The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewThe Saker Archive
A Few Initial Thoughts About the First Round of the Ukrainian Presidential Election
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

The first round of the Presidential election in the Ukraine took place on April Fool’s Day and it could be tempting to dismiss it all like a big farce which, of course, it was, but, we should not overlook the fact that some very interesting and important events have just taken place. I won’t discuss them all right now, there will be plenty of time for that in the future. For now I will only focus on those elements of a much bigger picture which seem most critical to me. These elements are:

The Nazis suffered a crushing defeat in this election.

By “Nazis” I primarily mean their main figurehead – Petro Poroshenko (the rest of the “minor Nazis” did so poorly that they don’t matter anymore). Think of it: in spite of his immense wealth (he outspent everybody else and even spent more that twice what the next big spender – Tymoshenko – doled out for each vote), in spite of his immense “administrative resource” (that is the Russian expression for the ability to use the power of the state for your personal benefit), in spite of his “victory” with the Tomos, in spite of triggering the Kerch bridge incident, in spite of breaking all the remaining treaties with Russia, in spite of his control of the media and in spite of the (now admittedly lukewarm) support of the West, Poroshenko suffered a crushing defeat. See for yourself:

Look at the only two regions Petro Poroshenko (i.e. the Nazis) actually won (in blue) and see how nicely they overlap with the rough historical contours of the Galicia region. But Poroshenko managed to even lose part of that to Iulia Tymoshenko! Bottom line: except for a minority of rabid hardcore Nazis in Galicia, the rest of the Ukraine hates the Poroshenko Ukronazi regime. We always knew that, but now we have the proof.

Now I don’t want to present that just as some kind of massive anti-Nazi vote because, in truth, this is first and foremost a massive no-confidence vote against the entire ruling elite of the Banderastan which emerged in 2014 as a result of the Euromaidan coup d’etat. Remember how Poroshenko promised peace in weeks, a full respect for the Russian language and prosperity for all? Well, all he delivered was chaos, insecurity, poverty, violence, a massive influx of Ukronazis from Canada and the USA and, above all, a completely hysterical, rabid, russophobia combined with abject groveling before the AngloZionist Empire. He also brought an absolutely unbelievable level of corruption, having personally doubled his net worth many times over. The legacy Ziomedia and the Ukropropaganda can say all they want, and they can try to ban the Russian media and Internet in the Ukraine. But the truth is that everybody in the Ukraine knows that the Ukraine went from being the richest Soviet Republic to the poorest country in Europe. In fact, there are quite a few African countries which are doing much better than the Ukraine. The truth is, and has been for several years now, that the Ukraine is a failed state and that there is absolutely no even vaguely plausible scenario in the foreseeable future in which the Ukraine could begin to recover.

Hence this amazing result: short of the Galician Nazis, everyone else absolutely hates the regime in power. So Poroshenko’s score is a humiliating defeat for all the Ukronazis. But not for Petro Poroshenko himself!

Petro Poroshenko scores a remarkable personal victory

Poroshenko’s absolutely vital goal was to make it into the 2nd round. Had he failed to make it he would have had to immediately jump into an aircraft and leave the country (because the most likely victor of the Presidential election would have been Iulia Tymoshenko and we can be darn sure that she would immediately jail him and most of his cronies). In order to make it into the 2nd round, Poroshenko did not have to defeat Zelenskii, but only defeat Tymoshenko and that Poroshenko also succeeded in doing. Oh sure – it was thanks to a huge, massive fraud all over the country (especially in the easternmost and westernmost regions) and he beat her only by 2.5% but that is more than enough.

Besides, it is practically impossible to falsify an election and compensate for, say, a 15%-20% difference. But to cheat and change a result by less than 5% is much more doable. In fact, if we assume that a 5% fraud is well within the means of an outgoing President and billionaire, then we can also see that we will never know who really won. See here for an almost finished (99.68%) count for the top four contenders:

While Zelenskii is untouchable and way ahead of everybody else, Poroshenko, Tymoshenko and Boiko are all within less than 5% of each other.

Interesting, no?

Keep in mind that Boiko is the closest thing to a pro-Russian candidate and that just a few years ago he was virtually unknown. See for yourself:

2014 results vs 2018 poll
2014 results vs 2018 poll

Look at the stats for 2014: Poroshenko had 55% of the vote, Tymoshenko 8% and Boiko just about 0%. Please also notice that in the 2018 poll Tymoshenko is way ahead of Poroshenko while Boiko is not far behind. As for Zelenskii, he scores just like Poroshenko.

Miller, Medvedev and Boiko
Miller, Medvedev and Boiko

This is not today’s topic, but Boyko’s score is rather amazing considering that he was presented by the entire Ukronazi propaganda machine as “Putin’s agent” and that he even had the audacity to travel to Moscow to meet with Gazprom CEO Miller and Prime Minister Medvedev. Boiko not only won as many regions as Poroshenko – 2 – but the eastern Ukraine clearly voted for him, which tells us all we need to know about where the true sympathies of the people of the Donbass really are. In fact, we can be pretty sure that this outcome has been carefully noted in Donetsk and Lugansk and that this only makes the position of the Novorussians vis-à-vis Kiev even stronger. Finally, it should also be noted here that the outcome of this first round of elections further confirms that the current Banderastan is falling apart and that this is an artificial country with artificial borders and no heritage (cultural, linguistic, religious or political) common to all the people currently living under the Nazi occupation.

What we see here is a double effort by Poroshenko: on one hand he used his immense personal wealth and his equally immense “administrative resource” to buy as many votes as possible, while on the other hand he got the missing votes simply by falsifying the election. In fact, I think that pretty much all the main candidates agree that the election was stolen, except for the two who benefited from this.

ORDER IT NOW

We will never know for sure how much of the votes were stolen but Rostislav Ishchenko, probably currently the best expert on the Ukraine, estimates that no less than 20% of the votes were stolen, and of these no less than 10% were stolen from Iulia Tymoshenko. Of course, this is just his best guesstimate, and 20% sounds extremely high to me, but he is the expert with deep connections on all levels in the Ukraine. What is certain – and everybody agrees on that – is that the fraud was massive, way bigger than in any previous Ukrainian election.

Will the Zionists replace the Nazis next?

First, I want to share with you this ecstatic “victory speech” by the The Tablet Magazine (“daily online magazine of Jewish news, ideas, and culture“) which, amongst many other interesting things, heaps lavish praise on Poroshenko for being so staunchly pious about the memory of the “Holocaust” and having Jewish aides:

Poroshenko will likely be remembered by the history books as the president who was most attentive to the work of honoring Holocaust memory since Ukraine gained its independence from Russia during the collapse of the Soviet Union. The 75th anniversary of the Babi Yar massacre, held in 2016, was an international event conducted by Poroshenko and his administration with immense tact and generosity. Poroshenko has also been personally comfortable with Jewish aides, including both of his chiefs of staff and the country’s current prime minister, Volodymyr Groysman. Poroshenko will likely be remembered by the history books as the president who was most attentive to the work of honoring Holocaust memory since Ukraine gained its independence from Russia during the collapse of the Soviet Union. The 75th anniversary of the Babi Yar massacre, held in 2016, was an international event conducted by Poroshenko and his administration with immense tact and generosity. Poroshenko has also been personally comfortable with Jewish aides, including both of his chiefs of staff and the country’s current prime minister, Volodymyr Groysman.

Amazing, no? Zionist praise for a Nazi junta leader? In fact, there is absolutely nothing amazing about that at all, not any more amazing than the so-called “Christians United For Israel“. I have always maintained that Zionism and National-Socialism are two sides of the same coin, born from the same ugly womb (European secular nationalism) and that all that separates them is a flipped hierarchical scale, that’s all. Fundamentally, Nazis and Zionists are twin brothers, even if deep down they hate (and often admire!) each other.

The Tablet article goes on to mention that while Tymoshenko is hiding her Jewish roots, Zelenskii does not. In fact, Zelenskii is just a glorified puppet and everybody in the Ukraine knows that his puppet-master is Igor Kolomoiskii who is waiting out the final outcome of the Presidential election safely hidden in, you guessed it, Israel. This is how the Tablet concludes:

The transformation wrought in Ukraine by the Maidan revolution has been an exhilarating roller coaster that has not bypassed Ukrainian Jewry, which is now in the midst of an exciting period of cultural revival paralleling that of the wider Ukrainian society, which is still just beginning to rediscover its own past and imagine an independent future. Whether this post-Soviet country will choose to elect an openly Jewish president, or a part-Jewish president, or continue with its current philo-Semitic president, the future of Ukraine’s Jews would appear to be brighter than anyone might reasonably have imagined.

This really says it all, doesn’t it?

A Jewish law student turned stand-up comedian as President of the Ukraine next?
A Jewish law student turned stand-up comedian as President of the Ukraine next?

So yes, if Zelenskii gets elected in the 2nd round, this will be a huge victory for the transnational “Grand Israel” otherwise known as the AngloZionist Empire. But can Zelenskii really get elected and will the Nazis accept defeat?

Comparing Poroshenko and Zelenskii

Where Poroshenko was the ultimate apparatchik Zelenskii is the ultimate outsider and just as the people of the USA did not vote “for” Trump as much as they voted “against” Hillary, so the people of the Ukraine did not really vote “for” Zelenskii, but “against” Poroshenko. In fact, Zelenskii does not have anything resembling a political program (only vague and nice sounding slogans) and he most certainly has no other political record other than being a standup comedian and actors in several (pretty good) satirical series. Frankly, it appears that Zelenskii was as stunned by his victory as Trump was by his. Still, in theory, it is almost impossible for Poroshenko to win this one. Not only do all the other candidates hate Poroshenko way more than they would dislike Zelenskii, voters for Tymoshenko or Boiko are far more likely to vote for Zelenskii than for Poroshenko.

This creates an extremely dangerous situation: Poroshenko can only win by a massive fraud.

