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Throughout the world there is great relief and optimism about the nuclear deal reached in Vienna between Iran and the P5+1 nations, the five veto-holding members of the U.N. Security Council and Germany. Most of the world apparently shares the assessment of the U.S. Arms Control Association that “the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action establishes a strong and effective formula for blocking all of the pathways by which Iran could acquire material for nuclear weapons for more than a generation and a verification system to promptly detect and deter possible efforts by Iran to covertly pursue nuclear weapons that will last indefinitely.”

There are, however, striking exceptions to the general enthusiasm: the United States and its closest regional allies, Israel and Saudi Arabia. One consequence of this is that U.S. corporations, much to their chagrin, are prevented from flocking to Tehran along with their European counterparts. Prominent sectors of U.S. power and opinion share the stand of the two regional allies and so are in a state of virtual hysteria over “the Iranian threat.” Sober commentary in the United States, pretty much across the spectrum, declares that country to be “the gravest threat to world peace.” Even supporters of the agreement here are wary, given the exceptional gravity of that threat. After all, how can we trust the Iranians with their terrible record of aggression, violence, disruption, and deceit?

Opposition within the political class is so strong that public opinion has shifted quickly from significant support for the deal to an even split. Republicans are almost unanimously opposed to the agreement. The current Republican primaries illustrate the proclaimed reasons. Senator Ted Cruz, considered one of the intellectuals among the crowded field of presidential candidates, warns that Iran may still be able to produce nuclear weapons and could someday use one to set off an Electro Magnetic Pulse that “would take down the electrical grid of the entire eastern seaboard” of the United States, killing “tens of millions of Americans.”

The two most likely winners, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, are battling over whether to bomb Iran immediately after being elected or after the first Cabinet meeting. The one candidate with some foreign policy experience, Lindsey Graham, describes the deal as “a death sentence for the state of Israel,” which will certainly come as a surprise to Israeli intelligence and strategic analysts — and which Graham knows to be utter nonsense, raising immediate questions about actual motives.

Keep in mind that the Republicans long ago abandoned the pretense of functioning as a normal congressional party. They have, as respected conservative political commentator Norman Ornstein of the right-wing American Enterprise Institute observed, become a “radical insurgency” that scarcely seeks to participate in normal congressional politics.

Since the days of President Ronald Reagan, the party leadership has plunged so far into the pockets of the very rich and the corporate sector that they can attract votes only by mobilizing parts of the population that have not previously been an organized political force. Among them are extremist evangelical Christians, now probably a majority of Republican voters; remnants of the former slave-holding states; nativists who are terrified that “they” are taking our white Christian Anglo-Saxon country away from us; and others who turn the Republican primaries into spectacles remote from the mainstream of modern society — though not from the mainstream of the most powerful country in world history.

The departure from global standards, however, goes far beyond the bounds of the Republican radical insurgency. Across the spectrum, there is, for instance, general agreement with the “pragmatic” conclusion of General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that the Vienna deal does not “prevent the United States from striking Iranian facilities if officials decide that it is cheating on the agreement,” even though a unilateral military strike is “far less likely” if Iran behaves.

Former Clinton and Obama Middle East negotiator Dennis Ross typically recommends that “Iran must have no doubts that if we see it moving towards a weapon, that would trigger the use of force” even after the termination of the deal, when Iran is theoretically free to do what it wants. In fact, the existence of a termination point 15 years hence is, he adds, “the greatest single problem with the agreement.” He also suggests that the U.S. provide Israel with specially outfitted B-52 bombers and bunker-busting bombs to protect itself before that terrifying date arrives.

“The Greatest Threat”

Opponents of the nuclear deal charge that it does not go far enough. Some supporters agree, holding that “if the Vienna deal is to mean anything, the whole of the Middle East must rid itself of weapons of mass destruction.” The author of those words, Iran’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Javad Zarif, added that “Iran, in its national capacity and as current chairman of the Non-Aligned Movement [the governments of the large majority of the world’s population], is prepared to work with the international community to achieve these goals, knowing full well that, along the way, it will probably run into many hurdles raised by the skeptics of peace and diplomacy.” Iran has signed “a historic nuclear deal,” he continues, and now it is the turn of Israel, “the holdout.”

Israel, of course, is one of the three nuclear powers, along with India and Pakistan, whose weapons programs have been abetted by the United States and that refuse to sign the Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT).

Zarif was referring to the regular five-year NPT review conference, which ended in failure in April when the U.S. (joined by Canada and Great Britain) once again blocked efforts to move toward a weapons-of-mass-destruction-free zone in the Middle East. Such efforts have been led by Egypt and other Arab states for 20 years. As Jayantha Dhanapala and Sergio Duarte, leading figures in the promotion of such efforts at the NPT and other U.N. agencies,observe in “Is There a Future for the NPT?,” an article in the journal of the Arms Control Association: “The successful adoption in 1995 of the resolution on the establishment of a zone free of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the Middle East was the main element of a package that permitted the indefinite extension of the NPT.” The NPT, in turn, is the most important arms control treaty of all. If it were adhered to, it could end the scourge of nuclear weapons.

Repeatedly, implementation of the resolution has been blocked by the U.S., most recently by President Obama in 2010 and again in 2015, as Dhanapala and Duarte point out, “on behalf of a state that is not a party to the NPT and is widely believed to be the only one in the region possessing nuclear weapons” — a polite and understated reference to Israel. This failure, they hope, “will not be the coup de grâce to the two longstanding NPT objectives of accelerated progress on nuclear disarmament and establishing a Middle Eastern WMD-free zone.”

A nuclear-weapons-free Middle East would be a straightforward way to address whatever threat Iran allegedly poses, but a great deal more is at stake in Washington’s continuing sabotage of the effort in order to protect its Israeli client. After all, this is not the only case in which opportunities to end the alleged Iranian threat have been undermined by Washington, raising further questions about just what is actually at stake.

In considering this matter, it is instructive to examine both the unspoken assumptions in the situation and the questions that are rarely asked. Let us consider a few of these assumptions, beginning with the most serious: that Iran is the gravest threat to world peace.

In the U.S., it is a virtual cliché among high officials and commentators that Iran wins that grim prize. There is also a world outside the U.S. and although its views are not reported in the mainstream here, perhaps they are of some interest. According to the leading western polling agencies (WIN/Gallup International), the prize for “greatest threat” is won by the United States. The rest of the world regards it as the gravest threat to world peace by a large margin. In second place, far below, is Pakistan, its ranking probably inflated by the Indian vote. Iran is ranked below those two, along with China, Israel, North Korea, and Afghanistan.

“The World’s Leading Supporter of Terrorism”

Turning to the next obvious question, what in fact is the Iranian threat? Why, for example, are Israel and Saudi Arabia trembling in fear over that country? Whatever the threat is, it can hardly be military. Years ago, U.S. intelligence informed Congress that Iran has very low military expenditures by the standards of the region and that its strategic doctrines are defensive — designed, that is, to deter aggression. The U.S. intelligence community has also reported that it has no evidence Iran is pursuing an actual nuclear weapons program and that “Iran’s nuclear program and its willingness to keep open the possibility of developing nuclear weapons is a central part of its deterrent strategy.”

The authoritative SIPRI review of global armaments ranks the U.S., as usual, way in the lead in military expenditures. China comes in second with about one-third of U.S. expenditures. Far below are Russia and Saudi Arabia, which are nonetheless well above any western European state. Iran is scarcely mentioned. Full details are provided in an April report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), which finds “a conclusive case that the Arab Gulf states have… an overwhelming advantage of Iran in both military spending and access to modern arms.”

Iran’s military spending, for instance, is a fraction of Saudi Arabia’s and far below even the spending of the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Altogether, the Gulf Cooperation Council states — Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE — outspend Iran on arms by a factor of eight, an imbalance that goes back decades. The CSIS report adds: “The Arab Gulf states have acquired and are acquiring some of the most advanced and effective weapons in the world [while] Iran has essentially been forced to live in the past, often relying on systems originally delivered at the time of the Shah.” In other words, they are virtually obsolete. When it comes to Israel, of course, the imbalance is even greater. Possessing the most advanced U.S. weaponry and a virtual offshore military base for the global superpower, it also has a huge stock of nuclear weapons.

To be sure, Israel faces the “existential threat” of Iranian pronouncements: Supreme Leader Khamenei and former president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad famously threatened it with destruction. Except that they didn’t — and if they had, it would be of little moment. Ahmadinejad, for instance, predicted that “under God’s grace [the Zionist regime] will be wiped off the map.” In other words, he hoped that regime change would someday take place. Even that falls far short of the direct calls in both Washington and Tel Aviv for regime change in Iran, not to speak of the actions taken to implement regime change. These, of course, go back to the actual “regime change” of 1953, when the U.S. and Britain organized a military coup to overthrow Iran’s parliamentary government and install the dictatorship of the Shah, who proceeded to amass one of the worst human rights records on the planet.

These crimes were certainly known to readers of the reports of Amnesty International and other human rights organizations, but not to readers of the U.S. press, which has devoted plenty of space to Iranian human rights violations — but only since 1979 when the Shah’s regime was overthrown. (To check the facts on this, read The U.S. Press and Iran, a carefully documented study by Mansour Farhang and William Dorman.)

None of this is a departure from the norm. The United States, as is well known, holds the world championship title in regime change and Israel is no laggard either. The most destructive of its invasions of Lebanon in 1982 was explicitly aimed at regime change, as well as at securing its hold on the occupied territories. The pretexts offered were thin indeed and collapsed at once. That, too, is not unusual and pretty much independent of the nature of the society — from the laments in the Declaration of Independence about the “merciless Indian savages” to Hitler’s defense of Germany from the “wild terror” of the Poles.

No serious analyst believes that Iran would ever use, or even threaten to use, a nuclear weapon if it had one, and so face instant destruction. There is, however, real concern that a nuclear weapon might fall into jihadi hands — not thanks to Iran, but via U.S. ally Pakistan. In the journal of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, two leading Pakistani nuclear scientists, Pervez Hoodbhoy and Zia Mian, write that increasing fears of “militants seizing nuclear weapons or materials and unleashing nuclear terrorism [have led to]… the creation of a dedicated force of over 20,000 troops to guard nuclear facilities. There is no reason to assume, however, that this force would be immune to the problems associated with the units guarding regular military facilities,” which have frequently suffered attacks with “insider help.” In brief, the problem is real, just displaced to Iran thanks to fantasies concocted for other reasons.

Other concerns about the Iranian threat include its role as “the world’s leading supporter of terrorism,” which primarily refers to its support for Hezbollah and Hamas. Both of those movements emerged in resistance to U.S.-backed Israeli violence and aggression, which vastly exceeds anything attributed to these villains, let alone the normal practice of the hegemonic power whose global drone assassination campaign alone dominates (and helps to foster) international terrorism.

Those two villainous Iranian clients also share the crime of winning the popular vote in the only free elections in the Arab world. Hezbollah is guilty of the even more heinous crime of compelling Israel to withdraw from its occupation of southern Lebanon, which took place in violation of U.N. Security Council orders dating back decades and involved an illegal regime of terror and sometimes extreme violence. Whatever one thinks of Hezbollah, Hamas, or other beneficiaries of Iranian support, Iran hardly ranks high in support of terror worldwide.

“Fueling Instability”

Another concern, voiced at the U.N. by U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power, is the “instability that Iran fuels beyond its nuclear program.” The U.S. will continue to scrutinize this misbehavior, she declared. In that, she echoed the assurance Defense Secretary Ashton Carter offered while standing on Israel’s northern border that “we will continue to help Israel counter Iran’s malign influence” in supporting Hezbollah, and that the U.S. reserves the right to use military force against Iran as it deems appropriate.

The way Iran “fuels instability” can be seen particularly dramatically in Iraq where, among other crimes, it alone at once came to the aid of Kurds defending themselves from the invasion of Islamic State militants, even as it is building a $2.5 billion power plant in the southern port city of Basra to try to bring electrical power back to the level reached before the 2003 invasion. Ambassador Power’s usage is, however, standard: Thanks to that invasion, hundreds of thousands were killed and millions of refugees generated, barbarous acts of torture were committed — Iraqis have compared the destruction to the Mongol invasion of the thirteenth century — leaving Iraq the unhappiest country in the world according to WIN/Gallup polls. Meanwhile, sectarian conflict was ignited, tearing the region to shreds and laying the basis for the creation of the monstrosity that is ISIS. And all of that is called “stabilization.”

Only Iran’s shameful actions, however, “fuel instability.” The standard usage sometimes reaches levels that are almost surreal, as when liberal commentator James Chace, former editor of Foreign Affairs, explained that the U.S. sought to “destabilize a freely elected Marxist government in Chile” because “we were determined to seek stability” under the Pinochet dictatorship.

Others are outraged that Washington should negotiate at all with a “contemptible” regime like Iran’s with its horrifying human rights record and urge instead that we pursue “an American-sponsored alliance between Israel and the Sunni states.” So writes Leon Wieseltier, contributing editor to the venerable liberal journal the Atlantic, who can barely conceal his visceral hatred for all things Iranian. With a straight face, this respected liberal intellectual recommends that Saudi Arabia, which makes Iran look like a virtual paradise, and Israel, with its vicious crimes in Gaza and elsewhere, should ally to teach that country good behavior. Perhaps the recommendation is not entirely unreasonable when we consider the human rights records of the regimes the U.S. has imposed and supported throughout the world.

Though the Iranian government is no doubt a threat to its own people, it regrettably breaks no records in this regard, not descending to the level of favored U.S. allies. That, however, cannot be the concern of Washington, and surely not Tel Aviv or Riyadh.

It might also be useful to recall — surely Iranians do — that not a day has passed since 1953 in which the U.S. was not harming Iranians. After all, as soon as they overthrew the hated U.S.-imposed regime of the Shah in 1979, Washington put its support behind Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, who would, in 1980, launch a murderous assault on their country. President Reagan went so far as to deny Saddam’s major crime, his chemical warfare assault on Iraq’s Kurdish population, which he blamed on Iran instead. When Saddam was tried for crimes under U.S. auspices, that horrendous crime, as well as others in which the U.S. was complicit, was carefully excluded from the charges, which were restricted to one of his minor crimes, the murder of 148 Shi’ites in 1982, a footnote to his gruesome record.

