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General Ratko Mladic, now 75, was sentenced last week to life in prison by the NATO kangaroo court known as the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY). It is worth mentioning here that, just like Bosnian-Serb President Radovan Karadzic and Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic, Mladic was attested and handed over to this NATO tormentors by the Serbian authorities. That tells us all we need know about the current colonial status of Serbia and about the comprador nature of the regime in power in Belgrade.

For the AngloZionist Empire, this is all about humiliating the nation which dared to defy it. Because make no mistake, that is the true unforgivable sin that the Serbs are guilty of and for which they are now being humiliated: they dared to defy the AngloZionist Empire and they did so alone, without even any meaningful support from Russia. In fact, the Bosnian-Serbs alone dared defying the US, the EU and NATO not only without the support of Russia, but even without the support of the Yugoslav authorities in Belgrade (Slobodan Milosevic imposed sanctions on his Serbian brothers in Bosnia!). In doing so the Bosnian-Serbs showed the world a level of courage which the typical modern European can’t even begin to imagine, nevermind comprehend. Likewise, the war in Bosnia was largely misunderstood when it happened and now it is almost forgotten. Yet I would argue that this war played an absolutely crucial role in shaping the following decades. So let’s remember a few things which happened at that time.

First and foremost, this was a case of monumental, mind-blowing hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice. Hypocrisy because the Serbs were given one Commandment “thou shalt not secede” while the Slovenes, Croats, Bosnian Muslims and, later, Albanians were given the exact opposite command: “thou shalt secede” by turning administrative boundaries into national borders. Betrayal because Yugoslavia was founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement but yet all the putatively non-aligned fully aligned themselves to the Empire and against Yugoslavia. And cowardice because nobody, not a single country, had the courage to speak the truth about the history of the WWII genocide of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia while, at the same time, producing tsunamis of crocodile tears about Cambodia, Rwanda and, of course, the obligatory “Holocaust”. Everybody looked away, and those who yesterday had engaged in acts of unspeakable atrocities (Croats and Germans especially) “generously” told their Serbian victims that bygones should be bygones and that history did not matter. And when finally international law was overtly and viciously violated when the “western democracies” used their airpower to support the terrorists and thugs of the KLA, not a single lawyer or politician had the brains to realize that what died the day the first bomb fell on Serbia was the entire international order created after WWII. It is hard for me to imagine more shameful and disgusting behavior of all the European countries that not only did not defend one of their own, but even enthusiastically assisted the AngloZionists in their vicious and disgraceful war on the Serbian people.

Truly, that war had it all, every dirty trick was used against the Serbs: numerous false flags attacks, pseudo-genocides, illegal covert operations to arm terrorist groups, the covert delivery of weapons to officially embargoed entities, deliberate attacks against civilians, the use of illegal weapons, the use of officially “demilitarized zones” to hide an entire (fully armed) army corps – you name it: if it is disgusting it was used against the Serbian people. Even deliberate attacks on the otherwise sacrosanct journalistic profession were considered totally normal as long as the journalists were Serbs. As for the Serbs, they were, of course, demonized. Milosevic became the “New Hitler” (along with Saddam Hussein) and those Serbs who took up arms to defend their land and families became genocidal Chetniks.

One of the worst aspects of the war was the absolutely disgraceful behavior of Muslim nations and communities worldwide: they all supported their supposed ‘brethren’ in Bosnia even though the latter were 1) useful idiots for the Empire 2) mostly secular and 3) when religious, of an imported “Saudi wahhabi” kind (just like in Chechnia, by the way). Instead of trying to make sense of what was really taking place, the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide reacted in knee-jerk manner I call “wrong or right – my Ummah!”, even the Iranians fell into that AngloZionist trap. Muslims worldwide were conned by the Empire only to find themselves in exactly the same situation as the Serbs, only a decade later. Some would say that this is just karmic justice, but I take no joy in that since the Muslim who ended up on the receiving end of the Empire’s policies were overwhelmingly innocent victims and not those politicians who allied themselves with modern Crusaders and Jews against their Orthodox neighbors. Nowadays the (fictional) “genocide” of Bosnian-Muslims by Serb and, especially, the myth of Srebrenica is still used by the Empire to try to divide Orthodox Christians and Muslim to better rule over them all or, even better, to have them fight each other.

Yes, all the anti-Muslim GWOT-wars after 9/11 have their methodological roots in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. There will come a day when Muslims will come to understand that fact and they will then reevaluate what they thought they knew about the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Nowadays the same western hypocrites who whine about the “Russian occupation of Crimea” forget that a referendum was organized there in which 96.77% of the population voted to join Russia. Or when they do mention it, they say that it was illegal because people had to vote at “gunpoint”. But what is never mentioned is that in Kosovo no referendum of any kind ever took place, not even after the full ethnic cleansing of Kosovo (the biggest liar of them all, Obama, even stated that Kosovo only left Serbian after a referendum!).

ORDER IT NOW

[Sidebar: I realize that in the paragraphs above I used words which are not normally used in political analyses. Words like “hypocrisy” “betrayal” “cowardice” “shameful” “disgusting” or “disgraceful” are usually seen as too partisan, too emotional and not objective or neutral enough. Well, I *proudly* proclaim my totally non-neutral position on this absolutely disgusting and immoral war against the Serbian nation. How can we hope to ever make a change in the disgusting world we live in if we don't use moral categories and if we refuse to show outrage when outrage is warranted? Just like Kennedy declared that he was a Berliner and tens thousands of brainwashed TV-watching drones declared that they “were Charlie,” I hereby declare myself a proud and unrepentant Bosnian-Serb Chetnik! On the issue of the Serbian nation I have no and want no “neutrality”---period!]

There is another event which has been largely forgotten since but which we now see was a watershed: on 24 March 1999 the Russian Prime Minister, Evgenii Primakov, was on his way to Washington DC when he got the news that the US and NATO had attacked Yugoslavia. Primakov then ordered his pilot to make a u-turn over the Atlantic ocean and fly back to Russia. Primakov, who passed away in 2015, was a highly respected statesman and diplomat, and he remains so to this day. His u-turn over the Atlantic will go down in history as the very first sign of Russian resistance to the Empire. You could say that Primakov’s u-turn marked the end of an era in which Russia still harbored some naïve hopes that her western partners were not gangsters and thugs. One more thing: Primakov was *exactly* the kind of Russian deep-state actor who might have played a key role in the process of succession to Eltsin. One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power. That also would be karmic justice.

Finally, the US/NATO aggression against Yugoslavia showed for the very first time the limitations of airpower and cruise missile attacks against a well entrenched adversary: 78 days of missile and bomb strikes did hurt, maim and kill a lot of civilians, but the Serbian Army Corps in Kosovo remained basically unscathed. That is why the airstrikes had to be ‘expanded’ to all of Yugoslavia to terrorize civilians, just like the British did in WWII against Germany or the Israelis against Lebanon in 2006. But what decided the outcome was never the use of NATO airpower, but a simple and cynical deal made between Milosevic and the Empire: if he agreed to hand over Kosovo he would be allowed to remain in power. Milosevic accepted only to later find himself murdered in the Hague. So much for trusting your future to the Empire…

Looking back, one would be forgiven for assuming that the Serbian people have now been totally humiliated and that their spirit of resistance is broken. And, to some degree, this is no doubt true today, hence the existence of pro-NATO pro-EU political movements in Serbia. But these only exist because the Empire is funding and maintaining them (for example, the Serbian media is totally Empire-controlled). But let me suggest the following thought experiment.

Imagine for a new minutes that for some reason the Empire collapsed. No more NATO and probably no more EU. Or maybe just a little NATO and just a little EU left in spite of it all. But, more importantly, no Camp Bondsteel. What do you think would happen?

The ethnically cleansed Krajinas are probably not worth fighting for. If you were Serbian, would you want Croats as your neighbors? How wise would it be to risk your life and family by living in a few small basically indefensible enclaves surrounded by folks who have proven over and over again that, if given the chance, they will try to convert 1/3rd of you, expel another 1/3rd and murder the remaining 1/3rd? Of course many Croats are wonderful and kind people who want nothing to do with that kind of Ustashe politics, but these good Croats made no difference, not in WWII and not in the latest AngloZionist war against the Serbian nation. If I was a Serb I would never contemplate returning to the Krajinas, the risk is simple too big.

Orthodox Shrines in Kosovo

Orthodox Shrines in Kosovo

Bosnia is a very different story. The poor Bosnian-Muslims were used as a tool and with time they will inevitably come to the realization that they sided with the wrong party in that war. So there is still hope for Bosnia, in spite of it all. Furthermore, the Bosnia-Serbs are still the victors in this war. Yes, they had to accept a bad deal because they were basically fighting the entire planet alone, but you could also say that their courage forced the AngloZionist to accept the existence of a Republika Srpska inside Bosnia, not something they wanted. I have met enough Bosnian Serbs to say that these are extremely tough and courageous people and that as soon as NATO collapse, which it will, they will easily be in the position to set the terms of their future coexistence with the Bosnian Muslims and Croats. When that happens I hope that Russia will actively promote her “Chechen example” and put enough pressure on the Bosnian-Serbs so that they act with decency and restraint against their former enemies. Considering that there is, alas, an undeniable core of truth in the accusation that the Bosnian-Serbs did commit atrocities against civilians during during the war, even if not anywhere near the numbers claimed by the AngloZionist propaganda, my feeling is that the Bosnian-Serbs will act with restraint and in a honorable way.

Orthodox Kosovo

Orthodox Kosovo

But Kosovo? The place where hundreds of Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed and thousands of Serbian murdered (while NATO watched and did absolutely *nothing* to stop these atrocities!)? Let’s just say that if I had an Albanian friend living in Kosovo today I would strongly urge him to get the hell out while he still can. Kosovo will be the very first place in Europe where the pendulum of history will reverse its current course. There is simply no way that Serbs will ever accept the theft of their ancestral land and spiritual cradle by a combination of Albanian gangsters and western air forces. Nor should they. An Albanian occupied (aka “independent”) Kosovo is a fiction which can only be maintained by the AngloZionist Empire – as soon as it tanks Kosovo will be liberated.

Right now the Serbian nation has been chopped up in pieces and the slogan that “only unity can save the Serbian people” has proven itself to be true. Right now the Serbian people are barely surviving and their unity is in tatters. Even the official Serbian Church is controlled by pro-Western Ecumenists bishops who rely on the civil authorities to illegally persecute those bishops who refuse to bow the knee to the New World Order like Bishop Artemje of Raska and Prizren.

But in their history, the Serbs have survived much worse and I don’t believe for a second that the current nightmare will extinguish the Serbian national identity. In fact I believe that the Serbian people will be reunited (Montenegro or Bosnia are very roughly to Serbia what the Ukraine or Belarus would be to Russia) and when that happens all those who participated in the AngloZionist lynch mob against Serbia will be too ashamed of themselves to look the Serbian people in the eye.

Today the Empire is celebrating the apparent victory of it’s kangaroo court in the Hague. But they forget that the modern Serbian national identity was born from a much bigger defeat suffered, by the way, just a few miles to the northwest of the so-called “capital” of the “independent” Kosovo: Prishtina, at place called Kosovo Pole. Yes, modern Serbia was born from a huge defeat! Those who today are rejoicing in their victory against Serbian might want to ponder this fact.

In the meantime the Empire is still in the humiliation business, its latest victim being the Russian Olympic Committee and, more relevantly, all the Russian athletes and all the Russian people. That is just par for the course and it would be naïve to expect anything else from the kind of international world order which was born on the day the Empire attacked Serbia. For the foreseeable future, hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice will remain the order of the day even if nothing can be built by such anti-values. Hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice are also infinitely uninspiring thus they carry in themselves the seeds of their own demise. Thus the liberation of Kosovo will not only be a political one, but even more importantly also a moral and spiritual one. In a world ruled and even defined by hypocrisy, betrayal, cowardice and, above all, lies, Kosovo cannot be liberated. I would say that we, all of us, won’t *deserve* a free Kosovo as long as we allow evil to rule the world as it does today. But I also know that lies, or even death, cannot defeat the Truth and that Kosovo shall be liberated.

 
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  1. Golly gosh I don’t know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

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    • Replies: @Alias Anonymous
    To The Saker Serbs are the good guys and Muslims the bad guys.

    To Eric Margolis Muslims are the angels and Serbs the demons.

    Who really is right?
    , @mikkkkas
    You don't? Check this out then;
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/milosevic-test-your-media/2110
    , @Kiza
    Margolis is a leading CIA journalist. He skilfully writes left-leaning pieces into which he weaves in US Deep State propaganda.
    , @Rado Mir
    To me it was enough to read this part ''... a strategy to create an ethnically pure Greater Serbia, purged of Catholics and Muslims...'' to understand what kind of ''hardened war correspondent'' he is. Nowadays, when we have (of Serbs) ethnically totally cleansed Kosovo, Croatia and parts of Bosnia and Hercegovina, he steel dares to tweet same old phrase: '' Catch that thief...''. Knowing, Serbia is absolutely most multiethnic society in this part of Europe. And also knowing such a fact that the great part of bosnian muslims then escaped war time tragedy seeking place of refuge guess where? In that (Great) Serbia, exactly. Saker (The Great) knows very best all of that ''at first hand'', because he was right there in that time and ''at the source of the information''.
    , @Antiwar7
    Eric Margolis's mother is Albanian.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Margolis_(journalist)#Background

    More importantly, the article of his you cite is a tissue of lies from start to finish. There was no Greater Serbia project: this existed only in the quotes of their enemies. What's left of Serbia itself (i.e., without Kosovo) is the most ethnically mixed of the successor states, and there was never any danger of that changing. During the Bosnian war, many Bosnian Muslim refugees fled to Serbia.

    The 8,000 figure has no basis in fact. See, for ex:
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/16/denying-the-srebrenica-genocide-because-its-not-true-an-interview-with-diana-johnstone/
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-srebrenica-massacre-was-a-gigantic-political-fraud/5321388
    , @Proud_Srbin

    is still used by the Empire to try to divide Orthodox Christians and Muslim to better rule over them all or, even better, to have them fight each other.
     
    It is still TABOO for professional analysts to CLEARLY state historical FACT that for the last 700-800 years the ROOT of all EVIL in the world hails from the Island north of today's France and their western and other satraps.
    , @anon
    Margolis is a Muslim sympathizer. Take what he says with a big grain of salt.
    , @easy
    Just ask yourself: what is the religion of Margolis? and then you know his agenda.
    , @My2cents
    The Eric Margolis peace is one American/Canadian peace of propaganda.
    Milosevic was found innocent of all allegations.
    The 8000 Muslim deaths was an invention, a cruel hoax.
    Every war crimes tribunal since WW2 served solely to point the finger at one party and to cover up the war crimes of US/NATO
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  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power.

    That wouldn’t surprise me. At the time, Russia was getting humiliated at home by (((experts))) they were told to trust but the Balkan wars revealed other pieces of the puzzle. It became obvious that the West (most of it anyway) was being controlled and used by a hidden hand – a supranational, ruthless and deceptive group of “elites” who were just getting started. After the fall of the USSR they felt confident and less worried about various “international norms” and other pretences. The NWO was within reach.

    Things have only gotten worse since then but the hubris and the incompetence (brother and sister of multi-generational nepotism) are really taking their toll. Everyone knows.

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    • Replies: @survey-of-disinfo

    One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power.
     
    Too delicious: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Putin_the_Good_Goy

    That, above, is one account of "getting" Pooti-Poot to "power".

    Serbian says:


    Goodbye, Russia. We Serbs can no longer stand with you in any sort of alliance, until you're once again able to rule yourselves, until you stop trading your allies, selling them out for pennies and empty slogans. We can't be with you until you free yourself of your anti-Slavic extremists...

    Goodbye, Russia. We love you more than ourselves. For us you're a myth, like Kosovo. But as it turns out, this myth is a myth of a Russia which doesn't exist.

    (Bozidar Trifunov Mitrovic. "The Genocide of the Romans and Slavs".)
     
    "Saker", you are so transparent. My skin crawls just reading snippets of your work. Does your skin crawl when you write it?
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  3. MarkinPNW says:

    My understanding of what happened to Yugoslavia actually comes from research and postings at an old website; polyconomics.com run be the late political economist Jude Wanniski, and also from Antiwar.com in the 1990′s.

    Basically Wanniski showed that the bankers, through the IMF (International Monetary Fund) and World Bank did a deliberate Perkins type of economic hit on the Yugoslav economy because they apparently did not like Yugoslavia’s “Market Socialism” – not capitalist enough. All the various nationalities and ethnicities were apparently willing to co-operate when times were good even if they did not like each other, but when their economies were deliberately destroyed, all their resentments over past conflicts and genocides came to the fore in violent conflict.

    Later events seem to show that one thing the international bankers were after was Kosovo’s mineral wealth, especially gold, that they could not exploit as long as Market Socialism policy insisted on mineral wealth of the country being for Yugoslavia’s people and government and not for the foreign international bankers. Thus the need to destroy the prosperity and peace of Yugoslavia to get control of Kosovo’s minerals.

    Perhaps the real losers were all of the different groups of the former Yugoslavia; Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Kosovians, Orthodox, Catholic, Muslim, whatever; and the winners are the Bankers of the west who, in deliberately destroying the peace and prosperity of Yugoslavia, got control their natural resources, such as the Gold of Kosovo.

    The whole Yugoslavia episode, and the economic explanations from the above mentioned Polyconomics website, was actually the beginning of my taking the red pill and waking up to the reality of what the New World Order and PNAC was and is all about.

    There were other things that also helped to wake me up, mainly teachings from my childhood religious traditions which warn about secret combinations that “… seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning. ” *

    Unfortunately many in this religious tradition are trying so hard to be accepted by the world, and especially by the pro-Zionist evangelicals (even though the pro-Zionist evangelicals still do not accept them as “True Christians”) that they support all of the Zionist and neo-con pro-war agenda.

    *Ether 8:25 from “The Book of Mormon; Another Testament of Jesus Christ”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
    Right! The Empire cares naught for human rights, self-determination, etc. Follow the money!
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  4. peterAUS says:

    Mladic was attested and handed over to this NATO tormentors by the Serbian authorities. That tells us all we need know about the current colonial status of Serbia and about the comprador nature of the regime in power in Belgrade.

    Too harsh, really. They had no choice. Mladic was protected as much as possible. It wasn’t possible to do that anymore.

    For the AngloZionist Empire, this is all about humiliating the nation which dared to defy it. Because make no mistake, that is the true unforgivable sin that the Serbs are guilty of and for which they are now being humiliated: they dared to defy the AngloZionist Empire and they did so alone, without even any meaningful support from Russia. In fact, the Bosnian-Serbs alone dared defying the US, the EU and NATO not only without the support of Russia, but even without the support of the Yugoslav authorities in Belgrade (Slobodan Milosevic imposed sanctions on his Serbian brothers in Bosnia!). In doing so the Bosnian-Serbs showed the world a level of courage which the typical modern European can’t even begin to imagine, nevermind comprehend.

    Well, be that as it may, how, then one is to explain the sentencing of those Croats just last week?
    Balkans games, then and now, are a bit more complicated than Saker is trying to explain here.

    First and foremost, this was a case of monumental, mind-blowing hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice. Hypocrisy because the Serbs were given one Commandment “thou shalt not secede” while the Slovenes, Croats, Bosnian Muslims and, later, Albanians were given the exact opposite command: “thou shalt secede” by turning administrative boundaries into national borders. Betrayal because Yugoslavia was founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement but yet all the putatively non-aligned fully aligned themselves to the Empire and against Yugoslavia. And cowardice because nobody, not a single country, had the courage to speak the truth about the history of the WWII genocide of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia while, at the same time, producing tsunamis of crocodile tears about Cambodia, Rwanda and, of course, the obligatory “Holocaust”. Everybody looked away, and those who yesterday had engaged in acts of unspeakable atrocities (Croats and Germans especially) “generously” told their Serbian victims that bygones should be bygones and that history did not matter.

    Correct.
    But:
    The most of ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, at least in the beginning, was done by Serbs, especially against Muslims in Eastern Bosnia.
    Funny….actually……
    Saker always talks about Nazi this/that, , collaborators with Germans this/that, Bandera this/that, “Ukronazis this/that”.
    Well…my friend, the Serb movement in Bosnia in the latest round, at its heart, was Chetnik movement; the guys who sided with Germans in WW2. How did you miss that element here? How about…..”Serbonazis”, perhaps?

    And when finally international law was overtly and viciously violated when the “western democracies” used their airpower to support the terrorists and thugs of the KLA, not a single lawyer or politician had the brains to realize that what died the day the first bomb fell on Serbia was the entire international order created after WWII. It is hard for me to imagine more shameful and disgusting behavior of all the European countries that not only did not defend one of their own, but even enthusiastically assisted the AngloZionists in their vicious and disgraceful war on the Serbian people.
    Truly, that war had it all, every dirty trick was used against the Serbs: numerous false flags attacks, pseudo-genocides, illegal covert operations to arm terrorist groups, the covert delivery of weapons to officially embargoed entities, deliberate attacks against civilians, the use of illegal weapons, the use of officially “demilitarized zones” to hide an entire (fully armed) army corps – you name it: if it is disgusting it was used against the Serbian people. Even deliberate attacks on the otherwise sacrosanct journalistic profession were considered totally normal as long as the journalists were Serbs. As for the Serbs, they were, of course, demonized. Milosevic became the “New Hitler” (along with Saddam Hussein) and those Serbs who took up arms to defend their land and families became genocidal Chetniks.

    Agree.

    One of the worst aspects of the war was the absolutely disgraceful behavior of Muslim nations and communities worldwide: they all supported their supposed ‘brethren’ in Bosnia even though the latter were 1) useful idiots for the Empire 2) mostly secular and 3) when religious, of an imported “Saudi wahhabi” kind (just like in Chechnia, by the way). Instead of trying to make sense of what was really taking place, the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide reacted in knee-jerk manner I call “wrong or right – my Ummah!”, even the Iranians fell into that AngloZionist trap.

    Agree.

    Muslims worldwide were conned by the Empire only to find themselves in exactly the same situation as the Serbs, only a decade later.

    Conned my arse. Not conned at all. Deliberate. Very…deliberate.

    Nowadays the (fictional) “genocide” of Bosnian-Muslims by Serb and, especially, the myth of Srebrenica is still used by the Empire to try to divide Orthodox Christians and Muslim to better rule over them all or, even better, to have them fight each other.

    Well…there were ethnic cleansing, concentration camps, mass killings and such. Was that a genocide is a different matter.
    As for that “divide”, man….Why don’t you go and visit Serbs from Srebrenica and speak with them. Ask them what they think about that idiocy of yours.

    a simple and cynical deal made between Milosevic and the Empire: if he agreed to hand over Kosovo he would be allowed to remain in power. Milosevic accepted only to later find himself murdered in the Hague. So much for trusting your future to the Empire…

    Agree.

    Imagine for a new minutes that for some reason the Empire collapsed. No more NATO and probably no more EU. Or maybe just a little NATO and just a little EU left in spite of it all. But, more importantly, no Camp Bondsteel. What do you think would happen?
    The ethnically cleansed Krajinas are probably not worth fighting for. If you were Serbian, would you want Croats as your neighbors? How wise would it be to risk your life and family by living in a few small basically indefensible enclaves surrounded by folks who have proven over and over again that, if given the chance, they will try to convert 1/3rd of you, expel another 1/3rd and murder the remaining 1/3rd? Of course many Croats are wonderful and kind people who want nothing to do with that kind of Ustashe politics, but these good Croats made no difference, not in WWII and not in the latest AngloZionist war against the Serbian nation. If I was a Serb I would never contemplate returning to the Krajinas, the risk is simple too big.

    Smart.

    The poor Bosnian-Muslims were used as a tool and with time they will inevitably come to the realization that they sided with the wrong party in that war.

    Hahahaha…….oh man…..

    Now…the heart of the matter:

    I have met enough Bosnian Serbs to say that these are extremely tough and courageous people and that as soon as NATO collapse, which it will, they will easily be in the position to set the terms of their future coexistence with the Bosnian Muslims and Croats. When that happens I hope that Russia will actively promote her “Chechen example” and put enough pressure on the Bosnian-Serbs so that they act with decency and restraint against their former enemies.

    Hahahaha….hahahaha…..oh….my God…….hahahaha….

    What a crackup.

    Considering that there is, alas, an undeniable core of truth in the accusation that the Bosnian-Serbs did commit atrocities against civilians during during the war, even if not anywhere near the numbers claimed by the AngloZionist propaganda, my feeling is that the Bosnian-Serbs will act with restraint and in a honorable way.

    No, mate…doesn’t work that way I am afraid.

    There are a …couple…of questions worth discussing here a bit more.
    The very questions, IMHO, why Mladic and Praljak sentencing was timed as it was.

    If the iron grip of The Empire relaxes enough for Serbs to go for Kosovo, why would Croats and Serbs want to stay in Bosnia where Muslims are the dominant group?
    Why Serbs (Republika Srpska) wouldn’t want to join Serbia proper?
    Furthermore, and most likely more important here, why would Croats in Herzeg-Bosna want to stay in Bosnia as the smallest entity and not join Croatia proper?

    And, then, my friend, we are on the square 1 from 1992.
    Think about that a bit. Just a bit.

    THAT would, among other things, definitely affect, in some way, Serbian effort in Kosovo you describe in further text.

    Bottom line, you underestimate complexities of Balkans and, even without superpowers, some other players in that mess there.
    Dangerously underestimate.

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    • Replies: @Verami
    "Well…my friend, the Serb movement in Bosnia in the latest round, at its heart, was Chetnik movement; the guys who sided with Germans in WW2. How did you miss that element here? How about…..”Serbonazis”, perhaps?"


    Do you mean the Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailovic who was posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit by US President Harry S. Truman in 1948?

    The Chetnik leader that the Germans offered 100,000 gold marks reward for, dead or alive?

    The same Chetniks who rescued and sheltered some 500 American airmen until they could be airlifted to safety?
    https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-500-Untold-Greatest-Mission/dp/0451224957


    Draza Mihailovic's daughter was invited to the US to receive the Legion of Merit award on his behalf in 2005.

    Fifty seven years after 1948 and the US government still believed that Mihailovic was worthy of the award.
    One would think that if there were any evidence to the contrary 57 years would be enough time to find it.


    "LEGION OF MERIT - CHIEF COMMANDER: General Dragoljub Mihailovich distinguished himself in an outstanding manner as Commander-in-Chief of the Yugoslavian Army Forces and later as Minister of War by Organizing and leading important resistance forces against the enemy which occupied Yugoslavia, from December 1941 to December 1944. Through the undaunted efforts of his troops, many United States airmen were rescued and returned safely to friendly control. General Mihailovich and his forces, although lacking adequate supplies, and fighting under extreme hardships, contributed materially to the Allied cause, and were instrumental in obtaining a final Allied victory."

    - Harry S. Truman, March 29, 1948.


    The Legion of Merit (LOM) is a military award of the United States Armed Forces that is given for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements. The decoration is issued to members of the seven uniformed services of the United States as well as to military and political figures of foreign governments.

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  5. Janus says:

    And take 2 million Albanians with that worthless land? By the look of things…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Serbia#Ethnic_groups

    … Serbs only make 83% in Serbia of today’s borders. Taking in 2 million Albanians would make Serbs ethnic minority in Serbia in how much time? 50 years? Less? If the Kosovo by itself is any example, that’s exactly how long it would take.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo#1961_census

    In 1961 Albanians made 67%, Serbs 23%. By the turn of this century Serbs were less than 9%. By comparison at the turn of 20th century population of Serbs and Albanians was equal 45%-45%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Albanians#Demographics

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bartolo
    Exactly. Demography is the key. But The Saker is a typical boomer and thinks it´s a small detail. It beggars belief.
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  6. “… show outrage when outrage is warranted ….”

    Nowadays outrage is only allowed for the Empire’s pet causes, like gender-neutral toilets or the right for gender reassignment surgery at the taxpayers’ expense, or whatever hate-on fills the MSM this week.

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  7. BoBa says:

    Hello Saker,

    Thank you for accurate analysis.
    Being a Serb myself i fully agree with the facts you have given in short and concise story.
    It makes me sick this days to read zionist propaganda, watch (their) media here in Serbia.

    Unfortunately we still do not have streets named after numerous victims of NATO dirty campaign in Bosnia and Serbia. Not to count increased cancer rate which happened after the bombing.
    So far victors are writing the history one day in distant future or sooner people will know what words:
    Free army, Democratic army, Liberation army/movement...etc” means exactly:
    Pure evil gang of thugs or “Society leftovers” – no one wants them and they are us/europe/israel/nato best export this days.

    Old proverb say “What goes around it comes around” – One day this Free/Democratic/Freedom Liberators will return to their “Democratic” countries and start selling drugs and do nasty things in their NATO society – it would not make me happy but relieved that they are left for good “and scum has come back home to place where it belongs “.

    BoBa

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hood Canal Gardner
    BoBa .. and Nov-Dec 1991 Vukovar-Ovčara is just another Ustashi Croatian whore's dream i guess.
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  8. @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    To The Saker Serbs are the good guys and Muslims the bad guys.

    To Eric Margolis Muslims are the angels and Serbs the demons.

    Who really is right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Who was it that said, "Kill them all and let God sort them out?"
    , @Bartolo
    God, you know nothing at all about The Saker. He bends over backwards to please Muslims and get them to be friends with him. This is one of the very few instances in which he has said something bad about them. Mostly, he attacks those who criticize Muslims.
    , @pyrrhus
    That's an easy one....Margolis should stick to automobiles...
    , @Issac
    I think the appropriate Saker narrative is "every one of our subordina- I mean, wonderful family members, would get along without those dastardly americans and zionists." That, and the last two words would be scrubbed from the Russian version. When you distill the Saker down, it's simply progressive madlibs. Replace designated right-wing bogeyman with "anglo-zionist," and voila.
    , @Antiwar7
    Eric Margolis' mother is Albanian. That says it all.

    There are three sets of opinions about the Balkans:

    1) Don't know, don't care (the majority).
    2) Have personal or family ties to one of the factions, and are accordingly biased (the vast majority of the remainder).
    3) Knowledgeable and balanced (almost as rare as a unicorn). I'd put Diana Johnstone in this category.

    Most people in category 2) view anyone in 3) as another 2) (and themselves as a 3).

    Margolis is a 2. The Saker is closer to 3 because he saw all those UNPROFOR (UN military) reports. UN civilian staff there were typically 2, and the UN military typically 3.
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  9. “In a world ruled and even defined by hypocrisy, betrayal, cowardice and, above all, lies, Kosovo cannot be liberated. I would say that we, all of us, won’t *deserve* a free Kosovo as long as we allow evil to rule the world as it does today. But I also know that lies, or even death, cannot defeat the Truth and that Kosovo shall be liberated.” — Saler

    In the above passage, could we tweak “Find” function so that wherever ‘Kosovo’ appears, ‘America’ is substituted? Would that make sense?

    It would make sense to me, but I am an octogenarian. Would it make sense to ‘born in USA’ Americans younger than 80? Or could it make sense not necessarily on the basis of birthplace but on the basis of spiritual insight (‘the Truth’) acquired somehow by an American like Linh Dinh — given Linh Dinh’s considerable years of residency here in his adopted homeland since a young age, high IQ and awareness, Christian sensibility, and, his origin in a defining flashpoint of the American ‘Empire’?

    Oh, I know, we can’t afford such thoughts, because they might be taken as undermining a strong stance for a sane immigration policy, such as that promoted by the immigrant Derbyshire — whose immigration policy I endorse.

    Well, cuck me running!

    Read More
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  10. mikkkkas says:
    @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/
    Read More
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  11. Bartolo says:

    I have a great deal of sympathy for Kosovo. I attended a speech by Nikola Mirkovic, bought and read his book (“Le martyre du Kosovo”) and I feel strongly about the horrible treatment inflicted on Serbians.

    But The Saker, brilliant and insightful as he is in many, many respects, displays the hallmark boomer stupidity when it comes to demographics. Kosovo´s being recovered is wishful thinking, because it´s 95% Albanian (and 4% Serbian). Recovering the territory to rule over a very different, profoundly hostile people living in it is worse than pointless, it would mean self-inflicted pain and problems.

    Even if a peaceful “ethnic cleansing” were possible (hint: it is not), Serbia´s demography is very weak. Who would they repopulate the territory with? Syrian “refugees” on their way to Germany through the Balkan route? Come on…

    Kosovo is lost forever. And the lesson it holds for others is: don´t become a minority in your own country, especially when the newcomer is hostile (and everyone else will support them).

    Oh, and it seems they are totally cucked: media in the Empire´s hands, lesbian prime minister, playing footsie with the EU… It´s over, Saker. Take the black pill.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Why would the Serbs be limited to peaceful measures against the albanian kosovars? Why should they be?

    Answer is, Serbs, like all white European peoples and close allies of our civilization, need to have way more children and do whatever is necessary to get the land and resources back. To Hell with the Albanians. Literally.
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  12. @Alias Anonymous
    To The Saker Serbs are the good guys and Muslims the bad guys.

    To Eric Margolis Muslims are the angels and Serbs the demons.

    Who really is right?

    Who was it that said, “Kill them all and let God sort them out?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    You do realise that kind of applies to you too, right?

    The "sorting" your kind is destined for... time to piss in your pants man!
    , @Whoriskey
    I believe that dictum belongs to Simon de Montfort. Say what you like about him - he was effective in suppressing the Albigensian heresy
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  13. Bartolo says:
    @Alias Anonymous
    To The Saker Serbs are the good guys and Muslims the bad guys.

    To Eric Margolis Muslims are the angels and Serbs the demons.

    Who really is right?

    God, you know nothing at all about The Saker. He bends over backwards to please Muslims and get them to be friends with him. This is one of the very few instances in which he has said something bad about them. Mostly, he attacks those who criticize Muslims.

    Read More
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  14. Bartolo says:
    @Janus
    And take 2 million Albanians with that worthless land? By the look of things...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Serbia#Ethnic_groups

    ... Serbs only make 83% in Serbia of today's borders. Taking in 2 million Albanians would make Serbs ethnic minority in Serbia in how much time? 50 years? Less? If the Kosovo by itself is any example, that's exactly how long it would take.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo#1961_census

    In 1961 Albanians made 67%, Serbs 23%. By the turn of this century Serbs were less than 9%. By comparison at the turn of 20th century population of Serbs and Albanians was equal 45%-45%.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Albanians#Demographics

    Exactly. Demography is the key. But The Saker is a typical boomer and thinks it´s a small detail. It beggars belief.

    Read More
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  15. Tom57 says:

    Unfortunately the Saker gets a few things wrong. First what he gets right: yes indeed the war in 1999 was illegal and Milosevic badly tricked. But no, no pendulum will swing back. Kosovo was 60% Albanian already in the Fifties and 80% in 1989 when the Serbs took away the autonomy of Kosovo.
    Which started first the peaceful protest and then the guerilla activities of the Albanian majority.

    You might have as many Serbian churches and moasteries as you like. The vast majority of the population is Albanian. Furthermore Albanians still have a healthy birth rate whereas Serbians just barely manage to keep their numbers. Serbia (just like Russia) is a country where there is no appetite for large scale bloodletting anymore. Families are small and more than 50% live in cities. Young men are as smart phone and porn addicted as anywhere else in the West. In Kosovo young men have to spend their time on the streets as there is no place in the appartments and houses for them.
    In a guerilla war Serbia wouldn´t have a chance. She would never be able to subdue Kosovo as long as Albanians are the majority. It would be another story if Serbia had modern weapons and Albanians only hunting rifles. Then Serbia could opt for large scale ethnic cleansing. Either decimate or expell all Albanians from Kosovo. But that would draw in all neighbours who surely wouldn´t want the inevitable destabilisation of the whole region. In reality things are over.
    It is an altogether different matter with the Kraina. Here Croats were never more than 10% of the population and would have never won without Western backing and ethnic cleansing. But in a rational world Serbs should be able to come back. They lived in a compact area and were no more than ten percent of the overall population of Croatia. In fact it is well passed time to reach an agreement. The EU should have never have let Croatia in without having solved the problem of the Kraina.
    Finally about Bosnia: my wife happens to be a Serb from Banja Luka in Bosnia. Whatever fantasies Serbs in Belgrade might entertain it is abundandly clear to anybody that the Muslims lost the war and were ethnically cleansed from a lot of their former territory. Witness Banja Luka. If not for Western intervention there would be no more Muslims in Bosnia now. Croats and Serbs would have either killed, expelled or forcefully converted all of them.
    Therefore the Muslims are pining for revenge. To this day. Serbs and Croats in Bosnia know this very well and therefore have a much better relationship with each other than with the Muslims. Trust my words: go into any pub or cafe in Mostar or Banja Luka and you will find there Croats and Serbs sitting quite peacefully together. But never any Muslims.
    Except for two or three centuries in the middle ages the Balkans have always been a part of various empires. Roman, Byzantine, Turkish, Holy Roman Empire. These empires including the Turkish empire were much more tolerant that the mini nation states that succeeded them. One feels reminded of the Caucasus where more sober minds realize that the power vacuum left after the demise of the USSR was good for no one. There will only be peace if an outside authority comes in and tells everybody to shut up..One has to do what Tito did: kill all these Nationalists like so many rabid dogs. Otherwise there never will be peace. People of all nationalities do realize that. Go to any pub, cafe in any area in Bosnia (no matter whether Croatian, Serbian aor Muslim) and chances are you will find a picture of Tito. Or ask anybody in Bosnia who was the best politician ever: Tito.

    Really the Saker shouldn´t write about things of which he hasn´t a clue.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    A good post.
    Actually, a surprisingly good post for this type of site. Probably helps a lot when a wife is from "over there":).

    A couple of comments if I may.

    Re Krajina.
    Saker was/is thinking about armed return and I think that's a VERY bad idea.
    You, I guess, are thinking about peaceful return under international supervision.
    Things are a bit more....complicated...........there.
    That entity (Serb Krajina) was '91-95 actually four distinctive regions. Two of them "poor" and two "rich". If you are talking about returning to two "rich" regions, agree. But, Serbs, as far as I know, aren't really keen, after living "abroad", to return there anymore.
    And, well, people who live there now are mostly Croat refugees ethnically cleansed from Bosnia (or even some Catholics from Kosovo). Mixing again with large number of Serbs, well.....not a good mix I am afraid.

    ...it is abundandly clear to anybody that the Muslims lost the war and were ethnically cleansed from a lot of their former territory. Witness Banja Luka. If not for Western intervention there would be no more Muslims in Bosnia now. Croats and Serbs would have either killed, expelled or forcefully converted all of them.
    Therefore the Muslims are pining for revenge.
     
    Absolutely agree.

    To this day. Serbs and Croats in Bosnia know this very well and therefore have a much better relationship with each other than with the Muslims. Trust my words: go into any pub or cafe in Mostar or Banja Luka and you will find there Croats and Serbs sitting quite peacefully together.
     
    Well....not quite I am afraid. Not at all.
    The MAIN opponent, in Balkans, for Croat nationalists, are Serbs.
    I ....guess......that the main opponent for Serb nationalists are Albanians and Muslims, in that order.
    So, in a case of a clash there, I am absolutely positive that choosing/maintaining alliances/taking on opponents would be a bit more complicated than you suggest.
    If I recollect properly Croats and Muslims were together against Serbs from 1992 to 1993 and again in 1994-1995. THAT is, IMHO, very important to understand in this picture.

    There will only be peace if an outside authority comes in and tells everybody to shut up
     
    Hahaha..........a good one.
    The CONUNDRUM of Balkans.
    No "outside authority"--->BANG.
    "Outside authority"--->oppression, no democracy, no human rights etc...etc.
    What to do?

    One has to do what Tito did: kill all these Nationalists like so many rabid dogs.
     
    Well....didn't work well, did it?
    More you kill them more, somehow, they pop up when an opportunity arises.
    The CONUNDRUM again.

    Otherwise there never will be peace.
     
    I...feel....you are getting somewhere here.

    People of all nationalities do realize that. Go to any pub, cafe in any area in Bosnia (no matter whether Croatian, Serbian aor Muslim) and chances are you will find a picture of Tito.
     
    You're sure about those pictures in "Herzeg-Bosna"?

    Really the Saker shouldn´t write about things of which he hasn´t a clue.
     
    Agree.
    , @Jim
    Yugoslavia was always a pretend country. It had many different ethnicities but one ethnicity it lacked - it didn't have any Yugoslavs. Such a conglomeration may be held together by force as Tito held Yugoslavia together for a while. But such polities are fundamentally unstable and eventually disintegrate violently.
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  16. pyrrhus says:
    @Alias Anonymous
    To The Saker Serbs are the good guys and Muslims the bad guys.

    To Eric Margolis Muslims are the angels and Serbs the demons.

    Who really is right?

    That’s an easy one….Margolis should stick to automobiles…

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  17. I take serious issue with this otherwise fine article-the statement that not one lawyer realised the international order was collapsing. Those of us on the International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic knew it-myself, Ramsey Clark, David Jacobs, Michael Mandel, Alex Mezyaev, and others (some of us laid war crimes charges against NATO for their attack on Yugoslavia) knew it and said so loudly and insistently and still say so. Here is my article on the Mladic “judgement” where I say so again:

    https://journal-neo.org/2017/11/28/the-mladic-case-a-stain-on-civilization/

    Christopher Black,
    Chair, Legal Committee
    International Committee for the Defence of Slobodan Milosevic

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    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    Thank you for fighting the good fight, despite its tremendous unpopularity.

    At the time, everyone "knew" the Serbs were Nazis, just as later everyone "knew" there were WMD in Iraq and now everyone "knows" the Russians hacked the US election.
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  18. Yee says:

    Europe’s trend is breaking into more and more small pieces, since Roman Empire… I believe there’d be some more in the future, although might not be in our life time.

    Same for the USA, because they’re culturally European.

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  19. Need some good music to go with this thread. Orchestra version.

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  20. Tsigantes says:

    Actually: Greece stuck its neck out throughout on behalf of the Serbs, alone in Europe. Go and check.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    Yes, and that was courageous. But as members of NATO, they could have theoretically blocked all their out-of-area operations. In practice, though, I'm sure they have as much "freedom" in NATO as Trump has to make friends with Russia.
    , @Alden
    Good for the Greeks
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  21. aloisius says:

    When it comes to ex-Yugoslavia, most authors and commentators just try to fit those events into their global agenda and interpret Yugoslav wars through that lens. So if someone sees “Anglo-Zionist empire” as their enemy, whoever was on the opposite side of them was the good guy. Then you´ll have people who are reflexively anti-muslim, who will decide whoever was against Muslims was also the good guy. And also, whoever the MSM was supporting had to be the bad guy. Those attitudes just don´t work very well when trying to explain what happened there.

    I think the first thing to do is to stop trying to fit those wars into any particular overarching global narrative. This was an indigenously motivated conflict. Idealizing Serbs as brave underdog anti-empire fighters is even more ridiculous than demonizing them. They had a huge advantage in the beginning of the war in terms of military strength and used that position of strength to take control of 30% of Croatia and 70% of Bosnia. In doing so, they very thoroughly ethnically cleansed those areas, which weren´t even 50% ethnically Serbian before the war and committed numerous atrocities against Croats and especially against Bosnian Muslims. And this is not about Srebrenica at all, this is about what happened in every town and village Serbian forces captured in Croatia in ´91 and in Bosnia in 92.

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    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @Whoriskey
    Good point, alas
    , @Antiwar7
    At the beginning of the Bosnian war, the Bosnian Serbs had an advantage in weapons, but not in numbers of soldiers. And at the very start, the regular Croatian Army entered, well-armed "secretly" by Germany and others.

    "Every village"? You know that's a lie. And are you contrasting that with the "friendly" actions of the Croat and Muslim forces?
    https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2013/09/14/medak_pocket_canadas_forgotten_battle.html
    When the Canadian UN forces moved in after the Croats retreated, they "found only destroyed buildings and tortured bodies."

    And don't forget the "good-guy" Muslims: (one example of many):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Neretva_%2793
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  22. Brabantian says: • Website

    Showing what an oily and dishonest little CIA toad he is, Andrei ‘The Saker’ Raevsky peppers his article above with links to the world’s biggest Zionist hasbara disinformation site, the CIA’s Wikipedia … and this despite Raevsky-Saker’s claim to be the big fighter against ‘Anglo-Zionism’

    As Raevsky-Saker well knows, Wikipedia is run by an ex-pornographer, Jimmy Jimbo Wales, who goes to intimate birthday parties of Presidents of Israel. True to his porno roots, Wales is known in EU government reports for letting elite-connected paedophiles run fake biographies themselves on the Wiki website, so they can more easily make a few more ‘young friends’. In fact the whole reason Wikipedia is ‘anonymous’, is to provide cover for CIA assets, Mossad assets, and paedophiles who publish there … & who block IP addresses of critics who try to ‘edit’ and put the truth on Wiki.

    Raevsky-Saker even turns out to be a Florida near-neighbour of Wikipedia’s porno guy Wales, too … rather like Alex Jones of Infowars being down the street from the CIA’s Stratfor in Austin, Texas … Saker’s promotion & marketing memes quite duplicate the CIA-Wikimedia ones, down to similar phrasing … Saker has the same mysterious Wiki-type translation teams, somehow eager to render Saker’s dubious jottings into 5 languages, too

    Raevsky-Saker the Faker has admitted he was ‘formerly’ an intel agent … if you believe the ‘former’ part Ha! … Saker spins a tale he was fired from the spy biz for being a whistle-blower of some kind, if you care to believe that. In fact Raevsky-Saker remains an intel asset, posing as a ‘dissident’ while trying to herd dissident sheeple toward the Muslim agenda, whilst also herding Putin fan-boys into NWO service.

    With all his massive funding and experience and knowledge of the Russian influence sphere, Raevsky-Saker somehow can’t give us any references better than Tel-Aviv-patrolled Wikipedia, where 10 seconds after you post a link, the CIA & Mossad can change the text to make it even more bent to their Zionist propaganda? Saker is perhaps right now having a drink in Florida with his porno-and-paedo-sponsor friend and neighbour Wiki Jimbo Wales, laughing about how they get all the rubes to ‘donate’ to their two propaganda websites.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Very interesting.
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  23. peterAUS says:
    @Tom57
    Unfortunately the Saker gets a few things wrong. First what he gets right: yes indeed the war in 1999 was illegal and Milosevic badly tricked. But no, no pendulum will swing back. Kosovo was 60% Albanian already in the Fifties and 80% in 1989 when the Serbs took away the autonomy of Kosovo.
    Which started first the peaceful protest and then the guerilla activities of the Albanian majority.

    You might have as many Serbian churches and moasteries as you like. The vast majority of the population is Albanian. Furthermore Albanians still have a healthy birth rate whereas Serbians just barely manage to keep their numbers. Serbia (just like Russia) is a country where there is no appetite for large scale bloodletting anymore. Families are small and more than 50% live in cities. Young men are as smart phone and porn addicted as anywhere else in the West. In Kosovo young men have to spend their time on the streets as there is no place in the appartments and houses for them.
    In a guerilla war Serbia wouldn´t have a chance. She would never be able to subdue Kosovo as long as Albanians are the majority. It would be another story if Serbia had modern weapons and Albanians only hunting rifles. Then Serbia could opt for large scale ethnic cleansing. Either decimate or expell all Albanians from Kosovo. But that would draw in all neighbours who surely wouldn´t want the inevitable destabilisation of the whole region. In reality things are over.
    It is an altogether different matter with the Kraina. Here Croats were never more than 10% of the population and would have never won without Western backing and ethnic cleansing. But in a rational world Serbs should be able to come back. They lived in a compact area and were no more than ten percent of the overall population of Croatia. In fact it is well passed time to reach an agreement. The EU should have never have let Croatia in without having solved the problem of the Kraina.
    Finally about Bosnia: my wife happens to be a Serb from Banja Luka in Bosnia. Whatever fantasies Serbs in Belgrade might entertain it is abundandly clear to anybody that the Muslims lost the war and were ethnically cleansed from a lot of their former territory. Witness Banja Luka. If not for Western intervention there would be no more Muslims in Bosnia now. Croats and Serbs would have either killed, expelled or forcefully converted all of them.
    Therefore the Muslims are pining for revenge. To this day. Serbs and Croats in Bosnia know this very well and therefore have a much better relationship with each other than with the Muslims. Trust my words: go into any pub or cafe in Mostar or Banja Luka and you will find there Croats and Serbs sitting quite peacefully together. But never any Muslims.
    Except for two or three centuries in the middle ages the Balkans have always been a part of various empires. Roman, Byzantine, Turkish, Holy Roman Empire. These empires including the Turkish empire were much more tolerant that the mini nation states that succeeded them. One feels reminded of the Caucasus where more sober minds realize that the power vacuum left after the demise of the USSR was good for no one. There will only be peace if an outside authority comes in and tells everybody to shut up..One has to do what Tito did: kill all these Nationalists like so many rabid dogs. Otherwise there never will be peace. People of all nationalities do realize that. Go to any pub, cafe in any area in Bosnia (no matter whether Croatian, Serbian aor Muslim) and chances are you will find a picture of Tito. Or ask anybody in Bosnia who was the best politician ever: Tito.

    Really the Saker shouldn´t write about things of which he hasn´t a clue.

    A good post.
    Actually, a surprisingly good post for this type of site. Probably helps a lot when a wife is from “over there”:).

    A couple of comments if I may.

    Re Krajina.
    Saker was/is thinking about armed return and I think that’s a VERY bad idea.
    You, I guess, are thinking about peaceful return under international supervision.
    Things are a bit more….complicated………..there.
    That entity (Serb Krajina) was ’91-95 actually four distinctive regions. Two of them “poor” and two “rich”. If you are talking about returning to two “rich” regions, agree. But, Serbs, as far as I know, aren’t really keen, after living “abroad”, to return there anymore.
    And, well, people who live there now are mostly Croat refugees ethnically cleansed from Bosnia (or even some Catholics from Kosovo). Mixing again with large number of Serbs, well…..not a good mix I am afraid.

    …it is abundandly clear to anybody that the Muslims lost the war and were ethnically cleansed from a lot of their former territory. Witness Banja Luka. If not for Western intervention there would be no more Muslims in Bosnia now. Croats and Serbs would have either killed, expelled or forcefully converted all of them.
    Therefore the Muslims are pining for revenge.

    Absolutely agree.

    To this day. Serbs and Croats in Bosnia know this very well and therefore have a much better relationship with each other than with the Muslims. Trust my words: go into any pub or cafe in Mostar or Banja Luka and you will find there Croats and Serbs sitting quite peacefully together.

    Well….not quite I am afraid. Not at all.
    The MAIN opponent, in Balkans, for Croat nationalists, are Serbs.
    I ….guess……that the main opponent for Serb nationalists are Albanians and Muslims, in that order.
    So, in a case of a clash there, I am absolutely positive that choosing/maintaining alliances/taking on opponents would be a bit more complicated than you suggest.
    If I recollect properly Croats and Muslims were together against Serbs from 1992 to 1993 and again in 1994-1995. THAT is, IMHO, very important to understand in this picture.

    There will only be peace if an outside authority comes in and tells everybody to shut up

    Hahaha……….a good one.
    The CONUNDRUM of Balkans.
    No “outside authority”—>BANG.
    “Outside authority”—>oppression, no democracy, no human rights etc…etc.
    What to do?

    One has to do what Tito did: kill all these Nationalists like so many rabid dogs.

    Well….didn’t work well, did it?
    More you kill them more, somehow, they pop up when an opportunity arises.
    The CONUNDRUM again.

    Otherwise there never will be peace.

    I…feel….you are getting somewhere here.

    People of all nationalities do realize that. Go to any pub, cafe in any area in Bosnia (no matter whether Croatian, Serbian aor Muslim) and chances are you will find a picture of Tito.

    You’re sure about those pictures in “Herzeg-Bosna”?

    Really the Saker shouldn´t write about things of which he hasn´t a clue.

