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Russian Options Against a US Attack on Syria
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The tensions between Russia and the USA have reached an unprecedented level. I fully agree with the participants of this CrossTalk show – the situation is even worse and more dangerous than during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Both sides are now going to the so-called “Plan B” which, simply put, stand for, at best, no negotiations and, at worst, a war between Russia and the USA.

The key thing to understand in the Russian stance in this, and other, recent conflicts with the USA is that Russia is still much weaker than the USA and that she therefore does not want war. That does not, however, mean that she is not actively preparing for war. In fact, she very much and actively does. All this means is that should a conflict occur, Russia you try, as best can be, to keep it as limited as possible.

In theory, these are, very roughly, the possible levels of confrontation:

1) A military standoff à la Berlin in 1961. One could argue that this is what is already taking place right now, albeit in a more long-distance and less visible way.

2) A single military incident, such as what happened recently when Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 and Russia chose not to retaliate.

3) A series of localized clashes similar to what is currently happening between India and Pakistan.

4) A conflict limited to the Syrian theater of war (say like the war between the UK and Argentina over the Malvinas Islands)

5) A regional or global military confrontation between the USA and Russia

6) A full scale thermonuclear war between the USA and Russia

During my years as a student of military strategy I have participated in many exercises on escalation and de-escalation and I can attest that while it is very easy to come up with escalatory scenarios, I have yet to see a credible scenario for de-escalation. What is possible, however, is the so-called “horizontal escalation” or “asymmetrical escalation” in which one side choses not to up the ante or directly escalate, but instead choses a different target for retaliation, not necessarily a more valuable one, just a different one on the same level of conceptual importance (in the USA Joshua M. Epstein and Spencer D. Bakich did most of the groundbreaking work on this topic).

The main reason why we can expect the Kremlin to try to find asymmetrical options to respond to a US attack is that in the Syrian context Russia is hopelessly outgunned by the US/NATO, at least in quantitative terms. The logical solutions for the Russians is to use their qualitative advantage or to seek “horizontal targets” as possible retaliatory options. This week, something very interesting and highly uncharacteristic happened: Major General Igor Konashenkov, the Chief of the Directorate of Media service and Information of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, openly mentioned one such option. Here is what he said:

“As for Kirby’s threats about possible Russian aircraft losses and the sending of Russian servicemen back to Russia in body bags, I would say that we know exactly where and how many “unofficial specialists” operate in Syria and in the Aleppo province and we know that they are involved in the operational planning and that they supervise the operations of the militants. Of course, one can continue to insist that they are unsuccessfully involved in trying to separate the al-Nusra terrorists from the “opposition” forces. But if somebody tries to implement these threats, it is by no means certain that these militants will have to time to get the hell out of there.”

Nice, no? Konashenkov appears to be threatening the “militants” but he is sure to mention that there are plenty of “unofficial specialists” amongst these militants and that Russia knows exactly where they are and how many of them there are. Of course, officially, Obama has declared that there are a few hundred such US special advisors in Syria. A well-informed Russian source suggests that there are up to 5,000 foreign ‘advisors’ to the Takfiris including about 4,000 Americans. I suppose that the truth is somewhere between these two figures.

So the Russian threat is simple: you attack us and we will attack US forces in Syria. Of course, Russia will vehemently deny targeting US servicemen and insist that the strike was only against terrorists, but both sides understand what is happening here. Interestingly, just last week the Iranian Fars news agency reported that such a Russian attack had already happened:

30 Israeli, Foreign Intelligence Officers Killed in Russia’s Caliber Missile Attack in Aleppo

“The Russian warships fired three Caliber missiles at the foreign officers’ coordination operations room in Dar Ezza region in the Western part of Aleppo near Sam’an mountain, killing 30 Israeli and western officers,” the Arabic-language service of Russia’s Sputnik news agency quoted battlefield source in Aleppo as saying on Wednesday. The operations room was located in the Western part of Aleppo province in the middle of sky-high Sam’an mountain and old caves. The region is deep into a chain of mountains. Several US, Turkish, Saudi, Qatari and British officers were also killed along with the Israeli officers. The foreign officers who were killed in the Aleppo operations room were directing the terrorists’ attacks in Aleppo and Idlib.”

Whether this really happened or whether the Russians are leaking such stories to indicate that this could happen, the fact remains that US forces in Syria could become an obvious target for Russian retaliation, whether by cruise missile, gravity bombs or direct action operation by Russian special forces. The US also has several covert military installations in Syria, including at least one airfield with V-22 Osprey multi-mission tiltrotor aircraft.

ORDER IT NOW

Another interesting recent development has been the Fox News report that Russians are deploying S-300V (aka “SA-23 Gladiator anti-missile and anti-aircraft system”) in Syria. Check out this excellent article for a detailed discussion of the capabilities of this missile system. I will summarize it by saying that the S-300V can engage ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, very low RCS (“stealth”) aircraft and AWACS aircraft. This is an Army/Army Corps -level air defense system, well capable of defending most of the Syrian airspace, but also reach well into Turkey, Cyprus, the eastern Mediterranean and Lebanon. The powerful radars of this system could not only detect and engage US aircraft (including “stealth”) at a long distance, but they could also provide a tremendous help for the few Russian air superiority fighters by giving them a clear pictures of the skies and enemy aircraft by using encrypted datalinks. Finally, US air doctrine is extremely dependent on the use of AWACS aircraft to guide and support US fighters. The S-300V will force US/NATO AWACS to operate at a most uncomfortable distance. Between the longer-range radars of the Russian Sukhois, the radars on the Russian cruisers off the Syrian coast, and the S-300 and S-300V radars on the ground, the Russians will have a much better situational awareness than their US counterparts.

It appears that the Russians are trying hard to compensate for their numerical inferiority by deploying high-end systems for which the US has no real equivalent or good counter-measures.

There are basically two options of deterrence: denial, when you prevent your enemy from hitting his targets and retaliation, when you make the costs of an enemy attack unacceptably high for him. The Russians appear to be pursuing both tracks at the same time. We can thus summarize the Russian approach as such

1) Delay a confrontation as long as possible (buy time)

2) Try to keep any confrontation at the lowest possible escalatory level

3) If possible, reply with asymmetrical/horizontal escalations

4) Rather then “prevail” against the US/NATO – make the costs of an attack too high

5) Try to put pressure on US “allies” in order to create tensions inside the Empire

6) Try to paralyze the US on a political level by making the political costs of an attack too high

7) Try to gradually create the conditions on the ground (Aleppo) to make a US attack futile

To those raised on Hollywood movies and who still watch TV, this kind of strategy will elicit only frustration and condemnation. There are millions of armchair strategists who are sure that they could do a much better job than Putin in countering the US Empire. These folks have now been telling us for *years* that Putin “sold out” the Syrians (and the Novorussians) and that the Russians ought to do X, Y and Z to defeat the AngloZionist Empire. The good news is that none of these armchair strategists sit in the Kremlin and that the Russians have stuck to their strategy over the past years, one day at a time, even when criticized by those who want quick and “easy” solutions. But the main good news is that the Russian strategy is working. Not only is the Nazi-occupied Ukraine quite literally falling apart, but the US has basically run out of options in Syria (see this excellent analysis by my friend Alexander Mercouris in the Duran).

The only remaining logical steps left for the US in Syria is to accept Russia’s terms or leave. The problem is that I am not at all convinced that the Neocons, who run the White House, Congress and the US corporate media, are “rational” at all. This is why the Russians employed so many delaying tactics and why they have acted with such utmost caution: they are dealing with professional incompetent ideologues who simply do not play by the unwritten but clear rules of civilized international relations. This is what makes the current crisis so much worse than even the Cuban Missile Crisis: one superpower has clearly gone insane.

Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo?

Maybe, maybe not. But what if we rephrase that question and ask

Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII to maintain their status as the “world’s indispensable nation”, the “leader of the free world”, the “city on the hill” and all the rest of this imperialistic nonsense?

Here I would submit that yes, they potentially are.

After all, the Neocons are correct when they sense that if Russia gets away with openly defying and defeating the USA in Syria, nobody will take the AngloZionists very seriously any more.

How do you think the Neocons think when they see the President of the Philippines publicly calling Obama a “son of a whore” and then tells the EU to go and “f*ck itself”?

Of course, the Neocons can still find some solace in the abject subservience of the European political elites, but still – they know that the writing is on the wall and that their Empire is rapidly crumbling, not only in Syria, the Ukraine or Asia, but even inside the US. The biggest danger here is that the Neocons might try to rally the nation around the flag, either by staging yet another false flag or by triggering a real international crisis.

At this point in time all we can do is wait and hope that there is enough resistance inside the US government to prevent a US attack on Syria before the next Administration comes in. And while I am no supporter of Trump, I would agree that Hillary and her evil cabal of russophobic Neocons is so bad that Trump does give me some hope, at least in comparison to Hillary.

So if Trump wins, then Russia’s strategy will be basically justified. Once Trump is on the White House, there is at least the possibility of a comprehensive redefinition of US-Russian relations which would, of course, begin with a de-escalation in Syria: while Obama/Hillary categorically refuse to get rid of Daesh (by that I mean al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, and all their various denominations), Trump appears to be determined to seriously fight them, even if that means that Assad stays in power. There is most definitely a basis for dialog here. If Hillary comes in, then the Russians will have to make an absolutely crucial call: how important is Syria in the context of their goal to re-sovereignize Russia and to bring down the AngloZionist Empire? Another way of formulating the same question is “would Russia prefer a confrontation with the Empire in Syria or in the Ukraine?”.

One way to gauge the mood in Russia is to look at the language of a recent law proposed by President Putin and adopted by the Duma which dealt with the issue of the Russia-US Plutonium Management and Disposition Agreement (PMDA) which, yet again, saw the US yet again fail to deliver on their obligations and which Russia has now suspended. What is interesting, is the language chosen by the Russians to list the conditions under which they would resume their participation in this agreement and, basically, agree to resume any kind of arms negotiations:

  1. A reduction of military infrastructure and the number of the US troops stationed on the territory of NATO member states that joined the alliance after September 1, 2000, to the levels at which they were when the original agreement first entered into force.
  2. The abandonment of the hostile policy of the US towards Russia, which should be carried out with the abolition of the Magnitsky Act of 2012 and the conditions of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014, which were directed against Russia.
  3. The abolition of all sanctions imposed by the US on certain subjects of the Russian Federation, Russian individuals and legal entities.
  4. The compensation for all the damage suffered by Russia as a result of the imposition of sanctions .
  5. The US is also required to submit a clear plan for irreversible plutonium disposition covered by the PMDA .

Now the Russians are not delusional. They know full well that the USA will never accept such terms. So what is this really all about? It is a diplomatic but unambiguous way to tell the USA the exact same thing which Philippine President Duterte (and Victoria Nuland) told the EU.

The Americans better start paying attention.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Russia, Syria 
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  1. For once I actually largely agree with the Saker; and I hope he’s right about Russian strategy…I wouldn’t really find it objectionable if the Russians killed US, British or French advisors or whoever is aiding the rebels in Syria. I just hope Russia wouldn’t react with an invasion of the Baltic states or something similar, that would be a nightmare scenario.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    But maybe what the Saker is proposing is impossible. There are just few US troops in Syria, maybe they are contractors (so nobody will care if they die), maybe it won't be so easy to kill them...

    I'm sure, though, that Putin will not just idly stand by as his troops in Syria are destroyed. He'll retaliate some way or another. After which he will be further demonized, and will get some further escalation. I personally think if the Americans attack Syria, there will be an over 1% chance of an all-out nuclear war, and I might actually underestimate the chances.

    I'm quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don't know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy? Don't they know that we didn't have a nuclear war precisely because everyone was dead frightened of the prospect? Once you no longer fear it, its probability will grow enormously...
    , @Rabbitnexus
    There is ZERO chance of a Russian invasion anywhere. They are not set up for such secenarios, this is a defensive military with amazing standoff capabilities. Any talk of Russian invasions is pure NATO driven hysteria.
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  2. The Americans are keen on supporting the abortion industry, the illicit drugs industry, the porn industry, the gay industry, etc. etc. That is the American way of life for the last 50 years.

    Not surprisingly some like Duterte and Putin are over it.

    What has this to do with Syria? The problem is that for the ideologically driven leaders of the left like Obama and Hillary such matters are of the utmost importance. They are literally provoking WW3 over gay parades in Moscow.

    They have decided that Russia must change and are going after her via Libya, Iran, Syria and Ukraine. The actions of the American’s don’t make any sense otherwise. Why are they provoking chaos and war using Islamic militants? A pipeline! There are other places to run pipelines.

    The Russians and Filipinos are getting a bit shirty, the American cultural war over the last decades has turned the third world into a seedy vice and crime ridden nightclub for the benefit of decadent American tourists. And don’t doubt that is is a large factor in American financial dominance, a corrupted nation is easy to bribe and control.

    The explanation I offer for all this is not on the radar for many people. The social and sexual revolution has long become one of those unquestioned assumptions and falls into the category of unquestionable truth for people on both sides of politics.

    It is the unquestioned assumptions concerning the morality of gay men and feminists and promiscuous sexual activity that people like Obama are willing to provoke WW3 over.

    The funny thing is that the gay men or feminists will never fight the wars. They will use funny money and pay Islamist’s to do it. The American leaders of this generation are completely immoral.

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    • Agree: Stonehands
    • Replies: @TJM
    Your out of your fucking mind!

    This has nothing to do with the "sexual revolution", this has everything to do with Zionist and Jews.

    I worked with the Ron Paul campaign and the support from the gay community was everywhere.

    Your just parroting the divisive BS from the Zionist war machine, pathetic.
    , @IA
    I agree. Looking at what the Dems have done in the past 8 years it's so obvious it's a war on family formation. The pajama boy ad, especially, marked a new level of subversion of normal [white] male behavior. White men better find their balls, fast.
  3. Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo?

    it isn’t over Aleppo Saker, that’s just a stepping stone to the Golan Heights, and beyond. The Iraq/Libya treatment of Syria is just one more domino of theirs to fall on the way to the entire planet under their boot

    if they allow Putin to quash their schemes for the Golan by keeping Syria intact, then that would be existential to their intentions vis-a-vis the rest of the planet.

    30 Israeli, Foreign Intelligence Officers Killed in Russia’s Caliber Missile Attack in Aleppo

    that would certainly explain the angry hornets nest they acted like recently

    some links

    http://nsnbc.me/2016/10/05/syria-blasts-israel-over-continued-occupation-of-the-golan-heights/

    this one is my personal favorite!

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/05/obama-shifts-blame-from-assad-to-global-warming-as-the-cause-of-the-syrian-civil-war/

    here’s some fine Orwellian doublespeak

    http://www.businessinsider.com/fall-of-aleppo-to-assad-could-boost-extremism-and-isis-2016-10

    Putin has the hopes and future of the entire planet in his hands. I pray him God speed, and a cool head. He is truly a man standing at the edge of our darkness, and taking on the Fiend to protect us all.

    reminds me of this scene

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  4. “A single military incident, such as what happened recently when Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 and Russia chose not to retaliate”. (Saker)

    That’s nonsense.
    Russia did retaliate – by placing S-400 at Khmeimim AB, imposing visas on Turks, banning sales of tours to Turkey, economic sanctions, decimating Turkoman rebels, etc.

    That single lost plane cost the Turks $10B at least.

    If America openly attacks Russia, you can forget about keeping this thing “limited”. All USAF bases in Europe and Middle East will be set ablaze, quite possibly with tactical nukes.

    And no, Russia is not “much weaker than the USA”, at least in Syria and its immediate vicinity. America may enjoy some marginal advantage, but it will be gone quickly.

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    • Disagree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    What you are prosing would require that Putin be insane. Everything Saker mentions about the US risking WW3 applies just as much to Putinist Russia.

    Given Obama's weakness, you may be right about the US disappearing. Much will depend on who is elected in November. The next POTUS will not have as much "flexibility" as Obama has had.
    , @Joe Wong
    Russian’s retaliation against Turk's reckless adventurism was not apparent; perhaps Russian’s covert retaliation against Turks’ aggression is the root of all the USA provocations and threats in Syria; if the Russian did not hit back the Turk what is the likelihood the Russian will hit back the American the American must be wondering.

    Russian hit Turks back asymmetrically is way more less risky than hitting back the American asymmetrically.

  5. When I visualize a combat scenario I have a tendency to leave out the inconvenient parts that mess up my ideal plans…if I’m not careful the planning exercise can quickly turn into a meaningless session of fantasy roleplaying. Unfortunately, I think that’s what the Saker has done here…a fantasy roleplaying session presented to us in the form of an incomplete article. He leaves out two hugely inconvenient pieces…China, and Iran. China could very easily have 300,000 troops on the ground in Syria in a matter of weeks, and not break a sweat. As for the Iranians…I read an article some years ago about the willingness of the Iranian people to go to war against the US. One of the Mullahs called for volunteers for an army of Holy Martyrs to attack the US…over 300,000 people volunteered. And, since the hatred for the US has only increased over these past years, I can easily believe those numbers will now be double the previous turnout.

    The Russians, and the Chinese, both know that the US is ruled by forces other than those presented to the American Sheople, on TV. They know that it is the Jews who operate the levers of power in Washington…and every thing that is now happening is per the Jewish plan for world domination. They (Russia/China) know that the Jews are frantically trying to keep the holocaust mythology from falling apart; millions of people are waking up to the fact that the “holocaust thing” ain’t adding up. Most of you don’t know this, but, the official numbers of holocaust victims has been gradually reduced, by the Jews themselves, from the original 6 million figure, down to approximately 3.7 million today. They still use the 6 million figure, though, because they know that people are too lazy, and too stupid, to look into it. All of the holocaust survivor stories have been thoroughly debunked…some of them are quite laughable indeed! One lady claimed that as a gassing was underway, a guard knock on the window (of the gas chamber!) and motioned for her to come to the door…the guard opened the door (of the gas chamber!!) and told her to report to Dr. Mengele for her daily medical torture session! HAHAHA! That’s why they call you people, sheople!

    The 9/11 cover-up is falling apart, too…with Jewish fingerprints all over everything. Their attempt to obfuscate their true level of involvement in the murderous communist machine has been thwarted…Vladimir Putin stated that the Jews occupied 80-85% of the positions in the 1st Soviet government; Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn puts the total number of dead at 66 million. The USS Liberty cover-up has been shredded. Jewish involvement in the mass-migrant crisis in Europe is also being exposed. The list, and it’s a really long one, goes on and on.

    The point is that the Jews are being exposed for what they really are…criminals! It’s not going to be too much longer that the people of the world are going to get sick and tired of the criminality of the Jews, and they’re going to rise up and throw the Jews out into the street! But, it’ll be much worse than that…Jews will be shot-up in their homes; dragged from their offices and hung from the nearest lamppost. The only safe place for them will be Israel…to there they will flee by the millions. As the sheople wake up they will overthrow their corrupt governments, and take control of their militaries…and turn them on Israel. The former state of Israel will set a new world record for being the largest gravel parking lot in the world!

    The New World Order is an all-or-nothing game for the Jews, and they’re losing ground fast. The only way they can get out in front of it is to foment WW3…which is exactly what they’re doing with their US/NATO puppets in Syria. They would rather slaughter 5 billion people than to get a single scratch on their hand!

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    • Replies: @Penguinchip
    Apparently Mr. Unz hasn't yet implemented those newly heightened quality standards for comments on this site.
  6. Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo?

    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII to maintain their status as the “world’s indispensable nation”, the “leader of the free world”, the “city on the hill” and all the rest of this imperialistic nonsense?

    This is the paragraph in which Saker shows his analytical maturity. Yes, the Ziocons are neither competent, nor rational, nor sensible; they will initiate WW3 for the latter reason. The Ziocons truly remind me of the Communist ideologues, who are prepared to defy reality indefinitely, even when it is blatantly obvious that their time is up. They will destroy everything rather than admit that they were wrong. The history has come full circle, the Communist-like ideologues (Communism for the rich) are ruling the West now, the social fairness-oriented national-conservatives rule the East.

    Will the World survive the downfall of the Ziocons?

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    • Replies: @colm
    No. We won't survive the Ziocons' demise since they will nuke all of us.
  7. @Kiza

    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo?

    ...

    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII to maintain their status as the “world’s indispensable nation”, the “leader of the free world”, the “city on the hill” and all the rest of this imperialistic nonsense?
     

    This is the paragraph in which Saker shows his analytical maturity. Yes, the Ziocons are neither competent, nor rational, nor sensible; they will initiate WW3 for the latter reason. The Ziocons truly remind me of the Communist ideologues, who are prepared to defy reality indefinitely, even when it is blatantly obvious that their time is up. They will destroy everything rather than admit that they were wrong. The history has come full circle, the Communist-like ideologues (Communism for the rich) are ruling the West now, the social fairness-oriented national-conservatives rule the East.

    Will the World survive the downfall of the Ziocons?

    No. We won’t survive the Ziocons’ demise since they will nuke all of us.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    Unfortunately you are correct:
    "This is why the Russians employed so many delaying tactics and why they have acted with such utmost caution: they are dealing with professional incompetent ideologues who simply do not play by the unwritten but clear rules of civilized international relations. This is what makes the current crisis so much worse than even the Cuban Missile Crisis: one superpower has clearly gone insane."
  8. I don’t think Ms. Clinton and her friends will have any mercy on their foes. I don’t see how Russia will cope with her wrath.

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  9. Now the Russians are not delusional. They know full well that the USA will never accept such terms. So what is this really all about? It is a diplomatic but unambiguous way to tell the USA the exact same thing which Philippine President Duterte (and Victoria Nuland) told the EU.

    It is actually a bit more than the now common vulgarity. The listed points are the best statement to the neutrals, that is ordinary US and EU people, what Russia really wants, they are the true Russian desires in front of which the West has erected an iron curtain of mind-numbing lies, innuendo and propaganda (aka FUD). Russia should keep repeating these five points until everybody in the West, and especially the Hillary voters, understand this simple truth. Russia wants respect for the Russians, as well as respect for true international rules, not the rules which the West establishes from case-to-case according to its interests in each case: “what I say is the law”.

    Just consider the medal tally of all the sick/ill Western sports people (thanks to WADA). Is there any better example of the pliability of the Western laws and rules? Russia wants to repel such laws-of-the-(sports)-jungle.

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  10. @colm
    I don't think Ms. Clinton and her friends will have any mercy on their foes. I don't see how Russia will cope with her wrath.

    LOL…

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  11. I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”. As another commenter mentioned, Iran could also quickly ramp up the number of ground forces supporting the Syrian government. Potentially, any US “coalition” opposing the Syrian government could literally be overrun by Chinese and Iranian ground forces in combination with Russian air defense.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”.}

    There is no Chinese wildcard.

    China has no strategic interests in Syria for which to risk troops.
    Historically, traditionally, culturally China minds its own business around its periphery.

    China will go to war, if it has to, with US or anybody else that threatens her interest in her backyard, but you'll never see Chinese troops in Syria.
    There is nothing in it for them.
    Unlike Russia, nothing that happens in Syria will affect China in the least.
    , @in the middle
    Might as well leave the Chinese outside, since all they know is to copy western products, and make mythical kung fu movies. The last time they fought, they were beating badly by the Vietnamese! So, it is Russia, and Iran, both have not lost a war for generations, so they can hold it on their own, I think.
  12. @attonn
    "A single military incident, such as what happened recently when Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 and Russia chose not to retaliate". (Saker)

    That's nonsense.
    Russia did retaliate - by placing S-400 at Khmeimim AB, imposing visas on Turks, banning sales of tours to Turkey, economic sanctions, decimating Turkoman rebels, etc.

    That single lost plane cost the Turks $10B at least.

    If America openly attacks Russia, you can forget about keeping this thing "limited". All USAF bases in Europe and Middle East will be set ablaze, quite possibly with tactical nukes.

    And no, Russia is not "much weaker than the USA", at least in Syria and its immediate vicinity. America may enjoy some marginal advantage, but it will be gone quickly.

    What you are prosing would require that Putin be insane. Everything Saker mentions about the US risking WW3 applies just as much to Putinist Russia.

    Given Obama’s weakness, you may be right about the US disappearing. Much will depend on who is elected in November. The next POTUS will not have as much “flexibility” as Obama has had.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    A full circle. The US has joined Al Qaeda in Syria.
    The US-waged War on Terror, which had started 15 years ago, was proclaimed then as a war against Al Qaeda. How come that the US military servicemen are fighting on a side of Al Qaeda today? In other words, how come that the US government has joint Al Qaeda in a fight against the sovereign state of Syria? This is a nice question for Obama/Clinton team. The Q and A should be widely televised.
    General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
    "Taking countries" has produced nothing but rivers of blood, mounds of flesh, and the unspeakable sufferings for the Middle East populations. US became Al Qaeda.
  13. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    I wonder how many US special forces embedded with the rebels-”unofficial advisors”-have been killed so far in the Russian air strikes? They wouldn’t tell us if it happened anyway. The story about the strike on the operations center seems rather fanciful as it doesn’t seem logical for such an alphabet soup of people to be working together at the same location. Something may have happened though, since the strike on the SAA could well have been retaliatory.
    In order to have kept fighting all these past years the rebels have run through much ammo and weaponry. Since none the various rebel groups own any arms or ammo factories that we know of it becomes obvious that they’ve been getting a steady supply of ammo from other sources. And those sources are?
    Syria is one of the pins slated to fall in the US multi-year project of reshaping the region to suit American wants with the road eventually leading to Tehran. The project has bogged down here and has unleashed a veiled fury at having their unstoppable march stymied. Hence the seeming obsession with Syria by the American government.
    I’m waiting to see if the American government will engineer an ‘incident’ of sorts, perhaps a plane shoot-down, ours or one of theirs, in order to affect the vote in the upcoming election.

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  14. Given Putin’s ultimatum, nothing is going to be solved. Were Obama not so weak, he’d never make such a statement. Even so, those conditions will never be fulfilled, and he knows it. Putin doesn’t want a solution. He’s simply calling US weakness and daring them to do something about it.

    I don’t think Putin is stupid and risking WW3 would be stupid on his part. WW3 is coming, but the conditions are such the US probably won’t be involved except on the edges, and it will destroy Putin’s attempted revival of the Soviet Union. Russia will be reduced to a rump.

    I have to laugh at Saker’s fantasies abut an Anglo-Zionist empire. It exists only in his fertile imagination. Anyone seriously thinking Europe is some sort of US toady isn’t playing with a full deck.

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he’ll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova. He doesn’t have the economic strength to support such imperial adventurism. We’ll see over the next year if Putin has any sort of brain or not. If not, he’ll stay the course he is on.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    Putin’s attempted revival of the Soviet Union
     
    LOL! Every bit as laughable as Saker's silliness about an "Anglo-Zionist empire".

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he’ll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova.
     
    Comical. In Syria, it's the US that is illegally interfering in a sovereign foreign country in support of armed rebels, and that is aggressively trying to "regime change" a longstanding Russian ally, and yet you think anybody honest and informed is going to take your absurd suggestion that "Russia should pull its horns in" seriously!?

    If the US regime adopts any of the "kinetic" options recently suggested by Washington warmongers to try to revive its failed regime change efforts in Syria, it will be essentially declaring war on Russia and risking uncontrolled escalation. For that reason alone, there's some hope at least that the current President will squash such suggestions. A future President might not, if she's the kind of warmongering psychopath she appears to be and her record suggests she is.
    , @bluedog
    Of course we are trying to build an empire, for after all this was suppose to be OUR century and we would control the world and its resourcs"s which are put there for OUR purpose,as far as Europe is concerned they are OUR colonies and do and will continue to do as we dictate.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Congratulation on your promotion to GS-15. I'm glad you're here, because we don't get enough of the party line from the government's acknowledged spokesmen.
  15. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”. As another commenter mentioned, Iran could also quickly ramp up the number of ground forces supporting the Syrian government.

    China has no military infrastructure, doctrine or experience for that kind of massive long distance military deployment, and would struggle to supply and protect any significant deployment to Syria. This will likely be true for a number of years yet, perhaps decades (depending upon China’s strategic priorities and investments).

    It’s just not going to happen. If China were to play any part it would be economically and/or diplomatically.

    As for Iran, such ground forces as Iran could or is likely to deploy across Iraq to Syria are unlikely to cause any problems there if US forces are directly engaged.

    I don’t think either China’s or Iran’s potential military involvement is particularly relevant to the issue Saker is discussing here, of the cost/benefit calculation the US regime is currently weighing, over whether to gamble the lives of every human being on the planet to try to retrieve its disappearing regime change effort in Syria

    Read More
    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    So this massive network of thousands of miles of rail that is connecting China with Central Asia all the way on to Germany: that couldn't be used to move soldiers for an occupation?

    With European countries having laughable ground forces, and pathetic militaries generally, what is to stop China from moving its troops into Europe or into Syria if it so choose, even soon?
  16. @Quartermaster
    Given Putin's ultimatum, nothing is going to be solved. Were Obama not so weak, he'd never make such a statement. Even so, those conditions will never be fulfilled, and he knows it. Putin doesn't want a solution. He's simply calling US weakness and daring them to do something about it.

    I don't think Putin is stupid and risking WW3 would be stupid on his part. WW3 is coming, but the conditions are such the US probably won't be involved except on the edges, and it will destroy Putin's attempted revival of the Soviet Union. Russia will be reduced to a rump.

    I have to laugh at Saker's fantasies abut an Anglo-Zionist empire. It exists only in his fertile imagination. Anyone seriously thinking Europe is some sort of US toady isn't playing with a full deck.

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he'll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova. He doesn't have the economic strength to support such imperial adventurism. We'll see over the next year if Putin has any sort of brain or not. If not, he'll stay the course he is on.

    Putin’s attempted revival of the Soviet Union

    LOL! Every bit as laughable as Saker’s silliness about an “Anglo-Zionist empire”.

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he’ll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova.

    Comical. In Syria, it’s the US that is illegally interfering in a sovereign foreign country in support of armed rebels, and that is aggressively trying to “regime change” a longstanding Russian ally, and yet you think anybody honest and informed is going to take your absurd suggestion that “Russia should pull its horns in” seriously!?

    If the US regime adopts any of the “kinetic” options recently suggested by Washington warmongers to try to revive its failed regime change efforts in Syria, it will be essentially declaring war on Russia and risking uncontrolled escalation. For that reason alone, there’s some hope at least that the current President will squash such suggestions. A future President might not, if she’s the kind of warmongering psychopath she appears to be and her record suggests she is.

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    • Replies: @hbm
    Someone has expansionist plans and fantasies to re-establish their borders at the extent of the 'old Empire' out of which they intend to rule the world, and it's not the Russians.
  17. @Quartermaster
    Given Putin's ultimatum, nothing is going to be solved. Were Obama not so weak, he'd never make such a statement. Even so, those conditions will never be fulfilled, and he knows it. Putin doesn't want a solution. He's simply calling US weakness and daring them to do something about it.

    I don't think Putin is stupid and risking WW3 would be stupid on his part. WW3 is coming, but the conditions are such the US probably won't be involved except on the edges, and it will destroy Putin's attempted revival of the Soviet Union. Russia will be reduced to a rump.

    I have to laugh at Saker's fantasies abut an Anglo-Zionist empire. It exists only in his fertile imagination. Anyone seriously thinking Europe is some sort of US toady isn't playing with a full deck.

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he'll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova. He doesn't have the economic strength to support such imperial adventurism. We'll see over the next year if Putin has any sort of brain or not. If not, he'll stay the course he is on.

    Of course we are trying to build an empire, for after all this was suppose to be OUR century and we would control the world and its resourcs”s which are put there for OUR purpose,as far as Europe is concerned they are OUR colonies and do and will continue to do as we dictate.

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    • Replies: @colm
    Amen!

    Yes, it is OUR century. Ms. Clinton will bring the new world order into fruition and everyone standing in front of her will share the fate of Vince Foster.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Just a note about the probability of European countries and the USA remaining close friends and allies: with massive demographic and cultural changes in the USA (turning Mexican mestizo) and Europe (turning Muslim slowly but surely), it is foolish to expect that people on both sides of the Pond will feel loyalty, affection, and commonality with each other. Many of the white people in all the countries may feel that way, as they should, but few others will.

    Specifically, the growing Muslim electorate in France, Germany, the UK, Sweden, and Denmark will demand distance from, and eventually open hostility against, the USA. And they will get it unless nonmuslims there grow some balls.
  18. @The Scalpel
    I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via "advisors". As another commenter mentioned, Iran could also quickly ramp up the number of ground forces supporting the Syrian government. Potentially, any US "coalition" opposing the Syrian government could literally be overrun by Chinese and Iranian ground forces in combination with Russian air defense.

    {I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”.}

    There is no Chinese wildcard.

    China has no strategic interests in Syria for which to risk troops.
    Historically, traditionally, culturally China minds its own business around its periphery.

    China will go to war, if it has to, with US or anybody else that threatens her interest in her backyard, but you’ll never see Chinese troops in Syria.
    There is nothing in it for them.
    Unlike Russia, nothing that happens in Syria will affect China in the least.

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    • Replies: @frankie p
    I guess you consider the massive infrastructure investments that China is currently carrying out in Central and South Asia as "mind(ing) its own business around its periphery." When the pipelines are completed linking Iran's eastern border directly to western China and CIPS becomes a real alternative to SWIFT, what kind of teeth will American-backed sanctions against Iran have? As to your misinformed statement that the Chinese have no interest in or will derive no benefit from sending troops to Syria, I think you'd do better to study large geopolitical trends and alliances. By providing a stronger counterweight against the American empire (and its hodgepodge coalition of emasculated European nations and head chopping terrorists), China would be solidifying its strong and growing partnership with Russia, win hearts and minds across Central Asia, parts of the Middle East and Africa, and most importantly for China, set up a quid pro quo with Russia for the time when China needs naval support in the Pacific. The US is very busy trying to tie the East and Southeast Asian nations into some kind of coalition of deterrence to what is perceived to be China's expansion (it's not expansion) into the second island chain. America's naval forces in the Pacific are still significant, though with the introduction of new missile technology they are fast becoming floating targets. China, a deliberate, patient player on the world stage, may be willing to commit to Syria in exchange for future help against the US in the South China Sea.
  19. [Pick a single handle and stick to it or use Anonymous/Anon]

    “Russia is hopelessly outgunned by the US/NATO, at least in quantitative terms.”

    Not to nitpick, but hey, whatever. There is no NATO, just the US. And look how well we did in Iraq! Yay! I’ve said it plenty of times before under other names, but at this point, the US is all talk. And not even good at it anymore. Who we got, John Francis Kerry…

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  20. @bluedog
    Of course we are trying to build an empire, for after all this was suppose to be OUR century and we would control the world and its resourcs"s which are put there for OUR purpose,as far as Europe is concerned they are OUR colonies and do and will continue to do as we dictate.

    Amen!

    Yes, it is OUR century. Ms. Clinton will bring the new world order into fruition and everyone standing in front of her will share the fate of Vince Foster.

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  21. The US knows how to escalate horizontally too (“shifting ladders”). Ukraine was just one shift after Syria. No need to climb the ladder and go full-retard nuclear when there are other options. I’m sure there’s a few theaters left to exploit like Georgia in ’08. Russia is one big country, there is bound to be a few dissidents the US can train (no need to arm them, AKs grow on trees in Russia).

    I also don’t believe that changing the category of targets is considered a horizontal shift. That would be a vertical escalation. Having Russia move from attacking middlemen proxy groups (ie jihadists) to actively engaging covert Western special forces and intelligence units is a huge jump. It opens up the door for retaliation on any Russian forces in theater.