Saddam was such a valued friend of Washington that he was even granted a privilege otherwise accorded only to Israel. In 1987, his forces were allowed to attack a U.S. naval vessel, the USS Stark, with impunity, killing 37 crewmen. (Israel had acted similarly in its 1967 attack on the USS Liberty.) Iran pretty much conceded defeat shortly after, when the U.S. launched Operation Praying Mantis against Iranian ships and oil platforms in Iranian territorial waters. That operation culminated when the USS Vincennes, under no credible threat, shot down an Iranian civilian airliner in Iranian airspace, with 290 killed — and the subsequent granting of a Legion of Merit award to the commander of the Vincennes for “exceptionally meritorious conduct” and for maintaining a “calm and professional atmosphere” during the period when the attack on the airliner took place. Comments philosopher Thill Raghu, “We can only stand in awe of such display of American exceptionalism!”

After the war ended, the U.S. continued to support Saddam Hussein, Iran’s primary enemy. President George H.W. Bush even invited Iraqi nuclear engineers to the U.S. for advanced training in weapons production, an extremely serious threat to Iran. Sanctions against that country were intensified, including against foreign firms dealing with it, and actions were initiated to bar it from the international financial system.

In recent years the hostility has extended to sabotage, the murder of nuclear scientists (presumably by Israel), and cyberwar, openly proclaimed with pride. The Pentagon regards cyberwar as an act of war, justifying a military response, as does NATO, which affirmed in September 2014 that cyber attacks may trigger the collective defense obligations of the NATO powers — when we are the target that is, not the perpetrators.

“The Prime Rogue State”

It is only fair to add that there have been breaks in this pattern. President George W. Bush, for example, offered several significant gifts to Iran by destroying its major enemies, Saddam Hussein and the Taliban. He even placed Iran’s Iraqi enemy under its influence after the U.S. defeat, which was so severe that Washington had to abandon its officially declared goals of establishing permanent military bases (“enduring camps”) and ensuring that U.S. corporations would have privileged access to Iraq’s vast oil resources.

Do Iranian leaders intend to develop nuclear weapons today? We can decide for ourselves how credible their denials are, but that they had such intentions in the past is beyond question. After all, it was asserted openly on the highest authority and foreign journalists were informed that Iran would develop nuclear weapons “certainly, and sooner than one thinks.” The father of Iran’s nuclear energy program and former head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization was confident that the leadership’s plan “was to build a nuclear bomb.” The CIA also reported that it had “no doubt” Iran would develop nuclear weapons if neighboring countries did (as they have).

All of this was, of course, under the Shah, the “highest authority” just quoted and at a time when top U.S. officials — Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Henry Kissinger, among others — were urging him to proceed with his nuclear programs and pressuring universities to accommodate these efforts. Under such pressures, my own university, MIT, made a deal with the Shah to admit Iranian students to the nuclear engineering program in return for grants he offered and over the strong objections of the student body, but with comparably strong faculty support (in a meeting that older faculty will doubtless remember well).

Asked later why he supported such programs under the Shah but opposed them more recently, Kissinger responded honestly that Iran was an ally then.

Putting aside absurdities, what is the real threat of Iran that inspires such fear and fury? A natural place to turn for an answer is, again, U.S. intelligence. Recall its analysis that Iran poses no military threat, that its strategic doctrines are defensive, and that its nuclear programs (with no effort to produce bombs, as far as can be determined) are “a central part of its deterrent strategy.”

Who, then, would be concerned by an Iranian deterrent? The answer is plain: the rogue states that rampage in the region and do not want to tolerate any impediment to their reliance on aggression and violence. In the lead in this regard are the U.S. and Israel, with Saudi Arabia trying its best to join the club with its invasion of Bahrain (to support the crushing of a reform movement there) and now its murderous assault on Yemen, accelerating a growing humanitarian catastrophe in that country.

For the United States, the characterization is familiar. Fifteen years ago, the prominent political analyst Samuel Huntington, professor of the science of government at Harvard, warned in the establishment journal Foreign Affairsthat for much of the world the U.S. was “becoming the rogue superpower… the single greatest external threat to their societies.” Shortly after, his words were echoed by Robert Jervis, the president of the American Political Science Association: “In the eyes of much of the world, in fact, the prime rogue state today is the United States.” As we have seen, global opinion supports this judgment by a substantial margin.

Furthermore, the mantle is worn with pride. That is the clear meaning of the insistence of the political class that the U.S. reserves the right to resort to force if it unilaterally determines that Iran is violating some commitment. This policy is of long standing, especially for liberal Democrats, and by no means restricted to Iran. The Clinton Doctrine, for instance, confirmed that the U.S. was entitled to resort to the “unilateral use of military power” even to ensure “uninhibited access to key markets, energy supplies, and strategic resources,” let alone alleged “security” or “humanitarian” concerns. Adherence to various versions of this doctrine has been well confirmed in practice, as need hardly be discussed among people willing to look at the facts of current history.

These are among the critical matters that should be the focus of attention in analyzing the nuclear deal at Vienna, whether it stands or is sabotaged by Congress, as it may well be.

Noam Chomsky is institute professor emeritus in the Department of Linguistics and Philosophy at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. ATomDispatch regular, among his recent books are Hegemony or Survival , Failed States , Power Systems , Hopes and Prospects , and Masters of Mankind . Haymarket Books recently reissued twelve of his classic books in new editions. His website is www.chomsky.info.

(Republished from TomDispatch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Iran 
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  1. Tom_R says:

    CHOMSKY WON’T NAME THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM—THE JEWISH LOBBY.

    Thanks for the interesting article, Sir. You do an excellent job going into details, and you have made some excellent points in support of the Iran deal, which I agree with.

    But, with all due respect, your article fails to mention the elephant in the room behind all this—the Jewish lobby. And some of your statements are humorous.

    For example, your claim that the Republican party is controlled by a corporate sector including “nativists who are terrified that “they” are taking our white Christian Anglo-Saxon country away from us.”

    So please tell us which is the biggest “nativist lobby” in the USA and how many millions it has contributed and its rank in contributions to the Republicans and how many Republican candidates want to ban immigration and how many “nativists” are on the Supreme Court and have voted in favor of banning immigration?

    Well, you won’t tell, because there isn’t any significant lobby like that.

    And secondly, the most “nativist” nation on earth is Israel, which has declared itself a “Jewish” state, and is building the world’s biggest prison to keep black Africans out, and sends them to Sweden and imprisons and kills Gazans who enter illegally.

    And what mainstream newspaper or TV do the nativists own and operate that is calling for banning non-white immigration, something Israel has done? On the contrary, the vast majority of the media is Jewish owned and supports the alien invasion.

    And it is amazing you did not mention the people who REALLY own and operate the Republican party—the Jewish lobbyists.

    50% of the campaign contributions to the Democrats and 40% of the Republicans come from the Jewish Oligarchs, who own and operate both political parties, and even the Judiciary.

    What Chomsky won’t tell you is that there are 3 Judaists on the Supreme Court, fabricating pro-alien and pro-homo laws. And Zero “nativists.”

    But Ms. Weir, a Jewish lady herself, is more honest and has exposed Chomsky’s errors in this article called: “Noam Chomsky and the pro-Israel lobby: Fourteen erroneous theses” at:

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/pg-fourteen.html

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @silviosilver
  2. AndrewR [AKA "Aiden"] says:

    That’s right, Noam. Tell everyone how awful anyone is who wants the US to remain “white Christian Anglo-Saxon.” G-d forbid people desire to maintain the ethnic character of their nation. Why… it’s damn near anuddah shoah!

    • Replies: @psuedo
  3. RobinG says:
    @Tom_R

    Well, actually I believe Ms. Weir is not Jewish. But she is a valiant, heroic American who is currently being defamed by several Jewish-controlled supposedly pro-Palestinian activist organizations. Her crime is educating any and all Americans about the malign influence of the Israel Lobby in the US, which, as you point out, Chomsky refuses to do.

    Support Alison Weir. Buy her book and share it with friends. Invite her to speak to a group. JSIL (the Jewish State in the Levant) has exposed its disregard for US interests -and humanity in general- by opposing diplomacy with Iran. This can be a real “teachable moment”.

    • Replies: @Tom_R
  4. What a long-winded treatise of meandering nothingness. I could barely finish reading this dull article. No wonder the comments are so few. What exactly was the great professor saying? Anything new? This is all Chomsky could muster? The great Noam Chomsky is overrated now and he always has been overrated.

    I remember plowing though one of his books (The Fateful Triangle) about Israel/Palestine/America and he was very boring and long-winded even then. And none of his conclusions were particularly pointed or insightful. It’s the same old story. Discuss Israel’s place in American life as if it’s just a normal country, not uniquely positioned in Washington and American culture. Sure. Ha! If only it was true.

    Israel is by far the biggest threat in the world because it controls so much of everything Washington does. And Israel is on an expansionistic killing spree, with America as its attack dog. What about Israel’s nukes, Noam?

    Even Trump and Bernie and Rand and Hillary are all in lock-step when it comes to precious little Israel. The Zionist entity is so powerful that its extraordinary influence cannot even be critically discussed in polite company. Chomsky is part of the problem. Even Trump is a stooge for Israel.

    Noam’s been anointed as another guardian of political discourse by the liberal Jewish establishment. How boring. What’s he doing here at Unz?

    Basically, Chomsky’s just another Jewish gatekeeper. They’re everywhere. Chomsky’s here and there to make sure that no one puts too much blame on Israel. Some criticism is OK. But keep it under control. We’re still allies, right? And please don’t mention the countless lobbies, Big Media (TV, film, books), the academics, Wall St., Jewish-dominated NGOs, or the Zionist billionaires that keep the Lobby rolling over anything that gets in its way. It’s time for Prof. Chomsky to simply fade away.

    • Replies: @Da-Mith
  5. Deduction says:

    Generally an excellent article, but Mr Chomsky, your age is showing.

    Half of those dates are so far past as to be unknown not because we are hiding them but because they are ancient history.

    As for your claim that nativists hold any power in the US – I want what you’ve been smoking!

    It’s pointless to even try to rebutt it, you’re so wrong. You might as well claim that Zimbabwe is still ruled by Ian Smith.

    The Palestinians will be around long after after the founding stock of the United States is gone. Surely that’s a tragedy which you can recognise, write about and hope to help stop?

    You have personally benefited from their largesse quite a lot, don’t you owe them?

    It takes centuries to make a good, stable, peaceful country and society and lots of blood, sweat and tears. You have had a free ride. Time to repay your debt.

    Speak out!

  6. psuedo says:
    @AndrewR

    look closely at American history. no matter how far back you go you’ll not find a white Xian anglo-saxon nation. instead, you’ll find dutchmen, swedes, frenchmen, spaniards, scotsmen, germans, indians, jews, and negroes worshipping a host of deities major and minor in all sorts of ways.

  7. Have we seen this pattern before, this pattern that Chomsky outlined of lying, hyperbolizing, demonizing a target state in order to convince the masses that it is evil and must be destroyed?

    Chomsky provided a hint:

    “. . .from the laments in the Declaration of Independence about the “merciless Indian savages” to Hitler’s defense of Germany from the “wild terror” of the Poles.”

    As to the first part, when a zionist puts pen to paper he absolutely must repeat that Israel’s rationale for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians resides in the good ‘ole USA. Poke-poke-poking at America’s original sins somehow, in the ziobrain, legitimizes Israel’s commission of the same sin.

    Regarding the “wild terror” that Poles wreaked on Germans — [see follow-up comment]
    A normal person would ask, Why in the world was that thought shoe-horned into the narrative?

    But we’re dealing with zionists here, and we have come to recognize that zionists have a compulsion to reinforce to the six-hundred-millionth degree that Germany is evil and must be destroyed.

    In other words, Chomsky is reminding readers that zionists were successful in lying, hyperbolizing, and demonizing Germany to the point that the US masses were dragged (reluctantly) into a war that destroyed Germany and decimated the highly skilled German people. The USA grabbed the brass ring after that treacherous debacle, and Israelis and Jews profited from Germany’s destruction and have been enjoying revenue streams from that Carthaginian — or Morgenthauian — event ever since.

    Chomsky narrated how the same process of lies, demonization, etc. is being deployed against Iran, by the same parties — zionists and Jews with their compliant US bff; with the same intentions — the destruction of Iranian culture, the decimation of its talented people and the “urban renewal” of its built infrastructure; to reinforce the US dollar and to enhance the revenue streams to Israel, wealthy financiers and arms merchants.

    ——–>

    • Replies: @Rurik
  8. Sean says:

    The post mentions white Christian Anglo-Saxons, and corporate interests, but it very accurately says both these groups are powerless to influence the US foreign policy and prevent war with Iran.

    In short the US group that is identified ethnically is totally helpless, while the US group that is not so identified is unimaginably powerful.

  9. KA says:


    “It has become clear to me that the world is united behind this agreement with the exception of the government of Israel,” McCaskill said Thursday morning.

    —-

    “Secure America Now, a hawkish national security group backed by Mike Huckabee and John Bolton, has organized nearly 3,000 calls to Bennet’s office and about 2,700 to Cardin’s over the past week in opposition to the deal. McCaskill received 1,500 calls in opposition. Secure America Now is also targeting undecided Sens. Cory Booker of New Jersey and Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut as potential “no” votes.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/claire-mccaskill-supports-iran-deal-121557.html#ixzz3jSCy9B4V

    Churchill, Iran & ‘Duck Dynasty’: Mike Huckabee brings his presidential bid to the Israeli settlements – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/huckabees-dynasty-churchill#sthash.LaFELloU.dpuf

    Israel is against the rest of the world . 5 th columnists are inside the gate and a threat to US.
    Bolton and Huckabee are the mercaniries on the look out for renewal of the hiring contracts.

    • Replies: @boogerbently
  10. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Chomsky would have us all believe that building seven fell because of office fires.

    he considers the truth of what happened on that day inconvenient

    he’d rather we all believe the official lies because that’d be ‘good for the Jews’

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  11. @Rurik

    building seven fell because of office fires.

    Must have been highly flammable paper.
    Or something highly incendiary was written on it.

    What if the incendiary documents Richard Samuel “Sandy” Berger stuffed in his pants and socks and removed from the US National Archives had gone up in flames like the office fires in #7?
    ooh ouch. toasted family jewels ….

