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A Tale of Two World Orders

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Two historical summits are taking place this week: the crisis talk in France and Germany about the Greek crisis and the simultaneous meeting of the BRICS and Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) countries in Ufa, Russia. These two meetings could hardly be more different.

ORDER IT NOW
The Eurobureaucrats are scrambling to prevent a domino effect in which Greece would leave the Eurozone and set a precedent for other Mediterranean countries such as Italy, Spain or even France. But there is really much more at stake here than the comparatively small Greek debts, the solvency of European banks or even the future of the Euro. What is really at stake is the credibility and future of the entire “Euro project” and thus the future of the oligarchy which created it.

The EU elites have put an immense amount of political and personal capital into the creation of what one could call a “Bilderberger Europe”, one run by the elites and on behalf of the USA promoted New World Order. Just like the US elites have put their full credibility behind the official 911 narrative against all empirical evidence, so the European have put their full credibility behind a “grand EU” project even though it was obvious that this project was not viable. And now reality is coming back with a vengeance: simply put, the EU is way too big. Not only was the expansion of the EU to the East a huge mistake, but even the western EU is really the artificial assembly of a Mediterranean Europe and a Northern Europe as Nigel Farange so aptly put it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94UcyJnRcGU. Finally, it is pretty obvious that the current EU was built against the will of many, if not most, of the people of Europe. As a result, the Eurobureaucrats are now fighting to keep their dying project alive as long as possible.

What we are witnessing these days in Ufa, Russia, could not be any more different. The simultaneous meeting of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) and the SCO countries ( China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan) marks the gathering of a future world order, not one directed at the USA or the West, but one simply built without them, which is even more humiliating. In fact, the BRICS/SCO ‘combo’ is a real nightmare for the AngloZionist Empire (for the precise reasons for the use of this term, please see here: http://thesaker.is/terminology/).

It has already been announced the India and Pakistan will become full members of the SCO. So the full list of BRICS/SCO members will now look like this: Brazil, China, India, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Russia, South Africa, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. The BRICS/SCO will thus include 2 Permanent UN Security Council, 4 countries with nuclear weapons (only 3 NATO countries have nukes!), it’s members account for a full third of the world’s land area, they produce 16 trillion dollars in GDP and have a population of 3 billion people or half of the global world population. The SCO population stands at 1.6 billion people, or one fourth of the Earth population which produces $11.6 trillion in GDP. Furthermore, the BRICS/SCO countries are already working on a new development bank whose aim is to create an alternative to the IMF and World Bank. But most importantly, the SCO is growing even further and might soon welcome Belarus and Iran as full members. And the door is wide open for more members, possibly even Greece if the Grexit happens).

The core of this alternative New World Order are, of course, Russia and China. Without them, neither the BRICS nor the SCO would make any sense. The most amazing feature of this Russian-Chinese ‘core’ is the way it was formed. Rather than creating a formal alliance, Putin and Xi did something which, as far as I know, has never been done in the past: they have turned their two super-countries (or ex-empires, pick your term) into symbionts, two separate organisms which fully depend on each other. China has agreed to become fully dependent on Russia for energy and high technology (especially defense and space) while Russia has agreed to become fully dependent on China economically. It is precisely because China and Russia are so different from each other that they form the perfect match, like two puzzle figures, who perfectly fit each other.

For centuries the Anglo-Saxons have feared the unification of the European landmass as a result of a Russian-German alliance, and they have been very successful at preventing it. For centuries the major sea powers have ruled the world. But what no western geostrategist had ever envisioned is the possibility that Russia would simple turn East and agree to a symbiotic relationship with China. The sheer size of what I call the Russian-Chinese Strategic Partnership (RCSP) makes not only Germany, but even all of Europe basically irrelevant. In fact, the AngloZionist Empire simply does not have the means to influence this dynamic in any significant way. Had Russia and China signed some kind of formal alliance, there would always have been the possibility for either country to change course, but once a symbiosis is created, the two symbionts become inseparable, joined not only at the hip, but also at the heart and lungs (even if they each keep their own separate “brains”, i.e. governments).

ORDER IT NOW

What is so attractive to the rest of the world in this BRICS/SCO alternative is that neither Russia nor China have any imperial ambitions. Both of these countries have been empires in the past, and both have paid a huge price for that imperial status. Furthermore, they both have carefully observed how the USA has arrogantly overstretched itself over the entire planet resulting in a dialectical anti-American reaction worldwide. While the White House and the corporate media keep scaring those still willing to listen to them with tales about the “resurgent Russia” and the “assertive China”, the reality is that neither of these two countries has any desire at all to replace the USA as the world hegemon. You will never see China or Russia covering the globe with 700+ military bases, or fighting elective wars on a yearly basis or spend more on “defense” (i.e. aggression) than the rest of the planet combined. They will not build a 600 ship navy or even a fleet of 12 aircraft carriers to “project power” worldwide. And they will most definitely not point a “space gun” at the entire planet with megalomaniacal projects such a Prompt Global Strike.

What Russia, China and the BRICS/SCO countries want is an international order in which security is truly collective, according to the principle that “if you feel threatened then I am not safe”. They want a cooperative order in which countries are allowed (and even encouraged) to follow their own societal development model. Iran, for example, will not have to cease being an Islamic Republic after joining the SCO. They want to get rid of the comprador elites whose loyalty lies with foreign interests and encourage the “sovereignization “of each country. Finally, they want an international order ruled by the rule of law and not by the “might makes right” principle which has been the hallmark of the European civilization since the Crusades. And the key thing to understand is this: they don’t want that because they are so kind and noble, but because they sincerely perceive this to be in their pragmatic self-interest.

So while the European ruling plutocracy is trying to find a new way to further dispossess the Greek people and keep southern Europe subjugated to the rule of international bankers and financiers, the participants of the double summit in Ufa are laying the basis of a new world order, but not at all the New World Order predicted by George H.W. Bush. One could say that they are building an anti-New World Order.

Predictably, the western elites and their corporate media are in a “deep denial” mode. Not only do they not comment much about this truly historical event, but when they comment about it they assiduously avoid discussing the immense implications which these events will have for the entire planet. This borders on magical thinking: if I close my eyes hard enough and long enough this nightmare will eventually vanish.

It won’t.

What will happen is that the US dollar will gradually be pushed out of the BRICS/SCO zone and that US military power will not be challenged, it will be made irrelevant by a completely changed international environment in which even 700+ military bases worldwide will make no difference and, thus, no sense.

The meeting in Ufa will be remembered as the moment in history when the so-called “West” began being irrelevant.

 

The Saker is a recovering ex-military analyst who was born in Europe in a family of Russian refugees and who now leads the life of a “legal alien” in Florida. He blogs at http://thesaker.is/ and is the founder of the Saker Community of Blogs which currently includes the following members: French, Russian, German, Latin American, Oceania, Italian and Serbian.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, BookReview, BRICs, China, Russia 

333 Comments to "A Tale of Two World Orders"

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  1. Eurobureaucrats should be shortened to ‘eurocrats’. I’m just saying…

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  2. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"]
    says:
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    It all sounds good on paper, but most of these nations have terrible governance.

    South Africa? Pakistan? India? Brazil?

    Etc.

    They have potential but won’t get very far unless they clean house and develop proper national character.

    They need to Prussianize.

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  3. “They want a cooperative order in which countries are allowed (and even encouraged) to follow their own societal development model. Iran, for example, will not have to cease being an Islamic Republic after joining the SCO. They want to get rid of the comprador elites whose loyalty lies with foreign interests (sic: this means opposite to the EU leaders and politicians) and encourage the “sovereignization “of each country. Finally, they want an international order ruled by the rule of law and not by the “might makes right” principle.”

    Well, this is why unz.com exists, to give insights missing from the MSM. Propaganda is not only lying, it is also not telling.

    I can only write – the Saker’s write up reads fantastic, let us see if it works.

  4. Well written and interesting on v important matters. But the tests I apply at the outset of a first acquaintance with an intelligent well informed opinionated person required me to attend immediately to two matters. First the casual reference to 9/11 as if there was some great conspiracy we are wilfully blind to. Please set out your case. My understanding is that the supposedly mysterious failures of the buildings’ structures (so someone must have planted bombs!) has been explained by the amount of aviation fuel which the aircraft were carrying. And it surely is clear that Osama bin Laden’s disciples carried it out and he claimed credit (except initially to Mullah Omar).

    Second, I turned to your justification of your “Anglo-Zionist” usage. Well informed certainly, but then Himmler was too, and so were your co-religionists who concocted The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I see you are a believer, which I am not. So you accept as true matters which are unsupported by evidence, on faith presumably. But let me try a little factual probing. The most influential 1 per cent one would expect to be people with a combination of relatively high IQ and prestigious education to a high level, plus inherited wealth and/or success in business or professions. That’s not prima facie a group of people who are going to get together in a singleminded way to pursue the nefarious purposes you posit. One per cent of the American population that might be of the right age is at least 1.5 million so there has to be some selection principle you have in mind. I wonder what it is and whether it is supported by evidence. Obviously not the Davos Forum people – indeed many of the piously great and good who attemd might have to be combatted or circumvented. The 0.1 per cent, not least the 0.01 per cent people I know are strongly individual. Imagine training George Soros, Silvio Berlusconi, Jim Wolfensohn and Larry Summers all trained to perform together in your herd of cats…..And would they even stay in the same room with Sheldon Adelson without a gun at their heads? Well Silvio might be persuaded in other ways but….

    Real evidence please.

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  5. says:
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    “The “might makes right” principle which has been the hallmark of the European civilization since the Crusades.”

    Hm, are here some deeper historical grudges at play?

  6. “Second, I turned to your justification of your “Anglo-Zionist” usage. Well informed certainly, but then Himmler was too, and so were your co-religionists who concocted The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.”

    That moronic crap is based upon the pathetic notion of “Holocaust Inc.”, which is now being tossed into the dust bin of false history

    Every debate with a Jew ends up in the Auschwitz Disneyland, hence the reason for concocting the world’s biggest fraud in the first place.

    Follow the money.

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/

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  7. US military power will not be challenged, it will be made irrelevant

    good luck with that ~

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/carl-levin-james-inhofe-give-ukraine-the-weapons-it-needs-to-defend-itself/2014/10/16/06da647a-4fe2-11e4-babe-e91da079cb8a_story.html

    a bully (Fiend) doesn’t need to be challenged to be a threat

    These are two US Senators telling lies and trying to stir up a war with Russia

    “When Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko spoke to a joint session of Congress last month, he thanked the United States for its assistance in confronting Russian aggression,..”

    There has been no Russian aggression, Russia’s posture has been defensive. This whole conflict was foisted upon the region by the US State Dept. and Victoria Nuland in particular. (please check out Nuland’s husband and her brother in law and sister in law)

    “We believe now is the time to add defensive military aid, including weapons, to our support of Ukraine.”

    defensive = aggressive

    just read this tripe, it’s nothing but lies and blaming the victim

    “It’s important to remember what sparked Russia’s intervention: the peaceful, democratic protests of the Ukrainian people that unseated a corrupt, Putin-friendly regime. Supporting Ukraine’s desire for peace, freedom, territorial integrity and democracy supports values Americans hold dear.”

    The demonstrations weren’t peaceful, there were snipers shooting people on both sides of the conflict, deliberately taking it to it’s next level, whereupon Nuland (from a regime thousands of miles away) could imperialistically decide (on a recorded phone call) who the next president of Ukraine would be. That’s the kind of “democracy” these rotten liars are talking about.

    “Ukrainian military have shown great restraint in resisting Russian provocations, declining to fire back at artillery coming from Russian territory and making it clear their only objective is to defend their own territory.”

    These lies are off the charts. They have zero shame. They even mention MH17 that was riddled with 30mm machine gun bullets from what only could have been a Ukrainian fighter jet. But just like with 911, since they control the narrative in the west, they feel they can force-feed their lies onto a put-upon and submissive world. They think they have us all in a psychological Gitmo, and have their force-feeding tubes always at the ready.

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  8. Real evidence please.

    Forget the avalanche of other evidence, from the video of Building Seven imploding (in an obvious controlled demolition) to the destruction of the crime scene evidence of the worst crime on US soil in history (not to mention the evidence of a structural, architectural engineering impossibility)

    All we need to know is that the BBC reported on the implosion of Building Seven before it happened. That is advance knowledge. There is your “real evidence”.

    It would be just as if the BBC reported on the first plane hitting the tower a half an hour before it did. People in a sane world would want to know how they knew.

    But we don’t live in a sane world. We live in a world where our navy ships can be under cowardly attack and our president and Commander in Chief recalls the jets that were scrambled to assist the ship, twice. And the whole affair is hushed up and covered up for decades, so as not to embarrass our gallant little ally who is our bestest friend ever. (and whose Mossad knew the attacks on 911 were going to happened and didn’t warn us. They figured it would be “very good” for the attacks to happen with maximum casualties. Isn’t that quaint?)

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  9. says:
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    Quite simply, for every action there’s a reaction. Because of America’s worldwide aggression and bullying other countries are forced to band together for protection even if they have little in common otherwise. I suppose the foreign policy experts of the US never thought of what the long term effects of their policies would be but then that might be expected. The entire leadership class of the US have always been businessmen, going from Wall street to government and back, and are used to thinking in terms of quarterly profits rather than what would be good for the country as a whole in the long run. The goodwill that the US enjoyed at one time has largely been squandered and there’s a great amount of dislike for us now all around the world, a fact that the average American is too insular to understand.

  10. [This is why we strongly (but vainly) encourage regular commenters to select at least somewhat distinctive handle. To avoid confusion, and unless you object, we'd prefer to attempt to locate and change all your previous "Bob" comments to "Rurik" comments]

    I have to change my name. Someone else is using Bob

    My name is now Rurik

  11. The entire leadership class of the US have always been businessmen, going from Wall street to government and back

    That describes the leadership of the klepto-crony-capitalist troika of Wall Street/Goldman Sachs, The US Treasury/SEC, and the Fed. They’re all in bed together to loot the country dry. But there is another class of ideologues whose job it is to steer foreign policy. They’re the neocon Straussians, and their job is to put a military and economic death grip on the world on behalf a crazed dream of enslaving all of humanity. In so doing, they’re the ones forcing unlikely alliances between countries like Russia and China and Brazil. imho

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  12. Your bewildering rant may something about you and nothing else though what you say and how you say it gives one no reason to find it profitable to spend more time on that.

    “Moronic”! To be entitled to use that word you need to demonstrate non moronic cerebral ability. You fail in limine by using as an initial quote on which to hang your comment words which have *absolutely no relationship” to the substance of your rant.

    I presume you do not deny that Himmler was very anti-Jewish??? Not critical but it does occur to me that you might have some such mad view.

    So how could the fact that anti-Semites like leading Nazis or Czarists knew a lot that was in fact true about Jews and Jewry possibly or the knowledge or statement of it have a causal connection with some false story you allege is propagated about the Holocaust?

    Who’s talking about a “debate with a Jew” or Auschwicz? Do you just take every faint reference to the subject of your seething obsession as an occasion to explode with incoherent irrelevancies?

    About 40 years ago I mentioned the figure of 4 million which I had read somewhere to a subsequently distinguished Jewish lawyer and was quickly corrected. It didn’t seem to make much difference to the fact or quality of the crime but it now seems that deniers want to go on about the “6 million”. Why? Isn’t it clear that there were large Jewish populations in Eastern Europe in 1939 which (unlike any other population proportionately, including gypsies, were almost completrly eliminated with a lot of the killing starting long before gas chambers are said to have been first built, often by shooting carried out by local auxiliaries under German command but also including the use of carbon monoxide and burning buildings)! Who needs to make up Auschwicz?

    So, what’s the “fraud” and as you seem to connect it to money please explain the nature and magnitude of that connection?

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  13. Just let me get this clear. The US fosters opposition to the obscenely corrupt Russia oriented President of the Ukraine and Russia reacts

    1. by providing the armed strength in the Crimea (where it had troops and bases already) to detach the Crimea from the rest of the contry and make it effectually part of Russia,
    2. by providing “volunteers” (compare US advisers in Vietnam) and weapons so that Russian majority areas of the country can revolt violently against the Kiev government

    and you say this is just Russia being “defensive”. Didn’t Orwell have an aprt description for that kind of perversion of language?

    You might even have a case against the US and for Putin. Why spoil it with overblown nonsense?

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  14. 700 military bases in 100 countries across the globe? and for what reason begs the question? War Inc? Or just an organism that grew on it’s own without conscience?

    It’s getting pretty obvious that Washington’s delineate enemy number one is not a nuclear tipped massive military that could challenge them, but a larger economy that is ruled by someone else.

    Empires come and go and that is a fact of life, but this time we have an empire that is stubborn, aggressive, and armed to the teeth with some of the most destructive weapons ever designed. Will it go quietly or exit with a big bang?

  15. 1. by providing the armed strength in the Crimea (where it had troops and bases already) to detach the Crimea from the rest of the contry and make it effectually part of Russia,

    You should learn the history of Crimea before you leave no doubts that you know nothing about the place.

    2. by providing “volunteers” (compare US advisers in Vietnam) and weapons so that Russian majority areas of the country can revolt violently against the Kiev government

    Volunteers, and weapons? You need evidence were there is none.

    And for the record – don’t tell us to not look behind the curtain.

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  16. Just let me get this clear. The US fosters opposition to the obscenely corrupt Russia oriented President of the Ukraine and Russia reacts

    They didn’t just “foster opposition”. They spent five billion dollars fomenting a violent putsch against a democratically elected (if admittedly corrupt) government. How would we feel if Russia spent five billion dollars agitating (the overtly and obscenely corrupt) Miami to violently break off from the United States? And then set about burning people alive in buildings where pro-Americans were trapped. I don’t think we’d be too amused.

    1. by providing the armed strength in the Crimea (where it had troops and bases already) to detach the Crimea from the rest of the contry and make it effectually part of Russia,

    Crimea has been a part of Russia for hundreds of years. In fact the ‘break-away’ parts of Ukraine that we’re talking about were part of Russia too until the 1950s when (Ukrainian) Khrushchev incorporated them in into the Ukraine. They’re Russians and speak Russian and as soon as Nuland installed the neo-Nazis in Kiev, they passed laws against the Russian speaking peoples forcing this madness upon those pitiful people.

