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When I wrote my recent article “Deconstructing Islamophobia” I expected a rather outraged reaction from the usual circles, but I have to admit that the actual level of outrage and even pure rage really surprised me. In fact, I never realized that hatred for, and fear of, Islam had reached such a level, especially in the US. From time to time I write something which really rattles the cages of those who like their reality simple, black and white, and who have a profound aversion for analysis, nuance or any form of complexity. But I have to admit that the article on Islamophobia is probably the one which resulted in the most hysterical outbursts of a weird kind of impotent rage. I therefore want to revisit this topic and give the other side a chance to respond to some of the absolutely unavoidable questions which western Islamophobia at least should elicit in the thinking person. Here are a few questions to which I would love to hear some fact based or logically developed answers.

But first, let’s make a few key assumption purely for argument’s sake.

  1. Islam is a religion of violence, it was spread with violence and it condones violence, including for religious reasons. In fact, Islam encourages violence in its followers.
  2. Islam is a medieval and barbaric religion. It is completely incompatible with western values.
  3. Immigrants from Muslim countries represent a clear and present danger for western societies and if their number exceeds a certain percentage they can take over a western society and impose their religious values including Sharia law.

Now, I think that even the most rabid Alt-Righter is at least vaguely aware that Islam has several schools of jurisprudence and theological interpretation, even if, by our definition, these schools are all equally “bad”. Which brings me to my first question for my detractors:

The question of discrimination

From their own words, it appears that Islamophobes have come to the conclusion that all this talk of different “strains” of Islam is totally useless and potentially self-deceiving. The truth is, at least according to the Islamophobes, that all of Islam is evil and dangerous, maybe with some minimal variations here and there, but only on the margins. Okay, if I take the point of view of the Latin Papacy towards what they called the “Photian Schismatics” (aka Orthodox Christians), there are three “solutions” the Latins came up with to “solve” the Photian Schism:

  1. Convert 1/3rd of the Orthodox Christians
  2. Expel another 1/3rd of the Orthodox Christians
  3. Murder the remaining 1/3rd of the Orthodox Christians

Since the Latin Papists are probably the most advanced and experienced “genociders” (not sure if that is English or not) in history, let’s apply their wisdom to the “Islamic problem” and offer the same “solutions”:

  1. Convert 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
  2. Expel 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
  3. Murder 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims and, just to cover our bases
  4. any combination and ratio of the three solutions above

Yes, genocide, as a concept, was invented by the Papacy which was also the first to engage in it.

True, the leaders of the West never hated Islam as much as they hated Orthodoxy – hence their recurrent “ecumenical war coalitions” à la “Crimean War” or à la “NATO War Against the Serbian Nation”

So much for the so-called “Christian West”…

Now if that is our plan, then I suggest that discrimination between the various Muslim groups would be absolutely crucial. If you really and sincerely believe that you can convert, expel and/or murder 1.8 billion Muslims then I would like to also sell you a few bridges in prime locations on our beautiful planet, really. In fact, I would also offer to sell you the Moon, Mars and Venus for one cheap price since, truly, you apparently have no ability to think critically. Because, let’s be honest here, anybody with a minimal knowledge of history would immediately see that this plan is simply not doable, regardless of how much hatred one has for Islam and Muslims.

I submit that whether you hate Islam or not, the ability to discriminate between various “strands” of Islam (which is one of the things I have always advocated) is crucial irrespective of whether you think that Islam is a religion of peace or a religion of war.

So here is my first question: are you seriously advocating taking on and declaring your intention of aggressively dealing with a religion which has a total potential of 1.8 billion people closing ranks and resisting your aggression?

Next, comes the question of positive values

This is another basic and simple one. If you condemn Islam or even oppose it vs some western values, you should at least have a rough list of such western values which you want to defend and in the name of which you will oppose Islam in general and the potential actions of Muslim immigrants in the West. I mean, you cannot at the same time declare that Islam is “homophobic” AND declare that you are defending the values of the “Christian West”. Likewise, you cannot ban Sharia law for corporal punishment AND support torture in your own jails. Finally, you most definitely cannot accuse Islam of advocating the crushing of pluralism and free speech when you yourself use all the power of the state and the power of the corporations (which, in reality, own that state) to crush free speech and pluralism in your own country. If you prefer, you cannot oppose Islam BOTH in the name of Pope Pius XII AND Conchita Wurst.

So here is my next question: in the name of what, and with which values, do you propose to deal with Islam? what alternative model can you offer the Muslims which they might find as attractive alternative? What are your (so-called) “Western values”?

If, say, “family” is a western value, who do you think did more to destroy it, the French themselves with the rabidly anti-religion and anti-family 1789 Revolution or the Arab Muslim immigrants (which the French capitalists deliberately imported into France, even with their entire families!). For all the (partially true) accusations of homosexuality being present in some (true, but not all!!) Muslim countries, who do you really think does more to show “understanding” and “an open mind” about homosexuality (even going as far as allowing homosexuals to adopt children!) – western Christians or Muslims?

Think carefully!

Next, the question of the dangers of what I call “ignoring Bismark”.

Bismark once famously wrote that “politics is the art of the possible”. I fully agree and I submit that this also applies to how non-Muslims ought to shape their relationship with the Muslim world. Next is the issue of intention vs capability. I call that:

The question of the commensurability of goals and means

Again, that is a very simple one. Whatever you propose to do with Muslims and Islam – first you need to make sure that you have the tools needed to implement your plans. Let’s take a simple example: France. According to a research paper from the Pew Foundation as of mid-2016, there were 5.7 million Muslims in France (8.8% of the country’s population) and Islam is the 2nd religion in France after Latin Christianity. Also check out this graphic from the same article, as it gives you estimates of the number of Muslims living in Europe.

In reality, however, the real number of Christians in France is artificially bloated because, just as in Russia, these figures simply include those who identify themselves as “Christians”, including in the cultural sense, and who, in reality, are not practicing Christians at all. I believe that since the proportion of Muslims who take their religion seriously is much higher than in Christianity (including Orthodox Christianity) and so if we really could compare the figures of God-fearing and pious Muslims versus God-fearing and pious Christians then the first religion of France (and probably Russia) already is Islam and not Christianity.

Still, since I cannot substantiate this in any way, let’s stick to the official figures and allow me to ask a few basic question about France (but they are valid for most western countries).

When you propose to expel Muslims from France, are you seriously contemplating the deportation of almost 6 million people?

ORDER IT NOW

Did I hear you say “oh no, we will only deport two categories: illegal immigrants and religious extremists”. That is all fine and well, but let me ask you how many people currently living in France qualify under these criteria? And, no less importantly, how many Muslims are there in France who do NOT qualify under your criteria, but who WOULD vehemently oppose the deportation of their family members, friends, members of their cultural or religious communities? How many of these “good Muslims” will demand due process in each case? How many of these “good Muslims” will also collect funds to oppose Islamophobic policies and propaganda?

Because one thing is clear: if you want to deport only illegal immigrants and all religious extremists, then maybe you have a chance. But if you declare “Islam per se” as the threat, then all you are doing is uniting all Muslims to resist you and your hatred of their religion. Not very smart, to put it very gently.

Alternatively, when you propose to curtail the religious rights of French Muslims, what tools of the state do you plan to use to enforce their compliance? The special services (intelligence? counter-intelligence? counter-espionage? counter-terrorist?). The police forces? The armed forces?

As somebody who has personally dealt with exactly that question (how to deal with mass social explosions of the future based on past experiences) from the inside I can tell you that this was one of the tasks which was often discussed in (strictly confidential) meetings between military, internal security and police experts in all western countries, even those who would never admit it. Furthermore, western powers also engaged in numerous (very interesting) command-staff exercises in which the issue of how to deal with explosions of social unrest were also modeled, tested and evaluated. I cannot discuss the details of our findings, but I can tell you this: neither the intelligence community, nor the police, nor the military are the correct “tool” to deal with such issues. Why? Because typically the intel community is already busy with other issues and has neither the manpower nor the finance to start seriously monitoring millions of people, especially when many of those millions speak a different language and have a very tightly knit community.

Neither are police forces a solution. They are much better trained in law than security or military personnel, but they lack both the expertise and, literally, the firepower needed to deal with severe social unrest or, even less so, a full-scale insurrection.

As for the military, it has plenty of firepower, but it is trained to destroy enemy forces. If the 92% majority chooses to unleash its armed forces against an 8% minority that is called a civil war and, by the way, that is EXACTLY what happened in the Ukraine and the Donbass. Do you really want that for your country?

In theory it is really simple: ban halal killing of animals (but don’t touch kosher animal killing), ban halal butcher shops (but not kosher shops), ban Quranic schools (but don’t touch Ulpanim or Yeshivas), ban mosques (but not synagogues), ban hijabs (but not sheitels, shpitzels or yarmulke), etc. If asked about this, the simple reply is that Islam is a medieval religion which is a religion of violence and wars whereas Rabbinical Judaism (aka Pharisaic Talmudism) is a progressive religion of love and peace, that’s all. Heck, the so-called “Christian West” has now even officially adopted the so-called Noahide Laws which declare Christianity a form of idolatry! Last, but certainly not least, wage war on as many Muslim countries as possible and allow Israel to turn you into a voiceless colony, proud of its host status, at least for the Judaic parasite.

Reality is very different however.

First, being the Judaic’s/Zionists’ “bitch” usually makes you hated and despised everywhere, including in Israel, by the way. That also inevitably alienates a big chunk of your patriotically-inclined population. But let’s ignore all that. In fact, let’s forget about the Middle-East and let’s assume that 92% of the French people are totally united behind a plan to “de-Islamize France”. Now think it through and you will immediately see the problem.

Even if only 1M of the 5M Muslims in France actually resist, your combined security/police/military forces could not deal with that kind of resistance without a huge bloodbath which will ruin your country (again, this is exactly what the Nazi-occupied Ukraine tried after the Euromaidan coup!). Furthermore, civil wars tend to radicalize people. Thus a mass deportation of Muslim immigrants will inevitably generate a sense of outrage combined with a much revived sense of what the French call “communautarisme”: a type of identity politics centered on the clan, the tribe, the ethnicity. In other words, those kinds of policies will only serve to create more, not less, crazed jihadis! Is that really a good idea? Civil war with a simultaneous rise of extremism? How smart is it to advocate for this?

Besides, are you really sure that you got the right target?

The question of cause and effect

When I was a small kid I was taught that pre-1917 Russia was some kind of Russian Orthodox heaven on earth. Everybody was heroic, kind, brilliant, the Russian people loved the Czar and the Court, they even loved the aristocracy and the intelligentsia. In other words, Russia was happy and if it wasn’t for the evil Jews and the evil Germans, nothing at all would have happened in 1917. When you are 10, that kind of narrative makes sense. But not when you are an adult (at least one would hope so!).

Simply put: there is simply no way that the thesis that Jews and Germans destroyed Russia can be sustained; it is prima facie ridiculous! Empires don’t simply collapse because of some foreign agents, that is counter-factual. Besides, if you look at which Russian social class did the most to destroy Russia, it ain’t the Jews or the Germans, it is the Russian aristocracy, especially the (comparatively) new Petrine aristocracy. Simply put, Russia has been under various degrees of foreign occupation since 300 years now, from Peter I to Eltsin. And the only reason why the Bolsheviks could seize power so easily is that all the Bolsheviks overthrew was the terminally incompetent regime of Kerensky which itself only came to power by means of a (absolutely illegal and immoral) coup against Nicholas II organized by, you guessed it, the Russian aristocracy and intelligentsia! Bolshevik Jews overthrew a totally corrupt, oligarchic regime which was Masonic through and through and which was no less russophobic than the Bolsheviks themselves.

There is a moral, social, cultural, psychological and even spiritual equivalent to AIDS. This is also an immunity disorder, but rather than affecting our biological immune system, it affects our moral, social, cultural, psychological and even spiritual “immune systems”. Pre-1917 Russia was suffering from “spiritual AIDS” (that category includes all the others, at least in my terminology) and probably *any* foreign hostile agent could have taken over in 1917. History decided that the Russian monarchy would collapse under the treacherous actions of the Russian elites, and that Russian democracy would collapse under the (no less treacherous) actions of the Bolsheviks. But if these had not seized power, than some other group, any group, would have eventually seized power. The ugly truth is that pre-1917 Russia was already dying and except for a (sizable and therefore important) minority of Christians which chose death over apostasy, most Russians by 1917 were spiritually blinded (if that topic interests you, read Solzhenitsyn, especially, his “Red Wheel” saga or any book by Ivan Solonevich and, especially, his “The Grand Fraud of February” (assuming you read Russian or can find a translation). Memoirs of those who actually witnessed 1917 are also most interesting.

Bottom line is this: empires fall when they are weak and that fall always begins with a loss of identity.

Now, Alt-Righters & Co. blame others (Jews, Muslim, Blacks, immigrants, whatever) for what they perceive as a loss of identity for White westerners. They are both right and wrong. They ARE right when they observe a loss of identity of White Westerners, that is quite true, but they are naive to the extreme when they attribute it to “others” (whatever “others” happen to be blamed at that moment). The truth is that many factors have come together to de-Westernize the West. And yes, the West was mostly White. I find racial categories poorly defined, thus useless and even misleading. But even I won’t deny that Europe is a White continent. I just don’t think that color is what defines it, or makes it different from other parts of the world, but the notion that other races played a major other role in European history (other than that of victims of European imperialism, of course) is rather silly. Okay, the Arabs (if you want to think of them as Brown as opposed to White), did contribute a lot to the rediscovery of antiquity by a Europe which was mostly ignorant, but even that influence should not be exaggerated either. And yes, the Judaics were successful in infiltrating and subordinating the Vatican to their ideology, but most of that really only happened after WWII.

What Alt-Righters & Co. fail to realize is that most European borders are completely artificial, along with some of the main European countries (Germany and Italy for starters!). Furthermore, Europe always lived through wave after wave of immigrants (just like Russia, by the way), and none of them made Europe weaker. If we want to be really honest we would admit that those who did the most to destroy Europe were the clueless European ruling classes which committed collective suicide during WWI. Only then came the man who did even more than anybody else to destroy Europe, and he was a famous European nationalist: Adolf Hitler. In a way, Europe did with WWI what Russia did in February 1917 (suicide) and Europe did in WWII what the Bolsheviks did to Russia (rule of fanatic extremists). First came the clueless “democrats” and “liberals” and only THEN came the tough SOBs.

When I see the US today, or the EU, I see a civilization which committed suicide long before any immigrants, foreigners, heretics, or any other “other” came to use a opportunity which presented itself.

The real traitors to Russia are first and foremost Russians themselves (say the Russian aristocracy)

The real traitors to the United States are first and foremost Americans themselves (say the Dems and the Hillary & Biden gang of Neocons)

The real traitors to Europe are first and foremost Europeans themselves – say those who first bomb barrier nations to immigration, like Libya, and then whine when a tsunami of african immigrants crosses Libya and the Mediterranean to find a better life (by the way – these countries are in a shape Trump would refer to as “shithole” primarily – even if not entirely – courtesy of the collective West who turned these parts of the world into shitholes in the first place!).

I find it hilarious when Americans complain about Hispanic immigration. They don’t realize that these immigrants from Latin America are a real blessing: they are family oriented, hard working people who do not contribute to criminality at all (Ron Unz proved that a long time ago) and who are much more Christian than most Americans. If you really want to defend your “Western Civilization” then the first step might be to completely open the border with Mexico and declare that all Latin Americans are welcome to live in the US. And if the US is concerned about too many Latin American immigrants coming to the US, then the first thing to do to stop that trend is to stop Yankee imperialism in all its forms and finally give the countries of Latin America a chance to prosper in peace.

Instead, US ‘patriots’ want to keep their country Christian and White by reducing the amount of Hispanics currently living in the US. All I will say is this: be careful, very careful, for what you wish for!

So are you really so sure that Mexican or Salvadorian immigrants are such a big threat to the “western civilization”?

Is it not high time for what is left of the so-called “West” to decide once and for all what it stands for and what kind of immigrants it wants or not?!

ORDER IT NOW

My humble suggestion is this: define once and for all what your so-called western values really are, then have the courage to stand up for them, always, and you might find that Muslims or immigrants are really not a problem at all. Or keep hating the wrong people and witness the end of your civilization by suicide.

The last question: and what about those pesky and evil Russkies? What have they been up to recently?

Well, very much UNLIKE the West, the “New Russia” of Putin has made major efforts to forge an alliance with traditional Islam against the western-backed Takfiris! I cannot discuss it all here, but I covered this issue in my article “Russia and Islam, connecting the dots and discerning the future“. I will summarize it here by quoting just the key part of the article:

Russia is also a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) which brings together China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan , Russia , Tajikistan , Uzbekistan , India and Pakistan. Let’s look at the approximate number of Muslims in the SCO countries: China 40,000,000 , Kazakhstan 9,000,000, Kyrgyzstan 5,000,000, Russia 10,000,000, Tajikistan 6,000,000 , Uzbekistan 26,000,000, India 180,000,000, Pakistan 195,000,000. That’s a grand total of 471 million Muslims. Add to this figure the 75,000,000 Iranians which will join the SCO in the near future (bringing the grand total to 546,000,000) and you will see this stunning contrast: while the West has more or less declared war on 1.8 billion Muslims, Russia has quietly forged an alliance with just over half a billion Muslims! Russian nationalists (as opposed to Russian patriots) did try their best to infect Russia with her own brand of Islamophobia, but that movement was defeated by an absolutely uncompromising stance by Vladimir Putin himself who went as far as stating that: “I need to say that, as I have repeated many times before, from its beginning Russia had formed as a multiconfessional and multiethnic state. You are aware that we practice Eastern Christianity called Orthodoxy. And some theorists of religion say that Orthodoxy is in many ways closer to Islam than to Catholicism. I don’t want to evaluate how true this statement is, but in general the coexistence of these main religions was carried out in Russia for many centuries. Over the centuries we have developed a specific culture of interaction, that might be somewhat forgotten in the last few decades. We should now recall those, our national roots.”

By the way, this trend was also noted in the Alt-Right & Co. circles which then penned articles such as “Putin May Look Like an Ethno-Nationalist, But He’s Too Cozy With Russia’s Muslim Minority” I consider the entire Alt-Right movement a pure creation of the US Deep State and I consider most of what these folks claim to be counter-factual and illogical nonsense. But in this case, the author is *spot on* about Putin. He indeed is way too sophisticated to engage in ethno-nationalism. But what the author completely fails to realize are two basic facts:

  1. Russians are not, and have never been, ethno-nationalists
  2. Putin is a pure product of Russia’s history, he is not a fluke or an exception

By the way, there are also Muslims out there who broke free from the Neocon narrative (the Takfiri narrative IS a Neocon-promoted narrative) and who now seek an alliance with countries like Russia. The best known Islamic leader who openly advocates this is, of course, my dear friend Sheikh Imran Hosein. But he is not alone. In Russia Ramzan Kadyrov has embarked on the immense task of convincing his fellow-Muslims that Takfirism is not Islam and that Russia can be the ideal protector of true Islam. Why? Russia is unique in several ways:

  • Russians don’t fear Islam (even if they remember 12 wars against the Ottomans!)
  • Most officials of the Russian security services are either atheists, or agnostics or Orthodox Christians (they are thus much harder to infiltrate with crazed jihadis)
  • Most Russian Muslims are Sunni (Shia Muslims are the traditional #1 enemy of Takfiris, but this issue is more complicated in Sunni countries and communities).
  • The kind of Islam practiced by Russian Muslims is very traditional and conservative, which is very much “in tune” with the rest of the (mainly “culturally Orthodox”) Russian society.

I believe that mix to be unique to Russia (please do correct me if I am wrong!) and that unique historical mix means that the Sunni community of Russia is the best protected (by the “almighty FSB” amongst others) and at the same time the least likely to be seduced by Takfiri theories!

Ethno-nationalism at its best…

As for the outlet which posted that article, I would simply note that it is not a surprise for me to see such inanities posted by folks who run their donation campaigns with photos of Nazi soldiers…

In the past they censored my use of the word “Zionist”. Now this: True, genuine, ethno-nationalism at its best, I suppose…

Russians typically hate all of that, especially Nazism. No wonder when you consider the price Russia paid for crushing about 80% of Hitler’s forces (but not before the latter killed 27+ million Russians and declared us all to be “subhuman”).
***

Back to the real world now: the Kremlin is not naive about how much power and influence the AngloZionist Empire still has, especially over Takfiri terrorist groups. So next to this defense of traditional Islam, the Russians have also developed a tool to deal with BOTH influxes of illegal immigrants AND Takfiri terrorism: the Russian National Guard. In 2016 I wrote an article “Putin creates a Russian National Guard” in which I outlined the structure, function and purpose of the NGR (National Guard of Russia) and I won’t repeat it all here except to give you a few figures of what units/subunits were used to form this internal security force:

  • Troops of the Interior Ministry (about 170,000 soldiers)
  • Personnel from the Ministry of Emergency Situations
  • The OMON riot police forces (about 40,000 soldiers)
  • The SOBR rapid-reaction forces (about 5000+ soldiers)
  • The Special Designation Center of the Operational Reaction Forces and Aviation of the Ministry of Internal Affairs including the Special Forces units “Zubr”, “Rys’” and “Iastreb” (about 700+ operators)

In my 2016 article I added that “so we are talking of a total force of about 250,000 soldiers which will probably reach 300,000 in the near future”. In fact, the latest current figure is 340,000!

Simply put, that is a force which CAN deal with any refugee crisis and “lock” the Russian border, especially with the help of the superbly trained 170,000 Border Guards, bringing the total of highly trained professionals who can lock any segment of the Russian border to over HALF A MILLION (510,000 exactly)!

Just for perspective sake, the armed forces of France total only 302,700 personnel on active duty (including the Gendarmerie) backed by another 87,300 reservists and 17,000+ “deployed personnel” for a grand total of 407,000. And I won’t even go into the training, equipment, rules of engagement, etc. issues.

So on one hand we have the West, in free fall since at least 2001, unable to even close its borders, never-mind protecting them. This same West wants to be White again and while it really ditched any pretense of Christianity decades ago, it finds it expedient to expand its hatred from “just immigrants” to Muslims and Islam in general.

Russia, on the other hand, currently with the most powerful military on the planet, AND one of the very best and most effective internal security forces (the FSB and the equally formidable FSO ) still found it prudent to field a large and very powerful internal security force like the “Federal National Guard Troops Service of the Russian Federation” (full official name of the RNG).

Why is that? (that is also an important question!).

I will just mention in conclusion that Muslims form a large minority among Russian special forces, anti-terrorist forces, military police, etc. They are still often supervised by non-Muslims, but that is mostly for political reasons. If the non-Muslim Russian special forces (or anybody else) had real problems with Muslims, they would never agree to go into combat with them. The reality is the opposite. By the way, Czarist Russia had Muslim units, as did the Soviet Union (including the famous “Muslim Battalion” which participated in one of the most amazing operations in the history of special forces: the seizure of the Amin Palace in Kabul in 1979).

And now I will conclude with my last question for western “ethno-nationalists” and other islamophobes:

Are you sure you are strong enough to take on Russia AND China AND Iran AND the entire Muslim world? Considering your advanced state of decay (which Alt-Righters deplore, therefore also implicitly admit), do you really think that by declaring urbi et orbi that Islam is evil and a threat to your “way of life” (nevermind local converts to Islam, a rapidly growing segment of the population of the West) you are doing yourself or your country a favor? And beware of the Dunning Kruger Effect 🙂

One thing is sure: Russia will never become an Alt-Right or otherwise Islamophobic country. So don’t count on Russia to support you in your war against Islam.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy, Ideology • Tags: EU, Immigration, Islamophobia, Muslims, Russia 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    Kremlin orders, a? Nice pic BTW.

    I’ll bite:

    1. Islam is a religion of violence, it was spread with violence and it condones violence, including for religious reasons. In fact, Islam encourages violence in its followers.
    2. Islam is a medieval and barbaric religion. It is completely incompatible with western values.
    3. Immigrants from Muslim countries represent a clear and present danger for western societies and if their number exceeds a certain percentage they can take over a western society and impose their religious values including Sharia law.

    Yep.

    …all this talk of different “strains” of Islam is totally useless and self-deceiving. The truth is all of Islam is dangerous, maybe with some minimal variations here and there, but only on the margins. …

    is the proper paragraph.

    1. Convert 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
    2. Expel 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
    3. Murder 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims and, just to cover our bases
    4. any combination and ratio of the three solutions above

    ….if that is our plan…

    It isn’t.

    So here is my first question: are you seriously advocating taking on and declaring your intention of aggressively dealing with a religion which has a total potential of 1.8 billion people closing ranks and resisting your aggression?

    Dumb.
    Actually….this doesn’t feel like Saker. Ghostwritten more like it. Youngish….probably even female. Prog type.

    Skipped the rest.

  2. Anonymous[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    You are a true expert at looking as an expert in some undefined field while saying absolutely nothing of interest. Do you sell cars for a living?
    Also, nobody cares about your attention span or, for that matter, your opinions…if you have nothing to contribute, why don’t you shut up?

  3. Biff says:

    Question:

    If Islamic countries had the means and ability to bomb Western countries in the same way Western countries are bombing Islamic countries would they?

    Spare me the false flags – 9/11 etc….

    • Replies: @Darryl
    , @sally
  4. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Good point!
    PeterAUS – nobody give a crap how much you have read, or how much you have understood. The same goes for your pretend psychoanalysis.
    If you have something of value to say – say it.
    If you don’t – go a read a book.

  5. Just as the war on terrorism has turned the West into a self-destructive vortex that works to regenerate the causes of the evil it claims to eradicate, the suicidal tendencies of Western culture are, in effect, the mirror image – or monstrous double – of the suicide bomber of radical Islamic terrorism. And so, the “Islamic other” is not so other after all. Most of the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks that haunt us the most lived in the West, were trained in the West, shared the same experience of globalisation, and used the same means of media communication to gain their support. These so-called Muslim terrorists may indeed be the closest of all possible neighbours. And as such, we must understand ourselves in a similar struggle as our Middle Eastern sisters and brothers, where those with no-part in the existing order of things speak truth and fight for justice as the immediate embodiment of society as such, in its universality, against the particular power interests of the small tribe of degenerate oligarchs that are running civilization off the edge of a cliff. For all truly emancipatory politics is generated by the intrusion of the excluded into the socio-political space.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  6. Begemot says:
    @peterAUS

    Dumb.

    As a self-analysis of your effort here, spot on.

  7. Does anyone still read the Saker?

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Wally
  8. West must decide if it is Christian or not.
    If yes,
    Must govern by principle, not lawless rot.

    If no,
    Society must splinter forever;
    No other glue to hold it together.

    Democracy will not do:
    Has been weaponized to individual factions;
    Works for bolshevik banks, corporations, and nations.

    • Replies: @Richard P
  9. Erebus says:

    Even if only 1M of the 5M Muslims in France actually resist, your combined security/police/military forces could not deal with that kind of resistance without a huge bloodbath which will ruin your country…

    Maybe the experience Beijing gets from their attempts at civilizing the Uyghurs can be exported.

  10. SDC says:

    Wow, so not all of them are violent? Cool. Better let em all in, I guess.

  11. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    Never mind the buzzcocks, here’s Christian Prince: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LoBpJ31jLU

    The best bit starts at 48:00 where the muslim actually laughs at his own holy books. You will also laugh, I guarantee it.

    [Upon entering paradise] “everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh.” – https://sunnah.com/bukhari/59/64

    Can you picture that? You will have two transparent skeleton women for a wife.

    Remember Islam is extremely iconoclastic and there is no symbolism here, it has to be taken literally.

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @hyll
    , @anonymous
  12. Exile says:

    Saker’s a useful ally vs. the globalist narrative but his view of ethnic identity and how it should be practiced is just “anti-racism” repackaged for a harder-Right audience.

    Absent at least a few centuries of bloody, contentious and near-totalitarian cultural fusion, there is no kumbaya compromise to be reached between Whites & Semites. Point to the Semites for resisting assimilation in this respect, but we need geographic and cultural separation to co-exist in some kind of peace.

    There is no Orthodox Empire version of the Ottomans under which Europeans (Whites) can live cheek-to-jowl with Semites and still preserve their culture or lead a peaceful life in the way they wish in harmony with their own traditions.

    The other peoples beyond Arabs and Persians who have adopted Islam are also far outside the compatibility spectrum with Euro peoples – Blacks, SW Asians including Turks, Pakis, Indians as well as parts of SE Asisa. Day-to-day experience in the Diverso-Dystopias of London or LA provide ample evidence.

    I don’t think Muslims are on the whole plotting to destory or conquer the West, but they are an extremely different highly-assertive and contentious group of races, ethnicities and cultures with whom cohabitation is net-negative for Whites. Their gain, our pain.

    Let them live in their own homelands. I don’t care what they choose to do with their women, gays, etc… or how they choose to govern themselves in their own homelands. When their immigrants inevitably try to make my homeland something more to their liking, as all peoples do, they become a problem for me.

    No amount of pseudo-Trad-realist-flavored kumbaya makes that acceptable.

    • Agree: Buck Ransom
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    , @foobc1
  13. Seraphim says:
    @peterAUS

    @this doesn’t feel like Saker.

    Yes, indeed. It was a surprise when he published the post that provoked such ‘outrage and even pure rage’. Only rarely does he refer to Islam or Muslims, and always in a political context, and never used the term ‘Islamophobia’ when denouncing the ‘Anglo-Zionists’. It obviously was a ‘response’ to something so outrageous said by an ‘Islamophobe’ that provoked his ire and pushed him to take an ‘atitud’ and to launch into an unrequited apology of Islam (with subtle swipes at Christianity in general and the Orthodox Russian Church he makes so much fuss about, in special). I took the pain to go through his archived posts and I found nothing. Not even the ‘outrage and rage’ that pushed him to relapse (only critical and surprised comments, perhaps some more incisive) even more aggressively.
    But I think we got a clue: he refers to the situation of Muslims in France (“let’s assume that 92% of the French people are totally united behind a plan to “de-Islamize France”. Now think it through and you will immediately see the problem”, “if we really could compare the figures of God-fearing and pious Muslims versus God-fearing and pious Christians then the first religion of France (and probably Russia) already is Islam and not Christianity”).
    Now the real surprise is that on the 10th of November at the initiative of the “Collectif contre l’islamophobie en France (CCIF)”, supported tacitly by the leading crypto-Zionist organizations in France: the “International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism/Ligue Internationale Contre le Racisme et l’Antisémitisme (LICRA)” and the “Conseil Représentatif des Institutions juives de France (CRIF)/Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions) and all the French “Left”, organized a mammoth “Marche contre l’Islamophobie”/March against Islamophobia under the banner « L’islamophobie n’est pas une opinion, c’est un délit »/Islamophobia is not an opinion, is a crime.
    So, most likely there are no ‘Kremlin orders’. Rather from his ‘dear friend’, an obscure Muslim preacher from Trinidad, Sheikh Imran Hossein, ‘advocate’ of a Muslim Orthodox alliance for defeating the Anglo-Zionist Dajjal (Anti-Christ). Imran Hosein, according to Wikipedia is a ‘controversial Islamic scholar and End of Times expert’, and there are fatwas discouraging Muslims from listening to his talks.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @peterAUS
  14. A fantastic follow-up to your first article, Mr. Saker.

    Indeed, regardless of one’s opinion of Islam, the impossibility of the mass exodus for which so many here clamor is really the only issue that matters in the end. Very few seem capable of addressing that reality.

    The realm of Islam is expansive, accommodating a broad array of perspectives, and there is nothing to prevent the next generation of Muslim Americans from advancing the faith in such a way that invigorates social conservativism, empowers Christians, and safeguards religious liberty throughout the nation. Nothing necessitates a return to imperial delusions of grandeur. A genuine recrudescence of the faith will honor the original federalist vision of Medina that so inspired Jefferson.

    And even if some Muslims don’t agree, it’s simply sound wisdom to appeal to such religious precedent — a means of diplomacy that has proven far more effective in coming to respectable terms of peace than has wholesale vilification.

    Once again, thank you for this effort.

  15. Rahan says:

    Having a population of around 10% prone to violence, self-organisation into gangs, and low impulse control–such as Somalians, Arabs, Albanians, Salvadorans, and urban blacks–is a very effective way to keep a civilized society from going totally inert and castrated.

    This small, nagging, constant irritant of society in question serves to remind society how the world really works outside of the protective web of this society. Especially outside the 1st world as such.

    Without 10% violent and arrogant ignoramuses, Sweden tends to turn into…Sweden.

    The question is to not let the medicine turn into poison. A stable 10% is more than enough. 30%, 40% and so on–that’s not OK. That’s a killing dose.

    BTW, the daily grin: Hungary has stopped participating in Eurovision, because it’s “too gay”:)
    Look it up.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  16. Onebornfree says: • Website

    Summary: a rabid big government collectivist/proto-communist, [Saker], asks certain questions of other rabid big government collectivist/proto-communists [the “alt-right”], concerning its/their supposed collective attitude towards yet another group of rabid big government collectivist/proto-communists [Muslims].

    Nothing more than [yet another ] worthless dim-bulb discussion about what their ever sacred big government ‘should” do to keep “everyone” [i.e. “the majority”], “happy”, and as always, with the unspoken assumption that it can in fact do that- despite the masses of evidence to the contrary.

    What a frickin’ waste of time.

    “Stupid is as stupid does” Forest Gump

    “Everything government touches turns to crap” Ringo Starr

    “The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic” H.L.Mencken

    “My first rule- I don’t believe anything the government tells me- nothing!- ZERO!” George Carlin

    “Government  is a disease masquerading as its own cure”  Robert LeFevere

    “Regards” onebornfree

  17. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Peter is one of those fat, unshaven dudes, moderately intelligent, with poor social skills who sits behind his computer all day posting messages. It makes him feel worthwhile. It is his gracious, intellectual contribution to humanity, LOL.

  18. Look. Immigrants:
    A. Take jobs
    B. Lower wages
    C. Prevent any and all efforts at unionization or any kind of organization.

    Immigrants do not appear in a country because they simple walk there on their own two feet. They appear because elites import them, for obvious economic reasons.

    There are simple, clear, unemotional, un-bigoted, un-evil reasons why immigration might be considered not exactly an unalloyed good. They are economic. Both conservative and Marxist thinkers (those who are not either maddened by emotion or paid-off) agree on this simple fact: Immigration aids capital by confounding Labor. Period.

    • Agree: Daniel H
    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    , @Bugg
  19. It’s simple cause and effect. The Ummah has a strong notion of collective self defense, and the West has for the last century invaded, raped, robbed, and murdered its members.

    As Westerners proudly admit, they are democratic (even if the prolls are too stupid to understand that representative democracy is evolutionary autocracy), meaning the electorate – which acquiesces to this slaughter – is also a legitimate political target for Islamic self defense. It’s crude, but it is what it is.

    It’s interesting that the right sees the colonial crusade of Israel, and rightfully acknowledges both the suffering and response of the Palestinians, but ignores the equivalent impact of the West as a whole on the ME, and the identical reaction that population shows. Turns out, it’s not just the Jew who weeps while he beats you, other nations are open to that crazy as well!

    Look at Russia after a century of slaughter – a difficult people that need a generation or two of peace. Same for Islam. Russians are getting it, and the national psyche is improving. The Ummah needs the same medicine.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  20. peterAUS says:
    @Seraphim

    …. launch into an unrequited apology of Islam (with subtle swipes at Christianity in general and the Orthodox Russian Church he makes so much fuss about, in special).

    …So, most likely there are no ‘Kremlin orders’. Rather from his ‘dear friend’, an obscure Muslim preacher from Trinidad, Sheikh Imran Hossein, ‘advocate’ of a Muslim Orthodox alliance for defeating the Anglo-Zionist Dajjal (Anti-Christ).

    Probably, but, with the author, there is just One Rule: “Is it good for Kremlin?”. Look at the picture.

    Kremlin feel they made a workable deal with Muzzies. Don’t want to antagonize them and, more importantly, want own, Russian, population docile….. while the project goes on. Numbers game.
    And, weakening West benefits Kremlin too. Importing millions of Muzzies helps, definitely, there.

    That’s for using his name/signature in this article.
    Style-wise, doesn’t feel like him. I’ve heard same…ahm..arguments… from mid-thirties prog females.

    In any case, definitely not in the interests of Christian Europeans.
    I wonder, NOT, what Serbs, Saker appear to be so fond of, think and feel about this piece.

  21. Yet one more verbose, boring and ignorant article from a so-called Christian, who in his almost ritualistic fashion once again is telling lies and spitting at Jews.

    Heck, the so-called “Christian West” has now even officially adopted the so-called Noahide Laws which declare Christianity a form of idolatry!

    Of course, a Christian lies because he has to – his lies are true, noble and are meant to bring good to mankind. For is it not the best thing that can happen to a man – to go to Paradise?

    Lies, told for the sake of such a noble purpose are sacred. And this is an obligation for a Christian to not be tolerant of Jews. For Jews, the Christ said, are the children of the Father of Lies.

    Therefore, a Christian must consider that since he is not a Jew he is not to be blamed for a lie, and in the case of telling lies for the sake of going to Paradise, to Christ he will get an absolution.

    This is called an idol. And the first of the Ten Commandments is “Thou shalt have none other gods before me.” A Christian should know that, for he is supposed to read the Scripture.

    The Scripture he stole from Jews. How come a Christian has so much faith and no understanding? And this is so because a Christian is blind, for God punishes the wicked.

    “Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.” – Leviticus 26:1

    The whole doctrine of the Church is a paranoid nightmare, and the whole paraphernalia and the rituals of the Church and indeed idol worship. Christians are idolaters and know no God.

    For the “god” of Christians is a scizophrenic idea, the concept about an omnipotent but flawed – at the same time, superbeing which has to let people torture his son in order to forgive them.

    He cannot forgive them otherwise because he is fed up with them to the point of wiping them out, but sacrifices his son to feel compassion to those of them who feel compassion for him.

    Those of them who believe in this tale are to be taken to Paradise. And though amount of the tickets to Heaven is limited to 144 thousands, in the end each good Christian should get one.

    Yes, something does not add up, but does it matter? Let us better talk a bit more about Jews, these murderers of Christ, who want their teaching to spread – as opposed to Christians, who do not.

    Yes, the so-called Noahide Laws. Jews lost their covenant with God but still want to spread throughout the world His commandments. The Bible does not belong to them no more, but Jews insist it does.

    Christians are the New Israel: the Bible is now theirs, although Christians do not need it, because Christ saved them. The New Testament replaced the old one, but for some reason it is in the Scripture.

    Judaic parasite does not comprehend the great ideas of the Church Fathers, of course and is, as usual, mocking the wisdom, and for sure scheming some conspiracies againt mankind.

    But good Christians know better, as do all people of good faith: one who has no doubt is to be saved, and will go to Heaven and one who does not believe will get into a serious trouble.

  22. I don’t hate groups of people for any reason that they’re part of a group. So, I don’t care.

  23. Seraphim says:
    @peterAUS

    I wouldn’t go that far. Putin, or any Russian government for that matter, have to make a workable deal with the Muslims for the simple reason that they are there and are Russian subjects for generations, the constitution (good or bad) guarantees some rights for them. But I don’t believe that they pose the same threat in Russia as they do in the rest of the world, because Russia has dealt with it since Ivan IV and is ready to deal with it if necessary. Chechnya is an example. There have been loyal Chechen units in the Tsarist Army, after Chechnya has been ‘subjugated’, and in the Soviet Army, which did not prevent them to go over to the ‘takfiris’ in ’90s. The Russian response is known. But you won’t see them vandalizing and burning churches, killing priests, imposing the wear of burkas or halal food parading in the streets with placards claiming ‘Islam will dominate the world’ and threatening to behead those who insult Mahomed (like in Sydney, not long ago) with impunity like in the West which, unfortunately, let them do and justify their actions out of fear that they would be classified ‘Islamophobes’. Notice how Islamophobia is lumped together with racism, xenophobia, homophobia, anti-semitism. Cui prodest? Not the Kremlin, to be sure.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @David55
  24. peterAUS says:
    @Seraphim

    We have a problem.

    The fellow appears to be legit, as in:
    http://instituteforgenocide.org/?p=10276
    As in:

    On behalf of the victims and surviving witnesses of the aggression against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina and genocide against Bosniaks, the Congress of North American Bosniaks {CNAB} and the Institute for Research of Genocide, Canada {IGC} reject and condemn inhumane attitudes by the so called Sheikh Imran Hosein in denying genocide in Srebrenica and the events of the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina, for which he solely blames the West and NATO. His positions are on the trail of conspiracy theories and as such conflict with the historical and legal facts regarding the genocide in Serbrenica.

    At the same time, there IS that little thing
    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

    I guess we could make a workable compromise here, as:
    1. Stop, immediately, all Muslim immigration into the Europe.
    2.Filter the current Muslim population in Europe and (let’s skip details here):
    -Encourage some of them to go back where they came from.
    -Force some of them to go back where they came from.
    -Detain those who refuse two above.
    -Allow some of them to remain as long as they stick to some rules. Like…… all those guys in
    Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Saudi Arabia, for example.

    The good Sheikh could work on some details from 2 above as a part of Government. Especially on the last point.

    Can’t wait…….

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  25. peterAUS says:
    @Seraphim

    Cui prodest? Not the Kremlin, to be sure.

    Disagree.
    Doesn’t matter/distraction. Let’s keep the focus here. Islam in Western Europe.
    Fixing the problem, I mean.

  26. Seraphim says:

    It’s up to the ‘West’ to fix the problem that it created itself. Don’t blame it on Russia. Combating ‘Islamophobia’ and advocating ‘Egalite et Réconciliation’ won’t solve the problem, it only aggravates it.
    Regarding the good Sheikh, he lies about the Quran ‘prophesying’ an Orthodox-Muslim alliance. One may wonder how did he manage to bamboozle the Saker who takes his words as… Quran truth.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  27. Saker has usually been pretty sensible, but with this screed, I disagree profoundly.
    It is certainly morally wrong for the West to bomb, invade and otherwise harass the Muslim world. But we have absolutely no obligation to admit even a single one of them into our countries.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
    , @Moi
    , @GMC
  28. @Fidelios Automata

    But we have absolutely no obligation to admit even a single one of them into our countries.

    Of course; the question is, what is Europe going to do with the 26 million who are already there, most of them legally or as citizens? What is the U.S. going to do with its 3.5 million Muslims? Even if neither Europe nor the U.S. accept a single immigrant Muslim from this day forward.

  29. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    Isn’t there a commandment against bearing false witness?

  30. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    Same malarkey that said Christ did not rise from the dead,
    Now says reborn Church does not live by the blood He shed.

  31. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    In the comment’s arrogant ignorance,
    One hears the vain bleatings of supremacism.

    Better to consult the Father’s prophets,
    Who foretell Messiah and holy Baptism.

  32. Darryl says:
    @Biff

    We may find out soon enough with the Saudis.

  33. Avianthro says:

    Dear Fidelios, could you please square that policy with the First Amendment? Can you prove that every Muslim who wants to immigrate to the USA is determined to destroy it and undermine its Constitution?

    As to the Saker’s article: A thorough, pragmatically-minded argument and analysis, getting away from the morass of semantic arguments.

    A couple of other pragmatic question that need an answer:

    If not for modern economics’ absolute dependency on petroleum, and the US financial system’s need for the petrodollar, would any of us be arguing about Islamophobia? Would the US be giving more aid to Israel than any other nation in the world?

  34. Bournite says:

    Sorry, but it was hard to take any of this article seriously once I came across the statement that Latin Papists were “the most advanced and experienced genociders in history”? No basis is presented for this highly dubious assertion. Taking into account the initial Islamic conquest, the conquest of Persia later, India, the sub-Saharan conquest, the African slave trade (including the untold carnage entailed in eunuch production), the bloodthirst along the Mediterranean by pirates of the Maghreb, and numerous other incidents, it seems difficult to dispute that Islam is the most deadly human entity ever invented. Hitler and the commies together didn’t rack up such a toll. I’m calling BS. Please prove me wrong if you can.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Hibernian
    , @Miggle
  35. @Anonymous

    Why don’t you quit being anonymous and man (or woman) up?

  36. @SeekerofthePresence

    You – not me – are the one who is showing sheer ignorance here, comrade, as well as insolent arrogance. And I must confess that I have never met a Christian who was different. Since it requires a degree of being stupid to become, or to remain a Christian in the first place, and all the intelligent people among them I have met appeared a bit insane – because, I guess, for an intelligent man to continue to accept the Christian belief is not possible without going mad, to some extent.

    And I consider that it is for this particular reason that translating the New Testament was punishable for more than a millenia, and each one a person who attempted to do that was burned at the stake. The reason, to be more specific, is that it was clear to the clerics that a sane man of a moderate intelligence, after having read the New Testament himself would come to understanding that the teaching of the Church is a lie – this follows from the text, and it requires not much of a common sense to see.

    For example, the whole doctrine of Jesus being the son of God is based on the notion of his supposed ressurection. A critical approach to the text without the bias of fanaticism will expose to the reader in a matter of an hour that the four accounts are different from each other and therefore, in the best case scenario not more than one of them could be true. And thus, to trust these accounts with faith is not possible without losing a substantial part of one’s mind. Look closer at the text.

    [MORE]

    The gospel of Matthew states in 28:1-3 that two women went to the tomb and saw an angel, who looked like a lightning and was sitting on the stone. And the women ran back in fear and met Jesus who said “Hello, what’s up, women!” and the women “clasped his feet and worshiped him.” And then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. And seeing him, some doubted. The question that comes to mind is – how come the disciples could not recognize their teacher?

    And in the end, again Jesus came to them and said, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.” And another question needs to be asked at this point: what happened to him after that? Did he die? And if he died, then where was he buried? And how come the gospel does not make it clear, leaving the reader with this unfinished account and making him ask these questions? And this is the beginning of a doubt. Let us look further.

    The gospel of Luke, 24:1-4. “On the first day of the week the women took the spices and went to the tomb.” The stone was rolled out from the tomb, and the Lord Jesus wasn’t there. “And suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.” Just after we read that Matthew said it was one angel, Luke is telling us about two of them. Does it not make us suspect at this point that the whole tale is a fake? But let us continue. Perhaps it will be clarified later? Let’s see.

    The women came back from the tomb, and “told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.” And as the Eleven – his closest friends – talked and discussed these things with each other, “Jesus himself came up and walked along with them,” but his friends “were kept from recognizing him.” And this means that Jesus was not himself, in other words that man was not Jesus, otherwise he would be recognized. And it is stupid to assume that Jesus would appear before them and made them blind. For what?

    And the gospel ends: “He was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.” And again it makes me wonder, what this is supposed to mean – that he all of a sudden died and his soul ascended to Heaven, and then – where his tomb is? Or does it mean that he ascended to Heaven like a gas balloon? Then what is the point of doing that – were starship troopers waiting there for him with a UFO, or something? There must be an explanation for this! Let us continue reading.

    The gospel of Mark, 16:1-6. Three women went to the tomb and found it open. “A man, dressed in a white robe” was sitting on the right side. “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here.” And then, trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb, and said nothing to no one. Mark tells us that the women said nothing to no one. And this is the earliest known manuscript of the four gospels. And it ends right there: the women fled, said nothing to no one and this is it.

    However, the later versions of the gospel of Mark feature a longer ending. This is a known and well-researched fact that the gospel of Mark was reducted, because the earliest versions were found in Ethiopia and the later ones were doctored: to make the narrative fit the doctrine of the Church. For the first three centuries Jesus was not considered the son of God and this was a topic of a lot of theological arguments between the first schools of Christian thought in the beginning. A known fact.

    And the gospel of John? Let us see, John 20:1-2. He tells us that one woman – not three – went to the tomb, and “saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance” and so she “came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple” – and that is John himself, and thus he tells us the truth that he heard himself – and he heard himself she said that Jesus has been taken out of the tomb. And he goes on, in 20:14-15 with the same kind of nonsense as in the other gospels but not the same, at the same time: “At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.”

    That man was not Jesus. How could she not recognize him? But as John is telling us, she thought that he was a gardener. She talked to him and then in the middle of the converstation she “realized” that he was Jesus. This is plain stupid. And John also does not tell us what happened to that man after his appearance before them. So what do we have here in the end? A tale, that the four people each of whom is supposed to be a witness told us each with his own plot and his own scenario, his own sequence of events – and all four of them claim to be honest.

    And what it looks like is that Jesus was taken out of the tomb and then someone with wounds on his hands came to his people and persuaded them that he was Jesus. Perhaps, gaslighting them? And no one of the four explaines what happened to him after that. There is no reason to trust these accounts because all of them differ. No court in the world would accept more than one of them as a true account of a true witness. However, Christians still must believe that all of them are true. More so, the earlist of the gospels tells us nothing about that “resurrected” Jesus.

