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Today Defense Minster Shoigu announced measures which went far beyond what I had hoped for. Specifically, Shoigu has announced that Russia will

  1. Supply S-300 air defense systems (with a 250km range) to the Syrians in the next two weeks.
  2. Russia will deliver advanced automated air defense management systems which will *dramatically* increase the Syrian air defense capabilities and prevent future “friendly fire” incidents.
  3. Russia will use her electronic warfare capabilities to suppress satellite navigation, onboard radar systems and communications of warplanes attacking targets on Syrian territory in the regions over the waters of the Mediterranean Sea bordering with Syria.

This is a very flexible and elegant solution for the following reasons:

  1. It establishes a de facto air exclusion zone over Syria, but not a de jure one. Thus, the Russians will have the flexibility to decide on a nation by nation and aircraft by aircraft basis which aircraft should be suppressed/engaged and which ones to only track and monitor. This will give Russia a very powerful negotiating position with all the actors of this war.
  2. It goes without saying that while these new capabilities will be deployed in Syria in response to the Israeli actions, they will also dramatically boost the Syrian capabilities against any potential aggressors including the USA and US client states. The S-300s will make it possible for the Syrian to detect and even track the Israeli aircraft right after their take-off and while still in Israeli air space.
  3. While the Russians have not indicated which automated air defense management system they plan to deliver to Syria, it is likely that this is one which is typically used to control the engagement of S-300 and Buk air defense systems, the Poliana D-4. The delivery of this system will dramatically increase the air defense capabilities of the Russian task force in Syria making it much harder for Neocon à la Bolton to target Russian forces.

I have to admit that I am surprised by the magnitude and quality of this response. Clearly, the arrogance of the Israelis did not pay off and this time their usual chutzpah was met with a great deal of Russian anger (albeit carefully controlled anger). For Bibi Netanyahu, the Russian reaction is an absolute disaster because it undermines his entire policy towards Syria (and Lebanon and Iran). The Israeli strikes (over 200, of which they bothered to notify Russia in only about 10% of the cases) did not yield any tangible benefit for Israel, but has now fundamentally undermined Israel’s relationship with Russia. As I have said it many times, for all their self-serving propaganda about being so smart, the Israelis are actually pretty incompetent being blinded, as they are, by their quasi infinite arrogance.

However, please keep in mind that in warfare there is no such thing as a magical silver bullet. For one thing, the Israelis will still have the option of attacking targets in Syria (be it by using aircraft, or missiles, including sea based), but the difficulty of successfully executing such an attack will increase by an order of magnitude. The same also goes for the US/NATO/CENTOM/etc. One option would be to go for a saturation attack by using very large number of missiles since the Syrian and Russian capabilities are still limited by numbers: even in an ideal situation (excluding EW capabilities), that is even if the kill ratio of Russian missiles is 1:1, the Russians will only be able to shoot down as many enemy missiles as their supplies allow. The US+Israeli missiles supplies in the region are far bigger.

Second, both the US and Israelis have very sophisticated EW warfare capabilities and rest assured that they will use them if needed. Yes, the Russians are qualitatively ahead of other countries in this field, but one should never under-estimate the capabilities of the bad guys.

Third, the AngloZionists will now do one of three things: either pretend that they don’t care and basically accept the situation on the ground like they did in South Ossetia and Crimea, or try to negotiate some kind of deal with the Russians, or react with hysterical threats and provocation in the hope that the Russians will blink. While we can hope for option #1, we also have to realize that options #2 and #3 are far more likely. In other words, this is far from over.

ORDER IT NOW

Finally, this latest news conclusively debunks the notion that Putin is a doormat or sellout and that the Russians are either unable or unwilling to oppose the AngloZionists. All those who have accused Putin of being Israel’s shabboy goy are going to be busy removing eggs from their collective face. The fact that the Russians took their time to analyze what happened and prepare a response was not a symptom of their weakness, but of their responsible behavior in a most dangerous situation. Furthermore, the Russian response also shows that once national security issues are at stake, the Atlantic Integrationist 5th column still has to yield to the Eurasian Sovereignists. This, by itself, is a very good and reassuring development.

