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The tensions between Russia and the USA have reached an unprecedented level. I fully agree with the participants of this CrossTalk show – the situation is even worse and more dangerous than during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Both sides are now going to the so-called “Plan B” which, simply put, stand for, at best, no negotiations and, at worst, a war between Russia and the USA.

The key thing to understand in the Russian stance in this, and other, recent conflicts with the USA is that Russia is still much weaker than the USA and that she therefore does not want war. That does not, however, mean that she is not actively preparing for war. In fact, she very much and actively does. All this means is that should a conflict occur, Russia you try, as best can be, to keep it as limited as possible.

In theory, these are, very roughly, the possible levels of confrontation:

1) A military standoff à la Berlin in 1961. One could argue that this is what is already taking place right now, albeit in a more long-distance and less visible way.

2) A single military incident, such as what happened recently when Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 and Russia chose not to retaliate.

3) A series of localized clashes similar to what is currently happening between India and Pakistan.

4) A conflict limited to the Syrian theater of war (say like the war between the UK and Argentina over the Malvinas Islands)

5) A regional or global military confrontation between the USA and Russia

6) A full scale thermonuclear war between the USA and Russia

During my years as a student of military strategy I have participated in many exercises on escalation and de-escalation and I can attest that while it is very easy to come up with escalatory scenarios, I have yet to see a credible scenario for de-escalation. What is possible, however, is the so-called “horizontal escalation” or “asymmetrical escalation” in which one side choses not to up the ante or directly escalate, but instead choses a different target for retaliation, not necessarily a more valuable one, just a different one on the same level of conceptual importance (in the USA Joshua M. Epstein and Spencer D. Bakich did most of the groundbreaking work on this topic).

The main reason why we can expect the Kremlin to try to find asymmetrical options to respond to a US attack is that in the Syrian context Russia is hopelessly outgunned by the US/NATO, at least in quantitative terms. The logical solutions for the Russians is to use their qualitative advantage or to seek “horizontal targets” as possible retaliatory options. This week, something very interesting and highly uncharacteristic happened: Major General Igor Konashenkov, the Chief of the Directorate of Media service and Information of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, openly mentioned one such option. Here is what he said:

“As for Kirby’s threats about possible Russian aircraft losses and the sending of Russian servicemen back to Russia in body bags, I would say that we know exactly where and how many “unofficial specialists” operate in Syria and in the Aleppo province and we know that they are involved in the operational planning and that they supervise the operations of the militants. Of course, one can continue to insist that they are unsuccessfully involved in trying to separate the al-Nusra terrorists from the “opposition” forces. But if somebody tries to implement these threats, it is by no means certain that these militants will have to time to get the hell out of there.”

Nice, no? Konashenkov appears to be threatening the “militants” but he is sure to mention that there are plenty of “unofficial specialists” amongst these militants and that Russia knows exactly where they are and how many of them there are. Of course, officially, Obama has declared that there are a few hundred such US special advisors in Syria. A well-informed Russian source suggests that there are up to 5,000 foreign ‘advisors’ to the Takfiris including about 4,000 Americans. I suppose that the truth is somewhere between these two figures.

So the Russian threat is simple: you attack us and we will attack US forces in Syria. Of course, Russia will vehemently deny targeting US servicemen and insist that the strike was only against terrorists, but both sides understand what is happening here. Interestingly, just last week the Iranian Fars news agency reported that such a Russian attack had already happened:

30 Israeli, Foreign Intelligence Officers Killed in Russia’s Caliber Missile Attack in Aleppo

“The Russian warships fired three Caliber missiles at the foreign officers’ coordination operations room in Dar Ezza region in the Western part of Aleppo near Sam’an mountain, killing 30 Israeli and western officers,” the Arabic-language service of Russia’s Sputnik news agency quoted battlefield source in Aleppo as saying on Wednesday. The operations room was located in the Western part of Aleppo province in the middle of sky-high Sam’an mountain and old caves. The region is deep into a chain of mountains. Several US, Turkish, Saudi, Qatari and British officers were also killed along with the Israeli officers. The foreign officers who were killed in the Aleppo operations room were directing the terrorists’ attacks in Aleppo and Idlib.”

Whether this really happened or whether the Russians are leaking such stories to indicate that this could happen, the fact remains that US forces in Syria could become an obvious target for Russian retaliation, whether by cruise missile, gravity bombs or direct action operation by Russian special forces. The US also has several covert military installations in Syria, including at least one airfield with V-22 Osprey multi-mission tiltrotor aircraft.

ORDER IT NOW

Another interesting recent development has been the Fox News report that Russians are deploying S-300V (aka “SA-23 Gladiator anti-missile and anti-aircraft system”) in Syria. Check out this excellent article for a detailed discussion of the capabilities of this missile system. I will summarize it by saying that the S-300V can engage ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, very low RCS (“stealth”) aircraft and AWACS aircraft. This is an Army/Army Corps -level air defense system, well capable of defending most of the Syrian airspace, but also reach well into Turkey, Cyprus, the eastern Mediterranean and Lebanon. The powerful radars of this system could not only detect and engage US aircraft (including “stealth”) at a long distance, but they could also provide a tremendous help for the few Russian air superiority fighters by giving them a clear pictures of the skies and enemy aircraft by using encrypted datalinks. Finally, US air doctrine is extremely dependent on the use of AWACS aircraft to guide and support US fighters. The S-300V will force US/NATO AWACS to operate at a most uncomfortable distance. Between the longer-range radars of the Russian Sukhois, the radars on the Russian cruisers off the Syrian coast, and the S-300 and S-300V radars on the ground, the Russians will have a much better situational awareness than their US counterparts.

It appears that the Russians are trying hard to compensate for their numerical inferiority by deploying high-end systems for which the US has no real equivalent or good counter-measures.

There are basically two options of deterrence: denial, when you prevent your enemy from hitting his targets and retaliation, when you make the costs of an enemy attack unacceptably high for him. The Russians appear to be pursuing both tracks at the same time. We can thus summarize the Russian approach as such

1) Delay a confrontation as long as possible (buy time)

2) Try to keep any confrontation at the lowest possible escalatory level

3) If possible, reply with asymmetrical/horizontal escalations

4) Rather then “prevail” against the US/NATO – make the costs of an attack too high

5) Try to put pressure on US “allies” in order to create tensions inside the Empire

6) Try to paralyze the US on a political level by making the political costs of an attack too high

7) Try to gradually create the conditions on the ground (Aleppo) to make a US attack futile

To those raised on Hollywood movies and who still watch TV, this kind of strategy will elicit only frustration and condemnation. There are millions of armchair strategists who are sure that they could do a much better job than Putin in countering the US Empire. These folks have now been telling us for *years* that Putin “sold out” the Syrians (and the Novorussians) and that the Russians ought to do X, Y and Z to defeat the AngloZionist Empire. The good news is that none of these armchair strategists sit in the Kremlin and that the Russians have stuck to their strategy over the past years, one day at a time, even when criticized by those who want quick and “easy” solutions. But the main good news is that the Russian strategy is working. Not only is the Nazi-occupied Ukraine quite literally falling apart, but the US has basically run out of options in Syria (see this excellent analysis by my friend Alexander Mercouris in the Duran).

The only remaining logical steps left for the US in Syria is to accept Russia’s terms or leave. The problem is that I am not at all convinced that the Neocons, who run the White House, Congress and the US corporate media, are “rational” at all. This is why the Russians employed so many delaying tactics and why they have acted with such utmost caution: they are dealing with professional incompetent ideologues who simply do not play by the unwritten but clear rules of civilized international relations. This is what makes the current crisis so much worse than even the Cuban Missile Crisis: one superpower has clearly gone insane.

Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo?

Maybe, maybe not. But what if we rephrase that question and ask

Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII to maintain their status as the “world’s indispensable nation”, the “leader of the free world”, the “city on the hill” and all the rest of this imperialistic nonsense?

Here I would submit that yes, they potentially are.

After all, the Neocons are correct when they sense that if Russia gets away with openly defying and defeating the USA in Syria, nobody will take the AngloZionists very seriously any more.

How do you think the Neocons think when they see the President of the Philippines publicly calling Obama a “son of a whore” and then tells the EU to go and “f*ck itself”?

Of course, the Neocons can still find some solace in the abject subservience of the European political elites, but still – they know that the writing is on the wall and that their Empire is rapidly crumbling, not only in Syria, the Ukraine or Asia, but even inside the US. The biggest danger here is that the Neocons might try to rally the nation around the flag, either by staging yet another false flag or by triggering a real international crisis.

At this point in time all we can do is wait and hope that there is enough resistance inside the US government to prevent a US attack on Syria before the next Administration comes in. And while I am no supporter of Trump, I would agree that Hillary and her evil cabal of russophobic Neocons is so bad that Trump does give me some hope, at least in comparison to Hillary.

So if Trump wins, then Russia’s strategy will be basically justified. Once Trump is on the White House, there is at least the possibility of a comprehensive redefinition of US-Russian relations which would, of course, begin with a de-escalation in Syria: while Obama/Hillary categorically refuse to get rid of Daesh (by that I mean al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, and all their various denominations), Trump appears to be determined to seriously fight them, even if that means that Assad stays in power. There is most definitely a basis for dialog here. If Hillary comes in, then the Russians will have to make an absolutely crucial call: how important is Syria in the context of their goal to re-sovereignize Russia and to bring down the AngloZionist Empire? Another way of formulating the same question is “would Russia prefer a confrontation with the Empire in Syria or in the Ukraine?”.

One way to gauge the mood in Russia is to look at the language of a recent law proposed by President Putin and adopted by the Duma which dealt with the issue of the Russia-US Plutonium Management and Disposition Agreement (PMDA) which, yet again, saw the US yet again fail to deliver on their obligations and which Russia has now suspended. What is interesting, is the language chosen by the Russians to list the conditions under which they would resume their participation in this agreement and, basically, agree to resume any kind of arms negotiations:

  1. A reduction of military infrastructure and the number of the US troops stationed on the territory of NATO member states that joined the alliance after September 1, 2000, to the levels at which they were when the original agreement first entered into force.
  2. The abandonment of the hostile policy of the US towards Russia, which should be carried out with the abolition of the Magnitsky Act of 2012 and the conditions of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014, which were directed against Russia.
  3. The abolition of all sanctions imposed by the US on certain subjects of the Russian Federation, Russian individuals and legal entities.
  4. The compensation for all the damage suffered by Russia as a result of the imposition of sanctions .
  5. The US is also required to submit a clear plan for irreversible plutonium disposition covered by the PMDA .

Now the Russians are not delusional. They know full well that the USA will never accept such terms. So what is this really all about? It is a diplomatic but unambiguous way to tell the USA the exact same thing which Philippine President Duterte (and Victoria Nuland) told the EU.

The Americans better start paying attention.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Russia, Syria 
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  1. For once I actually largely agree with the Saker; and I hope he’s right about Russian strategy…I wouldn’t really find it objectionable if the Russians killed US, British or French advisors or whoever is aiding the rebels in Syria. I just hope Russia wouldn’t react with an invasion of the Baltic states or something similar, that would be a nightmare scenario.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Rabbitnexus
  2. The Americans are keen on supporting the abortion industry, the illicit drugs industry, the porn industry, the gay industry, etc. etc. That is the American way of life for the last 50 years.

    Not surprisingly some like Duterte and Putin are over it.

    What has this to do with Syria? The problem is that for the ideologically driven leaders of the left like Obama and Hillary such matters are of the utmost importance. They are literally provoking WW3 over gay parades in Moscow.

    They have decided that Russia must change and are going after her via Libya, Iran, Syria and Ukraine. The actions of the American’s don’t make any sense otherwise. Why are they provoking chaos and war using Islamic militants? A pipeline! There are other places to run pipelines.

    The Russians and Filipinos are getting a bit shirty, the American cultural war over the last decades has turned the third world into a seedy vice and crime ridden nightclub for the benefit of decadent American tourists. And don’t doubt that is is a large factor in American financial dominance, a corrupted nation is easy to bribe and control.

    The explanation I offer for all this is not on the radar for many people. The social and sexual revolution has long become one of those unquestioned assumptions and falls into the category of unquestionable truth for people on both sides of politics.

    It is the unquestioned assumptions concerning the morality of gay men and feminists and promiscuous sexual activity that people like Obama are willing to provoke WW3 over.

    The funny thing is that the gay men or feminists will never fight the wars. They will use funny money and pay Islamist’s to do it. The American leaders of this generation are completely immoral.

    • Agree: Stonehands
    • Replies: @TJM
    , @IA
  3. Rurik says:

    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo?

    it isn’t over Aleppo Saker, that’s just a stepping stone to the Golan Heights, and beyond. The Iraq/Libya treatment of Syria is just one more domino of theirs to fall on the way to the entire planet under their boot

    if they allow Putin to quash their schemes for the Golan by keeping Syria intact, then that would be existential to their intentions vis-a-vis the rest of the planet.

    30 Israeli, Foreign Intelligence Officers Killed in Russia’s Caliber Missile Attack in Aleppo

    that would certainly explain the angry hornets nest they acted like recently

    some links

    http://nsnbc.me/2016/10/05/syria-blasts-israel-over-continued-occupation-of-the-golan-heights/

    this one is my personal favorite!

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/05/obama-shifts-blame-from-assad-to-global-warming-as-the-cause-of-the-syrian-civil-war/

    here’s some fine Orwellian doublespeak

    http://www.businessinsider.com/fall-of-aleppo-to-assad-could-boost-extremism-and-isis-2016-10

    Putin has the hopes and future of the entire planet in his hands. I pray him God speed, and a cool head. He is truly a man standing at the edge of our darkness, and taking on the Fiend to protect us all.

    reminds me of this scene

  4. attonn says:

    “A single military incident, such as what happened recently when Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 and Russia chose not to retaliate”. (Saker)

    That’s nonsense.
    Russia did retaliate – by placing S-400 at Khmeimim AB, imposing visas on Turks, banning sales of tours to Turkey, economic sanctions, decimating Turkoman rebels, etc.

    That single lost plane cost the Turks $10B at least.

    If America openly attacks Russia, you can forget about keeping this thing “limited”. All USAF bases in Europe and Middle East will be set ablaze, quite possibly with tactical nukes.

    And no, Russia is not “much weaker than the USA”, at least in Syria and its immediate vicinity. America may enjoy some marginal advantage, but it will be gone quickly.

    • Disagree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    , @Joe Wong
  5. When I visualize a combat scenario I have a tendency to leave out the inconvenient parts that mess up my ideal plans…if I’m not careful the planning exercise can quickly turn into a meaningless session of fantasy roleplaying. Unfortunately, I think that’s what the Saker has done here…a fantasy roleplaying session presented to us in the form of an incomplete article. He leaves out two hugely inconvenient pieces…China, and Iran. China could very easily have 300,000 troops on the ground in Syria in a matter of weeks, and not break a sweat. As for the Iranians…I read an article some years ago about the willingness of the Iranian people to go to war against the US. One of the Mullahs called for volunteers for an army of Holy Martyrs to attack the US…over 300,000 people volunteered. And, since the hatred for the US has only increased over these past years, I can easily believe those numbers will now be double the previous turnout.

    The Russians, and the Chinese, both know that the US is ruled by forces other than those presented to the American Sheople, on TV. They know that it is the Jews who operate the levers of power in Washington…and every thing that is now happening is per the Jewish plan for world domination. They (Russia/China) know that the Jews are frantically trying to keep the holocaust mythology from falling apart; millions of people are waking up to the fact that the “holocaust thing” ain’t adding up. Most of you don’t know this, but, the official numbers of holocaust victims has been gradually reduced, by the Jews themselves, from the original 6 million figure, down to approximately 3.7 million today. They still use the 6 million figure, though, because they know that people are too lazy, and too stupid, to look into it. All of the holocaust survivor stories have been thoroughly debunked…some of them are quite laughable indeed! One lady claimed that as a gassing was underway, a guard knock on the window (of the gas chamber!) and motioned for her to come to the door…the guard opened the door (of the gas chamber!!) and told her to report to Dr. Mengele for her daily medical torture session! HAHAHA! That’s why they call you people, sheople!

    The 9/11 cover-up is falling apart, too…with Jewish fingerprints all over everything. Their attempt to obfuscate their true level of involvement in the murderous communist machine has been thwarted…Vladimir Putin stated that the Jews occupied 80-85% of the positions in the 1st Soviet government; Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn puts the total number of dead at 66 million. The USS Liberty cover-up has been shredded. Jewish involvement in the mass-migrant crisis in Europe is also being exposed. The list, and it’s a really long one, goes on and on.

    The point is that the Jews are being exposed for what they really are…criminals! It’s not going to be too much longer that the people of the world are going to get sick and tired of the criminality of the Jews, and they’re going to rise up and throw the Jews out into the street! But, it’ll be much worse than that…Jews will be shot-up in their homes; dragged from their offices and hung from the nearest lamppost. The only safe place for them will be Israel…to there they will flee by the millions. As the sheople wake up they will overthrow their corrupt governments, and take control of their militaries…and turn them on Israel. The former state of Israel will set a new world record for being the largest gravel parking lot in the world!

    The New World Order is an all-or-nothing game for the Jews, and they’re losing ground fast. The only way they can get out in front of it is to foment WW3…which is exactly what they’re doing with their US/NATO puppets in Syria. They would rather slaughter 5 billion people than to get a single scratch on their hand!

    • Replies: @Penguinchip
  6. Kiza says:

    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo?

    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII to maintain their status as the “world’s indispensable nation”, the “leader of the free world”, the “city on the hill” and all the rest of this imperialistic nonsense?

    This is the paragraph in which Saker shows his analytical maturity. Yes, the Ziocons are neither competent, nor rational, nor sensible; they will initiate WW3 for the latter reason. The Ziocons truly remind me of the Communist ideologues, who are prepared to defy reality indefinitely, even when it is blatantly obvious that their time is up. They will destroy everything rather than admit that they were wrong. The history has come full circle, the Communist-like ideologues (Communism for the rich) are ruling the West now, the social fairness-oriented national-conservatives rule the East.

    Will the World survive the downfall of the Ziocons?

    • Replies: @colm
  7. colm says:
    @Kiza

    No. We won’t survive the Ziocons’ demise since they will nuke all of us.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  8. colm says:

    I don’t think Ms. Clinton and her friends will have any mercy on their foes. I don’t see how Russia will cope with her wrath.

    • Replies: @attonn
  9. Kiza says:

    Now the Russians are not delusional. They know full well that the USA will never accept such terms. So what is this really all about? It is a diplomatic but unambiguous way to tell the USA the exact same thing which Philippine President Duterte (and Victoria Nuland) told the EU.

    It is actually a bit more than the now common vulgarity. The listed points are the best statement to the neutrals, that is ordinary US and EU people, what Russia really wants, they are the true Russian desires in front of which the West has erected an iron curtain of mind-numbing lies, innuendo and propaganda (aka FUD). Russia should keep repeating these five points until everybody in the West, and especially the Hillary voters, understand this simple truth. Russia wants respect for the Russians, as well as respect for true international rules, not the rules which the West establishes from case-to-case according to its interests in each case: “what I say is the law”.

    Just consider the medal tally of all the sick/ill Western sports people (thanks to WADA). Is there any better example of the pliability of the Western laws and rules? Russia wants to repel such laws-of-the-(sports)-jungle.

  10. The Scalpel says: • Website

    I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”. As another commenter mentioned, Iran could also quickly ramp up the number of ground forces supporting the Syrian government. Potentially, any US “coalition” opposing the Syrian government could literally be overrun by Chinese and Iranian ground forces in combination with Russian air defense.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @in the middle
  11. @attonn

    What you are prosing would require that Putin be insane. Everything Saker mentions about the US risking WW3 applies just as much to Putinist Russia.

    Given Obama’s weakness, you may be right about the US disappearing. Much will depend on who is elected in November. The next POTUS will not have as much “flexibility” as Obama has had.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  12. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder how many US special forces embedded with the rebels-“unofficial advisors”-have been killed so far in the Russian air strikes? They wouldn’t tell us if it happened anyway. The story about the strike on the operations center seems rather fanciful as it doesn’t seem logical for such an alphabet soup of people to be working together at the same location. Something may have happened though, since the strike on the SAA could well have been retaliatory.
    In order to have kept fighting all these past years the rebels have run through much ammo and weaponry. Since none the various rebel groups own any arms or ammo factories that we know of it becomes obvious that they’ve been getting a steady supply of ammo from other sources. And those sources are?
    Syria is one of the pins slated to fall in the US multi-year project of reshaping the region to suit American wants with the road eventually leading to Tehran. The project has bogged down here and has unleashed a veiled fury at having their unstoppable march stymied. Hence the seeming obsession with Syria by the American government.
    I’m waiting to see if the American government will engineer an ‘incident’ of sorts, perhaps a plane shoot-down, ours or one of theirs, in order to affect the vote in the upcoming election.

  13. Given Putin’s ultimatum, nothing is going to be solved. Were Obama not so weak, he’d never make such a statement. Even so, those conditions will never be fulfilled, and he knows it. Putin doesn’t want a solution. He’s simply calling US weakness and daring them to do something about it.

    I don’t think Putin is stupid and risking WW3 would be stupid on his part. WW3 is coming, but the conditions are such the US probably won’t be involved except on the edges, and it will destroy Putin’s attempted revival of the Soviet Union. Russia will be reduced to a rump.

    I have to laugh at Saker’s fantasies abut an Anglo-Zionist empire. It exists only in his fertile imagination. Anyone seriously thinking Europe is some sort of US toady isn’t playing with a full deck.

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he’ll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova. He doesn’t have the economic strength to support such imperial adventurism. We’ll see over the next year if Putin has any sort of brain or not. If not, he’ll stay the course he is on.

  14. Randal says:

    China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”. As another commenter mentioned, Iran could also quickly ramp up the number of ground forces supporting the Syrian government.

    China has no military infrastructure, doctrine or experience for that kind of massive long distance military deployment, and would struggle to supply and protect any significant deployment to Syria. This will likely be true for a number of years yet, perhaps decades (depending upon China’s strategic priorities and investments).

    It’s just not going to happen. If China were to play any part it would be economically and/or diplomatically.

    As for Iran, such ground forces as Iran could or is likely to deploy across Iraq to Syria are unlikely to cause any problems there if US forces are directly engaged.

    I don’t think either China’s or Iran’s potential military involvement is particularly relevant to the issue Saker is discussing here, of the cost/benefit calculation the US regime is currently weighing, over whether to gamble the lives of every human being on the planet to try to retrieve its disappearing regime change effort in Syria

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  15. Randal says:
    @Quartermaster

    Putin’s attempted revival of the Soviet Union

    LOL! Every bit as laughable as Saker’s silliness about an “Anglo-Zionist empire”.

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he’ll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova.

    Comical. In Syria, it’s the US that is illegally interfering in a sovereign foreign country in support of armed rebels, and that is aggressively trying to “regime change” a longstanding Russian ally, and yet you think anybody honest and informed is going to take your absurd suggestion that “Russia should pull its horns in” seriously!?

    If the US regime adopts any of the “kinetic” options recently suggested by Washington warmongers to try to revive its failed regime change efforts in Syria, it will be essentially declaring war on Russia and risking uncontrolled escalation. For that reason alone, there’s some hope at least that the current President will squash such suggestions. A future President might not, if she’s the kind of warmongering psychopath she appears to be and her record suggests she is.

    • Replies: @hbm
  16. bluedog says:
    @Quartermaster

    Of course we are trying to build an empire, for after all this was suppose to be OUR century and we would control the world and its resourcs”s which are put there for OUR purpose,as far as Europe is concerned they are OUR colonies and do and will continue to do as we dictate.

    • Replies: @colm
    , @RadicalCenter
  17. Avery says:
    @The Scalpel

    {I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”.}

    There is no Chinese wildcard.

    China has no strategic interests in Syria for which to risk troops.
    Historically, traditionally, culturally China minds its own business around its periphery.

    China will go to war, if it has to, with US or anybody else that threatens her interest in her backyard, but you’ll never see Chinese troops in Syria.
    There is nothing in it for them.
    Unlike Russia, nothing that happens in Syria will affect China in the least.

    • Replies: @frankie p
  18. Blosky says:

    [Pick a single handle and stick to it or use Anonymous/Anon]

    “Russia is hopelessly outgunned by the US/NATO, at least in quantitative terms.”

    Not to nitpick, but hey, whatever. There is no NATO, just the US. And look how well we did in Iraq! Yay! I’ve said it plenty of times before under other names, but at this point, the US is all talk. And not even good at it anymore. Who we got, John Francis Kerry…

  19. colm says:
    @bluedog

    Amen!

    Yes, it is OUR century. Ms. Clinton will bring the new world order into fruition and everyone standing in front of her will share the fate of Vince Foster.

  20. Max Payne says:

    The US knows how to escalate horizontally too (“shifting ladders”). Ukraine was just one shift after Syria. No need to climb the ladder and go full-retard nuclear when there are other options. I’m sure there’s a few theaters left to exploit like Georgia in ’08. Russia is one big country, there is bound to be a few dissidents the US can train (no need to arm them, AKs grow on trees in Russia).

