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Russian Presidential Elections: Boring, Useless and Necessary?
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As the Presidential elections in Russia are drawing near I am amazed to see how much interest this event is generating in spite of the fact that it sure seems to me that this will be an incredibly boring and, frankly, totally useless event.

But first, full disclosure: I don’t have much faith in the so-called “democratic process”. Just look at the EU and tell me: do you really believe that the people in power represent the will and interests of the people who, supposedly, elected them? There are exceptions, of course, Switzerland is probably one of the comparatively most democratic countries out there, but mostly what we see is that western democracies are run by gangs of oligarchs and bureaucrats who have almost nothing in common with the people they are supposed to represent. As for the US, for decades now every time the people voted for “A” they always got “non-A” as a result. It is almost comical.

So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power. Putting it differently, the “democratic process” is the device by which the real and hidden rulers of the world (or “worldwide behind the scenes powers“, to use the expression of Ivan Il’in), legitimize their power and prevent their overthrow. This is the same technique followed by used car dealerships when they place tens, sometimes, hundreds of US flags on their lots before a car sale: it’s just a basic trick to induce the ‘correct’, patriotic, state of mind.

This is also the reason why there are elections every 4 years in the US: the more illegitimate and despotic any putatively “democratic” regime is, the more often it will organize elections to, so to speak, “increase the dose” of patriotically-induced stupor in its people and give them the illusion that the regime is legitimate, their opinion matters and all is well.

Finally, when needed, slogans such as “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others” are used to put to sleep those who might have doubts. In terms of real people power “democracies” are probably the least truly democratic regimes imaginable simply because they are by far the most capable of hiding who really runs the country and where their real centers of power are. Do I really need to add that the worst kind of “democracy” is the capitalist one? You disagree? Then why do you think that Mayer Amschel Rothschild allegedly declared “Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!“? Nowhere is the concentration of capital easier to achieve than in a society which makes it possible for the real ruling class to hide its power behind a screen of electoral farces.

Russia’s modern “democracy” fits into this mold very nicely and the upcoming elections are a perfect example of that. But here I need to make another disclaimer: if judged superficially, just by the usual set of legalistic, external, criteria, Russia is a real democracy: there is freedom of speech in Russia, plenty of elections, you can criticize Putin or any other politician to your heart’s content, when journalists are murdered (which happens), it is never on the Kremlin’s orders (simply because the Kremlin does not need them dead). The Russian media is infinitely more diverse (and interesting!) then the dull propaganda machine called “the media” in the West. And even harsh critics of the government (like, say, Maksim Shevchenko) do get positions in various official human rights monitoring bodies, etc. In reality, Russia is far more democratic than most western countries.

So what is wrong with this rosy picture?

What is wrong is that this is all a farce, a facade, every bit as fake as western democracies are. But in a very different, uniquely Russian, way.

For one thing, there is no real opposition in Russia. Oh sure, Zhirinovsky has been in politics for years and delivering his unique mix of very sound and truthful ideas and utter, idiotic nonsense. ”Zhirik” (as he is called in Russia) is really a court jester, whose role is to amuse but also often say things which others don’t have the courage to say. By the way, regardless of crazy nonsense he regularly spews, the man is very intelligent and well educated and when he acts like a clown he is fully aware of it (you can even see his laughing eyes when he offloads some particularly offensive and outrageous comment). Zhirik and his “Liberal Democratic” (I kid you not!) party is basically the ideal “Kremlin-approved” pseudo-opposition which gets a lot of people who otherwise might feel really disgusted with Kremlin politics to vent, go vote, and then basically support Putin even if they don’t realize it. Zhirik and his LDRP are also very useful to harshly criticize, ridicule and discredit the pro-US “liberals” (in the Russian meaning of the word) whom I refer to as “Atlantic Integrationists”. Next, comes the Communists.

The Russian Communists are a pathetic bunch, really. I wish the English speaking audience could listen to how their longtime leader, Gennady Zyuganov, speaks: he even sounds like an old Soviet Politburo member. The Russian Communists have, for many years now, been a completely reactionary and fossilized party: mostly they peddle Soviet-era nostalgia, minus the Gulag, of course, and with a new and fantastically hypocritical respect for religion. If Zhirik is a least really funny, Zyuganov will bore you to tears! So for these elections, the Russian Communists did something really weird: they chose to back an outsider, Pavel Grudinin, who is as much a real communist as Barak Obama was a real democrat. I guess their stupid plan was to show something akin to a 21st-century version of “Communism with a human face”, except for this time the face looks strikingly similar to Charlie Chaplin.

ORDER IT NOW

But don’t completely dismiss the Communists quite yet. For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics. Putin gets away with this by two simple tricks: a) his superb foreign policy b) by deflecting most criticisms on Medvedev. Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.

I have often made the case that culturally Russia is not, and has never been, European in any meaningful sense of the word. This is particularly true in the typically Russian mix of, on one hand, contempt for the accumulation of wealth and individualism and, on the other, the Russian fixation on the notion of moral justice. Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers. The traditional Russian culture, which has never undergone anything resembling the western Renaissance or Reformation, has retained a social ethos which is much closer to Middle-Eastern Islam or Asian Confucianism than to the western values of the so-called “Age of Enlightenment”. And while Marxism-Leninism was clearly an ideological import, it found in Russia a much more fertile ground for its values than the “enlightened” Masonic values imposed upon the Russian society by the westernized Russian elites, often with a great deal of violence, during the 18th- 20th centuries. There is a reason why nobody followed Kerensky and his Masonic gang while the Bolsheviks did get a lot of support from the people in spite of their rabid hatred for religion and their russophobia.

Thus, a full 750 years after Saint Alexander Nevsky spoke his famous words “God is not in force, but in truth” we saw, Danila Bagrov, the hero of the famous movie “Brother 2″, say this in his now famous monologue with a prototypical US capitalist “tell me, American, wherein is strength? Is it in money? My brother also says that it is in money. And you have a lot of money, and so what? I think that real strength is in the truth – he who has the truth is the stronger one!“. What we are dealing with here is what Ivan Solonevich used to call the “national dominant” – a core component of the identity, worldview, and ethos of a nation. Seventy years of Bolshevism, followed by a decade of “democratic” capitalism did definitely manage to damage and diminish this “national dominant”, but it is still here and its political and social potential is still immense. This is why “Leftist” parties should never be completely dismissed in Russia: Russia will always be a country drawn to social, “Leftist”, collectivist values and ideas.

Back to reality now: Grudinin is as far away from Saint Alexander Nevsky or Danila Bagrov as can be and the so-called “Left” in Russia is as uninspiring and sterile as it is in the West. But if 70 years of obnoxious Bolshevik mismanagement have not managed to discredit the collectivist and social values inherent in the Russian people, neither will one really bad choice for a presidential election.

Still, the sad reality today is that the Russians don’t have a real, truly socialist, candidate to vote for. If Zirik is a right-wing jester, then Grudinin is left-wing fake.

And yet, even being the fake that he is, Grudinin is enough of an irritant (not a threat, that is overstating the case) that the Russian state media has now clearly embarked on a Grudinin-bashing campaign (which he richly deserves, but nonetheless). We should never forget here that the Communists did win the 1996 elections (which Eltsin stole with the full support of the West, the same West which also supported Eltsin using tanks in 1993 to kill thousands of people in a democratically elected parliament). That was a long time ago, but what I think is that this still shows that there still is a large potential voting base for Communists in Russia, but only if the Communists presented a credible candidate. Speaking of which, while Zyuganov himself looks like an old stuffed Politburo relic, there are much smarter young Communists in Russia, just as some younger LDPR members also look pretty sharp. But here is the crux of the problem: the Kremlin clearly has enough power to make darn sure that all those whom the Russians get as a “choice” are either court jesters or fakes. So while the democratic form is respected, the substance is entirely missing.

Next, there are what we could call “all the others” (Sobchack, Iavlinsky, Baburin, Suraikin, Titov). Just forget about them, they basically don’t exist. Some (Baburin) are better than others (Iavlinksy), but the reality is that they are all irrelevant.

And then there is Da Man, The Boss, the Ubercandidate who crushes everybody just by his presence and who will easily win yet another term: Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. Compared to Putin, all the others look like confused kindergarteners playing pretend politics in the electoral sandbox allotted to them. Now, I am a self-confessed Putin-fanboy and I am very happy that he is in power. But that does not mean that I should kid myself, or anybody else, about all the problems with the current situation. Let me list a few of these problems:

First, and this is crucial, Russia is at war. Let me repeat this: Russia is at war with the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that this war is roughly 80% informational, 15% economic and 5% kinetic does not make it less real or less dangerous, if only because these ratios can very rapidly change. Furthermore, Putin is a brilliant man placed at the top of an extremely bad system which almost cost Russia her very existence. As a result, Putin put his efforts in mostly two directions: protect Russia against the western aggression and struggle against the pro-western 5th columnists inside Russia (oligarchs, Zionists, “liberals”, russophobes, etc.) including inside the Kremlin (the Atlantic Integrationists à la Medvedev or the IMF/WTO/Washington Consensus types à la Nabiulina & Kudrin & Chubais, etc.). Of course, Putin did try to fight corruption, mismanagement, fraud, etc., but the two spheres where he hit the hardest were defense and aerospace. He also created the ONF (The All-Russia People’s Front) to try to “reach” deeper inside the Russian society and economy, and this also worked. But the fact remains that most of Putin’s energy was directed at fighting the war against the Empire and the 5th column inside Russia. Most of the country is still in dire need of reform.

Second, and to my personal great regret, Putin is a neo-liberal. A real anti-liberal would never have kept people like Kudrin (who, by the way, was fired by Medvedev, not Putin), or Nabiulina and all the rest of them. Alas, Putin failed to kick this entire gang were it belongs: in jail. He got some of them (Serdiukov, Uliukaev) but most of them are still here (notice that neither Nabuilina nor Chubais ever made it to the US sanctions list?). I am no mind reader but my best guess is that Putin sincerely believes in what we could loosely called “regulated capitalism” or “social democracy” and that the kind of ideas presented by, say, Sergei Glaziev, really frighten him as a possible return to the kind of disaster-economics the Soviet Union had in the 1980s. I think that he is wrong, but that doesn’t matter. What matters is that most Russian people clearly would want a number of things which Putin is not willing or able to deliver including a much harsher crackdown on corruption, much more vigorous social policies (social or “socialist” in the Russian sense of the word, meaning socially-oriented and not driven by capitalist ideology) and a much more equitable distribution of wealth.

By all accounts, and in diametrical opposition to what nonsense spewed by the AngloZionist propaganda, Putin is not at all a nostalgic of the Soviet era. In fact, he seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.). Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists. The fact that the Russian Communists completely fail to provide such an alternative is great for Putin’s reelection but very bad for Russia.

Third, Russia today is ruled by one man: Putin. Great guy, I totally support him! But one man ruling a country is a very bad thing not only because sooner or later this man will leave the scene and leave no credible successor, but also because a President should not be dealing with the pavement of the road in small cities in the Urals or get involved in the geographical distribution of maternity wards in Siberia. Yet this is exactly what is going on. The Russians have even an expression for that “Putin rules in a manual regime” meaning that he has to do everything by himself. This is sheer folly and this is obviously unsustainable. Oh sure, there are very sharp and good people around Putin, but none of them can match his unique combination of charm, charisma, intelligence, courage, patience, and determination: as soon as Putin leaves, for whatever reason, this entire system will come tumbling down precisely because it is not a real system but a “one man show”. And this is exactly what the Atlantic Integrationists are obviously waiting for to strike again.

So if Putin is so bad, why do I support him? Simply because at this point in time there is no alternative. And it’s not really that Putin is “bad” – but rather that he is a human being, not a miracle worker with a magic wand in his hands who can reform Russia simply by waving it and saying “abracadabra”. Especially not while Russia is at war with an Empire which threatens her very existence!

In the West, the AngloZionist are clearly backing Grudinin (see here here here here here here and even the always hyperpoliticallycorrect Wikipedia loves him!). The reasons for that are really simple: not only would the AngloZionist prefer *anybody*, including Count Dracula, over Putin, but if even if a purely nominal pseudo-Communist like Grudinin came to power the entire western “elites” could finally all loudly proclaim that: “Aha! Here is the proof; here is a wave of revanchist Communism in Russia and that is like the USSR 2.0 – welcome to the next Cold War!!“. In reality, the Russian Communist Party, chock-full of very real capitalists, (see machine translated article here) who Communist only in name, but its members still like red flags and pictures of Lenin and that ‘s good enough to scare those who already want to be scared (westerners). In the meantime, while the Russian state-media is bashing Grudinin, “somebody” is clearly actively promoting him in the Russian social media. Any guesses who that “somebody” might be?

As always, Russia’s “western geostrategic partners” are misreading Russia and wasting their breath (and money!). Here are the latest polls: Putin 71.5%, Zhirinovsky 5.5%, Grudinin 7.3% and the rest don’t matter. You don’t want to believe them? Fine. But when the difference is by a full order of magnitude your doubts won’t make much of a difference. Besides, you really don’t want the figures of being any different, trust me, because if the jester or the fake comes to power, then the crisis which will hit Russia and the rest of our planet will really be immense and very dangerous: we already have one clown in charge of a nuclear superpower, we most definitely can’t afford a second one.

The sad reality is that these elections will change nothing and they are not only boring (no real, credible, opposition) but also useless. A grand waste of time and money. And yet, they are also necessary.

ORDER IT NOW

They are necessary because in the “Empire of Illusions”, to borrow Chris Hedges’ excellent expression, everybody simply has to play by the AngloZionist rules: elections are an absolute “must” even if they are self-evidently farcical. So the Russians will get their “secular liturgy” (which is what elections really are), the right guy will stay in power, which is good, even if his staying in power has nothing to do with the formal trappings democracy. Yes, Putin does have the support of the overwhelming majority of the Russian people, even those who do not trust polls or election results agree on this, and that popular support is by far his most important power base (and the main reason why Putin-haters either stay quiet or become politically irrelevant). But the reality of that support is neither expressed by, nor conveyed through, Presidential elections. Putin does have the nation behind him, but not because some electoral farce says so. If by some magic trick, say, some court would strip Putin of all his legal powers, he still would have a much higher moral and, therefore, practical authority than any other person in Russia. Alexander Solzhenitsyn once said that all regimes can be positioned on a continuum ranging from regimes whose authority is based on their power to those whose power is based on their authority. Putin’s real power is not based on any Presidential election, nor is the based on the Russian Constitution, it is based on his moral authority with the Russian people. This is not something which can be expressed in percentages or numbers of cast bulletins, but it is no less real.

So the Empire’s goal is simple: not to replace Putin, at least not yet, but to prevent Putin from obtaining a clear majority in the first round. The plan is simple: if Putin gets a majority – denounce Russia as a non-democratic authoritarian state. If Putin by some miracle fails to get that majority, prove to the world that he is nowhere as popular as most people say he is and hope that all the anti-Putin forces combined will turn to Grudinin or Zhirinovsky (either one will do). If Grudinin goes into a 2nd round that will prove that Russia is a country with a strong nostalgia for the Soviet era (expect a myriad of references so Stalin in the Ziomedia), if it is Zhirinovksy, announce to the world that rabid Russian nationalists are about to invade the Baltics or nuke Turkey. When Putin eventually wins, declare that the election was stolen and explain to the zombified audience that Evil Vlad is nothing but the ideological sum total of commies and nationalists combined into one big “Russian Threat”.

Sounds stupid? Yes, of course. Because it is. But that’s the plan anyway.

The Saker

 
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  1. Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers.

    I suppose Kuzma Minin must be a figment of my imagination.

    Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    [MORE]

  2. bluedog says:

    It seems the “some what agree” and “some what dis-agree” have the board, with the strongly agree running somewhere back in the middle of the pack,which would be about right…

  3. By all accounts, and in diametrical opposition to what nonsense spewed by the AngloZionist propaganda, Putin is not at all a nostalgic of the Soviet era.

    This is risible. Calling Putin a soviet nostalgic was not done in a vacuum. It was done based on his own statements. Saker, you aren’t stupid, but write like it. A lot.

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it. Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed. We know Putin will win the next election because he’s the only one allowed to win an election. Putin is simply the head of a thugocracy. The place is owned by the Russian mafia and Putin is their face.

    Russia is declining. Not because of Putin’s non-existent neoliberalism, but because it is at war and does not have the economic resources to wage that war. Add in lack of necessity for that war, and you get the same sort of rubbish that killed the Soviet Union, and the end of Putin’s Russia will be the same as the Soviet Union’s.

    There is a Russian threat. But the direction of that threat is mostly directed at the Russian people who aren’t allowed to shed either the Soviet past, or the mafia present.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @jimbojones
    , @TT
  4. For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics.

    The only alternative to western-style economics is Venezuela style economic malaise. Teachers and doctors in Venezuela are offering sexual services in exchange for food. This is what non-western economic models deliver. That’s “Bolivarian socialism”. You want this for Russia?

    …not good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen. The pavements in central Moscow are littered with expensive German cars. Russian Orthodox priests are particulary fond of German cars along with their traditional penchant for gold jewelry. Their morals allow them to buy this stuff.

    he [Putin] seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.).

    Life expectancy in Soviet Russia piqued at 69 in 1964 and has been in a slow *decline* for the remainder of communist rule right until that system collapsed. After a crash during the 1990s, life expectancy began to recover during Putin’s rule. It reached 73 years in 2017 and still rising. Government’s “neoliberal” policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists.

    And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn’t want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    Putin should not be idealized. He is a typical post-Soviet crook, who was still wise enough to pursue orthodox economic policies to prolong the longevity of his regime. This is what Putin does: he is preserving his regime. He isn’t fighting any war – I have no idea where Saker got this from.

  5. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Minin’s fame hardly came from the fact that he was a butcher’s son or a successful trader, but from the fact that as a military commander he helped liberate Moscow from the Poles.

    You should really stop presenting PEW polls (or any such polls, we all know how accurate they are, who pays for them and what their purpose is) as the opinions of Russians.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  6. @Felix Keverich

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen.

    Can you please provide percentage of Russians who “CRAVE” money, the percentage of Russians who simply want decent normal life would also be highly appreciated. I would also like to ask about such percentages in US, Canada or, hey, what the hell–Japan. Definition of “craving” would also be helpful. Is a desire to get a better well-paying job, buy a decent house of drive good reliable vehicle a “craving” or is it something else? Percentage of those who “flaunt” would also be appreciated, is it 25%, 32% or 100%?

    This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    LOL!

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  7. @Felix Keverich

    Government’s “neoliberal” policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Pardon me, but you have no clue what are you talking about–a feature very typical for pretentious Russian “liberals” and, generally, office plankton. You definitely have very vague idea about Russia and Russians. Nor, obviously, you understand that Russia’s economic recovery, thus overall improvement of such metrics as life expectancy, was done on a radically non-neo-liberal economic agenda. In fact, in the last ten years revitalizing of Russia’s industry (from extraction to machine-building) was done precisely with the most active participation of the State be it re-nationalization of some major manufacturers or creation of gigantic conglomerates such as Rostec. This is just the small part of State’s (I deliberately omit here the term “government”) radically non-neo-liberal policies which actually saved Russia. You can BS some foreigner about 1990s, but not me.

  8. Jason Liu says:

    First, and this is crucial, Russia is at war. Let me repeat this: Russia is at war with the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that this war is roughly 80% informational, 15% economic and 5% kinetic does not make it less real or less dangerous, if only because these ratios can very rapidly change.

    So is China, except we’re not as aware of it. Especially the information warfare part.

    I think Putin should just kick democracy to the curb and make sure his opponents never have a chance to even deny him a majority. The west already regards Russia as an “non-democratic authoritarian state” anyway, it wouldn’t make a difference in terms of perception.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  9. @Anatoly Karlin

    Karlin, if you didn’t get the message yet, I repeat–most of your “sources” and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia–forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.

    • Agree: Kiza, yurivku
  10. @Jason Liu

    So is China,

    Yes and no. It is much more complex with China than with Russia. US-Chinese relations have a peculiar dynamics, although at some pint of time things may get really dicey, no doubt about it.

  11. @Quartermaster

    Russia has no more bleak a likely future than the massively indebted, corrupt, racially violent, culturally and linguistically balkanizing, opioid-suiciding, bridge-collapsing, high-tax, antifamily, morally perverse, and homosexualized USA.

    I’m praying for both of our countries to turn it around, each according to its own culture, traditions, and core people’s wishes (I.e. I want a less centralized system than Russia has, and than WE have for that matter, and generally more individual liberty than most Russians would want. America and Russia can develop on different paths and still be effective partners, increasing trade and military cooperation to destroy Islamists, crush piracy on the sea, deter and contain China to Asia, etc.)

    A piece of that restoration would be ending the belligerence, dishonesty, sanctions, and threatening troop movements that the us gov is perpetrating against Russia. Oh, and stop killing Russian and Syrian personnel who are fighting Islamists. And stop supporting ISIS and other Islamists, and intentionally letting them escape. Just for starters, WarMaster.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @Quartermaster
  12. @Andrei Martyanov

    most of your “sources” and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia–forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.

    Слив засчитан. Next stop.

    Nor, obviously, you understand that Russia’s economic recovery, thus overall improvement of such metrics as life expectancy, was done on a radically non-neo-liberal economic agenda.

    The USSR was drastically less neoliberal than Russia is even today (regardless of just how neoliberal or not you believe it is today).

    Yet as Felix correctly points out, LE peaked at just under 70 years in the mid-1960s, and stagnated until its collapse (the modest recovery back up to 70 years under Gorbachev was a short-lived artifact of his anti-alcohol campaign) – even as Western, far more “neoliberal,” nations surged ahead. Indeed, the USSR was one of the very few industrialized countries to see a sustained rise in infant mortality outside of wartime.

    So obviously lack of neoliberalism per se has fuck all to do with good LE performance or health outcomes in general.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  13. @Anatoly Karlin

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong (and I’m also Russian). it’s really a no-brainer that most Russians overwhelmingly dislike blatant capitalism (or even any capitalism) and don’t really have much respect for democracy either. if you made a poll tomorrow regarding the elections, my guess would be around 60-70% would say to just cancel the election and have Putin do another term.

  14. @Anatoly Karlin

    Слив засчитан. Next stop.

    Karlin, we have been through this before, haven’t we? Your “conclusions” about anything USSR/Russia related are mostly ignorant BS. You may pretend in your bubble that I “slil” whatever but to take seriously some pseudo-political “scientist” who has no clue nor skills to make competent assessment of just about anything other than some useless app on Smart-phone or what is “cool” or “not cool”, sorry. Let me demonstrate to you what is your “educational” background and “professional skills” worth–this is precisely your field:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/polls-got-wrong-trump-110421179.html

    I cannot take seriously a person who humiliates himself by questioning data by Russian Imperial General Staff or by writing manifestly incompetent articles on “military stuff” having no background whatsoever in any technology or operational issues. Check your own record, I didn’t write it–you did. So, if you want to tell me what was USSR, I repeat again–my daughter is older than you are–wrong address. Per yours and Felix’s so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again–you wouldn’t know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause. So, continue to count your meaningless points–that is the only skill you obviously learned in your “humanities’ Likbez (what was that Stanford, Berkely?) . As per Sliv, sure if it floats your boat–I slil. Take a cookie from the shelf and pat yourself on the back.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  15. @palmtoptiger

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

  16. Another mind provoking article from Saker. A lot of points are spot on. I disagree about Bolsheviks. I can understand Saker views based upon his background but not giving credit to at least pre Krushev communist party is not fair. They not only saved Russia which was dying at the time but took her to heights that Russia had never achieved before. Modern communists are such by name only and are revisionists opportunist and capitalists party by their nature. No argument here. Here comes the most hot topic Putin himself. Reading Saker one might imagine Putin fighting liberal hydra for some 19 years and still hydra is there as if nothing. I have to ask the premise that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners. Otherwise how to explain liberal dominance in the government, media which spreads lies about Soviet past and financial sphere. Another thing is that like in Soviet times there is clear lack of systematic approach toward power succession and lack of checks and balances which led to few times clear unfit personalities coming to power and worse ruining the state in the process with no mechanism of removal. Where is Putin taking Russia? Bright capitalistic heaven where u0% of everything owned by a few with the rest going into debt slavery by taking mortgages and other loans to pay for what once was paid by state and public funds? He did save Russia once but with this situation the question is for how long as I see no Stalin period like rocket like growth making ussr untouchable and independent. With so much wealth stole and offshore I think it is unlikely and here comes question of finally addressing privatization of 90s and probable return to socialism.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    , @Gerard2
  17. @palmtoptiger

    The problem is what after. Except that Putin is healthy virile man the whole situation is being repeated over and over. Brezhnev for example.

  18. @palmtoptiger

    You’re wrong (I’m also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    Saker is talking about a principled moral opposition to capitalism as economic system (not to be confused with envy of the rich, or the entitlement mentality). This simply doesn’t exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians’ lifes.

    The Russians are not particularly envious people either: like I said, we’ve got these huge imported cars, with toned windows, blocking pavements in central Moscow, and nobody tries to puncture their tires or smash windows or anything (in Latin America, they would smash windows).

  19. @Sergey Krieger

    that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners.

    I think he is slightly more complex–recall his arrival to power in 2000 (after being officially elected). First two things he does:

    1. Writes a serious article on Russian paternalism and its role in history;
    2. Receives (first, mind you) in Kremlin both Chikin (Sovetskay Rossya) and Prokhanov (Zavtra).

    Speaks volumes. Then, his literally two-three days ago statement about national strength in collectivism. He doesn’t worry about elections–he knows his numbers, so it is not pandering to electorate. What is there? I don’t know. But remember this–huge provocation is highly probable prior to elections. Ukraine? Syria? Don’t know but judging by the level of hatred towards him in the West and in some fringe circles of Russians–it is not a game. They DO hate him precisely because overwhelming majority of Russians supports him.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    , @yurivku
  20. @Andrei Martyanov

    Per yours and Felix’s so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again–you wouldn’t know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause.

    Actually not having an alcoholization epidemic is far more important. But okay, let’s have it your way.

    “Moral and psychological state” of the Soviet society 1965-1991:

    … in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now…

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    , @Glossy
  21. @palmtoptiger

    … dislike blatant capitalism

    I don’t think many people like “blatant capitalism” anywhere (whatever the hell “blatant” capitalism means). However, as the multiple polls I cited demonstrate, Russians clearly approve of free markets – in fact, in that respect, they are about average by the standards of post-Communist European countries.

    You are free to reference polls showing Russians are much less supportive of capitalism than other Europeans (i.e. what The Saker is claiming) – if you can find any. Otherwise, what you say is only your own opinion.

    Russians are indeed relatively much more skeptical about democracy, though they are not an absolute outlier there either. Good thing, then, that I didn’t claim otherwise.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  22. @Felix Keverich

    I’m also Russian

    Really? You sound like the mouthpiece of Echo Matzy.

    This simply doesn’t exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians’ lifes.

    So, what you say is tantamount to Russians not having in them a concept of good or bad, right or wrong. You see, also in accordance to James Clapper Russians are genetically predespositioned for penetrating, subverting–what have you. In general, Russians are untemensch. Have you tried to peddle your Russian “expertise” to CNN or MSNBC? I am sure you and Masha Gessen have a lot in common, so New Yorker or NYT may also be a consideration. I know hundreds of people in Russia and most of them do have concepts of right and wrong–and they come from different walks of life. Have you tried to change your social environment maybe? To get a better handle on reality or are you so “Russian” that you post a blatant lie and an open insult to the whole nation and think that this is normal?

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  23. @Anatoly Karlin

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.

    Yes, I left the remnants of USSR in my early 30s, being a grown up man and having some experiences in my life of which you can not even conceive. This is apart from losing everything we had in Azerbaijan. Feel the difference? Per your graphs–Karlin, how do you think if Western major institutes: economic, intelligence, military, to name a few, provided the world with a whopper of a failure to predict and forecast correctly most of the dynamics in post 9-11 world, with complete implosion of the so called American Russia expertdom being the most strategically and historically consequential, what should be my attitude to them. Mind you, those people, unlike you, many of them have a plethora of Ph.D degrees in all kinds of fields, publish regularly and yet–all they knew, including their “statistics”, turned out to be a complete crap–both about the West and, especially, Russia. How much do you think am I interested in discussing anything with pundit like you on the subject of which you have no grasp whatsoever and use the same methods which are completely discredited by now? Do you remember this:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you. I’ll be deliberately blunt–you simply lack academic, experience and other faculties required for understanding these issues. If the whole massive American Russia “study” field, with all of its massive inputs of academe, humint, signint, analytical institutions, think-tankdom couldn’t figure it out and failed miserably, what do you think is your input and place in all that? Some graphs from dubious sources, with dubious statistics, some data manipulation, some tendentious ideas and some dubious political views totally detached from reality? You have your audience and God bless but don’t expect not to be called out. Your voice on Russia has the same worth as that of Anne Applebaum, Julia Ioffe or Masha Gessen. Absolutely the same.

  24. @Quartermaster

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it.

    That’s logic reminiscent of “your wife doesn’t admit you’re beating her because she’s afraid of your fist” and “Trump must have stolen the election because he could never possibly have won”.
    And the assertion that “Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed” is just that – an assertion.

    Putin repaired Russia’s economy, reinforced Russian values, and scored significant geopolitical victories. He has been successful on all fronts – economic, cultural, and foreign policy. That, combined with his presentability, is why he is so popular. Same as why FDR was popular in Depression & WW2-era America. And same as why Merkel is still Chancellor in Germany. (Her tenure is comparable to Putin’s.)

    Long-term democratic rule by successful parties and individuals is a thing. Famous success stories such as Sweden and Japan went for decades under the same ruling party. Singapore did just fine under the guidance of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Now, Putin is no Lee Kuan Yew; and Russia is no Singapore. But that’s another topic.

  25. @Andrei Martyanov

    He is still enigma after so many years in power. He is very careful and as you said once thoughtful. Hence I am trying to look at overall picture. Improvements are there especially in defence industry and military. But constant smearing campaign on tv of the soviet past. Putin throwing here and there opinions about Lenin and Stalin. Closure of mausoleum on May 9. Education. I see very contradictory signs. What exactly he meant by paternalism? People who took everything throwing few bones. How paternalism even possible with so much stolen and offshore. Where is resources? I think a lot is concentrated on this ownership and privatization thing and basically the road Russia is going to continue on. I have no clue where Putin is taking Russia. Liberal project has been terrible failure. Putin just opened few pages from the soviet project and there is progress. I believe the time is to revisit the whole book. Too much good things there to just let it lay idle considering it was overall success in building state and providing people with most important things obviously with improvements. But That’s my musing. Putin next term is a done deal. Next 6 years will be decisive. I also wonder about your words about possible provocations from the partners. Is their real red lines which would tequire real response. After all time comes where real response is needed. They might actually do things that not acting really strong might undermine Putin standing with people.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  26. @Anatoly Karlin

    Is there going to be anything but the most blatant capitalism in Russia? Give me a break. I know you are a fan of Russia we all lost, thanks God, but Russia did have the most blatant capitalism already twice and it did not work well. Russia and capitalism are incompatible.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  27. @Andrei Martyanov

    That is a lot of words to say nothing.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  28. @Sergey Krieger

    Peak RSFSR GDPcc as % of US =~ 50%
    Current RF GDPcc (PPP adjusted) as % of US =~ 50%

    So the current model is not obviously inferior to the Soviet one, even though it is far from ideal capitalism (state controls ~70% of the economy, huge corruption, oligarchs who got to where they are by sleaze instead of talent, etc.)

  29. @Anatoly Karlin

    The chart you reproduce is the chart for several questions rolled into one.
    - One can be rich without money and expensive things.
    - One can have money, but not be rich and have expensive things.
    - One can have expensive things, but not have money or be rich.
    - Any combination of the above.
    No reputable poll would ask a question like that. It is a technique used to herd poll respondents into a predetermined conclusion.

    If the question “Would you prefer to be have enough money to live comfortably?” were asked, how many people do you think would respond negatively? Answering negatively implies a want not to live comfortably. That is the essence of this poll question. Further, there is no opportunity to quantify “rich”, what having money means, what “expensive” means, and/ what “expensive things” means. For example, a top of the line chef’s knife will set you back over $200. Despite it being totally utilitarian, many would see that as an “expensive thing”.

    The people whom Khrushchev distrusted are out to reclaim Russia.

  30. @Anatoly Karlin

    That is a lot of words to say nothing.

    As long as this “nothing” is not a BS, this is just fine with me.

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @yurivku
  31. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Stop trying to make sense. You’ll agitate the saker drones.

  32. Cyrano says:

    Democracy is a serious business and I don’t think it should be left to amateurs like the Russians to decide who is going to be their next president.

    Because let’s face it, in the last election they had the simplest of choices – only 2 candidates – and they still managed to elect the wrong one – Trump.

    If the Russians have any common decency left – they should allow the Americans to return the favor – and let THEM elect the next Russian president. Like they did it in the 90’s with Yeltsin.

    That’s all the Americans are asking for – give them another chance to elect a Russian president and the Russians may never need another one.

    • LOL: bluedog, polskijoe
    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @Ha ha
  33. Dissenter says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    That description fits also perfectly with The Saker, btw.
    In fact, I suspect that this pair, Karlin and The Saker, are in this issue together….I mean they play the opponents ad fight each other ( “blue on blue” it is called, as I was informed by an old strategist ), while BOTH spread nonsense and plain lies about Russia which just goes in full accordance with US last foreign policy line/statements.
    NONE of them has lived in Russia ever, and I fear almost never have visited it, nor represent in any way the oppinion or wishes of the Russian people/nation, but those of themselves and their ill aim against Russia because of what the Bolsheviks presumably did to their proviledged rich relatives a century ago….

    The Saker always does the same, in an article supposedly by a Russophile praising Putin he has just slided the notion just stated the other day by the very Nicky Halley at the UNSC calling the Russian current government a “regime” and for which was angrily summoned by Mr. Nebenzia…..

    You just ask yourself why The Saker needs to repeat everytime that he is a Putin fan-boy….and this to be continuously spreaded even by books written with this unique purpose….and why he is so promoted by such a number of “US alt-media”….

  34. Faker says:

    Has this guy, the Faker, who’s predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida for as long as I can remember, ever been right on anything?

    I remember his analyses on the Mistral fiasco, meaning his propaganda to deflect the fact that Putin and Russia had been humiliated yet again. I remember how it was supposed to crash France’s sales of military hardware, just to see France the following year hit record sales…

    The problem for the Faker and his pals online, like “1997 peak oil Orlov” or the FSB’ ZeroHedge, is that propaganda has reached its limits and that Russia is now facing reality economically (severe recession in the last 2 years… oh but wait, I thought it was Ukraine that was going to tank), militarily and geopolitically (who can keep track of the allies Putin has lost in the last few years?).

    Watch the great “empire slayers” China and Russia, which, I agree with commenters above are populated by people that are obsessed with money and materialism (funny that those who say all statistics out there are fake ask for stats for a fact everyone can observer with their very own eyes), cower as Trump turns up the pressure on North Korea and Syria.

    They will drop their allies like they’ve done for 20 years now very single time it got too warm in the kitchen. Ask Serbia, Iraq, Lybia, Cuba and others about their great ally Putin. Why would anyone want such an ally?

  35. @Felix Keverich

    You’re wrong (I’m also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    maybe not a “strong” opinion. but most people I know (and have met in my life in Russia) do have an opinion. and it’s really quite different from what Anatoly is trying to prove with his graphs. it’s much more like what Saker is saying (without any graphs).

    so.. even if those graphs are genuine (which is far from certain, given the very questionable sources they are from), it would just go to show that there’s “lies, damn lies, and statistics” (c).

  36. I don’t think many people like “blatant capitalism” anywhere (whatever the hell “blatant” capitalism means).

    it really depends. in the US quite a few people actually like it. and not even the 1%-ers (which is nowadays a good deal above a $500k/year income), no, just some rather regular competitive “salarymen” as the Japanese would say, making maybe a bit over $100k in a full-time corporate job. I’ve seen this quite a few times, basically advocation for a very pronounced social Darwinism and ideas in the vein of “if the guy has billions $, he deserves them” and “if someone’s too stupid to earn enough money to feed his family, let them starve”. and I’m not joking here, I’ve actually had stuff roughly of this tone said to me by American guys.

    in Russia such ideas would really not get even a 0.01% support, probably. which is what Saker is saying.

    Russians clearly approve of free markets

    did I deny that anywhere?