    Sandy Berger Hid Stolen Archive Documents
    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/sandy_berger_hid_stolen_archive_documents/

    Clintons Refuse to Release Sandy Berger’s Stolen Documents
    http://americaswatchtower.com/2008/05/05/the-clintons-refuse-to-release-sandy-bergers-stolen-documents/
    He was hiding documents that showed a clear link between Bill Clinton’s failure to take terrorism seriously and the attacks of September 11th.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022001344.html
    “In a chandeliered room at the Justice Department, the longtime head of the counterespionage section, the chief of the public integrity unit, a deputy assistant attorney general, some trial lawyers and a few FBI agents all looked down at their pant legs and socks.

    While waving his own leg in the air in illustration, Paul Brachfeld, inspector general of the National Archives and Records Administration, asked the group rhetorically if “something white” could be easily mistaken if it was wrapped around their legs, beneath their pant legs.

    Under debate during the Nov. 23, 2004, meeting was Brachfeld’s contention that President Clinton’s former national security adviser Samuel R. “Sandy” Berger could have stolen original, uncatalogued, highly classified terrorism documents 14 months earlier by wrapping them around his socks and beneath his pants, as National Archives staff member John Laster reported witnessing.

    Brachfeld said he was worried that during four visits in 2002 and 2003, Berger had the opportunity to remove more than the five documents he admitted taking. Brachfeld wanted the Justice Department to notify officials of the 9/11 Commission that Berger’s actions — in combination with a bungled Archives response — might have obstructed the commission’s review of Clinton’s terrorism policies.”

  12. Rurik says:

    Clinton’s failure to take terrorism seriously and the attacks of September 11th.

    911 didn’t happen because of Bill Clinton’s failure to take terrorism seriously

    building seven fell because it was wired for a controlled demolition

    Osama Bin Laden didn’t wire it

    and Chomsky is protecting the ones who did

  13. Deduction says:

    Mr Chomsky, welcome to Unz.com’s foreign policy articles’ comment section.

    There are commenters here that I can only explain by saying that they are paid extremist Zionists shills here to discredit any opposition by association.

    Or they are just paranoid schizophrenics…

    Anyone can join them through following three simple rules.

    1. If it’s bad, Israel did it.

    2. If it’s good, Israel is stopping it.

    3. If there’s any evidence to the contrary – it’s a trick.

    A general rule that I follow, which I learned from growing up with a borderline personality disorder relation, if someone thinks all of something or nothing of another then they are pointless to reason with.

    If someone says Israel only ever does good and can think of nothing bad that the country has ever done, or if the converse is true, you are talking to a person so lost in their own emotional turbulence as to be entirely locked out from reality.

    • Replies: @alexander
  14. joe webb says:

    Chomp on Chomsky, O zio piglet and dissembler of anti-zionism, the elder of zionism par putrefaction. What a zio Esther, tricking the peace and love crowd into orgasms of righteousness and revolution.

    Fateful Triangle at about page 30 has the Elder endorsing Zion Rising by the dialectics of Jewish lawyering …1948.

    As the line in The Three Hundred ( Spartans at Thermopylie was it? ) the traitor is cursed…may you live forever.

    ‘Course…the jew never feels remorse, he fights for His People. And he/they are correct. The Jew gets Whites to fight against their people.

    Joe Webb

  15. Chomsky is protecting the ones who did

    so was Sandy Berger, and the Clintons.

  16. Rurik says:

    1. If it’s bad, Israel did it.

    no one says Israel is behind everything bad. No one.

    What people are saying is that Israel was behind 911 and the subsequent wars in the Middle East to benefit Israel

    also Israel is behind the appalling treatment of the Palestinians

    What us Americans are complaining about is that it isn’t in our interest to genocide the Palestinians or to get so many of our young people killed or maimed slaughtering people in Iraq and Libya and Syria and destroying those countries in these illegal and immoral wars of aggression to benefit Israel.

    It diminishes our moral character as a nation and a people and makes us universally and understandably hated the world over

    Is it paranoid schizophrenia for us Americans to resent that fact and the influence that Zionists like Sheldon Adelson and Netanyahu (too many others) have over our foreign policy?

    If Chomsky was serious about preventing war with Iran and edifying us with his intellect, he’d call out the people obviously responsible for 911. They are the very same people pushing for an American war on Iran. Duh

  17. Tom_R says:
    @RobinG

    JUDAISTS THREATEN TO EX-COMMUNICATE ALLISON WEIR, FOR SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF PALESTINIANS.

    I am sorry if I made an error in stating that Ms. Allison Weir is Jewish, if, in fact, she is not. I was led to believe she was Jewish by the following article, as the Judaists are trying to “ex-communicate” her here:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42179.htm

    or at:

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2015/6/18/jvp-alison-weir-and-the-hatred-of-the-white

    If the Judaists are trying to ex-communicate non-Jewish people, their insanity must have gotten worse.

  18. @KA

    Bottom line. Regardless of all the other articles in the “agreement”.
    Iran will self regulate.
    THAT alone is reason to cancel the plan.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @KA
  19. The so called “Iran deal” is NOT in the interest of Iran but is in the interest of US and Israel very much. Netanyahu and other Zionist Jew murderers know that very well. However, this deal is not going to bomb Iran tomorrow and kept the right of enrichment about 3.5 % for Iran. The neocon want to bomb Iran beyond recognition since they are pursuing Oded Yinon Strategy where has the partition of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Egypt, Sudan, Morocco, Pakistan, Somalia, where majority of these countries have been treated by the Zionist Jew murderers through their puppets, especially Obama, to create puppet state such as ‘kurdistan’, ‘baluchistan’, ‘Azaris’, Arab sunnies, Berber for Israel, and so on and so forth, yet to be completed.
    This piece most likely has been written by a request either from the white house or Brzezinski, from Noam Chomsky. The “Iran deal” is designed to do “regime change” by strengthening the hand of the fifth columnists, where Hassan Rouhani, Javad Zarif and corrupt businessman, Rafsanjani, and their extension in Washington were Chomsky has close relationship, NIAC. NIAC is run by a CIA Asset, Trita Parsi , and close relationship with J street and Javad Zarif, where majority of them are US CITIZENS. NIAC supports the fifth column ‘green wave’ so CIA, where in 2009 tried to overthrow the government of Iran through color revolution but failed. Chomsky also repeated the “election fraud” HOAX to support NIAC and Iranian CIA assets and traitors who have received millions of dollars from US government, such as Akbar Ganji received more than half a million dollars, $500000 from CATO Institute, Hamid Dabashi, Azar Nafisi, NED agent where McCain, bomb Iran, gave her an award for her treason against Iranian people.
    Noam Chomsky participated in NIAC conference in 2012 sitting next to traitors and agents of intelligence services of the West including CIA and Mossad, Mazia Bahari, Hadi Ghaemi, Shirin Ebadi, Nazila Fathi, NYT ‘journalist’ and a zionist hasbara, Thomas pickering, Allen Eyre Trita Parsi and Brzezinski, covered by the intelligence services’ outlets including VOA.

    http://act.niacouncil.org/site/PageNavigator/2012LeadershipConferenceAgenda.html

    Noam Chomsky must know better that in ‘Iran deal’ does not serve Iranian interest and is full of HOLES to be used by the criminals at the WH and elsewhere, against Iran if Iran does not ‘behave’. That’s why there is a STRONG VOICE against the deal in IRAN where no one in West is aware of, because of Zionist driven mass media.
    “Iran Deal” is designed to strengthen the position of the fifth column, “reformers” – Green – by Obama and CIA to expand US influence in Iran to prepare the ground for regime change.

    Last week, one of the ‘reformers’ by the name of Sadegh Kharrazi, former Diplomat, came with a list of reformists’ names who are considered traitors since they have ‘secret’ connection with CIA.
    Moreover, Michael Ledeen, a zionist jew who has done anything to force US to stage a military attack on Iran, like Iraq, Libya and Syria, published a letter from the traitors ‘green’ where showed these ‘Green’ had connection with State Department through Charles Schumer, when Hillary Clinton was sectary of State. This is the same traitors that Chomsky supported and attended their rallies at the UN and took pictures with them. Mr. Chomsky you must know better.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelledeen/2015/08/09/schumer-and-the-secrets-of-iran/

    The following is the letter that the ‘green’ wrote to state department in 2009:

    http://pjmedia-new.pjmedia.netdna-cdn.com/michaelledeen/user-content/10/files/2012/02/memo_to_US_from_Greens_20091.pdf

    I repeat: “Iran Deal” is a trap designed to keep Iran and Iranians in shackles, but could not deny them of 3 percent enrichment. In 2003, Javad Zarif, Hassan Rouhani in Khatami government offered to dismantle Nuclear enrichment for good, but Bush did not accept since he thought he will go into Iran after destroying Iraq, but he couldn’t. Neocon are angry about it since Iran still is standing. Now, Obama, a zionist stooge, is trying to implement ‘regime change’ by strengthening the hand of fifth Column in Iran, the ‘reformists’ and their extension NIAC in Washington. No Iranian who understand the implication of this ‘nuclear deal’ will support it. It is against Iran and it follows the same footsteps of Iraq case where this piece of trash tends to spy on Iranian nuclear program, military sites and identify Iranian scientist for assassinations. ONLY traitors and USG, Zionists and intelligence services like this path to regime change since other paths have not worked so far.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @Sherman
  20. Deduction says:
    @Rurik

    no one says Israel is behind everything bad. No one

    You should speak to your mate Solonto…

    Anyway, please identify something significant and good that Israel has done.

    I can name significant and good things done by all major world figures and certainly by all nations. I have the emotional maturity to deal with complexity, do you?

    Is it paranoid schizophrenia for us Americans to resent that fact and the influence that Zionists like Sheldon Adelson and Netanyahu (too many others) have over our foreign policy?

    No, of course not. It is paranoid schizophrenia for you to believe that it is all-powerful though. You have lost all context, and reality includes context, therefore reality is no longer your friend.

    What people are saying is that Israel was behind 911 and the subsequent wars in the Middle East to benefit Israel

    They haven’t even benefited from any of it. Bin Laden admitted it. Plenty of ME Muslims loved him for it.

    I know that we won’t get anywhere on this topic, but quickly – how many people do you think would have had to have been in on the conspiracy for Israel to perpetrate 9/11?

    Also, please don’t post huge cut and paste screeds from looney tunes websites, it’s not an argument, it’s a lawyer’s trick, drown your opponent in inane paperwork.

    also Israel is behind the appalling treatment of the Palestinians

    What about the far-worse treatments dealt out to many other peoples all over the Middle East by the different arabs in that region?

    Israel is no saint but she is no whore either. At least, if you want to apply a standard that doesn’t reduce all of the countries in the region to whores.

    I suspect that the Jew obsessed, both pro and anti, are caught mutually reinforcing each other. It’s a Girardian mimetic crisis.

    • Replies: @bunga
    , @Rurik
  21. Sherman says:
    @No Second Israel

    The fact that you’re unemployed – is this also the fault of the Zionist Jews?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  22. alexander says:
    @Deduction

    Dear Mr Deduction,

    They say one is able to deduce a lot, not merely by what one says, but how they say it.

    Lets take a look at your last statement…..

    You seem to suggest that pro-zionist extremists, who are certain Israel can do no” wrong”, are paid shills….

    Whereas anti- zionist extremists, who are certain Israel can do no “right” are….

    paranoid schizophrenics.

    The possibility that it might , in fact, be the other way around seems to transcend your intellect.

    or does it merely betray your penchant for poor thinking ?

    In either case ,your attempt to disabuse Mr Chomsky of his inclination to read the comments on his article does betray a certain paranoia on your part. You seem worried he might read something that just might strike a chord.

    Should Mr Chomsky take your advice and choose to avoid comments provided in this section, perhaps you should suggest he start first, by avoiding yours.

    That would be a most intelligent “deduction” !

    • Replies: @Deduction
  23. bunga says:
    @Deduction

    EET THIS COMMENTER THIS THREAD HIDE THREAD
    mangobabu says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    August 21, 2015 at 8:39 pm GMT • 400 Words
    why does Jew raise this argument all the time that Israel is no saint but no whore either and rest are as bad s Israelis are?

    They cite Mynamar,Sudan,China,Iraq,Iran and who ever is around on its mind at that time
    So how is it different?

    Those countries don’t depend on other to screw a third country
    Those countries are under sanctions of one type or another
    None from them comes to Congress and elicits standing ovation .None manages 3 times .None dares to insult US president. None dare to undermines the national interest ,,goes behind President to Congress to lobby for what is inherently anti American . None is accused of being the most dangerous intelligence threat to US . Israel fits the description . None has stolen US nuclear material,contaminated US land and come back as head of the said country or functioned for decades in Hollywood .

    None has piggybacked on US to torture the citizen of the neighboring countries . None has forced US to pursue a particular foreign policy in respect to a third country .
    None has threatened to attack another country in stead of seeking and instead of dismissing negotiation.
    None has forced US to clamp down on any democratic movements and hopes in another 3rd country.
    None has constantly flouted UN resolutions with no adverse consequences but only has managed to do so through massive abuse of media,money,bribery, lying and massive ,distortions,and suppression of relevant countervailing checks and balances .
    None has imposed blockade and forced the rest to do so by abusing US domestic politics.
    None has killed Americans cold blood and has put Americans in danger . Israel has done .

    None has claimed to have same values,identical interests,and same goals while hurting US
    None has manged and tried to destroy it opponents within west by evoking abstract racial , religious ,and confusing concepts .
    None has

    None has demanded international rules be interpreted or written differently from other (while has achieved that through the open bribery of the western politicians and the corruption of the media )

    None has created threat and terror out of the thin air and has forced west to impose sanction and has goaded to war .
    Israel . Israel.

  24. IanM says:

    Why, Ron? Why? Enough for me.

  25. Rurik says:
    @Deduction

    Hello Deduction ..