    Agree.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom57
    I was only talking about Bosnia and Serbs, Croats and Muslims there. Generally speaking you are right regarding Croats and Serbs. But please remember: the perspective in Bosnia is quite different. You also got the conundrum facing the Balkans quite right: dictatorship vs rabid Nationalism. I tend to go with the dictatorship. Especially considering that in mountain regions such as Bosnia any dictatorship tends to be much less effective that in more easily controllable places. By the way I am an old rock n´roller.
    Bang heads in all peace and call each other Tshetnik, Ustasha and Shiptar and get drunk together. Happened in Berlin in the Nineties among deserters of all nationalities. Been there and smelled the dead bodies floating in the Drina. Not for me nationalism. Not even of the naive kind of the Saker.
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  24. m___ says:

    The nipple to the left of Kosovo, right under it, in the hollow with the Albanian border, a “town” called Plav, territory of Montenegro. In the midst of Albanian borderlands, etnic Albanians, “Chetnic” Serbs sympathies, a majority of muslims, most very uninterested, as their fathers were under communism, some pretending and unable to proof, a “since always” Montenegrin descend from the area of Cetinje. A growing group of Saudi and Turk oriented youngsters, adhering to a stricter form of islam, and somehow confirmed by economic incentives.

    A town that sends of it’s youngsters mechanically to be exploited as cheap labour to the US and Western Europe, to see them return …to die of old age after a life of cheap labour is the dominant streak. Girls flirting with Brooklyn New York and Dusseldorf second generation villagers on Pentagram and Feciesbook and consorts, to fish for a life into consumer paradise, as imprinted by TV and the internet. Above any identity rides the plasticky ways of consumerism, all the same, to all of every mention.

    Our take, give or take, the philosophical, cognitive, historical groundedness, religious prowess, is blandly indistinct. There is no master plan in all of this amalgam of natives, semi natives. Most locals converted trice over the course of five generations, the latest philosophy of interest, Wahabi – Saoudi Islamism for some of the least economically viable population groups. Calling oneself of Bosnian (Muslim of Bosnian roots), is popular in part of what we would call the middle class.

    Albanian nationalism, since sponsored by the EU and the US west, is a minority venue, but popular on the fringe. Mostly with reason, because looking at the geography of the land, and the proveable descend over ages of most natives being of Illirian descend.

    The red thread in all this: low cognitive resonance, short term opportunism, nothing to cement in any way a lasting identity. It is the way of the world. The communistic one single way capitalism of consumer exploitation, by more of a lack of biosphere resources, by reducing portions of increasingly lower quality to not suffocate in a bell of toxicity.

    All this to say, then not from the heartland(Bosnia) but rather close, in the triangle of Montenegro, Kosovo and Albanian nation states, from the “alpine” hills and sandstone crests of Procletije, that there is probably less weight to be pulled by ethnic group, religious adherence, national identities, in occurrence Serb then proponed by the author. Bland and superficial homogeneously disinteresting more then a measuring scale between players of no importance. All adhere to the underclass as far as economics and world dominance. All see themselves as the up and coming millionaires and success stories individually.

    If there is a single nomer to history, it is a brute force clash repetitively between high level, limited context philosophies, little theoretical grounding, a bended line to nowhere.

    Human nature is at cause, if then one needs to vouch for a dominating corrupter, it is our sorry West, that affects every corner of the earth, the whole of the biosphere, promoting a way of life that is turning mass human, into rats and roaches at wish. Exploited intentionally, and given the opportunity, by setting them up against one another. There is seemingly exponentiality to it.

    Again to the author, Western Europe will crack, will morph in scurry ways, but the global driver to ignomy is embedded to all of us. The algorithm of choice is rather an algorith of not able to do better.

    Case rested, Serb of any kind, Japanese, there is a large factor of more of the same. More then any time in the past individual initiatives that rely on interrelation with AI, genetic comprehension and manipulation on the individual level are the only way out. There is no future in numbers and associations in groups of any kind. Sociology, economics, war, obsolete behaviourism. That is where neo-liberalism and nationalism come together, not in the way of obtention but in the identical drivers of base individual short-term greed.

    Again do not count on any existing group to build alternative homogeneous alternatives to a sustainable future.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Thoughtful post.

    Especially, I guess

    the global driver to ignominy is embedded to all of us. The algorithm of choice is rather an algorithm of not able to do better
     

    identical drivers of base individual short-term greed.
     

    More then any time in the past individual initiatives that rely on interrelation with AI, genetic comprehension and manipulation on the individual level are the only way out.
     
    Create a better man, a?
    HUGE topic.
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  25. aloisius says:

    Tito is completely irrelevant/hated among both Serbs and Croats in Bosnia and only a small number of Muslims (less than 10%) hold him in high regard. Nobody keeps his pictures in pubs. And you also won´t see many Serbs and Croats sitting together in cafes in Mostar and Banja Luka, simply because there are fewer than 1% Croats in Banja Luka and maybe 2-3% Serbs in Mostar, mostly old people.

    As far as Muslims losing the war, well they have gained a few percentage points in Bosnia’s population compared to 1991. Overall, it´s a race to the bottom, with all 3 groups having fertility rates below 1.5 (Muslims have the lowest, they´re the most urbanized) and high desire to emigrate, as the economy is the worst in Europe.

    Regarding Croatian nationalism, the conflict at the moment is much stronger with Muslims. There pretty much no open questions left with Serbs, but Croats in Bosnia are stuck with Muslims on 51% of the country which Muslims are trying to dominate and marginalize Croats. It´s an inherently unstable situation.

    Read More
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  26. peterAUS says:
    @m___
    The nipple to the left of Kosovo, right under it, in the hollow with the Albanian border, a "town" called Plav, territory of Montenegro. In the midst of Albanian borderlands, etnic Albanians, "Chetnic" Serbs sympathies, a majority of muslims, most very uninterested, as their fathers were under communism, some pretending and unable to proof, a "since always" Montenegrin descend from the area of Cetinje. A growing group of Saudi and Turk oriented youngsters, adhering to a stricter form of islam, and somehow confirmed by economic incentives.

    A town that sends of it's youngsters mechanically to be exploited as cheap labour to the US and Western Europe, to see them return ...to die of old age after a life of cheap labour is the dominant streak. Girls flirting with Brooklyn New York and Dusseldorf second generation villagers on Pentagram and Feciesbook and consorts, to fish for a life into consumer paradise, as imprinted by TV and the internet. Above any identity rides the plasticky ways of consumerism, all the same, to all of every mention.

    Our take, give or take, the philosophical, cognitive, historical groundedness, religious prowess, is blandly indistinct. There is no master plan in all of this amalgam of natives, semi natives. Most locals converted trice over the course of five generations, the latest philosophy of interest, Wahabi - Saoudi Islamism for some of the least economically viable population groups. Calling oneself of Bosnian (Muslim of Bosnian roots), is popular in part of what we would call the middle class.

    Albanian nationalism, since sponsored by the EU and the US west, is a minority venue, but popular on the fringe. Mostly with reason, because looking at the geography of the land, and the proveable descend over ages of most natives being of Illirian descend.

    The red thread in all this: low cognitive resonance, short term opportunism, nothing to cement in any way a lasting identity. It is the way of the world. The communistic one single way capitalism of consumer exploitation, by more of a lack of biosphere resources, by reducing portions of increasingly lower quality to not suffocate in a bell of toxicity.

    All this to say, then not from the heartland(Bosnia) but rather close, in the triangle of Montenegro, Kosovo and Albanian nation states, from the "alpine" hills and sandstone crests of Procletije, that there is probably less weight to be pulled by ethnic group, religious adherence, national identities, in occurrence Serb then proponed by the author. Bland and superficial homogeneously disinteresting more then a measuring scale between players of no importance. All adhere to the underclass as far as economics and world dominance. All see themselves as the up and coming millionaires and success stories individually.

    If there is a single nomer to history, it is a brute force clash repetitively between high level, limited context philosophies, little theoretical grounding, a bended line to nowhere.

    Human nature is at cause, if then one needs to vouch for a dominating corrupter, it is our sorry West, that affects every corner of the earth, the whole of the biosphere, promoting a way of life that is turning mass human, into rats and roaches at wish. Exploited intentionally, and given the opportunity, by setting them up against one another. There is seemingly exponentiality to it.

    Again to the author, Western Europe will crack, will morph in scurry ways, but the global driver to ignomy is embedded to all of us. The algorithm of choice is rather an algorith of not able to do better.

    Case rested, Serb of any kind, Japanese, there is a large factor of more of the same. More then any time in the past individual initiatives that rely on interrelation with AI, genetic comprehension and manipulation on the individual level are the only way out. There is no future in numbers and associations in groups of any kind. Sociology, economics, war, obsolete behaviourism. That is where neo-liberalism and nationalism come together, not in the way of obtention but in the identical drivers of base individual short-term greed.

    Again do not count on any existing group to build alternative homogeneous alternatives to a sustainable future.

    Thoughtful post.

    Especially, I guess

    the global driver to ignominy is embedded to all of us. The algorithm of choice is rather an algorithm of not able to do better

    identical drivers of base individual short-term greed.

    More then any time in the past individual initiatives that rely on interrelation with AI, genetic comprehension and manipulation on the individual level are the only way out.

    Create a better man, a?
    HUGE topic.

    Read More
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  27. Cyrano says:

    One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power.

    Saker, you should know better than this. Bombing of Yugoslavia DID play a crucial role in bringing Putin to power. That’s almost an indisputable fact. If the neocons are not pleased with Putin being a leader in Russia today – they should know who do they have to blame for that.

    In a little bit of convoluted logic, the bombing of Yugoslavia saved Russia. Can you imagine what few more years in power of that buffoon Yeltsin could have done to Russia?

    The aggression against Yugoslavia was a wake-up call for all Russians. It showed them that west is an enemy and that no deals that would benefit Russia are possible with the west.

    The bombing of Yugoslavia is a little bit of history repeating. In the spring of 1941, the Serbs took to the streets of Belgrade and ripped apart the unpopular pact with Nazi Germany – forcing Germany to attack their former “ally” Yugoslavia. The Serbs are still proud of this. They believe that the attack on Yugoslavia in 1941 saved the USSR. How? Well by delaying the attack on USSR. If the Serbs haven’t forced Nazi Germany to attack them, Germany would have invaded USSR sooner than June 22, maybe as early as late May 1941. If the Germans had couple of extra months of nice weather to play with, the whole war in the east might have turned out differently.

    As I said, history repeating itself. Serbia saving Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are the only one with whom I generally agree.
    Except in 1941 there was no Yugoslavia. Only Greater Serbia.
    Yugoslavia was created after war by Stalin on the request of Tito with representation of Communist parties of different states.

    Concerning comments on this article are almost all totally idiotic.
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  28. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The events in former Yugoslavia were a real eye-opener for many people. PR had already been turned into an entire professional industry in the US and reached it’s full peak in the 90′s where the US engaged in full-spectrum lying 24/7 through it’s megaphones. The supposed concentration camps with the skinny guys behind the barbed wire were a fraud alongside lurid stories of every kind presented as fact. The propaganda machine didn’t miss a trick or overlook any angle. Since most Americans have no idea where these places are it was easy to stampede everyone with this avalanche of lies.
    Divide and conquer, turn the resulting weak states into captive clients sending part of their productivity and resources to the center of the octopus, it’s an old story by now. The US exploited the Muslims as the wedge to demolish Yugoslavia, craftily using the multi-ethnic nature of the country as the soft underbelly. The more popular Muslim was Fikret Abdic, a moderate who believed in national unity but was somehow pushed aside in some murky way by Alija Izetbegovic, a hardline Islamist. Just like everywhere else the US has used Muslim fanatics to further it’s aims such as in the recent Syrian atrocity, using fanatics to demolish a secular state. The Serbs had to capitulate since they had no real anti-aircraft defense against the US/NATO planes that kept ratcheting up their terroristic bombing campaign. They were hitting civilian targets and threatening to destroy everything. The Russians were in a state of weakness under Yeltsin at the time so could not help them. This represents a turning point in many ways however. The rosy view of the US was dissipated and the Russians realized the real nature of the US. Putin was needed to build them back up again for their own protection.

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  29. Bayan says:

    Yugoslavia was an interesting unique country. European but nonaligned; communist but market socialism and worker managed enterprises; multinational and multifaith federation. Problem was federation without democracy is a disaster waiting to happen. In the 1980s when the Yugoslav economy faced problems the relatively prosperous northern members of the federation started gossiping, blaming and insulting the southern members. They seemed to be ignorant that federations are so. Not all regions will be equally prosperous, you got to help each other.

    In mature democracies such sentiments will be aired, debated, and adjustments made here and there. You may even allow members to separate peacefully. Instead things were bottled up in Yugoslavia, and when the gods let accident happen to the USSR; Yugoslavia’s federation exploded. Yugoslavian federation like the USSR lacked democracy and tradition of negotiation among their members. It was top down federation. They opened themselves for external intervention, which by the way was not necessary for the breakups. NATO powers just do know what to do with the power they accumulated overtime. The weak suffer.

    The Saker thinks Serbian nationalism good, Albanian and other nationalisms bad. He has a simplistic criterion: is it good for Russia? I do not know of any nationalism that is always good, or always evil. It depends on the criteria you use. Poor argument if you just say: what is good for Russia is good for the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bayan
    I meant 'NATO powers just do NOT know what to do with the power they accumulated overtime.'
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  30. Hubris. NATO weakens.

    I wrote about all this in 2004:

    Editorial

    While the Bush Administration dances around their lies about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction used to justify the conquest of Iraq, let us recall the Clinton administration lied to justify their conquest of Kosovo in 1999. No mass graves were found, except in places where a few dozen Islamic terrorists, and civilians caught in the crossfire, were killed in firefights with Serbian police. There was no “ethnic cleansing” by the Serbian army, which includes thousands of Muslim soldiers. Reports that civilians were forced to vacate cities by evil Serbian police proved false; they fled because they were terrified as NATO aircraft unleashed hundreds of bombs over a three week period, killing 2000 civilians. This destroyed the Serbian economy and terrorized their government into submission, which resulted in a compromise in which Serbia retained sovereignty over its Kosovo province and agreed to allow NATO peacekeepers to occupy Kosovo on a temporary basis.

    As with the conquest of Iraq, it is uncertain why this conflict arose. Some think it was created by the powerful NATO bureaucracy to justify their post Cold war existence. Defense contractors made handsome profits though supplemental funding while contractors like Halliburton continue to pocket billions of dollars to support the occupation of Kosovo. Others claim it was a public relations gimmick by President Clinton, while a few think more sinister reasons were involved. Here is an excellent update on the present situation:

    THE NATIONAL POST (Canada) | 2004-04-06 |

    We bombed the wrong side?

    Major General Lewis MacKenzie – Armed Forces of Canada (retired)

    Five years ago our television screens were dominated by pictures of Kosovo-Albanian refugees escaping across Kosovo’s borders to the sanctuaries of Macedonia and Albania. Shrill reports indicated that Slobodan Milosevic’s security forces were conducting a campaign of genocide and that at least 100,000 Kosovo-Albanians had been exterminated and buried in mass graves throughout the Serbian province. NATO sprung into action and, in spite of the fact no member nation of the alliance was threatened, commenced bombing not only Kosovo, but the infrastructure and population of Serbia itself — without the authorizing United Nations resolution so revered by Canadian leadership, past and present.

    [MORE]

    Those of us who warned that the West was being sucked in on the side of an extremist, militant, Kosovo-Albanian independence movement were dismissed as appeasers. The fact that the lead organization spearheading the fight for independence, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), was universally designated a terrorist organization and known to be receiving support from Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda was conveniently ignored.

    The recent dearth of news in the North American media regarding the increase in violence in Kosovo compared to the comprehensive coverage in the European press strongly suggests that we Canadians don’t like to admit it when we are wrong. On the contrary, selected news clips on this side of the ocean continue to reinforce the popular spin that those dastardly Serbs are at it again.

    A case in point was the latest crisis that exploded on March 15. The media reported that four Albanian boys had been chased into the river Ibar in Mitrovica by at least two Serbs and a dog (the dog’s ethnic affiliation was not reported). Three of the boys drowned and one escaped to the other side. Immediately, thousands of Albanians mobilized and concentrated in the area of the divided city. Attacks on Serbs took place throughout the province resulting in an estimated 30 killed and 600 wounded. Thirty Serbian Christian Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed, more than 300 homes were burnt to the ground and six Serbian villages cleansed of their occupants. One hundred and fifty international peacekeepers were injured.

    Totally ignored in North America were the numerous statements from impartial sources that said there was no incident between the Serbs, the dog and the Albanian boys. NATO Police spokesman Derek Chappell stated on March 16 that it was “definitely not true” that the boys had been chased into the river by Serbs. Chappell went on to say that the surviving boy had told his parents that they had entered the river alone and that three of his friends had been swept away by the current. Admiral Gregory Johnson, the overall NATO commander, further stated that the ensuing clashes were “orchestrated and well-planned ethnic cleansing” by the Kosovo-Albanians. Those Serbs forced to leave joined the 200,000 who had been cleansed from the province since NATO’s “humanitarian” bombing in 1999. The ‘”cleansees” have become very effective “cleansers.”

    In the same week a number of individuals posing as Serbs ambushed and killed a UN policeman and his local police partner. During the firefight one of them was wounded which caused an immediate switch from Serbian to Albanian as he screamed, “I’ve been hit”! The UN pursued the attackers and tracked them to an Albanian-run farm where they discovered weapons and the wounded Albanian who had died from his wounds. Four Albanians were arrested. Once again, the ambush had been reported in the United States but not the follow-up which clearly indicated yet another orchestrated provocation by the Albanian terrorists.

    Kosovo is administered by the UN, the very organization many Canadians have indicated they would like to see take over from the United States in Iraq. The fact the UN cannot order its civilian employees to go or stay anywhere — they have to volunteer — combined with recent history that saw the UN abandon Iraq after a single brutal attack on their compound in Baghdad and the reality that Kosovo, under the organization’s administration, is a basket case, disqualifies it from consideration for such a role.

    Since the NATO/UN intervention in 1999, Kosovo has become the crime capital of Europe. The sex slave trade is flourishing. The province has become an invaluable transit point for drugs en route to Europe and North America. Ironically, the majority of the drugs come from another state “liberated” by the West, Afghanistan. Members of the demobilized, but not eliminated, KLA are intimately involved in organized crime and the government. The UN police arrest a small percentage of those involved in criminal activities and turn them over to a judiciary with a revolving door that responds to bribes and coercion. The objective of the Albanians is to purge all non-Albanians, including the international community’s representatives, from Kosovo and ultimately link up with mother Albania thereby achieving the goal of “Greater Albania.” The campaign started with their attacks on Serbian security forces in the early 1990s and they were successful in turning Milosevic’s heavy-handed response into worldwide sympathy for their cause. There was no genocide as claimed by the West — the 100,000 allegedly buried in mass graves turned out to be around 2,000, of all ethnic origins, including those killed in combat during the war itself.

    The Kosovo-Albanians have played us like a Stradivarius. We have subsidized and indirectly supported their violent campaign for an ethnically pure and independent Kosovo. We have never blamed them for being the perpetrators of the violence in the early ’90s and we continue to portray them as the designated victim today in spite of evidence to the contrary. When they achieve independence with the help of our tax dollars combined with those of bin Laden and al-Qaeda, just consider the message of encouragement this sends to other terrorist-supported independence movements around the world.

    Funny how we just keep digging the hole deeper!

    Maj-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, now retired, commanded UN troops during the Bosnian civil war of 1992.

    (c) 2004 National Post . All Rights Reserved.

    Serbia is a European democracy which maintains friendly relations with all nations. It delivered Milosevic to the war crimes tribunal in the Hague two years ago, although they are having trouble accumulating evidence that he used excessive force to suppress Islamic terrorists in Kosovo. Fighting had increased in the late 1990s as the CIA shipped arms to the KLA terror group and helped coordinate Iranian weapon shipments to Albania funded in part by Al Qaeda. Deposing Milosevic and turning him over for “war crimes” was a key demand, yet NATO (e.g. the United States) has yet to announce when the temporary NATO peacekeepers will depart.

    Kosovo has been part of Serbia for hundreds of years, and remains part of Serbia as recognized by every nation on Earth, including the United States. NATO and the UN have failed to keep the peace in Kosovo, and lack the resolve to pursue Islamic terrorists and criminal gangs based there. The United States hasn’t the resources to provide security forever, and no European ally is anxious to add troops. The solution is obvious; allow Serbian peacekeepers to return to Serbia’s Kosovo province. They are willing and experienced at this task, something they had done successfully for hundreds of years, until NATO pushed them aside.

    Yes, there will be increased violence as Islamic terrorists and criminal gangs battle Serbian police, once again. The Serbians will win, once again. The terrorists will be pushed out and criminal activity reduced. Violence will also decrease in neighboring Macedonia which is often terrorized by gangs from Kosovo. Serbians can return to their stolen properties and rebuild their Christian churches. During a 2000 presidential debate, George Bush said: “But one of the problems we have in the military is we’re in a lot of places around the world. And I mentioned one, and that’s the Balkans. I would very much like to get our troops out of there.” Given the strain on the US Army, American troops should leave Kosovo by years’ end. The last American officer to leave should tell his Serbian replacement: Sorry about all this, it was our mistake. Good luck and good bye.

    Carlton Meyer [email protected]

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    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Many here (including the author), perhaps with some help from their grandmother, appear to be merrily manufacturing their own alternative facts, in conjunction with other friendly sources of alternative facts.

    What a convoluted web of lies and deceit mankind weaves. *spit*

    I have 2 incontrovertible (trust me :) ) facts for all your kind consideration;

    1. God is One, Infinite and Unique. In other words, 2..n ≠ 1.
    2. The white race, for the most part, is a bunch of evil greedy psychopaths.

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  31. @Bartolo
    I have a great deal of sympathy for Kosovo. I attended a speech by Nikola Mirkovic, bought and read his book ("Le martyre du Kosovo") and I feel strongly about the horrible treatment inflicted on Serbians.

    But The Saker, brilliant and insightful as he is in many, many respects, displays the hallmark boomer stupidity when it comes to demographics. Kosovo´s being recovered is wishful thinking, because it´s 95% Albanian (and 4% Serbian). Recovering the territory to rule over a very different, profoundly hostile people living in it is worse than pointless, it would mean self-inflicted pain and problems.

    Even if a peaceful "ethnic cleansing" were possible (hint: it is not), Serbia´s demography is very weak. Who would they repopulate the territory with? Syrian "refugees" on their way to Germany through the Balkan route? Come on...

    Kosovo is lost forever. And the lesson it holds for others is: don´t become a minority in your own country, especially when the newcomer is hostile (and everyone else will support them).

    Oh, and it seems they are totally cucked: media in the Empire´s hands, lesbian prime minister, playing footsie with the EU... It´s over, Saker. Take the black pill.

    Why would the Serbs be limited to peaceful measures against the albanian kosovars? Why should they be?

    Answer is, Serbs, like all white European peoples and close allies of our civilization, need to have way more children and do whatever is necessary to get the land and resources back. To Hell with the Albanians. Literally.

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    • Replies: @L.K
    Albanians ARE a white European population... it just so happens that a majority of them eventually converted to Islam because of the Ottoman invasion and occupation.

    Same for the South Slavic Bosniaks... they don't cease being European just because most adopted the invader's religion.
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  32. Issac says:
    @Alias Anonymous
    To The Saker Serbs are the good guys and Muslims the bad guys.

    To Eric Margolis Muslims are the angels and Serbs the demons.

    Who really is right?

    I think the appropriate Saker narrative is “every one of our subordina- I mean, wonderful family members, would get along without those dastardly americans and zionists.” That, and the last two words would be scrubbed from the Russian version. When you distill the Saker down, it’s simply progressive madlibs. Replace designated right-wing bogeyman with “anglo-zionist,” and voila.

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  33. BozoB says:

    Sometimes it’s the irrelevant asides that undermine one’s credibility. Does “the Saker” really mean to say that the Russian athletes weren’t doping significantly more than anyone else?

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  34. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Saker thinks Serbian nationalism good, Albanian and other nationalisms bad.

    Well, the Saker is right in this case. In Kosovo, Serbs wanted to keep their territory while Albanians moved in and multiplied until they could claim it. Same is happening now in Western Europe in no-go zones which will grow to cover whole cities and provinces if the natives let it happen. There’s a massive difference between defensive and offensive nationalism.

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    • Replies: @Bayan
    Aren't Albanians the original inhabitants of the area, and Slavs are relatively new comers? Not sure, I could be wrong. But the fact that Albanians are largely Muslim does not make them Syrian refugees. Just like the Christianity of most Slavs does not make the middle eastern.
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  35. Kiza says:
    @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    Margolis is a leading CIA journalist. He skilfully writes left-leaning pieces into which he weaves in US Deep State propaganda.

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    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
    I used to follow Margolis, in particular his interviews on Antiwar.com, until his reactions to Brexit and Trump proved he was in bed with the globalists.
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  36. @MarkinPNW
    My understanding of what happened to Yugoslavia actually comes from research and postings at an old website; polyconomics.com run be the late political economist Jude Wanniski, and also from Antiwar.com in the 1990's.

    Basically Wanniski showed that the bankers, through the IMF (International Monetary Fund) and World Bank did a deliberate Perkins type of economic hit on the Yugoslav economy because they apparently did not like Yugoslavia’s “Market Socialism” – not capitalist enough. All the various nationalities and ethnicities were apparently willing to co-operate when times were good even if they did not like each other, but when their economies were deliberately destroyed, all their resentments over past conflicts and genocides came to the fore in violent conflict.

    Later events seem to show that one thing the international bankers were after was Kosovo’s mineral wealth, especially gold, that they could not exploit as long as Market Socialism policy insisted on mineral wealth of the country being for Yugoslavia’s people and government and not for the foreign international bankers. Thus the need to destroy the prosperity and peace of Yugoslavia to get control of Kosovo’s minerals.

    Perhaps the real losers were all of the different groups of the former Yugoslavia; Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Kosovians, Orthodox, Catholic, Muslim, whatever; and the winners are the Bankers of the west who, in deliberately destroying the peace and prosperity of Yugoslavia, got control their natural resources, such as the Gold of Kosovo.

    The whole Yugoslavia episode, and the economic explanations from the above mentioned Polyconomics website, was actually the beginning of my taking the red pill and waking up to the reality of what the New World Order and PNAC was and is all about.

    There were other things that also helped to wake me up, mainly teachings from my childhood religious traditions which warn about secret combinations that "... seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning. " *

    Unfortunately many in this religious tradition are trying so hard to be accepted by the world, and especially by the pro-Zionist evangelicals (even though the pro-Zionist evangelicals still do not accept them as "True Christians") that they support all of the Zionist and neo-con pro-war agenda.

    *Ether 8:25 from "The Book of Mormon; Another Testament of Jesus Christ"

    Right! The Empire cares naught for human rights, self-determination, etc. Follow the money!

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  37. @Kiza
    Margolis is a leading CIA journalist. He skilfully writes left-leaning pieces into which he weaves in US Deep State propaganda.

    I used to follow Margolis, in particular his interviews on Antiwar.com, until his reactions to Brexit and Trump proved he was in bed with the globalists.

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  38. Kiza says:

    One of the worst aspects of the war was the absolutely disgraceful behavior of Muslim nations and communities worldwide: they all supported their supposed ‘brethren’ in Bosnia even though the latter were 1) useful idiots for the Empire 2) mostly secular and 3) when religious, of an imported “Saudi wahhabi” kind (just like in Chechnia, by the way). Instead of trying to make sense of what was really taking place, the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide reacted in knee-jerk manner I call “wrong or right – my Ummah!”, even the Iranians fell into that AngloZionist trap.

    Yes, this was one of the most interesting aspect of the Anglo-Zionist attacks on the Serbians Yugoslavia-wide. The fact that Iranian holly warriors were being delivered to Bosnia on US transport planes landing at Sarajevo airport (marked as U.N.), to fight the Bosnian Serbs should signal to Russia how permanent a friend and ally Iran will be. Imagine for a moment that the Zio-Wahabi gangsters gave up on attacking Iran, who do Russians think would Iran gladly ally with then, them or US?

    Another interesting aspect of the Bosnian war was that Israel sold weapons to Bosnian Serbs (only Israel could defy the U.N. sanctions on weapon sales to Bosnia with impunity), but the same Israeli Government of Yitzhak Rabin was with huge Western media fanfare “accepting Bosnian Muslim refugees running away from the Serb killers”. Just like the drug-war, the U.N. sanctions also serve to monopolise the market and deliver it to the chosen party.

    Finally, I find a good parallel between the IOC ban of Russia and the fact that during the attacks on the Serbians the same ZioWahabis deployed even the National Geographic magazine in their anti-Serbian propaganda. On top of full 24×7 MSM propaganda, the supposedly scientific magazine published a terrible propaganda piece on Milosevic and the whole of Serbia. Where is the similarity you may wonder – the Russian enemy always uses absolutely any and every tool at its disposal. Let me paraphrase Madeleine Albright – What is the point of having this superb IOC if we do not get to use it?

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  39. Kiza says:

    One more lesser known aspect of the nine year ZioWahabi NATO war on the Serbians all around former Yugoslavia. One of few Muslim leaders who did not jump on the ZioWahabi bandwagon, unlike Iran, was Muammar Gaddafi of Lybia. Gaddafi understood that Bosnian Muslims were being used as a tool and did not support the NATO military interventions in former Yugoslavia. The Bosnian Muslims today boast of a payback – that it was their UNSC vote which won the U.N. authorisation for the NATO “humanitarian” intervention in Lybia, which totally devastated Lybia and killed Gaddafi, the U.N. resolution that the Russian pro-Western liberal Medvedev let pass without a veto.

    This is why the dominant opinion about President Swamp’s declaration of Jerusalem as Israeli capital is that there will be a lot of storm in a cup, but the Muslims will eventually accept it as a done deal – too stupid and too little backbone. The ZioWahabis are terribly rotten but they are not stupid, they know the Muslims too well.

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  40. Bayan says:
    @Bayan
    Yugoslavia was an interesting unique country. European but nonaligned; communist but market socialism and worker managed enterprises; multinational and multifaith federation. Problem was federation without democracy is a disaster waiting to happen. In the 1980s when the Yugoslav economy faced problems the relatively prosperous northern members of the federation started gossiping, blaming and insulting the southern members. They seemed to be ignorant that federations are so. Not all regions will be equally prosperous, you got to help each other.

    In mature democracies such sentiments will be aired, debated, and adjustments made here and there. You may even allow members to separate peacefully. Instead things were bottled up in Yugoslavia, and when the gods let accident happen to the USSR; Yugoslavia’s federation exploded. Yugoslavian federation like the USSR lacked democracy and tradition of negotiation among their members. It was top down federation. They opened themselves for external intervention, which by the way was not necessary for the breakups. NATO powers just do know what to do with the power they accumulated overtime. The weak suffer.

    The Saker thinks Serbian nationalism good, Albanian and other nationalisms bad. He has a simplistic criterion: is it good for Russia? I do not know of any nationalism that is always good, or always evil. It depends on the criteria you use. Poor argument if you just say: what is good for Russia is good for the world.

    I meant ‘NATO powers just do NOT know what to do with the power they accumulated overtime.’

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  41. Bayan says:
    @Anonymous

    The Saker thinks Serbian nationalism good, Albanian and other nationalisms bad.
     
    Well, the Saker is right in this case. In Kosovo, Serbs wanted to keep their territory while Albanians moved in and multiplied until they could claim it. Same is happening now in Western Europe in no-go zones which will grow to cover whole cities and provinces if the natives let it happen. There's a massive difference between defensive and offensive nationalism.

    Aren’t Albanians the original inhabitants of the area, and Slavs are relatively new comers? Not sure, I could be wrong. But the fact that Albanians are largely Muslim does not make them Syrian refugees. Just like the Christianity of most Slavs does not make the middle eastern.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    The territory that is today Albania was not spared from the mass movement of Slavs, Avars and other peoples into the Balkans over the centuries, although, on linguistic evidence, it wasn't shaped by these events to the same extent. So the idea that Albanians were some pristine autochthonous group, while Serbs are alien newcomers is a bit of an exaggeration, and really has no place in trying to settle contemporary ethnic issues.

    In Kosovo itself, from the early middle ages on, Serbs were most likely the predominant group. But after the Turkish conquest, large numbers of Serbs fled and Albanians began to arrive. A few hundred years later and Albanian numbers first matched and then vastly exceeded Serb numbers. For the last forty or so years, Albanians have predominated so thoroughly that referring to Kosovo as "Serbian land" is rationally and morally untenable. Unfortunately, for Serbian nationalism, Kosovo is considered some kind of "holy" territory, sort of the way Palestine is for Jews. Needless to say, this complicates efforts to achieve peace in the region.
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  42. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Aren’t Albanians the original inhabitants of the area, and Slavs are relatively new comers?

    Nope.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    The Illyrians weren't Slavs.
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  43. Tom57 says:
    @peterAUS
    A good post.
    Actually, a surprisingly good post for this type of site. Probably helps a lot when a wife is from "over there":).

    A couple of comments if I may.

    Re Krajina.
    Saker was/is thinking about armed return and I think that's a VERY bad idea.
    You, I guess, are thinking about peaceful return under international supervision.
    Things are a bit more....complicated...........there.
    That entity (Serb Krajina) was '91-95 actually four distinctive regions. Two of them "poor" and two "rich". If you are talking about returning to two "rich" regions, agree. But, Serbs, as far as I know, aren't really keen, after living "abroad", to return there anymore.
    And, well, people who live there now are mostly Croat refugees ethnically cleansed from Bosnia (or even some Catholics from Kosovo). Mixing again with large number of Serbs, well.....not a good mix I am afraid.

    ...it is abundandly clear to anybody that the Muslims lost the war and were ethnically cleansed from a lot of their former territory. Witness Banja Luka. If not for Western intervention there would be no more Muslims in Bosnia now. Croats and Serbs would have either killed, expelled or forcefully converted all of them.
    Therefore the Muslims are pining for revenge.
     
    Absolutely agree.

    To this day. Serbs and Croats in Bosnia know this very well and therefore have a much better relationship with each other than with the Muslims. Trust my words: go into any pub or cafe in Mostar or Banja Luka and you will find there Croats and Serbs sitting quite peacefully together.
     
    Well....not quite I am afraid. Not at all.
    The MAIN opponent, in Balkans, for Croat nationalists, are Serbs.
    I ....guess......that the main opponent for Serb nationalists are Albanians and Muslims, in that order.
    So, in a case of a clash there, I am absolutely positive that choosing/maintaining alliances/taking on opponents would be a bit more complicated than you suggest.
    If I recollect properly Croats and Muslims were together against Serbs from 1992 to 1993 and again in 1994-1995. THAT is, IMHO, very important to understand in this picture.

    There will only be peace if an outside authority comes in and tells everybody to shut up
     
    Hahaha..........a good one.
    The CONUNDRUM of Balkans.
    No "outside authority"--->BANG.
    "Outside authority"--->oppression, no democracy, no human rights etc...etc.
    What to do?

    One has to do what Tito did: kill all these Nationalists like so many rabid dogs.
     
    Well....didn't work well, did it?
    More you kill them more, somehow, they pop up when an opportunity arises.
    The CONUNDRUM again.

    Otherwise there never will be peace.
     
    I...feel....you are getting somewhere here.

    People of all nationalities do realize that. Go to any pub, cafe in any area in Bosnia (no matter whether Croatian, Serbian aor Muslim) and chances are you will find a picture of Tito.
     
    You're sure about those pictures in "Herzeg-Bosna"?

    Really the Saker shouldn´t write about things of which he hasn´t a clue.
     
    Agree.

    I was only talking about Bosnia and Serbs, Croats and Muslims there. Generally speaking you are right regarding Croats and Serbs. But please remember: the perspective in Bosnia is quite different. You also got the conundrum facing the Balkans quite right: dictatorship vs rabid Nationalism. I tend to go with the dictatorship. Especially considering that in mountain regions such as Bosnia any dictatorship tends to be much less effective that in more easily controllable places. By the way I am an old rock n´roller.
    Bang heads in all peace and call each other Tshetnik, Ustasha and Shiptar and get drunk together. Happened in Berlin in the Nineties among deserters of all nationalities. Been there and smelled the dead bodies floating in the Drina. Not for me nationalism. Not even of the naive kind of the Saker.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well....the "thing" is complicated; it it weren't it would've been solved in some way so far.
    I don't pretend to have even a hint of a solution.
    At the same time I guess I can recognize bad solutions too.

    Balkans is one of those places where everybody likes to take a very brief look at and have a very strong opinion what's been happening and how to address that, even have a solution. Saker is actually better than most.

    There is no "Kosovo" problem by itself. As soon as somebody, in future, is able to change anything there it will affect the rest of Balkans, or will be affected by the rest of Balkans.
    Everything is so interconnected that it boggles the mind. Or not, depending who one is.
    For Ustashe, for example, is actually very simple: Great Croatia as in WW2 plus Dalmatia and Istria.
    Similar for Chetniks, too...........just the other way around.
    Etc.

    The region is inherently unstable; has been for a quite some tome and it will, most likely be for some time. That wouldn't be important if it was somewhere in Africa/Asia, but it IS in Europe and EU that already has plenty of problems without Balkans on top of them. A spark in Balkans, resulting in a proper shooting could make..............a big problem for EU etc.

    I guess you are a Westerner who was there during...."troubles" (bodies in Drina etc).
    That hint about "Berlin in the Nineties among deserters of all nationalities" is interesting. Those fled the thing; you should've spoken with those who came in the thick of it from all over the world, to fight. The opposite types within the same ethnic groups.

    You mentioned rabid nationalism.
    Well...........................some people can't even begin to understand it.
    BUT.........the power of it is very easy to understand.
    Maybe there is nothing to understand at all; you either get it or not. And...who is to say that those who don't understand it are better/smarter/more developed as people/societies?
    Maybe rabid nationalists are in fault, something wrong with them.
    Or......maybe people who don't get nationalism lack something essential within?
    One can get into debate here lasting for a year. Waste of time.

    Accepting some facts when dealing with it isn't waste of time.

    Dictatorship works as long as it works with anything...........
    During Communists it worked all over Eastern Europe, Soviet Union included.
    Well.........not anymore.

    The "soft" dictatorship, is, actually, working as we speak in Balkans, especially in Bosnia. That's obvious.
    This recent sentencing of Mladic and "Croat Six" is perfect example.
    And, of course, it will be more of that sooner or later. That's how The Empire believes it keeps a check on nationalism there. Maybe The Empire will be successful there. Maybe it won't. Maybe more it pushes those types down more explosive they'll get up.
    Examples from WW2 and '90 could point how that could unravel.

    The...haha....problem with Saker and most of people reading/posting here is actually.........funny. In a sort of morbid way.
    They are people who THINK about all that. They have all the data,numbers, percentages, iron logic, science....blah...blah.....
    Nationalists simply FEEL it.

    More the thinkers believe they "won the debate" and "own the argument" more they, actually, get detached from the core issue there.
    And then, when a first round is fired they have that "deer in a light" look.
    Funny, depending of what side of the barrel one is.

    As for technicalities of the "Kosovo" problem, well.....I believe that, should The Empire retreats and, consequently, Russia is able to exert influence in the region.....Serbia, in 6 months, could retake parts of Kosovo important to Serbs and pacify it. Yes...with ethnic cleansing, of course. Yes, with empty space afterwards, if necessary. The point is not to have people living there. The point is NOT to have Albanians living there.

    At the same time, though.......what would happen in Bosnia....and in Macedonia.....if I knew that I would't be posting here. .

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  44. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Ron Unz has a lot to answer for. It beggars belief that a site trying to attract the attention of serious people would feature a complete fucking idiot like Saker.

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  45. And so, with the keen support of most of the population, Serbia is joining the EU. Odd that. Perhaps they are fed up of nationalism.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    How about letting go of your own UK nationalism and "God Save The Queen" crap first?

    Typical British hypocrite slimebag.
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  46. peterAUS says:
    @Tom57
    I was only talking about Bosnia and Serbs, Croats and Muslims there. Generally speaking you are right regarding Croats and Serbs. But please remember: the perspective in Bosnia is quite different. You also got the conundrum facing the Balkans quite right: dictatorship vs rabid Nationalism. I tend to go with the dictatorship. Especially considering that in mountain regions such as Bosnia any dictatorship tends to be much less effective that in more easily controllable places. By the way I am an old rock n´roller.
    Bang heads in all peace and call each other Tshetnik, Ustasha and Shiptar and get drunk together. Happened in Berlin in the Nineties among deserters of all nationalities. Been there and smelled the dead bodies floating in the Drina. Not for me nationalism. Not even of the naive kind of the Saker.

    Well….the “thing” is complicated; it it weren’t it would’ve been solved in some way so far.
    I don’t pretend to have even a hint of a solution.
    At the same time I guess I can recognize bad solutions too.

    Balkans is one of those places where everybody likes to take a very brief look at and have a very strong opinion what’s been happening and how to address that, even have a solution. Saker is actually better than most.

    There is no “Kosovo” problem by itself. As soon as somebody, in future, is able to change anything there it will affect the rest of Balkans, or will be affected by the rest of Balkans.
    Everything is so interconnected that it boggles the mind. Or not, depending who one is.
    For Ustashe, for example, is actually very simple: Great Croatia as in WW2 plus Dalmatia and Istria.
    Similar for Chetniks, too………..just the other way around.
    Etc.

    The region is inherently unstable; has been for a quite some tome and it will, most likely be for some time. That wouldn’t be important if it was somewhere in Africa/Asia, but it IS in Europe and EU that already has plenty of problems without Balkans on top of them. A spark in Balkans, resulting in a proper shooting could make…………..a big problem for EU etc.

    I guess you are a Westerner who was there during….”troubles” (bodies in Drina etc).
    That hint about “Berlin in the Nineties among deserters of all nationalities” is interesting. Those fled the thing; you should’ve spoken with those who came in the thick of it from all over the world, to fight. The opposite types within the same ethnic groups.

    You mentioned rabid nationalism.
    Well………………………some people can’t even begin to understand it.
    BUT………the power of it is very easy to understand.
    Maybe there is nothing to understand at all; you either get it or not. And…who is to say that those who don’t understand it are better/smarter/more developed as people/societies?
    Maybe rabid nationalists are in fault, something wrong with them.
    Or……maybe people who don’t get nationalism lack something essential within?
    One can get into debate here lasting for a year. Waste of time.

    Accepting some facts when dealing with it isn’t waste of time.

    Dictatorship works as long as it works with anything………..
    During Communists it worked all over Eastern Europe, Soviet Union included.
    Well………not anymore.

    The “soft” dictatorship, is, actually, working as we speak in Balkans, especially in Bosnia. That’s obvious.
    This recent sentencing of Mladic and “Croat Six” is perfect example.
    And, of course, it will be more of that sooner or later. That’s how The Empire believes it keeps a check on nationalism there. Maybe The Empire will be successful there. Maybe it won’t. Maybe more it pushes those types down more explosive they’ll get up.
    Examples from WW2 and ’90 could point how that could unravel.

    The…haha….problem with Saker and most of people reading/posting here is actually………funny. In a sort of morbid way.
    They are people who THINK about all that. They have all the data,numbers, percentages, iron logic, science….blah…blah…..
    Nationalists simply FEEL it.

    More the thinkers believe they “won the debate” and “own the argument” more they, actually, get detached from the core issue there.
    And then, when a first round is fired they have that “deer in a light” look.
    Funny, depending of what side of the barrel one is.

    As for technicalities of the “Kosovo” problem, well…..I believe that, should The Empire retreats and, consequently, Russia is able to exert influence in the region…..Serbia, in 6 months, could retake parts of Kosovo important to Serbs and pacify it. Yes…with ethnic cleansing, of course. Yes, with empty space afterwards, if necessary. The point is not to have people living there. The point is NOT to have Albanians living there.

    At the same time, though…….what would happen in Bosnia….and in Macedonia…..if I knew that I would’t be posting here. .

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    • Replies: @Tom57
    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. The problem in Bosnia is that there isn´t a real dictatorship. The EU made all those Nationalists sit all around the table and said: AGREE AMONGST EACH OTHER. But they can´t and they won´t. So the EU comes in and imposes some half baked solution which is neither here nor there. Bosnia is still in limbo.
    Contrast that with the Turcs and Austrians who told everybody that the buck stops here. But in your own community you make your own rules. Everything else is decided by us.
    Tito and his communists were supranational. They were equal opportunity killers. Tshetnik, Ustasha were all the same to them. And that is how they won. Because the vast majority actually wants to live in peace and raise their children in peace. If they have the choice between "democratic" nationalism that will result in chaos or a dictatorship that supplies stability they will choose stability.
    I maintain: unless somebody from outside comes in and imposes order there will never be any development in the Balkans. Who can do it? The Empire of Chaos? No way. They just wanted their camp bondsteel and that is all they achieved.
    The Russians? No way as long as they identify solely with the Serbs.
    The EU? Much to divided itself.
    I am afraid that there is no good future for the moment.
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  47. @Anonymous

    Aren’t Albanians the original inhabitants of the area, and Slavs are relatively new comers?
     
    Nope.

    The Illyrians weren’t Slavs.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    What overall meaning and purpose do your tendentious comments on this blog have, other than continually reiterating - in a barely disguised, supposedly "sophisticated" manner - how much contempt, hate, and envy you have towards Russians, Serbs and Slavs/East Europeans in general (you know - little "British Empire" cut down to size while still big and major Russia, and all that)?
    , @Antiwar7
    The Albanians aren't Illyrians, though they'd like to think they are, to give themselves a better claim to all the land around there.
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  48. J. H. says:

    Meanwhile in Canada…

    Will the US back Quebec’s independence in order to use both military airports and the ”French connection” to bomb Iran or launch a remote-controlled revolution in Iran with the MEK?

    What will Trudeau do? Dump 800 soldiers on Quebecers with the blessing of Washington if they illegally (UN resolution 1244) declare independence as Kosovo did?

    ”To bring Thaci to Ottawa, forgive him his past and present sins, and then trumpet his anti-Russia rhetoric as sage advice is folly in the extreme. For Thaci to suggest that his values and those of his corrupt Kosovar regime are the same as Canadian values is an insult to Canada.”

    http://espritdecorps.ca/on-target-4/on-target-canada-does-not-share-common-values-with-corrupt-kosovo-regime

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  49. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist
    Who was it that said, "Kill them all and let God sort them out?"

    You do realise that kind of applies to you too, right?

    The “sorting” your kind is destined for… time to piss in your pants man!

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    "... time to piss in your pants man!"
     
    Nah, I'll piss on my would-be-killer after killing him.
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  50. Dissenter says:

    “Muslims worldwide were conned by the Empire only to find themselves in exactly the same situation as the Serbs, only a decade later.”

    This and your suggestion that muslims suffer from karma, gets me to the conclusion that you come right now with this article in the hope of justifying the clumsy move by your so supported Trump about Jerusalem.
    You just did not expect such world wide clamour opposing your crazy decission and so you need to come with more nonsense to justify the unjustifiable.

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  51. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Carlton Meyer
    Hubris. NATO weakens.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL_MjlSKjSw

    I wrote about all this in 2004:

    Editorial

    While the Bush Administration dances around their lies about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction used to justify the conquest of Iraq, let us recall the Clinton administration lied to justify their conquest of Kosovo in 1999. No mass graves were found, except in places where a few dozen Islamic terrorists, and civilians caught in the crossfire, were killed in firefights with Serbian police. There was no "ethnic cleansing" by the Serbian army, which includes thousands of Muslim soldiers. Reports that civilians were forced to vacate cities by evil Serbian police proved false; they fled because they were terrified as NATO aircraft unleashed hundreds of bombs over a three week period, killing 2000 civilians. This destroyed the Serbian economy and terrorized their government into submission, which resulted in a compromise in which Serbia retained sovereignty over its Kosovo province and agreed to allow NATO peacekeepers to occupy Kosovo on a temporary basis.

    As with the conquest of Iraq, it is uncertain why this conflict arose. Some think it was created by the powerful NATO bureaucracy to justify their post Cold war existence. Defense contractors made handsome profits though supplemental funding while contractors like Halliburton continue to pocket billions of dollars to support the occupation of Kosovo. Others claim it was a public relations gimmick by President Clinton, while a few think more sinister reasons were involved. Here is an excellent update on the present situation:

    THE NATIONAL POST (Canada) | 2004-04-06 |

    We bombed the wrong side?

    Major General Lewis MacKenzie - Armed Forces of Canada (retired)

    Five years ago our television screens were dominated by pictures of Kosovo-Albanian refugees escaping across Kosovo's borders to the sanctuaries of Macedonia and Albania. Shrill reports indicated that Slobodan Milosevic's security forces were conducting a campaign of genocide and that at least 100,000 Kosovo-Albanians had been exterminated and buried in mass graves throughout the Serbian province. NATO sprung into action and, in spite of the fact no member nation of the alliance was threatened, commenced bombing not only Kosovo, but the infrastructure and population of Serbia itself -- without the authorizing United Nations resolution so revered by Canadian leadership, past and present.

    Those of us who warned that the West was being sucked in on the side of an extremist, militant, Kosovo-Albanian independence movement were dismissed as appeasers. The fact that the lead organization spearheading the fight for independence, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), was universally designated a terrorist organization and known to be receiving support from Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda was conveniently ignored.

    The recent dearth of news in the North American media regarding the increase in violence in Kosovo compared to the comprehensive coverage in the European press strongly suggests that we Canadians don't like to admit it when we are wrong. On the contrary, selected news clips on this side of the ocean continue to reinforce the popular spin that those dastardly Serbs are at it again.

    A case in point was the latest crisis that exploded on March 15. The media reported that four Albanian boys had been chased into the river Ibar in Mitrovica by at least two Serbs and a dog (the dog's ethnic affiliation was not reported). Three of the boys drowned and one escaped to the other side. Immediately, thousands of Albanians mobilized and concentrated in the area of the divided city. Attacks on Serbs took place throughout the province resulting in an estimated 30 killed and 600 wounded. Thirty Serbian Christian Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed, more than 300 homes were burnt to the ground and six Serbian villages cleansed of their occupants. One hundred and fifty international peacekeepers were injured.

    Totally ignored in North America were the numerous statements from impartial sources that said there was no incident between the Serbs, the dog and the Albanian boys. NATO Police spokesman Derek Chappell stated on March 16 that it was "definitely not true" that the boys had been chased into the river by Serbs. Chappell went on to say that the surviving boy had told his parents that they had entered the river alone and that three of his friends had been swept away by the current. Admiral Gregory Johnson, the overall NATO commander, further stated that the ensuing clashes were "orchestrated and well-planned ethnic cleansing" by the Kosovo-Albanians. Those Serbs forced to leave joined the 200,000 who had been cleansed from the province since NATO's "humanitarian" bombing in 1999. The '"cleansees" have become very effective "cleansers."

    In the same week a number of individuals posing as Serbs ambushed and killed a UN policeman and his local police partner. During the firefight one of them was wounded which caused an immediate switch from Serbian to Albanian as he screamed, "I've been hit"! The UN pursued the attackers and tracked them to an Albanian-run farm where they discovered weapons and the wounded Albanian who had died from his wounds. Four Albanians were arrested. Once again, the ambush had been reported in the United States but not the follow-up which clearly indicated yet another orchestrated provocation by the Albanian terrorists.

    Kosovo is administered by the UN, the very organization many Canadians have indicated they would like to see take over from the United States in Iraq. The fact the UN cannot order its civilian employees to go or stay anywhere -- they have to volunteer -- combined with recent history that saw the UN abandon Iraq after a single brutal attack on their compound in Baghdad and the reality that Kosovo, under the organization's administration, is a basket case, disqualifies it from consideration for such a role.

    Since the NATO/UN intervention in 1999, Kosovo has become the crime capital of Europe. The sex slave trade is flourishing. The province has become an invaluable transit point for drugs en route to Europe and North America. Ironically, the majority of the drugs come from another state "liberated" by the West, Afghanistan. Members of the demobilized, but not eliminated, KLA are intimately involved in organized crime and the government. The UN police arrest a small percentage of those involved in criminal activities and turn them over to a judiciary with a revolving door that responds to bribes and coercion. The objective of the Albanians is to purge all non-Albanians, including the international community's representatives, from Kosovo and ultimately link up with mother Albania thereby achieving the goal of "Greater Albania." The campaign started with their attacks on Serbian security forces in the early 1990s and they were successful in turning Milosevic's heavy-handed response into worldwide sympathy for their cause. There was no genocide as claimed by the West -- the 100,000 allegedly buried in mass graves turned out to be around 2,000, of all ethnic origins, including those killed in combat during the war itself.

    The Kosovo-Albanians have played us like a Stradivarius. We have subsidized and indirectly supported their violent campaign for an ethnically pure and independent Kosovo. We have never blamed them for being the perpetrators of the violence in the early '90s and we continue to portray them as the designated victim today in spite of evidence to the contrary. When they achieve independence with the help of our tax dollars combined with those of bin Laden and al-Qaeda, just consider the message of encouragement this sends to other terrorist-supported independence movements around the world.