    I also don’t believe that changing the category of targets is considered a horizontal shift. That would be a vertical escalation. Having Russia move from attacking middlemen proxy groups (ie jihadists) to actively engaging covert Western special forces and intelligence units is a huge jump. It opens up the door for retaliation on any Russian forces in theater.

    There was a good chart which I can’t find for the life of me but it had vertical escalation on the Y-axis (climbing the ladder; increased number of incidents, increased intensity, increased frequency, deploying more strategic weapons), the horizontal escalation on X (shifting ladders; proxy warfare, color revolutions, special operations, training and arming dissidents) and finally the political escalation on the Z-axis (expanding the ladder; change in rhetoric, loosening of the ROE, removing behavioral constraints, demonstrating forces and technology).

    I do believe changing the category of targets is climbing the ladder (much like how changing from military targets to civilian targets).

    I can’t wait when both sides try to damage each others radar systems and sensors. Just troll each other with radar jamming and microwave emissions, maybe try to overload some circuits, blind some satellites and observation systems with lasers, finger-in-your-eye type of move. That might be a horizontal shift…

  21. @German_reader

    But maybe what the Saker is proposing is impossible. There are just few US troops in Syria, maybe they are contractors (so nobody will care if they die), maybe it won’t be so easy to kill them…

    I’m sure, though, that Putin will not just idly stand by as his troops in Syria are destroyed. He’ll retaliate some way or another. After which he will be further demonized, and will get some further escalation. I personally think if the Americans attack Syria, there will be an over 1% chance of an all-out nuclear war, and I might actually underestimate the chances.

    I’m quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don’t know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy? Don’t they know that we didn’t have a nuclear war precisely because everyone was dead frightened of the prospect? Once you no longer fear it, its probability will grow enormously…

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Randal
  22. @reiner Tor

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
    If European elites weren’t so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue…our dependency on the US isn’t healthy.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Randal
    , @Ron Unz
  23. Avery says:
    @German_reader

    {… while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    WTF.

    SU ‘occupied’, quote, half of Europe?
    Did the Anglo-American empire occupy (western) half of Europe?
    Does US occupy Germany to this day? Yes or No.

    If it weren’t for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers. The ‘half of Europe’ (Eastern Europe) would be denuded of its (mostly) Slavic, indigenous peoples – to make Lebensraum for the alleged Master Race, which got massively master f___ by the supposed Slavic Untermenschen.

    You neo-Nazi genocidal filth.

  24. Randal says:
    @reiner Tor

    I’m quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don’t know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy?

    Clearly some either are that crazy or think it’s beneficial to bluff. I don’t read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.

    Often people seeming “crazy” is just a result of assuming they share your motivations, or motivations you impute to them, when they don’t (such as assuming US foreign policy is intended to benefit the US nation, when often it is run for foreign or domestic lobbies’ interests that can be directly opposed to those of the US as a whole). Such cases often cover, for instance, US interventionist wars and their “crazy” advocates – though in John McCain’s case I’m coming around to the idea he’s just been literally insane for some years now. But it’s hard to attribute that kind of differential motivation to someone willing to risk nuclear war – who would really benefit from a strategic nuclear exchange? Perhaps it’s just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.

    Anyway, I think we will be in a new and genuinely scary place if and when Clinton is elected.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  25. @The Scalpel

    Might as well leave the Chinese outside, since all they know is to copy western products, and make mythical kung fu movies. The last time they fought, they were beating badly by the Vietnamese! So, it is Russia, and Iran, both have not lost a war for generations, so they can hold it on their own, I think.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  26. Randal says:
    @German_reader

    If European elites weren’t so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue…our dependency on the US isn’t healthy.

    Absolutely agree with this, and the same goes, in spades, for my own country.

    And I recognise that my own country has over the years played its full part in preventing the emergence of anything that might grow into an independent European military structure. As with much of the history of my country’s post-1945 humiliation, I understand the reasons for that, but I believe they expired some time after 1990, along with any justification for Britain’s continued subordination to the US.

    NATO’s continued existence is a big part of the problem, as well as a symptom of it.

  27. @Avery

    “You neo-Nazi genocidal filth.”

    That’s a somewhat extreme reaction, don’t you think?
    The Soviet Union was an imperialist power and its rule was resented by very large percentages of the populations of Eastern bloc countries. No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been, but then I never denied that (except in your imagination). Doesn’t change the fact the Soviets definitely overstayed ther welcome in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary etc.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Kiza
  28. @Randal

    Perhaps it’s just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.

    I think it’s very similar to how financial risks are built up. Perhaps the traders and executives at Deutsche Bank or Lehman Brothers didn’t actively wish to bankrupt their own institutions, but it paid well to take risks (if you take a risk which will bankrupt you 1% of the time but gives you a slightly above average returns, then many people will take the risk and thrive, because they’ll underestimate the 1% chance since they haven’t seen anything like that in their lives), and when shit hit the fan, they said – hoocoodanode?

    Now I can feel a similar mindset with the Beltway Crowd, they haven’t seen a nuclear war or even a war with major power, so they think its chances are nil. Which they aren’t.

    • Replies: @Randal
  29. Avery says:

    [Randal says:October 7, 2016 at 7:24 pm GMT]

    {….though in John McCain’s case I’m coming around to the idea he’s just been literally insane for some years now. }

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.

    { I don’t read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.}

    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a ‘red line in the sand’ in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.

    Hate to say this, but President Obama never outgrew his Chicago community organizer roots: he simply has no understanding of the world outside of Chicago. That is one reason he is being led by the nose by the evil females in his admin: being led into a possible nuke confrontation with Russia.

    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Randal
  30. hbm says:
    @Randal

    Someone has expansionist plans and fantasies to re-establish their borders at the extent of the ‘old Empire’ out of which they intend to rule the world, and it’s not the Russians.

  31. Randal says:

    What is possible, however, is the so-called “horizontal escalation” or “asymmetrical escalation” in which one side choses not to up the ante or directly escalate, but instead choses a different target for retaliation, not necessarily a more valuable one, just a different one on the same level of conceptual importance

    Horizontal escalation, however, is still escalatory, and really applies where effectively admitting defeat in the original theatre is regarded as inevitable, but the aggressor is more vulnerable elsewhere.

    An example of threatening horizontal escalation would be if Russia were to signal an intent to attack US interests elsewhere if the US attacks in Syria. The point would be to try to deter the US attack by signalling that the Russians would not accept defeat in Syria lying down.

    The problems with that are twofold – first Russia lacks really useful options to directly attack US interests elsewhere that the US would necessarily fear, and second it’s genuinely difficult to see any such escalatory options that would not be every bit as scary as a direct escalation in Syria by fighting back against US forces intruding into Syria. Attack in Ukraine or Baltic States? Why would that bother the US? – it just creates PR and military occupation problems for Russia and hands the US a propaganda gift in Europe. Support forces fighting US interests in Afghanistan or Iraq? Why would the US be particularly bothered by such pinpricks?

    The point is, we should not under any circumstances regard proposals for US intervention in Syria as anything other than spectacularly dangerous, in terms of the risks of uncontrolled escalation. Giving a weaker military power a choice between humiliating defeat and appeasement of the aggressor, or stepping up the escalatory ladder to its bitter end, does not always end well.

    It’s interesting how the US warmongers’ position is now the opposite of that of early Cold War America, when they believed (or claimed to believe) that the Soviet Union was a genuine threat because it was supposedly militarily stronger in the US’s supposedly vital interest areas in Europe and elsewhere, but insisted that it could be deterred by a resolute insistence that the US would escalate to a suicidal strategic nuclear exchange if necessary, rather than be defeated. Whereas now they are arguing that Russia will be rational and accept defeat rather than escalate to a strategic nuclear exchange, if it is only confronted aggressively enough.

  32. Randal says:
    @reiner Tor

    Yes, you’re probably correct as far as the US regime careerists are concerned.

    You are referring, I think, to a variant of what Taleb described as “picking up pennies in front of a steamroller”.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  33. 5371 says:
    @Avery

    Obama chickened out himself, and wisely so; Putin simply offered him a figleaf to hide it after the fact.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  34. Randal says:
    @Avery

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.

    Indeed. Though if things had gone a bit differently, he might have been President – now that is as terrifying a prospect as the idea of Clinton winning this time round.

    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a ‘red line in the sand’ in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.

    I have never been a fan of Obama, but I find the arguments that he backed away from pushing the Syrian intervention in 2013 plausible. He made a mistake with the “red line” nonsense, but he did not really need to go to Congress at all before striking Syrian forces. The US constitution allows him to start a war and then go to Congress – at which point US jingoism and media interventionism will certainly swing approval for any war, unless it was transparently losing already, and there was little likelihood of that.

    You could argue that he went to Congress out of cowardice, wanting political cover just in case things went disastrously, or you could read it as doing so in the hope of getting what he got – a get-out to allow him to back down. I tend to regard the latter as more plausible in this case.

    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.

    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  35. pyrrhus says:

    US military in very poor shape for fighting a war…http://weaponsman.com/?p=35582

  36. @Randal

    Exactly. Whatever the benefits of kicking the Russians out of Syria to those who are advocating it, I’m sure it’s trivial compared to what they’d lose in a nuclear exchange. I’m sure it’s a case of bad groupthink, these guys (and gals) live in an intellectual bubble. Even if individually they might think of the risks, they take their clues from the others (“if nobody’s worried, there’s probably nothing to worry about”), just like traders taking their clues from the market (“it’s up, so probably no reason to worry”), the problem is, by the time they realize they miscalculated, it’ll be too late for us all. (Besides, they’ll blame the evil, irrational Putin for this.)

    • Replies: @annamaria
  37. Rurik says:
    @Avery

    If it weren’t for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers.

    if it weren’t for the genocidal Bolshevik monsters who grabbed Russia ‘by the hair of the head”, and were genociding Ukrainians by the millions – with the intention of doing the same to Germany, then there would never have been any Nazis to begin with.

    the Nazis were an answer to the commie filth that were trying to take over Germany in the 1930s

    Hitler was a response to this deadly threat and anti-human plague upon mankind

    that the Nazis eventually became monsters too, was a direct consequence of having to fight the Bolshevik drooling fiend in the first place

    many people say Hamas is a terrorist organization. But Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary

    Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism

    Gentile resistance movements to the scourge of genocidal Jewish supremacism

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wally
  38. @Randal

    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.

    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Randal
  39. Rurik says:
    @German_reader

    No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been

    tell that to these people

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @pogohere
  40. @Rurik

    lol, one obsessive tells me I’m a Nazi, and now you’re trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn’t Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Rurik
  41. @reiner Tor

    Actors during the Cuban missile crisis had also lived through the world wars, even the American side back then at least had an inkling what war among great powers was really like (JFK was a flawed person, but after all he was a combat veteran and had lost one brother in WW2). I’m worried that knowledge and the consequent restraint has been lost among the current leadership…the mindless bellicosity of some American politicians disturbs me.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  42. @in the middle

    For some bizarre reason you wrote…

    The last time they fought, they were beating badly by the Vietnamese!

    What are you referring to? As far as I know the Chinese have dominated the Vietnamese for more than a thousand years…every once in a while the Chinese will reach over and give Vietnam a titty twister, or a wedgie, or knock them down and take their lunch money.

    Not only will the highly capable Chinese military intervene to help their allies in Syria, they will also attack Taiwan…this will force the US to fight a three front war: In Syria; on the shore’s of Taiwan and China; and in the continental US, where there are 10’s of thousands of Chinese agent/saboteurs already deployed. At, or near, the beginning of the breakout of hostilities, the Chinese will almost certainly dump their massive dollar holdings which will trigger an unstoppable cascade of dollar-selling. The American economy will collapse within a few days. Within a month millions of Americans will begin the terrible process of starvation; food riots, break-in’s, and murder-for-food will ensue. Within 4-6 months all domestic pets will have been consumed. Within six months the first rumors of cannibalism will begin to emerge. Within a year 100 million Americans will be dead. I’ll let your imagination take it from there.

    There won’t be many US troops deployed on American soil, they’ll all be deployed overseas…the only troops you’ll see in America will be UN troops. In case you don’t know, there are already thousands of UN vehicles strategically positioned all across the US. How about the FEMA camps…ever hear of them? They’re real. I’ve seen some of them for myself. And what about all those plastic coffins…millions of them positioned all across the US, each one capable of holding five adult bodies. It’s these kinds of things that tell us that this whole thing is being orchestrated by international forces…forces that operate over and above the individual Western governments.

    If you’re not prepared for this upcoming terribleness you’re going to regret it. You will die an awful death. You have been warned.

    As for me, I’ll be as snug as a bug in a rug! I’ve got a list of all the pharmaceuticals I will likely need for my extended underground vacation; when the Chinese dump the dollar, that night, I’ll visit the three pharmacies nearest to me and clean them out. After a year or so, I’ll pop my head out and see what’s what…the stink of your rotting corpses’ should be gone by then. I’m not sure what my short-term plans will be…maybe kill a few blue-helmets, liberate a few detention camps, you know, the usual. My long range plan is to search for and locate a good looking young maiden, take her back to my lair, feed her an MRE, and then begin repopulating the earth!

  43. Ron Unz says:
    @German_reader

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.

    Yes, that’s my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I’d really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…

  44. @German_reader

    Same thing with financial crises: 2008 would not have been possible if the traders who lived through the 1930s were still alive and in business. The lessons couldn’t be forgotten, until a new generation came that never learned them in the first place.

  45. Avery says:
    @German_reader

    {lol, one obsessive tells me I’m a Nazi, and now you’re trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn’t Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?}

    You did write this above did you not: {… while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    What does Soviet Union have to do with the topic at hand – the current Syrian crises. If you open the door to something, don’t complain if posters take advantage.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  46. @Ron Unz

    “But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…”

    It’s depressing, but I think you can be proud about what you’ve already achieved with this site…it’s certainly appreciated by myself and many other readers.
    As for elites in the US and many European countries, I really do wonder how we ended up with people so obviously deluded and incompetent in charge. Something seems to have gone seriously wrong in the last 25 years.

    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
    , @Stonehands
  47. Avery says:
    @Ron Unz

    {…preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders,..}

    Ouch!

    [Wood Chipper Scene Fargo]

  48. @Avery

    I merely meant to contrast the situation during the Cold war with the situation now. During the Cold war there was serious ideological conflict between the West and the Soviet Union. Still, open war was mercifully avoided. It would be absurd and an unforgivable failing of the responsible politicians if it came to a US/NATO-Russia war now when there is no ideological conflict, no real clash of vital interests, and actually quite a few areas where Russia and Western countries should have common interests (e.g. combating Islamism).
    You may of course disagree, but calling me a Nazi was certainly a bizarre overreaction.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  49. Kiza says:
    @German_reader

    Or you could just admit that you ideologically imbued just like the next MSM-fed Westerner. You write a few good points and then show your limitations. I agree with Avery except for his over-reaction of calling you names. You are just an ordinary Westerner (possibly German) with unfulfilled ambition to be more than ordinary.

  50. Randal says:
    @reiner Tor

    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.

    Yes, I agree with pretty much all you and German_reader have said here about the calibre of the people involved, and the likely reasons for their inadequacy next to past generations.

    I still think it’s hard to really claim we aren’t somewhat safer without the possibility of a technical fault or hair trigger over-reaction initiating a nuclear exchange within a few minutes, though. But that’s not really all that encouraging.

    That aside, I agree we are probably at a much higher risk of escalation to open conventional war between the US and Russia than we ever were in the Cold War, with all that implies. And no doubt before that happens we’ll be back to launch on warning anyway.

  51. Randal says:
    @Ron Unz

    Personally, I’d really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    Bloody hell!

    It’s good to know you think it, but it’s probably best not to say it out loud! In vino veritas?

    But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…

    You’re doing what you can, and more than most.

    • Replies: @Avery
  52. utu says:
    @Rurik

    “Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary” – Not exactly. Hamas was actually created with the help of Mossad to delegitimize PLO of Arafat that had international support and was not religious. TPTB always uses the crazies, the extremists to derail the effort of the moderates. Muslim Brotherhood were used by CIA against Nasser but failed. Taliban like opposition was used against Afghanistan regime supported by Soviets in late 1970s to destabilize it and bring Soviet invasion. Al Queda, Al Nusra, Daesh you name them, all financed and supported by CIA and Mossad to destabilize moderate regimes.

    Anyway, you analogy between nazis and bolsheviks was wrong.

    • Disagree: Rurik, SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  53. utu says:

    Pentagon Begins Low-Intensity, Stealth War in Syria

    “Last Wednesday, at a Deputies Committee meeting at the White House, officials from the State Department, the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff discussed limited military strikes against the (Assad) regime … One proposed way to get around the White House’s long-standing objection to striking the Assad regime without a U.N. Security Council resolution would be to carry out the strikes covertly and without public acknowledgment.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/07/pentagon-begins-low-intensity-stealth-war-in-syria/

  54. @German_reader

    There is ZERO chance of a Russian invasion anywhere. They are not set up for such secenarios, this is a defensive military with amazing standoff capabilities. Any talk of Russian invasions is pure NATO driven hysteria.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  55. @Ron Unz

    Never mind these yammering fairies brother, I’ll supply the wood chipper and help load the [email protected]@rds into it.

  56. @Rabbitnexus

    I don’t have a military background so I’m totally unqualified to judge that; I’ve just recently seen it claimed that Russia could overrun the Baltic states in 60 hours, and NATO couldn’t do much about it ( http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/would-russia-attack-invade-the-baltics-could-americas-17921 ). But of course that may just be scaremongering, for laymen like me it’s hard to know what to believe about these matters.

  57. Avery says:
    @Rurik

    {someone blinked}

    Nope.
    It’s a foil.

    The reptiles are publicly disavowing it so that when they do it, they will claim ignorance or a “mistake”.

    They might force some hapless NATO ‘partners’ (expendables) to bomb and get shot down to spare the embarrassment of a USAF jet being shot down.

    But the reptiles will not give up that easy.

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @schmenz
  58. Kiza says:

    I believe that this is the main point of this whole discussion: the Ziocons and their terrorists have suffered a major defeat, they are fuming now and they are guaranteed to reach for their usual false-flag toolbox: just like 911, MH17, attack on UN convoy and so on. We simply need to appreciate that Ziocons control CIA and most of DoD. The former now have instructions to prepare false-flags, because humanitarian-catastrophe propaganda on Aleppo has not worked sufficiently well. In short, the Ziocons will not give up on Syria and just move on to creating their ‘better-luck’ next war.

    Because I remember the US War on Vietnam (not Vietnam War) so well, I liked how Jack Perry describs the contemporary Kool-Aid party: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/jack-perry/pentagon-kool-aid-party/

    • Replies: @Rurik
  59. Perhaps the sensible Russian move is to involve Israel. Inform them that if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel. Suggest Russia has lost patience and Israel could face depressed trajectory nukes from Russian submarines. End of Regime. Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes. Suggest that Israel has a real come to Jesus moment about playing hardball.

  60. Avery says:
    @Randal

    {You’re doing what you can, and more than most.}

    Agree.
    Kudos to Mr. Unz for creating and running UNZ.com.
    Its effectiveness can be gauged by the sustained DoS attacks it endured for a couple of weeks or so. (who was it?)

    (RT.com, another site (funded by Moscow) which counters and debunks the Neocon MSM disinformation and propaganda, also was under sustained DoS attack a couple of weeks ago).

    So the venomous reptiles are feeling threatened in their dark and damp den when the torchlight of truth is shone on them.

    Again, Thanks and Kudos to Mr. Unz and the team at UNZ.com for providing the platform.

  61. Rurik says:
    @Kiza

    that’s a great article

    I remember when someone asked Mel Gibson why he made the movie Apocalypto, and he said he wanted to show the folly of mindless human sacrifice, because he wanted us to stop it. And the interviewer said something like ‘well that certainly isn’t going on today’, whereupon Gibson said something to the effect.. ‘what is war if not ritual human sacrifice?’

    Jack Perry is right about the Americans today, but it isn’t a phenomena restricted only to Americans. If there’s a war between Russia and Ukraine, it will be because their governments have created in the people a patriotic and myopic sense of singular grievance against the ‘others’. The Ukrainians see the Russians as unrepentant for the myriad crimes of the imperial Soviets, and the Russians see the Ukrainians as Nazi apologists and neo-fascists. Neither are wholly right or wrong in their respective assessments. The Russians are unapologetic and even pugnacious in remembering that terrible war and their terrible loses. So too are the Ukrainians, unapologetic and belligerent in their demands that their ancestors too were heroes fighting a just cause. I can easily see both people’s perspectives and make sense of their arguments… but the problem is that their governments cynically use their people’s deeply felt sympathies to bolster and consolidate their own respective power, by tweaking patriotic and nationalist basic human proclivities. And by insisting that we were/are the “good” guys, and they are the “bad’ guys!

    That’s what governments do.

    As you often point out, the Jewish people are not congenitally a uniquely cursed or blessed people. But their religious leaders might tell them so, in order to bolster the power and influence of those religious (or political) leaders. And Israeli politicians are not above doing what Hitler did, and scapegoating an entire race of people as the fount of all their problems in the world. It’s what governments (and their media whores) do.

    So yea, the Americans do suffer under the delusion that their government is uniquely “good”, because just like the Ukrainians and Russians and Israeli Jews and Syrians and every body else, they look inside their own hearts and see nothing but goodness. And so when they hear their governments tell them that these evil people have attacked us, because they’re evil! – they tend to believe it because they know themselves to be good. And so this tragicomedy gets played like a broken record over the eons of time.

    We never learn to distrust all so-called authority, and decide for ourselves what’s right and what’s wrong. Instead we contract that stuff out to a higher authority. Religion and government or charismatic cult leaders. Any by doing so, we reap a bitter harvest.

    There’s a temptation to blame the stupid, venal and self-absorbed Americans for the crimes of our government. And I too feel great frustration at their resistance to think for themselves. But this phenomena is not unique to only Americans. And I would point out that in all the recent presidential elections, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate, (only to be betrayed).

    So I see the folly of the koolaid drinkers to be a human phenomena, and not a uniquely American phenomena. In the last century the Russians, the Germans, the Japanese, the Brits, the Italians, the Spanish, the French, the Israelis, the Saudis, and so many other peoples were similarly marching off to slaughter ‘others’ who had wronged them somehow, as it was explained to them by their governments. I just hope and pray that this century don’t look like the last one, when it’s all said and done.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  62. Rurik says:
    @Harry Huntington

    Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes

    but then what would the West do?

    Putin would have to arrange with the West that once the wicked witch was dispatched, that they’d know they could all finally be free to pursue their destinies

    imagine the collective sigh that the world would gasp

    it would be like the death of Sauron

    Frodo as Putin, Sam as the West, reaching out to his brother who just freed mankind

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acTlEucunRY

    the dispersing orcs as the neocons and head slicers of ISIS

    all the expressions of the wizard and king and hobbits.. it’s too perfect

  63. KA says:
    @Ron Unz

    One wonders what they would to Iranians or Russian? One thing is sure NYT and Guradian or MSNBC will not disappoint Mr Hain .

    “In 2007, the senior British official responsible for the sanctions, Carne Ross, known as “Mr. Iraq”, told a parliamentary selection committee, “[The US and UK governments] effectively denied the entire population a means to live.” When I interviewed Carne Ross three years later, he was consumed by regret and contrition. “I feel ashamed,” he said. He is today a rare truth-teller of how governments deceive and how a compliant media plays a critical role in disseminating and maintaining the deception. “We would feed [journalists] factoids of sanitised intelligence,” he said, “or we’d freeze them out.” Last year, a not untypical headline in the Guardian read: “Faced with the horror of Isis we must act.” The “we must act” is a ghost risen, a warning of the suppression of informed memory, facts, lessons learned and regrets or shame. The author of the article was Peter Hain, the former Foreign Office minister responsible for Iraq under Blair. In 1998, when Denis Halliday revealed the extent of the suffering in Iraq for which the Blair Government shared primary responsibility, Hain abused him on the BBC’s Newsnight as an “apologist for Saddam”. In 2003, Hain backed Blair’s invasion of stricken Iraq on the basis of transparent lies. At a subsequent Labour Party conference, he dismissed the invasion as a “fringe issue”.

    Here was Hain demanding “air strikes, drones, military equipment and other support” for those “facing genocide” in Iraq and Syria. This will further “the imperative of a political solution”. The day Hain’s article appeared, Denis Halliday and Hans Von Sponeck happened to be in London and came to visit me. They were not shocked by the lethal hypocrisy of a politician, but lamented the enduring, almost inexplicable absence of intelligent diplomacy in negotiating a semblance of truce. Across the world, from Northern Ireland to Nepal, those regarding each other as terrorists and heretics have faced each other across a table. Why not now in Iraq and Syria? Instead, there is a vapid, almost sociopathic verboseness from Cameron, Hollande, Obama and their “coalition of the willing” as they prescribe more violence delivered from 30,000 feet on places where the blood of previous adventures never dried. They seem to relish their own violence and stupidityso much they want it to overthrow their one potentially valuable ally, the government in Syria.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/17/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried/

    • Replies: @5371
  64. Randal says:
    @Harry Huntington

    Now that would be horizontal escalation, in spades.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  65. Kiza says:
    @Rurik

    Yes, it is useful to hold a mental picture of the US Government as the death cult in the service of Greater Israel and to contrast today’s Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  66. Kiza says:
    @Randal

    Horizontal escalation in more meanings than one.