    There was a good chart which I can’t find for the life of me but it had vertical escalation on the Y-axis (climbing the ladder; increased number of incidents, increased intensity, increased frequency, deploying more strategic weapons), the horizontal escalation on X (shifting ladders; proxy warfare, color revolutions, special operations, training and arming dissidents) and finally the political escalation on the Z-axis (expanding the ladder; change in rhetoric, loosening of the ROE, removing behavioral constraints, demonstrating forces and technology).

    I do believe changing the category of targets is climbing the ladder (much like how changing from military targets to civilian targets).

    I can’t wait when both sides try to damage each others radar systems and sensors. Just troll each other with radar jamming and microwave emissions, maybe try to overload some circuits, blind some satellites and observation systems with lasers, finger-in-your-eye type of move. That might be a horizontal shift…

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  22. @German_reader
    For once I actually largely agree with the Saker; and I hope he's right about Russian strategy...I wouldn't really find it objectionable if the Russians killed US, British or French advisors or whoever is aiding the rebels in Syria. I just hope Russia wouldn't react with an invasion of the Baltic states or something similar, that would be a nightmare scenario.

    But maybe what the Saker is proposing is impossible. There are just few US troops in Syria, maybe they are contractors (so nobody will care if they die), maybe it won’t be so easy to kill them…

    I’m sure, though, that Putin will not just idly stand by as his troops in Syria are destroyed. He’ll retaliate some way or another. After which he will be further demonized, and will get some further escalation. I personally think if the Americans attack Syria, there will be an over 1% chance of an all-out nuclear war, and I might actually underestimate the chances.

    I’m quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don’t know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy? Don’t they know that we didn’t have a nuclear war precisely because everyone was dead frightened of the prospect? Once you no longer fear it, its probability will grow enormously…

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I'm worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America's establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won't stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
    If European elites weren't so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue...our dependency on the US isn't healthy.
    , @Randal

    I’m quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don’t know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy?
     
    Clearly some either are that crazy or think it's beneficial to bluff. I don't read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.

    Often people seeming "crazy" is just a result of assuming they share your motivations, or motivations you impute to them, when they don't (such as assuming US foreign policy is intended to benefit the US nation, when often it is run for foreign or domestic lobbies' interests that can be directly opposed to those of the US as a whole). Such cases often cover, for instance, US interventionist wars and their "crazy" advocates - though in John McCain's case I'm coming around to the idea he's just been literally insane for some years now. But it's hard to attribute that kind of differential motivation to someone willing to risk nuclear war - who would really benefit from a strategic nuclear exchange? Perhaps it's just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.

    Anyway, I think we will be in a new and genuinely scary place if and when Clinton is elected.
  23. @reiner Tor
    But maybe what the Saker is proposing is impossible. There are just few US troops in Syria, maybe they are contractors (so nobody will care if they die), maybe it won't be so easy to kill them...

    I'm sure, though, that Putin will not just idly stand by as his troops in Syria are destroyed. He'll retaliate some way or another. After which he will be further demonized, and will get some further escalation. I personally think if the Americans attack Syria, there will be an over 1% chance of an all-out nuclear war, and I might actually underestimate the chances.

    I'm quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don't know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy? Don't they know that we didn't have a nuclear war precisely because everyone was dead frightened of the prospect? Once you no longer fear it, its probability will grow enormously...

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
    If European elites weren’t so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue…our dependency on the US isn’t healthy.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {... while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    WTF.

    SU 'occupied', quote, half of Europe?
    Did the Anglo-American empire occupy (western) half of Europe?
    Does US occupy Germany to this day? Yes or No.

    If it weren't for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers. The 'half of Europe' (Eastern Europe) would be denuded of its (mostly) Slavic, indigenous peoples - to make Lebensraum for the alleged Master Race, which got massively master f___ by the supposed Slavic Untermenschen.

    You neo-Nazi genocidal filth.
    , @Randal

    If European elites weren’t so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue…our dependency on the US isn’t healthy.
     
    Absolutely agree with this, and the same goes, in spades, for my own country.

    And I recognise that my own country has over the years played its full part in preventing the emergence of anything that might grow into an independent European military structure. As with much of the history of my country's post-1945 humiliation, I understand the reasons for that, but I believe they expired some time after 1990, along with any justification for Britain's continued subordination to the US.

    NATO's continued existence is a big part of the problem, as well as a symptom of it.
    , @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...
  24. @German_reader
    I'm worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America's establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won't stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
    If European elites weren't so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue...our dependency on the US isn't healthy.

    {… while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    WTF.

    SU ‘occupied’, quote, half of Europe?
    Did the Anglo-American empire occupy (western) half of Europe?
    Does US occupy Germany to this day? Yes or No.

    If it weren’t for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers. The ‘half of Europe’ (Eastern Europe) would be denuded of its (mostly) Slavic, indigenous peoples – to make Lebensraum for the alleged Master Race, which got massively master f___ by the supposed Slavic Untermenschen.

    You neo-Nazi genocidal filth.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    "You neo-Nazi genocidal filth."

    That's a somewhat extreme reaction, don't you think?
    The Soviet Union was an imperialist power and its rule was resented by very large percentages of the populations of Eastern bloc countries. No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been, but then I never denied that (except in your imagination). Doesn't change the fact the Soviets definitely overstayed ther welcome in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary etc.

    , @Rurik

    If it weren’t for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers.
     
    if it weren't for the genocidal Bolshevik monsters who grabbed Russia 'by the hair of the head", and were genociding Ukrainians by the millions - with the intention of doing the same to Germany, then there would never have been any Nazis to begin with.

    the Nazis were an answer to the commie filth that were trying to take over Germany in the 1930s

    Hitler was a response to this deadly threat and anti-human plague upon mankind

    that the Nazis eventually became monsters too, was a direct consequence of having to fight the Bolshevik drooling fiend in the first place

    many people say Hamas is a terrorist organization. But Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary

    Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism

    Gentile resistance movements to the scourge of genocidal Jewish supremacism
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    Someone clearly needs their meds.
  25. @reiner Tor
    But maybe what the Saker is proposing is impossible. There are just few US troops in Syria, maybe they are contractors (so nobody will care if they die), maybe it won't be so easy to kill them...

    I'm sure, though, that Putin will not just idly stand by as his troops in Syria are destroyed. He'll retaliate some way or another. After which he will be further demonized, and will get some further escalation. I personally think if the Americans attack Syria, there will be an over 1% chance of an all-out nuclear war, and I might actually underestimate the chances.

    I'm quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don't know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy? Don't they know that we didn't have a nuclear war precisely because everyone was dead frightened of the prospect? Once you no longer fear it, its probability will grow enormously...

    I’m quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don’t know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy?

    Clearly some either are that crazy or think it’s beneficial to bluff. I don’t read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.

    Often people seeming “crazy” is just a result of assuming they share your motivations, or motivations you impute to them, when they don’t (such as assuming US foreign policy is intended to benefit the US nation, when often it is run for foreign or domestic lobbies’ interests that can be directly opposed to those of the US as a whole). Such cases often cover, for instance, US interventionist wars and their “crazy” advocates – though in John McCain’s case I’m coming around to the idea he’s just been literally insane for some years now. But it’s hard to attribute that kind of differential motivation to someone willing to risk nuclear war – who would really benefit from a strategic nuclear exchange? Perhaps it’s just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.

    Anyway, I think we will be in a new and genuinely scary place if and when Clinton is elected.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Perhaps it’s just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.
     
    I think it's very similar to how financial risks are built up. Perhaps the traders and executives at Deutsche Bank or Lehman Brothers didn't actively wish to bankrupt their own institutions, but it paid well to take risks (if you take a risk which will bankrupt you 1% of the time but gives you a slightly above average returns, then many people will take the risk and thrive, because they'll underestimate the 1% chance since they haven't seen anything like that in their lives), and when shit hit the fan, they said - hoocoodanode?

    Now I can feel a similar mindset with the Beltway Crowd, they haven't seen a nuclear war or even a war with major power, so they think its chances are nil. Which they aren't.
  26. @The Scalpel
    I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via "advisors". As another commenter mentioned, Iran could also quickly ramp up the number of ground forces supporting the Syrian government. Potentially, any US "coalition" opposing the Syrian government could literally be overrun by Chinese and Iranian ground forces in combination with Russian air defense.

    Might as well leave the Chinese outside, since all they know is to copy western products, and make mythical kung fu movies. The last time they fought, they were beating badly by the Vietnamese! So, it is Russia, and Iran, both have not lost a war for generations, so they can hold it on their own, I think.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    For some bizarre reason you wrote...

    The last time they fought, they were beating badly by the Vietnamese!
     
    What are you referring to? As far as I know the Chinese have dominated the Vietnamese for more than a thousand years...every once in a while the Chinese will reach over and give Vietnam a titty twister, or a wedgie, or knock them down and take their lunch money.

    Not only will the highly capable Chinese military intervene to help their allies in Syria, they will also attack Taiwan...this will force the US to fight a three front war: In Syria; on the shore's of Taiwan and China; and in the continental US, where there are 10's of thousands of Chinese agent/saboteurs already deployed. At, or near, the beginning of the breakout of hostilities, the Chinese will almost certainly dump their massive dollar holdings which will trigger an unstoppable cascade of dollar-selling. The American economy will collapse within a few days. Within a month millions of Americans will begin the terrible process of starvation; food riots, break-in's, and murder-for-food will ensue. Within 4-6 months all domestic pets will have been consumed. Within six months the first rumors of cannibalism will begin to emerge. Within a year 100 million Americans will be dead. I'll let your imagination take it from there.

    There won't be many US troops deployed on American soil, they'll all be deployed overseas...the only troops you'll see in America will be UN troops. In case you don't know, there are already thousands of UN vehicles strategically positioned all across the US. How about the FEMA camps...ever hear of them? They're real. I've seen some of them for myself. And what about all those plastic coffins...millions of them positioned all across the US, each one capable of holding five adult bodies. It's these kinds of things that tell us that this whole thing is being orchestrated by international forces...forces that operate over and above the individual Western governments.

    If you're not prepared for this upcoming terribleness you're going to regret it. You will die an awful death. You have been warned.

    As for me, I'll be as snug as a bug in a rug! I've got a list of all the pharmaceuticals I will likely need for my extended underground vacation; when the Chinese dump the dollar, that night, I'll visit the three pharmacies nearest to me and clean them out. After a year or so, I'll pop my head out and see what's what...the stink of your rotting corpses' should be gone by then. I'm not sure what my short-term plans will be...maybe kill a few blue-helmets, liberate a few detention camps, you know, the usual. My long range plan is to search for and locate a good looking young maiden, take her back to my lair, feed her an MRE, and then begin repopulating the earth!
  27. @German_reader
    I'm worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America's establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won't stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
    If European elites weren't so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue...our dependency on the US isn't healthy.

    If European elites weren’t so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue…our dependency on the US isn’t healthy.

    Absolutely agree with this, and the same goes, in spades, for my own country.

    And I recognise that my own country has over the years played its full part in preventing the emergence of anything that might grow into an independent European military structure. As with much of the history of my country’s post-1945 humiliation, I understand the reasons for that, but I believe they expired some time after 1990, along with any justification for Britain’s continued subordination to the US.

    NATO’s continued existence is a big part of the problem, as well as a symptom of it.

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  28. @Avery
    {... while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    WTF.

    SU 'occupied', quote, half of Europe?
    Did the Anglo-American empire occupy (western) half of Europe?
    Does US occupy Germany to this day? Yes or No.

    If it weren't for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers. The 'half of Europe' (Eastern Europe) would be denuded of its (mostly) Slavic, indigenous peoples - to make Lebensraum for the alleged Master Race, which got massively master f___ by the supposed Slavic Untermenschen.

    You neo-Nazi genocidal filth.

    “You neo-Nazi genocidal filth.”

    That’s a somewhat extreme reaction, don’t you think?
    The Soviet Union was an imperialist power and its rule was resented by very large percentages of the populations of Eastern bloc countries. No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been, but then I never denied that (except in your imagination). Doesn’t change the fact the Soviets definitely overstayed ther welcome in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary etc.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been
     
    tell that to these people

    http://orig06.deviantart.net/7f7d/f/2013/327/2/5/holodomor_by_rouesolaire-d6v9ba5.png
    , @Kiza
    Or you could just admit that you ideologically imbued just like the next MSM-fed Westerner. You write a few good points and then show your limitations. I agree with Avery except for his over-reaction of calling you names. You are just an ordinary Westerner (possibly German) with unfulfilled ambition to be more than ordinary.
  29. @Randal

    I’m quite a bit worried that apparently in the American establishment a lot of people seem to take the risk of a shooting war with Russia lightly. I don’t know what to make of it.

    Are people that crazy?
     
    Clearly some either are that crazy or think it's beneficial to bluff. I don't read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.

    Often people seeming "crazy" is just a result of assuming they share your motivations, or motivations you impute to them, when they don't (such as assuming US foreign policy is intended to benefit the US nation, when often it is run for foreign or domestic lobbies' interests that can be directly opposed to those of the US as a whole). Such cases often cover, for instance, US interventionist wars and their "crazy" advocates - though in John McCain's case I'm coming around to the idea he's just been literally insane for some years now. But it's hard to attribute that kind of differential motivation to someone willing to risk nuclear war - who would really benefit from a strategic nuclear exchange? Perhaps it's just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.

    Anyway, I think we will be in a new and genuinely scary place if and when Clinton is elected.

    Perhaps it’s just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.

    I think it’s very similar to how financial risks are built up. Perhaps the traders and executives at Deutsche Bank or Lehman Brothers didn’t actively wish to bankrupt their own institutions, but it paid well to take risks (if you take a risk which will bankrupt you 1% of the time but gives you a slightly above average returns, then many people will take the risk and thrive, because they’ll underestimate the 1% chance since they haven’t seen anything like that in their lives), and when shit hit the fan, they said – hoocoodanode?

    Now I can feel a similar mindset with the Beltway Crowd, they haven’t seen a nuclear war or even a war with major power, so they think its chances are nil. Which they aren’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    Yes, you're probably correct as far as the US regime careerists are concerned.

    You are referring, I think, to a variant of what Taleb described as "picking up pennies in front of a steamroller".
  30. [Randal says:October 7, 2016 at 7:24 pm GMT]

    {….though in John McCain’s case I’m coming around to the idea he’s just been literally insane for some years now. }

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.

    { I don’t read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.}

    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a ‘red line in the sand’ in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.

    Hate to say this, but President Obama never outgrew his Chicago community organizer roots: he simply has no understanding of the world outside of Chicago. That is one reason he is being led by the nose by the evil females in his admin: being led into a possible nuke confrontation with Russia.

    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Obama chickened out himself, and wisely so; Putin simply offered him a figleaf to hide it after the fact.
    , @Randal

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.
     
    Indeed. Though if things had gone a bit differently, he might have been President - now that is as terrifying a prospect as the idea of Clinton winning this time round.


    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a ‘red line in the sand’ in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.
     
    I have never been a fan of Obama, but I find the arguments that he backed away from pushing the Syrian intervention in 2013 plausible. He made a mistake with the "red line" nonsense, but he did not really need to go to Congress at all before striking Syrian forces. The US constitution allows him to start a war and then go to Congress - at which point US jingoism and media interventionism will certainly swing approval for any war, unless it was transparently losing already, and there was little likelihood of that.

    You could argue that he went to Congress out of cowardice, wanting political cover just in case things went disastrously, or you could read it as doing so in the hope of getting what he got - a get-out to allow him to back down. I tend to regard the latter as more plausible in this case.


    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.
     
    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.
  31. @Randal

    Putin’s attempted revival of the Soviet Union
     
    LOL! Every bit as laughable as Saker's silliness about an "Anglo-Zionist empire".

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he’ll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova.
     
    Comical. In Syria, it's the US that is illegally interfering in a sovereign foreign country in support of armed rebels, and that is aggressively trying to "regime change" a longstanding Russian ally, and yet you think anybody honest and informed is going to take your absurd suggestion that "Russia should pull its horns in" seriously!?

    If the US regime adopts any of the "kinetic" options recently suggested by Washington warmongers to try to revive its failed regime change efforts in Syria, it will be essentially declaring war on Russia and risking uncontrolled escalation. For that reason alone, there's some hope at least that the current President will squash such suggestions. A future President might not, if she's the kind of warmongering psychopath she appears to be and her record suggests she is.

    Someone has expansionist plans and fantasies to re-establish their borders at the extent of the ‘old Empire’ out of which they intend to rule the world, and it’s not the Russians.

    Read More
  32. What is possible, however, is the so-called “horizontal escalation” or “asymmetrical escalation” in which one side choses not to up the ante or directly escalate, but instead choses a different target for retaliation, not necessarily a more valuable one, just a different one on the same level of conceptual importance

    Horizontal escalation, however, is still escalatory, and really applies where effectively admitting defeat in the original theatre is regarded as inevitable, but the aggressor is more vulnerable elsewhere.

    An example of threatening horizontal escalation would be if Russia were to signal an intent to attack US interests elsewhere if the US attacks in Syria. The point would be to try to deter the US attack by signalling that the Russians would not accept defeat in Syria lying down.

    The problems with that are twofold – first Russia lacks really useful options to directly attack US interests elsewhere that the US would necessarily fear, and second it’s genuinely difficult to see any such escalatory options that would not be every bit as scary as a direct escalation in Syria by fighting back against US forces intruding into Syria. Attack in Ukraine or Baltic States? Why would that bother the US? – it just creates PR and military occupation problems for Russia and hands the US a propaganda gift in Europe. Support forces fighting US interests in Afghanistan or Iraq? Why would the US be particularly bothered by such pinpricks?

    The point is, we should not under any circumstances regard proposals for US intervention in Syria as anything other than spectacularly dangerous, in terms of the risks of uncontrolled escalation. Giving a weaker military power a choice between humiliating defeat and appeasement of the aggressor, or stepping up the escalatory ladder to its bitter end, does not always end well.

    It’s interesting how the US warmongers’ position is now the opposite of that of early Cold War America, when they believed (or claimed to believe) that the Soviet Union was a genuine threat because it was supposedly militarily stronger in the US’s supposedly vital interest areas in Europe and elsewhere, but insisted that it could be deterred by a resolute insistence that the US would escalate to a suicidal strategic nuclear exchange if necessary, rather than be defeated. Whereas now they are arguing that Russia will be rational and accept defeat rather than escalate to a strategic nuclear exchange, if it is only confronted aggressively enough.

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  33. @reiner Tor

    Perhaps it’s just differential tolerance of risk, but then again that can amount to insanity itself.
     
    I think it's very similar to how financial risks are built up. Perhaps the traders and executives at Deutsche Bank or Lehman Brothers didn't actively wish to bankrupt their own institutions, but it paid well to take risks (if you take a risk which will bankrupt you 1% of the time but gives you a slightly above average returns, then many people will take the risk and thrive, because they'll underestimate the 1% chance since they haven't seen anything like that in their lives), and when shit hit the fan, they said - hoocoodanode?

    Now I can feel a similar mindset with the Beltway Crowd, they haven't seen a nuclear war or even a war with major power, so they think its chances are nil. Which they aren't.

    Yes, you’re probably correct as far as the US regime careerists are concerned.

    You are referring, I think, to a variant of what Taleb described as “picking up pennies in front of a steamroller”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Exactly. Whatever the benefits of kicking the Russians out of Syria to those who are advocating it, I'm sure it's trivial compared to what they'd lose in a nuclear exchange. I'm sure it's a case of bad groupthink, these guys (and gals) live in an intellectual bubble. Even if individually they might think of the risks, they take their clues from the others ("if nobody's worried, there's probably nothing to worry about"), just like traders taking their clues from the market ("it's up, so probably no reason to worry"), the problem is, by the time they realize they miscalculated, it'll be too late for us all. (Besides, they'll blame the evil, irrational Putin for this.)
  34. @Avery
    [Randal says:October 7, 2016 at 7:24 pm GMT]

    {....though in John McCain’s case I’m coming around to the idea he’s just been literally insane for some years now. }

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.

    { I don’t read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.}

    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a 'red line in the sand' in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.

    Hate to say this, but President Obama never outgrew his Chicago community organizer roots: he simply has no understanding of the world outside of Chicago. That is one reason he is being led by the nose by the evil females in his admin: being led into a possible nuke confrontation with Russia.

    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.

    Obama chickened out himself, and wisely so; Putin simply offered him a figleaf to hide it after the fact.

    Read More
  35. @Avery
    [Randal says:October 7, 2016 at 7:24 pm GMT]

    {....though in John McCain’s case I’m coming around to the idea he’s just been literally insane for some years now. }

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.

    { I don’t read Obama as one of them, so it will be interesting to see if he can squash them again.}

    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a 'red line in the sand' in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.

    Hate to say this, but President Obama never outgrew his Chicago community organizer roots: he simply has no understanding of the world outside of Chicago. That is one reason he is being led by the nose by the evil females in his admin: being led into a possible nuke confrontation with Russia.

    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.

    Indeed. Though if things had gone a bit differently, he might have been President – now that is as terrifying a prospect as the idea of Clinton winning this time round.

    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a ‘red line in the sand’ in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.

    I have never been a fan of Obama, but I find the arguments that he backed away from pushing the Syrian intervention in 2013 plausible. He made a mistake with the “red line” nonsense, but he did not really need to go to Congress at all before striking Syrian forces. The US constitution allows him to start a war and then go to Congress – at which point US jingoism and media interventionism will certainly swing approval for any war, unless it was transparently losing already, and there was little likelihood of that.

    You could argue that he went to Congress out of cowardice, wanting political cover just in case things went disastrously, or you could read it as doing so in the hope of getting what he got – a get-out to allow him to back down. I tend to regard the latter as more plausible in this case.

    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.

    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.
     
    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.
  36. @Randal
    Yes, you're probably correct as far as the US regime careerists are concerned.

    You are referring, I think, to a variant of what Taleb described as "picking up pennies in front of a steamroller".

    Exactly. Whatever the benefits of kicking the Russians out of Syria to those who are advocating it, I’m sure it’s trivial compared to what they’d lose in a nuclear exchange. I’m sure it’s a case of bad groupthink, these guys (and gals) live in an intellectual bubble. Even if individually they might think of the risks, they take their clues from the others (“if nobody’s worried, there’s probably nothing to worry about”), just like traders taking their clues from the market (“it’s up, so probably no reason to worry”), the problem is, by the time they realize they miscalculated, it’ll be too late for us all. (Besides, they’ll blame the evil, irrational Putin for this.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "I’m sure it’s a case of bad groupthink, these guys (and gals) live in an intellectual bubble."

    Intellectual bubble? No, no... You give them too much credit. The zionist plutocratic system has been selecting the bestest opportunists for the upper echelon of the US government. The results show: The "echelon" makes the most spectacular collection of the incompetent. Just look at Mike Morell and Sam Power and do not forget Feith, "the dumbest fucking guy on the planet" (in the words of the General Tommy Franks.) By the way, Doug Feith (a dedicated Israel-firster) was trusted with a special task of weeding out the experienced military specialists in Arab culture in order to eliminate any competent influence of the decisions that led eventually to the ongoing Middle East tragedy. The infestation of the US government with zionists went hand-in-hand with lowering the intellectual level of the upper echelon of the US government. Though stupid obnoxiousness went through the roof.

  37. @Avery
    {... while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    WTF.

    SU 'occupied', quote, half of Europe?
    Did the Anglo-American empire occupy (western) half of Europe?
    Does US occupy Germany to this day? Yes or No.

    If it weren't for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers. The 'half of Europe' (Eastern Europe) would be denuded of its (mostly) Slavic, indigenous peoples - to make Lebensraum for the alleged Master Race, which got massively master f___ by the supposed Slavic Untermenschen.

    You neo-Nazi genocidal filth.

    If it weren’t for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers.

    if it weren’t for the genocidal Bolshevik monsters who grabbed Russia ‘by the hair of the head”, and were genociding Ukrainians by the millions – with the intention of doing the same to Germany, then there would never have been any Nazis to begin with.

    the Nazis were an answer to the commie filth that were trying to take over Germany in the 1930s

    Hitler was a response to this deadly threat and anti-human plague upon mankind

    that the Nazis eventually became monsters too, was a direct consequence of having to fight the Bolshevik drooling fiend in the first place

    many people say Hamas is a terrorist organization. But Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary

    Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism

    Gentile resistance movements to the scourge of genocidal Jewish supremacism

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary" - Not exactly. Hamas was actually created with the help of Mossad to delegitimize PLO of Arafat that had international support and was not religious. TPTB always uses the crazies, the extremists to derail the effort of the moderates. Muslim Brotherhood were used by CIA against Nasser but failed. Taliban like opposition was used against Afghanistan regime supported by Soviets in late 1970s to destabilize it and bring Soviet invasion. Al Queda, Al Nusra, Daesh you name them, all financed and supported by CIA and Mossad to destabilize moderate regimes.

    Anyway, you analogy between nazis and bolsheviks was wrong.
    , @Wally
    Don't make me laugh. The 'holocau$t' storyline is a laughable fraud, a scam for money & power.

    The Nazis didn't do what the lying Zionist propaganda alleges.

    There are the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there are the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, or 250,000 at Sobibor) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The massive numbers of so called "survivor$" are living testimony to the fraudulence of the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'.

    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.


    "Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

    - Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist
     

  38. @Randal

    Quite, so: unfortunately, he is still a US Senator, one of select 50. Carries a lot weight. An insane man having so much influence on US foreign policy. What this country has sunk to.
     
    Indeed. Though if things had gone a bit differently, he might have been President - now that is as terrifying a prospect as the idea of Clinton winning this time round.


    Squash them again? When was the last time he did that?
    If memory serves, Obama was almost pushed into a war with Russia by drawing a ‘red line in the sand’ in Syria, until saved by RF President Putin.
     
    I have never been a fan of Obama, but I find the arguments that he backed away from pushing the Syrian intervention in 2013 plausible. He made a mistake with the "red line" nonsense, but he did not really need to go to Congress at all before striking Syrian forces. The US constitution allows him to start a war and then go to Congress - at which point US jingoism and media interventionism will certainly swing approval for any war, unless it was transparently losing already, and there was little likelihood of that.

    You could argue that he went to Congress out of cowardice, wanting political cover just in case things went disastrously, or you could read it as doing so in the hope of getting what he got - a get-out to allow him to back down. I tend to regard the latter as more plausible in this case.


    The evil beatches are insane: they are going to get us all killed.
     
    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.

    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.

    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Actors during the Cuban missile crisis had also lived through the world wars, even the American side back then at least had an inkling what war among great powers was really like (JFK was a flawed person, but after all he was a combat veteran and had lost one brother in WW2). I'm worried that knowledge and the consequent restraint has been lost among the current leadership...the mindless bellicosity of some American politicians disturbs me.
    , @Randal

    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.
     
    Yes, I agree with pretty much all you and German_reader have said here about the calibre of the people involved, and the likely reasons for their inadequacy next to past generations.

    I still think it's hard to really claim we aren't somewhat safer without the possibility of a technical fault or hair trigger over-reaction initiating a nuclear exchange within a few minutes, though. But that's not really all that encouraging.

    That aside, I agree we are probably at a much higher risk of escalation to open conventional war between the US and Russia than we ever were in the Cold War, with all that implies. And no doubt before that happens we'll be back to launch on warning anyway.
  39. @German_reader
    "You neo-Nazi genocidal filth."

    That's a somewhat extreme reaction, don't you think?
    The Soviet Union was an imperialist power and its rule was resented by very large percentages of the populations of Eastern bloc countries. No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been, but then I never denied that (except in your imagination). Doesn't change the fact the Soviets definitely overstayed ther welcome in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary etc.

    No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been

    tell that to these people

    http://orig06.deviantart.net/7f7d/f/2013/327/2/5/holodomor_by_rouesolaire-d6v9ba5.png

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    lol, one obsessive tells me I'm a Nazi, and now you're trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn't Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?
    , @pogohere
    The notion that the Ukraine was subjected to a deliberate genocide in the 1930s has been subjected to considerable study that puts in doubt that notion.

    See: Fraud, Famine and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard.

    http://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

    Take particular note of the pictures that were faked and misrepresented.
  40. @Rurik

    No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been
     
    tell that to these people

    http://orig06.deviantart.net/7f7d/f/2013/327/2/5/holodomor_by_rouesolaire-d6v9ba5.png

    lol, one obsessive tells me I’m a Nazi, and now you’re trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn’t Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {lol, one obsessive tells me I’m a Nazi, and now you’re trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn’t Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?}

    You did write this above did you not: {… while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    What does Soviet Union have to do with the topic at hand - the current Syrian crises. If you open the door to something, don't complain if posters take advantage.
    , @Rurik
    on topic

    someone blinked

    http://theduran.com/us-backs-down-over-syria-following-russian-threat-shoot-down-american-aircraft/
  41. @reiner Tor

    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.
     
    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.

    Actors during the Cuban missile crisis had also lived through the world wars, even the American side back then at least had an inkling what war among great powers was really like (JFK was a flawed person, but after all he was a combat veteran and had lost one brother in WW2). I’m worried that knowledge and the consequent restraint has been lost among the current leadership…the mindless bellicosity of some American politicians disturbs me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Same thing with financial crises: 2008 would not have been possible if the traders who lived through the 1930s were still alive and in business. The lessons couldn't be forgotten, until a new generation came that never learned them in the first place.
  42. @in the middle
    Might as well leave the Chinese outside, since all they know is to copy western products, and make mythical kung fu movies. The last time they fought, they were beating badly by the Vietnamese! So, it is Russia, and Iran, both have not lost a war for generations, so they can hold it on their own, I think.

    For some bizarre reason you wrote…

    The last time they fought, they were beating badly by the Vietnamese!

    What are you referring to? As far as I know the Chinese have dominated the Vietnamese for more than a thousand years…every once in a while the Chinese will reach over and give Vietnam a titty twister, or a wedgie, or knock them down and take their lunch money.

    Not only will the highly capable Chinese military intervene to help their allies in Syria, they will also attack Taiwan…this will force the US to fight a three front war: In Syria; on the shore’s of Taiwan and China; and in the continental US, where there are 10′s of thousands of Chinese agent/saboteurs already deployed. At, or near, the beginning of the breakout of hostilities, the Chinese will almost certainly dump their massive dollar holdings which will trigger an unstoppable cascade of dollar-selling. The American economy will collapse within a few days. Within a month millions of Americans will begin the terrible process of starvation; food riots, break-in’s, and murder-for-food will ensue. Within 4-6 months all domestic pets will have been consumed. Within six months the first rumors of cannibalism will begin to emerge. Within a year 100 million Americans will be dead. I’ll let your imagination take it from there.

    There won’t be many US troops deployed on American soil, they’ll all be deployed overseas…the only troops you’ll see in America will be UN troops. In case you don’t know, there are already thousands of UN vehicles strategically positioned all across the US. How about the FEMA camps…ever hear of them? They’re real. I’ve seen some of them for myself. And what about all those plastic coffins…millions of them positioned all across the US, each one capable of holding five adult bodies. It’s these kinds of things that tell us that this whole thing is being orchestrated by international forces…forces that operate over and above the individual Western governments.

    If you’re not prepared for this upcoming terribleness you’re going to regret it. You will die an awful death. You have been warned.

    As for me, I’ll be as snug as a bug in a rug! I’ve got a list of all the pharmaceuticals I will likely need for my extended underground vacation; when the Chinese dump the dollar, that night, I’ll visit the three pharmacies nearest to me and clean them out. After a year or so, I’ll pop my head out and see what’s what…the stink of your rotting corpses’ should be gone by then. I’m not sure what my short-term plans will be…maybe kill a few blue-helmets, liberate a few detention camps, you know, the usual. My long range plan is to search for and locate a good looking young maiden, take her back to my lair, feed her an MRE, and then begin repopulating the earth!

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  43. @German_reader
    I'm worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America's establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won't stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
    If European elites weren't so useless, cowardly or even complicit in this whole mess it would be recognized that some sort of independent European security structure is overdue...our dependency on the US isn't healthy.

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.

    Yes, that’s my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I’d really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…

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    • LOL: Rurik
    • Replies: @German_reader
    "But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…"

    It's depressing, but I think you can be proud about what you've already achieved with this site...it's certainly appreciated by myself and many other readers.
    As for elites in the US and many European countries, I really do wonder how we ended up with people so obviously deluded and incompetent in charge. Something seems to have gone seriously wrong in the last 25 years.
    , @Avery
    {...preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders,..}

    Ouch!

    [Wood Chipper Scene Fargo]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyPhsD1vHGk
    , @Randal

    Personally, I’d really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.
     
    Bloody hell!

    It's good to know you think it, but it's probably best not to say it out loud! In vino veritas?

    But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…
     
    You're doing what you can, and more than most.
    , @Rabbitnexus
    Never mind these yammering fairies brother, I'll supply the wood chipper and help load the b@st@rds into it.
    , @KA
    One wonders what they would to Iranians or Russian? One thing is sure NYT and Guradian or MSNBC will not disappoint Mr Hain .



    "In 2007, the senior British official responsible for the sanctions, Carne Ross, known as “Mr. Iraq”, told a parliamentary selection committee, “[The US and UK governments] effectively denied the entire population a means to live.” When I interviewed Carne Ross three years later, he was consumed by regret and contrition. “I feel ashamed,” he said. He is today a rare truth-teller of how governments deceive and how a compliant media plays a critical role in disseminating and maintaining the deception. “We would feed [journalists] factoids of sanitised intelligence,” he said, “or we’d freeze them out.” Last year, a not untypical headline in the Guardian read: “Faced with the horror of Isis we must act.” The “we must act” is a ghost risen, a warning of the suppression of informed memory, facts, lessons learned and regrets or shame. The author of the article was Peter Hain, the former Foreign Office minister responsible for Iraq under Blair. In 1998, when Denis Halliday revealed the extent of the suffering in Iraq for which the Blair Government shared primary responsibility, Hain abused him on the BBC’s Newsnight as an “apologist for Saddam”. In 2003, Hain backed Blair’s invasion of stricken Iraq on the basis of transparent lies. At a subsequent Labour Party conference, he dismissed the invasion as a “fringe issue”.

    Here was Hain demanding “air strikes, drones, military equipment and other support” for those “facing genocide” in Iraq and Syria. This will further “the imperative of a political solution”. The day Hain’s article appeared, Denis Halliday and Hans Von Sponeck happened to be in London and came to visit me. They were not shocked by the lethal hypocrisy of a politician, but lamented the enduring, almost inexplicable absence of intelligent diplomacy in negotiating a semblance of truce. Across the world, from Northern Ireland to Nepal, those regarding each other as terrorists and heretics have faced each other across a table. Why not now in Iraq and Syria? Instead, there is a vapid, almost sociopathic verboseness from Cameron, Hollande, Obama and their “coalition of the willing” as they prescribe more violence delivered from 30,000 feet on places where the blood of previous adventures never dried. They seem to relish their own violence and stupidityso much they want it to overthrow their one potentially valuable ally, the government in Syria."

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/17/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried/
    , @reiner Tor
    You're doing the good work here, this is a fantastic site (even if I don't agree on important issues with probably a majority of columnists/commentators here - well, they don't agree with each other, but that's nothing to worry about), and I think it has had a huge effect already.

    I'd really be happy if members of the American Regime came to their senses (I mean the oligarchs, not the spineless politicians), as I really don't wish for a violent revolution. But they might be stupid enough to provoke their own most violent demise...

    , @jimbojones
    Ron, didn't know you are a drinking man. Glad to have you back.
  44. @German_reader
    Actors during the Cuban missile crisis had also lived through the world wars, even the American side back then at least had an inkling what war among great powers was really like (JFK was a flawed person, but after all he was a combat veteran and had lost one brother in WW2). I'm worried that knowledge and the consequent restraint has been lost among the current leadership...the mindless bellicosity of some American politicians disturbs me.