This time her basic instinct let her down
This time her basic instinct let her down

Now Tymoshenko did declare that the first round was stolen, but she decided not to appeal this officially. Furthermore, it is now apparent that Tymoshenko was ditched by most of her US supporters, something which she clearly did not expect and which came as a total shock to her, hence her stunned reaction to the announced figures. She has always been, and still is, a remarkably intelligent lady and a very calculating realist: she simply knows that an official rejection of the outcome from her would make no difference. But you can be sure that behind the scenes the interests Tymoshenko represents are now talking to the people of Kolomoiskii and that Poroshenko is fully aware of that.

In spite of being the most universally hated politician in the Ukraine, Poroshenko managed, in extremis, not only to get into the 2nd round but he also managed to be opposed by a weak and generally ridiculous opponent like Zelenskii whom he would crush in a debate (which Zelenskii will probably refuse precisely for this reason) rather than against a formidable opponent by any measure like Tymoshenko. So that part of the plan worked. What did not work is that the Nazis clearly under-estimated how hated they have become.

Conclusion: a very interesting and very dangerous situation

Poroshenko is now truly cornered: he absolutely must win, or he must run. In order to win, his options are very limited: he can do more of the same (buy and/or steal votes), of course, but that is unlikely to be sufficient. But a massive crisis of some kind, preferably against Russia (of course!) would come in really handy right now. I hope that the Kremlin has placed everybody on high alert as the danger of a provocation (especially a false flag) are higher than ever before.

Another very real possibility in case of a Zelenskii victory is an violent insurrection by the Ukronazi death-squads (known as “dobrobats” in Ukrainian). Such an armed insurrection could have the support of key units and individuals in the police and security forces. Should that happen, it is very possible that Moscow would officially refuse to deal with the new junta and declare that Russia recognizes the Lugansk and Donetsk people’s republics which, paradoxically, could be a great deal for the Ukronazis as this would trigger a crisis serious enough to justify martial law and any imaginable crackdown in civil and human rights.

Alternatively, if Poroshenko comes up with some kind of pretext to either cancel the 2nd round or with some trick to prevent Zelenskii from participating, then there is a very real risk that the 80%+ of people who voted against Poroshenko and who hate the current regime with all their heart will protest, possibly violently. We can be sure that the repression will be ruthless and violent.

For all these reasons the situation right now is the most dangerous one since the Euromaidan.

The key issue here is what will the AngloZionist Empire decide? The problem here is that it has been years since the USA has had anything even vaguely resembling a “US foreign policy”. Under Obama and, even more so under Mr MAGA, the State Department has become just a public information agency whose sole role is to deliver either sanctions, or threats, or both. This is absolutely crucial so I will repeat it:

There is no such thing as a “US foreign policy”

What we do see is key agencies, actors, individuals all having their own “mini foreign policies” which sometimes brings about goofy results (like when the CIA and the Pentagon support different sides in a conflict). In fact, the two main branches of Ukrainian politics – Nazis and Zionists – are both richly represented in the US government and various entities support different candidates and different agendas. The same is also true for the EU, but since the EU is almost irrelevant (Victoria Nuland was quite right about that), this does not matter.

It would be an exaggeration to say that the US lost control of the Ukraine, but Trump clearly cares very little about the Ukronazis and as for Trump’s puppet masters, they don’t seem to be able to agree on a single policy towards this issue. Hence we see in the Ukraine what we see everywhere in Trump’s pretend foreign policy: absolute, total chaos.

What about Russia in all this?

Right now the big debate in Russia is “to recognize the outcome of this election or not?”. Both sides have very strong arguments and the Kremlin keeps making very vague statements clearly waiting for the outcome of the 2nd round of the election. This is a very tricky question made even more complex by a growing realization amongst many observers that recognizing the Poroshenko regime the first time around was a big mistake. Personally, it seems to me that at this point in time all the Kremlin can do is wait and see what will take place. After all, Poroshenko is truly cornered and there is a high likelihood that he will do something dramatic to avoid a 2nd round of voting. Consider this:

The infamous Minister of the Interior, Arsen Avakov, arguably currently the most powerful and dangerous man in the Ukraine, has made an most interesting statement about Zelenskii:

“A decent man from another world. From another plane. Ready to deal with problems, but at the same time recognizing that in many issues he is not fully competent. In my understanding, this means that he is ready to delegate authority. However, the question arises: can we – Ukrainian society – offer the quality of the elite, which can be entrusted with the implementation of such powers? After all, if he delegates authority to scoundrels – as it happens in some series of “Servants of the people” – it will be very bad for the country. Using expats is also not an option…”(…) “He knows for sure that from point A it is necessary to come to point B, and I am ready to agree with it. But the problem is how to go this way. Often, if you go head-on, you will crash into a wall or break. Therefore, it is necessary to choose the right path – and here should work competent and honest specialists”

In plain English this simply means: Zelenskii has no personal power base, he will be a puppet, so he better offer me a good deal (“delegate authority“), or I will turn against him and, how knows, an unpredictable accident (“you will crash into a wall or break“) can easily happen. Shocking? Welcome to “Ukrainian thug politics”! Besides, if the Nazis decide to kill Zelenskii they can easily blame it on Russia. Either that, or on a “lone, deranged, gunman” which they can find in the thousands amongst the various Nazi death-squads.

Right now the Nazis are in a total panic, they are declaring that Zelenskii’s victory is “Moscow’s triumph”, they say that Zelenskii will sell out everything Ukrainian and that he is a Putin agent. At the very least, they will now dig up as much dirt on Zelenskii as possible (whether real or manufactured). Thus literally anything can happen in the next couple of weeks, ranging from some kind of scandal in Zelenskii’s past to a Ukronazi attack on the Donbass.

This is why the Kremlin must now wait and see what happens next.

The kind of “Ukraine” the Empire approves of: obedient entertainers and jesters for the “indispensable nation”
The kind of “Ukraine” the Empire approves of: obedient entertainers and jesters for the “indispensable nation”

However, since in practical and political terms the difference between Poroshenko and Zelenskii is roughly the difference between Coca-Cola and Pepi-Cola, the Kremlin knows that no matter who actually wins, the russophobic policies of the current Ukronazi regime will not change. Furthermore, there is a increasingly vocal segment of the Russian public opinion which is totally fed-up and disgusted with the Ukronazis and which now demands a much tougher stance towards the Ukraine.

In truth, there is a broader unfavorable context which makes a redefinition of Russia’s policies towards her neighbors both urgently needed and very delicate: two key Russian allies (or “assumed allies”?) like Belarus and Kazakhstan are acting in very ambiguous and sometimes even anti-Russian manner and there is clearly a renewed effort of the Empire to break these two countries out of the Russian sphere of influence and subordinated them to AngloZionist interests. Right now the Kremlin is trying to appease Lukashenko by giving him even more money ($600 million) and I am not so sure that this is the right approach. As for Kazakhstan, so far the Russians are pretending that all is well and dandy in spite of the fact that an increasing number of ethnic Russians are, again, leaving the country and seeking refuge in Russia. Frankly, there is only that much one can get with carrots, and holding a visible stick might be more helpful in this case, especially considering that the Empire has many more “carrots” (money) to offer than Russia.

If insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results, it is time for the Russians to come up with new policies towards their most important neighbors. If not, then “more of the same, only worse” is all Russia will get.

As for the Empire, it does what it always does
Western values in action
Western values in action

Finally, I want to conclude here by focusing on the absolutely despicable, revolting and totally hypocritical self-induced blindness of the West about this election. If all this had happened in Russia (or Venezuela, or Iran) the entire united West would be up in arms denouncing the ‘stolen election’ and threatening fire and brimstone if the Russians did not immediately fall on their knees and kiss the Emperor’s ring (I wonder what kind of ring, if any, Trump has) or something to that effect. But since the toxic regime of Ukronazis cum Zionists in Kiev is “our son of a bitch”, the leaders of the Empire are acting like the three monkeys: see nothing, hear nothing and, above all, say nothing.

Truly, the AngloZionist Empire must be the most hypocritical and dishonest in world history. Think of it:

ORDER IT NOW

Pretty much all the candidates have declared that this election was stolen. As did all the Ukrainian media not controlled by Poroshenko. Not only that, but millions (some estimates are as high as 10 million) of Ukrainians (mostly, but not only, aboard) were prevented from voting. Thousands of complaints were officially lodged. But no, the global West did not notice. As for the US, it declared this election free and fair (now there is a surprise!).

At the very least, the Empire could have made a (very credible) “Guaido” out of Tymoshenko (who clearly should have been either first or second), but she was ditched, probably as way too smart and too potentially independent minded: the Empire likes its puppet to be stupid, or drunk, or both (think Eltsin or Poroshenko here). Having to chose between two non-entities like Zelenskiii or Poroshenko is much preferable for the Neocons than to have to deal with a smart women like Tymoshenko and, thus, no amount of russophobia on her part will be sufficient to reassure the World Hegemon that she is worth preserving.

UPDATE: as usual, the Ukie politics does stuff which is almost impossible to imagine. This time around, Zelenskii accepted to debate Poroshenko but on 2 conditions: they would both take a blood/urine test to check for psychotropic substances (not sure about alcohol) and the debate would take place… … in a stadium with 70’000 people! Poroshenko accepted and both candidates were seen on local TV giving their blood for testing (no, I am not joking!). This is going to be amazing! 35’000 pro-Nazis plus another 35’000 pro-Zionists in one stadium, these two clowns (Poroshenko is even more a clown than Zelenskii, except that he is not funny at all) will be debating each other on live TV in the middle. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether this will ever happen, but it if does, it will be truly a moment to behold 🙂

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Israel, Petro Poroshenko, Russia, Ukraine 
Hide 92 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. AP says:

    Everybody in the Ukraine knows that the Ukraine went from being the richest Soviet Republic to the poorest country in Europe

    In Soviet times Ukraine was was poorer than Russia, Belarus, and the Baltic Republics.

    And Moldova is the poorest country in Europe.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=UA-RU-BY-MD

    • Replies: @yurivku
    , @Plato's Dream
  2. yurivku says:
    @AP

    bullshit (lie) as alway

    • Replies: @slorter
  3. Patricus says:

    How come the nations geographically closest to Russia hate her the most?

