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Russian Presidential Elections: Boring, Useless and Necessary?
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As the Presidential elections in Russia are drawing near I am amazed to see how much interest this event is generating in spite of the fact that it sure seems to me that this will be an incredibly boring and, frankly, totally useless event.

But first, full disclosure: I don’t have much faith in the so-called “democratic process”. Just look at the EU and tell me: do you really believe that the people in power represent the will and interests of the people who, supposedly, elected them? There are exceptions, of course, Switzerland is probably one of the comparatively most democratic countries out there, but mostly what we see is that western democracies are run by gangs of oligarchs and bureaucrats who have almost nothing in common with the people they are supposed to represent. As for the US, for decades now every time the people voted for “A” they always got “non-A” as a result. It is almost comical.

So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power. Putting it differently, the “democratic process” is the device by which the real and hidden rulers of the world (or “worldwide behind the scenes powers“, to use the expression of Ivan Il’in), legitimize their power and prevent their overthrow. This is the same technique followed by used car dealerships when they place tens, sometimes, hundreds of US flags on their lots before a car sale: it’s just a basic trick to induce the ‘correct’, patriotic, state of mind.

This is also the reason why there are elections every 4 years in the US: the more illegitimate and despotic any putatively “democratic” regime is, the more often it will organize elections to, so to speak, “increase the dose” of patriotically-induced stupor in its people and give them the illusion that the regime is legitimate, their opinion matters and all is well.

Finally, when needed, slogans such as “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others” are used to put to sleep those who might have doubts. In terms of real people power “democracies” are probably the least truly democratic regimes imaginable simply because they are by far the most capable of hiding who really runs the country and where their real centers of power are. Do I really need to add that the worst kind of “democracy” is the capitalist one? You disagree? Then why do you think that Mayer Amschel Rothschild allegedly declared “Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!“? Nowhere is the concentration of capital easier to achieve than in a society which makes it possible for the real ruling class to hide its power behind a screen of electoral farces.

Russia’s modern “democracy” fits into this mold very nicely and the upcoming elections are a perfect example of that. But here I need to make another disclaimer: if judged superficially, just by the usual set of legalistic, external, criteria, Russia is a real democracy: there is freedom of speech in Russia, plenty of elections, you can criticize Putin or any other politician to your heart’s content, when journalists are murdered (which happens), it is never on the Kremlin’s orders (simply because the Kremlin does not need them dead). The Russian media is infinitely more diverse (and interesting!) then the dull propaganda machine called “the media” in the West. And even harsh critics of the government (like, say, Maksim Shevchenko) do get positions in various official human rights monitoring bodies, etc. In reality, Russia is far more democratic than most western countries.

So what is wrong with this rosy picture?

What is wrong is that this is all a farce, a facade, every bit as fake as western democracies are. But in a very different, uniquely Russian, way.

For one thing, there is no real opposition in Russia. Oh sure, Zhirinovsky has been in politics for years and delivering his unique mix of very sound and truthful ideas and utter, idiotic nonsense. ”Zhirik” (as he is called in Russia) is really a court jester, whose role is to amuse but also often say things which others don’t have the courage to say. By the way, regardless of crazy nonsense he regularly spews, the man is very intelligent and well educated and when he acts like a clown he is fully aware of it (you can even see his laughing eyes when he offloads some particularly offensive and outrageous comment). Zhirik and his “Liberal Democratic” (I kid you not!) party is basically the ideal “Kremlin-approved” pseudo-opposition which gets a lot of people who otherwise might feel really disgusted with Kremlin politics to vent, go vote, and then basically support Putin even if they don’t realize it. Zhirik and his LDRP are also very useful to harshly criticize, ridicule and discredit the pro-US “liberals” (in the Russian meaning of the word) whom I refer to as “Atlantic Integrationists”. Next, comes the Communists.

The Russian Communists are a pathetic bunch, really. I wish the English speaking audience could listen to how their longtime leader, Gennady Zyuganov, speaks: he even sounds like an old Soviet Politburo member. The Russian Communists have, for many years now, been a completely reactionary and fossilized party: mostly they peddle Soviet-era nostalgia, minus the Gulag, of course, and with a new and fantastically hypocritical respect for religion. If Zhirik is a least really funny, Zyuganov will bore you to tears! So for these elections, the Russian Communists did something really weird: they chose to back an outsider, Pavel Grudinin, who is as much a real communist as Barak Obama was a real democrat. I guess their stupid plan was to show something akin to a 21st-century version of “Communism with a human face”, except for this time the face looks strikingly similar to Charlie Chaplin.

ORDER IT NOW

But don’t completely dismiss the Communists quite yet. For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics. Putin gets away with this by two simple tricks: a) his superb foreign policy b) by deflecting most criticisms on Medvedev. Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.

I have often made the case that culturally Russia is not, and has never been, European in any meaningful sense of the word. This is particularly true in the typically Russian mix of, on one hand, contempt for the accumulation of wealth and individualism and, on the other, the Russian fixation on the notion of moral justice. Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers. The traditional Russian culture, which has never undergone anything resembling the western Renaissance or Reformation, has retained a social ethos which is much closer to Middle-Eastern Islam or Asian Confucianism than to the western values of the so-called “Age of Enlightenment”. And while Marxism-Leninism was clearly an ideological import, it found in Russia a much more fertile ground for its values than the “enlightened” Masonic values imposed upon the Russian society by the westernized Russian elites, often with a great deal of violence, during the 18th- 20th centuries. There is a reason why nobody followed Kerensky and his Masonic gang while the Bolsheviks did get a lot of support from the people in spite of their rabid hatred for religion and their russophobia.

Thus, a full 750 years after Saint Alexander Nevsky spoke his famous words “God is not in force, but in truth” we saw, Danila Bagrov, the hero of the famous movie “Brother 2″, say this in his now famous monologue with a prototypical US capitalist “tell me, American, wherein is strength? Is it in money? My brother also says that it is in money. And you have a lot of money, and so what? I think that real strength is in the truth – he who has the truth is the stronger one!“. What we are dealing with here is what Ivan Solonevich used to call the “national dominant” – a core component of the identity, worldview, and ethos of a nation. Seventy years of Bolshevism, followed by a decade of “democratic” capitalism did definitely manage to damage and diminish this “national dominant”, but it is still here and its political and social potential is still immense. This is why “Leftist” parties should never be completely dismissed in Russia: Russia will always be a country drawn to social, “Leftist”, collectivist values and ideas.

Back to reality now: Grudinin is as far away from Saint Alexander Nevsky or Danila Bagrov as can be and the so-called “Left” in Russia is as uninspiring and sterile as it is in the West. But if 70 years of obnoxious Bolshevik mismanagement have not managed to discredit the collectivist and social values inherent in the Russian people, neither will one really bad choice for a presidential election.

Still, the sad reality today is that the Russians don’t have a real, truly socialist, candidate to vote for. If Zirik is a right-wing jester, then Grudinin is left-wing fake.

And yet, even being the fake that he is, Grudinin is enough of an irritant (not a threat, that is overstating the case) that the Russian state media has now clearly embarked on a Grudinin-bashing campaign (which he richly deserves, but nonetheless). We should never forget here that the Communists did win the 1996 elections (which Eltsin stole with the full support of the West, the same West which also supported Eltsin using tanks in 1993 to kill thousands of people in a democratically elected parliament). That was a long time ago, but what I think is that this still shows that there still is a large potential voting base for Communists in Russia, but only if the Communists presented a credible candidate. Speaking of which, while Zyuganov himself looks like an old stuffed Politburo relic, there are much smarter young Communists in Russia, just as some younger LDPR members also look pretty sharp. But here is the crux of the problem: the Kremlin clearly has enough power to make darn sure that all those whom the Russians get as a “choice” are either court jesters or fakes. So while the democratic form is respected, the substance is entirely missing.

Next, there are what we could call “all the others” (Sobchack, Iavlinsky, Baburin, Suraikin, Titov). Just forget about them, they basically don’t exist. Some (Baburin) are better than others (Iavlinksy), but the reality is that they are all irrelevant.

And then there is Da Man, The Boss, the Ubercandidate who crushes everybody just by his presence and who will easily win yet another term: Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. Compared to Putin, all the others look like confused kindergarteners playing pretend politics in the electoral sandbox allotted to them. Now, I am a self-confessed Putin-fanboy and I am very happy that he is in power. But that does not mean that I should kid myself, or anybody else, about all the problems with the current situation. Let me list a few of these problems:

First, and this is crucial, Russia is at war. Let me repeat this: Russia is at war with the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that this war is roughly 80% informational, 15% economic and 5% kinetic does not make it less real or less dangerous, if only because these ratios can very rapidly change. Furthermore, Putin is a brilliant man placed at the top of an extremely bad system which almost cost Russia her very existence. As a result, Putin put his efforts in mostly two directions: protect Russia against the western aggression and struggle against the pro-western 5th columnists inside Russia (oligarchs, Zionists, “liberals”, russophobes, etc.) including inside the Kremlin (the Atlantic Integrationists à la Medvedev or the IMF/WTO/Washington Consensus types à la Nabiulina & Kudrin & Chubais, etc.). Of course, Putin did try to fight corruption, mismanagement, fraud, etc., but the two spheres where he hit the hardest were defense and aerospace. He also created the ONF (The All-Russia People’s Front) to try to “reach” deeper inside the Russian society and economy, and this also worked. But the fact remains that most of Putin’s energy was directed at fighting the war against the Empire and the 5th column inside Russia. Most of the country is still in dire need of reform.

Second, and to my personal great regret, Putin is a neo-liberal. A real anti-liberal would never have kept people like Kudrin (who, by the way, was fired by Medvedev, not Putin), or Nabiulina and all the rest of them. Alas, Putin failed to kick this entire gang were it belongs: in jail. He got some of them (Serdiukov, Uliukaev) but most of them are still here (notice that neither Nabuilina nor Chubais ever made it to the US sanctions list?). I am no mind reader but my best guess is that Putin sincerely believes in what we could loosely called “regulated capitalism” or “social democracy” and that the kind of ideas presented by, say, Sergei Glaziev, really frighten him as a possible return to the kind of disaster-economics the Soviet Union had in the 1980s. I think that he is wrong, but that doesn’t matter. What matters is that most Russian people clearly would want a number of things which Putin is not willing or able to deliver including a much harsher crackdown on corruption, much more vigorous social policies (social or “socialist” in the Russian sense of the word, meaning socially-oriented and not driven by capitalist ideology) and a much more equitable distribution of wealth.

By all accounts, and in diametrical opposition to what nonsense spewed by the AngloZionist propaganda, Putin is not at all a nostalgic of the Soviet era. In fact, he seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.). Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists. The fact that the Russian Communists completely fail to provide such an alternative is great for Putin’s reelection but very bad for Russia.

Third, Russia today is ruled by one man: Putin. Great guy, I totally support him! But one man ruling a country is a very bad thing not only because sooner or later this man will leave the scene and leave no credible successor, but also because a President should not be dealing with the pavement of the road in small cities in the Urals or get involved in the geographical distribution of maternity wards in Siberia. Yet this is exactly what is going on. The Russians have even an expression for that “Putin rules in a manual regime” meaning that he has to do everything by himself. This is sheer folly and this is obviously unsustainable. Oh sure, there are very sharp and good people around Putin, but none of them can match his unique combination of charm, charisma, intelligence, courage, patience, and determination: as soon as Putin leaves, for whatever reason, this entire system will come tumbling down precisely because it is not a real system but a “one man show”. And this is exactly what the Atlantic Integrationists are obviously waiting for to strike again.

So if Putin is so bad, why do I support him? Simply because at this point in time there is no alternative. And it’s not really that Putin is “bad” – but rather that he is a human being, not a miracle worker with a magic wand in his hands who can reform Russia simply by waving it and saying “abracadabra”. Especially not while Russia is at war with an Empire which threatens her very existence!

In the West, the AngloZionist are clearly backing Grudinin (see here here here here here here and even the always hyperpoliticallycorrect Wikipedia loves him!). The reasons for that are really simple: not only would the AngloZionist prefer *anybody*, including Count Dracula, over Putin, but if even if a purely nominal pseudo-Communist like Grudinin came to power the entire western “elites” could finally all loudly proclaim that: “Aha! Here is the proof; here is a wave of revanchist Communism in Russia and that is like the USSR 2.0 – welcome to the next Cold War!!“. In reality, the Russian Communist Party, chock-full of very real capitalists, (see machine translated article here) who Communist only in name, but its members still like red flags and pictures of Lenin and that ‘s good enough to scare those who already want to be scared (westerners). In the meantime, while the Russian state-media is bashing Grudinin, “somebody” is clearly actively promoting him in the Russian social media. Any guesses who that “somebody” might be?

As always, Russia’s “western geostrategic partners” are misreading Russia and wasting their breath (and money!). Here are the latest polls: Putin 71.5%, Zhirinovsky 5.5%, Grudinin 7.3% and the rest don’t matter. You don’t want to believe them? Fine. But when the difference is by a full order of magnitude your doubts won’t make much of a difference. Besides, you really don’t want the figures of being any different, trust me, because if the jester or the fake comes to power, then the crisis which will hit Russia and the rest of our planet will really be immense and very dangerous: we already have one clown in charge of a nuclear superpower, we most definitely can’t afford a second one.

The sad reality is that these elections will change nothing and they are not only boring (no real, credible, opposition) but also useless. A grand waste of time and money. And yet, they are also necessary.

ORDER IT NOW

They are necessary because in the “Empire of Illusions”, to borrow Chris Hedges’ excellent expression, everybody simply has to play by the AngloZionist rules: elections are an absolute “must” even if they are self-evidently farcical. So the Russians will get their “secular liturgy” (which is what elections really are), the right guy will stay in power, which is good, even if his staying in power has nothing to do with the formal trappings democracy. Yes, Putin does have the support of the overwhelming majority of the Russian people, even those who do not trust polls or election results agree on this, and that popular support is by far his most important power base (and the main reason why Putin-haters either stay quiet or become politically irrelevant). But the reality of that support is neither expressed by, nor conveyed through, Presidential elections. Putin does have the nation behind him, but not because some electoral farce says so. If by some magic trick, say, some court would strip Putin of all his legal powers, he still would have a much higher moral and, therefore, practical authority than any other person in Russia. Alexander Solzhenitsyn once said that all regimes can be positioned on a continuum ranging from regimes whose authority is based on their power to those whose power is based on their authority. Putin’s real power is not based on any Presidential election, nor is the based on the Russian Constitution, it is based on his moral authority with the Russian people. This is not something which can be expressed in percentages or numbers of cast bulletins, but it is no less real.

So the Empire’s goal is simple: not to replace Putin, at least not yet, but to prevent Putin from obtaining a clear majority in the first round. The plan is simple: if Putin gets a majority – denounce Russia as a non-democratic authoritarian state. If Putin by some miracle fails to get that majority, prove to the world that he is nowhere as popular as most people say he is and hope that all the anti-Putin forces combined will turn to Grudinin or Zhirinovsky (either one will do). If Grudinin goes into a 2nd round that will prove that Russia is a country with a strong nostalgia for the Soviet era (expect a myriad of references so Stalin in the Ziomedia), if it is Zhirinovksy, announce to the world that rabid Russian nationalists are about to invade the Baltics or nuke Turkey. When Putin eventually wins, declare that the election was stolen and explain to the zombified audience that Evil Vlad is nothing but the ideological sum total of commies and nationalists combined into one big “Russian Threat”.

Sounds stupid? Yes, of course. Because it is. But that’s the plan anyway.

The Saker

 
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  1. Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers.

    I suppose Kuzma Minin must be a figment of my imagination.

    Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    [MORE]

    Read More
    • Agree: Felix Keverich
    • Replies: @palmtoptiger

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.
     
    except that he's right and you're wrong (and I'm also Russian). it's really a no-brainer that most Russians overwhelmingly dislike blatant capitalism (or even any capitalism) and don't really have much respect for democracy either. if you made a poll tomorrow regarding the elections, my guess would be around 60-70% would say to just cancel the election and have Putin do another term.
    , @Anonymous
    Stop trying to make sense. You'll agitate the saker drones.
    , @Fran Macadam
    Those polls don't use the definition "capitalism" in the actual questions, but terms like "freedom" and "market" which don't necessarily conflate with Wall Street or oligarch controlled economies, which aren't exactly an open or free market. So Saker isn't completely off on this.

    For myself, I favor "free trade," yet oppose global financial hegemony by relatively few powerful elites at the expense of the majority who don't get to be a part of the cartels and hardly have any influence on the barriers to their benefiting equally from existing, controlled markets, against those with sufficient control of finance to use arbitrage to their own advantage.

    Freedom is hardly the ability of rogue elephants to crush everyone else underfoot in a closed room.

    , @anon
    Kuzma Minin was considered a hero in Russia not because of his status as a businessman, but because of his role in organizing a volunteer army to face a Polish invasion, ie his patriotic performance. He was not a Cornelius Vanderbildt, J.P. Morgan or Cecil Rhodes, admired in the West for being rich.
    , @Philip Owen
    Anatoly pulls up the Faker again. The Faker needs to look at the data and get some ground level experience before writing another word about Russia and Russians. Let's have him on America.
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  2. bluedog says:

    It seems the “some what agree” and “some what dis-agree” have the board, with the strongly agree running somewhere back in the middle of the pack,which would be about right…

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  3. By all accounts, and in diametrical opposition to what nonsense spewed by the AngloZionist propaganda, Putin is not at all a nostalgic of the Soviet era.

    This is risible. Calling Putin a soviet nostalgic was not done in a vacuum. It was done based on his own statements. Saker, you aren’t stupid, but write like it. A lot.

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it. Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed. We know Putin will win the next election because he’s the only one allowed to win an election. Putin is simply the head of a thugocracy. The place is owned by the Russian mafia and Putin is their face.

    Russia is declining. Not because of Putin’s non-existent neoliberalism, but because it is at war and does not have the economic resources to wage that war. Add in lack of necessity for that war, and you get the same sort of rubbish that killed the Soviet Union, and the end of Putin’s Russia will be the same as the Soviet Union’s.

    There is a Russian threat. But the direction of that threat is mostly directed at the Russian people who aren’t allowed to shed either the Soviet past, or the mafia present.

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    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Russia has no more bleak a likely future than the massively indebted, corrupt, racially violent, culturally and linguistically balkanizing, opioid-suiciding, bridge-collapsing, high-tax, antifamily, morally perverse, and homosexualized USA.

    I’m praying for both of our countries to turn it around, each according to its own culture, traditions, and core people’s wishes (I.e. I want a less centralized system than Russia has, and than WE have for that matter, and generally more individual liberty than most Russians would want. America and Russia can develop on different paths and still be effective partners, increasing trade and military cooperation to destroy Islamists, crush piracy on the sea, deter and contain China to Asia, etc.)

    A piece of that restoration would be ending the belligerence, dishonesty, sanctions, and threatening troop movements that the us gov is perpetrating against Russia. Oh, and stop killing Russian and Syrian personnel who are fighting Islamists. And stop supporting ISIS and other Islamists, and intentionally letting them escape. Just for starters, WarMaster.

    , @jimbojones

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it.
     
    That's logic reminiscent of "your wife doesn't admit you're beating her because she's afraid of your fist" and "Trump must have stolen the election because he could never possibly have won".
    And the assertion that "Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed" is just that - an assertion.

    Putin repaired Russia's economy, reinforced Russian values, and scored significant geopolitical victories. He has been successful on all fronts - economic, cultural, and foreign policy. That, combined with his presentability, is why he is so popular. Same as why FDR was popular in Depression & WW2-era America. And same as why Merkel is still Chancellor in Germany. (Her tenure is comparable to Putin's.)

    Long-term democratic rule by successful parties and individuals is a thing. Famous success stories such as Sweden and Japan went for decades under the same ruling party. Singapore did just fine under the guidance of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Now, Putin is no Lee Kuan Yew; and Russia is no Singapore. But that's another topic.

    , @TT

    Russia is declining. Not because of Putin’s non-existent neoliberalism, but because it is at war and does not have the economic resources to wage that war. Add in lack of necessity for that war, and you get the same sort of rubbish that killed the Soviet Union, and the end of Putin’s Russia will be the same as the Soviet Union’s.
     
    Mamamia, what cracks are you smoking?

    Russia hasn't been so strong in history than now in every fronts. Does Putin or Russia has a choice to not go on defensive war with the most Nazist FUKUS Nato can't wait to pound on it and feast its vast wealth, rape it hard like when SU collapse?

    I haven't seen someone as patient as Putin who all out to favour US Nato by calling these jackals "partners" when they are massacre innocents everywhere incl Russians in Syria war & Africa business, sanction Russia, instigate border wars and demonized him everywhere. Didn't US make open threats for Russians to pay price....partners, it make me feel sick.

    But Putin juz want to win the game at end, so he is willing to play the eunuch, to be humiliated repeatedly. A KGB elite with superb military that can wage projected war like US has no balls, you muz be kidding.

    When country is in existential threat, a responsible leader needs to prioritize domestic vs international policies. Without a safe peaceful country from external subjugation threat, don't bother to talk of better economic or demoncrapcy.

    China Xi did an excellent job, juz built the great wall to fence out West media sabotaging, built your economy resilience, rally your people with a realistic dream, extend his terms unlimited as long country need his leadership while not yet free from existential threat of CONTAINMENT.

    Putin should take a leaf from Xi, go it the manly way. Russia is for Russians, not for West msm.
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  4. For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics.

    The only alternative to western-style economics is Venezuela style economic malaise. Teachers and doctors in Venezuela are offering sexual services in exchange for food. This is what non-western economic models deliver. That’s “Bolivarian socialism”. You want this for Russia?

    …not good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen. The pavements in central Moscow are littered with expensive German cars. Russian Orthodox priests are particulary fond of German cars along with their traditional penchant for gold jewelry. Their morals allow them to buy this stuff.

    he [Putin] seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.).

    Life expectancy in Soviet Russia piqued at 69 in 1964 and has been in a slow *decline* for the remainder of communist rule right until that system collapsed. After a crash during the 1990s, life expectancy began to recover during Putin’s rule. It reached 73 years in 2017 and still rising. Government’s “neoliberal” policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists.

    And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn’t want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    Putin should not be idealized. He is a typical post-Soviet crook, who was still wise enough to pursue orthodox economic policies to prolong the longevity of his regime. This is what Putin does: he is preserving his regime. He isn’t fighting any war – I have no idea where Saker got this from.

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    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen.
     
    Can you please provide percentage of Russians who "CRAVE" money, the percentage of Russians who simply want decent normal life would also be highly appreciated. I would also like to ask about such percentages in US, Canada or, hey, what the hell--Japan. Definition of "craving" would also be helpful. Is a desire to get a better well-paying job, buy a decent house of drive good reliable vehicle a "craving" or is it something else? Percentage of those who "flaunt" would also be appreciated, is it 25%, 32% or 100%?

    This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    LOL!

    , @Andrei Martyanov

    Government’s “neoliberal” policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.
     
    Pardon me, but you have no clue what are you talking about--a feature very typical for pretentious Russian "liberals" and, generally, office plankton. You definitely have very vague idea about Russia and Russians. Nor, obviously, you understand that Russia's economic recovery, thus overall improvement of such metrics as life expectancy, was done on a radically non-neo-liberal economic agenda. In fact, in the last ten years revitalizing of Russia's industry (from extraction to machine-building) was done precisely with the most active participation of the State be it re-nationalization of some major manufacturers or creation of gigantic conglomerates such as Rostec. This is just the small part of State's (I deliberately omit here the term "government") radically non-neo-liberal policies which actually saved Russia. You can BS some foreigner about 1990s, but not me.
    , @Aedib
    The economics of Venezuela resembles in many issues the western-promoted liberal economics model of Ukraine. Lots of coincidences.
    , @peterAUS
    A very good comment, IMHO.
    Keep them coming, please.
    , @From _the_S/hole Continent
    That is obviously your very Ameerikun point of view. But it is sadly screwed by CNN/BBC, etc. The Saker is very close to the heart of things. Hey, but don't take my point of view...I only come from the same place Elon Musk hails from. So we actually know nothing...
    , @Joe Levantine
    "And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn’t want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia."
    If you had not specified the word 'Russian', I could have guessed you were talking about the USA.
    In fact not only do most Americans shy away from finding out about the truth in a country that has pushed division of labour to the maximum, they are trigger happy to be totally controlled by corporate media in a repetition of 'Iraq's weapons of mass destruction' to 'Russia and Putin the source of all evil'. Beyond some truly enlightened Americans whose opinions I am honoured and glad to read on this site, the black majority of the American public still go about their struggle for survival trusting the American politicians and American military are doing the right thing.
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  5. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Minin’s fame hardly came from the fact that he was a butcher’s son or a successful trader, but from the fact that as a military commander he helped liberate Moscow from the Poles.

    You should really stop presenting PEW polls (or any such polls, we all know how accurate they are, who pays for them and what their purpose is) as the opinions of Russians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    The Romanov's themselves were successful merchants. Then there is Ermakov extracting furs as tribute, not even paying for them.
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  6. @Felix Keverich

    For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics.
     
    The only alternative to western-style economics is Venezuela style economic malaise. Teachers and doctors in Venezuela are offering sexual services in exchange for food. This is what non-western economic models deliver. That's "Bolivarian socialism". You want this for Russia?

    ...not good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen. The pavements in central Moscow are littered with expensive German cars. Russian Orthodox priests are particulary fond of German cars along with their traditional penchant for gold jewelry. Their morals allow them to buy this stuff.

    he [Putin] seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.).
     
    Life expectancy in Soviet Russia piqued at 69 in 1964 and has been in a slow *decline* for the remainder of communist rule right until that system collapsed. After a crash during the 1990s, life expectancy began to recover during Putin's rule. It reached 73 years in 2017 and still rising. Government's "neoliberal" policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists.
     

    And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn't want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    Putin should not be idealized. He is a typical post-Soviet crook, who was still wise enough to pursue orthodox economic policies to prolong the longevity of his regime. This is what Putin does: he is preserving his regime. He isn't fighting any war - I have no idea where Saker got this from.

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen.

    Can you please provide percentage of Russians who “CRAVE” money, the percentage of Russians who simply want decent normal life would also be highly appreciated. I would also like to ask about such percentages in US, Canada or, hey, what the hell–Japan. Definition of “craving” would also be helpful. Is a desire to get a better well-paying job, buy a decent house of drive good reliable vehicle a “craving” or is it something else? Percentage of those who “flaunt” would also be appreciated, is it 25%, 32% or 100%?

    This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    LOL!

    Read More
    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Here you go:

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/attitudes-to-being-rich.png
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  7. @Felix Keverich

    For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics.
     
    The only alternative to western-style economics is Venezuela style economic malaise. Teachers and doctors in Venezuela are offering sexual services in exchange for food. This is what non-western economic models deliver. That's "Bolivarian socialism". You want this for Russia?

    ...not good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen. The pavements in central Moscow are littered with expensive German cars. Russian Orthodox priests are particulary fond of German cars along with their traditional penchant for gold jewelry. Their morals allow them to buy this stuff.

    he [Putin] seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.).
     
    Life expectancy in Soviet Russia piqued at 69 in 1964 and has been in a slow *decline* for the remainder of communist rule right until that system collapsed. After a crash during the 1990s, life expectancy began to recover during Putin's rule. It reached 73 years in 2017 and still rising. Government's "neoliberal" policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists.
     

    And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn't want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    Putin should not be idealized. He is a typical post-Soviet crook, who was still wise enough to pursue orthodox economic policies to prolong the longevity of his regime. This is what Putin does: he is preserving his regime. He isn't fighting any war - I have no idea where Saker got this from.

    Government’s “neoliberal” policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Pardon me, but you have no clue what are you talking about–a feature very typical for pretentious Russian “liberals” and, generally, office plankton. You definitely have very vague idea about Russia and Russians. Nor, obviously, you understand that Russia’s economic recovery, thus overall improvement of such metrics as life expectancy, was done on a radically non-neo-liberal economic agenda. In fact, in the last ten years revitalizing of Russia’s industry (from extraction to machine-building) was done precisely with the most active participation of the State be it re-nationalization of some major manufacturers or creation of gigantic conglomerates such as Rostec. This is just the small part of State’s (I deliberately omit here the term “government”) radically non-neo-liberal policies which actually saved Russia. You can BS some foreigner about 1990s, but not me.

    Read More
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  8. @Andrei Martyanov

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen.
     
    Can you please provide percentage of Russians who "CRAVE" money, the percentage of Russians who simply want decent normal life would also be highly appreciated. I would also like to ask about such percentages in US, Canada or, hey, what the hell--Japan. Definition of "craving" would also be helpful. Is a desire to get a better well-paying job, buy a decent house of drive good reliable vehicle a "craving" or is it something else? Percentage of those who "flaunt" would also be appreciated, is it 25%, 32% or 100%?

    This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    LOL!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Karlin, if you didn't get the message yet, I repeat--most of your "sources" and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia--forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.
    , @Curmudgeon
    The chart you reproduce is the chart for several questions rolled into one.
    - One can be rich without money and expensive things.
    - One can have money, but not be rich and have expensive things.
    - One can have expensive things, but not have money or be rich.
    - Any combination of the above.
    No reputable poll would ask a question like that. It is a technique used to herd poll respondents into a predetermined conclusion.

    If the question "Would you prefer to be have enough money to live comfortably?" were asked, how many people do you think would respond negatively? Answering negatively implies a want not to live comfortably. That is the essence of this poll question. Further, there is no opportunity to quantify "rich", what having money means, what "expensive" means, and/ what "expensive things" means. For example, a top of the line chef's knife will set you back over $200. Despite it being totally utilitarian, many would see that as an "expensive thing".

    The people whom Khrushchev distrusted are out to reclaim Russia.

    , @Dmitry
    Pretty sure that America, Brazil and China would have won on this list, if they had entered. Also Japan would be high up here, if certain metric is indication

    http://www.statista.com/graphic/1/442809/number-of-stores-of-bottega-veneta-worldwide-by-region.jpg

    , @Art Deco
    I'll wager a number of vectors produce those metrics, one being that the more pervasive the sense of insecurity, the more people seek money as a sword and a shield. Another would be the breakdown in the culture at large of non-pecuniary sources of status. Another is 'social desirability' of equalitarian sentiments in certain cultures, as well as the acceptability of duplicity. (I don't think the French respondents were being honest; they're just being French, and you take them seriously but not literally).
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  9. Jason Liu says:

    First, and this is crucial, Russia is at war. Let me repeat this: Russia is at war with the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that this war is roughly 80% informational, 15% economic and 5% kinetic does not make it less real or less dangerous, if only because these ratios can very rapidly change.

    So is China, except we’re not as aware of it. Especially the information warfare part.

    I think Putin should just kick democracy to the curb and make sure his opponents never have a chance to even deny him a majority. The west already regards Russia as an “non-democratic authoritarian state” anyway, it wouldn’t make a difference in terms of perception.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    So is China,
     
    Yes and no. It is much more complex with China than with Russia. US-Chinese relations have a peculiar dynamics, although at some pint of time things may get really dicey, no doubt about it.
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  10. @Anatoly Karlin
    Here you go:

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/attitudes-to-being-rich.png

    Karlin, if you didn’t get the message yet, I repeat–most of your “sources” and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia–forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kiza, yurivku
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    most of your “sources” and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia–forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.
     
    Слив засчитан. Next stop.

    Nor, obviously, you understand that Russia’s economic recovery, thus overall improvement of such metrics as life expectancy, was done on a radically non-neo-liberal economic agenda.
     
    The USSR was drastically less neoliberal than Russia is even today (regardless of just how neoliberal or not you believe it is today).

    Yet as Felix correctly points out, LE peaked at just under 70 years in the mid-1960s, and stagnated until its collapse (the modest recovery back up to 70 years under Gorbachev was a short-lived artifact of his anti-alcohol campaign) - even as Western, far more "neoliberal," nations surged ahead. Indeed, the USSR was one of the very few industrialized countries to see a sustained rise in infant mortality outside of wartime.

    So obviously lack of neoliberalism per se has fuck all to do with good LE performance or health outcomes in general.
    , @Philip Owen
    Is alcohol restriction totalitarian or neo liberal? Perhaps its neither.

    Disdain for wealth in Russia might have a gender bias. Women usually manage the household budget in my observation and many seem to rank a man by the brand and age of his car more obviously than in the UK.
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  11. @Jason Liu

    First, and this is crucial, Russia is at war. Let me repeat this: Russia is at war with the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that this war is roughly 80% informational, 15% economic and 5% kinetic does not make it less real or less dangerous, if only because these ratios can very rapidly change.
     
    So is China, except we're not as aware of it. Especially the information warfare part.

    I think Putin should just kick democracy to the curb and make sure his opponents never have a chance to even deny him a majority. The west already regards Russia as an "non-democratic authoritarian state" anyway, it wouldn't make a difference in terms of perception.

    So is China,

    Yes and no. It is much more complex with China than with Russia. US-Chinese relations have a peculiar dynamics, although at some pint of time things may get really dicey, no doubt about it.

    Read More
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  12. @Quartermaster

    By all accounts, and in diametrical opposition to what nonsense spewed by the AngloZionist propaganda, Putin is not at all a nostalgic of the Soviet era.
     
    This is risible. Calling Putin a soviet nostalgic was not done in a vacuum. It was done based on his own statements. Saker, you aren't stupid, but write like it. A lot.

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it. Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed. We know Putin will win the next election because he's the only one allowed to win an election. Putin is simply the head of a thugocracy. The place is owned by the Russian mafia and Putin is their face.

    Russia is declining. Not because of Putin's non-existent neoliberalism, but because it is at war and does not have the economic resources to wage that war. Add in lack of necessity for that war, and you get the same sort of rubbish that killed the Soviet Union, and the end of Putin's Russia will be the same as the Soviet Union's.

    There is a Russian threat. But the direction of that threat is mostly directed at the Russian people who aren't allowed to shed either the Soviet past, or the mafia present.

    Russia has no more bleak a likely future than the massively indebted, corrupt, racially violent, culturally and linguistically balkanizing, opioid-suiciding, bridge-collapsing, high-tax, antifamily, morally perverse, and homosexualized USA.

    I’m praying for both of our countries to turn it around, each according to its own culture, traditions, and core people’s wishes (I.e. I want a less centralized system than Russia has, and than WE have for that matter, and generally more individual liberty than most Russians would want. America and Russia can develop on different paths and still be effective partners, increasing trade and military cooperation to destroy Islamists, crush piracy on the sea, deter and contain China to Asia, etc.)

    A piece of that restoration would be ending the belligerence, dishonesty, sanctions, and threatening troop movements that the us gov is perpetrating against Russia. Oh, and stop killing Russian and Syrian personnel who are fighting Islamists. And stop supporting ISIS and other Islamists, and intentionally letting them escape. Just for starters, WarMaster.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TT

    deter and contain China to Asia
     
    Then the west should first leave Asia alone. Uncle Sham has hundreds of bases in Asia stirring war rt at China door steps, how many base China has in the world esp at West?

    Why US EU leaders like UK, France, Canada, Germany...Africa, Asia, Latin America, ME,... all are so keen to visit China for biz deals? Juz don't visit...then no need containment, each will enjoy own sphere of influence and prosperity.

    How you want a country with actual economy larger than US or EU to have no influence in the world when its No.1 trade partner for everyone?
    , @Quartermaster
    Russia future is dim because Putin can't stay inside his own borders and leave his neighbors alone. Until he gets out of Ukraine (and that includes Crimea) he is going to keep his country on a collision course with oblivion.

    Obama supported ISIS. Indeed, he created it. The recent set to where Wagner had its @** handed to it, is on Russia's head. Don't attack our people, you don't die. Simple as that.
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  13. @Andrei Martyanov
    Karlin, if you didn't get the message yet, I repeat--most of your "sources" and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia--forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.

    most of your “sources” and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia–forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.

    Слив засчитан. Next stop.

    Nor, obviously, you understand that Russia’s economic recovery, thus overall improvement of such metrics as life expectancy, was done on a radically non-neo-liberal economic agenda.

    The USSR was drastically less neoliberal than Russia is even today (regardless of just how neoliberal or not you believe it is today).

    Yet as Felix correctly points out, LE peaked at just under 70 years in the mid-1960s, and stagnated until its collapse (the modest recovery back up to 70 years under Gorbachev was a short-lived artifact of his anti-alcohol campaign) – even as Western, far more “neoliberal,” nations surged ahead. Indeed, the USSR was one of the very few industrialized countries to see a sustained rise in infant mortality outside of wartime.

    So obviously lack of neoliberalism per se has fuck all to do with good LE performance or health outcomes in general.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Слив засчитан. Next stop.
     
    Karlin, we have been through this before, haven't we? Your "conclusions" about anything USSR/Russia related are mostly ignorant BS. You may pretend in your bubble that I "slil" whatever but to take seriously some pseudo-political "scientist" who has no clue nor skills to make competent assessment of just about anything other than some useless app on Smart-phone or what is "cool" or "not cool", sorry. Let me demonstrate to you what is your "educational" background and "professional skills" worth--this is precisely your field:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/polls-got-wrong-trump-110421179.html

    I cannot take seriously a person who humiliates himself by questioning data by Russian Imperial General Staff or by writing manifestly incompetent articles on "military stuff" having no background whatsoever in any technology or operational issues. Check your own record, I didn't write it--you did. So, if you want to tell me what was USSR, I repeat again--my daughter is older than you are--wrong address. Per yours and Felix's so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again--you wouldn't know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause. So, continue to count your meaningless points--that is the only skill you obviously learned in your "humanities' Likbez (what was that Stanford, Berkely?) . As per Sliv, sure if it floats your boat--I slil. Take a cookie from the shelf and pat yourself on the back.
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  14. @Anatoly Karlin

    Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers.
     
    I suppose Kuzma Minin must be a figment of my imagination.

    Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     
    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/poll-east-europe-democracy-free-markets.png

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2010/01/1467-2.gif



    https://globescan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GSR10w2_2Abt_long.gif

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong (and I’m also Russian). it’s really a no-brainer that most Russians overwhelmingly dislike blatant capitalism (or even any capitalism) and don’t really have much respect for democracy either. if you made a poll tomorrow regarding the elections, my guess would be around 60-70% would say to just cancel the election and have Putin do another term.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong
     
    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all--he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian "nationalist" since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.
    , @Sergey Krieger
    The problem is what after. Except that Putin is healthy virile man the whole situation is being repeated over and over. Brezhnev for example.
    , @Felix Keverich
    You're wrong (I'm also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    Saker is talking about a principled moral opposition to capitalism as economic system (not to be confused with envy of the rich, or the entitlement mentality). This simply doesn't exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians' lifes.

    The Russians are not particularly envious people either: like I said, we've got these huge imported cars, with toned windows, blocking pavements in central Moscow, and nobody tries to puncture their tires or smash windows or anything (in Latin America, they would smash windows).
    , @Anatoly Karlin

    ... dislike blatant capitalism
     
    I don't think many people like "blatant capitalism" anywhere (whatever the hell "blatant" capitalism means). However, as the multiple polls I cited demonstrate, Russians clearly approve of free markets - in fact, in that respect, they are about average by the standards of post-Communist European countries.

    You are free to reference polls showing Russians are much less supportive of capitalism than other Europeans (i.e. what The Saker is claiming) - if you can find any. Otherwise, what you say is only your own opinion.

    Russians are indeed relatively much more skeptical about democracy, though they are not an absolute outlier there either. Good thing, then, that I didn't claim otherwise.
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  15. @Anatoly Karlin

    most of your “sources” and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia–forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.
     
    Слив засчитан. Next stop.

    Nor, obviously, you understand that Russia’s economic recovery, thus overall improvement of such metrics as life expectancy, was done on a radically non-neo-liberal economic agenda.
     
    The USSR was drastically less neoliberal than Russia is even today (regardless of just how neoliberal or not you believe it is today).

    Yet as Felix correctly points out, LE peaked at just under 70 years in the mid-1960s, and stagnated until its collapse (the modest recovery back up to 70 years under Gorbachev was a short-lived artifact of his anti-alcohol campaign) - even as Western, far more "neoliberal," nations surged ahead. Indeed, the USSR was one of the very few industrialized countries to see a sustained rise in infant mortality outside of wartime.

    So obviously lack of neoliberalism per se has fuck all to do with good LE performance or health outcomes in general.

    Слив засчитан. Next stop.

    Karlin, we have been through this before, haven’t we? Your “conclusions” about anything USSR/Russia related are mostly ignorant BS. You may pretend in your bubble that I “slil” whatever but to take seriously some pseudo-political “scientist” who has no clue nor skills to make competent assessment of just about anything other than some useless app on Smart-phone or what is “cool” or “not cool”, sorry. Let me demonstrate to you what is your “educational” background and “professional skills” worth–this is precisely your field:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/polls-got-wrong-trump-110421179.html

    I cannot take seriously a person who humiliates himself by questioning data by Russian Imperial General Staff or by writing manifestly incompetent articles on “military stuff” having no background whatsoever in any technology or operational issues. Check your own record, I didn’t write it–you did. So, if you want to tell me what was USSR, I repeat again–my daughter is older than you are–wrong address. Per yours and Felix’s so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again–you wouldn’t know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause. So, continue to count your meaningless points–that is the only skill you obviously learned in your “humanities’ Likbez (what was that Stanford, Berkely?) . As per Sliv, sure if it floats your boat–I slil. Take a cookie from the shelf and pat yourself on the back.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Per yours and Felix’s so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again–you wouldn’t know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause.
     
    Actually not having an alcoholization epidemic is far more important. But okay, let's have it your way.

    "Moral and psychological state" of the Soviet society 1965-1991:

    http://www.rainbowbuilders.org/development/life-expectancy-russia-usa-eastern-europe-19.png

    ... in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now...
     
    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.
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  16. @palmtoptiger

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.
     
    except that he's right and you're wrong (and I'm also Russian). it's really a no-brainer that most Russians overwhelmingly dislike blatant capitalism (or even any capitalism) and don't really have much respect for democracy either. if you made a poll tomorrow regarding the elections, my guess would be around 60-70% would say to just cancel the election and have Putin do another term.

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

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    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Agree
    , @Dissenter

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.
     
    That description fits also perfectly with The Saker, btw.
    In fact, I suspect that this pair, Karlin and The Saker, are in this issue together....I mean they play the opponents ad fight each other ( "blue on blue" it is called, as I was informed by an old strategist ), while BOTH spread nonsense and plain lies about Russia which just goes in full accordance with US last foreign policy line/statements.
    NONE of them has lived in Russia ever, and I fear almost never have visited it, nor represent in any way the oppinion or wishes of the Russian people/nation, but those of themselves and their ill aim against Russia because of what the Bolsheviks presumably did to their proviledged rich relatives a century ago....

