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First, here is a pretty good summary of what has taken place (including videos) posted by RT:

  • https://www.rt.com/news/444853-russia-ukraine-ships-conflict/
  • https://www.rt.com/news/444857-russia-ukraine-kerch-strait-standoff/

I will just add that at the time of writing (07:38 UTC) the cargo ship blocking the passage under the bridge has been removed, traffic has resumed and the situation has returned to normal.

Second, let me give you the single most important element to understand what is (and what is not) taking place: the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea are, in military terms, “Russian lakes”. That means that Russia has the means to destroy any and all ships (or aircraft) over these two seas: on the Black Sea the life expectancy of any intruder would be measured in minutes, on the Sea of Azov in seconds. Let me repeat here that any and all ships deployed in the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov are detected and tracked by Russia and they can all easily be destroyed. The Russians know that, the Ukrainians know that and, of course, the Empire knows that. Again, keep that in mind when trying to make sense of what happened.

Third, whether the waters in which the incident happened belong to Russia or not is entirely irrelevant. Everybody knows that Russia considers these waters are belonging to her and those disagreeing with this have plenty of options to express their disagreement and challenge the legality of the Russian position. Trying to break through waters Russia considers her own with several armed military vessels is simply irresponsible and, frankly, plain stupid (especially considering point #2 above). That is simply not how civilized nations behave (and there are plenty of contested waters on our planet).

Fourth, one should not be too quick in dismissing Poroshenko’s latest plan to introduce martial law for the next 60 days. Albeit Poroshenko himself declared that this mobilization does not mean that the Ukronazi regime wants war with Russia, the fact is that the first-line reserves will be mobilized. This is important because the situation resulting from the introduction to martial law could be used to covertly increase the number of soldiers available for an attack on Novorussia or, God forbid, Russia herself. In fact, Poroshenko also officially appealed to the veterans of the war against Novorussia to be ready for deployment.

Fifth, while there are all sorts of caveats offered by the Ukronazi regime about the introduction of the martial law, including that it will not mean war or infringe on the right of the people, the truth is very different. Here is what a memo by the Unian agency says about what martial law means in legal terms: (emphasis added)

Martial law is a special legal regime that is introduced in Ukraine or its individual areas in the event of armed aggression or threat of attack, a threat to Ukraine’s state independence, its territorial integrity, and gives authorities, the military command and local self-government the powers that are necessary to prevent threats and ensure national security. It also foresees temporary threat-related limitations on constitutional rights and freedoms of a person and a citizen and the rights and legal interests of legal entities, indicating the duration of such restrictions (Article 1 of the Law on the Legal Regime of Martial Law).

Considering the current single-digit popularity rating of Poroshenko and the fact that he has no chance in hell to be re-elected (at least not in minimally credible elections) it is pretty darn obvious of why the Ukronazi regime in Kiev decided to trigger yet another crisis and then blame Russia for it. The very last thing Russia needs is yet another crisis, especially not before a possible Putin-Trump meeting at the G20 Buenos Aires summit later this month. In fact, Ukrainian bloggers immediately saw this latest provocation as an attempt to scrap upcoming elections.

So what’s next?

Well, the most likely options is just one more Ukie bawling about the “Russian aggression” with the hope that this will a) raise the value of the Poroshenko regime in the eyes of the Empire and b) disrupt the planned Trump-Putin meeting.

I am not so sure that Poroshenko will be given the option to simply cancel the elections. Yes, he cannot win, but the Empire can replace him. Not only that, but outright canceling the elections would be a PR disaster (but one which is sometimes chosen by the Empire’s “sons of bitches” like, say, Mahmoud Abbas). Still there is also a very good chance that the Ukronazis regime feeling that it has nothing to lose would take such an unprecedented step.

Some kind of limited Ukronazi military operations against Russia, Novorussia, Crimea or the Kerch bridge would be militarily suicidal but political very profitable as it would allow Poroshenko to a) blame Russia for all the Ukrainian problems and b) demand even more aid to “resist against the Russian aggression”. The problem with that option is that there are good signs that a lot of the Ukrainian military personnel does not have the courage to actually fight the Russians (for ex: look how ALL the Ukie soldiers folded in Crimea; also, the blog of “Colonel Cassad” reports that of the three ships which tried to breach the Russian border, at least one had a captain who voluntarily surrendered his ship to the Russians; finally, one Ukrainian sailor has apparently been shot for refusing to open fire against the Russians). It is worth mentioning that on Sunday the Urkonazis sent a few more ships obviously to aid the ships intercepted by the Russians, but as soon as the Russians closed the passage and Russian Su-25s and Ka-52 appeared in the skies, they quickly stopped and eventually left the scene. Did they do that under order or because they did not want to die? We will never find out I suppose.