  4. anon[744] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patricus

    how come jews are hated everywhere they go?

    its a mystery

    • Replies: @Prof Watson
  5. The scalpel says: • Website

    Regarding Belarus, can someone explain the occasional news stories that Belarus has decided to join Russia in a “Union State”? There was a recent article on RT regarding this

  6. One Tribe says:

    It is rationally difficult to overlook the dramatic statistical over-representation of the common self-identifying affiliation of the front-runners in this key geopolitical location, despite the fact that Tymoshenko has kept it typically ‘quiet‘.
    Analysts compare these front-runners on their differences, most, as is the case with the censorship directives under the auspicious of the Empire, but it looks like no matter who would win, they would be associated with the global extra-national Rabbinical Talmudism.
    Why ‘the Ukraine’?
    – Ukraine was one of the first places colonized by the Khazars, after their adoption of the cloak and adopted and enhanced that system of undermining, and ultimately subordinating existing communities/geopolitical entities. at their initial landing pad from their primary migration from south-central Asia into the European (western Eurasia) sphere.
    – Galicia was a place of dominance by the Khazar adherents of Rabbinical Talmudism, and it serves as a prime example of what we all have in store, if this social disease is not stopped; I refer readers here to look into Douglas Reed’s accounts in Far and Wide (available at: http://www.douglasreed.co.uk/far.pdf ), and the seminal Controversy of Zion; if one investigates the well-established trend of social behaviour of this extremist cult, one would suspect that this move is ‘taking back‘ legacy lands; the ‘trope‘ of them not liking to release lands that they have previously captured, is factually trend, and thus well-measurable. Furthermore, it was in Galicia that the twin evils of ‘Bolshevism‘ and ‘Zionism were contrived as defacto strategies for global control.

    please see comment at http://thesaker.is/a-few-initial-thoughts-about-the-first-round-of-the-ukrainian-presidential-election/#comment-632642

    … Ordinary Jews are goys like you and me, and rather uncomfortable with the chequered heritage of their mind-control tribe, …

    Please note: anybody who refers to themselves as goy, is themselves accepting and reinforcing a neurotic worldview of the adherents of Rabbinical Talmudism, and thus dsiplaying behavioural characteristics of “… their mind-control…”.
    goy is a highly derogatory term, well-indoctrinated in the adherents of Rabbinical Talmudism, as an inferior, human-looking only beast, existing for the servitude of adherents of their in-group.

    If an adherent of Rabbinical Talmudism is, as you suggest, “…like you and I…“, i.e. neither of us included in the in-group, then why to they continue to self-identify with the label used for adherents of Rabbinical Talmudism?
    I suggest that it is because, ultimately, they want to continue to benefit from the benefits of membership, and thus are obligated to perform pay back duties/activities if and when called on to do so.
    If a person self-identifies with this group, the person is inherently in contract with this group, to perform activities benefiting this group, regardless of the overall consequences to everyone else, i.e. humanity.

    I recommend educating these self-identifiers with the facts of this group’s ideology over the past 2500 years, which is exceedingly well-documented, so they may emancipate themselves, and ultimately, publicly disavow association with it, thereby diminishing the genocidal, and ultimately suicidal, campaigns of Rabbinical Talmudism.

    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @Macon Richardson
    , @Miro23
  7. Zelenski means green man and has Polish indication. So he is one of the holocaust survivors.
    (There are suspiciously too many of them these days.)
    Timoshenko was virulently anti Russian but not so much anymore.
    All industrial plants in Ukraine were built by Russians making products for Russia,
    I have doubt that they can make anything that west needs. So Ukraine now is fully depended on agriculture. That is why Ukraine is going down.
    Most votes went to Zelenski that is indication that Ukrainians now did loose their enthusiasm,
    and they are becoming more lethargic.

    • Replies: @Wally
  8. Galicia is multicultural area consisting mostly Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian, Russian, and some other nationals. There is no unity there, and never will be.

  9. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Maybe Galicia should be returned to Poland? From my blog:

    May 1, 2017 – Must Ukraine Return Volhynia?

    Hillary Clinton’s State Department funneled $5 billion to orchestrate a “revolution” to overthrow the elected President of Ukraine in 2014. (See my June 7, 2016 blog post for details.) Ukraine’s President was ousted because he refused to support Ukraine joining the EU and NATO, and violence spread throughout Ukraine as CIA funded factions fought for power.

    Crimea was part of Russia for over a century until it was administratively attached to Ukraine in 1954 by a Soviet premier to promote Soviet solidarity. Russians are the majority people in Crimea and Russian is the common language, but they were not consulted. In 2014, after years of Ukrainian political turmoil and an American coup in Kiev, Russia accepted a request by the people of Crimea to rejoin Russia after 94% voted in favor. (See my Aug 8, 2016 blog post for details.) Russians and Crimeans were puzzled by intense American opposition to this reannexation, and rightly concluded the Americans really wanted “NATO” military bases in strategic Crimea.

    For those concerned about European borders and justice, they should address a truly outrageous annexation. In 1939, the Soviet Union invaded Poland and seized half of its land while Soviet police massacred 22,000 influential Polish POWs and civilians. This area was invaded by Germany two years later, which formed Ukrainian paramilitary units that murdered over 100,000 Poles during the war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

    Entire Polish villages disappeared as Ukrainians massacred everyone to include women and children, who were buried in mass graves. After the war, the Polish regions of Volhynia and Eastern Galicia were formally annexed by Soviet Ukraine after 1.5 million Poles were forcibly deported. Over the next decade, another 1.5 million Poles were deported by Ukraine to ethically cleanse these regions (noted in yellow below).

    The West did nothing about this brutality because it occurred within the powerful Soviet Union. However, that union broke up and Ukraine is weak and at odds with Russia. On July 22, 2016, the Parliament of Poland passed a resolution recognizing the massacres of ethnic Poles in Volhynia and Galicia as genocide. Poland is now part of NATO and American troops are based there. Thousands of Poles are still alive who were expelled from these regions. Homes and land were seized from millions of Poles. Ukrainian war criminals remain at large.

    This raises several questions. If Poland demands a return of its territory or compensation for Poles, will powerful NATO support its demand? Will sanctions be imposed against Ukraine for this genocide and illegal seizure of Polish territory? Since Crimea was attached to Ukraine without a democratic vote, and the citizens of Crimea voted to rejoin Russia, should sanctions against Russia be removed?

    Informed people know these issues will never be addressed because NATO does not exist to protect member states, but is a proxy arm of America’s neocon empire trying to conquer the world. However, as Poland’s military grows stronger and Ukraine struggles, this issue may arise, and crafty Russia may support a return of Poland’s, Slovakia’s, and Romania’s seized territories!

    Territorial evolution of Ukraine 1922–54 [800×475] from MapPorn

    • Agree: Robjil, annamaria
  10. Vojkan says:
    @Patricus

    With the exception of the Baltic states, that simply isn’t true of any nation from the former Soviet Union. Otherwise, the Russians couldn’t have set up the Eurasian Customs Union which covers ~90% of the former USSR. There are even many Georgians working in Russia, in spite of the short war that was started by US dummy and former Georgian then Ukrainian, now stateless, Mikheil Saakashvili.

  11. Vojkan says:

    I say the best solution for Ukraine would be to leave the nazis among themselves by giving independence to Galicia. If it’s the price to pay to reintegrate Donbass, for the economy, and for peace and stability, it’s worth it.

  12. Vojkan says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Poles would be crazy to take back Galicia. Just fence the nazi lunatics in with electrified barbed wire and leave them among themselves.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @annamaria
  13. @One Tribe

    Well, yes, in a fashion. I’m from the old South (Roosevelt was in his second term when I was born). Though I was educated at a fine old southern university and though I have lived a significant part of my adult life in Europe, Asia and Africa, I still revel in being called a redneck, a hick, a yokel, a cracker. I embrace all of those terms because they only illustrate the ignorance of those who use them in a derogatory manner. I also embrace being a part of the goyim. Those who use those terms to wound only shows their fear, their own sense of inferiority to me, to us, Christian southerners both white and black.

  14. Miro23 says:
    @One Tribe

    I suggest that it is because, ultimately, they want to continue to benefit from the benefits of membership, and thus are obligated to perform pay back duties/activities if and when called on to do so.

    If a person self-identifies with this group, the person is inherently in contract with this group, to perform activities benefiting this group, regardless of the overall consequences to everyone else, i.e. humanity.

    Agreed that this is now little more than a mafia for-profit organization – complete with the political corruption, blackmail, extortion, murders, rule of silence (omerta) and “made men”.

    IMO the religious aspect now counts for little. The Sicilian mafia were also religious family men.

    • Replies: @One Tribe
  15. “Zionist praise for a Nazi”

    Poroshenko has Jewish ancestry, you dimwit.

    Go read the article in Forward called ‘Poroshenko’s Secret Jewish Roots’.

    Ukraine has three Jewish men in a row as prime minister. How interesting, given their rather low population percentage.

  16. @Carlton Meyer

    Largest part of Galicia did belong to Slovakia. To Poland did belong only Lvov and surrounding area.
    (Although most populated.)

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  17. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patricus

    Ask your latinamericans neighbours how much they love the USA

    • Replies: @anon
  18. mikemikev says:
    @jbwilson24

    Yes they’re a strange type of Nazi to install a Jewish leader. “Nazism” in most people’s minds is synonymous with anti-Jewism. Are they that?

  19. The Ukraine is another example of The Protocols of Zion at work again, the bolsheviks are destroyers of man and beast and countries!

  20. Rich says:

    Nazi, Nazi, Nazi. Do these guys ever stop? It reminds me of the old Jews in Queens, NY, every time they got into a disagreement with anyone, they yelled “Nazi”. Even the regular Jews got sick of it. The Ukrainians have a long history of nationalist thinkers, opposed to Russian domination. Like the Finns, the Ukrainian patriots may have taken German support in WW2, but that doesn’t make the “Nazis”. The National Socialists were a unique party to the Germany of the 1930s, would you call Italian Fascists “Nazis”?

    • Agree: Mr. Hack, Carroll Price
    • Replies: @Wally
  21. @Patricus

    Is that a serious question?

