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In a recent article entitled “China, Bolivia and Venezuela are proof that social democracy cannot thrive in the global capitalist order” my China-based friend and correspondent Jeff J. Brown asked me an exceedingly interesting and important question. He wrote:

Russia is a social democracy, with a large, successful people owned industrial sector and many social services for the 99% from the Soviet era. But, unlike Bolivia and Ukraine, it is avoiding the West’s color revolution poison pill, because since 1999, Russia has gone from strength to strength, under the inspired leadership of patriotic President Vladimir Putin. But like all social democracies, the problem is what happens if another Western whore Boris Yeltsin succeeds Putin, and returns Russia to its dystopian Wall Street rape of the 1990s? Then what? It only took Macri four short years to bring Argentina back onto its groveling knees. Without a 100% nationalized media, Russians had better be demanding that Putin & Russian Patriots Inc. work overtime to censor all the Western overthrow garbage that is put in Cyrillic ink and on the airwaves. I would love to hear what my good friend Andrei Raevsky thinks about this at The Saker ( http://thesaker.is/ ), because let’s be honest: without China’s, Russia’s and Iran’s continued anti-imperial independence and socialist success into the 21st century, humanity can kiss its ass goodbye!

Let’s begin by deconstructing the assumptions and implications of Jeff’s question.
China and Russia could be separated
The first assumptions Jeff makes are the following ones:

  1. Russia is a social democracy
  2. The Russian media is not 100% state controlled
  3. A new Eltsin might succeed Putin
  4. The West is saturating the Russian information space with garbage
  5. That western propaganda can still strongly impact Russia
  6. China and Russia could be separated (hence the need to prevent that as the central thesis of Jeff)

And, finally, considering the above, Jeff offers the following compelling implication for the China-Russia-Iran triangle:

  1. Considering the above, China’s independence and support for Russia and Iran are vital for the sovereignty and freedom, if not survival, of Russia and Iran

Now let’s begin by looking into Jeff’s assumptions:

Russia is a social democracy:

Yes and no. If we define a social democracy as being a specific polity and system of laws, then Russia is a social democracy. However, if we define social democracy as a specific polity, system of laws and social culture, then I would argue that to the extent that Russia is, indeed, a social democracy, she is a rather weird one. What do I mean by that?

By that I mean that thanks to the nightmare of “democracy” under Eltsin and his US curators, and thanks to the recent explosion of “democracy” in the Ukraine, the Russian people have by and large come to consider the words “liberal” and “democracy” as four letter words. For example, the word “либерал” (liberal) has now given birth to a derived word либераст which takes the first letters of the word “liberal” and adds the last letters of the word педераст (pederast – a rude word for homosexual [yes, in Russian homosexuality and pederasty are not separated!]) which results in the new word “liberast” the closest to which in English would be something like “libfag”, hardly a compliment. In some interpretations, a “liberast” is also somebody who has been “f**ked by democracy“. Not much better… As for the word “демократия” (democracy) for years it has already been called “дерьмократия” (using the first letters of дерьмо (der’mo or shit) and the last letter of democracy to create der’mokratia or “shitocracy”. Finally, there is also the saying that “демократия, это власть демократов” (democracy is the rule of the democrats), which for a country which has undergone the 1990s and seen the Ukraine being comprehensively FUBARed is ominous; not funny at all. All this is simply to show that culturally the Russian society is not at all your typical social democracy. It is a sort of democracy in which the majority of the people do not believe in democracy. This is very important, crucial even, and I will address this issue later.

The Russian media is not 100% state controlled:

That is absolutely true! However, it misses an important point: the real profile of the Russian media which is much more complex than “state controlled” vs “free media”. To make a long story short, the main TV channels, while not really “controlled” by the state at all, are mostly pro-Kremlin. But here we need to get the cause and effect right: these channels are not pro-Kremlin only because they get state funds or because of the political power of the Kremlin, the main reason why they are pro-Kremlin is the terrible rating of those media outlets who took a strong anti-Kremlin position.

To make my point, I want to mention the rabidly anti-Kremlin TV station which is very well known in Russia (Dozhd’ – see here for the (predictably complimentary) entry in Wikipedia for this TV channel). In fact, Dozhd’ is just the best known of a fairly extensive anti-Kremlin media but, in reality, there are many more outlets which hold an anti-Kremlin pro-Empire line. However, as I explained in a 2016 article entitled “Counter-Propaganda, Russian Style” and then, again, in 2017, in the article “Revisiting Russian Counter-Propaganda Methods” the Kremlin has developed a very effective counter-propaganda strategy: instead of suppressing the Empire’s propaganda (like the Soviets did, most unsuccessfully), the Kremlin now directly funds that same propaganda! Not only does the (state-owned) Gazprom finance Dozd’ – the western and Russian liberal guests which ridicule themselves on Russian TV are also generously paid for each of their appearances. Even hardcore Ukronazi nutcases get invited regularly (when they truly overdo it they also get into fights, or get kicked out of the studios, which is all very much fin to watch and is therefore watched by millions). The truth is that at this point the AngloZionist propaganda in Russia has much more of a very healthy “vaccination” effect then the ability to convince anybody beyond the “traditional” 2-4% of folks in Russia who still think that the West is some kind of heaven on earth and Russia an ugly, vicious and freedom crushing “Mordor”.

ORDER IT NOW

This being said, there is one channel through which the worst of the western consumer-society propaganda still permeates Russia: commercials. Russian commercials are mostly absolutely disgusting; they basically vehiculate one crude and simple message “Russians must become US Americans”. That propaganda via commercials is, I think the single most toxic and insidious form of de-russification I can think of and it is far more dangerous than any other means of “defacing” Russia.

Finally, and to my great regret, media outlets like RT and Sputnik have decided to “go native” I suppose and they now cater to western tastes much more than to Russian ones. The quasi constant “reporting” about MMA fights, minimally clad ladies, sex in all its shapes and forms and Hollywood gossip – all of this just goes to show that the folks in charge of these media outlets have decided that catering the the lowest possible social common denominator is the way to promote Russia abroad. I am not so sure. What began with “Question More” and “Telling the Untold” now seems more preoccupied with trying to copy the yellow press in the UK than to challenge the Empire. I very much regret that state of affairs.

Unfortunately, there are also a lot of 5th columnists and russophobes in these media outlets (especially in their online, Internet-based, websites; the actual radio/TV shows are mostly better).

So all is not rosy in the Russian media scene, but its not all bad either.

A new Eltsin might succeed Putin

Here I can only completely agree, and that is very scary. Due to the lack of space, I will present my arguments in a short, bullet-point, list:

  • “Russia” is still very much a “one man show” meaning that Putin himself, as a person, is still absolutely vital to the current functioning of Russia. Not only are most Russians still strongly supportive of him personally, but there are no credible candidates to replace him. Yes, there are a few potential candidates out there (in no special order: Ivanov, Shoigu and Rogozin would be the best known, but there are others, of course), but what makes it all worse is that historically, Russia, unlike China, has a very bad record of successions.
  • The 5th column is still there and while it keeps a very low profile (current events favor the Eurasian Sovereignists), it is still there, literally in all branches of power and very much inside the Moscow elites who hate Putin for putting an end to what they saw as the “Bonanza of the 1990s”.
  • There is a patriotic Russian opposition to Putin, and it is slowly growing, but it is poorly organized, has a lot of clueless nostalgics of the Soviet era and a lot of its criticisms are, frankly, naive or plain silly (along with very valid points too!). I don’t see this opposition capable of producing a strong and credible leader. But that might change in the future.
  • Thus the cornerstone of “Putinism” is Putin himself. With him gone, for whatever reason, Putinism could very rapidly fade too. This might be a good or a bad thing depending on the specific circumstances, but the chances that this might be a very bad thing are higher than the opposite being true.

“Putin The Man”, urgently needs to be replaced by “Putin The System”, but that is truly a herculean task because that means reforming/purging most of the immense and powerful Russian bureaucracy and find somewhere a new generation of men and women who could be both effective and trusted. The problem is that in most cases when one man goes against a system, the system wins. Putin is the proverbial case of a very good man in a very bad system. True, he has successfully reformed the two branches of government which were most needed to make it possible for both him and Russia to survive the war the Empire was waging on Russia: the armed forces and the intelligence/security forces. Other parts of the Russian state are still in a terrible shape (the entire legal system for starters!).

I think that the risk of an Eltsin-like prostitute coming to power is real, even if the bulk of the population would not necessarily approve of it (or be divided about it). Long-term historical stability of a huge country like Russia cannot come from a man. It can only come from institutions. And just as Peter I destroyed the traditional Russian monarchy, so can one man destroy the current “new Russia” (for lack of a better descriptor), especially if this “new Russia” has only one man as its cornerstone.

Finally, history teaches us that every time that Russia is weak or disunited, the western powers immediately pounce and intervene, including with military means. The Poles are still dreaming about yet another chance to prove Churchill’s diagnosis about Poland true and pounce on both the Ukraine and Russia if given the chance.

The West is saturating the Russian information space with garbage and western propaganda can still strongly impact Russia

As we have seen above, these are both at least partially true, but they are also not that much of a big deal. This is clearly a source of potential concern, a danger, but not a threat (a danger being vague, a threat specific). To the extend that this is a bad thing, this is mostly due to the hyper-materialistic consumer culture which currently competes against a much more traditional, Russian culture. It is hard to say which one will win. The former has much, much bigger financial means, the latter one has a strong ‘home turf advantage”. Only time will show which will prevail. So long as many Russians will think “western propaganda lies” (which most understand) AND are attracted to western-style commercials (which are, in so many ways, an even much more effective and insidious form of propaganda), the jury will remain out on who will prevail should instability return to Russia.

China and Russia could be separated

This is probably the most important assumption made by Jeff. First, since this is completely hypothetical, and since we are not future-seeing prophets let’s first agree to never say never and not dismiss this possibility out of hand. This being said, I would like to remind everybody that Russia and China have gradually changed the labels which they applied to the other side. The latest (as far as I know, Chinese speakers please correct me if needed!) expression used by Xi and other Chinese officials is “Comprehensive Strategic Partnership of Coordination for the New Era“. There is a lot to unpack here, but let’s just say that this does not sound like the Chinese came up with that concept lightly or that they have many misgivings about the future of the relationship with Russia. As for the Russians, they have now openly used the term “ally” on many occasions, including Putin. In Russian that word “ally” (союзник) is a very strong one and contrasts sharply with the cynical and disgusted way the Russians always speak about their western “partners” (which often shocks those who don’t speak Russian).

And it is not all sweet talk either. The Russians and the Chinese have had many and major joint military maneuvers, they have practiced the Russian equivalent of the US/NATO “Combined Joint Task Force” concept (see here for details). Thus, while not formal allies, Russia and China do all the things which close allies do. I would even argue that the “informal symbiosis” between Russia and China is far stronger than the NATO alliance.

It is my opinion that what Putin and Xi have done is something which has no previous equivalent in history, at least as far as I know. Even though both Russia and China have been empires in the past, I strongly believe that both of these countries have entered a “post-imperial phase” in which the trappings of empire have been replaced by an acute sense that empires are extremely bad not only for the nations which it oppresses, but also for the nation which hosts it. Both Russia and China have paid a horrendous price for their imperial years and both Russia and China completely understand that the people of the US are also amongst the prime victims of the (transnational) Anglo-Zionist Empire, even if that is all too often forgotten. Not only do they not want to repeat their own mistakes, they see the US dying in the quicksands of imperialism and the last thing they want is to jump in and join the US.

I believe that the relationship between Russia and China is a symbiosis, which is much stronger than any alliances because while the latter can be broken, the former typically cannot (at least not without extremely severe consequences). I also believe that Putin and Xi both understand that the fact that Russia and China are so completely different is not a problem, but a tremendous asset: they fit perfectly, like Lego or puzzle pieces. What Russia has China does not and vice-versa. And, just to clarify for the logically challenged: both sides also understand that they will never get from the other side by war what they could get by peaceful exchange. Yes, the silly Polish dream of having Russia invaded by China several times (an old Polish joke of sorts) is only a reflection of the ancient Polish inferiority complex, not of geostrategic realities 🙂

Of course, in theory, anything could happen. But I personally see no chain of events which could be sufficient to threaten the Sino-Russian symbiotic relationship, not even a collapse of “New Russia Putinism” (not elegant, but functional for our purposes) or the kind of chaos which a Eltsin type of comprador regime could try to reimpose on Russia. At the end of the day, if Russia collapses then China will hold truly immense financial and economic power over Russia and will therefore be able to impose at least a China-friendly regime. In that extremely unlikely case, Russia would, of course, lose her sovereignty, but not to the West, but to China. That is not quite what Jeff had in mind.