    I don’t see that SC blames all the world’s ills on Israel, but he is correct in going back to the world wars and earlier to understand contemporary events

    please identify something significant and good that Israel has done.

    many things indeed

    The spirit of self-determination is a profoundly important human imperative. It’s right and good and proper that the Jews, like all other peoples, be allowed to have a homeland where they can thrive. I agree in principle to the principles of Zionism, I just don’t like how it’s being implemented. I suspect that if a fraction of the money and effort that’s been wasted murdering and terrorizing the Palestinians would have been spent buying their land and making peace with them and living side by side with them as they had lived side by side with the Jews for centuries when they were in control, that we wouldn’t be experiencing all this terrible strife. (I won’t go into the reasons the Jews are so cruel to the Pals, because right now I’m writing about the good things about Israel)

    what other significant and good things that Israel has done .. ?

    she builds good drones and other weapons

    she hasn’t killed or otherwise genocided all the Muslims and Christians from their homes

    she’s plucky

    she has some fine and impressive hi-tech industries

    I’ve dated some Israeli girls and they’re right up there

    I’ve known some Israeli guys and most of them are nice

    Bibi’s late psychologist seems like he must have been a very humane and decent fellow (RIP) and so there must be many more like him.

    There are the IDF refuseniks of course who have the world’s respect and mine.

    Perhaps you could add to this list..

    I can name significant and good things done by all major world figures and certainly by all nations. I have the emotional maturity to deal with complexity, do you?

    now you’re being a little condescending

    what pray are some of the good things that were done by Ariel Sharon?

    Or Bibi. What good things has Bibi done?

    Pol Pot

    Mao

    Beria

    Bela Kun

    They are major world figures are they not? And most assuredly did significant things. But I’m a little hard pressed to pick out the “good” thing they did. Unless your idea of ‘good’ is a little different from mine.

    It is paranoid schizophrenia for you to believe that it is all-powerful though. You have lost all context, and reality includes context, therefore reality is no longer your friend.

    Silly Deduction with that snooty tone again. Didn’t I start out by saying that no one claims Israel is all powerful? If she were all powerful I wouldn’t be here typing on my computer with my wry observations now would I? Rather I’d be in Gitmo with tubes being shoved up my kiester as an example to others. But that hasn’t happened yet, so Israel certainly is far from being “all-powerful”.

    “wars in the Middle East to benefit Israel”

    They haven’t even benefited from any of it. Bin Laden admitted it.

    now my friend you seem a bit delusional

    If you never read all the Zionists clamoring for the removal of Saddam from Tom Friedman and Bibi and all the rest leading up to the war on Iraq, then what are you doing here at Ron’s site. I seem to get that this is for people with at least a shred of political savvy. Saying Israel isn’t benefiting from these wars, is like pretending she isn’t waiting for the fall of Assad so she can take claim to the whole of the Golan Heights. Come on man

    As for Osama taking credit, there again, do you get all your info from the MSM? Why are you here?

    how many people do you think would have had to have been in on the conspiracy for Israel to perpetrate 9/11?

    how many were necessary for Israel and the US to cover up the cowardly attack and act of war when Israel tried to sink the USS Liberty?

    We all know the Israeli government knew the attacks were going to happen because they had their Mossad agents filming the first plane hitting the tower, (and then were seen dancing and celebrating the horror). And yet our entire msm and fecal government treats Bibi like some kind of statesman hero even tho it’s clear at the highest levels of the Israeli government that they knew the attack was going to happened and didn’t warn us. They wanted as many casualties as possible. (“It’s very good”) Yet this is all hushed up. From the very top of our fecal government all the way down to the lowliest mainstream journalist whore. They don’t dare speak a word of it. Or all the other lies and treasons and cover ups. They all know which side of the bread has the butter on it and which side Michael Hastings and Andrew Breitbart found themselves on.

    Also, please don’t post huge cut and paste

    if you’d read my posts you’d know I don’t do that

    What about the far-worse treatments dealt out to many other peoples all over the Middle East by the different arabs in that region?

    You mean like how ZOG destabilized Libya and caused and is causing a dystopian hell of earth in what used to be a relatively stable and prosperous country?

    Or how ZOG is funding and arming sub-human head slicers in Syria today?

    Or how ZOG fomented a war between Iraq and Iran in the eighties?

    Those kinds of atrocities?

    But the reason many Americans and others are concerned about the wars in the Middle East and Israel’s treatment of the Pals is because of the threat of nuclear Armageddon in the first place and just our simple human decency is rendered asunder by the decades old brutal outrages against the Palestinians- respectively.

    We don’t want to see the world blown to bits in some Sampson Option insanity or because our lickspittle politicians start a war with Russia to appease their Zio-masters.

    And we’re collectively horrified by the way Israel tortures and humiliates the Palestinians for the fun of it. It’s disgusting and viscerally repugnant. They’re treated worst than animals, and even animals don’t deserve to be treated like that. It says far more about the Zio-mentality and their apologists that it says about anything else.

    Israel is no saint but she is no whore either.

    The whores are in the Western governments and media.

    Girardian mimetic crisis.

    fascinating

    I did a spot of research and it’s like when I discovered Lysander Spooner so many years ago and realized one more kindred spirit whom I didn’t even know existed.

    thanks for that ; )

  26. Deduction says:
    @alexander

    You make no sense, more than mangobabu, who is obviously insane, but still no sense.

    I said that everyone who is Jew obsessed, both pro and anti, is nuts.

    A statement I stand by and your comment reinforces.

    Please try to make a comment without betraying your poor mental state.

    For example, you should remember that nothing is all or nothing, if you can understand that seeming paradox?

    Everything is a shade of grey, some more black than others, and the way the Saudis are bombing the Yemenis right now is much more black than the way Israel has treated the Palestinians, at any point in time.

    Yet you don’t care. Why would you? The Saudis aren’t Jews.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @silviosilver
  27. KA says:
    @boogerbently

    That is the position of those who are hoping to fish out some irrelevant aspect out of the document ,add some aura by being George Zahn on AP and not being the known face of Judith Miller of NYT ,and then reach a conclusion popular to the serfs in the DC metro area .

    Parching is huge complex with diverse functions . Access should not be given automatically. Neither the IAEA agreement between nation and IAEA should be made available to other countries . That will be violating the IAEA rules .
    Only George Zahn can write that the fear is that Parchin will be thoroughly cleaned by Iran in 24 days before arrival of IAEA and then he can say that Iran will self report on Parchin.

    I am waiting to see his 3 rd grade equation that he provided to 2 nd graders among the GOP and Democrats like Menendez and Cotton to understand the seriousness of Arak and Nantez and Parchim.

  28. @Rurik

    What us Americans are complaining about is that it isn’t in our interest to genocide the Palestinians or to get so many of our young people killed or maimed slaughtering people in Iraq and Libya and Syria and destroying those countries in these illegal and immoral wars of aggression to benefit Israel.

    It diminishes our moral character as a nation and a people and makes us universally and understandably hated the world over

    I agree, but our citizens are self-absorbed and depressingly ignorant, so change will not come at the ballot box until this corrupt house of card collapses under the weight of its own hubris.

  29. @Rurik

    It’s right and good and proper that the Jews, like all other peoples, be allowed to have a homeland where they can thrive.

    Just out of curiosity, would “all peoples” include Palestinians(?) and if so, how do you square the taking of the Palestinian’s homeland?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  30. KA says:
    @Deduction

    “But he’s repeatedly made himself a lightning rod by conducting unofficial diplomacy, criticizing Israel for its treatment of Palestinians, and publicly chastising his successors on foreign policy — upending the traditional notion that politics end at the water’s edge. He’s met with tyrants and terrorists, including officials from Hamas. And his book Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, which took the Palestinian side, intimated that Jews dictate US policy in the Middle East, drawing charges of anti-Semitism from Jewish groups.”

    See how they kill the discussion! By simply blaming the messenger .
    Accusation of being apartheid state has been hurled against Israel by those who suffered under it in S Africa and by quite a few from Israel. Look how this guy segues into racist accusation that Hamas being terrorist outfit.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/8/17/9163717/jimmy-carter-great-leader-outsider

    Congressman Jerrold Nadler’s very-welcome statement in support of the Iran Deal today includes many references to his Jewishness and his devotion to Israel. He seems most worried that he will be seen as anti-Israel for supporting the deal, that his pro-Israel base will eat him alive for the decision.

    – Nadler’s statement includes an essay on the “poisonous rhetoric” on both sides of the debate. And he says that he was under pressure on the Iraq war vote of 2002 to vote for Israel by voting for war. Here’s a portion of that essay: – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/against-question-commitment#sthash.WDtIbwGL.dpuf

    And people tell us that Iraq war were for oil !

  31. KA says:
    @boogerbently

    Former IAEA Official: AP Doc on Iran a ‘Crude’ Forgery
    Likens Doc to ‘Niger Letter’ Ahead of 2003 US Invasion of Iraq
    by Jason Ditz, August 21, 2015

    http://news.antiwar.com/2015/08/21/former-iaea-official-ap-doc-on-iran-a-crude-forgery/

  32. @Tom_R

    CHOMSKY WON’T NAME THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM—THE JEWISH LOBBY.

    Took the words out of my mouth, Tom.

    Chomsky really comes across as disingenuous when he describes Leon Wieseltier as a “respected liberal intellectual.”

    Come on. Does Wieseltier’s anti-Iran vehemence derive from his “liberal” principles or from his Zionist principles? To ask is to answer, of course.

    And secondly, the most “nativist” nation on earth is Israel, which has declared itself a “Jewish” state, and is building the world’s biggest prison to keep black Africans out,

    We really need to begin referring to that country by its full initials: JSIL. Jewish State in the Levant.

  33. @Deduction

    I said that everyone who is Jew obsessed, both pro and anti, is nuts.

    That’s fine in theory, but the way it plays out in practise is no different to the standard shaming tactic of calling people “anti-semites.” This becomes clear when we consider just how little is required to be deemed “obsessed.” For example, have you ever noticed a difference between the standards Jews judge their own behavior by compared to the standards they hold everyone else to? Well then, you’re “obsessed.” Translated into standard terminology, you are spreading “noxious anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.”

  34. @Sherman

    The fact that you’re unemployed – is this also the fault of the Zionist Jews?

    Not bad, but a little underdone. You really need to include something about “your mom’s basement” and being “inbred.”

    A good start though.

    • Replies: @No Second Israel
  35. Deduction says:

    For example, have you ever noticed a difference between the standards Jews judge their own behavior by compared to the standards they hold everyone else to

    See, you’re still holding Jews to a higher standard than yoy do any other people; except maybe your own. In the West we are locked in some pretty unhealthy psychology.

    It is very normal for people to overlook their own faults and emphasise their enemies’.

    Admittedly, in the West, we are stuck in a bizarro version of this. Like a potlach where those partaking compete by giving the best presents, we compete by being the most self-abasing; which conversely leads us to being the most generous to the most foreign.

    We should not forget how WEIRD we are for this.

    It us common for me to meet people for whom the fact that something benefits themselves means, necessarily, that the something can have no positive moral qualities.

    An unbelievably irrational and masochistic moral philosophy. I’d take being a bit of a hypocrite over that any day.

  36. @silviosilver

    {..is this also the fault of the Zionist Jews?}

    The following gives you an answer:

    https://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-defense-department/

  37. Rurik says:
    @Existential Confusion

    other peoples, be allowed to have a homeland where they can thrive.

    Just out of curiosity, would “all peoples” include Palestinians(?) and if so, how do you square the taking of the Palestinian’s homeland?

    good question

    I mean especially the Palestinian people today

    Were it up to me, I’d prosecute every single person, Jewish or otherwise who had committed crimes against the Palestinians (or Israelis) based on fundamental and universal principles of human rights and property rights and the Geneva convention. Starting with Bibi and traitors within our own government.

    But that’s just me.

    I wouldn’t stop there either. I’d vigorously go after members of the American government who have waged illegal wars against innocent people in the Middle East and Ukraine and elsewhere. All foreign aid to Israel would halt and I would mandate that we, the American people be taxed heavily to try to compensate at least monetarily for all the evil and misery and horrors we have visited upon the people of Palestine and Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria and Ukraine and so many other places. If I were president I’d to on international television and apologize and beg their forgiveness. That is the least we could do as a start before we began helping them rebuild their countries and bury their dead and try to begin to heal their shattered collective souls.

    They have done much evil in our name ..

    “it was worth it”

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  38. Deduction says:

    Were it up to me, I’d prosecute every single person, Jewish or otherwise who had committed crimes against the Palestinians (or Israelis) based on fundamental and universal principles of human rights and property rights and the Geneva convention. Starting with Bibi and traitors within our own government.

    If you applied that rule to the whole world, equally, you would have no government left and certainly no-one to enforce those supposed ‘fundemental’ and ‘universal’ principles.

    Doesn’t something have to actually be universal to be called universal? Surely you mean theoretical…

    You are trying to enforce an impossible standard. Take Assad in Syria. He commits all sorts of horrible crimes, yet the only alternative is for him to let his enemies commit even worse crimes against everyone he knows and cares about.

    You’ve got to work within reality. You must be early 20s?

  39. @Rurik

    I am with you, right up until you start talking about the American people being taxed to provide compensation.

    The American people have been lied to, manipulated, divided, taxed, their country stripped of it’s technological innovations, capital and jobs, then they are sent off to die by corrupt politicians – controlled by the same financial interests that hold hegemony over much of the western world. The average American has no more control over the policies and crimes perpetrated in their name than the people in the world trade center did over their fate on 9 / 11. We could spend years going further and further back to lay blame on countries and religions to no purpose, other than further division and hate.

    Instead of taking money from average working class Americans and their progeny, I would suggest going after the politicians and their Machiavellian masters – you would then have the support of the American people.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  40. Rurik says:

    If you applied that rule to the whole world, equally, you would have no government left and certainly no-one to enforce those supposed ‘fundemental’ and ‘universal’ principles.

    Oh, I didn’t know that Costa Rica and Uruguay and Switzerland and Japan and Norway and Latvia and Paraguay and Brazil and Canada or most countries in the world are busy slaughtering innocent people and running torture camps and blowing up boys playing on the beach.

    I guess I should get out more.

    Doesn’t something have to actually be universal to be called universal? Surely you mean theoretical…

    um.. no

    a principle can be universal, see?

    like a universal principle of human rights. Comprende?

    it doesn’t stop being a universal principle because some individual believes people are best when they’re being tortured or doing the torturing or are at the moment being tortured or murdered. No. It is enough for a universal principle that enough people agree to aspire to it. Capish?