    2. by providing “volunteers” (compare US advisers in Vietnam) and weapons so that Russian majority areas of the country can revolt violently against the Kiev government

    They are providing humanitarian aid to those people who are being used as pawns in a geopolitical game of raw power being brought to Putin’s door step to make the Russian bear put on a tootsie and ride a circus bicycle around in a circle for the amusement of the Fiend. Who more than anything else demands submission to its will. Just as the people who died in Waco, TX what happened when you thumb your nose at the Fiend. Oh, you can’t.

    and you say this is just Russia being “defensive”. Didn’t Orwell have an aprt description for that kind of perversion of language?

    yea, it’s called newspeak. The irony is that he was talking about the Bolsheviks and today it’s the west that talks in that language.

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  17. And while I too am a skeptic we have things we can not explain like why would the elites work so hard to replace white nations population with low IQ violent illiberal irrational low future time orientation barbarians while at the same time teach them to hate whites and western civilization,do they seriously believe in a few decades these apes will allow them to rule if so what do they know perhaps that by then resistance will be futile? why would these titans of commerce support this and socialism generally, what can they be thinking about the 1.2 quadrillion dollars in credit default swaps a result of QE to make the unequal seem equal?Why does every thing seem to work out to their benefit could we possibly have had this police state without 911we had spent the previous 50 years dismantling the police state and just when technology might make government irrelevant they are suddenly able to know what temp our fridge is at our porn taste and our comments on political articles and if we are cheating on our wife

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  18. I did a search for the BBC reporting of the WTC 7 collapse which you proffered as the compelling “real evidence” that 9/11 was – well what? – apart from some dark deed that the US government and maybe Israel had something to do with for reasons known only to little green men from Mars?

    I hate to think Ron is giving space to people whose mad warped view of the world is like that of the obsessives I found blogging on the BBC page where conspiracy was denied. Such people either have a very limited tunnel visioned understanding of the world and their fellow humans or have got so carried away with finding and proving some very special limited set of facts for which they go digging the whole ever deeper that they lose whatever grasp they had of common sense and everyday probability.

    Suppose the BBC reporter who found herself in NYC that morning with an extraordinary story to understand and to try and tell on TV did say 20 minutes before WTC 7 came down that it had collapsed. So what?

    The precise words matter. Was she saying “it’s not just the great north and south towers collapsing: there are others too; building 7 for one”. So someone has told her something which she doesn’t remember the precise words of or which was ambiguous and causes her on the run to nominate WTC 7 as already collapsed. No conspiracy and nothing puzzling or sinister. And it is you that has to explain why it is sinister if the building could be seen still standing behind in the TV picture. No conspirator would want such a stuff up.

    But suppose someone knew that WTC 7 was coming down. Maybe it was obvious to a technically qualified person. If it was known because of being party to a conspiracy why would the BBC be told? And why before it happened? If it was by an unwilling witness to the conspiracy why have we heard no more? Was he, after choosing to tell just the BBC, quickly detected by the conspirators and killed so that no one noticed?

    Might it not have been a good idea btw to finish off WTC 7 with a controlled demolition?

    As it happens I first knew of 9/11 by being woken from the other side of the world by one of my children who was a senior producer for the BBC – also married to another one – telling me to turn on the TV. They dealt with the neocons (whom they didn’t like), objected strongly to Tony Blair’s lies, and they would have known if there was something seriously interesting in the BBC’s coverage and inferences to be drawn and I would have been told – but not a word.

    Against the simple story of an effective Al Qaeda operation what do you offer that hangs together and makes sense. The planes with full tanks of fuel flew into the two buildings. Why would anyone risk blowing the whole enterprise by stacking explosives on occupied floors of the two main towers? Why would they want to anyway?

    Common sense and clear joined up thinking can be quite good cures for fantastical thinking. Try finding yourself a sensible wife and before you next get too carried away take a deep breath and actually listen to her when she says “now dear, don’t get so excited; mightn’t the answer be really quite simple”.

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  19. I am not sure about your disability that severely disables you from making a case effectively. It could be a problem with logic or it could be that you don’t attend to what others say (or both, which seems likely).

    There is absolutely nothing in the history of the Crimea with which I am as far as I can infer quite as familiar as you which has any bearing on the issue. The land of the Krim Tartars became part of the Russian Empire, then the Soviet Union, before, under Kruschev it became part of the Ukrainian S.S.R. from which it followed that it became part of the independent Ukrainian nation on the break up of the Soviet Union. No one it seems thought that some sort of restorative justice was due to the Tartars. So…?

    Volunteers. Well off duty soldiers and soldiers on leave I think the Russians call them – quite openly. And you haven’t seen the film weapons (and of course closed trucks) moving from Russia into the Ukraine? Give me a break, do you ask me to believe that an original barely armed militia from eastern Ukraine factories got all the heavy weapons that they now use to fight the Ukrainian army to a standstill from the Ukrainian army. Anyway why would you give Putin anything like a free pass after what the Russians have done to the Chechens who actually live in the Russian Federation. Or is it your line that Putin is such a stickler for international law and order that he woul only use brutal violence against his own people who upset him? Pull the other one!

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  20. Hello Wizard
    Once more, I find myself in a position to applaud your efforts at the rational, coherent and indeed the human.

    I find most of the articles here, a mixture, containing equal parts good research and a curious anti westernism. (There are exceptions, Razib K and Fred R and Sailer share the common trait of being very readable, with RK being mostly very informative) .

    This edition from Saker is quite good and topical, but fails to refrain from the obligatory slanted reference to “Zionist malfeasance” and the related “chilling” undertones of a 9/11 conspiracy. Well, one supposes that the readership demands it.

    I will be rather pleasantly surprised, should your attempt to offer a rational view of the Holocaust not wake the bestiary into action.

    In hope therefore…..

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  21. I’ve had the unfortunate experience of working in half of those countries mentioned (South Africa, China, Brazil, Pakistan) and I’m going to tell you right now they aren’t a threat. Together they aren’t a threat.

    Their people are missing something that prevents them from attaining their true potential. As if they have many more generations to go before they break out of their mental loop of petty goals, Western-mimicking and predictable dreams.

    You think America has problems? You think Europe has problems? Go to these (BRICS + SCO) countries and you’ll see REAL problems. Foundational problems. Problems that other Western civilizations have solved and re-solved time and time again. The level of corruption, the gross incompetence on almost all levels (I once banged up my shin pretty bad; the Chinese local hospital doctor diagnosis: “Oh we have to cut the leg off”; the private American-operated German-staffed clinic cleaned it and stitched it up… incompetence or what? Don’t even get me started on the basic banking that takes 2 hours…), the ludicrous crimes, the nepotism and entitlement… it would stun any Westerner not familiar with those nations.

    If they can’t get their own house in order how are they going to work this out?

  22. There was the Holocaust of Jews during the WWII. There were horrible atrocities committed against the Jews, including mass executions of Jewish population in Eastern Europe.
    The problem of applying Never Again for Israelis only is the existence of Gaza “Disneyland” complete with collective punishment, humiliation, tortures, theft of natural resources, and other signs of treating others as subhumans. It does not help that some of the leading US neocons (the bloody warmongers on a global scale) are also the leading Zionists.

  23. (View from someone outside the bubble)

    The readership of this website is obsessed with the topics of immigration and race, and cannot conceive of the possibility that someone outside the echo chamber is not similarly hung up on these issues. The readership views the recent changes in the West as a calamity. Since those outside the bubble (liberals, capitalists, some Christians even) view these events with equanimity, or even express happiness at the demographic changes, the readership considers them to be traitors. Benign neglect (arising from a lack of obsession over racial differences and immigration) is assumed to be conspiracy. And if the powers-that-be are conspiring to undermine the white race of the West in so dastardly a manner, might they not be responsible for other crises that have murky events associated with them? Like 9/11 or the Holocaust?

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  24. You may want to say all those things but how they are related to what I had to say I find hard to discern. You remind me of the country jury trying a man charged with stealing a bull “Not Guilty as long as he gives the bull back”. So you clearly know that Russia hasn’t been merely defensive but you think it has all sorts of justifications. That’s a different discussion.

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  25. The minute I hear someone say something like “the US elites have put their full credibility behind the official 911 narrative against all empirical evidence,” I lose all confidence in their judgement. It’s lunacy on the same order as “All empirical evidence proves that the moon landing was faked.” Once someone says something like that, the jig is up. Nobody with any sense is going to take anything else they say seriously, even if some of the other things they have to say are perfectly reasonable and even insightful.

    So it really, really bothers me when Ron publishes something like this! The thing is, I’m actually quite sympathetic to much of what is published here, and I wish that many of the writers were more widely read. But I can’t really say I want the site to be more widely read, because it publishes too many articles by crackpots who threaten, simply by their presence on the same site, to discredit the authors I support. All of which makes me question Ron’s judgement, and the judgement of the writers who choose to be associated with him. Please Ron, lose the crackpots!

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  26. May I suggest that if you have so much trouble understanding and being satisfied that you understand how the world works without invoking a kind of modernequivalent of witchcraft explanation you should loosen up your imagination by examining the greatest stuff ups by “elites” since 1900.

    1. Outbreak of WW1
    2. 1929 crash and Great Depression
    3. Japan’s bubble, bust and lost decades
    4. “When geniuses failed” LTCM 1998
    5. Creation of the Eurozone on impossible terms for success
    6. Failure to prevent 2008 Global Financial Crisis….

  27. Who set aside the comments for this blog in particular as a playground where slow-witted, self-important concern trolls could frolic and disport themselves to their hearts’ content?

  28. American insistence on treating all non-vassals as enemies is pushing them together. If America felt seriously threatened she could turn on the charm and do a lot to win over many of these nations, but their lack of aggressive intent discourages that. It is the lack of aggression by Russia, China etc that allows America to continue to treat them all aggressively, and thus ensure their continued partnership.

  29. says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Yes, but Russia’s geostrategical interests may then not be so important to them after all as they are for you.

  30. I’m thrilled to see the Saker on here! I’ve been reading him pretty much daily for close to two years, because he discusses issues that are unknown in the west, cultures and history that are completely opaque to non-Russians, and features guests, like PKR that are anathema to the mainstream, including one Andrew Korybko that has written the single best essay on the Great Game (current edition) I’ve ever read:

    http://thesaker.is/eastring-vs-balkan-stream-the-battle-for-greece/

    If you want to know all about celebrities, read the msm. If you want to know that, for instance, that the Ukrainians are shelling their own civilians at this moment, read the Saker. I realise there is a battle of propagandists raging, and “we” are losing badly, because a turd can only be polished so much. If you can’t stand the crackpots to the point of ignoring anything true that they write, by all means, proceed back to Yahoo or little green footballs where ignorance is bliss, war is peace, and there is no Fourth Way.

  31. I did a search for the BBC reporting of the WTC 7 collapse which you proffered as the compelling “real evidence” that 9/11 was – well what? – apart from some dark deed that the US government and maybe Israel had something to do with for reasons known only to little green men from Mars?

    The reason was for a pretext to get Americans willing to go to war against Israel’s enemies in the Middle East. They needed a “new Peal Harbor”. It also had tones of ancillary benefits like removing our freedoms and increasingly making Americans more and more like Palestinians, with check points and surveillance and even assassinations when they want to do that too.

    I hate to think Ron is giving space to people whose mad warped view of the world is like that of the obsessives I found blogging on the BBC page where conspiracy was denied.

    You’re not suggesting my voice be silenced are you?

    Suppose the BBC reporter who found herself in NYC that morning with an extraordinary story to understand and to try and tell on TV did say 20 minutes before WTC 7 came down that it had collapsed. So what?

    would you say the same thing if she had reported on the first plane hitting the Trade Center before it did? The collapse of Building Seven even today can not be explained. How could she have anticipated something that today structural engineers are saying is an impossibility?

    No conspiracy and nothing puzzling or sinister. And it is you that has to explain why it is sinister if the building could be seen still standing behind in the TV picture. No conspirator would want such a stuff up.

    No, they wouldn’t, would they. It proves advance knowledge, and it wasn’t Osama bin Boogey man who was handing her the script. It was someone very high up in the BBC.

    You seem sincere in your naiveté. I’ve talked to other people who are of good will and told them of the BBC reporting on the building and the implications. They too seemed incredulous. It is quite something to wrap one’s head around if you haven’t given all of this a lot of thought and research. Since I’m a natural skeptic, I’ve been looking behind the curtain now for a while, so even tho this was a hard leap for me as well, I can only imagine what it’s like for most people who’ve been sincerely following the official script as if it was the truth.

  32. Is there to be no discussion about the veracity of the official 911 narrative?

    Are all people, including the thousands of architects and engineers, physicists and those who lost loved ones on that day, and have serious questions about the government official version, including members of the 911 commission itself who now say the report was a whitewash, are they all to be dismissed as ‘lunatics’?

    Do you feel the same way about the JFK assassination?

    The Golf of Tonkin incident?

    Are the people who point out that the government and media lied about the Gulf of Tonkin ‘lunatics’

    The next time our government lies about WMD, should we all click our collective heals and goose step into another catastrophic war because to doubt the media and government would be “lunacy”?

  33. This is a brilliant article – it clarifies – it gives us the big long term picture.

    The point that the Russia/China relationship is a symbiotic economic one is most instructive. The idea that Pakistan and India are in the same economic association is major.

    The idea that the Western governments are controlled by the Anglo-Zionist central banking cartel – whereas the BRICS are still controlled by their governments, says everything about our current situation. It is so bad that the Western governments can NEVER pay back the Zionist central bankers – because of that debt, Zionism owns the people of the West.

    The US having military bases all over the world is so last century – nobody wants a world war – only the crazed Zionists. Why are we antagonizing and attacking and killing the most backward people on the planet? We have been sucked into doing stupid.

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  34. After Wizard of Oz’s first comment my zio-radar went off and this was then confirmed a few comments later. It’s really quite easy to tell the trolls apart. They’re not having much success, God love them. Their arguments are so weak it takes incredible cognitive distortions and double think to fall for them.

  35. “The US fosters opposition to the obscenely corrupt Russia oriented President of the Ukraine and Russia reacts”

    Your silly little euphemisms…. fosters opposition….for the US overthrowing a duly elected government proves that you really are from the land of Oz.

    The US has no business in the Ukraine period.

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  36. As I remember the Wizard of Oz was a frightened little man standing on a box behind a curtain pretending to know everything.

    You have chosen your pseudonym well.

    You are a sycophant for the hegemonic US government and power elite who prosper from it’s actions.

  37. Just another wacko anti-Semite fanatic. I was expecting the Rosicrucians or the Illuminati to make an appearance. Shame that Ron allows this kind of crackpot on….

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  38. says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    I don’t believe your reply and request for evidence is honest. But for the sake of other readers:

    Burning jet fuel that melts steel has been one of the attempted “explanations”. I have a solid background in chemistry, structural engineering, materials science, and mathematics through advanced calculus and applied analysis.

    Steel structures simply do not collapse that way. This is why there are thousands of engineers and architects who have gone on record as saying the official story is wrong.

    I don’t believe your comment is honest because samples from the whole area were analyzed and found to contain thermite with particles in nanometer range, not necessarily a detonating explosive but nearly so and easily able to cut through structural steel instantly.
    This analysis was published in a respected peer reviewed scientific journal, freely available and widely reported on the internet. The evidence is clear and freely accessible. Anyone who wants to know can find it. which means you could easily have found it but didn’t.
    Why is that? I assume by your writing that you are intelligent enough to research these things, so you must have some other agenda. What would that be?

  39. It is the writers belief that is really in Oz’s sites. As for the 911 reference there is plenty of testimony from architects, engineers, and demolitions experts available online to prove the naysayers lazy.

  40. Just have a look at the map of all the Shanghai Cooperation Organization members now that Pakistan and India signed the paperwork today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation

    Isn’t this precisely what the Anglo-American foreign policy establishment has dreaded since the days of Halford Mackinder? More than a few times in the last 12 years I’ve had my doubts about the competence of the Anglospherical foreign policy experts we have working on our behalf. Well they sometimes say they’re working on our behalf …

    In other Eurasian news, the delightful Prosecutor of Crimea and internet sensation, Natalia Poklonskaya has come out strongly as a Czarist. From an official Russian Orthodox website:

    Natalia Poklonskaya: the blessed virgin leads our Russia
    Simferopol, July 10, 2015

    In an interview with “KP” Natalia Poklonskaya answered the question, why is she so kind to Holy Royal passion-bearer Emperor Nicholas Alexandrovich and also asked “do you believe in a return monarchy?”

    “A terrible crime was committed when Tsar Nicholas Alexandrovich was deposed, ” replied the Prosecutor of the Crimea, “and a brutal murder of his whole family was committed. What is better and what will be is monarchy, the Republic is not really my thing.

    Run the link through the translator of your choice: http://www.pravoslavie.ru/news/80565.htm

    Other stories linked at the bottom are:
    Natalia Poklonskaya: We must keep sacred the memory of the Victory
    Natalia Poklonskaya: Unique weapons Russia – the power of the spirit of our people
    Natalia Poklonskaya proposed to erect a monument to Nicholas II in the Livadia Palace
    Natalia Poklonskaya gave Livadia Palace photo collection of the Royal Family

    There’s a video of her playing piano in the old Czar’s palace in that last one:

    http://www.pravoslavie.ru/news/74546.htm

  41. “Russia hasn’t been merely defensive…”
    Well, it would be great if you elaborate on your statement. What would you do if the empire’s vassals were encircling your country? This is a childish question that you have provoked. It is hard for the neocons’ apologists to deny the fraternization of the US State Dept. with east-European neo-nazis and the US active involvement in selecting head of state in Ukraine. Should the RF be sheepishly defensive in response to the crazy and bloodthirsty speeches of NATO’ big shots and in response to the US-orchestrated coup-d’etat in a country that borders the RF?
    Here is a succinct statement re the problem we face today because of the RF/US conflict in Ukraine (thousands miles away from the US borders, by the way): “American insistence on treating all non-vassals as enemies is pushing them together.” And here is an expression of the “vassalage” doctrine: “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists” (Bush the Lesser, 2001).
    Surely, the Russian Federation has its own problems, some of them quite nasty. But how come that the US has discovered – and then often bombed to smithereens – so many “enemies” during the post-WWII period? Would you qualify the US stance as not “merely defensive?”

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  42. “Just another wacko anti-Semite fanatic.”

    Now now – little hasbara lemming – that is not nice!

    Hearing the truth is good thing – particularly for little lemmings who will follow their leaders anywhere.

  43. Germany will be a major supplier to Russia and China of high quality manufactured goods and scientific instruments. Russia and Germany are already building high speed rail lines to connect Berlin with Moscow, and eventually on to China. This is happening now.