    Same thing with financial crises: 2008 would not have been possible if the traders who lived through the 1930s were still alive and in business. The lessons couldn’t be forgotten, until a new generation came that never learned them in the first place.

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  45. @German_reader
    lol, one obsessive tells me I'm a Nazi, and now you're trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn't Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?

    {lol, one obsessive tells me I’m a Nazi, and now you’re trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn’t Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?}

    You did write this above did you not: {… while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    What does Soviet Union have to do with the topic at hand – the current Syrian crises. If you open the door to something, don’t complain if posters take advantage.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I merely meant to contrast the situation during the Cold war with the situation now. During the Cold war there was serious ideological conflict between the West and the Soviet Union. Still, open war was mercifully avoided. It would be absurd and an unforgivable failing of the responsible politicians if it came to a US/NATO-Russia war now when there is no ideological conflict, no real clash of vital interests, and actually quite a few areas where Russia and Western countries should have common interests (e.g. combating Islamism).
    You may of course disagree, but calling me a Nazi was certainly a bizarre overreaction.
  46. @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...

    “But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…”

    It’s depressing, but I think you can be proud about what you’ve already achieved with this site…it’s certainly appreciated by myself and many other readers.
    As for elites in the US and many European countries, I really do wonder how we ended up with people so obviously deluded and incompetent in charge. Something seems to have gone seriously wrong in the last 25 years.

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    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
    It's actually the last 50 years German Reader.

    Our leaders have been corrupted by the sexual revolution, they are all now quite immoral.

    Read the stuff about Trump on Zerohedge, it is something we have known for quite a while, rich powerful men can have whatever they want, women throw themselves at the powerful and they feel no reason to restrain themselves.

    We are the shameless generation.............we feel no shame no matter the size of the indulgence or lie.

    Read the "Obscured American" a woman has a child without a father. Women without thought destroy their own unborn babies. The media blatantly lie and distort not in the service of truth but for politics. Children are molested, etc, etc.

    There is no end to the evil of this generation, and the only thing that is missing is voices raised in condemnation.

    This won't end here, the moral decline of the west is leading to destruction. The leaders we now get are the worst of men and women, not the best.
    , @Stonehands
    "...As for elites in the US and many European countries,..."


    Here they are, right here on the Unz- the elites. After all it is the mind [Idea] which forms the world, not vice- versa.
  47. @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...

    {…preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders,..}

    Ouch!

    [Wood Chipper Scene Fargo]

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  48. @Avery
    {lol, one obsessive tells me I’m a Nazi, and now you’re trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn’t Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?}

    You did write this above did you not: {… while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe}

    What does Soviet Union have to do with the topic at hand - the current Syrian crises. If you open the door to something, don't complain if posters take advantage.

    I merely meant to contrast the situation during the Cold war with the situation now. During the Cold war there was serious ideological conflict between the West and the Soviet Union. Still, open war was mercifully avoided. It would be absurd and an unforgivable failing of the responsible politicians if it came to a US/NATO-Russia war now when there is no ideological conflict, no real clash of vital interests, and actually quite a few areas where Russia and Western countries should have common interests (e.g. combating Islamism).
    You may of course disagree, but calling me a Nazi was certainly a bizarre overreaction.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "...few areas where Russia and Western countries should have common interests (e.g. combating Islamism)."

    It is so ironical that while discussing a topic on the evil, western civilisation is up to, Islamism, which is not even a fraction of that evil, should even get mentioned.

    It just appears to be racist's fervent hope that whites desist from going back to killing each other, and stick to killing off the "darkies."

    You quite deceitfully fail to acknowledge that the roots of this Islamism you speak of, has been the age old evil imperial desire to subjugate non-whites, and "kindly" impart to them your own delusional faith.

    When will the likes of you understand that Muslims already have a good handle on spiritual comprehension, the unshakeable Tawhid (look it up), and it is the west with its Pagan Polytheist beliefs, which requires spiritual reformation.
  49. @German_reader
    "You neo-Nazi genocidal filth."

    That's a somewhat extreme reaction, don't you think?
    The Soviet Union was an imperialist power and its rule was resented by very large percentages of the populations of Eastern bloc countries. No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been, but then I never denied that (except in your imagination). Doesn't change the fact the Soviets definitely overstayed ther welcome in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary etc.

    Or you could just admit that you ideologically imbued just like the next MSM-fed Westerner. You write a few good points and then show your limitations. I agree with Avery except for his over-reaction of calling you names. You are just an ordinary Westerner (possibly German) with unfulfilled ambition to be more than ordinary.

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  50. @reiner Tor

    Certainly imo a higher risk of that than at any time since strategic nuclear missile forces were last at launch on warning.
     
    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.

    The highest risk ever. During the Cuban crisis and similar events, all actors were aware of the possible consequences of their actions. Now, not so much.

    Yes, I agree with pretty much all you and German_reader have said here about the calibre of the people involved, and the likely reasons for their inadequacy next to past generations.

    I still think it’s hard to really claim we aren’t somewhat safer without the possibility of a technical fault or hair trigger over-reaction initiating a nuclear exchange within a few minutes, though. But that’s not really all that encouraging.

    That aside, I agree we are probably at a much higher risk of escalation to open conventional war between the US and Russia than we ever were in the Cold War, with all that implies. And no doubt before that happens we’ll be back to launch on warning anyway.

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  51. @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...

    Personally, I’d really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    Bloody hell!

    It’s good to know you think it, but it’s probably best not to say it out loud! In vino veritas?

    But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…

    You’re doing what you can, and more than most.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {You’re doing what you can, and more than most.}

    Agree.
    Kudos to Mr. Unz for creating and running UNZ.com.
    Its effectiveness can be gauged by the sustained DoS attacks it endured for a couple of weeks or so. (who was it?)

    (RT.com, another site (funded by Moscow) which counters and debunks the Neocon MSM disinformation and propaganda, also was under sustained DoS attack a couple of weeks ago).

    So the venomous reptiles are feeling threatened in their dark and damp den when the torchlight of truth is shone on them.

    Again, Thanks and Kudos to Mr. Unz and the team at UNZ.com for providing the platform.

  52. @Rurik

    If it weren’t for the SU, all of Europe would be under the jack-boots of Nazi occupiers.
     
    if it weren't for the genocidal Bolshevik monsters who grabbed Russia 'by the hair of the head", and were genociding Ukrainians by the millions - with the intention of doing the same to Germany, then there would never have been any Nazis to begin with.

    the Nazis were an answer to the commie filth that were trying to take over Germany in the 1930s

    Hitler was a response to this deadly threat and anti-human plague upon mankind

    that the Nazis eventually became monsters too, was a direct consequence of having to fight the Bolshevik drooling fiend in the first place

    many people say Hamas is a terrorist organization. But Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary

    Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism

    Gentile resistance movements to the scourge of genocidal Jewish supremacism

    “Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary” – Not exactly. Hamas was actually created with the help of Mossad to delegitimize PLO of Arafat that had international support and was not religious. TPTB always uses the crazies, the extremists to derail the effort of the moderates. Muslim Brotherhood were used by CIA against Nasser but failed. Taliban like opposition was used against Afghanistan regime supported by Soviets in late 1970s to destabilize it and bring Soviet invasion. Al Queda, Al Nusra, Daesh you name them, all financed and supported by CIA and Mossad to destabilize moderate regimes.

    Anyway, you analogy between nazis and bolsheviks was wrong.

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    • Disagree: Rurik, SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    oops -- read Rurik's analogy, Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism
    more closely. It's not quite right in that Bolsheviks did not actively create Nazism, whereas Zionists definitely had a hand in creating Hamas.

    ALTHOUGH -- on third thought -- The Deborah Lipstadt brigade wants to keep "revisionists" sniffing around for gas chambers and getting put in jail for challenging the sacred number.

    I guess I watched too many Colombo programs: putting on a shabby trench coat and smoking a cigar automatically tunes you into the fact that the guilty party is trying to distract you from the real scene of the crime by challenging the legitimacy of clues at the false scene of the crime.
    If revisionists stay focused on Auschwitz, they won't investigate the real Allied crimes that were hatched by FDR, Bernard Baruch, Brandeis-Frankfurter-Morgenthau, Churchill, etc. They are totally unrelated to some Hollywood concoction tagged holocaust; it's not just the few details that Revisionists challenge but the whole holocaust narrative that is bogus.
    It may just be the case that Hitler was a tool of the Anglo Zionists just as Saddam and bin Laden were; once they'd served their purpose, they were eliminated (the Hitler case was a tad more complicated, but the masses of anti-Hitler propaganda that are still dumped on the sheeple broadly suggests that there is some huge, huge truth -- bigger even than the 9/11 coverup -- that the unwashed must not ever be permitted to discover.

    It may well be that "Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism"
    ---> Zionists created Hamas just as Zionists created Nazism.

    I listened to this talk, by Jeremy Black, https://www.c-span.org/video/?407529-1/dwight-d-eisenhower-cold-war , while wearing a shabby trench coat and smoking a cigar. Black argues that the USA began the Cold War -- began waging war on Bolsheviks -- his term -- in WWI, and that "WWII was an interruption in that anti-Bolshevik campaign," which USA took up again in 1945.
    Black made the obligatory comment about Hitler: "to call Hitler 'mad' is to insult mad people everywhere . . ."
    I think I learned in Psych 101 that unless Pavlov's dog is randomly reinforced, it will stop salivating when the bell is rung.
    otoh, I didn't do so well in Psych 101: I don't remember what happens when the mutt is over-reinforced: does it explode? Does it go mad and bite the hand that feeds it?
  53. Pentagon Begins Low-Intensity, Stealth War in Syria

    “Last Wednesday, at a Deputies Committee meeting at the White House, officials from the State Department, the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff discussed limited military strikes against the (Assad) regime … One proposed way to get around the White House’s long-standing objection to striking the Assad regime without a U.N. Security Council resolution would be to carry out the strikes covertly and without public acknowledgment.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/07/pentagon-begins-low-intensity-stealth-war-in-syria/

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  54. @German_reader
    lol, one obsessive tells me I'm a Nazi, and now you're trying to lecture me on Soviet crimes. Is is that hard to stay on topic (which isn't Nazis and commies, but the current Syrian crisis)?
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    • Replies: @Avery
    {someone blinked}

    Nope.
    It's a foil.

    The reptiles are publicly disavowing it so that when they do it, they will claim ignorance or a "mistake".

    They might force some hapless NATO 'partners' (expendables) to bomb and get shot down to spare the embarrassment of a USAF jet being shot down.

    But the reptiles will not give up that easy.

  55. @German_reader
    For once I actually largely agree with the Saker; and I hope he's right about Russian strategy...I wouldn't really find it objectionable if the Russians killed US, British or French advisors or whoever is aiding the rebels in Syria. I just hope Russia wouldn't react with an invasion of the Baltic states or something similar, that would be a nightmare scenario.

    There is ZERO chance of a Russian invasion anywhere. They are not set up for such secenarios, this is a defensive military with amazing standoff capabilities. Any talk of Russian invasions is pure NATO driven hysteria.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I don't have a military background so I'm totally unqualified to judge that; I've just recently seen it claimed that Russia could overrun the Baltic states in 60 hours, and NATO couldn't do much about it ( http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/would-russia-attack-invade-the-baltics-could-americas-17921 ). But of course that may just be scaremongering, for laymen like me it's hard to know what to believe about these matters.
  56. @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...

    Never mind these yammering fairies brother, I’ll supply the wood chipper and help load the b@st@rds into it.

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  57. @Rabbitnexus
    There is ZERO chance of a Russian invasion anywhere. They are not set up for such secenarios, this is a defensive military with amazing standoff capabilities. Any talk of Russian invasions is pure NATO driven hysteria.

    I don’t have a military background so I’m totally unqualified to judge that; I’ve just recently seen it claimed that Russia could overrun the Baltic states in 60 hours, and NATO couldn’t do much about it ( http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/would-russia-attack-invade-the-baltics-could-americas-17921 ). But of course that may just be scaremongering, for laymen like me it’s hard to know what to believe about these matters.

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  58. @Rurik
    on topic

    someone blinked

    http://theduran.com/us-backs-down-over-syria-following-russian-threat-shoot-down-american-aircraft/

    {someone blinked}

    Nope.
    It’s a foil.

    The reptiles are publicly disavowing it so that when they do it, they will claim ignorance or a “mistake”.

    They might force some hapless NATO ‘partners’ (expendables) to bomb and get shot down to spare the embarrassment of a USAF jet being shot down.

    But the reptiles will not give up that easy.

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    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @schmenz
    This is curious:

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/is-the-us-preparing-a-false-flag-bombing-in-syria.html#more
  59. I believe that this is the main point of this whole discussion: the Ziocons and their terrorists have suffered a major defeat, they are fuming now and they are guaranteed to reach for their usual false-flag toolbox: just like 911, MH17, attack on UN convoy and so on. We simply need to appreciate that Ziocons control CIA and most of DoD. The former now have instructions to prepare false-flags, because humanitarian-catastrophe propaganda on Aleppo has not worked sufficiently well. In short, the Ziocons will not give up on Syria and just move on to creating their ‘better-luck’ next war.

    Because I remember the US War on Vietnam (not Vietnam War) so well, I liked how Jack Perry describs the contemporary Kool-Aid party: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/jack-perry/pentagon-kool-aid-party/

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    that's a great article

    I remember when someone asked Mel Gibson why he made the movie Apocalypto, and he said he wanted to show the folly of mindless human sacrifice, because he wanted us to stop it. And the interviewer said something like 'well that certainly isn't going on today', whereupon Gibson said something to the effect.. 'what is war if not ritual human sacrifice?'

    Jack Perry is right about the Americans today, but it isn't a phenomena restricted only to Americans. If there's a war between Russia and Ukraine, it will be because their governments have created in the people a patriotic and myopic sense of singular grievance against the 'others'. The Ukrainians see the Russians as unrepentant for the myriad crimes of the imperial Soviets, and the Russians see the Ukrainians as Nazi apologists and neo-fascists. Neither are wholly right or wrong in their respective assessments. The Russians are unapologetic and even pugnacious in remembering that terrible war and their terrible loses. So too are the Ukrainians, unapologetic and belligerent in their demands that their ancestors too were heroes fighting a just cause. I can easily see both people's perspectives and make sense of their arguments... but the problem is that their governments cynically use their people's deeply felt sympathies to bolster and consolidate their own respective power, by tweaking patriotic and nationalist basic human proclivities. And by insisting that we were/are the "good" guys, and they are the "bad' guys!

    That's what governments do.

    As you often point out, the Jewish people are not congenitally a uniquely cursed or blessed people. But their religious leaders might tell them so, in order to bolster the power and influence of those religious (or political) leaders. And Israeli politicians are not above doing what Hitler did, and scapegoating an entire race of people as the fount of all their problems in the world. It's what governments (and their media whores) do.

    So yea, the Americans do suffer under the delusion that their government is uniquely "good", because just like the Ukrainians and Russians and Israeli Jews and Syrians and every body else, they look inside their own hearts and see nothing but goodness. And so when they hear their governments tell them that these evil people have attacked us, because they're evil! - they tend to believe it because they know themselves to be good. And so this tragicomedy gets played like a broken record over the eons of time.

    We never learn to distrust all so-called authority, and decide for ourselves what's right and what's wrong. Instead we contract that stuff out to a higher authority. Religion and government or charismatic cult leaders. Any by doing so, we reap a bitter harvest.

    There's a temptation to blame the stupid, venal and self-absorbed Americans for the crimes of our government. And I too feel great frustration at their resistance to think for themselves. But this phenomena is not unique to only Americans. And I would point out that in all the recent presidential elections, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate, (only to be betrayed).

    So I see the folly of the koolaid drinkers to be a human phenomena, and not a uniquely American phenomena. In the last century the Russians, the Germans, the Japanese, the Brits, the Italians, the Spanish, the French, the Israelis, the Saudis, and so many other peoples were similarly marching off to slaughter 'others' who had wronged them somehow, as it was explained to them by their governments. I just hope and pray that this century don't look like the last one, when it's all said and done.
  60. Perhaps the sensible Russian move is to involve Israel. Inform them that if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel. Suggest Russia has lost patience and Israel could face depressed trajectory nukes from Russian submarines. End of Regime. Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes. Suggest that Israel has a real come to Jesus moment about playing hardball.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes
     
    but then what would the West do?

    Putin would have to arrange with the West that once the wicked witch was dispatched, that they'd know they could all finally be free to pursue their destinies

    imagine the collective sigh that the world would gasp

    it would be like the death of Sauron

    Frodo as Putin, Sam as the West, reaching out to his brother who just freed mankind

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acTlEucunRY

    the dispersing orcs as the neocons and head slicers of ISIS

    all the expressions of the wizard and king and hobbits.. it's too perfect
    , @Randal
    Now that would be horizontal escalation, in spades.
    , @German_reader
    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea...why should Putin do that? My impression is he's somewhat pro-Jewish and has tried to maintain reasonably good relations with Israel (not without at least some success...iirc Israel didn't support a UN resolution condemning the annexation of Crimea back in 2014).
    Besides, doesn't Israel have at least limited second strike capability via its nuclear armed submarines?
    , @Erebus

    ...if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel.
     
    I may have heard one better the other night in a pub discussion.

    Should the US unleash a swarm of Tomahawks from the mid-Med, or wherever, Russian EW specialists should focus on re-targetting them mid-flight... to Tel Aviv. A few to Riyadh would drive the message home.

    Imagine the pants wetting, spittle spewing, hair-on-fire hysteria in Washington... priceless.
    Too bad that the Kremlin seems to lack a sense of humour...
    , @Sam J.
    Harry Huntington's suggestion to target Israel is exactly what should be done.

    As Saker said,"...one superpower has clearly gone insane.
    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo..."

    The Jews run the US and the Jews are willing to fight down to the last American. So yes they're all for nuclear war between Russia\China and the US. At the same time they nuke the Arabs and the Persians. It would take away all their enemies in one fell swoop. It would take away all those problems with the pesky 9-11 situation. Like building 7 that fell the same speed as a rock dropped in air. Like building 7 was only held up with air when it fell. We know the building wasn't floating in air so we also know the bottom was demoed out from under it. It would take away all those problems of the Russians realizing that 66 million of their people were killed by the Jewish gulags.

    The pattern is the same. At one time the USSR was run by the Jews. They in turn became the evil aggressors of the planet. Now they have control of the US and we are the evil aggressors of the planet.

    The Jews are a tribe of psychopaths. They, while a little smarter than most humans, mostly rely on aggression and the knowledge that most humans don't envision how fucked up they are in the head. They get away with a lot of nonsense because most people can't imagine themselves doing such ridiculously evil things. As soon as you recognize that they're a tribe of psychopaths their behavior and their clients behavior makes perfect sense. They don't care how many people they kill. They want power at ALL cost. Nothing is to costly for them to obtain power over everyone.

    The only method that psychologist have come up with to deal with psychopaths is to get them away from you. The Jews have been thrown out of every single country they've ever been to in any significant numbers. It's time to throw them out of the US.
  61. @Randal

    Personally, I’d really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.
     
    Bloody hell!

    It's good to know you think it, but it's probably best not to say it out loud! In vino veritas?

    But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…
     
    You're doing what you can, and more than most.

    {You’re doing what you can, and more than most.}

    Agree.
    Kudos to Mr. Unz for creating and running UNZ.com.
    Its effectiveness can be gauged by the sustained DoS attacks it endured for a couple of weeks or so. (who was it?)

    (RT.com, another site (funded by Moscow) which counters and debunks the Neocon MSM disinformation and propaganda, also was under sustained DoS attack a couple of weeks ago).

    So the venomous reptiles are feeling threatened in their dark and damp den when the torchlight of truth is shone on them.

    Again, Thanks and Kudos to Mr. Unz and the team at UNZ.com for providing the platform.

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  62. @Kiza
    I believe that this is the main point of this whole discussion: the Ziocons and their terrorists have suffered a major defeat, they are fuming now and they are guaranteed to reach for their usual false-flag toolbox: just like 911, MH17, attack on UN convoy and so on. We simply need to appreciate that Ziocons control CIA and most of DoD. The former now have instructions to prepare false-flags, because humanitarian-catastrophe propaganda on Aleppo has not worked sufficiently well. In short, the Ziocons will not give up on Syria and just move on to creating their 'better-luck' next war.

    Because I remember the US War on Vietnam (not Vietnam War) so well, I liked how Jack Perry describs the contemporary Kool-Aid party: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/jack-perry/pentagon-kool-aid-party/

    that’s a great article

    I remember when someone asked Mel Gibson why he made the movie Apocalypto, and he said he wanted to show the folly of mindless human sacrifice, because he wanted us to stop it. And the interviewer said something like ‘well that certainly isn’t going on today’, whereupon Gibson said something to the effect.. ‘what is war if not ritual human sacrifice?’

    Jack Perry is right about the Americans today, but it isn’t a phenomena restricted only to Americans. If there’s a war between Russia and Ukraine, it will be because their governments have created in the people a patriotic and myopic sense of singular grievance against the ‘others’. The Ukrainians see the Russians as unrepentant for the myriad crimes of the imperial Soviets, and the Russians see the Ukrainians as Nazi apologists and neo-fascists. Neither are wholly right or wrong in their respective assessments. The Russians are unapologetic and even pugnacious in remembering that terrible war and their terrible loses. So too are the Ukrainians, unapologetic and belligerent in their demands that their ancestors too were heroes fighting a just cause. I can easily see both people’s perspectives and make sense of their arguments… but the problem is that their governments cynically use their people’s deeply felt sympathies to bolster and consolidate their own respective power, by tweaking patriotic and nationalist basic human proclivities. And by insisting that we were/are the “good” guys, and they are the “bad’ guys!

    That’s what governments do.

    As you often point out, the Jewish people are not congenitally a uniquely cursed or blessed people. But their religious leaders might tell them so, in order to bolster the power and influence of those religious (or political) leaders. And Israeli politicians are not above doing what Hitler did, and scapegoating an entire race of people as the fount of all their problems in the world. It’s what governments (and their media whores) do.

    So yea, the Americans do suffer under the delusion that their government is uniquely “good”, because just like the Ukrainians and Russians and Israeli Jews and Syrians and every body else, they look inside their own hearts and see nothing but goodness. And so when they hear their governments tell them that these evil people have attacked us, because they’re evil! – they tend to believe it because they know themselves to be good. And so this tragicomedy gets played like a broken record over the eons of time.

    We never learn to distrust all so-called authority, and decide for ourselves what’s right and what’s wrong. Instead we contract that stuff out to a higher authority. Religion and government or charismatic cult leaders. Any by doing so, we reap a bitter harvest.

    There’s a temptation to blame the stupid, venal and self-absorbed Americans for the crimes of our government. And I too feel great frustration at their resistance to think for themselves. But this phenomena is not unique to only Americans. And I would point out that in all the recent presidential elections, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate, (only to be betrayed).

    So I see the folly of the koolaid drinkers to be a human phenomena, and not a uniquely American phenomena. In the last century the Russians, the Germans, the Japanese, the Brits, the Italians, the Spanish, the French, the Israelis, the Saudis, and so many other peoples were similarly marching off to slaughter ‘others’ who had wronged them somehow, as it was explained to them by their governments. I just hope and pray that this century don’t look like the last one, when it’s all said and done.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Yes, it is useful to hold a mental picture of the US Government as the death cult in the service of Greater Israel and to contrast today's Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?
  63. @Harry Huntington
    Perhaps the sensible Russian move is to involve Israel. Inform them that if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel. Suggest Russia has lost patience and Israel could face depressed trajectory nukes from Russian submarines. End of Regime. Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes. Suggest that Israel has a real come to Jesus moment about playing hardball.

    Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes

    but then what would the West do?

    Putin would have to arrange with the West that once the wicked witch was dispatched, that they’d know they could all finally be free to pursue their destinies

    imagine the collective sigh that the world would gasp

    it would be like the death of Sauron

    Frodo as Putin, Sam as the West, reaching out to his brother who just freed mankind

    the dispersing orcs as the neocons and head slicers of ISIS

    all the expressions of the wizard and king and hobbits.. it’s too perfect

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  64. @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...

    One wonders what they would to Iranians or Russian? One thing is sure NYT and Guradian or MSNBC will not disappoint Mr Hain .

    “In 2007, the senior British official responsible for the sanctions, Carne Ross, known as “Mr. Iraq”, told a parliamentary selection committee, “[The US and UK governments] effectively denied the entire population a means to live.” When I interviewed Carne Ross three years later, he was consumed by regret and contrition. “I feel ashamed,” he said. He is today a rare truth-teller of how governments deceive and how a compliant media plays a critical role in disseminating and maintaining the deception. “We would feed [journalists] factoids of sanitised intelligence,” he said, “or we’d freeze them out.” Last year, a not untypical headline in the Guardian read: “Faced with the horror of Isis we must act.” The “we must act” is a ghost risen, a warning of the suppression of informed memory, facts, lessons learned and regrets or shame. The author of the article was Peter Hain, the former Foreign Office minister responsible for Iraq under Blair. In 1998, when Denis Halliday revealed the extent of the suffering in Iraq for which the Blair Government shared primary responsibility, Hain abused him on the BBC’s Newsnight as an “apologist for Saddam”. In 2003, Hain backed Blair’s invasion of stricken Iraq on the basis of transparent lies. At a subsequent Labour Party conference, he dismissed the invasion as a “fringe issue”.

    Here was Hain demanding “air strikes, drones, military equipment and other support” for those “facing genocide” in Iraq and Syria. This will further “the imperative of a political solution”. The day Hain’s article appeared, Denis Halliday and Hans Von Sponeck happened to be in London and came to visit me. They were not shocked by the lethal hypocrisy of a politician, but lamented the enduring, almost inexplicable absence of intelligent diplomacy in negotiating a semblance of truce. Across the world, from Northern Ireland to Nepal, those regarding each other as terrorists and heretics have faced each other across a table. Why not now in Iraq and Syria? Instead, there is a vapid, almost sociopathic verboseness from Cameron, Hollande, Obama and their “coalition of the willing” as they prescribe more violence delivered from 30,000 feet on places where the blood of previous adventures never dried. They seem to relish their own violence and stupidityso much they want it to overthrow their one potentially valuable ally, the government in Syria.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/17/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried/

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    • Replies: @5371
    The repellent Hain became famous as an opponent of apartheid in South Africa.
  65. @Harry Huntington
    Perhaps the sensible Russian move is to involve Israel. Inform them that if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel. Suggest Russia has lost patience and Israel could face depressed trajectory nukes from Russian submarines. End of Regime. Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes. Suggest that Israel has a real come to Jesus moment about playing hardball.

    Now that would be horizontal escalation, in spades.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Horizontal escalation in more meanings than one.
  66. @Rurik
    that's a great article

    I remember when someone asked Mel Gibson why he made the movie Apocalypto, and he said he wanted to show the folly of mindless human sacrifice, because he wanted us to stop it. And the interviewer said something like 'well that certainly isn't going on today', whereupon Gibson said something to the effect.. 'what is war if not ritual human sacrifice?'

    Jack Perry is right about the Americans today, but it isn't a phenomena restricted only to Americans. If there's a war between Russia and Ukraine, it will be because their governments have created in the people a patriotic and myopic sense of singular grievance against the 'others'. The Ukrainians see the Russians as unrepentant for the myriad crimes of the imperial Soviets, and the Russians see the Ukrainians as Nazi apologists and neo-fascists. Neither are wholly right or wrong in their respective assessments. The Russians are unapologetic and even pugnacious in remembering that terrible war and their terrible loses. So too are the Ukrainians, unapologetic and belligerent in their demands that their ancestors too were heroes fighting a just cause. I can easily see both people's perspectives and make sense of their arguments... but the problem is that their governments cynically use their people's deeply felt sympathies to bolster and consolidate their own respective power, by tweaking patriotic and nationalist basic human proclivities. And by insisting that we were/are the "good" guys, and they are the "bad' guys!

    That's what governments do.

    As you often point out, the Jewish people are not congenitally a uniquely cursed or blessed people. But their religious leaders might tell them so, in order to bolster the power and influence of those religious (or political) leaders. And Israeli politicians are not above doing what Hitler did, and scapegoating an entire race of people as the fount of all their problems in the world. It's what governments (and their media whores) do.

    So yea, the Americans do suffer under the delusion that their government is uniquely "good", because just like the Ukrainians and Russians and Israeli Jews and Syrians and every body else, they look inside their own hearts and see nothing but goodness. And so when they hear their governments tell them that these evil people have attacked us, because they're evil! - they tend to believe it because they know themselves to be good. And so this tragicomedy gets played like a broken record over the eons of time.

    We never learn to distrust all so-called authority, and decide for ourselves what's right and what's wrong. Instead we contract that stuff out to a higher authority. Religion and government or charismatic cult leaders. Any by doing so, we reap a bitter harvest.

    There's a temptation to blame the stupid, venal and self-absorbed Americans for the crimes of our government. And I too feel great frustration at their resistance to think for themselves. But this phenomena is not unique to only Americans. And I would point out that in all the recent presidential elections, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate, (only to be betrayed).

    So I see the folly of the koolaid drinkers to be a human phenomena, and not a uniquely American phenomena. In the last century the Russians, the Germans, the Japanese, the Brits, the Italians, the Spanish, the French, the Israelis, the Saudis, and so many other peoples were similarly marching off to slaughter 'others' who had wronged them somehow, as it was explained to them by their governments. I just hope and pray that this century don't look like the last one, when it's all said and done.

    Yes, it is useful to hold a mental picture of the US Government as the death cult in the service of Greater Israel and to contrast today’s Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    contrast today’s Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?
     
    the Jews who own and control our media in America liked the world wars, but they didn't like the Viet Nam war. It was (putatively) a war against communism, and Jews invented and like communism. So they used their bullhorn and showed images of bloody soldiers on stretchers and coffins draped with flags coming home on the nightly news every night in America's living rooms during the Vietnam war. How many images of the Iraq war have Americans seen on network or even cable TV? Almost none.

    The one video that's been seen (by a tiny few) has resulted in the man who leaked it getting a 35 year prison term.

    There is an iron dome over what Americans are privy to. If the Jews showed a tiny fraction of the wars today that they showed on the nightly news in the sixties, these wars would have ended long ago. And that's the point. That's why after Abu Gharib, the word went out, no pictures or videos unless you want a court martial or worse.

    We are lied to 24/7. Lies about Kuwaiti incubators, lies about 911, lies about Saddam's WMD and ties to 911, lies about Assad's chemical attack, lies about Russia committing atrocities, it's all lies all day every day. And Americans just can't even begin to imagine just how bad it really is. If they did, they'd turn into this guy...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st05PWCypLQ
  67. @Randal
    Now that would be horizontal escalation, in spades.

    Horizontal escalation in more meanings than one.

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  68. […] is a depressingly insightful analysis of what the Neocons have gotten us into in […]

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  69. @Quartermaster
    Given Putin's ultimatum, nothing is going to be solved. Were Obama not so weak, he'd never make such a statement. Even so, those conditions will never be fulfilled, and he knows it. Putin doesn't want a solution. He's simply calling US weakness and daring them to do something about it.

    I don't think Putin is stupid and risking WW3 would be stupid on his part. WW3 is coming, but the conditions are such the US probably won't be involved except on the edges, and it will destroy Putin's attempted revival of the Soviet Union. Russia will be reduced to a rump.

    I have to laugh at Saker's fantasies abut an Anglo-Zionist empire. It exists only in his fertile imagination. Anyone seriously thinking Europe is some sort of US toady isn't playing with a full deck.

    If Putin wishes to save his country, he'll pull in his horns and get his troops out of Syria, Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova. He doesn't have the economic strength to support such imperial adventurism. We'll see over the next year if Putin has any sort of brain or not. If not, he'll stay the course he is on.

    Congratulation on your promotion to GS-15. I’m glad you’re here, because we don’t get enough of the party line from the government’s acknowledged spokesmen.

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  70. Check out how USAF has painted one of its F18s stationed at Incirlik in the Russian Airforce colors. This is ostensibly for training purposes, to get its pilots used to the enemy’s (Russian) colors. However, it just happens that Kerry the Clown was asking the White Helmets for the videos of the Russian Airforce attacks on hospitals and civilian buildings.

    An F18 in the Russian Airforce colors, together with the well trained out USAF attacks on hospitals in Afghanistan and elsewhere, perfect for a nice photo-op false-flag in Aleppo.

    The image of F18 in the Russian war colors originated from Liveleaks.

    More info on Moon of Alabama: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/is-the-us-preparing-a-false-flag-bombing-in-syria.html

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  71. @Randal

    China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”. As another commenter mentioned, Iran could also quickly ramp up the number of ground forces supporting the Syrian government.
     
    China has no military infrastructure, doctrine or experience for that kind of massive long distance military deployment, and would struggle to supply and protect any significant deployment to Syria. This will likely be true for a number of years yet, perhaps decades (depending upon China's strategic priorities and investments).

    It's just not going to happen. If China were to play any part it would be economically and/or diplomatically.

    As for Iran, such ground forces as Iran could or is likely to deploy across Iraq to Syria are unlikely to cause any problems there if US forces are directly engaged.

    I don't think either China's or Iran's potential military involvement is particularly relevant to the issue Saker is discussing here, of the cost/benefit calculation the US regime is currently weighing, over whether to gamble the lives of every human being on the planet to try to retrieve its disappearing regime change effort in Syria

    So this massive network of thousands of miles of rail that is connecting China with Central Asia all the way on to Germany: that couldn’t be used to move soldiers for an occupation?

    With European countries having laughable ground forces, and pathetic militaries generally, what is to stop China from moving its troops into Europe or into Syria if it so choose, even soon?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    Getting them to the Russian western border might in theory be possible under the cover of Russian air defences, though even just that would strain Chinese and Russian logistics. But getting them deep into Europe against NATO air interdiction would be costly and probably impossible on any sustained basis. Getting them to Syria would be pretty much impossible considering US naval and air dominance.

    And of course moving a big bunch of troops in is only the first step. Once they are there you've got to defend them and supply them, and command them effectively, if they are to be more than big fat useless targets. Modern armies don't live off the land like old style mercs.

    Numbers alone are not all that significant.

    As for useless European militaries, bear in kind that the European (meaning non-US) NATO countries alone (even without the elephant in the global room that is the US's colossal military spend) collectively spend three times as much annually on the military as Russia and still probably more than China. They might be useless for projecting force effectively in global terms, but they're going to inflict a lot of hurt on anyone trying to invade. Backed up by US forces and resupply, there's no force on Earth currently that could successfully invade and hold land in the heart of Europe, imo. The old massed Soviet armoured breakthrough and motorised forces that could have done it are long gone.
  72. @bluedog
    Of course we are trying to build an empire, for after all this was suppose to be OUR century and we would control the world and its resourcs"s which are put there for OUR purpose,as far as Europe is concerned they are OUR colonies and do and will continue to do as we dictate.

    Just a note about the probability of European countries and the USA remaining close friends and allies: with massive demographic and cultural changes in the USA (turning Mexican mestizo) and Europe (turning Muslim slowly but surely), it is foolish to expect that people on both sides of the Pond will feel loyalty, affection, and commonality with each other. Many of the white people in all the countries may feel that way, as they should, but few others will.

    Specifically, the growing Muslim electorate in France, Germany, the UK, Sweden, and Denmark will demand distance from, and eventually open hostility against, the USA. And they will get it unless nonmuslims there grow some balls.

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  73. @KA
    One wonders what they would to Iranians or Russian? One thing is sure NYT and Guradian or MSNBC will not disappoint Mr Hain .