Conclusion:

Yes, Russia and China need each other. I would argue that they need each other. Vitally. And yes, the “loss” of one would threaten the other. But that is not just true for Russia, it is also very true of China (which desperately needs Russian energy, high-tech, natural resources, weapons systems but most of all, Russian experience: for most of her existence Russia was threatened, invaded, attacked, sanctioned, boycotted and disparaged by a long succession of western states, and she defeated them all. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but each time Russia prevailed. The determination and ability to resist the West is something which is deeply embedded in the Russian cultural DNA (this in sharp contrast with the rest of the so-called “East European” countries). Finally, and for all their very real recent advances, the Chinese armed forces are still far behind the Russian (or the US for that matter) and in a one-on-one war against the US China would definitely lose, especially if the US goes “all out”. Russia, on the other hand, has the means to turn the US and Europe into a post-industrial nuclear wasteland (using nuclear and, most importantly, non-nuclear munitions!).

I would also add something Jeff did not address: Iran. I believe that both Russia and China also very much need Iran. Okay, that is not a vital need, both Russia and China could survive without an allied Iran, but Iran offers immense advantages to both countries, if only because thanks to the truly phenomenal stupidity of the Neocons the US’s breathtakingly stupid policies in the Middle-East (here is just the latest example) have turned Iran into a regional super-power eclipsing both Israel and the KSA. Furthermore, if Russia has shown much more political and moral courage than China (which, lets be honest, has been pretty happy to have Russia taking the brunt of the Empire’s attacks), Iran has shown much more political and moral courage than Russia, especially concerning the slow-motion genocide perpetrated by the Zionist Entity in Palestine.

And this brings us full circle to the discussion of what kind of country Russia currently really is. Russia is not the Soviet Union. Neither is she pre-1917 Russia. But what is she really?

Nobody really knows, I think.

It is a moving target, a process. This process might lead to a new and stable “new Russia”, but that is by no means certain. Paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 of Article 13 of the Russian Constitution say:

  1. In the Russian Federation ideological diversity shall be recognized
  2. No ideology may be established as state or obligatory one.
  3. In the Russian Federation political diversity and multi-party system shall be recognized.

In other words, not only is there no “no official ideology” in Russia, there is an explicit recognition for a multi-party political system (itself an ideological statement, by the way). These are all potentially very dangerous and toxic items in the Russian Constitution which already are hindering a true national, cultural, psychological and spiritual rebirth of Russia. Iran, in contrast, has succeeded in creating an Islamic Republic which is both truly and unapologetically Islamic and truly democratic, at least in the sense that, unlike western democracies which are mostly run by minorities and for minorities (or a coalition of minorities), in Iran the majority supports the system in place.

ORDER IT NOW

And since the vast majority of the Russian people do not want a single-party-system or a return to Soviet times yet don’t believe in (western style) democracy, Russian intellectuals would be well advised to take a very close and careful look at what I would call the “Iranian model”, not to simply copy it, but to see what aspects of this model could be adapted to Russian realities. Historical Russia was an Orthodox monarchy. That time is gone and will never return. Soviet Russia was a Marxist atheistic state. That time is also forever gone. Modern Russia can only find references, lessons and implications in her past, but she cannot simply resurrect Czarist or Communist Russia. Of course, neither can she reject her entire history and declare it all “bad” (which is what Russian “liberals” always do, which explains why they are so hated).

I don’t know what the future Russia will look like. I am not even totally sure that this new Russia will ever really happen (though my gut feeling is that it will). I hope that it will, but whether that happens or not will not be decided in China or by China (or any other country). To conclude on a famous quote by Karl Marx “the emancipation of the workers must be the work of the workers themselves” (in Russian: “Освобождение рабочих должно быть делом самих рабочих”) which a famous Russian 1928 book turned into “the salvation of those who are drowning has to be the action of those drowning” (in Russian: “Спасение утопающих — дело рук самих утопающих”). Whatever version you prefer (I prefer the 2nd one), the meaning is clear: you need to solve your problems by yourself or with those who share that problem with you. In other words, Russians are the only ones who can save or destroy the Russian nation (I mean “Russian” in the traditional, Russian, multi-ethnic and multi-religious meaning of the words руссий and российский which in traditional Russian are both interchangeable or different depending on the context).

PS: I leave you with a photo which, imho, speaks a thousand words

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: China, Iran, Neoliberalism, Russia 
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  1. Adrian E. says:

    Russia and China certainly play an important role for each other, and it is obvious that Western strategists are aware of this.

    We sometimes hear about (rather delusional) ideas that Russia should be wooed to the Western camp in order to contain China.

    But I think that China is also relevant for the opposite Western attitude, the extreme hostility towards Russia that has been escalated in recent years, in particular after the coup in Ukraine in 2014.

    Certainly, also Russia as such bothers Western strategists who want to uphold Western predominance. They dislike any country that does not subordinate to their will, and Russia has lots of resources Western countries would like to exploit.

    But still I have doubts whether that alone is enough for explaining this extreme Western hostility towards Russia in recent years which has quite a lot of detrimental effects on Western Europe. I think the most plausible explanation is that Western strategists see quite clearly that any hopes of upholding Western predominance will be an illusion when Chinese economic development goes on for one or two more decades. Then, a stage will be reached when Western sanctions simply will not work any more. I suppose the escalated Western hostility towards Russia was a last-ditch attempt to prevent this development. Western strategists acknowledged that at the current stage, China needs Russia, and the only hope of stopping China would be for pro-Western forces to take power in Russia and strangulate China economically. For instance, if Western countries both dominated the Middle East and Russia, China might have difficulties getting enough energy – it is a leading power in renewable energies, but at the moment, it would still be difficult to rely on them (and domestic coal) alone. If a pro-Western anti-Chinese regime was installed in Siberia, this would create a difficult situation for China for many reasons. These Western strategists probably thought that Russia was the weaker partner and that their only hope of upholding worldwide predominance would be the subjugation of Russia. Around 2014, there were many (in my view rather ignorant) Western analyses according to which Russia is likely to disintegrate in the next decade. Some probably even thought that the sanctions they introduced in 2014 could be enough for preparing Russia first for regime change and then for a disintegration of the country after which Western forces would have taken power of the pieces.

    Obviously, Russia is much more stable than these strategists thought. I think that already now we can say with relatively high confidence that these plans of upholding Western dominance are doomed.

    I also think that Western propaganda is probably not very effective in Russia. The 90es and highly unpopular pro-Western figures provide a kind of vaccination.

    Certainly, the president has a very strong role in Russia, which might under certain circumstances be a weakness if a wrong person is elected in the future. This strong presidential system was created for Yeltsin with Western support because, apart from Yeltsin, the disastrous Western economic policies did not have much support in Russia. Then, Putin managed to turn the situation around, using the strong role of the president that had previously been installed for opposite purposes.

    Of course, it is difficult to predict what will happen, but by now, it is hardly only Putin who stands in the way of Western dreams of plunging Russia into chaos again and subordinating it to the West. Russia is ideologically diverse, which is in my view a good thing, and within this diversity, Yeltsin-like forces (Soros allies, oligarchs like Khodorkovsky) luckily have a very weak position, although they have some support among a minority of economic elites in Russia.

  2. Russia, third Rome, is an “idea in the mind of God.”

    Her mother is the Theotokos, Matron of the body of Christ.

    Russia will not save herself, but in and through Christ.

    Cпаси и сохрани.

  3. The death of the U.S. Dollar is certain if not immanent. The AZ Empire is in steep decline and the dollar is it’s last remaining strength. What happens to the China Russia alliance when the United States is no longer a threat? Who cares? The alliance will have been successful in its most essential mission. It will have preserved it’s sovereignty against the intentions of Western Globalists. Namely, to rule the world by force of arms.

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @Alfred
  4. @SeekerofthePresence

    Holy Orthodox Church, Hope of the World…

  5. Yee says:

    “Can Russia (Or Iran) Survive Without China?”

    Yes. Both Russia and Iran can be autarky if forced to. Both have land, resources, basic agriculture and industrial systems. That’s what you need for survival, albeit it’d be hard life. Same for China.

    But that’s without taking into consideration how successful the US can stirring up unrest in difficult times.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  6. bluedog says:
    @Adrian E.

    A very good post Thank You..The only question I have that the Saker didn’t touch on was the Russian military leadership,which I doubt would go along with any thing that could/would be destructive to the new Russia.!!!

  7. dei budei says:

    There’s an additional, crucial factor: Russia has institutionalized international best practices for duty-bearing states:

    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Indicators/Pages/HRIndicatorsIndex.aspx

    and in particular, acceptance of individual complaints procedures,

    https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/HRIndicators/IndividualCommunications_map.xls

    which are enshrined in constitution Article 46(3). Ratified international treaties take precedence over conflicting domestic legislation. Article 17 of Russia’s constitution anchors domestic law in generally recognized principles and norms of international law, as the core human rights instruments require.

    If the US tried coercive intervention again, sustained good-faith interpretation of human rights commitments means individual citizens could go over the next Yeltsin’s head to treaty bodies and charter bodies. The entire world could exert countervailing pressure on a US-style puppet government.

    Most importantly, the Russia people like the result, with the current Russian government earning approval and respect that US kleptocrats can scarcely dream of. Without such protections, the US regime is much easier to knock over: just take over the CIA/DO and you’re in charge.

  8. Sean says:

    a photo which, imho, speaks a thousand words

    Yes, Xi is surprisingly large. And he is going to be ten feet tall before he stops growing.

    • LOL: Rabbitnexus
    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    , @Powjeet
  9. FB says: • Website
    @Adrian E.

    The problem with the entirely silly what-if scenarios you paint is that you talk about ‘western predominance’…as if that is something that actually exists…

    It’s like talking about booking a cruise on the Titanic…or is it a tad late…?

  10. Half-Jap says:

    Even though both Russia and China have been empires in the past, I strongly believe that both of these countries have entered a “post-imperial phase” in which the trappings of empire have been replaced by an acute sense that empires are extremely bad not only for the nations which it oppresses, but also for the nation which hosts it.

    I would not be alone in wondering aloud about when, oh when, China will release those component nations and stop being the most recent incarnation of the empires that preceded it, instead of employing various means of oppression coupled with tireless efforts to keep the economy growing. 😛

  11. Half-Jap says:

    IT seems that Russia, Iran and China all are capable of surviving on their own.
    And then I lost the train of thought (work intervened lol). Anybody else get that?

    Ah, came back to me.

    Being so capable, it seems they can play the long game and wait for the anglo-zio empire to collapse under its own weight. It further appears that at least Russia can make separate trading arrangements and ignore that empire completely without much loss, after initial adjustment (China might, but it really needs every penny to keep econ going).

  12. Seraphim says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    Russia is under the ‘Pokrov’ of the Mother of God from her very birth. The rabidly anti-Christian atheist ‘West’ cannot comprehend this simple fact, understood even by Stalin who exhibited (like all Tsars before him in times of great danger for Russia) the icons of the ‘Mighty leader in battle’ (voevod pobeaditelnaya) Mother of God to the battlefronts. One of the most poignant scenes in the Bondarchuk’s ‘War and Peace’ is the scene of the procession of the Icon of the Mother of God of Smolensk on the eve of the battle of Borodino (very flatly described in Tolstoy’s novel and perfunctorily shown in Western productions). And the film was ‘state-approved’ in what was still the officially atheistic Soviet Union.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  13. Alfred says:
    @WorkingClass

    The death of the U.S. Dollar is certain if not immanent.

    Not so quickly my friend!

    The current much misunderstood and misreported Repro Crisis is actually an European crisis. Banks have lost trust in the big banks of Europe and will no longer accept their collateral. The Fed is trying to rescue the banks of Europe in an underhand way.