ORDER IT NOW

Finally, there is the very real possibility of a full-scale war against Russia. Yes, the Ukronazis would last just a couple of days, but keep in mind that their goal will not be to win, but to force Russia into an overt military operation which the entire “collective West” will have to condemn like what happened with the Georgian attack in 08.08.08. (you know, in the name of “solidarity” like during the Skripal false flag). As for the leaders of the Anglo-Zionist Empire, they will gladly fight Russia down to the very last Ukrainian solider, we all understand that.

Finally, let me address those who might think that Russia somehow over-reacted or should not have used force. First, let me remind you that we are talking about armed and military vessels, not fishing boats. Second, the Ukronazis have been daydreaming about bringing this bridge down even before it was built. So how where the Russians to know that these ships were not packed with explosives? Third, let me remind you that a few months ago the Ukronazis did send a few tiny military vessels under the bridge. That first time, they did ask for permission and even had a Russian pilot on board helping them to cross the narrow passage. Yet the regime in Kiev presented that a major “victory” against the Moskal’s. This time around tried to sneak by without asking. If the Russians had left them pass, what do you think they would have done the next time?

The truth is that the Ukronazi regime has been claiming for years now that it is at war against Russia, that Russia has invaded the Ukraine, that all those who oppose the regime or speak even the basic truth are “agents of the Kremlin/FSB. The funny thing is not just that this is the first time in Russian history that Russia is accused of waging a war which shes does not even participate in – it is even more hilarious that the Ukronazis claim to be at war with Russia but have a hissy fit when three of their (tiny) ships are arrested for violating the Russian border. Is there a war going on or not?! What the hell were they thinking when they tried to force their way through?!

[Sidebar: there is even a joke about this going around: Ukrainian military personnel are asked why they are fighting in the Donbass. They reply “because the Russians are there”. Then they are asked why they are *not* fighting in Crimea and they reply “because the Russians are truly there!!”. Bottom line: everybody knows full well that this is bull and that there are no Russian forces in Novorussia]

How do you prove that the other guy is an “aggressor state”? Simple – by forcing him to attack you. Considering the “selective blindness” of the collective West, the fact that you hit the other guy first makes absolutely no difference whatsoever (again, see 08.08.08).

It is obvious that the Nazi regime in Kiev is in a tailspin and that short of some dramatic action Poroshenko is a goner. Most of the gang around him won’t fare much better, especially not if Timoshenko ever gets the presidency (which might happen if the Empire decides to ditch Poroshenko). For them the options are either to leave the Ukraine or face some serious jail time (sort of the same situation as Saakashvili had to face).

We are entering a very dangerous time period, one in which a totally corrupt Nazi regime will fight with every trick imaginable to save itself. Whether this will result in a major war against Novorussia or Russia is impossible to predict, but we have to recognize that this is a distinct possibility.

(Republished from The Vineyard of the Saker by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. Liza says:

    It is obvious that the Nazi regime in Kiev is in a tailspin and that short of some dramatic action Poroshenko is a goner

    The Ukie government is not “Nazi”, so give it a break already. The Nazis were a uniquely German manifestation of authoritarianism/fascism and after WW II they disappeared. There has not been a Nazi government in Germany since 1945, or anywhere else.

    I am not sticking up for the American-installed government in Ukraine. At this point, the Ukrainians would be better off aligning themselves with Russia and, you know, just trying to get along. But the government is not Nazi. They may be neonazis or militant fascist terrorists or whatever you like, but the regime is not “Nazi”.

    • Agree: JLK, Serrice, Curmudgeon
    • Disagree: Biff
  2. The very last thing Russia needs is yet another crisis, especially not before a possible Putin-Trump meeting at the G20 Buenos Aires summit later this month.

    I don’t think that this is a factor anymore in Kremlin’s considerations. Moscow understands completely that DJT is not a treaty-worthy party. To avert war and calm things down somewhat? Sure. To discuss anything else of substance? Waste of time.

  3. AWM says:

    Well, we all know that the Russians would never invade anyone, all those “little green men” are from Macedonia, and Putin is a “great humanitarian.”

    It might be a good thing for all the Russian apologists to remember Ukraine might have a little more “firepower” than is generally attributed to them. Briefly they were the 3rd most powerful nuclear armed nation in history. Sure, they turned all those weapons over to the Russians to “guarantee” a non aggression treaty not worth the paper it was written on, but if there were any real “loose nukes” from Russia, they were available for a stiff price from that shitty little country in the middle east that everybody loves to hate.

  4. “The very last thing Russia needs is yet another crisis, especially not before a possible Putin-Trump meeting at the G20 Buenos Aires summit later this month.”

    For all we know, the evil orange clown in the White House and his handlers might have encouraged Poroshenko to do this stunt (or perhaps they even planned it themselves) for the express purpose of creating an excuse for the demonic orange poseur to avoid a meeting with Vladimir Putin.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  5. Russian and ukraine will again make war, this inevitable end

  6. @Harold Smith

    For all we know, the evil orange clown in the White House and his handlers might have encouraged Poroshenko to do this stunt (or perhaps they even planned it themselves) for the express purpose of creating an excuse for the demonic orange poseur to avoid a meeting with Vladimir Putin.