    You are free to reference polls showing Russians are much less supportive of capitalism than other Europeans (i.e. what The Saker is claiming) – if you can find any

    I think such polls are quite scarce and usually done by very much the wrong people (i.e. with a clear agenda). but the elections are a good indication, in a way. if Russians really endorsed Western-style liberal capitalism, they should overwhelmingly (or at least 10% of them) vote for Western-backed guys like Navalny (ok he kinda failed at the base premise of being a non-convicted-felon) or Sobchak (bonafide ultraliberal pro-Western ultra-freemarket capitalist).

    I’ll eat my hat if Sobchak gets over 10% in this election (and I’m being really cautious there). and that says it all.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Faker

    Has this guy, the Faker, who’s predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida

    This must have been written for you: http://thesaker.is/the-answer-to-the-idiots-question/

    • Replies: @Faker
  38. Seraphim says:

    Can we see here a re-enactment of the historical jousts between Slavophiles and Zapadniki, between the Old Believers and ‘Nikonians’, pseudo morphed (excuse the ‘spenglerism’) into Eurasianists and Atlantists, into Russians and not-so Russians?

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  39. Faker says:
    @Anonymous

    Sure, ad hominems , to which farm trolls resort to automatically when factually on the ropes, is going to solve all of the massive problems Russia faces.
    So go ahead, it won’t change the facts, certainly not the Faker’s track record.
    Faker and his pals have just recycled the old Soviet talking point that US society is about to collapse. It used to be every day on TV in soviet homes; now it’s moved to the Internet.
    Thing is, we all remember what actually collapsed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @RadicalCenter
  40. @Anatoly Karlin

    Those polls don’t use the definition “capitalism” in the actual questions, but terms like “freedom” and “market” which don’t necessarily conflate with Wall Street or oligarch controlled economies, which aren’t exactly an open or free market. So Saker isn’t completely off on this.

    For myself, I favor “free trade,” yet oppose global financial hegemony by relatively few powerful elites at the expense of the majority who don’t get to be a part of the cartels and hardly have any influence on the barriers to their benefiting equally from existing, controlled markets, against those with sufficient control of finance to use arbitrage to their own advantage.

    Freedom is hardly the ability of rogue elephants to crush everyone else underfoot in a closed room.

  41. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Faker

    Sure, ad hominems

    How can the reply to a question be construed as an ad hominem? Unless, of course, you immediately recognized yourself as qualifying for being the target of the reply :-P

    You call him a Faker and then come complaining about ad hominems? LOL!

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  42. Aedib says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The economics of Venezuela resembles in many issues the western-promoted liberal economics model of Ukraine. Lots of coincidences.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  43. @palmtoptiger

    Americans are largely referring to “blacks” when they say such things. Unfortunately, and apologies to all the smart or hardworking and decent black Americans, it’s generally a fair sentiment.

    Russians would feel differently if they were weighed down with tens of millions of somewhat-to-extremely-unintelligent Africans, with characteristically high aggressiveness and low impulse control, and a multi-decade record of widespread sloth and constant filth and intimidation in their neighborhoods (and in their wake wherever they go).

    In fact, I admire Russians enough to predict that they would take forceful measures against a group of people who murder, steal, harass, intimidate, threaten everyone wherever they are, take whatever is free without shame and without even seriously TRYING to get educated and work full time, and then have the f——g “nerve” to berate their victims. To use a modern vulgar expression that fits, Russians would not put up with the africans’ shit.

    People who are offended or dismayed by such “heartless” comments by Americans about the long-term / multigenerational poor, just come live with (and near) concentrations of African-“Americans” and see the reality. If entire generations of men of a race abandon their multiple children, abandoning multiple women to permanent poverty, and then blame everyone else of every other race for their intractable problems, we eventually get tired of them and we speak the truth “harshly.”

    Having said that, even a hardworking, decent person of any race is having a harder time surviving and prospering in the USA, under both major political parties.

  44. @Faker

    I’m an American and proud of it. But compare us to the country we had when the Soviets were predicting our downfall: we now have VASTLY higher levels of government debt, private household debt, opioid addiction, disability real and exaggerated, children born to people who never marry or even live together consistently, long-term underemployment of intelligent hardworking qualified people, infrastructure decay (failing roads and bridges), long-term welfare dependency, open hatred and intimidation or worse against whites, a Mexican “fifth column” that is being led to separatism and hostility against us (and is attaining the number to take political power and eventually secede), and more.

    We are far less socially and culturally cohesive than we were back then, in substantial part due to the suicidal decision to admit tens of millions of people of different races to settle here who do not share enough of our values, traditions, expectations, and do not have loyalty to us or our NATION.

    This includes one racial group (jewish people) and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated. This will make a critical difference in times of real scarcity and deprivation, let alone a major war.

    Whether or not it made sense to predict the usa’s collapse or impoverishment 30 or 60 years ago, it is an altogether too plausible prediction these days.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Faker
    , @anonymous
    , @yurivku
  45. peterAUS says:
    @Felix Keverich

    A very good comment, IMHO.
    Keep them coming, please.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Sergey Krieger
  46. @Fran Macadam

    Superbly stated, Fran. The people excoriating all “capitalism” typically are not talking about real free enterprise, fair competition, and a system where big corporations and subsidy-seeking leeches aren’t favored over smaller & family businesses.

    There are several very different systems that are being carelessly called capitalism without distinction.

    I don’t want the current western system of crony-capitalist / fascist sort-of-welfare-State, either.

    The “capitalism” that we largely used to have, the one I support, does NOT involve Privileges, subsidies, bailouts, or even lower effective tax rates for wealthy “connected” people, corporations, and paper-shuffling brokers and bankers who create little of tangible value and profit from deliberately confusing complex “financial instruments” at our expense.

  47. @Aedib

    I’d say the problem with the Ukraine is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation. The country has been chronically mismanaged since independence. It made a mess of its economic transition during 1990s, it was an even bigger mess than Russia’s mess, and consequently Ukraine’s post-communist depression was vastly more severe. Perennial political instability and later conflict with Russia didn’t help, but I’m sure you know the story.

    • Replies: @Aedib
  48. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    Just to clarify.

    Some of us reading/posting here would like to read a reality of Russia.
    In today’s paradigm that’s extremely hard to get.

    At one side there is The Empire’s effort to picture Russia as the Bad Opponent. That’s why people tend to read alternative views, as found on sites like this.
    At the other side, as expected, there is an organized effort by the regime in Moscow to counter that effort.
    Finding reality between those two is proving…difficult, for an average citizen in West.

    We can see the similar, or the same, principle here.

    So, it’s refreshing, and I find useful to read somebody who is:
    -in Russia, Russian and has Russian interests at heart. An average Russian living in Russia that is.
    -not a Putin fanboy.
    -not a Westerner.

    You appear to be one of those rare specimens on Internet.

    So, you’ll get attacked a lot around. A very good sign.
    Still, keep posting.

    BTW, there is the ignore option here. Using it, wisely, could be a good thing.

  49. Faker says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Can’t disagree with anything you said, and your post is much more constructive that the typical faker bot reply.
    But three words for you: global reserve currency. Good luck overcoming that.
    In fact China and Russia love them the green back. They cannot get enough of it. What currency does Russia exchange its valuable natural resources against again? Oh that’s right…

    • Replies: @Vidi
  50. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Kuzma Minin was considered a hero in Russia not because of his status as a businessman, but because of his role in organizing a volunteer army to face a Polish invasion, ie his patriotic performance. He was not a Cornelius Vanderbildt, J.P. Morgan or Cecil Rhodes, admired in the West for being rich.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  51. Aedib says:
    @Felix Keverich

    is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation.

    That’s the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin’s Russia; 90s Argentina and so on. Always the “inconsistent implementation”pretext. It seems that extremely opposite economic ideologies (Chavism and (neo)liberalism) end exactly in the same place: chaos.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  52. @Faker

    The Saker might be an ideologue who has predicted all ten of America’s (and Ukraine’s) past zero collapses, but unfortunately, so are you.

    Facts:

    1. Russia’s recession was pretty mild, and ended more than a year ago, anyway. And the Ukraine’s economy did tank during 2014-15, to a much greater degree than Russia’s.

    2. It is entirely possible that without Russia’s intervention that the Assad regime would have been gone by now, so it remains to be seen whether Russia has succeeded or failed there. As things stand today, Russia’s balance of success in Syria is modestly positive, although with the potential to go sharply negative.

    3. Your observations on North Korea seem to lack basic comprehension of the situation there. Hint: The Chinese aren’t exactly on the best of terms with KJU.

    • Replies: @Faker
  53. @anon

    Kuzma Minin is one of the great representatives of the classical merchant/warrior Russian archetype. The point is that there was no contradiction between making money and expressing martial valor (the same couldn’t actually be said of many European states, e.g. France, where the First Estate [nobles] were restricted from participating in commercial or industrial ventures – more in theory than in practice, admittedly).

    The people you reference came from a totally different era of history defined by burgeoning capitalism. Not comparable.

    Moreover, I do not even see how they are very relevant, since not many Americans particularly “admire” the robber barons. Americans do admire self-made businessmen, of whom there are aplenty (from Edison and Ford then, to Musk, Jobs, Gates, etc. today).

    You can count their Russian equivalents, whose achievements are far more modest anyway, on the fingers of your hands (e.g. Kaspersky, Galitsky).

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc. celebrate, which repressed independent enterprise only to give away the accumulated wealth accruing to 70 years of Russian toil and sweat to a small clique of mystery meat two-timers at the very end.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @anon
  54. @Aedib

    That’s the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin’s Russia; 90s Argentina and so on.

    That’s not true at all. There have been successful transformations as well: Czechia, Poland, to name a few in post-communist Europe. Kazakhstan is much more successful than other Central Asian stans. Estonia is more successful than Latvia and Lithuania…

    Poland’s level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine’s. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    , @Dmitry
  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc.

    LOL, we get it! You are the only “real” (official) Russian at Unz. All others are peddlers of fake ________ (fill the blanks).

    You really must feel insecure and threatened to feel the urge to spend so much time dissing them every time they write something all instead of writing something halfway interesting on your own, like a big boy.

    Why don’t you impress us and write something worth reading instead of barking up the passing caravans?

    • Disagree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  56. pyrrhus says:

    Russia is the only country that more than replaced its oil reserves last year, and it will be doing that for quite a while…Worldwide, the replacement rate was about 11%..This will become incredibly important as the decades pass.

  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Project much?

    Pointing out that traveling to russia a couple of times doesn’t make you an authority on russian politics doesn’t sound like the product of someone who is “threatened”.

    Do you know what strikes me as insecure? The saker has a position he knows is so indefensible that he has to post on his echo chamber a memo saying anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot. Maybe he should take up a job weaving invisible clothes for the emperor. He will find a ready market in the drones that populate his website.

    And yes the hypocrisy of raging on and on about the “Evil” empire while living in florida sucking off uncle sam’s tit is very relevant in gauging the motivations of someone who has little interest in presenting objective facts.

  58. Faker says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    1. It was Russia’s longest recession in a hundred years, from 2014 to 2017 (THREE years, that’s right three years of contraction… even the 2008 downturn did not have that kind of impact in the west). Auto sales plummeting double-digits, Rosfnet income cratering, Russia’s RTS index falling 30%, inflation in double-digits, etc. It was a total disaster and by all account it WAS the collapse that Faker, Orlov and the FSB’s ZeroHedge have been selling all those years. I can only imagine the impact on the average Russian household considering the average Russian income (roughly $400 a month… no wonder Faker is not leaving Florida anytime soon).
    And actually, after 2 quarters of growth, things are looking shaky again. If the U.S. moves the WC to another country, the Russian economy is toast.
    2. I’ll let the news of the day speak for itself (Assad will learn something Novorussian are all too familiar with).
    3. They simply are not ALLOWED to be on good terms with whomever the North Korean leader might be as long as Wall Street does not approve of said leader. Trump says “jump” and Xi says “how high?”

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  59. Cyrano says:
    @Faker

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.

    To that I would say why shoot someone while he is busy committing suicide. As for loyalty to their allies, US has done helluva job for theirs – they swarmed Europe with refugees, forced down their throats the stupid ideology of multiculturalism, dragged them into unnecessary wars – like Afghanistan. Who has done more to betray their allies – US or Russia?

    • Replies: @Faker
    , @Kiza
  60. @peterAUS

    You likes to listen what you want to hear. from few his posts I already see his opinion represents himself and very few other. Basically his opinion means nothing.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  61. Faker says:
    @Cyrano

    I cannot disagree with you. But I’m not comparing countries. I am talking about the balance of power. And it’s not because western nations are cesspools that we have to pretend Russia is Eden and Putin a Greek God or something.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  62. Cyrano says:
    @Faker

    To that I would say that as long as Russia is Eden for the Russians – that’s all that matters. It’s irrelevant, actually it’s even highly desirable that Russia remains “unattractive” to anyone but the Russians – to prevent being overrun by multiculturalists like the west is.

    Also, as long as Putin is enough of a Greek god to the Russians so they continue to vote for him – who cares if the west likes him. To the twisted minds in the west – a leader of any country in the world is good only if their moral highnesses of the west approve of him/her. That’s baloney, a leader of any country in the world is good only if the people of his own country approve of him.

    • Agree: bluedog
  63. Seraphim says:

    Where Saker is absolutely right is that: “Russia is at war with the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that this war is roughly 80% informational, 15% economic and 5% kinetic does not make it less real or less dangerous”. As it always was. The themes of the anti-Russian propaganda have been fabricated long, very long ago.

    Russia has to be made to look bad, bad, very bad. The country is the backward shithole it always was, occupied by a bunch of barbaric drunkards, old Russia was a medieval obscurantist tyranny, Peter the Great was bad, modernization of Russia was bad, the Czars were bad, Stalin was bad, Putin is the worse. Only the revolution was good as long as it was manned by the ‘internationale’, but it was taken over by the barbaric Russians. Communism was bad, what followed was bad, what is now is worse than anything. Russians crave for money and despise money at the same time. They crave for western cheese, and at the same time they cut their ties with that source of goodies.
    Anything good (or only reasonable) said about Russia are lies, Potemkiniads.
    And in the end the Testament of Peter the Great would be produced. Look what they are really up to! We must defend ourselves and prevent this deadly morass to spill over, nah we must drain it and sanitize the land.

  64. peterAUS says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    You likes to listen what you want to hear.

    At least I don’t censor/ban anyone as the author of this article. You…anyone…can write anything you/they want.

    I already see his opinion represents himself and very few other.

    I see. The number of people supporting some opinion is important. Funny.

    Basically his opinion means nothing.

    To you and probably millions of people of this planet too. Good.

    It means something, so far, to me, and probably a couple of other guys too. That’s the point.
    Free speech brother.Making your own call based on input. Exactly what he mentioned in his comments here, BTW.
    I know, hard concept to get from “over there”.

    Anyway….you “ignore” him. And me, of course.
    I do it all the time with some other people around.

    Free will.
    Hard concept to get too?

  65. Knee-jerking Eltsin’s memory does not obscure the fact that it was he who broke the ancien regime nomenklatura and plucked VVPutin out of obscurity.

    Let us hope that Putin is as perceptive in the choice of his successor.
    .

  66. Glossy says: • Website
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I agree completely. Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you’re doing a great job.

    I’ll explain to everyone what kind of “nationalist” Karlin is. In America every neocon publication claims to be pro-American. They talk about American exceptionalism, defending American interests around the world. It’s just dust that they throw in your eyes. They hate America. Don’t be fooled, folks.

    I’m not Russian, but I know a few things about that country. The sort of rhetoric that Karlin uses, his loyalties, all of his neocon worldview: that’s the most Russophobic stuff on earth.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  67. @Faker

    More specifically, it was half a year of contraction from mid 2014 – a whopping ~3.5% of GDP – followed by a two year stagnation (-0.2% GDP growth in 2016) – followed by recovery from the start of 2017.

    This is compared to a -10% recession during 2008-2009, and a -40% depression in the 1990s.

    The impact on living standards was extremely modest, since it was only the prices of imported goods that significantly went up relative to incomes. Also, inflation has never been lower in Russia’s post-Soviet history.

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.

    That The Saker, ZeroHedge, etc. have been concocting – which has about as little relation to Russia, China, reality in general, etc. as your ramblings.

  68. Yevardian says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I believe what Mr. Keverich was clumsily trying to express was that Russians don’t quite the same black-and-white, Manichean, moral crusader mentality as that of many Americans.
    I agree with gist of your argument, but you’re being overly defensive and churlish. Perhaps meeting so many Americanised Russians abroad has left a sour taste.

  69. kemerd says:

    I agree with Saker in that Putin is neo-liberal but disagree on the part that Putin believes in social democracy. My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms. It is, BTW, why I think Putin’s responses to American aggression is muted, or that he still does not get rid of 5th columnists: he really does not want to alienate them totally and waits for a faction in western elite to take over that would recognize Russian oligarchy as equals. In my view, this is never going to happen: as Saker frequently points out, because of the cultural tendencies of the west, they have never considered Russia as equal partners and will never do. In fact, the only reason they could not suck the blood of Russia to the bone and let the country slip from their fingers is their total disregard for the interests of Russian elites which do want their country and themselves be regarded as equals to their western partners.

    However, this is their main weakness: they cannot beat imperialists on their own game. The correct course of action is to fully reject them: i.e. withdrawal from IMF, World Bank, and other financial institutions, placing controls on the transfer of capital, nationalizing strategic industries, etc. Obviously, these are actions which will reduce the power of the oligarchy in Russia and thus impossible to implement by Putin (unless an open conflict with the west forces him to do so to put the economy in complete war footing). Incidentally, Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics. And, such leaders could not care less what the westerners think and write about them, unlike Putin

    • Agree: Yevardian
  70. Che Guava says:

    Good evening, the Saker.

    I distinctly recall you having an article posted here a week or two ago that was full of praise and hope for Grudinin.

    Sure, anybody can change his or her mind, but as a commentator rather than a commenter, you should have mentioned your earlier opinion, and said a little more about why you changed your mind.

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.

    In any case, anyone on Unz for a while knows that you never reply to comments here, probably don’t even read them, so the only people who will read this will be other commenters.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Aedib
    , @prusmc
  71. Are Putin et al going to go into hyperventilation-mode about American meddling in the Russian elections before or after the election? Maybe they can indict some bigwigs at Google, FaceBag and Twitter for taking long lunches to conspire against Russia on behalf of the Empire.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  72. 9You were not talking about free will while pretending to try to free former socialist countries from so called commie tyrany by planning to nuke them into oblivion and when that option was off the table constantly keeping the tensions up and intervening everywhete killing millions. Do not try your free will on me. First stop sticking your collective nose where it does not belong. Felix represents small sliver of society that are basically so far from reality that makes their opinion worthless. Not only that but worst enemies of the soviet people came from this part of society that led directly to situation when so many former Soviet people are not where they were born and supposed to live and Russia yet again having to go through hard times and restoration.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  73. Kiza says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Please let me call out for your inconsistency – you say that he is below your level but you keep engaging in a discussion with this aggresive and stupid mug who probably has a worthless graph for when he should go to toilet.

    Nevertheless, I personally benefited from your explanations because I am not Russian and could not counter such character as you can.

    Personally, what I find most stupid from this clown is how he draws inferences from the data in front of him, here is one little example: “Indeed, the USSR was one of the very few industrialized countries to see a sustained rise in infant mortality outside of wartime. So obviously lack of neoliberalism per se has fuck all to do with good LE performance or health outcomes in general.” Therefore, one case (real or propaganda created) of decreased life expectancy is sufficient to prove that neoliberalism cannot be (also) associated with the drop in life-expectancy.

    From the assumed non-correlation the self-esteemed scientist Karlin draws a non-causation which fits his ideological bias. The only mitigating factor is that the West is full of “statisticians” such as Karlin, thus his lack of understanding of what he is talking about does not stand out in such environment. As someone who worked a lot with statistical data I have a title for such people: data bamboozlers – they bamboozle themselves and their lessers with their quasi-learned explanations of the data collected. An even more common dumb error of such people is to disregard the bias in data collection. As long as data say what those want them to say then the bias does not exist. This is, for example, how Hillary lead in all polls before the election.

    Karlin’s little comment above is so out of the ballpark that even on its own (I do not read his rubbish writings) would immediately classify him as a worthless dill, not worth reading or engaging in a discussion with.

  74. Kiza says:
    @Cyrano

    The problem is not that US swamp dwellers want to elect the President of Russia, the problem is that a group of the so called Russians want to help them in that noble endeavour and are very actively trolling the self-determination writers such as the Saker. Even many US people support self-determination of other countries, but the Russian neo-liberals are craving for the AngloZionist masters, to put them into positions of power.

    For the similar trash in the country I came from, I used to say: They are the patriots who want to come back to their home country on top of a US tank waving the US flag of freedom.

    • Agree: Cyrano
  75. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Che Guava

    the Saker praising Grudinin?!
    that was not the Saker, it was Israel Shamir

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  76. The usual mass of irrelevant detail designed to bog the discussion down. The message is just a re-hash of the author’s standard message: Vladimir Putin is good. I hooted with laughter at Putin’s “superb foreign policy”.

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @Dmitry
  77. Aedib says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I don’t think so. Main driving forces for Czechia and Poland were Eurofunds and relocation of German industry there. Kazakhstan development path is more related to authoritarian capitalism, China style, rather than to Milton Friedman’s mythology.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  78. Aedib says:
    @Che Guava

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.

    After-Putin fear seems a little bit exaggerated. A FSB guy should be similarly competent, even a little bit more. I would like to see Bortnikov after him but he has the same age. Think in someone like him but younger.

  79. @Anatoly Karlin

    Anatoly pulls up the Faker again. The Faker needs to look at the data and get some ground level experience before writing another word about Russia and Russians. Let’s have him on America.

  80. @Anonymous

    The Romanov’s themselves were successful merchants. Then there is Ermakov extracting furs as tribute, not even paying for them.

  81. @Andrei Martyanov

    Is alcohol restriction totalitarian or neo liberal? Perhaps its neither.

    Disdain for wealth in Russia might have a gender bias. Women usually manage the household budget in my observation and many seem to rank a man by the brand and age of his car more obviously than in the UK.

  82. @Andrei Martyanov

    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist “It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty”. Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

    Anatoly speaks English with a Russian accent and he has gone to Russia to live. So I value his thoughts far about Saker’s babblings.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Ivan K.
  83. @jimbojones

    I have said this many times since I first put it forward on Untimely Thoughts (Peter Lavelle’s now defunct group for Russian specialists in 2008. Putin is closest to De Gaulle, complete with botched decolonization. United Russia is very Gaullist except that the religious wing is strong. You will see others recycle this.

  84. Jason Liu says:

    Of interest: China just removed term limits for President Xi. Just like that.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/25/world/asia/china-xi-jinping.html

    Russia next?

  85. @Sergey Krieger

    I disagree. Where there is a competitive market economy there have been improvements. The major places to find corruption are in the state sector.

    I deal mostly with private companies. There has been reform after reform. It is no longer possible to steal a company by waving a gun at the receptionist and taking the stamps (often kept at reception so that visitors can have their travel documents stamped to show they really arrived there). There are many kinds of sausages on the shelves. Some people chose to pay 30 Rub a kilo for French potatoes others pay 6 Rub for Belarussian ones or those from a pensioners dacha (not so many selling like that now).

    It’s a long time since I met anyone complaining about quarter pay or no pay at all for 6 months. The problem is too little competition not too much, Saratov Airlines being an example. A cash machine for its owners.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  86. @Seraphim

    You forgot the Rodnovery. I seem to be surrounded by them. There are farms full of them in Vladimir province.

  87. @Aedib

    No. Poland managed a doubling of GDP before joining the EU. There was a bad 18 months of high unemployment and then things took off again. Unlike Russia, Ukraine didn’t even attempt serious privatisation. It was all crony capitalism. No free markets in anything serious.

  88. @Felix Keverich

    That is obviously your very Ameerikun point of view. But it is sadly screwed by CNN/BBC, etc. The Saker is very close to the heart of things. Hey, but don’t take my point of view…I only come from the same place Elon Musk hails from. So we actually know nothing…

  89. Kiza says:
    @Michael Kenny

    Maybe you should have been braying with laughter, it would have suited you better. Putin’s foreign policy is pretty admirable and thanks to it you and I are all still alive.

  90. @Glossy

    Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you’re doing a great job.

    As I recall, that’s not what you were saying when you contributed more than 1,000 comments to my blog between 2010 and 2017.

    • Replies: @Glossy
    , @Gerard2
  91. Glossy says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I argued with you for most of that time.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  92. prusmc says: • Website
    @Che Guava

    Foftunately, the US is not like Russia. When the current Potus is removed, we have a stable of quality people ready to take the helm: Biden, Opra, Murphy, Kamala, Kaine, Booker, Schumer, Sanders, Sherod (wife beater) Brown as well as HRC to be a modern day Jennings Bryan.

    • LOL: Kiza, Che Guava
    • Replies: @Che Guava
  93. Ha ha says:
    @Cyrano

    LOL! LOL!!

    Sure, once Americans set up democracy in any country, that country will never again need anything else. That is the one sure advantage of being dead.

  94. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Well, being a Russian I do confirm that Saker takes too much to speak for all Russians. So does Karlin, but he’s a liberal so it’s not a surprise. For you to know – liberals are most hated part of society (if not to speak about gays).

  95. Ha ha says:

    The one sure thing about Russia and them Russians is that if you want to trigger a free-for-all fist fight just mention Russia or Russians. Will work in most American settings. Will equally certainly work in Russian settings – as is evident here by the number of acrimonious posts between Russians.

    The Chinese are cleverer. They no talk, no fight, just make more money.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  96. peterAUS says:
    @kemerd

    Agree, up to

    Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics.

    Just don’t see anything related to “communism” having any practical future in former “communist” countries. in foreseeable future.

  97. Kiza says:
    @kemerd

    Absolutely great insight, I agree with Saker but even more with you. I would venture a suggestion that, although with quite different complexities, the same would apply to China and its elite. The AngloZionist elite would never accept the Russian or the Chinese elite as equals and this is the main reason that a global alliance of the powerful against the powerless will never happen, despite being predicted by so many authors. I would speculate that one of the main reasons is the Jewish view of others as goyim or cattle – would you consider a leading bull of a heard as equal to yourself? It is a barrier. The Anglo elite is only less blunt about this, but not much different.

    It is funnily ironic how one cultural feature of the current rulers of the World is going to generate a bipolar World and a clash of two empires.

    In essence, what Saker and you are saying is that Putin has done fantastic things for Russia but he is a man of the past who has reached his personal limits and Russia is in a need of a new leader to take her to the next stage. But there is no such on the horizon – that is the key issue of the forthcoming Russian election.

    • Replies: @TT
  98. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I wouldn’t say overwhelming majority supports him. But yes, probably a majority, most of which just afraid of changes.

  99. peterAUS says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    You touched a big and serious topic. To properly discuss it we’d need a day in person, at least. Probably several days.

    Well….I’ll say just this:
    You are correct with The Empire’s betrayal of Soviet peoples (or, better, peoples behind the Wall). As a matter of fact the same Empire betrayed its own people, or at least majority of them and keep doing that.

    You are not correct equalizing Western ideal with The Empire, though.

    You are correct in

    Felix represents small sliver of society

    Some people, probably also a small sliver of society, in West, believes that tiny minority in Russia is on the right track to make things better for an average citizen there and the world in general.

    As to

    led directly to situation when so many former Soviet people are not where they were born and supposed to live and Russia yet again having to go through hard times and restoration

    the same tiny minority in West and Russia believes it is nomenclatura/olygarchs/the obscene top there, which is to blame.
    And those are result of something deeper in Russia culture, even psyche.
    The idea is that, by changing that underlying layer, there won’t be any of those “obscene on top” of that type.

    So, you are welcome to stick to your thoughts and ideas, post, comments, whatever.

    And we, that tiny minority, will stick to ours as well.

    Free will and free speech.
    For now.

  100. @Philip Owen

    I have never heard of sausage being one of the more important things in human life. On the other hand shelter, medicine, education, stability in employment and confidence in the future are. In every aspect i just mentioned situation in russia is not rosy and from what I hear far worse than it used to be. Let’s take shelter. People now have to go into life long dent slavery to get place to live. Considering lack of normal rentals many have no choice. It used to be that people were getting their apartments for free usually after few years of work and your truly got one bedroom apartment immediately upon graduation along with position. Unfortunately it was summer 1991. I was the last generatìon who suffered this miserable destiny. Now people are so very happy to get some loan and go shopping with greater freedom of choice to get something and then having to pay 2-3 time more than they borrowed over 30 years of the mortgage term. I would not even go into other expenses related to having shelter. It used to be truffles in Soviet times. Situation is still greatly eased by Soviet era apartments being trasfered from grandparents and parents to siblings. Just wait when this resource left from soviet times finally dries out. Medicine and education….. want to go there with your private capitalistic being better. Confidence in the future? Stability at work? Sure, it was all worth it to have 200 sausages which probably barely contains any meat.

  101. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @RadicalCenter

    This includes … and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated.

    Yeah, like you white spiritual losers are any trustworthy, after the kind of mischief, plunder and murder your kind has perpetuated around the world, over centuries? The very thought is ludicrously laughable. Haha!

    But, I am not laughing, as I count the millions (possibly a billion, indirectly) your cursed kind has murdered… in the worship of your “Demon Religion” aka White Supremacy… to quench your insatiable Greed and Psychopathy. A pox has long been due on your kind.

    The rest of what you say may be true for those “chosen” cultists, but in the context of Islam and its truly universal message of True Monotheism… pure deceit.

    Inferior human beings… while your kind slaughters us for exactly that perceived “crime”? White Man’s Deceit.

  102. Che Guava says:
    @Anonymous

    Thank you for the accurate correction.

    Mea culpa.

  103. Kiza says:
    @Cyrano

    You are not wrong but you are pointing a finger at a wrong people. It is not US who has done this to Europe then the Zionist Bolshevics/Neocons running US and nominally the US Empire. You speak of the treatment of US allies, but the same ideologues are flogging their main US workhorse to its financial death. Finally, the same group projected themselves into the stories of Hitler’s hubris, whilst theirs is unmatched in the history of humanity.

    Parasites which kill their main host and all associated hosts and themselves (in a real nuclear holocaust) in the process. A little bit of modesty and they could have ruled the World.

  104. @Glossy

    I argued with you for most of that time.

    This is clearly incorrect.

    I should say that that photograph was first brought to my attention by Anatoly Karlin who runs a great blog about Russia called Da Russophile. – Glossy, Jan 2014

    Anatoly, I hope you’re OK and that you can return to blogging soon. – Glossy, Oct 2016

    Actual timeline:

    2010-15/16 – You consider me “a great blogger,” I am one of about five on your own blogroll (and I reciprocate in kind)

    2016/17 – You become increasingly preoccupied with anti-Soviet neocons and your rather strange theory that Stalin was a conservative (indeed commenting about little else). And yes, we start arguing more frequently (though most of your disputes are actually with AP).

    July 2017 – You get very triggered by an anti-Stalin comment (!) I made on Twitter (that was not even addressed to you in particular) on his killings of Russian geneticists:

    … and proceed to state that I am an “anti-sovok bastard” (okay, I plead guilty – please give me the chance to leave on a philosopher’s ship when you seize power), demand I remove your blog from my blogroll (which I comply with), and Block me.

    Though not before repeating that you did actually like my blog:

    Believe it or not, I bear no ill will towards you, and I appreciate your contributions over the years. However, I can’t let such blatant misrepresentations stand.

    • Replies: @Glossy
  105. Kiza says:
    @Ha ha

    Ok, so when you, the Chinese, make enough money, you will be accepted by the Owners of the World, and your financial interests will be respected?

    Just as in Libya perhaps, how many billions of dollars of your investment did you lose again?

    • Replies: @utu
  106. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Don’t believe the writer for a second. He comes here and paint a colony, Russia, in a good light to fool the dummies. Why Russia does not face the mass murderers, Israel and US, more forcefully. If Russia and Jew lover, Putin, cannot do it then he must fuck off from Syria. Muslims cannot tolerate another Russia and Putin. How many times Russia wants to SELL MUSLIMS TO THE CRIMINAL WEST AND BABY KILLERS, ZIONISTS, and FOR A FEW BONES. We have not forgotten how Russia and traitor Putin SOLD LIBYA. Today, Putin still is COOPERATING WITH CRIMINALS, US AND ISRAEL, to keep the interest of his masters, the Zionist jews. Putin must face it or fuck off now. He cannot turn Syria into different zone of interest and collude with the terrorist Erdogan to save the baby killers, Zionist Jews, and USA. The history tells us that the racist Russians want to repeat the same treason they committed in Iran after WWII, divided Iran into sphere of influence in the North and South, where Russia ruled in the north to steal Iranian territories and South went to the British criminals, colluding with terrorists Americans and Erdogan to control Syria against Assad and Iran. But the traitor Putin cannot do that. People much smarter than he, the Zionist stooge, are.

    As Andrew Korybko in “ The Kurds Have Backed Damascus into a Corner” correctly writes:

    [To that end, Russia wants military hostilities to end as soon as possible so that it can use its influence over the political process to divvy out de-facto spheres of influence to every competitor, thereby making it the indispensable Mideast power. The problem is that both Syria and Iran are against this design: Damascus is opposed in principle and also because it believes that anything less than liberating ‘every square inch” of the country like President Assad promised would discredit him, while Tehran fears that it and its Hezbollah allies will be “backstabbed” during this process and compelled to withdraw from Syria. That’s why these old partners are coordinating with one another in order to keep hostilities simmering for as long as possible in the hope that the resultant uncertainty can create windows of opportunity for them to push back against their Turkish, American, and Israeli rivals’ spheres of influence.
    Russia wised up to their game plan and is increasingly losing patience with both of them, knowing full well that its grand strategic vision risks being undermined by Syria and Iran if these latter two succeed in their objectives. Moscow believes that it has more to gain in the long term and in view of the “bigger picture” by pragmatically going along with Turkey and Israel’s sphere of influence claims while simultaneously reaching a “gentlemen’s agreement” with the US for passively accepting its own in the Kurdish-controlled northeast, but all of Russia’s hard-fought diplomatic-strategic work is now endangered because Syria appears to have heeded Iran’s presumed advice in backing up the PYD-YPG Kurds in Afrin against the Turks.]

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-kurds-have-backed-damascus-into-a-corner/5630031

    Don’t trust Saker for a second. He is misleading. Russia and China, two petty colonies, always have sided with the racist criminal west, against Muslims.

    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
    , @yurivku
  107. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich

    You are not Russian, as max you are rossianin, please use your true nationality when writing such a russophobic bs.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    , @polskijoe
  108. @Sergey Krieger

    In every aspect i just mentioned situation in russia is not rosy and from what I hear far worse than it used to be.

    Statistics below MORE to avoid cluttering up this thread.

    [MORE]

    shelter

    medicine

    education

    Hard to measure, but IQ is going up:

    stability in employment

    Okay, USSR “wins” here. You had to really “try” to be fired there. Results: Extreme lack of productivity and overmanning, destruction of work ethic, etc.

    confidence in the future

  109. Glossy says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I remember arguing with Karlin about this data. As I recall, he admitted that the Soviet life expectancy numbers he used were not the official numbers released by the Soviet government. Which implies to me that they were made up by the CIA, as part of the same campaign as the “30 million killed by Stalin” stuff.

    As everyone who saw the 1990s knows, the real misery in Russia started when Karlin’s side won.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  110. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Pretty sure that America, Brazil and China would have won on this list, if they had entered. Also Japan would be high up here, if certain metric is indication

  111. utu says:
    @kemerd

    My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms.

    This how I also see it. For this reason I was always skeptical of those who put hopes in Putin’s Russia as a genuine opponent of the Zio-Amercian Empire. Putin actions and in-actions should be understood as playing for time and gaining some leverage for a better position at the negotiating table. They want to sit at the sam table with the Empire while the Empire still sees them as dish to be consumed at this table.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  112. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Poland’s level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine’s. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

    Poland received hundreds of billions of dollars in EU subsidies and transfers. Not a fair comparison. Even still today they are receiving this transfer of wealth from net contributor countries in the EU (there’s another good reason EU became unpopular in net contributor countries like the UK and the Netherlands):

    https://msp.gov.pl/en/polish-economy/economic-news/4015,Poland-to-get-nearly-EUR-106-bln-from-2014-2020-EU-budget-pool-expected-impact-o.html

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  113. @Glossy

    No, I did not say that. I did say that the Soviet Union hid its mortality data for a good chunk of the 1970s-80s, because it was embarrassing, though American academics such as Murray Feshbach managed to infer it (as it turned out, quite accurately, when the USSR starting releasing data again come glasnost).