    Understanding the Repro Crisis (Martin Armstrong)

    As soon as the coin has dropped, the wealthy of Europe will move their funds to the USA – it is already happening. When these funds leave the Euro and Sterling for the USA, the US dollar will strengthen dramatically. The same thing happened prior to WW1 and WW2.

    Sterling is already heading for the toilet and will be worth less than the dollar in due course.

    Of course the above does not mean that the dollar is not doomed eventually. But a lot will happen between now and then.

    • Agree: Beckow
    • Replies: @HammerJack
    , @Beckow
  14. As a believer in a multipolar world — as opposed to the world since 1991 — I live in dread of what might occur after Putin. A rerun of Yeltsin is too much to even contemplate….

  15. @Alfred

    I think you are correct. Race to the bottom.

  16. If Putin is replaced by another Yeltsin then that Yeltsin will be replaced by another Putin. The cycle will go until Russians do not see a threat from the West. Constant attrition will only lead to Armageddon. The strength of any common cause is the threat of a common enemy.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  17. ” . . . immense and powerful Russian bureaucracy and find somewhere a new generation of men and women who could be both effective and trusted.”

    A deep state in Russia, say it ain’t so.

    Laughing.

    (I am less a fan of that meaning of deep state than most – but as posited, your descriptions sound appropos)

    • Replies: @Robjil
  18. @Adrian E.

    The thing i find most comical about the “lets pull Russia to the west to contain China” crowd is they act as if Russia and China dont read the NY Times and watch Meet the Press. Their leadership are not stupid. The whole poimt of the China and Russian rapprochement is the acknowledgment that they both lost influence when their partnership fell apart in the 50’s. Both are very different countries today. But when they saw what happened in Afghanistan they immediately formed the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to make sure jihadists dont slip in among the Chechens amd Uighurs and czuse too much havoc. So these same people get it wrong. They think this supposedly new friendship is the result of Crimea related sanctions but that is false. That only sped it up. Financially – economicall – security wise they already started joining. NDB (bank) BRICS and the SCO were already operating! I wonder what planet some of these “experts” live on.

  19. Russia will not survive, and those who think there is hope in the Russian Orthodox Church are simply banging their heads against a wall. Russia is a failing country and is, once again, on the same path as the USSR was on in the late 70s through the fall of the USSR.

    • LOL: bluedog, Alfred
    • Troll: Seraphim, Herald, Tom Welsh
  20. By the by, Saker, Russia Today and Sputnik belong to Putin’s regime. They are his Pravda and Izvestia.

  21. @peter mcloughlin

    And that is ome weaknessez of “democracy”. Too many vacillations because of the “feelings” of the electorate. Putin is crafty in that regard. Russians realized that while flawed he represents the best interest of most Russians. The same same can be said of China. Take away the sanctions and you couod probably say the same of Iran.

  22. Seraphim says:
    @Adrian E.

    You seem to be totally unaware of the existence of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) which functions successfully and grows steadily for twenty years already, of the Eurasian Economic Union (EEU), of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO).
    You seem to believe that a ‘revolution’ in Russia is still possible and the ‘Soroses’ have more power than the ‘deep state’ of Russia. This is sort of magical thinking. Because your only source of information is the disinformation MSM, dominated by a bunch of insanely ‘Russophobic’ Ukrainian and Polish Jews, specialists in ‘perception management’. They don’t like what they see and therefore don’t talk about to keep up the ‘morale’ of their ‘true believers’. Out of sight, out of mind.
    The danger is when they take their wishful thinking as realities and design their policies according to it.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  23. Begemot says:
    @Quartermaster

    You spent too much time sniffing whiteout and boot polish in the warehouses you worked in, Quartermaster. Being a supply sergeant doesn’t give you perspective on geopolitics, just boot laces and mess kits.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  24. Is the state of the Russian legal system fairly depicted in the movie “Leviathan”?

    • Replies: @Plato's Dream
  25. Saker, A truly wonderful, and inspiring hope, article — THANK YOU!

  26. @Quartermaster

    After bloody Borodino, winter closed on antiChrist,
    As the two-fold sea upon Pharaoh, showing the arm of Christ.

  27. @Seraphim

    Thank you so much for the lead on Bondarchuk’s ‘War and Peace.’
    Just ordered it, which will be Thanksgiving dessert.

    Amazing that Soviet atheism could be more pious than Western secularism.

    Apparently the Russian commanders and priests foresaw that the following day would be one of terrible carnage. So they processed Our Lady of Smolensk as a most powerful “cover” for the troops. The Russians responded with ferocious tenacity and courage, as they do today under Putin.

    Under the shield of the Mother of God,
    His people found life in the Cross they trod.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and to all the UR readers and contributors.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Brown Boiii
  28. Seraphim says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    ‘Blagodarim gospoda’. “I will give thanks to the Lord according to his righteousness; I will sing to the name of the Lord most high”.
    A powerful spiritual exercise is reciting the ‘Akathist Hymn of the Mother of God’:
    “Unto you, O Theotokos, invincible Champion, your City, in thanksgiving ascribes the victory for the deliverance from sufferings. And having your might unassailable, free us from all dangers, so that we may cry unto you:
    Rejoice, O Bride unweded”.
    The City was Constantinople attacked by the still pagan Varangians/Russian, and saved when the Patriarch Photius dipped into the waters of the Golden Horn the Veil of the Mother of God kept in the Church of Blachernae, which provoked a storm that destroyed the fleet of the Russians. The miracle had such an effect upon the Russians, that their leaders converted putting the foundation of the Church in Russia, completed by Saint Vladimir.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  29. As much as I would like to see the China-Russia-Iran triumvirate succeed in taking down the Ziocons of the West, I am skeptical. People vote with their feet. All around me in the US I hear mandarin and Russian spoken. Chinese and Russians continue to immigrate to the West in droves, suggesting that Western propaganda – the combination of Hollywood, Silicon Valley and western consumerism, is just too strong for the ordinary Chinese/Russian to resist. While the top brass in those countries are well aware of the treacheries of the Zionist West, even many among them are quietly stealing and stashing away wealth and secretly transferring that wealth to the West to pave their way here eventually.

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @Anonymous
  30. Miro23 says:

    “Putin The Man”, urgently needs to be replaced by “Putin The System”, but that is truly a herculean task because that means reforming/purging most of the immense and powerful Russian bureaucracy and find somewhere a new generation of men and women who could be both effective and trusted

    This is his job. No one else can do it. And it needs a clear exposition, that everyone can understand, of how any why the system works. When the key points are clear then there’s a Code that can be passed through generations.

    The Code of the Anglo world for example, was never sufficiently defined, and turned out to be too weak/not there in the face of the Zio-Glob SJW assault.

  31. Miro23 says:

    Finally, history teaches us that every time that Russia is weak or disunited, the western powers immediately pounce and intervene, including with military means. The Poles are still dreaming about yet another chance to prove Churchill’s diagnosis about Poland true and pounce on both the Ukraine and Russia if given the chance.

    Saker writes good articles – but on Poland he’s a fantasist.

    The Poles are dreaming about having a normal life for once, after having their country dismembered over the centuries by Imperial Germany and Russia and finally extinguished completely. It struggled back to life after WW1 only to be destroyed/looted by extreme Nazi racists and Russian Jewish Bolsheviks. As it happens, it was also flattened in WW2 with Stalin going on to subjugate it by introducing his own Soviet Polish Jewish leadership that lasted until the 1960’s.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alfred
  32. Miro23 says:

    Both Russia and China have paid a horrendous price for their imperial years and both Russia and China completely understand that the people of the US are also amongst the prime victims of the (transnational) Anglo-Zionist Empire, even if that is all too often forgotten. Not only do they not want to repeat their own mistakes, they see the US dying in the quicksands of imperialism and the last thing they want is to jump in and join the US.

    Very true. I think that this is the background to their cooperation.

  33. Beckow says:
    @Alfred

    No fiat currency can exist forever, but there is a lot of middle ground. During times of international uncertainty and escalating conflicts (like now), there is a natural flight to safety, and that still means dollar and US assets. US is the global Switzerland of old.

    EU missed the window of opportunity in 2005-15 because it had inept leaders or leaders chosen from the outside (Washington). EU is thus becoming a quasi-Latin American appendage to North America; an occasional rebellion and even defiance, rhetoric, folklore, but it no longer has a core to stand on. Currency and assets will follow, as they did in Latin America. Another example of this imperial deference is Japan, more focused and better internally managed than EU, but similar. (We have seen the future of Brussels and Paris, and it is in Buenos Aires and Lima.)

    US is also going through internal changes and the overlords for the hapless Europeans are not the actual Trumpist government, but among the sinecured underlings in all the endless institutions who still think that they have a God-given right to rule. But there are too many deep fissures, in the past we would just have a war. No wonder the elites are desperately trying for the restoration of the status quo ante, with new, ‘fresh’ faces, and better propaganda. But as Ceasar observed, once alea acta est, the dice rolls on its own.

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Alfred
  34. Tom Welsh says:
    @Sean

    Mr Xi is quite tall – but surprisingly gentle.

    IMHO what the Russians, the Chinese and the Iranians share is preeminently an attitude of “live and let live”. Rather than being driven by any prescriptive ideology, they seem content to do what seems most sensible in the light of mature and well-informed consideration.

    That accounts for their mutual friendship. As The Saker points out, that friendship is probably stronger than NATO or any old-fashioned alliance, in that it is based on a continuing awareness that friendship is best for all concerned. They help one another because they can clearly see, from moment to moment, that helping one another is also the best for themselves.

    Which, if you think about it, was one of Christ’s most powerful messages. “Love thy brother as thyself”.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  35. Tom Welsh says:

    “It is a sort of democracy in which the majority of the people do not believe in democracy”.

    Yes, that makes sense – oddly enough.

    Surely, on reflection, we would all agree that NO intelligent and educated person can “believe in democracy” – especially as it is practiced in the West.

    Aristotle, for example, would laugh if he heard the American system called “democracy”. He clearly stated that any system involving elections is plutocracy, because the wealthy will buy votes (by one means or another).

    Only a system where officials are chosen by lot would be a true democracy, according to Aristotle.

    In the West we have what is called “representative democracy”, for which the most persuasive apologia was advanced by Edmund Burke. The theory is that the people, being too busy to concern themselves with the details of government, and too ill-informed to do so wisely, should choose one or more candidates to “represent” them in government.

    Two important points are of the essence here:

    1. The candidates for election consist of a closed pool chosen by unelected elites.

    2. Once elected, the representatives can run the government any way they wish.

    Each of those points is sufficient, alone, to make a mockery of the claim for such a system to be “democracy”. Combined, they ensure that hidden elites can run the government as they wish, with virtually no interference on the part of the ordinary citizens. Yet those ordinary citizens remain content, believing innocently that they are the beneficiaries of “democracy”.

  36. Tom Welsh says:

    Having just read Vincent Cronin’s excellent biography of Napoleon Bonaparte, I see a lot of parallels between him and Mr Putin. (If you still believe all the British lies about how Napoleon was just a bloodstained tyrant driven by ambition, I recommend Cronin’s book as a corrective).

    Specifically: Napoleon was a highly intelligent, principled person who, above all, wanted to right wrongs and see everyone treated as well as possible. Equality was his passion.

    Having been educated as a soldier, he naturally resorted to force whenever necessary – which, with all the monarchies of Europe trying to overthrow the French Republic, was often. Yet, according to Cronin, that astonishing string of huge victories was merely a sideshow; left to his own devices, Napoleon would be found spending ten hours and more a day at his desk, reforming France and as much of Europe as he had control of.

    That was a perfect example of what The Saker describes in the case of Mr Putin: a single man trying to embody his values in a new and permanent system.

    Napoleon was overthrown by violence, and many of his reforms were dismantled by the returning Bourbons. Yet his legal improvements – the Code Napoleon – and many others have bettered the lot of humanity to this day.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    , @Wally
  37. Another positive development that will enhance Chinese/Russian (Iran?) symbiosis is the decline of the American “empire”.