    Funny how we just keep digging the hole deeper!

    Maj-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, now retired, commanded UN troops during the Bosnian civil war of 1992.

    (c) 2004 National Post . All Rights Reserved.

    Serbia is a European democracy which maintains friendly relations with all nations. It delivered Milosevic to the war crimes tribunal in the Hague two years ago, although they are having trouble accumulating evidence that he used excessive force to suppress Islamic terrorists in Kosovo. Fighting had increased in the late 1990s as the CIA shipped arms to the KLA terror group and helped coordinate Iranian weapon shipments to Albania funded in part by Al Qaeda. Deposing Milosevic and turning him over for "war crimes" was a key demand, yet NATO (e.g. the United States) has yet to announce when the temporary NATO peacekeepers will depart.

    Kosovo has been part of Serbia for hundreds of years, and remains part of Serbia as recognized by every nation on Earth, including the United States. NATO and the UN have failed to keep the peace in Kosovo, and lack the resolve to pursue Islamic terrorists and criminal gangs based there. The United States hasn't the resources to provide security forever, and no European ally is anxious to add troops. The solution is obvious; allow Serbian peacekeepers to return to Serbia's Kosovo province. They are willing and experienced at this task, something they had done successfully for hundreds of years, until NATO pushed them aside.

    Yes, there will be increased violence as Islamic terrorists and criminal gangs battle Serbian police, once again. The Serbians will win, once again. The terrorists will be pushed out and criminal activity reduced. Violence will also decrease in neighboring Macedonia which is often terrorized by gangs from Kosovo. Serbians can return to their stolen properties and rebuild their Christian churches. During a 2000 presidential debate, George Bush said: "But one of the problems we have in the military is we're in a lot of places around the world. And I mentioned one, and that's the Balkans. I would very much like to get our troops out of there." Given the strain on the US Army, American troops should leave Kosovo by years' end. The last American officer to leave should tell his Serbian replacement: Sorry about all this, it was our mistake. Good luck and good bye.

    Carlton Meyer [email protected]

    Many here (including the author), perhaps with some help from their grandmother, appear to be merrily manufacturing their own alternative facts, in conjunction with other friendly sources of alternative facts.

    What a convoluted web of lies and deceit mankind weaves. *spit*

    I have 2 incontrovertible (trust me :) ) facts for all your kind consideration;

    1. God is One, Infinite and Unique. In other words, 2..n ≠ 1.
    2. The white race, for the most part, is a bunch of evil greedy psychopaths.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    HUMAN BEINGS are inherently inclined to greed, easily tempted or convinced or goaded into evil, and full of sociopathy. Fixed that for ya.
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  52. Jim says:
    @Tom57
    Unfortunately the Saker gets a few things wrong. First what he gets right: yes indeed the war in 1999 was illegal and Milosevic badly tricked. But no, no pendulum will swing back. Kosovo was 60% Albanian already in the Fifties and 80% in 1989 when the Serbs took away the autonomy of Kosovo.
    Which started first the peaceful protest and then the guerilla activities of the Albanian majority.

    You might have as many Serbian churches and moasteries as you like. The vast majority of the population is Albanian. Furthermore Albanians still have a healthy birth rate whereas Serbians just barely manage to keep their numbers. Serbia (just like Russia) is a country where there is no appetite for large scale bloodletting anymore. Families are small and more than 50% live in cities. Young men are as smart phone and porn addicted as anywhere else in the West. In Kosovo young men have to spend their time on the streets as there is no place in the appartments and houses for them.
    In a guerilla war Serbia wouldn´t have a chance. She would never be able to subdue Kosovo as long as Albanians are the majority. It would be another story if Serbia had modern weapons and Albanians only hunting rifles. Then Serbia could opt for large scale ethnic cleansing. Either decimate or expell all Albanians from Kosovo. But that would draw in all neighbours who surely wouldn´t want the inevitable destabilisation of the whole region. In reality things are over.
    It is an altogether different matter with the Kraina. Here Croats were never more than 10% of the population and would have never won without Western backing and ethnic cleansing. But in a rational world Serbs should be able to come back. They lived in a compact area and were no more than ten percent of the overall population of Croatia. In fact it is well passed time to reach an agreement. The EU should have never have let Croatia in without having solved the problem of the Kraina.
    Finally about Bosnia: my wife happens to be a Serb from Banja Luka in Bosnia. Whatever fantasies Serbs in Belgrade might entertain it is abundandly clear to anybody that the Muslims lost the war and were ethnically cleansed from a lot of their former territory. Witness Banja Luka. If not for Western intervention there would be no more Muslims in Bosnia now. Croats and Serbs would have either killed, expelled or forcefully converted all of them.
    Therefore the Muslims are pining for revenge. To this day. Serbs and Croats in Bosnia know this very well and therefore have a much better relationship with each other than with the Muslims. Trust my words: go into any pub or cafe in Mostar or Banja Luka and you will find there Croats and Serbs sitting quite peacefully together. But never any Muslims.
    Except for two or three centuries in the middle ages the Balkans have always been a part of various empires. Roman, Byzantine, Turkish, Holy Roman Empire. These empires including the Turkish empire were much more tolerant that the mini nation states that succeeded them. One feels reminded of the Caucasus where more sober minds realize that the power vacuum left after the demise of the USSR was good for no one. There will only be peace if an outside authority comes in and tells everybody to shut up..One has to do what Tito did: kill all these Nationalists like so many rabid dogs. Otherwise there never will be peace. People of all nationalities do realize that. Go to any pub, cafe in any area in Bosnia (no matter whether Croatian, Serbian aor Muslim) and chances are you will find a picture of Tito. Or ask anybody in Bosnia who was the best politician ever: Tito.

    Really the Saker shouldn´t write about things of which he hasn´t a clue.

    Yugoslavia was always a pretend country. It had many different ethnicities but one ethnicity it lacked – it didn’t have any Yugoslavs. Such a conglomeration may be held together by force as Tito held Yugoslavia together for a while. But such polities are fundamentally unstable and eventually disintegrate violently.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    The differences between the Yugoslav peoples were not really greater than the differences between the various German peoples in 1871. The difference was Germany came into being as a result of long-term developments in German nationalism, whereas as Yugoslavia was only latterly cobbled together out of long-term developments in Serbian, Croatian and Slovenian nationalism (and much, much later, Macedonian nationalism). Of course, there were plenty of 19th century intellectuals who looked forward to something like a Yugoslavia, but this concept was emotionally distant for most of the people who were eventually to make up that state.

    I blame the communists for the breakup of Yugoslavia. Their approach to legitimate historical grievances between the Yugoslav peoples was to paper over them, blame them on bourgeois interests, and then prohibit any real discussion of them. The attempt to mold Yugoslavs scarcely went beyond sloganeering ("Brotherhood and Unity" - the Yugoslav version of "Diversity is Strength"). Being (mostly) of a mixed Yugoslav background, to me it was a great tragedy that a people who had so much in common came to despise each other so much. The lesson I draw from the Yugoslavia's breakup is that, as poisonous as ethnic nationalism can be, it's better to allow uncensored discussion of ethnic issues than to pretend everything is hunky-dory, punishing those voices who'd dispute it. Bottling these issues up can appear to work, but when it explodes, it explodes.

    Also, the Yugoslav peoples could have used a dose of healthy western European ethnic self-criticism. There is no need to go stupid with it the way goofy white lefties have, where everything is the fault of "white racism." A bit of self-criticism can go a long way to healing ethnic divides, however. It's a lot easier for ethnic hatred to subside if you see the other side as willing to criticize itself, as willing to admit to historical wrongs, and as willing to make efforts to right them. Of course, this needs to be a two-way street, since no people are ever wholly guilty or wholly innocent. There isn't necessarily a perfect solution to ethnic problems, but anything that can lessen ethnic hatred is probably worth it, and a far wiser plan than consciously sharpening ethnic divisions.
    , @Antiwar7
    The "Yugoslav" idea did not start with Serbs. It was primarily Croat intellectuals at first:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_Yugoslavia#Origins_of_the_idea

    That said, I agree it was a mistake to form it. The cultural backgrounds and aspirations of its various inhabitants were too different.
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  53. denovo says:

    Thank you for the article, Saker! I would like to add three things if I may:
    1) After living in North America for over 20 years I have seen first hand almost genetic animosity towards the Russians and the Chinese. There is nothing that Russians and Chinese can do to change it.
    Serbs in Anglosaxon/German eyes are “little Russians” a nation that since Roman times never accepted vassal position. This will make them “bad guys” no matter what.
    2) Unlike Russians who have strong military, huge landmass and significant population the Serbs are too vulnerable due to weak military, lack of financial resources, less-than-favourable geo-strategic position (nato counties on all sides) and lack of powerful allies (Russians do help however understandably Russians put Russia as their main priority). All of this puts Serbia and its leadership in a very precarious position.
    3) Second World War fascists viciously bombed Belgrade, made sure the main library is totally destroyed and later made continued effort to rob the Serbian nation of it cultural treasures (http://orthodoxhistory.info/restoring-the-historical-truth/the-wests-long-war-against-serbia/) during WW2. NATO fascists in the 90ies dropped more bombs on Serbia than on On Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan combined. Not to mention depleted uranium which contaminated Serbian soil forever and raised cancer levels to twice the EU average. SERBIAN ENEMIES WOULD NOT HESITATE TO DROP A NUCLEAR BOMB ON SERBIA if they calculate they would be able to get away with that (and most likely they would, who would punish them if they did? Russia? Again, Russian leadership’s main goal is to protect Russian citizens, not the Serbs). If all (or most) of it is true one should not judge Serbian leadership too harshly when it comes to extradition of Miloshevic, Mladic and Karadzic. Serbia and its leadership are dealing with rabid beasts and in such situations one can not be too cautious.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Baloney

    Im not sure where you live but most “anglo saxon”, whoever they are, couldnt find serbia on a map and think kosovo is some sort of desert topping. And slavs look like all the other white people. Its not like we can tell you apart by looking.

    What sort of conceit leads serbs to believe nato would waste a nuke on them?
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  54. Parbes says:
    @Philip Owen
    And so, with the keen support of most of the population, Serbia is joining the EU. Odd that. Perhaps they are fed up of nationalism.

    How about letting go of your own UK nationalism and “God Save The Queen” crap first?

    Typical British hypocrite slimebag.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Your inferiority complex is showing.
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  55. @Jim
    Yugoslavia was always a pretend country. It had many different ethnicities but one ethnicity it lacked - it didn't have any Yugoslavs. Such a conglomeration may be held together by force as Tito held Yugoslavia together for a while. But such polities are fundamentally unstable and eventually disintegrate violently.

    The differences between the Yugoslav peoples were not really greater than the differences between the various German peoples in 1871. The difference was Germany came into being as a result of long-term developments in German nationalism, whereas as Yugoslavia was only latterly cobbled together out of long-term developments in Serbian, Croatian and Slovenian nationalism (and much, much later, Macedonian nationalism). Of course, there were plenty of 19th century intellectuals who looked forward to something like a Yugoslavia, but this concept was emotionally distant for most of the people who were eventually to make up that state.

    I blame the communists for the breakup of Yugoslavia. Their approach to legitimate historical grievances between the Yugoslav peoples was to paper over them, blame them on bourgeois interests, and then prohibit any real discussion of them. The attempt to mold Yugoslavs scarcely went beyond sloganeering (“Brotherhood and Unity” – the Yugoslav version of “Diversity is Strength”). Being (mostly) of a mixed Yugoslav background, to me it was a great tragedy that a people who had so much in common came to despise each other so much. The lesson I draw from the Yugoslavia’s breakup is that, as poisonous as ethnic nationalism can be, it’s better to allow uncensored discussion of ethnic issues than to pretend everything is hunky-dory, punishing those voices who’d dispute it. Bottling these issues up can appear to work, but when it explodes, it explodes.

    Also, the Yugoslav peoples could have used a dose of healthy western European ethnic self-criticism. There is no need to go stupid with it the way goofy white lefties have, where everything is the fault of “white racism.” A bit of self-criticism can go a long way to healing ethnic divides, however. It’s a lot easier for ethnic hatred to subside if you see the other side as willing to criticize itself, as willing to admit to historical wrongs, and as willing to make efforts to right them. Of course, this needs to be a two-way street, since no people are ever wholly guilty or wholly innocent. There isn’t necessarily a perfect solution to ethnic problems, but anything that can lessen ethnic hatred is probably worth it, and a far wiser plan than consciously sharpening ethnic divisions.

    Read More
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  56. @Bayan
    Aren't Albanians the original inhabitants of the area, and Slavs are relatively new comers? Not sure, I could be wrong. But the fact that Albanians are largely Muslim does not make them Syrian refugees. Just like the Christianity of most Slavs does not make the middle eastern.

    The territory that is today Albania was not spared from the mass movement of Slavs, Avars and other peoples into the Balkans over the centuries, although, on linguistic evidence, it wasn’t shaped by these events to the same extent. So the idea that Albanians were some pristine autochthonous group, while Serbs are alien newcomers is a bit of an exaggeration, and really has no place in trying to settle contemporary ethnic issues.

    In Kosovo itself, from the early middle ages on, Serbs were most likely the predominant group. But after the Turkish conquest, large numbers of Serbs fled and Albanians began to arrive. A few hundred years later and Albanian numbers first matched and then vastly exceeded Serb numbers. For the last forty or so years, Albanians have predominated so thoroughly that referring to Kosovo as “Serbian land” is rationally and morally untenable. Unfortunately, for Serbian nationalism, Kosovo is considered some kind of “holy” territory, sort of the way Palestine is for Jews. Needless to say, this complicates efforts to achieve peace in the region.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You can see here: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo ) that the area (north-west Albania included) was overwhelmingly Serbian. The oldest set of actual numerical data is from the early 14th century where we have 98% Serbian vs 2% Albanian households. Clearly, this was always a Serbian land and , in my opinion, they still have every right to reclaim it. You might think that's irrational or immoral but the truth is that they were ethnically cleansed from their own homeland.

    Western Europe will probably have to face similar challenges in the not-too-distant future since they're mass importing high birth-rate hostiles who couldn't integrate even if they wanted to. This (((open-door))) policy will have to be reversed (not just halted) or Europe will face war(s) for survival in their own ancestral lands.

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  57. Parbes says:
    @Philip Owen
    The Illyrians weren't Slavs.

    What overall meaning and purpose do your tendentious comments on this blog have, other than continually reiterating – in a barely disguised, supposedly “sophisticated” manner – how much contempt, hate, and envy you have towards Russians, Serbs and Slavs/East Europeans in general (you know – little “British Empire” cut down to size while still big and major Russia, and all that)?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    You mean that I haven't picked a side? Oh dear. How disturbing.
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  58. Szabolcs says:

    Serbians are not the victims there. They murdered tens of thousends of Hungarian, in the most inhuman way during WWII. The predecesor of Yugoslavia was artificially created by the Entente Powers (Great-Britain, France and the USA) in 1918. It was made up of the territory of different states. Vojvodina (correctly Vajdaság) was part of Hungary for more than a thousand years. Hungarians are the native people in that area. Serbians were settled there by the Habsburg oppressors of Hungary, mainly during the 18th century, as border guards. They were a militia, and they supported the Habsburgs against the Hungarian liberation movememts and during the independence war in 1848-49. Habsburgs were than able to overcome the Hungarians only by the help of Russia, which sent 200.000 soldiers to defeat those who fought for their liberty. That is the why Hungary had to enter WWI. Croatia was also part of the Hungarian Kingdom from around 1100 but was a separate entity, and there was never a nationalist opression against them. Nobles of Croatian origin were among the most powerful barons of Hungary in the Middle Ages, so Croatia was never treated as a colony. After the creation of Yugoslavia, all nations suffered from the Serbian rule and their nationalist oppression. People from other nations were treated as second class citizens. No wonder that every nation took the opportunity to get rid of the Serbian rule after 1990. The only people, who still has to suffer from the Serbian oppression are the native Hungarians living in Vajdaság, who are forced to live as a minority there, because after the Serbians put their dity hands on that territory, they moved there one million of their kind, to ensure their ethnic majority. In 1918, the biggest ethnic group was the Hungarian with 300.000 people, only 200.000 Serbian lived there, and around 170.000 German, who completely disappeared by now. The conclusion is that Serbians should live behind the borders of their own national territory, in the territory of the Serbian Kingdom that existed before 1918. Sorry for my possible gammatical mistakes.

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Vajdasag?
    Mart akkor tele voltung ciganyokkal

    Hat ez igazan sornyu.
    , @Vladimir
    Hey buddy,

    there is demographics of Vojvodina section on Wikipedia. So go peddle your Hungarian majority lies somewhere else.

    As for the WWII, for what you did to Serbs in Vojvodina the whole lot of you should have been expelled, not only the Germans. And speaking of after war reprisals communists killed as many Serbs as they did Hungarians so tough shit. Blame Tito.
    , @Antiwar7
    Of course there were Serbian victims, too. Not even counting WW I, we have this from WW II:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians_in_Serbia#Settlement
    "This region was annexed by Hungary, and it was colonized by new Hungarian settlers, at which time number of Hungarians in the area grew considerably, while in the same time many Serbs were expelled from Bačka. The brutal conduct of the Axis Hungarian occupying forces, including the Hungarian army and Royal Hungarian Gendarmes, has polarized both Hungarian and Serb communities. Under the Axis Hungarian authority, 19,573 people were killed in Bačka, of which the majority of victims were of Serb, Jewish and Romani origin."

    You are a typical 2), as in:
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/kosovo-will-be-liberated/#comment-2112242
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  59. Whoriskey says:
    @The Alarmist
    Who was it that said, "Kill them all and let God sort them out?"

    I believe that dictum belongs to Simon de Montfort. Say what you like about him – he was effective in suppressing the Albigensian heresy

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Arnaud Amalric. I believe Montfort, Earl of Leicester, led the rebellion against Henry III.
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  60. Whoriskey says:
    @aloisius
    When it comes to ex-Yugoslavia, most authors and commentators just try to fit those events into their global agenda and interpret Yugoslav wars through that lens. So if someone sees "Anglo-Zionist empire" as their enemy, whoever was on the opposite side of them was the good guy. Then you´ll have people who are reflexively anti-muslim, who will decide whoever was against Muslims was also the good guy. And also, whoever the MSM was supporting had to be the bad guy. Those attitudes just don´t work very well when trying to explain what happened there.

    I think the first thing to do is to stop trying to fit those wars into any particular overarching global narrative. This was an indigenously motivated conflict. Idealizing Serbs as brave underdog anti-empire fighters is even more ridiculous than demonizing them. They had a huge advantage in the beginning of the war in terms of military strength and used that position of strength to take control of 30% of Croatia and 70% of Bosnia. In doing so, they very thoroughly ethnically cleansed those areas, which weren´t even 50% ethnically Serbian before the war and committed numerous atrocities against Croats and especially against Bosnian Muslims. And this is not about Srebrenica at all, this is about what happened in every town and village Serbian forces captured in Croatia in ´91 and in Bosnia in 92.

    Good point, alas

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    • Troll: Kiza
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  61. I am an extremist, so for me every Kosovo Albaner and every Albaner that is Muslim should be returned to Turkey. Given the power I would purge Europe of Islam entirely.

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    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Given the power, they would purge US from Europe entirely. And incredibly, they are being given that power.
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  62. Antiwar7 says:
    @Alias Anonymous
    To The Saker Serbs are the good guys and Muslims the bad guys.

    To Eric Margolis Muslims are the angels and Serbs the demons.

    Who really is right?

    Eric Margolis’ mother is Albanian. That says it all.

    There are three sets of opinions about the Balkans:

    1) Don’t know, don’t care (the majority).
    2) Have personal or family ties to one of the factions, and are accordingly biased (the vast majority of the remainder).
    3) Knowledgeable and balanced (almost as rare as a unicorn). I’d put Diana Johnstone in this category.

    Most people in category 2) view anyone in 3) as another 2) (and themselves as a 3).

    Margolis is a 2. The Saker is closer to 3 because he saw all those UNPROFOR (UN military) reports. UN civilian staff there were typically 2, and the UN military typically 3.

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    • Replies: @Dissenter
    2) Have personal or family ties to one of the factions, and are accordingly biased (the vast majority of the remainder)....
    The Saker is closer to 3 because he saw all those UNPROFOR (UN military) reports.
     Not so fast, he is most probably a type 2 individual.
    His ancestors, by his own words, great-grandfather maternal line, fought with the Nazis against Soviet Russia, and as I understood from his own words, they settled first in Serbia where most probably were born some of the following generations, including may be his mother; the father who left him was a proletarian Dutch ( hence his deep hatred for bolshevism, communism and everything who differ from her mother´s aristocratic origins... )....Do not forget that he told he was fourth generation Russian emigree....If you add to that his recent recognition of having being an "anti-communist" agent and still being one, and that his most influencing bedhead readings while growing up were Hitler´s "Mein Kampf" and Solzhenitsyn´s bible, you can easily conclude which part of Serbian society he supports...Obviously not the progressive conciliatory one....He supported The Donald all the way during the last elections as if there was no tomorrow, the same they did the remaining far-right Serbian at his blog, of course not the tolerant kind, having the most balanced departed long ago...
    , @anonymous

    1) Don’t know, don’t care (the majority).
     
    Unfortunately that doesn't keep people with rather skimpy knowledge of the area from commenting on it. Others merely engage in invective either against the author or other commenters without ever elaborating why they think they're wrong. People in category 3 are, as you say, rare since the Balkans are an obscure and complicated subject. People in category 2 are most likely to have some knowledge and outnumber the 3's so supply many of the comments in these forums. Looking at a lot of the comments I'd say most of the commenters have gathered their knowledge through osmosis but have not read a single book on the Balkans in their life, let alone 2-3-4 books. The Balkans are a complicated subject and even people there have to sort things out. Fact-free and confused people only spread their confusion when leaving comments above their pay-grade.
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  63. @anonymous
    You do realise that kind of applies to you too, right?

    The "sorting" your kind is destined for... time to piss in your pants man!

    “… time to piss in your pants man!”

    Nah, I’ll piss on my would-be-killer after killing him.

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  64. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah, by that logic we’ll soon gonna see the Roman Empire reclaim what’s rightfully theirs …

    It’s funny how those Albanians materialised out of thin air (apparently every ethnicity has some kind of heritage except for the Albanians) and although always under occupation (except for that one time obviously) managed to hold on to Kosovo.

    And of course there’s no plausible reason that nobody on the Balkans (and I mean nobody) likes the Serbs, they’re angels after all and all the others are devils.

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    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    "Nobody" likes the Serbs? Careful, your blatant racism is showing.
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  65. There is simply no way that Serbs will ever accept the theft of their ancestral land and spiritual cradle by a combination of Albanian gangsters and western air forces.

    Serbs will talk a good game, and they may even be willing to fight for Kosovo, but then what? Part of the reason Kosovo fell to the Albanians in the first place is that no Serbs want to live there. If they wouldn’t move there under Tito, when the government was pouring investment money into the place and Yugoslavs didn’t have a lot of options, they sure as hell aren’t going to live there now. If you strip away the religious significance, Kosovo is basically a poor, landlocked shithole with a nasty climate and mediocre agricultural land. If it weren’t for the EU and US subsidies propping the place up, most of the Albanians would have left anyway, and half the Kosovar population under 40 seems to have already emigrated to Germany.

    At least modern Serbia managed to grab Vojvodina from Hungary, which is far better land than Kosovo. A lot of Serbian Kosovars ended up in Vojvodina, and I’m sure they would never go back.

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  66. Tom57 says:
    @peterAUS
    Well....the "thing" is complicated; it it weren't it would've been solved in some way so far.
    I don't pretend to have even a hint of a solution.
    At the same time I guess I can recognize bad solutions too.

    Balkans is one of those places where everybody likes to take a very brief look at and have a very strong opinion what's been happening and how to address that, even have a solution. Saker is actually better than most.

    There is no "Kosovo" problem by itself. As soon as somebody, in future, is able to change anything there it will affect the rest of Balkans, or will be affected by the rest of Balkans.
    Everything is so interconnected that it boggles the mind. Or not, depending who one is.
    For Ustashe, for example, is actually very simple: Great Croatia as in WW2 plus Dalmatia and Istria.
    Similar for Chetniks, too...........just the other way around.
    Etc.

    The region is inherently unstable; has been for a quite some tome and it will, most likely be for some time. That wouldn't be important if it was somewhere in Africa/Asia, but it IS in Europe and EU that already has plenty of problems without Balkans on top of them. A spark in Balkans, resulting in a proper shooting could make..............a big problem for EU etc.

    I guess you are a Westerner who was there during...."troubles" (bodies in Drina etc).
    That hint about "Berlin in the Nineties among deserters of all nationalities" is interesting. Those fled the thing; you should've spoken with those who came in the thick of it from all over the world, to fight. The opposite types within the same ethnic groups.

    You mentioned rabid nationalism.
    Well...........................some people can't even begin to understand it.
    BUT.........the power of it is very easy to understand.
    Maybe there is nothing to understand at all; you either get it or not. And...who is to say that those who don't understand it are better/smarter/more developed as people/societies?
    Maybe rabid nationalists are in fault, something wrong with them.
    Or......maybe people who don't get nationalism lack something essential within?
    One can get into debate here lasting for a year. Waste of time.

    Accepting some facts when dealing with it isn't waste of time.

    Dictatorship works as long as it works with anything...........
    During Communists it worked all over Eastern Europe, Soviet Union included.
    Well.........not anymore.

    The "soft" dictatorship, is, actually, working as we speak in Balkans, especially in Bosnia. That's obvious.
    This recent sentencing of Mladic and "Croat Six" is perfect example.
    And, of course, it will be more of that sooner or later. That's how The Empire believes it keeps a check on nationalism there. Maybe The Empire will be successful there. Maybe it won't. Maybe more it pushes those types down more explosive they'll get up.
    Examples from WW2 and '90 could point how that could unravel.

    The...haha....problem with Saker and most of people reading/posting here is actually.........funny. In a sort of morbid way.
    They are people who THINK about all that. They have all the data,numbers, percentages, iron logic, science....blah...blah.....
    Nationalists simply FEEL it.

    More the thinkers believe they "won the debate" and "own the argument" more they, actually, get detached from the core issue there.
    And then, when a first round is fired they have that "deer in a light" look.
    Funny, depending of what side of the barrel one is.

    As for technicalities of the "Kosovo" problem, well.....I believe that, should The Empire retreats and, consequently, Russia is able to exert influence in the region.....Serbia, in 6 months, could retake parts of Kosovo important to Serbs and pacify it. Yes...with ethnic cleansing, of course. Yes, with empty space afterwards, if necessary. The point is not to have people living there. The point is NOT to have Albanians living there.

    At the same time, though.......what would happen in Bosnia....and in Macedonia.....if I knew that I would't be posting here. .

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. The problem in Bosnia is that there isn´t a real dictatorship. The EU made all those Nationalists sit all around the table and said: AGREE AMONGST EACH OTHER. But they can´t and they won´t. So the EU comes in and imposes some half baked solution which is neither here nor there. Bosnia is still in limbo.
    Contrast that with the Turcs and Austrians who told everybody that the buck stops here. But in your own community you make your own rules. Everything else is decided by us.
    Tito and his communists were supranational. They were equal opportunity killers. Tshetnik, Ustasha were all the same to them. And that is how they won. Because the vast majority actually wants to live in peace and raise their children in peace. If they have the choice between “democratic” nationalism that will result in chaos or a dictatorship that supplies stability they will choose stability.
    I maintain: unless somebody from outside comes in and imposes order there will never be any development in the Balkans. Who can do it? The Empire of Chaos? No way. They just wanted their camp bondsteel and that is all they achieved.
    The Russians? No way as long as they identify solely with the Serbs.
    The EU? Much to divided itself.
    I am afraid that there is no good future for the moment.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I maintain: unless somebody from outside comes in and imposes order there will never be any development in the Balkans. Who can do it? The Empire of Chaos? No way. They just wanted their camp bondsteel and that is all they achieved.
    The Russians? No way as long as they identify solely with the Serbs.
    The EU? Much to divided itself.
    I am afraid that there is no good future for the moment.
     
    Well....if there was an easy solution to all that we would've already seen it.

    My take is: a man doesn't live by bread alone. Especially in places with a long history of oppression and confrontation. There are elements of pride, self-esteem, feelings of belonging, spiritual needs etc.
    You said, for example:

    These empires including the Turkish empire were much more tolerant that the mini nation states that succeeded them.
     
    Croats and Serbs do remember "the right of the first night" and the "blood tax", though. Among other things, of course.
    As Irish remember "Irish famine", for example.

    Actually, there is no need to go that far into history.
    25 years ago it was enough to have a wrong name and be killed on a spot, let alone "ethnically cleansed" from a land your ancestors had lived for hundreds of years. Longer than US exists as a sovereign state. Or Germany. Such memories don't go away so easy.
    I mean...haha.....if Jews (and the World, apparently) can't forget Holocaust(TM) why any of those three groups in Bosnia should forget their experience? Or Serbs/Albanians in Kosovo for that matter. It was, what, 18 year ago?
    Or it is true that some victims were/are holly and some other are worthless?
    Sounds racist, doesn't it?
    It would be funny if it wasn't as it is. Schizophrenic probably describes it well enough.

    As things go as they apparently do I suspect we'll have a next round of "troubles" in not so distant future.
    How will that unravel there, and in the wider area, I don't know.
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  67. Heros says:

    The Hague is far less of a sham than Nuremburg, where the only real evidence was “confessions” extracted from “Nazis”. It turned out that most Germans charged at Nuremburg had their testicles crushed by communist jews. This is the same kind of torture that that Sakers beloved Chetnicks had been inflicting on their victims for decades, and it likely originates from the same source.

    https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/torture-and-testicle-crushing-at-nuremberg/

    Yet Saker typically pretends that all this started out of no where in 1941 when Hitler tried to conquer the planet and kill all the jews and slavs. The truth is that his beloved Serbians were working with jews and crypto jews to stage false flags, assassinations, and that they eventually murdered the arch duke and got the two world wars that they wanted started.

    Saker, as I recall, grew up in Geneva, and worked for the Swiss Nachrichtendienst (secret police). I don’t know exactly how old he was or what kind of job he had during the ’90′s, but I do know that Switzerland has been dragged into Kosovo as part of KFOR and they have a permanent presence supplying Pathers and their crews (swisscoy). These Swiss soldiers have sealed NATO orders, even though Switzerland is ostensibly neutral. This tragedy happened before Switzerland even joined the the UN, and very few swiss have any idea it even exists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swisscoy

    Saker is involved in all this because he was also working, simultaneously as far as I can tell, as a some kind of intelligence analyst for the US.

    So once again, he bares his dagger and exposes the vendetta he is carrying against the Roman Catholic Croatians and Germans. Switzerland has no dog in his fight, yet by letting people like saker take refuge in Switzerland (as they did Lenin) they have now been dragged into it.

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  68. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @silviosilver
    The territory that is today Albania was not spared from the mass movement of Slavs, Avars and other peoples into the Balkans over the centuries, although, on linguistic evidence, it wasn't shaped by these events to the same extent. So the idea that Albanians were some pristine autochthonous group, while Serbs are alien newcomers is a bit of an exaggeration, and really has no place in trying to settle contemporary ethnic issues.

    In Kosovo itself, from the early middle ages on, Serbs were most likely the predominant group. But after the Turkish conquest, large numbers of Serbs fled and Albanians began to arrive. A few hundred years later and Albanian numbers first matched and then vastly exceeded Serb numbers. For the last forty or so years, Albanians have predominated so thoroughly that referring to Kosovo as "Serbian land" is rationally and morally untenable. Unfortunately, for Serbian nationalism, Kosovo is considered some kind of "holy" territory, sort of the way Palestine is for Jews. Needless to say, this complicates efforts to achieve peace in the region.

    You can see here: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo ) that the area (north-west Albania included) was overwhelmingly Serbian. The oldest set of actual numerical data is from the early 14th century where we have 98% Serbian vs 2% Albanian households. Clearly, this was always a Serbian land and , in my opinion, they still have every right to reclaim it. You might think that’s irrational or immoral but the truth is that they were ethnically cleansed from their own homeland.

    Western Europe will probably have to face similar challenges in the not-too-distant future since they’re mass importing high birth-rate hostiles who couldn’t integrate even if they wanted to. This (((open-door))) policy will have to be reversed (not just halted) or Europe will face war(s) for survival in their own ancestral lands.

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  69. The Regurgitation of Sackofswilly as Ukrainian jailbird is enough good news for one day.

    Monte, Kos, Alb, Mac and Northern Greece await their incorporation into the New Rumelia. Erdo has been recceing for his minor revision of the Treaty of Lausanne, like tearup.

    Bondsteel will fall w/out a shot being fired. Risorgimento Serbia will then be in the finals.

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  70. We had little book at home in our library “Stephan Gospodar Serbskii”. Was one of my favorites. Serbian toughness was never a secret to me. Meanwhile we Soviet people gave up everything that was earned by great sacrifice and blood without being bombed and putting no resistance to traitors. Soviet union great country was destroyed absolutely for nothing and so was Yugoslavia and than Serbia.

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  71. Verami says:
    @peterAUS

    Mladic was attested and handed over to this NATO tormentors by the Serbian authorities. That tells us all we need know about the current colonial status of Serbia and about the comprador nature of the regime in power in Belgrade.
     
    Too harsh, really. They had no choice. Mladic was protected as much as possible. It wasn’t possible to do that anymore.

    For the AngloZionist Empire, this is all about humiliating the nation which dared to defy it. Because make no mistake, that is the true unforgivable sin that the Serbs are guilty of and for which they are now being humiliated: they dared to defy the AngloZionist Empire and they did so alone, without even any meaningful support from Russia. In fact, the Bosnian-Serbs alone dared defying the US, the EU and NATO not only without the support of Russia, but even without the support of the Yugoslav authorities in Belgrade (Slobodan Milosevic imposed sanctions on his Serbian brothers in Bosnia!). In doing so the Bosnian-Serbs showed the world a level of courage which the typical modern European can’t even begin to imagine, nevermind comprehend.
     
    Well, be that as it may, how, then one is to explain the sentencing of those Croats just last week?
    Balkans games, then and now, are a bit more complicated than Saker is trying to explain here.

    First and foremost, this was a case of monumental, mind-blowing hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice. Hypocrisy because the Serbs were given one Commandment “thou shalt not secede” while the Slovenes, Croats, Bosnian Muslims and, later, Albanians were given the exact opposite command: “thou shalt secede” by turning administrative boundaries into national borders. Betrayal because Yugoslavia was founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement but yet all the putatively non-aligned fully aligned themselves to the Empire and against Yugoslavia. And cowardice because nobody, not a single country, had the courage to speak the truth about the history of the WWII genocide of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia while, at the same time, producing tsunamis of crocodile tears about Cambodia, Rwanda and, of course, the obligatory “Holocaust”. Everybody looked away, and those who yesterday had engaged in acts of unspeakable atrocities (Croats and Germans especially) “generously” told their Serbian victims that bygones should be bygones and that history did not matter.
     
    Correct.
    But:
    The most of ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, at least in the beginning, was done by Serbs, especially against Muslims in Eastern Bosnia.
    Funny….actually…...
    Saker always talks about Nazi this/that, , collaborators with Germans this/that, Bandera this/that, “Ukronazis this/that”.
    Well…my friend, the Serb movement in Bosnia in the latest round, at its heart, was Chetnik movement; the guys who sided with Germans in WW2. How did you miss that element here? How about…..”Serbonazis”, perhaps?

    And when finally international law was overtly and viciously violated when the “western democracies” used their airpower to support the terrorists and thugs of the KLA, not a single lawyer or politician had the brains to realize that what died the day the first bomb fell on Serbia was the entire international order created after WWII. It is hard for me to imagine more shameful and disgusting behavior of all the European countries that not only did not defend one of their own, but even enthusiastically assisted the AngloZionists in their vicious and disgraceful war on the Serbian people.
    Truly, that war had it all, every dirty trick was used against the Serbs: numerous false flags attacks, pseudo-genocides, illegal covert operations to arm terrorist groups, the covert delivery of weapons to officially embargoed entities, deliberate attacks against civilians, the use of illegal weapons, the use of officially “demilitarized zones” to hide an entire (fully armed) army corps – you name it: if it is disgusting it was used against the Serbian people. Even deliberate attacks on the otherwise sacrosanct journalistic profession were considered totally normal as long as the journalists were Serbs. As for the Serbs, they were, of course, demonized. Milosevic became the “New Hitler” (along with Saddam Hussein) and those Serbs who took up arms to defend their land and families became genocidal Chetniks.
     
    Agree.

    One of the worst aspects of the war was the absolutely disgraceful behavior of Muslim nations and communities worldwide: they all supported their supposed ‘brethren’ in Bosnia even though the latter were 1) useful idiots for the Empire 2) mostly secular and 3) when religious, of an imported “Saudi wahhabi” kind (just like in Chechnia, by the way). Instead of trying to make sense of what was really taking place, the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide reacted in knee-jerk manner I call “wrong or right – my Ummah!”, even the Iranians fell into that AngloZionist trap.
     
    Agree.

    Muslims worldwide were conned by the Empire only to find themselves in exactly the same situation as the Serbs, only a decade later.
     
    Conned my arse. Not conned at all. Deliberate. Very…deliberate.

    Nowadays the (fictional) “genocide” of Bosnian-Muslims by Serb and, especially, the myth of Srebrenica is still used by the Empire to try to divide Orthodox Christians and Muslim to better rule over them all or, even better, to have them fight each other.
     
    Well…there were ethnic cleansing, concentration camps, mass killings and such. Was that a genocide is a different matter.
    As for that “divide”, man….Why don’t you go and visit Serbs from Srebrenica and speak with them. Ask them what they think about that idiocy of yours.

    a simple and cynical deal made between Milosevic and the Empire: if he agreed to hand over Kosovo he would be allowed to remain in power. Milosevic accepted only to later find himself murdered in the Hague. So much for trusting your future to the Empire…
     
    Agree.

    Imagine for a new minutes that for some reason the Empire collapsed. No more NATO and probably no more EU. Or maybe just a little NATO and just a little EU left in spite of it all. But, more importantly, no Camp Bondsteel. What do you think would happen?
    The ethnically cleansed Krajinas are probably not worth fighting for. If you were Serbian, would you want Croats as your neighbors? How wise would it be to risk your life and family by living in a few small basically indefensible enclaves surrounded by folks who have proven over and over again that, if given the chance, they will try to convert 1/3rd of you, expel another 1/3rd and murder the remaining 1/3rd? Of course many Croats are wonderful and kind people who want nothing to do with that kind of Ustashe politics, but these good Croats made no difference, not in WWII and not in the latest AngloZionist war against the Serbian nation. If I was a Serb I would never contemplate returning to the Krajinas, the risk is simple too big.
     
    Smart.

    The poor Bosnian-Muslims were used as a tool and with time they will inevitably come to the realization that they sided with the wrong party in that war.
     
    Hahahaha…….oh man…..

    Now…the heart of the matter:

    I have met enough Bosnian Serbs to say that these are extremely tough and courageous people and that as soon as NATO collapse, which it will, they will easily be in the position to set the terms of their future coexistence with the Bosnian Muslims and Croats. When that happens I hope that Russia will actively promote her “Chechen example” and put enough pressure on the Bosnian-Serbs so that they act with decency and restraint against their former enemies.
     
    Hahahaha….hahahaha…..oh….my God.......hahahaha....

    What a crackup.

    Considering that there is, alas, an undeniable core of truth in the accusation that the Bosnian-Serbs did commit atrocities against civilians during during the war, even if not anywhere near the numbers claimed by the AngloZionist propaganda, my feeling is that the Bosnian-Serbs will act with restraint and in a honorable way.
     
    No, mate…doesn’t work that way I am afraid.

    There are a …couple…of questions worth discussing here a bit more.
    The very questions, IMHO, why Mladic and Praljak sentencing was timed as it was.

    If the iron grip of The Empire relaxes enough for Serbs to go for Kosovo, why would Croats and Serbs want to stay in Bosnia where Muslims are the dominant group?
    Why Serbs (Republika Srpska) wouldn’t want to join Serbia proper?
    Furthermore, and most likely more important here, why would Croats in Herzeg-Bosna want to stay in Bosnia as the smallest entity and not join Croatia proper?

    And, then, my friend, we are on the square 1 from 1992.
    Think about that a bit. Just a bit.

    THAT would, among other things, definitely affect, in some way, Serbian effort in Kosovo you describe in further text.

    Bottom line, you underestimate complexities of Balkans and, even without superpowers, some other players in that mess there.
    Dangerously underestimate.

    “Well…my friend, the Serb movement in Bosnia in the latest round, at its heart, was Chetnik movement; the guys who sided with Germans in WW2. How did you miss that element here? How about…..”Serbonazis”, perhaps?”

    Do you mean the Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailovic who was posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit by US President Harry S. Truman in 1948?

    The Chetnik leader that the Germans offered 100,000 gold marks reward for, dead or alive?

    The same Chetniks who rescued and sheltered some 500 American airmen until they could be airlifted to safety?

    https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-500-Untold-Greatest-Mission/dp/0451224957

    Draza Mihailovic’s daughter was invited to the US to receive the Legion of Merit award on his behalf in 2005.

    Fifty seven years after 1948 and the US government still believed that Mihailovic was worthy of the award.
    One would think that if there were any evidence to the contrary 57 years would be enough time to find it.

    “LEGION OF MERIT – CHIEF COMMANDER: General Dragoljub Mihailovich distinguished himself in an outstanding manner as Commander-in-Chief of the Yugoslavian Army Forces and later as Minister of War by Organizing and leading important resistance forces against the enemy which occupied Yugoslavia, from December 1941 to December 1944. Through the undaunted efforts of his troops, many United States airmen were rescued and returned safely to friendly control. General Mihailovich and his forces, although lacking adequate supplies, and fighting under extreme hardships, contributed materially to the Allied cause, and were instrumental in obtaining a final Allied victory.”

    - Harry S. Truman, March 29, 1948.

    The Legion of Merit (LOM) is a military award of the United States Armed Forces that is given for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements. The decoration is issued to members of the seven uniformed services of the United States as well as to military and political figures of foreign governments.

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    Do you mean the Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailovic who was posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit by US President Harry S. Truman in 1948?
     
    I do.

    The same person, I presume, one can find here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_White

    Take a look there if you wish.
    Scroll down to "Commanders and leaders", just below Mario Roatta.

    Now, I admit that for Chetniks the main enemy were Communists and they were definitely Serbian nationalists first and foremost.
    Alliance with Germans/Italians was simply means to ends.
    Had Allies invaded Balkans as Churchill wanted once, Chetniks would've switch sides and fought with Brits/Yanks against Communists and Germans.

    Balkans were never a simple place.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Awards from the US government aren’t necessarily something to be proud of.
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  72. Antiwar7 says:
    @Philip Owen
    The Illyrians weren't Slavs.

    The Albanians aren’t Illyrians, though they’d like to think they are, to give themselves a better claim to all the land around there.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    So how far back should a land claim go? When the Roman Empire fell, the Serbs were somewhere in the Pripet marshes. Did the kill all the Illyrians?
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  73. @Parbes
    How about letting go of your own UK nationalism and "God Save The Queen" crap first?

    Typical British hypocrite slimebag.

    Your inferiority complex is showing.

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    Hah hah idiot... You have absolutely ZERO knowledge of me as a person; so you'd be well advised to not make an even greater fool of yourself than you already have, with moronic statements like this.

    What IS showing, is my revulsion at your typical Anglo self-serving hypocrisy and unwarranted superiority complex.

    Keep hating on and denigrating Russia, Serbs, Slavs, Chinese, etc., idiot - even as your truncated, Zio-dominated little Britannia gets mongrelized and Islamized and has less and less left to feel 'superior' about by the day.
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  74. @Parbes
    What overall meaning and purpose do your tendentious comments on this blog have, other than continually reiterating - in a barely disguised, supposedly "sophisticated" manner - how much contempt, hate, and envy you have towards Russians, Serbs and Slavs/East Europeans in general (you know - little "British Empire" cut down to size while still big and major Russia, and all that)?

    You mean that I haven’t picked a side? Oh dear. How disturbing.

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    This comment is probably supposed to have an implied 'deep and cockily smart' meaning (something along the lines of "it's objectively impartial to be reflexively anti-Russian") - but instead it comes across as simply stupid.
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  75. @Antiwar7
    The Albanians aren't Illyrians, though they'd like to think they are, to give themselves a better claim to all the land around there.

    So how far back should a land claim go? When the Roman Empire fell, the Serbs were somewhere in the Pripet marshes. Did the kill all the Illyrians?

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    What are you talking about? I'm not making any "land claim[s]". I'm merely pointing out that the theory that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is not generally accepted by historians, and moreover this claim has been used by Albanian nationalists to make their own "land claims".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_nationalism
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  76. Obviously Putin’s suporters are running out of arguments! Flynn’s testimony does, of course, change things dramatically. The article is the author’s usual tactic of throw-away remarks and buzz words in all directions thereby bogging the discussion down in a myriad of minor details. Lets’ stick to the bit about Putin. That will certainly be the author’s main point. Belarus and Ukraine are something or other to Russia. Montenegro and Bosnia (but not Kosovo or Macedonia!) are the same something or other to Serbia. He doesn’t tell us what that something or other is. Nor does he tell us what Russia means to Ukraine and Belarus or Serbia to Montenegro and Bosnia. All we can say is that Ukraine and Belarus became part of the Russian Empire in the late 18th century, broke away after the Revolution, were re-conquered by the Bolsheviks and became independent at the same time as the Russian Federation when the Soviet Union collapsed. Had Ukraine and Belarus wished to remain joined to the Russian Federation I can’t see who could have stopped them from doing so. Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro became independent of the Ottoman Empire (and, in Bosnia’s case, Austria-Hungary) in several stages in the period between the Congress of Vienna and WWI, were joined together as Yugoslavia (or Jugoslavia, as it was written in the early days), which fell under communist rule after WWII and broke up as the European communist regimes collapsed. Had they wished to stay together, I can’t see who could have stopped them from doing so. Serbia acquired Kosovo from Turkey in 1913. It has never been occupied by Albania. Albanians constitute 92% of the population. According to a recent book, splitting Kosovo off from Serbia was a CIA scam intended to drive a wedge between Serbia and the EU. As we saw in Catalonia, if Serbia had been an EU Member State, independence without Serbia’s consent would have been impossible. So what doe these countries mean to each other?

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    • Replies: @Dissenter
    Totally agree, especially in:

    "The article is the author’s usual tactic of throw-away remarks and buzz words in all directions thereby bogging the discussion down in a myriad of minor details."

    In that he is yes an especialist...
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  77. geokat62 says:

    And when finally international law was overtly and viciously violated when the “western democracies” used their airpower to support the terrorists and thugs of the KLA, not a single lawyer or politician had the brains to realize that what died the day the first bomb fell on Serbia was the entire international order created after WWII.

    Au contraire! You mustn’t be aware of the Balkan Action Committee (BAC)… neither was I until I read Prof. Stephen Sniegoski’s The Transparent Cabal. In it, the good professor brings to light the existence of the BAC and the composition of its members:

    Members of the interventionist Balkan Action Committee, which advocated NATO ground troops for Kosovo, included such prominent neoconservative mainstays as Richard Perle, Max M. Kampelman, Morton Abramowitz, and Paul Wolfowitz. Other neoconservative proponents of a tougher war included Eliot Cohen, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, and Norman Podhoretz.

    While it is rather surprising to find our favourite neoconservatives behind an organization pushing for war against Serbia, Prof. Sniegoski explains their motivation:

    The attack on Serbia, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons, provided the intellectual groundwork for the attack on Iraq, the neocons’ fundamental target, since it set the precedent of violating international law’s prohibition against initiating offensive wars.

    As far as this statement by the Saker is concerned:

    Yes, all the anti-Muslim GWOT-wars after 9/11 have their methodological roots in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. There will come a day when Muslims will come to understand that fact and they will then reevaluate what they thought they knew about the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo.

    I would tend to agree to the extant people familiarize themselves with the facts put forth by Prof. Sniegoski regarding the BAC, including its objectives and its members.

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    Members of the interventionist Balkan Action Committee, which advocated NATO ground troops for Kosovo, included such prominent neoconservative mainstays as Richard Perle, Max M. Kampelman, Morton Abramowitz, and Paul Wolfowitz. Other neoconservative proponents of a tougher war included Eliot Cohen, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, and Norman Podhoretz.
     
    Every. Single. Time.

    One has to wonder how would the world look like without the Jews.
    , @Kiza
    Thanks geo, I have been trying to explain the same for years now. What happened to Yugoslavia would not have happened without the ZioWahhabis, although the stupid local hates, exhibited so well in the trollish bull of so many comments here, helped the war along too much. In other words, the war in Yugoslavia would not have happened without ZioWahhabis playing on ethnic and religious conflict, but the war would have still failed to develop without the local hates.

    Another thing that I have been pointing out since I can remember, that Serbia is a dress-rehearsal for the big game (as in hunting) - Russia is now coming through. The same as when the Germanic Nazis started their Drang nach Osten for Lebensraum and resources, all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World.

    I can only hope that if we win this time again, we will be much less forgiving towards those who customarily become victims once they lose the wars they eagerly participate in.
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  78. Parbes says:
    @Philip Owen
    Your inferiority complex is showing.

    Hah hah idiot… You have absolutely ZERO knowledge of me as a person; so you’d be well advised to not make an even greater fool of yourself than you already have, with moronic statements like this.

    What IS showing, is my revulsion at your typical Anglo self-serving hypocrisy and unwarranted superiority complex.

    Keep hating on and denigrating Russia, Serbs, Slavs, Chinese, etc., idiot – even as your truncated, Zio-dominated little Britannia gets mongrelized and Islamized and has less and less left to feel ‘superior’ about by the day.

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    • Agree: Cyrano
    • LOL: chris
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    You have real problems. Far right racialism is a mental infection in Eastern Europe. Seek a cure.
    , @RadicalCenter
    I must agree that the UK and especially England are becoming a freeking joke, and a filthy, intimidating, alien place to live _ which may even become officially Islamic in the not too distant future, God help them. But my USA is inviting in our own hostile overclass (Chinese and perhaps Indians) and at the same time our own backwards disloyal underclass (Mexicans). So I can’t throw stones as much as I would like.
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  79. Z-man says:

    The top quarter of Kosovo should go back to Serbia with Mitrovica or however you spell it being the border town, like Jerusalem, lol!

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  80. Parbes says:
    @Philip Owen
    You mean that I haven't picked a side? Oh dear. How disturbing.

    This comment is probably supposed to have an implied ‘deep and cockily smart’ meaning (something along the lines of “it’s objectively impartial to be reflexively anti-Russian”) – but instead it comes across as simply stupid.

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  81. Everything what Saker have written is absolute truth.

    Some clarifications.
    Serbs and Croats are genetically the same people. It was one Slavic tribe moving from areas of today’s Bulgaria. The tribe did ask permission from Hungarian king, and they got it. It was Pravoslav tribe.
    The areas they settled was no mans land.
    Bosnians were another different Slavic tribe. Who were allowed to settle, but they have settled on Hungarian territory under the control of Hungarian prince. the territory was sparsely populated.
    Bosnians had a funny dresses.
    Later part of Serbs converted to Catholicism and called themselves Croats.
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia but many wandering Gypsies have settled there.
    (Albanians are Gypsies also.)
    Trouble with Gypsies is that they do not like to work, and they totally hate farming.
    So Kosovo in the end has no future.
    Croatian Serbs are more innovative that Serbian Serbs.

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    • Replies: @L.K
    Albanians are not Gypsies. Stop making things up.
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  82. @Parbes
    Hah hah idiot... You have absolutely ZERO knowledge of me as a person; so you'd be well advised to not make an even greater fool of yourself than you already have, with moronic statements like this.

    What IS showing, is my revulsion at your typical Anglo self-serving hypocrisy and unwarranted superiority complex.

    Keep hating on and denigrating Russia, Serbs, Slavs, Chinese, etc., idiot - even as your truncated, Zio-dominated little Britannia gets mongrelized and Islamized and has less and less left to feel 'superior' about by the day.

    You have real problems. Far right racialism is a mental infection in Eastern Europe. Seek a cure.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    Switching to Sorosian ad hominems when you cannot answer an argument, eh? Well, I guess with a character like you, it figures...