  44. This explains the Ukrainian/Russian problem perfectly:

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  45. @justification of your “Anglo-Zionist” usage. Well informed certainly, but then Himmler was too, and so were your co-religionists who concocted The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

    “Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum (Latin for “reduction to Hitler”, with Hitlerus serving as a Latinized form of Hitler’s name), is a term coined by philosopher Leo Strauss in 1951.
    According to Strauss, Reductio ad Hitlerum is a form of ad hominem or ad misericordiam, a fallacy of irrelevance, in which a conclusion is suggested based solely on something’s or someone’s origin rather than its current meaning. The suggested rationale is one of guilt by association. Its name is a variation on the term reductio ad absurdum.
    Reductio ad Hitlerum is sometimes called “playing the Nazi card.” According to its critics and proponents, it is a tactic often used to derail arguments, because such comparisons tend to distract and anger the opponent” (Wikipedia).

    @you accept as true matters which are unsupported by evidence, on faith presumably

    No facts? “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck”.
    If it looks as an Anglo, speaks Anglo, is a worshiper of Israel, marries Jewesses, wants to re-build the Temple on Zion, considers his religious duty to send as much money as he could to Israel (like the Temple tax!), denounces any criticism of Israel (equated with antisemitism) as thoughtcrime and demands harsh punishment for the offenders, covering them with insults, never adressing the substance of the criticism, but answering by changing the subject and turning the blame on the questioner, then probably he is an Anglo-Zionist (I suspect that he actually is, albeit pretending to be just an “unbeliever”).

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  46. Good stuff, Mr. Vineyard (do you grow grapes in FL?)

    But this statement is problematic:

    re “Terminology: Anglo-Zionist: http://thesaker.is/terminology/

    “Fifth, both Zionism and Nazism are twin brothers born from the same ugly womb: 19th century European nationalism (Brecht was right, “The belly is still fertile from which the foul beast sprang”). Nazis and Zionists can hate each other to their hearts’ content, but they are still twins.”

    No they are not they are Cain and Abel, and Nazism, like Abel, is dead.

    Max Hastings is Britain’s preeminent historian of the Great Wars. I think he’s a propagandist but he’s been knighted for his work writing about the bravery of the British in fighting Nazis, and one must defer to the queen.

    Hastings said this in a 2013 interview:

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?312130-1/book-discussion-max-hastings

    @ 5 min:
    Slen (Interviewer): “Do we know enough about Russia’s role in the war?”

    Hastings: “ . . . Nowadays we are getting more grown up about understanding that the Russians did most of the heavy lifting.
    But they do not deserve most of the credit because one of the awful truths is that Roosevelt and Churchill constructed this great legend of this grand alliance, Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill. And yet the truth was that Stalin’s tyranny was every bit as evil as Hitler’s tyranny. The only thing that makes Stalin that much less wicked than Hitler was he had no single enormity to match the holocaust, the massacre of the Jews. But in every other respect Stalin’s Russia was an equally dreadful place.

    As Wally said, above,

    “That moronic crap is based upon the pathetic notion of “Holocaust Inc.”, which is now being tossed into the dust bin of false history.
    Every debate with a Jew ends up in the Auschwitz Disneyland, hence the reason for concocting the world’s biggest fraud in the first place. “

    The holocaust tale is as fabulous as the 9/11 lies; both were conceived by the same Anglo-Zionists to perpetuate their regime.

    If that is so, that the holocaust is a fraud, then Hasting’s calculus is fundamentally flawed: Nazism/Hitler was/is not the “most wicked” entity of all time.

    I argue that the German NSDAP story is the least-told story, and the most lied-about story in modern history.

    It’s time to tell that story fully.

    The Anglo-Zionist wars against the Ottoman empire and the Germans (and other assorted Europeans) in collusion with the Jew-vs-Jew civil war that played itself out on European soil, have not been fully and truthfully explored.

    Russians, and especially Americans and the British share the zionist need to maintain the holocaust fantasy in order to keep the full horror of that story from being told.

    Early this year Robert Cohen wrote on Mondoweiss:

    Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews.

    We know the why and how “today’s school children” got that zany idea. The question most school children — or adults — cannot answer is Why DID Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin (and zionists) go to war against Hitler?

    It’s time to start telling the truth, dammit.

    —-

    below is more of Hastings’ declamations about the “wickedness” of Stalin.
    Hastings was not capable of seeing any wickedness at all in FDR and Churchill (and zionists) who, fully aware of Bolshevik Russia’s genocidal acts well before Hitler was on the horizon, employed Stalin as their Orca.

    Ivan Karamazov suffers a psychological break-down over the thought that he incited his half-brother, Pavel Fyodorovich Smerdyakov, to kill their father. Ivan spends the rest of his life attempting to free his brother Dmitri, who was convicted of the crime.

    FDR died in the company of his mistress, and Churchill lived on fat and happy at Chartwell, his brow uncreased by fears that he had set in motion mass murder of an unprecedented scale.

    Who is the psychopath?

    As for Max Hastings, he appears not to have thought through the moral implications of a leader and nation that would “ally” with a genocidal maniac as “wicked” as Stalin.

    In 1941, when Russia cam into the war, at that time, Stalin had killed far more people than Hitler. Stalin had massacred millions upon millions of his own people in purges and famines and all the dreadful things that had gone on in his rule in the 13 years before the war came.

    But on the other hand we had cause to be very grateful to the Russians. An awful lot of young Americans and young British men survived the second world war who wouldn’t ‘ve done if a lot of Russian soldiers hadn’t died. . . . So the Russians did a lot of the heavy lifting but I don’t think we have any reason to be terribly grateful to Stalin; Stalin was an unbelievably wicked man. .”

    One thing that’s very scary today — If you went to Berlin and you saw a taxi driver had a picture of Hitler on his windscreen you would think it was something terrible, it’s unthinkable that that would happen. But in Moscow they’ve still got a lot of pictures of Stalin on the taxi driver’s wind screens. Putin, Vladimir Putin goes around saying that Stalin was a wonderful man! He still thinks that ! Many Russians are taught in school that Stalin may have got a few things wrong but he was basically a good man.

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  47. I just found a video at YouTube with 1.3 million views that is Sheikh Imran Hussien speaking in English (with Russian subtitles) about how Putin’s intervention in Crimea was the hand of Allah at work. He describes it as the first great victory against the Zionists in a hundred years. Sheikh Hussien has a European speaking tour planned this summer on the topic of “Islam, the petrodollar and Russia’s rendez-vous with it’s destiny”. He’s going to be speaking in Athens and in Geneva, along with the alt-right author Piero San Georgio. The Geneva talk is being promoted at Alain Soral’s site.

    I bring all this up just to point out the evidence that brand new coalitions and friendships are forming amongst all sorts of people with “issues” when it comes to the Euro-Atlantic consensus. The SCO/BRICS summit in Russia is a massive shift but there are also these little shifts and changes happening in the West as well. Interesting times ahead.

    The video is at YouTube with the title: Шейх Имран объясняет непонимающим ситуацию на Украине очень доходчиво He’s speaking in English though.

  48. Why? Their internal governance is irrelevant. Do you demand that your grocer have polite children, keep his lawn just the way you would, and go to church before you buy vegetables from him? That is what the US/EU hegemon does. They insist on political, labor and environmental control of countries they do business with. (allow to profit)
    BRICS says business is business and security is security. It is not a merge or alliance. it is an infrastructure for live and let live development. People control their own polity.
    Busy body control freak USA just can’t get their head around that.

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  49. But, they waste people’s time.

  50. Well you don’t appear to be one of the maddies shut in their bedrooms with earphones on and connected to the world since adolescence by computer only. Still it would help to read what I said and what I was replying to. It was the absurd suggestion that Russia did not engage in aggression but was only acting defensively. Trolls who say such ridiculous things should surely be exposed if one has the energy should they not?

    As it happens I have just been talking to an old very Australian friend who listens to the news in Ukrainian and Russian every morning and has a son who has just started a specialised publishing business in Kiev instead of SE Asia (because the collapse of the currency makes his costs very low). There is no one I have read on the Unz Review who comes anywhere near their knowledge of what has been happening in the Ukraine. Indeed when I raised the question of the US’s part in the Maidan affair he told me he actually knows the Afghan born journalist (a young refugee in the Ukraine) who organised the original demonstration as soon as he heard that the President was backsliding on the agreement with the EU. What happened next was that the army or police beat them up and the reaction to that all over the Ukraine was to bring out more protestors. What about the idea that the President was “democratically elected”. Rubbish. He named one oligarch owned company with 300,000 employees who were required to vote (any old fashioned trade unionist will know how that works) for Russia’s man. That was apparently typical.

    Russian weapons? Well the area in eastern Ukraine now under rebel control has lost half its population including a million leaving for Russia but this enclave of 1.5 million people has 750 tanks – more than any western European country I understand though the figure itself says enough.

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  51. I have never been an enthusiast about international law or worthy multistate treaties on human rights but I wonder what you think about all those human rights, refugee and other treaties which were madein the aftermath of WW2. Did they not clearly presuppose that pressure at least would be applied to backsliding governments. And what about the international criminal jurisduction including the innovations of the last two decades? (Of course the typical American reaction to these has been not to sign up in case American soldiers were caught up in proceedings which might be merely political or just embarrassing.)

  52. It would be agreeable when people use any old hook to give them the excuse for a rant on their usual obsessional lines if they at least did others the courtesy of a fair reading. My point about Himmler and the authors of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was simply a way of moderating the gratuitous compliment I had just offered to Saker, no more no less, and could not reasonably be regarded as an attack on him. It said that being knowledgeable wasn’t enough to enable an opinion to be formed beyond the fact that he was knowledgeable.

    And you took up the wrong end of the stick on my reference to his standards of proof. I was simply drawing attention to the logical inference to be drawn from his being (Orthodox) Christian. Perhaps he doesn’t believe that Jesus was the son of a virgin. But I presume he is asserting belief in the divinity of Jesus, that “he was crucified, dead and buried… on the third day he rose again from the dead…”. If so I question his reasons for believing other asserted facts.

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  53. Punditry, punditry, punditry…sounds like a Thomas Friedman editorial, only from a slightly different orientation.

    The Sacker has a picture of MLK on his website, hates racism, and loves Everyone, as long as they join up with Russia.

    Russia and China as two peas in a pod, with convergent economic interests is only slightly true. The Chinese are not human, Russians are human, but with some yet to be ironed-out kinks given their corruption by communism…the usual cronyismj and gangsterism. Of course in this respect the Chinks and the Russians can understand one-another. for now.

    As time goes by, the racial differences will drive them apart, but the sacker thinks there are no racial differences, that we are all Equal, and other childish fancies. But he IS a pundit who thinks Big.

    Joe Webb

  54. The ultimate give away in your fantasy posts is in the expression “Zionist central bankers”. Please don’t waste our time with stuff that you know nothing about. You obviously don’t know even what the central banks are. The most important central banks are the Fed, the Bank of England, the ECB, the Bank of Japan and the Chinese central bank. Can you name a single Zionist with any influence in any of them? And if they did have great influence what central bank policies would assist the Zionist cause?

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  55. “…Just like the US elites have put their full credibility behind the official 911 narrative against all empirical evidence…”

    Thanks for this. It is imperative that this is pointed out repeatedly. The evidence for building #1 and #2 being demoed are huge but building #7 is just completely undeniable. Building #7 fell the same speed as a bowling ball dropped in mid air for roughly 108 feet. This is impossible. Even molten steel has some resistance to slow the fall. Any person with any common sense can see this. It’s shows just how screwed up our country is that they’ve so far been able to get away with it.

  56. You really want us to believe THAT rubbish?

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  57. Bazaar gossip regurgitated as if it were gospel truth? Watch out for the Scarecrow, idiot! You are infringing to a really quite unacceptable extent on his privilege of not having any brain.

  58. @ Annamarina, Seraphim, Realist Why should I suppose you know what you are talking about when you say that the US spent $5 billion “fomenting a violent putsch” against a democratically elected government? Have you been to the Ukraine? If so, when and for how long? Do you speak Russian and/or Ukrainian?

    When you say “democratically” elected (“duly elected” is Realist’s description though with no indication of how he knows) what qualifies by your standards? Were there election monitors from other countries as in quite a number of elections around the world in recent decades? If so, what did they report?

    Do you deny that the election was in fact a heavily corrupted one with many people forced to vote for the candidate favoured by the oligarchy employer? Does that still leave the label “democratic” in place and, more important, does it still carry the moral weight that you seem to attach to “democratic”.

    As I said in reply to Annamarina

    “As it happens I have just been talking to an old very Australian friend who listens to the news in Ukrainian and Russian every morning and has a son who has just started a specialised publishing business in Kiev instead of SE Asia (because the collapse of the currency makes his costs very low). There is no one I have read on the Unz Review who comes anywhere near their knowledge of what has been happening in the Ukraine. Indeed when I raised the question of the US’s part in the Maidan affair he told me he actually knows the Afghan born journalist (a young refugee in the Ukraine) who organised the original demonstration as soon as he heard that the President was backsliding on the agreement with the EU. What happened next was that the army or police beat them up and the reaction to that all over the Ukraine was to bring out more protestors. What about the idea that the President was “democratically elected”. Rubbish. He named one oligarch owned company with 300,000 employees who were required to vote (any old fashioned trade unionist will know how that works) for Russia’s man. That was apparently typical.

    Russian weapons? Well the area in eastern Ukraine now under rebel control has lost half its population including a million leaving for Russia but this enclave of 1.5 million people has 750 tanks – more than any western European country I understand though the figure itself says enough.”

    To which I see Seraphim has made the clever and euphonious response “You really want us to believe THAT rubbish?” Well no actually. I was simply pointing out that, on a subject on which I have no emotion involved I have just found someone who has credentials for knowledge of and credibility about the Ukraine that I have not perceived in anyone on this blog, and who tells me those things – and another item which I shall add next.

    He happens to be a 60 year old successful management consultant, formerly full professor at a respected university, published author on WW1 related matters and someone who is as kind, sunny and honest as anyone I have ever met. No doubt he might have some trouble firming up every item of evidence as for a cross-examination but I have no reason to doubt what he told me. As to the Malaysian airliner brought down by the rebels in mistake for it being a Ukrainian air force plane he said he has seen – and says they are easily findable – the half hour apart news reports on a Moscow TV station in which the news by the same presenter in the first said the rebels had just brought down a Ukrainian air force plane and in the second said the Ukrainian air force had just shot down a civil airliner!!

    I trust your research skills are up to finding that. What do you make of it?

    And by the way to those who are shocked that some organised neo-Nazis might have allied themselves to the anti-Russian side, apparently there was a 100 strong Jewish contingent too, of whom 6 were amongst the 100 heroes commemorated as killed in Maidan square.

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  59. There is still something odd about Ron’s software that I haven’t mastered. That last post was meant to be addressed to Rurik, Realist, Seraphim and Annamarina…..

  60. @the logical inference to be drawn from his being (Orthodox) Christian.

    The logical inference you draw is that Orthodox Christian equates Hitler/Himmler. His belief in the divinity of Jesus is “the reason for believing other asserted facts”. Other “asserted facts” being the ones that irked you so much.

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  61. And by the way. My knowledgeable friend of Ukrainian descent cited opinion polls in which 80 per cent of Ukrainians but only 20 per cent of Russians said they identified with Europe (or maybe it was “regarded themselves as Europeans”).
    That seems to me worth considering especially when some people are trying to attach weight to the fact that the Ukraine was once part of the Czar’s empire…

  62. And by the way. My knowledgeable friend of Ukrainian descent cited opinion polls in which 80 per cent of Ukrainians but only 20 per cent of Russians said they identified with Europe (or maybe it was “regarded themselves as Europeans”).
    That seems to me worth considering especially when some people are trying to attach weight to the fact that the Ukraine was once part of the Czar’s empire…

  63. I have a friend, the kindest, warmest, most wonderful human being I have ever met in my life. He says he has seen – and says they are easily findable – videos in which you rape a choirboy! I trust your research skills are up to finding that. What do you make of it?

  64. ” …I have just been talking to an old very Australian friend who listens to the news … he has a son who has just started a business in Kiev because the collapse of the currency makes his costs very low… he told me he actually knows the Afghan born journalist….”
    Sorry if this sounds offending, but how old are you and have you been told by an MD about age-related cognitive problems?
    The former president of Ukraine was an oligarch and thief, but he was indeed elected. The current president is a oligarch and thief that had been “elected” when a bug chunk of Ukrainian population did not participate in the voting. Why they did not vote? – because these east Ukrainians wanted federalization (you know, like in the US). For this wish, the east Ukrainians were attacked by the west Ukrainians; this civil war was initiated, most likely, on a strong advice of Poroschenko’s main benefactors at the US Depart.; the US “representatives” have been entrenched in Kiev since the Maidan Revolution.
    In case you do indeed have problems with your memory, there are the direct evidence of the US involvement in the revolution on the border of the Russian Federation, including the recorded obscene conversation of Nuland-Kagan with Pyatt; the visit of the Director of CIA to Kiev on the eve of the beginning of the civil war in Ukraine (this visit was supposed to be covert); the participation of the paramilitary from Lviv during Maidan; these thugs fired indiscriminately to make more mess (listen to Ashton conversation on this matter); and – the cherry on a pie – the US cooperation with neo-Nazis. Here you can see the progeny of east-European jews, Nuland-Kagan, fraternizing with the neo-nazi leaders. Another “cherry” has been Israeli citizen Kolomojsky (actually, this oligarch and thief has acquired triple citizenship), a sponsor of the neo-nazi Azov battalion.
    Are you really surprised that Russia could consider measures that are more than defensive when the US have been fomenting disorder on the RF border? Do you believe that the insane Breedlove (caught on his lies again and again) and a score of opportunists like him at NATO are the trustworthy partners for the RF? You may benefit by looking on a map showing the territory of NATO activities. For now, the Russian Federation has been showing a lot of restrain considering the stupidity and mendacity of the neocon-infested US government.
    Next time you invoke the memory of Holocaust victims, think about the sponsor of Azov battalion (Mr. Kolomojsky, the president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine). The warriors of this battalion have a distinction of burring people alive, while laughing. And do not forget to look at smiling Nuland-Kagan (from the family business of warmongering) in a company of the Ukrainian me-nazis.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-has-installed-a-neo-nazi-government-in-ukraine/5371554

    http://rt.com/usa/white-house-confirms-cia-ukraine-448/

    http://rt.com/usa/266869-conyers-azov-training-amendment/

    http://freeukrainenow.org/2015/04/27/the-key-man-behind-the-odessa-trade-unions-building-massacre-his-many-connections-to-the-white-house/

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  65. Thanks for all of that. Saved me the trouble.