    The Saker always does the same, in an article supposedly by a Russophile praising Putin he has just slided the notion just stated the other day by the very Nicky Halley at the UNSC calling the Russian current government a "regime" and for which was angrily summoned by Mr. Nebenzia.....

    You just ask yourself why The Saker needs to repeat everytime that he is a Putin fan-boy....and this to be continuously spreaded even by books written with this unique purpose....and why he is so promoted by such a number of "US alt-media"....
    , @Glossy
    I agree completely. Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you're doing a great job.

    I'll explain to everyone what kind of "nationalist" Karlin is. In America every neocon publication claims to be pro-American. They talk about American exceptionalism, defending American interests around the world. It's just dust that they throw in your eyes. They hate America. Don't be fooled, folks.

    I'm not Russian, but I know a few things about that country. The sort of rhetoric that Karlin uses, his loyalties, all of his neocon worldview: that's the most Russophobic stuff on earth.
    , @yurivku
    Well, being a Russian I do confirm that Saker takes too much to speak for all Russians. So does Karlin, but he's a liberal so it's not a surprise. For you to know - liberals are most hated part of society (if not to speak about gays).
    , @Gerard2

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country.
     
    To be fair, Karlin does speak English in a heavily russian accent, unlike that Americanised liberast dickhead Pozner. This suggests to me that in his time in America, Karlin always spoke Russian at home and probably made regular and lengthy trips to Russia.

    He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.
     
    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the "achievements" of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002. As for the undoubtedly russophobic and liberal garbage comments he occasionally makes, I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant.....in other words just trying to increase his profile.....which he is entitled to do.
    , @Spartak
    Well put Andrei.....
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  17. Another mind provoking article from Saker. A lot of points are spot on. I disagree about Bolsheviks. I can understand Saker views based upon his background but not giving credit to at least pre Krushev communist party is not fair. They not only saved Russia which was dying at the time but took her to heights that Russia had never achieved before. Modern communists are such by name only and are revisionists opportunist and capitalists party by their nature. No argument here. Here comes the most hot topic Putin himself. Reading Saker one might imagine Putin fighting liberal hydra for some 19 years and still hydra is there as if nothing. I have to ask the premise that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners. Otherwise how to explain liberal dominance in the government, media which spreads lies about Soviet past and financial sphere. Another thing is that like in Soviet times there is clear lack of systematic approach toward power succession and lack of checks and balances which led to few times clear unfit personalities coming to power and worse ruining the state in the process with no mechanism of removal. Where is Putin taking Russia? Bright capitalistic heaven where u0% of everything owned by a few with the rest going into debt slavery by taking mortgages and other loans to pay for what once was paid by state and public funds? He did save Russia once but with this situation the question is for how long as I see no Stalin period like rocket like growth making ussr untouchable and independent. With so much wealth stole and offshore I think it is unlikely and here comes question of finally addressing privatization of 90s and probable return to socialism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners.
     
    I think he is slightly more complex--recall his arrival to power in 2000 (after being officially elected). First two things he does:

    1. Writes a serious article on Russian paternalism and its role in history;
    2. Receives (first, mind you) in Kremlin both Chikin (Sovetskay Rossya) and Prokhanov (Zavtra).

    Speaks volumes. Then, his literally two-three days ago statement about national strength in collectivism. He doesn't worry about elections--he knows his numbers, so it is not pandering to electorate. What is there? I don't know. But remember this--huge provocation is highly probable prior to elections. Ukraine? Syria? Don't know but judging by the level of hatred towards him in the West and in some fringe circles of Russians--it is not a game. They DO hate him precisely because overwhelming majority of Russians supports him.
    , @Gerard2

    Another thing is that like in Soviet times there is clear lack of systematic approach toward power succession and lack of checks and balances which led to few times clear unfit personalities coming to power and worse ruining the state in the process with no mechanism of removal.
     
    This is just insulting garbage straight from the pages of Vedomosti. What "approach" towards power succession does there have to be? Why does it have to be assumed that if the country is not in a state of war, that there won't be an entirely normally power succession? This issn't America where idiots line up the next Trump daughter/Bush/Clinton/wife of Obama to be competing in 2020.

    "lacks of checks and balances" is liberast 5h column BS. Where does Putin enforce his will in policy , completely against the will of the 2 main political chambers or the majority of the Russian society? Russian life expectancy is up, Putin wants to increase the retirement age, Duma doesn't want to legislate it, Russian public obviously not too keen to raise it, so guess what?....it hasn't happened !
    In reality the Russian government caves into public pressure on infrastructure projects , releasing "persecuted" guilty criminals and general domestic policies...at an equal and maybe even more amount of times than most western countries.

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  18. @Andrei Martyanov

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong
     
    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all--he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian "nationalist" since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    Agree

    Read More
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  19. @palmtoptiger

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.
     
    except that he's right and you're wrong (and I'm also Russian). it's really a no-brainer that most Russians overwhelmingly dislike blatant capitalism (or even any capitalism) and don't really have much respect for democracy either. if you made a poll tomorrow regarding the elections, my guess would be around 60-70% would say to just cancel the election and have Putin do another term.

    The problem is what after. Except that Putin is healthy virile man the whole situation is being repeated over and over. Brezhnev for example.

    Read More
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  20. @palmtoptiger

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.
     
    except that he's right and you're wrong (and I'm also Russian). it's really a no-brainer that most Russians overwhelmingly dislike blatant capitalism (or even any capitalism) and don't really have much respect for democracy either. if you made a poll tomorrow regarding the elections, my guess would be around 60-70% would say to just cancel the election and have Putin do another term.

    You’re wrong (I’m also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    Saker is talking about a principled moral opposition to capitalism as economic system (not to be confused with envy of the rich, or the entitlement mentality). This simply doesn’t exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians’ lifes.

    The Russians are not particularly envious people either: like I said, we’ve got these huge imported cars, with toned windows, blocking pavements in central Moscow, and nobody tries to puncture their tires or smash windows or anything (in Latin America, they would smash windows).

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I’m also Russian
     
    Really? You sound like the mouthpiece of Echo Matzy.

    This simply doesn’t exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians’ lifes.
     
    So, what you say is tantamount to Russians not having in them a concept of good or bad, right or wrong. You see, also in accordance to James Clapper Russians are genetically predespositioned for penetrating, subverting--what have you. In general, Russians are untemensch. Have you tried to peddle your Russian "expertise" to CNN or MSNBC? I am sure you and Masha Gessen have a lot in common, so New Yorker or NYT may also be a consideration. I know hundreds of people in Russia and most of them do have concepts of right and wrong--and they come from different walks of life. Have you tried to change your social environment maybe? To get a better handle on reality or are you so "Russian" that you post a blatant lie and an open insult to the whole nation and think that this is normal?
    , @palmtoptiger

    You’re wrong (I’m also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.
     
    maybe not a "strong" opinion. but most people I know (and have met in my life in Russia) do have an opinion. and it's really quite different from what Anatoly is trying to prove with his graphs. it's much more like what Saker is saying (without any graphs).

    so.. even if those graphs are genuine (which is far from certain, given the very questionable sources they are from), it would just go to show that there's "lies, damn lies, and statistics" (c).
    , @yurivku
    You are not Russian, as max you are rossianin, please use your true nationality when writing such a russophobic bs.
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  21. @Sergey Krieger
    Another mind provoking article from Saker. A lot of points are spot on. I disagree about Bolsheviks. I can understand Saker views based upon his background but not giving credit to at least pre Krushev communist party is not fair. They not only saved Russia which was dying at the time but took her to heights that Russia had never achieved before. Modern communists are such by name only and are revisionists opportunist and capitalists party by their nature. No argument here. Here comes the most hot topic Putin himself. Reading Saker one might imagine Putin fighting liberal hydra for some 19 years and still hydra is there as if nothing. I have to ask the premise that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners. Otherwise how to explain liberal dominance in the government, media which spreads lies about Soviet past and financial sphere. Another thing is that like in Soviet times there is clear lack of systematic approach toward power succession and lack of checks and balances which led to few times clear unfit personalities coming to power and worse ruining the state in the process with no mechanism of removal. Where is Putin taking Russia? Bright capitalistic heaven where u0% of everything owned by a few with the rest going into debt slavery by taking mortgages and other loans to pay for what once was paid by state and public funds? He did save Russia once but with this situation the question is for how long as I see no Stalin period like rocket like growth making ussr untouchable and independent. With so much wealth stole and offshore I think it is unlikely and here comes question of finally addressing privatization of 90s and probable return to socialism.

    that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners.

    I think he is slightly more complex–recall his arrival to power in 2000 (after being officially elected). First two things he does:

    1. Writes a serious article on Russian paternalism and its role in history;
    2. Receives (first, mind you) in Kremlin both Chikin (Sovetskay Rossya) and Prokhanov (Zavtra).

    Speaks volumes. Then, his literally two-three days ago statement about national strength in collectivism. He doesn’t worry about elections–he knows his numbers, so it is not pandering to electorate. What is there? I don’t know. But remember this–huge provocation is highly probable prior to elections. Ukraine? Syria? Don’t know but judging by the level of hatred towards him in the West and in some fringe circles of Russians–it is not a game. They DO hate him precisely because overwhelming majority of Russians supports him.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    He is still enigma after so many years in power. He is very careful and as you said once thoughtful. Hence I am trying to look at overall picture. Improvements are there especially in defence industry and military. But constant smearing campaign on tv of the soviet past. Putin throwing here and there opinions about Lenin and Stalin. Closure of mausoleum on May 9. Education. I see very contradictory signs. What exactly he meant by paternalism? People who took everything throwing few bones. How paternalism even possible with so much stolen and offshore. Where is resources? I think a lot is concentrated on this ownership and privatization thing and basically the road Russia is going to continue on. I have no clue where Putin is taking Russia. Liberal project has been terrible failure. Putin just opened few pages from the soviet project and there is progress. I believe the time is to revisit the whole book. Too much good things there to just let it lay idle considering it was overall success in building state and providing people with most important things obviously with improvements. But That's my musing. Putin next term is a done deal. Next 6 years will be decisive. I also wonder about your words about possible provocations from the partners. Is their real red lines which would tequire real response. After all time comes where real response is needed. They might actually do things that not acting really strong might undermine Putin standing with people.
    , @yurivku
    I wouldn't say overwhelming majority supports him. But yes, probably a majority, most of which just afraid of changes.
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  22. @Andrei Martyanov

    Слив засчитан. Next stop.
     
    Karlin, we have been through this before, haven't we? Your "conclusions" about anything USSR/Russia related are mostly ignorant BS. You may pretend in your bubble that I "slil" whatever but to take seriously some pseudo-political "scientist" who has no clue nor skills to make competent assessment of just about anything other than some useless app on Smart-phone or what is "cool" or "not cool", sorry. Let me demonstrate to you what is your "educational" background and "professional skills" worth--this is precisely your field:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/polls-got-wrong-trump-110421179.html

    I cannot take seriously a person who humiliates himself by questioning data by Russian Imperial General Staff or by writing manifestly incompetent articles on "military stuff" having no background whatsoever in any technology or operational issues. Check your own record, I didn't write it--you did. So, if you want to tell me what was USSR, I repeat again--my daughter is older than you are--wrong address. Per yours and Felix's so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again--you wouldn't know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause. So, continue to count your meaningless points--that is the only skill you obviously learned in your "humanities' Likbez (what was that Stanford, Berkely?) . As per Sliv, sure if it floats your boat--I slil. Take a cookie from the shelf and pat yourself on the back.

    Per yours and Felix’s so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again–you wouldn’t know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause.

    Actually not having an alcoholization epidemic is far more important. But okay, let’s have it your way.

    “Moral and psychological state” of the Soviet society 1965-1991:

    … in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now…

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.
     
    Yes, I left the remnants of USSR in my early 30s, being a grown up man and having some experiences in my life of which you can not even conceive. This is apart from losing everything we had in Azerbaijan. Feel the difference? Per your graphs--Karlin, how do you think if Western major institutes: economic, intelligence, military, to name a few, provided the world with a whopper of a failure to predict and forecast correctly most of the dynamics in post 9-11 world, with complete implosion of the so called American Russia expertdom being the most strategically and historically consequential, what should be my attitude to them. Mind you, those people, unlike you, many of them have a plethora of Ph.D degrees in all kinds of fields, publish regularly and yet--all they knew, including their "statistics", turned out to be a complete crap--both about the West and, especially, Russia. How much do you think am I interested in discussing anything with pundit like you on the subject of which you have no grasp whatsoever and use the same methods which are completely discredited by now? Do you remember this:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you. I'll be deliberately blunt--you simply lack academic, experience and other faculties required for understanding these issues. If the whole massive American Russia "study" field, with all of its massive inputs of academe, humint, signint, analytical institutions, think-tankdom couldn't figure it out and failed miserably, what do you think is your input and place in all that? Some graphs from dubious sources, with dubious statistics, some data manipulation, some tendentious ideas and some dubious political views totally detached from reality? You have your audience and God bless but don't expect not to be called out. Your voice on Russia has the same worth as that of Anne Applebaum, Julia Ioffe or Masha Gessen. Absolutely the same.
    , @Glossy
    I remember arguing with Karlin about this data. As I recall, he admitted that the Soviet life expectancy numbers he used were not the official numbers released by the Soviet government. Which implies to me that they were made up by the CIA, as part of the same campaign as the "30 million killed by Stalin" stuff.

    As everyone who saw the 1990s knows, the real misery in Russia started when Karlin's side won.
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  23. @palmtoptiger

    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.
     
    except that he's right and you're wrong (and I'm also Russian). it's really a no-brainer that most Russians overwhelmingly dislike blatant capitalism (or even any capitalism) and don't really have much respect for democracy either. if you made a poll tomorrow regarding the elections, my guess would be around 60-70% would say to just cancel the election and have Putin do another term.

    … dislike blatant capitalism

    I don’t think many people like “blatant capitalism” anywhere (whatever the hell “blatant” capitalism means). However, as the multiple polls I cited demonstrate, Russians clearly approve of free markets – in fact, in that respect, they are about average by the standards of post-Communist European countries.

    You are free to reference polls showing Russians are much less supportive of capitalism than other Europeans (i.e. what The Saker is claiming) – if you can find any. Otherwise, what you say is only your own opinion.

    Russians are indeed relatively much more skeptical about democracy, though they are not an absolute outlier there either. Good thing, then, that I didn’t claim otherwise.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Is there going to be anything but the most blatant capitalism in Russia? Give me a break. I know you are a fan of Russia we all lost, thanks God, but Russia did have the most blatant capitalism already twice and it did not work well. Russia and capitalism are incompatible.
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  24. @Felix Keverich
    You're wrong (I'm also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    Saker is talking about a principled moral opposition to capitalism as economic system (not to be confused with envy of the rich, or the entitlement mentality). This simply doesn't exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians' lifes.

    The Russians are not particularly envious people either: like I said, we've got these huge imported cars, with toned windows, blocking pavements in central Moscow, and nobody tries to puncture their tires or smash windows or anything (in Latin America, they would smash windows).

    I’m also Russian

    Really? You sound like the mouthpiece of Echo Matzy.

    This simply doesn’t exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians’ lifes.

    So, what you say is tantamount to Russians not having in them a concept of good or bad, right or wrong. You see, also in accordance to James Clapper Russians are genetically predespositioned for penetrating, subverting–what have you. In general, Russians are untemensch. Have you tried to peddle your Russian “expertise” to CNN or MSNBC? I am sure you and Masha Gessen have a lot in common, so New Yorker or NYT may also be a consideration. I know hundreds of people in Russia and most of them do have concepts of right and wrong–and they come from different walks of life. Have you tried to change your social environment maybe? To get a better handle on reality or are you so “Russian” that you post a blatant lie and an open insult to the whole nation and think that this is normal?

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    • Replies: @Yevardian
    I believe what Mr. Keverich was clumsily trying to express was that Russians don't quite the same black-and-white, Manichean, moral crusader mentality as that of many Americans.
    I agree with gist of your argument, but you're being overly defensive and churlish. Perhaps meeting so many Americanised Russians abroad has left a sour taste.
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  25. @Anatoly Karlin

    Per yours and Felix’s so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again–you wouldn’t know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause.
     
    Actually not having an alcoholization epidemic is far more important. But okay, let's have it your way.

    "Moral and psychological state" of the Soviet society 1965-1991:

    http://www.rainbowbuilders.org/development/life-expectancy-russia-usa-eastern-europe-19.png

    ... in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now...
     
    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.

    Yes, I left the remnants of USSR in my early 30s, being a grown up man and having some experiences in my life of which you can not even conceive. This is apart from losing everything we had in Azerbaijan. Feel the difference? Per your graphs–Karlin, how do you think if Western major institutes: economic, intelligence, military, to name a few, provided the world with a whopper of a failure to predict and forecast correctly most of the dynamics in post 9-11 world, with complete implosion of the so called American Russia expertdom being the most strategically and historically consequential, what should be my attitude to them. Mind you, those people, unlike you, many of them have a plethora of Ph.D degrees in all kinds of fields, publish regularly and yet–all they knew, including their “statistics”, turned out to be a complete crap–both about the West and, especially, Russia. How much do you think am I interested in discussing anything with pundit like you on the subject of which you have no grasp whatsoever and use the same methods which are completely discredited by now? Do you remember this:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you. I’ll be deliberately blunt–you simply lack academic, experience and other faculties required for understanding these issues. If the whole massive American Russia “study” field, with all of its massive inputs of academe, humint, signint, analytical institutions, think-tankdom couldn’t figure it out and failed miserably, what do you think is your input and place in all that? Some graphs from dubious sources, with dubious statistics, some data manipulation, some tendentious ideas and some dubious political views totally detached from reality? You have your audience and God bless but don’t expect not to be called out. Your voice on Russia has the same worth as that of Anne Applebaum, Julia Ioffe or Masha Gessen. Absolutely the same.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    That is a lot of words to say nothing.
    , @Philip Owen
    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist "It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty". Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

    Anatoly speaks English with a Russian accent and he has gone to Russia to live. So I value his thoughts far about Saker's babblings.
    , @Art Deco
    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you.

    If you weren't interested, you wouldn't keep posting. There must be some motive for dumping this sort of trash talk on every other thread. Why not come clean about it?
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  26. @Quartermaster

    By all accounts, and in diametrical opposition to what nonsense spewed by the AngloZionist propaganda, Putin is not at all a nostalgic of the Soviet era.
     
    This is risible. Calling Putin a soviet nostalgic was not done in a vacuum. It was done based on his own statements. Saker, you aren't stupid, but write like it. A lot.

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it. Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed. We know Putin will win the next election because he's the only one allowed to win an election. Putin is simply the head of a thugocracy. The place is owned by the Russian mafia and Putin is their face.

    Russia is declining. Not because of Putin's non-existent neoliberalism, but because it is at war and does not have the economic resources to wage that war. Add in lack of necessity for that war, and you get the same sort of rubbish that killed the Soviet Union, and the end of Putin's Russia will be the same as the Soviet Union's.

    There is a Russian threat. But the direction of that threat is mostly directed at the Russian people who aren't allowed to shed either the Soviet past, or the mafia present.

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it.

    That’s logic reminiscent of “your wife doesn’t admit you’re beating her because she’s afraid of your fist” and “Trump must have stolen the election because he could never possibly have won”.
    And the assertion that “Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed” is just that – an assertion.

    Putin repaired Russia’s economy, reinforced Russian values, and scored significant geopolitical victories. He has been successful on all fronts – economic, cultural, and foreign policy. That, combined with his presentability, is why he is so popular. Same as why FDR was popular in Depression & WW2-era America. And same as why Merkel is still Chancellor in Germany. (Her tenure is comparable to Putin’s.)

    Long-term democratic rule by successful parties and individuals is a thing. Famous success stories such as Sweden and Japan went for decades under the same ruling party. Singapore did just fine under the guidance of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Now, Putin is no Lee Kuan Yew; and Russia is no Singapore. But that’s another topic.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    I have said this many times since I first put it forward on Untimely Thoughts (Peter Lavelle's now defunct group for Russian specialists in 2008. Putin is closest to De Gaulle, complete with botched decolonization. United Russia is very Gaullist except that the religious wing is strong. You will see others recycle this.
    , @Quartermaster
    You're not at all observant. So far, no one who was a credible threat to Putin's continuation in power has survived or stayed free. Your "logic" is tortured, at best.
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  27. @Andrei Martyanov

    that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners.
     
    I think he is slightly more complex--recall his arrival to power in 2000 (after being officially elected). First two things he does:

    1. Writes a serious article on Russian paternalism and its role in history;
    2. Receives (first, mind you) in Kremlin both Chikin (Sovetskay Rossya) and Prokhanov (Zavtra).

    Speaks volumes. Then, his literally two-three days ago statement about national strength in collectivism. He doesn't worry about elections--he knows his numbers, so it is not pandering to electorate. What is there? I don't know. But remember this--huge provocation is highly probable prior to elections. Ukraine? Syria? Don't know but judging by the level of hatred towards him in the West and in some fringe circles of Russians--it is not a game. They DO hate him precisely because overwhelming majority of Russians supports him.

    He is still enigma after so many years in power. He is very careful and as you said once thoughtful. Hence I am trying to look at overall picture. Improvements are there especially in defence industry and military. But constant smearing campaign on tv of the soviet past. Putin throwing here and there opinions about Lenin and Stalin. Closure of mausoleum on May 9. Education. I see very contradictory signs. What exactly he meant by paternalism? People who took everything throwing few bones. How paternalism even possible with so much stolen and offshore. Where is resources? I think a lot is concentrated on this ownership and privatization thing and basically the road Russia is going to continue on. I have no clue where Putin is taking Russia. Liberal project has been terrible failure. Putin just opened few pages from the soviet project and there is progress. I believe the time is to revisit the whole book. Too much good things there to just let it lay idle considering it was overall success in building state and providing people with most important things obviously with improvements. But That’s my musing. Putin next term is a done deal. Next 6 years will be decisive. I also wonder about your words about possible provocations from the partners. Is their real red lines which would tequire real response. After all time comes where real response is needed. They might actually do things that not acting really strong might undermine Putin standing with people.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    I disagree. Where there is a competitive market economy there have been improvements. The major places to find corruption are in the state sector.

    I deal mostly with private companies. There has been reform after reform. It is no longer possible to steal a company by waving a gun at the receptionist and taking the stamps (often kept at reception so that visitors can have their travel documents stamped to show they really arrived there). There are many kinds of sausages on the shelves. Some people chose to pay 30 Rub a kilo for French potatoes others pay 6 Rub for Belarussian ones or those from a pensioners dacha (not so many selling like that now).

    It's a long time since I met anyone complaining about quarter pay or no pay at all for 6 months. The problem is too little competition not too much, Saratov Airlines being an example. A cash machine for its owners.
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  28. @Anatoly Karlin

    ... dislike blatant capitalism
     
    I don't think many people like "blatant capitalism" anywhere (whatever the hell "blatant" capitalism means). However, as the multiple polls I cited demonstrate, Russians clearly approve of free markets - in fact, in that respect, they are about average by the standards of post-Communist European countries.

    You are free to reference polls showing Russians are much less supportive of capitalism than other Europeans (i.e. what The Saker is claiming) - if you can find any. Otherwise, what you say is only your own opinion.

    Russians are indeed relatively much more skeptical about democracy, though they are not an absolute outlier there either. Good thing, then, that I didn't claim otherwise.

    Is there going to be anything but the most blatant capitalism in Russia? Give me a break. I know you are a fan of Russia we all lost, thanks God, but Russia did have the most blatant capitalism already twice and it did not work well. Russia and capitalism are incompatible.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Peak RSFSR GDPcc as % of US =~ 50%
    Current RF GDPcc (PPP adjusted) as % of US =~ 50%

    So the current model is not obviously inferior to the Soviet one, even though it is far from ideal capitalism (state controls ~70% of the economy, huge corruption, oligarchs who got to where they are by sleaze instead of talent, etc.)
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  29. @Andrei Martyanov

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.
     
    Yes, I left the remnants of USSR in my early 30s, being a grown up man and having some experiences in my life of which you can not even conceive. This is apart from losing everything we had in Azerbaijan. Feel the difference? Per your graphs--Karlin, how do you think if Western major institutes: economic, intelligence, military, to name a few, provided the world with a whopper of a failure to predict and forecast correctly most of the dynamics in post 9-11 world, with complete implosion of the so called American Russia expertdom being the most strategically and historically consequential, what should be my attitude to them. Mind you, those people, unlike you, many of them have a plethora of Ph.D degrees in all kinds of fields, publish regularly and yet--all they knew, including their "statistics", turned out to be a complete crap--both about the West and, especially, Russia. How much do you think am I interested in discussing anything with pundit like you on the subject of which you have no grasp whatsoever and use the same methods which are completely discredited by now? Do you remember this:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you. I'll be deliberately blunt--you simply lack academic, experience and other faculties required for understanding these issues. If the whole massive American Russia "study" field, with all of its massive inputs of academe, humint, signint, analytical institutions, think-tankdom couldn't figure it out and failed miserably, what do you think is your input and place in all that? Some graphs from dubious sources, with dubious statistics, some data manipulation, some tendentious ideas and some dubious political views totally detached from reality? You have your audience and God bless but don't expect not to be called out. Your voice on Russia has the same worth as that of Anne Applebaum, Julia Ioffe or Masha Gessen. Absolutely the same.

    That is a lot of words to say nothing.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    That is a lot of words to say nothing.
     
    As long as this "nothing" is not a BS, this is just fine with me.
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  30. @Sergey Krieger
    Is there going to be anything but the most blatant capitalism in Russia? Give me a break. I know you are a fan of Russia we all lost, thanks God, but Russia did have the most blatant capitalism already twice and it did not work well. Russia and capitalism are incompatible.

    Peak RSFSR GDPcc as % of US =~ 50%
    Current RF GDPcc (PPP adjusted) as % of US =~ 50%

    So the current model is not obviously inferior to the Soviet one, even though it is far from ideal capitalism (state controls ~70% of the economy, huge corruption, oligarchs who got to where they are by sleaze instead of talent, etc.)

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  31. @Anatoly Karlin
    Here you go:

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/attitudes-to-being-rich.png

    The chart you reproduce is the chart for several questions rolled into one.
    - One can be rich without money and expensive things.
    - One can have money, but not be rich and have expensive things.
    - One can have expensive things, but not have money or be rich.
    - Any combination of the above.
    No reputable poll would ask a question like that. It is a technique used to herd poll respondents into a predetermined conclusion.

    If the question “Would you prefer to be have enough money to live comfortably?” were asked, how many people do you think would respond negatively? Answering negatively implies a want not to live comfortably. That is the essence of this poll question. Further, there is no opportunity to quantify “rich”, what having money means, what “expensive” means, and/ what “expensive things” means. For example, a top of the line chef’s knife will set you back over $200. Despite it being totally utilitarian, many would see that as an “expensive thing”.

    The people whom Khrushchev distrusted are out to reclaim Russia.

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  32. @Anatoly Karlin
    That is a lot of words to say nothing.

    That is a lot of words to say nothing.

    As long as this “nothing” is not a BS, this is just fine with me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Please let me call out for your inconsistency - you say that he is below your level but you keep engaging in a discussion with this aggresive and stupid mug who probably has a worthless graph for when he should go to toilet.

    Nevertheless, I personally benefited from your explanations because I am not Russian and could not counter such character as you can.

    Personally, what I find most stupid from this clown is how he draws inferences from the data in front of him, here is one little example: “Indeed, the USSR was one of the very few industrialized countries to see a sustained rise in infant mortality outside of wartime. So obviously lack of neoliberalism per se has fuck all to do with good LE performance or health outcomes in general.” Therefore, one case (real or propaganda created) of decreased life expectancy is sufficient to prove that neoliberalism cannot be (also) associated with the drop in life-expectancy.

    From the assumed non-correlation the self-esteemed scientist Karlin draws a non-causation which fits his ideological bias. The only mitigating factor is that the West is full of “statisticians” such as Karlin, thus his lack of understanding of what he is talking about does not stand out in such environment. As someone who worked a lot with statistical data I have a title for such people: data bamboozlers - they bamboozle themselves and their lessers with their quasi-learned explanations of the data collected. An even more common dumb error of such people is to disregard the bias in data collection. As long as data say what those want them to say then the bias does not exist. This is, for example, how Hillary lead in all polls before the election.

    Karlin’s little comment above is so out of the ballpark that even on its own (I do not read his rubbish writings) would immediately classify him as a worthless dill, not worth reading or engaging in a discussion with.
    , @yurivku
    BTW Andrei, just in case is a link to SNAGIT software, it's powerful and handy, but of cource it's up 2 you to try.

    https://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.html
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/SnagIt

    Here is an example of result pictures:
    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig

    BTW when I just insert a link to picture it doesn't seem to be immediately on screen. Probably there are some tags for that should be used?
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  33. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers.
     
    I suppose Kuzma Minin must be a figment of my imagination.

    Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     
    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/poll-east-europe-democracy-free-markets.png

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2010/01/1467-2.gif



    https://globescan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GSR10w2_2Abt_long.gif

    Stop trying to make sense. You’ll agitate the saker drones.

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  34. Cyrano says:

    Democracy is a serious business and I don’t think it should be left to amateurs like the Russians to decide who is going to be their next president.

    Because let’s face it, in the last election they had the simplest of choices – only 2 candidates – and they still managed to elect the wrong one – Trump.

    If the Russians have any common decency left – they should allow the Americans to return the favor – and let THEM elect the next Russian president. Like they did it in the 90’s with Yeltsin.

    That’s all the Americans are asking for – give them another chance to elect a Russian president and the Russians may never need another one.

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    • LOL: bluedog, polskijoe
    • Replies: @Kiza
    The problem is not that US swamp dwellers want to elect the President of Russia, the problem is that a group of the so called Russians want to help them in that noble endeavour and are very actively trolling the self-determination writers such as the Saker. Even many US people support self-determination of other countries, but the Russian neo-liberals are craving for the AngloZionist masters, to put them into positions of power.

    For the similar trash in the country I came from, I used to say: They are the patriots who want to come back to their home country on top of a US tank waving the US flag of freedom.
    , @Ha ha
    LOL! LOL!!

    Sure, once Americans set up democracy in any country, that country will never again need anything else. That is the one sure advantage of being dead.
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  35. Dissenter says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong
     
    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all--he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian "nationalist" since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    That description fits also perfectly with The Saker, btw.
    In fact, I suspect that this pair, Karlin and The Saker, are in this issue together….I mean they play the opponents ad fight each other ( “blue on blue” it is called, as I was informed by an old strategist ), while BOTH spread nonsense and plain lies about Russia which just goes in full accordance with US last foreign policy line/statements.
    NONE of them has lived in Russia ever, and I fear almost never have visited it, nor represent in any way the oppinion or wishes of the Russian people/nation, but those of themselves and their ill aim against Russia because of what the Bolsheviks presumably did to their proviledged rich relatives a century ago….

    The Saker always does the same, in an article supposedly by a Russophile praising Putin he has just slided the notion just stated the other day by the very Nicky Halley at the UNSC calling the Russian current government a “regime” and for which was angrily summoned by Mr. Nebenzia…..

    You just ask yourself why The Saker needs to repeat everytime that he is a Putin fan-boy….and this to be continuously spreaded even by books written with this unique purpose….and why he is so promoted by such a number of “US alt-media”….

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  36. Faker says:

    Has this guy, the Faker, who’s predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida for as long as I can remember, ever been right on anything?

    I remember his analyses on the Mistral fiasco, meaning his propaganda to deflect the fact that Putin and Russia had been humiliated yet again. I remember how it was supposed to crash France’s sales of military hardware, just to see France the following year hit record sales…

    The problem for the Faker and his pals online, like “1997 peak oil Orlov” or the FSB’ ZeroHedge, is that propaganda has reached its limits and that Russia is now facing reality economically (severe recession in the last 2 years… oh but wait, I thought it was Ukraine that was going to tank), militarily and geopolitically (who can keep track of the allies Putin has lost in the last few years?).

    Watch the great “empire slayers” China and Russia, which, I agree with commenters above are populated by people that are obsessed with money and materialism (funny that those who say all statistics out there are fake ask for stats for a fact everyone can observer with their very own eyes), cower as Trump turns up the pressure on North Korea and Syria.

    They will drop their allies like they’ve done for 20 years now very single time it got too warm in the kitchen. Ask Serbia, Iraq, Lybia, Cuba and others about their great ally Putin. Why would anyone want such an ally?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Has this guy, the Faker, who’s predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida
     
    This must have been written for you: http://thesaker.is/the-answer-to-the-idiots-question/
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    The Saker might be an ideologue who has predicted all ten of America's (and Ukraine's) past zero collapses, but unfortunately, so are you.

    Facts:

    1. Russia's recession was pretty mild, and ended more than a year ago, anyway. And the Ukraine's economy did tank during 2014-15, to a much greater degree than Russia's.

    2. It is entirely possible that without Russia's intervention that the Assad regime would have been gone by now, so it remains to be seen whether Russia has succeeded or failed there. As things stand today, Russia's balance of success in Syria is modestly positive, although with the potential to go sharply negative.

    3. Your observations on North Korea seem to lack basic comprehension of the situation there. Hint: The Chinese aren't exactly on the best of terms with KJU.
    , @plonialmoni
    How did you come by the moniker of faker?
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  37. @Felix Keverich
    You're wrong (I'm also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    Saker is talking about a principled moral opposition to capitalism as economic system (not to be confused with envy of the rich, or the entitlement mentality). This simply doesn't exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians' lifes.

    The Russians are not particularly envious people either: like I said, we've got these huge imported cars, with toned windows, blocking pavements in central Moscow, and nobody tries to puncture their tires or smash windows or anything (in Latin America, they would smash windows).

    You’re wrong (I’m also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    maybe not a “strong” opinion. but most people I know (and have met in my life in Russia) do have an opinion. and it’s really quite different from what Anatoly is trying to prove with his graphs. it’s much more like what Saker is saying (without any graphs).

    so.. even if those graphs are genuine (which is far from certain, given the very questionable sources they are from), it would just go to show that there’s “lies, damn lies, and statistics” (c).

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  38. I don’t think many people like “blatant capitalism” anywhere (whatever the hell “blatant” capitalism means).

    it really depends. in the US quite a few people actually like it. and not even the 1%-ers (which is nowadays a good deal above a $500k/year income), no, just some rather regular competitive “salarymen” as the Japanese would say, making maybe a bit over $100k in a full-time corporate job. I’ve seen this quite a few times, basically advocation for a very pronounced social Darwinism and ideas in the vein of “if the guy has billions $, he deserves them” and “if someone’s too stupid to earn enough money to feed his family, let them starve”. and I’m not joking here, I’ve actually had stuff roughly of this tone said to me by American guys.

    in Russia such ideas would really not get even a 0.01% support, probably. which is what Saker is saying.

    Russians clearly approve of free markets

    did I deny that anywhere?

    You are free to reference polls showing Russians are much less supportive of capitalism than other Europeans (i.e. what The Saker is claiming) – if you can find any

    I think such polls are quite scarce and usually done by very much the wrong people (i.e. with a clear agenda). but the elections are a good indication, in a way. if Russians really endorsed Western-style liberal capitalism, they should overwhelmingly (or at least 10% of them) vote for Western-backed guys like Navalny (ok he kinda failed at the base premise of being a non-convicted-felon) or Sobchak (bonafide ultraliberal pro-Western ultra-freemarket capitalist).

    I’ll eat my hat if Sobchak gets over 10% in this election (and I’m being really cautious there). and that says it all.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Americans are largely referring to “blacks” when they say such things. Unfortunately, and apologies to all the smart or hardworking and decent black Americans, it’s generally a fair sentiment.

    Russians would feel differently if they were weighed down with tens of millions of somewhat-to-extremely-unintelligent Africans, with characteristically high aggressiveness and low impulse control, and a multi-decade record of widespread sloth and constant filth and intimidation in their neighborhoods (and in their wake wherever they go).

    In fact, I admire Russians enough to predict that they would take forceful measures against a group of people who murder, steal, harass, intimidate, threaten everyone wherever they are, take whatever is free without shame and without even seriously TRYING to get educated and work full time, and then have the f——g “nerve” to berate their victims. To use a modern vulgar expression that fits, Russians would not put up with the africans’ shit.

    People who are offended or dismayed by such “heartless” comments by Americans about the long-term / multigenerational poor, just come live with (and near) concentrations of African-“Americans” and see the reality. If entire generations of men of a race abandon their multiple children, abandoning multiple women to permanent poverty, and then blame everyone else of every other race for their intractable problems, we eventually get tired of them and we speak the truth “harshly.”

    Having said that, even a hardworking, decent person of any race is having a harder time surviving and prospering in the USA, under both major political parties.

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  39. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Faker
    Has this guy, the Faker, who's predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida for as long as I can remember, ever been right on anything?

    I remember his analyses on the Mistral fiasco, meaning his propaganda to deflect the fact that Putin and Russia had been humiliated yet again. I remember how it was supposed to crash France's sales of military hardware, just to see France the following year hit record sales...

    The problem for the Faker and his pals online, like "1997 peak oil Orlov" or the FSB' ZeroHedge, is that propaganda has reached its limits and that Russia is now facing reality economically (severe recession in the last 2 years... oh but wait, I thought it was Ukraine that was going to tank), militarily and geopolitically (who can keep track of the allies Putin has lost in the last few years?).

    Watch the great "empire slayers" China and Russia, which, I agree with commenters above are populated by people that are obsessed with money and materialism (funny that those who say all statistics out there are fake ask for stats for a fact everyone can observer with their very own eyes), cower as Trump turns up the pressure on North Korea and Syria.

    They will drop their allies like they've done for 20 years now very single time it got too warm in the kitchen. Ask Serbia, Iraq, Lybia, Cuba and others about their great ally Putin. Why would anyone want such an ally?

    Has this guy, the Faker, who’s predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida

    This must have been written for you: http://thesaker.is/the-answer-to-the-idiots-question/

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    • Replies: @Faker
    Sure, ad hominems , to which farm trolls resort to automatically when factually on the ropes, is going to solve all of the massive problems Russia faces.
    So go ahead, it won’t change the facts, certainly not the Faker’s track record.
    Faker and his pals have just recycled the old Soviet talking point that US society is about to collapse. It used to be every day on TV in soviet homes; now it’s moved to the Internet.
    Thing is, we all remember what actually collapsed.
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  40. Seraphim says:

    Can we see here a re-enactment of the historical jousts between Slavophiles and Zapadniki, between the Old Believers and ‘Nikonians’, pseudo morphed (excuse the ‘spenglerism’) into Eurasianists and Atlantists, into Russians and not-so Russians?

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    You forgot the Rodnovery. I seem to be surrounded by them. There are farms full of them in Vladimir province.
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  41. Faker says:
    @Anonymous

    Has this guy, the Faker, who’s predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida
     
    This must have been written for you: http://thesaker.is/the-answer-to-the-idiots-question/

    Sure, ad hominems , to which farm trolls resort to automatically when factually on the ropes, is going to solve all of the massive problems Russia faces.
    So go ahead, it won’t change the facts, certainly not the Faker’s track record.
    Faker and his pals have just recycled the old Soviet talking point that US society is about to collapse. It used to be every day on TV in soviet homes; now it’s moved to the Internet.
    Thing is, we all remember what actually collapsed.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Sure, ad hominems
     
    How can the reply to a question be construed as an ad hominem? Unless, of course, you immediately recognized yourself as qualifying for being the target of the reply :-P

    You call him a Faker and then come complaining about ad hominems? LOL!
    , @RadicalCenter
    I’m an American and proud of it. But compare us to the country we had when the Soviets were predicting our downfall: we now have VASTLY higher levels of government debt, private household debt, opioid addiction, disability real and exaggerated, children born to people who never marry or even live together consistently, long-term underemployment of intelligent hardworking qualified people, infrastructure decay (failing roads and bridges), long-term welfare dependency, open hatred and intimidation or worse against whites, a Mexican “fifth column” that is being led to separatism and hostility against us (and is attaining the number to take political power and eventually secede), and more.

    We are far less socially and culturally cohesive than we were back then, in substantial part due to the suicidal decision to admit tens of millions of people of different races to settle here who do not share enough of our values, traditions, expectations, and do not have loyalty to us or our NATION.

    This includes one racial group (jewish people) and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated. This will make a critical difference in times of real scarcity and deprivation, let alone a major war.

    Whether or not it made sense to predict the usa’s collapse or impoverishment 30 or 60 years ago, it is an altogether too plausible prediction these days.

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  42. @Anatoly Karlin

    Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers.
     
    I suppose Kuzma Minin must be a figment of my imagination.

    Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     
    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/poll-east-europe-democracy-free-markets.png

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2010/01/1467-2.gif



    https://globescan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GSR10w2_2Abt_long.gif

    Those polls don’t use the definition “capitalism” in the actual questions, but terms like “freedom” and “market” which don’t necessarily conflate with Wall Street or oligarch controlled economies, which aren’t exactly an open or free market. So Saker isn’t completely off on this.

    For myself, I favor “free trade,” yet oppose global financial hegemony by relatively few powerful elites at the expense of the majority who don’t get to be a part of the cartels and hardly have any influence on the barriers to their benefiting equally from existing, controlled markets, against those with sufficient control of finance to use arbitrage to their own advantage.

    Freedom is hardly the ability of rogue elephants to crush everyone else underfoot in a closed room.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Superbly stated, Fran. The people excoriating all “capitalism” typically are not talking about real free enterprise, fair competition, and a system where big corporations and subsidy-seeking leeches aren’t favored over smaller & family businesses.

    There are several very different systems that are being carelessly called capitalism without distinction.

    I don’t want the current western system of crony-capitalist / fascist sort-of-welfare-State, either.

    The “capitalism” that we largely used to have, the one I support, does NOT involve Privileges, subsidies, bailouts, or even lower effective tax rates for wealthy “connected” people, corporations, and paper-shuffling brokers and bankers who create little of tangible value and profit from deliberately confusing complex “financial instruments” at our expense.
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    Yes, free markets, not capitalism (a political system):

    https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/capitalism-free-market-part-1/
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  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Faker
    Sure, ad hominems , to which farm trolls resort to automatically when factually on the ropes, is going to solve all of the massive problems Russia faces.
    So go ahead, it won’t change the facts, certainly not the Faker’s track record.
    Faker and his pals have just recycled the old Soviet talking point that US society is about to collapse. It used to be every day on TV in soviet homes; now it’s moved to the Internet.
    Thing is, we all remember what actually collapsed.

    Sure, ad hominems

    How can the reply to a question be construed as an ad hominem? Unless, of course, you immediately recognized yourself as qualifying for being the target of the reply :-P

    You call him a Faker and then come complaining about ad hominems? LOL!