    What is actually mentally sick, is neocon Russophobia and trying to wage so-called "Great Game" global hegemony wars against Russians, Chinese, Serbs etc. thousands of miles away from your shores, while your own small country gets negrified and Islamized by the day and gangs of Pakistanis rape and whore-ify your young girls in your own cities and towns.

    "Britannia that rules the waves" is OVER, man. Get used to it and deal with it. You're a small, ailing country with many serious problems now. Hiding under the U.S. skirt isn't going to change that.
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  83. Dissenter says:
    @Antiwar7
    Eric Margolis' mother is Albanian. That says it all.

    There are three sets of opinions about the Balkans:

    1) Don't know, don't care (the majority).
    2) Have personal or family ties to one of the factions, and are accordingly biased (the vast majority of the remainder).
    3) Knowledgeable and balanced (almost as rare as a unicorn). I'd put Diana Johnstone in this category.

    Most people in category 2) view anyone in 3) as another 2) (and themselves as a 3).

    Margolis is a 2. The Saker is closer to 3 because he saw all those UNPROFOR (UN military) reports. UN civilian staff there were typically 2, and the UN military typically 3.

    2) Have personal or family ties to one of the factions, and are accordingly biased (the vast majority of the remainder)….
    The Saker is closer to 3 because he saw all those UNPROFOR (UN military) reports.

    Not so fast, he is most probably a type 2 individual.
    His ancestors, by his own words, great-grandfather maternal line, fought with the Nazis against Soviet Russia, and as I understood from his own words, they settled first in Serbia where most probably were born some of the following generations, including may be his mother; the father who left him was a proletarian Dutch ( hence his deep hatred for bolshevism, communism and everything who differ from her mother´s aristocratic origins… )….Do not forget that he told he was fourth generation Russian emigree….If you add to that his recent recognition of having being an “anti-communist” agent and still being one, and that his most influencing bedhead readings while growing up were Hitler´s “Mein Kampf” and Solzhenitsyn´s bible, you can easily conclude which part of Serbian society he supports…Obviously not the progressive conciliatory one….He supported The Donald all the way during the last elections as if there was no tomorrow, the same they did the remaining far-right Serbian at his blog, of course not the tolerant kind, having the most balanced departed long ago…

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    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    Yes, so he may have reasons for pro-Serb bias. But during the early 90's, he was still pro-NATO and anti-communist. So it's a bit of a wash.

    But it is true that Tudjman (the Croatian president then) and Izetbegovic (the leader of the Bosnian govt then) were committed nationalists, not interested in compromise or holding back in any way, and in Izetbegovic's case it wasn't until after the Bosnian war that this was "recognized" by the Western press.

    And as for Kosovo, one could not find a worse or more evil group than the KLA to support on the Albanian side. They had a regular history of assassinating Kosovo Albanians who "cooperated" with the local Serbs (e.g., didn't quit their jobs). See, for example, this item about the KLA's leader: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/students/pop/articles/062599kosovo-kla-purge.html

    "Violence has long swirled around Thaci, whose nom de guerre was Snake.

    In June 1997, in an incident that many in the underground guerrilla movement found ominous, a Kosovar Albanian reporter who had close links with the movement was found dead in his apartment in Tirana, his face disfigured by repeated stabbings with a screwdriver and the butt end of a broken bottle.

    The reporter, Ali Uka, was supportive of the rebel movement, but he was also independent enough to criticize it. At the time of his death, he was sharing his apartment with Thaci."
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  84. @Szabolcs
    Serbians are not the victims there. They murdered tens of thousends of Hungarian, in the most inhuman way during WWII. The predecesor of Yugoslavia was artificially created by the Entente Powers (Great-Britain, France and the USA) in 1918. It was made up of the territory of different states. Vojvodina (correctly Vajdaság) was part of Hungary for more than a thousand years. Hungarians are the native people in that area. Serbians were settled there by the Habsburg oppressors of Hungary, mainly during the 18th century, as border guards. They were a militia, and they supported the Habsburgs against the Hungarian liberation movememts and during the independence war in 1848-49. Habsburgs were than able to overcome the Hungarians only by the help of Russia, which sent 200.000 soldiers to defeat those who fought for their liberty. That is the why Hungary had to enter WWI. Croatia was also part of the Hungarian Kingdom from around 1100 but was a separate entity, and there was never a nationalist opression against them. Nobles of Croatian origin were among the most powerful barons of Hungary in the Middle Ages, so Croatia was never treated as a colony. After the creation of Yugoslavia, all nations suffered from the Serbian rule and their nationalist oppression. People from other nations were treated as second class citizens. No wonder that every nation took the opportunity to get rid of the Serbian rule after 1990. The only people, who still has to suffer from the Serbian oppression are the native Hungarians living in Vajdaság, who are forced to live as a minority there, because after the Serbians put their dity hands on that territory, they moved there one million of their kind, to ensure their ethnic majority. In 1918, the biggest ethnic group was the Hungarian with 300.000 people, only 200.000 Serbian lived there, and around 170.000 German, who completely disappeared by now. The conclusion is that Serbians should live behind the borders of their own national territory, in the territory of the Serbian Kingdom that existed before 1918. Sorry for my possible gammatical mistakes.

    Vajdasag?
    Mart akkor tele voltung ciganyokkal

    Hat ez igazan sornyu.

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  85. Dissenter says:
    @Michael Kenny
    Obviously Putin's suporters are running out of arguments! Flynn's testimony does, of course, change things dramatically. The article is the author's usual tactic of throw-away remarks and buzz words in all directions thereby bogging the discussion down in a myriad of minor details. Lets’ stick to the bit about Putin. That will certainly be the author’s main point. Belarus and Ukraine are something or other to Russia. Montenegro and Bosnia (but not Kosovo or Macedonia!) are the same something or other to Serbia. He doesn’t tell us what that something or other is. Nor does he tell us what Russia means to Ukraine and Belarus or Serbia to Montenegro and Bosnia. All we can say is that Ukraine and Belarus became part of the Russian Empire in the late 18th century, broke away after the Revolution, were re-conquered by the Bolsheviks and became independent at the same time as the Russian Federation when the Soviet Union collapsed. Had Ukraine and Belarus wished to remain joined to the Russian Federation I can’t see who could have stopped them from doing so. Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro became independent of the Ottoman Empire (and, in Bosnia’s case, Austria-Hungary) in several stages in the period between the Congress of Vienna and WWI, were joined together as Yugoslavia (or Jugoslavia, as it was written in the early days), which fell under communist rule after WWII and broke up as the European communist regimes collapsed. Had they wished to stay together, I can’t see who could have stopped them from doing so. Serbia acquired Kosovo from Turkey in 1913. It has never been occupied by Albania. Albanians constitute 92% of the population. According to a recent book, splitting Kosovo off from Serbia was a CIA scam intended to drive a wedge between Serbia and the EU. As we saw in Catalonia, if Serbia had been an EU Member State, independence without Serbia’s consent would have been impossible. So what doe these countries mean to each other?

    Totally agree, especially in:

    “The article is the author’s usual tactic of throw-away remarks and buzz words in all directions thereby bogging the discussion down in a myriad of minor details.”

    In that he is yes an especialist…

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  86. Vladimir says:
    @Szabolcs
    Serbians are not the victims there. They murdered tens of thousends of Hungarian, in the most inhuman way during WWII. The predecesor of Yugoslavia was artificially created by the Entente Powers (Great-Britain, France and the USA) in 1918. It was made up of the territory of different states. Vojvodina (correctly Vajdaság) was part of Hungary for more than a thousand years. Hungarians are the native people in that area. Serbians were settled there by the Habsburg oppressors of Hungary, mainly during the 18th century, as border guards. They were a militia, and they supported the Habsburgs against the Hungarian liberation movememts and during the independence war in 1848-49. Habsburgs were than able to overcome the Hungarians only by the help of Russia, which sent 200.000 soldiers to defeat those who fought for their liberty. That is the why Hungary had to enter WWI. Croatia was also part of the Hungarian Kingdom from around 1100 but was a separate entity, and there was never a nationalist opression against them. Nobles of Croatian origin were among the most powerful barons of Hungary in the Middle Ages, so Croatia was never treated as a colony. After the creation of Yugoslavia, all nations suffered from the Serbian rule and their nationalist oppression. People from other nations were treated as second class citizens. No wonder that every nation took the opportunity to get rid of the Serbian rule after 1990. The only people, who still has to suffer from the Serbian oppression are the native Hungarians living in Vajdaság, who are forced to live as a minority there, because after the Serbians put their dity hands on that territory, they moved there one million of their kind, to ensure their ethnic majority. In 1918, the biggest ethnic group was the Hungarian with 300.000 people, only 200.000 Serbian lived there, and around 170.000 German, who completely disappeared by now. The conclusion is that Serbians should live behind the borders of their own national territory, in the territory of the Serbian Kingdom that existed before 1918. Sorry for my possible gammatical mistakes.

    Hey buddy,

    there is demographics of Vojvodina section on Wikipedia. So go peddle your Hungarian majority lies somewhere else.

    As for the WWII, for what you did to Serbs in Vojvodina the whole lot of you should have been expelled, not only the Germans. And speaking of after war reprisals communists killed as many Serbs as they did Hungarians so tough shit. Blame Tito.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Szabolcs
    Wikipedia if you please:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1cs-Bodrog_County

    Bács-Bodrog County:
    In 1910, the county had a population of 812,385 people and was composed of the following linguistic communities:

    Hungarian: 363,518 (44,8%)
    German: 190,697 (23,5%)
    Serbian: 145,063 (17,9%)
    Slovak: 30,137 (3,7%)
    Ruthenian: 10,760 (1,3%)
    Croatian: 1,279 (0,2%)
    Romanian: 386 (0,0%)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront%C3%A1l_County

    In 1910, the county had a population of 615,151 people and was composed of the following linguistic communities:

    Serbian: 199,750 (32,5%)
    German: 165,779 (26,9%)
    Hungarian: 128,405 (20,9%)
    Romanian: 86,937 (14,1%)
    Slovak: 16,143 (2,6%)
    Croatian: 4,203 (0,7%)
    Ruthenian: 11 (0,1%)
    Other or unknown: 13,923 (2,3%)

    Total: 490,000 Hungarian, 355,000 German, 344,000 Serbian in 1910.
    Serbians were absolute minority.

    And immigration does NEVER justify for territory theft. You Serbians and Romanians are no more than petty thieves from the deep Balkans.

    Tito's thugs committed genocide agains the Hungarians just as Milosevic agains the Albanians. I have more respect for the people of Skanderbeg, than the people of Đurađ Branković, the traitor of the battle of Kosovo (1448).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_(1448)
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  87. peterAUS says:
    @Verami
    "Well…my friend, the Serb movement in Bosnia in the latest round, at its heart, was Chetnik movement; the guys who sided with Germans in WW2. How did you miss that element here? How about…..”Serbonazis”, perhaps?"


    Do you mean the Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailovic who was posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit by US President Harry S. Truman in 1948?

    The Chetnik leader that the Germans offered 100,000 gold marks reward for, dead or alive?

    The same Chetniks who rescued and sheltered some 500 American airmen until they could be airlifted to safety?
    https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-500-Untold-Greatest-Mission/dp/0451224957


    Draza Mihailovic's daughter was invited to the US to receive the Legion of Merit award on his behalf in 2005.

    Fifty seven years after 1948 and the US government still believed that Mihailovic was worthy of the award.
    One would think that if there were any evidence to the contrary 57 years would be enough time to find it.


    "LEGION OF MERIT - CHIEF COMMANDER: General Dragoljub Mihailovich distinguished himself in an outstanding manner as Commander-in-Chief of the Yugoslavian Army Forces and later as Minister of War by Organizing and leading important resistance forces against the enemy which occupied Yugoslavia, from December 1941 to December 1944. Through the undaunted efforts of his troops, many United States airmen were rescued and returned safely to friendly control. General Mihailovich and his forces, although lacking adequate supplies, and fighting under extreme hardships, contributed materially to the Allied cause, and were instrumental in obtaining a final Allied victory."

    - Harry S. Truman, March 29, 1948.


    The Legion of Merit (LOM) is a military award of the United States Armed Forces that is given for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements. The decoration is issued to members of the seven uniformed services of the United States as well as to military and political figures of foreign governments.

    Do you mean the Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailovic who was posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit by US President Harry S. Truman in 1948?

    I do.

    The same person, I presume, one can find here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_White

    Take a look there if you wish.
    Scroll down to “Commanders and leaders”, just below Mario Roatta.

    Now, I admit that for Chetniks the main enemy were Communists and they were definitely Serbian nationalists first and foremost.
    Alliance with Germans/Italians was simply means to ends.
    Had Allies invaded Balkans as Churchill wanted once, Chetniks would’ve switch sides and fought with Brits/Yanks against Communists and Germans.

    Balkans were never a simple place.

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    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    You seem to know a fair bit about the area, through your marriage. But the story that "the" WW II Chetniks (there was never a unified effective command) were pro-Nazi is not true. That was the Tito line, but he was hardly a disinterested party. See for example:

    [By a British special forces soldier behind enemy lines in WW II, based on his personal recollections and later declassified British documents:]
    https://www.amazon.com/Rape-Serbia-British-Titos-1943-1944/dp/0151959102
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  88. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Antiwar7
    Eric Margolis' mother is Albanian. That says it all.

    There are three sets of opinions about the Balkans:

    1) Don't know, don't care (the majority).
    2) Have personal or family ties to one of the factions, and are accordingly biased (the vast majority of the remainder).
    3) Knowledgeable and balanced (almost as rare as a unicorn). I'd put Diana Johnstone in this category.

    Most people in category 2) view anyone in 3) as another 2) (and themselves as a 3).

    Margolis is a 2. The Saker is closer to 3 because he saw all those UNPROFOR (UN military) reports. UN civilian staff there were typically 2, and the UN military typically 3.

    1) Don’t know, don’t care (the majority).

    Unfortunately that doesn’t keep people with rather skimpy knowledge of the area from commenting on it. Others merely engage in invective either against the author or other commenters without ever elaborating why they think they’re wrong. People in category 3 are, as you say, rare since the Balkans are an obscure and complicated subject. People in category 2 are most likely to have some knowledge and outnumber the 3′s so supply many of the comments in these forums. Looking at a lot of the comments I’d say most of the commenters have gathered their knowledge through osmosis but have not read a single book on the Balkans in their life, let alone 2-3-4 books. The Balkans are a complicated subject and even people there have to sort things out. Fact-free and confused people only spread their confusion when leaving comments above their pay-grade.

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  89. peterAUS says:
    @Tom57
    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. The problem in Bosnia is that there isn´t a real dictatorship. The EU made all those Nationalists sit all around the table and said: AGREE AMONGST EACH OTHER. But they can´t and they won´t. So the EU comes in and imposes some half baked solution which is neither here nor there. Bosnia is still in limbo.
    Contrast that with the Turcs and Austrians who told everybody that the buck stops here. But in your own community you make your own rules. Everything else is decided by us.
    Tito and his communists were supranational. They were equal opportunity killers. Tshetnik, Ustasha were all the same to them. And that is how they won. Because the vast majority actually wants to live in peace and raise their children in peace. If they have the choice between "democratic" nationalism that will result in chaos or a dictatorship that supplies stability they will choose stability.
    I maintain: unless somebody from outside comes in and imposes order there will never be any development in the Balkans. Who can do it? The Empire of Chaos? No way. They just wanted their camp bondsteel and that is all they achieved.
    The Russians? No way as long as they identify solely with the Serbs.
    The EU? Much to divided itself.
    I am afraid that there is no good future for the moment.

    I maintain: unless somebody from outside comes in and imposes order there will never be any development in the Balkans. Who can do it? The Empire of Chaos? No way. They just wanted their camp bondsteel and that is all they achieved.
    The Russians? No way as long as they identify solely with the Serbs.
    The EU? Much to divided itself.
    I am afraid that there is no good future for the moment.

    Well….if there was an easy solution to all that we would’ve already seen it.

    My take is: a man doesn’t live by bread alone. Especially in places with a long history of oppression and confrontation. There are elements of pride, self-esteem, feelings of belonging, spiritual needs etc.
    You said, for example:

    These empires including the Turkish empire were much more tolerant that the mini nation states that succeeded them.

    Croats and Serbs do remember “the right of the first night” and the “blood tax”, though. Among other things, of course.
    As Irish remember “Irish famine”, for example.

    Actually, there is no need to go that far into history.
    25 years ago it was enough to have a wrong name and be killed on a spot, let alone “ethnically cleansed” from a land your ancestors had lived for hundreds of years. Longer than US exists as a sovereign state. Or Germany. Such memories don’t go away so easy.
    I mean…haha…..if Jews (and the World, apparently) can’t forget Holocaust(TM) why any of those three groups in Bosnia should forget their experience? Or Serbs/Albanians in Kosovo for that matter. It was, what, 18 year ago?
    Or it is true that some victims were/are holly and some other are worthless?
    Sounds racist, doesn’t it?
    It would be funny if it wasn’t as it is. Schizophrenic probably describes it well enough.

    As things go as they apparently do I suspect we’ll have a next round of “troubles” in not so distant future.
    How will that unravel there, and in the wider area, I don’t know.

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    • Replies: @Lincoln Blockface Squarebeard III
    Man is not as rational as man (and economists) like to think. There is always an element of irrational chaos in human affairs and solutions to complex problems, like in the Balkans, are never perfect or permanent.
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  90. Szabolcs says:
    @Vladimir
    Hey buddy,

    there is demographics of Vojvodina section on Wikipedia. So go peddle your Hungarian majority lies somewhere else.

    As for the WWII, for what you did to Serbs in Vojvodina the whole lot of you should have been expelled, not only the Germans. And speaking of after war reprisals communists killed as many Serbs as they did Hungarians so tough shit. Blame Tito.

    Wikipedia if you please:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1cs-Bodrog_County

    Bács-Bodrog County:
    In 1910, the county had a population of 812,385 people and was composed of the following linguistic communities:

    Hungarian: 363,518 (44,8%)
    German: 190,697 (23,5%)
    Serbian: 145,063 (17,9%)
    Slovak: 30,137 (3,7%)
    Ruthenian: 10,760 (1,3%)
    Croatian: 1,279 (0,2%)
    Romanian: 386 (0,0%)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront%C3%A1l_County

    In 1910, the county had a population of 615,151 people and was composed of the following linguistic communities:

    Serbian: 199,750 (32,5%)
    German: 165,779 (26,9%)
    Hungarian: 128,405 (20,9%)
    Romanian: 86,937 (14,1%)
    Slovak: 16,143 (2,6%)
    Croatian: 4,203 (0,7%)
    Ruthenian: 11 (0,1%)
    Other or unknown: 13,923 (2,3%)

    Total: 490,000 Hungarian, 355,000 German, 344,000 Serbian in 1910.
    Serbians were absolute minority.

    And immigration does NEVER justify for territory theft. You Serbians and Romanians are no more than petty thieves from the deep Balkans.

    Tito’s thugs committed genocide agains the Hungarians just as Milosevic agains the Albanians. I have more respect for the people of Skanderbeg, than the people of Đurađ Branković, the traitor of the battle of Kosovo (1448).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_(1448)

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    • Replies: @Dovla
    hey buddy,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Vojvodina

    Since first recorded census in 1787 you weren't majority, you weren't even plurality.

    Anyways I wouldn't go back to middle ages, I don't see how personal feud between Djuradj Brankovic and Janos Hunyadi is of relevance today. Or did you want to mention that as soon as the Battle of Kosovo in 1389. ended Hungarians immediately invaded from the north as Serbia was without an army and without a ruler.

    As for the Tito's thugs, one of his top two commanders was ethnic Hungarian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosta_Na%C4%91, so you can blame him too. And speaking of genocide of Albanians, lol. When Serbs had control of Kosovo, Albanians multiplied, settled and progressed. Unfortanately, Slobodan Milosevic was no Todor Zhivkov. When Albanians had control there were no Serbs remaining. Same in Croatia. And don't get me started on position of Serbs in Albania.

    I'll be using different handle, someone is using Vladimir also.
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  91. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @geokat62

    And when finally international law was overtly and viciously violated when the “western democracies” used their airpower to support the terrorists and thugs of the KLA, not a single lawyer or politician had the brains to realize that what died the day the first bomb fell on Serbia was the entire international order created after WWII.
     
    Au contraire! You mustn't be aware of the Balkan Action Committee (BAC)... neither was I until I read Prof. Stephen Sniegoski's The Transparent Cabal. In it, the good professor brings to light the existence of the BAC and the composition of its members:

    Members of the interventionist Balkan Action Committee, which advocated NATO ground troops for Kosovo, included such prominent neoconservative mainstays as Richard Perle, Max M. Kampelman, Morton Abramowitz, and Paul Wolfowitz. Other neoconservative proponents of a tougher war included Eliot Cohen, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, and Norman Podhoretz.
     
    While it is rather surprising to find our favourite neoconservatives behind an organization pushing for war against Serbia, Prof. Sniegoski explains their motivation:

    The attack on Serbia, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons, provided the intellectual groundwork for the attack on Iraq, the neocons’ fundamental target, since it set the precedent of violating international law’s prohibition against initiating offensive wars.
     
    As far as this statement by the Saker is concerned:

    Yes, all the anti-Muslim GWOT-wars after 9/11 have their methodological roots in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. There will come a day when Muslims will come to understand that fact and they will then reevaluate what they thought they knew about the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo.
     
    I would tend to agree to the extant people familiarize themselves with the facts put forth by Prof. Sniegoski regarding the BAC, including its objectives and its members.

    Members of the interventionist Balkan Action Committee, which advocated NATO ground troops for Kosovo, included such prominent neoconservative mainstays as Richard Perle, Max M. Kampelman, Morton Abramowitz, and Paul Wolfowitz. Other neoconservative proponents of a tougher war included Eliot Cohen, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, and Norman Podhoretz.

    Every. Single. Time.

    One has to wonder how would the world look like without the Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    One has to wonder how would the world look like without the Jews.
     
    I stated a fact. By all means try and refute it.
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  92. Rado Mir says:
    @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    To me it was enough to read this part ”… a strategy to create an ethnically pure Greater Serbia, purged of Catholics and Muslims…” to understand what kind of ”hardened war correspondent” he is. Nowadays, when we have (of Serbs) ethnically totally cleansed Kosovo, Croatia and parts of Bosnia and Hercegovina, he steel dares to tweet same old phrase: ” Catch that thief…”. Knowing, Serbia is absolutely most multiethnic society in this part of Europe. And also knowing such a fact that the great part of bosnian muslims then escaped war time tragedy seeking place of refuge guess where? In that (Great) Serbia, exactly. Saker (The Great) knows very best all of that ”at first hand”, because he was right there in that time and ”at the source of the information”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If he was so great why is his blog an echo chamber?

    Its easy to think youre right all the time when you enforce the absence of criticism. It is pretty clear that this fanciful piece of nationalist nonsense is evidence that his ability to think critically has been comprimised by too may yes-men.
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  93. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @denovo
    Thank you for the article, Saker! I would like to add three things if I may:
    1) After living in North America for over 20 years I have seen first hand almost genetic animosity towards the Russians and the Chinese. There is nothing that Russians and Chinese can do to change it.
    Serbs in Anglosaxon/German eyes are "little Russians" a nation that since Roman times never accepted vassal position. This will make them "bad guys" no matter what.
    2) Unlike Russians who have strong military, huge landmass and significant population the Serbs are too vulnerable due to weak military, lack of financial resources, less-than-favourable geo-strategic position (nato counties on all sides) and lack of powerful allies (Russians do help however understandably Russians put Russia as their main priority). All of this puts Serbia and its leadership in a very precarious position.
    3) Second World War fascists viciously bombed Belgrade, made sure the main library is totally destroyed and later made continued effort to rob the Serbian nation of it cultural treasures (http://orthodoxhistory.info/restoring-the-historical-truth/the-wests-long-war-against-serbia/) during WW2. NATO fascists in the 90ies dropped more bombs on Serbia than on On Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan combined. Not to mention depleted uranium which contaminated Serbian soil forever and raised cancer levels to twice the EU average. SERBIAN ENEMIES WOULD NOT HESITATE TO DROP A NUCLEAR BOMB ON SERBIA if they calculate they would be able to get away with that (and most likely they would, who would punish them if they did? Russia? Again, Russian leadership's main goal is to protect Russian citizens, not the Serbs). If all (or most) of it is true one should not judge Serbian leadership too harshly when it comes to extradition of Miloshevic, Mladic and Karadzic. Serbia and its leadership are dealing with rabid beasts and in such situations one can not be too cautious.

    Baloney

    Im not sure where you live but most “anglo saxon”, whoever they are, couldnt find serbia on a map and think kosovo is some sort of desert topping. And slavs look like all the other white people. Its not like we can tell you apart by looking.

    What sort of conceit leads serbs to believe nato would waste a nuke on them?

    Read More
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  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rado Mir
    To me it was enough to read this part ''... a strategy to create an ethnically pure Greater Serbia, purged of Catholics and Muslims...'' to understand what kind of ''hardened war correspondent'' he is. Nowadays, when we have (of Serbs) ethnically totally cleansed Kosovo, Croatia and parts of Bosnia and Hercegovina, he steel dares to tweet same old phrase: '' Catch that thief...''. Knowing, Serbia is absolutely most multiethnic society in this part of Europe. And also knowing such a fact that the great part of bosnian muslims then escaped war time tragedy seeking place of refuge guess where? In that (Great) Serbia, exactly. Saker (The Great) knows very best all of that ''at first hand'', because he was right there in that time and ''at the source of the information''.

    If he was so great why is his blog an echo chamber?

    Its easy to think youre right all the time when you enforce the absence of criticism. It is pretty clear that this fanciful piece of nationalist nonsense is evidence that his ability to think critically has been comprimised by too may yes-men.

    Read More
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  95. L.K says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Everything what Saker have written is absolute truth.

    Some clarifications.
    Serbs and Croats are genetically the same people. It was one Slavic tribe moving from areas of today's Bulgaria. The tribe did ask permission from Hungarian king, and they got it. It was Pravoslav tribe.
    The areas they settled was no mans land.
    Bosnians were another different Slavic tribe. Who were allowed to settle, but they have settled on Hungarian territory under the control of Hungarian prince. the territory was sparsely populated.
    Bosnians had a funny dresses.
    Later part of Serbs converted to Catholicism and called themselves Croats.
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia but many wandering Gypsies have settled there.
    (Albanians are Gypsies also.)
    Trouble with Gypsies is that they do not like to work, and they totally hate farming.
    So Kosovo in the end has no future.
    Croatian Serbs are more innovative that Serbian Serbs.

    Albanians are not Gypsies. Stop making things up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Go to Albania and take a look. And also you can ask.
    Albanians are not ashamed to be Gypsies.
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  96. L.K says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Why would the Serbs be limited to peaceful measures against the albanian kosovars? Why should they be?

    Answer is, Serbs, like all white European peoples and close allies of our civilization, need to have way more children and do whatever is necessary to get the land and resources back. To Hell with the Albanians. Literally.

    Albanians ARE a white European population… it just so happens that a majority of them eventually converted to Islam because of the Ottoman invasion and occupation.

    Same for the South Slavic Bosniaks… they don’t cease being European just because most adopted the invader’s religion.

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  97. Opasini says:

    It’s not just Serbia that was humiliated by the US and EU, look what they have done to the Republic of Macedonia. A poor statelet of 2 million people is being targeted for destruction by two giant blocs. Shame on the US. Shame on the EU.

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  98. @anonymous
    Many here (including the author), perhaps with some help from their grandmother, appear to be merrily manufacturing their own alternative facts, in conjunction with other friendly sources of alternative facts.

    What a convoluted web of lies and deceit mankind weaves. *spit*

    I have 2 incontrovertible (trust me :) ) facts for all your kind consideration;

    1. God is One, Infinite and Unique. In other words, 2..n ≠ 1.
    2. The white race, for the most part, is a bunch of evil greedy psychopaths.

    HUMAN BEINGS are inherently inclined to greed, easily tempted or convinced or goaded into evil, and full of sociopathy. Fixed that for ya.

    Read More
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  99. Vladimir says:

    Serbs are first civilization in Europe. 5000 years B.C. All European nations are descendants of us as well as Russians and Ukrainians. Go and educate yourself !

    Just read on academic portals like academia.edu archaeologic and history finding as well as genetic findings of mr. Anatolij Kljosov. Search for terms Stracevo, Vinca etc.

    We ruled with half of Europe for centuries. toponymes in Germany and archaeological findings like Arcana in North Germany. Celts and Gals are our vine.

    Metropolis> religion, alphabet, streets, culture, pottery, domestic animals, big, really big settlement, trade etc.

    small places like Lepenski Vir 8500 B.C. and those you talking about. few houses

    Educate yourself. Nazi bastards stole our sacred symbols like svastika and kolovrat that you can find on vases 5000 B.C. found in locality Starcevo near Belgrade – first metropolis in the world ! They are symbolise positive movement and prosperity.

    We Serbs are not into jewish propaganda and first propaganda book Bible. We are more intelligent than this. This is for stupid masses that believe in propaganda religions.

    Our religion is Rodna Vera – protect and live with mother nature and biggest entities of it all -Earth ( GEA )

    The truth is that this is Roman Empire conspiracy to divide great Slavic tribe that ruled all Balkans and half of Europe including Germany that Byzantine could not win.
    So our religion is not false Orthodox or Catholic religion but our Rodna Vera.
    Those two are planted by the Byzantine into Bulgarian and Serbian court and falsify our first letter that can be found on vases 5000 B.C. from Starcevo first world metropolis near Belgrade as well as falsify our religion Rodna Vera. They killed numerous Serbs that didn’t want to change their religion and also build churches on places where were Serbian shrines.

    Academia.edu search Starcevo, Vinca, Lepenski Vir and try to read archeological surveys. Also educate yourself about true history and all religion to find out real truth

    Unite all Slavic people in one great Slavic nation again and rule the Europe and World !

    RISING OF THE GREAT SLAVIC NATION IS NEAR !

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    An good post.

    Shows....something....

    Now, imagine (sic) having the same attitude coming from all sides there and, well....there you go.

    Thanks for an educational experience. I mean it.
    Not exactly for the same reason you posted here, but helps a lot, anyway.

    That's the breeding ground for "the type".
    Give him 3 weeks basic training, give him a gun/ammo, get him into a platoon of, say, 30-40 similar types, put those platoons into something of a unit of around 200 men, support them with a bit of artillery/tanks/logistics and.........voila.............here we go again.
    Muskets->Mausers->Schmeissers->AK-47s....I guess the next time it will be AN-94s/HK416s.
    Or clubs and stones.
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  100. geokat62 says:
    @Anonymous

    Members of the interventionist Balkan Action Committee, which advocated NATO ground troops for Kosovo, included such prominent neoconservative mainstays as Richard Perle, Max M. Kampelman, Morton Abramowitz, and Paul Wolfowitz. Other neoconservative proponents of a tougher war included Eliot Cohen, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, and Norman Podhoretz.
     
    Every. Single. Time.

    One has to wonder how would the world look like without the Jews.

    One has to wonder how would the world look like without the Jews.

    I stated a fact. By all means try and refute it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I was playing that straight and agreeing with you.
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  101. @Parbes
    Hah hah idiot... You have absolutely ZERO knowledge of me as a person; so you'd be well advised to not make an even greater fool of yourself than you already have, with moronic statements like this.

    What IS showing, is my revulsion at your typical Anglo self-serving hypocrisy and unwarranted superiority complex.

    Keep hating on and denigrating Russia, Serbs, Slavs, Chinese, etc., idiot - even as your truncated, Zio-dominated little Britannia gets mongrelized and Islamized and has less and less left to feel 'superior' about by the day.

    I must agree that the UK and especially England are becoming a freeking joke, and a filthy, intimidating, alien place to live _ which may even become officially Islamic in the not too distant future, God help them. But my USA is inviting in our own hostile overclass (Chinese and perhaps Indians) and at the same time our own backwards disloyal underclass (Mexicans). So I can’t throw stones as much as I would like.

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  102. @Philip Smeeton
    I am an extremist, so for me every Kosovo Albaner and every Albaner that is Muslim should be returned to Turkey. Given the power I would purge Europe of Islam entirely.

    Given the power, they would purge US from Europe entirely. And incredibly, they are being given that power.

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  103. @Verami
    "Well…my friend, the Serb movement in Bosnia in the latest round, at its heart, was Chetnik movement; the guys who sided with Germans in WW2. How did you miss that element here? How about…..”Serbonazis”, perhaps?"


    Do you mean the Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailovic who was posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit by US President Harry S. Truman in 1948?

    The Chetnik leader that the Germans offered 100,000 gold marks reward for, dead or alive?

    The same Chetniks who rescued and sheltered some 500 American airmen until they could be airlifted to safety?
    https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-500-Untold-Greatest-Mission/dp/0451224957


    Draza Mihailovic's daughter was invited to the US to receive the Legion of Merit award on his behalf in 2005.

    Fifty seven years after 1948 and the US government still believed that Mihailovic was worthy of the award.
    One would think that if there were any evidence to the contrary 57 years would be enough time to find it.


    "LEGION OF MERIT - CHIEF COMMANDER: General Dragoljub Mihailovich distinguished himself in an outstanding manner as Commander-in-Chief of the Yugoslavian Army Forces and later as Minister of War by Organizing and leading important resistance forces against the enemy which occupied Yugoslavia, from December 1941 to December 1944. Through the undaunted efforts of his troops, many United States airmen were rescued and returned safely to friendly control. General Mihailovich and his forces, although lacking adequate supplies, and fighting under extreme hardships, contributed materially to the Allied cause, and were instrumental in obtaining a final Allied victory."

    - Harry S. Truman, March 29, 1948.


    The Legion of Merit (LOM) is a military award of the United States Armed Forces that is given for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements. The decoration is issued to members of the seven uniformed services of the United States as well as to military and political figures of foreign governments.

    Awards from the US government aren’t necessarily something to be proud of.

    Read More
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  104. Zimriel says: • Website

    Quick question, Mr Saker: where do Albanians come from? where do Serbs come from?

    It’s not a rhetorical question because I, at least, have an answer: Albanians come from Kosovo; Serbs -as Slavs – come from Poland and Kievan Rus.

    Albanian isn’t one language but a family with two languages: Tosk and Gheg. The line between those two does not cross the Albania / Kosovar border. It crosses north-ish Albania, through Tirane. Also the Albanian language has many ancient Latin and Romance loanwords, and to the extent it has Greek this is not Byzantine-era Greek. Albanian is ancestrally north of the Jiricek Line.

    Kosovo is not the Serbs’ ancestral land. It’s the Albanians’. Saying the Serbs deserve to keep Kosovo because they lost a battle there is like saying the Americans have a right to Toronto.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    It is not that sure that the Albanians are native occupants of the Balkans (least of all the original native "Thraco-Illyrians"). They have always been a tiny minority (they are not mentioned before the 11th century and their language recorded only in the 13th century) in a see of Slavic populations and even today Albanian population is just 5m all over the place vs 23-24 m Slavs (Serbo-Croats 14-15m, Bulgarians 7m, Macedonians 2m).
    Byzantine sources suggest that they hailed from Sicily no earlier than the 11th century.
    , @AP

    It’s not a rhetorical question because I, at least, have an answer: Albanians come from Kosovo; Serbs -as Slavs – come from Poland and Kievan Rus.
     
    Actually, genetics shows that Serbs are only about 15%-20% Slavic. That makes them as Slavic as African-Americans are European. Most Serb ancestry is non-Slavic, local. Serbs are locals who mixed a little bit with Slavs but adopted the Slavic language; Albanians are less-mixed locals who retained the original language. Therefore, Kosovo is native Serbian land.
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  105. @L.K
    Albanians are not Gypsies. Stop making things up.

    Go to Albania and take a look. And also you can ask.
    Albanians are not ashamed to be Gypsies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    BS. You are a liar.
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  106. peterAUS says:
    @Vladimir
    Serbs are first civilization in Europe. 5000 years B.C. All European nations are descendants of us as well as Russians and Ukrainians. Go and educate yourself !

    Just read on academic portals like academia.edu archaeologic and history finding as well as genetic findings of mr. Anatolij Kljosov. Search for terms Stracevo, Vinca etc.

    We ruled with half of Europe for centuries. toponymes in Germany and archaeological findings like Arcana in North Germany. Celts and Gals are our vine.

    Metropolis> religion, alphabet, streets, culture, pottery, domestic animals, big, really big settlement, trade etc.

    small places like Lepenski Vir 8500 B.C. and those you talking about. few houses

    Educate yourself. Nazi bastards stole our sacred symbols like svastika and kolovrat that you can find on vases 5000 B.C. found in locality Starcevo near Belgrade - first metropolis in the world ! They are symbolise positive movement and prosperity.

    We Serbs are not into jewish propaganda and first propaganda book Bible. We are more intelligent than this. This is for stupid masses that believe in propaganda religions.

    Our religion is Rodna Vera - protect and live with mother nature and biggest entities of it all -Earth ( GEA )

    The truth is that this is Roman Empire conspiracy to divide great Slavic tribe that ruled all Balkans and half of Europe including Germany that Byzantine could not win.
    So our religion is not false Orthodox or Catholic religion but our Rodna Vera.
    Those two are planted by the Byzantine into Bulgarian and Serbian court and falsify our first letter that can be found on vases 5000 B.C. from Starcevo first world metropolis near Belgrade as well as falsify our religion Rodna Vera. They killed numerous Serbs that didn't want to change their religion and also build churches on places where were Serbian shrines.

    Academia.edu search Starcevo, Vinca, Lepenski Vir and try to read archeological surveys. Also educate yourself about true history and all religion to find out real truth

    Unite all Slavic people in one great Slavic nation again and rule the Europe and World !

    RISING OF THE GREAT SLAVIC NATION IS NEAR !

    An good post.

    Shows….something….

    Now, imagine (sic) having the same attitude coming from all sides there and, well….there you go.

    Thanks for an educational experience. I mean it.
    Not exactly for the same reason you posted here, but helps a lot, anyway.

    That’s the breeding ground for “the type”.
    Give him 3 weeks basic training, give him a gun/ammo, get him into a platoon of, say, 30-40 similar types, put those platoons into something of a unit of around 200 men, support them with a bit of artillery/tanks/logistics and………voila………….here we go again.
    Muskets->Mausers->Schmeissers->AK-47s….I guess the next time it will be AN-94s/HK416s.
    Or clubs and stones.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom57
    Exactly. You nailed it. Vladimir would be comical if people like him weren´t that serious. And they are all the same. You can hear the same kind of trash from all the Nationalists in Eastern Europe. Word for word just with other locations and other symbols. Always the fount of civilisation, the poor oppressed robbed of their civilisation and so on and so forth ad nauseum. But nowhere worse than the Balkans. But it is also true that the silent majority is sick of those people. They just can´t be bothered or else don´t dare to speak up. At least that is my experience travelling around Bosnia.
    If somebody came in and shot the worst bigots everybody would be relieved. People like Vladimir weren´t allowed their nonsense in the time of Tito. It would have been straight to jail. Ok, no freedom of expression and no democracy. In the 80s the rot sat in and people like him were allowed to peddle their nonsense.
    Unfortunately Yugoslavia relied on an ideology. What you need is the naked self interest of an outside force. That is much more sustainable.
    Sorry to be so cynical but if you have ever been there you would agree. The Mosque in Banja Luka (one of the most beautiful buildings in the world) was blown up by the likes of Vladimir. And treasures of mediaval Orthodox art was destroyed by the Kosovo Albanians. Not to speak of the hundreds of thousands who had to flee or who were killed. To the wall with those fanatics!!!
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  107. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @geokat62

    One has to wonder how would the world look like without the Jews.
     
    I stated a fact. By all means try and refute it.

    I was playing that straight and agreeing with you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Mia culpa
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  108. @Anonymous

    One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power.
     
    That wouldn't surprise me. At the time, Russia was getting humiliated at home by (((experts))) they were told to trust but the Balkan wars revealed other pieces of the puzzle. It became obvious that the West (most of it anyway) was being controlled and used by a hidden hand - a supranational, ruthless and deceptive group of "elites" who were just getting started. After the fall of the USSR they felt confident and less worried about various "international norms" and other pretences. The NWO was within reach.

    Things have only gotten worse since then but the hubris and the incompetence (brother and sister of multi-generational nepotism) are really taking their toll. Everyone knows.

    One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power.

    Too delicious: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Putin_the_Good_Goy

    That, above, is one account of “getting” Pooti-Poot to “power”.

    Serbian says:

    Goodbye, Russia. We Serbs can no longer stand with you in any sort of alliance, until you’re once again able to rule yourselves, until you stop trading your allies, selling them out for pennies and empty slogans. We can’t be with you until you free yourself of your anti-Slavic extremists…

    Goodbye, Russia. We love you more than ourselves. For us you’re a myth, like Kosovo. But as it turns out, this myth is a myth of a Russia which doesn’t exist.

    (Bozidar Trifunov Mitrovic. “The Genocide of the Romans and Slavs”.)

    “Saker”, you are so transparent. My skin crawls just reading snippets of your work. Does your skin crawl when you write it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lincoln Blockface Squarebeard III

    “Saker”, you are so transparent. My skin crawls just reading snippets of your work. Does your skin crawl when you write it?
     
    Haha...lol
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  109. geokat62 says:
    @Anonymous
    I was playing that straight and agreeing with you.

    Mia culpa

    Read More
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  110. Parbes says:
    @Philip Owen
    You have real problems. Far right racialism is a mental infection in Eastern Europe. Seek a cure.

    Switching to Sorosian ad hominems when you cannot answer an argument, eh? Well, I guess with a character like you, it figures…

    What is actually mentally sick, is neocon Russophobia and trying to wage so-called “Great Game” global hegemony wars against Russians, Chinese, Serbs etc. thousands of miles away from your shores, while your own small country gets negrified and Islamized by the day and gangs of Pakistanis rape and whore-ify your young girls in your own cities and towns.

    “Britannia that rules the waves” is OVER, man. Get used to it and deal with it. You’re a small, ailing country with many serious problems now. Hiding under the U.S. skirt isn’t going to change that.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Why are you so obsessed with the British Empire? Do you secretly want to be British?
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  111. L.K says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Go to Albania and take a look. And also you can ask.
    Albanians are not ashamed to be Gypsies.

    BS. You are a liar.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are pretty good, you are putting up a good fight. And that is why I do like you. You are not a Gypsy because you do not know anything about Gypsies.
    You claim that Albanians are white Europeans. What it really means.
    There are all kind of nationalities in Europe like Slavs Germans....etc. But I never heard that in Europe is such a nationality as White Europeans.

    Now let me teach you a little bit.
    All Albania is a plateau. That means elevated flatland. That means that people who had settled there,
    considered this fact for defensive purposes.
    Albanians do not call themselves Gypsies, they call themselves Upre Romans. Also most of the educated Gypsies call themselves Upre Romans.
    Albania is very poor country practically no natural resources and field are not very fertile.
    Except meadows for grazing animals, there is not much else there. We do not know much about Albanian people except that their origin is Indian State of Punjab
    There are some indication that these people settled there when Rome was still power in Europe,
    Through the centuries many people came from Punjab and also from other parts of India.
    Most of these people lived in horse drown carriages for many years before they settled.

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  112. Seraphim says:
    @Zimriel
    Quick question, Mr Saker: where do Albanians come from? where do Serbs come from?

    It's not a rhetorical question because I, at least, have an answer: Albanians come from Kosovo; Serbs -as Slavs - come from Poland and Kievan Rus.

    Albanian isn't one language but a family with two languages: Tosk and Gheg. The line between those two does not cross the Albania / Kosovar border. It crosses north-ish Albania, through Tirane. Also the Albanian language has many ancient Latin and Romance loanwords, and to the extent it has Greek this is not Byzantine-era Greek. Albanian is ancestrally north of the Jiricek Line.

    Kosovo is not the Serbs' ancestral land. It's the Albanians'. Saying the Serbs deserve to keep Kosovo because they lost a battle there is like saying the Americans have a right to Toronto.

    It is not that sure that the Albanians are native occupants of the Balkans (least of all the original native “Thraco-Illyrians”). They have always been a tiny minority (they are not mentioned before the 11th century and their language recorded only in the 13th century) in a see of Slavic populations and even today Albanian population is just 5m all over the place vs 23-24 m Slavs (Serbo-Croats 14-15m, Bulgarians 7m, Macedonians 2m).
    Byzantine sources suggest that they hailed from Sicily no earlier than the 11th century.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zimriel
    "Byzantine sources suggest that they hailed from Sicily no earlier than the 11th century."

    In that case the Albanian language should look like a Sardinian / Byzantine-Greek pidgin with a lot of Arabic. But it does not. Again: it looks like a separate language family (under Indo-European), mixed in with old Latin and Doric Greek. It looks like Illyrian under edge-Greek and then Roman influence.
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  113. Antiwar7 says:
    @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    Eric Margolis’s mother is Albanian.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Margolis_(journalist)#Background

    More importantly, the article of his you cite is a tissue of lies from start to finish. There was no Greater Serbia project: this existed only in the quotes of their enemies. What’s left of Serbia itself (i.e., without Kosovo) is the most ethnically mixed of the successor states, and there was never any danger of that changing. During the Bosnian war, many Bosnian Muslim refugees fled to Serbia.

    The 8,000 figure has no basis in fact. See, for ex:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/16/denying-the-srebrenica-genocide-because-its-not-true-an-interview-with-diana-johnstone/

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-srebrenica-massacre-was-a-gigantic-political-fraud/5321388

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  114. Antiwar7 says:
    @Dissenter
    2) Have personal or family ties to one of the factions, and are accordingly biased (the vast majority of the remainder)....
    The Saker is closer to 3 because he saw all those UNPROFOR (UN military) reports.
     Not so fast, he is most probably a type 2 individual.
    His ancestors, by his own words, great-grandfather maternal line, fought with the Nazis against Soviet Russia, and as I understood from his own words, they settled first in Serbia where most probably were born some of the following generations, including may be his mother; the father who left him was a proletarian Dutch ( hence his deep hatred for bolshevism, communism and everything who differ from her mother´s aristocratic origins... )....Do not forget that he told he was fourth generation Russian emigree....If you add to that his recent recognition of having being an "anti-communist" agent and still being one, and that his most influencing bedhead readings while growing up were Hitler´s "Mein Kampf" and Solzhenitsyn´s bible, you can easily conclude which part of Serbian society he supports...Obviously not the progressive conciliatory one....He supported The Donald all the way during the last elections as if there was no tomorrow, the same they did the remaining far-right Serbian at his blog, of course not the tolerant kind, having the most balanced departed long ago...

    Yes, so he may have reasons for pro-Serb bias. But during the early 90′s, he was still pro-NATO and anti-communist. So it’s a bit of a wash.

    But it is true that Tudjman (the Croatian president then) and Izetbegovic (the leader of the Bosnian govt then) were committed nationalists, not interested in compromise or holding back in any way, and in Izetbegovic’s case it wasn’t until after the Bosnian war that this was “recognized” by the Western press.

    And as for Kosovo, one could not find a worse or more evil group than the KLA to support on the Albanian side. They had a regular history of assassinating Kosovo Albanians who “cooperated” with the local Serbs (e.g., didn’t quit their jobs). See, for example, this item about the KLA’s leader: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/students/pop/articles/062599kosovo-kla-purge.html

    “Violence has long swirled around Thaci, whose nom de guerre was Snake.

    In June 1997, in an incident that many in the underground guerrilla movement found ominous, a Kosovar Albanian reporter who had close links with the movement was found dead in his apartment in Tirana, his face disfigured by repeated stabbings with a screwdriver and the butt end of a broken bottle.

    The reporter, Ali Uka, was supportive of the rebel movement, but he was also independent enough to criticize it. At the time of his death, he was sharing his apartment with Thaci.”

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  115. Antiwar7 says:
    @Christopher Black
    I take serious issue with this otherwise fine article-the statement that not one lawyer realised the international order was collapsing. Those of us on the International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic knew it-myself, Ramsey Clark, David Jacobs, Michael Mandel, Alex Mezyaev, and others (some of us laid war crimes charges against NATO for their attack on Yugoslavia) knew it and said so loudly and insistently and still say so. Here is my article on the Mladic "judgement" where I say so again:

    https://journal-neo.org/2017/11/28/the-mladic-case-a-stain-on-civilization/

    Christopher Black,
    Chair, Legal Committee
    International Committee for the Defence of Slobodan Milosevic

    Thank you for fighting the good fight, despite its tremendous unpopularity.

    At the time, everyone “knew” the Serbs were Nazis, just as later everyone “knew” there were WMD in Iraq and now everyone “knows” the Russians hacked the US election.

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  116. Antiwar7 says:
    @Tsigantes
    Actually: Greece stuck its neck out throughout on behalf of the Serbs, alone in Europe. Go and check.

    Yes, and that was courageous. But as members of NATO, they could have theoretically blocked all their out-of-area operations. In practice, though, I’m sure they have as much “freedom” in NATO as Trump has to make friends with Russia.

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  117. Antiwar7 says:
    @aloisius
    When it comes to ex-Yugoslavia, most authors and commentators just try to fit those events into their global agenda and interpret Yugoslav wars through that lens. So if someone sees "Anglo-Zionist empire" as their enemy, whoever was on the opposite side of them was the good guy. Then you´ll have people who are reflexively anti-muslim, who will decide whoever was against Muslims was also the good guy. And also, whoever the MSM was supporting had to be the bad guy. Those attitudes just don´t work very well when trying to explain what happened there.

    I think the first thing to do is to stop trying to fit those wars into any particular overarching global narrative. This was an indigenously motivated conflict. Idealizing Serbs as brave underdog anti-empire fighters is even more ridiculous than demonizing them. They had a huge advantage in the beginning of the war in terms of military strength and used that position of strength to take control of 30% of Croatia and 70% of Bosnia. In doing so, they very thoroughly ethnically cleansed those areas, which weren´t even 50% ethnically Serbian before the war and committed numerous atrocities against Croats and especially against Bosnian Muslims. And this is not about Srebrenica at all, this is about what happened in every town and village Serbian forces captured in Croatia in ´91 and in Bosnia in 92.

    At the beginning of the Bosnian war, the Bosnian Serbs had an advantage in weapons, but not in numbers of soldiers. And at the very start, the regular Croatian Army entered, well-armed “secretly” by Germany and others.

    “Every village”? You know that’s a lie. And are you contrasting that with the “friendly” actions of the Croat and Muslim forces?

    https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2013/09/14/medak_pocket_canadas_forgotten_battle.html

    When the Canadian UN forces moved in after the Croats retreated, they “found only destroyed buildings and tortured bodies.”

    And don’t forget the “good-guy” Muslims: (one example of many):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Neretva_%2793

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  118. Alden says:
    @Tsigantes
    Actually: Greece stuck its neck out throughout on behalf of the Serbs, alone in Europe. Go and check.

    Good for the Greeks

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  119. Alden says:
    @Brabantian
    Showing what an oily and dishonest little CIA toad he is, Andrei ‘The Saker’ Raevsky peppers his article above with links to the world's biggest Zionist hasbara disinformation site, the CIA's Wikipedia ... and this despite Raevsky-Saker's claim to be the big fighter against 'Anglo-Zionism'

    As Raevsky-Saker well knows, Wikipedia is run by an ex-pornographer, Jimmy Jimbo Wales, who goes to intimate birthday parties of Presidents of Israel. True to his porno roots, Wales is known in EU government reports for letting elite-connected paedophiles run fake biographies themselves on the Wiki website, so they can more easily make a few more 'young friends'. In fact the whole reason Wikipedia is 'anonymous', is to provide cover for CIA assets, Mossad assets, and paedophiles who publish there ... & who block IP addresses of critics who try to 'edit' and put the truth on Wiki.

    Raevsky-Saker even turns out to be a Florida near-neighbour of Wikipedia's porno guy Wales, too ... rather like Alex Jones of Infowars being down the street from the CIA's Stratfor in Austin, Texas ... Saker's promotion & marketing memes quite duplicate the CIA-Wikimedia ones, down to similar phrasing ... Saker has the same mysterious Wiki-type translation teams, somehow eager to render Saker's dubious jottings into 5 languages, too

    Raevsky-Saker the Faker has admitted he was 'formerly' an intel agent ... if you believe the 'former' part Ha! ... Saker spins a tale he was fired from the spy biz for being a whistle-blower of some kind, if you care to believe that. In fact Raevsky-Saker remains an intel asset, posing as a 'dissident' while trying to herd dissident sheeple toward the Muslim agenda, whilst also herding Putin fan-boys into NWO service.