    Christians are stupid. Or insane, or both.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
    , @Anon
  37. tyrel says:

    Did the Latin church invent genocide as a concept? Never heard that one before. Also wasn’t it the leader of the Russian orthodox church who said a third of the Jews will assimilate, a third will leave and a third will die? I think the saker is projecting.

  38. Arioch says:
    @Anonymous

    One Christian cleric once said that he believes in those “wives from the houris” thing, he just calls it “succubi” and claims that after first few hours on non-stop sexing them – the rest of non-0stop sexing for eternity would be THE hellish torture 🙂

  39. SafeNow says:

    When my Iranian-family friends entertain, it’s a great party, but dinner is served incredibly late. Past my dotage bedtime. The appetizers are wonderful, but I’ve never made it past the appetizers. I mentioned this to a proficient Iranian doc of mine, who laughed and reported following the same custom. This culinary custom is my sole “complaint” against S. Cal’s Middle East community, which in my experience is assimilated, industrious, decent, and charity-conscious. Perhaps Iranians are different, I don’t know.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  40. @ParadoxRocks

    You forgot: funded by the West.

  41. Dmitry says:

    The general mood of “Islamophobia” is higher in Russia, compared to Western countries, so it is not a fair representation to describe as if Russia is full of Islamophilia – in relation to this religious component.

    You can just compare internet reaction to an attack in a mosque in New Zealand. In a Russian – both liberal and conservative- forums, it seemed almost like a majority of internet posters writing in forums supported this attack. Obviously, supporting such an attack on innocent people is somewhat disgusting and shows an infantile/immoral mentality of internet users – however, it also is symptom of a generally more negative attitude to religious Islam in Russia, compared to in Western Europe and America’s culture.

    As for Muslims, and people of Muslim origin – this is very common in Russia. But a vast majority of Muslims – or people with Muslim descent – in the Russian Federation are fully secularized and modernized population culturally. (A lot of the Muslim origin is just now an etymology in family names).

    In the USSR, and even beginning earlier, there was a usually quite successful secularization, modernization and cultural assimilation of Muslim nationalities (including of some majority Muslim republics) .

    So, how is the most famous Tatar daughter today?

    What was the result of Rusification/secularization of Azerbaijan – it is a now a very modern, civilized country.

    And how are youth in Kazakhstan ?

  42. [“Bismarck”, please … with a “c” 😀 ]

    Seriously, what´s it gonna be?
    – Pjotr Welikij was a bad man (really, did they have to name some fat old ship after him?) and he cut off the Mudderland´s beard, Katharina II. was a German whore and don´t get me started on Alexander I.
    Melnikow is our prophet, repaint thy sins!
    – No, wait … it´s George Soros: We are here and we are going nowhere nyah nyah nyah.

    As long as the Visigoths were Arians they did not give a hoot whether their neighbors worshipped carpets or beat up their wifeys.
    Don Rodrigo Diaz de Bivar, before he got holy and played by Charlton Heston, still on occasion massacred Christians for the Emirs of Saragossa when times were lean (under Alfonso VI., halfway through the “reconquista”!).
    European absolutism was the Muslim form of administration Friedrich II. brought back from the Holy Land.
    And La France, from Louis XIV. to Napoleon III., merrily allied with the Sublime Porte against Habsburg.
    However this one plays out, it will not be along “confessional” lines (except one 😛 ), more a paper bag test;
    at least Bosniaks (actually Croats who converted because Turks were less of a pain in the pooter than Serbs) and Alewite Kurds* will be on our side.

    *Islam can tentatively be divided into (there is no such thing as “Umma”):
    – The Shia´t Ali: Self-described party of righteousness and sacrifice, but more aptly the Persian uprising against Arab barbarism; closest to us in race and doctrine.
    – The Semitic Heartland: Without the oil money Wahhabism would be confined to the desert where it belongs.
    – The Rest: In West Africa, Rohlfs noted that polygamy and filth were the only noticeable changes.
    In the old Yamnaya lands (“Urheimat”) the surest way to spot the Muslim is to look for the sober one on friday afternoon.

    Congrats to Mother Russia on slipping the Jewish yoke – more or less and at long last;
    May Vlad´s sons grow up to be strong (and hopefully a bit taller).
    But we have been in this for a few centuries also 😛

  43. @obwandiyag

    Well said … now don´t let it get to your head 😉

  44. Arioch says:
    @SafeNow

    i suppose in those ultra-hot lands people somewhat switched to twilight life cycle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crepuscular_animal

    So their “very late” or “very early” for us meals are set in normal time by their slightly different time loop

  45. @Rahan

    Ah, and to think it took us centuries to domesticate Arpad´s horde …
    and now look at how they have worked out 😀

    10% is more like “uppermost limit sustainable” – do you have it a bit more homeopathic?

  46. peterAUS says:
    @Seraphim

    Combating ‘Islamophobia’ and advocating ‘Egalite et Réconciliation’ won’t solve the problem, it only aggravates it.

    Well, depends on which side one is.
    For Islamists/Muslims that’s, as we speak, a winning strategy. Our side combats our…ahm…”Islamophobia” and keeps inactive in the real world, while they keep increasing their numbers and, consequently, power in society. When they get enough numbers they’ll be quite in a good position to solve their problem. Us.

    One may wonder how did he manage to bamboozle the Saker who takes his words as… Quran truth.

    Combination of things. Money as one of them I’d venture to guess.
    Not a big deal as long as alt-whatever people don’t buy it. Looking at this comments thread feels O.K. in that regards.

  47. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    gaslighting

    The only one “gaslighting” is you.

    You arrogance betrays itself again in your sloppy and dismissive reading of the texts.
    No contradiction exists but in your hyperbolic and hate-filled imagination.

    Here is a more astute reading of the texts by a noted Jewish chemist who became Christian…

  48. bluedog says:
    @Emblematic

    Your still here aren’t you, so you answered your own question.!!!

  49. @SeekerofthePresence

    Just looking at his insane facial expression is enough for me. Like I said one has to be stupid, insane or ignorant to be a Christian – there are no other Christians but stupid, insane or ignorant.

    You belong to the latter – being unable to respond with an argument, which requires some knowledge of the text. You have no knowledge of the text. And bring someone else for me to listen to instead.

    You belong to the first – being a blind believer, who does not question and does not test what he is told to believe in, and this is stupid. And the wicked deceive the stupid. Read the New Testament.

    “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles?”

    “A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.”

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  50. Islam and Christianity are irrelevant. It comes down to race and IQ in the end. Islam is a problem because it was, in every country where it took root, the religion of the losers and the downtrodden. The intellectual and business elites in places like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Turkey consisted mostly of Christians (and Jews to a lesser extent) right up to the present day. Only since the foundation of Israel have most of these countries seen their non-Islamic populations purged and driven out. Muslim immigration to Europe is not a problem because of their religion, it is because Europe is replacing 105 IQ populations with 90 IQ populations. This will not end well.

    But of course Saker is also happy bringing in millions of low IQ Hispanics into the US because they have “Christian values”. Good luck with that. We can see how well that worked in Mexico. But Saker seems to believe in “magic dirt.”

    Russia is facing the same problem, btw. The government has driven out the Jewish population, and most high IQ ethnic Russians are also increasingly choosing to emigrate. Russia’s Muslim population, thankfully, is probably one of the most intelligent and best educated Muslim populations anywhere on earth, but that means Tatarstan is more likely to determine the future of Eurasia than Muscovy.

    Humanity in general is going into a steep demographic qualitative decline. The best solution is probably to wall off somewhere like Switzerland where a core population can ride out the coming century of war and pestilence that is right over the horizon.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Anonymous
    , @nokangaroos
  51. @Chet Bradley

    18 million Muslims and according to statistics

    Muslim is an individual who practices Islam…..ethnicity not so much

    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
  52. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    Again your “argument” makes no sense.

    Facial expression impassioned, yes; he is after all demonstrating Christ’s passion and resurrection from the text. Insane expression, no; that impression is a projection of your own vitriol.

    If he were insane as you suggest, why is Dr. James Tour listed among the world’s most influential chemists. I dare say his scientific credentials tower above your own.

    Are you afraid to view his lecture because its cogency would give the lie to your inanities?

    The failure of your fake argument in the face of a real argument made by a highly credentialed scientist is on you.

  53. @Exile

    Agree.

    “This same West wants to be White again and while it really ditched any pretense of Christianity decades ago, it finds it expedient to expand its hatred from “just immigrants” to Muslims and Islam in general.”

    Don’t you get it Saker? Read your own words again.

    “We ditched any pretense of Christianity decades ago…” Yes and yes again….and we don’t want to have to deal with a whole new bunch of superstitious religious fanatics!

    That’s the very point. They’re crazy nuts and we don’t want to have to deal with the disfunction of their cultural breakdown as they rub up against the 21st century European mindset. We just got done quieting the bickering between Catholics and Protestants and now you want us to go through the same shit with Muzzies.

    I don’t think you’re writing in good faith. You don’t mean us well.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  54. peterAUS says:
    @ThreeCranes

    We just got done quieting the bickering between Catholics and Protestants and now you want us to go through the same shit with Muzzies.

    He does. Or, better, his “sponsors” do.

    I don’t think you’re writing in good faith. You don’t mean us well.

    Don’t say.
    Pays well, though.

  55. @SeekerofthePresence

    Religion is not a science, friend and knowing science does not enable one to understand religion. And since you have nothing of your own on your mind, this conversation is over.

    You are a fine example of a Christian.

    Cheers.

  56. @peterAUS

    I didn’t go any further than

    unavoidable questions which western Islamophobia at least should elicit in the thinking person. Here are a few questions to which I would love to hear some fact based or logically developed answers.

    A phobia is an irrational fear. What is irrational about fearing a group that spent over a thousand years trying to conquer Europe? Their only major setbacks coming in Tours in the 8th century, the Mongol invasions of the 13th century, which pushed them back a thousand miles, their expulsion from the Iberian Peninsula after 700 years in the 15th century, and in Austria a couple of times in the 18th century. Is it irrational to fear a group that took close to 2 million Europeans, primarily women for sex slavery, to be sold into slavery or used against their own people as soldiers? Is it irrational to fear for the safety of your children being raped or “groomed” by people who identify as Muslims?
    What no one will acknowledge is that this behaviour is normal for them. Before the Taliban ambushed and slaughtered the leaders of the “Northern Alliance” to take control of Afghanistan, the women and children in Afghanistan were routinely kidnapped for sex slavery by the Northern Alliance. That was part of the reason they banned them from leaving their homes.

    I’m prepared to take any individual as (s)he comes. Groups of any size are a whole different question. Pack mentality is deeply embedded in our DNA. The issue is defining the pack.

  57. Biff says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    We can see how well that worked in Mexico.

    Nothing wrong with Mexico.. Nice place.

  58. Seraphim says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    You are wasting your time responding to Morons of his type. They are insane and stupid and malevolent. They are polluting the atmosphere. He is a troll.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
    • Disagree: TKK
    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
    , @TKK
  59. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    A final strawman argument in keeping with your other decimated strawmen.

    The argument is Dr. Tour’s presentation. Too bad you lacked the courage to confront his evidence and its direct conclusion. You might have heard some Good News.

    A last resort to Bill Maher is an ignominious concession to fatuity.

    Farewell “sound and fury….”

  60. foobc1 says:
    @Exile

    beyond Arabs and Persians who have adopted Islam are also far outside the compatibility spectrum with Euro peoples – Blacks, SW Asians including Turks, Pakis, Indians as well as parts of SE Asisa. Day-to-day experience in the Diverso-Dystopias of London or LA provide ample evidence.

    You are very confused which is about par for the course.

    Indo-Europeans (Indo means India) were never conquered and repelled Islam – 80% of India is Hindu/Aryan (and has been since beginning of time).

    The Dystopia of London you refer to is not created by Indians – they are the ones who stop it from becoming a total Dystopia.

  61. @Curmudgeon

    Agreed; button used up already.

    But similarly they have a mistrust of whites/Europeans since whites have caused them plenty of harm and damage over the centuries, and that mistrust is justified too. I do feel some sympathy for those whose countries have been destroyed by the West beyond anything they would have done to themselves had they been left alone. It is only natural that they should try to infiltrate the West and get their revenge but why oh why are they being allowed to do that? Once you go to war against someone the last thing you want to do is allow them access to your own territory. In past wars it was customary to detain those of enemy origins for the duration of the conflict but nowadays that has been turned on its head so that when you go to war against someone you open your borders to let as many of them in. Of course the consequence will be all that we complain about: rapes, murders, assaults, crime, terrorism. What does one expect? Even that Libyan boy who blew up the Manchester concert – I can’t say that what he did is any more wrong or immoral than what NATO forces did in Libya – but those who were wrong were the ones who allowed him and his family into the country, and they happen to be the same ones who went along with the bombing of Libya.

  62. @Seraphim

    Thank you.

    Often discourse is like a refreshing walk in autumn. But sometimes like wearing lead shoes, and you don’t get very far. And trolls pop out from behind the trees.

    I think most often the colors and fragrances of autumn win out.

  63. peterAUS says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Pretty much.

    A minor quibble:

    Their only major setbacks ……. and in Austria a couple of times in the 18th century.

    Actually, there were a couple in 19th century, in Balkans. Like, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1877%E2%80%931878)
    And a major one, in 1912. As in
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars
    True, they came back, of sort, in 1995, with
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayton_Agreement

    The issue is defining the pack.

    Yes.
    Simple, in this case.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  64. @peterAUS

    1. Stop, immediately, all Muslim immigration into the Europe.
    2.Filter the current Muslim population in Europe and (let’s skip details here):
    -Encourage some of them to go back where they came from.
    -Force some of them to go back where they came from.
    -Detain those who refuse two above.
    -Allow some of them to remain as long as they stick to some rules. Like…… all those guys in
    Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Saudi Arabia, for example.

    You sound like a sensible man, Peter (add “and USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Latin and South America)”. But is anybody listening – among those who could implement this?

  65. @peterAUS

    Look at the picture.

    I wouldn’t read too much into that picture, he has to pose with them as they are after all his co-citizens, like with those Chabbad Lubavitches rabbis that is brought up every time by those who claim he’s working for the Jews. So is it the Jews or the Muslims he’s working for? Still the pictures with Russians far outnumber all these.

    It’s not been smooth sailing between Russians and Muslims even in recent history but they have shared that geographical space for a long time so they have to learn to co-exist and come to some arrangements. But of course the Russians should be ever vigilant and never allow the corrosive and pernicious ideas from the West to take hold.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  66. Anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “Islam is a problem because it was, in every country where it took root, the religion of the losers and the downtrodden. ”

    As a Shia Muslim, you couldn’t have given me a better compliment if you tried !
    So thank you.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  67. Andrei, your domain is east-west relations from russian perspective. imho, you might want to refrain from penning about islam.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  68. @Peter Akuleyev

    – For Russia the solution is as simple as it was under Peter, Katharina and Alexander:
    Gather the Volga+Baltic Germans from the four corners (though from listening to the Saker(ess) and others here this particular hate-love has been a bit overstrained 😛 ).
    Being receptive of the right kind of fugee can be a boon …
    the Huguenots made Brandenburg great, the Counterreformation the lands east and northwest of Habsburg. And I hear there´s a fire sale on Afrikaanders …

    Greater Turkestan under whichever name will rule the Silk Road again; which is as it should be – the only ones with an interest in pitching Christians against Muslims are neither.

    Africa is the problem; the elimination of extraspecific selection pressure (largely through modern medicine, agriculture and technology) has given the stupid, violent and oversexed (= the Bantu evolutionary model) an unheard-of advantage. Even absent (((concerted efforts))) to turn our women into whores and us into eunuchs, a wall wouldn´t help jack.
    The return to equilibrium is inevitable but it will be worse than anything in recorded history (short of maybe the Mongols).
    So the taiga may be dandy for saving the gene pool – but what about civilization?

  69. @Anonymous

    You’re welcome. Hopefully the resurgence of Shia in Iraq will prove my thesis wrong, but I am not optimistic.

  70. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    “Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.” – Leviticus 26:1

    LOL! A pot calling the kettle black! The “Cow Worshipers” calling Christians’ “Idol Worshipers”. Did you forget the Golden Calf? Where did this all gold came from? How long it takes to melt gold? And, then to reshape into a Calf?

    On this forum used to be Sam Shama who I used to address as “Big Cow Worshiper”, and he was full of it like you. And, then iffen the “Little Cow Worshiper” who used to follow Sam Shama and he is still here. When I took on to Shama, he graciously bowed and never seen him again.

    Do you think it was gold? Maybe desert sand which looks like gold depending on how the sun light shines on it. Do you know why the Chapter 2 of the Quran is called, “The Heifer”? Now, we are not talking about a calf but a heifer. How about the Special Heifer is being breed for the return of Messiah? The Special Heifer is not the same as The Heifer mentioned in the Quran.

    Hebrew was a dead language during the times of Prince of Peace Jesus (as) and thus the discourse was in Aramaic. Hebrew was revived from Arabic in the 19th Century. My Jewish friend who taught me a lot about Judaism, cautioned me that it was not dead but dormant. Dead/Dormant what is the difference. However, he agreed that Hebrew was revived from Arabic in late 18th century to early 19th century. All the Written Semitic Languages were very weak in grammar, and no one can comprehend it. For this reason the NT is Written in Koine, Greek. There was no such thing as Written OT during the times of Prince of Peace Jesus (as).

    The Quranic Arabic is the first Semitic Language with proper grammar and vowels. Do you know that from Quranic Arabic the OT was written during 12th to 15th centuries? Do you know what yhwh elohim means? It means, “O He Elohim”. Jews till today foolishly write God as G-d without vowel(s), so they refused to put vowels in yhwh. I will put the vowels for you and yhwh elohim then becomes “ya’ huwah elohim”.

    And, the prophesies in Isaiah which according to Jews is about “Morning Star” meaning the King of Babylon and they have already come true. batula (she virgin) has already given birth during the times of Morning Star. Jews took him as Son of God who is named Aziz in Arabic, and therefore they rejected Jesus as Son of God.

    What is this BS about Gematria. In Arabic, it is called, “abjad”. “”Abjad” is the name given to the arrangement of the Arabic alphabet according to the occurrence of its 28 letters in a series of eight symbolic “words” (shown above), the first of which is “abjad” itself.”

    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00urdu/urduscript/section13.html

    Sam Shama used the BS of Gematria on me, him without knowing the Hebrew Language. When I introduced him to abjad, he then bowed out and haven’t seen him since then. The Arabs taught the concept of Monotheism to Jews.

    Blessed Be HaShem!

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  71. Bugg says:
    @obwandiyag

    The elite get all the advantages and socialize the costs; win/win for them. Added bonus; the middle and working class find their wages and quality of life diminished. They’ll work cheaper. Since the 1965 Immigration Act, unionized labor has declined, along with pensions and benefits. Now you can argue that these were unsustainable as the US’s postwar industrial advantages leveled off. It also led to more 2 income families rather than mom staying home to rear the kids. GDP is not the same as quality of life.

    And as I often drive down Coney Island Avenue in Brooklyn(Emanuel Celler’s very district, he of said 1965 Act above), can state emphatically that it’s a much nastier and unpleasant street lined with both Orthodox Jews and Muslims than it was when why grandpa or dad made the same drive 100 or 50 years ago. It’s filthy, ill-kempt, ugly. Now perhaps my family were not the most wonderful of people, but they were Americans. These newcomers are not. They view America as nothing more than a badly run bank to be ripped off for all they can take.

    None of this is a coincidence.

    • Agree: Daniel H
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @ThreeCranes
  72. @anno nimus

    Andrei, your domain is east-west relations from russian perspective. imho, you might want to refrain from penning about islam.

    Father Zakaria is correct about Islam being spread with sword. There are Muslim on this forum who believe that “Offensive Jihad” is allowed in Islam, which is the biggest BS. In Islam let alone the “Offensive Jihad” being allowed, the “Defensive Jihad” is NOT allowed too. No Jihad in Islam is allowed, for religion.

    The Jihad in Islam for Defensive purposes is ONLY Allowed during the presence of the Prophet. Someone wants to defend their house and/or nation is their prerogative and God has nothing to do with these petty wars. After the demise of the Prophet while his body was still warm and not buried yet, the Islam was hijacked. Therefore, Muslims had civil wars with each other for more than 50 years.

    Father Zakaria is also correct about “rida” apostate. Prophet did away with the term “excommunication” for individuals as it gives undue power to the scholars against the adherents. So, how did the term “apostasy” crept in for the masses to be excommunicated. We have to visit Mecca first the early days of Islam.

    In those there were few Muslims, and Mohammad sent them to a Christian King asking his protection for them. He obliged. The Meccan clans saw Mohammad as a threat to their rule. When Mohammad escaped to Medina at the age of 52, he found Muslims there as low lander. The high-lander were two Jewish tribes and one another powerful Jewish Tribe.

    At the inception, they saw Mohammad as threat. So, a treaty was negotiated between Jews and Mohammad as “Family of Book”, that the “Family of Book” adherents will be allowed to follow their religion. The Jews demanded from Mohammad, that they have nothing to do with Islam and the Meccan clans. They demanded they don’t want to participate in the defense of Medina and Mohammad is responsible for the defense. They agreed a higher tax for this responsibility called, “Dhimmi”. It is is a historical term referring to non-Muslims living in an Islamic state with legal protection. The word literally means “protected person”.

    What did the Jews do then? They got with the Meccan clams and put a knives in the Prophet’s back. Finally, there was a war between the Jews and the Prophet called, “The Battle of Khaybar” Jews lost and there were allowed to migrate. So, now the Jews not only had grudge against the Christians but Muslims too. As usual they had a plan!

    While the body of the Prophet still warm and not buried yet, abu Bakr (first caliph) and Omar (second caliph) hijacked Islam. Muslims rebelled as the righful heir was Ali, who stayed benind the burial. The rebellion lasted two years until the death of abu Bakr, and abu Bakr coined a new word called, “rida – apostasy” and the rida wars.

    When Omar took over, the Jews came out in open and every caliph beside Ali had a trusted Jewish advisers behind him. The rest is history as today the Christians and Muslims are on each other throat doing the bidding of the Satan. The King of Christians got a knife in his back for his good deed done for Mohammad’s early adherent.

    War pigs by Black Sabbath
    Now in darkness world stops turning,
    Ashes where the bodies burning
    No more War Pigs have the power,
    Hand of God has struck the hour
    Day of judgement, God is calling
    On their knees the war pigs crawling,
    Begging mercies for their sins
    Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
    Oh Lord yeah!

  73. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    ….is anybody listening – among those who could implement this?

    Yes, “they” are listening. Or, better, some outfits are and then compiling reports which are then used, among many other things, to estimate what the “deplorables” think and, more importantly, feel. Based on that TPTBs fine tune their control/management mechanisms to maintain their grip on power and keep the project running.
    That’s for them.

    As for us, we are getting more uncomfortable but are still confused, a lot.
    My take:we’ll get clear when we get REALLY uncomfortable. When it happens (not long now) things will start getting interesting.

    As for

    ….So is it the Jews or the Muslims he’s working for?….

    He is working for his own mini-tribe. What, during Communist era, was called “Nomenklatura”. The Russian version of “deplorables” are the cannon fodder/collateral damage there.

    And, as for

    ….they have to learn to co-exist ….

    sounds like a plan. You sure that numbers and time work for (non-nomenklatura) Russians there?

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  74. @Assad al-islam

    Black sabbath-War Pigs (lyrics)

  75. peterAUS says:
    @Bugg

    The elite get all the advantages and socialize the costs; win/win for them. Added bonus; the middle and working class find their wages and quality of life diminished. They’ll work cheaper.

    None of this is a coincidence.

    Yep.

    Petter Gottfried explained almost all of it really well in those short books of his. In my book (pun intended) a compulsory reading for anyone wanting to understand what’s been going on.
    For that remaining, little part, MacDonald, with a sprinkling of Pearce, could help.

  76. @Assad al-islam

    Temple Hebrew very much alive in Jesus’ day.

    Jesus fulfills Isaiah’s prophecy of Messiah, the Son of God:

    “So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

    ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
    Because He has anointed Me
    To preach the gospel to the poor;
    He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
    To proclaim liberty to the captives
    And recovery of sight to the blind,
    To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
    To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.’

    Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth.” Luke 4:16-22 NKJV

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  77. @SeekerofthePresence

    Temple Hebrew very much alive in Jesus’ day.

    Jesus fulfills Isaiah’s prophecy of Messiah, the Son of God:

    Yes, I know. I married for forty eight years to a WASP from Bible Belt. We don’t live in USA anymore!

    You have responded to my post #586 in “Deconstructing Islamophobia” that OT is a Jewish Book and NOT a Christian Book. And, to quote again from my post:

    Then one day I asked him about a name Lucifer in OT in the KJV Bible, as this didn’t sound to me a Jewish name. Mary had name in Hebrew as Mariam, Miriam, Maryam and so forth. He told me everyone has their own religion book and it is their prerogative to interpret their own book according to their teachings. But the interpretation varies within the religion, and as such there so many sects within a religion. He said that OT is a Jewish book and the Christians have their own book NT. He said that the Jews don’t like the Christians to interpret the Jewish book to fit their own agenda. He said Isaiah is not the last chapter in the Jewish book as shown in KJV OT. The said the prophecies in Isaiah are regarding King of Babylon and have already come true, including the Virgin birth. He said that the word, “Morning Star” was in reference to King of Babylon, but translated in KJV OT as Lucifer.

  78. The Irfan of Imam Ali:

    [MORE]

    When Imam Ali was asked, “O Commander of the Faithful! Do you see the Lord when you devote yourself to worship?”, he replied, “Beware! I would not worship a God that I could not see.”

    [Hajj Muhammad Legenhausen] In order to understand the Irfan of Imam Ali (peace be upon him), we have to know what Irfan is, and how it is related to Imam Ali. I assume that there is no need to introduce Imam Ali. Irfan is knowledge, but it is used in the sense of a special esoteric knowledge (Ma’rifah) of God and the way toward him. The knowledge sought by those who follow the way of Irfan is ultimately knowledge of God. The term Irfan is also used for the path that leads to this knowledge, as well as the theoretical speculation on theological topics based on the knowledge gained by those who have advanced on this path. Sometimes the term Sufism (Tasawwuf) is used in a manner synonymous to Irfan.

    http://www.islamicinsights.com/religion/clergy-corner/the-irfan-of-imam-ali.html

    When Omar become the second Caliph, he had a Jew for an adviser. The very first thing he did upon becoming Caliph was to use sword to spread Islam. This sword was used to take the Jewish revenge on the Persia. The Persian army was defeated and Princes Shahrbānū (or Shehr Bano) (as) was taken as a war criminal and prisoner. Omar’s son wanted to marry her as she was taken as a slave. Imam Ali (as) intervened and paid for her freedom. Later on Imam Hussain (as) son of Imam Ali asked her for marriage and she accepted. The rest of the nine Imams of Shia are from Hussain and Shehr Bano.

    Iran was a Sunni country until the 15th century!

  79. @peterAUS

    You sure that numbers and time work for (non-nomenklatura) Russians there?

    They face much the same problems with Islam as the West but they seem to handle it better. But numbers and time works best for the Muslims, at least given the recent trends in population demographics.

  80. Saker if Islam is so benign as you say, why does China feel the need to detain 1 Million Uighurs? Why did Myanmar expel its muslims? Time and time again, Islam comes in conflict with host nations, wherever it goes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  81. zimriel says:

    “Pack mentality is deeply embedded in our DNA. The issue is defining the pack.”

    And all I hear from The Saker is “I’m not part of your pack”.

    Fine. Then, The Saker – you need to go back.

  82. Wally says:
    @Emblematic

    Indeed, hapless Saker The Indoctrinated said:

    “Only then came the man who did even more than anybody else to destroy Europe, and he was a famous European nationalist: Adolf Hitler.
    No wonder when you consider the price Russia paid for crushing about 80% of Hitler’s forces (but not before the latter killed 27+ million Russians and declared us all to be “subhuman”).”

    – Germans fighting back and resisting the destruction of European culture were/are not the slightest bit responsible for ‘destroying Europe’.
    i.e.:

    “Hitler will have no war, but he will be forced into it, not this year but later…”
    – Jew Emil Ludwig, Les Annales, June 1934

    – Hitler never referred to others as being “sub-human”.

    recommended:
    Roosevelt Conspired to Start World War II in Europe: http://www.unz.com/article/roosevelt-conspired-to-start-world-war-ii-in-europe/
    Germany Did Not Start World War II, by Paul Craig Roberts:
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/germany-did-not-start-world-war-ii/
    The Soviet Union Conspired [with FDR] to Foment World War II and Infiltrate the U.S. Government, By John Wear: https://codoh.com/library/document/6807/?lang=en
    “Master Race” / Herrenrasse / Herrenvolk – a deliberate mistranslation: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12400

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  83. Wally says:
    @Bournite

    Muslims were indeed very active in the slave trade, but the mother of all slavers were, you guessed it:

    Black researcher, Dr. Tony Martin, let’s us know who the prime sellers & owners of slaves really were, Jews.
    Dr. Tony Martin – The Jewish Role in the African Slave Trade

    plus: African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade
    Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders’ ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade
    “African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today.”

  84. PPB says:

    There are three things I would want to maintain to the greatest degree possible: Freedom of religion, including freedom of no religion if that happens to be someone’s preference; freedom of speech (with the standard existing prohibitions against libel and slander, inciting violence, etc.), and equal rights (not to be confused with special rights) for minorities.

    If Muslims attain significant demographic and political power in my country, but are able to honor the above precepts, I have no problem with that. Conversely, if any non-Muslim contingents are unwilling to do so, I do have an issue with that.

    That much is simple. And of course there are strains within Islam, as there are within all religions. There are also individual Muslims who are more able than others to embody and express the higher and nobler aspects of Islam, the same being true of the adherents of other religions. What these differences point to is the need for a controlled immigration policy that not only assesses how many immigrants of differing skill levels a society can readily assimilate, but one that also has the ability, crudely stated, to filter the humans from the riff-raff regardless of their national, racial or religious identity.

    Finally, how Muslim-majority nations choose to conduct their own internal affairs is none of my business.

    • Replies: @PPB
    , @AnonFromTN
  85. @Sya Beerens

    18 million Muslims…

    Obviously you didn’t check the map of Europe in the article (from the Pew Research Center), showing the number of Muslims per country.

  86. Icy Blast says:

    I didn’t know until now that The Saker was such a fierce hater of Christianity. Fascinating.

  87. When you propose to expel Muslims from France, are you seriously contemplating the deportation of almost 6 million people?

    We are informed that the Nazis, in their brief time on the historical stage, killed over 6 million Jews and other people.

    So, yes, I can easily contemplate the deportation of 6 million Muslims from France. Whether that would be wise or not, I can not say. Wise or not, it is up to the French to make the decision, and to bear the consequences thereof.

  88. TKK says:
    @Seraphim

    He’s a troll because he parsed the foundational texts of Christianity and demonstrated clear contradictions?

    No- he’s not a troll. He is a literalist. He has every right to a view an individual as absurd who believes in:

    talking snakes
    fire messages from bushes
    raining frogs
    people disappearing in heavenly chariots
    a man living in the belly of a large fish
    demons being cast into a group of hogs ( we are legion)
    food multiplication miracles
    virgins giving birth
    reanimation of corpses

    And that’s just the preview reel.

    Add in an omniscient, all knowing man/ghost/ Being who can number the hairs on your head, but who asks a man to slaughter his own son, watches infants raped and a million other nightmares across time and space….. and never intervenes.

    Finally- the way to show allegiance to this narrative is to eat bread and wine, and pretend it is the flesh of the man/ ghost/ Being. Catholics believe you actually are- transubstantiate – eating flesh and drinking blood.

    To believe these ideas- by necessity- is to remove any semblance of scientific or rationale analysis.

    Can wisdom be gained from these scattered texts, written by many authors over 2000 years ago- largely on hearsay-by men who had to scan the skies with fear to help them understand weather patterns and natural calamities? Sure.

    Proverbs lays out excellent advice about living peacefully in close quarters with a nomadic group in the desert.

    However, for you to label his personhood and his critical and accurate reading of these texts as
    “insane, stupid and malevolent” proves his point beautifully.

    Christians respond with histrionic hatred to any application of cold logic to their belief system. As do Muslims and Jews.

    A society that is civilized should be allowed to question, even with scorn, these creation narratives.

    Your post is the rotting paver stone, the initial insane arrogance, that leads to killing someone over a cartoon.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Troll: Seraphim
  89. @Chet Bradley

    A prior question is who gets to decide what is done to address this matter. If past experience is a reliable guide then the answer is not you and me. The current rules of political discourse mean that we simply are not free to discuss the subject. Would that it were not so, but it is.

  90. Ghali says:

    Unfortunately, “Deconstructing Islamophobia” lacks rigours and critical analysis. It ignores the Zionists and Jews influence on Western political and media establishments in demonising Islam and Muslims.

    Islamophobia is a Zionist-Jewish tool carefully designed to demonise Muslims and foment fear among European-American populations. Look at how the anti-racism Jeremey Corbyn is being attacked by the pro-Israel Western media and wealthy Jews while his counterpart, the Islamophobic and racist Bruce Johnson is praised and supported by the same wealthy Jews and Western media.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @AnonStarter
  91. Hibernian says:
    @Bournite

    Using the phrase “Latin Papists,” as a substitute for the word “Catholics,” in the current year, in an article written generally in good English, bespeaks a certain attitude.

  92. The Saker? Might as well call him (and yes I just assumed his gender…) The Strawman. Any honest and direct analysis of Islam will reveal nothing but cultural oppression and a loss of everything we understand as the sovereignty of the individual. So, The Strawman sets up the bad old westerners as the basis for a facile, tut-tut compare/contrast and here we go, down the road to a short-term confused ambiguity and long-term destruction of our culture, our civilization.

    To really understand Islam, just substitute ‘totalitarian’ and all will be clear. And of course, I mean ‘real’ totalitarian, and not the boogie-man of the liberal left. But no one, at least no one sane is suggesting we kill anyone. Deport? Well, yeah, to whatever extent possible. And do it according to who has immigrated legally and who has not.

    Maybe the best choice is to take the Dalia Lama at his word and conclude, “Europe is for Europeans..” and do everything we can to a. give temporary (repeat, temporary) support to those who have immigrated and b. meanwhile, rebuild the areas of the Middle East we have, in our folly, destroyed and caused much of this immigration in the first place. Make it an area that’s desirable or at least tolerable to live in.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  93. Antares says:

    1.2 million moslims in my tiny country means that they are part of a hugh invasion.

  94. So here is my first question: are you seriously advocating taking on and declaring your intention of aggressively dealing with a religion which has a total potential of 1.8 billion people closing ranks and resisting your aggression?

    Sounds better than being subject to them. But I guess you prefer the easy way into oblivion.

    • Agree: Julian of Norwich
  95. joannf says:
    @peterAUS

    I stopped reading the saker after his last mental ejaculation here.
    Burned.
    This time, I only dived into the comments.
    And what do I see ;))
    Is this ‘guy’ even a person, or rather an instance.
    Submit to Islam, accept the inevitability of the Socialist Untermenschen, ooga-chugga !
    It is the future, evolution be damned.
    Because Socialism and Islam go together well, the Elites understood that awhile ago.
    Islam has great experience with keeping humanity static for 1500 years. Success !
    It’s a step forward towards what all genomes crave : the smallest common denominator.
    No change. ‘Intelligence’ isn’t working, an evolutionary freak.
    BELIEFS are the thang. Peace out…

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  96. NUFAN says:

    “…courtesy of the collective West who turned these parts of the world into shitholes in the first place!).”

    The Saker: “Damn these white European people destroying Wakanda and shiiiieeeet!”

  97. Moi says:
    @peterAUS

    Don’t show your bigotry and ignorance. Allow me to set you straight on a few points about Islam/Muslims.

    *You’ll never hear a Muslim utter a negative word about Christ or any of the OT prophets. In fact, Muslim revere them. BTW, Muslims are more respectful of Christ than many Christians.

    *You haven’t a clue what Sharia is. Interestingly, the 10 Commandments are part of Sharia. Sharia means the straight path (as in straight and narrow) in terms of morality.

    *Prophet Muhammad said that heaven lies at the feet of the mother. Anything close to that in the OT/NT? Nyet!!! It also gave women property rights from Day 1.

    *According to Islam, God has sent his prophets to ALL peoples over time. So some African shamans could have been prophets and so are to be respected. Again, anything like that in OT/NT. Nyet, nyet!!

    *There is a beautiful verse in the Quran that goes something like this: God could have made you one people, but he has made you into nations and tribes so you could learn from one another. What you think about that…???

    *Islam means self-surrender to the one Creator. Something all major religions support.

    Bye, and get lost.

  98. Moi says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    Right, the Native American made the same mistake by extending a helping hand to whitey.

    • Agree: Olivier1973
  99. The crazy Muslims will self identify when ALL welfare is terminated for everyone. Those Muslims that work for a living and try to get ahead aren’t the ones stabbing people. It’s the Muslims on welfare with time on their hands to get deeper into their violent version of Islam that are the problem.

    Also, the police and Justice System in general, protect the violent in the society. They lock them up where victims can’t get at them and then release them to commit more crimes after the tax paying population has spent ridiculous sums to house, feed, clothe and tend to their medical care. There should be no prisons. Everyone should be armed.

    For non violent crime, restitution needs to be made and that can’t happen from behind bars. For violent crime, the victim should kill the perp on the spot if possible or shoot him in the head once apprehended, thus ending the life of a predator and eliminating the damaged DNA from the society permanently. No need for useless cops.

    • Replies: @tumi
  100. To own a slave is to be a slave

    Racial, religious and ethnic supremacists
    are always blind to their own faults

    . . . liberalism results in rescuing strangers who may one day rise up
    and kill you. It keeps you consistent with your abstract moral precepts
    but lowers your chances of survival by orders of magnitude . . .

    in memory of an honest man
    G. Patrick Flanagan
    1944-2019

    Wondering why you seldom, if ever find such great articles as the one linked to below on TUR?
    https://johnkaminski.org/index.php/john-kaminski-american-writer-and-critic-2/231-the-tar-baby

    • Replies: @George F. Held
  101. PPB says:
    @PPB

    I might have added that my ideal is nevertheless for each nation to retain its own cultural center of gravity, even for each region within a nation to have its own flavor. This doesn’t imply a refusal to host minority populations from elsewhere, but only to the extent that these can function harmoniously with, and don’t seek to undermine, the culture and institutions of the majority. For such minority populations to speak their own language at home, cook their own food, practice their own religion and observe their own holidays isn’t problematic otherwise. In most cases some degree of cross-pollination will naturally occur between neighboring cultures– it always has– and can often be fruitful.

  102. “Expel 1/3 of 1.8 billion Muslims”

    You surely do not mean to expel them to non Muslim lands, therefore, do you mean to expel them within their own lands, i.e. internal displacement just like Iraq, Libya and Syria model? Not so sure what you are saying there, hoss!

  103. The Saker’s only loyalty is to Christian Orthodoxy; he has none to European culture, religion and people in general. He is not so much a traitor as a fool. He should be forced to live among Muslims outside of Europe, for ultimately he is as barbarous as they.

  104. Did Catholics and Protestants really have power to guide the policies that bombed Serbia and talked up Muslim “holocaust” in Europe? Do you really believe that the corrupt Bubba Clinton was taking his marching orders from either the British queen or the Vatican? Who wants Muslims to flood Europe and therefore to do all it can to undermine defenseless Serbs against the Balkan Muslims? Find the money trail and you will have the clue…

  105. Pandour says: • Website

    There you go again,starting as always on the wrong foot,and still you have no shame.The Crusades were a response to Islamic aggression.In AD 632,Egypt,Palestine,Syria,Asia Minor,North Africa,Spain,Italy and the islands of Sicily,Sardinia and Corsica were all Christian territories.By AD 732 the Christians had lost Egypt,Palestine,Syria,North Africa,Spain,most of Asia Minor and southern France to Islamic invasion.The Christian communities of Arabia were entirely destroyed in or shortly after 633 ,when Christians and Jews were expelled from the peninsula.As far as the Serbs were concerned,after the battle of Kosovo in 1389,the Serbs became faithful vassals of the Ottoman emipre.In the battle of Nicopolis in 1396 some 1,500 Serbian cavalry in Ottoman service turned the tide of the battle against Christian forces at the decisive moment and sealed the fate of much of Southeastern Europe for centuries.If not for Muslim incursions over centuries,the population of Croatia would today be 14 million,not four million,for example.Moslem invaders carried off several million European inhabitants to slavery.If not for the Catholic church,the decisive defeat of the Islamic hordes in the Mediterranean at the battle of Lepanto in 1571 would never have happened.

  106. Osama says:

    ” ISLAM IS NOT A NEW RELIGION but THE CULMINATION AND FULFILLMENT of the same basic truth that ALLAH (God) revealed through all His prophets to every people. As there is only ONE GOD, there is only One Belief. In Islam, every prophet preached the same core beliefs, the Oneness of God. In fact, Islam is the preserved pure religion of all prophets sent by ALLAH. Did you know that the word “Islam” means the complete submission and obedience to Allah (God). Therefore, all prophets were indeed MUSLIMS because they were true submitters to the will of the Creator. He is the Only One worthy of worship having no partners, no associates, no sons, no daughters and no one whom He must consult and no one or anything which has any comparison with Him. On their own, human beings cannot be fully guided, understand God, the hereafter, or the purpose of life. Accordingly, God communicated to mankind by selecting prophets who would deliver his message to the rest of humanity.
    To convey the purpose of existence to humans, God sent clear and practical instructions through his prophets. Muslims believe that a prophet was selected for every NATION at some point in its history. Muslims believe there were about 124,000 prophets in all, of whom only 25 are mentioned by name in the Quran, the holy book of Islam. So to make things clear as crystal water, prophet Muhammed, is just the final messenger sent by God, and the Quran is just the Final or Last Testament. Thus the religion that God established for all mankind is Islam, which means to submit or surrender. Islam is not limited to the revelation that was sent to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, but was also the message of previous prophets. Therefore, the Qurʾān teaches that previous religions, such as Christianity and Judaism, in their authentic and original forms were based on the Oneness of God. Therefore each prophet conveyed the same consistent divine message of worshiping ONE GOD (i.e worshiping the Creator not the creation) and living a morally upright life. However, the message of these prophets was lost, abandoned, or changed over time, and only parts of the original message remained intact. So God sent Muhammad (pbuh) in the 7th century C.E as the final messenger this time TO ALL OF HUMANITY in order to RESTORE that divine message of all prophets. As many ignorants claim, Muhammad did not bring a new message or even copied previous beliefs to make his own thing, but conveyed the same message as previous prophets. “Allah” is a unique term with no plural and no gender. So Muslims believe in and worship the same One God that the previous Jews and Christians worshiped (Allah = Eloi = Elohim) and they are obligated to believe in and honor all the prophets, and to testify that PROPHETHOOD HAS BEEN COMPLETED with the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
    In the chapter of the Qurʾān titled “The Prophets” (Al-Anbiyā’) it states: “We did not send any messenger before you (Oh Muhammed) except that We revealed to him that, There is no deity except Me, so worship Me.” (Qurʾān 21:25). In this same chapter, we also find God describing all prophets as belonging to the same religion: “Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me” (Qurʾān 21:92). “Say, ‘We believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and all the prophets by their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we devote ourselves to Him.’” (Quran, 2:136)
    “Truly, the religion with Allah (God) is Islam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, then surely, Allah is Swift in calling to account.” [The Noble Quran 3:19]
    “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” [The Noble Quran 3:85]
    (1) Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) was a MUSLIM: “Ibrahim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Hanifa (Islamic Monotheism – to worship none but Allah Alone) and he was not of Al-Mushrikun (the disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, idolaters, polytheists, pagans, etc.)” [The Noble Quran 3:67]

    “And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob)(saying), “O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islâm (as Muslims – Islamic Monotheism).” [The Noble Quran 2:132]
    (2) Prophet Joseph (peace be upon him) was a MUSLIM:
    Joseph said: “My Lord! You have indeed bestowed on me of the sovereignty, and taught me something of the interpretation of dreams – the (Only) Creator of the heavens and the earth! You are my Wali (Protector, Helper, Supporter, Guardian, God, Lord) in this world and in the Hereafter. Cause me to die as a Muslim (the one submitting to Your Will), and join me with the righteous.” [The Noble Quran 12:101]
    (3) Prophet Jacob and his sons were MUSLIMS:
    “Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya’qub (Jacob)? When he said unto his sons, “What will you worship after me?” They said, “We shall worship your Ilah (God – Allah), the Ilah (God) of your fathers, Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma’il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), One Ilah (God), and to Him we submit (in Islam, Muslims).” [The Noble Quran 2:133]
    (4) Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) and his disciples were MUSLIMS:
    “Then when ‘Isa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: “Who will be my helpers in Allah’s Cause?” Al-Hawariun (the disciples) said: “We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah).” [The Noble Quran 3:52]
    “And when I (Allah) revealed to Al-Hawarieen (the disciples)(of ‘Isa (Jesus)) to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: “We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims.” [The Noble Quran 5:111].

  107. Anonymous[940] • Disclaimer says:

    1.9 billion Muslims worldwide. Muslim countries stretch from North Africa through the Middle East and in to the Pacific. There are Muslim democracies and there have been Muslim female heads of state.

    The primary source of Muslim extremism is Saudi Arabia. The US and the Saudis fostered and weaponized this to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. But the networks still exist today. (For more info I recommend Davidson’s book “Shadow Wars”)

    To think all Muslims are terrorists is ignorance and fear of the other. Plus some western propaganda to create a needed external enemy and/or justify our military adventures.

  108. Your suggested right wing solution:
    1. Convert 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
    2. Expel 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
    3. Murder 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims and, just to cover our bases

    Was indeed interesting. I would note that option number 3 is currently the most used and effective as the west has murdered several million and is currently starving millions more with their drones, bombs, and sanctions. All in the name of profit and power.

    Most interesting essay.
    Thanks

  109. Anonymous[940] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ghali

    Agree. Zionists, oil men, and military industrial complex all benefit from the demonization of Muslims.

    • Replies: @Hegar
  110. Onebornfree says: • Website

    The organized [i.e. state-controlled] religion Scam:

    Regards,onebornfree

  111. anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    [Upon entering paradise] “everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh.”

    Remember Islam is extremely iconoclastic and there is no symbolism here, it has to be taken literally.

    The Almighty One has taken upon Himself to protect the Holy Quran. He says thus;

    Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We will be its guardian. : Holy Quran 15:9

    The blessed words of the Holy Quran, and the collection of hadiths recorded through word-of-mouth (which admittedly are supposed to be verified… by fallible humans), are not the same.

    There are very clear hadiths, and not so clear hadiths. We true monotheists focus on the clear ones, which happen to be the most important, while conceding that we do not fully understand the unclear parts.

    You Islamophobes can waste time focusing on such obscure ones, which will lead you nowhere in countering Islam. Btw, I have no idea about this particular hadith you quote, because my monogamous mind doesn’t spend time fantasising about houris… perhaps these are matters which are more important for promiscuous westerners.

    The only thing which matters to me is… the reward for true monotheism and a reasonably righteous life (well, I try 🙂 ), Paradise, will be an unimaginably beautiful place… that should be enough.

    Westerners quoting such obscure hadiths with glee, like they have discovered the defining method by which Islam will finally be conquered, sound quite pathetic. You do understand that all faiths have such sayings which could make one go, “what does that mean?”

    But, with regards to your own words, I agree, Islam is very literal in the core aspects of its theology. Take for example, the following verses, which form the core of Islam, and the basis of its truest and purest monotheism;

    Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”: Holy Quran 112

    We take these simplest of words describing our Creator, very literally, which is in stark contrast to other pagan faiths depending on various mind-bending metaphors to give meaning to their theologies… how can God be 3-in-1? oh easy, that can be explained with ice/water/vapour, or, 3 dimensional geometry, or *scratches head*

    Cursed pagan Islamophobes should keep the hadiths aside for now, and put your most brilliantly evil minds into conquering those 4 verses first. At a spiritual level, as long as we muslims have those 4 verses on our side, we are basically unconquerable. Remember that. 😀

  112. The fact you’re using The Enemy’s bullshit term “islamophobia” says all we need to know.

    It’s self-evident: if every mohammedan vanished tomorrow the world would be a better place.

  113. Anonymous[320] • Disclaimer says:
    @Archimedes

    Right. He’s an obvious Russophile but still somehow incapable of seeing the big picture. His favourite country’s history – up to today – is filled with nothing but bloodshed and misery at the hands of Muslims and Jews.