    Very well could be the case. At this stage the US and Russia have very little of substance to talk about. At least publicly. Moreover, Trump’s MO and US objectives are patently clear today.

    • Replies: @Taras77
  7. @AWM

    Well what are doing sitting behind a computer screen in your mother’s basement ranting about it? Rather than lead from behind, why not lead by example? Perhaps you can get off your cowardly ass, grab your rifle, get over there and teach those evil Russians a lesson?

    • Replies: @AWM
  8. peterAUS says:

    Trying to break through waters Russia considers her own with several armed military vessels is simply irresponsible and, frankly, plain stupid (especially considering point #2 above). That is simply not how civilized nations behave (and there are plenty of contested waters on our planet).

    Unless they intend to provoke a confrontation and create an incident. Is it stupid and/or irresponsible depends on outcome.

    Considering the current single-digit popularity rating of Poroshenko and the fact that he has no chance in hell to be re-elected (at least not in minimally credible elections) it is pretty darn obvious of why the Ukronazi regime in Kiev decided to trigger yet another crisis and then blame Russia for it.

    Makes sense.

    The very last thing Russia needs is yet another crisis, especially not before a possible Putin-Trump meeting at the G20 Buenos Aires summit later this month.

    Ah.

    …there is also a very good chance that the Ukronazis regime feeling that it has nothing to lose would take such an unprecedented step.
    Some kind of limited Ukronazi military operations against Russia, Novorussia, Crimea or the Kerch bridge would be militarily suicidal but political very profitable as it would allow Poroshenko to a) blame Russia for all the Ukrainian problems and b) demand even more aid to “resist against the Russian aggression”.

    Agree.

    …there are good signs that a lot of the Ukrainian military personnel does not have the courage to actually fight the Russians ..

    Should it come to fighting they won’t be fighting Russians. They’d be fighting rebels.

    Finally, there is the very real possibility of a full-scale war against Russia.

    Highly unlikely, IMHO.

    We are entering a very dangerous time period, one in which a totally corrupt Nazi regime will fight with every trick imaginable to save itself. Whether this will result in a major war against Novorussia or Russia is impossible to predict, but we have to recognize that this is a distinct possibility.

    Looks like it.

  9. anon[405] • Disclaimer says:

    if i say Ukronazi! Ukronazi! Ukronazi!!! about 500 times will it catch on?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Johnny Rico
  10. peterAUS says:
    @anon

    if i say Ukronazi! Ukronazi! Ukronazi!!! about 500 times will it catch on?

    Don’t think so.
    It’s not about how many times a word is said; it’s about WHO heard it. Target audience, if you will.

  11. As wife beaters regularly say “she forced me to do it”. Clearly Ukraine forced Russian auxiliaries to occupy Crimea and Donbass.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
    , @FB
  12. @AWM

    You’re supposed to be looking at your monitor, not your mirror, as you type your infantile drivel, junior.

    • Replies: @AWM
  13. AWM says:
    @Harold Smith

    Like I said, grow up.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  14. @anon

    Not really. At this point most of The Saker’s regular readers I think just look on with mild amusement.

  15. @AWM

    Like I said, you’re supposed to be looking at your monitor, not your mirror, as you type your infantile drivel, junior.

    • Replies: @AWM
  16. Cyrano says:

    All I can say is that the Ukrainians have earned a new respect from me. I mean, sure they could have send flashy warships or some other large military vessels, but instead they choose to send gunboats.

    Someone might ask why. Because they are modest people, that’s why. They choose to send inconspicuous looking vessels in order not to freak out the Russians. How very considerate of them. And we all know how easily frightened the Russians are.

    Someone unfamiliar with the Ukrainian body language might also consider this an act of aggression. I interpret it differently. To me, this is a desperate plea for help from the Ukrainians to their Russian brothers. What they are saying is: “Please help us, put us out of our misery”. Everybody thinks that the Russians are cold blooded, but I see compassion there, I think they might just intervene and give the Ukraine the beating that they deserve.

  17. the (((Poroshenko/Yatz))) Kiev regime

    is a standard Zionist Occupation Gubmint,

    much like ‘Murka’s. Some of its soldaten,

    such as the Azov Gang,

    are fair-to-middling imitation Nazis…who, nonetheless,

    fight and die for the Jews.

    • Replies: @JLK
  18. JLK says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    I’ve looked, but haven’t found a good original source that sheds light on the worldview of these “Ukronazis” such as the Azov gang. I suspect any nostalgia they have for the German occupation stems from anti-communism and anti-Muscovy rather than support for Nazi ideology.

    It would be interesting to know who they blame for the Holodomor.

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @forgottenpseudonym
  19. Second, let me give you the single most important element to understand what is (and what is not) taking place: the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea are, in military terms, “Russian lakes”.