  38. Tom Welsh says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Another famous historical figure who very much resembled Mr Putin in some ways was Alexander the Great. He too used military force to make his vast conquests. But, once enthroned as Great King of the Persian Empire, he worked all the hours that God gave – often 18 hours a day – trying to reconcile Macedonian with Persian, Greek with Indian, Egyptian with Jew, and so on. It has been seriously suggested by scholars (such as Arnold Toynbee) that Alexander, in his brief reign, laid the critically important foundations of Hellenism throughout South-Western Asia and Egypt.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  39. Robjil says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    A good deep state Russia has.

    The US and Europe has a sinister, termite like deep state that cares not one whit for the majority of its citizens.

    It only cares about a little nation in the E. Med.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  40. @Fran Macadam

    No. Leviathan is a caricature. There are many problems within the Russian justice system but it’s like comparing mumps and the plague.

    • Replies: @Fran Macadam
  41. Edgar Cayce said that Russia would return to Christianity and become a great nation and this is becoming true. Russia has been blessed with Putin leadership and in my opinion he is the greatest leader on the world stage!

    By the way , since 2016 Russia has become the largest grain producer in the world!

    Now the zionst- bolshevik – communists are in control of America and are destroying this once great nation, this is what zionists aka bolshevik – communist do, they wreck and destroy nations and we are getting the bolshevik treatment, God help us , we are going to need it!

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Z-man
  42. @Yee

    Let’s be frank about your scenario. If the 3 countries listed are all cut off and become self sustaining (that is assuming it can done) I can bet you anything like the Hong Kong riots would be put down within days if not in hours. In which all the leaders would be dead and there would be no western journalist there to record and twist it. Doubt there would be no pro west news outlet left alive in these countries if full decoupling is achieved.

    Look at what happens when HK have full access by western propaganda, it really does work for 80% of the stupid who don’t know what they want.

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @AnonFromTN
  43. Good article. I hope Russia and China move ahead successfully. This is coming from someone mired in the depradations of the West who has tried to create a small intellectual and spiritual sphere within the quagmire, but still cognizant that I am sinking along with the ship.

  44. awry says:
    @Yee

    But that’s without taking into consideration how successful the US can stirring up unrest in difficult times.

    I don’t think that active measures by the US are even needed for this. Sure, they do their part often, but it wouldn’t work without the dissatisfaction of parts of the local population, usually the more educated, urban, Westernized part who look to the West as a role model, crave a Western lifestyle, try to imitate it as much as possible. Of course the most attractive thing about the West is its material wealth, but its culture spread by Western movies, TV shows, music, internet sites are attractive too (partly because it is associated with wealth, but also with freedom, it may be that Westerners have been disillusioned with their freedom, they no longer value it, as the current growing popularity of totalitarian Leftist (now often in the disguise of “we must save the environment, stop climate change” etc.) ideas among Western Millennials shows (this is not new either, it was similar in the ’60s and the interwar era, just now it is not (overt) Stalinism or Maoism, but “wokeness”).

  45. All countries of the world should work toward economic self sufficiency.
    More economically is the country self sufficient less vulnerable is the country to international bankers manipulations.
    From all those three countries only Russia has the all preconditions to total economic self sufficiency.
    But China and Iran working together with certain cooperation from India could be also economically self sufficient.

  46. Wally says:
    @Miro23

    said:
    ” It struggled back to life after WW1 only to be destroyed/looted by extreme Nazi racists …”

    For which you have no proof, only propaganda and curious wishful thinking.

    Poland is hardly innocent:

    – Poland threatened to attack Lithuania.
    – Poland invaded and annexed parts of Czechoslovakia, held large parts of German territory, was engaged in atrocities against German civilians.
    recommended:
    Why Germany Invaded Poland, by John Wear: http://inconvenienthistory.com/11/1/6391
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

  47. Wally says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Is that why Napoleon declared himself Emperor?

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  48. @Adrian E.

    moron, hostility towards Russia grew not after “coup” of 2014 (uprising against tyranny of Donbass cartel and communists really) not after coup of pro-Russian Yanukovich who turned democracy into fascist regime but after occupation of territories of sovereign countries: Georgia and Ukraine(having
    sovereignty guarantees for giving up 3-d largest nuclear arsenal ).

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  49. Alfred says:
    @Miro23

    The Poles are dreaming about having a normal life for once

    That has always been the wish of ordinary people everywhere. Sadly, the leadership of Poland is entirely corrupt – like before WW2. They have made themselves a target of Russia.

    “The United States demonstratively neglected the provisions of the INF treaty when deploying launchers in Romania and Poland,” Putin said, referring to NATO missile defense systems in Romania and a U.S. proposal to place them in Poland.

    Any sensible person will realize that these missiles do not protect Poland in any shape or form. They merely ensure that in any nuclear conflagration Poland will suffer before the USA.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @HallParvey
  50. Alfred says:
    @Beckow

    EU missed the window of opportunity in 2005-15

    My apologies. I beg to disagree.

    The actual structure of the Euro is at fault. It could never have become a reserve currency because the debts of all nations using the Euro are not consolidated like in the USA. That is why some years ago everyone wanted to swap Euro notes printed elsewhere for Euro notes printed in Germany. 🙂

    The Rise & Fall of the Euro (Martin Armstrong)

  51. @Adrian E.

    Much of what you say is true but almost paints the west as rational thinking politicians, when in fact they are a bunch of psychopaths straight out of a Hollywood Dr. Strangelove movie. Long live the alliance between Russia, China & Iran.

  52. Arioch says:
    @Tired of Not Winning

    I wonder if what you say is the drain – or a polarisation.
    Those are, i guess, people who initially were Western by spirit, and who only tolerated living in Russia dreaming the liberal pipe dream of 1980-s where Russia evolves into Little America, and Western civilization happily embraces her, that Prodigal Daughter of Europe.
    It did not happen. We all were made to decide which is primary and secondary, when you can not have both.

    The people you describe decided that their primary was in being westerners and living in the West. They picked their lives up and moved them to where they belong. I wish them well there, wish them becoming good Americans, good Frenches, good Germans, etc.
    Meanwhile the Russia more and more says “good riddance”, as with every westerner-by-spirit finally making their mind and moving west – the mixture of Russia’s people becomes less and less pro-Western.

    You may say that those people fled were the most inventive, creative and so forth (so Russia would miss them badly). Some of those surely are. But at large…. Berezovsky was claiming to be the most powerful man in Russia and was definitely one of richest ones. In UK he was killed as a hopeless debtor having no chances to ever pay his loans back. Chichvarkin was owning Russia-wide shops network – in UK he is a small-scale single shop owner. Perhaps there are some huge success stories i missed, but not many.

  53. Agent76 says:

    They are already on the move and we will find out in the not to distant future.

    June 8, 2019 China-Russia Partnership Threatens US Global Hegemony

    Big power rivalry is heading into very dangerous waters. The rise of China as an economic and military superpower is threatening the global hegemony of the United States. Russia has been pushed into an increasingly tighter relationship with China to balance the attempts by the West to isolate it.

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/06/china-russia-partnership-threatens-us-global-hegemony.html

    Jul 4, 2019 Despite US Pressure Russia Strengthens Oil & Gas Cooperation With Iran And Vows For More Support

    Russia and Iran intend to increase their bilateral commodity trade. After the first four months of this year, this index amounted to around $700 million, and states still have goals to achieve.

    2019-04-20 Russia’s Ambassador To China Strongly Hinted At Moscow’s Interest In N-CPEC+

    The Russian Ambassador to China’s latest statement of intent to pursue the integration of Beijing’s Belt & Road Initiative (BRI) with the Moscow-led economic and security structures in Central Asia strongly hints at the Eurasian Great Power’s interest in N-CPEC+ as the most viable way for bringing this about.

    https://eurasiafuture.com/2019/04/20/russias-ambassador-to-china-strongly-hinted-at-moscows-interest-in-n-cpec/

  54. Arioch says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I would concur. HK is very useful for China, just like Ukraine for Russia.
    It is a vivid demonstration, and with people very close to yourself, what obeying western orders brings.
    You wanna listen to ‘Murican sirens? – tells Beijing to mainland Chinese – See how doing so end with mindless destruction of your home city with no any positive programme.

    So, no, HK would not be downed in blood. HK would still be cultivated as the vaccine

  55. Eighthman says:

    The US is far too prejudiced against Russians to ever allow real friendship or practical agreement. The media speaks about Russians today with nearly the same invective as the way blacks were spoken of under Jim Crow. It’s disgusting.

    The US picked a fight with possibly the most autarkic power that has ever existed on earth. And their independence grows every year with sanctions pushing them.

    Iran is being pushed by sanctions into building their economy away from mostly pumping oil – as with increases of petrochemical production.

    I don’t see how the Dollar avoids a big decline (along with US power) if major trading nations avoid using it. Enormous dollar reserves can pile up but lose value if the cross border trade use drops.

  56. Let’s start with linguistics. The closest English word to Russian “liberast” is “libtard”. BTW, “pédéraste” is a French word, and it’s pretty neutral in French.

    I disagree that the Empire can defeat China. Nobody can do that. Their strengths are many, not least of them a huge territory and an enormous number of people. Yet the latter is also its weakness: 1.5 billion people want to eat regularly, and China cannot produce enough food for them all. It does not have enough water for the production of necessary amount of food. Economically, militarily, and in terms of natural resources Russia and China complement each other. The Saker is right that both can get much more from the other through friendly relations than through war.

    Yes, it is smart that Russian state does not suppress Western propaganda. This propaganda became so hapless, so idiotic, so much of self-parody, that nobody can undermine Western narrative more than that narrative undermines itself. Ukraine also turned out very useful for the Kremlin: it embodies everything the people do not want, in a grotesque from. But Russian official propaganda is overusing it. The fact that Empire-controlled Ukraine is such a disgusting wreck does not mean that everything Russian government does is good. A pension reform is an apt example: it was designed to minimize state expenditure, so that the state does not need to tax the mega-thieves more. That’s exactly how the populace sees it. That’s exactly why it is so unpopular.

    The greatest Russian vulnerability is that too much depends on Putin personally. I do not think that another traitorous scum like Gorby or Yeltsin can come to power: too many people remember the horrors of the 1990s vividly. Besides, the popular Russian attitude to the West in general soured. In the 1990s that scum cheated the populace sincerely believing in advantages of capitalism and Western democracy. That belief is dead. The greatest danger is that Putin will be succeeded by a nationalist (or Eurasian Integrationist, using Saker’s term) who turns out to be significantly dumber than Putin and not as far-sighted. Rogosin is an example of that – Russia certainly does not need this kind of leader. But yes, the succession is the greatest issue, and inadequate succession is the greatest danger.

    TV ads are, indeed, very much US-like. But I’d look at a wider problem: today Russian TV became incredibly stupid, almost as stupid as the US networks. Like in the US, most TV programs are designed for the viewers with the IQ smaller than their shoe size. Compared to that, Soviet TV was highly stimulating intellectually. Maybe Russia needs a channel or two that is directly financed by the government, to counteract what the self-financing channels inevitably become.

    Finally, Iran. I don’t think that it is an example to follow. Yes, Iranian society is a lot more democratic that the Empire or any of its vassals (in the sense that the interests and opinions of the majority affect state policy), but that bar is way too low. Russia is a multi-national and multi-confessional country, and imposing Iranian single-mindedness would turn it into a wreck, like Ukraine. In fact, Singapore, despite its minuscule size, might be a more adequate model to scrutinize.

  57. @AnonymousUkr

    So what? Would Ukraine use Nukes on Donbas?
    Azov battalion did murder all leadership of Party of regions. Burned to death 42 worker who resisted fascist putsch in Odessa. (very democratic moves of new “Democratic government.)
    So how about claim that Russia is in war with Ukraine?
    According to latest report from war zone, I am deducting that some Russian population of Ukraine did start PARTIZAN WARFARE on on fascist units.
    Even with your pea brain (the same as US democrats) you should realize that Ukraine is not monolithic country, and population is prevalent Russian.
    After all (you probably have no clue) Pugachev was Russian.

