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The re-nomination (albeit somewhat reshuffled) of the “economic block” of the Medvedev government has elicited many explanations, some better than others. Today I want to look at one specific hypothesis which can be summed up like this: Putin decided against purging the (unpopular) “economic block” from the Russian government because he wanted to present the EU with “known faces” and partners EU politicians would trust. Right now, with Trump’s insane behavior openly alienating most European leaders, this is the perfect time to add a Russian “pull” to the US “push” and help bring the EU closer to Russia. By re-appointing Russian “liberals” (that is a euphemism for WTO/WB/IMF/etc types) Putin made Russia look as attractive to the EU as possible. In fact, the huge success of the Saint Petersburg summit and the Parliamentary Forum is proof that this strategy is working.

This hypothesis is predicated on one crucial assumption: that the EU, under the right conditions, could become a partner for Russia.

But is that assumption warranted? I personally don’t believe that it is, and I will try to lay out the reasons for my skepticism:

First, there is no “EU”, at least not in political terms. More crucially, there is no “EU foreign policy”. Yes, there are EU member states, who have political leaders, there is a big business community in the EU and there are many EU organizations, but as such, the “EU” does not exist, especially not in terms of foreign policy. The best proof of that is how clueless the so-called “EU” has been in the Ukraine, then with the anti-Russian sanctions, in dealing with an invasion of illegal immigrants, and now with Trump. At best, the EU can be considered a US protectorate/colony, with some subjects “more equal than others” (say, the UK versus Greece). Most (all?) EU member states are abjectly obedient to the US, and this is no surprise considering that even the so-called “EU leader” or “EU heavyweight” – Germany – only has very limited sovereignty. The EU leaders are nothing but a comprador elite which doesn’t give a damn about the opinions and interests of the people of Europe. The undeniable fact is that the so-called “EU foreign policy” has gone against the vital interests of the people of Europe for decades and that phenomenon is only getting worse.

Second, the single most powerful and unified organization in Europe is not even an EU organization, but NATO. And NATO, in real terms, is no less than 80% US. Forget about those fierce looking European armies, they are all a joke. Not only do they represent no credible force (being too small, too poorly trained, under-equipped and poorly commanded), but they are completely dependent on the US for a long list of critical capabilities and “force multipliers“: command, control, communications, intelligence, networking, surveillance, reconnaissance, target acquisition, logistics, etc. Furthermore, in terms of training, force planning, weapon systems procurement, deployment and maintenance, EU states are also totally dependent on the US. The reason? The US military budget totally dwarfs anything individual EU states can spend, so they all depend on Uncle Sam. Of sure, the NATO figurehead – the Secretary General – is usually a non-entity which makes loud statements and is European (I think of that clown Stoltenberg as the prefect example), but NATO is not run by the NATO Secretary General. In reality, it is run by the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), who is the head of the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE) and these guys are as red, white and blue as it gets. Forget about the “Eurocorps” or any other so-called “European armies” – it’s all hot air, like Trudeau’s recent outburst at Trump. In reality in the EU, as in Canada, they all know who is boss. And here is the single most important fact: NATO desperately needs Russia as justification for its own existence: if relations with Russia improve, then NATO would have no more reason to exist. Do you really think that anybody will let that happen? I sure don’t! And right now, the Europeans are busy asking for more US troops on their soil, not less and they are all pretending to be terrified by a Russian invasion, hence the need for more and bigger military exercises close to the Russian border. And just to cover all its bases, NATO is now gradually expanding into Latin America.

Third, there is a long list of EU governments which vitally need further bad relationships with Russia. They include:

  1. Unpopular governments which need to explain their own failures by the nefarious actions of an external bogyman. A good example is how the Spanish authorities blamed Russia for the crisis in Catalonia. Or the British with their “Brexit”. The Swedes are doing even better, they are already preparing their public opinion for a “Russian interference” in case the election results don’t turn out to be what they need.
  2. Governments whose rhetoric has been so hysterically anti-Russian that they cannot possibly back down from it. Best examples: the UK and Merkel. But since most (but not all) EU states did act on the Skripal false-flag on the basis of the British “highly likely” and in the name of “solidarity”, they are now all stuck as accomplices of this policy. There is no way they are simply going to admit that they were conned by the Brits.
  3. EU prostitutes: states whose only policy is to serve the US against Russia. These states compete against each other in the most abject way to see who can out-brown-nose each other for the position of “most faithful and willing loyal servant of the US”. The best examples are, of course, the three Baltic statelets, but the #1 position has to go to the “fiercely patriotic Poles” who are now willing to actually pay Uncle Sam to be militarily occupied (even though the very same Uncle Sam is trying to racketeer them for billions of dollars). True, now that EU subsidies are running out, the situation of these states is becoming even more dire, and they know that the only place where they can still get money is the US. So don’t expect them to change their tune anytime soon (even if Bulgaria has already realized that nobody in the West gives a damn about it).
  4. Governments who want to crack down on internal dissent by accusing any patriotic or independent political party/movement to be “paid by the Kremlin” and representing Russian interests. The best example is France and how it treated the National Front. I would argue that most EU states are, in one way or another, working on creating a “national security state” because they do realize (correctly) that the European people are deeply frustrated and oppose EU policies (hence all the anti-EU referendums lost by the ruling elites).

Contrary to a very often repeated myth, European business interests do not represent a powerful anti-russophobic force. Why? Just look at Germany: for all the involvement of Germany (and Merkel personally) in the Ukraine, for all the stupid rhetoric about “Russia being an aggressor” which “does not comply with the Mink Agreements”, North Stream is going ahead! Yes, money talks, and the truth is that while anti-Russian sanctions have cost Europe billions, the big financial interests (say the French company Total) have found ways to ignore/bypass these sanctions. Oh sure, there is a pro-trade lobby with Russian interest in Europe. It is real, but it simply does not have anywhere near the power the anti-Russian forces in the EU have. This is why for years now various EU politicians and public figures have made noises about lifting the sanctions, but when it came to the vote – they all voted as told by the real bosses.

ORDER IT NOW

Not all EU Russophobia is US-generated, by the way. We have clearly seen that these days when Trump suggested that the G7 (or, more accurately, the G6+1) needed to re-invite Russia, it was the Europeans who said “nope!”. To the extend that there is a “EU position” (even a very demure and weak one), it is mostly anti-Russian, especially in the northern part of Europe. So when Uncle Sam tells the Europeans to obey and engage in the usual Russia-bashing, they all quickly fall in line, but in the rare case when the US does not push a rabidly anti-Russian agenda, EU politicians suddenly find enough willpower to say “no”. By the way, for all the Trump’s statements about re-inviting Russia into the G6+1 the US is still busy slapping more sanctions on Russia.

The current mini-wars between the US and the EU (on trade, on Iran, on Jerusalem) do not at all mean that Russia automatically can benefit from this. Again, the best example of this is the disastrous G6+1 summit in which Trump basically alienated everybody only to have the G6 reiterate its anti-Russian position even though the G6+1 needs Russia far more than Russia needs the G7 (she really doesn’t!). Just like the US and Israeli leaders can disagree and, on occasion, fight each other, that does not at all mean that somehow they are not fundamentally joined at the hip. Just think of mob “families” who can even have “wars” against each other, but that does not at all mean that this will benefit the rest of the population whom all mobsters prey upon.

The Ukrainian crisis will only benefit anti-Russian forces in Europe. There is a very high probability that in the near future the Ukronazi regime will try to reconquer Novorussia (DNR/LRN). I submit that the outcome of such an attack is not in doubt – the Ukronazis will lose. The only question is this: to whom will they lose:

  • Option one: they lose to the combined forces of the DNR and LNR. This is probably the most likely outcome. Should this happen, there is a very high probability of a Novorussian counter attack to liberate most of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, especially the cities of Slaviansk and Mariupol. Since past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, we can be pretty darn sure of what the reaction in Kiev and in the West will be: Russia will be blamed for it all. The AngloZionists will never admit that the Ukronazi regime lost a civil war to its own people because the Novorussians will never accept a Nazi regime ruling over them. Thus, a Novorussian victory will result in more hysterical Russophobia.
  • Option two: the Ukronazis succeed in their attack and threaten to overrun Donetsk, Lugansk and the rest of Novorussia. Putin simply cannot allow this to happen. He has made that promise many times and he has recently repeated it during his “open line” with the Russian people. If the Russians are forced to intervene, this will not be a massive ground invasion – there is no need for that. Russia has the firepower needed in the form of missile and artillery strikes to destroy the attacking Urkonazi forces and to impose a no-fly zone over all of Novorussia. If Kiev pushes on and launches a full-scale attack on Russia proper, the Ukrainian armed forces will be totally disorganized and cease combat in about 48 hours. This scenario is what I call the “Neocon dream” since such a Russian intervention will not be imaginary, but quite real and the Kremlin will even confirm it all very publicly and probably recognize the two Novorussian Republics just like what happened in 08.08.08 when Saakashvili decided to invade South Ossetia. So, AngloZionists will (finally!) have the “proof” that Russia is the aggressor, the Poles and Balts will prepare for an “imminent” Russian invasion and I think that there is a pretty good chance that NATO forces will move into the Western Ukraine to “stop the Russians”, even if the said Russians will have absolutely no desire (or even possible motive) to want to invade the rest of the Ukraine or, even less so, Poland, Sweden or the Baltic statelets.

I will admit that there is still a small possibility that a Ukronazi attack might not happen. Maybe Poroshenko & Co. will get cold feet (they know the real condition of the Ukie military and “dobrobat” death squads) and maybe Putin’s recent not-so-veiled threat about “grave consequences for the Ukrainian statehood” will have the needed effect. But what will happen even if this attack does not take place? The EU leaders and the Ukronazi regime in Kiev will still blame Russia for the Ukraine now clearly being a failed state. Whatever scenario you find more likely for the Ukraine, things there will only get worse and everybody will blame Russia.

The crisis in Syria will only benefit anti-Russian forces in Europe. It is becoming pretty clear that the US is now attempting a reconquista of Syria or, at least, a break-up of Syria into several zones, including US-controlled ones. Right now, the US and the “good terrorists” have lost the war, but that does not stop them from re-igniting a new one, mostly by reorganizing, retraining, redeploying and, most importantly, re-branding the surviving “bad terrorists” into “good ones”. This plan is backed by Saudi money and Israeli firepower. Furthermore, Russia is now reporting that US Special Forces are already working with the (new) “good terrorists” to – you guessed it – prepare yet another fake chemical attack and blame it on the Syrians. And why not? It worked perfectly already several times, why not do that again? At the very least, it would give the US another try at getting their Tomahawks to show their effectiveness (even if they fail again, facts don’t matter here). And make no mistake, a US “victory” in Syria (or in Venezuela) would be a disaster not only for the region, but for every country wanting to become sovereign (see Andre Vltchek’s excellent article on this topic here). And, again, Russia will be blamed for it all and, with certifiable nutcasts like Bolton, Russian forces might even be attacked. As I wrote already many times, this is far from over. Just as in the Ukrainian case, some deal might be made (at least US and Russian military officials are still talking to each other) but my personal opinion is that making any kind of deal with Trump is as futile as making deals with Netanyahu: neither of them can be trusted and they both will break any and all promises in a blink of an eye. And if all hell breaks loose in Syria and/or Iran, NATO will make sure that the Europeans all quickly and obediently fall in line (“solidarity”, remember?).

The bottom line is this: currently, the EU is most unlikely to become a viable partner for Russia and the future does look rather bleak.

One objection to my pessimism is the undeniable success of the recent Saint Petersburg summit and the Parliamentary Forum. However, I believe that neither of these events was really centered around Europe at all, but about the world at large (see excellent report by Gilbert Doctorow on this topic here). Yes, Russia is doing great and while the AngloZionist media loves to speak about the “isolation” of Russia, the truth is that it is the Empire which is isolated, while Russia and China are having tremendous success building the multi-polar world they want to replace the Empire with. So while it is true that the western leaders might prefer to see a liberal “economic block” in the new Russian government, the rest of the world has no such desire at all (especially considering how many countries out there have suffered terrible hardships at the hands of the WTO/WB/IMF/etc types).

Conclusion:

The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella. You can think of it as a gigantic criminal gang racketeering the entire planet for “protection”. To think that by presenting a “liberal” face to these thugs will gain you their support is extremely naive as these guys don’t care about your face: what they want is your submission. Vladimir Putin put it best when he saidThey do not want to humiliate us, they want to subdue us, solve their problems at our expense”.

However, if the EU is, for all practical purposes, non-existent, Russia can, and will, engage with individual EU member states. There is a huge difference between, say, Poland and Italy, or the UK and Austria. Furthermore, the EU is not only dysfunctional, it is also non-viable. Russia would immensely benefit from the current EU either falling apart or being deeply reformed because the current EU is a pure creation of the US-backed Bilderberger types and not the kind of Europe the European people need. In fact, I would even argue that the EU is the single biggest danger for the people of the European continent. Thus Russia should use her resources to foster bi-lateral cooperation with individual EU member states and never take any action which would strengthen (or even legitimize) EU-derived organizations such as the EU Parliament, the European Court of Human Rights, etc. These are all entities which seek to undermine the sovereignty of all its members, including Russia. Again, Putin put it best when he recently declared that “either Russia is a sovereign country, or there is no Russia“.

Whatever the ideology and slogans, all empires are inherently evil and inherently dangerous to any country wanting to be truly sovereign. If Russia (and China) want to create a multi-polar world, they need to gradually disengage from those trans-national bodies which are totally controlled by the Empire, it is really that simple. Instead, Russia needs to engage those countries, political parties and forces who advocate for what de Gaulle called “the Europe of fatherlands“. Both the AngloZionist Empire and the EU are undergoing the most profound crisis in their history and the writing is on the wall. Sooner rather than later, one by one, European countries will recover their sovereignty, as will Russia. Only if the people of Europe succeed in recovering their sovereignty could Russia look for real partnerships in the West, if only because the gradually developing and integrating Eurasian landmass offer tremendous economic opportunities which could be most beneficial to the nations of Europe. A prosperous Europe “from the Atlantic to the Urals” is still a possibility, but that will happen only when the current European Union and NATO are replaced by truly European institutions and the current European elites replaced by sovereignists.

The people of Russia, EU and, I would argue, the United States all have the same goal and the same enemy: they want to recover their sovereignty, get rid of their corrupt and, frankly, treacherous elites and liberates themselves from the hegemony of the AngloZionist Empire. This is why pushing the issue of “true sovereignty” (and national traditional values) is, I believe, the most unifying and powerful political idea to defeat the Empire. This will be a long struggle but the outcome is not in doubt.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, EU, Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. mikkkkas says:

    The Saker has gone completely PCR, Paul Craig Robert, he even admit that. a more pessimistic ,dystopic view of things would be hard to find. Sad because he did some very good inspiring work initially but appears non-inspired and has apparently succumbed to his depression.

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    • Replies: @m___
    Dramatic shift in analysis of Saker,

    As yours truly, we noticed the drastic shift as to pointing to supranational guidance of international political events. As for his mention, blaming Trump and Netanyahu to be suppreme leaders and deciders, we see them rather as spokespersons, blowing and hissing publicly the script of what Saker calls the Anglo-Jewish maffia, the only subgroup that sorted for quality, not quantity in strategy(global evidently and necessarily) and membership for in-group only benefit. Elitist, subjectively better organized than any entity other, territorially mostly independent in case of emergency, and moral conviction based on historical Judaist values, strategies and tactics. Play all sides and stay invisible.

    Below the prudent lines of Saker quoted.

    The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella. You can think of it as a gigantic criminal gang racketeering the entire planet for “protection”. To think that by presenting a “liberal” face to these thugs will gain you their support is extremely naive as these guys don’t care about your face: what they want is your submission.
     
    As for Putin, it could be, that he is, for now, on a footing of equal to the insiders of above, he must somehow understand(Putin gives a public impression to be cognitively superior to all other political tarts of the moment) that real problems are global, and Russian nationalism, or international expansion based on Russian nationalism are just a political tool to rally bulk humanity. Very similar to the palm oil, corn syrup and digital porn obese consumerism of the West promotion. At most bickering and infighting can be done by visible actors as Putin, Trump, Xi(affected indirectly), but there must be a scenario, and war cannot be anything more then policing.

    To be noticed, that it pleads for Saker's intellectualism to correct and even reverse, after due analysis his opinions unlike a Tom Engelhardt(at that qualitative rather inferior). No "to big to fail" here. Let's wait and see, how Saker's intuition can take him into quantitative analysis of what moves beyond and against nationalist and EU, US, Russia, China dialectics. The old adagio of the information age: networks, was historically present in International Jewry. One can be a policeman, be a thief, but foremost one is a Jew.

    Honest writing of Saker.

    How good are these supranational, corporatacracy(another commenter), "globally organized elites" groups with better cohesion? To our definite impression, not good enough, though way above the bulk of humanity and most of the middle class media comprehension. Two singular dramas of our age, that will decide the twenty-first century. Better and not good enough. Only to be arrested by bringing in AI, eugenetics, rebranding goals and focus. It is in itself a pocket drama repeated over and over that analysis is mostly litterary, never relies on the best of information, is fragmented. Even today indexing big data lumps could solve this partly. Alternative media in the first place apply the same archaic methods while better tools are available. That said unz.com is above the fray in focussing and searching methods. It should spark some hidden outliers glued into the bulk of the deplorables by individual fate.

    War-ing and economics, the epistomology of politics, the focus of daily news, should be seen as consequences, not prime causes of attention. In the end they impose toxicity, migrations, excess population densities, excess total human numbers. The goal itself of humanity should be reasserted as quality of life for all standing and future humans. Then strategy and tactics derive from there. Why? Well the same supra national elites, the only ones that can take on the essentials tend to forget they are frogging in the same tub, that nature probably using more disruptive method will take care of the human plage if not.
    , @RL67
    I completely agree with you. I'll remind the audience that shall we have followed PCR's advice, nuclear armageddon should already have happened 3 or 4 years ago. I have noticed that since Trump's gambit with Mike Flynn, the author's geopolitical analysis have become more and more ideologic, as if Putin's policy should be the enacting of Alexander Dugin's philosophy as the prerequisite to success. I think Mr. Trump has shown to be a political leader of enormous stature. I value a political analysis when it's able to forecast the short and medium term dynamics. In that sense I have to admit that at this point, Thierry Meyssan is one of the few who got it right time and again.
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  2. Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn’t work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin’s bald faced lies.

    The EU really can’t deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

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    • Replies: @AI
    If we should use the term "stole", then make it right and say "stole it back", because Crimea was initially stolen from Russia.
    , @El Dato
    "Muh stolen Crimea".

    It's worse than Syria or Iraq, worse than Mandchuria! Even worser than Hawaii!!

    There will be warbling songs about this in 100 years time with mournful balalaika tunes.

    , @pyrrhus
    Looney tunes have nothing on you...The events in the Ukraine are well known to all, but of course as a paid troll, you will continue to post your warmongering lies as long as the checks clear.
    , @jilles dykstra
    The CIA seems to have spent five billion $ in Ukraine.
    Who wants to incorporate Ukraine in the west therefore is not clear, the USA, NATO or EU, or all of them ?
    In any case, many in Europe see Putin just as an honest gas supplier.
    Trump's gas is much more expensive.
    , @Ger
    A more reasonable resolution would be for the American/Nazi Consortium to return Ukraine back to the people to elect a legitimate government to restore sovereignty. It is difficult to negotiate with 'bastards' controlled by the Western Warmongers. As for Crimea, witness one of the best examples of 'democracy' when the people took matters into their hands and voted to leave the American/Nazi controlled Ukraine. Given the option to live in a failed state or enjoy the good life on the beaches of Crimea .... which would you choose?
    , @annamaria
    Hey, Quartermaster, why don't you tell us more about the amazing progress achieved by Ukraine after the Kagans-sponsored revolution of 2014? For instance, you could tell us (proudly?) about the rise of neo-Nazi power in Ukraine and about certain Kolomojsky, the Ukrainian/Israeli thug, and his financing of the Azov battalion.
    The EU countries put people in prison for questioning the tight official narrative/numbers of holocaust biz.
    The same AngloZionist "elites" are content with the desecration of Jewish cemeteries in Ukraine by the local neo-Nazis: http://www.stalkerzone.org/banderists-came-ukraine-march-center-odessa/
    "Antisemitic Hate Crimes Thrive in Ukraine:" https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/04/21/antisemitic-hate-crimes-thrive-in-ukraine/
    "Symbols of the 1st Galician SS Division are not considered to be Nazi symbols in Ukraine:" http://eu.eot.su/2017/05/20/symbols-of-the-1st-galician-ss-division-are-not-considered-to-be-nazi-symbols-in-ukraine/
    "The roots of fascism in Ukraine: From Nazi collaboration to Maidan:" http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/
    , @slorter
    You give a reply like that and call him clueless and expect us to consider what you have said in reply! Write something intelligent to consider!!
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  3. Skeptikal says:

    “that includes Crimea which he stole.”

    Hmmm, if one is using a very odd definition of “steal.”
    The worst that might be said of Putin/Russia is “Indian giver”!

    Crimea was part of Russia since I don’t know, sometime in the 18th or 19th C. Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, “gave” Crimea to the Ukraine in I think it was 1954—when Ukraine, also known as Malarossiya, was, BTW, part of the USSR. Crimea had lots of delightful features that K thought should belong to Ukraine.

    After the 2014 coupin Kiev, Crimea’s residents decided, in a referendum vote, that they would just as soon not be targeted by Ukrainian troops and would prefer to return to Russia, and normal life.
    Putin accepted Crimea’s decision and its self-determined gift of itself back to Russia.

    No stealing involved. It is Quartermaster who is off the rails.

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    • Agree: renfro, Biff
    • Replies: @Cyrano

    Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, “gave” Crimea to the Ukraine in I think it was 1954—when Ukraine, also known as Malarossiya, was, BTW, part of the USSR.
     
    When Khrushchev "gave" Crimea to Ukraine , never in his wildest dreams did he imagined (nor did he wanted) Ukraine to split from Russia and take Crimea with them. Khruschev was a true USSR patriot - he believed in and loved USSR.

    Crimea was supposed to be the dowry in the marriage between Ukraine and Russia into USSR. The fact that later Ukraine decided that it wants to be a ho and have unprotected (by Russia) sex with anyone who will want them, means the deal is off - the dowry goes back to the cheated husband - Russia, and the ho can roam the streets desolate and begging for mercy.

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  4. Cyrano says:
    @Skeptikal
    "that includes Crimea which he stole."

    Hmmm, if one is using a very odd definition of "steal."
    The worst that might be said of Putin/Russia is "Indian giver"!

    Crimea was part of Russia since I don't know, sometime in the 18th or 19th C. Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, "gave" Crimea to the Ukraine in I think it was 1954---when Ukraine, also known as Malarossiya, was, BTW, part of the USSR. Crimea had lots of delightful features that K thought should belong to Ukraine.

    After the 2014 coupin Kiev, Crimea's residents decided, in a referendum vote, that they would just as soon not be targeted by Ukrainian troops and would prefer to return to Russia, and normal life.
    Putin accepted Crimea's decision and its self-determined gift of itself back to Russia.

    No stealing involved. It is Quartermaster who is off the rails.

    Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, “gave” Crimea to the Ukraine in I think it was 1954—when Ukraine, also known as Malarossiya, was, BTW, part of the USSR.

    When Khrushchev “gave” Crimea to Ukraine , never in his wildest dreams did he imagined (nor did he wanted) Ukraine to split from Russia and take Crimea with them. Khruschev was a true USSR patriot – he believed in and loved USSR.

    Crimea was supposed to be the dowry in the marriage between Ukraine and Russia into USSR. The fact that later Ukraine decided that it wants to be a ho and have unprotected (by Russia) sex with anyone who will want them, means the deal is off – the dowry goes back to the cheated husband – Russia, and the ho can roam the streets desolate and begging for mercy.

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    • Replies: @Jake
    That post made me laugh. Humor is always most welcome in these matters.
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  5. Mr. Hack says:

    I will admit that there is still a small possibility that a Ukronazi attack might not happen.

    Are you sure that you’re not standing on shaky ground here, Old Boy? I mean you make such a convincing case that the Nazis in Kyiv are foaming at the mouth to attack Russia? I heard that the Banderites are even pulling Kuchma out of mothballs for this prelude to WWIII, you remember him, he’s the one who cut short his vacation to Brazil when he got wind of the fact that the goodguy Russkies were about to take over Kerch in 2003? He was the only one with big enough balls to stand up successfully to Putler! :-)

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  6. AI says:
    @Quartermaster
    Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn't work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin's bald faced lies.

    The EU really can't deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

    If we should use the term “stole”, then make it right and say “stole it back”, because Crimea was initially stolen from Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    No one stole anything from Russia. The General Secretary had the authority to turn Crimea over to Ukraine, and Crimea voted, along with the rest of Ukraine, for independence. Get the invaders out of Crimea now, and the margin to stay away from Russia will far, far higher than it was in '91. They've gotten a belly full of Putin's "benefits" and realize what they left behind in '91.
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  7. hunor says:

    bad question again!

    there is no such think as EU, there is the Rotchilds , and Bilderbergs the rest are slaves.

    As the Russians says the so called EU or US are none agreement capable.

    There is no need for thousands of words speculating on what is? . Just simply look.

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  8. Beckow says:

    If Kiev wants to attack Donbas they better hurry. After World Cup, and definitely next year when the pipelines bypassing Ukraine will be ready, Ukraine’s strategic situation will get worse. We are in a transition phase: sh..t happened in 2013-15 that is impossible to undo, but there were fortunately constraints on all sides that prevented a meltdown. In a year or two most of those constraints will be gone.

    Saker is correct that EU countries will not work with Russia. Blaming it all on Washington was always stupid – there are forces in Europe, in all countries, who want a confrontation with Russia. Any event, real or fake, will be used to escalate. West cannot lose this one without another fight. And if they sit on their hands, they will eventually lose with a disillusioned Ukraine and slowly disintegrating EU. Populist energy needs to be re-directed eastward, and for that a more aggressive policy is required. This is not pessimism, there simply is no way for EU elite to climb down. How could UK make up with Russia without looking like complete idiots? Or Macron and Merkel? The hostility is at this point inherent in the situation – what started out as a badly thought-out attempt to get some quick goodies (bases in Crimea, Nato expansion, sell weapons) has evolved into a real death spiral.

    We are one Franz Ferdinand moment away from a catastrophe. Let’s enjoy the games while we still can. Trump knows this, so he is trying desperately to organize a summit or send some messages of conciliation. But he is powerless and it might be too late for that. Hubris never dissipates, it requires a disaster and an elite turnover to cure hubris.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Agree.
    , @renfro

    Saker is correct that EU countries will not work with Russia. Blaming it all on Washington was always stupid
     
    Bullshit. ...try to keep up with whats actually happening.

    U.S. Is Trying to Kill Major Gas Deal Between Russia and Germany
    By Tom O'Connor On 5/18/18 at 2:41 PM
    http://www.newsweek.com/us-trying-kill-major-gas-deal-between-russia-germany-934603
    The U.S. has warned both Russia and Germany against pursuing a planned gas pipeline that would run between the two countries, threatening to impose sanctions and claiming the project would threaten the security of its European allies.
    Construction has recently begun for the Nord Stream 2 project, a planned pipeline that would extend from Russia along an existing pipeline through the Baltic Sea into northeastern Germany. Once finished, Nord Stream 2 would reportedly double the amount of gas that Russia could provide Europe. State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary Sandra Oudkirk told reporters in Berlin Thursday that the project could bolster Russia's "malign influence" in the region and that Washington was "exerting as much persuasive power" as it could to stop it, according to the Associated Press.

    Europe in diplomatic push to ease Russia sanctions | Financial Times
    https://www.ft.com/content/9b9bbd3c-44a5-11e8-93cf-67ac3a6482fdApr 20, 2018 - A Europe-wide diplomatic push is under way to persuade the Trump administration to ease US sanctions targeting Russia, as fears mount that ...

    , @Kiza
    Excellent comment as usual Beckow, I could have typed the same. In fact, I have been commenting online since 1992 that neither EU, nor most European states can be friends of Russia. This was based on how those treated Yugoslavia/Serbia during the recent Balkan wars that the same entities helped initiate. Because Serbia is Russia without nuclear weapons. Russia would have gotten exactly the same treatment (Barbarossa 2) as Yugoslavia if it did not have them. Nobody expected Russia to recover so quickly from Yeltsin and even develop the world leading stand-off weapons on a budget. This is the only reason that Barbarossa 2 will never happen. But they cannot stop hoping for a US-lead miracle.

    Yet, the economic interest is there and if China and Russia manage to economically integrate Europe and Asia, then the Euro-doggies will stop yapping and biting at the Russian heels and will fall in line. What else could one expect from such pathetic shameless trash? Give the One-Road another 15 years and watch this unfurle.

    Finally, although I believed that Ukronazis would attack Novorussians, I now think that Ukraine may have run out of suicidal dumb maniacs. It is much cheaper to make noise and beat your Galician chest then to engage the enemy protected by Russia. Ukraine is, unfortunately, already a total economic basket case, plus all One-Road plans circumvent it (as MH17 should have, due to instability). Will there ever be a better example than Ukraine of the benevolent influence of the Anglo-Zionist on a country?

    The Anglo-Zionists versus OneRoad.
    For more information disregard the dumb title and watch this Pepe Escobar interview: http://thesaker.is/interview-of-pepe-escobar-the-world-is-waiting-for-the-apocalypse-if-there-is-a-conflict-between-america-and-russia/
    I watched his other interviews and it is interesting how Pepe is not so open when interviewed by the Westerners.
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  9. El Dato says:
    @Quartermaster
    Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn't work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin's bald faced lies.

    The EU really can't deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

    “Muh stolen Crimea”.

    It’s worse than Syria or Iraq, worse than Mandchuria! Even worser than Hawaii!!

    There will be warbling songs about this in 100 years time with mournful balalaika tunes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    "Muh stolen Crimea" is Putin's line. Russia can't afford Crimea and it will not remain stolen for too much longer.
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  10. Mattheus says:

    Saker is once again completely wrong. His theories fall short to explain lots of real events. He got hooked on his “Anglo-Zionist” theory and “one Hegemon”, which is far from explaining the reality on the ground. There is no one single hegemon, but two powerful interest groups in the west. One of the power centers is dominated by the Rothschilds from the City of London and the other ruled by the Rockerfellers which is based in the US.
    The powers described above are sometimes working in collusion but sometimes work against each other (They were in collusion during the Soviet Afghan war for instance). Currently, we don’t see a collusion but a war being waged in between these two groups. I think it is highly self evident, so much so that it is happening almost all in the open. In the modern history we haven’t witnessed such a openly fought war ever before (between these two powers). All is at stake and the war in between these two is vicious. Thus you can explain Trump’s attitude towards EU, everlasting character assasination of Trump by certain opposing circles in the US, high level resignations, the state of confusion of Nato and much more. If this theory is right (and I think it is much more viable than any other theory that I came across in the Alt-Med), this makes Russia firmly embedded into one of the camps. Unfortunately, the position that Russia took makes him not a sovereign power but on contrary puts him into a subservient role. The late actions of Russia, especially in Syria, is quite telling. I know people who admire Russia get quite frustrated when they hear such a scenario and outcome, but this is possibly the only way Putin believes that Russia can survive. Thus it explains his latest house clean-up of Euroasian integrists. Even worse, if you believe in this scenario, it brings Russia and China against each other especially in the long run. This scenario also put a full stop to the idealist Euroasian multi-polar world order.
    Here is the link to an older video in Russian with English subtitles. The guy’s name is Andrei Fursov and he has some interesting things to say regarding this subject. This interview was just before Obama was elected but is still quite relevent. His newer videos seems to have lost steam, possibly because he is working for some state connected Russian institutions and think-thanks and thus I think he is somewhat restricted. After all it is again the famous “Game Theory”, isn’t it?

    Read More
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  11. As long as the Author keeps talking about Ukronazis, we know that he is not at all prepared to see any problems on the Russian side at all.

    Which serves devalue his argument, even if there are a lot of valid points otherwise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    What is wrong with using the word "Ukronazis?"
    How would you name the happy warriors beholden to the memory of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician)?
    http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/
    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/stepan-bandera-nationalist-euromaidan-right-sector/
    "The newly formed Ukrainian state will work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation.
    The Ukrainian People's Revolutionary Army which has been formed on the Ukrainian lands, will continue to fight with the Allied German Army against Moscovite occupation for a sovereign and united State and a new order in the whole world.
    Long live the Ukrainian Sovereign United Ukraine! Long live the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists! Long live the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and the Ukrainian people – STEPAN BANDERA" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Ukrainian_State_Act
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  12. Gordo says:

    The only thing that will save Europe and Europeans is to reverse the African and Asian immigration.

    For that I would partner with Satan.

    But Satan is already on the other side.

    Read More
    • Agree: byrresheim
    • Replies: @Dante
    Yes I agree and I am certainly pleased to see Europeans waking up to that reality as we speak, There is an increasing trend towards nationalist or nationalist inspired parties emerging all over Europe. It would appear Europeans are waking up and beginning to take our own side
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  13. In the case that the Ukrainians get into the cities Russian airpower and artillery will be useless. The Ukrainians would be hiding in the civilian population as the Russian insurgents do now. A huge civilian death toll will not endear the Donbass to Russia. As it is, the insurgents provoke the Ukrainians by firing from civilian locations. This helps them to control the population with fear of Ukrainians. Once they lose that advantage their game is over. All Ukraine has to do in the Donbass is wait. For several years now, Zhakarenko forecasts a Ukrainian attack, almost weekly it seems. Hasn’t happened yet. The EU knows this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    I don't think you realize that armies need supplies. To break into Donbas cities would be hard enough, but to re-supply them would be impossible. Civilians would mostly evacuate, so there would be little to 'hide in'. Kiev cannot win militarily as long as Russia opposes it. Russia can always blast their bases from air, or with missiles. Don't kid yourself, if Russia has the will, they will prevail.

    Since you mentioned 2014, there was a perfect opportunity for Maidanistas to avoid this. All they had to do was to be friendly and accommodating to its Russian minority. Offer them autonomy, re-assure them, promise that trade and ties with Russia would continue. Kiev did the exact opposite, an extremely bad tactic. US kept on telling them to cool it, that one doesn't win by attacking before ready. But in Kiev emotions prevailed, and so we are where we are.

    Sooner or later a more accommodating government in Kiev will try the 'let bygones be bygones' tactic on Russia. If we are lucky enough to make it that far.
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  14. Russia failed to make an agreement with the EU in 2004. The same Silivoki fascist idiots are still in charge. Until they have been purged, there is no question of a Russian path to membership. Excluding membership, Russia has nothing to offer worth a treaty. It has to sell gas and oil to function. (The Siloviki case for rejecting the EU was that the EU had to buy gas and oil, why join it? The table keeps spinning. Not something security types can handle. Their view of the world is rather static.

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  15. peterAUS says:

    The usual Saker, but, there are a couple of not bad snippets:

    The EU leaders are nothing but a comprador elite which doesn’t give a damn about the opinions and interests of the people of Europe.

    The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella.

    They do not want to humiliate us, they want to subdue us, solve their problems at our expense”.

    As for this:

    If Russia (and China) want to create a multi-polar world, they need to gradually disengage from those trans-national bodies which are totally controlled by the Empire, it is really that simple.

    can’t wait……

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  16. peterAUS says:
    @Beckow
    If Kiev wants to attack Donbas they better hurry. After World Cup, and definitely next year when the pipelines bypassing Ukraine will be ready, Ukraine's strategic situation will get worse. We are in a transition phase: sh..t happened in 2013-15 that is impossible to undo, but there were fortunately constraints on all sides that prevented a meltdown. In a year or two most of those constraints will be gone.

    Saker is correct that EU countries will not work with Russia. Blaming it all on Washington was always stupid - there are forces in Europe, in all countries, who want a confrontation with Russia. Any event, real or fake, will be used to escalate. West cannot lose this one without another fight. And if they sit on their hands, they will eventually lose with a disillusioned Ukraine and slowly disintegrating EU. Populist energy needs to be re-directed eastward, and for that a more aggressive policy is required. This is not pessimism, there simply is no way for EU elite to climb down. How could UK make up with Russia without looking like complete idiots? Or Macron and Merkel? The hostility is at this point inherent in the situation - what started out as a badly thought-out attempt to get some quick goodies (bases in Crimea, Nato expansion, sell weapons) has evolved into a real death spiral.

    We are one Franz Ferdinand moment away from a catastrophe. Let's enjoy the games while we still can. Trump knows this, so he is trying desperately to organize a summit or send some messages of conciliation. But he is powerless and it might be too late for that. Hubris never dissipates, it requires a disaster and an elite turnover to cure hubris.

    Agree.

    Read More
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  17. Beckow says:
    @Philip Owen
    In the case that the Ukrainians get into the cities Russian airpower and artillery will be useless. The Ukrainians would be hiding in the civilian population as the Russian insurgents do now. A huge civilian death toll will not endear the Donbass to Russia. As it is, the insurgents provoke the Ukrainians by firing from civilian locations. This helps them to control the population with fear of Ukrainians. Once they lose that advantage their game is over. All Ukraine has to do in the Donbass is wait. For several years now, Zhakarenko forecasts a Ukrainian attack, almost weekly it seems. Hasn't happened yet. The EU knows this.

    I don’t think you realize that armies need supplies. To break into Donbas cities would be hard enough, but to re-supply them would be impossible. Civilians would mostly evacuate, so there would be little to ‘hide in’. Kiev cannot win militarily as long as Russia opposes it. Russia can always blast their bases from air, or with missiles. Don’t kid yourself, if Russia has the will, they will prevail.