Full video of the announcement:

(Republished from The Vineyard of the Saker by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Israel, Russia, Syria 
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  1. I don’t know if this proves anything about Putin contrary to the weak image of himself he has convinced many of. I see the Russian DM at the podium not Putin!
    the question begs: who is responsible for this Putin..or has Putin been pushed into such a response by the nationalists?

    yes this is a fine smart Russian response but the point and question remains: are the Russians prepared to use their fine weapons. it is preparedness to use, to fight back, to attack if necessary, to fight tot the death and give as good or better than one gets.

    it is only when the enemy is convinced of that that they stop being in your face. if they are not they will push you into the very war you are trying to avoid…regardless of any superiority you might have. it is whether you are going to use it or not. the west behaves as if it is collectively convinced that the Russians will not fight back, no matter how far they are pushed

    therein is the real danger in the mix..an aggressive, heartless and cruel west convinced the Russians are weak and afraid of a real fight..not Georgia or South Ossetia …but against a real enemy

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  2. DanD says:

    It all needs to be backed up by deadly force if necessary. Russia should take the initiative now, while the opportunity is hot to take out the first aircraft even flirting with being a “threat.”
    To back down now, they will have a far harder time in regaining the upper hand over Israel.
    They now have the upper hand and it ought be a cold, deadly iron one.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  3. I don’t know if this proves anything about Putin contrary to the weak image of himself he has convinced many of. I see the Russian DM at the podium not Putin!

    the question begs: who is responsible for this Putin..or has Putin been pushed into such a response by the nationalists?

    yes this is a fine smart Russian response but the point and question remains: are the Russians prepared to use their fine weapons.?

    it is preparedness to use the weapons, to fight back, to attack if necessary, to fight to the death and give as good or better than one gets. this plus a strong , sane and sophisticated practical attitude in dealing with the west routinely

    it is only when the enemy is convinced of that you will fight..that they will stop being in your face. if they are not so convinced they will push you into the very war you are trying to avoid…regardless of any superiority you might have.

    the west behaves as if it is collectively convinced that the Russians will not fight back, no matter how far they are pushed

    therein is the real danger in the mix..an aggressive, heartless and cruel west convinced the Russians are weak and afraid of a real fight..not Georgia or South Ossetia …but against a real enemy

  4. m___ says:

    Indiscriminately, the “players” seem to be doing little more then harassing. Idlib is still a hanging issue. Iran got some of the flow-off this same week.

    In all, public communication to us, the deplorables means zil. A proven, not in the least in the “Syria conflict”, a rented arena.

    In Europe they had what is called the Hundred Year War. Napoleon was once pursued by Russia to his lair of Paris, …and incredibly the Russians turned around, no direct advantage to them taken. War seems to be obsolete, but for local fretting and nagging with no physical consequence for the decision makers. To maintain a constant state of attention span disorder to the masses. The goal, be it as long as can be. Medicine to second tier brains, even better when prepped by media.

    The way of a low-life video game. Have our magnanimous apes occupy leisure, not matter. As Tudors went hunting when there was no bashing of human prey in sight, to keep the spirits and skill.

    The way of predicting the next move is nothing much but sports betting. The real consequence is ecological wastelands and a justification of metabolically expensive “elites”.

  5. Beckow says:

    What is Russia’s strategy in Syria? I can see minor benefits of a naval base, friendly government and a perception that they are ‘winning’. But in the long run geography and demography will be more important. Syria is 70-80% Sunni, not a group well disposed towards Assad or Russia. It is also surrounded by stronger nations that will never be friendly.

    Russia is the weaker player in the escalating confrontation with the West (or China). They need to pick their battles in places where they have local dominance.

    Interestingly enough, a regional conflagration in the Middle East would be beneficial for Russia: it would undermine Western interest in stability, create secondary pain points for the West (migrants, debt defaults, ethnic discord), and would lead to higher energy prices. Maybe Russia’s interest was in making sure the Syria-Iraq-Iran-Hezbollah coalition is strong enough to put up a fight. And having that fight is the strategy. Chaos theory works both ways.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
    , @m___
    , @bro3886
  6. iffen says:

    Supply S-300 air defense systems (with a 250km range) to the Syrians in the next two weeks.

    Should allow them to shoot down even more Russian planes in the future.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  7. @Beckow

    “chaos theory works both ways”

    I love thinking like this..all possibilities can be considered.

    we have been imputing a great benign to Putin all the time. and so many including me called him wimp. but is he really a wimp or benign?