  67. […] is a depressingly insightful analysis of what the Neocons have gotten us into in […]

  68. @Quartermaster

    Congratulation on your promotion to GS-15. I’m glad you’re here, because we don’t get enough of the party line from the government’s acknowledged spokesmen.

  69. Kiza says:

    Check out how USAF has painted one of its F18s stationed at Incirlik in the Russian Airforce colors. This is ostensibly for training purposes, to get its pilots used to the enemy’s (Russian) colors. However, it just happens that Kerry the Clown was asking the White Helmets for the videos of the Russian Airforce attacks on hospitals and civilian buildings.

    An F18 in the Russian Airforce colors, together with the well trained out USAF attacks on hospitals in Afghanistan and elsewhere, perfect for a nice photo-op false-flag in Aleppo.

    The image of F18 in the Russian war colors originated from Liveleaks.

    More info on Moon of Alabama: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/is-the-us-preparing-a-false-flag-bombing-in-syria.html

  70. @Randal

    So this massive network of thousands of miles of rail that is connecting China with Central Asia all the way on to Germany: that couldn’t be used to move soldiers for an occupation?

    With European countries having laughable ground forces, and pathetic militaries generally, what is to stop China from moving its troops into Europe or into Syria if it so choose, even soon?

    • Replies: @Randal
  71. @bluedog

    Just a note about the probability of European countries and the USA remaining close friends and allies: with massive demographic and cultural changes in the USA (turning Mexican mestizo) and Europe (turning Muslim slowly but surely), it is foolish to expect that people on both sides of the Pond will feel loyalty, affection, and commonality with each other. Many of the white people in all the countries may feel that way, as they should, but few others will.

    Specifically, the growing Muslim electorate in France, Germany, the UK, Sweden, and Denmark will demand distance from, and eventually open hostility against, the USA. And they will get it unless nonmuslims there grow some balls.

  72. 5371 says:
    @KA

    The repellent Hain became famous as an opponent of apartheid in South Africa.

    • Replies: @KA
  73. @Harry Huntington

    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea…why should Putin do that? My impression is he’s somewhat pro-Jewish and has tried to maintain reasonably good relations with Israel (not without at least some success…iirc Israel didn’t support a UN resolution condemning the annexation of Crimea back in 2014).
    Besides, doesn’t Israel have at least limited second strike capability via its nuclear armed submarines?

    • Replies: @Randal
    , @Rurik
    , @Kiza
  74. Randal says:
    @German_reader

    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea…why should Putin do that?

    Well he either intended it as tongue in cheek or was being hopelessly optimistic (from his presumed point of view), but the rationale behind doing it would be that Russia would be recognising what is really important to many of those driving the US’s absurdly aggressive foreign policies, especially in the ME.

    It’s a fair point, as far as that goes.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  75. KA says:
    @5371

    That’s not unexpected .
    He must have found out the opportunity of self advancement in speaking for the blacks when it was clear to him that the regime would collapse from sanction, He is not alone .Darfur and S Sudan advanced the carrer and Rwanda did as well for so many moral arriviste carpetbaggers . These are moral equivalent of low hanging fruit .
    Easy to satisfy the crying liberal charming psychopath who reside in think tanks and TV spin room or Bono and his ilk who would then sing a song along with other activist celebrities paving the way for creation of new Darfur and S Sudan on their journey to next stop. ( we celebrate Bono and trash Dixie Chick)
    Didn’t Samantha Power become famous by denouncing something which then she perfected and unleashed on other countries?

  76. Randal says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Getting them to the Russian western border might in theory be possible under the cover of Russian air defences, though even just that would strain Chinese and Russian logistics. But getting them deep into Europe against NATO air interdiction would be costly and probably impossible on any sustained basis. Getting them to Syria would be pretty much impossible considering US naval and air dominance.

    And of course moving a big bunch of troops in is only the first step. Once they are there you’ve got to defend them and supply them, and command them effectively, if they are to be more than big fat useless targets. Modern armies don’t live off the land like old style mercs.

    Numbers alone are not all that significant.

    As for useless European militaries, bear in kind that the European (meaning non-US) NATO countries alone (even without the elephant in the global room that is the US’s colossal military spend) collectively spend three times as much annually on the military as Russia and still probably more than China. They might be useless for projecting force effectively in global terms, but they’re going to inflict a lot of hurt on anyone trying to invade. Backed up by US forces and resupply, there’s no force on Earth currently that could successfully invade and hold land in the heart of Europe, imo. The old massed Soviet armoured breakthrough and motorised forces that could have done it are long gone.

  77. @Randal

    I doubt that Putin regards Israel as that central…I’ve seen nothing to indicate that he’s obsessed with it like some commenters around here are (of course some of the more deranged Jewish-American neoconservatives would probably claim Putin’s an antisemite but their views have only a tenuous connection to reality). My impression is he even regards relations with Israel – which after all has many citizens hailing from the former USSR – as potentially useful to Russia so I can’t imagine a direct strike against Israel would be his preferred option. Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.
    Of course, all of this is speculation…hopefully it will stay that way.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Randal
  78. Rurik says:
    @Kiza

    contrast today’s Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?

    the Jews who own and control our media in America liked the world wars, but they didn’t like the Viet Nam war. It was (putatively) a war against communism, and Jews invented and like communism. So they used their bullhorn and showed images of bloody soldiers on stretchers and coffins draped with flags coming home on the nightly news every night in America’s living rooms during the Vietnam war. How many images of the Iraq war have Americans seen on network or even cable TV? Almost none.

    The one video that’s been seen (by a tiny few) has resulted in the man who leaked it getting a 35 year prison term.

    There is an iron dome over what Americans are privy to. If the Jews showed a tiny fraction of the wars today that they showed on the nightly news in the sixties, these wars would have ended long ago. And that’s the point. That’s why after Abu Gharib, the word went out, no pictures or videos unless you want a court martial or worse.

    We are lied to 24/7. Lies about Kuwaiti incubators, lies about 911, lies about Saddam’s WMD and ties to 911, lies about Assad’s chemical attack, lies about Russia committing atrocities, it’s all lies all day every day. And Americans just can’t even begin to imagine just how bad it really is. If they did, they’d turn into this guy…

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @Stonehands
  79. Rurik says:
    @German_reader

    why should Putin do that?

    because the world is being driven to the brink of all out nuclear war

    and at some point, the charade has to end.

    anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh

    So what the commenter is suggesting is that Putin simply do the obvious. That time honored strategy of pointing the shotgun barrel at the rich guy who hired all the gunslingers and saying with with the cold, steely blue-eyed gaze of a man without even a hint of bluff, (so that he knows) – ‘OK, they may kill me, but you get it first… in the guts’. And then Bibi stares down the double barrels, knowing that Putin isn’t bluffing, and says ‘Ok boys, let him go this time’.

    Because if you point the gun at the guy in charge, then he can (and will) order all his thugs to back off.

    It’s just that simple.

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
  80. “Russia is hopelessly outgunned by the US/NATO, at least in quantitative terms.”

    We had that same discussion in the ’80s with the “we can have swarms of F-5s for the cost of a couple squadrons of F-15s and F16s” debate. We went with the F-15s and F-16s because they were the air superiority fighter of their day, but we went exclusively with them because there was a lot more graft to be had in procuring a few of those systems than with having a bunch of the el-cheap F-5s to round out the inventory.

    Quantitatively, the Russians are a a fair match … Qualitatively remains to be seen. The US is relying heavily (critically) on the qualitative, not the Quantitative.

  81. Rurik says:
    @German_reader

    Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.

    an invasion of the Baltic states?

    my God man you’re clueless

    there’s nothing on this planet that would be more monumentally stupid for Putin to do than for him to prove all the neocons right that he’s a new Hitler. And for what? To earn the well-deserved hatred of the entire world? To make enemies of the entire planet?!

    You’re delusional if you think Putin has any designs or intentions of invading anyone. It is the Zio-West that is fomenting wars all over the place. It is the Zio-West that destabilized Ukraine with a coup and installed their quislings. The phone calls are even recorded and on the Internet!

    >>sigh<<

    I just don't understand how someone could have lingered around the Unz Review for this long as still be so utterly lost.

  82. Randal says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t think anybody would regard it as a serious option, despite the fact that the underlying rationale, in isolation, is clearly correct. Clearly Israel is hugely influential in US media and politics, especially foreign policy, and it’s obvious that influence tends to encourage military aggression, especially in the ME. Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s simple observable fact.

    There are plenty of other factors involved that make it unrealistic, though.

  83. @Randal

    “Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s simple observable fact. ”

    I agree though I don’t think it’s the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence (as shown by US/UK support for the Saudis’ war in Yemen; and of course the Gulf monarchies are among the main supporters of the Islamists in Syria).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Randal
  84. @German_reader

    Let’s assume that you and your German co-ethnic buddies live in China and are running a huge enterprise to hijack that country’s foreign policy for the benefit of Germany. You would start recruiting Chinese, contribute to Chinese politicians (in fact, almost half the money sent by corrupt oligarchs to Chinese politicians would be coming from you and your German buddies), then there might be a slow selection process, where you and your German buddies would be paying the most pro-German (therefore, on average, most spineless, less ethno-nationalistic, less self-respecting) politicians the most, and so slowly move the politics in that country in a pro-German direction, so that eventually China would be dominated by pro-German Chinese politicians.

    Knowing human nature, ceteris paribus, how would these hypothetical pro-German Chinese politicians compare to Chinese politicians before or without German influence? Would they, perchance, be a bit more corrupt (and therefore corruptible by other ethnic lobbies, too)? Almost by definition these pro-German Chinese politicians would have Chinese interests less at heart than your garden variety Chinese politicians.

    It’s obvious that many Chinese businessmen would be complicit in this (especially if they had otherwise good business relations with you and your German co-ethnics), because spineless and corruptible politicians might be good for them. But, the crucial thing is, they alone wouldn’t spend that much effort in it, because they would only be in it for the money, therefore they wouldn’t be sacrificing significant chunks of their fortunes (the way an Adelson or a Haim Saban is willing to do) only to make the Chinese political class more corrupt and spineless. So the whole project would hang on your (and your German co-ethnic buddies’) enthusiasm and fanatical ethnocentrism.

    So yes, probably Chinese politicians would be corrupted by other powers, too (for example the Dutch, or the Japanese, or the Russians, or whoever is willing to do so), as well as ethnically Chinese oligarchs, but it wouldn’t mean that they were the root cause of the problem.

    (Having said that, of course it’s silly to suggest that bombing Israel would free the world like the death of Sauron… Just as our hypothetical China wouldn’t become magically free after Germany was destroyed by a nuclear strike, instead, it would be – on your and your German co-ethnic buddies’ prodding – furiously working to retaliate. Obviously the Jewish lobby is not working from Israel, and in a lot of sense the Israeli politicians might also be at least partly beholden to the same Jewish oligarchs working from the US, though with the crucial difference that they are bred to be more or less ethno-nationalists, and in that sense probably less corruptible and spineless than other Western politicians. But knowing that Israel was in danger might concentrate the minds of the craziest warmongers in the US.)

    • Replies: @Rurik
  85. @Ron Unz

    You’re doing the good work here, this is a fantastic site (even if I don’t agree on important issues with probably a majority of columnists/commentators here – well, they don’t agree with each other, but that’s nothing to worry about), and I think it has had a huge effect already.

    I’d really be happy if members of the American Regime came to their senses (I mean the oligarchs, not the spineless politicians), as I really don’t wish for a violent revolution. But they might be stupid enough to provoke their own most violent demise…

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  86. Avery says:
    @schmenz

    Sure is.
    Evil genius.
    The Reptiles are are vile, but you have to give it to them: clever MOFERS.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  87. Rurik says:
    @reiner Tor

    of course it’s silly to suggest that bombing Israel would free the world like the death of Sauron

    hey!

    are you contradicting me?!

    😉

    yes, it’s silly

    but just imagine if the ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Israel, and all the diaspora Zionists and assorted Jewish supremacists the world over knew that Israel was the target of Russian nukes at the first sign of a NATO strike against Russia, how reluctant that would make them to bomb Russia or her assets in Syria.

    What the world needs is a reverse Samson Option, so that if the Zionists try to foist another world war on the West (including Russia, as I consider her a part of the West) then they’d know what’s in store for Israel.

    To free mankind – Putin would need to bomb the Fed and do surgical strikes in Zurich and Paris and London and NYC and DC and Sydney and Moscow and Berlin and everywhere else the minions were scurrying in the crevices

    Rather impractical to be sure. May your chains rest lightly

  88. @reiner Tor

    You wrote: “…As I really don’t wish for a violent revolution.”

    OMG, I dream sweet dreams about bloody Revolution! It’s our only way out of this mess…there is no other way.

  89. @Avery

    Hmm…maybe I’m getting you mixed up wit someone else. I read another of your posts in another thread…you keep using the term “the Reptiles”, what are you talking about? You’re not one of those David “I-am-Jesus-H-Christ” Icke followers are you?

    • Replies: @Avery
  90. @German_reader

    It’s actually the last 50 years German Reader.

    Our leaders have been corrupted by the sexual revolution, they are all now quite immoral.

    Read the stuff about Trump on Zerohedge, it is something we have known for quite a while, rich powerful men can have whatever they want, women throw themselves at the powerful and they feel no reason to restrain themselves.

    We are the shameless generation………….we feel no shame no matter the size of the indulgence or lie.

    Read the “Obscured American” a woman has a child without a father. Women without thought destroy their own unborn babies. The media blatantly lie and distort not in the service of truth but for politics. Children are molested, etc, etc.

    There is no end to the evil of this generation, and the only thing that is missing is voices raised in condemnation.

    This won’t end here, the moral decline of the west is leading to destruction. The leaders we now get are the worst of men and women, not the best.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  91. Kiza says:
    @Rurik

    I was a teenager during the US War on Vietnam. I know that US MSM were always more “liberal” than “conservative” and that “liberal” is a code word for Jewish/Zionist, but I was not aware that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this. I intend to do a bit of reading to try and establish how much this was the case. Your point is credible, based on other things I know, but I want to know if this was the dominant factor in this totally opposite MSM attitude between a war neutral or disliked by the Zionists (as you say) and the contemporary US wars which are definitely for the benefit of the Zionists.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the “liberal” MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now. It is an apex of cynicism when you initiate wars to kill and ethnically cleanse the people who stand in the way of your territorial expansion and then you also hugely profit from it. It is patriotism which pays.

    The remainder of the US people have lost control over their own country and the best they know is to try emulate the Zionists and use the US Rent-an-Army to bomb their ethnic opponents as well. Peace can come to the World only when the US end up decentralised, which is the way the things are going.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  92. @Randal

    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist’s hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren’t like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist’s lusting to destroy them.

  93. @Rurik

    “anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh”

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?

    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever. The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.

  94. Kiza says:
    @German_reader

    I do remember you from before, you are a s**t steerer with an attractive handle.

    Regarding the second strike capability, I am not an expert in submarine warfare, but I know that you are on the wrong path. Israeli nuclear missile submarines are German-made diesel-electrical, which means they cannot remain underwater for a long time, which means they are detectable by the advanced array of sensors that US and Russia have and China is building. Detectable means destroyable. Therefore, the Israeli nuclear missile submarines are a match for anything in the ME, possibly even for what Europe can field, but they would not be a match for the Russian capability.

    Finally, I did not consider the original proposition to be practical, but I thought just like Rurik that it had the merit of a new point of view. And it does not need to be done in a way of a direct threat. The best would be if a Russian nuclear target list, containing multiple Israeli targets, got accidentally leaked out. I never heard of a cowboy shooting the tail of a risen rattle-snake first instead of the head.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  95. Avery says:
    @Anonymous Smith

    I have no idea WhoTF ‘David “I-am-Jesus-H-Christ” Icke’ is.

    I use the term ‘reptile’ to denote a non-human: a cold-blooded creature.
    There was a TV series called ‘V’ a while back.
    The aliens appeared as humans, but were some kind of reptiles/lizards in reality.

    They came to Earth to enslave humans, but had to assume human form so humans would let their guard down. (Even before ‘V’, there was the classic “Body Snatchers” (the original B&W). )

    The ‘V’ were shape-shifters: every so often they’d shed the human form and you could see the scales of the lizards/reptiles that they were.

    I use the term ‘reptiles’ in reference to these cold-blooded things (aka Neocons), because they cannot possibly be human. They enjoy bloodbath of humans: it is not normal; it is sick. But if one is a reptile, then it is not abnormal to kill humans: it is in their nature.

    Of course I don’t really mean they are aliens from space, but can’t think of any other way to describe them: one can’t be a normal human being who loves murdering people who have done them no wrong. One can’t be a normal human being who enjoys death and destruction just for the sake of it.

    ‘one of those …. followers are you?’

    Nope: I follow no one, but my own mind.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  96. @Avery

    There are people, followers of David Icke, and others, who actually believe that many of our leaders are shapeshifting reptiles…I kid you not.

    Given this new information, you might want to rethink your use of the term, lest someone label you a crackpot.

    • Replies: @Avery
  97. @Pat the Rat

    Don’t blame the bitches, blame the events of 22nd Nov 1963

    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
  98. @Ron Unz

    Ron, didn’t know you are a drinking man. Glad to have you back.

  99. @Rurik

    Rurik, you can be a wealth of knowledge, but you lose all credibility if you think the nationalist Vietnam civil war was fought to save anyone from Jewish communism.
    It was the same old finance capitalists sowing chaos for profits, without any regard for something as archaic as “victory”.
    Our “putative” leaders breached the moral threshold long ago.. and are drunk on the rarified atmosphere beyond good and evil.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  100. Avery says:
    @Anonymous Smith

    Thanks for the info.
    If I think of a better word to describes these things, I will switch.
    But reptile will do for now, regardless of what someone thinks of me.
    I have to admit though, that these things are far worse than reptiles.
    Reptiles kill only to defend themselves or for food.
    These things murder simply for the pleasure of murdering.

  101. Randal says:
    @German_reader

    I agree though I don’t think it’s the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence

    I agree entirely.

    You could certainly make the same suggestion about Saudi Arabia with similar force, except that it would be something rather less taboo in US sphere political discussion circles, and so less refreshing to read. (Not entirely untaboo – it would still fall foul of the anti-racism/”islamophobia” taboo, but in my experience those generally are less vigorously enforced than the anti-“anti-Semitism”/criticism-of-Israel taboo, at least in supposedly conservative media circles.)

    It’s always refreshing to read a blunt assertion of a truth usually suppressed, even when (as in this case) it is put in the form of a kind of absurdist hyperbole.

  102. Randal says:
    @Pat the Rat

    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Yes, I agree that they certainly are, here. But that’s merely a small measure of balance against the ruthless suppression of any references to excess jewish or Israeli/Zionist “influence” in the wider mainstream media and politics of the US sphere. Careers have been destroyed merely for referring to this basic fact of US reality, and senior US politicians from past presidents to Pat Buchanan have referred to it openly (mostly before it became career suicide in politics to do so).

    But it’s not a matter of some overarching “jewish conspiracy”, at least as far as I’m concerned. The Israel lobby is just a bunch of very powerful people whose interests in influencing US foreign policy (in particular) generally coincide, and are dominated by issues other than US interests. Notoriously, of course, many of them are not jewish but rather various flavours of fringe Christians, though imo it’s as hard for jews in general to wholly escape a basic nationalist loyalty to the jewish state as it is for any of us to avoid loyalty to our own nation state, when push comes to shove.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!
    ….
    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist’s lusting to destroy them.

    That’s a good question, but the fact that Israel wants to see the Syrian government overthrown and is prepared to see the islamists and jihadists used to achieve that is not, I think, open to honest dispute.

    It was entirely understandable that Israel did not want to be publicly seen as backing the rebels. But we know that at the key point in 2013 when the Obama regime (honestly or not) was seeking US political approval for strikes on Syrian government forces that would certainly have achieved the same as they had in Libya in overthrowing the government and opening the country up to jihadists, the Israeli Likudniks’ main lobbying group in the US went “all out” to try to get backing for those strikes.

    AIPAC to go all-out on Syria

    More recently senior Israeli figures have been more open with their preference for even the worst of the sunni jihadists over the Syrian government:

    Israeli Intel Chief: We Don’t Want ISIS Defeated in Syria

    So in reality, the question is not: “does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?”, but rather: “why does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?”. That’s a complex question of strategic motivation, and clearly we don’t have access to all the information the Israeli government and military have used to reach that conclusion. Here’s my broad opinion as to the answer fwiw.

    Senior Israelis are over-focused on their longstanding enemies Hezbollah and Iran, for historical and emotive reasons, to the extent that it warps their reasoning. Their priority is breaking the link between these two, and they regard a sunni islamist victory in Syria, with the consequent likely bloody chaos throughout Syria, and with all the risks it clearly entails for the region, as being a price worth paying to achieve that.

    Presumably their thinking is that Golan is not vulnerable to attack by jihadist truck bombers anyway, and they can cope with islamist terrorists having free rein in Syria because it means they will have free rein to drone/air strike at will there, and it will guarantee US backing for Israeli military actions there in perpetuity. Meanwhile, they will look to settle with their bitter rival Hezbollah once its resupply routes through Syria have been broken. The destruction of Syria and pegging back of Hezbollah will be major blows against their main regional rival Iran.

    I don’t say I agree with this strategic thinking (as I noted, I think Israel’s elites, rather like the US’s elites, are not entirely rational on the topic of Iran and Hezbollah), but it’s the best I can come up with to explain what is a seemingly obviously counterproductive policy.

    • Replies: @tjm
  103. Erebus says:
    @Harry Huntington

    …if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel.

    I may have heard one better the other night in a pub discussion.

    Should the US unleash a swarm of Tomahawks from the mid-Med, or wherever, Russian EW specialists should focus on re-targetting them mid-flight… to Tel Aviv. A few to Riyadh would drive the message home.

    Imagine the pants wetting, spittle spewing, hair-on-fire hysteria in Washington… priceless.
    Too bad that the Kremlin seems to lack a sense of humour…

  104. @NoseytheDuke

    You mean the assassination of JFK?

    I looked up the date, Aldous Huxley and CS Lewis died on the same day.

    Interesting article about it here exploring various aspects of the three men:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/03/three-great-men-died-that-day-jfk-c-s-lewis-and-aldous-huxley.html

    Not sure how JFK’s assassination bears on my comments?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  105. Laguerre says:
    @Pat the Rat

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!

    Don’t be silly. You must be a hasbarist. Netanyahu has been following this policy since the beginning. Why would he be supporting and arming Jabhat al-Nusra on the Golan, if he did not approve of them?

  106. @Pat the Rat

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less.

    Well, here’s one opinion, from the mouth of ex-ambassador Oren. Israel has consistently bombed Assad forces but no other forces in Syria. They have given hospital treatment to “freedom fighters”.

    We also know that they helped Hamas (as opposition to Arafat) way back, and actually when Hamas won in Gaza, it was in part because Fatah didn’t receive much help from Israel, and Israel mostly blocked help from the West Bank to arrive in Gaza. I think for Israel it’s not very bad to have cannibals running their neighbors: nobody expects Israel to make peace with Hamas (though, having said that, some leftist lunatics still do…), or with ISIS. On the other hand, these cannibals are incapable of building nukes even with North Korean help, so they will be less of an actual threat, but more of nuisance (which is good since helps glue Israel’s Jewish population together). I’m not sure I agree with that train of thought, but it’s not totally irrational.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Anonymous
  107. @Pat the Rat

    Jews in the US are mostly non-religious (more so than other whites), but non-Christian religious people (for example Muslims) never bothered most leftists who are totally anti-religion only when it comes to Christianity. But yes, there are some Jew haters on the left, the fewer and farther between than you seem to imagine.

    Obama has ducked out of confrontation in Syria a few years ago, and is likely to do so again. I hope. But now with Hillary likely winning the elections… God save us all.

    Neocons are mostly (far from exclusively) Jewish crazies, but the most scary thing is not the Jewish part, but the crazy part. If they were simply openly Jewish supremacists, you could talk sense to them. But they are only implicitly doing things they think (or they bellyfeel) are “good for the Jews”, and they may actually be quite incorrect about that. You can’t really reason with them. Even less so since they have among their ranks a large number of crazy gentiles, too. Crazy people in power are dangerous. How can you reason with someone who thinks it’s a good idea to introduce transgender and female soldiers to the Navy Seals? I mean, they are so crazy they are destroying their own military…

    I wrote I hoped the oligarchs came to their senses because I think this level of craziness is actually bad for them, too. I cannot imagine it’ll turn out OK for them.

  108. @Kiza

    Israeli nuclear missile submarines are German-made diesel-electrical, which means they cannot remain underwater for a long time, which means they are detectable

    Diesel-electricals are actually less noisy than nuclear subs. So they might stay underwater for shorter periods of time, but while they are underwater, they are more difficult to detect.

  109. TJM says:
    @Pat the Rat

    Your out of your fucking mind!

    This has nothing to do with the “sexual revolution”, this has everything to do with Zionist and Jews.

    I worked with the Ron Paul campaign and the support from the gay community was everywhere.

