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Deconstructing Islamophobia
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Introduction: a short survey of the cuckoo’s nest

My initial idea was to begin with a definition of “Islamophobia” but after looking around for various definitions, I decided to use my own, very primitive definition. I will define Islamophobia as the belief that Islam (the religion) and/or Muslims (the adherents to this religion) represent some kind of more or less coherent whole which is a threat to the West. These are two distinct arguments rolled up into one: the first part claims that Islam (the religion) represents some kind of threat to the West while the second part claims that the people who embrace Islam (Muslims) also represent some kind of threat to the West. Furthermore, this argument makes two crucial assumptions:

  1. there is such thing out there as a (conceptually sufficient) unitary Islam
  2. there are such people with (conceptually sufficient) common characteristics due to their adherence to Islam

Next, let’s summarize the “evidence” typically presented in support of this thesis:

  1. The god of Islam is not the same god as the God of Christianity
  2. The Muslim world was created by the sword
  3. The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was an evil person
  4. Islam is incompatible with western democracy and represents a threat to what are referred to as “values” in the modern day West
  5. Muslims have treated Christians horribly in many different historical instances
  6. Muslims often turn to terrorism and commit atrocities
  7. Islam is socially regressive and seeks to impose medieval values on a modern world

There are more such as these, but these, I believe, are the main ones.

What is crucial here is to point out that this evidence relies both on theological arguments (#1 #4 #7), and historical arguments (#2 #3 #5 #6).

Finally, there is a most interesting phenomenon which, for the time being, we shall note, but only discuss later: the legacy corporate Ziomedia on one hand denounces Islamophobia as a form of “racism” but yet, at the same time, the very same circles which denounce Islamophobia are also the ones which oppose all manifestations of real traditional Islam. This strongly suggests that the study of this apparent paradox can, if carefully analyzed, yield some most interesting results, but more about that later.

Of course, all of the above is sort of a “bird’s eye” view of Islamophobia in the West. Once we go down to the average Joe Sixpack level, all of the above is fused into one “forceful” slogan as this one:

This kind of crude fear-mongering is targeted at the folks who don’t realize that the US is not “America” and who, therefore, probably don’t have the foggiest notion of what Sharia law is or how it is adjudicated by Islamic courts.

I have lived in the US for a total of 22 years and have observed something very interesting: there is a unique mix of ignorance and fear which, in the USA, is perceived as “patriotic”. A good example of this kind of “patriotism through ignorance” is in the famous song “Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning” by Alan Jackson which includes the following words: “I watch CNN but I’m not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran, but I know Jesus and I talk to God“. Truth be told, the same song also asked in reference to 9/11 “Did you burst out with pride for the red, white and blue?“. Why exactly the massacre of 9/11 should elicit patriotic pride is explained as follows “And the heroes who died just doin’ what they do?“. Thus when the “United American Committee” declares that Sharia law is a threat to “America” the folks raised in this culture of fear and patriotism immediately “get it”. David Rovics hilariously described this mindset in his song “Evening News” where he says: “Evil men are plotting, to blow up Washington, DC, ’cause they don’t like freedom and democracy, they’re fans of the Dark Ages, they are all around, they’re marching from the desert sands, and coming to your town“. I have had the fortune of visiting all the continents of our planet (except Oceania) and I can vouch that this blend of fear+patriotic fervor is something uniquely, well, not “American” but “USAnian”.

Having quickly surveyed the Islamophobic mental scenery, we can now turn to a logical analysis of the so-called arguments of the Islamophobes.

Deconstructing the phobia’s assumptions: a unitary Islam

Let’s take the arguments one by one beginning with the argument of a unitary Islam.

Most of us are at least vaguely aware that there are different Islamic movements/schools/traditions in different countries. We have heard of Shias and Sunni, some have also heard about Alawites or Sufism. Some will even go so far as remembering that Muslim countries can be at war with each other, and that some Muslims (the Takfiris) only dream about killing as many other Muslims (who, obviously, don’t share the exact same beliefs) and that, in fact, movements like al-Qaeda, ISIS, etc have murdered other Muslims in huge numbers. So the empirical evidence strongly suggest that this notion of a Muslim or Islamic unity is factually simply wrong.

Furthermore, we need to ask the obvious question: what is Islam?

Now, contrary to the hallucinations of some especially dull individuals, I am not a Muslim. So what follows is my own, possibly mistaken, understanding of what “core Islam” is. It is the acceptance of the following formula “There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God” or “lā ʾilāha ʾillā llāh muḥammadun rasūlu llā“. Note that “Allah” is not a name, it is the word “God” and “rasul” can be translated as “prophet”. There are also the so-called Five Pillars of Islam:

  • The Shahada or profession of faith “There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God
  • The Salat or a specific set of daily prayers
  • The Zakat or alms giving
  • The Sawm or fasting
  • The Hadjj or pilgrimage to Mecca

That’s it! A person who fully embraces these five pillars is considered a Muslim. Or at least, so it would appear. The reality is, of course, much more complex. For the time being, I will just note that in this “core Islam” there is absolutely nothing, nothing at all, which could serve as evidence for any of the Islamophobic theories. Yes, yes, I know, I can already hear the Islamophobes’ objections: you are ignoring all the bad stuff in the Quran, you are ignoring all the bad stuff about spreading Islam by the sword, you are ignoring all the bad things Muhammad did in his life, you are ignoring the many local traditions and all the normative examples of the tradition (Sunnah and it’s Hadiths). Yeah, except you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say:

  1. Islam is inherently evil/dangerous AND
  2. use local/idiosyncratic beliefs and actions to prove your point!

If Islam by itself is dangerous, then it has to be dangerous everywhere it shows up, irrespective of the region, people, time in history or anything else.

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If we say that sometimes Islam is dangerous and sometimes it is not, then what we need to look into is not the core elements of the Islamic faith, but instead we need to identify those circumstances in which Islam was not a threat to anybody and those circumstances when Islam was a threat to others.

Furthermore, if your argument is really based on the thesis that Islam is evil always and everywhere, then to prove it wrong all I need to do is find one, just ONE, example where Muslims and non-Muslims have lived in peace together for some period of time.

While I was working on my Master’s Degree in Strategic Studies I had the fortune of having the possibility to take a couple of courses outside my field of specialization and I decided to take the most “exotic” course I could find in SAIS‘ curriculum and I chose a course on Sharia law. This was an excellent decision which I never regretted. Not only was the course fascinating, I had the chance of writing a term paper on the topic “The comparative status of Orthodox Christians in history under Muslim and Latin rule“. My first, and extremely predictable, finding was that treatment of Orthodox Christians by Muslim rulers ranged from absolutely horrible and even genocidal to very peaceful and kind. Considering the long time period considered (14 centuries) and the immense geographical realm covered (our entire planet from Morocco to Indonesia and from Russia to South Africa), this is hardly surprising. The core beliefs of Islam might be simple, but humans are immensely complicated beings who always end up either adding a local tradition or, at least, defending one specific interpretation of Islam. My second finding was much more shocking: on average the status of Orthodox Christians under the Papacy was much worse than under Muslim rule. Again, I am not comparing the status of Orthodox Serbs under Ottoman rule with the status of Orthodox Christians in modern Italy. These are extreme examples. But I do claim that there is sort of a conceptual linear regression which strongly suggests to us that there is a predictive (linear) model which can be used to make predictions and that the most obvious lesson of history is that the absolute worst thing which can happen to Orthodox Christians is to fall under their so-called “Christian brothers” of the West. A few exceptions here and there do not significantly affect this model. I encourage everybody to take the time to really study the different types of Muslim rulers in history, if only to appreciate how much diversity you will find.

Deconstructing the phobia’s assumptions: the “Muslim god” vs the “Christian God”

This is just about the silliest anti-Muslim argument I have ever heard and it come from folks inhabiting the far left side of a Bell Curve. It goes something like this:

We, Christians, have our true God as God, whereas the Muslims have Allah, which is not the God of the Christians. Thus, we worship different gods.

Of course, the existence of various gods or one, single, God does not depend on who believes in Him or who worships Him. If we can agree on the notion that God is He Who created all of Creation, and if we agree that both Christians (all denominations) and Muslims (all schools) believe that they are worshiping that God then, since there is only one real/existing God, we do worship the same God.

I wonder what those who say that “Muslims worship another god” think when they read the following words of Saint Paul to the Athenian pagans: “For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you” (Acts 17:23). What Saint Paul told them is that they ignorantly worship a god whom, in spite of that ignorant worship, Saint Paul declared to them. I submit that “ignorant worship” is not an insult, but a diagnosis of heterodoxy, and that an “ignorant worship” can nonetheless be sincere.

The issue is not WHOM we worship, but HOW we worship (in terms of both praxis and doxa).

And yes, here the differences between Christians and Muslims are huge indeed.

In my 2013 article “Russia and Islam, part eight: working together, a basic “how-to”” I discussed the immense importance of these differences and how we ought to deal with them. I wrote:

The highest most sacred dogmatic formulation of Christianity is the so-called “Credo” or “Symbol of Faith” (full text here; more info here). Literally every letter down to the smallest ‘i of this text is, from the Christian point of view, the most sacred and perfect dogmatic formulation, backed by the full authority of the two Ecumenical Councils which proclaimed it and all the subsequent Councils which upheld it. In simple terms – the Symbol of Faith is absolutely non-negotiable, non-re-definable, non-re-interpretable, you cannot take anything away from it, and you cannot add anything to it. You can either accept it as is, in toto, or reject it.

The fact is that Muslims would have many problems with this text, but one part in particular is absolutely unacceptable to any Muslim:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made

This part clearly and unambiguously affirms that Jesus-Christ was not only the Son of God but actually God Himself. This is expressed by the English formulation “of one essence with the Father” (ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί in Greek with the key term homousios meaning “consubstantial”). This is THE core belief of Christianity: that Jesus was the the anthropos, the God-Man or God incarnate. This belief is categorically unacceptable to Islam which says that Christ was a prophet and by essence a ‘normal’ human being.

For Islam, the very definition of what it is to be a Muslim is found in the so-called “Shahada” or testimony/witness. This is the famous statement by which a Muslim attests and proclaims that “There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God”. One can often also hear this phrased as “There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is His prophet”.

Now without even going into the issue of whether Christians can agree or not that “Allah” is the appropriate name for God (some do, some don’t – this is really irrelevant here), it’s the second part which is crucial here: Christianity does not recognize Muhammad as a prophet at all. In fact, technically speaking, Christianity would most likely classify Muhammad as a heretic (if only because of his rejection of the “Symbol of Faith”). Saint John of Damascus even called him a ‘false prophet’. Simply put: there is no way a Christian can accept the “Shahada” without giving up his Christianity just as there is no way for a Muslim to accept the “Symbol of Faith” without giving up his Islam.

So why bother?

Would it not make much more sense to accept that there are fundamental and irreconcilable differences between Christianity and Islam and simply give up all that useless quest for points of theological agreement? Who cares if we agree on the secondary if we categorically disagree on the primary? I am all in favor of Christians studying Islam and for Muslims studying Christianity (in fact, I urge them both to do so!), and I think that it is important that the faithful of these religions talk to each other and explain their points of view as long as this is not presented as some kind of quest for a common theological stance. Differences should be studied and explained, not obfuscated, minimized or overlooked.

Bottom line is this: it is PRECISELY because Islam and Christianity are completely incompatible theologically (and even mutually exclusive!) that there is no natural enmity between these two religions unless, of course, some Christian or Muslim decides that he has to use force to promote this religion. And let’s be honest, taken as a whole Christianity’s record on forced conversions and assorted atrocities is at least as bad as Islam’s, or even worse. Of course, if we remove the Papacy from the overall Christian record, things looks better. If then we also remove the kind of imperialism Reformed countries engaged in, it looks even better. But even Orthodox rulers have, on occasion, resorted to forceful conversions and mass murder of others.

And here, just as in Islam, we notice that Christians also did not always spread their faith by love and compassion, especially once Christian rulers came to power in powerful empires or nations.

Deconstructing the phobia’s assumptions: Islam was spread by the sword

In reality the “Islam spread by the sword” is a total canard, at least when we hear it from folks who defend “democracy” but who stubbornly refuse to concede that 1) most democracies came to power by means of violent revolutions and that 2) just a look at a newspaper today (at least a non-western newspaper) will tell you that democracy is STILL spread by the sword. As for the US as country, it was built on by far the biggest bloodbath in history. If anything, Sharia law and Islam could teach a great deal to the country which:

  1. spends more on aggression than the rest of the world combined
  2. has the highest percentage of people incarcerated (and most of these for non-violent crimes)
  3. whose entire economy is based on the military-industrial complex
  4. and who is engaged in more simultaneous wars of choice than any other country in history

So “Sharia Law Threatens America” is a lie. And this is the truth:

Was Islam really spread by the sword?

Maybe. But anybody making that claim better make darn sure that his/her religion, country or ideology has a much better record. If not, then this is pure hypocrisy!

Finally, I will also note that Christ said “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence” (John 18:36). In contrast, the Prophet of Islam established the first Islamic state in Medina. So when we compare Muhammad’s actions to Christ, a better comparison should be with the various Christian rulers (including Byzantine ones) and we will soon find out that the Christian Roman Empire also used the sword on many occasions.

Next:

Deconstructing the phobia’s assumptions: the Prophet of Islam was a bad man

You must have all sorts of stories about how the Prophet Muhammad did things we would disapprove of. I won’t list them here simply because the list of grievances is a little different in each case. I actually researched some of these accusations (about marrying young girls, or sentencing people to death for example) and in each case, there is a very solid Muslim defense of these incidents which is almost always ignored and which provides a crucial context to, at least, the better understanding of the incident discussed.

Since I am not a historian or a biographer of the Prophet Muhammad I don’t have any personal opinion on these accusations other than stating the obvious: I am not a Muslim and I don’t have to decide whether Muhammad was a sinful man or a infallible person (that is a purely theological argument). I will simply say that this ad hominem is only relevant to the degree that some Muslims would consider each action of their prophet as normative and not historical. Furthermore, even if they would consider each action of their prophet as normative, we need to recall here that we are dealing with a prophet, not a God-Man, and that therefore the comparison ought not to be made with Christ, whom Christians believe to be 100% sinless, but with a Christian prophet, say Moses, whom no real Christian will ever declare sinless or infallible. As for the Quran, let’s not compare it to just the New Testament but to all the books of the Bible taken together, including those who were eventually re-interpreted by the new religion of (some) Jews after the fall of Jerusalem: rabbinical/Phariseic Talmudism which found plenty of passages in its (deliberately falsified) “Masoretic” text of the Old Testament “Tanakh” (please see here if you don’t know what falsification I am referring to).

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Finally, NO religious text worth anything is self-explanatory or “explains itself” by means of comparing passages. This is also why all major religions have a large corpus of texts which explain, interpret, expand upon and otherwise give the (deceptively simple looking) text its real, profound, meaning. Furthermore, most major religions also have a rich oral tradition which also sheds light on written religious documents. Whatever may be the case, simply declaring that “Islam is a threat” because we don’t approve of the actions of the founder of Islam is simply silly. The next accusation is much more material:

Deconstructing the phobia’s assumptions:Islam is incompatible with democracy

That is by far the most interesting argument and one which many Muslims would agree with! Of course, it all depends on what you mean by “democracy”. Let me immediately concede that if by “democracy” you mean this:

Then, indeed, Islam is incompatible with modern western democracy. But so is Christianity!

So the so-called “West” has to decide what its core values are. If Conchita Wurst is an embodiment of “democracy” then Islam and Christianity are both equally incompatible with it. Orthodox Christianity, for sure, has not caved in to the homo-lobby in the same way most western Christian denominations have.

But if by “democracy” we don’t mean “gay pride” parades but rather true pluralism, true people-power, and the real sovereignty of the people, then what I call “core Islam” is not threat to democracy at all. None. However, there is also no doubt about two truisms:

  1. Some Muslim states are profoundly reactionary and freedom crushing
  2. Traditional Islam is incompatible with many modern “western values”

Still, it is also very easy to counter these truism with the following replies

  1. Some Muslim states are pluralistic, progressive and defend the oppressed (Muslim or not)
  2. Traditional Christianity is incompatible with modern “western values”

Again, Iran is, in my opinion, the perfect illustration of a pluralistic (truly diverse!), progressive and freedom defending Muslim state. I simply don’t have the time and place to go into a detailed discussion of the polity of Iran (I might have to do that in a future article), and for the time being I will point you to the hyper-pro-Zionist Wikipedia article (which nobody will suspect of being pro-Muslim or pro-Iranian) about the “Politics of Iran” which will show you two things: Iran is an “Islamic Republic” meaning that it is a republic, yes, but one which has Islam as its supreme law. There is absolutely nothing inherently less democratic about a Islamic republic which has a religion as its supreme law than a atheistic/secular republic which has a constitution as its supreme law. In fact, some countries don’t even have a constitution (the UK and Israel come to mind). As for the Iranian polity, it has a very interesting system of checks and balances which a lot of countries would do well to emulate (Russia for starters).

As for modern “western values”, they are completely incompatible with Christianity (the real, original, unadulterated thing) even if they are very compatible with modern western (pseudo-) Christian denominations.

So, now the question becomes: is there something profoundly incompatible between the real, traditional, Islam and the real, traditional, Christianity? I am not talking about purely theological differences here, but social and political consequences which flow from theological differences. Two immediately come to my mind (but there are more, of course):

  • The death penalty, especially for apostasy
  • Specific customs (dress code, ban on alcohol, separation of genders in various settings, etc.)

The first one, this is really a non-issue because while traditional, Patristic, Christianity has a general, shall we say, “inclination” against the death penalty, this has not always been the case in all Orthodox countries. So while we can say that by and large Orthodox Christians are typically not supporters of the death penalty, this is not a theological imperative or any kind of dogma. In fact, modern Russia has implemented a moratorium on the death penalty (to join the Council of Europe – hardly a moral or ethical reason) but most of the Russian population favor its re-introduction. Note that Muslims in Russia are apparently living their lives in freedom and overall happiness and when they voice grievances (often legitimate ones), they don’t have “reintroduce the death penalty” as a top priority demand.

The simple truth is that each country has to decide for itself whether it was the use the death penalty or not. Once a majority of voters have made that decision, members of each religious will have to accept that decision as a fact of law which can be criticized, but not one which can be overturned by any minority.

As for religious tribunals, they can be easily converted by the local legislature into a “mediation firm” which can settle conflicts, but only if both sides agree to recognize it’s authority. So if two Muslims want their dispute to be settled by an Islamic Court, the latter can simply act as a mediator as long as its decision does not violate any local or national laws. Hardly something non-Muslims (who could always refuse to recognize the Islamic Court) need to consider a “threat” to their rights or lifestyles.

An “Islamic Matrioshka”?!

As for the social customs, here it is really a no-brainer: apply Islamic rules to those who chose to be Muslims and let the other people live their lives as they chose to. You know, “live and let live”. Besides, in terms of dress code and gender differentiation, traditional Islam and traditional Christianity are very close.

Check out this typical Russian doll, and look at what she is wearing: this was the traditional Russian dress for women for centuries and this is still what Orthodox women (at least those who still follow ancient Christian customs) wear in Church.

Furthermore, if you go into a Latin parish in southern Europe or Latin America, you will often find women covering their heads, not only in church, but also during the day. The simple truth is that these clothes are not only modest and beautiful, they are also very comfortable and practical.

The thing which Islamophobes always miss is that they take examples of laws and rules passed by some Muslim states and assume that this is how all Muslim states will always act. But this is simply false. Let’s take the example of Hezbollah (that name means “party of God”, by the way) in Lebanon which has clearly stated on many occasions that it has no intention of transforming Lebanon into a Shia-only state. Not only did Hezbollah say that many times, but they acted on it and they always have had a policy of collaboration with truly patriotic Christians (of any denomination). Even in today’s resistance (moqawama) there are Christians who are not members of Hezbollah as a party (and why would they when this is clearly and officially a Muslim party and not a Christian one?!), but they are part of the military resistance.

[Sidebar: by the way, the first female suicide bomber in Lebanon was not a Muslim. She was a 18 year old from an Orthodox family who joined Syrian Social Nationalist Party and blew herself up in her car on an Israeli checkpoint (inside Lebanon, thus a legitimate target under international law!), killing two Israeli invaders and injuring another twelve. Her name was Sana’a Mehaidli]

A Hezbollah fighter respectfully picks up an image of the Mother of God from the ruins of a church destroyed by US-backed Takfiris
A Hezbollah fighter respectfully picks up an image of the Mother of God from the ruins of a church destroyed by US-backed Takfiris

Recent events in Syria were also very telling: when the lotus seeds AngloZionist Empire unleashed its aggression against Syria and the “good terrorists” of al-Qaeda/al-Nusra/ISIS/etc. embarked in a wholesale program of massacres and atrocities, everybody ran for their lives, including all the non-Takfiri Muslims. Then, when the plans of the Axis of Kindness (USA, KSA, Israel) were foiled by the combined actions of Russia, Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, something interesting happened: the Latin Christians left, whereas the Orthodox Christians stayed (source). Keep in mind that Syria is not an Islamic state, yet the prospects of a Muslim majority was frightening enough for the Latins to flee even though the Orthodox felt comfortable staying. What do these Orthodox Christians know?

Could it be that elite traditionalist Shia soldiers represent no threat to Orthodox Christians?

Deconstructing the phobia’s assumptions: Islam generates terrorism

In fact, there is some truth to that too. But I would re-phrase it as: the AngloZionists in their hatred for anything Russian, including Soviet Russian, identified a rather small and previously obscure branch of Islam in Saudi Arabia which they decided to unleash against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan. From the first day, these Takfiris were federated by the US and financed by the House of Saud. The latter, in its fear of being overthrown by the Takfiris, decided to appease them by internationally supporting their terrorism (that is all Takfiris have to offer, their leaders are not respected scholars, to put it mildly). Since that time, the Takfiris have been the “boots on the ground” used by the West against all its enemies: Serbia, Russia first, but then also secular (Syria) or anti-Takfiri Muslim states (Iran).

So it is not “Islam” which generates terrorism: it is western (AngloZionist) imperialism.

The US and Israel are, by a wide margin, the biggest sponsors of terrorism (just as the West was always by far the biggest source of imperialism in history) and while they want to blame “Islam” for most terrorist attacks, the truth is that behind every such “Muslim” attack we find a western “deep state” agents acting, from the GIA in Algeria, to al-Qaeda in Iraq to al-Nusra in Syria to, most crucially, 9/11 in New York. These were all events created and executed by semi-literate Takfiri patsies who were run by agents of the western deep states.

As far as I know, all modern terrorist groups are, in reality, “operated by remote control” by state actors who alone can provide the training, know-how, finances, logistical support, etc needed by the terrorists.

And here is an interesting fact: the two countries which have done the most to crush Takfiri terrorism are Russia and Iran. But the collective West is still categorically refusing to work with these countries to crush the terrorism these western states claim to be fighting.

So, do you really believe that the West is fighting terrorism?

If yes, I got a few bridges to sell all over the planet.

Conclusion: cui bono? the so-called “liberals”

There are many more demonstratively false assumptions which are made by the AngloZionist propaganda machine. I have only listed a few. Now we can look to the apparent paradox in which we see the western “liberals” both denouncing Islamophobia and, at the same time, repeating all the worst clichés about Islam. In this category, Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton are the most egregious examples of this hypocrisy because while pretending to be friends of Muslims, they got more Muslims killed than anybody else. For western liberals, Islam is a perfect pretext to, on one hand, cater to minorities (ethnic or religious) while pretending to be extremely tolerant of others. Western liberals use Islam in the West, as a way to force the locals to give up their traditions and values. You could say that western liberals “love” Islam just like they “love” LGBTQIAPK+ “pride” parades: simply and only as a tool to crush the (still resisting) majority of the people in the West who have not been terminally brainwashed by the AngloZionist legacy corporate propaganda machine.

Conclusion: cui bono? the so-called “conservatives”

Western conservatism is dead. It died killed by two main causes: the abject failure of National-Socialism (which was an Anglo plan to defeat the USSR) and by its total lack of steadfastness of the western conservatives who abandoned pretty much any and all principles they were supposed to stand for. Before the 1990s, the conservative movements of the West were close to fizzling out into nothingness, but then the Neocons (for their own, separate, reasons) began pushing the “Islamic threat” canard and most conservatives jumped on it in the hope of using it to regain some relevance. Some of these conservatives even jumped on the “Christian revival in Russia” theory (which is not quite a canard, but which is also nothing like what the Alt-Righters imagine it to be) to try to revive their own, long dead, version of “Christianity”. These are desperate attempts to find a source of power and relevance outside a conservative movement which is basically dead. Sadly, what took the place of the real conservative movement in the West is the abomination known as “National Zionism” (which I discussed here) and whose ideological cornerstone is a rabid, hysterical, Islamophobia.

Conclusion: cui bono? the US deep state

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That one is easy and obvious: the US deep state needs the “Islamic threat” canard for two reasons: to unleash against its enemies and to terrify the people of the US so that they accept the wholesale destruction of previously sacred civil rights. This is so obvious that there is nothing to add here. I will only add that I am convinced that the US deep state is also supporting both the Alt-Right phenomenon and the various “stings” against so-called “domestic terrorists” (only only Muslims, by the way). What the Neocons and their deep-state need above all is chaos and crises which they used to shape the US political landscape.

Finally, the real conclusion: rate the source! always rate the source…

Whom did we identify as the prime sources of Islamophobia? The liberals who want to seize power on behalf of a coalition of minorities, conservatives who have long ditched truly conservative values and deep state agents who want to terrify Americans and kill the enemies of the AngloZionist Empire.

I submit to you that these folks are most definitely not your friends. In fact, they are your real enemy and, unlike various terrorists abroad who are thousands of miles away from the USA, these real enemies are not only here, they are already in power and rule over you! And they are using Islam just like a matador uses a red cape: to distract you from the real threat: National Zionism. This is true in the US as it is true in the EU.

Chechens in Novorussia
Chechens in Novorussia

Most westerners are now conditioned to react with fear and horror when they hear “Allahu Akbar”. This is very predictable since most of what is shown in the western media is Takfiris screaming “Allahu Akbar” before cutting the throats of their victims (or rejoicing at the suffering/death of “infidels”).

Yet in the Donbass, the local Orthodox Christians knew that wherever that slogan (which simply means “God is greater” or “God is the greatest”) was heard the Ukronazis are on the run. And now we see Russia sending mostly Muslim units to Syria to protect not only Muslims, but everybody who needs protection.

Having a sizable Muslim minority in Russia, far from being any kind of threat, as turned to be a huge advantage for Russia in her competition against the AngloZionist Empire.

There are, by the way, also Chechens fighting on the other side in this conflict: the very same Takfiris who were crushed and expelled from Chechnia by the joint efforts of the Chechen people and the Russian armed forces. So, again, we have Muslims on both sides, the Takfiris now happily united with the Nazis and the traditionalist Muslims of Kadyrov protecting the people of Novorussia.

That is one, amongst many more, nuances which the Islamophobic propaganda always carefully chooses to ignore.

Should you?

 
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  1. Lot says:

    Communist nut hates on Americans, loves jihadis.

    I am not surprised.

    Article is nothing but attacking strawmen.

    For example, Muslim migrants of all sorts degrade the West. Recognizing this fact doesn’t mean those who oppose such migration believe in a “unitary Islam.”

    Duh, Muslims love killing each other!

    Russia: can only defeat, over many years, tiny disorganized forces (Chechenia rebels, Syrian Sunni rebels)

    Saker: can only defeat strawmen he makes up.

  2. Smith says:

    The Saker is free to take all the world’s muslims to this home.

    I would stay and anti-moslem, anti-jew and anti-christian and be proud of those labels. Abrahamic religions are globalist, subversive and dangerous.

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @Pater
    , @niteranger
    , @Moi
    , @anon
  3. Smith says:

    Shia Islam is disgusted by western degeneracy, yet Iran accepts this?

    False dilemma, false dilemma everywhere.

    Anyway, I hope Saker can open his house and houses all the muslims, jew and christians in the world. I oppose all of these abrahamic cults/cultists.

    • Troll: Biff
  4. “This kind of crude fear-mongering is targeted at the folks who don’t realize that the US is not “America””

    As usual, “Saker” proves to be an ungrateful and ill mannered guest in America.
    I always figured that he mistakenly refers to his gracious hosts as “U.S. Americans” because of the objections of some Latin American peasants who resent that we in the USA (along with the rest of the world) call ourselves “Americans.” He’s obviously too thick to recognize that America is the name of our country, not just the name of two continents. Does he refer to people from Estados Unidos Mexicanos as U.S. Mexicans? Does he not realize that we are not the United States of the Americas?

    But then, he also refers to Dutch-Swiss as “Russians.” Maybe if he says Ukronazi and US American another thousand times (which he should accomplish in about three articles, given his past record) it will eventually catch on.

  5. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:

    I am looking at that article that is referenced here in the passage about the “falsified” as the author said text of the Old Testament. There is the usual anti-Judaic set of rather ignorant and illogical arguments.

    A “new old Testament” of sorts was created by a group of scholars called the Masoretes who produced a fraud, a re-worked collection of texts we nowadays call the Masoretic Text of the Bible purged from all the key references to Christ.

    — How do we know which of the versions is a fraud? I can for sure prove that the Masoretic Text is a more elaborate work because it contains hidden esoteric nuances that are not found in the translation. Astronomical knowledge and gematria.

    The ‘real‘ original text of the books of what we call today the Old Testament has not been preserved in Hebrew, but it exists in translations made from Hebrew into the Greek in the late 2nd century BC by 72 scholars, hence the translation is called the Septuaginta.

    — The oldest copies of the Septuagint are dated about 4th century CE and the oldest copies of the Aramaic translation, the Peshitta are from the 5th century. You can compare the two and see that there are differences, but no one considers the Peshitta a fraud. The Samaritans had their own version.

    Exactly in accordance with the words of Christ and the Apostles Paul and John the Evangelist, Devil-worship and black magic also soon were integrated into the “new old” corpus of traditions and this is the basis of what today is called the Kabbalah.

    — No this is not true. There is no figure, similar to the anti-God of the Christians in Judaism. Jews worship one God. And in fact Christians, to be specific, the Catholics do indeed worship Lucifer. See Exsultet: the proclamation, in which Christ is called Lucifer.

    From an non-Judaic perspective I recommend the books “Judaism’s strange god” and, especially, the huge “Judaism Discovered” by Michael Hoffman. You can get them from an online bookstore or even in the form of a PDF download.

    — From there it comes. These books are full of lies. There are false references and distorted quotes, spiced up with hateful and misleading commentaries. I know that Michael Hoffman writes in Twitter he wants a debate but he refused to accept the challenge when he was called out.

    You will come to the inevitable conclusion that modern “Judaism” is not the religion of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but the religion of Maimonides, Karo and Luria. This religion has nothing in common with the religion of the Jewish people before Christ.

    — How much more true it would be if it was said that modern Christian religion is not the religion of Jesus and the Apostles but the teachings of Origen, Augustine and Tertullian. But we should not forget about the later contributors as well, such as Bernard Gui, Tomás de Torquemada and Martin Luther.

    • Replies: @druid55
  6. Anonymous[272] • Disclaimer says:

    Russians seem very pro-Muslim, a lot more so than they are pro-West. They seem to see Islam as similar to Orthodoxy in style and mentality. I get the impression that Russians would rather live side by side with Mosques than they would with Protestant or Catholic churches, or any other form of Western church.

    I think they see Islam as fundamentally compatible with Russian identity providing the Muslims are pro-Russian, in fact they perhaps even see Islam as an essential element of Russian “Easterness”. In contrast Protestantism and Catholicism are just seen as entirely foreign and Western to Russians and essentially not welcome.

  7. yurivku says:
    @Lot

    Russia: can only defeat, over many years, tiny disorganized forces (Chechenia rebels, Syrian Sunni rebels)

    Hi, you dumbheaded thinker. Did you hear about Napoleon, Hitler and many-many others?
    If you capable to – google those names and learn how they ended up.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @Lot
    , @Wally
  8. Ian Smith says:

    Given the disdain that the average Russian feels for ‘black asses’, should you really be finger wagging at the US?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  9. TG says:

    Islam is a religion of peace and all who say different must be killed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @RadicalCenter
  10. Muslims kill Muslims as Christians kill Christians. Muslims unite with Christians as Christians unite with Muslims. This is because of power (manifested as interest). It cuts across all apparently unifying principles: family, kin, nation, religion, ideology, politics – everything. We unite with the enemies of our principles, because that is what serves our interest. It is power, not any of the above concepts, that is the cause of war.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

    • Agree: druid55
  11. Anonymous[607] • Disclaimer says:
    @TG

    Truly a brilliant and comprehensive refutation of the article!
    BRAVO!

  12. This is indeed a very good article. I’ve always said that ‘Islam’ isn’t really the issue, but the third world cultures from which most Muslims hail from is the main issue. Muslims, like so many non-westerners, identify first with their tribe rather than religion.

    One example of this was the genocide committed by Pakistani Punjabis against the Bengalis which eventually led to the creation of Bangladesh. While Bangladesh is still a shithole, it is making much more economic progress than Pakistan because it is an ethno-state whereas Pakistan has a diverse population that doesn’t get along (sort of like India). Deadly skirmishes between the muhajirs (of Indian descent) and the Pathans (of Pashtun/Afghan descent) are quite common in the streets of Karachi. Would you say that Filipinos and Italians are culturally identical just because they share the Catholic faith? Any conservative who thinks that keeping Muslims out while importing hordes of Filipinos and Mexicans (just because they are Christians) is acceptable is a cuckservative.

  13. @Anonymous

    Russians seem very pro-Muslim, a lot more so than they are pro-West. They seem to see Islam as similar to Orthodoxy in style and mentality.

    Completely false, failing to distinguish between tolerating something and being “pro”–two totally different things.

    I get the impression that Russians would rather live side by side with Mosques than they would with Protestant or Catholic churches, or any other form of Western church.

    For starters, the bulk of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who did undergo a very serious Russification and education, literally and as a euphemism for Europeisation. They are a part of Russian history and culture and are far more resistant to Islamization (especially being of Hanafi madhab) , than people in Caucasus. But even there things are not as simple. To sum it up, your impression is very wrong.

  14. The US and Israel are, by a wide margin, the biggest sponsors of terrorism (just as the West was always by far the biggest source of imperialism in history) and while they want to blame “Islam” for most terrorist attacks, the truth is that behind every such “Muslim” attack we find a western “deep state” agents acting, from the GIA in Algeria, to al-Qaeda in Iraq to al-Nusra in Syria to, most crucially, 9/11 in New York. These were all events created and executed by semi-literate Takfiri patsies who were run by agents of the western deep states.

    The Zio-Nazis in Israel, USA, UK etc. will fail eventually. The conflict with Iran will be the beginning and the end.

    • Agree: druid55
  15. peterAUS says:

    Seen the title. Skipped the article.

    Not quite sure who’s paying: Kremlin or Tehran.
    Probably both.

    Skimmed through the comments. Not bad overall, so far. Even the fanboys appear reluctant to toe the line and support the agenda.

    The best

    Islam is a religion of peace and all who say different must be killed.

    Looking forward to the author’s article with a title:
    “Deconstructing Serb Islamophobia”. Starting with Kosovo.
    Or Greek, Bulgarian, and Macedonian.

    Ah, well, a man has to pay his bills.
    Hell, taking into account what’s happening in Bosnia at the moment wouldn’t exclude some serious shekels coming from Riyadh.

    All good.

  16. @peterAUS

    Seen the title. Skipped the article.

    You’ve summed up the extent of your intellectual powers quite nicely.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  17. druid55 says:
    @Lot

    spoken as a true Zio who hates Russians and Muslims, and anybody else he/they cannot manipulate!!!

  18. The Sakers’s knowledge with regard to Islam and Muslims is far superior to mine so he gets the benefit of the doubt. But Islamophobia has nothing to do with either. Islamophobia is an invention of the woketards. It’s just another rhetorical club to wield against the Deplorables. There are Americans who see whats happening in Germany and Sweden and don’t want to be raped and/or stabbed by barbarians from the seventh century. Their fears may be exaggerated but they are by no means irrational. There is nothing the white left wouldn’t do to inflict pain on white American Christians.

  19. druid55 says:
    @anonymous

    Among other things Torquemada was a Jew supposed convert

    • Replies: @anonymous
  20. 22pp22 says:

    I spent years of my early life in a city with a huge Muslim minority. The Saker’s description of the religion is absolutely at variance with my lived experience of Islam.

    The spread of Islam was a major factor in my decision to emigrate. My fear of the religion was based on the evidence of my own eyes, not prejudice. Many of the things I suspected were going on, especially industrial-scale child-prostitution, were going on and were being covered up by White liberals.

    All right some Chechens fought for Russia, but a hell of a lot didn’t. I think Anatoly Karlin is a more plausible commentator by far.

    • Agree: TKK, Sbaker
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @anonymous
    , @TKK
    , @Pete34r
  21. peterAUS says:
    @22pp22

    ..The Saker’s description of the religion is absolutely at variance with my lived experience of Islam.
    …My fear of the religion was based on the evidence of my own eyes…

    See, that’s your problem right there. Experience.
    It doesn’t matter. Being informed and educated is, by people like Saker, of course.
    You just must stop remembering your experience and stop believing your own eyes, ears and common sense.

    Now, for Saker, I wouldn’t go too harsh on him. The man must be in some dire straits to write about “islamophobia”.
    Being honest or being able to pay his bills, in the country he hates, is a tough choice. Well, at least up that point Orwell described in that pub at the end of the book. After that it becomes easy, I guess, if money is good.
    I just wonder what was that moment for the author of this article.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Paw
  22. @yurivku

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the USSR would have been toast without the UK and US re-supplying it with arms. “Uncle” Joe was more than prepared to sacrifice millions of bodies to stop the “evil” Nazis (who never wanted war in the first place) from ridding the world of a psychotic Jewish cult, and thereby preventing the invention of the 6 ka-gillion fairy tale.
    I”ll give you Napoleon though, but that was the Tsar.

    • Replies: @chief
    , @Sergey Krieger
  23. anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:

    It is good to know the Jewish zionist liars through their comments. Here, more than 99% of the comments so far at this page are written by the criminal zionist TROLL. Their expertise is lying like their Jewish mafia pimp, Trump and his Jewish zionist family. All are MAFIA.

    Have you noticed that even the pro apartheid entity Jews like Adam Schiff has noticed that Trump is acting and fucking as MAFIA, Jewish mafia, but he deliberately drops ‘jewish’ and keep MAFIA alone.
    So George Soros, a zionist Jew who call Trump and his circle, only MAFIA.

    [Soros said. “Open societies are in crisis, and various forms of dictatorships and mafia states, exemplified by Putin’s Russia, are on the rise. In the United States, President Trump would like to establish a mafia state but he can’t, because the Constitution, other institutions, and a vibrant civil society won’t allow it.”]

    Both Trump and Putin are Jewish mafia pimps where should be destroyed. Recently, these two pimps have invirted a thug, Erdogan, to occupy and steal Syrian oil wells and lands, directed by the Jewish mafia pimp, PUTIN.

  24. The first mistake is to categorize Islam as a religion with different facets. It isn’t. It’s the whole package, and more to the point, it is more akin to Talmudic Judaism than Christianity. Both believe deceit/lying is acceptable to promote the objectives of their beliefs.

    Of course Islam wasn’t spread by the sword. There was no need for the Crusades to save Christians from slaughter. Spain wasn’t conquered, and those virgins were never actually given up every year. The Battle of Tours was with paint balls, and the Ottomans never marched on Vienna.

    Anyone interested in buying a bridge?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  25. peterAUS says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Of course Islam wasn’t spread by the sword. There was no need for the Crusades to save Christians from slaughter. Spain wasn’t conquered, and those virgins were never actually given up every year. The Battle of Tours was with paint balls, and the Ottomans never marched on Vienna.

    Correct.

    That’s before any of us were alive.

    Let’s try to keep to date. This never happened either:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugojno_ethnic_cleansing
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kravica_attack_(1993)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelani_massacre
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusina_killings
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grabovica_massacre
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kri%C5%BEan%C4%8Devo_Selo_killings
    Kukavica, Serdari, Miletic, Bikosi, Cukle, Doljani, Bobasi……….
    All in Europe, all by Muslims against Christians. Supported by all of the Muslim world; money, weapons, equipment, “volunteers”, “advisors”. From Malaysia to Turkey.

    If all those killed/mutilated above hadn’t been “islamophobes” all would’ve been nice and cozy.
    C……..r………a…………z…………y.

    Not Saker and his handlers. They are smart. Well, at least smarter than plenty of their target audience.

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Gall
  26. Lot says:
    @yurivku

    “ Napoleon, Hitler“

    200 and 75 years ago, with the home field advantage and giant numerical superiority. That’s just super.

    How’s Assad doing? 5+ years of Russian support, still doesn’t control all of Syria again. And half the former USSR has anti-Russian governments. Russia was a mess in 1985, and now it is poorer, weaker, and more isolated than even then.

    As for soft power and influence, the fact Russians spend their propaganda money on low-brow conspiracy nuts like those here shows they are completely bush league.

    • Replies: @Herald
    , @Sergey Krieger
  27. Lot says:
    @peterAUS

    “ The man must be in some dire straits to write about “islamophobia”.”

    These Unz-er nuts have decided to hop on the payroll of Iran, China and/or Turkey too. Russia keeps getting poorer because of low oil prices! (Oil is 45% of Russian exports. Much of the rest is other natural resources. As a corrupt dictatorship, they can’t do much else.)

    You can identify the Iranian stooges because they go on state-owned PressTV. Used to be the Iranian targeted leftists like Corbyn, but now they see the neonazi nuts are also cheap dates and have recruited them too.

    • Replies: @chief
  28. Tusk says:

    Why call it ‘Islamophobia’ as I am not afraid of muslims, I simply want nothing to do with them just as I want nothing to do with pedophiles, those who engage in sex with animals, and backwards low IQ populations (which unfortunately correlate with Islam), but nobody calls people who react at disgust to pedophiles ‘Pedophobic’. Yet.

  29. Paw says:
    @peterAUS

    This Saker uses his school “knowledge ” and life outside of his office is rather different. Experiences are plenty outside lectures in universities. He could be brainwashed , of course. Professors as usual hate independent thinking. Just data pushed into pupil. Cherry picking to keep his “facts” alive do not help. Distorted and all, by the article of the propagandist of ideology..

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  30. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @druid55

    No he wasn’t.

    “He came from a family of conversos (converts from Judaism); his uncle, Juan de Torquemada, was a celebrated theologian and cardinal, whose grandmother was a conversa. The 15th Century chronicler, Hernando del Pulgar, recorded that Tomás de Torquemada’s uncle, Juan de Torquemada, had an ancestor, who was married to a first-generation conversa.”

  31. peterAUS says:
    @Paw

    Two elements here, not related:
    First:

    …This Saker uses his school “knowledge ”..
    …He could be brainwashed…

    Don’t think so. He simply pushes, always, one primary agenda, everywhere: “Is It Good For Kremlin?”
    Not Russia and/or Russians. Kremlin, as it is.
    Make of that what you will.

    Second:

    ..lectures in universities…..Professors as usual hate independent thinking…

    Yes.Part of ongoing social engineering in Western societies. Primary target …etc…etc….

    I actually don’t believe that Saker, himself, believes in “islamophobia” in the West, Europe in particular. He’s simply doing what we all are doing to pay our bills. Shut your mouth and deliver on a deadline what the boss wants.
    People who honestly buy that shit……now, that is an interesting topic.
    But, as said before here: not many, so far, in this thread. Sort of encouraging. Even the fanboys have the line they are unwilling to cross for the “team”.
    Hehe….I just have a feeling it could change, especially if this article gets on the top of the main page.

    • Replies: @Paw
    , @chief
  32. Biff says:

    Islamophobia = Make my enemies your enemies = The motive behind 9/11

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  33. anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @WorkingClass

    How about the other side of the coin? Rape, genocide and plunder by the whitrash? 21st century evil surely greater than “7th century evil.”

    A pox on your specific kind. It appears to be taking its own time arriving at your doorstep, but it will, if not here, come Judgement time. Rot in Hell, Islamophobic scum.

    For every one else, may the Almighty One have mercy on all own souls.

  34. anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @22pp22

    industrial-scale child-prostitution

    Industrial scale?!

    The degenerate deceitful mofer that you are, you would take vicarious pleasure in that, won’t you?

    But firstly, worry about your own pedo scum godmen, you pagan/godless lowlife.

    • Replies: @22pp22
  35. Eliseo says:

    “Note that “Allah” is not a name, it is the word “God” and “rasul” can be translated as “prophet”.”

    The word Allah is a name; it is in fact the Supreme Name (Ism Azam). A name is a word after all.

    As for the word ‘rasul’ its meaning is Messenger; the word for Prophet is ‘naby. A Rasul is the vehicle of a Divine Revelation, whereas a Prophet is rather an eminent continuator of the Revelation. The Rasul is the higher rank; there have been relatively few of them in comparison to the multitude of prophets.
    ———————————
    “Was Islam really spread by the sword? Maybe. But anybody making that claim better make darn sure that his/her religion, country or ideology has a much better record. If not, then this is pure hypocrisy!”

    But the statement in question is not merely a subjectivism. It is either a historical truth or not. The “record” of the faith of a person who is of a different faith is irrelevant. A pertinent issue would be to what extent was the faith spread by the sword. This doubtless varied according to place and time. Hypocrisy might come in if there is an element of untruth in a person’s affirmations and opinions, or an element of bad faith or of impassioned bias or prejudice.
    ———————————-
    Comparing Christianity and Islam is a task beyond the Saker in my view. He is doubtless well-intentioned, but essentially he is way over his head, a dilettante.
    ———————————-
    “The Vision of Islam” by Sachiko Murata and Wm. Chittick, is a good intro. to Islam. But the very best and most profound treatment by far is Frithjof Schuon’s “Understanding Islam.” It is a demanding book, to be sure. Martin Lings’ book “Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources”is best biography of Muhammad. There is a wonderful video of Lings’ Pilgrimage to Mecca in 1941:
    Circling the House of God: Martin Lings Narrates His Hajj Journey (The Faith)

  36. anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:

    The Saker must be commended for his attempts at mitigating the root causes of Islamophobia. If he should stay on this reasonable (perhaps not ideal 😀 ) path until the very end, I have little doubt that the Almighty One will look on him with some mercy.

    In fact, I wish upon all such people outside the true monotheism of Islam, the Almighty One’s infinite mercy, and the very best life has to offer… but that said, my allegiance is only to the Almighty One and His blessed Seal of all monotheist Prophets(peace be upon them).

    It is somewhat ironic that an essay wishing to help allay Islamophobia, has and will, attract numerous rabid Islamophobes who lurk around here. That is to be expected. If they should increase in their hate, and consequently their torment in Hell soon enough, as unimaginably horrendous it will be already destined, that is good too. It will be their own freewill-ed choice only. A most terrible pox awaits their cancerous souls, so let me take a moment to savour some sweet schadenfreude…

    In the end, I don’t think The Saker alludes to one of the main causes of Islamophobia. The unassailability of Islam’s truest and purest form of Monotheism. The infidel “elites” figure, quite correctly, that it will be impossible to counter Islam just with their own deceitful pagan theologies. It would be anathema for them to see a mass exodus of their laity to true monotheism. All this vilification is primarily to stem such an eventuality.

    The following is what true and pure monotheism looks like, and it will indeed prevail, as the Almighty One promises mankind;

    Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent.” Holy Quran 112

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  37. 22pp22 says:

    I don’t know you. You don’t know me.

    But that comment says everything about you anyone needs to know.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_child_sex_abuse_ring

  38. Seraphim says:
    @Biff

    The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

    • Replies: @Biff
  39. PCL says:

    This is nothing more than an attempt to shield Islam from any scrutiny by pointing out something bad about the West, the Catholic church, Bush-Cheney-Obama-Hillary-McCaine, snake-kissing fundamentalists, almost anyone, for each legitimate criticism of Islam and Muslims in general. This sort of whatabout-ism will only work on those who think two wrongs make a right. As one who has been an agnostic all my adult life and values freedom FROM religion far more than freedom of religion, my Islamophobia is not driven by any illusions about the West or Christianity being perfect. The fact that Mohamed, like Hitler, was a mass rapist (he bragged about getting first pick among the women his soldiers captured in Quran 33:50) and ordered all of the Jews in the areas he controlled killed (Quran 5:33, Tabari 7:97) is enough to make me regard Islam, which almost everyone agrees is defined by Mohamed and his words in the Quran, as something bad. The fact that Mo also told his followers to beat their wives with sticks (Quran 38:44, 4:34) and called for the stoning of gay men (albeit he said the stoning was to be done by angels without saying if Muslims should or shouldn’t join in, Quran 15:73) and to impose a discriminatory tax on non-Muslims (and to fight, maybe kill, them for “spreading mischief” if they refuse, Quran 9:29), just makes it clearer that with all the problems we have in the USA, Islam is one we don’t need. Does that mean I want to invade the Islamic world and force them to convert to something else? Hell no. We’ve seen how supposed attempts to “fight for freedom” in the Islamic world have been driven by self-interested special interests whose agenda couldn’t be farther from freedom. The Islamophobia I support would have us disengaging from the Muslim world altogether, letting devout Muslims know that they, like devout Nazis, are unwelcome here, and letting “moderate Muslims” know that like Holocaust-deniers, they are wolves-in-sheep’s-clothing, no matter how sincere their delusions about their “prophet” may be. And, yes, there are other groups who should get similar scrutiny, and probably won’t (eg. In an ideal world, we wouldn’t let Jews or Christians in unless they renounced both involuntary male and female circumcision) . You might call that unfair and I don’t really care; as I said, we have plenty of problems and we don’t need one more.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  40. @peterAUS

    Looking forward to the author’s article with a title:
    “Deconstructing Serb Islamophobia”. Starting with Kosovo.

    My feeling is that Saker is trying to balance his Serbophilia (at least the one he seems to display) with his Muslim crowd. He may feel that he’s veered off too far into the former direction and is now working to equalize with pro-Muslim content.

    Hell, taking into account what’s happening in Bosnia at the moment wouldn’t exclude some serious shekels coming from Riyadh.

    Bosnia is looking edgy asf right now. Milorad Dodik just stated that there are already 10 countries in the world that are willing to recognize Republika Srpska as a country, even if it secedes from Bosnia in the present moment. It’s looking like Serbs could well be forced into another war in Bosnia, even before 2025 …

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  41. Smith says:
    @anonymous

    Every nationality on this Earth has raped and plundered.

    The difference is that 1.4 billion muslims can rally behind words such as “Islamophobia”, and millions jews can rally behind words as “anti-semitism”, or even 1.4 billion chinks with “Sinophobia”, but the actual minority of the world i.e. europeans (only 11.5% of the world) do not have such privileges and are being straight out genocided.

    So quit your victim complex and get some perspectives.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Corvinus
  42. Gall says:
    @Lot

    You must have a negative IQ.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  43. Gall says:
    @peterAUS

    Anyone who extravagantly uses Wikipedia as a source has got to be either a total moron or a Hasbara clown or more than likely probably both.

    • Agree: Carroll Price
  44. Salaamz,

    I have commented many times on this website and its truly great. I also follow the saker as he understands how truly cosmopolitant he wrold realy is. By the way, I am a South African of Indian Heritage from Surat and Gujurat- 6th generation South African and I am a Muslim, but also an Imam and a Hafez.

    The Saker ‘s article is spot on in explaining all things from a logical point of view and I agree with his points that he mentions about the words and the explanations of my belief syste. Sidebar, I am of the orthodox Sunni Hanafi tradition and not Shia. Well done to the Saker for getting that right, I truly appreciate it and so do most other Muslims who read your works.

    That been said, unfortunately, as I explain to my children, with peoples emotions and anger and hatred and in grained baises, you will never win an intelectual argument or even make your case. Mob mentality rules and this applies to all of Humanity.

    Oh, there is one other source of Islamophobia- it starts in the Byzantium-Arab wars from the 630 onwards – politics and religion mixed and was used as propoganda

    Go in peace and a great read. Keep up the great work.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Reisen
  45. I enjoyed your article.

