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Russian Military Options in Syria and the Ukraine
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The past two weeks have been rich in military developments directly affecting Russia:

Syria:

1) Russia has announced that she will transform the Khmeimim airfield into a full-fledged military base with a permanently deployed task force.

2) Russia will deploy her heavy aircraft-carrying missile cruiser (often referred to in the West as an “aircraft carrier”) Admiral Kuznetsov to the eastern Mediterranean to to check the combat capabilities of the ship and its strike group and to engage, for the very first time, the state-of-the-art Ka-52K Katran helicopters.

The Ukraine:

1) Following the failure of the Ukronazis to infiltrate saboteurs on the Crimean Peninsula ,which President Putin called “stupid and criminal”,Poroshenko has now ordered a reinforcement of his military forces on border with Crimea and eastern Ukraine and placed its military on its highest alert.

2) The authorities in Kiev decided not to accept the credentials of the new Russian ambassador to the Ukraine.

3) President Putin declared that in this context, negotiations with Kiev are “pointless”.

While not directly connected, all of these news items point to a possible military escalation which could result in Russia having to engaged her military in combat operations in Syria, Crimea and Novorussia. Thus is makes sense at this point to review the Russian options in all these theaters of war.

The Syrian theater:

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the Russian military options in Syria. Just as the major Russian military intervention which was initially expected failed to materialize (the actual Russian intervention was very limited in both size and time), the reinforcement of the Khmeimim airbase will not result in a major strategic shift in the regional balance of power. A couple of reminders:

First, the Russian naval base at Tartus is not really a “naval base” at all. It is a port which the Russian Navy has been using, but it lack the capability to dock large ships and it is not defended in a way a normal Russian military base would be. In fact, the Russian refer to it as a “пункт материально-технического обеспечения“ or “material-technical supply point”. It is possible, even likely, that in time Russia will expand and reinforce Tartus, but for the foreseeable future Tartus will not be a major military outpost for the Russian Navy.

Second, the airbase in Khmeimin is located in a very dangerous spot: roughly 1000km from the Russian border and only 50km from the Turkish border. It is also nicely wedged right between the CENTCOM “area of responsibility” and NATO. This is most definitely not a location you want to try to threaten US forces from. Finally, this is also not a location which Russia would defend with nuclear forces.

Defense Minister Shoigu did, in fact, clearly spell out what the purpose of the Russian presence in Khmeimim will be: a) to attack terrorists and b) to defend Russian nationals. Again, these are very limited goals which will be attained by using limited means. To be sure, Khmeimim will also become a crucial intelligence hub for Russia and, once the airbase is expanded, the Russian search and rescue capabilities will be dramatically enhanced. For both of these task Russian special forces will be permanently stationed at the airbase. Finally, the Russians will increase the size of the runways to make it accessible to the heaviest Russian transport aircraft. But the fundamental characteristic of the Khmeimim airbase will always remind that it will remain vulnerable due to its location and long distance from Russia.

As for the deployment of the Kuznetsov, which is primarily a formidable air defense ship, it will allow the Russians to get a much fuller signal intelligence picture of the region and will provide solid protection for both Tartus and Khmeimim. The first-time deployment of the Ka-52K (which were initially commissioned to be deployed on the French “Mistrals”) will be a testing side show but not a crucial game changer in the war.

All in all, the Russians are most definitely increasing their capabilities and the range of options to chose from different options depending on the evolution of the situation. At this point, there are no signs of a major shift in the Russian position: ever since the “semi-withdrawal” of Russian Aerospace forces from Syria, Russia is still counting primarily on her long-rage bombers (Tu-22M3). These can, if needed, be supplemented by Su-34/Su-30/Su-35 strike groups flying out of southern Russia.

The Ukrainian theater:

The situation in the Ukraine is much more unpredictable than the one in Syria and it has been so for a long while now. Almost every week we saw warnings about a possible Ukrainian attack, sometimes even announced as “imminent” and then that attack fails to materialize. The dangerous thing about these false warnings is that they were not false at all and that these attacks truly could have happened almost any week. Worst of all, there is now a “boy who cried wolf” phenomenon taking place where everybody is becoming bored with the endless warnings about an imminent Ukronazi attack. The problem is that, of course, such attack is becoming more and more likely with every passing day.

ORDER IT NOW

There are those who argue that an Ukronazi attack against Crimea would be suicidal, and they are absolutely correct, and that an Ukronazi attack against Novorussia would be exceedingly unlikely to succeed, and they are correct again. The assumption here is that the regime in Kiev is capable of rational calculation and that the purpose of such an attack would be victory. But, in reality, victory was never a Ukronazi goal. Instead, the goal was always to draw Russia into a open war. The Ukronazis themselves are deluding themselves in the hope that they will get to do what the Croats did in 1995 when they, backed by the full airpower of NATO, attacked the (disarmed) Croatian Serbs in the so-called “Krajinas”. In reality, the situation in the Donbass is totally different: not only are the Novorussians not disarmed like the Krajina Serbs were (all their “heavy weapons” were in UNPROFOR controlled depots), but unlike the poor Serbs (who were betrayed by Milosevic), the Novorussians know that if things get tough Russia will back them, including by deniable long-range artillery strikes (as she did in July 2014). As for Crimea, even the most deluded Ukrainians must realize by now, even if they don’t admit this, that they will never re-take Crimea.

The problem for Russia is that while the regime in Kiev is slowly rotting into irrelevance, there is only one thing which the Ukraine can offer the AngloZionist Empire: to become the sacrificial lamb in a desperate effort to provoke Russian into an intervention and thereby make the current “tepid war” between NATO and Russia fully irreversible or even “hot”. An overt Russian counter-attack in the Donbass, or even from Crimea, is every Neocon’s dream come true.

So far, all the Ukronazis were capable of doing is constantly shelling the civilians of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics which, being 100% dependent on Moscow, had to put up with this infamy even though scores of innocents civilians have been killed every day. There is also a lot of indirect evidence that the military capabilities of the Novorussians have dramatically increased over the past year or so and that makes it even more frustrating for them to put up with the constant provocations and murders of civilians. The Kremlin, however, has evidently decided that a small and steady stream of murdered civilians in the Donbass is still preferable to a full-scale military operation followed by, and this is often overlooked, the occupation of some part of the Ukrainian territory. Indeed, once you occupy it – you own it and you are responsible for it. Nobody in Russia is willing to shoulder the costs of a war and the subsequent occupation and reconstruction of a territory currently under Ukronazi control. Finally, why give the regime in Kiev a life-saving distraction when it does such a world-class job of slowly but surely destroying itself?

The paradox here is that the Russian strength is also the Russian weakness: chances are that the Novorussians are capable of not only stopping a Ukronazi attack, but even of an operationally deep counter-attack. Thus, it is most likely that Russia herself would not be pulled into an overt war over the Donbass. But in Crimea there are no Novorussians, no Donetsk or Lugansk people’s republics. In Crimea there are only Russians and Crimea is Russia. Thus any Ukronazi attack on Crimea would be a direct act of war against Russia which Russia could not ignore or reply to by using a “voentorg” + “northern wind” combo (voentorg: covert supplying of weapons; “northern wind” covert supplying of military specialists). If Crimea is attacked, the Russians will have to strike back, whether they want it or not.

If that happens, the Russian counter-strike will most likely be limited and will probably focus on the forces directly responsible for the attack. But if the Ukronazis use their artillery from well-entrenched positions to unleash a steady barrage on the towns of northern Crimea or if, God forbid, the Ukronazis use ballistic missiles to target major urban centers in Crimea, the Russians will have no choice but to counter-attack swiftly and decisively. And since 8/8/8 it is become clear that the West will *always* blame Russia, even if she is first attacked by another party.

In purely military terms, any conflict between the Russian armed forces and the Ukronazis would be a massacre: all the Ukrainians can bring to the battlefield are numbers, but they are completely out-gunned, quantitatively and, even more so, qualitatively by the Russians. The Russian artillery is currently the most capable on the planet, it is even far superior to anything in the West, and its effects on the Ukrainian military have been absolutely devastating in the past. Russia has an unique combination of UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) and EW (Electronic Warfare) capabilities which are directly plugged-in into the targeting systems of Russian multiple-rocket launchers which can reach as far as 90km into the enemy’s rear. Finally, the Russians have been working for years on advanced submunitions and thermobaric warheads which can be used with devastating effect on armored forces and fortified positions.

This combo of UAV and advanced multiple-rocket launchers form what the Russians call a “reconnaissance-strike complex” or RSC (разведывательно-ударный комплекс) which is a concept first developed by the Soviets as far back as the 1960s. The RSC fully integrates all the following elements: reconnaissance, guidance, electronic counter-measures, navigation and engagement of high-precision weapons.

Now, with the advent of new UAV and counter-battery radars, this concept has reached its full maturity and is now the cornerstone of Russian combined-arms operations. What this all means in practical terms is that the Russians now have the capability completely destroy several mechanized battalions in only 2-3 minutes. And there is nothing, nothing at all, which the Ukrainians could do against this.

The Russians also have vastly superior armor, electronic warfare capabilities, aerospace forces, intelligence and reconnaissance capabilities, training – you name it. The Ukrainians don’t stand a chance.

One big canard is the notion that US deliveries of “lethal weapons” to the Ukraine would somehow tip the balance. In reality, no amount of weapons would make any difference. Russian capabilities today are as far superior to the Ukrainian ones as the capabilities of the US military were superior to the Iraqi military in 1990 during Desert Storm. While in 1991 the Ukrainian military was nominally larger than the Russian one (the Ukraine inherited the entire Soviet strategic 2nd echelon forces), it did not have a war in Chechnia to force it to begin reorganizing like the Russian one had to, nor did it have a President like Putin who as soon as he came to power embarked on an immense military reform whose fruits are now finally showing. As a result, the Russians have now achieved several generational breakthroughs while the Ukrainians are basically stuck with 1980s gear and a completely disorganized, corrupt and incompetent military. It will take the Ukraine decades to catch-up to the Russians, and that only if some kind of highly improbable economic miracle happens.

Conclusion:

The wars in the Syria and the Ukraine are, as is so often the case, largely predetermined by geography. There is really nothing Russia could do to meaningfully and directly oppose the US military in the Middle-East or the Mediterranean. Likewise, there is nothing the US can to meaningfully and directly oppose the Russian armed forces in eastern Ukraine. This is why both sides will try to act indirectly, on the margins, via proxies but without getting directly exposed. While this strategy is fundamentally sound, it is also dangerous because indirect warfare by proxy is harder to control and leaves both sides open to provocations, false flag operations and the covert involvement of third parties. This is why both wars are so frustrating to follow: on one hand all sorts of highly speculative scenarios cannot be simply dismissed, but on the other hand, nothing much seems to be happening. And when something finally does happen, it is unclear as to what the possible consequences might be. Finally, both wars involve highly ideological and fundamentally irrational actors (the Ukronazis, the Daesh crazies, the Neocons) who cannot be counted on to act rationally. Alas, all the theories of deterrence always assume a rational actor. But how do you deter a delusional maniac?

The Russian options in both of these conflicts are limited by objective circumstances and by larger political considerations. I would argue that Russia has done an absolutely amazing job in Syria with very limited means and in a supremely dangerous environment. As for the Donbass, I would be much more nuanced. And while I do believe that Russia took the right decision by not overtly sending her armed forces in the eastern Ukraine, I also have to admit that she also showed poor timing and even indecision in dealing with the Nazi crazies in Kiev: it took the Russians a long time to get the Voentorg and “Northern Wind” up and running and while this was the correct response, it was also one which took a long time to become fully effective. Then there is the issue of the (now former) Russian ambassador to Kiev, Mikhail Zurabov, who was totally ineffective in getting anything done at all (while he was left in place for so long is still a mystery to me). True, Zurabov had nobody to speak to, but that does not justify him cozying up and playing buddies with Poroshenko as he reportedly did. Now that the Russians have finally appointed a competent person to this role, Mikhail Babich, the Ukrainians are refusing to accredit him which, apparently, the Kremlin is accepting with bizarre equanimity. In December, Putin also appointed another very powerful figure, Boris Gryzlov, a permanent member of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, as the plenipotentiary representative of the Russian Federation in the Contact Group on settlement of the situation in Ukraine. It took Russia a very long time, but now with Gryzlov and Babich involved, Russia is finally involving some high octane personalities in the negotiations process dealing with the war in the Ukraine. Again, a good decision, but a very belated one.

Could this also indicate that the Russians have information that something major will happen with the Ukraine? Possibly. I sure don’t know, but it does look to me that they are preparing for something.

As for Syria, the Russian are trying to increase their options, but it is unlikely that anything major happens before the next US administration comes in. Besides, with Erdogan still busy with his crackdown on any opposition, it is also unclear what course Turkey will take once the purges are completed.

And then this, just in:

According to al Masdar news (https://www.almasdarnews.com), Iran has just granted Russia the right to use the Hamedan Air Base in western Iran. The original article entitled “Russia deploys jets at Iranian Airbase to combat insurgents in Syria (Pictures)” (https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/russia-deploys-jets-iranian-airbase-combat-insurgents-syria-pictures/) even claims to show pictures of Russian Tu-22M3s already deployed in Iran. IF this is true, this is very significant. Unlike Khmeimim, Hamedan is safe and is perfectly located to conduct military strikes in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle-East. One problem though: al Masdar is an Israeli project, part the Israel Project, a “pro-Israel public diplomacy organization founded in the United States at the height of the second intifada”. I checked with a well-informed Iranian source, and it is not confirming any of this at this time. The Russian blogger “Colonel Cassad”, however, did some investigating of his own and seems to consider that information as plausible. Other Russian sources are confirming that Russia has asked Iran to allow Russian cruise missiles to fly through Iranian airspace. It does appear like the collaboration between Iran and Russia is strengthening which is, of course, very good news.

Finally, if Erdogan is serious about collaborating with Russia and Iran against Daesh, then one way for Turkey to do that would be to open the Turkish airspace to Russian air and missile strikes against Daesh. If that happens, Russia will have the choice of four locations to launch strikes: Crimea, southern Russia (Abkhazia), Khmeimim in Syria and, hopefully, Hamedan in Iran.

Bombora Military Airport

Bombora Military Airport

A place to keep a special eye on is the Bombora military airfield near Gudauta, in Abkhazia. According to Lentra.ru, the length of the main runway is 4km (this is a mistake, the actual length is 3km) and this runway ends right on the seashore allowing aircraft to take off at very low altitudes and thereby remain under enemy radar coverage (see image next page). This airfield is currently protected by some 4’000 Russian soldiers deployed in Abkhazia who are equipped by the newest Russian weapon systems and who form the backbone of the Russian 7th Base [for more on this base, see here (from and anti-Russian source) and here (including some pretty interesting photographs)]. This airfield is ideally located to become a major hub for the operations of Russian Aerospace forces.

UPDATE:

First, as Aram Mirzaei correctly pointed out, I made a mistake and confused two websites called Al-Masdar (the source):One is the Israeli project mentioned in this article, led by chief editor Shimrit Meir. This website is called Al-Masdar.net. The other page is a pro-Syrian-Iranian-Russian news website called almasdarnews.com. I apologize for this mistake.

Second, it seems that almasdarnews.com is correct. Several Iranian websites are now also reporting the Russian deployment at the Hamedan Air Base:

http://www.eghtesadonline.com/بخش-جهان-29/140628-استقرار-بمب-افکن-های-روسی-در-پایگاه-هوایی-همدان-عکس

http://www.akharinnews.com/آخرین_اخبار/item/112646-بمب-افکن-های-روسیه-وارد-فرودگاه-نظامی-همدان-شدند.html

http://damadam.ir/۲۴-آنلاین-24onlinenews/اخبار-سیاسی/title/بمب-افکن-های-روسیه-وارد-فرودگاه-نظامی-همدان-شدند/id/3321242

RT is now also quoting the Al Masdar article thus indirectly confirming it: https://www.rt.com/news/356098-russian-bombers-iran-hamadan/

This is an extremely important and positive development which shows that the military cooperation between Russia and Iran has now reached a new level and which will have a major impact upon this war. This is very, very good news.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Russia, Syria, Ukraine 
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  1. […] Written by The Saker; Originally appeared at The Unz Review […]

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  2. […] Written by The Saker; Originally appeared at The Unz Review […]

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  3. [Now that the Russians have finally appointed a competent person to this role, Mikhail Babich, the Ukrainians are refusing to accredit him which, apparently, the Kremlin is accepting with bizarre equanimity]

    I’m not aware of any provision in international custom that compels a government to accept another’s choice of ambassador. What does it matter anyway? Knock yourselves out, svidomites, live without a Russian ambassador! I find the equanimity easily understandable.

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  4. Still can’t bring yourself to pry yourself away from Putin’s lies on Ukraine. The business in Crimea has already been shown to be some of Putin’s “military contractors” shooting at Russian troops. Ukraine infiltrated no one. But keep believing that myth if you like.

    Ukraine has no reason to accept an intelligence officer as the Russian ambassador. In fact, they are right not to accept his credentials since they are a lie.

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    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Really ridiculous propaganda, but keep up the nonsense, it's entertaining drivel.
    , @attonn
    Ukraine will accept whatever Moscow tells it to accept. It's just a matter of time. Every year 200k Ukies are moving to Russia, and that's on top of 200k net annual die-off due to deaths exceeding births. Even calling it a basket case would be too generous.
    Ukraine is simply disappearing right in front of us. It's a national suicide.
    Few more years, and Kiev becomes a ghost town surrounded by weeds.
    , @Hunsdon
    Do you have a link, or are these simply assertions on your part? If you have a link, I'd love to see it, and promise to go read it attentively.
    , @annamaria
    "...scores of innocents civilians have been killed every day..."
    Do you understand this? Or your Jewish/Ukrainian mother taught you that only Jewish life is sacred?
    Synopsis: Ukraine is dying and the US ziocons are trying to extract from the useless Ukrainians another drop of blood in order to saddle Russian Federation with a war (could become a hot war). The State Dept imbeciles, guided by ruling plutocracy (the FedReserve cartel and main war profiteers) and ziocon dreams, have been in full cooperation with Ukrainian neo-Nazis (hello, Holocaust!) and Al Qaeda (Daesh, IS, ISIS, moderate jihadis - you name it). You see, the US moral fiber shines and blinds.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/329010-ukraine-neo-nazis-aid/
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/The-Nazis-Even-Hitler-was-by-George-Eliason-Exile_Genocide_Hitler-Brownshirts_Hitler-Youth-140316-321.html
    http://www.ronpaul.com/2015-08-08/us-intelligence-confirms-us-support-for-isis/
  5. The West tried and failed to kill Erdogan. The Russians saved his bacon. Or at least this is one of the stories I am hearing. If Erdogan will give up his war on Syria and close the border the war will be over.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    "The West" didn't try to kill Erdogan. That is Erdogan regime propaganda, to get the support of the Islamonationalistic and plain nationalistic Turkish populace behind him as he completes purging the opposition and consolidating absolute power. The coup attempt against Erdogan was carried out by a small group of desperate secular army officers; and failed abysmally because of lack of organization and insufficient internal and external support.

    "If Erdogan will give up his war on Syria and close the border the war will be over"

    That's a mighty big "IF", right there... So far, SINCE the coup attempt, it seems to be the exact opposite: Erdogan regime support for the jihadis in Syria has held steady and even INCREASED. The success of the jihadi offensive against Syrian forces in Aleppo a week ago would not have been possible without support - men, weapons, supplies - from Turkey.
    , @anti_republocrat
    Yes, that's one of the stories, but there are other possibilities that seem quite probable given developments of the past week. The coup might have been a false flag operation carried out by Erdogan himself, or a joint Erdogan-CIA operation, in either case pre-leaked to the Russians so they could "warn" Erdogan of something he knew about and in fact helped plan. This could have been a setup to get Putin and Assad to trust Erdogan, so they would allow Turkey to violate Syrian territory. It's going to be very difficult to dislodge Turkey and its jihadist allies from Jarabula and Manbij. So now the ISIS supply lines will be secure.

    At the same time, things were looking quite hopeful as far as closing the Turkish border while the Syrian Kurds and Assad were genuinely working together. The SAA and SDF were working quite well together in northeast Aleppo province to cut jihadi supply lines there, and SDF also helped with closing off the Costello Road. The US never wanted the Kurds to attack westward, across the Euphrates, because that was a genuine threat to all jihadi groups. They wanted the Kurds to attack south toward Raqqa. Here's a McClatchy article from a year ago explaining the divergent goals of SDF/YPG and the US: https://web.archive.org/web/20160202175101/http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/middle-east/article41559747.html

    So now what has happened? The US used its air power to help the YPG bleed itself in liberating Manbij, but after Kurdish fighters were sacrificed to liberate that city, they were ordered to give ISIS safe passage out. Then, the US encouraged Asayish to attack the SAA in Hasakeh, creating animosity between Kurds and Syrians, who until then had been coordinating well, and further encouraging Syria, Iraq, Iran and Russia to accept Turkey as a full partner. Now, the US has ordered them to withdraw to the East Bank of the Euphrates, to be replaced by Turkey and the FSA!! Unless Putin and Assad wake up quickly from their dream of Turkey switching sides and the Kurds also wake up from their wet dream of Rojava, Erdogan will gain effective control of all northern Syria, allowing him to suppress Kurds on both sides of the border, and the ISIS/jihadi supply lines through Jarabalus and Manbij will be intact, allowing continued Turkish participation in the dissolution of Syria. The "there will be no Kurdish state" mantra "unifying" Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey will be turned into "the Kurds will become part of the neo-Ottoman Empire.

    Putin and Assad need to prevent Turkey/FSA from taking Manbij. If SDF/YPG leadership shows signs of following US orders, they need to encourage the already rampant defection of SDF members (including non-stupid Kurds) into NDF and get NDF leaders to commit to defending Manbij until the situation in Aleppo is resolved.

  6. Hmm and just what are Putin’s lies on the Crimea and no not some abstract article out of the Western press or NATO for in reality they are one and the same,what we do know is we spent some 5 billion dollars to overthrow an elected president in a coup what we do know is Vicky’s famous saying “Fuck the EU Yats is our man”, a quartermaster is one who issues supplies but in your case the supplies seem to be useless propaganda.!!!

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen


    "we spent some 5 billion dollars to overthrow an elected president" Bullshit. That's not what Nuland said. That's not what happened. The US spent $5Bn setting up some kind of functioning country in Ukraine. Laws, lawyers, business training, VC funds, scholarshps, breadmaking and distribution, decommissionng nukes, Chernobyl clean up etc etc. In Russia, the US spent $10 Bn, the EU $10Bn and the UK and Germany $5Bn each. You are soft headed or a Russian propaganda agent, if an unpaid volunteer, both.
  7. Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it’s fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn’t worth a single Russian life. Focus on defending the Ukraine, offer RF citizenship to the “Novorussians” instead of continuing to fight for secession, that would offset some of the Muslim immigration and improve relations with Ukraine.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    Russian involvement in Syria is not about "poking the US and its proxies in the eye" just for the heck of it. If the secular Syrian regime is overthrown and Syria falls to the jihadis, then (in addition to the slaughter of untold numbers of secular/moderate people and minorities) soon afterwards Syria will turn into Jihadi Central: a training and staging area for jihadis being sent to attack Russia (and probably China, Central Asia and Iran too).
    , @RadicalCenter
    No, if Russia is pressured, shamed, or intimidated into withdrawing from Syria, the US government and its vassals will just push further for geographical, resource, and economic control, into Russia itself as circumstances permit.

    As a proud American who distrusts both the US government and the Russian government, I can see that "my" government has the resources, the propaganda machine, the reserve currency, etc., to do more damage to the lives and liberty of the world's people than Russia does.
    , @The Alarmist

    "Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it’s fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn’t worth a single Russian life. "
     
    You seem to have missed the point that the loss of Assad would allow for pipelines to be built through Syria from the Arabian Peninsula to Europe, and thereby allow for Russia's sales of energy products to Europe to be undercut by the US's paymasters. Seen in that context, the current geopolitical alignments make perfect sense.
    , @annamaria
    "Russia needs to withdraw from Syria..."
    Look at the map: http://www.globalresearch.ca/plans-for-redrawing-the-middle-east-the-project-for-a-new-middle-east/3882
    , @Philip Owen


    But, certainly prior to the insurgency, there were more people identifying as Ukrainians than Russians in Donbass. Yes, some mining villages around Lugansk scored 90% Russian and Gorlivka had a lot of Russians but the city centres and countryside were Ukrainian. Taking over Donbass by offering citizenship South Ossetian style, wouldn't work. It wasn't a locally generated uprising. Orthodox fascists from Serbia to Estonia turned up to provoke it into life. Novorossiya was very Sputnik i Pogrom in conception.
  8. @WorkingClass
    The West tried and failed to kill Erdogan. The Russians saved his bacon. Or at least this is one of the stories I am hearing. If Erdogan will give up his war on Syria and close the border the war will be over.

    “The West” didn’t try to kill Erdogan. That is Erdogan regime propaganda, to get the support of the Islamonationalistic and plain nationalistic Turkish populace behind him as he completes purging the opposition and consolidating absolute power. The coup attempt against Erdogan was carried out by a small group of desperate secular army officers; and failed abysmally because of lack of organization and insufficient internal and external support.

    “If Erdogan will give up his war on Syria and close the border the war will be over”

    That’s a mighty big “IF”, right there… So far, SINCE the coup attempt, it seems to be the exact opposite: Erdogan regime support for the jihadis in Syria has held steady and even INCREASED. The success of the jihadi offensive against Syrian forces in Aleppo a week ago would not have been possible without support – men, weapons, supplies – from Turkey.

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  9. @Marcus
    Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it's fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn't worth a single Russian life. Focus on defending the Ukraine, offer RF citizenship to the "Novorussians" instead of continuing to fight for secession, that would offset some of the Muslim immigration and improve relations with Ukraine.

    Russian involvement in Syria is not about “poking the US and its proxies in the eye” just for the heck of it. If the secular Syrian regime is overthrown and Syria falls to the jihadis, then (in addition to the slaughter of untold numbers of secular/moderate people and minorities) soon afterwards Syria will turn into Jihadi Central: a training and staging area for jihadis being sent to attack Russia (and probably China, Central Asia and Iran too).

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    I see your point, but then it would be as much a problem for the US' allies (Israel, Turkey, Jordan, KSA) as it would for Russia's: jihadis can't be controlled. As sad as it would be to see Syria's ancient Christian and other communities be forced out, I don't think the situation can be remedied without unjustifiable Russian losses.
  10. @Parbes
    Russian involvement in Syria is not about "poking the US and its proxies in the eye" just for the heck of it. If the secular Syrian regime is overthrown and Syria falls to the jihadis, then (in addition to the slaughter of untold numbers of secular/moderate people and minorities) soon afterwards Syria will turn into Jihadi Central: a training and staging area for jihadis being sent to attack Russia (and probably China, Central Asia and Iran too).

    I see your point, but then it would be as much a problem for the US’ allies (Israel, Turkey, Jordan, KSA) as it would for Russia’s: jihadis can’t be controlled. As sad as it would be to see Syria’s ancient Christian and other communities be forced out, I don’t think the situation can be remedied without unjustifiable Russian losses.

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    • Replies: @5371
    Defeatism.
    , @Parbes
    You are either living-under-a-rock ignorant, or some kind of neocon (troll?), or simply stupid. The jihadis in Syria are PROXIES of the Saudis, Turkey, and the U.S. They are not going to attack the regional allies of the U.S. - especially since those allies (with the exception of Israel, a hard-to-crack nut which is too well-defended) consist of conservative Islamist regimes sharing the same basic ideology as the jihadis themselves. They will be directed to attack Russia, Iran, China and Central Asia (especially Russia), and will do so enthusiastically.

    "As sad as it would be to see Syria’s ancient Christian and other communities be forced out..."

    They won't just be "forced out" (a relatively mild-sounding term connoting mere banishment); they will be SLAUGHTERED. And not only Christians and other minorities, but ordinary, moderate, secular people who are not jihadis, as well. Funny, how you sugarcoat and downplay things - I could almost suspect it's intentional...

    "I don’t think the situation can be remedied without unjustifiable Russian losses"

    The situation WAS being remedied with minimal Russian losses back in January-February of this year, when with the help of massive Russian air support the Syrian army was approaching the verge of crushing the jihadis completely. Then the nincompoop Putin snatched non-victory out of the jaws of victory, by suddenly declaring a "truce with our partners" and pulling out most of the Russian air support.

    What does the loaded term "unjustifiable losses" even mean, anyway? "Unjustifiable" according to whose criteria, and compared to what? Would it be more "justifiable" to fight jihadis in Southern Russia, rather than obliterate them in Syria?
  11. @Marcus
    I see your point, but then it would be as much a problem for the US' allies (Israel, Turkey, Jordan, KSA) as it would for Russia's: jihadis can't be controlled. As sad as it would be to see Syria's ancient Christian and other communities be forced out, I don't think the situation can be remedied without unjustifiable Russian losses.

    Defeatism.

    Read More
    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Marcus
    I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but do the breaking of the Aleppo siege and apparent failure to mend relations with Turkey bode well?
  12. @5371
    Defeatism.

    I mean, I hope I’m wrong, but do the breaking of the Aleppo siege and apparent failure to mend relations with Turkey bode well?

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Putin was totally exasperated with Erdogan in St. Petersburg. Apparently all pre coup announcements of Turkish government that they would concentrate on ISIS and let Assad be were reneged on in St. Petersburg. Only economic issues like oranges, tomatoes, tourists and gas were dealt with. Erdogan now will be playing his game with Americans.
    http://www.gorilla-radio.com/2016/08/11/gorilla-radio-chris-cook-john-helmer-lynn-perrin-janine-bandcroft-aug-10-2016/

    Good that Russia is on good terms with Iran to have airport base there.
    , @5371
    The siege hasn't really been broken, the cannibals can't resupply themselves through Ramuseh. I never trusted Erdogan further than I could throw him, so I can't say I'm surprised.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Why mend relations with an increasingly Islamist and savage turkey? The USA and Russia should get together and treat turkey as the civilization all enemy that it is.
  13. @Marcus
    I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but do the breaking of the Aleppo siege and apparent failure to mend relations with Turkey bode well?

    Putin was totally exasperated with Erdogan in St. Petersburg. Apparently all pre coup announcements of Turkish government that they would concentrate on ISIS and let Assad be were reneged on in St. Petersburg. Only economic issues like oranges, tomatoes, tourists and gas were dealt with. Erdogan now will be playing his game with Americans.

    http://www.gorilla-radio.com/2016/08/11/gorilla-radio-chris-cook-john-helmer-lynn-perrin-janine-bandcroft-aug-10-2016/

    Good that Russia is on good terms with Iran to have airport base there.

    Read More
  14. @Quartermaster
    Still can't bring yourself to pry yourself away from Putin's lies on Ukraine. The business in Crimea has already been shown to be some of Putin's "military contractors" shooting at Russian troops. Ukraine infiltrated no one. But keep believing that myth if you like.

    Ukraine has no reason to accept an intelligence officer as the Russian ambassador. In fact, they are right not to accept his credentials since they are a lie.

    Really ridiculous propaganda, but keep up the nonsense, it’s entertaining drivel.

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  15. @Marcus
    I see your point, but then it would be as much a problem for the US' allies (Israel, Turkey, Jordan, KSA) as it would for Russia's: jihadis can't be controlled. As sad as it would be to see Syria's ancient Christian and other communities be forced out, I don't think the situation can be remedied without unjustifiable Russian losses.

    You are either living-under-a-rock ignorant, or some kind of neocon (troll?), or simply stupid. The jihadis in Syria are PROXIES of the Saudis, Turkey, and the U.S. They are not going to attack the regional allies of the U.S. – especially since those allies (with the exception of Israel, a hard-to-crack nut which is too well-defended) consist of conservative Islamist regimes sharing the same basic ideology as the jihadis themselves. They will be directed to attack Russia, Iran, China and Central Asia (especially Russia), and will do so enthusiastically.

    “As sad as it would be to see Syria’s ancient Christian and other communities be forced out…”

    They won’t just be “forced out” (a relatively mild-sounding term connoting mere banishment); they will be SLAUGHTERED. And not only Christians and other minorities, but ordinary, moderate, secular people who are not jihadis, as well. Funny, how you sugarcoat and downplay things – I could almost suspect it’s intentional…

    “I don’t think the situation can be remedied without unjustifiable Russian losses”

    The situation WAS being remedied with minimal Russian losses back in January-February of this year, when with the help of massive Russian air support the Syrian army was approaching the verge of crushing the jihadis completely. Then the nincompoop Putin snatched non-victory out of the jaws of victory, by suddenly declaring a “truce with our partners” and pulling out most of the Russian air support.

    What does the loaded term “unjustifiable losses” even mean, anyway? “Unjustifiable” according to whose criteria, and compared to what? Would it be more “justifiable” to fight jihadis in Southern Russia, rather than obliterate them in Syria?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Blowback is a pretty well-established pattern, Saudi and Turkey got some recently and even the US isn't immune. Terror groups are easy to arm, next to impossible to control.
  16. @Parbes
    You are either living-under-a-rock ignorant, or some kind of neocon (troll?), or simply stupid. The jihadis in Syria are PROXIES of the Saudis, Turkey, and the U.S. They are not going to attack the regional allies of the U.S. - especially since those allies (with the exception of Israel, a hard-to-crack nut which is too well-defended) consist of conservative Islamist regimes sharing the same basic ideology as the jihadis themselves. They will be directed to attack Russia, Iran, China and Central Asia (especially Russia), and will do so enthusiastically.

    "As sad as it would be to see Syria’s ancient Christian and other communities be forced out..."

    They won't just be "forced out" (a relatively mild-sounding term connoting mere banishment); they will be SLAUGHTERED. And not only Christians and other minorities, but ordinary, moderate, secular people who are not jihadis, as well. Funny, how you sugarcoat and downplay things - I could almost suspect it's intentional...

    "I don’t think the situation can be remedied without unjustifiable Russian losses"

    The situation WAS being remedied with minimal Russian losses back in January-February of this year, when with the help of massive Russian air support the Syrian army was approaching the verge of crushing the jihadis completely. Then the nincompoop Putin snatched non-victory out of the jaws of victory, by suddenly declaring a "truce with our partners" and pulling out most of the Russian air support.

    What does the loaded term "unjustifiable losses" even mean, anyway? "Unjustifiable" according to whose criteria, and compared to what? Would it be more "justifiable" to fight jihadis in Southern Russia, rather than obliterate them in Syria?