  58. Powjeet says:
    @Sean

    The lead image is a photoshop, with Xi Jinping’s head superimposed on Erdogan’s.

    https://tineye.com/search/0bb0281fc50cb44f27e07b06a3fd1555ca5e665f?page=1

  59. @Astuteobservor II

    In a way, Chinese government uses HK like the Kremlin uses Ukraine: as an example to parade before its own people what happens when you become a subservient vassal of the Empire. I am almost sure that Chinese government is satisfied that HK people themselves speed up its demise: it was losing the competition with Shanghai and other places in mainland China for years, but that process would’ve taken another 10-20 years, whereas HK “protests” will destroy HK competitiveness ten
    times faster.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  60. The Mullas are in deep shit and rightly so for they have created a ruling elite of their own kind .

    The street battles in minority populated areas , Ahwaz(Arab) and Kermanshah(Kudish) and the uprising against sectarianism and corruption in Iraq, created by the Mullas, is an indication of worst to come for the ruthless Persian theocratic Mafia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  61. @AnonFromTN

    This joke might be useful for Westerners to show the true attitude of the great majority of Russians to Gorby:
    – Why Gorby is still alive?
    – The devils refuse to accept him in Hell. They are afraid that he will ruin it all.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  62. @AnonFromTN

    Here is the reality!
    Hong Kong did function as a middleman between western customers and Chinese sweat shops.
    But eventually western agencies begin to deal directly with Chinese producers.
    Hong Kong did have a sweet deal earning their cut on deals.
    Now the lake of profits for H K is a dry land.
    Usefulness of HK for China is zero now.
    China should give back HK to England. But I have a serious doubt that England would want them.
    But in my opinion is that China should help HK a little economically to show their gratefulness.
    But China is capitalist now and these sort of things do not happen in Capitalist society.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  63. @AnonFromTN

    I do think that you are cruel to Gorby.
    Only Gorby’s guilt is that he was naive, He did trust western negotiators to keep their word.
    Even Putin is slightly inclined to trust the west.
    Russians are very sincere and naive people.
    Only good thing about Russians that they are arming themselves to the teeth.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  64. Tom Welsh says:
    @Wally

    “Is that why Napoleon declared himself Emperor?”

    Interesting story, that. Most of my life I believed the “offical” story that it was because he was an ambitious, bloodthirsty tyrant, etc.

    According to Cronin, the precipitating cause was an attempt to murder Napoleon with a huge bomb. As the conspirators – who were proven to be funded and controlled by London – were incompetent amateurs, they merely blew up about 100 Parisian civilians including women and children. The secret service reported that more such attempts were to be expected, and one critical remark they reported was to the effect that killing Napoleon would lead to the restoration of the Bourbons, as he had no successor (as First Consul and effective dictator).

    So Napoleon, on advice from many of his political supporters and colleagues, decided to get successors as soon as possible. The first step was to declare himself Emperor – which made hardly any practical difference – and the second was to divorce Josephine (whom he still loved passionately) in order to marry a legitimate monarchical heiress.

    After several disappointments, he married Marie Louise, daughter of the Austrian Emperor Franz II. She actually provided him with an heir, Napoléon François Joseph Charles Bonaparte, on 20th March 1811.

    “When Napoleon I tried to abdicate on 4 April 1814, he said that his son would rule as emperor. However, the coalition victors refused to acknowledge his son as successor, and Napoleon I was forced to abdicate unconditionally some days later. Although Napoleon II never actually ruled France, he was briefly the titular Emperor of the French in 1815 after the second fall of his father. When his cousin Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte became the next emperor by founding the Second French Empire in 1852, he called himself Napoleon III to acknowledge Napoleon II and his brief reign”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_II

    History records that Napoleon II died in Vienna at the age of 21, of pneumonia and tuberculosis. Oddly enough, immediately after his 21st birthday, when he came of age and might have aspired to an active political role. Nowadays, with all the many people who are alleged to have died of natural causes but who are actually murdered, we might be a little more suspicious.

    Napoleon’s plan to be succeeded by his son might have worked if Marie Louise had had a little more courage, and if virtually all of Napoleon’s supporters and allies had not betrayed him the moment he fell.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  65. nsa says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “disagree that the empire can defeat China. Their strengths are many…huge territory…..enormous population”
    You forgot the two most important factors…….homogeneous population and no jews.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  66. Tom Welsh says:
    @Alfred

    The idea that Russia would need or wish to steal used Ukrainian marine toilets is curious.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  67. annamaria says:
    @Yee

    Agree.
    “Six Conflicting Global Projects,” by Thierry Meyssan: https://www.voltairenet.org/article208316.html

  68. Beckow says:

    I didn’t mean just the Euro situation. Euro it is badly structured, but also badly managed. In the years 2005-15 Europe folded – in 2003-4 there was France-Germany opposing Iraq and the leaders were still recognisably European. Then the rebels get pushed aside or punished (Villepin), warmongers like Blair were rewarded by voters, and mad fanatics from eastern Europe were allowed to set policy.

    Then austerity set in – the neo-liberal elite dream world of no reward and all punishment. And Europe as an alternative collapsed. Now the elites are fighting phantom ‘populists’ and their solution to the recent problems is better propaganda and outright censorship. As all ideologues when things don’t go their way they see subversion and foreign influence everywhere.

  69. @NegroPantera

    Do you really believe it? Or are you paid to believe this BS? Just curious.

  70. Eighthman says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I think your comment about the ineffectiveness of anti-Russian propaganda to be very perceptive. That and attempts to paint the decay of Ukraine as anything but a general victory for Russia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  71. @Eighthman

    I wouldn’t count the decay of Ukraine as a victory of Russia, except in a sense that any defeat of the Empire and its vassals is a Russian victory. I do think that Russia would have been better off with independent and successful Ukraine, but Ukraine lost its chance to become a country (unless one counts basket cases, like Somalia, as countries). Maybe that’s because I am partial: I am half-Ukrainian, I was born in Ukraine, I also grew up there, although the city I grew up in is now the capital of Lugansk People’s Republic, which will never go back to Ukraine (no matter what Putin says or Russia does: nobody voluntarily returns to a madhouse). Yes, Ukraine is an example of what happens to a country when the Empire “brings democracy” to it. Somalia, Afghanistan, and Libya are other examples. In that sense the inglorious demise of Ukraine is a success of all anti-imperial forces, including Russia, China, Iran, etc. It’s a great loss for the population of Ukraine, though, where many Russian citizens (myself included) have close relatives.

    • Agree: Robjil
  72. Seraphim says:
    @Tom Welsh

    “Napoleon” (as the inevitable consequence of the French Revolution) was defeated (for a while) by the ‘Dancing Congress’ conducted by the Leader of the dance, Tsar Alexander I. All subsequent history is the race to unravel the Congress System.

  73. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Russia aims for deployment of the nuclear armed and powered Burevestnik cruise missile by 2025. With unlimited range and duration, it will be a Sword of Damocles over the Western powers, especially command centers and nuclear launch facilities. Together with hypersonic weapons, it will be an effective counter to the growing Western threat of a nuclear first strike against Russia.

    The Democrats are becoming a glorified war Party, cloaking themselves in egalitarianism and wokeism. The “witness” lineup for Schiff’s impeachment party were rabid russophobes who could only confirm Russia’s worst apprehensions about ‘Murika’s bellicose intentions. Eventually, based simply on demographics, this war party will become its sole functioning political party. Therefore Russia must stay technologically ahead of her rival with the countervailing threat of instantaneous and devastating response.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  74. Z-man says:
    @DESERT FOX

    The Zionist- Bolshevik –communists are keeping Russia (Putin) and America (Trump) apart. Christian Russia and ‘nominally’ Christian America are natural allies but the Neocons and other serpents that infest DC and Trump’s own administration sabotage this. It is their number one goal even more so than the protection of that dirty little entity called Izrahell.

    PS. Hell, Trump has serpents in his own family!

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  75. Arioch says:
    @AnonFromTN

    > defeat China. Nobody can do that. Their strengths are many, not least of them a huge territory and an enormous number of people.

    …and here we go again, talking about terms 😀

    If by “defeat” you would mean occupying the whole of Chinese territory and eradicating every single Chinese, some absolute finality – then you probably is correct.

    However, if it will be enough to pillage China, to rip eveyrthing you want regardless if China wants it or not, then that was already done. By European powers during Opium Wars, and by Japan during WW2. Sure, Chinese mounted some riots here and there, had some nationalistic mafia gangs. But the occupying powers mantained their grip over resources they wanted and did not care about the rest of population and land. And if it will not be for Japan’s own defeat at the hands of USA and USSR – i do not think Chinese would manage to shake Japanese rule off.

    So, while having large area and population is definitely plus for a war, but that alone would not prevent defeat. Because, as we know, it did not in the past. It is exactly “other strengths” that hopefully are making it impossible today.

    > today Russian TV became incredibly stupid…. Soviet TV was highly stimulating intellectually.

    Times are changing. In Soviet times there was no internet.
    Soviets could not indulge in forum arguments like we do today.
    Ok, late USSR had FIDO net, but it was only with small minority having computers and modems.
    And it was nothing comparing to today mundane ability of whatching FullHD video streaming in.

    So, TV just changed the “target audience”. The people who would like those “stimulating” programmes on TV 50 years ago – today freely find intellectual challenges **of their own tastes and choices** online. They will hardly come back to TV, because one-size-fits-all nation-wide schedule is just too limiting.

    Yes, TV today is dumb. Because only dumb people still watch it that much, as everyone did in Soviet times.

    > Maybe Russia needs a channel or two that is directly financed by the government,

    Like the 5th channel, TV Culture ? I am not sure it is very popular.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  76. Arioch says:
    @nsa

    No Jews in China? Are you sure?

    Japan was saving European Jews from Hitler smuggling them to southern China.
    Some of those probably moved away after WW2, but some probably chosen to remain 😀

    • Replies: @Wally
  77. Baron says:

    The speculative argument advanced by Saker sounds reasonable, but not a word in the piece about Germany’s EU (currently the largest if rather disjointed world player) linking up with Russia. That’s the natural coupling for the Old Continent, preventing it has also been the only aim of US Foreign policy for Europe since WW2.

    Unless Putin succeeds in finding a suitable successor, it will be the communist cum Liberals who will take over, the recent Moscow Duma election has furnished the hint, the likes of Navalny have no chance at all, not even in Moscow, St Petersburg, other large cities.

    The dollar will lose its reserve status to a Bitcoin lookalike. For it to happen, the world needs a deeper meltdown than what hit us in 2008. The question isn’t whether but when that happens.

    The biggest mistake of the American governing elite including the Donald is the belief that kicking all and sundry will strengthen the Republic’s survival. Wrong this, no empire has ever survived perpetually fighting its enemies, the Ottoman Empire lasted the longest because it made more deals than wars.

  78. @Z-man

    Agree, It is my opinion that Kushner is a Mossad agent. I don’t know if you have read these books and if not, I highly recommend Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen and By Way of Deception by ex Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky, both show the snakes that America is infested with!

    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  79. @Seraphim

    Blagodarim gospoda

    Thanks very much again for the Akathist Hymn and account of Photius’ saving the City.

    Akathist is one to learn by heart.

    Photius was a great intellect of Church history and, I believe, one of the first to warn against the spiritual direction the West was heading in. Have tried to get books on him, but it seems few have been translated.

    Visit to Russia has much to do my coming to the Orthodox faith. Saw the relics of St. Sergius, never had such an experience of the surrounding Presence of God. A fount of Living Waters is the Church. Glory to the Lord God forever.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  80. @SeekerofthePresence

    It does look to me that Russian designers should rethink the conceptual design.
    They should design the rocket to have two parts. one part with motor driven by regular fuel that would bring the rocket to safe height, Decouple it and ignite the nuclear drive at safe height.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  81. Z-man says:
    @DESERT FOX

    Thanks for the reading suggestions.

  82. @DESERT FOX

    Ostrovsky means man from island.

  83. Arioch says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    What if conventional engine fails, and the rocket with nuclear engine in it just crashes from miles above ?

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  84. @Plato's Dream

    I really asked this of Saker due to his credibility. I really don’t know about yours one way or the other or how you know. However, reports were that Russian Orthodox officials from the region depicted had concurred that the problems with officials failing to follow the law were accurate.

  85. Seraphim says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    “My heart rejoiced and my tongue exulted”.
    “Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance”.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  86. Jake Dee says:

    “Putin The Man”, urgently needs to be replaced by “Putin The System”, but that is truly a herculean task because that means reforming/purging most of the immense and powerful Russian bureaucracy and find somewhere a new generation of men and women who could be both effective and trusted.