    Since you mentioned 2014, there was a perfect opportunity for Maidanistas to avoid this. All they had to do was to be friendly and accommodating to its Russian minority. Offer them autonomy, re-assure them, promise that trade and ties with Russia would continue. Kiev did the exact opposite, an extremely bad tactic. US kept on telling them to cool it, that one doesn’t win by attacking before ready. But in Kiev emotions prevailed, and so we are where we are.

    Sooner or later a more accommodating government in Kiev will try the ‘let bygones be bygones’ tactic on Russia. If we are lucky enough to make it that far.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    In what way would resupply be impossible? There are no such troubles in Slavyansk. This is no longer the Ukrainian army without the money for fuel for its vehicles, no tents, no changes of underclothes for troops away from barracks etc etc.
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  18. renfro says:
    @Beckow
    If Kiev wants to attack Donbas they better hurry. After World Cup, and definitely next year when the pipelines bypassing Ukraine will be ready, Ukraine's strategic situation will get worse. We are in a transition phase: sh..t happened in 2013-15 that is impossible to undo, but there were fortunately constraints on all sides that prevented a meltdown. In a year or two most of those constraints will be gone.

    Saker is correct that EU countries will not work with Russia. Blaming it all on Washington was always stupid - there are forces in Europe, in all countries, who want a confrontation with Russia. Any event, real or fake, will be used to escalate. West cannot lose this one without another fight. And if they sit on their hands, they will eventually lose with a disillusioned Ukraine and slowly disintegrating EU. Populist energy needs to be re-directed eastward, and for that a more aggressive policy is required. This is not pessimism, there simply is no way for EU elite to climb down. How could UK make up with Russia without looking like complete idiots? Or Macron and Merkel? The hostility is at this point inherent in the situation - what started out as a badly thought-out attempt to get some quick goodies (bases in Crimea, Nato expansion, sell weapons) has evolved into a real death spiral.

    We are one Franz Ferdinand moment away from a catastrophe. Let's enjoy the games while we still can. Trump knows this, so he is trying desperately to organize a summit or send some messages of conciliation. But he is powerless and it might be too late for that. Hubris never dissipates, it requires a disaster and an elite turnover to cure hubris.

    Saker is correct that EU countries will not work with Russia. Blaming it all on Washington was always stupid

    Bullshit. …try to keep up with whats actually happening.

    U.S. Is Trying to Kill Major Gas Deal Between Russia and Germany
    By Tom O’Connor On 5/18/18 at 2:41 PM

    http://www.newsweek.com/us-trying-kill-major-gas-deal-between-russia-germany-934603

    The U.S. has warned both Russia and Germany against pursuing a planned gas pipeline that would run between the two countries, threatening to impose sanctions and claiming the project would threaten the security of its European allies.
    Construction has recently begun for the Nord Stream 2 project, a planned pipeline that would extend from Russia along an existing pipeline through the Baltic Sea into northeastern Germany. Once finished, Nord Stream 2 would reportedly double the amount of gas that Russia could provide Europe. State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary Sandra Oudkirk told reporters in Berlin Thursday that the project could bolster Russia’s “malign influence” in the region and that Washington was “exerting as much persuasive power” as it could to stop it, according to the Associated Press.

    Europe in diplomatic push to ease Russia sanctions | Financial Times
    https://www.ft.com/content/9b9bbd3c-44a5-11e8-93cf-67ac3a6482fdApr 20, 2018 – A Europe-wide diplomatic push is under way to persuade the Trump administration to ease US sanctions targeting Russia, as fears mount that …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    We are talking apples and oranges. EU wants cheap, reliable energy from Russia and to export to Russia as much as possible without interference from US. That is pure business. But the dominant political forces in EU are anti-Russia, some because they are fed by the security-military-academic spending, some because they 'studied' and were politically formed in US or UK. Some because that's just the way they are.

    There is a strong, EU domestic anti-Russian population based on hundreds of years of history, resentment over losses (Germany, Poland, Sweden, Finland), self-brainwashing about perceived abuse (Poland, Baltics, eastern Europeans in general), hatred and contempt towards anything 'eastern', and the traditional anglo anti-Russian policies. Recently new emotional hatreds have been added with endless demonising Russia about xenophobia, hooligans, gays, stray dogs, anything the creative propagandists can push. Most Europeans turn out on reflection to be quite gullible and stupid.

    There are a few minor exceptions and some Latin nations are more level headed. There is also a minority view in the German world, mostly based on their business realism that is neutral toward Russia, but not pro-Russian. There will be no political rapprochement between EU and Russia. There will be better business relations because water flows downhill and EU-Russia economic ties are such an obvious fit. The cultural hatred and political hostility will go on.

    After WWII it took most Europeans less than a generation to revert to the traditional anti-Russian attitudes. In some cases, nations that were literally saved from extermination were more resentful than grateful. In Poland it took less than a year, in Czech Republic 20 years, but the old visceral hatreds emerged again. My advise to Russia would be to mind its own business and not try to sacrifice for the others or to help them. It has always backfired because the cultural milieu in Europe is naturally resentful of Russia and the east in general. Business doesn't change that.

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  19. pyrrhus says:
    @Quartermaster
    Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn't work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin's bald faced lies.

    The EU really can't deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

    Looney tunes have nothing on you…The events in the Ukraine are well known to all, but of course as a paid troll, you will continue to post your warmongering lies as long as the checks clear.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    You are looney tunes. The events in Ukraine are, indeed, well known, as are the lies Saker has been trying to sell. The only warmongers in Ukraine is Putin and his minions. Ukraine did not attack Russia, but the other way around.

    Too bad you can't think for yourself any more than Saker can.
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  20. JR says:
    Read More
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  21. Kiza says:
    @Beckow
    If Kiev wants to attack Donbas they better hurry. After World Cup, and definitely next year when the pipelines bypassing Ukraine will be ready, Ukraine's strategic situation will get worse. We are in a transition phase: sh..t happened in 2013-15 that is impossible to undo, but there were fortunately constraints on all sides that prevented a meltdown. In a year or two most of those constraints will be gone.

    Saker is correct that EU countries will not work with Russia. Blaming it all on Washington was always stupid - there are forces in Europe, in all countries, who want a confrontation with Russia. Any event, real or fake, will be used to escalate. West cannot lose this one without another fight. And if they sit on their hands, they will eventually lose with a disillusioned Ukraine and slowly disintegrating EU. Populist energy needs to be re-directed eastward, and for that a more aggressive policy is required. This is not pessimism, there simply is no way for EU elite to climb down. How could UK make up with Russia without looking like complete idiots? Or Macron and Merkel? The hostility is at this point inherent in the situation - what started out as a badly thought-out attempt to get some quick goodies (bases in Crimea, Nato expansion, sell weapons) has evolved into a real death spiral.

    We are one Franz Ferdinand moment away from a catastrophe. Let's enjoy the games while we still can. Trump knows this, so he is trying desperately to organize a summit or send some messages of conciliation. But he is powerless and it might be too late for that. Hubris never dissipates, it requires a disaster and an elite turnover to cure hubris.

    Excellent comment as usual Beckow, I could have typed the same. In fact, I have been commenting online since 1992 that neither EU, nor most European states can be friends of Russia. This was based on how those treated Yugoslavia/Serbia during the recent Balkan wars that the same entities helped initiate. Because Serbia is Russia without nuclear weapons. Russia would have gotten exactly the same treatment (Barbarossa 2) as Yugoslavia if it did not have them. Nobody expected Russia to recover so quickly from Yeltsin and even develop the world leading stand-off weapons on a budget. This is the only reason that Barbarossa 2 will never happen. But they cannot stop hoping for a US-lead miracle.

    Yet, the economic interest is there and if China and Russia manage to economically integrate Europe and Asia, then the Euro-doggies will stop yapping and biting at the Russian heels and will fall in line. What else could one expect from such pathetic shameless trash? Give the One-Road another 15 years and watch this unfurle.

    Finally, although I believed that Ukronazis would attack Novorussians, I now think that Ukraine may have run out of suicidal dumb maniacs. It is much cheaper to make noise and beat your Galician chest then to engage the enemy protected by Russia. Ukraine is, unfortunately, already a total economic basket case, plus all One-Road plans circumvent it (as MH17 should have, due to instability). Will there ever be a better example than Ukraine of the benevolent influence of the Anglo-Zionist on a country?

    The Anglo-Zionists versus OneRoad.
    For more information disregard the dumb title and watch this Pepe Escobar interview: http://thesaker.is/interview-of-pepe-escobar-the-world-is-waiting-for-the-apocalypse-if-there-is-a-conflict-between-america-and-russia/
    I watched his other interviews and it is interesting how Pepe is not so open when interviewed by the Westerners.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Close Relations: CHECHNYA & SAUDI ARABIA

    Does [anyone] know much about the "republic's relations" that brought Kadyrov to the Kremlin together with MBS?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q-zjo7OsGw
    From Paraguay to North Korea: World Leaders Come to Visit Russia on Eve of World Cup
    , @Beckow
    Thanks. Current trends strengthen Euro-asia (and thus China and Russia), so West will have to do something, otherwise they get weaker over time.

    There has been a maximalist group in the West who believe that 'anything is possible', that even with nukes it is possible to defeat and dismember Russia. The key factor would be internal instability inside Russia. Maidan, Saaksavilli's mad dash in 2008, and the support for Caucas separatists were all done with that in mind. It has mostly failed with Russia becoming more united in the process.

    Failure has never discouraged true fanatics. It is a mistake to see them only in Washington and London, there are plenty of them in positions of power in Berlin, Paris, Warsaw, and even Stockholm. And in Washington the loudest ones are often bitter ethnics from eastern Europe. I honestly think it is about 50-50 whether this gets escalated beyond all reason and we face a catastrophe (so I admit that I don't know :). On the one hand there are the nukes. On the other, it is so hard to climb down for any ideological fanatic. They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time. And then Putin happened and the dream has been slowly dying. Imagine the painful void that they have to live with every day. So they hate. Any concession to people who hate you is counter-productive, thus there will be no deal between Russia-EU. Only obvious trade.

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  22. m___ says:
    @mikkkkas
    The Saker has gone completely PCR, Paul Craig Robert, he even admit that. a more pessimistic ,dystopic view of things would be hard to find. Sad because he did some very good inspiring work initially but appears non-inspired and has apparently succumbed to his depression.

    Dramatic shift in analysis of Saker,

    As yours truly, we noticed the drastic shift as to pointing to supranational guidance of international political events. As for his mention, blaming Trump and Netanyahu to be suppreme leaders and deciders, we see them rather as spokespersons, blowing and hissing publicly the script of what Saker calls the Anglo-Jewish maffia, the only subgroup that sorted for quality, not quantity in strategy(global evidently and necessarily) and membership for in-group only benefit. Elitist, subjectively better organized than any entity other, territorially mostly independent in case of emergency, and moral conviction based on historical Judaist values, strategies and tactics. Play all sides and stay invisible.

    Below the prudent lines of Saker quoted.

    The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella. You can think of it as a gigantic criminal gang racketeering the entire planet for “protection”. To think that by presenting a “liberal” face to these thugs will gain you their support is extremely naive as these guys don’t care about your face: what they want is your submission.

    As for Putin, it could be, that he is, for now, on a footing of equal to the insiders of above, he must somehow understand(Putin gives a public impression to be cognitively superior to all other political tarts of the moment) that real problems are global, and Russian nationalism, or international expansion based on Russian nationalism are just a political tool to rally bulk humanity. Very similar to the palm oil, corn syrup and digital porn obese consumerism of the West promotion. At most bickering and infighting can be done by visible actors as Putin, Trump, Xi(affected indirectly), but there must be a scenario, and war cannot be anything more then policing.

    To be noticed, that it pleads for Saker’s intellectualism to correct and even reverse, after due analysis his opinions unlike a Tom Engelhardt(at that qualitative rather inferior). No “to big to fail” here. Let’s wait and see, how Saker’s intuition can take him into quantitative analysis of what moves beyond and against nationalist and EU, US, Russia, China dialectics. The old adagio of the information age: networks, was historically present in International Jewry. One can be a policeman, be a thief, but foremost one is a Jew.

    Honest writing of Saker.

    How good are these supranational, corporatacracy(another commenter), “globally organized elites” groups with better cohesion? To our definite impression, not good enough, though way above the bulk of humanity and most of the middle class media comprehension. Two singular dramas of our age, that will decide the twenty-first century. Better and not good enough. Only to be arrested by bringing in AI, eugenetics, rebranding goals and focus. It is in itself a pocket drama repeated over and over that analysis is mostly litterary, never relies on the best of information, is fragmented. Even today indexing big data lumps could solve this partly. Alternative media in the first place apply the same archaic methods while better tools are available. That said unz.com is above the fray in focussing and searching methods. It should spark some hidden outliers glued into the bulk of the deplorables by individual fate.

    War-ing and economics, the epistomology of politics, the focus of daily news, should be seen as consequences, not prime causes of attention. In the end they impose toxicity, migrations, excess population densities, excess total human numbers. The goal itself of humanity should be reasserted as quality of life for all standing and future humans. Then strategy and tactics derive from there. Why? Well the same supra national elites, the only ones that can take on the essentials tend to forget they are frogging in the same tub, that nature probably using more disruptive method will take care of the human plage if not.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    A thoughtful post.
    Perhaps a touch too thoughtful.

    Agree with the most of it.

    My feeling is that "supranational elites", and the rest coming with them, are simply an inevitability. A result of trends taken centuries to develop.

    Changing that path will need something extraordinary.

    What's that I have no idea.
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  23. @Quartermaster
    Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn't work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin's bald faced lies.

    The EU really can't deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

    The CIA seems to have spent five billion $ in Ukraine.
    Who wants to incorporate Ukraine in the west therefore is not clear, the USA, NATO or EU, or all of them ?
    In any case, many in Europe see Putin just as an honest gas supplier.
    Trump’s gas is much more expensive.

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    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    Sadly, for you, Saker, and others who seem to willfully mentally disabled, the 5 billion was not spent by the CIA and was spent over a period of years. Putin is anything but an honest gas supplier, as he has proven over and over and over and....
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  24. Heros says:

    The usual Saker

    Definitely. He stays well within the Judeo-Overton window. He is kosher, so to speak. Sure, like Alex Jones, he will make the occasional slap at Israel or Zionism, but he will not verge outside of the window’s “Nazi Germany was the ultimate evil” or the holy 6 million martyrs. I also have never read any of his work where he delves into 9/11, and what it means about everything that has happened since.

    You have three “not bad snippets” that I don’t really agree with:

    The EU leaders are nothing but a comprador elite which doesn’t give a damn about the opinions and interests of the people of Europe.

    It is not that they don’t give a damn, it is that they take their orders from a higher source. Euro-serfs see the coerced passage of Lisbon and Maastricht, the ongoing 3rd world invasion, the restriction of free speech, the increasing criminality, the ECB destruction and removal of elected officials in Greece and Italy. They know it is a sham, they just don’t understand why, because they are constantly being lied to. Saker is not helping here.

    The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella.

    Saker is not willing to tell us exactly who this entity is. He is not going to take us outside of the Judeo-Overton window.

    They do not want to humiliate us, they want to subdue us, solve their problems at our expense

    With this dog whistle he is treading on thin ice. Sure, “their problems” could describe past crimes like Maidan that may be catching up with them, but it could also cover such things as Gaza, the Liberty, the King David Hotel, or even the targeting of Nagasaki in 1945. As usual though, he won’t confront the serpent.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    The EU is based on the nonsense belief that Germany caused two world wars, and gassed six millon jews.
    The EU prevented and prevents a repetition.
    , @bj
    "targeting of Nagasaki in 1945".....

    "For targeting purposes, the bombing crew used St. Mary’s Urakami Cathedral, the largest Christian church in East Asia. At 11:02 a.m., on Aug. 9, 1945, when the bomb was dropped over the cathedral, Nagasaki was the most Christian city in Japan."

    https://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/09/the-very-un-christian-nagasaki-bomb/
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  25. http://www.achgut.com/artikel/wir_truemmerfrauen_nach_dem_merkelsturz

    Im Bundestag kämpfen Merkel und ihre Treuesten derweil darum, ihre Anti-Deutschland-Politik unter anderem gegen die CSU durchzusetzen – sogar in der CDU gibt es erste Mutige, die sich daran erinnern, wer sie bezahlt und wem sie eigentlich verpflichtet sind.

    Rough translation:
    ” In the German parliament Merkel and her supporters battle to continue their anti German policy against the CSU – even in the CDU (Merkel’s party) there are courageous people who thatremind Merkel by whom she is paid, and to who she has obligations. ”

    There are German rumours that Merkel will fall this week.
    Historians from time to time write how curious it is that apparently unrelated events in different parts of the world change history.
    I wonder if the Trump election with the realisation, long overdue, in Germany, that the migrants are a burden in stead of a contribution to the economy, may combine to Merkel’s fall,in her wake maybe the implosion of the EU, and the end of the euro.
    It was Merkel who prevented Greece leaving the euro.

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  26. @Heros

    The usual Saker
     
    Definitely. He stays well within the Judeo-Overton window. He is kosher, so to speak. Sure, like Alex Jones, he will make the occasional slap at Israel or Zionism, but he will not verge outside of the window's "Nazi Germany was the ultimate evil" or the holy 6 million martyrs. I also have never read any of his work where he delves into 9/11, and what it means about everything that has happened since.

    You have three "not bad snippets" that I don't really agree with:

    The EU leaders are nothing but a comprador elite which doesn’t give a damn about the opinions and interests of the people of Europe.
     
    It is not that they don't give a damn, it is that they take their orders from a higher source. Euro-serfs see the coerced passage of Lisbon and Maastricht, the ongoing 3rd world invasion, the restriction of free speech, the increasing criminality, the ECB destruction and removal of elected officials in Greece and Italy. They know it is a sham, they just don't understand why, because they are constantly being lied to. Saker is not helping here.

    The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella.
     
    Saker is not willing to tell us exactly who this entity is. He is not going to take us outside of the Judeo-Overton window.

    They do not want to humiliate us, they want to subdue us, solve their problems at our expense
     
    With this dog whistle he is treading on thin ice. Sure, "their problems" could describe past crimes like Maidan that may be catching up with them, but it could also cover such things as Gaza, the Liberty, the King David Hotel, or even the targeting of Nagasaki in 1945. As usual though, he won't confront the serpent.

    The EU is based on the nonsense belief that Germany caused two world wars, and gassed six millon jews.
    The EU prevented and prevents a repetition.

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    • Replies: @Jake
    Yes, but also while allowing Germany to dominate the EU in every way, especially economically to the detriment of other EU states.
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  27. Jake says:

    “At best, the EU can be considered a US protectorate/colony, with some subjects “more equal than others” (say, the UK versus Greece).”

    That nails it as well as it can be done, though I’d say that some states are far more equal than others and add Germany to the UK in that category.

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  28. Jake says:
    @Cyrano

    Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, “gave” Crimea to the Ukraine in I think it was 1954—when Ukraine, also known as Malarossiya, was, BTW, part of the USSR.
     
    When Khrushchev "gave" Crimea to Ukraine , never in his wildest dreams did he imagined (nor did he wanted) Ukraine to split from Russia and take Crimea with them. Khruschev was a true USSR patriot - he believed in and loved USSR.

    Crimea was supposed to be the dowry in the marriage between Ukraine and Russia into USSR. The fact that later Ukraine decided that it wants to be a ho and have unprotected (by Russia) sex with anyone who will want them, means the deal is off - the dowry goes back to the cheated husband - Russia, and the ho can roam the streets desolate and begging for mercy.

    That post made me laugh. Humor is always most welcome in these matters.

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    • Replies: @Cyrano
    Thanks. I appreciate it. I try to use humor sometimes about things that make me angry.
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  29. Jake says:

    I would guess that the primary reason so many people make silly negative posts here, and elsewhere, about something The Saker writes is the same reason we had so many make similarly silly negative posts about Paul Craig Roberts: the man has told too much truth that really matters.

    The 3 Card Monte game is played to steal blind the audience by making certain it never gets a handle on where things are and how they are related. And the answer is always right there, hiding in plain sight. But the audience’s attention is always distracted.

    The Saker has nailed the most important part with his term Anglo-Zionist Empire. That starts the more astute persons thinking about the history of WASP culture from its sources through its steps delivering the world to the horrors all around us. And so somehow that thinking must be contained and then snuffed out. And that can be done by denying the direct and ancient and indispensable tie between WASP and Jew in terms of empire determined to control the globe.

    He who sees part, even half, might as well see nothing. Therefore, Jewish groups are like girls giddy over frilly new pink panties to use venues such as this forum to blame it all exclusively on the Jews. Jews thereby get more pity by posting fake-hate and also get the big win of keeping people distracted so they remain fleeced and culturally neutered.

    If you cannot discern the WASP problem and accept that it must be addressed, all your efforts will be no better than wasted time, energy, and money.

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    • Replies: @m___
    White people from European descend have been sold out by their own elites. White elites have lost their voting rights to Anglo-Jews. By bringing white elites to kneel little results. From rulers to puppets, miserable bunch.

    Our take, democracy that old cow, capitalism and at it's low end consumerism come to blame. The nimbleness, the consciousness, the elegance simply is not there.
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  30. Jake says:
    @jilles dykstra
    The EU is based on the nonsense belief that Germany caused two world wars, and gassed six millon jews.
    The EU prevented and prevents a repetition.

    Yes, but also while allowing Germany to dominate the EU in every way, especially economically to the detriment of other EU states.

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  31. Ger says:
    @Quartermaster
    Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn't work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin's bald faced lies.

    The EU really can't deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

    A more reasonable resolution would be for the American/Nazi Consortium to return Ukraine back to the people to elect a legitimate government to restore sovereignty. It is difficult to negotiate with ‘bastards’ controlled by the Western Warmongers. As for Crimea, witness one of the best examples of ‘democracy’ when the people took matters into their hands and voted to leave the American/Nazi controlled Ukraine. Given the option to live in a failed state or enjoy the good life on the beaches of Crimea …. which would you choose?

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    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    A legit government was elected after Yanukovich decided to run to his buddy and protector, Putin. Nazi's do not control Ukraine any more than the control Bermuda. Russia is far closer to failed state status than Ukraine, although Putin is trying to push things in that direction. Like most thugs, he can't abide anyone being honestly more prosperous than he.

    Those beaches in Crimea are increasingly a mess under Putin's occupiers. Crimea chose Ukraine almost 20 years ago. In an honest referendum, which was not what took place in 2014, unless you would consider Poland under Nazi Occupation voting to become a permanent part of the fatherland, and honest referendum.

    The only Nazis in all this are in Moscow.
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  32. Miro23 says:

    The best examples are, of course, the three Baltic statelets, but the #1 position has to go to the “fiercely patriotic Poles” who are now willing to actually pay Uncle Sam to be militarily occupied (even though the very same Uncle Sam is trying to racketeer them for billions of dollars).

    Talking about individual EU countries, the Poles need to realize that they’re no longer dealing with Imperial Russia or the Soviet Union, and try exploring avenues for productive co-operation with Russia. It’s working with “historic enemy” Germany, so why not with “historic enemy” Russia?

    There are plenty of opportunities, with the first one surely being shutting down US bases on Polish territory and getting US missiles out of Poland. The current USA and the UK are under UZA management which is clearly hostile to everything modern Poland stands for.

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  33. The EU was designed by the Zionist central bankers to be one of the stepping stones to a Zionist controlled one world government along with the North American Union which is still to come after the economic collapse of the U.S. which is still in the plans.

    Russia does not need the EU or the U.S. or any of the other Zionist central banker controlled colonies, for in reality that is what the EU and the U.S. are, however the EU needs Russia for nat gas and oil to keep the lights on and so Russia has the upper hand in this situation.

    The Zionists are trying to provoke a war with Russia in the Ukraine and Syria and Iran in the hopes of eventually being in a position to attack Russia from Iran if that gov is overthrown by the U.S. / Israeli/ British created ISIS aka AL CIADA and so the long range plan is a Zionist overthrow of the Russian gov. Putin is well aware of this plan and will never let Syria or Iran be taken over by the Zionists.

    The Zionists will never rest in their drive for a Zionist controlled ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT and anyone who doubts that Zionists control the U.S. just consider that Israel and the Zionist controlled deep state did 911 and got away with it, case in point.

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  34. This sounds like panic. The author seems to believe that Putin is moving towards the EU. That, of course, is the nightmare scenario for the US hegemonists. Putin’s role is to act as a battering ram to break up the EU and thereby copperfasten US global hegemony for the foreseeable future in return for such crumbs as the US chooses to throw to him.

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    • Agree: Catiline
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  35. bj says:
    @Heros

    The usual Saker
     
    Definitely. He stays well within the Judeo-Overton window. He is kosher, so to speak. Sure, like Alex Jones, he will make the occasional slap at Israel or Zionism, but he will not verge outside of the window's "Nazi Germany was the ultimate evil" or the holy 6 million martyrs. I also have never read any of his work where he delves into 9/11, and what it means about everything that has happened since.

    You have three "not bad snippets" that I don't really agree with:

    The EU leaders are nothing but a comprador elite which doesn’t give a damn about the opinions and interests of the people of Europe.
     
    It is not that they don't give a damn, it is that they take their orders from a higher source. Euro-serfs see the coerced passage of Lisbon and Maastricht, the ongoing 3rd world invasion, the restriction of free speech, the increasing criminality, the ECB destruction and removal of elected officials in Greece and Italy. They know it is a sham, they just don't understand why, because they are constantly being lied to. Saker is not helping here.

    The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella.
     
    Saker is not willing to tell us exactly who this entity is. He is not going to take us outside of the Judeo-Overton window.

    They do not want to humiliate us, they want to subdue us, solve their problems at our expense
     
    With this dog whistle he is treading on thin ice. Sure, "their problems" could describe past crimes like Maidan that may be catching up with them, but it could also cover such things as Gaza, the Liberty, the King David Hotel, or even the targeting of Nagasaki in 1945. As usual though, he won't confront the serpent.

    “targeting of Nagasaki in 1945″…..

    “For targeting purposes, the bombing crew used St. Mary’s Urakami Cathedral, the largest Christian church in East Asia. At 11:02 a.m., on Aug. 9, 1945, when the bomb was dropped over the cathedral, Nagasaki was the most Christian city in Japan.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/09/the-very-un-christian-nagasaki-bomb/

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  36. Renoman says:

    Lotta Yankee trolls on this one.

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  37. eah says:

    Not while the EU is run by women and fags, which is the case today.

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    • Replies: @eah
    Roth: Abgeordnete müssen bei WM in Russland Haltung zeigen und Transsexuelle treffen

    Claudia Roth, of the Greens and VP of the German Parliament (Bundestag), says more or less that German officials who attend the World Cup should not show or express approval for Putin and his regime -- oh, and while there they should meet with trannies ("Transsexuelle treffen").

    You could not make this shit up.
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  38. annamaria says:
    @Quartermaster
    Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn't work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin's bald faced lies.

    The EU really can't deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

    Hey, Quartermaster, why don’t you tell us more about the amazing progress achieved by Ukraine after the Kagans-sponsored revolution of 2014? For instance, you could tell us (proudly?) about the rise of neo-Nazi power in Ukraine and about certain Kolomojsky, the Ukrainian/Israeli thug, and his financing of the Azov battalion.
    The EU countries put people in prison for questioning the tight official narrative/numbers of holocaust biz.
    The same AngloZionist “elites” are content with the desecration of Jewish cemeteries in Ukraine by the local neo-Nazis: http://www.stalkerzone.org/banderists-came-ukraine-march-center-odessa/
    “Antisemitic Hate Crimes Thrive in Ukraine:” https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/04/21/antisemitic-hate-crimes-thrive-in-ukraine/
    “Symbols of the 1st Galician SS Division are not considered to be Nazi symbols in Ukraine:” http://eu.eot.su/2017/05/20/symbols-of-the-1st-galician-ss-division-are-not-considered-to-be-nazi-symbols-in-ukraine/
    “The roots of fascism in Ukraine: From Nazi collaboration to Maidan:” http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

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    • Replies: @eah
    desecration of Jewish cemeteries...“Antisemitic Hate Crimes Thrive in Ukraine:” ...“Symbols of the 1st Galician SS Division are not considered to be Nazi symbols in Ukraine:”...“The roots of fascism in Ukraine: From Nazi collaboration to Maidan:”

    Boo hoo -- it's none of our goddamn business -- and get the fuck out of here with that alarmist Jew guilt-mongering bullshit -- we've all had enough of that.

    , @Wally
    Yawn. Who benefits?

    Staged 'hate crimes' are the norm. "Anti-semitism" is a racket profitable for Jews.

    In summary, there were the ‘Nazis’ with the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    www.codoh.com
    , @Quartermaster
    So, you want me to lie like Saker? Sorry, ain't happening. Put your lies where the sun don't shine.
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  39. annamaria says:
    @byrresheim
    As long as the Author keeps talking about Ukronazis, we know that he is not at all prepared to see any problems on the Russian side at all.

    Which serves devalue his argument, even if there are a lot of valid points otherwise.

    What is wrong with using the word “Ukronazis?”
    How would you name the happy warriors beholden to the memory of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician)?

    http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/stepan-bandera-nationalist-euromaidan-right-sector/

    “The newly formed Ukrainian state will work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation.
    The Ukrainian People’s Revolutionary Army which has been formed on the Ukrainian lands, will continue to fight with the Allied German Army against Moscovite occupation for a sovereign and united State and a new order in the whole world.
    Long live the Ukrainian Sovereign United Ukraine! Long live the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists! Long live the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and the Ukrainian people – STEPAN BANDERA” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Ukrainian_State_Act

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  40. eah says:
    @eah
    Not while the EU is run by women and fags, which is the case today.

    Roth: Abgeordnete müssen bei WM in Russland Haltung zeigen und Transsexuelle treffen

    Claudia Roth, of the Greens and VP of the German Parliament (Bundestag), says more or less that German officials who attend the World Cup should not show or express approval for Putin and his regime — oh, and while there they should meet with trannies (“Transsexuelle treffen”).

    You could not make this shit up.

    Read More
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  41. eah says:
    @annamaria
    Hey, Quartermaster, why don't you tell us more about the amazing progress achieved by Ukraine after the Kagans-sponsored revolution of 2014? For instance, you could tell us (proudly?) about the rise of neo-Nazi power in Ukraine and about certain Kolomojsky, the Ukrainian/Israeli thug, and his financing of the Azov battalion.
    The EU countries put people in prison for questioning the tight official narrative/numbers of holocaust biz.
    The same AngloZionist "elites" are content with the desecration of Jewish cemeteries in Ukraine by the local neo-Nazis: http://www.stalkerzone.org/banderists-came-ukraine-march-center-odessa/
    "Antisemitic Hate Crimes Thrive in Ukraine:" https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/04/21/antisemitic-hate-crimes-thrive-in-ukraine/
    "Symbols of the 1st Galician SS Division are not considered to be Nazi symbols in Ukraine:" http://eu.eot.su/2017/05/20/symbols-of-the-1st-galician-ss-division-are-not-considered-to-be-nazi-symbols-in-ukraine/
    "The roots of fascism in Ukraine: From Nazi collaboration to Maidan:" http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

    desecration of Jewish cemeteries…“Antisemitic Hate Crimes Thrive in Ukraine:” …“Symbols of the 1st Galician SS Division are not considered to be Nazi symbols in Ukraine:”…“The roots of fascism in Ukraine: From Nazi collaboration to Maidan:”

    Boo hoo — it’s none of our goddamn business — and get the fuck out of here with that alarmist Jew guilt-mongering bullshit — we’ve all had enough of that.

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  42. Anon[340] • Disclaimer says:

    Of sure, the NATO figurehead

    Of course

    “does not comply with the Mink Agreements”

    Minsk

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  43. Porky won’t do it. He prefers his intestines in his gut and not strung out along the road from Kiev to Kandahar.

    One Brexit Dividend you can take to the bank is the forthcoming Great Anglo-Russian Peace, Friendship, Defence and Economic Co-operation Treaty. It’s only a matter of time, and changed perceptions.

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  44. Beckow says:
    @renfro

    Saker is correct that EU countries will not work with Russia. Blaming it all on Washington was always stupid
     
    Bullshit. ...try to keep up with whats actually happening.

    U.S. Is Trying to Kill Major Gas Deal Between Russia and Germany
    By Tom O'Connor On 5/18/18 at 2:41 PM
    http://www.newsweek.com/us-trying-kill-major-gas-deal-between-russia-germany-934603
    The U.S. has warned both Russia and Germany against pursuing a planned gas pipeline that would run between the two countries, threatening to impose sanctions and claiming the project would threaten the security of its European allies.
    Construction has recently begun for the Nord Stream 2 project, a planned pipeline that would extend from Russia along an existing pipeline through the Baltic Sea into northeastern Germany. Once finished, Nord Stream 2 would reportedly double the amount of gas that Russia could provide Europe. State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary Sandra Oudkirk told reporters in Berlin Thursday that the project could bolster Russia's "malign influence" in the region and that Washington was "exerting as much persuasive power" as it could to stop it, according to the Associated Press.

    Europe in diplomatic push to ease Russia sanctions | Financial Times
    https://www.ft.com/content/9b9bbd3c-44a5-11e8-93cf-67ac3a6482fdApr 20, 2018 - A Europe-wide diplomatic push is under way to persuade the Trump administration to ease US sanctions targeting Russia, as fears mount that ...

    We are talking apples and oranges. EU wants cheap, reliable energy from Russia and to export to Russia as much as possible without interference from US. That is pure business. But the dominant political forces in EU are anti-Russia, some because they are fed by the security-military-academic spending, some because they ‘studied’ and were politically formed in US or UK. Some because that’s just the way they are.

    There is a strong, EU domestic anti-Russian population based on hundreds of years of history, resentment over losses (Germany, Poland, Sweden, Finland), self-brainwashing about perceived abuse (Poland, Baltics, eastern Europeans in general), hatred and contempt towards anything ‘eastern’, and the traditional anglo anti-Russian policies. Recently new emotional hatreds have been added with endless demonising Russia about xenophobia, hooligans, gays, stray dogs, anything the creative propagandists can push. Most Europeans turn out on reflection to be quite gullible and stupid.

    There are a few minor exceptions and some Latin nations are more level headed. There is also a minority view in the German world, mostly based on their business realism that is neutral toward Russia, but not pro-Russian. There will be no political rapprochement between EU and Russia. There will be better business relations because water flows downhill and EU-Russia economic ties are such an obvious fit. The cultural hatred and political hostility will go on.

    After WWII it took most Europeans less than a generation to revert to the traditional anti-Russian attitudes. In some cases, nations that were literally saved from extermination were more resentful than grateful. In Poland it took less than a year, in Czech Republic 20 years, but the old visceral hatreds emerged again. My advise to Russia would be to mind its own business and not try to sacrifice for the others or to help them. It has always backfired because the cultural milieu in Europe is naturally resentful of Russia and the east in general. Business doesn’t change that.

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    • Replies: @byrresheim

    In Poland it took less than a year, in Czech Republic 20 years, but the old visceral hatreds emerged again.
     
    Poland was not literally saved from extermination but went out of the frying pan into the fire. It took less than a year, indeed, and if you cared what happened in that year, you might write with a bit more respect for the victims of those Russian crimes.

    Perhaps raping and murdering fewer people might have done wonders for the Russian reputation in Eastern Europe, poor little innocents?

    You know why this whining about contempt and visceral hatred towards anything Russian is so horribly annoying?

    Because Central Europe actually needs Russian help against the rapacious West and this whining shows that you simply refuse to understand that there might be a true core to Eastern European resentment. And, by the way, Russia needs Central Europe as well.

    No solution in sight.
    , @Kiza
    Regarding the propaganda canard of the supposed culling of stray dogs in Russia, my first thought was - Kim Jong-un proscribing 15 hairstyles to women in North Korea, the execution of his own uncle by throwing him to hungry dogs and other similar swill for the dumb Western masses and their equally dumb Eastern European associates. It is so horribly demeaning to fall for such shit, but many “intellectuals” do. As I usually say, being exceptionally dumb is the only true exceptionalism of the West.

    The most interesting thing is that Russia never engages in such dumb smear. Maybe the Russian leadership and even oligarchs/media owners respects the Russian people enough not to feed them such swill.
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  45. Cyrano says:
    @Jake
    That post made me laugh. Humor is always most welcome in these matters.

    Thanks. I appreciate it. I try to use humor sometimes about things that make me angry.

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  46. RobinG says:
    @Kiza
    Excellent comment as usual Beckow, I could have typed the same. In fact, I have been commenting online since 1992 that neither EU, nor most European states can be friends of Russia. This was based on how those treated Yugoslavia/Serbia during the recent Balkan wars that the same entities helped initiate. Because Serbia is Russia without nuclear weapons. Russia would have gotten exactly the same treatment (Barbarossa 2) as Yugoslavia if it did not have them. Nobody expected Russia to recover so quickly from Yeltsin and even develop the world leading stand-off weapons on a budget. This is the only reason that Barbarossa 2 will never happen. But they cannot stop hoping for a US-lead miracle.

    Yet, the economic interest is there and if China and Russia manage to economically integrate Europe and Asia, then the Euro-doggies will stop yapping and biting at the Russian heels and will fall in line. What else could one expect from such pathetic shameless trash? Give the One-Road another 15 years and watch this unfurle.

    Finally, although I believed that Ukronazis would attack Novorussians, I now think that Ukraine may have run out of suicidal dumb maniacs. It is much cheaper to make noise and beat your Galician chest then to engage the enemy protected by Russia. Ukraine is, unfortunately, already a total economic basket case, plus all One-Road plans circumvent it (as MH17 should have, due to instability). Will there ever be a better example than Ukraine of the benevolent influence of the Anglo-Zionist on a country?

    The Anglo-Zionists versus OneRoad.
    For more information disregard the dumb title and watch this Pepe Escobar interview: http://thesaker.is/interview-of-pepe-escobar-the-world-is-waiting-for-the-apocalypse-if-there-is-a-conflict-between-america-and-russia/
    I watched his other interviews and it is interesting how Pepe is not so open when interviewed by the Westerners.