    Blowback is a pretty well-established pattern, Saudi and Turkey got some recently and even the US isn’t immune. Terror groups are easy to arm, next to impossible to control.

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  17. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    One thing for sure, Syrians sure suck at fighting.

    I hope Syrians don’t do a ‘south vietnam’ on the Russians.

    Hiding behind Russia for protection while running and hiding.

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    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    One thing for sure, Syrians sure suck at fighting.
     
    If that were true, Syria would have ceased to exist by now.
  18. chances are that the Novorussians are capable of not only stopping a Ukronazi attack, but even of an operationally deep counter-attack.

    Highly unlikely, according to people who are actually there: https://vk.com/wall151630709_50807

    Я сам большой патриот ДНР и наших ВС, но надо здраво рассуждать. Абсолютно любому здесь понятно, что сами по себе мы без помощи России и недели против ВСУ не продержимся, если они бросят все силы на захват ЛДНР. Не потому, что мы чем-то хуже (мы лучше), а просто потому что “силы несопоставимы”.

    .

    Then there is the issue of the (now former) Russian ambassador to Kiev, Mikhail Zurabov, who was totally ineffective in getting anything done at all (while he was left in place for so long is still a mystery to me). True, Zurabov had nobody to speak to, but that does not justify him cozying up and playing buddies with Poroshenko as he reportedly did.

    He was supposedly part of the Surkov “sliv” faction (which is currently in retreat).

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Highly unlikely, according to people who are actually there:
     
    Basing conclusions on the state of VSN on opinions of such veterans as Zhuchkovsky or Girkin is really not a good practice--it is akin to making operational decisions on El-Murid's "analysis".
  19. @Marcus
    I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but do the breaking of the Aleppo siege and apparent failure to mend relations with Turkey bode well?

    The siege hasn’t really been broken, the cannibals can’t resupply themselves through Ramuseh. I never trusted Erdogan further than I could throw him, so I can’t say I’m surprised.

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  20. @Priss Factor
    One thing for sure, Syrians sure suck at fighting.

    I hope Syrians don't do a 'south vietnam' on the Russians.

    Hiding behind Russia for protection while running and hiding.

    One thing for sure, Syrians sure suck at fighting.

    If that were true, Syria would have ceased to exist by now.

    Read More
  21. @Quartermaster
    Still can't bring yourself to pry yourself away from Putin's lies on Ukraine. The business in Crimea has already been shown to be some of Putin's "military contractors" shooting at Russian troops. Ukraine infiltrated no one. But keep believing that myth if you like.

    Ukraine has no reason to accept an intelligence officer as the Russian ambassador. In fact, they are right not to accept his credentials since they are a lie.

    Ukraine will accept whatever Moscow tells it to accept. It’s just a matter of time. Every year 200k Ukies are moving to Russia, and that’s on top of 200k net annual die-off due to deaths exceeding births. Even calling it a basket case would be too generous.
    Ukraine is simply disappearing right in front of us. It’s a national suicide.
    Few more years, and Kiev becomes a ghost town surrounded by weeds.

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  22. @Quartermaster
    Still can't bring yourself to pry yourself away from Putin's lies on Ukraine. The business in Crimea has already been shown to be some of Putin's "military contractors" shooting at Russian troops. Ukraine infiltrated no one. But keep believing that myth if you like.

    Ukraine has no reason to accept an intelligence officer as the Russian ambassador. In fact, they are right not to accept his credentials since they are a lie.

    Do you have a link, or are these simply assertions on your part? If you have a link, I’d love to see it, and promise to go read it attentively.

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  23. People do not seem to have patience anymore. Please read history, it took around a century to finally collapse and destroy the Qarmati extremists – these guys made Daesh look tame. They sacked Mecca, stole the black stone and even massacred pilgrims on the Hajj routes.

    Russia seems to be making tactically prudent moves. I think the best to hope for is quarantining Daesh in their zone and putting economic pressure on it to collapse or fall into internal fractures and power struggles.

    My hope is that something can be done in the aftermath (an international effort) to bring back displaced peoples of all backgrounds. Maybe we can force the Saudis to foot most of the bill – least they could do.

    Peace.

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  24. […] Once UAF forces are commited,  NAF saboteur-recon groups map them and they are surrounded.  Once a cauldron has been created, combatants are asked to abandon their armor and weapons.  Those lucky enough to escape their own neo-nazis prefer to cross Novorussian lines, where they are taken to Russia, given medical attention and repatriated if they choose.  Those escaping back to Ukraine are instead dealt with harshly.  Once the cauldron has been cleared, it is targeted with Multiple Launch Rocket Systems and incinerated with thermobaric submunitions. […]

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  25. […] Once UAF forces are commited,  NAF saboteur-recon groups map them and they are surrounded.  Once a cauldron has been created, combatants are asked to abandon their armor and weapons.  Those lucky enough to escape their own neo-nazis prefer to cross Novorussian lines, where they are taken to Russia, given medical attention and repatriated if they choose.  Those escaping back to Ukraine are instead dealt with harshly.  Once the cauldron has been cleared, it is targeted with Multiple Launch Rocket Systems and incinerated with thermobaric submunitions. […]

    Read More
  26. […] on August 18, 2016 by J.C. By The Saker Global Research, August 18, 2016 The UNZ Report 15 August […]

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  27. Based on what I’ve learned so far here and elsewhere, I tend to agree with Russia’s position on Crimea and the Donbass region, as well as Syria.

    But your use of the slur “Ukronazis” makes you look ridiculous and has turned off people to whom I’ve forwarded your otherwise careful and well-informed analyses.

    And yes, I am aware of neo-nazi elements in the Ukrainian government and military. Not the point.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    It seems a fitting term to me. Ukronazis fits perfectly. They spearheaded the coup, the massacres in Odessa and other places, have been the most effective combat units and wear their nazi regalia openly.

    The Ukranian government is illegitimate in every sense so what should these thugs be called? Soccer hooligans? Naughty boys? Scallywags?
  28. @Marcus
    Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it's fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn't worth a single Russian life. Focus on defending the Ukraine, offer RF citizenship to the "Novorussians" instead of continuing to fight for secession, that would offset some of the Muslim immigration and improve relations with Ukraine.

    No, if Russia is pressured, shamed, or intimidated into withdrawing from Syria, the US government and its vassals will just push further for geographical, resource, and economic control, into Russia itself as circumstances permit.

    As a proud American who distrusts both the US government and the Russian government, I can see that “my” government has the resources, the propaganda machine, the reserve currency, etc., to do more damage to the lives and liberty of the world’s people than Russia does.

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  29. @Marcus
    I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but do the breaking of the Aleppo siege and apparent failure to mend relations with Turkey bode well?

    Why mend relations with an increasingly Islamist and savage turkey? The USA and Russia should get together and treat turkey as the civilization all enemy that it is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    That's civilizational. PLEASE PROVIDE AN EDIT FUNCTION ALREADY.
  30. @RadicalCenter
    Why mend relations with an increasingly Islamist and savage turkey? The USA and Russia should get together and treat turkey as the civilization all enemy that it is.

    That’s civilizational. PLEASE PROVIDE AN EDIT FUNCTION ALREADY.

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    • Replies: @Jim Christian

    That’s civilizational. PLEASE PROVIDE AN EDIT FUNCTION ALREADY.
     
    Civilizational doesn't seem to be a word either, but civilization-wide was the intent. We get it. Nothing worse than grammar-Nazis that also have it wrong.
  31. @RadicalCenter
    That's civilizational. PLEASE PROVIDE AN EDIT FUNCTION ALREADY.

    That’s civilizational. PLEASE PROVIDE AN EDIT FUNCTION ALREADY.

    Civilizational doesn’t seem to be a word either, but civilization-wide was the intent. We get it. Nothing worse than grammar-Nazis that also have it wrong.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Jim, please notice that I was correcting my own comment, not someone else's. Hardly a grammar nazi to try to correct my own mistake.

    And yes, civilizational is fairly widely used and easily understood.

    Nothing worse than someone who gets it wrong and needlessly calls someone a grammar nazi like a little bitch. Is little bitch grammatically acceptable to YOU, Jim, grammar faggot?
  32. […] The Saker Global Research, August 18, 2016 The UNZ Report 15 August […]

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  33. @RadicalCenter
    Based on what I've learned so far here and elsewhere, I tend to agree with Russia's position on Crimea and the Donbass region, as well as Syria.

    But your use of the slur "Ukronazis" makes you look ridiculous and has turned off people to whom I've forwarded your otherwise careful and well-informed analyses.

    And yes, I am aware of neo-nazi elements in the Ukrainian government and military. Not the point.

    It seems a fitting term to me. Ukronazis fits perfectly. They spearheaded the coup, the massacres in Odessa and other places, have been the most effective combat units and wear their nazi regalia openly.

    The Ukranian government is illegitimate in every sense so what should these thugs be called? Soccer hooligans? Naughty boys? Scallywags?

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    He's calling all Ukrainians "ukronazis", it seems, who are opposed to substantial Russian involvement and influence in Ukraine, opposed to true autonomy or independence for the donbass region, or simply hateful towards Russians.

    While I agree with his analysis almost entirely based on what I know so far, it still calls many, many people nazis who are nothing of the sort, and it has IN FACT turned off people to whom I've sent his columns and made them less receptive.
  34. Russian policy in both Ukraine and Syria is good-old imperialism. It annexed Crimea, once a Muslim state occupied by Czarist Russia, latter given to Ukraine by Zionist Stalin – because Russian settlers in Crimea wanted to join Mother Russia. On the other hand, in 1991, Putin sent military to crush Chechen Muslims’ decision to establish an independent Muslim state for which their ancestors had been fighting for nearly 400 years.

    Dr. Andrew Foxall, a Russian affairs expert at the Henry Jackson Society, a London-based American Zio-Conservative think tank, recently wrote: “The continuing instability in the North Caucasus speaks volumes about power projection in Putin’s Russia. Putin may give the impression of an all-powerful strongman, but the reality is that he does not control, nor has he controlled, all of Russia. Chechnya, with its strict Islamic law, compulsory dress code for women, and restrictions on (Jewish values) the sale of alcohol, more closely resembles a Middle Eastern sultanate than any part of the Russian Federation.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/10/chechen-caught-in-the-us-russian-crossfire/

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Thank God that Russians took over much of the Caucasus and prevented the further spread of the poison that is islam.

    I only wish that the Russians had sufficient force of arms and public opinion / resolve to drive muslims entirely out of Russia proper and out of the region.

    As an American, I am ashamed to see my supposed government both needlessly killing Muslims nowhere near us and suicidally supporting muslim fanatics in Syria and elsewhere. Russia's policies, while far from perfect, and overly solicitous of muslims, is superior to ours.

    Go beat some women, rehmat, and relax yourself.
    , @bluedog
    Why on earth would any one with any mentality post anything put out by an American Zio-Conservative think tank, and everything I have read on Chechnya and other countries on terrorism points to the C.I.A. and our State Department as both instigating and funding it as we are now seeing in both Iraq and Syria and before that Serbia.!!!
    , @RadicalCenter
    You're right, Rehmat, Russia should exterminate the Chechens, Dagestanis, and other Muslim savages in the Caucasus, so that that area does not resemble a sultanate.

    Or they could merely be deported to a brotherly Muslim country that cares so much about their fellow Muslims. You know, just like Muslim countries have accepted millions of Muslim refugees as permanent settlers rather than having them go rape, intimidate, kill, and bully in Europe. Not.
    , @Avery
    {It annexed Crimea, once a Muslim state occupied by Czarist Russia, ...}

    Everywhere Muslims invade and squat - after they exterminate the indigenous populations - becomes, quote "Muslim" state.

    Crimea was never a so-called "Muslim" state: Muslim Tatars invaded from East Asia and took over, until they were ejected by glorious Russian troops.
    If the roles were reversed, Muslims would massacre every last Christian.
    The fact there are about 250,00 Tatars living in peace today in Christian Crimea attests to the fact of the tolerance of Christians and Russians.

    And why are you still squatting in Christian Canada, you IslamoFascist parasite. If Islam is so great, why are you not living in your native Pakistan, or any other Islamistan paradises?

  35. @Marcus
    Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it's fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn't worth a single Russian life. Focus on defending the Ukraine, offer RF citizenship to the "Novorussians" instead of continuing to fight for secession, that would offset some of the Muslim immigration and improve relations with Ukraine.

    “Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it’s fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn’t worth a single Russian life. “

    You seem to have missed the point that the loss of Assad would allow for pipelines to be built through Syria from the Arabian Peninsula to Europe, and thereby allow for Russia’s sales of energy products to Europe to be undercut by the US’s paymasters. Seen in that context, the current geopolitical alignments make perfect sense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen


    Russia has promised Qatar a pipeline in return for Qatar stopping support to the rebels. This was agreed.
  36. @Quartermaster
    Still can't bring yourself to pry yourself away from Putin's lies on Ukraine. The business in Crimea has already been shown to be some of Putin's "military contractors" shooting at Russian troops. Ukraine infiltrated no one. But keep believing that myth if you like.

    Ukraine has no reason to accept an intelligence officer as the Russian ambassador. In fact, they are right not to accept his credentials since they are a lie.

    “…scores of innocents civilians have been killed every day…”
    Do you understand this? Or your Jewish/Ukrainian mother taught you that only Jewish life is sacred?
    Synopsis: Ukraine is dying and the US ziocons are trying to extract from the useless Ukrainians another drop of blood in order to saddle Russian Federation with a war (could become a hot war). The State Dept imbeciles, guided by ruling plutocracy (the FedReserve cartel and main war profiteers) and ziocon dreams, have been in full cooperation with Ukrainian neo-Nazis (hello, Holocaust!) and Al Qaeda (Daesh, IS, ISIS, moderate jihadis – you name it). You see, the US moral fiber shines and blinds.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/329010-ukraine-neo-nazis-aid/

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/The-Nazis-Even-Hitler-was-by-George-Eliason-Exile_Genocide_Hitler-Brownshirts_Hitler-Youth-140316-321.html

    http://www.ronpaul.com/2015-08-08/us-intelligence-confirms-us-support-for-isis/

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  37. @Marcus
    Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it's fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn't worth a single Russian life. Focus on defending the Ukraine, offer RF citizenship to the "Novorussians" instead of continuing to fight for secession, that would offset some of the Muslim immigration and improve relations with Ukraine.
    Read More
  38. @Jim Christian

    That’s civilizational. PLEASE PROVIDE AN EDIT FUNCTION ALREADY.
     
    Civilizational doesn't seem to be a word either, but civilization-wide was the intent. We get it. Nothing worse than grammar-Nazis that also have it wrong.

    Jim, please notice that I was correcting my own comment, not someone else’s. Hardly a grammar nazi to try to correct my own mistake.

    And yes, civilizational is fairly widely used and easily understood.

    Nothing worse than someone who gets it wrong and needlessly calls someone a grammar nazi like a little bitch. Is little bitch grammatically acceptable to YOU, Jim, grammar faggot?

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    • Replies: @Richard S
    There is an edit function, numb nuts. You have 5 minutes after posting.
    , @Jim Christian
    RadCen was clearly abused as a child and he projects his fondest wishes for himself onto others. Still, he's a Nazi. Sometimes, you just can't make this stuff up.
  39. @NoseytheDuke
    It seems a fitting term to me. Ukronazis fits perfectly. They spearheaded the coup, the massacres in Odessa and other places, have been the most effective combat units and wear their nazi regalia openly.

    The Ukranian government is illegitimate in every sense so what should these thugs be called? Soccer hooligans? Naughty boys? Scallywags?

    He’s calling all Ukrainians “ukronazis”, it seems, who are opposed to substantial Russian involvement and influence in Ukraine, opposed to true autonomy or independence for the donbass region, or simply hateful towards Russians.

    While I agree with his analysis almost entirely based on what I know so far, it still calls many, many people nazis who are nothing of the sort, and it has IN FACT turned off people to whom I’ve sent his columns and made them less receptive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    He’s calling all Ukrainians “ukronazis”, it seems
     
    I agree

    there are very many, very legitimate grievances that the people of Ukraine have towards Russia

    most specifically Russia's unwillingness to repudiate the atrocities that the Soviet Red Army (and demonic, genocidal NKVD) visited upon the people of Ukraine (and elsewhere) during that mass-genocidal insanity called the Soviet Regime. (especially under the fiend Stalin)

    this is not a cartoon-like, one-sided conflict where everyone on one side is lily white and the others are pure villains. It just seems like that to us in the West because we see how Kyiv is allied with the Zio-Fiend, that that makes them and all their supporters look utterly villainous- when it's more nuanced than that.

    There are lingering hostilities that are sub-currents in this conflict (like most) that are not black and white.

    The Ukrainian nationals have a legitimate right to self-determination (just like all peoples)

    the former government in Kyiv was notoriously corrupt, even by Ukraine's standards, and was aligned with Russia, (also notoriously corrupt) and often to the detriment of the aspirations and hopes of the Ukrainians in the Western part of the region.

    That Putin is the only adult on the geo-political stage, makes some of us guilty of a knee-jerk support for all of his policies, but I for one, would like to see him publically and vocally denounce the terrors of the Red Army [rapists], and suggest that more of the ethic Russians (that were cynically imported into places like Estonia by the Soviets to undermine the demographic homogeneity and ethnic and cultural harmony) of the satellite states- make an effort to learn the local languages and customs and assimilate.

    This will help disarm the war pigs in the West who're cynically using these natural fault lines to foment strife and hatred and bloodshed and war, (their calling cards)

    https://i1.wp.com/info.kopp-verlag.de/data/image/Robert%20Parry/2015-08/Die%20Kagans/Aufzeichnen.JPG

    The Ukrainian people are good people. The Russian people are good people. The Russians are simply lucky to have a leader that's looking out for them while the Ukrainians are languishing under a quisling even worse than what they had, because this Porky pig is a tool of the Beast. The Fiend. And nothing good can come from that.

    If I were a religions man, I'd pray for all those people, and hope that somehow they can see though the machinations and demonic schemes of the Fiend (Zio-Anglo-banksters and war pigs)

    it's those Kagans and others like them that are the deadliest enemies of both the Russian and Ukrainian (and American and European) peoples

    we should not allow them to do a 'let's you and him fight' to us all, like they did in the last century (while they gloat at the fratricidal slaughter-fest and count their shekels)

    http://d1ok8mf0twoy0u.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/dancing-rabbis-crown-heights.jpg

    Putin seems to be the only one who can quash this madness. I wish him God speed in doing so.
    , @gerad
    Your definition means people who are willing to let Ukrainian Ultra-nationalists kill russophiles/Russians ....of course Ukro-Nazis is an appropriate term you dimwit....and who cares about any cretins who are turned off by you linking or not linking a piece?
  40. @Rehmat
    Russian policy in both Ukraine and Syria is good-old imperialism. It annexed Crimea, once a Muslim state occupied by Czarist Russia, latter given to Ukraine by Zionist Stalin - because Russian settlers in Crimea wanted to join Mother Russia. On the other hand, in 1991, Putin sent military to crush Chechen Muslims' decision to establish an independent Muslim state for which their ancestors had been fighting for nearly 400 years.

    Dr. Andrew Foxall, a Russian affairs expert at the Henry Jackson Society, a London-based American Zio-Conservative think tank, recently wrote: “The continuing instability in the North Caucasus speaks volumes about power projection in Putin’s Russia. Putin may give the impression of an all-powerful strongman, but the reality is that he does not control, nor has he controlled, all of Russia. Chechnya, with its strict Islamic law, compulsory dress code for women, and restrictions on (Jewish values) the sale of alcohol, more closely resembles a Middle Eastern sultanate than any part of the Russian Federation.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/10/chechen-caught-in-the-us-russian-crossfire/

    Thank God that Russians took over much of the Caucasus and prevented the further spread of the poison that is islam.

    I only wish that the Russians had sufficient force of arms and public opinion / resolve to drive muslims entirely out of Russia proper and out of the region.

    As an American, I am ashamed to see my supposed government both needlessly killing Muslims nowhere near us and suicidally supporting muslim fanatics in Syria and elsewhere. Russia’s policies, while far from perfect, and overly solicitous of muslims, is superior to ours.

    Go beat some women, rehmat, and relax yourself.

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  41. @RadicalCenter
    Jim, please notice that I was correcting my own comment, not someone else's. Hardly a grammar nazi to try to correct my own mistake.

    And yes, civilizational is fairly widely used and easily understood.

    Nothing worse than someone who gets it wrong and needlessly calls someone a grammar nazi like a little bitch. Is little bitch grammatically acceptable to YOU, Jim, grammar faggot?

    There is an edit function, numb nuts. You have 5 minutes after posting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    I no longer see an edit function as before, just a preview function. Is it just me? It's enough.
  42. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anatoly Karlin

    chances are that the Novorussians are capable of not only stopping a Ukronazi attack, but even of an operationally deep counter-attack.
     
    Highly unlikely, according to people who are actually there: https://vk.com/wall151630709_50807

    Я сам большой патриот ДНР и наших ВС, но надо здраво рассуждать. Абсолютно любому здесь понятно, что сами по себе мы без помощи России и недели против ВСУ не продержимся, если они бросят все силы на захват ЛДНР. Не потому, что мы чем-то хуже (мы лучше), а просто потому что "силы несопоставимы".
     
    .

    Then there is the issue of the (now former) Russian ambassador to Kiev, Mikhail Zurabov, who was totally ineffective in getting anything done at all (while he was left in place for so long is still a mystery to me). True, Zurabov had nobody to speak to, but that does not justify him cozying up and playing buddies with Poroshenko as he reportedly did.
     
    He was supposedly part of the Surkov "sliv" faction (which is currently in retreat).

    Highly unlikely, according to people who are actually there:

    Basing conclusions on the state of VSN on opinions of such veterans as Zhuchkovsky or Girkin is really not a good practice–it is akin to making operational decisions on El-Murid’s “analysis”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    I follow Girkin on social media. He's been in Donbass for weeks, as a private citizen.
  43. @Rehmat
    Russian policy in both Ukraine and Syria is good-old imperialism. It annexed Crimea, once a Muslim state occupied by Czarist Russia, latter given to Ukraine by Zionist Stalin - because Russian settlers in Crimea wanted to join Mother Russia. On the other hand, in 1991, Putin sent military to crush Chechen Muslims' decision to establish an independent Muslim state for which their ancestors had been fighting for nearly 400 years.

    Dr. Andrew Foxall, a Russian affairs expert at the Henry Jackson Society, a London-based American Zio-Conservative think tank, recently wrote: “The continuing instability in the North Caucasus speaks volumes about power projection in Putin’s Russia. Putin may give the impression of an all-powerful strongman, but the reality is that he does not control, nor has he controlled, all of Russia. Chechnya, with its strict Islamic law, compulsory dress code for women, and restrictions on (Jewish values) the sale of alcohol, more closely resembles a Middle Eastern sultanate than any part of the Russian Federation.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/10/chechen-caught-in-the-us-russian-crossfire/

    Why on earth would any one with any mentality post anything put out by an American Zio-Conservative think tank, and everything I have read on Chechnya and other countries on terrorism points to the C.I.A. and our State Department as both instigating and funding it as we are now seeing in both Iraq and Syria and before that Serbia.!!!

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  44. @RadicalCenter
    He's calling all Ukrainians "ukronazis", it seems, who are opposed to substantial Russian involvement and influence in Ukraine, opposed to true autonomy or independence for the donbass region, or simply hateful towards Russians.

    While I agree with his analysis almost entirely based on what I know so far, it still calls many, many people nazis who are nothing of the sort, and it has IN FACT turned off people to whom I've sent his columns and made them less receptive.

    He’s calling all Ukrainians “ukronazis”, it seems

    I agree

    there are very many, very legitimate grievances that the people of Ukraine have towards Russia

    most specifically Russia’s unwillingness to repudiate the atrocities that the Soviet Red Army (and demonic, genocidal NKVD) visited upon the people of Ukraine (and elsewhere) during that mass-genocidal insanity called the Soviet Regime. (especially under the fiend Stalin)

    this is not a cartoon-like, one-sided conflict where everyone on one side is lily white and the others are pure villains. It just seems like that to us in the West because we see how Kyiv is allied with the Zio-Fiend, that that makes them and all their supporters look utterly villainous- when it’s more nuanced than that.

    There are lingering hostilities that are sub-currents in this conflict (like most) that are not black and white.

    The Ukrainian nationals have a legitimate right to self-determination (just like all peoples)

    the former government in Kyiv was notoriously corrupt, even by Ukraine’s standards, and was aligned with Russia, (also notoriously corrupt) and often to the detriment of the aspirations and hopes of the Ukrainians in the Western part of the region.

    That Putin is the only adult on the geo-political stage, makes some of us guilty of a knee-jerk support for all of his policies, but I for one, would like to see him publically and vocally denounce the terrors of the Red Army [rapists], and suggest that more of the ethic Russians (that were cynically imported into places like Estonia by the Soviets to undermine the demographic homogeneity and ethnic and cultural harmony) of the satellite states- make an effort to learn the local languages and customs and assimilate.

    This will help disarm the war pigs in the West who’re cynically using these natural fault lines to foment strife and hatred and bloodshed and war, (their calling cards)

    https://i1.wp.com/info.kopp-verlag.de/data/image/Robert%20Parry/2015-08/Die%20Kagans/Aufzeichnen.JPG

    The Ukrainian people are good people. The Russian people are good people. The Russians are simply lucky to have a leader that’s looking out for them while the Ukrainians are languishing under a quisling even worse than what they had, because this Porky pig is a tool of the Beast. The Fiend. And nothing good can come from that.

    If I were a religions man, I’d pray for all those people, and hope that somehow they can see though the machinations and demonic schemes of the Fiend (Zio-Anglo-banksters and war pigs)

    it’s those Kagans and others like them that are the deadliest enemies of both the Russian and Ukrainian (and American and European) peoples

    we should not allow them to do a ‘let’s you and him fight’ to us all, like they did in the last century (while they gloat at the fratricidal slaughter-fest and count their shekels)

    http://d1ok8mf0twoy0u.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/dancing-rabbis-crown-heights.jpg

    Putin seems to be the only one who can quash this madness. I wish him God speed in doing so.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Nuanced it is, as is everything. Yes, there are good Ukrainians just like there are good Americans and of course good jews and muslims too. There are good and bad amongst all people. It really comes down to who is driving the bus and where they are taking the people on it.

    I don't have a problem with The Saker using the term Ukronazis and I too wish the Russian people well with Putin in the driver's seat. The war agenda is a pricey ticket to nowhere.
  45. @Rehmat
    Russian policy in both Ukraine and Syria is good-old imperialism. It annexed Crimea, once a Muslim state occupied by Czarist Russia, latter given to Ukraine by Zionist Stalin - because Russian settlers in Crimea wanted to join Mother Russia. On the other hand, in 1991, Putin sent military to crush Chechen Muslims' decision to establish an independent Muslim state for which their ancestors had been fighting for nearly 400 years.

    Dr. Andrew Foxall, a Russian affairs expert at the Henry Jackson Society, a London-based American Zio-Conservative think tank, recently wrote: “The continuing instability in the North Caucasus speaks volumes about power projection in Putin’s Russia. Putin may give the impression of an all-powerful strongman, but the reality is that he does not control, nor has he controlled, all of Russia. Chechnya, with its strict Islamic law, compulsory dress code for women, and restrictions on (Jewish values) the sale of alcohol, more closely resembles a Middle Eastern sultanate than any part of the Russian Federation.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/10/chechen-caught-in-the-us-russian-crossfire/

    You’re right, Rehmat, Russia should exterminate the Chechens, Dagestanis, and other Muslim savages in the Caucasus, so that that area does not resemble a sultanate.

    Or they could merely be deported to a brotherly Muslim country that cares so much about their fellow Muslims. You know, just like Muslim countries have accepted millions of Muslim refugees as permanent settlers rather than having them go rape, intimidate, kill, and bully in Europe. Not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen


    Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually - Jackson's Trail of Tears).
  46. @Rehmat
    Russian policy in both Ukraine and Syria is good-old imperialism. It annexed Crimea, once a Muslim state occupied by Czarist Russia, latter given to Ukraine by Zionist Stalin - because Russian settlers in Crimea wanted to join Mother Russia. On the other hand, in 1991, Putin sent military to crush Chechen Muslims' decision to establish an independent Muslim state for which their ancestors had been fighting for nearly 400 years.

    Dr. Andrew Foxall, a Russian affairs expert at the Henry Jackson Society, a London-based American Zio-Conservative think tank, recently wrote: “The continuing instability in the North Caucasus speaks volumes about power projection in Putin’s Russia. Putin may give the impression of an all-powerful strongman, but the reality is that he does not control, nor has he controlled, all of Russia. Chechnya, with its strict Islamic law, compulsory dress code for women, and restrictions on (Jewish values) the sale of alcohol, more closely resembles a Middle Eastern sultanate than any part of the Russian Federation.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/10/chechen-caught-in-the-us-russian-crossfire/

    {It annexed Crimea, once a Muslim state occupied by Czarist Russia, …}

    Everywhere Muslims invade and squat – after they exterminate the indigenous populations – becomes, quote “Muslim” state.

    Crimea was never a so-called “Muslim” state: Muslim Tatars invaded from East Asia and took over, until they were ejected by glorious Russian troops.
    If the roles were reversed, Muslims would massacre every last Christian.
    The fact there are about 250,00 Tatars living in peace today in Christian Crimea attests to the fact of the tolerance of Christians and Russians.

    And why are you still squatting in Christian Canada, you IslamoFascist parasite. If Islam is so great, why are you not living in your native Pakistan, or any other Islamistan paradises?

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  47. Crimea was never a so-called “Muslim” state:

    it’s complicated

    for hundreds of years, Crimean Tartars (seemingly a mix of Turk and Mongol) waged raids on Christian Russians and Poles and Lithuanians and others to seize and capture millions of Christians to sell as slaves to the Muslims

    this from Wiki

    Fisher estimates that in the sixteenth century the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth lost around 20,000 individuals a year and that from 1474 to 1694, as many as a million Commonwealth citizens were carried off into Crimean slavery.[11]

    … Both female and male slaves were often used for sexual purposes.[10]

    and of course, children as well

    The Jewish population was concentrated in Çufut Kale (‘Jewish Fortress’),… … Crimean law granted them special financial and political rights as a reward, according to local folklore, for historic services rendered to an uluhane (first wife of a Khan). The Jews in Crimea were actively involved in the slave trade.[10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate

    more:

    http://www.academia.edu/2971600/Slave_Trade_in_the_Early_Modern_Crimea_From_the_Perspective_of_Christian_Muslim_and_Jewish_Sources

    The fact there are about 250,00 Tatars living in peace today in Christian Crimea attests to the fact of the tolerance of Christians and Russians.

    I would say so, but I suspect the rabid dog of Islam pines for better days

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen


    The Cossacks also sold Ukrainian peasants to the Tatars by the hundred thousand. Slavery financed Khlemnitsky. So what is your point about the Jews exactly? Hate speech?

    Before it was Tatar it was Greek. Vladimir was baptized there, allegedly, as a Byzantine Prince rather than an independent king. He was allowed a temporary "conquest" to muddy the waters.
  48. A good guys viewpoint.

    Corbyn Dropped a Truth Bomb on the Warmongering Elite

    By Carlyn Harvey

    August 20, 2013 “Information Clearing House” – “The Canary” – On 18 August, the real reason why the establishment believes Jeremy Corbyn is so “dangerous” was made perfectly clear. Responding to a question about defence at a Labour leadership debate, the incumbent refused to justify military action by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), instead vowing to make efforts to create “a world where we don’t need to go to war”.

    more:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45318.htm

    The deep Jew state wants more conflict, more war. We know this to be true. End of story.

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  49. @Andrei Martyanov

    Highly unlikely, according to people who are actually there:
     
    Basing conclusions on the state of VSN on opinions of such veterans as Zhuchkovsky or Girkin is really not a good practice--it is akin to making operational decisions on El-Murid's "analysis".

    I follow Girkin on social media. He’s been in Donbass for weeks, as a private citizen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I follow Girkin on social media. He’s been in Donbass for weeks, as a private citizen.
     
    It would have been better if he, as a private citizen, would learn how Putin operates as well as what kind of briefings he has from Defense Minister, Chief of General Staff and Director of FSB. I am sure then Girkin would stick to his level of understanding of geopolitical and military realities, which is the level of NCO.
  50. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Rurik

    Crimea was never a so-called “Muslim” state:
     
    it's complicated

    for hundreds of years, Crimean Tartars (seemingly a mix of Turk and Mongol) waged raids on Christian Russians and Poles and Lithuanians and others to seize and capture millions of Christians to sell as slaves to the Muslims

    this from Wiki

    Fisher estimates that in the sixteenth century the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth lost around 20,000 individuals a year and that from 1474 to 1694, as many as a million Commonwealth citizens were carried off into Crimean slavery.[11]


    ... Both female and male slaves were often used for sexual purposes.[10]

    and of course, children as well

    The Jewish population was concentrated in Çufut Kale ('Jewish Fortress'),... ... Crimean law granted them special financial and political rights as a reward, according to local folklore, for historic services rendered to an uluhane (first wife of a Khan). The Jews in Crimea were actively involved in the slave trade.[10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate

    more:

    http://www.academia.edu/2971600/Slave_Trade_in_the_Early_Modern_Crimea_From_the_Perspective_of_Christian_Muslim_and_Jewish_Sources

    The fact there are about 250,00 Tatars living in peace today in Christian Crimea attests to the fact of the tolerance of Christians and Russians.
     
    I would say so, but I suspect the rabid dog of Islam pines for better days

    The Cossacks also sold Ukrainian peasants to the Tatars by the hundred thousand. Slavery financed Khlemnitsky. So what is your point about the Jews exactly? Hate speech?

    Before it was Tatar it was Greek. Vladimir was baptized there, allegedly, as a Byzantine Prince rather than an independent king. He was allowed a temporary “conquest” to muddy the waters.

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    • Replies: @gerad
    No such thing as "Ukrainian" peasants at the time you lying dimwit
    , @Rurik

    So what is your point about the Jews exactly?
     
    I suppose it was rather gratuitous to add that little quip about Jews prominent in the slave trade

    I guess I'm just a little fatigued by the relentless, tiresome, exhausting, (did I say relentless) haranguing and scolding of all us white Americans over black slavery, for which Jews were also very prominent, and yet get zero condemnation, whereas every white child born in the US (and presumably everywhere else) is supposed to prostrate themselves with unbearable guilt for their terrible crime of slavery.