    Ask yourself why, in general, one country/nation hates another? It’s because of attempts at invasion and domination. And historically, who is going to invade/dominate you? Those geographically closest obviously. Sure, there are exceptions to this–the Mongol Empire, the Arab Caliphate, and most strikingly, the Western invasion of…well, everywhere in the 16th-20th centuries.

    But in most of the world most of the time for most of human existence, it’s the guy next door who is going to screw you and whom you in turn will screw.

    Irish-English. German-French. Serb-Croat. Arab-Persian. Vietnamese-Cambodian. Tutsi-Hutu. Iroquois-Algonkian. Navajo-Hopi.

    So why would you be surprised?

    One commenter suggested a comparison with Latin American attitudes towards the US. This is partly true, but there are several differences. First, national identity is, on the whole, relatively weak in New World. What does it really mean to be a Honduran? Secondly, the main US security mechanism in the Western Hemisphere has been its navy which means relatively less direct occupation and repression of places like Mexico. Russia, invaded from East and West, has always sought security zones that inevitably mean occupation and subjugation. Third, US hegemonism has only really gotten going over the last 125 years, so it hasn’t had as much time to antagonize its neighbors, and we had the good fortune of ravaging most of the locals near at hand with the small pox, etc that we brought along with us.

    These factors combine to explain why the hatred quotient towards Russia by its neighbors is higher than that towards the US.

  22. Wally says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    said:
    “Zelenski means green man and has Polish indication. So he is one of the holocaust survivors.
    (There are suspiciously too many of them these days.)”

    – The endless numbers of “survivors” are especially amazing since it’s claimed that ‘the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.’

    Proper spelling: “holocau$t survivor$”.

    – Especially amazing since the alleged ‘gas chambers’ were scientifically impossible.

    – Especially amazing since the alleged millions upon millions of humans remains said to exist in known locations in fact do not exist.

    It’s not complicated.

    http://www.codoh.com

  23. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Galicia is multicultural area consisting mostly Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian, Russian, and some other nationals. There is no unity there, and never will be.

    Then why do they seem to behave politically in ways that set them apart from all those around them?

  24. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Largest part of Galicia did belong to Slovakia.

    Really? I never thought of Slovaks as owning much of anything–not even Slovakia historically. Hungarians, Austrians, Czechs all dominated Slovakia. Could you expand on your notion of the majority of Galicia belonging to Slovakia?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  25. Wally says:
    @Vojkan

    You mean ‘the nazis’ that Israel is arming which is an admission that ‘the nazis” did not do what is alleged of them.

    http://www.codoh.com

  26. Wally says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    saod:
    “This area was invaded by Germany two years later, which formed Ukrainian paramilitary units that murdered over 100,000 Poles during the war.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
    Entire Polish villages disappeared as Ukrainians massacred everyone to include women and children, who were buried in mass graves. ”

    – Really? You cannot be serious. Where is the proof of the alleged “100,000 massacred Poles”?
    – In fact there no human remains from your claimed “mass graves” to be seen. We know why.
    – You tip your hand when you quote Zionist controlled Wikipedia on such matters.
    It’s amazing or revealing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    It’s not complicated.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @anon
  27. Beckow says:

    When a sitting president anywhere in the world runs for re-election and gets 15%, the decent thing is to step aside. It doesn’t matter how many other candidates run, there could be hundreds – what matters is that 85% of people voted against Porky as their first choice. He has been in the office for 5 years and 85% of people want someone else. How much clearer could this be? This was a massive vote of no-confidence by Ukrainians. If Porky squeezes or cheats his way into staying as president, he is asking for trouble – it is not sustainable and Washington knows it.

    Galicia and Donbas also clearly cannot coexist in the same non-federated state, they are on opposite sides.

    Economy: is it not going to get better. The bad news have been pushed after the elections, and in 2020 two things will happen:
    – Kiev will have to start paying back at least some of the Western loans
    – Income from gas transit will be gone (and possibly the gas itself).

    That takes away 3-5% of the Ukrainian economy. If Russia piles on and restricts more trade, or limits remittances, there will inevitably by a recession in Ukraine. The circus is about to re-start, no wonder the clowns are renting stadiums. But at some point the distractions will cease to distract – and then the damn reality will hit even harder…

  28. Wally says:
    @Rich

    Yep, that’s one of big reasons that the fake & impossible “holocaust” was contrived in the first place.

    Desperately calling someone ‘a Nazi’ is an attempt win a debate without debating.

    Saker embarrasses himself with his immature & bizarre obsession with ‘Nazis this, Nazis that’. It’s too bad because when he writes articles about the Russian military & Russian international political issues he comes off as being informed and fair. But the Zionist indoctrination that he otherwise suffers from dies hard

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  29. annamaria says:
    @Vojkan

    The Poles deserve the ziocon-“renovated” & “liberated” Galicia festering with the active Banderites. Look how the Poles have been treating the monuments to the fallen Soviet soldiers. Let the Poles enjoy their passionate brotherly love with the ZUSA.

    As Saker writes,

    Fundamentally, Nazis and Zionists are twin brothers, even if deep down they hate (and often admire!) each other.

    If there is something positive about Maidan regime change, it is the revelation of the ziocons active role in the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine. The revelation is a death blow to the holo-biz profiteering schema.

    Whether the Jewish State’s provisions of Israel-made ammunition to the neo-Nazis or the ADL & Simon Wiesenthal Center support for the neo-Nazi (see the zionists scandalous behavior re the Conyers’ Amendment), the zionists did indeed come out (again!) as the “twin brothers” of the worsts among Nazis.
    https://portside.org/2014-11-20/how-israel-lobby-protected-ukrainian-neo-nazis

  30. annamaria says:
    @jbwilson24

    “How interesting, given their rather low population percentage.”
    — 0.02%, actually

    • Replies: @anon
  31. I disagree that Porky is dumb. He successfully fleeced the whole country, including competing oligarchs, for 5 years. Dumb are the people who still support him. Ukrainians voting for Porky are like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders. But some morons never learn.

    Porky might be fond of his drink. He showed up seriously inebriated several times publicly, but he wouldn’t be able to steal hundreds of millions consistently while being drunk all the time. Saakashvili (admittedly, hardly a reliable source of info) said that Porky ran the country into the ground being sober. Well, Porky never cared about the country, all he is interested in is the trough. That’s why he wants five more years of stealing, and he is reluctant to yield his place at the trough to someone else.

    Most importantly, the masters are OK with it. Imperial gauleiter of Ukraine Volker has already voiced his support for Porky. Porky would likely be more obedient than anyone else: he can be blackmailed, as he has already earned gallows (or life in prison in countries that don’t have death penalty). So, the masters have already chosen their favorite puppet. We’ll see on April 21st how much influence they have.

    I am not saying that Zelensky (and his puppet master Kolomoisky) won’t do, but from masters’ point of view old clown is apparently preferable to the new one.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @annamaria
  32. Robjil says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Transcarpathia is a long extension of Slovakia. It was taken from Czechoslovakia after WWII and given to Soviet Ukraine. The people of this region never thought of themselves as Ukrainian or Galician but as Rusyns or Ruthenians. Transcarpathia was mainly given to Soviet Union because it is a good gateway for tanks into Eastern Europe such as the case for Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968. This region also has a large Hungarian population, since Hungary used to rule it in the Austro-Hungarian empire times.

  33. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website

    Migrant-Marauders on the loose.

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=186336

  34. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …old clown is apparently preferable to the new one

    For some he is preferable, he is more reliable. Anytime a new clown is elevated, there is some unpredictability. Bosses hate surprises.

    On the other hand, the first step when things don’t go well, is to rotate the clowns. We got Macron, the German doppelganger for Merkel, elites tried Renzi in Italy, so maybe Zelinsky could work. He is a complete tabula rasa, non-entity, that wouldn’t know how to find the executive washroom. At a minimum, he would buy some time. Next they can still try Tymoshenko. This will not get resolved through the political process.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  35. anon[593] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    “How interesting, given their rather low population percentage.”
    — 0.02%, actually

    this seems very low because weren’t there jews historically in Ukraine?

    if accurate it needs to be pointed out over and over again because jews were the ones who said it was basically immoral that the 10% that founded and built South Africa (whites) ruled over the 90% of blacks that migrated there

  36. anon[593] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    – You tip your hand when you quote Zionist controlled Wikipedia on such matters.
    It’s amazing or revealing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    i noticed about 10 years ago the leftist bias – it seemed like the “editors” had all day to sit there and watch and remove anything they didn’t like

    makes more sense if (((someone))) is paying them

    ====================================
    ===================================

    also, thanks Wally for weighing in on this:

    “This area was invaded by Germany two years later, which formed Ukrainian paramilitary units that murdered over 100,000 Poles during the war.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
    Entire Polish villages disappeared as Ukrainians massacred everyone to include women and children, who were buried in mass graves. ”

    – Really? You cannot be serious. Where is the proof of the alleged “100,000 massacred Poles”?
    – In fact there no human remains from your claimed “mass graves” to be seen. We know why.

    it sounded like bullshit when i read it yesterday but there are only so many free hours to investigate these things

  37. anon[593] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    the feeling is mutual thanks to the unending stream of brown parasites

  38. @Beckow

    Next they can still try Tymoshenko. This will not get resolved through the political process.

    Why not? If the masters allow new clown to win, Gas princess can be made the speaker of the Rada. Then an unfortunate accident can be easily arranged, and she becomes next successor perfectly legally. The masters do these things pretty often: remember Ulof Palme or Aldo Moro. Zelensky can be got rid of the same way, if the masters decide that it’s to their benefit.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  39. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    That’s a possible scenario. But in that part of the world, scenarios never play out the way they are planned.

    I am not sure what is left to be gained in Ukraine, it is all costs and very few benefits. That’s what happens when the layered lying becomes so convoluted that the masters lose track of the objectives.

    They wanted Crimea (actually Russia out of Crimea bases, NATO in) – that failed. Everything else were distractions, false promises, and payoffs to locals. A normal master would accept the defeat, take his toys home, and wait for the next time. The post-modern Washingtonians instead pretend that the sweet talk was real, try for silly, secondary objectives (how about a few missiles on the Russian border? that would work out great), or refuse to accept the obvious. Making the whole fiasco more costly.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  40. One Tribe says:
    @jbwilson24

    JB, I’m trying to figure out what your point is?!
    Could you please boil it down; what is your point?
    And, if you don’t mind, could you explain the ‘dimwit’ assignment?