    Close Relations: CHECHNYA & SAUDI ARABIA

    Does [anyone] know much about the “republic’s relations” that brought Kadyrov to the Kremlin together with MBS?

    From Paraguay to North Korea: World Leaders Come to Visit Russia on Eve of World Cup

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  47. Pirelli says:

    Does anyone think The Saker is intelligent?

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Sorry to disappoint, but he is more intelligent than 99% of the people questioning his intelligence. Mind you, I am saying this as a person who often disagrees with the Saker.
    , @VojkanM
    Does anyone think his articles are worth reading and discussing? Judging from the comments section, the answer seems to be yes. And I really don't care to know his IQ.
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  48. peterAUS says:
    @m___
    Dramatic shift in analysis of Saker,

    As yours truly, we noticed the drastic shift as to pointing to supranational guidance of international political events. As for his mention, blaming Trump and Netanyahu to be suppreme leaders and deciders, we see them rather as spokespersons, blowing and hissing publicly the script of what Saker calls the Anglo-Jewish maffia, the only subgroup that sorted for quality, not quantity in strategy(global evidently and necessarily) and membership for in-group only benefit. Elitist, subjectively better organized than any entity other, territorially mostly independent in case of emergency, and moral conviction based on historical Judaist values, strategies and tactics. Play all sides and stay invisible.

    Below the prudent lines of Saker quoted.

    The AngloZionist Empire is not based in the US, or in the EU, or Israel, or anywhere else on the planet. It is a trans-national entity with regional variations and which includes different interest groups under its umbrella. You can think of it as a gigantic criminal gang racketeering the entire planet for “protection”. To think that by presenting a “liberal” face to these thugs will gain you their support is extremely naive as these guys don’t care about your face: what they want is your submission.
     
    As for Putin, it could be, that he is, for now, on a footing of equal to the insiders of above, he must somehow understand(Putin gives a public impression to be cognitively superior to all other political tarts of the moment) that real problems are global, and Russian nationalism, or international expansion based on Russian nationalism are just a political tool to rally bulk humanity. Very similar to the palm oil, corn syrup and digital porn obese consumerism of the West promotion. At most bickering and infighting can be done by visible actors as Putin, Trump, Xi(affected indirectly), but there must be a scenario, and war cannot be anything more then policing.

    To be noticed, that it pleads for Saker's intellectualism to correct and even reverse, after due analysis his opinions unlike a Tom Engelhardt(at that qualitative rather inferior). No "to big to fail" here. Let's wait and see, how Saker's intuition can take him into quantitative analysis of what moves beyond and against nationalist and EU, US, Russia, China dialectics. The old adagio of the information age: networks, was historically present in International Jewry. One can be a policeman, be a thief, but foremost one is a Jew.

    Honest writing of Saker.

    How good are these supranational, corporatacracy(another commenter), "globally organized elites" groups with better cohesion? To our definite impression, not good enough, though way above the bulk of humanity and most of the middle class media comprehension. Two singular dramas of our age, that will decide the twenty-first century. Better and not good enough. Only to be arrested by bringing in AI, eugenetics, rebranding goals and focus. It is in itself a pocket drama repeated over and over that analysis is mostly litterary, never relies on the best of information, is fragmented. Even today indexing big data lumps could solve this partly. Alternative media in the first place apply the same archaic methods while better tools are available. That said unz.com is above the fray in focussing and searching methods. It should spark some hidden outliers glued into the bulk of the deplorables by individual fate.

    War-ing and economics, the epistomology of politics, the focus of daily news, should be seen as consequences, not prime causes of attention. In the end they impose toxicity, migrations, excess population densities, excess total human numbers. The goal itself of humanity should be reasserted as quality of life for all standing and future humans. Then strategy and tactics derive from there. Why? Well the same supra national elites, the only ones that can take on the essentials tend to forget they are frogging in the same tub, that nature probably using more disruptive method will take care of the human plage if not.

    A thoughtful post.
    Perhaps a touch too thoughtful.

    Agree with the most of it.

    My feeling is that “supranational elites”, and the rest coming with them, are simply an inevitability. A result of trends taken centuries to develop.

    Changing that path will need something extraordinary.

    What’s that I have no idea.

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  49. Dante says:
    @Gordo
    The only thing that will save Europe and Europeans is to reverse the African and Asian immigration.

    For that I would partner with Satan.

    But Satan is already on the other side.

    Yes I agree and I am certainly pleased to see Europeans waking up to that reality as we speak, There is an increasing trend towards nationalist or nationalist inspired parties emerging all over Europe. It would appear Europeans are waking up and beginning to take our own side

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  50. chris says:

    Just like the US and Israeli leaders can disagree and, on occasion, fight each other, that does not at all mean that somehow they are not fundamentally joined at the hip.

    This is misinterpreting the relationship completely, and we all know it! It’s like a store owner saying he’s having disagreements with the mob boss. He may well have these ‘disagreements’ but he’s not likely to ever win one of them! The disagreement is likely to only involve whether he pays more, much more, or whether he winds up dead.

    The EU is equally clueless with regard to their position vis-a-vis Russia, as the US is with regard to their position in the Middle East. The US and EU lackeys don’t even want to know what the long-term strategic plans are, both are going to be told what comes next on a strictly need-to-know basis, they’ll be told how high to jump, and they’ll both be more than happy to do so; after all, they were both groomed to play this role.

    What would be the purpose of a politician or military strategist taking initiatives in the Middle East (for US or with respect to Russia for the EU) without checking in with their respective bosses first? If they says something the respective bosses don’t like, they’ll just be humiliated (at best). So it would make perfect sense to just ask for the next strategic steps directly, get them from the horses’ mouth as it were, instead of trying to second guess your boss.

    The US strategy vis-a-vis Russia is, of course, also run by Israel. As a wholly owned and operated subsidiary of the Israelis, it would be impossible for the US to be running its own strategy in Europe and potentially jeopardize the entire enchilada ! Israel is not going to let some moron in the US muck up their very expensive project by bogging the US down in some useless conflict with Russia, which would reduce the US readiness for action in the Middle East.

    No, the loud neocon amen chorus against Russia is a very strong indicator that US policy there is not some special project but a very deliberate, coordinated effort; no other explanation makes sense. And looking for clues to this strategy in the US is as futile as asking the EU footsies for their long-term strategy with respect to Russia.

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  51. Many European countries will keep buying Russian oil and gas, unless they are prepared for the death of their industry. Many European companies will continue to participate in various Russia-lead projects for profit. Does Russia need anything else from Europe? Not as far as I can see. Will EU “leaders” remain American poodles? Likely, but who cares? Europe is dying an inglorious largely self-inflicted death, whereas Russia is rising along with China, South Korea, and several other countries. Natural selection at work.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Does Russia need anything else from Europe? Not as far as I can see. Will EU “leaders” remain American poodles? Likely, but who cares?
     
    Excellent point.
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  52. @Pirelli
    Does anyone think The Saker is intelligent?

    Sorry to disappoint, but he is more intelligent than 99% of the people questioning his intelligence. Mind you, I am saying this as a person who often disagrees with the Saker.

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    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    Sorry to disappoint, but he is more intelligent than 99% of the seven people who agree with him. Mind you, I am saying this as a person who often disagrees with the Saker.
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  53. m___ says:
    @Jake
    I would guess that the primary reason so many people make silly negative posts here, and elsewhere, about something The Saker writes is the same reason we had so many make similarly silly negative posts about Paul Craig Roberts: the man has told too much truth that really matters.

    The 3 Card Monte game is played to steal blind the audience by making certain it never gets a handle on where things are and how they are related. And the answer is always right there, hiding in plain sight. But the audience's attention is always distracted.

    The Saker has nailed the most important part with his term Anglo-Zionist Empire. That starts the more astute persons thinking about the history of WASP culture from its sources through its steps delivering the world to the horrors all around us. And so somehow that thinking must be contained and then snuffed out. And that can be done by denying the direct and ancient and indispensable tie between WASP and Jew in terms of empire determined to control the globe.

    He who sees part, even half, might as well see nothing. Therefore, Jewish groups are like girls giddy over frilly new pink panties to use venues such as this forum to blame it all exclusively on the Jews. Jews thereby get more pity by posting fake-hate and also get the big win of keeping people distracted so they remain fleeced and culturally neutered.

    If you cannot discern the WASP problem and accept that it must be addressed, all your efforts will be no better than wasted time, energy, and money.

    White people from European descend have been sold out by their own elites. White elites have lost their voting rights to Anglo-Jews. By bringing white elites to kneel little results. From rulers to puppets, miserable bunch.

    Our take, democracy that old cow, capitalism and at it’s low end consumerism come to blame. The nimbleness, the consciousness, the elegance simply is not there.

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  54. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
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  55. Beckow says:
    @Kiza
    Excellent comment as usual Beckow, I could have typed the same. In fact, I have been commenting online since 1992 that neither EU, nor most European states can be friends of Russia. This was based on how those treated Yugoslavia/Serbia during the recent Balkan wars that the same entities helped initiate. Because Serbia is Russia without nuclear weapons. Russia would have gotten exactly the same treatment (Barbarossa 2) as Yugoslavia if it did not have them. Nobody expected Russia to recover so quickly from Yeltsin and even develop the world leading stand-off weapons on a budget. This is the only reason that Barbarossa 2 will never happen. But they cannot stop hoping for a US-lead miracle.

    Yet, the economic interest is there and if China and Russia manage to economically integrate Europe and Asia, then the Euro-doggies will stop yapping and biting at the Russian heels and will fall in line. What else could one expect from such pathetic shameless trash? Give the One-Road another 15 years and watch this unfurle.

    Finally, although I believed that Ukronazis would attack Novorussians, I now think that Ukraine may have run out of suicidal dumb maniacs. It is much cheaper to make noise and beat your Galician chest then to engage the enemy protected by Russia. Ukraine is, unfortunately, already a total economic basket case, plus all One-Road plans circumvent it (as MH17 should have, due to instability). Will there ever be a better example than Ukraine of the benevolent influence of the Anglo-Zionist on a country?

    The Anglo-Zionists versus OneRoad.
    For more information disregard the dumb title and watch this Pepe Escobar interview: http://thesaker.is/interview-of-pepe-escobar-the-world-is-waiting-for-the-apocalypse-if-there-is-a-conflict-between-america-and-russia/
    I watched his other interviews and it is interesting how Pepe is not so open when interviewed by the Westerners.

    Thanks. Current trends strengthen Euro-asia (and thus China and Russia), so West will have to do something, otherwise they get weaker over time.

    There has been a maximalist group in the West who believe that ‘anything is possible‘, that even with nukes it is possible to defeat and dismember Russia. The key factor would be internal instability inside Russia. Maidan, Saaksavilli’s mad dash in 2008, and the support for Caucas separatists were all done with that in mind. It has mostly failed with Russia becoming more united in the process.

    Failure has never discouraged true fanatics. It is a mistake to see them only in Washington and London, there are plenty of them in positions of power in Berlin, Paris, Warsaw, and even Stockholm. And in Washington the loudest ones are often bitter ethnics from eastern Europe. I honestly think it is about 50-50 whether this gets escalated beyond all reason and we face a catastrophe (so I admit that I don’t know :). On the one hand there are the nukes. On the other, it is so hard to climb down for any ideological fanatic. They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time. And then Putin happened and the dream has been slowly dying. Imagine the painful void that they have to live with every day. So they hate. Any concession to people who hate you is counter-productive, thus there will be no deal between Russia-EU. Only obvious trade.

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    • Replies: @Cyrano

    They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time.
     
    Stalin once wrote an article “Dizzy with success”. The bombing of Beograd was the American “dizzy with success” moment. They thought that Russia is going to be cowed with that bombing. It was “look what we can do to your closest ally” scenario.

    Yeah, they really managed to frighten Russia, they scared them so much, that they brought Putin to power. Putin came to power directly as a result of the bombing of Serbia.

    Why Serbia had to be bombed? Because it’s the only Slavic nation that has never gone against Russia , and – you can call me a Nostradamus on this one – they never will. That’s why they had to be punished.

    Every time they try to intimidate Russia, they dig a deeper hole for themselves. Gruzia in 2008 and 2014 Ukraine didn’t bring them any closer to the success that they like to get dizzy over – capitulation of Russia. The reason why their bellowed capitalist project will collapse is the same one that caused the collapse of the USSR – inability to serve the needs of the people any longer.
    , @m___
    The Ghengis Khan advisery board: kill all Russians, rape the women or enslave the Russians to farm their labour. The latter was advised then as to the best way of procedure. The shift was made within a single generation.

    Trade, industry, accelerated financial capitalism, as faulted as may be, is mostly a single step ahead of war(destruction of assets, is a primitive form of management, and probably better then the capitalist supposition of infinite resources, so the comparison is simplistic at best). That leaves policing, which can only be done by global consent with regard to Russia. Putin and his engine of operatives is a voice with vote inside the supranational group of deciders.

    So the public attitudes to Russia do not matter much, privately there is to be no killing, no raping, but infighting as to who gets what on executive level. Ultimately when our consultants and experts to the powerful are upgraded, the pageanism of chest thumping will take a second seat. War is obsolete, like it or not. Subjectively the menace of violence and conquista does less and less convince the nucleus of power thinking, plays little in elitist gain mongering. To give it new life, let's take on exploring the universe seriously.

    Again the public side of it all, the "how do we look" grooming and concern, of the supranationals is also on the way out. There are in the make, and some exist in embrionic stage, exponentially better ways to herd the existing bulk populations.

    Back to general history of mankind. Put simplistically. War is hunter gathering, farming is trade and capitalism and at the lower end consumerism, an upgrade. Is it really? Not really, the variable of finite resources is left out of the picture, toxicity, the liability to asset overclock of population numbers, indirect consequences as our cherished immigration prove the limits of the scheme. Again better but not good enough.

    The elites are hardheadedly wrong in our opinion to insist in caduc, broken methods and garbage arguments between insiders. Migrations is a shortsighted tool that only leads to overheating in the medium term. Much like financial capitalism, augmenting volume of transaction, acceleration of transactions. Ultimately both butt into nothing more then a Ponzi scheme finale(sort of like the Worlcup of football inversed) and "investors"(the now Russia China and partners taking losses and reposition to bargain with the West) bailing out. Hence the degrading of the dollar as to it's role as a reserve currency. What does not transit the US Central Bank cannot be cooked.

    What the theoretical economists on duty call "cycles" is better described as spongeing the blackboard and starting anew, now the US is no longer in that position of headmaster. In the backrow a sly Putin, for one, is toying with a scheme of his own. So does Xi. They all know there is no element of surprise any longer, all will have to consent and come up with something better or ever shorter term apply the same hammer. Sneak up and apply the exact same slugging will go in "cycles". The game of the humanoid is at the phase, that should be concluded before mid-century, of "winner takes all". Who is going to be the one standing? A fractionary group, a minor percentage of the global population. Us deplorables, our best of trade middle class hookers, for certain will be herded into something asceptic, controlled and positioned. Thanks our by then biologically distinct social group of elites for that, not God nor Providence. Or chaos. Let's pray for chaos?

    Nobody ever was right in predicting the outcome of the future. Some were perfectly right in pointing to tendencies and their indicative measures of interaction. The rest is better done by computers then commenters and bloggers.

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  56. @”everybody will blame Russia…”

    so What !?

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  57. slorter says:
    @Quartermaster
    Saker, you are utterly clueless. The world doesn't work in accordance with your fantasies. The EU has been far from clueless on Ukraine, but you are certainly clueless, having bought Putin's bald faced lies.

    The EU really can't deal much with Russia until Putin gets his troops out of all Ukraine and, yes, that includes Crimea which he stole.

    You give a reply like that and call him clueless and expect us to consider what you have said in reply! Write something intelligent to consider!!

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    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    So, you swallow the ravings of a misinformed man and you expect me to present something "intelligent" in response. I did, and you have problems with it. No surprise to see in someone who swallows Saker's junk whole with no critical thinking applied.

    Anyone that has made the effort to keep with what is actually happening over there will swallow Saker's trash.
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  58. Cyrano says:
    @Beckow
    Thanks. Current trends strengthen Euro-asia (and thus China and Russia), so West will have to do something, otherwise they get weaker over time.

    There has been a maximalist group in the West who believe that 'anything is possible', that even with nukes it is possible to defeat and dismember Russia. The key factor would be internal instability inside Russia. Maidan, Saaksavilli's mad dash in 2008, and the support for Caucas separatists were all done with that in mind. It has mostly failed with Russia becoming more united in the process.

    Failure has never discouraged true fanatics. It is a mistake to see them only in Washington and London, there are plenty of them in positions of power in Berlin, Paris, Warsaw, and even Stockholm. And in Washington the loudest ones are often bitter ethnics from eastern Europe. I honestly think it is about 50-50 whether this gets escalated beyond all reason and we face a catastrophe (so I admit that I don't know :). On the one hand there are the nukes. On the other, it is so hard to climb down for any ideological fanatic. They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time. And then Putin happened and the dream has been slowly dying. Imagine the painful void that they have to live with every day. So they hate. Any concession to people who hate you is counter-productive, thus there will be no deal between Russia-EU. Only obvious trade.

    They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time.

    Stalin once wrote an article “Dizzy with success”. The bombing of Beograd was the American “dizzy with success” moment. They thought that Russia is going to be cowed with that bombing. It was “look what we can do to your closest ally” scenario.

    Yeah, they really managed to frighten Russia, they scared them so much, that they brought Putin to power. Putin came to power directly as a result of the bombing of Serbia.

    Why Serbia had to be bombed? Because it’s the only Slavic nation that has never gone against Russia , and – you can call me a Nostradamus on this one – they never will. That’s why they had to be punished.

    Every time they try to intimidate Russia, they dig a deeper hole for themselves. Gruzia in 2008 and 2014 Ukraine didn’t bring them any closer to the success that they like to get dizzy over – capitulation of Russia. The reason why their bellowed capitalist project will collapse is the same one that caused the collapse of the USSR – inability to serve the needs of the people any longer.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    managed to frighten Russia, they scared them so much, that they brought Putin to power. Putin came to power directly as a result of the bombing of Serbia.
     
    True. The ill-advised bombing of Serbia was an extremely stupid strategic act that backfired. But because it was sanctified by the neo-liberal media at that time, it has been put in a memory hole.

    Being 'dizzy with success' means that elites stop thinking of consequences. What we have had since that fateful error in 1999 is a long and painful management of consequences for the Western liberal elites. And it is by no means over yet.
    , @VojkanM
    You're close but not quite on. What links Serbia and Russia is a special brand of Orthodoxy, as exemplified by Dostoevsky, Berdaev, Solzhenytsin on the Russian side, Nikolaj Velimirović, Justin Popović on the Serbian side. All others are seen as convertible and can be melted into the NWO. Russians and Serbs can't. It's not that Russians and Serbs are without flaws. They just happen to be recalcitrant to the luciferian order.
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  59. Wally says:
    @annamaria
    Hey, Quartermaster, why don't you tell us more about the amazing progress achieved by Ukraine after the Kagans-sponsored revolution of 2014? For instance, you could tell us (proudly?) about the rise of neo-Nazi power in Ukraine and about certain Kolomojsky, the Ukrainian/Israeli thug, and his financing of the Azov battalion.
    The EU countries put people in prison for questioning the tight official narrative/numbers of holocaust biz.
    The same AngloZionist "elites" are content with the desecration of Jewish cemeteries in Ukraine by the local neo-Nazis: http://www.stalkerzone.org/banderists-came-ukraine-march-center-odessa/
    "Antisemitic Hate Crimes Thrive in Ukraine:" https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/04/21/antisemitic-hate-crimes-thrive-in-ukraine/
    "Symbols of the 1st Galician SS Division are not considered to be Nazi symbols in Ukraine:" http://eu.eot.su/2017/05/20/symbols-of-the-1st-galician-ss-division-are-not-considered-to-be-nazi-symbols-in-ukraine/
    "The roots of fascism in Ukraine: From Nazi collaboration to Maidan:" http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

    Yawn. Who benefits?

    Staged ‘hate crimes’ are the norm. “Anti-semitism” is a racket profitable for Jews.

    In summary, there were the ‘Nazis’ with the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    http://www.codoh.com

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  60. @Beckow
    We are talking apples and oranges. EU wants cheap, reliable energy from Russia and to export to Russia as much as possible without interference from US. That is pure business. But the dominant political forces in EU are anti-Russia, some because they are fed by the security-military-academic spending, some because they 'studied' and were politically formed in US or UK. Some because that's just the way they are.

    There is a strong, EU domestic anti-Russian population based on hundreds of years of history, resentment over losses (Germany, Poland, Sweden, Finland), self-brainwashing about perceived abuse (Poland, Baltics, eastern Europeans in general), hatred and contempt towards anything 'eastern', and the traditional anglo anti-Russian policies. Recently new emotional hatreds have been added with endless demonising Russia about xenophobia, hooligans, gays, stray dogs, anything the creative propagandists can push. Most Europeans turn out on reflection to be quite gullible and stupid.

    There are a few minor exceptions and some Latin nations are more level headed. There is also a minority view in the German world, mostly based on their business realism that is neutral toward Russia, but not pro-Russian. There will be no political rapprochement between EU and Russia. There will be better business relations because water flows downhill and EU-Russia economic ties are such an obvious fit. The cultural hatred and political hostility will go on.

    After WWII it took most Europeans less than a generation to revert to the traditional anti-Russian attitudes. In some cases, nations that were literally saved from extermination were more resentful than grateful. In Poland it took less than a year, in Czech Republic 20 years, but the old visceral hatreds emerged again. My advise to Russia would be to mind its own business and not try to sacrifice for the others or to help them. It has always backfired because the cultural milieu in Europe is naturally resentful of Russia and the east in general. Business doesn't change that.

    In Poland it took less than a year, in Czech Republic 20 years, but the old visceral hatreds emerged again.

    Poland was not literally saved from extermination but went out of the frying pan into the fire. It took less than a year, indeed, and if you cared what happened in that year, you might write with a bit more respect for the victims of those Russian crimes.

    Perhaps raping and murdering fewer people might have done wonders for the Russian reputation in Eastern Europe, poor little innocents?

    You know why this whining about contempt and visceral hatred towards anything Russian is so horribly annoying?

    Because Central Europe actually needs Russian help against the rapacious West and this whining shows that you simply refuse to understand that there might be a true core to Eastern European resentment. And, by the way, Russia needs Central Europe as well.

    No solution in sight.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    I am a Central European and I agree that we need each other with Russia. I just think some among us - Poland being a prime example - have gone too far in the historical resentment game. That probably means that there is no solution in sight, you are right.

    Poles were saved by Russia from extermination at the hands of Nazi Germany. Between 1939-45, 3 million Poles were killed. The plan was to exterminate the rest over time, move some east, and turn into Germans a few selected among the Poles who fit certain racial criteria. Poles were slated to disappear if Germany won WWII. So were the Czechs. There is absolutely no reason to doubt that would happen, what exactly would prevent it?

    If Russia stopped on Polish eastern border in 1944, Poles would be slowly massacred. UK, US or Canada where not coming to save you. There was a zero chance that Western allies would invade Poland to fight Germans, way too many casualties. And they didn't care that much. Russia lost half a million soldiers liberating Poland. Half a million, not enough for you? Would you prefer that they were all dead?

    The ingratitude this enormous has consequences. Whatever it is that you say Russians did after the war, was not a genocide. Could you list those crimes with some data? Often, very loose definitions of 'crimes' are aggregated and used for political purposes. How many Poles did Russians kill in 1945-89? How many Polish women did they violate?

    (But I think this hopeless, hatred begets hatred, and we all lose as a result.)

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  61. Beckow says:
    @byrresheim

    In Poland it took less than a year, in Czech Republic 20 years, but the old visceral hatreds emerged again.
     
    Poland was not literally saved from extermination but went out of the frying pan into the fire. It took less than a year, indeed, and if you cared what happened in that year, you might write with a bit more respect for the victims of those Russian crimes.

    Perhaps raping and murdering fewer people might have done wonders for the Russian reputation in Eastern Europe, poor little innocents?

    You know why this whining about contempt and visceral hatred towards anything Russian is so horribly annoying?

    Because Central Europe actually needs Russian help against the rapacious West and this whining shows that you simply refuse to understand that there might be a true core to Eastern European resentment. And, by the way, Russia needs Central Europe as well.

    No solution in sight.

    I am a Central European and I agree that we need each other with Russia. I just think some among us – Poland being a prime example – have gone too far in the historical resentment game. That probably means that there is no solution in sight, you are right.

    Poles were saved by Russia from extermination at the hands of Nazi Germany. Between 1939-45, 3 million Poles were killed. The plan was to exterminate the rest over time, move some east, and turn into Germans a few selected among the Poles who fit certain racial criteria. Poles were slated to disappear if Germany won WWII. So were the Czechs. There is absolutely no reason to doubt that would happen, what exactly would prevent it?

    If Russia stopped on Polish eastern border in 1944, Poles would be slowly massacred. UK, US or Canada where not coming to save you. There was a zero chance that Western allies would invade Poland to fight Germans, way too many casualties. And they didn’t care that much. Russia lost half a million soldiers liberating Poland. Half a million, not enough for you? Would you prefer that they were all dead?

    The ingratitude this enormous has consequences. Whatever it is that you say Russians did after the war, was not a genocide. Could you list those crimes with some data? Often, very loose definitions of ‘crimes’ are aggregated and used for political purposes. How many Poles did Russians kill in 1945-89? How many Polish women did they violate?

    (But I think this hopeless, hatred begets hatred, and we all lose as a result.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    The ingratitude this enormous has consequences.
     
    Some things Poland can overlook and be quite magnanimous. Like for example 50,000 Slovak troops invading Poland with Hitler in 1939. I think that in Poland they do not feel too much resentment for Slovakia stacking Poland in 1939. I suspect they understand you were just a minor partner. Well, perhaps showing more eagerness and enthusiasm than it was necessary but they put in on the account of your fresh, young and immature nationalism. On the same account one may put Slovakia's eagerness to get rid of its Jews that it was willing to pay the III Reich the cost of their transport to Auschwitz. How many Reichsmarks per one Jew? The only country in Europe that did such a thing. Poland, however can't overlook a fact that WWII began with the attack on Poland by Germany in tandem with the USSR fulfilling in earnest its Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. The Soviet armies were not seen as liberators then and and they were not seen as liberators five years later.

    BTW, did you know Slovak cavalry was used to make anti-Polish German propaganda films showing Polish cavalry charge on Germans tanks that never happened? But this is a minor issue.

    You do not have ingratitude problem in Slovakia, right? Are you still grateful to Hitler that he let you participate in the victorious campaign against Poland or you rather not talk about it just like about the money you paid to the II Reich to have your Jews disappear?

    Poles, as I said, can overlook it. But they remember Soviet attack in September 1939. They remember the joint Red Army and Wehrmacht victory parades in Poland. They remember NKVD and Gestapo coordination of extermination of Polish elites in their occupation zones. They remember Soviet's 22 month long occupation of Eastern Poland and all atrocities committed there and deportation to Siberia. Did you have them in Slovakia as well? You as a Slovak have nothing to teach Poles about gratitude or the lack of it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vWGaAnl7e0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0-a3JgB_Q8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IFmBQS8FDc

    Gestapo–NKVD conferences
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo–NKVD_conferences
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  62. Beckow says:
    @Cyrano

    They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time.
     
    Stalin once wrote an article “Dizzy with success”. The bombing of Beograd was the American “dizzy with success” moment. They thought that Russia is going to be cowed with that bombing. It was “look what we can do to your closest ally” scenario.

    Yeah, they really managed to frighten Russia, they scared them so much, that they brought Putin to power. Putin came to power directly as a result of the bombing of Serbia.

    Why Serbia had to be bombed? Because it’s the only Slavic nation that has never gone against Russia , and – you can call me a Nostradamus on this one – they never will. That’s why they had to be punished.

    Every time they try to intimidate Russia, they dig a deeper hole for themselves. Gruzia in 2008 and 2014 Ukraine didn’t bring them any closer to the success that they like to get dizzy over – capitulation of Russia. The reason why their bellowed capitalist project will collapse is the same one that caused the collapse of the USSR – inability to serve the needs of the people any longer.

    managed to frighten Russia, they scared them so much, that they brought Putin to power. Putin came to power directly as a result of the bombing of Serbia.

    True. The ill-advised bombing of Serbia was an extremely stupid strategic act that backfired. But because it was sanctified by the neo-liberal media at that time, it has been put in a memory hole.

    Being ‘dizzy with success’ means that elites stop thinking of consequences. What we have had since that fateful error in 1999 is a long and painful management of consequences for the Western liberal elites. And it is by no means over yet.

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  63. m___ says:
    @Beckow
    Thanks. Current trends strengthen Euro-asia (and thus China and Russia), so West will have to do something, otherwise they get weaker over time.

    There has been a maximalist group in the West who believe that 'anything is possible', that even with nukes it is possible to defeat and dismember Russia. The key factor would be internal instability inside Russia. Maidan, Saaksavilli's mad dash in 2008, and the support for Caucas separatists were all done with that in mind. It has mostly failed with Russia becoming more united in the process.

    Failure has never discouraged true fanatics. It is a mistake to see them only in Washington and London, there are plenty of them in positions of power in Berlin, Paris, Warsaw, and even Stockholm. And in Washington the loudest ones are often bitter ethnics from eastern Europe. I honestly think it is about 50-50 whether this gets escalated beyond all reason and we face a catastrophe (so I admit that I don't know :). On the one hand there are the nukes. On the other, it is so hard to climb down for any ideological fanatic. They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time. And then Putin happened and the dream has been slowly dying. Imagine the painful void that they have to live with every day. So they hate. Any concession to people who hate you is counter-productive, thus there will be no deal between Russia-EU. Only obvious trade.

    The Ghengis Khan advisery board: kill all Russians, rape the women or enslave the Russians to farm their labour. The latter was advised then as to the best way of procedure. The shift was made within a single generation.

    Trade, industry, accelerated financial capitalism, as faulted as may be, is mostly a single step ahead of war(destruction of assets, is a primitive form of management, and probably better then the capitalist supposition of infinite resources, so the comparison is simplistic at best). That leaves policing, which can only be done by global consent with regard to Russia. Putin and his engine of operatives is a voice with vote inside the supranational group of deciders.

    So the public attitudes to Russia do not matter much, privately there is to be no killing, no raping, but infighting as to who gets what on executive level. Ultimately when our consultants and experts to the powerful are upgraded, the pageanism of chest thumping will take a second seat. War is obsolete, like it or not. Subjectively the menace of violence and conquista does less and less convince the nucleus of power thinking, plays little in elitist gain mongering. To give it new life, let’s take on exploring the universe seriously.

    Again the public side of it all, the “how do we look” grooming and concern, of the supranationals is also on the way out. There are in the make, and some exist in embrionic stage, exponentially better ways to herd the existing bulk populations.

    Back to general history of mankind. Put simplistically. War is hunter gathering, farming is trade and capitalism and at the lower end consumerism, an upgrade. Is it really? Not really, the variable of finite resources is left out of the picture, toxicity, the liability to asset overclock of population numbers, indirect consequences as our cherished immigration prove the limits of the scheme. Again better but not good enough.

    The elites are hardheadedly wrong in our opinion to insist in caduc, broken methods and garbage arguments between insiders. Migrations is a shortsighted tool that only leads to overheating in the medium term. Much like financial capitalism, augmenting volume of transaction, acceleration of transactions. Ultimately both butt into nothing more then a Ponzi scheme finale(sort of like the Worlcup of football inversed) and “investors”(the now Russia China and partners taking losses and reposition to bargain with the West) bailing out. Hence the degrading of the dollar as to it’s role as a reserve currency. What does not transit the US Central Bank cannot be cooked.

    What the theoretical economists on duty call “cycles” is better described as spongeing the blackboard and starting anew, now the US is no longer in that position of headmaster. In the backrow a sly Putin, for one, is toying with a scheme of his own. So does Xi. They all know there is no element of surprise any longer, all will have to consent and come up with something better or ever shorter term apply the same hammer. Sneak up and apply the exact same slugging will go in “cycles”. The game of the humanoid is at the phase, that should be concluded before mid-century, of “winner takes all”. Who is going to be the one standing? A fractionary group, a minor percentage of the global population. Us deplorables, our best of trade middle class hookers, for certain will be herded into something asceptic, controlled and positioned. Thanks our by then biologically distinct social group of elites for that, not God nor Providence. Or chaos. Let’s pray for chaos?

    Nobody ever was right in predicting the outcome of the future. Some were perfectly right in pointing to tendencies and their indicative measures of interaction. The rest is better done by computers then commenters and bloggers.

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  64. RL67 says:
    @mikkkkas
    The Saker has gone completely PCR, Paul Craig Robert, he even admit that. a more pessimistic ,dystopic view of things would be hard to find. Sad because he did some very good inspiring work initially but appears non-inspired and has apparently succumbed to his depression.

    I completely agree with you. I’ll remind the audience that shall we have followed PCR’s advice, nuclear armageddon should already have happened 3 or 4 years ago. I have noticed that since Trump’s gambit with Mike Flynn, the author’s geopolitical analysis have become more and more ideologic, as if Putin’s policy should be the enacting of Alexander Dugin’s philosophy as the prerequisite to success. I think Mr. Trump has shown to be a political leader of enormous stature. I value a political analysis when it’s able to forecast the short and medium term dynamics. In that sense I have to admit that at this point, Thierry Meyssan is one of the few who got it right time and again.

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  65. utu says:
    @Beckow
    I am a Central European and I agree that we need each other with Russia. I just think some among us - Poland being a prime example - have gone too far in the historical resentment game. That probably means that there is no solution in sight, you are right.

    Poles were saved by Russia from extermination at the hands of Nazi Germany. Between 1939-45, 3 million Poles were killed. The plan was to exterminate the rest over time, move some east, and turn into Germans a few selected among the Poles who fit certain racial criteria. Poles were slated to disappear if Germany won WWII. So were the Czechs. There is absolutely no reason to doubt that would happen, what exactly would prevent it?

    If Russia stopped on Polish eastern border in 1944, Poles would be slowly massacred. UK, US or Canada where not coming to save you. There was a zero chance that Western allies would invade Poland to fight Germans, way too many casualties. And they didn't care that much. Russia lost half a million soldiers liberating Poland. Half a million, not enough for you? Would you prefer that they were all dead?

    The ingratitude this enormous has consequences. Whatever it is that you say Russians did after the war, was not a genocide. Could you list those crimes with some data? Often, very loose definitions of 'crimes' are aggregated and used for political purposes. How many Poles did Russians kill in 1945-89? How many Polish women did they violate?

    (But I think this hopeless, hatred begets hatred, and we all lose as a result.)

    The ingratitude this enormous has consequences.

    Some things Poland can overlook and be quite magnanimous. Like for example 50,000 Slovak troops invading Poland with Hitler in 1939. I think that in Poland they do not feel too much resentment for Slovakia stacking Poland in 1939. I suspect they understand you were just a minor partner. Well, perhaps showing more eagerness and enthusiasm than it was necessary but they put in on the account of your fresh, young and immature nationalism. On the same account one may put Slovakia’s eagerness to get rid of its Jews that it was willing to pay the III Reich the cost of their transport to Auschwitz. How many Reichsmarks per one Jew? The only country in Europe that did such a thing. Poland, however can’t overlook a fact that WWII began with the attack on Poland by Germany in tandem with the USSR fulfilling in earnest its Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. The Soviet armies were not seen as liberators then and and they were not seen as liberators five years later.

    BTW, did you know Slovak cavalry was used to make anti-Polish German propaganda films showing Polish cavalry charge on Germans tanks that never happened? But this is a minor issue.

    You do not have ingratitude problem in Slovakia, right? Are you still grateful to Hitler that he let you participate in the victorious campaign against Poland or you rather not talk about it just like about the money you paid to the II Reich to have your Jews disappear?

    Poles, as I said, can overlook it. But they remember Soviet attack in September 1939. They remember the joint Red Army and Wehrmacht victory parades in Poland. They remember NKVD and Gestapo coordination of extermination of Polish elites in their occupation zones. They remember Soviet’s 22 month long occupation of Eastern Poland and all atrocities committed there and deportation to Siberia. Did you have them in Slovakia as well? You as a Slovak have nothing to teach Poles about gratitude or the lack of it.

    Gestapo–NKVD conferences

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo–NKVD_conferences

    Read More
    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @m___
    Thanks for the supporting material, as you understand, the quest for truth is a collective labour.
    , @Beckow
    You are distracting. Why not address the fact that Russians liberated Poland and saved the Poles from planned - and already on-going - extermination by Nazi Germany? There is something sad about Polish inability to look at 3 million Poles killed by Germans and at half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland. Very sad, as if being killed by Germans was preferable to living under the beastly 'asiatic' Russians.

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as 'East Poland', it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn't a part of Poland. So not a single kilometer of actual Poland was occupied by Soviet Union - they simply moved in to take back the areas of Belarus and Ukraine taken by Poland after WWI after Poland was defeated by Germany (and as you suggest, Slovakia). We all agree that it was a stupid and treacherous act - Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - it has been renounced and regretted by Russians since 1941. But it was Stalin and his bolshie cohort, and not even among top three worst things they did. And it did follow UK-France treaty with Hitler in Munich, that effectively Poland joined.

    Slovakia in WWII behaved quite badly and it is something we discuss all the time. Was it lesser evil? Was it necessary? Were there better alternatives? Suffice to say, almost nobody celebrates it. But you are leaving out the context: in the fall of 1938 Poland attacked Slovakia and took two northern districts, Spis and Orava. Poland also took Tesin from the Czechs and joined Hitler in his attack on Czechoslovakia. A year later when Germany attacked Poland, Slovaks re-occupied the two districts. In that respect, you are right, they joined the Germans. It was quite minimal.