    It’s amazing how blind some people can be. Despite (or because of) his best intentions, he’ll always be a victim because he can’t figure out that everyone else is pushing their own, tribal interests.People like him are born losers because they don’t play the tribal game and don’t understand that others are playing and wining.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  114. Agent76 says:

    May 6, 2003 “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” – A Summary Blueprint of the PNAC Plan for U.S. Global Hegemony

    Some people have compared it to Hitler’s publication of Mein Kampf, which was ignored until after the war was over.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm

    The Project for the New American Century is a neoconservative think tank based in Washington, D.C. that focused on United States foreign policy. Founders: Dick Cheney
    Date founded: 1997

    Nov 22, 2010 Project for the New American Century

    Sep 26, 2003 57 Years Ago: U.S. and Britain Approved Use of Islamic Extremists to Topple Syrian Government

    BBC reports that – in 1957 – the British and American leaders approved the use of Islamic extremists and false flag attacks to topple the Syrian government.

    http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/sep/27/uk.syria1?cat=politics&type=article

  115. GMC says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    I like reading Saker and I don’t always totally agree but enjoy his writings , also Taking in the refugees/people from a country that was brutally propagandized in the media and military, then bombing them back to the stone age is part of the deep state/nwo long range plans. Yes, it brings more cheap labor in, but it also gives the ignorant national public – more racism – which is pushed through the government controlled media. America’s and Europe’s societies have been manipulated for centuries by the Owners. Look at all the racism that was instilled on the Africans, Indians, Mexicans, Irish, Italians, Vietnamese, etc – it’s the Muslim’s turn this century. Some of the Muslims have figured this out and probably would have better communities and countries, had the West not – bomb the shit out of their countries. No one is bombing Vietnam anymore – their place is booming.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  116. Anon[344] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    For example, the whole doctrine of Jesus being the son of God is based on the notion of his supposed ressurection. A critical approach to the text without the bias of fanaticism will expose to the reader in a matter of an hour that the four accounts are different from each other and therefore, in the best case scenario not more than one of them could be true.

    I am not a Christian, but this is not true. Please just read the first two verses in the book of John:

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    As for contradictions in the Gospels, there are a few small contradictions relating to the timings of events, but they are not so terrible. General differences in the Gospels are usually not contradictory; they supplement one another. The contradictions are enough for me to doubt, but not enough for many Christians.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  117. Anon[344] • Disclaimer says:

    I suppose I generally agree with the Saker on this.

    One of the reasons I have renounced the alt-right movement was because of this reactionary, low-information, low-strategy right-wing stuff, such as Islamophobia.

    The reactionary sees Muslims moving in and sees liberals praising them, and starts writhing in Pain. He deludes himself into believing that Muslims are “BAD” in any and every way he can hardly make an argument for, in order to justify his fears and pains. If Muslims are “BAD,” you can resist their mass immigration. If they are “GOOD,” I guess you gotta suck it up and let them in, kind of like you do for Chinese people?

    The irony of it all is that the world sees us white males as “BAD,” (and many of us are/have been bad) and this will never change. What moral standing do we have, to proclaim judgment on Muslims? We have none. The entire exercise is a massive waste of time. Crazed right-wingers like us aren’t going to get progressives and white women to rethink tolerance of mass immigration because we declared certain immigrant groups to be “BAD.” It is a futile strategy.

    I was hoping that the “alt-right” would be a great venue for deeper philosophical criticism of modernity, and of multiculturalism itself, in a new, radical, impersonalized, objective way. I was also hoping that it would move past religion, anti-feminism, etc.

    But it has failed to be that. It is just reactionaries who have their right-wing preferences, terrorized by the anger and aggression of the liberals, reinforcing to other RW people that we want this and that; and who justify our getting what we want by insisting that the West is GOOD, and that people we oppose are BAD.

    It is basically, exactly what the RW has been for over one hundred years. And there is no reason to believe that this form of polemic will start succeeding now, of all times.

    I’m looking at you, PeterAUS.

  118. Sean says:

    Israel expelling the West Bank Palestinians (Muslim or not) is too much to hope for right now but it is becoming less unlikely. It would be the ultimate domino and expulsion of non European immigrant communities from Western Europe would become if not likely then less unthinkable.

    What Russia did in Syria led to a flood of refugees into the West. It will not be forgotten. Gaddafi thought he was indispensable and untouchable too. The EU thought Britain could not would not leave the EU.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/7973649/Gaddafi-Europe-will-turn-black-unless-EU-pays-Libya-4bn-a-year.html

    Gaddafi: Europe will ‘turn black’ unless EU pays Libya £4bn a year
    Col Muammar Gaddafi has warned that Europe runs the risk of turning “black” unless the EU pays Libya at least €5 billion (£4.1 billion) a year to block the arrival of illegal immigrants from Africa.

    By Nick Squires in Rome5:52PM BST 31 Aug 2010
    His remarks, made during a controversial three day visit to Italy, were condemned as “unacceptable blackmail” by Italian MPs, who likened the demand to the protection money that mafia gangs demand from businesses.

    Speaking at a ceremony in Rome while standing next to Silvio Berlusconi, Italy’s prime minister, Col Gaddafi, 67, said that unless his request for money was met, Europe would otherwise become “another Africa” as a result of the “advance of millions of immigrants”.

    “Tomorrow Europe might no longer be European and even black as there are millions who want to come in,” he said.
    “We don’t know if Europe will remain an advanced and united continent or if it will be destroyed, as happened with the barbarian invasions”.

    Gaddafi had an air force and army with heavy weapons (as did Assad). The West chose to nullify Gaddafi’s heavy weapons advantage, but did not send ground troops so if he had popular support and infantry he could have held onto the west of libya . But he had so little support among the population he had to hire black mercenaries to give him some infantry. A rag tag bunch of rebels from the sparsely populated interior of the country was able to roll into Tripoli and Gaddafi’s troops melted away.

    Eisenhower’s idea to save American taxpayers from subsiding the military industrial complex though defending Germany, by giving the Germans a finger on the Nato nuclear trigger terrified the Russian leadership. Khrushchev became frantic to prevent the re-run of Operation Barbarossa he expected once the Germans had a nuclear umbrella. When you hear the Saker boasting about the military might of Russia, remember that Khrushchev was there in 1941 and knew what a close run thing it was even though the Germany stopped in front of Smolensk for over a month, and were was fighting Britain at the same time (the air assets committed diverted to the Afrika Korps were substantial) . Also the British convoys were supplying the Soviet Union with fighter planes, excellent British clothing and boots, and superb tanks.

  119. Coming from a country with a long and at times bloody history of conflict over religious matters, I feel we should be wary of policies that risk a resurgence of such conflict.

    On the question of the place of Islam in Western countries, I would give primacy to the right of a people to govern itself and to freely decide its own future.

    Hence, if a nation decides to exclude any group from its enjoying the benefits of residence and citizenship, then it may do so. This is an absolute right and may be exercised for any reason.

    Further, there is no requirement for a nation to justify its decision to any outsider. It may simply say ‘We choose not to offer a place to people who live differently from ourselves’.

    Arguments about the rationality of such decisions are particularly unwelcome when offered by outsiders who mistakenly consider themselves our intellectual and moral superiors.

    • Replies: @ivegotrythm
  120. Pandour says: • Website
    @GMC

    What Muslim country would you like to live in and where do you live now.

  121. peterAUS says:
    @joannf

    I stopped reading the saker after his last mental ejaculation here.

    An experienced reader can get a feel of a material, the message if you will, just by fast skimming a paragraph or two. That’s my approach to the bulk of the articles and comments in this pub.

    These (Islam related) articles could point to certain thinkings within Kremlin. Russia IS a nuclear power, set on increasing conflict with The Empire and this, Islamic, element can influence all that.
    Just mentioning the idea of Orthodox-Muslim alliance could point to a certain reality, maybe even intention. Crazy, but could mean something. We’ll see.

    If there is one thing among alt-whatever world it’s simple lack of vision. What is that for the author, for example? Something like Russia now? Not even funny.
    Solution for increasing power of Islam in Europe? As you say

    …Submit to Islam…

    Crazy.

    As for

    ….the Elites understood that awhile ago…

    I’d go with the comment 73 here.

    I mean, we know what “they” are doing in Europe, why and how. As I said, those authors explained that much better than anyone in this pub could.

    What puzzles me a bit….do “they” really believe that, when Islam takes over, “they” will retain the control? I don’t think so.

    I believe “they” are using all tools at their disposal to destroy the native population in Europe. That’s primary objective. Islam is just a tool in a toolbox. “They” believe that when the objective is reached they’ll keep the control. Put the tool back in the toolbox.
    I don’t.

    • Replies: @joannf
  122. @Anon

    Good point. Noted chemist and professor of nanotechnology at Rice Univ, James Tour, explains (comment #49, video) how to an objective reader there in no contradiction in the Resurrection accounts in the four Gospels. There are differences in details, but these these are supplemental, not contradictory.

  123. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    The antichristian socialdemocratic globalist rulers of the EU have been extracting confiscatory taxes from the ruined european working middel classes for more than 40 years in order to give free subventions to non working aliens from all over the world , from Africa , Asia , America . Merkel imports moslems by the millions . Probably this is the end of West Europe .

  124. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Well , do you prefer this or Greta ?

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  125. @peterAUS

    Always the first, eh Aus? Always on the job. Ask for a raise.

  126. @Julian of Norwich

    You are too late by several hundred years.

    • Replies: @Julian of Norwich
  127. bjondo says:

    Thank you, @134.

    Israel/”Neocons” propaganda successful.

    5ds

  128. TKK says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    It’s the micro level-

    but I am sadly related by marriage to a woman as a 2nd cousin who literally is the size of a linebacker. Just repulsive. Short hair. Triple chin. Dominates my punk ass cousin (who is a cop).

    She gossips, leaves her dog outside in the cold, is a glutton, lazy and ignorant. Never cracks a book, never been further than Myrtle Beach

    – but knows it all.

    She is spiteful, hateful, petty and vicious. Behaviors like taking all the Chick Fil A tenders in her own container at a reunion- that she did not buy– before everyone has gone through the line.

    On her dirty SUV (the only car big enough to transport her) she has a huge sticker: JESUS LOVES THIS HOT MESS!!!

    • Replies: @bjondo
  129. Miggle says:
    @Bournite

    Sorry, but it was hard to take any of this article seriously once I came across the statement that Latin Papists were “the most advanced and experienced genociders in history”? No basis is presented for this highly dubious assertion. Taking into account the initial Islamic conquest, the conquest of Persia later, India, the sub-Saharan conquest, the African slave trade (including the untold carnage entailed in eunuch production), the bloodthirst along the Mediterranean by pirates of the Maghreb, and numerous other incidents, it seems difficult to dispute that Islam is the most deadly human entity ever invented. Hitler and the commies together didn’t rack up such a toll. I’m calling BS. Please prove me wrong if you can.

    Ha, ha. No basis? It’s historically well documented that the Popes martyred more Christians than all the Roman emperors put together. Why? Because they were followers of Christ, not followers of the Pope.

    From just the Western viewpoint, read Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. It is carefully historical. Also read of the Reformation in the Netherlands, where a Spanish king ruling that country massacred astronomical numbers of Christians. Why? Because they were not followers of the Pope.

    Is it a “highly dubious assertion” that there was a Thirty Years War? And why? Are there no records from the time? No books on the subject of the Reformation? No record of the fury of the pope at the time that the kings and princes had ended the war without his permission?

    Look at the gross dishonesty of one part of Christianity making “Catholic” it’s brand name. “Catholic” means Universal. The only Church. How can the Latin Church, after breaking with the Eastern Church, call itself that, perpetrate that clear falsehood?

    All done by excommunication, of course. The Pope excommunicates the Orthodox Church and all its members, so only the Papistical sect is the Church, which means they are the only, exclusively universal, Church.

    And the Popes didn’t martyr any Christians, because on excommunication they by definition ceased to be Christians, right?

    All about power.

    And all based on fraud. There is a passage in Matthew and a corresponding one in John, but critically different. Jesus asks the apostles “who do you think I am” and the first to pipe up is Simon bar-Jonah, who has the nickname Rock, who says, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God”. But of course all twelve apostles thought the same. And Jesus plays on the nickname, says “You are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church” but it is ambiguous. The rock on which the church is build is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. That is the “this” of “this rock”.

    Then in Matthew but not in John, a single passage in one book that had evolved, Jesus says God has abdicated to Rock, giving Rock the right to forgive sins for money.

    Oh, but God couldn’t foresee the future, could he? Didn’t guess that the “apostolic successors” (another fraud) of Simon bar-Jonah would engage in that fraud, the straw that broke Martin Luther’s back.

    And read Paul. In one of his books, or in Acts, he describes Peter being pulled into line by “they of the Circumcision”, a rock made from jelly in effect, and called Peter the apostle to the Jews and himself the apostle to the Gentiles.

    Monarchic bishops arose in response to the rise of Gnosticism, when bishop had previously only meant administrator.

    But they arose in Asia Minor before they did in Rome, at a time when in Roman a synod of presbyters was in charge.

  130. bjondo says:
    @TKK

    madeleine albright?
    roseanne?
    vicky nudelman?
    bwaba walters?
    seth rogen?

    one more clue.

    5ds

  131. It would appear that the majority of anti-Islam brigadiers are prepared to radically overhaul the current foundation of law upon which their respective governments are established. I imagine that once one religion is effectively proscribed, it should be a relatively simple matter to prohibit more, including any permutations of Christianity considered “subversive” to public order — revisiting the theater of the Thirty Years’ War, and such.

    Now this can hardly be regarded as a slippery slope fallacy when many of you are regularly appealing to medieval history as a means of comprehending motives in the modern world. After all, what’s good for the goose …

    I can hardly wait to see what kind of utopia you guys bring to fruition. Will it be similar to the ethos that prevailed following the Edict of Thessalonika, where all were compelled to follow one religion upon pain of death? Will we witness a revival of the Northern Crusades, wherein pagans will be made to submit to the authority of the Church? Or will some variety of neo-pagan ideology hold increasing sway over the occident, ever resistant to the ethical dictates of Christianity and relegating it to a constituency subordinated to an essentially fascist milieu?

    Oh, I don’t expect any of this to actually happen, of course. It is bemusing, however, to see some of you speak against “totalitarian” Islam on the one hand while advocating your own variety of totalitarian rule. I’d say bin Laden — or rather, the chimera of him we’ve all come to know and love — now owns the lot of you.

  132. Richard P says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    Democracy will not do

    The West — especially the United States — should abandon democracy in favor of Third Position or Christian Monarchy. Democracy is a Western, liberal ideology that embraces modernism and individualism. It’s elitist and mob rule as a minority controls the majority. Furthermore, it’s incompatible with ideologies that embrace Traditionalism over Modernism. Democracy breeds the blatant and cancerous individualism that Evola has warmed us about.

    Say what you’d like about Muslims, but at least Islam doesn’t give an inch to cultural Marxism. Conservatives haven’t conserved anything over the last 50 years in the United States — and the 1965 Immigration Act was the catalyst for the rapid societal decay that we’ve been experiencing.

  133. DinoN says:

    Islam is the only religion of GOD “ALLAH. All the rest are “ISM”, “ISH” etc.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  134. Yes, genocide, as a concept, was invented by the Papacy which was also the first to engage in it.

    NO. It was an invention of the Hebrews who later perfected it in Jew-Bolshevik Russia and then sponsored more of it in China.
    What is your problem?
    Why do you hate Catholicism so much?
    Islam murdered over 100 million Hindus under the Mughals.
    Islam spread from Arabia to Persia to Bactria and as far West as Spain. It wasn’t a love fest amigo. It has been the most violent ideology on the planet. Jews and Commies come a close second.
    Your reading of History is skewed and perfunctory.
    Back to the Books you Islamo-Judeophile.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  135. Medvedev says:

    Peaceful Muslims in Russia are Tatars (with IQ slightly higher than average Russian) and Bashkirs (with similar or slightly lower IQ). Those have prominent pro-Russian Muslim clergy and heavily supported by Moscow. There are 2 problems: high IQ Muslims have low fertility rates, millions of lower IQ Muslims are pouring in.
    Between 2002 and 2010 number of Russians declined by 4.2%, Tatars by 4.39% and Bashkirs by 5.31%

    Convert 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
    Expel 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims
    Murder 1/3rd of 1.8 billion Muslims and, just to cover our bases
    any combination and ratio of the three solutions above

    Dumb straw man argument.
    Those who you call ‘Islamophobes’ advocate for Muslims to stay in their own countries. And let them live peacefully. In other words, let them sort their own sh*t instead of coming to Western countries.

  136. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    You forego the word of God and Christianity for Maher, a satanist and member of nefarious groups including the child murdering red shoe club?
    All you’ve done is substituted believing in something good (morality and love) for something that is shit (leftism and modernity/Science/reason (ie. the self and self-worship).
    Smart choice.

    • Agree: Stonehands
  137. @Ilya G Poimandres

    “The Ummah needs the same medicine.”

    Probably true, but that medicine can’t include muslims being brought into Europe or the Americas. The most direct complaint against muslims being allowed to immigrate into the west is that they don’t fit in, don’t try to fit in, and insist on remaking their new home into a facsimile of their old home.

    Leaving islamic countries alone and stopping invasions, robberies of their resources and murders of their families is just a start. Healing for them needs to take place in their own lands. Moving them into the west is like treating their injuries with poison, and it will ruin the cultures of the west at the same time. They need to heal at home.

  138. Medvedev says:

    Compare results of Kazakhstan with just 18 million people with Arab countries or Pakistan
    2017
    Kazakhstan 1 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze
    Egypt 0 0 0
    Pakistan 0 0 1

    2018
    Kazakhtan 0 4 2
    Egypt 0 0 0
    Pakistan 0 0 0

    2019
    Kazakhstan 0 2 4
    Pakistan 0 0 1
    Egypt 0 0 0

    You wonder why Kazakh people are civilized? That’s not only oil or Russian/communist influence.
    https://new-iq-test.com/kazakhstan-average-iq.html

    Kazakh IQ might be slightly lower than Western European IQ. But they are more coherent, ethnocentric, without libtards promoting self-hatred like in White countries and cult of death. Quite the opposite, Nazarbayev promoted large, strong and healthy families and supported Kazakh people returning home from ex-USSR and China.
    Nowadays Kazakhstan fertility rate reaches 3 and more than million Kazakh people returned to their homeland. Take that Europe and US … instead of importing hordes of incompatible low IQ populations, wasting resources and welfare on them by suppressing fertility rates among native-born White people like US and Europe do … Kazakhstan imports and supports their own!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kazakhstan

    Last year alone 400 thousand children were born in Kazakhstan. Almost as many as in Italy, more than in Spain or Canada.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  139. FvS says:

    “Great civilizations are not murdered. They commit suicide.”

    The naiveté of some whites is astounding to me. At least, I hope it’s naiveté on Saker’s part and not malice or greed.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  140. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    I’m looking at you, PeterAUS.

    This caught my eye, so slogged through your comment, for a change.
    I think I get your angle. Not quite sure you get mine but that’s not important, because, true, at the moment guys like me are nothing.
    At the same time, guys like me do read history so we know that many times since Babylon guys who were nothing become quite something. We’ll see.

    You appear to be a thinking person and do appear, for the moment, civil in disagreement. Nice fellow in real life I am sure.
    So, here is something you could….COULD…think a bit sbout:

    …resist their mass immigration…..

    That’s the plan. The first, starting step.

    …What moral standing do we have…We have none…

    This is important. This is your fundamental error in this game/play. I won’t explain.

    And this too

    ….aren’t going to get progressives and white women to rethink tolerance of mass immigration…..

    Won’t explain it either.

    You could, if/when find appropriate…COULD….figure out why are those two above your, and your types, fundamental errors. Really fundamental.

    Hint:

    …insisting that the West is GOOD, and that people we oppose are BAD…

    No. Just insisting we want to preserve our way of life and do whatever….WHATEVER….to make it happen.

    Tell me: have you ever…ever…been in a serious streetfight (both in hospital…)? Simple question. “Yes” or “no”.
    If “yes”, well, maybe, just maybe, we could try to have a very short and brief debate here.

    ….us white males….

    qualifies you for a little effort there. You know, “skin color is the uniform” thing. Or, in your case, makes you a target.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  141. Medvedev says:

    Many people hail Canadian immigration system as a success. Because their immigrants on average are better off, don’t become welfare leaches as opposed to US, Sweden or Germany.

    Guess what happens when millions of immigrants are pouring into country like Canada, willing to work for less or live in crammed apartments to achieve ‘Canadian dream’? They compete for housing with native-born Canadians, they compete for jobs with native-born Canadians, they suppress living wages and boost competition. As a result, native-born Canadians either
    – leave expensive areas like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver to somewhere where living expenses and wages aren’t as high (population replacement)
    – or compete with swaths of immigrants, live in crammed apartments, postpone having children for the future … which as result lowers fertility rates.

  142. @Commentator Mike

    Everything you have described has been supported by two evil groups who have been allied for centuries: the Black Nobility (find a President that isn’t related to European royalty) and Jews (find any Western political leaders that aren’t beholden to them or to the latter group).
    The West and the Middle East has been pushed in certain directions by these groups who excel at divide et imperum.
    It’s not about money. They’ve had that for over a thousand years. It’s about playing god and being god like on Earth. It’s about having the power to make millions suffer (as in the Rothschild owned PG&E’s repeated ‘fires’ and ‘drought’ induced in California)
    They like to make people suffer and die. They laugh at it. They plan on depopulating this planet, via war, famine and disease to create an earthly god-like existence for themselves with a small group of low IQ servants.
    Why do you think they come after whitey so hard? We’re the ones who can figure this shit out and stop them.
    Search for ‘bernard interview’. He was a black banker interviewed by the Dutch media. He is the only Illuminatti member to ever be as open as he has been about what he did and what they do. His evidence, correlated to years of my own research, led me to believe he is credible. Only 8,000-8,500 people make real decisions on this planet. They have immense power and they all murder and rape because they are evil and they enjoy it. They hate us. We are scum to them. They will spare nothing. Not children, not animals, the weak, the sick or the elderly.
    If we do not act, instead of being misdirected and confused by bought and paid for shills like the Saker (a lying asshole if I’ve ever smelt one) we will be a footnote in history.
    Read what is on the Georgia Guidestones. No one admits to putting them up. But Bill Gates and his cunt wife run around fulfilling the wishes of these elites as he desperately tries to join their club.
    Sorry. I didn’t mean to preach at you. You inspired me actually.
    I just like putting these truths out because it took a lot of suffering to come to understand all of this and if it helps anyone to know our real predicament then we are closer to a collective awareness of our internal cancer as a species: that is, that a small minority of murderous, hateful, Luciferian psychopaths intend on killing most of our species off.
    Yes, they worship Satan. Yes, they rape, kill and eat children and adults as part of disgusting ‘religious’ sacrifices.
    No, these are not ‘conspiracy theories’ (a CIA disinformation term invented in 1957).
    Yes, there is a ton of evidence. I have collected and watched hours upon hours of witness statements from all over the planet. It would be impossible for people to make up these stories and tell them. They are too genuine with nothing to gain and only humiliation for coming forward. IOW, I have proof and have documented this.
    The number of people who are involved in this is quite small. There is not a pandemic. There has, however, been a determined effort to unleash pure Evil on this planet via the opening of portals to other dimensions. Yes, this has been documented and includes classified U.S. govt documents that go back to the 1940’s.
    We are in a real bind and a bullshit criticism of ‘Islamaphobia’ by an idiot like the Saker is laughable. Islamaphobia is a psychological and territorial operation to create social disorder, weaken Western societies and increase the chance of conflict within and between the West and Islamic countries.
    None of this shit just ‘happens’. For those in the West to want an end to Islamic immigration and proper border controls is only rational. An immigration moratorium is not an extreme postion, it is, in fact, a rational and sane position. The insanity is the continued influx of foreigners who will not integrate. We all know this. It is rational not ‘racist’ to say so. We all know our own Western elites, in league with the Jew and Satan, have betrayed us. That is obvious.
    It is time we in the West brought our political systems to heal, our Jews under control and our societies working for the benefit of the people NOT the 8,000 SCUM.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  143. @DinoN

    Islam isn’t actually a religion. It’s a political system with its own structured law, concealed inside a death cult that demands total subjugation of all humanity. It’s easy to see how you might mistake it for a religion, though.

    • Agree: Sbaker
    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  144. Seraphim says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    The problem with Catholicism is that it became increasingly Judaized over the centuries. Papism is the first form of Protestantism, this “pork eating Judaism”, how it was characterized by Heinrich Heine, who knew something (he was a cousin of Karl Marx).
    Papacy did not ‘invent genocide’, of course, but it itself at the head of the fight against the Apostolic Church as it was created by Jesus Christ.

  145. Article is totally chaotic. Saker is trying to explain everything and ends up explaining nothing.
    And also Saker is totally omitting main factors that are and were playing part in development of present condition.
    But than we have chaos in the world so then chaos article is appropriate.

    • Agree: Olivier1973
    • Disagree: AnonStarter
  146. peterAUS says:
    @FvS

    The naiveté of some whites is astounding to me. At least, I hope it’s naiveté on Saker’s part and not malice or greed.

    The word “whites” doesn’t sit well with the author. So…..I’d go for malice and greed, in this case.

  147. Art says:

    Looking at Egypt, there is clearly a problem within Islam. There is an element of Islam that the Muslim people do not want. The people of Egypt would rather have a secular military dictatorship, then Sharia Law. Islam’s problem is that most Muslims do not want to be forced to live by Sharia. When Sharia Law is applied by a Muslim state, modernity is squelched.

    Clearly there are dark parts of Islam – it sanctions old world harshness, coercive force, and annihilation – it is anti personal freedom.

    Can Islam exist without the full implantation of Sharia Law? Can Islam exist without all of humanity being Muslim? Clearly it is essential that Islam comes to grips with the dark parts of itself.

    Muslims must modernize. As good neighbors, the rest of humanity must help them.

    p.s. We in America, can help by not killing Muslims every day of the week – year in and year out for the 17 years straight.

    p.s. 9/11 must be over.

  148. joannf says:
    @peterAUS

    You’re correct, destroy Europe and downgrade the US – to be brief about it.
    As to Islam, they probably think they can control it
    Think the Arab Nationalists like Nasser, the Assads etc… and most Muslims really are only superfluously religious, not in a missionary sens at all. I know a few. They will also degenerate (even more).
    But it doesn’t really matter what happens to Europe as long as it’s junked and humiliated.
    It’s a Morgenthau Plan.
    Basically vengeance for coming up tops of the Chosen in history, without being chosen.
    Capital crime.
    It’s hardly imaginable that an ‘intelligent species’ would act in such ways…
    But this is what our ‘Best and Brightest’ are obviously up to.

  149. @Wally

    Hitler started World War II. Barbarossa was quite possibly the stupidest gamble a nation ever made. It was clear to the Germans in October 1941 that they had failed. Only a capitulation by Russia that fall would do. Ironically, at the same time with all roads to Moscow open and undefended, Stalin was considering throwing in the towel. He had Beria send peace feelers to Hitler. Hitler rebuffed them. Stalin changed his mind.

    For the next three and a half years Hitler betrayed Germany. Hitler is responsible for the destruction visited on Germany.

    A.J.P. Taylor and David Irving are just plain wrong. Get over it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  150. Hitler destroyed Europe narrative is I guess plausible, if you leave out basically every detail leading up to the second world war. Also the US cant close its borders and you cede that this is bad, but at same time say we should welcome brown Christians with open arms to save the west? Neat my dude. What alt righter wants to take on China and Russia? What alt righter is excessively engaging in Islamaphobia? Everyone knows Zionists have created this issue. I have no problem with Islam as long as they are in Islamic countries

  151. It’s all beside the point.

    “Muslim” populations are relatively more inbred, thus tribal, and highly prolific. Their culture selects for group conformity, ours for individuality.

    Islam today is mainly an afterthought, an ex post facto justification for the filling up of space and the pushing out of weaker conspecifics.

    They’re not a threat because of some bombings. They’re a threat because they’re numerous, usually less conscionable, and because our peoples are weak.

    It doesn’t even matter if we submit. They’re going to predominate either way.

    • Replies: @anon
  152. With either branch of the Abrahamic religion (Judaism & Islam) being fully as destructive to Western Civilization as the other, ejecting and banning both groups would be the 1st step toward restoring social and political stability. As the financers and leaders of the Cultural Revolution, forced racial integration, the banning of prayer and display of Christian symbols in public places, politically correct speech, mandated equality of races and sexes where none by nature exist, Jews are entirely to blame for most, if not all social unrest in the Western world.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @anon
  153. ISLAM AGAINST TERRORISM •
    1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
    2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

    [MORE]

    3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”
    4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national jurisconsult.
    5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
    6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
    7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
    8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
    9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]
    10. The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims. I wrote elsewhere, “Dangerous falsehoods are being promulgated to the American public. The Quran does not preach violence against Christians.
    Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”
    In other words, the Quran promises Christians and Jews along with Muslims that if they have faith and works, they need have no fear in the afterlife. It is not saying that non-Muslims go to hell– quite the opposite.
    When speaking of the 7th-century situation in the Muslim city-state of Medina, which was at war with pagan Mecca, the Quran notes that the polytheists and some Arabian Jewish tribes were opposed to Islam, but then goes on to say:
    5:82. ” . . . and you will find the nearest in love to the believers [Muslims] those who say: ‘We are Christians.’ That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.”
    So the Quran not only does not urge Muslims to commit violence against Christians, it calls them “nearest in love” to the Muslims! The reason given is their piety, their ability to produce holy persons dedicated to God, and their lack of overweening pride.
    (For a modernist, liberal interpretation, see this pdf file, “Jihad and the Islamic Law of War.”

    https://www.clearquran.com

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  154. Islamophobia is the bane of the West.

    In Europe, they can’t complain about non-white immigrants, so instead they complain about Islam. Because the powers-that-be want to be able to attack Christianity, they have to keep criticism of religion legal. So Europeans who want to complain about North African and Middle Eastern (NAME) and Pakistani immigrants complain about Islam instead.

    In America it’s must the same but with a different twist. The only white people you are allowed to like are Jews, and the only non-white people you are allowed to hate are Muslims. The fact that it has more to do with race than religion was illustrated when Ted Cruz flipped off a bunch of Middle Eastern Christians to side with white Ashkenazi Jews in Israel.

    You can easily tell what is going on when you realize there are only two groups of people not allowed to have a country: Palestinians, in Palestine, and white people, anywhere on earth.

    The same “counter-jihad” types who complain about Muslim rape gangs in Rotherdam have been very quick to explain away Jeffrey Epstein. Counter-Jihadist like Lion of the Blogosphere, David Cole – the two dozen hasbara Jews that comment on Unz.com everyday – have gone out of their way to say “the girls like it, they were willing,” etc. They are usually too smart to say, “hey they were just shiksas.”

    And of course Islamophobia is needed to keep America fighting Israel’s wars. American were too cowardly to call “bullshit” on 9/11, so here were are.

  155. Islam is a political totalitarian ideology. The word “islamophobia” was created by the islamists. Like all religions islam is a drug (opium).

    1.8 billions muslims: what a lie! Even if counting all the babies it is impossible to arrive to this number. In Algeria if the islamic front would have succeeded to take power, a massive emigration of intellectuals would have followed.

  156. @Richard P

    Say what you’d like about Muslims, but at least Islam doesn’t give an inch to cultural Marxism.

    True, and that’s why our globalist elites are using wahabism to undermine the Muslim world. Wahabism, like cultural Marxism, erodes regional, cultural, and linguistic identities of Muslim people. It is Wahabism that destroyed the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan when those statues stood through 1000 years of Muslim rule before the Taliban. It is Wahabism that destroyed various historic buildings in Iraq when those pagan structures stood unmolested through 1000 years of Muslim rule before ISIS. Wahabism subverts Islam in the same way as Cultural Marxism subverts the west. So as you can see, muslims aren’t faring much better than the west in protecting their cultural heritages.

  157. @Anon

    Much wisdom to your comment. The answer to world strife, I believe, is not to transcend religion, but that religion transcend interest groups.

    Jesus said love your enemies. I believe in universal love combined with non-interference. Western powers should remove their militaries from Muslim lands; cease their bombing campaigns; eliminate funding for such; and cancel intel groups responsible for covert regime change operations and false flags. The West should begin to act as brother nations among nations and not lord it over others. There is only one Lord: God, Father, Creator, and Lover of all, and we are all His children.

  158. @Tel LIE vised 911 EvangeLIED

    Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an.

    Please, please, go preach that lie to isil or al nosra in Syria. You will be quite welcome for sure. And we would be rid of you. Definitively.

  159. @Art

    /it is anti personal freedom/

    Not so, but I understand how one might imagine this when they rely upon the predominant take of Islam proffered by western mainstream media as well as “alternative” news outlets.

    Muslims — practicing ones that is — strive to maintain a constant consciousness of God; hence, five daily prayers and inculcation of the fundamental habits (sunnah) of the Prophet in daily living (e.g. patience, generosity, compassion, etc.). The only way a non-Muslim might begin to understand the worldview of a Muslim is if, by applying scientific method, he himself became the subject of an experiment in which he perceives God as the one, omnipresent Lord of all that is, His attributes (all abstract) reflected throughout the fabric of His creation.

    If God is responsible for creating us and fashioning this world; if he is also compassionate and does nothing without wisdom; if he loves us, he will not abandon us without providing guidance by which we may fulfill our purpose in life. What prohibition exists is for our benefit, as such phenomena as murder, rape, theft, adultery, and usury are corrosive both to oneself and society. Beyond these, we enjoin modesty, manifest in our attire and manners, a protection against behavior conducive to wrongdoing in the eyes of God.

    What you perceive as “coercive force” is actually self-abnegation predicated upon consciousness of God. Those who desire proximity to God are willing to abandon even what is otherwise not prohibited if only to enjoy His company above all else.

    For one who doesn’t know God, of course, all of this will appear to be “anti-freedom.” Ironically, what you demand of Muslims is abandonment of their identity as Muslims, which, of itself, would deny Muslims the freedom to practice their religion.

    Just FYI, Muslims can’t compel you or anyone else to practice their religion and this — with very, very few aberrant exceptions — didn’t happen, even when Muslims conquered non-Muslim territory. It was the single-most important distinction between Muslim lands and Christian Europe well before the Reformation, one consistently forgotten by all those complaining incessantly about those conquests in this very forum.

    In any event, thanks for the opportunity to explain these things.

    • Replies: @PPB
    , @Art
  160. Wally says:
    @Johnny Rico

    – That’s it? That’s your reply?
    LOL

    – It was no “gamble”, it was simply imperative.

    – Do strive to get out more often, get away from your PeeCee TeeVee, and cease believing in the impossible “holocaust” religion. You’ll be a better man if you do.

    – Of course you ignored what I posted, but here’s more:

    Why Germany Attacked the Soviet Union, Hitler’s Declaration of War Against the USSR – Two Historic Documents, by Mark Weber: http://www.unz.com/article/why-germany-attacked-the-soviet-union/
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    , @Johnny Rico
  161. @Art

    /The people of Egypt would rather have a secular military dictatorship, then Sharia Law./

    Having inside knowledge about Egypt, I can tell you that your statement is false.

    Fact is, the people of Egypt don’t want Sisi — whose mother is widely known to be Jewish — but they’ve become even wearier of bloodshed, and if you think the choice between the two is that easy to make, you’ve never really known war at all.

    • Replies: @Art
  162. @Twodees Partain

    Not much different than Judaism, when you get down to it…

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  163. @PPB

    Finally, how Muslim-majority nations choose to conduct their own internal affairs is none of my business.

    Admirable. However, the Empire and its sidekicks almost constantly wage wars against Islamic countries. The pretexts change, it could be “fighting terrorism”, “bringing democracy”, WMDs, or some other lie, but the net result is the destruction of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, partition of Sudan, and attempted destruction of Syria just in the last two decades, as well as earlier destruction of Somalia.

  164. @Anon

    As a heterosexual male, I think you know my answer..

  165. @FvS

    A bit of biology. Bacteria breed faster than yeast, yeast breed faster than cancerous mammalian cells, cells breed faster than flies, flies breed faster than mice, mice breed faster than cats, cats breed faster than monkeys… You get the picture.

  166. @JessetheGreen

    Any honest and direct analysis of Islam will reveal nothing but cultural oppression and a loss of everything we understand as the sovereignty of the individual.

    While true about Islam, this is equally true about any religion, including Christianity.

  167. @Ghali

    /It ignores the Zionists and Jews influence on Western political and media establishments in demonising Islam and Muslims./

    Well, this is a legitimate point, but it’s too extreme to dismiss the article wholesale as “lacking rigors and critical analysis” because of it.

    Fact is, you’ll find zionists encamped on both the right and left side of the political spectrum. Yes, as many seek to defend Islam and Muslims (in a manner that befits their political agenda) as others work to vilify it. Saker is more interested in applying Socratic Method to illustrate the absurdity of the anti-Islam brigades’ position and ambition, and he does so rather effectively. (I haven’t seen a single poster offer anything remotely resembling an effective rebuttal to his argument.)

  168. @Johnny Walker Read

    Very little difference, if any, in fact.

  169. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:

    I can’t take seriously people who lump Russia and China together. People who do that obviously have no independent thinking skills and just accept what they’re told by the mainstream authorities.
    On the other hand, people who recognize that both countries are in a temporary and artificial relationship are much sharper.

    • Agree: AnonFromTN
  170. Russia national guard can be used not just against possible crisis on the borders but against own population to protect rober barons of modern Russia.
    The best protection against any refugees is birth rates that allow to at least keep population stable or better have some growth.
    Otherwise eventually nothing will help.
    But yes, from Soviet times russia seems to keep the border on lock.
    Any attempt to break through by any potential so called refugees must be met with deadly force. It will make things clear right away, would stop the crisis in tracks. 100 years ago Europeans would not think twice but now totally emasculated they are committing suicide by allowing absolutely alien population to come in and proliferate at core population expense.

  171. Hegar says:

    This essay is all over the place. But I’ll pick one paragraph:

    As for the military, it has plenty of firepower, but it is trained to destroy enemy forces. If the 92% majority chooses to unleash its armed forces against an 8% minority that is called a civil war and, by the way, that is EXACTLY what happened in the Ukraine and the Donbass. Do you really want that for your country?

    Do you have to ask?

    This is guilt by association, by the way. We are against the Ukrainian coupsters. So you equate people with the Ukrainian coupsters.

    How about equating us with those who rebelled against the British Empire instead? That was also civil war.

    How about equating us with the Rhodesians who sought to defend themselves from invading Blacks from neighboring countries?

    Or those who fought to save China from the communists, who preceded to kill twenty million Chinese? If our enemies manage to make Whites a majority in the West, a lot more than twenty million people will be killed.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  172. PPB says:
    @AnonStarter

    No basic argument with what you’re saying– I fundamentally agree with it at the level from which you’re speaking– but does adopting a higher standard for oneself entitle one to enforce it upon all others? Is there really a “one size fits all” agenda that is appropriate for all humans?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  173. Hegar says:

    What Alt-Righters & Co. fail to realize is that most European borders are completely artificial, along with some of the main European countries (Germany and Italy for starters!). Furthermore, Europe always lived through wave after wave of immigrants (just like Russia, by the way), and none of them made Europe weaker. If we want to be really honest we would admit that those who did the most to destroy Europe were the clueless European ruling classes which committed collective suicide during WWI. Only then came the man who did even more than anybody else to destroy Europe, and he was a famous European nationalist: Adolf Hitler.

    This is Marxist propaganda straight through. “Borders are artificial so nationalism is meaningless! And that means mass immigration of Arabs and Africans is fine and no different from Whites changing locations in the past! Fight the capitalist rulers instead!”

    Why does this guy write for Unz Review?

    And Hitler “did more than anybody else to destroy Europe”? You’ve been eating up everything served you in school, The Saker. Hitler simply attacked Poland as Poland was throwing occupied Germans out of their homes, and the Polish police beat them in the streets. They forced Germans to serve in the Polish military. Poland’s dictator Pilsudski dreamed of a Great Poland taking land from Germany and the Soviet Union with British help. His foreign minister told the German ambassador that Germany was bluffing; they had new divisions but no veterans to fill them with. Germany gave them a twelve-point list for discussion, but Pilsudski refused. The Germans wanted a referendum for mixed areas, where Poles and Germans would vote on which country to belong to, but Poland refused. So Germany invaded to take back the land Pilsudski occupied since WWII.

    And for that the British and French attacked Germany. And the Soviet Union amassed its military on the German border to invade, and proceed to invade the rest of Western Europe.

    So how exactly did Hitler “do more than anybody else to destroy Europe”? Europe was destroyed by those who invaded and occupied other nations the world over, but pretended to be upset when Germany took back its land, a fraction of the land area they themselves occupied.

  174. @Wally

    All attentive observers of the history understand Hitler to have been a gambler. It is not up for debate.

  175. Hegar says:
    @Anonymous

    No. That’s leftist propaganda. The oil lobby has never sought war in the Middle East, it has always been pro-Arab. They simply want to do business with whoever is currently in charge of a country. The Zionist lobby and media are the ones who pushed for war. But that is forbidden to say, so people blame the White Dick Cheney who had worked in the oil industry. When the truth is he didn’t seek war, it was the Zionists like Richard Pearl who did, and he surrendered and went along with them.

    “The oil lobby!” It’s the cry of people who don’t want to cast blame on the Zionists. With zero evidence for this, while Perle and the rest were thick in government. Wolfowitz was the one who gathered Congressional support for the Afghan-Iraq

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Biff
    , @AnonFromTN
  176. @Wally

    Interesting that you feel I ignored what you posted. I only wrote a brief paragraph and there are clearly two references in it to what you posted.

    Pay attention. Try again.

  177. @anon

    Agree with a qualifier. Semi-alliance of Russia and China is unnatural, driven by demented policies of the imperial elite. However, their non-hostile business-like relations are in the best interests of both, given their enormous border and economic complementarity.

    • Replies: @anon
  178. Sol says:

    Lot of non-sequiturs in this piece..

  179. @Hegar

    You got a lot of things wrong, here is just one of many examples:

    Pilsudski occupied since WWII

    Pilsudski was scum, but he died in 1935, long before WWII. Poland behaved like, using Churchill’s expression, “a hyena of Europe”, snatching a piece of Czechoslovakia, which the UK and France threw under the bus in Munich, after Pilsudski death.

    • LOL: Ilyana_Rozumova
  180. @Medvedev

    Plus they have the best singer on the planet. Dimash Kudaibergen.

  181. Biff says:
    @Hegar

    The oil lobby has never sought war in the Middle East

    While this may be true in the general sense, but when the Iraq war was inevitable, the oil lobby climbed right on board.
    https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/185/40642.html

  182. @Hegar

    $10 billion no-bid Halliburton contract in Iraq? Or the facts don’t matter for an anti-left crusader?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @FvS
  183. tumi says:
    @RoatanBill

    Will we be talking about Islam if there were no 911 ?

    Muslim are victims of their own leaders . Today white and Europeans are being victimized more by their own leaders than by anyone else .
    More harm has been done by the religious leaders to the corresponding religion than any harm brought to it by other religions . It’s true if Judaism Christianity and Islam .

    Stabbing takes front page but corruption war drug lack of health care pollution intrafamily violence and false information kill and maim more and often the entire generation .

    Muslim fanaticism is a big problem but the only customer of this – US and UK and the provider is Saudi who will sell their parents or children to escape domestic anger local wrath and to stay in the good book of US .( by buying arms killing devout honest impartial Muslim and by carrying water for Israel )

    Muslim fanaticism is the brain child of British and lately of USA.

    I haven’t heard it in 1970 My great grand parents heard it in 1900 because British were creating and fighting this radicalism in order to fragment Muslim society and resistance .

    The violence unleashed by Western nation ( nominally Christian and throughly pagan in outlook ) has allowed the development of this Islam radicalism which we abhor and we associate with mainstream Islam .

  184. sally says:
    @Biff

    I do not think the Islamic countries have the same interest as the Western countries in invading an other sovereign.

    Accompanying war, regime change and invasion of a sovereign in the name of fighting terror, usually finds theft of someone’s assets, or destruction of someone’s competition, as the underlying motivation.. To justify fighting terror one needs terrorist and enemies.. (Wahhabi, Al Qaeda, etc ) so certain places raise and teach their young to be incitable on Que to be behave as terrorist and to give the name of the invented enemy a continuous black eye<=terror is produced when religious or ideologies are defended.

    When the need or opportunity to steal or block competition comes, the pirates move the Terrorist into the target sovereign and utter propaganda sufficiently strong enough to justify the leadership of a terror hunting nation state (most of whom are in on the theft or competition demolition) to invade the target sovereign state with its terrorist hunting military and competition destroying bombs, supposedly to eradicate the terrorist, but actually the purpose seems to be to provide security to the investors(thieves) who are bilking wealth from the target place inside of the invaded target sovereign state. Hence the war is justified because the terrorist need to be put down, so while the investors (thieves) are privatizing, stealing, or destroying competition or what ever, in accord to what they came for, the terrorist find cause to raise havoc so the terror hunting military can stay to protect the investments.

    So since the Islamic countries are not after the same thing as the west, it seems to me the answer to your question is probably not.

  185. bjondo says:

    $10 billion no-bid Halliburton contract in Iraq?

    To build (poorly) outhouses, showers, posts and to serve rotted food.

    President Doofus was the righteous, ignorant, but legal signature.
    Cheney/Rumsfeld – evil tools. White, front faces for Jew like Jung, M. Mead.

    The War was for Israel, by Israelis (Pussywitz, Darth Perle, other traitors – all Israeli).

    Oil considerations along with historical treasures (and water) primarily for Israel.
    Oil company’s were after-the-fact vultures not planners, instigators, and were not successful.

    Saddam offered all the oil they wanted to prevent a war.

    Sorry,

    Israel/Jewry wanted destruction, chaos, extinction.

  186. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art

    Can Islam exist without the full implantation of Sharia Law?

    What a funny question. Since it already does, obviously it can. Sharia is only fully employed by a small fraction of Muslim majority countries. About half don’t even use it for family law (such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, and child custody).

    But how about the US?
    “..various states have outlawed sharia, or passed some form of ballot measure which “prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law.” As of 2014 these include Alabama, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota and Tennessee.”
    This may be aimed at Islam, but how does it [or should it] affect others such as Amish, some Jewish sects, and Mormons, who in some cases have virtually autonomous jurisdiction, especially regarding family law?

  187. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    $10 billion no-bid Halliburton contract in Iraq? Or the facts don’t matter for an anti-left crusader?

    Actually, I think you’re missing the point. Corporations are in business to make money, and if a war breaks out, they’ll certainly take advantage of it. As historical example, I think Henry Ford was vehemently against U.S. involvement in World War II, but after the war began, Ford became one of our leading industrial suppliers in the conflict.

    With regard to the Iraq War, I followed the issue very closely at the time, and absolutely everything I saw suggested that the the major oil companies were very skeptical. Indeed, I remember a big NYT article in which their correspondent visited the Dallas Petroleum Club, ground-zero of Big Oil, and nobody there would figure out why America was getting ready to attack Iraq. A few of the top oil men said something like “I guess Bush must know something that we don’t.”

    Indeed, prior to becoming VP, Dick Cheney had been head of Halliburton, and his main lobbying effort had been to *end* U.S. sanctions against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, so that Halliburton could get some of the lucrative oil services contracts there.

    Similarly, although the Saudis were fierce enemies of Iraq, they lobbied very vigorously *against* the Iraq War.

    Basically, virtually all the pressure for the Iraq War was coming from the Jewish Neocons, other pro-Israel groups, and the political/media people in their orbit. But since almost everyone was too scared to speak the obvious truth that the war was being fought for Israel, the dishonest and/or cowardly leftist anti-war activists all denounced it with the slogan “No Blood for Oil,” which made them look totally ridiculous.

    Anyone who actually believes that the Iraq War was fought for Big Oil or other corporations probably also believes that we need to heavily arm Ukraine to block Putin’s plans of world conquest…

  188. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    [Our] culture selects … for individuality.

    LOLOL. Of course you think you’re an original thinker! RFLMAO.

    • Replies: @Marshall Lentini
  189. @Richard P

    Traditional democracy, ie supported by Christian values, posits rule by the majority. The Framers intended it.

    Modern “democracy,” post-Christian lawlessness, encourages rule by minorities, progressive interest groups who generally favor marxist revolution. Hence AOC, who recently said to the crowd something like, “Welcome to the revolution!”