    If you believe the figures I cited are CIA figures, well, apparently they are Rosstat’s figures as well – feel free to write them a complaints letter.

  114. @kemerd

    It probably shouldn’t be forgotten that Putin’s government did make “Holocaust” denial illegal.

  115. Dmitry says:
    @Michael Kenny

    As typical for the website. A not particularly serious article but – followed by interesting debates or arguments in comments underneath it.

  116. @yurivku

    Look, this is a country that still aborts its babies at the rate way above global average, and apart from occasional, meek complaints from the Russian Orthodox church, nobody ever bothers to examine the morality of it all. The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.

    Saker imbues Russians with qualities that they as a nation do not posess. To me this lowers his value as an analyst. As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  117. Glossy says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Most of the time I did argue with you. About the legality of drugs and the harmfulness of homosexuality, about HBD, Freud, planned versus market economies, etc. You always took the liberal position. The first comment I remember making on your old site was about your social liberalism. I wrote that I was liberal too at your age, and that I would have appreciated if someone had challenged my beliefs then.

    I take back the nice things. I’m human, so I make mistakes. Your side is evil. You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner is grotesque. Your side has caused so much suffering for so many innocent people. You’re allied with the forces that pulled off 1917 and 1991 and which are planning a third act now. I wish you and yours failure in all your endeavors.

    You can pretend to hate Lenin all you want, but the revolution was made by exactly the kind of people who use the word “sovok” now, exactly the kind who were anti-Soviet in the 1980s. It’s not a weird connection to make. Millions of people have noticed this. Labels change, realities remain.

    And when you’re pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.

    Why doesn’t your side, SiP, Gessen, Applebaum, etc. embrace Lenin, Trotsky, etc. now? Cowardice, dishonesty, expediency. I remember when the movement to which you belong did embrace him. In the late 1980s the liberalizing trend explained itself to the public as getting back to Lenin’s ideas. Which was at least honest. The first iteration of Solzhenitsin’s BS, back around the time of the war, was “getting back to Lenin after Stalin perverted his ideas”.

    And even if we disregard what happened after 1917, even if we only look at the 1990s, your side destroyed so much. And all of your attempts to portray the late USSR as dysfunctional are excuses. What you’re saying is “we didn’t didn’t break it, it was already broken before us.” You’re legitimizing that excuse, made by all of those thieves and murderers. You’re illustrating it with graphs, writing a legal brief for the worst criminals of our time.

    And I don’t know what’s the deal with you personally. Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are? I’m not clairvoyant. There’s certainly a market for people who say what you say. There are powerful interests who want such messages to get out, and I don’t think you have another job. But there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push.

    I’m tired of debating all of this with you. I may not even check back on this discussion later. It’s unpleasant, and I have things to do. Smoothie is made of sterner stuff – not surprising, given his profession – so he can bear you for longer.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @utu
  118. Dmitry says:
    @Philip Owen

    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist “It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty”. Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

    The charts and ‘statistics’ are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers’ ranting in (I admit) impressive English. It doesn’t mean that there are anything authoritative to conclusions drawn from these ‘statistics’. It is still interesting to see them and he does a service to the internet by posting them here. As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions. If he runs as a politician, I would not vote for him or understand what he actually thinks. But the guy has a valuable talent to generate the interesting discussion and comments, and which is probably the more important thing in blogging.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  119. Johnj says:

    Saker does not take note of the Chinese political and economic model. Is that because Saker is wedded to some false Western point of view? Or does he feel that the Russian people are not culturally able to follow that path. He readily admits that they reject most of the thrust of Western capitalism. Well why cannot the Russian people develop capitalism? Are they not motivated to strive and succeed in a business that serves the general welfare?

    Has the outlook of the Russian people been poisoned by Marxism from the Soviet era? Why are Russians not stirred by the accomplishments of China. Where is Saker to answer these questions.

  120. utu says:
    @Kiza

    Agree on Libya: 30,000 Chinese work evacuated. But I do not agree on oligarch elites of Russia and China. The plan is to turn them and absorb them.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  121. @Dmitry

    Energy subsidies from Russia to the Ukraine are estimated at hundreds of billions of dollars since 1991. The Ukraine has been well subsidized since independence. What they have been desperately lacking is governance.

  122. @Glossy

    Your side is evil.

    Fan of the Georgian Borat giving lectures on morality.

    And when you’re pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.

    Sure thing.

    Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are?

    I prefer to give weight to facts, statistics, polls, and so forth.

    That said, I do realize that you have your own standards:

  123. utu says:
    @Glossy

    Your imputations that AK is some kind of leftist and crypto-Leninist and so on are totally wrong. The leftists are not winning where it really matters. He prefers to be on the winning side.

    You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner

    there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push

    I do not think you will find more than one ounce of humanitarianism in him. He is rather the might-makes-right guy who will position himself on the meaner side because this side is usually more likely to win. The gateway to it for young men are utopian/dystopian science-fiction novels and then being snatched by libertarianism. There is no metaphysics as it is too deep and thus it is replaced with scientism. It is all superficial and trite with a lot of hype as any TED talk you may hear. Darwinism and its bastard IQism is given inordinate explanatory power. Transhumanism is the ersatz transcendentalism in this belief system. It takes some intelligence to hold this kind of universe together. Being on the autistic side of the spectrum (like Sailer) helps. One focuses on numbers, statistics and data that then one force to conform to Darwinism and IQism. The confirmation bias in this pseudo-scientific endeavor rules all the time. The same autistic elements help to shield one from human and humanitarian instincts like expressing empathy and compassion for underdogs that could potentially put dangerous cracks in this Weltanschauung. Ultimately everybody is a machine though for some unexplained reason there will be big cries when one’s rights are violated without ever question why did the machine came into the possession of any rights. And yes, there are many people who have been seduced or snatched by it. Chiefly by lack of early exposure to classical education and decline of religion in society.

    Is his side really winning? On the surface when one looks at media or TED talks populated by vulgar Darwinists like Pinkers or Sam Harrises and all the neocons and they power and then at glorification and triumphalism of being a member of the tribe one may get an impression that yes, this side is winning. But who know, perhaps this is only a superstructure created by media that does not have legs to go long distance.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @AaronB
  124. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @The Alarmist

    Anon from TN
    I strongly suspect that the Russians prefer to leave the honor of making yourself look really stupid to the US. Therefore, Russia would not do anything nearing the level of self-harm inflicted by the US elites.

  125. @utu

    Well, erm, yes. People do like winners, and dislike losers – that would seem pretty obvious. The Americans dropped two nukes* on Japan and the Japanese love them regardless. Moral considerations are second at best. Conversely, if central planning had been successful, instead of a dismal failure, I’m sure Balts would love Russians today, a few minor unpleasantries from the 1940s regardless.

    However, I certainly don’t consider myself guided by such considerations in my personal choices (more fool me). I strongly suspect liberalism will win out this century, and my own positions now will consign me to pariah status in my old age, even in Russia. Hopefully the liberalism that will win out will be more Pinkerian than SJW.

    * Needless to say, I am certainly not one of the people who care let alone condemn the US for dropping nukes on Japan.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  126. Seraphim says:

    The intra-Russian ‘discussions’ (between ‘real Russians’ and not-so real – half, quarter, x% -, between ‘sovoks’ and ‘liberals’) are quite hilarious (even more comic by their sanctimonious tone). Who is right? Hard to say. I would rather know who is wrong. Opposing ad hominem arguments to data supposed fake and heaping abuses on the head of your opponents is an indication that one has no real counter arguments and in fact tries to evade the substance of the problem.

  127. chris says:

    So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power.

    Your point brought this infamous picture to mind!

    • Replies: @chris
  128. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:

    Anon from TN
    Somehow in numerous statements in this thread, mostly boiling down to “mine is more Russian than yours”, the key issues were missed. I am not even talking about obvious trolls trying to denigrate Putin’s foreign policy feats. He achieved a lot more with a relatively weak hand than the US with a much stronger one, both in Syria and in Ukraine.
    Admittedly, Ukraine does not count: only Americans, who have no history and don’t know the history of other countries, could have stepped into that particular pile of s… Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports. At the beginning of the eighteens century Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes. Peter the Great decimated Swedes in the battle near Poltava. That was the end of Sweden as a great European power. Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire in WWI. Where is that Empire now? Then “independent” Ukraine supported Germans. Well, they lost WWI. Then Ukrainians served Hitler in WWII. USSR smeared Nazi Germany over he wall. Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union. Where is it now? So, if I were in the US or EU leadership, I’d make sure that Ukraine is not my friend, simply for the sake of self-preservation.
    Syria is a totally different story. The Empire, on behalf of Israel and Saudis, tried to break it up into a bunch of powerless Bantustans. The plan seemed to be close to bearing fruit until Putin threw a wrench into the works. With ridiculously small ground and air force he turned the tide of the war. The Empire was frustrated. Hence the hysterics.
    Anyway, IMHO Putin’s Russia has two major weaknesses. One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000. “Protected” appear to include even such notorious figures as Chubais (if you ask Russians, ~90% would say that oligarchs should be stripped of their wealth, tried, and imprisoned; but as many or more would say that Chubais should be publicly hanged). The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
    , @yurivku
  129. Jake says:

    “what we see is that western democracies are run by gangs of oligarchs and bureaucrats who have almost nothing in common with the people they are supposed to represent.”

    ABSOLUTELY TRUE!

  130. Robert Dunn says: • Website

    I’m like so totally sure the CIA will not be interfering with their election.

  131. Kiza says:
    @utu

    Just for a moment I will take you seriously, although you sometimes write truly silly stuff, and respond.

    Yes, the AngloZionist would prefer to turn and absorb the Russian and Chinese elite, but only as low subordinates. This is what they have been doing in other conquered countries – generating a mix of the new and compliant part of the old elite with a greater proportion of the new elite. The Russian neo-Liberals are ready and waiting for the job, looking down on their compatriots as cattle (the same word as goyim, what an amazing coincidence!?). Read what this Felix writes about the Russians. This gang turned Russia into killing fields in 1917 and will gladly do it again given half a chance by their foreign masters. The masters are underwriting the full-time writing of puppets such as Karlin. Karlin is the Russian Elliot Higgins, interpreting data without a faintest idea of solid data analysis, a paid full-time hack drawing the right conclusions for the empire. Perhaps he sees himself as a minister in the Russian puppet government after the successful regime change. Therefore, this group of regular trolls (about 10 nicks) on all Saker’s writings are aiming to be that future new Russian servant elite when Russia would be absorbed. They are truly the last thing that Russian people need.

    As I said above, I have seen it all before, it is deja vu all over again (Yogi Bear).

  132. Gerard2 says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country.

    To be fair, Karlin does speak English in a heavily russian accent, unlike that Americanised liberast dickhead Pozner. This suggests to me that in his time in America, Karlin always spoke Russian at home and probably made regular and lengthy trips to Russia.

    He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the “achievements” of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002. As for the undoubtedly russophobic and liberal garbage comments he occasionally makes, I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant…..in other words just trying to increase his profile…..which he is entitled to do.

  133. Gerard2 says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Another thing is that like in Soviet times there is clear lack of systematic approach toward power succession and lack of checks and balances which led to few times clear unfit personalities coming to power and worse ruining the state in the process with no mechanism of removal.

    This is just insulting garbage straight from the pages of Vedomosti. What “approach” towards power succession does there have to be? Why does it have to be assumed that if the country is not in a state of war, that there won’t be an entirely normally power succession? This issn’t America where idiots line up the next Trump daughter/Bush/Clinton/wife of Obama to be competing in 2020.

    “lacks of checks and balances” is liberast 5h column BS. Where does Putin enforce his will in policy , completely against the will of the 2 main political chambers or the majority of the Russian society? Russian life expectancy is up, Putin wants to increase the retirement age, Duma doesn’t want to legislate it, Russian public obviously not too keen to raise it, so guess what?….it hasn’t happened !
    In reality the Russian government caves into public pressure on infrastructure projects , releasing “persecuted” guilty criminals and general domestic policies…at an equal and maybe even more amount of times than most western countries.

  134. Pavlo says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports

    The examples you cite don’t support your thesis.

    Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes

    He spectacularly failed to bring the country with him.

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    Then Ukrainians served Hitler

    A minority of degenerates. The Ukrainians who brought ruin on Hitler were those on the other side.

    Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union

    The causal connection between this and the demise of the union is not demonstrated.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @AnonFromTN
    , @AP
  135. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.

    Look don’t speak about Russians it’s clear which nationality you are. And even you are still in Russia (which I doubt) it’t not for long. Such people as you are filling rows of Mashas Gessens and continue to pour their dirt from US/UK/Israel … Actually the sooner you’ll leave the better.

    As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.

    Just incredible. I guess if you saw any live Russian.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  136. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000.

    The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.

    It’s interesting to see like you, actually foreigners, despite having some Russian origin (you, Saker …), and especially clean foreigners making categorical statements about Russia’s life and policy.
    But ok, I’ll add some “chaff” here to your unbeatable statements.

    To your list should be added support of 5th column, it’s partly mentioned in your 1st point, but problem is much more complex and deeper. Not only get stolen money back and hang Chubais (which of course could be a big pleasure), but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It’s his way of life, he’s built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It’s useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he’ll try to keep system in it’s state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it’s a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it’s not a mafunctioning of a system, it’s a part of it.

    System absolutely indifferent to people it’s provided to guard. It’s even not thinking of long term its own survival – education and science, medicine, bith rate. It’s being concentrated only on high priority clear tasks like selfdefence and self-sufficency. Even latter has began to be developed in great scale only after sanctions (Thanx Obama & Co).

    So statements of Saker and others about people hating communists and faked Grudinin are fake and total misunderstanding of Russia (which BTW is not only Moscow).
    Who people really hate are oligarchs and the West (mainly US). All the negative to communists left in 1990. It’s true for most people not counting liberals (called hear as liberast for being in rhyme with pederast) and gays/LGBT. Both these minorities actulally mainly the same people, luckily.

    And Grudinin is not candidate of communist party – he is candidate from block of patriotic forces, which is much more and actually the ideas of that block being supported by many, I could have said even by majority, but unfortunately is’s not the case yet. If this candidate had equal rights in MSM, if the voutes were counted correctly there was a real chance to win.
    But it’s unlikely.

    And for stupid statement of Saker’s of Grudinin being a desired candidates for ZUS – let’s not forget that the West is being ruled by imbeciles. So even if they think so – let’s them to continue.
    BTW we also were thinking that there is no nobody worse than Killary Clinton. Do we think like that now ? :-)

    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

  137. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    BTW Andrei, just in case is a link to SNAGIT software, it’s powerful and handy, but of cource it’s up 2 you to try.

    https://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.html

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/SnagIt

    Here is an example of result pictures:

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig

    BTW when I just insert a link to picture it doesn’t seem to be immediately on screen. Probably there are some tags for that should be used?

    • Replies: @yurivku
  138. yurivku says:
    @yurivku

    trying to use [img] html tag
    ” ”

    I saw a picture on preview, but after publishing it’s disappered ! So the question still exists.
    I used construct like:
    [img src="https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig" alt="an image to be embedded"]
    with square brackets changed for angle brackets.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  139. polskijoe says:

    Okay I recognize the Russia has lots of problems.
    I wish you guys luck. And all of Europe luck.

    Putin is currupt and probably hordes lots of money (so do all oligarchs around the world).

    Yet he is the ‘best’ option you have.

    The world needs the nation to oppose what the US is doing, to what the West is doing.

    Russia will likely not be a superpower. Just a Eurasian power. Backed up by nukes for the world, which probably wont be used.

    Some of the demographics and some economy has improved. From second rate, you have become the 2nd or 3rd strongest military.

    Im gonna leave several questions:

    1)If the Russians approached average wealth of say Spain/Italians (individuals). Would the Russians stay in the country? What would that do to the mentality of the people?

    2)How many Putin types are in positions of power in Russia? Is he really alone?

    3)I dont know much about Medvedev or his circle. What do they want to do? Someone explain in a few sentence.

  140. @anonymous

    Great you told us what Putin must do. Certainly he can’t wait to implement your policy proposals.

  141. polskijoe says:
    @yurivku

    lol… we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.

    “You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality.”

    Its actually sad.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @yurivku
  142. polskijoe says:
    @utu

    Maybe some European leadesr might like to improve relations with Russia,

    but… (refering to elites): Anglo countries do not, Countries jammed between Germany and Russia dont. Sweden and Netherlands do not.

    I get the feeling that most of the Western establishment does not want to,
    or can not because of fear or pressure from CIA/US.

    Well you get those groups like Bilderberg, the less known Le Cercle, types who refuse too.

    You get the CFR, Brooking Institute, Chatham House who refuse too.

    They all want to dominate. Not see others as equal partners.

  143. yurivku says:
    @polskijoe

    “You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality.”

    We have a lot of experiences of that type of “ideas” the are mainly being representing by Russian Jews.
    Let’s go back for so called US experts on Russian matters. My lovely is Masha Gessen
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/masha-gessen-in-the-new-yorker-on-white-jurors-bias-against-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/?highlight=Gessen

    They usually are transitional Rossiyane, they are on the way to West, Russophobia is a main thing which they are going to sell in the West. Ok, one more Masha not a big deal, but I’m not gonnal silently listen it.
    This Felix guy just a light copy of her. Even if he was Russian I’d prefer not consider him a relative, but I’m sure he’s not.

    Speaking about Russian abortion problems now when in the West all that war, dirty politics, LGBT/faggotry/transgender stuff, criminals in power which while killing civilians a the same time are blaming us for that, it’s just high standard of hipocrisy.
    When Russian being insulted and humilated by ZUS, real Russians just getting ready to fight.
    I’m sure that no Russian man who currently being surrounded by enemies can speak that way Felix did.

  144. yurivku says:
    @anonymous

    Don’t trust Saker for a second. He is misleading. Russia and China, two petty colonies, always have sided with the racist criminal west, against Muslims.

    Ok, ok, just calm down.
    You did not say whom should we trust? ZUS? Please clear up this question.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  145. yurivku says:
    @polskijoe

    lol… we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.

    BTW we, Slavs, are different. We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
    Poland is main and most aggressive US ass-kisser on the East of Europe so of course we see all that and do our conclusions.

    Yes, most of so called “bratushkas” like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro … did cooperated with Nazy and/or now are doing that with NATO, so don’t address our Slavic origins, we are different and real brothers are those who wouldn’t betray and that, pity, certainly are not you. The only one left we can respect (with some limitations) is Serbia.
    Getting back to words of Alexander III – “Russia has only two allies – its army and navy”, this is still true.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @polskijoe
  146. Seraphim says:
    @Pavlo

    I must confess that I have difficulties to reconcile in my mind assertions like “Ukrainians served Hitler”, ‘Banderists’ were the collaborators of Hitler”, “Banderastan”, ‘Ukronazis’ etc with what Wikipedia tells us:
    “On 30 June 1941, with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, Bandera and the OUN-B declared an independent Ukrainian State. Some of the published proclamations of the formation of this state say that it would “work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation.” – as stated in the text of the “Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood”…
    In 1941 relations between Nazi Germany and the OUN-B had soured to the point where a Nazi document dated 25 November 1941 stated that “… the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated…”.[42] On 5 July, Bandera was transferred to Berlin. On 12 July, the prime minister of the newly formed Ukrainian National Government, Yaroslav Stetsko, was also arrested and taken to Berlin. Although released from custody on 14 July, both were required to stay in Berlin. On 15 September 1941 Bandera and leading OUN members were arrested by the Gestapo.
    In January 1942, Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp’s special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by an Reich Main Security Office official to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army.
    In September 1944 Bandera was released by [the German authorities] which hoped that he would incite the native populace to fight the advancing Soviet Army. With German consent Bandera set up headquarters in Berlin…

    “On 30 June 1941, Stetsko declared in Lviv the formation of a Ukrainian National Government which “will closely cooperate with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world” – as stated in the text of the “Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood” Gestapo and Abwehr officials protected Bandera followers, as both organizations intended to use them for their own purposes.
    On 5 July, OUN-B leader Bandera was placed under honorary arrest (Latin: custodia honesta) in Kraków, and transported to Berlin the next day. On 14 July he was released, but required to stay in Berlin. On 12 July 1941 he was joined in Berlin by his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko, whom the Germans had moved from Lviv after an unsuccessful attempt by unknown persons to assassinate him. During July–August both of them submitted dozens of proposals for cooperation to different Nazi institutions (OKW, RSHA etc.) and freely communicate with their followers. After the assassination of two key members of the Melnyk OUN, said to have been carried out by members of the OUN-B, Bandera and Stetsko were held in the central Berlin prison at Spandau from 15 September 1941 until January 1942, when they were transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp’s special barrack for high-profile political prisoners, Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by Otto Skorzeny to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army…

    “In September 1941, the Gestapo began registering known Ukrainian nationalists and from 1941 to 1943 over 80% of the UON-B leadership was arrested. The UON-M fared slightly better, but even their sycophancy failed to protect them from German disdain and the organisation was outlawed in 1942.
    Bandera’s family suffered too: his two brothers were killed by Polish prisoners in Auschwitz, another brother may have been executed by either the Gestapo or the NKVD (his fate is officially unknown), his father was executed by the Soviets for harbouring an UON fugitive and his sisters were exiled to a Siberian GULAG by the Soviet secret police”.

    Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko have been interned in German concentration camps like other ‘fascists’ supposedly stooges of Nazis (like the so-called Iron Guard from Romania) until August 1944 (the defection of Romania from the Nazi camp) and freed only when the Nazis realized that they were losing the war and thought that they can use them against the advance of the Red Army. Only later, the OUN-B was re-formed in 1946 under the sponsorship of MI6. The organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera’s organization, associated with Mykola Lebed, became more closely associated with the CIA…

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  147. @yurivku

    Just a quick note that the “patriot” Grudinin believes that the LDNR (population: 3 million; troops: 30,000) should resolve its issues with the Ukraine (population: 40 million; troops: 250,000) without Russian support.

    Though to be quite expected of someone with millions stashed away in foreign bank accounts (a proud tradition of Russian patriots).

    So, one of the cases where The Saker is actually spot on.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  148. Art Deco says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I’ll wager a number of vectors produce those metrics, one being that the more pervasive the sense of insecurity, the more people seek money as a sword and a shield. Another would be the breakdown in the culture at large of non-pecuniary sources of status. Another is ‘social desirability’ of equalitarian sentiments in certain cultures, as well as the acceptability of duplicity. (I don’t think the French respondents were being honest; they’re just being French, and you take them seriously but not literally).

  149. AP says:
    @yurivku

    We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.

    Soviets freeing Poland from Nazis is like a guy who frees a woman from a murderer only to enslave her in his basement for 40 years…and then demanding gratitude for saving her life.

  150. Pavlo says:
    @Seraphim

    That is what the Banderists were – but no relationship is without friction.

    And Stepan Andreyevich was a naughty little boy – couldn’t stop murdering rival Ukrainian nationalists, made things terribly untidy*. The Reich smacked him and sent him to his room until he was ready to behave himself.

    Wiki – in any language – should be taken with a grain of salt since any page of contemporary political importance is bound to have been monkeyed with by one side or the other. The Polish and Ukrainian language pages on Ukrainian nationalism make for an amusing contrast.

    *Taras Borovets appealed to Bandera and OUN-B to please oh please stop slaughtering his followers. Borovets’ tear-stained letter was ignored, but that didn’t stop him attending Bandera’s funeral, the miserable little bitch.

  151. yurivku says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Though to be quite expected of someone with millions stashed away in foreign bank accounts (a proud tradition of Russian patriots).

    Yes it’s a best tradition of our liberals to create their own or repeat created before lies on patriotic people.
    As he many times proved he has no billions nor millions on foreign bank accounts and seems like you should not blame him to be not poor. He did not buy football tem neither he bought a big boat.

    The only funny thing about this is that this lie was created by Putin’s team who’s liberals should be in opposition.
    That’s an old scheme to put a dirt in MSM, but not the rebuttal (ложки нашлись, но осадок остался).
    This is one more provement that relations of Putin with the 5th column is much more complex than Saker believes.

  152. @Gerard2

    Anatoly speaks English with a Russian accent and he has gone to Russia to live. So I value his thoughts far about Saker’s babblings.

    Did anybody take away your right to value one thing over another? In related news, I know one Uncle Misha in one of the villages near Moscow where some of our relatives live, he is 80+, worked all his life as a plumber, and knows about two words in English with a heavy Russian accent (come to think about it–he may know even 3 or 4 words)–I personally value his opinions on Russia above Karlin’s. I am sure your argumentation is impeccable.

  153. yurivku says:
    @AP

    I do not speak with Uks.

    Yes, most of so called “bratushkas” like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro …

    But here you reminded me (thanx) the main Slavic betrator, the most despicable – Ukraine.
    Sorry for forgetting, it’s my fault.

    • Replies: @AP
  154. @Gerard2

    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the “achievements” of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002.

    I cannot explain to you how much and on how many levels this statement of your is wrong, since Russian media were filled with thorough analysis of Georgia’s internal situation for a long long years. It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.

    I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant…..in other words just trying to increase his profile…..which he is entitled to do.

    You are missing the point completely here, sorry. The issue is not what Karlin does and what sort of sh.t he deals with. At issue here is the fact of some barely out of college guy with no serious education and with zero life-experiences trying to speak out on the matters in which he by definition has no even remote understanding and spreading a variety of sorts of BS. I guess his IQ fetish is partially explained by his desire to compensate for his utter lack of any relevant knowledge or skills. Make your choice, whom do you want to perform open heart surgery on yourself (God forbids you will need one)–a qualified surgeon or a plumber? I agree with your comment on increasing the profile, though–that is the name of the game for him.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Gerard2
  155. @AP

    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement? Roaming kanalizaciya ? Populations are in free fall onviously outcome of accepting 30 srebrennikov .Btw, I see you are a good friend of Poles, maybe you should give back Lviv and surroundings and Poland should returns those German lands gifted by so bad Russia back to Germany good friend of all Slavs.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @polskijoe
  156. yurivku says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I’m an American and proud of it.

    It’s interesting to know what are you proud of? Maby with all these achivements:

    https://russia-insider.com/en/if-america-wasnt-america-united-states-would-be-bombing-it/ri22615

    I think there is a time to be ashamed of this.

  157. AP says:
    @yurivku

    I looks like in your little mind, most Slavs are Slavic “betrayers.”

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  158. @yurivku

    There is a stream of personal insults here, that fails to adress any of the points I made. And implying that I may be a Jew is hillarious given my commenting history.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  159. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement?

    Poland is doing much better now, than in the 1980s.

    As is Russia.

    Ukraine’s Sovok elite bungled things, but there has been steady improvement since 2016.

    Populations are in free fall

    Poland had 37.96 million people in 1989 and 37.95 million in 2016. Such a freefall.

    Western Ukraine’s population has been stable – but eastern Sovoks have been disappearing due to lack of reproduction. That’s not a tragedy.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  160. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Há uma razão por qual ninguém seguiu Kerensky e sua brigada maçônica, enquanto os bolcheviques receberam muito apoio das pessoas, apesar do seu acidente ódio pela religião e sua russofobia.

    The Bolsheviks were not nationalists, but their anti-imperialism led them to defend Russia against Western imperialism, while ‘moderate’ liberals and socialists like Kerensky were concerned only to follow in the footsteps of the English and French, whom they had in charge of creatures. In the unlikely possibility that people like Kerensky, Miliukov and Terestchenko had remained in power, Russia would have been crushed still in 1918, and transformed into Franco-British protectorates, as was the case with most of the Ottoman empire (Turkey herself escaped from become a protectorate only because of Ataturk’s nationalist uprising).

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  161. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Pavlo

    Anon from TN
    It is heartening to know that there are sane people in Ukraine (i.e., if you live there, which I doubt). However, current Ukrainian authorities made the scum like Mazepa, Petlura, Bandera, and Shukhevych heroes of their Ukraine. The population does not protest, which means they are complicit in this defamation of Ukraine. It could have been a country, but failed miserably. RIP.

  162. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    Anon from TN
    You are raising many valid points. I agree that a lot of weaknesses of present-day Russia are parts of the rotten system Putin inherited (he did not build it, it was built by “liberasts” in the 1990s, under Yeltsin). And yes, the West in its unbelievable stupidity actually boosted Putin’s popularity and forced him to do things that are good for the country in the long run. Western elites degenerated since the collapse of the USSR, and the process now appears irreversible. I disagree with one point only: that Grudinin is any better.
    I’d also like to remind you that I am not in the same boat as Saker. He never lived in Russia, whereas I did until 1991. I am not sure whether he has Russian citizenship, but I do.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  163. @AP

    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine but Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing. I wonder what I will find if I start digging debt and GDP structure. We have different views on what is better. Judas always have different views from not Judas.

    • Agree: yurivku, Kiza
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @yurivku
    , @AP
  164. AaronB says:
    @utu

    Truly brilliant and insightful comment.

    Thank you.

  165. Art Deco says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you.

    If you weren’t interested, you wouldn’t keep posting. There must be some motive for dumping this sort of trash talk on every other thread. Why not come clean about it?

  166. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out that the apologist of Poland “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before, and if there were, did Poles consider that period successful.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    , @AP
    , @Anon 2
  167. @anon

    Actually the fact that even Turkey (active enemy of the Entente, population 10x smaller than Russian Empire’s, perhaps 50x less industrial output) did not become an Anglo-French protectorate would suggest to rational people that the likelihood of it happening to Russia was approximately zero, with or without the Bolsheviks.

    • Replies: @anon
  168. @Andrei Martyanov

    It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.

    No, the high school part is your invention.

    However, I did do it in 2008, when the consensus – including amongst most demographic professionals – was far more pessimistic.

    Three years ago, I predicted – going against 90%+ of “experts” – that the medium-term future of Russia’s demography is stagnation or small increase. In late 2009, I wrote that even under undemanding assumptions, “the population size will remain basically stagnant, going from 142mn to 143mn by 2023 before slowly slipping down to 138mn by 2050.” To give an example, the 2008 World Population Prospects of the UN Population Division predicted Russia’s population would fall to 132.3mn in 2025 and 116.1mn in 2050.

    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay, of course, but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite… well, let’s just say I’m not the one on whom it’s reflecting badly.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  169. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Well, I know your story and I agree with most of your points, but not with this one ;-)
    But I think your future certainly will be out of Russia. I’m not going to blame you, but it’s a fact. Quite a few of my schoolmates are now abroad, the best friends, matheticians, 20 years working in Mexico’s university. The are watchinng Russian tv And internet resources, will vote for Grudinin, but the are lost for country which is really bad.
    The are doing very well and it’s clear they couldn’t achive this here. It’s also.to blame Putin

  170. Che Guava says:
    @prusmc

    Bruce, sorry Caitlyn Jenner or Bradley, sorry Chelsea Manning for Prex? Then the U.S.A. will really be going somewhere, although where, I do not know.

  171. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich

    It was you who insulted all Russians at once, so I’m not begging a pardon.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  172. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    Anon from TN
    Just to explain something to you specifically. I left Russia (actually, USSR) in 1991 when it became crystal clear that the state totally abandoned biomedical research. So, I had a choice: remain in Russia and do something else that brings some money (I had a 6-year old daughter, and I believed that I have no right to keep her hungry), or remain in science, but move to the country where I will be paid for it enough, so nobody goes hungry. I chose science. Today I have more scientific papers and citations than pretty much any member of the Russian Academy of Sciences in my field. There is still no decent biomedical science in Russia. Purely bureaucratic projects like Skolkovo, an attempt to build a mountaintop without a mountain, are stillborn and do not inspire any confidence. If I return now, Russian science would gain nothing, but I would lose the ability to do what I am qualified for.
    The reason I am writing here is, like we used to say in the old times, “за державу обидно” (loose translation for non-Russian speakers “I feel hurt by the sad state of the country”). If you look at the papers in the best journals, there are lots of Russian (in broad sense) names on the author lists, but virtually none of them is now in Russia. Unlike masha gessens of the world, I am not selling lies, I am doing my professional job, which has nothing to do with politics.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  173. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The Treaty of Sevres had reduced what remained of Turkey to a vassal state of the Western powers. It just did not become the law of the land thanks to Ataturk.
    It must be remembered that Western imperialism had in fact reduced the Chinese empire, with a population much larger than that of Russia, as well as transformed India into a colony. Western imperialism can not be underestimated, and it can always count on convenient allies, often sought among the worst segments of the population, in the countries it intends to subdue.
    Moreover, if there is someone who can not be accused of ‘rational’ is the supposed ‘paladin of the people’ Alexander Kerensky.

  174. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I probably already answered. I understand you very well, I know many of such stories, one is about my friends both are Ph.Ds living with four childs in Mexico.

    They also doing very well in both scientific and money senses. And this is one of the most destroying achievements of liberal establishment, Putin’s one. I mean the brains leak loosing bright and patriotic people.

    So I don’t need to.look anywhere, I know that well and wish you all the best.

    By the way I guess when Americans will understand that it’s for them to change their country. Not for us.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  175. @yurivku

    You sound more like a Sovok, than a Russian to me. Stupidity, agression, inability to take criticism are all markers of Sovok mentality.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @polskijoe
  176. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.
    It’s really a thing which Slavs ( and Russians should be ahamed of )

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    , @AP
  177. @Anatoly Karlin

    No, the high school part is your invention.

    Same as your “predictions” which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, “predictions” not to mention a massive public discussion, from which you “extrapolated” your conclusions, which is to say–simply appropriated somebody’s forecasts and ideas on demography. Now, would you mind telling what age were you at 2008? As per demography “discussion” I did it once, I repeat it again–you were barely from middle-school when public debate on this issue started in earnest. Moreover, Maternity Capital program was initiated in 2006 which immediately generates not only warranted but irresistible question–what this:

    However, I did do it in 2008

    Has anything to do with 2006 and couple of years prior open discussion on Russia’s demography?

    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay

    That is revealing, isn’t it?

    but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite… well, let’s just say I’m not the one on whom it’s reflecting badly.

    Karlin, you are throwing a lot of invectives from a glass house of your well-documented flops in just about anything you are trying to predict or write about Russia and world at large. If you want me to demonstrate that, we may get busy with that, thankfully your ventures into the fields you have no idea are well documented here. I already reminded you about your writings on military issues, you geopolitical “analysis” is altogether a manifestation of militant ignorance and these are just a few things.

    including amongst most demographic professionals

    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West’s “professionals”, not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called “academe”. This almost brought the world to the brink of a world war III and already translated into the new and much more dangerous Cold War 2.0. You, obviously, being a product of US “humanities” madras, still do not understand that this whole system can not find its own ass in a brightly lit room with own two hands, not to speak–yet, you continue to parade your ignorance writing on subject you have no clue about. I will repeat again–you, Masha Gessen, Julia Ioffe, basically whole neo-con cabal are the berries of the same field. As I stated–you should find employment at Echo Matsy or any rag with ties to, whoever you “heroes” are–Sobchak, Prosvirnin, Navalny or whatever collection of freaks who will pay you for you pseudo-intellectual rubbish. You will be called out, though, as it is being done here.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  178. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out the timing: I left long before Putin, even before Yeltsin. To be fair to Putin we have to remember that he got the country after two shameless traitors, Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Russia was in a lot worse shape than it is now. It 1998 Moscow had a dismal look of total neglect. In 2015 it looked like a proud capital of a mighty country.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @yurivku
  179. @Dmitry

    As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions.

    You can read some of those facepalm “analyses” here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    It is one of many, it’s just that this one was so outlandish that it forced me to first start a series of posts in my blog on this issue and eventually people convinced me to write a book–should be out in September (if lucky–in August).

    The charts and ‘statistics’ are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers’ ranting in (I admit) impressive English.

    Not in Karlin’s “settings”, since he has a very peculiar way of “handling” information, which doesn’t suite him–such as arguing (if you have time–you can find it) with data and war correlates of Russia’s Imperial General Staff, since, obviously, those numbers do not support his “views”.

    If he runs as a politician

    I would pay to see that in Russia. LOL. He has, however, a good shot at it in the US.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Dmitry
  180. Art Deco says:

    This almost brought the world to the brink of a world war III and already translated into the new and much more dangerous Cold War 2.0. Y

    Other people in the dayroom want to use the computer. And you’re not finished with that trivet you were making in art therapy.