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
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  44. Aedib says:
    @Felix Keverich

    For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics.
     
    The only alternative to western-style economics is Venezuela style economic malaise. Teachers and doctors in Venezuela are offering sexual services in exchange for food. This is what non-western economic models deliver. That's "Bolivarian socialism". You want this for Russia?

    ...not good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen. The pavements in central Moscow are littered with expensive German cars. Russian Orthodox priests are particulary fond of German cars along with their traditional penchant for gold jewelry. Their morals allow them to buy this stuff.

    he [Putin] seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.).
     
    Life expectancy in Soviet Russia piqued at 69 in 1964 and has been in a slow *decline* for the remainder of communist rule right until that system collapsed. After a crash during the 1990s, life expectancy began to recover during Putin's rule. It reached 73 years in 2017 and still rising. Government's "neoliberal" policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists.
     

    And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn't want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    Putin should not be idealized. He is a typical post-Soviet crook, who was still wise enough to pursue orthodox economic policies to prolong the longevity of his regime. This is what Putin does: he is preserving his regime. He isn't fighting any war - I have no idea where Saker got this from.

    The economics of Venezuela resembles in many issues the western-promoted liberal economics model of Ukraine. Lots of coincidences.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    I'd say the problem with the Ukraine is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation. The country has been chronically mismanaged since independence. It made a mess of its economic transition during 1990s, it was an even bigger mess than Russia's mess, and consequently Ukraine's post-communist depression was vastly more severe. Perennial political instability and later conflict with Russia didn't help, but I'm sure you know the story.
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  45. @palmtoptiger

    I don’t think many people like “blatant capitalism” anywhere (whatever the hell “blatant” capitalism means).
     
    it really depends. in the US quite a few people actually like it. and not even the 1%-ers (which is nowadays a good deal above a $500k/year income), no, just some rather regular competitive "salarymen" as the Japanese would say, making maybe a bit over $100k in a full-time corporate job. I've seen this quite a few times, basically advocation for a very pronounced social Darwinism and ideas in the vein of "if the guy has billions $, he deserves them" and "if someone's too stupid to earn enough money to feed his family, let them starve". and I'm not joking here, I've actually had stuff roughly of this tone said to me by American guys.

    in Russia such ideas would really not get even a 0.01% support, probably. which is what Saker is saying.

    Russians clearly approve of free markets
     
    did I deny that anywhere?

    You are free to reference polls showing Russians are much less supportive of capitalism than other Europeans (i.e. what The Saker is claiming) – if you can find any

     

    I think such polls are quite scarce and usually done by very much the wrong people (i.e. with a clear agenda). but the elections are a good indication, in a way. if Russians really endorsed Western-style liberal capitalism, they should overwhelmingly (or at least 10% of them) vote for Western-backed guys like Navalny (ok he kinda failed at the base premise of being a non-convicted-felon) or Sobchak (bonafide ultraliberal pro-Western ultra-freemarket capitalist).

    I'll eat my hat if Sobchak gets over 10% in this election (and I'm being really cautious there). and that says it all.

    Americans are largely referring to “blacks” when they say such things. Unfortunately, and apologies to all the smart or hardworking and decent black Americans, it’s generally a fair sentiment.

    Russians would feel differently if they were weighed down with tens of millions of somewhat-to-extremely-unintelligent Africans, with characteristically high aggressiveness and low impulse control, and a multi-decade record of widespread sloth and constant filth and intimidation in their neighborhoods (and in their wake wherever they go).

    In fact, I admire Russians enough to predict that they would take forceful measures against a group of people who murder, steal, harass, intimidate, threaten everyone wherever they are, take whatever is free without shame and without even seriously TRYING to get educated and work full time, and then have the f——g “nerve” to berate their victims. To use a modern vulgar expression that fits, Russians would not put up with the africans’ shit.

    People who are offended or dismayed by such “heartless” comments by Americans about the long-term / multigenerational poor, just come live with (and near) concentrations of African-“Americans” and see the reality. If entire generations of men of a race abandon their multiple children, abandoning multiple women to permanent poverty, and then blame everyone else of every other race for their intractable problems, we eventually get tired of them and we speak the truth “harshly.”

    Having said that, even a hardworking, decent person of any race is having a harder time surviving and prospering in the USA, under both major political parties.

    Read More
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  46. @Faker
    Sure, ad hominems , to which farm trolls resort to automatically when factually on the ropes, is going to solve all of the massive problems Russia faces.
    So go ahead, it won’t change the facts, certainly not the Faker’s track record.
    Faker and his pals have just recycled the old Soviet talking point that US society is about to collapse. It used to be every day on TV in soviet homes; now it’s moved to the Internet.
    Thing is, we all remember what actually collapsed.

    I’m an American and proud of it. But compare us to the country we had when the Soviets were predicting our downfall: we now have VASTLY higher levels of government debt, private household debt, opioid addiction, disability real and exaggerated, children born to people who never marry or even live together consistently, long-term underemployment of intelligent hardworking qualified people, infrastructure decay (failing roads and bridges), long-term welfare dependency, open hatred and intimidation or worse against whites, a Mexican “fifth column” that is being led to separatism and hostility against us (and is attaining the number to take political power and eventually secede), and more.

    We are far less socially and culturally cohesive than we were back then, in substantial part due to the suicidal decision to admit tens of millions of people of different races to settle here who do not share enough of our values, traditions, expectations, and do not have loyalty to us or our NATION.

    This includes one racial group (jewish people) and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated. This will make a critical difference in times of real scarcity and deprivation, let alone a major war.

    Whether or not it made sense to predict the usa’s collapse or impoverishment 30 or 60 years ago, it is an altogether too plausible prediction these days.

    Read More
    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Faker
    Can’t disagree with anything you said, and your post is much more constructive that the typical faker bot reply.
    But three words for you: global reserve currency. Good luck overcoming that.
    In fact China and Russia love them the green back. They cannot get enough of it. What currency does Russia exchange its valuable natural resources against again? Oh that’s right...
    , @anonymous

    This includes ... and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated.
     
    Yeah, like you white spiritual losers are any trustworthy, after the kind of mischief, plunder and murder your kind has perpetuated around the world, over centuries? The very thought is ludicrously laughable. Haha!

    But, I am not laughing, as I count the millions (possibly a billion, indirectly) your cursed kind has murdered... in the worship of your "Demon Religion" aka White Supremacy... to quench your insatiable Greed and Psychopathy. A pox has long been due on your kind.

    The rest of what you say may be true for those "chosen" cultists, but in the context of Islam and its truly universal message of True Monotheism... pure deceit.

    Inferior human beings... while your kind slaughters us for exactly that perceived "crime"? White Man's Deceit.

    , @yurivku

    I’m an American and proud of it.
     
    It's interesting to know what are you proud of? Maby with all these achivements:
    https://russia-insider.com/en/if-america-wasnt-america-united-states-would-be-bombing-it/ri22615

    I think there is a time to be ashamed of this.

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  47. peterAUS says:
    @Felix Keverich

    For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics.
     
    The only alternative to western-style economics is Venezuela style economic malaise. Teachers and doctors in Venezuela are offering sexual services in exchange for food. This is what non-western economic models deliver. That's "Bolivarian socialism". You want this for Russia?

    ...not good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen. The pavements in central Moscow are littered with expensive German cars. Russian Orthodox priests are particulary fond of German cars along with their traditional penchant for gold jewelry. Their morals allow them to buy this stuff.

    he [Putin] seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.).
     
    Life expectancy in Soviet Russia piqued at 69 in 1964 and has been in a slow *decline* for the remainder of communist rule right until that system collapsed. After a crash during the 1990s, life expectancy began to recover during Putin's rule. It reached 73 years in 2017 and still rising. Government's "neoliberal" policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists.
     

    And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn't want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    Putin should not be idealized. He is a typical post-Soviet crook, who was still wise enough to pursue orthodox economic policies to prolong the longevity of his regime. This is what Putin does: he is preserving his regime. He isn't fighting any war - I have no idea where Saker got this from.

    A very good comment, IMHO.
    Keep them coming, please.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Just to clarify.

    Some of us reading/posting here would like to read a reality of Russia.
    In today's paradigm that's extremely hard to get.

    At one side there is The Empire's effort to picture Russia as the Bad Opponent. That's why people tend to read alternative views, as found on sites like this.
    At the other side, as expected, there is an organized effort by the regime in Moscow to counter that effort.
    Finding reality between those two is proving...difficult, for an average citizen in West.

    We can see the similar, or the same, principle here.

    So, it's refreshing, and I find useful to read somebody who is:
    -in Russia, Russian and has Russian interests at heart. An average Russian living in Russia that is.
    -not a Putin fanboy.
    -not a Westerner.

    You appear to be one of those rare specimens on Internet.

    So, you'll get attacked a lot around. A very good sign.
    Still, keep posting.

    BTW, there is the ignore option here. Using it, wisely, could be a good thing.
    , @Sergey Krieger
    You likes to listen what you want to hear. from few his posts I already see his opinion represents himself and very few other. Basically his opinion means nothing.
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  48. @Fran Macadam
    Those polls don't use the definition "capitalism" in the actual questions, but terms like "freedom" and "market" which don't necessarily conflate with Wall Street or oligarch controlled economies, which aren't exactly an open or free market. So Saker isn't completely off on this.

    For myself, I favor "free trade," yet oppose global financial hegemony by relatively few powerful elites at the expense of the majority who don't get to be a part of the cartels and hardly have any influence on the barriers to their benefiting equally from existing, controlled markets, against those with sufficient control of finance to use arbitrage to their own advantage.

    Freedom is hardly the ability of rogue elephants to crush everyone else underfoot in a closed room.

    Superbly stated, Fran. The people excoriating all “capitalism” typically are not talking about real free enterprise, fair competition, and a system where big corporations and subsidy-seeking leeches aren’t favored over smaller & family businesses.

    There are several very different systems that are being carelessly called capitalism without distinction.

    I don’t want the current western system of crony-capitalist / fascist sort-of-welfare-State, either.

    The “capitalism” that we largely used to have, the one I support, does NOT involve Privileges, subsidies, bailouts, or even lower effective tax rates for wealthy “connected” people, corporations, and paper-shuffling brokers and bankers who create little of tangible value and profit from deliberately confusing complex “financial instruments” at our expense.

    Read More
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  49. @Aedib
    The economics of Venezuela resembles in many issues the western-promoted liberal economics model of Ukraine. Lots of coincidences.

    I’d say the problem with the Ukraine is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation. The country has been chronically mismanaged since independence. It made a mess of its economic transition during 1990s, it was an even bigger mess than Russia’s mess, and consequently Ukraine’s post-communist depression was vastly more severe. Perennial political instability and later conflict with Russia didn’t help, but I’m sure you know the story.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Aedib
    is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation.

    That's the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin's Russia; 90s Argentina and so on. Always the "inconsistent implementation"pretext. It seems that extremely opposite economic ideologies (Chavism and (neo)liberalism) end exactly in the same place: chaos.

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  50. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS
    A very good comment, IMHO.
    Keep them coming, please.

    Just to clarify.

    Some of us reading/posting here would like to read a reality of Russia.
    In today’s paradigm that’s extremely hard to get.

    At one side there is The Empire’s effort to picture Russia as the Bad Opponent. That’s why people tend to read alternative views, as found on sites like this.
    At the other side, as expected, there is an organized effort by the regime in Moscow to counter that effort.
    Finding reality between those two is proving…difficult, for an average citizen in West.

    We can see the similar, or the same, principle here.

    So, it’s refreshing, and I find useful to read somebody who is:
    -in Russia, Russian and has Russian interests at heart. An average Russian living in Russia that is.
    -not a Putin fanboy.
    -not a Westerner.

    You appear to be one of those rare specimens on Internet.

    So, you’ll get attacked a lot around. A very good sign.
    Still, keep posting.

    BTW, there is the ignore option here. Using it, wisely, could be a good thing.

    Read More
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  51. Faker says:
    @RadicalCenter
    I’m an American and proud of it. But compare us to the country we had when the Soviets were predicting our downfall: we now have VASTLY higher levels of government debt, private household debt, opioid addiction, disability real and exaggerated, children born to people who never marry or even live together consistently, long-term underemployment of intelligent hardworking qualified people, infrastructure decay (failing roads and bridges), long-term welfare dependency, open hatred and intimidation or worse against whites, a Mexican “fifth column” that is being led to separatism and hostility against us (and is attaining the number to take political power and eventually secede), and more.

    We are far less socially and culturally cohesive than we were back then, in substantial part due to the suicidal decision to admit tens of millions of people of different races to settle here who do not share enough of our values, traditions, expectations, and do not have loyalty to us or our NATION.

    This includes one racial group (jewish people) and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated. This will make a critical difference in times of real scarcity and deprivation, let alone a major war.

    Whether or not it made sense to predict the usa’s collapse or impoverishment 30 or 60 years ago, it is an altogether too plausible prediction these days.

    Can’t disagree with anything you said, and your post is much more constructive that the typical faker bot reply.
    But three words for you: global reserve currency. Good luck overcoming that.
    In fact China and Russia love them the green back. They cannot get enough of it. What currency does Russia exchange its valuable natural resources against again? Oh that’s right…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi

    But three words for you: global reserve currency. Good luck overcoming that.
     
    The dollar's status as the global reserve currency depends heavily on oil being sold only for dollars. Most countries have to accumulate a large amount of USD in order to buy that oil, and that reinforces the dollar's status as the world's reserve currency. However, three of the top oil countries (Venezuela, Iran, Russia) are ready to trade in Yuan. If this practice spreads, the dollar's days as the top reserve currency will be numbered.

    In fact China and Russia love them the green back. They cannot get enough of it.
     
    China's dollar reserves have gone from over $3 trillion down to $1 trillion.

    What currency does Russia exchange its valuable natural resources against again? Oh that’s right…
     
    Soon, Russia will start accepting Yuan for its oil.
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  52. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers.
     
    I suppose Kuzma Minin must be a figment of my imagination.

    Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     
    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/poll-east-europe-democracy-free-markets.png

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2010/01/1467-2.gif



    https://globescan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GSR10w2_2Abt_long.gif

    Kuzma Minin was considered a hero in Russia not because of his status as a businessman, but because of his role in organizing a volunteer army to face a Polish invasion, ie his patriotic performance. He was not a Cornelius Vanderbildt, J.P. Morgan or Cecil Rhodes, admired in the West for being rich.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Kuzma Minin is one of the great representatives of the classical merchant/warrior Russian archetype. The point is that there was no contradiction between making money and expressing martial valor (the same couldn't actually be said of many European states, e.g. France, where the First Estate [nobles] were restricted from participating in commercial or industrial ventures - more in theory than in practice, admittedly).

    The people you reference came from a totally different era of history defined by burgeoning capitalism. Not comparable.

    Moreover, I do not even see how they are very relevant, since not many Americans particularly "admire" the robber barons. Americans do admire self-made businessmen, of whom there are aplenty (from Edison and Ford then, to Musk, Jobs, Gates, etc. today).

    You can count their Russian equivalents, whose achievements are far more modest anyway, on the fingers of your hands (e.g. Kaspersky, Galitsky).

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc. celebrate, which repressed independent enterprise only to give away the accumulated wealth accruing to 70 years of Russian toil and sweat to a small clique of mystery meat two-timers at the very end.
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  53. Aedib says:
    @Felix Keverich
    I'd say the problem with the Ukraine is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation. The country has been chronically mismanaged since independence. It made a mess of its economic transition during 1990s, it was an even bigger mess than Russia's mess, and consequently Ukraine's post-communist depression was vastly more severe. Perennial political instability and later conflict with Russia didn't help, but I'm sure you know the story.

    is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation.

    That’s the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin’s Russia; 90s Argentina and so on. Always the “inconsistent implementation”pretext. It seems that extremely opposite economic ideologies (Chavism and (neo)liberalism) end exactly in the same place: chaos.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    That’s the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin’s Russia; 90s Argentina and so on.

     

    That's not true at all. There have been successful transformations as well: Czechia, Poland, to name a few in post-communist Europe. Kazakhstan is much more successful than other Central Asian stans. Estonia is more successful than Latvia and Lithuania...

    Poland's level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine's. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.
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  54. @Faker
    Has this guy, the Faker, who's predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida for as long as I can remember, ever been right on anything?

    I remember his analyses on the Mistral fiasco, meaning his propaganda to deflect the fact that Putin and Russia had been humiliated yet again. I remember how it was supposed to crash France's sales of military hardware, just to see France the following year hit record sales...

    The problem for the Faker and his pals online, like "1997 peak oil Orlov" or the FSB' ZeroHedge, is that propaganda has reached its limits and that Russia is now facing reality economically (severe recession in the last 2 years... oh but wait, I thought it was Ukraine that was going to tank), militarily and geopolitically (who can keep track of the allies Putin has lost in the last few years?).

    Watch the great "empire slayers" China and Russia, which, I agree with commenters above are populated by people that are obsessed with money and materialism (funny that those who say all statistics out there are fake ask for stats for a fact everyone can observer with their very own eyes), cower as Trump turns up the pressure on North Korea and Syria.

    They will drop their allies like they've done for 20 years now very single time it got too warm in the kitchen. Ask Serbia, Iraq, Lybia, Cuba and others about their great ally Putin. Why would anyone want such an ally?

    The Saker might be an ideologue who has predicted all ten of America’s (and Ukraine’s) past zero collapses, but unfortunately, so are you.

    Facts:

    1. Russia’s recession was pretty mild, and ended more than a year ago, anyway. And the Ukraine’s economy did tank during 2014-15, to a much greater degree than Russia’s.

    2. It is entirely possible that without Russia’s intervention that the Assad regime would have been gone by now, so it remains to be seen whether Russia has succeeded or failed there. As things stand today, Russia’s balance of success in Syria is modestly positive, although with the potential to go sharply negative.

    3. Your observations on North Korea seem to lack basic comprehension of the situation there. Hint: The Chinese aren’t exactly on the best of terms with KJU.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Faker
    1. It was Russia's longest recession in a hundred years, from 2014 to 2017 (THREE years, that's right three years of contraction... even the 2008 downturn did not have that kind of impact in the west). Auto sales plummeting double-digits, Rosfnet income cratering, Russia's RTS index falling 30%, inflation in double-digits, etc. It was a total disaster and by all account it WAS the collapse that Faker, Orlov and the FSB's ZeroHedge have been selling all those years. I can only imagine the impact on the average Russian household considering the average Russian income (roughly $400 a month... no wonder Faker is not leaving Florida anytime soon).
    And actually, after 2 quarters of growth, things are looking shaky again. If the U.S. moves the WC to another country, the Russian economy is toast.
    2. I'll let the news of the day speak for itself (Assad will learn something Novorussian are all too familiar with).
    3. They simply are not ALLOWED to be on good terms with whomever the North Korean leader might be as long as Wall Street does not approve of said leader. Trump says "jump" and Xi says "how high?"

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that "empire slayer" propaganda they've concocted for about a decade now.

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  55. @anon
    Kuzma Minin was considered a hero in Russia not because of his status as a businessman, but because of his role in organizing a volunteer army to face a Polish invasion, ie his patriotic performance. He was not a Cornelius Vanderbildt, J.P. Morgan or Cecil Rhodes, admired in the West for being rich.

    Kuzma Minin is one of the great representatives of the classical merchant/warrior Russian archetype. The point is that there was no contradiction between making money and expressing martial valor (the same couldn’t actually be said of many European states, e.g. France, where the First Estate [nobles] were restricted from participating in commercial or industrial ventures – more in theory than in practice, admittedly).

    The people you reference came from a totally different era of history defined by burgeoning capitalism. Not comparable.

    Moreover, I do not even see how they are very relevant, since not many Americans particularly “admire” the robber barons. Americans do admire self-made businessmen, of whom there are aplenty (from Edison and Ford then, to Musk, Jobs, Gates, etc. today).

    You can count their Russian equivalents, whose achievements are far more modest anyway, on the fingers of your hands (e.g. Kaspersky, Galitsky).

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc. celebrate, which repressed independent enterprise only to give away the accumulated wealth accruing to 70 years of Russian toil and sweat to a small clique of mystery meat two-timers at the very end.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc.
     
    LOL, we get it! You are the only "real" (official) Russian at Unz. All others are peddlers of fake ________ (fill the blanks).

    You really must feel insecure and threatened to feel the urge to spend so much time dissing them every time they write something all instead of writing something halfway interesting on your own, like a big boy.

    Why don't you impress us and write something worth reading instead of barking up the passing caravans?
    , @anon
    The idea of ​​success at any cost, trampling on other people, has always been popular in the United States. Little or nothing ethical types like Milken and Jordan Belfort have had many admirers in the United States.
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  56. @Aedib
    is not too many liberal reforms, but their inconsistent implementation.

    That's the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin's Russia; 90s Argentina and so on. Always the "inconsistent implementation"pretext. It seems that extremely opposite economic ideologies (Chavism and (neo)liberalism) end exactly in the same place: chaos.

    That’s the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin’s Russia; 90s Argentina and so on.

    That’s not true at all. There have been successful transformations as well: Czechia, Poland, to name a few in post-communist Europe. Kazakhstan is much more successful than other Central Asian stans. Estonia is more successful than Latvia and Lithuania…

    Poland’s level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine’s. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

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    • Replies: @Aedib
    I don’t think so. Main driving forces for Czechia and Poland were Eurofunds and relocation of German industry there. Kazakhstan development path is more related to authoritarian capitalism, China style, rather than to Milton Friedman’s mythology.
    , @Dmitry

    Poland’s level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine’s. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

     

    Poland received hundreds of billions of dollars in EU subsidies and transfers. Not a fair comparison. Even still today they are receiving this transfer of wealth from net contributor countries in the EU (there's another good reason EU became unpopular in net contributor countries like the UK and the Netherlands):

    https://msp.gov.pl/en/polish-economy/economic-news/4015,Poland-to-get-nearly-EUR-106-bln-from-2014-2020-EU-budget-pool-expected-impact-o.html
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  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Kuzma Minin is one of the great representatives of the classical merchant/warrior Russian archetype. The point is that there was no contradiction between making money and expressing martial valor (the same couldn't actually be said of many European states, e.g. France, where the First Estate [nobles] were restricted from participating in commercial or industrial ventures - more in theory than in practice, admittedly).

    The people you reference came from a totally different era of history defined by burgeoning capitalism. Not comparable.

    Moreover, I do not even see how they are very relevant, since not many Americans particularly "admire" the robber barons. Americans do admire self-made businessmen, of whom there are aplenty (from Edison and Ford then, to Musk, Jobs, Gates, etc. today).

    You can count their Russian equivalents, whose achievements are far more modest anyway, on the fingers of your hands (e.g. Kaspersky, Galitsky).

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc. celebrate, which repressed independent enterprise only to give away the accumulated wealth accruing to 70 years of Russian toil and sweat to a small clique of mystery meat two-timers at the very end.

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc.

    LOL, we get it! You are the only “real” (official) Russian at Unz. All others are peddlers of fake ________ (fill the blanks).

    You really must feel insecure and threatened to feel the urge to spend so much time dissing them every time they write something all instead of writing something halfway interesting on your own, like a big boy.

    Why don’t you impress us and write something worth reading instead of barking up the passing caravans?

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    • Disagree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Project much?

    Pointing out that traveling to russia a couple of times doesn't make you an authority on russian politics doesn't sound like the product of someone who is "threatened".

    Do you know what strikes me as insecure? The saker has a position he knows is so indefensible that he has to post on his echo chamber a memo saying anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot. Maybe he should take up a job weaving invisible clothes for the emperor. He will find a ready market in the drones that populate his website.

    And yes the hypocrisy of raging on and on about the "Evil" empire while living in florida sucking off uncle sam's tit is very relevant in gauging the motivations of someone who has little interest in presenting objective facts.

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  58. pyrrhus says:

    Russia is the only country that more than replaced its oil reserves last year, and it will be doing that for quite a while…Worldwide, the replacement rate was about 11%..This will become incredibly important as the decades pass.

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  59. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    But that is not due to Russian culture, but to the sovok culture that The Saker, Martyanov, Israel Shamir, etc.
     
    LOL, we get it! You are the only "real" (official) Russian at Unz. All others are peddlers of fake ________ (fill the blanks).

    You really must feel insecure and threatened to feel the urge to spend so much time dissing them every time they write something all instead of writing something halfway interesting on your own, like a big boy.

    Why don't you impress us and write something worth reading instead of barking up the passing caravans?

    Project much?

    Pointing out that traveling to russia a couple of times doesn’t make you an authority on russian politics doesn’t sound like the product of someone who is “threatened”.

    Do you know what strikes me as insecure? The saker has a position he knows is so indefensible that he has to post on his echo chamber a memo saying anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot. Maybe he should take up a job weaving invisible clothes for the emperor. He will find a ready market in the drones that populate his website.

    And yes the hypocrisy of raging on and on about the “Evil” empire while living in florida sucking off uncle sam’s tit is very relevant in gauging the motivations of someone who has little interest in presenting objective facts.

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  60. Faker says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    The Saker might be an ideologue who has predicted all ten of America's (and Ukraine's) past zero collapses, but unfortunately, so are you.

    Facts:

    1. Russia's recession was pretty mild, and ended more than a year ago, anyway. And the Ukraine's economy did tank during 2014-15, to a much greater degree than Russia's.

    2. It is entirely possible that without Russia's intervention that the Assad regime would have been gone by now, so it remains to be seen whether Russia has succeeded or failed there. As things stand today, Russia's balance of success in Syria is modestly positive, although with the potential to go sharply negative.

    3. Your observations on North Korea seem to lack basic comprehension of the situation there. Hint: The Chinese aren't exactly on the best of terms with KJU.

    1. It was Russia’s longest recession in a hundred years, from 2014 to 2017 (THREE years, that’s right three years of contraction… even the 2008 downturn did not have that kind of impact in the west). Auto sales plummeting double-digits, Rosfnet income cratering, Russia’s RTS index falling 30%, inflation in double-digits, etc. It was a total disaster and by all account it WAS the collapse that Faker, Orlov and the FSB’s ZeroHedge have been selling all those years. I can only imagine the impact on the average Russian household considering the average Russian income (roughly $400 a month… no wonder Faker is not leaving Florida anytime soon).
    And actually, after 2 quarters of growth, things are looking shaky again. If the U.S. moves the WC to another country, the Russian economy is toast.
    2. I’ll let the news of the day speak for itself (Assad will learn something Novorussian are all too familiar with).
    3. They simply are not ALLOWED to be on good terms with whomever the North Korean leader might be as long as Wall Street does not approve of said leader. Trump says “jump” and Xi says “how high?”

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.

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    • Replies: @Cyrano

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.
     
    To that I would say why shoot someone while he is busy committing suicide. As for loyalty to their allies, US has done helluva job for theirs – they swarmed Europe with refugees, forced down their throats the stupid ideology of multiculturalism, dragged them into unnecessary wars – like Afghanistan. Who has done more to betray their allies – US or Russia?
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    More specifically, it was half a year of contraction from mid 2014 - a whopping ~3.5% of GDP - followed by a two year stagnation (-0.2% GDP growth in 2016) - followed by recovery from the start of 2017.

    This is compared to a -10% recession during 2008-2009, and a -40% depression in the 1990s.

    The impact on living standards was extremely modest, since it was only the prices of imported goods that significantly went up relative to incomes. Also, inflation has never been lower in Russia's post-Soviet history.

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.
     
    That The Saker, ZeroHedge, etc. have been concocting - which has about as little relation to Russia, China, reality in general, etc. as your ramblings.
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  61. Cyrano says:
    @Faker
    1. It was Russia's longest recession in a hundred years, from 2014 to 2017 (THREE years, that's right three years of contraction... even the 2008 downturn did not have that kind of impact in the west). Auto sales plummeting double-digits, Rosfnet income cratering, Russia's RTS index falling 30%, inflation in double-digits, etc. It was a total disaster and by all account it WAS the collapse that Faker, Orlov and the FSB's ZeroHedge have been selling all those years. I can only imagine the impact on the average Russian household considering the average Russian income (roughly $400 a month... no wonder Faker is not leaving Florida anytime soon).
    And actually, after 2 quarters of growth, things are looking shaky again. If the U.S. moves the WC to another country, the Russian economy is toast.
    2. I'll let the news of the day speak for itself (Assad will learn something Novorussian are all too familiar with).
    3. They simply are not ALLOWED to be on good terms with whomever the North Korean leader might be as long as Wall Street does not approve of said leader. Trump says "jump" and Xi says "how high?"

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that "empire slayer" propaganda they've concocted for about a decade now.

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.

    To that I would say why shoot someone while he is busy committing suicide. As for loyalty to their allies, US has done helluva job for theirs – they swarmed Europe with refugees, forced down their throats the stupid ideology of multiculturalism, dragged them into unnecessary wars – like Afghanistan. Who has done more to betray their allies – US or Russia?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Faker
    I cannot disagree with you. But I'm not comparing countries. I am talking about the balance of power. And it's not because western nations are cesspools that we have to pretend Russia is Eden and Putin a Greek God or something.
    , @Kiza
    You are not wrong but you are pointing a finger at a wrong people. It is not US who has done this to Europe then the Zionist Bolshevics/Neocons running US and nominally the US Empire. You speak of the treatment of US allies, but the same ideologues are flogging their main US workhorse to its financial death. Finally, the same group projected themselves into the stories of Hitler’s hubris, whilst theirs is unmatched in the history of humanity.

    Parasites which kill their main host and all associated hosts and themselves (in a real nuclear holocaust) in the process. A little bit of modesty and they could have ruled the World.
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  62. @peterAUS
    A very good comment, IMHO.
    Keep them coming, please.

    You likes to listen what you want to hear. from few his posts I already see his opinion represents himself and very few other. Basically his opinion means nothing.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    You likes to listen what you want to hear.
     
    At least I don't censor/ban anyone as the author of this article. You...anyone...can write anything you/they want.

    I already see his opinion represents himself and very few other.
     
    I see. The number of people supporting some opinion is important. Funny.

    Basically his opinion means nothing.
     
    To you and probably millions of people of this planet too. Good.

    It means something, so far, to me, and probably a couple of other guys too. That's the point.
    Free speech brother.Making your own call based on input. Exactly what he mentioned in his comments here, BTW.
    I know, hard concept to get from "over there".

    Anyway....you "ignore" him. And me, of course.
    I do it all the time with some other people around.

    Free will.
    Hard concept to get too?

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  63. Faker says:
    @Cyrano

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.
     
    To that I would say why shoot someone while he is busy committing suicide. As for loyalty to their allies, US has done helluva job for theirs – they swarmed Europe with refugees, forced down their throats the stupid ideology of multiculturalism, dragged them into unnecessary wars – like Afghanistan. Who has done more to betray their allies – US or Russia?

    I cannot disagree with you. But I’m not comparing countries. I am talking about the balance of power. And it’s not because western nations are cesspools that we have to pretend Russia is Eden and Putin a Greek God or something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cyrano
    To that I would say that as long as Russia is Eden for the Russians – that’s all that matters. It’s irrelevant, actually it’s even highly desirable that Russia remains “unattractive” to anyone but the Russians – to prevent being overrun by multiculturalists like the west is.

    Also, as long as Putin is enough of a Greek god to the Russians so they continue to vote for him – who cares if the west likes him. To the twisted minds in the west – a leader of any country in the world is good only if their moral highnesses of the west approve of him/her. That’s baloney, a leader of any country in the world is good only if the people of his own country approve of him.
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  64. Cyrano says:
    @Faker
    I cannot disagree with you. But I'm not comparing countries. I am talking about the balance of power. And it's not because western nations are cesspools that we have to pretend Russia is Eden and Putin a Greek God or something.

    To that I would say that as long as Russia is Eden for the Russians – that’s all that matters. It’s irrelevant, actually it’s even highly desirable that Russia remains “unattractive” to anyone but the Russians – to prevent being overrun by multiculturalists like the west is.

    Also, as long as Putin is enough of a Greek god to the Russians so they continue to vote for him – who cares if the west likes him. To the twisted minds in the west – a leader of any country in the world is good only if their moral highnesses of the west approve of him/her. That’s baloney, a leader of any country in the world is good only if the people of his own country approve of him.

    Read More
    • Agree: bluedog
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  65. Seraphim says:

    Where Saker is absolutely right is that: “Russia is at war with the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that this war is roughly 80% informational, 15% economic and 5% kinetic does not make it less real or less dangerous”. As it always was. The themes of the anti-Russian propaganda have been fabricated long, very long ago.

    Russia has to be made to look bad, bad, very bad. The country is the backward shithole it always was, occupied by a bunch of barbaric drunkards, old Russia was a medieval obscurantist tyranny, Peter the Great was bad, modernization of Russia was bad, the Czars were bad, Stalin was bad, Putin is the worse. Only the revolution was good as long as it was manned by the ‘internationale’, but it was taken over by the barbaric Russians. Communism was bad, what followed was bad, what is now is worse than anything. Russians crave for money and despise money at the same time. They crave for western cheese, and at the same time they cut their ties with that source of goodies.
    Anything good (or only reasonable) said about Russia are lies, Potemkiniads.
    And in the end the Testament of Peter the Great would be produced. Look what they are really up to! We must defend ourselves and prevent this deadly morass to spill over, nah we must drain it and sanitize the land.

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  66. peterAUS says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    You likes to listen what you want to hear. from few his posts I already see his opinion represents himself and very few other. Basically his opinion means nothing.

    You likes to listen what you want to hear.

    At least I don’t censor/ban anyone as the author of this article. You…anyone…can write anything you/they want.

    I already see his opinion represents himself and very few other.

    I see. The number of people supporting some opinion is important. Funny.

    Basically his opinion means nothing.

    To you and probably millions of people of this planet too. Good.

    It means something, so far, to me, and probably a couple of other guys too. That’s the point.
    Free speech brother.Making your own call based on input. Exactly what he mentioned in his comments here, BTW.
    I know, hard concept to get from “over there”.

    Anyway….you “ignore” him. And me, of course.
    I do it all the time with some other people around.

    Free will.
    Hard concept to get too?

    Read More
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  67. Knee-jerking Eltsin’s memory does not obscure the fact that it was he who broke the ancien regime nomenklatura and plucked VVPutin out of obscurity.

    Let us hope that Putin is as perceptive in the choice of his successor.
    .

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  68. Glossy says: • Website
    @Andrei Martyanov

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong
     
    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all--he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian "nationalist" since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    I agree completely. Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you’re doing a great job.

    I’ll explain to everyone what kind of “nationalist” Karlin is. In America every neocon publication claims to be pro-American. They talk about American exceptionalism, defending American interests around the world. It’s just dust that they throw in your eyes. They hate America. Don’t be fooled, folks.

    I’m not Russian, but I know a few things about that country. The sort of rhetoric that Karlin uses, his loyalties, all of his neocon worldview: that’s the most Russophobic stuff on earth.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you’re doing a great job.
     
    As I recall, that's not what you were saying when you contributed more than 1,000 comments to my blog between 2010 and 2017.
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  69. @Faker
    1. It was Russia's longest recession in a hundred years, from 2014 to 2017 (THREE years, that's right three years of contraction... even the 2008 downturn did not have that kind of impact in the west). Auto sales plummeting double-digits, Rosfnet income cratering, Russia's RTS index falling 30%, inflation in double-digits, etc. It was a total disaster and by all account it WAS the collapse that Faker, Orlov and the FSB's ZeroHedge have been selling all those years. I can only imagine the impact on the average Russian household considering the average Russian income (roughly $400 a month... no wonder Faker is not leaving Florida anytime soon).
    And actually, after 2 quarters of growth, things are looking shaky again. If the U.S. moves the WC to another country, the Russian economy is toast.
    2. I'll let the news of the day speak for itself (Assad will learn something Novorussian are all too familiar with).
    3. They simply are not ALLOWED to be on good terms with whomever the North Korean leader might be as long as Wall Street does not approve of said leader. Trump says "jump" and Xi says "how high?"

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that "empire slayer" propaganda they've concocted for about a decade now.

    More specifically, it was half a year of contraction from mid 2014 – a whopping ~3.5% of GDP – followed by a two year stagnation (-0.2% GDP growth in 2016) – followed by recovery from the start of 2017.

    This is compared to a -10% recession during 2008-2009, and a -40% depression in the 1990s.

    The impact on living standards was extremely modest, since it was only the prices of imported goods that significantly went up relative to incomes. Also, inflation has never been lower in Russia’s post-Soviet history.

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.

    That The Saker, ZeroHedge, etc. have been concocting – which has about as little relation to Russia, China, reality in general, etc. as your ramblings.

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  70. Yevardian says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I’m also Russian
     
    Really? You sound like the mouthpiece of Echo Matzy.

    This simply doesn’t exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians’ lifes.
     
    So, what you say is tantamount to Russians not having in them a concept of good or bad, right or wrong. You see, also in accordance to James Clapper Russians are genetically predespositioned for penetrating, subverting--what have you. In general, Russians are untemensch. Have you tried to peddle your Russian "expertise" to CNN or MSNBC? I am sure you and Masha Gessen have a lot in common, so New Yorker or NYT may also be a consideration. I know hundreds of people in Russia and most of them do have concepts of right and wrong--and they come from different walks of life. Have you tried to change your social environment maybe? To get a better handle on reality or are you so "Russian" that you post a blatant lie and an open insult to the whole nation and think that this is normal?

    I believe what Mr. Keverich was clumsily trying to express was that Russians don’t quite the same black-and-white, Manichean, moral crusader mentality as that of many Americans.
    I agree with gist of your argument, but you’re being overly defensive and churlish. Perhaps meeting so many Americanised Russians abroad has left a sour taste.

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  71. kemerd says:

    I agree with Saker in that Putin is neo-liberal but disagree on the part that Putin believes in social democracy. My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms. It is, BTW, why I think Putin’s responses to American aggression is muted, or that he still does not get rid of 5th columnists: he really does not want to alienate them totally and waits for a faction in western elite to take over that would recognize Russian oligarchy as equals. In my view, this is never going to happen: as Saker frequently points out, because of the cultural tendencies of the west, they have never considered Russia as equal partners and will never do. In fact, the only reason they could not suck the blood of Russia to the bone and let the country slip from their fingers is their total disregard for the interests of Russian elites which do want their country and themselves be regarded as equals to their western partners.

    However, this is their main weakness: they cannot beat imperialists on their own game. The correct course of action is to fully reject them: i.e. withdrawal from IMF, World Bank, and other financial institutions, placing controls on the transfer of capital, nationalizing strategic industries, etc. Obviously, these are actions which will reduce the power of the oligarchy in Russia and thus impossible to implement by Putin (unless an open conflict with the west forces him to do so to put the economy in complete war footing). Incidentally, Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics. And, such leaders could not care less what the westerners think and write about them, unlike Putin

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    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Agree, up to

    Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics.
     
    Just don't see anything related to "communism" having any practical future in former "communist" countries. in foreseeable future.
    , @Kiza
    Absolutely great insight, I agree with Saker but even more with you. I would venture a suggestion that, although with quite different complexities, the same would apply to China and its elite. The AngloZionist elite would never accept the Russian or the Chinese elite as equals and this is the main reason that a global alliance of the powerful against the powerless will never happen, despite being predicted by so many authors. I would speculate that one of the main reasons is the Jewish view of others as goyim or cattle - would you consider a leading bull of a heard as equal to yourself? It is a barrier. The Anglo elite is only less blunt about this, but not much different.

    It is funnily ironic how one cultural feature of the current rulers of the World is going to generate a bipolar World and a clash of two empires.

    In essence, what Saker and you are saying is that Putin has done fantastic things for Russia but he is a man of the past who has reached his personal limits and Russia is in a need of a new leader to take her to the next stage. But there is no such on the horizon - that is the key issue of the forthcoming Russian election.
    , @utu

    My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms.
     
    This how I also see it. For this reason I was always skeptical of those who put hopes in Putin's Russia as a genuine opponent of the Zio-Amercian Empire. Putin actions and in-actions should be understood as playing for time and gaining some leverage for a better position at the negotiating table. They want to sit at the sam table with the Empire while the Empire still sees them as dish to be consumed at this table.
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    It probably shouldn’t be forgotten that Putin’s government did make “Holocaust” denial illegal.
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  72. Che Guava says:

    Good evening, the Saker.

    I distinctly recall you having an article posted here a week or two ago that was full of praise and hope for Grudinin.

    Sure, anybody can change his or her mind, but as a commentator rather than a commenter, you should have mentioned your earlier opinion, and said a little more about why you changed your mind.

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.

    In any case, anyone on Unz for a while knows that you never reply to comments here, probably don’t even read them, so the only people who will read this will be other commenters.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    the Saker praising Grudinin?!
    that was not the Saker, it was Israel Shamir
    , @Aedib

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.
     
    After-Putin fear seems a little bit exaggerated. A FSB guy should be similarly competent, even a little bit more. I would like to see Bortnikov after him but he has the same age. Think in someone like him but younger.
    , @prusmc
    Foftunately, the US is not like Russia. When the current Potus is removed, we have a stable of quality people ready to take the helm: Biden, Opra, Murphy, Kamala, Kaine, Booker, Schumer, Sanders, Sherod (wife beater) Brown as well as HRC to be a modern day Jennings Bryan.
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  73. Are Putin et al going to go into hyperventilation-mode about American meddling in the Russian elections before or after the election? Maybe they can indict some bigwigs at Google, FaceBag and Twitter for taking long lunches to conspire against Russia on behalf of the Empire.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    I strongly suspect that the Russians prefer to leave the honor of making yourself look really stupid to the US. Therefore, Russia would not do anything nearing the level of self-harm inflicted by the US elites.
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  74. 9You were not talking about free will while pretending to try to free former socialist countries from so called commie tyrany by planning to nuke them into oblivion and when that option was off the table constantly keeping the tensions up and intervening everywhete killing millions. Do not try your free will on me. First stop sticking your collective nose where it does not belong. Felix represents small sliver of society that are basically so far from reality that makes their opinion worthless. Not only that but worst enemies of the soviet people came from this part of society that led directly to situation when so many former Soviet people are not where they were born and supposed to live and Russia yet again having to go through hard times and restoration.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    You touched a big and serious topic. To properly discuss it we'd need a day in person, at least. Probably several days.

    Well....I'll say just this:
    You are correct with The Empire's betrayal of Soviet peoples (or, better, peoples behind the Wall). As a matter of fact the same Empire betrayed its own people, or at least majority of them and keep doing that.

    You are not correct equalizing Western ideal with The Empire, though.

    You are correct in


    Felix represents small sliver of society
     
    Some people, probably also a small sliver of society, in West, believes that tiny minority in Russia is on the right track to make things better for an average citizen there and the world in general.