    I just find that particular Hollywood Jewish imposed smear a little bit hypocritical, I suppose.

    we should all do what we can to remind these Hollywood Jews trying to stain our collective character that they are and have always been the ultimate racists and traditional slave traders throughout history. Including the black slave trade in the Americas.

    Wouldn't you agree?
  51. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @RadicalCenter
    You're right, Rehmat, Russia should exterminate the Chechens, Dagestanis, and other Muslim savages in the Caucasus, so that that area does not resemble a sultanate.

    Or they could merely be deported to a brotherly Muslim country that cares so much about their fellow Muslims. You know, just like Muslim countries have accepted millions of Muslim refugees as permanent settlers rather than having them go rape, intimidate, kill, and bully in Europe. Not.

    Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually – Jackson’s Trail of Tears).

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    Sounds so righteous! Could you provide some evidence for "prouder history of genocide" in Russia?
    Perhaps you need first to read this book:
    "Two Hundred Years Together was written by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the famous Russian dissident who won a Nobel Prize for Literature. It is about the time of the Russians and the Jews inside the empire. The together of the title refers to Russians and Jews. The first volume was Russian-Jewish History 1795-1916. The second was called The Jews in the Soviet Union. So it is clear enough why the Jews were never going to like what he had to say..... This book is so Feared by World Zionist Jewry, that they have refused to translate it into English to this very day, the World Over. It’s been translated into German and French only, from the original Russian."
    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/

    "English politically correct descriptions of the book (such as in Wikipedia) often dismiss it as unreliable (with criticisms of the book instead being described as reliable) and accuse Solzhenitsyn of being influenced by Russian Nationalism without mentioning that many of the critics are Jewish. The book has still not been completely translated into English which has been seen as due to its controversial contents. However, partial translations are available." http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Two_Hundred_Years_Together

    Freedom of speech, Soarintothesky? Or "facts have anti-Jewish bias?"
    , @Avery
    {Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually – Jackson’s Trail of Tears).}

    No it doesn't.
    No they don't.

    And Jackson's Trail of Tears was no genocide.
    It was lots of things - all bad: but was no genocide.
    Do you even know what genocide is?

    , @gerad
    errrrmmmm.....no they don't you dumb prick. Russia is a peaceful,uniting nation. As imperialists in the previous centuries they saved more people than the British,French,Belgium,American and Spanish mass-murdering imperialists you dimwit.

    Russians don't do genocide
  52. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Marcus
    Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it's fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn't worth a single Russian life. Focus on defending the Ukraine, offer RF citizenship to the "Novorussians" instead of continuing to fight for secession, that would offset some of the Muslim immigration and improve relations with Ukraine.

    But, certainly prior to the insurgency, there were more people identifying as Ukrainians than Russians in Donbass. Yes, some mining villages around Lugansk scored 90% Russian and Gorlivka had a lot of Russians but the city centres and countryside were Ukrainian. Taking over Donbass by offering citizenship South Ossetian style, wouldn’t work. It wasn’t a locally generated uprising. Orthodox fascists from Serbia to Estonia turned up to provoke it into life. Novorossiya was very Sputnik i Pogrom in conception.

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  53. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @The Alarmist

    "Russia needs to withdraw from Syria, sure it’s fun to poke the US and its proxies in the eye, but saving an Arab regime isn’t worth a single Russian life. "
     
    You seem to have missed the point that the loss of Assad would allow for pipelines to be built through Syria from the Arabian Peninsula to Europe, and thereby allow for Russia's sales of energy products to Europe to be undercut by the US's paymasters. Seen in that context, the current geopolitical alignments make perfect sense.

    Russia has promised Qatar a pipeline in return for Qatar stopping support to the rebels. This was agreed.

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  54. Philip Owen [AKA "Soarintothesky"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @bluedog
    Hmm and just what are Putin's lies on the Crimea and no not some abstract article out of the Western press or NATO for in reality they are one and the same,what we do know is we spent some 5 billion dollars to overthrow an elected president in a coup what we do know is Vicky's famous saying "Fuck the EU Yats is our man", a quartermaster is one who issues supplies but in your case the supplies seem to be useless propaganda.!!!

    “we spent some 5 billion dollars to overthrow an elected president” Bullshit. That’s not what Nuland said. That’s not what happened. The US spent $5Bn setting up some kind of functioning country in Ukraine. Laws, lawyers, business training, VC funds, scholarshps, breadmaking and distribution, decommissionng nukes, Chernobyl clean up etc etc. In Russia, the US spent $10 Bn, the EU $10Bn and the UK and Germany $5Bn each. You are soft headed or a Russian propaganda agent, if an unpaid volunteer, both.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {That’s not what happened.}

    Yes: that's what happened.


    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/25/fzgps.01.html

    [George Soros, pleasure to have you on.

    GEORGE SOROS, AUTHOR, "THE TRAGEDY OF THE EUROPEAN UNION": Same here.

    ZAKARIA: First on Ukraine, one of the things that many people recognized about you was that you during the revolutions of 1989 funded a lot of dissident activities, civil society groups in eastern Europe and Poland, the Czech Republic. Are you doing similar things in Ukraine?

    SOROS: Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since and played an important part in events now. ]
    , @gerad
    In Russia, the west took out trillions you idiot. Russia has over the last few years effectively given Ukraine 250 billion....Ukraine is a nation of leeches and beggars in administration and with moron s like you in the comments section.

    She said on building "democracy" the 5 billion....that is just BS talk for subverting Russia you cretin. Decommsioning Nukes would seem a very loose linking to " building up democratic institutions"

    The gas wars, overcharging Russia on Naval base lease extension, not recognising South Ossetia, idiotically having only Ukrainian as the State Language, BS in education, financing moron "activists", financing moron Nazis, the revisionism of Bandera,the UPA and several other things is primarily due to USA decision-making you POS.

    The US hedged their bets with Yanukovich in the years before his 2010 election, seeing how Yushchenko and Timoshenko were an absurdity.....they didn't do anything against him until after he decided that it was a suicidal decision to want to sign the stupid EU Association Agreement
  55. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Philip Owen
    I follow Girkin on social media. He's been in Donbass for weeks, as a private citizen.

    I follow Girkin on social media. He’s been in Donbass for weeks, as a private citizen.

    It would have been better if he, as a private citizen, would learn how Putin operates as well as what kind of briefings he has from Defense Minister, Chief of General Staff and Director of FSB. I am sure then Girkin would stick to his level of understanding of geopolitical and military realities, which is the level of NCO.

    Read More
  56. @Philip Owen


    Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually - Jackson's Trail of Tears).

    Sounds so righteous! Could you provide some evidence for “prouder history of genocide” in Russia?
    Perhaps you need first to read this book:
    Two Hundred Years Together was written by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the famous Russian dissident who won a Nobel Prize for Literature. It is about the time of the Russians and the Jews inside the empire. The together of the title refers to Russians and Jews. The first volume was Russian-Jewish History 1795-1916. The second was called The Jews in the Soviet Union. So it is clear enough why the Jews were never going to like what he had to say….. This book is so Feared by World Zionist Jewry, that they have refused to translate it into English to this very day, the World Over. It’s been translated into German and French only, from the original Russian.”

    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/

    “English politically correct descriptions of the book (such as in Wikipedia) often dismiss it as unreliable (with criticisms of the book instead being described as reliable) and accuse Solzhenitsyn of being influenced by Russian Nationalism without mentioning that many of the critics are Jewish. The book has still not been completely translated into English which has been seen as due to its controversial contents. However, partial translations are available.” http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Two_Hundred_Years_Together

    Freedom of speech, Soarintothesky? Or “facts have anti-Jewish bias?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @gerad
    Relax Anna,

    that cretin you are replying to is a sockpuppet of another lying troll. They are out to waste your time by occupying their imbecilic lifes
  57. @Rurik

    He’s calling all Ukrainians “ukronazis”, it seems
     
    I agree

    there are very many, very legitimate grievances that the people of Ukraine have towards Russia

    most specifically Russia's unwillingness to repudiate the atrocities that the Soviet Red Army (and demonic, genocidal NKVD) visited upon the people of Ukraine (and elsewhere) during that mass-genocidal insanity called the Soviet Regime. (especially under the fiend Stalin)

    this is not a cartoon-like, one-sided conflict where everyone on one side is lily white and the others are pure villains. It just seems like that to us in the West because we see how Kyiv is allied with the Zio-Fiend, that that makes them and all their supporters look utterly villainous- when it's more nuanced than that.

    There are lingering hostilities that are sub-currents in this conflict (like most) that are not black and white.

    The Ukrainian nationals have a legitimate right to self-determination (just like all peoples)

    the former government in Kyiv was notoriously corrupt, even by Ukraine's standards, and was aligned with Russia, (also notoriously corrupt) and often to the detriment of the aspirations and hopes of the Ukrainians in the Western part of the region.

    That Putin is the only adult on the geo-political stage, makes some of us guilty of a knee-jerk support for all of his policies, but I for one, would like to see him publically and vocally denounce the terrors of the Red Army [rapists], and suggest that more of the ethic Russians (that were cynically imported into places like Estonia by the Soviets to undermine the demographic homogeneity and ethnic and cultural harmony) of the satellite states- make an effort to learn the local languages and customs and assimilate.

    This will help disarm the war pigs in the West who're cynically using these natural fault lines to foment strife and hatred and bloodshed and war, (their calling cards)

    https://i1.wp.com/info.kopp-verlag.de/data/image/Robert%20Parry/2015-08/Die%20Kagans/Aufzeichnen.JPG

    The Ukrainian people are good people. The Russian people are good people. The Russians are simply lucky to have a leader that's looking out for them while the Ukrainians are languishing under a quisling even worse than what they had, because this Porky pig is a tool of the Beast. The Fiend. And nothing good can come from that.

    If I were a religions man, I'd pray for all those people, and hope that somehow they can see though the machinations and demonic schemes of the Fiend (Zio-Anglo-banksters and war pigs)

    it's those Kagans and others like them that are the deadliest enemies of both the Russian and Ukrainian (and American and European) peoples

    we should not allow them to do a 'let's you and him fight' to us all, like they did in the last century (while they gloat at the fratricidal slaughter-fest and count their shekels)

    http://d1ok8mf0twoy0u.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/dancing-rabbis-crown-heights.jpg

    Putin seems to be the only one who can quash this madness. I wish him God speed in doing so.

    Nuanced it is, as is everything. Yes, there are good Ukrainians just like there are good Americans and of course good jews and muslims too. There are good and bad amongst all people. It really comes down to who is driving the bus and where they are taking the people on it.

    I don’t have a problem with The Saker using the term Ukronazis and I too wish the Russian people well with Putin in the driver’s seat. The war agenda is a pricey ticket to nowhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    I thought that it was blatantly obvious that scum attacking Eastern Ukraine should be called Ukronazis, even if a portion of the troops is the Ukrainian "regular" army. There is no proof that Saker refes to all Ukrainians as Nazis. This Ukronazi waffle is just a beat up, because they have nothing to criticise so they beat up.

    I propose a new term for "they" who make the fuss: Zionazis. After all one or more Zionist Jewish dual citizens of Ukraine have been financing and organizing Nazi battalions in Ukraine t kill the Russian speaking Ukrainians. Is Zionazi not the right term for them then, including their Hasbara servants here?
  58. @Richard S
    There is an edit function, numb nuts. You have 5 minutes after posting.

    I no longer see an edit function as before, just a preview function. Is it just me? It’s enough.

    Read More
  59. @Philip Owen


    Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually - Jackson's Trail of Tears).

    {Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually – Jackson’s Trail of Tears).}

    No it doesn’t.
    No they don’t.

    And Jackson’s Trail of Tears was no genocide.
    It was lots of things – all bad: but was no genocide.
    Do you even know what genocide is?

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    He knows very few things, and those he does know he lies about anyway.
  60. @Philip Owen


    "we spent some 5 billion dollars to overthrow an elected president" Bullshit. That's not what Nuland said. That's not what happened. The US spent $5Bn setting up some kind of functioning country in Ukraine. Laws, lawyers, business training, VC funds, scholarshps, breadmaking and distribution, decommissionng nukes, Chernobyl clean up etc etc. In Russia, the US spent $10 Bn, the EU $10Bn and the UK and Germany $5Bn each. You are soft headed or a Russian propaganda agent, if an unpaid volunteer, both.

    {That’s not what happened.}

    Yes: that’s what happened.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/25/fzgps.01.html

    [George Soros, pleasure to have you on.

    GEORGE SOROS, AUTHOR, "THE TRAGEDY OF THE EUROPEAN UNION": Same here.

    ZAKARIA: First on Ukraine, one of the things that many people recognized about you was that you during the revolutions of 1989 funded a lot of dissident activities, civil society groups in eastern Europe and Poland, the Czech Republic. Are you doing similar things in Ukraine?

    SOROS: Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since and played an important part in events now. ]

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  61. @RadicalCenter
    Jim, please notice that I was correcting my own comment, not someone else's. Hardly a grammar nazi to try to correct my own mistake.

    And yes, civilizational is fairly widely used and easily understood.

    Nothing worse than someone who gets it wrong and needlessly calls someone a grammar nazi like a little bitch. Is little bitch grammatically acceptable to YOU, Jim, grammar faggot?

    RadCen was clearly abused as a child and he projects his fondest wishes for himself onto others. Still, he’s a Nazi. Sometimes, you just can’t make this stuff up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Are in an Olympic competition to stoop as low as possible? You win gold, tough guy.

    My wife and children and I just finished a two-week visit to my mother and father, who were both wonderful and loving parents. Yours probably were too, I hope, and see, unlike you, I wouldn't speculate about child abuse and the like.

    Have fun.
    , @RadicalCenter
    You got me, JC. I'm a nazi. As is my Asian wife and our mixed-race, Tagalog- and Spanish-speaking children. Typical Nazi, that woman, and it's her aryan genes and viewpoint that attracted me to her.

    It's okay for someone to just be wrong, in your view, without them being a "Nazi." Most people much past college age Know that (well, at least outside California).
  62. @NoseytheDuke
    Nuanced it is, as is everything. Yes, there are good Ukrainians just like there are good Americans and of course good jews and muslims too. There are good and bad amongst all people. It really comes down to who is driving the bus and where they are taking the people on it.

    I don't have a problem with The Saker using the term Ukronazis and I too wish the Russian people well with Putin in the driver's seat. The war agenda is a pricey ticket to nowhere.

    I thought that it was blatantly obvious that scum attacking Eastern Ukraine should be called Ukronazis, even if a portion of the troops is the Ukrainian “regular” army. There is no proof that Saker refes to all Ukrainians as Nazis. This Ukronazi waffle is just a beat up, because they have nothing to criticise so they beat up.

    I propose a new term for “they” who make the fuss: Zionazis. After all one or more Zionist Jewish dual citizens of Ukraine have been financing and organizing Nazi battalions in Ukraine t kill the Russian speaking Ukrainians. Is Zionazi not the right term for them then, including their Hasbara servants here?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    There is no proof that Saker refes to all Ukrainians as Nazis

     

    good enough for me

    from what I've seen, there are self-proclaimed Nazis over there, and sympathetic to the Zio-quisling regime in Kyiv.

    Even if that seems a little contradictory. I thought that what defines a Nazi, more than anything in this world, was an irrational and all-consuming hatred of Jews (simply because they are Jews and practice a different religion). And whose defining principle was a need to kill all Jews (and all non-Aryans and gays). Now it seems that Nazis are taking orders from Zionist Jews, and are being ordered to kill other white Christians on behalf of billionaire Jewish oligarchs.

    I sort of go WTF

    it all seems like madness over there

    I've wondered about a solution. I've wondered if they should simply divide the country up so that the ethic Russian speakers could look to the East and the ethnic Ukrainians can strengthen ties to the West. But then I fear the Ukrainians would join NATO and instead of a region as a bulwark against the Fiend vs. Russia, you'd have only an arbitrary line in the dirt dividing Putin's Russia from the war-crazed, irrational drooling Beast. And I don't think that would be good either.

    So it's like these pitiable people are forced to struggle against each other for the benefit of mankind. And that doesn't seem fair either.

    reminds me of a 1970s Star Trek episode, Committed to Hatred

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MQrL_ABE0
  63. @Avery
    {Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually – Jackson’s Trail of Tears).}

    No it doesn't.
    No they don't.

    And Jackson's Trail of Tears was no genocide.
    It was lots of things - all bad: but was no genocide.
    Do you even know what genocide is?

    He knows very few things, and those he does know he lies about anyway.

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  64. @Philip Owen


    Russia and its predecessors has an even prouder history of genocide than the USA (which only managed it once actually - Jackson's Trail of Tears).

    errrrmmmm…..no they don’t you dumb prick. Russia is a peaceful,uniting nation. As imperialists in the previous centuries they saved more people than the British,French,Belgium,American and Spanish mass-murdering imperialists you dimwit.

    Russians don’t do genocide

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Russians don’t do genocide
     
    ever hear of the Holodomor?

    that was not just a genocide, but a beyond-cruel and sadistic atrocity that defies human comprehension

    they could have just shot those people, (the cost of trucking all of their food far off was more than the cost of the bullets, but instead they wanted to starve them to death slowly, to make them suffer excruciating misery and be force to watch their children starve too.

    And their crime? They were people of ability who were the best farmers and food producers in the entire region. For that they starved them to death by the millions.

    it takes a special kind of otherworldly craven evil to do such things. I don't know of anything quite as monstrous, and that's saying a lot!

    but then, I don't really blame Russians per se, for that unspeakable crime against reason and compassion. I blame the Bolsheviks and the NKVD demons who were in charge.

    The Russians of that time were like the Americans today. Under the thrall of the Fiend. And just like the Russian of that time, the Americans today are also committing and funding and foisting atrocities for sheer, Talmudic cruelty's sake. Only not nearly on that scale.

    Russia should repudiate the unprecedented crime of the Holodomor. It would go a long way towards reconciliation between those two peoples and might prevent a nuclear war.
  65. @annamaria
    Sounds so righteous! Could you provide some evidence for "prouder history of genocide" in Russia?
    Perhaps you need first to read this book:
    "Two Hundred Years Together was written by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the famous Russian dissident who won a Nobel Prize for Literature. It is about the time of the Russians and the Jews inside the empire. The together of the title refers to Russians and Jews. The first volume was Russian-Jewish History 1795-1916. The second was called The Jews in the Soviet Union. So it is clear enough why the Jews were never going to like what he had to say..... This book is so Feared by World Zionist Jewry, that they have refused to translate it into English to this very day, the World Over. It’s been translated into German and French only, from the original Russian."
    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/

    "English politically correct descriptions of the book (such as in Wikipedia) often dismiss it as unreliable (with criticisms of the book instead being described as reliable) and accuse Solzhenitsyn of being influenced by Russian Nationalism without mentioning that many of the critics are Jewish. The book has still not been completely translated into English which has been seen as due to its controversial contents. However, partial translations are available." http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Two_Hundred_Years_Together

    Freedom of speech, Soarintothesky? Or "facts have anti-Jewish bias?"

    Relax Anna,

    that cretin you are replying to is a sockpuppet of another lying troll. They are out to waste your time by occupying their imbecilic lifes

    Read More
  66. @RadicalCenter
    He's calling all Ukrainians "ukronazis", it seems, who are opposed to substantial Russian involvement and influence in Ukraine, opposed to true autonomy or independence for the donbass region, or simply hateful towards Russians.

    While I agree with his analysis almost entirely based on what I know so far, it still calls many, many people nazis who are nothing of the sort, and it has IN FACT turned off people to whom I've sent his columns and made them less receptive.

    Your definition means people who are willing to let Ukrainian Ultra-nationalists kill russophiles/Russians ….of course Ukro-Nazis is an appropriate term you dimwit….and who cares about any cretins who are turned off by you linking or not linking a piece?

    Read More
  67. Because I care about persuading them to something closer to our (your and my) position on the Ukraine crisis. This is not difficult to understand.

    Read More
  68. @Philip Owen


    "we spent some 5 billion dollars to overthrow an elected president" Bullshit. That's not what Nuland said. That's not what happened. The US spent $5Bn setting up some kind of functioning country in Ukraine. Laws, lawyers, business training, VC funds, scholarshps, breadmaking and distribution, decommissionng nukes, Chernobyl clean up etc etc. In Russia, the US spent $10 Bn, the EU $10Bn and the UK and Germany $5Bn each. You are soft headed or a Russian propaganda agent, if an unpaid volunteer, both.

    In Russia, the west took out trillions you idiot. Russia has over the last few years effectively given Ukraine 250 billion….Ukraine is a nation of leeches and beggars in administration and with moron s like you in the comments section.

    She said on building “democracy” the 5 billion….that is just BS talk for subverting Russia you cretin. Decommsioning Nukes would seem a very loose linking to ” building up democratic institutions”

    The gas wars, overcharging Russia on Naval base lease extension, not recognising South Ossetia, idiotically having only Ukrainian as the State Language, BS in education, financing moron “activists”, financing moron Nazis, the revisionism of Bandera,the UPA and several other things is primarily due to USA decision-making you POS.

    The US hedged their bets with Yanukovich in the years before his 2010 election, seeing how Yushchenko and Timoshenko were an absurdity…..they didn’t do anything against him until after he decided that it was a suicidal decision to want to sign the stupid EU Association Agreement

    Read More
  69. @Philip Owen


    The Cossacks also sold Ukrainian peasants to the Tatars by the hundred thousand. Slavery financed Khlemnitsky. So what is your point about the Jews exactly? Hate speech?

    Before it was Tatar it was Greek. Vladimir was baptized there, allegedly, as a Byzantine Prince rather than an independent king. He was allowed a temporary "conquest" to muddy the waters.

    No such thing as “Ukrainian” peasants at the time you lying dimwit

    Read More
  70. @Kiza
    I thought that it was blatantly obvious that scum attacking Eastern Ukraine should be called Ukronazis, even if a portion of the troops is the Ukrainian "regular" army. There is no proof that Saker refes to all Ukrainians as Nazis. This Ukronazi waffle is just a beat up, because they have nothing to criticise so they beat up.

    I propose a new term for "they" who make the fuss: Zionazis. After all one or more Zionist Jewish dual citizens of Ukraine have been financing and organizing Nazi battalions in Ukraine t kill the Russian speaking Ukrainians. Is Zionazi not the right term for them then, including their Hasbara servants here?

    There is no proof that Saker refes to all Ukrainians as Nazis

    good enough for me

    from what I’ve seen, there are self-proclaimed Nazis over there, and sympathetic to the Zio-quisling regime in Kyiv.

    Even if that seems a little contradictory. I thought that what defines a Nazi, more than anything in this world, was an irrational and all-consuming hatred of Jews (simply because they are Jews and practice a different religion). And whose defining principle was a need to kill all Jews (and all non-Aryans and gays). Now it seems that Nazis are taking orders from Zionist Jews, and are being ordered to kill other white Christians on behalf of billionaire Jewish oligarchs.

    I sort of go WTF

    it all seems like madness over there

    I’ve wondered about a solution. I’ve wondered if they should simply divide the country up so that the ethic Russian speakers could look to the East and the ethnic Ukrainians can strengthen ties to the West. But then I fear the Ukrainians would join NATO and instead of a region as a bulwark against the Fiend vs. Russia, you’d have only an arbitrary line in the dirt dividing Putin’s Russia from the war-crazed, irrational drooling Beast. And I don’t think that would be good either.

    So it’s like these pitiable people are forced to struggle against each other for the benefit of mankind. And that doesn’t seem fair either.

    reminds me of a 1970s Star Trek episode, Committed to Hatred

    Read More
  71. Agree with you on dividing Ukraine but as to NATO, it should be disbanded and should have been long ago. The only way Russia could ever fall is by being taken over from within, as before.

    Read More
  72. @Philip Owen


    The Cossacks also sold Ukrainian peasants to the Tatars by the hundred thousand. Slavery financed Khlemnitsky. So what is your point about the Jews exactly? Hate speech?

    Before it was Tatar it was Greek. Vladimir was baptized there, allegedly, as a Byzantine Prince rather than an independent king. He was allowed a temporary "conquest" to muddy the waters.

    So what is your point about the Jews exactly?

    I suppose it was rather gratuitous to add that little quip about Jews prominent in the slave trade

    I guess I’m just a little fatigued by the relentless, tiresome, exhausting, (did I say relentless) haranguing and scolding of all us white Americans over black slavery, for which Jews were also very prominent, and yet get zero condemnation, whereas every white child born in the US (and presumably everywhere else) is supposed to prostrate themselves with unbearable guilt for their terrible crime of slavery.

    I just find that particular Hollywood Jewish imposed smear a little bit hypocritical, I suppose.

    we should all do what we can to remind these Hollywood Jews trying to stain our collective character that they are and have always been the ultimate racists and traditional slave traders throughout history. Including the black slave trade in the Americas.

    Wouldn’t you agree?

    Read More
  73. @gerad
    errrrmmmm.....no they don't you dumb prick. Russia is a peaceful,uniting nation. As imperialists in the previous centuries they saved more people than the British,French,Belgium,American and Spanish mass-murdering imperialists you dimwit.

    Russians don't do genocide

    Russians don’t do genocide

    ever hear of the Holodomor?

    that was not just a genocide, but a beyond-cruel and sadistic atrocity that defies human comprehension

    they could have just shot those people, (the cost of trucking all of their food far off was more than the cost of the bullets, but instead they wanted to starve them to death slowly, to make them suffer excruciating misery and be force to watch their children starve too.

    And their crime? They were people of ability who were the best farmers and food producers in the entire region. For that they starved them to death by the millions.

    it takes a special kind of otherworldly craven evil to do such things. I don’t know of anything quite as monstrous, and that’s saying a lot!

    but then, I don’t really blame Russians per se, for that unspeakable crime against reason and compassion. I blame the Bolsheviks and the NKVD demons who were in charge.

    The Russians of that time were like the Americans today. Under the thrall of the Fiend. And just like the Russian of that time, the Americans today are also committing and funding and foisting atrocities for sheer, Talmudic cruelty’s sake. Only not nearly on that scale.

    Russia should repudiate the unprecedented crime of the Holodomor. It would go a long way towards reconciliation between those two peoples and might prevent a nuclear war.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Rurik,

    Welcome back. Yeah, I don't like it when people talk in absolutes. Almost every large group in history has committed something along the lines of genocide, seems to be a right-of-passage into eventual nationhood.

    One word "Circassians":
    http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/product/Circassian-Genocide,362.aspx

    Of course, everyone was moving unwanted populations around at that time - it was a very cruel era. I believe Italy ushered in the era of the first concentration camps in its colonial ambitions in Libya and Somaliland (this is the age when you have literal photographic evidence of these crimes that the governments themselves took) - though another nation may have beat them to it by a few years.

    Peace.

  74. As must have been written a million times on Russians and English language forums…..or spoken a million times in conversations…..millions of Russians and Kazakhs died from famine at the same time under the same system. Many ethnic Ukrainians enforced this policy on the ground.

    Russia doesn’t need to do anything . It wrote of billions in debt from all these countries under Communism. GAVE them their independence PEACEFULLY, has done more than enough concilatory actions….and repudiated the Soviet system (rightly or wrongly) by getting rid of it. An awful lot of Communist monuments have been eradicated in Russia too.

    Read More
  75. An awful lot of Communist monuments have been eradicated in Russia too.

    and if Estonia or Latvia or Poland were to remove one of these Soviet monuments to the Red Army rapists that profane the lands of the men and women who fought to keep these animals off their sacred ground, and began to remove these abominations to reason and decency, how does the Russian government react?

    I’ll tell you how. They pee their pants and screech and rage, red-faced and wave white-knuckled fists in the air.

    http://sputniknews.com/russia/20070118/59327198.html

    the Russians froth that the heroic men who fought the Red Army rapists were “Nazis!” and “fascists!” and whose memory should not be honored by their descendants. And that rather, it is the Red Army rapists whose monuments should continue to profane those people’s town squares and places of honor.

    this is a recipe for disaster and a major reason why the former satellite states are cozying up to the Fiend and NATO, because the Russians want to pound their chest and demand that they saved the world from the Nazis. But they forget that the Red Army rapists and genocidal goons and thugs were even worse than the Nazis, as places like Katyn attest to.

    So there really needs to be some positive soul-searching over there in Russia. They need to understand that had they not fallen under the cruel ravages of the Bolsheviks, that the Nazis never would have carved up Poland, or marched on Stalingrad. It was the Bolsheviks that were crazed imperialists who wanted global domination. And the Nazis were an answer to them

    When the Russian leadership and people finally understand this, then there will be the peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gerad
    Your post is even dumber than that "soarintothesewer" cretin.

    The Red Army liberated these idiots. Poland would not have a state, an expended territory of a state I should add....were it not for the Red Army. They would all be killed by the Nazis if not for the wonderful Red Army. It is quite simple...if you fight with or along with the Nazis.....or honour those who do...who are accused of mass- murder...then it is wholly right to be called fascists and Nazi's by the Russians.

    What does Bolshevism have to do with Hitler taking France Holland,Belgium,Luxembourg,Norway and so on?

    I never said Red Army memorials were removed in Russia....only certain Soviet and Stalin-specific monuments

    Katyn is heavily disputed, and a small dot compared to the carnage of the Nazi's in Poland...it is a non-event

    "Cosying up" to the west in these morons minds still means having Russia as their number one trading partner
  76. @Rurik

    Russians don’t do genocide
     
    ever hear of the Holodomor?

    that was not just a genocide, but a beyond-cruel and sadistic atrocity that defies human comprehension

    they could have just shot those people, (the cost of trucking all of their food far off was more than the cost of the bullets, but instead they wanted to starve them to death slowly, to make them suffer excruciating misery and be force to watch their children starve too.

    And their crime? They were people of ability who were the best farmers and food producers in the entire region. For that they starved them to death by the millions.

    it takes a special kind of otherworldly craven evil to do such things. I don't know of anything quite as monstrous, and that's saying a lot!

    but then, I don't really blame Russians per se, for that unspeakable crime against reason and compassion. I blame the Bolsheviks and the NKVD demons who were in charge.

    The Russians of that time were like the Americans today. Under the thrall of the Fiend. And just like the Russian of that time, the Americans today are also committing and funding and foisting atrocities for sheer, Talmudic cruelty's sake. Only not nearly on that scale.

    Russia should repudiate the unprecedented crime of the Holodomor. It would go a long way towards reconciliation between those two peoples and might prevent a nuclear war.

    Hey Rurik,

    Welcome back. Yeah, I don’t like it when people talk in absolutes. Almost every large group in history has committed something along the lines of genocide, seems to be a right-of-passage into eventual nationhood.

    One word “Circassians”:

    http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/product/Circassian-Genocide,362.aspx

    Of course, everyone was moving unwanted populations around at that time – it was a very cruel era. I believe Italy ushered in the era of the first concentration camps in its colonial ambitions in Libya and Somaliland (this is the age when you have literal photographic evidence of these crimes that the governments themselves took) – though another nation may have beat them to it by a few years.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    Thank you Talha,

    Interesting..

    I had always thought that it was the British who had invented concentration camps to murder off the families of the Dutch farmers in S. Africa during the Boer war.

    they were unfortunate enough to have gold and diamond in the ground, and the Oppenheimers decided to send their British bitches (how little things change ; ) to kill them and steal the country and take possession of the gold and diamond mines.

    I guess the Italians beat them to it, eh?

    Peace
  77. @Rurik

    An awful lot of Communist monuments have been eradicated in Russia too.
     
    and if Estonia or Latvia or Poland were to remove one of these Soviet monuments to the Red Army rapists that profane the lands of the men and women who fought to keep these animals off their sacred ground, and began to remove these abominations to reason and decency, how does the Russian government react?

    I'll tell you how. They pee their pants and screech and rage, red-faced and wave white-knuckled fists in the air.

    http://sputniknews.com/russia/20070118/59327198.html

    the Russians froth that the heroic men who fought the Red Army rapists were "Nazis!" and "fascists!" and whose memory should not be honored by their descendants. And that rather, it is the Red Army rapists whose monuments should continue to profane those people's town squares and places of honor.

    this is a recipe for disaster and a major reason why the former satellite states are cozying up to the Fiend and NATO, because the Russians want to pound their chest and demand that they saved the world from the Nazis. But they forget that the Red Army rapists and genocidal goons and thugs were even worse than the Nazis, as places like Katyn attest to.

    So there really needs to be some positive soul-searching over there in Russia. They need to understand that had they not fallen under the cruel ravages of the Bolsheviks, that the Nazis never would have carved up Poland, or marched on Stalingrad. It was the Bolsheviks that were crazed imperialists who wanted global domination. And the Nazis were an answer to them

    When the Russian leadership and people finally understand this, then there will be the peace.

    Your post is even dumber than that “soarintothesewer” cretin.

    The Red Army liberated these idiots. Poland would not have a state, an expended territory of a state I should add….were it not for the Red Army. They would all be killed by the Nazis if not for the wonderful Red Army. It is quite simple…if you fight with or along with the Nazis…..or honour those who do…who are accused of mass- murder…then it is wholly right to be called fascists and Nazi’s by the Russians.

    What does Bolshevism have to do with Hitler taking France Holland,Belgium,Luxembourg,Norway and so on?

    I never said Red Army memorials were removed in Russia….only certain Soviet and Stalin-specific monuments

    Katyn is heavily disputed, and a small dot compared to the carnage of the Nazi’s in Poland…it is a non-event

    “Cosying up” to the west in these morons minds still means having Russia as their number one trading partner

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    The Red Army liberated these idiots. Poland would not have a state, an expended territory of a state I should add….were it not for the Red Army. They would all be killed by the Nazis if not for the wonderful Red Army. It is quite simple…if you fight with or along with the Nazis…..or honour those who do…who are accused of mass- murder…then it is wholly right to be called fascists and Nazi’s by the Russians.
     
    thank you gerad, for pointing out for us all the absolute villainy and dishonesty that is driving a wedge between Russia and the Satellite states, who remember the days of the Red Army rapists all too well.

    "It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes... we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions - especially selfish ones".

    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    also:

    "The battleline between good and evil runs through the heart of every man."

    ~ Solzhenitsyn

    What does Bolshevism have to do with Hitler taking France Holland,Belgium,Luxembourg,Norway and so on?
     
    well, um.. dummy

    this was a world war, and that meant that the Zionist Jewish bankers who had funded Trotsky and Lenin and the Bolsheviks and who had declared war on Germany also owned the governments of England and the US (just as they do today), were allied with the commie, Soviet genocidal monster Stalin in their crusade to destroy the anti-Semite Hitler. Duh

    if you're this dumb, what are you doing on this site sir?