    Have you read “The Sword of the Prophet” by Serge Trifkovic? If you have not, I suggest reading it. You might change your mind about Islam.

  46. For me this matter is much simpler. Christians have exceeded scriptural mandates and used the faith to justify war. That is accurate.

    However, unlike Islam there no record of Jesus telling his disciples anywhere in the New testamenr to use the word save possibly in the form of adjudicating issues of legality —

    But never in the Name of Christ. I can’t say, I Jesus ordered to slay infidels.

    Jesus never called for a Fatwah against his worst critics, even as they murdered him.

    • Replies: @Begemot
  47. Seraphim says:
    @The KP Factor

    That’s to admit that the cause of Islamophobia is Islam. Wherever Islam went, it generated Islamophobia.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  48. yurivku says:
    @Gall

    His skull is solid bone. But he’s certainly a tough guy because of it.

    • LOL: Gall
  49. Begemot says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Jesus never called for a Fatwah against his worst critics, even as they murdered him.

    Where would you expect Jesus’ critics and killers to end up: Heaven or Hell? Who needs a fatwa if you will be sending these people to eternal torment?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  50. @WorkingClass

    What utter nonsense. You attribute rapes and murder to Muslims and yet ignore the facts about your own barbarity and savagery against your own kind.
    How many people in the US are murdered on yearly basis? 20,000?

    And how many are raped? In tens of thousands. Did the Muslims do that? Nope but your own kind.
    And most of these murders are committed by either Whites or Blacks on Blacks and to some extent Latinos.

    The white American “Christians”, they are not, are their own worst enemies for they have allowed a bunch of Zionist to run their lives making them look like a bunch of dumb fools.
    Your problem is that you are fooled by likes of Drudge, a Zionist jew and the other whore , Oxycontin limbaugh and host of other well paid harlots who are making a killing pitting you against others for ethnic and religious reason while making millions and laughing at your “White Christian” booty.

    • Replies: @Gall
    , @Saxon
  51. @Lot

    And (((Lot))) chimes in with the party line for the right half of the kosher sandwich, right on cue…

    lol

    Perhaps you’d care to name a single major jewish organization (out of thousands) that supports your (clearly disingenuous) claim to oppose the Tribe-supported invasion of white countries by Arabs, North Africans, South Asians, etc.?
    While you’re at it — can you name one of these organizations that actually sees “degrading the West” as a bug, not a feature, of the ongoing non-white invasion?

    Take your time.

    Here’s a handy list of some of the more prominent ones.

    • Replies: @Gall
    , @Lot
  52. Bill says:
    @anonymous

    You could not have made WorkingClass’s point better if you were his sock puppet.

  53. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Bosnia is looking edgy asf right now.

    Yep.

    It’s looking like Serbs could well be forced into another war in Bosnia, even before 2025 …

    Now, that could be an interesting scenario.
    Very interesting in fact, for a multitude of reasons.

  54. @Ian Smith

    Yes, because Russians appear to have more common sense, self-preservation instinct, identity, pride, and courage in that regard. How has the importation and rampant breeding of Africans worked out for everyone else in the USA? Why should Russia want the same?

    • Replies: @Ian Smith
  55. @TG

    “We have the truth and are totally confident that you’ll see the light. Our logic, evidence, and arguments are so strong that we feel the need to mention: if you ever change your mind about being Muslim, the penalty for apostasy is death.”

  56. @peter mcloughlin

    It’s both. We can’t simply ignore the passages in the Koran that clearly command physical violence and threats to exterminate, forcibly convert, or subjugate everyone in the world. Inherent in Islam is violence against nonMuslims whenever Muslims have the power to inflict violence.

    • Replies: @E. Waldo Ralpherson
  57. Talha says:

    Reasonable explication and effort, though I think “Islamophobia” is a really stupid and overused term used to shut down serious debate (just my take). I would have enjoyed some citations and such, but that’s OK; this wasn’t a thesis or research paper or anything.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Gall
    , @DanFromCT
  58. Herald says:
    @Lot

    Lowbrow nut or not he’s certainly rattled your zionist cage. LOL.

    • Agree: Talha, Gall
    • Replies: @Talha
  59. Talha says:
    @Herald

    Some dude, somewhere, sometime: Writes something positive about Islam on the internet

    Zionists:

    Peace.

    • Agree: Gall
  60. Seraphim says:
    @Smith

    Muslims believe naively that playing the ‘Islamophobia’ victim card they could compete with the ‘antisemitism’ victim card in fleecing the Christians. They delude themselves.

  61. Gall says:
    @Talha

    You mean like “antisemitism” or “holocaust denial” or “self hating Jew”?

    • Replies: @Talha
  62. Pater says:
    @Smith

    My thoughts exactly, we’d have no problems with Moslems if they remained in their own lands, but off course they have to migrate to the West to benefit from the commons that their own civilization cannot create. This Saker fellow is just making excuses for the failed societies his Moslem friends come from.

    • Replies: @NegroPantera
  63. Gall says:
    @NegroPantera

    Let’s not forget about the Native American Genocide perpetrated by good Christians and Jews:

    https://espressostalinist.com/genocide/native-american-genocide/

  64. Gall says:
    @James Forrestal

    Proving the double standards and hypocrisy of the terrorist racist apartheid state of Israel who even make the KKK seem like organization devoted to racial tolerance and harmony is like shooting fish in a barrel.

  65. Ian Smith says:
    @RadicalCenter

    You completely missed my point. My point is that the Saker is lecturing us American bumpkins about how Islamophobic we are when Russians are at least as hostile to them.
    I don’t think it’s unjustified mind you. From the Tatar Yoke to Beslan, I’d say their phobia of Islam is reasonable.
    What I don’t like is how Russian chauvinists will sound like Noam Chomsky when talking about America and Ragnar Redbeardovich when talking about glorious Russian Empire.

    • Replies: @Talha
  66. Talha says:
    @Gall

    Pretty much. Once you throw these kinds of terms out like spraying a target with a tommy-gun; you eventually run out of bullets.

    And nobody takes you seriously anymore since the term has lost any meaning. Islamophobia is a very stupid term, it’s not a term we coined and it comes with loaded suppositions mostly used in stifling debate or discussion. I highly recommend Muslims (and others) do not use it:

    Peace.

  67. Zimriel says:

    I interpret this whole textwall as: when Islam comes to massacre and to rape nonOrthodox nations, we in the West can count on Russia *not* to help.
    “Orthodoxy”. The Monothelete heresy in 619 AD; the Monothelete heresy in 2019.

  68. Talha says:
    @Ian Smith

    Ragnar Redbeardovich

    LOOOL!!!

    Peace.

  69. chief says:
    @Curmudgeon

    I don’t want to start the debate about how significant the Lend Lease program was to the USSR, but your assertions here are wrong. The Lend Lease from the British started arriving in late 1942, and from the Americans by 1943. Since the 1941 the USSR was fully engaged in fighting the Nazi’s, which led to the fact that the Nazi’s were stopped outside of Moscow in 1941, and also led to the stalemate in the battle on the outskirts of Stalingrad in late 1942, while also having to move their factories further east beyond the Urals. You know, those factories that produced weapons, shells, tanks etc. By early 1943, it was apparent that the Nazi’s were not going to win the war in the USSR.

    The constant attempts to try to erase the effort of the USSR to defeat Nazi Germany, mostly comes from historically illiterate people, or simply people who can’t stand the fact that it was USSR (Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan etc) that was the main force behind the Nazis’ defeat, and not the western allies. Your insinuation that the USSR mostly used western weapons is not true and laughable. I think it was around 5% of western weapons, but the USSR did use a lot of American Studebacker trucks, that is true (although not a weapon). All the rest of the equipment was Soviet made: tanks, shells, bullets, rifles, machine guns, bombs, grenades, clothes etc etc.

    Most historians in the west have been using German records, which are biased, in their research because the Soviet records were sealed until 1991, so the Germans records could not be challenged for a long time, but now they can, and have. The Soviet records are of course also biased (as are western records), but it refutes various claims that are made in the German records. Sometimes by Germans that have participated in the war against Russia… so it is in their interest to try and paint the best picture about the Germans as possible. Like Franz Halder and his memoirs for example. It has become a meme at this point, because the Wheraboos also resort to the same debunked talking points “madman Hitler” or “Wehrmacht did not commit crimes” or “Germans were highly trained and professional” or “the Germans were simply outnumbered” etc etc.

    And no Napoleon was not defeated by the Tsar, just like the Nazi’s were not defeated by Stalin. Those russophobic invaders were defeated by the Russian people. I think it is your bubble that is burst. 🙂

    • Agree: Olivier1973
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    , @Avery
  70. Seraphim says:
    @Eliseo

    But “audiatur et altera pars”.
    I would recommend “Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the West”, by Raymond Ibrahim, “The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran”, by Robert Spencer, and the classic “Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World”, by Patricia Crone&Michael Cook. Also, “La Croix et le Croissant. Le christianisme face à l’islam”, by Antoine Moussali.

  71. Paw says:
    @peterAUS

    Right, of course.
    Saker I feel, here , is outside of his previous expertise. All that looks like and sounds to me , as some artifical Ideologism.. /He/Pays his bills , by paying, by his /or someone else/,propaganda…
    I write ,what I believe..

  72. chief says:
    @Lot

    Please try to hide your zionism better next time )) I like your tears though.

    Zionists are inherently russophobic, they are the same bolsheviks that have redrawn the borders of Russia 100 years ago, and were killing Orthodox priests, destroying Orthodox churches etc. Your anti-Russian conspiracy theories is something that anyone can find on the legacy corporate media in the west.

    I think it is good that the U.S. Americans are waking up, and beginning to understand that the US government is anti-US. It is infiltrated by various dual-citizens of Israel, and controlled by various Israeli spy organizations like the ZOA, AIPAC, SPLC, ADL. I think true US patriots should stop funding Israel (billions of US tax payer dollars that is used to bribe and blackmail US politicians), shut down the zionist spy organizations along with various anti-Russian “think tanks”, and filter all the dual citizens from the US government.

    Russians and Americans are not enemies, but the zionists are trying to trick the US people into being pro-Israel, pro-open borders, and anti-Russian.

  73. chief says:
    @peterAUS

    Don’t think so. He simply pushes, always, one primary agenda, everywhere: “Is It Good For Kremlin?”
    Not Russia and/or Russians. Kremlin, as it is.

    I don’t understand what you mean by “the Kremlin and Russia”.. the Kremlin is in Russia last time I checked. And how would you know what is good for Russia..? You are not Russian. I think the western ideology of so called democracy and tolerance a.k.a. degeneracy is not good for Russia. And the Russian people is rejected these western liberal so called values. That is why the west is demonizing Russia and calling Russia “muh homophobic dictatorship”.
    The fact is that there is Islamophobia in the west, just like there is russophobia. Russophobia exists since the middle ages.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  74. “Where would you expect Jesus’ critics and killers to end up: Heaven or Hell? Who needs a fatwa if you will be sending these people to eternal torment?”

    Hmmmmm . . ., I am not God and I don’t make that call. I only know that Christ never called me to exercise violence because someone said something nasty about his character.

    Again, people of faith have used faith incorrectly to support some rather inappropriate behaviors —-

    but that cannot be traced to Christ nor the Apostles.

  75. saker, you need to learn “how to think” from this great American…. always refreshing to read and re-read.
    http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/JatrasMuslim.php
    just because the west has too many faults, does not or cannot absolve islam. he who does not have the Son, does not have the Father.
    p.s., while you are living in the comfort of florida? right now thousands of Christians are being murdered by islam all over the world. the west doesn’t give a damn for the reasons you listed, but maybe Russia can do something about it???

  76. Lot says:
    @James Forrestal

    “ Perhaps you’d care to name a single major jewish organization (out of thousands) ”

    Please name a single major Catholic organization out of thousands that opposes mass migration to the USA.

    The reality is Jews are leaders at stopping the third world migration.

    • Replies: @Pegasus
    , @geokat62
  77. peterAUS says:
    @chief

    I don’t understand what you mean by “the Kremlin and Russia”.. the Kremlin is in Russia last time I checked.

    That’s O.K. Not understanding, I mean.

    And how would you know what is good for Russia..? You are not Russian.

    Dumb too.

    …The fact is that there is Islamophobia in the west..

    Nice use of capitals. Understandable.

    Let’s keep on the topic. What’s your take: is there any islamophobia in:
    Serb entity in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Macedonia and Greece? In that order. Any? You know: experience, proximity etc. Something as White racists living close to nig..I mean African Americans. Or Africans. Whatever.
    And, if it is, how would you address that islamophobia there? How would you…hehe..fix it? Make it gone/disappear? How would you make, say, Serbs in that “Republic Srpska” (quote/not quote) not …ahm….islamophobic?
    If you don’t understand the questions it’s O.K. Maybe some of the people who live in those countries/whatever could answer that.

  78. May God reward you abundantly, Saker.

    /And they are using Islam just like a matador uses a red cape: to distract you from the real threat: National Zionism./

    It is well worth clarifying that the people who benefit more than any other from conflict between the predominantly Christian west and the Muslim world are zionists. It’s a safe bet that the most vitriolic anti-Islam campaigns are spearheaded by zionists, for whom the perpetuation of said conflict is vital to the success of their objectives. Had America been wiser to their exploits at the turn of the century, much of the world would have been spared the needless bloodshed, rapine, and tyranny that have plagued it to this day.

    And yet, the repercussions of this unnecessary destruction have reverberated worldwide, compelling otherwise disinterested folk to investigate the matter and draw conclusions favorable to an eventual detente between Christendom and the Muslim world. We’re just beginning to witness the nascent coruscation of it, the discovery of that history which illuminates the immeasurable potential for comity between the world’s two largest nations of faith.

    The Covenants of the Prophet Muhammad with the Christians of the World — regarded as authentic by the majority of Islamic Studies scholars, Muslim and non-Muslim alike — provide invaluable source material by which Muslims and Christians may disabuse themselves of mutual distrust and animus upon which great misfortune has been predicated. While the extremism of both worlds has eclipsed consciousness of this legacy, the restoration of it remains imperative in the endeavor to preserve humankind from further disaster — disaster that may be averted with finality only by affirmation of knowledge that benefits us all.

    May we enjoy the peace of God forever more.

  79. chief says:

    Just because the people of Serbia and other Balkan countries (and also Russia) have suffered from various Muslim states (like the Ottoman Empire), that does not make the west pro-Serbian, pro-Russian or pro-Orthodox Christian. NATO is the one who bombed Serbia in 1999, and took the side of various radical takfiris against the Serbs. The west funded radical groups in Chechnya against Russia. The west supports and funds radicals takfiris against Orthodox Christians. And now that same west is bombing the Middle East, for the interests of Israel, and displacing a lot of people to move to Europe.

    The source of the problem is not the Muslims, but the ones who support radical groups, create anti-Muslim, anti-Russian policies. The problem is the zioinst west, Israel.

    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  80. peterAUS says:
    @chief

    ….the people of Serbia and other Balkan countries (and also Russia) have suffered from various Muslim states (like the Ottoman Empire)…

    with

    …The source of the problem is not the Muslims..

    C……r…….a……z……….y.
    Not dumb. Crazy.

  81. /The death penalty, especially for apostasy/

    This is a corruption of Islamic jurisprudence that became codified during the Abbasid era.

    Originally, violation of any one of the Ten Commandments, including apostasy, was punishable by death. This continued to be so for some time during the worldly life of the Prophet, which is why adultery itself constituted a capital crime until God provided a more humane sentence of 100 stripes [24: 2], raising the standard for prosecution to four witnesses, each of whom must catch the actors in delicto flagrante — a deliberately difficult, if not impossible, standard to meet.

    That said, there isn’t a single account of an apostate having been punished by death during the lifetime of the Prophet. Not one.

    So how did apostasy become a capital crime?

    A haddith attributed to the Prophet states, “One who changes the religion, kill him.” This imperative concerned false-flag renegades acting to supersede lawful Muslim authority. Upon the succession of Abu Bakr, the future of Islam itself became imperiled by such rebellion — as the ummah remained relatively small in number — and so, he and his companions fought the renegades and successfully quelled their uprising. The closest analogy in a non-Muslim ethos would be that of a civil war in which the lawful authority must act to put down a rebellion or suffer inevitable annihilation.

    During the Abbasid era, the definite article “the” was supplanted with the pronoun “his,” rendering simple apostasy a capital crime — a legal prescription quite familiar to the pre-Islamic ethos of the ancient Near East.

    /As for the social customs, here it is really a no-brainer: apply Islamic rules to those who chose to be Muslims and let the other people live their lives as they chose to. You know, “live and let live”./

    This is the precise application of No compulsion in religion [2: 256], and it accounts not merely for the preservation of ancient churches, synagogues, and temples throughout lands once ruled by Muslims, but the record of mutual accord that, for the majority of that rule, serves as a reminder that the protection of religious liberty remains a foundational principle of Islamic political administration.

  82. Pandour says: • Website

    I suggest the Saker bunch move to some Muslim country,preferably Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.There they can enjoy the blessings of honour killings,imprisonment or murder of Christians and others on suspicion of blasphemy,female genital mutilation,appalling gender inequality and sectarian violence,to mention just a few wonderful aspects that the Muslim world has to offer.You could become either Sunni or Shiaa and enjoy killing each other on a daily basis.

    • Replies: @Talha
  83. Rate the source, always rate the source. Islam – conceived by by a man with 40! wives and an inflated opinion of himself.

    • Replies: @Druid
  84. @Pater

    Stop bombing their countries and changing their governments by force and most importantly stop aiding and abetting the criminal Zionists with $Billions and free sophisticated weaponry and you will not see any Moslem or any other ethnic or religious group knocking on your doors.

    Neither Syria or Iraq and especially Libya were failed states but became so after the imperial intervention on behalf of the Zionists.

    One would have be open minded and use facts to deal with this immigration problem by 3rd world people into western Europe and find out what really has caused such exodus .

    But apparently you are too close minded and intellectually lazy and blame the whole problem on defenseless people whose lives have been shattered and destroyed by imperialism and Zionism.

    I am not a fan of the Saker but his point was to define Islam as it is and not as perceived or interpreted by clueless red necks such as Steve Bannon or the dope addict Rush Limbaugh.

  85. Pandour says: • Website

    Recently watched a documentary on refugees in Greece.In one scene a young Muslim woman from Syria is talking to her father by phone.He says-Do not forget,you are now in the land of the Infidels.Generally,that is how all Muslims think of non-Muslims.If the Turks enjoyed the military supremacy they held over a disunited Europe in the 16th century,they would lose no time in moving on Vienna and beyond.Western Europe is slowly committing suicide by allowing these illiterate and spiteful hordes entry.Some may recall the migrant rush of several years ago and the last departure of Muslim mobs from Budapest train station before Hungary closed its borders.These savages made a habit of defecating in the station area and men grabbed children so they could first gain entry on the train.A woman also headed to Germany on the same train recorded the conversations of these primitive barbarians-they did not realize she understood and spoke Arabic.Amongst the pearls overheard was how women in West were whores,that they should rob the non-Muslim passengers for the glory of Allah and that they should rape the woman in question.Cultural enrichment at its finest.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  86. Schrodinger’s Nato

    Whether alive or dead–who knows?
    Bigger boot they loyal lick,
    While Notre Dame in red embers glows,
    Glad to turn another trick.

  87. Talha says:
    @Pandour

    Why did you choose Saudi and Pakistan and not a place like Morocco where thousands of French retirees are living?

    “Searching for the perfect place to enjoy their retirement years, more and more French citizens find in Morocco their retirement haven.”
    https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2016/01/176765/morocco-retirement-haven-for-french-senior-citizens/amp/

    Why would anyone but Muslims want to live in Saudi, it holds the world’s most inhospitable, yet inhabited, terrain:
    “Mecca, Islam’s holiest city, is the world’s hottest city. It is the warmest inhabited place on earth, with an average annual temperature of 87.3 degrees Fahrenheit. In summer, temperatures can reach 120 degrees Fahrenheit.“
    https://www.businessinsider.com/hottest-city-in-the-world-mecca-photos-2019-8

    Paul Atriedes from Dune:
    We Fremen have a saying: “God created Arakis to train the faithful.” One cannot go against the word of God.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @Reg Cæsar
  88. @anonymous

    He neither begets nor is born….

    There is some truth to Sura 112 (assuming “Allah” means “God”).
    Surely God is One, Eternal Refuge, to Whom is no equivalent.

    Yet how do you know God does not beget?

    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

    The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

    And if God does not beget, how do you deal with Psalm 2?

    I will declare the decree:
    The Lord has said to Me,
    ‘You are My Son,
    Today I have begotten You.
    Ask of Me, and I will give You
    The nations for Your inheritance….’ Psalm 2:7, 8 (all quotes NKJV)

    Is God not speaking to His only-begotten Son?

    This is the Son, eternally begotten of the Father,
    born of the Virgin Mary, joining human flesh to Divine Life,
    to claim all believers to Himself by His death and resurrection.

  89. Dutch Boy says:

    He forgot the 6th pillar of Islam: Jihad.
    “In matters political Islam is a system of despotism at home and aggression abroad. The Prophet commanded absolute submission to the imâm. In no case was the sword to be raised against him. The rights of non-Moslem subjects are of the vaguest and most limited kind, and a religious war is a sacred duty whenever there is a chance of success against the “Infidel”. Medieval and modern Mohammedan, especially Turkish, persecutions of both Jews and Christians are perhaps the best illustration of this fanatical religious and political spirit.”

  90. Pandour says: • Website
    @Talha

    Thanks,but I have no desire to visit Morocco where Islamist brutes recently beheaded two Scandinavian female hikers.To digress,I thought Dune was a lousy movie.You appear to be a follower of the Azhar Book from that novel-thats right up there with real-life followers of the Jedi religion of Star Wars fame. What does the temperature in Saudi Arabia have to do with Muslim mentality.

    • Replies: @Talha
  91. Talha says:
    @Pandour

    Well yeah, they did and then were hunted, captured and sentenced to death:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/18/moroccan-court-orders-death-penalty-for-jihadists-who-beheaded-tourists

    Obviously you have no desire but plenty of French retirees do – to each his own.

    No, I’m just a normal Orthodox Sunni Muslim that likes Dune. Best science fiction book ever.

    The temperature of Saudi shows that it is literally the threshold of human limits for settlement. I have been there, it looks like a foreign planet. There would be nobody living there except for the reasons of religion, which is why it is silly to ask non-Muslims to move there.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  92. @Talha

    /I’m just a normal Orthodox Sunni Muslim that likes Dune. Best science fiction book ever./

    It’s been years, but I enjoyed it thoroughly as well.

    Obviously, Pandour favors the less challenging medium of cinema. Probably can’t be bothered to read too much.

    I see a common thread here …

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Pandour
  93. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    I actually don’t care whether some people like Islam or Muslims or not – this is something that preoccupies SJ(W)one Muslims, which is why you see them bending the faith this way and that to be accepted. In fact, I think it would be very problematic if certain people did like us or our faith:

    My teachers have taught me (like Dr. Shadee was also stating) that our only obligation is to present Islam as it is and let the chips fall where they may; some people will be repelled by it and some will be attracted to it. And among some who are not convinced by it; some will consider us allies, some consider us enemies – to each his own.

    If one is going to hate Islam, fine – but at least hate it for what it actually is, not some comic book version that exists only in one’s head.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @MEFOBILLS
  94. Judging by the preponderance of sentiment offered by the anti-Islam brigades here, I’d say that very few — if any — of the posters have had any but the most superficial contact with any Muslim. Quite amazing, the breadth and depth of ignorance.

    Anyone can cherry-pick the opinions of priests and rabbis, provide a litany of “white” malfeasance, or relate anecdotal evidence to portray occidental societies as a vast miasma of tormented souls who warrant commitment to mental asylums. Such denigration of the west typically triggers understandably strong reactions from those who have a demonstrable attachment to the land in which they were born and raised.

    I’m American, born and raised. There’s plenty about this country to appreciate, especially the liberty I enjoy to have an openly adverse opinion about elected representatives without suffering imprisonment or worse. There’s also plenty about this country to dislike, including the reality that it’s stuffed to the gills with petulant children who, at first glance, appear amazingly adult.

    I spent years living, working and learning in madrasat overseas. The sole American of my congregation, I had to learn a foreign language in order to comprehend and memorize religious text as well as communicate. Almost nobody around me spoke anything but the most rudimentary English.

    What I took away from my experience stands out in such stark contrast to the spin doctoring of our resident keyboard commandos, it’s difficult to know exactly where to begin — whether addressing the tragicomic misrepresentations of Islam or those of Muslims. At the end of the day, there’s just too much rubbish piled upon garbage to even bother.

    There are those who call themselves Muslim because they were born into Muslim families, then there are those who are Muslim because they fit the definition of it. The direct correlation between both study and sincere application of Islam and the overall decency of an individual is undeniable. We Muslims suffer not because of Islam, but because of our failure to practice it. Two of the countries in which I’ve lived were beset by governments which were hostile to sincere Muslims. You couldn’t even possess Qur’anic commentary in a particular language without being charged with a criminal offense. That wasn’t because of Islam, that was in spite of it.

    This has been the predominant pattern in nominally “Muslim” countries for nearly one century, and it often explains extremism when and where it rears its head.

    Irony is, many of you are so similar to Muslims, I wouldn’t be surprised if you eventually become one. You have a fervent love of your country and hope to see an end to its evident dissolution, be it the proliferation of sexual depravity, manifest decline in social manners, or predatory disposition of its political and financial institutions. Practicing Muslims endeavor to resolve these maladies, just as you do.

    Dehumanizing them is exactly what those who dragged America into Iraq and Afghanistan want from you. They fooled you after 9/11 and they continue to fool you to this day. Consciously or not, you’re the best foot soldiers money needn’t buy.

    Shameful.

    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  95. @Talha

    /If one is going to hate Islam, fine – but at least hate it for what it actually is, not some comic book version that exists only in one’s head./

    And that’s what we’re dealing with here, in this very thread: comic book fantasies, the contemporary posterity of the Arabian Nights.

    I completely concur with your earlier point, Talha. That said, more than a few in the millennial Muslim world continue to hold as sacrosanct opinions concerning adultery, apostasy, and abrogation that effectively produce hypocrisy, and they would consider my own judgment on these matters to be the very compromise you describe.

    Not everything that appears heterodox is born out of such compromise. Oftentimes, it’s a matter of analyzing the whole against its parts, which can only occur after years of deliberation.

    • Replies: @Talha
  96. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Not everything that appears heterodox is born out of such compromise.

    Yes, I get this. My personal preference, after years of study, is that I side with the opinion of Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad in the video; the consensus rulings of the ulema form a rock solid foundation that has stood the test of time. Within that consensus abides a variety of allowable differences of opinion that are considered normative and give us enough flexibility to persevere through ages and environments.

    I’m wary of shaking the foundation too much; specifically from the experiment Europe performed on itself. So for instance, why should we consider allowing this kind of public mockery to be a civilizational virtue?

    I simply do not see any reason why permitting public mockery of God is something a civilization should be proud of. Earlier generations of Europeans would certainly agree.

    Interestingly, I posted something on twitter recently about marriage and a reliable spouse being one that doesn’t chase after women/men outside their marriage. Some random person replied that I was being narrow minded and sharing one’s spouse is fine as long as it’s known – see how this is couched in altruistic and virtuous terms; sharing, trust, open-mindedness, etc.

    Again, just my take.

    In the end – Allah swt knows best.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  97. Saxon says:
    @NegroPantera

    You do know how many of those rapes and murders are done by people who aren’t exactly of European ancestry, right? You get funny little facts that the government was admitting to where tens of thousands of white women are raped by blacks every year but the inverse is typically recorded as zero. The point is these people are foreign colonizers who aren’t in these western countries organically and we were never asked or given a veto to prevent them from coming here. They don’t belong here and must go back.

  98. Biff says:
    @Seraphim

    The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

    Of course. Israel doesn’t consider the U.S.A. a friend. On the contrary, it’s a suspicious dumb uncle.

  99. JimDandy says:

    I didn’t finish the article. But, basically, Muslims and non-Muslims are living in harmony in England, France, Germany, Scandinavia, etc.? Cool. I didn’t know that. I guess I really am just an American rube.

  100. @Talha

    [Disclaimer: Long read ahead. Grab some popcorn.]

    /the consensus rulings of the ulema/

    The challenge with consensus is that there isn’t even consensus about the constitution of consensus itself. That alone poses a significant challenge to the scholar who cannot reasonably claim consensus where so much as one dissenting opinion exists.

    Take, for example, the 157th ayat of Surat an-Nisa. The following is the Sahih International translation:

    And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

    I’ve added emphasis to the passage which reads shubbiha lahum in Arabic. Variations of this same translation are found in the majority of English translations, from Pickthall to Yusuf Ali to Muhsin Khan. However, there are at least eight translations which provide a profoundly different rendering of the phrase, which reads “but the matter was made dubious to them,” (Maududi) or something similar.

    So why the difference?

    While the latter translation is grammatically precise, the former is influenced by the belief that someone other than Jesus was made to appear like Jesus and subsequently suffered the fate that the Pharisees had intended for Jesus. This appears to be corroborated by a haddith whose chain of authority reaches as far back as Ibn Abbas, but not to the Prophet. Still, the primary problem lies not in the chain per se, but in its content. If we say that God ordained this event, how can we reasonably expect eyewitnesses and those who relied upon their testimony to deny that Jesus was crucified?

    It’s tantamount to blaming God for creating a central tenet of Pauline Christianity, one which we roundly reject.

    And yet, unfortunately, this is the understanding of 4: 157 proffered throughout most of the Muslim world. Some would even assert that such an understanding enjoys a consensus of opinion while disregarding any outliers, however correct the outliers may be.

    I cite this example not because I disagree with the doctrine of consensus, but to provide evidence that the door to ijtihad should always remain open, lest we settle upon error that is potentially fatal to our convictions. Aside from the foundational tenets of faith and the definitively unambiguous, the realm of Islam is much broader than we’re often led to believe.

    What of the married adulterer? Many appeal to a consensus that such an individual must be put to death. I cannot think of a single text of classical jurisprudence that does not agree with such a legal prescription.

    And yet its supporting verse exists nowhere in The Qur’an. Our mother ‘Aisha radiALLAHU ‘anha supposedly said it was written on material that was eaten by a goat. (!) ‘Umar is reported as saying that he would have included it in The Qur’an were it not for his fear that others would accuse him of adding to the words of God. Does this strike you as characteristic of ‘Umar? That he would forego doing what should have been done because he feared people?

    Now, I still agree that most of what we have in orthodox jurisprudence — in fact, the majority of it — is unimpeachable. There is one matter you’ve touched upon, however, that deserves some attention …

    /I simply do not see any reason why permitting public mockery of God is something a civilization should be proud of. Earlier generations of Europeans would certainly agree./

    We have more than a few who would agree with it in this very forum.

    “Permitting public mockery of God” isn’t how most Americans prefer to see the First Amendment, and I doubt there’s a lot of national pride over the neurotic logorrhea of a pestiferous troglodyte like Bill Maher.

    Here’s the thing …

    Once you militate to proscribe such expression, you’ve given your enemy exactly what he wants: a rationale for proscribing your own expression. We’ve seen it in France, and we witness how hypocrite despots use this very argument in their suppression of the faithful throughout the millennial Muslim world.

    Does Maher offend Christian sensibilities? Perhaps we should ask if his opinion is even worth considering. Who, after all, is forcing us to listen to what he has to say? Do television sets still have remote controls?

    America’s faithful need to develop thick skin. We can either have a nation of hypocrites forced under color of law to respect this, that, or the other sacred thing, or we can have a nation of individuals who choose to keep faith because they’ve come to God not by coercion, but by discovering Him of their own free will.

    We cannot have both.

    /Interestingly, I posted something on twitter recently about marriage and a reliable spouse being one that doesn’t chase after women/men outside their marriage. Some random person replied that I was being narrow minded and sharing one’s spouse is fine as long as it’s known – see how this is couched in altruistic and virtuous terms; sharing, trust, open-mindedness, etc./

    The nation of denial is one.

    No consciousness of the Hereafter, nor of an objective criterion for understanding God. That’s how it’s been, that’s how it is, and that’s how it’s going to be until they have no choice in the matter.

    Sometimes, the best you can do is pity them.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  101. @PCL

    The fact that Mohamed, like Hitler, was a mass rapist

    Hitler wasn’t a “mass rapist”. There isn’t even much evidence that he was straight.

    Goose-stepping isn’t all that different from Broadway choreography, either.

  102. @Talha

    “Searching for the perfect place to enjoy their retirement years, more and more French citizens find in Morocco their retirement haven.”

    Perfect place for cheap labor and available boys. Sri Lanka serves the same purpose for Englishmen.

    • Replies: @Druid
  103. anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:

    5,900 words

    I read the first 400 or so

    but first I checked out “United American Committee.org” — sponsors of the billboard

    it’s a Frank Gaffney group
    https://www.guidestar.org/profile/20-3328621

    —> Tom Trento —>

    https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2019/05/30/enemies-within-series-tom-trento-john-guandolo-philip-haney-and-clare-lopez-report-what-america-can-learn-from-israel-wallswork/

    Tom Trento, Executive Director of The United West and Co-Author, Shariah The Threat to America
    . . .
    Clare Lopez, Former CIA Operations Officer, VP for Research & Analysis – Center for Security Policy (CSP) and co-author to many books available at CSP

    Special Guest: Dr. Danny Tirza, Col. (res.) Dr. Danny Tirza headed the strategic and spatial planning unit of the IDF Central Command from 1994 to 2007, in charge of the formulation of Israel’s security positions in negotiations with the Palestinians. He served as the IDF’s chief architect for the West Bank Security Fence.

    Excerpt from: Forbes.com article, Feb 2017:

    When it comes to planning a wall on the U.S. border with Mexico, the Trump Administration could learn a few things from Dany Tirza, the man who orchestrated Israel’s barriers on the West Bank and Sinai Peninsula.

    —>CSP

    Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.

    EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN AND FOUNDER

    Frank J. Gaffney is the Founder and Executive Chairman of the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C., a not-for-profit, non-partisan educational corporation established in 1988. Under Mr. Gaffney’s leadership, the Center has been nationally and internationally recognized as a resource for timely, informed and penetrating analyses of foreign and defense policy matters.

    Mr. Gaffney is the host of Secure Freedom Radio, a nationally-syndicated radio program heard weeknights throughout the country. He is and associate author of highly acclaimed Shariah: The Threat to Americaand the publisher of over a dozen other books and monographs from the Center for Security Policy Press.

    Gaffney displays his Scoop Jackson affiliation & endorsements from Don Rumsfeld & Ted Cruz

    they’re a bunch of ex-spooks who didn’t do that well at investment banking so resorted to shit-kicking to earn their daily unleavened bread

    all I need to know

    except to note how Jews play both sides of the game — HIAS opens the borders, Gaffney demonizes those who enter.
    Citizens fo American Security monitors what Americans learn about Islam

  104. @chief

    Without disputing at all the contribution of the Russian People to Hitler’s defeat, I’d like to point out one of Viktor Suvovov’s works _The Chief Culprit_. It is worth pointing out that the USSR, in the 1930s and 1940s, like the US after 1990, had a leadership that thought it had grand strategy figured out and made some very bad bets.

    This is to everybody’s advantage in that a knowledge of just how bad these bets can be might cause leaders to be given a bit less power.

    Counterinsurgency

  105. @Pandour

    Re: Comment by Pandour
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/deconstructing-islamophobia/#comment-3548892

    And that’s the problem. The two societies are incompatible; the societies don’t mix; it’s one side or the other.

    Counterinsurgency

  106. “…. From the first day, these Takfiris were federated by the US and financed by the House of Saud.”

    Thank you Andrei.
    Saudi Arabia and Anglo-Americans had a deal signed not so long time ago.
    This deal is very simple:

    Anglo-Americans get:
    – proping-up of US dollar as a world reserve currency
    – flow of enormous liquidity into their economies from Saudi/Gulf oil producers
    – foot soldiers and finances against strategic rivals wherever and whenever needed

    Sauidi-Arabia and Gulf emirates get to:
    – have not only a free hand but also support and cover (Russian would say “krisha”) to expand, what they see, as true version of Islam and come out as winners in, not only the ancient schism within Islamic community, but even more;
    – secure and enjoy the unimaginable wealth and luxury, provided by Anglo-Americans, while “fighting” the above cause;

    Just my 2 cents.

  107. Amon says:

    I couldn’t even get through part one of this propaganda garbage without feeling like vomiting.

  108. @AnonStarter

    There are some fundamental criticisms of Islam as a religion. The biggest one appears to be that it lacks a moral or ethical system other than “win fights against the non-believers”. Instead of system, it has rules for specific circumstances. Go beyond the circumstances and the believer is lost.
    This is a direct consequence of Islam’s rejection of anything that limits Allah’s power. If Allah could be understood to follow some general pattern, then the pattern would be a limit on Allah’s omnipotence. Therefore, Allah need not follow any general pattern. Therefore, there is no general pattern for humans to understand: human understanding is necessarily a snare and a delusion, given to humanity for the sole purpose of showing that human reason is unreliable, and must be replaced by faith in the rule’s that humanity has been given by Allah.
    God (to describe the God of Christianity) is bound by His word when given, and clearly learns from His previous experience — hence the Second Covenant. This makes human understanding functional — it becomes the study of God’s actions and God’s creations, starting with theology and expanding to include post-Galilean science, engineering, technology, and humanities.

    While there is, obviously, no way of comparing belief in God to belief in Allah (it’s the old “values are culture specific, and can’t be used to compare cultures” business again), the Western populations are dependent on human reason. Eliminating that would make their way of life impossible. By the same logic, introducing human reason as a primary source of knowledge would eliminate the spiritual peace and assurance of Islamic societies. Neither change is apt to be taken voluntarily by the societies in question.

    I should add that Judaism considers itself to be much closer to Islam than to Christianity, and has very little interest in human reasoning as a source of truth about reality, in large part because Judaism is more concerned with law than with reality — much like Islam. The saying “To argue well is the end of reason” (two English meanings for “end” here: “termination” and “ultimate goal”) could have been a response to pilpul.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  109. Richard B says:
    @7thGenTexan

    This kind of crude fear-mongering is targeted at the folks who don’t realize that the US is not “America”

    Another “writer” who has never heard of one of the fundamental attributes of language – polysemy. The word America has different semantic functions.

    It’s entirely appropriate for people from The United States of America to call themselves Americans.

    In the ideologue’s anxiety to prove themselves “right” they rarely think very carefully, or write well.

    The rest of the article is just another long-winded form of gaslighting strawmen.

  110. The ruthlessJaps, not todays’s psychoJews were all the rage during WW2

    How sick is the Bush family?

    Double, double oil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble. For a charm of powerful trouble,
    Like a hell-broth oil and bubble.

  111. Realist says:
    @7thGenTexan

    You’re new here aren’t you boy???

  112. K14 says:

    This is a long article by the Saker and I have read half way through it and will .find the free time to finish it.
    The author should have researched the topic more thoroughly before embarking on writing about it. He does not do justice to Islam, as a result of his lack of knowledge.

    On skimming through the comments, I realise that the intellectual level of the readership on this site is pretty low…

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Anon
  113. Two words: National sovereignty. Sharia law isn’t US law so has no place here. Some greatly altered version could be followed as part of a voluntary religious practice as long as there was no conflict with the Law of this land. Of course, anyone who no longer liked adhering to sharia would have every right to ignore it. Though perhaps as some kind of contract allowed by US law some parts could be legally binding for adults who signed on but this could only be enforceable as a civil penalty: Fine/forfeiture.

    Though really no group can establish itself as a sovereign nation within the bounds of another unless through lawful secession.

    I don’t understand the emotional outburst. Are you troubled in your personal life?

  114. Biff says:
    @K14

    On skimming through the comments, I realise that the intellectual level of the readership on this site is pretty low…

    Especially now.

    • Agree: joannf
  115. Avery says:
    @chief

    { the stalemate in the battle on the outskirts of Stalingrad in late 1942, }

    Good post: good retort to BS being spread by posters like [Curmudgeon].

    A couple of notes:

    There was no ‘stalemate’ at Stalingrad.
    Paulus’ powerful 6th Army, which had penetrated all the way to the Volga river, was surrounded and wiped out, at the conclusion of the Battle of Stalingrad.
    It was a crushing blow to Nazi psyche and Hitler himself.

    {And no Napoleon was not defeated by the Tsar, just like the Nazi’s were not defeated by Stalin.}

    The credit for Napoleon’s defeat goes to the patriotic Russian people, of course, but leaders have a crucial role too – in defeat and victory. In Napoleon’s invasion, it was Marshal Kutuzov’s strategy that played the crucial role. He was roundly criticized at the time by the hotheads for his slow, plodding strategy of defeating the The Grande Armée. He recognized that Napoleon was keen to engage him in set-battles, to destroy his Russian armies (Napoleon’s strength). So Kutuzov refused to play along, and instead kept engaging and withdrawing, sucking Napoleon deeper and deeper into Russia. He even refused to make a stand for the capital city Moscow (…which astonished Napoleon). But Kutuzov’s strategy proved to be brilliant. Of the ~650,000 men who invaded Russia, only ~27,000 crossed Russia’s border on their way out. The rest were killed, captured, or died of untreated wounds, froze to death, etc.

    And it can be said that USSR won WW2 not because of Stalin, but _despite_ him.
    Stalin made many serious blunders at the beginning of the Nazi invasion, that caused the unnecessary loss of millions of Red Army troops, and much territory.
    His only saving grace was that at some point he realized he was no soldier, and turned over the conduct of the war to professionals like Marshal Zhukov.

    • Replies: @joannf
  116. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @K14

    You should comment more often to raise the intellectual level .

  117. @WorkingClass

    “There is nothing the white left wouldn’t do to inflict pain on white American Christians.”

    That’s the main point of all this immigration nonsense. It’s about trying to turn everything upside down. It isn’t hard to see that bringing people directly from islamic countries to places like Minnesota is going to overturn the social order wherever these people are delivered. That’s the whole idea.

    I just got a book by Lew Rockwell titled “Against The Left”. Most people here who see themselves as being on the right will reject it without even reading it because it’s written by a libertarian, but it’s a clearly written book that points out exactly what the left (liberals, progressives,socialists or whatever they say they are now) intends to do and what they have been doing.

    The fuckers are intentionally wrecking whatever they can wreck in order to bring some kind of insane revolution to life. They are going to succeed if they aren’t stopped.

  118. Dumbo says:

    There’s nothing wrong with being “islamophobic”. It is not a Western religion, most of its adherents are hostile brown immigrants, and but for some architectural vestiges in Spain and in Sicily it has little to show that is really great. It does not seem to have done very much even for Muslims in Muslim countries. They should be free to practice it in their lands but they should not migrate to the US and Europe and promote their religion there. Of course, globo-homo is worse, but that’s another story.

  119. geokat62 says:

    Lesson of the day, goy:

    Who do you think is the sponsor of the United American Committee organization? I’ll give you three guesses, and the first two don’t count.

    This billboard should be taken down and replaced by one that states the following truth:

    The 7 Noahide Laws Threaten America and The Rest of The World

  120. @peter mcloughlin

    The “will to power” has been part of life since “the autotroph began to drool”. Nothing as complex as an amoeba would exist without it. It can be out of balance as can any of our “instincts” (whatever they are or however one attempts to define them), and as can be conditioned responses.

    Even as strong as the will to power is in some people, it is probably more often perceived threat that really sets things off by motivating a mass of people to rally around a leader rather than raw ambition.

    Life is vastly more complex than your simple formula.

    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken

  121. joannf says:

    “Iran is, in my opinion, the perfect illustration of a pluralistic (truly diverse!), progressive and freedom defending Muslim state. I simply don’t have the time and place to go into a detailed discussion…”
    Yo, saker. During this annus horribilis, one couldn’t stop noticing how your unimaginative, utterly repetitive click bait has become unrewarding. #okayboomer

  122. “Islamophobia” is a fake word used by dishonest anti-western hacks to establish false premises. erect strawmen, and then knock them down.

    There is no such thing as Islamophobia. What exists is a preference for people to live among other people like them, to the point where they will resist the arrival of foreign peoples and or cultures. Aside from the “War on Terror” propaganda, most people in the US don’t have any fear of Muslims, Arabs, Persians, or Chinese, mestizos, Hindus, and Somalians, for that matter. We just prefer to live around people like ourselves, and realize, unlike foreign wine drinking welfare queens, that to bring enough of these foreign people into our lands begins to turn these parts into replicas of their parts. It’s pretty simple math.

    But I wouldn’t expect a lecherous, disingenuous, Eastern piece of Euro-trash to understand that.

    Muh Saker, indeed.

  123. Talha says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    The biggest one appears to be that it lacks a moral or ethical system

    No, it has a moral and ethical system – just one that perhaps you (and many post-moderns) don’t agree with in its conclusion. Men like Imam Shatibi (ra) – and the Maturidi and Ash’ari schools – outlined these precepts centuries ago.

    “win fights against the non-believers”

    Also fine – as long as ethical rules of war are followed.

    If Allah could be understood to follow some general pattern, then the pattern would be a limit on Allah’s omnipotence.

    No, that is what we term the “sunnah” of Allah and it has fairly clear patterns – it’s not considered a limit on Him, rather the Divine prerogative in dealing with creation:
    “O Mu’adh, do you know what is the right of Allah upon His servants?” I said, “Allah and his messenger know best.” The Prophet said, “To worship Him alone and to associate none in worship with Him. And do you know what is their right upon Him?” I said, “Allah and his messenger know best.” The Prophet said, “Not to punish them if they do so.” – as reported by Muadh ibn Jabal (ra) in both Muslim and Bukhari

    That right of the servant is the one granted by the Divine Itself – it has no external basis or foundation.

    human reason is unreliable, and must be replaced by faith in the rule’s that humanity has been given by Allah.

    Yes, human beings can reach that conclusion rationally as well; the Divine knows far better than I do, thus it is better to observe the game plan given to me by the Divine.

    Otherwise, you can rationally conclude things like this:

    Which makes perfect sense when using rationality as a yardstick. The relationship between man and beast is necessarily exploitative. We kill them without their consent for meat and fur, steal milk, sell off their children, etc. So why is it a problem if one uses an animal for sexual gratification? One can say disease vectors, but that can easily be overcome by medicine, prophylactics or pre-emptive screening. All that remains is the “ewww” factor, which is hardly a rational basis for anything since that is simply derived by local custom/culture.

    and clearly learns from His previous experience

    If God learns, then this means the Divine knowledge is limited and deficient, which means this is not God we are talking about, but a Marvel superhero with a bunch of powers.

    it becomes the study of God’s actions and God’s creations

    The Muslim world has been doing this for centuries, again it is fine if you don’t agree with the conclusions, but to say it hasn’t been happening is simply silly.

    introducing human reason as a primary source of knowledge would eliminate the spiritual peace and assurance of Islamic societies.

    Again, we see no reason why human reason is the infallible guide when the very societies attempting to use it as such are witnessing unprecedented levels of dysfunction regarding basic concepts like gender and population collapse. Not only that, but the utter collapse of religion in the West is also something we are not keen on replicating. The West is materially awesome and scientifically advanced – no doubt, and there may be some room to learn from its mastery of material sciences – but somewhere along the way, they forgot:
    “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

    If that’s the cost for this level of material advancement, no thanks – why would we leave spiritual peace for what’s on offer?

    Peace.

  124. anarchyst says:

    Islam is a foreign political system masquerading as a “religion”. As such there need be NO Constitutional “protections” for this foreign political system.

    ALL muslims should be required to register as “agents of a foreign government” with the U S State department pending investigation and possible deportation to countries of origin. . .

    It seems to me there is another “foreign political system” masquerading as a “religion” that is interfering in MY country’s foreign policy and is wreaking havoc in my country . . . jewish zionism.

    The same registration and deportation requirements should apply to dual-nationality jews and zionists also.

    Dual-nationality should be PROHIBITED for all U S residents. American citizenship should be revoked for all those residing in the U S who hold “dual citizenship”.

    Add to that, ANY American citizen that enlists into another country’s military should also have their citizenship permanently and irrevocably terminated. This would flush out all of the traitorous jews who enlist in the IDF…

  125. anarchyst says:

    Actually Islam and Zionism have much in common. Both “cults” condemn anyone who exposes their sordid supremacist practices.

    The Q’uran and Talmud are “two sides of the same coin” and condemn those who do not think like them or believe as they do. . .

    In fact, both Islam and Zionism promote their own “supremacism”. . .Islam and Zionism are political movements couched in religious terms..

    Let’s not forget that Islam and Zionism are both creations of semitic people and have sprung from the same root-judaism.

    Looking back at the various practices of both judaism and Islam, one could safely argue that Islam is an arabic offshoot of judaism, as both “systems” express supremacy of their respective adherents.

    It is laughable to see jewish Zionists call muslims “anti-Semitic . . .

    BOTH Islam and Zionism should be condemned in the strongest terms; its adherents required to register with the US State Department as “agents of a foreign government” pending mandatory deportation to the third-world sh!thole of their choice.

    There is no room for either political system in MY country.

    By the way, all American politicians who have received funding from moslems or Zionists can leave too . . .

  126. anarchyst says:

    One area where there are massive differences between jews and muslims is the treatment accorded Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

    Jews believe that Jesus Christ is an apostate, “boiling in excrement for eternity”, while his mother Mary was a “harlot who conceived Jesus with a Roman soldier”.

    Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was a “great prophet”, not the “Son of God” but a “great prophet” nonetheless, while his mother Mary is given a place of “high honor” being specifically acknowledged in the Q’uran.

    Now tell me which belief system has a greater respect for Christianity?

    Hint: It ain’t judaism…

  127. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Some would even assert that such an understanding enjoys a consensus of opinion while disregarding any outliers, however correct the outliers may be.

    But this example is not really a good one since the outliers – or minority opinions – are still considered within the normative range. We have consensus on things like; fasting during Ramadan, 5 prayers within a day, homosexuality is immoral, etc.

    Your example is a bit like the example of how the majority opinion is that the son that was supposed to be sacrificed by Ibrahim (as) was Ismael (as), while the minority opinion that is was Ishaac (as) also exists. The existence of minority opinions does not negate consensus. The consensus in this example would be that it wasn’t a third unnamed son.

    I cite this example not because I disagree with the doctrine of consensus, but to provide evidence that the door to ijtihad should always remain open, lest we settle upon error that is potentially fatal to our convictions.

    The door of ijtihad is always open; scholars are still deriving rules for the latest bio-medical practices, financial transactions, etc. The question that comes to my mind is; do I trust the scholars who were closer to the time of the Prophet (pbuh) in their conclusions or somebody coming today that is mired in a world in which Muslims have lost their confidence and surrounded by post-modern presuppositions?

    And yet its supporting verse exists nowhere in The Qur’an.

    The ruling is not based on Qur’an – it is based on solid hadith. I don’t know of any school that says it is based on an unverified verse from a proto-Qur’an. Hadith are used as evidence for rulings as well.

    you’ve given your enemy exactly what he wants: a rationale for proscribing your own expression.

    I agree, I hate hypocrisy. Thus, I am willing to abide by my speech being restricted by the majority if they decide to do so. That’s the breaks – no harm, no foul. All speech in society (even the US) is restricted based on perceived harm to society. I cannot share government secrets with a foreign power since that is treason. I cannot share inside knowledge with my family since that is insider trading. There are laws against defamation and libel. No where does complete and unrestricted speech exist; people simply differ on where the cost-benefits lead to. Since we live in a materialist society; the restrictions on speech are simply concerned with perceived loss of materials.

    individuals who choose to keep faith because they’ve come to God not by coercion

    I agree here, but I’m not talking about forcing conversions or anything. I’m talking about restricting public blasphemy, mockery and denigration of God. If people don’t like or even hate God, fine – no problem – just don’t be stupid and denigrate Him in public. If you want to challenge belief, do so in an academic and civil manner – write tomes for all I care; I have no problems with this.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  128. wow says:

    This may be one of the biggest loads of shite ever written on the internet!

  129. US Americans were ignorant about Islam before the 9/11 false flag. Since 2001 they have been mentally and emotionally crippled by Zionist-inflicted PTSD. This article might help a few recover from their illness. The rest can keep vomiting bloody bile into the comments section.