    I don’t know if the ‘wizard’ is a sincere dupe or a completely dishonest ideologue, but it makes for a good foil

    I posted this somewhere else, but it’s a video of Kolomoysky laughing about how his mercs tried to shoot (apparently) Putin’s jet out of the sky and shot the Malaysian jet by mistake. Not to worry, it’s a “trifle”. Just image if a Russian official had made this video, how the west would be apoplectic.

  66. Please stop babbling about “Russian Weapons”; virtually all the arms in use by both sides are Russian. The ukes would like to have more modern American arms, but somehow they’re all going to ISIS.

  67. The second-most important thing the Saker touched on is the extent to which the Anglo-Zionists are “in denial.”

    Wiz of Oz’s and fellow travelers desperate attempt to divert reflect that state of denial.

    There’s a serious question where Israel will go and what Israel will do.

    Yossi Alpher recently discussed his book, Periphery Doctrine, with Bruce Reidel at Brookings. In the discussion Alpher said:

    “And I identify from Ben- Gurion’s day, from the ‘50s, four grand strategies, which is really quite extraordinary. I mean, you have a country that’s just been born, a leader who is totally self taught in the military and strategic arts, and we have four grand strategies —
    [1] periphery doctrine is one,

    [2] a nuclear deterrent is another,

    [3] a great power, or super power ally, is a third. In the War of Independence, it was briefly Russia via Czechoslovakia, then Britain, then France, and that intermeshed with the nuclear issues, and since ’67, the United States.

    [4] And the fourth was the ingathering of the exiles. Mass immigration, and here Ben-Gurion radically slashed military budgets. Yigael Yadin, the second chief of staff, resigned in protest and Ben-Gurion said, I need the money to bring hundreds of thousands of holocaust survivors, Moroccan Jews, Iraqi Jews, and give us critical mass. “

    Where will Israel go now?

    With whom will Israel form a superpower alliance?

    Will Israel keep its arms wrapped around the USA neck as the USA goes down, or (more likely) will Israel kick USA as the superpower’s military life jacket deflates, and Israel puts into play the strategy Shalom Wald drafted on Israel-China relations for the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute under the direction of Dennis Ross?

    Alpher said that, in the absence of Iran, formerly one of its three periphery pillars, Israel was establishing a periphery relationship with Saudi Arabia. What’s fascinating about this is that Periphery Doctrine’s raison d’être was protection against the surrounding, hostile Arabs!

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  68. The official narrative of 9/11 is a physical impossibility.

    Commercial airliners cannot be flown at or near sea level at – according to the claims of the NTSB – air speeds well above their maximum operating capacity at cruising altitude (approximately 35,000 feet).

    Amateur pilots (one was not even allowed to rent a single engine Cessna because he was unable to control it in flight) could not perform miracles of aviation which experienced airline pilots with time in type could not duplicate in a professional simulator with crash logic enabled.

    A light, hollow, mostly aluminum and fiberglass fuselage and light aluminum wings cannot withstand impact with fourteen inch wide perimeter box columns consisting of four sides of one quarter inch structural steel, much sturdier steel spandrels and concrete floor pans. Most of the aircraft would have been shredded and fallen to the street below the point of impact; the jet fuel would likely have ignited on the outside of the building.

    The alleged flight path of UA 77 (which is claimed to have struck the Pentagon) is a physical impossibility. A Boeing 757 cannot be flown at such high speeds a few feet above ground level due to ground effect; there is no evidence whatsoever that a commercial airliner crashed into the Pentagon.

    A gravity collapse due to hydrocarbon based office fires could not possibly account for the destruction of the Twin Towers. Most of the Towers were literally disintegrated and blown across lower Manhattan in a dust cloud.

    All indications point to small nuclear devices planted in the sub basement levels: electromagnetic pulse – vehicles not struck by debris or close to any fires burst into flame while pieces of office paper did not combust. There were seismic events consistent with underground explosions; there was a mushroom cloud and a fireball (look at the videos of the collapse of WTC1) which is identical to that produced by a small tactical nuclear explosion. In addition, there were fires raging for months after 9/11, fires so hot they could not be cooled by water.

    (There are small nuclear weapons which produce very little fallout.)

    These are just a few of the reasons the official story cannot possibly be true.

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  69. “Will Israel keep its arms wrapped around the USA neck as the USA goes down, or (more likely) will Israel kick USA as the superpower’s military life jacket deflates, and Israel puts into play the strategy Shalom Wald drafted on Israel-China relations for the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute under the direction of Dennis Ross?”

    I’m not sure if this is any indication, but I always took it as such: Formerly a reader of The New Yorker, I would see the occasional article over the years discussing Jews cuddling up to China, from kosher inspectors of Chinese food to Jewish businessmen working with China. I think once the US has successfully been transmogrified into a 3rd-world cesspool, we’ll be thrown to the curb like the cheap whore we are.

  70. Well that’s a relief. After being cslled from the other side of the world late on 11th September 2001 my time I have this memory of seeing airliners fly into the twin towers. Thank G it didm’t happen.

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  71. says:
    • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Nice to see government trolls (or paid subcontractors) RE: 09/11.

    All the information on the topic by engineers is here:

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/05/important-ae911truth-seeks-aia-call-911-investigation/

    &

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/09/10/911-13-years-paul-craig-roberts/

    According to the official story, on September 11, 2001, the vaunted National Security State of the World’s Only Superpower was defeated by a few young Saudi Arabians armed only with box cutters. The American National Security State proved to be totally helpless and was dealt the greatest humiliation ever inflicted on any country claiming to be a power.

    That day no aspect of the National Security State worked. Everything failed.

    The US Air Force for the first time in its history could not get interceptor jet fighters into the air.

    The National Security Council failed.

    All sixteen US intelligence agencies failed as did those of America’s NATO and Israeli allies.

    Air Traffic Control failed.

    Airport Security failed four times at the same moment on the same day. The probability of such a failure is zero.

    If such a thing had actually happened, there would have been demands from the White House, from Congress, and from the media for an investigation. Officials would have been held accountable for their failures. Heads would have rolled.

    Instead, the White House resisted for one year the 9/11 families’ demands for an investigation. Finally, a collection of politicians was assembled to listen to the government’s account and to write it down. The chairman, vice chairman, and legal counsel of the 9/11 Commission have said that information was withheld from the commission, lies were told to the commission, and that the commission “was set up to fail.” The worst security failure in history resulted in not a single firing. No one was held responsible.

    Washington concluded that 9/11 was possible because America lacked a police state.

    The PATRIOT Act, which was awaiting the event was quickly passed by the congressional idiots. The Act established executive branch independence of law and the Constitution. The Act and follow-up measures have institutionalized a police state in “the land of the free.”

    Osama bin Laden, a CIA asset dying of renal failure, was blamed despite his explicit denial. For the next ten years Osama bin Laden was the bogyman that provided the excuse for Washington to kill countless numbers of Muslims. Then suddenly on May 2, 2011, Obama claimed that US Navy SEALs had killed bin Laden in Pakistan. Eyewitnesses on the scene contradicted the White House’s story. Osama bin Laden became the only human in history to survive renal failure for ten years. There was no dialysis machine in what was said to be bin Laden’s hideaway. The numerous obituaries of bin Laden’s death in December 2001 went down the memory hole. And the SEAL team died a few weeks later in a mysterious helicopter crash in Afghanistan. The thousands of sailors on the aircraft carrier from which bin Laden was said to have been dumped into the Indian Ocean wrote home that no such burial took place.

  72. Man, so much nonsense in one post. You’ve hit all the fake-news talking points that Russians transmit.

    They spent five billion dollars fomenting a violent putsch against a democratically elected (if admittedly corrupt) government.

    The five billion dollars alluded to was the sum total of all foreign aid since independence in 1991. The full quote was “Since Ukraine’s independence in 1991 the United States have supported Ukrainians to build democratic skills and institutions as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are pre-conditions for Ukraine to achieve the European aspirations. We have invested over 5 bn dollars to assist Ukraine in these goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous democratic Ukraine” That includes stuff like funding for hospitals, capital investments, grants to schools, etc. Over 20 years. I don’t think they were planning to overthrow Yanukovich in 1991.

    Crimea has been a part of Russia for hundreds of years.

    So was Poland, Finland, and the Baltics. Ireland was British for far longer. How long did Serbia belong to the Ottomans?

    Crimea was annexed in 1783. As late as 1897 only about a third of its people were ethnic Russians (feel free to google the Russian census of 1897). It was a hotbed of the White movement, so many of the native Russians there were probably slaughtered by the Bolsheviks. Thus, Crimea’s Russian-ness is a 20th century Soviet phenomenon and most of Crimea’s native ethnic Russians are the descendants of Soviet-era settlers. It’s a place where their people have lived for decades, not centuries.

    Currently the majority of Crimea’s people are Russians and prefer to be part of Russia, but don’t pretend that this situation is ancient or historical, rather than quite recent. Kosovo has been majority-Albanian much longer than Crimea has been majority-Russian.

    In fact the ‘break-away’ parts of Ukraine that we’re talking about were part of Russia too until the 1950s when (Ukrainian) Khrushchev incorporated them in into the Ukraine

    Nope. Khrushchev gave Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR in the 1950s. Not the rebel regions.

    This is fairly basic history.

    They’re Russians and speak Russian

    They speak Russian (as does Kiev, as Dublin speaks English) but the population in Donbas was less than half ethnic Russian. Donetsk oblast was 38% Russian and Luhansk oblast 39.1% Russian in the last census. The urban, rebel-controlled parts may be around 50% ethnic Russian.

    Nuland installed the neo-Nazis in Kiev, they passed laws against the Russian speaking peoples

    I assume you are alluding to the infamous language bill that were never signed and thus never became law.

    Soon after the revolution the post-revolutionary Ukrainian parliament passed a bill that cancelled the 2011 language law, reverting Ukraine’s linguistic situation to how it had been prior to 2011. That would have given Russian the same status in Ukraine as Spanish has in the USA. Are Spanish-speakers persecuted in the USA?

    Of course, the law was never signed so it never became a law in Ukraine. It just became fodder for hysterical and ignorant enemies of Ukraine’s new government.

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  73. The most important central banks are the Fed, the Bank of England, the ECB, the Bank of Japan and the Chinese central bank. Can you name a single Zionist with any influence in any of them?

    Hey Wiz – how about Greenspan et al – the Fed has been run by Jews for over 30 years straight.

    You hasbara lemmings are a joke!

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  74. The principles of ballistics and simple physics, such as Newton’s Third Law do not succumb to the claims of mass media, however authoritatively proclaimed.

    Some flying objects probably hit the Twin Towers – but they were not passenger airliners. Have you ever seen the damage even a collision at high speeds with a large bird – a light bunch of feathers, thin skin and a hard beak – can cause the fuselage of a passenger airliner? Now imagine a collision with the massive perimeter box columns and concrete floors of the WTC.

    There is an enormous amount of cognitive dissonance among the demographic that accepts the official version. Even when shown an abundance of evidence that the official version is a manifestly ludicrous fairy tale, they simply cannot comprehend how their government – and its affiliated media – could lie to them on such a monstrous scale.

    Tell me that this is not a huge explosion:

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  75. …You obviously don’t know even what the central banks are. The most important central banks are the Fed, the Bank of England, the ECB, the Bank of Japan and the Chinese central bank. Can you name a single Zionist with any influence in any of them? And if they did have great influence what central bank policies would assist the Zionist cause?

    I can’t wait for the delicious concoctions that might be served as answers to the question at the end! The abject ignorance on display on this forum, regarding the major CBs is quite unmatched.

    Recently, I had on another thread written about the Fed and other CBs, to the chagrin of the gatekeeper of the UR, who proceeded to charge me with the crime of pushing the MSM view and “ideas that anyone can find on the Web”! Actually, the odd thing – naively I thought at the time – was that the internet being chock full of these bats-in-the-belfry theories of monetarist conspiracies, I was simply offering a more internally consistent read. It was not to be accepted as such. For logic and reason, so decided here seminally, are afterthoughts, and not the necessary and sufficient conditions Western tradition demands.

    It further struck me (similar to your own suspicions, and those of , ), do these denizens actually ever reflect on their unflinching raison d’etre, and wonder about the world, which by all indications of time spent posting endless, putrid, miasma of Holocaust denialism, central bank conspiracy, etc., seems to be offering them no toil at all, and therefore might actually offer a measure of insight?

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  76. Oh my – the little Jew hasbara lemmings are busy again – aren’t they cute. Today’s screech.

    “Jews have nothing to do with money, banks, or the Fed – you Gentile people are just too stupid to even be thinking about it.”

    “Why do you think a Jew has been in charge of the Fed for over 30 straight years?”

    “We are the chosen ones to run your society – look at what a good job we are doing.”

    “Just shut up!”

  77. Boy, the comments for this article went off into the long grass and never came back out. It’s supposed to be about Russia, its friends, neighbours and rivals. Here’s a YouTube video with 7.3 million views to get the conversation back on track:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65SwzHAbes

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  78. @Where will Israel go now?

    It was all spelled out in detail (no secret, conspiracy theory whatsoever) in:

    “The Zionist Plan for the Middle East”
    Translated and edited by Israel Shahak

    The Israel of Theodore Herzl (1904) and of Rabbi Fischmann (1947)

    In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.”
    Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”

    from Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties”, Published by the Association of Arab-American University Graduates, Inc., Belmont, Massachusetts, 1982
    @http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    For updates consult: ‘From the “Yinon Plan” to the “Ya’alon Strategy”‘, by Alfredo Jalife-Rahme @http://www.voltairenet.org/article186019.html

  79. @Can you name a single Zionist with any influence in any of them?”

    Rothschild?

  80. It is the iLLuminati Hegelian Dialectic in operation where

    thesis = anglo/american world hegemony

    antithesis = eurasia world hegemony

    synthesis = One World Luciferian Satanic Government

  81. There’s an even better video by the same team made last year explaining to Russian keyboard warriors why Putin cannot invade Ukraine and why the US/NATO gang want him to. It’s at YouTube under the title: ” Что ждёт Россию, если Путин введёт войска | Why Putin won’t send troops to Ukraine “.

  82. My company just informed me that you are fully qualified to buy our wonderful little bridge in the middle of the Sahara desert .

  83. You also are fully qualified to buy that bridge in the middle of the Sahara desert .

  84. A light, hollow, mostly aluminum and fiberglass fuselage and light aluminum wings cannot withstand impact with fourteen inch wide perimeter box columns consisting of four sides of one quarter inch structural steel, much sturdier steel spandrels and concrete floor pans. Most of the aircraft would have been shredded and fallen to the street below the point of impact; the jet fuel would likely have ignited on the outside of the building.

    I don’t have any dog in this fight but this claim is not reality.

    The idea that an airliner could not break the usually thin skin of an office building doesn’t make sense. Once the nose broke through the rest of the fuselage would continue to burrow in doing damage as the kinetic energy is translated into heat.

    The plane has a mass and as this mass hits something there is a huge pressure increase at the point of impact. This raises the temperature extremely high. The idea that temperature of the fire due the jet fuel not being high enough means that the building has to stand doesn’t take into account the damage done via kinetic energy to the columns. They could be shot through with holes or have so many deformities that it would have come down eventually without the fire.

    The US military anti-armor round for the M-1 tank has no warhead. It is a depleted uranium dart surrounded by a sabot so it can be shot out of it’s smooth bore cannon at a very high velocity. It has a lot mass and velocity at around 7000 fps. It burns through armor and spawls that molten metal onto the tank crew inside. When it hits the armor the pressure is enormous and melts the armor. The mass not in contact pushes forward keeping the pressure on and forcing its way through the armor that can be many inches thick. As the dart moves forward more metal is melted and it is pushed forward as well as to the side as the heat from the impact point spreads out.

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  85. “” Western governments can NEVER pay back the Zionist central bankers – because of that debt, Zionism owns the people of the West. “”

    Not exactly . Zionists own Western sheeple because the sheeple are inveterately obsessed with a vast reservoir of ignorance about the judeo-masonic iLLuminati criminal money monopoly .

  86. A major problem is actually the lack of cognitive dissonance among the sheeple demographic . The main theory for the lack is that most of the sheeple have been successfully psychologicly lobotimized by the fedgov via brainwashing by the education establishment and the msm .

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  87. Yeah, you didn’t really seem to interpret the 9/11 reference all that well. While there was no choreographed “inside job” all the truthers, armchair internet conspiracy buffs, and other people with no significant background (and usually no formal education derived from) in engineering, aviation, physics and chemistry, sure thought it was. He way he U.S. handled 9/11 and subsequent military maneuvers around the globe, it may as well have been a massive conspiracy, it certainly fed a lot of fuel to the crackpots.

    It was around 2005 I remember the sabre rattling between the U.S. and Iran was particularly heated. I was serving in Afghanistan at the time and it really looked like either side was looking for any flashpoint to start a shooting war. You have to remember, Iraq was still under American occupation, as was and still is Afghanistan.

    You can’t tell me some every blowhard who gets their kicks off divining Illuminati symbols in American money was salivating at a confrontation.

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  88. Excuse me. What do you think the popular will of the people of the Crimea is? There was a referendum in which the vast majority voted to rejoin Russia. There were international observers who confirmed the honesty of the vote.

    Why do you believe that the popular will of the people of Crimea should be ignored?

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  89. the building has to stand doesn’t take into account the damage done via kinetic energy to the columns

    Excuse me, I think you do not have a very good conceptual model of these things — in particular, the nature of a steel framed skyscraper, and the relative scale of the physical objects involved. The steel frame of each of the twin towers had a mass of about 100,000 tons of steel, very hard, strong structural steel. Each Boeing passenger plane that allegedly crashed into the respective buildings had a mass of about 100 tons. The idea that a 100 ton thin aluminium tube can crash into 100 thousand tons of structural steel and cause the whole thing to disintegrate in short order is, in fact, preposterous.

    Regardless, there was a third building, the one whose collapse was reported by the BBC half an hour before it took place, that was definitely not hit by any airplane and the official story is that this third, steel framed skyscraper collapsed in a perfectly symmetrical way as a result of randomly spreading office fires. Think about that.

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  90. The Chinese alia to Israel in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edhtdoPukk0
    Looking for a new host: http://jfjfp.com/?p=67891
    Cost of Israel for the US taxpayers: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34485.htm

  91. endless, putrid, miasma of Holocaust denialism, central bank conspiracy, etc.,

    Hmm, on the face of it, what do these things have in common? Holocaust revisionism on the one hand, and on the other hand, a desire to bring the Fed and these other central banks under democratic accountability?