    Putin would have to be as devilish as the Anglo/Zionists to be playing a ‘reverse. chaos’ game. but Syria indeed has been unnecessarily drawn out by my calculation…and the fact that at least 200 Israeli sorties took place and Putin did not raise a finger..actually developed a ‘Deconflicting Deal that permitted the Israelis to do just that, without retaliation..limiting the Syrian response as only now better addressed by shipping them S – 300

    we have also seen Putins supporters the same way including our Saker here. but they don’t have to be begin at all. no doubt they have their own agendas..Saker, Martyanov etc

    what could it be! the Saker after all has chosen to live in the USA …the great Satan

    but I do configure that ww3 is not avoidable. I don’t see how it can be avoided. the west will lose. the west has only one alternative, and that is to give up their empire, accept multi-polarity, retreat and focus on nationalist development

    but the end of the empire, retreat from the parasitism of central banking the planet to poverty and bankruptcy..or being forced into such retirement… surely brings nationalist social revolution closer, indeed would lead to it..meaning the end of capitalism and the elites as we now know them, have known them forever it seems

    peace and multipolarity in the world is revolutionary, for the multipolarity that Russia is fighting for means social revolution shortly. there is the advanced technological aspect that just wont quit.

    we must effect and use technology or we will decline into incompetence. but advanced technology in the hands of the capitalists is death for working classes. advanced technology in the hands of, and the control of workers is freedom and human survival…and the end of oligarchy

    the oligarchy can only blow it..their only remaining option and they may just do that. Is Putin an oligarch in disguise?

    interesting

  8. peterAUS says:
    @Ben Sampson

    Pretty much.

    My take: all this new Russian move is just public perception management. WHEN push comes to show the regime in Kremlin will blink, again, and, ahm, “accommodate”.

    Having said that, there WILL come a point when the regime in Kremlin will respond in kind. I have a feeling the West won’t see it coming so when it comes it will create a …..say….healthy climate for overreactions and mistakes.
    M.A.D.
    End.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  9. yawwnnn. Wake me up when

    the first S-300 explodes a Zionist deathbird and kills the pilot. Otherwise,

    it’s just more hot air from Moskva. BTW,

    this is the same Putin who just backed down from liquidating Isramerica’s pet Sunni terrorists in Idlib.

    • Replies: @m___
    , @Realist
    , @Shahna
  10. KenH says:

    This is a good start. Much better than whining about violations of international law which the Israelis and Jewish occupation government of America just uncontrollably laugh at.

    This sounds like an unofficial no fly zone. I expect Israel or (((America))) to test Russia’s newfound resolve, so they have to be willing to actually use these weapons if the Israelis or (((Americans))) transgress further.

  11. m___ says:
    @Beckow

    Chaos theory works both ways.

    Agree.

  12. m___ says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    more hot air from Moskva

    Agree. The article addresses the Euro pensioners of the working class in the South of Spain over winter like crowds. Public communication, commenting on public communication means zil. Waist of ink.

    • Replies: @m___
  13. m___ says:
    @m___

    Waist

    Replace with “Waste”.

  14. It’s about damned time.

  15. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    My take: all this new Russian move is just public perception management. WHEN push comes to show the regime in Kremlin will blink, again, and, ahm, “accommodate”.

    Disagree.
    I think that the facts suggest that Putin’s war council has come to a hard decision, and that he’s either been persuaded, or overruled.

    What we know is:
    - Putin undercut Shoigu’s original statement blaming IL, then
    - the Israelis arrived and talked crap, then
    - Shoigu publicly went beyond his original statement and announces measures that clearly refute Putin’s “chain of tragic accidental circumstances”.
    - Putin remains silent (as of this writing).

    That sequence indicates a sea change has occurred in the political situation inside the Kremlin. The tea leaves say there’s been a domestic dispute between the politicians and the security apparatus, and the security apparatus prevailed. I wouldn’t be surprised (though we’ll never know) that resignations were threatened, but that it wasn’t the President’s office making the announcement says a tectonic shift is in either in process, or complete.

    If that’s so, the Russians will start living up to their bogeyman reputation, and the West may soon be pining for the good ol’ days when Putin held the Russian military in check.