    Your just parroting the divisive BS from the Zionist war machine, pathetic.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  110. tjm says:
    @Randal

    “Yes, I agree that they certainly are, here. But that’s merely a small measure of balance against the ruthless suppression of any references to excess jewish or Israeli/Zionist “influence” in the wider mainstream media and politics of the US sphere. Careers have been destroyed merely for referring to this basic fact of US reality, and senior US politicians from past presidents to Pat Buchanan have referred to it openly (mostly before it became career suicide in politics to do so).”

    Great comment, and right on the money. When you look at the US government actions and they apply to US interests, they would seem totally misdirected and counterproductive, but if you replace US interests, with Israeli, suddenly everything becomes crystal clear and precisely aligned.

  111. annamaria says:
    @colm

    Unfortunately you are correct:
    “This is why the Russians employed so many delaying tactics and why they have acted with such utmost caution: they are dealing with professional incompetent ideologues who simply do not play by the unwritten but clear rules of civilized international relations. This is what makes the current crisis so much worse than even the Cuban Missile Crisis: one superpower has clearly gone insane.”

  112. annamaria says:
    @Quartermaster

    A full circle. The US has joined Al Qaeda in Syria.
    The US-waged War on Terror, which had started 15 years ago, was proclaimed then as a war against Al Qaeda. How come that the US military servicemen are fighting on a side of Al Qaeda today? In other words, how come that the US government has joint Al Qaeda in a fight against the sovereign state of Syria? This is a nice question for Obama/Clinton team. The Q and A should be widely televised.
    General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
    “Taking countries” has produced nothing but rivers of blood, mounds of flesh, and the unspeakable sufferings for the Middle East populations. US became Al Qaeda.

  113. Rurik, you forgot Hollywood. (“Hollywood” used as an identifier of state- and elite- run organized disinformation; guvmint calls this process “educating the populace” ).

    So did the Saker; his analysis covered military SWOT but neglected the propaganda war — “Information war” as David Ensor identified it here https://www.c-span.org/video/?402678-1/discussion-international-broadcasting

    Ensor is a former director of Voice of America; he is incensed that “Putin’s Russia” vastly outspends USA in the “information war,” and that Russian state-sponsored RT is “all lies,” including, presumably, the RT – Crosstalk video Saker linked

    Propagandizing the masses was one of the several innovations that made WWI possible and so bloody.

    In an article a few weeks ago Ron Unz informed UF readers (may Unz numbers grow – MUNG) that the British conducted a massive propaganda campaign to “educate” the American people on the need to enter a war against Germany (at a time when Bolsheviks were killing Ukrainians and Russian kulaks by the millions).
    They were successful; that’s the power of propaganda.

    “There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it.”Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.
    They were successful; that’s the power of propaganda.

    Hollywood played a major role in all of those campaigns; according to Cora Sol Goldstein, the Hollywood – Washington collaboration in war propaganda created Hollywood as the prosperous purveyor of pop-culture and propaganda that it is.

    PS. To echo so many C Span callers, Thank goodness for C Span!! They are fair and balanced!! This morning, while Unz readers are wasting their time scouring alternative media for news about whether Ash Carter will go full rogue and drop nuclear weapons on Aleppo, C Span devoted its 3-hour morning show to Donald Trump’s “vulgar, vile, obscene, misogynistic” comments caught on tape 15 years ago.

    US provoking a nuclear war with Russia? You didn’t hear it on C Span Washington Journal, and if you had the temerity to call in and bring the topic to the attention of the C Span audience, the C Span moderator will cut short or divert from your comment.

  114. @reiner Tor

    reiner Tor — are there really “cannibals” and “head choppers” among ISIS?

    How can we believe anything, at all, when we learn that the Pentagon Using Private Contractors To Create Anti-ISIS Themed Fake News A Department of Defense official confirmed the digital warfare tactics and that a British PR firm had been paid $540 million by the US military to produce infomercials and fake news in Iraq.

    Israel frequently boasts that it is the most sophisticated of users of social media. How did ISIS go from cave-dweller to masters of social media?
    Arabs are tagged as the most backward and chronically disorganized of people. How did they go from camel-herders to drivers of Toyota pickups, in so short a time?

    What’s a fella to believe?

  115. annamaria says:
    @reiner Tor

    “I’m sure it’s a case of bad groupthink, these guys (and gals) live in an intellectual bubble.”

    Intellectual bubble? No, no… You give them too much credit. The zionist plutocratic system has been selecting the bestest opportunists for the upper echelon of the US government. The results show: The “echelon” makes the most spectacular collection of the incompetent. Just look at Mike Morell and Sam Power and do not forget Feith, “the dumbest fucking guy on the planet” (in the words of the General Tommy Franks.) By the way, Doug Feith (a dedicated Israel-firster) was trusted with a special task of weeding out the experienced military specialists in Arab culture in order to eliminate any competent influence of the decisions that led eventually to the ongoing Middle East tragedy. The infestation of the US government with zionists went hand-in-hand with lowering the intellectual level of the upper echelon of the US government. Though stupid obnoxiousness went through the roof.

  116. schmenz says:
    @Pat the Rat

    “Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!”

    Hello Pat:

    Actually, this is nothing new and has historical precedents. When Isabella was trying to reclaim Spanish lands stolen and ransacked by the Muslims back in the 15th century the local Jewish population was helping them and working treasonously against the Crown.

    There is nothing new under the sun.

  117. @utu

    oops — read Rurik’s analogy, Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism
    more closely. It’s not quite right in that Bolsheviks did not actively create Nazism, whereas Zionists definitely had a hand in creating Hamas.

    ALTHOUGH — on third thought — The Deborah Lipstadt brigade wants to keep “revisionists” sniffing around for gas chambers and getting put in jail for challenging the sacred number.

    I guess I watched too many Colombo programs: putting on a shabby trench coat and smoking a cigar automatically tunes you into the fact that the guilty party is trying to distract you from the real scene of the crime by challenging the legitimacy of clues at the false scene of the crime.
    If revisionists stay focused on Auschwitz, they won’t investigate the real Allied crimes that were hatched by FDR, Bernard Baruch, Brandeis-Frankfurter-Morgenthau, Churchill, etc. They are totally unrelated to some Hollywood concoction tagged holocaust; it’s not just the few details that Revisionists challenge but the whole holocaust narrative that is bogus.
    It may just be the case that Hitler was a tool of the Anglo Zionists just as Saddam and bin Laden were; once they’d served their purpose, they were eliminated (the Hitler case was a tad more complicated, but the masses of anti-Hitler propaganda that are still dumped on the sheeple broadly suggests that there is some huge, huge truth — bigger even than the 9/11 coverup — that the unwashed must not ever be permitted to discover.

    It may well be that “Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism”
    —> Zionists created Hamas just as Zionists created Nazism.

    I listened to this talk, by Jeremy Black, https://www.c-span.org/video/?407529-1/dwight-d-eisenhower-cold-war , while wearing a shabby trench coat and smoking a cigar. Black argues that the USA began the Cold War — began waging war on Bolsheviks — his term — in WWI, and that “WWII was an interruption in that anti-Bolshevik campaign,” which USA took up again in 1945.
    Black made the obligatory comment about Hitler: “to call Hitler ‘mad’ is to insult mad people everywhere . . .”
    I think I learned in Psych 101 that unless Pavlov’s dog is randomly reinforced, it will stop salivating when the bell is rung.
    otoh, I didn’t do so well in Psych 101: I don’t remember what happens when the mutt is over-reinforced: does it explode? Does it go mad and bite the hand that feeds it?

  118. geokat62 says:

    Late breaking news:

    Key Neocon Calls on US to Oust Putin

    Exclusive: A prominent neocon paymaster, whose outfit dispenses $100 million in U.S. taxpayers’ money each year, has called on America to “summon the will” to remove Russian President Putin from office, reports Robert Parry.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/07/key-neocon-calls-on-us-to-oust-putin/

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @bluedog
  119. Rurik says:
    @Kiza

    that “liberal” is a code word for Jewish/Zionist

    not always I don’t think Kiza. Unless you follow with ‘media’, as in liberal [Jewish] media.

    but I know lots of liberals who aren’t Jews. They just take their marching order from Jews by way of NYT and NPR and other organs of Jewish supremacism. It works well because the liberals are too stupid to know they’re even being led by the nose by white [Jewish] supremacists.

    War on Vietnam…. … US MSM … … Jewish/Zionist, … … that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this

    Yes, Jewish all the way. Pro-commie.

    Look at how the Jewish NYT published the Pentagon Papers, and were very much anti-war at the time, but now today can’t get enough wars for Israel.

    Remember Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin? Remember Alan Ginsburg and Ira Einhorn? If these guys were around today they’d be all for the wars on Iraq and Syria.

    Think David Horowitz. In the sixties he was an anti-Vietnam war radical. And now today that the US is bombing Muslim countries inconvenient to Israel into smoking rubble, he couldn’t be more thrilled about the wars.

    Or consider the entire neocon movement. They started out as liberals and Trotskyists, but then when it came to wars in the Middle East, then >>poof<<, suddenly they realized they were "conservatives!" and war mongers on acid.

    but also it's important not to paint Jews with too broad a brush. Seymour Hersh was against the Vietnam war and he's been against all the contrived wars for fun and profit since. One of my personal heroes, Carl Sagan was also against the Vietnam war and remained very much anti-war his entire life. Saying correctly that "War is murder writ large".

    But there can be no doubt that Jews for the most part were virulently against the Vietnam war, whereas today as a group, seem perfectly sanguine over the wars today in the Middle East (to benefit Israel). Indeed, as Donald Trump calls for an "America first" movement, the Jews of the world seem almost apoplectic at that expression. Calling him an 'anti-Semite' for daring to put any nation above Israel.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the “liberal” MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now.

    that Jews have owed our media since the beginning of the 20th century is evidenced by the fact that Lord Balfour promised them Palestine if they (the Jews) would bring the US into WWI on behalf of England. Their ownership and influence of the newspapers was that great, that they could simply change the opinions of America vis-a-vis war on a whim.

    The Jews don’t own the MIC outright like they own the MSM. That those two mega-power’s interests often dovetail (Eternal War for Israel) – is the doom of the planet.

  120. IA says:
    @Pat the Rat

    I agree. Looking at what the Dems have done in the past 8 years it’s so obvious it’s a war on family formation. The pajama boy ad, especially, marked a new level of subversion of normal [white] male behavior. White men better find their balls, fast.

  121. @geokat62

    I don’t know how unshakeable Putin’s position is (I’d guess it’d be near impossible to remove him until he’s so popular), but that sounds like insanity to me.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @geokat62
  122. Rurik says:
    @Pat the Rat

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?

    they’ve said as much

    they’ve said they’d prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?

    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

    no

    Obama is a tool. He’s been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel’s behalf. So if you’re looking for your Rapture, Obama’s just the ticket. (ironic isn’t it?)

    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they’re willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel’s behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to ‘the Jews’.

    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.

    it isn’t religion that they hate. It’s white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they’d hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

    you’re out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it’s all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.

    don’t you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world’s Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying “Merry Christmas”?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ’s eternal fate?

    check it out. There’s a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world’s religious Jews, they haven’t quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

  123. Rurik says:
    @Stonehands

    but you lose all credibility if you think the nationalist Vietnam civil war was fought to save anyone from Jewish communism.

    I know that most, if not all the putative “justifications” for the war on Viet Nam were lies, sure.

    but most, if not all the men who enlisted- did so because they believed those lies.

    Sort of the way Pat Tillman believed the lies about 911

    So most of the men who were fighting it, did actually believe that they were fighting to protect America’s freedoms from the commies.

    But just as with all of Americas myriad wars, and especially the ones going on today; it was all lies and greed and treachery and rich war pigs getting richer while poor men got ripped apart.

    “If any question why we died, Tell them, because our fathers lied”

    ~ Rudyard Kipling

  124. DaveE says:
    @Rurik

    Great posts, Rurik. Said so much better than I ever could.

    I’d just like to say, though, that Jewish hatred of whites is only partially habitual. They’ve sort-of gotten used to the idea that the WASP will always be on top, because they (we) were for so long.

    But I venture to surmise that if the Puerto Ricans or Aborigines occupied so many of the top slots in our culture over the last century, Jewish hated of Puerto Ricans would be off-the-charts.

    They simply can’t stand that they’ve had 3,500 years to take over the world and are STILL not even close to being worshiped as the G_d’s they think they are. (More like devils, in fact, but I digress…..)

  125. Avery says:
    @reiner Tor

    As Russian nationalists go, Putin is quite middle of the road and very restrained. There are several younger people far more nationalist, and who would not be as restrained as Putin.

    You are right it is insanity.

    But humans in general have a blind spot: what they have not experienced personally is not real.
    A big problem with these insane people is that they live in America.
    America has never experienced a total, devastating war on its mainland*, so all that death and destruction is an abstraction. Before the nuclear age, US was well protected by the oceans. No country in the world could invade and occupy her. But things are very different now. These insane people are playing with fire. Nobody knows how far things will go once the first nuke is launched either deliberately or accidentally.

    [World’s Most Powerful Nuclear Bomb – Tsar Bomba]

    Who knows how many Tsar Bombas Russians have in kits, ready to be assembled and delivered?
    Just a couple of weeks ago, Russians conducted a massive civil defense drill, involving 10s of millions of people. They are clearly preparing for the worst case scenario.

    God help us all.

    —-
    * excepting the Civil war.

  126. @Rurik

    The other day C Span called upon Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the current president of the National Education Association (NEA) to tell us why/how Trump is a “terrible role model for our children.” “We have received reports of increased bullying in our public schools, by students who are wearing Trump T-shirts, or who quote Trump!”

    Googling for some background on NEA’s Eskelsen Garcia, this popped up:

    http://neajac.org/Happy%20summer%20all%20Jewish%20Affairs%20Caucus%20Members.pdf

    Happy summer all Jewish Affairs Caucus Members,

    Many of us just returned from the NEA-RA in Denver. This year 7000 delegates represented your voice.
    The JAC met each day and I wanted to share some of the discussions.
    1. There were comments in regard to VP Becky Pringle’s invocation. After I return from vacation, I will be corresponding with NEA leadership on the topic-it was a bit religious in nature.
    2. There was discussion about the not for profit booth. We decided to continue it next year probably moving toward a T-shirt idea. However, it was quite obvious that the amount of purchasing in the not for profits was on a decline. With fewer delegates at the RA the booth would be more to have a presence and get out the message that we exist and less about making large sums of money.
    3. In the coming months I will contact ADL, AIPAC etc to consider exhibiting next year in Orlando for the upcoming NEA RA.
    4. Charlie, reelected treasurer for the millionth time, is going to find out the addresses of the three teens killed in Israel for a tree donation from JAC. As you know, Israel is in a crisis again and all of us are watching the news each day.
    5. Patrick, re-elected Secretary of the JAC, and Rae, former chair, headed the object to consideration about a NBI [??] regarding the Middle East. The caucus did not want to open a can of worms. They received a lot of help from other members of the caucus. Our sentiments were upheld.
    6. Charlie and JR met with the Peace and Justice Caucus numerous times. Plans for joint activities are underway. Each caucus chair intends to write the leadership about the lack of communication (no notices in any printed or electronic publication) and the lack of meeting space.
    7. Charlie and JR also met with the Maine delegation about the discontinuation of the student-retiree joint project before each RA. JR stood with the Maine delegate when she spoke to the budget item and tried to introduce an amendment supporting the project. The NEA leadership cut it all anyway.
    8. Charlie, Patrick, Rae and JR attended the “wedding” of Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the newly elected President of the NEA. Pictures will follow on the website.
    9. Dues for all members (retired or active) will now be $25. Please, even if you can’t attend the RA, stay a member of the JAC by sending Charlie your $25.
    10. Marc Jones from California was elected Vice Chair.
    We had delegates join us from Illinois, California, Alaska, Michigan, Florida, Georgia, Texas, Utah, Oklahoma, Federal, Washington, Pennsylvania, Hawaii and Connecticut.

    These are the people that US taxpayers — and property owners — pay handsomely to teach our children.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  127. mcohen says:

    how is it that the low hanging fruit is left to last.the hurticane that is the middle east is constantly revolving in a clock wise motion.one war after another around and around it goes.as it churns away a banana smoothie is produced.add a little yogurt.some cream and the smoothie is ready to be suckled.bon ape a teat.as the french say .
    the go to refreshment of the wordpress keyboard warrior……..WKW

    the WKW much like its cousin the SJW is mostly an over 40 male trump like chappie.cheered on by

    the shaker
    sic tyrranis temper
    mondowondo
    moon of montana.
    infofartingho

    the wordpress brigade have one thing in common

    the constant attack on either the jews or the jew…you choose.a handy diversion for the masses.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  128. geokat62 says:
    @reiner Tor

    … but that sounds like insanity to me.

    You think that sounds insane. What did you make of this one:

    “We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran” – general at Joint Staff, as disclosed by former general, Wesley Clark

    While these statements sound insane to most people, they are de rigueur for the neocons. This latter statement was formulated by PNAC, cofounded by Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan. I think the neocon’s motto is: think big, or go home. They have openly declared that remaking the Middle East is one of their prime objectives. Their goal is to enhance the security of the villa in the jungle and the biggest threat to that security is something called the Shia Arc – Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. The problem they’re having in executing their goal is Putin’s Russia. You see, Russia, as a permanent member of UNSC, has a veto. And while they failed to exercise it to safeguard Gaddafi’s Libya, there are not prepared to make the same mistake, again. Therein lies the problem… and why Putin is regularly demonized in MSM. But if there is one thing the neocons are renowned for, it is persistence. Do you recall the redline Obama imposed on Assad? Well Putin stepped in an pulled his chestnuts out of that fire… something about which the neocons were not overly pleased.

    So, let’s just sit and watch how they manage to get the US and their NATO puppets to impose a No Fly Zone in Syria, without UNSC approval. I’m confident they’ll get Hillary to impose it within the first 90 days after taking office.

    The “insanity” has just begun.

  129. utu says:
    @Rurik

    “Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. ” – You can’t come up with a better explanation?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  130. utu says:
    @Rurik

    “The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.” – It’s more about Christianity than race.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  131. […] sito d’informazione The Unz, un’interessante articolo dell’analista The Saker evidenzia l’improvvisa […]

  132. nickels says:

    But……Hillary is a woman!!!

  133. annamaria says:
    @mcohen

    “…the constant attack on either the jews or the jew…”
    Let’s be clear.
    There are normal Jewish people that contribute to their fellow citizens and to the worls, and there are ziocons – the psychopathic neocons dreaming of Eretz Israel. The cream of the current ziocon powerhouse (the Lobby) is made of a progeny of the second-rate stock of East European shtettls: the quarrelsome, opportunistic, petty, obnoxious, intellectually-average kind represented in the US by Kristols, Daniel Pletka, Douglas Feith and such. They are noisy and veracious, and they want to look mighty. Eretz Israel is their mythological land of the bestest (“chosen”). To achieve their dream, the US ziocons have trumped the vital interests of their “adoptive” country (US) and pushed for the bloody wars of aggression against their tribe’s main enemies – the Arabs, particularly those Arabs who created the functioning states in the Middle East (see Iraq, Libya, and Syria). These wars are having consequences, including the enormous loss of life among the ME civilians of all ages and the floods of desperate “displaced persons.” As a result of these consequences, the West is approaching, acceleratingly, a moment of open backlash against the parasitic ziocons.
    The words “anti-Semitism” should be better replaced with a more precise word “anti-Zionism.”

  134. @German_reader

    “…As for elites in the US and many European countries,…”

    Here they are, right here on the Unz- the elites. After all it is the mind [Idea] which forms the world, not vice- versa.

  135. @TJM

    “…Your out of your fucking mind!….”

    Your lack of deeper- pattern thinking [ because jooooooos!!!! ] manifests itself in your gutter mouth and poor spelling.

  136. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    These are the people that US taxpayers — and property owners — pay handsomely to teach our children.

  137. @Rurik

    “The Jews don’t own the MIC outright like they own the MSM….’

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    …Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?

    Perhaps, like affirmative action, there should be intellectual reparations or a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  138. Sam J. says:
    @Harry Huntington

    Harry Huntington’s suggestion to target Israel is exactly what should be done.

    As Saker said,”…one superpower has clearly gone insane.
    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo…”

    The Jews run the US and the Jews are willing to fight down to the last American. So yes they’re all for nuclear war between Russia\China and the US. At the same time they nuke the Arabs and the Persians. It would take away all their enemies in one fell swoop. It would take away all those problems with the pesky 9-11 situation. Like building 7 that fell the same speed as a rock dropped in air. Like building 7 was only held up with air when it fell. We know the building wasn’t floating in air so we also know the bottom was demoed out from under it. It would take away all those problems of the Russians realizing that 66 million of their people were killed by the Jewish gulags.

    The pattern is the same. At one time the USSR was run by the Jews. They in turn became the evil aggressors of the planet. Now they have control of the US and we are the evil aggressors of the planet.

    The Jews are a tribe of psychopaths. They, while a little smarter than most humans, mostly rely on aggression and the knowledge that most humans don’t envision how fucked up they are in the head. They get away with a lot of nonsense because most people can’t imagine themselves doing such ridiculously evil things. As soon as you recognize that they’re a tribe of psychopaths their behavior and their clients behavior makes perfect sense. They don’t care how many people they kill. They want power at ALL cost. Nothing is to costly for them to obtain power over everyone.

    The only method that psychologist have come up with to deal with psychopaths is to get them away from you. The Jews have been thrown out of every single country they’ve ever been to in any significant numbers. It’s time to throw them out of the US.

  139. Rurik says:
    @utu

    “Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. ” – You can’t come up with a better explanation?

    I have to try to keep it pithy. (I have a regrettable tendency towards long-windedness)

    Obama is a black racist. In his heart of hearts he hates and despises the white man. He belonged to a Afro-centric church that railed against America as irredeemably racist country, and Obama sat in those pews every Sunday. His books drip with anti-white sentiment.

    So when this black man with a racist chip on his shoulder who’s achieved ‘the most powerful office in the world’, has to take calls relentlessly by a supremely arrogant white man who orders him around like they were both back on the plantation, I’m sure it irks something deep inside Obama.

    of course the dynamics of the relationship are more complicated. In some ways both men are natural allies in that they both hate and despise white America. But in the big picture, they both serve the Oligarchs that run the deepstate. If Bibi gets a call and is told to back off on bombing Assad for the time being, he has to listen, and then that same person may pick up the phone and order Obama to shoot down a Russian jet. They’re both really puppets, and on that level, perhaps they can commiserate. But personally, Obama hates Bibi perhaps worse than he even hates Donald Trump. Both Bibi and Trump are arrogant white men, but in Bibi’s case, Obama has to eat what Bibi dishes out, and that creates its own kind of resentment/hatred

  140. bluedog says:
    @geokat62

    It would seem like some patriotic American or Americans would start the cleansing project ridding the world of the evil that inhabit it both here and abroad.!!!

  141. Rurik says:
    @utu

    “The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.” – It’s more about Christianity than race.

    well, you’re wrong here utu

    who are the most evil people that have ever, ever existed since the beginning of time?

    that’s a no brainer, it was the Nazis

    and they are the very worst, evil, beyond evil and beyond anything that is even comprehensible when it comes to evil.

    and why?

    because they were white, nationalistic racists who fought to secure their place in the sun as Germans, (the race) not as Christians (the religion)

    who are the men the Jews (and all the assorted SJW and BLM and La Raza) of the world hate most today? Christians? Or white nationalists?

    the Christians are their dogs. They go around preaching about the need to support Israel no matter what and immigration is great and blah, blah, blah. But the white nationalists don’t give a &*%$ about Israel. But rather seek to see the white race persevere. And it is for this that they are hated beyond earthy words.

    Who is the most hated man in the world today? Answer- Donald Trump, with Vlad Putin following in the distant second place. And why do they hate Trump? Is it because of his Christianity? Or because he wants to end policies that are in place to genocide the white race off the planet for all eternity?

    Make no mistake, it is the white race that drives them nutty with rage. And not for anything that the white man has done to them, but rather how the white man makes them feel about themselves.

    (sorry if this is a little off topic, but it just seems like these discussions tend to do that at times)

  142. Joe Wong says:
    @attonn

    Russian’s retaliation against Turk’s reckless adventurism was not apparent; perhaps Russian’s covert retaliation against Turks’ aggression is the root of all the USA provocations and threats in Syria; if the Russian did not hit back the Turk what is the likelihood the Russian will hit back the American the American must be wondering.

    Russian hit Turks back asymmetrically is way more less risky than hitting back the American asymmetrically.

  143. geokat62 says:

    … there should be intellectual reparations or a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy…

    See, Sam S. While you may be reluctant calling the goy dumb, some of your co-religionists have no issues doing so.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  144. Why do you use term “Malvinas Islands”? They’ve been called the “Falkland Islands” since 1833.

    Are you planning to discuss Temasik, Siam, Ceylon, or Abyssinia?

  145. pogohere says: • Website
    @Rurik

    The notion that the Ukraine was subjected to a deliberate genocide in the 1930s has been subjected to considerable study that puts in doubt that notion.