    If Slovak cavalry did more than feed its horses, and chase some village girls, I would be very surprised. I ride horses and that historical vignette is quite amusing, I have never heard about it before. We do like to chase cars from distance, so maybe it is true.

    Back to resentment: how many Poles did Russians killed between 1945-1989? And how many Poles are you willing to sacrifice next time Poland (as always before) joins the Western attack on the east? And aren't your endless border squabbles all with Ukraine and Belarus? Finally, when will the Poles grow up and stop acting as emotional tool used by the West?

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  66. m___ says:
    @utu

    The ingratitude this enormous has consequences.
     
    Some things Poland can overlook and be quite magnanimous. Like for example 50,000 Slovak troops invading Poland with Hitler in 1939. I think that in Poland they do not feel too much resentment for Slovakia stacking Poland in 1939. I suspect they understand you were just a minor partner. Well, perhaps showing more eagerness and enthusiasm than it was necessary but they put in on the account of your fresh, young and immature nationalism. On the same account one may put Slovakia's eagerness to get rid of its Jews that it was willing to pay the III Reich the cost of their transport to Auschwitz. How many Reichsmarks per one Jew? The only country in Europe that did such a thing. Poland, however can't overlook a fact that WWII began with the attack on Poland by Germany in tandem with the USSR fulfilling in earnest its Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. The Soviet armies were not seen as liberators then and and they were not seen as liberators five years later.

    BTW, did you know Slovak cavalry was used to make anti-Polish German propaganda films showing Polish cavalry charge on Germans tanks that never happened? But this is a minor issue.

    You do not have ingratitude problem in Slovakia, right? Are you still grateful to Hitler that he let you participate in the victorious campaign against Poland or you rather not talk about it just like about the money you paid to the II Reich to have your Jews disappear?

    Poles, as I said, can overlook it. But they remember Soviet attack in September 1939. They remember the joint Red Army and Wehrmacht victory parades in Poland. They remember NKVD and Gestapo coordination of extermination of Polish elites in their occupation zones. They remember Soviet's 22 month long occupation of Eastern Poland and all atrocities committed there and deportation to Siberia. Did you have them in Slovakia as well? You as a Slovak have nothing to teach Poles about gratitude or the lack of it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vWGaAnl7e0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0-a3JgB_Q8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IFmBQS8FDc

    Gestapo–NKVD conferences
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo–NKVD_conferences

    Thanks for the supporting material, as you understand, the quest for truth is a collective labour.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    I wish there was some quest for the truth on these pages. Too often I do not see it. Way too often people are just doing laundry of their national resentments and prejudices. Some commenters here are not thoughtful enough and just careless but there are some who are brutal hate mongers spreading disinformation.
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  67. Kiza says:
    @Beckow
    We are talking apples and oranges. EU wants cheap, reliable energy from Russia and to export to Russia as much as possible without interference from US. That is pure business. But the dominant political forces in EU are anti-Russia, some because they are fed by the security-military-academic spending, some because they 'studied' and were politically formed in US or UK. Some because that's just the way they are.

    There is a strong, EU domestic anti-Russian population based on hundreds of years of history, resentment over losses (Germany, Poland, Sweden, Finland), self-brainwashing about perceived abuse (Poland, Baltics, eastern Europeans in general), hatred and contempt towards anything 'eastern', and the traditional anglo anti-Russian policies. Recently new emotional hatreds have been added with endless demonising Russia about xenophobia, hooligans, gays, stray dogs, anything the creative propagandists can push. Most Europeans turn out on reflection to be quite gullible and stupid.

    There are a few minor exceptions and some Latin nations are more level headed. There is also a minority view in the German world, mostly based on their business realism that is neutral toward Russia, but not pro-Russian. There will be no political rapprochement between EU and Russia. There will be better business relations because water flows downhill and EU-Russia economic ties are such an obvious fit. The cultural hatred and political hostility will go on.

    After WWII it took most Europeans less than a generation to revert to the traditional anti-Russian attitudes. In some cases, nations that were literally saved from extermination were more resentful than grateful. In Poland it took less than a year, in Czech Republic 20 years, but the old visceral hatreds emerged again. My advise to Russia would be to mind its own business and not try to sacrifice for the others or to help them. It has always backfired because the cultural milieu in Europe is naturally resentful of Russia and the east in general. Business doesn't change that.

    Regarding the propaganda canard of the supposed culling of stray dogs in Russia, my first thought was – Kim Jong-un proscribing 15 hairstyles to women in North Korea, the execution of his own uncle by throwing him to hungry dogs and other similar swill for the dumb Western masses and their equally dumb Eastern European associates. It is so horribly demeaning to fall for such shit, but many “intellectuals” do. As I usually say, being exceptionally dumb is the only true exceptionalism of the West.

    The most interesting thing is that Russia never engages in such dumb smear. Maybe the Russian leadership and even oligarchs/media owners respects the Russian people enough not to feed them such swill.

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  68. utu says:
    @m___
    Thanks for the supporting material, as you understand, the quest for truth is a collective labour.

    I wish there was some quest for the truth on these pages. Too often I do not see it. Way too often people are just doing laundry of their national resentments and prejudices. Some commenters here are not thoughtful enough and just careless but there are some who are brutal hate mongers spreading disinformation.

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  69. Beckow says:
    @utu

    The ingratitude this enormous has consequences.
     
    Some things Poland can overlook and be quite magnanimous. Like for example 50,000 Slovak troops invading Poland with Hitler in 1939. I think that in Poland they do not feel too much resentment for Slovakia stacking Poland in 1939. I suspect they understand you were just a minor partner. Well, perhaps showing more eagerness and enthusiasm than it was necessary but they put in on the account of your fresh, young and immature nationalism. On the same account one may put Slovakia's eagerness to get rid of its Jews that it was willing to pay the III Reich the cost of their transport to Auschwitz. How many Reichsmarks per one Jew? The only country in Europe that did such a thing. Poland, however can't overlook a fact that WWII began with the attack on Poland by Germany in tandem with the USSR fulfilling in earnest its Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. The Soviet armies were not seen as liberators then and and they were not seen as liberators five years later.

    BTW, did you know Slovak cavalry was used to make anti-Polish German propaganda films showing Polish cavalry charge on Germans tanks that never happened? But this is a minor issue.

    You do not have ingratitude problem in Slovakia, right? Are you still grateful to Hitler that he let you participate in the victorious campaign against Poland or you rather not talk about it just like about the money you paid to the II Reich to have your Jews disappear?

    Poles, as I said, can overlook it. But they remember Soviet attack in September 1939. They remember the joint Red Army and Wehrmacht victory parades in Poland. They remember NKVD and Gestapo coordination of extermination of Polish elites in their occupation zones. They remember Soviet's 22 month long occupation of Eastern Poland and all atrocities committed there and deportation to Siberia. Did you have them in Slovakia as well? You as a Slovak have nothing to teach Poles about gratitude or the lack of it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vWGaAnl7e0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0-a3JgB_Q8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IFmBQS8FDc

    Gestapo–NKVD conferences
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo–NKVD_conferences

    You are distracting. Why not address the fact that Russians liberated Poland and saved the Poles from planned – and already on-going – extermination by Nazi Germany? There is something sad about Polish inability to look at 3 million Poles killed by Germans and at half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland. Very sad, as if being killed by Germans was preferable to living under the beastly ‘asiatic’ Russians.

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as ‘East Poland’, it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn’t a part of Poland. So not a single kilometer of actual Poland was occupied by Soviet Union – they simply moved in to take back the areas of Belarus and Ukraine taken by Poland after WWI after Poland was defeated by Germany (and as you suggest, Slovakia). We all agree that it was a stupid and treacherous act – Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact – it has been renounced and regretted by Russians since 1941. But it was Stalin and his bolshie cohort, and not even among top three worst things they did. And it did follow UK-France treaty with Hitler in Munich, that effectively Poland joined.

    Slovakia in WWII behaved quite badly and it is something we discuss all the time. Was it lesser evil? Was it necessary? Were there better alternatives? Suffice to say, almost nobody celebrates it. But you are leaving out the context: in the fall of 1938 Poland attacked Slovakia and took two northern districts, Spis and Orava. Poland also took Tesin from the Czechs and joined Hitler in his attack on Czechoslovakia. A year later when Germany attacked Poland, Slovaks re-occupied the two districts. In that respect, you are right, they joined the Germans. It was quite minimal.

    If Slovak cavalry did more than feed its horses, and chase some village girls, I would be very surprised. I ride horses and that historical vignette is quite amusing, I have never heard about it before. We do like to chase cars from distance, so maybe it is true.

    Back to resentment: how many Poles did Russians killed between 1945-1989? And how many Poles are you willing to sacrifice next time Poland (as always before) joins the Western attack on the east? And aren’t your endless border squabbles all with Ukraine and Belarus? Finally, when will the Poles grow up and stop acting as emotional tool used by the West?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Well said.

    Poland lost about 66,000 KIA and about 134,000 WIA when Nazi Germany invaded in 1939.
    Poland lost about 3,000 KIA and about 10,000 WIA when the Red Army invaded in 1939.

    The 1939-1940 Intelligenzaktion killed/murdered about 100,000 Polish intelligentsia, teachers, priests, physicians, etc. Mostly civilians.
    The NKVD murdered about 20,000 Poles at Katyn (and other places) in 1940. The killed were mostly Polish military personnel, officers, police, etc.

    But, naturally, in Polish eyes what NKVD did was far worse than Intelligenzaktion.

    {And how many Poles are you willing to sacrifice next time Poland (as always before) joins the Western attack on the east?}

    Very good question.
    My guess is many millions, because next time West/NATO attacks/invades Russia, it will go nuclear very quickly, and Poland will be one of the primary targets of a massive Russian nuke strike given they are hosting NATO missile "defense" units ...in reality 'first strike' missiles as both NATO and Moscow know.
    Kremlin has publicly stated more than once there will be no repeat of massive land wars on the territory of RF ala WW2 (...or words to that effect).
    , @utu

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as ‘East Poland’, it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn’t a part of Poland.
     
    And you are accusing me of being distracting? Occupied Eastern Poland had 13.7 million population out of which 38% was Polish, 37% Ukrainian, 14.5% Belorussians, 8.4% Jewish, 0.9% Russian, 0.8% German and 336 thousand of refugees from Poland under German occupation. While many Ukrainians and few Belorussians were hostile to Poland before the WWII they did look forward to being embraced by the USSR and its bogus artificially created republics which was clearly demonstrated by how happily Ukrainians and Belorussians were welcoming Wehrmacht and SS in June 1941. Every citizen of the pre WWII Poland whether Polish, Ukrainian or Belorussian and obviously Jewish would have given anything to return to the antebellum state if such a miracle would have been possible. It wasn't because Polish state was destroyed in September 1939 by Germany, USSR and Slovakia which started the WWII.

    In the period 1939-1941 prior to German invasion of the USSR 500,000 were arrested and 65,000 were murdered in the Eastern Poland under the Soviet occupation. There were four waves of deportation that included 500,000 people. It is estimated that 35% of them died in Siberia, Kazakhstan and the places. . The atrocities under the Soviet occupation at that time were not significantly lower than under the German occupation. As of June 22, 1941 nobody in Poland could tell who was worse or better: Germans or Soviets? Two equally evil forces!

    While the official number of Polish citizens killed during the WWII is at 6 million which includes 3 million of Jews, I believe that the number is exaggerated. Furthermore a significant part of this losses were at the hand of Soviets. The plans of extermination that Soviet propagandists like to blow up out of proportion are exaggerated. During WWII while various brutal reprisals were going on against Polish civilians nobody was under any inkling that some 'extermination' at the hands of Germans was imminent. The post WWII stories about the Generalplan Ost are all blown out of proportions and are mostly bogus. Though they are loved by Soviet propagandist so the can blow their trumpet as 'liberators' so hard that the fact that they started the WWWII is not heard and forgotten.

    You as Slovak and Sovok can't understand Poland's predicament. Slovakia joined Hitler and was quite happy with this arrangement and then happily embraced Soviet liberators or at least pretended to. Poland fought both Germans and Soviets while you were giving blow jobs to both of them. Poland was the only country that remained loyal to its allies and looked at the WWII from the perspective of it as a victim of aggression by Germany, USSR and Slovakia which starts the WWII. Poland's experience under both German and Soviet occupations made it impossible too see Soviet troops in 1944 as anything but the necessary evil at best. During and right after the so-called 'liberation' people in Poland were being rounded up by Red Army and NKVD, murdered and deported deep into Soviet Union.
    , @AP

    half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland
     
    1. Died occupying Poland. Poland wasn't liberated, it was occupied by the Soviets. That the Soviets weren't as horrible as the Nazis doesn't make their presence less of an occupation.

    2. They obviously didn't do so in order to "liberate" Poland but on the drive into Germany; Poland was simply in the way and they had to get through it.

    Prior to this conversation I had not known the extent of Slovakia's behavior vis a vis Germany and Sovok. Thanks to utu for informing us.
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  70. Avery says:
    @Beckow
    You are distracting. Why not address the fact that Russians liberated Poland and saved the Poles from planned - and already on-going - extermination by Nazi Germany? There is something sad about Polish inability to look at 3 million Poles killed by Germans and at half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland. Very sad, as if being killed by Germans was preferable to living under the beastly 'asiatic' Russians.

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as 'East Poland', it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn't a part of Poland. So not a single kilometer of actual Poland was occupied by Soviet Union - they simply moved in to take back the areas of Belarus and Ukraine taken by Poland after WWI after Poland was defeated by Germany (and as you suggest, Slovakia). We all agree that it was a stupid and treacherous act - Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - it has been renounced and regretted by Russians since 1941. But it was Stalin and his bolshie cohort, and not even among top three worst things they did. And it did follow UK-France treaty with Hitler in Munich, that effectively Poland joined.

    Slovakia in WWII behaved quite badly and it is something we discuss all the time. Was it lesser evil? Was it necessary? Were there better alternatives? Suffice to say, almost nobody celebrates it. But you are leaving out the context: in the fall of 1938 Poland attacked Slovakia and took two northern districts, Spis and Orava. Poland also took Tesin from the Czechs and joined Hitler in his attack on Czechoslovakia. A year later when Germany attacked Poland, Slovaks re-occupied the two districts. In that respect, you are right, they joined the Germans. It was quite minimal.

    If Slovak cavalry did more than feed its horses, and chase some village girls, I would be very surprised. I ride horses and that historical vignette is quite amusing, I have never heard about it before. We do like to chase cars from distance, so maybe it is true.

    Back to resentment: how many Poles did Russians killed between 1945-1989? And how many Poles are you willing to sacrifice next time Poland (as always before) joins the Western attack on the east? And aren't your endless border squabbles all with Ukraine and Belarus? Finally, when will the Poles grow up and stop acting as emotional tool used by the West?

    Well said.

    Poland lost about 66,000 KIA and about 134,000 WIA when Nazi Germany invaded in 1939.
    Poland lost about 3,000 KIA and about 10,000 WIA when the Red Army invaded in 1939.

    The 1939-1940 Intelligenzaktion killed/murdered about 100,000 Polish intelligentsia, teachers, priests, physicians, etc. Mostly civilians.
    The NKVD murdered about 20,000 Poles at Katyn (and other places) in 1940. The killed were mostly Polish military personnel, officers, police, etc.

    But, naturally, in Polish eyes what NKVD did was far worse than Intelligenzaktion.

    {And how many Poles are you willing to sacrifice next time Poland (as always before) joins the Western attack on the east?}

    Very good question.
    My guess is many millions, because next time West/NATO attacks/invades Russia, it will go nuclear very quickly, and Poland will be one of the primary targets of a massive Russian nuke strike given they are hosting NATO missile “defense” units …in reality ‘first strike’ missiles as both NATO and Moscow know.
    Kremlin has publicly stated more than once there will be no repeat of massive land wars on the territory of RF ala WW2 (…or words to that effect).

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  71. @pyrrhus
    Looney tunes have nothing on you...The events in the Ukraine are well known to all, but of course as a paid troll, you will continue to post your warmongering lies as long as the checks clear.

    You are looney tunes. The events in Ukraine are, indeed, well known, as are the lies Saker has been trying to sell. The only warmongers in Ukraine is Putin and his minions. Ukraine did not attack Russia, but the other way around.

    Too bad you can’t think for yourself any more than Saker can.

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  72. @jilles dykstra
    The CIA seems to have spent five billion $ in Ukraine.
    Who wants to incorporate Ukraine in the west therefore is not clear, the USA, NATO or EU, or all of them ?
    In any case, many in Europe see Putin just as an honest gas supplier.
    Trump's gas is much more expensive.

    Sadly, for you, Saker, and others who seem to willfully mentally disabled, the 5 billion was not spent by the CIA and was spent over a period of years. Putin is anything but an honest gas supplier, as he has proven over and over and over and….

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  73. @Ger
    A more reasonable resolution would be for the American/Nazi Consortium to return Ukraine back to the people to elect a legitimate government to restore sovereignty. It is difficult to negotiate with 'bastards' controlled by the Western Warmongers. As for Crimea, witness one of the best examples of 'democracy' when the people took matters into their hands and voted to leave the American/Nazi controlled Ukraine. Given the option to live in a failed state or enjoy the good life on the beaches of Crimea .... which would you choose?

    A legit government was elected after Yanukovich decided to run to his buddy and protector, Putin. Nazi’s do not control Ukraine any more than the control Bermuda. Russia is far closer to failed state status than Ukraine, although Putin is trying to push things in that direction. Like most thugs, he can’t abide anyone being honestly more prosperous than he.

    Those beaches in Crimea are increasingly a mess under Putin’s occupiers. Crimea chose Ukraine almost 20 years ago. In an honest referendum, which was not what took place in 2014, unless you would consider Poland under Nazi Occupation voting to become a permanent part of the fatherland, and honest referendum.

    The only Nazis in all this are in Moscow.

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  74. @annamaria
    Hey, Quartermaster, why don't you tell us more about the amazing progress achieved by Ukraine after the Kagans-sponsored revolution of 2014? For instance, you could tell us (proudly?) about the rise of neo-Nazi power in Ukraine and about certain Kolomojsky, the Ukrainian/Israeli thug, and his financing of the Azov battalion.
    The EU countries put people in prison for questioning the tight official narrative/numbers of holocaust biz.
    The same AngloZionist "elites" are content with the desecration of Jewish cemeteries in Ukraine by the local neo-Nazis: http://www.stalkerzone.org/banderists-came-ukraine-march-center-odessa/
    "Antisemitic Hate Crimes Thrive in Ukraine:" https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/04/21/antisemitic-hate-crimes-thrive-in-ukraine/
    "Symbols of the 1st Galician SS Division are not considered to be Nazi symbols in Ukraine:" http://eu.eot.su/2017/05/20/symbols-of-the-1st-galician-ss-division-are-not-considered-to-be-nazi-symbols-in-ukraine/
    "The roots of fascism in Ukraine: From Nazi collaboration to Maidan:" http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

    So, you want me to lie like Saker? Sorry, ain’t happening. Put your lies where the sun don’t shine.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    It is not our problem that the facts have the anti-Quartermaster bias: "America’s Collusion With Neo-Nazis. Neo-fascists play an important official or tolerated role in US-backed Ukraine." By Stephen F. Cohen: https://www.thenation.com/article/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/
    "... few realities are more important than the role played by neo-fascist forces in U.S.-backed, Kiev-governed Ukraine since 2014. Not even many Americans who follow international news know the following, for example:
    — That the snipers who killed scores of protesters and policemen on Kiev’s Maidan Square in February 2014, thereby triggering a “democratic revolution” that overthrew the elected president, Viktor Yanukovych, and brought to power a virulent anti-Russian, pro-American regime — it was neither democratic nor a revolution, but a violent coup unfolding in the streets with high-level support — were sent ... almost certainly by the neo-fascist organization Right Sector and its co-conspirators.
    — That the pogrom-like burning to death of ethnic Russians and others in Odessa shortly later in 2014 reawakened memories of Nazi extermination squads in Ukraine during World War II has been all but deleted from the American mainstream narrative even though it remains a painful and revelatory experience for many Ukrainians.
    — That the Azov Battalion of some 3,000 well-armed fighters, which has played a major combat role in the Ukrainian civil war and now is an official component of Kiev’s armed forces, is avowedly “partially” pro-Nazi, as evidenced by its regalia, slogans, and programmatic statements, and well-documented as such by several international monitoring organizations. ...
    — That stormtroop-like assaults on gays, Jews, elderly ethnic Russians, and other “impure” citizens are widespread throughout Kiev-ruled Ukraine, along with torchlight marches reminiscent of those that eventually inflamed Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s. And that the police and official legal authorities do virtually nothing to prevent these neo-fascist acts or to prosecute them. On the contrary, Kiev has officially encouraged them by systematically rehabilitating and even memorializing Ukrainian collaborators with Nazi German extermination pogroms and their leaders during World War II, renaming streets in their honor, building monuments to them, rewriting history to glorify them, and more."
    The Nation is an American journal with the main office in New York, New York, 10018
    The Nation's credo: "We believe in intellectual freedom. We value facts and transparency. We argue that dissent is patriotic and we hold the powerful to account, no matter their political persuasion. ... Above all, we aspire to galvanize a more informed public—one equipped with a more profound understanding of events, ideas, and history."
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  75. @slorter
    You give a reply like that and call him clueless and expect us to consider what you have said in reply! Write something intelligent to consider!!

    So, you swallow the ravings of a misinformed man and you expect me to present something “intelligent” in response. I did, and you have problems with it. No surprise to see in someone who swallows Saker’s junk whole with no critical thinking applied.

    Anyone that has made the effort to keep with what is actually happening over there will swallow Saker’s trash.

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  76. @AI
    If we should use the term "stole", then make it right and say "stole it back", because Crimea was initially stolen from Russia.

    No one stole anything from Russia. The General Secretary had the authority to turn Crimea over to Ukraine, and Crimea voted, along with the rest of Ukraine, for independence. Get the invaders out of Crimea now, and the margin to stay away from Russia will far, far higher than it was in ’91. They’ve gotten a belly full of Putin’s “benefits” and realize what they left behind in ’91.

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  77. @El Dato
    "Muh stolen Crimea".

    It's worse than Syria or Iraq, worse than Mandchuria! Even worser than Hawaii!!

    There will be warbling songs about this in 100 years time with mournful balalaika tunes.

    “Muh stolen Crimea” is Putin’s line. Russia can’t afford Crimea and it will not remain stolen for too much longer.

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  78. eyeslevel says: • Website

    Freedom and diversity are incompatible. There never has been a multiracial democracy and there never will be. The more multiracial a country gets, the more authoritarian it needs to be. The less you control the border, the more you need to control the people. If Russia is concerned about authoritarianism developing in Europe, it’s leaders need to speak out more forcefully against the ongoing non-white invasion of Europe. For security reasons, Russia also needs to be concerned about a huge nuclear armed brown Muslim conglomeration developing on its western border.

    Additionally, Russia needs to fulfill its obligations as a civilized power and enforce the international law against genocide (UN Resolution 260). Under international law, genocide is any attempt to eliminate a group by any means. Mass non-white immigration combined with forced assimilation and 24/7/365 miscegenation propaganda is clearly an attempt to force-blend whites out of existence in Europe. Countries that resist invasion are being sued by the European Union to try to force them to open their borders and let the third world pour in. The intent for white genocide in Europe was clearly stated by the man considered to be the Godfather of the European Union, Richard Kalergi, when he wrote, in 1925, “The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today’s races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals.” In a recent interview, Emmanuel Macron echoed Kalergi by stating that there would be a huge wave of migrants from Africa and that “Europe has its destiny bound with Africa”. Putin should throw out hints that he may constitute genocide tribunals for European leaders clearly guilty of white genocide.

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    This.
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  79. utu says:
    @Beckow
    You are distracting. Why not address the fact that Russians liberated Poland and saved the Poles from planned - and already on-going - extermination by Nazi Germany? There is something sad about Polish inability to look at 3 million Poles killed by Germans and at half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland. Very sad, as if being killed by Germans was preferable to living under the beastly 'asiatic' Russians.

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as 'East Poland', it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn't a part of Poland. So not a single kilometer of actual Poland was occupied by Soviet Union - they simply moved in to take back the areas of Belarus and Ukraine taken by Poland after WWI after Poland was defeated by Germany (and as you suggest, Slovakia). We all agree that it was a stupid and treacherous act - Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - it has been renounced and regretted by Russians since 1941. But it was Stalin and his bolshie cohort, and not even among top three worst things they did. And it did follow UK-France treaty with Hitler in Munich, that effectively Poland joined.

    Slovakia in WWII behaved quite badly and it is something we discuss all the time. Was it lesser evil? Was it necessary? Were there better alternatives? Suffice to say, almost nobody celebrates it. But you are leaving out the context: in the fall of 1938 Poland attacked Slovakia and took two northern districts, Spis and Orava. Poland also took Tesin from the Czechs and joined Hitler in his attack on Czechoslovakia. A year later when Germany attacked Poland, Slovaks re-occupied the two districts. In that respect, you are right, they joined the Germans. It was quite minimal.

    If Slovak cavalry did more than feed its horses, and chase some village girls, I would be very surprised. I ride horses and that historical vignette is quite amusing, I have never heard about it before. We do like to chase cars from distance, so maybe it is true.

    Back to resentment: how many Poles did Russians killed between 1945-1989? And how many Poles are you willing to sacrifice next time Poland (as always before) joins the Western attack on the east? And aren't your endless border squabbles all with Ukraine and Belarus? Finally, when will the Poles grow up and stop acting as emotional tool used by the West?

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as ‘East Poland’, it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn’t a part of Poland.

    And you are accusing me of being distracting? Occupied Eastern Poland had 13.7 million population out of which 38% was Polish, 37% Ukrainian, 14.5% Belorussians, 8.4% Jewish, 0.9% Russian, 0.8% German and 336 thousand of refugees from Poland under German occupation. While many Ukrainians and few Belorussians were hostile to Poland before the WWII they did look forward to being embraced by the USSR and its bogus artificially created republics which was clearly demonstrated by how happily Ukrainians and Belorussians were welcoming Wehrmacht and SS in June 1941. Every citizen of the pre WWII Poland whether Polish, Ukrainian or Belorussian and obviously Jewish would have given anything to return to the antebellum state if such a miracle would have been possible. It wasn’t because Polish state was destroyed in September 1939 by Germany, USSR and Slovakia which started the WWII.

    In the period 1939-1941 prior to German invasion of the USSR 500,000 were arrested and 65,000 were murdered in the Eastern Poland under the Soviet occupation. There were four waves of deportation that included 500,000 people. It is estimated that 35% of them died in Siberia, Kazakhstan and the places. . The atrocities under the Soviet occupation at that time were not significantly lower than under the German occupation. As of June 22, 1941 nobody in Poland could tell who was worse or better: Germans or Soviets? Two equally evil forces!

    While the official number of Polish citizens killed during the WWII is at 6 million which includes 3 million of Jews, I believe that the number is exaggerated. Furthermore a significant part of this losses were at the hand of Soviets. The plans of extermination that Soviet propagandists like to blow up out of proportion are exaggerated. During WWII while various brutal reprisals were going on against Polish civilians nobody was under any inkling that some ‘extermination’ at the hands of Germans was imminent. The post WWII stories about the Generalplan Ost are all blown out of proportions and are mostly bogus. Though they are loved by Soviet propagandist so the can blow their trumpet as ‘liberators’ so hard that the fact that they started the WWWII is not heard and forgotten.

    You as Slovak and Sovok can’t understand Poland’s predicament. Slovakia joined Hitler and was quite happy with this arrangement and then happily embraced Soviet liberators or at least pretended to. Poland fought both Germans and Soviets while you were giving blow jobs to both of them. Poland was the only country that remained loyal to its allies and looked at the WWII from the perspective of it as a victim of aggression by Germany, USSR and Slovakia which starts the WWII. Poland’s experience under both German and Soviet occupations made it impossible too see Soviet troops in 1944 as anything but the necessary evil at best. During and right after the so-called ‘liberation’ people in Poland were being rounded up by Red Army and NKVD, murdered and deported deep into Soviet Union.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    You refuse to address historical facts that don't suit your story:
    - Poland joined Hitler at Munich in dismembering Czechoslovakia, taking two districts from Slovakia (Orava and Spis, 100% Slovak ethnically)
    - Slovakia's involvement in Hitler's attack on Poland a year later was limited to retaking those two districts
    - Your statistics for 1939 are disputed, but even those statistics show that East Poland, or more like Western Ukraine and Belarus had Ukrainian-Belorussian majority. And they were incorporated into Poland only after WWI. What goes around comes around.

    Russia signed the infamous pact in August 1939, 1 year after UK, France, Italy and even Poland allied with Nazi Germany in dismembering Czechoslovakia. You can repeat your self-brainwashing all day long, the fact is that Poland (and UK, France) allied themselves with Germany before Stalin's Russia did it. They were all wrong, in retrospect.

    It is awkward to argue with someone who thinks that 'not that many Poles were killed by Germans in WWII, that it is exaggerated'. Ok, so what is the number if not 3 million? 2 million? Does that make it better?

    The plans to eliminate the Poles were real (and also the Czechs). You argue that they were not 'imminent', I am not sure what that means. Are you ok with only 10% killed right away and the rest after Germans would win the war? How do you define 'imminent'?

    I can see why next time nobody will give a damn at all, Polish ethno-masochism is beyond any rationality. Now Poland is posturing as a great place to have a nuclear war, literally painting a huge sign 'Shoot here' on its territory. As I said, quite sad.
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  80. @AnonFromTN
    Many European countries will keep buying Russian oil and gas, unless they are prepared for the death of their industry. Many European companies will continue to participate in various Russia-lead projects for profit. Does Russia need anything else from Europe? Not as far as I can see. Will EU “leaders” remain American poodles? Likely, but who cares? Europe is dying an inglorious largely self-inflicted death, whereas Russia is rising along with China, South Korea, and several other countries. Natural selection at work.

    Does Russia need anything else from Europe? Not as far as I can see. Will EU “leaders” remain American poodles? Likely, but who cares?

    Excellent point.

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  81. AP says:
    @Beckow
    You are distracting. Why not address the fact that Russians liberated Poland and saved the Poles from planned - and already on-going - extermination by Nazi Germany? There is something sad about Polish inability to look at 3 million Poles killed by Germans and at half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland. Very sad, as if being killed by Germans was preferable to living under the beastly 'asiatic' Russians.

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as 'East Poland', it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn't a part of Poland. So not a single kilometer of actual Poland was occupied by Soviet Union - they simply moved in to take back the areas of Belarus and Ukraine taken by Poland after WWI after Poland was defeated by Germany (and as you suggest, Slovakia). We all agree that it was a stupid and treacherous act - Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - it has been renounced and regretted by Russians since 1941. But it was Stalin and his bolshie cohort, and not even among top three worst things they did. And it did follow UK-France treaty with Hitler in Munich, that effectively Poland joined.

    Slovakia in WWII behaved quite badly and it is something we discuss all the time. Was it lesser evil? Was it necessary? Were there better alternatives? Suffice to say, almost nobody celebrates it. But you are leaving out the context: in the fall of 1938 Poland attacked Slovakia and took two northern districts, Spis and Orava. Poland also took Tesin from the Czechs and joined Hitler in his attack on Czechoslovakia. A year later when Germany attacked Poland, Slovaks re-occupied the two districts. In that respect, you are right, they joined the Germans. It was quite minimal.

    If Slovak cavalry did more than feed its horses, and chase some village girls, I would be very surprised. I ride horses and that historical vignette is quite amusing, I have never heard about it before. We do like to chase cars from distance, so maybe it is true.

    Back to resentment: how many Poles did Russians killed between 1945-1989? And how many Poles are you willing to sacrifice next time Poland (as always before) joins the Western attack on the east? And aren't your endless border squabbles all with Ukraine and Belarus? Finally, when will the Poles grow up and stop acting as emotional tool used by the West?

    half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland

    1. Died occupying Poland. Poland wasn’t liberated, it was occupied by the Soviets. That the Soviets weren’t as horrible as the Nazis doesn’t make their presence less of an occupation.

    2. They obviously didn’t do so in order to “liberate” Poland but on the drive into Germany; Poland was simply in the way and they had to get through it.

    Prior to this conversation I had not known the extent of Slovakia’s behavior vis a vis Germany and Sovok. Thanks to utu for informing us.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    obviously didn’t do so in order to “liberate” Poland but on the drive into Germany
     
    You can say the same about UK in France or Belgium, 'obviously'. How do you know why people do something?

    Motivations are impossible to establish, people lie, people have a multitude of reasons, there are many different groups involved. I would stay away from assigning motivations, it can get really silly.


    Soviets weren’t as horrible as the Nazis
     
    That is all we can say. Based on the data I have seen they were about 1/10 as bad as the Nazis. That is a big difference. And they won. Winning comes with consequences, always has and always will. Poland lost, in your interpretation Poland lost twice. Losing comes with consequences too.
    , @Avery
    {Poland wasn’t liberated, it was occupied by the Soviets}

    There is occupation and there is occupation.
    During the 6-year Nazi occupation of Poland, 1939-1945, Germans murdered about 5.5 million Poles, about half Jewish and half Christians: true or false?

    How many Poles were murdered during the Soviet 'occupation' of Poland (1945-1990)?
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  82. Beckow says:
    @utu

    As many have pointed out before there is no such thing as ‘East Poland’, it is Ukraine and Belarus, it isn’t a part of Poland.
     
    And you are accusing me of being distracting? Occupied Eastern Poland had 13.7 million population out of which 38% was Polish, 37% Ukrainian, 14.5% Belorussians, 8.4% Jewish, 0.9% Russian, 0.8% German and 336 thousand of refugees from Poland under German occupation. While many Ukrainians and few Belorussians were hostile to Poland before the WWII they did look forward to being embraced by the USSR and its bogus artificially created republics which was clearly demonstrated by how happily Ukrainians and Belorussians were welcoming Wehrmacht and SS in June 1941. Every citizen of the pre WWII Poland whether Polish, Ukrainian or Belorussian and obviously Jewish would have given anything to return to the antebellum state if such a miracle would have been possible. It wasn't because Polish state was destroyed in September 1939 by Germany, USSR and Slovakia which started the WWII.

    In the period 1939-1941 prior to German invasion of the USSR 500,000 were arrested and 65,000 were murdered in the Eastern Poland under the Soviet occupation. There were four waves of deportation that included 500,000 people. It is estimated that 35% of them died in Siberia, Kazakhstan and the places. . The atrocities under the Soviet occupation at that time were not significantly lower than under the German occupation. As of June 22, 1941 nobody in Poland could tell who was worse or better: Germans or Soviets? Two equally evil forces!

    While the official number of Polish citizens killed during the WWII is at 6 million which includes 3 million of Jews, I believe that the number is exaggerated. Furthermore a significant part of this losses were at the hand of Soviets. The plans of extermination that Soviet propagandists like to blow up out of proportion are exaggerated. During WWII while various brutal reprisals were going on against Polish civilians nobody was under any inkling that some 'extermination' at the hands of Germans was imminent. The post WWII stories about the Generalplan Ost are all blown out of proportions and are mostly bogus. Though they are loved by Soviet propagandist so the can blow their trumpet as 'liberators' so hard that the fact that they started the WWWII is not heard and forgotten.

    You as Slovak and Sovok can't understand Poland's predicament. Slovakia joined Hitler and was quite happy with this arrangement and then happily embraced Soviet liberators or at least pretended to. Poland fought both Germans and Soviets while you were giving blow jobs to both of them. Poland was the only country that remained loyal to its allies and looked at the WWII from the perspective of it as a victim of aggression by Germany, USSR and Slovakia which starts the WWII. Poland's experience under both German and Soviet occupations made it impossible too see Soviet troops in 1944 as anything but the necessary evil at best. During and right after the so-called 'liberation' people in Poland were being rounded up by Red Army and NKVD, murdered and deported deep into Soviet Union.

    You refuse to address historical facts that don’t suit your story:
    - Poland joined Hitler at Munich in dismembering Czechoslovakia, taking two districts from Slovakia (Orava and Spis, 100% Slovak ethnically)
    - Slovakia’s involvement in Hitler’s attack on Poland a year later was limited to retaking those two districts
    - Your statistics for 1939 are disputed, but even those statistics show that East Poland, or more like Western Ukraine and Belarus had Ukrainian-Belorussian majority. And they were incorporated into Poland only after WWI. What goes around comes around.

    Russia signed the infamous pact in August 1939, 1 year after UK, France, Italy and even Poland allied with Nazi Germany in dismembering Czechoslovakia. You can repeat your self-brainwashing all day long, the fact is that Poland (and UK, France) allied themselves with Germany before Stalin’s Russia did it. They were all wrong, in retrospect.

    It is awkward to argue with someone who thinks that ‘not that many Poles were killed by Germans in WWII, that it is exaggerated’. Ok, so what is the number if not 3 million? 2 million? Does that make it better?

    The plans to eliminate the Poles were real (and also the Czechs). You argue that they were not ‘imminent’, I am not sure what that means. Are you ok with only 10% killed right away and the rest after Germans would win the war? How do you define ‘imminent’?

    I can see why next time nobody will give a damn at all, Polish ethno-masochism is beyond any rationality. Now Poland is posturing as a great place to have a nuclear war, literally painting a huge sign ‘Shoot here’ on its territory. As I said, quite sad.

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    • Replies: @utu

    Now Poland is posturing as a great place to have a nuclear war, literally painting a huge sign ‘Shoot here’ on its territory.
     