    Any post-Christian government will almost necessarily be Marxist. Human beings will either follow the true living God. Or they will create a Marxist one, in which man is God creating his own eden of government ownership and distribution of production, goods, and services, with equal misery for all (except the top in their dachas).

    This woke society will tend toward civil war with the unenlightened remnant, who hold to their traditional values. They are also effective in bribing (with money, votes, and influence) fake “conservative leaders” to their side. Any public opponent is pilloried.

    If there is a way out of this morass, it might be an international war, which might level the playing field for all sides. Or it might not: a military dictatorship might come to power to impose order. Henry Kissinger and Mikhail Gorbachev have warned repeatedly of an approaching American-Russian-Chinese war. One does his best to tell the truth and call for peace and understanding.

    • Replies: @Richard P
  190. @PPB

    /does adopting a higher standard for oneself entitle one to enforce it upon all others?/

    No, but are parents entitled to raise their child as they see fit, enforcing rules of the house in accordance with their own moral criterion?

    Ideally, a child is raised with a strong sense of morality inculcated by parental example and, pragmatically, he remains subject to his parents’ dominion until he is mature enough to become independent of them, usually marrying and establishing a family of his own. It may be that he opts out of the religion. In principle, he is free to do so, as this does not constitute a capital crime (save in Torah law, a portion of which was unfortunately assimilated by the millennial world during the Abbasid era). That said, it doesn’t require much imagination to acknowledge the challenges to familial cohesion that inhere to such a decision. This is true even of non-Muslim families dealing with the black sheep among their own.

    I am of the conviction that a parent must, at some point in time in his child’s life, “let go and let God,” though it would also torment my heart greatly to see my grown-and-flown child choose to conduct himself as if oblivious to God. The state of the family is the state of society, a microcosm for its condition. As such, much of Islam addresses both individual and familial obligation as a means of preserving social order from within, rather than from without.

    Ultimately, we can’t make anyone keep faith, not even our own children. We do, however, want them to share in the incalculable bounty of faith that we enjoy, to seek as their destination a garden beneath which rivers flow, rather than a fire whose fuel is men and stones, and, barring coercion, we’ll work overtime to see that they join us in striving for it.

    /Is there really a “one size fits all” agenda that is appropriate for all humans?/

    But they plan, and God plans. And God is the Best of Planners.

    The agenda is His, and He determines what is appropriate for each soul in its time and place. Even the Australian aborigines have a word for God: Atnatu, which means, “One who has no anus.” Silly as it may seem, it’s actually more sophisticated than any apotheosis, evincing a comprehension of God that transcends creation itself. You’ll find parallels of this perspective among virtually every people on earth, however many deviations pervade their surrounding.

    How one reaches God is left to him. Sooner or later, it’ll happen whether he wants it or not.

    • Replies: @PPB
  191. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carroll Price

    Get a grip, and a clue: Christianity is an Abrahamic religion.

  192. How could the Papacy have “invented genocide as a concept”? The Old Testament has a lot of examples of genocide. The (hopefully mythical) genocide recorded in Book of Esther, and celebrated every year by observant Jews during Purim, was written in >400 B.C., practically 1000 before the Christian Papacy began. So I do not know what Saker meant by that.

    I also do not understand why he fails to note the ecological basis for concern over mass immigration into USA. Having family values does not automatically remove one’s ecological footprint, or somehow grant immunity against long term environmental destruction and ecological overshoot.

    However, some of his other observations are quite sobering. Personally I see no reason why USA has a quarrel with Iran. Their music is really excellent and quite captivating. I encourage more cultural exchange. whereby we might diffuse unnecessary tensions.

  193. @ivegotrythm

    Quite so. I would say that things started to go downhill in 1540. I blame that capricious softy Henry VIII. On reading my post again, it seemed to have a bit of a ranting tone, so apologies for that.

  194. FvS says:
    @AnonFromTN

    This should be required reading for every American.

  195. @Hegar

    the British and French attacked Germany.

    The British and French never attacked Germany; they only declared war on Germany but it was Germany that attacked France after already having attacked Poland, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and even Czechoslovakia prior to Poland. You’re trying to paint the aggressor as the victim.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  196. @peterAUS

    That anon must know all the talking points as he claims he’s a former alt-righter. I suppose he gave up faced with the reality out there. I myself am surprised when I see liberals, feminists, homos supporting the refugee invasion and islamification of Europe – it’s not what one would expect. Can’t really blame him for wanting an easy life. There’s very few websites left where one can practice free speech or discuss issues facing whites. Aryanskynet and hipsterracist have been down for quite a few months already. Slowly, or not so slowly, but surely, they’re taking everything down. Hipster racist is up again at https://bannedhipster.home.blog but expects to get censored again, at least as soon as the ADL become aware that he’s active. I laughed at that comment of anon’s that he’s looking at you. Why pick on you out of so many here? Probably you remind him of the way he was until his recent change of heart.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  197. Anonymous[320] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Someone should write an article about this. Way too many people have bought this pernicious lie – including Trump who was reportedly astonished at the number of non-US corporations reaping oil profits from the newly destroyed MENA countries. I think he believed in the “you destroy it – you own it” motto at the time.

  198. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    I am aware of most of what you write and tend to agree. I’m not sure about portals to other dimensions and some of the more outlandish theories, like the one about alien lizards that David Icke pushes but otherwise I can go along with most of what even he says.

  199. chrimony says:

    Yes, goy-kaffir, Europe and the Americas are so much better after their Muslim enrichment. You have no choice but to submit.

  200. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Chinese are basically yellow Jews, so expect to be screwed over if you deal with the chinks for too long unless you have a stronger military than them lol. I can see a future, after the US weakens into irrelevance, where Russia, Japan, India, and Vietnam cooperate to keep China from getting too uppity.

  201. David55 says:
    @Seraphim

    Seraphim is a right-wing ZIONIST Jew (Likudnik, pro-settlements, rapidly anti-Arab, etc) who’s an Islamophobe and a virulent one – a murderous one!

    The anti-Zionist anger of the Muslims in the West really bothers this Jew!

    Fails to mention that JEWS do already DOMINATE all aspects of American society- economy and politics: Banking, Media, Lobby of lobbies, etc.

    Oh, yes- that ‘Islam will Dominate’ by few street lads was aired by the uber-Zionist media propaganda organ called FOX owned by Zionist JEW Robert IGER!

    This Zionist Jew supports “Israel, right or wrong” although she carried out mass slaughter on 9/11( for sure!) and probably numerous false flag attacks since 9/11!

    Muslims should be punished- as individuals- for the share o acts of terror committed by them BUT so should Zionist Jews!

    In on that?

  202. Pandour says: • Website

    Several years ago I saw a truly hideous photo involving a divorce case in Yemen.The husband had pierced the tricep of his wife and in the hole inserted a wooden chain with which he lead her about.The woman looked emaciated,filthy and just stunned with misery and anguish.Guess what-the court did not grant her a divorce.Thats the real face of Islam.After a forced marriage,also in Yemen, the child bride of 13 fled from her abusive husband, and was caught by her uncle who had sold her for 1,400 U.S. dollars.As punishment he put a heavy iron chain around her neck and tied her to his house like a dog for two months.Such stories are a dime-a-dozen in the wonderful Muslim world.

    • Replies: @bjondo
  203. bjondo says:
    @Pandour

    Such stories are a dime-a-dozen in the wonderful Muslim world.

    Correction:

    Such stories are a dime-a-dozen About the wonderful Muslim world

    from propagandists for Israel and crack heads who have bought the Pipes-type hate tripe.

    5ds

    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @Pandour
  204. @Bugg

    “Orthodox Jews…view America as nothing more than a badly run bank to be ripped off for all they can take.”

    And it is badly run because they run it.

  205. QUESTION I NEED ANSWERED

    If Islam is so bad, then please tell me why Dubai was cleaner, safer and more wealthy than the American cities I had lived in previously?

    Why doesn’t Dubai have the hardscrabble poverty of the Rustbelt or Appalachia? Why isn’t poisonous sludge coming out of Dubai faucets like Flint, Michigan?

    Why are there no gangs in Dubai? Sure, supposedly the Russian mafia is in Dubai but you are not going to be jumped by Russian mobsters in Dubai on the street like Mexican gangs and certainly black ones will jump people in American cities?

    If Islam is so violent then why is the Dubai murder rate low? Much lower than any American city?

    Why are drugs not a problem in Dubai? Oh, a few Arabs chew khat (A mild form of speed) and some Pakistanis smoke hash but in Dubai there is no meth and no crack. You’ll never see an overdose of Opoids.

    I’m a Catholic American and not Muslim but I lived in Dubai.

    Someone here answer.

  206. PPB says:
    @AnonStarter

    Thanks, AnonStarter. My questions to you weren’r really put forward in disagreement, but rather in an attempt to flush out what your understanding was regarding these matters, and in the knowledge that you’d have something both valuable and sound to communicate.

    Part of my question was also based on a momentary consideration of the differences between the orientation of Islam, based on the underlying and overarching principle of a unity both metaphysical and social, and the theory behind the Hindu caste system. God knows that the latter has its problems as far as its practical application is concerned, but the basic theory behind it seems reasonable to me if it isn’t applied exploitatively or too rigidly. Namely, that different templates for living suit different human “types”, with increasing restrictions on allowable behavior as one ascends the hierarchy, itself based (even if mostly in principle) on inherent nobility, not wealth or power.

    I’m also reminded of William Blake’s statement that “One law for the lion and ox is oppression”. But the maintenance of social order will always require some degree of coercion, in one form or another, or from one source or another, to rein in human willfulness and .indiscipline.

  207. @Ron Unz

    There were two wars against Iraq. Bush one and Bush two.
    These two wars had entirely different reasons.

    • Replies: @anon
  208. @Jeff Stryker

    Not all Muslim countries are like Dubai. The slums of Cairo and Casablanca are very different – filthy and unsafe. I guess the answer to your question is oil wealth. But then we can ask why isn’t Venezuela like Dubai since it’s oil rich too.

  209. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I myself am surprised when I see liberals, feminists, homos supporting the refugee invasion and islamification of Europe – it’s not what one would expect.

    You shouldn’t be surprised. It’s all about destroying the current social order. Those you mentioned just feel they will take over, have the power, own the world, after that. Islamists feel the same.
    A coalition, of a sort.
    My money, in such a case, is on the later.

    Why pick on you out…

    The only pick I am interested in is a bunch of “youths” in a shitty neighborhood and I am alone with no access to “tools”. People on the Internet just get ignored/skimmed over. Besides, he isn’t “picking”. It’s about below.

    Probably you remind him of the way he was until his recent change of heart.

    Don’t think so. He appears confused. The phase a lot of White males find themselves today.
    More to come.
    Most of them will start, really, thinking when they get uncomfortable. Really uncomfortable. Not long now.
    Some won’t, ever.

    We just need to try to work with those who show some promise.

  210. Pandour says: • Website
    @bjondo

    Criminal and disgraceful intellectual laziness,denying the documented suffering of the woman and girl in question.You would be better off without a computer,as you obviously do not use it for anything worthwhile..Just type in honour killings in Pakistan,for example-there are pages on the subject.

  211. @peterAUS

    I agree with your additions generally, but note that after Vienna, it was all down hill for the Ottomans. I saw those losses as confirmation of the collapse in progress.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  212. Art says:
    @AnonStarter

    Fact is, the people of Egypt don’t want Sisi — whose mother is widely known to be Jewish — but they’ve become even wearier of bloodshed, and if you think the choice between the two is that easy to make, you’ve never really known war at all.

    “even wearier of bloodshed” — exactly my point — the people of Egypt fear the Muslim crazies and their quest for Sharia law.

    Sisi — whose mother is widely known to be Jewish – another dark mark for the Jews – another proven anti-democracy act, flowing from Jew culture.

    Do No Harm

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  213. Pandour says: • Website
    @bjondo

    According to the Aurat Foundation,a Pakistani human rights organization-yeah,you read it right,a Pakistani human rights organization-at least 675 women and girls were murdered in honor killings during the first nine months of the calendar year 2011.Almost 77 per cent of such honor cases ended in acquittal.Pass that off as propaganda.

    • Replies: @bjondo
  214. peterAUS says:
    @Curmudgeon

    I agree with your additions generally, but note that after Vienna, it was all down hill for the Ottomans. I saw those losses as confirmation of the collapse in progress.

    Yes.
    Which, apparently, changed a bit in ’95.

    A territory, in Europe, as this fellow as the leader.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alija_Izetbegovi%C4%87

    The guy who wrote
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Declaration

    Then, “we” got Kosovo. And hard self-rule in Macedonia.

    True, who cares; just Balkans.
    Incidentally, where the road to Europe started before, in times/age you mentioned. Ah, yes, true, Europeans don’t read history anymore, so, didn’t happen/who cares.

    Hehe….well….Islamists do.
    This time they, among other things, have quite significant internal force already within the target regions. And, increasing in numbers and social/political power.
    Promising.

  215. Art says:
    @AnonStarter

    Muslims — practicing ones that is — strive to maintain a constant consciousness of God; hence, five daily prayers and inculcation of the fundamental habits (sunnah) of the Prophet in daily living (e.g. patience, generosity, compassion, etc.).

    Hmm – how do all those fine words square with honor and apostate killing? Those are the practices of Muslims, done in the name of their religious view of God.

    Those practices are anathema to the world. Can Islam survive without those practices? If so, it must denounce them – PERIOD.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Forgive — Western Thoughts

  216. bjondo says:
    @Pandour

    Will assume true, will take some time to research.
    As for a quick response, it is propaganda.

    These unpleasant aspects of someone
    else’s culture if used as a weapon
    to demonize from the outside for purposes
    of someone’s aggression or to justify
    atrocities committed by holier-than-thou peoples
    becomes, is propaganda.

    Aurat Foundation, assuming an independent
    Pakistani Foundation, has every right to try and
    make changes it sees needed in its culture.

    It is no one else’s business to interfere and to
    weaponize an aspect of someone else’s culture.

    Jew, Christian, atheist, Hindu,other
    should tend to themselves.

    Maybe, not kill new borns and to-be-born
    or use kids as guinea pigs for drugs.
    In the millions, not hundreds or dozens.

    5ds

  217. Richard P says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    Any post-Christian government will almost necessarily be Marxist. Human beings will either follow the true living God. Or they will create a Marxist one, in which man is God creating his own Eden of government ownership and distribution of production, goods, and services, with equal misery for all (except the top in their dachas).

    Excellent analysis. At this point in time, I’d argue that the West isn’t anti-Christian; it’s post-Christian. Not only have Conservatives failed to conserve our traditional way of life, but our government has become one of the most ardent supports of neo-Marxism. Just look at how the State Department meddles in the Eastern Orthodox Church in order to weaken Holy Rus’ and how all of our governmental institutions were illuminated by the colors of the rainbow during Pride Month. Furthermore, this absurdity doesn’t end at our borders — it’s blatantly displayed at our embassies across the globe as Rainbow flags are flown in conjunction with the American flag. What a travesty.

    • Agree: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  218. Richard P says:
    @Ron Unz

    …anti-war activists all denounced it with the slogan “No Blood for Oil,” which made them look totally ridiculous.

    The correct slogan should have been “No Blood for Israel”. The evil Zionists in Washington must be proud as they relish in their decades worth of death and destruction in the Middle East.

  219. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    Similarly, although the Saudis were fierce enemies of Iraq

    From 1983 on, Saudi Arabia spent $40 Billion funding Saddam’s war against Iraq.

    Basically, virtually all the pressure for the Iraq War was coming from the Jewish Neocons, other pro-Israel groups, and the political/media people in their orbit.

    On June 24 2002, Bush explicitly said, as no president before had, that he wanted the creation of a Palestinian state. “My vision is two states, living Tside by side in peace and security“. To get America to declare the two state solution an official objective: what a brilliant strategic victory for neo-conservatives.

    [The Saudis] lobbied very vigorously *against* the Iraq War.

    The Saudi Ambassador in Washington, Bandar bin Sultan Al Saud lobbied very strongly for an invasion, and he remained in his post until June 2005.

  220. Sean says:

    https://vdare.com/articles/is-population-transfer-the-solution-to-the-palestinian-problem-and-some-others

    Moreover, the central problem facing Israeli nationalism at this moment is the Palestinian question—the presence, within the borders of the national state, of a large, unassimilable, alienated population. Because of current mass immigration, the U.S. and all the historic nation-states of Europe are beginning to face the same problem. Ultimately, they may have to consider some version of the same solution. [[..] The world can go on proposing futile peace plans—or it can consider a solution that would actually end the conflict: the non-lethal but forcible expulsion of the Palestinians to Jordan.

    (Arguably, Jordan is Palestine anyway, and has been since at least 1923, when three-quarters of the League of Nations mandate of Palestine was set up as the Emirate of Transjordan by the British and reserved for Arabs. The Palestinians do not constitute a distinct nationality, being racially, ethnically, linguistically, religiously, and culturally indistinguishable from the majority of Jordan’s population.) […] Population transfer is not a perfect solution. Some people would get killed.

    But the alternative is a low-intensity war in which people are being killed every day. It would be a cauterizing but effective end to the conflict, a cutting of the biggest Gordian knot in world politics.

    And it has, as I said, crucial implications for other Western nations—including America.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  221. peterAUS says:
    @Sean

    …non-lethal but forcible expulsion….

    C…..r……a……z……….y.

  222. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Ilyana the trickster, what’s your reason for Bush one War? 🙂

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  223. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art

    What was the religion of the Greeks who stoned Zorba’s mistress at the end [of the movie], while he skulked away?

  224. @Richard P

    As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, am especially sensitive to your point about State’s incitement of schism in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (according to some accounts). Well said.

    Travesty may be turning to absurdity because now some want to mate the Rainbow and American flags into one, a Wokemerican flag:

    “It’s not equal; that’s just taking over…” (apology for frequent f*** terminology)

    Veteran is offended by the Stars and Rainbow…

    For many the Stars and Hues flag represents not just diversity, but the NWO…

    What better symbol of a country’s moral direction than its flag.

    • Replies: @Richard P
    , @Arioch
  225. Islam isn’t western.

    We’ve covered this. Due to massive differences either between Western socio-political organisation or Christianity.

    Cousin Marriage vs non Cousin Marriage
    Polygamy vs non-Polygamy
    Prohibited realism vs realism
    Arbitrary divine caprice vs Natural Law
    Greco-Roman Rejection vs Greco-Roman fusion
    Insular vs Univeral Deontology

    And many, many, many others.

    It was very telling when on ‘The Saker’s’ first piece, Muslims apologists tried to contend with this framework, and none of them could name a single Muslim thinker that contradicted it past the 13th century. And of all those they could name, like Avicenna, most had their books burned and were removed from the Dar-el Islam.

    Islam isn’t western, and Islam is not a viable solution for solving the West’s problems. The fact that the Saker is trying to pretend Islam is interchangeable with the West shows he doesn’t understand Islam, or the West, or, basically anything.

    But I don’t think this writer is the Saker. This sounds like a frenetic and ardent moderately intelligent adolescent female flailing. It’s a very incoherent essay.

    Islam is a religion of violence, it was spread with violence and it condones violence, including for religious reasons. In fact, Islam encourages violence in its followers.

    Yes, it is a religion of violence. It has been since it’s inception. One of the more recent examples is the rape of up to 1million English women by Muslims since around 1970 according to former Labour MP Linda Champion. For that crime alone, every single Muslim in the United Kingdom should be removed. Given the scale of the rape, it’s actually almost mathematically conclusive that in many villages, towns, boroughs and cities, almost every Muslim male between the ages of 18 and 35 was involved in the rape.

    And these rapes according to the leaked excerpts of the pseudo Royal Commission were not the rape of the Baizuo. These were rapes that left people physically and psychologically destroyed.

    Islam is a medieval and barbaric religion. It is completely incompatible with western values.

    Yes, it is completely incompatible with Western values. The nubile little girl who wrote this High School rant believes in something called ‘Islamophobia’. That is proof of the incompability. You have to go back.

    Immigrants from Muslim countries represent a clear and present danger for western societies and if their number exceeds a certain percentage they can take over a western society and impose their religious values including Sharia law.

    Yes they do, if for no other reason then economic destruction via welfareism. In every single western country in which Muslims reside, the ‘multiculturalism’ is upheld only by preemptive submission to violence backed censorship, and government net transfers.

    In the UK, with supposedlty the most integrated muslim population in the world, 65% of Muslim women, and 35% of Muslim men are unemployed.

    Muslims are parasites, just at a lower level then the Jews.

    “If you condemn Islam or even oppose it vs some western values, you should at least have a rough list of such western values which you want to defend and in the name of which you will oppose Islam in general and the potential actions of Muslim immigrants in the West”

    That’s easy. The West is based upon three pillars:

    1) Christianity
    2) The European Peoples
    3) The Greco-Roman political and jurisprudential philosophical legacy.

    Islam is comprised of none of those things.

    “They ARE right when they observe a loss of identity of White Westerners, that is quite true, but they are naive to the extreme when they attribute it to “others””

    Irrelevant. The invading population of Muslims is not asymptomatic, it is a culmination of symptoms. It is simply due to the false tenets of materialsm and secularism and multiculturalism and social democractic liberalism. Again, this isn’t hard either. All it’s going to take is the economic downturn and re-appropriation of media.

    “neither the intelligence community, nor the police, nor the military are the correct “tool” to deal with such issues.”

    Constituencies will decide these issues.

    And yes, millions of Muslims engaged in fourth generation warfare and a trajecetory of economic and cultural ruin and rape absolutely are going to be deported.

    Europeans are not shrinking violets when their fundamental existences are at stake – you know, just ask all the Slavs threatened, or supposedly threatened, by Hitler.

    This can’t be the Saker. The drop in intelligence and quality is too marked.

    This is some Muslim teenage girl. Look lovely, 1.8billion Muslims can reside in the Islamic World. They aren’t western, they do not belong in the West, and the inevitable historical forces in place are going to follow their dialectic to a conclusion.

  226. Richard P says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, am especially sensitive to your point about State’s incitement of schism in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (according to some accounts).

    Likewise. Below are a couple of articles that may be of interest to you. Furthermore, the Strategic Culture Foundation has published some good analysis on the aforementioned matter.

    For US, Meddling in Orthodox Church Affairs Is Just Another Tool Against Russia

    “…the press statement avoids directly calling for autocephaly while unmistakably giving the impression of such endorsement, which is exactly how it was reported in the media, for example, “US backs Ukrainian Church bid for autocephaly.” The State Department’s praise for the Ecumenical Patriarchate reinforces that clearly intended impression.”

    “Thus, the State Department must now be considered a party to triggering violent religious strife that will soon grip Ukraine and cause a split in the Orthodox world rivaling even the Great Schism between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism that took place in 1054.”

    “The State Department’s decision to become involved in a religious matter that does not concern the US is likewise narrowly political and reflects the schizophrenia in the Trump administration concerning Russia. Trump’s 2016 declarations that he wanted to improve ties with Moscow terrified the post-Maidan leadership in Kiev, who were overtly in Hillary’s camp. When Trump unexpectedly won, they were afraid he would make a deal with Moscow over their heads.”

    “However, with the moving into political positions of influence strongly anti-Russian figures, many of them Bush retreads and even some with “Never Trump” credentials, Ukrainian officials have good reason to feel that that danger has largely been averted. With hostility toward Russia seemingly permanent and deepening, they believe they have Washington back where they want them.”

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/10/no_author/for-us-meddling-in-orthodox-church-affairs-is-just-another-tool-against-russia/

    MANY THOUSANDS WILL DIE – The Coming Schism in Orthodoxy: “Repent, and Stop This Insanity

    “Once again, the United States and its policies are creating chaos, setting up the murder of innocent people, and disrupting an ancient institution. Only this time, it is direct interference in the affairs not just of a nation state, Ukraine, but of a religious institution, the Orthodox Church.”

    “But you, State Department, will have the blood of the little Ukrainian grandmothers and old men on your hands and your heads. And you will have to answer for your decisions and actions before God. Or do you even care?”

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/10/many-thousands-will-die-the-coming-schism-in-orthodoxy-repent-and-stop-this-insanity/

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  227. There is a Lie.
    Then there is a BIG LIE.
    Then there is 911.

    There is Santa Claus.
    Then there is Jesus is God.
    Then there is Jesus Died for your Evils.

    How can a God Die? How is that possible? Satan has taken a lot of people for a ride!

    1. According to our Bible, it was Jews who were responsible for falsely accusing Jesus (pbuh), deceiving the masses about his true mission and causing him to be crucified by the Romans. It is also true that in the Bible Jesus called Jews murderers, children of the devil, vipers, liars and other vile things. Jesus did not pull any punches in describing them. I guess in today’s world he would have been arrested for Antisemitism. He realized the truth and exposed them for what they really were. You Christian Zionists and far right Christians should go study your Bible. You may either learn something or come back denouncing Jesus as an anti-Semite. 
    2. According to many respected WW1 historians it was Jews who tricked Britain into agreeing to give them Palestine in exchange for getting the U.S. into WW1. Benjamin Freedman, a friend of some of the major leaders in our time and who is also a Jew, admitted this during a major speech given to patriots in 1961. The Neturei Karta, a devoutly Jewish religious group also admits the same. There are numerous scholars, historians and Jews who describe in detail how WW1 was started and fought with one of the main goals being securing Palestine for Jews. Here is a link to more information about that:
    A Jewish Defector Warns America
    3. It was Jews who caused the pogroms of their own people in Russia around the 1890s, so that the world will hate the regime of the Czar and cause millions of Jews to flee to the U.S. for political gain. Under the orders of Jacob Schiff in New York and the Rothschilds, they massacred hundreds of fellow Jews to have Russians blamed for this act and cause the immigration of thousands of other Jews to the US. Among other things, this resulted in world opinion turned against the Czar and his government and set up the bloody overthrow of his regime by the Bolsheviks.
    The Illuminati and the Council on Foreign Relations
    4. As admitted to by many historians and even by the ultra Israeli religious group, the Neturei Karta, WW2 was engineered by Jews and the leadership of the Jews made an alliance with Hitler causing thousands of German Jews to be killed so that others will flee en mass to Israel. They also forced the U.S. president Roosevelt to get into WW2 by embargoing Japanese oil causing them to attack the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt went along with this plan, all the while knowing ahead of time about the Japanese attack and the murder of thousands of Americans. See the following for more:
    Stranger Than Fiction
     

    [MORE]

    5. The Iraqi Jew Naeem Giladi wrote a book detailing how Israelis performed terrorist actions and caused the deaths of many Jewish Iraqis during the 1950s so that Arab Iraqis can be blamed for it. The purpose of these terrorist actions was to cause Jews to migrate to Israel from Iraq. All but 6,000 of the 125,000 Jews in Iraq fled to Israel.
    http://www.savethemales.ca/030203.html
    6. A few years after the end of World War II, the Zionist plan to establish the nation of Israel in Palestine was finally realized. But not before the British protectors of Palestine were chased out by acts of terror carried out by ungrateful Zionist terrorists. It was British troops who unwittingly sacrificed their lives in order to steal Palestine away from Arab control and allowed the Jews of Europe to immigrate there. But with Great Britain left weakened and in debt from World War II, the ungrateful Zionists saw their opportunity to now chase the British out of Palestine by committing acts of terrorism against them. The most notorious of the Zionist terror groups was the Irgun, whose leader Menachem Begin would one day go on to become the Prime Minister of Israel and winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.
    On the morning of July 22, 1946, a group of 15-20 Irgun terrorists dressed as Arabs entered the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. They unloaded 225 kilograms of explosives hidden in milk churns. The King David Hotel housed the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine. When a British officer became suspicious, a shootout took place and the Irgun lit the fuses and fled. The explosion destroyed part of the hotel and killed 91 people. Most of the victims were British but 15 innocent Jews also died. Menachem Begin was not merely suspected of being behind these murderous deeds. Begin admitted that the Irgun committed these acts and that they were necessary for the establishment of a Jewish state.
    Stranger Than Fiction
    7. In 1956, as reported by the Times Of London, during one of Israel’s perpetual wars with its neighbors, the Israeli Mossad tried to trick the United States into siding with Israel against Egypt by blowing up a US facility in Cairo and blaming the Egyptians for it. The plot was wrecked when the operatives were caught and confessed, creating a huge scandal. This event was referred to as the Lavon Affair named after the Israeli Defense Minister, Pinhas Lavon,  at that time.
    http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6854
    http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/mossad/lavon_affair.htm
    8. According to Victor Ostrovski, a defector from the Israeli Mossad, the US was tricked into bombing Libya when the Israeli Mossad planted a radio transmitter in Tripoli which sent out fake orders to “terrorists” which the US could intercept. The faked orders caused Libya to be blamed for a German disco bombing. As a result of this fake transmission, Reagan used it as evidence to bomb Libya killing 30 innocent people including Qaddhafi’s baby daughter.
    http://100777.com/node/101
    9. On June 8, 1967 Israel used unmarked fighters and torpedo boats to launch an hour and one-half long attack on the American Navy ship the USS Liberty, costing 34 American sailors their lives and 171 wounded. The Israelis first attacked the Liberty’s radio towers in an attempt to stop the Sixth Fleet from learning that the Israelis were the attackers. After unmarked Israeli fighters horrendously bombed and strafed the Liberty, Israel sent in torpedo boats to finish the job. They even machine gunned the deployed life rafts in an effort to ensure that there would be no survivors (witnesses) who could expose them. Just as in the Lavon Affair, Israel hoped to blame this act of war on their enemy, the Egyptians. This time, only the courage and resourcefulness of the Liberty’s crew prevented a further compounding of the travesty.
    http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/
    9. It was Israelis who were armed with 9mm pistols, nine grenades, explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets and caught in Mexico in an attempt to blow the Mexican Congress up on October 10, 2001, one month after 9/11. Curiously these Israelis were found not with Israeli passports in their possession but with Pakistani passports. The Israelis were booked for conspiracy to destroy a building by means of an explosive by the Mexican police. If they were successful in blowing up the Mexican Congress, then like 9/11, it would have been blamed on Muslim terrorists, especially if Pakistani passports were found at the scene of the crime. They got caught red-handed here and only God knows how many other incidents that innocent Muslims are being blamed for that was really done by Israelis. See the following link for more on this:

    “America’s only ally in the Middle East, Israel, has been responsible for more acts of terror, sabotage, and murder of American citizens than the Muslims ever were. By her duplicity, she has put Americans in more danger than they have ever known or will know. She has bombed hotels, American government buildings, deliberately allowed hundreds of US Marines to be killed in their barracks in Lebanon, assaulted a US intelligence gathering ship, the USS Liberty (for the purposes of blaming the Arabs and thus drawing America into her war against them) stole and then sold America’s most sensitive nuclear weapons technology to her enemies, (Russia and China) and by all indicators most certainly was involved in the 9/11 attacks. Whether it was the testimony given by the Israeli pilots who bombed and machine gunned the USS Liberty (killing 34 American sailors and wounding almost 200 more) or whether it was the Israeli intelligence officers who were arrested on 9/11 (while videotaping the destruction and cheering for a job well done) so much evidence exists which leaves no doubt as to who America’s real enemy is, and yet short of one individual’s conviction and prison sentence, Jonathon Pollard, nothing has been done with Israel with respect to justice or the interests of America’s security. By contrast, year after year she is rewarded with more and more money and even more in terms of immunity and insulation from public scrutiny. The American people, supposedly a Christian people, have displayed not an ounce of the same concern for this obvious danger against their physical well-being which they attempt to display now over the supposed danger posed by Islamic extremism. Through the eyes of a Muslim therefore, the picture of the modern day Western Christian is one of an intellectually compliant, politically and religiously complacent individual who cannot think for himself or act in his own best interests outside of the programming which he receives from his Zionist puppet masters. Even today, as the headlines are blaring out the obvious vindication of this image by virtue of the fact that the war in Iraq was fought on completely false pretenses, the average conservative Christian in America who has adopted this irrational fear of Islam has taken no note of this nor does he appear to have been affected in the least.”
    Through the Eyes of a Muslim

    • Replies: @Arioch
  228. @Richard P

    Thank you, very informative.

    I pray the Church can work things out peacefully.

    God bless in this Nativity Season.

    • Replies: @Richard P
  229. @Anon

    (((‘Us’)))

    Anyone who says this drivel knows nothing about how Muslim society operates and interacts with western society.

    Purely on economic grounds, ignoring everything else, Muslims in Europe cannot possibly be sustained.

    Are you privy to any current affairs of any kind at all regarding Muslims in Europe?

    Muslim rape, Muslim crime and Muslim welfare recipience and frequency are why they are regarded cynically and oppositionally. Not by ‘declaration’.

    Muslims raped a million white girls in England and then Muslims and Jews had state police arrest the fathers for protesting

    Then new generations of Muslims in continental Europe have subjected the European nations to a wave of rape and gang crime.

    It’s not arbitrary.

    And multiculturalism doesn’t work because diversity plus proximity equals war.

    • Replies: @Richard P
    , @Anon
  230. Richard P says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    You’re welcome.

    So do I.

    Relinquish the world during the Nativity Fast and have a joyous holiday season.

  231. Richard P says:
    @Flint Clint

    Muslims raped a million white girls in England and then Muslims and Jews had state police arrest the fathers for protesting

    Indeed. They’ve been busy raping many of women over the last couple of years throughout Western Europe. Remember what transpired in Cologne and Hamburg during New Year’s Eve?

    Revealed: 1,200 women were sexually assaulted by 2,000 men in German cities on New Year’s Eve

    “A leaked report has revealed a staggering 1,200 were sexually abused in German cities during New Year’s Eve celebrations.

    The police document stated detectives believe 2,000 men were involved across various cities but that the bulk of the crimes were committed in Cologne and Hamburg where 600 and 400 sexual assaults on women were reported respectively.

    Of the 2,000 perpetrators, only 120 have been identified, and about half of them were foreign nationals who had only recently arrived in Germany.”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684302/1-200-German-women-sexually-assaulted-New-Year-s-Eve-Cologne-elsewhere.html

    • Replies: @Talha
  232. Richard P says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Why are there no gangs in Dubai? Sure, supposedly the Russian mafia is in Dubai but you are not going to be jumped by Russian mobsters in Dubai on the street like Mexican gangs and certainly black ones will jump people in American cities?

    If Islam is so violent then why is the Dubai murder rate low? Much lower than any American city?

    There’s a lot of truth in the above statements. I’ve never been to Dubai, but know others who’ve lived there. I’ve heard the same from them as you’ve described. Furthermore, Christian cities such as Saint Petersburg and Moscow follow suite. I’ve walked around in each for a considerable time and was never bothered by anyone. My experiences in many of US cities has been vastly different and not in a positive way. I’ve been randomly threatened by Negroids and White trash in many of the Rust Belt cities, harassed by Mestizos in many of the major Southwestern and South Central cities, and witnessed a fair share of crime in major urban areas along the East Coast.

    Cities enriched with authentic Christianity or Islam are inherently safer than you’re average metropolis found in the West, IMO.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @Jeff Stryker
  233. @Richard P

    Post Christian multi cultural western geography isn’t the West. There isn’t a single western city that is still western. They are conquered territories.

    Muslims like Blacks probably need the severity of Sharia to retain cohesion.

    Jared Taylor is correct. Every white civilization whatever it’s form became successful. From American republicanism, to British constitutional monarchy to Nordic socialism to Prussian absolute monarchy.

    What destroys these systems is the inclusion of foreign elements that either exploit the high trust high performance environment or simply don’t match their receipts with commensurate inputs.

    Dubai is relatively peaceful because of the iron fist that is barely concealed by it’s inhabitants.

    In the United States if you applied the same severity to vibrant nogs and Unzs favourite Hispanics who apparently dindu nuffin except turn the LAPD into a literal gang it results in jewish civil law suits.

    The West is a tinderbox. And the Phoenecian spooks and Jews who own the intelligence services and websites like this measuring social sentiment know it.

    When this bubble pops there won’t be enough robots.

  234. @anon

    Bush 1 war.

    (Obviously you are too young, and so you do not know what did happen.)
    Khomeini did return from France to Iran There was Iranian revolution.
    Iran changed from being best friend of USA to become independent.
    Reagan made a deal with Iran and Embassy hostages were released.
    But He did not go further.
    Bush 1 was different. He cut out Iran from trade, Bush 1 started to buy oil from Iraq.
    Before that Sadam had only revenue by selling oil on black market in Europe.
    Living standard in Iraq jumped up considerably. US did sell or gave Sadam whatever he desired. Even gas to shut up mouths permanently of a few thousand Kurds.
    Than US did talk Sadam into attacking Iran. Iraq had some initial successes. But after some two years Iran did push back Sadam to the line from which war did start and the war did stop. After a few months Sadam Invaded Kuwait.
    There was uproar all over the word. Then resolutions in UN asking US to interfere.
    Bush 1 hesitated for a very long time mostly because Iraq was considered ally.
    Than Japan declared that it will give 50 million to US. That was followed by pledge of hundred billion from EU. So Bush eventually started war with previous ally and did push out Sadam from Kuwait.

    Bush 2 war was already Globalist war according to detailed plan to destroy totally power of Muslim world.

    • Replies: @anon
  235. PeterMX says:

    I can certainly see why this writer would not like a site like Russia Insider which does not conform to the orthodox high school history line that appears prevalent in most of the world which forbids the truth be spoken. After I posted numerous videos of German troops being welcomed all across the USSR as heroes in Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia and Estonia and a film clip of 200,000 Czechs in Prague pledging loyalty to their homeland, Adolf Hitller and the German Reich in 1942, Russia Insider began incorporating them in articles. Maybe it was just a coincidence, I don’t know. You would never get this information on an orthodox site and for many, perhaps a majority of people, that is good. People find it hard to reconcile the lies they have been told their whole lives with real history. I would put The Saker in that category.

    I wonder if the Germans referred to “Russians” as “sub-human” after news of their barbaric behavior on and off the battlefield began filtering back to Germany. Stories like disembowling a German soldiers intestine and wrapping it around a tree may have made the Germans hate the Russians every bit as much as you hate the “NAZIS”. To the Germans of the WW II era, you commies were the subhman mass murderers and real historians could expose this for all to see someday. The shocking atrocities the Red Army committed as it entered Germany, such as crucifying the inhabitabitants of the small town of Nennersdorf in East Prussia, with murdered women, chilldren and men littering the town didn’t help your reputation as sub-humans. The two million German women your army gang raped (with your British and American allies contributing to a much smaller degree) didn’t help your reputatin either. Bettween 14 and 20 million Germans were brutally expelled from lands they had lived on for up to 800 years (Konigsberg, now Kaliningrad) by you sub-humans.

    No Germans welcomed the Red Army – none, nor did they welcome your British, American (or Jewish) allies. Your victims included east Europeans too as your drunken, undisciplined army enterd Europe and Germany, cheered on by the Jewish propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg that urged the raping of German women in his propganda. Compare that to the films of people welcoming German soldiers across the USSR as friends and heroes. Murdering people, even your own, will do that. Even Jews being released from concentration camps fled with Germans, rather than see the Red Army.

    As for your 27 million dead Russians, Stalin once told Churchill the number of Russian dead was 5 million. But I’m certain many millions more Germans died than is reported. Oh, and Bismarck is spelled with a “c”.

  236. Anon[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @Flint Clint

    How do we really know that the people committing these crimes were Muslims? How do we know that they were not atheists? Many of these immigrants are not real believers.

    But, regardless, these European countries are full of law-abiding Muslims. The criminals are still the outliers. And because of this, any decent person in Europe is not going to be hateful towards Muslims.

    This entire line of hate-argument is futile.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  237. Talha says:
    @Richard P

    They’ve been busy raping many of women over the last couple of years throughout Western Europe.

    This is, to a degree, not that surprising. The West is attractive to a certain archetype of Muslim; they are disproportionately materially driven. Far too many of them come to the West to milk the cow (while the milk is still abundant) or chase after white women or not be bogged down by the restrictions in Muslim lands. The same goes for both lusty brown boys as well as Middle-Eastern thots:
    “Saudi teen granted asylum enjoys a glass of red wine and a rolled up cigarette (in cannabis-friendly Canada) as she continues to enjoy her new freedoms, a day after feasting on bacon”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6601789/Saudi-teen-granted-asylum-Canada-enjoys-glass-red-wine-rolled-cigarette.html

    Nobody comes to the West for any kind of spiritual benefit or learning; it is attractive to a certain archetype just as government attracts a certain archetype:
    “All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.” – Frank Herbert – Chapterhouse Dune

    Thus it is not surprising that these kinds of criminal elements are taking advantage of the more lax rules and rather permissive punishments.

    To a degree, this exists among the immigrant community in the US or Canada who were also disproportionately materially driven when coming here. However, since many of these guys are often from the upper crust (educated and wealthy) of the Muslim societies they left, the disease mostly presents itself as a bling-bling, high-roller, expensive-car/watch/mansion phenomenon. Deadly enough to the spirit and heart, but rather less aggressive and less damaging to others around them.

    The ones in Europe are often from the lower and un-educated classes, thus the problem presents itself more in the form of thuggery, drug-dealing, women-chasing/abusing, etc. Again – not super surprising. It’s a bit like wondering why there are a bunch of old white men living it up in places like the Philippines, Thailand and such – there is an archetype attracted to what’s available there as opposed to elsewhere.

    I remember when the Muslims of the UK asked the late Shaykh Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi of India (a mountain of spirituality and erudition) to settle in the UK and that they would make it as easy for him as possible. His response was along the lines of; “What have I to do with this place?”

    Anyway, just some thoughts. I do think Europe needs to get much harsher with its punishments and expulsions with criminal Muslims. The time to take the kid gloves off was a while ago. The thugs you are dealing with do not respect what they see as weakness.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  238. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Oh Ilyana, Reagan did quite a bit more. Iran-Iraq war began in 1980, and ended in Aug. 1988. You think Iraqi standard of living jumped up so much in the half-year Bush I was in office? (I’m sure you don’t. I guess yuo weree] just writing w/o giving much thought.)

    But anyway, you are way off from what I was asking. Bush I and the US coaxed into the war? Hardly how I remember it. In fact I suspect Bush Sr. & his Scull&Bones pals engineered the whole thing. But that’s just me. 🙂

  239. @Richard P

    My Dubai Expat Experience-

    …Blue-collar white and black American oil workers from Houston and other US oil cities intentionally eextended their work contracts so that they could keep their kids in Dubai international schools because public schools in their own backyard were so bad. One Houston family paid my colleague so he would allow their kid to finish his senior year in Dubai International School instead of returning to Miami because the public schools were so bad in their opinion. The thinking I heard from these US oil workers was that if their kids could stay in Dubai schools up to age 18 they would not get into drugs, promiscuous sex, be jumped by gang members etc. and instead would return to the US as young adults with formed identities. So how can Islam be so destructive if Dubai International schools are safer than the average US school?

    …I’ve worked all over the Arab Gulf and you’ll never meet a junkie much less be hassled by them. You’re never going to live in a Dubai flat and the sort of tweaker meth-induced idiocy I saw in Phoenix. When I was in Phoenix in the late nineties tweakers were everywhere stealing anything they could pick up-one stole my bicycle. In Dubai or Oman or Kuwait you won’t walk over heroin addicts taking a dump on the sidewalk or overdosing. Sure, there is drug use and I smoked hash myself a few times in Dubai but there were no crack houses like the ones in my Southeast Michigan city. No drug-related gangs.

    …There are no street gangs in Dubai or Kuwait or Oman that will assault passerby. In parts of Phoenix, this was a serious problem. Mexican gangs roved the street in 1998. I would not say white trash were quite as lethal as Mexicans or Blacks but some of them were a danger and annoyance.

    …Prostitution exists in Dubai but is not the horrific sight it is in the US. Sure, you can meet Russian hookers in specific bars. But 200 pound crack head black female horrors dressed in bikinis are not standing around soliciting aggressively on public sidewalks. Nor are Dubai truck stops filled with horribly emaciated and scabbed white female meth addicts known as “Lot Lizards” which you will see commonly in the US.

    …You’ll never-and I mean never ever-see a homeless person in Dubai of any race. You’ll never see a tent with a homeless person anywhere from Oman to Kuwait.

    …So tell me. If Islam is so primitive, than why can Emirates drink their water and Flint, Michigan residents in the USA have poisonous sludge running out of their taps?

    If Islam is so primitive, would you rather walk downtown through Dubai at night or Los Angeles or Detroit or Flint?

    …If Islam is so primitive why doesn’t Kuwait airport have potholes on the runway like the Detroit airport?

    …If Islam is so primitive, why are Gulf War Veterans in the US homeless-a huge disproportionate number-and there is no homeless at all in Kuwait City (I worked there).

    And if (They) are forcing whites to become moronic whigger porn-addict out-of-wedlock birthing drug addict Hollywood-controlled trash…why is this fate not befalling Arabs in Dubai or Kuwait who are their most formidable enemies? Why are Arabs holding up better than whites?

  240. @Jeff Stryker

    Jeff,

    You’re being kind of obtuse.

    Islam isn’t to thank for Dubai’s wealth or functionality; that would be fossil fuels, diamonds, gold, indentured servitude, high-end prostitution, tourism, and the fact that it’s a relatively isolated city-state and fragile ecosystem.

    If Islam were a sufficient cause of a functional society without bums or gang violence, Afghanistan should be a very different country, as of course they have both bums and gang violence. And so on down the list.

    And you know very well that what makes Flint, Detroit, and Los Angeles such bad cities, is the presence of blacks and latrinos.

    Of course, Islam is to some extent a sufficient cause of greater social morality, for example with prohibition laws. A huge part of western dysfunction comes from consumption of alcohol. One could say the same about their sexual morality, but that results in its own excesses — dead “prostitutes” in Dubai and Doha, to name just one.

    It’s all right to compare Dubai and whichever trash American city, but you’re far from proving that Islam itself is what makes it better. It’s far too complex for a single variable, anyway.

    • Replies: @Biff
  241. @Dr. Moreau's Biographer

    Public Law 102 – 14. H. J. Res. 104.

    … Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilation, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws…

    …Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world…

    …to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws…

    …Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state…

    1st Amendment – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…

    The most powerful legislative body in the world in D.C. honors the Noahide Laws by their own public Law respecting the Lubavitch movement and Rabbi Schneerson.

  242. @Anon

    So it’s the no true Muslim fallacy.

    It’s vexatious to have to take the time to present documents on an obscure internet forum.

    We know because the former Labour MP for Rotherham Ms Linda Champion and many other witnesses attested to the Muslim perpetration. As reported in various English and German publications.

    And all of the state executive officers from senior police to local councillors who had knowledge refused to act out of fear of being labelled racist. Or were in fact complicit in the sex trading. Right now, across hundreds of villages in Britain, the rape continues, because of the attitude that you express. Muslims couldn’t possibly be carrying out mass rape right? These Noble holy welfare recipients.

    The leaked documents from the aborted Royal Commission indicated that some of these children were raped in sequence and in turn by every single Pakistani et al they met in a single night. Five separate groups, in the case of one subject. Including a taxi driver who said theyd take her to the hospital after being gang raped with a clotheshanger.

    And the official findings that are suppressed even emit.

    So yes, one could probably widen the category of undesirables from Muslim to include black and brown people in general. But it was predominately Muslims.

    It was very telling when that corpulent pig faced Muslim sow Naz Shah said these little girls as rape victims should shut their mouths for the good of diversity. She said that in the House of Commons. On behalf of her constituency, the Muslim rapists.

    And Linda Champion lost her job. Because of the disgusting attitudes of racists and confabulists like you. Because she told the truth about Muslims and the other rapists she lost everything.

    Well now it’s on record. Despite all the efforts of the Jews and Muslims who run Britain to stifle justice and impede investigation.

    As for Sweden, Germany, France, all one need do is look at the names of the people arraigned even if we have to pretend they are non racial blank human subject matter units.

    Muslims in the West are parasites, with some experts saying all told 80% are on welfare.

    They are yet another instance of the robbery of whites to pay for the sustenance of other races.

    And they are rapists of an exceptional order. I wouldn’t leave my children alone with a Muslim pig if it was the end of the world.

    Since Salman Rushdie we’ve seen Muslim violence and intimidation used to destroy western values and suborn our institutions and wreck our economies.

    Hey guess what you duplicitous and slack jawed incredulous idiot. The mass rapes in Europe didn’t exist until the Turks were let in, and then the ‘Refugees’.

    Muslims have had a monopoly on mass collective violence in the West for a long time. That monopoly is an interesting artifact of peak social mood. Let’s see what happens next.

  243. @Jeff Stryker

    Because you don’t understand the nature of the ruling families in the middle East. Here’s a hint. Trace back the khameneis of Iran and see if you end up with Jews called Komnenes from near Algeria.