    See: Fraud, Famine and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard.

    http://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

    Take particular note of the pictures that were faked and misrepresented.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    , @Rurik
  146. frankie p says:
    @Avery

    I guess you consider the massive infrastructure investments that China is currently carrying out in Central and South Asia as “mind(ing) its own business around its periphery.” When the pipelines are completed linking Iran’s eastern border directly to western China and CIPS becomes a real alternative to SWIFT, what kind of teeth will American-backed sanctions against Iran have? As to your misinformed statement that the Chinese have no interest in or will derive no benefit from sending troops to Syria, I think you’d do better to study large geopolitical trends and alliances. By providing a stronger counterweight against the American empire (and its hodgepodge coalition of emasculated European nations and head chopping terrorists), China would be solidifying its strong and growing partnership with Russia, win hearts and minds across Central Asia, parts of the Middle East and Africa, and most importantly for China, set up a quid pro quo with Russia for the time when China needs naval support in the Pacific. The US is very busy trying to tie the East and Southeast Asian nations into some kind of coalition of deterrence to what is perceived to be China’s expansion (it’s not expansion) into the second island chain. America’s naval forces in the Pacific are still significant, though with the introduction of new missile technology they are fast becoming floating targets. China, a deliberate, patient player on the world stage, may be willing to commit to Syria in exchange for future help against the US in the South China Sea.

  147. […] This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-options-against-a-us-attack-on-syria/ […]

  148. […] This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-options-against-a-us-attack-on-syria/ […]

  149. neutral says:

    If there is a thermo nuclear war would only America and Russia be hit ? Or would Europe and East Asia also be targets, are there any other areas as well ?

  150. […] This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-options-against-a-us-attack-on-syria/ […]

  151. L.K says:

    Interesting RT CrossTalk interview, ‘Russia-US relations: Dangerous Escalation’;

    At around 0:50, R.T’s Peter Lavelle turns to retired CIA veteran, Ray McGovern, with a question re Washington’s seemingly irrational position towards Syria;
    McGovern then mentions what he calls…. the “Elephant in the room”, i.e., Israel.
    RT Peter Lavelle appears anxious to move on! No follow up questions, eh Peter? Haha

    • Replies: @Rurik
  152. @geokat62

    What does religion have to do with a racial/genetic observation?

    How else can you explain murricans slavish devotion to Hollywood and the Idiotbox?

  153. @pogohere

    Hello, Pogohere!

    I just finished reading a book on the Holodomor…”Execution by Hunger: The Hidden Holocaust” by Miron Dolot. Great book.

    I’ve heard about people trying to debunk the Holodomor, but I haven’t seen any scholarly work on the matter. Basically, there are three groups who would have a very keen interest in covering up the Holodomor…the Jews, the Russians, and the Socialists/Communists. The PDF you link to is a book written by Douglass Tottle…who is a Socialist. I can dismiss this out of hand.

  154. @Pat the Rat

    It is true there were problems prior but the coup initiated, expanded and expedited the decline. According to Strauss and Howe in The Fourth Turning it was one of the momentous pivots of our saeculum.

    https://www.saeculumresearch.com/knowledge-center/generations-and-turnings/turnings-introduction

  155. @neutral

    I don’t like to think about this…I’m a prepper. What good would it be to prep for life in an extremely hostile, radioactive environment? There would be no point to it.

    If there were to be a nuclear exchange: Russia, the US, Europe, and Israel would all be destroyed within a couple hours. I don’t know about Asia…probably them too.

    I doubt it’ll come to that (fingers crossed).

  156. pogohere says: • Website

    The Russians need only remain standing until the central banks exhaust their ability to glue together the utterly disfunctional global monetary system with digital money printing (QE):

    World’s Central Banks Still Pumping New Money At Near Record $200B Monthly Rate

  157. Ben_C says:
    @Pat the Rat

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist’s hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    I don’t think so-called “Israel” and “Jews” are synonymous; but let’s just put that issue and these semantics aside for the moment…as it seems beside the point and just a distraction. Based on your comments, I assume this would mean all so-called “Israeli” citizens are “Jews”…but, again, getting into this discussion seems somewhat unrelated and just a distraction to main “issue(s)” at hand here.

    The answer to your original “question” seems obvious to me. In response, let me ask you this: how many bombs have so-called “ISIS” and/or so-called “al-Qaeda” detonated in so-called “Israel” to date?

    Additionally, which groups exactly are operating on the Israeli/Syria border now? Which group(s) of so-called “moderate” cannibals are currently in control and responsible for that “peaceful” boarder at present? Which boarder crossings?

    Names???

    Just curious…

    • Replies: @nsa
  158. nsa says:
    @Ben_C

    Here in Ft. Meade and Langley, we lovingly refer to the terrorist useful idiots as JOOHADIS…….

  159. Miro23 says:
    @Rurik

    “Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pisses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to ‘the Jews’.”

    And they’re having lots of fun jerking him around, with so little concern, that it almost looks as if he’s being blackmailed. If he is, he could forget about his legacy, admit that he had gay lovers or whatever, and have a press conference to name his handlers and what he’s done for them.

    “It’s white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they’d hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.”

    This has been a theme ever since they were a European minority, but they got satisfaction with the Gulag.

    Most of the camp commanders were Jewish, with the Bolshevik, October 1917 minority coup being a catastrophe for the ethnic Russian and Ukrainian majority. The Bolshevik leaders were for the most part Jewish and they their used absolute power to put in train the largest slaughter of Christian Europeans that the world has ever seen.

    The tallies attributable to the NKVD (director Genrik Yagoda and deputy Yakov Agranov both Jewish), the Gulag (heads all Jewish: Aron Solts, Yakov Rappoport, Lazar Kogan, Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel ) and the Ukrainian death famine of the winter of 1932-33 (organized by Lazar Kaganovich), each exceeded by millions the Holocaust with the western media to the present day carefully censoring all references.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  160. Rurik says:
    @Stonehands

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    …Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?

    Stockholm syndrome

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?

    “The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

    ~ Orwell

    a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis

    The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone. It all gets decided by who has the mic. And when the Jews of the world were handed the mic (the Fed), they were given the power to rule, because of the golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules.

    It’s not like they’re all that smart. Just look at the level of trash coming out of Hollywood. Look at them feebly trying to smear Trump. They own all the media of consequence and all the “respected” politicians and all the newspapers and radio stations and everything, and still all they can do is hurl school playground insults. I wish there were a smart one somewhere just to make it more interesting.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  161. This is a case where Russia really needs to take Sun Tzu’s advice and “know the enemy”.

    And in this case the “enemy” is a Satanic cult that seeks to achieve complete world domination and control by “giving worth to evil” (i.e., worshiping Satan). One of the things which made this approach so effective for the cult (so far at least) is the brainwashing-induced spiritual bankruptcy/moral incompetence of the masses. The masses have been “beguiled” (Genesis 3:13), mainly by way of the beast’s monopolistic control of modern mass communications (i.e., its “mouth, as the mouth of a lion”, Rev 13:2).

    (BTW all of this is predicted in the Bible in supernaturally prescient detail, and the subject Satanic cult – the first beast of Rev 13, aka the fourth beast of Daniel 7 – is also implicitly identified therein).

    In light of this, the struggle is not ultimately about the fate of Syria, but about the fate of the whole world, because the “beast” will not stop unless and until it is destroyed.

    From a purely worldly perspective, the cult members would be described as “insane”, but the spiritual description of pure “evil” is more appropriate and useful (especially for purposes of predicting their behavior).

    The members of this cult (henceforth “beast”) are not motivated by forces originating in the physical realm, but by the spiritual force of evil, which originates in the unseen spiritual realm (Ephesians 6:12).

    And in order to control the governments of the corrupt “West”, you’ll note that the beast has successfully purged any and all reasonable/morally competent people from any position of power and influence, and replaced them all with the most corrupt (thus controllable, people they could find).

    For example, consider the behavior of Samantha Power, John Kirby, Mark Miley, etc. The irrational wild-eyed fanaticism you see on public display is obviously not the comportment of reasonable people, but of demon-possessed people; and this is all by design.

    Now consider their main puppet ruler, Obama. They obviously didn’t pick him for his (lack of) “intelligence”; they didn’t pick him for his (lack of) “organizational/managerial skills”; they didn’t pick him for his (lack of) “diplomatic skills”; rather, they seem to have selected him for one reason alone: his abject moral depravity. In the person of Obama they apparently have the embodiment of the spirit of Satan, which is exactly the person they need to occupy the most powerful, most unaccountable seat of political power that ever existed on earth – the post 9/11 office of “president” of the U.S.

    Yes, the beast plotted and carried out 9/11 so as to overthrow the last vestiges of “the rule of law” in the U.S., consolidate all power in the executive branch, install the “antichrist” into that seat of power (after all, what good is the most powerful office if the puppet is constrained by a conscience), erect a domestic police state, and set about using U.S. military, economic and political power to forcibly impose the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist “New World Order” on the whole planet (in the attempt to fulfill Isaiah 14:13,14).

    And this is where we are today.

    The “enemy” (evil) is like an aggressive cancer. It cannot be reasoned with. It will not compromise. It will continue to attack the host body – planet earth – until the host is dead, even though when the host dies, the evil dies as well.

    • Agree: Stonehands
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  162. Rurik says:
    @pogohere

    The Ukrainian Genocide Myth

    I guess the reason people have for suggesting that the Holodomor never happened, is because it, like what happened at places like the Katyn forest, go a long way towards making the motivations of Joseph Stalin known to the world. And by extension, Germanys desire not to want the same thing for Germany.

    The Holodomor happened a full decade before any Holocaust, and was even more horrific than the Holocaust, which was perpetrated almost humanely by comparison. Whereas the Holodomor was proof of a sadistic cruelty that defies all human comprehension. They could have just shot those people like they did at Katyn. Shipping all the grains and livestock out of the area was a logistical feat, and required many resources and man hours to accomplish. Whereas the unstinted use of the machine gun would have made short work of the Kulaks. But they wanted them to suffer, and they wanted them to die slowly and excruciatingly, watching their children die slowly before their eyes. Just imagine that. Imagine the kind of people who force you to watch your children waste away, day after day, until they’re dead.

    To do that to a people your hatred has to be otherworldly.

    And it wasn’t for anything those people did that earned such hatred, rather is was for what they were; white, Christians of ability, just like the Germans. And when they had the chance finally to starve the German people after the war was over, even Eisenhower got in on it, with his death camps for teenage German boys once the war was over, where he too deliberately starved hundreds of thousands of them to a slow and deliberate, freezing death of starvation.

    But then, perhaps just as with the Katyn forest massacre (that they lie about), and the Holodomor (that they lie about), maybe Eisenhower’s death camps were all made up too? Eh?

    I have nothing but contempt for Nazis or Nazi apologists, but I must say, that when you consider and calculate the sheer monstrous cruelty and genocidal hatred of their enemies, it makes the Nazis almost look kind and compassionate by comparison. If the acts of the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany at the end of the war doesn’t prove that the Nazis were right about them, and that they were indeed sub-human rapists and murderous, cruel drooling goons, then truth is meaningless.

    That the Holodomor happened is irrefutable. That millions of innocent, harmless farmers were systematically starved to death by Stalin and his (Jewish) henchmen (like Lazar Kaganovich) is a well know historical fact. The only thing that is in dispute are the exact motivations of those who would want to rewrite history to whitewash the terrible crimes of those who’re guilty, perhaps to maintain the cartoon narrative that all the evil was on one side of that war, and all the good was on the other, when nothing on this planet could be further from the truth.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  163. @Rurik

    Why would you “have nothing but contempt for Nazis”? The Nazis were not the monsters you imply that they were.

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved, against the same demonic forces that confront us today with an impending WW3.

    BTW General George Patton apparently realized as much after the war was over and was accordingly and promptly assassinated.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Avery
  164. Avery says:

    {If the acts of the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany at the end of the war doesn’t prove that the Nazis were right about them, and that they were indeed sub-human rapists and murderous, cruel drooling goons, then truth is meaningless.}

    Spoken like a true Nazi apologist and revisionist.
    Poor, poor misunderstood Hitler.
    Poor, poor misunderstood Nazis.
    They just had to invade SU and kill and murder 10s of million of people.

    If the Red Army had behaved anywhere near the behaviour of Nazi invaders, there would be no Germany left. Nazi Germans fully intended and planned to exterminate all Slavs to make room for their Lebensraum to be populated by the alleged ‘Master’ race.

    There was no German military left in 1945.
    The insane Nazis were sending children to take on T-34s.
    Germany was completely at the mercy of the Red Army.
    They could have wiped out every last German if they wanted to.

    You talk about rapes.
    What did the Nazi invaders do to the Russian women, bring them flowers?

    Nazi invaders killed and murdered ~10 million Soviet citizens, overwhelmingly Slavs, causing the deaths of ~25 million Soviet citizens total.

    {That millions of innocent, harmless farmers were systematically starved to death…}

    Read about the 2+ year Siege of Leningrad by Nazi sub-human murderers and genocidal, cruel drooling goons. Read about the Hell the civilians went through. The slow, cruel starvation….

    [[NKVD files report the first use of human meat as food on 13 December 1941.The report outlines thirteen cases which range from a mother smothering her eighteen-month-old to feed her three older children to a plumber killing his wife to feed his sons and nieces.

    By December 1942, the NKVD arrested 2,105 cannibals dividing them into two legal categories: corpse-eating (trupoyedstvo) and person-eating (lyudoyedstvo). The latter were usually shot while the former were sent to prison. The Soviet Criminal Code had no provision for cannibalism so all convictions were carried out under Code Article 59–3, “special category banditry”.

    Instances of person-eating were significantly lower than that of corpse-eating; of the 300 people arrested in April 1942 for cannibalism, only 44 were murderers.64% of cannibals were female, 44% were unemployed, 90% were illiterate, 15% were rooted inhabitants, and only 2% had any criminal records. More cases occurred in the outlying districts than the city itself. Cannibals were often unsupported women with dependent children and no previous convictions, which allowed for a certain level of clemency in legal proceedings.

    Given the scope of mass starvation, cannibalism was relatively rare. Far more common was murder for ration cards. In the first six months of 1942, Leningrad witnessed 1,216 such murders. At the same time, Leningrad was experiencing its highest casualty rate, as high as 100,000 people per month. Lisa Kirschenbaum notes “that incidents of cannibalism provided an opportunity for emphasizing that the majority of Leningraders managed to maintain their cultural norms in the most unimaginable circumstances.”] (from Wiki)

    A small sample of what Nazis wrought in SU.

  165. Rurik says:
    @Miro23

    The Bolshevik leaders were for the most part Jewish and they their used absolute power to put in train the largest slaughter of Christian Europeans that the world has ever seen.

    yes, and they will not relent

    hence the immigration inundation of all Christian Europeans until there are no more Christian Europeans.

    they got the flower of Europa to commit massive fratricide in the last century

    in this one they want to use immigration to finish the job

    War, strife, death and misery in the last century, and war, strife death and misery in this one too

    charming people

    but who’s worse? those who non-Christian Europeans who want to genocide the Europeans off the planet, or those Europeans who take shekels to help get the job done?

  166. Rurik says:
    @Harold Smith

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved,

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

    I guess because the world is still fighting the same international bankers and tribal supremacists, who’re still trying to pound a stake though the heart of Western civilization (and the Muslim world), and finish the job they started in the last century?

    • Agree: Stonehands
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    , @L.K
  167. Rurik says:
    @Avery

    the (very real) suffering that happened in Leningrad was due to the exigencies of war. Not a deliberate agenda of sadistic cruelty for its own sake. Just like the way the Germans forbid rape and the Soviets encouraged it. Night vs day.

    That men will rape during war is one of the hapless failings of our gender and species, but that a government would encourage such a thing, proves them to be monsters.

    I don’t try to dismiss the atrocities that the Nazis committed, I only point out that their enemies were worse.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Avery
  168. @Rurik

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)

    As I see it, Germany was forced into a war it didn’t want. The beast lured Hitler into Poland just like it lured Japan to Pearl Harbor, Saddam Hussein into Kuwait and just like it is trying to lure Russia into Ukraine and Syria.

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/id570.html

    I think the problem was not “hubris” but rather a form of “naivety” or “stupidity”. Hitler made some serious mistakes of judgment, e.g., letting the allied army escape at Dunkirk.

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    But by then the Germans knew the war with America was coming anyway, whether they wanted it or not, just like the Russians realize today that a war with America is coming, whether they want it or not.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.

    Just like Russia (and other countries) today try to make deals with Washington, even though they know that Obama et al. are fiends. Just like the whole world is coming to hate America and see Americans as “untermenschen”, because America has now become the main host for the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist beast, just as was Russia before it.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.

    Not “arrogance”. How could they have avoided war? The Jews would not stop. Could Saddam Hussein or Assad or Putin have avoided what happened since WW2? I think not.

    “For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany’s ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews.” — Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in “Histoire de l’Arme’e Allemande” by Jacques Benoist–Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).”

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high

    .

    I agree completely.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

    You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Avery
    , @utu
  169. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    great video L.K.

    I always assume the main motivation for Israel to see Syria ripped apart is for the Golan. But this guy brings up the important part about Hezbollah supplying Lebanon though Syria.

    Last night after watching as much of that sow as I could stand, they had some Republican strategist on talking about how Trump and Pence were at odds over Syria, and then he went into how Aleppo was being occupied by the ‘good’ terrorists, er, I mean ‘rebels”, and that Putin was targeting the “good rebels’ and how that was unacceptable because they were fighting Assad, and all this convoluted lying and dissembling.

    Trump apparently understands what’s going on, while his running mate is either clueless or a whore.

    Everyday we get closer to a tight election with so much at stake gets more dangerous by the day that they might do something incredibly stupid.

    • Replies: @L.K
  170. annamaria says:
    @neutral

    It would not be surprising to learn that Russian Federation keeps Israel on a cross-hair: Israel totally deserves such treatment considering the warmongering Lobby and the behavior of Israel’ “representatives” in the US Congress and MIC. The problem is that the conflict could start on a low-level of military command, thanks to the US intensifying demonization of Russia. The air of mistrust between two nuclear superpowers is toxic for humanity.

  171. Rurik says:
    @Harold Smith

    Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    I agree with this Harold

    and that 98% of the things we are told are lies.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?

    I have family members that are Jewish that I love very much. I would not want them sent to any camps, but I would want to see all traitors to this republic (and the principles upon which it was built), tried, and if convicted.. hanged by the neck until their tongues turned purple and they danced their last jig. Jew or Gentile.

    right now ‘m in the wait and see mode, but if she gets in, I figure it’s all bets are off

    the republic will be over, and I’ll be looking for a pleasant place from which to view the unfolding tragedy far away from N. America

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  172. @Rurik

    “The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone…”

    …And they make the most out of it scientifically:

    The pathetic male populations weekend revolves around “watching” instead of participating. The proof is their sitting in front of some giant flat screen T.V. for 3 hours to watch a one hour game.

    The jingoism, the bull***t military presence and flyovers in these Nazi-like televised extravaganzas have everything to do with mass man losing control of himself as he is being subsumed under the totalitarian police state; brainwashed into thinking he is a patriot, too, for supporting the Pentagon- that’s the lead bureaucracy in MORALLY subverting the country [don’t forget those Satanic halftime shows] these fools think they are defending- and in the same way professional sports subverts virtually everything good and decent about sports in America.

    This sort of socially engineered mob behavior is inimicable to manliness, but desirable in mass man.

    As Spengler put it, no animal trainer has his animal more under his control, than those who own the media do these trained apes who fancy themselves men…

    P.S.

    The fish rots from the head down.

    The FED must be smashed into a thousand pieces and scattered to the wind.

    You won’t be voting your way out of this hot mess…

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @mad1
  173. Rurik says:
    @Stonehands

    um, OK

    I sort of agree with all that

    but what about Syria and Putin and Assad and Israel and WWIII?

    my advise to Putin is to stand his ground, because if he relents in Syria, they’ll be coming for him on Russia proper

    Putin needs to have his Wyatt Earp “No!” moment

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  174. Avery says:
    @Harold Smith

    {Nazi Germany was a defensive entity,…..}

    Of course it was.

    Here is one example: an invading Red Army soldier taken prisoner deep inside the Bavaria, where the Nazi German defense entity, the Wehrmacht, was battling the invading hordes from the East:

  175. Avery says:
    @Harold Smith

    {You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, …..}

    Yes, and Hitler was Jewish too.
    Jews created Nazi Germany so several million of their tribe would be wiped out.
    Then……this is the best part……Jews would use that fact to create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the murders of Jews that Jews themselves organized.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    , @Rurik
  176. utu says:
    @Harold Smith

    Are you sure that the sources from which you got Vladimir Jabotinsky quote are credible?

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  177. Avery says:
    @Rurik

    {Just like the way the Germans forbid rape and the Soviets encouraged it}

    OK: what is your evidence that Soviets encouraged it?

    Books by WW2 revisionist British authors (e.g. Anthony Beevor) are not convincing for me.

    One reason being, Brits want to ‘promote’ the mass rape meme, so that their real, documented war crimes against German civilians are not talked about. The most heinous, of course, being the firebombing of Dresden, where up to 100,000 German civilians, including an unknown number of children, were murdered by UK and US AFs. Boiled alive.

    Also, a recent book by German author claims Americans, English, and French raped close to 1 million German women.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20150305/book-world-war-ii-allied-soldiers-raped-nearly-1mil-germans
    {A German historian estimates in a new book that French, British and American soldiers raped 860,000 Germans at and after the end of the Second World War, including 190,000 sexual assaults by American soldiers.}

    That claim was naturally ridiculed by US, UK, etc and swept under the rug.
    I don’t know either way, but British claims about what Soviets did is extremely suspicious to me.

    And here is a rebuttal by UNZ contributor A. Karlin. Karlin is Russian (i.e. possibly biased) and I don’t think he is a professional historian, but his rebuttal is sound (to me).

    [Translation: The Red Army “Rape of Germany” was Invented by Goebbels]
    http://akarlin.com/2013/05/red-army-rape-myth/

    btw: {the (very real) suffering that happened in Leningrad was due to the exigencies of war. }

    Pretty nice, revisionist way to classify the deliberate war-crime starving of the civilian population of Leningrad by invading Nazis as war ‘exigence’.

    Maybe the firebombing of Dresden was also – you know – ‘war exigence’?

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @German_reader
  178. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Hey Rurik,
    Glad you liked the video. You might like the following CrossTalk one as well;
    ‘White helmets*, really?’
    *( AKA, AL-CIADA with a face lift)

    @6:45 of the next vid, SyrianGirl shows footage of these creeps, the ‘white helmets’, waving al-qaeda flags, armed with guns, etc.

    Netflix even released a “documentary”( a cheap propaganda film) named ‘The White Helmets’, and I bet people are eating that shit with glee.

    I mention this propaganda gimmick to remind people of the sheer level of LIES that we are regularly fed. The fiend thinks we must be mushroom; kept in the dark & fed BS.
    When it comes to warfare, since the advent of mass media, war propaganda/atrocity propaganda have been fed to unsuspecting fools with regularity, over a 100 years now, & ever more sophisticated.
    Spread the message to those u know.

    Rurik:

    I always assume the main motivation for Israel to see Syria ripped apart is for the Golan. But this guy brings up the important part about Hezbollah supplying Lebanon though Syria.

    Well, I had pretty much said that already here at Unz, I think even to you. But then again I ain’t a CIA veteran… haha
    The other angle re Israel is that if Syria could be destroyed, Israel might try to flank Hezbs defenses in South Lebanon through Syria.

    Take care

    • Replies: @Rurik
  179. @Rurik

    Israel doesn’t have alliances or recognize treaties in any sense like the US. In fact, energy wise, they have more to gain from “interests” with the Russians -and in certain scenarios might play Washington like the 1 dollar whore they are.
    If Philly is a viable electoral sample, than the white doofuss’s overwhelmingly support grandma- disheartening, even though l can sight a dozen clear cut policy differences that are life threatening (including the current contratemps in Syria).
    So, maybe 20 per cent are on board here, like you and l, and would shower Vlad with fragrant rice if he could somehow humiliate severely the MIC…

    • Replies: @Rurik
  180. @Avery

    Yes, and Hitler was Jewish too.

    No, he wasn’t.

    Jews created Nazi Germany so several million of their tribe would be wiped out.

    Jewish treachery created Nazi Germany, just like Jewish treachery created Hezbollah, just like Jewish treachery made enemies out of the survivors of the USS Liberty, etc.

    Jews didn’t just demolish the WTC towers, but they defrauded the insurance company and collected the insurance; likewise, Jews didn’t just murder Rachel Corrie, but they subsequently plundered her organs; likewise, Jews didn’t just destroy Germany, but they defrauded the whole world with their Satanic holocaust mythology.

    http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm


    Then……this is the best part……Jews would use that fact to create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the murders of Jews that Jews themselves organized.

    Actually, the best part is the apparent fact that Jews believe they’re going to conquer the world by “giving worth to evil”, i.e., by “worshiping Satan”.

    But allow me to correct your sentence: “…Jews would use that fact to [help] create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the [alleged] murders of Jews that [to the extent it happened in the first place] Jews themselves [caused].

