make which was that Muslim polities are badly run, or something like that.

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Parbes
    , @iffen
  162. @Talha

    What an impressively logical and eloquent reply. Thank you. I only wish I could have a couple of hours in which to respectfully but insistently cross examine you to bring to the fore your essential premises which I would say are all based on faith derived from something or someone you have chosen to treat as authority even in your mature years, and not demonstrable as truths in the way that the truth or falsity of propositions in physics or other hard sciences – or even the softer sciences like psychology or economics – are tested and proved.

    That’s all fine by me up to the point where any person of faith seeks to impose on me their idea of morality based on their faith or allegedly so. Catholics and Evangelicals can be just as bad as they seek to punish people who undergo or perform abortions based on nothing but a theologically or dogmatically derived view of a two cell organism being a human being that should be protected.

    • Replies: @Talha
  163. @Talha

    And please: your website URL because I have not been able to find it by Googling?????

  164. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @WorkingClass

    I was born on a Navajo Indian Reservation. My country also has been stolen. I also am angry.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @RadicalCenter
  165. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Blah. This is divisive among Europeans. “…….but then they included Spain,Italy,Portugal and Greece, ………painful as it was bla bla bla. Listen I have done much research, all countries in Europe share a same culture and faith. I came here after reading an article on Breitbart……what a mistake. My first article too.

  166. outstanding breakdown. thanks op.

  167. geokat62 says:
    @marwan

    Perhaps it is someone who chooses to ignore large scale genocide…

    I prefer GW’s response. It’s more honest, unlike yours.

  168. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Yes, Trump has already done some very very wonderfull things in terms of destroying the SYSTEM..however, we shouldn’t be giving a blank check to Donald to bomb Iran and to keep importing Asian legal immigrants. This requires an official opposition now to keep Trump honest.

    Trump’s immigration policy is at best a modest restrictionist policy…What is needed is mass expulsions of all the various nonwhite legal immigrant fifth columns. The “good” Asian legal immigrants are enthusiastically voting us into a racial minority on Nov 8 2016….And these are the kind of nonwhite legal immigrants that Donald is enamoured of.

  169. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You err, wizard. The Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic did not have the same status as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic or the Belorussian Soviet Socialist Republic. Unlike them, it was not a constituent republic of the USSR, but only an administrative-territorial division of another constituent republic, the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  170. @5371

    If you are right, as I presume, I thank you. It only slightly affects my point about Parbe’s choleric and offensive criticism of another commenter because clearly none of the US states are comparable to the Chechen Republic as aspirant independent countries and it misses the original point. That was about the quality of governance in Muslim polities and it is not dealt with by arguing legal niceties about sovereignty.

    A better parallel would have been Scotland which is I think no more or less independent of the UK than Chechnya is of Russia or the USSR. Supposing someone referred to the quality of government in countries with a substantial ethnic Scottish influence and cited Canada, New Zealand and Scotland, would anyone explode with the indignant pedantry of the half educated auto didact? I don’t think so – though one couldn’t be sure about Parbe.

  171. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    You do us all a service with your sincere and eloquent efforts to explain Islam.

    God bless

  172. @CanSpeccy

    With respect it is you that missed the point that I was interested in.

    Precise words are de rigeur so I presume to correct your formulation on one narrow point that you put as if it refutes some argument or proposition of mine.

    “To discuss whether belief in god is true” is NOT like discussing “whether the gall bladder or coccyx is true” if you mean by “belief in god is true” “belief in the existence of an Abrahamic god is correct” which was what I was suggesting was wrong. I was suggesting that because the Abrahamic God has incompatible features when you put together the knowledge of Himself that he appears to have allowed to be delivered by his messengers.

    Chesterton was witty but superficial and no guide to what the most intelligent and precise thinkers amongst non-theists are like in the 21st century (or in the world of Lucretius for that matter). Rather than Fukuyama I would look to evolutionary psychology and sociology to explain the very strong religious instinct in people. One relevant trait in times of assault by surplus young Muslim males may have been the tendency of tribes to survive and multiply if they were held together in war by an inherited tendency to seek and believe in the tribal religion.

  173. Rurik says:
    @helena

    What I’m suggesting is that Jewish cultural influence, Jewish mentality, is discernable at quite subtle levels, such as the different underlying themes of sitcoms in US vs. UK.

    OK, but are you suggesting that British sitcoms are not as influenced by Jews as the US versions are? I’d be surprised to hear that. Are Jews not as pervasive in British media as they are in the US? Does not Rupert Murdoch also own or control much of British media? Is the rest owned and controlled by Gentiles? This would shock me.

    as to the discernible differences between Jewish cultural influence vs. Western Europeans, that’s pretty much a stereotypical meme by now. Jews tend to be a little more crass in their humor than the more reserved Euros, me thinks. Situational humor is usually more risqué and often even offensive, perhaps at times for the sake of it. But then it does often ‘work’. Think Two and a Half Men for instance, vs. … well, I honestly don’t know of any sitcoms that aren’t produced by Jews today. So I’m at a loss. But if there were any, they’d probably be less scatological and deal less with overt sexual situations. Like what we had in the fifties. More boring perhaps, but less offensive.

    I’m not sure if that’s what you’re talking about tho.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @helena
  174. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Dear Talha,

    Sure it would be nice to have a son-in-law that shares my same cultural heritage.

    It’s just simple human nature. Your son-in-law is going to become part of your family, and his family is going to become part of yours. If there were extreme differences between your family and his, it would likely bring strife, of some kind or another.

    As you can imagine, if your son-in-law were a Westerner and secular in his spiritual views in the extreme, to the point of proselytizing and advocating atheism, it could make for some interesting family dinners, no?

    I hear from other fathers in the US, not so much a desire for their daughters to marry a white or black man, depending on what they themselves are, but just they whomever they marry not be hostile to them. If they’re white, they don’t want their daughters to marry a man who hates white people. (they are legion) And the same is true if they’re black, they don’t want their daughters to marry a man who has issues with blacks and black culture and black American values. Women tend to accept a value system of their husbands, not always, but generally. And for most Western peoples, the values and way of life of Islam are not just alien, but anathema to our way of life based on freedom and women’s rights and wanton heresy, often just for the sake of it.

    Western people often mock societal (especially religious) norms and ridicule edicts from on high, especially from the clouds. There is a rift that is wide between Islam and American values of freedom for freedom’s sake, and I don’t know if it is easily bridged.

    It is clear that the population was generally treated well by their occupiers (not necessarily of the same social status or mobility); … …. If you have evidence to the contrary from a reliable source, please present it.

    I don’t need evidence to the contrary, your first sentence is all the evidence I require to point out that a people being occupied and “treated well” by their occupiers is all the reason enough in the world to kill every last one of the occupiers and put their heads on a pike- as a warning to any and all who would presume to occupy my people. And I’m not just talking about African Muslims occupying (and dominating and oppressing and virtually enslaving by definition) the people of Spain, but any who would presume to be our overlords. This is why I condemn those who would try to resurrect the reputation of the Nazis, because were I a Slav, I’d have wanted and intended to kill every last one of them. Same goes for the Irish feelings towards the British, who may have felt that they were treating the Irish well, even if they didn’t have the same social status, never the less, I wouldn’t begrudge the Irish the will to see the English troops removed, one way or the other.

    One of my main mantras is self determination. For all peoples. And any who would trounce on that iron imperative, deserves what they get, IMHO.

    I am no expert in current Pakistani citizenship rules so I am not sure of the technical details of how the Brits would fit in – I assume much like the current Christians.

    are Christians allowed to mass immigrate into Pakistan? Or any Muslim country?

    Does Pakistan have its doors open to the millions of refugees coming out of Syria and all the war torn countries of Africa?

    If not, then by what right do they demand that the West commit cultural, spiritual and ethnic suicide?

    May the Gods grant you peace always

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Talha
  175. Rurik says:
    @Greasy William

    Israel currently occupies the Golan

    illegally

    you see Greasy, that is why this whole charade with ISIS. Because Israel wants to steal and take possession of the Golan for themselves, but it belongs to Syria. And as long as Syria is an intact country recognized by the UN and all other countries, then Israel can’t really steal it for themselves. So they sit there, with their oil deals and geologists and assorted scumfucks, trying to figure out how to steal the land and its resources for themselves. Isn’t that something? They foment these wars in order to destroy stable governments and get hundreds of thousands of men, women and children slaughtered and maimed and displaced, all so they can steal other people’s property.

    What kind of people feel entitled to just steal their neighbors property?

    What kind of people do such things Greasy?

  176. helena says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I’m not entirely sure what is the crux of your comment; I think your brow may be a little higher than mine. But in the spirit of convivial interlocution, I’ll offer this: on one of Steve Pinker’s youtube talks about IQ to some Jewish society, he said that his parents’ generation were mostly artisans, tailors and other. And that generation did not aspire for their children to go into academia; rather they preferred them to continue the family businesses. Hope that doesn’t seem too random by way of response. (pbuy)

  177. Big Bill says:

    We need a new Potsdam Conference. At Potsdam, Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt agreed that (1) all German ethnic civilians should be expelled from Europe based on their ethnicity alone, and (2) German ethnic civilians could be used as slave labor for years after WWII.

    15 million were forced out on the road, men, women, and children. Their property was confiscated. Some 2 million were starved or killed. Many of the women and girls were raped.

    If our great leaders had the courage to ethnically cleanse Europe of “innocent” German civilians all across Europe, surely we can muster the courage to do the same with “innocent” Muslim civilians all across Europe, too.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @iffen
  178. Rurik says:

    http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2016/03/30/458334/Syria-nonstarter-Josh-Earnest/

    the US government is so blatantly and abjectly The Bitch of Israel, that it has the temerity to tell the Syrian people who can and can’t be in their government.

    and it’s all so Israel can steal Syrian oil-rich land; the Golan Heights

    (and of course Turkey wants to steal some too)

    that’s why millions of people have been tortured and murdered, their homes and villages bombed into smoking ruins. The US government sends arms and funding and provides logistical support for head-slicing sub-human cannibals and two-legged dogs who burn people alive and enslave young girls to horrors unimaginable, all so Israel can steal other people’s property, and some uber-scumfucks on the world’s stage, like Cheney and Woolsey and Murdock and other human worms can scrounge a few more shekels from the tragic and terrible horrors visited upon these poor people.

    we are witness in our time to pure evil. Satanic evil unleashed. Men who do Satan’s work for evil reasons of greed and insatiable avarice. Children die horrible deaths so that men with rotten souls can get richer. Entire counties are destroyed so that power-crazed scum can steal and plunder. All in America’s name. All with our government’s blessings.

    America is under the thrall of pure evil. God help us all.

    • Replies: @5371
  179. Bill says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    marwan: purveyor of worthwhile conversation

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  180. 5371 says:
    @Rurik

    The ludicrously named Josh Earnest seems to have missed the fact that the US proxies lost the war in Syria. You don’t get to rewrite the ending of a war at the conference table.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  181. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I don’t give a damn about your stupid contrived “references”, you pretentious buffoon.

  182. Rurik says:
    @5371

    occasionally I like to peruse other forums for different perspectives

    this one has a lot of Russophiles

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?/topic/270749-russia-withdrawing-forces-from-syria/page-3

    good article about half way down

  183. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dear WoO,

    Indeed, the question of authority is of paramount.

    You can reach me here:

    https://plus.google.com/u/0/109750861504888023138

    Just a couple of things though:
    1) I do NOT debate theology, I can answer questions to the best of my ability
    2) I cannot possibly prove the premise of Islam on anything along the lines of something like a reproducible laboratory experiment or a mathematical equation. If that is what you are looking for, you’ll be disappointed – if I could, people would have no choice but to become Muslim. I can only demonstrate that there is nothing illogical in its core beliefs nor in the assumptions of the authority of its primary sources.

    As for the others who have or will respond. Please do not expect a response (except you, Rurik – you are welcome). As I stated, this is not the proper forum. You can contact me directly through my Google profile if you wish to discuss sincerely – keeping the above two points in mind.

    May God grant us all guidance.

  184. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Hah hah hah, the pretentious neocon buffoon makes a complete FOOL of himself, LOL. And meanwhile calling ME ignorant – talk about the pot calling the kettle black! “5371″ gave the best possible answer to you, so I don’t need to add anything. Also you’re exhibit A again, for how neocon lowlifes are the main international backers of Chechen separatism (together with Saudi buddies, of course…)

    Oh and by the way – not only are you a buffoon, but in addition, it seems you can’t read properly either: “your attempt at trivial pedantry missed the point he was trying to make which was that Muslim polities are badly run”… Go back and reread and try to understand (if you can!) what I said in my previous post about “off-topic subconscious promotion of anti-Russian separatism”, neocon dork-boy…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  185. Jason Liu says:

    Yes, yes.

    You people write hundreds of articles describing the problem, yet none describing the solution.

    What are you going to do about it?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  186. Talha says:
    @marwan

    I think you missed my point. It was not that the attack did not occur – that is a matter of fact.

    You keep calling it:

    the islamic attack on christians celebrating easter

    I simply pointed, using sources that it is as Islamic as adultery or drinking wine.

    So please stop lying by calling it ‘islamic’.

    As for your other claims; no doubt, some Muslim governments have done horrible things in the past and continue to do so. The architects of such policies will be held to account on the Day of Judgement if they do not meet justice in this world.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Max Payne
    , @Wizard of Oz
  187. joe webb says:

    god, pardon me, do we need all this theology? Precisely, this shouldering aside of reality based political thinking by the nice muslims here is exactly and purely, propaganda.

    O so sweet and friendly. We had a term for this type of propaganda back in the 60s and 70s…love bombing. The hare krishnas would love bomb their victims to hijack their minds and glom onto them.

    Rationality takes second or third place to love bombing for at-risk individuals.

    This is a secular type of list. Religion is a trap. Only the most abstract aspects of religion should be addressed, like its subversive aspects…God, even if nobody else, loves you and His holy name is….peace and love be with you, glory to the Holy of Holies, and if you insult him you should be killed.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Talha
  188. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik: “This is why I condemn those who would try to resurrect the reputation of the Nazis, because were I a Slav, I’d have wanted and intended to kill every last one of them.”

    Hmmm… I’m sorry to hear you condemn moi, my friend, I’m hurt… hahaha

    But really Rurik, first of all, context, my man, context; NS racism is blown out of proportion by the victors propaganda and taken out of context. If one wants to be honest about it, one needs to look at it in its appropriate time frame, 1930s-40s, not with the mindset of a western man in the 21st century. Churchill is on record saying that the anglo-saxon pest “race” was the best in the world.
    One might object by saying he(or other brits) did not act on it while the NS did. That is bull.
    On what was based the notion of the British Empire?
    On the other hand, the NS did NOT go to war with Poland bc of some racist bs nonsense, but for very real geopolitical issues. Basically Germany had part of its lands and people stolen and East Prussia was severed from the rest of the country. Take a look at the map of Europe 1914 and 1923.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zp3ncdm

    The German offer was more than reasonable as it relinquished most german territories grabbed by Poland in return for Danzig and a corridor linking to East Prussia.

    As for the Soviet Union, again the war had nothing to do with a german race supremacist notion or even empire. At that point in the war, and given the way the Soviet regime was acting towards it, Germany was left with no choice but to strike the soviets preemptively.

    Btw, do u remember I once told you the present Russian authorities just won’t let go of the BS propaganda myths about the red army ‘liberating’ Eastern Europe, the baltics, etc, and that the myths of the so called great patriotic war are too important to be abandoned and replaced for the factual truth?
    Take a look at this article from RT:
    “Ambassador blasts new Polish campaign against WWII Red Army monuments”

    https://www.rt.com/politics/337902-ambassador-blasts-polish-campaign-against/

    Take care.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
  189. Rurik says:

    Well Joe, I for one appreciate the vast knowledge of some our posters here. We don’t have to agree with it all, to at least try to get a handle on some of their ‘truths’, as they see them. I have a very limited knowledge of Islam, and the Quran. It is the religion of over a billion people, and increasingly they are effecting our world. Perhaps almost exclusively because of that other religion who they’ve been fighting with for centuries.

    I’d have preferred if they could have kept all that hate and religion and hostility in the Middle East where it belongs, but because of the greed and avarice and treachery of some of our own citizens, (pres. Wilson for instance), now it’s here, in my back yard. I may as well do what I can to understand it. Why not?

    but

    His holy name is….peace and love be with you, glory to the Holy of Holies, and if you insult him you should be killed.

    it is hard to argue with the irony of this sentiment ; )

  190. Talha says:
    @joe webb

    pardon me, do we need all this theology?

    We most certainly do not. Which is precisely why I answered the very specific questions that I was asked and let people know to move the discussion elsewhere.

    This is a secular type of list. Religion is a trap.

    So you say…would you mind removing religious motivations and questions of religious authority from the analysis of the following European conflicts (which led to a total population loss of an estimated 20%): Hugenots Wars, Eighty Year’s War, Thirty Year’s War

    Heck, even the 100 Year’s War took on a religious bent once Joan de Arc comes on the scene.

    Only the most abstract aspects of religion should be addressed

    I would think that someone interested in analyzing the motivations of the Muslims (so often on one’s TV screen nowadays) from any sort of objective (even scientific) perspective would want to know a little in regards to the science of their jurisprudence (NOT theology) by which these people arrive at the legitimacy (or not) of their actions and insights into the crisis of religious authority that is pervading the Muslim world. One can dismiss any of my contributions to the forum. I already know that many will do this – which is why I cite solid sources for the claims I put forth for those reading with an open intellect. You can dismiss with ad hominem attacks of course – but opinions are like belly buttons…

    May God preserve you and yours.

  191. DaveE says:

    Did ANYONE really ever consider themselves “European”? I lived in Britain and spent time in Germany and I can tell you, most of the people I knew in those two countries would get violent if you called them “Europeans.”

    Even worse to utter the words “EU.” But these are very smart people who know darn well the “AngloZionist” (as you call it) agenda to destroy them, culturally.

    Think of the EU as an accounting trick and “Europe” as a geography lesson for Bart Simpson and I think you know all there is to know.

    As for the immigrants….. that one’s a little tougher to fix.

  192. Max Payne says:
    @marwan

    Come on man.

    Are you comparing Israel, a first world Western nation, to the backwaters that are Sudan….Indonesia….Syria…China? Really? Is this, in your eyes, a fair and equal comparison? Because those countries get treated like shit in the international community….nothing compared to how Israel gets treated.

  193. Sam Shama says:
    @helena

    Some observations.

    An interesting topic – contrasts between English humour and,er… well, humor delivered with a variant of English as a medium.

    But really I falter, attempting wit at the moment – scant attention paid to subtlety – and therein lies the quintessential difference. English humour [and comedy by extension] is typically driven by the light touch of sarcasm and irony, often directed at one’s own self, and to appreciate it requires something of a trained ear and for the speaker, a dead-pan delivery of the genuine article.

    Quite at risk of sounding rather defensive, Helena, I submit that ‘Jewish humor’ as practised in America is merely a product that sells well to the target audience, whose history and culture had long past dispensed with the devices of subtlety and double entendre. Mostly. [and that, I beseech you, is not a snobbish remark at all..... just stating facts.]

    Hitch for instance, laid the blame of his own relative inability at self-deprecation, entirely to the late discovery of his Jewish roots. [sardonic smile followed by chortles!] As a contrast, he once regaled his audience with the story of an encounter with the late Norman St. John-Stevas – politician and barrister who previously failed to find vocation as cardinal – upon being complimented on the colour of his rather well worn cardigan, remarked [with stuttered Oxbridge delivery] ” I call it the crushed cardinal!”. It caused very different reactions on the mixed audience of Brits and Americans.

    Well there it is. Also Peter Sellers. Wasn’t he Jewish? [although if memory serves. he wasn't too keen on disclosing that detail]

    • Replies: @helena
  194. Max Payne says:
    @Talha

    Don’t you understand Talha… there is a difference between terrorism (such as that practiced by the Unabomber in the past, or by the West in intimidating populations through sheer military might (Iraq, Libya, Syria, Palestine, etc.)) and ISLAMIC terrorism(tm), which is a wholly separate brand of terrorism, it may look and sound the same as regular terrorism (albeit underwhelming in firepower compared to its bigger brother , regular terrorism, which can rain 2000 lb bombs from the sky on innocents, as opposed to the 35kg bombs Islamic Terrorism can muster) but don’t be fooled by its surface designs.

    Only an astute observer can tell you the difference, preferably a think-tank analyst from such wonderful institutes as the Project for the New American Century.

  195. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    Always a pleasure to banter with you.

    if your son-in-law were a Westerner and secular in his spiritual views in the extreme, to the point of proselytizing and advocating atheism

    Not likely, Muslim women can only marry Muslim men – by consensus.

    Western people often mock societal (especially religious) norms and ridicule edicts from on high, especially from the clouds.

    Indeed they do, but unfortunately, they have removed the ground of being from under their own feet. Too much Voltaire, not enough Kierkegaard. There are things to take seriously, otherwise one is whistling past his own grave.

    “God is exalted above all need, while you are the destitute. And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you.” 47:38

    In the true nature of the world – God always has the last say – no matter what our zealous, new-found anthropocentrism tells us.

    There is a rift that is wide between Islam and American values of freedom for freedom’s sake, and I don’t know if it is easily bridged.

    It would seem that way at first glance, but that is due to the level of ignorant zealotry that is pervading the Muslim world right now. From what I have read from the relied upon books of Orthodox Sunni jurisprudence, there was quite a leeway in what thoughts one could express publicly. For instance, it is know that Imam Zamakhshari (may God have mercy on him) held heterodox Mu’tazilite views, but his brilliant exegesis in one of the most referenced works in the Qur’anic sciences. Even historically, John of Damascus wrote a polemic work against Islam (The Heresy of the Ishmaelites) smack dab in the middle of the Ummayyad Caliphate. No one went after him, he was making an academic criticism – we say, “bring it”. As one contemporary Sunni scholar proposed; that this was due to the Muslim world being strong at that time so their thought process was more expansive, because they didn’t feel an existential threat – but since colonialism, Muslims have become weak, defensive and far more provincial in their thought patterns. I believe there is a lot of truth to that. In fact, the demographic reality of European societies seems to have a very good parallel in the views they are expressing now versus decades ago. But there is a limit of course as you know – if one wants Islam to concede the right for them to insult the Prophet (pbuh) or revile God or such publicly (in Islamic lands) – it’s not going to happen.

    One of my main mantras is self determination. For all peoples.

    You have a principle – you stick with it – and apply it across the board. That is commendable, because hypocrites are to be abhorred.

    Does Pakistan have its doors open to the millions of refugees coming out of Syria and all the war torn countries of Africa?

    They don’t – they are already inundated with refugees from Afghanistan.

    by what right do they demand that the West commit cultural, spiritual and ethnic suicide?

    No right at all – the fleeing Muslim masses are at the mercy of God and at the kindness and generosity of the Europeans letting them in – and they should behave thusly.

    May God preserve you and yours.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Rurik
  196. @Jason Liu

    Jason Liu, did you ever pour salt on a slug?

    That’s what telling the truth does to a certain category of evil-doers.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  197. […] Is it already too late for Europe? […]

  198. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, I too can feel what you write. Too, your feelings toward the zionist house of cards and corruption that is laughingly called a “Union” I reciprocate.

    I do wonder whether it was necessary to insert Pompidou to ensure the “Treaty of Elysee 1963″ was ratified.

  199. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Wow Talha,

    “In the true nature of the world – God always has the last say – no matter what our zealous, new-found anthropocentrism tells us.”

    Perhaps that could have been stated a little less zealously:)

    Pardon the frankness in that comment, it came out in a tone I did not intend.

  200. @Rurik

    Occasionally blog commenters write confidently of Rupert Murdoch as Jewish. As there is not the slightest vestige of evidence for it** it only tells me something about the writer, his intellectual style and standards of evidence. Your reference to him falls into that category.

    **his father Keith was the son of an immigrant Scot who became moderator of the Presbyterian church in the state of Victoria and his mother Elisabeth Greene was from an Anglo-Irish family. Rupert went to a C of E (Episcopal) boarding school which – when I went to it – had a student body which was less than 1 per cent Jewish.

    Where does the fantasy about him being Jewish come from? BTW his first wife was Anglican, second Catholic, third Chinese non religious, fourth Jerry Hall! What a good Jewish boy!

    • Replies: @Rurik
  201. @L.K

    UR or my phone software accident

  202. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    why I condemn those who would try to resurrect the reputation of the Nazis, ..

    Hmmm…

    boy oh boy did I ever say that wrong!

    I certainly don’t condemn you or SC or anyone else for their myopia vis-a-vis the Nazis. I condemn the error, not the person making it.

    And I agree with everything you guys say about how Hitler wanted peace and how he was rope-a-doped into war over the corridor. Absolutely.

    But then too, many of my ancestors hail from Norway, and what the Nazis did to any resistance in Norway was unconscionable. Perhaps a German soldier tried to fraternize with a Norwegian woman, (it seems to me that the Nazis encouraged this kind of thing) and then if that soldier turned up dead somehow, the Nazis would line up ten villagers from where ever they think the justice came from, and execute them.

    How do you think this made the Norwegian people feel about their ‘master race’ occupiers?

    Just because Stalin and the Bolsheviks were worse, does not exculpate the myriad atrocities of the Nazis. IMHO.

    And I’m all for Poland tearing down every single abomination on Polish soil that those statues represent. And pronto!

    If the Russians don’t like it, they should stop honoring the rapists and savages that were the Red Army.

  203. @L.K

    A glance at your contribution to a side issue that I don’t want to buy into prompts me to observe that Lebensraum was a big issue for Hitler and his crew because Germans and Russians hadn’t curbed their pre Industrial Revolution fertility when France and then Britain did. In 1913 two million Germans and five million Russians were born. A recipe for disaster 20+ years later.

    Cp. the continued fertility of Arab and Pakistani Muslims and black Africans.

  204. @Bill

    I don’t always read Marwan so am not sure that I correctly understand this to be a sarcastic aside about another commenter that you perhaps imagine I might be interested in. Not offended, just mildly puzzled.

  205. @Parbes

    When you’ve taken your medication have a look at #172.

    • Replies: @Parbes
  206. @Talha

    Your posts are so reliably couteous and literate that I would like to see you avoid the words lie and lying as often as you have been using them and in the way you have.

    Surely a verbslly punctilious person like you would agree that lying is essentially about deceiving and/or maliciously slandering people with words clearly known to be untrue. In any event “liar” and “lying” convey specially pungent insult.

    I think you are referring usually to occasions where some could be accused of “playing fast and loose with the truth”, just recklessly indifferent to the known facts or wilfully ignoring the evidence etc.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Max Payne
  207. @Rurik

    “Hitler wanted peace”! Are you serious? Cf. Mein Kampf; cf. marching intto the Rhineland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union [OK preemptive if you will] and declaring war on the US.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  208. @Big Bill

    Your first par about the Potsdam conference sounds like pure fiction to me. Where do you source your allegations?

  209. helena says:
    @Sam Shama

    Good observations, well expressed.

    Yes Peter was, I believe. Also Carry On fims, surely greatly influenced by? I sometimes wonder what of English humour is and isn’t. It’s simply the lack of ability to have these interesting analyses done (by others – I’m no literary critic!) that frustrates.

    Have you ever seen the Yiddish Dictionary that depicts different scenarios for about 4 or 5 different types of word for ‘idiot’? Have I mentioned this before? It made me laugh when I read it decades ago and remains with me always. Someone walks into a restaurant, trips over a bag and knocks into the waiter who spills food down a customer. The tripper, the bag -leaver, the knocked-into and the spillage recipient, are each a different type of idiot. The idea being that such people always end up in the same type of situations. I used to know a man who kept monkeys and there was a broken step near the monkey enclosure and we sometimes sat and watched the visitors coming towards the steps and played ‘guess who’s going to trip on the step.’