    Maybe the first answer will cover both questions.

  41. @Beckow

    The only reason they didn’t abandon failed Ukrainian project I can see is that from imperial standpoint the more irritants you create for Russia, the better. Current Ukraine is an irritant. When its further disintegrates and becomes a huge Somalia on Russian doorstep, it would become an even grater irritant. Of course, Poles would suffer, too, but when did the masters take aborigines into account?

    As to a few missiles on Russian border, they already have that in Baltic vaudeville states, which are much closer to Moscow and especially Sankt Petersburg then Zhmerinka.

    Then again, I am looking at it rationally, whereas Washington politburo is getting even less rational that the Soviet one under Brezhnev.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  42. One Tribe says:
    @Miro23

    Thank you for your sharing.

    …this is now little more than a mafia for-profit organization…

    I am not in agreement with you on this.
    While upon inspection, I agree that the designation of this ideological extra-national affiliation as a ‘religion‘ is a pretense for gaining extra privileges/rights and exceptions from responsibilities, under the various host nation-state systems, and furthermore that according to expert testimony that most self-identifying affiliates are ‘not religious‘, this organization is substantial and sophisticated, and much, much more than your… somewhat dismissive, comments suggests.

    While the tactics seem similar, magnified as they are by the full capability of a modern, extremely well-financed nation-state-like ‘intelligence’ apparatus, it makes the operational capability of the adherents of Rabbinical Talmudism an order of magnitude more dangerous, so as to be one of the leading existential threats to the continuance of humankind.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  43. annamaria says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Who is Kurt Volker? https://mronline.org/2018/09/20/natos-fascist-wedge-in-ukraine/

    In April this year [2018] the U.S. supplied Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine and in May 2018 the U.S. Congress approved $250m of military funding, specifically including deliveries of lethal weaponry.

    President Donald Trump’s special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker (a neocon, acolyte of senator John McCain, previously appointed by George Bush as U.S. ambassador to NATO) announced further U.S. arms supplies would follow, boasting of rising anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine.

    https://therealnews.com/stories/max-blumenthal-us-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine

    Kurt Volker, similar to the deceased McCain, is a loyal servant to ziocons and war profiteers. Actually, Volker is a war profiteer himself.

    The US’s envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, who is connected to Raytheon, is in favor of this arms shipment, and it’s inevitable that it [arms shipment] will reach Azov [Battalion]…

    Azov Battalion functions in a lot of ways like ISIS has in Syria and Iraq … Azov camps with an enormous trove of weapons .. we are talking about hundreds of pounds of C4 explosives, automatic weapons and grenade launchers.

    Azov’s own website demonstrates that US military trainers have visited Azov in the field to train and exchange logistical information. They appeared in uniform with Azov Battalion members who were wearing the wolf’s angel patch, which is a Nazi SS symbol, a runic neo-Nazi symbol on their arm. This is just a scandalous spectacle. Not only that, contracts have been revealed showing that the Texas-based AirTronic arms company has produced PSRL-1 grenade launchers that were actually authorized under this watch of the State Department and delivered directly into the hands of the Azov Battalion. The US has armed Azov.

    Again, what the ADL has been squeaking about — that there are too many Holo-biz Deniers? — The zionists have been in cahoots with the neo-Nazi throughout the whole State Dept. criminal enterprise in Ukraine. The Kagans clan of holo-biz survivors and other pro-Nazi Jewish activists such as Gershman (NED) and Foxman (ADL) have been the moving force towards banderization of Ukraine (Babij Yar, ADL?).

    None of them cares about the memory of WWII victims … the zionists only care about profits. As for Kurt Volker, he is with zionists in the search for mega-profit. He is a regular opportunist devoid of dignity.

  44. slorter says:
    @yurivku

    Well thanks for all the detailed information appreciate that cleared everything up for me!!!

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  45. slorter says:

    Again an interesting piece of information for reference thank you!

  46. annamaria says:

    Kurt Volker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Volker

    Volker served on the staff of Senator John McCain from 1997 to 1998.

    He was appointed United States Permanent Representative to NATO in July 2008 by President George W. Bush.

    Volker went into the private sector in 2009, becoming an independent director at The Wall Street Fund Inc. He was a member of the board of directors at Capital Guardian Funds Trust… Volker was also an independent director at Evercore Wealth Management Macro Opportunity Fund…

    Volker served as a senior advisor at McLarty Associates, a global consulting firm. In 2011, he joined BGR Group, a Washington-based lobbying firm and investment bank…

    He has been a Senior Fellow at the Center for Transatlantic Relations, Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies since September 2009, and a Senior Advisor at the Atlantic Council since October 2009. [Atlantic Council has been a safe harbor for the rabidly Russophobic Elliot Higgins and Dmitri Alperovich of Russia-gate fame, https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/29/how-russia-gate-rationalizes-censorship/)

    Kurt Volker, a certified war profiteer and money manager using his position as a government employee for making money on lobbying … What can be wrong with his judgements?

  47. Tedx says:

    Special Education comment for the fluoride-lobotomized vegetables, known internationally as AMERICANS: Petro Poroshenko, described in this article as the figurehead of rhe “Nazis” is a Jew. When the US sponsored the coup in the Ukraine, both the democratically elected President and Prime Minister were replaced by Jews.
    The alleged Neo-Nazis, “Right Sector” were unemployed punks led by Israeli mercenaries, virtually unchallenged by effectively bribed, Ukrainian military commanders.
    If Adolf Hitler were alive today and controlled the Ukraine, he would order that — without exception — every member of Right Sector be either euthanized or sterilized to prevent the Right Sector Stupid Gene to infect the Aryan Race.
    Anyone or any organization that refers to the Jewish president of the Ukraine and his followers as “Nazis” are obviously Zionist propaganda agents misleading the mentally feeble.

  48. Art says:

    the leaders of the Empire are acting like the three monkeys: see nothing, hear nothing and, above all, say nothing.

    Look like the Ukraine is Jew territory. It is another lost nation. All their politicians are in some way Jews.

    The Jew controlled US empire leaders have turned the Ukraine over to the US Jews and their Prime Minister Netanyahu.

  49. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    When we were kids we would climb into neighbours’ gardens to steal cherries. You climb up a tree, break a few branches, take the cherries. No guilt. Every kid feels ‘exceptional, it is something that comes naturally to all 12-year olds.

    The weird thing about modern Washingtonians is that they never outgrew that infantile stage. They still feel ‘exceptional’, taking other people’s stuff is ok. Why wouldn’t be ? If one is exceptional, he is by definition better than others, and the others really have no rights, except the ones given to them by the exceptional people.

    When a thieving raid by the exceptional people is blocked – as in Crimea – it leaves no good options. Should one admit that they were about to take the ‘stuff’ (the Sebastopol bases), lost out, and simply retreat? No, it is hard to stay exceptional when losing. Image and perceptions are everything in Washington.

    Should they escalate and try to storm Crimea to get what they want and deserve? Again, no, because exceptional people can’t risk hurt or injury, they are too precious, they are after all ‘exceptional’.

    Should they send their decidedly unexceptional underlings to storm Crimea? Well, that would be ideal, but the underlings are too stupid to even get into the garden, and climbing a tree is way beyond their ability. One can train them, send them ladders – but everyone knows that they will never do it.

    That leaves the least bad option of sticking around to ‘irritate‘ Russia. There is not much gain in it, it gets old very quickly, it is also costly and even dangerous. But it preserves the image of ‘exceptional’ people, it can be spun around for different perceptions, and it makes the local allies less antsy and less likely to run away with their loot. Other than that it achieves nothing.

    That’s where we are: a bunch of unserious morons sitting in a car parked outside the cherry orchard, scared to go in, scared to leave, hoping that nobody notices, and still craving the sweet cherries without even being able to admit that’s what they are there for.

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @annamaria
  50. @anon

    People do not like “termites”.

  51. @slorter

    That’s called laconic speech. No use to waste breath on that guy who was not even alive when Ukraine was part of the Soviet union.

    • Replies: @yurivku
  52. @Tedx

    It’s no contradiction at all. Israels have been behaving very much like Nazis toward the Palestinians in the occupied territories.

    • Agree: annamaria
  53. Or as some say “Zionism is Nazism”.

    But I’m not sure accusing the Banderites of being neo-Nazis is quite correct. Although Stepan Bandera cooperated with the occupying Nazis at various times, he did in fact spend most of the war inside a Nazi concentration camp, and as an inmate not as a prison guard. He was just an Ukranian nationalist opposed to both the German Nazis and the Russian Soviets, and his brothers died in Auschwitz while his sister died in a Soviet gulag. I’m sure he wasn’t a pleasant character and of course his followers were brutal murderers but which side wasn’t?

  54. yurivku says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    No use to waste breath on that guy …

    Well, I’m not gonna to. Thanx

    • Replies: @yurivku
  55. I just find the whole Ukranian fiasco tragic considering we have two white nations, Russians and Ukranians, both in serious demographic decline killing each other and planning to continue killing each other some more.

    And I’m not sure I like Saker’s tone when writing about Ukranians. It seems he’s denigrating and making fun of them, kind of the way the Daily Stormer writes about blacks, but with less humour and more condescension. I wouldn’t expect that from a serious intellectual writer. And if this is the attitude Russians have towards Ukranians, then I can understand Ukranians being nationalistic and hating them in turn. After all Ukraine SSR was a founding member of the United Nations in 1945 and as a separate entity from the USSR; i.e. it had a separate seat in the General Assembly and was therefore a separate country for all intents and purposes of the UN throughout the Soviet era.