    Then extrapolate.

    Does Flint Michigan have fantastic amounts of oil?

    Has there always been a white working class?

    How many African Americans live in Dubai? Give or take?

    Think that Dubai would be as it is if it has the same proportion of African Americans?

    Hey, guys, the US should totally have a single payer universal health care system. It works in Finland.

    • Replies: @Richard P
  244. Arioch says:
    @Commentator Mike

    > The British and French never attacked Germany; they only declared war on Germany

    LOL.

    So will you put upon your own neck a non-removable collar with explosives and radio-initiator, with controller in my hands, from today and forever?

    If you won’t – you are aggressor.

  245. anonymous[398] • Disclaimer says:

    How to deal the Muslims?
    The way you deal with Islam, the same way you deal with any other old religions:
    the development of modernity
    Put it in details, just three steps:
    1.peace:
    maintain the power to defend yourself, but don’t attack others and always mind your own business.
    2. trade:
    do business, make money, get rich, so we agree with each other and appreciate something together.
    3. respect:
    I don’t infect you with my atheism/naturalism/agnosticism/scientism/superstitious, you don’t infect me with your God(any God/gods/goddess), no lecture, no pushing, no smear
    If there is no respect, anyone can take countermeasures, no blaming.

    I believe that as modernity continuously develop, all the old religion will die, die, die…

    What is WEST?
    To me, west does not mean white, developed, Christian, etc
    West means: pirates feel superior about themselves as they do have better weapons and fast boat to rob others.
    If the they stop have better weapons, stop looting, stop feel superior, they stop been the west, they become UK, EU, USA, become what they are.

    WEST can go die. So will the EAST.
    These words are created to divide, to tell others who is better, who is evil, who is rich, who is poor.
    North and South should also go die.
    They will die.

  246. Arioch says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    They can also add one more angle to those stars. New flag should be new, so why not?

    Six colours in that rainbow – six rays in those starts, would fit.

  247. Arioch says:
    @911 WAS A FRAUDSTER!

    > world opinion turned against the Czar and his government and set up the bloody overthrow of his regime by the Bolsheviks

    false

    Bolsheviks did not overthrow czarism.

    Bolsheviks overthrown liberal-Jewish overthrowers of tsarism.

    Learn at least basics about not so far away history.

  248. @PPB

    You’re more than welcome to ask as you please, PPB. Your demeanor is inherently inviting to tactful, mannerly discourse, and as such, greatly appreciated.

    It’s worth repeating that Islam doesn’t mandate a “one size fits all” where its practitioners exercise suzerainty.

    The Constitution of Medina laid the foundation for the world’s first federal constitutional republic, granting the right of absolute religious liberty to all subjects of the Muslim polity. In addition to the numerous covenants made between the Prophet and regional Christians, the Constitution serves as binding legal precedent by which a Muslim suzerain must protect said right.

    One of the most significant aspects of a Muslim’s affirmation of Islam as the religion of God is this: it acknowledges that faith cannot be coerced and allows for non-Muslims of all varieties to practice or not practice the religion of their choice. God would not have it any other way.

    Practically, there are very few aspects of Islamic jurisprudence to which non-Muslims living under the aegis of Islam are subject. A handful of offenses are capital: murder, rape, armed robbery, armed insurrection, and treason. The jizyah is far less than contemporary income tax in any given nation and automatically exempts one from military service. But, by and large, non-Muslims enjoy autonomous jurisdiction, adjudicating cases and controversies not according to The Qur’an, but rather, by the legal criterion of their choice.

    This is Islam, regardless of how faithfully Muslims have implemented said protection at any given time in history.

    And thanks again for being the change you want to see in the world.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @I'm Tyrone
  249. @Art

    /the people of Egypt fear the Muslim crazies and their quest for Sharia law./

    After Mubarak was removed from office, the elections that followed were the only ones that have genuinely reflected the general sentiment of the Egyptian public since that time. Those transparent elections demonstrated that the public wanted Morsi. The fact that there was some domestic discontent over Morsi doesn’t prove otherwise. It merely betrays Sisi’s exploitation of it as a means to depose Morsi and ascend to power.

    So, no … Egyptians don’t fear the Muslim Brotherhood. They fear Sisi.

    /another dark mark for the Jews – another proven anti-democracy act, flowing from Jew culture./

    It’s an even darker mark for Egyptians, but it’s difficult to fault them for their weariness. Ours is a time of great darkness and we won’t find light merely by shaking our fists at it.

    • Agree: Assad al-islam
  250. @Art

    Hmm – how do all those fine words square with honor and apostate killing? Those are the practices of Muslims, done in the name of their religious view of God.

    Salam Art,

    There are six main sects in Islam. Four Sunnis main sects, the Shia sect and a Ibadi. So each sect follows its own Sharia (Law) and they all claim that they are following the Sharia of the Prophet (saws). Imagine, that the Prophet left six Sharia, each one different from one another. What a perpetrate!

    For example, Bangladesh is a Sunni country which follow the Hanafi Sharia. So every Muslim abiding in Bangladesh has to follow the Hanafi Sharia, which is different from other three Sunni Shairas of Shafii, Maliki and Hanbali. During the times of the Prophet the apostate killing(s) was/were illegal, even the Prophet outlawed to excommunicate an individual as it gave power to scholars over the adherents. However, when the Prophet body was still warm and not buried yet, the religion was hijacked by the first Caliph abu Bakr and second Caliph Omar.

    There was lots of outcry from the Muslims as they didn’t recognize the Caliphate of abu Bakr. All the Traditions (Hadiths) were burned by the first three Caliphs abu Bakr, Omar and Usman. So abu Bakr came up with a new term and the supposedly Hadith he heard from the Prophet those people who didn’t recognize the Caliph are apostate en masses. All the Yemeni Muslims didn’t recognize abu Bakr as legit Caliph. so they were called apostate en masses, they became Kaffirs and a war was waged against those supposedly Kaffirs. There were lots of civil wars for about 50 years of Prophet demise. The fifth Caliph was third Caliph cousin, and from there on the Caliphate became a dynasty.

    The fifth Caliph started to cook Traditions (Hadiths) like the first three Caliphs. Reminds me of George Orwell “Animal Farm” as massive Hadiths, and contradictory Hadiths were sowed to create confusion just like in Animal Farm. Fifth Caliph handed to his son Yazid, who killed all the male members of the Prophet’s children and the female members were taken as war prisoner and tied bare feet behind camels without hijab and walked behind camels from Iraq to Syria. Then they were paraded in the bazaars of Syria. About 250 years later the contradictory cooked Hadiths were compiled as Authenticated Hadiths of the Prophet.

    I don’t like to do lengthy posts, so I will cover the honor killings later. In the meantime, I will answer some other posts.

  251. @AnonStarter

    Absolute nonsense. Absolute lies and putrid and pathetic Islamic propaganda.

    What you seem to be proposing is submission to Islamic rule and Caliphate in the West. Which is the same thing as accepting Jewish rule at a national level and Islamic rule at the local level.

    That’s not going to happen.

    “Faith cannot be coerced”.

    Ludicrous.

    ““Professional self-preservation as well as political correctness and economics has affected academic research in certain fields of study, in contrast to the fearlessness demonstrated by professors when unmasking horrors in such dangerous areas of investigation as Christian Europe (the burning of witches! colonialism!) and Catholic Spain (the ubiquitous Spanish Inquisition!). Islamic Spain is no exception to the rule. University presses do not want to get in trouble presenting an Islamic domination of even centuries ago as anything but a positive event, and academic specialists would rather not portray negatively a subject that constitutes their bread and butter. In addition, fear of the accusation of ‘Islamophobia’ has paralyzed many academic researchers.”

    “Those who portray Islamic Spain as an example of peaceful coexistence frequently cite the fact that Muslim, Jewish, and Christian groups in al-Andalus sometimes lived near one another. Even when that was the case, however such groups dwelled more often than not in their own neighborhoods. More to the point: even when individual Muslims, Jews, and Christians cooperated with one another out of convenience, necessity, mutual sympathy, or love, these three groups and their own numerous subgroups engaged for centuries in struggles for power and cultural survival, manifested in often subtle ways that should not be glossed over for the sake of modern ideals of tolerance, diversity, and convivencia.”

    “It is significant that Muslim leaders punished their own if they suspected a lack of Islamic zeal. Muslim warriors could be punished with death for apostasy, which contributed to the fervor of the invaders. According to al-Qutiyya, when Musa Ibn Nusayr’s son was named governor, he married the wife of King Rodrigo and began adopting Christian ways—and military leaders cut his head off in the mihrab of a mosque and sent his head to the caliph.””

    You people are such vapid and ineffectual liars.

    Not only is faith coerced among the Dar-el Harb, it’s coerced among the Muslim faithful as well. The penalty for apostasy is death. It may be used as a weapon of political intrigue rather then genuine religions adherence, but it’s absolutely comical to hear someone try and say Islam means the absence of coercion. Islam is totally characterized by submission and coercion.

    Anyone who wants to understand just how juvenile and deceitful this new version of the Saker is can read the Myth of the Andalusian Paradise by Dario Fernandez Harerra, Harvard PHD.

    This idea that Islam was some kind of constitutional Republic informed by freedom of religion is actually more of a lie then dyke Mary Beard of the BBC claiming that the typical Roman family in Britain was African American.

    None of these idiots have managed to address very basic ideas – like, what would happen to all the realist art in Europe depicting not just the Sacred subject matter but merely the human form? Why, it would all be destroyed, to be sure. If not by the Muslims, then by the Jews cleverly fomenting Muslims to act in their stead in cultural revolutionary destruction. Why is a statue of Jesus Christ any different from a statue of Robert E Lee in Virginia? Muslims would destroy statutes of Jesus, of Mary, and of the Saints and say they were doing it to honour Allah, and in their honour.

    An Islamic Europe would mean a destruction of art unprecedented in history. Prometheans and Islamists hand in hand, defacing and destroying Christian art and sigils and erecting their own in their place.

    In your last article, Talha and the other Muslim apologentzia could only say ‘Well Mr Unz, we have some gaylord GI Jo figurines in this tiny obscure unorthodox corner of the Islamic world, see – we totally do realism”.

    No you don’t. That’s why a Fatwah was issued on Salman Rushdie. He addressed this point at length in the Satanic Verses. I was struck by it as a 10 year old reading that book. He talked about how the height of Islamic artistic accomplishment was to go blind from painting the same 2d impressionist shite over and over and over again.

    “They ARE right when they observe a loss of identity of White Westerners, that is quite true, but they are naive to the extreme when they attribute it to “others” (whatever “others” happen to be blamed at that moment)”

    You aren’t even hilarious. You’re just insipid. Do you faggots think that, for example, having 85million invaders in the United States since 1965 has anything to do with loss of identity? Sweden, even absent Christianity if it is still Swedish is still Sweden. A Sweden where one fifth of the population is Muslim isn’t Sweden any more.

    Reading this shit from a Russian is nauseating. No, Putin isn’t an ethno-nationalist, because he is a Chabad-Lubovitzer like everyone else. He’s preferable to the Jewish Oligarchs, who just raped Russia incessantly, but he’s not some benevolent ruler.

    Nationalism in Europe is going to be irresistable. It’s barely started. We’ve had almost 80 years now of Globalist International Revolution Progressivism. We’ve had barely 5 years of the swing in the Pendulum.

    Whoever the Saker is, he should talk about Russia and Russia only. This material on Islam is laughable, and really reducing his credibility.

    “…thanks again for being the change you want to see in the world” – which is a phraseology used most often by the progressive Rainbow Left. How telling that Islam and the Rainbow Left meet in the middle, adopting the same subversive trope. Be the change you want to see by submitting to our preferences and betraying the good, the beautiful and the true.

    “it acknowledges that faith cannot be coerced and allows for non-Muslims of all varieties to practice or not practice the religion of their choice”.

    Hahahahaha. You’re a treasure. Because this is why there are almost NO Zoroastrians left in Persia, and practically NO Christians left in the entire Islamic sphere of influence. Because faith cannot be coerced, that’s why the Hagia Sophia is a Mosque. Because it can’t be coerced. Absolutely Haram nonsense.

    The only reason anything was preserved there in modern times in museum form was because of the Ataturks – who were Prussian.

    Non-Muslims don’t even enjoy ‘autonomous jurisdiction’ in Muslim jurisdictions that exist ‘today’ in places like Qatar. Tell me – what non-Muslims enjoy ‘autonomous jurisdiction’ in Saudi Arabia? Because there are non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  252. bjondo says:
    @Art

    Those are the practices of Muslims, done in the name of their religious view of God.

    Not quite,
    this practice by the various cultures that have honor killings
    is done to preserve the honor of the family
    not done because of their view of God.

    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Honor_Killing

    In a sense, the US slaughtering of Afgan, Iraq after 9-11 is honor mass killings.

    5ds

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @anon
  253. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @PPB

    Blessed be the castes:

    different templates for living suit different human “types”

    Sheesh, a kind and subtle racist bigot.

    … as one ascends the hierarchy

    But not in this lifetime, right? Meanwhile, you and all of yours search the trash heaps.

  254. @PPB

    I’m also reminded of William Blake’s statement that “One law for the lion and ox is oppression”. But the maintenance of social order will always require some degree of coercion, in one form or another, or from one source or another, to rein in human willfulness and indiscipline.

    Salam PPB,

    After the Quran the book of Imam Ali (as) called “Najhul Balagha” is considered second only to the Quran by most Muslims. The book is full of gnosis and spiritual teachings. The Suffis who are Sunnis call it “tasawwuf” They believe that Imam Ali and his family are the spiritual leaders and the Caliphs are political leaders. The followers (Shias) of Ali reject this differentiation and they claim that the Prophet (saws) was both a spiritual and political leader and he taught the Umma how to govern. The Shia call it “irfan” and they are called the “Irfanis”.

    The first pillar/principle of Shia Islam is “Monotheism”. If one looks deeply in Hinduism, they are Monotheistic too. They claim that if even God can come in Human Shape, then why did He come only one time, only on one certain people and at one certain time! Is He a prejudice God? Why can’t He come at different times, on different people and different cultures. According to Imam Ali, God doesn’t have a body, shape, spirit and/0r form. There are ninety names (attributes) of God in the Quran, and btw it doesn’t include Allah as it is not the name of the Creator. According to Imam Ali, one should deny these attributes to God, as it divides and multiplies God, and we move away from pure Monotheism. These attributes are for us to know God.

    Take the two attributes in Quran that God is First and Last. These two attributes are contradictory, as God is not bound with Time. Everything, we see around is Creation including the Quran, so the Creator cannot be creation. Everywhere in the seven universes, it is “Now” for God as Time has no effect on God. Thus, freewill as prayers do come true if done with good intentions. Maybe, I will do a different post if you are interested in between intentions and acts.

    The second pillar/principle of Shia Islam is “God is Just”. He sent many, many, many prophets throughout the history of mankind. The main Commandments are same, but Sharia (Laws) given to the prophets is different for their adherents. Thus, the followers of both Jews who follow Moses (as), and Christians who follow Jesus (as) are on true/straight path. Both Moses and Jesus are vessels (ways) to God for their adherents. God didn’t create Hell to fill the whole mankind. There are seven levels to hell, meaning the funnel where the bottom level is the smallest and the top level is the biggest. Since, God is Merciful and Just, there are eight levels for heaven. And, upside down funnel for the first level of heaven, where the rims of both funnels meet, the biggest level. So most mankind to begin with will be in heaven and not hell. As people repent they move out the the top level of hell, to the first level of heaven.

    Dante got his idea of levels of hell from Islam. But he has nine levels. Dante’s philosophers friends such as Averroes and Avicenna are in the top level of hell where most of the mankind be. In the eight level Dante put Prophet Mohammad and Imam Ali. And, in the last level the Satan Himself resides. Thus everyone is in the hell and heaven is for eternity. What is definition of eternity?

    In Quran it says God is expanding the universes, the creation! There is one verse in Quran that one day hell and heaven will be destroyed as the task of creating continues. According to Imam Ali, if we are eternal in heaven and hell, then God cannot be Last.

  255. @AnonStarter

    Practically, there are very few aspects of Islamic jurisprudence to which non-Muslims living under the aegis of Islam are subject. A handful of offenses are capital: murder, rape, armed robbery, armed insurrection, and treason.

    This. I’ve seen some on the dissident right say “At least when the Muslims take over they’ll put an end to feminism!” But even if muslims somehow managed to “take over” America, it wouldn’t make any difference since sharia only applies to Muslims. Christians who are smarting under feminist pastors and a feminized elite won’t be able to present their cases before a qadi; because they’d be told to go back to their own leaders and resolve their issues there.

    Many (not saying all) on the dissident right have a bizarre love-hate relationship with Islam. They see Islam as an implacable foe yet also wish they could emulate this parody of Islam that is lodged in their minds. They don’t realize that muslims themselves are struggling against the pathologies of a mechanized and atomized modernity, same as everybody else.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  256. @Art

    /Hmm – how do all those fine words square with honor and apostate killing?/

    Honor killing has no sanction in Islam. None. Find a precedent for it in the shari’ah, anywhere. Citing statistics from Pakistan or some other country doesn’t constitute proof of anything but the corruption of some Muslims, particularly since many Hindus also engage in it. Here’s an Islamic perspective for you — if, that is, you can be bothered:

    https://yaqeeninstitute.org/jonathan-brown/islam-is-not-the-cause-of-honor-killings-its-part-of-the-solution/

    You’ll find a number of prominent scholars who condemn honor killing cited therein.

    As for apostasy, I’ve written here and elsewhere repeatedly about it. The haddith that appear to make it a capital offense betray a corruption that occurred during the Abbasid reign, when simple apostasy became relegated to insurrection against legitimate political authority. Moreover, there isn’t a single example of any individual having been killed for apostasy during the life of the Prophet, and there were, in fact, individuals who left the religion in his lifetime.

    And what, exactly, do you offer other than the usual guilt-by-association logical fallacy? You talk a great deal about the supposed evils of Islam, yet the alternative you offer is nothing — no consciousness of God, no sense of morality, nothing upon which to build a society that will weather the storm of coming tribulations.

    So tell us, Art … What do you have other than the usual bigotry as your own society slides further into a cesspool of moral turpitude?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Assad al-islam
  257. @bjondo

    Your effort is commendable, bjondo. I’ve seen some very good responses from you in this thread.

    Wikiislam, however, is renowned for its anti-Islamic disposition. Take care when citing from it, if at all.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
    , @bjondo
  258. @I'm Tyrone

    /Christians who are smarting under feminist pastors and a feminized elite won’t be able to present their cases before a qadi; because they’d be told to go back to their own leaders and resolve their issues there. /

    Would those Christians be so powerless that they could not establish communities independent of these pastors? Become your own ministers and the Muslims are obliged to guarantee your protection as an autonomous polity with its own jurisdiction.

    There’s no reason to imagine this couldn’t be realized.

    • Replies: @I'm Tyrone
  259. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    In your last article, Talha…– we totally do realism”

    I had no part of that particular conversation. The Muslim world has its own art forms and aesthetics. If you don’t like them, who cares? Everyone’s a critic.

    My conversation for you was about how the people most dangerous to European Christians have historically been European Christians – you guys have a history of killing each other in bloodbaths that are barely rivaled by anyone else. The Chinese come in close or on par with their own civil wars.

    You want to talk religious coercion; again – you take the cake – the religious wars of Europe have no parallel anywhere else:

    “These laws (Theodosian Codes 16.1.2 and 16.5.6) are significant for many reasons. They mark the first time the legal code coerced people to become Christians. They made orthodox catholic Christianity the official dogma of the church and suppressed the Arian factions. The laws established a pattern which would become more pronounced as Theodosius’ reign progressed of using the apparatus of the state to suppress diversity of religious opinion. The church can only regret that before all was done, people calling themselves Christians persecuted pagans, Arians, Manichees, and Jews. Many of the persecutors did not hold the name Christian out of zeal for Christ, but because it was politically correct.”
    https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/301-600/theodosius-issued-an-edict-11629680.html

    Which is why – as I pointed out previously:
    “Instead Nestorians found sanctuary under Islamic rule where their doctrines were closer to those of the Muslims…the persecution of more extreme heresies continued. They included the Paulician sect, which was brutally suppressed by the Byzantine authorities…At the start of the 11th century a related sect called the T’ondrakeci was still recorded, many of its surviving remnants fleeing to Islamic territory where some of its followers, the supposedly ‘sun worshipping’ Areworik fought for Damascus during the 12th century…In most places, however, Muslims were outnumbered by local Christian communities though the latter, mostly being adherents of non-Orthodox, non-Greek churches, tended to support their Mulsim overlords or at least to remain neutral in the Muslim struggles against the Byzantine Empire.”
    Manzikert 1071: The breaking of Byzantium

    As for the “Myth of Andalusian Paradise”…yeah, it’s a total myth that it was paradise. It was however arguably better than what cam before it:
    “Even that last vestige of toleration of Judaism evaporated in 638 CE when the Sixth Council of Toledo reaffirmed the policy of forcibly baptizing all Iberian Jews. In fact, Toledo VI went far beyond Sisbut’s policy, not only advocating mandatory baptism, but declaring that the king’s right to rule was dependent on his working to eradicate Judaism…”
    https://www.pdx.edu/honors/sites/www.pdx.edu.honors/files/11.%20Phillips%20Ess

    “The Sixth Council of Toledo confirmed the canons of the Fourth Council. King Chintila
    committed himself not to allow anyone who is not Catholic to live in the kingdom. Moreover, a converts were obliged to make a profession of faith (placitum). Moreover, baptised Jews were blamed for any apostates found in their families. They were to kill their relapsed relatives by themselves in public….The Ninth Council of Toledo ordered converted Jews to spend all Jewish and Christian holy days in the presence of a bishop so as to prove the veracity of their faith.”
    http://www.nnet.gr/historein/historeinfiles/histvolumes/hist06/historein6-benveniste.pdf

    In fact, it was only when you guys started distancing yourself away from religion that you stopped having the perennial religious wars. And then you still couldn’t help yourselves and found some other reason to burn down your own cities and genocide each other.

    Sure you can remove every Muslim on the continent and you’ll look around and eventually do what you guys naturally do every few decades; beat the living crap out of each other (while inviting others – like Muslims – in for the pile-on):

    “Oh, but THIS time it’ll be different! Becuz muh huwite superioritaaay!!!”

    Yeah, buddy, sure…we can all see those Ukrainians and Russians are like BFF (also witness the Croat/Serb love-fest in the last comment section: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/deconstructing-islamophobia/?showcomments#comments).

    So yeah – any Muslim who knows their share of European history pretty much scoffs at this kind of virtue-signalling. But please, continue the virtue-signalling while you get your backsides handed to you publicly by trannies that turn your virtue-signalling in your face:

    Peace.

  260. @AnonStarter

    Wikiislam, however, is renowned for its anti-Islamic disposition. Take care when citing from it, if at all.

    Salam AnonStarter,

    Agree, there are lots 0f hate sites, empowering the satan!

    In Quran there are two versions of Creation of Seven Universes which appears to be contradictory. The first version is for humans who are bound with Time and understand Time. It says the seven Heaven and earth a similar number was created in “Six Ayams” Yom meaning day is singular and ayams is plural which is three or more. Ayams means, “Days, Periods, Seasons and so forth”

    The other version is for God and when anything God Wills then, “Be, and it is” (كن فيكون kun fa-yakūnu) is a phrase that occurs several times in the Qur’an, referring to creation by Allah. In Arabic the imperative verb be (kun) is spelled with the letters kāf and nūn:

    36:82– His command (of creation) is only that when He intends (to create) something, He says to it: ‘Be’, so it instantly becomes (existent or visible and continues becoming).

    And, God didn’t punish Adam and Ever. His intention was to create Adam and put it on earth as His Caliph (representative). Thus, Adam didn’t have any choice as it was in God’s Plan! No choice, no responsibility. BTW, in Quran Adam asked forgiveness and repented for defying God’s command. And, God forgave him. Adam doesn’t claim that Eve made him to defy God. And, Eve claimed a whisper (saytan) deep down in her breast suggested to her. She wasn’t punished either!

    Well we all have this whisper (satan) deep down in our breast, and for this we do the utmost Jihad is Jihad al-Nafs (struggle against oneself)!

  261. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Citing statistics from Pakistan or some other country doesn’t constitute proof of anything

    Well, the very group that others have cited to make their argument basically say the same thing:
    “Civil society, including media, legal, NGO personnel and even Islamic jurists have all spoken out against honour crimes and have advocated for a strong stance against it. With the law in place, this issue should have decreased drastically. Nevertheless, the problem continues to exist…In Pakistan, the concept traces back to Pakhtun and Baloch tribal customs. It has however since become prevalent in both Sindh and in Punjab, resulting in murders being committed across the country without any regional or class boundaries.
    https://www.af.org.pk/pub_files/1366345831.pdf

    Having come from Pakistan and being familiar with its various groups, I can vouch for this. My family used to live in Sindh province – this was not heard of. It started becoming more prominent as instability in the northern border areas of Pakistan have pushed tribal folks into cities like Karachi.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  262. @Flint Clint

    /Tell me – what non-Muslims enjoy ‘autonomous jurisdiction’ in Saudi Arabia?/

    Non-Muslim expats in the petroleum industry have reported that they enjoy freedom of worship within the communities they inhabit within Saudi Arabia.

    But this is really beside the point. There isn’t a single country on earth that holistically implements shari’ administrative law, Saudi Arabia included. Some of them implement aspects of it, while most of them use templates of jurisprudence borrowed from European nation-states. Anyone who studies the subject seriously knows this.

    And I’ve already addressed your points in our previous correspondence. You seem to think that spending inordinate energy repeating the same polemics will somehow make your contention more compelling.

    Newsflash: It doesn’t.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  263. @Talha

    Thanks for the info, akhi.

    The vast majority of Muslims have no problem affirming that honor killing has no place in Islam. I have to wonder if the vast majority of non-Muslim Americans have any problem affirming that fornication and licentiousness have no place in America.

    Any takers?

    was-salaam.

  264. @Talha

    /I had no part of that particular conversation. The Muslim world has its own art forms and aesthetics. If you don’t like them, who cares? Everyone’s a critic./

    He’s lying, in any event. I never said what he attributes to me.

    His contention was that Muslims will necessarily demolish and thereafter prohibit three-dimensional art if and when they assume suzerainty over Christian communities, which is rank nonsense.

    It’s the same old boring drivel: Muslim shut down cinema. Break statue. Destroy bacon. Me no like. Me no wan Muslim.

    Ugh.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  265. @Talha

    Because in Christianty logic is preeminent.

    Arianism infringes the first commandment. If Jesus is distinct from God worship of Jesus breaches the first commandment. The
    Athanasian Trinity reconciles Jesus Christ with the First Commandment. Because one of the first principles is the law of non contradiction.

    God’s court is not some Game of Thrones intrigue or Ottoman satrapy where one royal can be set against another.

    Arian was a heretic. Orthodoxy is important, because first Jesus isn’t consubstantial with the Father, next homosexuals are being married and Muslims are being permitted to practice religion in Christendom.

    Maybe the Spanish Ninth Council of Toledo was faced with the same kind of brazen Jewish dual loyalty that has destroyed the United States. Make no mistake. It is dead. All that remains is the shape of the economic dissolution and partition. The Spanish made the mistake of thinking that baptising Jews would have any impact on their behaviour and loyalties.

    Spain, just like the entire Arabian gulf and former Byzantine Empire was under no compunction to give Islamic heathen invaders freedom of religion. Why should they? Why do you act as if the Spanish court did something wrong?

    Frankly, loyalty tests are going to become a feature of the post Collapse West. The Luciferian Promethean Satanic elite certainly have their own loyalty tests. The RFID chips as the condition of accessing credit and accessing institutions (mark of the beast) is already here. The Australian constitution forbids dual citizenship. That will be a startimg point for any neo Confederacy.

    I think that whites as a tiny beleaguered minority will resist brother wars. There are enough external enemies. That said the white left is going to need checking. But then again, all it’s excesses revolve primarily around ritual surrender to non whites.

    Yes the Balkans and former Soviet Union prove the impossibility of pan nationalism. But a mutually benign European nationalism is certainly possible. The days of Freemasons and Jews fomenting intra European wars are over. No white German is going to raise a hand against a white Frenchman again etc. Or, it will be vastly harder to engineer.

    Yes the west is post Christian. But that doesn’t make it pre Islam. The Prometheans are trying to replace Christ with Islam precisely because Mohammad the pedophile warlord better suits their Satanic aims. A proliferation of Kalergi coolies suits their economic models and presents a much lower threat profile. Muslims love child rape, why would they care what a man called Epstein is doing etc.

    You don’t know what virtue signalling is.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Talha
    , @Talha
  266. @Art

    Hmm – how do all those fine words square with honor and apostate killing? Those are the practices of Muslims, done in the name of their religious view of God.

    Salam Art,

    I see AnonStarter has done a good job answering your queries. Now I will discuss the so called, “Honor Killings”. Remember, Hadiths (Traditions) were cooked by the Caliphs to justify their own rule and agenda. If a Caliph and/or his near friends were pedophile, then cook a Hadith that Aisha saying ((not the Prophet saying) that she was six when Prophet married her and nine when he consummated the marriage to her. Hadith should be saying of the Prophet and not the companions singing their own songs. Also, her various Hadiths imply that she never gave consent for the marriage. It could be misconstrued for rape. In some Sunnis Sharias the girl consent is not required for marriage, only the father’s consent.

    God gave the same main Commandments to all Prophets but different Sharia for their adherents. Jesus, proclaiming on the Mount that he has come to uphold the Commandments and not to abandoned the Commandments. We see in NT, Jesus is himself breaking two major Commandments, which in my opinion is not true and an insult to Jesus.

    The first one he breaks is “Thou shall not commit fornication”. When a woman was presented to him for committing fornication without the other party who committed the fornication with her. Nor any witnesses were presented in the kangaroo court. What Jesus does is establish her guilt and then forgives her. Jesus moved on, wonder what happened to the woman, while her guilt was established in front of the mob. The woman and mob remained, he moved on. Thus, now rampant sex (fornication) by unmarried individuals. Especially, at teen age years where hormones creates havoc in the body and they are not allowed to marry, but can have rampant fornication.

    The second major commands Jesus breaks is when he insults his mother, when she informs him there is no more wine. So alcohol is halal.

    In Islam one cannot be tried for fornication, unless four witnesses seen the penetration takes place. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack. However, when the girl gets pregnant then she bares all the brunt. In Shia Sharia, pregnancy by itself is not considered guilty for fornication, it has to be properly investigated. In other Sharia pregnancy is considered guilty for fornication and no more investigation is to be done, as four witnesses have not seen the penetration taken placed.

    It is just like Jesus kangaroo court where he establishes the guilt of women. My dad was 16 when he married my mom who was 14. Now the Muslims countries are becoming Western enlightened that before 21 years of age, they can not marry. Way, way past the hormones playing havoc in one’s body.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @Art
  267. @AnonStarter

    You did no such thing.

    You addressed nothing.

    You gave me a series of Islamic phisukoi who were pre 13th century, most of whom were apostasised for their work and then declared that Islam promotes scientific innovation.

    And you pretend a whole series of discrete events like the destruction of the Bamiya Buddha’s to a sculpture in the Indian Ocean never happened. Or the Salman Rushdie Fatwa etc insultingly treating everyone like they are idiots. The point about art is very real. I’ve been to Qatar and the gulf. You see the absence everywhere.

    Freedom of worship is not autonomous jurisdiction.

    The very first principle of the common law is equality before the law, and law in common.

    How does Sharia which amounts to legal inequality and law in personam reconcile with ‘autonomous jurisdiction’ within common law?

    How do the two coexist? The entire point of citizenship is common jurisdiction.

    You want in effect, a state within a state. Which is the whole point made by many jurists about why Islam is inimical to the West.

    But you don’t notice.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  268. @Assad al-islam

    It’s actually quite amusing hearing the Muslim moral themes on the parables.

    The miracle at Cana is not about Jesus dishonouring Mary. He is expressing his affection to her and acknowledging her parental authority by complying with her request.

    And the adulterous woman from John establishes his authority to forgive as God the Son and the imperative of forgiveness and self examination of conscience for Christians.

    The mindset he is allowing fornication is really alien.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  269. @AnonStarter

    Would those Christians be so powerless that they could not establish communities independent of these pastors? Become your own ministers and the Muslims are obliged to guarantee your protection as an autonomous polity with its own jurisdiction.

    Culture always trumps religion. Western culture, and north American culture in particular, overwhelmingly favors women’s interests over men. Left to their own devices, North American Christians will forever create feminized churches that favor women’s imperatives over men; just as feminists and their ‘male’ allies do the same in the secular domain.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  270. peterAUS says:
    @Flint Clint

    ……the Balkans and former Soviet Union prove the impossibility of pan nationalism. But a mutually benign European nationalism is certainly possible…..

    Especially when threatened by a mutual enemy, as in this case. Happened before, several times.
    As, for example in:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna
    I mean Islamists don’t have a problem to focus on Christians first and then to each other (Shia/Sunni).

    Balkan (when tossing the types out in 1912):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Balkan_War
    Which, of course, didn’t stop Serbs and Bulgarians going against each other a couple of years later.

    Balkan (the latest example):
    Serbs and Croats against Muslims 92-93. Muslims, with all Islamic world behind them, against Serbs and Croats.
    As we speak both Saudi Arabia and Iran,TOGETHER, are…ahm….helping Islamic entity in Bosnia.

    Or..hehe…in practical terms:
    Europeans clear the Islamic threat first. Then they go against each other, or not. Priorities, human nature etc. I guess.
    Or, first thing first; the common enemy.

  271. Didn’t realize there were so many willing dhimmis among the Unz commentariat.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  272. @AnonStarter

    So tell us, Art … What do you have other than the usual bigotry as your own society slides further into a cesspool of moral turpitude?

    Salam AnonStarter,

    This one is a weird bird. His motto is, “Think Peace — Do No Harm — Forgive — Western Thoughts”.

    For the last 200 years all those wars were NOT committed by Western Enlightenment and Christianity, especially WW1, WW2 and the last twenty years of war on Muslim’s countries. No sir, it was the Boogeymen made us do it, meaning the Jews. No sir, we are peace loving enlightened human beings…

    Give the world a break with your BS….

  273. bjondo says:
    @AnonStarter

    Not familiar in slightest with Wikiislam.

    Didn’t have time to read.

    Wanted something for Art and it came up.

    Thanks.

    5ds

  274. @Flint Clint

    And the adulterous woman

    What is the definition of adultery? Is the definition same as fornication or different?

    In Hebrew OT the word is used is “Zina”. Same word “Zina” is used in the Arabic Quran, which in both cases mean fornication.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  275. @I'm Tyrone

    Western culture, and north American culture in particular, overwhelmingly favors women’s interests over men.

    Fifteen years ago, Quran gave the woman rights to own properties. The command in Islam is not “Honor your father and mother”. It is “Honor your mother, honor your mother, honor your mother and honor your father. If the God is such thing a father, then in Islam God is first and foremost a mother who loves her pups unconditionally and then a father who love his pups conditionally.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  276. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    Because in Christianty logic is preeminent.

    And man, we’ll beat it out of you if you get it wrong!

    Arian was a heretic.

    OK – so; “When we do it a whole bunch it’s awesome!!! Because – our reasons!”

    Maybe the Spanish Ninth Council of Toledo

    Yeah, and the source stated clearly:
    “The Sixth Council of Toledo confirmed the canons of the Fourth Council. King Chintila
    committed himself not to allow anyone who is not Catholic to live in the kingdom.”

    All you have is speculation.

    “But maybe we have all sorts of awesome reasons for our compulsion of religion!”

    But: “When you do it – it is totally wrong and bad, very bad!”

    Muslims are being permitted to practice religion in Christendom.

    Precisely – Islam has always been more tolerant that classical Christianity – not even a close comparison. Europeans only stopped compelling religion when they started losing religion in the first place. And the reason for that is, they realized – after the 30 Years War – that if they kept that up, there would be no one left on the continent.

    I think that whites as a tiny beleaguered minority will resist brother wars.

    Yeah, that’s what I said. Once you get rid of all the darkies, you’ll go back to your favored pastime – killing each other in massive amounts.

    But a mutually benign European nationalism is certainly possible.

    Yeah – and maybe Muslims will colonize Mars…that’s possible.

    No white German is going to raise a hand against a white Frenchman again

    Please – the only history they have is that they’ve been killing each other. Now, there is a game changer, they might be gay-marrying each other, so I’ll give you that.

    Muslims love child rape, why would they care what a man called Epstein is doing etc.

    Apparently, neither does the West – I mean nobody is really talking much about how there’s a damn good chance that the guy in the Oval Office was involved with that stuff.

    Yes the west is post Christian.

    Yup.

    But that doesn’t make it pre Islam.

    Maye, maybe not.

    trying to replace Christ with Islam…better suits their Satanic aims.

    Man, that nonsense sounds like a hell of a lot of sour grapes because you have Gay Pride loud and proud marching in practically every single capital in the West, but this is how we deal with that nonsense:

    You can talk all you want, but you guys dropped the ball so hard that it rolled off the court. YOU literally have statues of Satanic rituals and prayers happening outside capital buildings in the WEST – YOU guys do:

    You’re telling me that Islam would put up with this crap? What are you smoking?!

    You don’t know what virtue signalling is.

    I certainly know hypocrisy when I see it and, boy – did you hit that one out of the park with your extensive comment. Thank you!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  277. peterAUS says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    Self-hate is a peculiar thing.

    But, then, I wouldn’t give virtue signaling and online self-flagellation too much credit.

    It’s one thing to contemplate own place in such a world, at leisure, in one’s comfortable sitting; quite another feeling it in real life.

    Most of such types are simple hypocrites.
    Hehe…you don’t see them emigrating to Iran, Nigeria, Sudan or whatever. Not even to Bosnia.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  278. @Flint Clint

    But this is really beside the point. There isn’t a single country on earth that holistically implements shari’ administrative law, Saudi Arabia included. Some of them implement aspects of it, while most of them use templates of jurisprudence borrowed from European nation-states. Anyone who studies the subject seriously knows this.

    Obviously, you can’t be bothered to read what I actually wrote. Had you done so, you wouldn’t be so foolish as to consistently misrepresent my words.

    Perhaps when you manage to calm down and stop writing like a junkie jonesing for a fix we can have a real conversation. The fact you can’t see how plainly your words exude anger is truly pitiful.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  279. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    which is rank nonsense.

    As any trip to an antiquities museum in the Muslim world will prove out. The only people interested in destroying that stuff are Daesh types. But they were also known to blow up mosques, so that’s really no surprise.

    It’s the same old boring drivel

    It is boring, but at least it gives someone like you and I to put counter evidence, backed up by citations. It’s a fair deal as far as I’m concerned. The target is not your interlocutor, it is the audience at large.

    The vast majority of Muslims have no problem affirming that honor killing has no place in Islam.

    Yup – I used to live within walking distance of this young Hanafi mufti, Hisham Dawood, very bright man – very mellow and friendly (studied in South Africa for his iftaa degree):
    “The concept of honor killing has no basis in Islam. In fact, it is a major crime. A person guilty of honor killing will be put to death in an Islamic state where the qādi (judge) has the right to regulate and implement capital punishment.”
    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/81335

    Wa salaam.

  280. @Talha

    /Because in Christianty logic is preeminent./

    Risible.

    I’ve asked this question to Christians many times and never — not once — received a satisfactory response:

    If the conviction that Jesus is God is a central tenet of Christianity, then why didn’t Jesus make this unequivocally clear in any one of the “synoptic” gospels?

    Without fail, they cite John 10: 30, which is as equivocal as it gets. Jesus himself explains it four verses later, alluding to Psalms 82: 6 — in which case, there are far more “sons of God” than Jesus himself, which suggests a figurative, rather than literal, understanding of the term.

    In short, there is no direct quote or passage from Jesus that supports the most foundational tenet of Pauline Christianity. None.

    And Clint tells us that “logic is preeminent in Christianity”?

    Nigger, please.

  281. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    Spain, just like the entire Arabian gulf and former Byzantine Empire was under no compunction to give Islamic heathen invaders freedom of religion. Why should they? Why do you act as if the Spanish court did something wrong?

    (Facepalm)…you have no clue that all of this was BEFORE the Muslim invasion. The targets of these rulings were Jews and pagans in the Iberian peninsula.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Art
    , @Flint Clint
  282. @peterAUS

    /It’s one thing to contemplate own place in such a world, at leisure, in one’s comfortable sitting; quite another feeling it in real life./

    Indeed, it is, Pete.

    Speculating appears to be a popular pastime in the west, what with the decline of religious faith and all.

    “Self-hate” is a conscious act commonly understood to practitioners of all Abrahamic religions, particularly monks and priests, who see their ego as the most formidable obstacle to keeping company with God.

    Of course, I wouldn’t expect the self-indulgent to even begin to comprehend it. You probably imagine it to be synonymous with “white guilt” and such.

    Hehe … Cute. Pedestrian, but cute.

  283. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    make this unequivocally clear

    To be honest with you, I’ve always thought the holy ghost thing has been the weakest leg on that stool. But that’s just me.

    If Christians like the whole God incarnates into some person, that’s fine – this is not anything new actually; the Hindus and Buddhists have had their avatars as have plenty of other religions. Divine becoming man or volcano or cow or whatever is fairly boiler-plate as far as religions are concerned. In fact, some Hindus simply see Jesus (pbuh) as another avatar – why not? Fits perfectly well:
    “You see, in a sense, Hindus don’t really see Jesus as a Christian at all….In my particular tradition, and among other Hindus, He is seen as much more, as an Avatar, specifically a Shaktavesha Avatar or an empowered incarnation.”

    The only real objection to the above I can see is something along the lines of; “NO – God would obviously ONLY become incarnate as a Jewish guy!”

    Anyway, it’s not my religion so their various doctrines on the matter are not my concern; if people think that three-in-one or a five-in-one or a ten-in-one deity makes sense to them, fine by me. What I do know, is that this is the major issue that most converts out of Christianity and into Islam have. So it appeals to some people and obviously not to others.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  284. Art says:
    @Assad al-islam

    I see AnonStarter has done a good job answering your queries.

    Assad al-islm,

    I thank you and AnonStarter for your comments and insight into Islam’s factions. Islam is not all good or all bad. The extreme bloody elements of Islam must be unreservedly confronted.

    As a Christian, I cringe when the words “Christian Zionist” comes up. The blood being spilled by them is unquestionably wrong. Jesus was about Peace. I wish we Christians, would condemn the takeover of our culture by Jews.

    Art

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  285. @Assad al-islam

    In an another excellent news:

    “United Arab Emirates Diplomat Praises Syria’s Assad for ‘Wise Leadership’”

    A United Arab Emirates diplomat has praised Syrian President Bashar Assad’s “wise leadership,” describing relations between the two Arab countries as “solid and special.”

    The comments by Charge d’affaires Abdul-Hakim Naimi came during a ceremony late on Monday in Damascus to mark UAE’s National Day.

    Naimi said he hopes that “peace, security and stability will prevail Syria under the shadow of the wise leadership” of Assad.

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/united-arab-emirates-diplomat-praises-syria-s-assad-for-wise-leadership-1.8219171

    When it comes to Masjid al-Quds no Muslim will sell out the place where the Prophet (saws) ascended to the heavens. The wise leaders of both Arabs and Iranians are one Ummah and they will never sell out Islam. The Ummah is never been so united and scarified so much!

    I think by now both Pakistan and Imran Khan have got the memo.

  286. @Talha

    My conversation for you was about how the people most dangerous to European Christians have historically been European Christians – you guys have a history of killing each other in bloodbaths that are barely rivaled by anyone else.

    Yes sure, but the Muslims are no better in that respect. Tamarlane, one of the greatest mass murderers in history, was a Muslim. And he fought wars against other Muslims.

    Interestingly, from wikipedia:

    Exhumation and alleged curse

    Timur’s body was exhumed from his tomb on 19 June 1941 and his remains examined by the Soviet anthropologist Mikhail M. Gerasimov, Lev V. Oshanin and V. Ia. Zezenkova…..
    It is alleged that Timur’s tomb was inscribed with the words, “When I rise from the dead, the world shall tremble.” It is also said that when Gerasimov exhumed the body, an additional inscription inside the casket was found, which read, “Whomsoever opens my tomb shall unleash an invader more terrible than I.” In any case, three days after Gerasimov began the exhumation, Adolf Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa, the largest military invasion of all time, upon the Soviet Union. Timur was re-buried with full Islamic ritual in November 1942 just before the Soviet victory at the Battle of Stalingrad.

    • Replies: @Talha
  287. @Talha

    Christian kingdoms in the northern Iberian peninsula did accord Muslims religious liberty, but only reciprocally, while Muslims held the south. As the north strengthened and expanded its dominion, said reciprocation began to diminish until it disappeared altogether.

    No good deed goes unpunished.

    • Replies: @Talha
  288. @Talha

    It’s not that apotheoses don’t have a historical precedent, akhi. Any who study ancient religion are well aware of the parallels among Mithra, Horus, and Jesus, inter alia, with respect to death-and-resurrection myths.

    But even in Hindu texts, the purported godhood of any given figure is made explicitly clear. We’re talking about a textual basis, something iron-clad and unequivocal, hard-wired into Scripture as a foundational tenet of religion.

    La ilaha il ALLAH is as unequivocal as it gets, repeated throughout The Qur’an.

    The same cannot be said of the foundational tenet of Christianity. There is no explicit, unequivocal statement of Jesus in Scripture that provides reason to affirm his alleged godhood.

    So, no … logic is not preeminent in Christianity when its first and foremost tenet fails when tested against Occam’s Razor.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @PPB
  289. Art says:
    @Talha

    Legitimate Questions That Need Answers

    Talha,

    The honor killings (sanctioned or not by Islam) are an extension of male Muslim cultural control over women.

    Why must Muslim women cover up – are Muslim males all weaklings – do they have no personal control over their sexual cravings? Are women property in Islam? Is Islam protecting women or controlling them? Is Islamic0 culture just old world male domination?

    Of course, those are insulting questions – but maybe they need a thorough answer?

    Art

  290. @Art

    The extreme bloody elements of Islam must be unreservedly confronted.

    Agreed!

    Daesh and Caliph Baghdadi are godsend for Muslims as it showed the dark faces of Islam. It basically, forced Muslims to rethink the institution of the Caliphate and other dark areas.

    Jesus was about Peace.

    So was Prophet Mohammad (saws). But atrocities committed by Christians under the banner of Christianity and atrocities committed by Muslims under the banner of Islam has nothing to do with Prince of Peace Jesus (as) and Mohammad (saws)

    The two Commandments emphasized by Jesus are in OT. Love God to extreme and love your neighbor like yourself. By loving the neighbor like oneself, one shows her/his extreme love for God. Therefore, God fearing Jews believe in the same two Commandments. Any atrocities committed by Jews under the banner of Judaism, has nothing to do with Moses (as).

    Any hatred and bigotry should be condemned as we are all equal in the Eyes of Just God!

  291. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Yes sure, but the Muslims are no better in that respect.

    Actually they are – the level of blood spilled is simply not the same – especially over religious differences.

    Tamerlane was a Muslim among the Mongol warlords who – as Steven Pinker so eloquently put it in his book on historic violence -perfected “high throughput massacre” – this is one of the best book on the four best known ones (Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Hulegu, Tamerlane):
    https://www.amazon.com/Mongol-Warlords-Genghis-Tamerlane-warriors/dp/1853141046

    No doubt his armies easily picked up a kill count that put him in the top ten massacres of all time. I would highly recommend going to Necrometrics.com – it has a great analysis of wars and death counts throughout history and includes sources and the methodology for arriving at said numbers:
    Tamerlane is ranked at #9 – not a good place to be on the Day of Judgment
    http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#20worst

    And he fought wars against other Muslims.

    Yup. Now he was the guy that potentially pulled Europe’s chestnuts out of the fire. The Ottoman juggernaut was rolling through Europe at the time and was defeating many large combined Christian armies. Tamerlane attacked them from the East and they were forced to put resources to that region. At the Battle of Ankara (which incidentally included a valiant showing by Serbian heavy cavalry on the Ottoman side, but could not save the day) he captured the standing caliph and the Ottomans entered a period of chaotic civil war.

    Yes, Muslims have had their disputes and backstabbing – no doubt – but they have always been more united in the end than European Christians. The reason for the Latins losing the Crusades was this exact issue, they just had more reason to fight each other in Europe and simply couldn’t be bothered to divert resources to the matter. And the inter-Muslim vs inter-Christian body count simply has never been the same.