    Prima facie, the two things would seem to have about as much to do with one another as a fish and a bicycle…

    So.. why would one conflate the two things into a single “putrid miasma”? You are saying in essence that the very same people who believe there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz also believe we should audit the Fed…

    So… I mean to say, hold on… if you are saying that the belief that the Fed should be audited and under democratic control is an “antisemitic conspiracy theory” comparable to “holocaust denialism”, then aren’t you tacitly admitting that the Fed IS under judaeo-zionist control? Or what is going on here….

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  92. Could you be more on point? Have you tried to convince the readers that the US State Dept. has nothing to do with the coup d’etat in Kiev, with the installment of a set of corrupt oligarchs that suit the US in the Ukrainian government instead of the previous set of corrupt oligarchs? If this was your goal, you failed, since there are too many facts supporting the narrative that the US government has been fomenting a military conflict on a border of the Russian Federation. If you are not aware about the dangers of nuclear war, please google the pertinent information.

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  93. The main theory for the lack is that most of the sheeple have been successfully psychologicly lobotimized by the fedgov via brainwashing by the education establishment and the msm .

    Yes, the “hidden elites” have been systemically mind-manipulating not only the American people but the world, at least since the Creel Commission and Edward (Freud) Bernays ** coordinated Hollywood, the PR biz, and war profiteers, through Woodrow Wilson’s governmental agencies to heat up hatred of the Hun to get USA into WWI so that Chaim Weizmann could deliver on his side of the bargain: US in WWI in exchange for Palestine for Jews.

    Warner Brothers and all the other Hollywood studios at the time were run by Eastern European Jews. Federal government collaboration gave them a tremendous boost.

    James Risen just exposed another major participant in that industrial complex,
    the American Psychological Association provides cover for the work of psychologists who design torture programs — er, interrogation techniques.

    That’s just the tip of the iceberg, and the NYTimes limited exposure to torture techniques.

    To what extent is the US government collaborating with the psychology industry, coordinating it with Hollywood and infotainment/MSM to systematically torture — condition the body politic into hating some designated Other?

    The Saker treats of three of the US’s enemies, meaning targets for overthrow, Russia, China and Iran. I listen to C Span a lot. No program or congressional hearing that mentions Iran fails to attach to Iran the words, “cannot be trusted.” It’s become automatic, now it’s all one word: IranCannotBeTrusted. But the historical reality is that truth-telling is a value as deeply embedded in Iranian culture as lying is in zionism — Israel operates by way of deception; Zoroastrianism, the core of the Iranian psyche, is all about reverence for Asha, truth.

    Similar memes have been propagated to denigrate Russia and China.

    Who dreamed up those memes? Is there a Psych Ops Central within the US government that coordinates with Hollywood and MSM to condition the American people to hate some designated other, and does the American Psychological Association give it cover? Robert Aumann at Israel’s Institute for Rationality performs such functions for Israel; is this one more source through which Israeli deviance has been infiltrated into US culture?

    If the American people want to change their distorted culture, then they need to plunge a hemlock stake in the heart of the psy ops elites who are running it.

    ** History as a weapon
    ORGANIZING CHAOS

    THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
    We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
    Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.
    They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons—a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million—who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.

  94. This must be some misguided practical joke designed to make people cross because they don’t see the leg-pull. After all I was alerted by a telephone call to watch BBC TV late on 9/11 when it was morning in NYC and I saw the aircraft flying into the towers as well as the street scenes and vox pops. On top of explaining what I saw you would also have to explain what happened to four airliners and their passengers.

    Please stop wasting people’s time and demeaning a website with the potential to make a valuable non MSM contribution.

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  95. You display the usual deficiencies which leave only the puzzle “knave or fool?”.

    What evidence have you that Greenspan, Bernanke, or any of the other Jews on the Fed boards are influential Zionists? Answering that would be the closest you came to a relevant response. However it is more telling that you haven’t said anything about the other central banks I mentioned. And, the big one as Sam Shama pointed out, what central bank policies could further the Zionist cause?

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  96. I am thrilled to see The Saker here at the Unz Review. The comment sections on any article dealing with Russia tend to go, ahem, thermonuclear. I don’t mind that, so long as we keep it in the comment sections.

    All we need now is for HA and Matra to show up, to explain to us how evil all Russians are.

  97. […] originally written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/a-tale-of-two-world-orders/ […]

  98. Thank you for your consideration. Hitherto I had been inclined to give you the credit for being an earnest, if not very bright, mildly obsessive person anxious to achieve some sense of significance in an unsatisfactory life (probably unemployed rather than retired to explain the time you can give to something you care about without having any expertise for either factual research or analytical thinking). Now I see the problem goes further, extending to an inability not just to read and understand much of what others right but to discern what kind of discouse they are engaged in when they have no barrow to push but merely a distaste for people carrying on with pretentious or ranting nonsense when such people wouldn’t get a second interview (even if their written work got them a first) for admission to one’s few spots for PhD by thesis supervision. I’m afraid you are one that I have heard enough from but will do you the courtesy of supposing that you might take time to consider

    https://youtu.be/T-C1qop1P4Y?t=364

    on how the Maidan affair was started, and

    https://youtu.be/2zssIFN2mso

    which was obviously far beyond the CIA to fake effectively so must have been contracted out to Mossad – or gee, might be as convincingly true proof that Putin lied about Russian soldiers being in the Ukraine. Not very smart to use Siberian troops of Asian appearance who post dozens of selfies on social media!

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  99. After all I was alerted by a telephone call to watch BBC TV late on 9/11 when it was morning in NYC and I saw the aircraft flying into the towers

    Yeah, on 9/11 someone in the office had a TV and we watched the video pictures — moving pictures, i.e. live, real-time pictures of the planes flying into the tower.

    Never thought about that before.

    Who took those real-time moving pictures?

    Amazing coincidence that someone was at the right place at the right time with the right equipment to take real-time video of the plane flying into the first tower.

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  100. I withdraw what you call a euphemism. On a subject on which we are probably equally ignorant but on which I have fewer prejudices I see that someone has made a case on this blog for the $5 billion being for humanitarian purposes over about 10 years. If a CIA officer happened to turn up on a particular date what evidence is that of anything? What did this one person do FFS? What did he do or find out that couldn’t have been done on the field telephone or pedal wireless?

  101. Citizens of the Russian Federation and other foreign volunteers have been fighting and dying alongside the ethnic Russian and Ukrainian rebels in Donbass; no one has ever claimed otherwise. Have Russian Federation troops fought in Ukraine? That’s another question. Putin and the rest of the Russian Federation has to walk a tightrope with World War III on one side and the massacre and mass expulsion of the citizens of the Donbass region on the other. People should be glad the RF is playing cute on this matter; they’re saving us in the West and Ukraine from the malpractice of our own political class.

    I suppose they could entirely restrain themselves and send no assistance to their fellow Russians on the other side of a badly drawn, twenty-something year-old international border but I guess they’re still not westernized enough to sell their countrymen down the river the way we can.

  102. As you think that is important no doubt you have taken the trouble to identify which were the first video pictures. I don’t remember whether anyone with serious commercial video equipment captured the first tower being hit (a tourist’s could-have-been accidental video doesn’t count for the conspiracy obviously). Doing a quick search I find on the first page a reference to Pres Bush lying when he said there was live video of the first tower being struck. You conspiracy theorists really are the people who should get your stories straight. After all it is you that are under suspicion of being mad in the MSM and half the blogosphere. BTW if anyone was forewarned so the video clips could be good quality why wouldn’t it be Osama bin Laden’s team that gave the tip off? In short, even if tip offs were proved what would that prove?

  103. Hitherto I had been inclined to give you the credit for being an earnest, if not very bright, mildly obsessive person anxious to achieve some sense of significance in an unsatisfactory life (probably unemployed rather than retired to explain the time you can give to something you care about without having any expertise for either factual research or analytical thinking).

    Wizard of Oz – originated posts, The Saker article: 19 make that 20

    annamarina – originated posts, The Saker article: 5

    I’d do the word-count but there’s a stack of essays to correct for grammar and syntax. bizzee bizzee bizzee.

    Now I see the problem goes further, extending to an inability not just to read and understand much of what others right [sic] but to discern what kind of discouse [sic] they are engaged in when they have no barrow to push but merely a distaste for people carrying on with pretentious or ranting nonsense

    not to mention ran-on sentences.

    when such people wouldn’t get a second interview (even if their written work got them a first) for admission to one’s few spots for PhD by thesis supervision.

    Sounds like some personal problems working themselves to the surface.
    Say — also sounds just like Sam Shama; s/he is an arrogant sob who affects Britishisms, and s/he’s got a PhD, so s/he has told this forum (although, are you hinting that even though your righting was good enough for a first not even your nepotic network could get you into the PhD program you pined for?) Perhaps you & Sam know each other? Work for the same outfit?

    I’m afraid you are one [or two] that [we all] have heard enough from

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  104. My point was quite clear. Rurik regurgitated a bunch of false statements. I corrected those inaccuracies. Shame on the pro-Russians who knew better but refused to do so.

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  105. Excuse me. What do you think the popular will of the people of the Crimea is?

    I wrote it clearly. You should have read more carefully, sorry:

    “Currently the majority of Crimea’s people are Russians and prefer to be part of Russia, but don’t pretend that this situation is ancient or historical, rather than quite recent. Kosovo has been majority-Albanian much longer than Crimea has been majority-Russian. ”

    There was a referendum in which the vast majority voted to rejoin Russia. There were international observers who confirmed the honesty of the vote.

    The referendum was with North Korea-style results. A majority would have preferred Russia (I’d estimate it would have been 65%-70%) but ran a fake one with 97% supporting union.

    The observers were largely a collection of neo-Nazis and Stalinists, with a few non-extreme and decent Euroskeptics thrown in. There’s a list of them here, feel free to google the names yourself to corroborate:

    http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.com/2014/03/pro-russian-extremists-observe.html

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  106. http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/17/ukraine-war-spreads-across-russian-border/
    Nazi and anti nazi demarcation is written on the sand of this unnecessary conflict .

  107. I watched the Vice News video and it’s reasonable and most likely truthful except in two spots near the beginning and then at the end. Simon Ostrovsky’s voice-over editorial (starting around the 22.12 mark) is inaccurate. He assigns motives to the Russian government I don’t think it has and suggests a pro-western consensus in Ukrainian that’s clearly not there. In brief, he’s blaming the Russian Federation for the mess.

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  108. The referendum was with North Korea-style results. A majority would have preferred Russia (I’d estimate it would have been 65%-70%) but ran a fake one with 97% supporting union.

    Steve Sailer pointed out at the time that such landslide wins are quite common in such cases:
    Secession Referendums That Win, Win Big
    Steve Sailer • March 21, 2014

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/secession-referendums-that-win-win-big/

    It’s an interesting quirk of mass psychology, I guess.

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  109. I should have typed: “… suggests a pro-western consensus in Ukraine“.

  110. Both Holocaust denial and Zionist-Fed, are products of feverished minds searching for the “conspiracy drug”, in a manner of speaking.

    On Central Banks: The U.S. Fed is the most important CB for the world economy. It belongs to the member banks, acts as a Federal regulator of financial institutions, conducts monetary policy and most importantly assumes the role of the lender of last resort to the US economy, and indeed arguably to the western bloc (as evidenced by dollar swaps entered with the ECB during 2008-2010). The BoE, ECB, BoJ and to some extent the Chinese Central Bank co-ordinate their actions with the Fed to maintain stability in global markets.

    The Fed – to disappoint the conspiracy aficionados – is for all intents and purposes “audited” by the member banks and its financials (balance sheet, flow statements and OMOs) are openly available for all citizens to view, with weekly, monthly, quarterly and annual updates (http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst.htm ) . This is in fact more transparent than any private or government entity. So what does further “audit” by Congress mean? For most purposes, it accomplishes nothing beyond what is already practised. The reality of such action, reduces most likely, to a detrimental bureaucratic interference from a body (Congress), which is perennially caught in impasse, and has little comprehension of monetary policy. It will be a disaster. (What global savings mismatches have wrought in recent years, and the role of the Fed/BoE/ECB/BoJ to counter these is a separate discussion)

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  111. It’s you who are wasting people’s time with your regurgitation of mainstream media propaganda, fit only for very low information infotainment consumers.

    You didn’t see anything “real time” or “live”. If you will do a search on Youtube for “Chopper 4 9/11″ you can see for yourself that no large commercial airliner hit WTC 2; it clearly shows some small indeterminate flying object descending steeply into the building.

    Think about it – all those news helicopters aloft over lower Manhattan yet not a single one of them managed to convincingly cover the approach- which should have been visible miles out – and impact of a large commercial airliner, yet a bunch of amateurs managed to capture the approach and impact from numerous locations. And these same amateurs – even from the same vantage point, managed to have entirely different objects – including one that looks like a hybrid of a goose and a B-52 bomber, and another with its left wing vanished – not only striking the building but maintaining constant speed, which is not possible according to Newton’s Third Law.

    You think you saw commercial airliners fly into the buildings because that’s what you were told you saw by authority figures in the mainstream media. You have traded in your critical thinking skills for a flat screen.

  112. “What evidence have you that Greenspan, Bernanke, or any of the other Jews on the Fed boards are influential Zionists?”

    Can you tell a bigger lie – no Zionist has hurt America more the Bubbles Greenspan. The junk bond takeover of the American corporation, the saving and lone debacle, the internet bubble, the housing bubble – were all financed by the ease credit policy of Bubbles. He put America in debt. They all transferred established wealth to the Jews. They all have powered the Jewish takeover of our establishments.

    As for you Wiz –– you are just another little lemming Jew proudly blurring the truth and lying for your tribe – doing your best to intimidate and cower honest America – digging your people deeper and deeper in the abyss of hatred. Shame on you.

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  113. I guess what you’re suggesting is that the people of Crimea should be forced to suffer the persecution of the illegal and violent putsch that installed a regime far more corrupt than the one it ousted. Porky and his crew are OBVIOUSLY a quisling operation of the beast from DC, Tel Aviv and London and Porky’s job is to foment war on their behalf. I guess you’re an apologist for this pathetic and murderous state of affairs, eh?

    I don’t have to live in Ukraine to know how corrupt and contemptuous of international law, (or any laws) that our current government in DC is. And so when we send some revolting hag over there to haughtily decide who is going to be in their quisling government, as it burns people alive in buildings, bombs civilians and blows passenger jets out of the sky, all the while blaming Putin for all of it, even if I may be mistaken about a detail or two, I sure the hell am not mistaken about who the bad guys are. (Nuland and her Kagan family and the western war mongers of every stripe who bombed Serbia in order to break that country apart but then act like Crimea needs to always and eternally stay in Ukraine’s hands no matter what. They’re completely corrupt liars and murderous fiends.

    Ukraine is a unique place. The citizens of the West look (tragically at a completely corrupt, banker controlled) West as their cultural brothers, whereas those in the East, tend to look East to Russia, where they’re more connected ethnically and culturally.

    It’s that fault line that the banksters are cynically manipulating by using the Ukrainian neo-Nazis as their thugs. They want to punish Putin for not letting them bomb Syria into the stone age just like they did Libya. That’s what this is all about. Getting Putin to submit to their demands. They demand that none dare question their domination of the entire planet.

    Personally since I believe in self-determination for all people, I think the best thing for all involved would be for those in the east to split with those in the west and let them all go their separate ways, no matter what Nuland or Putin said. People have a right to decide for themselves what kind of government and culture they want. imho

  114. Perhaps I should invite Annamarina to prove that she is at least half as bright as she seems to think she is by finding a way to get through to “Seraphim” that this is a cretinously stupid reply to what it purports to be responding to. I can’t be bothered wasting my time any longer. Indeed the sooner Ron gets round to providing the personal filter one needs to exclude in one click all the maddies one has identified the happier I shall be.

  115. Stalin was a “wrench in the works” to the Atlanticist-Zionists; he was undoubtedly a brutal man, but he rose to power in a brutal system dominated by Jews, to whom he became increasingly wise, and eventually hostile, which most likely led to his death by poisoning.

    The origins of the Cold War, in my opinion, are not to be found in the aftermath of the Second World War but in the struggle for power between Stalin and Trotsky-Bronstein. There is no doubt in my mind that the latter would have exceeded Stalin’s brutality a hundredfold. Trotsky wanted the destruction of traditional society – the family, religion, traditional morality, etc. Stalin, who desired to build socialism in one state, was smart enough to realize that to accomplish this a stable society was required. Once Stalin prevailed, the hostility of communist Jewry to Stalin was immediate and manifest.

    Once the great preemptive strike (Operation Barbarossa) began against the Soviet forces staging for the invasion of Europe in the summer of 1941, and the Red Army was in full retreat, Stalin realized that his men would not fight for the abstractions of dialectical materialism. This was the inspiration for the “Great Patriotic War” theme, which, ironically, leads straight to the heart of present day Russia and Vladimir Putin. Stalin restored the Orthodox patriarchate and opened the churches. The struggle now took on an entirely new dimension of defense of “Mother Russia” and Orthodox civilization. (At least that is how it is perceived in most of Russia today.)

    As for Churchill and F.D.R., there is no doubt that they and their cohorts bear the lion’s share of guilt for the Second World War itself, not to mention the destruction of Europe. Both men knew that the coming war had nothing to do with German aggression or “freedom” but was to be fought to eliminate Germany as a rival to Anglo-American commercial and financial supremacy.

    Much is made – rightly so – of Red Army brutality in the occupied countries.

    However, the introduction of area bombing – including the Lindemann Plan to deliberately target the more dense working class housing in order to increase the number of victims – is one of the most ghastly crimes imaginable. It is a documented fact that Hitler wanted to limit aerial bombing to combat zones. It was Churchill who implemented this horrendous and criminal wave of destruction – with his characteristic “gusto”. He would delight in his bombers destroying a city and killing tens of thousands of men, women and children as he would delight in gobbling caviar or drinking his snifters of brandy.

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  116. And that is meant to answer the question?

    And a bit more than BTW what did Bernanke have to do with the savings and loan debacle? Do you even know when it occurred?

    What evidence have you that I am Jewish? I have no such evidence even of Jewish genes going back to about 1400 AD anyway. But you just swing words round wildly don’t you?

    I shall presume that you are not actually certifiably mad and on that basis ask whether you cannot feel or simply don’t feel shame when you should. Your abysmal ignorance of banking, especially central banking, on which I called you should have you hiding your face and, on this blog perhaps, changeing your name and trying a fresh start.