    This is simply untrue. The Black Sea borders several countries, and is large enough to include International Waters. International passage through the Bosphorus is guaranteed by treaty, even though the land on both sides belongs to Turkey. Occasionally American or British warships exercise their right to sail in the Black Sea. In the same way, Russian ships can approach to 12 miles of the British or American coast if they wish.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @FB
  20. AWM says:
    @Harold Smith

    Harold, you are a disgrace to this community.
    Please attempt to show a little respect.

  21. anon[405] • Disclaimer says:

    please, you two get a room already

  22. @AWM

    I think it’s time for you to run along now, junior, and get back to your Talmudic studies, before your mommy finds out you’re at the computer again.

    • Replies: @AWM
  23. @Liza

    While the Saker’s characterization of the Ukrainian political mindset is a bit overdrawn, it’s not overdrawn by much. What you raise is only a quibble and a rather minor one at that. Would crypto-Nazis suit you better? Wannabe Nazis? Naziesque?

    Were I you, I would direct my concern over the use of the word Nazi by the left in America using the term to describe the right. The slightly-educated left (university administrations, faculty and students for example) already calls itself antifa, an acronym for antifascist.

    Syndicalism, fascism, Nazism, they’re somewhat alike but different somehow. All three have similar economic ideologies and authority hierarchies. Nazism, however, adds a huge mythological component, something Mussolini tried in Italy with little success. The UkroNazis (pardon my use of the word) are trying hard to add their own mythological component. To the extent they have succeeded and to the extent their economic ideology and authority hierarchies match syndicalism, why not call a spade a spade, rather than calling it a shovel.

    On a slightly different tack, does today’s Democratic party resemble Thomas Jefferson’s or Andrew Jackson’s Democratic party? Hardly! But there are core principles common to both. Lincoln’s Republican party (even though he did want to send them all back to Africa) has the same oligopolistic, corporate foundations as today’s Republican party though Lincoln would hardly recognize it today.

    Nazism didn’t die in 1945, It didn’t even die in in 1948 after Eisenhower starved and froze captured SS members in open prison camps for three years. As a German friend said to me in Cologne in 1980, “The fire is still warm.” The refugees in Germany today are similar to all the Jewish refugees that fled Russia and Poland before and after World War I. It was the international finance capitalist Jews Hitler was angry at. It was all the refugees who suffered. The fire is still warm.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  24. AWM says:
    @Harold Smith

    And you get back to your KY.

  25. peterAUS says:
    @Macon Richardson

    ….The fire is still warm.

    Interesting.

    As for

    ….. why not call a spade a spade, rather than calling it a shovel.

    Saker and “Ukronazis”, well, he writes for the resident “Team Russia” around and their “huge mythological component” is the Great Patriotic War.
    Irish have that famine, Jews well, we know what their thing is etc….and Russians have that period ’41-’45.
    The big baddie (Lucifer, Morgoth and similar things) was, is and will be Nazis.

    If aliens were to jeopardize Russian interests (or, better, Kremlin/Moscow interests) they’d be (put star/solar system/planet)Nazis.

    What those misusing and abusing the word can’t seem to grasp is as per comment 18:

    …regular readers I think just look on with mild amusement.

    I’s actually counterproductive and doesn’t work outside of their own echo chamber.
    Not that’ll stop them (ab)using it, of course.

    • Replies: @FB
  26. @AWM

    I think that you can safely infer from Harold’s comments that he perceives that your infantile comment at #3 was indeed written by either a genuine infant or a person with the level of understanding equal to that of an infant. I concur and none of your comments following #3 have done anything to alter that.

    Of course, there’s also the possibility that you are here to dissemble for the benefit of… that shitty little country that has the US by the throat?

    Respect is earned.

  27. Liza says:

    @Macon.

    Would crypto-Nazis suit you better?

    Possibly. My point was that when we hear some party or other being called “Nazis” we think of Germany in the 1930s and 40s. Not Ukies today who, right or wrong, think they can have a country of their own.

    As a German friend said to me in Cologne in 1980, “The fire is still warm.”

    That was 38 years ago. Today, Germans just keep electing and re-electing a woman who despises them.

    Now about those suffering refugees you mentioned – I hope you can shed a tear or two for us as well, for the day when we are refugees and there won’t be anyone, anywhere, to take us in. Not the ones we helped and welcomed and not their descendants. South Africa is an ominous sign.

  28. @JLK

    Katchanovski has published plenty of research papers confirming the fascist tendencies of the Ukrainian ultra right e.g.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2832203

  29. yurivku says:
    @AWM

    Briefly they were the 3rd most powerful nuclear armed nation in history.

    You are an ignorant guy, I’m afraid. But it’s just normal for westerners.
    Yes, they have had everything, but all these were common achievements of USSR’s people, not UKies.