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  210. utu says:
    @Rurik

    Wiki does not mention of any execution of Norwegians by Germans except for 23 Jewish extrajudicial killings.

    15,000 Norwegian served in SS division (15,000 is a lot for population of Norway). Half of them fought on Eastern front. Many Norwegian women participated in Lebensborn program with SS officers. One of Abba girls was born out of this program. Her mother left for Sweden to avoid stigma and after the war persecution. Overall Norwegian were rather cowardly both in defeat (by eagerly cooperating with Nazis) and cowardly in victory by committing atrocities on German POW’s whom they used to clear mine fields and they used similar to Bush legal excuse that the POW’s were not POW’s so Geneva Convention did not apply to them.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  211. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    his mother Elisabeth Greene was from an Anglo-Irish family.

    I read a few places that she was Jewish. If not, OK, maybe he’s not. But he sure is eligible for honorary Jew, I should think. He doesn’t fart unless it’s good for the Jews. (and Israel!)

    • Replies: @helena
    , @Wizard of Oz
  212. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dear WoO,

    Acknowledged – thank you for the correction.

    We should give people the benefit of doubt.

    May God bless you for correcting me with such etiquette.

  213. helena says:
    @Rurik

    Exactly what I’m talking about. Why shouldn’t we be able to have these analyses? Jewish people love to tell us how long they have been in Europe/UK (UK’s not Europe, right?) and also love to tell us that they are a separate culture, and yet noone is allowed to analyse the relationship between Jewish culture and that of European cultures.

    My observations are guess work. But thinking about, not just who makes programmes but, the wider culture also, surely the US must be more influenced? From reading Unz I’ve been surprised just how Jewish the US is. People in the UK by contrast have absolutely no idea about Jewish culture, unless like me they happened to grow up in a Jewish area.

    Given that Americans ‘don’t do irony’, I’d love to think that irony is a good-ole Euro-virtue.

    Thinking about religious ideologies – christianity is premised on self-doubt – ‘know thyself’ and ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’ and ‘take the plank from your own eye before the splinter in another’s’. That’s where I think English humour gets its tendency to self-deprecate. How Jewish was ‘The Likely Lads’ or ‘Only Fools and Horses’?

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Rurik
  214. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Hitler wanted peace”! Are you serious? Cf. Mein Kampf; cf. marching intto the Rhineland, Austria, Czechoslovakia,

    when he marched into Austria and the Rhineland, Sudetenland.. he was welcomed as a hero and had flowers and kisses hurled upon him by a loving and devoted citizenry

    all he wanted was what was so treacherously taken from Germany and the German people at Versailles, who were cruelly interned under the rule of Poles and others who hated and persecuted the ethnic Germans.

    Germany was ascendant and thriving. It had managed at long last to free itself from the hated and depraved yoke of the Jews. But the Jews would have none of that, and agitated for and got their war.

    Yes, by the end of the war Hitler had gone insane and declared war on the US. Whom the Gods would destroy…

    (I borrowed that last line from Pat Buchannan)

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  215. helena says:
    @Rurik

    When the Murdoch inquiry was going in UK, a reporter once remarked that the judge looked like a younger version of Murdoch.

  216. Max Payne says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I think the word you’re looking for is “demagoguery”.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  217. Rurik says:
    @utu

    Wiki does not mention of any execution of Norwegians by Germans except for 23 Jewish extrajudicial killings.

    The Germans attempted to stifle Resistance activities and executed several innocent Norwegian men, women, and children in retaliation after any Resistance act. Probably the worst act of reprisal was the assault on the fishing village of Telavåg in the spring of 1942.[citation needed]


    On 26 April 1942, after having discovered that some of the inhabitants of Telavåg were hiding two men from the Linge company, Arne Meldal Værum and Emil Gustav Hvaal, the Gestapo arrived to arrest the Norwegian officers. Shots were exchanged, and two prominent German Gestapo officers (Kriminalrat Gerhard Berns and Kriminalsekretär Henry Bertram) were shot dead. Arne Værum was also killed in the incident. Emil Hvaal and his son were executed a few months later.

    Reichskommissar Josef Terboven personally oversaw the reaction, which was quick and brutal. As the villagers were watching, all buildings were destroyed, all boats were sunk or confiscated, and all livestock taken away. All men in the village were either executed or sent to the Nazi concentration camp at Sachsenhausen. Of the 72 who were deported from Telavåg, 31 were murdered in captivity. Women and children were imprisoned for two years. 18 Norwegian prisoners (unrelated to Telavåg) held at the Trandum internment camp were also executed as a reprisal. Though smaller in scale, this atrocity is often compared to similar events at Lidice in the Czech Republic and Oradour-sur-Glane in France.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telav%C3%A5g

    The way the Norwegians treated the children of Norwegian women and German officers after the war was over is the worst stains upon their nation and race that I can think of. Many of them were put into insane asylums and subjected to abuse by sexual predators and fiends. I have a very big problem with that.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @utu
    , @SolontoCroesus
  218. @Rurik

    Partial truths which look like evasive action undermine your argument and general credibility. E.g. in stating (irrelevantly – after all what was the prospect of the Nazis being greeted by overt protests by those who didn’t support them?) that Hitler was welcomed in some of the countries I mentioned you significantly said “Sudetenland” when I had referred to Czechoslovakia – which was later.

    And you appear to be plucking imagined facts out of the air. Hitler declared war on the US in December 1941 – not “at the end of the war when he had gone mad” (May 1945 presumably).

  219. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    The Germans attempted to stifle Resistance activities and executed several innocent Norwegian men, women, and children in retaliation after any Resistance act.

    Very similar things were taking place a little farther south:

    Increasing attacks by partisans in the latter years of the occupation resulted in a number of executions and wholesale slaughter of civilians in reprisal. In total, the Germans executed some 21,000 Greeks, the Bulgarians executed some 40,000 and the Italians executed some 9,000. By June 1944, between them the Axis powers had “raided 1,339 towns, boroughs and villages, of which 879, or two-thirds, were completely wiped out, leaving more than a million people homeless” in the course of their anti-partisan sweeps, mostly in the areas of Central Greece, Western Macedonia and the Bulgarian occupation zone.

    The most infamous examples in the German zone are those of the village of Kommeno on 16 August 1943, where 317 inhabitants were executed by the 1. Gebirgs-Division and the village torched, the “Holocaust of Viannos” on 14–16 September 1943, in which over 500 civilians from several villages in the region of Viannos and Ierapetra in Crete were executed by the 22. Luftlande Infanterie-Division, the “Massacre of Kalavryta” on 13 December 1943, in which Wehrmacht troops of the 117th Jäger Division carried out the extermination of the entire male population and the subsequent total destruction of the town, the “Distomo massacre” on 10 June 1944, where units of the Waffen-SS Polizei Division looted and burned the village of Distomo in Boeotia resulting in the deaths of 218 civilians and the “Holocaust of Kedros” on 22 August 1944 in Crete, where 164 civilians were executed and nine villages were dynamited after being looted. At the same time, in the course of the concerted anti-guerrilla campaign, hundreds of villages were systematically torched and almost 1,000,000 Greeks left homeless.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_occupation_of_Greece?wprov=sfsi1

    • Replies: @Rurik
  220. @Rurik

    The picture you link of an elderly woman with a man I presume to be Jewish is certainly a picture of Rupert Murdoch’s mother whom I knew well. There must have been thousands of people who got themselves into selfies with Rupert’s mother who was independently famous and well regarded for her generosity and good works (and good humour and personal kindness).

  221. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Not likely, Muslim women can only marry Muslim men – by consensus.

    right away I think of the most sensational account

    Clooney must accept the Druze belief that Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah was God incarnate.

    So why doesn’t Clooney’s future wife simply convert to Christianity?

    Wouldn’t that be simpler?

    Probably not—it might be too risky as the penalty for leaving Islam is death.

    http://johnharding.com/2014/05/george-clooney-a-muslim/

    I don’t think it matters to them too much, so perhaps in the future, it will matter less and less to modernized, more secularized Muslim maidens? No? Yes?

    “God is exalted above all need, while you are the destitute. And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you.” 47:38

    Well Talha, as far as I can see it is the Christians who’re demanding we all open our borders to unlimited immigration, and the secular types like myself who’re more interested in not being replaced.

    In the true nature of the world – God always has the last say – no matter what our zealous, new-found anthropocentrism tells us.

    I think you have that anthropocentrism thing backwards. I think imagining that there is an omniscient. all-powerful God in/of the universe that really cares about who we marry or what manner of food we eat, is perhaps a little bit anthropocentric? In a way I do agree with you that God always has the last say, but that God I’m thinking of is the Gods of the Copybook Headings, If you read your Kipling (one of my personal favorites)

    if one wants Islam to concede the right for them to insult the Prophet (pbuh) or revile God or such publicly

    I have to confess Talha that He seems a rather thin-skinned and jealous God to me. Which is more offensive to your God, a man who mocks Him, or the man who cuts that man’s head off?

    You have a principle – you stick with it – and apply it across the board. That is commendable, because hypocrites are to be abhorred.

    On this point, we could not possibly agree more!

    the fleeing Muslim masses are at the mercy of God and at the kindness and generosity of the Europeans letting them in – and they should behave thusly.

    I agree, and I think they should be given shelter and succor, until such time as they can be comfortably returned to help rebuild their shattered countries. If I had the power, I’d want to provide massive reparations, trials at the Hague for the myriad and assorted war criminals in my government and all those who collaborated with them in perpetrating these heinous atrocities upon these people, and massive aid to help them rebuild.

    I’d immediately redirect the billions we give to Israel over to Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria and Ukraine. With zero military aid to any one. No more slaughter. Peace. That’s what I’d love to see and that’s what I always advocate, and I might add, I do so from a purely secular desire to see less suffering in the world, and especially less suffering caused by my own government.

    Peace to you my friend. God bless

    • Replies: @Talha
  222. utu says:
    @Rurik

    Thanks for your #219 comment and information.

  223. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    That gave me a chuckle; those Druze have some cajones eh?

    “You have to believe that a possibly insane dead Fatimid Caliph that destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and probably ignited the Crusades – was God incarnate.” I love it!

    We don’t consider them Muslim though – once you start thinking anything is God-incarnate there really is no leeway on that.

    Which is more offensive to your God, a man who mocks Him, or the man who cuts that man’s head off?

    I guess that really is in the eye of the beholder. From what we have been taught; He is extremely forbearing and forgiving to those who recognize their mistakes and their dependency on Him – but, He does not brook obstinate belligerency, He is not a chump. The Christians of the past recognized this sentiment; public, unrepentant derision of the Divine was not tolerated – they simply left it after it was massively abused to kill those with different views in the sanguinary religious wars I have referenced.

    And for all those sentiments ending with the word “Peace” my friend, you have earned my prayers and I hope your name is in the prayers of the oppressed around the world – and those are very powerful prayers, as the Prophet (pbuh) taught us:
    “Beware the supplication of the oppressed, even if he is an unbeliever, for there is no veil between it and God.” – Musnad Ahmad

    • Replies: @Rurik
  224. joe webb says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    fun–ny. I once had a jew foaming at the mouth over my Uncle Sam routine. sign:…”I want you to die for Israel.”Joe Webb

  225. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Hey Rurik,

    Again, my friend, context. Germany invaded Norway bc it had to. They would never have done it otherwise. The British pests and the French were planning to invade neutral Norway to cut the germans off their strategic iron ore supply lines from Sweeden.
    See, for instance;
    Hitler’s Pre-Emptive War: The Battle for Norway, 1940 Hardcover – May 15, 2009
    by Henrik O. Lunde

    http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Pre-Emptive-War-Battle-Norway/dp/1932033920

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_R_4

    BTW, I think you are a bit too fixated on the master race thing(lotsa propaganda involved with this term), obviously NS did NOT see Norwegians as inferior or any such thing.

    As Utu mentioned, there were quite a few Norwegians( and Swedes, danes, finns) who served as volunteers in German units, particularly in the elite Waffen SS Wiking armored division.

    In regards to counterinsurgency, I’ll point out to you that the rules of engagement then were quite different and allowed for far more draconian measures than is the case at present.
    You would be shocked to read the US marines manual for counterinsurgency from the 1930s.
    Furthermore, wikipedia and most WWII literature is highly biased against the germans(and the axis in general) and not to be trusted when discussing alleged war crimes.
    This is natural since it is the victors who write history and do so to in a way to present themselves as the good guys and the other side as evil.
    At any rate, there was not much of an insurgency in Norway.

    As for those who caused the war, the US had a great deal of responsability for the outbreak of war in Europe and for its subsequent escalation into a world war.
    The other main culprits were Perfidious Albion, aka, the english pests, and the peace loving uncle Stalin.

    Take care

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Rurik
  226. L.K says:

    Just one more thing, Rurik, just to be clear;

    Re my previous post, I’m obviously NOT trying to say the germans never comitted any atrocities, only that their wrongdoings have been greatly exagerated – at times indeed made up – while at the same time the horrific war crimes comitted by the Allies are either white washed or not even discussed at all.

    Best regards

  227. utu says:
    @helena

    American English now contains fairly large vocabulary from Yiddish. Even scrabble dictionary. But look what kind of words are they? They are mostly derogatory terms concerning human character traits. In addition to these Polish and Russian languages have also lots of Yiddish words that entered from 19 century and early 20 century criminal slang that was based on Yiddish. The latter Jewish contributions are rarely mentioned in history of Jewish culture.

  228. @Rurik

    Probably the worst act of reprisal was the assault on the fishing village of Telavåg in the spring of 1942.
    On 26 April 1942 . . . [after partisans killed two Gestapo officers, Germans carried out reprisals that cost the lives of most of the men 16 and older of the Norwegian village of Telavåg were sent to concentrations camps where many of them died. 300 houses and all the livestock and fishing boats were destroyed . . . women and children were initially held in the chapel, but after lengthy negotiations and the involvement of the Red Cross, they were transferred to a nearby town where the locals prepared for their stay.

    Also in the first quarter of 1942,

    The Ruhr basin was a sprawling urban landscape with cities practically nested within one another. It was itself a huge target, and Essen, with the centrally located Krupp Works, held a particular fascination. From December 1941 to February 1942, Bomber Command limited its activities to forty-three night raids because they were waiting for the Gee eqipment. And then within four and a half weeks in March and April 1942, 1,500 bombers closed in on the Ruhr, on a mission to level Essen.

    . . .There was one fire at Krupp and a few bombs had ruined the nearby railroad lines, but that was the only industrial damage. A small number of apartments were destroyed and sixty-three civilians died; the popular Blumenhof Restaurant . . .was reduced to ashes. It had been used as quarters for foreign workers and forced laborers. Twenty-four other cities were unknowingly bombarded. The attack on the night of March 9 alone brought bitter suffering to Hamborn and Duisburg, killing seventy-four people outside of Essen.

    [The Gee system was deemed inaccurate.] In January 1943, the British produced Oboe, which let the destruction of the Ruhr basin resume. . . . The Germans could not find anything to counter Oboe.

    The bombardier, whether or not he aimed for a target, caused damage. He fired a shot basically like a cannon’s but vertically. It was all the same whether he fired blindly or aimed. The site where the cannonball hit was a target of some kind. The grammar of shot and target became insignificant. The pathfinder no longer indicated a point but rather outlined an area. It then was not a matter of “hitting” discrete objects within the area—instead, the demarcated area comprised all that was simply not supposed to be and was to be removed from the world. Annihilation is the spatial extension of death. The victim does not die his death because he does not have one. He finds himself in a sphere in which life has ceased.

    . . .Around the beginning of 1942, Bomber Command had not only the will but the basic technology to create an annihilation zone. This zone was the sector of a city. An act of was was the process by which the sector was brought into a state of annihilation. [p 69]

    “In October 1940 . . .Churchill and Portal had considered the possibility of destroying population centers through the “maximum use of fire.” . . .Portal’s presentation to Churchill in September became the British strategy starting on February 14, 1942. In the Area Bombing Directive that the Air Ministry sent to Bomber Command, the most densely settled urban areas were identified as points of attack:

    “It has been decided that the primary objective of your operations should now be focussed on the morale of the enemy civil population and, in particular, of the industrial workers.” . . .for absolute clarity, Portal added for the record: “I suppose it is clear that the aiming points are to be the built-up areas, not, for instance, the dockyards or aircraft factories . . . This must be made quite clear if it is not already understood.” . . .

    Arthur Harris was entrusted with [carrying out attacks on morale in densely populated settlements] as he became the new head of Bomber Command on February 22, 1942. . . .Harris wrote that his superiors . . .had set the strategy, target sites, and tactics for the offensive. The objective “was to be achieved by destroying, mainly by incendiary bombs, the whole of the four largest cities in the Ruhr, and thereafter fourteen industrial cities elsewhere in Germany.”

    Harris suggested for incineration a city that was guaranteed to be a success: Lubeck. . . .[It ] had no industry that was essential for the war effort so it was not heavily defended. . . .It would burn easily . . .

    At the full moon, on the eve of Palm Sunday [1942], Harris dispatched 234 aircraft loaded with four hundred tons of bombs, two-thirds of which were incendiaries . . . [Within twenty minutes of the beginning of the attack] fires surged through the warehouses, quays, . . . and 1500 of the historic, high-gabled houses . . . Ultimately, eighty miles of street facade were ablaze. Sixty-two percent of all buildings were destroyed or damaged. . . . 320 residents lost their lives that night. The raid lasted just two hours. from The Fire, by Jorg Friedrich

    Still reading?

    Then incorporate these little-known facts into your calculus of brutality:

    From the day that the British declared war on Germany, September 3, 1939, the British intercepted and decoded radio transmissions between and among German fighters and leaders. Communications among the SS were particularly numerous; they filled at least 43 volumes and numbered in the hundreds of thousands. Eighty percent of those communications consists of messages to SS soldiers — “Josef Schmit, your home in Hamburg was firebombed last night, your wife and four daughters confirmed dead.”

    Churchill and his high command made use of terror bombing as a means of destroying civilian morale among German workers.

    But the real effect of the terror bombing, as the British code-breakers well knew, was to incite emotions of revenge and retaliation among the many German warriors whose wives and children were killed by British and American bombardiers who targeted not just German cities, but German cities that they knew would not be defended and that were of no military usefulness.

    When your handing out judgments and condemnations, Rurik, make sure you’ve weighed both sides of the story on the scales.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  229. I have to confess Talha that He seems a rather thin-skinned and jealous God to me. Which is more offensive to your God, a man who mocks Him, or the man who cuts that man’s head off?

    Don’t blaspheme G-d and you won’t get your head cut off. It’s pretty simple. Medieval Europe didn’t allow blasphemy, why should modern society tolerate it?

    I’m shocked that Clooney’s wife is a Druze. I thought she was Sunni.

    I think she is maybe the most beautiful woman I have ever seen. I hear she is a huge bitch.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Wizard of Oz
  230. Kat Grey says:

    Injecting a toxic religion ( Islam) into the Eurpoean body politic coupled with the mass importation of feral Africans will turn large swathes of western Europe into a replica of Nigeria or Somalia. In the past the occasional smiling African medical student presented no problem at all but when major European cities have large uncontrollable hordes of swaggering blacks strutting along the pavements leering ang jeering you have a serious problem brewing. Everywhere that has acted as host to the black diaspora has been blighted by crime and social chaos. And once negroes have entered a white nation’s gene pool the result is a uniform mulatto population whose only contributions will be on the football field or MTV. The UK and USA are heading in that direction with Germany hot on their heels; however Belgium and probably France are already lost causes seeing as ethnic children are the majority in both nations. Italy and many Eastern European countries have aging populations and in the former most couples wait to marry and start families until they are in their thirties. Immigrant couples on the other hand have at least for or five children. This is a demographic time bomb that will explode in the the near future. It is inevitable that our grandchildren will be persecuted minorities in their historical homelands. And eventually the white European phenotype will graduslly disappear….

  231. @Talha

    You muslims need a manifold-validated religious verse to tell you not to kill women and children?

    And you wonder why non-muslims are wary of islam.

  232. geokat62 says:
    @helena

    Thinking about religious ideologies – christianity is premised on self-doubt – ‘know thyself

    Just wanted to clarify the origin of this phrase:

    The Ancient Greek aphorism “know thyself” … is one of the Delphic maxims and was inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself

    • Replies: @helena
  233. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The only medication I take is anti-vomit medication, for when I visit webpages like this one and read the emissions of such as yourself. In your case, however, not even a full course of psychotropic medication would suffice to overcome your various shortcomings.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  234. Rurik says:
    @helena

    Why shouldn’t we be able to have these analyses? Jewish people love to tell us how long they have been in Europe/UK (UK’s not Europe, right?) and also love to tell us that they are a separate culture, and yet noone is allowed to analyse the relationship between Jewish culture and that of European cultures.

    well we can here Helena, and on a Jewish man’s website. Also there have been rather extensive analysis of Jewish culture done by Jews of course, but also by Gentiles, both pro-Jewish, and critical. There are some men like David Duke for instance or Kevin MacDonald whose works I’d say might fall under the latter.

    People in the UK by contrast have absolutely no idea about Jewish culture

    perhaps that’s like a fish not knowing what water is

    Or, I’d put it this way. British culture is what you find in the hinterlands, where the castles and old stone villages and cobblestone streets are. It’s in the books written a hundred years ago and the British traditions and pubs and tales of kings and queens and rogues and royals both great and not so great. These things, and many more too subtle for words, are what British culture means to me. Now contrast that with London today, or Manchester or Liverpool. The contrast is stark and striking. There’s nary a person of British ethnicity in London these days it seems. And the horror at suggesting that such a thing (British ethnicity) even exists- is a direct consequence of having Jewish culture written overtop of British culture- is how you can tell the difference.

    For some reason British culture and Jewish culture seem mutually exclusive. In order for one to prevail (rampant homosexuality, multiculturalism, moral deviancy, a mocking of all notions of traditional British culture and history as racist, etc…) can not seem to thrive where a proud British culture is also respected and prevalent.

    Maybe Talha is right, maybe there’s something inside those cathedrals that’s fundamental to the British soul and aspirations. Perhaps when the spirit that built Westminster Abbey or St. Paul’s Cathedral died, then something fundamental to the British spirit died in the British soul. And have made them zombies ripe for the plucking. That’s what the Brits seem like to me today, walking around in a daze, catatonic as their ancient lands are taken from them, right under their noses. (but they’re not racists!!!)

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  235. utu says:
    @L.K

    “the rules of engagement then were quite different and allowed for far more draconian measures” – taking hostages and executing them was permissible by international law (Geneva and/or Hague conventions). For this reason Wermacht officers after the war were not prosecuted in most cases. The laws were actually intended to prevent escalation into the total war were there is no distinction between combatants and noncombatants. The population under occupation must behave to be properly treated by the occupying forces. In countries that did not officially surrender (like Poland) conditions for the population were much worse than in countries like Norway that had Quisling or France that had Petain. Some anti-German guerrillas when planning some actions were taking in to account possible retributions. Ideally attacks were to be conducted far away from any villages or towns. Pro-Soviet partisans were not bothered with such limitations as they usually did not originate from the local population but were parachuted from Moscow.

  236. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Fatimid Caliph … – was God incarnate.”

    We don’t consider them Muslim though – once you start thinking anything is God-incarnate there really is no leeway on that.

    But isn’t that exactly what all Christians believe? That Jesus was literally God incarnate?

    We don’t consider them Muslim

    Her father is Druze, but her mother is Sunni Muslim. (which if Muslims don’t consider the Druze as Muslims, then perhaps her mother is also an apostate?) you see how complicated this all gets?

    Which is more offensive to your God, a man who mocks Him, or the man who cuts that man’s head off?

    I guess that really is in the eye of the beholder

    that seems rather ambiguous for a question of such profound significance, no?

    Consider a movie like The Life of Brian, that positively revels in blasphemy. Mocks and ridicules even the most sacred (especially the most sacred) tenets of Christianity and even Judaism, and yet we all just laugh. (well, most of us)

    Don’t you wonder if there’s a pretty wide chasm between the kind of people who enjoy mocking ‘God’ (Westerners) and the kind of people who would advocate cutting the members of Monty Python’s heads off? (Arabs and Persians and African and Middle Eastern peoples)

    Is there something there that’s potentially irreconcilable?

    He is extremely forbearing and forgiving to those who recognize their mistakes and their dependency on Him – but, He does not brook obstinate belligerency, He is not a chump.

    no offense, but He sounds like a tyrant to me. Petty too. I hope you realize I’m not trying to be offensive, just honest. From my perspective.

    The Christians of the past recognized this sentiment; public, unrepentant derision of the Divine was not tolerated –

    I know. They burned “witches” alive.

    – they simply left it after it was massively abused to kill those with different views in the sanguinary religious wars I have referenced.

    are you implying only the Christians killed people with different views? !

    “Beware the supplication of the oppressed, even if he is an unbeliever, for there is no veil between it and God.” – Musnad Ahmad

    that is truly a sublime and beautiful sentiment Talha.

    If there is a God, (and I honestly don’t know) then for me, it would have to be a God of the kind described in such eloquent words.

    Your contributions are a pleasure to read

    May God grant all the rewards that gratitude have earned you and yours

    • Replies: @joe webb
    , @Talha
  237. @Rurik

    I have to wonder how the Norwegians who fought in the resistance would view their sacrifices if they could see what the victors did to their country? Been to Oslo recently? Parts of that city look occupied to me, and the occupiers seem pretty hostile. At least the Germans had no desire to destroy the demographics or culture of Norway.

    If what I’ve read is correct, a good number of the Norwegian resistance fighters fought with the Finns against the Soviets in the Winter War, and likely had some German training and sympathies prior to the German invasion of Norway.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  238. joe webb says:
    @Rurik

    I recommend to ignore Talhad her subversion. Thank you for your courtesy and interesting remarks, may Allah have mercy on your soul.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Talha
  239. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    Hey LK,

    Germany invaded Norway bc it had to. They would never have done it otherwise

    perhaps so, but the way they seemed to encourage Norwegian women to breed German babies was bound to instill hatred. It’s just a terrible shame (and terrible sin) all of that hate was taken out on the innocent children.

    rules of engagement then were quite different and allowed for far more draconian measures

    how many of those Norwegian villagers agreed to those rules?

    As for those who caused the war, the US had a great deal of responsability for the outbreak of war in Europe and for its subsequent escalation into a world war.
    The other main culprits were Perfidious Albion, aka, the english pests, and the peace loving uncle Stalin.

    I don’t think Germany wanted the war. They sent Rudolf Hess as a last ditch desperate attempt to avoid it. They allowed the British army to evacuate over 300,000 troops from Dunkirk as a gesture of peace. But perfidious albi0n would have none of it.

    Hitler and the Nazis wanted to crush the genocidal Bolsheviks holed up in Moscow. That was their agenda. They didn’t want war with the West. And the West fought on the wrong side of that war IMHO. But that doesn’t excuse the Nazi hubris and atrocities (like setting up baby breeding houses in Norway) that created so much hate for the Nazis.

    NOT trying to say the germans never comitted any atrocities, only that their wrongdoings have been greatly exagerated – at times indeed made up – while at the same time the horrific war crimes comitted by the Allies are either white washed or not even discussed at all.

    I agree completely

    Best regards to you too

  240. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Churchill and his high command made use of terror bombing as a means of destroying civilian morale among German workers.

    that might explain Hamburg and other cities, but the fire bombing of Dresden was done when the war was effectively over, and it was filling up with hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the Red Army sub-human rapists and blood spattered savages.

    There was no military excuse for fire bombing Dresden. That was an act of pure, unadulterated genocidal hatred. Unleashed.