    One element that you may have over looked here is the large number of young Russian students currently studying in China. Xinhua states 19,00 in 2019 and that number is only going to increase.

    These young people aren’t all studying politics and philosophy (though no doubt some are) but a cross cultural hybridization of some sort is inevitable. We are not going to go back to the days of Leninist party discipline but a patriotic crypto-confucianist civil service and managerial class is a definite possibility.

  87. @Arioch

    It was done a lot more times before. China has the worst track record among large civilized nations at defending their sovereignty.
    As a people, chinese have a glass jaw.
    They are smart and cultured but internally weak. The country also has tendency to get into times of troubles that last centuries.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  88. @Arioch

    Aim of rocket trajectory is to go through north pole. With slight incline it would fall into ocean.
    So the damage will happen but considerably it will be less.

  89. Wally says:
    @Arioch

    said:
    “Japan was saving European Jews from Hitler smuggling them to southern China.”

    – Really?

    – Says who?

    – “Saving them” from what?

    • Replies: @Arioch
  90. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    It has to be a mistake right? You wrote give back HK to UK.

    I think China would push every single HK resident into the Pacific ocean before it would give away a piece of its land again.

    Modern China is not dying qing China.

  91. “The truth is that at this point the AngloZionist propaganda in Russia.”

    Don’t underestimate the power of the media, nor the forces behind the anti-Russia movement. They’re both ancient and proven. That said, there’s a growing movement here in the states among men and woman who want to get back to God, land and nationalism. They want traditional families, more than 2 children, and are tired of television, the trans movement, public education, politics, and war. More and more we’re awakening to the fact we are governed by organized crime. Thanks to the net we can connect with each other and support one another. So there’s light at the end of the tunne;. We’ll see.

  92. @Seraphim

    Amen and Amen.

    Found “Homilies of Photius,” recent Amazon listing, will be ordering asap.

    His wisdom, I believe, is needed in a time of confusion among the churches. Jesus’ words to the seven churches call for repentance.

    His joy and light endure.

  93. Arioch says:
    @Wally

    Really. From war, concentration camps and pogroms (one of Baltic States even earned 100% Juden Frei badge). But you may believe in Chinese magic that made Chinese borders impenetrable for Jews

  94. @Sergey Krieger

    That comment doesnt make much sense since they have been around longer than any other large nation. So maybe being smart and cultured is more important than military might then…??? The Mongols took over China and eventually got absorbed by China. Same with the Jurchen/Manchurians. In their history nobody else has taken them over. The west was able to take pieces – but could never tak all of China even with more advancex weapons. Japan saw that and tried it too… Didnt work. In fact it ruined Japan’s plams for domination of the Pacific because they spent so much man and machine power trying to invade the whole of China. It was a wrong move in the same way Hitler tried it with Russia.
    Even after that the US and alllies thought because of the glass jaw they could cross the Yalu River during the Korean War. How did that work? Didnt seem too glass then. Why? By 1950 they were basically unified – except Taiwan
    The Chinese have a saying that roughly means that after a long time together the nation will fall apart and after a long time apart the nation will join together again. If that pattern holds you have at least another century from now of unity.
    Sun Yat sen was the revolutionary who ended the Qing dynasty. To use the biblical term he u derstood that a dividex house cannot stand. One of his 3 main tenets and the prime one was natjonalism. The Nationalists could never bring all the warlords down from their fiefdoms. Couldnt stop Russian i fluence in Xinajiang. The commmunists were later able to. Thats why the people turned to Mao rather than Chiang and acknowledge d the “mandate of heaven” go be with the CCP. Sun Yat Sen though not a commu is stilll honored in China. His burial place is still prominent.

  95. @Tom Welsh

    I have to say that Russia is way ahead of the former Soviet Union in terms of propaganda. As it turns out, FSB documented the handover of Ukrainian ships, and Ukrainian representatives signed that everything was in place. What’s more, FSB made a video of every part of each ship and of the signing of handover documents. Best of all, FSB first allowed everyone in Ukraine and some of its suzerains to lie their heads off, and then published those videos. Cruel and ingenious.

  96. annamaria says:
    @Seraphim

    “… the only source of information is the disinformation MSM, dominated by a bunch of insanely ‘Russophobic’ Ukrainian and Polish Jews, specialists in ‘perception management…”

    — Unfortunately, it seems that such a flagship of higher education in Russia as Moscow University suffers a susceptibility to the “disinformation MSM.”
    Hard to believe, but Moscovite intelligentsia defends (“progressively,” of course) the Monsanto’s GMO and Nuland’s putsch in Ukraine because Putin is “bad” and because Moscovite “progressives” always know better. Browder, Nemtsov, and Khodorkovsky are the saintly models for this kind of “intelligentsia.” The fledglings of Soros.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  97. @annamaria

    This is the kind of “intelligentsia” that Lenin called “shit of the nation”. For once, he was right.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  98. @AnonFromTN

    He was right a lot more than that, but it depends upon what various people consider right.
    He was right about cadres policy too, the one that eventually led to various Gorbachovs, Eltsin, yakovlevs and so forth accumulating at the very top.
    Considering with how many unknowns he was operating and how he dealt with them it is difficult to think he was wrong many times.
    Revolution alone with victory in civil war is a huge right.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  99. @Sergey Krieger

    In my view, the cadre policy was one of the greatest weaknesses of the Soviet system. The very fact that scum like Gorby, Yeltsin, Yakovlev, and many others of their ilk got to the top attests to that.

    Revolution was an easier part: everybody was afraid to take responsibility, while Bolsheviks dared. Arguably, the greatest scoring point that brought Bolsheviks the victory in the war (which was no more than 50% Civil, with at least 50% being direct aggression of other countries against Russia) was the promise to give peasants land, which Bolsheviks “borrowed” from SRs (Socialist Revolutionaries). But Lenin was a genius tactician. When silly communist ideas of egalitarian money-free society came into conflict with reality, he instituted New Economic Policy with strong financial system. Abandoning it and subsequent “collectivization” was a huge hit on the economy, one of the greatest Stalin’s miscalculations. Stalin was right to exterminate “ideologues” at the top he inherited from Lenin, but wrong to replace them with obsequious nonentities, one of which was Khrushchev.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  100. Anonymous[607] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tired of Not Winning

    The USA is the #1 country for immigrants.
    Russia is #2.
    Just saying…

  101. Ruminator says:

    China fought the Korean war to prevent US forces from appearing on its doorstep. It has been backing North Korea as a buffer state ever since.

    By the same token, could China ever allow a Western takeover of Russia?

    Would it not have to walk in and take over Siberia all the way to the Urals?

    Siberia has a population of just a few tens of millions. These people, mostly white Russians, are not very militant and would not put up much of a resistance. China could easily impose itself on them or simply drive them out.

    And large parts of Siberia are geographically much less connected to the rest of Russia than they are to China.

    China would have to pay a huge cost if it ever took over Siberia. The West would sanction it to the hilt. But gaining Siberia and everything it brings might be worth it if only to preserve China as such.

    Siberia is Chinas’s natural backyard. Russia sitting in Siberia instead is a historical accident brought about by gunpowder-fueled expansion during a period of Chinese isolationism.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Showmethereal
    , @Arioch
  102. Ruminator says:

    Might Putin be grooming his mathematician daughter to succeed him? Next to nothing is known about his other daughter but the one who obtained a PhD in mathematics at Moscow State University must at least be intelligent. She already assumed a slightly public role in becoming the director of some kind of innovation hub. (She is also the one who appeared at acrobatic dancing competitions. A gifted woman to say the least.)

    And then there seem to be at least two as yet unacknowledged sons from his probable relationship to a former top gymnast.

  103. Miro23 says:
    @Alfred

    Any sensible person will realize that these missiles do not protect Poland in any shape or form. They merely ensure that in any nuclear conflagration Poland will suffer before the USA.

    Agreed. These missiles are an exceptionally bad idea.

    The problem is that the Polish Right is living in the past. Reagan and Thatcher are long gone. The present US is a entirely different place – more of a hard line Zio-Glob/Antifa worldwide troublemaker.

    Poland needs to get on the right side – fade the US and try building links with the new Russia.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  104. Smith says:

    Me?

    I think Russia and China will immediately go devour each other the moment America steps out of the picture.

    Iran seems to be insignificant to be compared to the other two.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  105. Robjil says:
    @Ruminator

    Siberia is Russia’s backyard too.

    The Taiga, the endless evergreen forest, starts in European Russia and continues all the way to the Bering Sea.

    There is no Taiga in China.

    Thus, Siberia is naturally Russia’s backyard more so than China’s.

  106. @Ruminator

    I think younare referring to the Far East rather than Siberia. Siberia is more closely tied the Ce ntral Asian “stans” while the Far East was tied to Mongolia/China/Japan. But i doubt the western takeover of Russia becomes reality. Its about as like as China and Japan becoming. Western Europe and the Balkans still arent close with each other – so I dont get why people have the idea. Same skin color doesnt cure all. That is true on any continent.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  107. Learner says:

    Very interesting analysis of the status quo.

  108. Learner says:

    A very interesting article.

  109. @Miro23

    Every Polak is born hysterical. But you have to forgive them. Through all history Poland was a battlefield between Russians and Germans. Russians and Germans kept dividing Poland like forever.
    No wander they were looking for outside help. England before and now USA.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  110. @Showmethereal

    This theorizing is rather pointless. The US cannot defeat Russia militarily. That’s what makes neocons livid. If you think NATO, there is one meaningful force in NATO, the US army. All the other “armies” are a joke. The only military significance of the other NATO members is to provide locations for the US bases.

    Russia and China conduct remarkably pragmatic policies. There is no formal alliance because such an alliance would be unnatural. The only reason they tend to act together and support each other is totally insane US policy. However, both countries appreciate that they can get a lot more from one another by being friendly than by war.

    As far as the situation on the ground goes, it is essentially the same in Siberia and the Far East. There are relatively few people there, but Russians outnumber all Asiatic locals put together. Besides, those tiny nations are afraid of Han Chinese a lot more than of Russians.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  111. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Every Polak is born hysterical

    I disagree. I know quite a few Poles, and they are all perfectly normal. Of course, my sample is hardly representative: all Poles I know are scientists.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  112. d dan says:

    The author writes:

    “They will never get from the other side by war what they could get by peaceful exchange.”

    This is generally true for all nations and ALL FORMS of war today. Even if you can defeat enemy totally (a very expensive undertaking) like against Japanese in WW2, it will be hard to extract enough war bounty to compensate the loses.

    It is such a self-evident statement and yet still escapes so many Americans testifies to their enormous ego. Many still believe that militarily, a small or even medium countries can be bully into submission, and that economically, everyone including China, can be “defeated” through trade wars or sanctions.

    “…in a one-on-one war against the US[,] China would definitely lose, especially if the US goes “all out””

    I disagree with the author here. There are too many factors and uncertainty in a war, e.g. whether it is a land-based war or naval war, and where the location is. And of course, what the definition of “winning” means.

    In a land-based war in Asian, for example, I bet that China will likely win, due to numerically superiority, logistical and supply line, air cover, or even popular support, etc. In a naval war around Asia like South China Sea, China also has high chance of winning because of its land-based support.

    So the author’s assertion that China would “definitely lose” is too sweeping a statement, even if US “goes all out”.

  113. @Tom Welsh

    They help one another because they can clearly see, from moment to moment, that helping one another is also the best for themselves.

    Wow. Just like the Amish.

    They tried to perfect the world with Communism, and failed. People are still imperfect, so live and let live makes a lot of sense.

  114. @Alfred

    Any sensible person will realize that these missiles do not protect Poland in any shape or form. They merely ensure that in any nuclear conflagration Poland will suffer before the USA.

    But not by much.

  115. @Begemot

    A Quartermaster in the Navy is a Navigator. Unlike Saker, I’m far from lost.

  116. @Tom Welsh

    It’s more than “seriously suggested.” It’s a fact that is still reverberating.