    Unfortunately, I agree with:

    …the West won’t see it coming so when it comes it will create a …..say….healthy climate for overreactions and mistakes.

    Yeah, NATO’s Mistakes Я Us, Keystone Kops SOPs and MOs are a worry. One can only hope that the Russians will pull off another Crimea, leaving NATO gobsmacked in zugzwang. The stakes are an order of magnitude higher now and the fact that NATO may not even know its in zugzwang is a very dangerous combination.

    I’d love to see S-300s start popping up in Lebanon. That would twist FUKUSIL’s shorts real tight.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Shahna
  16. hunor says:

    The Russian military leadership is becoming a biggest joke in the history of
    warfare. They are wasting resources trying to scare away a clearly determined foe.
    Only a brutal destruction of the illegal intruders will earn respect from the enemy.
    As of now they are just laughing and plotting they next move. Only a brutal
    shock can awaken the maniac from an illusion that they can always get away with
    they criminal behavior. What is the Russian word for ” SPINE ” ?

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Corvinus
    , @Per/Norway
  17. peterAUS says:
    @Erebus

    I think that the facts suggest that Putin’s war council has come to a hard decision, and that he’s either been persuaded, or overruled.

    Only one way to find out. Let’s wait and see. Won’t take long I think. Say, we continue this conversation in, what, three months from now. Around Christmas/New Year.

    One can only hope that the Russians will pull off another Crimea, leaving NATO gobsmacked in zugzwang. The stakes are an order of magnitude higher now and the fact that NATO may not even know its in zugzwang is a very dangerous combination.

    That’s the next level which, probably, won’t happen so soon. Say…..two years from now. More likely 3 to 5.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Erebus
  18. Puffin says:

    “I think that the facts suggest that Putin’s war council has come to a hard decision, and that he’s either been persuaded, or overruled.” Erebus is undoubtedly spot on. There have been credible reports for a long time that the Russian airforce have been keen to teach the Israelis a lesson for some time. Putin – contrary to western propaganda – has always been cautious and errs on the side of diplomacy. This is not the same as weakness as when push really comes to shove, he has not backed down – as with Crimea. However, I have no doubt that Shoigu and the other top brass were totally outraged by the Israeli action followed by their chutzpah in not even admitting to a ‘mistake’. Putin has understandably backed down. I have no idea how this will develop. The arrogance and sheer stupidity of the American deep state – and its subservience to the most reckless elements of the Zio-lobby – is almost boundless. Those of us who are ‘awake’ know that they are capable of blundering into a world war. Putin wants to avoid this, but not at all costs. It will undoubtedly be necessary to shoot down at least one Israeli aircraft. After that the ball will be in the western court. We will all have our small part to play.

  19. Realist says:

    Russia Will Establish an Unofficial No-Fly Zone Over Syria

    That’s nutless, this allows Putin to ignore flagrant aircraft incursions into Syrian air space, as he is currently doing.

    The no fly declaration should read: All uninvited aircraft in Syrian air space will be destroyed.
    Anything less is cowardly.

  20. Realist says:
    @hunor

    What is the Russian word for ” SPINE ” ?

    позвоночник

  21. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    Only one way to find out. Let’s wait and see.

    Not much more us armchair strategists can do.

    In contrast to my more alarming “analysis”, a couple of pundits have suggested that Putin’s silence is a tactical manoeuvre. He’s stepping into the background so he doesn’t lose his capacity to compromise and negotiate. IOW, good cop – bad cop. They may be right.

    That’s the next level which, probably, won’t happen so soon. Say…..two years from now. More likely 3 to 5.

    I think it’s coming as soon as the West tries another poke at the bear.

  22. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    Forgot to add this link which supports my original post. From John Helmer:

    On Monday morning, following an unprecedented Sunday briefing at the Defence Ministry, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu announced measures which Putin has repeatedly dismissed over many years. The new Russian war policy puts a stop to Putin’s assurances to the US, the European NATO powers and Israel that he was resisting the recommendations of his General Staff. Putin’s resistance ended on Monday morning. Shoigu and the Stavka ended it.

    http://johnhelmer.net/putin-corrects-mistakes-by-biting-his-tongue-on-telephone-with-assad-and-netanyahu/

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  23. AWM says:

    “Russia Will Establish an Unofficial No-Fly Zone Over Syria”

    Yeah, right.
    I imagine western aviators are salivating at this “deployment” just like the NFL cornerbacks that can’t wait for Colin Kaepernick to sign with some NFL team.