    "In 2007, the senior British official responsible for the sanctions, Carne Ross, known as “Mr. Iraq”, told a parliamentary selection committee, “[The US and UK governments] effectively denied the entire population a means to live.” When I interviewed Carne Ross three years later, he was consumed by regret and contrition. “I feel ashamed,” he said. He is today a rare truth-teller of how governments deceive and how a compliant media plays a critical role in disseminating and maintaining the deception. “We would feed [journalists] factoids of sanitised intelligence,” he said, “or we’d freeze them out.” Last year, a not untypical headline in the Guardian read: “Faced with the horror of Isis we must act.” The “we must act” is a ghost risen, a warning of the suppression of informed memory, facts, lessons learned and regrets or shame. The author of the article was Peter Hain, the former Foreign Office minister responsible for Iraq under Blair. In 1998, when Denis Halliday revealed the extent of the suffering in Iraq for which the Blair Government shared primary responsibility, Hain abused him on the BBC’s Newsnight as an “apologist for Saddam”. In 2003, Hain backed Blair’s invasion of stricken Iraq on the basis of transparent lies. At a subsequent Labour Party conference, he dismissed the invasion as a “fringe issue”.

    Here was Hain demanding “air strikes, drones, military equipment and other support” for those “facing genocide” in Iraq and Syria. This will further “the imperative of a political solution”. The day Hain’s article appeared, Denis Halliday and Hans Von Sponeck happened to be in London and came to visit me. They were not shocked by the lethal hypocrisy of a politician, but lamented the enduring, almost inexplicable absence of intelligent diplomacy in negotiating a semblance of truce. Across the world, from Northern Ireland to Nepal, those regarding each other as terrorists and heretics have faced each other across a table. Why not now in Iraq and Syria? Instead, there is a vapid, almost sociopathic verboseness from Cameron, Hollande, Obama and their “coalition of the willing” as they prescribe more violence delivered from 30,000 feet on places where the blood of previous adventures never dried. They seem to relish their own violence and stupidityso much they want it to overthrow their one potentially valuable ally, the government in Syria."

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/17/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried/

    The repellent Hain became famous as an opponent of apartheid in South Africa.

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    • Replies: @KA
    That's not unexpected .
    He must have found out the opportunity of self advancement in speaking for the blacks when it was clear to him that the regime would collapse from sanction, He is not alone .Darfur and S Sudan advanced the carrer and Rwanda did as well for so many moral arriviste carpetbaggers . These are moral equivalent of low hanging fruit .
    Easy to satisfy the crying liberal charming psychopath who reside in think tanks and TV spin room or Bono and his ilk who would then sing a song along with other activist celebrities paving the way for creation of new Darfur and S Sudan on their journey to next stop. ( we celebrate Bono and trash Dixie Chick)
    Didn't Samantha Power become famous by denouncing something which then she perfected and unleashed on other countries?
  74. @Harry Huntington
    Perhaps the sensible Russian move is to involve Israel. Inform them that if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel. Suggest Russia has lost patience and Israel could face depressed trajectory nukes from Russian submarines. End of Regime. Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes. Suggest that Israel has a real come to Jesus moment about playing hardball.

    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea…why should Putin do that? My impression is he’s somewhat pro-Jewish and has tried to maintain reasonably good relations with Israel (not without at least some success…iirc Israel didn’t support a UN resolution condemning the annexation of Crimea back in 2014).
    Besides, doesn’t Israel have at least limited second strike capability via its nuclear armed submarines?

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    • Replies: @Randal

    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea…why should Putin do that?
     
    Well he either intended it as tongue in cheek or was being hopelessly optimistic (from his presumed point of view), but the rationale behind doing it would be that Russia would be recognising what is really important to many of those driving the US's absurdly aggressive foreign policies, especially in the ME.

    It's a fair point, as far as that goes.
    , @Rurik

    why should Putin do that?
     
    because the world is being driven to the brink of all out nuclear war

    and at some point, the charade has to end.

    anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh

    So what the commenter is suggesting is that Putin simply do the obvious. That time honored strategy of pointing the shotgun barrel at the rich guy who hired all the gunslingers and saying with with the cold, steely blue-eyed gaze of a man without even a hint of bluff, (so that he knows) - 'OK, they may kill me, but you get it first... in the guts'. And then Bibi stares down the double barrels, knowing that Putin isn't bluffing, and says 'Ok boys, let him go this time'.

    Because if you point the gun at the guy in charge, then he can (and will) order all his thugs to back off.

    It's just that simple.
    , @Kiza
    I do remember you from before, you are a s**t steerer with an attractive handle.

    Regarding the second strike capability, I am not an expert in submarine warfare, but I know that you are on the wrong path. Israeli nuclear missile submarines are German-made diesel-electrical, which means they cannot remain underwater for a long time, which means they are detectable by the advanced array of sensors that US and Russia have and China is building. Detectable means destroyable. Therefore, the Israeli nuclear missile submarines are a match for anything in the ME, possibly even for what Europe can field, but they would not be a match for the Russian capability.

    Finally, I did not consider the original proposition to be practical, but I thought just like Rurik that it had the merit of a new point of view. And it does not need to be done in a way of a direct threat. The best would be if a Russian nuclear target list, containing multiple Israeli targets, got accidentally leaked out. I never heard of a cowboy shooting the tail of a risen rattle-snake first instead of the head.
  75. @German_reader
    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea...why should Putin do that? My impression is he's somewhat pro-Jewish and has tried to maintain reasonably good relations with Israel (not without at least some success...iirc Israel didn't support a UN resolution condemning the annexation of Crimea back in 2014).
    Besides, doesn't Israel have at least limited second strike capability via its nuclear armed submarines?

    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea…why should Putin do that?

    Well he either intended it as tongue in cheek or was being hopelessly optimistic (from his presumed point of view), but the rationale behind doing it would be that Russia would be recognising what is really important to many of those driving the US’s absurdly aggressive foreign policies, especially in the ME.

    It’s a fair point, as far as that goes.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I doubt that Putin regards Israel as that central...I've seen nothing to indicate that he's obsessed with it like some commenters around here are (of course some of the more deranged Jewish-American neoconservatives would probably claim Putin's an antisemite but their views have only a tenuous connection to reality). My impression is he even regards relations with Israel - which after all has many citizens hailing from the former USSR - as potentially useful to Russia so I can't imagine a direct strike against Israel would be his preferred option. Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.
    Of course, all of this is speculation...hopefully it will stay that way.
  76. @5371
    The repellent Hain became famous as an opponent of apartheid in South Africa.

    That’s not unexpected .
    He must have found out the opportunity of self advancement in speaking for the blacks when it was clear to him that the regime would collapse from sanction, He is not alone .Darfur and S Sudan advanced the carrer and Rwanda did as well for so many moral arriviste carpetbaggers . These are moral equivalent of low hanging fruit .
    Easy to satisfy the crying liberal charming psychopath who reside in think tanks and TV spin room or Bono and his ilk who would then sing a song along with other activist celebrities paving the way for creation of new Darfur and S Sudan on their journey to next stop. ( we celebrate Bono and trash Dixie Chick)
    Didn’t Samantha Power become famous by denouncing something which then she perfected and unleashed on other countries?

    Read More
  77. @RadicalCenter
    So this massive network of thousands of miles of rail that is connecting China with Central Asia all the way on to Germany: that couldn't be used to move soldiers for an occupation?

    With European countries having laughable ground forces, and pathetic militaries generally, what is to stop China from moving its troops into Europe or into Syria if it so choose, even soon?

    Getting them to the Russian western border might in theory be possible under the cover of Russian air defences, though even just that would strain Chinese and Russian logistics. But getting them deep into Europe against NATO air interdiction would be costly and probably impossible on any sustained basis. Getting them to Syria would be pretty much impossible considering US naval and air dominance.

    And of course moving a big bunch of troops in is only the first step. Once they are there you’ve got to defend them and supply them, and command them effectively, if they are to be more than big fat useless targets. Modern armies don’t live off the land like old style mercs.

    Numbers alone are not all that significant.

    As for useless European militaries, bear in kind that the European (meaning non-US) NATO countries alone (even without the elephant in the global room that is the US’s colossal military spend) collectively spend three times as much annually on the military as Russia and still probably more than China. They might be useless for projecting force effectively in global terms, but they’re going to inflict a lot of hurt on anyone trying to invade. Backed up by US forces and resupply, there’s no force on Earth currently that could successfully invade and hold land in the heart of Europe, imo. The old massed Soviet armoured breakthrough and motorised forces that could have done it are long gone.

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  78. @Randal

    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea…why should Putin do that?
     
    Well he either intended it as tongue in cheek or was being hopelessly optimistic (from his presumed point of view), but the rationale behind doing it would be that Russia would be recognising what is really important to many of those driving the US's absurdly aggressive foreign policies, especially in the ME.

    It's a fair point, as far as that goes.

    I doubt that Putin regards Israel as that central…I’ve seen nothing to indicate that he’s obsessed with it like some commenters around here are (of course some of the more deranged Jewish-American neoconservatives would probably claim Putin’s an antisemite but their views have only a tenuous connection to reality). My impression is he even regards relations with Israel – which after all has many citizens hailing from the former USSR – as potentially useful to Russia so I can’t imagine a direct strike against Israel would be his preferred option. Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.
    Of course, all of this is speculation…hopefully it will stay that way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.
     
    an invasion of the Baltic states?

    my God man you're clueless

    there's nothing on this planet that would be more monumentally stupid for Putin to do than for him to prove all the neocons right that he's a new Hitler. And for what? To earn the well-deserved hatred of the entire world? To make enemies of the entire planet?!

    You're delusional if you think Putin has any designs or intentions of invading anyone. It is the Zio-West that is fomenting wars all over the place. It is the Zio-West that destabilized Ukraine with a coup and installed their quislings. The phone calls are even recorded and on the Internet!

    >>sigh<<

    I just don't understand how someone could have lingered around the Unz Review for this long as still be so utterly lost.
    , @Randal
    I don't think anybody would regard it as a serious option, despite the fact that the underlying rationale, in isolation, is clearly correct. Clearly Israel is hugely influential in US media and politics, especially foreign policy, and it's obvious that influence tends to encourage military aggression, especially in the ME. Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's simple observable fact.

    There are plenty of other factors involved that make it unrealistic, though.
  79. @Kiza
    Yes, it is useful to hold a mental picture of the US Government as the death cult in the service of Greater Israel and to contrast today's Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?

    contrast today’s Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?

    the Jews who own and control our media in America liked the world wars, but they didn’t like the Viet Nam war. It was (putatively) a war against communism, and Jews invented and like communism. So they used their bullhorn and showed images of bloody soldiers on stretchers and coffins draped with flags coming home on the nightly news every night in America’s living rooms during the Vietnam war. How many images of the Iraq war have Americans seen on network or even cable TV? Almost none.

    The one video that’s been seen (by a tiny few) has resulted in the man who leaked it getting a 35 year prison term.

    There is an iron dome over what Americans are privy to. If the Jews showed a tiny fraction of the wars today that they showed on the nightly news in the sixties, these wars would have ended long ago. And that’s the point. That’s why after Abu Gharib, the word went out, no pictures or videos unless you want a court martial or worse.

    We are lied to 24/7. Lies about Kuwaiti incubators, lies about 911, lies about Saddam’s WMD and ties to 911, lies about Assad’s chemical attack, lies about Russia committing atrocities, it’s all lies all day every day. And Americans just can’t even begin to imagine just how bad it really is. If they did, they’d turn into this guy…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    I was a teenager during the US War on Vietnam. I know that US MSM were always more "liberal" than "conservative" and that "liberal" is a code word for Jewish/Zionist, but I was not aware that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this. I intend to do a bit of reading to try and establish how much this was the case. Your point is credible, based on other things I know, but I want to know if this was the dominant factor in this totally opposite MSM attitude between a war neutral or disliked by the Zionists (as you say) and the contemporary US wars which are definitely for the benefit of the Zionists.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the "liberal" MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now. It is an apex of cynicism when you initiate wars to kill and ethnically cleanse the people who stand in the way of your territorial expansion and then you also hugely profit from it. It is patriotism which pays.

    The remainder of the US people have lost control over their own country and the best they know is to try emulate the Zionists and use the US Rent-an-Army to bomb their ethnic opponents as well. Peace can come to the World only when the US end up decentralised, which is the way the things are going.

    , @Stonehands
    Rurik, you can be a wealth of knowledge, but you lose all credibility if you think the nationalist Vietnam civil war was fought to save anyone from Jewish communism.
    It was the same old finance capitalists sowing chaos for profits, without any regard for something as archaic as "victory".
    Our "putative" leaders breached the moral threshold long ago.. and are drunk on the rarified atmosphere beyond good and evil.
  80. @German_reader
    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea...why should Putin do that? My impression is he's somewhat pro-Jewish and has tried to maintain reasonably good relations with Israel (not without at least some success...iirc Israel didn't support a UN resolution condemning the annexation of Crimea back in 2014).
    Besides, doesn't Israel have at least limited second strike capability via its nuclear armed submarines?

    why should Putin do that?

    because the world is being driven to the brink of all out nuclear war

    and at some point, the charade has to end.

    anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh

    So what the commenter is suggesting is that Putin simply do the obvious. That time honored strategy of pointing the shotgun barrel at the rich guy who hired all the gunslingers and saying with with the cold, steely blue-eyed gaze of a man without even a hint of bluff, (so that he knows) – ‘OK, they may kill me, but you get it first… in the guts’. And then Bibi stares down the double barrels, knowing that Putin isn’t bluffing, and says ‘Ok boys, let him go this time’.

    Because if you point the gun at the guy in charge, then he can (and will) order all his thugs to back off.

    It’s just that simple.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
    "anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh"

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don't see here?

    Isn't far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever. The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.
  81. “Russia is hopelessly outgunned by the US/NATO, at least in quantitative terms.”

    We had that same discussion in the ’80s with the “we can have swarms of F-5s for the cost of a couple squadrons of F-15s and F16s” debate. We went with the F-15s and F-16s because they were the air superiority fighter of their day, but we went exclusively with them because there was a lot more graft to be had in procuring a few of those systems than with having a bunch of the el-cheap F-5s to round out the inventory.

    Quantitatively, the Russians are a a fair match … Qualitatively remains to be seen. The US is relying heavily (critically) on the qualitative, not the Quantitative.

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  82. @German_reader
    I doubt that Putin regards Israel as that central...I've seen nothing to indicate that he's obsessed with it like some commenters around here are (of course some of the more deranged Jewish-American neoconservatives would probably claim Putin's an antisemite but their views have only a tenuous connection to reality). My impression is he even regards relations with Israel - which after all has many citizens hailing from the former USSR - as potentially useful to Russia so I can't imagine a direct strike against Israel would be his preferred option. Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.
    Of course, all of this is speculation...hopefully it will stay that way.

    Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.

    an invasion of the Baltic states?

    my God man you’re clueless

    there’s nothing on this planet that would be more monumentally stupid for Putin to do than for him to prove all the neocons right that he’s a new Hitler. And for what? To earn the well-deserved hatred of the entire world? To make enemies of the entire planet?!

    You’re delusional if you think Putin has any designs or intentions of invading anyone. It is the Zio-West that is fomenting wars all over the place. It is the Zio-West that destabilized Ukraine with a coup and installed their quislings. The phone calls are even recorded and on the Internet!

    >>sigh<<

    I just don't understand how someone could have lingered around the Unz Review for this long as still be so utterly lost.

    Read More
  83. @German_reader
    I doubt that Putin regards Israel as that central...I've seen nothing to indicate that he's obsessed with it like some commenters around here are (of course some of the more deranged Jewish-American neoconservatives would probably claim Putin's an antisemite but their views have only a tenuous connection to reality). My impression is he even regards relations with Israel - which after all has many citizens hailing from the former USSR - as potentially useful to Russia so I can't imagine a direct strike against Israel would be his preferred option. Something like an invasion of the Baltic states might make more sense because it might prove NATO to be impotent and sow dissension within the alliance.
    Of course, all of this is speculation...hopefully it will stay that way.

    I don’t think anybody would regard it as a serious option, despite the fact that the underlying rationale, in isolation, is clearly correct. Clearly Israel is hugely influential in US media and politics, especially foreign policy, and it’s obvious that influence tends to encourage military aggression, especially in the ME. Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s simple observable fact.

    There are plenty of other factors involved that make it unrealistic, though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    "Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s simple observable fact. "

    I agree though I don't think it's the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence (as shown by US/UK support for the Saudis' war in Yemen; and of course the Gulf monarchies are among the main supporters of the Islamists in Syria).
    , @Pat the Rat
    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist's hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren't like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist's lusting to destroy them.
  84. @Avery
    {someone blinked}

    Nope.
    It's a foil.

    The reptiles are publicly disavowing it so that when they do it, they will claim ignorance or a "mistake".

    They might force some hapless NATO 'partners' (expendables) to bomb and get shot down to spare the embarrassment of a USAF jet being shot down.

    But the reptiles will not give up that easy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Sure is.
    Evil genius.
    The Reptiles are are vile, but you have to give it to them: clever MOFERS.
  85. @Randal
    I don't think anybody would regard it as a serious option, despite the fact that the underlying rationale, in isolation, is clearly correct. Clearly Israel is hugely influential in US media and politics, especially foreign policy, and it's obvious that influence tends to encourage military aggression, especially in the ME. Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's simple observable fact.

    There are plenty of other factors involved that make it unrealistic, though.

    “Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s simple observable fact. ”

    I agree though I don’t think it’s the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence (as shown by US/UK support for the Saudis’ war in Yemen; and of course the Gulf monarchies are among the main supporters of the Islamists in Syria).

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Let's assume that you and your German co-ethnic buddies live in China and are running a huge enterprise to hijack that country's foreign policy for the benefit of Germany. You would start recruiting Chinese, contribute to Chinese politicians (in fact, almost half the money sent by corrupt oligarchs to Chinese politicians would be coming from you and your German buddies), then there might be a slow selection process, where you and your German buddies would be paying the most pro-German (therefore, on average, most spineless, less ethno-nationalistic, less self-respecting) politicians the most, and so slowly move the politics in that country in a pro-German direction, so that eventually China would be dominated by pro-German Chinese politicians.

    Knowing human nature, ceteris paribus, how would these hypothetical pro-German Chinese politicians compare to Chinese politicians before or without German influence? Would they, perchance, be a bit more corrupt (and therefore corruptible by other ethnic lobbies, too)? Almost by definition these pro-German Chinese politicians would have Chinese interests less at heart than your garden variety Chinese politicians.

    It's obvious that many Chinese businessmen would be complicit in this (especially if they had otherwise good business relations with you and your German co-ethnics), because spineless and corruptible politicians might be good for them. But, the crucial thing is, they alone wouldn't spend that much effort in it, because they would only be in it for the money, therefore they wouldn't be sacrificing significant chunks of their fortunes (the way an Adelson or a Haim Saban is willing to do) only to make the Chinese political class more corrupt and spineless. So the whole project would hang on your (and your German co-ethnic buddies') enthusiasm and fanatical ethnocentrism.

    So yes, probably Chinese politicians would be corrupted by other powers, too (for example the Dutch, or the Japanese, or the Russians, or whoever is willing to do so), as well as ethnically Chinese oligarchs, but it wouldn't mean that they were the root cause of the problem.

    (Having said that, of course it's silly to suggest that bombing Israel would free the world like the death of Sauron... Just as our hypothetical China wouldn't become magically free after Germany was destroyed by a nuclear strike, instead, it would be - on your and your German co-ethnic buddies' prodding - furiously working to retaliate. Obviously the Jewish lobby is not working from Israel, and in a lot of sense the Israeli politicians might also be at least partly beholden to the same Jewish oligarchs working from the US, though with the crucial difference that they are bred to be more or less ethno-nationalists, and in that sense probably less corruptible and spineless than other Western politicians. But knowing that Israel was in danger might concentrate the minds of the craziest warmongers in the US.)

    , @Randal

    I agree though I don’t think it’s the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence
     
    I agree entirely.

    You could certainly make the same suggestion about Saudi Arabia with similar force, except that it would be something rather less taboo in US sphere political discussion circles, and so less refreshing to read. (Not entirely untaboo - it would still fall foul of the anti-racism/"islamophobia" taboo, but in my experience those generally are less vigorously enforced than the anti-"anti-Semitism"/criticism-of-Israel taboo, at least in supposedly conservative media circles.)

    It's always refreshing to read a blunt assertion of a truth usually suppressed, even when (as in this case) it is put in the form of a kind of absurdist hyperbole.
  86. @German_reader
    "Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s simple observable fact. "

    I agree though I don't think it's the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence (as shown by US/UK support for the Saudis' war in Yemen; and of course the Gulf monarchies are among the main supporters of the Islamists in Syria).

    Let’s assume that you and your German co-ethnic buddies live in China and are running a huge enterprise to hijack that country’s foreign policy for the benefit of Germany. You would start recruiting Chinese, contribute to Chinese politicians (in fact, almost half the money sent by corrupt oligarchs to Chinese politicians would be coming from you and your German buddies), then there might be a slow selection process, where you and your German buddies would be paying the most pro-German (therefore, on average, most spineless, less ethno-nationalistic, less self-respecting) politicians the most, and so slowly move the politics in that country in a pro-German direction, so that eventually China would be dominated by pro-German Chinese politicians.

    Knowing human nature, ceteris paribus, how would these hypothetical pro-German Chinese politicians compare to Chinese politicians before or without German influence? Would they, perchance, be a bit more corrupt (and therefore corruptible by other ethnic lobbies, too)? Almost by definition these pro-German Chinese politicians would have Chinese interests less at heart than your garden variety Chinese politicians.

    It’s obvious that many Chinese businessmen would be complicit in this (especially if they had otherwise good business relations with you and your German co-ethnics), because spineless and corruptible politicians might be good for them. But, the crucial thing is, they alone wouldn’t spend that much effort in it, because they would only be in it for the money, therefore they wouldn’t be sacrificing significant chunks of their fortunes (the way an Adelson or a Haim Saban is willing to do) only to make the Chinese political class more corrupt and spineless. So the whole project would hang on your (and your German co-ethnic buddies’) enthusiasm and fanatical ethnocentrism.

    So yes, probably Chinese politicians would be corrupted by other powers, too (for example the Dutch, or the Japanese, or the Russians, or whoever is willing to do so), as well as ethnically Chinese oligarchs, but it wouldn’t mean that they were the root cause of the problem.

    (Having said that, of course it’s silly to suggest that bombing Israel would free the world like the death of Sauron… Just as our hypothetical China wouldn’t become magically free after Germany was destroyed by a nuclear strike, instead, it would be – on your and your German co-ethnic buddies’ prodding – furiously working to retaliate. Obviously the Jewish lobby is not working from Israel, and in a lot of sense the Israeli politicians might also be at least partly beholden to the same Jewish oligarchs working from the US, though with the crucial difference that they are bred to be more or less ethno-nationalists, and in that sense probably less corruptible and spineless than other Western politicians. But knowing that Israel was in danger might concentrate the minds of the craziest warmongers in the US.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    of course it’s silly to suggest that bombing Israel would free the world like the death of Sauron
     
    hey!

    are you contradicting me?!

    ;)

    yes, it's silly

    but just imagine if the ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Israel, and all the diaspora Zionists and assorted Jewish supremacists the world over knew that Israel was the target of Russian nukes at the first sign of a NATO strike against Russia, how reluctant that would make them to bomb Russia or her assets in Syria.

    What the world needs is a reverse Samson Option, so that if the Zionists try to foist another world war on the West (including Russia, as I consider her a part of the West) then they'd know what's in store for Israel.

    To free mankind - Putin would need to bomb the Fed and do surgical strikes in Zurich and Paris and London and NYC and DC and Sydney and Moscow and Berlin and everywhere else the minions were scurrying in the crevices

    Rather impractical to be sure. May your chains rest lightly
  87. @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...

    You’re doing the good work here, this is a fantastic site (even if I don’t agree on important issues with probably a majority of columnists/commentators here – well, they don’t agree with each other, but that’s nothing to worry about), and I think it has had a huge effect already.

    I’d really be happy if members of the American Regime came to their senses (I mean the oligarchs, not the spineless politicians), as I really don’t wish for a violent revolution. But they might be stupid enough to provoke their own most violent demise…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    You wrote: "...As I really don’t wish for a violent revolution."

    OMG, I dream sweet dreams about bloody Revolution! It's our only way out of this mess...there is no other way.

  88. @schmenz
    This is curious:

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/is-the-us-preparing-a-false-flag-bombing-in-syria.html#more

    Sure is.
    Evil genius.
    The Reptiles are are vile, but you have to give it to them: clever MOFERS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    Hmm...maybe I'm getting you mixed up wit someone else. I read another of your posts in another thread...you keep using the term "the Reptiles", what are you talking about? You're not one of those David "I-am-Jesus-H-Christ" Icke followers are you?
  89. @reiner Tor
    Let's assume that you and your German co-ethnic buddies live in China and are running a huge enterprise to hijack that country's foreign policy for the benefit of Germany. You would start recruiting Chinese, contribute to Chinese politicians (in fact, almost half the money sent by corrupt oligarchs to Chinese politicians would be coming from you and your German buddies), then there might be a slow selection process, where you and your German buddies would be paying the most pro-German (therefore, on average, most spineless, less ethno-nationalistic, less self-respecting) politicians the most, and so slowly move the politics in that country in a pro-German direction, so that eventually China would be dominated by pro-German Chinese politicians.

    Knowing human nature, ceteris paribus, how would these hypothetical pro-German Chinese politicians compare to Chinese politicians before or without German influence? Would they, perchance, be a bit more corrupt (and therefore corruptible by other ethnic lobbies, too)? Almost by definition these pro-German Chinese politicians would have Chinese interests less at heart than your garden variety Chinese politicians.

    It's obvious that many Chinese businessmen would be complicit in this (especially if they had otherwise good business relations with you and your German co-ethnics), because spineless and corruptible politicians might be good for them. But, the crucial thing is, they alone wouldn't spend that much effort in it, because they would only be in it for the money, therefore they wouldn't be sacrificing significant chunks of their fortunes (the way an Adelson or a Haim Saban is willing to do) only to make the Chinese political class more corrupt and spineless. So the whole project would hang on your (and your German co-ethnic buddies') enthusiasm and fanatical ethnocentrism.

    So yes, probably Chinese politicians would be corrupted by other powers, too (for example the Dutch, or the Japanese, or the Russians, or whoever is willing to do so), as well as ethnically Chinese oligarchs, but it wouldn't mean that they were the root cause of the problem.

    (Having said that, of course it's silly to suggest that bombing Israel would free the world like the death of Sauron... Just as our hypothetical China wouldn't become magically free after Germany was destroyed by a nuclear strike, instead, it would be - on your and your German co-ethnic buddies' prodding - furiously working to retaliate. Obviously the Jewish lobby is not working from Israel, and in a lot of sense the Israeli politicians might also be at least partly beholden to the same Jewish oligarchs working from the US, though with the crucial difference that they are bred to be more or less ethno-nationalists, and in that sense probably less corruptible and spineless than other Western politicians. But knowing that Israel was in danger might concentrate the minds of the craziest warmongers in the US.)

    of course it’s silly to suggest that bombing Israel would free the world like the death of Sauron

    hey!

    are you contradicting me?!

    ;)

    yes, it’s silly

    but just imagine if the ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Israel, and all the diaspora Zionists and assorted Jewish supremacists the world over knew that Israel was the target of Russian nukes at the first sign of a NATO strike against Russia, how reluctant that would make them to bomb Russia or her assets in Syria.

    What the world needs is a reverse Samson Option, so that if the Zionists try to foist another world war on the West (including Russia, as I consider her a part of the West) then they’d know what’s in store for Israel.

    To free mankind – Putin would need to bomb the Fed and do surgical strikes in Zurich and Paris and London and NYC and DC and Sydney and Moscow and Berlin and everywhere else the minions were scurrying in the crevices

    Rather impractical to be sure. May your chains rest lightly

    Read More
  90. @reiner Tor
    You're doing the good work here, this is a fantastic site (even if I don't agree on important issues with probably a majority of columnists/commentators here - well, they don't agree with each other, but that's nothing to worry about), and I think it has had a huge effect already.

    I'd really be happy if members of the American Regime came to their senses (I mean the oligarchs, not the spineless politicians), as I really don't wish for a violent revolution. But they might be stupid enough to provoke their own most violent demise...

    You wrote: “…As I really don’t wish for a violent revolution.”

    OMG, I dream sweet dreams about bloody Revolution! It’s our only way out of this mess…there is no other way.

    Read More
  91. @Avery
    Sure is.
    Evil genius.
    The Reptiles are are vile, but you have to give it to them: clever MOFERS.

    Hmm…maybe I’m getting you mixed up wit someone else. I read another of your posts in another thread…you keep using the term “the Reptiles”, what are you talking about? You’re not one of those David “I-am-Jesus-H-Christ” Icke followers are you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    I have no idea WhoTF 'David “I-am-Jesus-H-Christ” Icke' is.

    I use the term 'reptile' to denote a non-human: a cold-blooded creature.
    There was a TV series called 'V' a while back.
    The aliens appeared as humans, but were some kind of reptiles/lizards in reality.

    They came to Earth to enslave humans, but had to assume human form so humans would let their guard down. (Even before 'V', there was the classic "Body Snatchers" (the original B&W). )

    The 'V' were shape-shifters: every so often they'd shed the human form and you could see the scales of the lizards/reptiles that they were.

    I use the term 'reptiles' in reference to these cold-blooded things (aka Neocons), because they cannot possibly be human. They enjoy bloodbath of humans: it is not normal; it is sick. But if one is a reptile, then it is not abnormal to kill humans: it is in their nature.

    Of course I don't really mean they are aliens from space, but can't think of any other way to describe them: one can't be a normal human being who loves murdering people who have done them no wrong. One can't be a normal human being who enjoys death and destruction just for the sake of it.

    'one of those .... followers are you?'

    Nope: I follow no one, but my own mind.
  92. @German_reader
    "But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…"

    It's depressing, but I think you can be proud about what you've already achieved with this site...it's certainly appreciated by myself and many other readers.
    As for elites in the US and many European countries, I really do wonder how we ended up with people so obviously deluded and incompetent in charge. Something seems to have gone seriously wrong in the last 25 years.

    It’s actually the last 50 years German Reader.

    Our leaders have been corrupted by the sexual revolution, they are all now quite immoral.

    Read the stuff about Trump on Zerohedge, it is something we have known for quite a while, rich powerful men can have whatever they want, women throw themselves at the powerful and they feel no reason to restrain themselves.

    We are the shameless generation………….we feel no shame no matter the size of the indulgence or lie.

    Read the “Obscured American” a woman has a child without a father. Women without thought destroy their own unborn babies. The media blatantly lie and distort not in the service of truth but for politics. Children are molested, etc, etc.

    There is no end to the evil of this generation, and the only thing that is missing is voices raised in condemnation.

    This won’t end here, the moral decline of the west is leading to destruction. The leaders we now get are the worst of men and women, not the best.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Don't blame the bitches, blame the events of 22nd Nov 1963
  93. @Rurik

    contrast today’s Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?
     
    the Jews who own and control our media in America liked the world wars, but they didn't like the Viet Nam war. It was (putatively) a war against communism, and Jews invented and like communism. So they used their bullhorn and showed images of bloody soldiers on stretchers and coffins draped with flags coming home on the nightly news every night in America's living rooms during the Vietnam war. How many images of the Iraq war have Americans seen on network or even cable TV? Almost none.

    The one video that's been seen (by a tiny few) has resulted in the man who leaked it getting a 35 year prison term.

    There is an iron dome over what Americans are privy to. If the Jews showed a tiny fraction of the wars today that they showed on the nightly news in the sixties, these wars would have ended long ago. And that's the point. That's why after Abu Gharib, the word went out, no pictures or videos unless you want a court martial or worse.

    We are lied to 24/7. Lies about Kuwaiti incubators, lies about 911, lies about Saddam's WMD and ties to 911, lies about Assad's chemical attack, lies about Russia committing atrocities, it's all lies all day every day. And Americans just can't even begin to imagine just how bad it really is. If they did, they'd turn into this guy...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st05PWCypLQ

    I was a teenager during the US War on Vietnam. I know that US MSM were always more “liberal” than “conservative” and that “liberal” is a code word for Jewish/Zionist, but I was not aware that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this. I intend to do a bit of reading to try and establish how much this was the case. Your point is credible, based on other things I know, but I want to know if this was the dominant factor in this totally opposite MSM attitude between a war neutral or disliked by the Zionists (as you say) and the contemporary US wars which are definitely for the benefit of the Zionists.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the “liberal” MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now. It is an apex of cynicism when you initiate wars to kill and ethnically cleanse the people who stand in the way of your territorial expansion and then you also hugely profit from it. It is patriotism which pays.

    The remainder of the US people have lost control over their own country and the best they know is to try emulate the Zionists and use the US Rent-an-Army to bomb their ethnic opponents as well. Peace can come to the World only when the US end up decentralised, which is the way the things are going.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    that “liberal” is a code word for Jewish/Zionist
     
    not always I don't think Kiza. Unless you follow with 'media', as in liberal [Jewish] media.

    but I know lots of liberals who aren't Jews. They just take their marching order from Jews by way of NYT and NPR and other organs of Jewish supremacism. It works well because the liberals are too stupid to know they're even being led by the nose by white [Jewish] supremacists.

    War on Vietnam.... ... US MSM ... ... Jewish/Zionist, ... ... that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this
     
    Yes, Jewish all the way. Pro-commie.

    Look at how the Jewish NYT published the Pentagon Papers, and were very much anti-war at the time, but now today can't get enough wars for Israel.

    Remember Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin? Remember Alan Ginsburg and Ira Einhorn? If these guys were around today they'd be all for the wars on Iraq and Syria.

    Think David Horowitz. In the sixties he was an anti-Vietnam war radical. And now today that the US is bombing Muslim countries inconvenient to Israel into smoking rubble, he couldn't be more thrilled about the wars.

    Or consider the entire neocon movement. They started out as liberals and Trotskyists, but then when it came to wars in the Middle East, then >>poof<<, suddenly they realized they were "conservatives!" and war mongers on acid.

    but also it's important not to paint Jews with too broad a brush. Seymour Hersh was against the Vietnam war and he's been against all the contrived wars for fun and profit since. One of my personal heroes, Carl Sagan was also against the Vietnam war and remained very much anti-war his entire life. Saying correctly that "War is murder writ large".

    But there can be no doubt that Jews for the most part were virulently against the Vietnam war, whereas today as a group, seem perfectly sanguine over the wars today in the Middle East (to benefit Israel). Indeed, as Donald Trump calls for an "America first" movement, the Jews of the world seem almost apoplectic at that expression. Calling him an 'anti-Semite' for daring to put any nation above Israel.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the “liberal” MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now.
     
    that Jews have owed our media since the beginning of the 20th century is evidenced by the fact that Lord Balfour promised them Palestine if they (the Jews) would bring the US into WWI on behalf of England. Their ownership and influence of the newspapers was that great, that they could simply change the opinions of America vis-a-vis war on a whim.

    The Jews don't own the MIC outright like they own the MSM. That those two mega-power's interests often dovetail (Eternal War for Israel) - is the doom of the planet.
  94. @Randal
    I don't think anybody would regard it as a serious option, despite the fact that the underlying rationale, in isolation, is clearly correct. Clearly Israel is hugely influential in US media and politics, especially foreign policy, and it's obvious that influence tends to encourage military aggression, especially in the ME. Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's simple observable fact.

    There are plenty of other factors involved that make it unrealistic, though.

    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist’s hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren’t like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist’s lusting to destroy them.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.
     