    When your handing out judgments and condemnations, Rurik, make sure you’ve weighed both sides of the story on the scales.

    I do SC. It is my sincere intention to simply know the truth of it, and speak the truth as I understand it. When ever I learn something new, that’s true, I always adjust my understanding. It’s a constant and ongoing process, fluid and open minded.

  241. Rurik says:
    @Greasy William

    I thought she was Sunni.

    her mother is Sunni

    I think she is maybe the most beautiful woman I have ever seen. I hear she is a huge bitch.

    she is hot, and she probably is

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  242. Rurik says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Been to Oslo recently?

    or London, or Paris?

    Not just the Norwegians (and Swedes!), but if the British and French and other WWII soldiers could see what’s become of their countries today, they’d have been the most ferocious Wehrmacht SS soldiers of all.

    Like I’ve said, the West fought on the wrong side of that war. We should have helped Hitler destroy and stomp into the ground a la Carthage all hints of communism and it should have been Stalin who was hung from a gallows at Nuremburg. And then once Stalin and his minions were dead and gone, then the world could have urged Germany to tone down it’s militarism, which I believe they would have been happy to do, the threat having been dispatched.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  243. Sam Shama says:
    @helena

    Have you ever seen the Yiddish Dictionary that depicts different scenarios for about 4 or 5 different types of word for ‘idiot’?

    I have indeed! A well utilised theme, where ‘idiot’ can be substituted by any complimentary quality or epithet as the situation demands.

    In the present thread [further up] I thought that the original ‘idiot’ should suit rather well, for our long-winded, morally towering popinjay who claims opinion on all subjects, including culture, but ends delivering codswallop. [Honestly I thought that the unemployment numbers in the U.S. were on the mend.]

    Monkey enclosure story made me smile…..childhood has a way of introducing events that appear really quite profound in retrospect.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Wizard of Oz
  244. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    Always keeping the discussion lively…

    But isn’t that exactly what all Christians believe? That Jesus was literally God incarnate?

    And the Hindus with their avatars, etc. Exactly, thus they are not Muslim.

    which if Muslims don’t consider the Druze as Muslims, then perhaps her mother is also an apostate?) you see how complicated this all gets?

    Very complicated. The charge of apostasy is; 1) very grave, 2) can only be made by relevant authority, 2) can only be judged by scholars of requisite qualifications. In this case, she would simply be living in sin – as her marriage contract is simply irrelevant. We were warned about being frivolous with this charge, by the hadith, “If man says to his brother, ‘You disbeliever!’ then indeed it returns to one of them.”

    I know of top scholars in the Sunni Orthodox tradition that have sought to put a temporary halt to this ruling due to its current wide-spread abuse. Sort of how traditionally, the punishment of the thief is interdicted in times of famine.

    Consider a movie like The Life of Brian…and yet we all just laugh. (well, most of us)

    Admittedly, I love the Python troupe, but that one I have avoided because of the sacrosanct nature of some of what they mock. However, I have watched and do love that scene where the women dress up like men to stone the heretic – hilarious!!! That kind of behavior (bloodthirstiness) should be mocked.

    Don’t you wonder if there’s a pretty wide chasm between the kind of people who enjoy mocking ‘God’ (Westerners) and the kind of people who would advocate cutting the members of Monty Python’s heads off?

    Yes, but there didn’t used to be – as I mentioned, I believe much of this divide is due to the European experience of mass slaughter among the various Christian sects who were abusing this. And then in the aftermath…too much Voltaire and far too little Kierkegaard.
    “How absurd men are! They never use the liberties they have, they demand those they do not have. They have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.” – Kierkegaard

    Petty too. I hope you realize I’m not trying to be offensive, just honest. From my perspective.

    No offense taken. As far as we’ve been taught, God is as He is, not as we’d like Him to be.

    are you implying only the Christians killed people with different views?

    Heavens no! I am saying that the intra-Christian sectarian wars after the Reformation in Europe were on a scale unprecedented in any other religion – this is a factual statement. And this was a particularly Western Christian affair; the Orthodox churches of the East simply sat that one out, but probably observed in horror. One in five or six people died due to them; that kind of a traumatic affair leaves an indelible effect on the collective psyche – so no, it doesn’t surprise me that a people with that in their collective conscience would look at things differently.

    that is truly a sublime and beautiful sentiment

    Not my words, my friend, but I agree.

    May God preserve the people of Europe from ever witnessing such horrors again.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Rurik
  245. Talha says:
    @joe webb

    I have been declared trans-gendered…

    “The horror…the horror…” – Colonel Kurtz

  246. Their ”extreme center” (of control) have the worst of both, left and right.

  247. helena says:
    @geokat62

    Thank you. Isn’t that a useful link between Ancient Greek civilisation and Modern European civilisation? Wasn’t the first christian symbol Chi-Ro?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  248. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    now, now Sam

    I suspect that was a (not very) oblique attempt at an insult

    ; )

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  249. @Parbes

    It seems odd that you bother to reply since you fail utterly to make convincing substantive and relevant points. 95 out of 100 though for vitriolic rhetoric. And it is really strange that this all issues from your angry response to my suggesting that another commenter’s reference to Chechnya as if it were a nation or country was, in so far as it was an error in context, a trivial “technical” one.

    If you aren’t taking medication perhaps you ought to be. Or maybe cognitive behavioural thetapy or meditation would improve your condition, and your manners as a bonus for others.

    • Replies: @Parbes
  250. @Rurik

    How do you explain the huge emphasis in the upper and middle middle classes on getting their children into really good schools (private and public) whose curricula and cultures are no more affected by Jews or Jewish culture than they were 100 or 150 years ago?

    In so far as you are implying that the bottom 50 per cent (or 90 per cent) have been made over by Jewish influence you must be ignoring the fact that there is a striking difference – indeed gulf – between influential largely secular Jew’s who for 90 years or so have been the successful products of traditional English and Scottish elite education and the obscurantist Orthodox who keep to themselves.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Rurik
  251. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    she looks more like savadore dali than anything else . surprised either of you find her attractive .

    • Replies: @Rurik
  252. @Greasy William

    How do you explain what you have written as an answer to what you quote? Or were you merely using it as a peg to hang your strong anti blasphemy opinions on?

  253. @Talha

    “relevant authority”

    “scholars of requisite qualifications”

    Since serious conscientious religious people hang their justifications for such actions as cutting a thief’s hand off, stoning an adulterous or killing an apostate on the judgments of such authorities isn’t it an extremely serious problem that there is no way to determine which of the purported authorities (who don’t always agree with each other) are to be trusted and followed? And why should a modern educated person give any weight to the views of any imam, mullah, ayatollah or whatever who, even if expert in something because he is an “Islamic scholar”, knows nothing up to date about the dozens of disciplines which have transformed the modern world and largely explained much that religious authorities only pretended to know anything about?

    • Replies: @Talha
  254. @Sam Shama

    A little book by a muliligual female academic in Canberra that I read many years ago noted that Russian had dozens [from memory - a lot anyway though I can't remember the name of the book....I think the author was Anna SomethingSlavic] of words for idiot….

  255. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    In so far as you are implying that the bottom 50 per cent (or 90 per cent) have been made over by Jewish influence you must be ignoring the fact that there is a striking difference – indeed gulf – between influential largely secular Jew’s who for 90 years or so have been the successful products of traditional English and Scottish elite education and the obscurantist Orthodox who keep to themselves.

    Quite. Thanks Wiz.

    I need proof for these idly [and mean-spiritedly] flung accusations of Jewish undermining of English and Scottish culture. For this I would find nothing less than a carefully considered essay to be sufficient. Flinging a link here or a reference there, won’t do at all.

    In the case of the U.S, I have stated without much reservation that the product on supply is entirely driven by the demands of a young, rough and tumble culture. Even there, explain Woody Allen, Cecil B DeMille, Nora Ephron, Alan Arkin, J.J Abrams, Steven Spielberg, Fritz Lang, Stanley Kubrick, Anatole Litvak, Bryan Singer, Oliver Stone, Leonard Nimoy, Sean Penn etc….

  256. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Always keeping the discussion lively…

    it’s your nimble mind and scholarly knowledge that keeps it lively Talha

    And the Hindus with their avatars, etc. Exactly, thus they are not Muslim.

    going to hell in a handbasket?

    I know of top scholars in the Sunni Orthodox tradition that have sought to put a temporary halt to this ruling due to its current wide-spread abuse.

    gay marriage is soon to follow?

    too much Voltaire and far too little Kierkegaard.

    for me I guess you could say too much Twain

    “They have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech”

    for me, perhaps especially as an American, these are ugly words. Smacks of Stalin

    God is as He is, not as we’d like Him to be.

    for us seculars, He is as He was created to be, by man – not the other way around

    Heavens no! I am saying that the intra-Christian sectarian wars after the Reformation in Europe

    Oh, OK, I gotcha

    I’ve always seen this as about earthly control and power, rather than divine intervention

    I’ve always considered religion as a tool for some men to control other men. And looking back on the wars and strife over the centuries, it seems to me that the differences between secular, earthy power and divine, religious power have been negligible to the point of disappearing into rule by God-kings. From the times of ancient Egypt to Xerxes to Caesar to, as you mention -Fatimid Caliph- all the way up to ‘God’s agent on earth’ Constantine. Hell, even today the images of Obama as some kind of divine messiah are legion.

    It seems the reason Catholics slaughtered Protestants and vise versa had more to do with the reach and scope of the power of the Catholic monarch or Pope or Protestant king or queen than it ever had to do with getting to heaven. But that’s just how I see it.

    May God preserve the people of Europe from ever witnessing such horrors again.

    Amen to that sir, Amen to that!

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @anon
  257. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    whose curricula and cultures are no more affected by Jews or Jewish culture than they were 100 or 150 years ago?

    Oh, and the accounts of the ‘white man’s burden’, are they taught as the selfless heroics of the great British mariners and statesmen who brought civilization to the savages? Or as the ravages of white racist slavers and oppressors?

    How is WWI described, as an act of treachery by the British elites to destroy Germany as a potential colonial rival, or the act of a heroic England saving the world from a demonic Germany hell bent on global domination?

    I won’t even discuss WWII. I don’t have the stomach for what they’re no doubt filling the children’s minds with.

    As the pride and virility of the British empire upon which the sun never set, to the ignoble cuckification of the British people today, I suspect there has been a rather spectacular sea change in the culture, since it’s been handed over to the tender mercies of the elites in charge of it today. And the results are there for all the world to see, and retch at.

    • Replies: @helena
  258. Rurik says:
    @Anonymous

    she looks more like savadore dali than anything else

    depends on the lighting

    • Replies: @L.K
  259. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thanks a lot for your unsolicited prognostications regarding my mental state, o esteemed expert in psychiatry. Meanwhile, in terms of “substantive and relevant points” and simple honesty, you score a big fat zero, just like you’ve been doing since the beginning of this imbecilic back-and-forth which you started – but then that’s par for the course for you neocon slime. I’m not going to repeat any of my points, because you should have understood and carefully considered them by now.

    However it is fun to unload on you neocon pricks from time to time.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  260. @Sean the Neon Caucasian

    And reptilians???

    All bunch of “conspiracy” is not??

    Post western Feudal owners create a psychological trap to prevent that their villains to think like them.

    Le masses hate to be compared themselves with “crazy’ people.

    Europe for you

    Petroleum for you

    Cosi cosi

  261. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    going to hell in a handbasket?

    Do I look like God-incarnate to you, man? ;)

    God makes that call ultimately, we only convey what has been revealed. As our Master Jesus (pbuh) states about those who took him as God:
    “If You punish them – indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them – indeed it is You who are Exalted in Might, the Wise.” 5:118

    gay marriage is soon to follow?

    LOL!!! Actually there is a very good case to be made for non-Muslim citizens of Muslim lands to have that right. Muslim scholars have proscribed Muslim efforts to alter non-Muslim internal customs/affairs. As Oxford Prof. Gelder’s research (http://www.amazon.com/Close-Relationships-Inbreeding-Classical-Literature/dp/1850438552) states regarding the validity of any marriage, “…on two conditions. The first is that they do not appeal to Muslim authorities; tacit toleration is one thing, but explicitly condoning when asked to do so is impossible. Secondly, the minority community must believe that the marriage is valid according to their own religion. This opinion has already been voiced by many early jurists.” He goes on to cite scholars from the various schools including Imam Shafi’i (may God be pleased with him) himself – and who is more restrictive upon the non-Muslim rules than him? So if Christianity (or at least certain sects) have ceded to it – why should Muslims interfere – nay, what right do we have to interfere?

    Smacks of Stalin

    Read Kierkegaard…no Stalin was he. He will actually remind you of Thoreau.

    I’ve always considered religion as a tool for some men to control other men.

    Indeed, and will probably continue to be such…the temptation of power affects all.

    May God bless you and yours.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  262. Druid says:
    @marwan

    Methinks you’re a zio troll!

  263. Druid says:
    @Greasy William

    Bio moron idiot! You make the case for the scheming Jew!

  264. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dear WoO,

    isn’t it an extremely serious problem that there is no way to determine which of the purported authorities (who don’t always agree with each other) are to be trusted and followed?

    Why should this be the case? There are differences of opinion, no doubt. Yet there are credible institutions of knowledge all over the world; al-Azhar, Nadwat ul-Ulama, Sarhanpur, Qayrawan, etc. Can anyone grab a scalpel and start practicing ocular surgery because they downloaded 5 pdfs of surgery manuals and get high-scores on surgery simulators? Among the Sunni Orthodox (as has been the case for centuries), you become a scholar when other reputable scholars confer upon you the authority to transmit and act on the knowledge you have received and been tested on – just as you become a doctor by the certifications of other qualified doctors. AND, not all branches of knowledge are the same; I have seen with my own eyes, people who have memorized the collections of hadith including their chains of transmission, but they would NEVER assume they had the capability to derive a ruling from that knowledge because they lack the training in the requisite sciences of jurisprudence. This is no joke – it is not a game for children or gun-toting twenty year-olds; here is a very reliable translator of works from the Maliki school (just one of the four existing ones) that outlines the methodology of approaching the subject of how to determine the correct and most sound fatwa based upon the debates and discussions of the scholars of just their school and the context of the time and location of the issue:

    https://bewley.virtualave.net/fatwa.html

    And why should a modern educated person give any weight to the views of any imam, mullah, ayatollah or whatever who, even if expert in something because he is an “Islamic scholar”, knows nothing up to date about the dozens of disciplines which have transformed the modern world

    Indeed we should not, the scholar must excuse himself from the issue unless he has the tools to understand what he is talking about. I don’t know of any of the top Muftis of the world that write opinions on, say, financial transactions (you can count them on your fingers and toes since most are unqualified to hold an opinion and have to defer to more qualified scholars in this niche field) that do not either have degrees in economics themselves or do not work in conjunction with people that are experts in financial markets and law; if he needs to rule on the viability or nature of a limited liability corporation, its details must be described by an expert on the subject. On questions of bio-ethics, it is the same; teams of scholars work with teams of medical supervisors to make sure they have not misunderstood the parameters of the issue they are about to rule on.

    I know, the assumption is that these guys don’t know what is going on; they’re just a bunch of bearded guys reading Qur’an in a cave and giving fatwas off-the-cuff. The problem is much of their works have not been translated. I have read their works; many of them have read people like Hume, Kant, Spinoza, etc. and have challenged their presumptions. Though he was a Shia, Ayatollah Taleghani wrote many books deconstructing assumptions of existentialist philosophers or post-modern thought. Even the medieval scholars like Imam Baqillani (may God elevate his rank), the intellectual champion that was sent to debate at the Byzantine court, was a master of Aristotelian logic – don’t believe me – learn Persian and get through his work – or those of the brilliant polymath Imam Taftazani (may God bless him).

    The Prophet (pbuh) about this very issue:
    “Truly, God does not remove Sacred Knowledge by taking it out of servants, but rather by taking back the souls of Islamic scholars, until, when He has not left a single scholar, the people take the ignorant as leaders, who are asked for and who give Islamic legal opinion without knowledge, misguided and misguiding.”

    May God bring us back to sanity and revive the regard for authority in such matters.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  265. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    @Rurik
    She is pretty. A bit too thin for my taste, but pretty.

    Anonymous is probably either a racist type who cannot admit there are beautiful women who are not of european origin, a jelous woman or…. gay.
    hahaha

  266. geokat62 says:
    @helena

    Isn’t that a useful link between Ancient Greek civilisation and Modern European civilisation?

    One among many.

    Wasn’t the first christian symbol Chi-Ro?

    It appears that this religious symbol, too, had secular roots:

    The Chi Rho is one of the earliest forms of christogram, and is used by some Christians. It is formed by superimposing the first two (capital) letters chi and rho (ΧΡ) of the Greek word “ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ” = KRistos = Christ in such a way to produce the monogram…

    The Chi-Rho symbol was also used by pagan Greek scribes to mark, in the margin, a particularly valuable or relevant passage; the combined letters Chi and Rho standing for chrēston, meaning “good.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho

    • Replies: @helena
  267. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    The Muddled Catholic-Muslim “Dialogue”
    Robert Reilly MONDAY, MARCH 21, 2016

    https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/03/21/the-muddled-catholic-muslim-dialogue/

    I suggest that the bishops put Bat Ye’or’s book, The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude,[see below] on their reading list so they can speak accurately about Islam’s respect for “the peoples of the Book” in the first millennium and afterwards. From this history, is it unreasonable to consider that there is something “inherently violent” in Islam?

    The Prospects and Perils of Catholic-Muslim Dialogue
    By Robert R. Reilly

    http://astore.amazon.com/thecatthi-20/detail/0989290565

    [MORE]

    Christianity and Islam differ about nothing less than the nature of God and of man.

    This book points out those differences, and how they are typically obscured. So transcendent is Allah, so inferior is man, that Islam deems doubly blasphemous the statement in the Book of Genesis that God created man in His own image. Man in the image of God supposedly violates First Commandment’s assertion of God’s supremacy, while the very notion of an image of God violates its prohibition of making images of the things of heaven.

    Christianity’s central tenet, that God took on human flesh and dwelt among us in the person of Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, violates Islam’s central tenet that God has no son, no associate, no partner, — expressions which, Reilly points out, the most authoritative assembly of Muslim scholars ever convened used 15 times in a brief statement that defined their relationship with Christians.

    In short, it is not strictly true that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

    That a joint effort of Catholics and Muslims would pull punches in describing sensitive subjects is easy enough to understand. It is also a problem. Reilly cites Dr. John Borelli, who was the associate director of the Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs at for 16 years:

    ‘There is a need for each side to comprehend as much as possible and understand correctly the beliefs of the other side in their own terms.’
    As one might imagine, this can take a life-time of learning to do correctly.

    Angelo M. Codevilla is Professor Emeritus at Boston University. –Angelino Codevilla, MercatorNet

    Ye’or’s books on dhimmitude and jihad have an essential place in the ecumenical world. (James E. Biechler, Journal of Ecumenical Studies (Philadelphia) Journal of Ecumenical Studies)

    [I]t must be allowed that behind Muslim thinking was the distinction between dar al-islam and dar al-harb; and while this may have had little effect on the actual course of events, it seems to have been present in the background. It is at this point that the basic question raised by Bat Ye’or’s book—the condition of the Peoples of the Book under Muslim rule—ties up with contemporary problems…It is of the utmost importance that Muslim jurists should consider whether such treatment of non-Muslims is in accordance with the Shari’ah or contrary to it. More generally, does the Shari’ah allow Muslims to live peaceable with non-Muslims in the ‘one world’ or must they regard it as dar al-harb? To have an answer to these questions may be a matter of urgency in a few years times. (William Montgomery Watt, Journal of Semitic Studies (London))

    It seems likely that in the new century of clashing civilizations there will either be heightened conflict or a breakthrough to something like the beginnings of a dialogue… A good place to start is to understand the history that brought us where we are, and to that end I warmly recommend a careful and critical reading of Bat Ye’or’s The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam. (Rev. Richard John Neuhaus, First Things)

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Talha
  268. @Parbes

    For the record I would say that you started by your offensive outburst at Marwan, post #17. My response was merely the equivalent of stepping in to help the host if one of his guests gets drunk and shouts across the table at one of the sober guests whom he only knows as a guest of that host “Wrong again! What a jerk!”. That would put you on the first of two strikes as a dinner guest for most civilised people – and then only if they were charitable. Or maybe, if your parents were old friends, the host would ring them and say “I hesitate to say this but your boy was over at dinner last night and I wonder if he has a problem…”

    • Replies: @Parbes
  269. @L.K

    She is pretty. A bit too thin for my taste, but pretty.

    Selena Gomez is pretty. Amal is beautiful.

    Maybe you are the one who is gay.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  270. @L.K

    Older ”name-calling’, broaha..

  271. Rurik says:
    @Greasy William

    Amal is beautiful.

    you go too far Greasy, but then that’s part of your charm

    like I said, it depends on the lighting

    barely a six, at best

    but with the right makeup, lighting and attire a- hard eight

    and way too skinny for my taste too

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @edNels
  272. Rurik says:
    @anon

    It seems likely that in the new century of clashing civilizations there will either be heightened conflict or a breakthrough to something like the beginnings of a dialogue… A good place to start is to understand the history that brought us where we are

    I would posit that this is precisely what Talha and I have been engaging in (to one degree or another), and least that’s what I’ve been aspiring to.

    • Replies: @Talha
  273. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Dear Talha,

    gay marriage is soon to follow?

    … Actually there is a very good case to be made for non-Muslim citizens of Muslim lands to have that right

    hmm

    “Diverse perspectives on homosexuality exist amongst Muslims, ranging from condemnation through to the Muslim Canadian Congress’s welcome for legislation redefining marriage to include same-sex partners. In the documentary, a number of Islamic scholars assert that the Qur’anic verse, “we created you as partners”, need not be limited to male-female couples. The documentary shows Muslim gay marriages (nikah) in the United States, Canada and India. It states that this diversity may lie at the heart of traditional Islamic practice. In the formation of the different Islamic schools of thought, which have now become different denominations, such as Maliki and Shafi, scholars accepted there could be different interpretations of Qur’anic Arabic and people could align themselves to whichever they felt represented them most. The documentary asserts that the modern-day call of the politico-religious right for a homogeneous Islam is a new invention, and not at all fundamental.

    Muslim countries are rated highest in porn searches according to the Pakistan Tribune[2] including gay porn.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Muslims

    May the Gods bless you with many sons, (and may they all like girls ; )

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @5371
  274. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Talk about an oranges and apples comparison.

  275. Rurik: Anybody can put random numbers on women, the proof is in comparisons.

    Name me a woman who is clearly more beautiful than Amal. Taylor Swift, Kate Middleton and Kiera Knightly are all on the same level as Amal, but none of them are indisputably more attractive. Since Amal is on the same level as other 10s, she is obviously a 10 herself.

    Diverse perspectives on homosexuality exist amongst Muslims, ranging from condemnation through to the Muslim Canadian Congress’s welcome for legislation redefining marriage to include same-sex partners.

    I think I’m going to throw up. Nonsense like this is what turns young Western Muslims into ISIS sympathizers.

    Not that I have a problem with gays or gay marriage.

  276. @Rurik

    Anmal seems have more testosterone than clooney,

    Nadja Haddad, a true non-euro-caucasian beauty.

  277. Solemnity says:

    Armenians and some others have always told you to be wary of Turks and Erdogan.

    But the weak, sick West always refused to listen.

    Now you see what you have let into Germany and the rest of Europe. Turks will destroy them.

    Europe beat back the Turks hundreds of years ago in the Balkans, but now you have let them just walk in.

    Idiots.

    The Right, the Left, the Americans, and Israel have always had this sickness of Turkophilism.

    We told you way, way back, but you all refused to listen.

    Now you fools adore Kurds too. What is so wonderful about Kurds? Name one thing. You can’t do it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Talha
  278. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Solemnity

    kurds are a thorn in the side of turkey . thats a good thing . potentially s thorn in the side of syria irak and iran also.

  279. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Indeed, an honest dialog is imperative – the risks are far too great otherwise. In truth, we should hope these issues will be solved by people more qualified, erudite, scholarly and level-headed and in positions of influence (on both sides).

  280. @Talha

    Interesting but it doesn’t answer the key problem – which applies equally to the supposed authority of the Papacy though at least the Catholic Church has a cleaner line of succession and source of ultimate authority (to wit God assisting the Cardinals to choose!).

    The test for trusting an eye surgeon to do his job in his important but narrowly defined area of expertise is completely different. He passes exams and is tested by existing experts all based on well tested results meeting scientific and statistical standards. And even so errors occur, including errors of theory comparable to errors (assuming for the moment it makes sense to say there is a correct version) of interpretation of sacred text. But my point remains that it is not a case like that of the scientifically and objectively untestable scholarship which your competing Sunni, Shia and other sectarian believers work up to a point where they are authorities for killing and mutilating people – and, since you have brought in economics, not charging interest on money, in other words not allowing for a democratically elected legislature to determine the rules on such matters.

    • Replies: @Talha
  281. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    Greasy, in his usual Greasy way (which is the charm in him, no doubt), brings up an important point that I’ll elaborate on.

    I do not know who these scholars are, nor their qualifications so I cannot comment. However, in principle, there are two things that alarm me.

    such as Maliki and Shafi, scholars accepted there could be different interpretations of Qur’anic Arabic and people could align themselves to whichever they felt represented them most

    Indeed, these jurists expressed these views, but who are the ‘people’ they were referring to? Tom, Dick and Abdullah? Anybody who was simply literate? Let’s be honest here, their audiences were gatherings of scholars and circles of learning; people like their students Imams Muzani, Zuffar, Shaybani, Ibn al-Furat (may God have mercy on them). Tremendous scholars in their own rank who sometimes arrived at conclusions apart from their teachers after evaluating the evidence. I think their hair would stand on end if someone suggested to them that the general public was applying these statements to themselves.

    Second point; if it is proposed that we can re-evaluate centuries of consensus on a given matter and overturn it in light of newly arrived at ideas of universal humanist concepts, then what possible argument does one present to those who say that the power-parity in modern war is completely off-balance and that guerillas/insurgents have a mandate to throw off the centuries-old unanimous rulings prohibiting the targeting of women and children in war? What is good for the lesbian goose may be good for the suicide-vest-strapping gander.

    Muslim countries are rated highest in porn searches

    Unfortunately, the Muslim world has been hit with a tsunami of smut. And I fear more from the damaging effects of things like this than random drone strikes. A ubiquitous presence of porn can destroy the family, the cornerstone of any healthy society. As Saladin (may God illuminate his grave) is reported to have stated:
    “If you want to destroy any nation without war, make adultery or nudity common in the young generation.”

    I am blessed with three boys and indeed, may they be preserved from the tribulations of the age. And may your sons be likewise.

  282. Talha says:
    @anon

    Thank you for referencing another book that will add to the dialog on this very important topic.

    I myself have not read it, but a couple of things immediately leap to mind when evaluating this summary – and perhaps it is just due to the fact that the summary may be an incorrect representation.

    In your reading of the actual text of that work, when the following claim is made:

    Islam deems doubly blasphemous the statement in the Book of Genesis that God created man in His own image.

    How does the existence of the following hadith qualify that conclusion in the author’s eyes:
    Reported by Ibn ‘Umar (God have mercy on him) – “The Messenger of God (pbuh) said: ‘Do not say ‘May God deform your face’ [a form of cursing in Arabic], for the son of Adam was created in the image of the Most Merciful.”

    Or the similarly worded hadith which is used as evidence by the jurists that it is prohibited to strike another’s face “for God created Adam in His image.” – Reported in Muslim

    Just wondering how the author squares the circle…

    Another point:

    does the Shari’ah allow Muslims to live peaceable with non-Muslims in the ‘one world’ or must they regard it as dar al-harb?