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  117. Would you care to provide reference to the parts of the well documented correspondence and reports of conversations between Churchill and Roosevelt or their correspondence or diary noted discussions with others which supports your assertions in the par about them and WW2?

    And specifically would you deal with the awkward fact that WW2 began in September 1939 so your evidence about R and C has to pertain to a time earlier than that according to your own choice of words about “the coming war”.

    Then you might attend to what anyone with an old fashioned traditional good education might notice as odd. You don’t actually say that the war was started by Churchill or Roosevelt or “their cohorts” but that they knew it would be fought to eliminate Germany as a rival etc. Don’t you see something odd about the assertion that Germany and Russia agreed to carve up Poland (while they each plotted to attack the other) in order to protect the US and Britain from business competition?

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  118. To reiterate: Are you trying to convince the readers that the US State Dept. has nothing to do with the coup d’etat in Kiev?

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  119. Congratulations on emerging from the asylum (most blog comments that have latched on to this article) with wit intact to accept that Putin lied about Russian soldiers not being in the Ukraine!

  120. Please set out your case. My understanding is that the supposedly mysterious failures of the buildings’ structures (so someone must have planted bombs!) has been explained by the amount of aviation fuel which the aircraft were carrying

    2,200 certified architects & engineers have set out the case already:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/12/1617/

    ^ The fuel could net generate the necessary heat

  121. In your response, you have not addressed the main points in my post:
    1. The former president of Ukraine was an oligarch and thief, but he was democratically elected.
    2. The current president is a oligarch and thief that was “elected” without the participation of east Ukrainians.
    3. The east Ukrainians wanted federalization; for this wish they were attacked by Kiev junta. The civil war was initiated, most likely, on a strong advice of Poroschenko’s main benefactors at the US Depart.; the US “representatives” have been entrenched in Kiev since the Maidan Revolution.
    4. There are the direct evidences of the US involvement in the Maidan revolution in Kiev, including the recorded conversation (laced with Cheneyesque obscenities) of Nuland-Kagan with Pyatt; the visit of the Director of CIA to Kiev on the eve of the beginning of the civil war in Ukraine; the participation of the paramilitaries from Lviv during Maidan to create a mess (listen to Ashton conversation on this matter), and the betrayal of the memory of the WWII by using European neo-nazis against the east Ukrainian federalists and supporting the presence of Ukrainian neo-nazis in Kiev government.
    5. The behavior of the US Zionist re Ukraine is a grave insult to the memory of Holocaust. Nuland-Kagan (a progeny of east European Jews) has been personally supporting the neo-nazi leaders in Ukraine. An Israeli citizen Kolomojsky has been a sponsor of the neo-nazi Azov battalion that committed unspeakable atrocities in Odessa; yet Kolomojsky was praised in the Wall Street Journal’ article.
    MSM had been denying any information about US/neo-nazi cooperation in Ukraine until the US Congress finally denounced the cooperation: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/12/u-s-house-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/04/is-the-u-s-training-neo-nazis-in-ukraine.html

  122. When a person writes extemporaneously, valiantly producing succinct output over the opposition – for we are debating, are we not? – a few negligible typos are inevitable. It falls on you @Anyanonymous (?), to observe cretinishly, the obvious, unintended slips of @Wizard. By way of proffering your own (dis)abilities, you predictaby hurl ad hominem , the typical resort of the knave. No wit, or readable prose to temper the rubbish either!

    Naturally, the gatekeepers are free to filter any comment they so wish. One does gather that comments from my like-minded readership are rudely interrupting your drug intake. So do just consider our actions, attempts to keep society, drug-free. That might be the thin end of the wedge for you, but nevertheless it is good public policy!

    Conspiracy theories are attractive, and one becomes used to this “….stolid, complacent return of serve: so apparently grounded in reason and scepticism, but so often naive and one-dimensional. In one way, these theories need be no more than the mind’s needful search for an explanation, or for an alternative to credulity”. Consider this carefully before the addiction becomes irreversible. Also, respond with objectivity (Or perish the thought?!!)

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  123. For all you Mafia-buffs in the crowd, I think I can succinctly summarize The Saker’s main argument here by way of analogy:

    After the end of Cold War 1, Washington decided to transform itself into capo di tutti capi; they decided to establish their ‘New World Order’ which has led to endless wars and chaos. But now Russia and China have had enough and have jointly decided to put together a ‘Commission’ like Lucky Luciano’s, so as to jointly handle security issues, reduce the level of chaos and maximize industrial growth and profits.

    Pretty simple, isn’t it!

  124. US State dept. had, perhaps, about as much to do with the “coup d-etat” in Kiev as the French had to do with the “coup d-etat” in Britain’s American colonies.

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  125. If you’re referring to a French Fleet bottling up the British during the siege of Yorktown, a large French loan to the Americans to keep the ‘coup d etat’ going, inclusive of French troops disembarking in what became the USA, all well and good. There could even be a case made the French were supporting gangsters if one takes the criminal Sam Adams into account, never mind we rewrote a professional criminal’s history because he sided with the victors. But at the end of the day your comparison is one of apples to oranges when considering the criminality of the regime the CIA midwifed (with ample German help) in Ukraine:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/08/17/ukraine-for-dummies/

    ^

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  126. Svidomite vermin are going to devour each other like hungry rats in a cage. Get popcorn.

  127. I’ll make some brief points:

    Hitler’s attitude to Great Britain was initially quite friendly, and it resulted in the Anglo-German Naval Agreement which gave Britain a 3:1 advantage in warships.

    Hitler clearly had no designs on France, as he renounced territorial claims upon Alsace and Lorraine – and he built the Westerwald, whose purpose was purely defensive. His numerous proposals for disarmament were dismissed, with the exception of the naval agreement with Britain.

    Hitler did not want war with either France or Great Britain, and certainly not with the U.S.

    F.D.R. hated Hitler; no doubt in part due to the fact that National Socialist Germany was prospering due to Hitler’s economic policies and the U.S. was still in the throes of the Great Depression. And that hatred was exacerbated by Hitler’s public exposure of F.D.R. as an international ignoramus in his reply to the latter’s telegram urging Hitler to pledge to avoid invading a list of countries many of which were allies of the Germans and in one case, Palestine, which, Hitler noted to the laughter of the Reichstag, was occupied by British, not German troops.

    F.D.R., through is roving ambassador, William Bullit, urged the British, French and Poles to wage war against Germany and pledged that the U.S. would later involve itself in the conflict. Before the war, the President also engaged in illegal secret correspondence with Churchill when the latter was Lord of the Admiralty – behind the back of the Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain. The correspondence involved getting America into the war.

    F.D.R. waged an illegal naval war in the Atlantic against the Kriegsmarine and German merchant shipping before America’s official entry into the war. Even in the face of this, the U-Boats were ordered to only respond if attacked.

    F.D.R. implemented Captain McCollum’s memorandum which involved how to provoke Japan into “firing the first shot” and thus, facilitate America’s entry into the European war, which a majority of the American public opposed:

    Make an agreement with Britain and the Dutch to use their bases in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

    Grant all possible aid to the Nationalist Chinese.

    Send heavy cruisers and submarines to the Western Pacific.

    Keep the Pacific Fleet based in Pearl Harbor. (Against the vociferous objections of Admiral Richardson, who knew it was vulnerable to air attack).

    Insist that the Dutch reject all Japanese demands for oil.

    U.S. and Great Britain would completely embargo all trade with Japan.

    Roosevelt himself stated that the objective was to get into the war by getting the Japanese to fire the first shot without “doing too much damage to ourselves.”

    It was the British “war party” (Churchill, Vanistaart, Cooper, Hore Belisha, Eden, inter alia) who urged Chamberlain’s government to provoke a conflict with Germany.

    Churchill wrote the following to Lord Boothby:

    “Germany’s most unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economic power from the world’s trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.”

    Hitler’s proposal to Poland was quite moderate:

    Danzig, 95% German, would return to the Reich. The Poles would retain rights of usage to the Port itself, in addition to receiving a port at Gdniya.

    Poland would retain sovereignty over West Prussia (this was a huge concession in itself, which none of his Weimar predecessors would have dared to propose – it would have been political suicide).

    Germany would receive a transportation corridor through West Prussia which would connect East Prussia to the rest of Germany.

    A military alliance with Poland.

    The Polish regime of “Colonels”, emboldened by the British and French promise of military assistance, rejected these proposals out of hand, and engaged in a series of provocative actions – including attacks on ethnic Germans, flak batteries firing on Lufthansa passenger aircraft going to and from Konigsberg – and bellicose rhetoric.

    Interestingly enough, the Polish General Staff had drawn up its plans for war against Germany, Operation West, before Hitler ordered his own General Staff to draw up a plan against Poland.

    Hitler waited until late in the evening of August 31 for a Polish plenipotentiary to arrive in Berlin to continue negotiations.

    Britian and France declared war on Germany thereby turning a German – Polish border dispute into another major European conflict.

    Hitler even offered to withdraw from all of Poland – except for Danzig and the areas taken from Germany under Versailles, but was rebuffed.

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  128. “Perhaps?” … The coup d’etat in Kiev was the result of joint efforts by different players, including the State Dept.:
    http://www.sott.net/article/292842-Euromaidan-Anatomy-of-a-Washington-backed-coup-d-etat
    And the next act has began, with the US propped neo-Nazi big shots having their own “opinions.” Perhaps Nuland-Kagan and the whole Kagan cabal are not so good for humanity as they imagine. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/12/ukraine-government-armed-standoff-right-sector-militia

  129. Thanks for the link!

  130. “BTW what did Bernanke have to do with the savings and loan debacle?”

    Hey Wiz – you poor boy – I never even used the word “Bernanke” – my post was about Bubbles Greenspan and the evil he put on America and how he made his Jew tribe so filthy rich.

    I think your hasbara handlers are working you and Sam to hard. Tell the bastards that Art is unhappy with them.

    I prayed to Jesus for you two lemmings – take care – Art

  131. The referendum was with North Korea-style results. A majority would have preferred Russia (I’d estimate it would have been 65%-70%) but ran a fake one with 97% supporting union.

    Okay, a couple of points:

    First of all, if the pro-Russian faction was winning the referendum 65-35 or 70-30, why would they fake the 90%+ result?

    Second of all, if you yourself concede that easily two thirds of the Crimean population prefers to be part of Russia, given the choice, why do you want to deny them that choice? That is the question I asked you and you did not really answer.

    As far as I can see, the U.S.A. supports democracy if democracy gives them the results they want, and if it doesn’t give them the desired result, as in this case, to heck with democracy!

    The observers were largely a collection of neo-Nazis and Stalinists, with a few non-extreme and decent Euroskeptics thrown in

    So, in other words, their political sympathies were all over the place. What do I make of this sort of innuendo? Not much, really. You insinuate that the observers had a political axe to grind. Maybe, but so do you obviously. If the observers included neo-Nazis and Stalinists and everything in between, and all of them said the vote was honest and the vast majority of people in Crimea did want to rejoin Russia, then why should I doubt this?

    Look, I’m actualy a pretty simple minded guy. The aforementioned people were “observers” –> Ergo, they observed. –> Ergo they were there.

    You were NOT there.

    So who am I supposed to believe? A variety of people who run the gamut in their political sympathies who were there said the vote was honest. You, who were not there, say the vote was not honest. I opt to believe the people who were there.

    Regardless, you concede that a large majority of people in Crimea prefer to rejoin Russia. So whatever point you’re trying to make is moot. You’re just blowing smoke.

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  132. “the typical resort of the knave”

    Hey Sam – BORING – did your Jew hasbara handlers give you a new word – you have been using “knave” way too often – it is getting old.

    Samie – you are over worked – your posts used to have a little sparkle to then – now they are just long. To much cut and paste.

    You little lemmings need to be chipper and cute – pick it up boy — Art

  133. It was around 2005 I remember the sabre rattling between the U.S. and Iran was particularly heated. I was serving in Afghanistan at the time and it really looked like either side was looking for any flashpoint to start a shooting war.

    Sometimes you run across things like the above that show the psychotic rupture with reality that most current-day Americans suffer from. In your view, there was all this tension between the U.S. and Iran and both sides were trying to start a war. This is like claiming that there is tension between Mike Tyson, say, and some 97 pound weakling and “both sides” were trying to get something going.

    Can’t you at least understand that a third world country with very very modest military capabilities is not eager to get into a shooting war with the planet’s number 1 superpower? Are you visualizing what you are talking about? What is amazing is that you are describing a situation from 2005, so you have had ten entire years (!) to think about this and…

  134. There’s a Jewish fellow who participates on the Mondoweiss blog.

    He protests vehemently against the zionist hijack of Judaism.

    He has patented the Ziocaine ® brand ( /s ), the drug of choice for those addicted to zionist cant.

    It’s amusing that so much energy is perforce expended to enforce the holocaust dogma, and that any deviations from the dogma — by deviations one means facts and logic, of course — are called “addictions” or a “drug problem.” Wiz Oz, your sidekick or alter ego or alternate avatar speaks of opponents to his/her pov as worthy of an asylum. Sam Shama speaks of opponents to his/her pov as beasts and brutes.

    ad hominem?

    Herr doktor heal thyself.

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  135. Thanks for the link, Cagey Beast. A difference is that while Norway was rather ethnically homogeneous, Crimea is not. According to the latest census it was 59% ethnic Russian. This makes the “referendum” result of 97% in favor not very realistic, and the pre-referendum polls showing 65%-70% support more realistic.

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  136. Both Holocaust denial and Zionist-Fed, are products of feverished minds searching for the “conspiracy drug”, in a manner of speaking.

    So, you reply by simply repeating your point, such as it is…

    Let’s see… what are you saying here exactly? You obviously believe that both Holocaust revisionists and the people who want to do something about the Fed are mistaken.

    Okay, fine. You can definitely argue that.

    BUT… you go further than arguing that the aforementioned people are mistaken. You say, not only that they are mistaken, but that they are mistaken DUE TO mental illness. “Feverished minds”

    MOREOVER… you seem to believe that the aforementioned mistaken ideas (mistaken in your opinion at least…) are SEPARATE manifestations of the SAME underlying mental illness, “searching for the ‘conspiracy drug’”….

    Now, as I recall, in the Soviet Union, it was quite common to commit political dissidents to mental hospitals. I remember reading a fascinating article on this quite a few years ago. An American psychiatrist visited the USSR and tried to bring up this issue with his Soviet counterparts, the psychiatrists there. There was a real communications barrier. The Soviet psychiatrists did not think there was any particular problem apparently.

    What I found fascinating in this was that the American psychiatrist ended up coming to the conclusion that the Soviet psychiatrists (at least by and large) were acting in good faith! They genuinely believed that the political dissidents in question suffered from a mental illness and were being “treated” for their own good. I initially was skeptical that those mental health professionals could really believe this. However, now, it increasingly rings true to me.

    You see, for people who are heavily indoctrinated in a certain belief system, it actually is quite easy for them to believe that anybody who believes otherwise must be mentally ill. So people fall for this whole “conspiracy theorist” discourse whereby anybody who has a different interpretation of key events is considered to suffer from some sort of mental illness. Well, this is very convenient, because it frees you from the obligation of refuting what the other person is saying. You simply catalogue the people as mentally ill and then you don’t have to address anything they say at any factual or logical level. Yes, very convenient, so some of this is intellectual laziness. But also, there really is that many (or even most) of the people echoing this “conspiracy theorizing as illness” line really believe in it. They really believe that people with dissenting views must be mentally ill!

    So, okay, I take it on face value that you really believe what you are saying.

    HOWEVER… regardless, the idea that somebody believes that the Fed should be under democratic control must be mentally ill — to me, this is transparently preposterous. Moreover, the basic argument you are making, that there is no need to audit the Fed because the Fed basically audits itself… by the same token, I suppose there was never any need for the L.A. police to investigate O.J. for maybe having murdered his ex-wife. Surely O.J. could be counted on to investigate himself! What a waste of taxpayer funds to investigate the Mafia. The Mafia can be counted on to investigate themselves and then report on any wrongdoing…

    So, here we are, 7 years after the great financial mess of 2008, and you argue that all these Central Banks know what they’re doing and it would be catastrophic to have democratic control over these institutions. So you mean that, okay, the mess in 2008 was a big mess, BUT it would have been even messier (catastrophic in your terms) if we had a Fed under greater democratic accountability. You seem to be saying that, right?

    Well, okay, that’s a counterfactual history proposition, fine. So, we understand that it is hard to demonstrate this one way or the other. But, okay, you believe this apparently and you have the right to believe what you want.

    BUT… can you provide me any kind of reasoned argument (one that makes no reference to purported mental illnesses) for why anybody else should share your belief that the financial mess would be far worse if the FED were under democratic control?

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  137. Well, Western military forces weren’t involved so French involvement was greater in Britain’s North American colonies, than Western involvement in Ukraine.

  138. First of all, if the pro-Russian faction was winning the referendum 65-35 or 70-30, why would they fake the 90%+ result?

    Because if you look at Crimea’as demographics, you see that in certain regions ethnic Russians are a minority. There was a good chance that those parts of Crimea would have chosen to stay in Ukraine (at least, the vote would have been too close for comfort). For strategic purposes Crimea going all-Russia everywhere was preferable.

    Second of all, if you yourself concede that easily two thirds of the Crimean population prefers to be part of Russia, given the choice, why do you want to deny them that choice?

    When have I denied them that choice? My preference would have been for Crimeans to elect pro-Russian parties, then hold an actual referendum, with regions (populated by Tatars plus Ukrainians) choosing to stay in Ukraine getting that option.

    As far as I can see, the U.S.A. supports democracy if democracy gives them the results they want, and if it doesn’t give them the desired result, as in this case, to heck with democracy!

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. Kosovo was wrong, so was Crimea.

    So, in other words, their political sympathies were all over the place.

    No, there were three types among observers: Eurosceptics, neo-Nazis, and Stalinists. Only the first group could be considered normal, and this group represented only a small subset of observers. Moreover this group was very anti-EU, and the referendum was an act against a pro-EU government. So none of the observers were impartial.

    If the observers included neo-Nazis and Stalinists and everything in between, and all of them said the vote was honest and the vast majority of people in Crimea did want to rejoin Russia, then why should I doubt this?

    So if neo-Nazis and Stalinists agree on something, it must be true? Are you a big fan of Molotov-Ribbentrop?

    Look, I’m actualy a pretty simple minded guy. The aforementioned people were “observers” –> Ergo, they observed. –> Ergo they were there.

    You were NOT there.

    Stalinists have gone to North Korea and have written wonderful things about it. I was never in North Korea. By your logic, I should believe them.