    Katyn is heavily disputed,
     
    perhaps it isn't that you're a complete moron, as it surly seems. Perhaps you're just so ideologically driven that you can't see beyond your own cherished little fairy tale narratives, that bolster your ego and swell you all up with pride for all those Nazis you killed, and how you saved mankind from genocide. Wow, no wonder you're hurt at the truth of the Red Army rapists being hated from every land they ravaged. If the truth is that these murderous goons that raped every women and girl in sight, no matter if she was German or even a child, was to become common knowledge, then what would that do to your ego assuaging lies you tell yourself daily?

    No wonder Estonia wants NATO troops on its soil. Since you're a perfect example of the kind of Russian "thinking" that forced Hitler to march in and try to stomp your Orwellian lies dead before they brought Siberian gulag fruit, and tens of millions dead.

    Or are the tales of Siberian gulags also a "non-event"?
  78. @Talha
    Hey Rurik,

    Welcome back. Yeah, I don't like it when people talk in absolutes. Almost every large group in history has committed something along the lines of genocide, seems to be a right-of-passage into eventual nationhood.

    One word "Circassians":
    http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/product/Circassian-Genocide,362.aspx

    Of course, everyone was moving unwanted populations around at that time - it was a very cruel era. I believe Italy ushered in the era of the first concentration camps in its colonial ambitions in Libya and Somaliland (this is the age when you have literal photographic evidence of these crimes that the governments themselves took) - though another nation may have beat them to it by a few years.

    Peace.

    Thank you Talha,

    Interesting..

    I had always thought that it was the British who had invented concentration camps to murder off the families of the Dutch farmers in S. Africa during the Boer war.

    they were unfortunate enough to have gold and diamond in the ground, and the Oppenheimers decided to send their British bitches (how little things change ; ) to kill them and steal the country and take possession of the gold and diamond mines.

    I guess the Italians beat them to it, eh?

    Peace

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    • Replies: @5371
    The Spanish were the first to be accused of having them (by the US press) in trying to deal with the insurgency in Cuba. Italians after British.
  79. @gerad
    Your post is even dumber than that "soarintothesewer" cretin.

    The Red Army liberated these idiots. Poland would not have a state, an expended territory of a state I should add....were it not for the Red Army. They would all be killed by the Nazis if not for the wonderful Red Army. It is quite simple...if you fight with or along with the Nazis.....or honour those who do...who are accused of mass- murder...then it is wholly right to be called fascists and Nazi's by the Russians.

    What does Bolshevism have to do with Hitler taking France Holland,Belgium,Luxembourg,Norway and so on?

    I never said Red Army memorials were removed in Russia....only certain Soviet and Stalin-specific monuments

    Katyn is heavily disputed, and a small dot compared to the carnage of the Nazi's in Poland...it is a non-event

    "Cosying up" to the west in these morons minds still means having Russia as their number one trading partner

    The Red Army liberated these idiots. Poland would not have a state, an expended territory of a state I should add….were it not for the Red Army. They would all be killed by the Nazis if not for the wonderful Red Army. It is quite simple…if you fight with or along with the Nazis…..or honour those who do…who are accused of mass- murder…then it is wholly right to be called fascists and Nazi’s by the Russians.

    thank you gerad, for pointing out for us all the absolute villainy and dishonesty that is driving a wedge between Russia and the Satellite states, who remember the days of the Red Army rapists all too well.

    “It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes… we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions – especially selfish ones”.

    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    also:

    “The battleline between good and evil runs through the heart of every man.”

    ~ Solzhenitsyn

    What does Bolshevism have to do with Hitler taking France Holland,Belgium,Luxembourg,Norway and so on?

    well, um.. dummy

    this was a world war, and that meant that the Zionist Jewish bankers who had funded Trotsky and Lenin and the Bolsheviks and who had declared war on Germany also owned the governments of England and the US (just as they do today), were allied with the commie, Soviet genocidal monster Stalin in their crusade to destroy the anti-Semite Hitler. Duh

    if you’re this dumb, what are you doing on this site sir?

    Katyn is heavily disputed,

    perhaps it isn’t that you’re a complete moron, as it surly seems. Perhaps you’re just so ideologically driven that you can’t see beyond your own cherished little fairy tale narratives, that bolster your ego and swell you all up with pride for all those Nazis you killed, and how you saved mankind from genocide. Wow, no wonder you’re hurt at the truth of the Red Army rapists being hated from every land they ravaged. If the truth is that these murderous goons that raped every women and girl in sight, no matter if she was German or even a child, was to become common knowledge, then what would that do to your ego assuaging lies you tell yourself daily?

    No wonder Estonia wants NATO troops on its soil. Since you’re a perfect example of the kind of Russian “thinking” that forced Hitler to march in and try to stomp your Orwellian lies dead before they brought Siberian gulag fruit, and tens of millions dead.

    Or are the tales of Siberian gulags also a “non-event”?

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  80. @utu
    Russians got kicked out of Iran.

    Not according to Iranians or Russians.

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    • Replies: @utu
    “The Russian aircraft which flew missions from the Iranian Hamadan Airbase against terrorist targets in Syria have successfully completed [their tasks]. The warplanes are currently back in the Russian Federation,” Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Monday.
  81. @Rurik
    Thank you Talha,

    Interesting..

    I had always thought that it was the British who had invented concentration camps to murder off the families of the Dutch farmers in S. Africa during the Boer war.

    they were unfortunate enough to have gold and diamond in the ground, and the Oppenheimers decided to send their British bitches (how little things change ; ) to kill them and steal the country and take possession of the gold and diamond mines.

    I guess the Italians beat them to it, eh?

    Peace

    The Spanish were the first to be accused of having them (by the US press) in trying to deal with the insurgency in Cuba. Italians after British.

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  82. “Could this also indicate that the Russians have information that something major will happen with the Ukraine? Possibly. I sure don’t know, but it does look to me that they are preparing for something.”

    Then the question is, what is the nature of the Kavkaz 2016 training and to what extent it could be observed / monitored. I understand that Russia now wants to demarcate and strengthen its new borders (as well as exercise the military in the south western direction which is understandable), but one can’t possibly assume that this will not seem threatening (mildly put) to Ukraine.

    And now it appears that the whole Crimean deal really was “too good to be true”. The possibility for diversions is higher than initially assumed. Frankly, I thought it was a done deal, fait accompli, and that the only problem from now on would be to pacify Donetsk (if possible, find some sort of a political solution) and just accept that Ukraine has lost Crimea. But, unfortunately, the potential for hostilities in Crimea is higher. And it won’t even have to be something that Kiev organizes (if they really intend to do that) – it can, frankly, be anyone at this point (lone wolf nationalists who infiltrate from Ukraine, local citizens that aren’t happy, mercenaries, etc). That would be very sad. But what else could one expect given such large scale alterations of the Ukrainian territory?

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  83. @5371
    Not according to Iranians or Russians.

    “The Russian aircraft which flew missions from the Iranian Hamadan Airbase against terrorist targets in Syria have successfully completed [their tasks]. The warplanes are currently back in the Russian Federation,” Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Monday.

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    • Replies: @5371
    That is very different from "got kicked out".
  84. Talha, thanks for the link on Circassians. We shouldn’t forget those people. It’s just unthinkable what has been going on in the world (and still is). Every day one has to read about some injustice. I knew about them, but didn’t realize there were so many.

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  85. Rurik, I agree with some of what you’re saying, but surely you don’t believe Germany had no desire or intentions to invade Russia (which just proves how delusional they were). They had an agreement about who gets what, but, unsurprisingly, given the egomania involved, that fell apart. Germany had no business going any further than the Anschluss.

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  86. Hi Latvian woman,

    but surely you don’t believe Germany had no desire or intentions to invade Russia

    tomes have been written about this issue, and there is still debate am0ng historians of good will

    from what I’ve glimmered, Hitler and the Nazi’s militarism was due to a combination of things.

    the treacherous injustices Germany suffered at the end of the first world war

    the ravages Germans suffered under the Weimar Republic

    the persecutions German nationals were suffering in places like Danzig

    the intractable arrogance of the Polish colonels regarding a corridor to Danzig

    the will of so many German nationals in places like the Sudetenland and Volga regions to self-determination

    I believe that all peoples are entitled to self determination

    I believe that most of the strife that happens in the world does so when people are denied this fundamental imperative.

    Then also, there were the Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks were a murderous sect that had taken the Russian people ‘by the hair of the head’ – as Churchill put it, and were drowning them in their own blood. Men like Bela Kun in Hungary.

    Here is a short snippet from Wiki about the singularly evil Kun

    1920. Kun and Rosalia Zemlyachka, with Lenin’s approval, also executed around 50,000 White prisoners of war and civilians.[10] They had surrendered after having been promised amnesty.[11] While in control of the Crimea, Kun carried out a policy of mass arrests, executions and atrocities. In the process, between 60,000 and 70,000 inhabitants of the Crimea were shot.[12][13]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Kun

    these Bolsheviks seemed to have an otherworldly hatred for the people they were now ruling, with, as I once heard it described; the unstinted use of the machine gun. Not to mention rampant torture.

    There was a reason the citizens of Poland and Hungary and other places were quick to hand over the communist Jews to the Nazis once they were “liberated”, because they were reeling from the murderous cruelty of these Bolseviks that hated them so.

    I’ve mentioned the Holodomor, and I consider that a perfect example of the kind of hatred that the Bolsheviks had for the white Christian under their charge. They didn’t’ just want to kill them, they wanted to starve them to death slowly.

    Now, at the time Hitler came to power, these Bolsheviks were fighting for power in Germany. There were fist fights in the streets of Berlin, but the Nazis won the elections.

    It was a stark choice, to be sure. And many people had their reservations about Hitler’s rather extreme ethnocentrism, including Hindenburg himself. But once in office, Germany seemed to thrive. But this only infuriated the Bolsheviks controlling Russia even more.

    And what’s fulminated over, ever since, is the degree of Stalin’s designs on Poland and especially Germany.

    Did Stalin have intentions of attacking Germany, once Poland was ground under and Stalin was looking West. Certainly we all know of Stalin’s imperial designs by what was done at Yalta, and how he wanted all of Germany too. So the argument is that Hitler knew of Stalin’s intentions to take all of Europe into his tender mercies, and was simply trying to out-maneuver Stalin when he marched on Russia.

    How much of that is true? I don’t really know.

    But I do know of Stalin’s Satanic hatred for independent minded people of ability, and his infinite cruelty. I know of his megalomaniacal ego, his ambitions, and his utter ruthlessness.

    Was Hitler caught between a West under the thrall of New York Zionist bankers and a mass-murdering savage holed up in Russia? Sometimes it seems that way to me.

    Just like today, I see Putin’s Russia being squeezed by the same forces that were aligned against Hitler’s Germany.

    They simply can’t stand to have a leader of consequence who doesn’t toe their line. They’ll (the Zio-banksters) start wars and foist mindless slaughter simply for their amusement in their infinite and eternal, power-drunk need for total domination. Like they’ve been doing in the Middle East of late.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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  87. Rurik, I don’t want to start another controversial discussion about history (I mean, how were the Volksdeutsche entitled to some special status and, yes, the crimes of Komintern are terrible, but that doesn’t mean that the Germans’ had any right to invade Slavic lands, and, yes, I have read Suvorov about Stalin’s plans, etc, etc). There needs to be some historic agreement in Eastern Europe that all this will never be repeated (we shouldn’t be the “bloodlands” (c) T.Snyder). I know it’s a bit naive.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    how were the Volksdeutsche entitled to some special status
     
    I only said all people are entitled to self-determination

    no?

    that doesn’t mean that the Germans’ had any right to invade Slavic lands
     
    when those "Slavic" lands are Danzig, and inhabited by Volksdeutsche, who had lived there for centuries and built the cities and tilled the soil and traded with their neighbors in good will, but then are amputated from their people and culture and persecuted for their identity, then I don't call that self-determination. In fact I call that the opposite of self-determination.

    If Poland had allowed Germany to protect its German citizens in Danzig, (who were wrongly handed over to Poland at Versailles) then there might not have been a war at all. But due to hubris and arrogance, the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity, and thereby caused the war and subsequent horrors and Germans marching on Slavic land. All of which might very well have been avoided had some arrogant Slavs simply respected the rights of even Germans to self-determination.

    as for the suffering and endless affliction (there isn't a word that is sufficient to describe it) that were and are still being visited upon the tragic people in Eastern Europe, my heart truly and sincerely goes out to them.

    when you look at the history of these people, and realize how they've all been so horribly victimized by global forces not of their own doing, and are still being victimized today, it seems so wrong, and is so wrong.

    but they need to look at men like Kolomoisky who are using them like dogs- as Slavs kill other Slavs, and Kolmoisky laughs all the way to the Swiss bank.

    It saddens me to see a guy like that running things over there. I slap my forehead and try to think how the people of Ukraine can be such dupes. Perhaps over centuries of suffering the persecutions of people like Kolomoisky, the relationship has become ingrained, and the Slavs have become accustomed to being treated as less than human while the oligarchs loot them into destitution and order them to go kill other Christian Slavs.
  88. @utu
    “The Russian aircraft which flew missions from the Iranian Hamadan Airbase against terrorist targets in Syria have successfully completed [their tasks]. The warplanes are currently back in the Russian Federation,” Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Monday.

    That is very different from “got kicked out”.

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  89. @Latvian woman
    Rurik, I don't want to start another controversial discussion about history (I mean, how were the Volksdeutsche entitled to some special status and, yes, the crimes of Komintern are terrible, but that doesn't mean that the Germans' had any right to invade Slavic lands, and, yes, I have read Suvorov about Stalin's plans, etc, etc). There needs to be some historic agreement in Eastern Europe that all this will never be repeated (we shouldn't be the "bloodlands" (c) T.Snyder). I know it's a bit naive.

    how were the Volksdeutsche entitled to some special status

    I only said all people are entitled to self-determination

    no?

    that doesn’t mean that the Germans’ had any right to invade Slavic lands

    when those “Slavic” lands are Danzig, and inhabited by Volksdeutsche, who had lived there for centuries and built the cities and tilled the soil and traded with their neighbors in good will, but then are amputated from their people and culture and persecuted for their identity, then I don’t call that self-determination. In fact I call that the opposite of self-determination.

    If Poland had allowed Germany to protect its German citizens in Danzig, (who were wrongly handed over to Poland at Versailles) then there might not have been a war at all. But due to hubris and arrogance, the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity, and thereby caused the war and subsequent horrors and Germans marching on Slavic land. All of which might very well have been avoided had some arrogant Slavs simply respected the rights of even Germans to self-determination.

    as for the suffering and endless affliction (there isn’t a word that is sufficient to describe it) that were and are still being visited upon the tragic people in Eastern Europe, my heart truly and sincerely goes out to them.

    when you look at the history of these people, and realize how they’ve all been so horribly victimized by global forces not of their own doing, and are still being victimized today, it seems so wrong, and is so wrong.

    but they need to look at men like Kolomoisky who are using them like dogs- as Slavs kill other Slavs, and Kolmoisky laughs all the way to the Swiss bank.

    It saddens me to see a guy like that running things over there. I slap my forehead and try to think how the people of Ukraine can be such dupes. Perhaps over centuries of suffering the persecutions of people like Kolomoisky, the relationship has become ingrained, and the Slavs have become accustomed to being treated as less than human while the oligarchs loot them into destitution and order them to go kill other Christian Slavs.

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    • Replies: @utu
    "the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity" - Could you elaborate? Danzig was a Free City independent of Poland and Germany. Polish colonels had no control over Danzig.
  90. @Rurik

    how were the Volksdeutsche entitled to some special status
     
    I only said all people are entitled to self-determination

    no?

    that doesn’t mean that the Germans’ had any right to invade Slavic lands
     
    when those "Slavic" lands are Danzig, and inhabited by Volksdeutsche, who had lived there for centuries and built the cities and tilled the soil and traded with their neighbors in good will, but then are amputated from their people and culture and persecuted for their identity, then I don't call that self-determination. In fact I call that the opposite of self-determination.

    If Poland had allowed Germany to protect its German citizens in Danzig, (who were wrongly handed over to Poland at Versailles) then there might not have been a war at all. But due to hubris and arrogance, the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity, and thereby caused the war and subsequent horrors and Germans marching on Slavic land. All of which might very well have been avoided had some arrogant Slavs simply respected the rights of even Germans to self-determination.

    as for the suffering and endless affliction (there isn't a word that is sufficient to describe it) that were and are still being visited upon the tragic people in Eastern Europe, my heart truly and sincerely goes out to them.

    when you look at the history of these people, and realize how they've all been so horribly victimized by global forces not of their own doing, and are still being victimized today, it seems so wrong, and is so wrong.

    but they need to look at men like Kolomoisky who are using them like dogs- as Slavs kill other Slavs, and Kolmoisky laughs all the way to the Swiss bank.

    It saddens me to see a guy like that running things over there. I slap my forehead and try to think how the people of Ukraine can be such dupes. Perhaps over centuries of suffering the persecutions of people like Kolomoisky, the relationship has become ingrained, and the Slavs have become accustomed to being treated as less than human while the oligarchs loot them into destitution and order them to go kill other Christian Slavs.

    “the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity” – Could you elaborate? Danzig was a Free City independent of Poland and Germany. Polish colonels had no control over Danzig.

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    • Replies: @5371
    No, it was part of Poland, though its autonomy was protected by the League of Nations.
    , @Rurik


    “the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity”
     
    – Could you elaborate?
     
    Poland had conducted a policy of terror. Ethnic Germans living on German soil that had been given to Poland at the end of World War I by the Versailles Peace Treaty had been so mistreated that 2 million left the area for Germany and elsewhere.3 They were driven from what had been their homeland long before World War I. Leon Degrelle, a young Belgian political leader in the 1930s, and who later joined Hitler’s hardest fighting unit, the Waffen SS, with over 400,000 other non-German European volunteers, says, “Of all the crimes of World War II, one never hears about the wholesale massacres that occurred in Poland just before the war. Thousands of German men, women and children were massacred in the most horrendous fashion by press-enraged mobs. Hitler decided to halt the slaughter and he rushed to the rescue.”4 Young German boys, when captured by the Poles, were castrated.5

    William Joyce, nicknamed Lord Haw Haw by British propaganda, became a German citizen and took up for the German cause. He described the conditions of the Germans who were living in Poland because of the Versailles Treaty:

    German men and women were hunted like wild beasts through the streets of Bromberg. When they were caught, they were mutilated and torn to pieces by the Polish mob. . . . Every day the butchery increased. . . . [T]housands of Germans fled from their homes in Poland with nothing more than the clothes that they wore. Moreover, there was no doubt that the Polish army was making plans for the massacre of Danzig. . . . On the nights of August 25 to August 31 inclusive, there occurred, besides innumerable attacks on civilians of German blood, 44 perfectly authenticated acts of armed violence against German official persons and property. These incidents took place either on the border or inside German territory. On the night of [August 31], a band of Polish desperadoes actually occupied the German Broad casting Station at Gleiwitz. Now it was clear that unless German troops marched at once, not a man, woman or child of German blood within the Polish territory could reasonably expect to avoid persecution and slaughter.6



    Due to Poland’s atrocious acts against the German people, Hitler declared to British Ambassador Sir Nevile Henderson on August 25, 1939: “Poland’s provocations have become intolerable.”7


    So Poland delivered the first blow, not Germany.

    http://thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-History/+Doc-History-WW2Period/DidHitlerLoseTheWarBecauseHeWasTooSoft.htm

    basically they did to Hitler in Poland what they're trying to do to Putin in Ukraine. They're slaughtering ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine as bait to draw Putin in, the way Poland slaughtered ethnic Germans in Danzig and elsewhere to draw Hitler into a wider war.
  91. @Jim Christian
    RadCen was clearly abused as a child and he projects his fondest wishes for himself onto others. Still, he's a Nazi. Sometimes, you just can't make this stuff up.

    Are in an Olympic competition to stoop as low as possible? You win gold, tough guy.

    My wife and children and I just finished a two-week visit to my mother and father, who were both wonderful and loving parents. Yours probably were too, I hope, and see, unlike you, I wouldn’t speculate about child abuse and the like.

    Have fun.

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  92. @Jim Christian
    RadCen was clearly abused as a child and he projects his fondest wishes for himself onto others. Still, he's a Nazi. Sometimes, you just can't make this stuff up.

    You got me, JC. I’m a nazi. As is my Asian wife and our mixed-race, Tagalog- and Spanish-speaking children. Typical Nazi, that woman, and it’s her aryan genes and viewpoint that attracted me to her.

    It’s okay for someone to just be wrong, in your view, without them being a “Nazi.” Most people much past college age Know that (well, at least outside California).

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  93. @utu
    "the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity" - Could you elaborate? Danzig was a Free City independent of Poland and Germany. Polish colonels had no control over Danzig.

    No, it was part of Poland, though its autonomy was protected by the League of Nations.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Poland was responsible for borders and customs. There was Polish Post Office in Danzig but all other administration in Danzig including police was local not controlled by Poland.
  94. @RadicalCenter
    You got me, JC. I'm a nazi. As is my Asian wife and our mixed-race, Tagalog- and Spanish-speaking children. Typical Nazi, that woman, and it's her aryan genes and viewpoint that attracted me to her.

    It's okay for someone to just be wrong, in your view, without them being a "Nazi." Most people much past college age Know that (well, at least outside California).

    Cry me a cold river.

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  95. @utu
    "the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity" - Could you elaborate? Danzig was a Free City independent of Poland and Germany. Polish colonels had no control over Danzig.

    “the Polish colonels denied the citizens of Danzig their rightful dignity”

    – Could you elaborate?

    Poland had conducted a policy of terror. Ethnic Germans living on German soil that had been given to Poland at the end of World War I by the Versailles Peace Treaty had been so mistreated that 2 million left the area for Germany and elsewhere.3 They were driven from what had been their homeland long before World War I. Leon Degrelle, a young Belgian political leader in the 1930s, and who later joined Hitler’s hardest fighting unit, the Waffen SS, with over 400,000 other non-German European volunteers, says, “Of all the crimes of World War II, one never hears about the wholesale massacres that occurred in Poland just before the war. Thousands of German men, women and children were massacred in the most horrendous fashion by press-enraged mobs. Hitler decided to halt the slaughter and he rushed to the rescue.”4 Young German boys, when captured by the Poles, were castrated.5

    William Joyce, nicknamed Lord Haw Haw by British propaganda, became a German citizen and took up for the German cause. He described the conditions of the Germans who were living in Poland because of the Versailles Treaty:

    German men and women were hunted like wild beasts through the streets of Bromberg. When they were caught, they were mutilated and torn to pieces by the Polish mob. . . . Every day the butchery increased. . . . [T]housands of Germans fled from their homes in Poland with nothing more than the clothes that they wore. Moreover, there was no doubt that the Polish army was making plans for the massacre of Danzig. . . . On the nights of August 25 to August 31 inclusive, there occurred, besides innumerable attacks on civilians of German blood, 44 perfectly authenticated acts of armed violence against German official persons and property. These incidents took place either on the border or inside German territory. On the night of [August 31], a band of Polish desperadoes actually occupied the German Broad casting Station at Gleiwitz. Now it was clear that unless German troops marched at once, not a man, woman or child of German blood within the Polish territory could reasonably expect to avoid persecution and slaughter.6


    Due to Poland’s atrocious acts against the German people, Hitler declared to British Ambassador Sir Nevile Henderson on August 25, 1939: “Poland’s provocations have become intolerable.”7

    So Poland delivered the first blow, not Germany.

    http://thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-History/+Doc-History-WW2Period/DidHitlerLoseTheWarBecauseHeWasTooSoft.htm

    basically they did to Hitler in Poland what they’re trying to do to Putin in Ukraine. They’re slaughtering ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine as bait to draw Putin in, the way Poland slaughtered ethnic Germans in Danzig and elsewhere to draw Hitler into a wider war.

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  96. “Poland slaughtered ethnic Germans in Danzig” – No ethnic Germans were slaughtered in Danzig or anywhere else.

    I do not think Leon Degrelle can be an authority for any reasonable person on these subjects.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    No ethnic Germans were slaughtered in Danzig or anywhere else.
     
    huh?

    I do not think Leon Degrelle can be an authority for any reasonable person on these subjects.
     
    I don't know much (anything) about him other than the quotes, but I do know of the notorious arrogance of the Polish Colonels vis-a-vis the corridor, the dispute over which, and the infamous intractability of the Poles, led directly to the onset of WWII

    more here:


    More than 58,000 were lost by the German minority in Poland during the days of their liberation from the Polish yoke, as far as canbe ascertained at present. The Polish nation must for all time be held responsible for this appalling massacre consequent upon that Polish reign of terror. Up to November 17, 1939, the closing day for the documentary evidence contained in the first edition of this book, 5,437 murders, committed by members of the Polish armed forces and by Polish civilians on men, women and children of the German minority had already been irrefutably proved. It was quite apparent even then that the actual number of murders far exceeded this figure, and by February 1, 1940, the total number of identified bodies of the German minority had increased to 12,857. Official investigations carried out since the outbreak of the German-Polish war have shown that to these 12,857 killed there must be added more than 45,000 missing, all of whom must be accounted dead since no trace of them can be found. Thus the victims belonging to the German minority in Poland already now total over 58,000. Even this appalling figure by no means covers the sum total of the losses sustained by the German minority. There can be no doubt at all that investigations which are still being conducted will disclose many more thousand dead and wounded. The following description of the Polish atrocities which is not only confined to murders and mutilations but includes other deeds of violence such as maltreatment, rape, robbery and arson applies to only a small section of the terrible events for which irrefutable and official evidence is here established.


    Hans Schadewaldt 1940 [the Polish Atrocitites Against the German Minority in Poland]

    I don't know how much of this is true and how much is exaggerations or flat out fabrications, because I wasn't there.

    But I do know (from a lot of research) that Hitler tried very hard to get a corridor to Danzig, and that part of the reason was because of reports of persecutions (and worse) of the German minority. And that Poland's recalcitrance would ultimately be the tinderbox kindling for WWII
  97. @5371
    No, it was part of Poland, though its autonomy was protected by the League of Nations.

    Poland was responsible for borders and customs. There was Polish Post Office in Danzig but all other administration in Danzig including police was local not controlled by Poland.

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  98. Look, Rurik, I don’t want to get into a history quoting match with you. But, first of all, Gdansk is located literally on the border of the ancient Prussian people who were eradicated by the Germans (I see that based on your nickname you might be interested in medieval times). They can’t build their happiness at other people’s expense, as they learned over and over.

    Second, as far as I know, there was widespread discrimination against Poles in Gdansk by Germans. I agree that Lord Haw Haw is fun to listen to but there are many sources that will show you both sides. In fact, it seems that the Germans had actually been planning on building Stutthof and killing the Poles as early as 1936. Yes, Germans and Poles dislike each other, what else is new? Big peoples always have disputes over territory. That’s not what I meant originally – what does German-Polish conflict have to do with Germans then marching onwards (killing Russian toddlers, burning Belorussian villages, erasing all state borders, imprisoning Latvian nationalists and even the only real national socialists – who gave them the right to do that)? It has to do with perpetuating the century old entitlement attitude that they can just invade Eastern lands and get free labor (Drang nach Osten). We’ll just enslave the Russians and live happily ever after for one thousand years. Not only that but way before the war started, the Germans considered Slavs inferior (which is ofc laughable given that so many Slavs are actually lighter and more symmetrical than Germans themselves!) and Himmler said things like “[Später] werden alle Polen aus dieser Welt verschwinden. Es ist erforderlich, dass das großdeutsche Volk die Vernichtung sämtlicher Polen als seine Hauptaufgabe versteht.” Alle Polen – not just the ones in Danzig but all over Poland, not to even mention the Russians.

    So basically you are blaming the biggest victims of WW2 – the Polish people – for starting the war and for the crimes that were committed against them. You talk about Christians, but forget that the Nazis systematically killed Polish priests. I’m not saying Poles are completely innocent but that is simply not comparable to the scale of German violence against them.

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  99. @utu
    "Poland slaughtered ethnic Germans in Danzig" - No ethnic Germans were slaughtered in Danzig or anywhere else.

    I do not think Leon Degrelle can be an authority for any reasonable person on these subjects.

    No ethnic Germans were slaughtered in Danzig or anywhere else.

    huh?

    I do not think Leon Degrelle can be an authority for any reasonable person on these subjects.

    I don’t know much (anything) about him other than the quotes, but I do know of the notorious arrogance of the Polish Colonels vis-a-vis the corridor, the dispute over which, and the infamous intractability of the Poles, led directly to the onset of WWII

    more here:

    More than 58,000 were lost by the German minority in Poland during the days of their liberation from the Polish yoke, as far as canbe ascertained at present. The Polish nation must for all time be held responsible for this appalling massacre consequent upon that Polish reign of terror. Up to November 17, 1939, the closing day for the documentary evidence contained in the first edition of this book, 5,437 murders, committed by members of the Polish armed forces and by Polish civilians on men, women and children of the German minority had already been irrefutably proved. It was quite apparent even then that the actual number of murders far exceeded this figure, and by February 1, 1940, the total number of identified bodies of the German minority had increased to 12,857. Official investigations carried out since the outbreak of the German-Polish war have shown that to these 12,857 killed there must be added more than 45,000 missing, all of whom must be accounted dead since no trace of them can be found. Thus the victims belonging to the German minority in Poland already now total over 58,000. Even this appalling figure by no means covers the sum total of the losses sustained by the German minority. There can be no doubt at all that investigations which are still being conducted will disclose many more thousand dead and wounded. The following description of the Polish atrocities which is not only confined to murders and mutilations but includes other deeds of violence such as maltreatment, rape, robbery and arson applies to only a small section of the terrible events for which irrefutable and official evidence is here established.

    Hans Schadewaldt 1940 [the Polish Atrocitites Against the German Minority in Poland]

    I don’t know how much of this is true and how much is exaggerations or flat out fabrications, because I wasn’t there.

    But I do know (from a lot of research) that Hitler tried very hard to get a corridor to Danzig, and that part of the reason was because of reports of persecutions (and worse) of the German minority. And that Poland’s recalcitrance would ultimately be the tinderbox kindling for WWII

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  100. Regarding what you say about Russia, yes, there are similarities there, because the Karaganov doctrine clearly states that “compatriots abroad” (that is, Russian-speakers outside Russia) should be used as a weapon against their host nations. So far it seems that Putin has hesitated to do it in full scale. For political reasons in relation to the EU, probably. And, Rurik, what you fail to see it seems, is that this conflict is not about “the Jews” (yes, they can be problematic, but it is not the issue here), it is about the civilizational divide between two large Slavic ethnic groups.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    So far it seems that Putin has hesitated to do it in full scale.
     
    "in full scale"?

    has he used it at all?

    And, Rurik, what you fail to see it seems, is that this conflict is not about “the Jews” (yes, they can be problematic, but it is not the issue here), it is about the civilizational divide between two large Slavic ethnic groups.
     
    like the WWII conflict between Germany and Russia? Nothing to do with Jews?

    Like the conflict between the US and Iraq and Iran and Syria and Libya and so many others in the Middle East.. Nothing to do with (Zionist) Jews?

    like the conflict between Kyiv and Moscow today, where a Zionist Jew from a notorious war mongering family of uber-chicken-hawk Zionists Jews (the Kagans) brags about spending five billion dollars (looted from the US Treasury) in Ukraine to set it up for a putsch, and then is recorded talking to an Estonian diplomat telling him which Jewish banker is going to be the president of Ukraine following her coup?

    Nothing whatsoever to do with Jews?

    when the NKVD marched into Poland and executed the leadership and intellectuals and priests and professors and basically the best of Poland, was the fact that most NKVD officers were Jews just a coincidence?

    same with the leadership of the Bolsheviks.. was the fact that they were mostly Jewish have anything whatsoever to do with Jews?

    Please understand Latvian woman, I realize that there are intractable grievances that some Slavs have against other Slavs, just like some Arab tribes have against other Arab tribes. Like in Syria for instance, or Iraq. You had in these places many diverse tribes of Arabs all living together in relative harmony, with a growing middle class and moderate prosperity and hope for the future. Even if there were simmering resentments, they were quashed by the PTB in those countries. And that allowed for a reasonably safe and thriving lifestyle.

    But then what happened?

    Certain elements (Zionists in the US and England and France, etc..) decided that what would be really good would be to dishonestly pretend that Saddam had something to do with 911, and if that didn't work, then they'd tell a bunch of lies about some weapons he didn't have. Whatever. Anyways these Zionists then proceeded to destroy that country and set these people at each other's throat, and foment strife and misery and hatred, to the point where now places like Iraq and Libya and Syria are dystopian hells on earth, and women don't dare walk the streets, and the people live in terror and abject misery. All because of some Zionist intrigue and international criminal war pigs wanted to remove leaders and destroy countries that were potentially inconvenient to Israel.

    Nothing to do with Jews?

    When Russia suffered through decades of (Jewish) Bolshevik Soviet horrors and gulags and terrors, and then exported all of that into the Baltic states and Ukraine and Hungary and everywhere else they could, like Eastern Germany, did any of that have anything whatsoever to do with Jews? When in the nineties the Russian government decided to stop being commie and like throwing a light switch, they became "capitalists"!, where Rothschild agents then ended up with all of Russia's wealth for themselves, and these (mostly) Jewish oligarchs became some of the richest men in the world overnight, while the ethnic Russians were collectively plunged into even greater abject despair than they had been under communism, did any of that have anything to do with Jews?

    I wonder, as the world watches with disbelief the appalling way the Palestinians are treated in their own lands, do you ever wonder if any of that has anything to do with Jews?

    BTW, I like Jews. At least the ones I know. Jews are just like everyone else, they have their foibles and charms and also their less endearing qualities. But the thing about Jews today is that because of their ability (collectively as a tribe, [which is how they've always rolled-"what's good for the Jews"]) to mainline the US Treasury into their communities and organizations -AIPAC, SPLC, ADL etc.., with Goldman Sachs holding the keys, and the Jewish controlled Fed printing lucre as fast as they can corrupt everyone's governments and buy their medias with, they've simply been given too much power.

    If Arabs had the power to print trillions of dollars and hand it out to other Arabs, then the US government and NATO would be fighting wars all over the place on behalf of the Arabs.