    The Saker suggests that the main (only?) public-policy-relevant difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam supports the death penalty while Christianity opposes it. That may be vaguely true at a hyper-general level. But historically speaking I doubt there has been less capital punishment in Christiandom than Islamdom. And the since the Qur’an makes it clear that God’s mercy ultimately prevails over His wrath, and since its prescriptions for harsh justice are tempered by injunctions that mercy is better, virtually all Islamic scholars agree that it is always better for, say, the families of murder victims to forgive, rather than execute, the murderer of their loved ones. Even the Taliban, when its judges preside over murder trials, make every effort to convince victims’ family members to forgive and let the killer go free (typically after paying a fine). So Islam has its own way of being anti-capital-punishment.

    • Troll: MikeatMikedotMike
  130. Emmet says:

    Sorry, but the article is verbose nonsense. “Islamophobia” is a recently-invented word intended to portray those who have very good reason to be suspicious of Islam as mentally ill.

  131. So The Orange Miss Piggy (TOMP), Jo(e) Swine-Scot has stuffed his/her/its piggy snout into Rothschild’s pozzed anti-GWM rat-hole.

    [MORE]

    I would say the TOMP ho swallowed kosher pozzage, but TOMP ain’t just Too Tall, she also –
    Too Dumpy
    Too Ugly
    Too Pig-Nosed
    Too Pig-Cheeked
    Too Gap-Toothed
    Too Mousey Haired
    Too Broad-Shouldered
    Too Much +Size20
    Too Scots

    So there must be another reason the Rats chose you as their Misandrist Poz-Pusher.

    No GWM will vote for such an orange frump, so unfeminine that it wears disgusting tops showing its broad manly shoulders + tranny blobs of chest fat. I could see the years of who range diet – porcine pink deep fried mars bars. Had to delay my meal.

    I guess the diet of dfmb, bru, religious bigotry, violence, & post-wall lunacy are a feature not a bug for Rothschild.

    Srsly (Spiked is Right) sick of all these NPC frumpols acting as judasrats to White Men. Wish one of the Piggy Mr(s) Doibtfire Parents had taken one too many heroin shots @ da Lodge, worn hiHeels & smashed their skull!

    White Men should refuse these NPC hags:
    Car Repairs
    Rubbish Collection
    Heavy Lifting jobs
    Electrics
    Plumbing
    & SAF don’t vote these dirtt orange racists libdems!!!

    NicolasWintonKrankeesDoubleAct

  132. Wally says:
    @yurivku

    said
    “Did you hear about Napoleon, Hitler and many-many others?

    – Yes, they were repelled by mostly Russians, however let’s not try the old ‘innocent USSR’ bit when it comes to Hitler’s forced pre-emptive strike.

    – Hitler merely defended Germany & all of Europe against the very real planned aggression of Stalin’s USSR.

    [MORE]

    recommended”

    The Soviet Union Conspired to Foment World War II and Infiltrate the U.S. Government: By John Wear : https://codoh.com/library/document/6807/?lang=en
    exc:
    “If the Waffen-SS had not existed, Europe would have been overrun entirely by the Soviets by 1944. They would have reached Paris long before the Americans. Waffen-SS heroism stopped the Soviet juggernaut at Moscow, Cherkov, Cherkassy and Tarnopol. The Soviets lost more than 12 months. Without SS resistance the Soviets would have been in Normandy before Eisenhower. The people showed deep gratitude to the young men who sacrificed their lives.[15]”
    Why Germany Attacked the Soviet Union, Hitler’s Declaration of War Against the USSR – Two Historic Documents, by Mark Weber: http://www.unz.com/article/why-germany-attacked-the-soviet-union/
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

  133. DanFromCT says:
    @Talha

    The Prophet commanded total submission to the imam, despotism at home, and aggression abroad. In morals, where Islam isn’t commonplace or borrowed from elsewhere, it’s evil by Western criteria. Raising “Islamophobia” in the face of the threat Islam poses everywhere it flourishes says less about Islam than it does about the hatred of the accuser for those he’s addressing.

    Given that religion presupposes human imperfection, it’s mendacious to argue human imperfection discredits religion. Secular humanism, on the other hand, assumes the perfectibility of man and consequently its track record of evil dwarfs that of all religious history by a factor of ten thousand or more.

    For God’s sake, never back down from someone who uses words like “Islamophobia” or “Antisemitism” to accuse you of the hate that his using these words only demonstrates that he has for you.

    • Agree: Sick of Orcs
    • Replies: @Talha
  134. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Merkel , the childless islamophilic german politician

  135. Pandour says: • Website
    @AnonStarter

    The less challenging medium of cinema you say-what high school if any did you finish-that is an infantile fallacy in argument as any educated individual knows-you know nothing about my cinematic tastes.

  136. joannf says:
    @Avery

    Napoleon was never militarily defeated by Russians at all -what a joke ! Kutuzov had a tactic ? He just ran.
    The Emperor won all the battles, even on the retreat from Moscow. They didn’t even manage to cut him off at the Beresina.
    Neither the Russian soldiers nor their generals were ever up to their French counterparts.
    In essence, the French defeated themselves by being overoptimistic and not understanding basic logistics.
    The same happened to the Germans in WW2, who sort of psychologically outmanoeuvred themselves.
    Russians were, are and will always be Kulaks whose only strength lies in numbers.
    Mere cannon fodder.

    • Agree: byrresheim
    • Troll: Cyrano
  137. “apostasy, and abrogation that effectively produce hypocrisy”

    I am curious about what constitutes hypocrisy and to whom it applies. If I am not a Muslim, there’;s not reason for me to be concerned about said apostasy unless it affects me in some manner.

    ————————

    “I simply do not see any reason why permitting public mockery of God is something a civilization should be proud of. Earlier generations of Europeans would certainly agree.”

    Two observations:

    1. I think you are misleading yourself. The fact that the country allows count views of faith and practice a source of what tolerance allows. I am proud I live in a country that permits others to have views about my faith that utterly disparages Christ. And that they can do so minus the fear of being shot down in a local restaurant is certainly comforting.

    2. I am not the least bit happy or proud about that disparagement.

    And I wince every time anyone starts suggesting we make laws that ban criticising matters of faith or people who embrace faith.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  138. W. I. says:

    Conclusion: cui bono? the US deep state

    […] This is so obvious that there is nothing to add here. I will only add that I am convinced that the US deep state is also supporting both the Alt-Right phenomenon and the various “stings” against so-called “domestic terrorists” (only only Muslims, by the way). What the Neocons and their deep-state need above all is chaos and crises which they used to shape the US political landscape.

    Of course, “that’s obvious”, but people are brainwashed, or more accurately THEY DON’T WANT to know. Here’s complementary info dated October 2001 on the “brainwashing” (Islam is the basis of terrorism):

    {Excerpts}

    #14
    Novaya Gazeta
    No. 75
    October 2001
    THE THIRD FORCE OF WORLD WAR III

    […]

    “THE WESTERN SCRIPT”

    “Using techniques of manipulating public opinion, the West is trying to establish the illusion of a global forces with the fascist- like ideology of Wahhabi fundamentalism. As far as the West is concerned, Wahhabi and Islam are the same thing. It is because of this that the essential terrorism of Wahhabi ideas is being formulated so simply for public consumption: all Muslims are terrorists by nature.

    The preliminary objective of brainwashing (Islam is the basis of terrorism) is thus achieved. Therefore, the terrorist world of Islam should be maneuvered into fighting Russia. Russia and the Muslim world will destroy each other, and the West will gain access to the natural resources on their territories. The dollar pyramid will straighten once again, and the economic crisis will be over. Life goes on.”

    […] “A Taliban invasion of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan will follow. Conflicts with Iran and Iraq will follow. The second phase of preferable armed conflicts is as follows: Iran and Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan, Turkey and Greece, Georgia and Abkhazia, China and Taiwan, North Korea and South Korea, Israel and Palestine, and escalation of the situation in Chechnya. Russia will inevitably find itself dragged into some war or other, and declare general mobilization. Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, and some other ethnic republics will refuse to go to war under those circumstances. The rest of the population of Russia will also object. All this may result in a drastic destabilization in Russia, and a loss of control. Things may even reach extremes, ending in a military coup or disintegration of the Russian Federation.

    However, some details indicate that this particular script has bogged down. The world is different now. In the past, it was sufficient to torch the Reichstag or assassinate a prince; but now, even the horrors of September 11 no longer suffice.

    That is why some sort of “fuel” is needed to give the script momentum – terrorist attacks on the scale of September 11, but not in America alone. Over there, in Europe, and in Russia as well. Anthrax is just a prelude. Controllable terrorism, however, has its own limits. Russia knows, for example, that “Chechen terrorists” will no longer suffice. After all, linking them to Islam is fairly difficult.

    But even that is not the key point. Certain indirect aspects indicate that the script considered here is not the only one. Most probably, it is not even the whole script, just part of an even larger one. In accordance with the latter, Russia and the Muslim world fighting each other are not the only objectives. The West and Israel are too. It follows that some unknown Contractor and Player must be present somewhere. This script becomes possible when we assume that some Western elites and secret services made a kind of covert pact with this still-unknown Player.”

    http://www.russialist.org/archives/5497-14.php

  139. Agent76 says:

    May 6, 2003 “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” – A Summary Blueprint of the PNAC Plan for U.S. Global Hegemony

    Some people have compared it to Hitler’s publication of Mein Kampf, which was ignored until after the war was over.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm

    May 17, 2009 The New American Century. Part 1/10

    This film goes in detail through the untold history of The Project for the New American Century with tons of archival footage and connects it right into the present.

    06.04.2015 Imagery and Empire: Understanding the Western Fear of Arab and Muslim Terrorists

    The notion that the majority of terrorist attacks are committed by Arabs or Muslims not only lacks a historical perspective, but is an unempirical argument that is tied to modern Orientalism that is alive and kicking. Orientalism, itself is heavily tied to US views of exceptionalism. It is an area of thinking where exceptionalists and racist views coincide profoundly. In fact, there is a thin line between all three.

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/04/06/imagery-empire-understanding-western-fear-arab-and-muslim-terrorists.html

  140. We got Fred Reed banging a Mexican, so all Mexicans are (suddenly) all right.

    Derbyshire has a Chinese wife, so WONDERFUL MAKE BIG DRAGON CHINA #1.

    Who is the Find Hot Muslims In Your Area The Saker’s banging?

    • LOL: AaronB
  141. KenH says:

    I don’t have time at the moment to read the entire article but I wonder when Saker the Woke will deconstruct the Anglophobia, theory of white privilege and anti-white hate in the U.S. and throughout the West a certain racial group leading it?

    Probably never since defending white Europeans against unwarranted attacks and conspiracy theories demonizing them is “white supremacy” while defending Muslims or other non-whites is courageous and laudable.

  142. Pick your poison. The truth is that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are equally evil, but in slightly indifferent ways. In that each lead good people into committing immoral deeds they would otherwise have no inclination or reason to commit – like indiscriminately dropping bombs on people you have never seen and don’t know, shooting unarmed mothers and teen-agers in the back and legs, and blowing up, with car bombs, large numbers of people in public places.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  143. Although I know there are many things in this article that could be debated or argued, I agree with the basic point.

    It has taken me several years to come full circle about Islam in general. First, the Iraq war which was such an obvious sham that of course I sympathized with the Iraqi Muslims. However, when the “leaked” videos surfaced of the burning and torture of people by Isis- i.e. Muslims, this caused a knee jerk reaction of hate. As time has gone by and independent journalism has given a non-propaganda version of events concerning the Middle East, it seems that this “radical” Islam was created about the same time that Israel was forced upon the Middle East in the 60’s, and the U.S. was sucked into this affair. This is when the Muslims vs. Christians crisis began.

    Therefore, I realize I have been played by the Zionists and jewish media. Well played my friends, but as always, truth will find its way. The real problem is the Zionist-Empire that needs to be destroyed from the inside out like they have destroyed America and its constitutional ideals from the inside out. Until we end Israel and its hold on our government we will continue to get involved in these endless wars.

    • Agree: Druid
  144. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous

    What is the relation to Russia? The author of this article (Saker) is an eccentric Swiss and Dutch man, who is an immigrant in America.

    The attitude of Russia, is simply toleration and moderation to different religions – certainly at the official level.

    In general, the public (including many people from Muslim nationalities) does not support Islam, unlike in the West.

    Actually I was surprised with a significant culture difference in the internet, when there was an attack in a mosque in New Zealand earlier this year. In the English internet forums I visit (which is only this one), everyone has opposed the attack. Whereas in the Russian internet forums (both liberal and conservative), a large proportion of people support it.

    Obviously, supporting such an attack on innocent people is partly a sign of childish idiocy of the internet users, but it does reflect that there is also less pro-Islam views compared to in Western forums (like here).

    • Replies: @L.K
  145. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @joannf

    Yes , and criminal Napoleone won in Waterloo also , and in Leipzig, and Bailen , Arapiles , San Marcial , Vitoria , Berezina ……..

    french , like germans and germanoids , win battles but lose the wars

    • Replies: @joannf
  146. @joannf

    Perhaps a bit too strongly worded, but that is a permissible reaction to russian over-enthusiasm.

    Kutusow did the right thing, whether you call it running or strategic retreat. He als did not need to waste his troops lives on winning battles against a foe still dangerous even in utter defeat.

    The Wehrmacht was not stopped at Moscow, the Wehrmacht literally ran out of gas.

    This should have been a warning to be heeded.

    It was not.

    • Replies: @joannf
  147. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Don`t you think that not filling your car with gas before of a long trip , and running out of gas in the middle of the road is proper of morons ? Are you insinuating that the germans are morons ? or just saying that germans are morons ?

    The germans arrived at the doors of Moscow defeated , the germans lost 1.000.000 of their best troops since the start of operation Barbarrosa in the way to Moscow . If Hitler had signed an armistice then , dozens of millions of lives of european people would have been saved , including germans . Don`t you think that it would have been a good thing for all europeans ?

    Heinz Guderian wrote in his journal that “the offensive on Moscow failed … We underestimated the enemy’s strength, as well as his size and climate. Fortunately, I stopped my troops on 5 December, otherwise the catastrophe would be unavoidable.”[76] ,

    from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow . ” we understimated ” , says Guderian , what do you think ? , they understimated and dozens of millions of europeans died .

  148. Talha says:
    @DanFromCT

    Look, I have studied this religion for well over a decade under qualified muftis of the Hanafi school of law. I also studied theology and creed under a mufti that himself studied directly under the late Shaykh Adib Kallas (ra) – a mountain of knowledge among the scholars of Syria. Keep this in mind when you try to teach me my religion. To commence…

    The Prophet commanded total submission to the imam

    No – he stated specifically that if the leader asks you to do something in disobedience to Allah, one should NOT obey.

    despotism at home

    Despotism is the norm among many societies – Muslim and non-Muslim. Europeans did not get of despotism by a conversation across the table; they shed tons and tons of blood to be rid of their despots. A price they were willing to pay, but perhaps the Muslim world doesn’t since the price is too high.

    and aggression abroad

    In pre-modern times, this was the norm – you either expanded or were expanded upon. If you understand what the Muslim scholars have formulated, then you understand that Islam has rules for the age of empires and for the age of international treaties and regulations – and most Muslim nations are actually abiding by them, they are the ones being invaded and bombed.

    When Europeans march themselves back from Australia, and the Americas, we will consider this criticism to be in good faith. Otherwise, it is hypocritical – and hypocrisy deserves ridicule:

    it’s evil by Western criteria

    OK – but who says we are interested in being critiqued by Western criteria. The West thinks men should be able to marry men and has public gay pride parades and aborts millions of its own babies proudly. Why should Muslims take Western criticisms of morality seriously?

    And I know plenty of Western converts to Islam. I come across more, all the time; we just had a guy convert last week at our mosque – happens about once a month.

    consequently its track record of evil dwarfs that of all religious history by a factor of ten thousand or more

    Secular humanism has been around for merely a few decades. Now if you are talking atheism, then atheism has a pound-for-pound bloodier record than anything else – accomplishing practically all of it within the last century.

    As a side note – secular humanists make great dhimmis because they expect everyone else to do the fighting. Prove me wrong.

    “Islamophobia”

    Apparently you didn’t see my note that “Islamophobia” is a stupid term that should be ridiculed.

    Look, if you want to kick Islam out of the West (because the West is so open and Islam is not – hat tip to Popper’s Paradox), I understand – not a problem – just come out and say so. I simply can’t stand people coming up with contrived or silly reasons.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DanFromCT
  149. Emslander says:
    @I'm Tyrone

    You couldn’t be more incorrect. The article above, as someone has already pointed out, sets up a straw man topic, defines it with straw man definitions and then supports it by knocking down straw men arguments.

    Because adherents to a Faith see and practice it differently is a product of its spiritual nature. Some Christians are called or believe they are called to practice their Faith more intensely. They take it to a different level by becoming contemplatives or practicing celebacy as ordained religious. Some members of Islam feel they are called to holiness and carry on practices very much like Christian monks. Very few of either Faith do so. Very few of either Faith strap on bombs and blow themselves up in crowds in furtherance of the Faith, but some do. The call and the unique behavior of any of these people, Islam or Christian, is a matter of their deeply spiritual approaches and is beyond the analysis of shallow thinking.

    It’s clear that Saker is a Christianophobe or he wouldn’t have gone to the effort to compose such a lot of rubbish about the two Faiths.

  150. Avery says:
    @joannf

    Yes, of course: Napoleon won in Russia. That’s why his Grande Armée was reduced from 685K to 27K, while they were vacationing in Russia. Napoleon won, that’s why he abandoned the puny remainder of his army at the Berezina River and ran. After his rousing ‘victory’ in Russia, and the loss of his veteran troops and the Grande Armée, he was never able to re-build his strength, and was eventually defeat and ignominiously exiled by the hated Brits. .

    Same with Hitler: he also won a resounding victory against Soviet Union. And to celebrate his and his Nazi goons’ victory over the Slavic Untermenschen, he immolated himself, as the Red Army troops were closing in on the supposed 1,000- year Reichstag.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @joannf
  151. TKK says:
    @22pp22

    Yes, I have lived in Turkey and Indonesia and find his analysis academic and therefore pointless.

    The “Saker” has only theoretical knowledge and no practical sense of how oppressive and claustrophobic Muslim culture is.

    Honor killings are very real, even in Istanbul proper, and an innocent texting romance can lead to violence, false imprisonment and murder. This primitive concept of “honor” dictates how a woman is allowed to move through society.

    Tourists (female) are monitored by everyone, and if she dares to bring an adult male back to her room, she may be kicked out, ignored for service or watched by the police.

    There is rampant gay sex in all Muslim cultures, and one of the reasons so many degenerate Germans gays flock to Bodrum and Marmaris beaches. The Turkish boys let them perform fellatio on them, bugger them and charge them. They take the money home to ANNE ( mama) or their wives. Everyone knows but no one speaks of it.

    Islamic countries have all the degeneracy on the level of San Fransisco, its just more underground and the rules are not clear. Step over the line, and you might disappear. Who protects you? Who needs to flex a pious muscle today?

    Funny how the Saker (?) leaves out the sociopath Akhmad Kadyrov. Putin brings him to heel but does nothing to stop his King Joeffry rule.

    But, who has Islamaphobia in the US? Besides Pamela Gellar? The woke left and press worship and protects the same people who might throw their gay brother off a roof.

    As a Public Service Announcement to anyone tinkering with moving to a Muslim country- don’t buy into this wikipied copy and paste opinion piece. It’s Disney Islam. But don’t draw any cartoons.

    They will kill you for it.

    • Replies: @TKK
    , @AaronB
  152. @I'm Tyrone

    Fine to allow NO mass immigration of nonEuropeans into the USA and other western lands.

    But any comparison between (nonMuslim) Filipinos and Muslim immigrants is unfair and ridiculous. Filipinos are not trained from birth to hate, disrespect, and kill or subjugate everyone who thinks differently from them. Muslims are.

    Filipinos typically don’t immigrate to the USA or Europe with the intention of milking the natives through welfare as Muslims obviously do, as shown by actual results from both groups’ immigration.

    Allowing Muslims to settle in one’s country is suicidal. (NonMuslim) Filipinos are no comparison. I wouldn’t allow mass immigration of any nonEuropean group, Christian or not, but let’s not conflate the Filipino people with Muslims.

    As for Mexicans being Christian, it sure hasn’t stopped them from colonizing us and making this a stupider, dirtier, poorer, less trusting, less friendly, less unified place.

    The supposedly deep Christian roots in Mexican culture doesn’t stop an unusual number of them from being lazy, dishonest, and effectively stealing from us (coming here or staying here knowing they have no realistic prospects for good employment, having children and then MORE children knowing we will pay and they will rarely be able to pay even the majority of expenses for their own brood). The supposedly Christian culture of Mexicans doesn’t stop enough of them from being filthy pigs so that streets and alleyways are full of trash, even remnants of food, and graffiti. Not as egregiously and universally as African neighborhoods, but pretty damn bad.

    The descendants of Aztecs, Incas, mayas, whatever, do not belong here and are deadly to our culture, and our safety and peace and prosperity, in large numbers. The overplayed Christian roots of their culture don’t change that sufficiently.

    Also, much of what people actually get from their priests is not useful moral instruction but just incoherent babble — jargon, flowery language that means nothing, conclusory assertions, lists of irrelevant ancient people and events. So how does catholic Mass or “education” nowadays really prepare Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans to live among us and like us?

    And why should we believe, from experience, that the positive aspects of the Christian religion trump the naturally lower levels of intelligence and the very different understanding of what is logical, decent, and right that prevail among these Indio and mestizo midwits and dimwits? (Actually, some of the most vicious Mexican gang members in SoCal are drawn from the small minority that is almost all white, so let’s not just pick on the mestizo and Indio parts of their population.)

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  153. TKK says:
    @TKK

    It’s the boy king- Ramzan. His father Akhmad was killed.

    A major human rights crisis is unfolding in the Russian region of Chechnya. Hundreds of gay men are being abducted, tortured and even killed in an anti-LGBT purge.

    A report published in the independent Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta described how at least 100 men have been detained in World War Two-era concentration camps for LGBT people, where prisoners face abuse and torture of unimaginable proportions. Men ranging from the age of 16 to 50 have been reported missing, including two television reporters.

    It is even more dangerous for LGBT people in the southern Russian republic of Chechnya, which although is within Russia’s borders, is autonomous and under the control of Kremlin-approved Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov – an autocrat who has been described as Vladimir Putin’s attack dog.

    https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/deadly-anti-lgbt-crisis-unfolding-chechnya-1616551

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  154. @Avery

    Man for man, the nazi soldiers thumped the Soviet ones badly. How do the casualties on the two sides compare, from the nazi invasion and rebuff?

    As for nazis being “goons”, what were soviets exactly? Without of course using the word Untermenschen, the soviets treated conquered peoples (and the poor Russians themselves) just like that.

    If you’re glad the soviets prevailed over the nazis, or prefer soviet communism to national socialism, fine. But let’s not pretend that the poor innocent soviets were victims, nor that they fought as effectively as the nazi “thugs” given the drastic difference in casualties between the two.

    Perhaps fairest to view them as people fighting at the direction of thug regimes on both sides. The Russians can at least say that they were defending their home and their people against an intended extermination, because even if the ussr was planning to attack Germany, the Germans actually did attack Russia, and their ideology had terrible things in mind for nonGermans.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Avery
    , @Cyrano
  155. joannf says:
    @Anon

    Well, Waterloo was a tight match, let us say Grouchy lost it. Napoleon never was at Bailen or Salamanca and as I said, he won Beresina. Tsk, tsk.

    • Replies: @Anon
  156. @I'm Tyrone

    Filipinos assimilate as do many Mexicans. Muslims not so much. I notice the “cuckserative” phrase used by atheists who think christianity bends over for the Jews which is complete BS when talking about real Christianity.

  157. joannf says:
    @byrresheim

    Hmm-mm… I wanted to be provocative 😉
    I have some admiration of today’s Russian Army and leadership, and the way they enabled the US to mostly get out of Syria – I like to see it that way – and they were certainly never sissies, but I do hate verbal really jingoism of any kind, and I do believe that caution is a very important element of military strategy. So, nothing against Kutusov. I wonder what Suvorov would have done.

  158. @RadicalCenter

    Sometimes EU does the right thing- and sends antifa squealing:
    https://diem25.org/new-eu-resolution-how-anti-fascism-and-fascism-became-the-same-thing/

    New EU resolution: how anti-fascism and fascism became the same thing

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2019-0021_EN.html

    European Parliament resolution of 19 September 2019 on the importance of European remembrance for the future of Europe

    • Replies: @Anon
  159. joannf says:
    @Avery

    Don’t be absurd, the outcome of campaigns has many reasons (which I stated in my initial comment).
    Trying to selectively claim a generally greater affinity to glory and fighting spirit or other bullshit is however the mark of a pundit attempting to project national, racial or cultural superiority – that’s what you were (maybe subconsciously) doing, if you look at it realistically. Pride, eh ?
    It’s unfair to use this on Westerners – it’s now forbidden here.

    I’m not saying Russkies don’t deserve any of that, they sure do, and I appreciate their presence in the momentary political scenario. But hey, try to stay a bit cool about your self-admiration. It wasn’t you, it was other people whose heroics you’re boasting with, and they’re all dead by now.

    But I’m only slightly disappointed, and we can call it even (cannonfodder / untermenschen).
    What really set me off is the sakers’ total ignorance of history, what Islam is really about, and what distinguishes it from Christianity.
    Not really your problem of course, and neither that of Kutusov.

  160. I clicked agree, especially for the conclusion.

    But it’s kinda embarassing that we take such umbrage at a host people not respecting western tourists’ “right” to fornicate, commit adultery, or commit perversions.

    If the host population weren’t apparently so busily engaged in some of the same perversions, they’d have more credibility and I could actually understand them not allowing foreigners to come to their home and engage in such behavior.

  161. @Lot

    You have a real proper name (not to look back) But I do have a news for you. It is not working if you try to excel in history.

  162. Avery says:
    @RadicalCenter

    {Man for man, the nazi soldiers thumped the Soviet ones badly.}

    I have never said otherwise: in other threads and posts I have said this: “The Wehrmacht was the finest military force in its time…..at least a rung above its near-peers” or words to that effect. They routed the British Expeditionary force: Brits ran like chickens. They defeated the French in less than 2 months*. They conquered all of Europe in a matter of months. Even in their retreat from SU, they every so -often turned on their pursuers and gave them a bloody nose.

    At the Battle of the Bulge, the decimated, blooded remains of the once mighty Wehrmacht routed US ground troops, who were only saved by USAF.

    {If you’re glad the soviets prevailed over the nazis, or prefer soviet communism to national socialism, fine.}

    I don’t. But given a choice between the two (and ONLY the two), I would choose Communists.
    Why? Because, Nazis, if victorious, would eventually exterminate anyone who was not Germanic. Communists murdered based on class, not on one’s ethnicity, which you cannot change. There were Communists of all ethnicities**.

    { The Russians can at least say that they were defending their home and their people against an intended extermination,..}

    EXACTLY.

    _______________
    * Despite their rapid defeat, the French army had as many divisions as the invading Germans, more and newer tanks, and more field guns: yet Germans routed them. They were that good.

    ** To be clear, I have no love for Communists: when the Bolshevik army entered Armenia (1921), (mostly) Armenian Bolsheviks murdered or organized the murders of several thousand Armenian officers, Armenian patriots, who had resisted the Bolsheviks. And Anastas Mikoyan was either #2 or #3 in Stalin’s circle: he managed to survive Stalin’s purges, and outlasted him.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  163. Why do ignorant people use the word “deconstruction” when they don’t know what it means?

  164. Cyrano says:
    @joannf

    You forgot to include the famous line that winter defeated the Germans, not the Russians. Apparently, the Israelis have heard about this joke too. I forgot who it was, one Israeli general during the Yom Kippur war jokingly said that he followed the “Russian tactics” from WW2 – fall behind the 2nd line of defense and wait for the snow. And he said – wouldn’t you know it – actually the snow started to fall, which is a rarity in Israel. So it does seem to work – both for Israel and USSR, because they won – thanks to winter weather.

  165. Lets not forget the main reality.
    There in discrimination in Old testament, (God chosen people.)
    There is discrimination in Koran (For Muslims and non Muslims are different tax laws.)
    There is no discrimination in New testament.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  166. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Most of the EU citizens don`t givea sh…. about what the parasites of the Europarlament say .

  167. The largest Muslim population in the world is in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, so it behooves to ask those who chose not to convert to Islam, how do they feel about having the “other” in their midst, just as if nearly half of the population in the Levant had either taken up or had been forced to accept Buddhist beliefs and how would the natives would like it. Perhaps, Islam is best for the semitic Arabs and not so good for the non Semites.

  168. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @joannf

    Ok , Napo won Waterloo , it was Napo sargeants who lost , I see .

    The french have the expression ” Quelle Berezina ” or ” C`est la Berezina ” to say what a disaster, what a defeat , what a chaos , what a loss …..

    http://www.linternaute.fr/expression/langue-francaise/5523/c-est-la-berezina/

    So when the french daily language has such an expression you can imagine how big was the defeat of the french armies in Berezina and in the russian campaign , but you say Napo won , ok my friend , mon ami , where are you from ?

    Maybe Napo also won the battle of Bailèn ( Spain , 1808 ) , the first important defeat of the Napo armies in Europe , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bail%C3%A9n , in which a whole army of 25.000 napoleonic troops was captured or killed by the Spanish armies , but if you believe the french won it is up to you .

    • Replies: @joannf
  169. @TKK

    Yes, it’s much better to have the new western approach of physically mutilating, drugging, and perverting, and confusing innocent children, encouraging them to believe that they are the opposite sex, telling them that inherently unhygienic, unsafe, disease-spreading “sex” is just peachy, and teaching them that dying without a family (other than other diseased barren misfits they can debauch and commiserate with) is cool.

    While either extreme is to be avoided, which society is taking the healthier, more natural, more family- and nation-sustaining approach here?

    We have no business lecturing Chechnya or Russia on human rights whatsoever, given our record of unnecessary nondefensive mass murder abroad, let alone on sexual perversion and destruction of families — our societies’ recent specialty.

    Torture of such people is wrong and unnecessary. Expulsion, though, is another story. Good for Chechnya not being willing to open the door to the sickness that afflicts our “enlightened” but yet (coincidentally) unhappy, diseased, and literally dying people.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @TKK
  170. @Avery

    That’s an eminently reasonable comment, and thank you for your thoughts.

    By calling Slavs sub-humans, the Nazis ensured that even people who truly hated living under communism would still fight to the last breath against nazi invaders. They figured even the hell of communism was less bad than certain extermination on racial grounds.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @MEFOBILLS
  171. @RadicalCenter

    TKK, I know you’re not advocating the stuff I’m railing against here.

  172. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    “There is no discrimination in New testament.”

    Really? Maybe you should start reading it.

  173. @joannf

    “Russians were, are and will always be Kulaks whose only strength lies in numbers.”

    Like in Syria nowadays?

    When Kutuzov retreated, according to you he ran.
    When Napoleon ran, according to you he retreated.
    Indeed it is a great victory to lose many more soldiers than the enemy.

    So, we shall from now on call Dien Bien Phu a great victory.

    So, we shall from now on call the war agains Gemany in 1940 a great victory.

    And the independance of Algeria also a great victory for France.

    The French army nowadays is so competent and powerful that it cannot come to an end with Africans warriors in Mali.

  174. “the belief that Islam (the religion) ”

    Islam is not a religion, but a totalitarian political ideology which uses the religion as a tool to fanatize its adherents. And this is the case from the very beginning.

  175. @Eliseo

    Islam may or may not have been spread by the sword, while minus the sword, there’s no reason to believe Catholicism would have ever spread beyond Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal.

    • Agree: L.K
  176. The Franks and the Muslims after 200 years, and despite economic relations never developed cultural affinity.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2756140/Rotherham-child-abuse-victim-confronts-alleged-abuser-street-SHE-arrested-van-load-police.html

    The Saker simply elides gracefully the systematic rape of the English by predominately Muslims with Jewish collusion and state support in Britain – at Rotherham, Oxford, Brighton Bulford and the literally hundreds of other towns.

    Labour MP Linda Champion said based on the government records she has seen up to 1million white girls had been raped brutally by Muslims since about 1970.

    Not the ‘rape’ of a Harvard graduate. The real, torturous, sustained, group, implement included rape that destroys anatomy and physchology.

    Surely it’s different in America than in India, and Myanmar, and Bangladesh, and Nigeria, and Serbia, and Sudan, and the Philippines, and China, and the Central African Republic….

    https://vladtepesblog.com/2018/02/07/those-people-who-ate-with-me-drank-danced-laughed-they-talk-about-me-as-stupid-german-whore/

    It’s like the Saker just wants to pretend the mass refugee rape and pillage of Europe never happened. Yes, they were brought into Europe by the Jews but they committed those rapes and murders of their own accord. These disgusting slimy cretinous hairy swarthy mudslimes regard all western women as chattel whores, which might be true even, but it isn’t true for little girls before they get the Jew-poz.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2014/08/27/Muslim-gang-rapists-are-springing-up-everywhere-Why-can-t-we-be-honest-about-it/

    The Muslims rape gangs are real. The fact that the Jews through people like Jeffrey Epstein are involved in even more rape and child-sacrifices and snuff filming doesn’t mean that mass muslims race rape isn’t happening.

    Even a soft Libertarian like Glenn Reynolds said everyone involved in the Rotherham rape and cover-up should have been hanging from a lamp-post.

    And some of us have seen the excerpts of the pseudo-Royal Commission investigations and report – which is absolutely harrowing with young girls under 12 being gang-raped sometimes 5 times in a single night, transported from place to place with every single Muslims she interacted with raping her.

    The digusting bitch who faciliated the Muslim rape took foster children from people who voted for Ukip:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11060102/Rotherham-the-council-leaders-who-presided-over-child-abuse-scandal.html

    I needn’t even talk about Europe.

    I also needn’t talk about how facile and ridiculous and pathetic is the comparison between Christianity and Islam.

    Christianity is one of the three pillars of the West. Islam is at war with the West. It always has been at war with the West.

    The fact that Jews and Muslims are now acting in alliance to destroy the West the same way they did in Spain, the same way they’ve done everywhere doesn’t mean the West should embrace Muslims.

    Islamaphobia itself as Christopher Hitchens stated was a very recent, made-up phrase invested by the Islamic bloc at the United Nations to replicate the effects of ‘anti-semitism’ – conflating again, race with religion and resistance with mental illness.

    We’ve already seen the plans of the Muslim brotherhood to encroach into the United States, and the Islamic Councils the same in Australia.

    This is a pretty disappointing article from the Saker.

    Yes, others are arugably worse, but this is a discussion of the virtues of cancer versus leprosy.

  177. @Carroll Price

    Spare us the warbling of the pathetic neo-atheists.

    This idiot idiocy is now only stated by idiots.

  178. L.K says:
    @Dmitry

    What is the relation to Russia? The author of this article (Saker) is an eccentric Swiss and Dutch man, who is an immigrant in America.

    The Saker is from Switzerland, had a Dutch father he is not in touch with(if memory serves) and his mother’s family is Russian, which is the part that you conveniently left out. He speaks the language and is proud of his Russian heritage.

    Never having lived in Russia – and one would have to live for years to be able to have an opinion that is minimally well informed – I cannot say if the Saker’s description of the Russian attitude towards its Muslim pop. is overly optimistic or not.
    It seems to be more or less accurate re the official position, that of the State, but less so in regards to how the avg Russian sees their Muslim compatriots.
    Judging from the extreme hostility from some self proclaimed “Russian” commentators on the Net, the Saker’s views in that regard may be unrealistic.

    How did Russia come to possess a large Muslim population though?
    It did it through Russian Imperialism , that’s how.
    Russia built the THIRD LARGEST Empire in History, ever.

    Now live with it.

  179. The problem with Islam is that it has become a universal religion, instead of staying an ethnic religious culture for Arabs, similar to Zoroastrianism & Judaism for its respective peoples. Islam is, in relation to the world, akin to traditional Judaism.

    It just cannot be reformed.

    Similar to Judaism, it places much emphasis on externals (food, clothing,..) & is, centrally, legalistic- shariah with its schools something like the Talmud – but it is, differently from Judaism, a proselytizing religion. Both religions & their adherents tend to create parallel societies, immured from the outer world.

    Jews have- and this is actually astonishing – ditched traditional Judaism in the 19th C, or perhaps 80-90%of them, whenever & wherever they could. Muslims, on the other hand, seem incapable either of ditching their old religious stuff, or reforming it to the point of unrecognizability.

    Islam is, most of it, like mega- traditional Judaism from ghetto.

  180. Seraphim says:
    @AnonStarter

    It is not unexpected that ‘the majority of Islamic Studies scholars, Muslim (mostly) and non-Muslim (few) alike’ regard ‘The Covenants of the Prophet Muhammad with the Christians of the World’ as authentic.
    But that does not make them authentic. In fact, they are forgeries with a clear agenda of presenting Islam as fundamentally ‘tolerant’, no matter who forged them, Christians or Muslims and no matter when they have been forged, most likely not before the 16th century (this is the same period when the ‘Gospel of Barnabas’ was forged). To believe that the “Ashtiname of Muhammad” for the monks of Sinai, which is a copy of a copy from a never produced ‘original’, has the imprint of the very hand of Muhammad on it is a ‘suspension of disbelief’.
    That ‘tolerance’ between conflicting socio-religious systems is a desideratum for making life bearable, it should not be based on fictions.

  181. This is definitely one of the Saker’s worst articles. It’s full of Jordan-Peterson tier statements.

    “Bottom line is this: it is PRECISELY because Islam and Christianity are completely incompatible theologically (and even mutually exclusive!) that there is no natural enmity between these two religions unless, of course, some Christian or Muslim decides that he has to use force to promote this religion”.

    Lol.

    This statement is so ridiculously ignorant of the entirety of history and contemporary events I can’t quite believe he’s said it.

    ‘No natural emnity’. Is the Saker joking? Zionism is bad. The Caliphate is bad.

    “So, now the question becomes: is there something profoundly incompatible between the real, traditional, Islam and the real, traditional, Christianity?”And we get ‘customs’ and ‘the death penalty’.

    Oh, how about Polygamy? The difference between monogamist and polygamist socio-sexual ordering is so profound, some scholars even ascribe it to being the sole reason for divergence in scientific and societal advancement between the Islamic and western worlds.

    That’s a pretty big difference, isn’t it?

    Or that the Islamic prohibition of Idolatry extends as far as realism – so in Islam art in a perverse reversal of western development, actually achieved surrealism prior to realism, and then never developed to realism.

    So in a Mosque there are only mosaics and tesselations – no realist imagery of the Sacred.

    That’s a pretty profound change – no statutes, no images, no anything of the Sacred. I mean, did Charlie Hebdo never happen?

    An Islamic West would entail the mass destruction of art on a level unseen perhaps ever – even the Great Library of Alexandria’s destruction wouldn’t equal it.

    Salman Rushdie talked about Islamic artists who first saw Vermeer and realised they couldn’t reproduce the technique.

    That’s a pretty big difference isn’t it?

    The nature of Allah also means there is no natural law within Islam – there is just the immutable, unchanging, and arbitrary word of Allah. Christianity on the other hand glories in the Natural Law.

    Thats also a pretty big difference, another one so profound it’s used by some as the basis for the divergence in technology between the West and Islamic East.

    I mean, is there something profoundly incompatible?

    Is there?

    • Agree: joannf
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  182. Ron Unz says:
    @RadicalCenter

    By calling Slavs sub-humans, the Nazis ensured that even people who truly hated living under communism would still fight to the last breath against nazi invaders.

    Is that really correct? I’m no great expert on Nazi ideology, but to me it sounds suspiciously like WWII propaganda, of which there exists a vast ocean. After all, Nazi Germany’s military allies included quite a few Slavic countries like Bulgaria, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia, and (sort of) Rumania, and during the mid/late-1930s, Hitler had made an effort to enlist Poland as well.

    Decades earlier, Bismarck had famously quipped that a Bavarian was a cross being a man and an Austrian, but I don’t think he actually regarded either Bavarians or Austrians as “sub-human”…

    • Replies: @utu
    , @L.K
    , @Plato's Dream
    , @st
    , @Avery
  183. AaronB says:
    @TKK

    You are unfortunately correct.

    In theory I don’t dislike Islam and even like some aspects of it, and I am sure it had some wonderful periods in history.

    So ‘academically’, I am not necessarily against. But the behavior of actual Muslims in the past 100 years or so is appalling.

    I attribute it to something having gone very, very wrong in Muslim culture and society. It is an extremely corrupt and vicious culture these days. It seems that every year some new shockingly monstrous phenomena emerges from that cultural milieu – ISIS, the Rotherham rapes, etc.

    And people need to understand that central to Islam is the need to dominate. I have hired Muslim workers who were simply incapable of showing me the proper deference and respect, and had to summarily fire them shortly after. It was truly absurd. They couldn’t work in the industry anymore.

    On the other hand, you know, Sufis in the past were a very interesting Muslim sect – but they say they were primarily Indian in inspiration, which I believe. But modern Sufis seem to have lost all spirituality and not to be so distinguishable from other Muslims. They seem just as interested in politics and conquest and the usual Muslim preoccupations as other Muslims.

    To some extent this kind of degeneration is affecting all religions now, so it isn’t unique to Islam. Its just that Islam seems particularly in a downward slope, with shockingly bad stuff coming to light each year.

    That’s why I laugh when some alt-righters say Islam might be an alternative. I am not sure Islam will survive as a religion into the future, the way its going.

  184. joannf says:
    @Anon

    You do not seem to know so well what actually happened at Waterloo – certain things didn’t work out as planned, in this case on the part of Napoleon. Grouchy played a major role in that. Do your research instead of mansneering at my argument.
    As to the Beresina, the Russians wanted to keep Napoleon from crossing and were damn sure they’d achieve their goal – but they did not. You do understand this ? He successfully managed to save his ass there, and a large part of his remaining army, but nah – it was a failure. Kutusov managed to save his ass at Borodino – and yeah, it was a victory ? C’mon. That’s not an intelligent approach.

    It doesn’t matter what imbecilic and undereducated French people think of it, these are the facts. Is English your third language ? I never said that General Castaños didn’t win the battle of Bailén, of course he did – but are you claiming that Napoleon was present there ?
    He was practically never present in Iberia, so his adversaries, markedly one Sepoy general by the name of Wellesley, had only to deal with his marshals, who weren’t remotely as creative as the great man himself, and who even failed at mundane tasks like the siege of Tarifa (the walls are medieval and ridiculous, I lived there for a year, in Calle Bailén).

    I’m sorry if I’m an exception – women are not supposed to understand military history, but unfortunately I do. The morbidity of the subject always fascinated me, how could they… and I thought it might help me understand men better. Well, in a way that worked. They love to think inside boxes.

    • Replies: @Anon
  185. @Smith

    I agree the Saker should let Muslims live with him. This article is one of the most naive I have ever read on Islam. The Muslims ruled the African Slave Trade for over 13 centuries. Most of the male slaves were castrated with low survival rates. The black females used in “concubines” or similar domains had their children killed. This is the main reason for few blacks groups outside of Africa. The Indian sub continent was pure Hell with massacres and burned cities.

    Islam will always have a trichotomy of extreme radicals, radicals and those who say they follow the peaceful route. They are beyond tribalistic and when they get a majority they suppress everyone else. Of course, the Saker left out their rapist and criminal tendencies in places they arrive in. He ignores the real world for his “Magic Generalized Muslim” individual.

    One of the most important things the Saker seems to miss is that they only have allegiance to their religion not to their country in most instances similar to the Magic Jews. So why don’t we have both the Jews and Islamists who hate our country and add the Magic We Wuz Kings and Queens Crowd to the mix? What could go wrong?….Just look around to what’s happening and imagine it getting worse!

    A simple evaluation of how long the Magic Muslims stay on welfare should deter anyone who can do math on what this means. I would say that the Muslims that I have met are more like the nutbag Somali American Ilhan Omar than the Saker’s “Magic Generalized Muslim.” If the Saker loves them so much he should go live with them in their backward countries. In fact, he should take some of them with him. It’s kind of amazing that everyone who hates our country from the blacks, illegals, Muslims, and so forth want to come here and then change it back to the cesspool they came from!

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  186. @Curmudgeon

    Check when lend lease started arriving in some numbers that might be considered a little bit serious to be judged as resupply. It happened after Kursk. Stalingrad and kursk decided the fate of the war. This means that whatever lend lease was it started arriving after the war outcome already was in the Soviet union favor. Also, lendlease constituted around 4% from what USSR was producing itself. Does not look like much. Lendlease main recipient was UK.

  187. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Unwanted Collaborators: Leon Kozlowski, Wladyslaw Studnicki, and the Problem of Collaboration among Polish Conservative Politicians in World War II
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13507480120074260

    “These two biographies highlight the nature of contacts between Polish conservatives and German authorities. Studnicki’s story demonstrates the futility of collaborationist initiatives in Poland due to Nazi indifference. ”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Władysław_Studnicki

    During the war Władysław Studnicki, whose pro-German stance was well known to German authorities, frequently intervened in support of arrested and executed Polish activists. Due to his efforts, Bolesław Piasecki, creator of National Radical Camp Falanga, was released from German prison.

    In most cases, however, Studnicki’s interventions did not help. As a result, in January 1940 he decided to issue a “Memo to the German Government”, in which he expressed his opposition to the policy of German occupational authorities, based on bloody terror. In his view, this stance would result in growing anti-German feelings among ethnic Poles, which would make it impossible to create an agreement between Poles and Germans, aimed at the Soviet Union.

    Furthermore, a few weeks after the Invasion of Poland, Studnicki presented to German military authorities the “Memo on Recreation of Polish Army and the Oncoming German – Soviet War”. In this document, he proposed recreation of Polish Army, which would fight the Red Army alongside the Wehrmacht. Furthermore, he suggested that a Polish Government should be recreated. To make this happen, German authorities should cease killings and repression of Polish activists. Polish Army, in cooperation with the Wehrmacht, was to seize the territories west of the Dniepr river, while Germans were to march further east, to the Caucasus.

    Both memos were confiscated by Germans. Desperate, Studnicki decided then to personally visit Berlin, and talk to Adolf Hitler. In late January 1940, he went to Berlin, and talked with Joseph Goebbels, but without any fruits. After the conversation, he was interned at Babelsberg, but was released following a plea of Hermann Göring. In August 1940 Studnicki returned to Warsaw. He remained in touch with German authorities, and his continuous pleas for better treatment of Poles resulted in his arrest on 10 July 1941. Studnicki remained in Pawiak Prison until August 1942, when he was released due to poor health and efforts of both Maurycy Stanisław Potocki and the Hungarian ambassador.

    In the final years of the war, Studnicki criticized both German terror and Polish resistance, whose activities resulted in German reprisals and sufferings of civilian population. In his opinion, the Soviet Union was the main enemy of Poland, and all Polish forces should concentrate their efforts on fighting the Soviets.

  188. @Lot

    You are full of shit. Napoleon grand army had total numerical superiority. Well, until napoleon lost all of his army.

    Hitler had total numerical superiority in the beginning and surprise on his side. Germans possessed numerical superiority on main directions right up to and including stalingrad. Even after that so called soviet massive superiority was only on decisive directions reached by clever maskirovka and maneuver concentrating massive forces on key directions thus making germans think Russian posed huge numbers. This could not have been because Herman’s occupied Soviet territory with almost 90 million population leaving USSR with only 100 million until 1943 to fight all of europe.

    The fact the germans failed to achieve victory is their problem.
    Home advantage? Well, you should not have come then there would have been no home advantage.

    • Replies: @L.K
  189. Dannyboy says:
    @WorkingClass

    You are absolutely correct, sir.

    Ignoring the well documented Muslim animus against Christians is just as ill advised as ignoring the Jew version. They have worked hand in glove before in an attempt to destroy European Christian Civilization, so this latest effort comes as no surprise.

    The Saker lives in Florida, IIRC. Why is he living here with all the “islamophobes” and racists instead of Mother Russia?…lol

    In the American South of all places. Shame on him.

  190. peterAUS says:

    From the not so long ago in Europe:

    Elfeta Veseli….was born in 1960 in Kosovo but lived in Bosnia at the beginning of the war, which claimed 100,000 lives.

    ……was arrested in the Swiss canton of Neuchatel in September and detained in Geneva pending extradition.

    Veseli had fought with Muslim-dominated forces….

    ….is suspected of killing a 12-year-old boy, Slobodan Stojanovic, in Zvornik, eastern Bosnia.

    The boy and his parents were fleeing from advancing Muslim forces when he returned for his dog and was never seen alive again.

    ……describing signs of torture and brutality on the child’s body.

    … His belly was slit in the shape of a square, so the internal organs were exposed … Lacerations to head … broken legs … shoot from close range right in the temple: the bullet passed the frontal left bone.

    BiH Court on Wednesday sentenced Elfeta Veseli to ten years in prison for the cruel murder of 12-year-old boy Slobodan Stojanović in 1992 near Zvornik.

    The indictment charges that Veseli murdered the boy in the most heinous way. She approached him from behind while he was on his bicycle and cut his throat with a knife.

    Keywords:
    Religion of Peace, Weaker Sex/Gender, Justice…stuff like that.

    Not important, of course. Just a little Serb somewhere in Balkans. Nothing to do with the growing number of Muslims in Europe.
    Pass the beer and keep the eye on the game on the big screen.
    All good.

  191. “So, now the question becomes: is there something profoundly incompatible between the real, traditional, Islam and the real, traditional, Christianity?

    I mean is there?

    What about the Christian injunction on cousin marriage, which is absent Islam.

    Muslims marry their cousins – Christian don’t marry their cousins.

    Cousin marriage – not cousin marriage.

    Is that a big difference? Well again, it’s only the difference between civilization and not-civilization.

    https://pjmedia.com/blog/the-problem-of-inbreeding-in-islam/

    In Britain 55% of the Pakistani community is married to their cousin. Not uncoincidentally, Pakistanis have a %1300 higher chance of recessive genetic mutations and disorders.

    What is the impact of that?

    “Look at Denmark, for example: one third of the budget for the country’s schools is spent on children with special needs. Muslim children are grossly overrepresented among these children. More than half of all children in schools for children with mental and physical handicaps in Copenhagen are foreigners — of whom Muslims are by far the largest group. One study concludes that “foreigners inbreeding costs our municipalities millions” because of the many handicapped children and adults.”

    I mean is the Saker a serious person or a nincompoop?

    So the difference between Islam and Christianity is literally genetic – whereby the theology means half of the entire Muslim world is inbred. As a result, westerners are forced to subsidise the retarded children and retarded adults of muslim inbreeding – as they dominate education budgets. So instead of money being dedicated to my children learning the Greeks and Romans or even the Jews, it goes to teaching Muslim kids who are in-bred phonics they can’t learn, with individual teacher’s aides they can’t write about.

    64% of Muslim immigrant children in Denmark are still illiterate after ten years of dedicated resourcing.

    That’s probably because most of them are the progeny of inbreeding.

    So we have yet another profound difference the consequences of which are civilization diverging.

    Oh, but gee, all I can think of as the Saker is the death penalty and random customs.

    The Saker has simply lost credibility with this idiot article.

    That is at least four differences so profound that each in it’s own right is enough to reject Islam. Taken altogether, and you can see why Pagan Larpers and Islamophiles are some of the least serious intellectuals in the world.

    I wont’ even canvass the difference between Islamic fatalism and Christian Divine Providence and freedom of choice, and the huge differences that makes to a soceity in terms of agency, nihilism, and enterprise.

    Just ridiculous.

    This has to be one of the worst articles on the Unz Review.

    The Saker should marry his cousin, produce cretin children who can’t read, destroy all the realistic art he can find, become reductionist such that all events are ‘Allah’s will’, Marry in fact three of his cousins and triple the genetic problems, and not use any kind of technology which is the result of a belief in the natural law.

    Pathetic.

    The fact that the globalist and Zionist Jews who weave the world are cancer doesn’t mean Islam isn’t leprosy.

    • Replies: @TKK
  192. A “Phobia” is an irrational fear.

    You failed to make the case that fear of Islam is irrational.

  193. L.K says:
    @Ron Unz

    It’s largely propaganda.