    BTW General Patton discovered that WW2 was just another Jewish fraud and it cost him his life:

    • Replies: @Avery
  181. Rurik says:
    @Avery

    Yes, and Hitler was Jewish too.
    Jews created Nazi Germany so several million of their tribe would be wiped out.

    no Avery, they didn’t create Nazi Germany on purpose, the Nazis were a consequence of Jewish [read Zionist] treachery and genocidal hatred as manifested by their slaughter of the Romanov family, their slaughter of any productive person in Russia after the Bolshevik, [Jewish] take over of that country culminating in the starvation genocide of millions of Ukrainian peasants.

    Unlike your cartoon version, where the Nazis were evil Germans who woke up one day and said, ‘hey, lets gas all the Jews because they’re inferior’, and then goose-stepped into Poland..

    rather the Nazis were a creation of several circumstances, the most significant of which was the vile treachery of the allies following the betrayal of Germany at the end of the first world war.

    [I can’t believe I have to explain this even here on the UR]

    where the Germans were promised that if they laid down their arms, they would be treated honorably as per Wilsons Fourteen Points. So they trusted the allies and laid down their arms and then were betrayed and subjected to a mass-starvation campaign and forced to sign Germany’s progeny to perpetual debt slavery, and wrongfully blamed for starting the war in the first place, and then to add salt in the wounds, Jewish carpet baggers came from all over the globe to purchase Germanys institutions and then lorded it over her during the infamous Weimar regime- where Germany’s young people were treated like prostitutes and her veterans of the war left to beg in the streets.

    all of this is what created Nazi Germany Avery, and perhaps most of all the obvious intention of the world’s communists to destroy Germany utterly, with assorted highly placed Jews demanding the final solution to the German people and their castration and elimination.

    Then……this is the best part……Jews would use that fact to create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the murders of Jews that Jews themselves organized.

    Yes, you’re right here, that in the end, the good German people who did not run death camps, but did run concentration camps, were in the end, forced by the eternal Jews to participate in a mass-genocide of innocent people (the Palestinians), by having to pay reparations to the genocidal state of Israel

    So they were forced into WWI, and then tried to end that war, only to be betrayed and tricked into signing away the lives of all future Germans, until Hitler brought them out from under the cruel Jewish iron boot, only to have the world’s Jews foist yet another war upon Germany and see her destroyed utterly. And she’s been lied about and subject to such horrendous maligning and hatred ever since as to benumb the soul of even the most cynical student of history.

    Did the Nazis commit atrocities? Yes. Were they always innocent and noble and honorable? Fuck no. But with relentless avalanche of hysterical lies and Germany bashing and slander and frothing damnation, it’s simply necessary to put things into perspective from time to time.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  182. Avery says:
    @Rurik

    {… the way the Germans forbid rape …}

    Not according to this historian, Omer Bartov :

    {….the war in the East offered the German soldier endless opportunities for committing authorized and unauthorized acts of murder and destruction, robbery and plunder, rape and torture, for which he was rarely punished and not infrequently praised by his superiors. }

    • Replies: @Rurik
  183. Avery says:
    @Harold Smith

    {BTW General Patton discovered that WW2 was just another Jewish fraud and it cost him his life:}

    BTW: Patton had lost his marbles. He was an old and bitter man who missed out on military ‘glory’. Was too old by the time he made general, and resented it all his life. He imagined himself another Napoleon or something, cheated out of ‘deserved’ glory.

    He was advocating – publicly and very vociferously – a new war with USSR, using Nazis POWs. He was cashiered and told to disappear by Bradley/Eisenhower. Patton was a nobody-general. A Hollywood myth.

    He was not important enough to be assassinated.

  184. Rurik says:
    @Avery

    Germans forbid rape and the Soviets encouraged it}

    OK: what is your evidence that Soviets encouraged it?


    Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army

    http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ehrenburg

    the terrible ravages of the Red Army Rapists are a well known and well documented fact Avery, all of your revisionism to the contrary. And it was all encouraged by the Soviet command. (and their Jewish propagandists)

    yes, yes the Brits and the Americans did their share of raping too, but usually they just traded food for sex from the starving German women and girls. Being so much more gallant.

    and yes, the Brits and the Americans were just as under the thrall of Jewish hatred for all things German as the Soviets were, and so yes, you’re right, they did burn hundreds of thousands of German old men, women and children alive, in a vain attempt to sate the insatiable hatred of the Jews who wanted their Old Testament revenge upon Germany.

    Pretty nice, revisionist way to classify the deliberate war-crime starving of the civilian population of Leningrad by invading Nazis as war ‘exigence’.

    Maybe the firebombing of Dresden was also – you know – ‘war exigence’?

    that was the difference. The siege upon Leningrad was at the height of a hot war, a total war, an existential war with a genocidal fiend hell bent on exterminating Germany like it had exterminated the Kulaks.

    Whereas the bombing of Dresden was pure, Satanic hatred unleashed, at the end of the war and with Zero strategic importance.

    For the record..

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Avery
  185. @utu

    Are you sure that the sources from which you got Vladimir Jabotinsky quote are credible?

    I believe that they are but I can’t say that I’m “sure” of it.

    One thing I am sure of however, is that there are so many statements by so many influential Jews in the same time period which are basically communicating the same thing, i.e., the Jewish collective demands the destruction of Germany and is declaring war on Germany accordingly, that it really wouldn’t matter one way or the other.

  186. schmenz says:
    @Rurik

    Very well said. Bravo.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  187. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    Hey LK,

    I’ve taken a cursory look at the videos, will watch them in their entirety latter.

    So to what degree are some motivations more important than others in Israel’s psychopathic crusade to destroy every Muslim country in the region?

    like you, I’m just not sure of the exact levels of importance for each goal. But it does seem certain to me beyond all doubt that seizing the Golan Heights seems paramount to their immediate agenda. And then the strategic advantages vis-a-vis Hezbollah perhaps are just as critical.

    But I think what it all boils down to is simply the absolute destruction of all nations and all resistance to their wider agenda of total global dominance. For now they’re content to destroy all of Israel’s neighbors in the greater Levant, and see them all reduced to dystopian hells on Earth. Where strife is the daily reality, and terrible suffering a way of ‘life’. Such a deal!

    if the rest of us don’t find a way to end the Fed, then they will surely be coming for us eventually.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  188. Rurik says:
    @Stonehands

    the white doofuss’s overwhelmingly support grandma- disheartening

    yea, I just spoke to a buddy who’s actually undecided!

    smart guy too. Successful, beautiful wife and children, lives in Cali and must see the ravages of immigration up close and personal, but he’s always been sort of sheep-like when it comes to the big pictures, and I bet there are lots and lots more of his type out there.

    we are perhaps doomed, and must consider the war sow a distinct possibility.

    if we can, we must get out.

    S. America or Australia or New Zealand or something.

    if Hillary becomes president- do not raise your white children in this country if you have a shred of compassion for them

    you MUST get them out

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  189. Rurik says:
    @Avery

    {….the war in the East offered the German soldier endless opportunities for committing authorized and unauthorized acts of murder and destruction, robbery and plunder, rape and torture, for which he was rarely punished and not infrequently praised by his superiors.}

    that’s bullshit Avery

    that it happened is certain, but that is was authorized is bullshit

    the Germans were murderous and committed atrocities, and some of the soldiers no doubt did commit rape and other crimes, but they were not animals like the Soviets, that exhorted their sub-human drooling thugs to brutally rape every women and girl they came u0pn

    http://rense.com/general39/allied.htm

  190. @Rurik

    A quick reply and then BASTA!

    That is the only option- smart people got the hell out of Germany in 1934- war looms!

    The potty- mouthed women; the anally obsessed culturally- Marxist women- and the drooling manques who carry the spit bucket for them, raise my hackles…there’s no way I physically defend “this”….

    To emigrate…to Asia..as far from self- destructive Anglo influence…

    I have been referred to as a ” hemispheric traitor” HA!

  191. @Rurik

    Ehrenburg’s alleged call for the rape of German women seems to be a myth dating back to the 1950s, as far as I know it has never been proven that Ehrenburg ever made such a statement. He did use somewhat extreme language in exhorting Red army soldiers to kill German soldiers, but that was understandable in the context of the time.
    Unless you’ve uncovered new evidence that Ehrenburg made such a statement, you should refrain from making that accusation.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  192. @Avery

    “The most heinous, of course, being the firebombing of Dresden, where up to 100,000 German civilians, including an unknown number of children, were murdered by UK and US AFs. ”

    Those numbers are no longer credible, the likely number of deaths in the Dresden bombing is approximately 25 000, maybe even somewhat lower.
    And there is no doubt that Red army soldiers in 1944/1945 did rape hundreds of thousands of German women, and were at times rather out of control. I’m not saying this to denigrate the sacrifices of the Red army in WW2 nor do I want to trivialize the crimes committed by Germans against the peoples of the Soviet Union (something like the siege of Leningrad or the deliberate starving to death of almost 3 million pows were certainly crimes of genocidal intent, no doubt Soviet behaviour towards the defeated Germans was almost benign in comparison), but these are facts that aren’t really open to serious doubt.
    The war has been over for more than 70 years, a realistic appraisal of the facts should be possible now.

  193. Rurik says:
    @German_reader

    Unless you’ve uncovered new evidence that Ehrenburg made such a statement, you should refrain from making that accusation.

    Jesus Christ

    this is all very well established

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AIlya_Ehrenburg

    you had Jews like Henry Morgenthau calling for the complete extermination and genocide of the German people, and you have issues with a Soviet Jew calling for the rape of German women?

    All scholars know very well that the Russians were encouraged to rape all German women and girls (while killing the men and boys outright). And every single German I know above a certain age is well aware of what Stalin allowed his men to do. Which makes me wonder about your so-called moniker.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  194. utu says:
    @German_reader

    They managed to reduce Dresden number form over 100,000 to 25,000 and Auschwitz number from 4 mil to 1.25 mil but the Holocaust number of 6 millions does not budge and the number of 20, 25, or is it 30 millions of dead Soviets also seems to be fixed.

    If you let British historians to work a little bit more on the Dresden number they will reduce it to below 600 or whatever is the official number of dead in Coventry bombing. That’s what is behind the effort to lower the number.

    Hey, German_reader you are such a Good German. You Germans always seem to believe what is required of you. You never suffer from cognitive dissonances and always sleep very well.

    • Replies: @L.K
  195. @Rurik

    “Did the Nazis commit atrocities? Yes. Were they always innocent and noble and honorable? Fuck no. But with relentless avalanche of hysterical lies and Germany bashing and slander and frothing damnation, it’s simply necessary to put things into perspective from time to time.”

    Granted.
    Then you agree, that basing an economy on inherited centrally planned power [inter- generational banking clans]- based on something as destructive as the strip mining of the earth for gold- is absolutely corrupting, every time- whether German or Jewish?

    Predictable behavior and remote control from the center is the ultimate goal of any technocracy- the transfer of autonomy [keep using those debit cards] to the organized whole in which the individual is reduced to obedient [ mandatory .Gov schooling/mandatory debt] machine like parts.

    This is not uniquely Jewish. People are craven and will attach themselves to whoever is the current hegemon.

  196. @Rurik

    Hey WTF…

    If you conscript my young,dumb and full of cum- ass into your moronic bankster war- and you impress on me the fact that now murder is acceptable, then something as innocuous as “rape” under these circumstances, should be expected…I wont need any extraneous exhortations from the Jooooooooooos!!!

    • Replies: @Rurik
  197. L.K says:
    @utu

    Yeah, you nailed it Utu.

    He is a good boy, a good German Nestbeschmutzer.
    It is bc of people like this guy that Germany is walking towards the abyss.

    Besides, he is wrong on just about everything he wrote.

    • Agree: schmenz
  198. Miro23 says:
    @German_reader

    The war has been over for more than 70 years, a realistic appraisal of the facts should be possible now.

    No doubt I’ll rub everyone’s feathers the wrong way, but the direct evidence seems to point to the following sequence:

    German ideas of “Lebensraum (living space)” and the “Drang nach Osten (drive to the East)” were well established at least 30 years before 1900, as where ideas of German racial superiority. After Von Moltke’s 1871 victory over the French he wanted a direct attack on Russia. A voluminous Pan-German literature supported these ideas with one example among many being Karl Jentsch’s 1893 book, “Neither Communism nor Capitalism” saying, “The German colonists, spread over these wide areas, would be under the protection of the German Kaiser. In this manner, the whole European East, as well as Asia Minor, would form one mighty German Empire, a rampart for European culture against Russian and Mongol hordes, Germany becoming the Empire of empires.”

    After the assassination of Grand Duke Ferdinand, Austria-Hungary didn’t have to give an ultimatum to Serbia but they did. Germany didn’t have to give the ultimatum unquestioned support but they did, and an international call for a Peace Conference was sidelined and ignored as they headed towards war, which is what they wanted.

    They anticipated a war of movement that didn’t materialize. As one historian said (referring to the situation in July 1918), “Merely to make good loses suffered in the attacks so far, the German high command calculated, required 200.000 replacements each month but, even by drawing on the next annual class of eighteen year olds, only 300.000 recruits stood available.” They just couldn’t take the vast human losses involved in this new type of warfare.

    The Treaty of Versailles was French revenge for their humiliation in the Franco-Prussian War and the heavy reparations forced onto them by Germany.

    Germany rejected and couldn’t meet the Versailles payments, and became increasingly unstable after 1920 as the Weimar government was hit by Jewish Bolshevik revolutionary insurrections (Berlin 1919: Strike & Spartacist Uprising, Liebknecht & Luxemburg. Munich 1919: German Soviet Revolutionary Dictatorship, Eugen Levine) with a virtual war between left and right militias and the horrific example Jewish Bolshevik Russia after 1917, where a Jewish led regime set up the Jewish governed NKVD and Gulag death camps, putting in train the largest extermination of Christian Europeans that the world had ever seen. Germany also experienced hyperinflation that their largely Jewish banking and commercial class sidestepped and used to appropriate swathes of German city property while the middle class was ruined.

    Hitler mirrored German national resentment and determined 1) to finish with the Jews, ideally by deporting them. Like he said in 1942, ” “Although the Jew has seized the levers of control in the Anglo-Saxon world (the press, the cinema, the radio, economic life), and although in the United States he is the entire inspiration of the populace, especially of the negroes, the bourgeois of the two countries with the rope already around their necks, tremble at the idea of rebelling against him, even timidly. What is happening now in the Anglo-Saxon world is absolutely identical with what we experienced here in 1918.” 2) to finish with the Bolsheviks and Communism by launching Operation Barbarossa and reviving the traditional German idea of an Empire in East, and he had quite detailed plans for it, “I see there (Russia) the greatest possibilities for the creation of an empire of world-wide importance.” – “The country we are engaged in conquering will be a source of raw materials for us, and a market for our products, but we shall take good care not to industrialize it.” – “To exploit the Ukraine properly – that new Indian Empire – I need only peace in the West.”

    “We’ll supply the Ukrainians with scarves, glass beads and everything that colonial peoples like. The Germans – this is essential – will have to constitute among themselves a closed society, like a fortress. The least of our stable-lads must be superior to any native.” – “We’ll take the Southern part of the Ukraine, especially the Crimea, and make it an exclusively German colony. There’ll be no harm in pushing out the population that’s there now. The German colonist must be the soldier-peasant and for that I’ll take professional soldiers, whatever their line may have been previously.”

  199. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    “…few areas where Russia and Western countries should have common interests (e.g. combating Islamism).”

    It is so ironical that while discussing a topic on the evil, western civilisation is up to, Islamism, which is not even a fraction of that evil, should even get mentioned.

    It just appears to be racist’s fervent hope that whites desist from going back to killing each other, and stick to killing off the “darkies.”

    You quite deceitfully fail to acknowledge that the roots of this Islamism you speak of, has been the age old evil imperial desire to subjugate non-whites, and “kindly” impart to them your own delusional faith.

    When will the likes of you understand that Muslims already have a good handle on spiritual comprehension, the unshakeable Tawhid (look it up), and it is the west with its Pagan Polytheist beliefs, which requires spiritual reformation.

  200. @Anonymous

    “It just appears to be racist’s fervent hope that whites desist from going back to killing each other, and stick to killing off the “darkies.””

    Well, I’m not in favour of killing or subjugating other races (imperialism should be a thing of the past), but what’s wrong with white solidarity? I think we need more of it.
    And I really don’t care about your Tawhid thing, whatever that may be, I don’t share your basic assumptions. Mohammed obviously wasn’t a prophet, but an extremely flawed person…would probably have been better if he had never been born.

    • Replies: @KA
  201. This article is pants. The US is militarily powerful, but it is relatively thin. Russia has proved it can take out any high value target. US defense software is useless, Aegis is pants, underpants, US can’t lock on to Russian planes. Russia has built enough nuclear bunkers, enough to house 12 million in the Moscow area. The UK for instance, has no public nuclear bunkers and if you are thinking the tube, well, that is a coffin.

    Sure, Russia does not want a war. Why would you choose to fight a desperate bankrupt like the US or UK? Russia probes with its long range bombers, because it cost the UK money, money it doesn’t have and this is the point, Russia knows the game – play for time, because they are bust. The West in on the brink of another collapse which will be many times worse than the designed 2008 collapse.

  202. Wally says: • Website
    @Rurik

    Don’t make me laugh. The ‘holocau$t’ storyline is a laughable fraud, a scam for money & power.

    The Nazis didn’t do what the lying Zionist propaganda alleges.

    There are the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there are the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    We’re talking about an alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, or 250,000 at Sobibor) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The massive numbers of so called “survivor$” are living testimony to the fraudulence of the impossible ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    – Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

  203. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor

    “On the other hand, these cannibals …

    So there have been reports of some $cum eating a man’s heart. How much of it is true and how much is part of the west’s PR campaign, who knows.

    Now everyone in the ME is a cannibal?

    It is wondrous how the likes of you will change the narrative to somehow depict all Arabs/Muslims as total *beep* evil, even when there is overwhelming evidence that it is the Zio-West which is the evilest of them all.

    Shame on you people.

  204. By the way, there was also Wilhelm Gustloff. Apparently the number there is 9000, out of which 5000 were children.

    To be fair, both sides used to do this sort of thing.

  205. @Anonymous

    When will the likes of you understand that Muslims already have a good handle on spiritual comprehension, the unshakeable Tawhid (look it up), and it is the west with its Pagan Polytheist beliefs, which requires spiritual reformation.

    That’s a supremacist viewpoint which should be kept out of Europe. You are attacking our ancestral faith and such opinions will never be accepted by most Europeans.

    Having said that, I totally agree that the “whites” (the West, Russians) shouldn’t meddle in the ME and should’ve never committed all the murders of ME people.

    And speaking of Syria, I’ve heard that before the war began, there were three castes in this country – the 10% of Alawites who lived in villas, Christians who had an ok life, and Sunnis who lived in slums. I think there is something inherently wrong with that situation.

    • Replies: @Talha
  206. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    “don’t you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world’s Jews?”

    No, the greatest enemy of Christianity is itself, and the pagan polytheist delusional holes it has dug up.

    To cover one, it digs more, and then some more… while covering none.

    Why do you think your faith is bleeding so many faithful? Its not because of the *beep* Jews, or the Muslims, or the Hindoos, or the mo*beep* fire worshippers!!

    (Okay, maybe I should remove the Hindoos from the list, given the amount of spiritual borrowing you guys have done from their faith; Man-gods and their children, Trinity/Trimurti, Sainthood, Monkhood, etc.)

    Anyway, its all you. Get it.

    “…Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.”
    Yes, white people worshipping white men, who beget children… or is it begetting themselves? Oh boy!!

    My advice, enjoy your glory when you have the chance. Because, you are having none of it later.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  207. Rurik says:
    @Stonehands

    and you impress on me the fact that now murder is acceptable, then something as innocuous as “rape” under these circumstances, should be expected

    no

    killing an enemy soldier during a war is different than dragging ten year old girls out of their houses and into the mud and raping them to death

    there are honorable ways to wage war (I suppose, even tho I’m against war on principle), and then there are sub-human animals in uniform that deserve to be shot like dogs

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  208. Talha says:
    @Latvian woman

    Hey LW,

    Point one: don’t feed the trolls.

    Point two:

    Sunnis who lived in slums

    Plenty of Sunnis lived in slums. They are the majority population so of course you are going to have a good number of them down-and-out. But there are also plenty of well-to-do Sunnis in Syria as well. Now many of them are secular-minded, but just because you are a Sunni doesn’t necessarily mean you have no choice but fail in Syria – talking about the situation before the war, of course. I personally know many religious-minded Syrian Sunnis that did well both in Syria and in the US – seriously high-rollers – mashaAllah!

    Peace.

  209. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Harold Smith

    “the post 9/11 office of “president” of the U.S.”

    The post 911 president was Bush. A born again kook, quite like you.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  210. annamaria says:
    @Rurik

    The ziocons’ arrogance could bring the whole Eretz Israel project to an abrupt end. They still do not get it.

    • Agree: Rurik
  211. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    “but I would want to see all traitors to this republic (and the principles upon which it was built), tried, and if convicted.”

    Your republic was built on principles of genocide. To this day, it continues to thrive on, Deceit, Lies, Hypocrisy, Large Scale Thievery and Wanton Murder.

    White folks (all kinds) have been the greatest murderers of all time.

    In other words, “your” patently obvious genocidal and psychopathic urges are ingrained in your race itself.

    It is no wonder that psychopaths have been quite high achievers. You guys prove it.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  212. @Avery

    Someone clearly needs their meds.

    • Replies: @Avery
  213. Hi Talha,

    Ok, thanks for explaining, I wasn’t entirely sure. Of course, there are “high rollers”, what matters is the structural inequality (if such exists, it helps explain the conflict better, that the poor are gravitating towards Salafism).

    • Replies: @Talha
  214. Rurik says:
    @Anonymous

    My advice, enjoy your glory when you have the chance. Because, you are having none of it later.

    I agree

    I suppose the only things we disagree on are that you’re expecting to have your ‘glory’ later, (good luck with that)

    I have no beef with Christians (or any religious people, except perhaps OT Zionism, or imperial religions, like some sects of Islam)

    But I do despise the parts of Christianity that tell their flock to suffer the transgressions of their enemies, and passively forgive them all trespasses. This is suicidal madness and cowardice. But then as soon as a Christian starts to act with volition and fortitude, right away he believes the thing to do is go kill Muslims for the greater glory of Israel.

    so the Christians have a lot of cleaning house to do

  215. Rurik says:
    @Anonymous

    White folks (all kinds) have been the greatest murderers of all time.

    In other words, “your” patently obvious genocidal and psychopathic urges are ingrained in your race itself.

    Hillary!

    what brings you to the Unz Review?

    what’s ingrained in white people is simply what’s ingrained in all humans, except in white people it is far, far more evolved. So just as we’re the most deadly warriors, we too are the world greatest doctors and inventors and scientists and explorers and creators and lovers and philosophers and mathematicians and poets and on and on.

    there are some things however that distinguish us from the other races, like yours 😉

    if you hear of a group of people putting a tire around a woman’s head with gasoline in it, and then lighting the gasoline on fire, then you can be absolutely certain that it was not white people that did that.

    if you hear about a toddler that has been gang raped, well then, again, you can be absolutely certain that it wasn’t white men that did that.

    all the races do have our distinctions, and white people are no different. If you’re typing on a computer inside a building with air conditioning, then every bit of that are a direct consequence of the singular genius of white people.

    I don’t usually bring up such things. I consider it rather crass to do so. It goes against another unique quality of white people, noblesse oblige. But in your case, it certainly is merited.

    the biggest problems facing white people today are the trenchant and intransigent envy of all the butt hurt people in the world that simmer in malignant, toxic bile for having been born the children of a lessor God. It isn’t white people’s fault that they were, but you can never quite explain that to them. It seems to console their butt hurt feelings to imagine all their mediocrity was also created by white people. It wasn’t’. But living in a world of technological miracles that are all a direct expression of the uniquely divine spirit of white people, I guess they can be forgiven for even believing that white people created them as well.

  216. Talha says:
    @Latvian woman

    Hey LW,

    Syria – especially the Sunnis there – is known for its very traditional and orthodox take on Islam and popularity of Sufism. But extremist Salafism takes root in times of conflict. In environments like that, the fittest survive and those extremists are remarkable fit in that they are ruthless and very brave. It is a bit like what happens with competing narco-syndicates – elimination of the competition is swift and over-the-top brutal:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=zetas&espv=2&biw=1344&bih=744&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik77Tb59PPAhVB1mMKHYblCloQ_AUICCgD

    The longer this conflict goes on, the longer that mentality has time to take root.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Latvian woman
  217. @Rurik

    You are repeating the same old tired banker propaganda….

    Maybe if you dump dumb bombs and dioxin on farmers like John Mccain, from 30,000 feet, you can feel pretty noble, but when the murders are up close and personal and relentless- you will be changed forever… all the ribbons and phony medals and chest- salad notwithstanding…we have never been anything but hired guns for the banking Mafia…you are virtue signalling by calling the rapee a 10 year old….you know damn well the slutty Obama/Clinton whores will get their just desserts, should push come to shove. That goes for all the fag men and there supporters as well.

  218. @Talha

    Talha,

    I was absolutely not implying that Sunni Syrians are prone to Salafism. This is global (it’s happening in Caucasus too) and it is understandable, from the psychological point of view, why this happens. These recent bombings might just produce more of them (in Europe too).