  117. @Robjil

    Putinist Russia has a deep state. Putin is the face of it, and the Russian mafia makes up the rest.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @annamaria
  118. @Quartermaster

    Welcome! It was very boring w/o trolls. A dumb troll is funnier than stand-up comedy.

  119. Seraphim says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Poles know subconsciously that despite their cockish attitude towards Russia, the Russians always kicked their asses badly when they were strutting and trying to punch above their weight, and that they would do it again if necessary. There are of cours,e also sane and realistic people among them.

  120. @AnonFromTN

    It was first attempt. The major monkey wrentch eventually was the war. It wasted the best people, time and resources and eventually stalin had no time or health left. Regarding modern Russia, people up there are considerably worse. The thing is that they do not proclaim any good intentions. They are scum but they did not promise good life for everyone. Just for few and they successfully created communism for those few at the expense of everyone else.

    Btw, I am sure Lenin would get rid of many himself, but without killing them. Lenin had authority and gravitas to do many things bloodlessly for which stalin had to shed blood.. stalin did not have that authority like linin until much later hence all those struggles.he also inherited Lenin’s people who were picked by Lenin and could be handled only by Lenin. Stalin picked own people but they all betrayed him after his death.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  121. @AnonFromTN

    I know that is what makes NATO mad. That is why they dont like Putin – because he revamped the military. But I think you were replying tl the wromg person… I dont believe there evermwas or ever will be full European unity – which is why the talk doesnt make sense.
    To your other point – Im not sure which tiny countries you refer to and why they would be “afraid” of Han Chinese. The Han never colonized the “stans”… Maybe there is racial hatred – but “fear”? For what? Its kind of like the interview last year with the leader of Malaysia and he was asked if he was “fearful” of China’s military build up. He said they have been our neighbor for many centuries and never colonized us – in contrast to the British. He just put it more tactfully than Duterte of the Phillipines put it. Other than India (which historically is not the case) and Japan – nobody else fears the Han Chinese. Everyone knows their military build up is for the same reason Putin quickly revamped Russia’s
    But I digress to my original point that Siberia is closer to Central Asia while the Russian Far East is a different region. In the same way you say Michigan is west of NY… But it is the midwest region… That is completely different than “the western US” which would be California and Oregon etc.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  122. @Showmethereal

    There are growing anti-Chinese feelings at the grassroots in the -stans, but that’s their problem and that’s not what I meant. I meant small Asian nations inhabiting Siberia and the Far East, such as Yakuts, Buryats, Tuva, etc., who don’t have their independent countries, only autonomous republics within the Russian Federation. They, while fellow Asians from European perspective, fear Han a lot more than they fear Russians.

    In general, Malaysian PM was right: there are more reasons to fear Europeans than Chinese. I was in Peru recently and found that many centuries ago Spanish “civilizers” did exactly what modern “democratizers” do: steal everything they can and ruin everything they cannot steal. Russian Empire, as well as its successors the USSR and RF, use a different strategy: they were and are a lot more inclusive, treating all subjects as humans. Modern China has issues with Uighurs and Tibetans, which, although blown way out of proportion by the Empire and its vassals, are real. While in the RF tensions between locals and Russians exist in many national areas, they are a lot less intense.

  123. @Sergey Krieger

    Stalin picked own people but they all betrayed him after his death

    In my book, this means that he picked wrong people.

    Regarding modern Russia, people up there are considerably worse.

    I don’t have first-hand knowledge, as I didn’t live in Russia for 28 years. Based on what I know from friends and relatives living in Russia, and from my observations during three visits there, Russia and the majority of its population is doing much better now than it did in the USSR times. Russia got rid of a lot of parasites, “brotherly” republics in the USSR and “brotherly” Eastern European satellites. I agree that modern oligarchs are thieves and parasites, but apparently they suck a lot less blood out of Russia than previous parasites.

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  124. Boris Yeltsin was more like a dunce than a whore for as a harlot he would have left billions behind for his daughter but turned out he apparently didn’t and what saved your Russia is a shitload of nuclear weapons… even if western arsenal was smarter, the world wouldn’t have survived all those out of date but still harmful missiles.

  125. What a cock and bull story about the Iranian success… the Indo-European Iranians were Zoroastrians and now what you see is that ethnic Persians religiously ruled by black-turbaned ayatollahs, descended from Mohammed the semite. Just imagine if the Arabs had not polluted the culture that produced Cyrus the Great where they would be in the modern world!

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Showmethereal
  126. @Really No Shit

    That might be true. I can add that Persians even lost their writing system, and now use Arabic instead. But there is the other side of this coin: your regrets are more than a millennium too late. If one considers the progression from the US-installed obsequious Shah to current power structure in Iran, it is a success of sorts. Not that I’d like to live in a religion-dominated country, but even Ayatollahs are better than another pathetic US puppet.

  127. Yes, a millennium is a long time but Greeks and Persians were advanced for their times and if the dog eat dog, it sounds so terrible, semitic creeds had not encroached on them, things might have gone in more positive direction, leaving the Shah aside.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  128. @Really No Shit

    Well, if we go back millennia, Greeks were crushed and conquered first by Alexander the Great, then by Romans. Later Romans were crushed by the internal corruption of their Empire, which enabled barbarians’ victory. Still, in terms of longevity, the Roman Empire was never surpassed in Europe or elsewhere (each of many successive Chinese Empires lived less than the Roman one). Now we are likely witnessing the downfall of the shortest-lived Empire, which is being destroyed by internal corruption and hubris even as we speak.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  129. Arioch says:
    @Ruminator

    > China … has been backing North Korea as a buffer state ever since.

    > China … have to walk in and take over Siberia all the way to the Urals?

    You have to make your mind if China needs a buffer state (that is by definition NOT China) or new lands to occupy and make China.

    If China needs a buffer state – it should find and grow separatists in those Far East parts of Russia. And split them from Russian state. And pump them up enough to contain any Russian assault.

    Or maybe China needs those forests with ugly climate for her own people? Afteral some Chinese think Baikal Lake was originally Chinese proper. Well, then China would not get any “buffer” but would instead be immediately bordering that very now very angry and ressentimental Russia.

    You just can not have both.

  130. Arioch says:
    @Smith

    Why then didn’t USSR and China “devour one another” when China was America’s willing lapdog in 1960-s and 1970-s ?

    • Replies: @Smith
  131. @AnonFromTN

    Something wrong.
    Alexanders father Philip was pure Greek but his wife was Slavic.
    So Alexander was actually half breed.
    There was no united Greece at that time. Greece consisted of many individual kingdoms.
    Alexander got from Greece kingdoms at the beginning of his campaign against Persian rule eight thousand trained Greek warriors. Alexander got his own army of seven thousand from which about five hundred were Greeks, and the rest were Macedonians. (Slavs.)
    Greeks were never conquered by Alexander. But he united all Greeks under his rule with his military victories.
    Greeks accepted him as a supreme ruler.
    He was never crowned as a King of Greece.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  132. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Alexander wasn’t crowned the king of Greece because such an entity did not exist. But he was the first person in history who ruled the whole Greece.

  133. Anon[565] • Disclaimer says:

    Russia & Iran will not survive the Anglos-Zionists empire onslaught via the same old CIA playbook, economic strangling to stir people’s resentment (as both nations are energy export dependent), for a color revolution.

    When the West sanctioned Russia, its structural economy weakness was immediately exposed, leading to social instability. That’s why ambitious Putin been so intoxicated by G8 membership, was shocked awaken to reality. He had to quickly made a U-turn to beg China for huge energy deals to save its economy from collapse. Months before, Putin was still proudly rejecting China’s oil & gas pipeline proposals, courting Japs for a $5B investment instead. Russia would has imploded under economic crisis and West asymmetrical warfare, including instigated color revolution, diplomat isolation & quagmire in Ukraine/ Middle East crisis.

    Iran’s economy already in deep trouble now under US extreme sanction regime. Without China resisting US threat to buy much of its oil and investing heavily, Iran’s economy would have cracked and destabilized with widespread color revolution riots. EU, Jp & India have all proved their zero credibility by dumping Iran like hot potato upon US threat. Only China alone has proved itself to be Iran’s dependable & capable ally in true crisis.

  134. @Anon

    Please do not overestimate China.
    China is fully dependent on US. The reason is that US is from consumer side ONE TIME USE THROWAWAY SOCIETY.
    This type of society did not develop in Europe, and as a mater of fact did not developed nowhere in the world.
    So if China want to penetrate European and other markets must reorient its production from cheap shit, to make durable lasting products. That means China has to complete retool its production.
    Even if they will do it they will meet strong competition.
    Russia has not much competition for what it sells and Russia will always some have ability to replace imbalance in trade by natural resources.

    • Replies: @Anon
  135. annamaria says:
    @Quartermaster

    The Ukrainian lady Q doth protest too much: https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-government-has-been-run-as-a-criminal-enterprise-financial-fraud-criminal-cash-flows/5623955
    Financial expert and investment advisor Catherine Austin Fitts:

    The U.S. economy is deeply dependent on criminal cash flows. We’re the global leader in money laundering. … The U.S. Government has been run as a criminal enterprise, and I have documented and proved that on multiple occasions. The swamp that exists in Washington is from sea to shining sea.

    Comparing Yeltsin’s miserable years with the quasi-miraculous recovery of the Russian state during the post-Yeltsyn period: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/08/19/long-read-russias-economy-under-putin-in-numbers-a66924

    There was no growth under Yeltsin. The economy contracted for a decade. …
    GDP growth in 2000 was 10% as the economy bounced back from the crash — a record yet to be beaten. The two crises in 2008 and 2014 were major shocks to the economy. … It is hard to overemphasize the change in the hardships of the 1990s to the relative prosperity of today. …

    The population may be shrinking but life expectancies have recovered and are now at an all-time high, higher than at any time in the Soviet Union as well.

  136. Anon[480] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I don’t overestimate 5000yrs civilization China, nor underestimate a great fighter race Russia, nor the great Persian civilization Iran. But we need to study their history, and current integrated strength/weakness to understand realistically.

    Russia has a screwed up economy, that Putin squandered the opportunity to restructure in his 20yrs ruling. It has everything to surpass Jp in development. Iran is very well developed with its great people, but simply too small to resist AnglosZionists thousands cuts strangling for obstructing Israel Yinon expansion plan.

    China took the same path of industrialization that others took, but in unseen breakneck speed. UK, German, Jap, US, SK..all did the same, starting from low end polluting industries copying, gradually upgraded to highest end innovation.

    Its only 40yrs since Deng open up China, and already China is leading in many fields now. Its patent filings is higher than next Top9 nations combined, with Huawei as world No.1 company in IP filing.

    If China can produce best iPhone 10yrs ago, which Steve Jobs & Tim Cook openly told Obama no other country can replace China, not even US, you will think China can’t produce better state of arts products. Its Chinese way of careful developing pace, as to feed 1400M people, provide jobs & needs for social stability before moving up supply chain.

    Just look at Huawei leading telcomm products, 5G, best smart phones, Chinese best drones, CCTV, space, supercomputer, …you will understand why Trumps admin is so hysteria to use entire States power to ban these best Chinese companies.

    China develop according to its own 100yrs plan. After centuries of Manchuria Qing dynasty oppressing ruling & series of devastating wars(opium wars, jap invasion, civil wars), newly founded PRC was left with 400M Chinese, at which 93% was illiterate in extreme poverty.

    Within 40yrs, 700M has already been alleviated from poverty, with 30M more to go. Prez Xi will declare no more extreme poverty in 2020, meeting Deng’s Xiaokang milestone. Today China has 98% literacy, PISA top ranking, 6.5% sustainable growth, a middle income population larger than US, a PPP GDP larger than US since 2014, a $6.7T consumption market surpassing US this year, global No.1 mfg, trade partner, etc.

    Read Godfree Roberts writings, and below if you want to better understand China. These info are heavily censored by US-UK-India lying axis dominating all English media. Its a loss that Unz didn’t publish these great writings for everyone. Ron is very narrow in his scope.