    Check Nigel Endeavour’s post #760( at the bottom of the post which is long but very good ) under
    http://www.unz.com/article/evidence-for-the-german-euthanasia-program-compared-to-the-holocaust

  194. L.K says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Your post is a joke, as usual.
    Between the Baltic und Black Seas, the Wehrmacht possessed 148 divisions of all types, included rear security units and HQ reserves.
    The initial strike force was made up of only 120 div., 3.580 tanks and assault guns, less than 2.100 operational aircraft.
    Facing them, in the Soviet Western military districts, the 1º strategic echelon had 170 divisions plus brigades, increasingly supported by the deploying 2º strategic echelon with 80 divisions.
    They had 15.000 tanks, 34.700 artillery pieces and some 9.000 operational aircraft.
    Given that the German units were larger and that not all of the Soviet units had been fully manned when Barbarossa began, the Germans had initially only a parity in manpower and numerical inferiority in all other major items
    .
    Source: Various, see Die Militärstrategie Deutschlands 1940-45: Führungsentschlüsse, Hintergründe, Alternativen by Heinz Magenheimer, 2002

    The Lend-Lease program was VITAL for the Soviets to keep fighting and this has been demonstrated by many Russian historians after the fall of the S.U.
    Marshal Zhukov recognized this as far back as the early 1960s and new research by Russian historians have confirmed it:

    “…Today(1963) some say the Allies did not help us…
    But, listen, one cannot deny that the Americans shipped over to us material without which we could not have equipped our armies held in reserve or been able to continue the war…
    We did not have enough munitions, how would we have been able to turn out all those tanks without the rolled steel sent to us by the Americans? To believe what they say [in the U.S.S.R.] today,
    you’d think we had all this in abundance!””

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  195. peterAUS says:
    @niteranger

    Spot on.

    Emphasize on

    It’s kind of amazing that everyone who hates our country from the blacks, illegals, Muslims, and so forth want to come here and then change it back to the cesspool they came from!

    Especially the latter.

    But, to be honest, it’s even more amazing that a lot of “locals’ have no problem with that.
    And, looking at the author Western fanboys, even advocate that stuff.

    People, a?

  196. Cyrano says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I think the main reason why the Red Army won over the germans was their superior tactic. While the Germans were famous for the blitzkrieg, the Russians employed even more effective tactic – schlitzkrieg.

    https://www.dict.cc/german-english/Schlitz.html

  197. TKK says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Yes- I understand.

    It’s repellent degeneracy at both ends. Dressing little boys as girls, pronoun edicts that result in job loss, Bruce Jenner being named Woman of the Year with his linebacker shoulders.

    Yeats:

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    It’s an interesting thought exercise- if there were not checks and balances, and a fragile rule of law: how far would the woke left emulate Ramzan if they could?

  198. This author writes classic Disinformatzia.
    From the very beginning Islam was spread by the sword. In India alone, Islam spent centuries killing Hindus in a murderous campaign of attempted forced conversion. It is likely that millions upon millions were killed in India alone by the Mughals.

    This author is a liar.

  199. TKK says:
    @Flint Clint

    Genius.

    The Saker should marry his cousin, produce cretin children who can’t read, destroy all the realistic art he can find, become reductionist such that all events are ‘Allah’s will’, Marry in fact three of his cousins and triple the genetic problems, and not use any kind of technology which is the result of a belief in the natural law.

    Hilarious.

    I don’t think most Westerners realize that all artistic rendering are verboten- not just Mohammad. No art adorns the walls of Muslim homes. You can’t give coloring books and crayons to little Muslim kids.

    Its a brutal yoke to bear- to be on the receiving end of the mufti’s whims.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  200. Johan says:

    “the very same circles which denounce Islamophobia are also the ones which oppose all manifestations of real traditional Islam”

    In different media, so the politicized puppets are kept in useful opposition to each other.

  201. @Gall

    Absolute bs.
    The vast majority of Aboriginals in the Western Hemisphere died from a lack of resistance to Eurasian pathogens. As in > 90%.
    Very few Natives were killed by Europeans directly and the ones that were killed were predominantly killed in wars in which the participants were equally matched. Bear in mind that Aboriginals practised a type of ruthless warfare unfamiliar to Europeans that included torture and cannibalism.

    These lies are more Cultural Marxist ammunition used to denigrate and attack European diaspora communities worldwide.
    Go read up on a real genocide: The Mughal slaughter of Hindus over centuries. Over 10 million. Probably more. I’m not as versed in that area of history.
    Don’t cite a fake, made up genocide. There was no genocide in the Western Hemisphere between 1492 and 1992; just disease (90%) and war (10%).
    Again, take your Marxist lies and shove them where the sun don’t shine you POS liar.

  202. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @joannf

    I suppose that even when Napoleon was not present in the battles of his armies he , the great man , would send his spirit to hover over his troops , to inspire his generals . He sure did hover over Bailen , over Dupont , and probably over calle Bailèn when you lived there , ( of Madrid ? , there are calles Bailen all over Spain ) .

    Napoleon was one of the biggest evils of the history of mankind , he invaded all Europe , a corrupt criminal who made kings all the members of his family . Napoleon killed millions of europeans , was a destroyer of european civilization , of art , history , sacked everything , parece que usted le tiene mas devociòn que el propio profesor Sokolov . Shame on napoleonic France and her allies .

    Napoleon invaded Russia with an army of more than 700.000 soldiers , french and polack , german , italian etc. allies . Only 50.000 came back . Quelle Berezina !!

    And Napoleon during the invasion and war of Spain and Portugal ( 1808 -1814 ) sent to the Iberian Peninsula more than 600.00 soldiers , of which about 500.000 were killed in action , but they killed about 500.000 spanish , military and civilians , and destroyed the Peninsula . Quelle Berezina for France and for Spain and Portugal !!

    It is a shame for France to keep the remnants of the monster in Les Invalides , and to inscribe the napoleonic ” victories ” in the Arc du Triomphe ( some of the ” victories ” were in fact defeats )

    Con todo el respeto a su talento militar , señora , saludos .

    • Replies: @joannf
  203. @Talha

    /But this example is not really a good one since the outliers – or minority opinions – are still considered within the normative range./

    Alhamdulillah, you consider them as such. Others, however, predicate dismissal of the only accurate rendering of the verse by appealing to the doctrine of consensus, implying that the “outlier” should be summarily dismissed.

    It needn’t be directly expressed as such. It’s merely a consequence of the manner in which said “consensus” is formed.

    And such dismissal bears terrible consequences. It’s hardly a trifling matter.

    /We have consensus on things like; fasting during Ramadan, 5 prayers within a day, homosexuality is immoral, etc./

    Certainly. I’m quite pleased that my brothers-in-faith stand strong against sodomy and similar perversions.

    /Your example is a bit like the example of how the majority opinion is that the son that was supposed to be sacrificed by Ibrahim (as) was Ismael (as), while the minority opinion that is was Ishaac (as) also exists. The existence of minority opinions does not negate consensus. The consensus in this example would be that it wasn’t a third unnamed son./

    Well, the analogy isn’t entirely accurate, since there isn’t anything inherent in the grammar of the ayat referencing the event of sacrifice that would settle the matter once and for all, whereas in 4: 157, the grammar compels us to reject out of hand the haddith. The phrase must read “it was made doubtful/dubious to them.” It cannot be otherwise.

    It’s a good example of inherited dogma superseding text as a result of respectful acquiescence to the opinions of our great forefathers. The intention may be good, but in this particular case, the effect is corrosive, and I cannot imagine those same forefathers would expect us to settle upon any one of their opinions when and where it is proven to be erroneous.

    /The question that comes to my mind is; do I trust the scholars who were closer to the time of the Prophet (pbuh) in their conclusions or somebody coming today that is mired in a world in which Muslims have lost their confidence and surrounded by post-modern presuppositions?/

    It’s a valid question, but we’re informed by the Prophet himself sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam that the ‘ulama are his inheritors and that God will send one to revive the religion in every generation.

    Some cite Surat al-‘Asr as well as the haddith that speaks of the corruption that increases with every passing age as an argument for strict adherence to the opinions of past masters. I have no problem with the general principle of it, though it’s also worth mentioning the numerous verses of The Qur’an that serve to admonish us against following tradition simply because it is what we found our fathers doing.

    Yes, I know that some think this applies solely to traditions outside the Muslim world, but it is, in fact, a reminder for all: where inherited tradition (be it practice or perspective) is proven wrong, adherence to truth demands its abandonment.

    /The ruling is not based on Qur’an – it is based on solid hadith./

    The inclusion in the Sahiheyn of a haddith upon which legal prescription is predicated does not obviate a challenge to the probity thereof where a preponderance of evidence requires it. In the matter of prescribing lapidation for adulterers, we have such evidence that cannot be rationalized as a matter subordinate to the mere existence of the haddith.

    We have a similar situation where the alleged age of ‘Aisha is concerned:

    https://yaqeeninstitute.org/arnold-yasin-mol/aisha-ra-the-case-for-an-older-age-in-sunni-hadith-scholarship/

    /I don’t know of any school that says it is based on an unverified verse from a proto-Qur’an./

    https://abuaminaelias.com/was-the-stoning-verse-abrogated/

    /Thus, I am willing to abide by my speech being restricted by the majority if they decide to do so./

    Well, we wouldn’t have much of a choice now, would we?

    Your examples don’t really concern the First Amendment because they’re all criminal offenses that have nothing to do with religious liberty or freedom of expression per se. Back in the tumultuous sixties, the US Supreme Court ruled that American flags can be burned without legal punishment — surely an offensive gesture to many citizens, yet protected by law nonetheless. But threatening the life of the president? Not so.

    Same with yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater. There are some exceptions, all of which touch upon actual — as opposed to imaginary — threats to public safety.

    /… I’m not talking about forcing conversions or anything. I’m talking about restricting public blasphemy, mockery and denigration of God./

    Yes, but by imposing said restrictions, you are compelling a type of conversion, albeit piecemeal. It’s undeniably a religiously-premised law and, as such, those forced to obey it are forced, in part, to practice religion.

    In Europe, you can’t claim that less than six million Jews died. David Irving, a punctilious WWII historian — among others — was imprisoned because he didn’t obey the law. Outlandish, isn’t it?

    Yet this is precisely what we encourage by seeking to pass blasphemy laws. Zionists are at the forefront of a mission to make us all good little golems, and, unfortunately, they’re successfully exploiting Muslims in an effort to gain traction.

    Those laws are Isra’iliyyat. They certainly have no place among us.

    was-salaam.

  204. KenH says:

    Bottom line is this: it is PRECISELY because Islam and Christianity are completely incompatible theologically (and even mutually exclusive!) that there is no natural enmity between these two religions unless, of course, some Christian or Muslim decides that he has to use force to promote this religion.

    You could say that also about Islam and Buddhism and Islam and Hinduism, too. Yet adherents of both religions fight like cowboys and Indians. The Afghan Mujahideen destroyed Buddhist temples and idols.

    Regarding forced conversions, Muslims and Islamophiles always have to reach deep into the past to come up with dark chapters in Christian history. Christians haven’t forcibly converted anyone for several hundred years. Even during the Christian crusades attempts at forcibly converting Muslims were usually half hearted and on a small scale with mixed results.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  205. @TKK

    Exactly – no realistic art.

    And think about how a cult against realism impacts all of the disciplines and even paradigms that rely on realism.

    The other howler is that in Orthodox traditional Islam music is Haram.

    Not just music that contains immoral content etc. Music itself: http://www.beautifulislam.net/halalharam/music.htm

    There seems to be some debate over particular instruments mentioned in the scripture, or even an attempt to pretend the theology supports a Christian view of hierachies of music based on their content and the states they elicit, but that’s just make-believe and wishful thinking.

    They have a point about almost all popular music today, but still.

    So:

    Christianity: Music
    Islam: No music.

    That’s also somewhat of a difference isn’t it Saker.

    No wonder the Cabal wants Islam as the mode of thought.

    In some respects, Islam is even more retarding of the human spirit then Paganism.

    Imagine a world with no Bach, and no realistic images of the human form.

    Now we see why Christianity is one of the three pillars of the West.

    Music
    Realism
    Natural Law
    No Cousin Marriage
    Monogamy
    Free-will

    These are all quite radical differences from Islam.

    You can see why if you have the opposite of absence of these things you have an inferior and debased society.

    It’s ridiculous that we now have to fight for these ideas to even exist and you have to spend forever learning all of history and finding the true material to explain why they’re important to solipsists.

    • Agree: Sbaker
  206. @Kevin Barrett

    I’m guessing from your name you are a Diaspora European in North America or a European in Europe.
    My ancestors migrated to Quebec over 300 years ago. I don’t want any Cultural Enrichment. I want my own culture, language(s) and religion.. No Islam. No Talmudic Judaism. Zero immigration. Expulsion of any immigrants currently here. Without a referendum their presence here is invalid and they must leave.
    I have a right to the fruits of my labor and my ancestors labor. We built it. It is ours. We came her over 300 years ago and carved it out of the wilderness. There was no intent to give anyone here, the Aboriginals, infectious diseases. We didn’t genocide anyone.

    Again. I don’t want Islam. It is a foreign religion. Barbaric. Not one word about loving your neighbour have I ever heard from any Muslim.
    Whose side are you on Mr. GoodWhite? Do I and my people have any rights anymore? Or are the Rights of Man now for EVERYONE but Europeans?

    • Replies: @bikeanarkist
  207. Anon[542] • Disclaimer says:

    My initial idea was to begin with a definition of “Islamophobia” but after looking around for various definitions, I decided to use my own, very primitive definition. I will define Islamophobia as the belief that Islam (the religion) and/or Muslims (the adherents to this religion) represent some kind of more or less coherent whole which is a threat to the West.

    This ignores the disastrous effect that Islamic armies, which only Islam made possible, have had on the genetics / demographics of entire regions of the West (Anatolia, the Iberian Peninsula, Iran, more to come), let alone on historic and modern political control of those regions.

    This ignores that Islam is a very obvious zombie program of Judaism, with the same imperial, apocalyptic goals that that the West in their sights for eventual destruction. To know anything significant about the pseudo-theologies of both Judaism and Islam is to know this fact. One shouldn’t comment without knowing the stated goals of Judaism and Islam, and if one knows those goals then one would not defend Islam to the West except as an innately hostile Muslim or a Jew.

    This ignores that after the long history of Islamic wars with the West, and a long history of Islamic terrorism, that anyone even sincerely evoking the term “Islamaphobia” is not only objectively a joke in terms of being a supposed consultant to the interests of Western peoples but an enemy.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  208. KenH says:

    Saker’s efforts are almost like the Jewish media’s efforts, starting in the 1960’s, to mainstream and sell the American negro to the white population as an equal. How’s that worked out for whitey and America?

    IMO, Saker wants Westerners to defy their common sense and gut instincts about Muslims. Again, just like the media successfully got whites to do with regard to American negroes. Saker is allegedly half Jewish so we should probably consider the source and perhaps assume his motives aren’t the purest in this regard.

    At the end of the day Western nations can accept or reject Muslims for any reason or no reason. It doesn’t take much research or thought to see that the mass influx of Muslims into the U.K. and Europe has been a source of tension, conflict and violence that heretofore did not exist. Muslims have created no-go zones in many areas of both the U.K. and Europe. This means whites enter at their own risk.

    As in America, increasing areas are off limits to the people who founded and built those nations. Until majorities find this unacceptable and are willing to correct this state of affairs by any and all means necessary then things will continue to ger worse.

    The term Islamophobia was designed to suppress debate on the core tenants of Islam and Muslims in the West and tar the inquisitor as an ignorant bigot.

    Muslims have the right to live in their own nations in peace unmolested by U.S. military power and drone attacks. But they don’t have the right to settle in Western nations legally or as refugees en masse, demand free stuff and special privileges, create parallel societies and attack the natives when the urge strikes them.

    Muslim nations won’t dare allow masses of whites and Christians to settle in their nations, but we get mercilessly guilt tripped if we oppose them entering our nations.

    • Agree: joannf
  209. Seraphim says:
    @Flint Clint

    You correctly pointed out the Iconoclasm of Islam, a point that the Saker totally overlooks, although the veneration of icons is so central to Orthodoxy (very much with Russians, so much so that it would make them ‘archidolaters’ in the eyes of even the most benevolent ‘moderate’ Muslim).
    You are absolutely right in respect to Natural Law which derives from the Tri-Une nature of God. The Logos, the second hypostasis of God, is the ‘creator’ of ‘Nature’ and therefore its laws. And it is precisely because “Islam and Christianity are completely incompatible theologically (and even mutually exclusive!)” that there is natural enmity between the two religions and their attendant ‘philosophies’ and ‘civilizations’. There is indeed a ‘Clash of Civilizations’ and we would gain nothing by shoving it under the carpet in the name of ‘tolerance’, ‘diversity’ or political expediency, be it in Russia or in Syria.
    We are at a loss to understand the reason why he wrote this piece where, in ‘politically correct’ fashion cannot refrain to affirm that ‘we will soon find out that the Christian Roman Empire also used the sword on many occasions’, ‘Orthodox rulers have, on occasion, resorted to forceful conversions and mass murder of others’, ‘we notice that Christians also did not always spread their faith by love and compassion, especially once Christian rulers came to power in powerful empires or nations’, typical Muslim ‘arguments’. At least he doesn’t bring in the ‘Crusaders’.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  210. Ron Unz needs to jettison this moron . Let the Catholic haters over at Russian insider publish his jibberish.

  211. @Carroll Price

    Rubbish.
    Germanic tribes were regularly converting in the 3rd century. Not only was Roman culture viewed as desirable and worthy of respect and imitation but so was it’s religions. Christianity included. The spread of Christianity was helped a great deal by the State ceasing to push the loyalty issue (demanding that Christians sacrifice to the Emperor). Constantine was critical in this and in harnessing the power of a religion to unify the Empire.
    This perception of Christianity being spread by the sword is absurd. It was spread as most religions have been. Within a geo-political enitity: the Roman Empire and it’s borderlands.
    Islam on the other hand was very much spread by the sword. Within a few centuries it had spread from Spain to Afghanistan. All by the sword.

  212. @Anon

    Islam is a coherent threat to the West, as you say like the Judaism it plagiarised and is symbiotic with.

    https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/09/american-jewish-committee-jews-and-muslims-are-natural-allies-in-the-us-to-fight-bigotry-against-both-groups

    After all, Jews and Muslims are natural allies.

    Here is the Huffington Post:

    “The American Muslim Poll 2019, a research project from the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding (ISPU), suggests that American Jews and Muslims have much more in common than is often assumed… They tend to vote for Democrats, and they are more likely to be educated and urban. All these factors increase their chances of meeting. And the ISPU study suggests that once American Jews and Muslims meet each other, they become more than just acquaintances ― they become close friends and allies. ”

    Jews and Muslims are close friends and allies – both want to destroy the West and erect their own debased civilizations atop it’s wreckage.

    And if certain personages are right and we’ve been living in a Phoenecian/Jewish world order now for centuries, it was still only thus in certain stratas.

    So to see why and how Islam is a threat to ‘the west’ Islam would destroy all of the below western concepts which are either Christian or reached their pinnacle within Christendom.

    Music
    Realism
    Natural Law
    No Cousin Marriage
    Monogamy
    Free-will

    Which are what make the West the West.

    So to be ‘IsLaMoPHobIC’ is to be in favour of music, realism, natural law, against cousin marriage, and in favour of monogamy and free-will.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  213. @KenH

    / The Afghan Mujahideen destroyed Buddhist temples and idols./

    The Taliban dynamited a statue of a Buddha that the British, during their occupation of Afghanistan, had used as target practice.

    Truth is, the Taliban did so as a reaction to the UN’s neglect of starving Afghanis, not as a religious imperative:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/19/world/taliban-explains-buddha-demolition.html

    At the time the foreign delegation visited, United Nations relief officials were warning that a long drought and a harsh winter were confronting up to a million Afghans with starvation. Mr. Rahmatullah said that when the visitors offered money to repair and maintain the statues, the Taliban’s mullahs were outraged.

    ”The scholars told them that instead of spending money on statues, why didn’t they help our children who are dying of malnutrition? They rejected that, saying, ‘This money is only for statues.’ ”

    ”The scholars were so angry,” he continued. ”They said, ‘If you are destroying our future with economic sanctions, you can’t care about our heritage.’ And so they decided that these statues must be destroyed.” The Taliban’s Supreme Court confirmed the edict.

    ”If we had wanted to destroy those statues, we could have done it three years ago,” Mr. Rahmatullah said. ”So why didn’t we? In our religion, if anything is harmless, we just leave it. If money is going to statues while children are dying of malnutrition next door, then that makes it harmful, and we destroy it.”

    • Replies: @KenH
  214. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:

    Just sophomoric whataboutism. “Islam” is presently a mechanism for exporting the young male progeny of cousin marriages to the ripe infidel lands, and more than ready to ramp up the conveyor belt too. You sound like Hispanomanic Karl Rove but dimmer.

  215. APilgrim says:

    I look forward to Saker extolling rattlesnake virtue.

    Those who exercise caution can be branded as Pit-Viper-Phobics (PVPhobics).

    Saker can then break these PVPhobics into a dozen subcategories.

  216. Talha says:

    This perception of Christianity being spread by the sword is absurd.

    Not really:
    “ This issue, more than any other we’ve published, raises the awkward matter of forced conversions—”Be Christian or die.” There’s no sense in pretending this was an exceptional missionary tactic; for many centuries, it was the method of choice among Christian rulers and missionaries. The conversion of much of Europe and of Latin America is unimaginable without the sword.”
    https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/interview-converting-by-the-sword

    Plenty of military history has been written on it also:
    “Increasingly, however, Eastern Europe and the last remaining bastions of pagan Europe became the targets of their religious zeal. The era officially began in 1147, when the Saxons, Danes, and Poles, responding to Pope Eugene III’s call, initiated a crusade against the Wends of the Southern Baltic. This was followed by crusades against the Livonians, Estonians, Finns, Prussians, and Lithuanians.”
    https://www.amazon.com/Scandinavian-Baltic-Crusades-1100-1500-Men-at-Arms/dp/1841769886

    Peace.

  217. DanFromCT says:
    @Talha

    I believe Islam is inimical to post-Christian Western culture, meaning the continued existence of one entails the extinction of the other, but not necessarily by the sword. Not everywhere on this planet, of course, but everywhere they’re forced to coexist.

    I agree with you that the West has become morally depraved in the areas you mention. What doesn’t surprise me, however, is the intemperate and condescending response from you because of your beliefs. At least your artwork is playful, but I don’t need your input regarding the stunning brilliance of Islamic scholarship and art.

    For what it’s worth, there’s probably been no one more consistently outspoken than I’ve been in defense of God’s innocent children in Muslim lands who’re being massacred in the Middle East, and for going on thirty years now. And I’ll defend Muslims anytime and anywhere against anyone claiming they were responsible for 9/11, and against such mendacious lies as they hate us for our freedoms. As Wendell Berry put it right after 9/11, don’t dare kill one Muslim child and come tell me you did it to protect me and my children.

    Peace, Talha.

    • Replies: @Talha
  218. @Seraphim

    He must be referring to the Crusades.

    Robert (not Richard) Spencer has eviscerated that myth. I don’t care if he’s crypto-Jewish, that material is very well sourced.

    The defensive Crusades had a financial genesis, but compared to the scale of Islamic conquest they were incredibly lenient and underwhelming .

    The mass conversion from Paganism to Christianity wasn’t by the sword. It was because the Roman subjects rejected paganism spirtually and intellectually.

    The Cambridge Medieval History Vol. I, pp 362-363 talks about how the Roman Emperor Julian tried to reinstitute Paganism on what he thought was a willing people. This was the result:

    “When pest and famine had desolated the Roman East in Maximia’s days, the helpfulness and liberality of Christians towards the starving and the plague-stricken had forced men to confess that true piety and religion had made their home with the persecuted heretics: it was Julian’s will that Paganism should boast its public charity and that an all-embracing service of humanity should be reasserted as a vital part of the ancient creed. If only the worshippers of the gods of Hellas were once quickened with a spiritual enthusiasm, the lost ground would be recovered. It was indeed to this call that Paganism could not respond. There were men who clung to the old belief, but theirs was no longer a victorious faith, for the fire had died upon the altar. Resignation to Christian intolerance was bitter, but the passion which inspires martyrs was nowhere to be found. Julian made converts — the Christian writers mournfully testify to their numbers —but he made them by imperial gold, by promises of advancement or fear of dismissal”.

    That was in 361-363 AD.

    So there was no systematic murder of Pagans by the Christian Romans – there didn’t need to be. And there certainly was no wholesale ‘forceful’ Roman conversion. If that was the case, those benighted and oppressed Christian victims would have welcomed the return of Hellenic paganism with open arms, not completely ignored it unless bribed.

    Paganism had simply run it’s course, as Chesterton observed in ‘The Everlasting Man’ and so many others.

    Ridiculous.

    As for the West’s relationship with Islam, it was characterised by Apocalyptic Islamic conquest of Christendom from when Mohammad first appeared in 622AD all the way up until the battle of Lepanto in 1571 which saved the whole of Europe. And then again at the siege of Vienna, in 1683.

    Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Hippo, Tunis, Carthage these were all Christian capitals, conquered by the Muslims and put to the sword. Saker the faggot knows this, so presumably he is lying.

    The Hagia Sophia was Christian. Constantinople, Christian. All Christian.

    If there is one thing I hate, it’s when cockheads say ‘Christians committed mass murder equal to or worse then the Muslims’. No they effing didn’t, and they would have been absolutely justified if they had. Imagine being a Russian Muslim-phile, when his Slavic brothers in the Balkans were horse-traded by the Muslims for over a thousand years.

    That is a monumental lie of epic proportions.

    The Saker can write ridiculous articles that say there is no difference between opposites like polygamy and monogamy if he wants to, that make him a laughing stock.

    He doesn’t get to repeat lies that are even more egregious coming from him then say, Mary Beard, she of the ‘Elizabeth the 1st was really a Muslim’ and ‘The Romans were muslim’ and ‘Achilles was Muslim’ and ‘Anglo-Saxons were Muslim fame.

    Pathetic.

    Saker you’re a faggot.

  219. cecil2 says:

    Duplicitous claptrap that misses REAL issues.

    The authur conveniently forgets…… not all ‘Islamophobes’ are the same.

    They’re individuals who should not be subject to such hateful argumentation.

    Taqiyya in action.

  220. @Carroll Price

    You’re not entitled to your own facts. Islam “may or may not” have been spread by the sword? Do we not have any evidence on that score?

    The second part of your sentence seems more plausible.

  221. @Flint Clint

    Agree with some of what you say, but can we honestly claim that Christianity was not spread by the sword in Mexico and Latin America?

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  222. bjondo says:

    What does “spreading by the sword” mean?
    Convert or die?

    Or

    some conquered peoples choosing
    to convert for benefits?

    5ds

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  223. Seraphim says:
    @Flint Clint

    Interesting. When and where Mary Beard uttered those unbelievable non-senses? Although she might not be totally wrong about Elizabeth the 1st!Similarities between Protestantism and Islam are striking.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  224. bjondo says:

    Never bothered to read Robert Spencer.

    Listened to him many years ago on C-Span.
    Thought he was a weak propagandist,
    though not mentioned, Jew.

    Maybe a male version of Pam Gellar.

    https://www.stanforddaily.com/2017/11/09/lets-talk-about-robert-spencer/

    5ds

  225. Pegasus says:
    @Lot

    Please name a single major Catholic organization out of thousands that opposes mass migration to the USA.

    Catholic organizations? have zero, or even negative political power and barely any funds. On the other hand, Jewish orgs… well. They couldn’t fundraise and lobby their way out of a paper bag or could they?

    The reality is Jews are leaders at stopping the third world migration.

    Aahhh the reality on Planet Hasbara…

    Jews gonna jew, because you know… Never Again. Remember the Reconstructed Gas Chambers with batwing doors and those mountains of Grandpa’s Soap and Posh Lampshades… uh and the Boiling Geysers of Blood! oy vey!

  226. @Seraphim

    I’ll see if I can find archives of the egregious stuff she took down.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/mary-beard-roman-britain-bbc-schools-cartoon-ethically-diverse-black-white-a7879991.html

    But here she said that a black family presented on the BBC was ‘typical’ of Roman Britain, and she didn’t like being called out for it.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  227. Talha says:
    @DanFromCT

    Islam is inimical to post-Christian Western culture, meaning the continued existence of one entails the extinction of the other

    Post-Christian Western culture needs no help in making itself go extinct; it’s doing a stunning job on its own. Often in celebration:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/i-love-my-child-free-life-why-do-other-people-ncna1044866

    the West has become morally depraved in the areas you mention.

    And yet, by forwarding secular humanism as a solution, you have no way to stem the tide. I’ve conversed with plenty of ex-Muslims (some of the more famous ones too). The vast majority of them go hyper-Poz and pro-degeneracy and all of them defend it with secular humanism.

    What doesn’t surprise me, however, is the intemperate and condescending response from you

    It shouldn’t surprise anyone who read your initial reply to me; I suggest if you’re going to dish it out, you should learn how to take it. If you’ve ever been in a sparring environment, it’s called a glass jaw. I’m a very cordial and civil guy – but I can give (within limits) as good as I get.

    I don’t need your input regarding the stunning brilliance of Islamic scholarship and art.

    Dismiss it at your leisure; won’t make it go away.

    I’ve been in defense of God’s innocent children in Muslim lands who’re being massacred in the Middle East

    I appreciate that. And I’ve been on record denouncing the horrible things that certain Muslims do in the West; like terrorism, predation on young women, living like parasites on welfare, etc. I’ve also been on record as being completely fine with Western countries closing their borders. I have as much to do with the stupidity and violence of Muslims in the West as you do with the stupidity and violence of non-Muslims upon Muslims.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DanFromCT
  228. geokat62 says:
    @Lot

    The reality is Jews are leaders at stopping the third world migration.

    LOL. Almost spat out my feta reading that one!

    • LOL: Talha
  229. @RadicalCenter

    Probably fair.

    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/29455

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/largest-child-sacrifice-graveyard-strikes-huge-blow-to-native-american-innocence-myth/

    But Christianity was a major advance on literal not metaphysical human sacrifice and cannibalism.

    As always, Mel Gibson was right (Apocalypto got panned for being inaccurate and racist for it’s depictions of human sacrifice, when it looks like it may have been understated).

    https://www.npr.org/2019/11/10/777220132/500-years-later-the-spanish-conquest-of-mexico-is-still-being-debated

    I mean you’re timely – here is this NPR piece from today.

    Basically it boils down to ‘Human sacrifice makes perfect sense to us, was removing it really a good thing?’

    “the Aztecs had deep, complex rituals around death. Aztecs believed their gods needed nourishment to survive and made them offerings of people and animals. For example, offering warriors — primarily prisoners of war — ensured the sun would continue to shine and the Aztecs would be successful in war.”

    Hahaha as long as your human sacrifice is deep and complex, and you believe your Gods need nourishment – it’s just a harmless native custom, and those bigoted Christian Nazis are just imposing white values on brown folk, who sure love their human sacrifice.

    Of course the Aztecs were noble in their human sacrifice – I wonder what happened to those 550 kids CPS ‘LOST’ last year? https://truepundit.com/gop-senator-drops-bomb-foster-kids-are-being-sold-into-sex-slavery/

    Senator Farnsworth thinks he knows – I wonder if he’ll survive without being suicided like Epstein? People sacrificing children etc are going to find a lot to love in Native-American paganism.

    The thing people never talk about is that the reason the Conquistadors took the Americas was because they were joined by native tribes who hated the Aztecs because the Aztecs were genociding them, and they joined the Spanish.

    500 people even if they had Arquebuses and horses couldn’t conquer millions – unless they were getting help from hundreds of thousands.

    Christianity was a civilizing ideology for the Mexica and various native Americans.

    Of course, I acknowledge the Spanish did some terrible things – in Bolivia they ran very hard labour at Cerro Rico – the Mountain of Silver from memory I think is now Mount Potoc. That’s bad.

    But even that was arugably less worse then the slavery of the Incans’ and Aztecs.

    Jared Diamond argued that they were cannibals because by the time they were sophisticated enough to domesticate large animals they had all been culled – because they were noble environmentalists and conservationists you see.

    Imagine how savage they’d be if they weren’t Catholic. Don’t see too much of that on the border.

    You know what’s hilarious? These uber Liberals at NPR can’t condemn human sacrifice because than they’d have to condemn abortion. It’s not just that if Brown people do things it’s always good.

    These arguments are always used to say that white people need to be eradicated. Lol, maybe the person saying that could show their sincere commitment to being LatinX by allowing themselves to be human sacrificed to Moloch for the rain.

    The Aztec Gods were just the same demons of Carthage with different names.

    Jesus brought a sword against all.

  230. Avianthro says:

    https://quran.com/2/62?translations=18,84,85,21,22,95,101

    Islam embraces people of all faiths. Judaism clearly does not: Jewish prophets call the Jews “God’s chosen people” (strictly-speaking, a race, genetically-unique with a common ancestor, Abraham) . Christianity and Islam both do not see race as a determinant of one’s favor/disfavor with God. Unfortunately, Christianity, more correctly Paul’s erroneous version thereof (Read Nietzsche’s “Antichrist and Zuesse’s “Christ’s Ventriloquists”, makes faith in Jesus as the very Son of God an absolute requisite. Islam sees belief in Jesus’ divinity as more of a forgivable intellectual error than as a damnable heresy. (By the way, true Christianity, the original version from Jesus, is actually almost indistinguishable from Buddhism.)

    It was Jews who called for Jesus to be crucified.

    Jews and Muslims both reject Jesus as the Messiah and as the Son of God, but Islam definitely recognizes and deeply respects Jesus as a prophet.

    So, all things considered, which groups should be closer in light of their historical behavior and theological viewpoints?

    The Saker is absolutely right: Islam itself is no enemy of America, but the Zionists (Jews who believe they have the divine right to rule the land of Israel and beyond) are the true threat to America and American principles of freedom of religion and democracy. It’s also true that some Islamists, who have all-too-humanly twisted the Quran to support their own hidden power agendas are a threat to America but their power is exceedingly weak compared to the Zionists.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @AaronB
  231. Paw says:
    @joannf

    Right . Napoleon owned the whole Europe. He was in Poland and experienced there ,terrible winter .
    No need to run further.. Went mad?
    II.world war. I believe, Stalin /the first enemy of bolsheviks were british/, later after the M.Kampf , Germany.
    Stalin should offer to help A.Hitler with G.B.
    As there were 1.5 millions Wehrmacht soldiers in France , and more in many occupied countries of Europe + civilians , how many Germans were left to attack Russia..
    He /Hitler/, needed desperately auxiliary divisions from Italy, Spain, Romania , Finland, Croatia etc.
    I believe Stalin should. To shoot and bomb with everything Wehrmacht standing /with no cover/,on Russian border and at the same time sent telegram , sorry Adolf, some generals got panicked ,when over 3 millions of your soldiers appeared on our border. They are not used to it.
    Lets negotiate and I will punish them and pay for damages.
    Repeated it again as soon as Wehrmacht would start to concentrate again.
    Of course Wehrmacht and its panzers would regroup and attack.
    This tactics would delay the best army in the world by far and would not permit to roll /with at least some difficulties / over any defences , so easy through , when no one could stop it..
    /Experience of Poland, France were at least Convincing to try it/..

  232. peterAUS says:

    The reality is Jews are leaders at stopping the third world migration.

    Whoah…..stopped me cold during really fast skimming down.

    Hard to beat this one. The closest, in this pub, are posts from some fellow stating that all nuclear weapons haven’t been, aren’t, real.

    It’s probably just me but I am having a vague feeling that the members of The Tribe here are slipping recently. Getting somehow unbalanced, for some reason.
    Interesting, of a sort.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  233. joannf says:
    @Anon

    Jesus F. Christ !
    The French Revolution was a monster that killed millions of French even before Napoleon became relevant. Napoleon sort of cynically instrumentalized it and thereby showed the absurdity of all Egalitarianism, which is after all about “justice, “fairness,” “freedom” and all that BS.

    He never cared about the lives of the completely moronic herd animals who followed him – we’re now living in similar times, the Egalite is even worse with us, there’s just no enterprising leaders around – they’re all mediocre today…
    I never gave an opinion about that, just about the strategical and tactical issues, about military history only.
    There’s no morals and ethics in that at all.
    Why are men always so emotional 😉

    Humans stopped evolving thousands of years ago. They’re now beginning to feel evolution’s revenge, and in the face of that they once again fall for egalitarianism like rodents, not intelligent enough to find their way. The only way is forward.

    • Replies: @Paw
  234. Johan says:
    @Lot

    US Americans…, they suffer at large collectively from narcissism, are at large generally delusional and are ,save a few, all aesthetic barbarians. Ever observed how they speak? they sound like robots, devoid of any musicality. And their ridiculous attempts of trying to sound serious… ever noticed how, when their highest officials do official speeches, they sort of build in short pauses between sentences in order to sound dignified, but it is all just a bit too forced, too much, too little, of track.., they just can’t get it straight because they are all fake, pretense, pomp and boasting, no class, no style, and consequently, the dignity is all act… And in their TV shows, their woman look like transvestites, and these males, they look like slick monkeys with suits.. Actually of the above traits, it is mostly the white US Americans who suffer them, aside of those who play ball with the whites, like Obama for instance.
    Now look at Russian women, or Iranian women and males, there you got some class and beauty, some characteristic stuff, some style, some soul, even when they would better be avoided they have some sort of living soul, something which the US has generally lost somewhere down the line, post WWII.. but that is what you get when you sell your soul, keep on boasting and making lots of noise, you become utterly ridiculous without realizing it yourself.

  235. Seraphim says:
    @Avianthro

    It is not true that “Islam sees belief in Jesus’ divinity as more of a forgivable intellectual error than as a damnable heresy”. On the contrary, it considers it the most grievous of sins to be punished both on earth as in the afterlife: shirk (Arabic: شرك‎ širk) the sin of idolatry or polytheism, i.e., the deification or worship of anyone or anything besides God.
    In the ‘autoritative’ translation of Yusuf Ali (with comments):
    4:48: “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin (569) Most heinous indeed”.
    n. 569: “Just as in an earthly kingdom the worst crime is that of treason, as it cuts at the very existence of the State, so in the spiritual kingdom, the unforgivable sin is that of contumacious treason against Allah by putting up Allah’s creatures in rivalry against Him. This is rebellion against the essence and source of spiritual Life. It is what Plato would call the “lie in the soul..” But even here, if the rebellion is through ignorance, and is followed by sincere repentance and amendment, Allah’s Mercy is always open”.
    In Islamic law ‘shirk’ is a crime.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  236. @Counterinsurgency

    /it lacks a moral or ethical system other than “win fights against the non-believers”/

    With all due respect, nobody who has seriously studied Islam can honestly say what you do.

    Reason is the root of my faith is a statement that every Muslim attributes to the Prophet. Long before Europeans had established their first university, Muslims were deeply engaged in scientific inquiry and advancement.

    A short list of individuals to research: al-Razi, al-Zahrawi, Ibn Sina, Ibn al-Haytham, and Ibn al-Nafis. All of these made significant advances in the fields of medicine and anatomy without which Europeans would have remained at a great loss today.

    Not to mention innovations in the fields of mathematics, physics, astronomy, botany, agriculture, and geography, to name but a few.

    Ibn Tufayl’s Hayy ibn Yaqzan (also known by the title Philosophus Autodidactus) belies your claims concerning the Islamic perspective of reason. This story alone bore a profound influence upon Enlightenment age luminaries and is the likely inspiration behind Dafoe’s Robinson Crusoe.

    In any event, I’d provide more for your edification, but I believe this response should suffice for the time being. Until I see evidence that the anti-Islam brigadiers are actually willing to do homework beyond the cliche cherry-picking they’re so accustomed to, I simply can’t bother.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  237. Christ must not be weaponized.

    If we truly believe He is about peace and love, and His Kingdom is not of this world, seems to me a Christian policy toward the Middle East and Russia might begin with:

    1. Withdrawal of American and Nato troops from Muslim lands.

    2. Cessation of bombing in Muslim lands or assisstance thereof.

    3. Cancelation of sanctions against Iran and Russia.

    4. Release of oil to the Syrian people.

    5. Withdrawal of offensive or potentially offensive missile batteries along the Russian perimeter.

    6. Resumption of nuclear arms reduction talks with Russia.

    7. Cessation of covert regime change operations worldwide.

    I believe the result of these actions would be greater peace and security for America and the world.

  238. @EliteCommInc.

    /I am curious about what constitutes hypocrisy and to whom it applies./

    According to inherited Abbasid era jurisprudence, apostasy from Islam is a capital crime. In the post to which you’ve responded, I provide a brief explanation of how this corruption came to be codified.

    If an individual born and raised in a Muslim family remains, at the age of reason, unable to choose for himself his religion for fear of execution, this invariably produces hypocrisy. I don’t believe this phenomenon needs further elaboration.

    /If I am not a Muslim, there’;s not reason for me to be concerned about said apostasy unless it affects me in some manner./

    Exactly.

    And you’ve touched upon a point that routinely escapes the majority of posters here: where Islam administrates Muslims and non-Muslims alike, the latter are not bound to the shari’ah that applies specifically to Muslims and Muslims alone.

    When ‘Umar assumed control of Jerusalem, he never violated the sanctity of churches. He certainly never forbade Christians their myriad forms of iconography nor their manner of worship, which included musical incantation. Many here will cite the Pact of ‘Umar as evidence to prove otherwise, but most Islamic Studies scholars worth their weight have rejected this document as an apocryphal innovation of later generation Muslims.

    Indeed, in later centuries, there would be transgressions, yet these proved to be the exception to the general rule of comity that prevailed where Muslims enjoyed political administration.

  239. @Flint Clint

    Where Muslims ascended to political rule, with very limited exceptions, they did not prevent Christians living under their aegis from producing iconography or music. Your depiction is simply counterfactual.

    Moreover, if you had bothered to research the matter of art and music in the Muslim world, you’d have spared yourself tremendous embarrassment. There are a broad range of opinions concerning both, but somehow, you claim the most extreme opinions are indicative of the general reality on the ground.

    And where was religious liberty in Europe prior to the arrival of Islam in the Iberian Peninsula?

    Care to answer that question, or are you interested only in facts which conform to your bias?

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  240. FvS says:

    A good article from Counter-currents explaining why contradictory verses sometimes appear in the Koran. Don’t fall for the taqiya.
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2010/07/abrogated-verses-in-the-koran/

  241. @peterAUS

    peterAUS,

    That statement is true

    The reality is Jews are leaders at stopping the third world migration.

    “into Israel” should have been added. Well, half-truth or incomplete truth.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  242. Sbaker says:
    @Lot

    Be careful what you write. This site is loaded with Muslims and several other Semites. Islam of course, is nothing but a political movement designed from inception to subjugate the masses, steal property and force their slavery movement. Mass murder of soft targets has always been their forte.

  243. Sbaker says:
    @Flint Clint

    I agree with most of what you write. I remind you that many responses here emanate from Muslims and that Islam is a masked political movement to subjugate the masses and steal their property. All we have to do is compare nations built by Chrisitans with the rest. Nothing more needs to be said.

  244. @Ron Unz

    Just read up on General Plan Ost. The plan was to exterminate, through a mixture of direct violence, starvation and forced labour, between 50-65% of Eastern Slavs, Poles, Lithuanians and Latgalians, “Germanise” 15% and deport to Siberia the rest (I imagine a large proportion of those transported would have died en route, too). The exceptions in the Slavic world were to be three-fold:

    – The Czechs were considered to be the most Germanised of all the Slavic people already so they were getting favourable treatment
    – The Slovaks, Croats and Bulgarians were considered allies (same as Romanians, who contrary to what you say are NOT Slavs) hence also given special treatment.

    Why was the focus on Poles and Eastern Slavs rather than Souther Slavs? Because the Balkans were not considered to be part of the future Deutsches Lebensraum, hence getting rid of the incumbent ethnics was not viewed as a priority.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Cyrano
    , @Paw
  245. st says:
    @Ron Unz

    “Calling Slavs sub-humans, ….. Is that really correct? …it sounds suspiciously like WWII propaganda, … After all, Nazi Germany’s military allies included quite a few Slavic countries like Bulgaria, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia, and (sort of) Romania, and during the mid/late-1930s, Hitler had made an effort to enlist Poland as well.”
    Ron, it is correct., yet you are correct in your own remark as well. On a level of nazi propaganda, slavs were “subhumans”. On the same level, bulgarians were advertised as “turanics” and croatians as “goths”; antonesku, romanian military dictator, did not need advertising — he was from german speaking minority in Romania, or was being presented as such, true teutonic warrior. Yet the propaganda came postscriptum, once nazis secured political alliances with the above countries. Hard to say if the guy was deluding himself, or he truly believed it. He wanted Ukraine’s soil (and slave labor) for his nazi folk, so he never claimed they were not slavs; same with russians. He did not want Mediterranean region (his germans “would not thrive there, will get softer and degrade as it has happened before”), so he would delude himself that they were not slavs. P.S. I have come across historical nazi propaganda leaflets for youths ( a historian). He was getting them ready to take over both north and south of Europe, slavonic or not. Exterminating the locals first. Leaflet was printed years before the beginning of WWII. (” all of Europe has been created by migrations originating from the heart of Germany…time has come for a new one” – perhaps this was what he truly beleived. He was playing both allies and enemies. Got outplayed. P.S., about saker’s article – mostly trolling. Nothing there. Have fun.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  246. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Talha

    Abrogation is repellent.

    Anything that is against the natural order is repellent.

    Abrogation sits at the core of Islam, and cannot be ignored.

    Abrogation allows the Imam to pick and choose passages, to then get an outcome. This can be compared to law fare and situational ethics.

    Depending on circumstances, the Imam can dial up or down his followers to determine an output. This is third person control of populations of the worst type.

    Similar constructs are Judaizer Christianity, whereby old testament is upheld as being primary, when it is not. In other words, Judaizer Christianity has to tell lies in order to justify their position. Zionist Christianity is another false construct that just makes things up, like the rapture.

    So, it is bad enough to have false narratives in religion, but Abrogation is especially bad because it upholds the worst of Islam as being of primary importance.

    Takfiri’s and Wahabbism is actually MORE CORRECT in Islam due to abrogation, and hence the peace-makers get their throats slit. What comes later (post Medina) is more violent that what comes earlier (Meccan phase). The Satanic verses are upheld as being correct.

    Sorry… Saker is off the reservation on this one. He is just plain wrong.

    Religions that have psychopathy integrated as doctrine: Islam via Abrogation and Satanic verses, Old Testament … especially Deuteronomy; and Talmud.

    Talmud is straight up psychopathy and cannot be defended. Old Testament is completed by super-session, so Judaizers have to make things up. Zionist Christianity is in this psychotic camp. And finally… Islam, especially Wahabbi and Salafist types.

    Most defenders of Islam point out the pacific types to make their points, and conveniently ignore the elephant in the room… abrogation, which upholds the satanic verses.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  247. @L.K

    Ah, smell of dill in the morning. Irresistible.

  248. DanFromCT says:
    @Talha

    We’re talking past each other if you got the impression I’m in favor of secular humanism or defending the moral decay of the West. Quite the opposite. Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  249. MEFOBILLS says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Richard Tedore compiles NSDAP racial hygiene policy:

    https://archive.org/details/HitlersRevolutionByRichardTedor_383

    Download it and scroll to page 38.

    The Germans of that era noticed that mixed populations out-performed racially pure. That the Aryan, especially the nordic had some “bad qualities.” These bad qualities became good when mixed, say Aryans with Slavs.

    This whole “slav” argument doesn’t pass the smell test. It is sort of like people spinning up Hitler’s Mein Kampf utterances as if it became NSDAP policy.

    It is the actions that matter; any historian has to account for people “changing their mind – as if they actually have agency.” Official state policy also matters, as it sets the guidelines for everybody.

    And people do have agency and are known to morph and change based on circumstances and maturation.

    At the end of the war, the Germans were shooting gypsies and Jews on eastern front, whom they thought undesirable – this was the only holocaust that I can find.

    No slavs were holocausted.. that was done instead by the Bolsheviks. The Nazi’s also under-performed on the propaganda front, not doing a good job of countering Allied propaganda. Allied propaganda was first in demonizing the enemy.

  250. Talha says:
    @MEFOBILLS

    We already had this discussion for anyone who is interested:
    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/i-dont-hate-muslims-im-prudent-about-them-theres-a-difference/#comment-2075323

    I’m not interested in having it again – you are making the same exact points. Not worth my time, thanks.

    Peace.

  251. Talha says:
    @DanFromCT

    I was proceeding from your original statement:

    Secular humanism, on the other hand, assumes the perfectibility of man and consequently its track record of evil dwarfs that of all religious history by a factor of ten thousand or more.

    If I misunderstood, my apologies; I have no desire to ascribe opinions to you that you do not hold. At the very least, we have both agreed that the bloodshed of innocents in Muslim lands and Western lands should be condemned – that is a good starting point.

    May God grant you the best in this life and the next.

    Peace.

  252. Pete34r says:
    @22pp22

    You’re a liar and making up BS.
    I lived amongst majority Muslims. Sex outside of marriage is abhorred. Prostitution is extremely rare. Child prostitution is virtually Jon existent. Maybe you were living amongst brown Christians and didn’t realise. Paedophilia is quite common in Christianity as the example of the many cases against the church shows.

    • Replies: @Plato's Dream
    , @22pp22
    , @22pp22
  253. AaronB says:
    @Avianthro

    I think an important point in assessing whether Islam is a threat is not focusing only on “ideal” Islam, but on how Muslims actually interpreted their religion and behaved over the centuries and continue to behave today.

    And from that point of view, the consensus is that everyone who came into contact with Muslims had a pretty horrific time of it, especially Christians, who remain viciously persecuted in Muslim countries to this day.

    The Jewish experience under Islam was not as bad as under Christianity, and there were better and worse periods. But on balance, the periods of humiliation and persecution were all too common and extremely vicious and severe.

    There is a reason why at the creation of Israel, Jews in Muslim lands were excited and overjoyed to leave their old precarious lives of inferiority and frequent persecution in Muslim lands and flock to Israel.

    That being said, it seems “ideal” Islam is quite a bit more aggressive than other religions, and its easy to see why rank and file Muslims have always behaved a certain way down the centuries, and there seems little chance of that changing today.

    As far as I understand it, Islam tries either to convert the whole world, or failing that, to conquer it and force everyone to accept their inferiority to Muslims in quite a humiliating fashion. If they don’t convert, it is enough to humiliate them and rule them.

    While world conquest was a regular feature of ancient times, it’s quite unusual to see it as part of a religion. Most religions arise precisely to combat such attitudes. Ditto for humiliation of foreigners living with you.

    I don’t want to get into a discussion of Judaism, but “ideal” Judaism actually says non Jews living among them should be treated with special care and consideration, and are even prayed for daily. Obviously many Jews don’t follow this anyways, but it is quite unusual for a religion to actually enjoin the humiliating inferiority of those living among them.

    Muslims also believe that all non-Muslims will burn in hell, however kind and good they were during life.

    This adds up to an extremely hostile and aggressive attitude towards others even in its pure and ideal form. I am quite willing to accept that in its pure form, this harsh message has certain moral restraints that lessened its severity.

    But it is also easy to see how the common and average human being, without any special sensitivity or lofty morality, fed such a message as Islam, will develop a scornful and aggressive attitude to everyone around him who is not part of his religion, and frequently resort to violence.

    Now Zionists may try and distort American imperial policy in its favor, granted. America is an imperium and sees itself as the world policeman, which is an easily exploitable position . Zionists seek to exploit this, and not always to the benefit of Americans, correct.

    But no Zionist wishes to subject Americans or Europeans to to the harsh severities of Sharia law, whereas this is the frankly stated aim of countless Muslims in the West, and as their percentages rise, a real possibility. Zionists are not raping Western girls in the millions, out of an attitude of scorn and desire to humiliate the non Muslim that has characterized rank and file Muslims throughout their history, nor are they molesting random girls on trains, nor stealing money from Western coffers through welfare schemes in the pretext that non Muslims are obligated to pay for Muslims, because they are inferior.

    Zionist influence in America may be a serious short term threat, although its predicated mostly on America being the world’s imperial power and policeman. Once that stops, it will stop.