    Our politicians are completely corrupt and rotten. They do whatever the man with the money and influence to get them re-elected tells them to do. It's just that simple. If Arabs controlled our central bank and owned our media and were then able to install Arabs at all critical junctures at our institutions, then I'd in all likelihood be trying to point out that it was Arabs that were behind all the wars. But today it isn't. It's Jews. ;)

    but, having said all of that, I'd really like to know what you mean precisely by this:

    the civilizational divide between two large Slavic ethnic groups.
     
  101. Actually, I should probably correct that – Russia hasn’t acted in an even more radical manner (for instance, by invading Donbass directly) not only because of the EU (it would just look really bad) but also because Putin probably doesn’t want to touch Eastern Ukraine.

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  102. A very interesting read by Orlov: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/08/a-thousand-balls-of-flame.html#more

    Excerpts:
    “There is exactly one nuclear aggressor nation on the planet, and it isn’t Russia. But this shouldn’t matter. In spite of American efforts to undermine it, the logic of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) remains in effect. The probability of a nuclear exchange is determined not by anyone’s policy but by the likelihood of it happening by accident.
    … US military spending is responsible for over half of all federal discretionary spending, dwarfing most other vitally important sectors, such as infrastructure, public medicine and public education. It serves several objectives. Most importantly, it is a public jobs program: a way of employing people who are not employable in any actually productive capacity due to lack of intelligence, education and training. Second, it is a way for politicians and defense contractors to synergistically enrich themselves and each other at the public’s expense. Third, it is an advertising program for weapons sales, the US being the top purveyor of lethal technology in the world. Last of all, it is a way of projecting force around the world, bombing into submission any country that dares oppose Washington’s global hegemonic ambitions, often in total disregard of international law. Nowhere on this list is the actual goal of defending the US.
    …The question then is, What is the absolute minimum of military action—what I am calling “a thousand balls of fire,” named after George Bush Senior’s “a thousand points of light”—to restore peace on terms favorable to Russia? It seems to me that 1000 “balls of fire” is just about the right number. These would be smallish explosions—enough to demolish a building or an industrial installation, with almost no casualties. This last point is extremely important, because the goal is to destroy the system without actually directly hurting any of the people.”

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  103. the US taxpayers money in action: “U.S. ‘Lost’ 700K+ Weapons in Middle East”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/08/24/u-s-lost-track-of-hundreds-of-thousands-weapons-in-iraq-afghanistan.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

    in this context, “The Defense Department’s Inspector General, in a June report, said the Army made $2.8 trillion in wrongful adjustments to accounting entries in one quarter alone in 2015, and $6.5 trillion for the year”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-19/government-report-finds-65-trillion-taxpayer-funds-unaccounted

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  104. @Latvian woman
    Regarding what you say about Russia, yes, there are similarities there, because the Karaganov doctrine clearly states that "compatriots abroad" (that is, Russian-speakers outside Russia) should be used as a weapon against their host nations. So far it seems that Putin has hesitated to do it in full scale. For political reasons in relation to the EU, probably. And, Rurik, what you fail to see it seems, is that this conflict is not about "the Jews" (yes, they can be problematic, but it is not the issue here), it is about the civilizational divide between two large Slavic ethnic groups.

    So far it seems that Putin has hesitated to do it in full scale.

    “in full scale”?

    has he used it at all?

    And, Rurik, what you fail to see it seems, is that this conflict is not about “the Jews” (yes, they can be problematic, but it is not the issue here), it is about the civilizational divide between two large Slavic ethnic groups.

    like the WWII conflict between Germany and Russia? Nothing to do with Jews?

    Like the conflict between the US and Iraq and Iran and Syria and Libya and so many others in the Middle East.. Nothing to do with (Zionist) Jews?

    like the conflict between Kyiv and Moscow today, where a Zionist Jew from a notorious war mongering family of uber-chicken-hawk Zionists Jews (the Kagans) brags about spending five billion dollars (looted from the US Treasury) in Ukraine to set it up for a putsch, and then is recorded talking to an Estonian diplomat telling him which Jewish banker is going to be the president of Ukraine following her coup?

    Nothing whatsoever to do with Jews?

    when the NKVD marched into Poland and executed the leadership and intellectuals and priests and professors and basically the best of Poland, was the fact that most NKVD officers were Jews just a coincidence?

    same with the leadership of the Bolsheviks.. was the fact that they were mostly Jewish have anything whatsoever to do with Jews?

    Please understand Latvian woman, I realize that there are intractable grievances that some Slavs have against other Slavs, just like some Arab tribes have against other Arab tribes. Like in Syria for instance, or Iraq. You had in these places many diverse tribes of Arabs all living together in relative harmony, with a growing middle class and moderate prosperity and hope for the future. Even if there were simmering resentments, they were quashed by the PTB in those countries. And that allowed for a reasonably safe and thriving lifestyle.

    But then what happened?

    Certain elements (Zionists in the US and England and France, etc..) decided that what would be really good would be to dishonestly pretend that Saddam had something to do with 911, and if that didn’t work, then they’d tell a bunch of lies about some weapons he didn’t have. Whatever. Anyways these Zionists then proceeded to destroy that country and set these people at each other’s throat, and foment strife and misery and hatred, to the point where now places like Iraq and Libya and Syria are dystopian hells on earth, and women don’t dare walk the streets, and the people live in terror and abject misery. All because of some Zionist intrigue and international criminal war pigs wanted to remove leaders and destroy countries that were potentially inconvenient to Israel.

    Nothing to do with Jews?

    When Russia suffered through decades of (Jewish) Bolshevik Soviet horrors and gulags and terrors, and then exported all of that into the Baltic states and Ukraine and Hungary and everywhere else they could, like Eastern Germany, did any of that have anything whatsoever to do with Jews? When in the nineties the Russian government decided to stop being commie and like throwing a light switch, they became “capitalists”!, where Rothschild agents then ended up with all of Russia’s wealth for themselves, and these (mostly) Jewish oligarchs became some of the richest men in the world overnight, while the ethnic Russians were collectively plunged into even greater abject despair than they had been under communism, did any of that have anything to do with Jews?

    I wonder, as the world watches with disbelief the appalling way the Palestinians are treated in their own lands, do you ever wonder if any of that has anything to do with Jews?

    BTW, I like Jews. At least the ones I know. Jews are just like everyone else, they have their foibles and charms and also their less endearing qualities. But the thing about Jews today is that because of their ability (collectively as a tribe, [which is how they've always rolled-"what's good for the Jews"]) to mainline the US Treasury into their communities and organizations -AIPAC, SPLC, ADL etc.., with Goldman Sachs holding the keys, and the Jewish controlled Fed printing lucre as fast as they can corrupt everyone’s governments and buy their medias with, they’ve simply been given too much power.

    If Arabs had the power to print trillions of dollars and hand it out to other Arabs, then the US government and NATO would be fighting wars all over the place on behalf of the Arabs.

    Our politicians are completely corrupt and rotten. They do whatever the man with the money and influence to get them re-elected tells them to do. It’s just that simple. If Arabs controlled our central bank and owned our media and were then able to install Arabs at all critical junctures at our institutions, then I’d in all likelihood be trying to point out that it was Arabs that were behind all the wars. But today it isn’t. It’s Jews. ;)

    but, having said all of that, I’d really like to know what you mean precisely by this:

    the civilizational divide between two large Slavic ethnic groups.

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  105. Rurik,

    “has he used it at all?”

    Where does a mechanic from Donbass get a weapon to shoot down a plane? And continue insurgency for months, years? I don’t know, I’m just wondering, maybe all the weapons were there already.

    Regarding civilizational divide, sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. I didn’t mean it from the point of view of Kievan Rus, for instance (from that perspective, this conflict really is kind of perverse) or the Huntington’s definition. I believe that Russia is a civilization of its own – not European, not Western, not Asian (kind of similar how Japan is its own civilization). Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of that civilization anymore (they are not really the Russkiy mir, and it’s interesting because now we have many Ukranians that speak perfect Russian (like that guy who was caught in Crimea) but they still don’t want it).

    There is also a strong emphasis on the “vertical” of power in Russia. I’m not sure Ukraine wants to have something like that either.

    Ukraine doesn’t want to be constantly paternalized by Russia (called the little brother, malorus, and, the way you are talking here, blaming some Jewish conspiracy for everything, is kind of the same – paternalizing, claiming that Western Ukrainians have no agency – it is really, really annoying when you’re on the receiving end of it and have to listen to claims like you didn’t have roads, bridges, opera, show choir or libraries before Russians arrived in 1945, etc, and it gets old).

    Dugin visualizes Russia as a pumping heart – it shrinks and then expands again. Ukrainians don’t want to be a part of that either.

    I’m kind of interested now in what the ethnic composition of Eastern Ukraine was prior to Stalin’s era. I’m sure many Russians used to live there but it’d be interesting to know.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Where does a mechanic from Donbass get a weapon to shoot down a plane?
     
    just so long as you're not talking about MH17, the one with all the machine gun bullet holes in it

    (that they dishonestly blamed Putin for)

    as for a lot of weaponry, (and much needed humanitarian aid), I agree that Putin's Russia has been arming the rebels in Donbas and the East. But that's a far cry from having Russian nationals wage war against a country like Estonia where during the Soviet era they imported hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Russians into neighboring countries.

    Something I consider contemptible, but then I consider almost everything a commie does as contemptible. But it's important to remember that every-day Russians suffered Soviet horrors too.

    Regarding civilizational divide, sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. I didn’t mean it from the point of view of Kievan Rus, for instance (from that perspective, this conflict really is kind of perverse) or the Huntington’s definition. I believe that Russia is a civilization of its own – not European, not Western, not Asian (kind of similar how Japan is its own civilization). Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of that civilization anymore
     
    fascinating Latvian women,

    you've crystalized the conflict nicely down to one paragraph. That all sounds about right.

    I picked my screen name from a famous Kievan Rus', in the hopes that I could insinuate myself between the forces in this conflict. And sort of be a neutral voice, and try to speak against the impending war - something I saw being foisted and fomented by our Western war pigs- but using natural fault lines- that being their modus operandi.

    Many of these problems were set in motion during the Soviet era with the 1954 transfer of Crimea

    Anyways you have ethnic Ukrainians living in the West and ethnic Russian living in the East. And they often intermingle well enough but then there's also a lot of simmering resentments.

    I've written about all of that rather extensively, but virtually everything I know about it all comes from reading and research on the Internet and people I've talked to. I've never been there, (yet)

    (I'm going to try to keep this short)

    There is a lot of pure hate.

    When I ask those who're sympathetic to the Ukrainian side 'why not let the people of Donbas, (or Crimea for that matter) to go their own way? And let them align with Russia if they want to? Why do you want to force them to live under a regime that today in Kyiv, is openly hostile to these people and their culture and everything about them. If the (quisling) government in Kyiv today (that the US state dept. installed) seems to hate the ethnic Russians, then why not just let them leave and you guys can have the West and they can take the East.

    The response I've gotten amounts to 'fuck them!' They're a bunch of inbred, congenital criminals and why should we let them carve off some of the more lucrative parts of "our" country?' We suffered under the Soviets, we suffered the Holodomor, now it's time for them to suffer!!!

    This is the kind of thing that I consider counter productive.

    Anyways, you have this conflict, and it's been simmering for generations, but today it's becoming a hot conflict and people are getting slaughtered by the thousands, and the reason why, (IMHO) is because the PTB in the world, the yes, I'm sorry... Zionists, are trying to destroy countries in the Middle East for their own purposes. And just like they destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya, now they're very busy trying to destroy Syria. It has been the US government (the AIPAC dominated Zionists) that have been funding and arming the "moderate" rebels in Syria (stone age head slicers), in order to give the 'Gadhafi' treatment to Assad, so Syria falls apart, and Israel can steal the oil rich Golan Heights. OK? This is all going on, and I'm not making any of it up. Now what happens is Putin has seen what the Zio-Fiend has done to places like Libya, and by whom, and why, and he has drawn a line in the sand over Syria, and said 'enough of this murderous, imperial hegemony'. Well, the PTB don't like this upstart meddling with their agenda, so they've decided to foment war on his doorstep, you see? And that is why, as near as I can glimmer, that the Zio-West and their assorted stooges, Porky, Saakashvili, Kolomoyskyi, Victor Pinchuk, others.. are trying to foment war with Putin's Russia, (and getting fantastically wealthy off the process), while ordinary Ukrainians (in both the east and west) are languishing in abject poverty and reeling from all of the hatred and misery and death.

    OK, so that covers the intrigue behind all of this.

    Just today I see this:

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/540438/Vladimir-Putin-Empire-Ukraine-Crimea-Russia-Invasion-Independence-Day-Petro-Poroshenko

    this is war hysteria, and lies. I am very much against war hysteria and lies. Especially as I know that what they want is to see mountains of slaughtered Ukrainians and Russians. Nothing would warm the cockles of their feculent hearts more that Ukrainians slaughtering Russians and vice versa and concentrating all of Putin's attention on his border, so that they can do a Libya on Syria.

    You see all of this is tied together. The conflict in Turkey, the conflict in Donbas, the ravages of ISIS upon the people of Syria, and all of this hate and misery and death and loss are all being orchestrated by some very black-hearted scumfucks.

    Sorry.

    But yes, I do rail against such evil. And well I should, once you start to understand how much unimaginable suffering the little people go through, while the psychopath$ that are orchestrating all of this madness are laughing all the way to the bank.

    What exactly do you think the Ukrainians have to gain by starting a shooting war with Russia?!

    that would be madness

    but then, just as the arrogant Polish colonels told themselves at the brink of WWII, 'England and France will fight this war for us'! How well did that work out for the people of Poland?

    It's the same thing here. Porky is all puffed up telling Putin that he can torment the Russians in the East of Ukraine all he wants, and Putin can do nothing, because NATO is drooling like the vicious dog that it is, for any reason at all to start a wider war.

    I would like to continue this conversation, but I have to go...

    thank you for this exchange, I'm learning much, especially when I can shut up long enough to listen ;)
  106. How ironic, the Kiev régime killers of Donbass civilians are being branded “Ukronazis”, while Russian terrorists who ravaged Chechnya for years wiping out one quarter of Chechen civilians, are portrayed as the epitome of decency.

    What Russian terrorists did in Chechnya doesn’t compare even remotely to what the Kiev régime is doing against Donbass civilians.

    What US terrorists did in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn’t compare even remotely to what the ISIS or other insurgent groups operating in Syria/Iraq are doing in these countries. The same for the “Taliban” of Afghanistan.

    Russia and the USA are the utmost reincarnation of Nazi power, albeit a degenerate one. The real Nazis fought bravely against powerful states like Soviet Russia and later the USA.
    While our degenerate Nazis, the USA and Russia, have since the post WWII era, waged war against only weak countries(Hungary, Czeckslovaquia) third-world countries (Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.) and a heroic country seeking independence from Russian rule (tiny Chechnya).

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  107. I know, zorro, it’s almost uncanny, it seems that the bigger these militaries get, the smaller / weaker (comparative to size) targets they pick. Yet when any talk of a real war on their own soil comes up, they get all apprehensive.

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  108. Whilst I agree with most of what you’ve written, the part seemingly excusing the Ukronazis is nothing short of whataboutery and anyway, given the direct involvement of Nuland and Kolomoisky, it fits perfectly with your other descriptions as to who are the Nazis.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if everything east of Kiev ends up being Russia at some point in the not too distant future and it would be unreasonable to blame Russia for that outcome.

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  109. @Latvian woman
    Rurik,

    "has he used it at all?"

    Where does a mechanic from Donbass get a weapon to shoot down a plane? And continue insurgency for months, years? I don't know, I'm just wondering, maybe all the weapons were there already.

    Regarding civilizational divide, sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean it from the point of view of Kievan Rus, for instance (from that perspective, this conflict really is kind of perverse) or the Huntington's definition. I believe that Russia is a civilization of its own - not European, not Western, not Asian (kind of similar how Japan is its own civilization). Ukraine doesn't want to be a part of that civilization anymore (they are not really the Russkiy mir, and it's interesting because now we have many Ukranians that speak perfect Russian (like that guy who was caught in Crimea) but they still don't want it).

    There is also a strong emphasis on the "vertical" of power in Russia. I'm not sure Ukraine wants to have something like that either.

    Ukraine doesn't want to be constantly paternalized by Russia (called the little brother, malorus, and, the way you are talking here, blaming some Jewish conspiracy for everything, is kind of the same - paternalizing, claiming that Western Ukrainians have no agency - it is really, really annoying when you're on the receiving end of it and have to listen to claims like you didn't have roads, bridges, opera, show choir or libraries before Russians arrived in 1945, etc, and it gets old).

    Dugin visualizes Russia as a pumping heart - it shrinks and then expands again. Ukrainians don't want to be a part of that either.

    I'm kind of interested now in what the ethnic composition of Eastern Ukraine was prior to Stalin's era. I'm sure many Russians used to live there but it'd be interesting to know.

    Where does a mechanic from Donbass get a weapon to shoot down a plane?

    just so long as you’re not talking about MH17, the one with all the machine gun bullet holes in it

    (that they dishonestly blamed Putin for)

    as for a lot of weaponry, (and much needed humanitarian aid), I agree that Putin’s Russia has been arming the rebels in Donbas and the East. But that’s a far cry from having Russian nationals wage war against a country like Estonia where during the Soviet era they imported hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Russians into neighboring countries.

    Something I consider contemptible, but then I consider almost everything a commie does as contemptible. But it’s important to remember that every-day Russians suffered Soviet horrors too.

    Regarding civilizational divide, sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. I didn’t mean it from the point of view of Kievan Rus, for instance (from that perspective, this conflict really is kind of perverse) or the Huntington’s definition. I believe that Russia is a civilization of its own – not European, not Western, not Asian (kind of similar how Japan is its own civilization). Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of that civilization anymore

    fascinating Latvian women,

    you’ve crystalized the conflict nicely down to one paragraph. That all sounds about right.

    I picked my screen name from a famous Kievan Rus’, in the hopes that I could insinuate myself between the forces in this conflict. And sort of be a neutral voice, and try to speak against the impending war – something I saw being foisted and fomented by our Western war pigs- but using natural fault lines- that being their modus operandi.

    Many of these problems were set in motion during the Soviet era with the 1954 transfer of Crimea

    Anyways you have ethnic Ukrainians living in the West and ethnic Russian living in the East. And they often intermingle well enough but then there’s also a lot of simmering resentments.

    I’ve written about all of that rather extensively, but virtually everything I know about it all comes from reading and research on the Internet and people I’ve talked to. I’ve never been there, (yet)

    (I’m going to try to keep this short)

    There is a lot of pure hate.

    When I ask those who’re sympathetic to the Ukrainian side ‘why not let the people of Donbas, (or Crimea for that matter) to go their own way? And let them align with Russia if they want to? Why do you want to force them to live under a regime that today in Kyiv, is openly hostile to these people and their culture and everything about them. If the (quisling) government in Kyiv today (that the US state dept. installed) seems to hate the ethnic Russians, then why not just let them leave and you guys can have the West and they can take the East.

    The response I’ve gotten amounts to ‘fuck them!’ They’re a bunch of inbred, congenital criminals and why should we let them carve off some of the more lucrative parts of “our” country?’ We suffered under the Soviets, we suffered the Holodomor, now it’s time for them to suffer!!!

    This is the kind of thing that I consider counter productive.

    Anyways, you have this conflict, and it’s been simmering for generations, but today it’s becoming a hot conflict and people are getting slaughtered by the thousands, and the reason why, (IMHO) is because the PTB in the world, the yes, I’m sorry… Zionists, are trying to destroy countries in the Middle East for their own purposes. And just like they destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya, now they’re very busy trying to destroy Syria. It has been the US government (the AIPAC dominated Zionists) that have been funding and arming the “moderate” rebels in Syria (stone age head slicers), in order to give the ‘Gadhafi’ treatment to Assad, so Syria falls apart, and Israel can steal the oil rich Golan Heights. OK? This is all going on, and I’m not making any of it up. Now what happens is Putin has seen what the Zio-Fiend has done to places like Libya, and by whom, and why, and he has drawn a line in the sand over Syria, and said ‘enough of this murderous, imperial hegemony’. Well, the PTB don’t like this upstart meddling with their agenda, so they’ve decided to foment war on his doorstep, you see? And that is why, as near as I can glimmer, that the Zio-West and their assorted stooges, Porky, Saakashvili, Kolomoyskyi, Victor Pinchuk, others.. are trying to foment war with Putin’s Russia, (and getting fantastically wealthy off the process), while ordinary Ukrainians (in both the east and west) are languishing in abject poverty and reeling from all of the hatred and misery and death.

    OK, so that covers the intrigue behind all of this.

    Just today I see this:

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/540438/Vladimir-Putin-Empire-Ukraine-Crimea-Russia-Invasion-Independence-Day-Petro-Poroshenko

    this is war hysteria, and lies. I am very much against war hysteria and lies. Especially as I know that what they want is to see mountains of slaughtered Ukrainians and Russians. Nothing would warm the cockles of their feculent hearts more that Ukrainians slaughtering Russians and vice versa and concentrating all of Putin’s attention on his border, so that they can do a Libya on Syria.

    You see all of this is tied together. The conflict in Turkey, the conflict in Donbas, the ravages of ISIS upon the people of Syria, and all of this hate and misery and death and loss are all being orchestrated by some very black-hearted scumfucks.

    Sorry.

    But yes, I do rail against such evil. And well I should, once you start to understand how much unimaginable suffering the little people go through, while the psychopath$ that are orchestrating all of this madness are laughing all the way to the bank.

    What exactly do you think the Ukrainians have to gain by starting a shooting war with Russia?!

    that would be madness

    but then, just as the arrogant Polish colonels told themselves at the brink of WWII, ‘England and France will fight this war for us’! How well did that work out for the people of Poland?

    It’s the same thing here. Porky is all puffed up telling Putin that he can torment the Russians in the East of Ukraine all he wants, and Putin can do nothing, because NATO is drooling like the vicious dog that it is, for any reason at all to start a wider war.

    I would like to continue this conversation, but I have to go…

    thank you for this exchange, I’m learning much, especially when I can shut up long enough to listen ;)

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    • Replies: @L.K
    Hey Rurik,

    I wonder what you think you can learn from such a biased fool such as 'Latvian woman'.

    She does not get even the basic facts right, whether it be the current crisis in the Ukraine or WWII.

    Anyway, take a look at this map showing where Viktor Yanukovych won most of the vote against ZUSA's stooge Timoshenko:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

    So, as you pointed out repeatedly and correctly, Yanukovych was ousted by a Zio-US inspired coup, more than enough evidence of it exists.
    So, why should Yanukovych's voters, largely concentrated in East Ukraine, who had nothing to to do with the fucking coup, meekily accept the outcome of it?
    When all is considered, Russia's response to such a grotesque US provocation has been quite measured.

    It would be like, say, a scenario where Texas seceeded from the US, and Russia then fomented an anti-US coup that ended with a Russian stooge regime in Austin!!!

    Imagine how Zusa would react to such a provocation.
  110. @WorkingClass
    The West tried and failed to kill Erdogan. The Russians saved his bacon. Or at least this is one of the stories I am hearing. If Erdogan will give up his war on Syria and close the border the war will be over.

    Yes, that’s one of the stories, but there are other possibilities that seem quite probable given developments of the past week. The coup might have been a false flag operation carried out by Erdogan himself, or a joint Erdogan-CIA operation, in either case pre-leaked to the Russians so they could “warn” Erdogan of something he knew about and in fact helped plan. This could have been a setup to get Putin and Assad to trust Erdogan, so they would allow Turkey to violate Syrian territory. It’s going to be very difficult to dislodge Turkey and its jihadist allies from Jarabula and Manbij. So now the ISIS supply lines will be secure.

    At the same time, things were looking quite hopeful as far as closing the Turkish border while the Syrian Kurds and Assad were genuinely working together. The SAA and SDF were working quite well together in northeast Aleppo province to cut jihadi supply lines there, and SDF also helped with closing off the Costello Road. The US never wanted the Kurds to attack westward, across the Euphrates, because that was a genuine threat to all jihadi groups. They wanted the Kurds to attack south toward Raqqa. Here’s a McClatchy article from a year ago explaining the divergent goals of SDF/YPG and the US: https://web.archive.org/web/20160202175101/http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/middle-east/article41559747.html

    So now what has happened? The US used its air power to help the YPG bleed itself in liberating Manbij, but after Kurdish fighters were sacrificed to liberate that city, they were ordered to give ISIS safe passage out. Then, the US encouraged Asayish to attack the SAA in Hasakeh, creating animosity between Kurds and Syrians, who until then had been coordinating well, and further encouraging Syria, Iraq, Iran and Russia to accept Turkey as a full partner. Now, the US has ordered them to withdraw to the East Bank of the Euphrates, to be replaced by Turkey and the FSA!! Unless Putin and Assad wake up quickly from their dream of Turkey switching sides and the Kurds also wake up from their wet dream of Rojava, Erdogan will gain effective control of all northern Syria, allowing him to suppress Kurds on both sides of the border, and the ISIS/jihadi supply lines through Jarabalus and Manbij will be intact, allowing continued Turkish participation in the dissolution of Syria. The “there will be no Kurdish state” mantra “unifying” Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey will be turned into “the Kurds will become part of the neo-Ottoman Empire.

    Putin and Assad need to prevent Turkey/FSA from taking Manbij. If SDF/YPG leadership shows signs of following US orders, they need to encourage the already rampant defection of SDF members (including non-stupid Kurds) into NDF and get NDF leaders to commit to defending Manbij until the situation in Aleppo is resolved.

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  111. Rurik,
    It is, of course, not as simple, currently it seems that Eastern Ukraine is being used as some sort of an imperial outpost. Historically, it seems that that territory was a kind of a frontier for both ethnic Russians and Ukrainians to settle together. I don’t think you can just partition along the lines of ethnicity there because, first of all, there are not enough Russians there. With the exception of Crimea, which is something like 60% of ethnic Russian), the Eastern oblasts, while having a large number of Russians, are not majority Russian (except for the cities). I’m not sure if this map is accurate but it shows that not even a half of them are ethnic Russian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine#/media/File:Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG
    This is not enough to secede, as there are other ethnicities living there. So Putin is very smart by not invading because that could aggravate things.
    And even if there were more Russians living there, that alone doesn’t present enough grounds for partition, because it is a very bad idea to change post WW2 borders in Europe. It gives rise to a very dangerous precedent. It is also not fair to Ukraine to have its territory demolished (currently Ukraine has no control over a huge chunk of its Eastern border – that is just scandalous).
    I agree that we don’t know what is really going on on the ground there. I visited Crimea as a child and it was a lovely place, and, yes, Russophone, since then I have met many Ukranians but haven’t traveled there (I’d love to, though, especially, after seeing how beautiful Lviv is). I recently spoke to a Ukrainian refugee from Luhansk – a few of them have applied for asylum in Latvia and have temporary residence permits. She was very intelligent, Russian born it seemed but said she speaks Ukrainian too. She didn’t want to have Ukraine partitioned but obviously it seemed that the current situation in Kiev wasn’t ok for her either. An acquaintance of mine hosted a teenage boy from Lysychanks, Luhansk. He said Russians threw rocks at his mom for speaking Ukrainian.
    I also thought that the Russians could take over the East (Kharkiv, etc), but then I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JnJfaD51p8
    This is from Mariupol, one of the towns that is supposedly pro-Russian, but we see that what appears roughly 70-80% of the people actually support a united Ukraine. Of course, this may not be a reliable source, but it is still quite stunning and tells us that the problem is not so simple. Maybe some sort of an autonomy within Ukraine would be a solution. Of course, that has major implications for Ukraine’s foreign policy, etc.

    Remember also, that Ukraine has been swinging from pro-Western to pro-Russian for 20 years. There was the Orange revolution, etc. But this is the first time that there is an actual war.

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    • Replies: @JL
    @Latvian woman

    it is a very bad idea to change post WW2 borders in Europe. It gives rise to a very dangerous precedent.
     
    So you're basically arguing for a reconstitution of the USSR because that led to a change of post WW2 borders in Europe. Strange coming from a Latvian.

    It is also not fair to Ukraine to have its territory demolished
     
    The illegal and unconstitutional transfer of power in Kiev in 2014 was also not fair. But, guess what? It happened and will not be undone, just like Crimea. Ukraine seems absolutely incapable of ruling itself and it is a historical inevitability that those who cannot rule themselves will be ruled by others.
    , @Rurik
    Hello Latvian woman,

    because it is a very bad idea to change post WW2 borders in Europe.
     
    do you have a problem with Crimea going its own way?

    As I understand it, ethnic Russian or not, over 95% of the people there voted to align with Russia. Would you undo their attempt at self-determination? Would you force them to be ruled by those who hate them?

    If a similar referendum were held in Donbass, would you demand that they have no right to decide such things for themselves?

    here are the results of just such a referendum that was held in 2014:

    "Do you support the Act of State Self-rule of the Donetsk People's Republic?"[32][33]

    Location
    Donetsk Oblast
    Ukraine

    Date
    11 May 2014

    Voting system
    Majority voting

    Preliminary results announced by the Central Election Commission of the Donetsk People's Republic.[34][35][36]

    Yes 89.07%

    No 10.19%


    are they to be imprisoned to the quislings in Kyiv? Does not their collective will mean anything?

    If Latvia were still under the Soviet yoke, and they held a referendum there where 90% of the Latvians said they wanted independence and self-rule, would you discount such a referendum as well?

    you mention that this is a complicated affair, and I agree, but to me (and I suspect others) it has been reduced to a cartoon version of reality, with the Russians as the bad guys and the Ukrainian nationals (many of whom are unapologetic neo-Nazis) as the good guys. Even to the point where the Nazis wage a violent, murderous coup against a legitimately and democratically elected (if corrupt) government, and then everyone is automatically expected to immediately fall in line, simply because the (super-corrupt) US government coerces everyone to do so.

    that seems very hypocritical to me

    if the Ukrainian nationals demand self-determination from Russian dominance of their institutions and culture and government (a demand I of course respect their right to make), then why then don't the demands of the residents of Donbass earn equal respect?

    because they're Russians? and they dominated Ukraine for too long, and now it's their time to pay! ?

    So Putin is very smart by not invading
     
    do you think that Putin is basically another Hitler or Stalin, and that he has ambitions to rule more than Russia?

    If so, do you have any evidence of that?

    Ukraine to have its territory demolished (currently Ukraine has no control over a huge chunk of its Eastern border – that is just scandalous).
     
    so you realize why that is?

    as soon as the violent putsch that put the US state dept. quislings in office, they were immediately hostile to the residents in the Eastern provinces. It was no wonder and no shock that those people should want to cut ties. Who wants to live under a government that is hostile to them? Who should have to? What would you have the ethnic Russian speakers in the East do? Pick up their belongings and move to Russia?

    Remember also, that Ukraine has been swinging from pro-Western to pro-Russian for 20 years. There was the Orange revolution, etc. But this is the first time that there is an actual war.
     
    I believe that were the people left to their own devices, that the young would generally not want to keep all the hate alive, and would prefer to just get along. Sort of like how Ireland's troubles have subsided with the new generations (from both sides) just preferring to live and let live.

    Until the Fiend (Western war pigs like John McCain and Nuland) showed up, there was relative stability in Ukraine. Sure, the government was corrupt, but so are most. Certainly mine is one of the most corrupt and criminal that there are or have ever been- (running an open torture camp and waging illegal wars of aggression and mass-murdering and maiming and displacing millions while terrorizing entire nations with death drones from the sky) So I understand their desire to march on their capital and pull the scumbags out to the lampposts kicking and screaming on their way to a rendezvous with the rope. I sympathize. But what's happened in Ukraine is a travesty and a mockery. You have a guy like Saakashvili being installed as governor of Odessa for God's sake! This POS is a laughing stock and had to run screaming away from Georgia where he's wanted for myriad criminal charges, and then John McCain, one of the worst pieces of human trash to breath air, installs this dog as the governor of Odessa. It's incredible. And yet the Ukrainians all go along with such outrages.

    It's like they have no clue. They understandably want to cut ties with Russia and all memories of the Soviet horrors. I certainly don't blame them. But then they decide to strengthen ties to the Fiend, the Zio-banksters currently murdering and enslaving the Western world. And want loans, and to join the EU, just as most European nations are clamoring to get out of that Orwellian union of death.

    I suppose it seems to me that they want the Disney land thing. They want to talk about Kim Kardasian's ass like us lucky Americans get to talk about. And see their little girls twerk like Miley Cyrus and have Wall Street-like frauds loot their treasury periodically. They want to be Americans and also be the exceptional people, just as Americans like myself are desperate to get out of this mad hatter's ball.

    in closing I'll just say that I wish all the people over there the best. Perhaps my main reason for not supporting Kyiv and the neo-Nazis is because I understand all too well the nature of people like John McCain and Victoria Nuland and the Kagan cabal of war pigs. They're as bad as it gets. You won't find people more sinister and dedicated to war and power and corruption.

    That Kyiv has aligned with this particular lot, spells doom for them for sure.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwVUp4IWEKw
  112. With regards to the Jewish banker you mentioned, I don’t know enough about this character, I know he gave money to Tymoshenko. (Btw, Privatbank was founded in Latvia and I had deposits in that bank, with no complaints, they were the only ones that were offering any decent returns, in all the other banks, including the Swedish ones, you actually lost money).

    It is well known that bankers in EE give money to politicians (in some cases, across the board, to both pro-Russian and pro-Western parties). Should they be able to have that sort of influence? Of course, not! The solution here would be absolute transparency so that the public sees who gives what to who.

    Really, the only real solution with regards to the disproportionate influence of financial institutions is to do something similar to what the Polish Prime minister Beata Szydlo is trying to do now. She has put forth a whole list of very promising proposals aimed at reigning in foreign speculative capital, taxing unproductive sectors, introducing more protectionist economic policies. You might want to read up on that if you have time. Such activities, even if costly in the short term, might help in reigning in unproductive, speculative capital (and hopefully the healthy investments would flow into more productive areas, it would be less dynamic but much safer). Ukraine should look in that direction, too. Remember also that national oligarchs are fine – whatever nationality, but preferably local, ofc – as long as they keep the assets and profits in the country and pay adequate taxes. That is if they share adequately with the public and have no say over the politics.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Should they be able to have that sort of influence? Of course, not!
     
    Iceland did it right. Put the banksters and corrupt politicians in jail to rot. Here in the US, we solve the problem by giving the criminal banksters and fraudsters hundreds of billions of dollars of tax payer's money. That's what you get with Goldman Sachs running the Fed and the Treasury. You get uber-corruption. And Ukraine is going to find out just want kind of societal controls and influence the Fiend is going to demand as payment for those loans. They can't wait to inject their moral sewage into the spiritual veins of Eastern Europeans, who still possess a shed of honor for cultural traditions.