    You are trying to enforce an impossible standard. Take Assad in Syria.

    There are always going to be conflicts in the world and between humans. There’s nothing I can do about that. It’s life. Reality as you call it.

    However. When it’s MY government that is foisting “all sorts of horrible crimes” upon innocent people, destroying their countries right and left, telling lies about them using chemical weapons as a pretext to butcher more of them- when it was my government that was behind the use of chemical weapons on children in the first place, then I feel the need and obligation to speak out, see?

    Because the conflict in Syria (just like Ukraine and elsewhere) has Zio-bloody hands all over it. It is my government that destroyed Libya and sent sub-human cannibals into Syria armed with weapons and funding they got through the direct actions of my government- who wanted terrorists in Syria in order to destroy that country so that Israel could steal the Golan Heights and would have one more destabilized, dystopian, -hell on earth- country on its borders that could put up no effective resistance to their crimes and outrages against human decency, all notions of justice and the universal principles of human rights.

    For twenty year olds and everyone else.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
  41. Rurik says:
    @Existential Confusion

    Ok, I’m a little frustrated with my fellow Americans.

    at times I start to wonder if they care or not that we’re waging illegal and immoral and unconstitutional wars for fun and profit and mass murdering and maiming and displacing millions upon millions of families and children and old folks who have done nothing wrong to anyone, but who just happen somehow to be inconvenient to the bloodthirsty Zionists.

    I see Hagee on the television and I am aware of 70 to 80 million American so-called “Christian” Zionists who can’t wait for every single Palestinian man, women and child to be dismembered and their limbs tossed at the feet of the Christ Himself, the Lamb of Peace, as they demand their thousand year rapture.

    I sometimes wonder if He would feel the same reflex to vomit all over these people that I feel. Perhaps want to get out his flaming sword.

    It’s how I feel when I see that Lindsey Graham has been reelected to the Senate. I would like every single person who voted for him to go to Fallujah and live what those people have been forced to live. To see the horribly disfigured babies that are a result of our DU and experience the moral terror that we’ve visited upon those pitiful people.

    I would like every American that has voted for Lindsey or John McBloodstain to at least suffer some shred of the misery that they are voting to be done to others.

    But in the end, you’re right.

    They are hopelessly and helplessly ignorant. No more accountable than the sheep that graze in the pastures of S. Carolina. Perhaps just slightly more articulate, but equally aware of what’s going on.

    For justice to be done, it should be Sheldon Adelson and the class A stockholders of the Fed who should pay for all of this. Jimmy Woolsey and Dick Cheney and all the other neocons and assorted rotten scumbags. That’s who should pay for all of this.

    But even then I’m not going to have any support from the American cud chewers. All I can do is rant. That I can do. ; )

    • Agree: geokat62
  42. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    You wrote: I don’t see that SC blames all the world’s ills on Israel, but he is correct in going back to the world wars and earlier to understand contemporary events

    Of course he does. His hatred of Jews has almost a primordial quality to it. Often it is rather comical. I reckon he actually believes that jews are responsible for the winter season colds.

    He is also frequently engaged in mis- and disinformation. Just ask Ronald Thomas West, whose blog he recently attempted to defame.

    His byzantine fawning of anything Iranian is spectacle to behold any “goodwill” he shows others (including the U.S.) are quite dishonest.

    He has in this blog called me “an arrogant SOB” and essentially threatened to “POP” and decapitate Jews.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  43. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    ‘Beware fighting monsters, … for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.’

    ~ Nietzsche

    His hatred of Jews has almost a primordial quality to it

    perhaps

    but Sam, you’re a Jew, surely you must wince at the unique and sometimes primordial hatred Jews often display for non-Jews

    I don’t have to go into a litany of quotes. We’re all aware of them. We’re all aware of the way the Pals have been treated for so long. They’re hated simply for existing! At least those who hate the Jews hate them for the things the Jews have done or are doing. The fire bombing of German cities and the desire of some Jews to see the German people genocided. The financial uber-swindles like the Fed, for instance. The wars, the wars and always with the wars. Look at how the Iranians had to suffer SAVAK for so long. Look at how they’re relentlessly terrorized and vilified as evil. It’s really no wonder that some of the victims of the Jews like the Germans and the Arabs and the Persians start eventually to return the favor.

    Hate is a cancer that eats people up from the inside out. It rends the soul. It takes the happiness out of our one chance to enjoy this life and turns it to something ugly. Why would anyone allow themselves to be given over to hate unless they had no choice, as it seems to me that the people of the Middle East have been given no choice but to hate those who have tormented and persecuted them for so long. And then if you ask your typical Jew why do they persecute the Palestinians so much, they tell you it is them! that are being persecuted. Surly you know this, because you hear it from other Jews, no?

    So it is a very intractable situation.

    But all that said, I don’t know if I agree that SC hate Jews, per se. He’s just uniquely aware of some of the more vile things some Jews (and others) have done and are doing. As you well know, there are some things that some Jews have done and are doing that are worthy of criticism (hate?), no?

    There seems to be a myopia that some Jews suffer because as I’ve found to my incredulous astonishment, there really are some Jews that actually belive that they are the only humans with souls, and that the rest of us were put here to be their slaves. Did you know that? It’s true! There really are some Jews that f’n deluded. I never believed it until I discovered it recently. They exist! And often have power. How do you reason with such people?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Sam Shama
  44. @Rurik

    Hate is a cancer that eats people up from the inside out. It rends the soul. It takes the happiness out of our one chance to enjoy this life and turns it to something ugly. Why would anyone allow themselves to be given over to hate unless they had no choice, as it seems to me that the people of the Middle East have been given no choice but to hate those who have tormented and persecuted them for so long.

    Similarities between the Persian people and the German people keep POPping up —

    The image I have constructed of long-suffering Iranians is captured in this poem by Rumi:

    The Guest House

    This being human is a guest house.
    Every morning a new arrival.

    A joy, a depression, a meanness,
    some momentary awareness comes
    As an unexpected visitor.

    Welcome and entertain them all!
    Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
    who violently sweep your house
    empty of its furniture,
    still treat each guest honorably.
    He may be clearing you out
    for some new delight.

    The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
    meet them at the door laughing,
    and invite them in.

    Be grateful for whoever comes,
    because each has been sent
    as a guide from beyond.

    Today I chanced upon the story of post-WWII German immigrants to the USA. The story was told and videographed by their granddaughter.

    http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~molna22a/classweb/politics/germanpersonal.html#1

    “Omi” — Grandmother — said that she was “homesick” for her German homeland for 10 years.

    She mentioned the German school that was started near her home in 1961. Further research revealed that the German School in Potomac, Maryland, was built in 1961 in what might be a neighborhood where German émigré gathered at about that time (it is still in existence with an enrollment of 500). In the same neighborhood is a Roman Catholic church, Our Lady of Mercy, also established in 1961. I would like to visit Our Lady of Mercy church some day.

    One of the most terrible legacies of the egregiously overdone and mendacious narrative of the so-called jewish holocaust is how it has obliterated the family histories of so very many other European-American (and Middle Eastern) people whose grandparents and parents suffered and endured unspeakable horrors but never spoke of them, never engaged in endless and shameful public pity parties, never felt sorry for themselves but also, and sadly, never passed along to their children and grandchildren the stories of the challenges they faced with so much grace and dignity.

    It makes me weep to think of what my parents endured, and what this good Omi and Opa suffered and surmounted, and what a crime it is that their lives had to be redirected from what could have been a so much more productive course, because of the unspeakably criminal mentality of people like Henry Morgenthau, Jr. and FDR and the others who were persuaded that committing genocide by firebombing and starvation was “worth the price.”

    It makes me weep that Jews did this to the German people and are on a path to do the same thing to the people of Iran.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  45. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Collecting similar sentiments you expressed:

    but Sam, you’re a Jew, surely you must wince at the unique and sometimes primordial hatred Jews often display for non-Jews

    I’ve found to my incredulous astonishment, there really are some Jews that actually believe that they are the only humans with souls, and that the rest of us were put here to be their slaves.

    I really have never actually met a jew with deep hatred of non-jews in this country or in Europe. In fact my Austrian grandmother who is survivor, (therefore with every reason to utterly despise Germans), embraces a practical approach to the matter and goes on with life as if nothing really terrible transpired (in fact to this day she keeps in close touch with her German friends). She sees it as one example of the many lamentable episodes of Man’s history, when we are seized by demonic hatred. Well, she is the only Ashkenazi in the family, the others being Mizrachim, who really have little reason to think of Palestinians and others in the ME as being anything other than native dwellers. So I see things illuminated in the same light.

    I have on the other hand met with some “settlers” in the WB, who in my opinion are simply land robbers (a not uncommon condition in human history – which is not to excuse the act, mind you), aided by a government with illegitimate claims in the same regard, and implicitly endorsed by the USA. These people, mainly from the ex-soviet countries, are “jewish” only as an excuse to participate in the land-grab. Not infrequently, these halfwits assert exclusive ownership of selective portions of the Bible to proclaim their dominion. I have almost come to blows with these creatures more than once. IMO, the USA/Europe should use all the power in their capacity to stop this ongoing theft and genocide, send this horde packing, back to where they traveled from. Israel should thereafter start considering reparations for displaced Palestinians.

    The financial uber-swindles like the Fed, for instance.

    In complete disagreement with you on this matter. A swindle is defined as an act of stealing from someone through deception. The fed has not deceived ANYONE, nor has it stolen ANYTHING. If you are referring to the quantitative easing policy undertaken during 2008-Oct 2014 period, I have discussed and devalued completely, that argument elsewhere, including one of SAKER’s and one of Ilana Mercer’s posts. I am happy to go through it once more, if you care to define what precisely you mean by swindle in this context.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  46. in fact my Austrian grandmother who is survivor, (therefore with every reason to utterly despise Germans)

    Your grandmother has reason to utterly despise Germans because she is alive?

    800,000 German civilians died of starvation that Chaim Weizmann had a hand in enforcing. Weizmann’s payoff was the Balfour declaration, “a homeland for Jews.”

    Do those 800,00 Germans have “every reason to utterly despise Jews?”
    Or would they, if they had survived?
    How many Jews died of starvation in World War I in Germany?

    600,000 German civilians died in fire bombings that Jews like Erich Mendelsohn and Solly Zuckerman played a material role in enabling.

    Do those 600,000 German civilians have “every reason to utterly despise Jews?”
    Or would they, if they had survived?
    How many Jews died in the Allied firebombing of Germany in World War II?

    Two million German women were raped by Stalin’s troops, under the command of Jewish Gen. Zhukov and goaded by Jewish propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg to “rape, rape, rape.”
    Do those 2 million German women have “every reason to utterly despise Jews?”
    How many Jewish women were raped by Germans in World War II?

    Exactly what is it that your grandmother survived that causes her to utterly despise Germans?

    Are you referring to a war that Jewish persons were material agents in starting and prosecuting to murderous extremes such that the world has never seen the like?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  47. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    good poem SC

    genocide by firebombing and starvation was “worth the price.”

    when she said that

    how is she different from Himmler ?

  48. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    who is survivor, (therefore with every reason to utterly despise Germans),

    I don’t buy that the German people were complicit in a Holocaust

    We had camps for the “Japs” here in the states. If there were murders that took place, do I blame the American people for what happened in the Japanese internment camps? I don’t even blame Americans for Gitmo, even tho I suspect they’re more complicit than the Germans were for the concentration camps because I think we Americans know torture goes on there.

    Mizrachim

    is that also known as Sephardic?

    most of the Jews I know are just like everybody else

    good and decent people who I like and respect

    but I have talked to young Israelis who are rabid in their hatred of the Pals

    and we’re all tired of the stereotypes coming out of (Jewish) Hollywood depicting Germans and Arabs and Southern white men as evil.

    there seem to be irreconcilable differences between the Jews and Gentiles

    The fed has not deceived ANYONE, nor has it stolen ANYTHING.

    Oh my lord, nothing could be further from the truth. The Fed caused the Great Depression! (so it could loot the country dry) They have swindled 90% of the value of the dollar at the direct expense to the rest of us.

    You have much to learn about the Fed my friend. Much.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  49. “Oh my lord, nothing could be further from the truth. The Fed caused the Great Depression! (so it could loot the country dry) They have swindled 90% of the value of the dollar at the direct expense to the rest of us.

    You have much to learn about the Fed my friend. Much.”

    I agree, but this barely touches on the evil perpetrated by the Fed.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  50. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I am quite content to inform you that I have no interest in engaging you in your revisionist narrative, except to note, yet again, their gruesome and weirdly puerile nature . You are in fact suggesting that Jewish persons ought to be happy just because they survived, never mind their inalienable right as human beings, not to be ghettoised or efficiently incinerated!

  51. Deduction says:

    there seem to be irreconcilable differences between the Jews and Gentiles

    Yeah that’s why more than half of American Jews are marrying gentiles. ‘Irreconcilable differences!’

    You’re so easy to disprove. Not with nutty sites but with well known facts which are easily observable.

    I’m working the weekend so I don’t have the time to respond to everything right now.

    But really, how wrong can someone be?

    You guys are so crazy. It’s so weird.

    It’s like you have no perspective at all.

    I don’t even blame Americans for Gitmo

    You’re not only comparing Gitmo to auschwitz but you’re even implying that it is worse. That’s beyond nuts.

    I want to help, but you can’t teach crazy. Good luck. I hope life is forgiving for you.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  52. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    I don’t much care for arguments that traverse the spectrum from condemning the entire population of Jews for causing the agony of Palestinians while blithely excusing the complicity of the German citizenry during WWII! What I believe the responsibility of Israel is, I have clearly stated, but I have no wish to contaminate my position debating the refuse of Holocaust revisionism.

    S2C’s abjectly stupid argument that it was “Chaim Weizman’s hand” (‘among others‘ as he so magnanimously concedes….) that was performing the omnipotent magician’s role while our darling Nazi machineries were simply under a spell, is a macabre dystopia that will find currency only in the select clubs that I am thankful to say will always remain on the fringes of civilisation.