    I was always very critical of Poland's politics in recent years and also in 1938/39. Their posturing and unwillingness to cooperate and surrender costed them a lot. They just do not have the ability to give the blow jobs like Slovaks or Czechs to the biggest dick in the neighborhood. They haven't learned it and still retains foolish dreams and fantasies of self-importance as being a great nation rather than just a bunch of cocksuckers. In 1939 it was theoretically possible for Poland to resolve the conflict with Germany and get into some sort of alliance with Hitler. Even after September 1939 it was still possible to sign a surrender treaty and retain some level of sovereignty over part of its territory but nobody was designated as Polish Marechal Petain unfortunately which resulted in Poland becoming the killing field unlike the relatively peaceful Vichy. Jews had higher chance of survival in countries that were allied with Hitler (like Hungary) or that retained some sovereignty after the defeat (like Vichy) than in countries that were defeated by Hitler (like Poland or Holland). Obviously Slovakia is an outlier in this scheme because she did not use her high level of sovereignty to protect her Jews.
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  83. Beckow says:
    @AP

    half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland
     
    1. Died occupying Poland. Poland wasn't liberated, it was occupied by the Soviets. That the Soviets weren't as horrible as the Nazis doesn't make their presence less of an occupation.

    2. They obviously didn't do so in order to "liberate" Poland but on the drive into Germany; Poland was simply in the way and they had to get through it.

    Prior to this conversation I had not known the extent of Slovakia's behavior vis a vis Germany and Sovok. Thanks to utu for informing us.

    obviously didn’t do so in order to “liberate” Poland but on the drive into Germany

    You can say the same about UK in France or Belgium, ‘obviously’. How do you know why people do something?

    Motivations are impossible to establish, people lie, people have a multitude of reasons, there are many different groups involved. I would stay away from assigning motivations, it can get really silly.

    Soviets weren’t as horrible as the Nazis

    That is all we can say. Based on the data I have seen they were about 1/10 as bad as the Nazis. That is a big difference. And they won. Winning comes with consequences, always has and always will. Poland lost, in your interpretation Poland lost twice. Losing comes with consequences too.

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    • Replies: @AP

    You can say the same about UK in France or Belgium, ‘obviously’. How do you know why people do something?
     
    Do you think that the post-war governments of France or Belgium were as strongly controlled by the UK or USA as Poland's was by the USSR?

    Motivations are impossible to establish
     
    As the Soviets rolled through Poland they arrested and murdered non-Soviet (and anti-German) Poles and established a puppet-dictatorship. So clearly motivation was not liberation for Poland. It was primarily defeat of Germany (requiring a march through Poland) and secondary to that, occupation of Poland.
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  84. annamaria says:
    @Quartermaster
    So, you want me to lie like Saker? Sorry, ain't happening. Put your lies where the sun don't shine.

    It is not our problem that the facts have the anti-Quartermaster bias: “America’s Collusion With Neo-Nazis. Neo-fascists play an important official or tolerated role in US-backed Ukraine.” By Stephen F. Cohen: https://www.thenation.com/article/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/
    “… few realities are more important than the role played by neo-fascist forces in U.S.-backed, Kiev-governed Ukraine since 2014. Not even many Americans who follow international news know the following, for example:
    — That the snipers who killed scores of protesters and policemen on Kiev’s Maidan Square in February 2014, thereby triggering a “democratic revolution” that overthrew the elected president, Viktor Yanukovych, and brought to power a virulent anti-Russian, pro-American regime — it was neither democratic nor a revolution, but a violent coup unfolding in the streets with high-level support — were sent … almost certainly by the neo-fascist organization Right Sector and its co-conspirators.
    — That the pogrom-like burning to death of ethnic Russians and others in Odessa shortly later in 2014 reawakened memories of Nazi extermination squads in Ukraine during World War II has been all but deleted from the American mainstream narrative even though it remains a painful and revelatory experience for many Ukrainians.
    — That the Azov Battalion of some 3,000 well-armed fighters, which has played a major combat role in the Ukrainian civil war and now is an official component of Kiev’s armed forces, is avowedly “partially” pro-Nazi, as evidenced by its regalia, slogans, and programmatic statements, and well-documented as such by several international monitoring organizations. …
    — That stormtroop-like assaults on gays, Jews, elderly ethnic Russians, and other “impure” citizens are widespread throughout Kiev-ruled Ukraine, along with torchlight marches reminiscent of those that eventually inflamed Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s. And that the police and official legal authorities do virtually nothing to prevent these neo-fascist acts or to prosecute them. On the contrary, Kiev has officially encouraged them by systematically rehabilitating and even memorializing Ukrainian collaborators with Nazi German extermination pogroms and their leaders during World War II, renaming streets in their honor, building monuments to them, rewriting history to glorify them, and more.”
    The Nation is an American journal with the main office in New York, New York, 10018
    The Nation’s credo: “We believe in intellectual freedom. We value facts and transparency. We argue that dissent is patriotic and we hold the powerful to account, no matter their political persuasion. … Above all, we aspire to galvanize a more informed public—one equipped with a more profound understanding of events, ideas, and history.”

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  85. Avery says:
    @AP

    half million Russian soldiers who died liberating Poland
     
    1. Died occupying Poland. Poland wasn't liberated, it was occupied by the Soviets. That the Soviets weren't as horrible as the Nazis doesn't make their presence less of an occupation.

    2. They obviously didn't do so in order to "liberate" Poland but on the drive into Germany; Poland was simply in the way and they had to get through it.

    Prior to this conversation I had not known the extent of Slovakia's behavior vis a vis Germany and Sovok. Thanks to utu for informing us.

    {Poland wasn’t liberated, it was occupied by the Soviets}

    There is occupation and there is occupation.
    During the 6-year Nazi occupation of Poland, 1939-1945, Germans murdered about 5.5 million Poles, about half Jewish and half Christians: true or false?

    How many Poles were murdered during the Soviet ‘occupation’ of Poland (1945-1990)?

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Were both Stalin and Hitler contract-killers?

    FDR funded USSR, working around State Dept and instead delegating Henry Morgenthau,Jr to negotiate w/ Stalin's people ; friend-of-FDR Putzi Hanfstaengel discovered Hitler, brought him to the attention of US, funded publication of Mein Kampf; Zionists and Jewish bankers inter alia funded Hitler -- Germany goes from hyperinflation to thousands of men in Hugo Boss on what, fees Adolf got for speeches on Wall Street?

    So many Eastern European Jews were surplus, useless eaters; elite Jews wanted the herd culled, surplus Jews dead. Elite Jews -- German Jews, were herded to safety; the rest, zionists arranged to have them killed. FDR and Churchill were Cesare Borgia and Hitler and Stalin were their Orca.
    Machiavelli was anything but original; the leader he admired most was Moses, who consulted with God himself. At Mt. Sinai God instructed that non-conforming Jews must be killed, the Levites carried out the task: Jews killed Jews thru a divinely-designated agent-killer. Michael Ledeen self-identifies as a "proud Levite."

    Zionism was a eugenic project: the vision was never to bring ALL Jews to Palestine/Israel, it was to select the best "human material" from a largely Degenerated populace and turn the selected into the New Jew.

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  86. AP says:
    @Beckow

    obviously didn’t do so in order to “liberate” Poland but on the drive into Germany
     
    You can say the same about UK in France or Belgium, 'obviously'. How do you know why people do something?

    Motivations are impossible to establish, people lie, people have a multitude of reasons, there are many different groups involved. I would stay away from assigning motivations, it can get really silly.


    Soviets weren’t as horrible as the Nazis
     
    That is all we can say. Based on the data I have seen they were about 1/10 as bad as the Nazis. That is a big difference. And they won. Winning comes with consequences, always has and always will. Poland lost, in your interpretation Poland lost twice. Losing comes with consequences too.

    You can say the same about UK in France or Belgium, ‘obviously’. How do you know why people do something?

    Do you think that the post-war governments of France or Belgium were as strongly controlled by the UK or USA as Poland’s was by the USSR?

    Motivations are impossible to establish

    As the Soviets rolled through Poland they arrested and murdered non-Soviet (and anti-German) Poles and established a puppet-dictatorship. So clearly motivation was not liberation for Poland. It was primarily defeat of Germany (requiring a march through Poland) and secondary to that, occupation of Poland.

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  87. Beckow says:

    You believe what you want to believe. How many Poles were arrested and murdered by Soviets in Poland between 1945-89? Give us a number, or stop with the empty slogans. How many over 45 years?

    Motivation is very complex, e.g. many Soviets genuinely believed that ‘socialism‘ was superior, that by bringing it to Poland they were ‘liberating’ the Polish people. In their mind, they were liberators and that counts for something.

    Post-war governments in Western Europe were controlled by US, some more (Germany, Italy), some less (France). But they were all supervised.

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    • Replies: @AP

    You believe what you want to believe
     
    It's not a matter of belief but a matter of fact. The fact is that the Soviets began repressing Poles upon entering Polish soil. This tells us liberation was not a goal.

    How many Poles were arrested and murdered by Soviets in Poland between 1945-89
     
    Why not begin in 1939? Was it somehow a different regime with different goals for Poland?

    There is plenty here about that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946)#The_reign_of_terror

    320,000 deported, another 150,000 to 500,000 died.

    Post-war governments in Western Europe were controlled by US, some more (Germany, Italy), some less (France). But they were all supervised.
     
    And you imply that this supervsion was somehow comparable to the Polish experience under the Soviets?
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  88. AP says:
    @Beckow
    You believe what you want to believe. How many Poles were arrested and murdered by Soviets in Poland between 1945-89? Give us a number, or stop with the empty slogans. How many over 45 years?

    Motivation is very complex, e.g. many Soviets genuinely believed that 'socialism' was superior, that by bringing it to Poland they were 'liberating' the Polish people. In their mind, they were liberators and that counts for something.

    Post-war governments in Western Europe were controlled by US, some more (Germany, Italy), some less (France). But they were all supervised.

    You believe what you want to believe

    It’s not a matter of belief but a matter of fact. The fact is that the Soviets began repressing Poles upon entering Polish soil. This tells us liberation was not a goal.

    How many Poles were arrested and murdered by Soviets in Poland between 1945-89

    Why not begin in 1939? Was it somehow a different regime with different goals for Poland?

    There is plenty here about that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946)#The_reign_of_terror

    320,000 deported, another 150,000 to 500,000 died.

    Post-war governments in Western Europe were controlled by US, some more (Germany, Italy), some less (France). But they were all supervised.

    And you imply that this supervsion was somehow comparable to the Polish experience under the Soviets?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Your reading of history is so horribly biased that I laughed a lot at your mindless comments. Of course, I would have preferred not to be occupied by anyone if I were a Pole. But Polish volunteering to be the Janissaries of the West has always been pathetic, even more so then that of the Balts. In this respect, the Poles are even worse than their Catholic cousins, the Croatians (where is peterAUS when you need him?). But this time the price of such behavior will be much much worse than usual.

    It is bad to say so, but there are truly some really dumb whole nations because the majority is dumb (never learns).

    PS It does not seem that many of the European nations were clean at the beginning of WW2, everyone was trying to grab a piece of someone else’s land. Today, the only difference is who more persistently declares himself a victim, the old Jewish trick.
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  89. Kiza says:
    @AP

    You believe what you want to believe
     
    It's not a matter of belief but a matter of fact. The fact is that the Soviets began repressing Poles upon entering Polish soil. This tells us liberation was not a goal.

    How many Poles were arrested and murdered by Soviets in Poland between 1945-89
     
    Why not begin in 1939? Was it somehow a different regime with different goals for Poland?

    There is plenty here about that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946)#The_reign_of_terror

    320,000 deported, another 150,000 to 500,000 died.

    Post-war governments in Western Europe were controlled by US, some more (Germany, Italy), some less (France). But they were all supervised.
     
    And you imply that this supervsion was somehow comparable to the Polish experience under the Soviets?

    Your reading of history is so horribly biased that I laughed a lot at your mindless comments. Of course, I would have preferred not to be occupied by anyone if I were a Pole. But Polish volunteering to be the Janissaries of the West has always been pathetic, even more so then that of the Balts. In this respect, the Poles are even worse than their Catholic cousins, the Croatians (where is peterAUS when you need him?). But this time the price of such behavior will be much much worse than usual.

    It is bad to say so, but there are truly some really dumb whole nations because the majority is dumb (never learns).

    PS It does not seem that many of the European nations were clean at the beginning of WW2, everyone was trying to grab a piece of someone else’s land. Today, the only difference is who more persistently declares himself a victim, the old Jewish trick.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    None of those “pro-Polish” posters cared to explain why Churchill called Poland “the hyena of Europe”. That alone tells you everything you need to know about them and their “information”.

    I disagree that there is such a thing as a “dumb nation”. However, there are nations that consistently produce truly dumb leadership. Poland is one of those, it always took the wrong (losing) side. Poland invaded Russia (Polish-Russian wars 1605-1618) at the “time of troubles” (dynastic crisis in Russia), backing False Dimitry I. Poles even captured Moscow, but ended up eating each other inside besieged Kremlin. Next Poles joined Napoleon and again lost big. Then Poles angered Bolsheviks by starving to death thousands of Russian POWs and annexing large territories populated by Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians (including current Lithuanian capital Vilnius). Then Pilsudski tried to ally himself with Hitler, assuming (wrongly) that Germany would treat Poland as a serious power. Hitler even looked the other way when Poland snatched a piece of Czechoslovakia, dismembered and occupied by Hitler upon tentative go-ahead from the UK and France (Munich agreement of 1938). That ended with eventual occupation of Poland by Germany, with the USSR taking whatever parts it could claim, and later horrible Volhynia massacre of Poles, including women and children, by Bandera followers (the pictures are all over the internet – Ukrainian nationalists were too dumb to even be ashamed of their despicable crimes). In the end Stalin had to separate Poles and Ukrainians by moving the latter East and the former West. Then Poland joined NATO. If I wished NATO well, I’d advise it to expel Poland ASAP, simply for the sake of self-preservation.
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  90. Beckow says:

    Unfortunately, the emotional absurdity has taken over their minds. Why would a long suffering nation like Poles (who also inflicted suffering on others), why would these bitter exile characters work so hard on exaggerating anything related to Russia, and downplaying anything related to the West?

    I got no answer for the number of actual victims in Poland in 1945-89, because it doesn’t fit their narrative. For comparison in Czechoslovakia the West-centric government has spent last few decades trying to document the victims of 1945-89. After including everyone they could, including people charged by the ‘communists’ with collaboration with the Nazis, after including people who died while in internment, after including even a few actual criminals who shot police or banks (as ‘struggle for freedom’), they came up with 10,000 overall victims and 500 executions in 1945-89. 80% of the 500 were sentenced for being Nazi collaborators, including many Sudeten Germans. Among the remaining 100 sentences, around 50% were communists killed by other communists in the early 50′s power struggles. Yes, there were a few horrible victims, but they were in a few dozens, not hundreds of thousands. Germans on average killed a few dozen Czechs per day, the number of killed in Greece, Turkey, Spain and Portugal was in thousands (all supervised by the West).

    Few additional points: the last killing was in 1953. There were literally zero in 1954-89 period. There were a total of 110,000 people charged and sentenced for what I would consider political crimes: resisting ‘collectivisation’, religious zealotry, trying to illegally avoid military service or escape to the West. The average sentence was 18 months in a labor camp, some served more, but most were released after 1 year. All of this was unjust, but we need to keep a perspective: after the tens of millions who died in the WWII carnage, how does it compare? And 90% of it happened in the first 10 years after WWII. By 1980′s one would have to work very hard to find anything approaching a political prisoner in Czechoslovakia. There were a few dozen sentenced for ‘avoiding work’ or ‘not declaring gifts fro the West (Havel’s case).

    The Polish nationalists give us absurd numbers, but even their most anti-Russian interpretation would still be Germans being at least 10 times worse in 6 years than Russia was in 50 years.

    Obsessive brown-nosing cannot be cured. We say ‘kto chce tam, pomozme mu tam’ – probably easily understood, ‘who wants to go there, help him go’. Majority of Poles have lost a sense of proportion and live in a hatred-filled self-defeating morass. Whatever happens next, they only have their own insatiable hatred to thank for.

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  91. @Kiza
    Your reading of history is so horribly biased that I laughed a lot at your mindless comments. Of course, I would have preferred not to be occupied by anyone if I were a Pole. But Polish volunteering to be the Janissaries of the West has always been pathetic, even more so then that of the Balts. In this respect, the Poles are even worse than their Catholic cousins, the Croatians (where is peterAUS when you need him?). But this time the price of such behavior will be much much worse than usual.

    It is bad to say so, but there are truly some really dumb whole nations because the majority is dumb (never learns).

    PS It does not seem that many of the European nations were clean at the beginning of WW2, everyone was trying to grab a piece of someone else’s land. Today, the only difference is who more persistently declares himself a victim, the old Jewish trick.

    None of those “pro-Polish” posters cared to explain why Churchill called Poland “the hyena of Europe”. That alone tells you everything you need to know about them and their “information”.

    I disagree that there is such a thing as a “dumb nation”. However, there are nations that consistently produce truly dumb leadership. Poland is one of those, it always took the wrong (losing) side. Poland invaded Russia (Polish-Russian wars 1605-1618) at the “time of troubles” (dynastic crisis in Russia), backing False Dimitry I. Poles even captured Moscow, but ended up eating each other inside besieged Kremlin. Next Poles joined Napoleon and again lost big. Then Poles angered Bolsheviks by starving to death thousands of Russian POWs and annexing large territories populated by Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians (including current Lithuanian capital Vilnius). Then Pilsudski tried to ally himself with Hitler, assuming (wrongly) that Germany would treat Poland as a serious power. Hitler even looked the other way when Poland snatched a piece of Czechoslovakia, dismembered and occupied by Hitler upon tentative go-ahead from the UK and France (Munich agreement of 1938). That ended with eventual occupation of Poland by Germany, with the USSR taking whatever parts it could claim, and later horrible Volhynia massacre of Poles, including women and children, by Bandera followers (the pictures are all over the internet – Ukrainian nationalists were too dumb to even be ashamed of their despicable crimes). In the end Stalin had to separate Poles and Ukrainians by moving the latter East and the former West. Then Poland joined NATO. If I wished NATO well, I’d advise it to expel Poland ASAP, simply for the sake of self-preservation.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    They do produce some dumb leaders, but that must to some extent reflect the general population. Poles simply don't like who they are, they have spent decades trying to pretend that they live somewhere north-west of Iceland, and anything east of them reminds them too much who they really are. So they hate.

    Poland snatched a piece of Czechoslovakia, dismembered and occupied by Hitler upon tentative go-ahead from the UK and France (Munich agreement of 1938).
     
    It wasn't tentative. UK and France literally redrew the borders and handed it to Hitler on a silver plate. (It was similar to Kosovo in 1999.) Poland moved in militarily and even detained about a thousand Czech officials and intellectuals. The methods used by Germans and Soviets were used by many others at that time, e.g. Poles did intentionally kill Soviet POWs after 1920 (and actually used to boast about it).
    , @Wally
    said:
    " That ended with eventual occupation of Poland by Germany, with the USSR taking whatever parts it could claim ..."

    The USSR invaded & seized 60% of Poland, not "whatever parts it could claim ..."

    BTW:
    The USSR invaded Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, invaded & annexed parts of Romania, invaded Iran, invaded northern Norway and the Danish island of Bornholm, yet the ‘Allies’ did nothing.

    www.codoh.com
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  92. eyeslevel says: • Website

    The most objective indicator of who was more evil is which way did the civilian population run when an enemy army was approaching. Did more of them run toward the Nazis or did more of them run toward the Soviets? Elie Wiesel was given a choice and he went with the Nazis.

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  93. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    None of those “pro-Polish” posters cared to explain why Churchill called Poland “the hyena of Europe”. That alone tells you everything you need to know about them and their “information”.

    I disagree that there is such a thing as a “dumb nation”. However, there are nations that consistently produce truly dumb leadership. Poland is one of those, it always took the wrong (losing) side. Poland invaded Russia (Polish-Russian wars 1605-1618) at the “time of troubles” (dynastic crisis in Russia), backing False Dimitry I. Poles even captured Moscow, but ended up eating each other inside besieged Kremlin. Next Poles joined Napoleon and again lost big. Then Poles angered Bolsheviks by starving to death thousands of Russian POWs and annexing large territories populated by Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians (including current Lithuanian capital Vilnius). Then Pilsudski tried to ally himself with Hitler, assuming (wrongly) that Germany would treat Poland as a serious power. Hitler even looked the other way when Poland snatched a piece of Czechoslovakia, dismembered and occupied by Hitler upon tentative go-ahead from the UK and France (Munich agreement of 1938). That ended with eventual occupation of Poland by Germany, with the USSR taking whatever parts it could claim, and later horrible Volhynia massacre of Poles, including women and children, by Bandera followers (the pictures are all over the internet – Ukrainian nationalists were too dumb to even be ashamed of their despicable crimes). In the end Stalin had to separate Poles and Ukrainians by moving the latter East and the former West. Then Poland joined NATO. If I wished NATO well, I’d advise it to expel Poland ASAP, simply for the sake of self-preservation.

    They do produce some dumb leaders, but that must to some extent reflect the general population. Poles simply don’t like who they are, they have spent decades trying to pretend that they live somewhere north-west of Iceland, and anything east of them reminds them too much who they really are. So they hate.

    Poland snatched a piece of Czechoslovakia, dismembered and occupied by Hitler upon tentative go-ahead from the UK and France (Munich agreement of 1938).

    It wasn’t tentative. UK and France literally redrew the borders and handed it to Hitler on a silver plate. (It was similar to Kosovo in 1999.) Poland moved in militarily and even detained about a thousand Czech officials and intellectuals. The methods used by Germans and Soviets were used by many others at that time, e.g. Poles did intentionally kill Soviet POWs after 1920 (and actually used to boast about it).

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Poland is afflicted by a severe inferiority complex. For reasons known only to them they believe that Poland can be a leader of the Slavic world. Based on that delusion they hate and resent Russia, which is and always was the most successful and powerful Slavic country. Their belief in their “leadership” is as ridiculous as if Austria believed that it’s the leader of Germanic world. However, Austrians see the reality and therefore don’t suffer from an inferiority complex.
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  94. @Beckow
    They do produce some dumb leaders, but that must to some extent reflect the general population. Poles simply don't like who they are, they have spent decades trying to pretend that they live somewhere north-west of Iceland, and anything east of them reminds them too much who they really are. So they hate.

    Poland snatched a piece of Czechoslovakia, dismembered and occupied by Hitler upon tentative go-ahead from the UK and France (Munich agreement of 1938).
     
    It wasn't tentative. UK and France literally redrew the borders and handed it to Hitler on a silver plate. (It was similar to Kosovo in 1999.) Poland moved in militarily and even detained about a thousand Czech officials and intellectuals. The methods used by Germans and Soviets were used by many others at that time, e.g. Poles did intentionally kill Soviet POWs after 1920 (and actually used to boast about it).

    Poland is afflicted by a severe inferiority complex. For reasons known only to them they believe that Poland can be a leader of the Slavic world. Based on that delusion they hate and resent Russia, which is and always was the most successful and powerful Slavic country. Their belief in their “leadership” is as ridiculous as if Austria believed that it’s the leader of Germanic world. However, Austrians see the reality and therefore don’t suffer from an inferiority complex.

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  95. @Beckow
    I don't think you realize that armies need supplies. To break into Donbas cities would be hard enough, but to re-supply them would be impossible. Civilians would mostly evacuate, so there would be little to 'hide in'. Kiev cannot win militarily as long as Russia opposes it. Russia can always blast their bases from air, or with missiles. Don't kid yourself, if Russia has the will, they will prevail.

    Since you mentioned 2014, there was a perfect opportunity for Maidanistas to avoid this. All they had to do was to be friendly and accommodating to its Russian minority. Offer them autonomy, re-assure them, promise that trade and ties with Russia would continue. Kiev did the exact opposite, an extremely bad tactic. US kept on telling them to cool it, that one doesn't win by attacking before ready. But in Kiev emotions prevailed, and so we are where we are.

    Sooner or later a more accommodating government in Kiev will try the 'let bygones be bygones' tactic on Russia. If we are lucky enough to make it that far.

    In what way would resupply be impossible? There are no such troubles in Slavyansk. This is no longer the Ukrainian army without the money for fuel for its vehicles, no tents, no changes of underclothes for troops away from barracks etc etc.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    In what way would resupply be impossible?
     
    Russian air power, including short and medium range missiles. Include long range mobile tubed artillery and MRLS too.

    Any scenario including Ukrainian attack on Donbass and full Russian defense of that entity would be short, bloody and disastrous for Ukraine.

    Keywords: attack, full, defense.
    , @Beckow
    Clean underwear doesn't do much against air power and missiles. It actually might get dirty rather quickly...

    You either take what Russia says seriously, and any attack would be a suicide. Or you can try them, maybe they are bluffing.
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  96. Parbes says:
    @eyeslevel
    Freedom and diversity are incompatible. There never has been a multiracial democracy and there never will be. The more multiracial a country gets, the more authoritarian it needs to be. The less you control the border, the more you need to control the people. If Russia is concerned about authoritarianism developing in Europe, it's leaders need to speak out more forcefully against the ongoing non-white invasion of Europe. For security reasons, Russia also needs to be concerned about a huge nuclear armed brown Muslim conglomeration developing on its western border.

    Additionally, Russia needs to fulfill its obligations as a civilized power and enforce the international law against genocide (UN Resolution 260). Under international law, genocide is any attempt to eliminate a group by any means. Mass non-white immigration combined with forced assimilation and 24/7/365 miscegenation propaganda is clearly an attempt to force-blend whites out of existence in Europe. Countries that resist invasion are being sued by the European Union to try to force them to open their borders and let the third world pour in. The intent for white genocide in Europe was clearly stated by the man considered to be the Godfather of the European Union, Richard Kalergi, when he wrote, in 1925, "The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals." In a recent interview, Emmanuel Macron echoed Kalergi by stating that there would be a huge wave of migrants from Africa and that "Europe has its destiny bound with Africa". Putin should throw out hints that he may constitute genocide tribunals for European leaders clearly guilty of white genocide.

    This.

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  97. peterAUS says:
    @Philip Owen
    In what way would resupply be impossible? There are no such troubles in Slavyansk. This is no longer the Ukrainian army without the money for fuel for its vehicles, no tents, no changes of underclothes for troops away from barracks etc etc.

    In what way would resupply be impossible?

    Russian air power, including short and medium range missiles. Include long range mobile tubed artillery and MRLS too.

    Any scenario including Ukrainian attack on Donbass and full Russian defense of that entity would be short, bloody and disastrous for Ukraine.

    Keywords: attack, full, defense.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Ukraine can use a simple trick: don’t attack in the area where the locals hate your guts. Then Russian military hardware would be irrelevant.
    , @Philip Owen
    Overt Russian support for their Quislings would be politically impossible. Russia's growth rate is 1.5%. The oligarchs protected from Ukrainian and EU competition are already looting the country for more than ever happened under Yeltsin. (The FAS has recently prosecuted EVRAZ for monopolistic practices for the supply of railway wheel tires. Shutting out Ukrainian competition was one of the original reasons for the Russian blockade that triggered the Maidan).

    I can't see Ukraine attacking. (I was competing on someone else's lust for war porn). The longer Ukraine waits the greater Russia's need to rid itself of Donbass.
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  98. @peterAUS

    In what way would resupply be impossible?
     
    Russian air power, including short and medium range missiles. Include long range mobile tubed artillery and MRLS too.

    Any scenario including Ukrainian attack on Donbass and full Russian defense of that entity would be short, bloody and disastrous for Ukraine.

    Keywords: attack, full, defense.

    Ukraine can use a simple trick: don’t attack in the area where the locals hate your guts. Then Russian military hardware would be irrelevant.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    Are there any areas like that? A basic rule is to never try to occupy a hostile population. As far as I can tell, Crimea and Donbas are friendly towards Russia, it actually cannot be labeled an occupation if the population is on their side.
    , @peterAUS
    I'll bite.

    Not because of the comment but rather plausible scenario.

    Scenario:
    Ukraine attacks just a carefully selected, small part, of Donbass.
    Strategically, operationally, even tactically irelevant.

    Politically, even more psychologically, utterly important of course.
    The principle; the red line.
    No need to explain that, I think.

    I can probably pick dozens of such spots along the line there.

    Say, Ukrainian forces simply "get in" 5 Kms depth and 10 Kms width, stop and start digging in.

    The Question is very simple: would Donbass counterattack to evict them?
    Or, The QUESTION is, would RF help them in full, immediate, by the book? The book includes air strikes in operational, even strategic depth of the attacker.

    Now....I don't know the answer.
    Rusophiles do, of course.

    I do know what would mean if RF doesn't do that.

    I am also sure that Rusophiles would explain that nicely. To all those naive souls still waiting for a miracle.

    They do happen.

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  99. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Ukraine can use a simple trick: don’t attack in the area where the locals hate your guts. Then Russian military hardware would be irrelevant.

    Are there any areas like that? A basic rule is to never try to occupy a hostile population. As far as I can tell, Crimea and Donbas are friendly towards Russia, it actually cannot be labeled an occupation if the population is on their side.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    To the best of my knowledge (I am not from Crimea), more than 90% of the population of Crimea is happy that it escaped the madhouse current Ukraine became thanks to the “liberal West” without any loss of life. Donbass was not so lucky. I grew up in Lugansk and know a lot of people there. Brief summary is that they all hate current Nazi Ukraine, with about 50:50 split between those who want to join Russia and those who want to remain independent. The same anti-Nazi feelings and the same split of opinions is in the areas Ukraine currently occupies (the people in Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics call the parts of their regions under Ukrainian control “occupied territories”).
    , @Philip Owen
    There is no guerilla resistance to Ukraine in the third of the area captured by Russian insurgents. On the other hand, the majority of insurgent leaders have been assassinated. According to Zakharenko, who always tells the truth, they were killed by Ukrainians, even if SBU, that implies a lot of local support. (Surely they weren't killed by the FSB?).

    More seriously ethnic Russians were only 40% of the population and only half of them supported union with Russia in January 2013. Of course, 1.5 million Ukrainians have been driven out of the Donbass, original population 4 million by peace loving Russian nationalists, so the currently resident population is probably about 50/50. Still enough Ukrainians to lynch Moscow puppets when the fake regimes break down.
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  100. Beckow says:
    @Philip Owen
    In what way would resupply be impossible? There are no such troubles in Slavyansk. This is no longer the Ukrainian army without the money for fuel for its vehicles, no tents, no changes of underclothes for troops away from barracks etc etc.

    Clean underwear doesn’t do much against air power and missiles. It actually might get dirty rather quickly…

    You either take what Russia says seriously, and any attack would be a suicide. Or you can try them, maybe they are bluffing.

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  101. @Beckow
    Are there any areas like that? A basic rule is to never try to occupy a hostile population. As far as I can tell, Crimea and Donbas are friendly towards Russia, it actually cannot be labeled an occupation if the population is on their side.

    To the best of my knowledge (I am not from Crimea), more than 90% of the population of Crimea is happy that it escaped the madhouse current Ukraine became thanks to the “liberal West” without any loss of life. Donbass was not so lucky. I grew up in Lugansk and know a lot of people there. Brief summary is that they all hate current Nazi Ukraine, with about 50:50 split between those who want to join Russia and those who want to remain independent. The same anti-Nazi feelings and the same split of opinions is in the areas Ukraine currently occupies (the people in Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics call the parts of their regions under Ukrainian control “occupied territories”).

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  102. peterAUS says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Ukraine can use a simple trick: don’t attack in the area where the locals hate your guts. Then Russian military hardware would be irrelevant.

    I’ll bite.

    Not because of the comment but rather plausible scenario.

    Scenario:
    Ukraine attacks just a carefully selected, small part, of Donbass.
    Strategically, operationally, even tactically irelevant.

    Politically, even more psychologically, utterly important of course.
    The principle; the red line.
    No need to explain that, I think.

    I can probably pick dozens of such spots along the line there.

    Say, Ukrainian forces simply “get in” 5 Kms depth and 10 Kms width, stop and start digging in.

    The Question is very simple: would Donbass counterattack to evict them?
    Or, The QUESTION is, would RF help them in full, immediate, by the book? The book includes air strikes in operational, even strategic depth of the attacker.

    Now….I don’t know the answer.
    Rusophiles do, of course.

    I do know what would mean if RF doesn’t do that.

    I am also sure that Rusophiles would explain that nicely. To all those naive souls still waiting for a miracle.

    They do happen.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Minor problem: if Ukraine attacks like you describe, locally, this attack will be repelled by the Republics even w/o significant Russian help. Attacking units of the Ukrainian army would be beaten to pulp, like in 2014. Russia would have to intervene if Ukraine throws all of its military force at the Republics. That would be the end of current mad Nazi Ukraine. Another good thing that would come out of it is that even Putin won’t have any more illusions about possible cooperation with pathetic “liberal” Europe. He’d have to do what the majority of Russian populace wants him to do: send all those US poodles to Hell and deal only with countries worth dealing with, China, the rest of Asia, Latin America, and Africa. Mind you, Putin is the most pro-Western ruler Russia would tolerate under current circumstances. The West will rue the day when he is gone.
    , @Philip Owen
    It already happened. The insurgets lost a third of their territory. They hold on because they are embedded in the cities surrounded by civilians.
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  103. @peterAUS
    I'll bite.

    Not because of the comment but rather plausible scenario.

    Scenario:
    Ukraine attacks just a carefully selected, small part, of Donbass.
    Strategically, operationally, even tactically irelevant.

    Politically, even more psychologically, utterly important of course.
    The principle; the red line.
    No need to explain that, I think.

    I can probably pick dozens of such spots along the line there.

    Say, Ukrainian forces simply "get in" 5 Kms depth and 10 Kms width, stop and start digging in.

    The Question is very simple: would Donbass counterattack to evict them?
    Or, The QUESTION is, would RF help them in full, immediate, by the book? The book includes air strikes in operational, even strategic depth of the attacker.

    Now....I don't know the answer.
    Rusophiles do, of course.

    I do know what would mean if RF doesn't do that.

    I am also sure that Rusophiles would explain that nicely. To all those naive souls still waiting for a miracle.

    They do happen.

    Minor problem: if Ukraine attacks like you describe, locally, this attack will be repelled by the Republics even w/o significant Russian help. Attacking units of the Ukrainian army would be beaten to pulp, like in 2014. Russia would have to intervene if Ukraine throws all of its military force at the Republics. That would be the end of current mad Nazi Ukraine. Another good thing that would come out of it is that even Putin won’t have any more illusions about possible cooperation with pathetic “liberal” Europe. He’d have to do what the majority of Russian populace wants him to do: send all those US poodles to Hell and deal only with countries worth dealing with, China, the rest of Asia, Latin America, and Africa. Mind you, Putin is the most pro-Western ruler Russia would tolerate under current circumstances. The West will rue the day when he is gone.

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  104. @peterAUS

    In what way would resupply be impossible?
     
    Russian air power, including short and medium range missiles. Include long range mobile tubed artillery and MRLS too.

    Any scenario including Ukrainian attack on Donbass and full Russian defense of that entity would be short, bloody and disastrous for Ukraine.

    Keywords: attack, full, defense.

    Overt Russian support for their Quislings would be politically impossible. Russia’s growth rate is 1.5%. The oligarchs protected from Ukrainian and EU competition are already looting the country for more than ever happened under Yeltsin. (The FAS has recently prosecuted EVRAZ for monopolistic practices for the supply of railway wheel tires. Shutting out Ukrainian competition was one of the original reasons for the Russian blockade that triggered the Maidan).

    I can’t see Ukraine attacking. (I was competing on someone else’s lust for war porn). The longer Ukraine waits the greater Russia’s need to rid itself of Donbass.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN

    railway wheel tires
     
    Did you ever see railway wheels with tires? Are you writing from the XVIIIth century via a time machine? Just asking.
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  105. @Beckow
    Are there any areas like that? A basic rule is to never try to occupy a hostile population. As far as I can tell, Crimea and Donbas are friendly towards Russia, it actually cannot be labeled an occupation if the population is on their side.

    There is no guerilla resistance to Ukraine in the third of the area captured by Russian insurgents. On the other hand, the majority of insurgent leaders have been assassinated. According to Zakharenko, who always tells the truth, they were killed by Ukrainians, even if SBU, that implies a lot of local support. (Surely they weren’t killed by the FSB?).

    More seriously ethnic Russians were only 40% of the population and only half of them supported union with Russia in January 2013. Of course, 1.5 million Ukrainians have been driven out of the Donbass, original population 4 million by peace loving Russian nationalists, so the currently resident population is probably about 50/50. Still enough Ukrainians to lynch Moscow puppets when the fake regimes break down.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Moscow puppets when the fake regimes break down
     
    What if they don't break down? Everybody in Ukraine is waiting for their enemies to collapse. They all describe the other side(s) as puppets, fake, impostors, Nazis, oligarchs, whatever. I think all sides in Ukraine are more or less legitimate - they represent their own interests, those interests are real. It is a mistake to dismiss one's enemy as 'fake'. It prevents understanding of what the conflict is all about, it prevents a necessary compromise.

    If you sit in Kiev and wait for the 'fake' separatists to disappear, you will wait for a long time. But same is true about the other side that believes that post-Maidan government will inevitably collapse. I don't think this will get resolved by one or the other side suddenly vanishing, they also represent real interests, minority rights vs. sovereignty, EU travel vs. trade with Russia. It is only because the post-Maidan initial leaders were absolutely tone-deaf that the real interests of the other side were pushed aside, triggering a counter-reaction, and eventually the current mess. The way forward is to start seeing the enemies (all of them) as real, as having real interests that need to be taken into account.
    , @VojkanM
    I wonder:
    a) you are dumb, God bless the innocent
    b) you are a mythomaniac, God be merciful upon the fools
    c) you're an a**hole, God, ...ahem, God You do as it suits You...
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  106. @peterAUS
    I'll bite.

    Not because of the comment but rather plausible scenario.

    Scenario:
    Ukraine attacks just a carefully selected, small part, of Donbass.
    Strategically, operationally, even tactically irelevant.