    They’ve got an army, fleet, industry, science … but right after they got their independence they’ve sold and stole everything. UKi never was and never will be a state, it’s a mix of desperate parasites who can’t live without a host.
    Currenly they are urgently seeking for one, cause they lost Russia, being so stupid. They believed US/EU will now feed them, poor stupids, but this will never happen .

    And they are trying everything to get an attention, but their time is almost over. But cause common West being ruled now by imbeciles and desperate assholes, – there is a chance for them to help starting a war before disappear.

  30. @James N. Kennett

    It would be helpful if you read a little more closely: the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea are, in military terms, “Russian lakes”.

    Borders mean squat when the shooting starts.

  31. @forgottenpseudonym

    As long as people insist fascism/national socialism and their Iberian offshoots are “right” or “ultra right”, you will have the Katchanovskis of the world making such pronouncements. The only thing left of fascism is communism.

  32. AWM says:

    Wow, lots of Commies here.
    Just export a little more Red Terror, that’ll fix things right up.
    After all, it’s what you do best.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    , @PhilK
  33. Taras77 says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Excerpt from this update:

    https://www.sott.net/article/401482-Sea-of-Azov-provocation-Kiev-declares-martial-law-Russia-warns-of-consequences-UPDATES:

    Poroshenko ran into some trouble trying to get martial law passed in the Rada. First he was blocked from speaking by Lyashko and Tymoshenko, after which he fled the Rada to call Pompeo. Here’s what he wrote on Facebook:

    “I briefed the US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo by phone on the introduction of a regime of martial law. We coordinated steps to further counteract Russian aggression against Ukraine, including in the Kerch Strait. The illegal actions of Russia are completely unacceptable and should receive the most severe reaction of the international community, including the strengthening of sanctions against the Russian Federation.”

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  34. @AWM

    “Wow, lots of Commies here.”

    ROTFL! Well you’re here, junior, so there’s at least one “Commie” present.

    “The triumph of fascism will be the triumph of the communist soul. But the communist
    soul is the soul of Judaism. Hence it follows that, just as in the Russian revolution the triumph of
    communism was the triumph of Judaism, so also in the triumph of fascism will triumph Judaism”
    (Rabbi Harry Waton, A Program For Jews And Humanity, p143, Astoria Press, 1939).

  35. @forgottenpseudonym

    Katchanovski has published plenty of research papers confirming the fascist tendencies of the Ukrainian ultra right e.g.

    he confirmed what you wanted to believe?

  36. It wasn’t even Ukie Nazi provocation. It was a provocation designed by Poroshenko personally to achieve his ends. Judging by relatively muted reaction of Western MSM, it was not planned by his handlers. When they plan a propaganda campaign, totally false stories get a lot more coverage, whereas here an actual confrontation happened.

    Poroshenko has no chance of winning presidential elections, even with all the electoral fraud his clique can commit. So, his only change of keeping his lucrative place at the trough is to cancel the elections. He needed martial law for that. However, it looks like the Washington politburo decided to replace him with someone less odious and informed him and the Rada about that. Hence, the results of his provocation came short of his expectations: martial law will last only 30 days, and the next presidential elections were scheduled for March 31, 2019. He had plan B, though: he is frantically selling his assets in Ukraine, preparing to run away to avoid being hanged by “grateful” citizens.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Marshall Lentini
  37. @Liza

    They may be neonazis or militant fascist terrorists or whatever you like, but the regime is not “Nazi”.

    Agree. First and foremost, German Nazis were reasonably smart and capable, whereas these cheap knockoffs are dumb and hapless. They are wonnabe Nazis, but they certainly don’t measure up.

    • Replies: @Liza
  38. Liza says:
    @AnonFromTN

    What you say is true, except for the fact that TODAY, Germans are unbelievably stupid, too stupid to become Nazis once again. It wasn’t Ukies in Ukraine who keep voting for Mama Merkel, is it now… :)

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  39. His master’s voice! Read the “Joint Statement on US-Ukraine Strategic Partnership of November 16, 2o18, (state.gov), paragraph concerning “Security and Counterimg Russian Aggression”, and you will understand. Pompeius maximus dixit. Si vis pacem para bellum – et pereat mundus. May there not be the alternative???

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  40. El Dato says:
    @AWM

    but if there were any real “loose nukes” from Russia, they were available for a stiff price from that shitty little country in the middle east that everybody loves to hate.

    What does Iran have got to do with anything?

  41. El Dato says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I like this take.

    When you stage a provocation and nobody cares, it is a sure sign that the official “please do care, maximum press” message has not gone out.

    • Replies: @Toxic Talmudist
  42. @El Dato

    the media is still trying to get someone, anyone to care about Khashoggi

  43. @Liza

    You have a point. I can’t reconcile that self-destructive voting behavior with the Germans I know personally: I collaborate with several labs in Germany and know at least a dozen of them. Then again, these are scientists, whereas mutti Merkel is elected by the hoi polloi.