  181. @yurivku

    I used construct like:

    I know it is OT and hope Saker forgives us for this small deviation but let me try. F.e. I go to Yahoo images of Natalie Wood and open her image, right click and copy image location and then directly paste into the post.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  182. peterAUS says:
    @yurivku

    ..but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It’s his way of life, he’s built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It’s useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he’ll try to keep system in it’s state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it’s a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it’s not a mafunctioning of a system, it’s a part of it.

    with

    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

    Spot on.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  183. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Look, why we again got to this point? I said many times, he saved country, but it was not for free, country payed and still does for that.
    I think his time is over. BTW it’s safe time to go – no attempts to punish him will be attempted, but his future if again elected is vague.
    Now the everything in Moscow, that time I use phone being to lazy.to.switch on desktop having alot of typos as a result. Sorry

  184. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Just f#ck off. Your home not in Russia, follow the clear signs.which I’ve supplied.
    Probably you didn’t hear names of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, Gessen will be enough for you.

    • Replies: @AP
  185. @Andrei Martyanov

    Same as your “predictions” which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, “predictions” not to mention a massive public discussion

    And here is Reality.

    Tired of plonking down on that puddle over and over again?

    … which is to say–simply appropriated somebody’s forecasts and ideas on demography.

    Whose?

    He’d sure be glad to know I plagiarized all this from him, whoever he is: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/faces-of-the-future/

    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West’s “professionals”, not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called “academe”.

    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  186. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I tried to embed pictures from different sources and it seems like blog refuses to show pictures from Russian sites. When I used Gessen image from Unz it worked ;-)
    Thank you

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  187. yurivku says:
    @peterAUS

    What you tried to say? Did not get it. Yes there are demands for changes and moreover from opposite sides of political spectrum. And there is many of those who are trying to keep status quo.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  188. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    One more thing -’you said you gonna vote for Putin in US? I think it’s of no sence whoever you’ll vote for , they will count your voice for Putin. So may be long drive is not necessary ;-)

  189. Ron Unz says:
    @yurivku

    I tried to embed pictures from different sources and it seems like blog refuses to show pictures from Russian sites. When I used Gessen image from Unz it worked ;-)
    Thank you

    Actually, the image-embedding system I built is *extremely* simple and shouldn’t be difficult to use.

    All you need to do is provide a single URL that ends in an image-indicator-suffix such as png, jpg, jpeg, gif, or ico and make sure the URL is surrounded by whitespace or line-separators. The website then automatically embeds the URL within an image-tag, that loads it from its external server.

    But you need to provide the actual *image* URL, rather than just some general webpage URL that just contains that image.

  190. yurivku says:

    Thank you Ron!
    Now it’s clear I did put correct link to an image residin on Yandex.picture resource, but this resource renames files skipping the jpg extension.
    Will try with different hosting.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  191. @Anatoly Karlin

    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.

    Yes, including being non-permanent members of Russia Security Council, Commanding the only Carrier Battle Group of Russian Navy among many other interesting things, just to give you a hint, wink-wink. You, however, should concentrate on what you are qualified to do–write reviews for latest gadgets, games etc. As per “mysteries of universe”, unlike you I never express my opinions on issues of which I have no a good understanding, let alone grasp–I think this is just the matter of culture. If I need to get to the “mysteries of universe” I usually read Dr. Michio Kaku or Brian Greene and do not try to express my opinions of quantum mechanics. I do, however, resort the right on my part to express my opinions, and even pass judgements, on the issues which are directly related to my former professional and academic background, as you say from the second rate Soviet military academy. Even if it is a third-rate, it is still on several orders of magnitude more knowledge in the field than you ever will have, after all–even in the third rate military academies they taught Theory of Operations, fundamentals of geopolitics and other things. ;-)

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Kiza
  192. @yurivku

    Thank you Ron!

    You should also thank me for giving you (and many here) the pleasure to observe a stunning timeless beauty of Natalie Wood (Natalya Nikolaevna Zacharchenko), LOL. I kid, I kid. :-))

    • Replies: @yurivku
  193. @AnonFromTN

    Lol. They will consider it successful anyway. Just for the honor of being part of the West even if sleeping near lavatory.

    • LOL: yurivku
    • Replies: @yurivku
  194. peterAUS says:
    @yurivku

    What you tried to say? Did not get it.

    with

    Just f#ck off.Your home not in Russia, follow the clear signs.which I’ve supplied.

    just feels…..not good.
    Anyway….

    Where you are not correct is

    ….no attempts to punish him will be attempted,…

    Putin (and people around him) would be insane if believed that.
    Of course that the new clique would blame the previous one for all problems of society. And, almost definitely bring them to…ahm…”justice” etc. (kangaroo courts and such).
    In fact, should Putin and his team lose power they just know they’ll be brought up to some “International Court of Justice” and ….well, we know how it works.
    That’s why he/they will never give power easily. And I don’t blame them. Whatever it takes to stay there will be taken. And rightfully so.

    And, curious: what makes you believe that the next team would be better, corruption etc. wise?
    Czars->Communists->post Communists….teams/regimes….even systems change….but that element, apparently, stays and does it well.
    Why would you expect any difference should Putin and his team get replaced by, say, that “Gru” guy and his team?

    • Replies: @yurivku
  195. @yurivku

    Exactly. I read their opinions often in blogs discussing Soviet past. As if deficit of some produce in stores justified destruction of own country, loss of status obtained through great sacrifice by their grandfather’s and death of millions. I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988. So, what I noticed there was no anti Soviet bazaar back then neither in Dnepropetrovsk or Tashkent, but when I first arrived Moscow and visited Arbat there it was. People yelling at each other political discussions and when I was back to ussr from China in summer of 1989 it was far worse including what was happening in other parts of the country, parliament presidential election and total mess. For me looks like the country center capital the most prosperous part was where the rot took place even among common folk. The top was completely rotten by then. I read some opinion about moving capital. Well, Peter did it and it gave some momentum for 100 years. Then Bolsheviks moved again and again there was momentum. Odd.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @yurivku
  196. polskijoe says:
    @yurivku

    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

    You are assuming all Poles are the same. Polish government antiRussian stance is stupid for sure,
    but Poland is not some aggressive beast. The army is tiny. We dont invade countries.

    You seem to have some paranoia that Poles are out to get you. And that Poles were allies of Nazis?
    More Russians fought with Nazis, than Poles did. How do you answer that?

    Poland never officially allied with Nazis and we fought them from 39-45.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @yurivku
  197. polskijoe says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Populations are in free fall?
    This is happening all Slavic countries. Check the birthrates vs death rates. Low Fertility rates.

    Poland and Ukraine are different. Generally speaking Poland gained after leaving USSR influence.
    Ukraine went the opposite direction.

    During Commie times Poland was not doing well in many areas. Only military and some industry.
    Now its more peaceful.

    Dont take this as antiRussian, because I really am not.

  198. polskijoe says:
    @Felix Keverich

    How come its usually strong Soviets supporters who dislike other Slavs
    more than average Russian does?

    Is it because of Jewish mentality involved with Bolsheviks and Commies?

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  199. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine

    As I said, Ukraine’s population freefall is due to eastern Sovoks failing to reproduce. There has been no freefall in the western parts of the country.

    Since you are a proud Sovok yourself, you are essentially just making fun of your own people.

    For example, Donetsk oblast had 5.3 million people in 1991, and 4.3 million people in 2013 (before the war). Loss of 1 milli0n or almost 20% of Sovoks.

    Lviv oblast had a little under 2.8 million people in 1991, 2.5 million in 2013. About 100,000 of these missing were Russians and Jews who left Lviv after independence. So loss of 200,000 or 7%.

    Not good, but, at least, better than in Russia. There were about 120 million ethnic Russians in Russia in 1989, 111 million in 2010 – loss of 9%. And it is probably lower now.

    Transcarpathia oblast has had a population increase since 1989. 1.252 million in 1989, 1.256 million in 2014.

    Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing

    Poland’s manufacturing collapsed in late 80s and had improved significantly since then. For example Poland was making about 400,000 automobiles per year in the early 1980s, almost 700,000 in 2016.

  200. AP says:
    @yurivku

    He lives there. You fled. And you try to teach about Russians.

  201. AP says:
    @yurivku

    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.

    Let’s look at a list of peoples whom yurivku considers to be “traitors to Slavs” (the ones who joined NATO or are trying to join); numbers include diasporas:

    Poles: 57 million
    Ukrainians: 48 million
    Czechs: 12 million
    Bulgarians: 10 million
    Croats: 8 million
    Slovaks: 7 million
    Bosniaks: 4 million
    Slovenes: 2.5 million
    Macedonians: 2 million
    Montenegrins: .5 million

    151 million Slavs who are “traitors to Slavs”

    That’s more than the 130 million Russians. Maybe Russians are the traitors?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  202. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988.

    So, guy who never lived in Russia, and left Soviet space almost 30 years ago, thinks he knows something about Russia.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  203. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before

    True of most of Europe when one doesn’t include non-European migrants. So?

    Yurivku claimed population “freefall.” There has been none.

  204. AP says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    “Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.”

    Yes, including being non-permanent members of Russia Security Council, Commanding the only Carrier Battle Group of Russian Navy among many other interesting things,

    And Donald McHenry, former US ambassador to the UN, graduated from Southern Illinois University.

    Which doesn’t make it more than a second rate university (I’m being generous).

    You were not a non-permanent member of Russia Security Council. Per your linkedin, you were a mid-level or junior naval officer who graduated from a second rate naval academy, and fled west almost 30 years ago and who since that time has worked as a tutor and who now works in graphics design.

    You provide an interesting and valuable perspective that is unique here (how fortunate unz.com has been, to collect an actual Soviet military officer and to provide a forum for his POV), and you are certainly not dumb, but your narcissism is kinda funny because it has little basis. In your posts you have claimed that people educated in the West are clueless, young urban Russians are clueless, people with backgrounds in humanities are clueless, etc. That leaves you – a graduate from a second-tier naval academy with a mediocre career – as having a relative monopoly on expertise. Suure.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  205. AP says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    You can read some of those facepalm “analyses” here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    That’s where twinkie, more of an expert than you, demolished you during your discussion with him.

  206. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @polskijoe

    Anon from TN
    You have a point here. In WWII there were Lithuanian, Latvian, Estonian, and Ukrainian Waffen SS divisions, but no Polish ones. However, Poles did serve Hitler individually, many as volunteers (like Tusk’s grandfather). What’s more, Hitler’s rabid anti-Semitism was in line with the worldview of many Poles (maybe just a bit less so than with the views of Balts and Ukrainians). At least, there are extremely uncomplimentary tales about the behavior of Poles in German-occupied Warsaw during the uprising in Jewish ghetto in 1943.

    • Replies: @utu
  207. @polskijoe

    I’m not sure I understand what you’re talking about. There are many problems with the Russian people, but excessive hatred of Poland isn’t one of them. lol As a matter of fact the overwhelming sentiment that Sovok types feel towards people of Eastern Europe is not hate, but betrayal.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  208. @AP

    Let me educate you. Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades. Also, the eastern part ny all means was Russia given to Ukraine just like crimea. Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city. I am not so sure about how western Ukraine was doing demographically. But they did spoil the life of all Ukraine and contaminated everything. Tell about tail waging the dog.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    , @AP
  209. @AP

    As I said Dnepropetrovsk was Russian city at the time and in Tashkent I lived in military camp /voennyj gorodok where all but 2 families were Russian from different parts of Russia. We all studied in Russian schools , were imbued with same Russian history and culture and almost all of my friends were Russians. When I talk to relatives we actually share most of views and it is natural. I hear now Dnepropetrovsk was thoroughly ukranazied.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @yurivku
    , @yurivku
  210. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @AP

    Anon from TN
    To the best of my knowledge, there are just under 38 million Poles, not 57 million. Claimed number of Ukrainians is even more fantastic. There were 52 million people living in Ukrainian SSR in 1991. Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine. Of course, there are 5-7 million Ukrainian gastarbeiters in several countries (mostly in Russia and Poland), so the number of citizens is probably 27-31 million, but that’s nowhere near 48 million you claimed. No wonder that Ukrainian authorities are afraid to conduct a census for many years – they know that the results would be shocking. Not to mention that before counting Transcarpathia as Ukraine you should talk to the residents there, especially Rusyns and those with Hungarian and Romanian passports. If I were you, I’d also ask how many millions of residents of Galichina and Volhynia got Polish Card (Karta Polaka), and how this reflects their “patriotism” and pride in the achievements of so-called “revolution of dignity”.
    Don’t have time to check the rest of your numbers. But these clear inaccuracies make them equally suspicious.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Art Deco
    , @AP
    , @polskijoe
  211. AP says:
    @Pavlo

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    This is a silly myth propagated in some Orthodox circles. Thalerhof had about 30,000 internees, people accused of spying for the enemy in time of war, about 3,000 of whom died, most from disease. Two of my great-grandparents were sent there, both survived. It was no proto-Auschwitz. It wasn’t even close to what the Brits did to the Boers – 26,000 dead in the British camps.

    By 1910 the ratio of nationalists/Habsburg loyalists to Russophiles in Galicia was about at least 5:1, probably more like 9:1. Some Austrian units with Russophiles deserted (one of my relatives led a group of these POWs, a few hundred, who fought for Kolchak in Siberia) but there were no major pro-Russian uprisings or groups in western Ukraine; in contrast, the nationalist Western Ukrainian People’s Republic managed to mobilize about 100,000 troops.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  212. chris says:
    @chris


    “So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power.“

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  213. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades

    Another Sovok myth – western Ukrainians were parasites who lived off eastern Ukraine.

    Now that the “host” is gone western Ukraine must have gotten worse. Donbas can’t feed it anymore!

    Instead, it is doing better than any time since 1991. Lviv wages are now equal to those of poor Russian cities such as Volgograd. So we know that Sovoks were holding Lviv back.

    Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city.

    In 1989, according to Soviet census, Dnipropetrovsk was 65% Ukrainian and 31% Russian. It was not another Donetsk (48% Russian, 46% Ukrainian).

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  214. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    To the best of my knowledge, there are just under 38 million Poles, not 57 million.

    Your knowledge is flawed because you aren’t counting Poles outside Poland. 10 million in USA, 3 million in Germany, 1 million in Canada, etc.

    I wrote “numbers include diasporas.”

    But your ignorance about everything having to do with eastern Europe has been well-established.

    Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine

    LOL. Did you read this brilliant analysis on Russia Insider?

    Based on this measure Russia must have had a large population boom in the last 2000s:

    Not to mention that before counting Transcarpathia as Ukraine you should talk to the residents there

    I know some.

    You do realize Transcarpathia votes for Ukrainian nationalists, not as strongly as Galicia, but as strongly as central Ukraine. In the last pre-Revolutionary national elections (2012 parliamentary) Transcarpathia voted 65% for the three main nationalist parties, 31% for Yanukovich and 5% for the Communists:

    Results by oblast here

    About 1% of its population identify as Rusyns rather than as Ukrainians. These 10,000 or so people serve as a basis for some weird propaganda about anti-Ukrainian separatism in that region.

    You are an eternal source of pro-Russian nonsense about Ukraine.

    Good job demonstrating this about yourself yet again.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  215. @Faker

    How did you come by the moniker of faker?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  216. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    As I said Dnepropetrovsk was Russian city at the time

    Sovok doesn’t know about Dnipropetrovsk.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnipro#Demographics

    1989 – 62.5% Ukrainian, 31% Russian.

    Perhaps you lived there in 1887? It had a different name then.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  217. @AP

    … western Ukrainians were parasites who lived off eastern Ukraine.

    This is partially true, though. Ukraine was a modest net recipient of transfers in the USSR, and I suspect most of those went to the rural west.

    And after 1991 the South-East in general and Donbass in particular accounted for a disproportionate share of foreign currency earnings.

    What is true is the more modest statement that west Ukraine can exist okay without Donbass.

    Lviv wages are now equal to those of poor Russian cities such as Volgograd

    Doesn’t sound very plausible – and it isn’t.

    Volgograd – 31,000 rubles (http://investorschool.ru/srednyaya-zarplata-v-rossii-po-regionam-v-2017-godu) = $550

    Lvov oblast – let’s call it 6,500 grivna (https://index.minfin.com.ua/labour/salary/average/) = $250

    • Replies: @AP
  218. Art Deco says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine.

    It’s amazing what people imbibe willingly from the Wacky World of Websites.

  219. @yurivku

    Oh no, siding against Muslims.

    That’s bad because … non-Muslims are typically treated so well when Muslims take power?

    • Replies: @yurivku
  220. Cyrano says:
    @chris

    How dare you smear such a touching moment of “solidarity”. Some more eloquent speaker like Obama might have called such event – “The audacity of mendacity”.

    • Replies: @chris
  221. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine.

    This figure is funnier when one considers per capita income. Ukraine’s total GDP PPP was 352.885 billion in 2016. If there are only 22 million people in Ukraine, this means Ukraine’s per capita GDPP PPP in 2016 was $16,000!

    Anon from TN just made Ukrainians wealthier than Chinese, and close to Belarussians.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Gerard2
  222. Pavlo says:
    @AP

    This is also the Wehraboo line on the Reich lagers – I suppose it wouldn’t be complete without a bit of Uniate bile.

    nationalist Western Ukrainian People’s Republic managed to mobilize about 100,000 troops

    Military efforts by a statelet established in a void are not an uprising, so the contrast is not applicable.

    I shan’t remind you of how the ZUNR experiment ended.

    • Replies: @AP
  223. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    there are extremely uncomplimentary tales about the behavior of Poles in German-occupied Warsaw during the uprising in Jewish ghetto in 1943

    I have read quite a lot about this period but I haven’t heard the “uncomplimentary tales”. I thought that worst you can claim is indifference but accusation of Schadenfreude are hard too prove. Certainly Poles did not congregate and made picnics to watch the Ghetto pacified as some Israeli do watching Gaza bombed or when some Americans congregate near a prison where an execution is about to be taken place and chanting “fry him up” or “get more juice.”

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  224. @AP

    Ekaterinoslav aka later Depropetrovsk -Russian city. There even was house where Alexander Sergeevich Pushkin stayed during his stay there on Karl Marx blvd. There also was house built by Potemkin for Ekaterina II at Shevchenko park. You also might say that Odessa, Harkov or Donetsk are Ukrainian cities. Keep dreaming. Even Lvov is not Ukranian city. I am sure you will live to see ukraine going the way Zhech Pospolitaya end of 18th century.

    • Replies: @AP
  225. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    And after 1991 the South-East in general and Donbass in particular accounted for a disproportionate share of foreign currency earnings.

    Yes, but how much was pocketed and how much was given to Lviv? Lviv was very poor in the 1990s and early 2000s.

    “Lviv wages are now equal to those of poor Russian cities such as Volgograd”

    Doesn’t sound very plausible – and it isn’t.

    Volgograd – 31,000 rubles (http://investorschool.ru/srednyaya-zarplata-v-rossii-po-regionam-v-2017-godu) = $550

    Lvov oblast – let’s call it 6,500 grivna (https://index.minfin.com.ua/labour/salary/average/) = $250

    You may be right. I read this:

    https://www.epravda.com.ua/news/2018/02/5/633754/

    Average salaries in Lviv at about $350, third highest in Ukraine.

    Googled this:

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Volgograd&country2=Russia&city2=Moscow

    Volgograd at $330.

    I now see that the Volgograd total was after taxes, so probably a little more, and numbeo places Lviv lower overall.

  226. Kiza says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Andrei, everything you wrote about Karlin can be summarised by comparing him with Elliot Higgins of Bellingcat, who used to be a lingerie salesman before discovering data analysis. I am not saying that Karlin had any such profession before – personally I estimate a man based on his sane words and deeds, not based on resume/CV/LinkedIn. The way this character Karlin draws conclusions from data which is not supportive belongs to the products of US, definitely not the more rigorous European, education. Please note that Elliot Higgins never had any British data analysys related education, which never bothered his supporters.

    The strange thing for me is also that some of Karlin supporters here, such as Felix, suffer from exactly the same malady – the way these people torture logic of dedication, inference, reasoning and resolution truly belongs to gutter and not a serious debate. But it is consistent with the rulebook of trolls: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Clear_Thinking/Informal_Fallacies/Tricks/tricks.html

  227. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    What does exactly mean ‘fleeing from the army/navy’, in active service one may surmise?

    • Replies: @AP
  228. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @AP

    Anon from TN
    As I expected, this “expert” has no comment about people who got Hungarian and Romanian passports or “Karta Polaka” in the last few years. I leave it to you to search Hungarian, Polish, and Romanian government sites to get the numbers. They do tell a story, but not the one you want to hear. You sound like a true “sovok”: if the facts don’t fit your theory, damn the facts. No wonder Ukraine is exactly where it is now: with defenders like that, who needs enemies?
    As to 22-24 million people and matching bread + flour consumption, here are just a few websites with the info, none on the domains .ru or .su

    https://frontnews.eu/news/en/8445/The-population-of-Ukraine-can-be-24-million-people-a-deputy

    http://world.24-my.info/production-of-bread-in-ukraine-for-16-years-has-fallen-by-half/

    https://www.sott.net/article/358816-Secrets-of-the-dead-souls-of-Ukraines-population

    As to Ukrainian GDP, the figures are from official government statistics, the same that usually claim no casualties on the Ukrainian side in Donbass, and report thousands of Russian troops and tanks there, which miraculously nobody managed to photograph since 2014 (even though people somehow photograph meteorites, lightning strikes, and other events that last a second or less). As Douglas Adams wrote in one of his novels, “if you believe that, you’d believe anything”.

    • Replies: @AP
  229. Art Deco says:
    @Kiza

    The way this character Karlin draws conclusions from data which is not supportive belongs to the products of US, definitely not the more rigorous European, education.

    Somehow, you rigorously educated people can never seem to outproduce us (not to mention your long history of falling for communist and fascist parties). There isn’t much of a market over here for scientific literature translated from German or Russian or Italian, either. Perhaps we’re hopelessly parochial or maybe we just don’t need to read your derivative sh!t.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  230. AP says:
    @Anonymous

    I didn’t accuse him of desertion. He fled the ex-USSR, presumably after he was no longer a naval officer.

  231. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Ekaterinoslav aka later Depropetrovsk -Russian city

    Populated 2/3 by Ukrainians, 1/3 by Russians when you lived there, at a time when you called it a “Russian city.”

    You didn’t know that, which tells us how much you know in general, about Ukraine.

    You also might say that Odessa, Harkov or Donetsk are Ukrainian cities.

    Odessa – 61% Ukrainian, 31% Russian. Ukrainian nationalists defeated Russian nationalists in street clashes a couple of years ago, remember? Some “Russian city.”

    Historically, Odessa had Jews as the largest group in the 1850′s, with Little Russians/Ukrainians in second place and Russians in third place. Late 19th/early 20th century Russians were in first place, but by 1930s Jews were once again in first place, Ukrainians and Russians basically tied. After World War II there were more Ukrainians than Russians in Odessa.

    Kharkiv – 53% Ukrainian, 43% Russian.

    Old center of Sloboda Ukraine, mostly Ukrainian from 17th century until mid to late 19th century when Russian settlers moved in to work in factories. More Ukrainians than Russians by the 1920s, though.

    Donetsk – 48% Russian, 46% Ukrainian. So, Russian.

    Even Lvov is not Ukranian city.

    Sure, in your world a city that is 88% populated by Ukrainians is not Ukrainian. Good to know.

    Bottom line is that you never lived in Russia. I’ve even lived in Russia. You lived in Ukraine (which, as we see, you know nothing about), and later in Uzbekistan. And you pretend to know something about Russia.

  232. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @utu

    Anon from TN
    The history is nuanced; there were almost no purely black or purely white forces. Particularly Polish history as it relates to Jews. Some units of Polish Home Army supplied ghetto with weapons, others were quite anti-Semitic. Quite a few Jews were murdered by Poles when they returned after the war. Here is one of many discussions of just how nuanced the history of Jews in Poland is:

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2010/06/24/jews-poles-nazis-terrible-history/

    Not to mention that history was distorted by lies from all sides, each pursuing its own objectives without scruples.

    Mind you, I am not justifying what Israel is doing in Gaza, or in West Bank, for that matter. What they do most resembles Hitler’s actions. Unfortunately, atrocities were committed not only by Hitler (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam… the list is long).

    • Replies: @utu
    , @yurivku
  233. AP says:
    @Pavlo

    This is also the Wehraboo line on the Reich lagers – I suppose it wouldn’t be complete without a bit of Uniate bile

    I don’t know what a “Wehraboo” is.

    Most of the people interred at Talerhof were Uniates.

    “nationalist Western Ukrainian People’s Republic managed to mobilize about 100,000 troops”

    Military efforts by a statelet established in a void are not an uprising, so the contrast is not applicable.

    In a similar void zero pro-Russian military units managed to be organized.

    I shan’t remind you of how the ZUNR experiment ended

    Held on for eight months, was ultimately defeated by a country 8 times its size, lavishly equipped by the French:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War#The_war

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  234. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    As I expected, this “expert” has no comment about people who got Hungarian and Romanian passports or “Karta Polaka” in the last few year

    You provided no numbers.

    You sound like a true “sovok”: if the facts don’t fit your theory, damn the facts.

    You provided no facts, merely bizarre claims.

    No wonder Ukraine is exactly where it is now:

    Doing better than 2 years ago, and improving.

    As to 22-24 million people and matching bread + flour consumption, here are just a few websites with the info, none on the domains .ru or .su

    An interview with an opposition politician (politicians are always honest, right?), a tabloid, and website the reposts Russia Today articles such as “CDC official who handled Zika and Ebola outbreaks mysteriously missing”.

    As somebody else said about you – “It’s amazing what people imbibe willingly from the Wacky World of Websites..”

    You claim that if grain consumption declined 50%, population must have declined 50%. Who knows if it’s true about the decline in consumption, but if so, note that Russia’s grain consumption declined 36% from 1992 to 1999. This would mean, in your world, that in 1999 Russia actually had only 95 million people!

    Not to worry – based on grain consumption increase, Russia’s population increased in 11 years from 1999 to 2010 to 130 million!

    The things ones learns from the expert about Russia and Ukraine, Anon from TN.

    As to Ukrainian GDP, the figures are from official government statistics

    That’s right, those sneaky Ukrainians tricked the World Bank and everyone else into accepting their figures. They got away with claiming a GDP that was about double what it really is.

    Anon from TN has his eye on the ball :-)

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  235. polskijoe says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Okay. Understandable explaination.
    Btw. I never mentioned hate btw. Most Russians dont hate Poles, like most Poles dont hate Russians.

    There might be distrust, or anger about some points of history. Actually hatred is smaller minority.

    • Replies: @AP
  236. polskijoe says:
    @AnonFromTN

    That guys numbers are questionable.

    I see Polish ancestry, the Ukraine figures are probably too big,
    Russian figures range widely.

    Didnt see a distinction between ancestry, ethnicity, vs citizenship.

    In Ukraine there is a significant portion of “Russians or Russian-Ukrainians” (in some way).

    Wiki claims there are 55 million Polish speakers (which I find unlikely). Vast majority of Polish origin in USA dont speak Polish. Probably the same with Canada and Latin America.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonFromTN
  237. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @plonialmoni

    He plays league of legends for SKT1.

  238. AP says:
    @polskijoe

    That guys numbers are questionable.

    Not “my” numbers:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs#Population

    the Ukraine figures are probably too big

    Take your problem to the Canadian, American, Russian, etc. censuses.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  239. AP says:
    @polskijoe

    Most Russians don’t care about Poles, and rarely think about them. They see Poland as a small, not very significant nation. To the extent that there is an opinion, it is negative, but overall the attitude is apathy, not antipathy.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  240. Vidi says:
    @Faker

    But three words for you: global reserve currency. Good luck overcoming that.

    The dollar’s status as the global reserve currency depends heavily on oil being sold only for dollars. Most countries have to accumulate a large amount of USD in order to buy that oil, and that reinforces the dollar’s status as the world’s reserve currency. However, three of the top oil countries (Venezuela, Iran, Russia) are ready to trade in Yuan. If this practice spreads, the dollar’s days as the top reserve currency will be numbered.

    In fact China and Russia love them the green back. They cannot get enough of it.

    China’s dollar reserves have gone from over $3 trillion down to $1 trillion.

    What currency does Russia exchange its valuable natural resources against again? Oh that’s right…

    Soon, Russia will start accepting Yuan for its oil.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  241. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Ok, thank you. So let me present to you photo of the islands Marietas ;-)

    you can see it on where the boat points.

    here they are on map:

    I dived there last year when visited my friend in Mexico, who left Russia in 1995 and working in Mexican university. So it’s not off-topic ;-).

  242. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Exactly. I read their opinions often in blogs discussing Soviet past. As if deficit of some produce in stores justified destruction of own country, loss of status obtained through great sacrifice by their grandfather’s and death of millions.

    Bastards. You know probably a proverb:
    1 khokhol (ukranian) is a traitor
    2 khokhols is a guerrilla detachment
    3 khokhols is guerrilla detachment with a traitor

    And those descendants of Mazepa, Petliura and Bandera are proving that.

    The top was completely rotten by then.

    Top is still rotten with few exceptions. The fish getting rotten from the head.

    As for Uks it’s disgusting and sad look, but they can’t beleive that we don’t need them. They finally tore the umbilical cord and this will never change. The goal is to save Russians in UA who remember who they are (Donbass and partly SouthEast), other could feel themselves free.
    AP jumping trying to bite and insult, but I see small vicious dog which even not deserves to be kicked.

    • Replies: @AP
  243. yurivku says:
    @polskijoe

    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

    Sure, Ukranians also Slavs. And some Slavs were with Hitler. So what?

    You are assuming all Poles are the same. Polish government antiRussian stance is stupid for sure,
    but Poland is not some aggressive beast.

    Not I’m not, but a drop of honey in barell of shit won’t change much. I see the facts and you did everything to be hated. It’s not us to blame.

    The army is tiny. We dont invade countries.

    Just because you are too weak, in history you did always when you could.

    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

    No and it was not change the fact that Russian and Polish have almost nothing in common not to count history and language. The latter you switched to latin despite it’s looks ugly just to break the link with us. Ok, you did break, why do you a crying now? Go your way and wait when some Iskander will come to your US antimissile base. It was your choice get the consequences with dignity.

    • Troll: polskijoe
  244. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    uncomplimentary tales about the behavior of Poles in German-occupied Warsaw during the uprising in Jewish ghetto in 1943

    I would like to hear about these specific uncomplimentary tales. What Poled did or did not do during Jewish Ghetto uprising that was uncomplimentary?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  245. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Exactly. They even like the smell of freedom out of there. And many of them got the right to clean it up.

  246. yurivku says:
    @peterAUS

    just feels…..not good.
    Anyway….

    Up to you. Enemy detected. I’m not gonna be polite with people who are insulting me and my country.
    I wish I could express my feelings the other more physical way.
    If for Uks they are not deserved to be answered, this moron pretends to be Russian.
    I’m sure he is Jew, Uk or Polish. BTW his name proves that and time of his writings tells that he’s probably resides accross Atlantics.

    Why would you expect any difference should Putin and his team get replaced by, say, that “Gru” guy and his team?

    Just according my understanding of situation. Of course I can be mistaken. What are your reasons when you are making some important decisions?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  247. Pavlo says:
    @AP

    I don’t know what a “Wehraboo” is.

    A fish has no word for water either.

    Most of the people interred at Talerhof were Uniates.

    The Uniate bile I refer to is yours.

    In a similar void zero pro-Russian military units managed to be organized.

    Lemko Republic. Crushed by Polish thuggery.

    Held on for eight months, was ultimately defeated by a country 8 times its size, lavishly equipped by the French:

    That wasn’t quite the end of the story, was it?

    • Replies: @AP
  248. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Sergei it’s thankless job to explain something to Uk, which not corresponds with his ideology.
    And this ideology in simple is – everybody is our debtor, ’cause we are unique.
    Without a donor, as any parasite, they are nothing, currently they are struggling for the body of next donor.
    If not agree with them – you’ll get portion of dirt like “sovok” etc. Leave them to clean their lavatories.

    BTW AP seems to work in Russia. I know quite some Uks who working in Russia, but still pour to her the shit from the bottom of their hearts.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  249. @Anatoly Karlin

    * Needless to say, I am certainly not one of the people who care let alone condemn the US for dropping nukes on Japan.

    Holy shit. You really are a total creep.

    Of course, I already knew that, but still, the sheer extent of it is breathtaking at times nonetheless.

    I wonder whether this is effortless on your part because you have such a great natural talent for assholery? Or is this something that you have to work at steadily?

    • Agree: yurivku
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  250. @AP

    Incidentally, I agree with you on the flour conspiracy theory.

    I suppose it is a supreme irony that the top result for a search of my name on rt.com gives the following:

    Anatoly Karlin, a Russian writer at America’s Unz Review who focusses on demographics, claims there are only three explanations for the apparent contradiction. “Either Ukraine is experiencing a baby-boom far bigger than anywhere else in eastern Europe, which seems unlikely given [the current] economic circumstances [or] Ukraine is also fiddling its fertility statistics [or] this theory is nonsense, [and is a] mirror image of ‘dying Russian bear’ trope.”

  251. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Unfortunately, atrocities were committed not only by Hitler (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam… the list is long).

    good reading is here

    https://russia-insider.com/en/if-america-wasnt-america-united-states-would-be-bombing-it/ri22615

  252. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    And in case you or someone don’t know that history about standing Ukranian nation with help of first concentrating camp in Europe. This way Austria-Hungary filtered eastern fields of Imperia (western parts of current Ukraine) from Russians during WW1. After filtering the pure Uks were created. Those who then created UPA/OUN (УПА/ОУН) and collaborated with Hitler. Those killers which even for Nazy were too cruel.

    in Russian:

    http://wikiredia.ru/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%84

    in English:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalerhof_internment_camp

    • Replies: @AP
  253. TT says:
    @Quartermaster

    Russia is declining. Not because of Putin’s non-existent neoliberalism, but because it is at war and does not have the economic resources to wage that war. Add in lack of necessity for that war, and you get the same sort of rubbish that killed the Soviet Union, and the end of Putin’s Russia will be the same as the Soviet Union’s.

    Mamamia, what cracks are you smoking?

    Russia hasn’t been so strong in history than now in every fronts. Does Putin or Russia has a choice to not go on defensive war with the most Nazist FUKUS Nato can’t wait to pound on it and feast its vast wealth, rape it hard like when SU collapse?

    I haven’t seen someone as patient as Putin who all out to favour US Nato by calling these jackals “partners” when they are massacre innocents everywhere incl Russians in Syria war & Africa business, sanction Russia, instigate border wars and demonized him everywhere. Didn’t US make open threats for Russians to pay price….partners, it make me feel sick.

    But Putin juz want to win the game at end, so he is willing to play the eunuch, to be humiliated repeatedly. A KGB elite with superb military that can wage projected war like US has no balls, you muz be kidding.

    When country is in existential threat, a responsible leader needs to prioritize domestic vs international policies. Without a safe peaceful country from external subjugation threat, don’t bother to talk of better economic or demoncrapcy.

    China Xi did an excellent job, juz built the great wall to fence out West media sabotaging, built your economy resilience, rally your people with a realistic dream, extend his terms unlimited as long country need his leadership while not yet free from existential threat of CONTAINMENT.

    Putin should take a leaf from Xi, go it the manly way. Russia is for Russians, not for West msm.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  254. polskijoe says:
    @AP

    Was aware it was likely from somewhere else. So I use your numbers as “your provided numbers from elsewhere”. poor language on my part I guess.

    I guess they make sense. for all parties involved.

  255. TT says:
    @RadicalCenter

    deter and contain China to Asia

    Then the west should first leave Asia alone. Uncle Sham has hundreds of bases in Asia stirring war rt at China door steps, how many base China has in the world esp at West?

    Why US EU leaders like UK, France, Canada, Germany…Africa, Asia, Latin America, ME,… all are so keen to visit China for biz deals? Juz don’t visit…then no need containment, each will enjoy own sphere of influence and prosperity.

    How you want a country with actual economy larger than US or EU to have no influence in the world when its No.1 trade partner for everyone?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  256. TT says:
    @Kiza

    AngloZionist elite would never accept the Russian or the Chinese elite as equals and this is the main reason that a global alliance of the powerful against the powerless will never happen, despite being predicted by so many authors.

    I beg to differ. It always happen, already happened, they probably regularly sitting together sipping wine & discussing how to squander more money together from each other countries. Greed has no border and nationality. The one who can help you make money is your most honored god.

    But the Anglozionist decided they have better chance this time to take all Russia oligarchs wealth too. Like mafias, dog eat dog.

    In essence, what Saker and you are saying is that Putin has done fantastic things for Russia but he is a man of the past who has reached his personal limits and Russia is in a need of a new leader to take her to the next stage. But there is no such on the horizon – that is the key issue of the forthcoming Russian election.