    With all his massive funding and experience and knowledge of the Russian influence sphere, Raevsky-Saker somehow can't give us any references better than Tel-Aviv-patrolled Wikipedia, where 10 seconds after you post a link, the CIA & Mossad can change the text to make it even more bent to their Zionist propaganda? Saker is perhaps right now having a drink in Florida with his porno-and-paedo-sponsor friend and neighbour Wiki Jimbo Wales, laughing about how they get all the rubes to 'donate' to their two propaganda websites.

    Very interesting.

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  120. AP says:
    @Zimriel
    Quick question, Mr Saker: where do Albanians come from? where do Serbs come from?

    It's not a rhetorical question because I, at least, have an answer: Albanians come from Kosovo; Serbs -as Slavs - come from Poland and Kievan Rus.

    Albanian isn't one language but a family with two languages: Tosk and Gheg. The line between those two does not cross the Albania / Kosovar border. It crosses north-ish Albania, through Tirane. Also the Albanian language has many ancient Latin and Romance loanwords, and to the extent it has Greek this is not Byzantine-era Greek. Albanian is ancestrally north of the Jiricek Line.

    Kosovo is not the Serbs' ancestral land. It's the Albanians'. Saying the Serbs deserve to keep Kosovo because they lost a battle there is like saying the Americans have a right to Toronto.

    It’s not a rhetorical question because I, at least, have an answer: Albanians come from Kosovo; Serbs -as Slavs – come from Poland and Kievan Rus.

    Actually, genetics shows that Serbs are only about 15%-20% Slavic. That makes them as Slavic as African-Americans are European. Most Serb ancestry is non-Slavic, local. Serbs are locals who mixed a little bit with Slavs but adopted the Slavic language; Albanians are less-mixed locals who retained the original language. Therefore, Kosovo is native Serbian land.

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    • Replies: @Zimriel

    Serbs are locals who mixed a little bit with Slavs but adopted the Slavic language; Albanians are less-mixed locals who retained the original language. Therefore, Kosovo is native Serbian land.
     
    This argument works better as an argument that the Serbs in Kosovo and in a good part of Serbia too should re-adopt their ancestral, Albanian language.
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  121. Antiwar7 says:
    @Philip Owen
    So how far back should a land claim go? When the Roman Empire fell, the Serbs were somewhere in the Pripet marshes. Did the kill all the Illyrians?

    What are you talking about? I’m not making any “land claim[s]“. I’m merely pointing out that the theory that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is not generally accepted by historians, and moreover this claim has been used by Albanian nationalists to make their own “land claims”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_nationalism

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    • Replies: @AP

    I’m merely pointing out that the theory that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is not generally accepted by historians,
     
    It's one of three generally accepted theories, the others being that they are descended from Thracians and Dacians.
    , @Philip Owen
    History is being continuously rewritten. It is not a science. At best it is scholarship.
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  122. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    How would like to be one of those U.S. pilots who dropped cluster bombs on white Christian boys fighting for their Christian homeland against Mohammedans? Or a guy like General Michael Short (USAF, ret.) who ran the air campaign bombing Serbia and Serbs in Kosovo? Thanks you murdering monsters and cowards. I met Short one time in an airport a decade ago. I simply acknowledged him, “Hey General.” He looked startled, “Hey… did we serve together?” I told him, “Nope, have a nice day” and walked on. About a decade ago I also chatted with Madeline Albright for a half-hour. She seemed like a doddering old woman. I was polite and we talked about our families and Boston. I don’t think she would’ve ever suspected that I thought she should be charged for crimes against humanity. All these people will meet their maker one day. God have mercy on them when that day comes.

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  123. Antiwar7 says:
    @Jim
    Yugoslavia was always a pretend country. It had many different ethnicities but one ethnicity it lacked - it didn't have any Yugoslavs. Such a conglomeration may be held together by force as Tito held Yugoslavia together for a while. But such polities are fundamentally unstable and eventually disintegrate violently.

    The “Yugoslav” idea did not start with Serbs. It was primarily Croat intellectuals at first:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_Yugoslavia#Origins_of_the_idea

    That said, I agree it was a mistake to form it. The cultural backgrounds and aspirations of its various inhabitants were too different.

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    You would like to know that the 'Panslavism', decried as a 'Russian idea' and the proof of the 'Russian imperialism' against all civilized world was duty bound to fight against, was also a Croat invention:

    "The first pan-Slavists were the 16th-century Croatian writer Vinko Pribojević and the 17th-century Aleksandar Komulović, Bartol Kašić, Gundulić and Croatian Catholic missionary Juraj Križanić*. Some of the earliest manifestations of Pan-Slavic thought within the Habsburg Monarchy have been attributed to Adam Franz Kollár and Pavel Jozef Šafárik".

    *Juraj Križanić (c. 1618 – 12 September 1683), also known as Yuriy Krizhanich or Iurii Krizhanich (Russian: Крижанич, Юрий), was a Croatian Catholic missionary who is often regarded as the earliest recorded pan-Slavist... While Križanić had a strong desire to travel to Moscow with the ambitious goal of uniting the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, he was assigned missionary duties in Zagreb, where he was a teacher at the Zagreb Theological Seminary as well as a priest in several neighboring towns...
    [Eventually] Križanić managed to secure permission from the papacy for a brief visit to Moscow from 25 October to 19 December 1647 as part of a Polish embassy. However, he was not able to secure permission for a prolonged stay until 1658 (it was retracted shortly after being issued, a fact that Križanić simply ignored) and he did not arrive in Moscow until 17 September 1659. Another author said that he pretended to be an Orthodox Serb. He was assigned the duty of translating Latin and Greek documents and preparing an improved Slavic grammar. However, he was exiled to Siberia on 20 January 1661. The reason for his exile is still unknown. Possible explanations put forward have included the fact that he was a Roman Catholic priest [as if lying that he was an Orthodox Serb had no bearing on the case], his criticism of Russian society and of the Greeks, with whom Patriarch Nikon was attempting reconciliation, and other political and social motives. Križanić postulated that he was exiled because of "some foolish thing" he had said to someone, and that whatever he had said had been mentioned to the authorities....
    He wanted to unite the Slavic nations under the Russian Tsar and unite Catholic and Orthodox [certainly under the Pope] against the German Protestants and Turkish Muslims."

    You want to laugh or cry?

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  124. Antiwar7 says:
    @Szabolcs
    Serbians are not the victims there. They murdered tens of thousends of Hungarian, in the most inhuman way during WWII. The predecesor of Yugoslavia was artificially created by the Entente Powers (Great-Britain, France and the USA) in 1918. It was made up of the territory of different states. Vojvodina (correctly Vajdaság) was part of Hungary for more than a thousand years. Hungarians are the native people in that area. Serbians were settled there by the Habsburg oppressors of Hungary, mainly during the 18th century, as border guards. They were a militia, and they supported the Habsburgs against the Hungarian liberation movememts and during the independence war in 1848-49. Habsburgs were than able to overcome the Hungarians only by the help of Russia, which sent 200.000 soldiers to defeat those who fought for their liberty. That is the why Hungary had to enter WWI. Croatia was also part of the Hungarian Kingdom from around 1100 but was a separate entity, and there was never a nationalist opression against them. Nobles of Croatian origin were among the most powerful barons of Hungary in the Middle Ages, so Croatia was never treated as a colony. After the creation of Yugoslavia, all nations suffered from the Serbian rule and their nationalist oppression. People from other nations were treated as second class citizens. No wonder that every nation took the opportunity to get rid of the Serbian rule after 1990. The only people, who still has to suffer from the Serbian oppression are the native Hungarians living in Vajdaság, who are forced to live as a minority there, because after the Serbians put their dity hands on that territory, they moved there one million of their kind, to ensure their ethnic majority. In 1918, the biggest ethnic group was the Hungarian with 300.000 people, only 200.000 Serbian lived there, and around 170.000 German, who completely disappeared by now. The conclusion is that Serbians should live behind the borders of their own national territory, in the territory of the Serbian Kingdom that existed before 1918. Sorry for my possible gammatical mistakes.

    Of course there were Serbian victims, too. Not even counting WW I, we have this from WW II:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians_in_Serbia#Settlement

    “This region was annexed by Hungary, and it was colonized by new Hungarian settlers, at which time number of Hungarians in the area grew considerably, while in the same time many Serbs were expelled from Bačka. The brutal conduct of the Axis Hungarian occupying forces, including the Hungarian army and Royal Hungarian Gendarmes, has polarized both Hungarian and Serb communities. Under the Axis Hungarian authority, 19,573 people were killed in Bačka, of which the majority of victims were of Serb, Jewish and Romani origin.”

    You are a typical 2), as in:

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/kosovo-will-be-liberated/#comment-2112242

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    All Wikipedia is total crap.
    , @Szabolcs
    I am not biased more than you are. What is biased in the fact that the territory north of the Danube was the organic part of Hungary from 896 to 1918, the Hungarian was the first nation to establish a civilized state there and the Hungarian was the largest enthnic group there. It was unrighteously taken from Hungary and given to the Serbians. It was never in Serbian hands before, they have absolutely no right for that area. During the WWII part of the territory was reoccupied by Hungarian forces, the true owners and resistance had to be dealt with. I dont think that I would have to apologize for punching a gipsy that stole my bike and refuses to return it! Serbians have been agressively changing the ethnic composition of the territory (colonizing it if you prefer that word), and denying the basic rights to use their language from native Hungarians in order to asimilate them. Just like Ukranians do it with Russians and also Hungarians. And please nobody come with ancient panslavic, World ruling bullshit, because it is pathetic.
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  125. AP says:
    @Antiwar7
    What are you talking about? I'm not making any "land claim[s]". I'm merely pointing out that the theory that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is not generally accepted by historians, and moreover this claim has been used by Albanian nationalists to make their own "land claims".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_nationalism

    I’m merely pointing out that the theory that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is not generally accepted by historians,

    It’s one of three generally accepted theories, the others being that they are descended from Thracians and Dacians.

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  126. @L.K
    BS. You are a liar.

    You are pretty good, you are putting up a good fight. And that is why I do like you. You are not a Gypsy because you do not know anything about Gypsies.
    You claim that Albanians are white Europeans. What it really means.
    There are all kind of nationalities in Europe like Slavs Germans….etc. But I never heard that in Europe is such a nationality as White Europeans.

    Now let me teach you a little bit.
    All Albania is a plateau. That means elevated flatland. That means that people who had settled there,
    considered this fact for defensive purposes.
    Albanians do not call themselves Gypsies, they call themselves Upre Romans. Also most of the educated Gypsies call themselves Upre Romans.
    Albania is very poor country practically no natural resources and field are not very fertile.
    Except meadows for grazing animals, there is not much else there. We do not know much about Albanian people except that their origin is Indian State of Punjab
    There are some indication that these people settled there when Rome was still power in Europe,
    Through the centuries many people came from Punjab and also from other parts of India.
    Most of these people lived in horse drown carriages for many years before they settled.

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    • Replies: @L.K
    "We do not know much about Albanian people except that their origin is Indian State of Punjab"

    And this is a complete LIE.

    I'm not Albanian but you are a LIAR.
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  127. Antiwar7 says:
    @Anonymous
    Yeah, by that logic we'll soon gonna see the Roman Empire reclaim what's rightfully theirs ...

    It's funny how those Albanians materialised out of thin air (apparently every ethnicity has some kind of heritage except for the Albanians) and although always under occupation (except for that one time obviously) managed to hold on to Kosovo.

    And of course there's no plausible reason that nobody on the Balkans (and I mean nobody) likes the Serbs, they're angels after all and all the others are devils.

    “Nobody” likes the Serbs? Careful, your blatant racism is showing.

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  128. It would be good if Serbia (or anybody else) could set an example to the rest of Europe of a fighting spirit and an instinct for self preservation. If the mass media in Serbia is in the same (((hands))) as it is in the U.S., and its church is corrupted by liberals, Serbs are probably getting dumber not smarter.

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  129. @Antiwar7
    Of course there were Serbian victims, too. Not even counting WW I, we have this from WW II:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians_in_Serbia#Settlement
    "This region was annexed by Hungary, and it was colonized by new Hungarian settlers, at which time number of Hungarians in the area grew considerably, while in the same time many Serbs were expelled from Bačka. The brutal conduct of the Axis Hungarian occupying forces, including the Hungarian army and Royal Hungarian Gendarmes, has polarized both Hungarian and Serb communities. Under the Axis Hungarian authority, 19,573 people were killed in Bačka, of which the majority of victims were of Serb, Jewish and Romani origin."

    You are a typical 2), as in:
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/kosovo-will-be-liberated/#comment-2112242

    All Wikipedia is total crap.

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  130. Antiwar7 says:
    @peterAUS

    Do you mean the Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailovic who was posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit by US President Harry S. Truman in 1948?
     
    I do.

    The same person, I presume, one can find here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_White

    Take a look there if you wish.
    Scroll down to "Commanders and leaders", just below Mario Roatta.

    Now, I admit that for Chetniks the main enemy were Communists and they were definitely Serbian nationalists first and foremost.
    Alliance with Germans/Italians was simply means to ends.
    Had Allies invaded Balkans as Churchill wanted once, Chetniks would've switch sides and fought with Brits/Yanks against Communists and Germans.

    Balkans were never a simple place.

    You seem to know a fair bit about the area, through your marriage. But the story that “the” WW II Chetniks (there was never a unified effective command) were pro-Nazi is not true. That was the Tito line, but he was hardly a disinterested party. See for example:

    [By a British special forces soldier behind enemy lines in WW II, based on his personal recollections and later declassified British documents:]

    https://www.amazon.com/Rape-Serbia-British-Titos-1943-1944/dp/0151959102

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    You seem to know a fair bit about the area, through your marriage.
     
    That's the other guy, Tom57 (marriage I mean).
    My knowledge comes from a different path.

    That area is, I believe, a very good example for a lot of things.
    Almost a....laboratory.
    I find actually funny that Western alt-right is pretty clueless about it.

    The concepts of "blood and soil", conservatism, religion, NATION, ethnicity, clan, family.
    Several hundreds of years of conflict and survival including the latest bout.

    My take is that area is just too serious, too real for current sensibilities/sensitivities of Western alt-right thought.
    A...dark ....place.

    Anyway......

    Debating about WW2 Chetniks could be interesting (as about Ustashe from the same period too), but, my interest is in their versions from the latest bout.
    And, even more important, contemplating a bit what the new versions would do in the next.
    , @Anonymous
    Thanks Antiwar7. It's always nice to hear from an informed party (although Ilyana_Rozumova is right - Wikipedia is unreliable). How's the situation in Serbia now? Are Soros and his NGOs influential there?
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  131. peterAUS says:
    @Antiwar7
    You seem to know a fair bit about the area, through your marriage. But the story that "the" WW II Chetniks (there was never a unified effective command) were pro-Nazi is not true. That was the Tito line, but he was hardly a disinterested party. See for example:

    [By a British special forces soldier behind enemy lines in WW II, based on his personal recollections and later declassified British documents:]
    https://www.amazon.com/Rape-Serbia-British-Titos-1943-1944/dp/0151959102

    You seem to know a fair bit about the area, through your marriage.

    That’s the other guy, Tom57 (marriage I mean).
    My knowledge comes from a different path.

    That area is, I believe, a very good example for a lot of things.
    Almost a….laboratory.
    I find actually funny that Western alt-right is pretty clueless about it.

    The concepts of “blood and soil”, conservatism, religion, NATION, ethnicity, clan, family.
    Several hundreds of years of conflict and survival including the latest bout.

    My take is that area is just too serious, too real for current sensibilities/sensitivities of Western alt-right thought.
    A…dark ….place.

    Anyway……

    Debating about WW2 Chetniks could be interesting (as about Ustashe from the same period too), but, my interest is in their versions from the latest bout.
    And, even more important, contemplating a bit what the new versions would do in the next.

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  132. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Antiwar7
    You seem to know a fair bit about the area, through your marriage. But the story that "the" WW II Chetniks (there was never a unified effective command) were pro-Nazi is not true. That was the Tito line, but he was hardly a disinterested party. See for example:

    [By a British special forces soldier behind enemy lines in WW II, based on his personal recollections and later declassified British documents:]
    https://www.amazon.com/Rape-Serbia-British-Titos-1943-1944/dp/0151959102

    Thanks Antiwar7. It’s always nice to hear from an informed party (although Ilyana_Rozumova is right – Wikipedia is unreliable). How’s the situation in Serbia now? Are Soros and his NGOs influential there?

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    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    Thanks! I assume the answer to your question is yes, though I don't know first-hand.

    I picked the Wikipedia links because they were easy to find. The points I was making have plenty of other references. But why bother here? The only people left reading these comments have their own strong opinions (and biases), and are not looking for information.
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  133. @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    is still used by the Empire to try to divide Orthodox Christians and Muslim to better rule over them all or, even better, to have them fight each other.

    It is still TABOO for professional analysts to CLEARLY state historical FACT that for the last 700-800 years the ROOT of all EVIL in the world hails from the Island north of today’s France and their western and other satraps.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    And yet, 700 years later, people are safer from violent death, healthier, richer, longer lived, freer and more numerous in a more peaceful world than they have ever been. If that is evil, point out another hegemon with a better track record.
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  134. Seraphim says:
    @Antiwar7
    The "Yugoslav" idea did not start with Serbs. It was primarily Croat intellectuals at first:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_Yugoslavia#Origins_of_the_idea

    That said, I agree it was a mistake to form it. The cultural backgrounds and aspirations of its various inhabitants were too different.

    You would like to know that the ‘Panslavism’, decried as a ‘Russian idea’ and the proof of the ‘Russian imperialism’ against all civilized world was duty bound to fight against, was also a Croat invention:

    “The first pan-Slavists were the 16th-century Croatian writer Vinko Pribojević and the 17th-century Aleksandar Komulović, Bartol Kašić, Gundulić and Croatian Catholic missionary Juraj Križanić*. Some of the earliest manifestations of Pan-Slavic thought within the Habsburg Monarchy have been attributed to Adam Franz Kollár and Pavel Jozef Šafárik”.

    *Juraj Križanić (c. 1618 – 12 September 1683), also known as Yuriy Krizhanich or Iurii Krizhanich (Russian: Крижанич, Юрий), was a Croatian Catholic missionary who is often regarded as the earliest recorded pan-Slavist… While Križanić had a strong desire to travel to Moscow with the ambitious goal of uniting the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, he was assigned missionary duties in Zagreb, where he was a teacher at the Zagreb Theological Seminary as well as a priest in several neighboring towns…
    [Eventually] Križanić managed to secure permission from the papacy for a brief visit to Moscow from 25 October to 19 December 1647 as part of a Polish embassy. However, he was not able to secure permission for a prolonged stay until 1658 (it was retracted shortly after being issued, a fact that Križanić simply ignored) and he did not arrive in Moscow until 17 September 1659. Another author said that he pretended to be an Orthodox Serb. He was assigned the duty of translating Latin and Greek documents and preparing an improved Slavic grammar. However, he was exiled to Siberia on 20 January 1661. The reason for his exile is still unknown. Possible explanations put forward have included the fact that he was a Roman Catholic priest [as if lying that he was an Orthodox Serb had no bearing on the case], his criticism of Russian society and of the Greeks, with whom Patriarch Nikon was attempting reconciliation, and other political and social motives. Križanić postulated that he was exiled because of “some foolish thing” he had said to someone, and that whatever he had said had been mentioned to the authorities….
    He wanted to unite the Slavic nations under the Russian Tsar and unite Catholic and Orthodox [certainly under the Pope] against the German Protestants and Turkish Muslims.”

    You want to laugh or cry?

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    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    Fascinating. Thanks for the info.
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  135. Kiza says:
    @geokat62

    And when finally international law was overtly and viciously violated when the “western democracies” used their airpower to support the terrorists and thugs of the KLA, not a single lawyer or politician had the brains to realize that what died the day the first bomb fell on Serbia was the entire international order created after WWII.
     
    Au contraire! You mustn't be aware of the Balkan Action Committee (BAC)... neither was I until I read Prof. Stephen Sniegoski's The Transparent Cabal. In it, the good professor brings to light the existence of the BAC and the composition of its members:

    Members of the interventionist Balkan Action Committee, which advocated NATO ground troops for Kosovo, included such prominent neoconservative mainstays as Richard Perle, Max M. Kampelman, Morton Abramowitz, and Paul Wolfowitz. Other neoconservative proponents of a tougher war included Eliot Cohen, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan, and Norman Podhoretz.
     
    While it is rather surprising to find our favourite neoconservatives behind an organization pushing for war against Serbia, Prof. Sniegoski explains their motivation:

    The attack on Serbia, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons, provided the intellectual groundwork for the attack on Iraq, the neocons’ fundamental target, since it set the precedent of violating international law’s prohibition against initiating offensive wars.
     
    As far as this statement by the Saker is concerned:

    Yes, all the anti-Muslim GWOT-wars after 9/11 have their methodological roots in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. There will come a day when Muslims will come to understand that fact and they will then reevaluate what they thought they knew about the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo.
     
    I would tend to agree to the extant people familiarize themselves with the facts put forth by Prof. Sniegoski regarding the BAC, including its objectives and its members.

    Thanks geo, I have been trying to explain the same for years now. What happened to Yugoslavia would not have happened without the ZioWahhabis, although the stupid local hates, exhibited so well in the trollish bull of so many comments here, helped the war along too much. In other words, the war in Yugoslavia would not have happened without ZioWahhabis playing on ethnic and religious conflict, but the war would have still failed to develop without the local hates.

    Another thing that I have been pointing out since I can remember, that Serbia is a dress-rehearsal for the big game (as in hunting) – Russia is now coming through. The same as when the Germanic Nazis started their Drang nach Osten for Lebensraum and resources, all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World.

    I can only hope that if we win this time again, we will be much less forgiving towards those who customarily become victims once they lose the wars they eagerly participate in.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World....
     
    ...who were (and often are) the blood enemies of the Nazis

    whenever I try to understand and reconcile the endemic hatreds in that part of the world, and the alliances between the Nazis and Bolsheviks and Zionists and nationalists and Christians (both Catholic and Orthodox) and Muslims and Jews of yesterday and today, my head spins


    The Ustaše recognized both Roman Catholicism and Islam as the national religions of the Croatian people but initially rejected Orthodox Christianity as being incompatible with their objectives.[21] Although the Ustaše emphasized religious themes, it stressed that duty to the nation took precedence over religious custom.[36] In power, the Ustaše banned the use of the term "Serbian Orthodox faith", requiring "Greek-Eastern faith" in its place.[30] The Ustaše forcefully converted many Orthodox to Catholicism, murdered and expelled 85% of Orthodox priests[37], plundered and burnt many Orthodox Christian churches.[37] The Ustaše also persecuted Old Catholics who did not recognize papal infallibility.[30] The Ustaše altered their stance towards the Orthodox faith in August 1941 when the NDH allowed those Orthodox Serbs who held no political association with Serbia to be permitted to attain Croatian citizenship and be declared Aryans.[citation needed] On 2 July 1942 the Croatian Orthodox Church was founded, as a further means to destroy the Serbian Orthodox Church, but this new Church gained very few followers.[38]

    While initial focus was against Serbs, as the Ustase grew closer to the Nazis they adopted antisemitism.[39] In 1936, in “The Croat Question”, Ante Pavelić placed Jews third among “the Enemies of the Croats” (after Serbs and Freemasons, but before Communists): writing:


    ″Today, practically all finance and nearly all commerce in Croatia is in Jewish hands. This became possible only through the support of the state, which thereby seeks, on one hand, to strengthen the pro-Serbian Jews, and on the other, to weaken Croat national strength. The Jews celebrated the establishment of the so-called Yugoslav state with great joy, because a national Croatia could never be as useful to them as a multi-national Yugoslavia; for in national chaos lies the power of the Jews... In fact, as the Jews had foreseen, Yugoslavia became, in consequence of the corruption of official life in Serbia, a true Eldorado of Jewry.”[40]

    Once in power, the Ustaše immediately introduced a series of Nazi-style Racial Laws, sent most Jews to Ustaše and Nazi concentration camps - including the notorious, Ustaše-run, Jasenovac - where all told nearly, 32.000, or 80% of the Jews in the Independent State of Croatia, were exterminated.[41]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

    there's a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches' brew there to discombobulate the mind

    and now it's the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court.

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44928000/jpg/_44928801_-6.jpg
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  136. Szabolcs says:
    @Antiwar7
    Of course there were Serbian victims, too. Not even counting WW I, we have this from WW II:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians_in_Serbia#Settlement
    "This region was annexed by Hungary, and it was colonized by new Hungarian settlers, at which time number of Hungarians in the area grew considerably, while in the same time many Serbs were expelled from Bačka. The brutal conduct of the Axis Hungarian occupying forces, including the Hungarian army and Royal Hungarian Gendarmes, has polarized both Hungarian and Serb communities. Under the Axis Hungarian authority, 19,573 people were killed in Bačka, of which the majority of victims were of Serb, Jewish and Romani origin."

    You are a typical 2), as in:
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/kosovo-will-be-liberated/#comment-2112242

    I am not biased more than you are. What is biased in the fact that the territory north of the Danube was the organic part of Hungary from 896 to 1918, the Hungarian was the first nation to establish a civilized state there and the Hungarian was the largest enthnic group there. It was unrighteously taken from Hungary and given to the Serbians. It was never in Serbian hands before, they have absolutely no right for that area. During the WWII part of the territory was reoccupied by Hungarian forces, the true owners and resistance had to be dealt with. I dont think that I would have to apologize for punching a gipsy that stole my bike and refuses to return it! Serbians have been agressively changing the ethnic composition of the territory (colonizing it if you prefer that word), and denying the basic rights to use their language from native Hungarians in order to asimilate them. Just like Ukranians do it with Russians and also Hungarians. And please nobody come with ancient panslavic, World ruling bullshit, because it is pathetic.

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    • Replies: @SrGrl
    "Serbians have been aggressively changing the ethnic composition". Have the Serbs burned down churches, Hungarian houses, killed Hungarians and harvested their organs? I think not...

    I agree the treaty of Trianon was very unfair to Hungary, but Hungary lost the war, and this was what the great powers imposed upon Hungary.

    Serbia lost the war with NATO. Just like Hungary in 1920, Serbia in 1999 had to accept the treaty that great powers imposed: UN 1244. UN1244 specifically states that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia.

    Then in 2008, the US unilaterally violated UN1244 by recognising Kosovo as an independent state, thereby throwing the international order into limbo and undermining the territorial integrity of Serbia.

    This was typical bully behaviour. The only reason there was so little outrage in the West was because the Serbs had been demonised for long, so nobody really cared. But if the US can do this to the Serbia, it means they can do it to every and any country .
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  137. AP says:

    Serbians have been agressively changing the ethnic composition of the territory (colonizing it if you prefer that word), and denying the basic rights to use their language from native Hungarians in order to asimilate them. Just like Ukranians do it with Russians and also Hungarians

    The Ukrainian policy that Hungary objects to is changing Hungarian high schools to being half in the Hungarian language and half in the Ukrainian language, rather than only having 1-3 hours of Ukrainian per week. The reason for this “outrageous” reform is that Hungarian kids leaving those schools couldn’t speak non-Hungarian and couldn’t pass university entrance exams – they were basically forced either stay in their Hungarian-speaking villages or to move to Hungary.

    So now Hungarian kids will be learning Ukrainian and using it in high school, while still also having classes in Hungarian. Meanwhile Hungarian-only grammar schools will be kept the way they are. These quite-reasonable reforms were declared acceptable by the Venice Commission.

    When the specific nature of the reforms were explained to the Romanians, the Romania backed off its opposition. Hungary has not. Hungary is playing a game here. For whom?

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    • Replies: @Szabolcs
    The Ukranian policy Hungary objects to makes it compulsory for Hungarian kids to learn in Ukranian language above the fourth grade in primary school, in secondary shool and at the university. Every nation must have the right to learn on its mother tongue. And anyway, noone on Earth wants to learn Ukranian. Moreover noone on Earth wants to live in Ukraine. Hungarians have to live in that country because their homeland was torn out of Hungary, and given to Czechoslovakia, than to the Soviet Union and after the CCCP crumbled, they became part of Ukraine. The territory where they live is on the western side of the Carpathian Mountains, and belonged to Hungary from 895 to 1918. The 80 percent of the population is NOT Ukranian but rusyn, and they are not even recognized by Ukraine as a nation. That is because if they recognized them, they could become independent, and that is what they want. Their best chance would be to return to Hungary as an autonomous region, and become part of the EU, which they have absolutely zero chance to achieve as part of Ukraine. But they dont dare to speak out, with Ukrainian chauvinist military groups marching on their streets. Hungary should demand self determination for that region. And as for the ridiculous Venice Commission, they are in no position to tell any national group how they should live their lives. They are just singing from the music sheet of the zionists who rule Ukraine in coalition with the Ukrainian fascists.
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  138. Tom57 says:
    @peterAUS
    An good post.

    Shows....something....

    Now, imagine (sic) having the same attitude coming from all sides there and, well....there you go.

    Thanks for an educational experience. I mean it.
    Not exactly for the same reason you posted here, but helps a lot, anyway.

    That's the breeding ground for "the type".
    Give him 3 weeks basic training, give him a gun/ammo, get him into a platoon of, say, 30-40 similar types, put those platoons into something of a unit of around 200 men, support them with a bit of artillery/tanks/logistics and.........voila.............here we go again.
    Muskets->Mausers->Schmeissers->AK-47s....I guess the next time it will be AN-94s/HK416s.
    Or clubs and stones.

    Exactly. You nailed it. Vladimir would be comical if people like him weren´t that serious. And they are all the same. You can hear the same kind of trash from all the Nationalists in Eastern Europe. Word for word just with other locations and other symbols. Always the fount of civilisation, the poor oppressed robbed of their civilisation and so on and so forth ad nauseum. But nowhere worse than the Balkans. But it is also true that the silent majority is sick of those people. They just can´t be bothered or else don´t dare to speak up. At least that is my experience travelling around Bosnia.
    If somebody came in and shot the worst bigots everybody would be relieved. People like Vladimir weren´t allowed their nonsense in the time of Tito. It would have been straight to jail. Ok, no freedom of expression and no democracy. In the 80s the rot sat in and people like him were allowed to peddle their nonsense.
    Unfortunately Yugoslavia relied on an ideology. What you need is the naked self interest of an outside force. That is much more sustainable.
    Sorry to be so cynical but if you have ever been there you would agree. The Mosque in Banja Luka (one of the most beautiful buildings in the world) was blown up by the likes of Vladimir. And treasures of mediaval Orthodox art was destroyed by the Kosovo Albanians. Not to speak of the hundreds of thousands who had to flee or who were killed. To the wall with those fanatics!!!

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    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well….for a couple of reasons “troubles” in Balkans have been a pet project of mine for quite some time. Whoever is really interested in the topic can easy find related material and even communicate with people on the ground. Not many Westerners do that for, I believe, peculiar reasons.

    Vladimir would be comical if people like him weren´t that serious. And they are all the same. You can hear the same kind of trash from all the Nationalists in Eastern Europe. Word for word just with other locations and other symbols. Always the fount of civilisation, the poor oppressed robbed of their civilisation and so on and so forth ad nauseum. But nowhere worse than the Balkans.
     
    Agree.
    The problem is, such types had an opportunity, and they have realized it, twice so far over there, in span of 3 generations. That definitely made a lot of difference on the ground as we speak.
    It’s one thing saying all that in a pub. It’s quite another methodically “ethnically cleansing” complete regions. The euphemism doesn’t even begin to describe how that really looks like on the ground.

    But it is also true that the silent majority is sick of those people. They just can´t be bothered or else don´t dare to speak up. At least that is my experience travelling around Bosnia.
     
    I believe you are wrong.
    Now….that’s a big topic and probably not for a site like this, but, that’s not so simple and optimistic as you say, IMHO.
    The primary motive last time for the majority wasn’t hate against OTHER. Yes, as you’ve noticed, you always have “true believers” who do hate and are capable of anything. But…..the primary motive was, actually, “I have no choice but to join”. And, well, majority of peoples over there don’t, for historical reasons, really say in public what they think/feel in private. You, as an “outsider” were treated as, well, outsider from West. To be insider isn’t enough to be of the same religion/ethnicity/nation. You have to be from the same region, speak with the same accent too. A Catholic Croat from Istria is an outsider, for example, for a Catholic Croat from Herzegovina. The same principle applies everywhere over there.

    If somebody came in and shot the worst bigots everybody would be relieved. People like Vladimir weren´t allowed their nonsense in the time of Tito. It would have been straight to jail. Ok, no freedom of expression and no democracy.
     
    I see.
    Well, not quite. Dangerously simplistic, even.
    Defining a bigot there is not an easy exercise.
    For example, both Mladic and Praljak could be defined as bigots. But, compared to leadership types in West, don’t they have some, actually, high qualities? Take a look at their resumes/life history.
    As for jail, true. But, both Mladic and Praljak were successful people during Tito’s regime. Didn’t go to jail then. Then, when the environment changed, bang, they, somehow, became, by Western standards bigots, monsters, genocidal maniacs etc.
    Trying to understand that fast and easy is wrong and shall create problems again.
    You mentioned “no freedom of expression and no democracy”. Well, what then? Constant dictatorships for those peoples there? Why? That, then, means that something is wrong with them? By whose standards? Sounds racist....haha...
    The problems are much more deeper and complicated. Hence, the solutions.

    In the 80s the rot sat in and people like him were allowed to peddle their nonsense.
     
    The rot started immediately after WW2, I believe. But, again, we could start debating the issue for years and came up with nothing of substance. One can see it everywhere where people …”debate”…history.
    The core problem, IMHO, is actually very simple.
    This problem requires everyone to sit and openly and honestly talk about the issue.
    Now…tell me…..where in the world you can see that? Do, in West, as we speak, opposing views are debated/resolved in such a way? Westerners can’t do that for a simple thing as police violence, for example. Wanting Balkans people to do the same for several hundreds of years of bloody history sounds….patronizing and hypocritical, to say the least.
    Tito’s regime didn’t handle nationalism well, obviously.
    Now, we have West handling the same thing. You believe it’s better? I don’t.
    My point is, it’s not easy even if one wants to resolve it. The tragedy is, the most of people over thre did believe that “International Community” will help them to, finally, resolve all that. It didn’t.

    What you need is the naked self interest of an outside force. That is much more sustainable.
     
    Perhaps. But ,as soon it weakens, the unresolved suppressed problem erupts again.

    To the wall with those fanatics!!!
     
    Perhaps. That’s what Tito did at the end of the WW 2. Didn’t work, obviously.
    The fanatics, as you call them, didn’t, at the time, materialize out of thin air. They turned up from ordinary people when the iron grip of Communist rule relaxed.
    The environment breeds them. That environment needs understanding and then, hopefully, resolving.
    I don’t see how, at least not in my lifetime.
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  139. @Whoriskey
    I believe that dictum belongs to Simon de Montfort. Say what you like about him - he was effective in suppressing the Albigensian heresy

    Arnaud Amalric. I believe Montfort, Earl of Leicester, led the rebellion against Henry III.

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  140. L.K says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are pretty good, you are putting up a good fight. And that is why I do like you. You are not a Gypsy because you do not know anything about Gypsies.
    You claim that Albanians are white Europeans. What it really means.
    There are all kind of nationalities in Europe like Slavs Germans....etc. But I never heard that in Europe is such a nationality as White Europeans.

    Now let me teach you a little bit.
    All Albania is a plateau. That means elevated flatland. That means that people who had settled there,
    considered this fact for defensive purposes.
    Albanians do not call themselves Gypsies, they call themselves Upre Romans. Also most of the educated Gypsies call themselves Upre Romans.
    Albania is very poor country practically no natural resources and field are not very fertile.
    Except meadows for grazing animals, there is not much else there. We do not know much about Albanian people except that their origin is Indian State of Punjab
    There are some indication that these people settled there when Rome was still power in Europe,
    Through the centuries many people came from Punjab and also from other parts of India.
    Most of these people lived in horse drown carriages for many years before they settled.

    “We do not know much about Albanian people except that their origin is Indian State of Punjab”

    And this is a complete LIE.

    I’m not Albanian but you are a LIAR.

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Give me some proof except the one that is totally idiotic that Albanians are white Europeans,
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  141. hmmmmm . . .

    My problem here is that even the Russians had chastised the Serbians for their genocide. That was the turning point in my view. The evidence was overwhelming that genocide was talking lace. And I have read the two state agreements and much of the teeth grinding by Dr. Chomsky.

    There are few instances in which I support military intervention — genocide is one of them.

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    • Replies: @SrGrl
    Sorry Elite, but that's not true:

    Russians VETOED the Srebrenica genocide resolution. Churkin said that the Western version of events was a "distortion" where the blame is "basically placed on one people". China abstained saying the claim of genocide was "politically motivated"

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bosnia-srebrenica-un/russia-blocks-u-n-condemnation-of-srebrenica-as-a-genocide-idUSKCN0PI1W620150708
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  142. Szabolcs says:
    @AP

    Serbians have been agressively changing the ethnic composition of the territory (colonizing it if you prefer that word), and denying the basic rights to use their language from native Hungarians in order to asimilate them. Just like Ukranians do it with Russians and also Hungarians
     
    The Ukrainian policy that Hungary objects to is changing Hungarian high schools to being half in the Hungarian language and half in the Ukrainian language, rather than only having 1-3 hours of Ukrainian per week. The reason for this "outrageous" reform is that Hungarian kids leaving those schools couldn't speak non-Hungarian and couldn't pass university entrance exams - they were basically forced either stay in their Hungarian-speaking villages or to move to Hungary.

    So now Hungarian kids will be learning Ukrainian and using it in high school, while still also having classes in Hungarian. Meanwhile Hungarian-only grammar schools will be kept the way they are. These quite-reasonable reforms were declared acceptable by the Venice Commission.

    When the specific nature of the reforms were explained to the Romanians, the Romania backed off its opposition. Hungary has not. Hungary is playing a game here. For whom?

    The Ukranian policy Hungary objects to makes it compulsory for Hungarian kids to learn in Ukranian language above the fourth grade in primary school, in secondary shool and at the university. Every nation must have the right to learn on its mother tongue. And anyway, noone on Earth wants to learn Ukranian. Moreover noone on Earth wants to live in Ukraine. Hungarians have to live in that country because their homeland was torn out of Hungary, and given to Czechoslovakia, than to the Soviet Union and after the CCCP crumbled, they became part of Ukraine. The territory where they live is on the western side of the Carpathian Mountains, and belonged to Hungary from 895 to 1918. The 80 percent of the population is NOT Ukranian but rusyn, and they are not even recognized by Ukraine as a nation. That is because if they recognized them, they could become independent, and that is what they want. Their best chance would be to return to Hungary as an autonomous region, and become part of the EU, which they have absolutely zero chance to achieve as part of Ukraine. But they dont dare to speak out, with Ukrainian chauvinist military groups marching on their streets. Hungary should demand self determination for that region. And as for the ridiculous Venice Commission, they are in no position to tell any national group how they should live their lives. They are just singing from the music sheet of the zionists who rule Ukraine in coalition with the Ukrainian fascists.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    The Ukranian policy Hungary objects to makes it compulsory for Hungarian kids to learn in Ukranian language above the fourth grade in primary school, in secondary shool and at the university.
     
    Sure. But not only in Ukrainian. They will also have Hungarian-language classes all through high school. Previously it was only in Hungarian (or rather, 1-3 hours of Ukrainian per week). Students would graduate high school and be unable to go to university.

    And anyway, noone on Earth wants to learn Ukranian.
     
    I'm sure nobody outside Hungary cares to learn Hungarian. Should minorities within Hungary never learn the Hungarian language?

    The territory where they live is on the western side of the Carpathian Mountains, and belonged to Hungary from 895 to 1918.
     
    And Hungary belonged to Turkey and Austria for some times, so? Magyars originally came from Asia, did they not?

    The 80 percent of the population is NOT Ukranian but rusyn, and they are not even recognized by Ukraine as a nation.
     
    Most of them do not recognize themselves as a separate nation either. About 1% of those people claim to be Rusyns and not Ukrainians.

    That is because if they recognized them, they could become independent, and that is what they want.
     
    LOL, that must be why they vote for Ukrainian nationalists.

    But they dont dare to speak out, with Ukrainian chauvinist military groups marching on their streets.
     
    That's one interpretation. Are Fidesz and Jobbik similarly preventing the people of Hungary from declaring themselves a gypsy republic, or some such nonsense?
    , @RadicalCenter
    If the Rusyn become part of the EU, they will ultimately be forced to accept invasion by Muslims and Africans. That will endanger their physical safety, destroy their common culture, impoverish them further, and End their identity and existence as a nation.

    Now if Hungary is wise enough to leave the EU, then perhaps Hungary could be an attractive option for the Rusyn to escape from the collapsing and dying Ukraine.

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  143. SrGrl says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    hmmmmm . . .


    My problem here is that even the Russians had chastised the Serbians for their genocide. That was the turning point in my view. The evidence was overwhelming that genocide was talking lace. And I have read the two state agreements and much of the teeth grinding by Dr. Chomsky.


    There are few instances in which I support military intervention -- genocide is one of them.

    Sorry Elite, but that’s not true:

    Russians VETOED the Srebrenica genocide resolution. Churkin said that the Western version of events was a “distortion” where the blame is “basically placed on one people”. China abstained saying the claim of genocide was “politically motivated”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bosnia-srebrenica-un/russia-blocks-u-n-condemnation-of-srebrenica-as-a-genocide-idUSKCN0PI1W620150708

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    That's flipping the card. What Russia objected to was any press that the Serbs alone were responsible for genocide. The record is clear that even they called the Serbs behavior a bridge too far and pressed them to cease that activity.


    Now we could argue which side was worse. And i would fall to the side of the Serbs as defacto the powers that be with greater means of power to exercise force, hence the NATO intervention.


    But it would be disingenuous to claim that the UN vote by Russia exonerated Serbs from claims of genocide.
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  144. @L.K
    "We do not know much about Albanian people except that their origin is Indian State of Punjab"

    And this is a complete LIE.

    I'm not Albanian but you are a LIAR.

    Give me some proof except the one that is totally idiotic that Albanians are white Europeans,

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    lightly perusing this thread

    totally idiotic that Albanians are white Europeans,
     
    whenever someone asks me who is white, I always respond that such things have been decided for us in the West

    basically it's anyone who it is legal to discriminate against in ZUSA (and elsewhere in the Zio-West), and that would definitely include Albanians, (like the Belushi brothers for instance), who are definitely white based on the legal description used to discriminate against all white men

    http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/81/f2/1b/81f21b4c434ac1ece02b789fd655ac7b.jpg

    if you were born in the ZUSA, then you can cry that you're Albanian all day long, and they'd still tell you to take your white arse to the back of the line.

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  145. peterAUS says:
    @Tom57
    Exactly. You nailed it. Vladimir would be comical if people like him weren´t that serious. And they are all the same. You can hear the same kind of trash from all the Nationalists in Eastern Europe. Word for word just with other locations and other symbols. Always the fount of civilisation, the poor oppressed robbed of their civilisation and so on and so forth ad nauseum. But nowhere worse than the Balkans. But it is also true that the silent majority is sick of those people. They just can´t be bothered or else don´t dare to speak up. At least that is my experience travelling around Bosnia.
    If somebody came in and shot the worst bigots everybody would be relieved. People like Vladimir weren´t allowed their nonsense in the time of Tito. It would have been straight to jail. Ok, no freedom of expression and no democracy. In the 80s the rot sat in and people like him were allowed to peddle their nonsense.
    Unfortunately Yugoslavia relied on an ideology. What you need is the naked self interest of an outside force. That is much more sustainable.
    Sorry to be so cynical but if you have ever been there you would agree. The Mosque in Banja Luka (one of the most beautiful buildings in the world) was blown up by the likes of Vladimir. And treasures of mediaval Orthodox art was destroyed by the Kosovo Albanians. Not to speak of the hundreds of thousands who had to flee or who were killed. To the wall with those fanatics!!!

    Well….for a couple of reasons “troubles” in Balkans have been a pet project of mine for quite some time. Whoever is really interested in the topic can easy find related material and even communicate with people on the ground. Not many Westerners do that for, I believe, peculiar reasons.

    Vladimir would be comical if people like him weren´t that serious. And they are all the same. You can hear the same kind of trash from all the Nationalists in Eastern Europe. Word for word just with other locations and other symbols. Always the fount of civilisation, the poor oppressed robbed of their civilisation and so on and so forth ad nauseum. But nowhere worse than the Balkans.

    Agree.
    The problem is, such types had an opportunity, and they have realized it, twice so far over there, in span of 3 generations. That definitely made a lot of difference on the ground as we speak.
    It’s one thing saying all that in a pub. It’s quite another methodically “ethnically cleansing” complete regions. The euphemism doesn’t even begin to describe how that really looks like on the ground.

    But it is also true that the silent majority is sick of those people. They just can´t be bothered or else don´t dare to speak up. At least that is my experience travelling around Bosnia.

    I believe you are wrong.
    Now….that’s a big topic and probably not for a site like this, but, that’s not so simple and optimistic as you say, IMHO.
    The primary motive last time for the majority wasn’t hate against OTHER. Yes, as you’ve noticed, you always have “true believers” who do hate and are capable of anything. But…..the primary motive was, actually, “I have no choice but to join”. And, well, majority of peoples over there don’t, for historical reasons, really say in public what they think/feel in private. You, as an “outsider” were treated as, well, outsider from West. To be insider isn’t enough to be of the same religion/ethnicity/nation. You have to be from the same region, speak with the same accent too. A Catholic Croat from Istria is an outsider, for example, for a Catholic Croat from Herzegovina. The same principle applies everywhere over there.

    If somebody came in and shot the worst bigots everybody would be relieved. People like Vladimir weren´t allowed their nonsense in the time of Tito. It would have been straight to jail. Ok, no freedom of expression and no democracy.

    I see.
    Well, not quite. Dangerously simplistic, even.
    Defining a bigot there is not an easy exercise.
    For example, both Mladic and Praljak could be defined as bigots. But, compared to leadership types in West, don’t they have some, actually, high qualities? Take a look at their resumes/life history.
    As for jail, true. But, both Mladic and Praljak were successful people during Tito’s regime. Didn’t go to jail then. Then, when the environment changed, bang, they, somehow, became, by Western standards bigots, monsters, genocidal maniacs etc.
    Trying to understand that fast and easy is wrong and shall create problems again.
    You mentioned “no freedom of expression and no democracy”. Well, what then? Constant dictatorships for those peoples there? Why? That, then, means that something is wrong with them? By whose standards? Sounds racist….haha…
    The problems are much more deeper and complicated. Hence, the solutions.

    In the 80s the rot sat in and people like him were allowed to peddle their nonsense.

    The rot started immediately after WW2, I believe. But, again, we could start debating the issue for years and came up with nothing of substance. One can see it everywhere where people …”debate”…history.
    The core problem, IMHO, is actually very simple.
    This problem requires everyone to sit and openly and honestly talk about the issue.
    Now…tell me…..where in the world you can see that? Do, in West, as we speak, opposing views are debated/resolved in such a way? Westerners can’t do that for a simple thing as police violence, for example. Wanting Balkans people to do the same for several hundreds of years of bloody history sounds….patronizing and hypocritical, to say the least.
    Tito’s regime didn’t handle nationalism well, obviously.
    Now, we have West handling the same thing. You believe it’s better? I don’t.
    My point is, it’s not easy even if one wants to resolve it. The tragedy is, the most of people over thre did believe that “International Community” will help them to, finally, resolve all that. It didn’t.

    What you need is the naked self interest of an outside force. That is much more sustainable.

    Perhaps. But ,as soon it weakens, the unresolved suppressed problem erupts again.

    To the wall with those fanatics!!!

    Perhaps. That’s what Tito did at the end of the WW 2. Didn’t work, obviously.
    The fanatics, as you call them, didn’t, at the time, materialize out of thin air. They turned up from ordinary people when the iron grip of Communist rule relaxed.
    The environment breeds them. That environment needs understanding and then, hopefully, resolving.
    I don’t see how, at least not in my lifetime.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    I (re) read my post, and, naturally, felt I left some points out.
    That happens when one wants to ...."solve"....this problem in a comment on a Website.

    First of all, who is saying that the "troubles" in 90's were, fundamentally, morally wrong?

    Let's see that from a Croatian perspective, for example, first:
    They wanted an independent, sovereign state of their own. It's that simple.
    And they got it. Simple again.
    Similar to a lot of states/countries that popped up after the fall of Communism.
    Belorussia for, I guess, the least controversial example.
    Have to mention Estonia too....

    So, fundamentally, the "troubles" weren't bad/wrong for Croats.
    Of course, even among Croats you can find endless debates of "could've/should've", but, on a most fundamental level they got that state they wanted. When I say "they" I mean a majority of Croats.
    Now, about several zillions Serbs/Croats could jump at my throat with encyclopedia of rebuttals/rejections/blah blah, of course. Especially Serbs.

    Similar to Albanians in Yugoslavia. They wanted independence. They got it.
    Slovenians. Same.

    So, at least 3 ethnic groups/peoples there actually got what they wanted. That it required "blood and tears" is obvious, so what? Getting an independent state/entity usually demands that.
    Americans (this is their site after all) could try to remind us here again how they got the USA?

    Now, one can start arguing "is it worth going through all that/doing all that" to get that state/country.
    A good question.
    Is it? Why not/why yes?
    And, before majority here starts getting too cocky, well, again, how did USA get into existence?
    Was it worth?
    Yeah............

    Did Croats, for example, get exactly what they wanted is totally another question.
    Probably around 90 % of them didn't, but that's another matter.
    Like, are Americans happy with what's going on with them/their country recently.

    So, when some people say "all nationalism bad/all nationalists bad" etc. well.....the independent state of Croatia is a reality now. Part of West, majority of Croats wanted. EU, NATO, the works.
    So, Croat nationalists, fundamentally, delivered what the majority of their kin/nation/ethnic group wanted.
    For majority of Croats their nationalism was/is good. Or Slovenes.

    That Serbs are sort of on the opposite side of that success is another matter altogether.
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  146. SrGrl says:
    @Szabolcs
    I am not biased more than you are. What is biased in the fact that the territory north of the Danube was the organic part of Hungary from 896 to 1918, the Hungarian was the first nation to establish a civilized state there and the Hungarian was the largest enthnic group there. It was unrighteously taken from Hungary and given to the Serbians. It was never in Serbian hands before, they have absolutely no right for that area. During the WWII part of the territory was reoccupied by Hungarian forces, the true owners and resistance had to be dealt with. I dont think that I would have to apologize for punching a gipsy that stole my bike and refuses to return it! Serbians have been agressively changing the ethnic composition of the territory (colonizing it if you prefer that word), and denying the basic rights to use their language from native Hungarians in order to asimilate them. Just like Ukranians do it with Russians and also Hungarians. And please nobody come with ancient panslavic, World ruling bullshit, because it is pathetic.

    “Serbians have been aggressively changing the ethnic composition”. Have the Serbs burned down churches, Hungarian houses, killed Hungarians and harvested their organs? I think not…

    I agree the treaty of Trianon was very unfair to Hungary, but Hungary lost the war, and this was what the great powers imposed upon Hungary.

    Serbia lost the war with NATO. Just like Hungary in 1920, Serbia in 1999 had to accept the treaty that great powers imposed: UN 1244. UN1244 specifically states that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia.

    Then in 2008, the US unilaterally violated UN1244 by recognising Kosovo as an independent state, thereby throwing the international order into limbo and undermining the territorial integrity of Serbia.

    This was typical bully behaviour. The only reason there was so little outrage in the West was because the Serbs had been demonised for long, so nobody really cared. But if the US can do this to the Serbia, it means they can do it to every and any country .

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    • Replies: @Szabolcs
    Well, for Serbians, stealing a territory is Ok, but loosing a territory hurts badly. You have lost Kosovo for ever. A great power imposed this on you so you had better accept it. And anyway, you are greatly outnumbered by Albanians in Kosovo, so unless you commit some very nasty genocide, and you are very good at it, you will never get it back. And this is YOUR own logic I applied on YOU. But you can alternatively move your people out of Voivodina back to Kosovo, and give us back our land in exchange for yours.
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  147. Dovla says:
    @Szabolcs
    Wikipedia if you please:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1cs-Bodrog_County

    Bács-Bodrog County:
    In 1910, the county had a population of 812,385 people and was composed of the following linguistic communities:

    Hungarian: 363,518 (44,8%)
    German: 190,697 (23,5%)
    Serbian: 145,063 (17,9%)
    Slovak: 30,137 (3,7%)
    Ruthenian: 10,760 (1,3%)
    Croatian: 1,279 (0,2%)
    Romanian: 386 (0,0%)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront%C3%A1l_County

    In 1910, the county had a population of 615,151 people and was composed of the following linguistic communities:

    Serbian: 199,750 (32,5%)
    German: 165,779 (26,9%)
    Hungarian: 128,405 (20,9%)
    Romanian: 86,937 (14,1%)
    Slovak: 16,143 (2,6%)
    Croatian: 4,203 (0,7%)
    Ruthenian: 11 (0,1%)
    Other or unknown: 13,923 (2,3%)

    Total: 490,000 Hungarian, 355,000 German, 344,000 Serbian in 1910.
    Serbians were absolute minority.