    For instance, one of the bloodiest post-WW2 conflict regions in the world that no one really talks about are the various civil wars that happened in the late 90’s and are still going in a huge region of central Africa (Congo, Angola, Burundi, etc.). These eclipse any numbers for anything in the Middle East combined (the estimates are from hundreds of thousands to millions) and these countries are all majority Christian – many topping 90%.

    In fact, after the Rwandan genocide, the biggest winner in the area was Islam:
    “Roman Catholicism has been the dominant faith in Rwanda for more than a century. But many people, disgusted by the role that some priests and nuns played in the killing frenzy, have shunned organized religion altogether, and many more have turned to Islam…With killing all around, he said, the safest place to be back then was in a Muslim neighborhood. Then as now, many of Rwanda’s Muslims lived crowded together in the Biryogo neighborhood of Kigali. During the mass killing of Tutsi, militias had the place surrounded, but Hutu Muslims did not cooperate with the Hutu killers. They said they felt far more connected through religion than through ethnicity, and Muslim Tutsi were spared.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/07/world/since-94-horror-rwandans-turn-toward-islam.html

    “A quarter of a century on, one of the relatively unknown results of the massacre is the rise of Islam in Rwanda. Muslims shielded, saved and harboured Tutists as they were chased down by Hutus; where there was once only a handful of believers, it’s estimated that the Rwandan population is 10% Muslim.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07gmxt6

    Peace.

  292. Talha says:
    @Art

    Hey Art, it’s been a while – I hope all is well and a good wholesome dinner is on the menu.

    extension of male Muslim cultural control over women.

    Well, yes – in certain tribal areas as the document from the NGO I cited makes clear.

    Why must Muslim women cover up

    God says so:

    are Muslim males all weaklings

    No, but if God says something, you listen.

    Are women property in Islam?

    No, but in certain tribal cultures, they do operate like that. Islam is actually in conflict with this. Now – some may not obey the rules, but the rules are the rules just like if a bunch of Muslims were to drink alcohol, doesn’t change the rules. We need to get Muslims to listen to the many Muslim scholars that have ruled against this and obey the rules – or the court system needs to come through and punish them.

    Is Islam protecting women or controlling them?

    Both. There are rules that control women and rules that control men.

    Is Islamic0 culture just old world male domination?

    Well, the word many use is patriarchal. Now, that term is not a native term, our term is that men are qawwam of women and qawwam basically means more of a caretaker or guardianship role. Men are supposed to be in charge of the household and are responsible for the entire financial upkeep of the family as well as making sure they are protected and their interests are looked out for.

    So, for example, a father is a guardian over his daughter and is fully involved in the decision of who she marries. He is looking out for her interest and is there to make sure she doesn’t make a mistake she regrets. This is why the majority of schools consider the father (or guardian’s) permission for the marriage just as important as the woman’s permission – both have to be in agreement before the marriage can go through. Why? Simple – out of all males on the planet, the father is – by default – the one who cares most for his daughter’s interest and well-being and is most invested in her future. Thus he is the male who negotiates on her behalf and in her interests against other males; that is what a guardian does.

    The whole females-should-have-the-exact-same-legal-rights-as-men experiment seems to have led to some major malfunctions.

    I’m not offended by the questions at all; though these may not be the answers you would like to hear.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Humblenotry
  293. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Sure. But, in the end…they deserved to lose it. They were quibbling among themselves for tiny kingdoms and allying with Christian monarchs to one-up each other, not to mention the decadence. When the last Muslim ruler of Granada signed over sovereignty to the Reconquista, he started to weep and his mother upbraided him, saying: “Do not weep like a woman for what you could not defend as a man.”

    Wa salaam.

  294. @Art

    The honor killings (sanctioned or not by Islam) are an extension of male Muslim cultural control over women.

    False. It isn’t about control, it is about reputation. Honor in the west refers to personal integrity, but in the tribal cultures of south Asia and the middle east, it refers to reputation. An honor killing is supposed to reclaim lost reputation. Honor (west) = integrity, Honor (East) = Reputation. Islam does not sanction honor killings.

    Honor killings are quite common across India and Pakistan – https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/3IbsGCZX9YfwKnn5Jh7CUN/Why-the-honour-killing-Bill-won8217t-work.html

    According to the article listed above, most honor killings in India are done by the warrior and peasant castes of Hindus. Brahmins and Merchant castes generally eschew the practice. Muslims converted from the lower castes (like most Pakistanis) practice honor killings. Muslims converted from the upper castes (Memons, Bohras, Khojas) don’t do it.

    Why must Muslim women cover up

    The same reason conservative Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Sikh women cover up – modesty and strong family values. Not sure why you have a hardon for Islam when many of the things you decry are easily observable in other communities as well – provided you have eyes and are inclined to use them.

    • Replies: @Art
  295. @Art

    /Why must Muslim women cover up – are Muslim males all weaklings – do they have no personal control over their sexual cravings?/

    You fail to mention that Muslim men also have a dress code: beard, kufi and loose clothing, often a shalwar or thobe. This, of course, has nothing to do with Muslim women lacking control over their “sexual cravings,” but rather, it is a divine mandate, one enjoining modesty upon the faithful. We want to be respected for our spirit, not our ephemeral appearance.

    Are you unable to withstand the fact that some women aren’t accessible to your eyes such that you might evaluate their physical beauty? Is it that you project upon Muslim men your own sexual craving for exotic women of the east?

    Frankly, your question is more amusing than offensive. Do you honestly think non-Muslim men of the occident aren’t thoroughly whipped and subjugated to a de facto matriarchy? Take a good, long look at yourselves: you can’t even say that a woman might be inviting trouble upon herself due to the manner in which she dresses without being accused of defending rape. Now that’s completely and utterly absurd. Wholly irrational.

    And given the proliferation of sexual depravity in America, do you really imagine American men aren’t weaklings where sexual desire is concerned? Who are you trying to kid? In a libertine society, anything goes — including gonads, straight to a mason jar on display in your girlfriend’s curio cabinet.

    If anything, we acknowledge human weakness and take measures to safeguard ourselves against wrongdoing where sexual desire is concerned. In other words, we’re realists, which is far superior to pretending non-Muslim men are “master of their domain” without guidelines for modesty while no man with more than two brain cells to rub together seriously believes such nonsense.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Art
  296. @Assad al-islam

    I’m not mocking you.

    No no Fornication means the same thing.

    It’s just such a different mindset to understand that biblical event as allowing fornication. I’ve never heard that before. It’s a very different exotic interpretation.

    I suppose I can understand why. Can you explain more?

    Lol it just feels like the Jews trying to find an excuse to have sex.

  297. @AnonStarter

    It’s also weird when Muslims sound like the more hardcore Presbyterians.

    There are so many instances where Jesus proves his authority.

    Probably the more signal instance:

    “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

    In John.

    And if you claim that Islam is monotheistic you will run into similar problems on the nature of the prophets.

    Jesus proves his divinity again and again and again.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  298. @AnonStarter

    Yeah.

    Except his crucifixion, resurrection, and Ascension.

    And constant references to his heavenly authority. Which is why the Jews crucified him in the first place.

    I mean this is ridiculous.

    There is zero evidence then Mohammad was anything other then s paranoid schizophrenic plagiarist.

  299. @Flint Clint

    /“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”/

    Still not unequivocal. The passage can just as easily be understood to mean that he’s asserting the authority of prophethood for his time and place.

    Try Mark 10: 18 and Luke 18: 19 for starters. Nobody who claimed to be God would so clearly distinguish himself therefrom.

    Islam is unequivocally monotheistic, no “similar problems” whatsoever. Muhammad is the Messenger of God, not God Himself. It can’t get any clearer.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Flint Clint
  300. Art says:
    @Talha

    Hi Talha,

    “Why do we wear Hijab? Because Allāh ﷻ said so.

    Why cover a smile?

    Hmm — I think God made beauty to be seen – a woman’s smile always enlivens, it is exquisite, its humanity brightens, and it warms everything.

    I think the Muslims have misread God in this matter.

    Art

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  301. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    If anything, we acknowledge human weakness and take measures to safeguard ourselves against wrongdoing where sexual desire is concerned. In other words, we’re realists

    For very, very good reasons. This one thing might be the linchpin that can bring a society collapsing in on itself in very short order:
    “Unwin found that when strict prenuptial chastity was abandoned, absolute monogamy, deism, and rational thinking disappeared within three generations….Unwin’s three main predictions — the abandonment of rationalism, deism, and absolute monogamy — are all well underway, which makes the ultimate prediction appear to be credible…the collapse of Western civilization in the third generation.”
    Why Sexual Morality May be Far More Important than You Ever Thought
    https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @AnonStarter
  302. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Islam is unequivocally monotheistic, no “similar problems” whatsoever. Muhammad is the Messenger of God, not God Himself. It can’t get any clearer.

    Yup:
    “Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle.” – reported in Bukhari

    We literally say the tashshahud in every prayer, multiple times a day:
    “Wa ash-haddu anna Muhammadan ‘abduhu wa rasooluhu”

    And I bear witness that; Muhammad is His slave and messenger

    You really, really cannot possibly get clearer than that.

    Wa salaam.

  303. Art says:
    @AnonStarter

    Are you unable to withstand the fact that some women aren’t accessible to your eyes such that you might evaluate their physical beauty?

    Really – we are talking about head covering.

    Hmm — have you ever enjoyed a woman’s casual smile that is not your spouse?

    Sorry but that cannot be a sin against God.

    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @AnonStarter
  304. bjondo says:

    Don’t know much about clothing
    even the stuff I wear.

    I will venture to guess
    the clothing we are shown
    Arab, Muslim women wearing are
    perfect protection from heat, wind, dust, cold,
    eyes of the colonial perverts, insects.

    For men, the kaffiyeh excellent
    against heat, wind, cold, dust, insects,
    and a great minor weapon/tool. Can snap
    a knife out of a hand or apple from a tree
    or choke a squat.

    Simple articles that are
    time tested and efficient.

    Why are some troubled?
    When did the concern appear?

    Go to your malls and enjoy your:

    400 lbs in spandex or pins through
    labia, eyebrows, lips, tongues. penis, nipples,
    or public “transitioning”.

    5ds

  305. @AnonStarter

    The proof that Jesus is God is His bodily resurrection from the dead.

    If you would like textual proof of His resurrection, see comment #49, video presentation by scientist Dr. James Tour.

    For extra-Biblical proof see the most recent findings on the Shroud of Turin @ Shroud.com.

  306. Talha says:
    @Art

    Hey Art,

    Why cover a smile?

    Hijab is the head covering, niqab is the face veil. Maybe you are confusing the two.

    I think God made beauty to be seen

    Well, sure – some things yes and some things no.

    If you only proceed with that axiom, well – what’s the limit? With that particular logic, some can say that twerking in public is fine or going topless, because -well, “God made beauty to be seen”.

    The rule for us is fairly clear in this regard. Women can expose face and hands in public – it was something that was common wisdom not too long ago in parts of the West actually:

    That’s OK though, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. No problem.

    Cheers and have a good dinner.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  307. Art says:
    @Talha

    Talha — very interesting.

    Why Sexual Morality May be Far More Important than You Ever Thought
    https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin

    Thanks — Art

  308. bjondo says:
    @Art

    Art (and others),

    man is usually worried about man.

    Go to most areas of “deplorables”
    and enjoy a female’s smile, female
    who has a boyfriend or husband, get
    ass kicked or chest shotgunned.

    My experience in ME before Iraq 2,
    young girl could go out at night
    and walk anywhere in her
    community totally safe.

    Culture, customs, traditions, safeguard.

    ME for the ME, West to its Judaized self.
    One has culture, tradition, future.
    The other is dying soon to be dead.
    5ds

  309. @SeekerofthePresence

    Here is a helpful interview of Josh McDowell, I believe former head of Campus Crusade for Christ.

    His book “Evidence that Demands a Verdict” examines as if in a courtroom the case for Jesus’ Godhood. It was vital in bringing me to the Christian faith years ago.

    A more recent book is “Evidence for the Resurrection.”

    The first book closely examines Jesus’ claims for Himself.
    Both contain much Good News.

    More on McDowell @ Josh.org

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  310. Art says:
    @I'm Tyrone

    The honor killings (sanctioned or not by Islam) are an extension of male Muslim cultural control over women.

    False. It isn’t about control, it is about reputation. Honor in the west refers to personal integrity, but in the tribal cultures of south Asia and the middle east, it refers to reputation. An honor killing is supposed to reclaim lost reputation. Honor (west) = integrity, Honor (East) = Reputation.

    Honor (west) = integrity, Honor (East) = Reputation

    Very interesting – and in this matter of “honor killings” probably true.

    If my daughter strays from my control and other people may find out — I must kill her to save MY reputation — that is crazy and wrong — “life itself” has precedence over reputation (Western Christian thought).

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @I'm Tyrone
  311. @Art

    /Hmm — I think God made beauty to be seen – a woman’s smile always enlivens, it is exquisite, its humanity brightens, and it warms everything./

    And if a woman should choose not to display it out of modesty? Would that break your little heart?

    It seems that is you, rather than Muslim men, who wish to claim the entirety of womankind as your own personal property. Arguendo, even if a husband or father were to make her don the niqab, what gives you, a complete stranger, the greater right to remove it? I see no warrant in Christian Scripture for such an absurd idea. In fact, here’s what we find:

    But now I tell you: anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her is guilty of committing adultery with her in his heart. [Matthew 5: 28]

    So who is trying to possess whom by compelling Muslim women to cast off the niqab? Sounds like you’re just bitter you can’t gratify yourself and you’re rationalizing your desire as some kind of sublime obligation.

    Truly ridiculous.

    FWIW, most Muslim women don’t wear the niqab. The vast majority of them wear the hijab, which leaves the face exposed. Were you familiar with the Muslim world, you’d know this and refrain from appearing as if you hadn’t the slightest clue as to what you’re talking about.

    Alas, it can’t be helped.

    • Replies: @Art
  312. @Art

    /“life itself” has precedence over reputation (Western Christian thought)/

    Except where unborn children, wage slavery, and Muslims are concerned. Then it’s A-O.K. to give a phony reputation for moral superiority precedence over “life itself.”

    Ah, “Western Christian thought” … So incredibly consistent.

  313. PPB says:
    @AnonStarter

    “La ilaha il ALLAH is as unequivocal as it gets, repeated throughout The Qur’an.”

    But still subject to misunderstanding, as though “Allah” referred to a distinct personage— or worse, a tribal deity proclaiming himself the “one and only”. But such are not only the limitations of human understanding, but of language itself, and its need to use number as an analogy that points beyond number. In that capacity, “One” is a most powerful symbol, and “Allah” a most powerful name/sound/vibration which echoes and transmits the same.

    “The same cannot be said of the foundational tenet of Christianity. There is no explicit, unequivocal statement of Jesus in Scripture that provides reason to affirm his alleged godhood.”

    Most certainly, and which if seen rightly only elevates his stature. This issue might not ever have become a bone of contention if Christians had simply remained the disciples of Jesus, those who saw in him an exemplary vessel of divinity and a human ideal to emulate, but had no need to create a rigid theology around him or follow the priesthood who created it.

  314. @Art

    If my daughter strays from my control and other people may find out — I must kill her to save MY reputation — that is crazy and wrong

    Exactly, but don’t forget that men get honor killed too. In some parts of India, for example, if a lower caste man marries or becomes involved with an upper caste woman, rest assured pieces of him will be unearthed in separate dumpsters across town. I might add that face (honor/reputation) is prevalent ALL across Asia. In China it is called mianzi (面子) and is basically your social reputation which increases and decreases depending on your level of adherence to Confucian protocol. The Chinese concept of face is identical to the Arabs and South Asians in that it is about compliance to social protocols and not personal integrity.

    This is why I believe hating Islam is a waste of time. Cultures ultimately remake religion in their own image. It’s not surprising then that South Asian muslims practice caste among themselves. It is not surprising that the richest South Asian muslims (like the Memons) were converted from Hinduism’s upper merchant caste. It isn’t surprising that Persians celebrate Nowruz (نوروز) to this day even though it’s a Zoroastrian custom. No other Muslims in the world celebrate Nowruz except the Persians (and Afghans I think). Cultures always remake religion in their own image and religion doesn’t have the kind of sway that people think it does.

    “life itself” has precedence over reputation (Western Christian thought).

    That is why I think the West is better than the rest, even in its current degenerate state. But that is another conversation.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Art
  315. Biff says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    And you know very well that what makes Flint, Detroit, and Los Angeles such bad cities, is the presence of blacks and latrinos.

    All that fuck-up-ness due to a single variable.

    It’s all right to compare Dubai and whichever trash American city, but you’re far from proving that Islam itself is what makes it better. It’s far too complex for a single variable, anyway.

    Suddenly, a single variable has nothing to do with it.

  316. @AnonStarter

    Crucified, resurrected ascended into heaven seated at the right hand of the father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.

    Luke 18:19. Why not talk about Luke 18:31 which comes literally in a few sentences where Jesus refers to his fulfillment of the prophecies and death and resurrection and Ascension? God the Son recognised the authority of Mary. Turning attention to God the Father isn’t a denial of divinity.

    Then in Luke 19 he called the temple in Jerusalem ‘my temple’.

    Mark 10:18 the same. Dual nature. Don’t address me as a man, address the Divine whom I am an emanation of.

    Dual nature isn’t hard to understand, because men carry it as well, in possession of the soul.

    That’s not just another prophet. He makes it very very clear he is the culmination and fulfillment of all the prophets.

    Jesus’ divinity is not in question. I don’t have time to sit on a forum all day and engage in apologetics with Muslims who will ignore it regardless.

    There is zero evidence that Mohammad was anything other then a paranoid schizophrenic plagiarist pedophile, a more successful Joseph Smith. A conman and actually probably created by the Donmeh Jews. His theology amounts to saying God told be I can have another wife, or that kingdom, and maybe another wife again etc.

    Christians are not going to debate with Muslims on such things in the West.

    Working in Hasbara esque pairs makes zero difference to anything that has been said. Islam has its place, but not in the West.

    The point of this article was basically to impute that Islam is a viable solution to western identity. It isn’t, because it would be a contradiction in terms. For all the reasons outlined.

    The denial of Christ the King is yet another reason why Muslims won’t be in the West in the fullness of time, alongside the economic dependency and parastisom and discivic rape and violence

    • Replies: @PPB
  317. PPB says:

    “This is why I believe hating Islam is a waste of time. Cultures ultimately remake religion in their own image.”

    Buddhism is probably the classic example of this tendency, but then Buddhism was never particularly dogmatic in its orientation to begin with. And though I’ve never been in a Swedish or Syrian church, I’d imagine that there’s a major difference in atmosphere between the two. Even looking at photos can tell much of that story.

    It would be interesting to see how Islam, at least with respect to its external contours, might be reshaped after a century or two if it established itself firmly and enduringly in the West. But one could also ask whether the West as we know it today still be recognizable by then.

  318. For the last 200 years all those wars were NOT committed by Western Enlightenment and Christianity, especially WW1, WW2 and the last twenty years of war on Muslim’s countries. No sir, it was the Boogeymen made us do it, meaning the Jews. No sir, we are peace loving enlightened human beings…

    Give the world a break with your BS….

    The way you wrote that it’s hard to tell whether you were being sarcastic or not, and if it was AnonStarter’s or Art’s BS you’re referring to.

    Regarding that question I’d say it’s a bit of both. When the King /i.e. government) says to go to war people go to war. But if the Jew finances and advises the King whose fault is it? Then there are the Protocols, Balfour and the creation of Israel – all quite significant in WW1 and WW2. And who benefits most from the wars on Muslim countries over the past 20 years? Had there been no Israel where it is in the Middle East I doubt there would be all these wars, regardless of the historical hostility between Western Christians and Eastern Muslims. Also most Muslim countries were going in a more secular and nationalist direction until the Iranian Islamic revolution. Makes one wonder who is behind the revival of the old Muslim brotherhood fundamentalism originally thought up by British intelligence around the time of WWI. Can’t just be the Saudis. And who is a bigger threat to Israel: Arab nationalist socialist regimes that were on the rise in the Arab world since Nasser or the Islamic fundamentalists?

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  319. @Biff

    South Africa is a very resource rich state with a black population and inherited hard infrastructure. How’s it going? The Dubai if Africa.

  320. @Talha

    Sir. As you know, I spent years in Dubai and Oman.

    Please don’t tell an American who was on the fringes of the US urban hellscape and witnessed the potential depravities of Mestizo Cholos and Black thugs in Phoenix and Southeast Michigan as well as the casual degeneracy of the white underclass that the ME is full of primitive animals while Phoenix or much of Los Angeles or Southeast Michigan is the height of civilization.

    Let me state the following from my own experience-

    I was never menaced by gangs in Dubai or Oman or Kuwait. I was menaced by gangs in Phoenix. You are much more likely to be killed in America by Mestizos or blacks or even underclass whites like the “Speedfreak Killers” of Central California than by any Muslim in Dubai or Oman or Kuwait.

    In Phoenix, I once witnessed a black crackhead running down the street high with his pants down while a white crack head had his arms around him. You’ll never witness this in Dubai or Oman or Kuwait.

    As far as morality is concerned, prostitutes are a dime a dozen in most Islamic countries. If you and I want to go out an hire a hooker in Karachi, we can do so. But in the Islam world prostitution is high-class and discreet. Dubai is wall-to-wall with prostitution but you won’t see black 300 pound crack-induced female madness peddling their wares downtown. You won’t see meth-ravaged white emaciated women AKA “lot lizards” in gas stations who shamelessly solicit men who are not interested.

    In any Arab Gulf country like Dubai and Oman you’ll never see homelessness. Pakistan has heroin addicts, of course, but they are not dropping their trousers to take dump outside somebody’s Deli on a San Francisco main street.

    I suspect you drink and most Muslims do-this is fact-but there are no drunk and disorderly people in Dubai or Oman.

    As for human trafficking, there are no black pimps in the Arab world who are enslaving runaway white girls. In California, this happens at every bus stop.

    We must also examine the UK system than allows child grooming. In America, if men were hanging around junior high schools offering 13 year old girls heroin like UK, there would be 100 cops there in 30 seconds.

    Why is drug abuse, teen sexual promiscuity, single motherhood, gang activity such a problem in the US compared to Dubai or Oman?

    Why do drugs flow through US public schools?

    • Agree: Richard P
  321. @Anonymous

    He contributes by telling the truth about Saker. Saker is a misinformed fool. Frankly, the nature of his state is that it is self inflicted. There is plenty out there that refutes the man, yet he ignores and worships the ground Putin walks on.

    That’s putting it nicely. The actual problem is that Saker may be a liar.

  322. PPB says:
    @Flint Clint

    “Dual nature isn’t hard to understand, because men carry it as well, in possession of the soul.”

    And there you’ve identified the issue, whether you intended to or not. The issue isn’t the dual nature itself, it’s the tendency of Christianity as a doctrinal, dogmatic and institutional religion to conflate these two dimensions of human reality– to ascribe the the human or created aspect what is true only of the transcendent and eternal aspect. From this perspective, “Christ” becomes coterminous with Jesus of Nazareth, which then leads to a “personal savior” cult and all the rest of it .

    One thing I have to say on behalf of Islam is that it has managed to hew more closely to its original inspiration than any other major religion I’m aware of. Christianity had a truly wonderful starting point, but has largely tended to veer off course since then. Let’s hope that it can regain its bearings, and with them, much of its original potency.

  323. Talha says:
    @I'm Tyrone

    Cultures ultimately remake religion in their own image.

    Or…a religion that claims to be universal needs to be able to accommodate various cultures to a reasonable degree without losing its essence.

    For instance, if you look at the Muslim scholars in the picture, you will see their dress is different from the scholars of Morocco or Syria or Pakistan. This is a good talk on the juristic maxim “al-‘ada muHakkamah” or custom is a basis for rulings:

    There is no expectation we all become cookie-cutter Arabs, well except for Salafi-Wahhabis – I actually have seen them expect everyone to become some variant of Najdi Arabs.

    The term is also called ‘urf and this is a great definition:
    “Urf: Custom. In the central Islamic countries, it is the common name for unwritten customary law, in contrast to written Islamic law codes or other legal canons. Adat is a synonym used in other parts of the Islamic world, especially Indonesia. Urf often refers to three different types of legal categories: the way common people maintain order, engage in social interactions, or conduct business locally, for example, in the marketplace or in wedding ceremonies; the legal decisions made by a ruler and his representatives; and the practices of local courts. According to the Malikis and some Hanafis such as Ibn Abidin, urf is considered to be a source of law.”
    http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e2438

    There is little doubt that Islam (as adopted by Germans or French or Bolivians) would be both distinct in its expression as between Moroccans, Indonesians, Turks, Senegalese and Chechens, but you would be able to drop anyone of these guys into any other one’s mosque and the guy would know exactly what to do and how to join the congregational prayer and join them for fasting if it was Ramadan.

    Peace.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @I'm Tyrone
  324. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @bjondo

    ….the US slaughtering of Afgan, Iraq after 9-11 is honor mass killings.

    US antagonism for Iran is out of spite. After losing face, being kicked out of Iran in 1979, all the malign policies of US are massive honor killings.

    – The support of Iraq in 8-year war on Iran,
    – harbouring MEK, (first at Camp Ashraf, now in US and Albania),
    – approving MEK and Mossad assasinations, sabotage,
    – fabricated accusations (the infamous MEK-provided laptop),
    – deadly sanctions imposed on the people of Iran –

    This is all “Honor Killing.” There is no rational justification. The US was exposed and embarrassed, so it’s bullying Iran out of spite.

  325. @Talha

    That’s fine. The logic is still the same.

    What is clear now to all white men and Christians is that freedom is evil. Only the truth sets you free.

    Jews Muslims Homosexuals all.non white nations allow no freedom of speech. Why should whites or Christians?

    The Spanish therefore owed nothing to the Jews of Toledo. Why should they?

    The separation so called of Church and State simply created a vaccum for Islam and Luciferian Prometheanism.

    With mutual recognition of the European nations as a pillar of western identity there need be no intra Christian conflict in the near and medium term.

  326. Richard P says:
    @Flint Clint

    Hey, guys, the US should totally have a single payer universal health care system. It works in Finland.

    If the United States didn’t spend $1.1 Trillion a year on the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) and another $38 Billion a year gifted to Israel, an anti-Christian, terrorist conglomerate just like Saudi Arabia, every American would have free, top-notch healthcare without an increase in taxes.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  327. @Talha

    I agree with some of what you wrote in that post.

    Nobody comes to the West for any kind of spiritual benefit or learning;

    Yes one would think one has to go East for that but in my experience the East is also disappointing in that respect. The spirituality in the East, whether Islam, Buddhism, or Hinduism, tends to be shallow, superstitious, hypocritical, and commercialised. You should just see the amount of black magic, ghosts, witchdictors, curses, and dark superstitious spirituality programmes on Indonesian television – far more than anything on western television. And as far as converts to Islam who go to those countries, I’d say most do it to join the brotherhood and to link up with the more hardcore politicised terrorist outfits rather than for genuine spiritual reasons.

    It’s a bit like wondering why there are a bunch of old white men living it up in places like the Philippines, Thailand and such – there is an archetype attracted to what’s available there as opposed to elsewhere.

    That may have been true 20 years ago but nowadays the vast majority of sex tourists in that region are Indians and Arabs, and their behaviour is far worse and more abusive than that of the dirty old white men.

    In another post you wrote:

    Man, that nonsense sounds like a hell of a lot of sour grapes because you have Gay Pride loud and proud marching in practically every single capital in the West, but this is how we deal with that nonsense

    I thought you identified as an American not a Turk. But I get it, the “we” refers to Muslims. You’re being hasty in your judgement there. The muslim world looks like it will be liberalising in all the worst aspects under the offensive of western Judeo-globalism. Gays are coming out into the open, especially in Tunisia where they’re being politicised. And Saudi has now allowed their women to travel overseas without permission of their guardians so girls such as the one you mention would not be able to seek asylum in Canada or anywhere else. Still I suppose those wanting to live permanently in western decadence, rather than enjoying it only on their holidays, will come up with new excuses to seek asylum, like claiming they’re lesbians and oppressed for their sexual orientation, and will get a receptive response from all those western lesbian politicians and ministers. Then Saudi will have to relax those laws too. And so it goes down the slippery slope, just following the West in lockstep but a little behind. They’ll have women or trans muftis preaching in mosques and teaching in madrassas soon; they already have plenty of closeted gays and bisexuals doing that as it is with all the sexual abuse and pedophilia that goes on, sometimes covered up but increasingly being exposed and sometimes prosecuted. And the religious cops in Muslim countries are some of the worst perverts and abusers, and many are corrupt and take bribes too. Watch out for Indonesia – they tend to be quite tolerant with respect to sexual orientation and all matters sexual. And Saudi is opening up to all the worst of Western cultural influences: Hollywood movies and crap rap music. Introducing identity politics could be useful for the rulers of Muslim countries as it distracts from other serious problems the people there face and diverts their struggle into these other less threatening side issues.

    • Replies: @Talha
  328. @AnonStarter

    But you don’t understand the point.

    We’re talking about Sharia’sq status in the West. I don’t care what Saudi Arabia does or doesn’t so. That’s their business.

    It doesn’t matter whether or not Sharia is practiced holistically or partially in the West. It doesn’t even matter if I agree with some elements of Sharia, which I in fact do.

    What you are saying is that Sharia should be afforded a jurisdiction over Muslims, who to some extent should be exempted from the general civic law.

    That affronts the basic western principle of equality before the law. It doesn’t matter the extent of the jurisdiction, or whether it is advantageous or disadvantageous.

    If Muslims can have their own legal system, why can’t I?

    You are proposing separate laws for Muslims, whilst supposedly seeking only freedom of religion.

    These are very different things.

    It’s very clear that the only way Sharia can operate in the West is if it is opposed by force via Muslim electoral assumption of power or Muslim military force.

    That’s the problem.

    Why should Muslims get a better deal on divorce, or a worse deal on theft, just because they are Muslim?

    You see the issue?

    It can’t possibly work as a dual system without massive repression of western principles and Islamic threat of insurrection.

    That’s why so many Sharia courts exist in Britain now.

    Let’s see if they will be permitted elsewhere in the West.

    This is why Muslims have been chosen by Jews to destroy the West. Because of the inexorable logic of Islamic jurisprudence and vectors of force.

    That’s why conflict is inevitable.

    I’m not even saying Muslims will lose that conflict, I’m just saying that it is inevitable.

    Of course this is all theoretical because we know the law doesn’t apply to Jews, or gays, and to an extent blacks, especially black Jews.

    So it will be interesting to see how long whites agree to accept the authority of evil or selectively applied laws, as after all, they rely totally upon the acceptance and pleasure of the people they apply to.

  329. @Richard P

    It wouldn’t because blacks and Latinos outputs would simply overwhelm all inputs. It is totally impossible. Even with all the stolen trillions.

    • Replies: @Richard P
  330. @Art

    /Really – we are talking about head covering./

    No, we’re talking about niqab, a face covering. You’re conflating the two.

    /Hmm — have you ever enjoyed a woman’s casual smile that is not your spouse?/

    You’re rationalizing voyeurism. Your very own description of it as “warming everything” is a dead giveaway; that is the exact biological response experienced by a man during arousal.

    Were it otherwise, you would speak of sexually unspecific smiles. The fact that you don’t betrays your actual motive.

    /Sorry but that cannot be a sin against God./

    Obviously, you’re not familiar with the Ninth Commandment. The Hebrew hemed connotes envy, which is precisely what you’re demonstrating now. Not surprising, given the pathetic state of western Christianity these days.

  331. @PPB

    I’m Tyrone wrote:

    Cultures ultimately remake religion in their own image.

    You added:

    And though I’ve never been in a Swedish or Syrian church, I’d imagine that there’s a major difference in atmosphere between the two. Even looking at photos can tell much of that story.

    You can say that again.

    https://www.rt.com/news/474813-church-sweden-lgbt-altarpiece/

    But is this truly religion or blasphemy and sacrilege?

    • Replies: @PPB
  332. @Talha

    There is little doubt that Islam (as adopted by Germans or French or Bolivians) would be both distinct in its expression as between Moroccans, Indonesians, Turks, Senegalese and Chechens, but you would be able to drop anyone of these guys into any other one’s mosque and the guy would know exactly what to do and how to join the congregational prayer and join them for fasting if it was Ramadan.

    True, and I could say the same for a Filipino visiting a Catholic Church in Venice, but Filipinos and Italians are completely different people with very different cultures. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said in your post, but it doesn’t alter my argument in the least. I was not talking about the various expressions of Islam per se (an interesting subject in its own right) but that local/regional values exert a far greater influence on an individual’s behavior than does religion. Since you’re of Pakistani origin, let me regale you with an anecdote about a Pakistani friend of mine. He broke off his engagement because his dad discovered that his former fiance came from the Nai caste. His very words were “hum nai mein shaadi nahin karte.” Surprised? I’m not because I know that while Pakistanis have been muslims for 1000 years, they’ve been Hindus for 3000 years. Culture trumps religion. Another example would be the ethnic cleansing of Bengalis at the hands of Punjabis which eventually lead to the creation of Bangladesh. Bengalis and Punjabis are both sunnis, so what gives? Again, culture trumps religion.

    PS – I’m amazed at your knowledge of fiqh btw, it makes your posts very interesting to read.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Talha
  333. @PPB

    It would be interesting to see how Islam, at least with respect to its external contours, might be reshaped after a century or two if it established itself firmly and enduringly in the West. But one could also ask whether the West as we know it today still be recognizable by then.

    I’m curious about this too. Islam, like any other religion under the sun, will be shaped by the cultural currents of the land in which it takes root. There is nothing wrong with a religion being re-shaped so long as it is done organically by culture.

  334. @PPB

    /But still subject to misunderstanding, as though “Allah” referred to a distinct personage— or worse, a tribal deity proclaiming himself the “one and only”./

    The very word for Arabic derives from the root ‘araba, which means “to clarify.” There is no misunderstanding about God when referring to Him as ALLAH. Even the ancient Arabs understood Him as distinct from all other “gods,” since the word itself connotes this unmistakable distinction: neither a person, nor circumscribed to a single tribe.

    English, on the other hand, presents tacit challenges. “God” can be made plural or feminine. There is no room for such declination with the Arabic “ALLAH.”

    /Most certainly, and which if seen rightly only elevates his stature. This issue might not ever have become a bone of contention if Christians had simply remained the disciples of Jesus, those who saw in him an exemplary vessel of divinity and a human ideal to emulate, but had no need to create a rigid theology around him or follow the priesthood who created it./

    Pauline dogma was advanced as the final stage in a protracted plan to conceal the identity of the Messenger of the Covenant (“that prophet” as mentioned in John 1: 21-24, and distinct from Jesus, the Messiah); the plan itself originated in the lifetime of Solomon and is referenced in Jeremiah 8: 8 (“the lying pens of the Scribes”).

    The motive for it was to reserve the advantage of Islam (constituting submission to and knowledge of God) strictly for the House of Judah. (As the Arabs ascended by application of Islam, so they fell into terminal collapse upon abandoning it. Jews enjoy their power largely because they apply particular aspects of Islam in order to acquire it.) By fabricating the apotheosis of Jesus, Temple Israel provided the descendants of Japheth with a novel permutation of paganism (to which they were already accustomed), supplanting their previous sun deity with an explicitly “Jewish god” and terminating the account of Scripture before the fulfillment of its prophecies in Muhammad.

    The original Ebionites (not the pretenders of today) had it right. Unfortunately, they suffered extinction not long after Jesus left the scene.

    • Replies: @Talha
  335. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    Why should whites or Christians?

    Don’t know, gotta ask you guys that question; you didn’t used to.

    The separation so called of Church and State simply created a vaccum for Islam and Luciferian Prometheanism.

    Probably, but the reason it occurred was because you guys were going to Deus Vult yourselves out of existence:

    So, I guess you could go back to killing yourselves over religion instead of over other stuff. Your call really.

    no intra Christian conflict

    Yeah, once Europe decides it is “Christendom” again, there’s noooooo way they are going to kill each other again. Now, about those Orthodox guys called Russia and Ukraine…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  336. @Flint Clint

    It’s all about setting up parallel institutions, a first step towards autonomy and later independence of their ever growing enclaves, especially as they multiply through reproduction and more immigration. Eventually that is how whites may end up with some ethnostate reservations or bantustans, if they’re lucky. But even then they’ll be present in those white ethnostates and keep infiltrating them, just as they did the original white ethnostates just a while back, and clamouring for more freedom, equal rights, or whatever, which just leads to them having all the rights and freedoms and the whites none. The whole world’s the limit. Not saying this is how it will go but that’s the current trend.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  337. PPB says:
    @Commentator Mike

    “But is this truly religion or blasphemy and sacrilege?”

    The altarpiece you linked to is either an extreme example of unintentional parody, or evidence of seriously scrambled neurons. Blasphemy? Well, to give these poor confused folks the benefit of the doubt, I could argue that it’s more a case of diminished capacity than of mens rea, A truly blasphemous spirit would probably have come up with something far darker and less silly.

  338. @Talha

    Art says exactly what a voyeur would to mask his true intent, and I doubt even the Proud Boys, given their patriarchal disposition, would accept it. (“Thank heaven for little girls …” [eye roll])

    Sooner or later, western Christians are going to have to come to terms with the pathetic condition of their women: compelled into wage slavery by the fraudulent argument of feminist “liberation” and materialistic avarice; held to ever elusive standards of superficial “beauty” that perpetually serve to incite neurosis among them, severely impairing their judgment; relegated to objects of sexual gratification and summarily dehumanized; robbed of their rightful privilege to domestic oversight and protection from the ravages of the street …

    To the extent that Muslims pursue them, they deserve what they get. Na’oodhu billah.

  339. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    There is no room for such declination with the Arabic “ALLAH.”

    There are other peculiarities. For instance, the pronunciation of the fatHah on the laam is unique. Technically, the “Laa” in the name should be pronounced like in the word “lamp” – like it would in every other instance in every other word with that configuration – and even when it is combined (muda’af ilaih) to another word like bismillah.

    But when it is stand-alone, the “Laa” is pronounced like in the word “law” – very unique. Our youngest son’s first word was “Allah” – we were ecstatic! MashaAllah!

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  340. PPB says:

    To be fair, there are still a sizeable number of Western women who haven’t been co-opted by these distorted aspects of the wider culture. Moreover, a joyous feminine smile can indeed exude a unique warmth, which if coupled with a natural inner modesty, is even more appealing. Spontaneous and open reciprocations of human warmth and appreciation between men and women outside a familial context aren’t necessarily fueled by ulterior motives that warrant disparagement. Which, on the other hand, isn’t to say that anyone who finds them unnatural should feel compelled to engage in them.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  341. @Talha

    Allah has said to drive out all Hebrews from Israel. Who started this religious war? So mainstream Islamism promotes the idea that Hebrews should live in peace in Israel. That it is a religion of peace for converts. Are the Israelites to be drowned in the sea for good?

    The big money in the middle East wants to play an involved role with the global economic management system well into the future. It seems inevitable that the U.S. military bases in the middle East will be humbled somehow to allow this to happen. Of course the humbling of Israel too.

    As the crusades were about economics and control. So too is today’s Islam. Islam represents sneering jealous spite against everything Judaist and Christian. With the liberals help Islam’s bigoted ambition may succeed. The big money Islamists will have dominant control of the global economic management system well into the future. After the U.S. and Israel are put in their places.

  342. @Flint Clint

    /But you don’t understand the point./

    Well, since “the point” is whatever you happen to want it to be from one post to the next, you may be right.

    /We’re talking about Sharia’sq status in the West./

    I wasn’t.

    I was speaking about shari’ administration in principle, as established by the criteria of orthodox fundamentalist Islam, not as some imagine it to be manifest in the world today.

    /What you are saying is that Sharia should be afforded a jurisdiction over Muslims, who to some extent should be exempted from the general civic law./

    ?

    You’re mistaken. I said no such thing.

    Shari’ah, literally translated, means “a path that leads to water.” It’s already a holistic way of life for the faithful, wherever they may be, and it encompasses far more than the application of jurisprudence — a relatively minor aspect of the shari’ah.

    I’ve never argued that, “to some extent, [Muslims] should be exempted from the general civic law.” In fact, I’ve repeatedly asserted that, by virtue of America’s legal protection of their religious liberty, they are obligated to abide by the laws of the American republic and respective State and municipal law. America is both a dar al ‘ahd (abode of treaty) and dar al sulh (abode of peace). There is nothing inherently hostile to Islam in American government.

    Federalism, as originally envisioned in America, allowed for each state of the nascent republic to determine its own laws and administrate its affairs accordingly. The reach of the federal government was supposed to be highly circumscribed, limited to oversight that facilitates interstate comity.

    In its fundamental structure, this paradigm differs little — if at all — from that of Islamic administration, which doesn’t “favor Muslims,” but rather, provides for the relative autonomy of all polities established under its auspices. There is nothing inherent to the shari’ah that precludes Muslim administrators from reifying such a federalist suzerain.

    Zionists seek to implement law that subjugates goyim to their caprice and deprives them of their natural rights. This isn’t something the shari’ah mandates from Muslims, so I doubt they’d be very interested in seeing Islamic political administration prevail in the west.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  343. @Flint Clint

    The separation so called of Church and State simply created a vaccum for Islam and Luciferian Prometheanism.

    This is a very perceptive statement that deserves much historical and philosophical research. Goethe would be intrigued.

    Did church-state separation lead to the glorification of all things secular?

    Did the separation mean God is out and Big Government is in?

    Did it seal the Faustian bargain where science becomes God and gnosis (ie gnostic philosophy and cultism) replaces Christ?

    In short, did it set the stage for a technology, banking, media, and military based NWO: AntiChrist?

  344. @PPB

    Indeed, actions are judged according to their intention, but we live in an age where man has wandered far from consciousness of his original purpose, and what we have come to accept as normative, innocuous, or even worthy of experience is often a reflection of that alienation, a rationalizing of a condition we cannot be bothered to change in ourselves for fear of worldly loss.

    Most people do not perceive the Day of Standing as anything other than metaphorical, if even that. When you understand its truth as you do 2 + 2 = 4, the world and everything in it can never be the same.

    • Replies: @PPB
  345. @Talha

    What’s actually quite funny is that the infliction of identity politics by the post 1965 invasions of the West and the ongoing October Revolution led by the Jewish descendents of Trotsky in conjunction with Muslim authorities has actually made intra-Christian violence almost impossible.

    It took the Spanish 500 years to remove Muslims from Spain. That’s a very long period of time the Spanish weren’t fighting themselves or the English or the French or the Germans.

    I think the same can be expected in the future.

    There is almost zero appetite in the West for national scale violence. Only the mother of all false flags by the Luciferians could pull it off – something like a bioweapon attack or massive EMP or a fake space alien disclosure.

    There are indeed barely any Christians left – in accord with the prophecies of Fatima and others. I dont’ doubt that. But there need be only 12.

    And the Luciferians with control of the institutional nodes and banking/tech establishments may be able to impose their impregnable social credit system preventing any form of resistance. Maybe that will happen.

    Your terrorist cells in Europe just like ISIS was a joint Israel/CIA operation have been armed and provisioned even as Europeans have been completely disarmed. The cartels in Mexico work with the Mexican government and the Deep State Intelligence, the Muslims in Europe fulfill the same function.

    But we shall see.

    But when a white person can go literally days in most western capitals and never actually see another white person I wouldn’t be too worried about inter-white violence.

    Eventually, even the most gormless white people, like the one who just got knifed on London Bridge by a dindu after writing a thesis about their ‘overrepresentation’ in corrective systems are going to face reality. Even that event may have been faked by a new entrant into the British Hogwarts intelligence services as part of operation Chaos, it is false but accurate, as CNN likes to say.

    Muslims have had a monopoly on aggression in the West now for a very long time. As I keep saying, watch what happens as we crest the peak of effervescent social mood and begin the long and winding descent down the other side.

    Albert Pike talked about instigating a war between Zionists/Christians and Muslims. But I don’t think it’s going to happen.

    The next economic contraction is going to wipe out most private wealth and transfer it to the Jewish/Luciferian Resserve banks. That’s either going to usher in one world government, or it’s going to lead to a return to 19th century European atomization.

    Exciting times.

    • Replies: @Talha
  346. Seraphim says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    You may find useful this site: http://christianthinktank.com/
    Χριστὸς ἀνέστη! Ἀληθῶς ἀνέστη!
    Христосъ воскресе! Воистину воскресе!
    But for now:
    Christos Gennatai! Doxasate!
    Hristos rozhdaetsya! Slavite ego!

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  347. Richard P says:
    @Flint Clint

    Unfortunately, you’re correct. They’ve been a burden to our society for decades and it’s only going to get worse. This is worrisome and should be at the forefront of any discussions on how to properly address the increasingly vulnerability of our nation’s health at the realms of multiculturalism.

  348. @Commentator Mike

    The way you wrote that it’s hard to tell whether you were being sarcastic or not, and if it was AnonStarter’s or Art’s BS you’re referring to.

    Salam Commentator Mike,

    Yes, I was being sarcastic. Everyone acts so virtuous, especially behind the PC, but we all are full of darkness. The definition of Satan varies in all three religions.

    Judaism : He is an angel in good standing, whose job is to tempt mankind with the approval of God. Please refer to the Books of Job in the OT. We are back to Yetzer Hatov and Yetzer Hara. You can Google the terms. God given mankind a choice to do good and reject evil.

    Christianity : He is a fallen angel who is in constant war with God.

    Islam: He is NOT an angel. In the beginning a Jinn named Iblis tempted Adam. We don’t know he is alive or not. I don’t think so. But Iblis requested God to make him immortal till the judgement day, so that he can show God that he is better than human beings. God’ reply O’ satan (evil adversary) I have made you immortal, and you can not tempt by true abdi (worshiper, slave).

    So, the satan is within us in our deep, deep conscious because we have been given a choice to do good and reject evil and not to tempt others. It is the biggest Jihad in Islam, which is called Jihad al-Nafs (struggle against oneself)

    Quran: 4:12. “Say: ‘To whom belongs what is in the heavens and the earth?” Say: ‘To Allah, He has prescribed mercy on Himself: He will surely gather you on the Resurrection Day, of which there is no doubt. Those who have lost their own selves, they will not believe.’ ”

    4:54. “And when those who believe in Our Signs come to you, say: Peace be on you. Your Lord has prescribed mercy on Himself that whoever of you does evil in ignorance, and thereafter repents and amends (himself), then verily He is forgiving, Merciful ‘.”

    4:55. “And thus do We explain the Signs so that (the Truth be distinguished) and the way of the sinners be manifest.”

    So, there is No Boogeymen who made me do it!

    It reminds a song by Billy Joel: The Stranger
    “Well, we all have a face
    That we hide away forever
    And we take them out
    And show ourselves when everyone has gone
    Some are satin, some are steel
    Some are silk and some are leather
    They’re the faces of a stranger
    But we’d love to try them on”

  349. @Talha

    There are other peculiarities. For instance, the pronunciation of the fatHah on the laam is unique. Technically, the “Laa” in the name should be pronounced like in the word “lamp” – like it would in every other instance in every other word with that configuration – and even when it is combined (muda’af ilaih) to another word like bismillah.

    But when it is stand-alone, the “Laa” is pronounced like in the word “law” – very unique

    It is easy copy and paste without knowing any Arabic at all, and without referencing the copy and paste. It impresses the people who write Hebrew, Greek, Arabic and so forth. I will address the meaning of allah later.

  350. @PPB

    “La ilaha il ALLAH is as unequivocal as it gets, repeated throughout The Qur’an.”

    But still subject to misunderstanding, as though “Allah” referred to a distinct personage— or worse, a tribal deity proclaiming himself the “one and only”.

    The above is written under taqiyya. If God had a name such as Allah or Yahweh, then He becomes our property rather we being His property.

    When I told my Jewish friend that there are no capital letters in Hebrew, he taught I was insulting his language. He said, “In Hebrew all letters are capital”. When I told him that then Hebrew doesn’t have any small letters, he understood what I meant. So let us change “La ilaha il ALLAH” into small letters and then it becomes “la ilaha il allah.”. Trying to convert Hebrew or Arabic in English is a daunting task, as the vowels differs, therefore the same word Mohammad in Arabic, is written in many ways. The Jews write the same word for god, in English as “eloh” and Arabs write it as “ilah”. Now if you think that eloh/elohim is a tribal deity than I have news for you as we all are created by the same God.

    eloh/ilah is feminine noun. The literal translation for “eli/eloi eli/eloi lama sabachthani” is, “god my god my when forsaken you me” eli/eloi is god my; lama is when and sabachthani is forsaken you me. Make sense or it appears that it is something wrong in English! Now lets look at ““la ilaha il allah.”. la is the negation no; ilaha god (but being feminine noun, the gender for gender is matched); il means but; and allah is al ilah. In English one has nouns, pronouns and proper nouns. In Arabic and Hebrew, it has only nouns. To emphasize a noun for whatever reason in Arabic, “al” is added in front of the noun, and in Hebrew “ha” is added. For example God is not a proper name but when we write it with capital “G’ we are trying to emphasize the noun. The phrase:

    bi-smi llāhi alraḥmāni alraḥīmi بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْمِ

    You see llāhi is a famine noun, therefore gender for gender is matched.