    If today Putin stepped down or lost election to go holiday enjoy his well deserved stash $B, they will cry…a good leader required long extensive experience to run a complex Russia with many power play. If he is that bad as some said Putin can easily make more money by selling whole Russia to US, and migrate off.

    Russia at present is simply not in luxury for a game of 5yrs On-Job-Training for new untested Pres. Another Yeltsin will ruin Russia to no turning back. Look at how EU all the new inexperienced leaders messing up. Pray Putin can find a successor to be groomed over time.

    Only US can sustain whatever nonsense Potus, bcos its the biggest evil empire.

  257. Kiza says:
    @Art Deco

    It is ironic that you just perfectly exemplified my point about the lack of rigorous education.

    Firstly, it was not the main point then a little supportive side point to my comparison between Karlin and Elliot Higgins.

    Secondly, what does the volume of production have to do with quality of education? One could establish its direct relationship to availability of capital or material resources, but quality of education may only have a tertiary level effect on volume perhaps through development of technology.

    Thirdly, it is not easy to establish causation between quality of education and quality of science, especially in US which mostly imports its scientists and engineers. Notwithstanding that a strong correlation between level of maths in education and the scientific output has been established.

    Now, most importantly, either you have not even learned the meaning of the word rigorous in your US education or you dispute what is fairly well established opinion in educational circles – that European education is the most rigorous in the world.

    FYI, rigorous education does not mean “high quality education” as you seem to equate. Rigorous education is the one which teaches you to carefully and independently (be always sceptical about propaganda) evaluate the facts in front of you, then apply strict principles of logic and, finally, come up with a thought out conclusion/solution/decision. In other words, rigorous education teaches you to think rigorously instead of your brain jumping all over the place like a monkey’s.

    You prove my point by jumping to conclusions about what I wrote, which is exactly what Higgins and these “Russian liberal” commenters do here most of the time:
    1) you latched onto my side-point
    2) you equated rigorous with quality education and then implied causality between your quaility of education and as far as production output (or are you going to pop-up some graphs which attempts to correlate those two and then declare this to be the causation, as this dill Karlin does?)

    If the above is not sufficiently clear to you, let me state with maximum possible generalisation that the US people do have a tendency to jump to conclusions which suit them and to believe propaganda more than the Europeans. My hypothesis is that US people may get quality education but they do not appear to learn to think on sound principles.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  258. @Kiza

    Please note that Elliot Higgins never had any British data analysys related education, which never bothered his supporters.

    Good that you mentioned this Higgins guy in relation to this circus–Bellingcat. I would never have made a connection. Fact is, Bellingcat, staffed with cashier machines operators and merchandisers, is in many respect a telling symptom of the Western “expertise” in just about anything–a Warholian World we live in, in which everyone has their 15 minutes of fame. As long as they stick to narrative–it doesn’t matter who they are and what loads of BS they peddle. I am considering writing a couple of pieces on gastroenterology, and why not? ;-) I once knew the guy who was a surgeon specializing in intestinal and stomach problems, so, I am absolutely positive I will qualify as an author on that issue.

  259. AP says:
    @yurivku

    As for Uks it’s disgusting and sad look, but they can’t beleive that we don’t need them.

    They wish more than anything for you to stop needing them.

  260. AP says:
    @Pavlo

    I don’t know what a “Wehraboo” is.

    A fish has no word for water either

    LOL. I was once told that not noticing white privilege is proof that I have it.

    In a similar void zero pro-Russian military units managed to be organized.

    Lemko Republic. Crushed by Polish thuggery.

    Did it actually organize any military units willing to fight for this cause? If so, number of soldiers was probably in the hundreds, a fraction of the 100,000 ZUNR managed to mobilize.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  261. AP says:
    @yurivku

    30,000 interred (wiki says 20,000) for alleged collaboration with an enemy during war-time, 3,000 of them died. Out of a population of 2.5 million.

    How many Russians did the Soviet state punish for collaboration? It’s proof in your world that Russians were naturally pro-Nazi but were prevented by the Soviet state from joining their brothers?

  262. Ivan K. says: • Website
    @Philip Owen

    That’s the same Lord Kelvin who proclaimed “There is nothing new to be discovered in physics” except more precise measurements of what is known, and that heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.

    It is often better to proceed from experience than from statistics.

    • Replies: @Ivan K.
    , @Philip Owen
  263. Ivan K. says: • Website
    @Ivan K.

    Pardon, “There is nothing new to be discovered in physics” is a statement from Albert Michelson of the Michelson-Morley fame. The second claim is truly what Kelvin believed.

  264. @Sergey Krieger

    In Saratov, a 30 square metre flat which costs 5 million roubles to buy costs 10,000 roubles a month to rent. That is across the city, not just the centre. Renting is a very good deal compared to buying even at a subsidized 6.5%. Russia is not Moscow.

    I do meet single young Russians on modest wages who think that they should be able to have their own flat immediately they find a job. This was never possible in the UK and it was never possible in Russian except in exceptional cases like new Monotowns. Kommunikali were important for most people I have met who left their parents before marriage, just as bedsits (a room in a shared house) were for British people of my generation. Modern young Brits expect to share a rented house.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @Andrei Martyanov
  265. @Ivan K.

    :-) Well, I often quote personal experience as an illustration when commenting on Anatoly’s posts. Without ground knowledge, the statistics can easily be misinterpreted. I speak as a sometime professional statistics gatherer (Business to business market research). When I rounded to 2 significant figures (even so far too accurate) clients used to get upset.

    • Replies: @Ivan K.
  266. Anon 2 says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Actually, Poland’s zero population growth is better than the population
    declines most EU countries are experiencing due to “below replacement”
    fertility rates. For example, Germany is losing about 200-250,000 ethnic
    Germans a year (presumably they are being replaced by Muslim migrants).

  267. Art Deco says:
    @Kiza

    Concision is a virtue you don’t have. Betwixt and between all your hand waving, you’ve avoided two realities, both of which are subject to observation and measurement:

    1. Your ‘rigorous’ education is not generating human capital up to our standards.

    2. You cannot from citation patterns (see the Institute for Scientific Information’s work) demonstrate that American scientists as a class are dependent on European scientists as a class. On science faculties in this country, European journals (produced by gouging commercial publishers) are considered repositories of second-rate literature.

    3. For all your rigorous education, your political cultures range from unimpressive to risible, with an exception here or there.

    Perform better, Ms. Eurosnot, and we colonials might be more impressed with your rigorous education.

  268. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @polskijoe

    Anon from TN
    Of course his numbers are BS: he is a Ukie. Ukies fall into two categories: sane ones and mad primeval nationalists (they call themselves “svidomye”, which now became a swearword in Russia and Eastern Ukraine). He/she/it is in the last category. 80% of what mad Ukies say is BS, the remaining 20% is truth twisted beyond recognition. The best way to deal with them in the media is to ignore them completely (I am guilty of not always following my own advice), whereas when met in person they should be dealt with in the same way as mad dogs. Poles, of all people, know that.
    You are likely right about the Poles in the US (don’t know anything about the Poles in Canada or Latin America). I was in quite a few Polish stores in the US (Polish idea of food is pretty much the same as that of Russians, Ukrainians, and Germans), including a huge Polish supermarket in Chicago, and found that very few Poles actually speak Polish. Most are like me (I am not Polish, but I was born in Lvov (Lwow)): they know about a hundred words, some very polite, some very impolite.
    The distinction between nationality and citizenship is particularly important in Ukraine. It used to be an extremely heterogeneous country, where the majority speaks Russian and some Ukrainian, ~25-30% speaks Ukrainian and some Russian (these are mostly villagers), some (largely in Transcarpathian region) speak mostly Hungarian or Romanian, etc. By Ukrainian I mean literary Ukrainian and several Western Ukrainian dialects (I know first-hand that they are very different, as I speak and read literary Ukrainian and speak the dialect used in Lvov area, where I lived for the first 6 years of my life). If Ukrainian governments (all of them, not only the current one) cared about the country, rather than about lining their pockets, they would have made several languages official (like Switzerland, Singapore, or Belgium), and generally they would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them. Too late now: they ran what could have been a country into the ground. Being half-Ukrainian I do resent that.
    Wiki is hardly a reliable source of info: anybody can edit their entries, and there is no quality control.

    • Replies: @AP
  269. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @utu

    Anon from TN
    I read in a few sources that when Germans burned Jewish ghetto block by block, some Poles hid escaping Jews (which was very brave: by German rules it was punishable by death), whereas others handed them over to Germans. In my experience of running my lab for 20+ years and hiring people from various countries from four different continents, there are no bad or good nations or races. In every nation/race some people are bad, some good, some are heroes, some are cowards, some are smart and some are dumb, etc. Also, in my experience the people who have no personal achievements to be proud of are those who take pride in belonging to a particular nation, race, or religion. So, in my book any nationalist, racist, or religious zealot is a loser and should be considered trash.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @yurivku
  270. @AP

    “Our nation is dying out slower than your nation.”

    Not an encouraging boast.

    I pray for all Slavs, and all Europeans, to have many more children.

  271. Avery says:
    @AnonFromTN

    { In my experience of running my lab for 20+ years and hiring people from various countries from four different continents, there are no bad or good nations or races.}

    Sure there are.

    I am guessing you ran your lab in US: if that’s the case, then your experience is not valid, because people who immigrate to America mostly want to live and let live.
    They mostly leave the old world, old cultures behind.

    But there definitely are bad nations, meaning people in those nations.
    There definitely are bad cultures.
    Not everyone in the nation or culture, of course.
    But super-majorities or majorities in those nations are.

    I agree though that there are no bad races as such (as in Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoliod races).

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  272. Anon 2 says:
    @AP

    Overall, that’s probably true, except those Russians that are stationed
    in the Kaliningrad Oblast’ as well as those who participate in the military
    exercises in Belarus near the Polish border. Plus the presence of the
    American troops in Poland helps to focus the Russian mind a bit more.
    But overall Russia is its own empire, and is focused on itself. Poland
    belongs to a different empire, the EU, and is focused primarily on Germany,
    France, Britain, U.S., and the V4 countries. On the whole there is very little
    travel from Poland to Russia. Russia is seen as a country in slow decline,
    the decline that began after Russia arguably reached its peak in the 1890s.

  273. @RadicalCenter

    Russia future is dim because Putin can’t stay inside his own borders and leave his neighbors alone. Until he gets out of Ukraine (and that includes Crimea) he is going to keep his country on a collision course with oblivion.

    Obama supported ISIS. Indeed, he created it. The recent set to where Wagner had its @** handed to it, is on Russia’s head. Don’t attack our people, you don’t die. Simple as that.

  274. @jimbojones

    You’re not at all observant. So far, no one who was a credible threat to Putin’s continuation in power has survived or stayed free. Your “logic” is tortured, at best.

  275. @TT

    I don’t smoke anything. You’re on something pretty powerful, however. Either that or your one of the most misinformed people around. It’s really hard to tell.

  276. peterAUS says:
    @yurivku

    Just according my understanding of situation.

    Maybe…just maybe…your understanding is lacking certain depth.

    What are your reasons when you are making some important decisions?

    Haha…you serious?
    Don’t you think it’s rather personal question?
    Let’s stick to the issue at hand. Putin or no Putin (which is actually impossible) for a change in Russia.

    My take: does not matter who is on top there. The core system will always be the same.
    That’s why there is still a brain drain, or middle class drain, from Russia. And it will continue.
    Ah, yes, and the money too.

    I mean, look at discussions, even articles on this site: the most fervent advocates of Russia are people who do NOT live there.
    The sheer…….weirdness? …of that boggles the mind.

    No wonder it’s hard to take them seriously.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  277. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Avery

    Anon from TN
    One of your points is valid: I do run my lab in the US, and there is certain level of self-selection among people who want to come to the US and work here. Even Ukies are on average a lot more human-like here (although I know at least one exception). I am not qualified to judge certain nations and religions. E.g., can’t say anything about Muslims, never had one in my lab, maybe because when I see a woman with her face covered, I don’t want to see her or her husband ever again. My point is that person’s gender, nationality, race, religion or lack thereof has no predictive value: a particular person could be good or bad, smart or dumb, industrious or lazy, good-natured or nasty, etc. My best (the smartest and the most productive) post-doc was a Chinese guy, second best a white guy from Eastern Ukraine, best graduate student was a white American girl, second best a Chinese girl, my best tech was a girl from Cameroon, etc. I had my fair share of failures (dumb, lazy, or a combination of these admirable qualities) of both genders and all colors. I also teach 12-25 graduate students per year for 15 years, where I can mostly gauge their intelligence. These much wider statistics tell me that gender, color, or nationality (there I have no idea who believes in what gods, or doesn’t believe in any) of a student never predicts who is going to do well on the exam. So my experience teaches me to judge people individually, not in groups.

  278. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Of course his numbers are BS: he is a Ukie

    My numbers are accurate. You on the other hand, claimed there are 22 million people in Ukraine :-)

    It’s the same stupid argument people used about Russia becoming depopulated, based on grain consumption.

    mad primeval nationalists

    I’m not any kind of nationalist, not least a “mad primeval” one. To a Russian nationalist, any Ukrainian who does not consider himself to be a Russian is a “nationalist.” Because he doesn’t believe the Russian nationalist fairytale.

    I speak and read literary Ukrainian and speak the dialect used in Lvov area, where I lived for the first 6 years of my life

    LOL, living somewhere the first 6 years makes you a lifelong speaker.

    If Ukrainian governments (all of them, not only the current one) cared about the country, rather than about lining their pockets, they would have made several languages official (like Switzerland, Singapore, or Belgium)

    Or Latvia?

    You do realize that Belgium is a mess from the perspective of nationality.

    It is great that Ukraine has lost Donbas and Crimea, becoming more monocultural. It’s why Putin is encouraging Donbas back in.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @EugeneGur
  279. Pavlo says:
    @AP

    LOL. I was once told that not noticing white privilege is proof that I have it.

    Pish. As a Ukrainian you are a nigger like me – whichever racist cracka said that, I hope you schooled them appropriately.

    Did it actually organize any military units willing to fight for this cause?

    Briefly.

    If so, number of soldiers was probably in the hundreds, a fraction of the 100,000 ZUNR managed to mobilize.

    Far fewer Carpathian Rusyns than Galicians. No foreign backing to speak of. Combine this with a Czech-like ability to realistically assess their position and willingness to bow to the inevitable. Not heroic, but more respectable than Petliura (talk big, under-deliver, sell out your allies, lose anyway, get shot by by a vengeful Shtetler)

    The original point was that Ukrainians and related nationalities in the Habsburg domains were not conspicuously loyal to their overlords – not really anything to do with the ZUNR but I suppose one cannot begrudge you for seizing a chance to reminisce about your favourite country.

  280. @yurivku

    Boat? I haven’t noticed a boat yet ;)

  281. peterAUS says:
    @AP

    It’s why Putin is encouraging Donbas back in.

    He is?
    The master’s 4th dimension chess move or something closer to Earth?

    My impression is that Donbas is being left to own devices, more or less. Especially re self-defense.
    Just an impression.
    The fact is that Ukraine is reinforcing the line around it, with (re)organization of Armed Forces.

    The situation feels….fluid… and scenarios are hard to predict there.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @AP
    , @EugeneGur
  282. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @peterAUS

    Anon from TN
    As much as I hate to agree with that AP thing, he/she/it is likely right on this. My impression is that Putin wants to use Donbass as a lever to change Ukraine. The great majority of Russian population believes that the people of Donbass proved their worth and deserve open support, either the right to join Russia, or at least official recognition of their republics. The same majority believes that the rest of Ukraine, which keeps silent while ideological Nazis, along with non-ideological thieves and war criminals, rule their country, deserves exactly what’s coming to it. Realistically, the only force that can prevent the corpse of Ukraine being dismembered by vultures (including Poland, Hungary, and even Romania) is Russia. Putin does not want to give these vultures anything, so he is likely to emerge in the end as a defender of Ukrainian territorial integrity. In this he won’t have much support from Russian populace, as too many people in Russia now want Ukraine to suffer the fate it brought upon itself. People think like humans, whereas Putin thinks like a geopolitical chess player. Personally, on this I agree with the people, not with Putin. But I acknowledge that he has a knack of being right in the end. Have you noticed that Ukraine fatigue is already visible in the West: Ukraine disappeared from MSM, just like Darfur, little girl Bana, and Aleppo hospitals before it. Today mentioning this monumental failure in MSM is considered as impolite as farting in church. Enthusiastic not so long ago EU and IMF are coming up with all sorts of excuses for refusing Ukraine credit, while before they gave this bankrupt entity money like there is no tomorrow. History resembles the mills of God: it grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly fine.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @AP
  283. @Jonathan Revusky

    Great sovcuck tell – whining about the US atomic bombing of Japan, merging as it does this great trinity:

    Ignorance – Previous fire bombings killed more Japanese than the two atomic bombs, and an invasion would have killed an order of magnitude more.

    Cuckoldry – Japan was at war with the USSR.

    Deranged, bloodthirsty Russophobia – 100,000′s more Red Army soldiers would have died invading Japan.

    And of course all tightly wrapped up in supercilious moralization.

    Some folks are beyond hope, but to everyone else – don’t be a sovcuck.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    , @Jon0815
  284. Gerard2 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Well this is interesing….Martyanov, The Saker, Nina Byzantina, the Kremlin stooge lot, Glossy….all of them deep russophiles ( giving the Saker a break for this appalling article), all appear to have terribly bad social-network relation with Anatoly Karlin and view his “pro-Russia” credentials with contempt. Could they all be wrong ?

    Don’t know

    • Agree: Glossy
    • Replies: @AP
    , @Glossy
  285. @AnonFromTN

    The same majority believes that the rest of Ukraine, which keeps silent while ideological Nazis, along with non-ideological thieves and war criminals, rule their country, deserves exactly what’s coming to it.

    Just a couple of days ago a Russian anti-ATO activist was found hanged in a prison in Dnepropetrovsk; it soon emerged that she had been deported from Crimea for overstaying her visa, despite the obvious case for political asylum.

    (Meanwhile, just the other day, the Russian Federation decided to re-allow entry to 200,000 Tajiks who had been barred for previous immigration violations).

    Considering the “rewards” the Russian Federation regularly deals out to its supporters – and the excuses for it generated by its even sicker apologists – the apathy is quite understandable. The Russian Federation in its current form “deserves exactly” to be beaten and humiliated, mercilessly.

  286. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    That’s right, those sneaky Ukrainians tricked the World Bank and everyone else into accepting their figures. They got away with claiming a GDP that was about double what it really is.

    Anon from TN has his eye on the ball

    hahaha! Considering that the Orange revolution was fixed on the same premise you dumb retard…this wouldn’t be at all suprising. Yanukovich clearly won in 2004 you fucked in the head idiot. The Donbass, as with most of the Russian areas of Ukraine…are also the most populous, Soros controlled groups had for years been deliberately underestimating the Donbass population and inflating the sparse western areas of Ukraine. This then lead to moronic claims of 110% turnout for Yanukovich in Donetsk, you prick.

    The World Bank/IMF whatever get away with giving Ukraine loans for being a parasite country, even though giving loans to a country in a state of war is actually against their rules….perfectly plausible they would also fix the numbers for Ukraine’s prennially crippled, failing economy you dipshit.

  287. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    This figure is funnier when one considers per capita income. Ukraine’s total GDP PPP was 352.885 billion in 2016. If there are only 22 million people in Ukraine, this means Ukraine’s per capita GDPP PPP in 2016 was $16,000!

    Anon from TN just made Ukrainians wealthier than Chinese, and close to Belarussians

    That just means that both the world bank are fixing the figures ( they aren’t audited numbers , but the words, of the perennially useless,corrupt and dishonest Ukrainian authorities you dumb shitbag) AND GDP from Russian remittances and investments into Ukraine and gas/oil transit fees are much bigger than recorded you moronic attention-whore twat. As of now, GDP from Russian remittances and gas/oil transit is officially stated at the 10% mark, in reality it’s closer to the 25% mark, with another 20% made up out of thin air by the ukronazis. That pretty much explains everything. That and Ukraine being the most unequal country in the world …clearly the most oligarchised you dumb fucktard…..which can mean it having a 16trillion dollar economy but still being a people plagued by poverty.

    No surprise seeing as Ukraine is a part of Russia, currently relying on “support” from spamtroll cunt, pig-raping failed UPA Nazi cunt relatives

  288. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Anon from TN
    Matter of fact, that’s one of my points: in this the policies of Putin and Co do not reflect the prevailing feelings in Russia. He gets credit for other things, which he partially spends on unpopular actions of the authorities.

  289. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Well this is interesing….Martyanov, The Saker, Nina Byzantina, the Kremlin stooge lot, Glossy….all of them deep russophiles ( giving the Saker a break for this appalling article),

    None of them living in Russia.

  290. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Just a couple of days ago a Russian anti-ATO activist was found hanged in a prison in Dnepropetrovsk; it soon emerged that she had been deported from Crimea for overstaying her visa, despite the obvious case for political asylum.

    (Meanwhile, just the other day, the Russian Federation decided to re-allow entry to 200,000 Tajiks who had been barred for previous immigration violations).

    Epic and disgusting.

    Even before Donbas, people in Moscow were complaining about how much easier it was for Armenians to come to Russia than it was for ethnic Russians from places like Tadjikistan.

  291. AP says:
    @peterAUS

    It’s why Putin is encouraging Donbas back in.

    He is?
    The master’s 4th dimension chess move or something closer to Earth?

    It’s not that complicated. Donbas was the anchor preventing Ukraine from moving definitively towards the West all these years. It was also the most corrupt and troublesome region in Ukraine (center of organized crime) and has the worst social indicators (lowest birth rate, highest HIV rate, etc.)

    Sticking this region back in Ukraine would:

    1. Once again result in Ukraine being a divided nation.
    2. Leave Ukraine with a place that is a demographic black hole.
    3. Make Ukraine pay for the war that dragged on, thanks to Russian aide.

    Also, keep on mind that the Russian plan is for Donbas to join Ukraine on Russian terms: it would be autonomous, with veto powers over national policy.

    It is the same strategy that Russia used to cripple Poland in the 18th century, before Poland was absorbed:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targowica_Confederation

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  292. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Anon from TN
    It is funny that you just answered the question of Gerard2 (comment 293). I am sure you did not mean that, but you showed your true colors beyond reasonable doubt.

    • Agree: yurivku
  293. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The same majority believes that the rest of Ukraine, which keeps silent while ideological Nazis, along with non-ideological thieves and war criminals, rule their country, deserves exactly what’s coming to it

    Economic recovery and improvement in living standards.

    Let me guess, Russian Nationalist: in your world it is always 2015 in Ukraine.

    EU and IMF are coming up with all sorts of excuses for refusing Ukraine credit

    And Poroshenko is now confident enough due to economic improvement that he is willing to avoid anti-corruption reforms because Ukraine can get by with delaying the IMF money.

    • Replies: @likbez
  294. peterAUS says:
    @AP

    Well…be that as it may, the signals that Ukraine wants Donbas back using any means necessary (armed conflict, in fact) are strong.

    So, something does not compute there.

    You are aware that in all your comments (and they are good) the element of armed forces, armed conflict and such are carefully……omitted?

    You’ve been presenting a well informed and documented perception of reality there from an Ukrainian regime point of view..but….lacking the “armed” element.
    Lack of related expertise, or something else. Not a question, of course.

    So…interesting spot on Earth that is.

    • Replies: @AP
  295. Gerard2 says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I cannot explain to you how much and on how many levels this statement of your is wrong, since Russian media were filled with thorough analysis of Georgia’s internal situation for a long long years. It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.

    Ok, you could be right…but even if he is plagiarizing it……he’s still bringing facts to the western blogosphere audience who would otherwise be critically uninformed

  296. Dmitry says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    You can read some of those facepalm “analyses” here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    It is one of many, it’s just that this one was so outlandish that it forced me to first start a series of posts in my blog on this issue and eventually people convinced me to write a book–should be out in September (if lucky–in August).

    Not in Karlin’s “settings”, since he has a very peculiar way of “handling” information, which doesn’t suite him–such as arguing (if you have time–you can find it) with data and war correlates of Russia’s Imperial General Staff, since, obviously, those numbers do not support his “views”.

    Sure, but he is not building bridge, or calculating artillery trajectories. As a blogger – if he posts the chart from the Economist, this chart can be unreliable and the conclusion he draws from it might be as eccentric. But reality is that it is posted as something to discuss, and with a total free speech in the comments section (my post has never been deleted), which is attracting people with every view to say whether they disagree.

    Compare Anatoly Karlin to the similar topic writers like Julia Ioffe. She has no comments section, and no engagement (writing back) with anyone she disagrees. Whereas in Karlin, we have debate between all different views, and he engages with readers in open minded way. So in such a blog, the more provocative views or even making mistakes are fine, as anyone is free to disagree and it is published on the comments. I will say he is good at blogging and engagement, even if I don’t agree with most (even if I disagreed with it all).

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  297. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    Soviets freeing Poland from Nazis is like a guy who frees a woman from a murderer only to enslave her in his basement for 40 years…and then demanding gratitude for saving her life

    .

    Taking your retarded, attention-whore comment, literally…… she would have had to have already been in that basement before that murderer got there, then had this sinking rotting, collapsing basement restored,upgraded and increased by 1/6th of it’s original size, free of charge, no interest, no debts,…..then had her go back for consultations and pay for further work by this “enslaver” for 10 years continuously after her “enslavement”. Oh, and prior to the attempted murder the woman would have been some kamikaze, manic depressive suicidal nutjob constantly trying to kill herself for 200 years ……

    Poland at the end of the 80′s was about 1/3rd pro-Communist, 1/3rd who weren’t bothered either way and 1/3rd anti-soviet you dumb prick.This “enslavement” is simply the fantasy of a moronic cretin son/grandson of some UPA cowardly scumbag American…..further amplified by the dramatic increase in population and life expectancy for 30 years after 1945 you dumb POS. What’s more, Poland was solidly leftist for 10 years after Communism, with many of the former ruling elite involved in key governing positions.

    Plus it’s not only about Russia saving Poland from extinction ( a n extinction that would have been deserved, at least at elite level) after World War 2 , the only periods in it’s time when Poland hasn’t been at war, or preparing for war has only been when under Russian control.

  298. AP says:
    @peterAUS

    Well…be that as it may, the signals that Ukraine wants Donbas back using any means necessary (armed conflict, in fact) are strong.

    Who knows what the elite is really thinking. Bringing back Donbas is popular (unfortunately) so the government makes a show of it.

    You are aware that in all your comments (and they are good) the element of armed forces, armed conflict and such are carefully……omitted?

    I’m not a military expert and for this reason don’t discuss such things in detail. I can say that there has been dramatic improvement in number of soldiers, usability of equipment, etc. but not much more.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  299. @Anatoly Karlin

    Japan was at war with the USSR.

    Oh really? I wonder, which comic book did you learn that bit of history from?

    But no, the USSR and Japan were not in a state of war on 6 August 1945, when the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. The USSR declared war on Japan on 8 August 1945, two days after the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. The USSR had remained neutral in the Pacific theater up until that point and entry into the conflict at that point in time was pretty clearly an opportunistic war of choice.

    Deranged, bloodthirsty Russophobia – 100,000′s more Red Army soldiers would have died invading Japan.

    Well, I have to admit that this is an imaginative bit of revisionist history. The U.S. dropped the bombs on Japan to save the lives of Russian soldiers, eh? I never heard that one before. So, I guess they destroyed Dresden in February of 1945 to save the lives of Russian soldiers as well, eh?

    Or maybe you’re just confused, since the official narrative is that they dropped the atomic bombs to save American lives. I’m pretty sure that’s nonsense as well. The war was basically over. The Japanese had been trying to sue for peace for months at that point. They didn’t use the atomic bombs to save American lives or Russian lives. They did it to try out their new toys. Why drop precisely two bombs anyway? That’s often asked, and I have long assumed the answer is that they had actually developed two different weapons, one Uranium-based and the other Plutonium-based and wanted to try out both of the new toys. The Hydrogen bomb came later, they didn’t have it yet. I assume that if they had had a third kind of bomb, they would have bombed a third city with that one.

    And of course all tightly wrapped up in supercilious moralization.

    To be maximally fair, I don’t actually believe that you are a genuine sociopath. A genuine sociopath would understand that he had to dissimulate and pretend to have compassion for the victims of this atrocity — even if he actually felt none.

    What you are is an immature little jerk who thinks that talking in this inappropriate, blithe manner about incinerating many tens of thousands of women and children, is somehow manly behavior. Of course it’s not. It’s the behavior of a kind of Peter Pan type personality, a boy who never grew up, who thinks that, via a certain kind of macho posturing, he can convince others that he is a man.

    But unfortunately, it has exactly the opposite effect.

    Some folks are beyond hope, but to everyone else – don’t be a sovcuck.

    Well, since you’re so willing to give advice, I guess I’ll give you some.

    First of all, many of the people you make a point of addressing so insolently — me certainly, the Saker, Martyanov, others…. — are old enough to be your father. Granted, age does not always confer wisdom, but you might seriously ponder that maybe, just maaaybe, people who’ve been around twenty to thirty years longer than you have might know some things you don’t.

    Well, just for starters, unlike you, we certainly all know the timeline of WW2… which brings us to a second bit of advice: throw away your comic book collection and learn some real history.

    Third bit of free advice: You have a very bad habit of engaging in behavior that amounts to outright intellectual fraud. So I suggest that when you don’t really know WTF you’re talking about, don’t talk about it… Alternatively: read more, write less…

    • Agree: Kiza
  300. @Jonathan Revusky

    “The Japanese had been trying to sue for peace for months at that point.”

    Source, please. Which Japanese? And how many months? It’s kind of important for your argument.

    • Replies: @utu
  301. peterAUS says:
    @AP

    Well, it appears that I stand corrected.

    …there has been dramatic improvement in number of soldiers, usability of equipment, etc.

    That’s my impression too. Ukraine appears to have made decent improvement there.
    Donbas hasn’t. They totally rely on the regime in Moscow.

    Putin team everywhere believes should Ukraine attack Donbas Russia will immediately step in and crush the attacker.
    Some people have certain….. doubts there.

    That makes all this interesting.
    One way to find out I guess.

    • Replies: @Aedib
  302. Seraphim says:

    Russian elections are anything but boring since they provoked so much discussions. So much that they became boring.

  303. peterAUS says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    The subject of A bombs on Japan has been discussed ad nauseam all over the place and time.
    On this site too.
    Never seen an example where a person states the opinion and changes it afterwards no matter what.
    I guess there is something in that topic which triggers that behavior.

    Just for the record, you are partially correct (my opinion; opinions and orifices I know).

    One of reasons was trying out the weapon, of course.

    Another was saving American lives because it was thought that Japan would not surrender fast. Invasion was deemed necessary.
    And, US public had quite enough of war. Finishing fast was important.
    On top of it both Navy and Air Force, or their leadership at the time, didn’t feel comfortable with siege approach (blockade, keep bombing and starve into submission).

    And, of course, the message to Stalin who’s the new boss in town.
    Interestingly, too, the idea of Russians getting involved in invasion and, effectively partition of Japan (as was happening in Europe and Germany in particular at the time) was also one of reasons.

    That movie “Day One” from ’89 depicts a lot of that rather well for that media. The decision making process, fractions, roles of certain power players etc.
    A member of Committee resigning in protest , Minister of War vetoing Kyoto as target, Gen Marshall being against (Eisenhower too). Oppenheimer being against demonstration and recommending both bombs for shock effect. Secretary of State hawkish approach. Truman being new to presidency at that moment and learning about the bomb after swearing into office.

    Bottom line, a complex and lengthy decision making. Complicated. Easier to keep it simple: bad Americans.

  304. Pavlo says:

    the government makes a show of it.

    there has been dramatic improvement in number of soldiers, usability of equipment

    That is the show.

    The Ukrainian army’s battlefield performance after February 2015 has not improved, nor will the odds ever again be as favourable as they were in Mid-2014. Kiev has assembled an army suitable for skirmishing and the occasional terrorist attack, nothing more strenuous. Building an army capable of winning the war would entail discipline and sacrifice, and the effort would be for nothing since the RF forces would move in and crush Kiev’s army if it were ever on the point of victory.

    Kiev is content with the status quo – it’s far from ideal for them but it’s not so bad as to justify the risks involved in a new offensive (this will never happen). Barring black swan events, the Ukraine is meta-stable and can muddle along indefinitely, so long as Moscow does not pull its finger out of its backside and resolve the situation properly.

    • Replies: @likbez
    , @AP
  305. utu says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    You did a very good job, JR.

  306. yurivku says:
    @Philip Owen

    In Saratov, a 30 square metre flat which costs 5 million roubles to buy costs 10,000 roubles a month to rent. That is across the city, not just the centre. Renting is a very good deal compared to buying even at a subsidized 6.5%. Russia is not Moscow.

    I don’t know where you getting these numbers, but it’s not true. I’ve bought a flat for mother 60 m2 20km from Moscow (small town Troitsk in “New Moscow”) for 2,000,000 rub. Yes, it’s not typical, some happy case, but it’s still possible for 3millions.

    But in USSR I got a flat for free 2 years after graduating an institute. Feel the difference.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  307. utu says:
    @Johnny Rico

    https://mises.org/library/hiroshima-myth

    at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945, Admiral Nimitz stated “The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war.”

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
  308. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    In every nation/race some people are bad, some good, some are heroes, some are cowards, some are smart and some are dumb, etc.

    It’s so much true that can be said banal. But, you know, there are rules and there are exceptions.
    BTW you already described it above when spoke of Ukies.
    We can say that proportions are different. A.Karlin likes to put in quasi-scientific way with graphs and diagrams, but everybody knows it from personal experience.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  309. Glossy says: • Website
    @Gerard2

    I think Karlin quoted here his old blog called Da Russophile. When I saw that I thought “oh my God, he once had a blog called DA RUSSOPHILE. Literally. I forgot. And what is he now?”

    Politically I became what I am now at the age of 30. It didn’t happen in one day. Maybe a few months. I think that’s typical. I will probably always be this guy now. And he will now always be a typical neocon cockroach. This is forever. It’s like skull bones hardening, some kind of a neural equivalent of that. I’m sure someone has studied this somewhere. Something happens to lots of people at 30.

    Star Wars movies are very stupid, but so is lots of folklore, yet it tells some truths about human nature. There is a scene in one of those movies, close to the end, set in a river of flowing lava, where one of Darth Vader’s mates shouts to him something like “how did you become this thing? You had promise.”

    It’s tacky, but, you know.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  310. yurivku says:
    @peterAUS

    Firstly I decided not to answer for I know you as not Rusophile and probably your questions are just some kind of trolling. Also as I understood you are from Croatia which of course add more colors to the picture. But you’ve touched interesting point.

    Don’t you think it’s rather personal question?

    Yes I do. Do you? If yes why do you ask?

    My take: does not matter who is on top there. The core system will always be the same.
    That’s why there is still a brain drain, or middle class drain, from Russia. And it will continue.

    That’s absolutely true for ZUS. For Russia it’s absolutely wrong. Just compare Gorbachev-Yeltsin-Putin.
    Can you see the difference? I can.
    And compare Bush -Clinton-Obama -Trump.
    Can you see the difference? I can’t.
    And for drain – that’s true. It’s because I say the system must be changed.

    the most fervent advocates of Russia are people who do NOT live there.

    Why didn’t you count me? I’m Russian, living in Russia, love Russia (but not blindly), well, not adore Putin, but neither hate him.

    As for your statement – it makes sense and should be thought over. Why “most fervent advocates of Russia are people who do NOT live there” ?
    I think that here there are three types of Russians (more exactly Russian speaking current and former Russian citizens) are present here:

    1. Gessen type. Represented here by Felix. They hate Russia heartily, each moment they try to prove how bad was their life in Russia and how good it is in the West. In Mashas case she’s allowed for LGBT activities. For Felix probably it’s a happiness to have abortion prohibited and transgendering allowed. Most of them not actually Russians. Here is a good insight:

    https://russia-insider.com/en/never-ever-listen-what-american-jews-have-say-about-russia/ri22480

    They are absolute amoral, but blaming Russians for that. They have not idea of God (any kind) and they hate Russian Othodox Church. They hardly read any Russian classic literature so they are thinking that Russian have no moral and no feelings except greed. It’s hard to judge them – the idea of Christian morality is alien for them.

    2. Сosmopolitans. Those can be Russians and not Russians, they have an idea that motherland there where they are prosperous. Don’t think we can see many of those here. Just probably some who are on their way to the West, but not yet left Russia. Others are just not interested to spare time in writing BS.