    As to


    led directly to situation when so many former Soviet people are not where they were born and supposed to live and Russia yet again having to go through hard times and restoration
     
    the same tiny minority in West and Russia believes it is nomenclatura/olygarchs/the obscene top there, which is to blame.
    And those are result of something deeper in Russia culture, even psyche.
    The idea is that, by changing that underlying layer, there won't be any of those "obscene on top" of that type.

    So, you are welcome to stick to your thoughts and ideas, post, comments, whatever.

    And we, that tiny minority, will stick to ours as well.

    Free will and free speech.
    For now.

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  75. Kiza says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    That is a lot of words to say nothing.
     
    As long as this "nothing" is not a BS, this is just fine with me.

    Please let me call out for your inconsistency – you say that he is below your level but you keep engaging in a discussion with this aggresive and stupid mug who probably has a worthless graph for when he should go to toilet.

    Nevertheless, I personally benefited from your explanations because I am not Russian and could not counter such character as you can.

    Personally, what I find most stupid from this clown is how he draws inferences from the data in front of him, here is one little example: “Indeed, the USSR was one of the very few industrialized countries to see a sustained rise in infant mortality outside of wartime. So obviously lack of neoliberalism per se has fuck all to do with good LE performance or health outcomes in general.” Therefore, one case (real or propaganda created) of decreased life expectancy is sufficient to prove that neoliberalism cannot be (also) associated with the drop in life-expectancy.

    From the assumed non-correlation the self-esteemed scientist Karlin draws a non-causation which fits his ideological bias. The only mitigating factor is that the West is full of “statisticians” such as Karlin, thus his lack of understanding of what he is talking about does not stand out in such environment. As someone who worked a lot with statistical data I have a title for such people: data bamboozlers – they bamboozle themselves and their lessers with their quasi-learned explanations of the data collected. An even more common dumb error of such people is to disregard the bias in data collection. As long as data say what those want them to say then the bias does not exist. This is, for example, how Hillary lead in all polls before the election.

    Karlin’s little comment above is so out of the ballpark that even on its own (I do not read his rubbish writings) would immediately classify him as a worthless dill, not worth reading or engaging in a discussion with.

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  76. Kiza says:
    @Cyrano
    Democracy is a serious business and I don’t think it should be left to amateurs like the Russians to decide who is going to be their next president.

    Because let’s face it, in the last election they had the simplest of choices – only 2 candidates – and they still managed to elect the wrong one – Trump.

    If the Russians have any common decency left – they should allow the Americans to return the favor – and let THEM elect the next Russian president. Like they did it in the 90’s with Yeltsin.

    That’s all the Americans are asking for – give them another chance to elect a Russian president and the Russians may never need another one.

    The problem is not that US swamp dwellers want to elect the President of Russia, the problem is that a group of the so called Russians want to help them in that noble endeavour and are very actively trolling the self-determination writers such as the Saker. Even many US people support self-determination of other countries, but the Russian neo-liberals are craving for the AngloZionist masters, to put them into positions of power.

    For the similar trash in the country I came from, I used to say: They are the patriots who want to come back to their home country on top of a US tank waving the US flag of freedom.

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    • Agree: Cyrano
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  77. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Che Guava
    Good evening, the Saker.

    I distinctly recall you having an article posted here a week or two ago that was full of praise and hope for Grudinin.

    Sure, anybody can change his or her mind, but as a commentator rather than a commenter, you should have mentioned your earlier opinion, and said a little more about why you changed your mind.

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.

    In any case, anyone on Unz for a while knows that you never reply to comments here, probably don't even read them, so the only people who will read this will be other commenters.

    the Saker praising Grudinin?!
    that was not the Saker, it was Israel Shamir

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Thank you for the accurate correction.

    Mea culpa.
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  78. The usual mass of irrelevant detail designed to bog the discussion down. The message is just a re-hash of the author’s standard message: Vladimir Putin is good. I hooted with laughter at Putin’s “superb foreign policy”.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Maybe you should have been braying with laughter, it would have suited you better. Putin’s foreign policy is pretty admirable and thanks to it you and I are all still alive.
    , @Dmitry
    As typical for the website. A not particularly serious article but - followed by interesting debates or arguments in comments underneath it.
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  79. @Fran Macadam
    Those polls don't use the definition "capitalism" in the actual questions, but terms like "freedom" and "market" which don't necessarily conflate with Wall Street or oligarch controlled economies, which aren't exactly an open or free market. So Saker isn't completely off on this.

    For myself, I favor "free trade," yet oppose global financial hegemony by relatively few powerful elites at the expense of the majority who don't get to be a part of the cartels and hardly have any influence on the barriers to their benefiting equally from existing, controlled markets, against those with sufficient control of finance to use arbitrage to their own advantage.

    Freedom is hardly the ability of rogue elephants to crush everyone else underfoot in a closed room.

    Yes, free markets, not capitalism (a political system):

    https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/capitalism-free-market-part-1/

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  80. Aedib says:
    @Felix Keverich

    That’s the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin’s Russia; 90s Argentina and so on.

     

    That's not true at all. There have been successful transformations as well: Czechia, Poland, to name a few in post-communist Europe. Kazakhstan is much more successful than other Central Asian stans. Estonia is more successful than Latvia and Lithuania...

    Poland's level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine's. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

    I don’t think so. Main driving forces for Czechia and Poland were Eurofunds and relocation of German industry there. Kazakhstan development path is more related to authoritarian capitalism, China style, rather than to Milton Friedman’s mythology.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    No. Poland managed a doubling of GDP before joining the EU. There was a bad 18 months of high unemployment and then things took off again. Unlike Russia, Ukraine didn't even attempt serious privatisation. It was all crony capitalism. No free markets in anything serious.
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  81. Aedib says:
    @Che Guava
    Good evening, the Saker.

    I distinctly recall you having an article posted here a week or two ago that was full of praise and hope for Grudinin.

    Sure, anybody can change his or her mind, but as a commentator rather than a commenter, you should have mentioned your earlier opinion, and said a little more about why you changed your mind.

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.

    In any case, anyone on Unz for a while knows that you never reply to comments here, probably don't even read them, so the only people who will read this will be other commenters.

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.

    After-Putin fear seems a little bit exaggerated. A FSB guy should be similarly competent, even a little bit more. I would like to see Bortnikov after him but he has the same age. Think in someone like him but younger.

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  82. @Anatoly Karlin

    Russian heroes can be monastics or soldiers, but never businessmen or bankers.
     
    I suppose Kuzma Minin must be a figment of my imagination.

    Slick move, but not one good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     
    The Saker should really stop presenting his own opinions as the opinions of Russians.

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/poll-east-europe-democracy-free-markets.png

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2010/01/1467-2.gif



    https://globescan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GSR10w2_2Abt_long.gif

    Anatoly pulls up the Faker again. The Faker needs to look at the data and get some ground level experience before writing another word about Russia and Russians. Let’s have him on America.

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  83. @Anonymous
    Minin's fame hardly came from the fact that he was a butcher's son or a successful trader, but from the fact that as a military commander he helped liberate Moscow from the Poles.

    You should really stop presenting PEW polls (or any such polls, we all know how accurate they are, who pays for them and what their purpose is) as the opinions of Russians.

    The Romanov’s themselves were successful merchants. Then there is Ermakov extracting furs as tribute, not even paying for them.

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  84. @Andrei Martyanov
    Karlin, if you didn't get the message yet, I repeat--most of your "sources" and statistics is a collection of BS. Using Economist as any metric about Russia--forgive me, find nearest kindergarten, try to preach your gospel there.

    Is alcohol restriction totalitarian or neo liberal? Perhaps its neither.

    Disdain for wealth in Russia might have a gender bias. Women usually manage the household budget in my observation and many seem to rank a man by the brand and age of his car more obviously than in the UK.

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  85. @Andrei Martyanov

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.
     
    Yes, I left the remnants of USSR in my early 30s, being a grown up man and having some experiences in my life of which you can not even conceive. This is apart from losing everything we had in Azerbaijan. Feel the difference? Per your graphs--Karlin, how do you think if Western major institutes: economic, intelligence, military, to name a few, provided the world with a whopper of a failure to predict and forecast correctly most of the dynamics in post 9-11 world, with complete implosion of the so called American Russia expertdom being the most strategically and historically consequential, what should be my attitude to them. Mind you, those people, unlike you, many of them have a plethora of Ph.D degrees in all kinds of fields, publish regularly and yet--all they knew, including their "statistics", turned out to be a complete crap--both about the West and, especially, Russia. How much do you think am I interested in discussing anything with pundit like you on the subject of which you have no grasp whatsoever and use the same methods which are completely discredited by now? Do you remember this:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you. I'll be deliberately blunt--you simply lack academic, experience and other faculties required for understanding these issues. If the whole massive American Russia "study" field, with all of its massive inputs of academe, humint, signint, analytical institutions, think-tankdom couldn't figure it out and failed miserably, what do you think is your input and place in all that? Some graphs from dubious sources, with dubious statistics, some data manipulation, some tendentious ideas and some dubious political views totally detached from reality? You have your audience and God bless but don't expect not to be called out. Your voice on Russia has the same worth as that of Anne Applebaum, Julia Ioffe or Masha Gessen. Absolutely the same.

    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist “It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty”. Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

    Anatoly speaks English with a Russian accent and he has gone to Russia to live. So I value his thoughts far about Saker’s babblings.

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    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist “It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty”. Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

     

    The charts and 'statistics' are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers' ranting in (I admit) impressive English. It doesn't mean that there are anything authoritative to conclusions drawn from these 'statistics'. It is still interesting to see them and he does a service to the internet by posting them here. As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions. If he runs as a politician, I would not vote for him or understand what he actually thinks. But the guy has a valuable talent to generate the interesting discussion and comments, and which is probably the more important thing in blogging.
    , @Ivan K.
    That's the same Lord Kelvin who proclaimed "There is nothing new to be discovered in physics" except more precise measurements of what is known, and that heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.

    It is often better to proceed from experience than from statistics.

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  86. @jimbojones

    There is no credible opposition to Putin because he does not allow it.
     
    That's logic reminiscent of "your wife doesn't admit you're beating her because she's afraid of your fist" and "Trump must have stolen the election because he could never possibly have won".
    And the assertion that "Anyone that is a threat to his regime is murdered or jailed" is just that - an assertion.

    Putin repaired Russia's economy, reinforced Russian values, and scored significant geopolitical victories. He has been successful on all fronts - economic, cultural, and foreign policy. That, combined with his presentability, is why he is so popular. Same as why FDR was popular in Depression & WW2-era America. And same as why Merkel is still Chancellor in Germany. (Her tenure is comparable to Putin's.)

    Long-term democratic rule by successful parties and individuals is a thing. Famous success stories such as Sweden and Japan went for decades under the same ruling party. Singapore did just fine under the guidance of Lee Kuan Yew.

    Now, Putin is no Lee Kuan Yew; and Russia is no Singapore. But that's another topic.

    I have said this many times since I first put it forward on Untimely Thoughts (Peter Lavelle’s now defunct group for Russian specialists in 2008. Putin is closest to De Gaulle, complete with botched decolonization. United Russia is very Gaullist except that the religious wing is strong. You will see others recycle this.

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  87. Jason Liu says:

    Of interest: China just removed term limits for President Xi. Just like that.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/25/world/asia/china-xi-jinping.html

    Russia next?

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  88. @Sergey Krieger
    He is still enigma after so many years in power. He is very careful and as you said once thoughtful. Hence I am trying to look at overall picture. Improvements are there especially in defence industry and military. But constant smearing campaign on tv of the soviet past. Putin throwing here and there opinions about Lenin and Stalin. Closure of mausoleum on May 9. Education. I see very contradictory signs. What exactly he meant by paternalism? People who took everything throwing few bones. How paternalism even possible with so much stolen and offshore. Where is resources? I think a lot is concentrated on this ownership and privatization thing and basically the road Russia is going to continue on. I have no clue where Putin is taking Russia. Liberal project has been terrible failure. Putin just opened few pages from the soviet project and there is progress. I believe the time is to revisit the whole book. Too much good things there to just let it lay idle considering it was overall success in building state and providing people with most important things obviously with improvements. But That's my musing. Putin next term is a done deal. Next 6 years will be decisive. I also wonder about your words about possible provocations from the partners. Is their real red lines which would tequire real response. After all time comes where real response is needed. They might actually do things that not acting really strong might undermine Putin standing with people.

    I disagree. Where there is a competitive market economy there have been improvements. The major places to find corruption are in the state sector.

    I deal mostly with private companies. There has been reform after reform. It is no longer possible to steal a company by waving a gun at the receptionist and taking the stamps (often kept at reception so that visitors can have their travel documents stamped to show they really arrived there). There are many kinds of sausages on the shelves. Some people chose to pay 30 Rub a kilo for French potatoes others pay 6 Rub for Belarussian ones or those from a pensioners dacha (not so many selling like that now).

    It’s a long time since I met anyone complaining about quarter pay or no pay at all for 6 months. The problem is too little competition not too much, Saratov Airlines being an example. A cash machine for its owners.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    I have never heard of sausage being one of the more important things in human life. On the other hand shelter, medicine, education, stability in employment and confidence in the future are. In every aspect i just mentioned situation in russia is not rosy and from what I hear far worse than it used to be. Let's take shelter. People now have to go into life long dent slavery to get place to live. Considering lack of normal rentals many have no choice. It used to be that people were getting their apartments for free usually after few years of work and your truly got one bedroom apartment immediately upon graduation along with position. Unfortunately it was summer 1991. I was the last generatìon who suffered this miserable destiny. Now people are so very happy to get some loan and go shopping with greater freedom of choice to get something and then having to pay 2-3 time more than they borrowed over 30 years of the mortgage term. I would not even go into other expenses related to having shelter. It used to be truffles in Soviet times. Situation is still greatly eased by Soviet era apartments being trasfered from grandparents and parents to siblings. Just wait when this resource left from soviet times finally dries out. Medicine and education..... want to go there with your private capitalistic being better. Confidence in the future? Stability at work? Sure, it was all worth it to have 200 sausages which probably barely contains any meat.
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  89. @Seraphim
    Can we see here a re-enactment of the historical jousts between Slavophiles and Zapadniki, between the Old Believers and 'Nikonians', pseudo morphed (excuse the 'spenglerism') into Eurasianists and Atlantists, into Russians and not-so Russians?

    You forgot the Rodnovery. I seem to be surrounded by them. There are farms full of them in Vladimir province.

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  90. @Aedib
    I don’t think so. Main driving forces for Czechia and Poland were Eurofunds and relocation of German industry there. Kazakhstan development path is more related to authoritarian capitalism, China style, rather than to Milton Friedman’s mythology.

    No. Poland managed a doubling of GDP before joining the EU. There was a bad 18 months of high unemployment and then things took off again. Unlike Russia, Ukraine didn’t even attempt serious privatisation. It was all crony capitalism. No free markets in anything serious.

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  91. @Felix Keverich

    For one thing, many Russians are deeply opposed to the neo-liberal policies of the Medvedev government and even though Putin talks a very social talk, the sad reality is that he also is clearly a proponent of western-style economics.
     
    The only alternative to western-style economics is Venezuela style economic malaise. Teachers and doctors in Venezuela are offering sexual services in exchange for food. This is what non-western economic models deliver. That's "Bolivarian socialism". You want this for Russia?

    ...not good enough for a nation and culture which has always been strongly social and collectivistic, which instinctively feels that capitalism and individualism are morally repugnant, and practically unsustainable, and which views the accumulation of capital as something profoundly immoral.
     

    You speak like someone who never lived in post-communist Russia. The Russians CRAVE money, and do not hesitate to flaunt their wealth in front of their less well-off contrymen. The pavements in central Moscow are littered with expensive German cars. Russian Orthodox priests are particulary fond of German cars along with their traditional penchant for gold jewelry. Their morals allow them to buy this stuff.

    he [Putin] seems to have somewhat of a phobia of anything which could remind somebody of Soviet-era policies even when these policies were clearly superior to what we see today in Russia (say in education, health, fundamental science, social programs, etc.).
     
    Life expectancy in Soviet Russia piqued at 69 in 1964 and has been in a slow *decline* for the remainder of communist rule right until that system collapsed. After a crash during the 1990s, life expectancy began to recover during Putin's rule. It reached 73 years in 2017 and still rising. Government's "neoliberal" policies made this possible: they actually encouraged Russians to lead more healthy lifestyles.

    Whatever may be the case, I don’t think that anybody will deny that most Russian people would be happy if the entire “economic block” of the Medvedev regime would be fired (or jailed or, even better, summarily executed by a firing squad) and replaced by much more “left/socialist/communist” leaning economists.
     

    And this is why economic policy cannot not be decided by popular opinion. A typical Russian is ignorant about economics and government finance. A typical Russian doesn't want responsibility for these decisions anyway. He would rather let someone else (some authority figure) make these choices for him. This is why real democracy cannot work in Russia.

    Putin should not be idealized. He is a typical post-Soviet crook, who was still wise enough to pursue orthodox economic policies to prolong the longevity of his regime. This is what Putin does: he is preserving his regime. He isn't fighting any war - I have no idea where Saker got this from.

    That is obviously your very Ameerikun point of view. But it is sadly screwed by CNN/BBC, etc. The Saker is very close to the heart of things. Hey, but don’t take my point of view…I only come from the same place Elon Musk hails from. So we actually know nothing…

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  92. Kiza says:
    @Michael Kenny
    The usual mass of irrelevant detail designed to bog the discussion down. The message is just a re-hash of the author’s standard message: Vladimir Putin is good. I hooted with laughter at Putin’s “superb foreign policy”.

    Maybe you should have been braying with laughter, it would have suited you better. Putin’s foreign policy is pretty admirable and thanks to it you and I are all still alive.

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  93. @Glossy
    I agree completely. Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you're doing a great job.

    I'll explain to everyone what kind of "nationalist" Karlin is. In America every neocon publication claims to be pro-American. They talk about American exceptionalism, defending American interests around the world. It's just dust that they throw in your eyes. They hate America. Don't be fooled, folks.

    I'm not Russian, but I know a few things about that country. The sort of rhetoric that Karlin uses, his loyalties, all of his neocon worldview: that's the most Russophobic stuff on earth.

    Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you’re doing a great job.

    As I recall, that’s not what you were saying when you contributed more than 1,000 comments to my blog between 2010 and 2017.

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    I argued with you for most of that time.
    , @Gerard2
    Well this is interesing....Martyanov, The Saker, Nina Byzantina, the Kremlin stooge lot, Glossy....all of them deep russophiles ( giving the Saker a break for this appalling article), all appear to have terribly bad social-network relation with Anatoly Karlin and view his "pro-Russia" credentials with contempt. Could they all be wrong ?

    Don't know
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  94. Glossy says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Karlin is the same exact thing as Masha Gessen. The way to fight these people is with information. Andrei/Smoothie, you’re doing a great job.
     
    As I recall, that's not what you were saying when you contributed more than 1,000 comments to my blog between 2010 and 2017.

    I argued with you for most of that time.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    I argued with you for most of that time.
     
    This is clearly incorrect.

    I should say that that photograph was first brought to my attention by Anatoly Karlin who runs a great blog about Russia called Da Russophile. - Glossy, Jan 2014

    Anatoly, I hope you’re OK and that you can return to blogging soon. - Glossy, Oct 2016

    Actual timeline:

    2010-15/16 - You consider me "a great blogger," I am one of about five on your own blogroll (and I reciprocate in kind)

    2016/17 - You become increasingly preoccupied with anti-Soviet neocons and your rather strange theory that Stalin was a conservative (indeed commenting about little else). And yes, we start arguing more frequently (though most of your disputes are actually with AP).

    July 2017 - You get very triggered by an anti-Stalin comment (!) I made on Twitter (that was not even addressed to you in particular) on his killings of Russian geneticists:

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/881647274421477377

    ... and proceed to state that I am an "anti-sovok bastard" (okay, I plead guilty - please give me the chance to leave on a philosopher's ship when you seize power), demand I remove your blog from my blogroll (which I comply with), and Block me.

    Though not before repeating that you did actually like my blog:

    https://twitter.com/Glossophiliac75/status/881703061458178049

    Believe it or not, I bear no ill will towards you, and I appreciate your contributions over the years. However, I can't let such blatant misrepresentations stand.
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  95. prusmc says: • Website
    @Che Guava
    Good evening, the Saker.

    I distinctly recall you having an article posted here a week or two ago that was full of praise and hope for Grudinin.

    Sure, anybody can change his or her mind, but as a commentator rather than a commenter, you should have mentioned your earlier opinion, and said a little more about why you changed your mind.

    I agree on Putin, he is very able but not perfect, and when he is gone, I fear for Russia. However, a worthy new prospect may well arrive.

    In any case, anyone on Unz for a while knows that you never reply to comments here, probably don't even read them, so the only people who will read this will be other commenters.

    Foftunately, the US is not like Russia. When the current Potus is removed, we have a stable of quality people ready to take the helm: Biden, Opra, Murphy, Kamala, Kaine, Booker, Schumer, Sanders, Sherod (wife beater) Brown as well as HRC to be a modern day Jennings Bryan.

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    • LOL: Kiza, Che Guava
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Bruce, sorry Caitlyn Jenner or Bradley, sorry Chelsea Manning for Prex? Then the U.S.A. will really be going somewhere, although where, I do not know.
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  96. Ha ha says:
    @Cyrano
    Democracy is a serious business and I don’t think it should be left to amateurs like the Russians to decide who is going to be their next president.

    Because let’s face it, in the last election they had the simplest of choices – only 2 candidates – and they still managed to elect the wrong one – Trump.

    If the Russians have any common decency left – they should allow the Americans to return the favor – and let THEM elect the next Russian president. Like they did it in the 90’s with Yeltsin.

    That’s all the Americans are asking for – give them another chance to elect a Russian president and the Russians may never need another one.

    LOL! LOL!!

    Sure, once Americans set up democracy in any country, that country will never again need anything else. That is the one sure advantage of being dead.

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  97. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong
     
    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all--he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian "nationalist" since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    Well, being a Russian I do confirm that Saker takes too much to speak for all Russians. So does Karlin, but he’s a liberal so it’s not a surprise. For you to know – liberals are most hated part of society (if not to speak about gays).

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  98. Ha ha says:

    The one sure thing about Russia and them Russians is that if you want to trigger a free-for-all fist fight just mention Russia or Russians. Will work in most American settings. Will equally certainly work in Russian settings – as is evident here by the number of acrimonious posts between Russians.

    The Chinese are cleverer. They no talk, no fight, just make more money.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Ok, so when you, the Chinese, make enough money, you will be accepted by the Owners of the World, and your financial interests will be respected?

    Just as in Libya perhaps, how many billions of dollars of your investment did you lose again?
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  99. peterAUS says:
    @kemerd
    I agree with Saker in that Putin is neo-liberal but disagree on the part that Putin believes in social democracy. My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms. It is, BTW, why I think Putin’s responses to American aggression is muted, or that he still does not get rid of 5th columnists: he really does not want to alienate them totally and waits for a faction in western elite to take over that would recognize Russian oligarchy as equals. In my view, this is never going to happen: as Saker frequently points out, because of the cultural tendencies of the west, they have never considered Russia as equal partners and will never do. In fact, the only reason they could not suck the blood of Russia to the bone and let the country slip from their fingers is their total disregard for the interests of Russian elites which do want their country and themselves be regarded as equals to their western partners.

    However, this is their main weakness: they cannot beat imperialists on their own game. The correct course of action is to fully reject them: i.e. withdrawal from IMF, World Bank, and other financial institutions, placing controls on the transfer of capital, nationalizing strategic industries, etc. Obviously, these are actions which will reduce the power of the oligarchy in Russia and thus impossible to implement by Putin (unless an open conflict with the west forces him to do so to put the economy in complete war footing). Incidentally, Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics. And, such leaders could not care less what the westerners think and write about them, unlike Putin

    Agree, up to

    Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics.

    Just don’t see anything related to “communism” having any practical future in former “communist” countries. in foreseeable future.

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  100. Kiza says:
    @kemerd
    I agree with Saker in that Putin is neo-liberal but disagree on the part that Putin believes in social democracy. My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms. It is, BTW, why I think Putin’s responses to American aggression is muted, or that he still does not get rid of 5th columnists: he really does not want to alienate them totally and waits for a faction in western elite to take over that would recognize Russian oligarchy as equals. In my view, this is never going to happen: as Saker frequently points out, because of the cultural tendencies of the west, they have never considered Russia as equal partners and will never do. In fact, the only reason they could not suck the blood of Russia to the bone and let the country slip from their fingers is their total disregard for the interests of Russian elites which do want their country and themselves be regarded as equals to their western partners.

    However, this is their main weakness: they cannot beat imperialists on their own game. The correct course of action is to fully reject them: i.e. withdrawal from IMF, World Bank, and other financial institutions, placing controls on the transfer of capital, nationalizing strategic industries, etc. Obviously, these are actions which will reduce the power of the oligarchy in Russia and thus impossible to implement by Putin (unless an open conflict with the west forces him to do so to put the economy in complete war footing). Incidentally, Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics. And, such leaders could not care less what the westerners think and write about them, unlike Putin

    Absolutely great insight, I agree with Saker but even more with you. I would venture a suggestion that, although with quite different complexities, the same would apply to China and its elite. The AngloZionist elite would never accept the Russian or the Chinese elite as equals and this is the main reason that a global alliance of the powerful against the powerless will never happen, despite being predicted by so many authors. I would speculate that one of the main reasons is the Jewish view of others as goyim or cattle – would you consider a leading bull of a heard as equal to yourself? It is a barrier. The Anglo elite is only less blunt about this, but not much different.

    It is funnily ironic how one cultural feature of the current rulers of the World is going to generate a bipolar World and a clash of two empires.

    In essence, what Saker and you are saying is that Putin has done fantastic things for Russia but he is a man of the past who has reached his personal limits and Russia is in a need of a new leader to take her to the next stage. But there is no such on the horizon – that is the key issue of the forthcoming Russian election.

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    • Replies: @TT

    AngloZionist elite would never accept the Russian or the Chinese elite as equals and this is the main reason that a global alliance of the powerful against the powerless will never happen, despite being predicted by so many authors.
     
    I beg to differ. It always happen, already happened, they probably regularly sitting together sipping wine & discussing how to squander more money together from each other countries. Greed has no border and nationality. The one who can help you make money is your most honored god.

    But the Anglozionist decided they have better chance this time to take all Russia oligarchs wealth too. Like mafias, dog eat dog.

    In essence, what Saker and you are saying is that Putin has done fantastic things for Russia but he is a man of the past who has reached his personal limits and Russia is in a need of a new leader to take her to the next stage. But there is no such on the horizon – that is the key issue of the forthcoming Russian election.
     
    If today Putin stepped down or lost election to go holiday enjoy his well deserved stash $B, they will cry...a good leader required long extensive experience to run a complex Russia with many power play. If he is that bad as some said Putin can easily make more money by selling whole Russia to US, and migrate off.

    Russia at present is simply not in luxury for a game of 5yrs On-Job-Training for new untested Pres. Another Yeltsin will ruin Russia to no turning back. Look at how EU all the new inexperienced leaders messing up. Pray Putin can find a successor to be groomed over time.

    Only US can sustain whatever nonsense Potus, bcos its the biggest evil empire.
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  101. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners.
     
    I think he is slightly more complex--recall his arrival to power in 2000 (after being officially elected). First two things he does:

    1. Writes a serious article on Russian paternalism and its role in history;
    2. Receives (first, mind you) in Kremlin both Chikin (Sovetskay Rossya) and Prokhanov (Zavtra).

    Speaks volumes. Then, his literally two-three days ago statement about national strength in collectivism. He doesn't worry about elections--he knows his numbers, so it is not pandering to electorate. What is there? I don't know. But remember this--huge provocation is highly probable prior to elections. Ukraine? Syria? Don't know but judging by the level of hatred towards him in the West and in some fringe circles of Russians--it is not a game. They DO hate him precisely because overwhelming majority of Russians supports him.

    I wouldn’t say overwhelming majority supports him. But yes, probably a majority, most of which just afraid of changes.

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  102. peterAUS says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    9You were not talking about free will while pretending to try to free former socialist countries from so called commie tyrany by planning to nuke them into oblivion and when that option was off the table constantly keeping the tensions up and intervening everywhete killing millions. Do not try your free will on me. First stop sticking your collective nose where it does not belong. Felix represents small sliver of society that are basically so far from reality that makes their opinion worthless. Not only that but worst enemies of the soviet people came from this part of society that led directly to situation when so many former Soviet people are not where they were born and supposed to live and Russia yet again having to go through hard times and restoration.

    You touched a big and serious topic. To properly discuss it we’d need a day in person, at least. Probably several days.

    Well….I’ll say just this:
    You are correct with The Empire’s betrayal of Soviet peoples (or, better, peoples behind the Wall). As a matter of fact the same Empire betrayed its own people, or at least majority of them and keep doing that.

    You are not correct equalizing Western ideal with The Empire, though.

    You are correct in

    Felix represents small sliver of society

    Some people, probably also a small sliver of society, in West, believes that tiny minority in Russia is on the right track to make things better for an average citizen there and the world in general.

    As to

    led directly to situation when so many former Soviet people are not where they were born and supposed to live and Russia yet again having to go through hard times and restoration

    the same tiny minority in West and Russia believes it is nomenclatura/olygarchs/the obscene top there, which is to blame.
    And those are result of something deeper in Russia culture, even psyche.
    The idea is that, by changing that underlying layer, there won’t be any of those “obscene on top” of that type.

    So, you are welcome to stick to your thoughts and ideas, post, comments, whatever.

    And we, that tiny minority, will stick to ours as well.

    Free will and free speech.
    For now.

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  103. @Philip Owen
    I disagree. Where there is a competitive market economy there have been improvements. The major places to find corruption are in the state sector.

    I deal mostly with private companies. There has been reform after reform. It is no longer possible to steal a company by waving a gun at the receptionist and taking the stamps (often kept at reception so that visitors can have their travel documents stamped to show they really arrived there). There are many kinds of sausages on the shelves. Some people chose to pay 30 Rub a kilo for French potatoes others pay 6 Rub for Belarussian ones or those from a pensioners dacha (not so many selling like that now).

    It's a long time since I met anyone complaining about quarter pay or no pay at all for 6 months. The problem is too little competition not too much, Saratov Airlines being an example. A cash machine for its owners.

    I have never heard of sausage being one of the more important things in human life. On the other hand shelter, medicine, education, stability in employment and confidence in the future are. In every aspect i just mentioned situation in russia is not rosy and from what I hear far worse than it used to be. Let’s take shelter. People now have to go into life long dent slavery to get place to live. Considering lack of normal rentals many have no choice. It used to be that people were getting their apartments for free usually after few years of work and your truly got one bedroom apartment immediately upon graduation along with position. Unfortunately it was summer 1991. I was the last generatìon who suffered this miserable destiny. Now people are so very happy to get some loan and go shopping with greater freedom of choice to get something and then having to pay 2-3 time more than they borrowed over 30 years of the mortgage term. I would not even go into other expenses related to having shelter. It used to be truffles in Soviet times. Situation is still greatly eased by Soviet era apartments being trasfered from grandparents and parents to siblings. Just wait when this resource left from soviet times finally dries out. Medicine and education….. want to go there with your private capitalistic being better. Confidence in the future? Stability at work? Sure, it was all worth it to have 200 sausages which probably barely contains any meat.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    In every aspect i just mentioned situation in russia is not rosy and from what I hear far worse than it used to be.
     
    Statistics below MORE to avoid cluttering up this thread.


    shelter
     
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/genby/30544598/802877/802877_original.png

    medicine
     
    http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/russia-life-expectancy-1959-2017.png

    education
     
    Hard to measure, but IQ is going up:

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ipras-iq-russia.jpg

    stability in employment
     
    Okay, USSR "wins" here. You had to really "try" to be fired there. Results: Extreme lack of productivity and overmanning, destruction of work ethic, etc.

    confidence in the future
     
    http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/russia-happiness-vciom-1990-2016.png
    , @Philip Owen
    In Saratov, a 30 square metre flat which costs 5 million roubles to buy costs 10,000 roubles a month to rent. That is across the city, not just the centre. Renting is a very good deal compared to buying even at a subsidized 6.5%. Russia is not Moscow.

    I do meet single young Russians on modest wages who think that they should be able to have their own flat immediately they find a job. This was never possible in the UK and it was never possible in Russian except in exceptional cases like new Monotowns. Kommunikali were important for most people I have met who left their parents before marriage, just as bedsits (a room in a shared house) were for British people of my generation. Modern young Brits expect to share a rented house.
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  104. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @RadicalCenter
    I’m an American and proud of it. But compare us to the country we had when the Soviets were predicting our downfall: we now have VASTLY higher levels of government debt, private household debt, opioid addiction, disability real and exaggerated, children born to people who never marry or even live together consistently, long-term underemployment of intelligent hardworking qualified people, infrastructure decay (failing roads and bridges), long-term welfare dependency, open hatred and intimidation or worse against whites, a Mexican “fifth column” that is being led to separatism and hostility against us (and is attaining the number to take political power and eventually secede), and more.

    We are far less socially and culturally cohesive than we were back then, in substantial part due to the suicidal decision to admit tens of millions of people of different races to settle here who do not share enough of our values, traditions, expectations, and do not have loyalty to us or our NATION.

    This includes one racial group (jewish people) and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated. This will make a critical difference in times of real scarcity and deprivation, let alone a major war.

    Whether or not it made sense to predict the usa’s collapse or impoverishment 30 or 60 years ago, it is an altogether too plausible prediction these days.

    This includes … and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated.

    Yeah, like you white spiritual losers are any trustworthy, after the kind of mischief, plunder and murder your kind has perpetuated around the world, over centuries? The very thought is ludicrously laughable. Haha!

    But, I am not laughing, as I count the millions (possibly a billion, indirectly) your cursed kind has murdered… in the worship of your “Demon Religion” aka White Supremacy… to quench your insatiable Greed and Psychopathy. A pox has long been due on your kind.

    The rest of what you say may be true for those “chosen” cultists, but in the context of Islam and its truly universal message of True Monotheism… pure deceit.

    Inferior human beings… while your kind slaughters us for exactly that perceived “crime”? White Man’s Deceit.

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  105. Che Guava says:
    @Anonymous
    the Saker praising Grudinin?!
    that was not the Saker, it was Israel Shamir

    Thank you for the accurate correction.

    Mea culpa.

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  106. Kiza says:
    @Cyrano

    As I said reality is catching up now and China and Russia can no longer hide behind that “empire slayer” propaganda they’ve concocted for about a decade now.
     
    To that I would say why shoot someone while he is busy committing suicide. As for loyalty to their allies, US has done helluva job for theirs – they swarmed Europe with refugees, forced down their throats the stupid ideology of multiculturalism, dragged them into unnecessary wars – like Afghanistan. Who has done more to betray their allies – US or Russia?

    You are not wrong but you are pointing a finger at a wrong people. It is not US who has done this to Europe then the Zionist Bolshevics/Neocons running US and nominally the US Empire. You speak of the treatment of US allies, but the same ideologues are flogging their main US workhorse to its financial death. Finally, the same group projected themselves into the stories of Hitler’s hubris, whilst theirs is unmatched in the history of humanity.

    Parasites which kill their main host and all associated hosts and themselves (in a real nuclear holocaust) in the process. A little bit of modesty and they could have ruled the World.

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  107. @Glossy
    I argued with you for most of that time.

    I argued with you for most of that time.

    This is clearly incorrect.

    I should say that that photograph was first brought to my attention by Anatoly Karlin who runs a great blog about Russia called Da Russophile. – Glossy, Jan 2014

    Anatoly, I hope you’re OK and that you can return to blogging soon. – Glossy, Oct 2016

    Actual timeline:

    2010-15/16 – You consider me “a great blogger,” I am one of about five on your own blogroll (and I reciprocate in kind)

    2016/17 – You become increasingly preoccupied with anti-Soviet neocons and your rather strange theory that Stalin was a conservative (indeed commenting about little else). And yes, we start arguing more frequently (though most of your disputes are actually with AP).

    July 2017 – You get very triggered by an anti-Stalin comment (!) I made on Twitter (that was not even addressed to you in particular) on his killings of Russian geneticists:

    … and proceed to state that I am an “anti-sovok bastard” (okay, I plead guilty – please give me the chance to leave on a philosopher’s ship when you seize power), demand I remove your blog from my blogroll (which I comply with), and Block me.

    Though not before repeating that you did actually like my blog:

    Believe it or not, I bear no ill will towards you, and I appreciate your contributions over the years. However, I can’t let such blatant misrepresentations stand.

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    Most of the time I did argue with you. About the legality of drugs and the harmfulness of homosexuality, about HBD, Freud, planned versus market economies, etc. You always took the liberal position. The first comment I remember making on your old site was about your social liberalism. I wrote that I was liberal too at your age, and that I would have appreciated if someone had challenged my beliefs then.

    I take back the nice things. I'm human, so I make mistakes. Your side is evil. You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner is grotesque. Your side has caused so much suffering for so many innocent people. You're allied with the forces that pulled off 1917 and 1991 and which are planning a third act now. I wish you and yours failure in all your endeavors.

    You can pretend to hate Lenin all you want, but the revolution was made by exactly the kind of people who use the word "sovok" now, exactly the kind who were anti-Soviet in the 1980s. It's not a weird connection to make. Millions of people have noticed this. Labels change, realities remain.

    And when you're pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.

    Why doesn't your side, SiP, Gessen, Applebaum, etc. embrace Lenin, Trotsky, etc. now? Cowardice, dishonesty, expediency. I remember when the movement to which you belong did embrace him. In the late 1980s the liberalizing trend explained itself to the public as getting back to Lenin's ideas. Which was at least honest. The first iteration of Solzhenitsin's BS, back around the time of the war, was "getting back to Lenin after Stalin perverted his ideas".

    And even if we disregard what happened after 1917, even if we only look at the 1990s, your side destroyed so much. And all of your attempts to portray the late USSR as dysfunctional are excuses. What you're saying is "we didn't didn't break it, it was already broken before us." You're legitimizing that excuse, made by all of those thieves and murderers. You're illustrating it with graphs, writing a legal brief for the worst criminals of our time.

    And I don't know what's the deal with you personally. Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are? I'm not clairvoyant. There's certainly a market for people who say what you say. There are powerful interests who want such messages to get out, and I don't think you have another job. But there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push.

    I'm tired of debating all of this with you. I may not even check back on this discussion later. It's unpleasant, and I have things to do. Smoothie is made of sterner stuff - not surprising, given his profession - so he can bear you for longer.
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  108. Kiza says:
    @Ha ha
    The one sure thing about Russia and them Russians is that if you want to trigger a free-for-all fist fight just mention Russia or Russians. Will work in most American settings. Will equally certainly work in Russian settings - as is evident here by the number of acrimonious posts between Russians.

    The Chinese are cleverer. They no talk, no fight, just make more money.

    Ok, so when you, the Chinese, make enough money, you will be accepted by the Owners of the World, and your financial interests will be respected?

    Just as in Libya perhaps, how many billions of dollars of your investment did you lose again?

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    • Replies: @utu
    Agree on Libya: 30,000 Chinese work evacuated. But I do not agree on oligarch elites of Russia and China. The plan is to turn them and absorb them.
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  109. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Don’t believe the writer for a second. He comes here and paint a colony, Russia, in a good light to fool the dummies. Why Russia does not face the mass murderers, Israel and US, more forcefully. If Russia and Jew lover, Putin, cannot do it then he must fuck off from Syria. Muslims cannot tolerate another Russia and Putin. How many times Russia wants to SELL MUSLIMS TO THE CRIMINAL WEST AND BABY KILLERS, ZIONISTS, and FOR A FEW BONES. We have not forgotten how Russia and traitor Putin SOLD LIBYA. Today, Putin still is COOPERATING WITH CRIMINALS, US AND ISRAEL, to keep the interest of his masters, the Zionist jews. Putin must face it or fuck off now. He cannot turn Syria into different zone of interest and collude with the terrorist Erdogan to save the baby killers, Zionist Jews, and USA. The history tells us that the racist Russians want to repeat the same treason they committed in Iran after WWII, divided Iran into sphere of influence in the North and South, where Russia ruled in the north to steal Iranian territories and South went to the British criminals, colluding with terrorists Americans and Erdogan to control Syria against Assad and Iran. But the traitor Putin cannot do that. People much smarter than he, the Zionist stooge, are.

    As Andrew Korybko in “ The Kurds Have Backed Damascus into a Corner” correctly writes:

    [To that end, Russia wants military hostilities to end as soon as possible so that it can use its influence over the political process to divvy out de-facto spheres of influence to every competitor, thereby making it the indispensable Mideast power. The problem is that both Syria and Iran are against this design: Damascus is opposed in principle and also because it believes that anything less than liberating ‘every square inch” of the country like President Assad promised would discredit him, while Tehran fears that it and its Hezbollah allies will be “backstabbed” during this process and compelled to withdraw from Syria. That’s why these old partners are coordinating with one another in order to keep hostilities simmering for as long as possible in the hope that the resultant uncertainty can create windows of opportunity for them to push back against their Turkish, American, and Israeli rivals’ spheres of influence.
    Russia wised up to their game plan and is increasingly losing patience with both of them, knowing full well that its grand strategic vision risks being undermined by Syria and Iran if these latter two succeed in their objectives. Moscow believes that it has more to gain in the long term and in view of the “bigger picture” by pragmatically going along with Turkey and Israel’s sphere of influence claims while simultaneously reaching a “gentlemen’s agreement” with the US for passively accepting its own in the Kurdish-controlled northeast, but all of Russia’s hard-fought diplomatic-strategic work is now endangered because Syria appears to have heeded Iran’s presumed advice in backing up the PYD-YPG Kurds in Afrin against the Turks.]

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-kurds-have-backed-damascus-into-a-corner/5630031

    Don’t trust Saker for a second. He is misleading. Russia and China, two petty colonies, always have sided with the racist criminal west, against Muslims.

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    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
    Great you told us what Putin must do. Certainly he can't wait to implement your policy proposals.
    , @yurivku

    Don’t trust Saker for a second. He is misleading. Russia and China, two petty colonies, always have sided with the racist criminal west, against Muslims.
     
    Ok, ok, just calm down.
    You did not say whom should we trust? ZUS? Please clear up this question.
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  110. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich
    You're wrong (I'm also Russian). Aside from the traumatised older generations, most Russians do not have a strong opinion either way.

    Saker is talking about a principled moral opposition to capitalism as economic system (not to be confused with envy of the rich, or the entitlement mentality). This simply doesn't exist in Russia, because ordinary Russian people never think in such terms. I would go so far as to say that questions of morality do not have a big place in ordinary Russians' lifes.