  44. @Philip Owen

    Did you notice that both the Crimean Referendum and the Donbass revolt happened after the coup in Kiev? There was more than a smidgen of Ukrainian–especially western Ukrainian–agency in this.

  45. @Taras77

    Here’s what he wrote on Facebook:

    Presenting themselves as America-supported creatures is very important in Ukraine. Obviously we all know that Poroshenko is a C’n’C of the “strongest” military in Europe and that he coordinates even his bowel movements with Pompeo and even Trump, but, frankly, most of Ukrainian “elite” are dumb as stumps. They sure are conniving and sneaky, but dumb–they always learn wrong lessons.

  46. Slaw says:
    @Liza

    If the Ukie government is not “Nazi” then it is probably worse especially in the light of the persecution of not only the Gypsies. It can also be called the Banderite government as it cultivae Government as it cultivates the criminal traditions of the UPA nationalists. The Nazis did not disappear after the end of the WSII but only after it appeared, thanks to the Jewish propaganda of the Holocaust. During the war this concept did not exist.

  47. AWM says:

    I guess nobody remembers the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances?

    OK, I’m done.

    • Replies: @hunor
  48. @forgottenpseudonym

    That’s strange because the National Socialist German Workers’ Party was a socialist party, and one look at their platform confirms it.

    They were, of course, a socialist party that rejected global socialism in favor of socialism that benefited Germans only.

    Of course, Hitler might simply have been peddling something he thought the majority of Germans of the time would get behind, just like almost all politicians.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  49. @René Henri Pasche

    And here its is:

    https://ge.usembassy.gov/joint-statement-on-u-s-ukraine-strategic-partnership-november-16/

    Security and Countering Russian Aggression

    The two sides underscored the need to continue building Ukraine’s resilience in the face of Russian aggression, reaffirmed the importance of the Minsk agreements in ending Russia’s aggression, and highlighted the need to restore Ukrainian control over the Ukrainian territories temporarily occupied or controlled by Russia – Crimea and the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

    Both sides decided that a robust UN-mandated international security force in the areas of Donbas controlled by Russia, including the Ukraine-Russia international border, would create the necessary security conditions for the full implementation of the Minsk Agreements.

    The United States reiterated its commitment to Secretary Pompeo’s July 25 Declaration on the non-recognition of Russia’s purported annexation of Crimea.

    The United States condemned Russia’s aggressive actions against international shipping transiting the Black Sea, the Sea of Azov and the Kerch Strait to Ukrainian ports. Both sides underscored that Russia’s aggressive activities in the Sea of Azov have brought new security, economic, social, and environmental threats to the entire Azov-Black Sea region.

    They are getting ready for war.

    • Replies: @Liza
    , @peterAUS
  50. hunor says:
    @AWM

    The Budapest memorandum has been thrown out with the illegal coup orchestrated by
    your juwSA government. Remember insane mcaine !

  51. Liza says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    They are getting ready for war.

    What is wrong with everybody, esp. Washington. Do they think war is some kind of church picnic? “Come on, kids – let’s have a little war, they’re a real hoot!” What happened to Donny Drumpf’s friendly foreign policy that he campaigned on?

  52. peterAUS says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    ….building Ukraine’s resilience in the face of Russian aggression….
    …..ending Russia’s aggression…..
    …..Ukrainian territories temporarily occupied or controlled by Russia – Crimea and the Donetsk and Luhansk regions……
    …..UN-mandated international security force in the areas of Donbas controlled by Russia…..

    Crazy.

    Can’t be, of course. We are talking about U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin…… and I am nobody.

    It’s smart and I simply can’t see it. I see it as crazy. So, I must be crazy thinking it’s crazy.
    Yes…that’s the only reasonable explanation.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  53. FB says:
    @Philip Owen

    So Tampon Phil…a palm oil merchant plying his trade in Russia doesn’t mind bashing the country in which he hopes to make a fortune [someday]…what a clown…or maybe he’s given up on Russia and is enjoying the ‘ambience’ the auld country…LOL

  54. FB says:
    @James N. Kennett

    There is also the Montreux Convention of 1936…

    This does practically make the Black Sea a Russian Lake…since it restricts foreign military ships [ie not from a Black Sea country] to a maximum of 15,000 tons and a maximum duration of 21 days…even if the US wanted to have military ships there it would be a very small force that could easily be overwhelmed by the Russians…

    The interesting history is that Turkey was neutral at the time the agreement was made, but Stalin kept pushing for even more favorable terms for Russia after WW2…this pushiness resulted in Turkey accepting to join Nato in 1952…but nowadays it seems that Turkey is basically in both camps at the same time…

    In the case of a war with the US and Nato all bets are off…and Russia could easily close the Black Sea at the narrow Dardannelles Strait…

    • Replies: @bluedog
  55. FB says:
    @peterAUS

    Do you have to keep proving that you are a moron…to cite Johnny Freako’s comment really makes you look ‘intelligent’ Potatohead…

    • Replies: @Anti_Cult
  56. @peterAUS

    Like the North Vietnamese, the Russians have proven in the past that they are willing to die for their country.