    Politically, even more psychologically, utterly important of course.
    The principle; the red line.
    No need to explain that, I think.

    I can probably pick dozens of such spots along the line there.

    Say, Ukrainian forces simply "get in" 5 Kms depth and 10 Kms width, stop and start digging in.

    The Question is very simple: would Donbass counterattack to evict them?
    Or, The QUESTION is, would RF help them in full, immediate, by the book? The book includes air strikes in operational, even strategic depth of the attacker.

    Now....I don't know the answer.
    Rusophiles do, of course.

    I do know what would mean if RF doesn't do that.

    I am also sure that Rusophiles would explain that nicely. To all those naive souls still waiting for a miracle.

    They do happen.

    It already happened. The insurgets lost a third of their territory. They hold on because they are embedded in the cities surrounded by civilians.

    Read More
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  107. @Philip Owen
    Overt Russian support for their Quislings would be politically impossible. Russia's growth rate is 1.5%. The oligarchs protected from Ukrainian and EU competition are already looting the country for more than ever happened under Yeltsin. (The FAS has recently prosecuted EVRAZ for monopolistic practices for the supply of railway wheel tires. Shutting out Ukrainian competition was one of the original reasons for the Russian blockade that triggered the Maidan).

    I can't see Ukraine attacking. (I was competing on someone else's lust for war porn). The longer Ukraine waits the greater Russia's need to rid itself of Donbass.

    railway wheel tires

    Did you ever see railway wheels with tires? Are you writing from the XVIIIth century via a time machine? Just asking.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Steel tires. You are being very American.
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  108. Beckow says:
    @Philip Owen
    There is no guerilla resistance to Ukraine in the third of the area captured by Russian insurgents. On the other hand, the majority of insurgent leaders have been assassinated. According to Zakharenko, who always tells the truth, they were killed by Ukrainians, even if SBU, that implies a lot of local support. (Surely they weren't killed by the FSB?).

    More seriously ethnic Russians were only 40% of the population and only half of them supported union with Russia in January 2013. Of course, 1.5 million Ukrainians have been driven out of the Donbass, original population 4 million by peace loving Russian nationalists, so the currently resident population is probably about 50/50. Still enough Ukrainians to lynch Moscow puppets when the fake regimes break down.

    …Moscow puppets when the fake regimes break down

    What if they don’t break down? Everybody in Ukraine is waiting for their enemies to collapse. They all describe the other side(s) as puppets, fake, impostors, Nazis, oligarchs, whatever. I think all sides in Ukraine are more or less legitimate – they represent their own interests, those interests are real. It is a mistake to dismiss one’s enemy as ‘fake’. It prevents understanding of what the conflict is all about, it prevents a necessary compromise.

    If you sit in Kiev and wait for the ‘fake’ separatists to disappear, you will wait for a long time. But same is true about the other side that believes that post-Maidan government will inevitably collapse. I don’t think this will get resolved by one or the other side suddenly vanishing, they also represent real interests, minority rights vs. sovereignty, EU travel vs. trade with Russia. It is only because the post-Maidan initial leaders were absolutely tone-deaf that the real interests of the other side were pushed aside, triggering a counter-reaction, and eventually the current mess. The way forward is to start seeing the enemies (all of them) as real, as having real interests that need to be taken into account.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Congratulations! This is the first sensible comment about Ukraine I’ve read in a long time.

    Ukraine of 1991 was an extremely heterogeneous country. It consisted of Ukraine proper (Malorossia, or Little Russia; the language of this region is considered the literary Ukrainian; constitutes about 1/5th of Ukraine), Slobozhanschina (Kharkov Region), Novorossia (territories Catherine the Great captured from Turkey; southern and eastern Ukraine), Western Ukraine with several distinct dialects, largely Volhynia and Galicia (originally with mixed Ukrainian and Polish population, before Bandera followers at the time of German occupation perpetrated Volhynia massacre, mass murder of Polish and mixed families, including women and children), Trans-Carpathian region (populated by Ukrainians, Rusines, Hungarians, and Romanians; these guys hate Western Ukrainian Nazis even more vehemently than Russians), and Crimea, added by Khruschev in 1954. In Crimea, Novorossia, and Slobozhanschina most of the people speak Russian, some an awful mix of Russian and Ukrainian.

    If Ukrainian leaders (all of them since 1991) cared about the country, rather than about lining their pockets, they would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them. However, they decided that primeval tribal nationalism and pushing Ukrainian language down people’s throats would be a good smokescreen for their thievery. Hence we have what we have.

    Personally, considering the state this would-be country is in, I don’t see any way to restore sanity, order, and minimal well-being sooner than in 30-50 years, unless a powerful and generous occupier takes over. Russian population is vehemently opposed to taking over Ukraine or helping it in any way, Europe was never generous. So I see no hope.
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  109. Wally says:
    @AnonFromTN
    None of those “pro-Polish” posters cared to explain why Churchill called Poland “the hyena of Europe”. That alone tells you everything you need to know about them and their “information”.

    I disagree that there is such a thing as a “dumb nation”. However, there are nations that consistently produce truly dumb leadership. Poland is one of those, it always took the wrong (losing) side. Poland invaded Russia (Polish-Russian wars 1605-1618) at the “time of troubles” (dynastic crisis in Russia), backing False Dimitry I. Poles even captured Moscow, but ended up eating each other inside besieged Kremlin. Next Poles joined Napoleon and again lost big. Then Poles angered Bolsheviks by starving to death thousands of Russian POWs and annexing large territories populated by Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians (including current Lithuanian capital Vilnius). Then Pilsudski tried to ally himself with Hitler, assuming (wrongly) that Germany would treat Poland as a serious power. Hitler even looked the other way when Poland snatched a piece of Czechoslovakia, dismembered and occupied by Hitler upon tentative go-ahead from the UK and France (Munich agreement of 1938). That ended with eventual occupation of Poland by Germany, with the USSR taking whatever parts it could claim, and later horrible Volhynia massacre of Poles, including women and children, by Bandera followers (the pictures are all over the internet – Ukrainian nationalists were too dumb to even be ashamed of their despicable crimes). In the end Stalin had to separate Poles and Ukrainians by moving the latter East and the former West. Then Poland joined NATO. If I wished NATO well, I’d advise it to expel Poland ASAP, simply for the sake of self-preservation.

    said:
    ” That ended with eventual occupation of Poland by Germany, with the USSR taking whatever parts it could claim …”

    The USSR invaded & seized 60% of Poland, not “whatever parts it could claim …”

    BTW:
    The USSR invaded Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, invaded & annexed parts of Romania, invaded Iran, invaded northern Norway and the Danish island of Bornholm, yet the ‘Allies’ did nothing.

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Writing in newspeak, are we? Or maybe writing from a different planet? Here on Earth in 1939 USSR took about 1/3 of Poland of that time, mostly territories populated by Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians that Poland snatched during the civil war in Russia.

    Also, it is useful to remember that Finland, Latvia, and Estonia never existed as countries before the Russian revolution: they belonged to Sweden, which sold them to Peter the Great after he pulverized Swedish and allied forces in the battle near Poltava. FYI: here on Earth Poltava is in Ukraine, in the Ukraine that asked to join Russia under Bohdan Khmelnitsky (which constituted about 1/5th of current Ukraine, expanded by tsars, Lenin, Stalin, and Khruschev) and was accepted after five years of deliberations by tsar and then people’s representatives. Lithuania was a country before it united (“voluntarily”) with Poland, but Poland, among other things, snatched most of Lithuania after 1917, including current Lithuanian capital Vilnius. USSR also took Moldova, which never was part of Romania before 1917, but was a part of the Russian Empire.

    As for invading Iran, you mixed up centuries. Russia invaded Northern Iran a few centuries earlier and annexed territory that is now Azerbaijan (about half of Azeris still live in Iran). To the best of my knowledge Azerbaijan did not show any sign of willing to rejoin Iran, even though Azeris are shiites.

    Also, here on Earth Latvians and Estonians were mostly village dwellers, all their cities were built and populated by Germans, Jews, and Poles. During WWII Latvians organized two Waffen SS divisions (15th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Latvian), and the 19th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Latvian)), and Estonian volunteers also fought for Hitler in 3rd Estonian SS Volunteer Brigade and 20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian). What’s more, Latvians and Estonians actively helped Germans to exterminate Jews and Poles on their territory (there were none left alive when the Soviet Army came in 1944).

    The rest of the info from your planet has about as much in common with Earth as those pieces.
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  110. @Wally
    said:
    " That ended with eventual occupation of Poland by Germany, with the USSR taking whatever parts it could claim ..."

    The USSR invaded & seized 60% of Poland, not "whatever parts it could claim ..."

    BTW:
    The USSR invaded Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, invaded & annexed parts of Romania, invaded Iran, invaded northern Norway and the Danish island of Bornholm, yet the ‘Allies’ did nothing.

    www.codoh.com

    Writing in newspeak, are we? Or maybe writing from a different planet? Here on Earth in 1939 USSR took about 1/3 of Poland of that time, mostly territories populated by Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians that Poland snatched during the civil war in Russia.

    Also, it is useful to remember that Finland, Latvia, and Estonia never existed as countries before the Russian revolution: they belonged to Sweden, which sold them to Peter the Great after he pulverized Swedish and allied forces in the battle near Poltava. FYI: here on Earth Poltava is in Ukraine, in the Ukraine that asked to join Russia under Bohdan Khmelnitsky (which constituted about 1/5th of current Ukraine, expanded by tsars, Lenin, Stalin, and Khruschev) and was accepted after five years of deliberations by tsar and then people’s representatives. Lithuania was a country before it united (“voluntarily”) with Poland, but Poland, among other things, snatched most of Lithuania after 1917, including current Lithuanian capital Vilnius. USSR also took Moldova, which never was part of Romania before 1917, but was a part of the Russian Empire.

    As for invading Iran, you mixed up centuries. Russia invaded Northern Iran a few centuries earlier and annexed territory that is now Azerbaijan (about half of Azeris still live in Iran). To the best of my knowledge Azerbaijan did not show any sign of willing to rejoin Iran, even though Azeris are shiites.

    Also, here on Earth Latvians and Estonians were mostly village dwellers, all their cities were built and populated by Germans, Jews, and Poles. During WWII Latvians organized two Waffen SS divisions (15th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Latvian), and the 19th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Latvian)), and Estonian volunteers also fought for Hitler in 3rd Estonian SS Volunteer Brigade and 20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian). What’s more, Latvians and Estonians actively helped Germans to exterminate Jews and Poles on their territory (there were none left alive when the Soviet Army came in 1944).

    The rest of the info from your planet has about as much in common with Earth as those pieces.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {Azerbaijan (about half of Azeris still live in Iran). To the best of my knowledge Azerbaijan did not show any sign of willing to rejoin Iran, even though Azeris are shiites.}

    The present country of Azerbaijan is an artificial creation: it has existed for a little over 100 years.
    The territory presently occupied by this artificial state is the homeland of the indigenous peoples who lived there for millenia: Talysh, Lezgins, Tats, Avars,......

    The indigenous peoples are oppressed by the Turkic overlords who invaded those lands from East and Central Asia.

    The fake country of 'Azerbaijan' was created by British imperialists and Bolsheviks.
    The name 'Azerbaijan' was specifically chosen to create a linkage with Northern territories of Iran, and thus claim it as part of 'Azerbaijan' in the future......which present government of Azerbaijan does. The word 'Azerbaijan' is a mild corruption of the names of the two northern provinces of Iran: West and East Azarbaijan.

    As to the mythical ethnos 'Azeri': again, it is a fake creation. There is no such ethnos.
    The Turks who invaded and settled the area near the Caspian sea were known as 'Tatars' or simply 'Muslims'. Sometime in the 30s, Stalin & Co stared using the word 'Azeri', again to artificially create a future claim to Iran's northern territories.

    The people of Northern Iran are Turkish speaking ethnic Iranians/Persians: they are not Turks.
    Aliyev clan themselves are Turkified ethnic Kurds.

    As territories north of the Arax river: yeah, at one point they were part of the Persian Empire, meaning they did not actually belong to Persia proper. (Armenia was also part of the Persian Empire at one time). Then the Russian Empire expanded southward and pushed Persian Empire out.
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  111. @Beckow

    ...Moscow puppets when the fake regimes break down
     
    What if they don't break down? Everybody in Ukraine is waiting for their enemies to collapse. They all describe the other side(s) as puppets, fake, impostors, Nazis, oligarchs, whatever. I think all sides in Ukraine are more or less legitimate - they represent their own interests, those interests are real. It is a mistake to dismiss one's enemy as 'fake'. It prevents understanding of what the conflict is all about, it prevents a necessary compromise.

    If you sit in Kiev and wait for the 'fake' separatists to disappear, you will wait for a long time. But same is true about the other side that believes that post-Maidan government will inevitably collapse. I don't think this will get resolved by one or the other side suddenly vanishing, they also represent real interests, minority rights vs. sovereignty, EU travel vs. trade with Russia. It is only because the post-Maidan initial leaders were absolutely tone-deaf that the real interests of the other side were pushed aside, triggering a counter-reaction, and eventually the current mess. The way forward is to start seeing the enemies (all of them) as real, as having real interests that need to be taken into account.

    Congratulations! This is the first sensible comment about Ukraine I’ve read in a long time.

    Ukraine of 1991 was an extremely heterogeneous country. It consisted of Ukraine proper (Malorossia, or Little Russia; the language of this region is considered the literary Ukrainian; constitutes about 1/5th of Ukraine), Slobozhanschina (Kharkov Region), Novorossia (territories Catherine the Great captured from Turkey; southern and eastern Ukraine), Western Ukraine with several distinct dialects, largely Volhynia and Galicia (originally with mixed Ukrainian and Polish population, before Bandera followers at the time of German occupation perpetrated Volhynia massacre, mass murder of Polish and mixed families, including women and children), Trans-Carpathian region (populated by Ukrainians, Rusines, Hungarians, and Romanians; these guys hate Western Ukrainian Nazis even more vehemently than Russians), and Crimea, added by Khruschev in 1954. In Crimea, Novorossia, and Slobozhanschina most of the people speak Russian, some an awful mix of Russian and Ukrainian.

    If Ukrainian leaders (all of them since 1991) cared about the country, rather than about lining their pockets, they would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them. However, they decided that primeval tribal nationalism and pushing Ukrainian language down people’s throats would be a good smokescreen for their thievery. Hence we have what we have.

    Personally, considering the state this would-be country is in, I don’t see any way to restore sanity, order, and minimal well-being sooner than in 30-50 years, unless a powerful and generous occupier takes over. Russian population is vehemently opposed to taking over Ukraine or helping it in any way, Europe was never generous. So I see no hope.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them
     
    That's the key to having a country, especially if one's country - like Ukraine - is very heterogeneous. (As we see in most Western countries, once they have lost their homogeneity, the elites adopted the same unifying policies - the problem is who and how are getting unified.)

    I hope it doesn't take 3o-50 years, but it could. Nobody will take over, nobody will pay for it, the built-in fissures will not disappear. Ukrainians either find a way to compromise on key issues like trade, language, geo-political orientation, or Ukraine will be a miserable place, possibly break up, or be taken over by a 'secular' strongman to keep it together.
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  112. Avery says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Writing in newspeak, are we? Or maybe writing from a different planet? Here on Earth in 1939 USSR took about 1/3 of Poland of that time, mostly territories populated by Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians that Poland snatched during the civil war in Russia.

    Also, it is useful to remember that Finland, Latvia, and Estonia never existed as countries before the Russian revolution: they belonged to Sweden, which sold them to Peter the Great after he pulverized Swedish and allied forces in the battle near Poltava. FYI: here on Earth Poltava is in Ukraine, in the Ukraine that asked to join Russia under Bohdan Khmelnitsky (which constituted about 1/5th of current Ukraine, expanded by tsars, Lenin, Stalin, and Khruschev) and was accepted after five years of deliberations by tsar and then people’s representatives. Lithuania was a country before it united (“voluntarily”) with Poland, but Poland, among other things, snatched most of Lithuania after 1917, including current Lithuanian capital Vilnius. USSR also took Moldova, which never was part of Romania before 1917, but was a part of the Russian Empire.

    As for invading Iran, you mixed up centuries. Russia invaded Northern Iran a few centuries earlier and annexed territory that is now Azerbaijan (about half of Azeris still live in Iran). To the best of my knowledge Azerbaijan did not show any sign of willing to rejoin Iran, even though Azeris are shiites.

    Also, here on Earth Latvians and Estonians were mostly village dwellers, all their cities were built and populated by Germans, Jews, and Poles. During WWII Latvians organized two Waffen SS divisions (15th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Latvian), and the 19th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Latvian)), and Estonian volunteers also fought for Hitler in 3rd Estonian SS Volunteer Brigade and 20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian). What’s more, Latvians and Estonians actively helped Germans to exterminate Jews and Poles on their territory (there were none left alive when the Soviet Army came in 1944).

    The rest of the info from your planet has about as much in common with Earth as those pieces.

    {Azerbaijan (about half of Azeris still live in Iran). To the best of my knowledge Azerbaijan did not show any sign of willing to rejoin Iran, even though Azeris are shiites.}

    The present country of Azerbaijan is an artificial creation: it has existed for a little over 100 years.
    The territory presently occupied by this artificial state is the homeland of the indigenous peoples who lived there for millenia: Talysh, Lezgins, Tats, Avars,……

    The indigenous peoples are oppressed by the Turkic overlords who invaded those lands from East and Central Asia.

    The fake country of ‘Azerbaijan’ was created by British imperialists and Bolsheviks.
    The name ‘Azerbaijan’ was specifically chosen to create a linkage with Northern territories of Iran, and thus claim it as part of ‘Azerbaijan’ in the future……which present government of Azerbaijan does. The word ‘Azerbaijan’ is a mild corruption of the names of the two northern provinces of Iran: West and East Azarbaijan.

    As to the mythical ethnos ‘Azeri’: again, it is a fake creation. There is no such ethnos.
    The Turks who invaded and settled the area near the Caspian sea were known as ‘Tatars’ or simply ‘Muslims’. Sometime in the 30s, Stalin & Co stared using the word ‘Azeri’, again to artificially create a future claim to Iran’s northern territories.

    The people of Northern Iran are Turkish speaking ethnic Iranians/Persians: they are not Turks.
    Aliyev clan themselves are Turkified ethnic Kurds.

    As territories north of the Arax river: yeah, at one point they were part of the Persian Empire, meaning they did not actually belong to Persia proper. (Armenia was also part of the Persian Empire at one time). Then the Russian Empire expanded southward and pushed Persian Empire out.

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    • Replies: @VojkanM
    As a fact-based thinking guy, I am always unsettled by how much official "History" is based on the mythomania of the dominant group in a given place at a given time. I am unsettled because lies breed frustration and frustration breeds violence. Only truth heals and only truth brings peace and yet, people prefer lies.
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  113. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    It is unlikely that the EU will be any kind of partner for Russia. The EU is run by extreme leftwingers, and Russia is a traditionally white country. People forget that the EU played the biggest part in the uprising in Ukraine, not the US.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    What about famous phrase by Nuland “F… the EU!”? She did install the people she wanted in power, giving Klitschko that the EU preferred only the mayorship of Kiev as a consolation prize.
    , @annamaria
    How much had the EU contributed to the putsch of 2014? The US had squandered $5 billion in Ukraine on the thieves and ultra-nationalists and, of course, on the idiotic "NGOs" that were guided by such lights as the bloody senescent supremacist Carl Gershman, who has been the President of the National Endowment for Democracy [the CIA front org] "since its 1984 founding."
    https://consortiumnews.com/2018/03/08/the-national-endowment-for-meddling-in-democracy/
    "...the NED, as it nears the quarter-century mark, is a bundle of contradictions: a group that claims to be private even though it is almost entirely publicly funded, a group that says democracy “must be indigenous” even though it backs U.S.-imposed regime change, a group that claims to be “bipartisan” but whose board is packed with ideologically homogeneous hawks like Elliott Abrams, Anne Applebaum, and Victoria Nuland, the latter of whom served as assistant secretary of state during the coup in Ukraine."
    -- And which interests are the closest to the Carl Gershman heart? Let's guess: "In 1968, he worked in the research department of B'nai B'rith, and in 1972 he served on the Governing Council of the American Jewish Committee. ... In 1972 he and Irving Howe edited a collection, Israel, the Arabs and the Middle East." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gershman
    -- Who could know better about "democracy" than a Russophobic zionist?
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  114. @Anon
    It is unlikely that the EU will be any kind of partner for Russia. The EU is run by extreme leftwingers, and Russia is a traditionally white country. People forget that the EU played the biggest part in the uprising in Ukraine, not the US.

    What about famous phrase by Nuland “F… the EU!”? She did install the people she wanted in power, giving Klitschko that the EU preferred only the mayorship of Kiev as a consolation prize.

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  115. VojkanM says:

    Seriously? If I were Russian, I definitely wouldn’t look at the EU as a possible partner. Corrupt bureaucracy, clueless technocrats, arrogant fagots, fiat currency, actually the whole construction is an edifice of lies, who needs them? The only way to treat those guys is contempt. In the long term, if Russia is wise, she doesn’t need them.

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  116. VojkanM says:
    @Avery
    {Azerbaijan (about half of Azeris still live in Iran). To the best of my knowledge Azerbaijan did not show any sign of willing to rejoin Iran, even though Azeris are shiites.}

    The present country of Azerbaijan is an artificial creation: it has existed for a little over 100 years.
    The territory presently occupied by this artificial state is the homeland of the indigenous peoples who lived there for millenia: Talysh, Lezgins, Tats, Avars,......

    The indigenous peoples are oppressed by the Turkic overlords who invaded those lands from East and Central Asia.

    The fake country of 'Azerbaijan' was created by British imperialists and Bolsheviks.
    The name 'Azerbaijan' was specifically chosen to create a linkage with Northern territories of Iran, and thus claim it as part of 'Azerbaijan' in the future......which present government of Azerbaijan does. The word 'Azerbaijan' is a mild corruption of the names of the two northern provinces of Iran: West and East Azarbaijan.

    As to the mythical ethnos 'Azeri': again, it is a fake creation. There is no such ethnos.
    The Turks who invaded and settled the area near the Caspian sea were known as 'Tatars' or simply 'Muslims'. Sometime in the 30s, Stalin & Co stared using the word 'Azeri', again to artificially create a future claim to Iran's northern territories.

    The people of Northern Iran are Turkish speaking ethnic Iranians/Persians: they are not Turks.
    Aliyev clan themselves are Turkified ethnic Kurds.

    As territories north of the Arax river: yeah, at one point they were part of the Persian Empire, meaning they did not actually belong to Persia proper. (Armenia was also part of the Persian Empire at one time). Then the Russian Empire expanded southward and pushed Persian Empire out.

    As a fact-based thinking guy, I am always unsettled by how much official “History” is based on the mythomania of the dominant group in a given place at a given time. I am unsettled because lies breed frustration and frustration breeds violence. Only truth heals and only truth brings peace and yet, people prefer lies.

    Read More
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  117. VojkanM says:
    @Cyrano

    They felt that they were so close, when they bombed Beograd and Russia did nothing, they thought it was all just a question of time.
     
    Stalin once wrote an article “Dizzy with success”. The bombing of Beograd was the American “dizzy with success” moment. They thought that Russia is going to be cowed with that bombing. It was “look what we can do to your closest ally” scenario.

    Yeah, they really managed to frighten Russia, they scared them so much, that they brought Putin to power. Putin came to power directly as a result of the bombing of Serbia.

    Why Serbia had to be bombed? Because it’s the only Slavic nation that has never gone against Russia , and – you can call me a Nostradamus on this one – they never will. That’s why they had to be punished.

    Every time they try to intimidate Russia, they dig a deeper hole for themselves. Gruzia in 2008 and 2014 Ukraine didn’t bring them any closer to the success that they like to get dizzy over – capitulation of Russia. The reason why their bellowed capitalist project will collapse is the same one that caused the collapse of the USSR – inability to serve the needs of the people any longer.

    You’re close but not quite on. What links Serbia and Russia is a special brand of Orthodoxy, as exemplified by Dostoevsky, Berdaev, Solzhenytsin on the Russian side, Nikolaj Velimirović, Justin Popović on the Serbian side. All others are seen as convertible and can be melted into the NWO. Russians and Serbs can’t. It’s not that Russians and Serbs are without flaws. They just happen to be recalcitrant to the luciferian order.

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  118. @AnonFromTN
    Sorry to disappoint, but he is more intelligent than 99% of the people questioning his intelligence. Mind you, I am saying this as a person who often disagrees with the Saker.

    Sorry to disappoint, but he is more intelligent than 99% of the seven people who agree with him. Mind you, I am saying this as a person who often disagrees with the Saker.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Johnny yet again you carry the flag of the dumbest comment on an article: “99% of the 7 people who agree with him” can be calculated to 6.93 persons. You obviously never heard of indivisible items. Who of us seven Saker believers will suffer the horrible fate of having 0.07 of him cut off to satisfy your perverted lack of sense and mathematics?
    , @AnonFromTN
    Humor is a good thing. I always felt that there must be something wrong with people who take themselves too seriously.
    As to the Saker, in my case his pieces are always thought-provoking. I often disagree, but reading him forces me to formulate explicitly why I disagree and what I really think (and assume – history is not a precise science, any opinion is based on certain assumptions, groundless from the standpoint of those who hold opposing views). His views are sometimes naïve: he often assumes that Russia is (or must be) a force for good, whereas in reality Russia is a force for Russia. It just so happens that any force opposing the Empire today is a force for good to some extent, as the Empire degenerated into a force for pure evil.
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  119. Kiza says:
    @Johnny Rico
    Sorry to disappoint, but he is more intelligent than 99% of the seven people who agree with him. Mind you, I am saying this as a person who often disagrees with the Saker.

    Johnny yet again you carry the flag of the dumbest comment on an article: “99% of the 7 people who agree with him” can be calculated to 6.93 persons. You obviously never heard of indivisible items. Who of us seven Saker believers will suffer the horrible fate of having 0.07 of him cut off to satisfy your perverted lack of sense and mathematics?

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    • Replies: @VojkanM
    Brother, I hate to say it but you've just proven Johnny's point. Sit and think about what he meant with his bad math and how he hooked you.
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  120. VojkanM says:
    @Pirelli
    Does anyone think The Saker is intelligent?

    Does anyone think his articles are worth reading and discussing? Judging from the comments section, the answer seems to be yes. And I really don’t care to know his IQ.

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  121. VojkanM says:
    @Kiza
    Johnny yet again you carry the flag of the dumbest comment on an article: “99% of the 7 people who agree with him” can be calculated to 6.93 persons. You obviously never heard of indivisible items. Who of us seven Saker believers will suffer the horrible fate of having 0.07 of him cut off to satisfy your perverted lack of sense and mathematics?

    Brother, I hate to say it but you’ve just proven Johnny’s point. Sit and think about what he meant with his bad math and how he hooked you.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Great that you joined him, he felt so alone in his dumbness. Now there are at least two. Since people like you started trolling unz, I have gone to a moderated zine where dumbos like you get kicked out.

    PS. I am definitely not your brother and the first and the last time you and I discussed a point, I let your lack of knowledge combined with persistence slide.

    Over and out,

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  122. Kiza says:
    @VojkanM
    Brother, I hate to say it but you've just proven Johnny's point. Sit and think about what he meant with his bad math and how he hooked you.

    Great that you joined him, he felt so alone in his dumbness. Now there are at least two. Since people like you started trolling unz, I have gone to a moderated zine where dumbos like you get kicked out.

    PS. I am definitely not your brother and the first and the last time you and I discussed a point, I let your lack of knowledge combined with persistence slide.

    Over and out,

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    • Replies: @VojkanM
    True, we are not brothers. Kiza is Zoran in Serbia. It misled me. Though you sound like a half intelligent Serb. There are plenty of those. I've had to deal with plenty of halfwits like you. The problem is you are dumb and then trolls like Johnny Rico say look how dumb they are and he's right. Kiza is Slav. I very much doubt you are Russian. Russians are clever. Yugoslav communists aka Serbs are stupid. You are stupid. Therefore you are, that's math, of the linear algebra kind, not your imbecile calculus.
    , @VojkanM
    On the other hand, I understand that communist punks like you hate me, my advice to the late prince Alexander, son of the regent Paul, to officially support Koštunica against Milošević, brought the few thousand voices needed to end communism in Serbia. I realise though, after two years in Serbia, that idiots still rule there.
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  123. VojkanM says:
    @Philip Owen
    There is no guerilla resistance to Ukraine in the third of the area captured by Russian insurgents. On the other hand, the majority of insurgent leaders have been assassinated. According to Zakharenko, who always tells the truth, they were killed by Ukrainians, even if SBU, that implies a lot of local support. (Surely they weren't killed by the FSB?).

    More seriously ethnic Russians were only 40% of the population and only half of them supported union with Russia in January 2013. Of course, 1.5 million Ukrainians have been driven out of the Donbass, original population 4 million by peace loving Russian nationalists, so the currently resident population is probably about 50/50. Still enough Ukrainians to lynch Moscow puppets when the fake regimes break down.

    I wonder:
    a) you are dumb, God bless the innocent
    b) you are a mythomaniac, God be merciful upon the fools
    c) you’re an a**hole, God, …ahem, God You do as it suits You…

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Please take into account that some posters here simply earn their meager buck as trolls. Just imagine that you have to troll for the State Department, or worse yet, for current Ukrainian government. You’d sound like your IQ is smaller than your shoe size. But if you have no brains to speak of and no professional qualifications, trolling is one of very few ways you can earn some money (an alternative is flipping burgers at McDonalds, but there you have fixed hours, so anyone who is lazy while being dumb chooses the troll job).
    , @Philip Owen
    on the other hand, I actually have a business in Russia and have been doing business there since 1994 so i might know something.
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  124. @Johnny Rico
    Sorry to disappoint, but he is more intelligent than 99% of the seven people who agree with him. Mind you, I am saying this as a person who often disagrees with the Saker.

    Humor is a good thing. I always felt that there must be something wrong with people who take themselves too seriously.
    As to the Saker, in my case his pieces are always thought-provoking. I often disagree, but reading him forces me to formulate explicitly why I disagree and what I really think (and assume – history is not a precise science, any opinion is based on certain assumptions, groundless from the standpoint of those who hold opposing views). His views are sometimes naïve: he often assumes that Russia is (or must be) a force for good, whereas in reality Russia is a force for Russia. It just so happens that any force opposing the Empire today is a force for good to some extent, as the Empire degenerated into a force for pure evil.

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    • Replies: @VojkanM
    It's a bizarre feeling, I find myself thinking like some American guy from Tennessee (I never know if it takes one or two 'n's). I guess I'm deplorable, though if I had been American, I would have voted for Johnson not Trump, I never vote "useful", I vote for what's closest to my beliefs.
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  125. Sean says:

    Russia and China are having tremendous success building the multi-polar world they want to replace the Empire with.

    Once China has become the worlds most powerful state I suspect it will cease to behave multilaterally.

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  126. @VojkanM
    I wonder:
    a) you are dumb, God bless the innocent
    b) you are a mythomaniac, God be merciful upon the fools
    c) you're an a**hole, God, ...ahem, God You do as it suits You...

    Please take into account that some posters here simply earn their meager buck as trolls. Just imagine that you have to troll for the State Department, or worse yet, for current Ukrainian government. You’d sound like your IQ is smaller than your shoe size. But if you have no brains to speak of and no professional qualifications, trolling is one of very few ways you can earn some money (an alternative is flipping burgers at McDonalds, but there you have fixed hours, so anyone who is lazy while being dumb chooses the troll job).

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    • Replies: @VojkanM
    Fiat money pays fiat commenters. I'd say we live in a matrix but I fell asleep after ten minutes when I tried to watch that film so I'm not sure my comment would be pertinent.
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  127. VojkanM says:
    @Kiza
    Great that you joined him, he felt so alone in his dumbness. Now there are at least two. Since people like you started trolling unz, I have gone to a moderated zine where dumbos like you get kicked out.

    PS. I am definitely not your brother and the first and the last time you and I discussed a point, I let your lack of knowledge combined with persistence slide.

    Over and out,

    True, we are not brothers. Kiza is Zoran in Serbia. It misled me. Though you sound like a half intelligent Serb. There are plenty of those. I’ve had to deal with plenty of halfwits like you. The problem is you are dumb and then trolls like Johnny Rico say look how dumb they are and he’s right. Kiza is Slav. I very much doubt you are Russian. Russians are clever. Yugoslav communists aka Serbs are stupid. You are stupid. Therefore you are, that’s math, of the linear algebra kind, not your imbecile calculus.

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    • Replies: @Cyrano
    Don't put Kiza and Johnny Rico in the same category. Johnny Rico is a certified moron. I would say, so are you. Kiza is smarter than both of you combined. Get lost, you idiot.
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  128. VojkanM says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Please take into account that some posters here simply earn their meager buck as trolls. Just imagine that you have to troll for the State Department, or worse yet, for current Ukrainian government. You’d sound like your IQ is smaller than your shoe size. But if you have no brains to speak of and no professional qualifications, trolling is one of very few ways you can earn some money (an alternative is flipping burgers at McDonalds, but there you have fixed hours, so anyone who is lazy while being dumb chooses the troll job).

    Fiat money pays fiat commenters. I’d say we live in a matrix but I fell asleep after ten minutes when I tried to watch that film so I’m not sure my comment would be pertinent.

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  129. Cyrano says:
    @VojkanM
    True, we are not brothers. Kiza is Zoran in Serbia. It misled me. Though you sound like a half intelligent Serb. There are plenty of those. I've had to deal with plenty of halfwits like you. The problem is you are dumb and then trolls like Johnny Rico say look how dumb they are and he's right. Kiza is Slav. I very much doubt you are Russian. Russians are clever. Yugoslav communists aka Serbs are stupid. You are stupid. Therefore you are, that's math, of the linear algebra kind, not your imbecile calculus.

    Don’t put Kiza and Johnny Rico in the same category. Johnny Rico is a certified moron. I would say, so are you. Kiza is smarter than both of you combined. Get lost, you idiot.

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    • Replies: @VojkanM
    Come on. Let's examine results. Where have morons like you brought Serbia? You're stupid and you're irritating because you definitely believe that you're the absolute incarnation of smartness. Truth is you're the incarnation of idiocy and that's why Serbia is where she is. It's nobody else's fault. It's your bloody damn fault.
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  130. VojkanM says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Humor is a good thing. I always felt that there must be something wrong with people who take themselves too seriously.
    As to the Saker, in my case his pieces are always thought-provoking. I often disagree, but reading him forces me to formulate explicitly why I disagree and what I really think (and assume – history is not a precise science, any opinion is based on certain assumptions, groundless from the standpoint of those who hold opposing views). His views are sometimes naïve: he often assumes that Russia is (or must be) a force for good, whereas in reality Russia is a force for Russia. It just so happens that any force opposing the Empire today is a force for good to some extent, as the Empire degenerated into a force for pure evil.

    It’s a bizarre feeling, I find myself thinking like some American guy from Tennessee (I never know if it takes one or two ‘n’s). I guess I’m deplorable, though if I had been American, I would have voted for Johnson not Trump, I never vote “useful”, I vote for what’s closest to my beliefs.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Well, American guys from Tennessee (it’s two “n”) can’t find anything on a map, even Tennessee. I just live here, I was not born here. So, I can find even Gambia and Zambia, and would never say “Nambia”.
    Voting in the US is not like voting in a democratic country. The choosing is done before general election, in primaries, which tend to be rigged (Clinton vs Sanders is a recent example). So, by the time you vote, you get a choice between shit and even bigger shit. You are totally free to decide which shit is bigger – Deep State wins either way. Besides, in the US presidential elections (always supposing they mean anything) what is counted is not the votes, but states: whoever wins in your state gets all its electoral votes (except for some microscopic totally inconsequential states in the NE). So, in TN there is no incentive to vote: if the Republican party nominates a horse, good God-fearing church-going people of TN would vote for a horse. I did not vote last time – what’s the point? However, from my perspective, even Trump is better than that corrupt to the core warmongering mad witch. The other candidates are there for the ride, with zero chances of winning. If that’s democracy, I am the Emperor of the East.
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  131. annamaria says:
    @Anon
    It is unlikely that the EU will be any kind of partner for Russia. The EU is run by extreme leftwingers, and Russia is a traditionally white country. People forget that the EU played the biggest part in the uprising in Ukraine, not the US.

    How much had the EU contributed to the putsch of 2014? The US had squandered $5 billion in Ukraine on the thieves and ultra-nationalists and, of course, on the idiotic “NGOs” that were guided by such lights as the bloody senescent supremacist Carl Gershman, who has been the President of the National Endowment for Democracy [the CIA front org] “since its 1984 founding.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2018/03/08/the-national-endowment-for-meddling-in-democracy/

    “…the NED, as it nears the quarter-century mark, is a bundle of contradictions: a group that claims to be private even though it is almost entirely publicly funded, a group that says democracy “must be indigenous” even though it backs U.S.-imposed regime change, a group that claims to be “bipartisan” but whose board is packed with ideologically homogeneous hawks like Elliott Abrams, Anne Applebaum, and Victoria Nuland, the latter of whom served as assistant secretary of state during the coup in Ukraine.”
    – And which interests are the closest to the Carl Gershman heart? Let’s guess: “In 1968, he worked in the research department of B’nai B’rith, and in 1972 he served on the Governing Council of the American Jewish Committee. … In 1972 he and Irving Howe edited a collection, Israel, the Arabs and the Middle East.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gershman
    – Who could know better about “democracy” than a Russophobic zionist?

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  132. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Congratulations! This is the first sensible comment about Ukraine I’ve read in a long time.