    What is the author’s assessment of 1) the Shafi’i school’s position on the classification of a third category called Dar ul-Ahd (Abode of Covenant/Truce) and 2) the strongest opinion in the Hanafi school that allows for open ended treaties that are not subject to a time limit and how those two relate to the possibility for adoption of the current international structures and conventions that exist in our time?

    May God bless you for taking your time to answer.

  283. 5371 says:
    @Rurik

    Come on, Rurik. You must know that those faggot liars are not more genuine scholars than their “Christian” analogues who claim homo “marriage” existed in mediaeval times.

  284. helena says:
    @Rurik

    You should check out Beowulf: Return to the Shieldlands. It’s a children’s TV series. The hero is beowulf – brown hair blue eyes. But all the tribes are various mixtures of north European, south Asian and African. I think the Romans referred to Scandinavia as the Shadowlands? Anyway, I’ve really enjoyed the series. But the costumes combine first millenium and medieval, there’s Egyptian architectural influence as well as stone age life styles. and so it goes on. It’s a sort of ancient ‘cafe at the end of the universe’. It’s hard to imagine that prepubescents watching it will infer anything other than that north Europe has been multicultural, like, for-ev-er.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  285. helena says:
    @geokat62

    That’s chreston isn’t it or are you anti-christ? I tend to think that someone who encouraged values other than profit is quite a good role model for society. Talking about narratives, one thing I’d like to see is a counter-argument to discussions about how well the economy is going such as, ‘sure but we live in a society.’

    • Replies: @geokat62
  286. helena says:
    @L.K

    I don’t find her beautiful and I’m really surprised so many here do. She reminds of the neighbour in Birds of a Feather. But I do find Princess Wotsit of Morocco, Lucy Liu, Ayaan Hirsa Ali beautiful. I guess I’m just not into the Arabesque look. I think maybe it’s the mysterious-eastern-promise look that men find enticing. men love a chase?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  287. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    What are you, “Marwan”s nanny? His lawyer? Isn’t that little neocon weasel capable of answering criticism on his own, without his teammate’s help? What kind of a name is “Marwan” for a neocon anyway? Have you Anglo Zio retards finally decided to go full Muslim? It’s so obvious that you’re a couple of neocon trolls covering for each other…yaaawn.

    As an aside, I note that neither of you pretentious fools are able to say anything about the original topic at hand, without immediately getting shot down by smarter and more knowledgeable commenters here.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  288. Avery says:
    @Talha

    What about Saladin?

    • Replies: @Talha
  289. geokat62 says:
    @helena

    That’s chreston isn’t it or are you anti-christ?

    I’m not anti-anything. I was merely pointing out the pre-Christian origins of Chi-Rho:

    “Χρίστος”, Chrístos, from the adjective “χριστός”, christós, i.e., “anointed” (or “chosen one” as is the Christian theological term for the Messiah), and

    “Χρήστος”, Chrēstos, from the adjective “χρηστός”, chrēstós, i.e., “useful”.

    Although both these words begin with the letters Chi-Rho, the pagan Greek scribes first used this monogram to mark certain passages as “useful”; before it was adopted by Christians as a symbol for the “anointed” one.

    Talking about narratives, one thing I’d like to see is a counter-argument to discussions about how well the economy is going such as, ‘sure but we live in a society.’

    Not sure where this is coming from…. you’ll need to elaborate a bit, I’m afraid.

    • Replies: @helena
  290. Talha says:
    @Avery

    He was Kurdish – I mean, I like the guy.

  291. Gerry1211 says:

    I would like to know how you managed to have been born in The Netherlands (holding a Dutch passport) as well as having been born in Switzerland at the same time(presumably holding a Swiss passport.

  292. edNels [AKA "geoshmoe"] says:
    @Rurik

    Boy oh boy, a bunch of history wonks and nit pickers going after the guys wife. Come off it there!
    I bet poor Clooney has seen enough of all that Hollywood… narcissistic mirror gazing, facial fetishing for a couple of lifetimes!

    I wonder if he met her filming the movie: Syriana?

    It is a good thing when ”pretty people” can hook up with mates that have more ordinary normal looks, it suggests something other than an all consuming selfishness may have a place in their life. That there could be some higher values competing or etc.

    If you want to diss the guys wife do it to his face! Didn’t you learn anything last week from the dust up between the Donald and Cruz, and don’t Cruz look like a chip off of ole’ Senator McCarthy? speaking about facial stuff.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  293. Rurik says:
    @helena

    Beowulf

    amazing isn’t it?

    and that is specifically what I’m talking about when I say “British” culture

    The England of olde was a place of old, white, racist men and women, and the sooner all their history is repudiated and scorned as the antics of vile and evil (and racist!) people, the better ; )

    the new England will not suffer all that racism

    it will be a glorious, new kind of England!

  294. Rurik says:
    @helena

    I don’t find her beautiful and I’m really surprised so many here do.

    just one guy does, Helena. The rest of us consider her OK, nothing to write home about.

    for a quick cursory look on the web

    I think the last one is my favorite

    • Replies: @helena
    , @L.K
  295. Rurik says:

    one of my all time favorites’

    God she was beautiful!

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  296. Rurik says:
    @edNels

    If you want to diss the guys wife do it to his face!

    who’s dissing her gauche?

    we’re saying she’s not bad

    and I’d even go as far as to give George props for marrying a woman with brains. (and also Muslim [sort of] while working in Hollywood) Also being a lawyer, she likely has a bit of bitch in there somewhere. Shows George can tame a shrew. Well done, we say!

    cheers

  297. @Rurik

    Beautiful white woman, she was a lefty too!! :)

    • Replies: @Rurik
  298. @Parbes

    I didn’t read Marwan till I came across your uncouth abuse and pettifogging arguable accusation of error of some kind. It was not to defend him but the UR readership who don’t trade in your currency that I criticised your offensive reply to him.

    I wonder why you should expect your petty nitpicking to be rated higher than what you allege to be my pretentiousness. When is nitpicking not pretentious?

    It is not difficult to refer to comments briefly by #[number] so I invite you to substantiate in my case your “without your immediately being shot down by someone by smarter and more knowledgeable than you” as I have spent decades professionally making sure that can’t happen and that, domestic circumstances and totally mad or illiterate company excepted, I have the last word.

    Spluttering and calling someone a fool doesn’t cut the mustard.

    Aha. I think I see a gleam of light. Perhaps you are one of the obsessive anti-Semites on this site and you have detected that Marwan is a Jew and (I guess) regularly argues against the more hateful tirades against Israel and/or Zionism. N’est-ce pas?

    • Replies: @Parbes
    , @Talha
  299. Rurik says:
    @Santoculto

    Beautiful white woman, she was a lefty too!! :)

    Jewish too

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  300. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You’re a lying and dissembling sack of cowdung (or maybe kangaroo dung?), like all two-bit neocon trolls… You “might” be fooling some weakminded sheeple “downunder” with your stupid sophistry; but you’re not fooling smart people like me and others on this website.

    1. “pettifogging arguable accusation of error of some kind”
    OK, I’ll bite, just to hammer it into the worthless mass of degenerate neural tissue that passes for your brain one more time: It was NOT an “error of some kind”; it was deliberate, seemingly offhand (actually underhand) pro-Chechnyan separatist propaganda.

    2. “It is not difficult to refer to comments briefly by #[number] so I invite you to substantiate in my case your “without your immediately being shot down by someone by smarter and more knowledgeable than you”…
    Go back and reread #171, you pretentious mediocrity, in which commenter “5371″ shot down within about 5 seconds the uninformed claptrap of your comment #163 regarding the so-called “Chechen Soviet Socialist Republic”. I didn’t even have to lift a finger!

    3. “…domestic circumstances and totally mad or illiterate company excepted, I have the last word”
    Not this time you ain’t, neocon dork-boy… You messed with the wrong person this time.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  301. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dear WoO,

    Sure thing, I agree; no way to ‘scientifically’ test interpretation of sacred law because it (like any other legal or ethics tradition) is not under the purview of hard science. And of course it is vulnerable to the weaknesses and fallibility of the individual, but there is a corrective function of the group – that is why we have things like the ‘majority opinion’ and the derivation of the soundest opinion (as in the link I posted). The question is, do you want someone that has graduated from Harvard Law (having studied Plato’s ‘Republic’, Magna Carta, etc.), served as a public defender or prosecutor, judge, appellate judge etc. having a say in the interpretation of the intent of the Constitution or somebody’s truck-driver uncle? Nothing against truck-drivers, they perform a necessary service to society, but they shouldn’t have a say in Constitutional Legal Theory.

    However, the proof is in the pudding – so to speak. The unqualified Sunni and Shia extremists are indeed baying for blood. The top scholars on all sides are taking the steps to halt the bleeding:

    http://www.ammanmessage.com/en/conferencesandsymposia.html

    Or they are collaborating to bring transparency to the financial markets in the Muslim world:

    http://aaoifi.com/standard/shariah-standards/?lang=en

    Or the like…

    Here are the fruits of janitors-turned-muftis:

    http://www.newsweek.com/meet-farid-benyettou-man-who-trained-paris-attack-suspect-cherif-kouachi-298028

    “By the time Benyettou was 22, Filiu writes, he was spending his time perusing jihadi websites and dressing in garb that primarily only Muslim preachers wore. When the mosque he belonged to expelled him, he joined another; it was there, The Washington Post says, that he worked as a janitor and met Cherif Kouachi.”
    “Benyettou operated in the margins of the religious community, defying the older imams and scorning their speeches,” Filiu writes. Benyettou, whom followers called Abu Abdallah, Filiu adds, “built up his own brand of Salafi-esque preaching, far from any established guidance, with a strong emphasis on jihad.”

    democratically elected legislature to determine the rules on such matters

    Correct. Legally, these transactions should (ideally) be prohibited or any transaction involving them should be legally invalidated in court. Yeah, but good luck holding out for that one, Muslim elite are up to their ears in usury. However, it should not be prohibited for the non-Muslim citizens since their religion or belief does not hold such to be impermissible.

    May God bless you and yours.

  302. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dear WoO,

    A sincere word of advice…this exchange is no longer fruitful. I think you both are aware of that, but I have communicated with you more so I have a better chance of getting through to you.

    De-escalation is a lost art; your time is better spent by dropping this exchange – and I know you’re smart enough to know it. You gave me sound advice in the past, I am returning the favor.

    In friendship.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  303. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Parbes

    Do you consider yourself a happy person ?
    You come across as a very unhappy person .

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Parbes
    , @Wizard of Oz
  304. helena says:
    @Rurik

    I think we pretty much agree on ‘beautiful’. The African woman is absolutely stunning but one doesn’t see many women who look like that. I think you like a slightly more girly face than me, I like quite horsey beauty, longer face – not surprising, I’m that way myself. I also like East Asian/Amerindian high cheek bones.

    Talking about TV, as well as multicultural ancient Scandinavia, I’ve noticed another trend, which is what I call the ‘dishevelled viking’ look. Happy Valley for instance. And when I was in Amsterdam last week I noticed quite a few women with the ‘dishevelled viking’ look. I’m developing that look myself. I would never put a st georges flag in my garden, but they can’t take away my hair! (yet).

  305. helena says:
    @geokat62

    Just rambling! There’s one commenter on here, it may be Art but I’m not sure, who peddles the line that christianity (with a small c) is really the only viable ideology for the sort of societies Europeans want. Commonweal societies. And I think that’s true. When people talk about religion they always focus on whether god exists or not. That to me is immaterial. If god exists then he invented evolution and there’s nothing more amazing than evolution. Buddhism has a lot in common with christianity but like Islam the deal is a unique contract between self and the infinite. Only christianity (and to an extent Hinduism but Hindusim is a very unique localised religion), opens people’s hearts to the world around them; and also opens people’s eyes to misdemeanors around them. Muslims will never criticise each other. Hence grooming gangs.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  306. Parbes says:
    @Anonymous

    What, you’re “Anonymous” now? What happened to “Marwan” and “Wizard of Oz”?

    You neocon trolls are pathetic. Why don’t you go ask your fatty uncle Murdoch to throw you a few more shekels this weekend?

  307. @Max Payne

    Good point. And if you must know, I’ve had the exact same thought myself. Our civilization is indeed decadent, so it often seems to have a negative effect on all kids, immigrant as well as indigenous. But if true, then my larger point still stands: importing yet more immigrants is not going to solve any of our problems; while offering some short-term relief perhaps, it will only worsen those problems even more down the road. In addition to a decadence problem, we will also have a culture-war problem too.

  308. @Talha

    Thank you but I’m afraid you find me enjoying the experiment. How far will he go with blustering assertion and insult when he is clearly in the wrong objectively and also as a matter of civilised manners by the traditions of educated modern society? It is of interest because he doesn’t commit gross errors of grammar or usage so, on the face of it, he’s unbalanced and I would find it interesting if he were to snap out of what seems to be something like a fugue state. What would he then say? Would he be embarrassed or even ashamed? How would he behave?

    You seem to overlook that he took off with a surprising bang, overlooking or ignoring the point Marwan was making, and calling him a “jerk” for including Chechnya within the description “country”.

    Of course he might just be a choleric alcoholic, depressed too because of the problems in his life caused by his alcoholism.

  309. @Anonymous

    His reply to you suggests that he doesn’t understand Ron’s rules for using pseudonyms and Anonymous or its variants. Not surprising in the light of his scattergun manner of expressing hostility to anything which rouses his ire.

    Not only could Marwan not use my pseudonym but the UR rules wouldn’t allow either of us to buy into the Parbes nonsense thread as Anonymous…

    • Replies: @Parbes
  310. geokat62 says:
    @helena

    Buddhism has a lot in common with christianity but like Islam the deal is a unique contract between self and the infinite. Only christianity… opens people’s hearts to the world around them…

    I beg to differ. The relationship between the self and the infinite is a subject that Plato analyzes in various dialogues. Here is a lengthy passage from Rebecca Goldstein’s excellent book, Plato At The Googleplex:

    [MORE]

    “Phaedo gives Echecrates the Pythagorean a complete account of Socrates’ last hours. It begins with Phaedo, together with a handful of other devotees, entering the prison cell to see Socrates “just released from his chains” (59e), preparing the way for the metaphorical depiction of death as a freeing of the soul from the “shackles of the body” (67d), a very Pythagorean conception. The extreme denigration of the body, its description as “a contamination” (66b) for which the soul’s purification is necessary, is an aspect of Pythagoreanism that Plato displays in the Phaedo, which is brimming with proto-Christian body-disgust. The best that this life can provide effects a separation from the body. This is what philosophy, strengthening our affinities to the abstract and impersonal, is (64 a). Whereas in other dialogues the abstract can be interpreted as embedded in the structure of this world, an immanence rather than a transcendence—this is certainly true of the Timaeus, and can be read into other dialogues, including the Republic—the Phaedo seems to remove the abstract to another place, beyond space and time, to which our better selves, with their affinity for the abstract, may just possibly retreat after the final separation from our bodies is effected. This is a notion of immortality which got absorbed into Christian visions of heaven.

    Phaedo, the former slave and catamite, is an appropriate narrator for a dialogue that conceives of death as both manumission and purification. He plays the role of Mary Magdalene to a Socratic Jesus. Plato makes a point of having Phaedo mention that Plato wasn’t present at this last conversation (59b), which I’ve always read as a distancing move on the part of Plato from the position that is being explored, together with Socrates’ argumentative tentativeness in actually affirming immortality. In other words, I don’t think that Plato was committed to the soul’s immortality in any robust heaven-is-there-to-receive-us kind of way. It was another proposition that Plato put on the table to explore, and, as usual, he sets the scene carefully. Socrates, his cheerfulness and objectivity intact, is facing a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and in a mood to give the Pythagorean proposition of survival after death his best shot, though either way—survival or not —he’s reconciled to his end. But the Christian Platonists, starting from the fourth century C.E., latched on to the Phaedo as giving Plato’s honest-to-God point of view, and through them the doctrine of the immortality of the soul has had a long afterlife.

    In other dialogues, most especially the Timaeus, a more attenuated kind of immortality is proposed. To the extent that we take into ourselves, in knowledge and in love, the True-the Beautiful-the Good, to that extent we achieve a kind of immortality. This is an immortality as impersonal as true knowledge. In fact, it’s nothing more nor less than wisdom, that state of being that fuses together knowledge of, and love for, to on. It is an impersonal form of immortality in the sense that it offers no promise that a something uniquely personal—one’s own self, bearer of one’s attitudes and memories— will survive the body’s death. No disembodied soul is appealed to in the Timaeus as it is in the Phaedo. Instead the kind of immortality that we can achieve doesn’t negate our mortality. We are immortal only to the extent that we lose ourselves in the knowledge of reality, letting its sublimeness overtake us. We are immortal only to the extent that we allow our own selves to be rationalized by the sublime ontological rationality, ordering our own processes of thinking, desiring, and acting in accordance with the perfect proportions realized in the cosmos. We are then, while in this life, living sub specie aeternitatus, as Spinoza was to put it, expanding our finitude to encapture as much of infinity as we are able. Or as Plato put it in the Timaeus:

    So if a man has become absorbed in his appetites or his ambitions and takes great pains to further them, all his thoughts are bound to become merely mortal. And so far as it is at all possible for a man to become thoroughly mortal, he cannot help but fully succeed in this, seeing that he has cultivated his mortality all along. On the other hand, if a man has seriously devoted himself to the love of learning and to true wisdom, if he has exercised these aspects of himself above all, then there is absolutely no way that his thoughts can fail to be immortal, he can in no way fail to achieve this: constantly caring for his divine part as he does, keeping well-ordered the guiding spirit that lives within him, he must indeed be supremely happy. And there is but one way to care for anything, and that is to provide for it the nourishment and the motions that are proper to it. And the motions that have an affinity to the divine part within us are the thought and revolutions of the universe.
    (90a—b)

    This notion of an immortality achieved within our (incurably) mortal lives is quite different from the possibility explored in the Phaedo. It is less Christian and more Greek. Just as the pre-philosophical Ethos of the Extraordinary had it, it is what we make of our lives in the short time that we’re given that alone can expand our lives—not outward into everlasting time but still into something extraordinary and “godlike,” and this is all the immortality that we mortals can know. Only it’s not in the “auditory renown” of widespread kleos that we can achieve this form of immortality. It’s by having, while we still live, our lives infused with infinity, our finitude “infinitized” by the vastness of beauty outside ourselves, allowing our love for it to overtake and dim even our love for ourselves. Outsized egos—even when attached to outsized intellects—are inconsistent with the life worth living as Plato envisions it.

    Plato states in the Timaeus that it is only the very few who can achieve this kind of life. And so, to the extent that the best life is conceived in these terms, the many are excluded. “And of true belief, it must be said all men have a share, but of understanding, only the gods and a small group of people do.” Understanding consists in seeing “the best reason,” which is, for him, mathematical in essence. Using the mathematics of his day, he makes a stab in the Timaeus at offering such best reasons, though fully cognizant that better mathematics, and so better reasons, most probably lie in the future. Plato confides that he’ll be happy to be trumped by the superior reasons offered by thinkers of the future mathematics— why else did he gather the best mathematicians of his day to his Academy?— describing their “victory” as that of his friends and not his enemies (Timaeus 54a). And again we remember how Socrates is set aside in the Sophist and the Statesman so that younger thinkers may carry the process forward.

    But then is the good life to be attained only by mathematical physicists? (I can imagine certain philosophy-jeerers perceptibly warming to Plato.) Is that “small group of people” so very exclusive? Not quite. Any of us who allow our circumscribed earthly existence to be opened up to the vast and beautiful reaches of all that is not ourselves—another word for which is “reality” is among the small group of people Plato has in mind. The means for opening to the infinite doesn’t only come in the form of pursuing—or appreciating—mathematical physics, not even for Plato. He mentions, for example, music as holding the power to strengthen our affinity with the True-the Beautiful-the Good and so ethically reforming us. “And harmony, whose movements are akin to the orbits within our souls, is a gift of the Muses, if our dealings with them are guided by understanding, not for irrational pleasure, for which people nowadays seem to make use of it, but to serve as an ally in the fight to bring order in any orbit in our souls that has become unharmonized, and make it concordant with itself. Rhythm, too, has likewise been given to us by Muses for the same purpose, to assist us. For with most of us our condition is such that we have lost all sense of measure, and are lacking in grace” (Timaeus 47d—e).

    Beautiful language, too, he says in the Timaeus, can carry us out of ourselves, providing the arrangements of words that, echoing with the harmonies of music, echo with the harmonies of the infinite (47c—d). This homage, brief as it is, to the transcendent powers of musical language offers the way for poetry to find its way back into Plato’s city of reason, a re-entry for which Plato confessed himself hopeful (Republic 607d). It’s not irrelevant that Percy Bysshe Shelley produced a stunning translation of the Symposium, nor that his friend, John Keats, would compose the immortal lines identifying beauty and truth, nor that many poets should have felt themselves directly addressed by Plato. Poetry that brings us in contact with the vastness beyond us— cracking us open to it and letting infinity seep in to expand our finitude in knowledge and in love— receives the Platonic seal of approval. Like mathematics and music and cosmology and philosophy, poetry, too, can “infinitize” us, granting us what immortality there is to be had in this mortal life. And all those who vibrate in harmony to language that itself vibrates to the harmonies of the infinite are entitled to inclusion among the “small group of people.”

    We can read into this passage an explanation for why Plato wrote as he did, lavishing his own soaring literary talents on the philosophical writings he left for us, however deep his misgivings concerning the linguistic enchantments that can override language’s all-important role, which is to state the truth. Beauty, for Plato, always has a leading cognitive role in guiding us to the truth and in allowing the truth to work us over; and philosophy, in trying to impose the beauty of the infinite on our being, should therefore strive to be as beautiful as it can. And so it was that Plato wrote the works of art he did, allowing the poet in him to escape and soar. (But to a human-oriented art, no matter how great, that wrings the pity and the terror from our incurable finitude, Plato can’t be reconciled.)”

  311. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Nice rules pedantry – but it still doesn’t change the fact that you’re a neocon dork-boy with nonsensical posts.

  312. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik to Helena:
    Helena “I don’t find her beautiful and I’m really surprised so many here do.”

    Rurik: “just one guy does, Helena. The rest of us consider her OK, nothing to write home about.’

    That is correct, Rurik.

    Now, for the A-grade material, here is a little list of mine;

    [MORE]

    Brazilian model/actress Ana Paula Arosio, just about perfect!

    http://www.listal.com/viewimage/6104603

    http://www.listal.com/viewimage/6104675

    http://www.listal.com/viewimage/6104660

    American model/actress Megan Fox

    Deceased Brazilian model Adriana de Oliveira, OD’ed in 1990.

    Jessica Biel, love this woman , super hot!

    Anne Hathaway, what a face, what a smile!

    Olivia Wilde, hell, i even watched a few of that terrible ‘house’ tv show, just to see her! :-)

    Italian former model/actress Monica Belluci

    Rachel McAdams

    If thin, still gotta have the right curves, hahaha, see brazilian model Cintia Dicker

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Greasy William
  313. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    As I gather from this article, his father is Dutch, his mother is from Russia, he himself was born and raised in Switzerland.
    An interesting tidbit. If his mother happened to be in Switzerland in 1963, then in most likelihood she is Jewish. That makes Saker a Jew.

  314. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    ouch!

    another hot blonde

    nice

    I hope people appreciate the grueling efforts at research we have to do to makes these posts!

  315. @L.K

    LK: if I were you I wouldn’t boast of your taste in women. It’s terrible. No wonder you are so bad at making sense of reality, you can’t even judge beauty correctly.

    Ana Paula: 5/10

    Megan Fox: 9/10 when she was like 16, has really hit the skids since Transformers (literally the worst movie of all time). Now she is a 5. That is 2 5′s in your first 2, hope it gets better…

    Adriana De Oliviera: 5/10. In fact, I’m starting to think you might be trolling

    Jessica Biel: 6.5/10. However she has a sort of sex appeal that is greater than her actual beauty.

    Anne Hathaway: yes. Agree.

    Olivia Wilde: 6/10. Is famous for the uniqueness of her look, not her actual beauty level

    Monica Belluci: YES!

    Rachel McAdams: big yes, but doesn’t always photograph well

    Cintia Dicker: 5/10

    Man, you have truly terrible taste in women. I actually am starting to feel sorry for you if you are not just trolling.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  316. Rurik says:
    @Greasy William

    Cintia Dicker: 5/10

    there’s nothing wrong with being gay Greasy

    perhaps you should embrace it, like

    a 5?!

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/110760472058908025/

    perhaps you’re looking in the wrong places

  317. Is this some kind of sick joke? She has one of the most plain faces I have ever seen. Nothing wrong with being plain, I’m ugly as sin, I’d kill to be plain, but this chick is plain as the night is long. I would rate her as substantially more plain than Reese Witherspoon or Ally McBeal (forget her real name) and they themselves are the personification of plain.

    We need a neutral 3rd party* to evaluate these women because I feel like I have entered some kind of twilight zone.

    No wonder we can’t agree on middle eastern politics.

    *NOT The Saker. I think he is probably gay and even if he isn’t I bet he has really bizarre tastes in women. Not helena either, I don’t trust women to rate other women’s looks. No Giraldi, I’m sure he has really bizarre tastes as well. Not Unz, same reason.

    How about Razib? I think he would be a good neutral judge.

    • Replies: @helena
  318. helena says:
    @Greasy William

    “How about Razib? I think he would be a good neutral judge.”

    Well, I think your perception of neutral is biased! 0-

    Anyone who’s looking for a pixie, might try the bottom of the garden!

    But glad to see the deep chin is popular. Kate Winslett, for instance.

    Connie Briton, Kate Moss, Lauren Bacall, Grace Kelly, Eva Mendez. I rest my case.

  319. woodNfish says:
    @Max Payne

    (white people on the top wouldn’t be opening up the flood gates of immigration if they had some sense of morality)

    They sold their morality for monetary profit.

  320. woodNfish says:

    the only thing which currently keeps Turkey together and gives it a kind of immunity is, of course, the protection of the United States, NATO aka the AngloZionist Empire. Get rid of one, and the other will soon follow.

    This must mean The Saker supports Donald Trump for President because Trump has said we should get out of NATO. Good man!

  321. […] Jerusalem and Netanya also experienced inflows.” Well, no wonder many French nationalists and anti-Zionists are so suspiciously […]

  322. @anon

    anon,

    You say “no” to the idea that the Muslim immigrants are in Europe to stay. In the past they could be rooted out, and in America a Trump could eject some, but only some as the Dems and many Muslim groups in the US would legally fight tooth and nail to keep every one of them here. Like most immigration since ’65, most Muslims vote Dem.

    Europe has no Trump, only national quasi Trumps working in national Parliamentary systems, where our equivalent of “big players” over there can join up even though enemies just to keep the “non Team Player” out of any leadership role. Here, Trump can win official leadership of a party, and the nominal leadership role of the country, and actual leadership of so much.

    So maybe a teeny bit ejected here, and many kept out. But in Europe none ejected, and the PC elite (not just Merkel) sees it as their holy duty to import as many poor Muslims as possible. As for “holy,” religion is only allowed if it furthers PC, and of course if its Muslim.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  323. Rurik says:
    @DevilDocNowCiv

    Europe has no Trump

    On the day, the hour, the minute that the US untangles itself from the Zio-infestation of its leadership, and frees America from the ravages of Zio-imposed suicide of its ethnic whites (when its’ not using them as cannon fodder to fight wars for Israel), on that day… then all of Europe would be free too.

    It’s the Eye or Mordor, the Federal Reserve Bank- out of which their nefarious power emits, and from there the corruption of all the governments of the Western world. Crush the Fed, and watch the assorted orcs of Zion fall like so many unplugged robots.