  24. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    I don’t know what is what anymore.

  25. c matt says:

    Waiting on Boltonyahu’s response:

    “How dare the Russians take aggressive action defending themselves from our attacks!”

    • LOL: Digital Samizdat
  26. Corvinus says:
    @DanD

    “It all needs to be backed up by deadly force if necessary.”

    Exactly. Wake up the Russian men from their vodka swilling induced haze and strap them up for all out war. Take out Israel, then go after the U.S. The Russian measures are just a bandage on gushing wound. Why is Putin being such a panzy here?

    As The Saker says, they are the “bad guys”.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  27. Corvinus says:
    @hunor

    “Only a brutal destruction of the illegal intruders will earn respect from the enemy.”

    So, Rambo, when are you coming on stage to lead this charge?

    • Replies: @hunor
  28. hunor says: • Website

    The Russian military is a greatest fighting force on the world stage , but being lead by don qiote / Putin / and Sancho panza / shoigu/ doesn’t have a bright future.

  29. bro3886 says:
    @Beckow

    Basically Putin is the George W. Bush of Russia. These foriegn adventures are for the yahoos back home, to make them forget they have an economy smaller than Canada’s. Bush’s wars were to make the yahoos here forget that the Republicans have no intention of doing anything for them if they’re not billionaires.

    https://i.rmbl.ws/s8/2/F/Y/A/P/FYAPa.caa.1.mp4?b=0&u=bt1g

  30. hunor says:
    @Corvinus

    Rambo only exist on the movie screen , it is not actuality.
    Actuality is your little confused mind being exceptional.
    May your Moses bless you with eternal supply of matzes balls.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  31. yurivku says:

    How stupid of Saker not to understand that all this could and should be done long before that.
    Many lives of Russians and Syrians could be saved.
    Real experts like Mr. Roberts understand that (

    http://www.unz.com/proberts/is-russia-being-betrayed-by-its-own-intelligensia/

    ), me, having think a little also do, everybody does.
    But not The Saker.
    He’s happy that it happened at last. Actually it had not, there is a time to change mind as always left…

  32. Mike-SMO says:

    The Saker should go back to his “White Russians” on that Florida beach. His lost a century ago and aren’t doing any better this time around.

    S300 Systems were “The Thing” decades ago. I suspect that the modern Russians and the Yahudi have the details and locations all worked out.

    Just guessing from deep in the “Red Lands”, but that “accidental” IL-20 strike was really a warning/threat from Hezbollah to Putin, “Stop playing nice with the US/EU/Israel/A-Rabbs/Kurds/Alawites or else”. Similarly for the “False Flag” hit on the IRG parade to the “Bearded Ladies”. I’ll bet that the parade job didn’t involve a single Jew.

    Stock up on pop-corn and Tequilla. Next year it will be a garbage collection and street sweeping jihad.

    Watch out for the ‘Skeeters in Florida. They are blood-thirsty savages.

  33. Let me remind you the basic reality. Russians are a new at this game, US has far more experience.
    Some mistakes are unavoidable. For US it is at least partly a game. For Russians it is a fight to the death.
    Implication from this conflict has an enormous influence on Russian arms sector.

  34. @Corvinus

    We would be living in the past, to a degree, to persist with the hackneyed Russian vodka jokes. There’s still truth to it, but apparently much much less than before.

    Moreover, there may be proportionally more Americans hooked on opiates and alcohol than Russians.

    Hello pot, meet kettle.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  35. Corvinus says:
    @hunor

    Exactly what I thought. Talk tough, but when push comes to shove, run away from the fracas.

  36. Corvinus says:
    @RadicalCenter

    “We would be living in the past, to a degree, to persist with the hackneyed Russian vodka jokes. There’s still truth to it, but apparently much much less than before.”