    But that is just politics. Islam represents one of the gravest and most serious long term threat to the very cultural fabric of the West, to its freedom and soul, and to its people’s right to live lives of dignity.

    This reminds me a bit of the way America and China are discussed here. America may be awful, but it is the most serious mistake to think China is in any way better.

    The choice is not between Zionism and Islam – the West should reject both, and understand that Islam is necessarily its long term enemy, and that Zionism a short term problem.

    • Troll: AnonStarter
  254. @Seraphim

    /In Islamic law ‘shirk’ is a crime./

    Were it a “crime” according to the shari’ah, Muslims would not have tolerated even the existence of churches in their midst, which they most certainly did.

    Shirk is a matter reserved for the Hereafter, one for which the Muslim judiciary cannot administer punishment. It’s much like the First Amendment in American civil law, wherein government may not prosecute matters of religious conviction.

  255. @Pete34r

    You are a moron. I lived in the UAE and prostitution is thriving there. In any case the child sex abuse was (is) happeing in formerly Christian England, perpetrated by the Muslim “community” there.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  256. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Yes.

    Which, for most people on alt-whatever creates a conundrum.

    “Jews are BAD”, or “whatever Jews do is bad”. So, when they operate on the very simple and extremely efficient principle “What is good for Jews” that also must be bad.

    I have a feeling that Muslims operate on the same. “What is good for Islam?”. I mean, all of them lined up nicely behind Bosnian Muslims in the wars there.

    Saker and his ilk operate on the “What is good for Kremlin”.
    Blacks, browns, reds, yellows….all pretty much the same when dealing with the “other”, Whites in particular.”What is good for us”>

    Only Whites shy from that principle.

    So…imagine if Whites in the West start operating on the principle “What is good for Whites?”.
    Or, in practical terms, copying a lot from Jews and /or Israel would be really good in my book.
    One day, maybe.

    • Agree: AaronB, Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  257. @MEFOBILLS

    /Abrogation sits at the core of Islam, and cannot be ignored./

    Well, it sits at the core of Abbasid era jurisprudence. That’s an important distinction to make.

    Where The Qur’an speaks of abrogation, it’s actually referring to those portions of The Book (revelation from God) that came beforehand — namely, The Torah and Psalms.

    For example, violation of any one of the Ten Commandments warranted death, even disobedience to one’s parents, which was, in the time of Moses ‘alaihis-salaam, punished as such. This is part of the historical record.

    To the contrary, Islam doesn’t reach this far. Indeed, disrespecting one’s parents is a grievous sin, but it doesn’t rise to the level of a capital crime, nor even a civil offense. Now, in Islam, murder remains a capital offense, but Islam is unique in that it is the first religion to add a mercy clause, allowing the family of the victim to forgive the offender.

    In short, Islam was a vast improvement upon Judaism, which dispensed with exceedingly harsh punishments for violations of the Law. To be fair, there was a wisdom to such punishment:

    God intended the Children of Israel to be a model of morality and divine consciousness. It was a matter of sifting the wheat from the chaff, a survival of the fittest, and only the strong endured from one generation to the next. This had to be so, as they were entrusted with the great obligation of allegiance to the Messiah upon his arrival. Jesus gave them the good news of “that prophet” (John 1: 25) who would fulfill the prophecies of the Torah and Psalms, providing a path to salvation for all humankind, one that didn’t require assimilation into the House of Israel. They were chosen to be harbingers of this news. Unfortunately, most of them failed in their obligation. To say that they didn’t much care for Jesus is putting it mildly, to say the least.

    When “that prophet” was sent among the Arabs, there were Jews already waiting for him in Yathrib (Medina). Their best rabbi — whom they acknowledged as such — was there, and, much to the consternation of his people, embraced Islam upon first seeing him.

    Generations after the Prophet, the verses of abrogation became a vehicle for the variety of jurisprudence to which you allude. This was a fulfillment of prophecy in which the Arabs would follow in the footsteps of those who came before them (Jews) in corrupting Scripture.

  258. @Plato's Dream

    /the UAE/

    LOL!

    Not a model Muslim country by any stretch of the imagination.

    • Replies: @Plato's Dream
  259. peterAUS says:
    @Plato's Dream

    Pretty much.

    Nicely put, BTW.
    Saved for future use/quote when the same topic pops up around here. Soon, I am sure.

  260. Islam is an expansionist territorial theocracy.

    It is theocratic not opportunistically, like Christianity, but inherently and from the days of Medina. A non-theocratic Islam is not Islam.

    So it is, just by this fact alone, incompatible with the West. Indeed, with any non-Muslim state.

    Muslims do not belong in non-Muslim states.

    It’s not complicated.

  261. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    Whites actually operate on the principle what is good for the “other” . George Orwell noticed this pattern emerging in the 1920s among intellectuals and called it “inverted tribalism”.

    Its a remarkable phenomenon that has not been sufficiently commented upon. What causes a person to hate himself?

    Self hatred and low self esteem are common among individuals, and one imagine collective low self esteem has the same source.

    I’m inclined to believe it is cognitive – in other words, the “software”. The reason I think that is because I used to run the white European “software” on my hard drive. I had no Jewish identity and was steeped in all the white gentile authors of the 18th century onwards.

    And I was “weak”.

    I became fed up, and switched software, and regained my self confidence – which I had in abundance as a child, growing up Jewish, but lost as I became assimilated.

    I believe the reason is there is something in modern European culture after the 17th century that cuts European man off from nature. In other words, man becomes divided against himself. But a house divided against itself cannot stand.

    Whether this theory is mere wooly headedness romanticism on my part or not, what is clear is that European self hate and inverted tribalism begins to emerge in the 17th century and steadily build up steam until today.

    And what is equally clear is that it is purely a matter of “software” – you guys developed the wrong software, with bugs. Probably certain features seemed attractive at first, and even though the bugs started showing up in the 17th century, only the fullness of time revealed the full magnitude of these bugs.

    But it seems that one cannot simply choose to switch software – one is compelled to by the bugs leading to an entire systems crash. People put up with buggy software all the time of it seems to have other benefits.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  262. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    So…imagine if Whites in the West start operating on the principle “What is good for Whites?”.

    Last time they tried that, they kind of destroyed their own continent.

    Whites were running out of whites so fast, they were going full on recruit-darkie mode to help kill other whites…I assume because some whites were asking themselves; “what is good for whites?”:

    Just sayin’…

    Peace.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  263. @7thGenTexan

    Yes, he is an ingrate in addition to being an ideological idiot.

    Of course, the existence of various gods or one, single, God does not depend on who believes in Him or who worships Him. If we can agree on the notion that God is He Who created all of Creation, and if we agree that both Christians (all denominations) and Muslims (all schools) believe that they are worshiping that God then, since there is only one real/existing God, we do worship the same God.

    The “God” Mahometanimsm contradicts Himself in the crummy Koran and the other writings/sayings of his “prophet”

    The saker apparently thinks that Gabriel appeared to both Virgin Mary and the camel urine drinking psychotic pedophile.

    Way to go, Saker. You sure earned your masters.

    You hate Catholics and love Mahometans. You deserve to live with each other. Move to Turkey, turkey and you can have daughters they will spit on and call whores.

    I’ll take the average Joe America over your ideological insanity any day

  264. Cyrano says:
    @Plato's Dream

    Why was the focus on Poles and Eastern Slavs rather than Souther Slavs? Because the Balkans were not considered to be part of the future Deutsches Lebensraum, hence getting rid of the incumbent ethnics was not viewed as a priority.

    Tell that to the Croats. To this day it’s the only Slavic country that’s in love with the Germans. The only thing that saved them in WW2 is that in that era, their Balkan s**t hole was not considered a prime lebensraum. The other thing that allowed (some) of the Balkan Slavs to view Germans favorably is that they didn’t share a border with them – so they had no experience of having to deal with border disputes with them. By the way, about this article – it’s pure bunkum – nothing good ever comes from Islam.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  265. “If we truly believe He is about peace and love, and His Kingdom is not of this world, seems to me a Christian policy toward the Middle East and Russia might begin with . . .”

    Christ is first and foremost about restoring the spiritual health of humans to himself.

    Let’s start with what he is about. And when he speaks about peace . . . and gives peace. It is not the same as what is meant bgy peace in the secular vernacular. It may include as much — but it is well beyond that understanding.

    it is foolishness as wisdom and it is peace amidst the storm.

    It can incite war of by its mere existence, having done no wrong. It asserted in the face of a communist agenda that sought to rid him out of mind, sight and existence —

    “i exist nonetheless”

    And unlike many here, I chagrin the use of skin color to any claim on christianity —- it was, is and remains an effort rife with error.

    • Agree: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  266. @peterAUS

    /Or, in practical terms, copying a lot from Jews and /or Israel would be really good in my book./

    America is already doing this: copying a lot from Israel, that is.

    No, you’re not going to accomplish what you desire (e.g. wall, shooting Mexican border crossers, etc.) for the simple reason that “whiteness” does not bear the gravitas of a religion as does Judaism or Islam. Even in countries where ethnic nationalism often serves as a means of cohesion, it is typically exploited by the PTB to advance partisan agendas therein. In truth, there has never been comprehensive cohesion in these countries. Eventually, that means of solidarity fails.

    Israel itself is currently undergoing an upheaval from within, one which they take care not to expose to the outside world, though, in this day and age, it’s impossible to contain it entirely. The divestment campaign against South Africa took years to get off the ground; that against Israel is gaining steam at a much faster rate. This, and the demographic juggernaut, herald hard times ahead for zionists.

    Bitter truth for the nationalist, but there it is.

    • Replies: @Talha
  267. @Gall

    The Pre-Colomban savages we’re exterminating each other long before Christians arrived.

    Ask the Algonquins what the Iroquois did to them

  268. @AnonStarter

    Good grief, Seraphim. When Islam enters into a covenant it includes the idea that it may break the covenant for any reason. That is, the Mahometans are deceptive and duplicitous and rely upon the goodwill of their enemies.

    You have fallen for a VERY old ideological tactic

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  269. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    Ahm….you know….by being a Jewish, according to The Principle, whatever you write here, w..h..a…t…e..v…e..r…, has a certain angle. You know, I am positive, what that angle is.
    Say, whatever you write has to be seen, read, through a certain filter. You know, as well, what that filter is.

    So, taking into account the angle and filter:

    …I had no Jewish identity ….

    Hahaha….sure……….

    ….you guys developed the wrong software, with bugs. …

    Mmm….

    Overall, a comment well put together. Naturally.
    Let’s keep it simple here: agree to disagree and move on.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  270. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Seraphim didn’t write that post.

    /When Islam enters into a covenant it includes the idea that it may break the covenant for any reason./

    “Islam” is not a person. It’s a religion. You mean “Muslim.”

    And there’s no support for what you’re saying. Violation of an oath is considered sinful in Islam. Were it otherwise, The Qur’an would not include a means of expiation for said violation. That such a means exists is not tantamount to an escape clause for breaking covenants.

  271. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Reminds me of Shadi Hamid’s recent take away from his meeting with some AfD hotshots in Germany:

    I guess LARPing Christianity is considered “good enough”. It’ll certainly be interesting which way this train goes…assuming it doesn’t head off a cliff.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  272. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    No, you are absolutely right to take everything I say with a grain of salt, and I have no problem with it. In fact, even though I consciously want o be totally up front with you I realize I can’t – by adopting a particular identity, you adopt with it naturally hidden prejudices and filters, as you say.

    So everything has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    As for my thesis that white culture became self hating on its own, I suppose you think I’m trying to deflect from the idea that Jews are responsible for it. Okay, fair enough, I can’t begrudge you thinking that way.

    The books are there, and people can make up their own minds I suppose.

    But I think I actually am beginning to agree that it doesn’t matter – the past is the past. The Jews did it or whites did it to themselves. Well, I suppose if Jews did it it matters in the sense that you have to remove their influence, but I mean it doesn’t matter in terms of identifying the specific negative content in white thinking. However it came to be there, it’s there.

    Okay.

    The question must be, what is this negative content in white thinking?

    Obviously, it’s a lot of negative messages about unique white guilt and crimes and the like. So that has to be removed, granted. But is that it?

    I’m thinking individualism is another part of the white thinking pattern that has to go. Or at least, extreme individualism. Some amount is good.

    What else? I would say too much reliance on deconstructive analysis, the logical method and the like, and more focus on emotion.

    I think a bit of Romanticism has to be reintroduced. Poetry, color, and the like. Fun, not just logic and responsibility like the Protestants.

    Now of course we may disagree, and you may think the only thing that has to go are the negative messages about whites, and everything else is OK or besides the point.

    I suppose we’ll have to disagree about that, and I’m offering these points just to get them out there for whoever is interested, so I totally respect that you want to move along, anyways.

    • LOL: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  273. @EliteCommInc.

    i exist nonetheless

    I AM WHO AM

    Much wisdom to your statement.

    Spiritual health imo is to know and love Christ.

    It will overcome the distractions and persecutions of this fallen world by His grace.

    Race and ethnicity do not figure in the practice of the Christian faith.

    Love is the way.
    Glory to God on that blessed day.

  274. @Talha

    That’s true.

    But there won’t be more brother wars.

    Not this time.

    • Replies: @Talha
  275. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    “I have a right to the fruits of my labor and my ancestors labor. We built it. It is ours. We came her over 300 years ago and carved it out of the wilderness. There was no intent to give anyone here, the Aboriginals, infectious diseases. We didn’t genocide anyone.”

    At a personal level, that may seem true. A good reading that would refresh your understanding on the Canadian Indigenous experience is:

    “Clearing the Plains:
    Disease, Politics of Starvation, and the Loss of Aboriginal Life”,

    by James William Daschuk

    You do realize that your ancestors were given LICENSE to do what they had no intent of doing, by virtue of the barbaric empire building of France or England.

    My ancestors, included.

  276. Pandour says: • Website
    @Cyrano

    During the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia the Croats rose virtually to a man to overthrow tyrannical Serbian rule and captured or disarmed 36 Serbian generals and 36.000 troops.In numerous areas Croats declared independence while the invasion was under way.The Independent State of Croatia was officially declared in a radio announcement at 1600 on April 10th 1941 in Zagreb prior to the entry of German troops.The Germans had to accept the fait accompli of the Croats for opting for their own state.Croats everywhere greeted the Germans as liberators.Lebensraum had nothing to do with it.As for Croatia being a s–t hole,Lonely Planet named Croatia as the top pick destination for 2005 while National Geographic Magazine named Croatia as Destination of the year in 2006.A fellow from Finland once told me that the only place in the world he would like to live is the island of Hvar in Croatia.

  277. @Talha

    I, for one, am curious to see an actual platform.

    What would this purportedly “Christian culture” constitute? Judging by what I’ve seen here, it would probably defenestrate religious liberty. I’m sure there’d be some perquisites as well: proscription of gay marriage, possibly pornography, etc.

    I gotta tell ya, I just don’t see it happening. If the nationalist contributions of this forum are a microcosm of the larger scene, there simply isn’t enough solidarity in it to establish an effective party.

    • Replies: @Talha
  278. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    ..you are absolutely right to take everything I say with a grain of salt….

    Large grain, that is.

    As for my thesis that white culture became self hating on its own, I suppose you think I’m trying to deflect from the idea that Jews are responsible for it.

    Neither.
    A certain element within White society, primarily in the West, is self-hating. Minor in numbers; large in access to the megaphone.
    Jews are partially responsible. That minority shares its own, quite large, share of responsibility. Much smarter people than any of us here already wrote about it. I am sure you know who those guys are.

    I suppose if Jews did it it matters in the sense that you have to remove their influence, but I mean it doesn’t matter in terms of identifying the specific negative content in white thinking.

    Yes……Both elements should be taken care of. Should, not necessarily will. “We” can lose. Or, everyone can lose (M.A.D. option is always there).

    .

    .. what is this negative content in white thinking?

    Obviously, it’s a lot of negative messages about unique white guilt and crimes and the like. So that has to be removed, granted.

    Yep. Unique and removed, that is.

    I’m thinking individualism is another part of the white thinking pattern that has to go. Or at least, extreme individualism. Some amount is good.

    Yes.

    As for the rest, well, apart from that GRAIN of salt you mentioned (distraction/focus thing….) no need to complicate things. Complicating tends to create distractions, loss of TIME and energy.
    Hahaha….while “we” are contemplating fine points of human nature and deep philosophy “they” simply keep adding their numbers. Dumb.Us I mean. They, you, smart actually. For now.
    You know, in a FIGHT, a lot of thinking could be detrimental.

    Now, I know that Whites in the West do believe they have a lot of time. As one guy said recently in this pub, even for racially awake Whites this is a hobby. They still believe in the system and feel the time isn’t the element of this play. Dumb, of course, as you know. And..hehehe…a couple of resident Islamists too.
    All that’s needed for them (you..?) to win is that “we” keep thinking, talking, debating….and “they” keep adding numbers.
    Anyway.

    See, while they (you?…..) tend to focus on those lofty topics of human nature and philosophy simpletons as me like to focus on simple, crude, primitive things. First “stop the numbers”. And then “revert the numbers”.

    You’d say that in order to motivate Whites to accept that HARD game one has to build some lofty philosophical/moral/mental construction.
    I don’t.
    I think all that’s needed there is fear. Raw, pure fear.

    Getting there.

    As for

    ….I think a bit of Romanticism has to be reintroduced. Poetry, color, and the like. Fun, not just logic and responsibility..

    Hahaha….smooth, smooth…
    That’s exactly what I’d like, in this particular case (Islam in Europe…) to introduce into Muslims in Europe. Would make the number game much easier.

    Hehehe…I just feel they aren’t that dumb, unfortunately.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @AaronB
  279. @RadicalCenter

    Not only death penalty for apostasy, but also look at the inheritance rules under sharia for a taste if how Islams rules on non Muslims is designed to, over time, force conversions and otherwise destroy and impoverish those minority confessional groups. Non Muslims do not inherit anything vis a vis Muslims. So if Christian mom & dad dies and there’s three kids, John, Christina and Mohammad (who adopted Islam) that means Mohammad gets the entire res of the estate and the Christian heirs receive nothing. Imagine how strong this influence works over the generations To make all but the most devoted Christian give up the faith

    • Replies: @Talha
  280. 22pp22 says:
    @Pete34r

    Google Oxford, Rotherham and Telford grooming gangs and then tell me I am a liar.

    I grew up in Oxford and the abuse was on a huge scale. The Moslems made no effort to conceal it.

    I have also lived in Cyprus. Drive west out of Turkish Nicosia and then tell me prostitution is rare.

  281. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    Not this time.

    Yeah – that’s what they kept on saying all the previous times before that. Everyone simply starts defining “brother” in their own way. Ask the Croats and Serbs why they committed war crimes against each other’s populations. I had a Croat programmer that used to report to me under my team; fought in the war – had no love for the Serbs, had a respect for Muslims (we used to talk Sufism).

    So – yeah – I’ll (cough) believe it when I (cough) see it.

    However; I would like to request that if you guys are going to have one of your periodic pulp-each-other-burn-your-cities-to-the-ground-white-on-white-violence fests, that you remove the Muslims from the continent before the referee blows the whistle. If it goes anything like the last couple of times*, we’ll be back on the continent when you guys start running out of warm bodies to put into uniforms…again.

    Peace.

    *WW2 was not the first time (Senegalese French Riflemen – WW1):

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @Pandour
  282. I stopped reading this steaming pile of excrement after the opening paragraph.

    “Islamophobia,” is a ridiculous word that Islamic apologists use to shut down any and all criticisms of Islam, which is entirely incompatible with, and hostile to, Western civilisation. Always has been, always will be.

    • Agree: Sbaker
  283. zenmaster says:

    Why should people not be afraid of Islam? This is a religion which allows men to have sex slaves, and this is permitted by the Quran, which is the world of its god-
    https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/4.24

    Also Islam encourages its followers to lie and deceive others in order to get the upper hand-
    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

    Here is an example where the Prophet of Islam, the ideal man, who should be followed by all muslims, captured a tribe, killed all its men, took all its females as slaves(to be raped later), and its children would probably used in future-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

    This is pure evil. Everyone should be afraid of this religion and anyone who says this is not so, might be more close to lying than you can imagine.

  284. /So if Christian mom & dad dies and there’s three kids, John, Christina and Mohammad (who adopted Islam) that means Mohammad gets the entire res of the estate and the Christian heirs receive nothing./

    This is nonsense.

    In Islamic jurisprudence, Christian inheritance law applies to the estate of deceased Christians. In American law, there’s a similar construct: separate Jewish and Islamic courts by which to adjudicate matter of family law, such as inheritance.

  285. Talha says:
    @E. Waldo Ralpherson

    So if Christian mom & dad dies and there’s three kids, John, Christina and Mohammad (who adopted Islam) that means Mohammad gets the entire res of the estate and the Christian heirs receive nothing.

    That is literally the opposite of the rule:
    “It is permitted to accept bequests from non-Muslim parents, but one cannot inherit from them.”
    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/qibla-hanafi/36561

    The Messenger of Allah (may Allah be well pleased with him) said “A Muslim does not inherit from a non-Muslim, nor does a non-Muslim inherit from a Muslim” (recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim).
    https://seekersguidance.org/answers/hanafi-fiqh/i-have-a-non-muslim-family-how-should-i-go-about-writing-my-will/

    Peace.

  286. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    What would this purportedly “Christian culture” constitute?

    Not sure, but most of these Christian-culture nationalists keep complaining how Islam is going to get in the way of “muh gay rights”. How butt-sex enthusiasm became such a hill to die on in European history, will be discussed by academics of future generations.

    Nietzsche called out the English for assuming you could LARP a religion:
    “They are rid of the Christian God and now believe all the more firmly that they must cling to Christian morality. That is an English consistency; we do not wish to hold it against little moralistic females à la Eliot. In England one must rehabilitate oneself after every little emancipation from theology by showing in a veritably awe-inspiring manner what a moral fanatic one is. That is the penance they pay there. We others hold otherwise. When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one’s feet. This morality is by no means self-evident: this point has to be exhibited again and again, despite the English flatheads. Christianity is a system, a whole view of things thought out together. By breaking one main concept out of it, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one’s hands. Christianity presupposes that man does not know, cannot know, what is good for him, what evil: he believes in God, who alone knows it. Christian morality is a command; its origin is transcendent; it is beyond all criticism, all right to criticism; it has truth only if God is the truth — it stands and falls with faith in God. When the English actually believe that they know “intuitively” what is good and evil, when they therefore suppose that they no longer require Christianity as the guarantee of morality, we merely witness the effects of the dominion of the Christian value judgment and an expression of the strength and depth of this dominion: such that the origin of English morality has been forgotten, such that the very conditional character of its right to existence is no longer felt.”

    It may be a major reason why Christianity is bleeding so badly right now, people dropping the religion simply because they feel sufficiently happy in keeping whatever aspects of the inherited culture works for them. Don’t know, but it deserves exploration. There’s plenty of guys like that around UNZ – would be considered complete heretics by any normative Christian theological standards:

    One of these days, on a more relevant thread, I’ll talk about the convert brother, Will, who introduced himself to me a little while ago. A lot of similar things going on with his story with this cultural-Christian business. Pretty amazing one too; white guy, studying religion in Israel, took his shahadah in a Hebrew university – I kid you not.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Seraphim
  287. @peterAUS

    peterAUS,

    I for one would love for all the world’s races, nations, religions to live happily on this world in their own territories with some manageable overspill, but it’s not going to happen. It looks bad for everybody everywhere the way it’s going. Of course I’m more concerned about the whites and look at things from their angle and it looks bad, really bad. But then it doesn’t look good if you’re in some muslim Arab country getting bombed from the air either. There’s a programme in progress and it is to destroy all nations and create chaos everywhere. Now those running this maybe think they can create order of this chaos but I somehow doubt this is feasible.

  288. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    Well, I don’t think we are so far apart. You are right that over complicating things is at least part of the problem.

    I actually think thinking too much is s big part of the problem.

    The problem is that Europeans are always searching for the “meaning of the life”. But the more you search for the meaning of life, the more it eludes you. What’s worse, the less you can begin to actually live, and the less decisive and confident you are. You are always in a dither.

    Jews have one big advantage over you – we can act with confidence and decisiveness because we are not searching. We have found.

    This is a big theme in Buddhism, that the more you search for the meaning of life the more it eludes you, and that one should not seek or search.

    What would you say to that, Peter? By constantly searching, Europeans weaken their ability to act. By being too philosophical, Europeans lost the automatic sense of the goodness of life, and made life into a “problem”. But life isn’t a problem. And if you make it into one, you weaken yourself.

    If that’s true, then part of the solution would have to be for Europeans, not to figure anything out, but to stop trying to figure things out, and just live – and act.

    Anything in that, do you think?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  289. But I think the author is right with a point that wasn’t spelled out as follows, but the general idea, being: would be a foolish mistake to consider any instance of Muslim piety as a threat to your Christian faith or the nation etc. Whst is so upsetting is to see our foreign policy befriend much more radical Islamic countries like Saudi or gulf states or Turk rather than the secular ones: Bashar’s Syria, sadam’s Iraq, Moamar‘s Libya, the attempted secular Afgan/USSR satellite state etc.; or the ones which are ancient civilizations who haven’t invaded a neighbor in 300 years, Iran.

  290. JamesD says:

    I doubt Eastern Rite Catholics in Syria and Lebanon would refer to themselves as “Orthodox”.

  291. peterAUS says:

    There’s a programme in progress and it is to destroy all nations and create chaos everywhere.

    Almost everywhere.

    Now those running this maybe think they can create order of this chaos but I somehow doubt this is feasible.

    Yes and no.
    Order where it suits them; chaos where it suits them too.
    In practical terms, say……….order in New York business district and upper-class neighborhoods. Chaos in most of the Middle East.

    Look at Syria, for example. If…if those pictures of Bradleys being deployed to …ahm…” protect” the oilfields there are legit, well, that’s the model “in your face”.

    The program we see being implemented is very good if you were, say, a White and a member of the upper and high class. Nothing wrong with being that type in Brasil, even in South Africa.
    Now…what it makes for the rest of us Whites is another matter, of course.

    No need to regurgitate that ad nauseam here. The game is well known.

    What to do about it, and even more importantly how, are The Questions. Well, for some people, anyway. The fix is well known for most of the losing group: just vote for Trump in 2020 and all will be good.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
  292. Seraphim says:
    @Flint Clint

    I guess that your ascribing to Mary Beard of utterances like ‘The Romans were Muslims’ or ‘Anglo-Saxons were Muslims’ was tongue in cheek. She might be an eccentric British academic, but she is nevertheless a historian who couldn’t possibly talk about Muslims hundreds of years before Islam came into existence.
    She talked about a governor of Britain who was originary from Numidia, possibly a Berber thoroughly Romanized (Numidia was a Roman province since 40 BC), jumping on the band-wagon of political correctness (she probably had no choice, academic jobs in UK are not secure if you don’t toe the ‘party line’) presenting that case as ‘representative of the ethnic diversity of Roman Britain’ (of the Roman Empire rather). Apparently some ‘White Anglo-Saxons’ (Brexiters I guess) took some umbrage at that, seeing in it insidious propaganda for Muslim immigration, which might be the case, but we should refrain to conflate things.

  293. @Talha

    /most of these Christian-culture nationalists keep complaining how Islam is going to get in the way of “muh gay rights”/

    ?

    Odd, since I’ve witnessed quite a few of them decrying such perversions.

    Not doubting you, but this just provides more evidence that the movement lacks solidarity.

    /It may be a major reason why Christianity is bleeding so badly right now, people dropping the religion simply because they feel sufficiently happy in keeping whatever aspects of the inherited culture works for them./

    It depends on a number of factors.

    For me, it was the absurdity of Pauline Christianity’s cosmology, which did not lend itself to a rational consciousness of God. I’m not entirely certain why others leave it, but there’s often a common thread of hedonism that runs through rejection of faith: anything that prevents us from fulfilling our desire is necessarily bad.

    /took his shahadah in a Hebrew university – I kid you not/

    Oh, I believe it.

    Living in Israel has to yield some benefit, after all.

    • Replies: @Talha
  294. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    What would you say to that, Peter?

    Operate as your tribe. “What is good for Whites”.

    Anything in that, do you think?

    Distraction.
    I think: it’s good to be seen by certain people as Islamophobic. Or……”Do……not…….trust……them.Ever. Make that a very foundation of whatever you do with/around them.”

    Simpleton thinking. “Do not go, unless you really MUST, in their part of the city/town. If you must, be aware you are going into the danger zone.
    They will always side with one of their own against you. Always.”
    That’s on daily, individual level.
    As for, say, political:”Do not allow them to become the majority in your society. Ever. If you can’t prevent it LEAVE.”
    Simple things, anyone can understand. No need to get Kierkegaard to do it.

    Ah, one more thing: “Whoever talks about Islamophobia is either dumb, or, much more likely, has an agenda which is against you. You being a White from underclass to the upper-middle-class.”

    “Take that on board and act accordingly”.
    “If you want. Free will, brother.”

    • Replies: @AaronB
  295. KenH says:
    @AnonStarter

    That’s good context but you forgot this paragraph:

    Other reports, however, have said the religious leaders were debating the move for months, and ultimately decided that the statues were idolatrous and should be obliterated.

    So it seems the Taliban is peaking out of both sides of their mouth. And some Islamists are fairly adept at jerking off Western presstitutes. So I have my doubts that it was all for the starving children but I could be wrong.

    In our religion, if anything is harmless, we just leave it.

    The Buddhist statue was completely inert and harmless and from the sounds of it out in the middle of nowhere. It wasn’t the fault of the Buddhist statue that outsiders prioritized it over starving Afghan kids.

    The Taliban could have simply said that no money can go for the repairs of the Buddhist statue until relief funds are provided for struggling Afghans and left the statue alone. They need to learn the art of the deal.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  296. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Not doubting you, but this just provides more evidence that the movement lacks solidarity.

    Yup – no joke:
    “At first glance, Weidel’s involvement with AfD is hard to explain. Weidel’s entire career and lifestyle is in direct contradiction to her right-wing populist party’s doctrines. How can a lesbian woman raising two children together with her partner even bear the existence of a party that disparages gays and lesbians as an “outspoken minority”? And how can an economist who has a residence in Switzerland, who has lived in China for years and has worked for globally networked companies beat the drum for a party that wants to preserve Germany’s national “identity” and seal its borders?”
    https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-new-face-of-afd-how-right-wing-is-alice-weidel-a-1146038.html

    I mean, after all, that is why this brother left:
    “A member of Germany’s far-right and anti-Muslim Alternative for Germany party (AfD) who recently converted to Islam has said he did so in protest at what he sees as the “moral decline” of the Protestant church. Arthur Wagner, 48, until recently a leading party member in the state of Brandenburg, told the Bild newspaper on Wednesday that his decision was in part sparked by the church’s acceptance of same-sex marriage and the presence of priests at gay pride marches”
    https://www.thelocal.de/20180131/leading-far-right-afd-member-embraces-islam-over-churchs-moral-decline

    For me

    Wait? You’re a convert? Are you serious? Have you read Shaykh Nuh Keller’s article – he mentions some similar points:
    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/bmuslim.htm

    Living in Israel has to yield some benefit, after all.

    LOL! Yeah – well his story is pretty cool

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  297. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Islam was a ‘Zionist’ project from the get-go. It went awry when the ‘Abrahamic’ cousins started fighting among themselves for primacy. But they remain united in their animus against the ‘absurdity of Pauline Christianity’s’ (the shirk, shituf).

    • Replies: @Talha
  298. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    Agreed. But in order to think so simply, you can’t be forever philosophizing about the meaning of life. You can’t be constantly theorizing.

    You have to stop thinking and just live. Then your natural instincts for survival will kick in. They won’t be overriden by theories.

    And that’s what the West has too much of – theories. We have theories about food even – we don’t eat till full, we have theories about how many calories we need. We don’t eat according to taste, we have theories about what is good for us.

    We don’t trust ourselves. How can we be expected to have instincts about survival and follow them?

    I think there is nothing basically wrong with Europeans. Basically, they are fine as they are. Its just they have so many theories that they can’t trust their nature.

    They have tried to live by theory, and so distrust themselves.

    Anyways, whether we agree or not, thanks for the convo.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  299. Druid says:
    @Gidoutahere

    Ignoramus! Do some studying before you spit your idiocy!

  300. Okani says:

    This is all bullshit.

    There is no problem with Islam or with Muslims….provided they stay in their own lands and don’t get imported into western lands in large numbers, mainly by Jews.

    The US and its vassals need to stop invading Muslim lands, at the behest of Jews, and they would stay where they belong.

    The problem is not Muslims or Europeans. Each prefers their own way of life and their own lands.

  301. Talha says:
    @KenH

    They need to learn the art of the deal.

    Yeah, they really weren’t that astute at politics to be honest. I really didn’t expect that of them.

    I can actually confirm the story about the reasons why they blew up the statue by first hand knowledge. When I was in college, we were part of a group that hosted one of their young ministers of education who had come to hit up the affluent expatriate Afghan community around LA for funds to repair schools (which were barely working – the brother mentioned how looters stole every light bulb they could get their hands on, and practically everything else).

    Anyway, he was in So Cal for a few days and this event took place while he was here. The Afghan community was furious because it was all over the headlines. He in turn was also very angry (obviously this was going to get in his way of trying to raise funds among secular types – often the mostly wealthy ones – who already only thought about giving due to their ethnic connection to Afghanistan) and got in touch with them to find out what the hell was going on. Their response was basically what the article said; they were very, very pissed off at the aid being allotted by Western countries to things like the statues instead of hungry kids and infrastructure (I think there was also something about funds to the Kabul zoo, but I’m not sure about this one – it was a while back). After that, the visiting minister was still upset, but understood why they made that decision.

    I don’t think they would have made up that story in a conversation to their own minister – possible, but far less likely.

    Anyway, take it for what it’s worth.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @KenH
  302. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Islam was a ‘Zionist’ project from the get-go.

    Yes, I remember your multiple theories about Islam:
    1. Zionist project initiated by Lady Khadijah (ra) – a crypto-Jew
    2. Jibreel (as) was actually a demon who possessed him

    I think there was one more, but I forgot it.

    absurdity of Pauline Christianity

    That’s one thing I hear from converts from Christianity all the time. But, it’s your religion, not mine so feel free to double down on anything you feel makes sense to you.

    As far as “Zionist project”…right now – I’ve seen practically all the major nationalist/revivalist European leadership pay homage at the wailing wall so, you can point fingers as you like, but those niggaz got you guys on your knees knocking out your teeth; if “Truth” is around, you can ask him what that means.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Seraphim
  303. @KenH

    /Other reports, however, have said the religious leaders were debating the move for months, and ultimately decided that the statues were idolatrous and should be obliterated./

    Nothing in this that contradicts what I quoted earlier. The deciding factor was the UN’s decision; barring that, there’s nothing to suggest they would have been necessarily destroyed.

    As if the hypocrisy of the UN didn’t provide sufficient reason to give them a middle finger … Americans would collapse upon each other like a house of cards were they subject to the kind of treatment that Afghanis were.

    /The Taliban could have simply said that no money can go for the repairs of the Buddhist statue until relief funds are provided for struggling Afghans and left the statue alone. They need to learn the art of the deal./

    And you know they didn’t attempt this kind of negotiation … how?

    • Replies: @KenH
  304. Ron Unz says:
    @st

    On a level of nazi propaganda, slavs were “subhumans”.

    Well, unless you can provide some solid references, I’m *very* suspicious about that claim, which I strongly suspect is just dishonest wartime propaganda, later converted into a widespread hoax by Hollywood screenwriters.

    Consider that the Soviets were among the top prosecutors at Nuremberg, and surely they would have provided oceans of such hard evidence if it actually existed. After all, they even tried to prosecute the Nazis for the massacre of the Polish officer corps, even though everyone knew that they themselves had done it. So finding a huge quantity of such evidence should be easy for you…if it actually existed.

    By contrast, consider the wartime American attitude towards the Japanese. Our leading media outlets regularly characterized them as sub-human, and there were numerous public statements by our top generals that most of the Japanese population would need to be exterminated. This is thoroughly described in mainstream academic texts.

    So surely you should be able to find something similar said by the leading Nazis about the Slavs. Otherwise, maybe you should stop believing everything you see on TV.

    • Agree: L.K
  305. KenH says:
    @Talha

    I understand the Taliban’s rationale. Suffering human beings should come before historical artifacts so they had their priorities straight. But the Taliban could have told people that the Buddhist statue would be left to fall into a state of disrepair unless they get some money to care for suffering Afghans.

    Ya know, a little quid pro quo that is very common in international relations but which is “criminal” if political opponents of the American Democrat party do it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  306. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    Hard times create strong men; strong men create good times; good times create weak men and weak men create hard times.

    The USA: Depression created hard men. They won and made the world as they wanted it. A good world for them and those who came after them. In the fifties in particular.
    They’ve been working hard, pun intended, to make better and better times………..and here we are.

    Look at your tribe. The people who went through the fun times during WW2 had zero problems with that forbidden word here (…violence…) when creating their own state. Haven’t had any since, though. Not as “us”. Smart. Well, the place helps too.

    I always like to compliment the IDF on their performance on keeping your borders safe.
    If only we could do the same……………………………………….

    All your top people have been in action. Look at the current top guy. Wounded in action as a member of elite unit. Look at “ours” in Europe, where the religion of peace is flooding in. Merkel, Marcon….hahaha.

    No prob, though. Really hard times are coming and the circle will repeat itself.
    One caveat, though: this time it could get really M.A.D.

    Anyways, whether we agree or not, thanks for the convo.

    Oh, we agree on a lot. Up to a point, of course. In practical terms:” keep the summary of MacDonald’s book in mind, always”. My side, that is.

    Or, when agreeing on some points with Muslims (gays, for example….) just keep some parts of the Quran in mind. Always.

    All good.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  307. KenH says:
    @AnonStarter

    Nothing in this that contradicts what I quoted earlier. The deciding factor was the UN’s decision; barring that, there’s nothing to suggest they would have been necessarily destroyed.

    That paragraph suggests that the Taliban had been contemplating iconoclasm of the Buddhist statue well before the UN’s decision. I found another article that stated they’d been contemplating iconoclasm over a year earlier, so it looks like the lack of UN aid for suffering citizens might be a cop out.

    Destroying the Buddhist statue was a waste of time and money if you think about it. Amidst the many suffering Afghans the Taliban allocated precious resources to destroying a monument that was “idolatrous and un-Islamic”. They could have just allowed it to fall into disrepair.

    And you know they didn’t attempt this kind of negotiation … how?

    I don’t and inferred they didn’t based on the tone of their comments in the NYT article. Do you have evidence that they tried?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  308. Talha says:
    @KenH

    Look, I agree with you, they could have handled it better. I’m not justifying what they did. I’m just confirming the part of the story that I myself was around for. And this was solely by accident, our Muslim student union happened to have a couple of Afghan brothers at the time that were well-connected to the Afghan community and knew what was going on, we would have had no clue he was coming in and for what without them letting us know.

    Having met that young minister of education, I can say that he was a pious and affable – and fairly dapper, in a traditional sense – individual, but I have no idea whether he had the credentials to be in his position. I doubt many of the Taliban were qualified to understand or handle international or even public relations or realize what the world reaction would have been.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @KenH
  309. @Talha

    Ah, yes … the Islam = Judaism baloney.

    Has anyone here tried explaining the fact that Islam is the sole religion named after an transcendent action or state of being rather than a spatiotemporally bound person or tribe?

    I suppose understanding it as the final stage of a continuum that’s been with us since the dawn of man is just too demanding for the imagination of our resident geniuses, huh?

    Couldn’t be that, throughout human history, men have turned to God in various times and places, could it?

    • Replies: @Talha
  310. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    This seems correct to me also.

    We try so hard to figure out what’s wrong and offer solutions, but cycles are natural events beyond our control.

    There has never been a people that remained permanently in top form and never got decadent. But the wheel always, always swings back.

    You know the story – effort and discipline and hardness create safety, which leads to a weakening of discipline, etc. I don’t have to tell you.

    There is no escaping this cycle. That’s why I think all you have to do is wait. Maybe conserve energy in the meantime.

    In practical terms:” keep the summary of MacDonald’s book in mind, always”. My side, that is.

    Wise 🙂 I am wise enough to know that whatever I may consciously think I am doing, I have subconscious motivations I am not fully aware of, and cannot control.

    Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I do.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  311. @Talha

    Heh fair enough.

    I mean only in the national sense in the West. The Balkans is the Balkans. I don’t think you are going to be able to get Americans for example to fight the Russians. You won’t get the British fighting anyone or anything.

    However you might very well have Americans fighting white communist insurrectionists.

    I just paged through a book by Charles Higham called ‘Trading with the Enemy’.

    It talks about how, for example, when a ball bearing plant was destroyed by USAF bombing in Germany, they were simply supplied from Pennslyvania via Sweden.

    The Bank of International Settlements impannelled by Zionist Jews for example handed the Nazis the capital reserves of Czechoslovakia.

    The banks of the United States, Italy, France, Great Britain, Germany and Japan were all part of the International Bank of Settlement, enabling the war to continue, reaping the profits.

    Christianity is regarded as the enemy, because as Christian Rakovsky said “Christianity is our only real enemy since all the political and economic phenomena of the bourgeois states are only its consequences”.

    Jewish bankers in the United States and the deep state in Britain for example extended the war in World War 1 by 3 years – by sending Germany an enemy belligerent resources via the neutral states.

    That was described in”The Triumph of Unarmed Forces 1914-1918″ (1923) by Rear Admiral M.W.W.P. Consett, who was British Naval Attache in Scandinavia.

    Consett believed the war would have been over by 1915, had the Zinc, copper, tin, nickel and many other war materials not been traded to Germany by the Allies.

    He was overruled by Robert Cecil – a crypto-Jew and member of the Round Table in England. Jewish masonry fomented both world war 1 and world war 2. White’s aren’t a monolith. Secret societies that John F Kennedy talked about are very real, they rule the West and it is a struggle against them who use Islam to undermine their true enemy, Jesus Christ.

    They allowed the first world war to draw to a close only when the Russian revolution had been achieved, the Federal Reserve, Income Tax, and Sedition Act in the United States established, and the flower of Christian manhood in Europe totally smashed. The Germans were completely accurate when they talked about a Jewish stab in the bank because all of a sudden all the support they were receiving from the international bank of settlements etc simply ceased, and they could no longer carry on the war.

    All wars are just revolution against the Christian west.

    So I don’t believe that a national war involving conscription could ever eventuate now between western nations. The neo-cons have zero chance of whites agreeing to die for Israel against Iran.

    But internecine civil war is quite possible.

    And you’re quite right. If there were to be such a conflict between whites, Muslims would be removed from the west.

    But more whites then ever understand the true nature of war. The only wars they’re going to be fighting are within-state, not between states.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Talha
  312. @KenH

    Look, like Talha, I share your sentiment that it was probably unnecessary for them to do so, but in truth, even if they had planned to do so before the UN’s decision, it’s ultimately a minor issue on the global stage, one which we should hardly blow out of proportion while American coalition stooges bomb Afghani wedding parties and the like. As an American, I’m more concerned with the repercussions of the criminality of my country, and I doubt that sparing those statues would have done anything to change what America is currently doing there.

    I merely observe what people choose to focus upon. Afghanistan belongs to Afghanis. They can do whatever they’d like with it.

    And I know the nationalists of this forum agree with this sentiment.

    • Replies: @KenH
  313. @Talha

    Yes, I’m a revert, alhamdulillah — restored in the truest sense of the term.

    I’m convinced that more than a few here would embrace Islam if they actually knew it. It’s exactly what they’re looking for and then some.

    Pile on in 3 … 2 … 1 …

    • LOL: Talha
  314. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    That’s why I think all you have to do is wait. Maybe conserve energy in the meantime.

    Hahaha…….

    I am wise enough to know that whatever I may consciously think I am doing, I have subconscious motivations I am not fully aware of, and cannot control.

    As the suggestion above, a?

    I just don’t feel it’s on a subconscious level. Just me.
    If only “we” had more guys of your type.

    In time, I hope. Sooner than later.

    As for waiting, in this particular case, I think an average White fellow in the West could work on his skillsets, mental and physical.
    Practice smooth lying/saying what’s smart when dealing with Muslims. As they do when dealing with us.
    On the physical, well, get healthy, get fit, learn how to defend yourself and people you care for. Unarmed and armed self-defense. Find guys like you. Train together. Have fun. Etc……

    Or……forget all that. Get on social media and watch ball games. Don’t forget the chips and beer.
    Choices, choices.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  315. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Did I say that Lady Khadijah was a crypto-Jew? I was wrong, she was a Jewess.
    Most likely Muhammad himself was a Jew. The Shia, who are the genuine Muslims and possess the unaltered (by Uthman) Koran (compiled by Ali), usually allegorically interpret the term Bani Isra’il (sons/tribe of Israel) as a code word for the Ahlul Bayt, the family of Muhammad. It makes sense. Why would Muhammad had his major revelations in the place of the Temple Mount of Jerusalem? Why initially did the Muslims prayed towards Jerusalem? That’s where ‘tolerance’ for Jews and Nasara who are not the Christians like us (mushrikun), but the Judeo-‘Christian’ sect of the Nazarenes, comes.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Assad al-islam
  316. @AnonStarter

    “Where Muslims ascended to political rule, with very limited exceptions, they did not prevent Christians living under their aegis from producing iconography or music. Your depiction is simply counterfactual.”

    Which proves the point. Where was the Muslim iconography and development of music? Tell me about the development of Islamic musical tradition. Lets see where it gets to. Polyphony?

    And that’s not correct. Just like the delicate Muslim relationship with Homosexuality, the rules could suddenly change, and those paying the Jizya could find all their music and icons destroyed and themselves dead.

    “Moreover, if you had bothered to research the matter of art and music in the Muslim world, you’d have spared yourself tremendous embarrassment. There are a broad range of opinions concerning both, but somehow, you claim the most extreme opinions are indicative of the general reality on the ground.”

    Okay then – tell me who were the seminal Muslims artists and scholars and artisans who were responsible for the development of Muslim realism. How long did they last, and where are their successors today?

    If you are trying to claim that Islam has a strong tradition of realism I am going to laugh in your face. Having a few Sultans import western artisans the same way they imported and paid western engineers is not an indigenous school of Islamic art.

    “And where was religious liberty in Europe prior to the arrival of Islam in the Iberian Peninsula?”

    I’m a Catholic – I have zero interest in Muslims using ‘religious liberty’ in order to engrain Islam in the West until they are strong enough to destroy religious liberty that they don’t believe in. Religious liberty is just a phrase that is used to replace Christian religion with religions that are avowedly opposed to Christianity.

    Religious liberty doesn’t exist in the Islamic world, and it barely exists in Israel.

    Islamists talking about ‘religious liberty’ are a walking oxymoron.

    Your claims are simply spurious.

    I am absolutely right in the differences I have identified.

    It’s pretty funny you don’t even try to contend with the others – just the music and realism.

    So tell us, who is the seminal Islamic artist who depicted Haram images of the human form and of the Sacred? How long did he last until he was beheaded?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  317. @AnonStarter

    That’s not true.

    I’ve read The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise: Muslims, Christians, and Jews under Islamic Rule in Medieval Spain, by Darío Fernández-Morera – I linked it here.

    There was no Islamic classical knowledge diffusion.

    “The oft-repeated assertion that Islam “preserved” classical knowledge and then graciously passed it on to Europe is baseless. Ancient Greek texts and Greek culture were never “lost” to be somehow “recovered” and “transmitted” by Islamic scholars, as so many academic historians and journalists continue to write: these texts were always there, preserved and studied by the monks and lay scholars of the Greek Roman Empire and passed on to Europe and to the Islamic empire at various times.”

    “The Muslim intellectuals who served as propagandists for Caliph Al-Mamun (the same caliph who started the famous Islamic Inquisition to cope with the rationalism that had begun to infiltrate Islam upon its contact with Greek knowledge), such as al-Gahiz (d. 868), repeatedly asserted that Christianity had stopped the Rum (Romans—that is, the inhabitants of the Greek Roman Empire) from taking advantage of classical knowledge.

    This propaganda is still repeated today by those Western historians who not only are biased against Christianity but also are often occupationally invested in the field of Islamic studies and Islamic cultural influence. Lamenting the end of the study of ancient philosophy and science upon the presumed closing of the Athenian Neoplatonic Academy by Emperor Justinian I in 529 is part of this narrative. Yet this propaganda does not correspond to the facts, as Speros Vryonis and others have shown, and as evidenced by the preservation and use of ancient Greek knowledge by the Christians of the empire of the Greeks….”

    There were some very brief periods of Islamic science and achievement under the Abassids. Then from about the 13th century and Al Ghazali there was practically nothing.

    You could add a few more, like Omar Khayyam, Abu Musa Jabir- bin- Hayan or Geber. It’s interesting you don’t mention what happened to Haitham. His idiot sultan said he has to regulate the waters of the Nile, and he had to feign madness his whole life.

    Not one of these names you’ve mentioned come past the 13th century.

    You’re such a liar.

    Let’s look at some of the others.

    Al-Razi – from Persia a great philosopher – all his books were destroyed and he was branded a heretic.

    Ibn-Sina is Avicenna from Spain, whose primary virtue was being a follower of not-Muslim Aristotle – but his books were also destroyed and he was branded an apostate.

    You didn’t mention Averroes from Spain either, whose primary virtue was being a follower of not-Muslims Aristotle: all of his books were destroyed and he was branded an apostate.

    Al-Zahrawi, also known as Abu al-Qasim. Most of his 30 books on surgery were based on the Epitomate of the 7th century Byzantine physician Paul of Aegina – a not-Muslim. He did do some original work. But At-Tasrif was almost completely ignored by physicians of the eastern Caliphate – it was instead recognised by Christian Europe and was translated into Lain by Gerard of Cremona.

    Ibn-Al Nafis is about the only one it seems who the Muslims didn’t destroy, he first described pulmonary circulation of the blood in the 13th century from Cairo.

    What all of these men shared was a strong influence from Greek, Babylonian and Indian science and philosophy – not Muslim. These men happened to reside in Muslim lands. There is no question they would have been much better off in Christian lands, especially Al-Zahrawi. He was ignored by Muslims, celebrated by Christians.

    Muslims banned the Printing Press.

    There have been zero, approximately ZERO contributions by muslims to science since the 13th century.

    Every person you identified comes from prior to the 13th century.

    In the meantime, Christian monks just prior to Henry VIII seizing Christian lands came within a whisker of institution an industrial revolution almost 300 years before it eventuated.

    Muslims are ridiculous liars.

    You have no place in the West. Convert to Christianity and stop fecklessly pretending Islam is anything other then a false religion that destroys human morality and enterprise.

    Zionism is Cancer, Islam is leprosy.

    We have to make-believe in real life because of the Cabal’s desire to replace Christianity with idiot Islam. As a result, hurting miserable rapist Muslims’ feelings in real life often leads to persecution by Jewish dominated states using anti-speech laws. We don’t do it here.

    Muslims have contributed absolutely nothing to anything since the 13th century.

    All of the people you named except one they persecuted and destroyed.

    It’s a joke.

    Islam is an inferior religion populated by in-bred sycophants.

    If Islam wasn’t being protected and abetted by Jews using secular force to enforce their replacement of whites it would be totally irrelevant to everything. If Islam wasn’t the weapon of choice wielded by the Cabal against western civilization it wouldn’t be a factor.

    In any case, Islam is going to get pozzed even worse the Christianity.

    • Replies: @KenH
    , @AnonStarter
  318. KenH says:
    @Talha

    I don’t disbelieve your story and didn’t take it as a justification for the iconoclasm. I understand the Taliban’s frustration with the international aid organizations but again there were other ways to get their point across, but that’s just my armchair QB comments.

    Upon further review it didn’t happen in a vacuum like I previously thought.

    In most cases the Taliban officials were fighters who’d just emerged from a very long and violent civil war so their PR and diplomatic skills probably weren’t what they should have been. And the destruction of the ancient Buddhist statue was somewhat of an international PR disaster for them at the time.

    • Agree: Talha
  319. KenH says:
    @AnonStarter

    I agree that in the grand scheme of things it’s probably small potatoes, but it just reinforces the view of skeptics and critics of Islam as an intolerant religion. You can argue that point all day but I’m just saying.