    The Fiend is going to pump them up with cultural trash, like they've done to England and the US. And then, sit back and prepare for the diversity!! and multiculturalism!!!

    If you thing its intolerable to suffer the arrogance of ethnic Russians, wait until they have American style hip-hop, thug-life celebrants in their shops and strutting down their streets.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__w5P9gb4h-w/Sv_2McmbNPI/AAAAAAAABKY/G1mU8IUgGlU/w1200-h630-p-nu/zoologico_parisino.jpg

    Remember also that national oligarchs are fine – whatever nationality, but preferably local, ofc – as long as they keep the assets and profits in the country and pay adequate taxes. That is if they share adequately with the public and have no say over the politics.
     
    Kolomoysky is a Jewish supremacist Zionist who lives in Switzerland and has Israeli passport, (among others) and yet he's the governor of the Dnipropetrovsk District, Ukraine. Where he no doubt loots those people's taxes and everything else in his billionaire's quest to start a war with Russia.

    He uses his ill-gotten billions to hire mercenaries in order to kill Ukrainians in the East. He hates Putin's guts and seems to want to see untold numbers of Ukrainians get slaughtered fighting other Ukrainians. Typical.

    It's like having Himmler be the president of Israel.
  113. @Rurik

    Where does a mechanic from Donbass get a weapon to shoot down a plane?
     
    just so long as you're not talking about MH17, the one with all the machine gun bullet holes in it

    (that they dishonestly blamed Putin for)

    as for a lot of weaponry, (and much needed humanitarian aid), I agree that Putin's Russia has been arming the rebels in Donbas and the East. But that's a far cry from having Russian nationals wage war against a country like Estonia where during the Soviet era they imported hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Russians into neighboring countries.

    Something I consider contemptible, but then I consider almost everything a commie does as contemptible. But it's important to remember that every-day Russians suffered Soviet horrors too.

    Regarding civilizational divide, sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. I didn’t mean it from the point of view of Kievan Rus, for instance (from that perspective, this conflict really is kind of perverse) or the Huntington’s definition. I believe that Russia is a civilization of its own – not European, not Western, not Asian (kind of similar how Japan is its own civilization). Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of that civilization anymore
     
    fascinating Latvian women,

    you've crystalized the conflict nicely down to one paragraph. That all sounds about right.

    I picked my screen name from a famous Kievan Rus', in the hopes that I could insinuate myself between the forces in this conflict. And sort of be a neutral voice, and try to speak against the impending war - something I saw being foisted and fomented by our Western war pigs- but using natural fault lines- that being their modus operandi.

    Many of these problems were set in motion during the Soviet era with the 1954 transfer of Crimea

    Anyways you have ethnic Ukrainians living in the West and ethnic Russian living in the East. And they often intermingle well enough but then there's also a lot of simmering resentments.

    I've written about all of that rather extensively, but virtually everything I know about it all comes from reading and research on the Internet and people I've talked to. I've never been there, (yet)

    (I'm going to try to keep this short)

    There is a lot of pure hate.

    When I ask those who're sympathetic to the Ukrainian side 'why not let the people of Donbas, (or Crimea for that matter) to go their own way? And let them align with Russia if they want to? Why do you want to force them to live under a regime that today in Kyiv, is openly hostile to these people and their culture and everything about them. If the (quisling) government in Kyiv today (that the US state dept. installed) seems to hate the ethnic Russians, then why not just let them leave and you guys can have the West and they can take the East.

    The response I've gotten amounts to 'fuck them!' They're a bunch of inbred, congenital criminals and why should we let them carve off some of the more lucrative parts of "our" country?' We suffered under the Soviets, we suffered the Holodomor, now it's time for them to suffer!!!

    This is the kind of thing that I consider counter productive.

    Anyways, you have this conflict, and it's been simmering for generations, but today it's becoming a hot conflict and people are getting slaughtered by the thousands, and the reason why, (IMHO) is because the PTB in the world, the yes, I'm sorry... Zionists, are trying to destroy countries in the Middle East for their own purposes. And just like they destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya, now they're very busy trying to destroy Syria. It has been the US government (the AIPAC dominated Zionists) that have been funding and arming the "moderate" rebels in Syria (stone age head slicers), in order to give the 'Gadhafi' treatment to Assad, so Syria falls apart, and Israel can steal the oil rich Golan Heights. OK? This is all going on, and I'm not making any of it up. Now what happens is Putin has seen what the Zio-Fiend has done to places like Libya, and by whom, and why, and he has drawn a line in the sand over Syria, and said 'enough of this murderous, imperial hegemony'. Well, the PTB don't like this upstart meddling with their agenda, so they've decided to foment war on his doorstep, you see? And that is why, as near as I can glimmer, that the Zio-West and their assorted stooges, Porky, Saakashvili, Kolomoyskyi, Victor Pinchuk, others.. are trying to foment war with Putin's Russia, (and getting fantastically wealthy off the process), while ordinary Ukrainians (in both the east and west) are languishing in abject poverty and reeling from all of the hatred and misery and death.

    OK, so that covers the intrigue behind all of this.

    Just today I see this:

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/540438/Vladimir-Putin-Empire-Ukraine-Crimea-Russia-Invasion-Independence-Day-Petro-Poroshenko

    this is war hysteria, and lies. I am very much against war hysteria and lies. Especially as I know that what they want is to see mountains of slaughtered Ukrainians and Russians. Nothing would warm the cockles of their feculent hearts more that Ukrainians slaughtering Russians and vice versa and concentrating all of Putin's attention on his border, so that they can do a Libya on Syria.

    You see all of this is tied together. The conflict in Turkey, the conflict in Donbas, the ravages of ISIS upon the people of Syria, and all of this hate and misery and death and loss are all being orchestrated by some very black-hearted scumfucks.

    Sorry.

    But yes, I do rail against such evil. And well I should, once you start to understand how much unimaginable suffering the little people go through, while the psychopath$ that are orchestrating all of this madness are laughing all the way to the bank.

    What exactly do you think the Ukrainians have to gain by starting a shooting war with Russia?!

    that would be madness

    but then, just as the arrogant Polish colonels told themselves at the brink of WWII, 'England and France will fight this war for us'! How well did that work out for the people of Poland?

    It's the same thing here. Porky is all puffed up telling Putin that he can torment the Russians in the East of Ukraine all he wants, and Putin can do nothing, because NATO is drooling like the vicious dog that it is, for any reason at all to start a wider war.

    I would like to continue this conversation, but I have to go...

    thank you for this exchange, I'm learning much, especially when I can shut up long enough to listen ;)

    Hey Rurik,

    I wonder what you think you can learn from such a biased fool such as ‘Latvian woman’.

    She does not get even the basic facts right, whether it be the current crisis in the Ukraine or WWII.

    Anyway, take a look at this map showing where Viktor Yanukovych won most of the vote against ZUSA’s stooge Timoshenko:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

    So, as you pointed out repeatedly and correctly, Yanukovych was ousted by a Zio-US inspired coup, more than enough evidence of it exists.
    So, why should Yanukovych’s voters, largely concentrated in East Ukraine, who had nothing to to do with the fucking coup, meekily accept the outcome of it?
    When all is considered, Russia’s response to such a grotesque US provocation has been quite measured.

    It would be like, say, a scenario where Texas seceeded from the US, and Russia then fomented an anti-US coup that ended with a Russian stooge regime in Austin!!!

    Imagine how Zusa would react to such a provocation.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "...a biased fool ..."
    I have to disagree with you. The ways 'Latvian woman' presents her understanding of the past and current events suggests a game of provocation. The lies and insinuations are woven with certain artistry in "her" posts.
    , @Rurik
    Hey L.K.,

    I wonder what you think you can learn
     
    another perspective. Another, perhaps more provincial way of seeing the conflict over there. For instance I liked this quote of hers:

    I believe that Russia is a civilization of its own – not European, not Western, not Asian (kind of similar how Japan is its own civilization). Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of that civilization anymore
     
    I suspect that there's a lot of truth to that.

    So, why should Yanukovych’s voters, largely concentrated in East Ukraine, who had nothing to to do with the fucking coup, meekily accept the outcome of it?
    When all is considered, Russia’s response to such a grotesque US provocation has been quite measured.
     
    I heartily agree on both counts!

    the Fiend is doing all it can to jab pointed sticks in the Russian bear.

    here's something I just read on Unz

    Putin and his colleagues in the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, Iran, China and South Africa) countries have established an alternate banking system (BRICS Bank and AIIB) that will eventually challenge the dollar-dominated system that is the source of US global power.
    >><<
    .. the dangers of a non-dollar-based system arising among the developing and unaligned countries that would replace the western Central Bank oligopoly. If that happens, then the US will lose its stranglehold on the global economy and the extortionist system ..
     
    perhaps jabbing the Russian bear with pointed sticks isn't all that smart
  114. @Latvian woman
    Rurik,
    It is, of course, not as simple, currently it seems that Eastern Ukraine is being used as some sort of an imperial outpost. Historically, it seems that that territory was a kind of a frontier for both ethnic Russians and Ukrainians to settle together. I don't think you can just partition along the lines of ethnicity there because, first of all, there are not enough Russians there. With the exception of Crimea, which is something like 60% of ethnic Russian), the Eastern oblasts, while having a large number of Russians, are not majority Russian (except for the cities). I'm not sure if this map is accurate but it shows that not even a half of them are ethnic Russian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine#/media/File:Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG
    This is not enough to secede, as there are other ethnicities living there. So Putin is very smart by not invading because that could aggravate things.
    And even if there were more Russians living there, that alone doesn't present enough grounds for partition, because it is a very bad idea to change post WW2 borders in Europe. It gives rise to a very dangerous precedent. It is also not fair to Ukraine to have its territory demolished (currently Ukraine has no control over a huge chunk of its Eastern border - that is just scandalous).
    I agree that we don't know what is really going on on the ground there. I visited Crimea as a child and it was a lovely place, and, yes, Russophone, since then I have met many Ukranians but haven't traveled there (I'd love to, though, especially, after seeing how beautiful Lviv is). I recently spoke to a Ukrainian refugee from Luhansk - a few of them have applied for asylum in Latvia and have temporary residence permits. She was very intelligent, Russian born it seemed but said she speaks Ukrainian too. She didn't want to have Ukraine partitioned but obviously it seemed that the current situation in Kiev wasn't ok for her either. An acquaintance of mine hosted a teenage boy from Lysychanks, Luhansk. He said Russians threw rocks at his mom for speaking Ukrainian.
    I also thought that the Russians could take over the East (Kharkiv, etc), but then I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JnJfaD51p8
    This is from Mariupol, one of the towns that is supposedly pro-Russian, but we see that what appears roughly 70-80% of the people actually support a united Ukraine. Of course, this may not be a reliable source, but it is still quite stunning and tells us that the problem is not so simple. Maybe some sort of an autonomy within Ukraine would be a solution. Of course, that has major implications for Ukraine's foreign policy, etc.

    Remember also, that Ukraine has been swinging from pro-Western to pro-Russian for 20 years. There was the Orange revolution, etc. But this is the first time that there is an actual war.

    it is a very bad idea to change post WW2 borders in Europe. It gives rise to a very dangerous precedent.

    So you’re basically arguing for a reconstitution of the USSR because that led to a change of post WW2 borders in Europe. Strange coming from a Latvian.

    It is also not fair to Ukraine to have its territory demolished

    The illegal and unconstitutional transfer of power in Kiev in 2014 was also not fair. But, guess what? It happened and will not be undone, just like Crimea. Ukraine seems absolutely incapable of ruling itself and it is a historical inevitability that those who cannot rule themselves will be ruled by others.

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  115. @L.K
    Hey Rurik,

    I wonder what you think you can learn from such a biased fool such as 'Latvian woman'.

    She does not get even the basic facts right, whether it be the current crisis in the Ukraine or WWII.

    Anyway, take a look at this map showing where Viktor Yanukovych won most of the vote against ZUSA's stooge Timoshenko:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

    So, as you pointed out repeatedly and correctly, Yanukovych was ousted by a Zio-US inspired coup, more than enough evidence of it exists.
    So, why should Yanukovych's voters, largely concentrated in East Ukraine, who had nothing to to do with the fucking coup, meekily accept the outcome of it?
    When all is considered, Russia's response to such a grotesque US provocation has been quite measured.

    It would be like, say, a scenario where Texas seceeded from the US, and Russia then fomented an anti-US coup that ended with a Russian stooge regime in Austin!!!

    Imagine how Zusa would react to such a provocation.

    “…a biased fool …”
    I have to disagree with you. The ways ‘Latvian woman’ presents her understanding of the past and current events suggests a game of provocation. The lies and insinuations are woven with certain artistry in “her” posts.

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  116. @Latvian woman
    Rurik,
    It is, of course, not as simple, currently it seems that Eastern Ukraine is being used as some sort of an imperial outpost. Historically, it seems that that territory was a kind of a frontier for both ethnic Russians and Ukrainians to settle together. I don't think you can just partition along the lines of ethnicity there because, first of all, there are not enough Russians there. With the exception of Crimea, which is something like 60% of ethnic Russian), the Eastern oblasts, while having a large number of Russians, are not majority Russian (except for the cities). I'm not sure if this map is accurate but it shows that not even a half of them are ethnic Russian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine#/media/File:Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG
    This is not enough to secede, as there are other ethnicities living there. So Putin is very smart by not invading because that could aggravate things.
    And even if there were more Russians living there, that alone doesn't present enough grounds for partition, because it is a very bad idea to change post WW2 borders in Europe. It gives rise to a very dangerous precedent. It is also not fair to Ukraine to have its territory demolished (currently Ukraine has no control over a huge chunk of its Eastern border - that is just scandalous).
    I agree that we don't know what is really going on on the ground there. I visited Crimea as a child and it was a lovely place, and, yes, Russophone, since then I have met many Ukranians but haven't traveled there (I'd love to, though, especially, after seeing how beautiful Lviv is). I recently spoke to a Ukrainian refugee from Luhansk - a few of them have applied for asylum in Latvia and have temporary residence permits. She was very intelligent, Russian born it seemed but said she speaks Ukrainian too. She didn't want to have Ukraine partitioned but obviously it seemed that the current situation in Kiev wasn't ok for her either. An acquaintance of mine hosted a teenage boy from Lysychanks, Luhansk. He said Russians threw rocks at his mom for speaking Ukrainian.
    I also thought that the Russians could take over the East (Kharkiv, etc), but then I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JnJfaD51p8
    This is from Mariupol, one of the towns that is supposedly pro-Russian, but we see that what appears roughly 70-80% of the people actually support a united Ukraine. Of course, this may not be a reliable source, but it is still quite stunning and tells us that the problem is not so simple. Maybe some sort of an autonomy within Ukraine would be a solution. Of course, that has major implications for Ukraine's foreign policy, etc.

    Remember also, that Ukraine has been swinging from pro-Western to pro-Russian for 20 years. There was the Orange revolution, etc. But this is the first time that there is an actual war.

    Hello Latvian woman,

    because it is a very bad idea to change post WW2 borders in Europe.

    do you have a problem with Crimea going its own way?

    As I understand it, ethnic Russian or not, over 95% of the people there voted to align with Russia. Would you undo their attempt at self-determination? Would you force them to be ruled by those who hate them?

    If a similar referendum were held in Donbass, would you demand that they have no right to decide such things for themselves?

    here are the results of just such a referendum that was held in 2014:

    “Do you support the Act of State Self-rule of the Donetsk People’s Republic?”[32][33]

    Location
    Donetsk Oblast
    Ukraine

    Date
    11 May 2014

    Voting system
    Majority voting

    Preliminary results announced by the Central Election Commission of the Donetsk People’s Republic.[34][35][36]

    Yes 89.07%

    No 10.19%

    are they to be imprisoned to the quislings in Kyiv? Does not their collective will mean anything?

    If Latvia were still under the Soviet yoke, and they held a referendum there where 90% of the Latvians said they wanted independence and self-rule, would you discount such a referendum as well?

    you mention that this is a complicated affair, and I agree, but to me (and I suspect others) it has been reduced to a cartoon version of reality, with the Russians as the bad guys and the Ukrainian nationals (many of whom are unapologetic neo-Nazis) as the good guys. Even to the point where the Nazis wage a violent, murderous coup against a legitimately and democratically elected (if corrupt) government, and then everyone is automatically expected to immediately fall in line, simply because the (super-corrupt) US government coerces everyone to do so.

    that seems very hypocritical to me

    if the Ukrainian nationals demand self-determination from Russian dominance of their institutions and culture and government (a demand I of course respect their right to make), then why then don’t the demands of the residents of Donbass earn equal respect?

    because they’re Russians? and they dominated Ukraine for too long, and now it’s their time to pay! ?

    So Putin is very smart by not invading

    do you think that Putin is basically another Hitler or Stalin, and that he has ambitions to rule more than Russia?

    If so, do you have any evidence of that?

    Ukraine to have its territory demolished (currently Ukraine has no control over a huge chunk of its Eastern border – that is just scandalous).

    so you realize why that is?

    as soon as the violent putsch that put the US state dept. quislings in office, they were immediately hostile to the residents in the Eastern provinces. It was no wonder and no shock that those people should want to cut ties. Who wants to live under a government that is hostile to them? Who should have to? What would you have the ethnic Russian speakers in the East do? Pick up their belongings and move to Russia?

    Remember also, that Ukraine has been swinging from pro-Western to pro-Russian for 20 years. There was the Orange revolution, etc. But this is the first time that there is an actual war.

    I believe that were the people left to their own devices, that the young would generally not want to keep all the hate alive, and would prefer to just get along. Sort of like how Ireland’s troubles have subsided with the new generations (from both sides) just preferring to live and let live.

    Until the Fiend (Western war pigs like John McCain and Nuland) showed up, there was relative stability in Ukraine. Sure, the government was corrupt, but so are most. Certainly mine is one of the most corrupt and criminal that there are or have ever been- (running an open torture camp and waging illegal wars of aggression and mass-murdering and maiming and displacing millions while terrorizing entire nations with death drones from the sky) So I understand their desire to march on their capital and pull the scumbags out to the lampposts kicking and screaming on their way to a rendezvous with the rope. I sympathize. But what’s happened in Ukraine is a travesty and a mockery. You have a guy like Saakashvili being installed as governor of Odessa for God’s sake! This POS is a laughing stock and had to run screaming away from Georgia where he’s wanted for myriad criminal charges, and then John McCain, one of the worst pieces of human trash to breath air, installs this dog as the governor of Odessa. It’s incredible. And yet the Ukrainians all go along with such outrages.

    It’s like they have no clue. They understandably want to cut ties with Russia and all memories of the Soviet horrors. I certainly don’t blame them. But then they decide to strengthen ties to the Fiend, the Zio-banksters currently murdering and enslaving the Western world. And want loans, and to join the EU, just as most European nations are clamoring to get out of that Orwellian union of death.

    I suppose it seems to me that they want the Disney land thing. They want to talk about Kim Kardasian’s ass like us lucky Americans get to talk about. And see their little girls twerk like Miley Cyrus and have Wall Street-like frauds loot their treasury periodically. They want to be Americans and also be the exceptional people, just as Americans like myself are desperate to get out of this mad hatter’s ball.

    in closing I’ll just say that I wish all the people over there the best. Perhaps my main reason for not supporting Kyiv and the neo-Nazis is because I understand all too well the nature of people like John McCain and Victoria Nuland and the Kagan cabal of war pigs. They’re as bad as it gets. You won’t find people more sinister and dedicated to war and power and corruption.

    That Kyiv has aligned with this particular lot, spells doom for them for sure.

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  117. @Latvian woman
    With regards to the Jewish banker you mentioned, I don't know enough about this character, I know he gave money to Tymoshenko. (Btw, Privatbank was founded in Latvia and I had deposits in that bank, with no complaints, they were the only ones that were offering any decent returns, in all the other banks, including the Swedish ones, you actually lost money).

    It is well known that bankers in EE give money to politicians (in some cases, across the board, to both pro-Russian and pro-Western parties). Should they be able to have that sort of influence? Of course, not! The solution here would be absolute transparency so that the public sees who gives what to who.

    Really, the only real solution with regards to the disproportionate influence of financial institutions is to do something similar to what the Polish Prime minister Beata Szydlo is trying to do now. She has put forth a whole list of very promising proposals aimed at reigning in foreign speculative capital, taxing unproductive sectors, introducing more protectionist economic policies. You might want to read up on that if you have time. Such activities, even if costly in the short term, might help in reigning in unproductive, speculative capital (and hopefully the healthy investments would flow into more productive areas, it would be less dynamic but much safer). Ukraine should look in that direction, too. Remember also that national oligarchs are fine - whatever nationality, but preferably local, ofc - as long as they keep the assets and profits in the country and pay adequate taxes. That is if they share adequately with the public and have no say over the politics.

    Should they be able to have that sort of influence? Of course, not!

    Iceland did it right. Put the banksters and corrupt politicians in jail to rot. Here in the US, we solve the problem by giving the criminal banksters and fraudsters hundreds of billions of dollars of tax payer’s money. That’s what you get with Goldman Sachs running the Fed and the Treasury. You get uber-corruption. And Ukraine is going to find out just want kind of societal controls and influence the Fiend is going to demand as payment for those loans. They can’t wait to inject their moral sewage into the spiritual veins of Eastern Europeans, who still possess a shed of honor for cultural traditions.

    The Fiend is going to pump them up with cultural trash, like they’ve done to England and the US. And then, sit back and prepare for the diversity!! and multiculturalism!!!

    If you thing its intolerable to suffer the arrogance of ethnic Russians, wait until they have American style hip-hop, thug-life celebrants in their shops and strutting down their streets.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__w5P9gb4h-w/Sv_2McmbNPI/AAAAAAAABKY/G1mU8IUgGlU/w1200-h630-p-nu/zoologico_parisino.jpg

    Remember also that national oligarchs are fine – whatever nationality, but preferably local, ofc – as long as they keep the assets and profits in the country and pay adequate taxes. That is if they share adequately with the public and have no say over the politics.

    Kolomoysky is a Jewish supremacist Zionist who lives in Switzerland and has Israeli passport, (among others) and yet he’s the governor of the Dnipropetrovsk District, Ukraine. Where he no doubt loots those people’s taxes and everything else in his billionaire’s quest to start a war with Russia.

    He uses his ill-gotten billions to hire mercenaries in order to kill Ukrainians in the East. He hates Putin’s guts and seems to want to see untold numbers of Ukrainians get slaughtered fighting other Ukrainians. Typical.

    It’s like having Himmler be the president of Israel.

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  118. @L.K
    Hey Rurik,

    I wonder what you think you can learn from such a biased fool such as 'Latvian woman'.

    She does not get even the basic facts right, whether it be the current crisis in the Ukraine or WWII.

    Anyway, take a look at this map showing where Viktor Yanukovych won most of the vote against ZUSA's stooge Timoshenko:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

    So, as you pointed out repeatedly and correctly, Yanukovych was ousted by a Zio-US inspired coup, more than enough evidence of it exists.
    So, why should Yanukovych's voters, largely concentrated in East Ukraine, who had nothing to to do with the fucking coup, meekily accept the outcome of it?
    When all is considered, Russia's response to such a grotesque US provocation has been quite measured.

    It would be like, say, a scenario where Texas seceeded from the US, and Russia then fomented an anti-US coup that ended with a Russian stooge regime in Austin!!!

    Imagine how Zusa would react to such a provocation.

    Hey L.K.,

    I wonder what you think you can learn

    another perspective. Another, perhaps more provincial way of seeing the conflict over there. For instance I liked this quote of hers:

    I believe that Russia is a civilization of its own – not European, not Western, not Asian (kind of similar how Japan is its own civilization). Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of that civilization anymore

    I suspect that there’s a lot of truth to that.

    So, why should Yanukovych’s voters, largely concentrated in East Ukraine, who had nothing to to do with the fucking coup, meekily accept the outcome of it?
    When all is considered, Russia’s response to such a grotesque US provocation has been quite measured.

    I heartily agree on both counts!

    the Fiend is doing all it can to jab pointed sticks in the Russian bear.

    here’s something I just read on Unz

    Putin and his colleagues in the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, Iran, China and South Africa) countries have established an alternate banking system (BRICS Bank and AIIB) that will eventually challenge the dollar-dominated system that is the source of US global power.
    >><<
    .. the dangers of a non-dollar-based system arising among the developing and unaligned countries that would replace the western Central Bank oligopoly. If that happens, then the US will lose its stranglehold on the global economy and the extortionist system ..

    perhaps jabbing the Russian bear with pointed sticks isn’t all that smart

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  119. Maybe I didn’t phrase it right, but I think everyone here understood the point – let me just put it in a more simplistic way – things were ok, let’s say, 10 years ago, before the so called “New Cold War” began. I believe many would agree with me (both Europeans and Russians) that things are much worse now and part of it is all these ridiculous skirmishes.

    And regarding Ukraine – I already mentioned a few posts back. Ukraine is like a scale – it goes one way, then the other. I don’t know exactly what Russia means by the often mentioned “neutrality” but what kind of “neutrality” can you have when there are such divisions? One side calls the other side “illegal” when it is in power (and then vice versa). Having said that, I really don’t see it as a healthy development changing Ukraine’s borders, because after all Ukraine had those borders even as the Ukrainian SSR. And then for 20 more years. Why change now?? They’re not gonna join NATO anyway (highly unlikely).

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    things were ok, let’s say, 10 years ago, before the so called “New Cold War” began. I believe many would agree with me (both Europeans and Russians) that things are much worse now and part of it is all these ridiculous skirmishes.
     
    and you don't think any of Nuland's five billion or war mongering intrigues had anything to do with all of that?

    Do you know anything at all about her husband and her brother and sister in law?

    they're all neocon, chicken hawk, war mongering, blood-stained filth

    Ukraine’s borders, because after all Ukraine had those borders even as the Ukrainian SSR. And then for 20 more years. Why change now??

     

    um.. because the forces of war are trying to provoke the Russians in the East so that Putin will respond and NATO and the war pigs will get a wider war with Russia?

    there are some of us who'd consider it prudent to avoid another world war (and the use of nuclear weapons), and yes, towards that end, we'd even consider it worth changing the borders of Ukraine to avoid a world war.

    that may not be what some of the more radical Ukrainian ultra-nationalists (Nazis) would like, but then I guess we can't all get what we want all the time
  120. And what lies about WW2 – that I disagreed with the absurd premise that Poland started the war and it is Poland’s fault that Germany invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic states and Russia? You’ve got to be kidding me.

    Rurik, just because I don’t see an evil Jew everywhere, I am provincial? Says a guy from Arkansas who doesn’t understand either Russian or Ukrainian. America doesn’t have the power to change every country’s government, get over yourself.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    I disagreed with the absurd premise that Poland started the war and it is Poland’s fault that Germany invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic states and Russia? You’ve got to be kidding me
     
    I never said that Poland started the war. What I said is that Poland's intransigence as regards the corridor was the match that started the hellfires of war. According to our history books, WWII started when Germany invaded Poland. (our history books don't have any opinion about Stalin's Russia doing the exact same thing at the exact same time) Anyways, it was over the corridor that Hitler invaded Poland, and it was because of the nature of the Soviet Union (genocidal fiends hell bent on world domination) that Germany fought Russia.

    from what I remember, Poland and Czechoslovakia and the Baltic states were all doomed to Soviet communism (slavery) for generations following Germany's defeat. Which, Latvian woman, suggests that Hitler was right about Stalin's imperial intentions. And that all those men (Ukrainians and Latvian too) who donned the German uniform to go out and slaughter commies, were right to do so also. And that Russia needs to back off when their ancestors want to honor their memory.

    Rurik, just because I don’t see an evil Jew everywhere, I am provincial? Says a guy from Arkansas who doesn’t understand either Russian or Ukrainian
     
    there's nothing wrong with being provincial for God's sake. We're all provincial to where we live. I didn't mean it as a pejorative.

    America doesn’t have the power to change every country’s government, get over yourself.
     
    well, it seems to me that I've been trying to say that I would very much like for the US to stay out of other people's affairs. And to stop changing people's governments, like they're doing all over the Middle East and in Ukraine too, in case you haven't noticed.

    Your tone seems a little less polite Latvian women. Was it something I said?
  121. Oh, I see, Rurik, you only have problems with neo-Nazis if they happen to be of Ukrainian ethnicity… if they are of some Celto-Germanic American ethnicity or if they are Russian or Serbian, then it is ok… I see.

    Did you read what I wrote about Mariupol? And, no, I have no problem with Crimea being Russian, what I have a problem with is the way it was done – at Ukraine’s expense. They can secede but don’t expect Europe to recognize DNR as a state. And first deal with these damn khokhols – it doesn’t look so easy.

    Rurik, you a Trump voter, right? In that case you have no business in these affairs – Trump said Ukraine is a European problem. Trump is an isolationist – under his watch America shouldn’t even be sitting by the table with us anymore. You shouldn’t worry about it. Go deal with the oxy epidemic and your own crazy (Jewish and gentile) bankers.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Rurik, you only have problems with neo-Nazis if they happen to be of Ukrainian ethnicity… if they are of some Celto-Germanic American ethnicity or if they are Russian or Serbian, then it is ok… I see.
     
    I don't have a problem with people thinking what ever they want to think. If a person wants to be a Zionist or a Nazi, it's a free country. But the irony of neo-Nazis being funded and empowered by Zionist, war mongering Jews, is just sort of priceless in a way. And I also don't like thugs, or murderous bullies. So if you're a Nazi and you're a thug and bully, then 'fuck you', is what I'd say.

    I'm not and never have been an apologist for Nazis. I'm turned off by their chest thumping racism and belligerence. But then, were I an Ukrainian in the 1930s and had just lost my family to a deliberately imposed holocaust of starvation, imposed by a genocidal and Satanic regime in Moscow, and my only hope of fighting them and perhaps at least killing one of them, would have been to put on a German uniform, then I'd probably had done what millions of other Slavs did, and put on the hated German uniform.

    Just because I respect the right of the Nazis and Germans and others to want to put a stake in the heart of the commie fiend, does not to my mind make me a Nazi apologist.
  122. And don’t you even bring Latvia into this- Latvia used to be occupied by the USSR, Crimea or Donbass were never occupied. It is highly manipulative of you to even suggest those two are equivalents. Read up on it again – Eastern Ukraine was settled by both ethnicities (who are now in a disagreement). Such a thing was never the case in the Baltics (where we had very few Russians prior to the war).

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  123. Re: Iceland, yes, they did it right, even though all the American and British diplomats in Europe were angry and walked around calling them “freeloaders”. I agree that people shouldn’t pay for the bankers’ party, but what is more important is that people don’t PARTICIPATE in the bankers’ party to begin with! Can you ask the American people not to? Oh, that’s right they’re already in debt up to their eyeballs (unlike EE) and there’s no place for more debt! When you have assembled enough men and women who could stand against the Fed, European Central banks, etc., then come and talk to me, otherwise, this is just futile empty talk that I’ve heard for years. I gave you an example of one European leader (who btw is under immense pressure from neo-liberals right now and it is truly shameful how my own country along with many other countries fail to stand behind the new Polish government and what you might not know is that the USG has bullied Poland for years now on certain issues and the State dept has more headaches over Poland now then ever!) who is at least trying to do something – to change the rules of the game and still retain a somewhat polite place in the European society. Whether it will work, that is a different question. Show me at least one Western leader who stood up against the bankers (except for Iceland which btw is still an Althingi style direct democracy because of their size)? I don’t see any. Including Trump, btw, who is not only philoSemitic (nothing wrong with that per se, but you mentioned you hate or suspect the Jews, well, he doesn’t) but also has refused to examine and hold the financial industry accountable (unlike Bernie who wanted to split up the too big to fails). When you deal with these grave issues in the US and the Western world first, then you come and lecture to Eastern Europeans how they should run their affairs or what sort of relationship they should have with the Jewish minority.

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  124. @Latvian woman
    Maybe I didn't phrase it right, but I think everyone here understood the point - let me just put it in a more simplistic way - things were ok, let's say, 10 years ago, before the so called "New Cold War" began. I believe many would agree with me (both Europeans and Russians) that things are much worse now and part of it is all these ridiculous skirmishes.

    And regarding Ukraine - I already mentioned a few posts back. Ukraine is like a scale - it goes one way, then the other. I don't know exactly what Russia means by the often mentioned "neutrality" but what kind of "neutrality" can you have when there are such divisions? One side calls the other side "illegal" when it is in power (and then vice versa). Having said that, I really don't see it as a healthy development changing Ukraine's borders, because after all Ukraine had those borders even as the Ukrainian SSR. And then for 20 more years. Why change now?? They're not gonna join NATO anyway (highly unlikely).

    things were ok, let’s say, 10 years ago, before the so called “New Cold War” began. I believe many would agree with me (both Europeans and Russians) that things are much worse now and part of it is all these ridiculous skirmishes.

    and you don’t think any of Nuland’s five billion or war mongering intrigues had anything to do with all of that?

    Do you know anything at all about her husband and her brother and sister in law?

    they’re all neocon, chicken hawk, war mongering, blood-stained filth

    Ukraine’s borders, because after all Ukraine had those borders even as the Ukrainian SSR. And then for 20 more years. Why change now??

    um.. because the forces of war are trying to provoke the Russians in the East so that Putin will respond and NATO and the war pigs will get a wider war with Russia?

    there are some of us who’d consider it prudent to avoid another world war (and the use of nuclear weapons), and yes, towards that end, we’d even consider it worth changing the borders of Ukraine to avoid a world war.

    that may not be what some of the more radical Ukrainian ultra-nationalists (Nazis) would like, but then I guess we can’t all get what we want all the time

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    I hope you see that the logic of LW' reflects on something different than ignorance. And pay attention to "her" charming protest directed towards others' ignorance because the others do not "understand either Russian or Ukrainian." Amazing.
    Perhaps LW is just a case of above-average degree of Russophobia.
    Here are facts on the ground that should give LW a pause: "For a long time, the country [Latvia] acted a transit point for goods from Russia to Europe.. The transit gives 12-13% of GDP of Latvia, and not less than 80% transit accounted for by goods from the East. The disappearance of the Russian cargo [due to economic sanctions] means loss of well-being no less than 75 thousand inhabitants of Latvia – employees of the capital’s port, the railway industry and members of their families."
    There was a deafening squealing in Ukraine when Russian Federation decided to build North Stream pipelines in order to avoid dealing with Kievan mega-thieves. Today it is Latvia that enjoys the fruit of American decision to sanction Russia for something. As usual, the US prefer that the ordinary people in EU pay the price - whether for the loss of business due to the illegal economic sanctions or by dealing with the desperate waves of humanity escaping the US-created hell in the Middle East.
    And no wonder the LW does not want to talk about Jews: During WWII Latvians were exceptionally active in murdering the local Jewish population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Latvia
    "Latvia Still Honors the Biggest Jew-Killing Machine in World History:"
    http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/03/18/latvia-still-honors-the-biggest-jew-killing-machine-in-world-history/
    You see, the SS was fine but the SA was very, very bad. Hence this Latvian infamy: "Desecration of Soviet war grave in Latvia." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/64022.stm
    Talk about "shared European values..."
  125. @Latvian woman
    And what lies about WW2 - that I disagreed with the absurd premise that Poland started the war and it is Poland's fault that Germany invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic states and Russia? You've got to be kidding me.