    Yes, I agree that they certainly are, here. But that's merely a small measure of balance against the ruthless suppression of any references to excess jewish or Israeli/Zionist "influence" in the wider mainstream media and politics of the US sphere. Careers have been destroyed merely for referring to this basic fact of US reality, and senior US politicians from past presidents to Pat Buchanan have referred to it openly (mostly before it became career suicide in politics to do so).

    But it's not a matter of some overarching "jewish conspiracy", at least as far as I'm concerned. The Israel lobby is just a bunch of very powerful people whose interests in influencing US foreign policy (in particular) generally coincide, and are dominated by issues other than US interests. Notoriously, of course, many of them are not jewish but rather various flavours of fringe Christians, though imo it's as hard for jews in general to wholly escape a basic nationalist loyalty to the jewish state as it is for any of us to avoid loyalty to our own nation state, when push comes to shove.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!
    ....
    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist’s lusting to destroy them.
     
    That's a good question, but the fact that Israel wants to see the Syrian government overthrown and is prepared to see the islamists and jihadists used to achieve that is not, I think, open to honest dispute.

    It was entirely understandable that Israel did not want to be publicly seen as backing the rebels. But we know that at the key point in 2013 when the Obama regime (honestly or not) was seeking US political approval for strikes on Syrian government forces that would certainly have achieved the same as they had in Libya in overthrowing the government and opening the country up to jihadists, the Israeli Likudniks' main lobbying group in the US went "all out" to try to get backing for those strikes.

    AIPAC to go all-out on Syria

    More recently senior Israeli figures have been more open with their preference for even the worst of the sunni jihadists over the Syrian government:

    Israeli Intel Chief: We Don’t Want ISIS Defeated in Syria

    So in reality, the question is not: "does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?", but rather: "why does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?". That's a complex question of strategic motivation, and clearly we don't have access to all the information the Israeli government and military have used to reach that conclusion. Here's my broad opinion as to the answer fwiw.

    Senior Israelis are over-focused on their longstanding enemies Hezbollah and Iran, for historical and emotive reasons, to the extent that it warps their reasoning. Their priority is breaking the link between these two, and they regard a sunni islamist victory in Syria, with the consequent likely bloody chaos throughout Syria, and with all the risks it clearly entails for the region, as being a price worth paying to achieve that.

    Presumably their thinking is that Golan is not vulnerable to attack by jihadist truck bombers anyway, and they can cope with islamist terrorists having free rein in Syria because it means they will have free rein to drone/air strike at will there, and it will guarantee US backing for Israeli military actions there in perpetuity. Meanwhile, they will look to settle with their bitter rival Hezbollah once its resupply routes through Syria have been broken. The destruction of Syria and pegging back of Hezbollah will be major blows against their main regional rival Iran.

    I don't say I agree with this strategic thinking (as I noted, I think Israel's elites, rather like the US's elites, are not entirely rational on the topic of Iran and Hezbollah), but it's the best I can come up with to explain what is a seemingly obviously counterproductive policy.
    , @Laguerre

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!
     
    Don't be silly. You must be a hasbarist. Netanyahu has been following this policy since the beginning. Why would he be supporting and arming Jabhat al-Nusra on the Golan, if he did not approve of them?
    , @reiner Tor

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less.
     
    Well, here's one opinion, from the mouth of ex-ambassador Oren. Israel has consistently bombed Assad forces but no other forces in Syria. They have given hospital treatment to "freedom fighters".

    We also know that they helped Hamas (as opposition to Arafat) way back, and actually when Hamas won in Gaza, it was in part because Fatah didn't receive much help from Israel, and Israel mostly blocked help from the West Bank to arrive in Gaza. I think for Israel it's not very bad to have cannibals running their neighbors: nobody expects Israel to make peace with Hamas (though, having said that, some leftist lunatics still do...), or with ISIS. On the other hand, these cannibals are incapable of building nukes even with North Korean help, so they will be less of an actual threat, but more of nuisance (which is good since helps glue Israel's Jewish population together). I'm not sure I agree with that train of thought, but it's not totally irrational.
    , @schmenz
    "Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!"

    Hello Pat:

    Actually, this is nothing new and has historical precedents. When Isabella was trying to reclaim Spanish lands stolen and ransacked by the Muslims back in the 15th century the local Jewish population was helping them and working treasonously against the Crown.

    There is nothing new under the sun.

    , @Ben_C

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist’s hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

     

    I don't think so-called "Israel" and "Jews" are synonymous; but let's just put that issue and these semantics aside for the moment...as it seems beside the point and just a distraction. Based on your comments, I assume this would mean all so-called "Israeli" citizens are "Jews"...but, again, getting into this discussion seems somewhat unrelated and just a distraction to main "issue(s)" at hand here.

    The answer to your original "question" seems obvious to me. In response, let me ask you this: how many bombs have so-called "ISIS" and/or so-called "al-Qaeda" detonated in so-called "Israel" to date?

    Additionally, which groups exactly are operating on the Israeli/Syria border now? Which group(s) of so-called "moderate" cannibals are currently in control and responsible for that "peaceful" boarder at present? Which boarder crossings?

    Names???

    Just curious...

  95. @Rurik

    why should Putin do that?
     
    because the world is being driven to the brink of all out nuclear war

    and at some point, the charade has to end.

    anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh

    So what the commenter is suggesting is that Putin simply do the obvious. That time honored strategy of pointing the shotgun barrel at the rich guy who hired all the gunslingers and saying with with the cold, steely blue-eyed gaze of a man without even a hint of bluff, (so that he knows) - 'OK, they may kill me, but you get it first... in the guts'. And then Bibi stares down the double barrels, knowing that Putin isn't bluffing, and says 'Ok boys, let him go this time'.

    Because if you point the gun at the guy in charge, then he can (and will) order all his thugs to back off.

    It's just that simple.

    “anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh”

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?

    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever. The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Jews in the US are mostly non-religious (more so than other whites), but non-Christian religious people (for example Muslims) never bothered most leftists who are totally anti-religion only when it comes to Christianity. But yes, there are some Jew haters on the left, the fewer and farther between than you seem to imagine.

    Obama has ducked out of confrontation in Syria a few years ago, and is likely to do so again. I hope. But now with Hillary likely winning the elections... God save us all.

    Neocons are mostly (far from exclusively) Jewish crazies, but the most scary thing is not the Jewish part, but the crazy part. If they were simply openly Jewish supremacists, you could talk sense to them. But they are only implicitly doing things they think (or they bellyfeel) are "good for the Jews", and they may actually be quite incorrect about that. You can't really reason with them. Even less so since they have among their ranks a large number of crazy gentiles, too. Crazy people in power are dangerous. How can you reason with someone who thinks it's a good idea to introduce transgender and female soldiers to the Navy Seals? I mean, they are so crazy they are destroying their own military...

    I wrote I hoped the oligarchs came to their senses because I think this level of craziness is actually bad for them, too. I cannot imagine it'll turn out OK for them.
    , @Rurik

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?
     
    they've said as much

    they've said they'd prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?


    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!
     
    no

    Obama is a tool. He's been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel's behalf. So if you're looking for your Rapture, Obama's just the ticket. (ironic isn't it?)


    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.
     
    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they're willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel's behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza's face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to 'the Jews'.


    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.
     
    it isn't religion that they hate. It's white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they'd hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it's the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.
     
    you're out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it's all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.
     
    don't you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world's Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying "Merry Christmas"?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ's eternal fate?

    check it out. There's a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world's religious Jews, they haven't quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    Oded Yinon.
  96. @German_reader
    That sounds like a pretty stupid idea...why should Putin do that? My impression is he's somewhat pro-Jewish and has tried to maintain reasonably good relations with Israel (not without at least some success...iirc Israel didn't support a UN resolution condemning the annexation of Crimea back in 2014).
    Besides, doesn't Israel have at least limited second strike capability via its nuclear armed submarines?

    I do remember you from before, you are a s**t steerer with an attractive handle.

    Regarding the second strike capability, I am not an expert in submarine warfare, but I know that you are on the wrong path. Israeli nuclear missile submarines are German-made diesel-electrical, which means they cannot remain underwater for a long time, which means they are detectable by the advanced array of sensors that US and Russia have and China is building. Detectable means destroyable. Therefore, the Israeli nuclear missile submarines are a match for anything in the ME, possibly even for what Europe can field, but they would not be a match for the Russian capability.

    Finally, I did not consider the original proposition to be practical, but I thought just like Rurik that it had the merit of a new point of view. And it does not need to be done in a way of a direct threat. The best would be if a Russian nuclear target list, containing multiple Israeli targets, got accidentally leaked out. I never heard of a cowboy shooting the tail of a risen rattle-snake first instead of the head.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Israeli nuclear missile submarines are German-made diesel-electrical, which means they cannot remain underwater for a long time, which means they are detectable
     
    Diesel-electricals are actually less noisy than nuclear subs. So they might stay underwater for shorter periods of time, but while they are underwater, they are more difficult to detect.
  97. @Anonymous Smith
    Hmm...maybe I'm getting you mixed up wit someone else. I read another of your posts in another thread...you keep using the term "the Reptiles", what are you talking about? You're not one of those David "I-am-Jesus-H-Christ" Icke followers are you?

    I have no idea WhoTF ‘David “I-am-Jesus-H-Christ” Icke’ is.

    I use the term ‘reptile’ to denote a non-human: a cold-blooded creature.
    There was a TV series called ‘V’ a while back.
    The aliens appeared as humans, but were some kind of reptiles/lizards in reality.

    They came to Earth to enslave humans, but had to assume human form so humans would let their guard down. (Even before ‘V’, there was the classic “Body Snatchers” (the original B&W). )

    The ‘V’ were shape-shifters: every so often they’d shed the human form and you could see the scales of the lizards/reptiles that they were.

    I use the term ‘reptiles’ in reference to these cold-blooded things (aka Neocons), because they cannot possibly be human. They enjoy bloodbath of humans: it is not normal; it is sick. But if one is a reptile, then it is not abnormal to kill humans: it is in their nature.

    Of course I don’t really mean they are aliens from space, but can’t think of any other way to describe them: one can’t be a normal human being who loves murdering people who have done them no wrong. One can’t be a normal human being who enjoys death and destruction just for the sake of it.

    ‘one of those …. followers are you?’

    Nope: I follow no one, but my own mind.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    There are people, followers of David Icke, and others, who actually believe that many of our leaders are shapeshifting reptiles...I kid you not.

    Given this new information, you might want to rethink your use of the term, lest someone label you a crackpot.
  98. @Avery
    I have no idea WhoTF 'David “I-am-Jesus-H-Christ” Icke' is.

    I use the term 'reptile' to denote a non-human: a cold-blooded creature.
    There was a TV series called 'V' a while back.
    The aliens appeared as humans, but were some kind of reptiles/lizards in reality.

    They came to Earth to enslave humans, but had to assume human form so humans would let their guard down. (Even before 'V', there was the classic "Body Snatchers" (the original B&W). )

    The 'V' were shape-shifters: every so often they'd shed the human form and you could see the scales of the lizards/reptiles that they were.

    I use the term 'reptiles' in reference to these cold-blooded things (aka Neocons), because they cannot possibly be human. They enjoy bloodbath of humans: it is not normal; it is sick. But if one is a reptile, then it is not abnormal to kill humans: it is in their nature.

    Of course I don't really mean they are aliens from space, but can't think of any other way to describe them: one can't be a normal human being who loves murdering people who have done them no wrong. One can't be a normal human being who enjoys death and destruction just for the sake of it.

    'one of those .... followers are you?'

    Nope: I follow no one, but my own mind.

    There are people, followers of David Icke, and others, who actually believe that many of our leaders are shapeshifting reptiles…I kid you not.

    Given this new information, you might want to rethink your use of the term, lest someone label you a crackpot.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    Thanks for the info.
    If I think of a better word to describes these things, I will switch.
    But reptile will do for now, regardless of what someone thinks of me.
    I have to admit though, that these things are far worse than reptiles.
    Reptiles kill only to defend themselves or for food.
    These things murder simply for the pleasure of murdering.
  99. @Pat the Rat
    It's actually the last 50 years German Reader.

    Our leaders have been corrupted by the sexual revolution, they are all now quite immoral.

    Read the stuff about Trump on Zerohedge, it is something we have known for quite a while, rich powerful men can have whatever they want, women throw themselves at the powerful and they feel no reason to restrain themselves.

    We are the shameless generation.............we feel no shame no matter the size of the indulgence or lie.

    Read the "Obscured American" a woman has a child without a father. Women without thought destroy their own unborn babies. The media blatantly lie and distort not in the service of truth but for politics. Children are molested, etc, etc.

    There is no end to the evil of this generation, and the only thing that is missing is voices raised in condemnation.

    This won't end here, the moral decline of the west is leading to destruction. The leaders we now get are the worst of men and women, not the best.

    Don’t blame the bitches, blame the events of 22nd Nov 1963

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    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
    You mean the assassination of JFK?

    I looked up the date, Aldous Huxley and CS Lewis died on the same day.

    Interesting article about it here exploring various aspects of the three men:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/03/three-great-men-died-that-day-jfk-c-s-lewis-and-aldous-huxley.html

    Not sure how JFK's assassination bears on my comments?
  100. @Ron Unz

    I’m worried too, and angry at the arrogant stupidity of America’s establishment (and a non-trivial part of the American public as well). It would be beyond bizarre if we had managed to avoid war for half a century while the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe and now stumble into it because America (and Britain and France) just won’t stop supporting Sunni Islamists in Syria.
     
    Yes, that's my own opinion as well. The endlessly irrational behavior of the ruling elites of the American Regime really makes me quite nervous at these times.

    Personally, I'd really like to see them all physically liquidated for their doubtful decision-making, preferably by being fed feet-first into meat-grinders, with their misfortune live-streamed throughout the world in order to discourage other ruling elites from engaging in similar misbehavior.

    But sadly enough, all I'm able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet...

    Ron, didn’t know you are a drinking man. Glad to have you back.

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  101. @Rurik

    contrast today’s Americans with the War on Vietnam generation. Where are the hippies when we need them?
     
    the Jews who own and control our media in America liked the world wars, but they didn't like the Viet Nam war. It was (putatively) a war against communism, and Jews invented and like communism. So they used their bullhorn and showed images of bloody soldiers on stretchers and coffins draped with flags coming home on the nightly news every night in America's living rooms during the Vietnam war. How many images of the Iraq war have Americans seen on network or even cable TV? Almost none.

    The one video that's been seen (by a tiny few) has resulted in the man who leaked it getting a 35 year prison term.

    There is an iron dome over what Americans are privy to. If the Jews showed a tiny fraction of the wars today that they showed on the nightly news in the sixties, these wars would have ended long ago. And that's the point. That's why after Abu Gharib, the word went out, no pictures or videos unless you want a court martial or worse.

    We are lied to 24/7. Lies about Kuwaiti incubators, lies about 911, lies about Saddam's WMD and ties to 911, lies about Assad's chemical attack, lies about Russia committing atrocities, it's all lies all day every day. And Americans just can't even begin to imagine just how bad it really is. If they did, they'd turn into this guy...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st05PWCypLQ

    Rurik, you can be a wealth of knowledge, but you lose all credibility if you think the nationalist Vietnam civil war was fought to save anyone from Jewish communism.
    It was the same old finance capitalists sowing chaos for profits, without any regard for something as archaic as “victory”.
    Our “putative” leaders breached the moral threshold long ago.. and are drunk on the rarified atmosphere beyond good and evil.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    but you lose all credibility if you think the nationalist Vietnam civil war was fought to save anyone from Jewish communism.
     
    I know that most, if not all the putative "justifications" for the war on Viet Nam were lies, sure.

    but most, if not all the men who enlisted- did so because they believed those lies.

    Sort of the way Pat Tillman believed the lies about 911

    So most of the men who were fighting it, did actually believe that they were fighting to protect America's freedoms from the commies.

    But just as with all of Americas myriad wars, and especially the ones going on today; it was all lies and greed and treachery and rich war pigs getting richer while poor men got ripped apart.

    "If any question why we died, Tell them, because our fathers lied"

    ~ Rudyard Kipling
  102. @Anonymous Smith
    There are people, followers of David Icke, and others, who actually believe that many of our leaders are shapeshifting reptiles...I kid you not.

    Given this new information, you might want to rethink your use of the term, lest someone label you a crackpot.

    Thanks for the info.
    If I think of a better word to describes these things, I will switch.
    But reptile will do for now, regardless of what someone thinks of me.
    I have to admit though, that these things are far worse than reptiles.
    Reptiles kill only to defend themselves or for food.
    These things murder simply for the pleasure of murdering.

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  103. @German_reader
    "Many of the individuals most involved in pushing military aggression are hugely committed to Israel, if not outright dual loyalty. This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s simple observable fact. "

    I agree though I don't think it's the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence (as shown by US/UK support for the Saudis' war in Yemen; and of course the Gulf monarchies are among the main supporters of the Islamists in Syria).

    I agree though I don’t think it’s the only relevant cause for how messed up Western policy in that region is; clearly Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states also have a pernicious influence

    I agree entirely.

    You could certainly make the same suggestion about Saudi Arabia with similar force, except that it would be something rather less taboo in US sphere political discussion circles, and so less refreshing to read. (Not entirely untaboo – it would still fall foul of the anti-racism/”islamophobia” taboo, but in my experience those generally are less vigorously enforced than the anti-”anti-Semitism”/criticism-of-Israel taboo, at least in supposedly conservative media circles.)

    It’s always refreshing to read a blunt assertion of a truth usually suppressed, even when (as in this case) it is put in the form of a kind of absurdist hyperbole.

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  104. @Pat the Rat
    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist's hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren't like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist's lusting to destroy them.

    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Yes, I agree that they certainly are, here. But that’s merely a small measure of balance against the ruthless suppression of any references to excess jewish or Israeli/Zionist “influence” in the wider mainstream media and politics of the US sphere. Careers have been destroyed merely for referring to this basic fact of US reality, and senior US politicians from past presidents to Pat Buchanan have referred to it openly (mostly before it became career suicide in politics to do so).

    But it’s not a matter of some overarching “jewish conspiracy”, at least as far as I’m concerned. The Israel lobby is just a bunch of very powerful people whose interests in influencing US foreign policy (in particular) generally coincide, and are dominated by issues other than US interests. Notoriously, of course, many of them are not jewish but rather various flavours of fringe Christians, though imo it’s as hard for jews in general to wholly escape a basic nationalist loyalty to the jewish state as it is for any of us to avoid loyalty to our own nation state, when push comes to shove.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!
    ….
    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist’s lusting to destroy them.

    That’s a good question, but the fact that Israel wants to see the Syrian government overthrown and is prepared to see the islamists and jihadists used to achieve that is not, I think, open to honest dispute.

    It was entirely understandable that Israel did not want to be publicly seen as backing the rebels. But we know that at the key point in 2013 when the Obama regime (honestly or not) was seeking US political approval for strikes on Syrian government forces that would certainly have achieved the same as they had in Libya in overthrowing the government and opening the country up to jihadists, the Israeli Likudniks’ main lobbying group in the US went “all out” to try to get backing for those strikes.

    AIPAC to go all-out on Syria

    More recently senior Israeli figures have been more open with their preference for even the worst of the sunni jihadists over the Syrian government:

    Israeli Intel Chief: We Don’t Want ISIS Defeated in Syria

    So in reality, the question is not: “does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?”, but rather: “why does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?”. That’s a complex question of strategic motivation, and clearly we don’t have access to all the information the Israeli government and military have used to reach that conclusion. Here’s my broad opinion as to the answer fwiw.

    Senior Israelis are over-focused on their longstanding enemies Hezbollah and Iran, for historical and emotive reasons, to the extent that it warps their reasoning. Their priority is breaking the link between these two, and they regard a sunni islamist victory in Syria, with the consequent likely bloody chaos throughout Syria, and with all the risks it clearly entails for the region, as being a price worth paying to achieve that.

    Presumably their thinking is that Golan is not vulnerable to attack by jihadist truck bombers anyway, and they can cope with islamist terrorists having free rein in Syria because it means they will have free rein to drone/air strike at will there, and it will guarantee US backing for Israeli military actions there in perpetuity. Meanwhile, they will look to settle with their bitter rival Hezbollah once its resupply routes through Syria have been broken. The destruction of Syria and pegging back of Hezbollah will be major blows against their main regional rival Iran.

    I don’t say I agree with this strategic thinking (as I noted, I think Israel’s elites, rather like the US’s elites, are not entirely rational on the topic of Iran and Hezbollah), but it’s the best I can come up with to explain what is a seemingly obviously counterproductive policy.

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    • Replies: @tjm
    "Yes, I agree that they certainly are, here. But that’s merely a small measure of balance against the ruthless suppression of any references to excess jewish or Israeli/Zionist “influence” in the wider mainstream media and politics of the US sphere. Careers have been destroyed merely for referring to this basic fact of US reality, and senior US politicians from past presidents to Pat Buchanan have referred to it openly (mostly before it became career suicide in politics to do so)."

    Great comment, and right on the money. When you look at the US government actions and they apply to US interests, they would seem totally misdirected and counterproductive, but if you replace US interests, with Israeli, suddenly everything becomes crystal clear and precisely aligned.
  105. @Harry Huntington
    Perhaps the sensible Russian move is to involve Israel. Inform them that if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel. Suggest Russia has lost patience and Israel could face depressed trajectory nukes from Russian submarines. End of Regime. Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes. Suggest that Israel has a real come to Jesus moment about playing hardball.

    …if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel.

    I may have heard one better the other night in a pub discussion.

    Should the US unleash a swarm of Tomahawks from the mid-Med, or wherever, Russian EW specialists should focus on re-targetting them mid-flight… to Tel Aviv. A few to Riyadh would drive the message home.

    Imagine the pants wetting, spittle spewing, hair-on-fire hysteria in Washington… priceless.
    Too bad that the Kremlin seems to lack a sense of humour…

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  106. @NoseytheDuke
    Don't blame the bitches, blame the events of 22nd Nov 1963

    You mean the assassination of JFK?

    I looked up the date, Aldous Huxley and CS Lewis died on the same day.

    Interesting article about it here exploring various aspects of the three men:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/03/three-great-men-died-that-day-jfk-c-s-lewis-and-aldous-huxley.html

    Not sure how JFK’s assassination bears on my comments?

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    It is true there were problems prior but the coup initiated, expanded and expedited the decline. According to Strauss and Howe in The Fourth Turning it was one of the momentous pivots of our saeculum.

    https://www.saeculumresearch.com/knowledge-center/generations-and-turnings/turnings-introduction

  107. @Pat the Rat
    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist's hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren't like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist's lusting to destroy them.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!

    Don’t be silly. You must be a hasbarist. Netanyahu has been following this policy since the beginning. Why would he be supporting and arming Jabhat al-Nusra on the Golan, if he did not approve of them?

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  108. @Pat the Rat
    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist's hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren't like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist's lusting to destroy them.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less.

    Well, here’s one opinion, from the mouth of ex-ambassador Oren. Israel has consistently bombed Assad forces but no other forces in Syria. They have given hospital treatment to “freedom fighters”.

    We also know that they helped Hamas (as opposition to Arafat) way back, and actually when Hamas won in Gaza, it was in part because Fatah didn’t receive much help from Israel, and Israel mostly blocked help from the West Bank to arrive in Gaza. I think for Israel it’s not very bad to have cannibals running their neighbors: nobody expects Israel to make peace with Hamas (though, having said that, some leftist lunatics still do…), or with ISIS. On the other hand, these cannibals are incapable of building nukes even with North Korean help, so they will be less of an actual threat, but more of nuisance (which is good since helps glue Israel’s Jewish population together). I’m not sure I agree with that train of thought, but it’s not totally irrational.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    reiner Tor -- are there really "cannibals" and "head choppers" among ISIS?

    How can we believe anything, at all, when we learn that the Pentagon Using Private Contractors To Create Anti-ISIS Themed Fake News A Department of Defense official confirmed the digital warfare tactics and that a British PR firm had been paid $540 million by the US military to produce infomercials and fake news in Iraq.

    Israel frequently boasts that it is the most sophisticated of users of social media. How did ISIS go from cave-dweller to masters of social media?
    Arabs are tagged as the most backward and chronically disorganized of people. How did they go from camel-herders to drivers of Toyota pickups, in so short a time?

    What's a fella to believe?
    , @Anonymous
    "On the other hand, these cannibals ...

    So there have been reports of some $cum eating a man's heart. How much of it is true and how much is part of the west's PR campaign, who knows.

    Now everyone in the ME is a cannibal?

    It is wondrous how the likes of you will change the narrative to somehow depict all Arabs/Muslims as total *beep* evil, even when there is overwhelming evidence that it is the Zio-West which is the evilest of them all.

    Shame on you people.
  109. @Pat the Rat
    "anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh"

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don't see here?

    Isn't far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever. The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.

    Jews in the US are mostly non-religious (more so than other whites), but non-Christian religious people (for example Muslims) never bothered most leftists who are totally anti-religion only when it comes to Christianity. But yes, there are some Jew haters on the left, the fewer and farther between than you seem to imagine.

    Obama has ducked out of confrontation in Syria a few years ago, and is likely to do so again. I hope. But now with Hillary likely winning the elections… God save us all.

    Neocons are mostly (far from exclusively) Jewish crazies, but the most scary thing is not the Jewish part, but the crazy part. If they were simply openly Jewish supremacists, you could talk sense to them. But they are only implicitly doing things they think (or they bellyfeel) are “good for the Jews”, and they may actually be quite incorrect about that. You can’t really reason with them. Even less so since they have among their ranks a large number of crazy gentiles, too. Crazy people in power are dangerous. How can you reason with someone who thinks it’s a good idea to introduce transgender and female soldiers to the Navy Seals? I mean, they are so crazy they are destroying their own military…

    I wrote I hoped the oligarchs came to their senses because I think this level of craziness is actually bad for them, too. I cannot imagine it’ll turn out OK for them.

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  110. @Kiza
    I do remember you from before, you are a s**t steerer with an attractive handle.

    Regarding the second strike capability, I am not an expert in submarine warfare, but I know that you are on the wrong path. Israeli nuclear missile submarines are German-made diesel-electrical, which means they cannot remain underwater for a long time, which means they are detectable by the advanced array of sensors that US and Russia have and China is building. Detectable means destroyable. Therefore, the Israeli nuclear missile submarines are a match for anything in the ME, possibly even for what Europe can field, but they would not be a match for the Russian capability.

    Finally, I did not consider the original proposition to be practical, but I thought just like Rurik that it had the merit of a new point of view. And it does not need to be done in a way of a direct threat. The best would be if a Russian nuclear target list, containing multiple Israeli targets, got accidentally leaked out. I never heard of a cowboy shooting the tail of a risen rattle-snake first instead of the head.

    Israeli nuclear missile submarines are German-made diesel-electrical, which means they cannot remain underwater for a long time, which means they are detectable

    Diesel-electricals are actually less noisy than nuclear subs. So they might stay underwater for shorter periods of time, but while they are underwater, they are more difficult to detect.

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  111. @Pat the Rat
    The Americans are keen on supporting the abortion industry, the illicit drugs industry, the porn industry, the gay industry, etc. etc. That is the American way of life for the last 50 years.

    Not surprisingly some like Duterte and Putin are over it.

    What has this to do with Syria? The problem is that for the ideologically driven leaders of the left like Obama and Hillary such matters are of the utmost importance. They are literally provoking WW3 over gay parades in Moscow.

    They have decided that Russia must change and are going after her via Libya, Iran, Syria and Ukraine. The actions of the American's don't make any sense otherwise. Why are they provoking chaos and war using Islamic militants? A pipeline! There are other places to run pipelines.

    The Russians and Filipinos are getting a bit shirty, the American cultural war over the last decades has turned the third world into a seedy vice and crime ridden nightclub for the benefit of decadent American tourists. And don't doubt that is is a large factor in American financial dominance, a corrupted nation is easy to bribe and control.

    The explanation I offer for all this is not on the radar for many people. The social and sexual revolution has long become one of those unquestioned assumptions and falls into the category of unquestionable truth for people on both sides of politics.

    It is the unquestioned assumptions concerning the morality of gay men and feminists and promiscuous sexual activity that people like Obama are willing to provoke WW3 over.

    The funny thing is that the gay men or feminists will never fight the wars. They will use funny money and pay Islamist's to do it. The American leaders of this generation are completely immoral.

    Your out of your fucking mind!

    This has nothing to do with the “sexual revolution”, this has everything to do with Zionist and Jews.

    I worked with the Ron Paul campaign and the support from the gay community was everywhere.

    Your just parroting the divisive BS from the Zionist war machine, pathetic.

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    • Replies: @Stonehands
    "...Your out of your fucking mind!...."

    Your lack of deeper- pattern thinking [ because jooooooos!!!! ] manifests itself in your gutter mouth and poor spelling.
  112. @Randal

    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.
     
    Yes, I agree that they certainly are, here. But that's merely a small measure of balance against the ruthless suppression of any references to excess jewish or Israeli/Zionist "influence" in the wider mainstream media and politics of the US sphere. Careers have been destroyed merely for referring to this basic fact of US reality, and senior US politicians from past presidents to Pat Buchanan have referred to it openly (mostly before it became career suicide in politics to do so).

    But it's not a matter of some overarching "jewish conspiracy", at least as far as I'm concerned. The Israel lobby is just a bunch of very powerful people whose interests in influencing US foreign policy (in particular) generally coincide, and are dominated by issues other than US interests. Notoriously, of course, many of them are not jewish but rather various flavours of fringe Christians, though imo it's as hard for jews in general to wholly escape a basic nationalist loyalty to the jewish state as it is for any of us to avoid loyalty to our own nation state, when push comes to shove.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!
    ....
    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist’s lusting to destroy them.
     
    That's a good question, but the fact that Israel wants to see the Syrian government overthrown and is prepared to see the islamists and jihadists used to achieve that is not, I think, open to honest dispute.

    It was entirely understandable that Israel did not want to be publicly seen as backing the rebels. But we know that at the key point in 2013 when the Obama regime (honestly or not) was seeking US political approval for strikes on Syrian government forces that would certainly have achieved the same as they had in Libya in overthrowing the government and opening the country up to jihadists, the Israeli Likudniks' main lobbying group in the US went "all out" to try to get backing for those strikes.

    AIPAC to go all-out on Syria

    More recently senior Israeli figures have been more open with their preference for even the worst of the sunni jihadists over the Syrian government:

    Israeli Intel Chief: We Don’t Want ISIS Defeated in Syria

    So in reality, the question is not: "does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?", but rather: "why does Israel support the armed rebels in Syria?". That's a complex question of strategic motivation, and clearly we don't have access to all the information the Israeli government and military have used to reach that conclusion. Here's my broad opinion as to the answer fwiw.

    Senior Israelis are over-focused on their longstanding enemies Hezbollah and Iran, for historical and emotive reasons, to the extent that it warps their reasoning. Their priority is breaking the link between these two, and they regard a sunni islamist victory in Syria, with the consequent likely bloody chaos throughout Syria, and with all the risks it clearly entails for the region, as being a price worth paying to achieve that.

    Presumably their thinking is that Golan is not vulnerable to attack by jihadist truck bombers anyway, and they can cope with islamist terrorists having free rein in Syria because it means they will have free rein to drone/air strike at will there, and it will guarantee US backing for Israeli military actions there in perpetuity. Meanwhile, they will look to settle with their bitter rival Hezbollah once its resupply routes through Syria have been broken. The destruction of Syria and pegging back of Hezbollah will be major blows against their main regional rival Iran.

    I don't say I agree with this strategic thinking (as I noted, I think Israel's elites, rather like the US's elites, are not entirely rational on the topic of Iran and Hezbollah), but it's the best I can come up with to explain what is a seemingly obviously counterproductive policy.

    “Yes, I agree that they certainly are, here. But that’s merely a small measure of balance against the ruthless suppression of any references to excess jewish or Israeli/Zionist “influence” in the wider mainstream media and politics of the US sphere. Careers have been destroyed merely for referring to this basic fact of US reality, and senior US politicians from past presidents to Pat Buchanan have referred to it openly (mostly before it became career suicide in politics to do so).”

    Great comment, and right on the money. When you look at the US government actions and they apply to US interests, they would seem totally misdirected and counterproductive, but if you replace US interests, with Israeli, suddenly everything becomes crystal clear and precisely aligned.

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  113. @colm
    No. We won't survive the Ziocons' demise since they will nuke all of us.

    Unfortunately you are correct:
    “This is why the Russians employed so many delaying tactics and why they have acted with such utmost caution: they are dealing with professional incompetent ideologues who simply do not play by the unwritten but clear rules of civilized international relations. This is what makes the current crisis so much worse than even the Cuban Missile Crisis: one superpower has clearly gone insane.”

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  114. @Quartermaster
    What you are prosing would require that Putin be insane. Everything Saker mentions about the US risking WW3 applies just as much to Putinist Russia.

    Given Obama's weakness, you may be right about the US disappearing. Much will depend on who is elected in November. The next POTUS will not have as much "flexibility" as Obama has had.

    A full circle. The US has joined Al Qaeda in Syria.
    The US-waged War on Terror, which had started 15 years ago, was proclaimed then as a war against Al Qaeda. How come that the US military servicemen are fighting on a side of Al Qaeda today? In other words, how come that the US government has joint Al Qaeda in a fight against the sovereign state of Syria? This is a nice question for Obama/Clinton team. The Q and A should be widely televised.
    General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
    “Taking countries” has produced nothing but rivers of blood, mounds of flesh, and the unspeakable sufferings for the Middle East populations. US became Al Qaeda.

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  115. Rurik, you forgot Hollywood. (“Hollywood” used as an identifier of state- and elite- run organized disinformation; guvmint calls this process “educating the populace” ).

    So did the Saker; his analysis covered military SWOT but neglected the propaganda war — “Information war” as David Ensor identified it here https://www.c-span.org/video/?402678-1/discussion-international-broadcasting

    Ensor is a former director of Voice of America; he is incensed that “Putin’s Russia” vastly outspends USA in the “information war,” and that Russian state-sponsored RT is “all lies,” including, presumably, the RT – Crosstalk video Saker linked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlcEPbsCqf0

    Propagandizing the masses was one of the several innovations that made WWI possible and so bloody.

    In an article a few weeks ago Ron Unz informed UF readers (may Unz numbers grow – MUNG) that the British conducted a massive propaganda campaign to “educate” the American people on the need to enter a war against Germany (at a time when Bolsheviks were killing Ukrainians and Russian kulaks by the millions).
    They were successful; that’s the power of propaganda.

    “There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it.”Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.
    They were successful; that’s the power of propaganda.

    Hollywood played a major role in all of those campaigns; according to Cora Sol Goldstein, the Hollywood – Washington collaboration in war propaganda created Hollywood as the prosperous purveyor of pop-culture and propaganda that it is.

    PS. To echo so many C Span callers, Thank goodness for C Span!! They are fair and balanced!! This morning, while Unz readers are wasting their time scouring alternative media for news about whether Ash Carter will go full rogue and drop nuclear weapons on Aleppo, C Span devoted its 3-hour morning show to Donald Trump’s “vulgar, vile, obscene, misogynistic” comments caught on tape 15 years ago.

    US provoking a nuclear war with Russia? You didn’t hear it on C Span Washington Journal, and if you had the temerity to call in and bring the topic to the attention of the C Span audience, the C Span moderator will cut short or divert from your comment.

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  116. @reiner Tor

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less.
     
    Well, here's one opinion, from the mouth of ex-ambassador Oren. Israel has consistently bombed Assad forces but no other forces in Syria. They have given hospital treatment to "freedom fighters".