    Ukraine of 1991 was an extremely heterogeneous country. It consisted of Ukraine proper (Malorossia, or Little Russia; the language of this region is considered the literary Ukrainian; constitutes about 1/5th of Ukraine), Slobozhanschina (Kharkov Region), Novorossia (territories Catherine the Great captured from Turkey; southern and eastern Ukraine), Western Ukraine with several distinct dialects, largely Volhynia and Galicia (originally with mixed Ukrainian and Polish population, before Bandera followers at the time of German occupation perpetrated Volhynia massacre, mass murder of Polish and mixed families, including women and children), Trans-Carpathian region (populated by Ukrainians, Rusines, Hungarians, and Romanians; these guys hate Western Ukrainian Nazis even more vehemently than Russians), and Crimea, added by Khruschev in 1954. In Crimea, Novorossia, and Slobozhanschina most of the people speak Russian, some an awful mix of Russian and Ukrainian.

    If Ukrainian leaders (all of them since 1991) cared about the country, rather than about lining their pockets, they would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them. However, they decided that primeval tribal nationalism and pushing Ukrainian language down people’s throats would be a good smokescreen for their thievery. Hence we have what we have.

    Personally, considering the state this would-be country is in, I don’t see any way to restore sanity, order, and minimal well-being sooner than in 30-50 years, unless a powerful and generous occupier takes over. Russian population is vehemently opposed to taking over Ukraine or helping it in any way, Europe was never generous. So I see no hope.

    would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them

    That’s the key to having a country, especially if one’s country – like Ukraine – is very heterogeneous. (As we see in most Western countries, once they have lost their homogeneity, the elites adopted the same unifying policies – the problem is who and how are getting unified.)

    I hope it doesn’t take 3o-50 years, but it could. Nobody will take over, nobody will pay for it, the built-in fissures will not disappear. Ukrainians either find a way to compromise on key issues like trade, language, geo-political orientation, or Ukraine will be a miserable place, possibly break up, or be taken over by a ‘secular’ strongman to keep it together.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Ukraine residents are running away from that God-forsaken place in all directions. There are a few million in Russia, a few million in Poland, and likely another few million in the rest of the EU. In 1991 Ukraine had 52 million residents. The authorities are afraid to conduct a census, as it will reveal very depressing reality. Latest estimates suggest that there are currently 22-24 million residents. Polls show that more than half able-bodied ones wish to get out and never come back. I was born in Ukraine, so I understand them very well. I am not sure that the country can be saved at this point.

    Rostislav Ischenko, who worked for the Ukrainian government and ran away to Russia after the coup in 2014, said that anyone who is good for anything and has a chance to compete considers himself Russian and competes in Russia. The ones good for nothing count themselves as Ukrainians and are proud to be the biggest frog in a pathetically small puddle. He should know, he was there 1991-2014.
    , @Avery
    {... or Ukraine will be a miserable place, possibly break up,...}

    Wouldn't a Ukraine that breaks up between West and East settle things down?
    Don't know much detail about Ukraine, but isn't it basically a patched up country?
    It seems that Western Ukrainians have always had bad feelings towards East Ukrainians, presumably mostly ethic Russians?

    Sometimes counties held together artificially are better off broken up.
    Some break up violently, like Yugoslavia.
    Some break peacefully, like Czechoslovakia.
    But it sees after the breakup, things settle down.
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  133. VojkanM says:
    @Kiza
    Great that you joined him, he felt so alone in his dumbness. Now there are at least two. Since people like you started trolling unz, I have gone to a moderated zine where dumbos like you get kicked out.

    PS. I am definitely not your brother and the first and the last time you and I discussed a point, I let your lack of knowledge combined with persistence slide.

    Over and out,

    On the other hand, I understand that communist punks like you hate me, my advice to the late prince Alexander, son of the regent Paul, to officially support Koštunica against Milošević, brought the few thousand voices needed to end communism in Serbia. I realise though, after two years in Serbia, that idiots still rule there.

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  134. VojkanM says:
    @Cyrano
    Don't put Kiza and Johnny Rico in the same category. Johnny Rico is a certified moron. I would say, so are you. Kiza is smarter than both of you combined. Get lost, you idiot.

    Come on. Let’s examine results. Where have morons like you brought Serbia? You’re stupid and you’re irritating because you definitely believe that you’re the absolute incarnation of smartness. Truth is you’re the incarnation of idiocy and that’s why Serbia is where she is. It’s nobody else’s fault. It’s your bloody damn fault.

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    • Replies: @Cyrano
    I think we’re going to get along just fine. You speak the same language as me – Balkanese language – full of courteous and complimentary phrases. I am not a Serb, but thanks for the compliment, I don’t get offended if somebody calls me a Serb – unless he really implies that I am one.
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  135. VojkanM says:

    A precision. I wrote to Putin urging him to save Syria because there is evil that can’t be tolerated, those are my words not Putin’s, I’ll never write to Putin to save Serbia because Serbs don’t deserve to be saved.

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  136. @VojkanM
    It's a bizarre feeling, I find myself thinking like some American guy from Tennessee (I never know if it takes one or two 'n's). I guess I'm deplorable, though if I had been American, I would have voted for Johnson not Trump, I never vote "useful", I vote for what's closest to my beliefs.

    Well, American guys from Tennessee (it’s two “n”) can’t find anything on a map, even Tennessee. I just live here, I was not born here. So, I can find even Gambia and Zambia, and would never say “Nambia”.
    Voting in the US is not like voting in a democratic country. The choosing is done before general election, in primaries, which tend to be rigged (Clinton vs Sanders is a recent example). So, by the time you vote, you get a choice between shit and even bigger shit. You are totally free to decide which shit is bigger – Deep State wins either way. Besides, in the US presidential elections (always supposing they mean anything) what is counted is not the votes, but states: whoever wins in your state gets all its electoral votes (except for some microscopic totally inconsequential states in the NE). So, in TN there is no incentive to vote: if the Republican party nominates a horse, good God-fearing church-going people of TN would vote for a horse. I did not vote last time – what’s the point? However, from my perspective, even Trump is better than that corrupt to the core warmongering mad witch. The other candidates are there for the ride, with zero chances of winning. If that’s democracy, I am the Emperor of the East.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vojkan
    If it's any comfourt, French "democracy" is no better. If it were a non-entity with mommy issues like Macron wouldn't have been elected. I don't expect of people to know geography or math or physics or c++ as I know them, I expect of people to not support bombing to smithereens weddings and funerals of people they don't know from Adam. The sad thing is that given the chance, my fellow Serbs would be no better than my fellow French or your neighbours in Tennessee.
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  137. @Beckow

    would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them
     
    That's the key to having a country, especially if one's country - like Ukraine - is very heterogeneous. (As we see in most Western countries, once they have lost their homogeneity, the elites adopted the same unifying policies - the problem is who and how are getting unified.)

    I hope it doesn't take 3o-50 years, but it could. Nobody will take over, nobody will pay for it, the built-in fissures will not disappear. Ukrainians either find a way to compromise on key issues like trade, language, geo-political orientation, or Ukraine will be a miserable place, possibly break up, or be taken over by a 'secular' strongman to keep it together.

    Ukraine residents are running away from that God-forsaken place in all directions. There are a few million in Russia, a few million in Poland, and likely another few million in the rest of the EU. In 1991 Ukraine had 52 million residents. The authorities are afraid to conduct a census, as it will reveal very depressing reality. Latest estimates suggest that there are currently 22-24 million residents. Polls show that more than half able-bodied ones wish to get out and never come back. I was born in Ukraine, so I understand them very well. I am not sure that the country can be saved at this point.

    Rostislav Ischenko, who worked for the Ukrainian government and ran away to Russia after the coup in 2014, said that anyone who is good for anything and has a chance to compete considers himself Russian and competes in Russia. The ones good for nothing count themselves as Ukrainians and are proud to be the biggest frog in a pathetically small puddle. He should know, he was there 1991-2014.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    Ukraine was already down to 45 million before Maidan. With Crimea-Donbas that is at least another 5 million. And I agree that in addition millions left for Russia, Poland, etc... The cleaning ladies in Prague hotels are today almost exclusively educated Ukrainian women (some very well educated). Budapest has tens of thousands too. So does Turkey.

    One issue with Ukrainian migrants is that they often go back, and then come again - hard to count. My estimate is that around 35 million are left, with about 10% of them who leave temporarily. But it can on indefinitely, there is no reason why Ukraine with even 20 million couldn't go on.
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  138. Avery says:
    @Beckow

    would have promoted things that unite people, not those that divide them
     
    That's the key to having a country, especially if one's country - like Ukraine - is very heterogeneous. (As we see in most Western countries, once they have lost their homogeneity, the elites adopted the same unifying policies - the problem is who and how are getting unified.)

    I hope it doesn't take 3o-50 years, but it could. Nobody will take over, nobody will pay for it, the built-in fissures will not disappear. Ukrainians either find a way to compromise on key issues like trade, language, geo-political orientation, or Ukraine will be a miserable place, possibly break up, or be taken over by a 'secular' strongman to keep it together.

    {… or Ukraine will be a miserable place, possibly break up,…}

    Wouldn’t a Ukraine that breaks up between West and East settle things down?
    Don’t know much detail about Ukraine, but isn’t it basically a patched up country?
    It seems that Western Ukrainians have always had bad feelings towards East Ukrainians, presumably mostly ethic Russians?

    Sometimes counties held together artificially are better off broken up.
    Some break up violently, like Yugoslavia.
    Some break peacefully, like Czechoslovakia.
    But it sees after the breakup, things settle down.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Ukraine (even w/o Crimea, that will never return), consists of more than two parts (see my comment #111). So, if it breaks up, there are going to be quite a few pieces. Western Ukrainians would never agree to that, as their part is the least productive, the poorest and, you guessed it, the most nationalistic.
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  139. @Avery
    {... or Ukraine will be a miserable place, possibly break up,...}

    Wouldn't a Ukraine that breaks up between West and East settle things down?
    Don't know much detail about Ukraine, but isn't it basically a patched up country?
    It seems that Western Ukrainians have always had bad feelings towards East Ukrainians, presumably mostly ethic Russians?

    Sometimes counties held together artificially are better off broken up.
    Some break up violently, like Yugoslavia.
    Some break peacefully, like Czechoslovakia.
    But it sees after the breakup, things settle down.

    Ukraine (even w/o Crimea, that will never return), consists of more than two parts (see my comment #111). So, if it breaks up, there are going to be quite a few pieces. Western Ukrainians would never agree to that, as their part is the least productive, the poorest and, you guessed it, the most nationalistic.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    What you describe is exactly the reason why the proposed federalisation of Ukraine (obviously by far the best solution) is unacceptable to the Western Ukrainians. It is either war or federalisation, but for the reasons of economy, agronomy, history and current politics the war keeps winning. Perhaps when enough of the crazies die in clashes with the Russian protectors of Eastern Ukraine, the federalisation will finally happen or a dissolution into two/multiple countries as in the Balkans. For the same reasons and also some strategic reasons, US/NATO/EU need Eastern Ukraine and would not let it go either.
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  140. Vojkan says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Well, American guys from Tennessee (it’s two “n”) can’t find anything on a map, even Tennessee. I just live here, I was not born here. So, I can find even Gambia and Zambia, and would never say “Nambia”.
    Voting in the US is not like voting in a democratic country. The choosing is done before general election, in primaries, which tend to be rigged (Clinton vs Sanders is a recent example). So, by the time you vote, you get a choice between shit and even bigger shit. You are totally free to decide which shit is bigger – Deep State wins either way. Besides, in the US presidential elections (always supposing they mean anything) what is counted is not the votes, but states: whoever wins in your state gets all its electoral votes (except for some microscopic totally inconsequential states in the NE). So, in TN there is no incentive to vote: if the Republican party nominates a horse, good God-fearing church-going people of TN would vote for a horse. I did not vote last time – what’s the point? However, from my perspective, even Trump is better than that corrupt to the core warmongering mad witch. The other candidates are there for the ride, with zero chances of winning. If that’s democracy, I am the Emperor of the East.

    If it’s any comfourt, French “democracy” is no better. If it were a non-entity with mommy issues like Macron wouldn’t have been elected. I don’t expect of people to know geography or math or physics or c++ as I know them, I expect of people to not support bombing to smithereens weddings and funerals of people they don’t know from Adam. The sad thing is that given the chance, my fellow Serbs would be no better than my fellow French or your neighbours in Tennessee.

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  141. Cyrano says:
    @VojkanM
    Come on. Let's examine results. Where have morons like you brought Serbia? You're stupid and you're irritating because you definitely believe that you're the absolute incarnation of smartness. Truth is you're the incarnation of idiocy and that's why Serbia is where she is. It's nobody else's fault. It's your bloody damn fault.

    I think we’re going to get along just fine. You speak the same language as me – Balkanese language – full of courteous and complimentary phrases. I am not a Serb, but thanks for the compliment, I don’t get offended if somebody calls me a Serb – unless he really implies that I am one.

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    • Replies: @Vojkan
    Let's get to the beginning. I never insulted anyone until I was insulted. Kiza insulted me and you insulted me. As for your imaginary nationality, in spite of having supposedly half Montenegrin blood, I don't declare myself as belonging to imaginary nations. I don't sell my faith for a dinner. Suit yourself.
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  142. @AnonFromTN

    railway wheel tires
     
    Did you ever see railway wheels with tires? Are you writing from the XVIIIth century via a time machine? Just asking.

    Steel tires. You are being very American.

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    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Of course, I am a lot more American than British. I lived in the US for 27 years. Out of this time I was in the UK maybe 4 weeks total (London, Oxford, Edinburgh, and a few scientific meetings here and there, only where the organizers invited me to give talks).
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  143. Vojkan says:
    @Cyrano
    I think we’re going to get along just fine. You speak the same language as me – Balkanese language – full of courteous and complimentary phrases. I am not a Serb, but thanks for the compliment, I don’t get offended if somebody calls me a Serb – unless he really implies that I am one.

    Let’s get to the beginning. I never insulted anyone until I was insulted. Kiza insulted me and you insulted me. As for your imaginary nationality, in spite of having supposedly half Montenegrin blood, I don’t declare myself as belonging to imaginary nations. I don’t sell my faith for a dinner. Suit yourself.

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    • Replies: @Cyrano
    Don’t worry about it. My humor is not everybody’s cup of tea. I wasn’t implying that there is such a thing as Balkanese nation, I was referring merely to the fact that people from the Balkans tend to be hotheads. Just look at the way the conversation between Kiza, you and me went. Although, I don’t really blame Kiza. You call him a brother and insult him at the same time. What’s up with that? And then I decided to join the melee, like somebody asked me to.
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  144. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Ukraine residents are running away from that God-forsaken place in all directions. There are a few million in Russia, a few million in Poland, and likely another few million in the rest of the EU. In 1991 Ukraine had 52 million residents. The authorities are afraid to conduct a census, as it will reveal very depressing reality. Latest estimates suggest that there are currently 22-24 million residents. Polls show that more than half able-bodied ones wish to get out and never come back. I was born in Ukraine, so I understand them very well. I am not sure that the country can be saved at this point.

    Rostislav Ischenko, who worked for the Ukrainian government and ran away to Russia after the coup in 2014, said that anyone who is good for anything and has a chance to compete considers himself Russian and competes in Russia. The ones good for nothing count themselves as Ukrainians and are proud to be the biggest frog in a pathetically small puddle. He should know, he was there 1991-2014.

    Ukraine was already down to 45 million before Maidan. With Crimea-Donbas that is at least another 5 million. And I agree that in addition millions left for Russia, Poland, etc… The cleaning ladies in Prague hotels are today almost exclusively educated Ukrainian women (some very well educated). Budapest has tens of thousands too. So does Turkey.

    One issue with Ukrainian migrants is that they often go back, and then come again – hard to count. My estimate is that around 35 million are left, with about 10% of them who leave temporarily. But it can on indefinitely, there is no reason why Ukraine with even 20 million couldn’t go on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vojkan
    Looking from outside, the suicide of Ukraine is puzzling. If you consider Ukraine as a nation. Suicide it is. Ukraine a nation is not. Nations don't commit suicide. Now we have a problem, posed by a non-nation. You dont get a chunk of it because whatever chunk, the chunks left have Russians in them. You don't annex it, you'd have to deal with neo-nazi lunatics for years to come. You don't split it because that's exactly what the NATO punks hope for in order to install missiles as close as they can to Moscow. So what do you do?
    , @AnonFromTN
    Ukrainian stats are even more alarming than that. In fact, so alarming that even some members of Rada (their version of parliament) got worried. There were 54 births for 100 deaths in 2018. Every month ~100,000 residents leave the country for work elsewhere. Those are able-bodied people who in normal countries pay taxes. They project that unless the government does something, there would be no one to pay taxes in 10 years. Current “government” won’t do anything, as it doesn’t even govern itself, not to mention that it lost control of the regions.
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  145. Vojkan says:
    @Beckow
    Ukraine was already down to 45 million before Maidan. With Crimea-Donbas that is at least another 5 million. And I agree that in addition millions left for Russia, Poland, etc... The cleaning ladies in Prague hotels are today almost exclusively educated Ukrainian women (some very well educated). Budapest has tens of thousands too. So does Turkey.

    One issue with Ukrainian migrants is that they often go back, and then come again - hard to count. My estimate is that around 35 million are left, with about 10% of them who leave temporarily. But it can on indefinitely, there is no reason why Ukraine with even 20 million couldn't go on.

    Looking from outside, the suicide of Ukraine is puzzling. If you consider Ukraine as a nation. Suicide it is. Ukraine a nation is not. Nations don’t commit suicide. Now we have a problem, posed by a non-nation. You dont get a chunk of it because whatever chunk, the chunks left have Russians in them. You don’t annex it, you’d have to deal with neo-nazi lunatics for years to come. You don’t split it because that’s exactly what the NATO punks hope for in order to install missiles as close as they can to Moscow. So what do you do?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    The coup in 2014 (perpetrated by armed Nazis, inspired by the US, supported by the US and EU) converted a declining country into a hopeless basket case. I don’t see any solutions. The most likely scenario is that when the current morons create another Chernobyl on one of the Ukrainian nuclear power stations (all of which should have been either upgraded or shut down years ago, but weren’t), scared EU would pay Putin to take control of critical infrastructure. The US will gnash its teeth but do nothing: normal US policy is to leave a pile of shit and wait for someone else to clean up.

    I don’t think that even under those circumstances Russia would take over Ukraine, even if IMF and other creditors forgive all the debt current thieves ran up. Russian populace today despises Ukraine and does not want to touch it even with a 10-foot pole. They believe that Donbass earned the right to get Russian help and even acceptance, but don’t want to deal with Nazis and other retards in the rest of Ukraine. Europe won’t spend a penny on rescuing that dying country, neither would the US. So the only solution is: circle it with barbed wire as The Goblin Reservation (using Clifford Simak’s term). It could have been a country, but failed miserably.
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  146. @Beckow
    Ukraine was already down to 45 million before Maidan. With Crimea-Donbas that is at least another 5 million. And I agree that in addition millions left for Russia, Poland, etc... The cleaning ladies in Prague hotels are today almost exclusively educated Ukrainian women (some very well educated). Budapest has tens of thousands too. So does Turkey.

    One issue with Ukrainian migrants is that they often go back, and then come again - hard to count. My estimate is that around 35 million are left, with about 10% of them who leave temporarily. But it can on indefinitely, there is no reason why Ukraine with even 20 million couldn't go on.

    Ukrainian stats are even more alarming than that. In fact, so alarming that even some members of Rada (their version of parliament) got worried. There were 54 births for 100 deaths in 2018. Every month ~100,000 residents leave the country for work elsewhere. Those are able-bodied people who in normal countries pay taxes. They project that unless the government does something, there would be no one to pay taxes in 10 years. Current “government” won’t do anything, as it doesn’t even govern itself, not to mention that it lost control of the regions.

    Read More
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  147. @Vojkan
    Looking from outside, the suicide of Ukraine is puzzling. If you consider Ukraine as a nation. Suicide it is. Ukraine a nation is not. Nations don't commit suicide. Now we have a problem, posed by a non-nation. You dont get a chunk of it because whatever chunk, the chunks left have Russians in them. You don't annex it, you'd have to deal with neo-nazi lunatics for years to come. You don't split it because that's exactly what the NATO punks hope for in order to install missiles as close as they can to Moscow. So what do you do?

    The coup in 2014 (perpetrated by armed Nazis, inspired by the US, supported by the US and EU) converted a declining country into a hopeless basket case. I don’t see any solutions. The most likely scenario is that when the current morons create another Chernobyl on one of the Ukrainian nuclear power stations (all of which should have been either upgraded or shut down years ago, but weren’t), scared EU would pay Putin to take control of critical infrastructure. The US will gnash its teeth but do nothing: normal US policy is to leave a pile of shit and wait for someone else to clean up.

    I don’t think that even under those circumstances Russia would take over Ukraine, even if IMF and other creditors forgive all the debt current thieves ran up. Russian populace today despises Ukraine and does not want to touch it even with a 10-foot pole. They believe that Donbass earned the right to get Russian help and even acceptance, but don’t want to deal with Nazis and other retards in the rest of Ukraine. Europe won’t spend a penny on rescuing that dying country, neither would the US. So the only solution is: circle it with barbed wire as The Goblin Reservation (using Clifford Simak’s term). It could have been a country, but failed miserably.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    Ukraine does have resources. And fewer people left, more will be available to the remaining population. That's why I don't see a collapse. It will gradually get worse, and nobody will help, but there is land, there is food, there is housing, and for the impatient there is always Russia or Poland.

    We might get a larger, slightly richer Albania (or Kosovo). NATO bases to hire a few lucky people and spread some easy money around, consistent emigration, gangs dividing up what's left, and EU morons prancing around with endless plans on how to improve it. In other words a larger Albania. But it might go on and on. My guess would be that an eclectic strongman eventually takes over by promising to cut utility bills and adopting euro. This one is doozy, we haven't had wholly idiot-run and populated country for a few decades.

    (My cleaning lady has a PhD from Kiev, won't discuss politics, and dreams about a visa to move oversees.)

    , @Kiza
    Yes I still come here, now only sometimes, for still top quality articles and for the commenters such are Beckow, AnonFromTN and a few other (for example, Cyrano can be positively humorous sometimes). These are the people who one can learn something from and can have an informed and intelligent discussion with. My list of barred trolls has become long and I would suggest to Ron to create a mirror image of the feature - a list of people you want to pass instead of a list of people you want to bar. It would be shorter, as a reflection of how bad comments here have become. For example, Johnny Rico has been on my barred list for a long time, I do not know how his one intended humorous but turned out stupid comment got through.
    , @Vojkan
    I admit that I have always regarded Ukraine as an artificial creation. You don't call a country Ukraine, you call that a region of a country. There cannot be a nation called Ukraine, it's semantically impossible. So I don't know if it could have had continuity as a country. I think it would have definitely been better off as a part of Russia, Kharkov, Dniepropetrovsk, Odessa, most of all Kiev are historically Russian. You can't save people against their will though.
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  148. Cyrano says:
    @Vojkan
    Let's get to the beginning. I never insulted anyone until I was insulted. Kiza insulted me and you insulted me. As for your imaginary nationality, in spite of having supposedly half Montenegrin blood, I don't declare myself as belonging to imaginary nations. I don't sell my faith for a dinner. Suit yourself.

    Don’t worry about it. My humor is not everybody’s cup of tea. I wasn’t implying that there is such a thing as Balkanese nation, I was referring merely to the fact that people from the Balkans tend to be hotheads. Just look at the way the conversation between Kiza, you and me went. Although, I don’t really blame Kiza. You call him a brother and insult him at the same time. What’s up with that? And then I decided to join the melee, like somebody asked me to.

    Read More
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  149. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    The coup in 2014 (perpetrated by armed Nazis, inspired by the US, supported by the US and EU) converted a declining country into a hopeless basket case. I don’t see any solutions. The most likely scenario is that when the current morons create another Chernobyl on one of the Ukrainian nuclear power stations (all of which should have been either upgraded or shut down years ago, but weren’t), scared EU would pay Putin to take control of critical infrastructure. The US will gnash its teeth but do nothing: normal US policy is to leave a pile of shit and wait for someone else to clean up.

    I don’t think that even under those circumstances Russia would take over Ukraine, even if IMF and other creditors forgive all the debt current thieves ran up. Russian populace today despises Ukraine and does not want to touch it even with a 10-foot pole. They believe that Donbass earned the right to get Russian help and even acceptance, but don’t want to deal with Nazis and other retards in the rest of Ukraine. Europe won’t spend a penny on rescuing that dying country, neither would the US. So the only solution is: circle it with barbed wire as The Goblin Reservation (using Clifford Simak’s term). It could have been a country, but failed miserably.

    Ukraine does have resources. And fewer people left, more will be available to the remaining population. That’s why I don’t see a collapse. It will gradually get worse, and nobody will help, but there is land, there is food, there is housing, and for the impatient there is always Russia or Poland.

    We might get a larger, slightly richer Albania (or Kosovo). NATO bases to hire a few lucky people and spread some easy money around, consistent emigration, gangs dividing up what’s left, and EU morons prancing around with endless plans on how to improve it. In other words a larger Albania. But it might go on and on. My guess would be that an eclectic strongman eventually takes over by promising to cut utility bills and adopting euro. This one is doozy, we haven’t had wholly idiot-run and populated country for a few decades.

    (My cleaning lady has a PhD from Kiev, won’t discuss politics, and dreams about a visa to move oversees.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Unfortunately, Ukraine is more likely to become a large Kosovo, a mafia-run state.

    Your point about resources would have been valid if it weren’t for widespread corruption and thievery. In 1991 Ukraine was one of the richest and most developed republics (second only to Russia), and now it’s the poorest among 15 recognized and 6 unrecognized post-Soviet countries, as their “elites” stole and squandered everything that was left after the USSR (including lots of weaponry and ammo) and did not produce anything at all. A good example is underground (metro) in Kiev: they didn’t build a single new station in 27 years, whereas in Moscow dozens were built during that period. Now football fans from various countries go to Moscow metro like to a museum and excitedly post lots of pictures and videos showing how beautiful it is. I know only three metro stations in Paris that can compete in terms of decorations, the rest of the world does not even come close.

    As far as Ukraine goes, the US and NATO got, as they say in Russia, a suitcase without a handle: you are reluctant to throw it away, but it’s too awkward to carry. My feelings towards them are best described by a German word “schadenfreude”.

    As to PhD from Kiev, I am not sure what it is worth. I once had a post-doc applicant with a PhD from Kiev University. She gave me a summary of her PhD thesis and a paper she published. Tell you what, I was appalled. Her whole paper contained less than Materials and Methods section of a normal paper in my field has, and her thesis wouldn’t have earned her even Masters in any self-respecting University. Needless to say, I did not even arrange for her talk at our lab meeting.
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  150. Kiza says:
    @AnonFromTN
    The coup in 2014 (perpetrated by armed Nazis, inspired by the US, supported by the US and EU) converted a declining country into a hopeless basket case. I don’t see any solutions. The most likely scenario is that when the current morons create another Chernobyl on one of the Ukrainian nuclear power stations (all of which should have been either upgraded or shut down years ago, but weren’t), scared EU would pay Putin to take control of critical infrastructure. The US will gnash its teeth but do nothing: normal US policy is to leave a pile of shit and wait for someone else to clean up.

    I don’t think that even under those circumstances Russia would take over Ukraine, even if IMF and other creditors forgive all the debt current thieves ran up. Russian populace today despises Ukraine and does not want to touch it even with a 10-foot pole. They believe that Donbass earned the right to get Russian help and even acceptance, but don’t want to deal with Nazis and other retards in the rest of Ukraine. Europe won’t spend a penny on rescuing that dying country, neither would the US. So the only solution is: circle it with barbed wire as The Goblin Reservation (using Clifford Simak’s term). It could have been a country, but failed miserably.

    Yes I still come here, now only sometimes, for still top quality articles and for the commenters such are Beckow, AnonFromTN and a few other (for example, Cyrano can be positively humorous sometimes). These are the people who one can learn something from and can have an informed and intelligent discussion with. My list of barred trolls has become long and I would suggest to Ron to create a mirror image of the feature – a list of people you want to pass instead of a list of people you want to bar. It would be shorter, as a reflection of how bad comments here have become. For example, Johnny Rico has been on my barred list for a long time, I do not know how his one intended humorous but turned out stupid comment got through.

    Read More
    • Replies: @VojkanM
    You are not only a primitive, disrespectful jerk, you also happen to be a sleaze. Serbs do deserve their fate.
    , @Johnny Rico
    Thank you for mentioning me.

    VojkanM is correct. You are the biggest creep on UNZ.

    Cyrano is never funny. He is mentally ill. That he doesn't see how his rape jokes about the Red Army and German women are in bad taste while acknowledging that the Red Army did in fact commit mass rape as semi-policy suggest he is autistic.

    That you consider him your buddy speaks volumes.
    , @AnonFromTN
    Thanks! I think Ron Unz has the system set up this way to let you sample the comments from new people.
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  151. Kiza says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Ukraine (even w/o Crimea, that will never return), consists of more than two parts (see my comment #111). So, if it breaks up, there are going to be quite a few pieces. Western Ukrainians would never agree to that, as their part is the least productive, the poorest and, you guessed it, the most nationalistic.

    What you describe is exactly the reason why the proposed federalisation of Ukraine (obviously by far the best solution) is unacceptable to the Western Ukrainians. It is either war or federalisation, but for the reasons of economy, agronomy, history and current politics the war keeps winning. Perhaps when enough of the crazies die in clashes with the Russian protectors of Eastern Ukraine, the federalisation will finally happen or a dissolution into two/multiple countries as in the Balkans. For the same reasons and also some strategic reasons, US/NATO/EU need Eastern Ukraine and would not let it go either.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Federation, or even confederation, with numerous official languages (like Switzerland) would be a viable solution, in the best interests of Ukraine as a country. However, Ukrainian elites only care about stealing and don’t give a hoot about the country. Current overlords, the US and EU, don’t care about Ukraine, either, they are just trying to use that unfortunate entity as a battering ram against Russia. They were very disappointed to find out how rotten that would-be ram is. Whereas the people in Ukraine, who’d be most interested in making it a viable place, have no say in the matter: Ukraine has about as much democracy as Saudi Arabia. So, Ukraine is going to fester until something really bad happens (like another Chernobyl or a huge catastrophe on one of very few remaining chemical plants). After that, all bets are off.
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  152. Vojkan says:
    @AnonFromTN
    The coup in 2014 (perpetrated by armed Nazis, inspired by the US, supported by the US and EU) converted a declining country into a hopeless basket case. I don’t see any solutions. The most likely scenario is that when the current morons create another Chernobyl on one of the Ukrainian nuclear power stations (all of which should have been either upgraded or shut down years ago, but weren’t), scared EU would pay Putin to take control of critical infrastructure. The US will gnash its teeth but do nothing: normal US policy is to leave a pile of shit and wait for someone else to clean up.

    I don’t think that even under those circumstances Russia would take over Ukraine, even if IMF and other creditors forgive all the debt current thieves ran up. Russian populace today despises Ukraine and does not want to touch it even with a 10-foot pole. They believe that Donbass earned the right to get Russian help and even acceptance, but don’t want to deal with Nazis and other retards in the rest of Ukraine. Europe won’t spend a penny on rescuing that dying country, neither would the US. So the only solution is: circle it with barbed wire as The Goblin Reservation (using Clifford Simak’s term). It could have been a country, but failed miserably.

    I admit that I have always regarded Ukraine as an artificial creation. You don’t call a country Ukraine, you call that a region of a country. There cannot be a nation called Ukraine, it’s semantically impossible. So I don’t know if it could have had continuity as a country. I think it would have definitely been better off as a part of Russia, Kharkov, Dniepropetrovsk, Odessa, most of all Kiev are historically Russian. You can’t save people against their will though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Yes, Ukraine is an artificially created patchwork of heterogenous regions. However, if it followed the example of similarly heterogeneous entities, like Switzerland, it could have been viable. Too late now, I’m afraid.
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  153. VojkanM says:

    The best way not to get unnerved by Balkan punks is to put them on the “hide” list. Of all the people in the world who think they’re God’s gift to the mankind, they are by far the dumbest. Not only are they dumb but concepts like respect, politeness, courtesy are totally foreign to their mindset. Among generally nice people, vociferous punks are a plague.

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    • Replies: @Cyrano
    You said that you are half Montenegrin. You know how Serbs sometimes jokingly refer to the Montenegrins? -Monteniggers. Now I now that they are up to something. They know you better than anybody else. And now you are also distancing yourself from the “Balkan” people. I understand that, you are so much better than them (us). I am rude and I am proud of it. I rather be rude than phony.
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  154. VojkanM says:
    @Kiza
    Yes I still come here, now only sometimes, for still top quality articles and for the commenters such are Beckow, AnonFromTN and a few other (for example, Cyrano can be positively humorous sometimes). These are the people who one can learn something from and can have an informed and intelligent discussion with. My list of barred trolls has become long and I would suggest to Ron to create a mirror image of the feature - a list of people you want to pass instead of a list of people you want to bar. It would be shorter, as a reflection of how bad comments here have become. For example, Johnny Rico has been on my barred list for a long time, I do not know how his one intended humorous but turned out stupid comment got through.

    You are not only a primitive, disrespectful jerk, you also happen to be a sleaze. Serbs do deserve their fate.

    Read More
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  155. @Philip Owen
    Steel tires. You are being very American.

    Of course, I am a lot more American than British. I lived in the US for 27 years. Out of this time I was in the UK maybe 4 weeks total (London, Oxford, Edinburgh, and a few scientific meetings here and there, only where the organizers invited me to give talks).

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  156. @Kiza
    Yes I still come here, now only sometimes, for still top quality articles and for the commenters such are Beckow, AnonFromTN and a few other (for example, Cyrano can be positively humorous sometimes). These are the people who one can learn something from and can have an informed and intelligent discussion with. My list of barred trolls has become long and I would suggest to Ron to create a mirror image of the feature - a list of people you want to pass instead of a list of people you want to bar. It would be shorter, as a reflection of how bad comments here have become. For example, Johnny Rico has been on my barred list for a long time, I do not know how his one intended humorous but turned out stupid comment got through.

    Thank you for mentioning me.

    VojkanM is correct. You are the biggest creep on UNZ.

    Cyrano is never funny. He is mentally ill. That he doesn’t see how his rape jokes about the Red Army and German women are in bad taste while acknowledging that the Red Army did in fact commit mass rape as semi-policy suggest he is autistic.

    That you consider him your buddy speaks volumes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cyrano
    I think that the whole thing was a tragic mistake. Right after the Germans had their a**es handed to them by the Red Army, the German women – I guess out of desire to reciprocate the nice gesture somehow - decided to hand over their own a**es to the Red Army. That’s what I call a fair play. I can go on like this forever. Don’t try to provoke me you stupid a**hole. Just because your governments are playing you for fools all your lives, doesn’t mean that “rehabilitating” the Germans will fix anything. The Germans of the WW2 vintage will always be monsters and they don’t deserve any sympathy.
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  157. @Beckow
    Ukraine does have resources. And fewer people left, more will be available to the remaining population. That's why I don't see a collapse. It will gradually get worse, and nobody will help, but there is land, there is food, there is housing, and for the impatient there is always Russia or Poland.

    We might get a larger, slightly richer Albania (or Kosovo). NATO bases to hire a few lucky people and spread some easy money around, consistent emigration, gangs dividing up what's left, and EU morons prancing around with endless plans on how to improve it. In other words a larger Albania. But it might go on and on. My guess would be that an eclectic strongman eventually takes over by promising to cut utility bills and adopting euro. This one is doozy, we haven't had wholly idiot-run and populated country for a few decades.

    (My cleaning lady has a PhD from Kiev, won't discuss politics, and dreams about a visa to move oversees.)

    Unfortunately, Ukraine is more likely to become a large Kosovo, a mafia-run state.

    Your point about resources would have been valid if it weren’t for widespread corruption and thievery. In 1991 Ukraine was one of the richest and most developed republics (second only to Russia), and now it’s the poorest among 15 recognized and 6 unrecognized post-Soviet countries, as their “elites” stole and squandered everything that was left after the USSR (including lots of weaponry and ammo) and did not produce anything at all. A good example is underground (metro) in Kiev: they didn’t build a single new station in 27 years, whereas in Moscow dozens were built during that period. Now football fans from various countries go to Moscow metro like to a museum and excitedly post lots of pictures and videos showing how beautiful it is. I know only three metro stations in Paris that can compete in terms of decorations, the rest of the world does not even come close.

    As far as Ukraine goes, the US and NATO got, as they say in Russia, a suitcase without a handle: you are reluctant to throw it away, but it’s too awkward to carry. My feelings towards them are best described by a German word “schadenfreude”.

    As to PhD from Kiev, I am not sure what it is worth. I once had a post-doc applicant with a PhD from Kiev University. She gave me a summary of her PhD thesis and a paper she published. Tell you what, I was appalled. Her whole paper contained less than Materials and Methods section of a normal paper in my field has, and her thesis wouldn’t have earned her even Masters in any self-respecting University. Needless to say, I did not even arrange for her talk at our lab meeting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow

    suitcase without a handle: you are reluctant to throw it away, but it’s too awkward to carry
     
    There are a few places like that around the world. My point was that Ukraine has real resources that are still there - arable land, good location, water resources. That is better than for example Kosovo. If someone figures out how to attach a handle to that suitcase, they could have something.

    The 1991-2018 experience of Ukraine is in some ways inexplicable, how did they manage to screw it so badly? Every society has thieves, many European countries have demographic issues, but Ukraine exceeded even the most pessimistic expectations. Quite an achievement, I don't know if it is the heterogeneous people with one foot out, bad leaders or bad luck. They had 25 years of peace, enormous help (mostly from Russia, but others too), and they are objectively worse off than in 1991. No wonder they are having revolutions every few years.