    Sweden, freed from the demon’s spell, would go after the orcs like a berserker crossed back over the river Styx, kisses from the Valkyries still on their cheeks, and the African and Muslim hoards would go running and screaming for their lives like so many chickens from a lad sent out to fetch one for dinner.

    I figure the change in attitude would take about 24 hours- from decades under a suicidal spell, to freedom and glory and hope. The US, Canada, Europe and Scandinavia. (Russia and Iceland have already jailed their bankster scum and are becoming ascendant once again), but they’re having to fight their brothers still under the spell.

    End the Fed!!!

  324. woodNfish says:

    After giving this column an evening of thought I find it amusing that the Saker, who lives in russia and sucks up to it any chance he gets, thinks the russians are some kind of example for the rest of us. He goes out of his way to mention that it took the russian leadership 50 years or so before they were no longer afraid of their own citizenry. What BS! Russians are like the frogs you kill by sticking them in room temperature water and ten turning up the heat until they boil to death. How else do you explain Stalin’s ability to slaughter 50 million of them, or the death camps in Siberia? Russians are sheep, just like Westerners.

    As for the Sakers concept of Europe, what has Switzerland given Western Culture? Lederhosen? Chocolate? Crappy knives? Crooked bankers? Can anyone name a famous Swiss artist? How about a Swiss author? Nope. Yet Saker dismisses the contributions of Greece (art, philosophy, science), Italy (art, literature, philosophy, the Roman Empire, science), and France (art & philosophy, literature, science), all of which have contributed to the advance of Western society as a whole and from which the Saker has befitted his entire life. And the Swiss contribution to the West? Nothing.

    I do agree that the West is now committing cultural suicide pushed by the wealthy, business and the political leadership. Changing it will probably take a violent civil war.

    • Replies: @Talha
  325. Talha says:
    @woodNfish

    Changing it will probably take a violent civil war.

    Or they could just start getting together and keeping families solid and having a bunch of kids and teaching them about the values that made them great. Doesn’t that seem like a more long-term and less sanguinary solution? Within a generation or two, the demographics are fully back on their side.

    Otherwise – no policy is going to solve people not having kids – which is the essential problem.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  326. woodNfish says:

    It would probably help, but it does not change the leadership and business issues. As long as the west continues to import people of foreign cultures that do not share the values and history while promoting multiculturalism, there will be problems. Multiculturalism is balkanization and it only leads to civil war. The only other choice is assimilation, but to return to assimilation requires that multiculturalism be destroyed. They are not compatible.

    I am not hopeful that can happen. I think the only way it will change is through the violent purge of the multiculturalists and the Left where they live.

    • Replies: @Talha
  327. Talha says:
    @woodNfish

    I think the only way it will change is through the violent purge of the multiculturalists and the Left where they live.

    Wow – OK. But doesn’t this go against all the principles that people look up to in the Constitution? Are you saying people should be killed for espousing a political viewpoint?

    I mean, are you willing to just go house to house and exterminate Leftists? No trials? Or maybe kangaroo courts like in Stalin’s age?

    I’m kind of confused…will you part with all the principles the society is built on in order to vouchsafe those same principles?

    Or are you saying, that’s where it all leads to, but you don’t necessarily agree with the means?

    I’m not trying to be difficult, just getting to the meat of the matter.

  328. iffen says:
    @Big Bill

    How can we just up and have another Potsdam Conference? Don’t we need a major war (WWIII) first?

  329. iffen says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    It’s a while since Hawaiians felt that.

    Checked with any ethnic Hawaiians on this?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  330. woodNfish says:

    There is no constitution. It is a figment of your imagination.

    As I wrote, the only end to balkanization is civil war. I did not add, “and usually genocide”, but that is also true. There is a reason it is called “balkanization”. Read about the breakup of Yugoslavia.

    • Replies: @Talha
  331. Talha says:
    @woodNfish

    OK – I see your point. Still doesn’t answer my question about the Right/Left divide among ethnic Whites themselves, but that’s OK…

    I know quite a bit about the tragedy in that area; my wife and I traveled there to do relief work.

    May my eyes and the eyes of my children never look upon such horrors until they see the dust of their graves.

  332. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Otherwise – no policy is going to solve people not having kids – which is the essential problem.

    just to chime in here Talha,

    one of the main reasons, if not the main reason white folks aren’t having kids at replacement rates are because they see no hope for any kind of future for their progeny. All they can see is the strife and hatred and how whites are legally considered second class citizens and put out of jobs or promotions due to their race. That may be negligible on the ledger of actual monetary sacrifice, but spiritually, being told that you come from a vile race of oppressors who don’t deserve the job or promotion or university slot, because you’re wicked, and ‘you didn’t build that’, and your ancestors were all evil and enslaved better people than they were- are all very powerful ways to insidiously destroy a people’s vital sense of dignity. Their, in a word, vitality.

    So as the “others” pour in, it won’t help to have children if your children are going to grow up with hatred and scorn. Diversity + proximity + war. That is one of the iron equations of history and it’s just as true today as it’s ever been. All you need to do is open your eyes to see this is true.

    So no, the solution to mass immigration of alien peoples with alien ways is not to breed more soldiers for the great looming mother of all wars, in fact the American continent (and indeed the entire planet) has all the people it will ever need. We don’t need more, we need less. We need quality over quantity, and the ‘others’ will inevitably feel the imperative to impose their ways and their ethnicity and their genes on whatever society we humans find ourselves in.

    That is the way of nature, Talha, and of human history and current events, and always will be.

    So, Muslims and everyone else stick you your countries, unless you come as temporary and invited guests, and we’ll do the same, with respect for your countries and your ways. That is how you avoid strife, and make young people want to have children again, and prevent hate and slaughter in your future and theirs.

    May the Gods always favor you and yours with wonders and happiness

    • Replies: @Talha
  333. @iffen

    Touché! But that was the best case I could find for him and he can’t get any benefit for his argument out of a third party rescue of just one of his three examples which he treated as identical for his purposes.

    I don’t believe the Inuit of Alaska ever had a kingdom (unlike Hawaii) so I could have chosen Alaska. I think Florida’s pre-Columbian history is beyond rescue for present purposes.

    Mind you I think the native Polynesian Hawaiians are a probably at a population level where even Chechens would give up…..

  334. Talha says: • Website
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    Your thoughts are always welcome.

    it won’t help to have children if your children are going to grow up with hatred and scorn.

    I agree with you there – and I do think it is a shame that only the negative aspects of European (and her children like the US and Australia) history come up and that the positive is completely glossed over. A people must have a strong sense of self and identity. Something that gives them grounding – something that connects their past with their future. For me, it is a spiritual and knowledge based identity. So I look up to and give credit to mountains of knowledge and piety like Ata Ibn Abi Rabiah (may God be pleased with him) who was the first Imam of Makkah and also a Black Abyssinian as much as I do the spiritual masters of Transoxiana down to my teachers from the Indian subcontinent. But, from my interactions with you, I can understand your viewpoint. If one comes from a secular vantage point, then race becomes the predominant identity.

    So, Muslims and everyone else stick you your countries, unless you come as temporary and invited guests, and we’ll do the same, with respect for your countries and your ways.

    Again, that makes total sense from your vantage point. I may not agree fully, but you are consistent in your application of the principles, which is praiseworthy.

    prevent hate and slaughter in your future and theirs.

    Again, a very laudable goal – especially because of how modern war is fought.

    At this point, Rurik, I’m going to be signing off. For a long time, if not for good. My latest interaction with Joe Webb, and a recent talk I heard from the erudite Shaikh Hamza Yusuf (may God preserve him) on the value of one’s time made me rethink some priorities. When I responded to Joe, I did so in a cynical and sarcastic manner and it felt good. I’ve been learning at the feet of my spiritual teachers long enough to be wary of that sign; that was vanity, that was insincerity. When the lead horse is out of the barn, the others will follow unless you corral it back. My interaction with you and some others has been beneficial and fruitful, and you have my thanks; with most others, not so much. I sometimes research an answer for hours before responding and many times it is dismissed by opinion or responded to with uncivil invective. That puts feelings of bitterness in one’s soul – and I’ve been taught not to feel as such towards anyone. Maybe an anonymous forum is not the right platform to talk about such heavy matters like war, religion, public policy that may require the expulsion of people from their homes, etc. – this is a recent mode of human interaction. It tends toward bring out the worst in everybody – so I guess the jury is still out.

    I’m sure some will be happy that I’m not posting anymore; it’s good that their last interaction with me brought a smile to their face.

    Please forgive me if I do not respond to any future posts. If ever in Chicago, let me know; dinner is on me.

    As always, I remain in need of your prayers, and may God grant you a spouse and children who are the coolness of your eyes.

    In friendship.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Rurik
  335. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Oh – and I forgot to mention that this was causing me to fall behind in my studies which was getting very difficult for me to justify.

    • Replies: @iffen
  336. iffen says:
    @Talha

    When I responded to Joe, I did so in a cynical and sarcastic manner and it felt good.

    I have enjoyed your comments.

    You could have gone away without telling us what a big waste of time we are.

    • Replies: @Talha
  337. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Even if you don’t read these words, I will say for the record and to the universe that I’m grateful for the edification and knowledge of things I know so woefully little about, from your efforts here at Unz, my friend Talha.

    We don’t always agree, and that’s part of the fun, but you do have a sublime mind, and a kind heart, two things I have much respect for. If you leave, you’ll be missed sir.

    If one comes from a secular vantage point, then race becomes the predominant identity.

    I’m not sure about this. I’m certainly not obsessed with race. Except insofar as my particular race is targeted for genocide and subjected to unfair treatment from the state. If it weren’t for the throngs of other races who’re obviously hostile to mine flooding into the ancient homelands of my race and the way whites are discriminated against by the PTB, I don’t think I’d even give it any thought. How often do the people of Iceland think about race? Ever? That’s because they are not targeted and threated or persecuted because of their race. Not yet anyways.

    So if it’s your religion that your being persecuted for, like the Shiites or Christians of Syria, then you rally around your people and oppose your people’s enemies. It’s the same with race. When the Hutus are killing the Tutsis in Rwanda, then the Tutsis rally around their tribe. They become patriotic and circle the wagons, so to speak.

    If I mention race, it’s because mine is today being targeted for destruction- for all time and eternity. And I c0nfess, I believe there’s something there worth preserving- all the genocidal hatred coming from (very few) certain other races notwithstanding.

    That’s on a macro level. But on a personal level, I love people of all races and all creeds and all beliefs. Indeed, I immerse myself in their cultures and idiosyncrasies and revel in their celebrations. A smile is a smile. And a frown is a frown. I’ve tolerated just as many assholes who happen to be white as of any other race.

    People are people. I’ve known them of every race and religion and nationality and flavor. I love the kind of diversity you experience when you travel, and think some places being diverse have been a great boon. Hong Kong comes to mind. Istanbul. (what a rich and fascinating history!) NYC and Montreal. But on the other hand, like the Amerindians found out, too much diversity can be a bad thing. And I’d prefer the people of my heritage, not go that rout, (pun intended) if it can be avoided.

    So, just let me say again dear Talha, that your efforts here and your vast knowledge do not go unappreciated. Yours is the kind of voice that forums like these need. Diverse perspectives that help those of us caught in an information iron dome see what’s out there. And glimmer a better understanding of the kind of cultures and religious beliefs and perspectives that we’ll never get from our televisions or magazines or even on most parts of the English speaking Internet.

    Keep educating yourself and others, and may God bless you in all your efforts.

    Namaste’ to you my friend.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Talha
  338. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    [If I mention race, it’s because mine is today being targeted for destruction- for all time and eternity. And I c0nfess, I believe there’s something there worth preserving- all the genocidal hatred coming from (very few) certain other races notwithstanding.]

    You do feel so, now, do you? And I gathered you believed that sentiment to be an exclusively Jewish canard!

    May your gods preserve you and your children on this ancient Norwegian soil.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  339. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Dear iffen,

    You could have gone away without telling us what a big waste of time we are.

    I thought that this may have been taken this way. For that, I apologize, for that was not my intent. As I mentioned, my interaction with some (like yourself) has been “beneficial and fruitful” and you have my gratitude. I consider none of our interaction to be a waste of time; civil and cordial discourse is always welcome in my book. However others exist and yes – I think I should have prioritized my time better in regard to them (and it wouldn’t have been as much a problem if I wasn’t pressed for time – four kids don’t raise themselves). One can say I’m being thin-skinned. Sure, maybe that’s it, but as they say, “if you can’t stand the heat…”. I am not as concerned with other people’s behavior, but when I see certain signs in myself – big red lights go off – otherwise I risk becoming the same kind of voice that I don’t like being on the receiving end of. Do you want another of those clogging up your message box?

    This kind of soul-baring is not my style, but I felt I owed it, specifically to Rurik (who has been a great person to converse/spar with) to explain myself – instead of just dropping off into nowhere.

    As I mentioned, I may be back in the future, but it is apparent to me I have a lot of spiritual house cleaning to do first.

    Please forgive any offense my words may have caused.

    May God treat you as an honored guest wherever you go; in this life and the next.

    • Replies: @iffen
  340. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    Your clarifications are acknowledged and make sense.

    Your words about the respect you have for all people (even if at a comfortable distance [:)]) only confirmed my estimation of you.

    Again, my friend, God bless you wherever you go.

  341. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    If I mention race, it’s because mine is today being targeted for destruction

    You do feel so, now, do you? And I gathered you believed that sentiment to be an exclusively Jewish canard!

    no Sam, there have been people all through history that have been genocided

    Consider the Neanderthals of Europe, and obviously going back hundreds of thousands of years before that, humanoids (in one form or another) have been wiping each other out over territory and living space. It’s simply been nature, ‘red in tooth and claw’, as they say.

    Since “civilized times”, there have been of course the genocides of the Amalekites and Midianites, ordered by the Old Testament God Himself, (as I’m sure you’re aware ; ) We’ve seen both the south and north Amerindian genocided, either off the face of the earth, or blended into something different (who were often busy doing that to each other before the white man got here) We’ve seen the ethnic French genocided out of Haiti, the Armenians genocided and the Kulaks genocided and the Jews genocided and the German genocided. Lots and lots of genocide to go around. So it isn’t like this isn’t something people like to do. We’ve all read SC accounts of those Jews (like Morgenthau) who demanded the complete and absolute genocide of the German race as the only final solution.

    And I’ve never said the Holocaust was a canard Sam, just that if I’m expected to accept every word of the often ludicrous accounts- as gospel, or that I’m damned as a “Holocaust denier”, then by all means, call me a Holocaust denier until the cows come home. I don’t believe something or say I do based on threats. And I’d hope you wouldn’t either Sam.

    The Holocaust happened. Jews were ethnically cleaned and often murdered and genocided out of many parts of Europe. {Like they periodically have been throughout history, but that’s another st0ry, and I’m no expert on that}.

    And many Jews were also calling for the final solution to the German question as a genocide of all Germans, and at the end of the war, they sort of got some of their wish, with many, many millions of Germans expelled and enslaved and yes, murdered.

    So this atrocity has been haunting humanity since the beginning.

    For some reason I just thought of the British inventing concentration camps to genocide the Dutch farmer out of his lands in South Africa, in order to steal the resources there. Lots and lots of genocide and slaughter.

    Ukraine, Cambodia, Rwanda…

    I will say that the genocide they have in mind for Europe is more like the genocide that was visitied upon the south American indigenous peoples. A sort of blending away of the offensive traits; like blonde hair and greed eyes, for instance. Or that tenacious habit of creating amazing and beautiful things that make others resentful and jealous (because they can’t). Once those offending traits are blended away, by force if necessary ~

    then others won’t feel so bad about themselves, perhaps.

    But their hurt feelings aside, I still harbor an affection for my kind, simply to persevere. It has nothing to do with hostility to any others.

    The thing is, what some people call Western civilization persevering, is for other people the most vile form of racism and not to be tolerated.

    • Replies: @iffen
  342. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    like blonde hair and greed eyes, for instance.

    There were plenty of greedy Indians around before the Europeans arrived, still are for that matter. So I don’t think you have genocided away that trait.

  343. Rurik says:

    Oh stop picking on my typos!

    I noticed that after I posted it and was thinking thank goodness nobody reads this stuff anyways ; )

    also, it does sort of ‘work’ in a way

    greed eyes

    remember her?

    • Replies: @iffen
  344. @utu

    “I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive.”

    Un-fucking believable.

    Israel is to be the worlds only non-multi-culti society,

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  345. @Talha

    Talha, you won’t find many regular Unz commenters here who would predict that ANY African country would be a civilized, advanced, safe, prosperous, happy place to live, regardless of the dominant religion there.

    Let’s reframe this to address your ridiculous point: anywhere that is Islamic and/OR African is not a place we’d want to live, and not a place we’d generally emulate.

    Go back to worshipping your pedophile prophet now. (Can you tell us, by the way, how old the various “wives” of muhammad (disgrace be upon him) were when they were made to “marry” him? How about Aisha in particular?)

    • Replies: @Talha
  346. Talha says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Parthian shot…

    https://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24

    George Mason University historical research – here’s to you Delaware.

    Please don’t bother responding – I won’t reply.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Avery
  347. @Anonymous

    And we wouldn’t be dealing with your whiny, backwards ass if the US government had had the sense to finish the job. Unlike most of the us government’s wars, taking the territory from the VERY, VERY few and usually unstable / roaming Indians and putting it to use for our civilization was actually in the interest of OUR people.

    By the way, do you think your savage ancestors would have shown mercy and even put whites on reservations if THEY had prevailed? Hell no. We know how those noble, innocent Indians typically treated enemies when they defeated them, including other tribes.

  348. @Talha

    if that’s all it took to get you the fuck away from me, other Unz regulars might get jealous … of me ;)

    DBUYMIPP. Disgrace be upon your mentally ill pedophile prophet. Since I know you folks can’t utter a sentence without an embarrassing, odd, slavish, time-wasting incantation like pbuh.

    • Replies: @Talha
  349. Talha says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Seems I was a bit presumptuous…another arrow in the quiver…

    The historical data on age of consent laws from George Mason University (https://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24) confirms the research of Prof. Jonathan Brown (may God preserve him) that none of the critics (even from Modern, Post-Enlightenment, Humanist, Christian Europe) brought up the age of Lady Aisha (may God be pleased with her) before Margoliouth in 1905, because “they were all marrying underage girls too.”

    If one wants to apply this accusation (child-rapist, pedophile, enabler) against their own ancestors (prior to Post-modernism in the 1900s), feel welcome to do so. Beware you are opening yourself to being charged with calumny by the same people who birthed you on the Day of Judgement.

    Glad my leaving leaving is a source of your happiness; you can’t hold that against me on that Day and say I harmed you in any way.

    Out of arrows…I’m out – f’real tho’.

    Peace.

  350. Avery says:
    @Talha

    Historical is historical, modern is modern.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/jan/19/religion-islam-saudi

    { Feminism Saudi style
    A senior Saudi cleric is outraged by plans to raise the age of consent to 15

    An extraordinary story that originated on the AP wire, which reports that the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, who is the country’s most senior cleric, has been shocked by the recent court case in which an eight-year-old girl tried to apply for a divorce. It seems to him dangerous creeping liberalism.

    “We hear a lot about the marriage of underage girls in the media, and we should know that Islamic law has not brought injustice to women,” said the Mufti, Sheik Abdul-Aziz al-Sheikh, when asked a question after one of his Monday lecture.

    “A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her. Our mothers and before them, our grandmothers, married when they were barely 12,” he said.

    Incidentally, the eight-year-old girl was not granted her divorce: the court in Ozeira, in the interior of the country, decided that her mother had no right to bring the case on her behalf, and that the matter would have to wait until she reached puberty. This decision has been condemned by the government’s own human rights commission.

    Still, the story does something to explain why Cosmopolitan has never taken off in Saudi: the women in its target age range are all grannies.}

    8-year old girl.
    Comment please, Talha.

    • Replies: @Talha
  351. Talha says:
    @Avery

    Historical is historical, modern is modern.

    Impressive one-line summation of why Western Christianity can’t hold the line against gay marriage or any other moral goal-post change that comes down the pike. You have denounced your spiritual ancestors – they had no clue what they were doing morally (according to your implications) for 19 centuries of Christian scholarship (Catholic and Protestant). For the record, I think Aquinas could fit all the pastors and bishops of today in his pocket – and he never said a word about this.

    For the answer to your other question, watch the video.

    “Every time I think I’m out, they pull me back in!” – Costanza

    Rurik, you see what I’m talking about here? If I respond again, please, please yell at me; friends don’t let friends…you know…

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Avery
  352. Sam Shama says:
    @Bill Jones

    Israel is a multi-cultural : Poles, Germans, Russians, Yemenites, Iraqis, Iranians, French, Indians, Ethiopians, levant Arabs, Egyptians, Druzim etc.
    Religions: At least 5 jewish sects, 3 Christian sects, Sunni Muslims, Shia muslims, Gnostics etc.

    So for a country which is really no bigger than the state of NJ, it has more cultural variation than most of Europe and USA.

    The Palestinian question is thorny, no doubt, and if the entire population is allowed to become full Israeli citizens, then almost surely they will fuck up the country, its social, commercial and technological infrastructure. Those are facts, directly observable from recent history [and eugenics]. Numbers are of the essence. We have to come to an estimate of a stably maintainable arab ethnic group and compensate and resettle others in neighbouring countries. That is the most rational framework.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @geokat62
  353. @Sam Shama

    We have to come to an estimate of a stably maintainable arab ethnic group and compensate and resettle others in neighbouring countries. That is the most rational framework

    We have to do the same with secular and “traditional” Jews as well. Only National Religious and Haredi Jews have a right to live in the Land of Israel. The Druze and Bedouin probably will stay. The Christian Arabs have to go; every last one of them. Not really sure what to do with the Muslim Palestinians. A case by case basis, I suspect.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  354. Sam Shama says:
    @Greasy William

    aegri somnia sicut fellates

    Grease you do need…..

  355. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    greed eyes

    Yes, it does work in a way. Too bad we don’t have Freud to kick around anymore.


    thank goodness nobody reads this stuff anyways ; )

    You have Talha to thank for my reading of your comments. I had long ago put you on CTI, but after reading some of the exchanges between you two I decided to give you another look. Don’t mess it up.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  356. iffen says:
    @Talha

    Please forgive any offense my words may have caused.

    As before, no offense taken. I would not hesitate to let you know if that was the case.

    I accept that it was not your intent, but there was a definite “pearls before swine” implicaton.

  357. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    : )

    Glad you’re still here, fighting the good fight Talha.

    why Western Christianity can’t hold the line against gay marriage or any other moral goal-post change that comes down the pike. You have denounced your spiritual ancestors – they had no clue what they were doing morally (according to your implications) for 19 centuries of Christian scholarship (Catholic and Protestant).

    This is something I’ve had debates over with my Christian relatives, friends, etc… as they’ve watched with horror as the cultural and spiritual foundations of their world have been blown to bits beneath their feet, and homosexuals have demanded access to the Boy Scouts.

    I’ve tried to tell them that if they look to scripture for the arguments against the progressive liberals, they’re going to lose every time.

    Progressive liberal:

    ‘Why shouldn’t gays have equal rights as straights?’

    Christian: fumbling through his bible, looking for passages..

    ‘ahh, it says right here! right here at Ephesians 5:3 or Leviticus 18:22 blah, blah, blah’

    and the rest of the assembled, modern day, overwhelmingly secular jurists listen to these arguments and it’s a no-brainer. The gavel comes down and the Christians lose- every time.

    Think Scopes ‘Monkey Trial’. And this was in 1925 in the southern state of Tennessee. And the Christians still lost.

    Scripture just isn’t a cogent argument over modern day legality or societal proscriptions anymore, and personally I don’t think it should be. Anymore than the Quran for that matter. Or any other book written before we humans had the benefit of the (fruit of ; ) knowledge of all the sciences and historical records of archeology and anthropology and biology and zoology and how all those things have effected philosophy and our modern spirituality.

    Sharia law terrifies me Talha, at least insofar as the thought of Westerners being subjected to it starts to look like a possibility.

    I think of the West when we were burning “witches” at the stake. That’s how I see ‘honor killings’.

    Separate, but equal. We respect your culture (in your own lands), and you respect ours, (in our own lands)

    and therein lies the peace, no?

    As for the Christians losing every battle because they look to scripture for their arguments; I’d use a different approach. I’d say homosexual marriage is unnecessary because homosexuals are not generally interested in a lifestyle of lifetime commitment to raising children (regardless of modern divorce rates). I’d say they’re notoriously promiscuous, ravaged by disease and subject to all manor of afflictions. Their suicide rates are off the charts, their psychological pathologies are myriad, and subjecting a child to such disorienting sexual role models- if not down right inimical to their natures- is cruel and even potentially monstrous. (who doubts that some homosexuals would try to raise their otherwise straight children to be homosexuals?)

    Gay couples should be able to enjoy all the benefits of married couples in all ways except the word ‘marriage’. The institution of marriage is an ancient one and is considered a sacred covenant between a man and a women and God. By calling a union between homosexuals a ‘marriage’, what the activists are trying to do is tear down the ancient cultural foundations of our civilizations and impose a new, amoral, infinitely malleable new kind of morality and social norms that they’re able to define at whim. Not just a rejection of God and all known traditions and our collective heritage, but a rejection of our very real, hardwired human nature.

    Humans are universally repelled by homosexuality. It’s a terrible affliction that we should all collectively feel compassion for those so afflicted. But due to the (literally) insane drive for equality in all things, does not mean that we as a society should impose homosexuality, with all of its known tribulations and hardships, on to our children.

    Those are the kinds of arguments I’d make. Not flipping through book of infallible ‘truths’ written when we thought the world was flat and a facial tick was proof-positive evidence of witchcraft.

    Those are my thoughts on the subject, for what it’s worth.

    May the Gods guide our tentative and earnest struggles to understand Their ways with compassion and love and patience

    • Replies: @Talha
  358. Rurik says:
    @iffen

    Too bad we don’t have Freud to kick around anymore.

    touché

    I had long ago put you on CTI

    hmm

    of course, I’m sure you’re not the only one ; )

    but I’m always curious in a way as to why

    I suppose for many, it’s my strident defense of the right (imperative) of the West to retain its cultural and ethnic identities. For this, I suppose many consider me a reprobate and unrepentant racist. Alas.

    so I took a cursory look at your posts

    and I guess you find my efforts to fall under the banner of ‘conspiracy theorist’, eh?

    Ok, no problem. I think it’s perfectly fine for honest people who simply can’t ‘go there’, whenever that’s the case. Sometimes tho it’s just a little hard to tell them from the apologists for things like the attack on the USS Liberty- as an honest mistake.

    Those people tend to fall under what I consider ‘shills’, and I’ve been known to be occasionally intolerant us such commenters, if I’ve determined (no doubt occasionally in error) that they’re being disingenuous.

    I did find this gem in your recent post:

    As a general rule I read everything, not really afraid of contamination.

    then one wonders why you’d decided to pass over my efforts here, if you’re not worried about reading things you disagree with- (those are the views I tend to seek out!)

    But then again, I’ve been accused of being long-winded! Can you imagine?!

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
  359. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    I can’t extricate myself can I? For you friend, one more round.

    Leviticus

    How a Christian can refer to the Old Testament for legal code is beyond me. Otherwise, why are they eating pork? Is it just cherry-picking? If so, again, good luck trying to hold the line…some want pork, some want to pork.

    Scripture just isn’t a cogent argument over modern day legality or societal proscriptions anymore

    Absolutely…unless it forms the bedrock of that very legal code. Christians started dropping that at Westphalia.