    3. I call them US-ass kissers or liberasts. They can switch to type 1 in the future, but currently they are in Russia. They are preaching western values among dark Russian masses and dream of reincarnation of liberal paradise in Russia, but after understanding it’s not possible got crying how amoral Russians are and prepare to leave.

    I did not count 4th type because it’s tiny:
    4. Just curious Russians (like me), living in Russia who’ve got to idea to understand how that stupid West lives. Why it’s not afraid of being melted in Africa/Asia/etc immigrants flow, why it has no compassion to those it kills all over the world, why it’s going to degrade stimulating exotic perversions at last why it provokes us, is it pretend to Darwin award?

    Probably there are some more.
    But why no Russians proud of Russia, living in Russia are here? I think just because they not only live in Russia, but speak also Russian and are interesting in Russian problems. The same reason why in Russian talking places no Westerners who advertise western way of life. Just Ukies who as always pour a sh#t (not a bull, but just plain S) on Russia. Well, it’s the only toy they have now.

    The sheer…….weirdness? …of that boggles the mind.
    No wonder it’s hard to take them seriously.

    Please take care of your brain. Don’t overexert.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @peterAUS
  311. yurivku says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Great. Agree.

    As for Karlin – IMHO he’s a product of US education. And in ZUS tradition is not be sorry for such a little thing as couple millions or so being killed.
    Madeleine Albright is a good example – Jewish child being saved by Serbs from Nazy she said that hundreds of thouthands killed in Iraq – “This is a very hard choice, but we think the price is worth it.”

    She paid Serbs also in full scale for her being saved.
    US citizens here feel no sorry about all the Dresden …, Japan, Iraq, Serbia, Vietnam, Syria … stories.
    Why Karlin should?

  312. yurivku says:
    @yurivku

    Sorry! I’ve forgotten type well represented here
    5. People who due to force majeure circumstances left Russia, but still feel a connection to it. And it’s main reason for them to be here and create blogs as Andrei and Saker do.
    Most of them will never return. For me it’s a pity, but understandable. Moreover, if they returned there is a great possibility for them to get unhappy because they got used for western problems and not adapted for ours.
    Actually I was suprised to see people like them and glad that not all former Russians lost for Russian world. But their children unfortunately are lost.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  313. Ivan K. says: • Website
    @Philip Owen

    :)
    There’s a brand new article that discusses precisely this, i.e. what we were talking about: (link)

  314. yurivku says:

    Good example of Western style of education. But this time from India which is, I believe ;-) the East

    For those who not knows/recognizes – its the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow on the cover.

    http://www.bagchee.com/books/BB68739/indian-architecture-islamic-period/

    Ok, they did not remember but “Islamic Period” and crosses on domes ?

  315. likbez says:
    @Pavlo

    Kiev is content with the status quo – it’s far from ideal for them but it’s not so bad as to justify the risks involved in a new offensive (this will never happen). Barring black swan events, the Ukraine is meta-stable and can muddle along indefinitely, so long as Moscow does not pull its finger out of its backside and resolve the situation properly.

    Two consideration:

    1. Ukraine decides very little. Government was outsourced to Washington, DC. If creation of tension with Russia is necessary, they will launch offensive.
    2. Nationalist movements, especially far-right, have their own often destructive dynamics and can do things that are illogical and/or highly harmful for the country. They also are ready to fight and die for their ideas. In this sense Poroshenko is a hostage of Galician far right “revolutionaries. “

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  316. likbez says:
    @AP

    And Poroshenko is now confident enough due to economic improvement that he is willing to avoid anti-corruption reforms because Ukraine can get by with delaying the IMF money.

    Unfortunately I do not see light at the end of the tunnel for Ukraine. And this is very sad, I would say tragic situation.

    Ukraine is now IMF debt slave without any ability to run independent economic policy. Conditions of association with EU are a big, horrible rip off of Ukraine (EU enjoys beating countries which already lie on the ground — look at Greece).

    Currency continues to slide (slowly but steadily). Total depreciation since 2014 is over 300% (8.5 to 27). Food prices make meat unaffordable for regular population (meat has approx. US prices with average monthly salary below 4000 hrivna even in Kiev ($5 a day; ~30% lower in Lviv and other peripheral cities; forget official statistic).

    Standard of living deteriorate each year due to rising cost of gas and, especially, heating in cities, which often exceeds pension. It is unclear to me how Ukrainian pensioners manage to survive this social experiment (with average pension around 1500 hrivna or so; or ~$2 a day). Formally they are doomed to extinction.

    I think many people now dream about return of “corrupt Yanukovich” times. But the train has left the station…

    • Replies: @AP
  317. Aedib says:
    @peterAUS

    It would not be necessary a Russian step in. They will just start Smerching incoming forces at distance like they did with the “southern cauldron” (July 2014).

  318. Jon0815 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Great sovcuck tell – whining about the US atomic bombing of Japan, merging as it does this great trinity:

    Ignorance – Previous fire bombings killed more Japanese than the two atomic bombs, and an invasion would have killed an order of magnitude more.

    Cuckoldry – Japan was at war with the USSR.

    Deranged, bloodthirsty Russophobia – 100,000′s more Red Army soldiers would have died invading Japan.

    This presumes that the atomic bombs were the decisive factor in Japan’s decision to surrender, rather than the Soviet declaration of war and victory in Manchuria. Which is clearly false.

    Yes, more Japanese died in the 3/9/45 firebombing of Tokyo (also a war crime) than at Nagasaki. And this did not cause Japan to surrender. The Japanese had known for months prior to August 1945 that Americans were willing and able to destroy their cities. What difference did it make to them whether that destruction took a second or a few hours? The atom bombings killed less than 1% of Japan’s population, while during the Korean War, North Korea lost around 15% of its population to conventional bombing without surrendering. Were North Koreans that much tougher than Japanese? No. The Japanese surrendered because they preferred a temporary occupation by Americans who would let them keep their Emperor, to a permanent occupation by Soviets who would not.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  319. Pavlo says:
    @likbez

    Even puppets can resist pressure from their overlord sometimes – especially when the demand is to commit political and personal suicide.

    As for the nationalists… those boobs, really? Dr Oleg Tinydick? Mongoloid Biletsky? Whichever jackass is in charge of Right Sector since Yarosh was fired for being a retarded? They are not a threat, not to Donbass or to Kiev – they showed during the war just how they would go about ‘fighting and dying for their ideas’.

    Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk’s greatest achievement was clawing back nearly all of the power those ding-dongs gained after February 2014 and forcing them into the subordinate roles they now occupy, all while pinching their ideology and hanging it above his fireplace.

  320. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The idea of ​​success at any cost, trampling on other people, has always been popular in the United States. Little or nothing ethical types like Milken and Jordan Belfort have had many admirers in the United States.

  321. AP says:
    @likbez

    Conditions of association with EU are a big, horrible rip off of Ukraine (EU enjoys beating countries which already lie on the ground — look at Greece).

    Ukraine’s foreign currency reserves are now higher than they were when Yanukovich was in power, external debt lower than in 2015, it’s economy has grown for two straight years and growth is predicted to accelerate in 2018, and wage growth has outpaced inflation. Work in next-door Poland eliminates unemployment (indeed, there are hints of a labor shortage, resulting in wage growth). Parts of the country are now doing better than they were before the revolution (Lviv oblast had a total drop of 5% GRP 2014-2015 – it has more than recovered since that time). Russian nationalist media portrays Ukraine as being in eternal 2015, spiraling down. This is comforting for some Russians, but not accurate.

    I visited Lviv, Kiev and cities in between last summer; my previous visit had been in 2013. Compared to 2013, Lviv has certainly improved. “Boom” is too strong a word but it was like visiting Moscow in the 2000s, one could see the positive changes. Kiev was a little worse off but about the same, not dramatically worse. I didn’t visit places like Kharkiv but I assume they are still much worse off.

    Total depreciation since 2014 is over 300% (8.5 to 27)

    Correct, but GDP PPP has not declined nearly as much. It was $8340 in 2013, down to $7460 in 2015, up to $7,670 in 2016 (and improved since then) (google trading economics).

    Keep in mind that a lot of this decline in per capita GDP was due to the loss of Donetsk, with its well above average product. This affected the numbers for national average but not the regional economies.

    with average monthly salary below 4000 hrivna even in Kiev ($5 a day; ~30% lower in Lviv and other peripheral cities; forget official statistic).

    Monthly salary in Kiev is 10,262 hrynia and in Lviv it is 8,963 hryvnia:

    https://www.epravda.com.ua/news/2018/02/5/633754/

    If things were so dire, why is Lviv so full of restaurants and shops and why are they all so busy? In the end of 2016 a massive mall was built outside Lviv, another one is already being built.

    Food prices make meat unaffordable for regular population (meat has approx. US prices

    According to numbeo a pound of beef (round) is $5.22 in the USA and $1.81 in Ukraine.

    In Lviv I enjoyed incredible steak that would have cost $40 in a US restaurant, for under $10.

    It is unclear to me how Ukrainian pensioners manage to survive this social experiment (with average pension around 1500 hrivna or so; or ~$2 a day).

    Average pension is about 2,400 hryvnias although it varies by region:

    http://www.pfu.gov.ua/pfu/control/uk/publish/article;jsessionid=05929924D46E6FE126E882A8E7837D91.app1?art_id=313580&cat_id=95533

  322. @Jonathan Revusky

    But no, the USSR and Japan were not in a state of war on 6 August 1945, when the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

    More specifically, the declaration of war took place in between Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with the commitment to join the war on Japan within 3 months of the defeat of Germany having been made by the USSR to the Western Allies at Yalta, and with troops having been moved into position for the Manchuria invasion for several months prior.

    The U.S. dropped the bombs on Japan to save the lives of Russian soldiers, eh? I never heard that one before.

    Good thing I didn’t say that, then.

    Obviously the US did it to save the lives of its troops, since unlike sovoks, Americans don’t live by the principle of “beat your own to scare the enemy” (бей своих чтобы чужие боялись).

    And showboating to Stalin was a nice bonus.

    However, it did obviously have the effect of saving Soviet lives that would otherwise have been expended taking Hokkaido and possibly northern Honshu – territories, moreover, which would have been lost in 1991 anyway.

    The Japanese had been trying to sue for peace for months at that point.

    Under conditions favorable to Japan, which were hilariously at odds with the military balance by mid-1945, which was completely tilted against Japan.

    They did it to try out their new toys. Why drop precisely two bombs anyway?

    The correct answer is that they had only two, since mass production had not yet been set up, but I can see why an (open and self-admitted) Holocaust denier, 9/11 truther, and refuse bin for every other insane conspiracy theory might think otherwise.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    , @yurivku
  323. @Jon0815

    This has indeed become a popular historiographic interpretation in the past decade, but at the time, the Americans had no way to know the Japanese considered the loss of Manchuria to have been the crucial development at which point Japan, which had previously wanted to broker a more favorable peace with the help of the USSR, lost any hope of ending the war on at least minimally favorable terms.

    From the American perspective, nukes could force the Japanese to peace – and apparently, from their immediate perspective, they did.

    Also it was a complete capitulation. I would need to check to make sure, but I am pretty sure that the Americans made no guarantees about the Emperor (indeed, the American insistence on a total capitulation was the key reason why the Japanese held out so long).

    • Replies: @Jon0815
  324. @Philip Owen

    In Saratov, a 30 square metre flat which costs 5 million roubles to buy costs 10,000 roubles a month to rent.

    Hm. The truth, however, is easily established by merely opening real estate (one of) listings for Saratov.

    https://srtv.realty.mail.ru/sale/living-2room/from1000000-to4000000/

    Most 2-room flats, some of them run anywhere between 1.9 to 3.5 million. Here is example of 49 (living space) sq.m. flat for 3.5 million.

    https://srtv.realty.mail.ru/offer/sale-liv-1946920317334507.html

    here is another for 2.75 mil.

    https://srtv.realty.mail.ru/offer/sale-liv-106511530000139598.html?osale2

    So, the numbers do not add and I posted here not some rundown dumpsters but very decent flats. In fact, Saratov has a very good supply of decent flats starting at 1.7 million. In fact, for 4.9 you can buy 3 room flat which is simply very good.

    https://srtv.realty.mail.ru/offer/sale-liv-1099211009261712.html?osale2

    But that really gets us all here, in this thread to the issue of what is FACT. In fact, it foes further to the essence of knowledge. This is also fact, for 4.5 million.

    https://srtv.realty.mail.ru/offer/sale-liv-1099211009262568.html

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  325. @utu

    While some people may question this source (as they do in comments), what corroborates and extremely strongly at that, all this A-bombing of Japan business was a massive–I mean massive, like two full newspaper pages–expose’ on this historic event by famous Russian Literaturnaya Gazeta (aka Literaturka) in the end of 1990s (those who are interested, I am sure, will find it in archives) with reference to Soviet intelligence and diplomatic sources, that USSR and Japan were actually in direct communications trying to arrange a surrender conditions way before Soviet Union even entered the war.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  326. @Glossy

    Correct, Da Russophile – not Da Sovietophile.

    (Isn’t it funny how Soviets even need to steal their pop culture references from America to make their point?).

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  327. AP says:
    @Pavlo

    the government makes a show of it.

    there has been dramatic improvement in number of soldiers, usability of equipment

    That is the show.

    The Ukrainian army’s battlefield performance after February 2015 has not improved, nor will the odds ever again be as favourable as they were in Mid-2014

    There have been no large battles recently, only skirmishes.

    In mid 2014 Ukraine had about 50,000 usable troops, currently it is about 200,000. In mid 2014 almost none of Ukraine’s equipment worked. A tank would be sent out, it would stop moving, the crew would have to abandon it, the rebels would pick it up and fix it themselves. Currently the number of tanks etc, has expanded considerably, and they are in working order. Training has also improved considerably. There were no brigade-level training exercises in 2013, in 2016 there were 20 and in 2017 there were 26. Ukraine has added 60 repaired planes to its air force and flying hours have increased from 36 to 46 hours. Ukraine has picked up the pace of rocket development:

    http://defence-blog.com/news/ukraine-successfully-tests-new-300mm-correctable-rockets.html

    So improvement is not simply a show.

    Of course, a fundamental problem remains: the military, while now large and well-equipped, and better-trained, is not built for the mobile warfare of the sort that Russia could unleash upon it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Pavlo
  328. Gerard2 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Just a couple of days ago a Russian anti-ATO activist was found hanged in a prison in Dnepropetrovsk; it soon emerged that she had been deported from Crimea for overstaying her visa, despite the obvious case for political asylum.

    Link? Or this blatant garbage story didn’t happen. Gleb Pavlovksy doesn’t count as a source

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @yurivku
  329. @Dmitry

    Compare Anatoly Karlin to the similar topic writers like Julia Ioffe. She has no comments section, and no engagement (writing back) with anyone she disagrees.

    But you can easily discuss things with Daniel Pipes–a heir to Pipes’ Russia’s history falsification fortune–at least you could till recently. I left some opinions several years ago. Ability to throw the shit and see what may stick is not in and of itself anything special. A bunch of publications which openly BS people have comments sections and many authors do “communicate”. Let me demonstrate to you what I am talking about. From Yesterday:

    Russia thinks its new advanced fighter jet in Syria will scare off other countries — but nobody’s afraid of it

    http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-su-57-syria-deter-scaring-nobody-2018-2

    Here is who writes this BS:

    Alex is a News Editor and a military and foreign policy blogger at Business Insider. He is from Atlanta, and he went to Georgia State University.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/author/alex-lockie

    He is about 25 years old and he “blogs” about things. That, I assume, makes him “qualified” and the fact that supposedly he is “generating” a discussion on what amounts to a basic crap should be good, right? Well, wrong–I personally (but it is just me) call them as I see them. In fact, yesterday Annamaria brought up an excellent point in Phil Giraldi’s excellent piece on possible war with Iran. Here it is:

    A puppet. An ignoramus and pedestrian profiteer with no dignity. In short, Gavin Williamson is a copy of Tony Blair the Pious. Mr. Gavin Williamson, the UK’s Minister of Defence, has zero (0) military experience; his education boasts a glorious “BS in social sciences.” As for his other credentials, “Williamson worked as managing director of fireplace manufacturer Elgin & Hall… He has also worked for a Staffordshire pottery firm that made and sold ceramic tableware…”

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/blundering-into-iran/#comment-2222035

    That is what this is about–not about some heated exchanges on the sort of shit. You can read my response to Annamaria in that thread. We all live in the world of ignoramuses and incompetents passing their “opinions” as valid POVs. Guess what–that what majority of “bloggers” is–a Warholian bunch in it for their 15 minutes of fame, nothing more. I steal Rurik’s excellent illustration to that, hope he forgives me:

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Seraphim
  330. EugeneGur says:
    @AP

    It is great that Ukraine has lost Donbas and Crimea, becoming more monocultural.

    Ukraine is a good way from becoming monocultural. First, to be monocultural you need to have at least one culture (nationalism Bandera-style doesn’t count). Ukraine is a patchwork of myriads of cultures, in the anthropological sense, and not much by the way of high culture that could serve as a unifying element. Besides, the latter one, whatever there is of it, is heavily influenced by a much more accomplished Russian culture.

    As far as culture goes, in whatever sense, Kharkov is no different from Donetsk – it might be even more “Russian” than Donetsk in some way. Odessa is culturally unique but is much, much more Russian that it is Ukrainian. The same is true to some extent for most cities of the East and South of Ukraine. Even Kiev is not exactly Ukrainian, although it’s being overrun in recent years by the newcomers from the West of Ukraine.

    There is really only one way to achieve a monocultural country – ethnic cleansing. That’s what the Ukrainian nationalists are aiming for.

  331. peterAUS says:
    @yurivku

    Firstly I decided not to answer for I know you as not Rusophile

    Understand.
    You are here for “online therapy”.
    That’s O.K. Beats drinking to death, or worse.

    And for drain – that’s true. It’s because I say the system must be changed..

    Any idea as to HOW?
    Just replace Putin with some other Messiah/multidimensional grand chess master? Quick and easy.
    Or…something else?

  332. @Felix Keverich

    “And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn’t want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.”
    If you had not specified the word ‘Russian’, I could have guessed you were talking about the USA.
    In fact not only do most Americans shy away from finding out about the truth in a country that has pushed division of labour to the maximum, they are trigger happy to be totally controlled by corporate media in a repetition of ‘Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction’ to ‘Russia and Putin the source of all evil’. Beyond some truly enlightened Americans whose opinions I am honoured and glad to read on this site, the black majority of the American public still go about their struggle for survival trusting the American politicians and American military are doing the right thing.

  333. AP says:

    Sorry, you demonstrate wishful thinking.

    Ukraine is a good way from becoming monocultural

    I did not say it became monocultural, I said it became more monocultural. It’s gone from being about evenly divided, to being 70/30.

    Ukraine is a patchwork of myriads of cultures, in the anthropological sense, and not much by the way of high culture that could serve as a unifying element

    Doesn’t compare to Russian high culture, but Ukrainian high culture is probably not worse than that of other historically rural peoples such as the Slovaks. Shevchenko is certainly not bad, much of the entire world loves “Carol of the Bells,” Ukraine produced nice choral music. It is not a cultural desert.

    Kharkov is no different from Donetsk

    Kharkiv – 53% Ukrainian, 43% Russian by ethnicity
    Donetsk – 48% Russian, 46% Ukrainian by ethnicity

    Russians have always outnumbered Ukrainians in Donetsk. Ukrainians have outnumbered Russians in Kharkiv since the 1920s (and before industrialization in the mid 19th century – Kharkiv was an old Cossack town settled by ethnic Ukrainians/Little Russians in the 17th century).

    Kharkiv – self-declared native language 66% Russian
    Donetsk – self-declared native language 88% Russian

    In the 2012 elections about 31% of Kharkiv oblast voters chose one of the three pro-Western parties, compared to only 11% of Donetsk oblast voters.

    So Kharkiv, while being the most “Russian” city in modern Ukraine, is quite different from Donetsk.

    Even Kiev is not exactly Ukrainian, although it’s being overrun in recent years by the newcomers from the West of Ukraine

    Most newcomers to Kiev have been people from surrounding central Ukrainian areas such as Zhytomir, not from western Ukraine.

    In 2012 17% of Kiev voters voted for Svoboda.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  334. peterAUS says:
    @AP

    ….currently it is about 200,000…..

    … There were no brigade-level training exercises in 2013, in 2016 there were 20 and in 2017 there were 26. Ukraine has added 60 repaired planes to its air force and flying hours have increased from 36 to 46 hours.

    Interesting.

    Donbas, at the other hand…………

    So, it all boils to the regime in Moscow stepping, decisively and timely, in.

    We’ll see.

  335. @yurivku

    Most of them will never return.

    I am hellbent on selling my uniquely valuable for medical research organs to University of Washington Medical School and live off them… Oh, wait. ;-) I have no problems with serving as a skeleton in anatomy classes, as long as it benefits humanity. My family, of course, have other ideas, so who knows–I may return for permanent residence to Russia in some form and state.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  336. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    Anon from TN
    Yes, this should be banal. Unfortunately, a lot of people, including those who proclaim this, do not act accordingly.
    As to Ukies, I meant mad nationalistic ones. I strongly suspect that the proportion of the crazies among the population is roughly the same in Ukraine and other countries. My impression is based on what I hear from my relatives and friends living on that godforsaken territory. Younger ones ran away in different directions, but people older than 50 often don’t have this choice; besides, as they are beyond draft age, they don’t feel immediate danger. I also have a post-doc from Kharkov oblast, and he says that his relatives and friends are mostly normal. Indirectly this is supported by frequent complaints from prominent crazies that too many people speak Russian in Kiev, or express “separatist” (their term for normal) opinions in Kharkov, Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, and elsewhere. My bet is, the disease will pass, although the recovery will be long and painful: the industry is in a sad state with dim prospects, agriculture is struggling, people’s incomes are falling even faster than hryvna, there are few resources, while current foreign debt of the state exceeds $76 billion.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @yurivku
  337. EugeneGur says:
    @peterAUS

    My impression is that Donbas is being left to own devices, more or less. Especially re self-defense.

    It’s the wrong impression. Clearly, no one in Russia wants a war in Donbass to go into a hot phase for Russia to have to intervene but intervene it will. Not necessarily openly but it will do enough to preserve Donbass.

    The Russian leadership in its geopolitical calculations quite obviously has a plan for Donbass, and, yes, Russia prefers Donbass to formally stay in Ukraine for a variety of reasons. This plan, however, doesn’t include letting Donbass to be overrun by force under any circumstances. Putin said that much many a time. Besides, no one, not even Putin with all his political capital, can afford to let Donbass fall. The Russian people today may seem indifferent but they aren’t, not really, and the moment there is danger of Ukraine crushing Donbass, they’ll demand action.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  338. @Anatoly Karlin

    More specifically, the declaration of war took place in between Hiroshima and Nagasaki, blah blah blah

    The point is that you were trying to argue that Russians should be perfectly happy that the U.S. incinerated two Japanese cities full of women and children because Japan was the enemy, i.e. the USSR and Japan were at war. And you went on to claim that this saved Russian lives.

    So, of course, I pointed out that you had the timeline wrong. The USSR declaring war on Japan was AFTER the bombing of Hiroshima.

    Now, in a bit of tactical chutzpah, you are trying to lecture me on the timeline as if it was me that got the timeline wrong! Nice trick. A tad sophomoric, but a nice try anyway. But, of course, I see through it, just as I see through you generally.

    You are a complete fraud. You are the kind of person who will watch a History Channel documentary about some topic or read the comic book version of whatever, and then repeat that version of events, all the while pretending that these are conclusions that you drew based on serious study of the topic, like reading multiple serious books about it — except that it’s a total bluff and fraud.

    The U.S. dropped the bombs on Japan to save the lives of Russian soldiers, eh? I never heard that one before.

    Good thing I didn’t say that, then.

    Okay, maybe not that exactly. What you said was:

    Deranged, bloodthirsty Russophobia – 100,000′s more Red Army soldiers would have died invading Japan.

    So your idea is that somebody who deplores the pointless destruction of two Japanese cities and the massive, wanton destruction of civilian life is doing so out of “deranged, bloodthirsty Russophobia” .

    Well, there’s no level on which this makes any sense. In fact, it’s downright Orwellian. NOT approving of the mass slaughter of civilians is “bloodthirsty”???!

    Under conditions favorable to Japan, which were hilariously at odds with the military balance by mid-1945, which was completely tilted against Japan.

    Karlin, you’re all bluff. You’re like one of these compulsive bluffers who just keeps trying to up the stakes and continue bluffing. It’s been demonstrated that you didn’t even know the basic timeline. You thought that the USSR and Japan were already at war when the U.S. dropped the bomb. I point out your ignorance of the basic history and, like any bluffer, you turn around and act like you’re going to now lecture me when your own ignorance has been exposed.

    No dice.

    And, as for this, that the Japanese were making unreasonable demands, and that’s why their attempts to sue for peace were ignored, well, I doubt that’s true, but the one thing I know for sure is that you, Karlin, don’t know anything about this topic and are just making shit up.

    And that’s really pretty deplorable.

    My guess is that the Japanese were quite realistic about the military situation, what with having no navy or air force left. They still had a large army, but it was all on the Asian continent with no way of getting back to defend the homeland anyway.

    Most likely, the Japanese leadership would have acceded to any conditions that the U.S. wanted to end the pain. Face is important in Asia, so, yes, they were probably trying to save a bit of face, but that’s about it. On the pragmatic level, they were basically trying to surrender, I think.

    To drop nuclear bombs on a large civilian population center of a country, whose leadership is basically tying to surrender to you — this is not perhaps laudable behavior.

    Now, to be utterly fair, you did make a point that is somewhat valid here:

    Previous fire bombings killed more Japanese than the two atomic bombs,

    Yes, it is true that the Anglo-American allies, in their prior conventional bombing of both Japan and Germany had already established that they considered massive, wanton destruction of civilian life to be a legitimate way of making war, even at a stage where the war was over in all but name. So, in a sense, the precedent was already established and the use of the nukes was nothing new per se. But still, the notion that people who object to this are just “cucks” or just objecting to this due to “deranged, bloodthirsty Russophobia” (!) is itself pretty deranged really.

    But anyway, the basic problem in this kind of conversation with a disgusting snotnose punk fraud like you is that you don’t really know WTF you’re talking about. Like, on these other questions you reference below, Holocaust Revisionist scholarship, or 9/11 Truth, or false flag terrorism generally, you simply know nothing about these topics.

    All you know about these topics is that you are supposed to be believe the official story and ridicule people who don’t believe it. The term I have used for people like you in the past — it is unflattering, but quite accurate — is “shit eater”. They throw the bullshit in your general direction and you gobble it up. Yum yum.

    Another relevant term is “gatekeeper” . You preen yourself as a critical thinker or maverick on a limited set of things but then on all the key topics, you toe the line absolutely and ridicule the real critical thinkers who don’t toe the line.

    Regardless of terminology, shit eater or gatekeeper or whatever, it is the diametrical opposite of being a real critical thinker, which is what you present yourself as. Fraudulently…

    I can see why an (open and self-admitted) Holocaust denier, 9/11 truther, and refuse bin for every other insane conspiracy theory might think otherwise.

    Again, the fact that you think that the above is an insult just shows how far you are away from being a genuine critical thinker.

    Basically, you are a complete fraud. I should ask you to give me a list of all the books on the Holocaust and 9/11 and so forth that you have read. But I won’t even bother. I know you would be unable to do so. You know nothing about these topics. All you know is that you are supposed to proclaim your belief in the official story on these things and ridicule the genuine critical thinkers who don’t believe the official story.

    I don’t know if I’ll reply if you write any more bullshit in this thread. It’s easy enough to give you a spanking, but it’s also sort of nauseating to interact with somebody this dishonest. I’ve come to realize that you are a real lowlife, somebody of very low moral character.

    • Disagree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Johnny Rico
    , @Kiza
  339. Jon0815 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    This has indeed become a popular historiographic interpretation in the past decade, but at the time, the Americans had no way to know the Japanese considered the loss of Manchuria to have been the crucial development at which point Japan, which had previously wanted to broker a more favorable peace with the help of the USSR, lost any hope of ending the war on at least minimally favorable terms.

    They also had no way to know that mass-murdering 100,000′s of civilians by nuclear fission, would be any more successful at forcing Japanese capitulation, then mass-murdering similar numbers by chemical firebombs had been. Even if the Americans had been genuinely confident that the Japanese would never surrender without being atom-bombed (and in fact most top military officers, from Eisenhower to Le May, thought the bombings were unnecessary), such confidence would have been unreasonable. Certainly, when there is reasonable doubt as to its necessity, the moral thing to do is err on the side of not slaughtering noncombatants. And why the rush to use the bombs, when Operation Downfall wouldn’t have been ready until November at the earliest? Perhaps because if the true motive for the bombings was a show of force for the Soviets, they needed to be carried out quickly, to prevent the possibility that the Japanese would surrender first.

    It is possible that the atom bombings did save the lives of some Soviet troops, though probably not “100,000′s”. If the Japanese still hadn’t surrendered to the US by the time the Soviet invasion began (in September or October), they likely would have done so fairly swiftly, once the Red Army had established a foothold on Hokkaido.

    Also it was a complete capitulation. I would need to check to make sure, but I am pretty sure that the Americans made no guarantees about the Emperor

    It is true that US surrender terms did not explicitly guarantee the Emperor’s retention. But the Japanese believed the Americans would allow it. On August 10, Japan made a formal request to the Allies, that the Emperor would keep his throne. In their August 11 response, the Allies did not demand his removal, and instead stated that “From the moment of surrender the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the state shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied powers”, which implied that the position of Emperor would continue to exist. On August 14, the Emperor told Japan’s cabinet that he had studied the Allied reply, and found it acceptable because it virtually acknowledged that he would be retained.

    At the very least, even without an explicit guarantee, under an American occupation there was a good chance that the Emperor would remain, whereas under a Soviet occupation not only would there be no chance of that happening, Hirohito would have been lucky to avoid the same fate as Nicholas II.

    (indeed, the American insistence on a total capitulation was the key reason why the Japanese held out so long).

    If the Emperor’s status was the sticking point which prevented an earlier surrender, it was foolish for the US not to formally commit to what it would end up doing anyway. Not only would this have saved many Japanese lives, and spared the US the permanent stigma of being the only country to ever use a nuclear bomb on a civilian population, but if the war had ended a little earlier, there might have never been a North Korea.

  340. EugeneGur says:
    @AP

    Kharkiv – 53% Ukrainian, 43% Russian by ethnicity
    Donetsk – 48% Russian, 46% Ukrainian by ethnicity

    You keep pushing these numbers (I don’t know where they come from), but the truth is even if they are correct and these people are indeed formally registered somewhere as Ukrainians, it doesn’t make a slightest difference. What matters is which language they identify with, which culture and history – and for the most part it isn’t Ukrainian. I know a lot of such “Ukrainians” that are in no way different from us Russians. You identify this formal ethnicity with the real thing, and that makes absolutely no sense, at least, in case of Russia and Ukraine.

    Donetsk is close to 100% Russian speaking and so is Kharkov and Odessa. So was Kiev until quite recently.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Philip Owen
  341. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    anon in TN is a treasure-trove of nonsense about Ukraine

    the industry is in a sad state with dim prospects,

    Manufacturing production steady growth since the beginning of 2016, with slight decline in December 2017:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/manufacturing-production

    people’s incomes are falling even faster than hryvna,

    Steady wage growth that outpaces inflation since 2015:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

    agriculture is struggling

    LOL.

    Soem decline from a very high level in 2016.

    current foreign debt of the state exceeds $76 billion

    Debt was lower % of GDP in 2016 than in 2015:

    https://www.focus-economics.com/country-indicator/ukraine/external-debt

    Meanwhile Ukraine’s booming IT sector is recruiting workers in Belarus and Moldova:

    https://theubj.com/news/view/lvivs-hot-it-industry-to-recruit-tech-workers-from-belarus-and-moldova-2

    VIV – IT is so hot here that companies are working with the city to recruit specialists from Belarus and Moldova.

    Today, about 20,000 Ukrainians work in IT in Lviv, the largest city in Western Ukraine. But with the sector growing by 20% annually, companies say they need more software engineers to sustain growth.

    IT accounts for about 30% of Lviv’s total economy. The sector generates a further 72,000 jobs in areas connected to tech.

    “We’re going to start pilot advertising schemes on television and online to attract IT specialists to Lviv from countries such as Moldova and Belarus,” Stepan Veselovskyi, CEO of the city’s influential IT Cluster, said in an interview. “We’re now working with the Lviv City Council to develop this plan and it has their support.”

    Integrating specialists from Belarus and Moldova poses challenges.

    The vast majority of Belarusians coming to Lviv would be able to use Russian – almost 75% of the country use it as their first language. But it would be difficult for recruits from Moldova, where only about 15% of the population speaks Russian easily.

    “Most importantly, we have to think about welcome packages and how to integrate these workers to Lviv,” says Veselovskyi. “A convincing pitch can be made to attract them here. Salaries average $1,500 a month, and are often even higher, and we have a good quality of life here.”

  342. AP says:
    @EugeneGur

    You keep pushing these numbers (I don’t know where they come from)

    Numbers come from Soviet and post-Soviet censuses (they didn’t change much from 1989 to 2001).

    What matters is which language they identify with, which culture and history – and for the most part it isn’t Ukrainian.

    If this were the case they would be voting for explicitly pro-Russian parties, and they haven’t been, so they do not identify as Russians. There were no serious pro-Russian actions in Kharkiv after Maidan, as there were in Donetsk and Crimea. Just some small-scale protests.

    In the 2012 election, 31% of Kharkiv voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties. In Ukraine pro-Ukrainian skews young, pro-Russian skews old. So 31% overall pro-Ukrainian votes means around 50% of the young voters chose pro-Ukrainian parties (and 90+% of pensioners chose pro-Russian ones). The future doesn’t belong to pensioners.

    2014 was the stress-test for the Ukrainian state. Regions that wanted to leave has the opportunity to do so, the Ukrainian state was helpless to stop them, and Russia was willing to provide some help. Only Donbas and Crimea left.

    It’s bad news for Russian optimists.

    Donetsk is close to 100% Russian speaking and so is Kharkov and Odessa. So was Kiev until quite recently

    And Dublin speaks English, not Gaelic. So they re really Englishemen there, wanting English liberation?

  343. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    That’s one way to look at it.

    There is another.
    Let’s change some terms as:

    Besides, no one, not even Putin with all his political capital, can afford to let Donbass fall. The Russian people today may seem indifferent but they aren’t, not really, and the moment there is danger of Ukraine crushing Donbass…

    into

    Besides, no one, not even Putin with all his political capital, can afford to let Donbass reintegrated. The Russian people today may seem indifferent but they aren’t, not really, and the moment there is possibility of Ukraine reintegrating Donbass…

    Add to that some relaxing of sanctions, especially for top echelon, put the cost of supporting Donbas there too and, well……not so clear cut anymore I think.

    You appear to be knowledgeable of the thing.
    So, a question then: why Donbas hasn’t developed its own, Corps size, combined arms defense force?
    Any particular reason for that?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  344. @yurivku

    When my landlady looks for a place she uses this site. http://realty.sarbc.ru/ even so, I am perplexed about how I wrote down 5 million.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @Philip Owen
  345. peterAUS says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    You are a complete fraud.

    …it’s a total bluff and fraud.

    Karlin, you’re all bluff. You’re like one of these compulsive bluffers who just keeps trying to up the stakes and continue bluffing.

    …. disgusting snotnose punk fraud like you

    term I have used for people like you in the past — it is unflattering, but quite accurate — is “shit eater”. They throw the bullshit in your general direction and you gobble it up. Yum yum.

    …Basically, you are a complete fraud.

    It’s easy enough to give you a spanking, but it’s also sort of nauseating to interact with somebody this dishonest. I’ve come to realize that you are a real lowlife, somebody of very low moral character.

    Illuminating.

  346. @Andrei Martyanov

    When my landlady looks for a place she uses this site. http://realty.sarbc.ru/ because they are usually sold by the owners rather than an estate agent. Even so, I am perplexed about how I wrote down 5 million. I am being pushed to make a contribution to the next one.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  347. @EugeneGur

    I speak English as my primary language. It doesn’t stop me being Welsh.

    Go to Dublin and tell the locals that speaking English makes them English.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  348. @Philip Owen

    I am perplexed about how I wrote down 5 million.

    Typos and mistakes happen.