    The Russians are not particularly envious people either: like I said, we've got these huge imported cars, with toned windows, blocking pavements in central Moscow, and nobody tries to puncture their tires or smash windows or anything (in Latin America, they would smash windows).

    You are not Russian, as max you are rossianin, please use your true nationality when writing such a russophobic bs.

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    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Look, this is a country that still aborts its babies at the rate way above global average, and apart from occasional, meek complaints from the Russian Orthodox church, nobody ever bothers to examine the morality of it all. The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.

    Saker imbues Russians with qualities that they as a nation do not posess. To me this lowers his value as an analyst. As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.
    , @polskijoe
    lol... we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.

    "You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality."

    Its actually sad.
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  111. @Sergey Krieger
    I have never heard of sausage being one of the more important things in human life. On the other hand shelter, medicine, education, stability in employment and confidence in the future are. In every aspect i just mentioned situation in russia is not rosy and from what I hear far worse than it used to be. Let's take shelter. People now have to go into life long dent slavery to get place to live. Considering lack of normal rentals many have no choice. It used to be that people were getting their apartments for free usually after few years of work and your truly got one bedroom apartment immediately upon graduation along with position. Unfortunately it was summer 1991. I was the last generatìon who suffered this miserable destiny. Now people are so very happy to get some loan and go shopping with greater freedom of choice to get something and then having to pay 2-3 time more than they borrowed over 30 years of the mortgage term. I would not even go into other expenses related to having shelter. It used to be truffles in Soviet times. Situation is still greatly eased by Soviet era apartments being trasfered from grandparents and parents to siblings. Just wait when this resource left from soviet times finally dries out. Medicine and education..... want to go there with your private capitalistic being better. Confidence in the future? Stability at work? Sure, it was all worth it to have 200 sausages which probably barely contains any meat.

    In every aspect i just mentioned situation in russia is not rosy and from what I hear far worse than it used to be.

    Statistics below MORE to avoid cluttering up this thread.

    [MORE]

    shelter

    medicine

    education

    Hard to measure, but IQ is going up:

    stability in employment

    Okay, USSR “wins” here. You had to really “try” to be fired there. Results: Extreme lack of productivity and overmanning, destruction of work ethic, etc.

    confidence in the future

    Read More
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  112. Glossy says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Per yours and Felix’s so called thesis about healthy life style: you may not know it but it has a lot to do with moral and psychological state of the society which is a first derivative of economic state but again–you wouldn’t know what causality is, since you consistently demonstrate that cause and effect in you mind are absolutely 180 degrees reversed and effect precedes the cause.
     
    Actually not having an alcoholization epidemic is far more important. But okay, let's have it your way.

    "Moral and psychological state" of the Soviet society 1965-1991:

    http://www.rainbowbuilders.org/development/life-expectancy-russia-usa-eastern-europe-19.png

    ... in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now...
     
    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.

    I remember arguing with Karlin about this data. As I recall, he admitted that the Soviet life expectancy numbers he used were not the official numbers released by the Soviet government. Which implies to me that they were made up by the CIA, as part of the same campaign as the “30 million killed by Stalin” stuff.

    As everyone who saw the 1990s knows, the real misery in Russia started when Karlin’s side won.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    No, I did not say that. I did say that the Soviet Union hid its mortality data for a good chunk of the 1970s-80s, because it was embarrassing, though American academics such as Murray Feshbach managed to infer it (as it turned out, quite accurately, when the USSR starting releasing data again come glasnost).

    If you believe the figures I cited are CIA figures, well, apparently they are Rosstat's figures as well - feel free to write them a complaints letter.
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  113. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Here you go:

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/attitudes-to-being-rich.png

    Pretty sure that America, Brazil and China would have won on this list, if they had entered. Also Japan would be high up here, if certain metric is indication

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  114. utu says:
    @kemerd
    I agree with Saker in that Putin is neo-liberal but disagree on the part that Putin believes in social democracy. My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms. It is, BTW, why I think Putin’s responses to American aggression is muted, or that he still does not get rid of 5th columnists: he really does not want to alienate them totally and waits for a faction in western elite to take over that would recognize Russian oligarchy as equals. In my view, this is never going to happen: as Saker frequently points out, because of the cultural tendencies of the west, they have never considered Russia as equal partners and will never do. In fact, the only reason they could not suck the blood of Russia to the bone and let the country slip from their fingers is their total disregard for the interests of Russian elites which do want their country and themselves be regarded as equals to their western partners.

    However, this is their main weakness: they cannot beat imperialists on their own game. The correct course of action is to fully reject them: i.e. withdrawal from IMF, World Bank, and other financial institutions, placing controls on the transfer of capital, nationalizing strategic industries, etc. Obviously, these are actions which will reduce the power of the oligarchy in Russia and thus impossible to implement by Putin (unless an open conflict with the west forces him to do so to put the economy in complete war footing). Incidentally, Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics. And, such leaders could not care less what the westerners think and write about them, unlike Putin

    My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms.

    This how I also see it. For this reason I was always skeptical of those who put hopes in Putin’s Russia as a genuine opponent of the Zio-Amercian Empire. Putin actions and in-actions should be understood as playing for time and gaining some leverage for a better position at the negotiating table. They want to sit at the sam table with the Empire while the Empire still sees them as dish to be consumed at this table.

    Read More
    • Replies: @polskijoe
    Maybe some European leadesr might like to improve relations with Russia,

    but... (refering to elites): Anglo countries do not, Countries jammed between Germany and Russia dont. Sweden and Netherlands do not.

    I get the feeling that most of the Western establishment does not want to,
    or can not because of fear or pressure from CIA/US.

    Well you get those groups like Bilderberg, the less known Le Cercle, types who refuse too.

    You get the CFR, Brooking Institute, Chatham House who refuse too.

    They all want to dominate. Not see others as equal partners.
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  115. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    That’s the standard pretext to explain the consistent failure of the experiment. E.g. Yeltsin’s Russia; 90s Argentina and so on.

     

    That's not true at all. There have been successful transformations as well: Czechia, Poland, to name a few in post-communist Europe. Kazakhstan is much more successful than other Central Asian stans. Estonia is more successful than Latvia and Lithuania...

    Poland's level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine's. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

    Poland’s level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine’s. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

    Poland received hundreds of billions of dollars in EU subsidies and transfers. Not a fair comparison. Even still today they are receiving this transfer of wealth from net contributor countries in the EU (there’s another good reason EU became unpopular in net contributor countries like the UK and the Netherlands):

    https://msp.gov.pl/en/polish-economy/economic-news/4015,Poland-to-get-nearly-EUR-106-bln-from-2014-2020-EU-budget-pool-expected-impact-o.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Energy subsidies from Russia to the Ukraine are estimated at hundreds of billions of dollars since 1991. The Ukraine has been well subsidized since independence. What they have been desperately lacking is governance.
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  116. @Glossy
    I remember arguing with Karlin about this data. As I recall, he admitted that the Soviet life expectancy numbers he used were not the official numbers released by the Soviet government. Which implies to me that they were made up by the CIA, as part of the same campaign as the "30 million killed by Stalin" stuff.

    As everyone who saw the 1990s knows, the real misery in Russia started when Karlin's side won.

    No, I did not say that. I did say that the Soviet Union hid its mortality data for a good chunk of the 1970s-80s, because it was embarrassing, though American academics such as Murray Feshbach managed to infer it (as it turned out, quite accurately, when the USSR starting releasing data again come glasnost).

    If you believe the figures I cited are CIA figures, well, apparently they are Rosstat’s figures as well – feel free to write them a complaints letter.

    Read More
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  117. @kemerd
    I agree with Saker in that Putin is neo-liberal but disagree on the part that Putin believes in social democracy. My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms. It is, BTW, why I think Putin’s responses to American aggression is muted, or that he still does not get rid of 5th columnists: he really does not want to alienate them totally and waits for a faction in western elite to take over that would recognize Russian oligarchy as equals. In my view, this is never going to happen: as Saker frequently points out, because of the cultural tendencies of the west, they have never considered Russia as equal partners and will never do. In fact, the only reason they could not suck the blood of Russia to the bone and let the country slip from their fingers is their total disregard for the interests of Russian elites which do want their country and themselves be regarded as equals to their western partners.

    However, this is their main weakness: they cannot beat imperialists on their own game. The correct course of action is to fully reject them: i.e. withdrawal from IMF, World Bank, and other financial institutions, placing controls on the transfer of capital, nationalizing strategic industries, etc. Obviously, these are actions which will reduce the power of the oligarchy in Russia and thus impossible to implement by Putin (unless an open conflict with the west forces him to do so to put the economy in complete war footing). Incidentally, Russian communist party offers exactly that. So, unlike Saker I take them seriously not because I don’t believe in what Saker writes about them but because such transformation has its own life and real leadership would eventually emerge from such dynamics. And, such leaders could not care less what the westerners think and write about them, unlike Putin

    It probably shouldn’t be forgotten that Putin’s government did make “Holocaust” denial illegal.

    Read More
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  118. Dmitry says:
    @Michael Kenny
    The usual mass of irrelevant detail designed to bog the discussion down. The message is just a re-hash of the author’s standard message: Vladimir Putin is good. I hooted with laughter at Putin’s “superb foreign policy”.

    As typical for the website. A not particularly serious article but – followed by interesting debates or arguments in comments underneath it.

    Read More
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  119. @yurivku
    You are not Russian, as max you are rossianin, please use your true nationality when writing such a russophobic bs.

    Look, this is a country that still aborts its babies at the rate way above global average, and apart from occasional, meek complaints from the Russian Orthodox church, nobody ever bothers to examine the morality of it all. The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.

    Saker imbues Russians with qualities that they as a nation do not posess. To me this lowers his value as an analyst. As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku

    The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.
     
    Look don't speak about Russians it's clear which nationality you are. And even you are still in Russia (which I doubt) it't not for long. Such people as you are filling rows of Mashas Gessens and continue to pour their dirt from US/UK/Israel ... Actually the sooner you'll leave the better.

    As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.
     
    Just incredible. I guess if you saw any live Russian.
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  120. Glossy says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I argued with you for most of that time.
     
    This is clearly incorrect.

    I should say that that photograph was first brought to my attention by Anatoly Karlin who runs a great blog about Russia called Da Russophile. - Glossy, Jan 2014

    Anatoly, I hope you’re OK and that you can return to blogging soon. - Glossy, Oct 2016

    Actual timeline:

    2010-15/16 - You consider me "a great blogger," I am one of about five on your own blogroll (and I reciprocate in kind)

    2016/17 - You become increasingly preoccupied with anti-Soviet neocons and your rather strange theory that Stalin was a conservative (indeed commenting about little else). And yes, we start arguing more frequently (though most of your disputes are actually with AP).

    July 2017 - You get very triggered by an anti-Stalin comment (!) I made on Twitter (that was not even addressed to you in particular) on his killings of Russian geneticists:

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/881647274421477377

    ... and proceed to state that I am an "anti-sovok bastard" (okay, I plead guilty - please give me the chance to leave on a philosopher's ship when you seize power), demand I remove your blog from my blogroll (which I comply with), and Block me.

    Though not before repeating that you did actually like my blog:

    https://twitter.com/Glossophiliac75/status/881703061458178049

    Believe it or not, I bear no ill will towards you, and I appreciate your contributions over the years. However, I can't let such blatant misrepresentations stand.

    Most of the time I did argue with you. About the legality of drugs and the harmfulness of homosexuality, about HBD, Freud, planned versus market economies, etc. You always took the liberal position. The first comment I remember making on your old site was about your social liberalism. I wrote that I was liberal too at your age, and that I would have appreciated if someone had challenged my beliefs then.

    I take back the nice things. I’m human, so I make mistakes. Your side is evil. You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner is grotesque. Your side has caused so much suffering for so many innocent people. You’re allied with the forces that pulled off 1917 and 1991 and which are planning a third act now. I wish you and yours failure in all your endeavors.

    You can pretend to hate Lenin all you want, but the revolution was made by exactly the kind of people who use the word “sovok” now, exactly the kind who were anti-Soviet in the 1980s. It’s not a weird connection to make. Millions of people have noticed this. Labels change, realities remain.

    And when you’re pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.

    Why doesn’t your side, SiP, Gessen, Applebaum, etc. embrace Lenin, Trotsky, etc. now? Cowardice, dishonesty, expediency. I remember when the movement to which you belong did embrace him. In the late 1980s the liberalizing trend explained itself to the public as getting back to Lenin’s ideas. Which was at least honest. The first iteration of Solzhenitsin’s BS, back around the time of the war, was “getting back to Lenin after Stalin perverted his ideas”.

    And even if we disregard what happened after 1917, even if we only look at the 1990s, your side destroyed so much. And all of your attempts to portray the late USSR as dysfunctional are excuses. What you’re saying is “we didn’t didn’t break it, it was already broken before us.” You’re legitimizing that excuse, made by all of those thieves and murderers. You’re illustrating it with graphs, writing a legal brief for the worst criminals of our time.

    And I don’t know what’s the deal with you personally. Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are? I’m not clairvoyant. There’s certainly a market for people who say what you say. There are powerful interests who want such messages to get out, and I don’t think you have another job. But there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push.

    I’m tired of debating all of this with you. I may not even check back on this discussion later. It’s unpleasant, and I have things to do. Smoothie is made of sterner stuff – not surprising, given his profession – so he can bear you for longer.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Your side is evil.
     
    Fan of the Georgian Borat giving lectures on morality.

    And when you’re pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.
     
    Sure thing.

    Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are?
     
    I prefer to give weight to facts, statistics, polls, and so forth.

    That said, I do realize that you have your own standards:

    https://twitter.com/Glossophiliac75/status/881705985131393024
    , @utu
    Your imputations that AK is some kind of leftist and crypto-Leninist and so on are totally wrong. The leftists are not winning where it really matters. He prefers to be on the winning side.

    You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner
     

    there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push
     
    I do not think you will find more than one ounce of humanitarianism in him. He is rather the might-makes-right guy who will position himself on the meaner side because this side is usually more likely to win. The gateway to it for young men are utopian/dystopian science-fiction novels and then being snatched by libertarianism. There is no metaphysics as it is too deep and thus it is replaced with scientism. It is all superficial and trite with a lot of hype as any TED talk you may hear. Darwinism and its bastard IQism is given inordinate explanatory power. Transhumanism is the ersatz transcendentalism in this belief system. It takes some intelligence to hold this kind of universe together. Being on the autistic side of the spectrum (like Sailer) helps. One focuses on numbers, statistics and data that then one force to conform to Darwinism and IQism. The confirmation bias in this pseudo-scientific endeavor rules all the time. The same autistic elements help to shield one from human and humanitarian instincts like expressing empathy and compassion for underdogs that could potentially put dangerous cracks in this Weltanschauung. Ultimately everybody is a machine though for some unexplained reason there will be big cries when one's rights are violated without ever question why did the machine came into the possession of any rights. And yes, there are many people who have been seduced or snatched by it. Chiefly by lack of early exposure to classical education and decline of religion in society.

    Is his side really winning? On the surface when one looks at media or TED talks populated by vulgar Darwinists like Pinkers or Sam Harrises and all the neocons and they power and then at glorification and triumphalism of being a member of the tribe one may get an impression that yes, this side is winning. But who know, perhaps this is only a superstructure created by media that does not have legs to go long distance.
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  121. Dmitry says:
    @Philip Owen
    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist "It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty". Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

    Anatoly speaks English with a Russian accent and he has gone to Russia to live. So I value his thoughts far about Saker's babblings.

    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist “It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty”. Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

    The charts and ‘statistics’ are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers’ ranting in (I admit) impressive English. It doesn’t mean that there are anything authoritative to conclusions drawn from these ‘statistics’. It is still interesting to see them and he does a service to the internet by posting them here. As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions. If he runs as a politician, I would not vote for him or understand what he actually thinks. But the guy has a valuable talent to generate the interesting discussion and comments, and which is probably the more important thing in blogging.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions.
     
    You can read some of those facepalm "analyses" here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    It is one of many, it's just that this one was so outlandish that it forced me to first start a series of posts in my blog on this issue and eventually people convinced me to write a book--should be out in September (if lucky--in August).


    The charts and ‘statistics’ are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers’ ranting in (I admit) impressive English.
     
    Not in Karlin's "settings", since he has a very peculiar way of "handling" information, which doesn't suite him--such as arguing (if you have time--you can find it) with data and war correlates of Russia's Imperial General Staff, since, obviously, those numbers do not support his "views".

    If he runs as a politician
     
    I would pay to see that in Russia. LOL. He has, however, a good shot at it in the US.
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  122. Johnj says:

    Saker does not take note of the Chinese political and economic model. Is that because Saker is wedded to some false Western point of view? Or does he feel that the Russian people are not culturally able to follow that path. He readily admits that they reject most of the thrust of Western capitalism. Well why cannot the Russian people develop capitalism? Are they not motivated to strive and succeed in a business that serves the general welfare?

    Has the outlook of the Russian people been poisoned by Marxism from the Soviet era? Why are Russians not stirred by the accomplishments of China. Where is Saker to answer these questions.

    Read More
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  123. utu says:
    @Kiza
    Ok, so when you, the Chinese, make enough money, you will be accepted by the Owners of the World, and your financial interests will be respected?

    Just as in Libya perhaps, how many billions of dollars of your investment did you lose again?

    Agree on Libya: 30,000 Chinese work evacuated. But I do not agree on oligarch elites of Russia and China. The plan is to turn them and absorb them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Just for a moment I will take you seriously, although you sometimes write truly silly stuff, and respond.

    Yes, the AngloZionist would prefer to turn and absorb the Russian and Chinese elite, but only as low subordinates. This is what they have been doing in other conquered countries - generating a mix of the new and compliant part of the old elite with a greater proportion of the new elite. The Russian neo-Liberals are ready and waiting for the job, looking down on their compatriots as cattle (the same word as goyim, what an amazing coincidence!?). Read what this Felix writes about the Russians. This gang turned Russia into killing fields in 1917 and will gladly do it again given half a chance by their foreign masters. The masters are underwriting the full-time writing of puppets such as Karlin. Karlin is the Russian Elliot Higgins, interpreting data without a faintest idea of solid data analysis, a paid full-time hack drawing the right conclusions for the empire. Perhaps he sees himself as a minister in the Russian puppet government after the successful regime change. Therefore, this group of regular trolls (about 10 nicks) on all Saker’s writings are aiming to be that future new Russian servant elite when Russia would be absorbed. They are truly the last thing that Russian people need.

    As I said above, I have seen it all before, it is deja vu all over again (Yogi Bear).
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  124. @Dmitry

    Poland’s level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine’s. They started out around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.

     

    Poland received hundreds of billions of dollars in EU subsidies and transfers. Not a fair comparison. Even still today they are receiving this transfer of wealth from net contributor countries in the EU (there's another good reason EU became unpopular in net contributor countries like the UK and the Netherlands):

    https://msp.gov.pl/en/polish-economy/economic-news/4015,Poland-to-get-nearly-EUR-106-bln-from-2014-2020-EU-budget-pool-expected-impact-o.html

    Energy subsidies from Russia to the Ukraine are estimated at hundreds of billions of dollars since 1991. The Ukraine has been well subsidized since independence. What they have been desperately lacking is governance.

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  125. @Glossy
    Most of the time I did argue with you. About the legality of drugs and the harmfulness of homosexuality, about HBD, Freud, planned versus market economies, etc. You always took the liberal position. The first comment I remember making on your old site was about your social liberalism. I wrote that I was liberal too at your age, and that I would have appreciated if someone had challenged my beliefs then.

    I take back the nice things. I'm human, so I make mistakes. Your side is evil. You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner is grotesque. Your side has caused so much suffering for so many innocent people. You're allied with the forces that pulled off 1917 and 1991 and which are planning a third act now. I wish you and yours failure in all your endeavors.

    You can pretend to hate Lenin all you want, but the revolution was made by exactly the kind of people who use the word "sovok" now, exactly the kind who were anti-Soviet in the 1980s. It's not a weird connection to make. Millions of people have noticed this. Labels change, realities remain.

    And when you're pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.

    Why doesn't your side, SiP, Gessen, Applebaum, etc. embrace Lenin, Trotsky, etc. now? Cowardice, dishonesty, expediency. I remember when the movement to which you belong did embrace him. In the late 1980s the liberalizing trend explained itself to the public as getting back to Lenin's ideas. Which was at least honest. The first iteration of Solzhenitsin's BS, back around the time of the war, was "getting back to Lenin after Stalin perverted his ideas".

    And even if we disregard what happened after 1917, even if we only look at the 1990s, your side destroyed so much. And all of your attempts to portray the late USSR as dysfunctional are excuses. What you're saying is "we didn't didn't break it, it was already broken before us." You're legitimizing that excuse, made by all of those thieves and murderers. You're illustrating it with graphs, writing a legal brief for the worst criminals of our time.

    And I don't know what's the deal with you personally. Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are? I'm not clairvoyant. There's certainly a market for people who say what you say. There are powerful interests who want such messages to get out, and I don't think you have another job. But there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push.

    I'm tired of debating all of this with you. I may not even check back on this discussion later. It's unpleasant, and I have things to do. Smoothie is made of sterner stuff - not surprising, given his profession - so he can bear you for longer.

    Your side is evil.

    Fan of the Georgian Borat giving lectures on morality.

    And when you’re pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.

    Sure thing.

    Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are?

    I prefer to give weight to facts, statistics, polls, and so forth.

    That said, I do realize that you have your own standards:

    Read More
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  126. utu says:
    @Glossy
    Most of the time I did argue with you. About the legality of drugs and the harmfulness of homosexuality, about HBD, Freud, planned versus market economies, etc. You always took the liberal position. The first comment I remember making on your old site was about your social liberalism. I wrote that I was liberal too at your age, and that I would have appreciated if someone had challenged my beliefs then.

    I take back the nice things. I'm human, so I make mistakes. Your side is evil. You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner is grotesque. Your side has caused so much suffering for so many innocent people. You're allied with the forces that pulled off 1917 and 1991 and which are planning a third act now. I wish you and yours failure in all your endeavors.

    You can pretend to hate Lenin all you want, but the revolution was made by exactly the kind of people who use the word "sovok" now, exactly the kind who were anti-Soviet in the 1980s. It's not a weird connection to make. Millions of people have noticed this. Labels change, realities remain.

    And when you're pressed about all of this stuff, you always have more sympathy for the Old Bolsheviks than for Stalin.

    Why doesn't your side, SiP, Gessen, Applebaum, etc. embrace Lenin, Trotsky, etc. now? Cowardice, dishonesty, expediency. I remember when the movement to which you belong did embrace him. In the late 1980s the liberalizing trend explained itself to the public as getting back to Lenin's ideas. Which was at least honest. The first iteration of Solzhenitsin's BS, back around the time of the war, was "getting back to Lenin after Stalin perverted his ideas".

    And even if we disregard what happened after 1917, even if we only look at the 1990s, your side destroyed so much. And all of your attempts to portray the late USSR as dysfunctional are excuses. What you're saying is "we didn't didn't break it, it was already broken before us." You're legitimizing that excuse, made by all of those thieves and murderers. You're illustrating it with graphs, writing a legal brief for the worst criminals of our time.

    And I don't know what's the deal with you personally. Is it just a job for you, do you believe any of your stuff for weirdly over-thought reasons, are you who you say you are? I'm not clairvoyant. There's certainly a market for people who say what you say. There are powerful interests who want such messages to get out, and I don't think you have another job. But there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push.

    I'm tired of debating all of this with you. I may not even check back on this discussion later. It's unpleasant, and I have things to do. Smoothie is made of sterner stuff - not surprising, given his profession - so he can bear you for longer.

    Your imputations that AK is some kind of leftist and crypto-Leninist and so on are totally wrong. The leftists are not winning where it really matters. He prefers to be on the winning side.

    You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner

    there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push

    I do not think you will find more than one ounce of humanitarianism in him. He is rather the might-makes-right guy who will position himself on the meaner side because this side is usually more likely to win. The gateway to it for young men are utopian/dystopian science-fiction novels and then being snatched by libertarianism. There is no metaphysics as it is too deep and thus it is replaced with scientism. It is all superficial and trite with a lot of hype as any TED talk you may hear. Darwinism and its bastard IQism is given inordinate explanatory power. Transhumanism is the ersatz transcendentalism in this belief system. It takes some intelligence to hold this kind of universe together. Being on the autistic side of the spectrum (like Sailer) helps. One focuses on numbers, statistics and data that then one force to conform to Darwinism and IQism. The confirmation bias in this pseudo-scientific endeavor rules all the time. The same autistic elements help to shield one from human and humanitarian instincts like expressing empathy and compassion for underdogs that could potentially put dangerous cracks in this Weltanschauung. Ultimately everybody is a machine though for some unexplained reason there will be big cries when one’s rights are violated without ever question why did the machine came into the possession of any rights. And yes, there are many people who have been seduced or snatched by it. Chiefly by lack of early exposure to classical education and decline of religion in society.

    Is his side really winning? On the surface when one looks at media or TED talks populated by vulgar Darwinists like Pinkers or Sam Harrises and all the neocons and they power and then at glorification and triumphalism of being a member of the tribe one may get an impression that yes, this side is winning. But who know, perhaps this is only a superstructure created by media that does not have legs to go long distance.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Well, erm, yes. People do like winners, and dislike losers - that would seem pretty obvious. The Americans dropped two nukes* on Japan and the Japanese love them regardless. Moral considerations are second at best. Conversely, if central planning had been successful, instead of a dismal failure, I'm sure Balts would love Russians today, a few minor unpleasantries from the 1940s regardless.

    However, I certainly don't consider myself guided by such considerations in my personal choices (more fool me). I strongly suspect liberalism will win out this century, and my own positions now will consign me to pariah status in my old age, even in Russia. Hopefully the liberalism that will win out will be more Pinkerian than SJW.

    * Needless to say, I am certainly not one of the people who care let alone condemn the US for dropping nukes on Japan.
    , @AaronB
    Truly brilliant and insightful comment.

    Thank you.
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  127. Anon • Disclaimer says:
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  128. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @The Alarmist
    Are Putin et al going to go into hyperventilation-mode about American meddling in the Russian elections before or after the election? Maybe they can indict some bigwigs at Google, FaceBag and Twitter for taking long lunches to conspire against Russia on behalf of the Empire.

    Anon from TN
    I strongly suspect that the Russians prefer to leave the honor of making yourself look really stupid to the US. Therefore, Russia would not do anything nearing the level of self-harm inflicted by the US elites.

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  129. @utu
    Your imputations that AK is some kind of leftist and crypto-Leninist and so on are totally wrong. The leftists are not winning where it really matters. He prefers to be on the winning side.

    You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner
     

    there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push
     
    I do not think you will find more than one ounce of humanitarianism in him. He is rather the might-makes-right guy who will position himself on the meaner side because this side is usually more likely to win. The gateway to it for young men are utopian/dystopian science-fiction novels and then being snatched by libertarianism. There is no metaphysics as it is too deep and thus it is replaced with scientism. It is all superficial and trite with a lot of hype as any TED talk you may hear. Darwinism and its bastard IQism is given inordinate explanatory power. Transhumanism is the ersatz transcendentalism in this belief system. It takes some intelligence to hold this kind of universe together. Being on the autistic side of the spectrum (like Sailer) helps. One focuses on numbers, statistics and data that then one force to conform to Darwinism and IQism. The confirmation bias in this pseudo-scientific endeavor rules all the time. The same autistic elements help to shield one from human and humanitarian instincts like expressing empathy and compassion for underdogs that could potentially put dangerous cracks in this Weltanschauung. Ultimately everybody is a machine though for some unexplained reason there will be big cries when one's rights are violated without ever question why did the machine came into the possession of any rights. And yes, there are many people who have been seduced or snatched by it. Chiefly by lack of early exposure to classical education and decline of religion in society.

    Is his side really winning? On the surface when one looks at media or TED talks populated by vulgar Darwinists like Pinkers or Sam Harrises and all the neocons and they power and then at glorification and triumphalism of being a member of the tribe one may get an impression that yes, this side is winning. But who know, perhaps this is only a superstructure created by media that does not have legs to go long distance.

    Well, erm, yes. People do like winners, and dislike losers – that would seem pretty obvious. The Americans dropped two nukes* on Japan and the Japanese love them regardless. Moral considerations are second at best. Conversely, if central planning had been successful, instead of a dismal failure, I’m sure Balts would love Russians today, a few minor unpleasantries from the 1940s regardless.

    However, I certainly don’t consider myself guided by such considerations in my personal choices (more fool me). I strongly suspect liberalism will win out this century, and my own positions now will consign me to pariah status in my old age, even in Russia. Hopefully the liberalism that will win out will be more Pinkerian than SJW.

    * Needless to say, I am certainly not one of the people who care let alone condemn the US for dropping nukes on Japan.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    * Needless to say, I am certainly not one of the people who care let alone condemn the US for dropping nukes on Japan.
     
    Holy shit. You really are a total creep.

    Of course, I already knew that, but still, the sheer extent of it is breathtaking at times nonetheless.

    I wonder whether this is effortless on your part because you have such a great natural talent for assholery? Or is this something that you have to work at steadily?

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  130. Seraphim says:

    The intra-Russian ‘discussions’ (between ‘real Russians’ and not-so real – half, quarter, x% -, between ‘sovoks’ and ‘liberals’) are quite hilarious (even more comic by their sanctimonious tone). Who is right? Hard to say. I would rather know who is wrong. Opposing ad hominem arguments to data supposed fake and heaping abuses on the head of your opponents is an indication that one has no real counter arguments and in fact tries to evade the substance of the problem.

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  131. chris says:

    So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power.

    Your point brought this infamous picture to mind!

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    • Replies: @chris
    http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/JE-SUIS-CHARLIE-PARIS-RALLY.jpg

    “So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power.“

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  132. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:

    Anon from TN
    Somehow in numerous statements in this thread, mostly boiling down to “mine is more Russian than yours”, the key issues were missed. I am not even talking about obvious trolls trying to denigrate Putin’s foreign policy feats. He achieved a lot more with a relatively weak hand than the US with a much stronger one, both in Syria and in Ukraine.
    Admittedly, Ukraine does not count: only Americans, who have no history and don’t know the history of other countries, could have stepped into that particular pile of s… Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports. At the beginning of the eighteens century Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes. Peter the Great decimated Swedes in the battle near Poltava. That was the end of Sweden as a great European power. Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire in WWI. Where is that Empire now? Then “independent” Ukraine supported Germans. Well, they lost WWI. Then Ukrainians served Hitler in WWII. USSR smeared Nazi Germany over he wall. Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union. Where is it now? So, if I were in the US or EU leadership, I’d make sure that Ukraine is not my friend, simply for the sake of self-preservation.
    Syria is a totally different story. The Empire, on behalf of Israel and Saudis, tried to break it up into a bunch of powerless Bantustans. The plan seemed to be close to bearing fruit until Putin threw a wrench into the works. With ridiculously small ground and air force he turned the tide of the war. The Empire was frustrated. Hence the hysterics.
    Anyway, IMHO Putin’s Russia has two major weaknesses. One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000. “Protected” appear to include even such notorious figures as Chubais (if you ask Russians, ~90% would say that oligarchs should be stripped of their wealth, tried, and imprisoned; but as many or more would say that Chubais should be publicly hanged). The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.

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    • Replies: @Pavlo
    Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports

    The examples you cite don't support your thesis.

    Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes

    He spectacularly failed to bring the country with him.

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    Then Ukrainians served Hitler

    A minority of degenerates. The Ukrainians who brought ruin on Hitler were those on the other side.

    Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union

    The causal connection between this and the demise of the union is not demonstrated.
    , @yurivku

    One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000.
    ...
    The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.
     
    It's interesting to see like you, actually foreigners, despite having some Russian origin (you, Saker ...), and especially clean foreigners making categorical statements about Russia's life and policy.
    But ok, I'll add some "chaff" here to your unbeatable statements.

    To your list should be added support of 5th column, it's partly mentioned in your 1st point, but problem is much more complex and deeper. Not only get stolen money back and hang Chubais (which of course could be a big pleasure), but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It's his way of life, he's built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It's useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he'll try to keep system in it's state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it's a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it's not a mafunctioning of a system, it's a part of it.

    System absolutely indifferent to people it's provided to guard. It's even not thinking of long term its own survival - education and science, medicine, bith rate. It's being concentrated only on high priority clear tasks like selfdefence and self-sufficency. Even latter has began to be developed in great scale only after sanctions (Thanx Obama & Co).

    So statements of Saker and others about people hating communists and faked Grudinin are fake and total misunderstanding of Russia (which BTW is not only Moscow).
    Who people really hate are oligarchs and the West (mainly US). All the negative to communists left in 1990. It's true for most people not counting liberals (called hear as liberast for being in rhyme with pederast) and gays/LGBT. Both these minorities actulally mainly the same people, luckily.

    And Grudinin is not candidate of communist party - he is candidate from block of patriotic forces, which is much more and actually the ideas of that block being supported by many, I could have said even by majority, but unfortunately is's not the case yet. If this candidate had equal rights in MSM, if the voutes were counted correctly there was a real chance to win.
    But it's unlikely.

    And for stupid statement of Saker's of Grudinin being a desired candidates for ZUS - let's not forget that the West is being ruled by imbeciles. So even if they think so - let's them to continue.
    BTW we also were thinking that there is no nobody worse than Killary Clinton. Do we think like that now ? :-)


    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

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  133. Jake says:

    “what we see is that western democracies are run by gangs of oligarchs and bureaucrats who have almost nothing in common with the people they are supposed to represent.”

    ABSOLUTELY TRUE!

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  134. Robert Dunn says: • Website

    I’m like so totally sure the CIA will not be interfering with their election.

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  135. Kiza says:
    @utu
    Agree on Libya: 30,000 Chinese work evacuated. But I do not agree on oligarch elites of Russia and China. The plan is to turn them and absorb them.

    Just for a moment I will take you seriously, although you sometimes write truly silly stuff, and respond.

    Yes, the AngloZionist would prefer to turn and absorb the Russian and Chinese elite, but only as low subordinates. This is what they have been doing in other conquered countries – generating a mix of the new and compliant part of the old elite with a greater proportion of the new elite. The Russian neo-Liberals are ready and waiting for the job, looking down on their compatriots as cattle (the same word as goyim, what an amazing coincidence!?). Read what this Felix writes about the Russians. This gang turned Russia into killing fields in 1917 and will gladly do it again given half a chance by their foreign masters. The masters are underwriting the full-time writing of puppets such as Karlin. Karlin is the Russian Elliot Higgins, interpreting data without a faintest idea of solid data analysis, a paid full-time hack drawing the right conclusions for the empire. Perhaps he sees himself as a minister in the Russian puppet government after the successful regime change. Therefore, this group of regular trolls (about 10 nicks) on all Saker’s writings are aiming to be that future new Russian servant elite when Russia would be absorbed. They are truly the last thing that Russian people need.

    As I said above, I have seen it all before, it is deja vu all over again (Yogi Bear).

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  136. Gerard2 says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    except that he’s right and you’re wrong
     
    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all--he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country. Culturally he is the same offspring of the system which produced neo-cons, as an example. He pretends to be Russian "nationalist" since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country.

    To be fair, Karlin does speak English in a heavily russian accent, unlike that Americanised liberast dickhead Pozner. This suggests to me that in his time in America, Karlin always spoke Russian at home and probably made regular and lengthy trips to Russia.

    He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.

    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the “achievements” of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002. As for the undoubtedly russophobic and liberal garbage comments he occasionally makes, I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant…..in other words just trying to increase his profile…..which he is entitled to do.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Anatoly speaks English with a Russian accent and he has gone to Russia to live. So I value his thoughts far about Saker’s babblings.
     
    Did anybody take away your right to value one thing over another? In related news, I know one Uncle Misha in one of the villages near Moscow where some of our relatives live, he is 80+, worked all his life as a plumber, and knows about two words in English with a heavy Russian accent (come to think about it--he may know even 3 or 4 words)--I personally value his opinions on Russia above Karlin's. I am sure your argumentation is impeccable.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the “achievements” of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002.
     
    I cannot explain to you how much and on how many levels this statement of your is wrong, since Russian media were filled with thorough analysis of Georgia's internal situation for a long long years. It is from the same universe as Karlin's statement that when he attended high school he "predicted" Russia's demographic improvement.

    I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant…..in other words just trying to increase his profile…..which he is entitled to do.
     
    You are missing the point completely here, sorry. The issue is not what Karlin does and what sort of sh.t he deals with. At issue here is the fact of some barely out of college guy with no serious education and with zero life-experiences trying to speak out on the matters in which he by definition has no even remote understanding and spreading a variety of sorts of BS. I guess his IQ fetish is partially explained by his desire to compensate for his utter lack of any relevant knowledge or skills. Make your choice, whom do you want to perform open heart surgery on yourself (God forbids you will need one)--a qualified surgeon or a plumber? I agree with your comment on increasing the profile, though--that is the name of the game for him.
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  137. Gerard2 says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Another mind provoking article from Saker. A lot of points are spot on. I disagree about Bolsheviks. I can understand Saker views based upon his background but not giving credit to at least pre Krushev communist party is not fair. They not only saved Russia which was dying at the time but took her to heights that Russia had never achieved before. Modern communists are such by name only and are revisionists opportunist and capitalists party by their nature. No argument here. Here comes the most hot topic Putin himself. Reading Saker one might imagine Putin fighting liberal hydra for some 19 years and still hydra is there as if nothing. I have to ask the premise that Putin actually fights them. I believe he is one of them but not willing to sell Russia off to partners. Otherwise how to explain liberal dominance in the government, media which spreads lies about Soviet past and financial sphere. Another thing is that like in Soviet times there is clear lack of systematic approach toward power succession and lack of checks and balances which led to few times clear unfit personalities coming to power and worse ruining the state in the process with no mechanism of removal. Where is Putin taking Russia? Bright capitalistic heaven where u0% of everything owned by a few with the rest going into debt slavery by taking mortgages and other loans to pay for what once was paid by state and public funds? He did save Russia once but with this situation the question is for how long as I see no Stalin period like rocket like growth making ussr untouchable and independent. With so much wealth stole and offshore I think it is unlikely and here comes question of finally addressing privatization of 90s and probable return to socialism.

    Another thing is that like in Soviet times there is clear lack of systematic approach toward power succession and lack of checks and balances which led to few times clear unfit personalities coming to power and worse ruining the state in the process with no mechanism of removal.

    This is just insulting garbage straight from the pages of Vedomosti. What “approach” towards power succession does there have to be? Why does it have to be assumed that if the country is not in a state of war, that there won’t be an entirely normally power succession? This issn’t America where idiots line up the next Trump daughter/Bush/Clinton/wife of Obama to be competing in 2020.

    “lacks of checks and balances” is liberast 5h column BS. Where does Putin enforce his will in policy , completely against the will of the 2 main political chambers or the majority of the Russian society? Russian life expectancy is up, Putin wants to increase the retirement age, Duma doesn’t want to legislate it, Russian public obviously not too keen to raise it, so guess what?….it hasn’t happened !
    In reality the Russian government caves into public pressure on infrastructure projects , releasing “persecuted” guilty criminals and general domestic policies…at an equal and maybe even more amount of times than most western countries.

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  138. Pavlo says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    Somehow in numerous statements in this thread, mostly boiling down to “mine is more Russian than yours”, the key issues were missed. I am not even talking about obvious trolls trying to denigrate Putin’s foreign policy feats. He achieved a lot more with a relatively weak hand than the US with a much stronger one, both in Syria and in Ukraine.
    Admittedly, Ukraine does not count: only Americans, who have no history and don’t know the history of other countries, could have stepped into that particular pile of s… Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports. At the beginning of the eighteens century Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes. Peter the Great decimated Swedes in the battle near Poltava. That was the end of Sweden as a great European power. Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire in WWI. Where is that Empire now? Then “independent” Ukraine supported Germans. Well, they lost WWI. Then Ukrainians served Hitler in WWII. USSR smeared Nazi Germany over he wall. Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union. Where is it now? So, if I were in the US or EU leadership, I’d make sure that Ukraine is not my friend, simply for the sake of self-preservation.
    Syria is a totally different story. The Empire, on behalf of Israel and Saudis, tried to break it up into a bunch of powerless Bantustans. The plan seemed to be close to bearing fruit until Putin threw a wrench into the works. With ridiculously small ground and air force he turned the tide of the war. The Empire was frustrated. Hence the hysterics.
    Anyway, IMHO Putin’s Russia has two major weaknesses. One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000. “Protected” appear to include even such notorious figures as Chubais (if you ask Russians, ~90% would say that oligarchs should be stripped of their wealth, tried, and imprisoned; but as many or more would say that Chubais should be publicly hanged). The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.

    Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports

    The examples you cite don’t support your thesis.

    Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes

    He spectacularly failed to bring the country with him.

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    Then Ukrainians served Hitler

    A minority of degenerates. The Ukrainians who brought ruin on Hitler were those on the other side.

    Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union

    The causal connection between this and the demise of the union is not demonstrated.

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    I must confess that I have difficulties to reconcile in my mind assertions like "Ukrainians served Hitler", 'Banderists' were the collaborators of Hitler", "Banderastan", 'Ukronazis' etc with what Wikipedia tells us:
    "On 30 June 1941, with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, Bandera and the OUN-B declared an independent Ukrainian State. Some of the published proclamations of the formation of this state say that it would "work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation." – as stated in the text of the "Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood"...
    In 1941 relations between Nazi Germany and the OUN-B had soured to the point where a Nazi document dated 25 November 1941 stated that "... the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated...".[42] On 5 July, Bandera was transferred to Berlin. On 12 July, the prime minister of the newly formed Ukrainian National Government, Yaroslav Stetsko, was also arrested and taken to Berlin. Although released from custody on 14 July, both were required to stay in Berlin. On 15 September 1941 Bandera and leading OUN members were arrested by the Gestapo.
    In January 1942, Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by an Reich Main Security Office official to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army.
    In September 1944 Bandera was released by [the German authorities] which hoped that he would incite the native populace to fight the advancing Soviet Army. With German consent Bandera set up headquarters in Berlin...

    "On 30 June 1941, Stetsko declared in Lviv the formation of a Ukrainian National Government which "will closely cooperate with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world" – as stated in the text of the "Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood" Gestapo and Abwehr officials protected Bandera followers, as both organizations intended to use them for their own purposes.
    On 5 July, OUN-B leader Bandera was placed under honorary arrest (Latin: custodia honesta) in Kraków, and transported to Berlin the next day. On 14 July he was released, but required to stay in Berlin. On 12 July 1941 he was joined in Berlin by his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko, whom the Germans had moved from Lviv after an unsuccessful attempt by unknown persons to assassinate him. During July–August both of them submitted dozens of proposals for cooperation to different Nazi institutions (OKW, RSHA etc.) and freely communicate with their followers. After the assassination of two key members of the Melnyk OUN, said to have been carried out by members of the OUN-B, Bandera and Stetsko were held in the central Berlin prison at Spandau from 15 September 1941 until January 1942, when they were transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners, Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by Otto Skorzeny to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army...