    Any attack on Russia will be a very bloody affair.

  57. PhilK says:
    @AWM

    Wow, lots of Commies here.

    Lurk moar.

    • Troll: bluedog
    • Replies: @Svigor
  58. Svigor says:

    Rusnats say the Ukrainians are “Nazis.”

    Guess that means I’m on Team Ukraine.

    Go UkroNazis!!! Kick Russian ass!

  59. Svigor says:
    @PhilK

    N0, he’s right, Rusnats are commies. They even warm over shitty old Soviet agitprop about how America isn’t leftist enough, is too rough to our niggers, etc.

  60. Svigor says:
    @Liza

    If the US gov’t installed a Nazi gov’t in Ukraine, it’s the only good thing it’s done in like a century.

    I say, embrace it.

    Go UkroNazis, go!

    • Replies: @Marshall Lentini
  61. bluedog says:
    @FB

    Forget the Ukraine for that’s only an attention grabber, instead focus on Syria where the U.S. and its toads are building their forces in what could and probably will turn into a hot war,seems like the orange clown is setting the people up for another Bush adventure….

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @anon
    , @FB
    , @Anti_Cult
  62. Svigor says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    It’s not exactly a secret that National Socialism was an attempt to co-opt the mass appeal of socialism in service of Nationalism and the right. And that idea is not a bad one, broadly speaking (socialism has become a dirty word, but some socialist policies are still very popular).

    Personally I’d prefer something more like Founding America, but I’d take National Socialism over the Kosher Sandwich any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

    But then, I’d take a pro-White Christian theocracy, or a pro-White Monarchy over Jewish rule, too. I’d take pro-White anything over Jewish rule.

  63. anon[192] • Disclaimer says:
    @bluedog

    seems like the orange clown is setting the people up for another Bush adventure….

    looks like drumpf was a phony and a liar after all

    i wanted to believe him

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  64. @anon

    i wanted to believe him

    A lot of people did. The fact that intellectually inferior clown still looks like the most sensible person in Washington tells us volumes about the state of the US elites. It is said that when God wants to punish a person, He takes away his mind.

  65. @Svigor

    This would all be much better without the “Ukrainian Nazi” rhetoric. An economist would see very little difference between the people running Russia and Ukraine beyond total dollar amounts and the amount of sang froid regarding these events, given their respective leverage on the world stage.

    Svigor – they’re not “Nazis”, or only inasmuch as they entertain a) simple nationalist sentiment and b) reverence for symbols which Russia dislikes. And Russia obviously is not “Communist” in spite of nostalgia about the past.

    But, of course, no one will ever drop this facile Nazi / Bolshevik angle, just as if this were still 1941. How hard is it to focus on the economic and geopolitical dimensions and tune out the propaganda? how shallow do you have to be to take reductio ad Hitlerum / Stalinum for actual political analysis?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Felix Keverich
  66. Russians have put themselves in an ideological bind, no?

    By calling Ukraine “Nazi” for, say, dealing with gypsies in an appropriate fashion, they cannot deal with their own racial problems without serious cognitive dissonance.

    If the other guy is a racist, you are now obliged to abnegate your own race in favor of the other to prove your bona fides. Good luck with that.

    This is one of the many ground-flaws in Dugin’s worldview, for example: everyone has to suck up to other races, a la Fanon, because the west is “imperialist” i.e. “Nazi”, as Russia has never frankly owned up to its own expansionist past. Whatever Russia was doing, it absolutely wasn’t colonialism.

    Condemning imperialism, while simultaneously yearning for one’s nation’s own imperialist past under pleasant holistic names; proving oneself anti-racist by becoming racist against one’s own: such is the guilt complex of the modern whiteskin.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Svigor
  67. peterAUS says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    …very little difference between the people running Russia and Ukraine beyond total dollar amounts and the amount of sang froid regarding these events, given their respective leverage on the world stage…

    Pretty much.

    …. How hard is it to focus on the economic and geopolitical dimensions and tune out the propaganda?

    Masses and the power of symbols.

  68. peterAUS says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    Good comment.

    Snippets I’ve found interesting:

    Russians have put themselves in an ideological bind…

    ….they cannot deal with their own racial problems without serious cognitive dissonance….

    … everyone has to suck up to other races, a la Fanon, because the west is “imperialist” i.e. “Nazi”, as Russia has never frankly owned up to its own expansionist past. …

    Condemning imperialism, while simultaneously yearning for one’s nation’s own imperialist past under pleasant holistic names; ….

  69. FB says:
    @bluedog

    I think you may be right…US is building up forces in the Med Sea and even inside Syria…this hasn’t escaped the notice of Russian commentators…

    And guess which ‘lobby’ appears to be behind this renewed push in Syria…?