    In fact the Quran is not in chronological order, nor the verses within the chapters are in chronological order too. The verse first verse of the Quran is verse 2 of chapter 96, or rather verse 1 of chapter 96.

  351. @Biff

    What can I say? Not all variables are created equal.

    Fair point of logic, however. I can’t say a single-variate explanation is invalid in one place and valid in another.

    If you have a more complex explanation for why those American cities went to hell, though, I’d love to read it.

    All I can think of is: outsourcing, old buildings, cold weather. But you’ll agree there’s still an African-sized lacuna to all that.

  352. @PPB

    But still subject to misunderstanding, as though “Allah” referred to a distinct personage— or worse, a tribal deity proclaiming himself the “one and only”

    Below is quoted from post# 121:

    Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”: Holy Quran 112

    The above is the worst translation I have come across of the above 4 verses. The last word in verses 1 is, “ahad” and the same last word “ahad” is used at the end of verse 4. In Arabic, “one” is “wahid” and NOT “ahad”. So one will see ahad is translated as, “[who is] one” or “one and only”. If you look at Shema Ya’ Isreal the same word “ahad” is written in English as “echad”.

    The Shema is one of only two prayers that are specifically commanded in Torah (the other is Birkat Ha-Mazon — grace after meals). It is the oldest fixed daily prayer in Judaism, recited morning and night since ancient times.

    Sh’ma Yisra’eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
    Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

    http://www.jewfaq.org/shemaref.htm

    So what does ahad/echad means? It means a complete unit which neither can be multiplied nor can be divided. No Holy Trinity. Thus rejection of Trinity.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  353. PPB says:
    @AnonStarter

    ” … we live in an age where man has wandered far from consciousness of his original purpose, and what we have come to accept as normative, innocuous, or even worthy of experience is often a reflection of that alienation, a rationalizing of a condition we cannot be bothered to change in ourselves for fear of worldly loss.”

    No doubt, especially given your qualification of “often”. But why would this happen if it didn’t serve its own greater purpose? I recognize that different religious orientations approach that issue from different perspectives, but what would an answer, or an attempt at an answer, look like if it wasn’t confined to the parameters of any particular religious perspective?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  354. @SeekerofthePresence

    /The proof that Jesus is God is His bodily resurrection from the dead./

    Yes, I’ve heard this before.

    As I have in relation to Mithra, Attis, Buddha, Krishna, Quexalcote, Horus, and Adonis, to name but a few “deities” who were also crucified and rose from the dead well before Jesus is purported to have done so.

    The mythos is nothing original. Pauline Christians usually attempt to point out distinctions among the predecesors, but the fundamental similarities remain.

  355. @PPB

    /But why would this happen if it didn’t serve its own greater purpose?/

    All water has its own greater purpose, but we drink only water that is pure.

    It is impossible to attempt any answer to this question that is not inherently metaphysical or religious. The intellect will bring you so far. Beyond its terminus, there is faith and faith alone, and nobody, however brilliant, can relieve himself of faith without losing his humanity.

  356. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    We will all be resurrected from our grave eventually; not a necessary sign of divinity – only that God can raise the living from the dead. The Quran has multiple instances of the dead being brought back to life.

    Wa salaam.

  357. PPB says:

    “It is impossible to attempt any answer to this question that is not inherently metaphysical or religious.”

    Indeed. But is it necessary to limit one’s explanation to the doctrinal framework of any single historical religion? It only makes sense that religions would need to clothe themselves in doctrine in order to address and be intelligible to human minds, but as your response implies, there are limits to what such a doctrinal framework can communicate: “The intellect will bring you so far. Beyond its terminus, there is faith and faith alone”.

    “All water has its own greater purpose, but we drink only water that is pure.”

    Then we would have all remained angels, no? What purpose for specifically human consciousness if there is no value in assimilating experience of all varieties? The final distillate of all such experience still emerges as a clear liquid, but with an added harmonic richness that the original purity could never equal by itself. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that the very blueprints of our lives are structured so as to immerse us in such experience, each according to his/her own purpose and need.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  358. @Assad al-islam

    Interesting discussion of ahad, echad. “One” of the deepest issues in philosophy and religion, as well as mathematics, physics, even biology: what exactly is One?

    The Holy Trinity is in One in essence, without division, multiplication, partition, or any other operation.

    The three-fold clover is one in essence, without division.

    In Psalm 2 we read,
    “I proclaim as an obligation that HASHEM said to me, ‘You are my Son. This day I have begotten You.’” (Literal translation from the Hebrew of the Schottenstein Edition).

    This Son is the Second Person of the Trinity, One in essence with His Father, Messiah, Christ, who would take on human flesh, die on the cross for men’s sins, and rise the Third Day in victory over death and hell, bringing everlasting life to all who follow Him in love.

  359. @SeekerofthePresence

    Meant to say, “The Holy Trinity is One in essence….”

  360. In Psalm 2 e read,
    “I proclaim as an obligation that HASHEM said to me, ‘You are my Son. This day I have begotten You.’” (Literal translation from the Hebrew of the Schottenstein Edition).

    Like I said earlier the OT is Jewish Book and has nothing to do with Christianity as Christian have their own Book called NT. Why are the Christians always twisting OT to fit their agenda. The Christians claim that the God of OT is 1.0 and has learned from his mistakes and become God 2.0.

    They claim that OT God is into war crimes, but the NT God has learned and became a God of Love!

    The Holy Trinity is in One in essence, without division, multiplication, partition, or any other operation.

    I heard this justification a million times. One more time wouldn’t make any difference to me.

  361. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    And as far as converts to Islam who go to those countries, I’d say most do it to join the brotherhood and to link up with the more hardcore politicised terrorist outfits rather than for genuine spiritual reasons.

    I’ve met plenty of converts that have gone overseas to study and this is absolutely not the case. Many of them have hooked up with genuine Muslim spiritual guides and, of those, plenty have then come back to teach spirituality to born Muslims in the West. Many of my friends from UCLA became the spiritual students of a Western convert who became a scholar and a murshid (spiritual teacher). Men like this:

    Are there rip-off artists masquerading as Sufis and stuff, sure. Over here, we call them televangelists.

    nowadays the vast majority of sex tourists in that region are Indians and Arabs

    Not super-surprising. What people fail to understand is that the Shariah is like a lock on society like one keeps a lock on their door. You don’t keep your door locked because of the people that have a respect for your property, you keep it locked for those with diseased hearts. Obviously, these Arabs with diseased hearts are going to where the door has been left unlocked.

    their behaviour is far worse and more abusive than that of the dirty old white men.

    I don’t know, bro. This kind of stuff is pretty hard to top:
    “A depraved paedo who filmed himself torturing and raping children and babies smiles as he leaves court in the Philippines after being jailed for life. In one sickening case, Aussie sex attacker Peter Gerard Scully, 55, dubbed one of the world’s worst paedophiles, made two little girls dig their own graves.”
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6525841/peter-scully-worlds-worst-paedophile-jail-baby-rape-dig-graves-philippines/

    The muslim world looks like it will be liberalising in all the worst aspects under the offensive of western Judeo-globalism.

    Well, that’s certainly the goal:

    …and our goal is to stop it.

    Gays are coming out into the open, especially in Tunisia where they’re being politicised.

    One has to be careful about the coverage in the West about these things. That gay guy who was running for president got a lot of coverage in the West, but in Tunisia he was rejected as a candidate, didn’t even show up on the ballot.

    Introducing identity politics could be useful for the rulers of Muslim countries as it distracts from other serious problems the people there face and diverts their struggle into these other less threatening side issues.

    No doubt. In essence, many Muslim elites are a lot like Western elites…so it is going to be in the hands of the populations to keep the pressure on them from allowing degeneracy to come through. Now, if the population is also mostly pro-degeneracy, then it’s a no-brainer; they deserve what they want and get.

    One thing though, because the Muslim world still has a sizeable religious population; the secularized elites and those getting pozzed keep getting outbred.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  362. @AnonStarter

    few “deities” who were also crucified and rose from the dead

    Could you please show me the texts that say Buddha, Krishna, et al were crucified and rose bodily from the dead?!

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  363. @Assad al-islam

    Fifteen years ago, Quran gave the woman rights to own properties.

    Correction meant to, fifteen hundreds years ago, the Quran gave the women the rights to own their own properties!

  364. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    has actually made intra-Christian violence almost impossible.

    Yeah and intra-Christian gay-marriage far more possible.

    You don’t seem to hear what I’m saying…

    There is almost zero appetite in the West for national scale violence.

    Or forcibly removing immigrants…that’s the point. I’m saying, once you guys get the fortitude to actually pull something like that off, you have historically turned on each other – every single time.

    I mean, practically every failure of the West into Muslim lands was because they were far more interested in backstabbing and killing each other.

    Within less than a 100 years of kicking out the Muslims, Spain got into a protracted war with Britain. Another example; Napoleon kicked Ottoman and Mamluk butt all over Egypt and the Levant (the only battle his forces lost to the Ottomans, ironically, was a siege commanded by a loyal Ottoman Jewish governor). What stopped him? The British completely annihilated his fleet at the Battle of the Nile, he ended up folding shop and leaving soon after. British got prime market share as an Ottoman trading partner.

    Of course, Napoleon’s forces ended up marauding all over Europe – not that the other Europeans hadn’t tried to invade France…end result: a few million across Europe. And hell, they barely had a chance to rest from the Seven Years War that had ravaged the continent – absolutely nuts!!!

    Your terrorist cells in Europe

    Not mine – those guys can rot.

    and never actually see another white person I wouldn’t be too worried about inter-white violence.

    Well yeah – not really a target-rich environment. See my earlier point, which is; historically, European Christians much prefer killing each other than anyone else. It’s simply a historical pattern.

    Muslims have had a monopoly on aggression in the West now for a very long time.

    Possibly – just as the West has had a monopoly on carpet-bombing other parts of the world. I mean, do you think Iraq just tripped over a rock and – oops – now parts of it look like Stalingrad!!! How in the world did that happen??!!

    The West certainly gets invaders in it. I’ve seen videos of young military-age males climbing over border fences and what not. Have you seen the videos of military-age Western males riding through Baghdad on armored vehicles? The West sends plenty of its own invaders.

    transfer it to the Jewish/Luciferian Resserve banks.

    Thus the prohibition on interest/usury.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  365. Talha says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    The three-fold clover is one in essence, without division.

    Let’s explore this a bit more, my friend. This actually reminds me of an explanation by a Christian I respect quite a bit, Dr. William Lane Craig:

    It is also akin to the analogy some use with respect to a triangle with its three corners.

    However, this smacks a bit of the heresy called “Partialism”:
    “Partialism
    …taught that Father, Son and Holy Spirit together are components of the one God. This led them to believe that each of the persons of the Trinity is only part God, only becoming fully God when they come together.”
    https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/Trinitarian%20Heresies.html

    The reason I would suspect that is that it breaks with the essential Trinitarian formula:

    You can also see the various other formulas (in that link) that have been deemed heresies over the ages.

    For, as I understand it, the Christian assertion is that; Christ is fully God, the Father is fully God, the Holy Spirit is fully God.

    The three leaf clover is indeed a clover and a triangle is a triangle – but none of the leaves are “fully” the clover and none of the corners of the triangle are “fully” the triangle. And, in Dr. Craig’s analogy – well, one could cut off one or two of the heads of Cerberus and it would no longer retain the quality that makes it unique from other dogs (thus the two heads are essential in one sense), but it could conceivably keep on living and existing (thus the two heads are extraneous in another sense).

    Now – it is not my religion, so perhaps I do not understand it fully (definitely a possibility) and you may have a better answer than I have come across. And perhaps, it is just a mystery as many have simply concluded.

    I usually avoid specifically theological discussions since a lot of religion has to do with the heart and not necessarily the mind, and many discussions just become unnecessarily contentious. But you seem to be a reasonable and respectful guy*. I can say though, that we get the lion’s share of our converts from Christianity and this seems to be (from my experience) – above anything else – the essential reason most of them break with the religion, meaning the core and essential doctrine.

    Peace.

    *My hat-tip to you, sir – for keeping things respectful in your engagements. This actually – at least to me – shows there are Christians that still internalize and imbue the best of their tradition. People like yourself, and I know other traditional Christians (some actually follow me on Twitter and have let me know how they benefit from some of my posts) are a testament to echoes of the blessed words of the Son of Mary (pbuh) through the ages.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  366. @PPB

    /But is it necessary to limit one’s explanation to the doctrinal framework of any single historical religion?/

    We limit our explanation in some way, shape, or form, regardless. As the intellect is limited, it cannot be otherwise. One who imagines he may consume the sea is destined to drown therein.

    We may know about prayer, but we don’t know prayer until we pray. The depth of the genuine beauty of sustenance is not fathomed without abstinence. We know The Provider in fasting, The Generous, in receiving abundance.

    True religion necessitates, first and foremost, affirmation of the reality of He Who Provides it. Without such affirmation, there can be no knowledge of Him; and without knowledge of Him, the heart cannot distinguish between truth and falsehood. What you regard as a “doctrinal framework” is, in fact, His Criterion, which is not the product of human intellect, collective or otherwise.

    /Then we would have all remained angels, no?/

    You drink water too impure for consumption? Do tell.

    Nobody does. The rejection of it is hardwired in us, and when it reaches the stomach, we learn this as well. In its natural state, however, the quality of water is not always seen for what it is. Just as we implement measures to test for its purity, so too do we know and understand God’s Word as distinct from that of men by applying it — we, the willing subject.

    Angels do not forget. We do.

    /What purpose for specifically human consciousness if there is no value in assimilating experience of all varieties?/

    Consciousness is merely the sensation of satisfying thirst. Of itself, it doesn’t determine the quality of the drink. Certainly, there is value in drinking impurity — an experience we’re not likely to assimilate willingly — but there is value: the conviction that it is to be avoided at all costs.

    /The final distillate of all such experience still emerges as a clear liquid, but with an added harmonic richness that the original purity could never equal by itself. /

    Experience is the inevitable consequence of living. It is only the manner in which we experience — or do not experience — anything that matters. Otherwise, coal would be as valuable as diamonds.

    /In fact, I’d go so far as to say that the very blueprints of our lives are structured so as to immerse us in such experience, each according to his/her own purpose and need./

    Certainly, though not so much that we’re deprived of agency. Our sojourn is a series of crossroads, the possible routes myriad, though inevitably consigned by virtue of our decisions.

    And those decisions ultimately determine our destination, not all of which can be honestly assessed as equal in value.

    • Replies: @PPB
  367. @Talha

    Haha. Well this is all true.

    But France under Napoleon wasn’t filled with dindus dancing on trash in Paris and no go banlieues full of Muslims.

    I think you don’t know the pain most white people feel now seeing what’s happened to their countries. It approaches the pain of the Palestinians.

    We’ve reached peak fag in the West. Tolerance in the last five years has dropped by about 15% by millennials and it will keep dropping as they continue to push for pedophilia as sexual orientation.

    I do admire Muslims combatting the Poz in England.

    But I always remember those Rotherham victim impact statements I’ve read and remember that Muslims treat their own kids one way, and English kids very differently.

    Ron has already said that middle Eastern imperialism was a policy of the neoliberal and Israeli Jews.

    Look at the actual American appetite for war with Iran. It doesn’t exist.

    Because Jews wanted Rothschild banks and sex slavery in Libya doesn’t mean Germany should turn Syrian.

    I think Muslims and all invaders completely underestimate the true sentiment of white people deep down. At least Baghdad is still Iraqi, you understand? London seems.ro have at least as many fucking Iraqis etc as Baghdad.

    We want what our parents had.

    There is no appetite for war between franfe and Germany but I think it’s silly to disregard the sentiment towards rhe invasion slowly developing.

    If I were Muslim or Jewish in the pozzed west id self deport.

    We’re largely irrelevant to works affairs now anyway. Let us resolve these issues with the Luciferians and progressive left.

    • Replies: @Talha
  368. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    I think you don’t know the pain most white people feel now seeing what’s happened to their countries.

    I can understand it; I just have a low tolerance for whining.

    Did you see what I said about Muslims losing Spain? We deserved to lose Spain because of how stupid and materialistic, ungrateful and treacherous the Muslims had become. Listen to this lecture, you hear him blaming the Spaniards?

    There is one thing about Marines marching into Iraq with machine guns and tanks and attack helicopters shooting at anything that moves – at least you can say; we tried to stop them, but they killed thousands of us that got in the way.

    The Western countries have every legal means to stop immigration as of tomorrow. You don’t need guns, you don’t need anything. My father was a legal immigrant to the US; he stood in line, filled out the forms and followed all the instructions. If the US had said “no”, he simply would have said, “ok, no problem”. Just don’t give them permission to come into the West any more – come up with a one-issue platform (anti-immigration) like the NRA and lobby the hell out of it.

    it will keep dropping as they continue to push for pedophilia as sexual orientation.

    I hope so.

    I do admire Muslims combatting the Poz in England.

    As you should. Even if one considers someone their enemy, only whiny, butt-hurt losers don’t recognize the strengths or admirable qualities in their opponents that they can learn from.

    You should thank God that there are Muslim men like this around that show what true masculinity means; respecting, being grateful and listening to your mother while being able to kick the butt of any man that steps into the octagon:

    doesn’t mean Germany should turn Syrian.

    Sure. I have never, ever supported mass immigration of Muslims into the West. You can look at my comment history. I have zero problems with stopping immigration completely as of yesterday and – in fact, prefer Germany to remain native-German.

    We want what our parents had.

    OK – but your parents were willing to sacrifice a hell of a lot more than you guys are.

    The West can join #TeamFertility any time they want. Why don’t they want to have kids? Yes it’s hard work, but everything comes with effort.

    Let us resolve these issues with the Luciferians and progressive left.

    Problem is that you guys have dropped the ball massively and it would be great if Muslims could just assume you will win that fight, but there is little confidence in you coming out on top. And on top of that, the elites in the West are using the tremendous wealth, technology and resources of the West to then bring that crap into Muslim lands. Muslims have a vested interest in making sure that stuff gets quashed in the very lands where it was spawned:
    “The Trump administration has announced it plans to launch a global effort to end the criminalisation of homosexuality with a new campaign to be spearheaded by openly gay US Ambassador to Germany Richard Grenell. The initiative, confirmed to NBC News by administration officials, will begin with a dinner in Berlin on Tuesday, where LGBTQ+ activists from across Europe will be tasked with coming up with a plan of action. The goal is to push for decriminalisation in parts of the world where it is still illegal to be gay, such as a handful of nations in the Middle East and Africa.”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-homosexuality-lgbt-rights-gay-decriminalisation-campaign-administration-a8787446.html

    Now, maybe we will get kicked out anyway, but while we are here, I see no reason for us not to do as much push-back against the Dajjalic machine as possible.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  369. @AnonStarter

    You’re full of it.

    All these genteel little phrases.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html

    There are 85 Sharia Courts right now in England. And yes, I know it’s ironic next to the photos of the slappers on the right hand column, but we can’t have everything we want.

    They are adjudicating civil disputes – that’s not freedom of religion, that’s a court. And the presiding Imams have regularly talked about imposing the same on the rest of Britain. Secretive and insular courts do not constitute freedom of religion.

    The desire for total jurisprudential sovereignty is palpable. That’s why Islam is different.

    You just completely avoided everything I said.

    Again, why should Muslims get access to incredibly lenient divorce law but Europeans have to get divorce raped? Or more cogently, why should Muslim women be stripped of rights relative to their non-Muslim friends? Etc

    The politicans say it has ‘to be in line with the common-law’ but that’s a lie for the benefit of the goyim.

    These same politicians say Rotherham never happened.

    Talking to Muslims these days is almost worst then talking to Jews. The intensity and frequency of the lies just keeps increasing.

    https://www.globalmbresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/20090411_merley.usbrotherhood.pdf

    No, Muslims in the United States do constitute a threat. Huma Abedin was a member, and so supposedly was Valerie Jarret.

    The first goal of the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States is ‘settlement’ which as we know from Martin Van Creveld is the most successful form of fourth generation warfare.

    For all the statements about American activity in the Middle East, the US has never ‘settled’ it, which is why the occupation and nation-building has failed. If the US never had Jews, it could have settled the Middle-East with white people and reversed the dynamic. As for your statements about Amerian boots in Iraq, It gets a little old actually. a) the various Iraqi Muslim factions have blown up literally dozens of schools, hospitals and power plants because they were built by Americans and b) why do you have nothing to say about Muslim boots on the ground in Europe?

    That’s what kills me. I used to be Liberal, then I realised the degree of faggot hypocrisy that is rife in all non-whites. If removing Muslims from Europe is racist, why isn’t it racist to remove American troops in Iraq? It’s just another form of illegal migration right? How dare you be so xenophobic and bigoted. We are all one people etc etc etc.

    https://www.kwch.com/content/news/Child-remains-found-at-New-Mexico-compound-man-due-in-court-490352381.html

    Why were there Muslims raping children and training them to be school shooters in New Mexico? Because the Muslim Brotherhood is working with the Deep State to assist in the coup currently underway in the United States. Divide and conquer. Jews and Muslims hand in hand, as always.

    Notice any common threads here?

    Muslims raping children. This sort of thing:

    http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/rotherham/index.html

    There are so many instances of Muslim rape and destruction of property if I linked them I’d get linked spammed.

    I’m telling you Achmed, if that sort of thing was happening in the United States, or perhaps more precisely if it gets discovered, very moderate Libertarian pro-Israel pro-mass immigration people like Glenn Reynolds have said that Muslims will be hanging from lamp-posts and being burned at the stake.

    Sharia is not the same thing as American constitutional federalism – and just for your edification, that has been dead in the United States since 1865 and it’s never coming back. American Federalism for example wasn’t dependent upon religion, or race.

    I mean you are saying the most idiotic things. Stop saying American constitutional Federalism is just like Sharia. It’s idiotic.

    Muslims spend too much time in Madrassas engaged in circular congratulations.

    Cancer and leprosy working hand in hand to destroy the host.

    Zionists are instrumental to the replacement invasion in Europe, because they know they can more easily rule idiot in-bred Muslims via fronts then the European goyim.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jewish-muslim-allies-ispu_n_5cc9e017e4b0d123954d74ba

    Muslims and Jews are ‘natural allies’ – a reminder once again. it doesn’t matter how rational or irrational it looks to the uninitiated, it’s now clear that this is the truth.

    It doesn’t matter that it was neoliberal Jews who caused every single incursion in the Middle-East since 1965 – you guys are natural allies.

    “Zionists seek to implement law that subjugates goyim to their caprice and deprives them of their natural rights. This isn’t something the shari’ah mandates from Muslims, so I doubt they’d be very interested in seeing Islamic political administration prevail in the west.”

    Yes and the principle means they do this is by allowing the invasion of millions of Muslim men of military age and forcing the goyim to pay for it.

    Muslims should be self-deporting from the West yesterday. I try to avoid reading about all the crime and destruction because it just leads to a hardening.

    You faggots don’t give a shit about Jewish neoliberal invasion of your homelands. Because if you did, you wouldn’t be ‘natural allies’.

    It’s going to get very ugly Achmed.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  370. PPB says:
    @AnonStarter

    It seems that we’re articulating alternative visions as much as we’re answering each other directly. I don’t see either of these visions as being somehow exclusively true, but each does fill in the gaps that neither single vision can fully address on its own..

    • Replies: @PPB
  371. @Talha

    I can understand it; I just have a low tolerance for whining

    The ‘whining’ is civic discourse. When the civic discourse stops, and political means are exhausted, that’s when Clausewitz comes into play. No one wants that, so expect a little more whining.

    There is one thing about Marines marching into Iraq with machine guns and tanks and attack helicopters shooting at anything that moves – at least you can say; we tried to stop them, but they killed thousands of us that got in the way

    What are you talking about – those were just armed illegal immigrants. The Iraqis were racist and xenophobic to resist the incusion of the neo-Iraqis.

    Sure. I have never, ever supported mass immigration of Muslims into the West. You can look at my comment history. I have zero problems with stopping immigration completely as of yesterday and – in fact, prefer Germany to remain native-German.

    Yes, but you’re singular. And if that’s the case, then self-deport.

    I’ll believe Muslims give a damn about these invasions led by Jewish Neoliberals once I stop seeing articles where Muslims and Jews act as ‘natural allies’ to subjugate the West. Jewish neoliberals conceived of every western incursion into the West in the last 50 years, and they were opposed by a plurality of actual westerners every single time. But Jews and Muslims are natural allies, so what you say has no validity or application.

    come up with a one-issue platform (anti-immigration) like the NRA and lobby the hell out of it.

    And therein lies the rub – people have done that, and they’ve been deplatformed and harried and imprisoned. Because the West is ruled by a hostile set of aliens, by both race and religion, and the long march has made things very, very difficult.

    But I think we’ll get there in Trump’s second term.

    Sure, Khabib is a great MMA fighter – but McGregor was completely correct that both he and his father have been all wrapped up in the usual cocoon of Dindu corruption.

    OK – but your parents were willing to sacrifice a hell of a lot more than you guys are.

    My parents didn’t have to contend with Dindus. They got to have nice, quiet, orderly and industrious places like schools. They didn’t have dindus standing on desks, having sex in the bathrooms, doing drugs in the corridoors, beating the shit out of anyone for any reason at a moment’s notice etc. I got out, but some of my white friends couldn’t. It’s like seeing the end of the world.

    “younger generations, growing up in harder times and facing a much more challenging future, are angry at the Baby Boomers for squandering what should have been their inheritance of Western civilization and white America. Even though it’s not necessarily their fault – Baby Boomers were not responsible for the Immigration Act of 1965 or the Civil Rights movement or the Great Society – the Baby Boomers supported, and in most cases, still support those terrible, dyscivilizational catastrophes. As one commenter there noted, Boomers are the r-Selected offspring of WWII rabbits, “You’ll never want for anything like I did!”

    “Third, the Baby Boomers grew up in an idyllic white Norman Rockwell picture. That alone is sufficient for the growing and statistically significant non-white minority among the younger generations to hate them.”

    “The Boomers, Generation Xers, and Millennials love to feel that they are helping poor unfortunate minorities through their virtue-signaling, whereas Generation Z looks around and realizes that they are in the minority themselves and they are surrounded by a Diversity that hates, envies, and fears them.”

    I have to contend with you people. They didn’t. I understand perfectly well the diversity, my parents still don’t quite understand it.

    And shut up about having kids – I’m paying for your kids. I’m paying for the Muslims kids. In the most integrated place in Europe in the United Kingdom, 35% of Muslim parasite rapist males are unemployed, and 65% of the females.

    You are having kids at my expense. So be quiet.

    http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/05/11/fiscal-impact-of-whites-blacks-and-hispanics/

    We know from Federal budget analysis modulated by race that net inputs vs outputs is as follows:

    White: -$2,795 (meaning they contribute on average $2,795 per year)
    Black: +$10,016 (meaning blacks on average receive $10,016 per year and contribute absolutely nothing)
    Hispanic: +7,298 (Ron Unz’s favourite folks, who also contribute net zero on average to the states’ coffers, receiving almost as much as the Dindus).

    Based on Eyptian research that 80% of Muslims in the West are unemployed and on welfare the numbers for Muslims are probably actually even worse.

    So basically, Gen Z is being told that Muslims are exactly the same as Anglo-Saxon white Christians and interchangeable economic labour, and you guys are quite possibly a higher net cost then even the Dindus.

    I ‘will’ end up having 10 white children.

    But in the meantime, we’re not going to listen to the lies of what Ayn Rand called every single half naked savage and salubrious Oriental about the world.

    When Muslims pay a single net tax dollar as a cohort and stop being Jews natural allies I’ll care about your opinions.

    “The negative fiscal impact of blacks and hispanics is significant. All of this discussion of a “national debt” and “deficit” is primarily of function of blacks and hispanics. Without them, we would be running budget surpluses today, even when keeping the military the same size.”

    And it’s even worse for Muslims. The welfare state is a function of non-whites. In the end, all of these supposedly race-neutral questions just keep a-rolling back to the true factorial sources.

    Muslims are more then happy to work with Jews if it means getting more money and children to rape out of white people.

    Until then, let the descent to the economic crash continue apace so we can settle some of these issues.

    Khabib would destroy me in a fight, but if he were in the West he’d have to go back.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Jila
  372. PPB says:
    @PPB

    I should have rephrased that last bit as “… but both togther fill in the gaps …”.

    At any rate, this dialogue has deepened my appreciation of the need for different religions (either strictly or loosely defined) for people of differing temperaments, inclinations and overall orientations, so I thank you for that and more.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Flint Clint
  373. Talha says:
    @I'm Tyrone

    but that local/regional values exert a far greater influence on an individual’s behavior than does religion.

    Well that’s an interesting question because the religion helps inform the culture also especially in a religion like Islam that has rules and regulations as part of its attributes, so – while I can certainly say that and Muslim Arab and myself and a Muslim Senegalese may indeed have different expectations of a wife; the way a marriage contract (nikah) works, is essentially the same.

    I like the analogy of the Islam and the Shariah being like a black and white drawing; every culture is free to color it as they please, but they should try to stay within the borders.

    Surprised?

    No, not really, because some Muslims from the subcontinent also prefer to marry within Syeds versus non-Syeds or the like.

    Culture trumps religion.

    Not sure about this. Your example was not a good one where there is a specific religious clash with culture. Islam is silent about if, culturally, a people prefer marrying their cousins or within their tribe or if they prefer to marry tall versus short or dark-skin versus white-skin. The father gave his preference and the son agreed to abide by it. When I was marrying my wife (a white convert), if my father and mother would have opposed it and asked that I marry only a Pakistani, I would have said OK if I could not convince them otherwise. Cultural compatibility (even class compatibility) is a valid reason for accepting of rejecting a marriage.

    Now if you gave a specific example of where culture actually overcomes a religious norm, then that would be a more interesting case. I’ll actually put out an example. A part of Pashtun culture is widow inheritance where a younger brother inherits the widow of his older brother without her having any choice in the matter. This is a part of the long-standing culture, but the Taliban (when they were in power) stopped the practice because it went up against Shariah by denying the woman a voice in the matter. Now that is a very real struggle between culture and religion. Another one I can think of is entrenched practice of black-magic is certain parts of Muslim Africa coming up against the Islamic prohibition of it. That is also a very real clash of culture versus religion; sometimes one side comes up the winner, sometimes the other – but usually that is a reflection of how much the population is practicing the religion vs not. It is also often a reflection of the time a culture has been exposed to the religion and whether it is on the peripheries vs the core heartlands.

    And you could then also ask the inverse question; sure this and that practice still remain in that culture in opposition to that religion, but how much else has come into conformity over time? Is it 40-60%, 25-75%, 5-95%…?

    And I would say, that is the real continuum one would have to measure along.

    Bengalis and Punjabis are both sunnis, so what gives? Again, culture trumps religion.

    Not sure, because Punjabis also share a state with Balochis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Muhajirs, Kashmiris, etc. And while that conflict was certainly an example of where culture did overtake religious identity, it was also at a time when the rise of ethno-nationalism was particularly acute in the Muslim world. One can also point to souring relations between the Kurds and Turks who had historically been very amiable.

    your knowledge of fiqh

    I have been blessed to have many, wonderful teachers, like this one:
    https://www.themuslim500.com/profiles/abdur-rahman-ibn-yusuf/

    My brother actually designed the logo for his publishing company:
    https://www.whitethreadpress.com/

    Anything good I have comes from their efforts and prayers that have been accepted, otherwise – all the faults are my own.

    Peace.

  374. @Flint Clint

    /You just completely avoided everything I said./

    In your previous post, you wrote, “We’re talking Sharia’sq [sic] status in the West.” I responded, “I wasn’t.”

    Then, even after I demonstrated that I wasn’t talking about that topic, you continue to avoid what I said and carry on with your typically discursive polemic, meandering from one strawman argument to the next, as if inundating us with a blizzard of logical fallacies constitutes some kind of damning indictment of Islam.

    As I said before, you need to calm down and focus upon my words more carefully. As it stands, you’re not actually addressing them. Rather, you’re addressing what you imagine they say.

    Go back to the post of mine to which you originally responded. In it, you’ll find the following passage:

    This is Islam, regardless of how faithfully Muslims have implemented said protection at any given time in history.

    Now jumping into a conversation is fine, but you did so while ignoring what I wrote, ranting and raving about how Saudi Arabia and other nation-states don’t actually fit the description of the ideal Islamic polity I described when I never claimed that any nation-state on earth fits this description. Yours is the very definition of a strawman argument.

    Try and read what’s written at the links I provide, those concerning the Constitution of Medina and the Covenants of the Prophet.

    And if you can’t be bothered with them, then fine, but you won’t have any justification for whining when I ignore what you write.

  375. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    so expect a little more whining.

    Apparently.

    Yes, but you’re singular.

    No, but yes – it’s certainly not the most popular position in the Muslim community as of yet, especially among the more liberal-leaning Muslims.

    Muslims and Jews act as ‘natural allies’ to subjugate the West.

    Why do Jews and Christians act as natural allies to subjugate the East? Why are Western armies (obviously populated mostly by Christian men) carrying weapons and tossing bombs into Muslim countries. Are you saying Christian white males have zero responsibility and volition?

    If your cop-out is “Da Joos are making us do it!” – fine, that’s ours too. Even Steven.

    but McGregor was completely correct that both he and his father have been all wrapped up in the usual cocoon of Dindu corruption

    McGregor is a drunk washout covered with tats (is the man even married to his woman?) – if you think he is a better example of how a human being should conduct themselves than Khabib, fine with me. Have your kids take advice from him, when he’s sober.

    I’m paying for your kids.

    The hell you are – I’m not on welfare.

    I’m paying for the Muslims kids. In the most integrated place in Europe in the United Kingdom, 35% of Muslim parasite rapist males are unemployed

    You pay taxes to the UK? Why? So then 65% of males in the UK are employed then – OK that means the majority of the Muslim kids are actually NOT welfare recipients.

    Based on Eyptian research that 80% of Muslims in the West are unemployed and on welfare the numbers for Muslims are probably actually even worse.

    You just said the majority of Muslim males in the UK are employed. What’s your source for either claim? Please don’t waste my time with Mickey Mouse nonsense – have the decency to cite a valid and reliable source, please.

    You are having kids at my expense. So be quiet.

    Nonsense and more whining. There are plenty of people having kids in Mauritania and Bangladesh with a house that’s falling apart. You do nothing to support them, they are dirt poor and they still have kids. There are people in ravaged parts of Syria that need to be rebuilt and they will have kids.

    Plenty of rich whites have tons of disposable income and could easily raise a family of 2 or 3 and refuse to because they have other responsibilities. I know this because I work with plenty of them. So many of them are not married or are and have NO kids. Or they have like one kid. It’s ridiculous – they all have good paying jobs and could easily afford 2-3 kids, but don’t.

    This blaming everyone else will get you nowhere with me. I don’t accept that type of whining from dirt-poor Muslims for their condition and I sure as hell won’t give it the time of day from non-Muslims who don’t want to take responsibility for the dysfunction in their own communities.

    Losers whine and blame everyone else because it makes them feel good and they don’t have to put in the hard effort to do anything. Winners get up, dust themselves off, learn from past mistakes and say; “Well, guys let’s make sure that doesn’t happen again.”

    I ‘will’ end up having 10 white children.

    Good – that’s the mentality. Now – have you gotten past first base and secured a white wife that is down to be a bay factory – because I hear these are in short supply. I know this can be done though because one of my grandmothers had 8 kids and the other had 14.

    what Ayn Rand called every single half naked savage and salubrious Oriental about the world

    The Russian Jewish lady that was born “Alisa Rosenbaum”? LOOOOL! You do that, bro.

    When Muslims pay a single net tax dollar as a cohort and stop being Jews natural allies I’ll care about your opinions.

    Uh hunh. Again, completely ignoring what whites are doing – because…muh reasons:
    But in Utah — deeply conservative, deeply devout, predominantly white Utah — the response has been altogether different. The governor, a Republican who aligns with Trump on most issues, wrote the president a letter in late October….He didn’t want to keep refugees out. He didn’t want to reduce their numbers. He wanted Trump to send more….Republicans in the state legislature quickly backed up their governor, daring to defy a president who has repeatedly shown an unwillingness to tolerate intraparty dissent. So did Republican members of the state’s congressional delegation. So did Republicans in city halls. Democrats across Utah added their support.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trump-gave-states-the-power-to-ban-refugees-conservative-utah-wants-more-of-them/2019/12/02/d8de7b00-1085-11ea-a533-90a7becf7713_story.html

    Man, this white dude has 6 kids – pretty impressive and basically just gave you an; “Up yours!”

    And all the conservative white folks backing him in their government have a hell of a lot more influence than I do on policy…he has to go back…?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  376. @Talha

    /entrenched practice of black-magic is certain parts of Muslim Africa coming up against the Islamic prohibition of it/

    Where it gets complex is when the most expeditious means of combating sorcery is to avail of another sorcerer. If you know what’s required to attain mastery of the science, you’d probably have severe reservations about availing of his services, regardless of the intention.

    For years following my shahada, I had very limited knowledge of this phenomenon, but I attest more firmly to its reality now. Unfortunately, it’s legion throughout the Muslim world, not just Africa. We have midnight graveyard covens assembling right here in America. Our dreamers see them more plainly than would a fly on the tombstone, and most of the world just laughs it off as horror genre fodder.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  377. @PPB

    /At any rate, this dialogue has deepened my appreciation of the need for different religions (either strictly or loosely defined) for people of differing temperaments, inclinations and overall orientations, so I thank you for that and more./

    I thank you as well for the dialogue. I greatly appreciate your effort to convey your perspective respectfully and your clear attentiveness to what I’ve written.

    May all be well with you.

  378. @PPB

    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7725

    There is a rich tradition of western mysticism that has been suppressed and marginalised.

    Religion is like a circle, some reach full circle in their comprehension of truth, others only part-circle.

    There is no need for different religions. There is only the need for truth, in it’s fullest realisation.

    Here’s one very basic example.

    Hinduism, Buddhism and Babylonian Talmudism all have a tradition of meditation which involves ‘mindlessness’ yes?

    But one of the first principles of philosophy is actually that nothing is begat by nothing.

    People who engage in nothingness mediation receive only the most basic physical benefits, like steady breathing and inhibition of the autonomic nervous system and then they attribute those benefits to spiritual benefits.

    But in meditating on nothing they receive nothing – nothing is begat from nothing. Or, in seeking nothing, they find evil somethings. The whole process of advancement in Kundalini is about submission to possession.

    Saint Therese’s nine forms of prayer are very different.

    It was a revelation to me to find that the West has an authentic mysticism that has been suppressed and marginalised.

    But more importantly, all other forms of meditation that seek nothing are simply inferior. They are NOT equal. They aren’t just other forms of the same truth. They are very partial turns on the circle.

    Because in Saint Therese’s formulation, the subject of the meditation is not nothing, it is always an element of the divine.

    For example. The most efficacious thing that can be done for depression, anxiety and low self-esteem by anyone, Muslims or otherwise, is St Therese’s form of spiritual meditation that fixates on the presence of the Trinity within the physical body.

    [MORE]

    It works, like magic, almost every time.

    Because it enables the conception of distinctions between the will, the intellect, the emotions and the soul. The body is conceived of as belonging to someone else, not to the individual, and this rightful ordering creates the spirit of charity towards the self.

    Islam doesn’t conceive of this with any precision or in fulness, but it’s a partial circle.

    Continued spiritual meditation of this sort, supplemented for example by the devotion to our Lady of Sorrows allows the reception of messages into the intellect, and heightened perception of the spiritual in the world.

    Try it. Do it for just a while – then pay attention to what you receive in the intellect. Anything that comes via the emotions is false. But the intellect is God’s demesne.

    ‘Our Lady of Dragons’ on Game of Thrones was a deliberate spiteful mocking of Our Lady of Sorrows.

    The point is that there is no relativism between meditation that begats nothing and meditation that begats something. One is useless, one is effective. One is false, or only partly true, the other is true, or more true. Okay? We don’t need the useless versions. We don’t need the partial versions. We don’t need diversity for it’s own sake.

    Thus any form of meditation that focuses on something not nothing is more true then mindlessness traditions from say the Bhagavad Gita. But only the form revealed to St Therese is the full circle.

    Nothing is not something. Or something that is different in kind like the Kundalini advancement is very different to the St Therese advancement. There is a reason St Therese is about the ceasing of sin and transmutation into the heavens and Kundalini Yoga is about submitting to a Snake – one goes up, one goes very dark, down, and deep.

    Don’t fall for the trap of ‘different perspectives’. Pedophiles just have a different perspective. Epstein just had a different perspective. The Rotherham rapists of the 1 million that Talha pretends don’t exist just had a different perspective.

    Anyway I’ll leave it there.

    I have no conflict with Muslims who stay in their own countries and are good little Muslims and don’t pretend the Muslims in the West aren’t engaged in the most prolific sustained rape since Gengis Khan.

    I do have a problem with Muslims counselling me to ‘just have children’ and chiding me for not submitting to false religion when my taxes pay every aspect of their lives from their passage to their provender. It just wrecks me aye. My parents did have to work hard, Muslim parents don’t – they get tens of thousands they take from my people and give it to their ten children who hate my people. Then they call me racist. They all have to go back – because this economic system can’t possibly last – and it won’t. They will be going back. It’s absolutely inevitable that the fiat private debt system will fail – both in the USA, and in China, and everywhere else it’s adopted.

    So anyway, lets see what happens.

    Do you know how much the Luciferians and Jews fear western mysticism? There used to be a video on Youtube from the Warhammer 40k universe with a Gregorian chant version of the fictional Space Marines litany. It’s been Shoahed, or Islam’d – because it is an echo of what St Therese was revealed. That’s the lesson of Gamergate – absolutely anything, anywhere, that is good and true and beautiful and western is going to get purged.

    But now it’s on Daily Motion. Because the enemies of the good, the beautiful and the true don’t want it to exist in any form, of any magnitude, in any mode, even disconnected from it’s true state.

    There you go – there’s the Gen Z version. The author’s of 40k knew what they were about.

    Anyway Talha I hope this has added something. I don’t disrespect you – just stay in your lane, and understand that actual westerners want nothing more then to stay in theirs.

    It also pisses me off that whites get the rap for slavery when Muslims and Jews owned 90% of the Slave trade – the Transatlantic slave trade was only 10%.

    So if you’re a dindu – take it up with Talha.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AaronB
  379. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    If you know what’s required to attain mastery of the science

    I actually know of scholars that know how to combat this stuff. The stuff they talk about having dealt with is quite crazy – because, apparently, when you help someone out the aggressive party then comes after you and your family. The only thing I can think of it being analogous to is underground drug wars.

    I attest more firmly to its reality now

    It is a portion of the phenomenal universe that is best left alone and only a very few people have the constitution required to deal with that stuff. Say your morning dhikr and prayers of protection dutifully and that should be sufficient.

    most of the world just laughs it off as horror genre fodder

    Just as they laugh at the concept of the devil:

    The reversion of parts of Europe to paganism and the public rise of Satanism is obviously not going to help the situation.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  380. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    Because it enables the conception of distinctions between the will, the intellect, the emotions and the soul….Islam doesn’t conceive of this with any precision or in fulness, but it’s a partial circle.

    We do, but you simply don’t know about it or don’t care. Not our problem really; the Sufi orders have been writing plenty of books and initiating plenty of people into these kinds of meditative spiritual practices for centuries.

    The Rotherham rapists of the 1 million that Talha pretends don’t exist

    You have an amazing ability to project views and statements and beliefs onto others that they have never themselves claimed; maybe it helps you sort through life.

    I never claimed that these things are not happening. In fact, I said it didn’t actually surprise me due to the kinds of Muslims attracted to the West.

    I’m going to guess you aren’t married? Am I right? If you are, I’m quite impressed actually. If you aren’t – you will likely lose your woman very quickly (unless you have many other positives that negate this) if you cannot rid yourself of this habit.

    I do have a problem with Muslims counselling me to ‘just have children’

    OK – don’t follow that advice and see what happens.

    chiding me for not submitting to false religion

    I’m not chiding you for that. I’m just telling you whining will get you nowhere – but if it helps you, go for it. Won’t change anything – it’s like masturbation; makes a person feel good for a while, but nothign comes out of it expect self-degradation. Your life man.

    My parents did have to work hard, Muslim parents don’t

    Nonsense – my parents came to this country with like $100 dollars. My dad had a university degree from Karachi and worked as a fry cook, my mom worked in a canning factory. We had to split the family for months at a time because sometimes neither couldn’t find work in a single area.

    Anyway Talha I hope this has added something.

    No problem.

    I don’t disrespect you – just stay in your lane, and understand that actual westerners want nothing more then to stay in theirs.

    Again, not a problem. Like I said; I have zero problems with ending immigration, but it would be nice if Western nations would stop destroying relatively stable Muslim countries since that really doesn’t help the situation.

    the Transatlantic slave trade was only 10%.

    I’d love to see a serious source for this ratio. We do know whites like Vikings were certainly capturing other whites and selling them in Muslim lands when the Muslims were the alpha civilization.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @Jeff Stryker
  381. @Talha

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8054403/Britains-coping-classes-at-breaking-point.html

    Sorry I actually understated it. The unemployment is 50% for men, and 75% for women. In the United Kingdom.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11952163/Muslim-men-having-20-children-each-because-of-polygamy-peer-claims.html

    Muslim men are having 20 children and paying for none of them.

    The UK whites are paying for them.

    Imagine that. It’s insane.

    https://www.thelocal.dk/20150309/denmarks-refugee-integration-efforts-have-failed

    In Denmark, after 10 years, 25% of Muslims have employment.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-germany/germany-to-spend-up-to-16-billion-euros-on-refugees-next-year-idUKKCN0SN1P020151029

    Just the relatively paltry number of fake rapefugees in Germany as at 2015 were forecast to cost about $16b per year every year of their parasite lives.

    It’s so bad in the Netherlands, the government is refusing to collect the information.

    Based on your formulation, those ‘boots on the ground’ could just be considered justice Muslim invasion and conquest of the Christian Byzantine Empire, North Africa and the Middle East, most of Eastern Europe, Greece, Northern Cyprus, and Spain.

    [MORE]

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/22/spanish-terror-attacks-four-men-appear-court-questioning-on/

    Remember how I said Muslims will destroy all the Christian art? They already tried. You are lying, unbelievably lying, if you pretend Muslims won’t destroy the art. THEY WILL they already are trying to.

    And they’ll be supported to by Antifa. .

    France has documented literally dozens of actual no-go zones in France:
    https://www.xavier-raufer.com/archives/mcc/html/archives/memoires_theses/vincent_tremollet/zone_sommaire.html

    So you refer to Napoleon – he didn’t have to deal with you.

    https://www.rights.no/2019/11/mens-sverige-blor-tjenestereise-mandag-og-tirsdag/

    Norway now regards Sweden as a strategic theat due to ‘an inferno of Muslim violence’.

    https://www.bild.de/wa/ll/bild-de/unangemeldet-42925516.bild.html

    58% of German women see public places as unsafe.

    I could provide literally hundreds of links.

    But the main point is the economic one – Muslims are being imported because of western cultural marxism leading to the destruction of national demographics. This is true. Muslims are meant to be paying the pensions of the post-Christian boomers who just want to be hedonistic and die.

    But the Muslims are actually just adding to the burden of various welfare systems. Which means the economic rationale for the migration is totally false.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5820445/Austrias-right-wing-government-plans-shut-mosques-expel-imams.html

    This is inevitable.

    https://www.bild.de/wa/ll/bild-de/unangemeldet-42925516.bild.html

    Muslims and migrants from the Muslim world committed almost 210,000 crimes in 2015.

    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-bund-stellt-knapp-94-milliarden-euro-bis-2020-bereit-a-1092256.html

    Muslims were forecast to cost Germany over $100billion between 2017 and 2020.

    Your argument consists of endless renditions of reality didn’t happen, and not true Islam.

    Its not going to work. It won’t work in Europe, it won’t work in the United States.

    I’m sure the constitution of Medina is a wonderful document. So is the constitution of Liberia – it’s almost an exact replica of James Madison’s US constitution.

    There is a difference between theory and praxis, and that’s what Europe’s leaders are in the process of discovering right now.