    Sharia law terrifies me Talha, at least insofar as the thought of Westerners being subjected to it

    Shariah itself dictates that Shariah cannot be applied on non-Muslims in their personal and civil affairs – this is consensus ruling among the Sunni Orthodox schools; they have their own court system. Muslims who think otherwise are; either vigilantes or going against sound majority Orthodox opinion. The exceptions were; if they brought cases to Muslim courts or were dealing with a Muslim, in which case the Shariah donalds – I mean trumps – the other law. See for instance a quick summary into how the Ottomans (Hanafi) implemented this – though they weren’t always consistent or just in it:

    http://www.britannica.com/topic/millet-religious-group

    Basically, they way we feel is; if you want to marry your daughters – fine, want to charge usury – welcome, want to drink alcohol – suit yourself, want to swap wives – have fun. From the traditional perspective, the resulting consequences of a society that veers away from the Divine Law is simply a argument of the validity of the law itself – the proof is in the pudding.

    For the record, I think you are killing yourself if you drink alcohol, my friend, but I’m willing to go to blows for your right to do so – because man cannot take away a right that God has allowed.

    And, also for the record, Shariah law terrifies me too insofar as how it is being implemented in ignorant and often blood thirsty ways. If I outlined how difficult it is to get stoned for adultery, you would probably agree that it constitutes an individual’s ‘Darwin Award’.

    You know me by now – Muslims are in a horrible state, spiritually – we have no excuse and I make no excuses. We are condemned by the very law that we are purporting to praise. Until we come to terms with our situation, we will be subjected to humiliation at our own hands and the hands of others.

    “Thus We let some of the oppressors have power over other (oppressors) because of what they have earned.” 6:129

    Honestly, things like Brussels and Easter bombing in Pakistan have literally brought me to tears. I am befuddled at the antics of Muslims while we read in sound books of Islamic Jurisprudence:
    It is prohibited to backbite the Dhimmi like a Muslim because he has been contracted with the Dhimmah, he has obligatory rights like which we have so, as it is prohibited to backbite a Muslim, it is likewise prohibited to backbite him. Indeed they (our scholars) said: The oppression of the Dhimmi is worse.

    A Muslim is prevented from saying to the Dhimmi: “O Disbeliever!” or “O Enemy of God!” So as to cause harm or offense to him by use of these expressions and the Muslim deserves a punishment upon doing this.

    Both rulings from the Hashiyah of Imam Ibn Abideen (may God illuminate his grave) an 18th century scholar whose work is “(in most cases) final word on most legal issues” in the Hanafi school:

    http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2012/11/20/hanafi-texts-the-difference-between-primers-and-reference-works-in-islamic-law/

    That’s how I see ‘honor killings’.

    Same here…

    “The concept of honor killing has no basis in Islam. In fact, it is a major crime. A person guilty of honor killing will be put to death in an Islamic state where the qādi (judge) has the right to regulate and implement capital punishment.” – Mufti (Hanafi School) Hisham Dawood (I actually know him personally)

    Separate, but equal. We respect your culture (in your own lands), and you respect ours, (in our own lands) and therein lies the peace, no?

    Undoubtedly, this seems to be the trajectory unless cooler heads prevail and we get past this impasse. I’ve always thought Malaysia seems to have a generally good model as does Russia.

    Hey, there is a bright side to everything – if I get kicked out and have to move the family – you’ll visit me in Selangor, right? The climate is awesome!

    And now you can yell at me since I asked you to if I responded- ;)

    May god preserve you and yours…but not the Fed!

    And Talha exists – stage right…

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Rurik
  360. Avery says:
    @Talha

    You clearly avoided the gist of the issue, and are misdirecting: won’t work.

    There was a discussion about child marriage in Muslim societies brought up by a poster. To counter the strike against Islam, you introduced a link where it listed several counties and age of consent. Some, e.g. Russia, age of consent was 10 in 1880. Now it is 16.

    That is the context.
    In that context I asked you to comment about modern mores in the birthplace of Islam, Mecca, Saudi Arabia and the “divorce” issue of an 8 year old (!) girl.
    Not in 1880, but in 2009.

    What does homosexuality have to do with to with this: {…the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, who is the country’s most senior cleric, has been shocked by the recent court case in which an eight-year-old girl tried to apply for a divorce…}

    You got cornered, you can’t explain away the legally/religiously sanctioned marriage of an 8-year old girl in the heartland of Islam, so are throwing up a lot dust to obscure.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Greasy William
  361. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Doh! God – not god

    Yikes! I seek refuge…

  362. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    for things like the attack on the USS Liberty- as an honest mistake.

    The attack on the Liberty and the MLK assassination are the two prominent “conspiracies” that I do not dismiss out of hand.

    I actually can’t remember exactly why I stopped reading your comments. I like to read the comments and my time is limited so I look for short cuts. I will review some of your comments (you are prolific) and see if I can see why I might have stopped reading them. As I said, I have read some of your last ones and you do make a contribution to understanding and identifying the political catastrophe that has befallen us. I am trying to improve my understanding of certain concepts such as what does it mean to be a racist or anti-Semite and how does that “fit” within the political system that we have in the US. Thanks to another commenter, Joe Webb, I have also tried to become a better commenter and not throw out loaded words without actually thinking about whether they apply. Maybe you are like me and want to know why you think what you think and how do you know what you think you know.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  363. Talha says:
    @Avery

    May God forgive me…

    No, I am not cornered at all – you’re simply not putting two and two together. As Prof. Jonathan Brown (may God preserve him) states clearly (did you even watch the video?) – the pre-modern Shariah ruling is “a Shariah marriage agreement is valid at any age and consummation should only take place when the woman is physically able to bear it, but the ruler – as the ruler (meaning government) can restrict (proceduraly) what can be registered as a marriage.” So it becomes a matter of local ‘urf or custom – which has legal status.

    Thus, if the people in the US or Turkey or Brazil, etc. decided that, we no longer want to allow the marriage between a 10 year old and an older man – that is fine – the Shariah recognizes the right to do that. If some families in some cultures (like Bedouins in Arabia, Sahara-faring Touareg, jungle-tribes in Java, or the people of Massachusetts – https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage) decide they still want to marry their girls (or boys) early – so long as the consummation takes place when she is physically able to bear it – usually with menarche** – then the Shariah confirms their cultural prerogative.

    This is a universal religion that spans across all periods and all cultures – it does not bow down to the (changing) tastes of one particular branch of them who deem themselves to be gods to judge the morals of others. Or cultural chauvinists that make fun of others for still swinging from trees when they themselves climbed down just a few decades ago. Again, if you want to say Christian Europeans and their branches (US and Australia, etc.) were all pedophiles/child-molesters/enablers – until people of your viewpoint prevailed in the 1900s – go for it. Face Peter, James the Just, Paul, Calvin, Aquinas, Luther on that Day and condemn them to their faces.

    As for us:
    “Our Lord, forgive us and our brothers who preceded us in faith and put not in our hearts any resentment toward those who have believed. Our Lord, indeed You are Kind and Merciful.” – 59:10

    **Sometimes a woman may not experience menarche until years later due to medical reasons – so there would be no need to wait. Also, menarche or onset of puberty is the only factual, biological definition of the word ‘adult’ in human beings (as it is used for biological ‘adult’ animals in any other circumstance – one that is ready to procreate), otherwise it is up to culture and convention. This being the case, our mother, Lady Aisha (God have mercy upon her), based on her own testimony (of age 9) falls in the category of biological adult as menarche “can happen as early as age 9 or as late as 15.”

    Source: http://www.webmd.com/children/tc/menarche-topic-overview

    Please, don’t waste my time with this subject any more, I will not respond as I don’t have anything more to say. I am hoping people can see the points I am making and decide for themselves what appeals to their intellect.

    Peace.

  364. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    I see now why I stopped reading your comments.

    A lot of your comments can be summarized as, “It’s the Jews what done it.”

    I only need to consider something like this a few times, not over and over.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Greasy William
  365. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Dear Tahla,

    …some want pork, some want to pork.

    shouldn’t you have to make some kind of contrition for this ?

    Scripture just isn’t a cogent argument over modern day legality

    Absolutely…unless it forms the bedrock of that very legal code.

    ahh, but you see… I suspect scripture was formed out of a bedrock, instinctive understanding of our own human natures. ‘Thou shalt not kill’, wasn’t that one of Dr. Moreau’s first laws for his animals turned ‘men’? If wolves or dolphins needed to codify their social compact into a written contract, isn’t that the first one they’d write into law? I don’t feel bound by a religious dogma of any kind, yet the idea of causing harm is beyond me. I simply don’t feel any desire or inclination to do so, quite the contrary actually. Without even being admonished, I’d prefer to cause cheer and good will rather than the contrary if it were up to me.

    I suspect most people under most circumstances are like that naturally. And if there’s a thug who’s causing others harm, then I wouldn’t need a book to tell me that as a man, it’s my job to protect the vulnerable from a person that would do them harm. Most of the stuff in our holy books seem to me just the sort of stuff animals who live in social groups have figured out naturally. ‘Don’t covet your neighbor’s wife’. If a stray lion wanders into another lion’s pride, the last thing he’s going to do is sidle up to a lioness and hope for a liaison. Rather he’s going to show submission and hope he holds out some hope of being useful to the pride so they might take him in. Just like people behave, unless they’re looking for a fight.

    Until we come to terms with our situation, we will be subjected to humiliation at our own hands and the hands of others.

    Not just Muslims Talha, Westerners too.

    “Thus We let some of the oppressors have power over other (oppressors) because of what they have earned.” 6:129

    this works both ways, no?

    I am befuddled at the antics of Muslims while we read in sound books of Islamic Jurisprudence:

    I wonder Talha if you’re not projecting your own scholarly civility on some of your less scholarly or civilized fellow Muslims. While you’re pouring over tomes, and looking for the wisdom of the ancients, they’re “thinking” let’s cut those guys heads off so we can rape their daughters! As you know, just because people have called themselves “Christians’, certainly doesn’t mean that they’ve acted like the Christ. Just look at the tens of millions of Christian Zionists in the US, and how they’re rabidly bloodthirsty for the lives of (often fellow Christian) Palestinians. The Christ would die -again- with dry heaves, vomiting if He could see what they advocate in His name.

    I’ve always thought Malaysia seems to have a generally good model as does Russia.

    There’s been strife in Russia. Especially in the Caucuses and especially in Chechnya as I’m sure you know. I pity all those involved. It seems a tragedy to me, even tho I know so little about it all. (one more reason why your participation here is so vital sir!)

    you’ll visit me in Selangor, right?

    I’d be humbled and honored to do so, my friend

    …but not the Fed!

    extremely well said!

    and the best to you too… by the Gods!

  366. Rurik says:
    @iffen

    Maybe you are like me and want to know why you think what you think and how do you know what you think you know.

    wow

    was that ever very well stated

    and that has been my quest since I can remember. Your concise, succinct words touches something very, very deep. Going back to when I was a very young man.

    And it can be extrapolated into the nascent foundations of religion and philosophy itself. Why are we here? What are we? Where did we come from? What is the truth?

    well, to one degree or another I suspect I’ve gotten a little bit of a handle on a couple of those. And I guess it’s the last one that I’m after most of all. And it’s an on-going process, and never ends, but life is a journey after all, and not a destination.

  367. Rurik says:
    @iffen

    “It’s the Jews what done it.”

    ahh, OK

    that’s a tough one

    I’d prefer to leave that one alone too, for a lot of reasons. Just consider for instance that our host here on this website is a Jew. And that there are myriad and subtle taboos against sounding ‘anti-Jew’, including being considered a person of the very worst sort of character imaginable. So it isn’t for personal amusement that I regretfully find myself pointing out some of the more egregious things Israel has done, (and alas, is doing)

    I’m also certain you’re not the only one I’ve alienated. Either here on the Unz Review or in my personal life.

    Sometimes I’ve tried to make the argument that Israel doesn’t need or even deserve our support, and this has caused some cold shoulders for me.

    I’ve made a comment while watching a Hollywood movie about ‘the Jews’, this or that, and have seen the eyes rolling. It’s very much a faux pas

    There’s nothing personally to be gained by criticizing “the Jews’, certainly not in American culture or society, so if I do so on occasion, it isn’t to make friends, but because, as I’ve just mentioned to you, I’m always trying to get at the truth. One of the things I love about this website, and have said so previously, is that when I say something in error, it takes just moments before I’m corrected. Perhaps that’s one reason why I occasionally say things that might be considered provocative. I’d like to know if I am indeed in error…

    ‘Israel wants the US to destroy Syria so it can steal the Golan Heights’

    then I wait…

    or ‘Jews are in control of our Federal Reserve Bank, and this gives them unprecedented and disproportionate power and influence over the institutions of our society…

    I wait to hear how I’m wrong. Perhaps I want to hear how I’m wrong. But no doubt there are many who don’t even like the subject being brought up. I get that and I respect that. It doesn’t mean I won’t continue to speak freely, just that I entirely respect and understand if that may alienate you and others. But I will say it that I find the impasse a regret. I hate the idea of losing out on insights or keen observations because of being like a bull in a china shop vis-a-vis taboos. And ‘the Jews’ aren’t the only taboos I routinely ignore. I also occasionally eviscerate Christians when I consider it necessary. And I curse like a sailor when I can’t find any other words that suit. Many, many other faults to be sure. But for all of it, I still value more than anything the truth on any and every subject, no matter how inconvenient or discomforting I may ultimately find it to be. And there are no positions, if they’re held in good will and honestly, that I don’t respect.

    So anyway, cheers to you,

    Rurik ~ the flawed

    • Replies: @iffen
  368. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    The Palestinian question is thorny, no doubt, and if the entire population is allowed to become full Israeli citizens, then almost surely they will fuck up the country… Numbers are of the essence. We have to come to an estimate of a stably maintainable arab ethnic group and compensate and resettle others in neighbouring countries. That is the most rational framework.

    Hey, Sam. I’m struggling to reconcile this comment with a previous comment you addressed to me:

    Hi Geokat. Without a doubt I support a 1SS with equal rights for all citizens. Which is precisely why we question Naftali Bennet’s plan; apparently it has changed from his original sketches.

    http://www.unz.com/article/america-the-exceptional-awards-night/#comment-1181371

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  369. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    Jews are in control of our Federal Reserve Bank

    Who do you want managing your money? Maybe you would prefer a bunch of Gypsies instead of Jews.

    Ha! Just kidding. I think all of the “banksters” are criminals, Jew or not.

    You mention that I should consider that Unz is a Jew. I keep seeing that in the comments. My view is that it does not matter to me. I can’t think of anything that would change in my mind. I would still whine about some of the worthless writers. I would still try to encourage him to add more writers of the Kirkpatrick quality. What could change? What would be different? If he is or isn’t, what changes?

    Israel wants the US to destroy Syria so it can steal the Golan Heights

    They have had it for what, 50 years now? Syria can’t take it back whether it is a unified country or not. I had a little bit of this discussion with some other commenter. Israel seems to get along pretty well with stable established polities such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Why do they want chaos? The last time they fought a non-state (Hamas in Lebanon) they got all they wanted and were happy to leave. This is not saying that they don’t meddle in other countries (they would be stupid if they didn’t), I just can’t see it here.

    This is not saying that I don’t resent the outsized political influence of Jews in the US, I do. I resent the outsized influence of blacks in the Democratic Party, hell, I could make a list. The fact is that we are a meddling country. We would be meddling and getting into wars even if there were no Jews in the US.

    Why are we here? What are we? Where did we come from? What is the truth?

    I am afraid you may be going too deep for this old worn out brain. I just want to know whether universal suffrage will allow the selection of virtuous leaders? Can common people really be successful at managing their own political destiny?

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @helena
    , @Rurik
  370. @Avery

    That is the context.
    In that context I asked you to comment about modern mores in the birthplace of Islam, Mecca, Saudi Arabia and the “divorce” issue of an 8 year old (!) girl.
    Not in 1880, but in 2009.

    The context doesn’t matter. Nobody is claiming that there aren’t serious problems in the Islamic world. The point is that there is nothing inherently pedophilic about Islam as opposed to Christianity (or Judaism or Hinduism for that matter) as witnessed by the fact that Orthodox Christian Russia had no problem marrying off 10 year old girls in the late 19th century. Since then, Russia has modernized in a way that large portions of the Islamic world have not, so of course parts of the Islamic world are going to be backward.

  371. @iffen

    A lot of your comments can be summarized as, “It’s the Jews what done it.”

    Aside from his taste in women, he’s really not so bad. He’s a bit of an acquired taste. He is one of the rare Judeophobes who one can speak rationally with.

    As for being repetitive, it’s the internet. It’s supposed to be repetitive. We are here to yell at each other, not change anybody’s mind.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  372. geokat62 says:
    @iffen

    Pardon the interruption, but I just wanted to comment on a few of the points you made in your previous post:

    Why do[es Israel] want chaos?

    Have you had the opportunity to read PNAC’s A Clean Break or the Oded Yinon Plan, A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties? I think these two documents make a clear case as to why sowing chaos in the region is to Israel’s benefit.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf

    The fact is that we are a meddling country. We would be meddling and getting into wars even if there were no Jews in the US.

    Agreed. But the US would be meddling and getting into wars in pursuit of the national interest. Have you had the opportunity to read Mearsheimer and Walt’s The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy? They make the case that the Lobby is influencing the US to launch wars in the ME that are not in the national interest.

    http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/IsraelLobby.pdf

    Can common people really be successful at managing their own political destiny?

    What’s your preferred alternative?

  373. helena says:
    @iffen

    Iffen, I heard Jared Taylor talking for the first time the other day and I was pretty surprised by his accent. I think I’ve only heard that accent before in period dramas. Are you able to shed any light on where/who has such an accent, please?

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @L.K
  374. iffen says:

    What’s your preferred alternative?

    I don’t have one. Depending upon the time of day I still have a sort of childlike faith that competent leaders will arise that truly care about all of our citizens and will gain control of the political levers and reform the US into a decent nation for common people. A good description would be a Messianic political organization.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  375. iffen says:
    @helena

    I don’t know anything about him. I have read a little by him at Amren. A couple of years ago I actually bought his book on Kindle. I was curious as to how an ethnogenesis for “white” people could be depicted or envisioned. It was a major disappointment and I am embarrassed to admit that I paid money for it. There is zero political or philosophical insight or groundwork in the book. It is just one very long listing of heinous crimes committed against white people by non-white people.

  376. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Hey Geo,
    This is where the purely moral covenant [argued in the Talmud] has to negotiate the murky waters of reality – systems that yield optimally to second best solutions.

    Increasingly clear to me [as I am sure it has to most others here], a 1SS with equal rights to all citizens was an idea, whisper of it and it might sway, speak of it loudly and it surely vanishes.

    I am not about to justify with clever arguments, the devastation, as is being wrought upon Palestinians by Bibi Netanyahu:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-demolitions-idUSKCN0X41TA?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

    The P.A is basically like the Vichy regime. They cannot materially pursue any actions, consequential enough to slow Bibi on his tracks. In this environment, where the global undercurrents favour nationalism, seeking purely moral solutions are futile. If Hillary comes to power [I give it a 70% odds] expect things to get worse for Palestinians as the global economic growth and distribution worsens further. Under these constraints I am seeking a solution that preserves a semblance of justice for the Pals.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  377. Rurik says:
    @iffen

    Who do you want managing your money? Maybe you would prefer a bunch of Gypsies instead of Jews.

    Oy!

    If he is or isn’t, what changes?

    not much, granted

    Israel wants the US to destroy Syria so it can steal the Golan Heights

    They have had it for what, 50 years now? Syria can’t take it back whether it is a unified country or not.

    they don’t have to ‘take it back’, it still belongs to them. There’s simply an illegal occupation of the land being perpetrated by a rogue regime who temporarily is being backed by the world’s only superpower. The day, the minute that the US decides to stop backing Israel- no matter what- is the day they’ll simply have to march out of the Golan just as they marched in.

    Israel seems to get along pretty well with stable established polities such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

    “established polities” = completely corrupt stooges of the UZA

    Why do they want chaos?

    Now there’s a damn good question. Because the chaos allows them leeway to alter the realities on the ground. Chaos allows them to occupy other people’s land in the hopes of one day being able to call it their own. Chaos allows them to move their borders around at will, depending on how well they’re able to use international pressure and military aggression and just pure treachery to steal land and foist their aggressive and hegemonic agenda. Simply really.

    The last time they fought a non-state (Hamas in Lebanon) they got all they wanted and were happy to leave.

    whoo boy

    that’s a reach. Come on now, you’re not that naïve. They got their arse handed to them, but good.

    This is not saying that they don’t meddle in other countries (they would be stupid if they didn’t), I just can’t see it here.

    I just don’t get it. Every time they meddle, as you call it, they earn hatred. Both from the people whose countries they’re meddling with, and from the entire international community. Israel is the most hated nation in the world, depending on which polls you read, second only perhaps behind the US. Both because of their incessant meddling.

    I’m a regular guy. I don’t meddle in the affairs of my neighbors. I like to live my life without causing anyone else harm or grief. That’s my nature. But if someone tries to meddle with me or mine, then they sure are going to be in for it, and but good. That’s how it works. If you act like a gentleman and good neighbor, that’s more or less how you’ll be treated. But if you act like an asshole, then people are going to have it in for you.

    The fact is that we are a meddling country. We would be meddling and getting into wars even if there were no Jews in the US.

    I don’t agree. Most Americans are opposed to wars for fun and profit. Most American voted for Wilson and FDR and JFK and Nixon and other because they promised to keep us out of wars. Only to be relentlessly betrayed. I myself voted for George ‘the chimp’ Bush in his first election because he specifically said he “wasn’t a nation builder’ , but I was lied to and betrayed. As usual. So if you want to say “we are a meddling country”, I’d just like to add the caveat that ‘it’s the US government (and the banksters and Zionists and MIC running that government behind the scenes) who are meddlers, and not the American people, who pay the price for all that infernal and disastrous and catastrophic meddling. For the record.

    Can common people really be successful at managing their own political destiny?

    better than the Satanic forces driving those common people to the brink of an Orwellian boot on their necks for all eternity, I’d say.

    I’d prefer a leadership picked out of any phone book in the country, or hell, in the world, than what’s coalesced in Washington DC these days. It’s hard to imagine a more nefarious bunch of psychopathic fiends than those making policy today in the bowels of Moloch’s colon that we call our fecal, oops, I mean federal government today.

    IMHO ; )

  378. Rurik says:
    @Greasy William

    He’s a bit of an acquired taste.

    we’re often very much misunderstood, huh Greasy? And underappreciated, as all great personas usually are.

    as far as tastes go, I wouldn’t worry about that too much. You’re in fine company. Michelangelo and Oscar Wilde, Ernst Rohm and J. Edgar Hoover, even contemporary celebrities like Caitlyn and Benjamin Netanyahu. There’s nothing to be ashamed of anymore these days.

  379. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    In this environment, where the global undercurrents favour nationalism, seeking purely moral solutions are futile.

    So morality and nationalism never mix, but morality and globalism do?

    If Hillary comes to power… expect things to get worse for Palestinians… as the global economic growth and distribution worsens further.

    So the fate of the Pals is a function of these two factors? And here I thought things would get far worse for them b/c HRC has entered into a Faustian bargain – i.e., in exchange for becoming the first female POTUS, she would take the ‘special relationship’ with the Zionist entity to “the next level.”

    I must say, Sam, on the basis of your more recent comments, I’m concerned that you have either suffered a relapse or you were feigning a change of heart in the first place.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  380. geokat62 says:
    @iffen

    What about points 1 & 2?

    • Replies: @iffen
  381. iffen says:
    @geokat62

    I haven’t read those particular items.

    It’s not that I haven’t read explanations of how and why “the Jews what done it.” It’s that I do not accept the explanation as logical and valid. You can say that my mind is closed to the Jewish explanation if you want.

    If someone such as myself agrees with someone like Rurik that our political leaders are criminals and they need to go, why should we have to agree on the cause of their criminality in order to cooperate in their removal?

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @helena
    , @Sam Shama
  382. geokat62 says:
    @iffen

    I haven’t read those particular items… You can say that my mind is closed to the Jewish explanation if you want.

    Got it.

    • Replies: @iffen
  383. helena says:
    @iffen

    “It’s that I do not accept the explanation as logical and valid. ”

    I think what swung it for me was, to borrow a comment I once saw at Unz:

    Every. Damn. Time.

    Sailer uses the term ‘noticing’, and I think that’s a good way to look at the situation; it’s about recognising patterns of behaviour.

    Then, of course, there are the many, many extracts and video clips where Jewish people talk openly about the need to end ‘European majorityism’.

    SolontoCroesus’ ‘germania delenda est’ hypothesis has a lot going for it. It seems ridiculously far-fetched and yet here we are, a germanic civilisation guided for the most part by Jewish intellectuals and financiers and with Israel wielding enormous power in the US govt. US and Europe are destroying themselves through their concerted efforts to kill Arabs. Does that seem like a logical and valid way for a germanic civilisation to behave?

    • Replies: @iffen
  384. Rurik says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Wow

    what can you say to that?

    they’ve become so filled with self-hatred and self-loathing that they’ve morphed into the very opposite of men. They’re anti-men.

    The problem with Norway isn’t the Somalis. They could be dealt with in a fortnight. The problem with Norway and the West is guys and attitudes like this politician. The Somali may be a savage rapists and a sub-human thug, but I have a thousand times more respect for that animal than I do for this politician, or anyone who votes for it.

    I know a little about history, but I can’t find in my memory banks anything so egregiously and viscerally humiliating than a man who wallows in guilt for his rapist. You want the perfect scenario of a dilemma:

    You’ve got both these men standing in front of you, getting ready to leave and carry on with their affairs in Norwegian society. And you’ve got a gun, but only one bullet. What to do? What to do? What to do?
    That’s a tough one! But the politician gets it. Not because it will solve anything, being as he’s a product of what they’re doing. But just out of sheer compassion. Like shooting a mortally wounded horse. He’s far, far, far better off dead.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  385. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Please re-read what I wrote. Carefully. Especially regarding second-best options. Also, its good practice to examine one’s own stands on matters as things evolve. I might point out, for instance, Holocaust revisionism seems to have newly afflicted a few [I have repeatedly said this in the past, I am not interested in the number of Jews killed, only that it occurred, and I choose to remember it; and encourage others, e.g., Armenians to never forget the tragedies that befell their own peoples. Its that simple. I don't consider the Jewish Holocaust to be any different that other tragedies that humankind unleashed on itself, amongst diverse ethnic groups]. Whatever it is you are trying to achieve in the way of social justice, if you think you can get to what you consider to be the pinnacle, you will likely find yourself a penny short.

    It’s a good idea, before one gets swept away by self-indulgent righteousness, to not accuse others of insincerity. We are all keepers of our own souls.

    In any case I revise my stands and actions as the data and environment change. What do you you do sir?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  386. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen

    I agree with your position Iffen.

    Also geokat, holding a view that PNAC [dated] and M&W, are the last words on the matter, sounds dangerously close to orthodoxy.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  387. L.K says:
    @helena

    Hey Helena,
    I’ll offer my 2 cents on Jared Taylor… he seems to be an elitist as#hole and, much worse, lacks a backbone. Limited hangout probably.

    A few years ago, i ran into the guys website. It’s marketed as anti-immigration, pro-white/european, while, at the same time, TOTALLY avoiding the d-e-c-i-s-i-v-e Jewish participation in the ideology of multicult, open borders(for europeans and for countries with majorities of people of euro descent), white guilt and so much more.
    Several writers there are themselves jewish.
    If one desires to rant against non-white immigration into the US, for example, but does not even have the guts and intellectual honesty to tackle the massive role of organized jewry in promoting it, and the reasons why they do it, then it is a non- starter.