    "In September 1941, the Gestapo began registering known Ukrainian nationalists and from 1941 to 1943 over 80% of the UON-B leadership was arrested. The UON-M fared slightly better, but even their sycophancy failed to protect them from German disdain and the organisation was outlawed in 1942.
    Bandera’s family suffered too: his two brothers were killed by Polish prisoners in Auschwitz, another brother may have been executed by either the Gestapo or the NKVD (his fate is officially unknown), his father was executed by the Soviets for harbouring an UON fugitive and his sisters were exiled to a Siberian GULAG by the Soviet secret police".

    Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko have been interned in German concentration camps like other 'fascists' supposedly stooges of Nazis (like the so-called Iron Guard from Romania) until August 1944 (the defection of Romania from the Nazi camp) and freed only when the Nazis realized that they were losing the war and thought that they can use them against the advance of the Red Army. Only later, the OUN-B was re-formed in 1946 under the sponsorship of MI6. The organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera's organization, associated with Mykola Lebed, became more closely associated with the CIA...
    , @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    It is heartening to know that there are sane people in Ukraine (i.e., if you live there, which I doubt). However, current Ukrainian authorities made the scum like Mazepa, Petlura, Bandera, and Shukhevych heroes of their Ukraine. The population does not protest, which means they are complicit in this defamation of Ukraine. It could have been a country, but failed miserably. RIP.
    , @AP

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.
     
    This is a silly myth propagated in some Orthodox circles. Thalerhof had about 30,000 internees, people accused of spying for the enemy in time of war, about 3,000 of whom died, most from disease. Two of my great-grandparents were sent there, both survived. It was no proto-Auschwitz. It wasn't even close to what the Brits did to the Boers - 26,000 dead in the British camps.

    By 1910 the ratio of nationalists/Habsburg loyalists to Russophiles in Galicia was about at least 5:1, probably more like 9:1. Some Austrian units with Russophiles deserted (one of my relatives led a group of these POWs, a few hundred, who fought for Kolchak in Siberia) but there were no major pro-Russian uprisings or groups in western Ukraine; in contrast, the nationalist Western Ukrainian People's Republic managed to mobilize about 100,000 troops.
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  139. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Look, this is a country that still aborts its babies at the rate way above global average, and apart from occasional, meek complaints from the Russian Orthodox church, nobody ever bothers to examine the morality of it all. The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.

    Saker imbues Russians with qualities that they as a nation do not posess. To me this lowers his value as an analyst. As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.

    The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.

    Look don’t speak about Russians it’s clear which nationality you are. And even you are still in Russia (which I doubt) it’t not for long. Such people as you are filling rows of Mashas Gessens and continue to pour their dirt from US/UK/Israel … Actually the sooner you’ll leave the better.

    As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.

    Just incredible. I guess if you saw any live Russian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    There is a stream of personal insults here, that fails to adress any of the points I made. And implying that I may be a Jew is hillarious given my commenting history.
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  140. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    Somehow in numerous statements in this thread, mostly boiling down to “mine is more Russian than yours”, the key issues were missed. I am not even talking about obvious trolls trying to denigrate Putin’s foreign policy feats. He achieved a lot more with a relatively weak hand than the US with a much stronger one, both in Syria and in Ukraine.
    Admittedly, Ukraine does not count: only Americans, who have no history and don’t know the history of other countries, could have stepped into that particular pile of s… Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports. At the beginning of the eighteens century Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes. Peter the Great decimated Swedes in the battle near Poltava. That was the end of Sweden as a great European power. Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire in WWI. Where is that Empire now? Then “independent” Ukraine supported Germans. Well, they lost WWI. Then Ukrainians served Hitler in WWII. USSR smeared Nazi Germany over he wall. Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union. Where is it now? So, if I were in the US or EU leadership, I’d make sure that Ukraine is not my friend, simply for the sake of self-preservation.
    Syria is a totally different story. The Empire, on behalf of Israel and Saudis, tried to break it up into a bunch of powerless Bantustans. The plan seemed to be close to bearing fruit until Putin threw a wrench into the works. With ridiculously small ground and air force he turned the tide of the war. The Empire was frustrated. Hence the hysterics.
    Anyway, IMHO Putin’s Russia has two major weaknesses. One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000. “Protected” appear to include even such notorious figures as Chubais (if you ask Russians, ~90% would say that oligarchs should be stripped of their wealth, tried, and imprisoned; but as many or more would say that Chubais should be publicly hanged). The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.

    One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000.

    The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.

    It’s interesting to see like you, actually foreigners, despite having some Russian origin (you, Saker …), and especially clean foreigners making categorical statements about Russia’s life and policy.
    But ok, I’ll add some “chaff” here to your unbeatable statements.

    To your list should be added support of 5th column, it’s partly mentioned in your 1st point, but problem is much more complex and deeper. Not only get stolen money back and hang Chubais (which of course could be a big pleasure), but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It’s his way of life, he’s built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It’s useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he’ll try to keep system in it’s state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it’s a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it’s not a mafunctioning of a system, it’s a part of it.

    System absolutely indifferent to people it’s provided to guard. It’s even not thinking of long term its own survival – education and science, medicine, bith rate. It’s being concentrated only on high priority clear tasks like selfdefence and self-sufficency. Even latter has began to be developed in great scale only after sanctions (Thanx Obama & Co).

    So statements of Saker and others about people hating communists and faked Grudinin are fake and total misunderstanding of Russia (which BTW is not only Moscow).
    Who people really hate are oligarchs and the West (mainly US). All the negative to communists left in 1990. It’s true for most people not counting liberals (called hear as liberast for being in rhyme with pederast) and gays/LGBT. Both these minorities actulally mainly the same people, luckily.

    And Grudinin is not candidate of communist party – he is candidate from block of patriotic forces, which is much more and actually the ideas of that block being supported by many, I could have said even by majority, but unfortunately is’s not the case yet. If this candidate had equal rights in MSM, if the voutes were counted correctly there was a real chance to win.
    But it’s unlikely.

    And for stupid statement of Saker’s of Grudinin being a desired candidates for ZUS – let’s not forget that the West is being ruled by imbeciles. So even if they think so – let’s them to continue.
    BTW we also were thinking that there is no nobody worse than Killary Clinton. Do we think like that now ? :-)

    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Just a quick note that the "patriot" Grudinin believes that the LDNR (population: 3 million; troops: 30,000) should resolve its issues with the Ukraine (population: 40 million; troops: 250,000) without Russian support.

    Though to be quite expected of someone with millions stashed away in foreign bank accounts (a proud tradition of Russian patriots).

    So, one of the cases where The Saker is actually spot on.
    , @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    You are raising many valid points. I agree that a lot of weaknesses of present-day Russia are parts of the rotten system Putin inherited (he did not build it, it was built by “liberasts” in the 1990s, under Yeltsin). And yes, the West in its unbelievable stupidity actually boosted Putin’s popularity and forced him to do things that are good for the country in the long run. Western elites degenerated since the collapse of the USSR, and the process now appears irreversible. I disagree with one point only: that Grudinin is any better.
    I’d also like to remind you that I am not in the same boat as Saker. He never lived in Russia, whereas I did until 1991. I am not sure whether he has Russian citizenship, but I do.
    , @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    Just to explain something to you specifically. I left Russia (actually, USSR) in 1991 when it became crystal clear that the state totally abandoned biomedical research. So, I had a choice: remain in Russia and do something else that brings some money (I had a 6-year old daughter, and I believed that I have no right to keep her hungry), or remain in science, but move to the country where I will be paid for it enough, so nobody goes hungry. I chose science. Today I have more scientific papers and citations than pretty much any member of the Russian Academy of Sciences in my field. There is still no decent biomedical science in Russia. Purely bureaucratic projects like Skolkovo, an attempt to build a mountaintop without a mountain, are stillborn and do not inspire any confidence. If I return now, Russian science would gain nothing, but I would lose the ability to do what I am qualified for.
    The reason I am writing here is, like we used to say in the old times, “за державу обидно” (loose translation for non-Russian speakers “I feel hurt by the sad state of the country”). If you look at the papers in the best journals, there are lots of Russian (in broad sense) names on the author lists, but virtually none of them is now in Russia. Unlike masha gessens of the world, I am not selling lies, I am doing my professional job, which has nothing to do with politics.
    , @peterAUS

    ..but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It’s his way of life, he’s built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It’s useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he’ll try to keep system in it’s state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it’s a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it’s not a mafunctioning of a system, it’s a part of it.
     

    with

    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.
     
    Spot on.
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  141. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    That is a lot of words to say nothing.
     
    As long as this "nothing" is not a BS, this is just fine with me.

    BTW Andrei, just in case is a link to SNAGIT software, it’s powerful and handy, but of cource it’s up 2 you to try.

    https://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.html

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/SnagIt

    Here is an example of result pictures:

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig

    BTW when I just insert a link to picture it doesn’t seem to be immediately on screen. Probably there are some tags for that should be used?

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    trying to use [img] html tag
    " "


    I saw a picture on preview, but after publishing it's disappered ! So the question still exists.
    I used construct like:
    [img src="https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig" alt="an image to be embedded"]
    with square brackets changed for angle brackets.

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  142. yurivku says:
    @yurivku
    BTW Andrei, just in case is a link to SNAGIT software, it's powerful and handy, but of cource it's up 2 you to try.

    https://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.html
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/SnagIt

    Here is an example of result pictures:
    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig

    BTW when I just insert a link to picture it doesn't seem to be immediately on screen. Probably there are some tags for that should be used?

    trying to use [img] html tag
    ” ”

    I saw a picture on preview, but after publishing it’s disappered ! So the question still exists.
    I used construct like:
    [img src="https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig" alt="an image to be embedded"]
    with square brackets changed for angle brackets.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I used construct like:
     
    I know it is OT and hope Saker forgives us for this small deviation but let me try. F.e. I go to Yahoo images of Natalie Wood and open her image, right click and copy image location and then directly paste into the post.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I7lUJeMcKns/Thp9cXJrMuI/AAAAAAAAAEg/LNjuwvbiE5Q/s1600/Natalie%2BWood-photo-wallpaper-16.jpg

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  143. polskijoe says:

    Okay I recognize the Russia has lots of problems.
    I wish you guys luck. And all of Europe luck.

    Putin is currupt and probably hordes lots of money (so do all oligarchs around the world).

    Yet he is the ‘best’ option you have.

    The world needs the nation to oppose what the US is doing, to what the West is doing.

    Russia will likely not be a superpower. Just a Eurasian power. Backed up by nukes for the world, which probably wont be used.

    Some of the demographics and some economy has improved. From second rate, you have become the 2nd or 3rd strongest military.

    Im gonna leave several questions:

    1)If the Russians approached average wealth of say Spain/Italians (individuals). Would the Russians stay in the country? What would that do to the mentality of the people?

    2)How many Putin types are in positions of power in Russia? Is he really alone?

    3)I dont know much about Medvedev or his circle. What do they want to do? Someone explain in a few sentence.

    Read More
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  144. @anonymous
    Don't believe the writer for a second. He comes here and paint a colony, Russia, in a good light to fool the dummies. Why Russia does not face the mass murderers, Israel and US, more forcefully. If Russia and Jew lover, Putin, cannot do it then he must fuck off from Syria. Muslims cannot tolerate another Russia and Putin. How many times Russia wants to SELL MUSLIMS TO THE CRIMINAL WEST AND BABY KILLERS, ZIONISTS, and FOR A FEW BONES. We have not forgotten how Russia and traitor Putin SOLD LIBYA. Today, Putin still is COOPERATING WITH CRIMINALS, US AND ISRAEL, to keep the interest of his masters, the Zionist jews. Putin must face it or fuck off now. He cannot turn Syria into different zone of interest and collude with the terrorist Erdogan to save the baby killers, Zionist Jews, and USA. The history tells us that the racist Russians want to repeat the same treason they committed in Iran after WWII, divided Iran into sphere of influence in the North and South, where Russia ruled in the north to steal Iranian territories and South went to the British criminals, colluding with terrorists Americans and Erdogan to control Syria against Assad and Iran. But the traitor Putin cannot do that. People much smarter than he, the Zionist stooge, are.

    As Andrew Korybko in “ The Kurds Have Backed Damascus into a Corner" correctly writes:


    [To that end, Russia wants military hostilities to end as soon as possible so that it can use its influence over the political process to divvy out de-facto spheres of influence to every competitor, thereby making it the indispensable Mideast power. The problem is that both Syria and Iran are against this design: Damascus is opposed in principle and also because it believes that anything less than liberating ‘every square inch” of the country like President Assad promised would discredit him, while Tehran fears that it and its Hezbollah allies will be “backstabbed” during this process and compelled to withdraw from Syria. That’s why these old partners are coordinating with one another in order to keep hostilities simmering for as long as possible in the hope that the resultant uncertainty can create windows of opportunity for them to push back against their Turkish, American, and Israeli rivals’ spheres of influence.
    Russia wised up to their game plan and is increasingly losing patience with both of them, knowing full well that its grand strategic vision risks being undermined by Syria and Iran if these latter two succeed in their objectives. Moscow believes that it has more to gain in the long term and in view of the “bigger picture” by pragmatically going along with Turkey and Israel’s sphere of influence claims while simultaneously reaching a “gentlemen’s agreement” with the US for passively accepting its own in the Kurdish-controlled northeast, but all of Russia’s hard-fought diplomatic-strategic work is now endangered because Syria appears to have heeded Iran’s presumed advice in backing up the PYD-YPG Kurds in Afrin against the Turks.]

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-kurds-have-backed-damascus-into-a-corner/5630031


    Don’t trust Saker for a second. He is misleading. Russia and China, two petty colonies, always have sided with the racist criminal west, against Muslims.

    Great you told us what Putin must do. Certainly he can’t wait to implement your policy proposals.

    Read More
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  145. polskijoe says:
    @yurivku
    You are not Russian, as max you are rossianin, please use your true nationality when writing such a russophobic bs.

    lol… we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.

    “You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality.”

    Its actually sad.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku

    “You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality.”
     
    We have a lot of experiences of that type of "ideas" the are mainly being representing by Russian Jews.
    Let's go back for so called US experts on Russian matters. My lovely is Masha Gessen

    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1307577/thumbs/h-MASHA-GESSEN-RUSSIA-GAY-ACTIVIST-348x516.jpg
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/masha-gessen-in-the-new-yorker-on-white-jurors-bias-against-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/?highlight=Gessen

    They usually are transitional Rossiyane, they are on the way to West, Russophobia is a main thing which they are going to sell in the West. Ok, one more Masha not a big deal, but I'm not gonnal silently listen it.
    This Felix guy just a light copy of her. Even if he was Russian I'd prefer not consider him a relative, but I'm sure he's not.

    Speaking about Russian abortion problems now when in the West all that war, dirty politics, LGBT/faggotry/transgender stuff, criminals in power which while killing civilians a the same time are blaming us for that, it's just high standard of hipocrisy.
    When Russian being insulted and humilated by ZUS, real Russians just getting ready to fight.
    I'm sure that no Russian man who currently being surrounded by enemies can speak that way Felix did.

    , @yurivku

    lol… we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.
     
    BTW we, Slavs, are different. We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
    Poland is main and most aggressive US ass-kisser on the East of Europe so of course we see all that and do our conclusions.

    Yes, most of so called "bratushkas" like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro ... did cooperated with Nazy and/or now are doing that with NATO, so don't address our Slavic origins, we are different and real brothers are those who wouldn't betray and that, pity, certainly are not you. The only one left we can respect (with some limitations) is Serbia.
    Getting back to words of Alexander III - "Russia has only two allies - its army and navy", this is still true.

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  146. polskijoe says:
    @utu

    My view is that Putin is representative of Russian national oligarchy which DOES want to integrate with the western ruling classes but on equal terms.
     
    This how I also see it. For this reason I was always skeptical of those who put hopes in Putin's Russia as a genuine opponent of the Zio-Amercian Empire. Putin actions and in-actions should be understood as playing for time and gaining some leverage for a better position at the negotiating table. They want to sit at the sam table with the Empire while the Empire still sees them as dish to be consumed at this table.

    Maybe some European leadesr might like to improve relations with Russia,

    but… (refering to elites): Anglo countries do not, Countries jammed between Germany and Russia dont. Sweden and Netherlands do not.

    I get the feeling that most of the Western establishment does not want to,
    or can not because of fear or pressure from CIA/US.

    Well you get those groups like Bilderberg, the less known Le Cercle, types who refuse too.

    You get the CFR, Brooking Institute, Chatham House who refuse too.

    They all want to dominate. Not see others as equal partners.

    Read More
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  147. yurivku says:
    @polskijoe
    lol... we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.

    "You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality."

    Its actually sad.

    “You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality.”

    We have a lot of experiences of that type of “ideas” the are mainly being representing by Russian Jews.
    Let’s go back for so called US experts on Russian matters. My lovely is Masha Gessen
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/masha-gessen-in-the-new-yorker-on-white-jurors-bias-against-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/?highlight=Gessen

    They usually are transitional Rossiyane, they are on the way to West, Russophobia is a main thing which they are going to sell in the West. Ok, one more Masha not a big deal, but I’m not gonnal silently listen it.
    This Felix guy just a light copy of her. Even if he was Russian I’d prefer not consider him a relative, but I’m sure he’s not.

    Speaking about Russian abortion problems now when in the West all that war, dirty politics, LGBT/faggotry/transgender stuff, criminals in power which while killing civilians a the same time are blaming us for that, it’s just high standard of hipocrisy.
    When Russian being insulted and humilated by ZUS, real Russians just getting ready to fight.
    I’m sure that no Russian man who currently being surrounded by enemies can speak that way Felix did.

    Read More
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  148. yurivku says:
    @anonymous
    Don't believe the writer for a second. He comes here and paint a colony, Russia, in a good light to fool the dummies. Why Russia does not face the mass murderers, Israel and US, more forcefully. If Russia and Jew lover, Putin, cannot do it then he must fuck off from Syria. Muslims cannot tolerate another Russia and Putin. How many times Russia wants to SELL MUSLIMS TO THE CRIMINAL WEST AND BABY KILLERS, ZIONISTS, and FOR A FEW BONES. We have not forgotten how Russia and traitor Putin SOLD LIBYA. Today, Putin still is COOPERATING WITH CRIMINALS, US AND ISRAEL, to keep the interest of his masters, the Zionist jews. Putin must face it or fuck off now. He cannot turn Syria into different zone of interest and collude with the terrorist Erdogan to save the baby killers, Zionist Jews, and USA. The history tells us that the racist Russians want to repeat the same treason they committed in Iran after WWII, divided Iran into sphere of influence in the North and South, where Russia ruled in the north to steal Iranian territories and South went to the British criminals, colluding with terrorists Americans and Erdogan to control Syria against Assad and Iran. But the traitor Putin cannot do that. People much smarter than he, the Zionist stooge, are.

    As Andrew Korybko in “ The Kurds Have Backed Damascus into a Corner" correctly writes:


    [To that end, Russia wants military hostilities to end as soon as possible so that it can use its influence over the political process to divvy out de-facto spheres of influence to every competitor, thereby making it the indispensable Mideast power. The problem is that both Syria and Iran are against this design: Damascus is opposed in principle and also because it believes that anything less than liberating ‘every square inch” of the country like President Assad promised would discredit him, while Tehran fears that it and its Hezbollah allies will be “backstabbed” during this process and compelled to withdraw from Syria. That’s why these old partners are coordinating with one another in order to keep hostilities simmering for as long as possible in the hope that the resultant uncertainty can create windows of opportunity for them to push back against their Turkish, American, and Israeli rivals’ spheres of influence.
    Russia wised up to their game plan and is increasingly losing patience with both of them, knowing full well that its grand strategic vision risks being undermined by Syria and Iran if these latter two succeed in their objectives. Moscow believes that it has more to gain in the long term and in view of the “bigger picture” by pragmatically going along with Turkey and Israel’s sphere of influence claims while simultaneously reaching a “gentlemen’s agreement” with the US for passively accepting its own in the Kurdish-controlled northeast, but all of Russia’s hard-fought diplomatic-strategic work is now endangered because Syria appears to have heeded Iran’s presumed advice in backing up the PYD-YPG Kurds in Afrin against the Turks.]

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-kurds-have-backed-damascus-into-a-corner/5630031


    Don’t trust Saker for a second. He is misleading. Russia and China, two petty colonies, always have sided with the racist criminal west, against Muslims.

    Don’t trust Saker for a second. He is misleading. Russia and China, two petty colonies, always have sided with the racist criminal west, against Muslims.

    Ok, ok, just calm down.
    You did not say whom should we trust? ZUS? Please clear up this question.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Oh no, siding against Muslims.

    That's bad because ... non-Muslims are typically treated so well when Muslims take power?
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  149. yurivku says:
    @polskijoe
    lol... we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.

    "You no like my ideas you are not part of my ethnic-nationality."

    Its actually sad.

    lol… we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.

    BTW we, Slavs, are different. We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
    Poland is main and most aggressive US ass-kisser on the East of Europe so of course we see all that and do our conclusions.

    Yes, most of so called “bratushkas” like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro … did cooperated with Nazy and/or now are doing that with NATO, so don’t address our Slavic origins, we are different and real brothers are those who wouldn’t betray and that, pity, certainly are not you. The only one left we can respect (with some limitations) is Serbia.
    Getting back to words of Alexander III – “Russia has only two allies – its army and navy”, this is still true.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
     
    Soviets freeing Poland from Nazis is like a guy who frees a woman from a murderer only to enslave her in his basement for 40 years...and then demanding gratitude for saving her life.
    , @polskijoe
    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

    You are assuming all Poles are the same. Polish government antiRussian stance is stupid for sure,
    but Poland is not some aggressive beast. The army is tiny. We dont invade countries.

    You seem to have some paranoia that Poles are out to get you. And that Poles were allies of Nazis?
    More Russians fought with Nazis, than Poles did. How do you answer that?

    Poland never officially allied with Nazis and we fought them from 39-45.

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  150. Seraphim says:
    @Pavlo
    Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports

    The examples you cite don't support your thesis.

    Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes

    He spectacularly failed to bring the country with him.

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    Then Ukrainians served Hitler

    A minority of degenerates. The Ukrainians who brought ruin on Hitler were those on the other side.

    Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union

    The causal connection between this and the demise of the union is not demonstrated.

    I must confess that I have difficulties to reconcile in my mind assertions like “Ukrainians served Hitler”, ‘Banderists’ were the collaborators of Hitler”, “Banderastan”, ‘Ukronazis’ etc with what Wikipedia tells us:
    “On 30 June 1941, with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, Bandera and the OUN-B declared an independent Ukrainian State. Some of the published proclamations of the formation of this state say that it would “work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation.” – as stated in the text of the “Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood”…
    In 1941 relations between Nazi Germany and the OUN-B had soured to the point where a Nazi document dated 25 November 1941 stated that “… the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated…”.[42] On 5 July, Bandera was transferred to Berlin. On 12 July, the prime minister of the newly formed Ukrainian National Government, Yaroslav Stetsko, was also arrested and taken to Berlin. Although released from custody on 14 July, both were required to stay in Berlin. On 15 September 1941 Bandera and leading OUN members were arrested by the Gestapo.
    In January 1942, Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp’s special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by an Reich Main Security Office official to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army.
    In September 1944 Bandera was released by [the German authorities] which hoped that he would incite the native populace to fight the advancing Soviet Army. With German consent Bandera set up headquarters in Berlin…

    “On 30 June 1941, Stetsko declared in Lviv the formation of a Ukrainian National Government which “will closely cooperate with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world” – as stated in the text of the “Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood” Gestapo and Abwehr officials protected Bandera followers, as both organizations intended to use them for their own purposes.
    On 5 July, OUN-B leader Bandera was placed under honorary arrest (Latin: custodia honesta) in Kraków, and transported to Berlin the next day. On 14 July he was released, but required to stay in Berlin. On 12 July 1941 he was joined in Berlin by his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko, whom the Germans had moved from Lviv after an unsuccessful attempt by unknown persons to assassinate him. During July–August both of them submitted dozens of proposals for cooperation to different Nazi institutions (OKW, RSHA etc.) and freely communicate with their followers. After the assassination of two key members of the Melnyk OUN, said to have been carried out by members of the OUN-B, Bandera and Stetsko were held in the central Berlin prison at Spandau from 15 September 1941 until January 1942, when they were transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp’s special barrack for high-profile political prisoners, Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by Otto Skorzeny to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army…

    “In September 1941, the Gestapo began registering known Ukrainian nationalists and from 1941 to 1943 over 80% of the UON-B leadership was arrested. The UON-M fared slightly better, but even their sycophancy failed to protect them from German disdain and the organisation was outlawed in 1942.
    Bandera’s family suffered too: his two brothers were killed by Polish prisoners in Auschwitz, another brother may have been executed by either the Gestapo or the NKVD (his fate is officially unknown), his father was executed by the Soviets for harbouring an UON fugitive and his sisters were exiled to a Siberian GULAG by the Soviet secret police”.

    Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko have been interned in German concentration camps like other ‘fascists’ supposedly stooges of Nazis (like the so-called Iron Guard from Romania) until August 1944 (the defection of Romania from the Nazi camp) and freed only when the Nazis realized that they were losing the war and thought that they can use them against the advance of the Red Army. Only later, the OUN-B was re-formed in 1946 under the sponsorship of MI6. The organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera’s organization, associated with Mykola Lebed, became more closely associated with the CIA…

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    • Replies: @Pavlo
    That is what the Banderists were - but no relationship is without friction.

    And Stepan Andreyevich was a naughty little boy - couldn't stop murdering rival Ukrainian nationalists, made things terribly untidy*. The Reich smacked him and sent him to his room until he was ready to behave himself.

    Wiki - in any language - should be taken with a grain of salt since any page of contemporary political importance is bound to have been monkeyed with by one side or the other. The Polish and Ukrainian language pages on Ukrainian nationalism make for an amusing contrast.

    *Taras Borovets appealed to Bandera and OUN-B to please oh please stop slaughtering his followers. Borovets' tear-stained letter was ignored, but that didn't stop him attending Bandera's funeral, the miserable little bitch.
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  151. @yurivku

    One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000.
    ...
    The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.
     
    It's interesting to see like you, actually foreigners, despite having some Russian origin (you, Saker ...), and especially clean foreigners making categorical statements about Russia's life and policy.
    But ok, I'll add some "chaff" here to your unbeatable statements.

    To your list should be added support of 5th column, it's partly mentioned in your 1st point, but problem is much more complex and deeper. Not only get stolen money back and hang Chubais (which of course could be a big pleasure), but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It's his way of life, he's built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It's useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he'll try to keep system in it's state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it's a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it's not a mafunctioning of a system, it's a part of it.

    System absolutely indifferent to people it's provided to guard. It's even not thinking of long term its own survival - education and science, medicine, bith rate. It's being concentrated only on high priority clear tasks like selfdefence and self-sufficency. Even latter has began to be developed in great scale only after sanctions (Thanx Obama & Co).

    So statements of Saker and others about people hating communists and faked Grudinin are fake and total misunderstanding of Russia (which BTW is not only Moscow).
    Who people really hate are oligarchs and the West (mainly US). All the negative to communists left in 1990. It's true for most people not counting liberals (called hear as liberast for being in rhyme with pederast) and gays/LGBT. Both these minorities actulally mainly the same people, luckily.

    And Grudinin is not candidate of communist party - he is candidate from block of patriotic forces, which is much more and actually the ideas of that block being supported by many, I could have said even by majority, but unfortunately is's not the case yet. If this candidate had equal rights in MSM, if the voutes were counted correctly there was a real chance to win.
    But it's unlikely.

    And for stupid statement of Saker's of Grudinin being a desired candidates for ZUS - let's not forget that the West is being ruled by imbeciles. So even if they think so - let's them to continue.
    BTW we also were thinking that there is no nobody worse than Killary Clinton. Do we think like that now ? :-)


    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

    Just a quick note that the “patriot” Grudinin believes that the LDNR (population: 3 million; troops: 30,000) should resolve its issues with the Ukraine (population: 40 million; troops: 250,000) without Russian support.

    Though to be quite expected of someone with millions stashed away in foreign bank accounts (a proud tradition of Russian patriots).

    So, one of the cases where The Saker is actually spot on.

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    • Replies: @yurivku

    Though to be quite expected of someone with millions stashed away in foreign bank accounts (a proud tradition of Russian patriots).

     

    Yes it's a best tradition of our liberals to create their own or repeat created before lies on patriotic people.
    As he many times proved he has no billions nor millions on foreign bank accounts and seems like you should not blame him to be not poor. He did not buy football tem neither he bought a big boat.

    The only funny thing about this is that this lie was created by Putin's team who's liberals should be in opposition.
    That's an old scheme to put a dirt in MSM, but not the rebuttal (ложки нашлись, но осадок остался).
    This is one more provement that relations of Putin with the 5th column is much more complex than Saker believes.
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  152. Art Deco says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Here you go:

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/attitudes-to-being-rich.png

    I’ll wager a number of vectors produce those metrics, one being that the more pervasive the sense of insecurity, the more people seek money as a sword and a shield. Another would be the breakdown in the culture at large of non-pecuniary sources of status. Another is ‘social desirability’ of equalitarian sentiments in certain cultures, as well as the acceptability of duplicity. (I don’t think the French respondents were being honest; they’re just being French, and you take them seriously but not literally).

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  153. AP says:
    @yurivku

    lol… we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.
     
    BTW we, Slavs, are different. We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
    Poland is main and most aggressive US ass-kisser on the East of Europe so of course we see all that and do our conclusions.

    Yes, most of so called "bratushkas" like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro ... did cooperated with Nazy and/or now are doing that with NATO, so don't address our Slavic origins, we are different and real brothers are those who wouldn't betray and that, pity, certainly are not you. The only one left we can respect (with some limitations) is Serbia.
    Getting back to words of Alexander III - "Russia has only two allies - its army and navy", this is still true.

    We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.

    Soviets freeing Poland from Nazis is like a guy who frees a woman from a murderer only to enslave her in his basement for 40 years…and then demanding gratitude for saving her life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    I do not speak with Uks.

    Yes, most of so called “bratushkas” like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro …
     
    But here you reminded me (thanx) the main Slavic betrator, the most despicable - Ukraine.
    Sorry for forgetting, it's my fault.
    , @Sergey Krieger
    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement? Roaming kanalizaciya ? Populations are in free fall onviously outcome of accepting 30 srebrennikov .Btw, I see you are a good friend of Poles, maybe you should give back Lviv and surroundings and Poland should returns those German lands gifted by so bad Russia back to Germany good friend of all Slavs.
    , @Gerard2

    Soviets freeing Poland from Nazis is like a guy who frees a woman from a murderer only to enslave her in his basement for 40 years…and then demanding gratitude for saving her life
     
    .

    Taking your retarded, attention-whore comment, literally...... she would have had to have already been in that basement before that murderer got there, then had this sinking rotting, collapsing basement restored,upgraded and increased by 1/6th of it's original size, free of charge, no interest, no debts,.....then had her go back for consultations and pay for further work by this "enslaver" for 10 years continuously after her "enslavement". Oh, and prior to the attempted murder the woman would have been some kamikaze, manic depressive suicidal nutjob constantly trying to kill herself for 200 years ......

    Poland at the end of the 80's was about 1/3rd pro-Communist, 1/3rd who weren't bothered either way and 1/3rd anti-soviet you dumb prick.This "enslavement" is simply the fantasy of a moronic cretin son/grandson of some UPA cowardly scumbag American.....further amplified by the dramatic increase in population and life expectancy for 30 years after 1945 you dumb POS. What's more, Poland was solidly leftist for 10 years after Communism, with many of the former ruling elite involved in key governing positions.


    Plus it's not only about Russia saving Poland from extinction ( a n extinction that would have been deserved, at least at elite level) after World War 2 , the only periods in it's time when Poland hasn't been at war, or preparing for war has only been when under Russian control.
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  154. Pavlo says:
    @Seraphim
    I must confess that I have difficulties to reconcile in my mind assertions like "Ukrainians served Hitler", 'Banderists' were the collaborators of Hitler", "Banderastan", 'Ukronazis' etc with what Wikipedia tells us:
    "On 30 June 1941, with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, Bandera and the OUN-B declared an independent Ukrainian State. Some of the published proclamations of the formation of this state say that it would "work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation." – as stated in the text of the "Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood"...
    In 1941 relations between Nazi Germany and the OUN-B had soured to the point where a Nazi document dated 25 November 1941 stated that "... the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated...".[42] On 5 July, Bandera was transferred to Berlin. On 12 July, the prime minister of the newly formed Ukrainian National Government, Yaroslav Stetsko, was also arrested and taken to Berlin. Although released from custody on 14 July, both were required to stay in Berlin. On 15 September 1941 Bandera and leading OUN members were arrested by the Gestapo.
    In January 1942, Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by an Reich Main Security Office official to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army.
    In September 1944 Bandera was released by [the German authorities] which hoped that he would incite the native populace to fight the advancing Soviet Army. With German consent Bandera set up headquarters in Berlin...

    "On 30 June 1941, Stetsko declared in Lviv the formation of a Ukrainian National Government which "will closely cooperate with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world" – as stated in the text of the "Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood" Gestapo and Abwehr officials protected Bandera followers, as both organizations intended to use them for their own purposes.
    On 5 July, OUN-B leader Bandera was placed under honorary arrest (Latin: custodia honesta) in Kraków, and transported to Berlin the next day. On 14 July he was released, but required to stay in Berlin. On 12 July 1941 he was joined in Berlin by his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko, whom the Germans had moved from Lviv after an unsuccessful attempt by unknown persons to assassinate him. During July–August both of them submitted dozens of proposals for cooperation to different Nazi institutions (OKW, RSHA etc.) and freely communicate with their followers. After the assassination of two key members of the Melnyk OUN, said to have been carried out by members of the OUN-B, Bandera and Stetsko were held in the central Berlin prison at Spandau from 15 September 1941 until January 1942, when they were transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners, Zellenbau.
    In April 1944 Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by Otto Skorzeny to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army...

    "In September 1941, the Gestapo began registering known Ukrainian nationalists and from 1941 to 1943 over 80% of the UON-B leadership was arrested. The UON-M fared slightly better, but even their sycophancy failed to protect them from German disdain and the organisation was outlawed in 1942.
    Bandera’s family suffered too: his two brothers were killed by Polish prisoners in Auschwitz, another brother may have been executed by either the Gestapo or the NKVD (his fate is officially unknown), his father was executed by the Soviets for harbouring an UON fugitive and his sisters were exiled to a Siberian GULAG by the Soviet secret police".

    Stepan Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko have been interned in German concentration camps like other 'fascists' supposedly stooges of Nazis (like the so-called Iron Guard from Romania) until August 1944 (the defection of Romania from the Nazi camp) and freed only when the Nazis realized that they were losing the war and thought that they can use them against the advance of the Red Army. Only later, the OUN-B was re-formed in 1946 under the sponsorship of MI6. The organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera's organization, associated with Mykola Lebed, became more closely associated with the CIA...

    That is what the Banderists were – but no relationship is without friction.

    And Stepan Andreyevich was a naughty little boy – couldn’t stop murdering rival Ukrainian nationalists, made things terribly untidy*. The Reich smacked him and sent him to his room until he was ready to behave himself.

    Wiki – in any language – should be taken with a grain of salt since any page of contemporary political importance is bound to have been monkeyed with by one side or the other. The Polish and Ukrainian language pages on Ukrainian nationalism make for an amusing contrast.

    *Taras Borovets appealed to Bandera and OUN-B to please oh please stop slaughtering his followers. Borovets’ tear-stained letter was ignored, but that didn’t stop him attending Bandera’s funeral, the miserable little bitch.

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  155. yurivku says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Just a quick note that the "patriot" Grudinin believes that the LDNR (population: 3 million; troops: 30,000) should resolve its issues with the Ukraine (population: 40 million; troops: 250,000) without Russian support.

    Though to be quite expected of someone with millions stashed away in foreign bank accounts (a proud tradition of Russian patriots).

    So, one of the cases where The Saker is actually spot on.

    Though to be quite expected of someone with millions stashed away in foreign bank accounts (a proud tradition of Russian patriots).

    Yes it’s a best tradition of our liberals to create their own or repeat created before lies on patriotic people.
    As he many times proved he has no billions nor millions on foreign bank accounts and seems like you should not blame him to be not poor. He did not buy football tem neither he bought a big boat.

    The only funny thing about this is that this lie was created by Putin’s team who’s liberals should be in opposition.
    That’s an old scheme to put a dirt in MSM, but not the rebuttal (ложки нашлись, но осадок остался).
    This is one more provement that relations of Putin with the 5th column is much more complex than Saker believes.

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  156. @Gerard2

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country.
     
    To be fair, Karlin does speak English in a heavily russian accent, unlike that Americanised liberast dickhead Pozner. This suggests to me that in his time in America, Karlin always spoke Russian at home and probably made regular and lengthy trips to Russia.

    He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.
     
    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the "achievements" of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002. As for the undoubtedly russophobic and liberal garbage comments he occasionally makes, I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant.....in other words just trying to increase his profile.....which he is entitled to do.

    Anatoly speaks English with a Russian accent and he has gone to Russia to live. So I value his thoughts far about Saker’s babblings.

    Did anybody take away your right to value one thing over another? In related news, I know one Uncle Misha in one of the villages near Moscow where some of our relatives live, he is 80+, worked all his life as a plumber, and knows about two words in English with a heavy Russian accent (come to think about it–he may know even 3 or 4 words)–I personally value his opinions on Russia above Karlin’s. I am sure your argumentation is impeccable.

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  157. yurivku says:
    @AP

    We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
     
    Soviets freeing Poland from Nazis is like a guy who frees a woman from a murderer only to enslave her in his basement for 40 years...and then demanding gratitude for saving her life.

    I do not speak with Uks.

    Yes, most of so called “bratushkas” like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro …

    But here you reminded me (thanx) the main Slavic betrator, the most despicable – Ukraine.
    Sorry for forgetting, it’s my fault.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    I looks like in your little mind, most Slavs are Slavic "betrayers."
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  158. @Gerard2

    Karlin is not Russian in full sense of the word, in fact he is not Russian culturally at all–he is a product of American system of education (that is dumbing down), he was raised and brought up in the US and elsewhere but in Russia and now, since he speaks Russian, he thinks he knows something about that country.
     
    To be fair, Karlin does speak English in a heavily russian accent, unlike that Americanised liberast dickhead Pozner. This suggests to me that in his time in America, Karlin always spoke Russian at home and probably made regular and lengthy trips to Russia.

    He pretends to be Russian “nationalist” since it is the only way for him to hide his utterly liberal nature and Russophobia.
     
    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the "achievements" of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002. As for the undoubtedly russophobic and liberal garbage comments he occasionally makes, I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant.....in other words just trying to increase his profile.....which he is entitled to do.

    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the “achievements” of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002.

    I cannot explain to you how much and on how many levels this statement of your is wrong, since Russian media were filled with thorough analysis of Georgia’s internal situation for a long long years. It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.

    I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant…..in other words just trying to increase his profile…..which he is entitled to do.

    You are missing the point completely here, sorry. The issue is not what Karlin does and what sort of sh.t he deals with. At issue here is the fact of some barely out of college guy with no serious education and with zero life-experiences trying to speak out on the matters in which he by definition has no even remote understanding and spreading a variety of sorts of BS. I guess his IQ fetish is partially explained by his desire to compensate for his utter lack of any relevant knowledge or skills. Make your choice, whom do you want to perform open heart surgery on yourself (God forbids you will need one)–a qualified surgeon or a plumber? I agree with your comment on increasing the profile, though–that is the name of the game for him.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.
     
    No, the high school part is your invention.

    However, I did do it in 2008, when the consensus - including amongst most demographic professionals - was far more pessimistic.

    Three years ago, I predicted – going against 90%+ of “experts” – that the medium-term future of Russia’s demography is stagnation or small increase. In late 2009, I wrote that even under undemanding assumptions, “the population size will remain basically stagnant, going from 142mn to 143mn by 2023 before slowly slipping down to 138mn by 2050.” To give an example, the 2008 World Population Prospects of the UN Population Division predicted Russia’s population would fall to 132.3mn in 2025 and 116.1mn in 2050.
     
    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay, of course, but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite... well, let's just say I'm not the one on whom it's reflecting badly.
    , @Gerard2

    I cannot explain to you how much and on how many levels this statement of your is wrong, since Russian media were filled with thorough analysis of Georgia’s internal situation for a long long years. It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.
     
    Ok, you could be right...but even if he is plagiarizing it......he's still bringing facts to the western blogosphere audience who would otherwise be critically uninformed
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  159. @AP

    We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
     
    Soviets freeing Poland from Nazis is like a guy who frees a woman from a murderer only to enslave her in his basement for 40 years...and then demanding gratitude for saving her life.

    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement? Roaming kanalizaciya ? Populations are in free fall onviously outcome of accepting 30 srebrennikov .Btw, I see you are a good friend of Poles, maybe you should give back Lviv and surroundings and Poland should returns those German lands gifted by so bad Russia back to Germany good friend of all Slavs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement?
     
    Poland is doing much better now, than in the 1980s.

    As is Russia.

    Ukraine's Sovok elite bungled things, but there has been steady improvement since 2016.

    Populations are in free fall
     
    Poland had 37.96 million people in 1989 and 37.95 million in 2016. Such a freefall.

    Western Ukraine's population has been stable - but eastern Sovoks have been disappearing due to lack of reproduction. That's not a tragedy.
    , @polskijoe
    Populations are in free fall?
    This is happening all Slavic countries. Check the birthrates vs death rates. Low Fertility rates.

    Poland and Ukraine are different. Generally speaking Poland gained after leaving USSR influence.
    Ukraine went the opposite direction.

    During Commie times Poland was not doing well in many areas. Only military and some industry.
    Now its more peaceful.

    Dont take this as antiRussian, because I really am not.
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  160. yurivku says:
    @RadicalCenter
    I’m an American and proud of it. But compare us to the country we had when the Soviets were predicting our downfall: we now have VASTLY higher levels of government debt, private household debt, opioid addiction, disability real and exaggerated, children born to people who never marry or even live together consistently, long-term underemployment of intelligent hardworking qualified people, infrastructure decay (failing roads and bridges), long-term welfare dependency, open hatred and intimidation or worse against whites, a Mexican “fifth column” that is being led to separatism and hostility against us (and is attaining the number to take political power and eventually secede), and more.