    And immigration does NEVER justify for territory theft. You Serbians and Romanians are no more than petty thieves from the deep Balkans.

    Tito's thugs committed genocide agains the Hungarians just as Milosevic agains the Albanians. I have more respect for the people of Skanderbeg, than the people of Đurađ Branković, the traitor of the battle of Kosovo (1448).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_(1448)

    hey buddy,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Vojvodina

    Since first recorded census in 1787 you weren’t majority, you weren’t even plurality.

    Anyways I wouldn’t go back to middle ages, I don’t see how personal feud between Djuradj Brankovic and Janos Hunyadi is of relevance today. Or did you want to mention that as soon as the Battle of Kosovo in 1389. ended Hungarians immediately invaded from the north as Serbia was without an army and without a ruler.

    As for the Tito’s thugs, one of his top two commanders was ethnic Hungarian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosta_Na%C4%91, so you can blame him too. And speaking of genocide of Albanians, lol. When Serbs had control of Kosovo, Albanians multiplied, settled and progressed. Unfortanately, Slobodan Milosevic was no Todor Zhivkov. When Albanians had control there were no Serbs remaining. Same in Croatia. And don’t get me started on position of Serbs in Albania.

    I’ll be using different handle, someone is using Vladimir also.

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    • Replies: @Szabolcs
    The area between the Danube and the Sava rivers was part of Croatia and not Hungary. Its population was mostly slavic so it is not to be taken into consideration.
    The whole territory of Vojvodina had a vast Hungarian majority before 1526, the start of the Turkish invasion. Before the raiding Turkish armies Hungarians had to move to the northern, more protected parts of Hungary.
    This was an era of constant wars between the Habsburg Empire, the Turks and the Hungarian Principality of Transylvania, lasting 150 years.
    The destruction greatly reduced the Hungarian population which had to fight against the Turkish invaders and for its freedom against the Habsburgs at the same time.
    The Serbians started to migrate into the southern part of Hungary as part of the Thurkish military organization! At the and of the 1600's Hungary was mostly liberated from the Turkish invaders.
    After 1690 tens of thousands of Serbians arrived, led by their patriarch, fleeing from the counter-attacks of the Turkish army. The Habsburgs settled them as border defenders.
    During the Hungarian war of independence between 1703 and 1711, the Serbians fought on the side of the Habsburg oppressors.
    During the 1700's years the Hungarians continuously retuned to the territory, and more Serbians migrated in fleeing from the Turks. The Habsburgs sponsored the
    immigration of germans because they were politically reliable.
    During the war of independence between 1849-48, Serbians again were fighting against the Hungarians, burned their settlements and chased away the Hungarian population.
    In the second half of the 19th century, the territory regained its Hungarian majority, but this majority was in fact smaller than before 1526, the Turkish invasion. But the Serbians were absolute minority if we take into consideration the also large German population.
    In 1918, the Serbian army occupied the southern part of Hungary with the help of the French army! And Romanian and Czech armies were also invading our weakened country
    so we did not have any chance. After the resignation of the Habsburg Emperor our country finally became free, and a pacifist, Entente-friend prime minister took over power, whoose first decision was (sorrowfully) to disarm the Hungarian army returning trom the fronts.
    Only after that was he faced by the Entente powers plan, to take two thirds of our thousand years old country, the freedom for which we spilled so much blood in vain!
    After the Trianon treaty, the new rulers of Vojvodiana, the Serbians took the lands from the Hungarians and quickly started to destroy any sign of the land's Hungarian origin. Thousands of Hungarians lost their jods and had to flee
    to what was left of Hungary.
    During the 20th century around one million new Serbian migrated into the more developed Vojvodina from the poorer parts of Serbia. For example, the largest city of the Serbian-Croatian-Slovenian Kingdom created in 1918 was Szabadka, a Hungarian settlement, and not Belgrad or any other slavic town. Szabadka still has a 50 percent Hungarian population and most remaining Hungarians live in a block near the Hungarian border.
    This all shows that Hungarian is the native population of Vojvodina, Serbians migrated into the area during the Turkish invasion. They were hostile to Hungarians throughout the history,
    though Hungarians could have lived together with them peacefully, as with many other nation. Hungarians accepted many nation into their homeland, Germans, slavs, Romanians, nomadic turk tribes. This has proven to be their fate.
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  148. AP says:
    @Szabolcs
    The Ukranian policy Hungary objects to makes it compulsory for Hungarian kids to learn in Ukranian language above the fourth grade in primary school, in secondary shool and at the university. Every nation must have the right to learn on its mother tongue. And anyway, noone on Earth wants to learn Ukranian. Moreover noone on Earth wants to live in Ukraine. Hungarians have to live in that country because their homeland was torn out of Hungary, and given to Czechoslovakia, than to the Soviet Union and after the CCCP crumbled, they became part of Ukraine. The territory where they live is on the western side of the Carpathian Mountains, and belonged to Hungary from 895 to 1918. The 80 percent of the population is NOT Ukranian but rusyn, and they are not even recognized by Ukraine as a nation. That is because if they recognized them, they could become independent, and that is what they want. Their best chance would be to return to Hungary as an autonomous region, and become part of the EU, which they have absolutely zero chance to achieve as part of Ukraine. But they dont dare to speak out, with Ukrainian chauvinist military groups marching on their streets. Hungary should demand self determination for that region. And as for the ridiculous Venice Commission, they are in no position to tell any national group how they should live their lives. They are just singing from the music sheet of the zionists who rule Ukraine in coalition with the Ukrainian fascists.

    The Ukranian policy Hungary objects to makes it compulsory for Hungarian kids to learn in Ukranian language above the fourth grade in primary school, in secondary shool and at the university.

    Sure. But not only in Ukrainian. They will also have Hungarian-language classes all through high school. Previously it was only in Hungarian (or rather, 1-3 hours of Ukrainian per week). Students would graduate high school and be unable to go to university.

    And anyway, noone on Earth wants to learn Ukranian.

    I’m sure nobody outside Hungary cares to learn Hungarian. Should minorities within Hungary never learn the Hungarian language?

    The territory where they live is on the western side of the Carpathian Mountains, and belonged to Hungary from 895 to 1918.

    And Hungary belonged to Turkey and Austria for some times, so? Magyars originally came from Asia, did they not?

    The 80 percent of the population is NOT Ukranian but rusyn, and they are not even recognized by Ukraine as a nation.

    Most of them do not recognize themselves as a separate nation either. About 1% of those people claim to be Rusyns and not Ukrainians.

    That is because if they recognized them, they could become independent, and that is what they want.

    LOL, that must be why they vote for Ukrainian nationalists.

    But they dont dare to speak out, with Ukrainian chauvinist military groups marching on their streets.

    That’s one interpretation. Are Fidesz and Jobbik similarly preventing the people of Hungary from declaring themselves a gypsy republic, or some such nonsense?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Szabolcs
    Oh,it is of course no problem for a Ukranian, that Hungarians cannot learn in Hungarian at the Hungarian Universities. I dont expect any kind of understanding from you. And the rusyn people really exist, even if you dont recognise them. There were a legal referendum in 1991 in Kárpátalja when the wast majority woted for autonomy. Ukraine has been ignoring their decision ever since! And it seems also logical to me that people would prefer to live in a country that is part of the EU and where they can practise their minority rights, use their language freely, than in a backward country full of fascists. Just to make it clear how things stand in Hungary, concerning minority rights. The archbishop of Esztergom visited the Vatican City recently in order to lobby for gipsy language mess! I bet most gipsy doesn't even know they have their own languages! This naivity was present in Hungary also before 1918. We edducated the intellectulas of our minorities, who then turned against us, and became separatists, and lobbied at the Entente powers to give them two thirds of our country.
    And I dont know what are you getting at with Hungarians Asian origin. First, it is not proven, second, we all came from Africa in the first place.
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  149. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS
    Well….for a couple of reasons “troubles” in Balkans have been a pet project of mine for quite some time. Whoever is really interested in the topic can easy find related material and even communicate with people on the ground. Not many Westerners do that for, I believe, peculiar reasons.

    Vladimir would be comical if people like him weren´t that serious. And they are all the same. You can hear the same kind of trash from all the Nationalists in Eastern Europe. Word for word just with other locations and other symbols. Always the fount of civilisation, the poor oppressed robbed of their civilisation and so on and so forth ad nauseum. But nowhere worse than the Balkans.
     
    Agree.
    The problem is, such types had an opportunity, and they have realized it, twice so far over there, in span of 3 generations. That definitely made a lot of difference on the ground as we speak.
    It’s one thing saying all that in a pub. It’s quite another methodically “ethnically cleansing” complete regions. The euphemism doesn’t even begin to describe how that really looks like on the ground.

    But it is also true that the silent majority is sick of those people. They just can´t be bothered or else don´t dare to speak up. At least that is my experience travelling around Bosnia.
     
    I believe you are wrong.
    Now….that’s a big topic and probably not for a site like this, but, that’s not so simple and optimistic as you say, IMHO.
    The primary motive last time for the majority wasn’t hate against OTHER. Yes, as you’ve noticed, you always have “true believers” who do hate and are capable of anything. But…..the primary motive was, actually, “I have no choice but to join”. And, well, majority of peoples over there don’t, for historical reasons, really say in public what they think/feel in private. You, as an “outsider” were treated as, well, outsider from West. To be insider isn’t enough to be of the same religion/ethnicity/nation. You have to be from the same region, speak with the same accent too. A Catholic Croat from Istria is an outsider, for example, for a Catholic Croat from Herzegovina. The same principle applies everywhere over there.

    If somebody came in and shot the worst bigots everybody would be relieved. People like Vladimir weren´t allowed their nonsense in the time of Tito. It would have been straight to jail. Ok, no freedom of expression and no democracy.
     
    I see.
    Well, not quite. Dangerously simplistic, even.
    Defining a bigot there is not an easy exercise.
    For example, both Mladic and Praljak could be defined as bigots. But, compared to leadership types in West, don’t they have some, actually, high qualities? Take a look at their resumes/life history.
    As for jail, true. But, both Mladic and Praljak were successful people during Tito’s regime. Didn’t go to jail then. Then, when the environment changed, bang, they, somehow, became, by Western standards bigots, monsters, genocidal maniacs etc.
    Trying to understand that fast and easy is wrong and shall create problems again.
    You mentioned “no freedom of expression and no democracy”. Well, what then? Constant dictatorships for those peoples there? Why? That, then, means that something is wrong with them? By whose standards? Sounds racist....haha...
    The problems are much more deeper and complicated. Hence, the solutions.

    In the 80s the rot sat in and people like him were allowed to peddle their nonsense.
     
    The rot started immediately after WW2, I believe. But, again, we could start debating the issue for years and came up with nothing of substance. One can see it everywhere where people …”debate”…history.
    The core problem, IMHO, is actually very simple.
    This problem requires everyone to sit and openly and honestly talk about the issue.
    Now…tell me…..where in the world you can see that? Do, in West, as we speak, opposing views are debated/resolved in such a way? Westerners can’t do that for a simple thing as police violence, for example. Wanting Balkans people to do the same for several hundreds of years of bloody history sounds….patronizing and hypocritical, to say the least.
    Tito’s regime didn’t handle nationalism well, obviously.
    Now, we have West handling the same thing. You believe it’s better? I don’t.
    My point is, it’s not easy even if one wants to resolve it. The tragedy is, the most of people over thre did believe that “International Community” will help them to, finally, resolve all that. It didn’t.

    What you need is the naked self interest of an outside force. That is much more sustainable.
     
    Perhaps. But ,as soon it weakens, the unresolved suppressed problem erupts again.

    To the wall with those fanatics!!!
     
    Perhaps. That’s what Tito did at the end of the WW 2. Didn’t work, obviously.
    The fanatics, as you call them, didn’t, at the time, materialize out of thin air. They turned up from ordinary people when the iron grip of Communist rule relaxed.
    The environment breeds them. That environment needs understanding and then, hopefully, resolving.
    I don’t see how, at least not in my lifetime.

    I (re) read my post, and, naturally, felt I left some points out.
    That happens when one wants to ….”solve”….this problem in a comment on a Website.

    First of all, who is saying that the “troubles” in 90′s were, fundamentally, morally wrong?

    Let’s see that from a Croatian perspective, for example, first:
    They wanted an independent, sovereign state of their own. It’s that simple.
    And they got it. Simple again.
    Similar to a lot of states/countries that popped up after the fall of Communism.
    Belorussia for, I guess, the least controversial example.
    Have to mention Estonia too….

    So, fundamentally, the “troubles” weren’t bad/wrong for Croats.
    Of course, even among Croats you can find endless debates of “could’ve/should’ve”, but, on a most fundamental level they got that state they wanted. When I say “they” I mean a majority of Croats.
    Now, about several zillions Serbs/Croats could jump at my throat with encyclopedia of rebuttals/rejections/blah blah, of course. Especially Serbs.

    Similar to Albanians in Yugoslavia. They wanted independence. They got it.
    Slovenians. Same.

    So, at least 3 ethnic groups/peoples there actually got what they wanted. That it required “blood and tears” is obvious, so what? Getting an independent state/entity usually demands that.
    Americans (this is their site after all) could try to remind us here again how they got the USA?

    Now, one can start arguing “is it worth going through all that/doing all that” to get that state/country.
    A good question.
    Is it? Why not/why yes?
    And, before majority here starts getting too cocky, well, again, how did USA get into existence?
    Was it worth?
    Yeah…………

    Did Croats, for example, get exactly what they wanted is totally another question.
    Probably around 90 % of them didn’t, but that’s another matter.
    Like, are Americans happy with what’s going on with them/their country recently.

    So, when some people say “all nationalism bad/all nationalists bad” etc. well…..the independent state of Croatia is a reality now. Part of West, majority of Croats wanted. EU, NATO, the works.
    So, Croat nationalists, fundamentally, delivered what the majority of their kin/nation/ethnic group wanted.
    For majority of Croats their nationalism was/is good. Or Slovenes.

    That Serbs are sort of on the opposite side of that success is another matter altogether.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Did you see this Russian babushka dolls? Think about it!!!!
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  150. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There’s a lot of back and forth about the relative merits of the various groups in the Balkans. One thing is certain, however, and that is that the US is not located there. Yet the US sticks it’s nose everywhere, going on bombing campaigns in the Balkans, a place your average American is only dimly aware of. What gives the US the right to bomb and kill people all over the world?

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  151. @peterAUS
    I (re) read my post, and, naturally, felt I left some points out.
    That happens when one wants to ...."solve"....this problem in a comment on a Website.

    First of all, who is saying that the "troubles" in 90's were, fundamentally, morally wrong?

    Let's see that from a Croatian perspective, for example, first:
    They wanted an independent, sovereign state of their own. It's that simple.
    And they got it. Simple again.
    Similar to a lot of states/countries that popped up after the fall of Communism.
    Belorussia for, I guess, the least controversial example.
    Have to mention Estonia too....

    So, fundamentally, the "troubles" weren't bad/wrong for Croats.
    Of course, even among Croats you can find endless debates of "could've/should've", but, on a most fundamental level they got that state they wanted. When I say "they" I mean a majority of Croats.
    Now, about several zillions Serbs/Croats could jump at my throat with encyclopedia of rebuttals/rejections/blah blah, of course. Especially Serbs.

    Similar to Albanians in Yugoslavia. They wanted independence. They got it.
    Slovenians. Same.

    So, at least 3 ethnic groups/peoples there actually got what they wanted. That it required "blood and tears" is obvious, so what? Getting an independent state/entity usually demands that.
    Americans (this is their site after all) could try to remind us here again how they got the USA?

    Now, one can start arguing "is it worth going through all that/doing all that" to get that state/country.
    A good question.
    Is it? Why not/why yes?
    And, before majority here starts getting too cocky, well, again, how did USA get into existence?
    Was it worth?
    Yeah............

    Did Croats, for example, get exactly what they wanted is totally another question.
    Probably around 90 % of them didn't, but that's another matter.
    Like, are Americans happy with what's going on with them/their country recently.

    So, when some people say "all nationalism bad/all nationalists bad" etc. well.....the independent state of Croatia is a reality now. Part of West, majority of Croats wanted. EU, NATO, the works.
    So, Croat nationalists, fundamentally, delivered what the majority of their kin/nation/ethnic group wanted.
    For majority of Croats their nationalism was/is good. Or Slovenes.

    That Serbs are sort of on the opposite side of that success is another matter altogether.

    Did you see this Russian babushka dolls? Think about it!!!!

    Read More
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  152. Rurik says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Give me some proof except the one that is totally idiotic that Albanians are white Europeans,

    lightly perusing this thread

    totally idiotic that Albanians are white Europeans,

    whenever someone asks me who is white, I always respond that such things have been decided for us in the West

    basically it’s anyone who it is legal to discriminate against in ZUSA (and elsewhere in the Zio-West), and that would definitely include Albanians, (like the Belushi brothers for instance), who are definitely white based on the legal description used to discriminate against all white men

    if you were born in the ZUSA, then you can cry that you’re Albanian all day long, and they’d still tell you to take your white arse to the back of the line.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are not capable to get me either.
    Albania is the name of the state. Serbia is a name of state. Serbs, Croats, Bosnians are ethnic Slavs.
    What is the ethnic origin of Albanians?
    How Albanians did get into Serbia? Did they invade Serbia?
    Which year was the battle when Albanians defeated Serbia and some of them settled there.
    Wikipedia is idiotic in this case. And those following Wikipedia are double idiots.
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Did Wikipedia heard about Enver Hodja?
    Check it out.
    And Belushi brothers are not Albanians. They are Hungarian Gypsies. (one overdosed.)
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  153. Rurik says:
    @Kiza
    Thanks geo, I have been trying to explain the same for years now. What happened to Yugoslavia would not have happened without the ZioWahhabis, although the stupid local hates, exhibited so well in the trollish bull of so many comments here, helped the war along too much. In other words, the war in Yugoslavia would not have happened without ZioWahhabis playing on ethnic and religious conflict, but the war would have still failed to develop without the local hates.

    Another thing that I have been pointing out since I can remember, that Serbia is a dress-rehearsal for the big game (as in hunting) - Russia is now coming through. The same as when the Germanic Nazis started their Drang nach Osten for Lebensraum and resources, all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World.

    I can only hope that if we win this time again, we will be much less forgiving towards those who customarily become victims once they lose the wars they eagerly participate in.

    all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World….

    …who were (and often are) the blood enemies of the Nazis

    whenever I try to understand and reconcile the endemic hatreds in that part of the world, and the alliances between the Nazis and Bolsheviks and Zionists and nationalists and Christians (both Catholic and Orthodox) and Muslims and Jews of yesterday and today, my head spins

    The Ustaše recognized both Roman Catholicism and Islam as the national religions of the Croatian people but initially rejected Orthodox Christianity as being incompatible with their objectives.[21] Although the Ustaše emphasized religious themes, it stressed that duty to the nation took precedence over religious custom.[36] In power, the Ustaše banned the use of the term “Serbian Orthodox faith”, requiring “Greek-Eastern faith” in its place.[30] The Ustaše forcefully converted many Orthodox to Catholicism, murdered and expelled 85% of Orthodox priests[37], plundered and burnt many Orthodox Christian churches.[37] The Ustaše also persecuted Old Catholics who did not recognize papal infallibility.[30] The Ustaše altered their stance towards the Orthodox faith in August 1941 when the NDH allowed those Orthodox Serbs who held no political association with Serbia to be permitted to attain Croatian citizenship and be declared Aryans.[citation needed] On 2 July 1942 the Croatian Orthodox Church was founded, as a further means to destroy the Serbian Orthodox Church, but this new Church gained very few followers.[38]

    While initial focus was against Serbs, as the Ustase grew closer to the Nazis they adopted antisemitism.[39] In 1936, in “The Croat Question”, Ante Pavelić placed Jews third among “the Enemies of the Croats” (after Serbs and Freemasons, but before Communists): writing:

    ″Today, practically all finance and nearly all commerce in Croatia is in Jewish hands. This became possible only through the support of the state, which thereby seeks, on one hand, to strengthen the pro-Serbian Jews, and on the other, to weaken Croat national strength. The Jews celebrated the establishment of the so-called Yugoslav state with great joy, because a national Croatia could never be as useful to them as a multi-national Yugoslavia; for in national chaos lies the power of the Jews… In fact, as the Jews had foreseen, Yugoslavia became, in consequence of the corruption of official life in Serbia, a true Eldorado of Jewry.”[40]

    Once in power, the Ustaše immediately introduced a series of Nazi-style Racial Laws, sent most Jews to Ustaše and Nazi concentration camps – including the notorious, Ustaše-run, Jasenovac – where all told nearly, 32.000, or 80% of the Jews in the Independent State of Croatia, were exterminated.[41]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

    there’s a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches’ brew there to discombobulate the mind

    and now it’s the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dovla
    The Balkans are very complicated. Two most important things : hatred that Catholic church has for all things Orthodox (around thousand years of persecution) and drive to keep Russia and its proxies from warm seas - that would be British agenda (Crimean War, dismantling of the treaty of San Stefano and Congress of Berlin in 1878.).
    , @peterAUS

    my head spins
     
    and

    there’s a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches’ brew there to discombobulate the mind
     
    is understandable and that's O.K.

    I feel the same way when trying to understand modern art, for example (among other things).
    But, I don't go around lecturing people about modern art, and Hell no trying to, by force, impose my views of it.

    That is what, effectively, Western world does to Balkans, as we speak.
    Doesn't understand, doesn't try to understand it and uses forces to impose some "solutions".

    Can't be good and can't end well. Probably won't end well in not so distant future.

    BTW, that applies to the author of this article too.
    , @Kiza
    Hello Rurik,

    now it’s the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court
     
    Sorry, but this is almost irrelevant. Today's Zionists have almost nothing to do with past Jewish victims of Nazism. Zionism is ideologically closer to Nazism than it is to Judaism. Not all Germanic people were Nazis and not all Jews are Zionists, but both were/are domineering ideologies of their time. This is why the Serbs and the Yugoslavs (children from mixed marriages) would have been naive or even stupid to expect compassion from the Zionists just because of the favors that their ancestors did to the Jews. The Zionists destroyed Yugoslavia because they did not create it and because it was a dress rehearsal for hunting their much bigger prey. Zionists love to turn mono-ethnic countries into multi-racial and multi-ethnic, as long as it is not Israel, but they are not terribly keen on supporting functioning multi-ethnic countries which have a tradition. I am speculating that this could be because then the Israelis may have to accept a similar model with the Arabs, or for some other reason.

    The best prototypical model of a modern Zionist is Ihor Kolomoyskyi, probably the man who shot-down MH17. I am sure that someone will some day write a really valuable study/book about this character. There are many such Zionists operating in the shadows, but this one is operating in a rough place and got more exposed than any other.

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  154. Zimriel says: • Website
    @AP

    It’s not a rhetorical question because I, at least, have an answer: Albanians come from Kosovo; Serbs -as Slavs – come from Poland and Kievan Rus.
     
    Actually, genetics shows that Serbs are only about 15%-20% Slavic. That makes them as Slavic as African-Americans are European. Most Serb ancestry is non-Slavic, local. Serbs are locals who mixed a little bit with Slavs but adopted the Slavic language; Albanians are less-mixed locals who retained the original language. Therefore, Kosovo is native Serbian land.

    Serbs are locals who mixed a little bit with Slavs but adopted the Slavic language; Albanians are less-mixed locals who retained the original language. Therefore, Kosovo is native Serbian land.

    This argument works better as an argument that the Serbs in Kosovo and in a good part of Serbia too should re-adopt their ancestral, Albanian language.

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  155. Zimriel says: • Website
    @Seraphim
    It is not that sure that the Albanians are native occupants of the Balkans (least of all the original native "Thraco-Illyrians"). They have always been a tiny minority (they are not mentioned before the 11th century and their language recorded only in the 13th century) in a see of Slavic populations and even today Albanian population is just 5m all over the place vs 23-24 m Slavs (Serbo-Croats 14-15m, Bulgarians 7m, Macedonians 2m).
    Byzantine sources suggest that they hailed from Sicily no earlier than the 11th century.

    “Byzantine sources suggest that they hailed from Sicily no earlier than the 11th century.”

    In that case the Albanian language should look like a Sardinian / Byzantine-Greek pidgin with a lot of Arabic. But it does not. Again: it looks like a separate language family (under Indo-European), mixed in with old Latin and Doric Greek. It looks like Illyrian under edge-Greek and then Roman influence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    In the 1960s a 'wildly speculative' theory had its halcyon day. It belonged to a French writer, Zecharia Mayani, whose book "Les Etrusques commencent a parler (The Etruscans Begin to Speak)" put forth the thesis that the Etruscan language of antiquity had links to the modern Albanian language.
    The Albanian régime of Enver Hoxha eagerly grabbed it for propaganda reasons, and extended it to include the ancient Pelasgians.
    Now it is demonstrated that the Etruscans were immigrants to Italy from the regions of Anatolia (or, according to other theories, from Pannonia). Albanian language is, like most Balkanic languages, a pidgin language and the Etruscan elements in it could not have been taken from any Balkanic language, but most likely from Italic ones. The eccentric position of Albania in relation to the Balkanic 'Slavdom' and its closeness to Italy gives some weight to the affirmations of Byzantine sources (A short-lived 'Kingdom of Albania' was established by Charles of Anjou in the Albanian territories he conquered from the Byzantine Empire in 1271, with the aim of spreading Catholicism. These territories did not extend far from Durres).
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  156. Dovla says:
    @Rurik

    all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World....
     
    ...who were (and often are) the blood enemies of the Nazis

    whenever I try to understand and reconcile the endemic hatreds in that part of the world, and the alliances between the Nazis and Bolsheviks and Zionists and nationalists and Christians (both Catholic and Orthodox) and Muslims and Jews of yesterday and today, my head spins


    The Ustaše recognized both Roman Catholicism and Islam as the national religions of the Croatian people but initially rejected Orthodox Christianity as being incompatible with their objectives.[21] Although the Ustaše emphasized religious themes, it stressed that duty to the nation took precedence over religious custom.[36] In power, the Ustaše banned the use of the term "Serbian Orthodox faith", requiring "Greek-Eastern faith" in its place.[30] The Ustaše forcefully converted many Orthodox to Catholicism, murdered and expelled 85% of Orthodox priests[37], plundered and burnt many Orthodox Christian churches.[37] The Ustaše also persecuted Old Catholics who did not recognize papal infallibility.[30] The Ustaše altered their stance towards the Orthodox faith in August 1941 when the NDH allowed those Orthodox Serbs who held no political association with Serbia to be permitted to attain Croatian citizenship and be declared Aryans.[citation needed] On 2 July 1942 the Croatian Orthodox Church was founded, as a further means to destroy the Serbian Orthodox Church, but this new Church gained very few followers.[38]

    While initial focus was against Serbs, as the Ustase grew closer to the Nazis they adopted antisemitism.[39] In 1936, in “The Croat Question”, Ante Pavelić placed Jews third among “the Enemies of the Croats” (after Serbs and Freemasons, but before Communists): writing:


    ″Today, practically all finance and nearly all commerce in Croatia is in Jewish hands. This became possible only through the support of the state, which thereby seeks, on one hand, to strengthen the pro-Serbian Jews, and on the other, to weaken Croat national strength. The Jews celebrated the establishment of the so-called Yugoslav state with great joy, because a national Croatia could never be as useful to them as a multi-national Yugoslavia; for in national chaos lies the power of the Jews... In fact, as the Jews had foreseen, Yugoslavia became, in consequence of the corruption of official life in Serbia, a true Eldorado of Jewry.”[40]

    Once in power, the Ustaše immediately introduced a series of Nazi-style Racial Laws, sent most Jews to Ustaše and Nazi concentration camps - including the notorious, Ustaše-run, Jasenovac - where all told nearly, 32.000, or 80% of the Jews in the Independent State of Croatia, were exterminated.[41]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

    there's a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches' brew there to discombobulate the mind

    and now it's the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court.

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44928000/jpg/_44928801_-6.jpg

    The Balkans are very complicated. Two most important things : hatred that Catholic church has for all things Orthodox (around thousand years of persecution) and drive to keep Russia and its proxies from warm seas – that would be British agenda (Crimean War, dismantling of the treaty of San Stefano and Congress of Berlin in 1878.).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    . Two most important things : hatred that Catholic church has for all things Orthodox (around thousand years of persecution) and drive to keep Russia and its proxies from warm seas – that would be British agenda (Crimean War,
     
    thank you Dovia

    I agree with you that it all seems very complicated.

    I've talked to a few people from that region, and just like with Muslims and Europeans, they all seem to harbor more spite for some of their neighbors than for the bigger forces at play- that to me we are all pawns of.

    Croats vs. Serbs vs. Romanians vs. Albanians vs. Russians, and so forth... (not in that order)

    As an American my understanding is vastly more limited, if macro (meaningless) in my views of the region.

    I've always seen Eastern Europe as an historic bulwark between the forces (armies) of Islam vs. Christendom. A place of relentless encroachments and battles going on for century after bloody century.

    When Catholics fight Serbian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox, it feels to me like the parochial fights between the Irish and British (or British vs. Russian) using religious differences as an excuse for the greed and power-lust of the respective rulers.

    Of course I know very, very little beyond my personal experiences and reading, but there it is.

    Being of European stock, and putatively Christian culture, I have to admit that I was appalled when Bill Clinton, (we know him as 'Bubba' - a huckster and liar), violated all tenets of International law codified since Nuremburg, and bombed Serbia into submission so that Muslim terrorists (and drug and human traffickers = KLA), could take control of this ancient battleground where so many heroic Serbs died staving off the Muslim hoards, I was very saddened.

    But then what did they expect when they stupidly and suicidally allowed the Albanians to proliferate? Demographics is destiny just as 2 + 2 = 4

    ....

    my own agenda is anti-war

    I feel like all people are entitled to self-determination, and this is the key to human happiness and stability, not to mention simple justice and decency

    I wish I could wave a wand and heal the ancient hatreds so many people have for their neighbors. Catholics vs. other Christians. Sunnis vs. Shiites. Jews vs. everyone else.

    most of the enmity between us is foisted upon us by cynical leaders who want us to be at odds with each other, so that they can wield power over us.

    IMHO

    На здоровье
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  157. peterAUS says:
    @Rurik

    all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World....
     
    ...who were (and often are) the blood enemies of the Nazis

    whenever I try to understand and reconcile the endemic hatreds in that part of the world, and the alliances between the Nazis and Bolsheviks and Zionists and nationalists and Christians (both Catholic and Orthodox) and Muslims and Jews of yesterday and today, my head spins


    The Ustaše recognized both Roman Catholicism and Islam as the national religions of the Croatian people but initially rejected Orthodox Christianity as being incompatible with their objectives.[21] Although the Ustaše emphasized religious themes, it stressed that duty to the nation took precedence over religious custom.[36] In power, the Ustaše banned the use of the term "Serbian Orthodox faith", requiring "Greek-Eastern faith" in its place.[30] The Ustaše forcefully converted many Orthodox to Catholicism, murdered and expelled 85% of Orthodox priests[37], plundered and burnt many Orthodox Christian churches.[37] The Ustaše also persecuted Old Catholics who did not recognize papal infallibility.[30] The Ustaše altered their stance towards the Orthodox faith in August 1941 when the NDH allowed those Orthodox Serbs who held no political association with Serbia to be permitted to attain Croatian citizenship and be declared Aryans.[citation needed] On 2 July 1942 the Croatian Orthodox Church was founded, as a further means to destroy the Serbian Orthodox Church, but this new Church gained very few followers.[38]

    While initial focus was against Serbs, as the Ustase grew closer to the Nazis they adopted antisemitism.[39] In 1936, in “The Croat Question”, Ante Pavelić placed Jews third among “the Enemies of the Croats” (after Serbs and Freemasons, but before Communists): writing:


    ″Today, practically all finance and nearly all commerce in Croatia is in Jewish hands. This became possible only through the support of the state, which thereby seeks, on one hand, to strengthen the pro-Serbian Jews, and on the other, to weaken Croat national strength. The Jews celebrated the establishment of the so-called Yugoslav state with great joy, because a national Croatia could never be as useful to them as a multi-national Yugoslavia; for in national chaos lies the power of the Jews... In fact, as the Jews had foreseen, Yugoslavia became, in consequence of the corruption of official life in Serbia, a true Eldorado of Jewry.”[40]

    Once in power, the Ustaše immediately introduced a series of Nazi-style Racial Laws, sent most Jews to Ustaše and Nazi concentration camps - including the notorious, Ustaše-run, Jasenovac - where all told nearly, 32.000, or 80% of the Jews in the Independent State of Croatia, were exterminated.[41]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

    there's a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches' brew there to discombobulate the mind

    and now it's the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court.

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44928000/jpg/_44928801_-6.jpg

    my head spins

    and

    there’s a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches’ brew there to discombobulate the mind

    is understandable and that’s O.K.

    I feel the same way when trying to understand modern art, for example (among other things).
    But, I don’t go around lecturing people about modern art, and Hell no trying to, by force, impose my views of it.

    That is what, effectively, Western world does to Balkans, as we speak.
    Doesn’t understand, doesn’t try to understand it and uses forces to impose some “solutions”.

    Can’t be good and can’t end well. Probably won’t end well in not so distant future.

    BTW, that applies to the author of this article too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    That is what, effectively, Western world does to Balkans, as we speak.
    Doesn’t understand, doesn’t try to understand it and uses forces to impose some “solutions”.

    Can’t be good and can’t end well. Probably won’t end well in not so distant future.
     
    the Western world today is controlled by Jewish bankers and Zionists. When they destabilize a region, they're always doing what's 'good for the Zionists'. And you're right, it will not end well.

    all the strife that the ZUSA has caused or exacerbated in the East is all to benefit Israel, even if indirectly. ((Nuland))/McCain went into Ukraine (and Georgia) to punish Putin for meddling in their wars.

    Bubba bombed Serbia to impose itself on an ethnic-nationalistic Christian nation, and as Kiza has pointed out, did so to get this new century (of zio-wars IMO) ramped up, especially to menace Russia.

    right now the zio-west is doing exactly as you describe in the greater Levant, 'using force to impose its "solutions".

    what I'd like to see is the entire world recognize that their provincial animosities are nothing compared to the bigger threat we all face. The horrors of the World Wars were imposed on all the nations involved by Jewish banksters in New York and London. The horrors being waged in Ukraine today are being done so by the Kagan cabal and other Zionist Jews like Kolomoyskyi, et al.

    I believe there's nothing in this world that ((they'd)) love more than to see a massive war break out between Russia and the former Satellite states of Poland and the Baltic states and Ukraine, et al. They seem to be agitating for this relentlessly. (pardon the vulgarity) but they would cum in their pants at the prospect of millions of slaughtered Russian and Eastern Europeans. White Christians butchering white Christians. Just like ((their)) world wars. Such a deal!!!

    (just as ((they)) watch with barely restrained glee as Sunnis slaughter Shiites and vice versa)

    it is all the people of the planet vs. the Zionist Jewish banksters controlling "our" (Rothschild's) central banks.

    (I know that's simplistic)

    [but true ; ]

    BTW, that applies to the author of this article too.
     
    Saker is a myopic Russophile and can't accept that Ukrainian nationals had every right and obligation to protect themselves from the Bolshevik demons that had recently genocided millions of the world's best farmers by starving them to death. Slowly. With maximum cruelty.

    for many of these Russophiles, (Anatoly Karlin, others...) any Ukrainian (or Pole or Russian, etc..) who fought with the Nazis to destroy the Bolshevik fiend, were evil fascists fighting to 'gas Ann Frank and six million Jews in ovens'.

    They too can't see past their provincial hatreds and resentments. And so they play along with the devil's narrative of the 'Germans as the most evil thing ever!', to demonize their rivals and heap opprobrium upon them.

    IMHO
    , @Tom57
    Peter, you are the sweet voice of reason. I agree that a lot is unknowable. I for my part just know a bit about Bosnia. And it hits pretty close to home.


    It is a vicious circle. Can one break it? Not from within I believe. My personal hero is Milovan Djilas who fought on the side of Tito and then published the "New Class" For which he spent 10 years in prison. When he was interviewed in the Nineties he didn´t have a solution either.
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  158. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:

    In sharp contrast to Crimea, there was no referendum in Kosovo before or after the “independence”. A referendum of sorts is going on right now: about a third of the population has already run away from that “paradise”.
    BTW, I think NATO should hurry up and accept Kosovo. After all, just recently it accepted Montenegro run by the local mafia boss for many years (for those who don’t know, in 2015 the OCCRP named Milo Djukanovic “man of the year in organized crime” https://www.occrp.org/personoftheyear/2015/). As Kosovo is also run by the local mafia, I don’t understand why NATO is procrastinating.

    Read More
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  159. Kiza says:
    @Rurik

    all the anti-Serbian and anti-Russian nationalities that are commenting here eagerly joined them: Croatians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Galicians and so on. It is the same now when the ZioWahhabis are on the march, all the same nationalities are on the march together with the new Masters of the World....
     
    ...who were (and often are) the blood enemies of the Nazis

    whenever I try to understand and reconcile the endemic hatreds in that part of the world, and the alliances between the Nazis and Bolsheviks and Zionists and nationalists and Christians (both Catholic and Orthodox) and Muslims and Jews of yesterday and today, my head spins


    The Ustaše recognized both Roman Catholicism and Islam as the national religions of the Croatian people but initially rejected Orthodox Christianity as being incompatible with their objectives.[21] Although the Ustaše emphasized religious themes, it stressed that duty to the nation took precedence over religious custom.[36] In power, the Ustaše banned the use of the term "Serbian Orthodox faith", requiring "Greek-Eastern faith" in its place.[30] The Ustaše forcefully converted many Orthodox to Catholicism, murdered and expelled 85% of Orthodox priests[37], plundered and burnt many Orthodox Christian churches.[37] The Ustaše also persecuted Old Catholics who did not recognize papal infallibility.[30] The Ustaše altered their stance towards the Orthodox faith in August 1941 when the NDH allowed those Orthodox Serbs who held no political association with Serbia to be permitted to attain Croatian citizenship and be declared Aryans.[citation needed] On 2 July 1942 the Croatian Orthodox Church was founded, as a further means to destroy the Serbian Orthodox Church, but this new Church gained very few followers.[38]

    While initial focus was against Serbs, as the Ustase grew closer to the Nazis they adopted antisemitism.[39] In 1936, in “The Croat Question”, Ante Pavelić placed Jews third among “the Enemies of the Croats” (after Serbs and Freemasons, but before Communists): writing:


    ″Today, practically all finance and nearly all commerce in Croatia is in Jewish hands. This became possible only through the support of the state, which thereby seeks, on one hand, to strengthen the pro-Serbian Jews, and on the other, to weaken Croat national strength. The Jews celebrated the establishment of the so-called Yugoslav state with great joy, because a national Croatia could never be as useful to them as a multi-national Yugoslavia; for in national chaos lies the power of the Jews... In fact, as the Jews had foreseen, Yugoslavia became, in consequence of the corruption of official life in Serbia, a true Eldorado of Jewry.”[40]

    Once in power, the Ustaše immediately introduced a series of Nazi-style Racial Laws, sent most Jews to Ustaše and Nazi concentration camps - including the notorious, Ustaše-run, Jasenovac - where all told nearly, 32.000, or 80% of the Jews in the Independent State of Croatia, were exterminated.[41]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

    there's a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches' brew there to discombobulate the mind

    and now it's the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court.

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44928000/jpg/_44928801_-6.jpg

    Hello Rurik,

    now it’s the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court

    Sorry, but this is almost irrelevant. Today’s Zionists have almost nothing to do with past Jewish victims of Nazism. Zionism is ideologically closer to Nazism than it is to Judaism. Not all Germanic people were Nazis and not all Jews are Zionists, but both were/are domineering ideologies of their time. This is why the Serbs and the Yugoslavs (children from mixed marriages) would have been naive or even stupid to expect compassion from the Zionists just because of the favors that their ancestors did to the Jews. The Zionists destroyed Yugoslavia because they did not create it and because it was a dress rehearsal for hunting their much bigger prey. Zionists love to turn mono-ethnic countries into multi-racial and multi-ethnic, as long as it is not Israel, but they are not terribly keen on supporting functioning multi-ethnic countries which have a tradition. I am speculating that this could be because then the Israelis may have to accept a similar model with the Arabs, or for some other reason.

    The best prototypical model of a modern Zionist is Ihor Kolomoyskyi, probably the man who shot-down MH17. I am sure that someone will some day write a really valuable study/book about this character. There are many such Zionists operating in the shadows, but this one is operating in a rough place and got more exposed than any other.

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    Hello Kiza,

    thank you for the reply

    (in a way I feel I have no business participating in these threads about a region so far from my home, and who have suffered so terribly much. I just hope that less impassioned viewpoint is at least worth reading, and if not, everyone can ignore! ; )


    Today’s Zionists have almost nothing to do with past Jewish victims of Nazism.
     
    I respectfully disagree. I see the Zionists entire moral (as if!) hegemony as "justified" by the 'gas chambers'.

    Zionism is ideologically closer to Nazism than it is to Judaism.
     
    brothers in uber-racism, but not even the most racial supremacist Nazi Aryan tried to claim that only Aryan's had souls, and that God Himself put the Slavs here to serve the Aryans, as the Chabad Zionists and Orthodox Jews actually believe about themselves and the goyim.

    I am speculating that this could be because then the Israelis may have to accept a similar model with the Arabs, or for some other reason.
     
    I doubt it's anything so thought out. If you want to understand what motivates all Zionist (and liberal, progressive and Orthodox and Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic Jews), it is this:

    the goyim must be blended into a mongrel race with no appreciable heritage or culture.

    they are here to serve us, and the less connection they have to their history or ancestors, the more subservient they'll be.

    and at the same time, us Jews must immerse ourselves in a Jewish culture with an obsession for a pure Jewish blood.

    - That's Zionism, (and most of the rest of Jewish culture and motivations) in a nutshell. As far as I've been able to make out in my fifty something years on this rock.


    The best prototypical model of a modern Zionist is Ihor Kolomoyskyi, probably the man who shot-down MH17.
     
    I could not agree more!

    the quintessential Zionist Jew. Uses money looted from his victims to foist wars upon them. Loves, loves, loves to see the Gentiles slaughtering and maiming and hating each other, as he profits and profits and profits.

    A more loathsome human being it's hard to imagine. He's the Ukraine's version of our John (bloodstain) McCain.


    There are many such Zionists operating in the shadows, but this one is operating in a rough place and got more exposed than any other.
     
    Soros is another one. There are lots of them, and the world will never know a day's peace or happiness as long as these fiends are running the show.

    наздравље

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  160. AP says:

    Zionists love to turn mono-ethnic countries into multi-racial and multi-ethnic

    The best prototypical model of a modern Zionist is Ihor Kolomoyskyi

    Contradictory..

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  161. Seraphim says:
    @Zimriel
    "Byzantine sources suggest that they hailed from Sicily no earlier than the 11th century."

    In that case the Albanian language should look like a Sardinian / Byzantine-Greek pidgin with a lot of Arabic. But it does not. Again: it looks like a separate language family (under Indo-European), mixed in with old Latin and Doric Greek. It looks like Illyrian under edge-Greek and then Roman influence.

    In the 1960s a ‘wildly speculative’ theory had its halcyon day. It belonged to a French writer, Zecharia Mayani, whose book “Les Etrusques commencent a parler (The Etruscans Begin to Speak)” put forth the thesis that the Etruscan language of antiquity had links to the modern Albanian language.
    The Albanian régime of Enver Hoxha eagerly grabbed it for propaganda reasons, and extended it to include the ancient Pelasgians.
    Now it is demonstrated that the Etruscans were immigrants to Italy from the regions of Anatolia (or, according to other theories, from Pannonia). Albanian language is, like most Balkanic languages, a pidgin language and the Etruscan elements in it could not have been taken from any Balkanic language, but most likely from Italic ones. The eccentric position of Albania in relation to the Balkanic ‘Slavdom’ and its closeness to Italy gives some weight to the affirmations of Byzantine sources (A short-lived ‘Kingdom of Albania’ was established by Charles of Anjou in the Albanian territories he conquered from the Byzantine Empire in 1271, with the aim of spreading Catholicism. These territories did not extend far from Durres).

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  162. Szabolcs says:
    @SrGrl
    "Serbians have been aggressively changing the ethnic composition". Have the Serbs burned down churches, Hungarian houses, killed Hungarians and harvested their organs? I think not...

    I agree the treaty of Trianon was very unfair to Hungary, but Hungary lost the war, and this was what the great powers imposed upon Hungary.

    Serbia lost the war with NATO. Just like Hungary in 1920, Serbia in 1999 had to accept the treaty that great powers imposed: UN 1244. UN1244 specifically states that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia.

    Then in 2008, the US unilaterally violated UN1244 by recognising Kosovo as an independent state, thereby throwing the international order into limbo and undermining the territorial integrity of Serbia.

    This was typical bully behaviour. The only reason there was so little outrage in the West was because the Serbs had been demonised for long, so nobody really cared. But if the US can do this to the Serbia, it means they can do it to every and any country .

    Well, for Serbians, stealing a territory is Ok, but loosing a territory hurts badly. You have lost Kosovo for ever. A great power imposed this on you so you had better accept it. And anyway, you are greatly outnumbered by Albanians in Kosovo, so unless you commit some very nasty genocide, and you are very good at it, you will never get it back. And this is YOUR own logic I applied on YOU. But you can alternatively move your people out of Voivodina back to Kosovo, and give us back our land in exchange for yours.

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  163. While the Saker writes some good stuff when he is sober, he is increasingly living in another reality when he is drunk. This is of course a crude asumption, but how else would you blatantly call out for war in another country, where you have no stakes ?
    The purpoted robbing of lands? Give me a break there! Millions of people have been disposessed and forcibly removed from their ancestral lands, if we history to go back just 300 years, half the earths populations would be another place. Yet you never hear of their claims to their “ancestral lands”, if you go back 500 years the situation just goes to pieces, it is impossible and not possible.
    Then very sublimely advocates ethnic cleansing, namely ” If I had a an Albanian friend….” This paragraph is chilling. And it comes of a person of Slav origin. The meaning is clear: Ethnic cleansing is good as long as it is righteous… Sorry Saker, you are no friend of mine, I hope your Russian friends will lay down the line and disconnect from such hidden threats. You might not favour Muslims, but to call on genocide (That is what you do) is immoral and criminal. If you want to put blame anywhere put it on named individuals and governments, not a population or an ethnic group. No people or ethnic group is evil, it is rubbish, indviduals and governments or political parties can be evil, but you are not because of your ethnicity.
    My ancestors did not languish in Nazi camps for me to sit silent and read such rubbish.

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  164. Rurik says:
    @Dovla
    The Balkans are very complicated. Two most important things : hatred that Catholic church has for all things Orthodox (around thousand years of persecution) and drive to keep Russia and its proxies from warm seas - that would be British agenda (Crimean War, dismantling of the treaty of San Stefano and Congress of Berlin in 1878.).

    . Two most important things : hatred that Catholic church has for all things Orthodox (around thousand years of persecution) and drive to keep Russia and its proxies from warm seas – that would be British agenda (Crimean War,

    thank you Dovia

    I agree with you that it all seems very complicated.

    I’ve talked to a few people from that region, and just like with Muslims and Europeans, they all seem to harbor more spite for some of their neighbors than for the bigger forces at play- that to me we are all pawns of.

    Croats vs. Serbs vs. Romanians vs. Albanians vs. Russians, and so forth… (not in that order)

    As an American my understanding is vastly more limited, if macro (meaningless) in my views of the region.

    I’ve always seen Eastern Europe as an historic bulwark between the forces (armies) of Islam vs. Christendom. A place of relentless encroachments and battles going on for century after bloody century.

    When Catholics fight Serbian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox, it feels to me like the parochial fights between the Irish and British (or British vs. Russian) using religious differences as an excuse for the greed and power-lust of the respective rulers.

    Of course I know very, very little beyond my personal experiences and reading, but there it is.

    Being of European stock, and putatively Christian culture, I have to admit that I was appalled when Bill Clinton, (we know him as ‘Bubba’ – a huckster and liar), violated all tenets of International law codified since Nuremburg, and bombed Serbia into submission so that Muslim terrorists (and drug and human traffickers = KLA), could take control of this ancient battleground where so many heroic Serbs died staving off the Muslim hoards, I was very saddened.

    But then what did they expect when they stupidly and suicidally allowed the Albanians to proliferate? Demographics is destiny just as 2 + 2 = 4

    ….

    my own agenda is anti-war

    I feel like all people are entitled to self-determination, and this is the key to human happiness and stability, not to mention simple justice and decency

    I wish I could wave a wand and heal the ancient hatreds so many people have for their neighbors. Catholics vs. other Christians. Sunnis vs. Shiites. Jews vs. everyone else.

    most of the enmity between us is foisted upon us by cynical leaders who want us to be at odds with each other, so that they can wield power over us.

    IMHO

    На здоровье

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  165. Rurik says:
    @peterAUS

    my head spins
     
    and

    there’s a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches’ brew there to discombobulate the mind
     
    is understandable and that's O.K.

    I feel the same way when trying to understand modern art, for example (among other things).
    But, I don't go around lecturing people about modern art, and Hell no trying to, by force, impose my views of it.

    That is what, effectively, Western world does to Balkans, as we speak.
    Doesn't understand, doesn't try to understand it and uses forces to impose some "solutions".

    Can't be good and can't end well. Probably won't end well in not so distant future.

    BTW, that applies to the author of this article too.

    That is what, effectively, Western world does to Balkans, as we speak.
    Doesn’t understand, doesn’t try to understand it and uses forces to impose some “solutions”.

    Can’t be good and can’t end well. Probably won’t end well in not so distant future.

    the Western world today is controlled by Jewish bankers and Zionists. When they destabilize a region, they’re always doing what’s ‘good for the Zionists’. And you’re right, it will not end well.

    all the strife that the ZUSA has caused or exacerbated in the East is all to benefit Israel, even if indirectly. ((Nuland))/McCain went into Ukraine (and Georgia) to punish Putin for meddling in their wars.

    Bubba bombed Serbia to impose itself on an ethnic-nationalistic Christian nation, and as Kiza has pointed out, did so to get this new century (of zio-wars IMO) ramped up, especially to menace Russia.

    right now the zio-west is doing exactly as you describe in the greater Levant, ‘using force to impose its “solutions”.

    what I’d like to see is the entire world recognize that their provincial animosities are nothing compared to the bigger threat we all face. The horrors of the World Wars were imposed on all the nations involved by Jewish banksters in New York and London. The horrors being waged in Ukraine today are being done so by the Kagan cabal and other Zionist Jews like Kolomoyskyi, et al.

    I believe there’s nothing in this world that ((they’d)) love more than to see a massive war break out between Russia and the former Satellite states of Poland and the Baltic states and Ukraine, et al. They seem to be agitating for this relentlessly. (pardon the vulgarity) but they would cum in their pants at the prospect of millions of slaughtered Russian and Eastern Europeans. White Christians butchering white Christians. Just like ((their)) world wars. Such a deal!!!

    (just as ((they)) watch with barely restrained glee as Sunnis slaughter Shiites and vice versa)

    it is all the people of the planet vs. the Zionist Jewish banksters controlling “our” (Rothschild’s) central banks.

    (I know that’s simplistic)

    [but true ; ]

    BTW, that applies to the author of this article too.

    Saker is a myopic Russophile and can’t accept that Ukrainian nationals had every right and obligation to protect themselves from the Bolshevik demons that had recently genocided millions of the world’s best farmers by starving them to death. Slowly. With maximum cruelty.

    for many of these Russophiles, (Anatoly Karlin, others…) any Ukrainian (or Pole or Russian, etc..) who fought with the Nazis to destroy the Bolshevik fiend, were evil fascists fighting to ‘gas Ann Frank and six million Jews in ovens’.