    The Fed did not cause the Great Depression. It was the stock market collapse leading to a widespread loss of confidence and collapsing Aggregate Demand in the economy that caused the Depression. What we can say, is that the Fed in fact DID NOT ease monetary policy due to the influence of liquidationists, which exacerbated the economic crisis. This was brilliantly explained by John Maynard Keynes. (And do please spare me the “Austrian Economic Science”, which with its use of “praxeology” is closer to “reflexology” and is neither economics nor science even in the most generous application of those terms). That was the 1930s. Note further, that it was not the first time that economies have witnessed demand collapses with or without the destruction of productive capacity. We have recorded accounts from Pharaonic Egypt, Gupta Dynasty India, Zhou Dynasty China, Diocletian Rome, to the current Western periods. Do understand that it was the Fed’s actions in 2008 onwards, which prevented a full scale depression and contained it to a severe recession. If you are looking for anyone to blame, I should point squarely in the direction of our Congress, the fiscal authority, which totally abrogated its duty to engage in infrastructure investments, so needed (and not the least for the employment it could have generated) and so cheaply financeable during the same period! All for the benefit of partisan politics.

    So my friend Rurik, unless you can produce any scientific (by which I mean an econometric study, and not circular praxeology), evidence, I think I will be rather content my current ignorance of the Fed, such as it is.

  53. @Sam Shama

    The zionists turned Gaza into the biggest ghetto and have incinerated Palestinians including toddlers and children by phosphorous bombs. The zionist Jews must face justice including executions for their war crimes against humanity, and pay reparations for the rest of their lives.

  54. @Sam Shama

    If by “revisionist” you mean smashing the underpinnings of the skyscraper of lies that have been foisted on the world for the last 100 years and replacing them with solid facts and evidence, then guilty as charged.

    It is irrefutable fact that 800 000 German civilians were starved to death through a deliberate policy of the British government with which Chaim Weizmann participated, in exchange for which he was granted the Balfour declaration.

    see C Paul Vincent, “The Politics of Hunger: The Allied Blockade of Germany, 1915-1919
    Simon Winchester, “Atlantic: Great Sea Battles, Heroic Discoveries, Titanic Storms, and a Vast Ocean of a Million Stories,” and
    Leonard Stein, “The Balfour Declaration.”

    It is irrefutable fact that 600 000 German civilians were incinerated — in reality, not in fantasmagoria as ludicrous as tales of soap and lampshades made from Jewish skin, and of gas chambers masquerading as showers or vice versa. German people really were incinerated. Jewish people, including your grandmother, were not. No Jewish person was incinerated in a gas chamber. There was no “plan” for the mass extermination by industrial means of “all the Jewish people.”

    There was such a plan, and it was carried out, for the mass incineration of the German people.

    That Jews claim special victimhood for not only not having endured what the German people did endure, is morally depraved.

    Rather than engage in speculation, i.e. “You are in fact suggesting —” Sam Shama, why did you not respond to my precise questions?

    How many Jews starved to death in Germany as a result of the blockade and famine deliberately imposed by the British forces with whom Chaim Weizmann was allied?

    How many Jews died in fire bombings in German cities that were deliberately planned and executed with the purpose of incinerating “as many German civilians as possible,” including “infants in their cribs,” with which “the Jewish architect” Erich Mendelsohn aided in the planning and in speeches in California in 1941-1942 advocated the nihilistic ideology of destroying the “old” in order to create a new vision — his vision — of a brave new architectural world, and which a Jewish man, Solly Zuckerman, urged Churchill to carry out out and even aided in the planning and execution of the firebombing devastation of Cologne. When Zuckerman was assigned to write about the condition of Cologne after the attack, he returned from his visit to the destroyed city and said that he could not possibly write about what he saw; the horror of the scene cause him to have writer’s block.

    Answer the questions, if you’ve got the balls, Sam Shama.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Rurik
  55. KA says:


    No, the real problem is that the neoconservative worldview — one that still informs the thinking of many of the groups and individuals who are most vocal in opposing the Iran deal — is fundamentally flawed. Getting Iraq wrong wasn’t just an unfortunate miscalculation, it happened because their theories of world politics were dubious and their understanding of how the world works was goofy. When your strategic software is riddled with bugs, you should expect a lot of error messages.

    Last but not least, the neoconservatives’ prescriptions for U.S. foreign policy are perennially distorted by a strong attachment to Israel, which Max Boot (and others) have described as a “key tenet” of the entire movement. There’s nothing wrong with such attachments per se, of course, but it has crippled their ability to give sensible policy advice to U.S. politicians. In particular, neoconservatives tend to believe that what’s good for Israel is good for the United States — and vice versa — which is why they see no conflict between their attachment to Israel and their loyalty to the United States. But no two states have identical interests all the time, and when the interests of two countries conflict, people who feel strongly about both are forced to decide which of these feelings is going to take priority.

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/21/neoconservatives-so-wrong-for-so-long-iraq-war-iran-deal/

    Iran P5 deal would have got a saner sober reflective thoughtful scrutiny ,had ithere been no infiltrative ovcupation of the cognitive domin of the Congress ,media,and think tanks by the shameless criminal gang of the neocons

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Rurik
  56. @Sam Shama

    The fed has not deceived ANYONE, nor has it stolen ANYTHING.
    I think I will be rather content my current ignorance of the Fed, such as it is.

    Two of your quotes, to be fair taken out of context, but representative of your position on the Fed. We may not always agree, but your posts on the Fed, and high-handed dismissal of the opposing view, are uncharacteristic of your normally thoughtful and well reasoned arguments.

    Thomas Jefferson – “The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered. ” (Seems rather prophetic)

    The monetarists, who believe that the Great Depression started as an ordinary recession, but that significant policy mistakes by monetary authorities (especially the Federal Reserve), caused a shrinking of the money supply which greatly exacerbated the economic situation, causing a recession to descend into the Great Depression. Related to this explanation are those who point to debt deflation causing those who borrow to owe ever more in real terms.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Great_Depression

    From the Money Masters:
    “The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned “central” bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers.

    [MORE]
    The success of the central banking scheme developed into a far-reaching plan described by President Clinton’s mentor, Georgetown Professor Carroll Quigley, “to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank….sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the levels of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world.”

    I strongly anyone, who hasn’t seen the documentary film “the Money Masters” to take the time to watch it:
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-money-masters/

    Congressman Ron Paul on the Fed – “Since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, the dollar has lost over 97 percent of its purchasing power, the US economy has been subjected to a series of painful Federal Reserve-created recessions and depressions, and government has grown to dangerous levels thanks to the Fed’s policy of monetizing the debt. Yet the Federal Reserve still operates under a congressionally-created shroud of secrecy.

    Perhaps the real reason the Fed opposes an audit can be found by looking at what has been revealed about the Fed’s operations in recent years. In 2010, as part of the Dodd-Frank bill, Congress authorized a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve’s activities during the financial crisis of 2008. The audit revealed that between 2007 and 2008 the Federal Reserve loaned over $16 trillion — more than four times the annual budget of the United States — to foreign central banks and politically-influential private companies.”

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Sam Shama
  57. annamaria says:
    @KA

    “in particular, neoconservatives tend to believe that what’s good for Israel is good for the United States — and vice versa — which is why they see no conflict between their attachment to Israel and their loyalty to the United States.”
    You are quite charitable towards the neoconservatives. Their loyalty to Israel is dictated either by ethnic tribalism or by a concern for generous enumeration as a reward for the loyalty to Israel’s interests. There is no loyalty to the US from either kind of neoconservatives.

  58. Sam Shama says:
    @Existential Confusion

    If I sounded high handed, my apologies, it was unintended.

    I am going to address your points in no particular order, but with an eye to disentangling the more common misconceptions.

    First Point:
    While I respect Ron Paul as an honest man, his observation that the dollar has lost 97% of its purchasing power since 1913 is patently misleading and rooted in the whole Gold Standard zealotry.

    The question that we ought to ask, is what would any other asset, if it were held instead of a dollar bill, return (in the form of dividends or income) during the same period. If one insisted on holding it as a coin (under one’s mattress, presumably) it would have not returned anything. Same outcome for Gold. It has no dividend income. However most hold the largest portion of their wealth not in physical currency, but in assets such as housing, stocks, bonds, treasury bills and technological patents. All of these have periodic returns, either in the form of interest paid, dividends or implicit owner’s equivalent rent. Should you look at these returns, they have all outstripped inflation over the same period, whilst the inherently non-productive metallic coin has not! So, it should be rather obvious at this juncture why the original question is itself completely meaningless.

    What is meaningful to ask, is the question, what can an hour’s worth of wages purchase for the citizen (food, clothing, housing, iMacs, iPhones, etc). To that end, the index of real hourly wages, calculated by the St. Louis Fed can offer cogent insight:

    https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=ozZ

    We are nearly at a 2-decade peak in that regard. One should legitimately ask then, what happened to the hourly-wage-purchasing-power since its 1972 high? Its a combination of things. Mostly it is the reality that over the period 1972-1995, the complete array of goods and services globally, became more widely produced (as opposed to a U.S. dominance prior to that). This led to the globe sharing more equally,the fruits of technological progress. It certainly does not imply that the absolute standard of living in the U.S. fell (it actually rose), but on a relative basis it became rather more ‘equal’. Since 1995 and through the current year, the index has in fact generally risen, implying the equivalent for U.S. purchasing power on a global footing.

    [MORE]

    Second Point:

    The Fed’s role in the 1930’s crisis, I agree with your point. If you noticed, I said as much in comment #53:

    What we can say, is that the Fed in fact DID NOT ease monetary policy due to the influence of liquidationists, which exacerbated the economic crisis.

    In other words, the Fed did NOT do then, what it did do in 2008! In the 1930-34 period, the Fed should have eased monetary conditions, but failed to do so, precisely due to contemporary influential opinions identical to that of Mr. Paul’s current insistence, leading to a deepening of the recession to a full-scale Depression. Ben Bernanke is in fact considered the foremost expert to have studied this lamentable historic error, and was therefore resolute in 2008, that the Fed not bend to political cries for monetary contraction. Thus we avoided the 2nd Depression.

    Third Point

    Fractional Reserve Banking and the control of a ‘Global Central Bank Cabal’.

    It is time for a bit of difficult truth telling. Yes, it is true that global central banking, led by the U.S. Federal Reserve, wields enormous influence over the functioning of our integrated economies, and therefore over public, corporate, small business and private credit. It is a non-detachable part of our western capitalist model, which has for the better part of a century aided in the creation of a low-friction, high-value consumer based economy in the U.S., Europe, Australia, Japan, Korea and now increasingly being adopted by China, India, Russia, and South America.

    Perhaps it comes at a cost. Which is that a relatively small global ultra-rich class is created. Here I am not at all certain that the central bank has the key role. It does have an important role, in that together with the Treasury, it acts in the best interest of the United States in maintaining global price stability and U.S. employment together with protecting the Dollar’s premier Reserve Currency status. In that last objective, it guards against speculative and geo-politically motivated attacks and manipulations of bilateral exchange rates. It is actually quite a responsibility, since much of global trade (with some exceptions, especially in arms trades) is denominated in USD.

    Coming back to this notion of a ‘cabal’, I should like to observe that international economic systems have marched forward a rather a long journey from the days of oppressive, authoritarian Diocletian Rome, Medieval European monarchical power concentrations to the present day egalitarian, shared (relatively speaking) economic systems. Could it be better shared? Certainly! I happen to think that, that is the premise of political discourse and action. Should we desire greater equality of economic outcomes (which might include lessening the power of donorist control), we need better politicians and tax policy. We need economists to speak the truth and in a way that de-mystifies the dismal science. Above all we need a more literate and skilled society with homogenous goals, dispensing with politically correct distractions. We also need to abhor the periodic killing sprees.

  59. Sam Shama says:
    @Existential Confusion

    For some reason the ‘MORE’ tag did not work, so here is the 2nd part of my last post:

    Second Point:

    The Fed’s role in the 1930’s crisis, I agree with your point. If you noticed, I said as much in comment #53:

    What we can say, is that the Fed in fact DID NOT ease monetary policy due to the influence of liquidationists, which exacerbated the economic crisis.

    In other words, the Fed did NOT do then, what it did do in 2008! In the 1930-34 period, the Fed should have eased monetary conditions, but failed to do so, precisely due to contemporary influential opinions identical to Mr. Paul’s current insistence, leading to a deepening of the recession to a full-scale Depression. Ben Bernanke is in fact considered the foremost expert to have studied this lamentable historic error, and was therefore resolute in 2008, that the Fed not bend to political cries for monetary contraction. Thus we avoided the 2nd Depression.

    Third Point

    Fractional Reserve Banking and the control of a ‘Global Central Bank Cabal’.

    It is time for a bit of difficult truth telling. Yes, it is true that global central banking, led by the U.S. Federal Reserve, wields enormous influence over the functioning of our integrated economies, and therefore over public, corporate, small business and private credit. It is a non-detachable part of our western capitalist model, which has for the better part of a century aided in the creation of a low-friction, high-value consumer based economy in the U.S., Europe, Australia, Japan, Korea and now increasingly being adopted by China, India, Russia, and South America.

    Perhaps it comes at a cost. Which is that a relatively small global ultra-rich class is created. Here I am not at all certain that the central bank has the key role. It does have an important role, in that together with the Treasury, it acts in the best interest of the United States in maintaining global price stability and U.S. employment together with protecting the Dollar’s premier Reserve Currency status. In that last objective, it guards against speculative and geo-politically motivated attacks and manipulations of bilateral exchange rates. It is actually quite a responsibility, since much of global trade (with some exceptions, especially in arms trades) is denominated in USD.

    Coming back to this notion of a ‘cabal’, I should like to observe that international economic systems have marched forward a rather a long journey from the days of oppressive, authoritarian Diocletian Rome, Medieval European monarchical power concentrations to the present day egalitarian, shared (relatively speaking) economic systems. Could it be better shared? Certainly! I happen to think that, that is the premise of political discourse and action. Should we desire greater equality of economic outcomes (which might include lessening the power of donorist control), we need better politicians and tax policy. We need economists to speak the truth and in a way that de-mystifies the dismal science. Above all we need a more literate and skilled society with homogenous goals, dispensing with politically correct distractions. We also need to abhor the periodic killing sprees.