    [MORE]

    Godfree Roberts
    https://www.quora.com/profile/Godfree-Roberts

    Read what a Cambridge uni PhD Chinese is saying about real China.
    https://www.quora.com/profile/Janus-Dongye-Qimeng

    Robin Daverman, indepth writings on China & geopolitics.
    https://www.quora.com/profile/Robin-Daverman

    Thomas Edward, geopolitics research banned by quora, FB,…

    Which country, if any, is poised to become the next superpower?
    https://www.quora.com/Which-country-if-any-is-poised-to-become-the-next-superpower/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    Why is China rebalancing its economy towards consumption & service?
    https://www.quora.com/Why-is-China-rebalancing-its-economy-towards-consumption-service/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    Can China be successful in rebalancing its economy towards services and consumption?
    https://www.quora.com/Can-China-be-successful-in-rebalancing-its-economy-towards-services-and-consumption/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    Chinese graying population
    https://www.quora.com/With-Chinas-graying-population-can-we-expect-to-see-the-Chinese-economy-suffer-as-a-consequence-in-the-future-Or-will-they-be-able-to-avoid-the-negative-repercussions/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    Will China rule the World
    https://www.quora.com/Will-China-rule-the-world-in-the-next-two-decades/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    Made in China 2025 that Trumps want to kill in his trade deal.
    https://www.quora.com/Everyone-at-first-thought-Made-in-China-2025-list-was-a-joke-But-recent-events-suggest-otherwise-Can-China-actually-do-it-Can-China-really-make-its-own-aeroplanes-semiconductors-electric-cars-etc-by-2025-just-5/

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  137. @AnonFromTN

    Can you elaborate on that? Which ones were the most parasitic? Some say after Khrushchev denounced Stalin, many of those Eastern European satellites revolted too and then Khrushchev send tanks to suppress the uprising in Hungary, that idiot.

    What about Molotov, Malenkov, Kaganovich, didn’t they try to stage a coup against Khrushchev in 1957, which failed out of some intercession of Zhukov. Didn’t Molotov advocate Stalinism for the rest of his life? He died as late as 1986 if I remember correctly?

    By the way, the Chinese Left also hates Deng Xiaoping and Chinese economic reforms, they think it a wealth redistribution to the kids of elites and their cronies disguised as “reform and opening up.” Deng Xiaoping also came to power by coup. He conspired some mass protest at Tiananmen in 1976 before Mao died and for that reason Mao dismissed him again. But afterwards, he and Ye Jianying were able to take over Hua Guofeng, who was Mao’s designated successor.

    Founder of Huawei was an engineer in the army up to 1982, when they slashed funding and had a mass layoff. In an interview, he spoke of how he had difficulty adjusting to the market economy.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  138. @Anon

    Yes! You are correct. But all that progress was not only facilitated but was only possible by half trillion yearly trade gains from US, which China invested in its economy.

  139. @gmachine1729

    Most of this was before my time. I know that in 1956 there were revolts in several Eastern European countries, the most significant one in Hungary. I am not saying that everything Khrushchev did was right, I have very low opinion of him, but I am pretty sure that in 1956 any Soviet leader would have forcibly suppressed any revolt in Hungary. See, it was just 11 years after WWII, where Hungary was Hitler’s ally. What’s more, Hungarian troops had a reputation of being even more brutal to civilians in the occupied territories than Germans. Net result was, Soviet troops took Germans and Italians prisoner, but did not take Hungarians and Russian traitors: both were shot on sight, despite official orders not to do so.

    To the best of my knowledge, Mao was wrong many times. His Great Leap Forward was a huge failure, so big that he unleashed Cultural Revolution to cover it up. To the best of my knowledge, Cultural Revolution was a national catastrophe in China. I am sure Deng’s reforms are no less controversial than Mao’s rule. People often forget than things come in a package. On the one hand, after reforms China started developing rapidly, and by now more people were lifted out of poverty than in all Mao years. On the other hand, the reforms resulted in widespread corruption and obscene material inequality in China. Considering where China was in the 1960s and where it is today, the reforms appear to be a success. I am sure this success was achieved at a huge price, like Stalin’s industrialization in the USSR.

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  140. @AnonFromTN

    Yeah, well, my point was that his denouncing Stalin made it so much easier for protests in Eastern Europeans countries to happen.

    As for the Great Leap Forward, it’s unclear how much of it was Mao versus others. Mao was not directly managing. It was Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping and also corrupt, dishonest, incompetent officials at lower levels actually directly managing. As for unleashing Cultural Revolution, what was there to cover up for Mao himself? He was just one man at the very top. He wanted to get rid of capitalist roaders high up in the party, and instead of basically ordering that Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping resign, which he could have, he used the open criticism method. Actually, Liu and Deng organized work units and Red Guard units to steer the Cultural Revolution to a different direction, tried to steer the attacks towards intellectuals, former capitalists and landlords. But eventually, people figured out what they were trying to do and they were purged. So by 1968 the power change in the government as a result of that was pretty much complete.

    I wouldn’t regard Cultural Revolution as “national catastrophe.” The disruptive part only lasted for 2 years. Economic productivity went down due to power struggles in the workplaces. After that, people got back to work again. One thing is that they cancelled the college entrance exams and many college age kids then ended up working in the countryside. They were sent there much because Mao and the Party lost control of the Red Guards. The recommendation system for college afterwards was certainly quite problematic. The college entrance exam was restored in 1977 or 1978, and then your political background wasn’t taken into account with regard to admission. So in 1978 you had college students ranging from age 15 to age 30.

    Some people claim that science and technology came to a halt in China during the cultural revolution, pointing to the closure of universities (from 1966-68) and cancellation of gaokao. That’s bullshit because the people actually doing the important work are older, not college age kids. Sure, it resulted in some delay in training people for the next generation.

    By the way, in 1973, China had this “43 million dollar initiative,” which 43 million dollars worth of imports of high technology from the West. It was mostly chemical industry stuff. Founder of Huawei Ren Zhengfei did chemical engineering work in Northeast China in 70s in this “Liaoyang Synthetic Fiber Plant.” He spoke of it in some interview that was actually broadcast in Western media with some footage. The place was 30-40 degrees below zero in the winter. Interestingly, he said he had difficulty adapting to the market economy after he was laid off in 1982, he was fired from his second job, after which he started Huawei.

    Some adults in China say that the Cultural Revolution made it harder for the pro-West traitors to come back to power afterwards. As I said, Deng Xiaoping and Ye Jianying came to power by coup. Mao did not Deng Xiaoping back in power at all. China only got rid of food stamps in 1989. There were some high up people in the Chinese government (Hu Qiaomu, Deng Liqun) who were opposed to the reforms but they did not succeed in stopping them. https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/29/obituaries/hu-qiaomu-a-chinese-hard-liner-is-dead-at-81.html

    This lifted out of poverty stuff is ambiguous because what counts as poverty is rather ambiguous. You know what, like 60% of Alibaba’s stock is owned by Japanese and American companies. Jack Ma pretty much took foreign investment, put a ton of Chinese retailers out of business, and in the process transferred much money to Japan and America. Ask yourself why the Chinese government forced him to retire. People with ties to Chinese government told me that if he didn’t retire, he’d probably end up in jail. Also, he has ties to Western media and NGOs and world leaders. Hong Kong based SCMP which is banned in China was acquired by Alibaba, and the content didn’t even change. Reforms were not *that* successful. It literally ruined Northeast China which was one of the more developed areas in China in 1980 where the industry was located. Millions of workers out of job after their heavy industry products were not longer as much in demand after Chinese economy began purchasing more from Japan, America. The places which benefitted the most were Guangdong (close to Hong Kong) and coastal areas like Jiangsu and Zhejiang which were more open to trade. It was much at the expense of much of the rest of China. Of course, superficially, standard of living improved with time (as it should, especially in a poor country rapidly developing) just about everywhere. But you know what, now in China so many people are also in a ton of debt because the government stopped providing real estate pretty much for free. They only do that now to people in certain government organizations, like the space program. So this salary and monetary figure stuff is very misleading. The numbers show more, but before people didn’t need to take on a mortgage.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Showmethereal
  141. @gmachine1729

    That’s exactly what I mean by saying that things always come in a package, where desired components are inevitably combined with undesired. People in Russia found that out the hard way. Say, I paid for a one-bedroom apartment 8.47 rubles per month, which was very low even at my 143 rubles monthly salary of an entry-level scientist. Nowhere in the US one can find a one-bedroom apartment for less than 6% of an entry-level salary. Say, for my post-docs that would mean an apartment for less than $240 monthly – totally impossible even in Nashville, not to mention real cities like NYC, SF, or Boston. Besides, education and health care were free, and childcare and food were also ridiculously cheap. Now Russians have to pay a lot more for rent and childcare, as well as pay for healthcare and higher education (although a lot less than the outrageous prices common in the US). On the downside, it was very hard to obtain registration (прописка in Russian) in many cities, whereas now you can rent or buy an apartment anywhere and get registered there. For many food items you had to wait in line, some high-quality foods were really scarce. Now the choice of available luxury foods (such as smoked red fish, or high-end sausage) in an ordinary supermarket in a provincial town is greater than in an upscale store in NY. Going abroad was a big deal, it involved recommendation from your local party committee (even if you weren’t a member of the party, which I never was) and an interview at the regional party committee. Now more than 5% of Russian residents go abroad every year. This percentage is likely higher than in the US, even if you count pathetic Canada as abroad.

    Overall, my impression is that the living standards in Russia went way up in the last ~20 years, having surpassed Soviet levels years ago. This is reflected in life expectancy, which also surpassed the highest Soviet achievement. In terms of real living standards, Russians are now in the top 15% in the world, possibly even in the top 10%. But nowadays if you lose your job (or any other source of income), you can easily lose everything, whereas in Soviet times you could never lose the basics. Everything comes at a price, with every change in society someone wins and someone loses.

  142. @Really No Shit

    Iranians are not Arabs. You actually might be surprised – do you know when and how the scientific method came about. Many people who speak Arabic are not ethnic Arabs either. People make that mistake too often.

  143. @gmachine1729

    People in China are in a ton of debt??? Household debt in China is less than OECD nations and it still has among the highest household savings in the world.
    Also i am not sure ahat you are saying??? You are saying they should have propped up inefficient industries in the northeast???
    Btw – Chengdu is now the major driver of new growth. Not the mature coastal areas.

  144. @Anon

    Russia had already joined the BRICS group before bing kicked out of the G8. The Crimea sanctions just accelerated the process. BRICS already had their own bank and were starting to make loans in their own currencies – outisde of the US dollar. Its called the New Developmemt Bank. US sanctions again have only accelerated the usage of that new bank… But it was already active.

  145. @Showmethereal

    Iranians are the rule, rather than an exception. Most Muslims in the world are not Arabs. Even Shia Arabs in Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Syria (Alawites) are not your typical Arabs: when they shoot, they hit the target. Whereas typical Sunni Arabs can only hit the target with their bodies, hence suicide bombers.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  146. @Showmethereal

    Where in God’s name do I state that the Iranians are Afro-Semites? Read the post again and report back soon… they were Zoroastrians-Indo-European. It’s the black-turbaned religious freaks who rule over them are from the desert!

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  147. @Really No Shit

    Oh you are one of those… Never mind. Fact is many advances happened in Islamic societies in the past… Not just Zoroastrian times.

  148. @AnonFromTN

    Sunni and Shia are not ethnic groups. Neither does speaking Arabic make one an Arab. But like it or not – Arabs made their way all the way to Europe at one time. Along the way many other ethnic groups began to speak their language and practice Islam. That didnt mzke them ethnic Arabs.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  149. @Showmethereal

    Sunni and Shia are not ethnic groups.

    I am well aware of that. But among Arabs there appears to be a strong correlation between being a Shia and general capabilities. Sunnis are best known for hitting the target only when they are shooting at the sky, whereas Lebanese Shia group Hezbollah actually beat the IDF to the point that it left South Lebanon, throwing its Christian allies under the bus. Admittedly, Syrian Alawites turned the tide of the war they were losing only after Russian officers started to direct their efforts. Still, from what I know from Russian officers who tried to train Sunni Arabs that the USSR supported, those guys are hopeless.

    Arabs made their way all the way to Europe at one time

    Yes, but their military prowess apparently fizzled out centuries ago. They spread their language and writing system under Muhammad pretty wide, but that was in the 7th century, ~1,300 years ago.

  150. Smith says:
    @Arioch

    Uh, they did. The split destroyed the USSR and commienism in Asia.

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