    They too can’t see past their provincial hatreds and resentments. And so they play along with the devil’s narrative of the ‘Germans as the most evil thing ever!’, to demonize their rivals and heap opprobrium upon them.

    IMHO

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  166. @BoBa
    Hello Saker,

    Thank you for accurate analysis.
    Being a Serb myself i fully agree with the facts you have given in short and concise story.
    It makes me sick this days to read zionist propaganda, watch (their) media here in Serbia.

    Unfortunately we still do not have streets named after numerous victims of NATO dirty campaign in Bosnia and Serbia. Not to count increased cancer rate which happened after the bombing.
    So far victors are writing the history one day in distant future or sooner people will know what words:
    "Free army, Democratic army, Liberation army/movement...etc" means exactly:
    Pure evil gang of thugs or "Society leftovers" - no one wants them and they are us/europe/israel/nato best export this days.

    Old proverb say "What goes around it comes around" - One day this Free/Democratic/Freedom Liberators will return to their "Democratic" countries and start selling drugs and do nasty things in their NATO society - it would not make me happy but relieved that they are left for good "and scum has come back home to place where it belongs ".

    BoBa

    BoBa .. and Nov-Dec 1991 Vukovar-Ovčara is just another Ustashi Croatian whore’s dream i guess.

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  167. Rurik says:
    @Kiza
    Hello Rurik,

    now it’s the Zio-West, for whom the Serbs fought, who today are prosecuting Serbian nationalists as war criminals in their Zio-kangaroo court
     
    Sorry, but this is almost irrelevant. Today's Zionists have almost nothing to do with past Jewish victims of Nazism. Zionism is ideologically closer to Nazism than it is to Judaism. Not all Germanic people were Nazis and not all Jews are Zionists, but both were/are domineering ideologies of their time. This is why the Serbs and the Yugoslavs (children from mixed marriages) would have been naive or even stupid to expect compassion from the Zionists just because of the favors that their ancestors did to the Jews. The Zionists destroyed Yugoslavia because they did not create it and because it was a dress rehearsal for hunting their much bigger prey. Zionists love to turn mono-ethnic countries into multi-racial and multi-ethnic, as long as it is not Israel, but they are not terribly keen on supporting functioning multi-ethnic countries which have a tradition. I am speculating that this could be because then the Israelis may have to accept a similar model with the Arabs, or for some other reason.

    The best prototypical model of a modern Zionist is Ihor Kolomoyskyi, probably the man who shot-down MH17. I am sure that someone will some day write a really valuable study/book about this character. There are many such Zionists operating in the shadows, but this one is operating in a rough place and got more exposed than any other.

    Hello Kiza,

    thank you for the reply

    (in a way I feel I have no business participating in these threads about a region so far from my home, and who have suffered so terribly much. I just hope that less impassioned viewpoint is at least worth reading, and if not, everyone can ignore! ; )

    Today’s Zionists have almost nothing to do with past Jewish victims of Nazism.

    I respectfully disagree. I see the Zionists entire moral (as if!) hegemony as “justified” by the ‘gas chambers’.

    Zionism is ideologically closer to Nazism than it is to Judaism.

    brothers in uber-racism, but not even the most racial supremacist Nazi Aryan tried to claim that only Aryan’s had souls, and that God Himself put the Slavs here to serve the Aryans, as the Chabad Zionists and Orthodox Jews actually believe about themselves and the goyim.

    I am speculating that this could be because then the Israelis may have to accept a similar model with the Arabs, or for some other reason.

    I doubt it’s anything so thought out. If you want to understand what motivates all Zionist (and liberal, progressive and Orthodox and Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic Jews), it is this:

    the goyim must be blended into a mongrel race with no appreciable heritage or culture.

    they are here to serve us, and the less connection they have to their history or ancestors, the more subservient they’ll be.

    and at the same time, us Jews must immerse ourselves in a Jewish culture with an obsession for a pure Jewish blood.

    - That’s Zionism, (and most of the rest of Jewish culture and motivations) in a nutshell. As far as I’ve been able to make out in my fifty something years on this rock.

    The best prototypical model of a modern Zionist is Ihor Kolomoyskyi, probably the man who shot-down MH17.

    I could not agree more!

    the quintessential Zionist Jew. Uses money looted from his victims to foist wars upon them. Loves, loves, loves to see the Gentiles slaughtering and maiming and hating each other, as he profits and profits and profits.

    A more loathsome human being it’s hard to imagine. He’s the Ukraine’s version of our John (bloodstain) McCain.

    There are many such Zionists operating in the shadows, but this one is operating in a rough place and got more exposed than any other.

    Soros is another one. There are lots of them, and the world will never know a day’s peace or happiness as long as these fiends are running the show.

    наздравље

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  168. Tom57 says:
    @peterAUS

    my head spins
     
    and

    there’s a lot more convoluted tribal, religions, nationalistic witches’ brew there to discombobulate the mind
     
    is understandable and that's O.K.

    I feel the same way when trying to understand modern art, for example (among other things).
    But, I don't go around lecturing people about modern art, and Hell no trying to, by force, impose my views of it.

    That is what, effectively, Western world does to Balkans, as we speak.
    Doesn't understand, doesn't try to understand it and uses forces to impose some "solutions".

    Can't be good and can't end well. Probably won't end well in not so distant future.

    BTW, that applies to the author of this article too.

    Peter, you are the sweet voice of reason. I agree that a lot is unknowable. I for my part just know a bit about Bosnia. And it hits pretty close to home.

    It is a vicious circle. Can one break it? Not from within I believe. My personal hero is Milovan Djilas who fought on the side of Tito and then published the “New Class” For which he spent 10 years in prison. When he was interviewed in the Nineties he didn´t have a solution either.

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    voice of reason
     
    And that is exactly the wrong approach here.
    We think about all that. Wrong.
    One has to feel it.

    I've spent a lot of time speaking with true nationalists from all sides. Not only Balkans types.
    Plenty of them much more intelligent and educated than me. I could sit for hours and just listen to a man.
    The knowledge, erudition, flow of thought, simply impressive.
    And the core, unshakable, belief that if "we" get rid of THEM, by any means necessary, we'll have a paradise on earth.

    I agree that a lot is unknowable. I for my part just know a bit about Bosnia.

     

    I guess it goes into religion. And the religion goes into the deepest needs/traits of human nature. No idea, actually.
    But, on a practical level, that is how you can have PhD in humanities running a concentration camp. Or a devoted Christian beating to death a POW in that camp. Etc.

    It is a vicious circle. Can one break it? Not from within I believe.
     
    Agree.
    That's why, at the end, international community had to step in and impose the peace.
    But, then, that community, or better, US leadership, really fucked up.

    Instead of imposing some sort of measured Imperial justice they simply used the region for own internal/foreign policy dealings.

    On practical level, appeasing Islamic world by punishing mostly Serbs and then to a lesser extent, Croats.
    This last, with Mladic and "Croat Six" is blatant example. Even now, with Trump and what not.
    And peoples there see it.

    The real conundrum is actually very simple:
    As long as The Empire's iron grip is maintained there it will be peace there.
    A lot of people of this world want The Empire gone or at least weakened.
    As soon as that grip relaxes........bang.
    So......

    My personal hero is Milovan Djilas who fought on the side of Tito and then published the “New Class” For which he spent 10 years in prison. When he was interviewed in the Nineties he didn´t have a solution either.
     
    Yup.
    Makes you think, a?
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  169. Szabolcs says:
    @Dovla
    hey buddy,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Vojvodina

    Since first recorded census in 1787 you weren't majority, you weren't even plurality.

    Anyways I wouldn't go back to middle ages, I don't see how personal feud between Djuradj Brankovic and Janos Hunyadi is of relevance today. Or did you want to mention that as soon as the Battle of Kosovo in 1389. ended Hungarians immediately invaded from the north as Serbia was without an army and without a ruler.

    As for the Tito's thugs, one of his top two commanders was ethnic Hungarian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosta_Na%C4%91, so you can blame him too. And speaking of genocide of Albanians, lol. When Serbs had control of Kosovo, Albanians multiplied, settled and progressed. Unfortanately, Slobodan Milosevic was no Todor Zhivkov. When Albanians had control there were no Serbs remaining. Same in Croatia. And don't get me started on position of Serbs in Albania.

    I'll be using different handle, someone is using Vladimir also.

    The area between the Danube and the Sava rivers was part of Croatia and not Hungary. Its population was mostly slavic so it is not to be taken into consideration.
    The whole territory of Vojvodina had a vast Hungarian majority before 1526, the start of the Turkish invasion. Before the raiding Turkish armies Hungarians had to move to the northern, more protected parts of Hungary.
    This was an era of constant wars between the Habsburg Empire, the Turks and the Hungarian Principality of Transylvania, lasting 150 years.
    The destruction greatly reduced the Hungarian population which had to fight against the Turkish invaders and for its freedom against the Habsburgs at the same time.
    The Serbians started to migrate into the southern part of Hungary as part of the Thurkish military organization! At the and of the 1600′s Hungary was mostly liberated from the Turkish invaders.
    After 1690 tens of thousands of Serbians arrived, led by their patriarch, fleeing from the counter-attacks of the Turkish army. The Habsburgs settled them as border defenders.
    During the Hungarian war of independence between 1703 and 1711, the Serbians fought on the side of the Habsburg oppressors.
    During the 1700′s years the Hungarians continuously retuned to the territory, and more Serbians migrated in fleeing from the Turks. The Habsburgs sponsored the
    immigration of germans because they were politically reliable.
    During the war of independence between 1849-48, Serbians again were fighting against the Hungarians, burned their settlements and chased away the Hungarian population.
    In the second half of the 19th century, the territory regained its Hungarian majority, but this majority was in fact smaller than before 1526, the Turkish invasion. But the Serbians were absolute minority if we take into consideration the also large German population.
    In 1918, the Serbian army occupied the southern part of Hungary with the help of the French army! And Romanian and Czech armies were also invading our weakened country
    so we did not have any chance. After the resignation of the Habsburg Emperor our country finally became free, and a pacifist, Entente-friend prime minister took over power, whoose first decision was (sorrowfully) to disarm the Hungarian army returning trom the fronts.
    Only after that was he faced by the Entente powers plan, to take two thirds of our thousand years old country, the freedom for which we spilled so much blood in vain!
    After the Trianon treaty, the new rulers of Vojvodiana, the Serbians took the lands from the Hungarians and quickly started to destroy any sign of the land’s Hungarian origin. Thousands of Hungarians lost their jods and had to flee
    to what was left of Hungary.
    During the 20th century around one million new Serbian migrated into the more developed Vojvodina from the poorer parts of Serbia. For example, the largest city of the Serbian-Croatian-Slovenian Kingdom created in 1918 was Szabadka, a Hungarian settlement, and not Belgrad or any other slavic town. Szabadka still has a 50 percent Hungarian population and most remaining Hungarians live in a block near the Hungarian border.
    This all shows that Hungarian is the native population of Vojvodina, Serbians migrated into the area during the Turkish invasion. They were hostile to Hungarians throughout the history,
    though Hungarians could have lived together with them peacefully, as with many other nation. Hungarians accepted many nation into their homeland, Germans, slavs, Romanians, nomadic turk tribes. This has proven to be their fate.

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    This is, of course, to self-servingly forget that the Hungarians (and the 'Kozar') were themselves invaders on territories where "Slavs, Bulgarians, Vlachs and the shepherds of the Romans" or "Slavs, Greeks, Germans, Moravians and Vlachs", were the native inhabitants of what was called "Pascua Romanorum" ("the Romans' pasturing lands") since Julius Caesar ('pabula Iulii Caesaris'), i.e. Pannonia and the Puzsta.
    Hungarians quickly offered themselves as the mercenaries of Papacy against Byzantium and enforcers of the Catholicization of the Orthodox populations.
    This is to forget also that the 'Romanian invasion' was actually repelling the attack of the murderous Bolshevik Soviet Government of Bela Kun (which concomitantly was attacking Czechoslovakia).
    , @Dovla
    Hey buddy,

    so your nomadic tribe was actually very peaceful, moved into empty territory, where no one lived before and has never attacked anyone? Good one. The only part of Hungarian kingdom that you annexed peacefully was Croatia. All those crusades your medieval rulers launched on Slavic population south of Sava river were also for their own good I suppose. God knows how many invasions you launched against Wallachia and Moldova.

    And the rest? So you fled from the Turks, Serbs moved in to fight the Turks, and you started moving back 300 years later when the Turkish danger passed and that somehow gives you right to the land? Good one.

    Keep 'em coming buddy.
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  170. @SrGrl
    Sorry Elite, but that's not true:

    Russians VETOED the Srebrenica genocide resolution. Churkin said that the Western version of events was a "distortion" where the blame is "basically placed on one people". China abstained saying the claim of genocide was "politically motivated"

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bosnia-srebrenica-un/russia-blocks-u-n-condemnation-of-srebrenica-as-a-genocide-idUSKCN0PI1W620150708

    That’s flipping the card. What Russia objected to was any press that the Serbs alone were responsible for genocide. The record is clear that even they called the Serbs behavior a bridge too far and pressed them to cease that activity.

    Now we could argue which side was worse. And i would fall to the side of the Serbs as defacto the powers that be with greater means of power to exercise force, hence the NATO intervention.

    But it would be disingenuous to claim that the UN vote by Russia exonerated Serbs from claims of genocide.

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  171. Szabolcs says:
    @AP

    The Ukranian policy Hungary objects to makes it compulsory for Hungarian kids to learn in Ukranian language above the fourth grade in primary school, in secondary shool and at the university.
     
    Sure. But not only in Ukrainian. They will also have Hungarian-language classes all through high school. Previously it was only in Hungarian (or rather, 1-3 hours of Ukrainian per week). Students would graduate high school and be unable to go to university.

    And anyway, noone on Earth wants to learn Ukranian.
     
    I'm sure nobody outside Hungary cares to learn Hungarian. Should minorities within Hungary never learn the Hungarian language?

    The territory where they live is on the western side of the Carpathian Mountains, and belonged to Hungary from 895 to 1918.
     
    And Hungary belonged to Turkey and Austria for some times, so? Magyars originally came from Asia, did they not?

    The 80 percent of the population is NOT Ukranian but rusyn, and they are not even recognized by Ukraine as a nation.
     
    Most of them do not recognize themselves as a separate nation either. About 1% of those people claim to be Rusyns and not Ukrainians.

    That is because if they recognized them, they could become independent, and that is what they want.
     
    LOL, that must be why they vote for Ukrainian nationalists.

    But they dont dare to speak out, with Ukrainian chauvinist military groups marching on their streets.
     
    That's one interpretation. Are Fidesz and Jobbik similarly preventing the people of Hungary from declaring themselves a gypsy republic, or some such nonsense?

    Oh,it is of course no problem for a Ukranian, that Hungarians cannot learn in Hungarian at the Hungarian Universities. I dont expect any kind of understanding from you. And the rusyn people really exist, even if you dont recognise them. There were a legal referendum in 1991 in Kárpátalja when the wast majority woted for autonomy. Ukraine has been ignoring their decision ever since! And it seems also logical to me that people would prefer to live in a country that is part of the EU and where they can practise their minority rights, use their language freely, than in a backward country full of fascists. Just to make it clear how things stand in Hungary, concerning minority rights. The archbishop of Esztergom visited the Vatican City recently in order to lobby for gipsy language mess! I bet most gipsy doesn’t even know they have their own languages! This naivity was present in Hungary also before 1918. We edducated the intellectulas of our minorities, who then turned against us, and became separatists, and lobbied at the Entente powers to give them two thirds of our country.
    And I dont know what are you getting at with Hungarians Asian origin. First, it is not proven, second, we all came from Africa in the first place.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    And the rusyn people really exist, even if you dont recognise them.
     
    I only care, if they recognize themselves, rather than are recognized by Hungarians. Only about 1% of the people whom you consider themselves to be a separate nation, Rusyns, actually consider themselves to be the separate nation, in Ukraine. These people in other places such as Serbia, and Hungary (there are perhaps 5,000 there) think differently and consider themselves to be Rusyns, as is their right. 150 years ago Galicians called themselves Rusyns also, btw.

    There were a legal referendum in 1991 in Kárpátalja when the wast majority woted for autonomy.
     
    Local Ukrainian nationalists supported autonomy because the Kiev government was run by communists.

    This naivity was present in Hungary also before 1918. We edducated the intellectulas of our minorities,
     
    Correction: you Magyarized the tiny % of people who were intellectuals, while keeping the masses uneducated. While Galicia had full literacy of students by around 1900, the poor Rusyns were more illiterate than were people in the Russian empire.
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  172. peterAUS says:
    @Tom57
    Peter, you are the sweet voice of reason. I agree that a lot is unknowable. I for my part just know a bit about Bosnia. And it hits pretty close to home.


    It is a vicious circle. Can one break it? Not from within I believe. My personal hero is Milovan Djilas who fought on the side of Tito and then published the "New Class" For which he spent 10 years in prison. When he was interviewed in the Nineties he didn´t have a solution either.

    voice of reason

    And that is exactly the wrong approach here.
    We think about all that. Wrong.
    One has to feel it.

    I’ve spent a lot of time speaking with true nationalists from all sides. Not only Balkans types.
    Plenty of them much more intelligent and educated than me. I could sit for hours and just listen to a man.
    The knowledge, erudition, flow of thought, simply impressive.
    And the core, unshakable, belief that if “we” get rid of THEM, by any means necessary, we’ll have a paradise on earth.

    I agree that a lot is unknowable. I for my part just know a bit about Bosnia.

    I guess it goes into religion. And the religion goes into the deepest needs/traits of human nature. No idea, actually.
    But, on a practical level, that is how you can have PhD in humanities running a concentration camp. Or a devoted Christian beating to death a POW in that camp. Etc.

    It is a vicious circle. Can one break it? Not from within I believe.

    Agree.
    That’s why, at the end, international community had to step in and impose the peace.
    But, then, that community, or better, US leadership, really fucked up.

    Instead of imposing some sort of measured Imperial justice they simply used the region for own internal/foreign policy dealings.

    On practical level, appeasing Islamic world by punishing mostly Serbs and then to a lesser extent, Croats.
    This last, with Mladic and “Croat Six” is blatant example. Even now, with Trump and what not.
    And peoples there see it.

    The real conundrum is actually very simple:
    As long as The Empire’s iron grip is maintained there it will be peace there.
    A lot of people of this world want The Empire gone or at least weakened.
    As soon as that grip relaxes……..bang.
    So……

    My personal hero is Milovan Djilas who fought on the side of Tito and then published the “New Class” For which he spent 10 years in prison. When he was interviewed in the Nineties he didn´t have a solution either.

    Yup.
    Makes you think, a?

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    • Replies: @Tom57
    Actually it might not depend on the world view but on the actual quality of a man when he gets into a situation when he can decide the life or death of others. Milvan Djilas was a convinced Communist but if you read his autobiography he never forgot to mention the plight of his enemies. They were still people to him. Same the experience in the Bosnian war. You might have a Serb nationalist who was actually ashamed of what his countrymen did (I met such) and who would save some Muslim when he had the chance. You might have people of mixed heritage who would be the worst killers on the Serbian side.

    War is a mighty and terrible machine once it starts. There is no right and wrong after a while. It becomes an eternal vicious circle of atrocity, revenge, atrocity, revenge. That is where all those oh so educated nationalistic fantasists are to blame. They start a process where there is no end unless either the other nation is exterminated or else somebody steps in.
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  173. @Antiwar7
    What are you talking about? I'm not making any "land claim[s]". I'm merely pointing out that the theory that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is not generally accepted by historians, and moreover this claim has been used by Albanian nationalists to make their own "land claims".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_nationalism

    History is being continuously rewritten. It is not a science. At best it is scholarship.

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  174. @Proud_Srbin

    is still used by the Empire to try to divide Orthodox Christians and Muslim to better rule over them all or, even better, to have them fight each other.
     
    It is still TABOO for professional analysts to CLEARLY state historical FACT that for the last 700-800 years the ROOT of all EVIL in the world hails from the Island north of today's France and their western and other satraps.

    And yet, 700 years later, people are safer from violent death, healthier, richer, longer lived, freer and more numerous in a more peaceful world than they have ever been. If that is evil, point out another hegemon with a better track record.

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  175. Seraphim says:
    @Szabolcs
    The area between the Danube and the Sava rivers was part of Croatia and not Hungary. Its population was mostly slavic so it is not to be taken into consideration.
    The whole territory of Vojvodina had a vast Hungarian majority before 1526, the start of the Turkish invasion. Before the raiding Turkish armies Hungarians had to move to the northern, more protected parts of Hungary.
    This was an era of constant wars between the Habsburg Empire, the Turks and the Hungarian Principality of Transylvania, lasting 150 years.
    The destruction greatly reduced the Hungarian population which had to fight against the Turkish invaders and for its freedom against the Habsburgs at the same time.
    The Serbians started to migrate into the southern part of Hungary as part of the Thurkish military organization! At the and of the 1600's Hungary was mostly liberated from the Turkish invaders.
    After 1690 tens of thousands of Serbians arrived, led by their patriarch, fleeing from the counter-attacks of the Turkish army. The Habsburgs settled them as border defenders.
    During the Hungarian war of independence between 1703 and 1711, the Serbians fought on the side of the Habsburg oppressors.
    During the 1700's years the Hungarians continuously retuned to the territory, and more Serbians migrated in fleeing from the Turks. The Habsburgs sponsored the
    immigration of germans because they were politically reliable.
    During the war of independence between 1849-48, Serbians again were fighting against the Hungarians, burned their settlements and chased away the Hungarian population.
    In the second half of the 19th century, the territory regained its Hungarian majority, but this majority was in fact smaller than before 1526, the Turkish invasion. But the Serbians were absolute minority if we take into consideration the also large German population.
    In 1918, the Serbian army occupied the southern part of Hungary with the help of the French army! And Romanian and Czech armies were also invading our weakened country
    so we did not have any chance. After the resignation of the Habsburg Emperor our country finally became free, and a pacifist, Entente-friend prime minister took over power, whoose first decision was (sorrowfully) to disarm the Hungarian army returning trom the fronts.
    Only after that was he faced by the Entente powers plan, to take two thirds of our thousand years old country, the freedom for which we spilled so much blood in vain!
    After the Trianon treaty, the new rulers of Vojvodiana, the Serbians took the lands from the Hungarians and quickly started to destroy any sign of the land's Hungarian origin. Thousands of Hungarians lost their jods and had to flee
    to what was left of Hungary.
    During the 20th century around one million new Serbian migrated into the more developed Vojvodina from the poorer parts of Serbia. For example, the largest city of the Serbian-Croatian-Slovenian Kingdom created in 1918 was Szabadka, a Hungarian settlement, and not Belgrad or any other slavic town. Szabadka still has a 50 percent Hungarian population and most remaining Hungarians live in a block near the Hungarian border.
    This all shows that Hungarian is the native population of Vojvodina, Serbians migrated into the area during the Turkish invasion. They were hostile to Hungarians throughout the history,
    though Hungarians could have lived together with them peacefully, as with many other nation. Hungarians accepted many nation into their homeland, Germans, slavs, Romanians, nomadic turk tribes. This has proven to be their fate.

    This is, of course, to self-servingly forget that the Hungarians (and the ‘Kozar’) were themselves invaders on territories where “Slavs, Bulgarians, Vlachs and the shepherds of the Romans” or “Slavs, Greeks, Germans, Moravians and Vlachs”, were the native inhabitants of what was called “Pascua Romanorum” (“the Romans’ pasturing lands”) since Julius Caesar (‘pabula Iulii Caesaris’), i.e. Pannonia and the Puzsta.
    Hungarians quickly offered themselves as the mercenaries of Papacy against Byzantium and enforcers of the Catholicization of the Orthodox populations.
    This is to forget also that the ‘Romanian invasion’ was actually repelling the attack of the murderous Bolshevik Soviet Government of Bela Kun (which concomitantly was attacking Czechoslovakia).

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  176. AP says:
    @Szabolcs
    Oh,it is of course no problem for a Ukranian, that Hungarians cannot learn in Hungarian at the Hungarian Universities. I dont expect any kind of understanding from you. And the rusyn people really exist, even if you dont recognise them. There were a legal referendum in 1991 in Kárpátalja when the wast majority woted for autonomy. Ukraine has been ignoring their decision ever since! And it seems also logical to me that people would prefer to live in a country that is part of the EU and where they can practise their minority rights, use their language freely, than in a backward country full of fascists. Just to make it clear how things stand in Hungary, concerning minority rights. The archbishop of Esztergom visited the Vatican City recently in order to lobby for gipsy language mess! I bet most gipsy doesn't even know they have their own languages! This naivity was present in Hungary also before 1918. We edducated the intellectulas of our minorities, who then turned against us, and became separatists, and lobbied at the Entente powers to give them two thirds of our country.
    And I dont know what are you getting at with Hungarians Asian origin. First, it is not proven, second, we all came from Africa in the first place.

    And the rusyn people really exist, even if you dont recognise them.

    I only care, if they recognize themselves, rather than are recognized by Hungarians. Only about 1% of the people whom you consider themselves to be a separate nation, Rusyns, actually consider themselves to be the separate nation, in Ukraine. These people in other places such as Serbia, and Hungary (there are perhaps 5,000 there) think differently and consider themselves to be Rusyns, as is their right. 150 years ago Galicians called themselves Rusyns also, btw.

    There were a legal referendum in 1991 in Kárpátalja when the wast majority woted for autonomy.

    Local Ukrainian nationalists supported autonomy because the Kiev government was run by communists.

    This naivity was present in Hungary also before 1918. We edducated the intellectulas of our minorities,

    Correction: you Magyarized the tiny % of people who were intellectuals, while keeping the masses uneducated. While Galicia had full literacy of students by around 1900, the poor Rusyns were more illiterate than were people in the Russian empire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ted Buila
    AP some detail please re your 'final' Rusyn depiction:

    "....the poor Rusyns were more illiterate than were people in the Russian empire."
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  177. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    Margolis is a Muslim sympathizer. Take what he says with a big grain of salt.

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  178. Tom57 says:
    @peterAUS

    voice of reason
     
    And that is exactly the wrong approach here.
    We think about all that. Wrong.
    One has to feel it.

    I've spent a lot of time speaking with true nationalists from all sides. Not only Balkans types.
    Plenty of them much more intelligent and educated than me. I could sit for hours and just listen to a man.
    The knowledge, erudition, flow of thought, simply impressive.
    And the core, unshakable, belief that if "we" get rid of THEM, by any means necessary, we'll have a paradise on earth.

    I agree that a lot is unknowable. I for my part just know a bit about Bosnia.

     

    I guess it goes into religion. And the religion goes into the deepest needs/traits of human nature. No idea, actually.
    But, on a practical level, that is how you can have PhD in humanities running a concentration camp. Or a devoted Christian beating to death a POW in that camp. Etc.

    It is a vicious circle. Can one break it? Not from within I believe.
     
    Agree.
    That's why, at the end, international community had to step in and impose the peace.
    But, then, that community, or better, US leadership, really fucked up.

    Instead of imposing some sort of measured Imperial justice they simply used the region for own internal/foreign policy dealings.

    On practical level, appeasing Islamic world by punishing mostly Serbs and then to a lesser extent, Croats.
    This last, with Mladic and "Croat Six" is blatant example. Even now, with Trump and what not.
    And peoples there see it.

    The real conundrum is actually very simple:
    As long as The Empire's iron grip is maintained there it will be peace there.
    A lot of people of this world want The Empire gone or at least weakened.
    As soon as that grip relaxes........bang.
    So......

    My personal hero is Milovan Djilas who fought on the side of Tito and then published the “New Class” For which he spent 10 years in prison. When he was interviewed in the Nineties he didn´t have a solution either.
     
    Yup.
    Makes you think, a?

    Actually it might not depend on the world view but on the actual quality of a man when he gets into a situation when he can decide the life or death of others. Milvan Djilas was a convinced Communist but if you read his autobiography he never forgot to mention the plight of his enemies. They were still people to him. Same the experience in the Bosnian war. You might have a Serb nationalist who was actually ashamed of what his countrymen did (I met such) and who would save some Muslim when he had the chance. You might have people of mixed heritage who would be the worst killers on the Serbian side.

    War is a mighty and terrible machine once it starts. There is no right and wrong after a while. It becomes an eternal vicious circle of atrocity, revenge, atrocity, revenge. That is where all those oh so educated nationalistic fantasists are to blame. They start a process where there is no end unless either the other nation is exterminated or else somebody steps in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    ....an eternal vicious circle of atrocity, revenge, atrocity, revenge.
     
    Yup.
    Especially in places like Bosnia. A lot of bad history there.

    That is where all those oh so educated nationalistic fantasists are to blame.
     
    Well...that's an interesting topic.
    You'll probably find that when one actually wants to get to the bottom of it sooner or later he/she hits a wall. Or at least I did. Sense of belonging, sense of own place in the world, even in afterworld.
    Religion. Etc.
    A question of how ideas pop up in the first place? Out of inspiration by an exceptional person, or, out of environment (racial, economy, society, etc.).
    How come that those ideas find so fertile ground there? THAT is something I'd like to find an answer for.

    They start a process where there is no end unless either the other nation is exterminated or else somebody steps in
     
    Pretty much.

    As for individual/group conduct in war, especially when war crimes are concerned I believe it is a CULTURAL thing.
    One can rationalize it by payback/hatred/blah blah but I don't buy it.

    Now, dissecting and understanding that culture and cultures in Balkans/Europe/World is a BIG topic. Above my pay grade I am afraid.

    As for Djilas he wrote a couple of books and interested parties could see his journey well.
    One shouldn't forget his role in purges from split with Stalin.
    Again, cultural thing, IMHO:
    it is one thing to arrest and detain possible political opponents/suspects/possible problems. Brits did it with Germans in WW2, Americans did it with Japenese too.
    TREATMENT of those political prisoners in Yugoslavia, by former comrades is another matter.

    Like in the last wars.
    It's one thing should one want to do ethnic cleansing (which had/has pure military application-no guerrilla movement there) to arrest people there, put them into some place and then send them somewhere.
    It's quite another to do all those rapes, beatings to death etc. let alone mass executions as in Srebrenica for example.

    So....Balkans.......culture.
    Balkans ....thing.

    My 2 cents.
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  179. Ted Buila says:
    @AP

    And the rusyn people really exist, even if you dont recognise them.
     
    I only care, if they recognize themselves, rather than are recognized by Hungarians. Only about 1% of the people whom you consider themselves to be a separate nation, Rusyns, actually consider themselves to be the separate nation, in Ukraine. These people in other places such as Serbia, and Hungary (there are perhaps 5,000 there) think differently and consider themselves to be Rusyns, as is their right. 150 years ago Galicians called themselves Rusyns also, btw.

    There were a legal referendum in 1991 in Kárpátalja when the wast majority woted for autonomy.
     
    Local Ukrainian nationalists supported autonomy because the Kiev government was run by communists.

    This naivity was present in Hungary also before 1918. We edducated the intellectulas of our minorities,
     
    Correction: you Magyarized the tiny % of people who were intellectuals, while keeping the masses uneducated. While Galicia had full literacy of students by around 1900, the poor Rusyns were more illiterate than were people in the Russian empire.

    AP some detail please re your ‘final’ Rusyn depiction:

    “….the poor Rusyns were more illiterate than were people in the Russian empire.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    https://keithdarden.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/darden-natural-experiment.pdf

    Page 15:

    Budapest-controlled territory:

    "The rusyn areas West (South) of the Carpathian divide were subject to a series of incomplete schooling efforts. The Hungarian government did not attempt to educate the majority of the rural population, and Magyarized the relatively small elite that it educated. Literacy among the rusyn (largely peasant) population of Maramaros, Ung, and Bereg provinces was approximately 20% by the outbreak of World War I. Data from 1906 show no rusyn-language schools in Hungary and only 34 Rusyn-Magyar bilingual schools."
     
    Galicia, ruled from Vienna, as a contrast (page 19):

    Universal primary education was mandated by law in the Austrian Empire in 1867. In 1868, the Austrian government funded the Prosvita reading society, growing it from a minor student organization in Lviv (Lemberg) into a massive network of reading houses with Ukrainian nationalist literature in villages throughout Eastern Galicia and large “national houses” in major cities.(Naris Istorii 1993, 19). The rusyn peasantry was rapidly incorporated into this culture as schools expanded in Galicia at the end of the 19th Century... In 1886, only 380,000 children out of 709,000 of mandatory age were actually attending school in Galicia (Himka 1988, 60). This was remedied by the founding of 1,444 new schools between 1905 and 1914 in Galicia (as compared to only 2,080 from 1868-1904), half of which used Ukrainian as the language of instruction..

    In Galicia as a whole in 1880, only 17.3% of men and 10.3% of women could read and write.27 By 1900, literacy rates for the population as a whole were up to 44% (Sirka 1980, 79). By 1910, 59% of people over the age of nine were fully literate.
     
    In 1900 literacy in the Russian Empire was 24%, 20% in rural areas. By 1914, when Trancarpathia was at 20%, Russian figures had risen.

    So, under Hungarian rule, the Ukrainians of Transcarpathia were the least educated East Slavic people in the world. The effects of Hungarian mis-rule have been long-lasting. Their province remains both the poorest and the least educated in modern Ukraine.
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  180. Antiwar7 says:
    @Anonymous
    Thanks Antiwar7. It's always nice to hear from an informed party (although Ilyana_Rozumova is right - Wikipedia is unreliable). How's the situation in Serbia now? Are Soros and his NGOs influential there?

    Thanks! I assume the answer to your question is yes, though I don’t know first-hand.

    I picked the Wikipedia links because they were easy to find. The points I was making have plenty of other references. But why bother here? The only people left reading these comments have their own strong opinions (and biases), and are not looking for information.

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  181. Antiwar7 says:
    @Seraphim
    You would like to know that the 'Panslavism', decried as a 'Russian idea' and the proof of the 'Russian imperialism' against all civilized world was duty bound to fight against, was also a Croat invention:

    "The first pan-Slavists were the 16th-century Croatian writer Vinko Pribojević and the 17th-century Aleksandar Komulović, Bartol Kašić, Gundulić and Croatian Catholic missionary Juraj Križanić*. Some of the earliest manifestations of Pan-Slavic thought within the Habsburg Monarchy have been attributed to Adam Franz Kollár and Pavel Jozef Šafárik".

    *Juraj Križanić (c. 1618 – 12 September 1683), also known as Yuriy Krizhanich or Iurii Krizhanich (Russian: Крижанич, Юрий), was a Croatian Catholic missionary who is often regarded as the earliest recorded pan-Slavist... While Križanić had a strong desire to travel to Moscow with the ambitious goal of uniting the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches, he was assigned missionary duties in Zagreb, where he was a teacher at the Zagreb Theological Seminary as well as a priest in several neighboring towns...
    [Eventually] Križanić managed to secure permission from the papacy for a brief visit to Moscow from 25 October to 19 December 1647 as part of a Polish embassy. However, he was not able to secure permission for a prolonged stay until 1658 (it was retracted shortly after being issued, a fact that Križanić simply ignored) and he did not arrive in Moscow until 17 September 1659. Another author said that he pretended to be an Orthodox Serb. He was assigned the duty of translating Latin and Greek documents and preparing an improved Slavic grammar. However, he was exiled to Siberia on 20 January 1661. The reason for his exile is still unknown. Possible explanations put forward have included the fact that he was a Roman Catholic priest [as if lying that he was an Orthodox Serb had no bearing on the case], his criticism of Russian society and of the Greeks, with whom Patriarch Nikon was attempting reconciliation, and other political and social motives. Križanić postulated that he was exiled because of "some foolish thing" he had said to someone, and that whatever he had said had been mentioned to the authorities....
    He wanted to unite the Slavic nations under the Russian Tsar and unite Catholic and Orthodox [certainly under the Pope] against the German Protestants and Turkish Muslims."

    You want to laugh or cry?

    Fascinating. Thanks for the info.

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Happy to oblige!
    One should not forget that the shenanigans of Krizhanic in Russia happened on the background of the troubles created by the 'Old Believers' (who contrary to the received wisdom were more influenced by Western beliefs than it is usually admitted). The idea of Russia "The Third Rome" peddled by the Old Believers, was also a western influence, which was actually rejected by the Tsars.
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  182. AP says:
    @Ted Buila
    AP some detail please re your 'final' Rusyn depiction:

    "....the poor Rusyns were more illiterate than were people in the Russian empire."

    https://keithdarden.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/darden-natural-experiment.pdf

    Page 15:

    Budapest-controlled territory:

    “The rusyn areas West (South) of the Carpathian divide were subject to a series of incomplete schooling efforts. The Hungarian government did not attempt to educate the majority of the rural population, and Magyarized the relatively small elite that it educated. Literacy among the rusyn (largely peasant) population of Maramaros, Ung, and Bereg provinces was approximately 20% by the outbreak of World War I. Data from 1906 show no rusyn-language schools in Hungary and only 34 Rusyn-Magyar bilingual schools.”

    Galicia, ruled from Vienna, as a contrast (page 19):

    Universal primary education was mandated by law in the Austrian Empire in 1867. In 1868, the Austrian government funded the Prosvita reading society, growing it from a minor student organization in Lviv (Lemberg) into a massive network of reading houses with Ukrainian nationalist literature in villages throughout Eastern Galicia and large “national houses” in major cities.(Naris Istorii 1993, 19). The rusyn peasantry was rapidly incorporated into this culture as schools expanded in Galicia at the end of the 19th Century… In 1886, only 380,000 children out of 709,000 of mandatory age were actually attending school in Galicia (Himka 1988, 60). This was remedied by the founding of 1,444 new schools between 1905 and 1914 in Galicia (as compared to only 2,080 from 1868-1904), half of which used Ukrainian as the language of instruction..

    In Galicia as a whole in 1880, only 17.3% of men and 10.3% of women could read and write.27 By 1900, literacy rates for the population as a whole were up to 44% (Sirka 1980, 79). By 1910, 59% of people over the age of nine were fully literate.

    In 1900 literacy in the Russian Empire was 24%, 20% in rural areas. By 1914, when Trancarpathia was at 20%, Russian figures had risen.

    So, under Hungarian rule, the Ukrainians of Transcarpathia were the least educated East Slavic people in the world. The effects of Hungarian mis-rule have been long-lasting. Their province remains both the poorest and the least educated in modern Ukraine.

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  183. easy says:
    @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    Just ask yourself: what is the religion of Margolis? and then you know his agenda.

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  184. peterAUS says:
    @Tom57
    Actually it might not depend on the world view but on the actual quality of a man when he gets into a situation when he can decide the life or death of others. Milvan Djilas was a convinced Communist but if you read his autobiography he never forgot to mention the plight of his enemies. They were still people to him. Same the experience in the Bosnian war. You might have a Serb nationalist who was actually ashamed of what his countrymen did (I met such) and who would save some Muslim when he had the chance. You might have people of mixed heritage who would be the worst killers on the Serbian side.

    War is a mighty and terrible machine once it starts. There is no right and wrong after a while. It becomes an eternal vicious circle of atrocity, revenge, atrocity, revenge. That is where all those oh so educated nationalistic fantasists are to blame. They start a process where there is no end unless either the other nation is exterminated or else somebody steps in.

    ….an eternal vicious circle of atrocity, revenge, atrocity, revenge.

    Yup.
    Especially in places like Bosnia. A lot of bad history there.

    That is where all those oh so educated nationalistic fantasists are to blame.

    Well…that’s an interesting topic.
    You’ll probably find that when one actually wants to get to the bottom of it sooner or later he/she hits a wall. Or at least I did. Sense of belonging, sense of own place in the world, even in afterworld.
    Religion. Etc.
    A question of how ideas pop up in the first place? Out of inspiration by an exceptional person, or, out of environment (racial, economy, society, etc.).
    How come that those ideas find so fertile ground there? THAT is something I’d like to find an answer for.

    They start a process where there is no end unless either the other nation is exterminated or else somebody steps in

    Pretty much.

    As for individual/group conduct in war, especially when war crimes are concerned I believe it is a CULTURAL thing.
    One can rationalize it by payback/hatred/blah blah but I don’t buy it.

    Now, dissecting and understanding that culture and cultures in Balkans/Europe/World is a BIG topic. Above my pay grade I am afraid.

    As for Djilas he wrote a couple of books and interested parties could see his journey well.
    One shouldn’t forget his role in purges from split with Stalin.
    Again, cultural thing, IMHO:
    it is one thing to arrest and detain possible political opponents/suspects/possible problems. Brits did it with Germans in WW2, Americans did it with Japenese too.
    TREATMENT of those political prisoners in Yugoslavia, by former comrades is another matter.

    Like in the last wars.
    It’s one thing should one want to do ethnic cleansing (which had/has pure military application-no guerrilla movement there) to arrest people there, put them into some place and then send them somewhere.
    It’s quite another to do all those rapes, beatings to death etc. let alone mass executions as in Srebrenica for example.

    So….Balkans…….culture.
    Balkans ….thing.

    My 2 cents.

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  185. Dovla says:
    @Szabolcs
    The area between the Danube and the Sava rivers was part of Croatia and not Hungary. Its population was mostly slavic so it is not to be taken into consideration.
    The whole territory of Vojvodina had a vast Hungarian majority before 1526, the start of the Turkish invasion. Before the raiding Turkish armies Hungarians had to move to the northern, more protected parts of Hungary.
    This was an era of constant wars between the Habsburg Empire, the Turks and the Hungarian Principality of Transylvania, lasting 150 years.
    The destruction greatly reduced the Hungarian population which had to fight against the Turkish invaders and for its freedom against the Habsburgs at the same time.
    The Serbians started to migrate into the southern part of Hungary as part of the Thurkish military organization! At the and of the 1600's Hungary was mostly liberated from the Turkish invaders.
    After 1690 tens of thousands of Serbians arrived, led by their patriarch, fleeing from the counter-attacks of the Turkish army. The Habsburgs settled them as border defenders.
    During the Hungarian war of independence between 1703 and 1711, the Serbians fought on the side of the Habsburg oppressors.
    During the 1700's years the Hungarians continuously retuned to the territory, and more Serbians migrated in fleeing from the Turks. The Habsburgs sponsored the
    immigration of germans because they were politically reliable.
    During the war of independence between 1849-48, Serbians again were fighting against the Hungarians, burned their settlements and chased away the Hungarian population.
    In the second half of the 19th century, the territory regained its Hungarian majority, but this majority was in fact smaller than before 1526, the Turkish invasion. But the Serbians were absolute minority if we take into consideration the also large German population.
    In 1918, the Serbian army occupied the southern part of Hungary with the help of the French army! And Romanian and Czech armies were also invading our weakened country
    so we did not have any chance. After the resignation of the Habsburg Emperor our country finally became free, and a pacifist, Entente-friend prime minister took over power, whoose first decision was (sorrowfully) to disarm the Hungarian army returning trom the fronts.
    Only after that was he faced by the Entente powers plan, to take two thirds of our thousand years old country, the freedom for which we spilled so much blood in vain!
    After the Trianon treaty, the new rulers of Vojvodiana, the Serbians took the lands from the Hungarians and quickly started to destroy any sign of the land's Hungarian origin. Thousands of Hungarians lost their jods and had to flee
    to what was left of Hungary.
    During the 20th century around one million new Serbian migrated into the more developed Vojvodina from the poorer parts of Serbia. For example, the largest city of the Serbian-Croatian-Slovenian Kingdom created in 1918 was Szabadka, a Hungarian settlement, and not Belgrad or any other slavic town. Szabadka still has a 50 percent Hungarian population and most remaining Hungarians live in a block near the Hungarian border.
    This all shows that Hungarian is the native population of Vojvodina, Serbians migrated into the area during the Turkish invasion. They were hostile to Hungarians throughout the history,
    though Hungarians could have lived together with them peacefully, as with many other nation. Hungarians accepted many nation into their homeland, Germans, slavs, Romanians, nomadic turk tribes. This has proven to be their fate.

    Hey buddy,

    so your nomadic tribe was actually very peaceful, moved into empty territory, where no one lived before and has never attacked anyone? Good one. The only part of Hungarian kingdom that you annexed peacefully was Croatia. All those crusades your medieval rulers launched on Slavic population south of Sava river were also for their own good I suppose. God knows how many invasions you launched against Wallachia and Moldova.

    And the rest? So you fled from the Turks, Serbs moved in to fight the Turks, and you started moving back 300 years later when the Turkish danger passed and that somehow gives you right to the land? Good one.

    Keep ‘em coming buddy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    There was Valachia only and Bulgaria. I have seen the ancient maps before Magyars moved in.
    There was Romania also and Rome.
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  186. Jimmy says:

    Your article is inflammatory and implies genocide/hate mongering towards a whole ethnic group: Albanians. The region needs a way to see forward, not backward. Living together in peace, for sake of the younger generations, should be priority. Sad to see these comments here.

    Otherwise, if I may continue with your logic……Indeed, at the moment, the Serbs are “Bondsteeled” in a cage because some of their people were savages towards all of their neighbors, and this is how we have a temporary “peace”. Your question as to what would happen to Kosova if Bondsteel is no longer there…… is funny, and it is clear that your are using it rhetorically. You seem sure, the Albanians will not fight for their own land and property, and the Serbs with Russian help somehow will bring it all easily back to Serbs. You should know there are just as much Albanians scattered around as there are Serbs! Lots of naive assumptions here, as Bondsteel and the people behind it are still well, and running things. Again, with your logic….:–If they no longer can keep that camp over there, things will be way different in this world, way different. How do you know the Russians are going to be “able” to help the Serbs in that event? What if the Serbs will be asked to go and help them instead? What if China starts looking forward and Northward for some new land…..something they might see as “theirs”??

    Inciting hate, war and genocide is not only criminal, but also stupid!! Albanians, Serbs, and the rest of the Balkan lands are all the same, homo sapiens, all mortal, and all responsible for what they are going to leave their children. There is only one way forward that benefits all: mutual respect and recognition of each others right to exist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Impressive.

    I re-read this a couple of times and each time it got......better..... actually.

    I get the impression that you actually do believe all that.
    Wow....

    So.....all those people there who lost parts of their body/mind in "troubles", with family members and property too, just have to...... understand....they are all the same?

    Respect..... those who did that to them and simply ...recognize (you probably meant accept).... the current state of affairs....and....move on.....?

    Live together in peace?

    Like nothing happened?

    For the sake of their children?

    Just....wow

    Now, one could get a more cynical impression from your post.
    We fucked you up. Now, should you get into position to get even/fuck us back you, really, shouldn't do that. You know, we are all the same, should live in peace, look forward for our children etc.
    Yeah.....
    , @Anonymous

    Inciting hate
     
    You probably wouldn't believe how many of your ancestors not only hated, but butchered their perceived enemies. In many cases those enemies were a very real threat and that butchering is the only reason you exist. They'd laugh (and probably shed a tear in disappointment) at your infatuation with euthanasia.
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  187. @Parbes
    Switching to Sorosian ad hominems when you cannot answer an argument, eh? Well, I guess with a character like you, it figures...

    What is actually mentally sick, is neocon Russophobia and trying to wage so-called "Great Game" global hegemony wars against Russians, Chinese, Serbs etc. thousands of miles away from your shores, while your own small country gets negrified and Islamized by the day and gangs of Pakistanis rape and whore-ify your young girls in your own cities and towns.

    "Britannia that rules the waves" is OVER, man. Get used to it and deal with it. You're a small, ailing country with many serious problems now. Hiding under the U.S. skirt isn't going to change that.

    Why are you so obsessed with the British Empire? Do you secretly want to be British?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    Yeah genius, that's it - I must be "secretly wanting to be British". Anyone who is repulsed by the vile Russophobic Anglo chauvinism of you and your ilk, must "secretly want to be British". With this level of intelligence, you have a blindingly bright future ahead of you!

    The real question here is: Why are YOU so obsessed with hating, denigrating, and trying to destroy Russia (and China, and Serbia, and the other Eastern European countries, and other independent-minded countries, and...and...)? Why this psychotic compulsion for "sticking it" at all costs to Russia, one of the great historical European nations, while your own little island's demographics is going down the drain and the urban areas of once-great Britain are filled with gangs of Pakistanis raping and sexually enslaving young British women? Why this antipathy and hatred? WHY? Deep-seated conditioning and Cold War mental habits that you cannot overcome? Sheer malice? Petty jealousy? Irrational psychopathic tribalism? A neurotic addiction to playing geopolitical "games", with Russia as the eternal unchanging adversary? What is it, exactly?

    NEOCON IDIOT.
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  188. @Szabolcs
    The Ukranian policy Hungary objects to makes it compulsory for Hungarian kids to learn in Ukranian language above the fourth grade in primary school, in secondary shool and at the university. Every nation must have the right to learn on its mother tongue. And anyway, noone on Earth wants to learn Ukranian. Moreover noone on Earth wants to live in Ukraine. Hungarians have to live in that country because their homeland was torn out of Hungary, and given to Czechoslovakia, than to the Soviet Union and after the CCCP crumbled, they became part of Ukraine. The territory where they live is on the western side of the Carpathian Mountains, and belonged to Hungary from 895 to 1918. The 80 percent of the population is NOT Ukranian but rusyn, and they are not even recognized by Ukraine as a nation. That is because if they recognized them, they could become independent, and that is what they want. Their best chance would be to return to Hungary as an autonomous region, and become part of the EU, which they have absolutely zero chance to achieve as part of Ukraine. But they dont dare to speak out, with Ukrainian chauvinist military groups marching on their streets. Hungary should demand self determination for that region. And as for the ridiculous Venice Commission, they are in no position to tell any national group how they should live their lives. They are just singing from the music sheet of the zionists who rule Ukraine in coalition with the Ukrainian fascists.

    If the Rusyn become part of the EU, they will ultimately be forced to accept invasion by Muslims and Africans. That will endanger their physical safety, destroy their common culture, impoverish them further, and End their identity and existence as a nation.

    Now if Hungary is wise enough to leave the EU, then perhaps Hungary could be an attractive option for the Rusyn to escape from the collapsing and dying Ukraine.

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  189. Seraphim says:
    @Antiwar7
    Fascinating. Thanks for the info.

    Happy to oblige!
    One should not forget that the shenanigans of Krizhanic in Russia happened on the background of the troubles created by the ‘Old Believers’ (who contrary to the received wisdom were more influenced by Western beliefs than it is usually admitted). The idea of Russia “The Third Rome” peddled by the Old Believers, was also a western influence, which was actually rejected by the Tsars.

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  190. peterAUS says:
    @Jimmy
    Your article is inflammatory and implies genocide/hate mongering towards a whole ethnic group: Albanians. The region needs a way to see forward, not backward. Living together in peace, for sake of the younger generations, should be priority. Sad to see these comments here.

    Otherwise, if I may continue with your logic......Indeed, at the moment, the Serbs are "Bondsteeled" in a cage because some of their people were savages towards all of their neighbors, and this is how we have a temporary "peace". Your question as to what would happen to Kosova if Bondsteel is no longer there...... is funny, and it is clear that your are using it rhetorically. You seem sure, the Albanians will not fight for their own land and property, and the Serbs with Russian help somehow will bring it all easily back to Serbs. You should know there are just as much Albanians scattered around as there are Serbs! Lots of naive assumptions here, as Bondsteel and the people behind it are still well, and running things. Again, with your logic....:--If they no longer can keep that camp over there, things will be way different in this world, way different. How do you know the Russians are going to be "able" to help the Serbs in that event? What if the Serbs will be asked to go and help them instead? What if China starts looking forward and Northward for some new land.....something they might see as "theirs"??

    Inciting hate, war and genocide is not only criminal, but also stupid!! Albanians, Serbs, and the rest of the Balkan lands are all the same, homo sapiens, all mortal, and all responsible for what they are going to leave their children. There is only one way forward that benefits all: mutual respect and recognition of each others right to exist.

    Impressive.

    I re-read this a couple of times and each time it got……better….. actually.

    I get the impression that you actually do believe all that.
    Wow….

    So…..all those people there who lost parts of their body/mind in “troubles”, with family members and property too, just have to…… understand….they are all the same?

    Respect….. those who did that to them and simply …recognize (you probably meant accept)…. the current state of affairs….and….move on…..?

    Live together in peace?

    Like nothing happened?

    For the sake of their children?