    We are far less socially and culturally cohesive than we were back then, in substantial part due to the suicidal decision to admit tens of millions of people of different races to settle here who do not share enough of our values, traditions, expectations, and do not have loyalty to us or our NATION.

    This includes one racial group (jewish people) and one religious group (Muslims) that are inherently untrustworthy because of their conception of non-members / goyim / infidels as inferior human beings to be manipulated, harmed, exploited, and subjugated. This will make a critical difference in times of real scarcity and deprivation, let alone a major war.

    Whether or not it made sense to predict the usa’s collapse or impoverishment 30 or 60 years ago, it is an altogether too plausible prediction these days.

    I’m an American and proud of it.

    It’s interesting to know what are you proud of? Maby with all these achivements:

    https://russia-insider.com/en/if-america-wasnt-america-united-states-would-be-bombing-it/ri22615

    I think there is a time to be ashamed of this.

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  161. AP says:
    @yurivku
    I do not speak with Uks.

    Yes, most of so called “bratushkas” like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro …
     
    But here you reminded me (thanx) the main Slavic betrator, the most despicable - Ukraine.
    Sorry for forgetting, it's my fault.

    I looks like in your little mind, most Slavs are Slavic “betrayers.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    He He He. Good one!
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  162. @yurivku

    The Russians are amoral people in a very literal sense of the word: questions of morality do not feature prominently in their lifes.
     
    Look don't speak about Russians it's clear which nationality you are. And even you are still in Russia (which I doubt) it't not for long. Such people as you are filling rows of Mashas Gessens and continue to pour their dirt from US/UK/Israel ... Actually the sooner you'll leave the better.

    As a Russian, I cannot recognise my countrymen in this lubok picture he is creating.
     
    Just incredible. I guess if you saw any live Russian.

    There is a stream of personal insults here, that fails to adress any of the points I made. And implying that I may be a Jew is hillarious given my commenting history.

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    • Replies: @yurivku
    It was you who insulted all Russians at once, so I'm not begging a pardon.
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  163. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement? Roaming kanalizaciya ? Populations are in free fall onviously outcome of accepting 30 srebrennikov .Btw, I see you are a good friend of Poles, maybe you should give back Lviv and surroundings and Poland should returns those German lands gifted by so bad Russia back to Germany good friend of all Slavs.

    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement?

    Poland is doing much better now, than in the 1980s.

    As is Russia.

    Ukraine’s Sovok elite bungled things, but there has been steady improvement since 2016.

    Populations are in free fall

    Poland had 37.96 million people in 1989 and 37.95 million in 2016. Such a freefall.

    Western Ukraine’s population has been stable – but eastern Sovoks have been disappearing due to lack of reproduction. That’s not a tragedy.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine but Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing. I wonder what I will find if I start digging debt and GDP structure. We have different views on what is better. Judas always have different views from not Judas.
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  164. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Há uma razão por qual ninguém seguiu Kerensky e sua brigada maçônica, enquanto os bolcheviques receberam muito apoio das pessoas, apesar do seu acidente ódio pela religião e sua russofobia.

    The Bolsheviks were not nationalists, but their anti-imperialism led them to defend Russia against Western imperialism, while ‘moderate’ liberals and socialists like Kerensky were concerned only to follow in the footsteps of the English and French, whom they had in charge of creatures. In the unlikely possibility that people like Kerensky, Miliukov and Terestchenko had remained in power, Russia would have been crushed still in 1918, and transformed into Franco-British protectorates, as was the case with most of the Ottoman empire (Turkey herself escaped from become a protectorate only because of Ataturk’s nationalist uprising).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Actually the fact that even Turkey (active enemy of the Entente, population 10x smaller than Russian Empire's, perhaps 50x less industrial output) did not become an Anglo-French protectorate would suggest to rational people that the likelihood of it happening to Russia was approximately zero, with or without the Bolsheviks.
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  165. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Pavlo
    Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports

    The examples you cite don't support your thesis.

    Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes

    He spectacularly failed to bring the country with him.

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    Then Ukrainians served Hitler

    A minority of degenerates. The Ukrainians who brought ruin on Hitler were those on the other side.

    Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union

    The causal connection between this and the demise of the union is not demonstrated.

    Anon from TN
    It is heartening to know that there are sane people in Ukraine (i.e., if you live there, which I doubt). However, current Ukrainian authorities made the scum like Mazepa, Petlura, Bandera, and Shukhevych heroes of their Ukraine. The population does not protest, which means they are complicit in this defamation of Ukraine. It could have been a country, but failed miserably. RIP.

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  166. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000.
    ...
    The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.
     
    It's interesting to see like you, actually foreigners, despite having some Russian origin (you, Saker ...), and especially clean foreigners making categorical statements about Russia's life and policy.
    But ok, I'll add some "chaff" here to your unbeatable statements.

    To your list should be added support of 5th column, it's partly mentioned in your 1st point, but problem is much more complex and deeper. Not only get stolen money back and hang Chubais (which of course could be a big pleasure), but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It's his way of life, he's built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It's useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he'll try to keep system in it's state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it's a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it's not a mafunctioning of a system, it's a part of it.

    System absolutely indifferent to people it's provided to guard. It's even not thinking of long term its own survival - education and science, medicine, bith rate. It's being concentrated only on high priority clear tasks like selfdefence and self-sufficency. Even latter has began to be developed in great scale only after sanctions (Thanx Obama & Co).

    So statements of Saker and others about people hating communists and faked Grudinin are fake and total misunderstanding of Russia (which BTW is not only Moscow).
    Who people really hate are oligarchs and the West (mainly US). All the negative to communists left in 1990. It's true for most people not counting liberals (called hear as liberast for being in rhyme with pederast) and gays/LGBT. Both these minorities actulally mainly the same people, luckily.

    And Grudinin is not candidate of communist party - he is candidate from block of patriotic forces, which is much more and actually the ideas of that block being supported by many, I could have said even by majority, but unfortunately is's not the case yet. If this candidate had equal rights in MSM, if the voutes were counted correctly there was a real chance to win.
    But it's unlikely.

    And for stupid statement of Saker's of Grudinin being a desired candidates for ZUS - let's not forget that the West is being ruled by imbeciles. So even if they think so - let's them to continue.
    BTW we also were thinking that there is no nobody worse than Killary Clinton. Do we think like that now ? :-)


    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

    Anon from TN
    You are raising many valid points. I agree that a lot of weaknesses of present-day Russia are parts of the rotten system Putin inherited (he did not build it, it was built by “liberasts” in the 1990s, under Yeltsin). And yes, the West in its unbelievable stupidity actually boosted Putin’s popularity and forced him to do things that are good for the country in the long run. Western elites degenerated since the collapse of the USSR, and the process now appears irreversible. I disagree with one point only: that Grudinin is any better.
    I’d also like to remind you that I am not in the same boat as Saker. He never lived in Russia, whereas I did until 1991. I am not sure whether he has Russian citizenship, but I do.

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    • Replies: @yurivku
    Well, I know your story and I agree with most of your points, but not with this one ;-)
    But I think your future certainly will be out of Russia. I'm not going to blame you, but it's a fact. Quite a few of my schoolmates are now abroad, the best friends, matheticians, 20 years working in Mexico's university. The are watchinng Russian tv And internet resources, will vote for Grudinin, but the are lost for country which is really bad.
    The are doing very well and it's clear they couldn't achive this here. It's also.to blame Putin
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  167. @AP

    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement?
     
    Poland is doing much better now, than in the 1980s.

    As is Russia.

    Ukraine's Sovok elite bungled things, but there has been steady improvement since 2016.

    Populations are in free fall
     
    Poland had 37.96 million people in 1989 and 37.95 million in 2016. Such a freefall.

    Western Ukraine's population has been stable - but eastern Sovoks have been disappearing due to lack of reproduction. That's not a tragedy.

    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine but Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing. I wonder what I will find if I start digging debt and GDP structure. We have different views on what is better. Judas always have different views from not Judas.

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    • Agree: yurivku, Kiza
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out that the apologist of Poland “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before, and if there were, did Poles consider that period successful.
    , @yurivku
    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.
    It's really a thing which Slavs ( and Russians should be ahamed of )
    , @AP

    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine
     
    As I said, Ukraine's population freefall is due to eastern Sovoks failing to reproduce. There has been no freefall in the western parts of the country.

    Since you are a proud Sovok yourself, you are essentially just making fun of your own people.

    For example, Donetsk oblast had 5.3 million people in 1991, and 4.3 million people in 2013 (before the war). Loss of 1 milli0n or almost 20% of Sovoks.

    Lviv oblast had a little under 2.8 million people in 1991, 2.5 million in 2013. About 100,000 of these missing were Russians and Jews who left Lviv after independence. So loss of 200,000 or 7%.

    Not good, but, at least, better than in Russia. There were about 120 million ethnic Russians in Russia in 1989, 111 million in 2010 - loss of 9%. And it is probably lower now.

    Transcarpathia oblast has had a population increase since 1989. 1.252 million in 1989, 1.256 million in 2014.

    Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing
     
    Poland's manufacturing collapsed in late 80s and had improved significantly since then. For example Poland was making about 400,000 automobiles per year in the early 1980s, almost 700,000 in 2016.
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  168. AaronB says:
    @utu
    Your imputations that AK is some kind of leftist and crypto-Leninist and so on are totally wrong. The leftists are not winning where it really matters. He prefers to be on the winning side.

    You wrapping yourself in a humanitarian banner
     

    there are certainly people who sincerely believe the sort of BS you push
     
    I do not think you will find more than one ounce of humanitarianism in him. He is rather the might-makes-right guy who will position himself on the meaner side because this side is usually more likely to win. The gateway to it for young men are utopian/dystopian science-fiction novels and then being snatched by libertarianism. There is no metaphysics as it is too deep and thus it is replaced with scientism. It is all superficial and trite with a lot of hype as any TED talk you may hear. Darwinism and its bastard IQism is given inordinate explanatory power. Transhumanism is the ersatz transcendentalism in this belief system. It takes some intelligence to hold this kind of universe together. Being on the autistic side of the spectrum (like Sailer) helps. One focuses on numbers, statistics and data that then one force to conform to Darwinism and IQism. The confirmation bias in this pseudo-scientific endeavor rules all the time. The same autistic elements help to shield one from human and humanitarian instincts like expressing empathy and compassion for underdogs that could potentially put dangerous cracks in this Weltanschauung. Ultimately everybody is a machine though for some unexplained reason there will be big cries when one's rights are violated without ever question why did the machine came into the possession of any rights. And yes, there are many people who have been seduced or snatched by it. Chiefly by lack of early exposure to classical education and decline of religion in society.

    Is his side really winning? On the surface when one looks at media or TED talks populated by vulgar Darwinists like Pinkers or Sam Harrises and all the neocons and they power and then at glorification and triumphalism of being a member of the tribe one may get an impression that yes, this side is winning. But who know, perhaps this is only a superstructure created by media that does not have legs to go long distance.

    Truly brilliant and insightful comment.

    Thank you.

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  169. Art Deco says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Just to be clear that this is coming from a person who left Russia in the early 1990s of his own free will and has been living in the US ever since.
     
    Yes, I left the remnants of USSR in my early 30s, being a grown up man and having some experiences in my life of which you can not even conceive. This is apart from losing everything we had in Azerbaijan. Feel the difference? Per your graphs--Karlin, how do you think if Western major institutes: economic, intelligence, military, to name a few, provided the world with a whopper of a failure to predict and forecast correctly most of the dynamics in post 9-11 world, with complete implosion of the so called American Russia expertdom being the most strategically and historically consequential, what should be my attitude to them. Mind you, those people, unlike you, many of them have a plethora of Ph.D degrees in all kinds of fields, publish regularly and yet--all they knew, including their "statistics", turned out to be a complete crap--both about the West and, especially, Russia. How much do you think am I interested in discussing anything with pundit like you on the subject of which you have no grasp whatsoever and use the same methods which are completely discredited by now? Do you remember this:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you. I'll be deliberately blunt--you simply lack academic, experience and other faculties required for understanding these issues. If the whole massive American Russia "study" field, with all of its massive inputs of academe, humint, signint, analytical institutions, think-tankdom couldn't figure it out and failed miserably, what do you think is your input and place in all that? Some graphs from dubious sources, with dubious statistics, some data manipulation, some tendentious ideas and some dubious political views totally detached from reality? You have your audience and God bless but don't expect not to be called out. Your voice on Russia has the same worth as that of Anne Applebaum, Julia Ioffe or Masha Gessen. Absolutely the same.

    I am absolutely not interested in discussing anything mathematics, real statistics, military, geopolitical or historic related about USSR/Russia with you.

    If you weren’t interested, you wouldn’t keep posting. There must be some motive for dumping this sort of trash talk on every other thread. Why not come clean about it?

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  170. @AP
    I looks like in your little mind, most Slavs are Slavic "betrayers."

    He He He. Good one!

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  171. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine but Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing. I wonder what I will find if I start digging debt and GDP structure. We have different views on what is better. Judas always have different views from not Judas.

    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out that the apologist of Poland “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before, and if there were, did Poles consider that period successful.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Lol. They will consider it successful anyway. Just for the honor of being part of the West even if sleeping near lavatory.
    , @AP

    “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before
     
    True of most of Europe when one doesn't include non-European migrants. So?

    Yurivku claimed population "freefall." There has been none.
    , @Anon 2
    Actually, Poland's zero population growth is better than the population
    declines most EU countries are experiencing due to "below replacement"
    fertility rates. For example, Germany is losing about 200-250,000 ethnic
    Germans a year (presumably they are being replaced by Muslim migrants).
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  172. @anon

    Há uma razão por qual ninguém seguiu Kerensky e sua brigada maçônica, enquanto os bolcheviques receberam muito apoio das pessoas, apesar do seu acidente ódio pela religião e sua russofobia.
     
    The Bolsheviks were not nationalists, but their anti-imperialism led them to defend Russia against Western imperialism, while 'moderate' liberals and socialists like Kerensky were concerned only to follow in the footsteps of the English and French, whom they had in charge of creatures. In the unlikely possibility that people like Kerensky, Miliukov and Terestchenko had remained in power, Russia would have been crushed still in 1918, and transformed into Franco-British protectorates, as was the case with most of the Ottoman empire (Turkey herself escaped from become a protectorate only because of Ataturk's nationalist uprising).

    Actually the fact that even Turkey (active enemy of the Entente, population 10x smaller than Russian Empire’s, perhaps 50x less industrial output) did not become an Anglo-French protectorate would suggest to rational people that the likelihood of it happening to Russia was approximately zero, with or without the Bolsheviks.

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    • Replies: @anon
    The Treaty of Sevres had reduced what remained of Turkey to a vassal state of the Western powers. It just did not become the law of the land thanks to Ataturk.
    It must be remembered that Western imperialism had in fact reduced the Chinese empire, with a population much larger than that of Russia, as well as transformed India into a colony. Western imperialism can not be underestimated, and it can always count on convenient allies, often sought among the worst segments of the population, in the countries it intends to subdue.
    Moreover, if there is someone who can not be accused of 'rational' is the supposed 'paladin of the people' Alexander Kerensky.
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  173. @Andrei Martyanov

    Could well be true, but he did a great and thoroughly comprehensive blog post a few years ago dismantling the myths of the “achievements” of Saakashvili and the Georgian state as a whole after 2002.
     
    I cannot explain to you how much and on how many levels this statement of your is wrong, since Russian media were filled with thorough analysis of Georgia's internal situation for a long long years. It is from the same universe as Karlin's statement that when he attended high school he "predicted" Russia's demographic improvement.

    I think this could just be a ruse to get liberast vermin onto the blog or on twitter to converse with him- , as he does with Bershidsky and the other retards like this nobody called Kovalev and Roland Eliphant…..in other words just trying to increase his profile…..which he is entitled to do.
     
    You are missing the point completely here, sorry. The issue is not what Karlin does and what sort of sh.t he deals with. At issue here is the fact of some barely out of college guy with no serious education and with zero life-experiences trying to speak out on the matters in which he by definition has no even remote understanding and spreading a variety of sorts of BS. I guess his IQ fetish is partially explained by his desire to compensate for his utter lack of any relevant knowledge or skills. Make your choice, whom do you want to perform open heart surgery on yourself (God forbids you will need one)--a qualified surgeon or a plumber? I agree with your comment on increasing the profile, though--that is the name of the game for him.

    It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.

    No, the high school part is your invention.

    However, I did do it in 2008, when the consensus – including amongst most demographic professionals – was far more pessimistic.

    Three years ago, I predicted – going against 90%+ of “experts” – that the medium-term future of Russia’s demography is stagnation or small increase. In late 2009, I wrote that even under undemanding assumptions, “the population size will remain basically stagnant, going from 142mn to 143mn by 2023 before slowly slipping down to 138mn by 2050.” To give an example, the 2008 World Population Prospects of the UN Population Division predicted Russia’s population would fall to 132.3mn in 2025 and 116.1mn in 2050.

    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay, of course, but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite… well, let’s just say I’m not the one on whom it’s reflecting badly.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    No, the high school part is your invention.
     
    Same as your "predictions" which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, "predictions" not to mention a massive public discussion, from which you "extrapolated" your conclusions, which is to say--simply appropriated somebody's forecasts and ideas on demography. Now, would you mind telling what age were you at 2008? As per demography "discussion" I did it once, I repeat it again--you were barely from middle-school when public debate on this issue started in earnest. Moreover, Maternity Capital program was initiated in 2006 which immediately generates not only warranted but irresistible question--what this:

    However, I did do it in 2008
     
    Has anything to do with 2006 and couple of years prior open discussion on Russia's demography?


    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay
     
    That is revealing, isn't it?

    but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite… well, let’s just say I’m not the one on whom it’s reflecting badly.
     
    Karlin, you are throwing a lot of invectives from a glass house of your well-documented flops in just about anything you are trying to predict or write about Russia and world at large. If you want me to demonstrate that, we may get busy with that, thankfully your ventures into the fields you have no idea are well documented here. I already reminded you about your writings on military issues, you geopolitical "analysis" is altogether a manifestation of militant ignorance and these are just a few things.

    including amongst most demographic professionals
     
    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West's "professionals", not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called "academe". This almost brought the world to the brink of a world war III and already translated into the new and much more dangerous Cold War 2.0. You, obviously, being a product of US "humanities" madras, still do not understand that this whole system can not find its own ass in a brightly lit room with own two hands, not to speak--yet, you continue to parade your ignorance writing on subject you have no clue about. I will repeat again--you, Masha Gessen, Julia Ioffe, basically whole neo-con cabal are the berries of the same field. As I stated--you should find employment at Echo Matsy or any rag with ties to, whoever you "heroes" are--Sobchak, Prosvirnin, Navalny or whatever collection of freaks who will pay you for you pseudo-intellectual rubbish. You will be called out, though, as it is being done here.
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  174. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    You are raising many valid points. I agree that a lot of weaknesses of present-day Russia are parts of the rotten system Putin inherited (he did not build it, it was built by “liberasts” in the 1990s, under Yeltsin). And yes, the West in its unbelievable stupidity actually boosted Putin’s popularity and forced him to do things that are good for the country in the long run. Western elites degenerated since the collapse of the USSR, and the process now appears irreversible. I disagree with one point only: that Grudinin is any better.
    I’d also like to remind you that I am not in the same boat as Saker. He never lived in Russia, whereas I did until 1991. I am not sure whether he has Russian citizenship, but I do.

    Well, I know your story and I agree with most of your points, but not with this one ;-)
    But I think your future certainly will be out of Russia. I’m not going to blame you, but it’s a fact. Quite a few of my schoolmates are now abroad, the best friends, matheticians, 20 years working in Mexico’s university. The are watchinng Russian tv And internet resources, will vote for Grudinin, but the are lost for country which is really bad.
    The are doing very well and it’s clear they couldn’t achive this here. It’s also.to blame Putin

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  175. Che Guava says:
    @prusmc
    Foftunately, the US is not like Russia. When the current Potus is removed, we have a stable of quality people ready to take the helm: Biden, Opra, Murphy, Kamala, Kaine, Booker, Schumer, Sanders, Sherod (wife beater) Brown as well as HRC to be a modern day Jennings Bryan.

    Bruce, sorry Caitlyn Jenner or Bradley, sorry Chelsea Manning for Prex? Then the U.S.A. will really be going somewhere, although where, I do not know.

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  176. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich
    There is a stream of personal insults here, that fails to adress any of the points I made. And implying that I may be a Jew is hillarious given my commenting history.

    It was you who insulted all Russians at once, so I’m not begging a pardon.

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    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    You sound more like a Sovok, than a Russian to me. Stupidity, agression, inability to take criticism are all markers of Sovok mentality.
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  177. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku

    One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000.
    ...
    The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.
     
    It's interesting to see like you, actually foreigners, despite having some Russian origin (you, Saker ...), and especially clean foreigners making categorical statements about Russia's life and policy.
    But ok, I'll add some "chaff" here to your unbeatable statements.

    To your list should be added support of 5th column, it's partly mentioned in your 1st point, but problem is much more complex and deeper. Not only get stolen money back and hang Chubais (which of course could be a big pleasure), but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It's his way of life, he's built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It's useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he'll try to keep system in it's state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it's a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it's not a mafunctioning of a system, it's a part of it.

    System absolutely indifferent to people it's provided to guard. It's even not thinking of long term its own survival - education and science, medicine, bith rate. It's being concentrated only on high priority clear tasks like selfdefence and self-sufficency. Even latter has began to be developed in great scale only after sanctions (Thanx Obama & Co).

    So statements of Saker and others about people hating communists and faked Grudinin are fake and total misunderstanding of Russia (which BTW is not only Moscow).
    Who people really hate are oligarchs and the West (mainly US). All the negative to communists left in 1990. It's true for most people not counting liberals (called hear as liberast for being in rhyme with pederast) and gays/LGBT. Both these minorities actulally mainly the same people, luckily.

    And Grudinin is not candidate of communist party - he is candidate from block of patriotic forces, which is much more and actually the ideas of that block being supported by many, I could have said even by majority, but unfortunately is's not the case yet. If this candidate had equal rights in MSM, if the voutes were counted correctly there was a real chance to win.
    But it's unlikely.

    And for stupid statement of Saker's of Grudinin being a desired candidates for ZUS - let's not forget that the West is being ruled by imbeciles. So even if they think so - let's them to continue.
    BTW we also were thinking that there is no nobody worse than Killary Clinton. Do we think like that now ? :-)


    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

    Anon from TN
    Just to explain something to you specifically. I left Russia (actually, USSR) in 1991 when it became crystal clear that the state totally abandoned biomedical research. So, I had a choice: remain in Russia and do something else that brings some money (I had a 6-year old daughter, and I believed that I have no right to keep her hungry), or remain in science, but move to the country where I will be paid for it enough, so nobody goes hungry. I chose science. Today I have more scientific papers and citations than pretty much any member of the Russian Academy of Sciences in my field. There is still no decent biomedical science in Russia. Purely bureaucratic projects like Skolkovo, an attempt to build a mountaintop without a mountain, are stillborn and do not inspire any confidence. If I return now, Russian science would gain nothing, but I would lose the ability to do what I am qualified for.
    The reason I am writing here is, like we used to say in the old times, “за державу обидно” (loose translation for non-Russian speakers “I feel hurt by the sad state of the country”). If you look at the papers in the best journals, there are lots of Russian (in broad sense) names on the author lists, but virtually none of them is now in Russia. Unlike masha gessens of the world, I am not selling lies, I am doing my professional job, which has nothing to do with politics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    I probably already answered. I understand you very well, I know many of such stories, one is about my friends both are Ph.Ds living with four childs in Mexico.

    They also doing very well in both scientific and money senses. And this is one of the most destroying achievements of liberal establishment, Putin's one. I mean the brains leak loosing bright and patriotic people.

    So I don't need to.look anywhere, I know that well and wish you all the best.

    By the way I guess when Americans will understand that it's for them to change their country. Not for us.
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  178. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Actually the fact that even Turkey (active enemy of the Entente, population 10x smaller than Russian Empire's, perhaps 50x less industrial output) did not become an Anglo-French protectorate would suggest to rational people that the likelihood of it happening to Russia was approximately zero, with or without the Bolsheviks.

    The Treaty of Sevres had reduced what remained of Turkey to a vassal state of the Western powers. It just did not become the law of the land thanks to Ataturk.
    It must be remembered that Western imperialism had in fact reduced the Chinese empire, with a population much larger than that of Russia, as well as transformed India into a colony. Western imperialism can not be underestimated, and it can always count on convenient allies, often sought among the worst segments of the population, in the countries it intends to subdue.
    Moreover, if there is someone who can not be accused of ‘rational’ is the supposed ‘paladin of the people’ Alexander Kerensky.

    Read More
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  179. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    Just to explain something to you specifically. I left Russia (actually, USSR) in 1991 when it became crystal clear that the state totally abandoned biomedical research. So, I had a choice: remain in Russia and do something else that brings some money (I had a 6-year old daughter, and I believed that I have no right to keep her hungry), or remain in science, but move to the country where I will be paid for it enough, so nobody goes hungry. I chose science. Today I have more scientific papers and citations than pretty much any member of the Russian Academy of Sciences in my field. There is still no decent biomedical science in Russia. Purely bureaucratic projects like Skolkovo, an attempt to build a mountaintop without a mountain, are stillborn and do not inspire any confidence. If I return now, Russian science would gain nothing, but I would lose the ability to do what I am qualified for.
    The reason I am writing here is, like we used to say in the old times, “за державу обидно” (loose translation for non-Russian speakers “I feel hurt by the sad state of the country”). If you look at the papers in the best journals, there are lots of Russian (in broad sense) names on the author lists, but virtually none of them is now in Russia. Unlike masha gessens of the world, I am not selling lies, I am doing my professional job, which has nothing to do with politics.

    I probably already answered. I understand you very well, I know many of such stories, one is about my friends both are Ph.Ds living with four childs in Mexico.

    They also doing very well in both scientific and money senses. And this is one of the most destroying achievements of liberal establishment, Putin’s one. I mean the brains leak loosing bright and patriotic people.

    So I don’t need to.look anywhere, I know that well and wish you all the best.

    By the way I guess when Americans will understand that it’s for them to change their country. Not for us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out the timing: I left long before Putin, even before Yeltsin. To be fair to Putin we have to remember that he got the country after two shameless traitors, Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Russia was in a lot worse shape than it is now. It 1998 Moscow had a dismal look of total neglect. In 2015 it looked like a proud capital of a mighty country.
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  180. @yurivku
    It was you who insulted all Russians at once, so I'm not begging a pardon.

    You sound more like a Sovok, than a Russian to me. Stupidity, agression, inability to take criticism are all markers of Sovok mentality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    Just f#ck off. Your home not in Russia, follow the clear signs.which I've supplied.
    Probably you didn't hear names of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, Gessen will be enough for you.
    , @polskijoe
    How come its usually strong Soviets supporters who dislike other Slavs
    more than average Russian does?

    Is it because of Jewish mentality involved with Bolsheviks and Commies?
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  181. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine but Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing. I wonder what I will find if I start digging debt and GDP structure. We have different views on what is better. Judas always have different views from not Judas.

    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.
    It’s really a thing which Slavs ( and Russians should be ahamed of )

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Exactly. I read their opinions often in blogs discussing Soviet past. As if deficit of some produce in stores justified destruction of own country, loss of status obtained through great sacrifice by their grandfather's and death of millions. I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988. So, what I noticed there was no anti Soviet bazaar back then neither in Dnepropetrovsk or Tashkent, but when I first arrived Moscow and visited Arbat there it was. People yelling at each other political discussions and when I was back to ussr from China in summer of 1989 it was far worse including what was happening in other parts of the country, parliament presidential election and total mess. For me looks like the country center capital the most prosperous part was where the rot took place even among common folk. The top was completely rotten by then. I read some opinion about moving capital. Well, Peter did it and it gave some momentum for 100 years. Then Bolsheviks moved again and again there was momentum. Odd.
    , @AP

    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.
     
    Let's look at a list of peoples whom yurivku considers to be "traitors to Slavs" (the ones who joined NATO or are trying to join); numbers include diasporas:

    Poles: 57 million
    Ukrainians: 48 million
    Czechs: 12 million
    Bulgarians: 10 million
    Croats: 8 million
    Slovaks: 7 million
    Bosniaks: 4 million
    Slovenes: 2.5 million
    Macedonians: 2 million
    Montenegrins: .5 million

    151 million Slavs who are "traitors to Slavs"

    That's more than the 130 million Russians. Maybe Russians are the traitors?
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  182. @Anatoly Karlin

    It is from the same universe as Karlin’s statement that when he attended high school he “predicted” Russia’s demographic improvement.
     
    No, the high school part is your invention.

    However, I did do it in 2008, when the consensus - including amongst most demographic professionals - was far more pessimistic.

    Three years ago, I predicted – going against 90%+ of “experts” – that the medium-term future of Russia’s demography is stagnation or small increase. In late 2009, I wrote that even under undemanding assumptions, “the population size will remain basically stagnant, going from 142mn to 143mn by 2023 before slowly slipping down to 138mn by 2050.” To give an example, the 2008 World Population Prospects of the UN Population Division predicted Russia’s population would fall to 132.3mn in 2025 and 116.1mn in 2050.
     
    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay, of course, but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite... well, let's just say I'm not the one on whom it's reflecting badly.

    No, the high school part is your invention.

    Same as your “predictions” which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, “predictions” not to mention a massive public discussion, from which you “extrapolated” your conclusions, which is to say–simply appropriated somebody’s forecasts and ideas on demography. Now, would you mind telling what age were you at 2008? As per demography “discussion” I did it once, I repeat it again–you were barely from middle-school when public debate on this issue started in earnest. Moreover, Maternity Capital program was initiated in 2006 which immediately generates not only warranted but irresistible question–what this:

    However, I did do it in 2008

    Has anything to do with 2006 and couple of years prior open discussion on Russia’s demography?

    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay

    That is revealing, isn’t it?

    but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite… well, let’s just say I’m not the one on whom it’s reflecting badly.

    Karlin, you are throwing a lot of invectives from a glass house of your well-documented flops in just about anything you are trying to predict or write about Russia and world at large. If you want me to demonstrate that, we may get busy with that, thankfully your ventures into the fields you have no idea are well documented here. I already reminded you about your writings on military issues, you geopolitical “analysis” is altogether a manifestation of militant ignorance and these are just a few things.

    including amongst most demographic professionals

    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West’s “professionals”, not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called “academe”. This almost brought the world to the brink of a world war III and already translated into the new and much more dangerous Cold War 2.0. You, obviously, being a product of US “humanities” madras, still do not understand that this whole system can not find its own ass in a brightly lit room with own two hands, not to speak–yet, you continue to parade your ignorance writing on subject you have no clue about. I will repeat again–you, Masha Gessen, Julia Ioffe, basically whole neo-con cabal are the berries of the same field. As I stated–you should find employment at Echo Matsy or any rag with ties to, whoever you “heroes” are–Sobchak, Prosvirnin, Navalny or whatever collection of freaks who will pay you for you pseudo-intellectual rubbish. You will be called out, though, as it is being done here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Same as your “predictions” which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, “predictions” not to mention a massive public discussion
     
    And here is Reality.

    Tired of plonking down on that puddle over and over again?

    ... which is to say–simply appropriated somebody’s forecasts and ideas on demography.
     
    Whose?

    He'd sure be glad to know I plagiarized all this from him, whoever he is: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/faces-of-the-future/

    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West’s “professionals”, not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called “academe”.
     
    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.
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  183. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @yurivku
    I probably already answered. I understand you very well, I know many of such stories, one is about my friends both are Ph.Ds living with four childs in Mexico.

    They also doing very well in both scientific and money senses. And this is one of the most destroying achievements of liberal establishment, Putin's one. I mean the brains leak loosing bright and patriotic people.

    So I don't need to.look anywhere, I know that well and wish you all the best.

    By the way I guess when Americans will understand that it's for them to change their country. Not for us.

    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out the timing: I left long before Putin, even before Yeltsin. To be fair to Putin we have to remember that he got the country after two shameless traitors, Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Russia was in a lot worse shape than it is now. It 1998 Moscow had a dismal look of total neglect. In 2015 it looked like a proud capital of a mighty country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    Look, why we again got to this point? I said many times, he saved country, but it was not for free, country payed and still does for that.
    I think his time is over. BTW it's safe time to go - no attempts to punish him will be attempted, but his future if again elected is vague.
    Now the everything in Moscow, that time I use phone being to lazy.to.switch on desktop having alot of typos as a result. Sorry
    , @yurivku
    One more thing -'you said you gonna vote for Putin in US? I think it's of no sence whoever you'll vote for , they will count your voice for Putin. So may be long drive is not necessary ;-)
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  184. @Dmitry

    To quote Lord Kelvin, the thermodynamist “It is better to proceed from error than uncertainty”. Imperfect statistics are better than no statistics. A bus ride through the city can show you new office blocks, shopping malls, travel agencies and farm machinery dealers to add live to the statistics but no one has the time to appreciate a whole country. Personally, I think that if you sit in one place and talk to the passers by you will find out more than by trying to visit every city but that is another discussion.

     

    The charts and 'statistics' are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers' ranting in (I admit) impressive English. It doesn't mean that there are anything authoritative to conclusions drawn from these 'statistics'. It is still interesting to see them and he does a service to the internet by posting them here. As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions. If he runs as a politician, I would not vote for him or understand what he actually thinks. But the guy has a valuable talent to generate the interesting discussion and comments, and which is probably the more important thing in blogging.

    As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions.

    You can read some of those facepalm “analyses” here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    It is one of many, it’s just that this one was so outlandish that it forced me to first start a series of posts in my blog on this issue and eventually people convinced me to write a book–should be out in September (if lucky–in August).

    The charts and ‘statistics’ are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers’ ranting in (I admit) impressive English.

    Not in Karlin’s “settings”, since he has a very peculiar way of “handling” information, which doesn’t suite him–such as arguing (if you have time–you can find it) with data and war correlates of Russia’s Imperial General Staff, since, obviously, those numbers do not support his “views”.

    If he runs as a politician

    I would pay to see that in Russia. LOL. He has, however, a good shot at it in the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    You can read some of those facepalm “analyses” here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments
     
    That's where twinkie, more of an expert than you, demolished you during your discussion with him.
    , @Dmitry

    You can read some of those facepalm “analyses” here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    It is one of many, it’s just that this one was so outlandish that it forced me to first start a series of posts in my blog on this issue and eventually people convinced me to write a book–should be out in September (if lucky–in August).

    Not in Karlin’s “settings”, since he has a very peculiar way of “handling” information, which doesn’t suite him–such as arguing (if you have time–you can find it) with data and war correlates of Russia’s Imperial General Staff, since, obviously, those numbers do not support his “views”.
     

    Sure, but he is not building bridge, or calculating artillery trajectories. As a blogger - if he posts the chart from the Economist, this chart can be unreliable and the conclusion he draws from it might be as eccentric. But reality is that it is posted as something to discuss, and with a total free speech in the comments section (my post has never been deleted), which is attracting people with every view to say whether they disagree.

    Compare Anatoly Karlin to the similar topic writers like Julia Ioffe. She has no comments section, and no engagement (writing back) with anyone she disagrees. Whereas in Karlin, we have debate between all different views, and he engages with readers in open minded way. So in such a blog, the more provocative views or even making mistakes are fine, as anyone is free to disagree and it is published on the comments. I will say he is good at blogging and engagement, even if I don't agree with most (even if I disagreed with it all).

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  185. Art Deco says:

    This almost brought the world to the brink of a world war III and already translated into the new and much more dangerous Cold War 2.0. Y

    Other people in the dayroom want to use the computer. And you’re not finished with that trivet you were making in art therapy.

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  186. @yurivku
    trying to use [img] html tag
    " "


    I saw a picture on preview, but after publishing it's disappered ! So the question still exists.
    I used construct like:
    [img src="https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/909751/18521500.2c/0_11dbf0_b50295b7_orig" alt="an image to be embedded"]
    with square brackets changed for angle brackets.

    I used construct like:

    I know it is OT and hope Saker forgives us for this small deviation but let me try. F.e. I go to Yahoo images of Natalie Wood and open her image, right click and copy image location and then directly paste into the post.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    I tried to embed pictures from different sources and it seems like blog refuses to show pictures from Russian sites. When I used Gessen image from Unz it worked ;-)
    Thank you
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  187. peterAUS says:
    @yurivku

    One is the profusion of oligarchs who stole their riches from the state and hid the loot offshore. He does not seem inclined to tackle them, likely honoring the deal he made in 2000.
    ...
    The other weakness is that it remains a one-man show, i.e., the absence of credible state institutions and an obvious successor. The rest is chaff.
     
    It's interesting to see like you, actually foreigners, despite having some Russian origin (you, Saker ...), and especially clean foreigners making categorical statements about Russia's life and policy.
    But ok, I'll add some "chaff" here to your unbeatable statements.

    To your list should be added support of 5th column, it's partly mentioned in your 1st point, but problem is much more complex and deeper. Not only get stolen money back and hang Chubais (which of course could be a big pleasure), but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It's his way of life, he's built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It's useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he'll try to keep system in it's state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it's a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it's not a mafunctioning of a system, it's a part of it.

    System absolutely indifferent to people it's provided to guard. It's even not thinking of long term its own survival - education and science, medicine, bith rate. It's being concentrated only on high priority clear tasks like selfdefence and self-sufficency. Even latter has began to be developed in great scale only after sanctions (Thanx Obama & Co).

    So statements of Saker and others about people hating communists and faked Grudinin are fake and total misunderstanding of Russia (which BTW is not only Moscow).
    Who people really hate are oligarchs and the West (mainly US). All the negative to communists left in 1990. It's true for most people not counting liberals (called hear as liberast for being in rhyme with pederast) and gays/LGBT. Both these minorities actulally mainly the same people, luckily.

    And Grudinin is not candidate of communist party - he is candidate from block of patriotic forces, which is much more and actually the ideas of that block being supported by many, I could have said even by majority, but unfortunately is's not the case yet. If this candidate had equal rights in MSM, if the voutes were counted correctly there was a real chance to win.
    But it's unlikely.

    And for stupid statement of Saker's of Grudinin being a desired candidates for ZUS - let's not forget that the West is being ruled by imbeciles. So even if they think so - let's them to continue.
    BTW we also were thinking that there is no nobody worse than Killary Clinton. Do we think like that now ? :-)


    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

    ..but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It’s his way of life, he’s built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It’s useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he’ll try to keep system in it’s state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it’s a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it’s not a mafunctioning of a system, it’s a part of it.

    with

    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.

    Spot on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    What you tried to say? Did not get it. Yes there are demands for changes and moreover from opposite sides of political spectrum. And there is many of those who are trying to keep status quo.
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  188. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out the timing: I left long before Putin, even before Yeltsin. To be fair to Putin we have to remember that he got the country after two shameless traitors, Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Russia was in a lot worse shape than it is now. It 1998 Moscow had a dismal look of total neglect. In 2015 it looked like a proud capital of a mighty country.

    Look, why we again got to this point? I said many times, he saved country, but it was not for free, country payed and still does for that.
    I think his time is over. BTW it’s safe time to go – no attempts to punish him will be attempted, but his future if again elected is vague.
    Now the everything in Moscow, that time I use phone being to lazy.to.switch on desktop having alot of typos as a result. Sorry

    Read More
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  189. yurivku says:
    @Felix Keverich
    You sound more like a Sovok, than a Russian to me. Stupidity, agression, inability to take criticism are all markers of Sovok mentality.

    Just f#ck off. Your home not in Russia, follow the clear signs.which I’ve supplied.
    Probably you didn’t hear names of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, Gessen will be enough for you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    He lives there. You fled. And you try to teach about Russians.
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  190. @Andrei Martyanov

    No, the high school part is your invention.
     
    Same as your "predictions" which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, "predictions" not to mention a massive public discussion, from which you "extrapolated" your conclusions, which is to say--simply appropriated somebody's forecasts and ideas on demography. Now, would you mind telling what age were you at 2008? As per demography "discussion" I did it once, I repeat it again--you were barely from middle-school when public debate on this issue started in earnest. Moreover, Maternity Capital program was initiated in 2006 which immediately generates not only warranted but irresistible question--what this:

    However, I did do it in 2008
     
    Has anything to do with 2006 and couple of years prior open discussion on Russia's demography?


    Ignorance on the finer details of debates ten years ago is perfectly okay
     
    That is revealing, isn't it?

    but proudly brandishing that ignorance out of a combination of arrogance and spite… well, let’s just say I’m not the one on whom it’s reflecting badly.
     
    Karlin, you are throwing a lot of invectives from a glass house of your well-documented flops in just about anything you are trying to predict or write about Russia and world at large. If you want me to demonstrate that, we may get busy with that, thankfully your ventures into the fields you have no idea are well documented here. I already reminded you about your writings on military issues, you geopolitical "analysis" is altogether a manifestation of militant ignorance and these are just a few things.

    including amongst most demographic professionals
     
    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West's "professionals", not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called "academe". This almost brought the world to the brink of a world war III and already translated into the new and much more dangerous Cold War 2.0. You, obviously, being a product of US "humanities" madras, still do not understand that this whole system can not find its own ass in a brightly lit room with own two hands, not to speak--yet, you continue to parade your ignorance writing on subject you have no clue about. I will repeat again--you, Masha Gessen, Julia Ioffe, basically whole neo-con cabal are the berries of the same field. As I stated--you should find employment at Echo Matsy or any rag with ties to, whoever you "heroes" are--Sobchak, Prosvirnin, Navalny or whatever collection of freaks who will pay you for you pseudo-intellectual rubbish. You will be called out, though, as it is being done here.

    Same as your “predictions” which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, “predictions” not to mention a massive public discussion

    And here is Reality.

    Tired of plonking down on that puddle over and over again?

    … which is to say–simply appropriated somebody’s forecasts and ideas on demography.

    Whose?

    He’d sure be glad to know I plagiarized all this from him, whoever he is: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/faces-of-the-future/

    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West’s “professionals”, not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called “academe”.

    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.
     