    We also know that they helped Hamas (as opposition to Arafat) way back, and actually when Hamas won in Gaza, it was in part because Fatah didn't receive much help from Israel, and Israel mostly blocked help from the West Bank to arrive in Gaza. I think for Israel it's not very bad to have cannibals running their neighbors: nobody expects Israel to make peace with Hamas (though, having said that, some leftist lunatics still do...), or with ISIS. On the other hand, these cannibals are incapable of building nukes even with North Korean help, so they will be less of an actual threat, but more of nuisance (which is good since helps glue Israel's Jewish population together). I'm not sure I agree with that train of thought, but it's not totally irrational.

    reiner Tor — are there really “cannibals” and “head choppers” among ISIS?

    How can we believe anything, at all, when we learn that the Pentagon Using Private Contractors To Create Anti-ISIS Themed Fake News A Department of Defense official confirmed the digital warfare tactics and that a British PR firm had been paid $540 million by the US military to produce infomercials and fake news in Iraq.

    Israel frequently boasts that it is the most sophisticated of users of social media. How did ISIS go from cave-dweller to masters of social media?
    Arabs are tagged as the most backward and chronically disorganized of people. How did they go from camel-herders to drivers of Toyota pickups, in so short a time?

    What’s a fella to believe?

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  117. @reiner Tor
    Exactly. Whatever the benefits of kicking the Russians out of Syria to those who are advocating it, I'm sure it's trivial compared to what they'd lose in a nuclear exchange. I'm sure it's a case of bad groupthink, these guys (and gals) live in an intellectual bubble. Even if individually they might think of the risks, they take their clues from the others ("if nobody's worried, there's probably nothing to worry about"), just like traders taking their clues from the market ("it's up, so probably no reason to worry"), the problem is, by the time they realize they miscalculated, it'll be too late for us all. (Besides, they'll blame the evil, irrational Putin for this.)

    “I’m sure it’s a case of bad groupthink, these guys (and gals) live in an intellectual bubble.”

    Intellectual bubble? No, no… You give them too much credit. The zionist plutocratic system has been selecting the bestest opportunists for the upper echelon of the US government. The results show: The “echelon” makes the most spectacular collection of the incompetent. Just look at Mike Morell and Sam Power and do not forget Feith, “the dumbest fucking guy on the planet” (in the words of the General Tommy Franks.) By the way, Doug Feith (a dedicated Israel-firster) was trusted with a special task of weeding out the experienced military specialists in Arab culture in order to eliminate any competent influence of the decisions that led eventually to the ongoing Middle East tragedy. The infestation of the US government with zionists went hand-in-hand with lowering the intellectual level of the upper echelon of the US government. Though stupid obnoxiousness went through the roof.

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  118. @Pat the Rat
    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist's hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren't like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist's lusting to destroy them.

    “Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!!”

    Hello Pat:

    Actually, this is nothing new and has historical precedents. When Isabella was trying to reclaim Spanish lands stolen and ransacked by the Muslims back in the 15th century the local Jewish population was helping them and working treasonously against the Crown.

    There is nothing new under the sun.

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  119. @utu
    "Hamas would never have existed in the fist place had not Zionism made their existence necessary" - Not exactly. Hamas was actually created with the help of Mossad to delegitimize PLO of Arafat that had international support and was not religious. TPTB always uses the crazies, the extremists to derail the effort of the moderates. Muslim Brotherhood were used by CIA against Nasser but failed. Taliban like opposition was used against Afghanistan regime supported by Soviets in late 1970s to destabilize it and bring Soviet invasion. Al Queda, Al Nusra, Daesh you name them, all financed and supported by CIA and Mossad to destabilize moderate regimes.

    Anyway, you analogy between nazis and bolsheviks was wrong.

    oops — read Rurik’s analogy, Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism
    more closely. It’s not quite right in that Bolsheviks did not actively create Nazism, whereas Zionists definitely had a hand in creating Hamas.

    ALTHOUGH — on third thought — The Deborah Lipstadt brigade wants to keep “revisionists” sniffing around for gas chambers and getting put in jail for challenging the sacred number.

    I guess I watched too many Colombo programs: putting on a shabby trench coat and smoking a cigar automatically tunes you into the fact that the guilty party is trying to distract you from the real scene of the crime by challenging the legitimacy of clues at the false scene of the crime.
    If revisionists stay focused on Auschwitz, they won’t investigate the real Allied crimes that were hatched by FDR, Bernard Baruch, Brandeis-Frankfurter-Morgenthau, Churchill, etc. They are totally unrelated to some Hollywood concoction tagged holocaust; it’s not just the few details that Revisionists challenge but the whole holocaust narrative that is bogus.
    It may just be the case that Hitler was a tool of the Anglo Zionists just as Saddam and bin Laden were; once they’d served their purpose, they were eliminated (the Hitler case was a tad more complicated, but the masses of anti-Hitler propaganda that are still dumped on the sheeple broadly suggests that there is some huge, huge truth — bigger even than the 9/11 coverup — that the unwashed must not ever be permitted to discover.

    It may well be that “Nazism is to Bolshevism as Hamas is to Zionism”
    —> Zionists created Hamas just as Zionists created Nazism.

    I listened to this talk, by Jeremy Black, https://www.c-span.org/video/?407529-1/dwight-d-eisenhower-cold-war , while wearing a shabby trench coat and smoking a cigar. Black argues that the USA began the Cold War — began waging war on Bolsheviks — his term — in WWI, and that “WWII was an interruption in that anti-Bolshevik campaign,” which USA took up again in 1945.
    Black made the obligatory comment about Hitler: “to call Hitler ‘mad’ is to insult mad people everywhere . . .”
    I think I learned in Psych 101 that unless Pavlov’s dog is randomly reinforced, it will stop salivating when the bell is rung.
    otoh, I didn’t do so well in Psych 101: I don’t remember what happens when the mutt is over-reinforced: does it explode? Does it go mad and bite the hand that feeds it?

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  120. Late breaking news:

    Key Neocon Calls on US to Oust Putin

    Exclusive: A prominent neocon paymaster, whose outfit dispenses $100 million in U.S. taxpayers’ money each year, has called on America to “summon the will” to remove Russian President Putin from office, reports Robert Parry.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/07/key-neocon-calls-on-us-to-oust-putin/

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I don't know how unshakeable Putin's position is (I'd guess it'd be near impossible to remove him until he's so popular), but that sounds like insanity to me.
    , @bluedog
    It would seem like some patriotic American or Americans would start the cleansing project ridding the world of the evil that inhabit it both here and abroad.!!!
  121. @Kiza
    I was a teenager during the US War on Vietnam. I know that US MSM were always more "liberal" than "conservative" and that "liberal" is a code word for Jewish/Zionist, but I was not aware that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this. I intend to do a bit of reading to try and establish how much this was the case. Your point is credible, based on other things I know, but I want to know if this was the dominant factor in this totally opposite MSM attitude between a war neutral or disliked by the Zionists (as you say) and the contemporary US wars which are definitely for the benefit of the Zionists.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the "liberal" MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now. It is an apex of cynicism when you initiate wars to kill and ethnically cleanse the people who stand in the way of your territorial expansion and then you also hugely profit from it. It is patriotism which pays.

    The remainder of the US people have lost control over their own country and the best they know is to try emulate the Zionists and use the US Rent-an-Army to bomb their ethnic opponents as well. Peace can come to the World only when the US end up decentralised, which is the way the things are going.

    that “liberal” is a code word for Jewish/Zionist

    not always I don’t think Kiza. Unless you follow with ‘media’, as in liberal [Jewish] media.

    but I know lots of liberals who aren’t Jews. They just take their marching order from Jews by way of NYT and NPR and other organs of Jewish supremacism. It works well because the liberals are too stupid to know they’re even being led by the nose by white [Jewish] supremacists.

    War on Vietnam…. … US MSM … … Jewish/Zionist, … … that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this

    Yes, Jewish all the way. Pro-commie.

    Look at how the Jewish NYT published the Pentagon Papers, and were very much anti-war at the time, but now today can’t get enough wars for Israel.

    Remember Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin? Remember Alan Ginsburg and Ira Einhorn? If these guys were around today they’d be all for the wars on Iraq and Syria.

    Think David Horowitz. In the sixties he was an anti-Vietnam war radical. And now today that the US is bombing Muslim countries inconvenient to Israel into smoking rubble, he couldn’t be more thrilled about the wars.

    Or consider the entire neocon movement. They started out as liberals and Trotskyists, but then when it came to wars in the Middle East, then >>poof<<, suddenly they realized they were "conservatives!" and war mongers on acid.

    but also it's important not to paint Jews with too broad a brush. Seymour Hersh was against the Vietnam war and he's been against all the contrived wars for fun and profit since. One of my personal heroes, Carl Sagan was also against the Vietnam war and remained very much anti-war his entire life. Saying correctly that "War is murder writ large".

    But there can be no doubt that Jews for the most part were virulently against the Vietnam war, whereas today as a group, seem perfectly sanguine over the wars today in the Middle East (to benefit Israel). Indeed, as Donald Trump calls for an "America first" movement, the Jews of the world seem almost apoplectic at that expression. Calling him an 'anti-Semite' for daring to put any nation above Israel.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the “liberal” MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now.

    that Jews have owed our media since the beginning of the 20th century is evidenced by the fact that Lord Balfour promised them Palestine if they (the Jews) would bring the US into WWI on behalf of England. Their ownership and influence of the newspapers was that great, that they could simply change the opinions of America vis-a-vis war on a whim.

    The Jews don’t own the MIC outright like they own the MSM. That those two mega-power’s interests often dovetail (Eternal War for Israel) – is the doom of the planet.

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    • Replies: @Stonehands
    "The Jews don’t own the MIC outright like they own the MSM....'

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    ...Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?

    Perhaps, like affirmative action, there should be intellectual reparations or a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis.
    , @schmenz
    Very well said. Bravo.
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    Keep in mind the Pentagon Papers had the effect of deflecting blame for the Vietnam fiasco away from the CIA and onto the DoD. (Ellsburg worked for RAND at one point.). So then, as now, the tentacles of the intelligence organs were involved.
  122. @Pat the Rat
    The Americans are keen on supporting the abortion industry, the illicit drugs industry, the porn industry, the gay industry, etc. etc. That is the American way of life for the last 50 years.

    Not surprisingly some like Duterte and Putin are over it.

    What has this to do with Syria? The problem is that for the ideologically driven leaders of the left like Obama and Hillary such matters are of the utmost importance. They are literally provoking WW3 over gay parades in Moscow.

    They have decided that Russia must change and are going after her via Libya, Iran, Syria and Ukraine. The actions of the American's don't make any sense otherwise. Why are they provoking chaos and war using Islamic militants? A pipeline! There are other places to run pipelines.

    The Russians and Filipinos are getting a bit shirty, the American cultural war over the last decades has turned the third world into a seedy vice and crime ridden nightclub for the benefit of decadent American tourists. And don't doubt that is is a large factor in American financial dominance, a corrupted nation is easy to bribe and control.

    The explanation I offer for all this is not on the radar for many people. The social and sexual revolution has long become one of those unquestioned assumptions and falls into the category of unquestionable truth for people on both sides of politics.

    It is the unquestioned assumptions concerning the morality of gay men and feminists and promiscuous sexual activity that people like Obama are willing to provoke WW3 over.

    The funny thing is that the gay men or feminists will never fight the wars. They will use funny money and pay Islamist's to do it. The American leaders of this generation are completely immoral.

    I agree. Looking at what the Dems have done in the past 8 years it’s so obvious it’s a war on family formation. The pajama boy ad, especially, marked a new level of subversion of normal [white] male behavior. White men better find their balls, fast.

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  123. @geokat62
    Late breaking news:

    Key Neocon Calls on US to Oust Putin

    Exclusive: A prominent neocon paymaster, whose outfit dispenses $100 million in U.S. taxpayers’ money each year, has called on America to “summon the will” to remove Russian President Putin from office, reports Robert Parry.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/07/key-neocon-calls-on-us-to-oust-putin/
     

    I don’t know how unshakeable Putin’s position is (I’d guess it’d be near impossible to remove him until he’s so popular), but that sounds like insanity to me.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    As Russian nationalists go, Putin is quite middle of the road and very restrained. There are several younger people far more nationalist, and who would not be as restrained as Putin.

    You are right it is insanity.

    But humans in general have a blind spot: what they have not experienced personally is not real.
    A big problem with these insane people is that they live in America.
    America has never experienced a total, devastating war on its mainland*, so all that death and destruction is an abstraction. Before the nuclear age, US was well protected by the oceans. No country in the world could invade and occupy her. But things are very different now. These insane people are playing with fire. Nobody knows how far things will go once the first nuke is launched either deliberately or accidentally.

    [World's Most Powerful Nuclear Bomb - Tsar Bomba]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R7pZOAWQrk

    Who knows how many Tsar Bombas Russians have in kits, ready to be assembled and delivered?
    Just a couple of weeks ago, Russians conducted a massive civil defense drill, involving 10s of millions of people. They are clearly preparing for the worst case scenario.

    God help us all.


    ----
    * excepting the Civil war.
    , @geokat62

    ... but that sounds like insanity to me.
     
    You think that sounds insane. What did you make of this one:

    “We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran” - general at Joint Staff, as disclosed by former general, Wesley Clark

    While these statements sound insane to most people, they are de rigueur for the neocons. This latter statement was formulated by PNAC, cofounded by Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan. I think the neocon's motto is: think big, or go home. They have openly declared that remaking the Middle East is one of their prime objectives. Their goal is to enhance the security of the villa in the jungle and the biggest threat to that security is something called the Shia Arc - Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. The problem they're having in executing their goal is Putin's Russia. You see, Russia, as a permanent member of UNSC, has a veto. And while they failed to exercise it to safeguard Gaddafi's Libya, there are not prepared to make the same mistake, again. Therein lies the problem... and why Putin is regularly demonized in MSM. But if there is one thing the neocons are renowned for, it is persistence. Do you recall the redline Obama imposed on Assad? Well Putin stepped in an pulled his chestnuts out of that fire... something about which the neocons were not overly pleased.

    So, let's just sit and watch how they manage to get the US and their NATO puppets to impose a No Fly Zone in Syria, without UNSC approval. I'm confident they'll get Hillary to impose it within the first 90 days after taking office.

    The "insanity" has just begun.

  124. @Pat the Rat
    "anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh"

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don't see here?

    Isn't far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever. The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?

    they’ve said as much

    they’ve said they’d prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?

    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

    no

    Obama is a tool. He’s been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel’s behalf. So if you’re looking for your Rapture, Obama’s just the ticket. (ironic isn’t it?)

    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they’re willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel’s behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to ‘the Jews’.

    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.

    it isn’t religion that they hate. It’s white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they’d hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

    you’re out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it’s all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.

    don’t you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world’s Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying “Merry Christmas”?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ’s eternal fate?

    check it out. There’s a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world’s religious Jews, they haven’t quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

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    • Replies: @DaveE
    Great posts, Rurik. Said so much better than I ever could.

    I'd just like to say, though, that Jewish hatred of whites is only partially habitual. They've sort-of gotten used to the idea that the WASP will always be on top, because they (we) were for so long.

    But I venture to surmise that if the Puerto Ricans or Aborigines occupied so many of the top slots in our culture over the last century, Jewish hated of Puerto Ricans would be off-the-charts.

    They simply can't stand that they've had 3,500 years to take over the world and are STILL not even close to being worshiped as the G_d's they think they are. (More like devils, in fact, but I digress.....)
    , @SolontoCroesus
    The other day C Span called upon Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the current president of the National Education Association (NEA) to tell us why/how Trump is a "terrible role model for our children." "We have received reports of increased bullying in our public schools, by students who are wearing Trump T-shirts, or who quote Trump!"

    Googling for some background on NEA's Eskelsen Garcia, this popped up:


    http://neajac.org/Happy%20summer%20all%20Jewish%20Affairs%20Caucus%20Members.pdf

    Happy summer all Jewish Affairs Caucus Members,

    Many of us just returned from the NEA-RA in Denver. This year 7000 delegates represented your voice.
    The JAC met each day and I wanted to share some of the discussions.
    1. There were comments in regard to VP Becky Pringle's invocation. After I return from vacation, I will be corresponding with NEA leadership on the topic-it was a bit religious in nature.
    2. There was discussion about the not for profit booth. We decided to continue it next year probably moving toward a T-shirt idea. However, it was quite obvious that the amount of purchasing in the not for profits was on a decline. With fewer delegates at the RA the booth would be more to have a presence and get out the message that we exist and less about making large sums of money.
    3. In the coming months I will contact ADL, AIPAC etc to consider exhibiting next year in Orlando for the upcoming NEA RA.
    4. Charlie, reelected treasurer for the millionth time, is going to find out the addresses of the three teens killed in Israel for a tree donation from JAC. As you know, Israel is in a crisis again and all of us are watching the news each day.
    5. Patrick, re-elected Secretary of the JAC, and Rae, former chair, headed the object to consideration about a NBI [??] regarding the Middle East. The caucus did not want to open a can of worms. They received a lot of help from other members of the caucus. Our sentiments were upheld.
    6. Charlie and JR met with the Peace and Justice Caucus numerous times. Plans for joint activities are underway. Each caucus chair intends to write the leadership about the lack of communication (no notices in any printed or electronic publication) and the lack of meeting space.
    7. Charlie and JR also met with the Maine delegation about the discontinuation of the student-retiree joint project before each RA. JR stood with the Maine delegate when she spoke to the budget item and tried to introduce an amendment supporting the project. The NEA leadership cut it all anyway.
    8. Charlie, Patrick, Rae and JR attended the "wedding" of Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the newly elected President of the NEA. Pictures will follow on the website.
    9. Dues for all members (retired or active) will now be $25. Please, even if you can't attend the RA, stay a member of the JAC by sending Charlie your $25.
    10. Marc Jones from California was elected Vice Chair.
    We had delegates join us from Illinois, California, Alaska, Michigan, Florida, Georgia, Texas, Utah, Oklahoma, Federal, Washington, Pennsylvania, Hawaii and Connecticut.
     

    These are the people that US taxpayers -- and property owners -- pay handsomely to teach our children.
    , @utu
    "Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. " - You can't come up with a better explanation?
    , @utu
    "The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people." - It's more about Christianity than race.
    , @Miro23

    "Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pisses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to ‘the Jews’."
     
    And they're having lots of fun jerking him around, with so little concern, that it almost looks as if he's being blackmailed. If he is, he could forget about his legacy, admit that he had gay lovers or whatever, and have a press conference to name his handlers and what he's done for them.

    "It’s white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they’d hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people."
     
    This has been a theme ever since they were a European minority, but they got satisfaction with the Gulag.

    Most of the camp commanders were Jewish, with the Bolshevik, October 1917 minority coup being a catastrophe for the ethnic Russian and Ukrainian majority. The Bolshevik leaders were for the most part Jewish and they their used absolute power to put in train the largest slaughter of Christian Europeans that the world has ever seen.

    The tallies attributable to the NKVD (director Genrik Yagoda and deputy Yakov Agranov both Jewish), the Gulag (heads all Jewish: Aron Solts, Yakov Rappoport, Lazar Kogan, Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel ) and the Ukrainian death famine of the winter of 1932-33 (organized by Lazar Kaganovich), each exceeded by millions the Holocaust with the western media to the present day carefully censoring all references.
    , @Anonymous
    "don’t you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world’s Jews?"

    No, the greatest enemy of Christianity is itself, and the pagan polytheist delusional holes it has dug up.

    To cover one, it digs more, and then some more... while covering none.

    Why do you think your faith is bleeding so many faithful? Its not because of the *beep* Jews, or the Muslims, or the Hindoos, or the mo*beep* fire worshippers!!

    (Okay, maybe I should remove the Hindoos from the list, given the amount of spiritual borrowing you guys have done from their faith; Man-gods and their children, Trinity/Trimurti, Sainthood, Monkhood, etc.)

    Anyway, its all you. Get it.


    "...Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people."
    Yes, white people worshipping white men, who beget children... or is it begetting themselves? Oh boy!!

    My advice, enjoy your glory when you have the chance. Because, you are having none of it later.

  125. @Stonehands
    Rurik, you can be a wealth of knowledge, but you lose all credibility if you think the nationalist Vietnam civil war was fought to save anyone from Jewish communism.
    It was the same old finance capitalists sowing chaos for profits, without any regard for something as archaic as "victory".
    Our "putative" leaders breached the moral threshold long ago.. and are drunk on the rarified atmosphere beyond good and evil.

    but you lose all credibility if you think the nationalist Vietnam civil war was fought to save anyone from Jewish communism.

    I know that most, if not all the putative “justifications” for the war on Viet Nam were lies, sure.

    but most, if not all the men who enlisted- did so because they believed those lies.

    Sort of the way Pat Tillman believed the lies about 911

    So most of the men who were fighting it, did actually believe that they were fighting to protect America’s freedoms from the commies.

    But just as with all of Americas myriad wars, and especially the ones going on today; it was all lies and greed and treachery and rich war pigs getting richer while poor men got ripped apart.

    “If any question why we died, Tell them, because our fathers lied”

    ~ Rudyard Kipling

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  126. @Rurik

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?
     
    they've said as much

    they've said they'd prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?


    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!
     
    no

    Obama is a tool. He's been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel's behalf. So if you're looking for your Rapture, Obama's just the ticket. (ironic isn't it?)


    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.
     
    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they're willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel's behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza's face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to 'the Jews'.


    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.
     
    it isn't religion that they hate. It's white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they'd hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it's the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.
     
    you're out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it's all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.
     
    don't you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world's Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying "Merry Christmas"?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ's eternal fate?

    check it out. There's a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world's religious Jews, they haven't quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

    Great posts, Rurik. Said so much better than I ever could.

    I’d just like to say, though, that Jewish hatred of whites is only partially habitual. They’ve sort-of gotten used to the idea that the WASP will always be on top, because they (we) were for so long.

    But I venture to surmise that if the Puerto Ricans or Aborigines occupied so many of the top slots in our culture over the last century, Jewish hated of Puerto Ricans would be off-the-charts.

    They simply can’t stand that they’ve had 3,500 years to take over the world and are STILL not even close to being worshiped as the G_d’s they think they are. (More like devils, in fact, but I digress…..)

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  127. @reiner Tor
    I don't know how unshakeable Putin's position is (I'd guess it'd be near impossible to remove him until he's so popular), but that sounds like insanity to me.

    As Russian nationalists go, Putin is quite middle of the road and very restrained. There are several younger people far more nationalist, and who would not be as restrained as Putin.

    You are right it is insanity.

    But humans in general have a blind spot: what they have not experienced personally is not real.
    A big problem with these insane people is that they live in America.
    America has never experienced a total, devastating war on its mainland*, so all that death and destruction is an abstraction. Before the nuclear age, US was well protected by the oceans. No country in the world could invade and occupy her. But things are very different now. These insane people are playing with fire. Nobody knows how far things will go once the first nuke is launched either deliberately or accidentally.

    [World's Most Powerful Nuclear Bomb - Tsar Bomba]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R7pZOAWQrk

    Who knows how many Tsar Bombas Russians have in kits, ready to be assembled and delivered?
    Just a couple of weeks ago, Russians conducted a massive civil defense drill, involving 10s of millions of people. They are clearly preparing for the worst case scenario.

    God help us all.

    —-
    * excepting the Civil war.

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  128. @Rurik

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?
     
    they've said as much

    they've said they'd prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?


    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!
     
    no

    Obama is a tool. He's been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel's behalf. So if you're looking for your Rapture, Obama's just the ticket. (ironic isn't it?)


    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.
     
    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they're willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel's behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza's face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to 'the Jews'.


    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.
     
    it isn't religion that they hate. It's white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they'd hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it's the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.
     
    you're out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it's all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.
     
    don't you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world's Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying "Merry Christmas"?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ's eternal fate?

    check it out. There's a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world's religious Jews, they haven't quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

    The other day C Span called upon Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the current president of the National Education Association (NEA) to tell us why/how Trump is a “terrible role model for our children.” “We have received reports of increased bullying in our public schools, by students who are wearing Trump T-shirts, or who quote Trump!”

    Googling for some background on NEA’s Eskelsen Garcia, this popped up:

    http://neajac.org/Happy%20summer%20all%20Jewish%20Affairs%20Caucus%20Members.pdf

    Happy summer all Jewish Affairs Caucus Members,

    Many of us just returned from the NEA-RA in Denver. This year 7000 delegates represented your voice.
    The JAC met each day and I wanted to share some of the discussions.
    1. There were comments in regard to VP Becky Pringle’s invocation. After I return from vacation, I will be corresponding with NEA leadership on the topic-it was a bit religious in nature.
    2. There was discussion about the not for profit booth. We decided to continue it next year probably moving toward a T-shirt idea. However, it was quite obvious that the amount of purchasing in the not for profits was on a decline. With fewer delegates at the RA the booth would be more to have a presence and get out the message that we exist and less about making large sums of money.
    3. In the coming months I will contact ADL, AIPAC etc to consider exhibiting next year in Orlando for the upcoming NEA RA.
    4. Charlie, reelected treasurer for the millionth time, is going to find out the addresses of the three teens killed in Israel for a tree donation from JAC. As you know, Israel is in a crisis again and all of us are watching the news each day.
    5. Patrick, re-elected Secretary of the JAC, and Rae, former chair, headed the object to consideration about a NBI [??] regarding the Middle East. The caucus did not want to open a can of worms. They received a lot of help from other members of the caucus. Our sentiments were upheld.
    6. Charlie and JR met with the Peace and Justice Caucus numerous times. Plans for joint activities are underway. Each caucus chair intends to write the leadership about the lack of communication (no notices in any printed or electronic publication) and the lack of meeting space.
    7. Charlie and JR also met with the Maine delegation about the discontinuation of the student-retiree joint project before each RA. JR stood with the Maine delegate when she spoke to the budget item and tried to introduce an amendment supporting the project. The NEA leadership cut it all anyway.
    8. Charlie, Patrick, Rae and JR attended the “wedding” of Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the newly elected President of the NEA. Pictures will follow on the website.
    9. Dues for all members (retired or active) will now be $25. Please, even if you can’t attend the RA, stay a member of the JAC by sending Charlie your $25.
    10. Marc Jones from California was elected Vice Chair.
    We had delegates join us from Illinois, California, Alaska, Michigan, Florida, Georgia, Texas, Utah, Oklahoma, Federal, Washington, Pennsylvania, Hawaii and Connecticut.

    These are the people that US taxpayers — and property owners — pay handsomely to teach our children.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    These are the people that US taxpayers — and property owners — pay handsomely to teach our children.
     
    http://neatoday.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/HRC_LEG-RA-e1467738144382.jpg
  129. how is it that the low hanging fruit is left to last.the hurticane that is the middle east is constantly revolving in a clock wise motion.one war after another around and around it goes.as it churns away a banana smoothie is produced.add a little yogurt.some cream and the smoothie is ready to be suckled.bon ape a teat.as the french say .
    the go to refreshment of the wordpress keyboard warrior……..WKW

    the WKW much like its cousin the SJW is mostly an over 40 male trump like chappie.cheered on by

    the shaker
    sic tyrranis temper
    mondowondo
    moon of montana.
    infofartingho

    the wordpress brigade have one thing in common

    the constant attack on either the jews or the jew…you choose.a handy diversion for the masses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "...the constant attack on either the jews or the jew…"
    Let's be clear.
    There are normal Jewish people that contribute to their fellow citizens and to the worls, and there are ziocons - the psychopathic neocons dreaming of Eretz Israel. The cream of the current ziocon powerhouse (the Lobby) is made of a progeny of the second-rate stock of East European shtettls: the quarrelsome, opportunistic, petty, obnoxious, intellectually-average kind represented in the US by Kristols, Daniel Pletka, Douglas Feith and such. They are noisy and veracious, and they want to look mighty. Eretz Israel is their mythological land of the bestest ("chosen"). To achieve their dream, the US ziocons have trumped the vital interests of their "adoptive" country (US) and pushed for the bloody wars of aggression against their tribe's main enemies - the Arabs, particularly those Arabs who created the functioning states in the Middle East (see Iraq, Libya, and Syria). These wars are having consequences, including the enormous loss of life among the ME civilians of all ages and the floods of desperate "displaced persons." As a result of these consequences, the West is approaching, acceleratingly, a moment of open backlash against the parasitic ziocons.
    The words "anti-Semitism" should be better replaced with a more precise word "anti-Zionism."
  130. @reiner Tor
    I don't know how unshakeable Putin's position is (I'd guess it'd be near impossible to remove him until he's so popular), but that sounds like insanity to me.

    … but that sounds like insanity to me.

    You think that sounds insane. What did you make of this one:

    “We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran” – general at Joint Staff, as disclosed by former general, Wesley Clark

    While these statements sound insane to most people, they are de rigueur for the neocons. This latter statement was formulated by PNAC, cofounded by Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan. I think the neocon’s motto is: think big, or go home. They have openly declared that remaking the Middle East is one of their prime objectives. Their goal is to enhance the security of the villa in the jungle and the biggest threat to that security is something called the Shia Arc – Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. The problem they’re having in executing their goal is Putin’s Russia. You see, Russia, as a permanent member of UNSC, has a veto. And while they failed to exercise it to safeguard Gaddafi’s Libya, there are not prepared to make the same mistake, again. Therein lies the problem… and why Putin is regularly demonized in MSM. But if there is one thing the neocons are renowned for, it is persistence. Do you recall the redline Obama imposed on Assad? Well Putin stepped in an pulled his chestnuts out of that fire… something about which the neocons were not overly pleased.

    So, let’s just sit and watch how they manage to get the US and their NATO puppets to impose a No Fly Zone in Syria, without UNSC approval. I’m confident they’ll get Hillary to impose it within the first 90 days after taking office.

    The “insanity” has just begun.

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  131. @Rurik

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?
     
    they've said as much

    they've said they'd prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?


    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!
     
    no

    Obama is a tool. He's been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel's behalf. So if you're looking for your Rapture, Obama's just the ticket. (ironic isn't it?)


    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.
     
    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they're willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel's behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza's face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to 'the Jews'.


    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.
     
    it isn't religion that they hate. It's white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they'd hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it's the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.
     
    you're out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it's all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.
     
    don't you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world's Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying "Merry Christmas"?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ's eternal fate?

    check it out. There's a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world's religious Jews, they haven't quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

    “Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. ” – You can’t come up with a better explanation?

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    “Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. ” – You can’t come up with a better explanation?
     
    I have to try to keep it pithy. (I have a regrettable tendency towards long-windedness)

    Obama is a black racist. In his heart of hearts he hates and despises the white man. He belonged to a Afro-centric church that railed against America as irredeemably racist country, and Obama sat in those pews every Sunday. His books drip with anti-white sentiment.

    So when this black man with a racist chip on his shoulder who's achieved 'the most powerful office in the world', has to take calls relentlessly by a supremely arrogant white man who orders him around like they were both back on the plantation, I'm sure it irks something deep inside Obama.

    of course the dynamics of the relationship are more complicated. In some ways both men are natural allies in that they both hate and despise white America. But in the big picture, they both serve the Oligarchs that run the deepstate. If Bibi gets a call and is told to back off on bombing Assad for the time being, he has to listen, and then that same person may pick up the phone and order Obama to shoot down a Russian jet. They're both really puppets, and on that level, perhaps they can commiserate. But personally, Obama hates Bibi perhaps worse than he even hates Donald Trump. Both Bibi and Trump are arrogant white men, but in Bibi's case, Obama has to eat what Bibi dishes out, and that creates its own kind of resentment/hatred
  132. @Rurik

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?
     
    they've said as much

    they've said they'd prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?


    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!
     
    no

    Obama is a tool. He's been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel's behalf. So if you're looking for your Rapture, Obama's just the ticket. (ironic isn't it?)


    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.
     
    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they're willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel's behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza's face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to 'the Jews'.


    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.
     
    it isn't religion that they hate. It's white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they'd hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it's the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.
     
    you're out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it's all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.
     
    don't you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world's Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying "Merry Christmas"?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ's eternal fate?

    check it out. There's a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world's religious Jews, they haven't quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

    “The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.” – It’s more about Christianity than race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    “The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.” – It’s more about Christianity than race.
     
    well, you're wrong here utu

    who are the most evil people that have ever, ever existed since the beginning of time?

    that's a no brainer, it was the Nazis

    and they are the very worst, evil, beyond evil and beyond anything that is even comprehensible when it comes to evil.

    and why?

    because they were white, nationalistic racists who fought to secure their place in the sun as Germans, (the race) not as Christians (the religion)

    who are the men the Jews (and all the assorted SJW and BLM and La Raza) of the world hate most today? Christians? Or white nationalists?

    the Christians are their dogs. They go around preaching about the need to support Israel no matter what and immigration is great and blah, blah, blah. But the white nationalists don't give a &*%$ about Israel. But rather seek to see the white race persevere. And it is for this that they are hated beyond earthy words.

    Who is the most hated man in the world today? Answer- Donald Trump, with Vlad Putin following in the distant second place. And why do they hate Trump? Is it because of his Christianity? Or because he wants to end policies that are in place to genocide the white race off the planet for all eternity?

    Make no mistake, it is the white race that drives them nutty with rage. And not for anything that the white man has done to them, but rather how the white man makes them feel about themselves.

    http://img.irtve.es/imagenes/first-lady-obama-and-frances-first-lady-bruni-sarkozy-attend-ceremony-to-mark-65th-anniversary-of-day-landings-in-normandy/1284645659832.jpg

    (sorry if this is a little off topic, but it just seems like these discussions tend to do that at times)

  133. […] sito d’informazione The Unz, un’interessante articolo dell’analista The Saker evidenzia l’improvvisa […]

    Read More
  134. @mcohen
    how is it that the low hanging fruit is left to last.the hurticane that is the middle east is constantly revolving in a clock wise motion.one war after another around and around it goes.as it churns away a banana smoothie is produced.add a little yogurt.some cream and the smoothie is ready to be suckled.bon ape a teat.as the french say .
    the go to refreshment of the wordpress keyboard warrior........WKW

    the WKW much like its cousin the SJW is mostly an over 40 male trump like chappie.cheered on by

    the shaker
    sic tyrranis temper
    mondowondo
    moon of montana.
    infofartingho

    the wordpress brigade have one thing in common

    the constant attack on either the jews or the jew...you choose.a handy diversion for the masses.

    “…the constant attack on either the jews or the jew…”
    Let’s be clear.
    There are normal Jewish people that contribute to their fellow citizens and to the worls, and there are ziocons – the psychopathic neocons dreaming of Eretz Israel. The cream of the current ziocon powerhouse (the Lobby) is made of a progeny of the second-rate stock of East European shtettls: the quarrelsome, opportunistic, petty, obnoxious, intellectually-average kind represented in the US by Kristols, Daniel Pletka, Douglas Feith and such. They are noisy and veracious, and they want to look mighty. Eretz Israel is their mythological land of the bestest (“chosen”). To achieve their dream, the US ziocons have trumped the vital interests of their “adoptive” country (US) and pushed for the bloody wars of aggression against their tribe’s main enemies – the Arabs, particularly those Arabs who created the functioning states in the Middle East (see Iraq, Libya, and Syria). These wars are having consequences, including the enormous loss of life among the ME civilians of all ages and the floods of desperate “displaced persons.” As a result of these consequences, the West is approaching, acceleratingly, a moment of open backlash against the parasitic ziocons.
    The words “anti-Semitism” should be better replaced with a more precise word “anti-Zionism.”

    Read More
  135. @German_reader
    "But sadly enough, all I’m able to do right now is keep my fingers crossed and note my unhappiness in comments on the Internet…"

    It's depressing, but I think you can be proud about what you've already achieved with this site...it's certainly appreciated by myself and many other readers.
    As for elites in the US and many European countries, I really do wonder how we ended up with people so obviously deluded and incompetent in charge. Something seems to have gone seriously wrong in the last 25 years.