  60. @Sam Shama

    [1]** In the 1930-34 period, the Fed should have eased monetary conditions, but failed to do so, precisely due to contemporary influential opinions identical to that of Mr. Paul’s current insistence, leading to a deepening of the recession to a full-scale Depression. [2]*** Ben Bernanke is in fact considered the foremost expert to have studied this lamentable historic error, and was therefore resolute in 2008, that the Fed not bend to political cries for monetary contraction. Thus we avoided the 2nd Depression.

    [1]** Nonsense. 1930 – 1935 FDR’s administration engaged in massive public works programs, providing employment while simultaneously creating the infrastructure that has undergirded USA prosperity ever since. —>

    “To prime the pump and cut unemployment, the NIRA created the Public Works Administration (PWA), a major program of public works, which organized and provided funds for the building of useful works such as government buildings, airports, hospitals, schools, roads, bridges, and dams.[51] From 1933 to 1935 PWA spent $3.3 billion with private companies to build 34,599 projects, many of them quite large.[52]

    Under Roosevelt, many unemployed persons were put to work on a wide range of government financed public works projects, building bridges, airports, dams, post offices, courthouses, and thousands of miles of road. Through reforestation and flood control, they reclaimed millions of hectares of soil from erosion and devastation. As noted by one authority, Roosevelt’s New Deal “was literally stamped on the American landscape”.[53]

    Farm and rural programs

    Pumping water by hand from sole water supply in this section of Wilder, Tennessee (Tennessee Valley Authority, 1942).
    Rural America was a high priority for Roosevelt and his energetic Secretary of Agriculture, Henry A. Wallace. FDR believed that full economic recovery depended upon the recovery of agriculture, and raising farm prices was a major tool, even though it meant higher food prices for the poor living in cities.

    Many rural people lived in severe poverty, especially in the South. Major programs addressed to their needs included the Resettlement Administration (RA), the Rural Electrification Administration (REA), rural welfare projects sponsored by the WPA, National Youth Administration (NYA), Forest Service and Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), including school lunches, building new schools, opening roads in remote areas, reforestation, and purchase of marginal lands to enlarge national forests. In 1933, the Administration launched the Tennessee Valley Authority, a project involving dam construction planning on an unprecedented scale to curb flooding, generate electricity, and modernize poor farms in the Tennessee Valley region of the Southern United States. Under the Farmers’ Relief Act of 1933, the government paid compensation to farmers who reduced output, thereby rising prices. As a result of this legislation, the average income of farmers almost doubled by 1937.[51]”

    [2]*** Nonsense again. Priming the employment pump, as FDR did, is precisely what Bernanke did NOT do. He tossed money at “too big to fail” banks who made ABU investments — Anyplace But USA.

    In 2010 the US Treasury Department got its Jewish nose out of the business of sniffing at Iran’s financial dealings and working to undermine them, long enough to produce a paper about the kind of infrastructure spending the USA ought to be doing.

    But that doesn’t mean it did anything to advance that pie-in-the-sky agenda.
    On the threshold of 2012 CATO Institute reported that infrastructure spending was woefully inadequate, and in 2015 the US Chamber of Commerce repeated the same assessment. https://www.uschamber.com/infrastructure

    re “Thus we avoided the second depression.”
    Depends on who “we” is.
    YOU out of a job is “avoiding a depression.”
    ME out of a job is a depression.

    (ME is not personal, it’s abstract. I’m gainfully employed, thanks,)

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Sam Shama
  61. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Precision, is the keyword here:

    1929: Year in which most of the world, including the U.S. entered the Great Depression. During 1929-mid 1932, GDP fell; by many measures, as much as 20%. The Federal Reserve, should have increased accommodation right away, which it did not, due to liquidationist voices like our current crop of “inflation! debasement I say!” dishonest, concern trolls in Congress.

    June 1933: date on which FDR’s New Deal related PWA was created, but was not really operational until 1934. So economic policy geared for recovery really commenced in mid 1934 or so, and full recovery was not achieved until 1939, the eve of WWII.

    You write:

    [2]*** Nonsense again. Priming the employment pump, as FDR did, is precisely what Bernanke did NOT do. He tossed money at “too big to fail” banks who made ABU investments — Anyplace But USA.

    which basically points to your lack of understanding as to how economic functions are separated in the U.S (perhaps because you are marinading your brain in the ‘Jew Hatred’ sauce). Ben Bernanke was the Chairman of the Fed, which does NOT have any fiscal spending authority. That function lies with Congress and the office of the POTUS; which is precisely why it was the President, FDR, who instituted the PWA.

    If you bothered to carefully read my post :

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-iranian-threat/#comment-1081316

    You would have seen that I wrote:

    If you are looking for anyone to blame, I should point squarely in the direction of our Congress, the fiscal authority, which totally abrogated its duty to engage in infrastructure investments, so needed (and not the least for the employment it could have generated) and so cheaply financeable during the same period! All for the benefit of partisan politics.

    So therefore it is critical to understand that the Fed DOES NOT have any fiscal authority. It can under its mandate, be a lender of last resort to commercial banks, and prevent a banking system collapse, which is precisely what it did do in 2008. Blame the Congress and the POTUS for not doing anything close to necessary for the level of infrastructure spending. In fact Ben Bernanke told this to Congress many a time during his sessions. (I can’t find the best one, but here is a short video where Bernanke is proposing fiscal stimulus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MudqljbwEI

    Your comments nevertheless, are evidencing correct intuition. Our next President and Congress (if the U.S. public had half a brain) should be picked on nothing else but a pledge to greatly expand public infrastructure, which can be financed now at a historically low 10-year locked cost of about 2% p.a. and would generate very likely a return in excess of 10% p.a – in other words it would be self-financing!

  62. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    re “Thus we avoided the second depression.”
    Depends on who “we” is.
    YOU out of a job is “avoiding a depression.”
    ME out of a job is a depression.

    (ME is not personal, it’s abstract. I’m gainfully employed, thanks,)

    LOL.

    I am reading this little snippet for a second time, and, if it is intentional, you are implying that if I (Sam) were to be unemployed, you (S2C) would avoid a depression (perhaps psychological?)

    If that is indeed the case, I am afraid I could tell you about my circumstances and consign you to a permanent state of unhappiness. But i shan’t.

    And I am truly happy that you are gainfully employed.

  63. @Sam Shama

    Sam – thank you for the post, there is a lot here to think over. I do not have the economics background to debate the issue, as Ron Paul could, but I think some of your reasoning may be questionable.

    “The question that we ought to ask, is what would any other asset, if it were held instead of a dollar bill, return (in the form of dividends or income) during the same period. “

    The dollar is not commodity backed, and thus it is not an asset, its value can only be judged by its purchasing power:
    Graph of purchasing power of dollar 1913 – 2013

    “The graph below shows the purchasing power of the US dollar since 1913. 1913 is when the Federal Reserve, which is actually a privately-owned central bank, took over the US banking system. As you can see, it’s been pretty much downhill since the Fed took over. In fact, the dollar has lost over 96% of its value. That means today’s dollar would be worth less than 4 cents back in 1913.”

    [MORE]

    What is meaningful to ask, is the question, what can an hour’s worth of wages purchase for the citizen (food, clothing, housing, iMacs, iPhones, etc). To that end, the index of real hourly wages, calculated by the St. Louis Fed can offer cogent insight.

    I looked at the graph, but I am not sure it is relevant. First it only goes back to 1965, not 1913, second I do not trust data from the FED and third we are talking about devaluation of the dollar not hourly wages.

    The bureau of labor statistic Consumer Price Index Inflation calculator would seem to be more relevant (again I don’t trust their data) and they show that $00.24 in 1913 would purchase what $1.00 purchases in 2015.

    We are closer to agreement on the second point, so on to the third:
    Fractional Reserve Banking and the control of a ‘Global Central Bank Cabal’.

    “It is a non-detachable part of our western capitalist model”
    Actually it is quite detachable, we got along fine without it until 1913.

    “It does have an important role, in that together with the Treasury, it acts in the best interest of the United States in maintaining global price stability and U.S. employment together with protecting the Dollar’s premier Reserve Currency status.”
    The Fed acts in the best interest of its investors, assigning it any fealty to the U.S. is wishful thinking. In 2010, as part of the Dodd-Frank bill, Congress authorized a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve’s activities during the financial crisis of 2008. The audit revealed that between 2007 and 2008 the Federal Reserve loaned over $16 trillion — more than four times the annual budget of the United States — to foreign central banks and politically-influential private companies.”

    The fed has been printing money to cover the fact that the same people that control the money supply have been moving our manufacturing, technology and capital offshore. All we will have left when they pull the rug out is the debt.

    This is the end game of the international banking system, they inflate the money supply – people borrow to invest in assets, they deflate the money supply and take the assets, leaving the people with the debt.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  64. Sam Shama says:
    @Existential Confusion

    I have to break off here. Speak about this tomorrow.

    cheers

  65. KA says:

    “We’re going to push and push until some larger force makes us stop.”

    David Addington, the legal adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney, made that declaration to Jack Goldsmith of the Office of Legal Counsel in the months after September 11, 2001. Goldsmith would later recall that Cheney and Addington were the first people he had ever met of a certain kind: “Cheney is not subtle, and he has never hidden the ball. The amazing thing is that he does what he says. Relentlessness is a quality I saw in him and Addington that I never saw before in my life.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bromwich/playing-the-long-game-on-iran_b_8028918.html

    This kind mindset can only bring disaster to the citizen of the country who accept,tolerate,and condone the behaviors of homicidal coward draft dodging people in charge.
    Sooner or later a larger force will come and run the thugs out of the town.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  66. Rurik says:
    @Existential Confusion

    I agree, but this barely touches on the evil perpetrated by the Fed.

    it is the very Eye of Mordor for most of the evil in the world

    the ring of power held by the few demonic men who use the wealth created by the Fed to enslave the people of the planet

    it is a betrayal of biblical proportions

    it was founded to protect the value of the dollar and has done the exact opposite since its inception

    there will never be any hope for a free future for mankind as long as the Fed exists

    Perhaps the main reason Ron Paul is the greatest statesman of our time is because not only did he understand this, but he tried to do something about it

  67. Rurik says:
    @Deduction

    You’re not only comparing Gitmo to auschwitz but you’re even implying that it is worse. That’s beyond nuts.

    yes it’s worse

    because it is raw evil for the sake of it

    evil isn’t evil because of how many people are murdered or genocided

    evil is evil because of the motivation(s) of the people perpetrating it

    whether there are sixty million victims or six million or six

    and it absolutely has nothing whatsoever to do with the particular ethnicity of the victims or how blond the villains are, as the shoah religion would have us believe

    General Sheridan was just as guilty as Himmler who was just as guilty as bomber Harris who is just as guilty as Dick Cheney

    it is the racial supremacists who demand that their particular tribe were or are more special or worthy than other victims of evil

    and that my obnoxious friend is racist and crazy

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
  68. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    I don’t much care for arguments that traverse the spectrum from condemning the entire population of Jews for causing the agony of Palestinians while blithely excusing the complicity of the German citizenry during WWII!

    my emphasis

    who does that?

    is that a straw man? You should know better than that Sam

    while our darling Nazi machineries were simply under a spell

    not sure what you’re talking about, and I’m not SC

    The Fed did not cause the Great Depression. It was the stock market collapse leading to a widespread loss of confidence and collapsing Aggregate Demand in the economy that caused the Depression.

    do the research

    they caused it

    unless you can produce any scientific (by which I mean an econometric study, and not circular praxeology), evidence, I think I will be rather content my current ignorance of the Fed, such as it is.

    just look at what the Fed did in 2008

    they made money super cheap to their member banksters and blew up the sub-prime and derivatives bubble that had to pop

    just like what they’re doing today with the stock market bubble

    it’s right in front of our faces

  69. Rurik says:
    August 24, 2015 at 4:06 am GMT • 200 Words

    @Sam Shama
    I don’t much care for arguments that traverse the spectrum from condemning the entire population of Jews for causing the agony of Palestinians while blithely excusing the complicity of the German citizenry during WWII!

    my emphasis

    who does that?

    is that a straw man? You should know better than that Sam

    while our darling Nazi machineries were simply under a spell

    not sure what you’re talking about, and I’m not SC

    I am John Galt SC.

    Strawman may be the best customary label for the tactic: rather than address the argument as presented, Shamanites blow it up to ludicrous proportions then claim that the argument is, fundamentally, one of bigotry.

    Notice that when the Shamanite was called upon, twice, to refute two specific questions related to the alleged holocaust of Jewish people which his grandmother “survived” and for which she “utterly despises Germans,” the Shamanite refused to- or was incapable of – or unable to- respond, because an authentic, reality-based response would have undermined the entire foundation of zionism’s raison d’être and, indeed, of the very identity of so many Jewish people such as Shama’s grandmother.

    The above is an example of how Sam Shamanites argue — how they must argue. That is, it is an indication of how the Shamanites have walled themselves off from confronting the realities cited, lest the entire foundation of their identity be shattered. If the Shamanites’s grandmothers did not have Germans to hate, where would they direct that emotion, and what would replace that emotion as the center of gravity of their being?

    If she, and Sam Shama, truthfully confronted those two questions, about who was actually starved, abused and incinerated, not even Dostoevsky could trace the torment that must possess the mind of a person who has even the most basic claim to a moral compass.

    • Replies: @rurik
  70. annamaria says:
    @KA

    “Sooner or later a larger force will come and run the thugs out of the town.”

    The sad thing is, the larger force could run out not the thugs only but the innocent bystanders as well. There is a small consolation, though, that thanks to the internet, this human scum has been exposed for what they are. Because of the obvious genetic trait, the families of these homicidal cowards must be observed for eternity.

  71. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    in reality, not in fantasmagoria as ludicrous as tales of soap and lampshades made from Jewish skin, and of gas chambers masquerading as showers or vice versa. German people really were incinerated.

    somehow when you say ‘incinerated’, it sounds to me like simply cremating the dead

    I’d prefer the more illustrative expression; burned alive. Because that is what they wanted to do. And that is what they did. Just like what their moral equivalent- the thugs of ISIS did to that Jordanian pilot. Or what Clinton did to those people in that church in Waco.