    Not past, but present, with truth to boot. Alcohol consumption in Russia remains among the highest in the world. Russian historian and dissident Zhores Medvedev argued in 1996, which has continued to this day, that “This ‘opium for the masses’ [vodka] perhaps explains how Russian state property could be redistributed and state enterprises transferred into private ownership so rapidly without invoking any serious social unrest.” Certainly Putin and his cronies have put forth several new laws regulating the Russian market of hard liquor, but that dampens the spirit (ha) of individuals who believe measures should be undertaken to combat alcoholism through education and social programs.

    “Moreover, there may be proportionally more Americans hooked on opiates and alcohol than Russians.”

    The Russian response–quit cold turkey.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2017/1128/Russian-answer-to-opioid-epidemic-Cold-turkey

  37. Shahna says:
    @Erebus

    - Shoigu publicly went beyond his original statement and announces measures that clearly refute Putin’s “chain of tragic accidental circumstances”.

    The MOD put out 2 briefings, one with the pretty red and blue flight paths and the other with the S-400 data.

    Both briefings described : a “chain of tragic accidental circumstances.”
    According to them, there was criminal negligence, over-enthusiastic over-reaction … but no intent to shoot the plane down. IOW., a “chain of tragic accidental circumstances.”

    “Everyone will notice.”
    That one still makes me grin everytime I read it – I think they’re still trying to wrap their heads around it – “Everyone will notice.” So far the reaction has been John Bolton saying “an escalation” and the best ever … “please reconsider.” Does that even sound like Bolton?

    I don’t know about internal shenanigans but Putin is not a western politician – he has no need to grandstand for us. Like Trump, or May, or Macron…. He also speaks very precisely. Unlike Trump, or May, or Macron…

  38. Erebus says:

    The MOD put out 2 briefings, one with the pretty red and blue flight paths and the other with the S-400 data.

    Indeed, the MOD put out 2 briefings, but your quote (of myself) refers to Shoigu’s announcement. The briefings were done by Konashenkov.

    Both briefings described : a “chain of tragic accidental circumstances.”

    That quote is from Putin’s statement following Shoigu’s original, which blamed the IAF. I’m not aware of it showing up in Konashenkov’s briefings. Quite the contrary.

    He also speaks very precisely. Unlike Trump, or May, or Macron…

    Not when he used the phrase “chain of tragic accidental circumstances.”. Judging by Shoigu’s and Konashenkov’s words, he was being disingenuous and I think he got called on it by the MOD.

    • Replies: @Shahna
  39. Shahna says:
    @Erebus

    Perhaps you should judge Putin on his own terms and not yours.
    Putin called the downing a series of tragic accidents – the MOD proved exactly that.
    A series of tragic accidents caused by Israeli arrogance, hubris and lies.

    Rather clever on the Russians part to put the MOD at the forefront of this and not the president – the leaders of other nations don’t have hotlines to the Russian MOD.

    • Replies: @aleksandar
    , @Erebus
  40. @Shahna

    Putin said just after ” A series of tragic accidents ” that he completely backed Shoigu declaration.
    But all armchairs warriors other there are so stupids that they can’t read more than 3 or 4 words at the same time.
    This idea to put MOD in the forefront has most to do with a clear will and sign to show that Russia considered that as a military attack and so, russia answer wil be military, and orders were already given.
    ” Netanyahu, beware, it’s the russain army now in charge “.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Shahna
  41. @hunor

    i believe this link explains how much smarter the Russians or as you call them “the biggest joke in the history of warfare” are than you.. http://www.stalkerzone.org/the-yalta-european-strategy-three-years-on-since-putins-geopolitical-checkmate/

    you warmongers never see past your noses and fanasies about big battles where brave heroes die defending his country and fellow soldier… the children living in war zones would be interested in hearing your theories about how glorious war is and how you want more children to suffer like them because you think it is a big adventure or whatever reason you want Putin to kill more people then he needs to.

    • Replies: @hunor
  42. Erebus says:
    @Shahna

    Putin called the downing a series of tragic accidents – the MOD proved exactly that.
    A series of tragic accidents caused by Israeli arrogance, hubris and lies.

    Huh?

    There was nothing “accidental” about the “lying” and/or “criminal negligence” that the MOD charged the Israelis with. In other words, the MOD proved the opposite of accidental.

    • Replies: @Shahna
  43. Erebus says:
    @aleksandar

    Putin said just after ” A series of tragic accidents ” that he completely backed Shoigu declaration.