    “…As for elites in the US and many European countries,…”

    Here they are, right here on the Unz- the elites. After all it is the mind [Idea] which forms the world, not vice- versa.

    Read More
  136. @TJM
    Your out of your fucking mind!

    This has nothing to do with the "sexual revolution", this has everything to do with Zionist and Jews.

    I worked with the Ron Paul campaign and the support from the gay community was everywhere.

    Your just parroting the divisive BS from the Zionist war machine, pathetic.

    “…Your out of your fucking mind!….”

    Your lack of deeper- pattern thinking [ because jooooooos!!!! ] manifests itself in your gutter mouth and poor spelling.

    Read More
  137. @SolontoCroesus
    The other day C Span called upon Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the current president of the National Education Association (NEA) to tell us why/how Trump is a "terrible role model for our children." "We have received reports of increased bullying in our public schools, by students who are wearing Trump T-shirts, or who quote Trump!"

    Googling for some background on NEA's Eskelsen Garcia, this popped up:


    http://neajac.org/Happy%20summer%20all%20Jewish%20Affairs%20Caucus%20Members.pdf

    Happy summer all Jewish Affairs Caucus Members,

    Many of us just returned from the NEA-RA in Denver. This year 7000 delegates represented your voice.
    The JAC met each day and I wanted to share some of the discussions.
    1. There were comments in regard to VP Becky Pringle's invocation. After I return from vacation, I will be corresponding with NEA leadership on the topic-it was a bit religious in nature.
    2. There was discussion about the not for profit booth. We decided to continue it next year probably moving toward a T-shirt idea. However, it was quite obvious that the amount of purchasing in the not for profits was on a decline. With fewer delegates at the RA the booth would be more to have a presence and get out the message that we exist and less about making large sums of money.
    3. In the coming months I will contact ADL, AIPAC etc to consider exhibiting next year in Orlando for the upcoming NEA RA.
    4. Charlie, reelected treasurer for the millionth time, is going to find out the addresses of the three teens killed in Israel for a tree donation from JAC. As you know, Israel is in a crisis again and all of us are watching the news each day.
    5. Patrick, re-elected Secretary of the JAC, and Rae, former chair, headed the object to consideration about a NBI [??] regarding the Middle East. The caucus did not want to open a can of worms. They received a lot of help from other members of the caucus. Our sentiments were upheld.
    6. Charlie and JR met with the Peace and Justice Caucus numerous times. Plans for joint activities are underway. Each caucus chair intends to write the leadership about the lack of communication (no notices in any printed or electronic publication) and the lack of meeting space.
    7. Charlie and JR also met with the Maine delegation about the discontinuation of the student-retiree joint project before each RA. JR stood with the Maine delegate when she spoke to the budget item and tried to introduce an amendment supporting the project. The NEA leadership cut it all anyway.
    8. Charlie, Patrick, Rae and JR attended the "wedding" of Lily Eskelsen Garcia, the newly elected President of the NEA. Pictures will follow on the website.
    9. Dues for all members (retired or active) will now be $25. Please, even if you can't attend the RA, stay a member of the JAC by sending Charlie your $25.
    10. Marc Jones from California was elected Vice Chair.
    We had delegates join us from Illinois, California, Alaska, Michigan, Florida, Georgia, Texas, Utah, Oklahoma, Federal, Washington, Pennsylvania, Hawaii and Connecticut.
     

    These are the people that US taxpayers -- and property owners -- pay handsomely to teach our children.

    These are the people that US taxpayers — and property owners — pay handsomely to teach our children.

    http://neatoday.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/HRC_LEG-RA-e1467738144382.jpg

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  138. @Rurik

    that “liberal” is a code word for Jewish/Zionist
     
    not always I don't think Kiza. Unless you follow with 'media', as in liberal [Jewish] media.

    but I know lots of liberals who aren't Jews. They just take their marching order from Jews by way of NYT and NPR and other organs of Jewish supremacism. It works well because the liberals are too stupid to know they're even being led by the nose by white [Jewish] supremacists.

    War on Vietnam.... ... US MSM ... ... Jewish/Zionist, ... ... that even in the 60s and 70s this was the case and that the anti-war stance of a portion of MSM was based on this
     
    Yes, Jewish all the way. Pro-commie.

    Look at how the Jewish NYT published the Pentagon Papers, and were very much anti-war at the time, but now today can't get enough wars for Israel.

    Remember Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin? Remember Alan Ginsburg and Ira Einhorn? If these guys were around today they'd be all for the wars on Iraq and Syria.

    Think David Horowitz. In the sixties he was an anti-Vietnam war radical. And now today that the US is bombing Muslim countries inconvenient to Israel into smoking rubble, he couldn't be more thrilled about the wars.

    Or consider the entire neocon movement. They started out as liberals and Trotskyists, but then when it came to wars in the Middle East, then >>poof<<, suddenly they realized they were "conservatives!" and war mongers on acid.

    but also it's important not to paint Jews with too broad a brush. Seymour Hersh was against the Vietnam war and he's been against all the contrived wars for fun and profit since. One of my personal heroes, Carl Sagan was also against the Vietnam war and remained very much anti-war his entire life. Saying correctly that "War is murder writ large".

    But there can be no doubt that Jews for the most part were virulently against the Vietnam war, whereas today as a group, seem perfectly sanguine over the wars today in the Middle East (to benefit Israel). Indeed, as Donald Trump calls for an "America first" movement, the Jews of the world seem almost apoplectic at that expression. Calling him an 'anti-Semite' for daring to put any nation above Israel.

    The second issue of interest is who owned the MIC in the 60s and 70s? I doubt that the “liberal” MSM would have worked against the MIC if it were owned by the same Zionists as now.
     
    that Jews have owed our media since the beginning of the 20th century is evidenced by the fact that Lord Balfour promised them Palestine if they (the Jews) would bring the US into WWI on behalf of England. Their ownership and influence of the newspapers was that great, that they could simply change the opinions of America vis-a-vis war on a whim.

    The Jews don't own the MIC outright like they own the MSM. That those two mega-power's interests often dovetail (Eternal War for Israel) - is the doom of the planet.

    “The Jews don’t own the MIC outright like they own the MSM….’

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    …Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?

    Perhaps, like affirmative action, there should be intellectual reparations or a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    …Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?
     
    Stockholm syndrome

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?
     
    “The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

    ~ Orwell

    a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis
     
    The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone. It all gets decided by who has the mic. And when the Jews of the world were handed the mic (the Fed), they were given the power to rule, because of the golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules.

    It's not like they're all that smart. Just look at the level of trash coming out of Hollywood. Look at them feebly trying to smear Trump. They own all the media of consequence and all the "respected" politicians and all the newspapers and radio stations and everything, and still all they can do is hurl school playground insults. I wish there were a smart one somewhere just to make it more interesting.
  139. @Harry Huntington
    Perhaps the sensible Russian move is to involve Israel. Inform them that if their US clients take on Syria directly, Russia will target Israel. Suggest Russia has lost patience and Israel could face depressed trajectory nukes from Russian submarines. End of Regime. Proper follow on strikes would of course take out Israeli nukes. Suggest that Israel has a real come to Jesus moment about playing hardball.

    Harry Huntington’s suggestion to target Israel is exactly what should be done.

    As Saker said,”…one superpower has clearly gone insane.
    Are the Americans crazy enough to risk WWIII over Aleppo…”

    The Jews run the US and the Jews are willing to fight down to the last American. So yes they’re all for nuclear war between Russia\China and the US. At the same time they nuke the Arabs and the Persians. It would take away all their enemies in one fell swoop. It would take away all those problems with the pesky 9-11 situation. Like building 7 that fell the same speed as a rock dropped in air. Like building 7 was only held up with air when it fell. We know the building wasn’t floating in air so we also know the bottom was demoed out from under it. It would take away all those problems of the Russians realizing that 66 million of their people were killed by the Jewish gulags.

    The pattern is the same. At one time the USSR was run by the Jews. They in turn became the evil aggressors of the planet. Now they have control of the US and we are the evil aggressors of the planet.

    The Jews are a tribe of psychopaths. They, while a little smarter than most humans, mostly rely on aggression and the knowledge that most humans don’t envision how fucked up they are in the head. They get away with a lot of nonsense because most people can’t imagine themselves doing such ridiculously evil things. As soon as you recognize that they’re a tribe of psychopaths their behavior and their clients behavior makes perfect sense. They don’t care how many people they kill. They want power at ALL cost. Nothing is to costly for them to obtain power over everyone.

    The only method that psychologist have come up with to deal with psychopaths is to get them away from you. The Jews have been thrown out of every single country they’ve ever been to in any significant numbers. It’s time to throw them out of the US.

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  140. @utu
    "Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. " - You can't come up with a better explanation?

    “Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. ” – You can’t come up with a better explanation?

    I have to try to keep it pithy. (I have a regrettable tendency towards long-windedness)

    Obama is a black racist. In his heart of hearts he hates and despises the white man. He belonged to a Afro-centric church that railed against America as irredeemably racist country, and Obama sat in those pews every Sunday. His books drip with anti-white sentiment.

    So when this black man with a racist chip on his shoulder who’s achieved ‘the most powerful office in the world’, has to take calls relentlessly by a supremely arrogant white man who orders him around like they were both back on the plantation, I’m sure it irks something deep inside Obama.

    of course the dynamics of the relationship are more complicated. In some ways both men are natural allies in that they both hate and despise white America. But in the big picture, they both serve the Oligarchs that run the deepstate. If Bibi gets a call and is told to back off on bombing Assad for the time being, he has to listen, and then that same person may pick up the phone and order Obama to shoot down a Russian jet. They’re both really puppets, and on that level, perhaps they can commiserate. But personally, Obama hates Bibi perhaps worse than he even hates Donald Trump. Both Bibi and Trump are arrogant white men, but in Bibi’s case, Obama has to eat what Bibi dishes out, and that creates its own kind of resentment/hatred

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  141. @geokat62
    Late breaking news:

    Key Neocon Calls on US to Oust Putin

    Exclusive: A prominent neocon paymaster, whose outfit dispenses $100 million in U.S. taxpayers’ money each year, has called on America to “summon the will” to remove Russian President Putin from office, reports Robert Parry.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/07/key-neocon-calls-on-us-to-oust-putin/
     

    It would seem like some patriotic American or Americans would start the cleansing project ridding the world of the evil that inhabit it both here and abroad.!!!

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  142. @utu
    "The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people." - It's more about Christianity than race.

    “The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.” – It’s more about Christianity than race.

    well, you’re wrong here utu

    who are the most evil people that have ever, ever existed since the beginning of time?

    that’s a no brainer, it was the Nazis

    and they are the very worst, evil, beyond evil and beyond anything that is even comprehensible when it comes to evil.

    and why?

    because they were white, nationalistic racists who fought to secure their place in the sun as Germans, (the race) not as Christians (the religion)

    who are the men the Jews (and all the assorted SJW and BLM and La Raza) of the world hate most today? Christians? Or white nationalists?

    the Christians are their dogs. They go around preaching about the need to support Israel no matter what and immigration is great and blah, blah, blah. But the white nationalists don’t give a &*%$ about Israel. But rather seek to see the white race persevere. And it is for this that they are hated beyond earthy words.

    Who is the most hated man in the world today? Answer- Donald Trump, with Vlad Putin following in the distant second place. And why do they hate Trump? Is it because of his Christianity? Or because he wants to end policies that are in place to genocide the white race off the planet for all eternity?

    Make no mistake, it is the white race that drives them nutty with rage. And not for anything that the white man has done to them, but rather how the white man makes them feel about themselves.

    http://img.irtve.es/imagenes/first-lady-obama-and-frances-first-lady-bruni-sarkozy-attend-ceremony-to-mark-65th-anniversary-of-day-landings-in-normandy/1284645659832.jpg

    (sorry if this is a little off topic, but it just seems like these discussions tend to do that at times)

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  143. @attonn
    "A single military incident, such as what happened recently when Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 and Russia chose not to retaliate". (Saker)

    That's nonsense.
    Russia did retaliate - by placing S-400 at Khmeimim AB, imposing visas on Turks, banning sales of tours to Turkey, economic sanctions, decimating Turkoman rebels, etc.

    That single lost plane cost the Turks $10B at least.

    If America openly attacks Russia, you can forget about keeping this thing "limited". All USAF bases in Europe and Middle East will be set ablaze, quite possibly with tactical nukes.

    And no, Russia is not "much weaker than the USA", at least in Syria and its immediate vicinity. America may enjoy some marginal advantage, but it will be gone quickly.

    Russian’s retaliation against Turk’s reckless adventurism was not apparent; perhaps Russian’s covert retaliation against Turks’ aggression is the root of all the USA provocations and threats in Syria; if the Russian did not hit back the Turk what is the likelihood the Russian will hit back the American the American must be wondering.

    Russian hit Turks back asymmetrically is way more less risky than hitting back the American asymmetrically.

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  144. … there should be intellectual reparations or a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy…

    See, Sam S. While you may be reluctant calling the goy dumb, some of your co-religionists have no issues doing so.

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    • Replies: @Stonehands
    What does religion have to do with a racial/genetic observation?

    How else can you explain murricans slavish devotion to Hollywood and the Idiotbox?
  145. Why do you use term “Malvinas Islands”? They’ve been called the “Falkland Islands” since 1833.

    Are you planning to discuss Temasik, Siam, Ceylon, or Abyssinia?

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  146. @Rurik

    No doubt it was much better than Nazi rule would have been
     
    tell that to these people

    http://orig06.deviantart.net/7f7d/f/2013/327/2/5/holodomor_by_rouesolaire-d6v9ba5.png

    The notion that the Ukraine was subjected to a deliberate genocide in the 1930s has been subjected to considerable study that puts in doubt that notion.

    See: Fraud, Famine and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard.

    http://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

    Take particular note of the pictures that were faked and misrepresented.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    Hello, Pogohere!

    I just finished reading a book on the Holodomor..."Execution by Hunger: The Hidden Holocaust" by Miron Dolot. Great book.

    I've heard about people trying to debunk the Holodomor, but I haven't seen any scholarly work on the matter. Basically, there are three groups who would have a very keen interest in covering up the Holodomor...the Jews, the Russians, and the Socialists/Communists. The PDF you link to is a book written by Douglass Tottle...who is a Socialist. I can dismiss this out of hand.
    , @Rurik

    The Ukrainian Genocide Myth
     
    I guess the reason people have for suggesting that the Holodomor never happened, is because it, like what happened at places like the Katyn forest, go a long way towards making the motivations of Joseph Stalin known to the world. And by extension, Germanys desire not to want the same thing for Germany.

    The Holodomor happened a full decade before any Holocaust, and was even more horrific than the Holocaust, which was perpetrated almost humanely by comparison. Whereas the Holodomor was proof of a sadistic cruelty that defies all human comprehension. They could have just shot those people like they did at Katyn. Shipping all the grains and livestock out of the area was a logistical feat, and required many resources and man hours to accomplish. Whereas the unstinted use of the machine gun would have made short work of the Kulaks. But they wanted them to suffer, and they wanted them to die slowly and excruciatingly, watching their children die slowly before their eyes. Just imagine that. Imagine the kind of people who force you to watch your children waste away, day after day, until they're dead.

    To do that to a people your hatred has to be otherworldly.

    And it wasn't for anything those people did that earned such hatred, rather is was for what they were; white, Christians of ability, just like the Germans. And when they had the chance finally to starve the German people after the war was over, even Eisenhower got in on it, with his death camps for teenage German boys once the war was over, where he too deliberately starved hundreds of thousands of them to a slow and deliberate, freezing death of starvation.

    But then, perhaps just as with the Katyn forest massacre (that they lie about), and the Holodomor (that they lie about), maybe Eisenhower's death camps were all made up too? Eh?

    I have nothing but contempt for Nazis or Nazi apologists, but I must say, that when you consider and calculate the sheer monstrous cruelty and genocidal hatred of their enemies, it makes the Nazis almost look kind and compassionate by comparison. If the acts of the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany at the end of the war doesn't prove that the Nazis were right about them, and that they were indeed sub-human rapists and murderous, cruel drooling goons, then truth is meaningless.

    That the Holodomor happened is irrefutable. That millions of innocent, harmless farmers were systematically starved to death by Stalin and his (Jewish) henchmen (like Lazar Kaganovich) is a well know historical fact. The only thing that is in dispute are the exact motivations of those who would want to rewrite history to whitewash the terrible crimes of those who're guilty, perhaps to maintain the cartoon narrative that all the evil was on one side of that war, and all the good was on the other, when nothing on this planet could be further from the truth.
  147. @Avery
    {I think the Chinese wildcard is the one important factor Saker is missing in this article. China has already signaled their willingness to become involved via “advisors”.}

    There is no Chinese wildcard.

    China has no strategic interests in Syria for which to risk troops.
    Historically, traditionally, culturally China minds its own business around its periphery.

    China will go to war, if it has to, with US or anybody else that threatens her interest in her backyard, but you'll never see Chinese troops in Syria.
    There is nothing in it for them.
    Unlike Russia, nothing that happens in Syria will affect China in the least.

    I guess you consider the massive infrastructure investments that China is currently carrying out in Central and South Asia as “mind(ing) its own business around its periphery.” When the pipelines are completed linking Iran’s eastern border directly to western China and CIPS becomes a real alternative to SWIFT, what kind of teeth will American-backed sanctions against Iran have? As to your misinformed statement that the Chinese have no interest in or will derive no benefit from sending troops to Syria, I think you’d do better to study large geopolitical trends and alliances. By providing a stronger counterweight against the American empire (and its hodgepodge coalition of emasculated European nations and head chopping terrorists), China would be solidifying its strong and growing partnership with Russia, win hearts and minds across Central Asia, parts of the Middle East and Africa, and most importantly for China, set up a quid pro quo with Russia for the time when China needs naval support in the Pacific. The US is very busy trying to tie the East and Southeast Asian nations into some kind of coalition of deterrence to what is perceived to be China’s expansion (it’s not expansion) into the second island chain. America’s naval forces in the Pacific are still significant, though with the introduction of new missile technology they are fast becoming floating targets. China, a deliberate, patient player on the world stage, may be willing to commit to Syria in exchange for future help against the US in the South China Sea.

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  148. […] This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-options-against-a-us-attack-on-syria/ […]

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  149. […] This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-options-against-a-us-attack-on-syria/ […]

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  150. If there is a thermo nuclear war would only America and Russia be hit ? Or would Europe and East Asia also be targets, are there any other areas as well ?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    I don't like to think about this...I'm a prepper. What good would it be to prep for life in an extremely hostile, radioactive environment? There would be no point to it.

    If there were to be a nuclear exchange: Russia, the US, Europe, and Israel would all be destroyed within a couple hours. I don't know about Asia...probably them too.

    I doubt it'll come to that (fingers crossed).
    , @annamaria
    It would not be surprising to learn that Russian Federation keeps Israel on a cross-hair: Israel totally deserves such treatment considering the warmongering Lobby and the behavior of Israel' "representatives" in the US Congress and MIC. The problem is that the conflict could start on a low-level of military command, thanks to the US intensifying demonization of Russia. The air of mistrust between two nuclear superpowers is toxic for humanity.
  151. […] This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-options-against-a-us-attack-on-syria/ […]

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  152. Interesting RT CrossTalk interview, ‘Russia-US relations: Dangerous Escalation’;

    At around 0:50, R.T’s Peter Lavelle turns to retired CIA veteran, Ray McGovern, with a question re Washington’s seemingly irrational position towards Syria;
    McGovern then mentions what he calls…. the “Elephant in the room”, i.e., Israel.
    RT Peter Lavelle appears anxious to move on! No follow up questions, eh Peter? Haha

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5fuAUM2BM

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    great video L.K.

    I always assume the main motivation for Israel to see Syria ripped apart is for the Golan. But this guy brings up the important part about Hezbollah supplying Lebanon though Syria.

    Last night after watching as much of that sow as I could stand, they had some Republican strategist on talking about how Trump and Pence were at odds over Syria, and then he went into how Aleppo was being occupied by the 'good' terrorists, er, I mean 'rebels", and that Putin was targeting the "good rebels' and how that was unacceptable because they were fighting Assad, and all this convoluted lying and dissembling.

    Trump apparently understands what's going on, while his running mate is either clueless or a whore.

    Everyday we get closer to a tight election with so much at stake gets more dangerous by the day that they might do something incredibly stupid.
  153. @geokat62

    ... there should be intellectual reparations or a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy...
     
    See, Sam S. While you may be reluctant calling the goy dumb, some of your co-religionists have no issues doing so.

    What does religion have to do with a racial/genetic observation?

    How else can you explain murricans slavish devotion to Hollywood and the Idiotbox?

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  154. @pogohere
    The notion that the Ukraine was subjected to a deliberate genocide in the 1930s has been subjected to considerable study that puts in doubt that notion.

    See: Fraud, Famine and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard.

    http://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

    Take particular note of the pictures that were faked and misrepresented.

    Hello, Pogohere!

    I just finished reading a book on the Holodomor…”Execution by Hunger: The Hidden Holocaust” by Miron Dolot. Great book.

    I’ve heard about people trying to debunk the Holodomor, but I haven’t seen any scholarly work on the matter. Basically, there are three groups who would have a very keen interest in covering up the Holodomor…the Jews, the Russians, and the Socialists/Communists. The PDF you link to is a book written by Douglass Tottle…who is a Socialist. I can dismiss this out of hand.

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  155. @Pat the Rat
    You mean the assassination of JFK?

    I looked up the date, Aldous Huxley and CS Lewis died on the same day.

    Interesting article about it here exploring various aspects of the three men:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/03/three-great-men-died-that-day-jfk-c-s-lewis-and-aldous-huxley.html

    Not sure how JFK's assassination bears on my comments?

    It is true there were problems prior but the coup initiated, expanded and expedited the decline. According to Strauss and Howe in The Fourth Turning it was one of the momentous pivots of our saeculum.

    https://www.saeculumresearch.com/knowledge-center/generations-and-turnings/turnings-introduction

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  156. @neutral
    If there is a thermo nuclear war would only America and Russia be hit ? Or would Europe and East Asia also be targets, are there any other areas as well ?

    I don’t like to think about this…I’m a prepper. What good would it be to prep for life in an extremely hostile, radioactive environment? There would be no point to it.

    If there were to be a nuclear exchange: Russia, the US, Europe, and Israel would all be destroyed within a couple hours. I don’t know about Asia…probably them too.

    I doubt it’ll come to that (fingers crossed).

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  157. The Russians need only remain standing until the central banks exhaust their ability to glue together the utterly disfunctional global monetary system with digital money printing (QE):

    World’s Central Banks Still Pumping New Money At Near Record $200B Monthly Rate

    http://tinyurl.com/ht3v5v700.png

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  158. @Pat the Rat
    I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist's hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

    I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

    The Jews aren't like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

    But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist's lusting to destroy them.

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist’s hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

    I don’t think so-called “Israel” and “Jews” are synonymous; but let’s just put that issue and these semantics aside for the moment…as it seems beside the point and just a distraction. Based on your comments, I assume this would mean all so-called “Israeli” citizens are “Jews”…but, again, getting into this discussion seems somewhat unrelated and just a distraction to main “issue(s)” at hand here.

    The answer to your original “question” seems obvious to me. In response, let me ask you this: how many bombs have so-called “ISIS” and/or so-called “al-Qaeda” detonated in so-called “Israel” to date?

    Additionally, which groups exactly are operating on the Israeli/Syria border now? Which group(s) of so-called “moderate” cannibals are currently in control and responsible for that “peaceful” boarder at present? Which boarder crossings?

    Names???

    Just curious…

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    • Replies: @nsa
    Here in Ft. Meade and Langley, we lovingly refer to the terrorist useful idiots as JOOHADIS.......
  159. @Ben_C

    Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist’s hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

     

    I don't think so-called "Israel" and "Jews" are synonymous; but let's just put that issue and these semantics aside for the moment...as it seems beside the point and just a distraction. Based on your comments, I assume this would mean all so-called "Israeli" citizens are "Jews"...but, again, getting into this discussion seems somewhat unrelated and just a distraction to main "issue(s)" at hand here.

    The answer to your original "question" seems obvious to me. In response, let me ask you this: how many bombs have so-called "ISIS" and/or so-called "al-Qaeda" detonated in so-called "Israel" to date?

    Additionally, which groups exactly are operating on the Israeli/Syria border now? Which group(s) of so-called "moderate" cannibals are currently in control and responsible for that "peaceful" boarder at present? Which boarder crossings?

    Names???

    Just curious...

    Here in Ft. Meade and Langley, we lovingly refer to the terrorist useful idiots as JOOHADIS…….

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  160. @Rurik

    Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?
     
    they've said as much

    they've said they'd prefer anything to the Assad regime, which would necessarily mean a Syria that stays intact. Whereas Israel intends to steal the Golan Heights. How are they going to do that if Syria remains an intact sovereign nation? But if it descends into a dystopian nightmare a la Libya, then Israel can steal whatever they want to steal. See?


    Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!
     
    no

    Obama is a tool. He's been destroying Muslim countries like Libya and Syria directly on Israel's behalf. So if you're looking for your Rapture, Obama's just the ticket. (ironic isn't it?)


    Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.
     
    none of this has anything to do with religion, except insofar as they're willing to cynically use the Christian Zionists to slaughter innocent people on Israel's behalf.

    Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pissses in the shvartza's face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to 'the Jews'.


    The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever.
     
    it isn't religion that they hate. It's white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they'd hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it's the religion of white people.

    The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.
     
    you're out of your mind. The sixties radicals were the Jews. The goyim were just along for the (great) ride. I was a hippy of sorts myself, and I love the sixties and seventies. The music was sublime, the sexual liberation and the drug culture were transcendental. It was all great until it ended and the Jews decided they needed to destroy white America and Europe and crash Western civilization on the rocks of Eternal War (for Israel). It will be a Pyrrhic victory for them when it's all said and done, that much I can see for sure.

    In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.
     
    don't you know that Christianity has no greater enemy in the world than the world's Jews?

    who do think is behind all the anti-Christian crap coming out of Hollywood? Who do you think is outlawing all displays of Christianity all over the place? Who is behind the anti-Christmas movement, banning people from even saying "Merry Christmas"?

    are you really that daft?

    do you know what the Jews believe is Jesus Christ's eternal fate?

    check it out. There's a little bit of confusion over the details. According to the world's religious Jews, they haven't quite figured out if Jesus Christ is forever and all eternity boiling in a vat of human semen or human excrement.

    Look it up. Perhaps you can give us the definitive answer to that important question.

    “Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pisses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to ‘the Jews’.”

    And they’re having lots of fun jerking him around, with so little concern, that it almost looks as if he’s being blackmailed. If he is, he could forget about his legacy, admit that he had gay lovers or whatever, and have a press conference to name his handlers and what he’s done for them.

    “It’s white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they’d hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people.”

    This has been a theme ever since they were a European minority, but they got satisfaction with the Gulag.

    Most of the camp commanders were Jewish, with the Bolshevik, October 1917 minority coup being a catastrophe for the ethnic Russian and Ukrainian majority. The Bolshevik leaders were for the most part Jewish and they their used absolute power to put in train the largest slaughter of Christian Europeans that the world has ever seen.

    The tallies attributable to the NKVD (director Genrik Yagoda and deputy Yakov Agranov both Jewish), the Gulag (heads all Jewish: Aron Solts, Yakov Rappoport, Lazar Kogan, Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel ) and the Ukrainian death famine of the winter of 1932-33 (organized by Lazar Kaganovich), each exceeded by millions the Holocaust with the western media to the present day carefully censoring all references.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    The Bolshevik leaders were for the most part Jewish and they their used absolute power to put in train the largest slaughter of Christian Europeans that the world has ever seen.
     
    yes, and they will not relent

    hence the immigration inundation of all Christian Europeans until there are no more Christian Europeans.

    they got the flower of Europa to commit massive fratricide in the last century

    in this one they want to use immigration to finish the job

    War, strife, death and misery in the last century, and war, strife death and misery in this one too

    charming people

    but who's worse? those who non-Christian Europeans who want to genocide the Europeans off the planet, or those Europeans who take shekels to help get the job done?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDU9V579g74
  161. @Stonehands
    "The Jews don’t own the MIC outright like they own the MSM....'

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    ...Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?

    Perhaps, like affirmative action, there should be intellectual reparations or a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis.

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    …Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?

    Stockholm syndrome

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?

    “The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

    ~ Orwell

    a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis

    The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone. It all gets decided by who has the mic. And when the Jews of the world were handed the mic (the Fed), they were given the power to rule, because of the golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules.

    It’s not like they’re all that smart. Just look at the level of trash coming out of Hollywood. Look at them feebly trying to smear Trump. They own all the media of consequence and all the “respected” politicians and all the newspapers and radio stations and everything, and still all they can do is hurl school playground insults. I wish there were a smart one somewhere just to make it more interesting.

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    • Replies: @Stonehands
    "The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone..."

    ...And they make the most out of it scientifically:

    The pathetic male populations weekend revolves around "watching" instead of participating. The proof is their sitting in front of some giant flat screen T.V. for 3 hours to watch a one hour game.

    The jingoism, the bull***t military presence and flyovers in these Nazi-like televised extravaganzas have everything to do with mass man losing control of himself as he is being subsumed under the totalitarian police state; brainwashed into thinking he is a patriot, too, for supporting the Pentagon- that's the lead bureaucracy in MORALLY subverting the country [don't forget those Satanic halftime shows] these fools think they are defending- and in the same way professional sports subverts virtually everything good and decent about sports in America.

    This sort of socially engineered mob behavior is inimicable to manliness, but desirable in mass man.

    As Spengler put it, no animal trainer has his animal more under his control, than those who own the media do these trained apes who fancy themselves men...


    P.S.

    The fish rots from the head down.

    The FED must be smashed into a thousand pieces and scattered to the wind.

    You won't be voting your way out of this hot mess...
  162. This is a case where Russia really needs to take Sun Tzu’s advice and “know the enemy”.

    And in this case the “enemy” is a Satanic cult that seeks to achieve complete world domination and control by “giving worth to evil” (i.e., worshiping Satan). One of the things which made this approach so effective for the cult (so far at least) is the brainwashing-induced spiritual bankruptcy/moral incompetence of the masses. The masses have been “beguiled” (Genesis 3:13), mainly by way of the beast’s monopolistic control of modern mass communications (i.e., its “mouth, as the mouth of a lion”, Rev 13:2).

    (BTW all of this is predicted in the Bible in supernaturally prescient detail, and the subject Satanic cult – the first beast of Rev 13, aka the fourth beast of Daniel 7 – is also implicitly identified therein).

    In light of this, the struggle is not ultimately about the fate of Syria, but about the fate of the whole world, because the “beast” will not stop unless and until it is destroyed.

    From a purely worldly perspective, the cult members would be described as “insane”, but the spiritual description of pure “evil” is more appropriate and useful (especially for purposes of predicting their behavior).

    The members of this cult (henceforth “beast”) are not motivated by forces originating in the physical realm, but by the spiritual force of evil, which originates in the unseen spiritual realm (Ephesians 6:12).

    And in order to control the governments of the corrupt “West”, you’ll note that the beast has successfully purged any and all reasonable/morally competent people from any position of power and influence, and replaced them all with the most corrupt (thus controllable, people they could find).

    For example, consider the behavior of Samantha Power, John Kirby, Mark Miley, etc. The irrational wild-eyed fanaticism you see on public display is obviously not the comportment of reasonable people, but of demon-possessed people; and this is all by design.

    Now consider their main puppet ruler, Obama. They obviously didn’t pick him for his (lack of) “intelligence”; they didn’t pick him for his (lack of) “organizational/managerial skills”; they didn’t pick him for his (lack of) “diplomatic skills”; rather, they seem to have selected him for one reason alone: his abject moral depravity. In the person of Obama they apparently have the embodiment of the spirit of Satan, which is exactly the person they need to occupy the most powerful, most unaccountable seat of political power that ever existed on earth – the post 9/11 office of “president” of the U.S.

    Yes, the beast plotted and carried out 9/11 so as to overthrow the last vestiges of “the rule of law” in the U.S., consolidate all power in the executive branch, install the “antichrist” into that seat of power (after all, what good is the most powerful office if the puppet is constrained by a conscience), erect a domestic police state, and set about using U.S. military, economic and political power to forcibly impose the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist “New World Order” on the whole planet (in the attempt to fulfill Isaiah 14:13,14).

    And this is where we are today.

    The “enemy” (evil) is like an aggressive cancer. It cannot be reasoned with. It will not compromise. It will continue to attack the host body – planet earth – until the host is dead, even though when the host dies, the evil dies as well.

    Read More
    • Agree: Stonehands
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "the post 9/11 office of “president” of the U.S."

    The post 911 president was Bush. A born again kook, quite like you.
  163. @pogohere
    The notion that the Ukraine was subjected to a deliberate genocide in the 1930s has been subjected to considerable study that puts in doubt that notion.

    See: Fraud, Famine and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard.

    http://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

    Take particular note of the pictures that were faked and misrepresented.

    The Ukrainian Genocide Myth

    I guess the reason people have for suggesting that the Holodomor never happened, is because it, like what happened at places like the Katyn forest, go a long way towards making the motivations of Joseph Stalin known to the world. And by extension, Germanys desire not to want the same thing for Germany.

    The Holodomor happened a full decade before any Holocaust, and was even more horrific than the Holocaust, which was perpetrated almost humanely by comparison. Whereas the Holodomor was proof of a sadistic cruelty that defies all human comprehension. They could have just shot those people like they did at Katyn. Shipping all the grains and livestock out of the area was a logistical feat, and required many resources and man hours to accomplish. Whereas the unstinted use of the machine gun would have made short work of the Kulaks. But they wanted them to suffer, and they wanted them to die slowly and excruciatingly, watching their children die slowly before their eyes. Just imagine that. Imagine the kind of people who force you to watch your children waste away, day after day, until they’re dead.

    To do that to a people your hatred has to be otherworldly.

    And it wasn’t for anything those people did that earned such hatred, rather is was for what they were; white, Christians of ability, just like the Germans. And when they had the chance finally to starve the German people after the war was over, even Eisenhower got in on it, with his death camps for teenage German boys once the war was over, where he too deliberately starved hundreds of thousands of them to a slow and deliberate, freezing death of starvation.

    But then, perhaps just as with the Katyn forest massacre (that they lie about), and the Holodomor (that they lie about), maybe Eisenhower’s death camps were all made up too? Eh?

    I have nothing but contempt for Nazis or Nazi apologists, but I must say, that when you consider and calculate the sheer monstrous cruelty and genocidal hatred of their enemies, it makes the Nazis almost look kind and compassionate by comparison. If the acts of the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany at the end of the war doesn’t prove that the Nazis were right about them, and that they were indeed sub-human rapists and murderous, cruel drooling goons, then truth is meaningless.

    That the Holodomor happened is irrefutable. That millions of innocent, harmless farmers were systematically starved to death by Stalin and his (Jewish) henchmen (like Lazar Kaganovich) is a well know historical fact. The only thing that is in dispute are the exact motivations of those who would want to rewrite history to whitewash the terrible crimes of those who’re guilty, perhaps to maintain the cartoon narrative that all the evil was on one side of that war, and all the good was on the other, when nothing on this planet could be further from the truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    Why would you "have nothing but contempt for Nazis"? The Nazis were not the monsters you imply that they were.

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved, against the same demonic forces that confront us today with an impending WW3.