    PhD from Kiev, I am not sure what it is worth
     
    She vacuums great. The part that I find amusing is her reluctance to have an opinion on what is going on in Ukraine.
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  158. @Kiza
    Yes I still come here, now only sometimes, for still top quality articles and for the commenters such are Beckow, AnonFromTN and a few other (for example, Cyrano can be positively humorous sometimes). These are the people who one can learn something from and can have an informed and intelligent discussion with. My list of barred trolls has become long and I would suggest to Ron to create a mirror image of the feature - a list of people you want to pass instead of a list of people you want to bar. It would be shorter, as a reflection of how bad comments here have become. For example, Johnny Rico has been on my barred list for a long time, I do not know how his one intended humorous but turned out stupid comment got through.

    Thanks! I think Ron Unz has the system set up this way to let you sample the comments from new people.

    Read More
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  159. @Kiza
    What you describe is exactly the reason why the proposed federalisation of Ukraine (obviously by far the best solution) is unacceptable to the Western Ukrainians. It is either war or federalisation, but for the reasons of economy, agronomy, history and current politics the war keeps winning. Perhaps when enough of the crazies die in clashes with the Russian protectors of Eastern Ukraine, the federalisation will finally happen or a dissolution into two/multiple countries as in the Balkans. For the same reasons and also some strategic reasons, US/NATO/EU need Eastern Ukraine and would not let it go either.

    Federation, or even confederation, with numerous official languages (like Switzerland) would be a viable solution, in the best interests of Ukraine as a country. However, Ukrainian elites only care about stealing and don’t give a hoot about the country. Current overlords, the US and EU, don’t care about Ukraine, either, they are just trying to use that unfortunate entity as a battering ram against Russia. They were very disappointed to find out how rotten that would-be ram is. Whereas the people in Ukraine, who’d be most interested in making it a viable place, have no say in the matter: Ukraine has about as much democracy as Saudi Arabia. So, Ukraine is going to fester until something really bad happens (like another Chernobyl or a huge catastrophe on one of very few remaining chemical plants). After that, all bets are off.

    Read More
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  160. @Vojkan
    I admit that I have always regarded Ukraine as an artificial creation. You don't call a country Ukraine, you call that a region of a country. There cannot be a nation called Ukraine, it's semantically impossible. So I don't know if it could have had continuity as a country. I think it would have definitely been better off as a part of Russia, Kharkov, Dniepropetrovsk, Odessa, most of all Kiev are historically Russian. You can't save people against their will though.

    Yes, Ukraine is an artificially created patchwork of heterogenous regions. However, if it followed the example of similarly heterogeneous entities, like Switzerland, it could have been viable. Too late now, I’m afraid.

    Read More
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  161. Cyrano says:
    @VojkanM
    The best way not to get unnerved by Balkan punks is to put them on the "hide" list. Of all the people in the world who think they're God's gift to the mankind, they are by far the dumbest. Not only are they dumb but concepts like respect, politeness, courtesy are totally foreign to their mindset. Among generally nice people, vociferous punks are a plague.

    You said that you are half Montenegrin. You know how Serbs sometimes jokingly refer to the Montenegrins? -Monteniggers. Now I now that they are up to something. They know you better than anybody else. And now you are also distancing yourself from the “Balkan” people. I understand that, you are so much better than them (us). I am rude and I am proud of it. I rather be rude than phony.

    Read More
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  162. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Unfortunately, Ukraine is more likely to become a large Kosovo, a mafia-run state.

    Your point about resources would have been valid if it weren’t for widespread corruption and thievery. In 1991 Ukraine was one of the richest and most developed republics (second only to Russia), and now it’s the poorest among 15 recognized and 6 unrecognized post-Soviet countries, as their “elites” stole and squandered everything that was left after the USSR (including lots of weaponry and ammo) and did not produce anything at all. A good example is underground (metro) in Kiev: they didn’t build a single new station in 27 years, whereas in Moscow dozens were built during that period. Now football fans from various countries go to Moscow metro like to a museum and excitedly post lots of pictures and videos showing how beautiful it is. I know only three metro stations in Paris that can compete in terms of decorations, the rest of the world does not even come close.

    As far as Ukraine goes, the US and NATO got, as they say in Russia, a suitcase without a handle: you are reluctant to throw it away, but it’s too awkward to carry. My feelings towards them are best described by a German word “schadenfreude”.

    As to PhD from Kiev, I am not sure what it is worth. I once had a post-doc applicant with a PhD from Kiev University. She gave me a summary of her PhD thesis and a paper she published. Tell you what, I was appalled. Her whole paper contained less than Materials and Methods section of a normal paper in my field has, and her thesis wouldn’t have earned her even Masters in any self-respecting University. Needless to say, I did not even arrange for her talk at our lab meeting.

    suitcase without a handle: you are reluctant to throw it away, but it’s too awkward to carry

    There are a few places like that around the world. My point was that Ukraine has real resources that are still there – arable land, good location, water resources. That is better than for example Kosovo. If someone figures out how to attach a handle to that suitcase, they could have something.

    The 1991-2018 experience of Ukraine is in some ways inexplicable, how did they manage to screw it so badly? Every society has thieves, many European countries have demographic issues, but Ukraine exceeded even the most pessimistic expectations. Quite an achievement, I don’t know if it is the heterogeneous people with one foot out, bad leaders or bad luck. They had 25 years of peace, enormous help (mostly from Russia, but others too), and they are objectively worse off than in 1991. No wonder they are having revolutions every few years.

    PhD from Kiev, I am not sure what it is worth

    She vacuums great. The part that I find amusing is her reluctance to have an opinion on what is going on in Ukraine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Maybe vacuuming is the extent of her qualifications, PhD or no PhD. I always tell my graduate students that PhD does not make dumb people smart, while its absence does not make smart people dumb.

    As to her reluctance to discuss current situation in Ukraine, there is a modern Russian joke about that. A company conducts an interview to fill a position. One guy comes out fuming. He says, the interviewer is a hopeless “liberast”: he asked him who the Crimea belongs to, he answered that it is certainly Russian, whereupon the interviewer said: “thanks, we won’t need your services”. The other interviewed guy says: “No, he is a hard-core Putinista. He asked me about Crimea, too, I told him that it should be returned to Ukraine, and at that point he told me that they won’t need my services”. Meanwhile the third guy comes out and says that the interviewer is a reasonable guy, and that the company just hired him. The others ask: “did he ask you about Crimea?” “He certainly did”. “And what did you answer?” “I said that I do not discuss politics in the workplace”.
    , @Philip Owen
    Ukraine did not have the Yeltsin reforms, however chaotic they were. Ukraine privatised by handing over businesses to people connected with the pre 2004 government. No element of competition. Russia also created "gas wholesalers" to buy itself influence in Ukraine. People like Timoshenko. They were designed to split Ukrainian politics.
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  163. @Beckow

    suitcase without a handle: you are reluctant to throw it away, but it’s too awkward to carry
     
    There are a few places like that around the world. My point was that Ukraine has real resources that are still there - arable land, good location, water resources. That is better than for example Kosovo. If someone figures out how to attach a handle to that suitcase, they could have something.

    The 1991-2018 experience of Ukraine is in some ways inexplicable, how did they manage to screw it so badly? Every society has thieves, many European countries have demographic issues, but Ukraine exceeded even the most pessimistic expectations. Quite an achievement, I don't know if it is the heterogeneous people with one foot out, bad leaders or bad luck. They had 25 years of peace, enormous help (mostly from Russia, but others too), and they are objectively worse off than in 1991. No wonder they are having revolutions every few years.

    PhD from Kiev, I am not sure what it is worth
     
    She vacuums great. The part that I find amusing is her reluctance to have an opinion on what is going on in Ukraine.

    Maybe vacuuming is the extent of her qualifications, PhD or no PhD. I always tell my graduate students that PhD does not make dumb people smart, while its absence does not make smart people dumb.

    As to her reluctance to discuss current situation in Ukraine, there is a modern Russian joke about that. A company conducts an interview to fill a position. One guy comes out fuming. He says, the interviewer is a hopeless “liberast”: he asked him who the Crimea belongs to, he answered that it is certainly Russian, whereupon the interviewer said: “thanks, we won’t need your services”. The other interviewed guy says: “No, he is a hard-core Putinista. He asked me about Crimea, too, I told him that it should be returned to Ukraine, and at that point he told me that they won’t need my services”. Meanwhile the third guy comes out and says that the interviewer is a reasonable guy, and that the company just hired him. The others ask: “did he ask you about Crimea?” “He certainly did”. “And what did you answer?” “I said that I do not discuss politics in the workplace”.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    Probably so. A lot of Ukrainian migrants (in big cities) are impressive people doing very low level jobs. Many, especially women, are shell-shocked - they want to put the whole Ukraine thing behind them and wave off any discussion. It looks like desperation and negation of one's past.

    We forget that with all Maidans, separatists fights, civil war, mayhem in Kiev, etc...only about 10% of Ukrainians have participated in any of it, on any side. Eventually, any coherent force enforcing normal life (no matter how miserable) will come out on top. Or there won't be anything left that is recognizable as Ukraine.
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  164. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Maybe vacuuming is the extent of her qualifications, PhD or no PhD. I always tell my graduate students that PhD does not make dumb people smart, while its absence does not make smart people dumb.

    As to her reluctance to discuss current situation in Ukraine, there is a modern Russian joke about that. A company conducts an interview to fill a position. One guy comes out fuming. He says, the interviewer is a hopeless “liberast”: he asked him who the Crimea belongs to, he answered that it is certainly Russian, whereupon the interviewer said: “thanks, we won’t need your services”. The other interviewed guy says: “No, he is a hard-core Putinista. He asked me about Crimea, too, I told him that it should be returned to Ukraine, and at that point he told me that they won’t need my services”. Meanwhile the third guy comes out and says that the interviewer is a reasonable guy, and that the company just hired him. The others ask: “did he ask you about Crimea?” “He certainly did”. “And what did you answer?” “I said that I do not discuss politics in the workplace”.

    Probably so. A lot of Ukrainian migrants (in big cities) are impressive people doing very low level jobs. Many, especially women, are shell-shocked – they want to put the whole Ukraine thing behind them and wave off any discussion. It looks like desperation and negation of one’s past.

    We forget that with all Maidans, separatists fights, civil war, mayhem in Kiev, etc…only about 10% of Ukrainians have participated in any of it, on any side. Eventually, any coherent force enforcing normal life (no matter how miserable) will come out on top. Or there won’t be anything left that is recognizable as Ukraine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    You are likely right, sensible people would rather forget that horror and start new life somewhere normal. I had to evacuate my mother (she was 89 years old at the time and did not participate in anything on any side) from Lugansk in 2014, which back then was constantly shelled by the Ukrainian army. She was reluctant to go. What convinced her was when Ukrainian shell exploded next to her apartment building and broke all glass in a window in one of her rooms. The area where she lived had ~50 multi-apartment buildings, two schools, a few kindergartens, some stores, and nothing else, yet it was constantly shelled by the Ukies. The school I went to as a child was also hit by a Ukrainian shell.

    As the saying puts it, the army shoots its own people only once, after that it shoots foreign people. Since then Ukie troops were pushed far enough from the city by Lugansk People’s Republic army, so they cannot not shell it any more. I communicate with a few friends in Lugansk; based on what I know I don’t think that Donbass would ever want to return to Ukraine in any format. Things like that take about two generations to fade away.

    I don’t know what will happen to the rest of Ukraine. I only know that I won’t set my foot in that country (or territory) until all Nazis hang from lampposts.
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  165. @Beckow
    Probably so. A lot of Ukrainian migrants (in big cities) are impressive people doing very low level jobs. Many, especially women, are shell-shocked - they want to put the whole Ukraine thing behind them and wave off any discussion. It looks like desperation and negation of one's past.

    We forget that with all Maidans, separatists fights, civil war, mayhem in Kiev, etc...only about 10% of Ukrainians have participated in any of it, on any side. Eventually, any coherent force enforcing normal life (no matter how miserable) will come out on top. Or there won't be anything left that is recognizable as Ukraine.

    You are likely right, sensible people would rather forget that horror and start new life somewhere normal. I had to evacuate my mother (she was 89 years old at the time and did not participate in anything on any side) from Lugansk in 2014, which back then was constantly shelled by the Ukrainian army. She was reluctant to go. What convinced her was when Ukrainian shell exploded next to her apartment building and broke all glass in a window in one of her rooms. The area where she lived had ~50 multi-apartment buildings, two schools, a few kindergartens, some stores, and nothing else, yet it was constantly shelled by the Ukies. The school I went to as a child was also hit by a Ukrainian shell.

    As the saying puts it, the army shoots its own people only once, after that it shoots foreign people. Since then Ukie troops were pushed far enough from the city by Lugansk People’s Republic army, so they cannot not shell it any more. I communicate with a few friends in Lugansk; based on what I know I don’t think that Donbass would ever want to return to Ukraine in any format. Things like that take about two generations to fade away.

    I don’t know what will happen to the rest of Ukraine. I only know that I won’t set my foot in that country (or territory) until all Nazis hang from lampposts.

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  166. Cyrano says:
    @Johnny Rico
    Thank you for mentioning me.

    VojkanM is correct. You are the biggest creep on UNZ.

    Cyrano is never funny. He is mentally ill. That he doesn't see how his rape jokes about the Red Army and German women are in bad taste while acknowledging that the Red Army did in fact commit mass rape as semi-policy suggest he is autistic.

    That you consider him your buddy speaks volumes.

    I think that the whole thing was a tragic mistake. Right after the Germans had their a**es handed to them by the Red Army, the German women – I guess out of desire to reciprocate the nice gesture somehow – decided to hand over their own a**es to the Red Army. That’s what I call a fair play. I can go on like this forever. Don’t try to provoke me you stupid a**hole. Just because your governments are playing you for fools all your lives, doesn’t mean that “rehabilitating” the Germans will fix anything. The Germans of the WW2 vintage will always be monsters and they don’t deserve any sympathy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johnny Rico

    "Don’t try to provoke me"
     
    Why? Because you might be tempted to enlighten us or something?

    I don't think anybody is worried about that. Your thoughts on world history are unintelligible.

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  167. @Avery
    {Poland wasn’t liberated, it was occupied by the Soviets}

    There is occupation and there is occupation.
    During the 6-year Nazi occupation of Poland, 1939-1945, Germans murdered about 5.5 million Poles, about half Jewish and half Christians: true or false?

    How many Poles were murdered during the Soviet 'occupation' of Poland (1945-1990)?

    Were both Stalin and Hitler contract-killers?

    FDR funded USSR, working around State Dept and instead delegating Henry Morgenthau,Jr to negotiate w/ Stalin’s people ; friend-of-FDR Putzi Hanfstaengel discovered Hitler, brought him to the attention of US, funded publication of Mein Kampf; Zionists and Jewish bankers inter alia funded Hitler — Germany goes from hyperinflation to thousands of men in Hugo Boss on what, fees Adolf got for speeches on Wall Street?

    So many Eastern European Jews were surplus, useless eaters; elite Jews wanted the herd culled, surplus Jews dead. Elite Jews — German Jews, were herded to safety; the rest, zionists arranged to have them killed. FDR and Churchill were Cesare Borgia and Hitler and Stalin were their Orca.
    Machiavelli was anything but original; the leader he admired most was Moses, who consulted with God himself. At Mt. Sinai God instructed that non-conforming Jews must be killed, the Levites carried out the task: Jews killed Jews thru a divinely-designated agent-killer. Michael Ledeen self-identifies as a “proud Levite.”

    Zionism was a eugenic project: the vision was never to bring ALL Jews to Palestine/Israel, it was to select the best “human material” from a largely Degenerated populace and turn the selected into the New Jew.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    I have no idea what you are trying to say in this post.
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  168. @Cyrano
    I think that the whole thing was a tragic mistake. Right after the Germans had their a**es handed to them by the Red Army, the German women – I guess out of desire to reciprocate the nice gesture somehow - decided to hand over their own a**es to the Red Army. That’s what I call a fair play. I can go on like this forever. Don’t try to provoke me you stupid a**hole. Just because your governments are playing you for fools all your lives, doesn’t mean that “rehabilitating” the Germans will fix anything. The Germans of the WW2 vintage will always be monsters and they don’t deserve any sympathy.

    “Don’t try to provoke me”

    Why? Because you might be tempted to enlighten us or something?

    I don’t think anybody is worried about that. Your thoughts on world history are unintelligible.

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  169. utu says:
    @Beckow
    You refuse to address historical facts that don't suit your story:
    - Poland joined Hitler at Munich in dismembering Czechoslovakia, taking two districts from Slovakia (Orava and Spis, 100% Slovak ethnically)
    - Slovakia's involvement in Hitler's attack on Poland a year later was limited to retaking those two districts
    - Your statistics for 1939 are disputed, but even those statistics show that East Poland, or more like Western Ukraine and Belarus had Ukrainian-Belorussian majority. And they were incorporated into Poland only after WWI. What goes around comes around.

    Russia signed the infamous pact in August 1939, 1 year after UK, France, Italy and even Poland allied with Nazi Germany in dismembering Czechoslovakia. You can repeat your self-brainwashing all day long, the fact is that Poland (and UK, France) allied themselves with Germany before Stalin's Russia did it. They were all wrong, in retrospect.

    It is awkward to argue with someone who thinks that 'not that many Poles were killed by Germans in WWII, that it is exaggerated'. Ok, so what is the number if not 3 million? 2 million? Does that make it better?

    The plans to eliminate the Poles were real (and also the Czechs). You argue that they were not 'imminent', I am not sure what that means. Are you ok with only 10% killed right away and the rest after Germans would win the war? How do you define 'imminent'?

    I can see why next time nobody will give a damn at all, Polish ethno-masochism is beyond any rationality. Now Poland is posturing as a great place to have a nuclear war, literally painting a huge sign 'Shoot here' on its territory. As I said, quite sad.

    Now Poland is posturing as a great place to have a nuclear war, literally painting a huge sign ‘Shoot here’ on its territory.

    I was always very critical of Poland’s politics in recent years and also in 1938/39. Their posturing and unwillingness to cooperate and surrender costed them a lot. They just do not have the ability to give the blow jobs like Slovaks or Czechs to the biggest dick in the neighborhood. They haven’t learned it and still retains foolish dreams and fantasies of self-importance as being a great nation rather than just a bunch of cocksuckers. In 1939 it was theoretically possible for Poland to resolve the conflict with Germany and get into some sort of alliance with Hitler. Even after September 1939 it was still possible to sign a surrender treaty and retain some level of sovereignty over part of its territory but nobody was designated as Polish Marechal Petain unfortunately which resulted in Poland becoming the killing field unlike the relatively peaceful Vichy. Jews had higher chance of survival in countries that were allied with Hitler (like Hungary) or that retained some sovereignty after the defeat (like Vichy) than in countries that were defeated by Hitler (like Poland or Holland). Obviously Slovakia is an outlier in this scheme because she did not use her high level of sovereignty to protect her Jews.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    In 1939 it was theoretically possible for Poland to resolve the conflict with Germany and get into some sort of alliance with Hitler.
     
    I really don't think Hitler was interested. He wanted some blood and soil, not everybody was allowed to surrender and collaborate. Poles were fooling themselves in 1938-39, and I am afraid they are doing it again today. For the real West, the one that decides who-whom when the chips are down, Poles are a disposable tool.

    The highest survival rate for Jews in WWII was in Germany. If you understand why, you will get some insight into what was it really like. Slovakia had a low level of sovereignty and a domestic anti-Jewish forces. I suspect if Poland was offered a 'Slovak-like' autonomy in WWII, they would act roughly the same.

    It is unhelpful to talk dicks and related acts. That analogy doesn't shed any light on the situation. A basic rule of evolution (tribal or national evolution and survival) is that one doesn't do foolish things for short-term emotional satisfaction. When things get tough, survival and avoidance of sacrifice are paramount. There is also an important pre-crisis benchmark: don't put yourself in a situation where all available options are terrible. Poland did in 1939. I think they are close to doing it again. Of course, we might all be a lot more lucky this time. Or a lot less. In any case, I would rather chill in Slovak mountains than face what Poland could face. And the cock-related folklore in the mountains is excellent, it just isn't on a macro level, more like individual initiative. Look into it, maybe the Poles could find some happiness after all.
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  170. @VojkanM
    I wonder:
    a) you are dumb, God bless the innocent
    b) you are a mythomaniac, God be merciful upon the fools
    c) you're an a**hole, God, ...ahem, God You do as it suits You...

    on the other hand, I actually have a business in Russia and have been doing business there since 1994 so i might know something.

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  171. Beckow says:
    @utu

    Now Poland is posturing as a great place to have a nuclear war, literally painting a huge sign ‘Shoot here’ on its territory.
     
    I was always very critical of Poland's politics in recent years and also in 1938/39. Their posturing and unwillingness to cooperate and surrender costed them a lot. They just do not have the ability to give the blow jobs like Slovaks or Czechs to the biggest dick in the neighborhood. They haven't learned it and still retains foolish dreams and fantasies of self-importance as being a great nation rather than just a bunch of cocksuckers. In 1939 it was theoretically possible for Poland to resolve the conflict with Germany and get into some sort of alliance with Hitler. Even after September 1939 it was still possible to sign a surrender treaty and retain some level of sovereignty over part of its territory but nobody was designated as Polish Marechal Petain unfortunately which resulted in Poland becoming the killing field unlike the relatively peaceful Vichy. Jews had higher chance of survival in countries that were allied with Hitler (like Hungary) or that retained some sovereignty after the defeat (like Vichy) than in countries that were defeated by Hitler (like Poland or Holland). Obviously Slovakia is an outlier in this scheme because she did not use her high level of sovereignty to protect her Jews.

    In 1939 it was theoretically possible for Poland to resolve the conflict with Germany and get into some sort of alliance with Hitler.

    I really don’t think Hitler was interested. He wanted some blood and soil, not everybody was allowed to surrender and collaborate. Poles were fooling themselves in 1938-39, and I am afraid they are doing it again today. For the real West, the one that decides who-whom when the chips are down, Poles are a disposable tool.

    The highest survival rate for Jews in WWII was in Germany. If you understand why, you will get some insight into what was it really like. Slovakia had a low level of sovereignty and a domestic anti-Jewish forces. I suspect if Poland was offered a ‘Slovak-like’ autonomy in WWII, they would act roughly the same.

    It is unhelpful to talk dicks and related acts. That analogy doesn’t shed any light on the situation. A basic rule of evolution (tribal or national evolution and survival) is that one doesn’t do foolish things for short-term emotional satisfaction. When things get tough, survival and avoidance of sacrifice are paramount. There is also an important pre-crisis benchmark: don’t put yourself in a situation where all available options are terrible. Poland did in 1939. I think they are close to doing it again. Of course, we might all be a lot more lucky this time. Or a lot less. In any case, I would rather chill in Slovak mountains than face what Poland could face. And the cock-related folklore in the mountains is excellent, it just isn’t on a macro level, more like individual initiative. Look into it, maybe the Poles could find some happiness after all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza

    When things get tough, survival and avoidance of sacrifice are paramount. There is also an important pre-crisis benchmark: don’t put yourself in a situation where all available options are terrible. Poland did in 1939. I think they are close to doing it again.
     
    This about sums it all up for Poland. My comment before about stupid whole nations (a deliberate exaggeration) was not as eloquent as yours but it was saying the same thing, plus my comment was criticizing the Polish inability to learn even from own past experience. The Poles need to find a moderate position instead of throwing themselves into the unloving embrace of the declining empire just to become its disposable fodder. An ascending empire may even do otherwise, but a declining one will only do one thing: use up its "allies" to slow down the loss and the decline.
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  172. Avery says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    Were both Stalin and Hitler contract-killers?

    FDR funded USSR, working around State Dept and instead delegating Henry Morgenthau,Jr to negotiate w/ Stalin's people ; friend-of-FDR Putzi Hanfstaengel discovered Hitler, brought him to the attention of US, funded publication of Mein Kampf; Zionists and Jewish bankers inter alia funded Hitler -- Germany goes from hyperinflation to thousands of men in Hugo Boss on what, fees Adolf got for speeches on Wall Street?

    So many Eastern European Jews were surplus, useless eaters; elite Jews wanted the herd culled, surplus Jews dead. Elite Jews -- German Jews, were herded to safety; the rest, zionists arranged to have them killed. FDR and Churchill were Cesare Borgia and Hitler and Stalin were their Orca.
    Machiavelli was anything but original; the leader he admired most was Moses, who consulted with God himself. At Mt. Sinai God instructed that non-conforming Jews must be killed, the Levites carried out the task: Jews killed Jews thru a divinely-designated agent-killer. Michael Ledeen self-identifies as a "proud Levite."

    Zionism was a eugenic project: the vision was never to bring ALL Jews to Palestine/Israel, it was to select the best "human material" from a largely Degenerated populace and turn the selected into the New Jew.

    I have no idea what you are trying to say in this post.

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  173. Kiza says:
    @Beckow

    In 1939 it was theoretically possible for Poland to resolve the conflict with Germany and get into some sort of alliance with Hitler.
     
    I really don't think Hitler was interested. He wanted some blood and soil, not everybody was allowed to surrender and collaborate. Poles were fooling themselves in 1938-39, and I am afraid they are doing it again today. For the real West, the one that decides who-whom when the chips are down, Poles are a disposable tool.

    The highest survival rate for Jews in WWII was in Germany. If you understand why, you will get some insight into what was it really like. Slovakia had a low level of sovereignty and a domestic anti-Jewish forces. I suspect if Poland was offered a 'Slovak-like' autonomy in WWII, they would act roughly the same.

    It is unhelpful to talk dicks and related acts. That analogy doesn't shed any light on the situation. A basic rule of evolution (tribal or national evolution and survival) is that one doesn't do foolish things for short-term emotional satisfaction. When things get tough, survival and avoidance of sacrifice are paramount. There is also an important pre-crisis benchmark: don't put yourself in a situation where all available options are terrible. Poland did in 1939. I think they are close to doing it again. Of course, we might all be a lot more lucky this time. Or a lot less. In any case, I would rather chill in Slovak mountains than face what Poland could face. And the cock-related folklore in the mountains is excellent, it just isn't on a macro level, more like individual initiative. Look into it, maybe the Poles could find some happiness after all.

    When things get tough, survival and avoidance of sacrifice are paramount. There is also an important pre-crisis benchmark: don’t put yourself in a situation where all available options are terrible. Poland did in 1939. I think they are close to doing it again.

    This about sums it all up for Poland. My comment before about stupid whole nations (a deliberate exaggeration) was not as eloquent as yours but it was saying the same thing, plus my comment was criticizing the Polish inability to learn even from own past experience. The Poles need to find a moderate position instead of throwing themselves into the unloving embrace of the declining empire just to become its disposable fodder. An ascending empire may even do otherwise, but a declining one will only do one thing: use up its “allies” to slow down the loss and the decline.

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  174. @Beckow

    suitcase without a handle: you are reluctant to throw it away, but it’s too awkward to carry
     
    There are a few places like that around the world. My point was that Ukraine has real resources that are still there - arable land, good location, water resources. That is better than for example Kosovo. If someone figures out how to attach a handle to that suitcase, they could have something.

    The 1991-2018 experience of Ukraine is in some ways inexplicable, how did they manage to screw it so badly? Every society has thieves, many European countries have demographic issues, but Ukraine exceeded even the most pessimistic expectations. Quite an achievement, I don't know if it is the heterogeneous people with one foot out, bad leaders or bad luck. They had 25 years of peace, enormous help (mostly from Russia, but others too), and they are objectively worse off than in 1991. No wonder they are having revolutions every few years.

    PhD from Kiev, I am not sure what it is worth
     
    She vacuums great. The part that I find amusing is her reluctance to have an opinion on what is going on in Ukraine.

    Ukraine did not have the Yeltsin reforms, however chaotic they were. Ukraine privatised by handing over businesses to people connected with the pre 2004 government. No element of competition. Russia also created “gas wholesalers” to buy itself influence in Ukraine. People like Timoshenko. They were designed to split Ukrainian politics.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    Ukraine privatised by handing over businesses to people connected with the pre 2004 government
     
    That's exactly what Yeltsin did. That is the nature of all 'privatisation', from UK under Thatcher to Argentina or Ukraine, and probably also in ancient Rome: privatisation is the process of handing over state assets to people somehow connected to the government of the day.

    The gas situation was also self-inflicted by Ukraine, if you don't manage rationally your energy distribution it will be taken over by the thieving class, it is just too easy.

    Nobody from the outside 'designed' any of this, it was done by Ukrainians to other Ukrainians. The 'revolutions' like Maidan were not real revolutions, they kept the economic structure in place, they are elite fights over who gets to be the top dog and are used by foreigners for their own purposes. But at some point, Ukrainians have to take responsibility for this. It is not Nuland or Putin who are their problem, but they themselves.

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  175. Beckow says:
    @Philip Owen
    Ukraine did not have the Yeltsin reforms, however chaotic they were. Ukraine privatised by handing over businesses to people connected with the pre 2004 government. No element of competition. Russia also created "gas wholesalers" to buy itself influence in Ukraine. People like Timoshenko. They were designed to split Ukrainian politics.

    Ukraine privatised by handing over businesses to people connected with the pre 2004 government

    That’s exactly what Yeltsin did. That is the nature of all ‘privatisation’, from UK under Thatcher to Argentina or Ukraine, and probably also in ancient Rome: privatisation is the process of handing over state assets to people somehow connected to the government of the day.

    The gas situation was also self-inflicted by Ukraine, if you don’t manage rationally your energy distribution it will be taken over by the thieving class, it is just too easy.

    Nobody from the outside ‘designed’ any of this, it was done by Ukrainians to other Ukrainians. The ‘revolutions’ like Maidan were not real revolutions, they kept the economic structure in place, they are elite fights over who gets to be the top dog and are used by foreigners for their own purposes. But at some point, Ukrainians have to take responsibility for this. It is not Nuland or Putin who are their problem, but they themselves.

    Read More
    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Unusually sober assessment. Unfortunately, even now Ukrainians mostly fall into two categories: some think the Russia should take over and solve their problems, the others want to join EU and NATO, thereby forcing EU and NATO to solve their problems. There are too few who believe that Ukrainians themselves must solve the problems of Ukraine. That explains dismal state this country is in.
    , @APilgrim
    "privatisation is ... handing over state assets to people somehow connected to the government "

    Please explain how The Homestead Act of 1862 conforms to your definition.

    Signed into law by President Abraham Lincoln on May 20, 1862, the Homestead Act encouraged Western migration by providing settlers 160 acres of public land. In exchange, homesteaders paid a small filing fee and were required to complete five years of continuous residence before receiving ownership of the land. https://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/homestead.html

    The Russian Federation has recently unveiled a Homestead Act. The Russian government is offering a hectare of land in the Khankaisky district of the Russian Far East to potential homesteaders as an enticement to residents of western Russia.

    Russia Looks to Populate Its Far East. Wimps Need Not Apply. By Andrew Higgins, KAMEN-RYBOLOV, Russia, July 14, 2016, https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/world/europe/russia-looks-to-populate-its-far-east-wimps-need-not-apply.html - https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/07/10/world/xxcossack2/xxcossack2-superJumbo.jpg
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  176. @Beckow

    Ukraine privatised by handing over businesses to people connected with the pre 2004 government
     
    That's exactly what Yeltsin did. That is the nature of all 'privatisation', from UK under Thatcher to Argentina or Ukraine, and probably also in ancient Rome: privatisation is the process of handing over state assets to people somehow connected to the government of the day.

    The gas situation was also self-inflicted by Ukraine, if you don't manage rationally your energy distribution it will be taken over by the thieving class, it is just too easy.

    Nobody from the outside 'designed' any of this, it was done by Ukrainians to other Ukrainians. The 'revolutions' like Maidan were not real revolutions, they kept the economic structure in place, they are elite fights over who gets to be the top dog and are used by foreigners for their own purposes. But at some point, Ukrainians have to take responsibility for this. It is not Nuland or Putin who are their problem, but they themselves.

    Unusually sober assessment. Unfortunately, even now Ukrainians mostly fall into two categories: some think the Russia should take over and solve their problems, the others want to join EU and NATO, thereby forcing EU and NATO to solve their problems. There are too few who believe that Ukrainians themselves must solve the problems of Ukraine. That explains dismal state this country is in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    A classic cargo cult situation and that never ends well. Some benign neglect is in order, they probably should go back to the land and start all over again.
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  177. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Unusually sober assessment. Unfortunately, even now Ukrainians mostly fall into two categories: some think the Russia should take over and solve their problems, the others want to join EU and NATO, thereby forcing EU and NATO to solve their problems. There are too few who believe that Ukrainians themselves must solve the problems of Ukraine. That explains dismal state this country is in.

    A classic cargo cult situation and that never ends well. Some benign neglect is in order, they probably should go back to the land and start all over again.

    Read More
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  178. Dresden says:

    emphasis added:

    ” … in the EU, as in Canada, they all know who is boss. And here is the single most important fact: NATO desperately needs Russia as justification for its own existence: if relations with Russia improve, then NATO would have no more reason to exist. Do you really think that anybody will let that happen? I sure don’t! And right now, the Europeans are busy asking for more US troops on their soil, not less and they are all pretending to be terrified by a Russian invasion, hence the need for more and bigger military exercises close to the Russian border. ”

    In EU, Germany is not terrified, Germany is INFURATED:

    Warum soll Deutschland eine Konfrontation gegen Russland anführen?
    Excerpt, emphasis added

    ”Sie fügt hinzu, auf die deutsche Führungsrolle zurückkommend, sie glaube, «dass sich Europa das wünscht. Weil Deutschland so erfolgreich aus seiner dunklen Geschichte gekommen ist, weil es die Wiedervereinigung [auch dank vor allem massiver US-amerikanischer Unterstützung und sicher nicht ohne US-amerikanische Interessen] geschafft hat.» Und dann nochmals: «Es gibt keinen Grund, warum Deutschland nicht die Führungsrolle in Europa innehaben sollte, aber das bedeutet auch, dass man in der Lage sein sollte, sich selbst zu verteidigen.» …

    Aber niemand bedroht Deutschland. Ist «Verteidigung» also nur ein Propagandawort für eine geplante Aggression gegen Russland? Und werden die Deutschen auf diese Schalmaientöne hereinfallen?”

    Source: Zeit-Fragen

    https://www.zeit-fragen.ch/de/ausgaben/2018/nr-14-19-juni-2018/warum-soll-deutschland-eine-konfrontation-gegen-russland-anfuehren-von-karl-mueller.html

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  179. V. O. says:

    emphasis added:

    ” … in the EU, as in Canada, they all know who is boss. And here is the single most important fact: NATO desperately needs Russia as justification for its own existence: if relations with Russia improve, then NATO would have no more reason to exist. Do you really think that anybody will let that happen? I sure don’t! And right now, the Europeans are busy asking for more US troops on their soil, not less and they are all pretending to be terrified by a Russian invasion, hence the need for more and bigger military exercises close to the Russian border. “

    In the EU, Germany is not terrified, Germany is INFURATED:

    Warum soll Deutschland eine Konfrontation gegen Russland anführen?
    Excerpt, emphasis added

    ”Sie fügt hinzu, auf die deutsche Führungsrolle zurückkommend, sie glaube, «dass sich Europa das wünscht. Weil Deutschland so erfolgreich aus seiner dunklen Geschichte gekommen ist, weil es die Wiedervereinigung [auch dank vor allem massiver US-amerikanischer Unterstützung und sicher nicht ohne US-amerikanische Interessen] geschafft hat.» Und dann nochmals: «Es gibt keinen Grund, warum Deutschland nicht die Führungsrolle in Europa innehaben sollte, aber das bedeutet auch, dass man in der Lage sein sollte, sich selbst zu verteidigen.» …

    Aber niemand bedroht Deutschland. Ist «Verteidigung» also nur ein Propagandawort für eine geplante Aggression gegen Russland? Und werden die Deutschen auf diese Schalmaientöne hereinfallen?”

    Source: Zeit-Fragen

    https://www.zeit-fragen.ch/de/ausgaben/2018/nr-14-19-juni-2018/warum-soll-deutschland-eine-konfrontation-gegen-russland-anfuehren-von-karl-mueller.html

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  180. APilgrim says:
    @Beckow

    Ukraine privatised by handing over businesses to people connected with the pre 2004 government
     
    That's exactly what Yeltsin did. That is the nature of all 'privatisation', from UK under Thatcher to Argentina or Ukraine, and probably also in ancient Rome: privatisation is the process of handing over state assets to people somehow connected to the government of the day.

    The gas situation was also self-inflicted by Ukraine, if you don't manage rationally your energy distribution it will be taken over by the thieving class, it is just too easy.

    Nobody from the outside 'designed' any of this, it was done by Ukrainians to other Ukrainians. The 'revolutions' like Maidan were not real revolutions, they kept the economic structure in place, they are elite fights over who gets to be the top dog and are used by foreigners for their own purposes. But at some point, Ukrainians have to take responsibility for this. It is not Nuland or Putin who are their problem, but they themselves.

    “privatisation is … handing over state assets to people somehow connected to the government ”

    Please explain how The Homestead Act of 1862 conforms to your definition.

    Signed into law by President Abraham Lincoln on May 20, 1862, the Homestead Act encouraged Western migration by providing settlers 160 acres of public land. In exchange, homesteaders paid a small filing fee and were required to complete five years of continuous residence before receiving ownership of the land. https://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/homestead.html

    The Russian Federation has recently unveiled a Homestead Act. The Russian government is offering a hectare of land in the Khankaisky district of the Russian Far East to potential homesteaders as an enticement to residents of western Russia.

    Russia Looks to Populate Its Far East. Wimps Need Not Apply. By Andrew Higgins, KAMEN-RYBOLOV, Russia, July 14, 2016, https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/world/europe/russia-looks-to-populate-its-far-east-wimps-need-not-apply.html -

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