    But I can also understand Russia wanting to keep Ukraine out of NATO for the sake of its own security, and out of the EU too. Looking at how things now stand, all those East European countries shouldn’t have joined EU and NATO but rather formed their own block so as to resist pressures from both the western EU and the eastern Russia. It’s not the end of history yet so maybe in the future something like this would be possible.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @EugeneGur
    , @Avery
  56. @Beckow

    An interesting simile, but not quite correct. The objectives of the Empire are not as innocent as stealing neighbor’s cherries. They are more like killing neighbor’s dog and raping neighbor’s wife. However, the imperial impotence is just as you described.

  57. yurivku says:
    @yurivku

    2 @Sergey Krieger
    Reading from the phone I believed you’ve written that to me. Sorry. To explain the clear things is out of my desires.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  58. @Commentator Mike

    Ukrainian and Belorussian seats at the UN were negotiated by Stalin, based on his military strengths and imperial appetite. So, Ukraine owes him that, as well as at least a quarter of its territory.

    Russians used to see Ukrainians as equals. After watching a protracted suicide of their would-be country since 2014, especially considering that this suicide started with treason, the attitudes changed a lot. Even under the best circumstances the recovery would take at least a generation.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  59. Truth3 says:

    It’s simpler than all that.

    First of all, the clowns pretending to be (((Nazis))) are just the muscle that the Jews use to grab Ukraine (New Khazaria) away from the Russian citizens of the region.

    There are no Nazis. They are Jewish organized and led clowns.

    Did you hear me Saker? You are an idiot to keep ignoring this basic fact. You border on gatekeeper because of your fraudulent analysis.

    Second of all, Poroshenko (((Waltzmann))), Timoshenko (((Kapitelman))), and everyone else in the New Khazarian leadership ranks are JEWS! No real ‘Russian-Ukrainian’ persons are allowed near the handles of power, unless they are tightly controlled ShabboGoy.

    Ukraine means the borderland. Russian Ukraine was Rus, bordering the enemies (Poles, Jews, Turks). Ukraine needs to be liberated from these rats (and they are rodents) before they become a staging ground for Barbarossa II.

    • Replies: @anon
  60. annamaria says:
    @Tedx

    The zionization of Ukraine:
    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/437789-conways-husband-mocks-trump-as-nielsen-leaves-trump
    The Democrats are in arms against any investigation of the profiteering Biden team. So democratic!

  61. annamaria says:
    @Beckow

    They do the mega-crimes around the world because they can.

    The system of laws has been broken, the US Constitution has become quaint (that was a special gift from the treasonous Cheney), and the financiers have become the true Kings & Owners of the US.

  62. annamaria says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “treason” — the key word for the ongoing saga of zionization and subjugation of Ukraine.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  63. @Tedx

    What’s the contradiction? German Nazism claims that Germans are superior to everybody else. Jewish Nazism claims that Jews are superior to everybody else. So, Zionism is Jewish Nazism.

    As to Bandera, he spent a couple of years in German concentration camp, but not with normal inmates, but in the VIP section. Unlike normal inmates, who were never released, Bandera was released in 1944. Bandera founded OUN, which committed numerous crimes, some on German’s orders, some voluntarily (e.g. well-known Volhynia massacre was their own initiative; this crime was committed by OUN with UPA organized by Shukhevych). As Bandera was made a hero of Ukraine along with Shukhevych, one of the commanders of Nachtigall Battalion, a hauptmann of the Schutzmannschaft 201 auxiliary police battalion of Nazi Germany, and one of the organizers of Volhynia massacre, most people mention these two criminals together.

    You are right on one thing: Hitler would have exterminated or at least sterilized Ukrainian Right Sector and others of their ilk. Mostly because German Nazis were efficient, whereas Ukrainian Nazi wannabes are remarkably inept, stupid, and cowardly. So, from Hitler’s perspective, they are guilty of defaming the proud name of Nazis.

  64. EugeneGur says:
    @Commentator Mike

    And if this is the attitude Russians have towards Ukranians, then I can understand Ukranians being nationalistic and hating them in turn.

    Actually, nationalism and hate came first, and the attitude years later. We the Russians tolerated a lot of abuse from the Ukrainians and only lately came to feel nothing but contempt mixed with pity for them. When they started shouting: “Kill the Russians” at that Maidan of theirs in 2014 and soon after actually started the killings – how do you think we should’ve reacted?

    And then we remembered that the Ukrainian volunteers fought against us in Chenchya – something we’ve completely forgotten. Next, we’ve remembered their obnoxious behavior when Ukraine shot down our passenger plane, supposedly by mistake. However, there were strong rumors that it was in reality a contract killing of someone on board executed by the Ukrainian military. Finally, the Ukrainian government officially sided with Georgia in the 2008 war, i.e. against Russia. That was at the time when for some incomprehensible reason we considered Ukraine a friendly country and the Ukrainians a brother nation.

    But even now, compassion and readiness to help is reserved for a small percentage of the Ukrainian citizens that remain sensible. Nevertheless, I believe it’s high time we have the attitude towards the Ukrainians they amply deserve

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Avery
  65. @EugeneGur

    Well, OK. I do tend to favour somewhat the Russian side in this dispute but more for geopolitical reasons than actually preferring Russians to Ukranians. It is unfortunate when such things are stirred up as after all there is nobody closer to Russians than Ukranians, culturally, historically, genetically, linguistically, except perhaps Byelorussians. So like Chinese are supposedly a closer nation?

    Anyway, I’m sure many Chechens themselves who fought the Russians are now active in the pro-Russian Chechen government and institutions, and for all I know many former separatist fighters have now been integrated in the Russian military and security services. I know they had to lose a war and accept defeat for that to happen. And Russians were also guilty of war crimes against the Poles as we all know.

    Anyway, many of the reasons for this hate stem from the Soviet period and we know who was in charge then. And it’s the same people stirring trouble up now preparing groundwork for their future plans, and they’re still in charge in US, EU, and probably to a large extent in Russia too. But if not, they’ll just move back to Russia if need be as that’s where they came from when they moved to the west and Israel, and Putin is on record saying that he’d welcome them, or rather their money and influence, I suppose, but if that would serve the actual real Russian people is another matter. This is it, you people all get worked up with these local and regional hatreds, yet it’s someone else pulling all your strings. Apparently Putin has put them under control but I’m skeptical. I doubt he expropriated all the thieves who plundered the Russian economy and resources during the privatisation phase for a fraction of their value using finances of their relatives in the West, and I’m sure they still have a lot of influence behind the scenes. I somehow doubt the wealth of the nation passed into the hands of ordinary Russian folks. And the same goes for Ukraine.

  66. Miro23 says:
    @One Tribe

    I still think that the elements are the same. Jewish control of the US has a lot of similarities to the way the Mafia controlled Sicily. The basic element was/is fear.

    Cocaine trafficker Pablo Escobar ran the same system in Colombia, and it’s interesting that these systems collapse when the Mafiosi’s themselves start to fear. In Escobar’s case the US set up a covert intelligence operation within Columbia and maneuvered hostile drug gangs against him – chipping away at his organization until he was isolated, ambushed and killed.

    If the US’s 9/11 guys start to feel exposed and scared then the country is on the way to ridding itself of the problem.

  67. anon[350] • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth3

    First of all, the clowns pretending to be (((Nazis))) are just the muscle that the Jews use to grab Ukraine (New Khazaria) away from the Russian citizens of the region.

    There are no Nazis. They are Jewish organized and led clowns.

    sounds about right

    Saker sees a nazi behind every tree

    • Replies: @annamaria
  68. annamaria says:
    @anon

    Actually, they are the holo-biz activists that see “a nazi behind every tree.”

    The zionists and banderites have been swarming on Ukraine. If you do not believe Saker, read about Canadian banderites’ enthusiasm for the resurrection of neo-Nazism in Ukraine. And do not miss the stories about the touching sensitivity that the ADL and Simon Wiesenthal Center have been showing towards the useful thugs of Azov Battalion and towards Kolomojsky, an Israeli citizen and financier of the neo-Nazis.

    It is not for nothing that zionists have been cherishing Chrystia Freeland, the progeny of a Nazi-collaborator that was searched by nazi-hunters for decades. https://vigile.quebec/articles/canada-s-new-foreign-minister-lying-about-family-s-ukrainian-nazi-past

    Chrystia Freeland’s grandfather made a lucrative business in Nazi-occupied Europe selling hatred of Jews, Poles and Russians.
    Chrystia Freeland, Canadian Foreign Minister, claims that her maternal family were the Ukrainian victims of Russian persecution… Freeland is lying.

    Chrystia Freeland has been a close collaborator with the “holo-biz survivor” Nuland-Kagan, a very visible organizer of the neo-Nazi putsch in Kiev.

    Take a note that the ADL and such are totally comfortable with Chrystia the Banderite: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/02/27/a-nazi-skeleton-in-the-family-closet/

    Freeland’s grandfather – rather than being a helpless victim – was given a prestigious job to spread Nazi propaganda, praising Hitler from a publishing house stolen from Jews and given to Ukrainians who shared the values of Nazism.

    Chomiak [the grandpa] moved from Ukraine to Nazi-occupied Poland in order to work for the Third Reich under the command of Governor-General Hans Frank, the man who organized the Holocaust in Poland. Chomiak’s work was directly supervised by Emil Gassner, the head of the press department in the Polish General Government.

    Beyond extolling Hitler and his henchmen, Chomiak rejoiced over Nazi military victories, including the terror bombings of Great Britain. While praising the Third Reich, Krakivski Visti was also under orders by the German authorities to stir up hatred against the Jewish population. Editorial selections from Chomiak’s newspaper can be found in Holocaust museums around the world, such as the one in Los Angeles, California.

    You see, it is OK for the holo-biz activists to criminalize honest research in WWII while admiring the active Banderite and progeny of the known Nazi collaborator.

  69. Avery says:
    @EugeneGur

    {Ukrainian volunteers fought against us in Chenchya}

    I remember that psychopath Sashko Bilyi boasting (while he was alive) of torturing and murdering Russian conscripts in Chechnya.

  70. Avery says:
    @Commentator Mike

    {we have two white nations, Russians and Ukranians, both in serious demographic decline killing each other and planning to continue killing each other some more.}

    WW1 and WW2 killed approximately ~100 million people, overwhelmingly “white” peoples. Russian and Ukrainian dispute is nothing compared to the tragic stupidity of Western Europeans.