    Regardless, you concede that a large majority of people in Crimea prefer to rejoin Russia. So whatever point you’re trying to make is moot.

    Just because in all likelihood a majority preferred the result doesn’t mean that faking it was okay. It was rather obvious Obama would have beaten McCain, would you have been okay with just running a fake election that year?

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  139. marvelous step-by-step argument, Jonathan Revusky. Thanks.

    The community college’s librarian is a very nice Jewish man. Some years ago I was looking for a copy of Wilhelm Marr’s pamphlet on antisemitism (before Kevin MacDonald provided a translation on Occidental Observer http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-Marr.html ).

    While searching, the librarian and I discussed the topic. The librarian said that Marr invented the term “antisemitism.” I replied (in my indoor voice) that the term was much older, having been used to describe Muslims and Jews who were expelled from Andalusia.

    The librarian swiveled his head and got a look on his face that suggested he was unable to process the information.

    He truly believes — his neural wiring is programmed to believe– that antisemitism was a term invented by Marr in the 19th century, just as Sam Shama avers to be unable to process facts disproving the holocaust narrative that his neurotransmitters are set to uphold.

    I still think the librarian is a very nice Jewish man. In the scheme of things, what he is wired to believe about Marr is irrelevant.

    What people are wired to believe about the holocaust (and the Fed) is a far different proposition: people’s lives are ruined and vast numbers of people are killed in service of a particular, egregiously false wiring diagram about the holocaust.

    Croesus lost his empire because his neural wiring induced him to misinterpret the Delphic oracle.

    American legislators are chomping at the bit to wage war on Iran based on falsely wired information about Iran. Israel has played a major role in producing that neurological short-circuit.
    —–
    To paraphrase Streicher, Bad holocaust wiring is our misfortune.

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  140. you write:

    can you provide me any kind of reasoned argument (one that makes no reference to purported mental illnesses) for why anybody else should share your belief that the financial mess would be far worse if the FED were under democratic control?

    First, do you disagree when I note that Congress, a body so paralysed by its own membership, with no expertise in monetary policy cannot possibly run monetary policy directly?

    Second, what precisely do you mean by “democratic control”? The Federal Reserve system was created by and Act of Congress in 1933. It has a unique public-private partnership structure, with its Board of Governors elected by the POTUS. The Federal Reserve System is “an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.” is the provision of its establishment, and for very good reason: politics should not be guiding the monetary policy of the realm.

    I am sure you realise that a counterfactual cannot be answered, yet I strive to provide you with some facts. Better still, here is an article that takes one through the corrective actions of the Fed on and after the financial crisis:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/upshot/quantitative-easing-is-about-to-end-heres-what-it-did-in-seven-charts.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=1

    and it notes:

    The good news is that the economy has been growing remarkably steadily since the middle of 2009. There were several moments when pundits warned that a dip back into recession was looming, but none materialized. Fed policy is quite possibly a reason for that; every time a risk of recession seemed to pick up, Mr. Bernanke & Co. cooked up another round of Q.E. that helped avert it.

    Please refer to all the charts in the article, and its balanced conclusion, and tell us why you think a direct running of the Fed by Congress would be better.

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  141. Ad Hominem?

    Herr doktor heal thyself.

    iumentorum non hominibus. Therefore…….

  142. in the Soviet Union, it was quite common to commit political dissidents to mental hospitals. I remember reading a fascinating article on this quite a few years ago. An American psychiatrist visited the USSR and tried to bring up this issue with his Soviet counterparts, the psychiatrists there. There was a real communications barrier. The Soviet psychiatrists did not think there was any particular problem apparently.

    What I found fascinating in this was that the American psychiatrist ended up coming to the conclusion that the Soviet psychiatrists (at least by and large) were acting in good faith! They genuinely believed that the political dissidents in question suffered from a mental illness and were being “treated” for their own good. I initially was skeptical that those mental health professionals could really believe this. However, now, it increasingly rings true to me.

    Fascinating

    I know people of good will that can’t possibly entertain some ideas, like the truth regarding the events of 911 for instance. Here’s a nice theory as to what’s going on in their heads.

  143. That is really hilarious, Cagey! Got any more?

  144. Rothbard has a very nice discussion of the interwar monetary system where he calls attention to the barter agreements between Germany and central European countries like Hungary that posed an obvious threat to Anglo-American finance capitalism/pound-dollar imperialism:

    https://mises.org/library/history-money-and-banking-united-states-colonial-era-world-war-ii

    The parallels between then and now are pretty clear, with the US instead of Britain being the dying imperial power desperate to maintain its parasitical financial hegemony, to the point of fostering pointless and self-defeating conflicts contrary to its long-term interests. (It remains to be seen if Putin, like Hitler, has too naïve a view of the forces arrayed against him.)

  145. According to the latest census it was 59% ethnic Russian. This makes the “referendum” result of 97% in favor not very realistic, and the pre-referendum polls showing 65%-70% support more realistic.

    How can you be so daft, AP? It’s obvious what happened: the antis knew they were going to lose anyway, so they simply decided to boycott the election. Additionally, there is also the possibility that at least some non-Russian Crimeans also voted to secede.

    In any case, when a sovereignty referendum was held in Crimea in 1991, the result was almost identical: 94% yes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_sovereignty_referendum,_1991)

    So this vote was definitely not a one-off.

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  146. Concerning your “huge explosion” per the BBC’s Stephen Evans on YouTube I was surprised that you weren’t trying to make something of his first confused reporting from a newsagency across from the South Tower where he had been sitting at ground level when the North Tower was hit because he said he heard “explosions” after the sound of impact which was like a great concrete block hitting the ground (a thud anyway). Presumably he heard explosive sounds. But, if you are a serious person who accepts a responsibility to treat serious issues seriously you would I assume have followed up with, at the very least a Google search such as I did for “Stephen Evans BBC towers”. You get lots of interviews extending for many years after 9/11 and not the slightest hint that there was anything to be doubted about the official account. Not even a question like “well Stephen your earliest interviews during the fog of battle must have given some material for the doubters who think the towers were blown up from within. Any doubts yourself? Any attempts by the truthers to enlist you?”
    Now if you are a serious person with serious issues to which Stephen Evans’s reports are relevant why don’t you be the one who asks him the critical questions? His email address, even if he has moved on from the BBC, wouldn’t be hard to obtain – unless of course you are one of those people who live in a fantastical online world detached from real people in the flesh living ordinary lives.

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  147. How can you be so daft, AP? It’s obvious what happened: the antis knew they were going to lose anyway, so they simply decided to boycott the election

    Except the official turnout was over 83%. That’s too high to involve a significant boycott; indeed it’s the highest turnout in any Crimean election/referendum. And according to the official results about 97% voted to join Russia. You really believe it was so?

    Additionally, there is also the possibility that at least some non-Russian Crimeans also voted to secede.

    Sure, and some small number of ethnic Russians probably preferred to stay in Ukraine. Crimea is 58% Russian, and I estimated that about 65%-70% of its people would have voted to join Russia (numbers in previous polls).

    In the 1994 Crimean election the pro-Russian candidate got 72% of the vote. Since then the Russian population has declined considerably, as a % of the population. Yet somehow joining Russia shot up to 97%. Sorry, that’s not very believable.

    In any case, when a sovereignty referendum was held in Crimea in 1991, the result was almost identical: 94% yes.

    Sovereignty isn’t the same thing as “seceding and joining Russia.” There is a lot of overlap between supporters of each, but it isn’t the same thing.

  148. I am sorry to say that I can keep my definitive answer very short because my first of many possible areas of focus in your unsourced stream of words was the Churchill to Boothby purported quote which is from pure crank territory. 2 minutes search and you would have found that it was manufactured in 2001.

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  149. Too clever by half. If I said there was a video film of the first plane crashing into the North tower then it seems I was wrong (together with Pres GW Bush which is bad company) about that unless some amateur happened to have a camera out at the right time as the plane came into view. So your attempt to make a point just looks silly.

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  150. Aha, now I see what Mr Anonymous (one of them anyway – one wonders whose embarrassment Ron is bending his rules for – who is to be allowed to be covered up for) wrote that evoked Sam Shama’s objection to his pettiness.

    But yes you/he got me. People like you and too many others blighting Ron’s latest contribution to the public good do set off my arrogance. It’s actually a defence against the spoiling of my happy condition of having no negative emotions. I just have this slight concern that contempt could erupt.

    But I am not a “sob”(sic) about anything but brains and the way they are used. I had some very good English teachers (three Oxford graduates who read Greats were particularly good) so I would not look down on you for being the English teacher you appear to be – unless stricken by pomo “theory” that is.

    As Ron has explained his rules against sock puppetry (which you must know would exclude me and Sam Shama being the same person unless paying attention to detail is not part of the 2015 English teacher’s brief) I would be interested to hear what excuse you have for being “Anonymous”.

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  151. Well made point about the faking. But JR’s question is more naive than you have shown. Not only would reality have probably shown that self-determination logic demanded a split of territory which looked like today’s West Bank, Russia would want to be able to say that lots of non-Russians supported the change. Obviously much better than confirmation of a pure ethnic division.

  152. Are you the only “Anonymous” in these comments? I mean you of the pop-psych pseudo-science neural wiring crap which must be the insiders’ language of grandees in the community college library.

    Of the well known facts that Jews were savagely discriminated against under Hitler, and indeed attacked in a country where obedience to the government was famously high, that many millions of Jews were deported and died, of which many, deported or just where they lived, were deliberately killed, that Nazi policies towards Jews were evinced in massive theft of Jewish property and in the destruction of a much higher proportion of the Jewish population than that of any other, that they were forced to wear a yellow star, etc. etc – how do these not add up to a perfectly adequate Holocaust narrative which Jews could rationally regard as meaning that even in the modern world they are so threatened that they need to have a country they can call their own?

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  153. Context appears to not be Wizard’s strong suit.

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

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  154. Hi Wizard,

    One of the videos that were made of the first plane hitting the tower was made by the Mossad agents that were arrested after being seen ‘dancing and high-fiving’ after the plane hit. They went on Israeli TV (after having been cut loose from federal custody by Federal judge at the time Michael Chertoff) and explained that they were there filming to “document the event”.

    Perhaps that was the feed that George Bush was watching when he saw the first plane hit the tower. He said that as he watched it, he just figured it was just bad piloting, being as he is a pilot himself.

    Did you know that?

  155. You miss the point of the video entirely. Notwithstanding what Stephen Evans claimed about an explosion, an explosion is heard and there is a seismic event ON THE VIDEO.

    Anybody with any common sense knows that above ground explosions rarely cause seismic events, but underground explosions often do.

    The explosive force travels upwards and there is a fireball which can be seen near the top of the North Tower, not to mention an upwardly ascending mushroom cloud – its plumes are identical to that caused by the underground detonation of a tactical nuclear weapon.

    If you believe that all these events were caused by jet fuel and a “gravity” collapse, you are simply a hopelessly brainwashed establishment groupie.

  156. http://www.unz.com/tsaker/a-tale-of-two-world-orders/#comment-1005291

    quoth the raving Wizard to annamarina:

    “Hitherto I had been inclined to give you the credit for being an earnest, if not very bright, mildly obsessive person anxious to achieve some sense of significance in an unsatisfactory life (probably unemployed rather than retired to explain the time you can give to something you care about without having any expertise for either factual research or analytical thinking).”

    at which time the proportion of “time spent” was as follows:

    Wizard of Oz – originated posts, The Saker article: 19 make that 20

    annamarina – originated posts, The Saker article: 5

    Wiz o Oz has pulled out all the stops, put in lots more time:

    Stats update (incl. #158):

    Wizard of Oz – originated posts, The Saker article: 19 make that 20 31

    annamarina – originated posts, The Saker article: 5 8

    somebody’s either got too much time on hands (perhaps the day campers are at nap time?) or is paid by the word.

    iumentorum non hominibus. Therefore…….

  157. in the modern world they are so threatened that they need to have a country they can call their own?

    I think that’s what the Naizs wanted. Wasn’t that the battle cry of the Nazis? “Germany for Germans’? Isn’t that what (‘xenophobic/racist’) Germans (and all white countries) are demanding today? A country of their own? Isn’t that why there are the troubles in Ukraine today, because the ethnic Ukrainians don’t want to be dominated by ethnic Russians in their ‘own’ country? And vice versa?

    and I suspect that the same thing is a dream for the Palestinians too eh?

    Do they too deserve “a country they can call their own”?

  158. “one wonders whose embarrassment Ron is bending his rules for”

    Hey Wiz – you are always attacking your host – you are not a nice man.

    You hate free speech. You are un-American. But then a Jew is never loyal, is he!

  159. The quote wasn’t manufactured in 2001, but I’ll stipulate that it may have been manufactured in 1938. So I’ll agree to disregard it.

    What exactly is your counter-narrative? The laughingly childish “Hitler as bloodthirsty madman who desired world conquest and the extermination of all the Jews and Slavs”? Or perhaps the ridiculous “Hitler danced a happy jig at Compiegne” after the French surrendered? Would it be the nonsensical alleged Obersalzberg speech where Hitler spoke about his “skull squads” ordered to kill Polish women and children, whereupon Goering gleefully jumps onto a table top and dances a happy jig in front of the General Staff? Virtually all these were taught to us as genuine historical facts instead of Manichean nonsense.

    There is, however, no question that Churchill (as leader of the British war party) and F.D.R., wanted a war against Germany. And there is no question that Hitler’s economics were a threat to both the British Empire and Anglo-American financial hegemony.

    The fact is that Hitler did not want war. As one who fought in the First World War and knew well the horrors of war, Hitler wanted to reclaim Germany’s rightful role as dominant power on the Continent and to undo the injustices of the treaties of Versailles and St. Germaine. And he did not start major rearmament until 1937. As I wrote before, all of his proposals for major disarmament – with the exception of the Anglo-German Naval Agreement (very advantageous for Britain) were rebuffed.

    If Hitler had managed to establish a barter trade bloc of nations including the Soviet Union, Iran, Turkey, as well as much Latin America it would have been a death blow to the economic hegemony of Wall St. and the City, as it would have eliminated those nations’ needs for international reserve currencies and for parasitical middlemen.

    Much the same thing is happening now with the BRICS countries – which I believe to be the real cause of the conflict in Ukraine, which is to create conflict between Russia and the EU, in order to prevent the economic integration of Eurasia. The Atlanticist-Zionists know that such a Eurasian Union would be a death blow to Wall St. hegemony, and to the dollar itself – since its only real value now is as an international reserve currency.

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  160. It’s quite odd that someone attempting to be so condescending to others cannot differentiate between discrete facts and vague, nebulous narratives such as the “Holocaust” and the official cartoon show of 9/11.

    In the first place, a true narrative must be constructed around real physical facts – discrete facts. Virtually all of the establishment arguments about 9/11 center upon quite the opposite reality – the physical evidence is twisted to fit the narrative; e.g., the Towers clearly exploded outwards, and most of them were turned into fine dust; the concrete and steel experienced molecular dissociation – disintegration. Of course, a precocious third grader could conclude that the Towers did not “collapse” and no hydrocarbon based office fires could have done this – absolutely, categorically impossible. Ditto for most of the other fairy tales of the story – the miracle working amateur pilots, the impossible flight path of UA77, the impossible video footage showing a steel and concrete skyscraper swallowing an airliner whole, etc.

    Using the trauma caused by the event, the establishment launches its counter-narrative immediately. Authority figures and “experts” from the media, government, academia, etc. make pronouncements which the public immediately swallows because most of its critical thinking skills have literally been turned off because of the horrors it sees before its “eyes”.

    Then the counter-narrative hardens into irrefutable mythology, and is no longer (in most people’s mind) seen as a series of events occurring in real time and real space, events which can be scrutinized in an empirical manner, but rather, irreducible from a vague, nebulous, pseudo-religious meta-historical event. The Official Cult of 9/11 is now an indispensable part of the American Civic Pseudo-Religion. You have the 9/11 Memorial, the ritualistic memorializing of the victims with the bells and the silence, the bagpipes, and the “Remember 9/11″ and the “Let’s Roll” mantras. The official version of 9/11 is actually America’s own “Mini-Holocaust.”

    In the same way, the Holocaust is essentially a myth. People make vague claims about “mountains of evidence”, “millions dead”, “gas chambers”, and of course the “most documented event in history”, but once reduced to a factual level, the hoax breaks down entirely:

    The authorized version of the Holocaust is that National Socialist Germany had a policy of murdering all of the Jews of Europe. When asked for proof of this, “Holocaustians” can only produce snippets of rhetoric from Hitler, Himmler, or Goebbels, but not one single official document which unambiguously orders or sets out the extermination policy. So now, the “Holocaustians” claim that the National Socialist leaders communicated this policy via a “secret code” involving euphemisms, e.g., “special handling” becomes “execution via gassing”. As a matter of fact, Raul Hillberg, the dean of Holocaust historians, claims that the Holocaust came about due to a “meeting of the minds” in a “far flung bureaucracy”.

    The authorized version claims that most of the Jews who were murdered were gassed at six easily identifiable locations: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka II, Majdanek (Lublin), Sobibor, Chelmno and Belzec. Yet, there are nothing like any traces of human remains or “cremains” approaching even hundreds of thousands of dead, let alone 3-4 million, at these locations. There is no evidence at all of any of the gigantic mass graves at Treblinka II, which were claimed to have contained well upwards of 700,000 bodies. As a matter of fact, the whole Aktion Reinhardt Camps gassing and cremation claims are rubbish. They are technical and logistical absurdities.

    The very “Holy of Holies” of the Holocaust legend is the alleged “gas chamber” at Birkenau. It has been demonstrated that this room was actually an underground mortuary and was never used for gassing anyone.

    That Hitler never had any plans for murdering all of the Jews of Europe is demonstrated by this document, the “Luther Memorandum” of the German Foreign Ministry dated August, 1942 (when the “gassings” were claimed to have been in full swing) which states – among other things – “…after the war, the Jews will have to leave Europe. This is the unalterable decision of the Fuehrer…” It stands to reason that if the Jews would have to leave Europe after the war, they would still be alive, no?

  161. and Wizard of Oz to Mulegino1

    re W o O’s mention of Bush:

    This morning (13 Jul 2015 / Doshanbeh: 22. Tir 1394 ) Katrina vanden Heuvel was a guest on C Span Washington Journal. @ 39 min a caller asked why no one had been brought to justice for the US invasion of Iraq, after “12 years of sanctions and Iraq having complied with everything demanded of them.”

    vanden Heuval’s response is significant:

    “You raise a fundamental question. . . the lack of accountability for those who misled us, may I say lied us into this war in Iraq is staggering.