    Rurik, just because I don't see an evil Jew everywhere, I am provincial? Says a guy from Arkansas who doesn't understand either Russian or Ukrainian. America doesn't have the power to change every country's government, get over yourself.

    I disagreed with the absurd premise that Poland started the war and it is Poland’s fault that Germany invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic states and Russia? You’ve got to be kidding me

    I never said that Poland started the war. What I said is that Poland’s intransigence as regards the corridor was the match that started the hellfires of war. According to our history books, WWII started when Germany invaded Poland. (our history books don’t have any opinion about Stalin’s Russia doing the exact same thing at the exact same time) Anyways, it was over the corridor that Hitler invaded Poland, and it was because of the nature of the Soviet Union (genocidal fiends hell bent on world domination) that Germany fought Russia.

    from what I remember, Poland and Czechoslovakia and the Baltic states were all doomed to Soviet communism (slavery) for generations following Germany’s defeat. Which, Latvian woman, suggests that Hitler was right about Stalin’s imperial intentions. And that all those men (Ukrainians and Latvian too) who donned the German uniform to go out and slaughter commies, were right to do so also. And that Russia needs to back off when their ancestors want to honor their memory.

    Rurik, just because I don’t see an evil Jew everywhere, I am provincial? Says a guy from Arkansas who doesn’t understand either Russian or Ukrainian

    there’s nothing wrong with being provincial for God’s sake. We’re all provincial to where we live. I didn’t mean it as a pejorative.

    America doesn’t have the power to change every country’s government, get over yourself.

    well, it seems to me that I’ve been trying to say that I would very much like for the US to stay out of other people’s affairs. And to stop changing people’s governments, like they’re doing all over the Middle East and in Ukraine too, in case you haven’t noticed.

    Your tone seems a little less polite Latvian women. Was it something I said?

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  126. @Latvian woman
    Oh, I see, Rurik, you only have problems with neo-Nazis if they happen to be of Ukrainian ethnicity... if they are of some Celto-Germanic American ethnicity or if they are Russian or Serbian, then it is ok... I see.

    Did you read what I wrote about Mariupol? And, no, I have no problem with Crimea being Russian, what I have a problem with is the way it was done - at Ukraine's expense. They can secede but don't expect Europe to recognize DNR as a state. And first deal with these damn khokhols - it doesn't look so easy.

    Rurik, you a Trump voter, right? In that case you have no business in these affairs - Trump said Ukraine is a European problem. Trump is an isolationist - under his watch America shouldn't even be sitting by the table with us anymore. You shouldn't worry about it. Go deal with the oxy epidemic and your own crazy (Jewish and gentile) bankers.

    Rurik, you only have problems with neo-Nazis if they happen to be of Ukrainian ethnicity… if they are of some Celto-Germanic American ethnicity or if they are Russian or Serbian, then it is ok… I see.

    I don’t have a problem with people thinking what ever they want to think. If a person wants to be a Zionist or a Nazi, it’s a free country. But the irony of neo-Nazis being funded and empowered by Zionist, war mongering Jews, is just sort of priceless in a way. And I also don’t like thugs, or murderous bullies. So if you’re a Nazi and you’re a thug and bully, then ‘fuck you’, is what I’d say.

    I’m not and never have been an apologist for Nazis. I’m turned off by their chest thumping racism and belligerence. But then, were I an Ukrainian in the 1930s and had just lost my family to a deliberately imposed holocaust of starvation, imposed by a genocidal and Satanic regime in Moscow, and my only hope of fighting them and perhaps at least killing one of them, would have been to put on a German uniform, then I’d probably had done what millions of other Slavs did, and put on the hated German uniform.

    Just because I respect the right of the Nazis and Germans and others to want to put a stake in the heart of the commie fiend, does not to my mind make me a Nazi apologist.

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  127. The only one in the US who could dismantle the two big to fails (the “Zionist banksters” according to Rurik, et al), was a communist Jew from Brooklyn and then the Anglos shut him up. Effin ironic.

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  128. get over yourself.

    you have no business in these affairs

    well now it’s rather unmistakable

    Latvian woman is being rude

    And don’t you even bring Latvia into this- Latvia used to be occupied by the USSR, Crimea or Donbass were never occupied. It is highly manipulative of you to even suggest those two are equivalents.

    Crimea and Donbass weren’t occupied by the Soviet Union?

    huh?

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  129. @Rurik

    things were ok, let’s say, 10 years ago, before the so called “New Cold War” began. I believe many would agree with me (both Europeans and Russians) that things are much worse now and part of it is all these ridiculous skirmishes.
     
    and you don't think any of Nuland's five billion or war mongering intrigues had anything to do with all of that?

    Do you know anything at all about her husband and her brother and sister in law?

    they're all neocon, chicken hawk, war mongering, blood-stained filth

    Ukraine’s borders, because after all Ukraine had those borders even as the Ukrainian SSR. And then for 20 more years. Why change now??

     

    um.. because the forces of war are trying to provoke the Russians in the East so that Putin will respond and NATO and the war pigs will get a wider war with Russia?

    there are some of us who'd consider it prudent to avoid another world war (and the use of nuclear weapons), and yes, towards that end, we'd even consider it worth changing the borders of Ukraine to avoid a world war.

    that may not be what some of the more radical Ukrainian ultra-nationalists (Nazis) would like, but then I guess we can't all get what we want all the time

    I hope you see that the logic of LW’ reflects on something different than ignorance. And pay attention to “her” charming protest directed towards others’ ignorance because the others do not “understand either Russian or Ukrainian.” Amazing.
    Perhaps LW is just a case of above-average degree of Russophobia.
    Here are facts on the ground that should give LW a pause: “For a long time, the country [Latvia] acted a transit point for goods from Russia to Europe.. The transit gives 12-13% of GDP of Latvia, and not less than 80% transit accounted for by goods from the East. The disappearance of the Russian cargo [due to economic sanctions] means loss of well-being no less than 75 thousand inhabitants of Latvia – employees of the capital’s port, the railway industry and members of their families.”
    There was a deafening squealing in Ukraine when Russian Federation decided to build North Stream pipelines in order to avoid dealing with Kievan mega-thieves. Today it is Latvia that enjoys the fruit of American decision to sanction Russia for something. As usual, the US prefer that the ordinary people in EU pay the price – whether for the loss of business due to the illegal economic sanctions or by dealing with the desperate waves of humanity escaping the US-created hell in the Middle East.
    And no wonder the LW does not want to talk about Jews: During WWII Latvians were exceptionally active in murdering the local Jewish population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Latvia
    “Latvia Still Honors the Biggest Jew-Killing Machine in World History:”

    http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/03/18/latvia-still-honors-the-biggest-jew-killing-machine-in-world-history/

    You see, the SS was fine but the SA was very, very bad. Hence this Latvian infamy: “Desecration of Soviet war grave in Latvia.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/64022.stm
    Talk about “shared European values…”

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  130. So this 5 billion dollars (which btw is what fraction of their annual budget and over how many years is this spread out?) – is it something they used to translate Hannah Arendt and Frankfurt school books in Ukranian, pass out some scholarships like Fulbright, “promote inclusion and women’s rights” or anything real and serious… what exactly was it used for?

    Well, first, it sounded like you implied that just because Poles and Germans had issues over Gdansk, that that was enough reason for Germany to invade Poland (and set up a whole bunch of concentration camps in Poland where Polish citizens were exterminated, including and above all non-communist Polish citizens (for example, mothers, musicians and Catholic priests)), invade Czechoslovakia, the Baltic states and Soviet Russia. I’m not bringing this up because such an assumption is “un-historic” or purely imbecile, but because it is rabidly anti-Eastern European. (Btw, while we’re on this topic did you ever notice what Switzerland did? That’s right, it did what every EE population should’ve done if it had had the means).

    You are very quick to call me “provincial”, yet you don’t even know what books I’ve read, that I literally grew up with 80% Russians (unlike many other Latvians), what and how many Russian (and Ukrainian) tv shows I’ve watched, etc? Do you have any comprehension of any language besides English, before you call ME provincial? Or do you just read the alt-right sites in English and form your world view based on that? Alt right is not bad, I read them too sometimes, but you surely must realize that they are not entirely objective or paint the full picture….

    In all my above posts, I was trying to make a subtle but consistent argument that Putin is not Stalin (and Donbass is not Crimea). But you just keep parroting this “Zionist stuff” and refuse to go back to that map where it shows the percentages of Russians in the East. Above all, you deny (West) Ukrainians have any agency, which, IMO, is the biggest mistake you and many Russians make. And, btw, do you happen to have any other info on what Putin’s goals in the region are? Can you get into his head? I didn’t think so.

    Actually, this just made me think a bit about this EU Association treaty. I used to think that this was what Russians in the East are fighting against and that the whole ordeal over the association agreement was the reason why Russia made the “pre-emptive” move to absorb Crimea and provide Donetsk with arms. But now that I really thought about it, I realized it was just a pretext – some kind of hostility was inevitable anyway, sooner or later. Nuland or no Nuland. Which is rather disappointing given how long they lived together in relative peace (and this is why we should give Ukraine some credit because it is not easy to “rule over” a ethnically non-homogeneous states, as all the super democratic and affluent Western countries will soon discover).

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    So this 5 billion dollars ...

    … what exactly was it used for?
     
    I'm sure if the US State Dept used it in Ukraine, where they've previously orchestrated things like the Orange revolution, that this money was used for feeding orphans and promoting love and harmony in the Ukraine. What else would someone like Nuland use the money for?

    Well, first, it sounded like you implied that just because Poles and Germans had issues over Gdansk, that that was enough reason for Germany to invade Poland
     
    I didn't say it justified Germany invading Poland, only that the reason Germany did was over the corridor.

    And as far as I'm concerned, the treaty of Versailles was a travesty and a monumental injustice against the German people. Especially the ones who're forced to live under a regime that is/was hostile to them. Do you note the consistency? I think all people are entitled to self-determination, and that when it's denied, like to the Germans in Danzig, or the Germans in the Sudetenland, or the Russian speaking minority in Donbass, (or the Kurds in Turkey or whites in Zimbabwe. or the Palestinians in Palestine ...) that it's a recipe for trouble.

    (and set up a whole bunch of concentration camps in Poland where Polish citizens were exterminated, including and above all non-communist Polish citizens (for example, mothers, musicians and Catholic priests)),
     
    ever heard of a place called Katyn forrest?

    the Nazis were many things. Some of them bad, as for example their less than courteous (barbarous) treatment of some ethnic groups and other minorities, like gays for instance.

    But one thing they decidedly were not, was stupid. And for the Nazis to round up mothers and musicians and inoffensive Catholic priests who were not in any way engaged in the belligerence, would have been so colossally stupid as to beggar comprehension. So yes, LW, in all likelihood, the people the Nazis rounded up and put into camps, were people they considered a threat. Jewish communists and agitators, resistance fighters or their sympathizers, and undoubtedly many throngs of innocent people ground under in during that mass-insanity. But I just can't imagine the Nazis going to some Sunday school teachers house, and seeing that she didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes, and then herding her into a concentration camp to be killed for her non-Aryan features or because she played the piano. If they did such things, they would never have been such a threat to the free world.

    You are very quick to call me “provincial”, yet you don’t even know what books I’ve read,
     
    I've already said I wasn't using the word in a pejorative way honey. Being provincial can simply mean being a local to an area. Ok? Look it up

    Ukrainians have any agency, which, IMO, is the biggest mistake you and many Russians make.
     
    wtf are you talking about?

    when did I deny Ukrainians agency? Did I say they were being duped by some very nasty elements from the CIA and our State Dept. and that the quislings in their government were corrupt stooges of the war mongers like McCain and Nuland? Why yes! Yes I did. And do.

    But that doesn't meant that the Ukrainian people are any less capable of volition, only that they're being duped, and by some very sinister folks, who're using them as cannon fodder and who couldn't give a fuck about them, unless to see them all die horribly in a contrived (and insane) war with Russia.

    do you happen to have any other info on what Putin’s goals in the region are? Can you get into his head? I didn’t think so.
     
    we don't have to get into his head. We know what his agenda is and has been by how he acts. In every provocation that the war pigs like McCain foist upon Putin, he always responds with measured and responsible restraint. The Zio-Fiend has been provoking Putin in way in can, from Georgia to the Caucasus all the way to Sochi and now Ukraine. And always, Putin has conducted himself like an actual statesman on this world's stage. He's the only adult in the room when it comes to all these follies and misadventures that our criminal regime in Washington DC foments all over the place. So no, it isn't necessary to get into the guy's brain to see that he's a reasonable and even-keeled man. Decidedly unlike Porky who's a clown and a buffoon. At best.

    I realized it was just a pretext – some kind of hostility was inevitable anyway, sooner or later.
     
    nope

    not in Ukraine or Syria or Libya or Iraq or Afghanistan, (well, maybe in Afghanistan, but that's another story)

    No, these wars and imperial acts of conquest and serial destabilizations are all being orchestrated by the Fiend. They come up against some resitance to their agenda of planetary domination, and then they target a province where there's some strife, and they send in the CIA and NGOs and set about spending money and buying protesters and provocateurs and they tweak the people's sentiments and agitate for 'change'.

    If Ukraine was left to itself, it would have languished in poverty and corruption, because it already had enough oligarchs looting it dry and corrupt politicians slurping at the trough, but they wouldn't have had war. Now they have war and even more oligarchs looting them and even worse politicians slurping at the trough but also seeking out ways to get them slaughtered.

    were it not for McCain and Nuland and the zio-neocons and war pigs, they would still be alive today

    http://mungaz.net/uploads/posts/2014-07/1406468884_gorlovka-1.jpg
  131. No, Rurik, I’m not being rude, just consistent, like you should be, too – Trump said – Ukraine is “a European issue”, America first, isolationism, all that stuff. Ok, fine, it was nice knowing ya. Then don’t shove your nose in the Russo-Ukranian (or any other Euro) affairs anymore. That’s the choice you make.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    No, Rurik, I’m not being rude, just consistent, like you should be, too – Trump said – Ukraine is “a European issue”, America first, isolationism, all that stuff. Ok, fine, it was nice knowing ya. Then don’t shove your nose in the Russo-Ukranian (or any other Euro) affairs anymore
     
    WTF are you talking about?!

    are you actually trying to say that if I prefer Trump to Hillary that it then means that I support absolutely virtually everything the man has ever suggested?

    have you lost whatever marbles you might have once had?

    that's about the stupidest fucking thing I've read in a while, and that's saying a lot.
  132. annamarina, you are so predictable. And what does transit have to do with this article? Russia, as much as I’d like to have an intense trade relationship with them, is a highly, highly unpredictable trading partner. This is why we have long since directed our trade elsewhere (not saying this is ideal, far from it, and it’s not really like it was our decision in the first place). What’s wrong with me positing that not knowing the Russian or Ukrainian languages is a major handicap while trying to analyze those countries? It should be clear to any idiot (I’d pay to see Rurik watch the Russian tv with a translation were they bash Americans daily – the people, not the government, the Americans don’t know half of what Russians really think of them). After all, in another article here, someone was disparaging this Michael Weiss persona for trying to pretend to be a “Russia expert” without actually knowing Russian (I agree). There is just so much stuff that doesn’t even leave the Russian ether.

    I don’t want to talk about Jews?? Where? I can talk about the Jews, I just really don’t know much about the Ukrainian oligarch Jews (my bad) or these mysterious Anglo-Zionists that Rurik keeps parroting about. I never said the Jews didn’t have a tribal agenda, I just said that right now I am more interested in this Slavic peoples’ ordeal. I don’t care much for simplistic explanations (e.g., “It’s the Jews!!!”). Are you also one of those primitive people who sees an evil Jew and an evil Nazi under every bed?

    With regards to Latvians in the German forces (illegally conscripted most of them at a gun point, some of them as young as 17, btw – that alone a huge injustice to my people, those men were supposed to get married and work for our society, not serve Germany), at least, I own it (as you can see in my other posts on this board). Unlike the Russians who will never own it. It’s their business.

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  133. And, Rurik, it’s not like the only choice during WW2 and the Nazi occupation, was to join the Nazis against the USSR. There was a nationalist (non-communist) anti-Nazi occupation movement, too. But, of course, it is nowhere near as exciting as the Nazis, I get it.

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  134. @Latvian woman
    So this 5 billion dollars (which btw is what fraction of their annual budget and over how many years is this spread out?) - is it something they used to translate Hannah Arendt and Frankfurt school books in Ukranian, pass out some scholarships like Fulbright, "promote inclusion and women's rights" or anything real and serious... what exactly was it used for?

    Well, first, it sounded like you implied that just because Poles and Germans had issues over Gdansk, that that was enough reason for Germany to invade Poland (and set up a whole bunch of concentration camps in Poland where Polish citizens were exterminated, including and above all non-communist Polish citizens (for example, mothers, musicians and Catholic priests)), invade Czechoslovakia, the Baltic states and Soviet Russia. I'm not bringing this up because such an assumption is "un-historic" or purely imbecile, but because it is rabidly anti-Eastern European. (Btw, while we're on this topic did you ever notice what Switzerland did? That's right, it did what every EE population should've done if it had had the means).

    You are very quick to call me "provincial", yet you don't even know what books I've read, that I literally grew up with 80% Russians (unlike many other Latvians), what and how many Russian (and Ukrainian) tv shows I've watched, etc? Do you have any comprehension of any language besides English, before you call ME provincial? Or do you just read the alt-right sites in English and form your world view based on that? Alt right is not bad, I read them too sometimes, but you surely must realize that they are not entirely objective or paint the full picture....

    In all my above posts, I was trying to make a subtle but consistent argument that Putin is not Stalin (and Donbass is not Crimea). But you just keep parroting this "Zionist stuff" and refuse to go back to that map where it shows the percentages of Russians in the East. Above all, you deny (West) Ukrainians have any agency, which, IMO, is the biggest mistake you and many Russians make. And, btw, do you happen to have any other info on what Putin's goals in the region are? Can you get into his head? I didn't think so.

    Actually, this just made me think a bit about this EU Association treaty. I used to think that this was what Russians in the East are fighting against and that the whole ordeal over the association agreement was the reason why Russia made the "pre-emptive" move to absorb Crimea and provide Donetsk with arms. But now that I really thought about it, I realized it was just a pretext - some kind of hostility was inevitable anyway, sooner or later. Nuland or no Nuland. Which is rather disappointing given how long they lived together in relative peace (and this is why we should give Ukraine some credit because it is not easy to "rule over" a ethnically non-homogeneous states, as all the super democratic and affluent Western countries will soon discover).

    So this 5 billion dollars …

    … what exactly was it used for?

    I’m sure if the US State Dept used it in Ukraine, where they’ve previously orchestrated things like the Orange revolution, that this money was used for feeding orphans and promoting love and harmony in the Ukraine. What else would someone like Nuland use the money for?

    Well, first, it sounded like you implied that just because Poles and Germans had issues over Gdansk, that that was enough reason for Germany to invade Poland

    I didn’t say it justified Germany invading Poland, only that the reason Germany did was over the corridor.

    And as far as I’m concerned, the treaty of Versailles was a travesty and a monumental injustice against the German people. Especially the ones who’re forced to live under a regime that is/was hostile to them. Do you note the consistency? I think all people are entitled to self-determination, and that when it’s denied, like to the Germans in Danzig, or the Germans in the Sudetenland, or the Russian speaking minority in Donbass, (or the Kurds in Turkey or whites in Zimbabwe. or the Palestinians in Palestine …) that it’s a recipe for trouble.

    (and set up a whole bunch of concentration camps in Poland where Polish citizens were exterminated, including and above all non-communist Polish citizens (for example, mothers, musicians and Catholic priests)),

    ever heard of a place called Katyn forrest?

    the Nazis were many things. Some of them bad, as for example their less than courteous (barbarous) treatment of some ethnic groups and other minorities, like gays for instance.

    But one thing they decidedly were not, was stupid. And for the Nazis to round up mothers and musicians and inoffensive Catholic priests who were not in any way engaged in the belligerence, would have been so colossally stupid as to beggar comprehension. So yes, LW, in all likelihood, the people the Nazis rounded up and put into camps, were people they considered a threat. Jewish communists and agitators, resistance fighters or their sympathizers, and undoubtedly many throngs of innocent people ground under in during that mass-insanity. But I just can’t imagine the Nazis going to some Sunday school teachers house, and seeing that she didn’t have blonde hair and blue eyes, and then herding her into a concentration camp to be killed for her non-Aryan features or because she played the piano. If they did such things, they would never have been such a threat to the free world.

    You are very quick to call me “provincial”, yet you don’t even know what books I’ve read,

    I’ve already said I wasn’t using the word in a pejorative way honey. Being provincial can simply mean being a local to an area. Ok? Look it up

    Ukrainians have any agency, which, IMO, is the biggest mistake you and many Russians make.

    wtf are you talking about?

    when did I deny Ukrainians agency? Did I say they were being duped by some very nasty elements from the CIA and our State Dept. and that the quislings in their government were corrupt stooges of the war mongers like McCain and Nuland? Why yes! Yes I did. And do.

    But that doesn’t meant that the Ukrainian people are any less capable of volition, only that they’re being duped, and by some very sinister folks, who’re using them as cannon fodder and who couldn’t give a fuck about them, unless to see them all die horribly in a contrived (and insane) war with Russia.

    do you happen to have any other info on what Putin’s goals in the region are? Can you get into his head? I didn’t think so.

    we don’t have to get into his head. We know what his agenda is and has been by how he acts. In every provocation that the war pigs like McCain foist upon Putin, he always responds with measured and responsible restraint. The Zio-Fiend has been provoking Putin in way in can, from Georgia to the Caucasus all the way to Sochi and now Ukraine. And always, Putin has conducted himself like an actual statesman on this world’s stage. He’s the only adult in the room when it comes to all these follies and misadventures that our criminal regime in Washington DC foments all over the place. So no, it isn’t necessary to get into the guy’s brain to see that he’s a reasonable and even-keeled man. Decidedly unlike Porky who’s a clown and a buffoon. At best.

    I realized it was just a pretext – some kind of hostility was inevitable anyway, sooner or later.

    nope

    not in Ukraine or Syria or Libya or Iraq or Afghanistan, (well, maybe in Afghanistan, but that’s another story)

    No, these wars and imperial acts of conquest and serial destabilizations are all being orchestrated by the Fiend. They come up against some resitance to their agenda of planetary domination, and then they target a province where there’s some strife, and they send in the CIA and NGOs and set about spending money and buying protesters and provocateurs and they tweak the people’s sentiments and agitate for ‘change’.

    If Ukraine was left to itself, it would have languished in poverty and corruption, because it already had enough oligarchs looting it dry and corrupt politicians slurping at the trough, but they wouldn’t have had war. Now they have war and even more oligarchs looting them and even worse politicians slurping at the trough but also seeking out ways to get them slaughtered.

    were it not for McCain and Nuland and the zio-neocons and war pigs, they would still be alive today

    http://mungaz.net/uploads/posts/2014-07/1406468884_gorlovka-1.jpg

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  135. @Latvian woman
    No, Rurik, I'm not being rude, just consistent, like you should be, too - Trump said - Ukraine is "a European issue", America first, isolationism, all that stuff. Ok, fine, it was nice knowing ya. Then don't shove your nose in the Russo-Ukranian (or any other Euro) affairs anymore. That's the choice you make.

    No, Rurik, I’m not being rude, just consistent, like you should be, too – Trump said – Ukraine is “a European issue”, America first, isolationism, all that stuff. Ok, fine, it was nice knowing ya. Then don’t shove your nose in the Russo-Ukranian (or any other Euro) affairs anymore

    WTF are you talking about?!

    are you actually trying to say that if I prefer Trump to Hillary that it then means that I support absolutely virtually everything the man has ever suggested?

    have you lost whatever marbles you might have once had?

    that’s about the stupidest fucking thing I’ve read in a while, and that’s saying a lot.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    As I suggested before - LW is a provocateur. Don't take 'her' seriously.
  136. And, Rurik, you are very quick to call ALL Western Ukranians “neo-Nazis”. You throw that around with the same ease that the liberals call any dissenting party “racists”, “xenophobes”, etc. But it hasn’t really occurred to you that many Ukrainian nationals actually prefer a government that is not pro-Russian. That alone doesn’t turn them into “Nazis”. Here on the other pages we have Pat Buchanan claiming how Americans have a right to say over their country, culture. Yet when Ukrainians want that – you call them “Nazis”. What a double standard.

    No, I’m saying you have to be consistent – if you vote for Trump, then you should support America’s withdrawal from EE. America leaves the table. Becomes just another country.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    And, Rurik, you are very quick to call ALL Western Ukranians “neo-Nazis”.
     
    with my fist post to this thread (#47) I said specifically that I disagreed with the characterization of the Ukrainian people who want a state free of Russian influence, as "ukronazis"

    I said exatly the oppose of what you're accusing me of saying, and on the very same thread that you're hurling your invectives, without any idea of wtf you're taking about.

    >>sigh<<

    But it hasn’t really occurred to you that many Ukrainian nationals actually prefer a government that is not pro-Russian.
     
    it has occurred to me and I stated that they're entiled to self-determination, just like everyone else. And I said it on this very thread.

    Yet when Ukrainians want that – you call them “Nazis”.
     
    just the opposite honey

    I called the young men who goose step around in Nazi regalia and who make Nazi salutes ~ Nazis. Not the Ukrainian people, whom I defended specifically as not being Nazis with my first post to this thread. In objection to the Saker calling them "ukronazis"

    But now I'm starting to wonder if anything I actually say has any bearing whatsoever with what you're going to accuse me of next. So I'm starting to suspect (sadly) that you're just another obnoxious troll, as other have suggested.

    No, I’m saying you have to be consistent – if you vote for Trump, then you should support America’s withdrawal from EE. America leaves the table. Becomes just another country.
     
    for what it's worth, although I disagree with Trump on many things, I do happened to agree that the US should stay out of other nation's affairs, and stop meddling and foisting wars and strife and theft and misery. Nothing would make me happier than for America to become just another (peaceful) country. If Trump can give us that, well then, we'll have two statesmen on the world's stage. And a hope for real peace and general prosperity.

    no "entangling alliances"
  137. @Rurik

    No, Rurik, I’m not being rude, just consistent, like you should be, too – Trump said – Ukraine is “a European issue”, America first, isolationism, all that stuff. Ok, fine, it was nice knowing ya. Then don’t shove your nose in the Russo-Ukranian (or any other Euro) affairs anymore
     
    WTF are you talking about?!

    are you actually trying to say that if I prefer Trump to Hillary that it then means that I support absolutely virtually everything the man has ever suggested?

    have you lost whatever marbles you might have once had?

    that's about the stupidest fucking thing I've read in a while, and that's saying a lot.

    As I suggested before – LW is a provocateur. Don’t take ‘her’ seriously.

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  138. And, Rurik, it’s not like the only choice during WW2 and the Nazi occupation, was to join the Nazis against the USSR.

    what is this mysterious movement that was a viable alternative to either fighting for the commies / or the Nazis. Because I’ve never heard of it. (unless it was some cowards afraid to fight to protect their homelands and families from the invading hoards of rapists and genocidal, Soviet enslavers, and preferred to sit in their basements and cry and wring their hands)

    From everything I’ve read, you had two choices if you were a fighting age man during that mass-insanity, and that was to side with the (hated and arrogant) Nazis, or side with the genocidal rapists, and become a Red Army rapist yourself. (I’m sure that appealed to a lot of young men, just as it appeals to the men of ISIS.) But these are not the heroic men that fought for their country and their lands and their families and their freedom, by donning the German uniform and setting about to righteously kill some commies. It is these men, not the rapists, that places like the Ukraine and Baltic states understandably want to honor.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/latvians-honor-nazi-allies-world-war-ii-164529231.html?ref=gs

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/16/hundreds-march-in-latvia-to-honor-wwii-veterans-who-fought-alongside-nazis.html

    God bless those people, and the men they’re honoring. I hope you were among them Latvian woman. It would reflect well on your character and soul, to acknowledge the sacrifice these men made for you.

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  139. @Latvian woman
    And, Rurik, you are very quick to call ALL Western Ukranians "neo-Nazis". You throw that around with the same ease that the liberals call any dissenting party "racists", "xenophobes", etc. But it hasn't really occurred to you that many Ukrainian nationals actually prefer a government that is not pro-Russian. That alone doesn't turn them into "Nazis". Here on the other pages we have Pat Buchanan claiming how Americans have a right to say over their country, culture. Yet when Ukrainians want that - you call them "Nazis". What a double standard.

    No, I'm saying you have to be consistent - if you vote for Trump, then you should support America's withdrawal from EE. America leaves the table. Becomes just another country.

    And, Rurik, you are very quick to call ALL Western Ukranians “neo-Nazis”.

    with my fist post to this thread (#47) I said specifically that I disagreed with the characterization of the Ukrainian people who want a state free of Russian influence, as “ukronazis”

    I said exatly the oppose of what you’re accusing me of saying, and on the very same thread that you’re hurling your invectives, without any idea of wtf you’re taking about.

    >>sigh<<

    But it hasn’t really occurred to you that many Ukrainian nationals actually prefer a government that is not pro-Russian.

    it has occurred to me and I stated that they’re entiled to self-determination, just like everyone else. And I said it on this very thread.

    Yet when Ukrainians want that – you call them “Nazis”.

    just the opposite honey

    I called the young men who goose step around in Nazi regalia and who make Nazi salutes ~ Nazis. Not the Ukrainian people, whom I defended specifically as not being Nazis with my first post to this thread. In objection to the Saker calling them “ukronazis”

    But now I’m starting to wonder if anything I actually say has any bearing whatsoever with what you’re going to accuse me of next. So I’m starting to suspect (sadly) that you’re just another obnoxious troll, as other have suggested.

    No, I’m saying you have to be consistent – if you vote for Trump, then you should support America’s withdrawal from EE. America leaves the table. Becomes just another country.

    for what it’s worth, although I disagree with Trump on many things, I do happened to agree that the US should stay out of other nation’s affairs, and stop meddling and foisting wars and strife and theft and misery. Nothing would make me happier than for America to become just another (peaceful) country. If Trump can give us that, well then, we’ll have two statesmen on the world’s stage. And a hope for real peace and general prosperity.

    no “entangling alliances”

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  140. Oh, yes, Rurik, I agree that any one who represented the Polish state and Polish culture WAS a threat to the Nazis. You bet. And why is this? Because the Nazis thought that the Poles and other Slavs will be their subhuman servants for another thousand years. That was exactly the motive for all the invasions. There was no casus belli. There was no lack of space in Germany. Only the entitlement. But you can keep your opinion, it is between you and the Creator then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Because the Nazis thought that the Poles and other Slavs will be their subhuman servants for another thousand years.
     
    that's the cartoon version

    but had Poland granted a corridor to Danzig, I suspect there might have been peace

    at least for a while

    but the Fiend was not just going to sit there and allow Germany to thrive and prosper and worst of all, be happy, not while the Fiend lived and breathed

    oh fuck no

    and today it's the very same Fiend that's foisting all the wars and hate (it seems literally to virtually exist on hate, like it's hate that nurtures it and sustains it) just like it was in 1930s, or the that other 'war, 'to end all wars'

    you want to see hate festering and driving people insane? Go to Palestine. Go to Kyiv or Donbass. Go to Iraq or Syria or Libya. Those are places consumed by hatred. It seems that there is some kind of demonic force, that permeates places like this and gets in the ether, and turns all the people against their neighbors and drives them insane with bloodlust and well, hate.

    we have it too, in the US

    we have a contrived narrative that is intended to drive people insane to the point of irrational, murderous hatred

    it's called 'white privilege, (among other things), but its purpose is to convince blacks and others in this country that all of their misery and all of their suffering is a direct consequence of the evil that lurks in the hearts of white people. Because white people don't give them equal funding for their schools. White people send racist cops into their neighborhoods to shoot their young men.

    It's another cartoon narrative that uses half truths and lies to foist a version of reality that has perfect evil on one side, (racist white [especially] men) vs. eternally innocent victims of racism and slavery on the other

    this contrived and absurd 'reality' drives people insane with hatred, and that is the point. The Fiend loves hate, and thrives on it. It verily flourishes on it

    you mention Hitler's ranting about the Slavs as untermenschen, and how many Poles were understandably put off by that kind of talk, as well they should be. But what about things like the Morgenthau Plan? Which were official plans accepted by FDR and Churchill that basically intended a 'final solution' to the German people. Germany would be turned into a pasture (a Carthage). Its remaining citizens made literally shipped off as slaves to serve non-Germans. There was hatred and racism to go around it seems. But the way the cartoon narrative goes, is that the Nazis were pure evil, and the allies were pure good. And that is pure dog shit.

    There was good and evil on all sides, and just like with all of these contrived conflicts, all the nuance goes out the window and the people's perspectives are reduced to idiotic cartoon versions of reality, where they are perfect good and those they hate are perfect evil.

    It's hogwash.

    and it's the same hogwash that drove the world insane during the world wars, and is driving the Ukraine hysteria, and the Palestine hysteria, and the Iraq and Libyan and Syrian hysteria.

    and do you want to know the common element with all of these conflicts?

    Zionism

    until the Zionists arrived (Nuland, McCain, et al), Ukraine was corrupt and languishing, but they weren't slaughtering each other. But then comes Nuland (from her family) and brings those five billion dollars, and soon enough you have people setting buildings on fire with other people in it. You have hatred so otherworldly, that they're burning their neighbors alive.