    They haven’t learned any lessons either: they keep poking Russia and keep pushing her into a corner. The suicidal idiots are apparently itching for a nuclear war to finish off what remains of Europe.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  71. @Avery

    @Avery

    The suicidal idiots are apparently itching for a nuclear war to finish off what remains of Europe.

    Possibly, but I feel they’re always preparing for somewhere else to move to in case they get kicked out yet again from some of the countries they occupy covertly or overtly, including Israel if it should ever fall to a muslim Arab onslaught, and Eastern Europe seems to be in their sights for such an eventuality. Who know? They may one day discover that most of them are not from Palestine but from Khazaria, and that’s in the Ukraine region, and then they may want to resurrect it, or even a Greater Khazaria to include as far as Georgia. There is no reason to exclude the possibility that if the US goes down they’ll just move their ZOG back to Russia as they did during the Soviet phase. They can draw on a lot of sympathy in Eastern Europe and Russia from the locals who were also victims of Nazi Germany in WW II. And they’ve always got Birobijan waiting for them on the border of China and Siberia, which could one day become strategically important, if they ever think they could profit from its position. Although I think they won’t get far with the Chinese who are bigger Jews than the Jews and there’s far too many of them to contend with. So they’ll just keep on shifting between white people’s countries as it suits them.

  72. @AP

    In 2017 it was virtually a dead heat between Moldavia and the Ukraine; since then the Ukraine has slid down further.

    In the soviet days the Ukraine may not have been the richest republic, but only the 3 Baltic republics (aka “soviet showroom”) were better off per capita. The Ukraine was definitely better off than Russia and Belorussia.

    • Replies: @AP
  73. @Aedib

    Of course, given a choice between today’s Ukrainian madhouse and sane Russia, they’d prefer Russia any day of the week. They are not given that choice now. Besides, if Ukraine returns to its senses, their choice might change. It’s a big “if”, though.

    • Agree: Aedib
  74. Aedib says:

    I’m prone to bet Donbas will enter in the Russian orbit a la Puerto Rico with respect to the USA after Nord Stream II completion. Remember this sentence “Free associated state.”

  75. Arioch says:

    Ukraine failed their chance to be all-inclusive ethnicity-ignoring unitary state (empire).
    Instead they officially adopted their self definition of being “different from Russia”. Maybe they would accept that now, but this train is long gone.

    Ukraine failed their chance to become a federation, like Germany, USA and Russia. Maybe they would eventually accept that was a decent idea, but only after this train would be gone too. It is almost gone.

    The Ukraine would miss their chances to remain as a confederation and would follow USSR steps: dissolution.
    Afterall Ukraine is embodiment of late rotting USSR.

    So, “Free associated state.” ?
    Sounds good.
    When the constellation of independent villages, each of them the mostly truily ukrainian ever, would get to tired to war one another in the name of ukrainian spirit and glory, all less revolutionary less free less statehood-averse nations around them, Russia included, would trade with them on case by case basis.

    For example China and Austria (and Slovenia AFAIR) are long wanting to extend 1520 railway from Kiev right to Vena. It would provide great logistics for EU – China trade. But… Ukraine is in the way. But with Kievan jail of nations dissolved China and Austria would be able to cherry-pick which ukrainelets to sustain along their railways. Russia would cherry-pick whicj ukrainelets to sustain that would either fond place among Russian industries or would be useful as burger states absorbing possible migration waves. Belarus and Romania and Poland would find something to cherry-pick too. Ukrainian archipelago, ik between Belarussian ocean and Rostov mountains. Why not? It does not look a future much worse than what they turned Ukraine into already.

    What about “bad attitude” of Russians – pendulum is pendulum, it swings back, it is normal.
    All the years of ukrainian jokes about ugly, slavish, deplorably, clumsy russians – well, they are put to the test now. Ukrainians should deliver on all their jokes. They should show us how great, efficient and prosperous they are. Until then – it is a swing-back. For many years we laughed when Ukrainians traided jokes about us. Sometimes out of politeness, sometimes sincerely. Today those are Ukrainians who must laugh as we in turn trade jokes about them. If they would instead chose to snowflake themselves, well, whatever then.

    Remember: 5 stages of grief. In 2014 and 2015 we were loosing our voices trying to call Ukrainians to stop ransacking their house. But our desperate pleas only were lol-cows to them. If Russians – those ugly clumsy stupid deplorables – plea to stop something, they gloriously great ones should double down and enjoy how Russians run over walls and ceilings in helpless horror.

    Well, you did not live through those years. We did.
    You were not dragged forcefully through the 5 stages of grief, we were.
    We now earned the last of the stages: acceptance.

    We accepted that Ukrainians are hell-bent on destroying their environment for one-second individual profits, even as small as schadenfraude fits over our pleas. We accepted that as many centuries ago Ukraine reduced itself to Ruin (official historic terms), they are determined to do it again.
    We accepted…. many things.

    Now you call as to loose our painfully earned clarity and to devolve back into the 1st stage so we can br dragged through those stages yet again. We won’t.
    You won’t appreciate our new found anchor in the last stage, we won’t care.

    One Ukrainian coined his worldview very clear: he said they are very human nation, just Russians are not up to be humans in Ukrainian paradigm.
    Well, in our paradigm Ukraine is thing of the past. One of those historical atrocities that were cruel and vast, but that were.
    We laugh at Ukrainians, sure. Why not? Will Ancient Egyptians be really hurt if you trade a joke or two about them? Would Mayan?

    Now, you said that 15 years after Chechen wars Chechens are serving in Russian army and promoting our policy in Syria.
    True. It does not mean that Chechens and Russians love and trust each other like brothers, but they are learning to cohabitate and cooperate. Eventually there would be born generations to whom Berezovsky would be merely an exotic name from some vague past, like Azef today.

    Coming back to Ukraine, assuming Ukraine would once cease being anti-Russian entity and then 15 years after that and quite possibly Ukrainians would be “federates” to Russian army too, like Chechens today.

    But before that, we look at Ukrainian artifacts like Europeans look over Roman roads and we trade jokes about people that were.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  76. @Arioch

    Successive Ukrainian governments ruined everything that could have provided cohesion in that extremely heterogenous would-be country, choosing rabid nationalism as the best smokescreen for their thievery. The last five years of protracted suicide got it beyond the point of no return. In that sense Ukraine is now at least as rotten as the USSR in its last years, likely more so.

    However, it is quite likely that external players would not allow it to disintegrate completely, would work to glue that monster back together. The majority of Russians are now very reluctant to accept Ukraine on any terms, rightly assuming that possible unification with Russia would simply be a hopeless parasite looking for a host to exploit. In Russian psyche Ukrainians are established as traitors, and that perception would last at least a generation. Russians might reluctantly agree to absorb Donbass, because it showed its worth by its fight for freedom, but certainly nothing else. Needless to say, Crimea, which never was and never will be Ukrainian, will remain in Russia.

    Poles are interested in Volhynia and Galicia (they call these areas Eastern Kresy or Little Poland), but they are disgusted by banderites and would prefer that someone else kills these vermin off first. That ain’t gonna happen, nobody is prepared to dirty his hands with that scum. Besides, Russia wouldn’t allow Poland to benefit by the mess in Ukraine it had a hand in creating.

    Hungary and Romania would like to protect their minorities from primeval Ukrainian nationalism, but they are also reluctant either to take in banderites living on the same territories with normal people, or to exterminate the vermin.

    So, all neighbors will force Ukraine to stick together and solve its own problems by itself. This would take at least 30-50 years if Ukraine becomes a loose confederation, and forever if it does not. The neighbors might goad dumbasses to the path that leads to solutions, but they will expect Ukrainians to hang their banderites themselves, won’t take that first necessary step to recovery for them. So, this large Somalia will fester for quite a while yet, then go through a very painful and protracted recovery, but likely won’t be allowed to disintegrate.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  77. Arioch says:
    @AnonFromTN

    > In that sense Ukraine is now at least as rotten as the USSR in its last years, likely more so.

    I started following some Ukrainian MSM in 2012 or maybe 2011. Before that i had 0(zero) interest in Ukraine.

    And i came to the conclusion that Ukraine – with all their shallow anti-soviet fever – are actually Sovok (the derogatory namesake for Soviter citizens/believers). Well, afterall it was Ukraine who gave USSR such great rulers as KHrushcev and Brezhnev, and even Gorbachev was half-Ukrainian. So, if Ukrainians are hell-bent to be not-as-those-Russians – then why would i disagree?

    So, Ukraine was systematically removing all the still living still working parts of USSR but was pestering and nurturing all the sick, rotting, poisonous parts of USSR.

    In that sense Ukraine was “embodiment of rotting USSR” – not of any USSR, buyt exactly of rotting, rotting through 1970-s, through 1980-s, through 1990-s and through 2000-s, worse and worse every year.

    > Russians might reluctantly agree to absorb Donbass

    But the point was not about absorbtion, it was about – Puerto Rico – “deep and comprehensive association”, this time with EAEU instead of EU. And smaller ex-Ukrainian shards can be “associated” at their own distinct rates.

    Absorbtion attempts would be definitely met with huge disgust.
    Russian TV – either for cheap thrills and easy profits, or following ominous orders of The Darkest One – relentlessy showcases russians great samples Ukrainian monstosity, and those monsters reveal themselves not clumsily but with passion and pride.

    But specific transactions with specific regions on benefitting terms are nothing bad.
    Ukrainians are Europeans so they have to like bargaining and negotiating a la Europe.

    > Besides, Russia wouldn’t allow Poland to benefit by the mess in Ukraine it had a hand in creating.

    Claim too vague to be true.
    Poland ALREADY benefits by having ocean of cheap labour both lacking any rights and even wishing to have no rights.
    And if you mean Poland turning Vskhodny Kresy into a colony or even into voevodstvo – then there is little Russia can do to prevent it short of occupying and absorbing Ukraine herself. Which citizens of Russia (do not know about establishment branches) would not like at all.

    > they are also reluctant either to take in banderites living on the same territories with normal people, or to exterminate the vermin.

    agree, but….