    So, first he walked back Shoigu’s original accusation, then he walked back his walkback. Then Shoigu made his announcement that not only abrogates Putin’s “tragic accidents” but also abrogates several other of Putin’s longheld positions.

    What does your political calculus tell you about that?

    “Netanyahu, beware, it’s the russain army now in charge”.

    So it is, but my calculus also tells me there has to have been a sea change in the Kremlin for the military to have taken control of the Syrian theatre. I’m not talking about a coup. Rather, that the Kremlin now recognizes that politics/diplomacy have run their course in Syria (and not just in Syria), and that vis a vis FUKUSIL it can do no more until the Generals open the political/diplomatic field by force of arms.

    The Boltonyahoos call that “escalation”, and in a sense they’re right. The Kremlin has re-defined the field, and can no longer be counted on to turn to politics/diplomacy solutions to solve what are now military problems.

  44. hunor says: • Website
    @Per/Norway

    There is a brutal wishes war going on against Russia , and Russians are dying without fighting back.. All the hienas are there , with a most wicked bloodthirsty, slaveholder mentality. The French the British, the Americans, the Israelis and the jihadist . United in one purpose only spill Russian blood. My question is when is the Russian leadership finally form a boney hammer of the fist and fight back ???

  45. Shahna says:
    @aleksandar

    …. And who is the commander in chief of the Russian army?

  46. Shahna says:
    @Erebus

    If this did play out as the MOD says then it was an accident. Like the person who steps in front of a car and causes it to swerve and kill a child. The plane was not deliberately targeted.

    As for the Israeli jet ducking behind the plane to avoid the missile – I defy YOU to be sitting in a jet with a missile coming right at you – and not ducking behind any available bigger plane! That’s just get-out-the-way instinct. And the lies – well, that’s the Israelis for you. They didn’t have to lie, doing so is cowardly – and they aren’t putting up any proof to say they aren’t.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  47. Shahna says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    Putin who just backed down from liquidating Isramerica’s pet Sunni terrorists in Idlib.

    You think so? I don’t think so – I think Israel just handed him Idlib on a silver platter.
    … Granted, the platter was also decorated with 15 Russian heads.

  48. Erebus says:
    @Shahna

    That’s just get-out-the-way instinct.

    Umm, you don’t come into range of a missile system if you don’t have a reason to. So the Israelis stayed well out of range and released their missiles from standoff distances. “Standoff distance” means your weapon has longer range than the opposing weapons, so they had no reason to come closer until the IL20 offered them an opportunity to draw a missile on it.

    What the Russians are clearly implying is that the Israeli jet entered the S200′s range specifically to draw a missile on the IL20. IOW, a setup. That’s why it was no accident, and that’s why they’re pissed. I don’t know why you don’t get that point.

    • Replies: @Shahna
  49. peterAUS says:
    @Erebus

    An oversight of mine, haven’t read this article comment thread, and more importantly, stuff re that link.
    Happens in my line of (civilian) skillset/experience: effective retirement, with bouts of hectic activity out of blue. During the “bout” no time for anything else.

    That link presents some interesting reading. Nothing special, though, in my book.

    Again, just me, but I don’t care much for any announcement coming from the regime in Kremlin (and anything associated with Russian state). Any…..

    I’ll start paying attention to them when they actually do something.

    Again, let’s wait and see what happens in next, say, 3 months (period around New Year included).

  50. Shahna says:
    @Erebus

    Yes they imply it but don’t go so far as to say it.
    They’re pissed off because their people are dead and that surveillance plane was destroyed – and all for Israeli hubris and lies. … And they do seem to have turned those bitter Israeli lemons to sweet bubbly.

    Just a guess, but I reckon the US (+FUK) is now re-evaluating its determination to strike Syria if/when Syria moves in to clean out some Idlib debris: some time after the 10th perhaps.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  51. Erebus says:
    @Shahna

    Yes they imply it but don’t go so far as to say it.

    The MoD’s presentation wasn’t done to impress the likes of you & me. It was targeted to international political/military/diplomatic elites, where the implication(s) would have been as clear as a bell. To spell it out as blatantly as the likes of you & me might like, would be to speak so angrily and crudely as to lose the targeted audience.

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