    Just….wow

    Now, one could get a more cynical impression from your post.
    We fucked you up. Now, should you get into position to get even/fuck us back you, really, shouldn’t do that. You know, we are all the same, should live in peace, look forward for our children etc.
    Yeah…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jimmy
    Hi Peter,

    You seem to own the “victim” side...... i.e, the serbian side. Funny, really, as the albanians are the ones who suffered and lost the most. They (and plenty others who saw what happened seem to agree...) see themselves as the victims. They wanted to be a republic, for decades, and Slobo striped them even from “autonomy”. The had to walk on the mountains....children and women, fleeing from the barbarians whomput them in mass graves.

    Yet, your tone appears like “no way we would ever agree to peace with albanians” ! You even find it funny! Saker articles seem to also have empowered you. Well, that is unfortunate, and delusional, but not unexpected. Albanians have clearly seen far worse from you, and your kind, and are prepared for anything. You can certainly count on that!

    Just in case you wise up, life in hate is no life. So, I wish you all the best.

    Jimmy
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  191. @Dovla
    Hey buddy,

    so your nomadic tribe was actually very peaceful, moved into empty territory, where no one lived before and has never attacked anyone? Good one. The only part of Hungarian kingdom that you annexed peacefully was Croatia. All those crusades your medieval rulers launched on Slavic population south of Sava river were also for their own good I suppose. God knows how many invasions you launched against Wallachia and Moldova.

    And the rest? So you fled from the Turks, Serbs moved in to fight the Turks, and you started moving back 300 years later when the Turkish danger passed and that somehow gives you right to the land? Good one.

    Keep 'em coming buddy.

    There was Valachia only and Bulgaria. I have seen the ancient maps before Magyars moved in.
    There was Romania also and Rome.

    Read More
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  192. Jimmy says:
    @peterAUS
    Impressive.

    I re-read this a couple of times and each time it got......better..... actually.

    I get the impression that you actually do believe all that.
    Wow....

    So.....all those people there who lost parts of their body/mind in "troubles", with family members and property too, just have to...... understand....they are all the same?

    Respect..... those who did that to them and simply ...recognize (you probably meant accept).... the current state of affairs....and....move on.....?

    Live together in peace?

    Like nothing happened?

    For the sake of their children?

    Just....wow

    Now, one could get a more cynical impression from your post.
    We fucked you up. Now, should you get into position to get even/fuck us back you, really, shouldn't do that. You know, we are all the same, should live in peace, look forward for our children etc.
    Yeah.....

    Hi Peter,

    You seem to own the “victim” side…… i.e, the serbian side. Funny, really, as the albanians are the ones who suffered and lost the most. They (and plenty others who saw what happened seem to agree…) see themselves as the victims. They wanted to be a republic, for decades, and Slobo striped them even from “autonomy”. The had to walk on the mountains….children and women, fleeing from the barbarians whomput them in mass graves.

    Yet, your tone appears like “no way we would ever agree to peace with albanians” ! You even find it funny! Saker articles seem to also have empowered you. Well, that is unfortunate, and delusional, but not unexpected. Albanians have clearly seen far worse from you, and your kind, and are prepared for anything. You can certainly count on that!

    Just in case you wise up, life in hate is no life. So, I wish you all the best.

    Jimmy

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well...apparently I am making some progress on this site.

    Just not so long ago I was defined as Croat and, consequently, a Serb hater.

    Shows how perceptive people are here.

    The funny part is how you and your types don't see how schizophrenic your post is.

    "We are all the same"
    but
    "We are Albanians and they are Serbs"

    "We have to live in peace"
    but
    "We have to fight for our independence"

    And the most important, as soon as somebody hints of not agreeing with your...."all love"....message that person must be a Serb.

    And you really don't even see that.

    THAT is funny.

    What is not funny is how THIN that layer or civility is over there....your types included.

    Your first post could've deceived some naive souls around, but your second is starting to show the true colors.

    You shouldn't be afraid of showing your true colors. though, The Empire is behind you; you have all the moral rights there, apparently.
    You are the good guys.
    Apparently.
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Are somehow mentally challenged?
    Albanians have a republic. They had a republic like forever.
    And their republic is called Albania. It was always independent and was newer part of Yugoslavia.
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia. Many gypsies with permission of Yugoslavian government under leadership of Croatian president Tito let Gypsies to settle in Kosovo.

    These are basic facts! I was under impression that everybody know that!
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  193. peterAUS says:
    @Jimmy
    Hi Peter,

    You seem to own the “victim” side...... i.e, the serbian side. Funny, really, as the albanians are the ones who suffered and lost the most. They (and plenty others who saw what happened seem to agree...) see themselves as the victims. They wanted to be a republic, for decades, and Slobo striped them even from “autonomy”. The had to walk on the mountains....children and women, fleeing from the barbarians whomput them in mass graves.

    Yet, your tone appears like “no way we would ever agree to peace with albanians” ! You even find it funny! Saker articles seem to also have empowered you. Well, that is unfortunate, and delusional, but not unexpected. Albanians have clearly seen far worse from you, and your kind, and are prepared for anything. You can certainly count on that!

    Just in case you wise up, life in hate is no life. So, I wish you all the best.

    Jimmy

    Well…apparently I am making some progress on this site.

    Just not so long ago I was defined as Croat and, consequently, a Serb hater.

    Shows how perceptive people are here.

    The funny part is how you and your types don’t see how schizophrenic your post is.

    “We are all the same”
    but
    “We are Albanians and they are Serbs”

    “We have to live in peace”
    but
    “We have to fight for our independence”

    And the most important, as soon as somebody hints of not agreeing with your….”all love”….message that person must be a Serb.

    And you really don’t even see that.

    THAT is funny.

    What is not funny is how THIN that layer or civility is over there….your types included.

    Your first post could’ve deceived some naive souls around, but your second is starting to show the true colors.

    You shouldn’t be afraid of showing your true colors. though, The Empire is behind you; you have all the moral rights there, apparently.
    You are the good guys.
    Apparently.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jimmy
    Last time people talked like you, albanians ended up in mass graves! I appeal to your humanity to not spread hate and incite genocide. Many innocents have lost their lifes from these histerical longings.

    Otherwise, the albanians (wherever they live.... and there is a lot of them.......) are prepared for anything, and ready to defend. Things are indeed very very different now. You, saker, and all the rest of the zoo animals that feel bondsteeled in a cage, would be welcomed to see it for yourself, if you dare.
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  194. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jimmy
    Your article is inflammatory and implies genocide/hate mongering towards a whole ethnic group: Albanians. The region needs a way to see forward, not backward. Living together in peace, for sake of the younger generations, should be priority. Sad to see these comments here.

    Otherwise, if I may continue with your logic......Indeed, at the moment, the Serbs are "Bondsteeled" in a cage because some of their people were savages towards all of their neighbors, and this is how we have a temporary "peace". Your question as to what would happen to Kosova if Bondsteel is no longer there...... is funny, and it is clear that your are using it rhetorically. You seem sure, the Albanians will not fight for their own land and property, and the Serbs with Russian help somehow will bring it all easily back to Serbs. You should know there are just as much Albanians scattered around as there are Serbs! Lots of naive assumptions here, as Bondsteel and the people behind it are still well, and running things. Again, with your logic....:--If they no longer can keep that camp over there, things will be way different in this world, way different. How do you know the Russians are going to be "able" to help the Serbs in that event? What if the Serbs will be asked to go and help them instead? What if China starts looking forward and Northward for some new land.....something they might see as "theirs"??

    Inciting hate, war and genocide is not only criminal, but also stupid!! Albanians, Serbs, and the rest of the Balkan lands are all the same, homo sapiens, all mortal, and all responsible for what they are going to leave their children. There is only one way forward that benefits all: mutual respect and recognition of each others right to exist.

    Inciting hate

    You probably wouldn’t believe how many of your ancestors not only hated, but butchered their perceived enemies. In many cases those enemies were a very real threat and that butchering is the only reason you exist. They’d laugh (and probably shed a tear in disappointment) at your infatuation with euthanasia.

    Read More
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  195. Parbes says:
    @Philip Owen
    Why are you so obsessed with the British Empire? Do you secretly want to be British?

    Yeah genius, that’s it – I must be “secretly wanting to be British”. Anyone who is repulsed by the vile Russophobic Anglo chauvinism of you and your ilk, must “secretly want to be British”. With this level of intelligence, you have a blindingly bright future ahead of you!

    The real question here is: Why are YOU so obsessed with hating, denigrating, and trying to destroy Russia (and China, and Serbia, and the other Eastern European countries, and other independent-minded countries, and…and…)? Why this psychotic compulsion for “sticking it” at all costs to Russia, one of the great historical European nations, while your own little island’s demographics is going down the drain and the urban areas of once-great Britain are filled with gangs of Pakistanis raping and sexually enslaving young British women? Why this antipathy and hatred? WHY? Deep-seated conditioning and Cold War mental habits that you cannot overcome? Sheer malice? Petty jealousy? Irrational psychopathic tribalism? A neurotic addiction to playing geopolitical “games”, with Russia as the eternal unchanging adversary? What is it, exactly?

    NEOCON IDIOT.

    Read More
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  196. Jimmy says:
    @peterAUS
    Well...apparently I am making some progress on this site.

    Just not so long ago I was defined as Croat and, consequently, a Serb hater.

    Shows how perceptive people are here.

    The funny part is how you and your types don't see how schizophrenic your post is.

    "We are all the same"
    but
    "We are Albanians and they are Serbs"

    "We have to live in peace"
    but
    "We have to fight for our independence"

    And the most important, as soon as somebody hints of not agreeing with your...."all love"....message that person must be a Serb.

    And you really don't even see that.

    THAT is funny.

    What is not funny is how THIN that layer or civility is over there....your types included.

    Your first post could've deceived some naive souls around, but your second is starting to show the true colors.

    You shouldn't be afraid of showing your true colors. though, The Empire is behind you; you have all the moral rights there, apparently.
    You are the good guys.
    Apparently.

    Last time people talked like you, albanians ended up in mass graves! I appeal to your humanity to not spread hate and incite genocide. Many innocents have lost their lifes from these histerical longings.

    Otherwise, the albanians (wherever they live…. and there is a lot of them…….) are prepared for anything, and ready to defend. Things are indeed very very different now. You, saker, and all the rest of the zoo animals that feel bondsteeled in a cage, would be welcomed to see it for yourself, if you dare.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    It sounds rather that Albanians are ready to attack again.
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  197. Seraphim says:
    @Jimmy
    Last time people talked like you, albanians ended up in mass graves! I appeal to your humanity to not spread hate and incite genocide. Many innocents have lost their lifes from these histerical longings.

    Otherwise, the albanians (wherever they live.... and there is a lot of them.......) are prepared for anything, and ready to defend. Things are indeed very very different now. You, saker, and all the rest of the zoo animals that feel bondsteeled in a cage, would be welcomed to see it for yourself, if you dare.

    It sounds rather that Albanians are ready to attack again.

    Read More
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  198. @Jimmy
    Hi Peter,

    You seem to own the “victim” side...... i.e, the serbian side. Funny, really, as the albanians are the ones who suffered and lost the most. They (and plenty others who saw what happened seem to agree...) see themselves as the victims. They wanted to be a republic, for decades, and Slobo striped them even from “autonomy”. The had to walk on the mountains....children and women, fleeing from the barbarians whomput them in mass graves.

    Yet, your tone appears like “no way we would ever agree to peace with albanians” ! You even find it funny! Saker articles seem to also have empowered you. Well, that is unfortunate, and delusional, but not unexpected. Albanians have clearly seen far worse from you, and your kind, and are prepared for anything. You can certainly count on that!

    Just in case you wise up, life in hate is no life. So, I wish you all the best.

    Jimmy

    Are somehow mentally challenged?
    Albanians have a republic. They had a republic like forever.
    And their republic is called Albania. It was always independent and was newer part of Yugoslavia.
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia. Many gypsies with permission of Yugoslavian government under leadership of Croatian president Tito let Gypsies to settle in Kosovo.

    These are basic facts! I was under impression that everybody know that!

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Sorry Typo:
    Correct sentence:

    Are you somehow mentally challenged?

    ........never..........
    , @Art Deco
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia.

    Serbs haven't been a plurality in Kosovo since some time around 1875 and might have been 1/10th of the population by 1990.
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  199. @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Are somehow mentally challenged?
    Albanians have a republic. They had a republic like forever.
    And their republic is called Albania. It was always independent and was newer part of Yugoslavia.
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia. Many gypsies with permission of Yugoslavian government under leadership of Croatian president Tito let Gypsies to settle in Kosovo.

    These are basic facts! I was under impression that everybody know that!

    Sorry Typo:
    Correct sentence:

    Are you somehow mentally challenged?

    ……..never……….

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  200. Art Deco says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Are somehow mentally challenged?
    Albanians have a republic. They had a republic like forever.
    And their republic is called Albania. It was always independent and was newer part of Yugoslavia.
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia. Many gypsies with permission of Yugoslavian government under leadership of Croatian president Tito let Gypsies to settle in Kosovo.

    These are basic facts! I was under impression that everybody know that!

    Kosovo was always part of Serbia.

    Serbs haven’t been a plurality in Kosovo since some time around 1875 and might have been 1/10th of the population by 1990.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    So?
    Who were the 90 % ?
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  201. @Art Deco
    Kosovo was always part of Serbia.

    Serbs haven't been a plurality in Kosovo since some time around 1875 and might have been 1/10th of the population by 1990.

    So?
    Who were the 90 % ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Albanians, who were, by the way, over 60% of the population therein in 1948. Their presence there wasn't some plot by Tito.
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  202. @peterAUS

    I maintain: unless somebody from outside comes in and imposes order there will never be any development in the Balkans. Who can do it? The Empire of Chaos? No way. They just wanted their camp bondsteel and that is all they achieved.
    The Russians? No way as long as they identify solely with the Serbs.
    The EU? Much to divided itself.
    I am afraid that there is no good future for the moment.
     
    Well....if there was an easy solution to all that we would've already seen it.

    My take is: a man doesn't live by bread alone. Especially in places with a long history of oppression and confrontation. There are elements of pride, self-esteem, feelings of belonging, spiritual needs etc.
    You said, for example:

    These empires including the Turkish empire were much more tolerant that the mini nation states that succeeded them.
     
    Croats and Serbs do remember "the right of the first night" and the "blood tax", though. Among other things, of course.
    As Irish remember "Irish famine", for example.

    Actually, there is no need to go that far into history.
    25 years ago it was enough to have a wrong name and be killed on a spot, let alone "ethnically cleansed" from a land your ancestors had lived for hundreds of years. Longer than US exists as a sovereign state. Or Germany. Such memories don't go away so easy.
    I mean...haha.....if Jews (and the World, apparently) can't forget Holocaust(TM) why any of those three groups in Bosnia should forget their experience? Or Serbs/Albanians in Kosovo for that matter. It was, what, 18 year ago?
    Or it is true that some victims were/are holly and some other are worthless?
    Sounds racist, doesn't it?
    It would be funny if it wasn't as it is. Schizophrenic probably describes it well enough.

    As things go as they apparently do I suspect we'll have a next round of "troubles" in not so distant future.
    How will that unravel there, and in the wider area, I don't know.

    Man is not as rational as man (and economists) like to think. There is always an element of irrational chaos in human affairs and solutions to complex problems, like in the Balkans, are never perfect or permanent.

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  203. @survey-of-disinfo

    One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power.
     
    Too delicious: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Putin_the_Good_Goy

    That, above, is one account of "getting" Pooti-Poot to "power".

    Serbian says:


    Goodbye, Russia. We Serbs can no longer stand with you in any sort of alliance, until you're once again able to rule yourselves, until you stop trading your allies, selling them out for pennies and empty slogans. We can't be with you until you free yourself of your anti-Slavic extremists...

    Goodbye, Russia. We love you more than ourselves. For us you're a myth, like Kosovo. But as it turns out, this myth is a myth of a Russia which doesn't exist.

    (Bozidar Trifunov Mitrovic. "The Genocide of the Romans and Slavs".)
     
    "Saker", you are so transparent. My skin crawls just reading snippets of your work. Does your skin crawl when you write it?

    “Saker”, you are so transparent. My skin crawls just reading snippets of your work. Does your skin crawl when you write it?

    Haha…lol

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  204. @Cyrano

    One day we may find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power.
     
    Saker, you should know better than this. Bombing of Yugoslavia DID play a crucial role in bringing Putin to power. That's almost an indisputable fact. If the neocons are not pleased with Putin being a leader in Russia today - they should know who do they have to blame for that.

    In a little bit of convoluted logic, the bombing of Yugoslavia saved Russia. Can you imagine what few more years in power of that buffoon Yeltsin could have done to Russia?

    The aggression against Yugoslavia was a wake-up call for all Russians. It showed them that west is an enemy and that no deals that would benefit Russia are possible with the west.

    The bombing of Yugoslavia is a little bit of history repeating. In the spring of 1941, the Serbs took to the streets of Belgrade and ripped apart the unpopular pact with Nazi Germany - forcing Germany to attack their former "ally" Yugoslavia. The Serbs are still proud of this. They believe that the attack on Yugoslavia in 1941 saved the USSR. How? Well by delaying the attack on USSR. If the Serbs haven't forced Nazi Germany to attack them, Germany would have invaded USSR sooner than June 22, maybe as early as late May 1941. If the Germans had couple of extra months of nice weather to play with, the whole war in the east might have turned out differently.

    As I said, history repeating itself. Serbia saving Russia.

    You are the only one with whom I generally agree.
    Except in 1941 there was no Yugoslavia. Only Greater Serbia.
    Yugoslavia was created after war by Stalin on the request of Tito with representation of Communist parties of different states.

    Concerning comments on this article are almost all totally idiotic.

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  205. @Rurik
    lightly perusing this thread

    totally idiotic that Albanians are white Europeans,
     
    whenever someone asks me who is white, I always respond that such things have been decided for us in the West

    basically it's anyone who it is legal to discriminate against in ZUSA (and elsewhere in the Zio-West), and that would definitely include Albanians, (like the Belushi brothers for instance), who are definitely white based on the legal description used to discriminate against all white men

    http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/81/f2/1b/81f21b4c434ac1ece02b789fd655ac7b.jpg

    if you were born in the ZUSA, then you can cry that you're Albanian all day long, and they'd still tell you to take your white arse to the back of the line.

    You are not capable to get me either.
    Albania is the name of the state. Serbia is a name of state. Serbs, Croats, Bosnians are ethnic Slavs.
    What is the ethnic origin of Albanians?
    How Albanians did get into Serbia? Did they invade Serbia?
    Which year was the battle when Albanians defeated Serbia and some of them settled there.
    Wikipedia is idiotic in this case. And those following Wikipedia are double idiots.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    What is the ethnic origin of Albanians?
     
    mildly curious I did a quick search

    https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12554/why-were-albanians-the-only-nation-in-the-balkans-who-converted-to-islam-during

    there's some interesting info there

    let me ask you..

    if you looked at an Albanian and a Serb, could you tell them apart by looking?

    from the link:

    Over the next couple of centuries, the remaining Albanian population was further diluted through the immigration of Muslims from elsewhere in the Ottoman empire.
     
    did the Albanians suffer what famously (True Romance) happened to the blue eyed blondes of Sicily?
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  206. @Rurik
    lightly perusing this thread

    totally idiotic that Albanians are white Europeans,
     
    whenever someone asks me who is white, I always respond that such things have been decided for us in the West

    basically it's anyone who it is legal to discriminate against in ZUSA (and elsewhere in the Zio-West), and that would definitely include Albanians, (like the Belushi brothers for instance), who are definitely white based on the legal description used to discriminate against all white men

    http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/81/f2/1b/81f21b4c434ac1ece02b789fd655ac7b.jpg

    if you were born in the ZUSA, then you can cry that you're Albanian all day long, and they'd still tell you to take your white arse to the back of the line.

    Did Wikipedia heard about Enver Hodja?
    Check it out.
    And Belushi brothers are not Albanians. They are Hungarian Gypsies. (one overdosed.)

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  207. Rurik says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are not capable to get me either.
    Albania is the name of the state. Serbia is a name of state. Serbs, Croats, Bosnians are ethnic Slavs.
    What is the ethnic origin of Albanians?
    How Albanians did get into Serbia? Did they invade Serbia?
    Which year was the battle when Albanians defeated Serbia and some of them settled there.
    Wikipedia is idiotic in this case. And those following Wikipedia are double idiots.

    What is the ethnic origin of Albanians?

    mildly curious I did a quick search

    https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12554/why-were-albanians-the-only-nation-in-the-balkans-who-converted-to-islam-during

    there’s some interesting info there

    let me ask you..

    if you looked at an Albanian and a Serb, could you tell them apart by looking?

    from the link:

    Over the next couple of centuries, the remaining Albanian population was further diluted through the immigration of Muslims from elsewhere in the Ottoman empire.

    did the Albanians suffer what famously (True Romance) happened to the blue eyed blondes of Sicily?

    Read More
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  208. Art Deco says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    So?
    Who were the 90 % ?

    Albanians, who were, by the way, over 60% of the population therein in 1948. Their presence there wasn’t some plot by Tito.

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  209. My2cents says:
    @anony-mouse
    Golly gosh I don't know what to think.

    Just a little more than a week ago:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/eric-margolis/remembering-bosnias-horrors/

    The Eric Margolis peace is one American/Canadian peace of propaganda.
    Milosevic was found innocent of all allegations.
    The 8000 Muslim deaths was an invention, a cruel hoax.
    Every war crimes tribunal since WW2 served solely to point the finger at one party and to cover up the war crimes of US/NATO

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    The 8000 Muslim deaths was an invention, a cruel hoax.
     
    Correct.

    But, 3500 Muslim deaths, apparently, wasn't either an invention or a cruel hoax.

    Of those, apparently, around 1000 were executed in/around Srebrenica proper, the rest, 2500, were killed along the escape route to Tuzla.

    Those 1000 executed were herded, lined up in groups, and shot.

    Those 2500 killed were a mix of shelling, infantry combat and, again, executing captured on/around the spot.

    Even Serbs don't dispute that. They call it "crime", but not "genocide" and dispute the numbers.
    Even the most apologetic among them do concede to around 1000 (like, it was revenge killings, on spot, of around that number).Now, how can 1000 men be killed in a spur of a moment, in a fit of rage, by some guys hell bent on revenge/retribution is another matter.........

    Whoever wants (probably 1 % here, tops...) to keep digging, an interesting bit, perhaps:
    Serbs, themselves, wanted those responsible in Srebrenica put to trial, but, the "International Community" had other ideas.

    The same applies to similar crimes in Kosovo.
    Both sides did them.
    But......

    The "International Community" approach to assigning the blame, putting people to trial, and especially sentencing, has been..............peculiar, though. To say the least.
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  210. peterAUS says:
    @My2cents
    The Eric Margolis peace is one American/Canadian peace of propaganda.
    Milosevic was found innocent of all allegations.
    The 8000 Muslim deaths was an invention, a cruel hoax.
    Every war crimes tribunal since WW2 served solely to point the finger at one party and to cover up the war crimes of US/NATO

    The 8000 Muslim deaths was an invention, a cruel hoax.

    Correct.

    But, 3500 Muslim deaths, apparently, wasn’t either an invention or a cruel hoax.

    Of those, apparently, around 1000 were executed in/around Srebrenica proper, the rest, 2500, were killed along the escape route to Tuzla.

    Those 1000 executed were herded, lined up in groups, and shot.

    Those 2500 killed were a mix of shelling, infantry combat and, again, executing captured on/around the spot.

    Even Serbs don’t dispute that. They call it “crime”, but not “genocide” and dispute the numbers.
    Even the most apologetic among them do concede to around 1000 (like, it was revenge killings, on spot, of around that number).Now, how can 1000 men be killed in a spur of a moment, in a fit of rage, by some guys hell bent on revenge/retribution is another matter………

    Whoever wants (probably 1 % here, tops…) to keep digging, an interesting bit, perhaps:
    Serbs, themselves, wanted those responsible in Srebrenica put to trial, but, the “International Community” had other ideas.

    The same applies to similar crimes in Kosovo.
    Both sides did them.
    But……

    The “International Community” approach to assigning the blame, putting people to trial, and especially sentencing, has been…………..peculiar, though. To say the least.

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  211. Archaeologists have come to the conclusion that these regions were inhabited from the middle of the third millennium BC by Indo-European people who spoke a Proto-Greek language.

    Here I did tell you!!!!! Albanians are Thugs from India.

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  212. I am convinced that title of this article is silly. And I tell you why.
    Last news I had from so called Independent State of Kosovo a quarter century ago was that Kosovo Gypsies were killing Serbs and selling the body organs to Israel. There is no news from Kosovo anymore.
    There is well know fact about Gypsies that they were killing people with golden teeth or golden fillings. and pulling out golden teeth and selling them to Jewish Goldsmiths.
    I am certain that all of them moved to West. I bet anything that if You visit Kosovo today you would find only abandoned ruined houses. Broken fences and fields overgrowing with weeds.
    If the Serbs move back there they do not need to liberate it. not many souls are there anymore.
    They need to settle it again.

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  213. Here is the truth about Bosnia, Srebenica et all.
    Bosnians are very docile peaceful and complacent people. (with funny clothes.)

    (Here is a note to Saker:
    Chetnik in Serb is simply policeman.
    After creation of Yugoslavia Stalin and Tito insisted that on all territories the police force to be all Serbs, because Stalin did not trust anybody except Serbs. Although leader of partisans was Croatian Tito (exceptional stud who kept screwing all partisan ladies,) practically all his subordinates were communist Serbs.

    Ustasha was Croatian paramilitary unit that was ethnically cleansing Croatia from Gypsies Jews and
    even Serbs.

    Continuing with a main theme.
    Bosnians certainly are not rabble-raisers.
    US was dead set on breaking up Yugoslavia. So through his seventeen intelligence agencies,
    hired several thousand Muslim terrorists from Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Chechnya.
    (At those times they were not labeled terrorists. They were called heroic mujaheddin.)
    These were the ones that started killing Serb policeman (Chetniks) and eventually started ethnic
    cleansing of Bosnia. That continued until they reached densely populated Serb enclave in Bosnia.
    How many Bosnian Muslims did join this savage force of American mercenaries we do not know.
    But the fact is that these were mercenaries, and so the Geneva convention certainly does not apply.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Impressive.

    I am not quite sure are you doing an (epic) trolling here or actually do believe what you've written in these two posts.

    If former, well, it's a bit crude; you could've omitted a couple of blatant errors and, besides, the best way to troll topics like this is simply to strongly favor one side. Ensuing...debate.....is then interesting to watch.

    If later, though, well........it's fine. If this type of writing helps no prob.

    Still, the topic is serious and we, really, have to keep some quality here.
    That's why I just had to write this comment.
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  214. peterAUS says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Here is the truth about Bosnia, Srebenica et all.
    Bosnians are very docile peaceful and complacent people. (with funny clothes.)

    (Here is a note to Saker:
    Chetnik in Serb is simply policeman.
    After creation of Yugoslavia Stalin and Tito insisted that on all territories the police force to be all Serbs, because Stalin did not trust anybody except Serbs. Although leader of partisans was Croatian Tito (exceptional stud who kept screwing all partisan ladies,) practically all his subordinates were communist Serbs.

    Ustasha was Croatian paramilitary unit that was ethnically cleansing Croatia from Gypsies Jews and
    even Serbs.

    Continuing with a main theme.
    Bosnians certainly are not rabble-raisers.
    US was dead set on breaking up Yugoslavia. So through his seventeen intelligence agencies,
    hired several thousand Muslim terrorists from Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Chechnya.
    (At those times they were not labeled terrorists. They were called heroic mujaheddin.)
    These were the ones that started killing Serb policeman (Chetniks) and eventually started ethnic
    cleansing of Bosnia. That continued until they reached densely populated Serb enclave in Bosnia.
    How many Bosnian Muslims did join this savage force of American mercenaries we do not know.
    But the fact is that these were mercenaries, and so the Geneva convention certainly does not apply.

    Impressive.

    I am not quite sure are you doing an (epic) trolling here or actually do believe what you’ve written in these two posts.

    If former, well, it’s a bit crude; you could’ve omitted a couple of blatant errors and, besides, the best way to troll topics like this is simply to strongly favor one side. Ensuing…debate…..is then interesting to watch.

    If later, though, well……..it’s fine. If this type of writing helps no prob.

    Still, the topic is serious and we, really, have to keep some quality here.
    That’s why I just had to write this comment.

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  215. You did not contest one of my claims! Why?
    Are you an editor?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well....you could've posted all those three into one; just use paragraphs.

    As for

    You did not contest one of my claims! Why?
     
    For the same reasons I don't contest claims that the Earth is flat.

    This is in the same category:

    Chetnik in Serb is simply policeman.
    After creation of Yugoslavia Stalin and Tito insisted that on all territories the police force to be all Serbs, because Stalin did not trust anybody except Serbs.
     
    Nothing you wrote in that paragraph is correct.

    Why you don't read a couple of books about that part of the world.
    True, all are biased. That's what research is all about.

    Judging from your attitude re Serbs this would be a good start:
    https://www.amazon.com/Fools-Crusade-Yugoslavia-Western-Delusions/dp/158367084X

    And then I'd suggest going through transcripts from Hague. Pick a case and go through all that, page by page. Skip the legal procedures and carefully read all the rest. Especially cross-examinations of witnesses.

    Just an idea.
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  216. You mean the quality of copy and paste from everywhere.
    I did notice tendency in most of the people that if something is copied and pasted then that is absolute
    holy truth. You are naive and insignificant.

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  217. I did read a few of your comments. You are gatekeeper for Anglo Zionist empire.
    You write stupidities (very nicely though) And no facts.
    You are a Globalist POS.

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  218. peterAUS says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You did not contest one of my claims! Why?
    Are you an editor?

    Well….you could’ve posted all those three into one; just use paragraphs.

    As for

    You did not contest one of my claims! Why?

    For the same reasons I don’t contest claims that the Earth is flat.

    This is in the same category:

    Chetnik in Serb is simply policeman.
    After creation of Yugoslavia Stalin and Tito insisted that on all territories the police force to be all Serbs, because Stalin did not trust anybody except Serbs.

    Nothing you wrote in that paragraph is correct.

    Why you don’t read a couple of books about that part of the world.
    True, all are biased. That’s what research is all about.

    Judging from your attitude re Serbs this would be a good start:

    https://www.amazon.com/Fools-Crusade-Yugoslavia-Western-Delusions/dp/158367084X

    And then I’d suggest going through transcripts from Hague. Pick a case and go through all that, page by page. Skip the legal procedures and carefully read all the rest. Especially cross-examinations of witnesses.

    Just an idea.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I have lived through that period moron.
    And my older brother was in Communist party. So I heard and new everything what was happening.
    And you dare to say to me that everything I did write there is false.
    I do not need to read FN anything.
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  219. @peterAUS
    Well....you could've posted all those three into one; just use paragraphs.

    As for

    You did not contest one of my claims! Why?
     
    For the same reasons I don't contest claims that the Earth is flat.

    This is in the same category:

    Chetnik in Serb is simply policeman.
    After creation of Yugoslavia Stalin and Tito insisted that on all territories the police force to be all Serbs, because Stalin did not trust anybody except Serbs.
     
    Nothing you wrote in that paragraph is correct.

    Why you don't read a couple of books about that part of the world.
    True, all are biased. That's what research is all about.

    Judging from your attitude re Serbs this would be a good start:
    https://www.amazon.com/Fools-Crusade-Yugoslavia-Western-Delusions/dp/158367084X

    And then I'd suggest going through transcripts from Hague. Pick a case and go through all that, page by page. Skip the legal procedures and carefully read all the rest. Especially cross-examinations of witnesses.

    Just an idea.

    I have lived through that period moron.
    And my older brother was in Communist party. So I heard and new everything what was happening.
    And you dare to say to me that everything I did write there is false.
    I do not need to read FN anything.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I have lived through that period moron.
    And my older brother was in Communist party. So I heard and new everything what was happening.
     
    I see. An "inside" info. Apparently.
    That's always in short supply here; perhaps you could help.

    I was apparently wrong. I thought you were Russian or similar, the name just doesn't sound Serbian/Croat/Bosnan/Albanian/the rest over there.
    True, there were/are some Russians/Rusines/whatever there.

    So...what region you were in if I may ask? Vojvodina, Slavonia perhaps?

    You sure that Chetnik means "policeman"?
    I thought the word was derived from "ceta" (company sized military unit) during Serb-Bulgarian alliance against Turks. And later on the name represented Serbian nationalists, Serbian fighters under Mihailovic, and in the latest round paramilitary units from Serbian Democratic Party.

    As for "only Serbs as policeman" in Tito Yugoslavia, Stalin and such, how about Ivan Krajacic?
    I was quite sure, prior to your revelation, that he was a Croat.
    He was also a Minister of Interior in Croatia from 1946 to 1953...I thought. I must've been wrong then.

    Well...well....a man can learn new things every day.
    With ladies happy to help here.
    Thank you.

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  220. peterAUS says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I have lived through that period moron.
    And my older brother was in Communist party. So I heard and new everything what was happening.
    And you dare to say to me that everything I did write there is false.
    I do not need to read FN anything.

    I have lived through that period moron.
    And my older brother was in Communist party. So I heard and new everything what was happening.

    I see. An “inside” info. Apparently.
    That’s always in short supply here; perhaps you could help.

    I was apparently wrong. I thought you were Russian or similar, the name just doesn’t sound Serbian/Croat/Bosnan/Albanian/the rest over there.
    True, there were/are some Russians/Rusines/whatever there.

    So…what region you were in if I may ask? Vojvodina, Slavonia perhaps?

    You sure that Chetnik means “policeman”?
    I thought the word was derived from “ceta” (company sized military unit) during Serb-Bulgarian alliance against Turks. And later on the name represented Serbian nationalists, Serbian fighters under Mihailovic, and in the latest round paramilitary units from Serbian Democratic Party.

    As for “only Serbs as policeman” in Tito Yugoslavia, Stalin and such, how about Ivan Krajacic?
    I was quite sure, prior to your revelation, that he was a Croat.
    He was also a Minister of Interior in Croatia from 1946 to 1953…I thought. I must’ve been wrong then.

    Well…well….a man can learn new things every day.
    With ladies happy to help here.
    Thank you.

    Read More
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  221. Well I do not know what to say. Obviously you are married to your keyboard.
    I have to admit that I get easily furious, but than I can get easily friendly also.
    Ceta, or rather Chata in this case is is derived from cent 100 Latin centurion.
    I have no idea why in Yugoslavia and other Slavic countries did call policeman Chetnik.
    You have to ask some language expert.
    There is no such a rank in military as Chetnik. That would sound stupid to any Slav Language.
    Leader of Chata is called Poruchik or Nadporuchik and soldier is called vojak.
    You are testing my memory but I am sure I did not mention name Krajacic in any of my comment.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………..
    You may ask anything from me except what you were asking.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom57
    @Rozumova
    You are very funny. I really wonder just like Peter whether you have ever been to Serbia or Bosnia. "After creation of Yugoslavia Stalin and Tito insisted that on all territories the police force to be all Serbs, because Stalin did not trust anybody except Serbs." ?????????????????????????????????????
    Didn´t read anything that idiotic in a long, long time.
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  222. Tom57 says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Well I do not know what to say. Obviously you are married to your keyboard.
    I have to admit that I get easily furious, but than I can get easily friendly also.
    Ceta, or rather Chata in this case is is derived from cent 100 Latin centurion.
    I have no idea why in Yugoslavia and other Slavic countries did call policeman Chetnik.
    You have to ask some language expert.
    There is no such a rank in military as Chetnik. That would sound stupid to any Slav Language.
    Leader of Chata is called Poruchik or Nadporuchik and soldier is called vojak.
    You are testing my memory but I am sure I did not mention name Krajacic in any of my comment.
    ..................................................................................................
    You may ask anything from me except what you were asking.

    @Rozumova
    You are very funny. I really wonder just like Peter whether you have ever been to Serbia or Bosnia. “After creation of Yugoslavia Stalin and Tito insisted that on all territories the police force to be all Serbs, because Stalin did not trust anybody except Serbs.” ?????????????????????????????????????
    Didn´t read anything that idiotic in a long, long time.

    Read More
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  223. I am new on this site so I do not know people here. But I have noticed that comments of some people do not warrant answer. You are one of them.

    Read More
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  224. I have talked to some Serb friends. So here is the clarification. Chetniks were paramilitary Serb organization (long time in existence) who wanted the return of the Serb king.
    After Communist takeover The Chetnik organization was dissolved because King had no chance to return anyway. Some of them joined the national army and some of them joined the national police force.
    So I was right along all the way. (But as I said people still did call them as Chetniks who were in police force.)

    Read More
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  225. I love Unz Review, and think it performs a valuable role in giving unorthodox voices a platform. But this article by The Saker diminishes the credibility of the entire site.

    Mr Unz needed to ask The Saker – “When did you last visit Kosovo?” I think the answer would be either A) Never or B) 1988, give or take a year or two.

    The comments on Unz are usually informed and coherent. The comments beneath this article are generally jaw-droppingly ignorant, ill-informed and often incoherent.

    As I say, this article diminishes the entire Unz Review.

    I have travelled extensively in the Balkans, and have read accounts by Western travellers who came through the region last century, the 19th century and before. Most of Kosovo was Albanian, according to them.

    If you haven’t travelled through the Balkans, please don’t comment on the region.

    If you haven’t read Edith Durham’s books (all of them), please don’t comment on Albania or Kosovo. Or John Cam Hobhouse. Or Edward Lear. Or the memoirs of the British officers who served in the Albania and Kosovo during WWII. Go to the Albanian history website of the late German historian Robert Elsie for beautifully translated original documents. Here’s a taster from 1000-1018 AD –

    http://www.albanianhistory.net/1000_Origins-of-Nations/

    Here’s a more recent entry, from 1999 –

    http://albanianhistory.net/1999_Hague-Tribunal_Gjakova/index.html

    For an idea of what Kosovo is like today, please watch this short film from an episode of the TV travel show 3 Op Reis, broadcast a couple of Sundays ago. The presenter, Geraldine Kemper, is easy on the eye and most of it is in English not Dutch –

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/pristina-prizren

    Here’s the Albanian episode which was broadcast only last Sunday, again mostly in English –

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/noord-albanie

    Kosovo and Albania are wonderful to visit, with friendly hospitable people and incredible scenery. (The food in Albania is fantastic too. The best in the Balkans by a very long way – Slavs can’t cook.) The Albanian capital, Tirana, has I believe the lowest level of street crime in continental Europe. Kosovan cities like Gjakova and Prizen are wonderful places to visit.

    The only way Kosovo can become Serbian (I won’t say “again” as it’s highly doubtful whether the area that is now Kosovo was ever majority Slav) is exactly the same way as in the late 1990s, and the Balkan Wars before World War I (!) – by killing and terrorising the majority Albanian population till they flee.

    Mr Unz, please read your contributors’ articles more carefully, and consider the implications of what they are writing, before pressing “publish”. It is OK to say no every now and then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Oh....this is very good.

    Good work.

    It's very nice to see this change of attitude when coming from exclusively ONE point of view.

    I have to say this is the first time I've seen this approach.

    So far, always, it's been:
    Starts with more or less civil post.
    Escalates fast into heated debate about genes and history.
    Slips, then, into arguments about the last bout ('98, '99 and aftermath) with emphasize on atrocities.
    And finishes with posting pictures of dead people.............

    This is next level and does look and feel good.

    Now, just can't wait for a Serb (expelled from Kosovo after '99) to post a comment.

    Just keep it civil guys.
    No macabre pictures. Combatants O.K. but no kids.
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You have convinced me. Next time I will go to Europe I will go to see that Gypsy hive called Kosovo.
    You are not talking how prosperous that Gypsy hive is. OOOO they can cook, but Slavs cannot cook.
    That is indicating that you are an arsehole.
    Another thing. Mr Unz please read................
    That is clear indication of supporting censorship.
    And that means that you are a Zionist Globalist POS.

    BTW.
    Winds are changing already. Germans are fed up with Euro. They want Deutchmark back.
    They are fed up giving out continuously bakshish to all kind of shitholes like this Gypsy hive called Kosovo.
    Payback is coming soon
    , @Cyrano
    You seem very fond of Albanians. Do you have failing organs and they promised you a free transplant of organs stolen from the Serbs or what? They don’t have access to Serbs anymore man. Don’t trust those butchers, they’ll probably try to transplant to you some organs taken from dogs. Although, judging by your comments, dog organ transplants could be a perfect fit for you, you filthy animal.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  226. peterAUS says:
    @Obliged_to_Comment
    I love Unz Review, and think it performs a valuable role in giving unorthodox voices a platform. But this article by The Saker diminishes the credibility of the entire site.

    Mr Unz needed to ask The Saker - "When did you last visit Kosovo?" I think the answer would be either A) Never or B) 1988, give or take a year or two.

    The comments on Unz are usually informed and coherent. The comments beneath this article are generally jaw-droppingly ignorant, ill-informed and often incoherent.

    As I say, this article diminishes the entire Unz Review.

    I have travelled extensively in the Balkans, and have read accounts by Western travellers who came through the region last century, the 19th century and before. Most of Kosovo was Albanian, according to them.

    If you haven't travelled through the Balkans, please don't comment on the region.

    If you haven't read Edith Durham's books (all of them), please don't comment on Albania or Kosovo. Or John Cam Hobhouse. Or Edward Lear. Or the memoirs of the British officers who served in the Albania and Kosovo during WWII. Go to the Albanian history website of the late German historian Robert Elsie for beautifully translated original documents. Here's a taster from 1000-1018 AD -

    http://www.albanianhistory.net/1000_Origins-of-Nations/

    Here's a more recent entry, from 1999 -

    http://albanianhistory.net/1999_Hague-Tribunal_Gjakova/index.html

    For an idea of what Kosovo is like today, please watch this short film from an episode of the TV travel show 3 Op Reis, broadcast a couple of Sundays ago. The presenter, Geraldine Kemper, is easy on the eye and most of it is in English not Dutch -

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/pristina-prizren

    Here's the Albanian episode which was broadcast only last Sunday, again mostly in English -

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/noord-albanie

    Kosovo and Albania are wonderful to visit, with friendly hospitable people and incredible scenery. (The food in Albania is fantastic too. The best in the Balkans by a very long way - Slavs can't cook.) The Albanian capital, Tirana, has I believe the lowest level of street crime in continental Europe. Kosovan cities like Gjakova and Prizen are wonderful places to visit.

    The only way Kosovo can become Serbian (I won't say "again" as it's highly doubtful whether the area that is now Kosovo was ever majority Slav) is exactly the same way as in the late 1990s, and the Balkan Wars before World War I (!) - by killing and terrorising the majority Albanian population till they flee.

    Mr Unz, please read your contributors' articles more carefully, and consider the implications of what they are writing, before pressing "publish". It is OK to say no every now and then.

    Oh….this is very good.

    Good work.

    It’s very nice to see this change of attitude when coming from exclusively ONE point of view.

    I have to say this is the first time I’ve seen this approach.

    So far, always, it’s been:
    Starts with more or less civil post.
    Escalates fast into heated debate about genes and history.
    Slips, then, into arguments about the last bout (’98, ’99 and aftermath) with emphasize on atrocities.
    And finishes with posting pictures of dead people………….

    This is next level and does look and feel good.

    Now, just can’t wait for a Serb (expelled from Kosovo after ’99) to post a comment.

    Just keep it civil guys.
    No macabre pictures. Combatants O.K. but no kids.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Litmus test re ethnic conflict.

    War in Kosovo '99.

    Both sides commited atrocities and war crimes.

    So, top Serb military guy , Pavkovic, got 22 years. Chief of the General Staff. And some guys down the chain of command.
    Top Albanian military guy, Sylejman Selimi, got zero years. And guys below him too.

    What would be your, civil, take on this, please?

    Feels right?
    Or unbalanced?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  227. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS
    Oh....this is very good.

    Good work.

    It's very nice to see this change of attitude when coming from exclusively ONE point of view.

    I have to say this is the first time I've seen this approach.

    So far, always, it's been:
    Starts with more or less civil post.
    Escalates fast into heated debate about genes and history.
    Slips, then, into arguments about the last bout ('98, '99 and aftermath) with emphasize on atrocities.
    And finishes with posting pictures of dead people.............

    This is next level and does look and feel good.

    Now, just can't wait for a Serb (expelled from Kosovo after '99) to post a comment.

    Just keep it civil guys.
    No macabre pictures. Combatants O.K. but no kids.

    Litmus test re ethnic conflict.

    War in Kosovo ’99.

    Both sides commited atrocities and war crimes.

    So, top Serb military guy , Pavkovic, got 22 years. Chief of the General Staff. And some guys down the chain of command.
    Top Albanian military guy, Sylejman Selimi, got zero years. And guys below him too.

    What would be your, civil, take on this, please?

    Feels right?
    Or unbalanced?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  228. @Obliged_to_Comment
    I love Unz Review, and think it performs a valuable role in giving unorthodox voices a platform. But this article by The Saker diminishes the credibility of the entire site.

    Mr Unz needed to ask The Saker - "When did you last visit Kosovo?" I think the answer would be either A) Never or B) 1988, give or take a year or two.

    The comments on Unz are usually informed and coherent. The comments beneath this article are generally jaw-droppingly ignorant, ill-informed and often incoherent.

    As I say, this article diminishes the entire Unz Review.

    I have travelled extensively in the Balkans, and have read accounts by Western travellers who came through the region last century, the 19th century and before. Most of Kosovo was Albanian, according to them.

    If you haven't travelled through the Balkans, please don't comment on the region.

    If you haven't read Edith Durham's books (all of them), please don't comment on Albania or Kosovo. Or John Cam Hobhouse. Or Edward Lear. Or the memoirs of the British officers who served in the Albania and Kosovo during WWII. Go to the Albanian history website of the late German historian Robert Elsie for beautifully translated original documents. Here's a taster from 1000-1018 AD -

    http://www.albanianhistory.net/1000_Origins-of-Nations/

    Here's a more recent entry, from 1999 -

    http://albanianhistory.net/1999_Hague-Tribunal_Gjakova/index.html

    For an idea of what Kosovo is like today, please watch this short film from an episode of the TV travel show 3 Op Reis, broadcast a couple of Sundays ago. The presenter, Geraldine Kemper, is easy on the eye and most of it is in English not Dutch -

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/pristina-prizren

    Here's the Albanian episode which was broadcast only last Sunday, again mostly in English -

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/noord-albanie

    Kosovo and Albania are wonderful to visit, with friendly hospitable people and incredible scenery. (The food in Albania is fantastic too. The best in the Balkans by a very long way - Slavs can't cook.) The Albanian capital, Tirana, has I believe the lowest level of street crime in continental Europe. Kosovan cities like Gjakova and Prizen are wonderful places to visit.

    The only way Kosovo can become Serbian (I won't say "again" as it's highly doubtful whether the area that is now Kosovo was ever majority Slav) is exactly the same way as in the late 1990s, and the Balkan Wars before World War I (!) - by killing and terrorising the majority Albanian population till they flee.

    Mr Unz, please read your contributors' articles more carefully, and consider the implications of what they are writing, before pressing "publish". It is OK to say no every now and then.

    You have convinced me. Next time I will go to Europe I will go to see that Gypsy hive called Kosovo.
    You are not talking how prosperous that Gypsy hive is. OOOO they can cook, but Slavs cannot cook.
    That is indicating that you are an arsehole.
    Another thing. Mr Unz please read…………….
    That is clear indication of supporting censorship.
    And that means that you are a Zionist Globalist POS.

    BTW.
    Winds are changing already. Germans are fed up with Euro. They want Deutchmark back.
    They are fed up giving out continuously bakshish to all kind of shitholes like this Gypsy hive called Kosovo.
    Payback is coming soon

    Read More
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  229. @ obliged to pee all over the website.
    Here is another thing.
    Why your beloved gypsies did not go Croatia?
    Croatia is far better and far more prosperous , and with long beautiful seashore. Why? Why?
    Let me tell you why!
    I am eager to tell you why.
    Because Croatian did kill ever Jew every Gypsy, (regardless if they did call themselves Albanians.)
    And other undesirable elements in their country, under German occupation.
    Serbs were benevolent and kind, they let the Albanian Gypsies in.
    And Gypsies were truly thankful. They shoved their gratitude remarkably.
    They were killing them and were selling their organs to Israel.
    But we have to have sympathy to them.
    They had to make a living somehow.

    .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jimmy
    God bless you, Ilyana! You are the epitome of "speaking your mind". Please, keep writing! People need to hear your voice, and worldview. Your sentiments represent a large segment of society in former Yugoslavia. Your words bring a unique insight into what happened there, and why all in a sudden people wanted to go their own way.

    This is the Internet, and here you get freedom of speech. Please post on saker, too!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  230. Cyrano says:
    @Obliged_to_Comment
    I love Unz Review, and think it performs a valuable role in giving unorthodox voices a platform. But this article by The Saker diminishes the credibility of the entire site.

    Mr Unz needed to ask The Saker - "When did you last visit Kosovo?" I think the answer would be either A) Never or B) 1988, give or take a year or two.

    The comments on Unz are usually informed and coherent. The comments beneath this article are generally jaw-droppingly ignorant, ill-informed and often incoherent.

    As I say, this article diminishes the entire Unz Review.

    I have travelled extensively in the Balkans, and have read accounts by Western travellers who came through the region last century, the 19th century and before. Most of Kosovo was Albanian, according to them.

    If you haven't travelled through the Balkans, please don't comment on the region.

    If you haven't read Edith Durham's books (all of them), please don't comment on Albania or Kosovo. Or John Cam Hobhouse. Or Edward Lear. Or the memoirs of the British officers who served in the Albania and Kosovo during WWII. Go to the Albanian history website of the late German historian Robert Elsie for beautifully translated original documents. Here's a taster from 1000-1018 AD -

    http://www.albanianhistory.net/1000_Origins-of-Nations/

    Here's a more recent entry, from 1999 -

    http://albanianhistory.net/1999_Hague-Tribunal_Gjakova/index.html

    For an idea of what Kosovo is like today, please watch this short film from an episode of the TV travel show 3 Op Reis, broadcast a couple of Sundays ago. The presenter, Geraldine Kemper, is easy on the eye and most of it is in English not Dutch -

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/pristina-prizren

    Here's the Albanian episode which was broadcast only last Sunday, again mostly in English -

    https://3opreis.bnnvara.nl/bestemming/noord-albanie

    Kosovo and Albania are wonderful to visit, with friendly hospitable people and incredible scenery. (The food in Albania is fantastic too. The best in the Balkans by a very long way - Slavs can't cook.) The Albanian capital, Tirana, has I believe the lowest level of street crime in continental Europe. Kosovan cities like Gjakova and Prizen are wonderful places to visit.

    The only way Kosovo can become Serbian (I won't say "again" as it's highly doubtful whether the area that is now Kosovo was ever majority Slav) is exactly the same way as in the late 1990s, and the Balkan Wars before World War I (!) - by killing and terrorising the majority Albanian population till they flee.

    Mr Unz, please read your contributors' articles more carefully, and consider the implications of what they are writing, before pressing "publish". It is OK to say no every now and then.

    You seem very fond of Albanians. Do you have failing organs and they promised you a free transplant of organs stolen from the Serbs or what? They don’t have access to Serbs anymore man. Don’t trust those butchers, they’ll probably try to transplant to you some organs taken from dogs. Although, judging by your comments, dog organ transplants could be a perfect fit for you, you filthy animal.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  231. Jimmy says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    @ obliged to pee all over the website.
    Here is another thing.
    Why your beloved gypsies did not go Croatia?
    Croatia is far better and far more prosperous , and with long beautiful seashore. Why? Why?
    Let me tell you why!
    I am eager to tell you why.
    Because Croatian did kill ever Jew every Gypsy, (regardless if they did call themselves Albanians.)
    And other undesirable elements in their country, under German occupation.
    Serbs were benevolent and kind, they let the Albanian Gypsies in.
    And Gypsies were truly thankful. They shoved their gratitude remarkably.
    They were killing them and were selling their organs to Israel.
    But we have to have sympathy to them.
    They had to make a living somehow.

    .

    God bless you, Ilyana! You are the epitome of “speaking your mind”. Please, keep writing! People need to hear your voice, and worldview. Your sentiments represent a large segment of society in former Yugoslavia. Your words bring a unique insight into what happened there, and why all in a sudden people wanted to go their own way.

    This is the Internet, and here you get freedom of speech. Please post on saker, too!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  232. So?

    So than who did the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo?

    Maybe this will help!

    https://thesaker.is/serbia-stolen-kosovo-multisubs-banned-czech-documentary/

    So now your eyes are open?
    No?

    Than wash your dirty face!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
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