    • Replies: @Talha
  219. Rurik says:

    we have never been anything but hired guns for the banking Mafia…you are virtue signalling by calling the rapee a 10 year old….you know damn well the slutty Obama/Clinton whores will get their just desserts, should push come to shove. That goes for all the fag men and there supporters as well.

    in the video I posted she was fifteen

    I’ve never been in a war, but I have been in lots of brawls and a few street battles. Men get hurt, sometimes even a gal will join in. I once saw a girl break a longneck beer bottle over a (huge) guy’s head who was busting up her boyfriend. As soon as the bottle broke the hulking dude dropped like a wet sack of dirty laundry. Out like a light.

    But when men like the guy in the video, or the notorious Red Army, or anyone, treats women (or children) with savagery and deliberate cruelty, then something in me just feels disgust and revulsion, even anger. I know there are others who feel the same way.

    if you were talking about someone like Hillary, then that’s different. She deserves whatever hell has waiting for her, and more. Perhaps Dante needs another circle just for her.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @Stonehands
  220. @Anonymous

    “the post 9/11 office of “president” of the U.S.”

    The post 911 president was Bush. A born again kook, quite like you.

    First, you’re supposed to be looking at your monitor, not your mirror, as you type your hapless Jew drivel.

    Second, if you’re implying that Bush is a “Christian”, I suppose I should point out to you that real Christians don’t go around mass-murdering people by way of illegal, immoral wars of aggression based on lies; so he apparently isn’t a real Christian.

    Third, please re-read the whole sentence I wrote. I said:

    “In the person of Obama they apparently have the embodiment of the spirit of Satan, which is exactly the person they need to occupy the most powerful, most unaccountable seat of political power that ever existed on earth – the post 9/11 office of “president” of the U.S.”

    I neither stated nor implied that Obama was the only person to hold the post 9/11 office of president. That Bush also held the office is irrelevant to the point I was making. I was implying that the aggrandizement of executive power was done with Obama in mind. You took a phrase I wrote out of context and misconstrued it. I’m sorry but your lack of reading comprehension reflects poorly on you, not on me.

    Maybe you can find a helpful adult in your neighborhood who can read the comments here and explain them to you in simpler, child-like terms, so you can better understand them.

  221. @Anonymous Smith

    Apparently Mr. Unz hasn’t yet implemented those newly heightened quality standards for comments on this site.

  222. Talha says:
    @Latvian woman

    Hey LW,

    No sweat – I didn’t think you were implying that. I was just adding some info as to why extremist Salafis may be on the rise in Syria whereas they were historically a marginal element (though they were indeed around) unlike in Egypt where they have a large footprint.

    It is a wake-up call to the Muslim community that we are not engaging our youth – globally – as well as we should to inoculate them from this madness.

    Peace.

  223. Talha, that might be impossible, because I don’t see anything out there that is equally fascinating, liberating (and “kick ass”) to a young man than that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  224. @Rurik

    We have laid waste to women and children in the ME for 20 years, cut the crap.

  225. @Rurik

    Keep in mind the Pentagon Papers had the effect of deflecting blame for the Vietnam fiasco away from the CIA and onto the DoD. (Ellsburg worked for RAND at one point.). So then, as now, the tentacles of the intelligence organs were involved.

  226. @Rurik

    You ought to know better…where does your conscience come from?

    Satan is in charge of Retribution. Where does it end, Where does it end?

    Christ is in charge of Reconciliation, He is the Way out of this bloody labyrinth.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  227. @Avery

    The war in the East was nasty. Thank you for providing this little known insight.

  228. @German_reader

    Only 25K? I guess it’s no big deal then.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @German_reader
  229. KA says:
    @German_reader

    “The “Doctrine of Discovery” of 1493, also known as the Papal Bull “Inter Caetera”, was issued by Pope Alexander VI on May 4, 1493. It is arguably the most damaging policy ever enacted in human history. In fact, the 1493 Papal Bull stated that land that was not inhabited by Christians could be claimed and exploited in order to expand and instill the Christian faith.

    After the Berlin Conference of 1884-1885, the Papal Bull of 1493 helped further to enable King Leopold II to legitimize his claim of ownership of the DRC and unrepentantly to treat those in the Congo with devastating atrocities almost directed toward extermination .

    Thomas Aquinas in 1271: “Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the church, but also to be exterminated from the world by death.” http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/03/repudiate-the-doctrine-of-discovery-an-open-letter-to-pope-francis/

    Instead of papal bull we seek justification in freedom ,liberty,progress,and free flow of capitalism to screw and occupy other nations through remote control (like we do inCongo or Honduras or Ethiopia ).

  230. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    25K is in fact a ridiculous undercount promoted by English propagandist Taylor and members of the despicable German Lumpenintelligentsia.

    We’ll probably never know for sure, but it was a lot more than that.

    German court Historian, Jörg Friedrich, in ‘Der Brand’, says around 40K.

    From everything I’ve read, probably more.

  231. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik,
    Harold Smith has already offered a perfect reply to your post, but I still cannot believe you would write stuff like:

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    None of what you wrote is even remotely true, nichts, nada!
    On the contrary, the N.S leadership understood the US threat very well & did its best to ignore the various US provocations. Including aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in violation of American neutrality and international law, US acts of war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke conflict, etc.
    In fact, they knew that the FDR admin. was already trying to cook up a war in Europe as early as 1938, i.e, b4 the war had even started.

  232. […] – Is The U.S. Preparing A “False Flag” Bombing? 27. The Unz Report: The Saker, Russian Options Against a US Attack on Syria. 28. The National Interest: Rajan Menon, American Military Intervention Can’t Save Syria. 29. […]

  233. @L.K

    You are right, the US was already surreptitiously at war with Germany by 1941 (with active aid to Britain and the SU as well as provocative measures against German forces), the Germans wisely avoided the bait as long as they could. I am still not clear why they formally declared war, however; it was completely unnecessary. It wasn’t the reason the Germans ultimately lost, but it certainly didn’t help matters.

    BTW, it’s well known that the German generals had a low opinion of American soldiers. Not surprising, then as now they specialize in fighting opponents at their weakest.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  234. Avery says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    That would be you, homes.

    btw: that line is so worn out, that when someone uses it, they advertise their total inability of original thought.

  235. Avery says:
    @Rurik

    {the terrible ravages of the Red Army Rapists are a well known and well documented fact Avery, all of your revisionism to the contrary. And it was all encouraged by the Soviet command. (and their Jewish propagandists)}

    Rurik: go ahead and factually debunk this:
    [Translation: The Red Army “Rape of Germany” was Invented by Goebbels]
    http://akarlin.com/2013/05/red-army-rape-myth/

    As to revisionism: I will re-post what I wrote above.
    {btw: {the (very real) suffering that happened in Leningrad was due to the exigencies of war. } [Rurik’s revisionist excuse for deliberate murder of Leningrad civilians by engineered starvation as policy of an illegal, war-criminal invader: what were Nazi Germans doing around Leningrad in the first place]

    Pretty nice, revisionist way to classify the deliberate war-crime starving of the civilian population of Leningrad by invading Nazis as war ‘exigence’.

    Maybe the firebombing of Dresden was also – you know – ‘war exigence’?}

    • Replies: @Rurik
  236. Talha says:
    @Latvian woman

    Hey LW,

    I know what you mean – there is a hadith that states; “Youth is a type of madness.”

    People like Hemingway felt the pull to either report on or join the resistance in the Spanish Civil War as volunteers. Obviously, Daesh is not like that on a moral level, but I think it is much like the pull for young men toward gangs or drug cartels* (just with a ‘religious’ ideology on top).

    And though it’s great for breaking stuff down, one does not build a society on ‘kicking ass’…as our young Marines found out after routing Saddam’s army in Iraq.

    Peace.

    *If you look at some of the pictures of the Zetas or MS13 – they will often execute people in a very gruesome way to send a message and you will often see them stand around with masks taking pictures of themselves with the people they are about to execute – in fact it’s often impossible to tell the difference in the scene if not for the flag or symbolism in the background.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  237. Miro23 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    BTW, it’s well known that the German generals had a low opinion of American soldiers.

    And not only the German generals:

    “The Americans are a completely unpredictable crowd. In a tight corner, the British are infinitely more courageous than they are – there’s no comparison! How they have the nerve to cast aspersions on the British passes my comprehension.”
    Hitler’s Table Talk. Conversation Nº302, 28th August 1942

  238. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    None of what you wrote is even remotely true, nichts, nada!

    “WHAT is America but beauty queens, millionaires, stupid records and Hollywood?”

    ~ A.H.

    this seems measured and basically what I’ve always understood:

    In Hitler and America, historian Klaus P. Fischer seeks to understand more deeply how Hitler viewed America, the nation that was central to Germany’s defeat. He reveals Hitler’s split-minded image of America: America and Amerika. Hitler would loudly call the United States a feeble country while at the same time referring to it as an industrial colossus worthy of imitation. Or he would belittle America in the vilest terms while at the same time looking at the latest photos from the United States, watching American films, and amusing himself with Mickey Mouse cartoons. America was a place that Hitler admired—for the can-do spirit of the American people, which he attributed to their Nordic blood—and envied—for its enormous territorial size, abundant resources, and political power. Amerika, however, was to Hitler a mongrel nation, grown too rich too soon and governed by a capitalist elite with strong ties to the Jews.

    http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/14851.html

    In fact, they knew that the FDR admin. was already trying to cook up a war in Europe as early as 1938, i.e, b4 the war had even started.

    I’m sure they were at it even before that. FDR’s regime, like all recent US regimes, was a den of Jewish supremacists. Of course they hated Hitler. And Hitler should have known that. And not have gotten played into their wars, like they’re tying to do to Putin today.

    The Bolshevik revolution was funded by NYC banksters, and Hitler had to know that. So many blunders…

    • Replies: @Miro23
  239. Rurik says:
    @Avery

    by engineered starvation as policy of an illegal, war-criminal invader: what were Nazi Germans doing around Leningrad in the first place]

    you say “illegal, war-criminal invader” like it’s a bad thing

    when we all know that engineered starvation was a favorite tool of the allies, like when they starved Germany after the first world war into slavery.

    and as for “illegal, war-criminal invader”… what was Stalin if not exactly that?

    Did not Stalin and your heroic Soviet Red army invade Poland, and then round up the “best of the Gentiles” to be slaughtered at places like Katyn? Eh?

    Let me ask you this Avery.. If the Russian revolution had never happened, and Russia was still being ruled by Czar Nicholas with his German wife, and behaving for all practical purposes like a reasonable neighbor and minding its own bussniess, do you think Hitler would have invaded Russia anyways?

    or

    Did Hitler and the Nazis invade Russia because (just like America today) Russia was under the thrall of a genocidal and murderous fiend, hell bent on rounding up all the “best of the Gentiles”, and putting a bullet in their skulls. When they weren’t starving the “best of the Gentiles” with an excruciatingly cruel and slow death by the millions?

    The horrors of the Soviet gulags were not always a carefully kept secret, like how the NYT described the mass starvation of the Ukrainian peasant class as ‘the grumblings of a few greedy people who didn’t want to become part of the great ‘worker’s paradise collective’.

    So many horrors and such evil. But the narrative we’ve all been sold has been one-sided, with Hitler and the Nazis as always the devil and everybody else as the ‘good guys’. Pure and utter bullshit. Stalin was worse than Hitler in every way. He murdered more of his own citizens than Hitler ever did, and he did so for the very worst reasons possible, because they had ability and didn’t want to be Stalin’s and his Jewish minion’s – slaves.

    If there were a shred of integrity to your version of what happened during those terrible times, you would not try to leave out Stalin and the Soviet Jew’s genocidal hatred of all people of ability who refused to be slaves, and just concentrate on Germany attacking Russia, as if they did so because they were just evil and Russia was just a nice, friendly country minding its own business, when the evil Nazis came marching in. That’s utter bullshit and to spread that manure, means you haven’t a shred of truth in ya.

    • Replies: @Avery
  240. Miro23 says:
    @Rurik

    “He reveals Hitler’s split-minded image of America: America and Amerika. Hitler would loudly call the United States a feeble country while at the same time referring to it as an industrial colossus worthy of imitation.”

    This seems to be exactly right.

    A.H. said, “I don’t see much future for the Americans. In my view it’s a decayed country. And they have their racial problem, and the problem of social inequalities. Those were what caused the downfall of Rome, and yet Rome was a solid edifice that stood for something. Moreover the Romans were inspired by great ideas. Nothing of the sort in England today. As for the Americans, that kind of thing is non-existent. ”

    And also, “The great success of the Americans consists essentially of the fact that they produce quantitatively as much as we do with two-thirds less labour. We’ve always been hypnotized by the slogan: “The craftsmanship of the German worker”.
    ……. “In America everything is machine made , so they can employ the most utter cretins in their factories.”

  241. The Germans and the Russians and the English should have been left to their own devices…you’ll never convince intelligent people from my tribe that it’s worth dieing for this bank or that bank.

  242. @Talha

    Hi, Talha!

    If you look at some of the pictures of the Zetas or MS13 – they will often execute people in a very gruesome way to send a message and you will often see them stand around with masks taking pictures of themselves with the people they are about to execute

    Do you think that these animals can/should be redeemed, no matter what the cost to the society that they infect? Or, would you agree with me that these violent animals are basically irredeemable and should be exterminated on the spot…or, very shortly after a quick but fair trail, like the Chinese do?

    in fact it’s often impossible to tell the difference in the scene if not for the flag or symbolism in the background.

    Just one more question, Talha: What’s the one thing that all of these kinds of people, and criminals in general, have in common…what is the nexus of their problem?

    • Replies: @Talha
  243. Rurik says:
    @Stonehands

    where does your conscience come from?

    not from a book

    Christ is in charge of Reconciliation, He is the Way out of this bloody labyrinth.

    how well has He been working out for ya?

    look around, it’s the Christians who’re the biggest cowards and Zio-grovelers out there.

    do you see even one Christian leader who’s willing to take on the fiend by the horns of its head?

    the man with the most nads today in all of America: (Trump) Does not seem to me like your typical Christian; all blubbery-eyed like Gary Bauer licking Zionist feet or charlatans like the TV preachers demanding money and promising Rapture if only we can slaughter enough of Jesus’s living relatives in Palestine.

    where are the Christians who show some fortitude in plotting a course out of the “bloody Labyrinth” Stonehands?

    or is the solution just to get on your knees and offer your cheeks to your enemies to do with as they please?

    • Agree: Anonymous Smith
  244. mad1 says:
    @Stonehands

    The pathetic male populations weekend revolves around “watching” instead of participating. The proof is their sitting in front of some giant flat screen T.V. for 3 hours to watch a one hour game.

    Actually the DVR has shown there is only about 25 minutes of action in an average pro football game, it’s worse than you thought.

    • LOL: Talha
  245. @Beefcake the Mighty

    No, it was a lot, and I tend to regard it as a war crime (as well as similar bombings like that of Pforzheim which was proportionally even worse), but what’s the point in getting agitated about these things today? I’m more concerned about the present and the future.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  246. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Smith

    Hey A. Smith,

    Everyone that can be redeemed should be redeemed. Everyone has a right to a fair trial – justice demands this. Being a Muslim, I have zero problems with capital punishment. In traditional rulings, people that committed this kind of banditry/highway robbery, etc. were killed and had their bodies displayed publicly as a deterrent – usually the body was displayed on a cross. Also traditionally, the government simply determined the guilt of the party in these kinds of cases – it was in the hands of the families if they wanted to; forgive, ask for blood money compensation or have the culprit executed – thus they are the ones making decisions (as the family of the victim) on whether they feel the culprit is redeemable or not.

    However, this all comes down to the initial question of whether or not drugs should be illegal in the first place and if so, the proper methods of interdiction.

    what is the nexus of their problem?

    To me it’s a spiritual problem at the core – all the rest are details:
    “Love of this world is the root of all evil.” – hadith reported in Bayhaqi

    “If the son of Adam had a valley full of gold, he would want to have two valleys. Nothing fills his mouth except dust*, and God will forgive whoever repents to Him.” – reported in Muslim

    Peace.

    *This has been explained as an expression by the scholars that the avarice of man’s greed will only be satiated when his belly is filled with the dust of his grave. Then he will realize finally exactly just how much of this earth he is truly fated to ‘own’.

  247. @Rurik

    “how well has He been working out for ya?

    look around, it’s the Christians who’re the biggest cowards and Zio-grovelers out there.

    do you see even one Christian leader who’s willing to take on the fiend by the horns of its head?”

    See- the thing is Rurik- Christ’s church consists of a local called out assembly. We tend to be masons, plumbers, carpenters, electricians,bakers and laborers. Some of us “own” our own small businesses. Some are civil servants. Some are teachers. We have a flat heirarchy There are no “leaders”. Only Christ is our leader and is present in the Holy Spirit
    But, in the meantime- until He returns -we all get up in the morning and put in a full, healthy, hard days work, and pray thanksgiving for each meal and the rains that sustain us with fresh water.
    THESE people are the heroes.

    Not George Washington, or Adolph Hitler, or Gary Bauer..or some pope..

    Madison Ave, and Hollyweird,through the TV and sports, inculcates children with a hall of fame type mentality. They inculcate them with the notion that in America-Money- is a sure sign of virtue.

    We,OTH, work hard, are sober, school our own children through college- and refuse gov handouts.
    We evangelize sinners.
    This is how we fight back.

    God is not concerned with your pecuniary interests, nor your material comfort..
    But…
    Godliness with contentment is great gain.

    A wise man once said “He that wont be governed by God, will be ruled by tyrants”

    ….and that my friend is where you find yourself …among degenerate Americans.

    • Replies: @Talha
  248. @Rurik

    Hey, Rurik!

    Just a quick notice: When the SHTF, I will be offering a FREE Rapturing service to any and all Christians who come into my field of view. This FREE Rapturing service will be made available to all Christians regardless of their sect or denomination…however, I will pay close, special attention to the dispensationalists! Rapturing’s can be instantaneous (on sight), or they can administered more gradually, taking hours, or even days, to complete…no matter how long it takes, though, the Rapturing will be FREE!

    God willing, I will be able to Rapture 100 Christian souls per week (a good week indeed!). This FREE service will be available as long as I’m alive. In addition, I will be offering specials throughout the Apocalypse…Pretty Christian ladies (married or not, makes no difference to me) will periodically be selected for special ‘Adam and Eve’ sessions to be administered in the Inner Sanctum of my lair; to be followed by a FREE Rapturing! These extra services are also FREE of charge!

    But, wait! This FREE Rapturing service will also be available to Jews and Muslims, as well as Cultural Marxists, anyone who looks at me funny, and all peoples of color!

    Praise be, the Lord’s generosity is boundless!!

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  249. @Talha

    Not all Salafis are murderers (if the peaceful part of them lived isolated like the Amish, for instance, there would be no problem with them), but you have to understand that some people probably become Salafists out of desperation – for instance, after their families have been killed or maimed by foreign bombing campaigns.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    , @Talha
  250. @Talha

    Hey, Talha!

    Everyone has a right to a fair trial – justice demands this.

    My sense of fairness may be a bit different than yours. In my opinion, the financial costs of administering justice should always be a consideration. Did you know that in California it costs approximately $315 Million per inmate to carryout an execution? That’s from the start of the trial through to the transfer of the body after the execution. Where, I ask you, is the justice in that?! The Chinese do it right…they take the convict into a soundproof chamber and pump a .30 cent slug into the back of his head.

    As for my second question, ‘what is the nexus of their problems’, I ask that of all the intelligent people I bump into on the interwebs, and in real life. In my opinion, the thread that runs through all instances of criminality is incompetent/inept parenting. I watched a video of an FBI psychologist giving a really good analogy of what it takes to make a sadistic psychopath…it goes something like this: Genetics loads the gun; the environment (parenting) aims the gun; and the individual circumstance pulls the trigger.

    So, I’m a big believer in training for competent parenting. Unfortunately, no such training exists anywhere in the world. Talk about the greatest oversight in the Galaxy! How we have not been able to figure this out by now is quite beyond me. I blame religions for this tangled up mess. It would have been so easy to leave out a one of the stupider commandments, like ‘Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy’, and put a suggestion for competent parenting in its place. In the religions of the Terrible Trio, competence in worldly affairs is frowned upon…so, we end up with the horrible mess we find ourselves in today.

    • Replies: @Talha
  251. @Latvian woman

    “…some people probably become Salafists out of desperation – for instance, after their families have been killed or maimed by foreign bombing campaigns.”

    I know that would drive me over the edge.

  252. Talha says:
    @Stonehands

    Well…stated…much respect.

    “Wealth is in the heart and poverty is in the heart. Whoever is wealthy in his heart will not be harmed no matter what happens in the world. Whoever is impoverished in his heart will not be satisfied no matter how much he has in the world. Verily, he will only be harmed by the greed of his own soul.” – reported in the Mu’jam al Kabir of Imam Tabarani (ra)

    May God grant you grace to raise your kids with good morals and protect them.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Stonehands
  253. Talha says:
    @Latvian woman

    Hey LW,

    Totally agree – I have known a number of Salafis and most of them have been decent people. I may disagree with their revisionist approach to sacred knowledge, but many are just normal and sane – which is why I generally use the term Salafi/Wahhabi extremists in my posts on purpose.

    Unfortunately, their approach tends to lend itself to being much more vulnerable to extremism because it isn’t under the umbrella of the living tradition of the past 14 centuries.

    And again, I totally agree, like in Chechnya (traditionally very Sufi and Orthodox – which is still trying to undo a lot of the Salafi extremism that came in), the devastating wars were magnets for extremist ideologies.

    It’s funny you mention the Amish; I heard an interview with a Muslim scholar in which he described most run-of-the-mill Wahhabis as being as harmless as grumpy Amish people.

    Peace.

  254. annamaria says:
    @Talha

    Thank you for the words of wisdom.

    • Replies: @Talha
  255. Of course, Russian options include giving up… The problem with this option is that US attack is not a one-time attack, not two attacks, etc. US is conducting what they already did in Iraq and elsewhere: this is SOFTENING THE ENEMY DEFENCES prior to the full war. Therefore, the longer such attacks will be ignored, the more devastating will be the full war.
    (My web site can be unaccessible – see Google cached. No such method for my email.)

  256. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Smith

    Hey A. Smith,

    $315 Million

    You’ve got to be pulling my leg – are you sure? Can you cite a source? That is the cost of like 15-20 F-16s!!!

    I didn’t say we need to keep them in jail after the trial – execute justice shortly after (my preference is let the family of the victim decide the fate).

    I agree with you on the issue of parenting. Not sure why you think the Abrahamic faiths have nothing to say on raising children well though. I am constantly gaining insight on child-rearing from my tradition and the advice of my teachers. I’m sure others are also – though the prerequisite for this is a stable family unit in the first place.

    In the religions of the Terrible Trio, competence in worldly affairs is frowned upon

    Not sure about this either – in their heyday the Persian and Arab polymaths of the Muslim world were not only scientists (of various fields; medicine, botany, physics, mathematics, demographics, etc.) but also accredited and recognized theologians; Imams Biruni (ra), Razi (ra), Ibn Rushd (ra), Ibn an-Nafis (ra), Ibn Khaldun (ra) – just to name a few.

    That’s not even taking into account the numerous Christian monks that were often at work in scientific endeavors in their monasteries. Not to mention Sir Isaac Newton, though not your normal Nicene-Creed Christian, took the Bible seriously enough to write exegesis on portions of it.

    And the Jews, well…their biggest name is Maimonides who was both a Rabbi of the highest rank and a scientist and physician. His skill was such in both spheres that Jews of today consider his rulings as the final verdict on many issues and he was the chief physician of the Ayyubid Dynasty of Egypt.

    Suggested reading:
    https://www.amazon.com/Knowledge-Triumphant-Concept-Medieval-Classics/dp/9004153861

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  257. Talha says:
    @annamaria

    Hey annamaria,

    Most welcome, though not my words…just passing them along. I was inspired to add to some of the good stuff Stonehands brought to the discussion. I like to keep optimistic in these times – sure you can’t save the world, but you can affect change in your children and family and those around you. And if enough of us can, then these will affect the change we desperately need in the world – it took us a while to get to this state, it will take us a while to get out.

    Your children will inherit your wealth and they will also inherit your morals and values – ultimately, that is the sounder legacy to leave behind. I try to pray every day for the well-being of my parents, and theirs, and theirs…all the way up the tree – I hope my following generations will include me in their prayers as well. Will I be a household name like Caesar or Napoleon? No. Likely my name will be forgotten within a century of my demise as with the vast majority of human beings that ever tread on this earth – just ephemeral specks of dust visible only for the moment that they cross the ray of light…but that doesn’t matter if one doesn’t care.

    “My soul is from elsewhere, I’m sure of that, and I intend to end up there.” ― Maulana Rumi (ra)

    Peace.

  258. @Talha

    Talha, the Apostle Paul stated that we ” see through a glass darkly” this is especially true with regards to the anonymity of the net. At some point, I would like to shed this security blanket and exchange ideas directly- we lose out through the ponderous pecking on a keyboard- skype is the future for real debate.

    With regards to usery:

    The Catholic church emerged as the hegemon, the pope inheriting power from -and legal title- as Pontifex Maximus [ the high priest of the pagan mystery religion at Pergamon] around 360 ad.