    BTW General George Patton apparently realized as much after the war was over and was accordingly and promptly assassinated.
  164. @Rurik

    The Ukrainian Genocide Myth
     
    I guess the reason people have for suggesting that the Holodomor never happened, is because it, like what happened at places like the Katyn forest, go a long way towards making the motivations of Joseph Stalin known to the world. And by extension, Germanys desire not to want the same thing for Germany.

    The Holodomor happened a full decade before any Holocaust, and was even more horrific than the Holocaust, which was perpetrated almost humanely by comparison. Whereas the Holodomor was proof of a sadistic cruelty that defies all human comprehension. They could have just shot those people like they did at Katyn. Shipping all the grains and livestock out of the area was a logistical feat, and required many resources and man hours to accomplish. Whereas the unstinted use of the machine gun would have made short work of the Kulaks. But they wanted them to suffer, and they wanted them to die slowly and excruciatingly, watching their children die slowly before their eyes. Just imagine that. Imagine the kind of people who force you to watch your children waste away, day after day, until they're dead.

    To do that to a people your hatred has to be otherworldly.

    And it wasn't for anything those people did that earned such hatred, rather is was for what they were; white, Christians of ability, just like the Germans. And when they had the chance finally to starve the German people after the war was over, even Eisenhower got in on it, with his death camps for teenage German boys once the war was over, where he too deliberately starved hundreds of thousands of them to a slow and deliberate, freezing death of starvation.

    But then, perhaps just as with the Katyn forest massacre (that they lie about), and the Holodomor (that they lie about), maybe Eisenhower's death camps were all made up too? Eh?

    I have nothing but contempt for Nazis or Nazi apologists, but I must say, that when you consider and calculate the sheer monstrous cruelty and genocidal hatred of their enemies, it makes the Nazis almost look kind and compassionate by comparison. If the acts of the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany at the end of the war doesn't prove that the Nazis were right about them, and that they were indeed sub-human rapists and murderous, cruel drooling goons, then truth is meaningless.

    That the Holodomor happened is irrefutable. That millions of innocent, harmless farmers were systematically starved to death by Stalin and his (Jewish) henchmen (like Lazar Kaganovich) is a well know historical fact. The only thing that is in dispute are the exact motivations of those who would want to rewrite history to whitewash the terrible crimes of those who're guilty, perhaps to maintain the cartoon narrative that all the evil was on one side of that war, and all the good was on the other, when nothing on this planet could be further from the truth.

    Why would you “have nothing but contempt for Nazis”? The Nazis were not the monsters you imply that they were.

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved, against the same demonic forces that confront us today with an impending WW3.

    BTW General George Patton apparently realized as much after the war was over and was accordingly and promptly assassinated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved,
     
    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren't a real threat, perhaps that's why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.

    I know the world's PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you're dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

    I guess because the world is still fighting the same international bankers and tribal supremacists, who're still trying to pound a stake though the heart of Western civilization (and the Muslim world), and finish the job they started in the last century?
    , @Avery
    {Nazi Germany was a defensive entity,.....}

    Of course it was.

    Here is one example: an invading Red Army soldier taken prisoner deep inside the Bavaria, where the Nazi German defense entity, the Wehrmacht, was battling the invading hordes from the East:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-E0406-0022-011,_Russland,_deutscher_Kriegsgefangener.jpg
  165. {If the acts of the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany at the end of the war doesn’t prove that the Nazis were right about them, and that they were indeed sub-human rapists and murderous, cruel drooling goons, then truth is meaningless.}

    Spoken like a true Nazi apologist and revisionist.
    Poor, poor misunderstood Hitler.
    Poor, poor misunderstood Nazis.
    They just had to invade SU and kill and murder 10s of million of people.

    If the Red Army had behaved anywhere near the behaviour of Nazi invaders, there would be no Germany left. Nazi Germans fully intended and planned to exterminate all Slavs to make room for their Lebensraum to be populated by the alleged ‘Master’ race.

    There was no German military left in 1945.
    The insane Nazis were sending children to take on T-34s.
    Germany was completely at the mercy of the Red Army.
    They could have wiped out every last German if they wanted to.

    You talk about rapes.
    What did the Nazi invaders do to the Russian women, bring them flowers?

    Nazi invaders killed and murdered ~10 million Soviet citizens, overwhelmingly Slavs, causing the deaths of ~25 million Soviet citizens total.

    {That millions of innocent, harmless farmers were systematically starved to death…}

    Read about the 2+ year Siege of Leningrad by Nazi sub-human murderers and genocidal, cruel drooling goons. Read about the Hell the civilians went through. The slow, cruel starvation….

    [[NKVD files report the first use of human meat as food on 13 December 1941.The report outlines thirteen cases which range from a mother smothering her eighteen-month-old to feed her three older children to a plumber killing his wife to feed his sons and nieces.

    By December 1942, the NKVD arrested 2,105 cannibals dividing them into two legal categories: corpse-eating (trupoyedstvo) and person-eating (lyudoyedstvo). The latter were usually shot while the former were sent to prison. The Soviet Criminal Code had no provision for cannibalism so all convictions were carried out under Code Article 59–3, "special category banditry".

    Instances of person-eating were significantly lower than that of corpse-eating; of the 300 people arrested in April 1942 for cannibalism, only 44 were murderers.64% of cannibals were female, 44% were unemployed, 90% were illiterate, 15% were rooted inhabitants, and only 2% had any criminal records. More cases occurred in the outlying districts than the city itself. Cannibals were often unsupported women with dependent children and no previous convictions, which allowed for a certain level of clemency in legal proceedings.

    Given the scope of mass starvation, cannibalism was relatively rare. Far more common was murder for ration cards. In the first six months of 1942, Leningrad witnessed 1,216 such murders. At the same time, Leningrad was experiencing its highest casualty rate, as high as 100,000 people per month. Lisa Kirschenbaum notes "that incidents of cannibalism provided an opportunity for emphasizing that the majority of Leningraders managed to maintain their cultural norms in the most unimaginable circumstances."] (from Wiki)

    A small sample of what Nazis wrought in SU.

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    the (very real) suffering that happened in Leningrad was due to the exigencies of war. Not a deliberate agenda of sadistic cruelty for its own sake. Just like the way the Germans forbid rape and the Soviets encouraged it. Night vs day.

    That men will rape during war is one of the hapless failings of our gender and species, but that a government would encourage such a thing, proves them to be monsters.

    I don't try to dismiss the atrocities that the Nazis committed, I only point out that their enemies were worse.
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    The war in the East was nasty. Thank you for providing this little known insight.
  166. @Miro23

    "Obama hates Bibi because Bibi is a white man who pisses in the shvartza’s face whenever it suits him. And he knows he has to take it, because he owes his career and all hopes for a future legacy to ‘the Jews’."
     
    And they're having lots of fun jerking him around, with so little concern, that it almost looks as if he's being blackmailed. If he is, he could forget about his legacy, admit that he had gay lovers or whatever, and have a press conference to name his handlers and what he's done for them.

    "It’s white people, and white men in particular. If white men were not the least bit religious, then they’d hate them just the same. The only reason they hate Christianity is because it’s the religion of white people."
     
    This has been a theme ever since they were a European minority, but they got satisfaction with the Gulag.

    Most of the camp commanders were Jewish, with the Bolshevik, October 1917 minority coup being a catastrophe for the ethnic Russian and Ukrainian majority. The Bolshevik leaders were for the most part Jewish and they their used absolute power to put in train the largest slaughter of Christian Europeans that the world has ever seen.

    The tallies attributable to the NKVD (director Genrik Yagoda and deputy Yakov Agranov both Jewish), the Gulag (heads all Jewish: Aron Solts, Yakov Rappoport, Lazar Kogan, Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel ) and the Ukrainian death famine of the winter of 1932-33 (organized by Lazar Kaganovich), each exceeded by millions the Holocaust with the western media to the present day carefully censoring all references.

    The Bolshevik leaders were for the most part Jewish and they their used absolute power to put in train the largest slaughter of Christian Europeans that the world has ever seen.

    yes, and they will not relent

    hence the immigration inundation of all Christian Europeans until there are no more Christian Europeans.

    they got the flower of Europa to commit massive fratricide in the last century

    in this one they want to use immigration to finish the job

    War, strife, death and misery in the last century, and war, strife death and misery in this one too

    charming people

    but who’s worse? those who non-Christian Europeans who want to genocide the Europeans off the planet, or those Europeans who take shekels to help get the job done?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDU9V579g74

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  167. @Harold Smith
    Why would you "have nothing but contempt for Nazis"? The Nazis were not the monsters you imply that they were.

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved, against the same demonic forces that confront us today with an impending WW3.

    BTW General George Patton apparently realized as much after the war was over and was accordingly and promptly assassinated.

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved,

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

    I guess because the world is still fighting the same international bankers and tribal supremacists, who’re still trying to pound a stake though the heart of Western civilization (and the Muslim world), and finish the job they started in the last century?

    Read More
    • Agree: Stonehands
    • Replies: @Harold Smith

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)
     
    As I see it, Germany was forced into a war it didn't want. The beast lured Hitler into Poland just like it lured Japan to Pearl Harbor, Saddam Hussein into Kuwait and just like it is trying to lure Russia into Ukraine and Syria.

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/id570.html

    I think the problem was not "hubris" but rather a form of "naivety" or "stupidity". Hitler made some serious mistakes of judgment, e.g., letting the allied army escape at Dunkirk.

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.
     
    But by then the Germans knew the war with America was coming anyway, whether they wanted it or not, just like the Russians realize today that a war with America is coming, whether they want it or not.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.
     
    Just like Russia (and other countries) today try to make deals with Washington, even though they know that Obama et al. are fiends. Just like the whole world is coming to hate America and see Americans as "untermenschen", because America has now become the main host for the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist beast, just as was Russia before it.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.
     
    Not "arrogance". How could they have avoided war? The Jews would not stop. Could Saddam Hussein or Assad or Putin have avoided what happened since WW2? I think not.

    "For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." -- Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Arme'e Allemande" by Jacques Benoist--Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303)."
     

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high
     
    .

    I agree completely.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

     

    You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?
    , @L.K
    Rurik,
    Harold Smith has already offered a perfect reply to your post, but I still cannot believe you would write stuff like:

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.
     
    None of what you wrote is even remotely true, nichts, nada!
    On the contrary, the N.S leadership understood the US threat very well & did its best to ignore the various US provocations. Including aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in violation of American neutrality and international law, US acts of war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke conflict, etc.
    In fact, they knew that the FDR admin. was already trying to cook up a war in Europe as early as 1938, i.e, b4 the war had even started.
  168. @Avery
    {If the acts of the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany at the end of the war doesn’t prove that the Nazis were right about them, and that they were indeed sub-human rapists and murderous, cruel drooling goons, then truth is meaningless.}

    Spoken like a true Nazi apologist and revisionist.
    Poor, poor misunderstood Hitler.
    Poor, poor misunderstood Nazis.
    They just had to invade SU and kill and murder 10s of million of people.

    If the Red Army had behaved anywhere near the behaviour of Nazi invaders, there would be no Germany left. Nazi Germans fully intended and planned to exterminate all Slavs to make room for their Lebensraum to be populated by the alleged 'Master' race.

    There was no German military left in 1945.
    The insane Nazis were sending children to take on T-34s.
    Germany was completely at the mercy of the Red Army.
    They could have wiped out every last German if they wanted to.

    You talk about rapes.
    What did the Nazi invaders do to the Russian women, bring them flowers?

    Nazi invaders killed and murdered ~10 million Soviet citizens, overwhelmingly Slavs, causing the deaths of ~25 million Soviet citizens total.

    {That millions of innocent, harmless farmers were systematically starved to death...}

    Read about the 2+ year Siege of Leningrad by Nazi sub-human murderers and genocidal, cruel drooling goons. Read about the Hell the civilians went through. The slow, cruel starvation....

    [[NKVD files report the first use of human meat as food on 13 December 1941.The report outlines thirteen cases which range from a mother smothering her eighteen-month-old to feed her three older children to a plumber killing his wife to feed his sons and nieces.

    By December 1942, the NKVD arrested 2,105 cannibals dividing them into two legal categories: corpse-eating (trupoyedstvo) and person-eating (lyudoyedstvo). The latter were usually shot while the former were sent to prison. The Soviet Criminal Code had no provision for cannibalism so all convictions were carried out under Code Article 59–3, "special category banditry".

    Instances of person-eating were significantly lower than that of corpse-eating; of the 300 people arrested in April 1942 for cannibalism, only 44 were murderers.64% of cannibals were female, 44% were unemployed, 90% were illiterate, 15% were rooted inhabitants, and only 2% had any criminal records. More cases occurred in the outlying districts than the city itself. Cannibals were often unsupported women with dependent children and no previous convictions, which allowed for a certain level of clemency in legal proceedings.

    Given the scope of mass starvation, cannibalism was relatively rare. Far more common was murder for ration cards. In the first six months of 1942, Leningrad witnessed 1,216 such murders. At the same time, Leningrad was experiencing its highest casualty rate, as high as 100,000 people per month. Lisa Kirschenbaum notes "that incidents of cannibalism provided an opportunity for emphasizing that the majority of Leningraders managed to maintain their cultural norms in the most unimaginable circumstances."] (from Wiki)

    A small sample of what Nazis wrought in SU.

    the (very real) suffering that happened in Leningrad was due to the exigencies of war. Not a deliberate agenda of sadistic cruelty for its own sake. Just like the way the Germans forbid rape and the Soviets encouraged it. Night vs day.

    That men will rape during war is one of the hapless failings of our gender and species, but that a government would encourage such a thing, proves them to be monsters.

    I don’t try to dismiss the atrocities that the Nazis committed, I only point out that their enemies were worse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Just like the way the Germans forbid rape and the Soviets encouraged it}

    OK: what is your evidence that Soviets encouraged it?

    Books by WW2 revisionist British authors (e.g. Anthony Beevor) are not convincing for me.

    One reason being, Brits want to 'promote' the mass rape meme, so that their real, documented war crimes against German civilians are not talked about. The most heinous, of course, being the firebombing of Dresden, where up to 100,000 German civilians, including an unknown number of children, were murdered by UK and US AFs. Boiled alive.

    Also, a recent book by German author claims Americans, English, and French raped close to 1 million German women.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20150305/book-world-war-ii-allied-soldiers-raped-nearly-1mil-germans
    {A German historian estimates in a new book that French, British and American soldiers raped 860,000 Germans at and after the end of the Second World War, including 190,000 sexual assaults by American soldiers.}

    That claim was naturally ridiculed by US, UK, etc and swept under the rug.
    I don't know either way, but British claims about what Soviets did is extremely suspicious to me.

    And here is a rebuttal by UNZ contributor A. Karlin. Karlin is Russian (i.e. possibly biased) and I don't think he is a professional historian, but his rebuttal is sound (to me).

    [Translation: The Red Army “Rape of Germany” was Invented by Goebbels]
    http://akarlin.com/2013/05/red-army-rape-myth/

    btw: {the (very real) suffering that happened in Leningrad was due to the exigencies of war. }

    Pretty nice, revisionist way to classify the deliberate war-crime starving of the civilian population of Leningrad by invading Nazis as war 'exigence'.

    Maybe the firebombing of Dresden was also - you know - 'war exigence'?

    , @Avery
    {... the way the Germans forbid rape ...}


    Not according to this historian, Omer Bartov :

    https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Army-Soldiers-Oxford-Paperbacks/dp/0195079035/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476157940&sr=8-1&keywords=book+omer+bartov

    {….the war in the East offered the German soldier endless opportunities for committing authorized and unauthorized acts of murder and destruction, robbery and plunder, rape and torture, for which he was rarely punished and not infrequently praised by his superiors. }
  169. @Rurik

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved,
     
    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren't a real threat, perhaps that's why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.

    I know the world's PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you're dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

    I guess because the world is still fighting the same international bankers and tribal supremacists, who're still trying to pound a stake though the heart of Western civilization (and the Muslim world), and finish the job they started in the last century?

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)

    As I see it, Germany was forced into a war it didn’t want. The beast lured Hitler into Poland just like it lured Japan to Pearl Harbor, Saddam Hussein into Kuwait and just like it is trying to lure Russia into Ukraine and Syria.

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/id570.html

    I think the problem was not “hubris” but rather a form of “naivety” or “stupidity”. Hitler made some serious mistakes of judgment, e.g., letting the allied army escape at Dunkirk.

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.

    But by then the Germans knew the war with America was coming anyway, whether they wanted it or not, just like the Russians realize today that a war with America is coming, whether they want it or not.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.

    Just like Russia (and other countries) today try to make deals with Washington, even though they know that Obama et al. are fiends. Just like the whole world is coming to hate America and see Americans as “untermenschen”, because America has now become the main host for the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist beast, just as was Russia before it.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.

    Not “arrogance”. How could they have avoided war? The Jews would not stop. Could Saddam Hussein or Assad or Putin have avoided what happened since WW2? I think not.

    “For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany’s ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews.” — Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in “Histoire de l’Arme’e Allemande” by Jacques Benoist–Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).”

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high

    .

    I agree completely.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

    You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.
     
    I agree with this Harold

    and that 98% of the things we are told are lies.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?
     
    I have family members that are Jewish that I love very much. I would not want them sent to any camps, but I would want to see all traitors to this republic (and the principles upon which it was built), tried, and if convicted.. hanged by the neck until their tongues turned purple and they danced their last jig. Jew or Gentile.

    right now 'm in the wait and see mode, but if she gets in, I figure it's all bets are off

    the republic will be over, and I'll be looking for a pleasant place from which to view the unfolding tragedy far away from N. America
    , @Avery
    {You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, .....}

    Yes, and Hitler was Jewish too.
    Jews created Nazi Germany so several million of their tribe would be wiped out.
    Then......this is the best part......Jews would use that fact to create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the murders of Jews that Jews themselves organized.
    , @utu
    Are you sure that the sources from which you got Vladimir Jabotinsky quote are credible?
  170. @L.K
    Interesting RT CrossTalk interview, 'Russia-US relations: Dangerous Escalation';

    At around 0:50, R.T's Peter Lavelle turns to retired CIA veteran, Ray McGovern, with a question re Washington's seemingly irrational position towards Syria;
    McGovern then mentions what he calls.... the "Elephant in the room", i.e., Israel.
    RT Peter Lavelle appears anxious to move on! No follow up questions, eh Peter? Haha

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5fuAUM2BM

    great video L.K.

    I always assume the main motivation for Israel to see Syria ripped apart is for the Golan. But this guy brings up the important part about Hezbollah supplying Lebanon though Syria.

    Last night after watching as much of that sow as I could stand, they had some Republican strategist on talking about how Trump and Pence were at odds over Syria, and then he went into how Aleppo was being occupied by the ‘good’ terrorists, er, I mean ‘rebels”, and that Putin was targeting the “good rebels’ and how that was unacceptable because they were fighting Assad, and all this convoluted lying and dissembling.

    Trump apparently understands what’s going on, while his running mate is either clueless or a whore.

    Everyday we get closer to a tight election with so much at stake gets more dangerous by the day that they might do something incredibly stupid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Hey Rurik,
    Glad you liked the video. You might like the following CrossTalk one as well;
    'White helmets*, really?'
    *( AKA, AL-CIADA with a face lift)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGNzj6rKqI

    @6:45 of the next vid, SyrianGirl shows footage of these creeps, the 'white helmets', waving al-qaeda flags, armed with guns, etc.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_grZK1hqExk

    Netflix even released a "documentary"( a cheap propaganda film) named 'The White Helmets', and I bet people are eating that shit with glee.

    I mention this propaganda gimmick to remind people of the sheer level of LIES that we are regularly fed. The fiend thinks we must be mushroom; kept in the dark & fed BS.
    When it comes to warfare, since the advent of mass media, war propaganda/atrocity propaganda have been fed to unsuspecting fools with regularity, over a 100 years now, & ever more sophisticated.
    Spread the message to those u know.

    Rurik:

    I always assume the main motivation for Israel to see Syria ripped apart is for the Golan. But this guy brings up the important part about Hezbollah supplying Lebanon though Syria.
     
    Well, I had pretty much said that already here at Unz, I think even to you. But then again I ain't a CIA veteran... haha
    The other angle re Israel is that if Syria could be destroyed, Israel might try to flank Hezbs defenses in South Lebanon through Syria.

    Take care
  171. @neutral
    If there is a thermo nuclear war would only America and Russia be hit ? Or would Europe and East Asia also be targets, are there any other areas as well ?

    It would not be surprising to learn that Russian Federation keeps Israel on a cross-hair: Israel totally deserves such treatment considering the warmongering Lobby and the behavior of Israel’ “representatives” in the US Congress and MIC. The problem is that the conflict could start on a low-level of military command, thanks to the US intensifying demonization of Russia. The air of mistrust between two nuclear superpowers is toxic for humanity.

    Read More
  172. @Harold Smith

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)
     
    As I see it, Germany was forced into a war it didn't want. The beast lured Hitler into Poland just like it lured Japan to Pearl Harbor, Saddam Hussein into Kuwait and just like it is trying to lure Russia into Ukraine and Syria.

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/id570.html

    I think the problem was not "hubris" but rather a form of "naivety" or "stupidity". Hitler made some serious mistakes of judgment, e.g., letting the allied army escape at Dunkirk.

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.
     
    But by then the Germans knew the war with America was coming anyway, whether they wanted it or not, just like the Russians realize today that a war with America is coming, whether they want it or not.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.
     
    Just like Russia (and other countries) today try to make deals with Washington, even though they know that Obama et al. are fiends. Just like the whole world is coming to hate America and see Americans as "untermenschen", because America has now become the main host for the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist beast, just as was Russia before it.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.
     
    Not "arrogance". How could they have avoided war? The Jews would not stop. Could Saddam Hussein or Assad or Putin have avoided what happened since WW2? I think not.

    "For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." -- Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Arme'e Allemande" by Jacques Benoist--Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303)."
     

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high
     
    .

    I agree completely.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

     

    You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?

    Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    I agree with this Harold

    and that 98% of the things we are told are lies.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?

    I have family members that are Jewish that I love very much. I would not want them sent to any camps, but I would want to see all traitors to this republic (and the principles upon which it was built), tried, and if convicted.. hanged by the neck until their tongues turned purple and they danced their last jig. Jew or Gentile.

    right now ‘m in the wait and see mode, but if she gets in, I figure it’s all bets are off

    the republic will be over, and I’ll be looking for a pleasant place from which to view the unfolding tragedy far away from N. America

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "but I would want to see all traitors to this republic (and the principles upon which it was built), tried, and if convicted."

    Your republic was built on principles of genocide. To this day, it continues to thrive on, Deceit, Lies, Hypocrisy, Large Scale Thievery and Wanton Murder.

    White folks (all kinds) have been the greatest murderers of all time.

    In other words, "your" patently obvious genocidal and psychopathic urges are ingrained in your race itself.

    It is no wonder that psychopaths have been quite high achievers. You guys prove it.
  173. @Rurik

    Why in the world are gentiles unable to shut the off button on the televitz?
    …Or leave the NY Times to its natural usage as fly swatter/ wee- wee pad?
     
    Stockholm syndrome

    Is it because the men that really matter in their lives, Fathers and Grandfathers, have no oral history of importance to pass on to their progeny other than the minutia of bygone ball games?
     
    “The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

    ~ Orwell

    a 10 point IQ handicap for the goy who genetically lack the mental adroitness and agility of the MSM Svengalis
     
    The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone. It all gets decided by who has the mic. And when the Jews of the world were handed the mic (the Fed), they were given the power to rule, because of the golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules.

    It's not like they're all that smart. Just look at the level of trash coming out of Hollywood. Look at them feebly trying to smear Trump. They own all the media of consequence and all the "respected" politicians and all the newspapers and radio stations and everything, and still all they can do is hurl school playground insults. I wish there were a smart one somewhere just to make it more interesting.

    “The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone…”

    …And they make the most out of it scientifically:

    The pathetic male populations weekend revolves around “watching” instead of participating. The proof is their sitting in front of some giant flat screen T.V. for 3 hours to watch a one hour game.

    The jingoism, the bull***t military presence and flyovers in these Nazi-like televised extravaganzas have everything to do with mass man losing control of himself as he is being subsumed under the totalitarian police state; brainwashed into thinking he is a patriot, too, for supporting the Pentagon- that’s the lead bureaucracy in MORALLY subverting the country [don't forget those Satanic halftime shows] these fools think they are defending- and in the same way professional sports subverts virtually everything good and decent about sports in America.

    This sort of socially engineered mob behavior is inimicable to manliness, but desirable in mass man.

    As Spengler put it, no animal trainer has his animal more under his control, than those who own the media do these trained apes who fancy themselves men…

    P.S.

    The fish rots from the head down.

    The FED must be smashed into a thousand pieces and scattered to the wind.

    You won’t be voting your way out of this hot mess…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    um, OK

    I sort of agree with all that

    but what about Syria and Putin and Assad and Israel and WWIII?

    my advise to Putin is to stand his ground, because if he relents in Syria, they'll be coming for him on Russia proper

    Putin needs to have his Wyatt Earp "No!" moment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yfr_Zj1iU4
    , @mad1
    The pathetic male populations weekend revolves around “watching” instead of participating. The proof is their sitting in front of some giant flat screen T.V. for 3 hours to watch a one hour game.


    Actually the DVR has shown there is only about 25 minutes of action in an average pro football game, it's worse than you thought.
  174. @Stonehands
    "The MSM Svengalis are no smarter than Goebbels. They just have the microphone..."

    ...And they make the most out of it scientifically:

    The pathetic male populations weekend revolves around "watching" instead of participating. The proof is their sitting in front of some giant flat screen T.V. for 3 hours to watch a one hour game.

    The jingoism, the bull***t military presence and flyovers in these Nazi-like televised extravaganzas have everything to do with mass man losing control of himself as he is being subsumed under the totalitarian police state; brainwashed into thinking he is a patriot, too, for supporting the Pentagon- that's the lead bureaucracy in MORALLY subverting the country [don't forget those Satanic halftime shows] these fools think they are defending- and in the same way professional sports subverts virtually everything good and decent about sports in America.

    This sort of socially engineered mob behavior is inimicable to manliness, but desirable in mass man.

    As Spengler put it, no animal trainer has his animal more under his control, than those who own the media do these trained apes who fancy themselves men...


    P.S.

    The fish rots from the head down.

    The FED must be smashed into a thousand pieces and scattered to the wind.

    You won't be voting your way out of this hot mess...

    um, OK

    I sort of agree with all that

    but what about Syria and Putin and Assad and Israel and WWIII?

    my advise to Putin is to stand his ground, because if he relents in Syria, they’ll be coming for him on Russia proper

    Putin needs to have his Wyatt Earp “No!” moment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yfr_Zj1iU4

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stonehands
    Israel doesn't have alliances or recognize treaties in any sense like the US. In fact, energy wise, they have more to gain from "interests" with the Russians -and in certain scenarios might play Washington like the 1 dollar whore they are.
    If Philly is a viable electoral sample, than the white doofuss's overwhelmingly support grandma- disheartening, even though l can sight a dozen clear cut policy differences that are life threatening (including the current contratemps in Syria).
    So, maybe 20 per cent are on board here, like you and l, and would shower Vlad with fragrant rice if he could somehow humiliate severely the MIC...
  175. @Harold Smith
    Why would you "have nothing but contempt for Nazis"? The Nazis were not the monsters you imply that they were.

    Nazi Germany was a defensive entity, fighting for the survival of the Germany that they knew and loved, against the same demonic forces that confront us today with an impending WW3.

    BTW General George Patton apparently realized as much after the war was over and was accordingly and promptly assassinated.

    {Nazi Germany was a defensive entity,…..}

    Of course it was.

    Here is one example: an invading Red Army soldier taken prisoner deep inside the Bavaria, where the Nazi German defense entity, the Wehrmacht, was battling the invading hordes from the East:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-E0406-0022-011,_Russland,_deutscher_Kriegsgefangener.jpg

    Read More
  176. @Harold Smith

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)
     
    As I see it, Germany was forced into a war it didn't want. The beast lured Hitler into Poland just like it lured Japan to Pearl Harbor, Saddam Hussein into Kuwait and just like it is trying to lure Russia into Ukraine and Syria.

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/id570.html

    I think the problem was not "hubris" but rather a form of "naivety" or "stupidity". Hitler made some serious mistakes of judgment, e.g., letting the allied army escape at Dunkirk.

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.
     
    But by then the Germans knew the war with America was coming anyway, whether they wanted it or not, just like the Russians realize today that a war with America is coming, whether they want it or not.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.
     
    Just like Russia (and other countries) today try to make deals with Washington, even though they know that Obama et al. are fiends. Just like the whole world is coming to hate America and see Americans as "untermenschen", because America has now become the main host for the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist beast, just as was Russia before it.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.
     
    Not "arrogance". How could they have avoided war? The Jews would not stop. Could Saddam Hussein or Assad or Putin have avoided what happened since WW2? I think not.

    "For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." -- Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Arme'e Allemande" by Jacques Benoist--Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303)."
     

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high
     
    .

    I agree completely.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

     

    You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?

    {You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, …..}

    Yes, and Hitler was Jewish too.
    Jews created Nazi Germany so several million of their tribe would be wiped out.
    Then……this is the best part……Jews would use that fact to create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the murders of Jews that Jews themselves organized.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harold Smith

    Yes, and Hitler was Jewish too.
     
    No, he wasn't.

    Jews created Nazi Germany so several million of their tribe would be wiped out.

    Jewish treachery created Nazi Germany, just like Jewish treachery created Hezbollah, just like Jewish treachery made enemies out of the survivors of the USS Liberty, etc.

    Jews didn't just demolish the WTC towers, but they defrauded the insurance company and collected the insurance; likewise, Jews didn't just murder Rachel Corrie, but they subsequently plundered her organs; likewise, Jews didn't just destroy Germany, but they defrauded the whole world with their Satanic holocaust mythology.

    http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm


    Then……this is the best part……Jews would use that fact to create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the murders of Jews that Jews themselves organized.


    Actually, the best part is the apparent fact that Jews believe they're going to conquer the world by "giving worth to evil", i.e., by "worshiping Satan".

    But allow me to correct your sentence: "...Jews would use that fact to [help] create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the [alleged] murders of Jews that [to the extent it happened in the first place] Jews themselves [caused].

    BTW General Patton discovered that WW2 was just another Jewish fraud and it cost him his life:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKtb-VLYXAs
    , @Rurik

    Yes, and Hitler was Jewish too.
    Jews created Nazi Germany so several million of their tribe would be wiped out.
     
    no Avery, they didn't create Nazi Germany on purpose, the Nazis were a consequence of Jewish [read Zionist] treachery and genocidal hatred as manifested by their slaughter of the Romanov family, their slaughter of any productive person in Russia after the Bolshevik, [Jewish] take over of that country culminating in the starvation genocide of millions of Ukrainian peasants.

    Unlike your cartoon version, where the Nazis were evil Germans who woke up one day and said, 'hey, lets gas all the Jews because they're inferior', and then goose-stepped into Poland..

    rather the Nazis were a creation of several circumstances, the most significant of which was the vile treachery of the allies following the betrayal of Germany at the end of the first world war.

    [I can't believe I have to explain this even here on the UR]

    where the Germans were promised that if they laid down their arms, they would be treated honorably as per Wilsons Fourteen Points. So they trusted the allies and laid down their arms and then were betrayed and subjected to a mass-starvation campaign and forced to sign Germany's progeny to perpetual debt slavery, and wrongfully blamed for starting the war in the first place, and then to add salt in the wounds, Jewish carpet baggers came from all over the globe to purchase Germanys institutions and then lorded it over her during the infamous Weimar regime- where Germany's young people were treated like prostitutes and her veterans of the war left to beg in the streets.

    all of this is what created Nazi Germany Avery, and perhaps most of all the obvious intention of the world's communists to destroy Germany utterly, with assorted highly placed Jews demanding the final solution to the German people and their castration and elimination.

    Then……this is the best part……Jews would use that fact to create Israel and milk the long suffering German people for the murders of Jews that Jews themselves organized.
     
    Yes, you're right here, that in the end, the good German people who did not run death camps, but did run concentration camps, were in the end, forced by the eternal Jews to participate in a mass-genocide of innocent people (the Palestinians), by having to pay reparations to the genocidal state of Israel

    So they were forced into WWI, and then tried to end that war, only to be betrayed and tricked into signing away the lives of all future Germans, until Hitler brought them out from under the cruel Jewish iron boot, only to have the world's Jews foist yet another war upon Germany and see her destroyed utterly. And she's been lied about and subject to such horrendous maligning and hatred ever since as to benumb the soul of even the most cynical student of history.

    Did the Nazis commit atrocities? Yes. Were they always innocent and noble and honorable? Fuck no. But with relentless avalanche of hysterical lies and Germany bashing and slander and frothing damnation, it's simply necessary to put things into perspective from time to time.
  177. @Harold Smith

    yes but they got taken away with hubris, and look at what that cost them? (and so many others)
     
    As I see it, Germany was forced into a war it didn't want. The beast lured Hitler into Poland just like it lured Japan to Pearl Harbor, Saddam Hussein into Kuwait and just like it is trying to lure Russia into Ukraine and Syria.

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/id570.html

    I think the problem was not "hubris" but rather a form of "naivety" or "stupidity". Hitler made some serious mistakes of judgment, e.g., letting the allied army escape at Dunkirk.

    they considered the Americans dunderheaded mongrels that weren’t a real threat, perhaps that’s why they suicidally declared war on the US.
     
    But by then the Germans knew the war with America was coming anyway, whether they wanted it or not, just like the Russians realize today that a war with America is coming, whether they want it or not.

    They spoke of Slavs as untermenchen, without considering how that would play to the East. They made deals with Stalin, who they knew was a fiend.
     
    Just like Russia (and other countries) today try to make deals with Washington, even though they know that Obama et al. are fiends. Just like the whole world is coming to hate America and see Americans as "untermenschen", because America has now become the main host for the Satanic, messianic, Judeo-communist beast, just as was Russia before it.

    I know the world’s PTB collaborated to rope-a-dope them into a wider war, but they took the bait, and did so out of arrogance.
     
    Not "arrogance". How could they have avoided war? The Jews would not stop. Could Saddam Hussein or Assad or Putin have avoided what happened since WW2? I think not.

    "For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." -- Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Arme'e Allemande" by Jacques Benoist--Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303)."
     

    After WWI, they should have understood the absolute treachery of Perfidious Albion, but yet they let the British army go at Dunkirk, as a gesture of peace. How can you expect an honorable gesture be met with honorable reciprocation when you’re dealing with soulless dogs?!

    So many mistakes and errors of judgment and when the stakes were so very high
     
    .

    I agree completely.

    (And personally I hate fascism, and anyone demanding that I toe the line).

    But I do agree that the enemies of Nazism were worse than the Nazis, for sheer genocidal hatred and cruelty

    ~ why do these discussions always turn to such topics?

     

    You seem to forget that Nazi Germany itself was the result of Jewish treachery against Germany. Basically Nazi Germany was a Jewish creation, just like Hezbollah and Hamas (and ISIS, Al Queda, etc.) are Jewish creations.

    How will you feel about the tribe after they finally succeed in bringing the missiles down on us, destroying the world as we knew it? I wonder, would you treat the remainder of the tribe with dignity and respect, or would you want them in camps?

    Are you sure that the sources from which you got Vladimir Jabotinsky quote are credible?

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    • Replies: @Harold Smith

    Are you sure that the sources from which you got Vladimir Jabotinsky quote are credible?

     

    I believe that they are but I can't say that I'm "sure" of it.

    One thing I am sure of however, is that there are so many statements by so many influential Jews in the same time period which are basically communicating the same thing, i.e., the Jewish collective demands the destruction of Germany and is declaring war on Germany accordingly, that it really wouldn't matter one way or the other.