    Yes, including being non-permanent members of Russia Security Council, Commanding the only Carrier Battle Group of Russian Navy among many other interesting things, just to give you a hint, wink-wink. You, however, should concentrate on what you are qualified to do--write reviews for latest gadgets, games etc. As per "mysteries of universe", unlike you I never express my opinions on issues of which I have no a good understanding, let alone grasp--I think this is just the matter of culture. If I need to get to the "mysteries of universe" I usually read Dr. Michio Kaku or Brian Greene and do not try to express my opinions of quantum mechanics. I do, however, resort the right on my part to express my opinions, and even pass judgements, on the issues which are directly related to my former professional and academic background, as you say from the second rate Soviet military academy. Even if it is a third-rate, it is still on several orders of magnitude more knowledge in the field than you ever will have, after all--even in the third rate military academies they taught Theory of Operations, fundamentals of geopolitics and other things. ;-)
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  191. yurivku says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I used construct like:
     
    I know it is OT and hope Saker forgives us for this small deviation but let me try. F.e. I go to Yahoo images of Natalie Wood and open her image, right click and copy image location and then directly paste into the post.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I7lUJeMcKns/Thp9cXJrMuI/AAAAAAAAAEg/LNjuwvbiE5Q/s1600/Natalie%2BWood-photo-wallpaper-16.jpg

    I tried to embed pictures from different sources and it seems like blog refuses to show pictures from Russian sites. When I used Gessen image from Unz it worked ;-)
    Thank you

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    I tried to embed pictures from different sources and it seems like blog refuses to show pictures from Russian sites. When I used Gessen image from Unz it worked ;-)
    Thank you
     
    Actually, the image-embedding system I built is *extremely* simple and shouldn't be difficult to use.

    All you need to do is provide a single URL that ends in an image-indicator-suffix such as png, jpg, jpeg, gif, or ico and make sure the URL is surrounded by whitespace or line-separators. The website then automatically embeds the URL within an image-tag, that loads it from its external server.

    But you need to provide the actual *image* URL, rather than just some general webpage URL that just contains that image.
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  192. yurivku says:
    @peterAUS

    ..but change the ideology which reproduces and supports these oligarchs. It’s his way of life, he’s built a system where capitalism, oligarchs and manual management are essential parts and not errors. It’s useless to beleive that Putin will change something in this system in next 6 years. He had enough time for that, he’ll try to keep system in it’s state making insignificant changes just to keep that system alive.

    Corruption is a necessary part of this system, it’s a lubricant. Putin tries to keep it on some controllable level, but unsuccessfully, because it’s not a mafunctioning of a system, it’s a part of it.
     

    with

    So to change something we should change the basics of a system which Putin has built, but this means to change Putin himself.
     
    Spot on.

    What you tried to say? Did not get it. Yes there are demands for changes and moreover from opposite sides of political spectrum. And there is many of those who are trying to keep status quo.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    What you tried to say? Did not get it.
     
    with

    Just f#ck off.Your home not in Russia, follow the clear signs.which I’ve supplied.
     
    just feels.....not good.
    Anyway....

    Where you are not correct is

    ....no attempts to punish him will be attempted,...

     

    Putin (and people around him) would be insane if believed that.
    Of course that the new clique would blame the previous one for all problems of society. And, almost definitely bring them to...ahm..."justice" etc. (kangaroo courts and such).
    In fact, should Putin and his team lose power they just know they'll be brought up to some "International Court of Justice" and ....well, we know how it works.
    That's why he/they will never give power easily. And I don't blame them. Whatever it takes to stay there will be taken. And rightfully so.

    And, curious: what makes you believe that the next team would be better, corruption etc. wise?
    Czars->Communists->post Communists....teams/regimes....even systems change....but that element, apparently, stays and does it well.
    Why would you expect any difference should Putin and his team get replaced by, say, that "Gru" guy and his team?
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  193. yurivku says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out the timing: I left long before Putin, even before Yeltsin. To be fair to Putin we have to remember that he got the country after two shameless traitors, Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Russia was in a lot worse shape than it is now. It 1998 Moscow had a dismal look of total neglect. In 2015 it looked like a proud capital of a mighty country.

    One more thing -’you said you gonna vote for Putin in US? I think it’s of no sence whoever you’ll vote for , they will count your voice for Putin. So may be long drive is not necessary ;-)

    Read More
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  194. Ron Unz says:
    @yurivku
    I tried to embed pictures from different sources and it seems like blog refuses to show pictures from Russian sites. When I used Gessen image from Unz it worked ;-)
    Thank you

    I tried to embed pictures from different sources and it seems like blog refuses to show pictures from Russian sites. When I used Gessen image from Unz it worked ;-)
    Thank you

    Actually, the image-embedding system I built is *extremely* simple and shouldn’t be difficult to use.

    All you need to do is provide a single URL that ends in an image-indicator-suffix such as png, jpg, jpeg, gif, or ico and make sure the URL is surrounded by whitespace or line-separators. The website then automatically embeds the URL within an image-tag, that loads it from its external server.

    But you need to provide the actual *image* URL, rather than just some general webpage URL that just contains that image.

    Read More
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  195. yurivku says:

    Thank you Ron!
    Now it’s clear I did put correct link to an image residin on Yandex.picture resource, but this resource renames files skipping the jpg extension.
    Will try with different hosting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Thank you Ron!
     
    You should also thank me for giving you (and many here) the pleasure to observe a stunning timeless beauty of Natalie Wood (Natalya Nikolaevna Zacharchenko), LOL. I kid, I kid. :-))
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  196. @Anatoly Karlin

    Same as your “predictions” which ignored projections which gave birth to Maternity Capital program, which you consistently try to avoid mentioning, since discussion of this program produced a whirlwind of forecasts, “predictions” not to mention a massive public discussion
     
    And here is Reality.

    Tired of plonking down on that puddle over and over again?

    ... which is to say–simply appropriated somebody’s forecasts and ideas on demography.
     
    Whose?

    He'd sure be glad to know I plagiarized all this from him, whoever he is: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/faces-of-the-future/

    Most of what is written about Russia in the combined West, including West’s “professionals”, not to mention such dubious data handlers as in UN is, basically, BS. Be it economy, military, science, history etc. Basically every single aspect of Russia is completely obscured or obfuscated by Western so called “academe”.
     
    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.

    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.

    Yes, including being non-permanent members of Russia Security Council, Commanding the only Carrier Battle Group of Russian Navy among many other interesting things, just to give you a hint, wink-wink. You, however, should concentrate on what you are qualified to do–write reviews for latest gadgets, games etc. As per “mysteries of universe”, unlike you I never express my opinions on issues of which I have no a good understanding, let alone grasp–I think this is just the matter of culture. If I need to get to the “mysteries of universe” I usually read Dr. Michio Kaku or Brian Greene and do not try to express my opinions of quantum mechanics. I do, however, resort the right on my part to express my opinions, and even pass judgements, on the issues which are directly related to my former professional and academic background, as you say from the second rate Soviet military academy. Even if it is a third-rate, it is still on several orders of magnitude more knowledge in the field than you ever will have, after all–even in the third rate military academies they taught Theory of Operations, fundamentals of geopolitics and other things. ;-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    "Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe."

    Yes, including being non-permanent members of Russia Security Council, Commanding the only Carrier Battle Group of Russian Navy among many other interesting things,
     
    And Donald McHenry, former US ambassador to the UN, graduated from Southern Illinois University.

    Which doesn't make it more than a second rate university (I'm being generous).

    You were not a non-permanent member of Russia Security Council. Per your linkedin, you were a mid-level or junior naval officer who graduated from a second rate naval academy, and fled west almost 30 years ago and who since that time has worked as a tutor and who now works in graphics design.

    You provide an interesting and valuable perspective that is unique here (how fortunate unz.com has been, to collect an actual Soviet military officer and to provide a forum for his POV), and you are certainly not dumb, but your narcissism is kinda funny because it has little basis. In your posts you have claimed that people educated in the West are clueless, young urban Russians are clueless, people with backgrounds in humanities are clueless, etc. That leaves you - a graduate from a second-tier naval academy with a mediocre career - as having a relative monopoly on expertise. Suure.
    , @Kiza
    Andrei, everything you wrote about Karlin can be summarised by comparing him with Elliot Higgins of Bellingcat, who used to be a lingerie salesman before discovering data analysis. I am not saying that Karlin had any such profession before - personally I estimate a man based on his sane words and deeds, not based on resume/CV/LinkedIn. The way this character Karlin draws conclusions from data which is not supportive belongs to the products of US, definitely not the more rigorous European, education. Please note that Elliot Higgins never had any British data analysys related education, which never bothered his supporters.

    The strange thing for me is also that some of Karlin supporters here, such as Felix, suffer from exactly the same malady - the way these people torture logic of dedication, inference, reasoning and resolution truly belongs to gutter and not a serious debate. But it is consistent with the rulebook of trolls: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Clear_Thinking/Informal_Fallacies/Tricks/tricks.html

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  197. @yurivku
    Thank you Ron!
    Now it's clear I did put correct link to an image residin on Yandex.picture resource, but this resource renames files skipping the jpg extension.
    Will try with different hosting.

    Thank you Ron!

    You should also thank me for giving you (and many here) the pleasure to observe a stunning timeless beauty of Natalie Wood (Natalya Nikolaevna Zacharchenko), LOL. I kid, I kid. :-))

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku
    Ok, thank you. So let me present to you photo of the islands Marietas ;-)

    http://club.foto.ru/gallery/images/photo/2017/09/20/2529357.jpg

    you can see it on where the boat points.

    here they are on map:

    http://www.fotoload.ru/f/0218/1519643365/a94f248278.jpg

    I dived there last year when visited my friend in Mexico, who left Russia in 1995 and working in Mexican university. So it's not off-topic ;-).

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  198. @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out that the apologist of Poland “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before, and if there were, did Poles consider that period successful.

    Lol. They will consider it successful anyway. Just for the honor of being part of the West even if sleeping near lavatory.

    Read More
    • LOL: yurivku
    • Replies: @yurivku
    Exactly. They even like the smell of freedom out of there. And many of them got the right to clean it up.
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  199. peterAUS says:
    @yurivku
    What you tried to say? Did not get it. Yes there are demands for changes and moreover from opposite sides of political spectrum. And there is many of those who are trying to keep status quo.

    What you tried to say? Did not get it.

    with

    Just f#ck off.Your home not in Russia, follow the clear signs.which I’ve supplied.

    just feels…..not good.
    Anyway….

    Where you are not correct is

    ….no attempts to punish him will be attempted,…

    Putin (and people around him) would be insane if believed that.
    Of course that the new clique would blame the previous one for all problems of society. And, almost definitely bring them to…ahm…”justice” etc. (kangaroo courts and such).
    In fact, should Putin and his team lose power they just know they’ll be brought up to some “International Court of Justice” and ….well, we know how it works.
    That’s why he/they will never give power easily. And I don’t blame them. Whatever it takes to stay there will be taken. And rightfully so.

    And, curious: what makes you believe that the next team would be better, corruption etc. wise?
    Czars->Communists->post Communists….teams/regimes….even systems change….but that element, apparently, stays and does it well.
    Why would you expect any difference should Putin and his team get replaced by, say, that “Gru” guy and his team?

    Read More
    • Replies: @yurivku

    just feels…..not good.
    Anyway….

     

    Up to you. Enemy detected. I'm not gonna be polite with people who are insulting me and my country.
    I wish I could express my feelings the other more physical way.
    If for Uks they are not deserved to be answered, this moron pretends to be Russian.
    I'm sure he is Jew, Uk or Polish. BTW his name proves that and time of his writings tells that he's probably resides accross Atlantics.

    Why would you expect any difference should Putin and his team get replaced by, say, that “Gru” guy and his team?
     
    Just according my understanding of situation. Of course I can be mistaken. What are your reasons when you are making some important decisions?
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  200. @yurivku
    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.
    It's really a thing which Slavs ( and Russians should be ahamed of )

    Exactly. I read their opinions often in blogs discussing Soviet past. As if deficit of some produce in stores justified destruction of own country, loss of status obtained through great sacrifice by their grandfather’s and death of millions. I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988. So, what I noticed there was no anti Soviet bazaar back then neither in Dnepropetrovsk or Tashkent, but when I first arrived Moscow and visited Arbat there it was. People yelling at each other political discussions and when I was back to ussr from China in summer of 1989 it was far worse including what was happening in other parts of the country, parliament presidential election and total mess. For me looks like the country center capital the most prosperous part was where the rot took place even among common folk. The top was completely rotten by then. I read some opinion about moving capital. Well, Peter did it and it gave some momentum for 100 years. Then Bolsheviks moved again and again there was momentum. Odd.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988.
     
    So, guy who never lived in Russia, and left Soviet space almost 30 years ago, thinks he knows something about Russia.
    , @yurivku

    Exactly. I read their opinions often in blogs discussing Soviet past. As if deficit of some produce in stores justified destruction of own country, loss of status obtained through great sacrifice by their grandfather’s and death of millions.
     
    Bastards. You know probably a proverb:
    1 khokhol (ukranian) is a traitor
    2 khokhols is a guerrilla detachment
    3 khokhols is guerrilla detachment with a traitor

    And those descendants of Mazepa, Petliura and Bandera are proving that.

    The top was completely rotten by then.
     
    Top is still rotten with few exceptions. The fish getting rotten from the head.

    As for Uks it's disgusting and sad look, but they can't beleive that we don't need them. They finally tore the umbilical cord and this will never change. The goal is to save Russians in UA who remember who they are (Donbass and partly SouthEast), other could feel themselves free.
    AP jumping trying to bite and insult, but I see small vicious dog which even not deserves to be kicked.
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  201. polskijoe says:
    @yurivku

    lol… we Slavics and maybe others all have this characteristic.
     
    BTW we, Slavs, are different. We, for example, did free your country from NAZY, but you now are destroying all monuments created for the memory of that.
    Poland is main and most aggressive US ass-kisser on the East of Europe so of course we see all that and do our conclusions.

    Yes, most of so called "bratushkas" like Bulgaria, Chekoslovakia, Poland, MonteNegro ... did cooperated with Nazy and/or now are doing that with NATO, so don't address our Slavic origins, we are different and real brothers are those who wouldn't betray and that, pity, certainly are not you. The only one left we can respect (with some limitations) is Serbia.
    Getting back to words of Alexander III - "Russia has only two allies - its army and navy", this is still true.

    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

    You are assuming all Poles are the same. Polish government antiRussian stance is stupid for sure,
    but Poland is not some aggressive beast. The army is tiny. We dont invade countries.

    You seem to have some paranoia that Poles are out to get you. And that Poles were allies of Nazis?
    More Russians fought with Nazis, than Poles did. How do you answer that?

    Poland never officially allied with Nazis and we fought them from 39-45.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    You have a point here. In WWII there were Lithuanian, Latvian, Estonian, and Ukrainian Waffen SS divisions, but no Polish ones. However, Poles did serve Hitler individually, many as volunteers (like Tusk’s grandfather). What’s more, Hitler’s rabid anti-Semitism was in line with the worldview of many Poles (maybe just a bit less so than with the views of Balts and Ukrainians). At least, there are extremely uncomplimentary tales about the behavior of Poles in German-occupied Warsaw during the uprising in Jewish ghetto in 1943.
    , @yurivku

    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

     

    Sure, Ukranians also Slavs. And some Slavs were with Hitler. So what?

    You are assuming all Poles are the same. Polish government antiRussian stance is stupid for sure,
    but Poland is not some aggressive beast.
     
    Not I'm not, but a drop of honey in barell of shit won't change much. I see the facts and you did everything to be hated. It's not us to blame.

    The army is tiny. We dont invade countries.

     

    Just because you are too weak, in history you did always when you could.

    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

     

    No and it was not change the fact that Russian and Polish have almost nothing in common not to count history and language. The latter you switched to latin despite it's looks ugly just to break the link with us. Ok, you did break, why do you a crying now? Go your way and wait when some Iskander will come to your US antimissile base. It was your choice get the consequences with dignity.
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  202. polskijoe says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    How are poles and Ukraine are doing after you are out of the basement? Roaming kanalizaciya ? Populations are in free fall onviously outcome of accepting 30 srebrennikov .Btw, I see you are a good friend of Poles, maybe you should give back Lviv and surroundings and Poland should returns those German lands gifted by so bad Russia back to Germany good friend of all Slavs.

    Populations are in free fall?
    This is happening all Slavic countries. Check the birthrates vs death rates. Low Fertility rates.

    Poland and Ukraine are different. Generally speaking Poland gained after leaving USSR influence.
    Ukraine went the opposite direction.

    During Commie times Poland was not doing well in many areas. Only military and some industry.
    Now its more peaceful.

    Dont take this as antiRussian, because I really am not.

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  203. polskijoe says:
    @Felix Keverich
    You sound more like a Sovok, than a Russian to me. Stupidity, agression, inability to take criticism are all markers of Sovok mentality.

    How come its usually strong Soviets supporters who dislike other Slavs
    more than average Russian does?

    Is it because of Jewish mentality involved with Bolsheviks and Commies?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. There are many problems with the Russian people, but excessive hatred of Poland isn't one of them. lol As a matter of fact the overwhelming sentiment that Sovok types feel towards people of Eastern Europe is not hate, but betrayal.
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  204. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine but Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing. I wonder what I will find if I start digging debt and GDP structure. We have different views on what is better. Judas always have different views from not Judas.

    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine

    As I said, Ukraine’s population freefall is due to eastern Sovoks failing to reproduce. There has been no freefall in the western parts of the country.

    Since you are a proud Sovok yourself, you are essentially just making fun of your own people.

    For example, Donetsk oblast had 5.3 million people in 1991, and 4.3 million people in 2013 (before the war). Loss of 1 milli0n or almost 20% of Sovoks.

    Lviv oblast had a little under 2.8 million people in 1991, 2.5 million in 2013. About 100,000 of these missing were Russians and Jews who left Lviv after independence. So loss of 200,000 or 7%.

    Not good, but, at least, better than in Russia. There were about 120 million ethnic Russians in Russia in 1989, 111 million in 2010 – loss of 9%. And it is probably lower now.

    Transcarpathia oblast has had a population increase since 1989. 1.252 million in 1989, 1.256 million in 2014.

    Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing

    Poland’s manufacturing collapsed in late 80s and had improved significantly since then. For example Poland was making about 400,000 automobiles per year in the early 1980s, almost 700,000 in 2016.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Let me educate you. Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades. Also, the eastern part ny all means was Russia given to Ukraine just like crimea. Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city. I am not so sure about how western Ukraine was doing demographically. But they did spoil the life of all Ukraine and contaminated everything. Tell about tail waging the dog.
    , @RadicalCenter
    “Our nation is dying out slower than your nation.”

    Not an encouraging boast.

    I pray for all Slavs, and all Europeans, to have many more children.
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  205. AP says:
    @yurivku
    Just f#ck off. Your home not in Russia, follow the clear signs.which I've supplied.
    Probably you didn't hear names of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, Gessen will be enough for you.

    He lives there. You fled. And you try to teach about Russians.

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  206. AP says:
    @yurivku
    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.
    It's really a thing which Slavs ( and Russians should be ahamed of )

    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.

    Let’s look at a list of peoples whom yurivku considers to be “traitors to Slavs” (the ones who joined NATO or are trying to join); numbers include diasporas:

    Poles: 57 million
    Ukrainians: 48 million
    Czechs: 12 million
    Bulgarians: 10 million
    Croats: 8 million
    Slovaks: 7 million
    Bosniaks: 4 million
    Slovenes: 2.5 million
    Macedonians: 2 million
    Montenegrins: .5 million

    151 million Slavs who are “traitors to Slavs”

    That’s more than the 130 million Russians. Maybe Russians are the traitors?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    To the best of my knowledge, there are just under 38 million Poles, not 57 million. Claimed number of Ukrainians is even more fantastic. There were 52 million people living in Ukrainian SSR in 1991. Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine. Of course, there are 5-7 million Ukrainian gastarbeiters in several countries (mostly in Russia and Poland), so the number of citizens is probably 27-31 million, but that’s nowhere near 48 million you claimed. No wonder that Ukrainian authorities are afraid to conduct a census for many years – they know that the results would be shocking. Not to mention that before counting Transcarpathia as Ukraine you should talk to the residents there, especially Rusyns and those with Hungarian and Romanian passports. If I were you, I’d also ask how many millions of residents of Galichina and Volhynia got Polish Card (Karta Polaka), and how this reflects their “patriotism” and pride in the achievements of so-called “revolution of dignity”.
    Don’t have time to check the rest of your numbers. But these clear inaccuracies make them equally suspicious.
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  207. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Exactly. I read their opinions often in blogs discussing Soviet past. As if deficit of some produce in stores justified destruction of own country, loss of status obtained through great sacrifice by their grandfather's and death of millions. I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988. So, what I noticed there was no anti Soviet bazaar back then neither in Dnepropetrovsk or Tashkent, but when I first arrived Moscow and visited Arbat there it was. People yelling at each other political discussions and when I was back to ussr from China in summer of 1989 it was far worse including what was happening in other parts of the country, parliament presidential election and total mess. For me looks like the country center capital the most prosperous part was where the rot took place even among common folk. The top was completely rotten by then. I read some opinion about moving capital. Well, Peter did it and it gave some momentum for 100 years. Then Bolsheviks moved again and again there was momentum. Odd.

    I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988.

    So, guy who never lived in Russia, and left Soviet space almost 30 years ago, thinks he knows something about Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    As I said Dnepropetrovsk was Russian city at the time and in Tashkent I lived in military camp /voennyj gorodok where all but 2 families were Russian from different parts of Russia. We all studied in Russian schools , were imbued with same Russian history and culture and almost all of my friends were Russians. When I talk to relatives we actually share most of views and it is natural. I hear now Dnepropetrovsk was thoroughly ukranazied.
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  208. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    I would like to point out that the apologist of Poland “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before, and if there were, did Poles consider that period successful.

    “AP” posted data suggesting ZERO population growth in “successful” Poland in 27 years from 1989 to 2016. I wonder whether there ever were 27 years of zero growth in Polish history before

    True of most of Europe when one doesn’t include non-European migrants. So?

    Yurivku claimed population “freefall.” There has been none.

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  209. AP says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.
     
    Yes, including being non-permanent members of Russia Security Council, Commanding the only Carrier Battle Group of Russian Navy among many other interesting things, just to give you a hint, wink-wink. You, however, should concentrate on what you are qualified to do--write reviews for latest gadgets, games etc. As per "mysteries of universe", unlike you I never express my opinions on issues of which I have no a good understanding, let alone grasp--I think this is just the matter of culture. If I need to get to the "mysteries of universe" I usually read Dr. Michio Kaku or Brian Greene and do not try to express my opinions of quantum mechanics. I do, however, resort the right on my part to express my opinions, and even pass judgements, on the issues which are directly related to my former professional and academic background, as you say from the second rate Soviet military academy. Even if it is a third-rate, it is still on several orders of magnitude more knowledge in the field than you ever will have, after all--even in the third rate military academies they taught Theory of Operations, fundamentals of geopolitics and other things. ;-)

    “Only graduates of second-rate Soviet military academies are intellectually equipped to tackle the mysteries of the universe.”

    Yes, including being non-permanent members of Russia Security Council, Commanding the only Carrier Battle Group of Russian Navy among many other interesting things,

    And Donald McHenry, former US ambassador to the UN, graduated from Southern Illinois University.

    Which doesn’t make it more than a second rate university (I’m being generous).

    You were not a non-permanent member of Russia Security Council. Per your linkedin, you were a mid-level or junior naval officer who graduated from a second rate naval academy, and fled west almost 30 years ago and who since that time has worked as a tutor and who now works in graphics design.

    You provide an interesting and valuable perspective that is unique here (how fortunate unz.com has been, to collect an actual Soviet military officer and to provide a forum for his POV), and you are certainly not dumb, but your narcissism is kinda funny because it has little basis. In your posts you have claimed that people educated in the West are clueless, young urban Russians are clueless, people with backgrounds in humanities are clueless, etc. That leaves you – a graduate from a second-tier naval academy with a mediocre career – as having a relative monopoly on expertise. Suure.

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    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What does exactly mean 'fleeing from the army/navy', in active service one may surmise?
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  210. AP says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    As a blogger, Anatoly Karlin has all kinds of eccentric and strange conclusions.
     
    You can read some of those facepalm "analyses" here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    It is one of many, it's just that this one was so outlandish that it forced me to first start a series of posts in my blog on this issue and eventually people convinced me to write a book--should be out in September (if lucky--in August).


    The charts and ‘statistics’ are usually interesting in all kinds of ways, and they raise the level of the conversation above the elderly grandfathers’ ranting in (I admit) impressive English.
     
    Not in Karlin's "settings", since he has a very peculiar way of "handling" information, which doesn't suite him--such as arguing (if you have time--you can find it) with data and war correlates of Russia's Imperial General Staff, since, obviously, those numbers do not support his "views".

    If he runs as a politician
     
    I would pay to see that in Russia. LOL. He has, however, a good shot at it in the US.

    You can read some of those facepalm “analyses” here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comments

    That’s where twinkie, more of an expert than you, demolished you during your discussion with him.

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  211. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @polskijoe
    Your views dont change the fact that West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs are all Slavic.

    You are assuming all Poles are the same. Polish government antiRussian stance is stupid for sure,
    but Poland is not some aggressive beast. The army is tiny. We dont invade countries.

    You seem to have some paranoia that Poles are out to get you. And that Poles were allies of Nazis?
    More Russians fought with Nazis, than Poles did. How do you answer that?

    Poland never officially allied with Nazis and we fought them from 39-45.

    Anon from TN
    You have a point here. In WWII there were Lithuanian, Latvian, Estonian, and Ukrainian Waffen SS divisions, but no Polish ones. However, Poles did serve Hitler individually, many as volunteers (like Tusk’s grandfather). What’s more, Hitler’s rabid anti-Semitism was in line with the worldview of many Poles (maybe just a bit less so than with the views of Balts and Ukrainians). At least, there are extremely uncomplimentary tales about the behavior of Poles in German-occupied Warsaw during the uprising in Jewish ghetto in 1943.

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    • Replies: @utu

    there are extremely uncomplimentary tales about the behavior of Poles in German-occupied Warsaw during the uprising in Jewish ghetto in 1943
     
    I have read quite a lot about this period but I haven't heard the "uncomplimentary tales". I thought that worst you can claim is indifference but accusation of Schadenfreude are hard too prove. Certainly Poles did not congregate and made picnics to watch the Ghetto pacified as some Israeli do watching Gaza bombed or when some Americans congregate near a prison where an execution is about to be taken place and chanting "fry him up" or "get more juice."
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  212. @polskijoe
    How come its usually strong Soviets supporters who dislike other Slavs
    more than average Russian does?

    Is it because of Jewish mentality involved with Bolsheviks and Commies?

    I’m not sure I understand what you’re talking about. There are many problems with the Russian people, but excessive hatred of Poland isn’t one of them. lol As a matter of fact the overwhelming sentiment that Sovok types feel towards people of Eastern Europe is not hate, but betrayal.

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    • Replies: @polskijoe
    Okay. Understandable explaination.
    Btw. I never mentioned hate btw. Most Russians dont hate Poles, like most Poles dont hate Russians.

    There might be distrust, or anger about some points of history. Actually hatred is smaller minority.
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  213. @AP

    Population free fall I was talking Ukraine
     
    As I said, Ukraine's population freefall is due to eastern Sovoks failing to reproduce. There has been no freefall in the western parts of the country.

    Since you are a proud Sovok yourself, you are essentially just making fun of your own people.

    For example, Donetsk oblast had 5.3 million people in 1991, and 4.3 million people in 2013 (before the war). Loss of 1 milli0n or almost 20% of Sovoks.

    Lviv oblast had a little under 2.8 million people in 1991, 2.5 million in 2013. About 100,000 of these missing were Russians and Jews who left Lviv after independence. So loss of 200,000 or 7%.

    Not good, but, at least, better than in Russia. There were about 120 million ethnic Russians in Russia in 1989, 111 million in 2010 - loss of 9%. And it is probably lower now.

    Transcarpathia oblast has had a population increase since 1989. 1.252 million in 1989, 1.256 million in 2014.

    Poland being special project was pumped with credit while losing manufacturing
     
    Poland's manufacturing collapsed in late 80s and had improved significantly since then. For example Poland was making about 400,000 automobiles per year in the early 1980s, almost 700,000 in 2016.

    Let me educate you. Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades. Also, the eastern part ny all means was Russia given to Ukraine just like crimea. Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city. I am not so sure about how western Ukraine was doing demographically. But they did spoil the life of all Ukraine and contaminated everything. Tell about tail waging the dog.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Easterners. Damn smart phone
    , @AP

    Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades
     
    Another Sovok myth - western Ukrainians were parasites who lived off eastern Ukraine.

    Now that the "host" is gone western Ukraine must have gotten worse. Donbas can't feed it anymore!

    Instead, it is doing better than any time since 1991. Lviv wages are now equal to those of poor Russian cities such as Volgograd. So we know that Sovoks were holding Lviv back.

    Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city.
     
    In 1989, according to Soviet census, Dnipropetrovsk was 65% Ukrainian and 31% Russian. It was not another Donetsk (48% Russian, 46% Ukrainian).
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  214. @AP

    I lived in Tashkent and Dnepropetrovsk all my life in ussr and only visited Moscow starting 1988.
     
    So, guy who never lived in Russia, and left Soviet space almost 30 years ago, thinks he knows something about Russia.

    As I said Dnepropetrovsk was Russian city at the time and in Tashkent I lived in military camp /voennyj gorodok where all but 2 families were Russian from different parts of Russia. We all studied in Russian schools , were imbued with same Russian history and culture and almost all of my friends were Russians. When I talk to relatives we actually share most of views and it is natural. I hear now Dnepropetrovsk was thoroughly ukranazied.

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    • Replies: @AP

    As I said Dnepropetrovsk was Russian city at the time
     
    Sovok doesn't know about Dnipropetrovsk.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnipro#Demographics

    1989 - 62.5% Ukrainian, 31% Russian.

    Perhaps you lived there in 1887? It had a different name then.
    , @yurivku
    Sergei it's thankless job to explain something to Uk, which not corresponds with his ideology.
    And this ideology in simple is - everybody is our debtor, 'cause we are unique.
    Without a donor, as any parasite, they are nothing, currently they are struggling for the body of next donor.
    If not agree with them - you'll get portion of dirt like "sovok" etc. Leave them to clean their lavatories.

    BTW AP seems to work in Russia. I know quite some Uks who working in Russia, but still pour to her the shit from the bottom of their hearts.
    , @yurivku
    And in case you or someone don't know that history about standing Ukranian nation with help of first concentrating camp in Europe. This way Austria-Hungary filtered eastern fields of Imperia (western parts of current Ukraine) from Russians during WW1. After filtering the pure Uks were created. Those who then created UPA/OUN (УПА/ОУН) and collaborated with Hitler. Those killers which even for Nazy were too cruel.

    in Russian:
    http://wikiredia.ru/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%84

    in English:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalerhof_internment_camp
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  215. @Sergey Krieger
    Let me educate you. Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades. Also, the eastern part ny all means was Russia given to Ukraine just like crimea. Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city. I am not so sure about how western Ukraine was doing demographically. But they did spoil the life of all Ukraine and contaminated everything. Tell about tail waging the dog.

    Easterners. Damn smart phone

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  216. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @AP

    Judas, exactly and there many of them. Millions.
     
    Let's look at a list of peoples whom yurivku considers to be "traitors to Slavs" (the ones who joined NATO or are trying to join); numbers include diasporas:

    Poles: 57 million
    Ukrainians: 48 million
    Czechs: 12 million
    Bulgarians: 10 million
    Croats: 8 million
    Slovaks: 7 million
    Bosniaks: 4 million
    Slovenes: 2.5 million
    Macedonians: 2 million
    Montenegrins: .5 million

    151 million Slavs who are "traitors to Slavs"

    That's more than the 130 million Russians. Maybe Russians are the traitors?

    Anon from TN
    To the best of my knowledge, there are just under 38 million Poles, not 57 million. Claimed number of Ukrainians is even more fantastic. There were 52 million people living in Ukrainian SSR in 1991. Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine. Of course, there are 5-7 million Ukrainian gastarbeiters in several countries (mostly in Russia and Poland), so the number of citizens is probably 27-31 million, but that’s nowhere near 48 million you claimed. No wonder that Ukrainian authorities are afraid to conduct a census for many years – they know that the results would be shocking. Not to mention that before counting Transcarpathia as Ukraine you should talk to the residents there, especially Rusyns and those with Hungarian and Romanian passports. If I were you, I’d also ask how many millions of residents of Galichina and Volhynia got Polish Card (Karta Polaka), and how this reflects their “patriotism” and pride in the achievements of so-called “revolution of dignity”.
    Don’t have time to check the rest of your numbers. But these clear inaccuracies make them equally suspicious.

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    • Replies: @AP

    To the best of my knowledge, there are just under 38 million Poles, not 57 million.
     
    Your knowledge is flawed because you aren't counting Poles outside Poland. 10 million in USA, 3 million in Germany, 1 million in Canada, etc.

    I wrote "numbers include diasporas."

    But your ignorance about everything having to do with eastern Europe has been well-established.

    Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine
     
    LOL. Did you read this brilliant analysis on Russia Insider?

    Based on this measure Russia must have had a large population boom in the last 2000s:

    https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/peak_oil_food_fig16.png

    Not to mention that before counting Transcarpathia as Ukraine you should talk to the residents there
     
    I know some.

    You do realize Transcarpathia votes for Ukrainian nationalists, not as strongly as Galicia, but as strongly as central Ukraine. In the last pre-Revolutionary national elections (2012 parliamentary) Transcarpathia voted 65% for the three main nationalist parties, 31% for Yanukovich and 5% for the Communists:

    Results by oblast here

    About 1% of its population identify as Rusyns rather than as Ukrainians. These 10,000 or so people serve as a basis for some weird propaganda about anti-Ukrainian separatism in that region.

    You are an eternal source of pro-Russian nonsense about Ukraine.

    Good job demonstrating this about yourself yet again.
    , @Art Deco
    Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine.

    It's amazing what people imbibe willingly from the Wacky World of Websites.
    , @AP

    Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine.
     
    This figure is funnier when one considers per capita income. Ukraine's total GDP PPP was 352.885 billion in 2016. If there are only 22 million people in Ukraine, this means Ukraine's per capita GDPP PPP in 2016 was $16,000!

    Anon from TN just made Ukrainians wealthier than Chinese, and close to Belarussians.
    , @polskijoe
    That guys numbers are questionable.

    I see Polish ancestry, the Ukraine figures are probably too big,
    Russian figures range widely.

    Didnt see a distinction between ancestry, ethnicity, vs citizenship.

    In Ukraine there is a significant portion of "Russians or Russian-Ukrainians" (in some way).

    Wiki claims there are 55 million Polish speakers (which I find unlikely). Vast majority of Polish origin in USA dont speak Polish. Probably the same with Canada and Latin America.

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  217. AP says:
    @Pavlo
    Ukraine brings ruin to anyone it supports

    The examples you cite don't support your thesis.

    Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa betrayed Russia and joined the Swedes

    He spectacularly failed to bring the country with him.

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    Then Ukrainians served Hitler

    A minority of degenerates. The Ukrainians who brought ruin on Hitler were those on the other side.

    Then Ukrainians were “holier then thou” supporters of the Soviet Union

    The causal connection between this and the demise of the union is not demonstrated.

    Western Ukrainians fought for Austro-Hungarian Empire

    Some. The Habsburgs also felt obliged to establish their very own proto-Auschwitz to suppress the pro-Russian element.

    This is a silly myth propagated in some Orthodox circles. Thalerhof had about 30,000 internees, people accused of spying for the enemy in time of war, about 3,000 of whom died, most from disease. Two of my great-grandparents were sent there, both survived. It was no proto-Auschwitz. It wasn’t even close to what the Brits did to the Boers – 26,000 dead in the British camps.

    By 1910 the ratio of nationalists/Habsburg loyalists to Russophiles in Galicia was about at least 5:1, probably more like 9:1. Some Austrian units with Russophiles deserted (one of my relatives led a group of these POWs, a few hundred, who fought for Kolchak in Siberia) but there were no major pro-Russian uprisings or groups in western Ukraine; in contrast, the nationalist Western Ukrainian People’s Republic managed to mobilize about 100,000 troops.

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    • Replies: @Pavlo
    This is also the Wehraboo line on the Reich lagers - I suppose it wouldn't be complete without a bit of Uniate bile.

    nationalist Western Ukrainian People’s Republic managed to mobilize about 100,000 troops

    Military efforts by a statelet established in a void are not an uprising, so the contrast is not applicable.

    I shan't remind you of how the ZUNR experiment ended.
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  218. chris says:
    @chris

    So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power.
     
    Your point brought this infamous picture to mind!

    http://themetapicture.com/pic/images/2015/02/07/funny-march-fake-crowd-few-people.jpg


    “So here is my personal conclusion: democracies are political systems in which the real ruling elites hide behind an utterly fake appearance of people power.“

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    • Replies: @Cyrano
    How dare you smear such a touching moment of “solidarity”. Some more eloquent speaker like Obama might have called such event – “The audacity of mendacity”.
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  219. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Let me educate you. Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades. Also, the eastern part ny all means was Russia given to Ukraine just like crimea. Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city. I am not so sure about how western Ukraine was doing demographically. But they did spoil the life of all Ukraine and contaminated everything. Tell about tail waging the dog.

    Those who produce real things tend to suffer more compared to parasites who mostly dependent upon eastern Ukraine largeness and suffered no disonance while westerners lost what they were doing for decades

    Another Sovok myth – western Ukrainians were parasites who lived off eastern Ukraine.

    Now that the “host” is gone western Ukraine must have gotten worse. Donbas can’t feed it anymore!

    Instead, it is doing better than any time since 1991. Lviv wages are now equal to those of poor Russian cities such as Volgograd. So we know that Sovoks were holding Lviv back.

    Dnepropetrovsk used to be Russian city.

    In 1989, according to Soviet census, Dnipropetrovsk was 65% Ukrainian and 31% Russian. It was not another Donetsk (48% Russian, 46% Ukrainian).

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    ... western Ukrainians were parasites who lived off eastern Ukraine.
     
    This is partially true, though. Ukraine was a modest net recipient of transfers in the USSR, and I suspect most of those went to the rural west.

    And after 1991 the South-East in general and Donbass in particular accounted for a disproportionate share of foreign currency earnings.

    What is true is the more modest statement that west Ukraine can exist okay without Donbass.

    Lviv wages are now equal to those of poor Russian cities such as Volgograd
     
    Doesn't sound very plausible - and it isn't.

    Volgograd - 31,000 rubles (http://investorschool.ru/srednyaya-zarplata-v-rossii-po-regionam-v-2017-godu) = $550

    Lvov oblast - let's call it 6,500 grivna (https://index.minfin.com.ua/labour/salary/average/) = $250
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  220. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    To the best of my knowledge, there are just under 38 million Poles, not 57 million. Claimed number of Ukrainians is even more fantastic. There were 52 million people living in Ukrainian SSR in 1991. Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine. Of course, there are 5-7 million Ukrainian gastarbeiters in several countries (mostly in Russia and Poland), so the number of citizens is probably 27-31 million, but that’s nowhere near 48 million you claimed. No wonder that Ukrainian authorities are afraid to conduct a census for many years – they know that the results would be shocking. Not to mention that before counting Transcarpathia as Ukraine you should talk to the residents there, especially Rusyns and those with Hungarian and Romanian passports. If I were you, I’d also ask how many millions of residents of Galichina and Volhynia got Polish Card (Karta Polaka), and how this reflects their “patriotism” and pride in the achievements of so-called “revolution of dignity”.
    Don’t have time to check the rest of your numbers. But these clear inaccuracies make them equally suspicious.

    To the best of my knowledge, there are just under 38 million Poles, not 57 million.

    Your knowledge is flawed because you aren’t counting Poles outside Poland. 10 million in USA, 3 million in Germany, 1 million in Canada, etc.

    I wrote “numbers include diasporas.”

    But your ignorance about everything having to do with eastern Europe has been well-established.

    Today, based on the consumption of bread + flour, about 22-24 million people physically live in what remains of Ukraine

    LOL. Did you read this brilliant analysis on Russia Insider?

    Based on this measure Russia must have had a large population boom in the last 2000s:

    Not to mention that before counting Transcarpathia as Ukraine you should talk to the residents there

    I know some.

    You do realize Transcarpathia votes for Ukrainian nationalists, not as strongly as Galicia, but as strongly as central Ukraine. In the last pre-Revolutionary national elections (2012 parliamentary) Transcarpathia voted 65% for the three main nationalist parties, 31% for Yanukovich and 5% for the Communists:

    Results by oblast here

    About 1% of its population identify as Rusyns rather than as Ukrainians. These 10,000 or so people serve as a basis for some weird propaganda about anti-Ukrainian separatism in that region.

    You are an eternal source of pro-Russian nonsense about Ukraine.

    Good job demonstrating this about yourself yet again.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    As I expected, this “expert” has no comment about people who got Hungarian and Romanian passports or “Karta Polaka” in the last few years. I leave it to you to search Hungarian, Polish, and Romanian government sites to get the numbers. They do tell a story, but not the one you want to hear. You sound like a true “sovok”: if the facts don’t fit your theory, damn the facts. No wonder Ukraine is exactly where it is now: with defenders like that, who needs enemies?
    As to 22-24 million people and matching bread + flour consumption, here are just a few websites with the info, none on the domains .ru or .su
    https://frontnews.eu/news/en/8445/The-population-of-Ukraine-can-be-24-million-people-a-deputy
    http://world.24-my.info/production-of-bread-in-ukraine-for-16-years-has-fallen-by-half/
    https://www.sott.net/article/358816-Secrets-of-the-dead-souls-of-Ukraines-population
    As to Ukrainian GDP, the figures are from official government statistics, the same that usually claim no casualties on the Ukrainian side in Donbass, and report thousands of Russian troops and tanks there, which miraculously nobody managed to photograph since 2014 (even though people somehow photograph meteorites, lightning strikes, and other events that last a second or less). As Douglas Adams wrote in one of his novels, “if you believe that, you’d believe anything”.
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  221. @Faker
    Has this guy, the Faker, who's predicted a U.S. collapse while living in Florida for as long as I can remember, ever been right on anything?

    I remember his analyses on the Mistral fiasco, meaning his propaganda to deflect the fact that Putin and Russia had been humiliated yet again. I remember how it was supposed to crash France's sales of military hardware, just to see France the following year hit record sales...

    The problem for the Faker and his pals online, like "1997 peak oil Orlov" or the FSB' ZeroHedge, is that propaganda has reached its limits and that Russia is now facing reality economically (severe recession in the last 2 years... oh but wait, I thought it was Ukraine that was going to tank), militarily and geopolitically (who can keep track of the allies Putin has lost in the last few years?).

    Watch the great "empire slayers" China and Russia, which, I agree with commenters above are populated by people that are obsessed with money and materialism (funny that those who say all statistics out there are fake ask for stats for a fact everyone can observer with their very own eyes), cower as Trump turns up the pressure on North Korea and Syria.

    They will drop their allies like they've done for 20 years now very single time it got too warm in the kitchen. Ask Serbia, Iraq, Lybia, Cuba and others about their great ally Putin. Why would anyone want such an ally?

    How did you come by the moniker of faker?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    He plays league of legends for SKT1.
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