    And we saw it in the last year where in the desire to instead of negotiating and finding a deal with Iran which would be not only the most sane outcome — there is no long-term solution to the problems in the Middle East other than a diplomat-political one, a military one is insane.

    But we see people — I do preview with Bill Kristol often — but the architects of that debacle, taking us into war in Iraq, are back on TV, back talking about how we have to go to war. . . This is a recipe for disaster. . . .
    But the death and end of accountability in our system, for the Wall Street financial crisis; for the war in Iraq — I think we need to think hard about what it says about a system that doesn’t value accountability. And that to me is one of the central questions of our time.

    Phil Giraldi raised the same issue here: Where Are They Now?

    vanden Heuvel was speaking off the cuff, but it’s worth noticing that she did not condemn Bush for causing the deaths of so many people, she mentioned only that Bush lied to involve USA in a war of aggression against Iraq. She said it was shameful there had been no accountability, and further that a accountability ought to be part of a well-functioning system.

    If Bush & ice should be held to account for lying the USA into a war of aggression, so should FDR.

    Irving Kristol himself has stated, on the record, that “FDR lied and manipulated to involve the US in war against Germany.” In a round table on Western Values and World War II convened by Norman Podhoretz,participants vigorously defended the proposition that the Allies’ carpet bombing of Germany represented the first-ever use of “Weapons of Mass Destruction to terrorize a civilian population.” (in Commentary Reader, Norman Podhoretz, ed.)

    In an interview with Brian Lamb about his book, The New Dealers War, Thomas Fleming states that his research in the diaries and memoirs of Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Henry Wallace, and Harry S. Truman, in addition to a week spent interviewing Truman, paint a stark picture of Franklin Roosevelt as an inveterate liar; a man so disposed to lie and manipulate that he was called “the Juggler:” his right hand did not know what his left hand was doing.

    Further, and in support of the version of actual history as outlined by Mulegino1, rather than this tedious perpetuation of propaganda that, among other flaws, lacks basic chronological verity, Fleming stated that “Germany . . . was the country that FDR wanted to get US into war with,” even tho he had just won election on the repeated promise that he would not send Americans to fight in foreign wars.

    In response to Lamb’s question, “Why would FDR want us in a war?”, Fleming said:

    “Because he was convinced that the future history of the world was swinging in the balance, and if Germany won, the war …with England and Russia, they would become so powerful that they would really, truly threaten the ability of the United States to defend itself.

    Now a lot of people–and I quote them in the book–did not agree with this analysis. We felt–a lot of the–the best thinkers on the military side felt that–that we had the strength to defend ourselves whether or not we got involved with Germany and Japan. . . .
    I focus on the simple fact that Roosevelt thought this way and then took steps, which I think were not the kind of steps that we think a president should take, to provoke another power into going to war with us. . .

    And the polls–the really dramatic thing was for all Roosevelt’s powers of persuasion, he could not budge these polls. Right up to the day before Pearl Harbor, 75 percent to 80 percent of the American people said they did not want to go to war, unless Japan or Germany attacked us. “

    Charles Lindbergh was correct in his Sept. 11, 1941 speech in DesMoines, Iowa: “The three most important groups who have been pressing this country toward war are the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt administration. ”

    Hitler did not want war; Norman Finkelstein acknowledged in 2006 what Herbert Hoover tried unsuccessfully to communicate to the Roosevelt administration in 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941.

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  162. Wiz

    I am fairly certain who this @Anynonymous is. There’s only one commenter who uses the tell tale strikethrough and double blockquotes. It has not escaped me that he also points frequently to Mondoweiss.

    To you therefore SolontoCroesus, I level the charge of producing the largest volume of tripe and then changing your handle, midsummer. It matters little to me that you changed handles, but it simply reveals what I alluded to earlier: that you are hopelessly addicted to conspiracy theories of the Holocaust. Add to that the zionism of the Fed.

    More importantly, I direct your attention to the comment I posted earlier to Jonathan Revusky (http://www.unz.com/tsaker/a-tale-of-two-world-orders/#comment-1005831), with whom I am sure you agree, and pen an objective rebuttal.

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  163. Because if you look at Crimea’as demographics, you see that in certain regions ethnic Russians are a minority. There was a good chance that those parts of Crimea would have chosen to stay in Ukraine

    So, you are saying that there are basically some enclaves of Ukrainian national support within Crimea. I don’t know. I don’t know the Crimean situation at that level of detail. Maybe such enclaves exist. Could you tell me where they are?

    But, okay, for the sake of argument let’s say that such enclaves exist. Now, the EU slapped sanctions on Russia based on Russia having “illegally annexed” Crimea. Correct? So, if the issue is these enclaves within Crimea that did not want to join Russia, then why is that never mentioned? It is only mentioned that Russia annexed Crimea, ALL of Crimea — that is the issue that is supposedly at hand.

    This message of yours that I am replying to is the very first time that I ever heard anybody suggest that the issue was that Russia had annexed the “parts of Crimea (unspecified so far) where ethnic Russians are a minority”. No, the issue is apparently that Russia annexed ALL of Crimea, including places that were 90%+ ethnic Russian and where 90%+ of the people really did want to rejoin Russia!

    All of the discourse just speaks of Crimea as a unitary entity. So, by that logic, again, if a large majority of the people in Crimea as a whole wanted to join Russia, again, what is the issue?

    But more importantly, if you apply this logic, that there were enclaves within Crimea that did not want to be part of Russia, fine, why not apply this same logic to the Ukraine situation as a whole? When we look at this whole Maidan protest that was engineered in Kiev, it is well known that this did not have the support of very significant regions of Ukraine, including Crimea and the Donbass. But that apparently is not an issue! I mean, you guys can’t burn the candle on both ends constantly, saying that one thing is an issue in one case, but not an issue in the other case. It is the most utterly transparent intellectual dishonesty!

    But, anyway, one can get tired of arguing with people like you. I mean, what’s going on here? In 2003, the U.S., the U.K. and the rest of their “coalition of the willing” attacked Iraq and the result was almost certainly a million or more dead Iraqis, millions displaced as refugees internally and externally… they dropped so much depleted uranium on one place, Fallujah, that there is now 4 times the level of birth defects there that there were in Hiroshima after the atomic bomb.

    These same people who perpetrated the aforementioned nightmare, a veritable holocaust, are trying to tell us that Putin is the epitomy of evil because he annexed Crimea, an operation in which not a single person so much as hurt their little finger, and which corresponded clearly to the popular will of the people there!

    WTF is this? Some kind of sick joke? What standing do these people have? This is like a serial murderer telling me or you what terrible people we are because we ran a red light or nicked a candy bar at a convenience store!

    I mean, people like you with your pathetic quibbling are just such a joke, man. Such a total joke.

    So if neo-Nazis and Stalinists agree on something, it must be true? Are you a big fan of Molotov-Ribbentrop?

    Oh, for crying out loud! The question of whether the vote there was honest is basically a narrow factual question. You ask me about Molotov-Ribbentrop. It’s got basically nothing to do with anything here, but, okay, fine, I’ll answer the fool in the terms of his own folly. Okay, suppose I had a time machine and could go back in time to where this meeting occurred, and I went up to Herr Ribbentrop and asked him what time it is and the man looked at his watch and said it was 5 o’clock and then I walked up to Comrade Molotov and asked him what time it is and he told me it was 5 o’clock and then I walked up to a couple of observers from neutral countries and asked them what time it was, and they told me it was 5 o’clock. I would conclude that it is PROBABLY FIVE O’CLOCK!

    These are different observers, they observed, and said that the vote was honest. You tell me it wasn’t. I believe them and I do NOT believe you. (As a matter of fact, if you told me it was five o’clock or that the sky was blue, I would immediately get a second and third opinion. You, my friend, are one sick joke.)

    Just because in all likelihood a majority preferred the result doesn’t mean that faking it was okay. It was rather obvious Obama would have beaten McCain, would you have been okay with just running a fake election that year?

    I cannot really conceive of what thought experiment you are proposing. It would be better, of course, for the elections to be maximally fair and transparent. Of course.

    But the real thought experiment is that if there is a vote on something in the U.S. and there are these vote irregularities (but not enough to affect the result anyway) then what do you think when some country or countries on the other side of the world use this as a pretext to declare economic war on the U.S.A.? Would that make any sense?

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  164. Enough. In your parallel universe you can calmly admit to relying on a false quote and expect to remain part of a conversation. So, no more.

    BTW
    If you have now taken the elementary trouble to discover the 1938 date you should also have found the assertion that the 1938 edition didn’t contain the false quote.

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  165. I typed a comment linking comments made this morning by Kristina vanden Heuvel with research by historian Thomas Fleming but the comment disappeared.

    ???

    A quick peek at the archive for “Anynonymous” shows that handle in use at least in March 2015. If you wish instruction in how to search the archive I’m sure someone will oblige. I’m not that adept at all this highfalutin’ technology.

    Ron Unz has used double block quotes. No offense to Mr. Unz, but it’s not that difficult.

    Similarly, the strike-thru html is not that complicated. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that underline follows a similar process. EDIT: looks like underline HTML does not work.

    I’m not the least bit interested in responding to your cockamamie claims about central banking. I think you’re just showing off. Not interested. Not impressed.

    I do endorse the sane, sober, objective and fact-based comments of participants such as Mulegino1. I do most certainly think that the dogmatized holocaust narrative must be debunked and the truth of the extent of culpable involvement of all parties — FDR, Churchill, and Jews — be fully explored and that the guilty parties be called to account, just as vanden Heuvel (and Phil Giraldi) have stated that the Bush administration must be called to account for their crimes against humanity in the invasion and destruction of Iraq.

    The Thomas Fleming material that I had included in the disappeared comment quoted Fleming’s realization, affirmed by the writing of his friend and colleague, Michael Kammen, in “Mystic Chords of Memory,” in which Kammen

    “speculates on the impact of memory in history, and . . .maintains that it takes about 100 years for somebody . . .a generation or a country to get to the point where they can look back on a gigantic experience, like World War II or the Civil War, objectively.

    Fleming said that that was the process he attempted in “The New Dealers’ War;” to move from memory to history.

    There are dozens of reasons pointing to the inauthenticity of the holocaust narrative, not least of which is that the very same assertions were published as early as 1900 in propaganda items, and in the 1930s and 1940s in the attempt to gin up a war against Germany and to incite hatred of Germans among the American people to gain their acquiescence to war, as is now posted as the “history” of the holocaust.

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  166. First of all, you did not address the principal points I made. I asked you why you profess to believe that people who want the FED to be under democratic control and people who believe that there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz are mentally ill AND suffer (according to you, apparently) from the SELF-SAME mental illness!!??

    Well, granted, it’s understandable that when pressed, you apparently walk away from that. After all, it’s just pathetic psychobabble blather. C’mon, we all know that! But, by the same token, it should be clear that this kind of thing does cause people to tend not take you very seriously in a conversation.

    Now, as for what counter-arguments you did make, okay, out of a sort of feigned politeness, I’ll pretend that I still take you seriously and respond to your points.

    First, do you disagree when I note that Congress, a body so paralysed by its own membership, with no expertise in monetary policy cannot possibly run monetary policy directly?

    The men and women in Congress, as well as other elected representatives at the various branches and levels of government, do not, INTRINSICALLY have any expertise in ANYTHING, monetary policy or otherwise.

    The argument you are making, thus, does not specifically apply to monetary policy, but rather, any sort of policy — foreign policy, transportation networks, health care, ANYTHING…. Any specific branch of government policy is, at this stage of history, highly specialized in nature, and thus, by your argument, Congress should not have any say over it.

    There is, however, a little problem, this little document called the U.S. Constitution…

    In any case, the argument you make above is not specific to monetary policy, it would imply that Congress should not oversee ANY policy really.

    Now, getting back to monetary policy specifically, the ability to create money out of thin air is really quite a privilege. I believe it was a Rothschild (or one of their minions) who said: “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” The idea that this kind of incredible power to create money should not be under any sort of democratic supervision is really quite extraordinary. To suggest that people who see a problem with this suffer some sort of mental illness — this is really preposterous.

    On youtube, you can watch various Q&A sessions with Ron Paul or Alan Grayson trying to get a straight answer out of Ben Bernanke on various things. It’s just excruciating to watch…

    Moreover, the general line of argumentation that these mostly unaccountable technocrats at the FED are doing such a great job — this does not stand up to much scrutiny. If there really is an economic recovery that has been taking place since 2009, or whenever, it is so anemic, that basically nobody on Main Street believes that it exists.

    Even if said recovery does exist, well, the norm after such a steep recession is that there is a recovery. Now, the question is what happened in 2008? Ben Bernanke, when questioned about the housing bubble in 2006 (pretty much at its height) expressed doubt that there even was a housing bubble, maybe a few local markets were getting a bit “frothy” he said… If you’re at the peak of a nearly unprecedented bubble, and your top central banker doesn’t think there’s a bubble, well… that should not really be very confidence inspiring…

    So, if the incompetence of the FED is what caused the great financial crisis of 2008 and after such a huge recession, you get a bit of a recovery, this is akin to a medical treatment in which the doctor beats you on the head with a stick repeatedly and then when he stops, says he is a great doctor because now that he stopped beating you, you are starting to feel better.

    This is hardly convincing. If there were such a doctor with such a miracle treatment, the question would not be why anybody wants to oversee what he does. The question would be why anybody continues to let this quack practice medicine!

    In general, we have an ongoing situation in which there is seemingly endless money for bailouts for financial crooks, endless money for wars of aggression waged on false pretexts, yet no money for health care, education, maintenance of infrastructure…

    Now, okay, you apparently don’t see anything wrong with this system, and believe that people who think there is something wrong with it are obviously mentally ill. What I am wondering about is this: I assume you do not see yourself as fundamentally the same as those Soviet era psychiatrists I referred to in the last message.

    But what is the difference between your stance and theirs?

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  167. I stipulated that the quote could have been spurious. I was intellectually honest enough to do so; the quote was not the core of my argument.

    I could find many other such quotes which can be sourced and authenticated, by individuals as diverse as J.F.C. Fuller, Bernard Baruch, Basil Liddel Hart, David Hoggan, Charles A. Beard, Gerde Schultze-Rhonhof, James Forrestal, Neville Henderson, Jerzy Potocki, inter alia, but you would simply change the subject.

    You don’t have a credible alternative based upon facts that would indicate that Hitler wanted war and the Allies only reluctantly went to war in the face of mad German aggression. The facts and the historical events put into context and rightfully interpreted, demonstrate that it was the Allies – particularly the British and the Roosevelt Administration, not the Germans, who wanted war in 1939, and that they used the regime of the Polish Colonels as willing dupes to achieve it.

    You have bought in to a historical narrative fit for impressionable 4th graders, but totally unsuited to someone who is constantly harping on about “education”, which in your case calls to mind Ezra Pound’s quote comparing much of formal education to the herding of sheep.

  168. The Wizard is not interested in facts, authentic documents, or physical evidence.

    He has mortgaged his intellectual honesty and his critical thinking skills to false official narratives and Sorelian myths.

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  169. So, you are saying that there are basically some enclaves of Ukrainian national support within Crimea.

    I am saying there are some Crimean raions (like counties in American states) where ethnic Russians are as little as 1/3 of the population, and we will not know what these people would have preferred because rather than a real referendum there was a fake one with North Korea-style results.

    Now, the EU slapped sanctions on Russia based on Russia having “illegally annexed” Crimea. Correct? So, if the issue is these enclaves within Crimea that did not want to join Russia, then why is that never mentioned?

    Because it is irrelevant with respect to the illegality of the annexation, which triggered the sanctions.

    But more importantly, if you apply this logic, that there were enclaves within Crimea that did not want to be part of Russia, fine, why not apply this same logic to the Ukraine situation as a whole? When we look at this whole Maidan protest that was engineered in Kiev, it is well known that this did not have the support of very significant regions of Ukraine, including Crimea and the Donbass.

    So in your world, if parts of the population dislike something that happens in the capital, it becomes open season on that country’s territory? So if Texas goes majority-Mexican while the US elects some patriotic president whom Mexicans don’t like, would the Mexican army have the right to march in, run some fake referendum, and annex the whole state (including areas where Mexicans are a minority)?

    But, anyway, one can get tired of arguing with people like you. I mean, what’s going on here? In 2003, the U.S., the U.K. and the rest of their “coalition of the willing” attacked Iraq

    I don’t know why you bring up Iraq. I was opposed to it from the beginning. You write like an early 2000s Foxnews consumer who has discovered the Russian media and who has made it your new “Foxnews.” Were you one of the 70% of Americans who believed Saddam was somehow behind 9-11?

    Putin is the epitomy of evil because he annexed Crimea

    Who claimed Putin was “the epitomy of evil?” He took advantage of a good opportunity to grab a strategic piece of real estate, during which he managed to cleverly deflect Russian anger against him for turning ethnic Russians into second class citizens in their own country by fomenting conflict with a foreign country, that has cost a few thousand European lives. Bush was worse of course, but people who consider themselves some sort of conservatives or pro-European nationalists who see in Putin a hero are ignorant dupes. Useful one for the Russian state, to be sure. It used to attract naive Western leftist tools, now it gets right-wing ones. Have you heard of Stephen Cohen. He manages to straddle both of those worlds. A rare bird.

    Okay, suppose I had a time machine and could go back in time to where this meeting occurred, and I went up to Herr Ribbentrop and asked him what time it is and the man looked at his watch and said it was 5 o’clock and then I walked up to Comrade Molotov and asked him what time it is and he told me it was 5 o’clock and then I walked up to a couple of observers from neutral countries and asked them what time it was, and they told me it was 5 o’clock. I would conclude that it is PROBABLY FIVE O’CLOCK!

    The time is a trivial matter. Geopolitical events are not. If you asked the Nazi and the Stalinist whether Poland ought to exist and they both agreed that it should not, you would evidently agree with the Nazi and the Stalinist.

    In Crimea’s case, you have neo-Nazis and Stalinists agreeing that the referendum was fair. And you will take their word for it. Good to know what kind of person you are.

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  170. If you asked the Nazi and the Stalinist whether Poland ought to exist and they both agreed that it should not, you would evidently agree with the Nazi and the Stalinist.

    If Molotov and neutral observers said that it was 5 o’clock but Ribbentropp disagreed, what time would it be?

    In Tehran, Churchill and Roosevelt agreed with Stalin that Poland ought not to exist. The opinion of Ribbentropp became irrelevant. Poland ceased to exist.

  171. I think we all should be easy towards the wizard of oz; there is something not quite right about his long posts and his logic.

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