    Afghan does belong to the Afghans after all and the U.S. would not have gone to war over a Buddhist statue. It was more of a negative international PR thing as I mentioned in my post to Talha.

    If it were up to me all of our forces in Afghanistan would be ordered to come home. We have nothing to offer them or teach them and other than the corrupt ruling elite they don’t want us there.

    Afghanistan would descend once again into a hellish civil war but it’s going to happen sooner or later and there’s nothing we can or should do about it other than allow nature and history to run its course.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  320. KenH says:
    @Flint Clint

    You should probably also check out Isabella of Spain, The Last Crusader. It’s a very objective account of the reconquista and very good antidote to all of the Christians as intolerant reprobates, Muslims as enlightened and tolerant and Jews as unfairly persecuted and caught in the middle that pervades some other works about that era.

  321. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Sometimes, when you’re desperate for a bite to eat and the sandwich lacks substance, baloney will suffice.

    The thing is, when you start out with the axiomatic assumption that Islam-is-false, you can take the narrative in quite a few very creative directions. The sky is the limit and it can be quite fun.

    I certainly have enjoyed reading some of the more colorful theories.
    .
    The one thing is that most of the theories are pretty boring and basically a rehash of on variation on older Orientalist one.

    I was thinking that a more creative one would be something like:
    The Saudis know they will run out of gas so they invest in technology to build a time machine in order to start a religion where its center is in their territory, ensuring their relevance into the post-oil age.

    Even has a sci-fi theme to it.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  322. @Flint Clint

    /Which proves the point./

    What point is that? You keep shifting the goalposts.

    Originally, you claimed that Islam threatens the west due to its perspective of art and music, and my statement remains correct: with very few exceptions, Muslims who ruled over Christians didn’t prevent them from producing art and music.

    Now you’re setting up a strawman, claiming that Islam threatens the west because Muslims have a different view of art and music than do Christians, which makes no sense whatsoever, since wherever Muslims ruled, they didn’t subject Christians to any of the imperatives of Islam with the exception of the jizya, which was typically far lower than any tax they had paid in non-Muslim lands and used specifically for the commonwealth of Christian communities.

    Is there a Muslim Da Vinci or Michaelangelo? No, admittedly not, but that’s beside the point, which concerned the alleged “threat” of Muslims to Christian art and music.

    /Religious liberty is just a phrase that is used to replace Christian religion with religions that are avowedly opposed to Christianity./

    Thank you for sharing this perspective.

    Were Islam “opposed” to Christianity as you imagine it is, we’d have a much different historical record before us. Not a single ancient church would be standing in the Middle East, which, quite obviously, is not the case. Doctrinally, Islam is distinct from Christianity, but the vast majority of Muslim rulers never sought to deny Christians the right to practice their religion freely.

    As such, your statement is simply incorrect.

    Have Muslim leaders applied 2: 256 perfectly at all times? Clearly not, though the mandate for such liberty is codified in the religion, however imperfectly Muslims may have applied it. Personally, I think America exemplifies that aspect of the shari’ah better than any other country on earth. That may make me a heretic to some, but it’s no big thing. I’ve been dealing with judge/jury/executioner types too long to care.

    /It’s pretty funny you don’t even try to contend with the others/

    What were they? Let’s see …

    Cousin marriage? Not mandated in Islam, nor is it expressly forbidden in Christianity or Judaism.

    Monogamy? Explicitly encouraged in Islam. The verse concerning polygamy came as a consequence of many men dying in battle. It’s a situational mandate, and even if some don’t see it as such, it certainly doesn’t affect non-Muslims, to whom it’s not addressed.

    (Incidentally, Islam limited the number of wives permitted to four. In Judaism, there is no limit.)

    Natural law? It’s part of the Islamic pantheon. Do a search for Hayy ibn Yaqzan to learn about one of the most influential novels of the Enlightenment era.

    Free will? Well, the very phrase is misleading. Nobody is free to will anything they want. You can’t will spontaneously generated money from the sky, no matter how appealing the prospect.

    The more accurate term is iradah al-juz’iyyah, limited will, which everybody has. A common synonym for it is “agency” and, yes, Muslims affirm it.

    So what is there to “contend” with? More strawman arguments?

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  323. Seraphim says:
    @Flint Clint

    You can’t really talk about the International Bank of Settlements in WW1. It was founded in 1930, with the specific task “to facilitate reparations imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles after World War I, and to act as the trustee for the German Government International Loan (Young Loan) that was floated in 1930… Reparation payments were first suspended (Hoover moratorium, June 1931) and then abolished altogether (Lausanne Agreement, July 1932)”.
    That Jewish-German-American banks (Warburg) supported the German-Jewish banks (Warburg) in Germany, it was in the period of neutrality of America, when a strong pro-German current was still prevalent in the hope that Germany would defeat Russia (the last Christian standing power). America maintained normal commercial relations with Germany up to 1917, when it had the change of heart, perhaps when they realized that Russia might have won. The real stab in the back was applied to Russia by the British who withheld vital armament to Russia and aided to foment the ‘revolution’.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  324. Paw says:
    @Plato's Dream

    We Czech were not Germanized and Westernized. We are 100% Slavs. And well above average civilized. More informations about Munich are available now.

  325. Paw says:
    @joannf

    Why not to go to do something usefull ?

  326. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    I was wrong, she was a Jewess.

    Sorry, yes, I forgot. Crypto-Jew would have been far more interesting, but hey, some folks like meat and potatoes.

    Nasara who are not the Christians like us (mushrikun)

    (Sigh)…
    “… Christians (Nasara) say: ‘The Messiah is the son of Allah.’ That is their saying with their mouths…” (9:30)

    But…

  327. @KenH

    /I agree that in the grand scheme of things it’s probably small potatoes, but it just reinforces the view of skeptics and critics of Islam as an intolerant religion. /

    Understood.

    Active churches, synagogues and temples are inviolable according to the shari’ah. I realize that this perspective has not always held sway over Muslims, the most famous example being that of the Hagia Sophia. Interestingly, Christian iconography survived therein even after the conquest of Constantinople. It was merely covered with a shroud until such time as the mosque became a museum.

    In their own homes, Muslims typically avoid hanging displays of art depicting any image of an animal or human being, though again, there are differences of opinion on this. Personally, I’m a bit skeptical about the ahaddith concerning the matter, though I respect the custom of abiding by said austerity.

    • Replies: @KenH
  328. @AnonStarter

    Islam absolutely proscribed the development of music and art in all the areas it conquered. Like the Hagia Sophia. Literally every realist image or structure was removed and replaced with Muslim non-realist art.

    Your contentions don’t even reach to the level of Wikipedia.

    “In 1453, Constantinople was conquered by the Ottoman Empire under Mehmed the Conqueror, who ordered this main church of Orthodox Christianity converted into a mosque. Although some parts of the city of Constantinople had fallen into disrepair, the cathedral had been maintained with funds set aside for this purpose, and the Christian cathedral made a strong impression on the new Ottoman rulers who conceived its conversion.[10][11] The bells, altar, iconostasis, and other relics were destroyed and the mosaics depicting Jesus, his Mother Mary, Christian saints, and angels were also destroyed or plastered over”.

    Why were all those realist images destroyed Muhammad?

    I thought Mary was revered in Islam, or something. But the status of Mary is secondary to the prohibition of idolatry yes? Why did they destroy all the images?

    Christianity has it’s own surges of Puritanism, but I’m a Catholic, not a Puritan.

    I’m not even saying that Muslim art is bad. I appreciate it for what it is.

    But do not tell ridiculous lies about Islam and art. There is no realist Muslim art. There isn’t. Tell me who the salient realist Islamic artists are. Don’t just give me arabic names for Byzantinian or Jewish artisans – give me a single Islamic Realist artist from after the 13th century.

    There isn’t a Muslim Da Vinci or Michaelangelo because of what I said – Idolatry is forbidden to the point of proscribing realism. Give me one, single influential Islamic Realist artist who wasn’t a Not-Muslim. Just one.

    “Have Muslim leaders applied 2: 256 perfectly at all times? Clearly not, though the mandate for such liberty is codified in the religion, however imperfectly Muslims may have applied it”

    Oh right. So it’s there. It’s just that it’s never been applied. Every single Muslim thinker cited here by muslim apologists was from prior to Al Ghazali and the 13th century. And most of them were distinctive and distinguished because of their channelling of Babylonian, Indian, and Greek thought. And all but one of them were destroyed by pig Islamists.

    “Cousin marriage? Not mandated in Islam, nor is it expressly forbidden in Christianity or Judaism.”

    Except 55% of Pakistanis in Britain have married their cousins, and half of the Islamic world is inbred.

    Leviticus bans cousin marriage, and it’s banned in 31 American states as a result of Christian and scientific prohibition.

    Read the link I posted. The difference is so stark that it literally accounts for a genetic difference between Christian and Muslims heritage genetic groups.

    “Monogamy? Explicitly encouraged in Islam. The verse concerning polygamy came as a consequence of many men dying in battle. It’s a situational mandate, and even if some don’t see it as such, it certainly doesn’t affect non-Muslims, to whom it’s not addressed.”

    It doesn’t matter if it’s not addressed to non-Muslims. If Muslims become a dominant culture in the West, it will mean they will regard any restrictions on polygamy as racist and Islamophobic.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2012/04/polygamy-too-david-j-rusin/

    Muslim Brotherhood rats are already trying to get polygamy recognised, ironically enough, now using the precedent of gay marriage.

    It doesn’t matter where polygamy comes from. Islam is polygamist, Christianity is Monogamist. That makes for very, very different societies.

    As the West becomes post Christian and female hypergamy expresses itself we are seeing the devastating consequences of de-facto or pseudo polygamy.

    Yes, I agree. Islam has 4, Judaism no limit. Both aren’t western, or Christian. I’m not a binary thinker.

    Natural law? It’s part of the Islamic pantheon. Do a search for Hayy ibn Yaqzan to learn about one of the most influential novels of the Enlightenment era.

    Ibn Tufail who wrote Hayy ibn yaqzan was again a follower of Aristotle, and again he was a philosopher during the 12th century.

    None of you can come up with any significant muslim thinkier from the 13th century onwards, and every single Muslim scholar you cite was an adherent of Aristotle. As far as I can see Ibn Tufail didn’t have any of his books burned while he was alive. But it looks like they got burned by Al Ghazali from the 13th century. And that book says nothing about natural law – maybe precursors if you really stretch it.

    There is absolutely no natural law tradition in Islam. Hayy ibn yaqzan only found it’s expression in Europe and the West, not in Islam. And it looks like it was a foundation for the enlightenment – I thought that was the cause of all the wests problems – is the enlightenment good or bad?

    And when Tufail was cited by people like Avicenna he was rendered an apostate.

    Do you get it idiot? How much more of a signal do you need that none of these men are considered Islamic by the fact they were rendered apostates precisely because they were contravening the true Islam?

    “Free will? Well, the very phrase is misleading. Nobody is free to will anything they want. You can’t will spontaneously generated money from the sky, no matter how appealing the prospect.”

    Yeah, nah.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a3.htm

    Find me the Islamic equivalent to this passage which is the Catholic conception of free will.

    Is that different to limited will?

    If it is, then you have a genuine difference.

    There are no strawmen.

    Every word I said is truth.

    Why do Muslims lie so much? Why are Jewish lies any different to Muslim lies? Both lie.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Anon
  329. Mr. Grey says:

    I don’t see anything “phobic” about condemning a hateful ideology.

  330. Mr. Grey says:
    @Anonymous

    The Orthodox church has been on the receiving end of Islamic terror since before 700 A.D.

    • Replies: @Talha
  331. @Talha

    [laughing]

    MbS in … Qat-Tub Time Machine.

    • LOL: Talha
  332. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    The Balkans is the Balkans.

    Pfffshwahahahaha! Yeah – I mean, what’s the worst that could possibly happen if some Serbian guy shoots an Austrian in the Balkans. No sweat.

    I don’t think you are going to be able to get Americans for example to fight the Russians.

    I should certainly hope not – those two Christian nations have a nuclear shotgun in the mouth of the entire world. We could easily see 1/3 of the world’s population obliterated within a few hours.

    Jewish masonry fomented both world war 1 and world war 2.

    Well that certainly would mean that on-your-knees-getting-your-teeth-knocked-in is older than I thought.

    The neo-cons have zero chance of whites agreeing to die for Israel against Iran.

    OK – if you say so. I mean, I certainly hope you are right, but you guys really haven’t disappointed them yet. I remember when the public came out strongly against US involvement in Syria in Obama’s time, but…here we are:
    “US Defense Department officials on Thursday defended the latest deployment of hundreds of infantry troops and armored vehicles to guard rich oil fields in northeastern Syria, arguing that the mission is key to the ongoing campaign to defeat the Islamic State despite questions being raised about its legality and credibility.”
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/07/pentagon-defends-murky-mission-syria-oil-fields-islamic-state-russia-syria/

    So yeah, consider me…unconvinced.

    Muslims would be removed from the west.

    And they would thank you for it if what I think would likely happen, would happen.

    The only wars they’re going to be fighting are within-state, not between states.

    OK – if you say so. I mean it’s great you have that kind of optimistic outlook, that’s awesome.

    Me? I’m just going off of what I’ve read about European history and stuff like I’ve seen happen with the Balkans and Russia/Ukraine – and I honestly have little confidence something considered small won’t spark something bigger.

    Thirty Years War, Seven Years War, Napoleonic Wars, and so on and so forth. Europeans seems to have an itch for continental-wide conflict every so often. Maybe it’s a combination of the winters and high-IQ where you guys just have to beat the s*** out of each other once in a while to let it all out, I don’t know. Certainly this was a big factor in the failure of the Crusades; started out well enough until you guys realized how much more you liked killing each other on continental Europe than killing us and it all went downhill from there – prove me wrong. This elite genius move didn’t help either:
    So, you do you, bro. Maybe next time will be different…maybe:
    Peace.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  333. @Seraphim

    Yes, replace with ‘neutral countries’.

    Germany would have run out of resources by 1915 if allied banking and industrial interests hadn’t supplied them via the neutral countries.

    Many Jews in World War 1 did fight for Germany – but there has always been a big disjunction between the international families and I suppose the merely beourgosie.

    The point being made is that was is always about fomenting revolution, and the same people fund both sides.

    This isn’t a startling obvservation for some, but it needs reminding.

  334. @Talha

    Yes – ten million of the apotheosis of European Christian men were slaughtered by Rothschild Maxims.

    “This war was concocted by Illuminati (Cabalist) Jewish bankers and Freemasons.

    On the British side were Lord Robert Cecil, a wealthy banker; Lord Herbert H. Asquith, British Prime Minister 1908-1916; Viscount Haldane, Secretary of State for War; Lord Nathan Rothschild; and Lord Alfred Milner, the second most powerful man in the British government after 1916.

    A French observer wrote, “for some time a group of financiers whose families for the most part are of German Jewish origin…exerts a dominant influence over [Prime Minister 1916-1922] Lloyd George. The Monds, the Sassoons, Rufus Isaacs, representatives of the International Banking interests, dominate England, own its newspapers and control its election.”

    Conditions in Germany were similar. “…since the beginning of Kaiser Wilhem II’s reign, the Illuminati Jews had been the real rulers of the German empire. For the last fifteen years, those in immediate personal contact with the Kaiser were the Hebrew financiers., Hebrew manufacturers and Hebrew merchants such as Emile and Walter Rathenau, Ballin, Schwabach, James Simon, Friedlander-Fuld, Goldberger etc. (The Red Thread, p.153)

    All that remained was to light the fuse. The First World War began August 14, 1914, after the assassination of the Austrian heir Archduke Franz Ferdinand on June 28 by the Jewish Mason Gavrilo Princep.

    Kaiser Wilhelm believed the Masons were responsible for the Great War. He wrote:

    “I have been informed that an important role was played in the preparation of the World War directed against the monarchical Central Powers by the policy of the international ‘Great Orient Lodge’; a policy extending over many years and always envisaging the goal at which it aimed…”

    “In 1917 an inter- national meeting of the lodges of the ‘Great Orient’ was held, after which there was a subsequent conference in Switzerland; at this the following program was adopted: Dismemberment of Austria-Hungary, democratization of Germany, elimination of the House of Hapsburg, abdication of the German Emperor, … elimination of the Pope and the Catholic Church, elimination of every state Church in Europe.”

    Thus Max Nordau, co-founder of the World Zionist (i.e. Masonic) Organization was able to predict WWI in 1903: “Let me tell you the following words as if I were showing you the rungs of a ladder leading upward and upward: Herzl, the Zionist Congress, the English Uganda proposition, the future world war, the peace conference – where with the help of England a free and Jewish Palestine will be created.”

    Thus with Freemasons controlling both sides, it was easy to manipulate the Kaiser into attacking Belgium. The “mediator” was Albert Bellin, a prominent Illuminati Jewish businessman and friend of the Kaiser. Together with the English, he managed to mislead the Kaiser as to England’s intentions.

    To quote Andrei Krylienko (The Red Thread): “An ambiguous statement by the British on the side of France and Russia, could still, as the French ambassador to Germany reported, have led Germany to decide against aggression…In short, war was not decided upon by Wilhelm II…but by the occult powers…by whose intrigues [it] was made to seem ineluctable.” (155)

    Wilhelm quickly recognized that he had fallen into a carefully laid trap.

    In A Child of the Century, Ben Hecht wrote, “the Twentieth Century was cut off at its knees by World War One.”

    The same can be said of mankind which has a cancer, Cabalism, gnawing at its vitals. We are at the mercy of a multi-generational satanic conspiracy which is nearing consummation. Modern history, properly understood, is the story of this process of subversion.”

    To a degree Islam is subordinate to this process, just a tool in it.

    You aren’t going to get national wars.

    Why would you get national wars when you can just do what the Masons did in world war 1 and simply pinpoint kill your enemies and take control of their assets?

    If Zionists can simply kill an entire European government – like here: https://www.foxnews.com/world/poland-president-dies-in-plane-crash

    Why would they need to use national level war?

    Anyway we will see.

    • Replies: @Talha
  335. Talha says:
    @Mr. Grey

    Syrian Orthodox Church begs to differ:
    “When the Byzantine empire adopted the resolutions of the council of Chalcedon in 451, they began to oppress those who rejected these resolutions – first and foremost the members of the Syrian church. The church fathers and the believers had to endure various agonies like bans, killings and incarceration. Many of them, both clergy and laity, gained martyrdom. Justinius I carried out one of these oppression against the members of the Syrian, Coptic and Armenian churches after his ascension to the Byzantine throne in 518 A.D….Very often he [Heraclius] used ruthless oppression through which many Syrians, Copts, and Armenians became martyrs. The persecution of the Syrian Church by the Byzantine Empire did not end until the appearance of Islam. This happened with the help of the members of the Syrian Church; the original inhabitants of Syria of whom one part was of Aramaic origin who inhabited these areas for generations and another part was of Arabic origin. When the Arab Muslims marched into Syria they were welcomed by the Syrians who saw the new rulers as saviors who freed them from the yoke of the Byzantines because the Byzantines tried by force to assimilate them into the Byzantine Church. The Syrians were also able through the cooperation with the Arab Muslims to retain their ecclesiastical dogma, the Antiochian See, their churches, monasteries, ecclesiastical inheritance and their liturgy. Therefore the Syrians under the Byzantine and Persian powers saw the Islamic conquerors as liberators and not as occupiers. The Syrians put great hope in them, not only because the Muslims liberated them from their religious trouble but also because they relieved the Syrians of the burdensome taxes that were placed on their backs. They said, ‘Praise be to God, who delivered us from the unjust Byzantines and who put us under the rule of the just Muslim Arabs.’”
    http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/2010/03/a-short-overview-of-the-common-history/

    If anyone doesn’t like this – don’t respond to me – contact them here (http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/contactus/) and tell them they don’t know their own history.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Mr. Grey
    , @Colin Wright
  336. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    Lol, well I can see why you think that 🙂

    But I only meant that since we both agree the times are not yet hard enough to produce tough men, the only thing you can do is wait.

    And in the meantime, you can prepare. That’s all.

    So again, I’m not sure we disagree, unless I misunderstood you.

    As for Jews having gotten tough lately, I don’t see yet the same level of genocidal hatred directed at whites. There are occasional genocidal remarks directed at whites, but mostly woke culture is aimed at humiliating and marginalizing whites. So far. That’s bad enough, I know, but it has not – yet – reached the level of genocide, for the most part, as far as I can see.

    Even on this site, there are lots of Muslims and whites who literally wish to destroy all Jews as well as destroy Israel, our only country. If the majority of commenters on this site had their way, it would be a bloodbath. This has a way of sharpening the mind.

    Faced with this, its easy to see why we are not afraid to use violence to defend ourselves. Before coming to this site, even I believed in a Disney version of Muslims and anti-Semites.

    You may disagree, but I think anti white rhetoric – bad as it is – does not seem to be quite on that level yet. It may get there, and if it does, I think you will find it sharpens your mind as well.

    But right now, whites are simply too comfortable.

  337. Talha says:
    @Flint Clint

    ten million of the apotheosis of European Christian men… slaughtered each other …by Rothschild Maxims.

    Fixed it for you.

    To a degree Islam is subordinate to this process, just a tool in it.

    Would you say, “Islam is ‘submitted’ to that process”?

    You aren’t going to get national wars.

    I like that confidence. I certainly don’t have it. You know more white people than me, so I’ll give you that.

    Now, I married a lady from Swedish background and I remember visiting her extended family in Sweden. Her grandpa was in the Swedish navy and he did not like Germans and – in fact – her whole family is vocal about not liking Germans. I could easily say, with full confidence, that I – a guy born in Karachi – like Germans more than my Swedish in-laws do.

    Why would they need to use national level war?

    Sell more bullets?

    Anyway we will see.

    Yup.

    Peace.

  338. Anon[116] • Disclaimer says:

    If Islam wasn’t such an icky religion, there would be no problem. But too many Muslim beliefs are just plain nuts and don’t mesh with Western values.

  339. Mr. Grey says:
    @Talha

    Syrian Orthodox Church begs to differ:

    I was referring to the genuine Jesus-approved™ Orthodox church, not some wild-eyed heretics.

    • Replies: @Talha
  340. @Lot

    In your rabid imagination the following must be a lie, though not sure where the lie for you begins.

    I am a Muslim. A convert who previously was a Christian, even a priesthood holder in my youth, a Buddhist for a decade and Gnostic for a number of years more. There is nothing incorrect in what the Saker has written, most of it is common knowledge among anyone who is not subject to the hypnosis of the Islamophic cult and who cares enough about the truth and reality in which they do after all live and breathe, and more of it he adds is perfectly correct. The only changes I would make and about to is to expound a little more on some matters such as the fact Muslims may deny Jesus was anything but a natural man, only God who is singular and indivisible is divine however we do love and respect Him as the most perfect man born and have the same expectations of His return and leading the faithful as Christians do.

    My priesthood which is a matter between God and myself because even though I was excommunicated the priesthoods cannot be withdrawn by mortal men once bestowed in accordance with Christian tradition. It is between the holder himself and God what if any of its authority he might exercise. Only since returning to the acceptance of the Biblical narrative again as a result of converting to Islam have I felt anything like the right to use some aspects of it again. There is nothing significant between the attitudes and examples of a good practising Muslim or Christian. So long as they reject the filthy Talmud the same can be said of Jews. True Torah Jews are wonderful people in my experience. All three will be living in accordance with the laws first laid down by Moses and all three follow the same singular identity of a creator God and define Him by virtue of the same exact historical narrative. All three should be peaceful, tolerant, generous, pious and well mannered. Courteous and friendly to strangers who do not seek to harm them or their homes and property.

    You are the one creating straw-men, as are all Islamophobes. You use a long since disproved assertion about the age of the youngest wife of Muhammad and try yet to compare 1600 year old practices of nomadic tribesmen in the Sahara which were the same to all even Pagans as far as age of marriage was concerned, namely age of menarche which was typically for most girls back then in their late teens or early twenties. Aisha was promised in marriage early on and that engagement had to be broken before she could be engaged to the Prophet. This took time and she was still too young to marry. In fact Shias who include the Prophet’s family descendants always maintained she was married at 16 and consummated at age 19 according to custom. This has been confirmed by modern scholars using reliable data in the age of her sister which is known precisely at certain historical events and Aisha’s own age in relation to those is also known. This was not a teaching at any rate and the actual teachings further confirmed this minimum age and added the right to choose for women. Previous to Islam Middle Eastern women had little or no say in who they would marry. Islam gave them this right and the right to divorce of their own choice as well. The right of owning property, to have her own money for her own exclusive use and many rights in fact which modern Western women would be very happy to be granted. Indeed the extra rights and respect accorded women in Islam is the driving force behind the the very high percentage of women among new converts to Islam. In true Islam, not the phoney Hollywood version those Takfiri retards act out for their masters men have a harder more demanding life. I have seen a picture of those morons actually praying together but facing in all different directions….LOL…No idea what this was not not Islamic Salaat which is always towards Mecca if it can be known. Which it usually can because most Muslims who travel have a little device, these days there are apps, which determines this anywhere on the globe and hotels in Middle Eastern or other Muslim lands or who get many Muslim visitors usually have a marker on the ceiling showing the direction of Qibla or Mecca..

    The Takfiris who are just one step further down the ladder of human devolution than the Wahhabis with their Saudi protectors (all their money still cannot ever make true Homo-sapiens out of those apes) are not Muslims at all. As the Saker says they target Muslims. The more tolerant and closer to true principles of Islam which would grace any society were they the norm the more the Takfiri head chopping maniacs hate Muslims and we not you, their ostensible masters and future neighbours, are the ones they target. They only do something in the West when told to do so by their Western masters.

  341. @AaronB

    Whilst it is fun to talk about destroying “Israel” because it is frustrating watching such an inhumane and deceitful regime brutalise an entire people under such corruption and illegal acts, terrrorism and ethnic cleansing and not say nasty things about it when we see them still getting away with the worst of human behaviour whilst being popularly and officially at least treated as sympathetic victims of violence by the captive population they have herded into smaller and smaller and separated open air prison regions. It is good fun also to make jokes about a fake Holocaust which has anyway been flogged to death such that even the remaining true believers are sick of it. They who never had any choice to believe since it is all they ever were told. Since it is the stick they use to get away with doing worse tho Palestinians and it is the true religion they want everyone to follow even by force of law and imprisonment increasingly, then it is the best thing to use to express the contempt and total rejection of the bullshit the Zippers at the top and their self worshipping tribe of God kings in their own paradigm as well as the useful idiot Xtian Zionist lackeys.

    “Israel” is an illegal terrorist begun failed experiment in making of the Jews (a modern derivation for the converts from Khazaria who adopted the religion about 600 years ago in an opportunist move meant to save them from getting whacked by the Byzantine and Persian Empires they were surrounded by and who had had enough of their vicious, thieving, kidnapping and caravan raiding and ransom demands straddling the main trade route between the two. The whole Talmudist cult the Pharisees brought was a perfect fit for them as it happens and they took to the self worship and lessons on how to cheat and manipulate their way into positions of influence and wealth over goyim societies. This is not truly the teachings of Moses to the original Hebrews but the fevered and filthy fetishes and imaginings of a bunch of crazy old perverts who ran around in the desert eating any weird thing they could whilst plying their trickery of word and deed in order to gain accolades and thus servants and followers. Mostly they wanted to ensure their priesthood class got all the poontang, especially the younger ones, they desired without interference from their own followers and first dibs on any major wealth the highly relativistic and mercenary teachings of the Talmud helped people to achieve..

    The truth about these people who have been expelled from more than 100 countries and states in their history ( and never once was it their fault of course) is that they will never find peace and acceptance among the human race just like all others so long as they insist upon placing themselves above all others in rights and even their very humanity. Talmudist teachings include the supposed “fact” that Jews are of a higher substance and have a spirit and soul. Whilst non-Jews do not posses a soul and instead are created to serve them and not to look so different as to offend or startle their delicate sensibilities. Anyone who once slips from the Zionist programming which I was brought up with, and who begins to question is soon forced by the extreme reaction of the Zionist side when one deviates at all from their story, to learn a whole lot more about these people he once thought were just people who had historically had a raw deal. That never ends well for Zionism because whilst you can slow down people’s managing to break free of a big lie by pressure and organised propaganda between media and entertainment as well as education and legislation, you cannot ever turn back the tide once someone breaks free. Truth progresses in one direction only. It can be hidden but it cannot even be hidden anymore when a glimpse of it has been seen.

    • Replies: @Rabbitnexus
  342. @Rabbitnexus

    So it is fun to dump on the grotesque bumbling entity which infests the ancient land of the Palestinians who include whatever Hebrew blood actually remains since the actual original people of the Book never left after the Romans expelled the Priesthood class as we now know. However being humane people at heart (why we decry a brutal apartheid regime and state terrorist) the majority of us do not actually wish harm upon anyone and it is the dissolution of the disastrous Jewish only state we seek same as Iranian leaders refer to in fact. No intent to wipe Jews out, unless they give us no option. Just to stop them from their crimes and corruption of humanity.. Palestine belongs to all the people and those who always lived there have most right to do so in peace and freely. In time when they have back control the Jews remaining will find out as ever that Muslim societies do not reject them, oppress them or deny them their right to worship as they wish. So long as they do not deny that right to others.

  343. @Flint Clint

    /That’s not true./

    … he said, not quoting anything I’ve written.

    You’ll have to be a bit more specific than that.

    Give or take a few points, your entire response is nothing but a protracted strawman. I certainly never broached the topic of “Islamic classical knowledge diffusion,” yet you devoted about one-third of your diatribe to it.

    Another example:

    /Not one of these names you’ve mentioned come past the 13th century./

    Did I state otherwise?

    This is quite beside the point, which was that the scientific inquiry and advancement in the Arab Muslim world undermines Counterinsurgency’s claim that reason has no place in Islam.

    You do remember that point, don’t you?

    Now, where the listed scientists are concerned, you make some rather … ah … peculiar claims. For example, almost to man, you say “all of their books were destroyed,” which is quite a remarkable assertion, given that, were this true, the very existence of these texts in European universities centuries later would evince something of a miracle. After all, of a necessity, Muslims would have had to have been responsible for ensuring the transmission of these texts.

    Certainly, there were those who criticized some of the religious perspectives of some of these men, but it’s not accurate to say they were “branded apostates” by the judiciary of the polities in which they lived. Criticism, where it occurred, would have been strictly academic and certainly not one that enjoyed any consensus. Contemporaneous Europe under the auspices of the church was certainly far more hostile to any whose religious views didn’t coalesce with papal doctrine.

    /It’s interesting you don’t mention what happened to Haitham. His idiot sultan said he has to regulate the waters of the Nile, and he had to feign madness his whole life./

    Yet another strawman, but I’ll bite …

    Granted, there were tyrannical sultans, which speaks not to Islam, but rather, to the character of the sultan himself. It’s like blaming democracy for bad leaders.

    Ironically, Ibn al-Haitham made his most important discovery — the camera obscura — while under house arrest. And FYI, he didn’t spend the rest of his life in captivity, as he was released upon al-Hakim’s death.

    Concerning al-Zahrawi, you write

    /Most of his 30 books on surgery were based on the Epitomate of the 7th century Byzantine physician Paul of Aegina/

    Well, if, as you claim, Europeans always had preserved these books and Arab Muslims did nothing special to disseminate them in Europe, there would have been no reason — particularly in non-politically correct, pre-modern Europe — to credit al-Zahrawi with any innovation, would there?

    And yet, Paul of Aegina hardly factored into the accolades heaped upon al-Zahrawi’s work by pre-modern European academics. Rather odd.

    Oh, you throw him a bone and glibly write “He did do some original work,” as if to suggest it was almost entirely plagiarized — while providing no evidence to prove this, naturally. I suppose I should return the favor and thank you ever so humbly for that breadcrumb, eh?

    This passage of yours is rather telling:

    /At-Tasrif was almost completely ignored by physicians of the eastern Caliphate/

    al-Zahrawi was Cordoban, lived and worked in Medinat al-Zahra, the royal court of al-Andalus, and his work was well received among his contemporaries, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. To write what you have betrays obfuscation of the ugliest variety.

    /There is no question they would have been much better off in Christian lands, especially Al-Zahrawi. He was ignored by Muslims, celebrated by Christians./

    An absolutely counterfactual statement, without a shred of evidence to support it.

    /Muslims banned the Printing Press./

    This concerned the significance Turks placed upon the institution of hand-copied calligraphy. Having been a student of a madrasa that continues the practice of hand-copying to this day, I can attest to how sacred this institution has been held by many Turkish Muslims.

    For dhimmis of the Ottoman Empire, however, it was not banned:

    https://www.dailysabah.com/feature/2015/06/08/myths-and-reality-about-the-printing-press-in-the-ottoman-empire

    /Darío Fernández-Morera/

    When you’re looking at a historian who hasn’t a positive thing to say about Islam in al-Andalus, you know you’re dealing with a polemicist.

    A more objective examination of al-Andalus is that of Dr. Thomas Glick, author of Islamic and Christian Spain in the Early Middle Ages. Not surprisingly, Glick also addresses the phenomenon of polemics so common to his field, a noteworthy analysis given the patent bias of some Spanish academics in approaching the history of al-Andalus.

    /It’s a joke./

    Well, now … I wouldn’t go that far in describing Fernandez-Morera’s work, but I can certainly see where you’re coming from.

    Have a good one, bud.

  344. @Flint Clint

    /Islam absolutely proscribed the development of music and art in all the areas it conquered. Like the Hagia Sophia./

    An exception to the general rule. I’m sure there are others, but they’re not indicative of the respect for religious autonomy that characterized the greater bulk of Islamic history.

    (By the way, the Christian iconography of Hagia Sophia wasn’t wholly destroyed. A quick web search will prove this true.)

    /half of the Islamic world is inbred/

    Source?

    /Leviticus bans cousin marriage/

    Uhm … No.

    /as a result of Christian and scientific prohibition/

    Well, there’s nothing in Scripture that expressly forbids it, so one could hardly make the case that its proscription is the result of “Christian prohibition.”

    Then again, most self-professed Christians are renowned for not abiding by the Book, so …

    /The difference is so stark that it literally accounts for a genetic difference between Christian and Muslims heritage genetic groups./

    Then you should definitely encourage it, since it serves to debilitate your mortal enemies. More cousin marriage for Muslims, post haste!

    /If Muslims become a dominant culture in the West, it will mean they will regard any restrictions on polygamy as racist and Islamophobic./

    Oh, I see … So your strawman about Muslims compelling non-Muslims to follow the shari’ah is just psychological projection. In truth, it’s you who want to force them to follow your religion.

    Got it.

    Ibn Tufail who wrote Hayy ibn yaqzan was

    … a Muslim. That he may have been influenced by Aristotle doesn’t necessitate concocting a false dilemma.

    /Do you get it idiot?/

    Ah, yes … the refinement and manners we’ve come to expect from a genuine Christian. Such persuasive rhetoric.

    Quick, fetch the holy water, I’m almost convinced.

    /Find me the Islamic equivalent to this passage/

    Gladly:

    They who are idolaters say: Had Allah willed, we would not ascribe partners to God; neither would our fathers, nor would we have forbidden anything. Thus did those who were before them give the lie until they tasted the fear of Us. Say: Do you have any knowledge that you can adduce for Us? Surely, you follow nothing but an opinion. Surely, you only guess. [6: 148]

    Certainly, you are accountable for what you do. [16: 93]

    Allah burdens not any soul beyond its capacity. It shall have the reward it earns, and it shall get the punishment it incurs. [2: 287]

    There is no compulsion in religion. [2: 256]

    And that man will have nothing but what he strives for. [53:40]

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @Ron Unz
  345. Seraphim says:

    Well, I do.
    ‘Nasara’ is how the Jews were calling deprecatingly the Christians of all colors: Notzrim, in Greek: Ναζωραῖοι, Nazōraioi, the sect of the Nazarenes/Ναζωραίων αἱρέσεως, with the sense of ‘followers of Jesus from Nazareth’. They never called them Christians, as they started to call themselves in Antioch, which would have implied that they recognized Jesus as the Christ, the Anointed, Messiah.
    Mahomed took the appellation from the Jews and not directly from the Christians. In 9:30 he reproduces what the Jews said about them:

    “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
    “The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah “; and the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah .” That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?
    “They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him”.
    Mahomed did not get his knowledge about ‘Christians’ from the Christians who called themselves Christians but through Jewish lenses. The Aramaic Christians (of the Syriac Churches) call themselves ‘Kristyane’ (Syriac ܟܪܣܛܝܢܐ) and the Arab Christians (Lakhmides and Ghassanides called themselves مسيحي Masīḥī (from مسيح Masīḥ, “Messiah, Christ”).

    • Replies: @Talha
  346. @AaronB

    /If the majority of commenters on this site had their way, it would be a bloodbath./

    Come now, let’s not exaggerate.

    When the Day of the Rope arrives, I’ll take you in as my personal attorney. Everything kashrut, guaranteed.

    They’ll have to pry you from my cold, dead, raggyheaded hands.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  347. Pandour says: • Website
    @Talha

    Familiarize yourself with at least some decades old details and the historical context.The Serbs in both royalist and communist Yugoslavia were the ruling and privileged nation and ruled with the aid of the army and police.All non-Serbian peoples in those two artificial criminal entities were victims of Serb state terror,mass murder and genocide.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Cyrano
  348. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Thanks for your opinions on the matter.

  349. Talha says:
    @Mr. Grey

    Ok, well that’s tough to figure out when there are so may sects calling everyone else heterodox and using the term Orthodox for themselves. Again, contact them to hash it out, not my problem.

    Peace.

  350. Avery says:
    @Ron Unz

    {Is that really correct? I’m no great expert on Nazi ideology, but to me it sounds suspiciously like WWII propaganda,…}

    I am no expert on Nazi ideology either, but is it not correct that Hitler discussed Lebensraum at length long before invading USSR? Was that also propaganda? Were those lands in the East which he intended for populating with Germanic people empty? What was to become of the 10s of millions of Slavs who lived there?

    As to ‘military allies’*: Hitler used whoever he could to achieve his goals. Using collaborating Slavs (and others) as cannon fodder does not mean he did not regard them as sub-humans. The Nazi treatment of Red Army POWs vs POWs of their Western enemies (French, UK, US,…) leaves no doubt what Nazis thought of Slavic peoples and other ethnicities of SU. (Red Army had soldiers, officers, generals, marshals from all nationalities who comprised Soviet Union).

    Same with Nazi treatment of SU civilians vs civilians of France, for example.
    Look up what Nazis did during the criminal Siege of Leningrad, for example.
    _______________
    * How many of the so-called ‘allies’ of US who are pressed into service of The Empire are really allies? You know, GW’s “Coalition of the willing” (…supposedly “willing”).

  351. Talha says:
    @Pandour

    You gotta take this up with the Serbs, bro. They keep on insisting they dindu nuffin and that they were the real victims in the conflict. All I know is:
    1) Both Croats and Serbs were found in international tribunals to have committed war crimes against each other
    2) Both are white* and Christian

    Now maybe I – as a low-IQ guy born in Karachi – simply don’t understand the elite-level genius of how that’s actually an example of how whites express white solidarity in white interests and that’s just something I’m going to have to live with.

    Peace.

    *Some around UNZ from the Nordic side of things do not consider these guys white and call them “Balkan Swine”. Now again, where I come from, those are usually fighting words – but maybe whites use that to express love and camaraderie like some black folks say “my nigga” and I am simply operating at too low an IQ for it to register as such.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  352. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    Cool, this is the second reference you’ve made to genociding Jews 🙂

    Muslims. Like taking candy from a baby lol.

    I apologize, I shouldn’t really make fun of you guys. You are a dying civilization, and there is pathos in that.

    Whatever your fantasies about the Day of the Rope, I don’t hate Muslims, and as your power shrinks, we will treat you well.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  353. Pandour says: • Website
    @Talha

    You know nothing about the Serb-Croat conflict and you are just wasting above all your own time.For one,there were no international tribunals involved in the war mentioned but just the Hague Tribunal.The leading Croat military leadership -generals,Gotovina,Markač and Čermak absurdly accused in the Hague on farcical charges such as the excessive shelling of the town of Knin which was a military target and in which one civilian was killed were acquitted and freed.Nearly one-third of Croatia was under the occupation of Srb paramilitary and the Serb-dominated so-called Yugoslav Army from 1991. to the end of July 1995.During the Serbian-Yugo army occupation over 6,000 Croat civilians,mostly elderly men and women were killed,not to mention over 3,000 civilians killed by shelling and air strikes during the war.In Croatia as well as Bosnia,the Serbs committed 90 per cent of the atrocities,as has been documented on a nominal basis decades ago.That some Croat troops killed several dozen Serb civilians during the liberation in 1995 no one denies.The Hague Tribunal was first and foremost a political tribunal which totally amnestied the leadership in Serbia for launching three wars of aggression and conquest-in Croatia,Bosnia and Kosovo,the reason being that the powers-that-be wished to preserve Serbia asa strategic partner.Today in Croatia,as a gesture of reconciliation,hundreds of Srb murderers,rapists and looter are roaming about free.

  354. Talha says:
    @Pandour

    Like I said, bro; take it up with the Serbs and the international courts. They keep insisting they dindu nuffin’, now you’re saying you dindu nuffin’. Which is amazing because that’s a hell of a lot of bodies for nobody doing nuffin’.

    I don’t have a dog in the fight between you and the Serbs; you guys figure it out among yourselves and come back and let people like me know what happened. I just see it as an obvious sign that this whole “white unity/solidarity” seems to be a pipe dream…but what do I know?

    Peace.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Pandour
  355. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    I only meant that since we both agree the times are not yet hard enough to produce tough men, the only thing you can do is wait.

    On a general level, as a society, yes. Say, as Nazi Germany after Weimar.
    Or…hehe….like your guys after Nazi Germany.

    But, a lot can be done on the individual, family, and friends/extended family level.
    Effectively, creating micro-communities of a certain type. Again…hehe….something as your guys here:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-riots-jewish-self-defense-groups-in-france-gain-traction/
    Say, whites organizing on the same principle in France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Great Britain.

    I don’t see yet the same level of genocidal hatred directed at whites.

    Now, that’s too big of a topic for a guy like me and this pub. The Professor explained it rather well in his book. I am sure you’ve read it too.

    ..I think anti white rhetoric – bad as it is – does not seem to be quite on that level yet. It may get there, and if it does, I think you will find it sharpens your mind as well.

    You mean Muslim rhetoric, in the West? Of course. Well, in public, that is.
    As their numbers rise the rhetoric, and more importantly action, will increase.

    But right now, whites are simply too comfortable.

    The first and second paragraphs of this post apply.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  356. @AnonStarter

    Alright alright idiot was unnecessary.

    But the obtuseness is profound.

    The Hagia Sophia absolutely was not an aberration.

    Isis just spent the last few years destroying everything they could touch in the middle East.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/03/isis-destroys-ancient-art.html

    Why would Christian work be any different today?

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/03/isis-destroys-ancient-art.html

    In the Maldives the local swine Imams destroyed a marine sculpture that was just some human figures for being Haram last year.

    I’m sorry friend, there is no realism in Islam. Salman Rushdie was subject to a Fatwa for saying it. Basically all events ancient and contemporary confirm it.

    There is intense realism within Christianity.

    Im not concocting a false dilemma.

    Every single one of the Muslim figures you guys have cited dates from before the 13th century. Of those cited, all but 2 had all their works burned and were rendered apostates for their adherence to Aristotle. Aristotle was considered so Haram Avicenna was ruled an apostate for incorporating him.

    Muslims have contributed practically nothing to human endeavour for over 600 years.

    Do you know what the Saint Thomas Aquinas did? Fuse Aristotle into Catholic catechism. The exact opposite of what Al Ghazali did.

    That’s the difference.

    It’s not a false dilemma.

    Muslims made almost everyone who was a follower of Aristotle apostate, because their material was Haram, not Islamic.

    Christianity literally fused Aristotle into it’s catechism.

    That’s not a false dilemma.

    All those pre 13th century Abassid figures were distinguished by how unIslamic they were for following Aristotle.

    All the Christians who followed Aristotle were literally following orthodox Catholicism.

    Leviticus does ban cousin marriage. Why do you think 55% of Pakistanis in England right now are married to their cousins and practically no English people are? Anglicans and Protestants stigmatised cousin marriage as incest. Even in the post Christian west the Christian stigma still endures.

    The citation is above re cousin marriage differences. And no, I don’t want Muslims to marry their cousins. Because westerners have to pay for their unfortunate offspring. As I linked, in Denmark a full one third of their education budget is for special education for the handicapped etc. And almost all of that one third goes to Muslims, despite being a minority of the total population. That’s disgraceful.

    Oh thanks for those passages. Where do they say that man is a rational being, possessed of a tripartite soul, reason and will?

    Where does it say that man becomes more free by doing good?

    Where does it say man acts in the form of not acting?

    Where does it talk about voluntariness by degree?

    Where does it talk about the conditions for the creation of freedom so construed?

    It’s so infantile and elementary and nominal.

    It’s no where near as fully realised or conceived. So it’s nothing like equivalent. As I said.

    Islam is such a babyish religion.

    It is insulting we have to have these ridiculous debates.

    And no, I don’t believe in religious freedom because Muslims don’t believe in religious freedom. Or Jews, their natural allies and brothers. They claim it until they are in a position to remove it.

    Thus there are practically no Christians left in the Middle East and even people like Israel Folau can be destroyed for citing the Bible in Australia.

    The west is post Christian. We will see whether Islam can conquer the West or not.

    I suspect not, because all of this false enlightenment and multi cult is a product peak historical social mood garnered by peak economic surplus. That’s swiftly receding. Let’s see where we are in a decade.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  357. Pandour says: • Website
    @Talha

    Actually I aspire to the current Muslim-world ideal of peaceful coexistence as practiced on a daily basis-over 200 dead in recent Iraqi protests,Afghanistan the 2nd most corrupt country in the world,political turmoil in Pakistan as usual with sectarian violence the order of the day,etc.Its kinda funny that folks from those and other dysfunctional countries are falling over each other to get to countries where white folk live and yet many bad-mouth them.I do not know where you hail from-Peace,but please not the Muslim version thereof.

    • Replies: @Talha
  358. Cyrano says:
    @Pandour

    Right, And the Serbs should have put you in charge of Yugoslavia because you are “western” and catholic. F**k y**, you stupid Croat monkey. I don’t care about your “culture” which you acquired while being slaves to Austro-Hungary. You never had and never will have anything of value to offer to this world.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @Talha
  359. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonStarter

    (By the way, the Christian iconography of Hagia Sophia wasn’t wholly destroyed. A quick web search will prove this true.)

    Since both you and Talha seem like quite knowledgeable Muslims, here’s a question…

    In my general readings, it had always been strongly emphasized that traditional Islam was traditionally very hostile to any use of human or even animal images, as an extremely strong form of iconoclasm. That’s why old Islamic art and architecture so heavily relied upon geometric shapes or Arabic script.

    But over the last few decades, I’ve noticed that adherents of some of the most zealous Islamic movements such as those of Iran and Hezbollah quite often march carrying huge portraits of their religious leaders, such as prominent Ayatollahs. Does this reflect a change based upon political necessities or is there a divergence between different Islamic schools of thought? I’ve sometimes even wondered whether it might be a Shia/Sunni difference in doctrine?

  360. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    From the article you linked to –

    Three Jews were wounded in the fight at the Synagogue de la Roquette, in which 30 young Jewish men from LDJ and other groups fought off 200 rioters while six police officers protected the 150 worshipers inside. For 15 minutes, the young Jews kept the mob from reaching the synagogue doors until French riot police arrived on the scene. Videos of the clashes show both LDJ members and anti-Israel rioters hurling bottles and even chairs at one another

    This is remarkable, and should be an encouragement to you when you eventually get attacked.

    30 Jewish men were able to hold off 200 Muslim attackers. It is not about numbers. Do not fear the Islamists, they are weak. And do not fear numbers.

    It is about tactics, organization, morale, comradeship, ferocity, and tenacity. Islamists make a lot of noise, but they are a civilization in decline, and a spent force.

    With a just cause and good organization, you can easily organize self defense.

    I was watching a documentary from Australia’s most famous war correspondent about the Iraq war, I forget his name. Its on Netflix. One segment particularly stuck with me.

    Basically, there was some Islamist faction that was making a big splash, beheading reporters, kidnappings, terrorizing everyone, dressing all in black and looking menacing – you know, the usual stuff that comes out of the Muslim world these days. They were talking all about how Muslims aren’t afraid to die that’s why they’re so much more fearsome, blah blah, you know the drill.

    Well, there was this scene where 5 of these fearsome Muslim warriors were laying in wait in a dark house when a force of American Marines comes onto the scene. The commander of the force decides to go in alone into this dark house and engage these Muslim lions in hand to hand combat.

    Within minutes he kills all 5 of them and drags their bodies out, despite them having prepared the ambush and knowing the terrain and being “not afraid to die”.

    I was struck not just by his extraordinary courage, but by his skill and determination and morale. He knew his cause was just. He was not afraid of numbers. And he was much more skilled than these ferocious and fearless Muslim warriors. And he comes from an effeminate, corrupt American culture! And he wasn’t a special forces guy, just a totally ordinary infantry officer.

    And I am sure he was afraid to die 🙂

    Islam is 1,300 years old, and it is a spent force. It’s days of glorious conquest are over. In its own way, it is as decadent as the West, or worse. Its all showmanship for them, like some thugs in the ghetto.

    Israel shows numbers don’t matter, apparent strength doesn’t matter. Morale, spirit, and superior tactics and organization, are what are decisive.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @RadicalCenter
  361. Pandour says: • Website
    @Cyrano

    Tell that to the 16,2 million tourists who visited Croatia up to 2nd Sept. this year,an increase of 4,1 per cent over 2018-and the year is not over yet.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  362. Talha says:
    @Pandour

    Muslim-world

    Yeah, but we’re a bunch of inbred retards with a nonsense religion, remember? What’s your excuse?

    yet many bad-mouth them

    I’m not bad-mouthing them (whites generally build some great, functional societies*) – simply pointing out the gaping wide hole in the “awesomeness white unity/solidarity” theory – that’s all.

    Peace.

    *Note: Muslims can definitely be massively dysfunctional. But I also know that around 70 years ago, the entire continent of Europe was a case study in the level of extreme dysfunction that can occur in the most high-IQ and advanced countries in the world.

    Just like you guys stare at the Muslim world now, our grandfathers stared at you wondering; what the hell is wrong with these people?

    • Agree: John Arthur
    • Replies: @John Arthur
    , @RSDB
  363. Talha says:
    @Ron Unz

    Hey Mr. Unz,

    I wish I could answer with more confidence, but I cannot on behalf of the Shiah since I have not studied under them. I can say from general experience that, yes, iconography is far more prevalent among Shiahs in my experience – and this is not necessarily a new thing. Whether that is due to a difference of opinion or just how lay Shiah operate (with or without sanction from their scholars), I do not know.

    Maybe AnonStarter knows…

    Peace.

  364. Talha says:
    @Cyrano

    you stupid Croat monkey…You never had and never will have anything of value to offer to this world.

    Ah – white unity/solidarity strikes again in all its beautiful glory!!! I can feel the love emanating all the way to Chicago.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  365. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    It is about tactics, organization, morale, comradeship, ferocity, and tenacity.

    Leadership too.
    The very same principles used in human conflict since the dawn of history.

    With a just cause and good organization, you can easily organize self defense.

    Not….quite. Not Whites, that is. Not yet, anyway. Or, not as your guys did above. “Our” people would need to be aware of the most important enemy: The System.
    That is the only and true challenge for “us”. Not “you”, of course.

    In practical terms, “our” self-defense group will have to have all SOPs and contingencies to deal with The System first and foremost. The group(s) of “others” aren’t the problem. Hehe….I am sure you already know that.

    A very good example:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

    If I were to organize a self-defense group in my neighborhood, in my estimate (METT-T), the second element wouldn’t be the “other”, no, no. It would be The System. The “other” would simply be their auxiliary.

    If there was a street fight we’d deal with the “other” with ease. Dealing with police, courts, media afterwards would be the real challenge.

    A lot of Whites already know that. More to come.