    Last week the WaPo ran a column by the dirtball Josh Rogin…calling for brisk US action in Syria to ‘oppose’ Iran and prevent Assad from ‘retaking the entire country’…

    ‘Most urgently . . . the United States must impose real obstacles to Tehran’s pursuit of total victory by the Assad regime in Syria,” the report by the Jewish Institute for National Security of America states. “Time is of the essence.”‘

    That report can be found here…

    So that settles that…the neocons are right back in the driver’s seat again…surprise surprise…they call for action in Syria, and we get a big military buildup in the area lickety split…Trump who was supposedly going to ‘drain’ the swamp and put America First is of course putting Israel First…like every US president in living memory…

    Anyway…I hope most deplorables in Flyover country are sleeping soundly now…knowing that the Jewish Institute for National Security of America has their back…

    So much for ‘president’ DUMP…

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @Anti_Cult
  70. Anti_Cult says:
    @FB

    Very good comment, thanks @FB. I also think they have a twofold goal: to weaken Syrian government(that is not the main goal) and provoke Iran by attacking her bases to start a war first in Syria then in Iran(this is the main goal and the wet dream of the neocons).

    The extreme defense of MBS by the administration is only make sense in the light of KSA’s help with the main goal which is a total war and destruction of Iran(Trump is keeping his promises to Sheldon Adelson). Everything has been set to motion very similar to what Bolton and alike did with Iraq: first, put a devastating sanction to weaken the country and second, attack militarily on a false pretext.

    • Replies: @Anti_Cult
  71. Anti_Cult says:
    @FB

    Please ignore this guy. @peterAUS was supporting Israel executions of unarmed civilians, medics and journalists in Gaza. To me the words of someone who defends crimes against innocent civilians is totally worthless.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  72. Anti_Cult says:
    @bluedog

    As I wrote in my previous comment. The main goal is Iran, Syria’s destruction is a means to an end.

  73. Anti_Cult says:
    @Anti_Cult

    U.S. VS. IRAN: MILITARY ACTION ‘ON THE TABLE,’ TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAYS AFTER SENATE VOTE THREATENS SAUDI ARABIA SUPPORT

    https://www.newsweek.com/us-military-action-iran-table-saudi-support-1237100

  74. @Marshall Lentini

    An economist would see very little difference between the people running Russia and Ukraine beyond total dollar amounts and the amount of sang froid regarding these events, given their respective leverage on the world stage.

    Are you an economist? As a Russian I see obvious differences between Jewish oligarchy dominating the Ukraine and “KGB mafia” that runs today’s Russia. For one, Jewish oligarchy has no attachment to the country, they are parasitising on. They see it only as a feeding ground, ready to depart it at any time, if things get hot. One could argue that modern Ukraine is what Russia used to be, 20 years ago, but certainly not anymore.

    On the other hand Russia’s Cheka possesses corporate mentality, and sees the country as their common property. This encourages some degree of cooperation within the elite and long-term thinking, because Russia is their home. Russian elites have Western sanctions blocking their freedom of movement, and in some cases, risk getting arrested if they set foot in a Western country. This forces them to align their plans for the future with Russia a bit more.

    I wouldn’t go so far as to call Russian elites competent and patriotic, but they run a fairly functional state, in contrast to what you see in modern-day Ukraine. They have problems with centralised heating in the Ukraine, and no hot water in the capital.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  75. Svigor says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    Russians seem only marginally less racially psychotic than Americans do. WNs on both sides excepted, of course.

  76. Svigor says:
    @Anti_Cult

    The problem with the Gaza bleeding hearts is 99% of them cheer on the slow, (relatively) peaceful, but authoritarian- and psyop-enabled genocide of European populations. With 99.999% of the Palestinians no doubt falling into that category.

    So fuck ‘em back, I say. Use ‘em as weapons against the Jews, but don’t start believing one’s own agitprop.

  77. peterAUS says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I see obvious differences between Jewish oligarchy dominating the Ukraine and “KGB mafia” that runs today’s Russia. For one, Jewish oligarchy has no attachment to the country, they are parasitising on. They see it only as a feeding ground, ready to depart it at any time, if things get hot.

    On the other hand Russia’s Cheka possesses corporate mentality, and sees the country as their common property. This encourages some degree of cooperation within the elite and long-term thinking, because Russia is their home.

    …forces them to align their plans for the future with Russia a bit more.

    Pretty much.

  78. Further confirmation (if any is needed) that Putin made a big mistake in not accepting eastern Ukraine’s desire to rejoin the Russian Federation .

    • Replies: @bluedog
  79. bluedog says:
    @Carroll Price

    Not much future in simply moving your border a few miles down the road for you will still have the same problems,much like our kicking the can down the road rather than facing the financial problems that’s only going to grow until its to big to kick again…

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  80. @bluedog

    It would have removed or eliminated any claims Ukraine has to any part of the Sea of Azov, basically leaving Ukraine as a land-locked state.

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