  349. And, as for this, that the Japanese were making unreasonable demands, and that’s why their attempts to sue for peace were ignored, well, I doubt that’s true

    The Potsdam declaration was vague on the fate of the Emperor, quote: “the elimination for all time [of] the authority and influence of those who have deceived and misled the people of Japan into embarking on world conquest”. AFAIK, the Japanese wanted explicit assurances, but in the end they surrendered without getting those explicit assurances.

    I believe the two main points the Japanese were trying to secure were: a) keeping the Emperor and b) avoiding the occupation of Japan. They were trying to get the Soviets involved to mediate, but basically gave up after the A-bombing and Soviet entry into the war in Manchuria. In the end the Japanese accepted the occupation of the homeland and took the risk on the status of the Emperor, as the Allied reply to Japanese conditional acceptance of Potsdam terms was “the ultimate form of government of Japan shall, in accordance with the Potsdam Declaration, be established by the freely expressed will of the Japanese people”.

  350. @Jonathan Revusky

    “You thought that the USSR and Japan were already at war when the U.S. dropped the bomb. I point out your ignorance of the basic history…”

    Actually, from your couple of posts on this thread, it seems that it is you who is ignorant of that basic history. Anatoly Karlin is more right than wrong here.

    You would do well to take another look at that actual history rather than rely on the timeline of officially recognized actions and declarations.

    Stalin agreed to enter the war against Japan in February 1945 at the Yalta Conference. He pledged to do this within 3 months of Germany’s defeat in Europe.

    On April 5th, 1945 Molotov called Ambassador Sato into his office and declared the Soviet intention of denouncing the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact on April 13th, 1945 – in eight days, the deadline for The Pact’s article three which had been signed on April 13th, 1941 (before both Pearl Harbor and Barbarossa). Article three said that if it wasn’t denounced by April 13th, 1945 (4 years) it would automatically be renewed for another 5 years.

    At this point, Stalin KNEW that both 1) he was obligated to attack Japan three months after Germany’s fall and 2) Germany was about to fall. Soon.

    Various German forces components surrendered between April 28th and May 6th.

    Interesting timing on all this stuff, huh?

    If you actually read the history you might draw several conclusions about intentions and realities other than the ones you have conveniently already arrived at.

  351. @TT

    Never said or implied that China should “have no influence” in the world, or even that I expect it to have less influence than the USA. Certainly not.

    Incidentally, my children are learning Mandarin from a young age, and my wife and I dedicate a meaningful portion of our retirement investments to stock in Chinese companies, from Baidu and China Mobile on down. These are clear indications of my expectations about the likely trajectory of the Chinese economy and the main Chinese national language over the next two generations.

    I have no desire for war with China, and I respect their accomplishments and the positive aspects of their culture.

    I just don’t trust them to be kind or fair to any of us, as they grow far more powerful than us. Not by a long shot. I certainly think they will need to be actively contained to Asia, broadly construed, and deterred beyond that.

    I agree that the US should withdraw its troops from Japan and South Korea.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @TT
  352. @Andrei Martyanov

    And after knowing it all and who they were dealing with last Soviet leadership surrendered everything for empty promises not even put on paper. Can one imagine giving away what constituted surefire strategic space and security coming with it for whatever promises even set in gold especially after the price paid and numerous visits from partners before.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  353. @yurivku

    It is difficult to understand their constant delusion especially in light of all their illusions being proven to be false right in front of their eyes. This AP guy is pushing same thing about Ukraine especially the West of it turning into sort of New Vasyuki that it reminds one guy from Dnepropetrovsk 15 years ago here in Canada telling me Ukraine was going to become sort of eastern Europe tiger based upon some temporary recovery. If to make a chart of how Ukraine has been “developing” since 1992 it looks more like swimming axe.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonFromTN
    , @yurivku
  354. Pavlo says:
    @AP

    There have been no large battles recently, only skirmishes.

    Three and a bit years of skirmishing is our best indicator of the Ukrainian army’s battlefield capability – all told, they have made it clear that they haven’t gotten anymore capable vis-a-vis the opposing force.

    In mid 2014 Ukraine had about 50,000 usable troops, currently it is about 200,000

    60 to 80 thousand was the most they could field in the combat zone at any given time. I have seen no indication they are maintaining 200 thousand men along the contact line (Glazyev’s fever dreams notwithstanding), which would be unlikely on its face now that all front line troops are contractors.

    almost none of Ukraine’s equipment worked. A tank would be sent out, it would stop moving, the crew would have to abandon it, the rebels would pick it up and fix it themselves

    That is a wild overstatement – Kiev’s armour superiority never fell below 3 to 1. The DNR army didn’t even acquire its first tanks until June (at least this is when I recall first seeing one in their vids).

    Training

    Alot of activity, to be sure. Only full-scale war would tell us for sure whether real improvement has taken place, but the results of skirmishing are not encouraging.

    air force

    So they are back where they started. Better than nothing, but they would need to do a lot better than they did in 2014.

    Ukraine has picked up the pace of rocket development:

    The arms business is good business – must develop some new systems to stay competitive. Uncle Satan’s attempts to strong-arm third world governments may well generate some new contracts for the Ukrainian arms industry. Whether the military can put them to any good use is a separate issue.

    So yes, Kiev is content with the appearance of improvement, just so long as the military doesn’t get any worse – though they lack the will to win the war they certainly don’t intend to lose it either.

    the military, while now large and well-equipped, and better-trained, is not built for the mobile warfare of the sort that Russia could unleash upon it.

    The Ukrainian military would first need to defeat the DNR before this became an issue. The DNR hasn’t been idle these past years and they’ve even managed to clear out some of their…. less gifted members. Coordination between the DNR and LNR is far closer than it was during the 2014 fighting (from memory, they didn’t even establish a unified army command until after October).

    One useful thing Kiev could do would be to dissolve the damned volunteer battalions, disperse whatever worthwhile personnel they have among regular military units and send the rest back to the jails where they found them.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @yurivku
  355. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    all their illusions being proven to be false right in front of their eyes.

    Right before my eyes I saw full restaurants and shops, and new buildings, being built in Lviv. Right before my eyes, I saw traffic jams in Kiev, normal life.

    Let me guess: holograms created by CIA.

  356. Yevardian says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Perhaps Glossy made it because you, having a complete lack of interest in the great Russian writers or high-culture generally, felt making his point this way would be more appropriate.
    For a self-described ‘Russian patriot’ your whole cultural consumption seems to centre around video-games, American trash shows and films, whilst simultaneously denigrating ordinary Russians as быдло trash.
    Human life is valuable on the basis of culture, civilisation and people living good lives, not some Sci-fi/Neocon nonsense revolving around creating genetic supermen and crushing others under your boot. The Saker may be an ideological dilettante, but so are you.

    Your entire worldview is based on a very ugly strain of power-worship and liberast notions of ‘progress’. I suspect that if were not for your vestigial disgust for homosexuality due to your upbringing, alongside ego and a talent for self-promotion, you would be fully aboard the Globalist train.
    The American Empire is after all much stronger and more successful correct? Isn’t that all that matters to you in the end? Whilst you dismiss the Baltics and other small nations as not worthy of existing, what happens in a scenario where Russia collapses into some ‘Promethean’ scenario?
    People who worship power are usually compensating for some real or perceived defect or slight unrelated to politics. I was on the fence for a while, but I would not consider you different from Alan Dershowitz, Masha Gessen or John Bolton.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  357. Gerard2 says:
    @Philip Owen

    I speak English as my primary language. It doesn’t stop me being Welsh.

    Go to Dublin and tell the locals that speaking English makes them English.

    A stupid comment for a grown-up. You’re not competing to be English or welsh, because your Passport says you’re British. English is an official language for Ireland, its usage is not a cultural or political issue in Ireland…..neither is competency in the Irish language. Irish language, unlike the imaginary “Ukrainian” has been around for centuries.

    On the contrary,despite the fact that any vote would have comfortably allowed it after Independence and Presidential candidates campaigning promising it, Russian is still not an official language in Ukraine, contrary to all logic and norms. Russian use is a political and cultural issue for the Ukrainian authorities…..that spills over into many issues in Education and business.

    As such , it is a stupid analogy to make of English use in Ireland and Wales…….with Russian use in Ukraine

    Incidentally more servicemen(scumbags) from Lvov have died than from the Kiev-Nazi controlled parts of Donetsk and Lugansk COMBINED,despite the proximity and forced conscription and the Kiev controlled parts of Donetsk and Lugansk still being a bigger population than Lvov

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  358. peterAUS says:
    @Yevardian

    It appears that the “Team Russia” is after Anatoly, full throttle, here.

    ….you, having a complete lack of interest in the great Russian writers or high-culture generally, felt making his point this way would be more appropriate.

    …your whole cultural consumption seems to centre around video-games, American trash shows and films

    The Saker may be an ideological dilettante, but so are you.

    Your entire worldview is based on a very ugly strain of power-worship and liberast notions of ‘progress’.

    …usually compensating for some real or perceived defect or slight…

    I would not consider you different from Alan Dershowitz, Masha Gessen or John Bolton.

    I’ll take that “full throttle” back for the moment, though.
    Still no mention of “child pornography” and/or similar.
    A matter of time I guess.

  359. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Anon from TN
    He/she/it should share his sources with Ukrainian “president” Poroshenko. Very recently in a long interview Poroshenko said that the standards of living of Ukrainians did not improve “so far”. He consoled them by saying that his net worth decreased. Considering that we are talking about a billion dollars or more, I am sure the populace appreciated his sacrifice. I guess his recent vacation on Maldives was also a huge sacrifice for the sake of his people.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Sergey Krieger
  360. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @peterAUS

    Anon from TN
    You grossly overestimate the importance of the Karlin personage for them Russkies. They are simply waving him away, like an annoying fly. That’s more humane than swatting it, wouldn’t you say?

    • Agree: yurivku
  361. Kiza says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    JR I agree with everuthing you wrote about Karlin, although you did not dwell on my part – that the dill tortures logic and lacks even the most basic skills of reasoning. His is the logic of: if A=B and B=C then A=D. It is only in the Internet age that such individuals can write or even teach in academia (yes, there is at least one professors at Harvard who deduce just like Karlin).

    I have put an opinion forward to Mr Unz to limit the yellow privilege to article authors only, the discussion priviledge that this dill has been abusing constantly, unlike authors such as Andrei, you and others. I do not mind Karlin as yet another troll, a regular one attacking the Saker’s work because they are so many others. But he should not be able to poisition himself as the leader of the anti-Saker trolls thanks to the abuse of this priviledge. Just make the troll’s opinions equal to everybody else.

    The only positive side of this yellow diarrhoea is that it is easier to identify and step over.

    I once read one of Karlin’s articles and found it so dumb and contrived that I quitly tunned out. It was only when the yellow pest started appearing here regularly that the pest became a small nuisance.

  362. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    He/she/it should share his sources with Ukrainian “president” Poroshenko. Very recently in a long interview Poroshenko said that the standards of living of Ukrainians did not improve “so far”

    Anon from TN now reveals himself to be a liar. His string of failures continues.

    From the interview:

    http://www.stalkerzone.org/poroshenko-avoided-questions-objectionable-journalists-two-hour-press-conference/

    He said standard of living hasn’t considerably improved, and is “only now beginning to be restored, but the pace is too slow

    And that is correct.

    Liar from TN changes slow improvement to no improvement.

  363. peterAUS says:

    Wouldn’t know about that, really.

    For such people of great culture (as they keep lecturing everyone here about) they do appear to be a little……tactless. Lacking manners even.
    Or they simply just, for a second, lost control, got overwhelmed by moral outrage?

    Maybe they are just not used to hear a dissenting opinion. Never worked that way over there. Add a bit of age and culture of a stiff drink here and there and it’s easy to slip.

    Or they are simply Kremlin trolls and supervisor gave strict orders?

    Hard to say, wouldn’t you say?

    • Replies: @yurivku
  364. AP says:
    @Pavlo

    Three and a bit years of skirmishing is our best indicator of the Ukrainian army’s battlefield capability – all told, they have made it clear that they haven’t gotten anymore capable vis-a-vis the opposing force

    Which has itself improved considerably.

    Limiting activities to skirmishing is deliberate, since the objective is to hold the Donbas forces at bay rather than to invade.

    “In mid 2014 Ukraine had about 50,000 usable troops, currently it is about 200,000″

    60 to 80 thousand was the most they could field in the combat zone at any given time. I have seen no indication they are maintaining 200 thousand men along the contact line (Glazyev’s fever dreams notwithstanding

    Correct. Ukraine will not put every one of its 200,000 troops on the Donbas line, leaving zero troops anywhere else in th ecountry.

    When it had 50,000 total troops it wouldn’t put every one of them on the line either.

    “Ukraine has picked up the pace of rocket development”:

    The arms business is good business – must develop some new systems to stay competitive. Uncle Satan’s attempts to strong-arm third world governments may well generate some new contracts for the Ukrainian arms industry.

    US has probably gotten the Saudis to finance this thing:

    http://defence-blog.com/news/ukraine-unveils-new-tactical-missile-system.html

    Russians have noticed:

    http://www.mk.ru/politics/2018/01/30/ukraine-obzavelas-sobstvennoy-krylatoy-raketoy-stoit-li-rossii-boyatsya.html

    Speaking about the threat of the Russian naval grouping in the Black Sea, Barabanov suggested that the creation of Neptune in reality would be a slow issue, and most likely the path to the series would take about 10 years.

    According to Ruslan Pukhov, a member of the Public Council under the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, in general, Ukrainian missile projects (Neptune and Grom-2) pose a very serious threat to the national security of the Russian Federation.

    “There is a threat of deploying in a few years very serious and relatively high-precision weapon systems of the hostile state in close proximity to important and densely populated regions of Russia, including Moscow,” the expert said. “From the military point of view, this threat will require strengthening air defense and missile defense in Moscow and the entire Central region, but in any case, these systems will complicate the military and political situation, and for the leadership of Ukraine will become a powerful political and propaganda argument about alleged” intimidation of Moscow. ” On the good side, it would be desirable for Russia to prevent the deployment or creation of such systems in Ukraine at all. ”

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  365. yurivku says:
    @Gerard2

    If you read Russian the story in details can be found here: https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4021792.html

  366. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Well you shouldn’t do that! Pentagon is seeking for Russian DNA:

    https://gorobzor.ru/novosti/obschestvo/v-pentagone-obyasnili-zachem-sobirayut-obrazcy-dnk-rossiyan-01-11-2017

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201802040556-xdj4.htm

    You should keep secret!
    Well hopefully you knew it was a joke.

    I may return for permanent residence to Russia in some form and state.

    Sure, “in some form and state” we are everywhere.
    But currently you are making PeterAUS and some others happy being where you are.

  367. Pavlo says:
    @AP

    The likely scenario is that these will be produced mainly for export, with few ever reaching the Ukrainian forces.

    • Replies: @AP
  368. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    My bet is, the disease will pass, although the recovery will be long and painful:

    Everything passes. But I think it’ll take not less than 2-3 generations and only after denazyfication.
    Look to this AP. He’s uncurable. Especially funny to know that he’s not living in UA.
    You probably have seen him writing “I visited Kiev in 2015 …”. So even those who more or less found a warm place still being nazy morons.
    I pray only that Russians got a vaccination against “brotherhood” for long and “москалей на ножи, кровь москальских немовлят” will be remembered for decades.

    Untill in this quarantine hut everybody gets cured we should just wait.
    Of course it’s not about South-East and Donbass.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  369. yurivku says:
    @Philip Owen

    Me too. 30m2 flat in Saratov cant’be more than 1,000,000rub.
    Your link just confirms that.

    But if your point is that it’s difficult for young people to buy a flat/home – it’s true, I do confirm.
    But seems it’s true everywhere in our capitalistic world?

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  370. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Everything is absolutely clear with UA as whole (more exactly “shithole” (c) Trump) and AP particularly.
    I give you few links which are about UA’s life. Truthful ones (only in Russian, sorry):

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/ author is living in Crimea
    http://varjag2007su.livejournal.com/ author is Uki living in UA
    http://alternatio.org/ author is Uki living in Russia now

  371. yurivku says:
    @peterAUS

    It appears that the “Team Russia” is after Anatoly, full throttle, here.

    It’s probably proves his patriotic origin ;-)
    For me Karlin and you almost the same with relation to Russia’s subject.

  372. yurivku says:
    @peterAUS

    Or they are simply Kremlin trolls and supervisor gave strict orders?

    Not clear who are you addressing to, but I have to confirm. Putin phones me daily and dictates the texts. Please don’t tell this to Mueller!

  373. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Everything is absolutely clear with UA as whole (more exactly “shithole” (c) Trump) and AP particularly.
    I give you few links which are about UA’s life. Truthful ones (only in Russian, sorry):
    author is living in Crimea

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/

    For I lived in UA from my 5 yo to 16th I do follow her life. For the same reason I’ll never forgive Uki’s betrayal.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @Sergey Krieger
    , @AP
  374. @Yevardian

    … seems to centre around video-games, American trash shows and films

    Another emigre with overly Romantic ideas about Russian cultural consumption habits.

  375. yurivku says:
    @yurivku

    For some reason I was not possible to post all three links at once. So I divided post to 3.

    author is Uki living in Russia now

    http://alternatio.org/

    it was 2nd of 3

    • Replies: @yurivku
  376. @Kiza

    Just FTR I have no control over this “yellow privilege” (which Steve Sailer also has).

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  377. yurivku says:
    @yurivku

    Something wrong with this link. Can’t save a post. Now substituted “varjag2007su” by “XXX”

    Replace back before use

    author is Uki living in UA:

    http://XXX.livejournal.com/

    only after that it saved. Some mistics from Mr. UNZ
    No idea why this “varjag…” prohibited is it some sweaword or so?

  378. yurivku says:
    @Pavlo

    This is a story about brave UA soldier who decided to kill few separatists, but got his bullet from sniper and ended up crying. The story is in Russian, but sounds on video should be understandable for anybody

    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4020502.html

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  379. @AnonFromTN

    According to AP traffic jam is a sign of normal life and prosperity instead of poor planning and bad air. Shops and restaurants full of people. As if it was not so during Soviet times before Gorbachov. I notice many try to present private transportation prevalence and traffic jams as sort of progress. I remember reading that Soviet government deliberately was holding back car manufacturing to ensure 4:1 transit vs private transportation ratio which ensured there was no traffic and things were working efficiently. Burning such a valuable and non renewable resource to move 1-2 persons and 2 tons of steel…. It is like burning money. It is also hard for kids to be outdoors and ride bikes the whole days long which lead to host of other problems. Regarding this supposed boom in the western Ukraine. They finally succeeded in killing the host the whole of Ukraine. Now they want out. Basically it is the people who poisoned minds of millions. Even Ukrainians in the east were basically Russians in 70′. Whatever happened it is from Zapadenshina. I remember how they arrived in August 1991 in Dnepropetrovsk in buses to poison minds.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonFromTN
  380. @Kiza

    you did not dwell on my part – that the dill tortures logic and lacks even the most basic skills of reasoning.

    Yeah, well, it’s hard to cover absolutely everything, but I am pretty aware of his frequent lapses in reasoning. I don’t read most of his stuff nowadays, but recently he had an article about what aspects of life were better in Russia than the U.S. I was genuinely curious what he would have to say about that, so I read it.

    One of the things that he said was better in Russia was that locally produced goods (as opposed to imports) were typically quite cheap in Russia compared to the U.S. Well, duhh, sure, of course. This is exactly because wages in Russia are so much lower, so if you are basically buying Russian labor, which is what you are doing when you buy Russian-made goods, they are much less expensive. Duhh…. Of course, those goods are still quite expensive for the Russian people making those low Russian wages… (They’re only cheap if you’re coming from America or West Europe and have dollars or euros…)

    What he was arguing was tantamount to saying that one thing better in Russia was that Russian wages are so low!

    But all that is still pretty minor, compared to the fact that this little shithead still thinks that calling somebody a “9/11 Truther” is some kind of insult. He doesn’t realize that anybody, especially by now, 2018, proclaiming his belief in the official story of 9/11 is openly announcing himself as a pathetic shit eater of the worst sort.

    On this particular conversation, his defense of the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima, say, any real critical thinker would realize that the people rationalizing this (defending the indefensible) have to argue that it was militarily necessary and saved lives. They have to argue this, right? So, what Karlin does is he takes these kinds of conjectures about the atrocity in question “saving lives” as established facts and argues from there. It’s a very corrupted intellectual process.

    Of course, it’s typical of people with weak critical thinking skills that they cannot distinguish between established facts and just storytelling. He takes the official story on 9/11 or any other synthetic terrorist incident, no matter how absurd the story is, and treats it as an established fact. (To be maximally fair, he’s not the only person who does that!)

    But anyway, on the Japan thing, you know, this is the History Channel version of history that every American schoolchild is taught and dutifully believes. He’s never read any real scholarly history of any of it, doesn’t know anything, just regurgitating the standardized bullshit. Well, admittedly, Karlin has a novel twist on it. The Russians who denounce the atrocity of the nuclear bombing of Japan are “cucks” because the bombing was done to save Russian lives! Thus, they denounce this particular genocidal atrocity out of “deranged, bloodthirsty Russophobia” . Maybe we could call things like this KL, “Karlin Logic” .

    In a way, it’s comical, I guess, but it’s also kind of sick.

    I have put an opinion forward to Mr Unz to limit the yellow privilege to article authors only,

    Well, I’m an infrequent contributor, I guess, so I never got what you call “yellow privilege”. (A funny term!) I mean, just under my own articles, not anybody else’s. But I never gave the matter that much thought, I have to admit. The whole thing was never very important to me.

    That said, I think you’re right that there is no reason for “yellow privilege” under an article that one did not write oneself. It makes sense for my comments to be specially highlighted when I am the author of the article, but if I (or anybody else) comments under an article by somebody else, there is no obvious reason why the comment should be specially highlighted.

    So, I agree with you on that, but that said, of the various issues I have with Unz Review, the things that go on here that I object to, the “yellow privilege” issue would be a very minor issue for me.

    • Agree: yurivku
  381. @peterAUS

    It appears that the “Team Russia” is after Anatoly, full throttle, here.

    If you’re lumping me in as part of this “Team Russia”, I should point out that I am not Russian at all really. I just bear a surname that is more or less Russian because my paternal grandfather (whom I never knew) was an Eastern European Jew from what is now Ukraine.

    I don’t think the reason that people are getting pretty openly annoyed at Karlin primarily relates to Russia or Russian-ness really.

    Really, to be blunt, the core problem is that Karlin is an A-1-A ASSHOLE.

    Well, that’s subjective, I admit, but regardless, anybody who thinks that calling somebody a 9/11 Truther or “conspiracy theorist” is some kind of insult is not much of a critical thinker. So, it’s natural that this guy’s pretenses and high self-regard would get on various people’s nerves. It’s not really a Russian thing.

  382. @Anatoly Karlin

    Just FTR I have no control over this “yellow privilege”

    Yes, that is definitely true.

    Of course, your being an utter asshole is probably also something that you have no control over as well.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  383. yurivku says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Anatoly,

    1) what do think about US, UK, Fr, Germany … denouncing Russia’s atrosity in Eastern Ghouta (bombing and shelling)?

    2) Also can you please comment regular “mistakes” of US coalition in Syria?
    For e.x. today

    https://riafan.ru/1030491-siriya-itogi-za-sutki-na-1-marta-06-00-24-mirnykh-zhitelya-deir-ez-zora-pogiblo-pod-ognem-vvs-koalicii-boeviki-obstrelivayut-gumkoridor-v-vostochnoi-gute

    they’ve killed 24 more civilians.
    Probaly it ‘s for defence of some human values and saving lives of Russian soldiers?

    How correspond 1) and 2) ?

    Thank you

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  384. Pavlo says:
    @yurivku

    If I ever take a bullet and shrug it off like a beesting, I’ll laugh at this arsehole.

    Until then I’ll just say that the silly bastard should have stayed at home.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  385. TT says:
    @RadicalCenter

    You are wise to invest in best bet China economy instead of falling for US propaganda war of smearing China is collapsing under debt for past 30yrs. And you can realistically see that Chinese language will be essential for future business usage like English now.

    Many Asians are still foolishly believing sinophobe & collapsing China economy Western msm sewage. They avoid China investment, derogating Chinese language.

    What level is juz enough for containing China within Asia, without turning China peaceful rise into another enemy of US Nato with self inflicted cold/hot war?

    Let’s see what US is doing to all China neighbors now.

    US is aggressively stirring South China Seas tension with whole Asean by overwhelming msm lies to encourage them to illegally rob China’s spratly islands. Fake Hague court judgement conspiracy with court set up by Jap, paid by Philippines. 60% USN stationed in China backyard, doing regular FON intrusion into 12miles to hype tension.

    Push Vietnam to go war with china over spratly, Obama: “any weapons you name it”.

    Forced SK into threaten China security with Thaad missiles, creating tension. Pushing for NK crisis. Heavy military build up at China doorstep with endless large scale war games aiming at who?

    Have India & Japan join its military & economic very hostil AsiaPac containment. Advocate TTP to exclude China from trade. Have aggressive border & island dispute.

    Install a anti-China Mongolia Pres when it 80% trade depend on China, have joint wargaming, to defense against who when it only border with Russia & China?

    Got pro-China biz Thailand Thaksin family continue removed under Janta coup.

    Funded Cambodia opposition against China friendly gov.

    Trying all out to remove pro-China investment Malaysia PM Najib by color revolution, msm smearing, supporting its Muslim extremists opposition meddling its election.

    Stirring anti-China in Myanmar with American voice broadcasting, sponsored Aungsung gov, instigated riots & protests using USAid NGO to force Myanmar canceled many mega projects. Sent in terrorists to sabotage its Obor thru Rohingya crisis.

    Pushing Philippines relentless to war with China over SCS under previous Pres. Then Sabotage new China friendly Pres Dutert with ISIS terrorists, Catholics protest, human rights… China juz finish helping Philippine to liberate one city taken by US terrorists, another group has again declared will come in to take another city.

    Hamstring China friendly Singapore into joining anti-China with existential threat by allowing USN base there to control Malacca Straits. Support SCS disputes.

    Indonesia is been actively stirred to anti-China too, sending navy into China contested 9 line water. Muslim extremists parties are instigating anti-Chinese ethnics now.

    Afghanistan is already under US controlled.

    Laos probably is also under US subversion?

    Under India annexed, Bhutan is not allowed to have foreign contact with China.

    Nepal last gov was under subversion thru India. New pro China gov will be targeted too.

    PAK is under subversion to change its pro-China PM using court judgement. Obor is sabotaged with Chinese engineers been killed.

    The only remain neighbour not yet push to anti-China is Russia, who itself is been pushing into war too by US.

    Let’s see other China trade partners:

    Australia largest trade partner is China, but it gone into hysteria sinophobe. UK is next.

    Sri Lanka Pres Rajapradesh was removed, replaced with pro-US & India Pres, continue to push for anti-China gov.

    Mauritius Pres is under subversion & US/India military threat now after signing FTA with China.

    Endless list. EU, Germany, Brazil, ME, Africa,….are they all stupid to go against their No1 trade partner China without US pushing hand? In Africa, Muslim terrorists killed Russia & China hostage while letting their publicenemy Americans free.

    Every neighbors, every business trade partners, every Obor nodes are under sabotaged.

    Can you see, this is not simple containment to Asia, its an all out EMBARGO Sabotage war to bring down China rising, short from hot war declaration. Will China roll over for another good Opium war rape? You guess.

    China will be stupid not to prepare actively for a possible full scale hot war. 12 PLAN warships with nuke sub are already in Indian Ocean to defense Mauritius under USIndia military threat. SCS is continue under military built up waiting to spark a big scale war. So is NK crisis. India border dispute. Many time bombs tickling.

    China is only country still having multi Megatons yield Nuke warhead H-bombs as deterrent due to its small warheads qty. But Russia last year declare it still have single warhead capable to destroy a France/Texas area. When war breakout, everything let fly into cities….big fireworks. No winner, all lost.

  386. @yurivku

    Why sorry about Russian links? I read Russian sources daily. Before Ukraine gets cured it must go through he’ll of her own making. Eventually Ukraine and bellorussia are Russian territories. Taiwan is not actually as Chinese as ukraine is Russian. I think same people responsible for ussr destruction are guilt of current state of Ukraine and mutual relations. It will take some time. Especially helpful would be for Russia to become an example attractive for others without need to buy allegiance.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  387. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    According to AP traffic jam is a sign of normal life and prosperity instead of poor planning and bad air

    It’s a sign that lots of people have cars and have somewhere to go.

    Does North Korea experience traffic jams?

    I remember reading that Soviet government deliberately was holding back car manufacturing to ensure 4:1 transit vs private transportation ratio which ensured there was no traffic and things were working efficiently.

    LOL, Did they also have a good reason to deliberately withhold neonatal care, housing size, etc.?

    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Gerard2
  388. AP says:
    @yurivku

    LOL, someone believes colonel cassad’s stuff.

    It’s like some Ukrainian nationalists claiming that life in Crimea has become hell on earth.

  389. AP says:
    @Pavlo

    Given the development of its armed forces, it is likely that at least a few of these will be destined for the Ukrainian military. The number will depend on what it wants to do, however. If retaking Donbas in 2020 or later becomes a goal (it will not be goal before then) I would expect a lot of them. Hopefully Ukriane will not want to retake Donbas.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  390. yurivku says:
    @Pavlo

    If I ever take a bullet and shrug it off like a beesting, I’ll laugh at this arsehole.

    Not sure I got it. According to his shouts he didn’t shrug it off, but got it inside.

    Until then I’ll just say that the silly bastard should have stayed at home.

    All those bastards at the western side of Donbass’ border should have stayed at home. But if they hadn’t then they should get a couple of square meters of Donbass’ ground.
    On journal where this video resides there are many interesting materials from there. But they do not correspond with AP’s information, I’m afraid.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  391. @yurivku

    Within capitalistic system these problems will get only worse. Real estate bubbles and so forth making own place unattainable for people. I think right now situation is being still ameliorated by presence of the Soviet era built apartments buildings. Many get them from parents grandparents. My wife sister could only buy own apartment in ekaterinburg thanks to such help and still it is difficult to pay the mortgage. Basically, I believe ussr took really bad turn towards capitalism and suffered socio economic regress which cannot be addressed and resolved within capitalistic approach. Here comes my beef with Putin because he is trying to make this turn permanent.

  392. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Why sorry about Russian links? I read Russian sources daily.

    Sorry for those who can’t read it, not for you ;-)

    Especially helpful would be for Russia to become an example attractive for others without need to buy allegiance.

    Yes, but no “be attractive for them”, but just be good. We had enough parasites. Let them to be independent (nezalejnist ).

  393. @Jonathan Revusky

    Was that really necessary? He’s easily one of the most reasonable bloggers on Unz.

    • LOL: L.K
  394. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Anon from TN
    Tell you what, even in Western Ukraine there are quite a few sane people. Still, for the rest it would serve them right to get out and join Poland. They apparently forgot that in Polish times storefronts in Galicia and Volhynia carried signs “Dogs and Ukrainians prohibited” or “No entrance with dogs or Ukrainians”. Poles called them bydło (for non-Polish speakers, this literally means cattle), and now we all see why. Unfortunately, I don’t think Putin would let Poland have any spoils: he does not give a hoot about justice, he only plays his geopolitical games (quite successfully, if you ask me). Not to mention that shops and restaurants were full in the 1990s in Russia, when pretty much all honest people struggled. Mercedes and BMW cars appeared in Russia in the same period. Key question is, who was in those shops and restaurants, and who drove all those fancy cars.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @polskijoe
  395. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    Anon from TN.
    The way I see it with that “AP” personage, there is no issue of curing, he/she/it is just a paid troll. So, it is likely to follow the traditions and be a ready turncoat (remember, “super-soviet” Tychyna and Sosyura before that served in Petlura’s army). Not that any regime would be strengthened by the traitorous scum like that.
    Look at its posts, they bear every sign of a paid propagandist troll. It totally ignores things that contradict its agenda, like I mentioned state debt of more than $76 billion now (as compared to less then half that in 2013), with total foreign debt going from ~75% GDP in 2013 to 13-135% in 2016-17.

    https://www.focus-economics.com/country-indicator/ukraine/external-debt

    Same source says that consumer prices in Ukraine rose 1.5% in January 2018, as compared to 1% in December 2017 (which is also high).
    Government debt as a percent of GDP doubled after the coup:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/government-debt-to-gdp/forecast

    As far as employment goes, this troll focuses on IT in Lvov, where fewer than 5% of the workforce is in IT, and completely ignores everything else. I happen to know about IT in Lvov: my nephew and his wife are both programmers, used to live in Lvov, ran away to the Netherlands, where they live and work now.
    The other areas of economy are in even worse shape, which explains why millions of Ukrainians work in Poland for meager wages in often awful conditions. According to a study quoted by the weekly Gość Niedzielny in the article Ziemia obiecana (Promised Land) published in the June 18 issue, 35% of Ukrainians employed in Poland work in the building sector, 20% in the catering and food sector, 20% in agriculture, 18% in private households, 10% in wholesale and retail trade and 6% in industry. According to data published by the weekly, the average wage of Ukrainians is less than € 500 / month in the Warsaw metropolitan area, which is the region with the highest wages.
    It also ignores the fact that almost two million Ukrainians have already obtained Polish card (Karta Polaka), which just shows the level of “optimism” in society. There are numerous companies in what is left of Ukraine that for a fee ranging from a few hundred to two thousand dollars produce fake documents “proving” your Polish ancestry.
    The list can be continued, but what’s the point? Honest people know the score, whereas trolls would never acknowledge it: he who pays the musicians calls the tune.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @AP
  396. @utu

    What is fantastic about all this (and which all the history and revealed intelligence documents confirm) is that Japan “sued for peace” (not my choice of phrase) with Stalin and the USSR.

    Not with the United States or Britain.

    The “peace feelers” (again, not my choice of term) are reported to go back as early as October 1944.

    Japan was not at war with Russia until August 9th. So attempting to negotiate surrender with them was beyond ridiculous. And, of course, Stalin was attempting to time everything to get his piece of Japan while having contributed nothing to the Pacific War effort for three-and-a-half years.

    Everybody understood Japan’s delusion at the time.

    It is weird that so many “experts” on history and war here don’t understand it now.

    This is crucial to understanding the USSR’s exclusion from the Potsdam Declaration on July 26th.

    In addition, everybody in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations knew what was happening diplomatically between Toyko and Moscow.

    These were the Magic intercepts.

    https://catalog.archives.gov/id/636254

    Washington knew that the Emperor and the military had no intention of ever surrendering and especially without the home islands being invaded.

    The US military was planning Operation Olympic knowing all this with an expected minimum casualties of 100,000 dead from experience on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

    There was debate among the heads of the different services.

  397. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Yes, it’s very likely. But he makes statements which seem to be out of this theory like ” when I’was in Kiev in 2015 ….”. Troll should play the role of UA citizen…
    They have enough of ideological bastards.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  398. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “No entrance with dogs or Ukrainians”

    Where did you get it from? From Boston about Irish or Jews? And some Ukrainian in Canada thought “That’s handy. We can use it. In Galicia. Yeah, that’s a ticket.” Listen, most of these stories are untrue about Irish and I am sure they are untrue about Ukrainians in Galicia. But people like stories about their victimhood. Look at Jews. It empowers them. Nietzsche was right about slave mentality. This is especially true about Ukrainians, people who were not successful in developing their nationhood and independence.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonFromTN
  399. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    Anon from TN
    He/she/it plays the role of Lvov resident. As Lvov mayor noted when he brought the mayor of Prague to Kiev a year or so ago, he was ashamed to see the state of the capital. As far as I know, it has not improved since. Even the multi-story building near Maidan that Nazis burnt in 2014 remains burnt out. Last time I was in Kiev (about 10 years ago; my cousin and her husband live there), it looked like Moscow in 1998: grandeur disfigured by neglect.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  400. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    Plenty of comments, and some addressed to me.
    Nobody bothered to mention

    …why Donbas hasn’t developed its own, Corps size, combined arms defense force?
    Any particular reason for that?

    Amusing.

    Not important, perhaps?
    Embarrassing?
    Doesn’t line well with the resident “Team Russia” agenda here?

    Now, I do agree that’s a very smart move by the regime in Moscow.
    Is that smart for average people in Donbas could be another matter.

    Just to clarify:
    Novorossiya (confederation) armed forces.
    Something of a visible, known to people there, organized self-defense force.
    Structure, Commanding General, Staff, units……men and equipment. Including air assets (helicopter gunships in particular). A mechanized brigade here, motorized there, tank battalion here, artillery regiment there. AA regiment. Definitely clear cut of support/logistics chain. First echelon, second echelon, village/town/city local defense forces. Even a rudimentary doctrine.
    A……proper………Corps…………with local self-defense forces tightly integrated. Subordinated to the government of Novorossiya.
    A force capable to withstand Ukrainian push for, say, 3 months, at least, without (much) need for RF help.