    • Agree: AaronB
  366. @Talha

    Actually this understates things by quite a bit. There is nothing in the Muslim World today that was bad as Europe back then, with the magnitude of deaths being dramatically higher than anything occurring today.
    Also the success of countries like Turkey, Iran, and Bangladesh bodes well for the future of the Muslim World.
    Still there are a great deal that needs to be done, like reducing Cousin Marriages that reduce IQs, but countries who successfully stop this, like Turkey have explosive growth.
    In fact, I remember reading in the OCED that Turkey will likely have a higher per capita GDP than France by 2050, and their projections tend to be fairly accurate.

    • Replies: @Talha
  367. Talha says:
    @John Arthur

    There is nothing in the Muslim World today that was bad as Europe back then

    Agreed. We’ve had a few internal conflicts (most of them border-type conflicts like the Iran/Iraq War, Libya/Chad, etc.) or civil war type splits (West/East Pakistan, Sudan/South Sudan, etc.). Bloodshed? Yes. On a massive scale? No, not comparatively. Which is somewhat impressive given many of the borders in the Muslim world were handed down by external actors (straight lines??!!) and not natively defined. Imagine the situation in Europe if some external power arbitrarily defined borders thusly:

    And many of our current conflicts that are the most sanguinary didn’t just drop out of thin air and were catalyzed by external invasions or bombings.

    This doesn’t absolve us of our own responsibilities, but a healthy level of perspective is in order.

    like reducing Cousin Marriages that reduce IQs

    Agreed, I personally don’t think the percentage should be higher than 10-15%. Some of the countries that have 30%+ are really skirting with disaster and genetic screening should be prioritized.

    Turkey will likely have a higher per capita GDP than France by 2050

    Did not know this. Thanks.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @John Arthur
  368. Pandour says: • Website
    @Talha

    Spoken like a true Serb-how can you not feel sorry for his kind.I dont hate him,I pity him.Even their biggest supporters the Russians off the record think they are a bunch of ignorant stupid savages but they serve their strategic interests in the region.Serbia at present is a unique case of a European nation deserving pariah status.They are the sole exception,not the rule.The biggest enemies of the Serbs are their leaders and so-called intellectuals.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  369. @AaronB

    /Cool, this is the second reference you’ve made to genociding Jews 🙂/

    Seems you need a footnote to help explain that joke. All right. Here goes …

    Do you think that I, as a Muslim, in America, particularly given the numerous calls to eliminate me and my people made right here in this very forum, would suffer any differently from you and yours if and when this vaunted “Day of the Rope” should arrive?

    Did it occur to you that, in that joke, I expressed my willingness to save your life and treat you well? That my stated intention to make you my personal attorney was actually a backhanded compliment?

    And here I gave you credit for being a little sharper than the rest.

    Oh, well. Carry on.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  370. Cyrano says:
    @Pandour

    I think we – the Slavs are fascinating tribe. On one hand we have nations like Russia and Serbia that are full of virtues such as bravery, toughness, resilience.

    And who do those 2 nations have as their closest relatives? Scoundrels like the Ukrainians and the Croats.

    About those millions of tourists that are visiting Croatia – they come to see the natural beauty of Croatia, not because they are so impressed with you – the Croats as people.

    Unless you want to claim that… Oh my God, I can’t believe it.. I knew it.. Did you perverts had sex with that land and made that beautiful Croatian coast line? Is that why are you so proud of the natural beauty of Croatia – because you had something to do with it?

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @Pandour
  371. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    I’m not sharper than everyone else at all. And if I misunderstood you, my apologies.

    Thanks for the explanation.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  372. @Ron Unz

    /Since both you and Talha seem like quite knowledgeable Muslims, here’s a question…/

    Thank you for your vote of confidence in me, Mr. Unz. I hope I can answer your question satisfactorily.

    /Does this reflect a change based upon political necessities or is there a divergence between different Islamic schools of thought? I’ve sometimes even wondered whether it might be a Shia/Sunni difference in doctrine?/

    Both reverence and political influence are certainly factors in the production and display of such portraits, though it is also clear to me that there have been divergent perspectives of artwork throughout the Muslim world. These perspectives are not necessarily explained by a distinction between Shi’a and Sunni, though it seems that, within the Shi’a milieu, there is greater acceptance of human and animal imagery in artwork.

    Miniatures are a good example of artwork that would otherwise not be produced if Islamic opinions concerning iconography were wholly uniform. A great deal of them are Persian, though there are plenty of Arab, Indian, and Turkish miniatures as well.

    A nice collection of them is available here:

    https://www.davidmus.dk/en/collections/islamic/materials/miniatures

  373. Corvinus says:
    @Smith

    “The difference is that 1.4 billion muslims can rally behind words such as “Islamophobia”…”

    How are you so certain? Are you not assuming that ALL Muslims are “the same” in their beliefs?

    “even 1.4 billion chinks with “Sinophobia””

    Well, why haven’t they rallied behind that word? Who has used it repeatedly?

    “but the actual minority of the world i.e. europeans (only 11.5% of the world) do not have such privileges and are being straight out genocided.”

    That is Fake News.

  374. @Flint Clint

    /It is insulting we have to have these ridiculous debates./

    Probably the most intelligent thing you’ve said since we began speaking with each other.

    Look, Clint …

    You’re entitled to your ways, I’m entitled to mine. You’re free to think whatever you wish, and I wish you no ill will.

    I’m certainly tempted to address a few of your points, and I realize that not doing so will give you and some others the impression that I’ve lost the argument.

    So be it.

    I hope you have a happy Thanksgiving, by the way. May the water in Flint be as pure as that of a melting ice floe upon which no polar bear has been haplessly stranded as a consequence of what might be global warming, the cause of which remains a matter of heated political controversy, which probably didn’t cause the ice to melt, though one can never tell.

    Ameen.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  375. Druid says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Judging by your comments I’d say you’ve got sexual identity issues!

  376. @AnonStarter

    That’s fine Anonstarter.

    I’m not a vulgar racist. I know there are many good Muslims, within a Muslim context. And I know Muslims have been falsely smeared by Jews for Jewish crimes by Jewish neoliberals in the West.

    I am just stating the divergences between Islam and Christianity which mean the West can never be Islamic and still be the West.

    What causes me to take on a polemical tone is what I said prior – if anyone were to raise the truths I’ve stated in public in the West, they would be destroyed by Jews and Muslims for being racist. They would lose their jobs. They would lose their reputation, and they would be lawfared into penury by the Islamic Councils and Jewish Boards of Deputies acting in concert. That’s extremely aggravating. We are forced to listen to all manner of errant lies and fantasies and offences against the good the beautiful and the true every single day – and Muslim sensibilities backed by the threat of violence are a central theme of these.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4299167/corbyn-ally-shares-message-telling-rotherham-sex-abuse-victims-to-be-quiet-for-the-good-of-diversity/

    Here is Naz Shah, saying the million raped white girls in England need to shut up for the good of diversity. And implicit to that pigs threat is the spectre of violence.

    You see, it’s an honour to be raped by Muslims.

    Thank-you for your good wishes.

    Muslims should just be warned – they have had a monopoly on violence and religious backed sentiment now in the West for a very long time, backed by state censorship and joint oppression, and Jewish partnership, with European governments refusing to punish or even collate date about Muslim crimes.

    But that has been backed by peak social mood based upon peak economic conditions which are swiftly drawing to a close.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/12/more-than-half-of-italians-in-poll-say-racism-is-justifiable

    After Pamela Mastrepietro was raped and murdered and partially eaten by a Nigerian, Italians no longer give a damn about Muslim and foreigner sensibilities and views of their own religion with respect to Christianity.

    As Conte lets more and more of you in, expect that to go up to 100%. Modern italians are a fickle breed.

    The Ndragheta might be making money from the trafficking now, on behalf of the central bank cabals, but that won’t last when no town anywhere is willing to take anyone.

    So Muslims can also learn to hold their tongue when in Christian lands, the way I hold mine when travelling through the gulf. And they can learn to deal with critique, the way Christians are subjected to relentless critique.

    All I ask is that you be honest about your religions relative strengths and weaknesses. Your strengths of cohesion, demographics and in-group preference are more then enough. There is no need to pretend Islam is a formula for scientific innovation or economic largesse because it demonstrably isn’t & never has been.

    A lot of Muslims throwing their weight around in Europe are not going to like what happens when the people they are bullying and intimidating start to respond in kind. That WILL come. These feckless post-Christian Satanistic pedo governments in Europe with their bizarre rituals are barely holding on to power.

    Anyway, don’t worry no one wins any argument on the internet. Let’s say I lost and/or it’s a draw.

    This is all just big data banking honey potting anyway. They’ll be analysing our data diffusion and themes.

  377. @Talha

    Agreed, I think what a lot of people don’t know is that Islam is not the cause of the Muslim World’s dysfunctionality, it *evolved* as a response to the Muslim World’s problems. Essentially, from what I have read over the years, it seems to me that Islam is what has been holding the Muslim world together in the face of extradionary genetic diversity and problems.
    I think a good example is in the US with Black Muslim neighborhoods vs Black Christian neighborhoods, and how the Muslim ones tend to be more harsh but far more stable and safe. Or the difference between the first generation devout Pakistani immigrants in the UK vs the second generation, more dysfunctional and less religious children. After all, isn’t all the children doing the terrorism and rape gangs in Europe?
    The harshness of the religion is not optimal, but what is shocking how Islam can encompass so much genetic diversity in a way that other religions like Hinduism and Christanity have not been to great at doing yet.
    There is a reason that the harshest Islamic countries are ones where US foreign policy has destabilized and harmed, after all there are about 50 other Muslim countries not Pakistan, Afghanistian, Nigeria, Yemen, that we do not destabilize, and almost all of them are fairly peaceful and stable.
    The problems of the Muslim World will fade away as the region progressively becomes richer and more stable, and so will the harshness of Islam and many will even leave the religion. I think Bangladesh is a good example of the future trajectory of the Muslim World.
    This will be accelerated if the US foreign policy becomes less beholden to neocons and Israel, and we stop destabilizing their countries.
    Also here is the OCED projections for Turkey:
    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/scenarios-for-the-world-economy-to-2060.htm
    I was wrong, the OCED has the economic convergence happening a lot earlier, though Erdogan may put a wrench in that…

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  378. Nice article Saker,
    As I tell my friends, Islam’s harshness evolved in response to the extreme problems in the Muslim World, many of them genetic and many of them foreign policy stuff inflicted on them by the Americans.
    I actually think that while Christanity is more useful for nuturing the environment for innovation and economic growth, Islam is *very* useful for stability.
    I think we can reasonably say that given the sheer problems of the Islamic World, Islam has done a great job of maintaining it all together.
    And Islamic countries with fairly high IQs like Turkey have been *extraordinarly* successful, with Turkey having Chinese like growth despite being somewhat richer, and with the former expected to converge with Western Europe very soon in living standards, sometime in the next two decades.
    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/scenarios-for-the-world-economy-to-2060.htm
    Just put Turkey on the graph and compare it to France, Britain.
    The OCED is fairly based in their projections, and they were the first groups to take China’s rise seriously. They tend to be fairly accurate in these cases.

  379. @Pandour

    You know nothing about the Serb-Croat conflict and you are just wasting above all your own time.

    You couldn’t be more correct about your own knowledge of this matter.

    Nearly one-third of Croatia was under the occupation of Srb paramilitary and the Serb-dominated so-called Yugoslav Army from 1991. to the end of July 1995.

    The latter part of this statement is 100% wrong. The JNA (Yugoslav Peoples’ Army) left Croatia in 1992. Once the JNA left the current territory of Croatia (Not because of Croatian military successes mind you, but international US pressure), Croatia’s War of Independence was effectively over. It then fought a vicious ethnic conflict against its own Serb minority that it eventually got rid of by expelling 250,000+ Serbs in August 1995 with “Operation Storm”.

    The leading Croat military leadership -generals,Gotovina,Markač and Čermak absurdly accused in the Hague on farcical charges such as the excessive shelling of the town of Knin which was a military target and in which one civilian was killed were acquitted and freed.

    That some Croat troops killed several dozen Serb civilians during the liberation in 1995 no one denies.

    Tell me, how do those 2 things mix together?

    The Hague Tribunal was first and foremost a political tribunal which totally amnestied the leadership in Serbia for launching three wars of aggression and conquest-in Croatia,Bosnia and Kosovo,the reason being that the powers-that-be wished to preserve Serbia asa strategic partner.

    Agree with the part in bold. Still, the truth is literally 180 degrees inverted from everything else you wrote after the bold part.

    Serbia (Yugoslavia back then) first defended itself against Slovenian, Croatian and Bosnian separatism (Serbia was successful in fighting Albanian separatism on Kosovo until NATO’s 19 nation alliance led by the USA attacked Serbia in 1999 on a false pretext) and once it mostly failed to do so, Serbia did everything it possibly could to ensure the survival of Serb ethnic minorities upon their ancient and ancestral homelands that many forms of hostile scum wanted to rid them from, and unfortunately they’ve mostly succeeded in their goals.

    Oh, and regarding the Hague and International Tribunals, nothing more besides the image below really needs to be said about why they have a fundamentally anti-Serb bias and should be treated with extreme caution, if not outright entirely dismissed.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  380. @Pandour

    You are completely full of generic Croat garbage. Still, I am curious about your opinion on a certain matter and I would greatly appreciate it if you could oblige me to give yours on this issue.

    Sometime between now and 2025, Milorad Dodik at the head of Republika Srpska declares independence and secedes from Bosnia and Herzegovina led by Bakir Izetbegovic, since Srpska doesn’t want to join NATO and live under Muslim rule, or be abolished at all in contravention to the Dayton Agreement. Such a scenario means certain war between Serbs and Muslims in Bosnia.

    In your opinion, what do you think both the Croatian state and the Bosnian Croat community should do in such a scenario?

    1: Team with the Muslims against Serbs in order to kill some Serbs and then try to expel 1 million+ Serbs to the East side of the Drina? This would also very likely include Bosnian Croats fighting as Dimmhi (Muslim subjects), or Muslim servants, against Serbs, btw.

    2: Use the opportunity to take Mostar/West Herzegovina and expand Croatia’s territory to unite with your ethnic kin at the expense of Bosnian Muslims?

    3: Do nothing. Let Serbs and Muslims fight each other?

    4: Some other option or alternative that I haven’t listed?

    I’m very curious of your opinion on this matter.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Pandour
  381. Talha says:
    @John Arthur

    it seems to me that Islam is what has been holding the Muslim world together in the face of extradionary genetic diversity and problems.

    This is correct. I’m glad you have been able to see what most people don’t see. Case in point; a country like Pakistan. Without that religious identity keeping them together, you would have 5 or 6 major ethnic groups tear that country apart – Punjabis keeping (most of) the nukes. Another excellent example is the very good relations between Turks and Kurds prior to secularization and ethno-nationalism starting to take root in that region.

    People look at Europe now and see how generally stable it is, but they seem to forget, it did not magically appear that way. I would venture to say that the religious sentiment or values among much of the Muslim world is either at par or still stronger than Europeans at the dawn of the 20th century. Yet the more Europeans left religion, they certainly seemed to become more materially prosperous and advanced. Yet, their being on top of the world in terms of technology, education, intelligence, literacy, prosperity, etc. was not able to keep two of the most devastating and wide reaching conflicts from happening on the continent. Massive amounts of bloodshed, massive amounts of material loss, massive forced demographic change, etc. Absolutely stunning! All the technology did was accelerate and amplify the dysfunction and bloodshed on an industrial scale – cities were burned to the ground in a fraction of the time it took for Mongol Hordes to accomplish a similar feat.

    So, if the Muslim world was to leave religion or secularize, would it lead to more stability? Why? It certainly didn’t for Europe until tens of millions of people were dead.

    Furthermore, the end result of Europe after that eventual stability seems to be a very, very quick slide into unprecedented moral degeneracy. It took like two generations to go into overdrive and none – NONE – of the nations looks to have been able to solve their unprecedented demographic collapse and bring it back to stability.

    So, I simply don’t see why the Muslim world would want to go through a similar transformation if we judge by what Europeans had to go through or their end result. Sometimes, being slowly and steady is better; nothing that can’t be gleaned from a rereading of “Tortoise and the Hare”.

    The problems of the Muslim World will fade away as the region progressively becomes richer and more stable, and so will the harshness of Islam and many will even leave the religion.

    I’m seeing signs (as are others) that the Salafi-Wahhabi wing (the one causing the absolute most problems) is starting to fade in the more stable places and there even seems to be a self-reflection going on – this is positive for the world. I hope to see this modern-Reformation (which Salafi-Wahhabism really is, a major break from tradition) attempt finally fizzle out to give us Muslims (and everyone else) some breathing room:

    I think you are right that with more and more prosperity, there tends to be a loss of religion – an inevitable reflection of man’s tendency to be ungrateful in times of plenty. If that is the case, it is better for us if we remain poor and religious than go the way of Europe and become rich and lose our faith. Some prices are not worth paying:
    “By Allah, I do not fear poverty for you. Rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world, just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will ruin you just as it ruined them.” – reported in Bukhari and Muslim

    Thanks much for providing a voice of reasoned perspective. May God bless you and your family immensely.

    Peace.

    • Agree: John Arthur
  382. How about the one piece of empirical evidence that we have, disingenuous creature.

    The QURAN which equals Islam.

    The Quran orders Muslims to terrorize, kill, rape, and enslave non-Muslims.
    The Quran forbids Muslims to befriend Christians. The Quran teaches Taqqiya or lying to deceive non-Muslims. The Quran orders jihad which is nothing short of the eventual genocide of all non-Muslims.

    Just like your Talmud, Jew.

  383. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Interesting comment.

    My take:

    ….what do you think both the Croatian state and the Bosnian Croat community should do in such a scenario?

    Most likely

    4: Some other option or alternative that I haven’t listed?

    as:
    Actively participate, as a part of the …ahm…”International peace effort” against Serbs in order to deliver, as per mid-term interests of The Empire in the region.
    Less likely:
    Provide full logistical support for the “International peace effort” in Bosnia without direct participation.

    Almost impossible:

    2: Use the opportunity to take Mostar/West Herzegovina and expand Croatia’s territory to unite with your ethnic kin at the expense of Bosnian Muslims?

    Depends, entirely, on The Empire. Its capability to project military power in the region.

  384. Talha says:
    @John Arthur

    what is shocking how Islam can encompass so much genetic diversity in a way that other religions like Hinduism and Christanity have not been to great at doing yet.

    One thing many people don’t understand about it is that there is a vast flexibility it affords for various people and cultures – something that is often mocked in the West (for cultural reasons), but has a core strength to it.

    For instance; polygamy is made a big deal about, but that rule is really for polygamous cultures. It’s really not for monogamous ones. In anthropological studies, the vast majority of human cultures were frequently or infrequently polygamous – monogamy was in the minority. And it usually bifurcates down settled and urban cultures versus tribal and rural cultures. The urban man says; “4 wives? Why so many?” and the rural/tribal man says; “4 wives? Why so few?”

    There are some Muslim cultures that have remained polygamous and others where it is rare (and this gap can occur even within a country like Pakistan where it’s known to happen in parts of Punjab and Sindh, but barely among urban areas).

    The touchy subject of cousin marriage too is a very interesting one. Cousin marriage is a cornerstone of clan and tribe – by declaring it void, you are declaring war on the concept of clans and tribes (which is fine if that’s your goal, but that also has negative side effects as well).
    “The medieval church instituted marriage laws and practices that undermined large kinship groups. From as early as the fourth century, it discouraged practices that enlarged the family, such as adoption, polygamy, concubinage, divorce, and remarriage. It severely prohibited marriages among individuals of the same blood (consanguineous marriages), which had constituted a means to create and maintain kinship groups throughout history…In contrast, the percentage of such marriages in Muslim, Middle Eastern countries, where we also have particularly good data, is much higher – between twenty to fifty percent. Among the anthropologically defined 356 contemporary societies of Euro-Asia and Africa, there is a large and significant negative correlation between Christianization (for at least 500 years) and the absence of clans and lineages; the level of commercialization, class stratification, and state formation are insignificant.”
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.61.3711&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    Rules were tightened or loosened at will in order to gain desired results:
    “In 1059, Pope Nicholas II issued an encyclical which required that “if anyone had taken a spouse within the seventh degree, he will be forced canonically by his bishop to send her away; if he refuses, he will be excommunicated.” In 1215, the Fourth Lateran Council reduced the number of prohibited degrees from seven to four. Still, the cumulative effect was to encourage exogamy–i.e., marriage outside one’s native community–and the growth of regional marriage markets.”
    https://pages.uoregon.edu/dluebke/Reformations441/441MarriageLaw.html

    Also, I haven’t read this (though I have seen it cited in plenty of articles about the subject of the development legal codes on cousin marriage):
    “Forbidden Relatives challenges the belief–widely held in the United States–that legislation against marriage between first cousins is based on a biological risk to offspring. In fact, its author maintains, the U.S. prohibition against such unions originated largely because of the belief that it would promote more rapid assimilation of immigrants.”
    https://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/catalog/76rws4ss9780252065408.html

    Again, I agree that high rates of cousin marriage are problematic, but complete interdiction of the practice may lead to societies where hyper-individualism takes root and group solidarity is very difficult to revive. But perhaps, that is a goal:
    “In the early days of Europe’s darkest age, the Church waged a tireless war against the clans of Western Europe. The first step was broadening the doctrinal definition of incest to include marriage to almost all kin relations. Starting with the Synod of Agde in 517 AD, more than 15 synods on the subject were held in France, Spain, and Northern Italy over two centuries.

    In kingdoms where the Church was strong, kings were eager to incorporate the new Catholic understanding of marriage and incest into their laws. By the end of the seventh century, legislation against incestuous marriages was written into the Merovingian, Visigothic, and Lombard legal codes. No one, however, was as active a promoter of the new understanding as Charlemagne. He decreed that all prospective spouses must undergo interviews by local bishops or priests before they were allowed to marry. These churchmen would investigate the family relations of both parties; if they were found to violate Church statutes, Charlemagne’s decrees empowered authorities to end the marriage. The power of the clans was being destroyed one marriage at a time. What followed was one of the greatest social transformations in European history: Western Europeans stopped thinking of themselves as kinsmen and started thinking of themselves as neighbors.”
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-the-catholic-church-created-our-liberal-world/

    Anyway, just some more points to add to the initial point you made.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  385. TLDR

    They all have to go back to their countries. Islam does not belong in the West.

  386. @peterAUS

    Actively participate, as a part of the …ahm…”International peace effort” against Serbs in order to deliver, as per mid-term interests of The Empire in the region.

    Do you mean similar to 1995 how the Croats teamed with the Muslims in Bosnia with Operations such as Maestral?

    That sounds much more like how I outlined option 1, although the outcome of defeat for Serbs in such a conflict certainly involves the killing of thousands of Serb civilians (and soldiers obviously) and then driving hundreds of thousands of Serbs to the East side of the Drina (The 1 million number of Serbs in Srpska would be cut down by having refugees flee to Serbia and across the planet before the final Muslim-NATO Operation Flash or Storm style blow to Bosnian Serbs). All in an “International Peace Effort”, of course.

    Depends, entirely, on The Empire. Its capability to project military power in the region.

    That’s what is interesting and difficult to predict with certainty though. In some ways, “The Empire” has been blunted, is experiencing a lot of strain and overextension since 1995 when it “intervened” against Serbs then, but it is still functional and practically does hold the capability to project military power in Bosnia and the Balkans.

    There are many variables and elements at play. It’s surprisingly not absolutely impossible to imagine Srpska victory and union with Serbia. The global geo-political situation certainly isn’t as bad as it was in 1995 or the 1990’s in general.

    Still, what’s actually even worse now is that Serbia and Bosnia are directly encircled and surrounded by openly NATO states, which wasn’t the case in 1995. This makes cheeky Russian 1999 Pristina Airport antics completely impossible. It would only be realistic to expect a few more volunteers, weapons, passive and military aid from the Russians, along with diplomacy (most probably even less than all of this from China), of course.

    Still, the most important and promising thing is that it seems there is a serious lack of will on the part of the populations of Western countries (and even some politicians) for a bombing and even boots on the ground military campaign against Republika Srpska.

    I would hope Trump may possibly allow Republika Srpska to secede and not militarily attack them, similar to how he allowed the Turks to do their thing in Syria (A similar situation with the return of the Serb Army to Kosovo is also theoretically possible), or at least delay any military action.

    Macron’s Bosnia is a “timebomb” remark is as true as it is promising in that it indicates that he’s aware of the reality of Bosnia and maybe isn’t interested in trying to artificially hold it together? It would seem to fit in well with his already clear contempt for the Balkans and rejecting EU enlargement of Albania and North Macedonia.

    I think the reaction of Trump is really the greatest uncertainty in this whole scenario. This assumes that Trump gets a 2nd term from 2020-2024, which is a more than reasonable assumption and actually seems to be what will happen. Trump has never said anything about Bosnia publicly, but he did say off-hand as a dog whistle to Serbs that he’s sorry for the bombing over Kosovo, which seems promising.

    Officially the US military left Bosnia around the mid 2000’s, if i recall correctly. Apparently in formal terms there are now only around 600 international European troops:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Althea

    That obviously ignores all the Islamists, Jihadists and other terrorists that are either already in Bosnia or could easily arrive there.

    For instance, I’m starting to believe that the “refugees” in Bihac are really a bunch of Islamist warriors (explains why Croatia is dumping them into the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, not Srpska) waiting for the moment of this potential war to be used as cannon fodder against Serbs.

    There are also many other unpredictable dynamics involved as well. It simply strikes me as bizarre that Iran still has a presence in Bosnia and would support Bosnian Muslims along with the USA against Serbs. Still, I guess Islamic radicalism doesn’t really care for realpolitik. Given everything going on in the Middle East now, who knows what Israel would do.

    The depressing thing is that pro-Serb powers like Russia and China would not be able to do much (I imagine the most they could do would actually be to retaliate in some other region of the world). Unfortunately, other potential pro-Serb elements like Greece or Orban’s Hungary would also have a minuscule impact upon any outcome (probably only delay military “intervention”, if even that).

    Overall, the probabilities are heavily stacked against Serbs. If I had to give numbers I would describe it as most probably around 70%-30% against Serbs, optimistically at 60%-40% (certainly no more), and 80%-20% or possibly even 90%-10% against Serbs. Of course, the odds have almost always been heavily stacked against Serbs throughout history, especially in the last 100 years or so, meaning there’s nothing new about facing such difficult scenarios for Serbs.

    This is all why I would prefer it if Milorad Dodik could hold back and successfully defend Srpska without being forced into an unfavorable war. If he could just secede Srpska from Bosnia and somehow unite it with Serbia without a war at some point in the future, that would be ideal. In reality though, the longer he can successfully protect Srpska without having to go to war, the better. Time is on the side of Serbs.

  387. @peterAUS

    Almost impossible:

    2: Use the opportunity to take Mostar/West Herzegovina and expand Croatia’s territory to unite with your ethnic kin at the expense of Bosnian Muslims?

    Agree.

    I can only see the Croats doing this if the Serbs get away with successfully separating Srpska from Bosnia and even uniting it with Serbia. Even then, I’m not sure whether Croats would have the balls to do it. In any other scenario or situation, it is of course completely out of the question for them to even dare to think about that, let alone make practical steps in that direction.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  388. Avianthro says:

    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H. L. Mencken

    (The billboard in The Saker’s article shows us one of those hobgoblins used in practical US-elite-led, AIPAC and Jewish media guided politics…Sharia Law.)

    All religions do get twisted and warped, interpreted to form a basis for political divisiveness. They, or more precisely not the religions themselves but actually just interpretations of religious writings, are used as us-vs-them labeling tools in political power struggles which are actually struggles for economic power (resource control).

    After all, let’s not forget that the best any of us can do with any religion is say that this is our understanding/interpretation of what it is. What it really is… I’d bet even the original prophets, if they could materialize before us today, would be hard-put to fully explain all of that in a way that all of us would fully and consistently understand…the basic problems of communication and semantics.

    Let’s then say that Islam is the whole set of all the various Quranic (and Haditz) interpretation-followers…some threats and some (the vast majority) not. There are multitudes of interpretations among all the Abrahamic and most other religious groups.

    Terms like Muslim, Christian, and Jew are almost too general to be of any real semantic value.

    The Saker is 100% correct: Islam itself, whatever it really is, is definitely not a threat to America.

    As one who lives in the world’s largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, I know for certain that the vast majority of my fellow Muslims here are not a part of any interpretation-follower group that is of any threat to America, and they’re not a bunch of murderous raping liars either. For sure, there are others (a tiny minority here and yes, larger numbers elsewhere in the world) who do see America as an enemy, and rightly so, considering America’s totally immoral and inhumane behavior in its quest to dominate the earth’s resources, especially oil.

    AMERICA’S OWN BEHAVIOR IS THE GREATEST THREAT TO AMERICA: Continuing dependence on oil resources whose greatest reserves happen to be in lands inhabited by people who happen to be labeled as Muslims and follow various interpretations of Islam, continuing support for Israel even though this support is totally hypocritical in light of Israel’s values versus those in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights (Why do we really continue to support Israel? It’s a beachhead quasi-friendly nation strategically located relative to those oil reserves and we felt sorry for the Jews post- WW2.), making lie-based wars and regime changes against nations of Muslim-labelled people driven by our oil dependency and killing millions of innocent people there who once had no grudge at all against us…

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  389. yurivku says:
    @Cyrano

    And who do those 2 nations have as their closest relatives? Scoundrels like the Ukrainians and the Croats.

    Yes, that’s an ugly truth. You can add here Poles and some other southern “brothers”.

  390. @Ron Unz

    Yes, it is mainly a Shia thing. You can see pictures of Ali all over the Shia world, but pictures of the prophet Muhammad are not uncommon either, especially in Iran. Here is one from the National Museum of Iran :

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9N-THdG4vIfwqRn99t9QS3t2EfwUZnOfvtEgnlE-VAQlaz0gmag&s

  391. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You are obviously on the wrong side of history with a pro-Serb agenda.At present Bosnia is in a sate of crisis and no one can predict the future.It is the height of idiocy to ask hypothetical questions.One thing I can guarantee you is that the Republika Srpska will never secede from Bosnia because the international community would never allow it-get used to that just as with the reality that Kosovo is lost to Serbia forever,and rightly so.Poor fellow,you are yourself a victim of Serb indoctrination-I would be more than willing to deprogram you but it will take some time.Had you bothered to do your homework you would not ask dumb questions.The Croats were poised to take the capital of the criminal Serb entity Banja Luka in 1995,but the U.S. threatened to bomb Croat forces if they continued their offensive,fearing a refugee crisis.Banja Luka would have fallen within hours.The Serbs fled like rabbits before the Croat drive and abandoned dozens of guns,tanks,etc.Groups of Serb soldiers armed to the teeth surrender to lone Croat soldiers.As I stated,Im willing to aid you in your reeducation.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  392. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You are totally out of your depth in regards to the matter-akin to someone aspiring to write a book on the War of the Austrian Succession without consulting Austrian or even Prussian sources.The Serbs from Croatia were not cleansed but departed in accordance with a prearranged plan of evacuation to draw Serbia into the war.The first to leave in their Mercedes filled with loot was the criminal Serb leadership of the so-called Krajina.I do not have the time do do your homework for you-some 30 years have passed and had you read anything of note,you would not be spouting such utter garbage.At least take the time to read what I wrote here previously and try to debunk me.Most of the Croat civilians murdered under Serb occupation were killed in 1991.,when the Yugo Army was in cahouts with Serb insurgents,for one,You cant even get your basic facts straight.The bottom line is that in your ignorance,you are condoning evil at its worst-spouting Serb mythology and propaganda.The worst enemies of the Serbs to this day is their own leadership and illiterate and propagandized fools like you.

    • Troll: TheTotallyAnonymous
  393. Pandour says: • Website
    @Cyrano

    Just carry on, we all need a good laugh now and then.

  394. @Pandour

    One thing I can guarantee you is that the Republika Srpska will never secede from Bosnia because the international community would never allow it

    Alright then, still, what do you think that Croatia should do about this if such a scenario did occur? What about the Bosnian Croat community, what should they do in such a scenario?

    The Croats were poised to take the capital of the criminal Serb entity Banja Luka in 1995,but the U.S. threatened to bomb Croat forces if they continued their offensive,fearing a refugee crisis.

    No proof the USA threatened to bomb Croat forces for starters and lol at “criminal Serb entity”. Everything else is half true. The reason why the USA decided upon initiating the Dayton Peace talks + agreement and didn’t allow all of the Bosnian Serbs to be ethnically cleansed to the east side of the river Drina (As the Krajina Serbs were already being forcibly expelled en masse because of Flash, Storm and everything since 1991, not to mention the Serbs that fled from Muslims in Bosnia) is because such a “refugee crisis” would leave Milosevic and Serbia (FR Yugoslavia) with no choice but to join the war of the Serb minorities for survival against Croats, Bosnian Muslims and the international coalition led by the USA. Just to get things clear, from 1992-1995 Serbia only provided every single form of possible support that it could to its co-ethnics, short of sending its army since it already withdrew its military from the territories on which those wars were happening because of international pressure back in 1992.

    Serbia had around 8 million people in 1995, meaning that an rapid 20% population increase (at least 1.5 million Serbs would flee in that scenario) of refugees (even of the majority ethnicity) would’ve crippled Serbia, it was already under strain from hundreds of thousands of refugees having fled thus far, and from devastating international economic sanctions that caused Serbia or FR Yugoslavia to have the 2nd largest hyperinflation in all of world history, btw. So that’s why allowing Flash and Storm to happen in Krajina-Slavonia and then deciding upon Dayton was chosen by the USA with the Jew Richard Holbrooke as their man on the ground making this decision.

    I would be more than willing to deprogram you but it will take some time.

    As I stated,Im willing to aid you in your reeducation.

    Be careful what you wish for. You may just end up getting re-educated yourself …

    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @Malacaay
  395. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    The more you know and unsurprisingly the more relevant it becomes to consider this hypothetical scenario:

    http://thesrpskatimes.com/special-session-to-defend-srpska/

  396. @Avianthro

    ’Murika forever wars against foreign lands,
    Because she covets things not given by His hand.

  397. Talha says:

    To the readers,

    I’m sorry. I mentioned Serbs and Croats earlier and now we have Slavs puking all over each other in the comments section.

    Lesson learned – I take full responsibility for being the catalyst for this bakwas.

    Again – apologies to all.

    Peace.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Pandour
  398. Saker is stridently Orthodox. I wonder if he is a Mason as some powerful leaders of the Orthodox were/are

    https://onepeterfive.com/tosatti-athenagoras-freemasonry/

  399. @AnonStarter

    It does exist also in Qatar in Barhrain, speaking of countries that I am personally familiar with.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  400. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Ethnic cleansing was something the Serbs engaged in Croatia and Bosnia with the aid of the so-called Yugo Army.From Bosanska Posavina alone 130.000 Croats were ethnically cleansed.Refugees resulting in a failed military enterprise can not be considered ethnic cleansing.From 1992-1995…1992, you write.The first act of Serbian aggression against Bosnia came with the destruction of the Croat village of Ravno by the JNA and Montenegrin reservists on Oct. 1st 1991.Here is a partial chronology of the early stages of the war in Bosnia-on April 1st 1992 Arkans paramilitaries from Serbia murdered 48 civilians in Bijeljina while the JNA blocked routes towards Čitluk,on April 4th the JNA and Serb forces shell Bosanski Brod,on April 7th the JNA conducts an air strike on Široki Brieg,on April 9th Serb forces captured the town of Zvornik which was first attacked by JNA tanks,etc.Prior to that JNA forces had occupied the town of Mostar for a month and terrorized the non-Serb population.The Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia inherited virtually the entire arsenal of the so-called JNA including hundreds of tanks and APCs,guns and aircraft,real candidates for victim-hood .According to incomplete documentation,2,028 Serbs from Serbia were killed in Croatia and Bosnia from 1991 to 1995.The other day in Novi Sad a monument was erected to Serbian general Mladen Bratić who was killed in the battle for Vukovar.The Croat leadership construed numerous American demands,including the mention of red lights as a threat of American air strikes if the offensive on Banja Luka continued.You need not concern yourself with details-all you need to know is that the Serbs in 1912 hopped on a train with the devil as engineer and the ride aint over yet.Dupes like you are on that train but you are too blind and ignorant to realize it Bon Voyage.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  401. Pandour says: • Website
    @Talha

    It might interest you to know that the Croat offensive to liberate its occupied territory and continue its advance into Bosnia saved the Bosnian Muslims from massacre and total occupation.For one,the town of Bihać was ready to fall with Serb tanks already in the streets-if not for Croat intervention events in Srebrenica would have paled in comparison.I know that murdered Croats during the war may not interest you but murdered Muslims at Serb hands might.Croatia also gave shelter to hundreds of thousands of Muslims ethnically cleansed by the Serbs from Bosnia

  402. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    Just like you guys stare at the Muslim world now, our grandfathers stared at you wondering; what the hell is wrong with these people?

    I’ve read a fair amount about and by Jinnah and that is definitely not the “vibe” I get from him. Now he presumably wasn’t your grandfather, but he is a not unrepresentative subcontinental Muslim of his day.

    Otherwise I’m not in disagreement with your arguments in this somewhat bizarre discussion.

    • Replies: @Talha
  403. Malacaay says:

    Who would have thought to see our old feuds popping up here on the Slacker’s propaganda piece. Haven’t skimmed through 400 posts except the last few the page transported me onto, but something tells me we won’t find any support for Muslimos among westerlings. Truth be told, except deviant sexual practices and behavior – which are all well-known and widely used among degenerate liberal kind anyways, Muslimos have nothing to offer westerlings. Fornication with animals? Liberal westerlings have been doing it for decades. Well, maybe some social acceptance of their deviant sexual practices would be nice, but then Muslimos cannot ever allow or welcome homosexualism for the faith strictly forbids it. There doesn’t seem to be anything in Muslim faith which would attract westerlings except fornication with animals, multiple wives and possibly marriage with pets and other animals (liberal degenerate westerlings would love that a lot, and Muslim faith doesn’t forbids it to my knowledge — so that’s something liberal westerling plague would find attractive no doubt). But Muslimos frighten them. If only Muslimos were victims, that would ease terror.

  404. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    your grandfather

    My folks are Sufi-scholars from Persia, so yeah – definitely not my grandfathers. My grandfathers were more the guys that were hunted down by the British for causing trouble. “Farangi” is not a term of endearment in our parts.

    not unrepresentative subcontinental Muslim of his day.

    I don’t know – secular Ismaili – that’s a stretch.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  405. Malacaay says:
    @Pandour

    For which Bosnians repaid by ethnically cleansing Croats. But you are Slovenian; why are you here bickering with Serbois, hmm? “Pandur” means policeman I believe. We Croats say “pulicjot.” Only you kajkavian Slovenians use that term “pandur.” You are simple-minded creature, policeman. Better stick to watching if someone goes through the red or doesn’t respect other traffic rules and signs. This is not for you. Too mentally strenuous for your kind you see. Anything beyond mental exert of watching and commenting soap operas is not good for you. Hobbits are delicate creatures, and mental realm is definitely not for them.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  406. Malacaay says:
    @Pandour

    Village Ravno is in Herzegovina, not Bosnia. Bosnia is a region just like Herzegovina is, hobbit; but unlike Bosnia where we have nothing ours, Herzegovina is all ours just like Rep of Serpska is Serbian. It’s a sad and unfortunate state of affairs Habsburgs and Austrian Ostrogoths brought us to, for Bosnia used to be Croat region. It was formed by Ban Boric, a Croat from Slavonia, and many of its populace came from Slavonia too. When the Turks were expelled, Habsburgs forbade expulsion of Muslimo population. Serbia too had many Muslimos, but Serbs mostly expelled them after the Turks were removed. Part which remained Christianized itself and easily assimilated back into Serb people. Pozega fall to Turks in 1537 (and that’s where the center of so-called “Sandjak Pozega” was; it was some Ottoman administrative division). Anyhow at the end of 16th century, ration between Christians and Muslimes in Pozega was 60:40 in favor of Muslimos. See how wuickly Muslimes converted Pozega city. Muslimes are plague. They have no place on Haemus Mons peninsula. There can be no peace until our sacred Christian sites are liberated and Turkish plague sent back to central Asia from where it came. Hobbits will play a little or no role in all that. It’s too big for you. Besides you are atheists and agnostics, that is pagans.

  407. Talha says:
    @Pandour

    I know that murdered Croats during the war may not interest you but murdered Muslims at Serb hands might.

    Look, I’m not callous about the situation. Like I said, I had a Croat report to me and he and I got along very well – even on the subject of religion. I was surprised to hear how some of the vocabulary he used for spiritual concepts derived from Islam or Sufism. Maybe that was just him, I don’t know.

    My wife and I were also in Kosovo (stunningly beautiful place), she was doing research work for a Muslim relief agency. When were there, when we passed by a Serb enclave and saw some kids, we stopped our van and handed out candy to them – they were reluctant at first, but – like all kids – the candy won over their curiosity. If it would have been Croat kids, I would have done the same.

    Now – the question is; if there are Serbs here that would not have given candy to Croatian kids or Croats that would not have given candy to Serbian kids in the same circumstance…then you have to ask yourselves what it means that a guy born in Karachi, in a team of Muslims being led around by a Syrian doctor would. Something to think about.

    I even know a white convert that fought in the war – very good, upstanding guy – traditional Muslim. Even though he fought the Serbs in battle, in one of our conversations about the simmering politics currently happening in that area, I remember him vividly stating; “There are many, many good Serbs.”

    It’s a tragedy what happened there and many innocent people on all sides lost their lives and each side committed some or more war crimes. My take – as an outsider – is that I generally take what was concluded in the international courts as a fairly good guideline. Is it perfect? No – hell no – but it’s the best anyone’s going to get out of the situation.

    All the bickering I see being kicked off by this subject keeps enforcing (at least for me) the idea that “white unity/solidarity” is a fantasy given birth to on the internet. That was the initial reason for me to bring it up.

    Right now, both Serbia and Croatia have good relationships with Turkey – despite the history. In fact, this is what the Serbian ambassador stated:
    “The most important development is that we overpassed 1 billion euros in trade volume and the goal is to reach two billion euros soon. In Serbia, we have a need for construction companies to build highways and skyscrapers and Turkish companies are more experienced and much cheaper compared to the Western companies. Serbian companies are not big enough to do these by themselves so Turkish companies can be sub-contractors. I see many opportunities in many fields for cooperation.”
    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/cooperation-with-turkey-serbias-national-policy-envoy/1398182

    So Serbs are willing to go to the Turks to build stuff reliably and cheaper than Western Europeans – the hits on “white unity/solidarity” just keep coming don’t they?

    Do with all this as you will.

    Peace.

  408. Pandour says: • Website
    @Malacaay

    I am Croatian.Pandours were a from of light infantry raised in Croatia in the 18th century serving in the Austrian Army.Today pandur in Croatia is slang for policemen,like cop in English.The word puljicot does not exist any where.The readers who dont even speak Croatian can easily confirm for themselves that its utter nonsense.You are a charlatan.You are not Croatian.

  409. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Do you mean similar to 1995 how the Croats teamed with the Muslims in Bosnia with Operations such as Maestral?

    No.

    I mean something as
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
    Overwhelming NATO air campaign as the main tool.
    Bosnian Muslim forces and Croatian forces as auxiliary.

    … defeat for Serbs in such a conflict certainly involves the killing of thousands of Serb civilians (and soldiers obviously) and then driving hundreds of thousands of Serbs to the East side of the Drina..

    Probably.

    …Depends, entirely, on The Empire. Its capability to project military power in the region.

    That’s what is interesting and difficult to predict with certainty

    Yep.

    …the most important and promising thing is that it seems there is a serious lack of will on the part of the populations of Western countries (and even some politicians) for a bombing…

    Yep.

    ..For instance, I’m starting to believe that the “refugees” in Bihac are really a bunch of Islamist warriors (explains why Croatia is dumping them into the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, not Srpska) waiting for the moment of this potential war to be used as cannon fodder against Serbs.

    Reasonable assumption.

    It simply strikes me as bizarre that Iran still has a presence in Bosnia and would support Bosnian Muslims along with the USA against Serbs. Still, I guess Islamic radicalism doesn’t really care for realpolitik.

    Don’t say. Islamic thing, I mean.

    Overall, the probabilities are heavily stacked against Serbs. If I had to give numbers I would describe it as most probably around 70%-30% against Serbs, optimistically at 60%-40% (certainly no more), and 80%-20% or possibly even 90%-10% against Serbs.

    Yep.

    Time is on the side of Serbs.

    Depends.

  410. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ….it is of course completely out of the question for them to even dare to think about that…

    Some of “them” do think about integration.
    “They” just know, at present circumstances, it would be suicidal to try to do it.
    The circumstance can change.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  411. @Plato's Dream

    Let’s just cut to the chase: it exists everywhere, the “oldest profession.”

    Today’s millennial Muslim world is not what it once was. However, more socially conservative regions/municipalities tend either to control or forestall the phenomenon entirely. It depends largely on the specific region/municipality we’re talking about.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Malacaay
  412. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Still howling, Serbo? If Serbo dogs were such good people, you would have never attacked other Christians alongside your fellow nomads, the Turks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rovine

    Look how many Serbo princes and dukes were there at the battle of Rovine attacking Wallachians (Romanins they call themselves nowadays).

    No need to worry regarding Republic of Serbska. Serbs and Croats are allies there as both are fighting against Bosnian colonization and economic exploitation. It’s not Bosnians or Alabanians you should ever be fighting or thinking of fighting though; rather we should all form league (even though they are Muslimos) and fight together against Turkish plague. There will be rewards if they do. If they are unwilling then we must start quarantining and forcing them into Christianity. I reckon Bosnians will be unwilling because they are Turks, but Albanians are real people and there is a chance they will join the league against Turkish plague.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  413. Malacaay says:
    @Pandour

    Pandur is a synonym for policeman in kajkavian part of Croatia, that is in Slovenian lands in western Pannonia (zagorje, prigorje, mudjumurje i podravina), but it’s not our word. We don’t use that world; only you kajkavian do and only you hobbits are proud stablemen of the Habsburgs; for all the rest of us Habsburgs were occupiers. I told you what our word for policeman is: pulicjot. Austrians created all that mess. First by allowing Serbois to settle, then by not expelling Muslimes. If 1/3 of Muslimes had been expelled when the Turks were, the other 2/3 would have been Christianized by now.

    • Replies: @Pandour
  414. Cyrano says:
    @Pandour

    You are not “pandour”, you are arrested development.

  415. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    There are two traditional wisdoms that I see lost in this day and age:
    1. A society that sins in secret is better than a society that normalizes sin.
    2. God is patient and withholds His justice upon a society as long as they sin in private and beseech Him for forgiveness; when they sin defiantly and publicly, they rend the very veil upon their sins that He has provided them and they can expect the veil from His justice to be rent in due time.

    The loss of metaphysical understanding has led to us even questioning what should be axioms*.

    Wa salaam.

    [MORE]

    *The old women of the mountains know this:
    http://youtu.be/uIpiHofuFDQ?t=371

  416. Malacaay says:
    @AnonStarter

    Muslime world will never be accepted beyond Levant zone into today Turkish occupied Anatolia. Anatolia is our ancient land and we plan to liberate it. Muslimes will be given chance to submit and accept Christianity; should they refuse, they will be expelled. Hardcore muslimes will be slaughtered. Muslimes think they can expand into our world. There must be a hefty price to pay for that delusion. Go, expand into sub-saharan Africa.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  417. Pandour says: • Website
    @Malacaay

    You are a pompous windbag,fraud and above all a moron.A supposed Croat who cant even speak Croatian. Cite a source for your imaginary word puljicot so all can see you for the idiot you are.You cant even differentiate between Slavic and Slovenian.The wiki article on the definition of pandur in part states-…it is still used coloquially in Croatia and the Western Balkans in a manner akin to the English word cop-.Hell,the last time I looked at the map Zagorje…Podravina was in Croatia,not Slovenia.I was born in Zagreb and have been all over Croatia and everywhere I have been the term pandur is slang for policeman.To reiterate cite your source for the idiocy puljicot it must be in at least one dictionary -it certainly is not on line.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
    , @Malacaay
  418. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    “Farangi” is not a term of endearment in our parts.

    Well, where you are currently, it now applies to you (or –my Urdu is nonexistent– to your neighbors), so maybe you’ll learn to like it?

    Joking aside, your grandparents’ inveterate opposition to the British regime was hardly what one might call a majority position either.

    I don’t know – secular Ismaili – that’s a stretch.

    Fair enough, but the day I see Pakistan disavow Jinnah is the day I’ll consider his opinions not worth considering. Anyway there’s some controversy about the exact form of Islam he followed.

    • Replies: @Talha
  419. Malacaay says:
    @Pandour

    You are not even able to repeat what has been written to you twice already: pulicjot, not “puljicot.” It’s a word which belongs to our land south of Korana river. Podravina, Zagorje, Prigorje and Medjumurje are all kajkavian Slovenian part of Croatia. You are mentally and behaviorally Slovenians, nothing like the rest of us (even Slavonians from eastern Pannonia who don’t understand your “jargon” which is not jargon at all but Slovenian language mixed with our Ijekavian and Ikavian language; it’s not mutually intelligible with our language). I knew you were kajkavian. I stated it on the get-go, have I not? That’s because I am very farsighted. You could say that I am very farsighted because I am not kajkavian hobbit.

    Anyhow, speaking about Zagreb, you kajkavians lost it to Croats a long time ago. Just in the 90s there were 400-500k ijekavian people added to Zagreb, whereas kajkavian Slovenians have shrunk to a minority. That’s a good thing. Kajkavian language and culture belongs to Slovenia. As for you being Croat, you cannot be a Croat if you speak Slovenian language. You need to let go Slovenian culture and language before you can become a Croat. Common sense, but hobbits chronically lack it.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  420. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    maybe you’ll learn to like it?

    “Farangi” is an interesting term. It’s a Persian cognate word for “Frank” and was generally used in the Persianate world to refer to the civilizational rot in Europe in the aftermath of the Roman Empire. As one scholar stated, the term doesn’t apply to European-descended people in general, but it’s used as a pejorative for a “materialistic kaafir who participates in the colonial project active or passive.”

    your grandparents’ inveterate opposition to the British regime was hardly what one might call a majority position either.

    Well, it was popular enough to kick them out eventually.

    his opinions not worth considering.

    His opinions should be considered, he was an important figure; he just wasn’t very representative of the Muslims of Pakistan. I’d say Iqbal has far more appeal across the spectrum of Pakistan; religious or secular (except for the hyper-secular, they worship at the altar of their Farangi idols). Iqbal is even appreciated in neighboring Iran for his Persian poetry; “Eghbal Lahori” they call him.

    Anyway there’s some controversy about the exact form of Islam he followed.

    Sure, but I know it wasn’t normative.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  421. @Talha

    metaphysical understanding

    Has the word metaphysical been declared racist yet, along with algebra and Shakespeare?

    Vital observation about sin (another forbidden word (hate speech, lowers self esteem)).

    Not only does ’Murika make almost every sin permissible, it teaches it to children and society. They flaunt it on all media (the Prince of the Power of the Air must be running out of bandwidth). Many churches now boast of it before God.

    If, according to Christ, better to hang a millstone around the child corrupter’s neck, what will be the judgment on society?

    • Replies: @Talha
  422. Jim says:

    If I get your point, the question is whether Sharia law is any worse for its adherents than is the empire’s system of “justice for its adherents?” On the other hand, it is probably a good idea for us to understand Islam in case we ever get a choice. Here’s a good start:

  423. @AaronB

    Wish we could say Islam is in decline, but that would be an odd interpretation of decline.

    Muslims are busily colonizing Europe and the uk, proliferating and demanding as both Christians and white Europeans more generally age and dwindle.

    Absent drastic change fairly soon, Islam will be the dominant religious and cultural force in Sweden first, then England, France, and the Benelux countries. Italy, Germany, Austria, are well on the way too.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  424. @Malacaay

    Uh huh.

    Get back to me when you manage to work it all out with your fellow slavs. If your disposition here is any indication, I don’t think the Turks will quaking in their boots anytime soon.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  425. @Talha

    Shame is preferable.