    Don’t confuse this abomination with there ostentatious cathedrals and their corporate philanthropy[ this is after all -the banking Leviathan] with the itinerant preachers who refused to baptize their children into this abomination.

    The truth is that Roman Catholicism did not represent Christ and was not His Church. For at least a thousand years before the Reformation the true church was composed of multitudes of simple Christians who were not part of the Roman system. That such believers existed, refused to be called ‘Catholics,’ and worshiped independently of the Roman hierarchy is history. It is a fact that they were pursued to imprisonment and death since at least the end of the fourth century….

    Do not be deceived. The Catholic church will post their scholarly assertions that all these successionist christian movements were in gross error, that they didn’t believe in the incarnation, and they were Manichaens! [ the most popular slander].

    The Catholic solution was to lay siege- to genocide all evangelical men women and their children- to put them to
    the stake en masse… to give them a “3rd” baptism … drowning.

    Their historical record thus “cleansed ” the RC church was free to make spurious and slanderous
    assertions.

    So, in answer to your question- it is not “us ” who are the userers but the vestiges of Imperial Rome.

    Always good to hear from you.

    • Replies: @Talha
  259. @Anonymous Smith

    “God willing, I will be able to Rapture 100 Christian souls per week (a good week indeed!). This FREE service will be available as long as I’m alive. In addition, I will be offering specials throughout the Apocalypse…Pretty Christian ladies (married or not, makes no difference to me) will periodically be selected for ……blah..blah..blah”

    But you are a self -proclaimed junky…

    … and I am a life long hunter and tea- totaler.

    Who do you think has the steadier hands, punk?

  260. @German_reader

    Fair point, but it definitely was a war crime, no uncertainty about it.

    The point not to agitate about the past, but rather to correct a distorted view of the past that animates the present. Remember what Orwell said about controlling the past in relation to the future.

  261. Avery says:
    @Rurik

    {That’s utter bullshit and to spread that manure, means you haven’t a shred of truth in ya.}

    Throwing out dust and smoke and a lot of BS words will not help you.
    I asked you to debunk a well reasoned, fact-based rebuttal by Karlin.

    Here it is again:
    [
    {the terrible ravages of the Red Army Rapists are a well known and well documented fact Avery, all of your revisionism to the contrary. And it was all encouraged by the Soviet command. (and their Jewish propagandists)}

    Rurik: go ahead and factually debunk this:
    [Translation: The Red Army “Rape of Germany” was Invented by Goebbels]
    http://akarlin.com/2013/05/red-army-rape-myth/
    ]

    Since it was the second time you chose to ignore it, I will assume you ignore it because you are unable to factually rebut it.

    So, Rurik: which one of us two is the one ‘…spreading utter BS like it is manure…who has no shred of truth….’
    If and when you rebut Karlin, we will discuss Stalin, et. al.

  262. @Talha

    Hello, Talha

    I couldn’t find the original article that I drew my info from, but I found this one…

    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/20/local/la-me-adv-death-penalty-costs-20110620

    “…in their heyday the Persian and Arab polymaths of the Muslim world were not only scientists…”

    When was their heyday? How about today…can you give me an example of a polymath Imam scientist alive today? Aren’t Jews, Christians, and Muslims always complaining about how wicked the world is and how they should always focus on God in heaven, not the material world? All religions do that, don’t they? Every time I tell a Christian about some heinous thing that has taken place I almost always get the same response, they say “Well, this is Satan’s world.”

    You’re a convert to Islam, right? Why are converts always more pious than the people who are raised up in the religion? lol

    The Jews are parasites suffering from delusions of grandeur; the Christians are craven do-nothings, and dutiful servants to the Jews; and the Muslims are fanatical tyrant’s looking to destroy the infidels! These are my opinions, and they will most likely never change. All three of these religions are responsible for untold suffering in this world…this widespread suffering will continue until we destroy the Terrible Trio. It is the Jews who cause the most harm to the peoples of the world; secretly manipulating Christians and Muslims, pitting them against each other for their own profit. But, the Muslims do their fair share…how many suicide bombers have we seen in the last 20 years? 5,000? 10,000? How many of their fellow Muslims have they killed? 250,000? 500,000? More? Christians destroy in a couple of ways…first, they passively/actively support the murderous campaigns of the US/NATO; second, they passively allow every type of evil to manifest in the countries where they dominate…this is a passive-aggressive attack on the non-believers in their midst. This second example is why the Jews are able to so easily establish their criminal networks in Christian nations and profit from the evils they create.

    So, you may present me with great Muslim’s of the distant past as examples of the divine nature of Islam…but, all I have to do is point to the latest car-bombing in Iraq, or the maniacal ravings of a sociopathic cleric, and your argument crumbles to dust. The doctrines of the Terrible Trio do not always produce peaceful, happy people…they very often produce murderous fiends that blindly, and violently lash out at a world that refuses to conform to their beliefs.

    Death to Judaism!

    Death to Islam!

    Death to Christianity!

    Destroy the Terrible Trio!

    The peoples of the world deserve better! 🙂

    • Replies: @Talha
  263. As per usual Saker exaggerates American imperial power. To my mind he is an American shrill in liberal guise. Investigation shows most of his many assertions on international politics are dated to the era of US military ascendency some two decades ago. There is no way a feeble disunited NATO can match Russia militarily and the US is a decade or more behind Russia in missile systems and electromagnetic warfare technology. Further any war with Russia would immediately involve China, Iran and Nth Korea to name only a few Russian allies. This the Saker ignores thus illustrating the unreality of his geo-political world-view. It would be the West that would be outmatched qualitatively and quantitatively as its military is tired, worn and over-extended with new equipment inventories lagging behind, as the F35 lemon shows. Any war will be nasty, brutish and short for all concerned. And nothing of the Empire would remain at the end of it.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  264. Talha says:
    @Stonehands

    Hey Stonehands,

    with regards to the anonymity of the net

    I agree with you here – the medium tends to bring out the worst in a lot of people. Stuff that they would never exhibit face to face.

    I don’t think anybody can argue with that historical record. Non-Chalcedonian Christians (do you belong to one of those older strands or one of the post-Reformation ones? no need to answer if this is too personal) often fled into surrounding areas or had their own church leaders pressured (and often tortured) over heresy by Byzantine authorities. This came into play on a massive scale as they lost territory after territory to the initial Muslim expansion and the resident Christians often cooperated with the conquerors who gave them more breathing room (as Prof. Mark Graham has written about):
    “Several accounts exist of Nestorian and Monophysite bishops actually encouraging their congregations to submit to—or even embrace—political rule of the Muslims because they knew that Muslims would necessarily be more tolerant to their faith than their former Byzantine masters who insisted, under persecution, on Chalcedonian orthodoxy.”
    http://visionandvalues.org/docs/abused/Graham.pdf?dcdd03

    They basically lost Manzikert and most of Anatolia based on the same faulty policy.

    Anyway, that’s all history (important as it is)…and putting Christian sectarian differences aside (I don’t feel qualified to judge the claims of legitimacy of one from another)…as far as praxis – does your flock then not engage in usury-based transactions or savings? That would be very cool indeed! I haven’t met a Christian yet that honestly tried to keep to that principle.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @Stonehands
  265. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Smith

    Hey A. Smith,

    OK – that number makes more sense now it is the total cost per actual execution – meaning bang for the buck versus the number of people actually on death row.

    When was their heyday?

    Probably starting under the Caliph Harun Rashid (ra) to the sack of Baghdad (1258) – though recent research has shown it continued well into the 15th century in certain areas.

    How about today…can you give me an example of a polymath Imam scientist alive today?

    No. Two reasons:
    1) The earlier Muslim generations were better than we are and God graced them to accomplished more than we ever could as individuals.
    2) The amount of knowledge has quantitatively expanded at such a rate that it is impossible for human beings to have such comprehensive knowledge any more. There will be no more Galens or al-Khwarezmis – most human beings can only master a niche of a niche of the current sciences. Newton was a genius, but most people can be taught all of his discoveries by high school or shortly after.

    they should always focus on God in heaven, not the material world? All religions do that, don’t they?

    Correct – keep your eyes on the prize. This world is the realm of trial and tribulation – this is not paradise. Paradise comes later if you’ve dealt with life in the right way.
    “And in the Hereafter there is terrible punishment, or forgiveness from God and His good pleasure, whereas the life of the world is but matter of illusion.” (57:20)

    60, 70, 80 years, then poof – you’re gone and will be forgotten like millions before you. Then what? Nothing? Or do you move forward? It’s all Pascal’s wager – is one confident with the hand he has or is it time to turn in some cards? Stake’s are very high.

    Why are converts always more pious than the people who are raised up in the religion?

    I’m not a convert, but my wife is and I know plenty. And it’s for the same reason that a billionaire values the wealth that he struggled to make himself far more than his offspring who simply inherited it. The initial generation of Muslims (upon whom our religion is built) were the best from us and were all converts.

    The doctrines of the Terrible Trio do not always produce peaceful, happy people

    No not always…

    they very often produce murderous fiends that blindly, and violently lash out at a world that refuses to conform to their beliefs.

    Depends on your definition of ‘very often’. Sure there are horrible Jews, Christians and Muslims around. And there are also horrible Buddhists:
    “The Rohingya Muslim community of the military-dominated Southeast Asian nation, which is now officially known as Myanmar, has been systematically persecuted and expunged from the national narrative — often at the behest of powerful extremist groups from the country’s majority Buddhist population and even government authorities — to the point where complete extermination is a possibility, according to a damning new study by the International State Crime Initiative (ISCI) at the Queen Mary University of London.”
    http://time.com/4089276/burma-rohingya-genocide-report-documentary/

    And horrible Hindus – perhaps you haven’t heard of Hindutva extremists.

    If you are going to advocate ‘no religion’ as a solution, then you are going to have to convince people why they should simply ignore the mass killings and violence under anti-religion banners such as those of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

    And you are completely ignoring all the good work that religious people do; donate their time, energy and money to help those in need and advocate for peace – have you never heard of the late Father Berrigan?

    Otherwise if you have a better religious paradigm (‘peoples of the world deserve better’), advocate it and see how many respond. If you are the oracle of this new path, well, you have already advocated killing people who ‘look at you funny’ in case of a societal collapse – why should one take your claims of a peaceful new order seriously? Most people simply won’t be satisfied with a nihilist approach to destroy the ‘old order’ – what do you propose to replace it with? I suggest reading into Nietzsche first before you assume a better order will arise from the ashes.

    I will tell you though, transcendent monotheism is a very, very tough idea to challenge – and it has proven itself historically quite resilient and very fit (in evolutionary selective terms). Wherever there is lack of religion, there seem to be a lack of will to form stable families and have the necessary children to perpetuate the human species. Do you know anti-religious couples that have 3 kids? What about 2? I’m sure they are out there, but are they in any significant numbers that will keep themselves going? How about yourself, are you a father? In general terms, anti-religion seems to be the worst thing one can advocate if they want to keep their society going past a few generations.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  266. @Talha

    Hello, Talha. Wow! You spent a lot of time on your post, thank you for your concern! 😉

    Now, what would you say the ratio of bad Muslims to bad Buddhists is? 150,000:1? 200,000:1?That looks about right to me, what do you think?

    And you are completely ignoring all the good work that religious people do; donate their time, energy and money to help those in need and advocate for peace

    With a state-of-the-art competent-parent training program in place, their donations would be completely unnecessary. By foolishly encouraging any idiot with reproductive organs to have as many children as possible, you’re going to end up with a barrel full of bad apples…i.e. poor wretches who need handouts to survive.

    As far as promoting a better religious paradigm…well, here’s my plan: Some years after the Jew/Christian/Muslim instigated Apocalypse, after most of you are skeletonized, I will gather the ragged remains of the white race unto me and I will teach them about the Flotation Tank, Self-Hypnosis/Autogenic Training, and all that I know about Tibetan Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and Qabalah…I will give them the tools they will need to find their own path to salvation. And after I teach them all that stuff, I will teach them to kill every Jew, Christian, and Muslim they come across.

    ps…Have I warned you about the upcoming badness? You know, the Big Event? If not, consider this a friendly warning. Now, you can’t say you weren’t warned. I like to do this so that my conscience is crystal clear…every thing that happens to you is on you.

    • Replies: @Talha
  267. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Smith

    Hey A. Smith,

    No problem. About the ratio, I’m not sure but that seems too high. I will readily admit there are more violent Muslims in the world than Buddhists – hands down. It is an unfortunate side-effect of any community that still takes religion quite seriously while much of the world has come to the conclusion “religion doesn’t matter.”

    By foolishly encouraging any idiot…poor wretches who need handouts to survive.

    Free will is a package deal. You have the right to make choices and so do the ugly or unintelligent. I’m fine with handouts as long as they are voluntarily given – my teachers have taught me that the folly and mistakes of others are opportunities God creates for us to avail of giving in charity to help them:
    “Those who spend their wealth in the cause of God and follow not up their gifts with reminders of their generosity or with injury – for them, their reward is with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” 2:262

    I will give them the tools they will need to find their own path to salvation. And after I teach them all that stuff, I will teach them to kill every Jew, Christian, and Muslim they come across.

    I see, salvation and good works lie in the killing of others who don’t believe as you do – weren’t you just mentioning how horribly violent the Abrahamic faiths are? No problem. Good luck with your endeavor. You’re setting a very high bar for yourself, I can count on my hands the number of men that successfully got a religion off the ground – very, very hard work.

    Have I warned you about the upcoming badness?

    We were warned about it from the Prophets (pbut) of God already – it seems to have a different ending; the Son of Mary (pbuh) will have his Madina phase and finish what he started.

    Thanks for the warning though – I will make sure not to piss off people meditating in flotation tanks surrounded by guns and ammo.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  268. @Talha

    Before the rise of Luther and Calvin, there lay concealed in almost all the countries of Europe, particularly in Bohemia, Moravia, Switzerland and Germany, many persons who adhered tenaciously to the doctrines of the 1st century church and Jewish scriptures. The Waldensians or peoples of the Alpine valleys practiced credo [believers] baptism as opposed to pedo [infant] baptism and immersion. This immersion is symbolic of Christs death, burial and resurrection and is an ordinance of obedience to God. Jesus was baptized in like manner for this reason. This does not confer absolution of sin, as this is achieved by Grace through faith; that Jesus’ shedding of royal blood was the eternal – and only- means of remission of sins.

    We Christians are accepted in the presence of a Holy sinless God by literally being in Christ[His bride]…through Faith- not of works, lest we boast!

    Rehmat, if Muslims are people of the book, then where is your blood sacrifice?

    In Gods covenant with Israel blood sacrifice is required,[ as is Faith in the coming Messiah].

    How can Rehmat- a sinner- face a Holy God?

    Remember, we have been cast away from His presence because of The Fall.

    P.S.

    Christ had contempt for the whole monetary system, usury and all.

    Serfs used the barter system as long as possible, [and “money” to pay taxes] every other “advancement” in economics has been a long, steady,planned assault by Satan, a.k.a., the mark of the beast.

    • Replies: @Talha
  269. Talha, the Amish are, of course, pacifist but some Salafist are probably some of the most virulently militant folks on the planet (although I know that there is spiritual, non-physical Jihad, too). My point was – there is nothing wrong with ultra conservative folks if they exist in relative isolation and do not try to impose Califphate (or the Biblical truth, etc) on everyone else regardless of where they live.

    I also find it quite amusing how these recent European converts seem to go out of their way to “practice” the most extreme form of Islam and act like they’re all traditionalist and “medieval”, when this form was invented only a 100 years ago. Like, getting all covered up when, for instance, Tatar or Chechen women only wore small head scarves and their tradition is much older. Do you have any tips on how to put those people in their place? I don’t have a negative bias against them (as long as they don’t act all expansive) but they themselves (the new converts) and the European public need a reality check (they believe this is the real Islam).

    And, it is totally possible to have a conservative family without religion. It may not be the most common type, but some people are pre-disposed to it. You are right that religion often helps, but a lot depends on social norms, too (or the ability to resist them).

    • Replies: @Talha
  270. @Talha

    I will make sure not to piss off people meditating in flotation tanks surrounded by guns and ammo.

    Surrounded by guns and ammo…and lots and lots of food! I don’t have that many guns, really…I chose quality over quantity. Most of my survival bunker is filled with food…and toilet paper! Both will be more valuable than gold.

  271. @Talha

    Oops…my apologies I addressed you as Rehmat!

    • Replies: @Talha
  272. Talha says:
    @Latvian woman

    Hey LW,

    there is nothing wrong with ultra conservative folks if they exist in relative isolation

    Correct, many were basically living in a backwater in the Najd area – the British helped them overthrow the Ottomans and break out of isolation.

    Yeah, about the European converts – it seems many try to overcompensate for their lack of confidence in themselves, some are comfortable with their identity as a Muslim and won’t let other Muslims bully them into adopting – not only Islam – but its cultural manifestation from the Arabian peninsula. This is one of the best articles on the subject by Shaykh Umar Faruq Abdallah (a convert and traditional scholar):
    “For centuries, Islamic civilization harmonized indigenous forms of cultural expression with the universal norms of its sacred law. It struck a balance between temporal beauty and ageless truth and fanned a brilliant peacock’s tail of unity in diversity from the heart of China to the shores of the Atlantic. Islamic jurisprudence helped facilitate this creative genius. In history, Islam showed itself to be culturally friendly and, in that regard, has been likened to a crystal clear river. Its waters (Islam) are pure, sweet, and life-giving but—having no color of their own—reflect the bedrock (indigenous culture) over which they flow. In China, Islam looked Chinese; in Mali, it looked African. Sustained cultural relevance to distinct peoples, diverse places, and different times underlay Islam’s long success as a global civilization. The religion became not only functional and familiar at the local level but dynamically engaging, fostering stable indigenous Muslim identities and allowing Muslims to put down deep roots and make lasting contributions wherever they went.”
    “By contrast, much contemporary Islamist rhetoric falls far short of Islam’s ancient cultural wisdom, assuming at times an unmitigated culturally predatory attitude. Such rhetoric and the movement ideologies that stand behind it have been deeply influenced by Western revolutionary dialectic and a dangerously selective retrieval and reinterpretation of Islamic scripture in that light. At the same time, however, the Islamist phenomenon is, to no small degree, a byproduct of the grave cultural dislocation and dysfunction of the contemporary Muslim world.”
    http://www.crosscurrents.org/abdallahfall2006.htm

    For instance, here are some female Spanish converts that are using indigenous styles to cover their hair:

    The only answer for these people is that they need to link themselves with the living tradition that will give them both sound sacred knowledge and confidence to be comfortable with their Islamic identity without having to look like Arabs.

    And, it is totally possible to have a conservative family without religion.

    I agree with you, but if we are talking the relevant numbers needed to turn the ship around, these cannot be marginal cases – it has to be a solid block of people. At least in the US – I’m not seeing it happen – in Latvia it may well be different. And remember, I was careful with my terms “In general terms, anti-religion seems to be the worst thing one can advocate if they want to keep their society going past a few generations.”

    People like yourself can see the positive sides to religious traditions, whether they practice it themselves or not.

    Peace.

  273. Talha says: • Website
    @Stonehands

    Hey Stonehands,

    Can’t tell if you are talking to me or Rehmat…but I can take a crack at your questions…

    then where is your blood sacrifice?

    Not necessary, we are asked for our entire beings:
    “Say: ‘My prayer, my rituals, my living, my dying — all belong to God, the Lord of all existence. No associate has He. Thus I have been commanded, and I am the first of those that surrender.’” 6:162-163

    In Gods covenant with Israel blood sacrifice is required

    We are not Bani Israel.

    How can – a sinner – face a Holy God?

    By His very permission and command in the same way as the tradition of the people who followed the prophets Noah (as), Abraham (as), Moses (as), and the Son of Mary (as). You have to remember, we have no problems with the biblical prophets (pbut) – we have an issue with Paul’s teachings. But we agree, we only do the works because we have been commanded so (which are actually for our own benefit in reality), yet they fall short of the majesty of God and will not guarantee salvation – that is only by His mercy and grace:
    “The Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, said, ‘Be deliberate in worship, draw near to God, and give glad tidings. Verily, none of you will enter Paradise because of his deeds alone.’ They asked, ‘Not even you, O Messenger of God?’ The Prophet (pbuh) said, ‘Not even me, unless God grants me mercy from Himself. Know that the most beloved deed to God is that which is done regularly even if it is small.” – reported in Muslim and Bukhari

    we have been cast away from His presence because of The Fall

    We do not believe in the doctrine of Original Sin (neither do the majority of the Jews) – the Prophet Adam (as) asked forgiveness and was granted it. The Fall was simply a means by which he was granted the noble title of God’s vicegerent on earth and a way to reach the testing ground for all of mankind’s future generations. All children are born in purity.

    Christ had contempt for the whole monetary system, usury and all.

    Indeed he did, which is why I’m surprised so many Christians don’t give a hoot about it. Usury is a grave thing in our tradition, it is the only sin in the Qur’an upon which God says “If you do it not (leave it), take notice of war from God…” 2:280

    And Ibn Abbas (ra) stated that on the Day of Judgement, those who did not would be summoned to prepare their arms to battle. With Whom? With the One Who does not lose.

    I agree with you on the monetary system – once we broke with things like silver and gold – the game was up.

    Just a note; I don’t usually go into deep theological discussion at UNZ, because it is not the proper forum – I try to stick to facts and history. But you asked cordially so I responded. If you want to continue the conversation, I suggest reaching me at my google profile at the above ‘Website’ link. Just one note, I don’t debate theology, I am more than willing to answer any questions or get them answered by qualified scholars.

    May God preserve you and your children in these difficult times; and do not deprive me of your prayers.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @anon
  274. Talha says:
    @Stonehands

    No problem bro – all you White guys look alike to us too – 😉

    No harm, no foul – peace and again, much respect.

  275. Thanks, Talha.

    • Replies: @Talha
  276. @Talha

    Talha, thank you again for your kind words and prayers…and I apologize to the UNZ commentariat for straying off topic.

    The panic among the elite is palpable, now.

    I am disillusioned, cynical, disgusted and angry at the parasitic, neocon, crazies- in- the -basement
    that lord it over us.

    For starters: Shut off the Idiot Box and boycott hollywood.

    • Replies: @Talha
  277. Talha says:
    @Latvian woman

    No problem, LW. As just another example, in Indonesia, where Islam spread due to Sufi-scholars like the Wali Songo it took root very naturally. It is reflected in the architecture of the mosques in Java and Sumatra (Indonesia’s two most populous islands) – very indigenous flavor – they look like they belong there and don’t look like carbon copies from places like Morocco or Istanbul or Isfahan:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=mosque+java&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=773&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip2cGir9nPAhUFziYKHbd1B9kQ_AUIBygC#tbm=isch&q=masjid+java

    https://www.google.com/search?q=mosque+java&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=773&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip2cGir9nPAhUFziYKHbd1B9kQ_AUIBygC#tbm=isch&q=masjid+sumatra

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Latvian woman
  278. Talha says:
    @Stonehands

    Hey Stonehands,

    That’s all good as long as one doesn’t fall into despair or hopelessness. Those that are more optimistic (not naive) historically have better chances at success.

    Good advice – I left TV back in the 90’s – never regretted it.

    Peace.

  279. @Talha

    Talha, thanks for the links, those look very sublime and exotic at once. I love beautiful architecture and it’s definitely a feast for the eyes. Interestingly, some of those wooden mosques from Sumatra almost look like the stave churches in Norway.

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    @peter howes

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  284. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Indeed he did, which is why I’m surprised so many Christians don’t give a hoot about it.

    For the same reason, I suppose, that so many now disregard sexual mores: the modern world order is pretty much based on usury, so people absorb the idea growing up.

    Traditional Christian jurisprudence, if I remember my Aquinas (if so, not well), condemns usury but allows it to be permitted under the civil law for the same reason prostitution and various other vices are not necessarily forbidden outright.

    Medieval kings tried to limit the practice, but they needed it to amass large sums of money, since permanent taxes weren’t a thing done in those days, so Jews and some other groups were allowed to engage in usurious practices (which is the source of a lot of the historical animosity towards Jews). Then, to some extent after the Reformation (mostly in England, where moneylending on a big scale took place), and especially after the French et American revolutions, pretty much all opposition was dropped. The Industrial Revolution involved massive quantities of capital, which were to some extent (are there any studies on the exact extent?) raised by usury, which was now pretty much respectable.

    There was a backlash against usury between the 1870s and the 1930s, particularly in Catholic opinion, but the war seems somehow to have silenced it.

    RSDB

    • Replies: @Talha
  285. Talha says:
    @anon

    This is a sad state of affairs indeed…though not altogether surprising:
    “‘A time will come upon people when they will consume usury.’ His companions (ra) asked him, “Is that all of the people?’ The Prophet (pbuh) said, ‘Whoever does not take from it will be afflicted by its dust*.’” – reported in Musnad Ahmad

    I just wish the Christian churches would actually take a stand against it again and teach it to their flocks. The problem is, I think many of these churches (and the foundations that run them) may themselves be involved in interest-bearing investments so they’d have to first divorce themselves from these. What is shocking to me at times is for how long the church stood its ground and how relatively recently (as you pointed out) it gave way.

    Peace.

    *It could well be argued that anyone using fiat currency notes is de facto involved in usury to some extent or another.

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