    Islam never fused Aristotle, so you favour theory over the empirical.

    I don’t know the future of Europe. Maybe, using the Royal ‘we’, we are indeed doomed to demise for forsaking Christianity. But what I do know with absolute certainty bourne of common sense is that the future of European identity is not Islamic. What that means, I can’t say.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  382. AaronB says:
    @Flint Clint

    Its not really “nothing” – the idea is that the Divine is beyond comprehension, so the more you try and approach Him through words or concepts, the further you get from true acquaintance with the Divine essence.

    This is also the heart of Christian mysticism. The Cloud Of Unknowing is a particularly famous example in English.

    The mystic “nothing that is nevertheless something” seems a vitally important concept that once you lose, you descend into materialism.

    I think a big part of what’s wrong with the modern world is that we have lost the sense of things beyond our comprehension, beyond our words and concepts and senses. We like to think that whatever we can’t see or think doesn’t exist.

    • Agree: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  383. @Talha

    Again, not a problem. Like I said; I have zero problems with ending immigration, but it would be nice if Western nations would stop destroying relatively stable Muslim countries since that really doesn’t help the situation.

    That’s where westerners are agreed.

    But take it up with Donald Rumsfeld, Wolf Blitzer, Henry Kissinger, Norman Podhoretz, Jonah Goldberg, David Spengler, Bret Weinstein, David Frum, Kenneth Adelman, Michael Ledeen, Richard Perle, Michael Rubin, Eliot Cohen and all the other court Jews of various hues on the Joint Chiefs and influencing the Executive who forced it to happen politically and logistically.

    These same swine are trying to force war with Iran and they are failing miserably because no one in western nations wants to repeat the mistakes of these neo-conservatives, who are Jewish.

    If they try to get white men to fight for Israel at this point, they will have to basically imprison most of the military age population because they aren’t going to fight.

    I agree with you entirely on that point.

    But to go back to my earlier point, another link:

    https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800

    Churches are being descrated and burned all over Europe.

    https://www.faithwire.com/2019/04/16/french-churches-are-being-destroyed-at-a-terrifying-rate/

    And the rate is increasing in correlation to Muslim immigration.

    So when I say that Muslims will destroy every trace of Christian art they can, in collaboration with the Satanic Europeans, it’s 100% accurate. They already are.

    So I don’t know, from a position of weakness, tell your buddies if they would be so kind as to stop destroying priceless art. Just leave them as museum pieces and build Mosques around them.

  384. Smith says:

    The Saker is writing like a girl, what’s next? Whining about “homophobia”?

    Also, for the record, “Islamophobia”, same as “Russophobia”, “Sinophobia”, “homophobia” and other survival mechanism of any civilization is a misnomer, it doesn’t mean we fear the scums, the foreigners, the faggots, it just means we want them far and away from our civilization.

    And no, Europe has deported jews and muslims since the medieval era (various jewish polgroms, the Spanish Reconquista), and Europe has done it again in WW2 and Russia also deported millions of germans (just because they are germans!) post-WW2. I didn’t see any civil war over them. The 5 millions of muslims in Europe are a pussy number and can be solved in a month or a year if the western government grows some balls and enforce their own policies.

    But alas, the greater enemy is the traitor western governments, not just the foreigners and the faggots.

    Westerners best wake up soon or there will be nothing left and humanity is forever shrouded in darkness.

    • Agree: Sbaker
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  385. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Culture trumps religion.

    Now if you gave a specific example of where culture actually overcomes a religious norm…

    Female genital mutilation. This is obviously cultural where practised by non-Islamic Africans.

  386. Smith says:

    My god, I forget “Jewophobia”, or what they say as “anti-semitism” in my post above. Though I wonder why anti-jews and anti-muslims are written differently.

    Hell, I would include “Christnophobia” or “anti-Christian”, because christians are total cancer in Asian countries, along with their fellow jews and muslims.

  387. @Talha

    Sir. The idea that Pakistanis in America are any sort of problem is absurd. The problem in California are Mexican and black gangs and occasionally the drug-addled poor whites (Charles Manson, Herzog and Shermantine).

    No Pakistani in America is going to menace anyone on the street. That is an impossibility.

    And crime is like any other industry. Even if your Pakistani UK gangs came to the US they would find that Mexicans sold the heroin, blacks do the pimping and a few high-end white criminal gangs like Armenians, Italians, Russians control organized crime in the US.

    They would get day jobs because they simply would not be able to make a living from crime in the US.

    To be a criminal or deadbeat in America is not easy. You have to have firepower and numbers behind you (Mexicans, blacks) or be incredibly well-connected (Italians, Russians, Armenians to a lesser degree in California). I suspect that deadbeats in Europe whether Muslim or ethnic European or whatever would not want to come to the US because the social safety net in the US is so lousy. It is far more comfortable to be a deadbeat who sits back and makes babies in UK, where you’ll have a house and amenities, rather than ending up in an RV in a parking lot at Walmart.

    Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein got involved with the nefarious Bush dynasty-this was their undoing. The Russians created the problem back 40 years ago invading Afghanistan in 1979 which then ushered in Bin Laden as a mercenary for the Bush family whose relationship with them went wrong-there is much more to the Bin Laden and Bush relationship then we will ever be aware of. Saddam Hussein also got involved in the Bush family to his own demise. I’ve never believed that Bush merely invaded Iraq for oil. If that were the case they would invade other more oil-rich countries.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Talha
  388. @SeekerofthePresence

    /Could you please show me the texts that say Buddha, Krishna, et al were crucified and rose bodily from the dead?!/

    You do realize that there are far too many varying accounts of the life of each of these figures to encapsulate here, do you not? Contemporary Christian apologists tend to cherry-pick those that appear to prove the wholly unprecedented character of the Pauline narrative, but all it takes is a single exception among many to undermine their argument.

    Fact is, evidence of both crucifixion in pre-Christian religious narrative as well as preceding cruciform iconography is abundant:

    https://archive.org/details/AcharyaS.SunsOfGodKrishnaBuddhaAndChristUnveiledpdf/page/n279

    As I wrote earlier, “Pauline Christians usually attempt to point out distinctions among the predecessors, but the fundamental similarities remain.” So, admittedly, Buddha may not have been crucified, but he was born of a virgin on December 25, visited by wise men who affirmed his divinity, feared by a king who felt endangered by him, followed by 12 disciples, transfigured on a mountain top, and ascended into heaven — many say bodily.

    The most significant common denominator among all of these myths is their relation to astrology or sun-worship. Every figure represents some form of celestial body, typically the sun.

    • Troll: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  389. Smith says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    lol, the spics and negros gangbangers in the US are gonna live in fear when they meet the muslim gangs.

    You don’t know nothing yet.

  390. Sbaker says:
    @peterAUS

    Sucker has not read the Semite’s constitution; the Koran. Study it and you will understand it is all about the another Semite progressive model for control of resources and subjugation of the ignorant. Wherever Sucker cites Islam, simply insert their incestuous sibling Judaism.

  391. Sbaker says:
    @FvS

    The islamophiles have ignored this just as their siblings in Judaism ignore it. Thank you for the post and thank you for your service.

  392. @Jeff Stryker

    …If Islam is so primitive why doesn’t Kuwait airport have potholes on the runway like the Detroit airport?

    I’ll try to answer. It’s because they were smart enough to select a Japanese achitect, Kenzō Tange, to design it, and contracted a Dutch company, Ballast Nedam*, to jointly construct it. Emiratis are smart enough to not have Muslims build their infrastructure. Makes them smarter than us, actually.

    [MORE]

    * Ballast Nedam also built the King Fahd Causeway.

  393. @Talha

    Talha,

    I’m generalising and of course there are exceptions to all generalisations, and you’re pointing those out.

    I’ve met plenty of converts that have gone overseas to study and this is absolutely not the case.

    Let’s say we’ve met different types.

    Many of them have hooked up with genuine Muslim spiritual guides

    You think the other lot haven’t? They move in same circles then find those that will help them network with those they come to seek out, after obvious security checks to prove they’re reliable and trustworthy as far as their intend purpose is concerned.

    and, of those, plenty have then come back to teach spirituality to born Muslims in the West.

    Ah there you go. To “born Muslims in the West” – like those “everyone is born a Muslim, they just don’t know it yet” until they see the light upon conversion.

    Look I don’t approve of those Muslim terrorists but I can’t really condemn them either. I condemn those in charge who fail to protect the public safety and security of European society and the integrity, culture, and heritage of European civilisation. Those others, well they do what they have to do, whatever they feel they need to, guided by hate and revenge for whatever the other lot do to their people, at least the originals. But even the converts do whatever out of their own free will. Not our problem. Our problem is that those who run our states’ governments have reneged on their duty to our own citizens, people, society.

    Sure there are exceptionally vile individuals everywhere especially among sex tourists and sexpats, but let’s say that many of the Arab and Indian sex tourists now in Southeast Asia are behaving like Israeli youths on holidays in Cyprus.

    I do appreciate many of the so-called Asian or Muslim values, especially the closeness and support in the family, the culture of honour (not the so called “honour” killings), but then it isn’t quite what it’s made out to be and it is being eroded and replaced with this global materialistic consumer culture.

    It can’t be all well with muslim countries considering that at the moment the immigrant wave is consisting predominantly of Pakistanis, and there is no war in Pakistan – the Syrians and Iraqis were the first wave, then the Afghans (of course there’s always some overlap and mixing of all of them and others too) . So on what basis do you think this mass of very young, and some not so young, Pakistanis can claim asylum in Europe? They’re definitely not war refugees. I’d venture to say that many claim the’re homosexuals or converts to Christianity as they would then face persecution or death in their country but then still go out with women (and some rape too) and go to the mosque. After all it’s the West right? They’re free to change their sexual orientation later on and bring their wives over, and convert back to Islam (but they actually never really converted to Christianity in the first place, just sort of pro forma for asylum purposes, and the muftis in the West can overlook that, perhaps even encourage it). Or maybe they could just throw away their passports and claim they’re Afghans, as what do Europeans know, they all look much the same to them. It’s all becoming a farce but what the hell it’s all in tune with the UN population replacement programme and Soros is paying. Some of these kids are not that bad; for some of them it’s just a great adventure and because they can get on it why not? Sort of like the hippy trail of the 60’s and 70’s, but this is now on a massive scale and involves bringing people of a different culture into homelands of others, and it also involves drugs, casual sex, petty crime and whatever not. And how come those Asian parents have allowed these kids, many teenagers, and many not from really desperate low class backgrounds, to venture out on this? Of course they all have some relative or friend out in the West they probably tell their parents they’re going to visit, and they’re definitely not some war orphans. Just an observation. Someone should write a song “If you’re going to Berlin, be sure to wear pink …”

    I see often and elsewhere you’re urging whites to reproduce. I don’t think it’s viable for whites to enter into a procreation competition with the rest as we’re far behind already and will be trailing behind the others no matter what, as well as having a far lower numerical base. Definitely whites should increase their TRF to 2.1 or above but the main thing is to resist the population replacement programme and secure the borders. European population recovered even after being decimated by the Black Death in the Middle Ages, so that’s not the problem – the problem is the globalist programme and eventually all will suffer if it is implemented.

    • Replies: @Talha
  394. It can’t be all well with muslim countries considering that at the moment the immigrant wave is consisting predominantly of Pakistanis, and there is no war in Pakistan – the Syrians and Iraqis were the first wave, then the Afghans (of course there’s always some overlap and mixing of all of them and others too) . So on what basis do you think this mass of very young, and some not so young, Pakistanis can claim asylum in Europe? They’re definitely not war refugees.

    Pakistanis are the most fanatic Muslims, even surpassing Saudi Arabia. These are Saudi trained with Petro Dollars. They do taqiyya and hide their fanatic beliefs under the banner of Suffism, by calling themselves peace loving Sufis. They even call for Offensive Jihad to convert and conquer by Sword! The person you have addressed your post to, believe this. Read his comments carefully by spending some time that will provide you much benefit in return!

  395. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    You think the other lot haven’t?

    Look, I’m not saying these kinds of converts don’t exist. I hear about them whenever I see some news article after they pull off another ‘Laaaau-Akbaaaar attack.

    I’m just saying, I’ve never come across a single one that leaned that way and I’ve met plenty. Now if your experience is different, that’s fine, I’m just not sure if you’ve met more converts to Islam or I have – which would give either my position or your position more weight.

    To “born Muslims in the West” – like those “everyone is born a Muslim, they just don’t know it yet”

    No, I actually meant Muslims born into Muslim families.

    Look I don’t approve of those Muslim terrorists but I can’t really condemn them either.

    I can condemn them; what they are doing is immoral – full stop and against the sacred law. I don’t care what justifications they give about what the US or the UK or France is doing overseas:
    “Mufti Rafi Usmani heads Darul Uloom Karachi, one of Pakistan’s most respected religious schools, or madrassas.
    ‘Islam does not allow killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants under any circumstances,’ he said in an interview with the BBC News website….
    Islam is absolutely clear on this issue. Two wrongs do not make a right,’ Mufti Usmani said.
    ‘If they feel that the US or the UK are killing innocent civilians in Iraq or Afghanistan, it does not give them the right to kill innocent citizens in London or New York,’ he said….
    ‘If an Iraqi living in London is outraged over Britain’s role in what is happening in Iraq, then he should go to Iraq and fight the coalition forces there,’ he [Dr. Sikander, head of Jamia Binoria in Karachi] said.
    Nothing gives him the right to hit back at innocent civilians living in the UK.’”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711003.stm

    Our problem is that those who run our states’ governments have reneged on their duty to our own citizens, people, society.

    Yup – that is the crux of the matter.

    So on what basis do you think this mass of very young, and some not so young, Pakistanis can claim asylum in Europe?

    They shouldn’t be able to unless they are flaming gay atheists that are trying to hold parades in Karachi, then they probably are in some danger.

    I’d venture to say that many claim the’re homosexuals or converts to Christianity

    Yup – I’m easily willing to bet that the kinds of Muslims super-attracted to the West and want to come there very badly are also the type that would be willing to lie to get in. Another reason to shut the door completely.

    I don’t think it’s viable for whites to enter into a procreation competition with the rest

    I’m not urging competition, I’m simply talking replacement numbers like you mentioned. I’m shocked at how many white people at my workplace have the means, but would rather have dogs or cats than kids. And let’s not get into the ones that are gay.

    This is what I find kind of silly to blame on others. It’s really not rocket science to find a mate and have two kids to replace the two of you. People living in mud huts and wearing loin cloths have been able to figure out how to do it. And if a society has become such that this is too complicated, then that version of society needs to die and be replaced by something else – simple as that.

    the problem is the globalist programme and eventually all will suffer if it is implemented.

    Yup – totally agree.

    Peace.

  396. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I agree that Pakistani gangs in the US are far less likely. Some of the Pakistani youth here put on a show as if they are gangsters, but wouldn’t last an hour in the inner city.

    The Russians created the problem back 40 years ago invading Afghanistan in 1979

    Yup – the international mujahideen networks all start there. That is where they gained legitimacy – of course, eventually squandering all that good will after years and years of sanguinary nonsense upon innocents around the world.

    Otherwise it would really have been mostly confined to the Israel/Palestine issue.

    Peace.

  397. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    OK – cool thanks for the links.

    Muslim men are having 20 children and paying for none of them. The UK whites are paying for them. Imagine that. It’s insane.

    Agreed – completely insane. It seems this is the main issue. Many of these people have obviously come here for a free ride. I imagine cutting the welfare to people that have a parasite mentality would really be all you need to do. One winter in Europe without central heating being provided for should be enough to provide these people with enough incentive to go back to warmer climates.

    You are lying, unbelievably lying, if you pretend Muslims won’t destroy the art. THEY WILL they already are trying to.

    Nope – not lying at all. In which of your articles cited does it say Muslims are destroying art in European museums? If they tried to vandalize these ancient works of art in the antiquity museums in the Muslim world, they would be shot on sight.

    Now, I will definitely say this; IF Daesh-type Salafi-Wahhabi-extremist Muslims become the largest and most numerous Muslims in Europe then; not only will all this art work be at risk, that will also be the very least of your worries.

    burden of various welfare systems

    Yup – pretty stupid ponzi-scheme to be honest.

    Which means the economic rationale for the migration is totally false.

    Yup – but you are not really convincing me of anything since I was never a supporter of mass immigration. So, thanks for the info, but you’re preaching to the choir.

    Your argument consists of endless renditions of reality didn’t happen, and not true Islam.

    No, I’ve actually cited a whole lot of sources, so sorry – that’s simply not the case. Now, if you are ignoring or not bothering to read them, not my problem.

    Islam never fused Aristotle

    No, we did, we just never accepted everything he had to say. The Persian polymaths of our Ummah chewed on what the Greeks had to say, and they swallowed what they liked and spit out the rest. Why would the heirs of Persian civilization merely ape what the Greeks – their civilizational rivals had to say?

    Do you think the Greeks were the only intelligent and civilized people on the planet? Why?

    I mean, maybe Europeans feel that way since so many of them were walking around in furs, thatched roofs and not bathing at the time of the Roman Empire. That’s why you guys use Latin letters, most of your languages had no script. But the Persianate world wasn’t in that condition at all and had no reason to be overly impressed by the Greeks. The Greeks had logic, but there were also patterns of logic and exploration of epistemology being done in the East which the Persians were already in contact with – so the Greeks weren’t the only shop in town (maybe for Europe, but certainly not for the East):
    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Dignaga

    I mean, sure the Greeks overran their empire and burned down their capital cities, but that was nothing the Persians hadn’t accomplished over them as well, so yeah – not impressed.

    The Persians provided the backbone for much of this religion. “Nobody did for Islam what the Persians did. NOBODY.”:

    so you favour theory over the empirical.

    Nope – we incorporate both. Again, if you really haven’t read anything by Imam Shatibi (ra) or his equivalent or read into the Maliki school discourse on the concept of al-Maslaha al-Mursala (http://www.iium.edu.my/deed/lawbase/maliki_fiqh/usul10.html), then sure you can hand out your opinions, but I have no reason to take them seriously. Every one has opinions and not everyone’s opinion has any relevance to every subject – especially one in which they have little grasp of its basic foundations.

    Now, if you have to actually look up a term like “Maliki” or “al-Maslaha al-Mursala”, then your opinion on Islamic jurisprudenctial theory or ethics is about as useful as my plumber’s opinion on gravitational waves. He’s entitled to his opinion, but it’s a complete waste of my time.

    But what I do know with absolute certainty bourne of common sense is that the future of European identity is not Islamic.

    Meh – we’ll see. And Indonesia and Malaysia were Buddhist and Hindu for centuries.

    So when I say that Muslims will destroy every trace of Christian art they can, in collaboration with the Satanic Europeans, it’s 100% accurate.

    Nope – it’s still around and plentiful in the Islamic heartlands. But again, see my point about Salafi-Wahhabi extremists.

    tell your buddies if they would be so kind as to stop destroying priceless art.

    I have about as much sway over “my buddies” as you do over convincing “your buddies” not to bomb the crap out of the cradle of civilization and bring devastation to its far more historical sites. Oh – and spreading radioactive misery in its wake – follow this account if you have the stomach for it:

    Peace.

  398. Art says:
    @I'm Tyrone

    “life itself” has precedence over reputation (Western Christian thought).

    That is why I think the West is better than the rest, even in its current degenerate state. But that is another conversation.

    We must NEVER accept the guilt trip put on the West by the Jews.

    None of us alive today under 70, had anything to do with WWII – yet we are made to feel guilty – we are restrained and our freedom is curtailed by the Jews.

    Pushing long term guilt on people is evil.

    The whole world is restrained from doing the right thing by the Palestinians – causing war after war.

    Jews are the masters of using guilt to enslave people.

    We in the West must get back to championing life – all of it – Palestinians too (Jews too).

  399. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    As it happens I am a little bit familiar with certain parts of the occult world in a very little bit of the US, and a little bit elsewhere. It is not a familiarity I am particularly glad of nor one I would wish to extend, but it puts me in a position to give about two-cents worth of opinion.

    And this is important.

    But it is irrelevant to most readers so under a tag.

    [MORE]

    the most expeditious means of combating sorcery is to avail of another sorcerer.

    Some advice here: DON’T. JUST DON’T.

    I’m not saying this sort of thing is never effective, and there are two aspects to consider here. The one is that in traditional “occult” practices around the world there is a fair bit of real physical knowledge mixed in. Nowadays, also, a number of practitioners of these arts have real medical degrees (this did not happen to be true of any I was personally aware of in the US, but I’m sure there are some here too). In many cases this medicinal knowledge is quite useful, just as the part of yoga that is an exercise regimen rather than pseudo-mystical nonsense is a pretty good exercise regimen.

    The other is that God is merciful, and for the ignorant people who trust in this sort of thing, and sincerely believe that they are doing right, He does not always disappoint them, and does not always taint them with the full horror of what they are doing, or what is being done in their names. This is true even when the wizard himself is someone who should know better, as for instance the famous Harries family of Cwrtycadno in Wales. For people like you or me, who also ought to know better, there will not be this degree of indulgence. If we traffic with people who have traffic with unclean spirits, the full horror I mentioned above will be visited on us one way or another. So don’t.

    Probably the most efficacious thing to do when one requires assistance in this sort of matter is to get hold of a proper exorcist. As a pious Muslim you will probably think yourself forbidden to do this; my point is really: how much worse, then, must it be to obtain the aid of wizards/spellcasters/etc. even if they claim to be Muslim? There are plenty who claim to be Christian, and very sincerely believe themselves so, and are playing with dangerous and potentially deadly forces they don’t understand. Again, these are people to AVOID unless one must know them socially. And avoid the forces they try to use: this is not limited to actively invoking the evil spirits but includes planchettes, ouija boards, etc. But you know this already. (Dealing with real demons, the advice of Christ was that they are driven out by “prayer and fasting”. This is good advice.)

    Again, not all wizards or spiritualists or whatever they call themselves are like this (some light relief). Some of them are respectable, educated, sincere, and not obviously disturbed. But this comment is primarily intended to say DON’T USE THEM for spiritual services. Ever. I know you don’t need to be told that, but when this topic comes up I want to be absolutely clear.

    The reversion of parts of Europe to paganism

    Has this actually happened anywhere? I’ve never met offline a “pagan” from a monotheist background who was actually serious.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Talha
    , @Talha
  400. Art says:
    @AnonStarter

    And if a woman should choose not to display it out of modesty?

    Hmm — here is the rub — are these women “CHOOSING” to be modest or are they being forced to be modest by a male dominated culture – a little honesty please.

  401. peterAUS says:
    @RSDB

    ….There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio….

    I knew a man who was, apparently, an assistant, once, to a person you describe as …a wizard?
    He spent some time institutionalized after that. Recovered fully, I guess and continued with his life. Never tried that again.

    What happened, apparently, in that session was…………..interesting.

  402. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    Thanks for your input.

    I fully agree with you about this statement:

    As a pious Muslim you will probably think yourself forbidden to do this; my point is really: how much worse, then, must it be to obtain the aid of wizards/spellcasters/etc. even if they claim to be Muslim?

    When I mention that there are scholars who try to counteract the aggressions of practitioners of witchcraft, I’m talking about those that are similar to what your priests do. They will recite certain formulas from Qur’an or hadith or other things like the names of Allah swt, etc. They do not try to counteract black magic with some other type of magic.

    I knew of a young scholar – a white convert actually – that learned about this kind of knowledge of how to help people that have been targeted. It really took a toll on him and even on his family. He eventually said he couldn’t do it any more.

    Again, not all wizards or spiritualists or whatever they call themselves are like this (some light relief). Some of them are respectable, educated, sincere, and not obviously disturbed. But this comment is primarily intended to say DON’T USE THEM for spiritual services. Ever. I know you don’t need to be told that, but when this topic comes up I want to be absolutely clear.

    Sec0nded.

    Has this actually happened anywhere?

    Yes, it is happening for sure; the Church has noticed:
    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/playing-with-fire-the-rise-of-the-neo-pagans

    Now, notice – these are called neo-pagans. They are not the original ones – that tradition died long ago in Europe. These guys are trying to bring back something they don’t necessarily have any organic tie to and basically trying to revive it from books and archaeological evidence. One of the reasons why I have worked out deals with my kids so that I can distract them from the nonsense surrounding Halloween; it may have been a fun little cultural thing in my youth, but as these things rise – it will take on a much more visceral embodiment. I can tell you the silly decorations in the neighborhood of my youth have now been replaced by some very realistic and just vile displays – my kids get freaked out by some of them; zombie babies and everything.

    According to Pew research, “folk religions” are slated to be right beneath Islam in gaining converts in the coming future:
    Peace.

  403. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    I would also suggest doing a search for videos on the “rise of paganism” or “neo-paganism” or such and you’ll see that people are indeed doing these pagan rituals in groups – whether Slavic or Scandinavian or Greek. One thing I noticed, they generally seem to be of the hippy variety. I’m not seeing Viking berserker stuff just yet, but it may arise.

    Peace.

  404. @AnonStarter

    Your “evidence” for multiple crucified and resurrected deities is a not-so-amusing bit of gaslighting.

    Your AcharyaS link above mentions pre-Christian images of crucifixions. So what? Crucifixion was common in the Roman world. You were asked to show a crucified and resurrected deity other than Christ. You offer none.

    How about a crucified and resurrected Krishna, which you claim above? Your own link contradicts your claim:

    “The orthodox depiction of Krishna’s death relates that he was shot in the foot by a hunter’s arrow while under a tree.” This illustration might have some vague relevance to Achilles, but none to Christ.

    How about a variant account of Krishna’s death which might suggest crucifixion?
    That account is put forth in your link by known fraud and fabulist Louis Jacolliot:

    ‘Jacolliot was searching for the “Indian roots of western occultism” and makes reference to an otherwise unknown Sanskrit text he calls Agrouchada-Parikchai, which is apparently Jacolliot’s personal invention, a “pastiche” of elements taken from Upanishads, Dharmashastras and “a bit of Freemasonry”.’ (Wikipedia)

    ‘Jacolliot was successfully sued for defamation by Father Honoré Laval ss.cc, and ordered by the Supreme Court of the State of the Protectorate of the Society Islands to pay 15,000 francs in damages.’ (Wikipedia)

    The uniqueness of Christ’s crucifixion and bodily resurrection stands, and is only reinforced by your failure to provide a valid counterexample.

    Again, for textual substantiation of the Resurrection, the Tour presentation in comment #49.
    For physical, the latest findings @ Shroud.com.

    Please do not respond to this post, as investigating vacuous claims is long and dreary, but life is short.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  405. @AaronB

    To approach the Ineffable in a manner “beyond our words and concepts and senses,” in Eastern Orthodox Christianity we call this the apophatic way.

    We apprehend this way through hesychasm, that is, divine silence.

    Or as Wittgenstein said,
    “Whereof one cannot speak,
    Thereof one must be silent.”

    And we pray always for God’s mercy:
    “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.”

    בְּטַח אֶל-יְהוָה, בְּכָל-לִבֶּךָ
    וְאֶל-בִּינָתְךָ, אַל-תִּשָּׁעֵן

    Trust in the Lord with all thy heart,
    And lean not upon thy own understanding. Prov 3:5

    • Replies: @AaronB
  406. @Seraphim

    Amen and Amen!

    Today we celebrate the Feast of the Nativity of the Lord, He Who came to the world to restore peace and love. May we war against evil and the self, fighting with the weapons of peace. And may the Prince of Peace enter our hearts anew, and may He bring about the peace that passes all understanding.

    Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

    With love in the New Born King,
    Abbot Tryphon
    Monday January 7, 2013

    Thank you so much for Christianthinktank, which I think will prove exceedingly useful.
    So many excellent questions come up, even on this one thread, about Christ and the Trinity. Glenn Miller did a superb job of presenting studies to address challenging questions.

    Still waiting on the Photius volume.
    In the middle of Bondarchuk’s “War and Peace.” Napoleon’s Grande Armee is crossing over the border into Russia, 1812. Most rewarding.

    Have a wonderful Nativity Season!

  407. AaronB says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    I agree.

    And thanks for the Hebrew quote, I can read it in the original 🙂

    In the West, this has all been lost, so that what passes for religion has a hollow core.

    I am quite certain that these ideas, basic to our mental health and existence, will return to the West in some new form, although it may not be recognisable at first.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  408. @SeekerofthePresence

    /Please do not respond to this post,as investigating vacuous claims is long and dreary, but life is short./

    An amusing request, but one with which I simply can’t comply.

    Your claim of “gaslighting” is equally amusing, particularly given the obfuscation that is the currency in which you deal. Let’s start with Jacolliot, upon whom you’re peculiarly fixated …

    You mention a defamation case in which he was successfully sued, but this case concerned allegations made against a priest, not Jacolliot’s comparison between Krishna and Jesus as articulated in The Bible in India, or the Life of Iezeus Christna, which is the text repeatedly referenced in the work of Acharya S. In fact, you don’t mention this text in your response at all.

    You then quote this single passage:

    /“The orthodox depiction of Krishna’s death relates that he was shot in the foot by a hunter’s arrow while under a tree.”/

    And thereafter, you suggest that the matter is settled, but if you’d bother to read further down the page, you’d find the following passage:

    “The body of the god-man (Krishna) was suspended to the branches of a tree by his murderer, that it might become the prey of vultures.”

    And if you read further, you’d also find further scholarly corroboration for an account of Krishna’s death that includes his crucifixion.

    You should remember that I explicitly wrote about numerous different accounts of the life and death of each of the “deities” listed. You’re doing exactly what I said most Christian apologists do: cherry-picking accounts that support your conviction and disregarding all others.

    Incidentally, there is an account of Buddha’s crucifixion. It’s not commonplace, but it exists. If you bother to read the following chapter to which I linked, you’ll find it referenced.

    But, if you can’t be bothered, so be it. I agree that life is short. As such, I’ll provide a link for further reference to several more crucified “deities”:

    https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cv/wscs/wscs21.htm

    Now, let there be no misunderstanding … I’m fully willing to concede that there is no exact parallel between these and the narrative you attribute to the life and alleged crucifixion of Jesus, but the parallels of expiatory sacrifice are undeniable, not to mention some religions in which theophagy (“god-eating”) was ritualized well before the beginning of the common era.

    I myself affirm that Jesus is real, not fictitious. I disagree, however, with how his life and death have been portrayed in Pauline Christianity, and the superimposition of paganalia upon that account is all too evident.

  409. Jila says:
    @Flint Clint

    Clint you have devoured the very zionist propaganda against immigrants or moslems as they planned for you. I’m not even sure you are not an Israeli plant.
    Whatever indices you use to compare yourself with these victimized others you will definitely be the loser. Whether in religion, economy or politics, these immigrants and moslems have every valid excuse for being there, being angry, being superior in intellect or inferior in sociopolitical reform, by which I really mean ‘religious’ reform.
    As you referred to the kalergi plan you know about the Zionist weaponization of immigration but your understanding of this weapon stops there. Let me illuminate how this weaponization is conducted to its final status. There are Israeli pseudo NGOs like IsraAID that operate out of mostly North African countries which select young African males, targeting moslem ones, and coaxe then into migrating to targeted European nations, paying for them all the way into Europe. Once in the country these immigrants are monitored by Mossad agents who set them up in committing some sort of crime, or actually commit the crime themselves disguised as immigrants. Israel has a whole army of Jews native to Africa and Middle East (and of course every other nation on earth) that it uses in its Mossad operations as the typical proxy to hide behind. These native speaker Jews. the Sayanim, provide perfect cover for Israel as they deflect all crime onto what seems like moslems or immigrants. Almost all of the disturbances in Europe have been instigated by Israeli agents. This is a war of zionists on the rest of the world. Instead of uniting with moslems, the Zionists want the west to hate and conquer moslems. And you are doing exactly what they want.
    Regarding religion, your Christianity is as vulgar and outdated and incredibly dangerous as the others. Don’t give us your silly holier than thou BS. In fact you are nothing but an uncultured little soldier of war, war, war, and more war. Get yourself some real education. I think you should read the Mark Curtis book ‘Secret Affairs’. It details the British collusion in creating Islamic fundamentalism, how they created Saudi Arabia as a front for export of Wahhabism and how for over two hundred years they’ve destabilized Middle East by promoting religious extremism in an otherwise secular region. It is long standing British policy that require those Islamic courts in UK, not moslems themselves. Most of the mosques and courts are run by Israeli agents anyway. This whole moslem immigrant charade is an Israeli operation from start to finish. The aim is for Christian and moslem to hate one another and thereby do the job of the Zionists for them. Wake the hell up. Or if you are an agent, then simply shut up.

  410. Jila says:
    @Talha

    Your religious adherence is a sign of dictatorial servitude. Any thinking human reflects on the efficacy of dogmas and religious tenets imposed on his society. If those tenets retard the growth and equality among various people, they must adjust their belief systems for the betterment of citizens.
    Saying women cover because ‘god told them’ is as ignorant as it gets. Ugh
    Brain is a muscle. If you don’t exercise it, it degenerates into a stale robotic state. Men and women need to exercise control of their lust, not command stagnation as a means of controlling their societies. As long as men think they can’t control their lust and require women to carry their responsibilities then both men and women will remain stuck in the jungle mentality.
    It is ONLY through practice that humans learn not through prohibition. An old Persian saying declares that the art of being human is to exercise goodness in the midst of challenge, and that hiding or dictating laws to protect your urges will never lead to real human growth. A wise man doesn’t hide in the mountains to stay pure. He shows and teaches his purity by living pure among sinners. Stop hiding women under a piece of cloth. That’s a mockery of both men and women’s true potential – limiting men’s self identification as lustful animals and women as sex objects…

    • Replies: @Talha
  411. PPB says:

    Buddha, Krishna, Jesus …

    Is it really surprising that the lives of these (to say the least) remarkable individuals have been overlain by mythic projections, whether truthful or simply overblown? Islam, on the other hand, while portraying Muhammad as the embodiment of the human ideal for Muslims to emulate, as well as the epitome of the prophetic principle, seems to have kept a pretty tight lid on the public mythologization of its revealer.

    To move a bit further east, Buddha’s death, according to the account that I recall, was caused by food poisoning when he was already an old man. Moreover, the Buddha himself, as far as I know, made no claim to personal divinity, but considered himself instead to be a human being who had awakened to a greater reality. Whether Krishna was a single historical individual, a mythic archetype, a composite of individuals, or some combination thereof, is from my perspective less important than the truth he communicated. I would say the same of Jesus: whether the life of Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels is historically and biographically accurate, or whether it is best interpreted as a divine allegory, is again subservient to the truth it expresses. The conclusion— again from my perspective— is that truth is the primary criterion of any indivisual who embodies, expresses and communicates it, and not the miraculous attributes or occurrences which might be associated with that individual, whether in fact or in our collective imagination only. A further conclusion, or perhaps its original premise, is that truth (in this case with a capital “T”), is prior to, and independent of, the myriad ways in which it might express itself on the world stage, which also allows it to sing to us in many different keys.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  412. Talha says:
    @Jila

    Your religious adherence is a sign of dictatorial servitude.

    OK, but we don’t really see a problem with this. You might, but we certainly don’t.

    There are some questions one must evaluate:
    1. Is there a Creator/Divine
    2. Is It concerned with the affairs of humans
    3. Does It have the right to assert ownership and command of humans
    4. Has it asserted that right and informed humans of what It expects of them

    None of the above are irrational statements. If we cannot agree on these initial points, then there is little room for further discussion. If you disagree (especially with #3), then you don’t have a problem with us – you have a problem with It/Him and you can argue your position when you meet.

    As for us…

    We are happy that the Creator has granted us knowledge about His expectations of us and how we can approach Him with willful sincerity and obedience – according to His wishes, not ours – so that we can reach beyond mere servitude and into a mutually loving relationship:
    “Verily Allah has said: ‘Whosoever shows enmity to a wali (friend) of Mine, then I have declared war against him. And My servant does not draw near to Me with anything more loved to Me than the religious duties I have obligated upon him. And My servant continues to draw near to me with nafil (extra, voluntary) deeds until I Love him. When I Love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, and his sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he strikes, and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him; and were he to seek refuge with Me, I would surely grant him refuge.’ ” – reported in Bukhari

    God is pleased with His believing and obedient slaves/servants and they are pleased with their Master:
    “O contented soul! Return to your Lord, well-pleased (with Him), well-pleasing (to Him). So, enter among My servants/slaves, and enter My Paradise.” (89:27-30)

    So freedom sounds nice – and it is – from those that do not deserve any obedience. But we fundamentally disagree on the assertion that God doesn’t deserve it.

    Brain is a muscle. If you don’t exercise it, it degenerates into a stale robotic state.

    Agreed. I don’t see what is unintelligent about the assertion that the Creator knows better than I do:
    “…But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.” (2:216)

    Men and women need to exercise control of their lust

    Agreed. And setting up society one way can help with this and another way can exacerbate the situation.

    Stop hiding women under a piece of cloth.

    Sorry, not interested in slut-walks in Makkah and Madinah.

    Unless you are for allowing women to walk around completely nude in public, you are also forcing them to hide under a piece of cloth and we are simply disagreeing about what and how large that cloth should be.

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @PPB
    , @anon
  413. Vojkan says:

    1. the official number of 5.7M muslims in France is an official lie. In reality, there are at least twice as many. Ethnic statistics in France are forbidden which allows to manipulate numbers for political purposes.
    2. Has the author ever lived in a majority immigrant muslim neighbourhood?

    You have to live among them to know them. All muslims are not bad people. All Jews are not bad people. Their group customs are incompatible with ours.

  414. @PPB

    Regarding the figure of Buddha, there have been, in fact, too many representations of his life to summarize here, and while you mention what many regard as the “orthodox” account of his death, there is an alternative account that resembles that of a particular version of Krishna’s demise that includes a crucifixion-like vignette.

    /I would say the same of Jesus: whether the life of Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels is historically and biographically accurate, or whether it is best interpreted as a divine allegory, is again subservient to the truth it expresses./

    This may be so, though there remains a significant difference between a religion predicated primarily upon the death-and-resurrection narrative of its apotheosized figurehead and one that places primacy upon affirming Messengers of God as exemplars of emulative conduct.

    This isn’t to say that Christianity is incapable of advocating an Islamic view of prophets; in some dispensations, it has. Yet the centrality of the passion play is akin to that of predecessor religions, where affirmation of the central figurehead’s sacrifice serves as a mean of vicarious atonement, relegating personal conduct to a subordinate matter resolved exclusively by said affirmation.

    /A further conclusion, or perhaps its original premise, is that truth (in this case with a capital “T”), is prior to, and independent of, the myriad ways in which it might express itself on the world stage, which also allows it to sing to us in many different keys./

    Yes, but is melodic polytonality the same as cacaphonic dissonance?

    Different keys won’t attain confluence without consciousness of polarity.

  415. @Talha

    It’s difficult to understand how some folk imagine that, on the one hand, human beings possess a natural knowledge of right and wrong yet simultaneously decry Islam for advocating good conduct based upon said knowledge. If one knows the risks inherent to gender integration, what harm is there in taking measures to safeguard oneself from them? The degree to which one does so may differ, but how can a person who acknowledges the risk condemn any who act upon the intention to do good?

    When we examine their arguments closely, they always appear to be crude, self-contradictory rationales for undermining Islam.

    Once again, I enjoy your response, alhamdulillah. There’s just one small detail I would amend:

    /3. Does It have the right to assert ownership and command of humans
    4. Has it asserted that right and informed humans of what It expects of them/

    There are a limited number of verses which begin with “O, man!”, followed by general admonition. Imperatives such as “fear your Lord” are about as specific a command directed at humankind gets, and even then, it’s admonition, not obligation.

    It is the faithful who have sold themselves and their property in exchange for the garden, those to whom the greater sum of ALLAH’s imperatives are directed, and those who are obliged to hear and obey them.

    • Replies: @Talha
  416. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Yes, agreed – the actual commands are expected of those you have made the “successful transaction” with Allah. The rest of mankind is offered the transaction:
    “O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve – then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.” (4:170)

    By the way, I just had this sent to me (see below the MORE tag) – I had no clue that Erdogan could recite Qur’an at an elite level. MashaAllah, he is better than plenty of imams I’ve prayed behind.

    Good to to know he always has a backup job if he gets kicked out of government.

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  417. @AaronB

    Hebrew is a most beautiful language.
    I believe God created it so that His people might respond to Him as lyre strings to the Player.

    The Proverbs are great in English, but nothing comes close to the Hebrew.

    Merciful God, restore the flaming Core,
    And leaven sage bread with Heaven-sent flour.

    • Agree: AaronB
  418. @Talha

    Thank you for your kind words. Very good to have you back from hiatus. Your cogent and elegant writing brings much to the UR banquet table.

    Thanks also for the extraordinary video (below, comment #433) of Erdogan chanting the Qur’an. If his fighting determination is a powerful as his chanting, the harlot Western military powers may have to think twice about muscling him as they do so many other countries.

    Somehow the West seems to have been converted to the heresy that military (and banking) force rules the world. It does not. God rules the world. I agree with the passages in the two remarkable videos (comment #429) “Muslim Scholars” and “Surah Al-Layl:”

    “The entire religion of Islam is based on submission.”

    “But as for he who withholds and considers himself free of need,
    And denies the best,
    We will ease him toward difficulty.
    And what will his wealth avail him when he falls?”

    Man was created to love and worship the living God.
    If a country believes that because of wealth, might, and other claims to exceptionalism, it rules the world, it invites humbling from God. Certainly it seems we are a time of increasing “difficulty.” The Bible warns of the Time of Jacob’s Trouble. Wealth and power save no one. Only God saves and preserves.

    Be well.

    • Replies: @Talha
  419. PPB says:

    ” … affirmation of the central figurehead’s sacrifice serves as a mean of vicarious atonement, relegating personal conduct to a subordinate matter resolved exclusively by said affirmation.”

    This being perhaps the central axiom of the (unfortunately widespread) kindergarten version of Christianity. One of the many things I admire about Jesus’s teaching is his gift for reducing the spiritual and moral dimensions of life to their common essence, while still emphasizing that all outward activity needs to flow harmoniously from that same essence.

    It’s also for this reason that I see Muhammad as having fulfilled the prophetic function more completely than Jesus did, by having communicated a complete blueprint for the spritual, moral, cultural, familial, transactional, etc. life of a rapidly widening community of followers. While Jesus did fulfill a similar role in his own way, I’m not sure that subsuming him within a lineage of Abrahamic prophets does justice to the entirety of his being– I see him as a bit more sui generis in that regard. But that’s a whole other conversation …

    “Yes, but is melodic polytonality the same as cacaphonic dissonance?”

    Even melodic polytonality can get a bit busy at times. But a well-tempered clavier should hold at least some of the dissonance in check.

    “Different keys won’t attain confluence without consciousness of polarity.”

    True enough, but what I was alluding to, however opaquely, was the ability of this life and existence, and the Spirit behind it, to sing to each of us in the tone and voice to which we are most receptive. Unsurpsingly, we tend to respond in kind.

  420. Hibernian says:
    @Hegar

    I think you said majority when you meant minority.

  421. PPB says:
    @Talha

    “3. Does It have the right to assert ownership and command of humans
    4. Has it asserted that right and informed humans of what It expects of them”

    This language, while asserting an undeniable ontological hierarchy between God and man, is also tainted by an imperious tone that will, and has, alienated people who experience God quite differently than as a feudal lord. There are, of course, passages in the Koran which exude quite a different tone. Even the word “submission”, which is the most common English translation of the word “Islam” in its nondenominational sense, carries a bit much of this same connotation for many ears. I once saw “abandonment” used in place of “submission”, and to my ears this sounded much cleaner and more full-spirited than “submission”, which hints at obsequiouness more than it expresses full-heartedness and freedom of will.

    “Men and women need to exercise control of their lust. Agreed. And setting up society one way can help with this and another way can exacerbate the situation.”

    Too strict a segregation can also heighten the polarity between the sexes to the point where uncontrollable lust really does become a problem. The fact that Utah and Pakistan have such unusually high pornography viewership rates should not come as a surprise. Not that this is an argument for the opposite extreme of widespread licentiousness, or for its consequences, which are all too obvious to have to comment upon.

    “Sorry, not interested in slut-walks in Makkah and Madinah.”

    You don’t say 🙂

    • Replies: @Talha
  422. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    The Bukhari passage could be taken to mean that God does not love the man who becomes blind, or the child that’s born deaf. This is troubling.

    • Replies: @Talha
  423. Talha says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    Thank you for your kind words.

    Most welcome and well-deserved.

    Very good to have you back from hiatus

    I’ll be clocking out soon. I just caught up on this thread, but will be unplugging for a bit. I may visit here and there to read an article or observe a thread, but will be part of the “silent majority”.

    Erdogan chanting the Qur’an.

    I was honestly as surprised by this as you. Apparently he has studied the art of recitation under some teachers.

    It does not. God rules the world.

    Amen.

    Man was created to love and worship the living God.

    No doubt. It’s the primary purpose; everything else in life is evaluated in its capacity to aid one towards that goal.

    If a country believes that because of wealth, might, and other claims to exceptionalism, it rules the world, it invites humbling from God.

    Yup. He’s done it plenty of times before, but people always think; “Not us, we’re the indispensable ones!” Which is literally inviting the chance to be made an example of just how dispensable they truly are:
    “Say; ‘O Allah, Master of dominion! You give sovereignty to whoever You will and You take sovereignty from whoever You will. You exalt whoever You will and You abase whoever You will. All good is in Your hands. You have power over all things.’” (3:26)

    Be well.

    May the angelic hosts likewise pray on behalf of you and your family through troubled times.

    Peace.

  424. Talha says:
    @anon

    No scholar I have ever come across has ever interpreted it in that manner, I would love to be corrected – if you can find any scholar that has done so.

    God can test His servants with whatever trial He desires and often, it is His way of exalting them and bringing them closer to Him:
    “When I test My slave regarding the two things he loves [i.e his eyes] and he remains patient, I repay him for them with Paradise.” – reported in Bukhari

    Come Judgment Day, there will be people that will regret having had the blessing of sight due to how they were ungrateful and abused it:
    “And the Day when the enemies of God will be gathered to the Fire while they are [driven] assembled in rows. Until, when they reach it; their hearing and their eyes and their skins will testify against them of what they used to do.” (41:19-20)

    Peace.

  425. Talha says:
    @PPB

    I once saw “abandonment” used in place of “submission”, and to my ears this sounded much cleaner and more full-spirited than “submission”, which hints at obsequiouness more than it expresses full-heartedness and freedom of will.

    I guess it is semantics, but one can consider the concept of aligning one’s will with that of the Divine Will. There are grades of approach to God, not all of them are the same, not all of them will yield the same results. Some approach God through their fear of Him, some approach through their hope in His reward and yet others approach through love. Human beings, their motivations and efforts are varied; some get A+s, some are happy with a B and some are just happy to have barely passed.

    Too strict a segregation can also heighten the polarity between the sexes to the point where uncontrollable lust really does become a problem.

    Sure – as with everything, extremes are not helpful.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @PPB
  426. @Talha

    You kind of made my case for me. The rise of ethno-nationalism essentially proves that culture trumps religion because culture is the collective expression of a race/ethnic group’s worldview.

    Now if you gave a specific example of where culture actually overcomes a religious norm, then that would be a more interesting case.

    That’s easy. Let’s look at South Asia again. What are some of the cultural traits that south asian muslims have been known for over the last 1000 years? I can think of 3 things –

    1) Qawalis and ghazals – Music – haram
    2) shayiri – Poetry – haram (Sharab peene do Masjid mein baith kar
    Ya woh jagah batao jaha khuda nahi. – Ghalib)
    3) Kotha/Courtesan culture – mega haram

    With their penchant for poetry and music, it’s no wonder that Muslims dominate Bollywood. Again, culture (and race) > religion.

  427. PPB says:
    @Talha

    “I guess it is semantics, but one can consider the concept of aligning one’s will with that of the Divine Will. There are grades of approach to God, not all of them are the same, not all of them will yield the same results. Some approach God through their fear of Him, some approach through their hope in His reward and yet others approach through love. Human beings, their motivations and efforts are varied; some get A+s, some are happy with a B and some are just happy to have barely passed.”

    Excellent response, thank you. Also, I don’t know any Arabic, so I have no idea what resonance or connotation the original words convey to a native speaker. I can only comment on the translated language.

  428. @Talha

    Jazakumullah khayr, akhi.

    As we witnessed with the attempted coup, it’s going to be a knock-down, drag-out fight in Turkey.

    The enemies of humanity are gearing up for an expansive conflagration throughout the Middle East and beyond. May ALLAH protect the faithful and spare them the ravages thereof.

    Ameen.

    was-salaam.

    • Agree: Talha
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