    Ihsan is superior.

    • Agree: Talha
  426. Talha says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    sin (another forbidden word (hate speech, lowers self esteem))

    “I know – like soooooo judgemental! Riiight?!

    Many churches now boast of it before God.

    Yeah, I’m pretty amazed at the number of rainbow flags I see on church entrances or their marquees while driving around.

    what will be the judgment on society?

    The best one can do is fight the good fight where they are able to and in the sphere they can influence; you won’t be asked about what was outside out your control.

    Peace.

  427. AaronB says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Islam may appear energetic from the standpoint of late, very late, European decadence, but it is no longer the great moral and military force it was at its apex.

    Its armies are continually in retreat, and the level of spirituality and morality is at a low ebb. The military ineffectiveness is a moral crisis – a lack of esprit, morale, leadership, and organizational capacity. All spiritual qualities. Muslim commanders leading from the rear are notorious – and caring little for their men. They try and compensate for this by showmanship and bravado – beheading hapless innocents who fall into their hands, making fiery speeches, launching rockets, etc.

    Being invited into Europe, and taking advantage of welfare and raping little girls, is not the same as the great moral force that stunned the world in the 8th century.

    Islam still retains greater energy than Europe – but it is visibly in decline, and in a downward slope. It is only 1,300 years old – when Christianity was at that age, it was at its peak – but, strangely, also about to enter a several centuries long period of break up and decline.

    Like Europe during the world wars, imminent decline is often preceded by a burst of energy.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  428. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    But people ask themselves (and yous) why on earth you went to Kosovo, why Muslim ‘relief agencies’ (Muslim Brotherhood) were in there? Only to give candies to Serb children? People ask themselves why Iranians and Hezbollah went to Yugoslavia (why the Turks were there is obvious)? Not to give candies to Serbs either, but bullets to Muslims (thousands of tones of weapons) through Croatia, to shoot Serbs, when they didn’t shoot them themselves.
    It’s not a ‘metaphysical’ question.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @Malacaay
    , @Talha
  429. Malacaay says:
    @AnonStarter

    We gave the Turks pretty good beating ourselves alone on occasions, I can only imagine what could united European armies do to Turkish dogs. Yes, we have no capacity to wage war against Turks alone – our resources are tiny, but together we can send Turks to central Asia easily.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Szigetvár

    See that casualty rate: between 20.000 and 35.000 dead Turks. 2.300 Croats alone managed to stop Turkish invasion of central Europa in 1566. Luckily military reality today is such that the bigger your army is, the more easily it falls down due to weapons of today. This is what happened a hundred years ago:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Balkan_War

    Turks have no hope of prevailing against us combined. I can tell you this much: if Muslimos ever had military superiority over us, you would go on the onslaught spree immediately… just like first Muslimos did after Muhammad had died.

  430. Malacaay says:
    @Seraphim

    Because Muslims ever wished to spread to Europe, but Asian invasive forces, be it Turkish or Iranian were always stopped. Iranians were exactly where Turks now are 2.500 years ago when a young leader called Alexander crushed that Asian invasive specie into pieces. They occupied Anatolia and part of Thracia just like Turks are nowadays. What are invasive Asian species, be it Turkish or Iranian, doing
    in our world?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  431. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    My wife and I went because she was evaluating a program that did work with families suffering from war trauma. The relief agency wanted to make sure that it was worthy of putting funding toward.

    The candy incident was something spontaneous.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  432. Malacaay says:
    @Pandour

    I should have pointed out earlier regarding our exchange that I am very proficient in cakavian dialect. Now knowing cakavian dialect I recognized one thing immediately: there is no such thing as cakavian dialect. The only 2 indigenous words in this dialect is interrogative pronoun “ca” and a single word formed from it (word is “nicakod”). Everything in this so-called dialect are amde of some Slovenian and Italian words, but the structure of the language is Ikavian-Ijekavian. That is our language: Ijekavian-Ikavian.

    The structure of these are the same, the difference emerges when spelling and saying some words. For readers here example would be word white. In our language white is called “bilo” in Ikavian and “bijelo” in Ijekavian. You see why it is called Ikavian or Ijekavian relative to the spelling of the word? In our lands south of Korana river (from borders with Slovenia in northern Dalmatia in Istria to the borders with Albania in the south really) these speeches are merging and fusing all the time, so they cannot be viewed separately. The only difference is in the spelling of particular words, so when the spelling is shorter with a vowel “i” between syllables of some words, we speak of Ikavian speech, while when the spelling is longer “ije” between the syllables of all words, we speak of Ijakavian. Ijakavian is much larger, Ikavian speech is really just a part of Ijekavian centered on particular words. I’ve never seen a language being called by a single interrogative word like ours has been. It’s a proof of foreign interference and meddling. Italics have had their hands in this I am sure, trying to form some “dialect” in “cakavian” with a single interrogative pronoun “ca” instead of “sto” or “kaj” so that Venetians could have some claims. Venetians or any other Italics have nothing “theirs” on eastern coast of Mare Adriaticum. That should be understood with crystal perfection.

    This is all Illyrian land and we share the sea with Italians. I speak cakavian, meaning I use interrogative pronoun “ca,” but I don’t consider it to be dialect of anything. Structure of the language we use is Ijekavian-Ikavian. Now difference between kajkavian Slovenian language and ours is immense. We cannot understand their speech. It’s not mutually intelligible regardless how they call that language by the name of interrogative word or any other. All this means that kajkavians in Croatia must stop using that part of Slovenian language and accept proper Croatian which is Ijekavian-Ikavian. Did you know that 3/4 of Zagorje kajakvian inhabitants don’t know official Croatian language, instead they speak on some kajakvian Slovenian form which the rest of us don’t understand? Yet they are part of our world. This situation with Slovenians should have been addressed a long time ago. That 2 million of them in Slovenia too. They must be forced to start using our language, for they can only be integrated into our world properly. There cannot be any integration with that language of theirs. It must be discarded and all of Slovenians put under proper cultural colonization. Ours, i.e. with Ijekavian-Ikavian language as the standard.

  433. Seraphim says:
    @Malacaay

    One reason would be that they wanted to capture as many women for their harems! That’s what their Koran and Hadiths promise the jihadis (here and in Paradise!).

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  434. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    “materialistic kaafir who participates in the colonial project active or passive.”

    Well, though, that’s rather a poor description of a) actual Franks and b) British (or native) soldiers and officers of the Imperial government. It’s certainly a good description of the higher ranks and important wheels in the British government, but if you take out the “kaffir” part it’s an equally good description of higher ranks and important wheels in the Pakistani government (you might have to take out “colonial” too– not before the ’70s though).

    Thanks for the elucidation, though, learning things like this is one reason I always enjoy talking with you.

    Well, it was popular enough to kick them out eventually.

    Was it? Participation in the British Indian army, which I would consider evidence of being not “inveterate” in opposition to the British government, was enormous, certainly dwarfing participation in things like the INA. I don’t like being forced into the position of a defender of the British regime, but the degree of active opposition to it is exaggerated in the public mind. Of course there were mass arrests during the “Quit India” movement, but even these were exceeded by army recruitment. And, again, even actual participation in things like Quit India did not argue a despising of Britain as such (it certainly didn’t in Gandhi’s case), but a desire not to be ruled from there.

    I should read more of Iqbal one of these days when I have more time. Wiki offers this quote from him which might be the sort of saying you were thinking of: The European war of 1914 was an outcome of the aforesaid mistakes made by the European nations in the separation of the Church and the State.

    But, again, given that Iqbal studied in England, visited it several times, and accepted a British knighthood, I wouldn’t count him as a despiser of it. Though I may be putting words into your mouth here, and though I’m sure you didn’t mean to imply that he despised England, the English, or the British, or was an inveterate opponent of theirs (which he certainly was not), I think people might possibly take it that way.

  435. Malacaay says:
    @Seraphim

    Indeed. Muslimes are like Africans — always seeking to get their hands on your women so they can defile and biologically ruin you: that is, kill you by destroying your biological distinctiveness. Turkish dogs are the worst Muslimes in that respect. Perhaps that is why Muslimes never went into Africa to conquer and spread Islam to Africans: because they never considered African women pretty or desirable.

  436. @AaronB

    This is precisely the perspective I’d like you to continue actively promoting in this forum.

    Nice work, counselor. Keep it up.

  437. @Pandour

    For one,the town of Bihać was ready to fall with Serb tanks already in the streets-if not for Croat intervention events in Srebrenica would have paled in comparison.

    You do realize that Fikret Abdic’s Bosnian Muslims fought along with the Serb forces at the siege of Bihac?

    Literally, the siege was initiated by Fikret Abdic’s forces since they were based around Cazinska Krajina and Fikret wanted to retake his capital city of Bihac back. Fikret Abdic was assisted by both Bosnian Serb and Krajina Serb forces. The siege failed because NATO refused to allow it to succeed and did everything it could to stop it including sanctions on the Serbs and bombing threats back in 1994. The NATO jew Wesley Clark even directly held meetings with Croat military officers before 1995 in order to scheme about how to prevent Bihac from falling into the control of Abdic and Serbs. The outcome of that siege had nothing to do with Srebrenica.

    It’s only yet another example of the almost endless ones that can be found about how Srebrenica was artificially used against Serbs (and still is).

    Croatia also gave shelter to hundreds of thousands of Muslims ethnically cleansed by the Serbs from Bosnia

    Lol no. I think you mean just Bosnian Croats. Just compare the number of Muslims that live in Serbia compared to those that live in Croatia. The facts speak for themselves (e.g. Majority Muslim city of Novi Pazar in South Serbia).

    Serbia gave shelter to most of Fikret Abdic’s Muslim followers. Somewhere between 70,000-100,000 Musilms fled to Serbia in 1995 from their other co-religionists simply because they were loyal to Fikret Abdic. I guess some could say the Fikret Abdic wasn’t a real Muslim because he wasn’t an extremist. Still, even though Fikret himself fled to Croatia, most of his followers fled together with Serbs from Operation Storm and Maestral, although Abdic’s Muslims fled because of Alija Izetbegovic.

    Fikret Abdic also actually won elections in Bosnia among the Muslim population and was more popular than Alija Izetbegovic among Bosnian Muslims before 1992, btw. If things turned out differently, it’s possible that Milosevic could’ve put Fikret Abdic as the governor or leader of Bosnia before 1992 and it would’ve all worked out well with “peaceful co-existence”, but Milosevic and Serbs in general failed on many different fronts by 1992. Alija Izetbegovic won because he was favored by the US Ambassador to Yugoslavia, Warren Zimmerman (a Jew), into withdrawing from the Carrington-Cutileiro peace-plan into starting that bloody, but in hindsight pointless and unnecessary Bosnian War (for the locals at least).

    Anyway, you should take the time to explain this to Talha since you’re eager to go on about how Croats are fond of Muslims:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmi%C4%87i_massacre

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Pandour
    , @Pandour
    , @Malacaay
  438. @Pandour

    Pandours were a from of light infantry raised in Croatia in the 18th century serving in the Austrian Army.

    True. It’s still important to note that Pandours and Grenzers were majority ethnic Serb infantry of the Habsburg Empire that fought against Turks. They fought in the area of the Krajina and militarized borderland of the Austrian Empire against the Ottomans from the 17th to the 19th century.

    • Replies: @Pandour
    , @Malacaay
  439. @Malacaay

    If only Ron Unz allowed the LOL button to be pressed more often. There are like another 6 LOL’s I want to use on the comments of you and Pandour but I’m unfortunately not able to really.

  440. Talha says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    you should take the time to explain this to Talha

    Trust me, I don’t need to have it explained; the one thing I am certain of is that all sides in that conflict have plenty of innocent blood on their hands, despite all of them claiming “we dindu nuffin’”.

    I just hope it doesn’t happen again.

    Peace.

  441. Seraphim says:
    @Malacaay

    Actually they went to Africa to take slaves in spade. The majority were young and girls for the harems and young boys to make them eunuchs to guard the harems. The males were taken for work in mines, in the fields and on galleys, or to be sold to European slave traders (all black slaves transported to America were captured by Muslims), Morroco, Tunisis, Lybia, Mauretania, Sudan, Turkey, Arabia.
    The French-Senegalese anthropologist, economist, and writer, Tidiane N’Diaye claims in his book “The Veiled Genocide” that “The Arab Muslims were the most murderous of all those involved in the slave trade”,”that the slave trade conducted mercilessly by Arab Muslim robbers and the jihad they simultaneously pursued had a far more devastating effect on black Africa than the trans-Atlantic slave trade”. In his estimation 29 million people were exported from black Africa as slaves – 12 million by the trans-Atlantic slave trade, 9 million by the trans-Sahara slave trade, and 8 million from the East African coast. N’Diaye was accused that he peddles the propaganda of European colonialism who hypocritically justified their conquests by the pretext of fighting the slave trade and slavery itself (they did indeed abolished slavery in their colonies).

  442. @Talha

    ‘…. When the Arab Muslims marched into Syria they were welcomed by the Syrians who saw the new rulers as saviors who freed them from the yoke of the Byzantines…’

    In time, the ‘Byzantines’ themselves would come to share this sentiment.

    When the fragments of the Byzantine Empire found themselves being alternately ruled by Muslim Turks and Catholic Western Europeans, the inhabitants coined the expression ‘better the Turk than the Frank.’

    As the Syrians had discovered before them, while Christians of a different confession were determined to suppress ‘heresy,’ Muslims tended to be indifferent as to precisely what brand of Christianity their subjects practiced.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Seraphim
  443. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Not true-At least 51 per cent of the Grenzer were Croatian-look at the regiments-Warasdiner Grenz,Sluiner Grenz,Oguliner Grenz,etc.There was also aa Wallachian Grenz regiment and a grenz regiment composed of members of the German minority.

  444. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    So what if Muslim factions were pitted against each other in the so-called Autonomous Region of Western Bosnia with Abdić as chief.The siege of Bihać had nothing to do with the fall of Srebrenica you say-how is that in any way relevant to the key issue of the Serb practice of murdering the population in towns and villages they captured.Bihać was on the verge of falling in 1995.I talked to the defenders.I was there.The Serb and Muslim trench-lines were within hand-grenade reach of each other.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  445. @Seraphim

    ‘…all black slaves transported to America were captured by Muslims…’

    There’s an untrue statement.

  446. @Seraphim

    ‘the slave trade conducted mercilessly by Arab Muslim robbers and the jihad they simultaneously pursued had a far more devastating effect on black Africa than the trans-Atlantic slave trade”. In his estimation 29 million people were exported from black Africa as slaves – 12 million by the trans-Atlantic slave trade, 9 million by the trans-Sahara slave trade, and 8 million from the East African coast. ‘

    Note that over the span of time in question, this could hardly have a ‘devastating’ effect. Compared to death tolls from other causes — epidemics, warfare, famine, etc — 29 million spread over a millennium would be an almost trivial loss.

    Indeed, since the slaves were at least often captives taken in inter-tribal wars who would otherwise have been put to death in annual potlatches, it’s questionable if there was any demographic effect at all. The income to be gained from selling captives may have encouraged more inter-tribal warfare, but that’s speculative.

    The fact of the matter is that more advanced civilizations usually extract labor from less advanced areas — typically by slaving. When Northern Europe was the backwater, slaves flowed from it to first Rome and then to the Arab world. When it was Africa, the slaves flowed from Africa. Right now, labor is still flowing from the Third World to the First World. They volunteer now, and they’re paid, but the principle is the same.

    Slaves were going to come out of Africa. That was sure as snow melting in the Spring. All that was necessary was the ability to transport them and a use for their labor.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Talha
  447. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Simply uncanny.Lol you mean Bosnian Croats you wrote.Up to the end of July 1993 alone Croatia sheltered 366,971 refugees from Bosnia and Hercegovina 70 per cent of the Muslim.Croatia also sheltered 31.449 Croat refugees from Serbia,predominantly from Vojvodina,who fled from Serb terror.The killing of Croats in Serbia began in 1991-in the v. of Morovići Serb paramilitaries killed brothers Mate and Ivica Abjamović on Oct. 21st,in Šid they killed Stjepan Herceg on Nov. 11th,in Sot on Christmas day they killed Joisp Janiček,in the village of Kukujevci husband and wife Jozo and Ana Matijević and their 16-year old son were taken from their homes and murdered,etc..The number of Croats murdered in Serbia up to 1994 runs into the dozens in a country in which no military operations took place.Not having even the slightest idea of the number of Muslim refugees in Croatia during the war is in itself enough to totally disqualify you from any serious discussion on events in former Yugoslavia from 1991-1995.

  448. @Talha

    It’s a tragedy what happened there and many innocent people on all sides lost their lives and each side committed some or more war crimes. My take – as an outsider – is that I generally take what was concluded in the international courts as a fairly good guideline. Is it perfect? No – hell no – but it’s the best anyone’s going to get out of the situation.

    Complete garbage. If you take the Hague and ICTY seriously, it basically means you have an anti-Serb perspective.

    Trust me, I don’t need to have it explained; the one thing I am certain of is that all sides in that conflict have plenty of innocent blood on their hands, despite all of them claiming “we dindu nuffin’”.

    I don’t claim Serbs “dindu nuffin”, btw. I claim that they “did the least” and that their position was, and still is, by far the most correct and morally righteous.

    I just hope it doesn’t happen again.

    Dream on. The current order of the Balkans is untenable. It is theoretically possible that some things are changed peacefully, but in order for anything of substance to change in the Balkans, violence is almost always the norm.

    If you are genuinely interested in peace, you should tell Bakir Izetbegovic and his allies to stop trying to get rid of Republika Srpska and give up on trying to impose Muslim rule over Serbs. You should also tell the Americans to hurry up, disband Camp Bondsteel, give up on their fake country of Kosovo project and just go home already.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Talha
  449. @peterAUS

    Don’t say. Islamic thing, I mean.

    My bad. Don’t want to accidentally offend 21st century Western norms and even legal standards of “hate speech”, now do I?

    Some of “them” do think about integration.
    “They” just know, at present circumstances, it would be suicidal to try to do it.
    The circumstance can change.

    True. The Bosnian Croats don’t even have their own entity and an ethnic leader or representative that can effectively at least represent, if not actively work on their interests. They have a lot of work to do in order to ditch Zeljko Komsic and get Dragan Covic back into some position of power and authority. In general, they have a lot of work to do.

    It’s a bit disappointing though, since I was hoping to logically assess things and reach the conclusion that their potential separatism and actions might significantly help Serb interests in Bosnia, but it will really have a minimal and probably even negligible impact on the affairs of Bosnian Serbs.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  450. @Malacaay

    Still howling, Serbo? If Serbo dogs were such good people, you would have never attacked other Christians alongside your fellow nomads, the Turks.

    Look how many Serbo princes and dukes were there at the battle of Rovine attacking Wallachians (Romanins they call themselves nowadays).

    I really don’t think I need to explain that after the 1389 Battle of Kosovo that the son of Prince Lazar who led Serbia and the many other Serb lords of the Serbian territories became vassals of the Turks. Being someone’s vassal and an ally are two very different things. There’s usually little choice in the former compared to the latter.

    The Serbian lords used the first opportunity they had to get out from being under the Turks but by the time they had even a bit of success, it was too late by the mid 15th century. This is demonstrated at things like the actions of the Serb detachment at the 1402 Battle of Ankara and the manipulations of Serb lords in the early 15th century Ottoman Civil War.

    No need to worry regarding Republic of Serbska. Serbs and Croats are allies there as both are fighting against Bosnian colonization and economic exploitation.

    Interesting. You certainly have a different opinion on this matter than your co-ethnic Pandour. For some reason though, you seem to think he is a Slovenian?

    Still, you should directly state what you would think about Milorad Dodik seceding Srpska from Bosnia and Herzegovina and it pursuing an effort to join Serbia. That is, what you think the state of Croatia and Bosnian Croat community should try to do in such a scenario. It seems that unlike Pandour, you would be more open to aiming for the option of uniting West Herzegovina and Mostar with Croatia, instead of teaming with Bosnian Muslims and a potential “international intervention” against Serbs?

    It’s not Bosnians or Alabanians you should ever be fighting or thinking of fighting though; rather we should all form league (even though they are Muslimos) and fight together against Turkish plague. There will be rewards if they do. If they are unwilling then we must start quarantining and forcing them into Christianity. I reckon Bosnians will be unwilling because they are Turks, but Albanians are real people and there is a chance they will join the league against Turkish plague.

    The parts in bold outline the reality of the situation.

    First, Serb geo-political and ethno-territorial interests are most concerned and concentrated on Bosnia and Kosovo for reasons that should really be obvious (you can inform yourself some more if you are not familiar with Serb-“Muslimo” and Serb-Albanian conflicts). Bosnian Muslims and Albanians would not be willing to join an anti-Turkish league for reasons that should also be obvious. In fact, they are actually very likely to team with the Turks, as they are already doing so to some degree. After all, in the future anti-Turkish “crusade” or whatever you’re imagining, a desirable step would surely be to isolate the Turks or simply sideline any of their likely allies. So it means dealing with Bosnian Muslims and Albanians would be the most urgent issue for you to deal with.

    As for a “league against Turkish plague”, it is simply not in Serb interests to join an anti-Turkish coalition. As far as Serbs are concerned, Turks have been gone since 1913 (end of 1st Balkan War) and they have been almost irrelevant to Serbs since then (Turkey’s actions in Bosnia from 1992-1995, and as a NATO member in 1999, were insulting and mildly problematic though). Some of the things that the Turks have been doing since the 1990’s have actually been indirectly good for Serbs. They really aren’t going to be an issue unless they decide to do something seriously problematic or make themselves unwelcome in certain ways.

    Anyway, any potential “league against Turkish plague” is first and foremost the business and concern of those who neighbor or are close to the Turks. That is, Greeks, Bulgarians, Armenians, Georgians, Russians, Isrealis/Jews, Lebanese and so on. Any serious anti-Turkish coalition would have at least any 3 of those countries being a part of it. I sympathize with the Greeks and Armenians due to the outcome of certain events that happened from 1914-1922 and Cyprus 1974, but it is not directly my business.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
    , @Malacaay
  451. @Malacaay

    I almost forgot to ask you, what are your opinions of Jews and Israel, btw?

    You clearly have well thought out opinions (regardless of how true they are) on “Muslimos”, “Serbois”, “Italics”, “Anglos”, Africans and “nomadic plague” …

  452. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Those refugees of yours who came to Croatia weren’t fighting anyone. There has never been more craven kind than them. Those were not the people who could fight anyone, and they didn’t fight anyone. Serbo stories about them being “border guards” and whatnot are just Serbo stories. Could as well be why you lost so badly: you relied too much on your stories. When the time came for them to prove their worth, they proved to be utter lies. That said, have you noticed that Habsburgs weren’t fighting the Turks much. Magyars did more fighting, and we still more than them. It was the Turks who were eager to fight Habsburgs, while Habsburgs were ever ready to send delegation and pay annual tribute for peace treaty. It was such pathetic state that it couldn’t beat you Serbois.

    Speaking of Serbois, here is something to gaze at:

    People will notice extreme level of backwardness in the provided video above which can only be found in African and Muslim countries. That is Serbian culture people. Now you know why these nomads are so eager to infiltrate and take over other countries like their fellow nomadic plague the Turks have done. That is In accordance to its “antifascist” creed Serbo Yugoslav officer was making some political statements against Ustase. They even brought some UN African peacekeepers probably lured with roasted goat or sheep feast as a payment for making statements and saying words Africans don’t understand. But later on you can see in there those proofs of glorious Serbo bravery where Yugoslav general Novakovic run over fleeing column of Serbian civilians in order to save himself and his Yugoslav soldiers. In the end of the video there was Serbo festival where they celebrated taking over Vukovar and committing Ovcara massacre. Serbs are backward, senseless and stupid people.

  453. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    From what I see there are 145.000 Bosnians living in Serbia, 142.000 of which live in Sandjak region…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandžak

    … between Serbia and Montenegro (Novi Pazar as the biggest city of Sandjak alone has 77.000 Bosnians). Croatia has 31.000 Bosnians. Not sure about the relative ethnic composition of Bosnia and Herzegovina, but Republic of Serbska has 17.000 Croats and 150.000 Bosnians, while the rest of c. 1 million are the Serbs. Serbia has 57.000 Croats. Croatia has 186.000 Serbs. There are no demographic details and stats regarding federation between Bosnia and Herzegovina, but from what we know there are around half a million Croats 90% of which live in Herzegovina and 1.5 million Bosnians all of which live in Bosnia. What about it? You want to make a point that Serbia has 145.000 Bosnians 95% of which are probably Muslim while Croatia has 31.000 possibly somewhat lesser composition of Muslims there as some percentage of them are of atheistic non-religious “persuasion” while all of them consider themselves Bosnians by nationality? Is that you point, you have more Muslimos and they don’t think of themselves as Serbois, hmm? It’s not our problem. Had you not terrorize them, maybe they would have thought of themselves as being part of Serbian nation instead of Bosnian. You did it to yourself. I read somewhere that family of the father of Bosnian nation is from Belgrade originally. Izetbegovic family fled across the Drina river instead following Turks southward when they were expelled from Serbia. That is probably truth. How else could one explain those Muslimo hatred for Serbia specifically. There must be a history, a rich one for that matter, behind all that. Somehow Serbois managed to turn everyone around themselves into hating them, even their Orthodox “brothers” as I mentioned earlier. Nomads will do that. Take Turks for example. There is no more hated kind than them in the whole world. Their neighbors hate them passionately, and everyone who has ever had contact with that blighted people contracts passionate enmity for them, as they are such dishonest, lying, deceiving, thieving, plundering and murdering kind that everyone in contrast appears likeable. Bosnian mujaheddins were cutting off heads of Croatian soldiers and civilians alike, playing football with severed heads. They also committed many massacres of Croatian civilians, but they were “victims” in this story so they were all acquited. Anyhow, Serbo, it is known who Muslimos are just as it’s known who Serbois are. You have been around for some time. In the end, nothing is new under the Sun.

  454. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Serbo, when did your Serbo lord Prince Marko become Turkish vassal? Some +15 years before Kosovo battle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko

    Albanians have no love for the Turks like you do, and they do seem to remember some Illyrian origins so that leaves hope they will join us and eventually Christianize themselves. You have no interest in being anti-Turk? Here again we find the proof of Serbo Sarmatian nomads not belonging to this part of the world. Either you are for the native interests or for the invasive specie of nomadic Turks. Turks are holding Constantinople, Thracia, Troy, Bythinia and other sacred places of ours occupied still. Imagine if Meka or Medina was occupied by Christians? How would that look like, Serbo? Turks are no problem of Russkies, but ours. Armenians are welcomed to join the fray as they probably will for their desire for justice is great no doubt. We all wish to see Turkish plague destroyed. Turkish plague came from central Asia and that is where it belongs to. Such petty people would fight over crumbs while leaving their fellow nomads to feast on our stolen treasure. Perhaps you are some masonic agentur, operative or activist and have interest in promoting masonic interests which leave Turskih plague in possession of our sacred places, hmm? You are from Murica are you not? No Serbo would ever take that name as you have.

  455. Talha says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    If you take the Hague and ICTY seriously

    I don’t take it super seriously. I know that this guy will never see a trial for what he just admitted openly before the world:

    I claim that they “did the least” and that their position was, and still is, by far the most correct and morally righteous.

    Everyone claims this. Now, if you have a source to a neutral and unbiased, third-party institution or organization that did the studies and has all the stats of who did what and where, please link it – especially to the conclusion section. I’m willing to give it the 5-10 minutes out of my life that I feel it deserves. Please don’t waste my time with dindu sources.

    If you are genuinely interested in peace, you should

    Yes, I see, basically support giving the Serbs everything they are asking for…(sigh).

    Politics doesn’t work like this. There need to be compromises and settlements. I don’t know, perhaps come to the international community with something like “we want most of Republika for most of Kosovo (details to be hashed out)”. Republika is about twice the area of Kosovo, so you actually end up with more land than before. Perhaps that will get the ball rolling.

    Or you can shout at random Pakistani-born guys living in Illinois over the internet. Your call.

    Peace.

  456. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    The fact of the matter is that more advanced civilizations usually extract labor from less advanced areas — typically by slaving.

    The more you study pre-modern history, the more the truism dawns on you; you knew which civilization(s) were the alpha and for how long by the direction of the flow of slaves. It’s literally that simple.

    The income to be gained from selling captives may have encouraged more inter-tribal warfare, but that’s speculative.

    It did – and an attendant arms race. This is probably one of the best quick explanations of the phenomenon:

    Which is expected – as you mentioned; simple market forces in an environment where human beings were considered legitimate property. A contributing factor to the level of Viking raids were also due to the fact that they could get good coin in Byzantium or the Abbassid lands for any slaves they didn’t put to use themselves. Again – to be expected.

    Peace.

  457. Pandour says: • Website

    A microcosm of Serbian barbarism took place on Dec. 12th and 13th 1991 in Voćin in Croatia.The paramilitary members of of the Beli Orlovi unit from Serbia-what were they doing in Croatia -killed 42 Croat civilians and another 20 in surrounding villages and with explosives blew up the 500 year old Gothic church.In Voćin itself 15 of the victims were women aged 57-65 and 11 men aged 60-84.The founder of the Beli Orlovi Vojislav Šešelj is alive and well today in Serbia.Hundreds of similar incidents with a nominal list of victims have been thoroughly documented in the Serbian aggression on Croatia,Bosnia and Kosovo but after nearly 30 years Serbian apologists spout their conspiracy theories and other nonsense.In Croatia the Serb aggressors destroyed 121 Catholic churches,17 monasteries and 88 chapels while 1,200 sacred objects were damaged-a clear indication of what sort of savages one was dealing with No,there was no Vatican-Komitern conspiracy to destroy Serbia-a fantasy still in vogue in Serbia today in many circles-nor a Jewish-American conspiracy,bla,bla,bla.The Serbs in comparison to the death and havoc they wrought from 1991 to 1999 fared extremely lightly during the NATO bombing campaign for which they should be thankful.

  458. Anon[949] • Disclaimer says:
    @Flint Clint

    Your rethoric will gain if you start writing instead of speaking your comments.

    What is good is twice good if it is brief.

  459. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    Muslims tended to be indifferent as to precisely what brand of Christianity their subjects practiced.

    Yup – many weird Christian sects moved into Muslim lands for that protection. For instance:
    “Instead Nestorians found sanctuary under Islamic rule where their doctrines were closer to those of the Muslims…the persecution of more extreme heresies continued. They included the Paulician sect, which was brutally suppressed by the Byzantine authorities…At the start of the 11th century a related sect called the T’ondrakeci was still recorded, many of its surviving remnants fleeing to Islamic territory where some of its followers, the supposedly ‘sun worshipping’ Areworik fought for Damascus during the 12th century…In most places, however, Muslims were outnumbered by local Christian communities though the latter, mostly being adherents of non-Orthodox, non-Greek churches, tended to support their Mulsim overlords or at least to remain neutral in the Muslim struggles against the Byzantine Empire.”
    Manzikert 1071: The breaking of Byzantium

    And the inverse is also true – for instance, two particulars:
    1. Ahmadiyyah/Qadianis – who rose within the time of the British Raj
    2. Nation of Islam – who rose up within the US

    Little doubt that both of these groups would have been repressed (for their belief in a new prophet) if not completely eliminated when they arose if they were located under a Muslim sovereign.

    Reminds me of how a Muslim family still holds the key to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher because various Christian groups would otherwise be fighting over it:
    “Yet, few know that it is a Muslim who opens and closes the only door to this holiest of Christian sites. In fact, it’s two Muslims: one man from the Joudeh family and another man from the Nuseibeh family, two Jerusalem Palestinian clans who have been the custodians of the entrance to the Holy Sepulchre since the 12th century…To this day, coexistence among the several Christian churches sharing the Holy Sepulchre is a delicate one. Catholic, Greek, Armenian, Coptic, Syriac, and Ethiopian Orthodox monks have resorted to fists more than once to defend their respective denomination’s rights and privileges in the church, as defined in an decree by the Ottoman Empire, known as the Status Quo of 1853.”
    https://www.ibtimes.com/who-guards-most-sacred-site-christendom-two-muslims-1161517

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  460. @Talha

    ‘Please don’t waste my time with dindu sources.’

    When it comes to that neck of the woods, I’m not sure there’s any other kind.

    I once got interesting in goings-on with the Partisans and Chetniks in the Second World War.

    You could get as many versions of the truth as you liked.

    Of course everyone has a tilt — but in the Balkans it gets ridiculous.

    • Agree: Talha
  461. peterAUS says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Don’t want to accidentally offend 21st century Western norms and even legal standards of “hate speech”, now do I?

    Winning strategy…………………………………….

    It’s a bit disappointing though, since I was hoping to logically assess things and reach the conclusion that their potential separatism and actions might significantly help Serb interests in Bosnia, but it will really have a minimal and probably even negligible impact on the affairs of Bosnian Serbs.

    Everything, except inability (for any reason imaginable) to deploy US Airpower in the region, will have

    a minimal and probably even negligible impact

    there.

  462. Malacaay says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    You should know that unification is going to happen anyway. Croats are held against their will in that international protectorate and they have the right to join whoever they wish, the same as Serbs do. It’s no Croat fault that Bosnians never wanted to assimilate either into Serbian or Croatian nation, instead it only ever wished to create it own. It can, but not with us supporting them, paying for them, representing them, enduring their attempts at colonization, etc. If they wish to be their own nation they should built it of their own people, not seek from us support or try to colonize or assimilate our people because they are too weak and stupid to build anything of their own. Their behavioral characteristics are Turkish through-and-through. Only Turks occupying Anatolia are more dishonorable, treacherous, deceitful and capricious kind than them. Stupid too. You can think of them as western Turks who took on Christian symbols of representation, for that’s exactly what fleur-de-lis of Kotromanic house stood for. Carrying fleur-de-lis Christian symbol in Holy Trinity order (pair of three), the banner under which Kotromanic state Bosnia was killing Turks and Muslimes doesn’t seem to bother them at all, partly because they are ignorant and stupid and partly because they lack identity; not being able to carry Turkish one openly, they desperately need some. It’s a shame for they are Caucasian European people and don’t belong to Muslimo world, but they are not willing to assimilate or possibly could with that Turkish culture and Muslim religion, but also under liberal atheistical “cultural” setting as it proved itself to be the case. Instead of assimilating, they opted for creation of their own nation under atheistical communist-libtardism, thus fracturing this part of the world further. That is libturd-communistic masonic legacy: sheer imbecility, utter lunacy and total incompetence. A word catastrophic comes to mind. That is masonic legacy. Liberty, equality, fraternity. This motto has plagued the world more than anything ever did.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  463. Malacaay says:

    What I think Christian world ought to do is occupy Mecca and Medina and make our churches there. Muslimes are occupying our sacred places and building their filthy mosques on our sacred ground, so it’s only right that we should return the favor.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  464. Seraphim says:
    @Colin Wright

    The actual expression (almost certainly apocryphal) was “”I would rather see a Turkish turban in the midst of the City than the Latin mitre” (Greek: κρειττότερον ἐστὶν εἰδέναι ἐν μέσῃ τῇ Πόλει φακιόλιον βασιλεῦον Τούρκου, ἢ καλύπτραν λατινικήν) and was attributed to Loukas Notaras, the last ‘megadux’ (chief of the army) and ‘mesazon’ (chief minister) of the Byzantine Empire, under emperors John VIII Palaiologos and Constantine XI Palaiologos. It expressed the frustration of the “Byzantines’ at the refusal of the West to come to the rescue, unless they accept the Union of Florence.
    In any case it did not help him to much. Notaras and all captive dignitaries with their adult sons were executed by the magnanimous Fatih and all their wives, sons under fifteen years of age and daughters became the personal property of the Sultan. They have been offered the gracious opportunity to convert to Islam, and the youngest boy to become the sex-slave of the gay Sultan, which Notaras refused, preferring to see his sons dead than apostates (prefiguring the fate of the Wallachian Voivode Constantin Brâncoveanu 261 years later).
    The expression ‘Liever Turks dan Paaps (“Rather Turkish than Papist”), or ‘Liever Turksch dan Paus (“Rather Turkish than Pope”), was a Dutch slogan during the Dutch Revolt of the end of the 16th century (they have it now).

    • Agree: Malacaay
    • Replies: @Malacaay
  465. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Muslims were not ‘indifferent’ to what ‘brand’ of Christianity their subjects practiced.
    Nestorians ‘found sanctuary’ under Islamic rule because ‘their doctrines were closer to those of the Muslims’. They actually did not ‘found sanctuary’ under Islamic rule, which would imply that they were fugitives from Byzantine rule. They were rebellious Byzantine subjects, who were treated more leniently by the invading Muslims because of the perceived ‘closeness of their doctrines’ to those of the Muslims.
    Paulicians were not Christians at all, but a mishmash of anti-Church (Byzantine) Gnostic, Manichean and Judeo-Christian doctrines, which moved to Byzantium in the 7th century, benefiting of the protection of the Iconoclast Emperors, acting rebelliously and frequently allying themselves with the ‘Saracenes’ against the Empire. Manicheans were persecuted by the caliphs also.

    • Replies: @Talha
  466. Malacaay says:
    @Seraphim

    Greeks usurped Eastern Imperium for themselves, changing the culture and everything else of the Constantine’s city to their own cultural setting. It there wasn’t for the Greek stupidity, Turks wouldn’t have won and Eastern Imperium would still be around in the end. Then Greeks could have been removed from power and things changed into their rightful and official place.

  467. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Thanks for giving us the official Byzantine side of things.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  468. @Talha

    I don’t take it super seriously. I know that this guy will never see a trial for what he just admitted openly before the world

    Fair enough. I’ll just note that the Hague Tribunals and ICTY has a viciously anti-Serb bias and that the following people (just from the top of my head) will never be tried of anything even though they should have been by now:

    Mirko Norac, Branimir Glavas, Tomislav Mercep, Mladen Markac, Naser Oric, Ramiz Delalic, Ramush Haradinaj, Hashim Thaci and many more examples …

    Everyone claims this. Now, if you have a source to a neutral and unbiased, third-party institution or organization that did the studies and has all the stats of who did what and where, please link it – especially to the conclusion section. I’m willing to give it the 5-10 minutes out of my life that I feel it deserves. Please don’t waste my time with dindu sources.

    I first don’t understand what you mean by “neutral and unbiased” sources since such things basically don’t exist for almost any subject matter in world history. After all, Unz Review is partly one massive collection of “dindu sources” for Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany from 1933-1945.

    At any rate though, I understand your desire for something that is objective and fact based instead of being completely and utterly biased, so I’ll link the following few:

    The most objective of all would be by far the American Leftist Edward S Hermanm with these two sources (if you don’t bother with anything else, at least bother with these 2):

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/serb-demonization-as-propaganda-coup/13130

    https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20091001191451/http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/5892

    Since you seem to value Saker’s writing on “deconstructing Islamophobia”, you should take the time to read about his brief explanation of the 1990’s wars and the present/future of the Balkans:

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/kosovo-will-be-liberated/

    Some non-Serb guy who wrote at Unz Review for the first time:

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-nobel-prize-in-literature-and-the-politics-of-selective-outrage/?highlight=Peter+Handke

    Max Parry surprisingly gets most things (but not everything) correct about the 1990’s war:

    http://www.unz.com/article/no-srebrenica-did-not-inspire-christchurch/

    Slobodan Milosevic against New World Order (He was a flawed man in many ways and made some bad decisions, although his conduct in 1999 and in Hague captivity was very good); A 12 minute speech made by Milosevic at the Hague where he debunks the lies and slander of the Hague scum (English subtitles of course):

    A final important thing to emphasize about the wars around the collapse of Yugoslavia is that the Serbs literally did not start any of it (Serbia in fact hasn’t started a single war since the 1st Balkan War in 1912, btw, I know, sounds unbelievable). The whole thing was staged by the USA and other powerful international actors from the very start with the USA taking a leading role with US congress Law 101-513 that openly and aggressively financed backed separatism against Yugoslavia/Serbia from the very start:

    http://dengalnaserben.weebly.com/history-1990-to-1999/1990-us-congress-law-101-513-destroy-jugoslavia

    Yes, I see, basically support giving the Serbs everything they are asking for…(sigh).

    Not really, actually. Union of Serbia and Republika Srpska, and Serbia retaking control of Kosovo are quite minimal demands. Maximum Serb demands include basically everything Serbia won as a victorious power in 1918 from WW1 and most of Albania and Vardar Macedonia that Serbia won from 1912-1913.

    Of course, the minimal demands are basically the only ones that are realistic compared to anything else, really. I am personally opposed to anything beyond what I describe as minimal demands since I think they’re unrealistic and that demanding more would even be harmful for Serbs for many different reasons.

    Politics doesn’t work like this. There need to be compromises and settlements.

    A clueless and naive statement. Tell me, how is Israel negotiating with Palestine? You know, having its settlers throw rocks at Palestinians and then doing Air strikes or whatever else it likes. What “compromises and settlements” Israel shows towards Palestine and Gaza!

    Does your definition of “compromises and settlements” include things such as NATO’s with their Rambouillet Ultimatum in 1999 when they demanded that Milosevic end Serbia’s sovereignty and allow NATO troops free access through Yugoslavia or otherwise a 78 day bombing campaign and military land invasion all while pretending on world media that Serbs were being unreasonable for rejecting normal negotiation (also based upon the hoax Racak atrocity by US government official William Walker that was really nothing more than a counter-terrorist operation)?

    Also, how do you think the present state of affairs in the Balkans came about to be?

    I don’t know, perhaps come to the international community with something like “we want most of Republika for most of Kosovo (details to be hashed out)”. Republika is about twice the area of Kosovo, so you actually end up with more land than before. Perhaps that will get the ball rolling.

    If you haven’t noticed, any mention of such things gets un-ironically treated as practically “pure evil” in many mainstream media sources. By the way, the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo would literally fall apart on themselves in less than 2 days without international support (mostly USA) in terms of giving them financial aid and military support (especially Camp Bondsteel for Kosovo). People with full fledged US military support behind them tend to have very little interest in negotiating in good faith …

    Or you can shout at random Pakistani-born guys living in Illinois over the internet. Your call.

    Lol. Is that the impression my writing is giving you?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Colin Wright
  469. Talha says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    I first don’t understand what you mean by “neutral and unbiased” sources since such things basically don’t exist for almost any subject matter in world history.

    You can get close enough.

    if you don’t bother with anything else, at least bother with these 2

    Thank you, I read the fist two and definitely learned some things I had not known before. The Kosovo issue, I had already read about before through another fairly reliable independent journalist, John Pilger; so I have never really bought the entire story fully. I had also read about the level of civilian damage NATO bombing had committed in Serbia proper.

    On top of that, I remember in my visit to Kosovo, we mostly met villagers and these people seemed to be decent, humble folk – religious too. But I will not forget meeting with a young man who had fought in the KLA; he was mostly secular, very much into ethno-nationalism, full of hate, and the one thing I remember about him is my assessment that – this man looks to be a killer.

    openly and aggressively financed backed separatism against Yugoslavia/Serbia from the very start

    No doubt with Montenegro, Albania, Slovenia, Croatia, etc. added to NATO, there was a plan to have these regions fall under NATO influence. I think that goes without saying.

    Tell me, how is Israel negotiating with Palestine?

    Are you going to tell me Serbia is in the same political position with Republika and Kosovo as Israel is with Palestine? Israel is given free reign – if you make a move, you will get shot down. You know this.

    By the way, the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo would literally fall apart on themselves in less than 2 days without international support

    Agreed. If it was me, I’d negotiate Republika for Kosovo and settle for that permanently. Until those various countries leave NATO – not much you can do. You attack them and you’d bring in everyone from the Germans to the Turks over your heads.

    People with full fledged US military support behind them tend to have very little rinterest in negotiating in good faith …

    Can’t argue there – see the example of Israel.

    Lol. Is that the impression my writing is giving you?

    Kind of, but this was a much better exchange, thanks; I learned something.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  470. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    It’s time for you to read some real history, not only Arabian Nights. I guess that something like A.A. Vasiliev “Byzance et les Arabes” would be a little hard for you (French, 2 volumes). So, I recommend something lighter: “Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the West”, by Raymond Ibrahim. It covers all the topics, from Byzantine, Arabic and Syriac sources. Good read.

    • Replies: @Talha
  471. Seraphim says:
    @Malacaay

    Why? Just send them all there, it’s their ‘holy land’ after all and large enough to accommodate them all. They’ll be happy to apply the Sharia Law to their heart content, chop their hands and heads without anyone frowning at that, taking as many wives as they like, and we’ll be happy to see their backsides in the air from secure distance.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  472. @TheTotallyAnonymous

    ‘…Maximum Serb demands include basically everything Serbia won as a victorious power in 1918 from WW1…’

    Ahem. First off, Serbia was not quite a ‘victorious power’ in the First World War. She was on the same side as those powers that eventually won — but that’s a different matter. Physically, she was conquered and completely occupied by the Central Powers.

    Secondly, you manage to equate Serbia with the post-1918 state of Yugoslavia. That state was not ‘Serbia’; in fact, its full name was ‘the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes.’. It was a federal state composed of several peoples — not just the Serbs. Serbia did not gain any territory as a result of the First World War. On the contrary; she allowed herself to be subsumed into the new, multi-ethnic state of ‘Yugoslavia.’

    You might argue for a ‘Great Serbia’ incorporating everything Serbia ruled from 1913 to 1916 — but then, Germany might wish to claim her holdings as of 1942. Neither claim strikes me as very likely to be accepted by anyone else. Certainly there’s no reason to regard Serbia’s patrimony as in any sense equivalent to the territory of the former Yugoslavia.

    ‘Serbia’ might most reasonably be defined as that state which appeared immediately after the break up of Yugoslavia. Alternatively, some plausible claim might be advanced for a restitution of the borders as they existed for most of the nineteenth century. I don’t see why anything in excess of that should be seriously considered, though.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
  473. @Talha

    Are you going to tell me Serbia is in the same political position with Republika and Kosovo as Israel is with Palestine?

    No. It’s almost the opposite actually. At least in the case of Kosovo. Still, I don’t think Bosnia can really be compared to much of anything else in the world. Perhaps the whole Western World is just becoming one huge mega-sized Bosnia? Idk.

    But I will not forget meeting with a young man who had fought in the KLA; he was mostly secular, very much into ethno-nationalism, full of hate, and the one thing I remember about him is my assessment that – this man looks to be a killer.

    No surprises there. After all, the USA declared the KLA to be a terrorist organization back in 1998 but then went on to openly support them in 1999 while it had been arming, training and aiding them before that anyway.

    If it was me, I’d negotiate Republika for Kosovo and settle for that permanently. Until those various countries leave NATO – not much you can do. You attack them and you’d bring in everyone from the Germans to the Turks over your heads.

    Possibly. We’ll see about that. Smoke and mirrors + patience + hard work + passage of time, can all work well enough.

    On an interesting note, this month is the first time that of of the world’s 193 countries, 94 no longer recognize Kosovo while only only 94 countries recognize it, with there being 5 countries that are undecided or have a contested/controversial and uncertain attitude on the matter. In other words, this is the first time since 2008 that Kosovo is not recognized by the majority of countries in the world, and instead, the number of recognition’s v non-recognition’s is in a stalemate and will certainly be recognized by less countries in the future:

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.rs%2F2019%2F11%2F14%2Fdacic-pristina-vise-nema-vecinu-u-un%2F

    this was a much better exchange, thanks; I learned something.

    Not a problem. Belligerency is almost always the norm when discussing anything of note about the Balkans, btw.

    • Replies: @Talha
  474. @Malacaay

    I have to say I actually partly agree with this statement. Not all of it, but with certain parts.

    Congratulations, you’ve got the first agree button pressed by me on one of your comments.

  475. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    “Raymond Ibrahim is currently Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center; Distinguished Senior Fellow at the Gatestone Institute; and Judith Friedman Rosen Fellow at the Middle East Forum.”

    https://www.raymondibrahim.com/about/

    You go ahead and read books by that shill man fellow. Anyone else is welcome to do the same – doesn’t bother me one bit and I’m completely uninterested in trying to convince you otherwise.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Seraphim
  476. @Colin Wright

    Ahem. First off, Serbia was not quite a ‘victorious power’ in the First World War. She was on the same side as those powers that eventually won — but that’s a different matter.
    Physically, she was conquered and completely occupied by the Central Powers.

    Only true from late 1915 to early 1918.

    Serbia pretty much almost single-handedly freed itself from being occupied by the Central Powers and by extension its rightful ancient lands held by Austria-Hungary.

    You’re evidently clueless about one of the most important battles of World War 1, the Battle of Dobro Polje in 1918 that led to the capitulation of Bulgaria, followed by Austria-Hungary soon after, and the Central Powers completely abandoning the Balkans with the Armistice plus Treaties of Versailles and Triannon following soon after (in which Serbs played a decisive role, of course).

    https://historycollection.co/ten-facts-battle-dobro-polje-battle-led-allied-victory-world-war/2/

    Secondly, you manage to equate Serbia with the post-1918 state of Yugoslavia. That state was not ‘Serbia’; in fact, its full name was ‘the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes.’. It was a federal state composed of several peoples — not just the Serbs. Serbia did not gain any territory as a result of the First World War.

    WRONG

    In fact, this is literally the one thing about which you could not be more wrong.

    The Kingdom of Serbia after the Battle of Dobro Polje regained control over its own territory and in general all the territory that it desired in Austria-Hungary. The regions and the territory of modern day Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia and Slovenia all first came under the occupation of the Serbian military and Kingdom of Serbia in 1918. It was only slightly later that Serbia decided to form the Kingdom of SHS (Serbs, Croats and Slovenes) with the Austro-Hungarian territories of Croatia and Slovenia. In fact, the Croats and Slovenes even invited the Serbian Army to save them from being partitioned by Italy, Austria and Hungary. Serbs had the option to easily form a Greater Serbia (after all, Allied powers of Britain and France offered this to Serbia in 1915, but it was rejected) but rejected it for a Yugoslavia instead.

    No single greater mistake has even been made in Serbian history than this one. Also, please spare me the “Serb domination” arguments since the reality is that it was quite impotent and incompetent during the Kingdom of Yugoslavia while it did not even exist in Communist Yugoslavia until the late 1980’s.

    Certainly there’s no reason to regard Serbia’s patrimony as in any sense equivalent to the territory of the former Yugoslavia.

    You’re evidently one of those retards that un-ironically believes Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, “Kosovo”, North Macedonia and etc. are real legit countries and not just artificial creations by foreign powers. You’re probably also dumb enough to believe in Serb aggression and “evil Serbs” narratives, so forget it.

    Alternatively, some plausible claim might be advanced for a restitution of the borders as they existed for most of the nineteenth century.

    You would have Austria and Turkey again ruling most of the Balkans?

  477. Pandour says: • Website
    @TheTotallyAnonymous

    Why no feedback on my comment on Voćin.The former territories of Austria-Hungary which fell under despotic and corrupt Serbian rule in 1918 were merely regarded as war booty and treated as such.In 1919 and in 1920 the robber regime in Belgrade looted Croatia alone of hundreds of millions of Dinars exchanging four Austrian Crowns for one virtually worthless Dinar.From 1919 to 1938 the Yugoslav state budget amounted to 180 billion Dinars of which Croatia committed 60 billion Dinars of which only 30 million were invested in Croatia while 30 billion went primarily to Serbia.All non-Serbian regions from 1918 to 1991 were Serbian colonies,victims of Serbian gangster regimes.According to the Belgrade economic monthly Index,no. 4,page 14 1978 during the course of 1977 Serbia received a billion Dinars from the federal budget while the other republics got literally nothing,to cite just one one example.Over 60 per cent of the earnings from tourism in Croatia went to the parasites in Belgrade..The real picture of Serbian colonialism and occupation in the two Serbian tyrannies is best described by the following-in 1970 of 12 accredited diplomats in the Yugoslav embassy in Washington there were eight Serbs,two Slovenians,one Montenegrin and one Jew.Of 19 other employees in the embassy there were 16 Serbs,two Montenegrins and two Croats-Ivan Perić and Mira Blažević,the latter the maid of the wife of the Serb ambassador.It is disgraceful that after all these decades that you have not realized that the two versions of Serb-dominated Yugoslavia-a more accurate description would be Serboslavija-were doomed from the outset.