    In the comment section, i saw some quite frankly nauseating and truly racist comments against blacks, hispanics, middle-easterners and other non whites but not even respectful critical comments on organized jewery.
    I gave it a go; made a comment critical of black americans, no problem. Then i tried to make a comment critical of the jews, never got published.

    Funny too is the fact that to jared taylor and his pals, the jews, or at least, askhenazi jews, are white people*, even though the most recent genetic studies show them to be a composite population, about half european, half middle-easterner.
    Yet, according to some of the bizarre nordicist claptrap pieces i saw published over there, greeks and southern italians are perhaps not european enough, even though modern genetics show that both have very little non european admixture and are basically withing the euro avg for non -euro admixture.

    * in the narrow sense of being europeans, as there are of course, non-euro caucasoids in West Asia, North Africa, etc.

    • Replies: @helena
    , @joe webb
  388. iffen says:
    @geokat62

    What about my last paragraph?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  389. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    In any case I revise my stands and actions as the data and environment change.

    Ok, Sam. Whatever you say.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  390. iffen says:
    @helena

    Sailer uses the term ‘noticing’, and I think that’s a good way to look at the situation; it’s about recognising patterns of behaviour.

    We see what we want to see, me, you, everybody. If I have seen the pattern before, or if I know what the pattern should look like, I can find it. This is has been demonstrated and repeatedly verified by quality scientific studies.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
    • Replies: @helena
  391. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Also geokat, holding a view that PNAC [dated] and M&W, are the last words on the matter, sounds dangerously close to orthodoxy.

    Could you be a little more specific about where and why these documents fall short in your estimation, Sam?

  392. @Rurik

    That’s easy. You shoot the Somali and then beat the Norwegian to death with the rifle butt.

  393. helena says:
    @iffen

    No, Iffen! smiley. I didn’t want to see the pattern. I grew up in a Jewish area. The school I went to was 50% Jewish; atheist, liberal, reform, orthodox. My dearest oldest friends are Jewish (but they both went off ‘down under’). When I first saw as sites I was horrified. I didn’t read them. I still don’t like vitriol and caricatures. I find some of KM’s stuff offensive. But listening to public speakers in the UK and reading Jewry websites, made me realise that Jewishness, Jewish people, Jewish money, determine/influence a lot of what passes for Western Civilisation. I didn’t balk at the idea, I was more surprised to discover the world was not as I thought. Only recently have I read some of the more highbrow critiques and analyses. My argument is only that these things should not be taboo to talk about – truth to power the quakers say.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @iffen
    , @iffen
  394. helena says:
    @L.K

    Agree with every word.

    Don’t want to seem ungrateful, but my question is about JT’s accent. I remember now where I’ve heard it, Rayna’s wicked father in Nashville.

    JT pronounces the h in what and who.

    [watching a lot of Nordic Noir, I wonder if the pronounced h might come from the much more exaggerated wchlwh that swedes still have. Or maybe it comes from Welsh llych?]

    So, I just wondered, which southern region/social class specifically does JT’s ve’y slow gentlemanly accent come from? Is JT from the southeastern states, which in Fisher’s Folkways, I think descend from English Cavaliers. I’m just curious. I enjoy tracing population movements and ethnic origins.

  395. Sam Shama says:
    @helena

    [But listening to public speakers in the UK and reading Jewry websites, made me realise that Jewishness, Jewish people, Jewish money, determine/influence a lot of what passes for Western Civilisation.]

    Of which vintage do you believe, is this a fact ? Is it centuries old, or do you believe it to be relatively recent trend? Could it be that Jews assimilated in Europe and that left its mark? [All the accoutrements that you associate with Jews, were always there, and most European Jews, especially Germans totally integrated with the locals].

    You see, what Iffen alluded to earlier is true; perspective produces the “pattern”. I am quite familiar with the British [even English], as I am with the middle-eastern-jewish cultures, and therefore frequently detect how strongly Europe influences the latter.

    • Replies: @helena
  396. iffen says:
    @helena

    a germanic civilisation guided for the most part by Jewish intellectuals and financiers

    As one of those wise Roman philosophers said about 400 AD, “Payback is gonna be a m**f***er.”

    Jewishness, Jewish people, Jewish money, determine/influence a lot of what passes for Western Civilisation

    They are 1 SD more intelligent. What do you expect? Intelligent people do extremely well. How many Sephardic Jews are on the Federal Reserve Board?

    • Replies: @helena
  397. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Just a follow-up question, Sam.

    Do you mind telling us what were the dramatic changes in “the data and environment” you observed in the last 6 months (when you wrote your initial comment expressing support for a 1SS) that has lead you to “revise your stand and actions”?

  398. iffen says:
    @helena

    My argument is only that these things should not be taboo to talk about

    No argument from me.

    You and I can pretty much say what we want right here.

    When some people complain about not being able to speak freely, what they really mean is: I want to be in charge, I want to run the MSM propaganda. They want the MSM to publish holocaust denial pieces everyday.

    The main point of contention is that they say the holocaust is a fraud and blah, blah, blah and people like me say “nonsense” and then they repeat the whole babble again.

  399. joe webb says:

    “London now looks like Karachi, Paris like Ouagadougou, Rome like Târgu-Mures. This is absolutely disgusting, revolting and suicidal. To say so has absolutely nothing to do with racism and only a person totally devoid from any real cultural roots can misinterpret the horror of those who see their cities and cultural roots being smashed by waves of non-integratable immigrants as a form of racism. You don’t believe me?”

    The sacker refuses biology , race, and genetics as the iron rule of behavior.

    He is a strange character… everything he complains about is race, but he dare not call the thing by their proper name…race genetics.

    He also neglects to recognize that what accounts for a few semi-ok muzzies or arabs or africans is simply the right tail of the bell curve which can produce some normality, as in white normal behavior.

    So all of us racialists are just ‘devoid of cultural roots’. The Great God Culture, cited as the Mystery of Mysteries…and doubtless backed up by Religion…Russian Orthodox. We are all God’s chillun.

    Gawd! come clean Sacker, and confess your religion and MLK loving zippiness. God or Darwin…that is the fundamental, and if God wound this all up like a watch, so be it. But it is still race genetics. Like the Church says, physics is physics, science is science. The West pulled itself up with science and rationality. Religion is sometimes rational, but when it comes to the human genome,it is a very poor student.

    Joe Webb

  400. joe webb says:

    Culture dept. again. The Great GOD ….Culture. a couple weeks ago jewyorktimes, as part of the anglo-zionist plot, featured a story on child-rearing which substantially advised parents to quite fretting over their kids because the kids are going to turn out per their genetic blueprint. case closed.

    This is more demonstration of the fake God, Culture. Culture is dead. And genetics rules the world. This follows also from the Minnesota Twin Studies as well. Those identical raised in separate families turn out as identical as the identicals not separated at birth.

    Culture counts for Nothing in the clutch of an individual as he-she matures. Not exactly nothing inasmuch as all kinds of particularly childish ideas can be put into the heads of children, especially the love one-another idea.

    Young kids do love one-another up to a point, but they grow out of it. I watched a couple of about 7 year old boys playing what I now recall from my childhood as “king of the mountain.” The object is for one kid to throw off other kids from the top of the hill or central spot. This was and is best played on a low hill or mound. Boy behavior. I was always crowned king thru size and spirit.

    This is natural aggression just as puppies and kittens, etc. “play” at fighting. Tussles are for dominance. Girls don’t play queen of the mountain, they gossip-back-stab to establish dominance.

    Of course, it is not all dominance. It is also affiliation to build the group. We are social and building friends and alliances is part of our nature…both for affiliative needs, and aggression.

    Differering groups and races do the same thing. You see it in schools as kindergartners hold hands with members of other races. By about the 5th grade this is over. By high school, there is consistent self-segregation.

    I saw this demonstrated dramatically in Oslo a few years ago as I observed busloads of school kids delivered to the Viking park for, among other things, Pee Cee instruction. The kids self-segregated more and more as the grade level progressed.

    I recall one event of about 6th grade girls who consistently refused the attempts of a pretty ugly African chubby girl to join in their social circle. It was painful to watch…and the teachers would watch and do nothing. What could they do but finger their liberal beads and pray.

    Nothing can be done. And that is the sum total of it all, except for physical details like African IQ at 67 average. etc.

    I chatted up a beautiful and charming Norwegian girl of about 12 with her dog while at a campground. Voluble, trusting, eager to chat about her dog…perfection in the flesh. Up walked an African boy of about 11 or so. He said nothing. She said that he was her brother and that he could not read or write. That he was sick with something. Of course, I said nothing.

    Couple more years and she stands a good chance of being raped. The rape of Europe, the worthless blood spread around.

    This is what all the race-equality denial , intransigence, and brutality with regard to the biological facts of life leads to. This beautiful white girl of perfect innocence…violated by her parents’ insanity and then the African juices.

    The Sacker is so full of crap…he is a religious nut, a MLK True Believer, and I guess a Russian nationalist which is fine with me, but also a kind of nitwit who asks us to play nazis and communists with him. Cops and Robbers department. Ukraine is nazi, end of story, except for anglo-zio fiddling.

    Joe Webb

  401. helena says:
    @Sam Shama

    “Of which vintage do you believe, is this a fact ? ”

    Good question. Did you see my comment to you a while ago in which I said that I think perhaps Europeans have been a bit mean in not recognising Jewish contributions to Western Development? Rotterdam, for instance, (or was it Amsterdam?) in the 15th (?) century – was this not the first commercial centre of European civilisation? And would that have happened without Jewish contributions? But there seems to be a reluctance on both sides to tease out the detail of how Judeo-Christian civilisation developed.

    “with the middle-eastern-jewish cultures, and therefore frequently detect how strongly Europe influences the latter.”

    Excellent, that’s what I’m talking about. It is possible to detect or sometimes sense the influence of each on the other. But it’s never analysed and I think it’s interesting. I’m watching two Nordic Noirs at the moment and I would put money on it that one is more north European and the other more Jewish, in style – the production teams, the ideas, the writers? I could be wrong; I wouldn’t mind being wrong. I’d just be interested to discuss my perceptions with people who don’t polarise the debate into pro and anti, thereby ending any discussion.

    You see, for all the far whiteists bang on about whiteness, they can’t define it in ethnic terms. They don’t really understand their own culture(s) and ethnicity(s). In a sense, I am an uber-ethnicist. There seems to me to be something that has come from a North Sea peoples that has mixed with something that has come from a Med Sea peoples. And Europe is a big mixture of two quite different genetic developments. I tend to Frost’s view of the underlying importance of millenia spent in different environments with different food procurement strategies. One random example, nordic women are tall with long bodies and they don’t tend to go in for that much ‘accessorising’. Italian women are, I think, not just smaller but also relatively smaller than their men and seem to enjoy accessorising a great deal. I think it’s a real biological difference in sexual dimorphism. Age of menarche for instance is different in different ethnic groups. Well, age of menarche seems like a pretty valid measurement to discuss and also to discuss how that might alter cultural development. Sorry, that probably went way off what you were asking or interested in hearing.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  402. helena says:
    @iffen

    “They are 1 SD more intelligent. ”

    It seems like a rather odd piece of stats to compare a small group that is thought to originate in an Italian-Jewish marriage system that then became an endogamous group, with the whole European population. It’s not invalid to do such if one is using the European population as a base line. But one would expect such research to include other European subgroups.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @joe webb
  403. iffen says:
    @helena

    I must be more than 1 SD below the line because I can’t quite grasp your position.

    My thinking:

    Helena says that the Jews what done it. (Because they are Jews)

    Iffen says that they did it, not because they are Jews, but because they are smarter than the average bear. (Somewhat circular, they are smart because they are Jews.)

    • Replies: @helena
  404. Rurik says:

    Iffen says that they did it, not because they are Jews, but because they are smarter than the average bear

    except…

    we always hear that, how smart the Jews are. But I just don’t see it. Now if you’re trying to make the case as to how fucking dumb everyone else is, well then, you’ll get no argument from me!

    But just consider, the worst crime ever committed on American soil, and the people of the US are naturally going to be interested in who did it and, who knew about it. And then you have those really smart Mossad spies that were held in FBI custody for months after setting up cameras and were seen dancing and high-fiving and cheering and celebrating after the first plane hit the WTC. Enough people called the police because of some ‘Middle Eastern types seen celebrating’ the disaster and with cameras set up.

    Ok, not too smart. But then this is the thing iffen, these geniuses then decide that the smart thing to do is to go on Israeli television and explain that there were there to “document the event”!

    Now it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if they were there to document the event, then they must have known it was about to happen, eh? And if the Mossad knew, then so too did the entire Israeli government at the highest levels, including the ‘Bibi-sitter’ himself.

    So that seems to me just about as fucking stupid as a person can get. Now we all know that Israel at the highest levels knew 911 was going to happened but didn’t warn the Americans, who have been Israeli’s most generous ally on the planet.

    How smart is that?

    • Replies: @iffen
  405. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    So you are going on the record that in your opinion, the Jews are not smart enough to conduct false flag operations without being caught?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  406. Rurik says:
    @iffen

    the Jews are not smart enough to conduct false flag operations without being caught?

    the Lavon Affair

    USS Liberty

    911

    I’m sure they got away with plenty of little ones, but those don’t require too much in the way of brains. Come to think of it, neither does sinking an intelligence ship right off your shore. You just shoot a few torpedoes and boom. But perhaps there’s a troublesome combination of incompetence and stupidity involved.

    so no, it seems Jews are not smart enough, by a long shot

    what you have going for you tho, is the fact that the goyim are so monumentally stupid that even when the Jews are caught red handed, the goyim are still too stupid to comprehend it. That’s your blessing. Not any smarts, but the bovine catatonic stupidity of their victims.

  407. joe webb says:
    @L.K

    Jared Taylor is not philo-semitic. He is a strategist. I know his position.

    As for…”Yet, according to some of the bizarre nordicist claptrap pieces i saw published over there, greeks and southern italians are perhaps not european enough, even though modern genetics show that both have very little non european admixture and are basically withing the euro avg for non -euro admixture.”

    Call it what you want, but Richard Lynn gives Greece a national IQ of 92 (occupied by Turks for 400 years and Turkey’s national IQ is 90) and southern Italy is 95 IQ per Lynn. Interbreeding with Arabs and Turks.

    The scofflaw types who refuse to pay their taxes, drive crazily, etc. –that is not real white blood.

    I have never seen nordicist stuff on Am Ren. However, the fact is that Nordics built this country, and have built the strongest countries in Europe. Our achilles’ heel of course, is our high altruism quotient…wherefrom a good part of our current suicidal drift toward embracing the Other.

    The best whites are nordic, but only by two or three hair widths.

    Joe Webb

  408. joe webb says:
    @helena

    Jews are not a standard deviation above whites, they have an average IQ of 110, and most of that is verbal. Plus their pride and chutzpah and networking….and that they are the mascot for crazy protestants and lots of crazy catholics as well.

    Joe Webb

  409. @Rurik

    Go to Israel and you will meet lots of stupid Jews. There are plenty of stupid Jews in the U.S. also. Jews may be a little smarter on average, but 1 sd isn’t the usual claim. Whatever the truth is, Germany, white America, Britain, etc. produce enough intelligent people by sheer numbers to make up for a few smart traitors.

    And technology generally flows from other nations to Israel, not the reverse. They need us. We don’t need them.

    And how smart is it to make war on your hosts and benefactors? Think about how stupid it is for Jews use the power that they have been allowed to amass in the West to make war on their fellow citizens, when they could just live fat, happy and peaceful. Even the smart and successful ones are often flawed to the point of stupidity.

    The situation with Jews being a corrosive and hostile elite could turn ugly, and Jews would only have themselves to blame. If it does turn ugly, and Jews lose, which they eventually will, nobody is going to feel guilty or debate what actually happened this time.

    • Replies: @joe webb
    , @Rurik
  410. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    the goyim are still too stupid to comprehend it

    Ouch!

    • Replies: @Rurik
  411. Sam Shama says:
    @helena

    I not concerned that your response was somewhat dispersed. I did go back and read your previous post to me. I think your observations are interesting to say the least, and I do agree that what is frequently overlooked is the contribution of Nordic culture and science on the world at large. Jews did bring their own contributions, but the truth is, they got much more than they contributed to European civilisation. As an example, I think it is fair to conclude that a great Jewish contribution is the introduction of a ňew framework, [perhaps somewhat abstruse ] of argumentation to existing English common law.

    Your comments on the Nordic female physique, and the relative absence of accessorizing seems correct, at least on straightforward observation. I feel that this trait is actually related to the ability for precision, while discarding distractions. You will observe these very same qualities among Israeli scientists, professors in STEM, and technologists, many of whom are Ashkenazi.

    • Replies: @helena
  412. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    IQ levels have little to do with the examples cited here. The word “silly” comes to mind.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  413. joe webb says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Lynn gives Israel a 95 average. This includes lot of Arab Jews and Palestinians. Still, as I recall the Ashkenazis are a few points below our jews.

    JW

  414. helena says:
    @Sam Shama

    ” I think it is fair to conclude that a great Jewish contribution is the introduction of a ňew framework, [perhaps somewhat abstruse ] of argumentation to existing English common law. ”

    Interesting. Does it have a name? Can it be summarised?

    “I feel that this trait is actually related to the ability for precision, while discarding distractions. You will observe these very same qualities among Israeli scientists, professors in STEM, and technologists, many of whom are Ashkenazi.”

    Agreed. Somehow Nordics have the ability to be technical without becoming nerdy. Or rather, they seem to combine technical precision with high social awareness.

  415. helena says:
    @iffen

    I think events have taken place for a variety of reasons.

    The British and Israelis were occupied around the same time. The Brits gave up resistence after a few rapes, the Israelis went all out and got destroyed.

    Israelis migrating to Europe were not welcome, forced into certain occupations, some seem to have married Italian women and set up their own group.

    The royal families of Europe went bankrupt and relied on people who understood money.

    Todays banking system involves some very clever manoevres, which could be regulated but aren’t.

    Ashkenazis appear to be an intellectual bunch.

    Giving jobs to your mates is practiced by many groups – old boy networks, family networks, ethnic networks.

    All non-white ethnic groups feel more comfortable in a minority white environment.

    There has been a historic dislike, distrust of Jewish people by Europeans.

    A Jewish man wrote a book about the 20th Century being the Jewish century.

    Some Jewish public figures are on record as saying migration into Europe is good.

    Jewish newspapers give an indication that Jewish people actively support some policies in their own and other countries.

    Some Jewish people montior what people say about them (eg CIF Watch)

    Some Jewish websites list all the famous Jewish people in history and today.

    Nobody seriously questions the power of Jewish people in Hollywood do they?

    **********

    re. 1SD – why not compare one subgroup, of Ashkenazi Europeans, with another subgroup – eg Scandinavian Europeans or Scandinavian Upper Middle Class – I bet they were fairly endogamous too.

    • Replies: @iffen
  416. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Lavon affair was ‘silly’?

    attempt to sink USS Liberty was ‘silly’?

    tell that to the survivors

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  417. iffen says:
    @helena

    I’ve been thinking about some of your comments.

    I don’t think we need an ethnogenesis of Northern Europeans.

    What we need is a restoration of Western Civilization.

    Not a revolution, not a reformation, a Restoration.

    • Replies: @helena
  418. @Rurik

    @Rurik,

    I don’t think many non-Jews are so stupid that they don’t know something isn’t kosher with Jews as a group, or with Jewish power. Jews are discussed all over the internet, and much of the discussion isn’t flattering. Just because the MSM doesn’t touch Jewish influence doesn’t mean that many people are too stupid to understand the situation.

    You really have to go out of your way to read about the Lavon Affair, sloppy Mossad operations, USS Liberty attack, King David bombing, Dancing Israelis etc., but I blame ignorance of those events on a media that is engaging in cover-up, and which also happens to be largely Jewish controlled.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  419. Rurik says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    And how smart is it to make war on your hosts and benefactors? Think about how stupid it is for Jews use the power that they have been allowed to amass in the West to make war on their fellow citizens, when they could just live fat, happy and peaceful. Even the smart and successful ones are often flawed to the point of stupidity

    The Scorpion and the Frog

    an eternal story that keeps repeating itself over and over and over …

  420. Rurik says:
    @iffen

    the goyim are still too stupid to comprehend it

    Ouch!

    there are a lot of people who would make the argument that it isn’t that the goyim are stupid, per se, but rather that they aren’t corrupt… that they aren’t conniving, treacherous scheming back-stabbers.

    And being relatively honest, they simply can’t comprehend what amounts to the Jewish ‘big lie’, as Hitler described it. They can’t comprehend someone sticking a knife in their back after they’ve done so much to help them.

    That’s what the stickler is over Israel. After America has sent so many billion$, and lost so many young, American lives dying for her, how could she return the favor with a dagger in our back?

    • Replies: @iffen
  421. Rurik says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    but I blame ignorance of those events on a media that is engaging in cover-up

    fair enough

    but there’s also a cowardice it seems to me

    if you engage someone in a conversation about any of this, will they listen with curiosity, with perhaps a bemused half-interest even in what you’re saying, whether they believe it or not? Or will they become indignant, and basically dismiss you with a ‘get thee behind me Satan’ refusal to even entertain your position- even out of curiosity?

    Most of them are too afraid of their own shadows to question authority. They are, for lack of a better word; too bovine. At least that has been my impression.

    If you were to go to a Christian or Republican event, and find yourself with the microphone in your hand, and then said something like ‘two buildings were hit by planes on 911, but three collapsed’, and then looked to the crowd for a reaction, what you’d see would be anger. Rage even. They’d howl you off the stage. There might be one in a hundred that’d be curious as to your actual words, and they’d be the ones who wouldn’t describe themselves as hard-core ‘Christians’ or ‘Republicans’. And it’s no different from the left. If you were at a Bernie rally or some “Progressive, Liberal event, and the same thing happened, you’d be met with rolled eyes, intolerance and snark. Perhaps that’d be the main difference, conservatives don’t do snark.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    , @geokat62
  422. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    that they aren’t conniving, treacherous scheming back-stabbers.

    I am pretty sure that the ability to deceive, the ability to detect deception and the ability to double-cross when advantageous is integral to what it means to be human.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  423. @Rurik

    Cowardice is definitely an issue, but that fear implies knowledge of what is going on.

    I talk to people about the situation with Israel and Jews, and the private reactions aren’t always what most seem to think they would be. It’s not hard to get even strangers ranting once they trust you. Many people are afraid to speak their minds, but the dam will eventually break.

  424. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    If you were to go to a Christian or Republican event, and find yourself with the microphone in your hand, and then said something like ‘two buildings were hit by planes on 911, but three collapsed’, and then looked to the crowd for a reaction, what you’d see would be anger.

    Rurik, if I were the one who found myself with the microphone in my hand, I wouldn’t squander that opportunity to talk about something for which there is insufficient proof to make a convincing case. I would, instead, focus on something for which there is ample evidence: that the so-called GWOT (aka War on Islam) was launched to protect the citizens of Israel, not the American people:

    Israel’s enthusiasm for war eventually led some of its allies in America to tell Israeli officials to damp down their hawkish rhetoric, lest the war look like it was being fought for Israel. In the fall of 2002, for example, a group of American political consultants known as the Israel Project circulated a six-page memorandum to key Israelis and pro-Israel leaders in the United States. The memo was titled “Talking about Iraq” and was intended as a guide for public statements about the war. “If your goal is regime change, you must be much more careful with your language because of the potential backlash. You do not want Americans to believe that the war on Iraq is being waged to protect Israel rather than to protect America.”

    Mearsheimer and Walt, The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy

    • Replies: @Rurik
  425. helena says:
    @iffen

    Which bits would you restore?

    Where is the west, these days? Do you think Australia is still ‘western’ or has it shifted into a Pacific geo-political region?

  426. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    No, claiming that these incidents are somehow measures of IQ, is badly flawed. I have taken a few of these psychometric tests……

    • Replies: @Rurik
  427. Rurik says:
    @iffen

    I am pretty sure that the ability to deceive, the ability to detect deception and the ability to double-cross when advantageous is integral to what it means to be human.

    do you suppose these traits are equally divided between a Brooklyn, NY Jew and a Presbyterian WASP school teacher in Oklahoma?

    who is more likely to be a ‘conniving, treacherous scheming back-stabber’, a Bolivian (politician, merchant, government agent) or an Israeli one?

    to double-cross when advantageous is integral to what it means to be human.

    I simply don’t agree. Social interaction requires trust to work. The problem is that one group of people has figured out how to use another group of people’s honesty and decency as a weapon against them. By being fundamentally ‘conniving, treacherous and scheming’ while the others are simply acting in good faith.

  428. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    squander that opportunity to talk about something for which there is insufficient proof to make a convincing case

    But Geo, in your case there is virtually no preponderance of evidence sufficient to convince those who ‘will not see’.

    For a normal person with a rational mind and a willingness to hear and see what’s in front of their faces, the proof that they lied about 911 is overwhelming. You can say it was a coincidence that the media reported on building seven falling before it did, but that requires a sort of schizoid rearranging of logic inside the human mind to the point of pathological rationalization.

    Just as if CNN had reported on the first plane hitting the WTC 20 minutes before it did, and then people like me would want to know how they knew, and people like you would call it a meaningless coincidence, and stop being so ‘conspiracy theory’.

    So I don’t think it’s really about evidence for some people (like you ; ).

    And I consider the events of 911 as the smoking gun being held by the most evil, scum-fucks the world has perhaps ever known. (and that is saying a LOT!!) And so as they’re standing there with the smoking gun in their blood stained hand, it would require that the rest of us be so monumentally bovine, willfully blind, daft beyond comprehension or so unimaginably craven in our infinite moral cowardice that we allow the murderers to not just walk off free men, but to also retain all the levers of power in their blood-stained hands.

    This, I’m not comfortable doing.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  429. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    claiming that these incidents are somehow measures of IQ, is badly flawed.

    I was asked this question by another Sam

    the Jews are not smart enough to conduct false flag operations without being caught?

    the Lavon Affair

    USS Liberty

    911

    And I gave examples of Jewish attempts at false flag attacks that were failures or for which their DNA was left all over the murder weapons. In these cases, they can’t claim the ‘glove don’t fit’.

    The Mossad agents who were filming and celebrating the attack on 911 went on television to proclaim that they were there to “document the event”. Which means for anyone with an IO above room temperature that they (and the Israeli government) knew the attack was imminent but did not warn the Americans who were about to be horrifically slaughtered. This going on television seems to me, not too smart.

    Or just consider Lucky Larry, and him being filmed for television talking about their decision to “pull” building seven down. Here he is at the center of the most heinous crime ever known on American soil, and he’s talking about how they decided to “pull” (the trigger on the controlled demolition) right on film, for all the world to see.

    Not too smart Sam.

    I have taken a few of these psychometric tests……

    perhaps so Sam, and I’m sure you did well. But some of the dumbest people I know are Mensa members. You can have smarts in one area, and be dumb as a post in other areas. There are all kinds of smarts, as I’m sure you’d agree. If Bernie Madoff had never been caught, how many people would regale him for his ‘smarts’ long after he was dead, (the legacy of destroyed lives in his wake notwithstanding).

    they say Bibi is smart, but look how he came to the US capital and made a spectacle of showing to the entire world, (and the few Americans not of the taxonomy‎ Bovinus Americanus) that Israel can bully American foreign policy even against the express wishes of its president and his party. Out in the open, for all the world to watch, aghast and gobsmacked at the sheer arrogance and ingratitude and yes, stupidity.

    How smart was that Sam? How statesmanlike and intelligent was it to take a massive diplomatic shit in your only real benefactor’s face? And do so in front of the entire world.

    I always hear about Jewish smarts, but sometimes I’m at a loss to actually see it.