    > neighbors will force Ukraine to stick together and solve its own problems by itself

    and that is it. As soon as banderites and EuroUkria will cease being “favorite toys” of anglozyonists – they would be fair prey for everyone.

    And “American recipe to peoples’ friendships: feed never flog often” would kick in.
    Rememeber 2013 and 2014 – how obediently “free Ukrianians” we catching eveyr hint from European lips and how they rushed to “do and outdo” all they could imagine were orders masked as hints.

    Imagine some village near Hungary, and humanitarian aid from Hungary arrives, and some clerk with a tablet jumps off a truck, and starts counting peasants against some checklist.

    Oh, and here is mr. X ! 2015-23-34 being in Khrenburg he found mr. Y and broken his ribs because of ethnic hatred. Or, and here is miss Y! 2016-42-31 in her VK account she blogged thsi and that picture…. Oh, and here is see mrs Z, her now defunct husband in 2014 posted her this this and that he robbed in Donbass (New Post orders No 111, No222 and No3333) and she accepted those gifts….
    Well, i stop counting now. You tried to cheat me. You told me you were impoverished village of democratic Ukrainians but you actually are unrepentant banderites camp with so many nazy scum (no only those three, we know you all!) living happily among you and having all respect from you… That proves you are the same neo-nazi as they are. And so we go away and NEVER again this village would get a bread crumble of aid from Hungary.

    Few examples, and Ukrianians would be agile to catch masters’ hints again. Remember “Olesya”? Nothing largely changed. All other villages in the regions, after few first, would proactively exterminate all banderites, and wannabe banderites, and maybe wannabe banderites, and loosers thought to possibly turn out covert maybe wannabe banderits, etc. As soon as Europeans masters would show that a slightest suspicion and any even once voicing support to banderites would make village blacklisted for all kinds of aid, more so absorbtion – and fir free Ukrainians would start extracting banderites as passionately as they do with commies and Putin agents today.

    So, outermost regions would – just liek you say – “solve banderites problems by themselves” pushing them back to central (read: no one’s) Ukraine further and further, like neighbours would peel that onion and absorb small enough to be absorbable regions at their leizure.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  78. AP says:
    @Plato's Dream

    In 2017 it was virtually a dead heat between Moldavia and the Ukraine; since then the Ukraine has slid down further.

    In 2017 Ukraine’s per capita GDP PPP was about 30% higher than Moldova’s, it was not a dead heat:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=UA-MD

    It was closer in nominal terms only because Ukraine’s currency had collapsed. Russia had a similar problem with the ruble’s decline, causing it to dip below Costa Rica and Argentina in nominal GDP per capita while easily surpassing these countries in GDP PPP per capita.

    In the soviet days the Ukraine may not have been the richest republic, but only the 3 Baltic republics (aka “soviet showroom”) were better off per capita. The Ukraine was definitely better off than Russia and Belorussia.

    No, per capita Ukraine was the poorest of the three. The idea that it was the richest is a stupid myth, because for some “well-wishers” Ukraine’s post 1990 decline just wasn’t enough.

    The good news is that in comparison to 2013 Ukraine went from having 33% of Russia’s per capita GDP PPP to having 34%.

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @Beckow
  79. @Arioch

    I’m just an independent observer and can’t say I know more than what I read about this conflict but it takes two to fight.

    During the hardcore Soviet anti-Nazi phase you had plenty of opportunity to wipe out the banderites and the Neo-Nazis in the Baltics but still they arise even among the young generation. So I don’t think you’ll be able to do that nowadays. I’m not even sure how significant they are other than just being troublemakers. I get the impression they are just marginal and will forever remain marginal compared to mainstream society. Sure they commit some crimes but on their own they’d be unable to change anything. It is those who support and promote them but who are not neo-Nazis at all, like the western liberals and Jewish Zionists, who are your real problem. And obviously Russian attitude to small neighbours, like USA’s to its Latino neighbours, encourages them too.

  80. Arioch says:
    @AP

    GDP per capita is interesting rating, but whether it could be a metric telling about people’s life is questionable.

    For example, all the Moscow region was shuffling to Moscow and back to buy things, starting with food. But RSFSR GDP per capita would not show the difference.

    Let’s say, Ukraine was privileged among other republics.
    It was giving USSR their rulers, after Stalin.
    It had very strong industry justifying building 5 nuclear power plants ( Armenia had one, Baltic states had one in Ignalina, no other republics but Russia and Ukraine had any ).
    It had mineral deposits, and while maybe not as diverse as Siberian ones – but incomparably more accessible.
    It has warm sea and warm climate.
    It had natural resorts of Crimea and of Carpats mountains.

    As soon as USSR and its grip on free trade collapsed – people from Ukraine and Belarus started shuttling their cheap diverse and abundant food to Moscow. On one hand it is because of natural logistics and because megapolis always consumes food rather than produce. OTOH that food was largely unseen before in Moscow. For a while “Ukrainian sector” became a phenomenon in Moscow groceries. Then, however, difference between Minsk and Kiev kicked in. Minsk made it there state policy to capture Russian food market and to make their country a brand of its own. Kiev did not care. Neither state nor vendors. Free unstructured trade of one-man entrepreneurs, like in Adam Smith’s times. Just in few years it was reversed. “Ukrainian” sectors started disappearing and “Belorussian” started to appear instead. In last years Belarus somewhat lost that brand status, but 5-10 years ago it was strong.

    Granted, it is just anecdotal evidence, but it showcases what was “just normal” on Ukrainian and Belorussian food markets was unprecedented even in Moscow, more so provinces of Russia.

    Another example that Ukrainians STILL like to make, is gas heating of villages. Ukrainians claim they are advanced and civilized cause their villages are but all connected to gas pipes. In savage Russia they say only few and even those only in last years. They have a strong point there. Quality of life in winter village having gas heating vs charcoal/wood heating was very different. Perhaps today one can build a house of high-tech insulators with high-tech full-auto wood&charcoal boilers – but in Soviet time there was nothing of a kind. Just standard houses made of wood logs and built around standard bricks-and-stones Russian pech’. Awaking three times a night because of utter cold and going into iced room to fire it, again and again, then waiting for coals to burn through, then going back to be for another 2-3 hours of sleep – is not truly pleasant. It changed in late 1990s, when finally a pipe from regional gas hub less than 5 km away was finally pulled to the village of my grandparents. Suddenly you could sleep all the night through. Well, in Russia it was a miracle of civilization, in Ukraine it was “only animals live without that”.

    Russian GDP per capita is heavily influenced by USSR-global enterprises formally accounting in their headquarters in state capital. But it had little reflection on casual life, like availability of groceries, etc.

  81. Beckow says:
    @AP

    …The good news is that in comparison to 2013 Ukraine went from having 33% of Russia’s per capita GDP PPP to having 34%.

    At that rate by 2100, Ukraine will gloriously reach the Russian living standard – the standard that I hear from the media is really dismal (who knows, I don’t judge).

    Being at 1/3 of one’s large neighbours, and beating the poor Moldova, is nothing to boast about. Comparisons to small states like the Baltics are misleading – Ukraine is 20 times bigger than any of them.

    There is also the issue of each country’s potential: Ukraine has an incredible potential, assets, people, wealth. Its results since 1991 are therefore so much more disappointing. I like humour, but comedy won’t fix this.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Aedib
  82. Aedib says:

    If 6 years were necessary to win a 1% percapita PPP GDP over Russia, then a linear extrapolation indicates that Ukraine will need (100-34)*6= 396 years to catch the Russian percapita PPP GDP.
    If you take nonlinearities, demographics, and so on into account the computation will be more complicated but “interception” will be anyway in the order of centuries.

  83. AP says:
    @Beckow

    Being at 1/3 of one’s large neighbours, and beating the poor Moldova, is nothing to boast about.

    Sure, but this problem began long before Maidan. Actually the guys who ran Ukraine into the ground were mostly Eastern oligarchs from “New Russia.” I suspect they weren’t much of problem for some of the pro-Russian posters here, though.

    After the 2009 crash, in 2009 (Yushchenko’s last year) Ukraine’s GDP PPP per capita was 37% that of Russia. Under Yanukovich it fell further to 33% in 2013. Under Poroshenko it was up to 34% in 2017, probably will be 35% in 2018 because Ukraine’s GDP grew more than Russia’s did in 2018.

  84. Aedib says:
    @Beckow

    Also, considering the demographic collapse, the percapita PPP GDP can be used to cover a shrinking economy, and that’s the Ukraine case:

    http://demographymatters.blogspot.com/2007/07/ukraine-population-and-fertility.html

    So, the percapita measure is used as makeup to hide the fall of the economy-size: I.e., if the index is more or less constant but the denominator of the quotient shrinks, so also the numerator.

    • Replies: @AP
  85. AP says:
    @Aedib

    Fewer people makes a smaller economy, so what? If you have a booming population but the economy is the same in absolute terms everyone is poorer. If you have a declining population but the economy is the same everyone is richer. In Ukraine’s case economy is growing ~3% in absolute terms but ~3.4% in per capita terms.

  86. Let me point out something, There never was independent Ukraine. Ukraine (and also Romania)
    Would still today be a Turkish occupied territory if not be for Russian Czarist army (with some help from Russian Cossacks) that freed Ukraine. And now Ukraine is shoving its gratitude to Russia with cannon fire.

    • Replies: @AP
  87. AP says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Troll or really that ignorant?

    If not for Russia, Ukraine might have been part of Poland. Turks only occupied the extreme southern parts and were in retreat anyways. Which country has a higher standard of living, Russia or Poland? In which country millions of peasants were starved to death by Bolsheviks, Russia or Poland?

    Here is a map of Europe before Ukrainians rebelled and Russians marched in:

  88. You are ignorant. Turks did not built cities. They did not move out native population.
    Turkey only had an army with multiple outposts and they only collected taxes and fruits of the land.
    They did not even built mosques like in Europe. (Spain, Balkans, and Hungary)
    (Basically only permanent robbery.)

  89. And how many years Polish Lithuanian empire lasted before or after with Hungarian help attacked Russia . (You do not even need all fingers on your hand to count it.)

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All The Saker Comments via RSS
PastClassics
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?