    Just from public resources:
    “….umbrella name for the militias and armed volunteer groups….
    It consists of the Donbass People’s Militia,[ the Luhansk People’s Militia and autonomous armed groups.”
    This “autonomous armed groups” simply inspires confidence here.

    Not enough resources for that? Yeah….
    Local people there not having enough expertise? Sure……………………..
    Haven’t had enough time for that?Really?

    “Team Russia” has that Putin genius as an explanation.
    Cynics have another.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @Cyrano
  401. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I just trying never talk to svidomyi Uk. Doesn’t matter who is it. Our f.cken tv on talk shows illuminates those every day. Disgusting.
    But seems like tomorrow we’ll talk about Putin’s speach

  402. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The way I see it with that “AP” personage, there is no issue of curing, he/she/it is just a paid troll

    Liar from TN keeps lying.

    You were just caught lying about Poroshnko’s claims:

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-presidential-elections-boring-useless-and-necessary/#comment-2224850

    and you brazenly keep doing it.

    It totally ignores things that contradict its agenda

    I post facts, you post lies. It’s simple.

    with total foreign debt going from ~75% GDP in 2013 to 13-135% in 2016-17.

    As the link shows, foreign debt decreased from 135% of GDP in 2015 to 124% of GDP in 2016.

    So you couldn’t help youself and you lied again.

    consumer prices in Ukraine rose 1.5% in January 2018

    Source says – due to strong consumer spending. Funny how you “forgot” to mention that :-)

    Consumer prices rose 1.5% but wages grew 12% in January 2018:

    https://open4business.com.ua/real-wages-ukraine-12-3/

    Liar from TN tries to turn good news into bad news by using a half-truth.

    I happen to know about IT in Lvov: my nephew and his wife are both programmers, used to live in Lvov, ran away to the Netherlands, where they live and work now.

    Average IT salary of $1,500 in Lviv is great for the post-Soviet space but salaries in western Europe are even higher. So some people move. My cousin in Lviv works in IT and hasn’t left.

    The other areas of economy are in even worse shape

    So liar in TN claims IT in Lviv is in “bad” shape? LOL.

    According to data published by the weekly, the average wage of Ukrainians is less than € 500 / month in the Warsaw metropolitan area, which is the region with the highest wages.

    Warsaw is closer to Kiev than is Moscow. It’s a one day trip. $600 dollar per month wage for a laborer is not bad. It is higher than the average wage in many Russian cities, not to mention Ukrainian ones. Unemployed people have the opportunity to work for a few months while earning these relatively high wages, and support their families with the savings. This decreases Ukaine’s unemployment rate, helping along increases in Ukrainian wages.

  403. AP says:
    @utu

    Where did you get it from? From Boston about Irish or Jews?

    As we have seen, Liar from TN has a habit of making things up.

    Nietzsche was right about slave mentality. This is especially true about Ukrainians, people who were not successful in developing their nationhood and independence.

    Historically Ukraine had the problem of being surrounded by larger and stronger neighbors. In that neighborhood, it isn’t easy to get onto one’s feet when one is down. If Germany and Russia hadn’t both collapsed in 1918, would Poland have regained its statehood?

    The nationalistic parts of Ukraine have developed nicely but the country as a whole been held back by the Soviet parts. Western Ukrainian cities are charming, have low social problems such as crime, drug abuse, have high life expectancy, etc. Here is Ivano-Frankivsk, a provincial city a couple hours east of Lviv (but in Western Ukraine):

    Losing Donbas has been a blessing for the country.

  404. Pavlo says:
    @yurivku

    Point is that screaming like he did is a normal response to being shot, so I’m not going to mock him for it.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  405. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @utu

    Anon from TN
    Come to think of it, I got that from Ukrainian sources. Could be a lie, like the bulk of Ukrainian propaganda. Maybe that’s their way of “justifying” an ugly Jewish pogrom in Lvov in 1941, as well as mass murder of Poles in Volhynia by Ukrainian nationalists, whose leaders served Hitler and who were made heroes in after-coup Ukraine.

  406. Pavlo says:
    @AP

    Retaking Donbass is their goal every year, it’s simply that they’ve no intention of doing it themselves – the plan is to muddle along as they are and hope that American sanctions cause victory to fall into their laps.

    Similar to the Russian government’s overall plan of warding off American aggression while waiting for America to succumb to civilisational GRIDS – only rather less realistic.

  407. yurivku says:
    @Pavlo

    Everybody who is shooting peple should be ready to be shot. I have no pity for him
    They’ve killed more that 200 children already

  408. chris says:
    @yurivku

    Those are some beautiful and huge islands, Yuri! hope you enjoyed the climbes

  409. @yurivku

    Sovcuck incapable of separating objective evaluation of methods vs. sympathy or lack thereof for its practitioners.

    But okay, I’ll humor you.

    1. They can denounce Russian atrocities as much as they want. Sovcucks care about what Westerners say about them – Russians don’t.

    2. I couldn’t care less about dead foreigners, least of all Third Worlders, because I am not a sovcuck.

    Unlike sovcucks, I do however care for the lives of Russians.

    Russian response: The Americans who attacked the Wagner battalion in Deir ez-Zor need an “accidental” “anti-terrorist” cruise missile strike.

    Sovcuck response: Deny it happened; they’re not Russian citizens anyway; just ignore this, mkay.

    Meanwhile, while you whine and cry about Americans killing random Third Worlders, Poroshenko (“best choice of the Ukrainian people” – Putin) continues killing Russians with impunity. You don’t care about that, because you are a sovcuck who worships Putin and the Minsk Agreements. Meanwhile, real Russians ask WTF we’re even doing in Syria so long as Poroshenko and the rest of the Maidanist scum aren’t yet hanging from a gibbet under a white-gold-black flag on the Maidan Nezalezhnosti.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  410. chris says:
    @Cyrano

    Very funny, Cyrano.

    The picture is also very funny because they are all so confident that no one in the “prestitute” corps will expose the scam; they’ve banking on that! (That’s actually scary)

  411. EugeneGur says:
    @peterAUS

    Something of a visible, known to people there, organized self-defense force.
    Structure, Commanding General, Staff, units……men and equipment.

    There are obvious obstacles to the implementation of this excellent idea. First, the absence of such organized army actually proves that the Donbass militia was built from the ground up and is not the Moscow’s military disguised as locals as the West claims.

    The Donbass people in 2014 had a formidable task before them: to build a state from essentially nothing. What Ukraine did at the time when the uprising in Donbass started, even before the military actions, was to pull out all the state structures: local administrations including all documentation; the banks, the post offices, everything. The Donbass leaders had to organize it all in the conditions when they didn’t know how many people were on their territory or what belongs to whom, for they had no record of any kind available to them. Besides, none of them had a foggiest idea how to run a state.

    And yet they had to do all this while organizing something that resembles an army capable of fighting off the Ukrainian Army. Such army was naturally formed as largely independent units aggregated around a leader capable of attracting volunteers and donations. The units defended their home base while serving as the military administration for the territory they controlled. These militia units were responsible for the civilians left on their territory – feeding them, making sure they had heating, evacuating them, etc. The people in the Donbass militia aren’t military; at best, they’ve had some military training having gone through obligatory military service in Russia or Ukraine.

    Sure, Russia could’ve made an army out of these units, and to a significant extent it did. However, there is a limit to what an outside power can do if it doesn’t take over completely. Even in Syria where the Russian involvement is open and more significant, its effect on the Syrian Army’s performance has been limited.

    The reason you asked for: easier said than done. And yeas, 3 years is a very short time for such a deed, and their resources are very limited, both human and economic.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @AP
  412. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    A reasonable post from a member of the “Team Russia” here.
    A pleasant surprise.
    Hope it’ll last for a while.

    There are obvious obstacles to the implementation of this excellent idea

    Definitely.

    First, the absence of such organized army actually proves that the Donbass militia was built from the ground up and is not the Moscow’s military disguised as locals as the West claims.

    No.
    Four years or so now?
    Let’s use an unpopular example here: Bosnian Muslims. Took them 2 years to do that, in those conditions.

    Besides, none of them had a foggiest idea how to run a state.

    Really?
    Man…those Ruskies over there. You sure?
    I mean…..let’s take those pesky Bosnian Muslims again. How did they do that?

    Such army was naturally formed as largely independent units aggregated around a leader capable of attracting volunteers and donations. The units defended their home base while serving as the military administration for the territory they controlled. These militia units were responsible for the civilians left on their territory – feeding them, making sure they had heating, evacuating them, etc. The people in the Donbass militia aren’t military; at best, they’ve had some military training having gone through obligatory military service in Russia or Ukraine.

    You mean there weren’t any officers there of a rank from a Major to a full Colonel? Ex-Russian Army, retired there. Current, at the time, Ukrainian Army, defected to Novorossya. Paramilitary police officers of the similar rank? You sure?
    A surprise. See, those Bosnian Muslims had plenty of those. Am I missing something?

    The reason you asked for: easier said than done.And yeas, 3 years is a very short time for such a deed, and their resources are very limited, both human and economic.

    Aha.
    You mean something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Army_of_the_Republic_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina.

    Scroll down to
    Organization 1992–1994 if you want.

    Let’s assume, for the moment, that you really believe what you’ve written.
    What do you think….are there any other reasons for that……oversight?

  413. polskijoe says:
    @AnonFromTN

    There was apparently a proposition too split Ukraine between Poland and Russia when this new cold war thing started.

    I really wouldnt Bandera types joining part of Poland. While extremists in Ukraine are tiny amount (its same in all Europe), a large portion of West Ukrainians see Bandera positively. So those types can go to hell.

    Just recently a bunch of drunkan Ukrainians and Georgians start beating a guy,
    until another cop shot them in the legs (no target for chest like in US/Canada).
    And thats other whites.

    You can read about Dmowski line if you want and his attitudes. Unfortunetly the Protestant Judaizers (in UK and US) didnt like him.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Aedib
  414. AP says:

    There was apparently a proposition too split Ukraine between Poland and Russia when this new cold war thing started

    I heard this was basically fake news.

    a large portion of West Ukrainians see Bandera positively

    A stupid thing to make a hero of him, but the Bandera they see positively is a mythologcal one, not the real one.

    You can read about Dmowski line if you want and his attitudes.

    Dmowski was Poland’s interwar failure. His movement and Bandera’s fed off each other.

  415. Cyrano says:
    @peterAUS

    “Team Russia” has that Putin genius as an explanation.

    Forget it man. It’s useless to try to make a fan of Putin out of you. Here is a link to a “hero” that you can relate to. I hope that your biography ends similarly to this hero of yours that I am sending you a link of.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vjekoslav_Luburi%C4%87

    • LOL: bluedog
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  416. AP says:
    @EugeneGur

    First, the absence of such organized army actually proves that the Donbass militia was built from the ground up and is not the Moscow’s military disguised as locals as the West claims

    I’m not sure the claims that the Donbas military is simply Russian military in disguise are that widespread. Some claim there were thousands of Russian servicemen helping the rebels but that is different.

    The Donbass people in 2014 had a formidable task before them: to build a state from essentially nothing.

    And they were faced with an enemy with no usable regular army, that at the time itself depended largely on totally inexperienced enthusiastic volunteers.

    The people in the Donbass militia aren’t military; at best, they’ve had some military training having gone through obligatory military service in Russia or Ukraine.

    At least 10% of them were Russian volunteers. Many of these were Chechen war vets.

    The Donbass leaders had to organize it all in the conditions when they didn’t know how many people were on their territory or what belongs to whom, for they had no record of any kind available to them. Besides, none of them had a foggiest idea how to run a state.

    Donbas Deputy PM Vladimir Antyfeyev was not a native, but a Russian citizen with a history of setting up the Russian-backed republic in Transnistria:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Antyufeyev

    There was plenty of Russian help, it wasn’t simply plucky locals making it on their own.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  417. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @polskijoe

    Anon from TN
    Maybe it would be true justice to return Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Slovakian, and Romanian pieces of the monster to their rightful owners and leave “Ukraine” in the borders it had under Khmelnitsky when it joined the Russian Empire (BTW, the initiative was Khmelnitsky’s, Russian tsar thought about it for seven years, and in the end did not want the whole responsibility, so he gathered Veche of prominent citizens to decide). Then Poles would have to deal with Bandera followers and the rest of the Nazi scum of Western Ukraine (Kresy Wschodnie in Polish). Pretty much all the neighbors (except maybe Slovakia) are ready to pounce on the corpse.
    However, there is no such thing as justice in history. My bet is that in the end Putin would be the defender of Ukrainian territorial integrity, if he manages to do it on his terms, which include debt write off (if Russia is saddled with humongous Ukrainian debt, Russian people would hang him). We’ll see soon enough, the monster does not have much lifetime left, no matter what propagandists of the current regime say.

  418. Aedib says:
    @polskijoe

    Just hot ideas from some forums. Reality is that neither Russia nor Poland are interested on this outcome. AP’s numbers are quite accurate and reliable. Ukraine will exist in the current shape (Current Ukraine = 2013 Ukraine – Crimea – Donbass) for the foreseeable future. Putin isn’t even interested in taking Donbass, so, LNDR will exist in the current “Abkhazia on steroids” state also for the foreseeable future.
    There is a considerable percentage of people on the south and the east that are resentful with the current regime but that people is not interested in taking arms and go to war, Donbassians style. In the end the country reached a metastable equilibrium. I can’t see a big crash and also I can’t see a vigorous growth. A Brezhnevian stagnation is the most likely prognosis.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @polskijoe
  419. peterAUS says:
    @Cyrano

    Glad you barged it. You did omit mentioning a certain combination of my mother and non-consensual sex, but I am sure you’ll remedy that soon.

    But, while we are on the topic of Novorsya, this

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Serbian_Krajina

    with

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm

    probably, sounds………resonating?

    Let’s summarize:
    An attempt to carve up an independent entity from a recognized state->check.
    An all knowing Great Leader managing all that->check
    Local armed forces tightly integrated and controlled, unofficially, of course, with the “Big Brother”->check.
    All attempts by local leadership people to enhance their independence from the Great Leader and the “Big Brother” cut down (incidents, arrests, unsolved murders)->check
    A strong belief of the local population that, should SHTF, the Great Leader will step in with his great army and crush the attacker->check.
    Ah, yes, the same core values and common religion->check.
    I could go on but I am sure even you’ll get this.

    Very…..promising….for people in Novorossya. Very, indeed.

    Awaiting your response; I trust you won’t leave my mother out of it.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  420. Vidi says:
    @AP

    According to AP traffic jam is a sign of normal life and prosperity instead of poor planning and bad air

    It’s a sign that lots of people have cars and have somewhere to go.

    Does North Korea experience traffic jams?

    Haiti, one of the poorest countries in the world, has lots of traffic jams too, like this one:

    This jam took two hours to clear, and it’s not unusual in the least.

    I think your view of life in Kiev is more than somewhat too optimistic.

    • Replies: @AP
  421. AP says:
    @Aedib

    I can’t see a big crash and also I can’t see a vigorous growth. A Brezhnevian stagnation is the most likely prognosis.

    There has been modest growth for the last 2 years and there will continue to be modest growth for a few more years (projected to be 3% or so in 2018), at least. It should be back to where it was in 2013 (in terms of PPP, not nominal), in 2019. The question is whether it will end up stagnating at this Yanukovich-era level, or if it will continue to improve. Yanukovich was a dead-end, with things being different now there is an opportunity for new results so I think there are good odds for ongoing improvement, though probably corruption will limit the pace and prevent a dramatic breakout. But who knows?

  422. AP says:
    @Vidi

    Here’s driving around Kiev (no traffic jams) this year during Christmas holidays, the weather is dreary but the city hardly looks desperate:

    • Replies: @Vidi
  423. Cyrano says:
    @peterAUS

    If I was you I wouldn’t gloat too much about “successes” of your s**ty country. Don’t forget that it’s located in the Balkans – as much as you delude yourself that you are part of some kind of great European civilization – because of being members of the pedophile sect.

    Nothing is permanent in the Balkans – just wait for the next round and the chance for the old scores to be settled.

    And keep working on changing your language – it’s too Serbian at the moment – maybe ask the Slovenians to let you use their language so you can distance yourself from people whose language you use and yet you are “culturally superior” to them.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  424. peterAUS says:
    @Cyrano

    Wow….no mention of my mother.
    You appear to be improving your communication skills, somehow.
    Congrat.

    But, you did, for some reason, omit that comparison between Novorossya and Krajina.
    Especially related to armed forces there. Or, better, lack of those, actually.

    I am aware that the “Team Russia” of proper Russian ethnic origin would have hard time getting that.
    They tend to think…..big. Serbia, Krajina…that’s too small for them. Irrelevant type of small even.

    But…you…..and your ilk…now, that’s……interesting?
    Like “some people never learn” type of interesting.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  425. Dmitry says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Well if I want to read an expert, or a qualified person’s opinion – then I will read a book or a real article academic journal.

    Bloggers like this are just some commentators on a website, which can be followed for entertainment.

    In this case, the advantage is that it gives you the chance to interact and post a response of comment, and discuss with the other people in the audience. Most of us are here to post our own opinion, not more.

    It not more serious than posting under a YouTube video – it is a form of entertainment, not something that is factually checked by anyone. And the blogger just finds entertaining material to amuse the audience.

    If you want a serious or factual information, then you can go to the library and can read the real books.

  426. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    It’s a sign that lots of people have cars and have somewhere to go.

    Does North Korea experience traffic jams?

    errr WTF is this constant insecure braindead crap?…Does that idiotic attention-whore nonsense make any sense? .Russia has at least 50% higher level of car ownership than Ukraine you dumb fucktard!…and that’s even with car ownership in Russia quite low compared to many other countries. It’s a bit like Russia having a considerably higher level of internet connectivity than Ukraine….even though it’s a million times easier for Ukraine to set-up a higher level of internet connectivity

    Lose your anonymity and it’s obvious that a deranged moron as you are, would definitely kill yourself

  427. Cyrano says:
    @peterAUS

    What do you think my “ilk” is, bud? And don’t let your imagination run wild – you know you are too stupid for that.

    In the meantime, I’ll tell you little bit about your “ilk”. You think you are apple of the eye for the Germans – because you are Catholics – which almost negates all the “negative connotations” of being Slavs.

    Why don’t you ask the Polish – who are as much Catholics as you are, and whether that did them any good when they were assessed for slaughter in WW2 by the same Germans.

    But of course, no one can equal your Catholicism, you are so special. Just for your sake I wish the Germans won WW2 so you could have seen what awaited you few years down the road.

    You would have found out how “special” you are to the Germans and what they think of your nationality and your Catholicism. I am putting 2 and 2 together for you – because you are too stupid to do that yourself. Don’t you dare talk about my ilk, you stupid imbecile.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  428. Seraphim says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Some (quite long) time ago I was explained the meaning of the university degrees in science:
    BS – Bull Shit
    MS – More Shit
    PHD- Pile Head Deep.

    I can’t work it out for Humanities.

    • Replies: @Anon
  429. yurivku says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I’ve discovered you being asshat quite a time ago. The question was – what kind? Firstly I thought like Andrei Martyanov that you are of Gessen type – liberast. but now I see that you are asshat of rare type -
    liberal-nationalist-judophile-russian patriot.

    Don’t think these could be mixed so your imperial patriotism seem to me being histrionic. You require to shut down Russia Insider for publication of:

    http://www.unz.com/article/its-time-to-drop-the-jew-taboo/?highlight=taboo

    it’s very liberal of Gozman type.
    And you are approving US atrocities anywhere it’s quite liberal of Gessen/Albright type.
    But you said something of defending Russians everywhere including Donbas – it’s not liberal.
    I guess who actually you are going to unite with?

    Real Russian liberasts always approve US’s atrocities and always finding those in Russia’s affairs despite there are no of them.
    So you are flawed liberast or just lier and all your Russian patriotism is in writing how cheap it is to live here if you have income from there.
    Shortly an asshat

    PS:

    while you whine and cry about Americans killing random Third Worlders, Poroshenko (“best choice of the Ukrainian people” – Putin) continues killing Russians with impunity. You don’t care about that, because you are a sovcuck who worships Putin and the Minsk Agreements.

    If you read what I wrote about UA, Putin you wouldn’t say that. It’s not about me.
    As a “sovcuck” (BTW I’ve no idea what it means. Clear something bad related to USSR, but what exactly?) I’m not about Putin, he’s not my hero.
    But what about you, it’s interesting how do you see Donbass liberation, recovery, absorbtion?
    Who will pay for that? Where money will go from? Don’t you afraid ZUS impose such sanctions that you’ll lose all your western toys and sources of an income together with ability to run out of your lovely Russia? I’m not, I’m sovcuck used to difficulties. But you just a pampered piece of shit, don’t think you can stand any. Are you ready to fight for your ideals? Think no, think you’ll say it’s not your war, but sovcucks’ as you alredy said of Syrian.
    Luckily we have many of majors Filipovs and just a few asshats as you.

  430. TT says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I just don’t trust them to be kind or fair to any of us, as they grow far more powerful than us. Not by a long shot. I certainly think they will need to be actively contained to Asia, broadly construed, and deterred beyond that.

    This mentaily is what use to justify Russophobe & Sinophobe. After all these existential “containment”, how can one expect Russia or China to be kind or fair to any of you? Russians is still paying their blood in Ukraine & Syria. Soon will be Chinese blood when HK, Taiwan, Tibets, Xinjiang(already) independent subversion is activated, also their investment sabotage in Philippine, Mauritius, Venezuela, Iran, NK, PAK, Mongolia, Myanmar, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Africa…

    RT: Think about that. The risk of world annihilation and the grotesque waste of human resources could easily be solved, if only Washington would engage in peaceful diplomacy with the rest of the world. The underlying reason for why
    this does not happen —American-desired hegemony — is why Washington stands
    condemned.

  431. TT says:

    And here the two brothers Russians & Ukrainians are bickering among themselves, forgetting who has started the $5B Maidan fire to divide them. The arsonist is laughing reading it.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  432. Yevardian says:
    @yurivku

    Neoliberal-white-nationalist-techno-utopian-pop-culture-fascist-chic-nihilist perhaps?

    • Replies: @yurivku
  433. yurivku says:
    @Yevardian

    Neoliberal-white-nationalist-techno-utopian-pop-culture-fascist-chic-nihilist perhaps?

    Perhaps. You can add homophobic as well. Which is not a liberal either ;-)
    But not white-nationalist but Russian-nationalist for pretending for

    be imperial flag waver.
    So eclectic asshat.

  434. yurivku says:
    @TT

    And here the two brothers Russians & Ukrainians are bickering among themselves, forgetting who has started the $5B Maidan fire to divide them.

    You right, last barrel of fuel and a spark to it ZUS did. But it was enough fuel before this.
    All these Mazepa, Bandera, Petlura already did their betrayals. The history of UA is a history of traitors.
    The people in UA were prepared to think they are special, having unique history and culture and so on.
    Even in Soviet times, when I was young child and lived in western UA for my father was Soviet officer transmitted there after 2 years in East Germany, I felt the hate from some Uki schoolmates and few times was fighting up to blood when insulted for being Russian (москаль).

    Austrians and Germans did a lot to prepare this during WW1 times.
    Partly it was because of stupid Bolsheviks policy when they tried to exagerate national feelings even for those people who actually were western Russians. Khrushev and Crimea… It was prepared and should have happened sooner or later. In some aspects it is good because the abscess must break through in order to cure.
    But people…in Donbass already more than 200 children were killed, how many civilian we can only imagine, but clear the number will have five zeros at end.
    And yes, the more Slav’s blood shed out the better for those arsonists.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @TT
  435. AP says:
    @yurivku

    All these Mazepa, Bandera, Petlura already did their betrayals. The history of UA is a history of traitors

    .

    Kosciuszko, uprising of 1863, uprising of 1831, and of course Pilsudski – all did their “betrayals.” History of Poland is a history of traitors.

    Or, Poles, like Ukrainians/Little Russians, simply aren’t Russians, and their incorporation into Russia was bound to result in constant friction.

    But you are too dumb to figure that out. Or maybe you finally have, and wish that Russia will leave Ukraine alone?

    And you forgot to add Khmelnytsky to the list of “traitors.” At the time of his death he was already planning to switch to a Swedish alliance.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  436. polskijoe says:
    @Aedib

    Yes. I acknowledged thats APs numbers on ancestry were right, in a second post.

    I would bet the majority of Poles or elites dont want partition of Ukraine.

    As for Donbass, I see it like Putin wants maybe UN involvement? Not sure how that would work (someone explain)…

    I do think Crimea will remain Russian though. That is unlikely to change.

  437. TT says:
    @yurivku

    Our Ukrainian brothers & sisters are paying their blood for ZUS Empire hegemony. Indeed its strange that Kiev is able to slaughter their own kins in Donbass without guilt.

    Its a war cannot be won, as West Ukrainian will not sacrifice their lifes for immoral war but still can’t give up, while Donbass people is defending for existence with no option. Russia should absorbed Donbass for “humanity” like Crimea.

    All for the sins of last few nations Russia, China, Iran, NK, Venezuela, Cuba in not willing to subjugate under mighty US Empire. So the word Containment – US Arts of Aggression for their moron people’s ear sound so morally right.

    Greed is the root of all evils – The Buddha. Quote from India Theravada Buddhism.

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/418020-us-nuclear-pentagon-russia/

    In the latest NPR one quote (page30) stands out: “Russia is not the Soviet Union and the Cold War is long over. However, despite our best efforts to sustain a positive relationship, Russia now perceives the United States and NATO as its principal opponent and impediment to realizing its destabilizing geopolitical goals in Eurasia.” Aside from the flagrant deceit over US and NATO encirclement of Russia, again it is noteworthy how vague accusations are somehow made into a sinister threat. The NPR surely ought to say what Russia’s supposedly “destabilizing geopolitical goals in Eurasia” are, but doesn’t. So are we to believe that Russia’s economic integration with China and other Eurasian neighbors is an illegitimate ambition? Is Russia’s move towards replacing the American dollar in bilateral trade with China immoral? Arguably, such moves are threatening to US hegemony. But they are not acts of war in any reasonable definition. That’s the thing. It is obvious that Washington is construing political and economic changes in the world — the tendency toward a multipolar order — as a mortal threat to its unipolar ambitions. For Washington, this threat is being transposed into military terms. The problem is not foreign “enemies;” the problem is Washington’s warmongering.

  438. Vidi says:
    @AP

    Is that the best you can find? The city in the following video is not nearly as comatose as Kiev:

    Addis Ababa, the capital of Ethiopia, looks about the same and in some respects seems better — even though Ethiopia, Africa, is one of the poorest countries in the world.

    You’ll have to do better if you want to show that Kiev isn’t almost dead.

  439. Gerard2 says:
    @yurivku

    liberal-nationalist-judophile-russian patriot

    Very interesting comment

  440. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    Kosciuszko, uprising of 1863, uprising of 1831, and of course Pilsudski – all did their “betrayals.” History of Poland is a history of traitors.

    Or, Poles, like Ukrainians/Little Russians, simply aren’t Russians, and their incorporation into Russia was bound to result in constant friction.

    But you are too dumb to figure that out. Or maybe you finally have, and wish that Russia will leave Ukraine alone?

    And you forgot to add Khmelnytsky to the list of “traitors.” At the time of his death he was already planning to switch to a Swedish alliance.

    [Comments containing too many slurs and profanities are unlikely to be published, and commenters who engage in that behavior may have their other comments trashed as well.]

  441. peterAUS says:
    @Cyrano

    Interesting reply.
    First, again, congrats for, still, not mentioning my mother and gang rape in one sentence.
    Still.

    Not one word about lack of feasible armed forces of Novorossiya.
    One.

    You do remember, or better, your father/grandfather probably, how all that worked (NOT) with that Krajina thing.
    Similarities with Novorossiya are…….interesting?

    I know why the resident “Team Russia” has no reasonable explanation for that. But you…now, that is interesting.

    Now, to be honest, no, I don’t think the next “flare up” will be of “Operation Storm” type.
    It will be of “Maslenica” type. Then, next one of “Medak” type. Then…well…ask your elders how that worked.
    And…all the time….waiting for The Great Leader to deliver. Waiting….waiting….until that episode in August ’95.

    Actually, everybody wins with “reintegration” of Novorossiya into Ukraine.

    Russian oligarchs can continue to spend billions in West.
    Russian masses will buy, out of desperation, anything that media tell them. A bit of visible relaxing of sanctions to benefit a common man will help too.
    And Kremlin can clamp on some uncomfortable dissent with ease.

    “Team Putin”, from Novorossiya, gets nice positions in Russia itself.
    Top 20 % of people there will be capable enough to make even better living in Russia proper and even abroad. Looking forward, personally, for more chat partners while fishing.
    Masses, those 80 %, will take it as stoic Russian souls always have and just keep toiling away.

    The true and only losers will be, as always, in this order:
    True patriots and idealists there.
    Elderly.
    Children.

    Nobody cares about those, of course.

    Just ask your father. Or, better, grandfather, judging from your posts.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  442. EugeneGur says:
    @AP

    I’m not sure the claims that the Donbas military is simply Russian military in disguise are that widespread.

    Haven’t you heard multiple statements from the Ukrainian leadership that Ukraine is fighting the Russian Army in Donbass and not the locals? It’s been repeated ad nauseum. The Russian Army means the Russian active duty military, not volunteers, not simply Russian citizens but actual soldiers under the Russian military command. At least, that’s the customary meaning.

    At least 10% of them were Russian volunteers. Many of these were Chechen war vets.

    Nobody ever denied that that there were plenty of Russian volunteers, and many of these volunteers had some military training/experience. You do know that Russia has draft, and many of so called Chechen war vets were simply drafter soldiers on their round of duty. Don’t forget that the Ukrainian volunteer units also had “Chechen war vets’, either volunteers of mercenaries, only they fought on the other side. As I said, the Donbass militia was initially a ragtag groups of men hastily self-organized from locals to oppose the Ukrainian Army.

    Perhaps, the Ukrainian Army wasn’t in much better shape but it did have an advantage of numbers, the territory, the weapons and equipments, however poorly functioning, and of the state, however poorly operational, with the control of the key infrastructure, behind them. Donbass at the time, in 2014-2015, had none of that.

    There was plenty of Russian help, it wasn’t simply plucky locals making it on their own.

    Yes, luckily, there was Russian help – otherwise, they wouldn’t have survived, literally. It was also largely humanitarian, because the primary concern was to ensure the survival of the population, something that Ukraine didn’t bother about. To provide gas, electricity, water, food, medicines – even soap to orphanages and retirement homes.

    • Replies: @AP
  443. Cyrano says:
    @peterAUS

    Forget about all that. Tell me why do you still use Serbian language, man. You’ve been trying to artificially twist that language out of shape for 70 years at least, and all you could manage was to switch to Latin alphabet. Even if you switch to Arabic – it’s still the same language.

    The Serbs should charge you royalty fees for letting you use their language. I mean look at the Ukrainians, as stupid as they are, at least they managed to put together some rudimentary “Ukrainian” language by cannibalizing the Russian. You morons are not capable of even doing that.

    And yet you like to boast of some kind of “high” culture. What kind of high culture do you have when you don’t even have your own language? And I told you before, don’t gloat about your military “successes” in the 90’s. Sooner or later, you’ll pay for your crimes.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  444. @yurivku

    Russia’s not that cheap to live if you want reliable health care for long term conditions. And, who trusts private medicine. Private sector doctors are there to push treatments on you. Cardio-vascular is improving from a low base. I am happy to rely on local emergency medicine but paying regularly for pills is another question. So, I take out extra prescriptions in the UK when I go to stay in Russia.

  445. @Gerard2

    And still you support the Ulster Protestants of Ukraine, the planted settlers. Some Fenian you are. Or are you a plant by the UVF?

    Russian was an official language in the Donbass provinces. The issue was the right of the Russian officials in Donbass to correspond with Kiev in Russian rather than Ukrainian. (A right that still hasn’t been implemented between Wales and London). Ordinary public life in Donbass was more often conducted in Russian than Ukrainian. I discussed this issue with refugees from Lugansk who came to Cardiff in 2014, Lugansk and Cardiff having been twin cities in Soviet times. They were mostly Russian speaking, ethnic Russians even, public officials. (Ethnic Ukrainians found promotion to Kiev, clever Russians stayed in the Donbass). They were relaxed about the opportunities to conduct their lives in Russian.

  446. peterAUS says:
    @Cyrano

    Forget about all that.

    You mean the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Croatia?
    The unwillingness of international community (read West) to even pretend to protect them against the opponent?
    Their selling out, by The Great Leader for, just briefly, extending his hold on power?
    Their treatment, after the expulsion, in ‘homeland” in Serbia proper?
    Vae victis for sure.

    The collapse of their defense, in 24 hours, because the top leadership, all from Serbia proper, simply left their positions and fled to Serbia proper, leaving troops and people to themselves?
    The broken promise by The Great Leader, that should the opponent try anything, the Mighty Military of Serbia proper will crush it?

    Hahaha…….oh man.

    Ah, and last but not least, when some smart people there did try to organize something on their own, not really trusting The Great Leader with their life and lives of their families, a couple of “things” happened and, voila…no more of those “independent” ideas.

    Sounds familiar re Novorossya?
    “Just…trust….The…Great….Leader”.
    “You…can…not….get….your…own…defense….force”.

    I know that Ruskies don’t get all that.
    But, you….hahaha……

    Good.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  447. Cyrano says:
    @peterAUS

    Obviously you want to draw some parallels between Ukraine and Croatia and Russia and Serbia. What you don’t realize – you stupid Croat monkey- is that Croatia is nowhere near as important as Ukraine and Serbia’s capabilities are nowhere near those of Russia. But don’t worry, you’ll be taken care of, both you and Ukraine.

  448. AP says:
    @EugeneGur

    Haven’t you heard multiple statements from the Ukrainian leadership that Ukraine is fighting the Russian Army in Donbass and not the locals?

    There is a difference between the idea of Ukraine fighting the Russian army in the Crimean scenario (i.e., the Donbas “rebels’ are mostly Russian troops in disguise) and the idea that there were a few thousand regular Russian troops among the thousands of locals. Ukrainian propaganda was mostly pushing the latter idea (which was wrong, but not fantastically so – there were probably a few hundred Russian regulars, lent during critical battles, not to mention military advisers, trainers, etc.)

    Nobody ever denied that that there were plenty of Russian volunteers, and many of these volunteers had some military training/experience. You do know that Russia has draft, and many of so called Chechen war vets were simply drafter soldiers on their round of duty.

    Correct, and such people, with real tough combat experience, were far more valuable than were Ukrainian conscripts or volunteers.

    Don’t forget that the Ukrainian volunteer units also had “Chechen war vets’, either volunteers of mercenaries, only they fought on the other side.

    This number was pretty small.

    Perhaps, the Ukrainian Army wasn’t in much better shape but it did have an advantage of numbers, the territory, the weapons and equipments, however poorly functioning, and of the state, however poorly operational, with the control of the key infrastructure, behind them

    Numerical advantage was meaningless because Ukraine’s small army was spread across the country and had somehow guard the Crimean frontier, the Russian border – it couldn’t all be sent to Donbas. I suspect there wasn’t a huge numerical advantage in Donbas, certainly not one large enough to overcome whatever the attack/defense ratio ought to be.

    Also, in 2014, no one knew the loyalty of Ukraine’s troops or officers. Russia-friendly officers in Ukraine’s armed forces would warn the “enemy” of actions in advance. Ukraine, in essence, had no military in 2014.

    Yes, luckily, there was Russian help – otherwise, they wouldn’t have survived, literally.

    The rebels taking up arms? Probably not – or they would have retired to Crimea. As for the massive Russian assistance (yes, it was massive even if not to the extent as Ukrainian propagandists claim)..

    Russia had three options, and chose the bloodiest one:

    1. Do nothing, Ukraine eventually takes over, probably a few hundred casualties, a few hundred or even a thousand or two arrests, a few thousand activists flee for Russia, place becomes peaceful like Kharkiv.

    2. Russia invades and annexes, as in Crimea, or sets up a friendly Republic with massive Russian troop presence that Ukraine would be afraid to attack.. Few casualties, several thousand Ukrainians leave.

    3. Provide enough help to prevent Ukraine from walking in, but keep the war going. Ten thousand dead, so far, 100,000s refugees.

  449. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Seraphim

    On a not quite strict parallel:
    BA – Bad Attitude
    MA- More Attitude
    PhD – Phony Doctor

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