    Even here, there’s you and the wizard and Greasy and a few others (I don’t consider Ron Unz in a category of Jews per se who openly espouse Jewishness) and your contributions are worthy and I certainly read yours and Greasy’s comments, but for sheer intellectual tour de force, I’m not stupefied. (of course that could be because I’m not smart enough to appreciate the nuanced pearls tossed before swine here, I admit that readily enough, so maybe that’s what’s going on ; )

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  430. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    You are engaging [as usual] in conflation and babble; in this case, the actual definition of a psychometric test with various other qualities you see lacking in certain individuals or groups.

    It is also clear that you consider yourself head and shoulders above the rest of your own ethnic group, the goyim, calling them “bovine” as you do, among other things. You are also the poster child for all that is wrong with debates on anonymous websites, where the sheer volume of words declare victory over substance. Cases in point [and not to put too fine a point on either]: I saw no response from you, Sir Righteous, when I asked you, who amongst leaders, you consider as having met or exceeded your high standards? Or the second [and more arduous matter] where you repeatedly failed to offer an internally consistent alternative to the modern monetary system [write about it, rant-free, and I shall take it apart; promise]

    A small aside:
    [Try not to use words that you've learned only of late, without complete familiarity with the idiomatic context: it makes for a cringe inducing read]

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Rurik
  431. Sam Shama says:
    @Sam Shama

    Also, where are you constantly hearing about Jewish smarts over others, can you please point them out to me?

    I will tell you something else for the record; I have for my own benefit, come to the conclusion that rather than write voluminously on a website, my time is better spent going to various congregations and using the powers of persuasion to steer money far to the port of AIPAC.

    I have also come to realise [after almost a year] that most ranters on this site are using it as a therapeutic device. The truly clever ones, write short, incisive posts.

  432. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    wow Sam, so many insults in such a diminutive em, post

    they are bovine, in the extreme. (not, I should point 0ut due to a lack of intelligence, but rather as a consequence of a general moral cowardice)

    (you see I reserve the same right to heap scorn upon my own as you do yours)

    now as to my egregious dereliction in responding to your queries in a prompt manner; well, Sam sometimes I just get distracted. I’m not always as enthralled by your posits as you are. But, nevertheless, I’ll see what I can offer you.

    who amongst leaders, you consider as having met or exceeded your high standards?

    I sort of remember this one. Not too certain as to the context, but if what you’re asking is who from history has been a worthy leader, well they are legion. There were the Greeks and Romans. The Alexanders and Ciceros, then there was the Constantine and many great men from history. Looking a little more on the contemporary scales, and considering this is not my area of expertise, nevertheless I’d consider the founding fathers of these United States of America as some of the greatest leaders and statesmen that the world has ever known. Men like Franklin and Jefferson and one of my personal favorites Thomas Paine. Great, great men, if ever there were any.

    From there I admire Andrew Jackson and a few others, but it’s basically gone down hill from our noble and heroic beginnings as a country. Perhaps the last honest man in the White House was JFK, warts and all.

    Other greats include Russia’s Putin today. An extraordinary man and perhaps the world’s only statesman today.

    There are many unsung greats, like the men and/or women who managed to keep Switzerland neutral during that atrocity in the 30s and 40s. Lots and lots of greats out there, but as I’ve said, not my area of expertise.

    You chide me for long posts but then you make these complicated queries Sam. Which is it?

    Or the second [and more arduous matter] where you repeatedly failed to offer an internally consistent alternative to the modern monetary system [write about it, rant-free, and I shall take it apart; promise]

    now you want me to write a treatise on monetary policy and make it short?

    OK, how’s this. No privately owned central bank. Money is printed by the Treasury and handed out as necessary. No interest or greedy (Jewish ; ) hands in-between the printing press and the recipient of the money. OK? Go ahead and take that apart.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  433. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Thank you for the short proposal.

    1. It is the treasury that issues banknotes and private and public markets extend and create credit. So nothing new here, Rurik. The central bank does not “print”, [despite your protestations]. it attempts to stabilise inflation and employment by participating in markets for securities for that purpose.

    2. “Hands out money as necessary”. As in “to each according to his need, from each according to his ability “? Sounds like strict central planning and not the markets. So Pyongyang for you then, since the Soviets are in hibernation?

    3. No interest, zero interest or even negative real interest is entirely possible. Haven’t you noticed that in Japan, Germany or Switzerland, you actually have to pay for your savings? So you see, funnily enough, markets can obtain your wish for non-positive interest as a special case of the general modern model.

    4. “Greedy Jewish hands” out of it. Well the “bovine” really don’t know what they need. So we help out ;)

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @iffen
    , @Rurik
  434. Sam Shama says:
    @Sam Shama

    In point 1. Read “issues”=prints

  435. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    But Geo, in your case there is virtually no preponderance of evidence sufficient to convince those who ‘will not see’.

    No, Rurik. All I need is a little “sound” evidence, sufficient to convince those who can hear.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  436. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama

    Well the “bovine” really don’t know what they need.

    Do too, we need mo mooney, moooney.

  437. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Have you ever visit Targu-Mures? Of course it doesn`t look like Rome,it`s just a small town in Romania but it looks nice! About your saying that Eastern Europe is not part of Europe I think that geographically and culturally you are not right.I understand that your judgment is based on what your soul love most,but denying the role of these countries to Europe`s history is unfair.About the gypsies from Romania you are right,they are a plaque in any country they go,impossible to integrate,nothing to be done,but the Romanian people are not gypsies!The real problem in the Western Europe are the leftist governments who allowed islamisation and so on.Your saying that “real islam will help to clean house”is just damn priceless! I liked your “Suicide by Reality Denial” article!

  438. Njguy says:

    I have visited Europe twice once to Copenhagen and once to Rome, both countries were amazing in different ways. I consider Ancient Rome the most interesting historical topic and seeing all the ruins which are nearly all in walking distance was amazing.

    When it comes to Saker article I don’t agree with some of it..East Europeans aren’t part of Europe? what could be the purpose of this attitude in the type of dire situation the West is in the present moment, along with the idea that large amounts of non-europeans can’t be deported. Even with these disagreements people such as the author are way ahead of most people in recognizing the immigration/race problem at least among politicians especially so called “conservatives”. Anyways i hope to visit Europe as many times as possible in the near future as god knows what it will look like in a generation of two.

  439. I get what Saker is saying about Eastern Europe not being part of Europe. Culturally, the East is not a part of the West. Russia is more removed than Estonia or Poland,which are Central Europe, but still not western, especially after Soviet domination. Still I consider the old East Bloc to be European instead of Asian, Middle Eastern or African.

    I also remember Scandinavian and British friends talk of vacationing over or down in Europe.

  440. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    OK, here we go!

    1. It is the treasury that issues banknotes and private and public markets extend and create credit. So nothing new here, Rurik. The central bank does not “print”, [despite your protestations]. it attempts to stabilise inflation and employment by participating in markets for securities for that purpose.

    Where does the Treasury get the ‘banknotes’ to lend in the first place Sam? Don’t they have to borrow them (at interest) from the privately owned Fed (the Jews) before they can issue them?

    And how well have these geniuses been at ‘stabilizing inflation’ Sam. Been to the grocery store lately?

    2. “Hands out money as necessary”. As in “to each according to his need, from each according to his ability “? Sounds like strict central planning and not the markets. So Pyongyang for you then, since the Soviets are in hibernation?

    No Sam, but if the government needs to ‘print’ money to cover its expenses, it prints it itself, rather than borrowing it (at interest) from the world’s greediest men who print it out of thin air and then “loan it” to the government. It’s a system of debt slavery to the uber-corrupt banks and banksters on Wall Street and the Fed. It’s an iniquitous and sinister system of fraud and corruption on a biblical scale. And it must be ended or the world is going to go reeling into places I suspect none of us want to find out where it will end. You can gloat all you want to about how “the Jews” were so clever in tricking the stupid goyim into becoming their debt slaves, but this kind of thing has a way of biting back. There is a sort of universal equilibrium in the universe, and the pendulum always manages to swing.

    3. No interest, zero interest or even negative real interest is entirely possible. Haven’t you noticed that in Japan, Germany or Switzerland, you actually have to pay for your savings? So you see, funnily enough, markets can obtain your wish for non-positive interest as a special case of the general modern model.

    “Markets”, as you dishonestly refer to them- are free. Nothing about the Western world’s monetary system is free anymore Sam. The markets are all controlled from the top down by the Fed. And all the shenanigans going on with interest rates and financial controls and all the markets are all being furiously manipulated by the same geniuses that brought us the 2008 crash. They’re scrambling to cook the books as fast as they can loot the treasuries. It’s a feeding frenzy, and their appetites are infinite, so one day, they’re going to start feeding on each other, but not until they’ve managed to loot the last blade of grass from the Main Streets of the world. That in fact, is what all the hysteria over the Carbon Tax is all about. They see that their looting is not from a bottomless abyss as they’d hoped, because they’re all underestimating each other’s greed, and so now they desperately need a scheme to loot every corner of the planet to sate their infinite greed. But even if they got the carbon tax, and were still able to control all the world currency markets and still print Federal Reserve Notes until the bearing in the printing presses burned up, it still wouldn’t’ be enough to feed these human ticks. So that’s were we’re at. ; )

    4. “Greedy Jewish hands” out of it. Well the “bovine” really don’t know what they need. So we help out ;)

    I suppose some gloating is in order. The boyz at the Fed have really had some kind of run, and the bovine cud chewers seem as oblivious as ever. Yet, this is changing. Slowly, excruciatingly slow like an ice age succumbing to the sun’s rays, but change it will. The BRICs are tired of being chumps. There’s the Iranian Oil Bourse. There’s calls from the Republican front runner for president to audit the Fed. So gloat while you can I guess.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  441. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    No, Rurik. All I need is a little “sound” evidence, sufficient to convince those who can hear.

    Geo, I suspect you’re the only person in the world who feel he needs to hear the sounds of the thermite cutting through steel beams to accept that the OBVIOUS controlled demolition of building seven was a controlled demolition. If you can’t tell by watching the video, and need to hear the sounds of the thermite’s chemical reactions, then I can’t help but suspect that if there were an audio recording that was found somewhere from inside the building, that you’d simply raise the bar and demand some other obscure criteria.

    I have no idea if this video is authentic

    and I hesitate to even post it, because even it it’s fake, it’s irrelevant because of the mountains of evidence that proves that they’re lying about everything that happened on that day. And I don’t need this video to show me that building seven was an OBVIOUS controlled demolition. But I post it here as just one more thing for you to ignore in your curious and stubborn insistence that we all pretend that building seven could have fallen the way it did due to office fires and assorted vibrations. And that the media pre-reporting on this impossibility was just a coincidence.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @OilcanFloyd
  442. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    Geo, I suspect you’re the only person in the world who feel he needs to hear the sounds of the thermite cutting through steel beams to accept that the OBVIOUS controlled demolition of building seven was a controlled demolition.

    I noticed in another thread you made the following comment to PM:

    For the record PM, no one in the truther movement is pretending to know how it all happened.

    It seems to me that PM is another Unz commenter who requires a preponderance of evidence before accepting a hypothesis as being OBVIOUS. Why don’t you run your CD theory by him? I’m curious to see if he concurs with your assessment that it’s OBVIOUS.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  443. @Rurik

    It’s obvious that the system is corrupt and flawed, and is largely designed to cover its own flaws and corruption. Yes, the politicians and bureaucrats who should be minding store aren’t doing their jobs, but that’s largely because they are working together with the banksters. I guess politicians and bureaucrats are easier to buy than wealthy bankers, which is probably why Trump scares the establishment so much, even though he is hardly a revolutionary.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  444. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    I noticed in another thread you made the following comment to PM:

    For the record PM, no one in the truther movement is pretending to know how it all happened.

    I stick by this 100%. We don’t know if they used thermite (well, actually I guess there is evidence of thermite that’s been found in the dust), but still, there are thousands of unanswered questions. Did they use other, military types of weapons to bring the towers down? Who actually wired the buildings and how did they do it so clandestinely? How were they able to make steel beams vaporize into air? Many, many questions.

    But what’s OBVIOUS is that building seven was deliberately imploded. A modern, steel frame building doesn’t just >poof< into neat little cut beams into its basement at the drop of a hat. That much is indeed obvious, and I'd not be surprised to hear anyone who's seen the video of that building collapsing the way it did agree. 100%

    • Replies: @geokat62
  445. Rurik says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Trump scares the establishment so much

    I hope so Oilcan

    I’m disheartened to hear that Rove may be warming to Trump

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/karl-rove-donald-trump-221926

    the more Rove is red faced and clench fisted over Trump, the better Trump looks

    but then again I suspect Rove is a pure opportunist, and not an ideologue like William Kristol

    If little Billy Kristol ever endorses Trump, then it’s ‘abandon all hope ye Trump dupes’

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  446. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Not even 1st rate fiction.

    I have tried, but realise now, that what I am dealing with is either a deliberate ranting exercise, or worse, a case of jackals baying at the big wheel of Swiss cheese in the night sky, every Lunar cycle. It’s fKing boring mate!

    P.S. last attempt to help you understand that all markets need is good regulation, read Joseph Stglitz.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  447. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    It’s called game theory. Same reason why a General would never reveal to the Ruriks and Sams regarding a stress on the system. There is nothing to be gained from it.

    Sometimes I smile when I picture your naiive zeal ;)

    • Replies: @Rurik
  448. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    But what’s OBVIOUS is that building seven was deliberately imploded.

    Don’t won’t to rehash this issue, but I never got a solid response to the following:

    Firefighters reported numerous indications that WTC 7 was weakening, even measuring the lean of the structure with surveying equipment. [Here is the direct testimony of the Fire Captain and Deputy Chief, who were both on the scene, regarding] visible and audible signs of structural distress:

    Fire Captain Chris Boyle: Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.

    So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

    Deputy Chief Peter Hayden: Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  449. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    It’s called game theory. Same reason why a General would never reveal to the Ruriks and Sams regarding a stress on the system. There is nothing to be gained from it.

    because the General is supposed to work for us Sam. Not for himself directly against our interests.

    The Fed is supposed to exist for the benefit of the American people, (I know that must sound laughable to you, knowing who these people really work for, but that is the absurd charade anyways)

    So yea, remember how I said that the queen of England sucks arse because she has all of this power and influence specifically so she will use it to benefit the British people of England, but then the doddering hag uses the power vested in her to destroy the British people’s way of life, and it’s because of the sacred, near absolute power she has, that her responsibility not to abuse it or use it for personal gain becomes nearly a divine sort of responsibility? Remember?

    Sort of like a Supreme Court justice who is appointed for life, and made certain never to want for anything, because it’s so critical that they don’t become corrupt, but then become corrupt they do, just like the queen of England, and just like the boyz at the Fed, who you readily admit lie to us and use the incredible power they’ve been given to protect our economy – to loot the economy for their own, personal gain. They game the system, as you call it, and destroy people’s lives willy-nilly and makes themselves and their buddies on Wall Street fantastically wealthy in the process.

    I can’t wait for your book on the Fed to come out Sam. It ought to be en eye opener for sure!

    Sometimes I smile when I picture your naiive zeal ;)

    I’m sure that when we all get done reading your book about how the Fed uses the power and trust it’s been given over our economy and our currency and our financial institutions- to destroy our economy by deliberately blowing up bubbles and then constricting the money supply at critical moments in order to do the most harm to the maximum number of people (who are trusting them to do the opposite) will make for some knee-slapping hilarity among certain quarters, but maybe not so much for others.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  450. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse

    Think about this Geo.

    “we realized this thing was going to collapse”

    It can’t be explained even today, after so many years, how this building came down the way it did (except as an [obvious] controlled demolition). It’s never happened in the history of steel frame buildings either before or since. It is in fact, a physical impossibility for steel to simply stop being steel simultaneously and fall into neat little pieced into a pile in the basement. (for immediate removal to be melted down in China before a forensic investigation could be done)

    saying they knew the building was going to collapse is beyond ludicrous unless they knew about the charges and thermite that had been planted for the purpose.

    But I am glad to see them so desperate that they’ll try even this to obscure their crime. They must be afraid, and that’s a good thing. ;)

    • Replies: @geokat62
  451. @Rurik

    @Rurik

    I don’t have much faith in Trump, but it is interesting that the establishment of both parties have dropped their masks over him

    It seems that both major parties are losing the base, but the Republicans elites have done far more to expose themselves as frauds, who despise and actively work against the people whose votes they depend on.

    Hopefully there are politically ambitious billionaires who are true nationalists and care about actual Americans waiting in the wings. We shouldn’t hold out for them, but that seems to be what really scares the wits out of our betters.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  452. Rurik says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    elites have done far more to expose themselves as frauds

    as the scumbags in Colorado tell the voters to f-off, I’m reminded of this quote

    “The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

    ― Frank Zappa

  453. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Wrong again in heaps. Do you think the management of a cinema house ought to shout panic stations in a crowded theatre?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  454. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    But I am glad to see them so desperate that they’ll try even this to obscure their crime.

    Are you suggesting that the Fire Captain and the Deputy Chief were both in on it?

  455. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Do you think the management of a cinema house ought to shout panic stations in a crowded theatre?

    if he set the fire and wanted to save the movie goers, then of course he should warn them

    Bernanke blew up the housing bubble by opening the flood gates to massive levels of credit/debt, and did the exact opposite of what the purpose of the Fed is chartered to do. Protect the dollar and the economy.

    They’re a bunch of crooks. In bed with Goldman Sachs and assorted crooks in the fecal government and especially the Treasury. The SEC is a joke. We have the foxes guarding the henhouse and you know it ;)

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  456. Rurik says:

    Are you suggesting that the Fire Captain and the Deputy Chief were both in on it?

    and the mayor and the vice president and the secretary of defense and the police chief and many, many others Geo.

    Check out how well the LA Fire Dept. cooperated in the investigation of Michael Hastings death if you think Fire Dept. officials are beyond reproach. And would never allow a cover up to protect their careers and pensions even when it involves an assassination of an American by government agents.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  457. helena says:

    Fire-fighting on two fronts, Rurik! – actual and metaphorical!

    • Replies: @Rurik
  458. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    And would never allow a cover up to protect their careers and pensions…

    Ok, Rurik. But aren’t you suffering from what you described as “speculation as fact”?

    Rather than using language suggesting that these could be one of many plausible explanations, aren’t you choosing to use language that suggests these are facts?

    Do you recall this exchange you had with PM:

    PM – Mistrusting the official explanation is one thing; elevating one’s hunches to fact without any evidence is quite another

    Rurik – I don’t know of too many that do that here at Unz PM. This is a pretty hardcore site that doesn’t suffer error or ‘speculation as fact’ very well.

    Where’s all the evidence for all these hunches of yours? I’m referring specifically to the testimony of the Fire Captain and the Deputy Chief as it relates to bldg 7, and the “speculation as fact” that they too were in on it.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  459. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    I’m referring specifically to the testimony of the Fire Captain and the Deputy Chief as it relates to bldg 7, and the “speculation as fact” that they too were in on it

    I’m going to paraphrase Geo,

    Deputy Chief:

    ‘We’ll by 2:00 we had noticed that the building was bulging out in all preposterous and sinister contradiction to the straight lines of it’s structural beams, while maintaining its glass facade intact, so we knew then that all laws of physics had been suspended on that day. The bulging was so apparent and obvious and that not even one camera got a view of it! And being firefighters, we’re all aware how fires- even raging infernos- in steel frame buildings have never in the history of firefighting, caused a building to collapse, yet we all knew beyond any doubt three hours before it actually happened that building seven was going to be the first building in the history of firefighting to plop down. This was obvious. Even so, according to Lucky Larry Silverstein, we still had firefighters in the building fighting all these raging fires that were melting the thick steel beams and causing the building to bulge so spectacularly- (so much so that I’m the first and only person who’s even ever noticed it or mentioned it, it was that bad!). So sure, according to Lucky Larry our firefighters were in that building when the Fire Dept. commander called Lucky Larry and they discussed what to do about the building and the fire fighters still in there, and it was then, because there ‘was such tragic loss of life already’ (he didn’t even smirk) that they decide on the phone- with the fire dept. commander and Lucky Larry himself – that they decided to “pull it”, meaning the remaining firefighters still in building. Nothing about the steel frame of the building bulging or wobbling or doing summersaults, no. It was because there ‘had been such terrible loss of life’, and they ‘weren’t sure they were going to be able to contain the fires’, that’s why they “pulled it” – the fire fighters. But this is in direct contradiction to this statement of the Deputy Chief, who claims they evacuated the fire fighters because by 2:00, everybody in the world knew beyond any doubt that the building was going to come crashing down. I mean how could it not?! It’s never happened ever in the history of steel frame buildings ever, so certainly that it would this time was obvious, no?

    Clue: they’re lying

    Just imagine a structure of any kind Geo. A house, a box, a car, a building – small or large. Regardless of what it’s made of… concrete, wood, metal or fiberglass or a combination of all these things. Now imagine that this structure is set on fire in a corner, and allowed to burn until some damage has occurred, perhaps even to the point where there is some of this phantom ‘bulging’ that this liar is referring to. But in our experiment, it actually does happen, now, you see the structure bulging out of a corner and perhaps there is some serious structural damage to that one corner, or even an entire side. Fuck it, three sides of the structure are burning and are bulging and creaking and appear to be ready to fail. Now, what are the chances that you’re going to expect that at some certain point, that immediately the entire structure is going to completely and simultaneously fail all together and the rest of the material holding the structure up is going to immediately vaporize into nothing?

    Answer, that just does not happen Geo. And a fire chief, of all people knows it. He’s lying Geo. He’s a rotten, fucking liar and I’d say so to his face if I could. All of those firemen who trust a sack of shit like this who lost their lives on that day will be waiting for this little lying rat on the other side, (I hope).

    Oops, back to the scenario. So OK, you’re got this structure and it’s been burning and it’s been compromised but it still has a lot of structural integrity elsewhere. Now what I’m trying to do Geo, is get you to imagine this kind of thing on a limited scale, so a layperson with little or no understanding of the properties of things like steel and concrete can understand it. So just think of like the Eiffel Tower if you want something big and steel, and imagine it being on fire (with a magical fire that melts steel) and imagine not just one, but three sides are bulging and giving way, now what are the chances that you’re going to expect that at a certain moment, all if it is going to simultaneously give way completely and the Eiffel Tower is going to fall down symmetrically directly under its footprint?

    Can you see how this is an impossibility?

    Can’t you see how the tower would fall over, rather than to plop straight down and come apart into nice little pieces for the trucks to haul off and melt down in China?

    All Fire Chiefs know that steel frame building have burnt like infernos for hours and not one has ever come down. But this lying POS says they all knew at 2:00 that building seven was going to implode. What a disgusting, lying sack of shit this guy is Geo. I hope some of the men and women who lost sons and fathers and husbands and best friends working as first responders that day find a way to exact some justice upon a *maggot like this Deputy Fire Chief.

    *(with apologies to real fly larvae maggots who’re slandered by my reference to this man as being one of them)

    an honest firefighter telling the truth

    how structures behave

    • Replies: @geokat62
  460. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    This is getting too boring.

    O/t
    I am at the moment a captive, traveling quite under protest with extended family to such great American destinations as Disneyworld. Stunned and speechless observing the level and pervasiveness of obesity in FL. People are totally oblivious re: the state of things in this country. Overfed, vaguely satisfied with life and no interst at all in government beyond making sure that the cheques arrive on time and the mobility scooters are available. This is true dystopia!!

  461. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    He’s lying Geo. He’s a rotten, fucking liar and I’d say so to his face if I could.

    Ok, Rurik. So the Fire Captain and the Deputy Chief are both in on it. But what about Lieutenant Frank Papalia (of the FDNY from 1998 to 2006), is he in on it, too? Here’s what he had to say about bldg 7 (@ 57:22 of the video):

    I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. It kind of angers me because I was there. I’ve heard people talk about it that come from Cincinnati… and California… and wherever else they come from. I was here, you weren’t. I think they have no respect for all the friends I lost, for all the people that died on that day. It’s like a slap in their face.

    http://youtu.be/oTZ3XXO7wNA

    Would you call Frank a liar, too?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    , @Rurik
  462. @geokat62

    I was here, you weren’t. I think they have no respect for all the friends I lost, for all the people that died on that day. It’s like a slap in their face.

    Paraphrase: THOSE FLYING PIGS!!! HOW DARE THOSE AWFUL “TRUTHERS” QUESTION THAT THERE WERE FLYING PIGS??? ALL THOSE FRIENDS I LOST THAT DAY, KILLED BY THOSE EVIL FLYING PIGS!!! I WAS THERE, THEY WEREN’T!!! YOU MUST BELIEVE ME!!! ONLY AN UNWORTHY, HEARTLESS PERSON WOULD DOUBT MY HYPEREMOTIONAL OUTBURST!!!

    Would you call Frank a liar, too?

    Well, Frank is obviously not telling the truth, but would I call him a liar specifically? Look, let’s say there’s a mafia hit and all the people nearby, at least some of whom must have seen it, all say: “I didn’t see nuttin’”. Would I call them liars?

    No, probably not. I would say that some of them surely did see what happened but are afraid to testify, that’s all. I wouldn’t necessarily judge all those people that badly even. They know what they’re up against.

    What Frank is up against here is something much more vicious and powerful than any local mafia. But it’s the same deal basically. He plays the fool: “I don’t know nuttin’ about no buildings gettin’ blown up…. Everybody knows it was those FLYING PIGS!!!!”

    Anybody who wasn’t born yesterday understands what’s going on here and I’m pretty sure you do too.

  463. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    Would you call Frank a liar, too?

    I watched the video of him saying that, and I can’t say if he’s lying or not. He seems a little clueless and in a daze. He might be lying, or he might just be reeling inside from a kind of shock.

    But the ones higher up are lying. Rudy Guliani is a lying, traitorous scumbag who sent those firefighters to their deaths and then stood there on their graves preening for accolades. It’s hard to imagine a more rotten and vile POS.

    But then we don’t have to try to imagine them Geo. There is precedent!

    Whenever I consider the beginnings of my cynicism, I look back to Waco. There we had a church full of people who would not submit to the fecal government’s demand to submit to their nefarious power, or else. When they would not submit in proper and prompt form, the government burned them all alive and then lied about it. The ones who lied were promoted and the victims of the murderous liars were persecuted. What more do you need to understand about the nature of these people Geo?

    It is admitted that the FBI lied about using flammable gas canisters when they drove their tanks into the compound. (only because they were caught and the canisters were found and turned in as evidence. When that happened, they admitted that they lied. If you watch a recent video of that heinous and unspeakable crime, you can see that the government had agents shooting automatic weapons into the only way out of that building once they had set it on fire, knowing human nature would mean people would try to escape the flames. But to this day, all the liars and murders have been coddled by the government and the media, while the victims have been tossed on the pyre of inconvenient deaths to be memory holed.

    So we have all the police and federal agents and fire debt officials and government goons all the way up the ladder to president Clinton himself, and they all lied and murdered those people and got away with it clean, because of the ubiquitous corruption that permeates every scintilla of our leadership and media. So that’s the way it is. They all know if they lie and cover up the crimes, their careers will flourish, whereas if they threaten to tell the truth, then there’s always Michael Hastings as an example to them all.

    So I hope that answers your question as to whether or not I consider it possible for fire dept. officials to lie. As for that guy in particular, like I said, he looks like a poor schlub who might be just too naïve to comprehend the evil that happened on that day. There are a lot of people like that.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  464. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    Rudy Guliani is a lying, traitorous scumbag who sent those firefighters to their deaths and then stood there on their graves preening for accolades. It’s hard to imagine a more rotten and vile POS.

    On that, we can definitely agree.

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