    Things in Ukraine were bad, but they weren't that bad, until the (Zionist) NATO Fiend slithered in

    and why did the Zionists come to Ukraine? Because Putin had stopped them in Syria. And this was their way of getting back at him.

    and for the Golan Heights- and Israel's desire to steal it, did that young mother and her child end up bloody in the grass
  141. {(hated and arrogant) Nazis, or side with the genocidal rapists, and become a Red Army rapist yourself.}

    So Nazis are simply (hated and arrogant) but the Red Army was, quote, ‘genocidal’?

    So did the Nazi invaders, who murdered about 10 million Slavic civilians in USSR, about 3 millions Poles, millions of Jews, and other Untermenschen bring flowers to the Slavic women they were going to gang-rape and murder?

    What a choice: become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer or become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer and end up like this in Stalingrad:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Stalingrad-dead_bodies.jpg

    The Red Army was very forgiving towards Germans in face of what Nazi German invaders did to Slavic civilians and intended to do to Slavs, had they won their twisted, diabolical Lebensraum (aka land stolen form the original owners after the owners were murdered).

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    So Nazis are simply (hated and arrogant) but the Red Army was, quote, ‘genocidal’?
     
    have you ever heard of an event called the Holodomor, Avery?

    it describes a monstrous genocidal crime of otherworldly cruelty

    there are people today that, while knowing it happened, don't want to call it a special name, or even recognize that it was a genocide, because that might lesson the impact of the one and only "genocide" that the entire world is supposed to genuflect to.

    I happen to be one of the people who is disgusted by some people acting like their people's suffering is more significant than other people's suffering, in the grand scheme of things. Because they, in their racism, only want people to honor their ancestors who died so terribly.

    the 20th century knew many horrors, and many genocides. It seems to me that there is another genocide that some people would prefer to be forgotten. And refuse to even call it a genocide.

    Do you know of any people like that Avery? Can you imagine what kind of rotten souls they must have, for trying to diminish the horrors of other people's murdered ancestors so that they can bolster the sympathy for their own?

    those kinds of people must really stink, huh Avery?

    bring flowers to the Slavic women they were going to gang-rape and murder?
     
    the Wehrmacht, for all their murderous savagery, was not know for wanton gang rapes of civilian women and children. The Nazi high command were very strict about such things. Even if they did allow the soldiers to slaughter people, they weren't allowed to rape them wholesale. Like the Red Army was encouraged to do by the Soviet high command.

    What a choice: become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer or become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer
     
    you can't even say it

    genocidal Soviet invader and mass-murderer

    and yes, that was pretty much the stark choice a military age man had. If your family perished in the Holodomor, which side would you choose?

    The Red Army was very forgiving towards Germans in face of what Nazi German invaders did
     
    please let me explain something to you Avery

    the little girls and old German (and Polish and Estonian and Latvian and Russian and everything else they could get their sub-human hands on) women did not invade anyone. They were often children, and were so brutalized, that for me, it almost makes what Hitler said about them sound true. That this was a race of sub-human, drooling ogres. That's certainly how they acted, when given a chance to express themselves without constraints.

    If I were a Pole, and watched what the Red Army did to women and children, (just as it did to the best of the Polish people at Katyn) then likely I'd too have donned the Wehrmacht uniform and set about to slaughter some drooling sub-human rapists.
  142. So, Rurik, you are telling me that you don’t know how this mysterious 5 billion that is floating around this website was really spent? Who allocated it and for what purposes? All you can say is that there was the Orange revolution. 5 billion over how many years? Only during the months of Maidan?

    Anyway, you are saying that the Nazis had the right to kill all those Catholic priests, all those professors, the children who they stole but later figured they’d just kill? Wow. This is very very anti EE.

    And you keep saying Ukraine is corrupt. So is the US, btw. And a little hush hush here – the Western governments use “corrupt” as a pretext to push local players out of lucrative sectors. As in, hey, this guy is so corrupt, let me come in and buy it all up and ship all the profits abroad.

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  143. There was something called the Latvian Central Council who tried to organize resistance against both Germans and Bolsheviks (I know, I know, they’re not as exciting as the Nazis and it is easier to perpetuate a BS myth that there are “only two choices” – between two different criminal gangs). One of our Legionnaire songs has the following text: “We will beat the reds, then we will beat the Germans” (that’s the polite version of it).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    There was something called the Latvian Central Council
     
    I've said it a thousand times!

    the Slavic people who fought for the Germans did so by holding their noses. They hated the arrogant Nazis, but it was more important to expel the genocidal fiends of the Soviet Union first!

    How many times I wonder must I keep repeating this?

    it's like the cartoon narrative becomes hardwired into people's brains after so much time. It becomes concretized into slavish repetition of trite mantras and bromides.

    BS myth that there are “only two choices” – between two different criminal gangs).
     
    it's not a myth. That was the facts on the ground. Lativa was under Soviet occupation. Duh. If you were going to try to get them out, you were going to have to side with the Germans who were the only game in town. You could go out to the forest and live like an animal, but that wouldn't have helped get the commies out of your lands. Only by siding with the Germans did the patriotic Latvians have a chance to free Latvia, and then yes, absolutely turn your eyes to the Germans and say thank you, now get the fuck out.

    This was the attitude of many, many millions of Russians and Poles and Cossacks and Norwegians so many others that fought on the side of Germany. Not because they liked Germany occupying their lands. They didn't. They hated that. Of course they did. But the Nazis, for all of their arrogance and hubris and imperiousness, at least didn't seem to want to rape and enslave and then slaughter every last one of them. If you look at Vichy France, it almost looks pleasant, at least compared to today!
  144. “I’m sure that appealed to a lot of young men, just as it appeals to the men of ISIS.”

    How do you know this? Is that what appeals to many young American men?

    You know what is the real deal, Rurik? The real deal, real manhood, is going into the forest at the end of the war, when everything has been decided (mostly against you), staying there for years and fighting a guerilla war from there.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    How do you know this? Is that what appeals to many young American men?
     
    I guess you're implying that because I said there are men out there, (like the ones in ISIS) that are sub-human rapists at heart, that because I'm the one that made that observation, and because I'm a man too! Well that Ipso facto that must meant that I too! am a sniveling, craven rapist at heart as well!!

    charming LW

    not

    The real deal, real manhood, is going into the forest...
     
    so now you're telling me what a real man is?

    you rather seem on the brink at this point LW
  145. @Latvian woman
    Oh, yes, Rurik, I agree that any one who represented the Polish state and Polish culture WAS a threat to the Nazis. You bet. And why is this? Because the Nazis thought that the Poles and other Slavs will be their subhuman servants for another thousand years. That was exactly the motive for all the invasions. There was no casus belli. There was no lack of space in Germany. Only the entitlement. But you can keep your opinion, it is between you and the Creator then.

    Because the Nazis thought that the Poles and other Slavs will be their subhuman servants for another thousand years.

    that’s the cartoon version

    but had Poland granted a corridor to Danzig, I suspect there might have been peace

    at least for a while

    but the Fiend was not just going to sit there and allow Germany to thrive and prosper and worst of all, be happy, not while the Fiend lived and breathed

    oh fuck no

    and today it’s the very same Fiend that’s foisting all the wars and hate (it seems literally to virtually exist on hate, like it’s hate that nurtures it and sustains it) just like it was in 1930s, or the that other ‘war, ‘to end all wars’

    you want to see hate festering and driving people insane? Go to Palestine. Go to Kyiv or Donbass. Go to Iraq or Syria or Libya. Those are places consumed by hatred. It seems that there is some kind of demonic force, that permeates places like this and gets in the ether, and turns all the people against their neighbors and drives them insane with bloodlust and well, hate.

    we have it too, in the US

    we have a contrived narrative that is intended to drive people insane to the point of irrational, murderous hatred

    it’s called ‘white privilege, (among other things), but its purpose is to convince blacks and others in this country that all of their misery and all of their suffering is a direct consequence of the evil that lurks in the hearts of white people. Because white people don’t give them equal funding for their schools. White people send racist cops into their neighborhoods to shoot their young men.

    It’s another cartoon narrative that uses half truths and lies to foist a version of reality that has perfect evil on one side, (racist white [especially] men) vs. eternally innocent victims of racism and slavery on the other

    this contrived and absurd ‘reality’ drives people insane with hatred, and that is the point. The Fiend loves hate, and thrives on it. It verily flourishes on it

    you mention Hitler’s ranting about the Slavs as untermenschen, and how many Poles were understandably put off by that kind of talk, as well they should be. But what about things like the Morgenthau Plan? Which were official plans accepted by FDR and Churchill that basically intended a ‘final solution’ to the German people. Germany would be turned into a pasture (a Carthage). Its remaining citizens made literally shipped off as slaves to serve non-Germans. There was hatred and racism to go around it seems. But the way the cartoon narrative goes, is that the Nazis were pure evil, and the allies were pure good. And that is pure dog shit.

    There was good and evil on all sides, and just like with all of these contrived conflicts, all the nuance goes out the window and the people’s perspectives are reduced to idiotic cartoon versions of reality, where they are perfect good and those they hate are perfect evil.

    It’s hogwash.

    and it’s the same hogwash that drove the world insane during the world wars, and is driving the Ukraine hysteria, and the Palestine hysteria, and the Iraq and Libyan and Syrian hysteria.

    and do you want to know the common element with all of these conflicts?

    Zionism

    until the Zionists arrived (Nuland, McCain, et al), Ukraine was corrupt and languishing, but they weren’t slaughtering each other. But then comes Nuland (from her family) and brings those five billion dollars, and soon enough you have people setting buildings on fire with other people in it. You have hatred so otherworldly, that they’re burning their neighbors alive.

    Things in Ukraine were bad, but they weren’t that bad, until the (Zionist) NATO Fiend slithered in

    and why did the Zionists come to Ukraine? Because Putin had stopped them in Syria. And this was their way of getting back at him.

    and for the Golan Heights- and Israel’s desire to steal it, did that young mother and her child end up bloody in the grass

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  146. @Avery
    {(hated and arrogant) Nazis, or side with the genocidal rapists, and become a Red Army rapist yourself.}

    So Nazis are simply (hated and arrogant) but the Red Army was, quote, 'genocidal'?

    So did the Nazi invaders, who murdered about 10 million Slavic civilians in USSR, about 3 millions Poles, millions of Jews, and other Untermenschen bring flowers to the Slavic women they were going to gang-rape and murder?

    What a choice: become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer or become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer and end up like this in Stalingrad:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Stalingrad-dead_bodies.jpg

    The Red Army was very forgiving towards Germans in face of what Nazi German invaders did to Slavic civilians and intended to do to Slavs, had they won their twisted, diabolical Lebensraum (aka land stolen form the original owners after the owners were murdered).

    So Nazis are simply (hated and arrogant) but the Red Army was, quote, ‘genocidal’?

    have you ever heard of an event called the Holodomor, Avery?

    it describes a monstrous genocidal crime of otherworldly cruelty

    there are people today that, while knowing it happened, don’t want to call it a special name, or even recognize that it was a genocide, because that might lesson the impact of the one and only “genocide” that the entire world is supposed to genuflect to.

    I happen to be one of the people who is disgusted by some people acting like their people’s suffering is more significant than other people’s suffering, in the grand scheme of things. Because they, in their racism, only want people to honor their ancestors who died so terribly.

    the 20th century knew many horrors, and many genocides. It seems to me that there is another genocide that some people would prefer to be forgotten. And refuse to even call it a genocide.

    Do you know of any people like that Avery? Can you imagine what kind of rotten souls they must have, for trying to diminish the horrors of other people’s murdered ancestors so that they can bolster the sympathy for their own?

    those kinds of people must really stink, huh Avery?

    bring flowers to the Slavic women they were going to gang-rape and murder?

    the Wehrmacht, for all their murderous savagery, was not know for wanton gang rapes of civilian women and children. The Nazi high command were very strict about such things. Even if they did allow the soldiers to slaughter people, they weren’t allowed to rape them wholesale. Like the Red Army was encouraged to do by the Soviet high command.

    What a choice: become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer or become a genocidal Nazi invader and mass-murderer

    you can’t even say it

    genocidal Soviet invader and mass-murderer

    and yes, that was pretty much the stark choice a military age man had. If your family perished in the Holodomor, which side would you choose?

    The Red Army was very forgiving towards Germans in face of what Nazi German invaders did

    please let me explain something to you Avery

    the little girls and old German (and Polish and Estonian and Latvian and Russian and everything else they could get their sub-human hands on) women did not invade anyone. They were often children, and were so brutalized, that for me, it almost makes what Hitler said about them sound true. That this was a race of sub-human, drooling ogres. That’s certainly how they acted, when given a chance to express themselves without constraints.

    If I were a Pole, and watched what the Red Army did to women and children, (just as it did to the best of the Polish people at Katyn) then likely I’d too have donned the Wehrmacht uniform and set about to slaughter some drooling sub-human rapists.

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  147. @Latvian woman
    There was something called the Latvian Central Council who tried to organize resistance against both Germans and Bolsheviks (I know, I know, they're not as exciting as the Nazis and it is easier to perpetuate a BS myth that there are "only two choices" - between two different criminal gangs). One of our Legionnaire songs has the following text: "We will beat the reds, then we will beat the Germans" (that's the polite version of it).

    There was something called the Latvian Central Council

    I’ve said it a thousand times!

    the Slavic people who fought for the Germans did so by holding their noses. They hated the arrogant Nazis, but it was more important to expel the genocidal fiends of the Soviet Union first!

    How many times I wonder must I keep repeating this?

    it’s like the cartoon narrative becomes hardwired into people’s brains after so much time. It becomes concretized into slavish repetition of trite mantras and bromides.

    BS myth that there are “only two choices” – between two different criminal gangs).

    it’s not a myth. That was the facts on the ground. Lativa was under Soviet occupation. Duh. If you were going to try to get them out, you were going to have to side with the Germans who were the only game in town. You could go out to the forest and live like an animal, but that wouldn’t have helped get the commies out of your lands. Only by siding with the Germans did the patriotic Latvians have a chance to free Latvia, and then yes, absolutely turn your eyes to the Germans and say thank you, now get the fuck out.

    This was the attitude of many, many millions of Russians and Poles and Cossacks and Norwegians so many others that fought on the side of Germany. Not because they liked Germany occupying their lands. They didn’t. They hated that. Of course they did. But the Nazis, for all of their arrogance and hubris and imperiousness, at least didn’t seem to want to rape and enslave and then slaughter every last one of them. If you look at Vichy France, it almost looks pleasant, at least compared to today!

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  148. @Latvian woman
    "I’m sure that appealed to a lot of young men, just as it appeals to the men of ISIS."

    How do you know this? Is that what appeals to many young American men?

    You know what is the real deal, Rurik? The real deal, real manhood, is going into the forest at the end of the war, when everything has been decided (mostly against you), staying there for years and fighting a guerilla war from there.

    How do you know this? Is that what appeals to many young American men?

    I guess you’re implying that because I said there are men out there, (like the ones in ISIS) that are sub-human rapists at heart, that because I’m the one that made that observation, and because I’m a man too! Well that Ipso facto that must meant that I too! am a sniveling, craven rapist at heart as well!!

    charming LW

    not

    The real deal, real manhood, is going into the forest…

    so now you’re telling me what a real man is?

    you rather seem on the brink at this point LW

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  149. No, Rurik, you wrote something that sounded like Eastern European men were just waiting to go on some rapey rampage, which is a ridiculous accusation. It’s nothing personal about you, I just don’t like lies spread about my people.

    Rurik, look, you don’t have to teach me about the history. Not only have I read many accounts about the occupations, but I have actually met with people who participated and spoken to them and their descendants countless times over the years. We don’t acknowledge either of the occupiers as anything even near positive.

    In the forests, as anti Soviet guerillas, you did not “live like an animal”. Yes, people’s lives were short (I think about two weeks on average), but they had pretty nice little bunkers, one bunker hid many civilians and had a little chapel. Communications, etc. There were also rather serious skirmishes / battles. So don’t ever say to me that the Forest brothers lived “like animals”. When American men are able to defy a much bigger / stronger force as partisans for years, then we will talk.

    Why do you postulate that the Norwegians who fought in the Wehrmacht / SS division Nord “disliked” Germans? Norway, unlike Latvia, had a REAL Nazi government – the Nasjonal Samling, it was in charge of Norway for whole 4 years, led by an ethnic Norwegian. This is much more serious yet everyone screams about how terrible E.Europeans are and how they collaborated.

    Look, I don’t want to argue with you anymore, there is no point. You are hostile to E.Europeans and don’t understand their history. We can probably agree on other issues like immigration, etc.

    Let’s just hope things don’t continue for the worse in Donbass. For the horrors to end. It is a terrible tragedy.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    No, Rurik, you wrote something that sounded like Eastern European men were just waiting to go on some rapey rampage, which is a ridiculous accusation. It’s nothing personal about you, I just don’t like lies spread about my people.
     
    no I didn't

    I wrote that the Red Army acted like notorious rapists, indiscriminately raping everything from elderly women to little children. Often raping mothers in front of their children and children in front of their mothers, and frequently putting a bullet in them afterwards- or far worse.

    How many of these men were Eastern European vs. Asiatic or Russians, I don't really know. But the historical facts are the historical facts.

    I've also wrote that many millions of honorable, indeed heroic Eastern European (and others) against these throngs of Stalin's orcs.

    but because of the idiotic, cartoon narrative that we've all been marinating in for the last 70 yrs. says any man who donned the German uniform during those days was a rabid Nazi and genocidal murderer of Jews who wanted to gas Jewish children and kill everyone who didn't have blonde hair and kill all the Christians and burn all the churches and tossed Belgian babies into bayonets.. oops, that was one of the lies they (treacherous, genocidal allies) told about Germany in the first WW madness. I guess I can't keep track of their lies. Especially when I grew up with them and still hear them told virtually every single day.

    So no, LW, I wasn't saying or implying that Eastern European men wanted to rape and savage women. And the ones I personally honor are the ones that fought against the Soviets. Because they, like me, and most men of honor do not like invaders coming in and raping their women and putting a boot on the throats of their people. It was Stalin's Red Army that did that to Latvia, and the Germans came after; "liberating" (temporarily) those Eastern Europeans from the Fiend.

    But then, with the help of the Zio-West, the Red Army rapists were victorious, so there are monuments to them all over Eastern Europe, along with the vicious lie and historically inaccurate narrative that is was they who were the liberators.

    Nothing could be further from the truth, unless you were/are a Jewish supremacist who demanded domination of those lands then, and today. Then yes, sure, the Nazis were the bad guys and Stalin was the "liberator".

    And no, I'm not trying to malign Jews, just the ones like Kaganovich/Kagan, who were/are the bane of Eastern Europe (and humanity) have been now for a long, long time

    Many of the men of Latvia fought to the death to kill these demons in human form. Do you honor their memory? Or do you dishonor them and their sacrifice by smearing them as fascists and spiting on their graves because you accept the cartoon narrative rammed down Western civilization's throat (by Zionist Jews) than any sympathy for any German, or those who fought with them = equals wanting to push little Jewish girls into ovens?

    We don’t acknowledge either of the occupiers as anything even near positive.
     
    no doubt

    being under occupation sucks, no matter what

    So don’t ever say to me that the Forest brothers lived “like animals”. When American men are able to defy a much bigger / stronger force as partisans for years, then we will talk
     
    do you think for one second that I'm sitting over here beating my chest over American men's bravery or macho-style toughness?

    oh fuck no

    Many American men fought honorably during those and other wars (my dad among them). But many of them were sub-human savages and rapists too. Just like today in the Middle East.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDQGyGQ0w-U

    - that is the kind of man I'm talking about who would join an army to rape the women and children of the vanquished. And they aren't just Asians or Mongols or Russians or Europeans.. they're Americans too. We have no monopoly on honor or moral rectitude. Or **** no!

    Don't even get me started. The actions of the US at Yalta disgust me viscerally. The way the occupation soldiers treated the women of Germany was nothing to be proud of. Maybe they didn't rape them wholesale, but they didn't mind trading starving mothers with starving children food for favors.

    Why do you postulate that the Norwegians who fought in the Wehrmacht / SS division Nord “disliked” Germans?
     
    like I said.. nobody likes being occupied

    led by an ethnic Norwegian
     
    and his very name has come to mean a puppet of an occupation regime

    Norwegians hated the Germans and living under German occupation. Believe me! They absolutely hated the way the Germans fraternized with their young women, and often the resistance would kill these arrogant Germans, and when they did, the Nazis would respond with barbaric and murderous disproportionate response, and line up villagers and have them shot en masse.

    But the reason some Norwegians held their breath and sided with the (hated) Nazis was because they understood all too well the much worse threat that the Jewish communists were, if ever they were to dominate Norway. As we see today in Sweden, they were right.

    You are hostile to E.Europeans
     
    that's a slander and a smear and pure bullshit

    what you seem to be willing to do is use ad hominems and smears and hyperbole in lieu of a cogent argument. I don't necessarily think this is because you're a dishonorable person, but rather you simply don't like having some of your more cherished (if erroneous) narratives that you've marinated in so long that they're become part of your psyche - challenged.

    Let’s just hope things don’t continue for the worse in Donbass. For the horrors to end. It is a terrible tragedy.
     
    on this, Latvian woman, we totally agree ;)
  150. I wouldn’t dare speculate about any connections to Syria. The mother and little Kirochka (the woman in the grass) were killed in July, 2014. Russia only started the intervention in Syria in 2015.

    The Ukrainian armed forces that are responsible for their death, as they were fighting the opolchenye but the civilians were not evacuated (in fact, the women were getting ready to evacuate). As a mother myself, I have been deeply inundated by the story of Christina and Kirochka, her mother and grandmother. As well as many other horrifying stories. I heard that at least two civilians are still being killed each day in the East (don’t know if it is true, comes from a report by Russian journalist). Let’s pray that a political solution is found.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Russia only started the intervention in Syria in 2015.
     
    Putin/Russia opposed the destabilization from day one.

    you don't go against the agenda of the Fiend and remain unscathed

    As Putin knows, and Gadhafi found out, and Milosevic and Saddam and Assad and Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange and Snowden, or the Palestinians or the Serbians, and the other millions upon millions of innocent victims just like that mother and her child

    all dead or targeted because they or their governments went against the Zio-agenda of the total domination of this planet by the world's worst psychopaths that have insinuated themselves into positions of power in the West. Especially DC, NY/Tel Aviv, London and Paris.

    I don't point this out to be abrasive or provocative. I point it out because if we can't find a way to wrest control of our governments and media (and our very lives and futures of our children) away from this demonic Fiend, (and end the Fed), then all of this is going to keep getting worse and much, much worse. And the 21st century will begin to resemble the last one, where the Fiend surly had its way. Only this time with drones and TOTAL surveillance and other methods of power run amok that would make Orwell groan and Stalin drool.

    Let’s pray that a political solution is found.
     
    I'm with you on that!
  151. @Latvian woman
    No, Rurik, you wrote something that sounded like Eastern European men were just waiting to go on some rapey rampage, which is a ridiculous accusation. It's nothing personal about you, I just don't like lies spread about my people.

    Rurik, look, you don't have to teach me about the history. Not only have I read many accounts about the occupations, but I have actually met with people who participated and spoken to them and their descendants countless times over the years. We don't acknowledge either of the occupiers as anything even near positive.

    In the forests, as anti Soviet guerillas, you did not "live like an animal". Yes, people's lives were short (I think about two weeks on average), but they had pretty nice little bunkers, one bunker hid many civilians and had a little chapel. Communications, etc. There were also rather serious skirmishes / battles. So don't ever say to me that the Forest brothers lived "like animals". When American men are able to defy a much bigger / stronger force as partisans for years, then we will talk.

    Why do you postulate that the Norwegians who fought in the Wehrmacht / SS division Nord "disliked" Germans? Norway, unlike Latvia, had a REAL Nazi government - the Nasjonal Samling, it was in charge of Norway for whole 4 years, led by an ethnic Norwegian. This is much more serious yet everyone screams about how terrible E.Europeans are and how they collaborated.

    Look, I don't want to argue with you anymore, there is no point. You are hostile to E.Europeans and don't understand their history. We can probably agree on other issues like immigration, etc.

    Let's just hope things don't continue for the worse in Donbass. For the horrors to end. It is a terrible tragedy.

    No, Rurik, you wrote something that sounded like Eastern European men were just waiting to go on some rapey rampage, which is a ridiculous accusation. It’s nothing personal about you, I just don’t like lies spread about my people.

    no I didn’t

    I wrote that the Red Army acted like notorious rapists, indiscriminately raping everything from elderly women to little children. Often raping mothers in front of their children and children in front of their mothers, and frequently putting a bullet in them afterwards- or far worse.

    How many of these men were Eastern European vs. Asiatic or Russians, I don’t really know. But the historical facts are the historical facts.

    I’ve also wrote that many millions of honorable, indeed heroic Eastern European (and others) against these throngs of Stalin’s orcs.

    but because of the idiotic, cartoon narrative that we’ve all been marinating in for the last 70 yrs. says any man who donned the German uniform during those days was a rabid Nazi and genocidal murderer of Jews who wanted to gas Jewish children and kill everyone who didn’t have blonde hair and kill all the Christians and burn all the churches and tossed Belgian babies into bayonets.. oops, that was one of the lies they (treacherous, genocidal allies) told about Germany in the first WW madness. I guess I can’t keep track of their lies. Especially when I grew up with them and still hear them told virtually every single day.

    So no, LW, I wasn’t saying or implying that Eastern European men wanted to rape and savage women. And the ones I personally honor are the ones that fought against the Soviets. Because they, like me, and most men of honor do not like invaders coming in and raping their women and putting a boot on the throats of their people. It was Stalin’s Red Army that did that to Latvia, and the Germans came after; “liberating” (temporarily) those Eastern Europeans from the Fiend.

    But then, with the help of the Zio-West, the Red Army rapists were victorious, so there are monuments to them all over Eastern Europe, along with the vicious lie and historically inaccurate narrative that is was they who were the liberators.

    Nothing could be further from the truth, unless you were/are a Jewish supremacist who demanded domination of those lands then, and today. Then yes, sure, the Nazis were the bad guys and Stalin was the “liberator”.

    And no, I’m not trying to malign Jews, just the ones like Kaganovich/Kagan, who were/are the bane of Eastern Europe (and humanity) have been now for a long, long time

    Many of the men of Latvia fought to the death to kill these demons in human form. Do you honor their memory? Or do you dishonor them and their sacrifice by smearing them as fascists and spiting on their graves because you accept the cartoon narrative rammed down Western civilization’s throat (by Zionist Jews) than any sympathy for any German, or those who fought with them = equals wanting to push little Jewish girls into ovens?

    We don’t acknowledge either of the occupiers as anything even near positive.

    no doubt

    being under occupation sucks, no matter what

    So don’t ever say to me that the Forest brothers lived “like animals”. When American men are able to defy a much bigger / stronger force as partisans for years, then we will talk

    do you think for one second that I’m sitting over here beating my chest over American men’s bravery or macho-style toughness?

    oh fuck no

    Many American men fought honorably during those and other wars (my dad among them). But many of them were sub-human savages and rapists too. Just like today in the Middle East.

    - that is the kind of man I’m talking about who would join an army to rape the women and children of the vanquished. And they aren’t just Asians or Mongols or Russians or Europeans.. they’re Americans too. We have no monopoly on honor or moral rectitude. Or **** no!

    Don’t even get me started. The actions of the US at Yalta disgust me viscerally. The way the occupation soldiers treated the women of Germany was nothing to be proud of. Maybe they didn’t rape them wholesale, but they didn’t mind trading starving mothers with starving children food for favors.

    Why do you postulate that the Norwegians who fought in the Wehrmacht / SS division Nord “disliked” Germans?

    like I said.. nobody likes being occupied

    led by an ethnic Norwegian

    and his very name has come to mean a puppet of an occupation regime

    Norwegians hated the Germans and living under German occupation. Believe me! They absolutely hated the way the Germans fraternized with their young women, and often the resistance would kill these arrogant Germans, and when they did, the Nazis would respond with barbaric and murderous disproportionate response, and line up villagers and have them shot en masse.

    But the reason some Norwegians held their breath and sided with the (hated) Nazis was because they understood all too well the much worse threat that the Jewish communists were, if ever they were to dominate Norway. As we see today in Sweden, they were right.

    You are hostile to E.Europeans

    that’s a slander and a smear and pure bullshit

    what you seem to be willing to do is use ad hominems and smears and hyperbole in lieu of a cogent argument. I don’t necessarily think this is because you’re a dishonorable person, but rather you simply don’t like having some of your more cherished (if erroneous) narratives that you’ve marinated in so long that they’re become part of your psyche – challenged.

    Let’s just hope things don’t continue for the worse in Donbass. For the horrors to end. It is a terrible tragedy.

    on this, Latvian woman, we totally agree ;)

    Read More
  152. @Latvian woman
    I wouldn't dare speculate about any connections to Syria. The mother and little Kirochka (the woman in the grass) were killed in July, 2014. Russia only started the intervention in Syria in 2015.

    The Ukrainian armed forces that are responsible for their death, as they were fighting the opolchenye but the civilians were not evacuated (in fact, the women were getting ready to evacuate). As a mother myself, I have been deeply inundated by the story of Christina and Kirochka, her mother and grandmother. As well as many other horrifying stories. I heard that at least two civilians are still being killed each day in the East (don't know if it is true, comes from a report by Russian journalist). Let's pray that a political solution is found.

    Russia only started the intervention in Syria in 2015.

    Putin/Russia opposed the destabilization from day one.

    you don’t go against the agenda of the Fiend and remain unscathed

    As Putin knows, and Gadhafi found out, and Milosevic and Saddam and Assad and Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange and Snowden, or the Palestinians or the Serbians, and the other millions upon millions of innocent victims just like that mother and her child

    all dead or targeted because they or their governments went against the Zio-agenda of the total domination of this planet by the world’s worst psychopaths that have insinuated themselves into positions of power in the West. Especially DC, NY/Tel Aviv, London and Paris.

    I don’t point this out to be abrasive or provocative. I point it out because if we can’t find a way to wrest control of our governments and media (and our very lives and futures of our children) away from this demonic Fiend, (and end the Fed), then all of this is going to keep getting worse and much, much worse. And the 21st century will begin to resemble the last one, where the Fiend surly had its way. Only this time with drones and TOTAL surveillance and other methods of power run amok that would make Orwell groan and Stalin drool.

    Let’s pray that a political solution is found.

    I’m with you on that!

    Read More
  153. Rurik, I apologize for coming on too hard and I didn’t mean that American soldiers are not honorable. Of course, most of them are. There has been too much military adventurism (with horrible consequences), but it’s not the servicemen who decide that.

    And, of course, I don’t believe in the cartoon narrative – nobody in the Baltics (with the exception of the Russian population but then they have their own perspective on it rightly so) believes the Western narrative on WW2 (or more precisely, they don’t agree with everything to the full extent the way it is stated now). I just believe that the sacrifice was too high. I feel like Germany stole our men (with major repercussions for the future). By the way, many of the Legionnaires became Forest brothers (resistance fighters) after the war (I think it is more valiant than to just be mobilized by the Germans, although I agree that many joined as a response to Soviet terror). I just don’t like this focus on the Legionnaires when there are so many other populations (including Russians with Gen. Vlasov) that don’t get scrutinized over this every year. I don’t think it is honorable, just or measured.

    Re: Norway, ofc, I know they resisted the Germans (gutta på skauen – the partisans), and I’ve actually been to a couple of their war museums, like the one in Trondheim, where they have pretty good exhibits about it. For instance, they have one exhibit with a recording of Kvisling’s voice playing and a sign next to it saying Sviker – Traitor (no name, just traitor, lol).

    But my point was that this was a REAL collaborationist government, unlike ours and yet we get all the slack. That is utter BS in my opinion. But I’m sure you agree.

    Re: Ukraine, unfortunately, it is a fratricide because they really dislike each other. They were going to have problems anyway, maybe not this severe, but Russia likes to push its neighbors around (see how it has been bullying Belarus lately, even though Belarus did everything right and tried to do exactly what Russia claims it wants – neutrality from its neighbors. Just proves that it is BS because Belarus was and IS neutral and they still hate on them). These are all objective problems. I’m not saying the “Zionists” wouldn’t use this to ignite conflict, but the problems are there, objectively, and need to be solved long term.

    And regarding, the Fed – I agree. End the Fed, end the fractional reserve banking system!

    I still love this epic rant:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0knzL-O8T4

    Read More
  154. @Latvian woman
    Rurik, I apologize for coming on too hard and I didn't mean that American soldiers are not honorable. Of course, most of them are. There has been too much military adventurism (with horrible consequences), but it's not the servicemen who decide that.

    And, of course, I don't believe in the cartoon narrative - nobody in the Baltics (with the exception of the Russian population but then they have their own perspective on it rightly so) believes the Western narrative on WW2 (or more precisely, they don't agree with everything to the full extent the way it is stated now). I just believe that the sacrifice was too high. I feel like Germany stole our men (with major repercussions for the future). By the way, many of the Legionnaires became Forest brothers (resistance fighters) after the war (I think it is more valiant than to just be mobilized by the Germans, although I agree that many joined as a response to Soviet terror). I just don't like this focus on the Legionnaires when there are so many other populations (including Russians with Gen. Vlasov) that don't get scrutinized over this every year. I don't think it is honorable, just or measured.

    Re: Norway, ofc, I know they resisted the Germans (gutta på skauen - the partisans), and I've actually been to a couple of their war museums, like the one in Trondheim, where they have pretty good exhibits about it. For instance, they have one exhibit with a recording of Kvisling's voice playing and a sign next to it saying Sviker - Traitor (no name, just traitor, lol).

    But my point was that this was a REAL collaborationist government, unlike ours and yet we get all the slack. That is utter BS in my opinion. But I'm sure you agree.

    Re: Ukraine, unfortunately, it is a fratricide because they really dislike each other. They were going to have problems anyway, maybe not this severe, but Russia likes to push its neighbors around (see how it has been bullying Belarus lately, even though Belarus did everything right and tried to do exactly what Russia claims it wants - neutrality from its neighbors. Just proves that it is BS because Belarus was and IS neutral and they still hate on them). These are all objective problems. I'm not saying the "Zionists" wouldn't use this to ignite conflict, but the problems are there, objectively, and need to be solved long term.

    And regarding, the Fed - I agree. End the Fed, end the fractional reserve banking system!

    I still love this epic rant:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0knzL-O8T4

    I love the rant!

    thanks

    Read More
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