    Burning the German civilians alive was very much a calculated decision of sadism since the war was already virtually won, so they did it out of raw, savage cruelty. (little girls running through the streets with their hair on fire and consuming their faces in deaths of unimaginable horror must have put gnarled and satisfied smiles on the faces of these men) The victims weren’t pilots who were on bombing raids, but women and children and refugees fleeing for their lives from the red army. I don’t think even the sub-humans of ISIS would burn a little girl alive to satisfy some special need of their unique psyche.

    Like slow starvation deliberately imposes for the excruciating death it causes such as with the 1930s Ukrainian peasants or Arminian Christians before that, burning the German civilians alive in places like Dresden satisfied something dark within the soul of the hopelessly vicious.

    And, for the record, it wasn’t just Jews who imposed these horrible deaths upon so many, but the leadership of the Brits and Yanks too. Just like today.

    in exchange for which he was granted the Balfour declaration.

    I’m assuming you’ve read Benjamin Freedman’s speech

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  72. Rurik says:
    @KA

    Getting Iraq wrong wasn’t just an unfortunate miscalculation, it happened because their theories of world politics were dubious

    but Iraq didn’t turn out wrong from their perspective

    it turned out exactly the way they wanted and intended it to

    Iraq is a disaster and a hell on earth

    and just like with Afghanistan and Libya and Syria and everywhere else they go, it is from their perspective a perfect success!

    In particular, neoconservatives tend to believe that what’s good for Israel is good for the United States — and vice versa — which is why they see no conflict between their attachment to Israel and their loyalty to the United States

    neoconservatives couldn’t give a flying fuck what’s good for the United States

    all they care about is what is good for Israel or for themselves, depending on if they’re cut from the Jewish Zionist cloth or the opportunistic goy, respectively

    they’ve all eagerly and happily gotten young American boys and girls ground up in the Middle East meat grinder and don’t give two rips about the ones that are returning home with shattered souls. They love it that they’re offing themselves at epidemic numbers. It’s cheaper that way. Such a deal!

    • Replies: @annamaria
  73. rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    lest the entire foundation of their identity be shattered. If the Shamanites’s grandmothers did not have Germans to hate, where would they direct that emotion, and what would replace that emotion as the center of gravity of their being?

    I’m not an expert on Judaism, but from what I’ve glimmered there is a fundamental core belief of a perpetual victimhood. A belief that from the beginnings of time, the long suffering and uniquely divine Jews have been relentlessly persecuted by hostile if not down right evil tribes of Canaanites and Philistines and assorted bovine gentiles. And the reason they’re always persecuted is because they are divine. Because they were chosen by God as His people, and He put them here to rule and “subdue” the lessor tribes.

    It is a recipe for hostility. But it’s also one that has always benefited the rabbis and the Pharisees of yesterday and today. Because it buoys their coffers and reinforces their position as middle man between the poor put-upon Jew in a hostile world of untermenschen who hate the Jew for being successful and prosperous and ~ divine. So the shekels flow upstream. And the whole charade becomes a circle. Much like the Christian charlatans do with their flocks protecting them from satan or the “defense” contractors do as they foment wars and “enemies” for those of us in the West to always$ be at war. It’s all just the eternal scheme for the shepherds to fleece their flocks.

    “if God didn’t want them sheared He would not have made them sheep”

  74. @Rurik

    SC is something of a maximalist, Rurik, and also is focused less on the Palestinian issue (which is a moral outrage of the greatest magnitude) and more on issues of zionist involvement in US policy, which has become extended to US crimes against humanity beginning with Wilson, hitting a peak with FDR and US-zionist/Jewish commission of a holocaust of the German people, which G H W Bush cited as the template for his invasion of Iraq in 1991 which, of course, moved the US imperial agenda from Europe to the Middle East. SC draws a direct line from what Allies (including Jews) perpetrated in Germany to Anglo zionist acts in Iraq etc. to Anglo zionist intentions toward Iran.

    Yes, SC has read/heard Benjamin Freedman, but that was just the hors d’oeuvre. Having found no way to double-check Freedman, SC searched for other sources that simultaneously substantiated the claims Freedman made and filled out more of the story —

    “Accurate scholarship will unearth the whole offense —-“.

    Being a maximalist and one who insists on an accurate understanding of history lest, like Croesus, we misinterpret the oracle and lose our own nation (or soul), SC quibbles with some of your statements:

    Just like what their moral equivalent- the thugs of ISIS did to that Jordanian pilot. Or what Clinton did to those people in that church in Waco.
    Burning the German civilians alive was very much a calculated decision of sadism since the war was already virtually won,

    What ISIS did to the Jordanian pilot and the Waco event were ‘one-offs,’ they are not a “moral equivalent” to the firebombing of Germany and Japan. The instrumentality was the same — death by fire — but the intentionality; the deliberateness of the firebombing campaign; the “malice aforethought;” the scale — combine to make the fire bombings of Germany and Japan the most egregious act of planned, industrialized slaughter of civilians in all recorded history.

    The statement, “the war was already virtually won,” suggests that you are referring to the bombing of Dresden, but that was just the capstone. The firebombing of German cities was planned before the war started — Henry Morgenthau, Jr. and FDR got together in early October 1938** to commission the plants to manufacture the planes; early in 1939 FDR signed an executive order to create a research facility at Dugway to explore means of “chemical and biological warfare against Germany.” The British created a similar facility whose name escapes me. Between May and Sept. 1940 Churchill sent numerous bombing raids over Berlin calculated to provoke a German response, which the Germans resisted for several months. When the German air force finally retaliated to British air raids, Churchill got what he needed to gain the sympathy of Americans and draw USA into the war. The western Allies carried out firebombing raids over Germany between 1940 and 1945, destroying 131 German cities — 75% of Germany’s built infrastructure; 7 million German civilians were “de-housed;” 600,000 German civilians were exterminated. In his book, “The Fire: The Fire Bombing of Germany , 1940 – 1945,” Jörg Friedrich quotes a 1944 US defense report to the effect that “casualties were far fewer than the 1 million to 2 million that had been anticipated.”

    You wrote:

    Like slow starvation deliberately imposes for the excruciating death it causes such as with the 1930s Ukrainian peasants or Arminian Christians before that, burning the German civilians alive in places like Dresden satisfied something dark within the soul of the hopelessly vicious.

    The thing is, Rurik, and what Americans (I’m American) and the British (who I doubt have the moral capacity) and Jews must confront is that the deliberate starvations of Germans in WWI (and also the starvation of Iranians in WWI and WWII, during which about 40% of Iran’s population died — Iran was neutral but occupied in both wars); the starvation of Indians under Churchill’s orders, etc.; and the planned and deliberate extermination of German and Japanese civilian populations and their built infrastructure were strategically planned and carried out by those in the highest positions of leadership in the “most civilized” of “Christian” and “democratic” nations.

    These crimes against humanity were intentionally carried out, “with malice aforethought,” by the leaders of powerful nations, not by “deranged” or “mentally ill” or desperate, otherwise powerless individuals or groups.

    They have been systematically and zealously covered up and even excused as “moral” by spokesmen for those nations who receive the approbation of their nations for carrying out their acts of protecting the crimes. — the reference here is to such persons as British moral philosopher A. C. Grayling; Sir Max Hastings, British journalist-turned-historian; and American national security advisor and professor of law Philip Bobbitt (nephew of LBJ and himself a descendant of early American colonists).
    One point that should be absorbed from those three references is that it is not “the Jews” who are solely culpable for the holocaust of the German people, although it must not be overlooked that Jewish persons were active at every step of the planning and prosecution of the war against the German people. Anglo elites have just as critical an interest in sustaining the fraudulent Shoah narrative as do zionists.

    One more thought — SC has been warned numerous times to stay away from “holocaust denial.”
    Got the message. Even understand some of the reasoning behind it, on the part of good people who are tireless advocates for better US policy; justice for Palestine; etc. They consider attacks on the Jewish holocaust narrative an unnecessary provocation of an extremely controversial issue that will only provide a means of instant delegitimization. Understood.

    On the other hand —
    As Thomas Fleming has argued, the history has not yet matured to the point where it can be written objectively; what we are told of WWII is emotion-laden, as reflected in Sam Shama’s grandmother’s reactions.
    A great nation cannot proceed, or succeed, on a falsified understanding of its own acts.

    It’s a dirty job, but someone has to create fissures for reality to bubble up and cleanse the communal mind, or as our friend Geokat62 might say, for “the mind to ascend to reality.”

    ** note the date well: Oct. 1938 — just after Britain and France acquiesced to the Munich Agreement and just before Herschel Grynszpan assassinated the German foreign officer vom Rath, which, according to USHMM, caused Nazi command to plan Kristallnacht. Does it strike you as implausible that NSDAP would plan and carry out a pogrom just at the time when Germany had achieved a nonviolent resolution of a vexing problem, and gained British and French buy-in to the deal?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  75. annamaria says:
    @Rurik

    “but Iraq didn’t turn out wrong from their [neocons’] perspective, it turned out exactly the way they wanted and intended it to”
    Correct

  76. Da-Mith says:
    @Mark Green

    I agree. Without direct reference to the Zionist Agenda the article is just a waste of time.

  77. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    focused less on the Palestinian issue (which is a moral outrage of the greatest magnitude) and more on issues of zionist involvement in US policy, which has become extended to US crimes against humanity …

    The Germans suffered their atrocities yesterday, the Iranians also yesterday and tomorrow, but the Palestinians are suffering it today. If we can save the Pals, we might also be able to save those slated as their next victims, the Iranians, the Russians, all of us.

    Just like what their moral equivalent- the thugs of ISIS did to that Jordanian pilot. Or what Clinton did to those people in that church in Waco.
    Burning the German civilians alive was very much a calculated decision of sadism since the war was already virtually won,

    What ISIS did to the Jordanian pilot and the Waco event were ‘one-offs,’ they are not a “moral equivalent” to the firebombing of Germany and Japan. The instrumentality was the same — death by fire — but the intentionality; the deliberateness of the firebombing campaign; the “malice aforethought;” the scale — combine to make the fire bombings of Germany and Japan the most egregious act of planned, industrialized slaughter of civilians in all recorded history.

    I agree that the scale is relevant and also the intention to genocide makes it more despicable. But for me, you can do those things without doing them in the most cruel ways imaginable; like slow starvation or burning alive. If you were to grab an eight year old girl or boy off the Streets of Dresden, and put them in an ISIS cage, and let them contemplate what you’re about to do to them, and then set them on fire and watch them scream as they burned up, or let them languish in that cage until they slowly starved to death, now you’re starting to get an understanding of the kind of people who did and who do these things.

    deliberate extermination of German and Japanese civilian populations and their built infrastructure were strategically planned and carried out by those in the highest positions of leadership in the “most civilized” of “Christian” and “democratic” nations.

    These crimes against humanity were intentionally carried out, “with malice aforethought,” by the leaders of powerful nations, not by “deranged” or “mentally ill” or desperate, otherwise powerless individuals or groups.

    but you’re still hung up on scale

    we don’t have to look that far back to find the exact same mentality as the ones who burned German children alive.

    they did the same thing in Waco, TX only few years ago, and the couple who occupied the White House at the time are on the verge of returning

    I recently watched a video of Waco and they have infrared videos of machine gun fire being directed at the only exit to the burning building where apparently there were dozens of people found murdered by the county coroner who were piled up trying to get out. (as you can imagine)

    They wanted those people to die as horribly as it’s possible to die. To suffer what I consider unimaginable pain and with the knowledge that the men and women in their government (the ones charged and paid and trusted to protect these very people) were the ones who were now very deliberately burning them and their children alive. I still can’t wrap my mind around that level of evil. It is literally incomprehensible, but that is the mindset we’re dealing with, whether they’re dropping gelled gasoline on city streets or running a torture camp or shooting men, women and children trying to escape the flames from a church they had just set on fire.

    They consider attacks on the Jewish holocaust narrative an unnecessary provocation of an extremely controversial issue that will only provide a means of instant delegitimization. Understood.

    On the other hand —

    I get that

    I get that the Shoah racket has run its course for many people. And for those who understand that much of what we’ve been told about it were bald-faced lies, it particularly riles because it was the Germans in particular that did suffer so many real holocausts in the very definition of the word. There again, that is one of the things that so many people are disgusted by – the way they blame the victim for what they themselves have- and are perpetrating. They had a plan and intention to literally genocide the German people off the planet for all eternity. Even by castration.

    And there is zero evidence that the Nazis had any such intention to do this to the Jews. If they had, then why did they go to the expense of trying to get the Jewish people to emigrate? Why did they fill a ship with Jews and send them to America? Why did they collaborate with the Zionists in getting so many to go to Palestine if they intended to genocide them all? And if six million perished, then how is it possible that there were more Jews alive after the war was over than when it began? So I suspect there were no homicidal gas chambers in the work camps, and that the only real death camps run during or after WWII were the ones Eisenhower ran for German POWs (mostly teenage boys). So there again, they blame the victim for doing what they themselves actually did. Just like the way they blame the Palestinians for terrorism when that is what they visit on the Pals every single day. It’s monstrous when you think about it.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  78. @Rurik

    I think we understand things pretty much on the same level, Rurik, especially the incapacity of the human mind — the genuine human struggle — to absorb and contemplate the monstrosity of it all.
    (I do not by any means dismiss the terrible suffering of the Palestinian people and the necessity of fighting for justice for them. What I meant is that I know less about the details of that injustice –i.e. the various ‘peace processes’ than I do about other devastated or threatened peoples,, esp. Iran.)

    Once the mind has been awakened to the brutality of it there is no turning back, no return to life-as-normal, no way to say, “this doesn’t concern me, I’m going to the beach; I’m going to have a cookout with friends” — That life is over once you gain an awareness of the evil that has been perpetrated and that is going on and that is contemplated. It is so horrible that it is never not on the mind.

    The men (& women) who speak out on this forum — Phil Giraldi, (Alison Weir), Petras, Saker, Buchanan (sort of) & others– are heroes and models.

    I’ve posted elsewhere on Unz (the Petras article, I think) why I believe the Iran Deal is a sham, is one more step in the grand strategy of the Anglo zionists to destroy Iran.

    Among other things, the Iran deal is NOT good for Palestine — see Simin Royanian (video from ~2009)–

    and her analysis of the Iran agreement
    http://women4peace.org/our_articles/2015-07-29_on_us_iran_agreement.html

    —>

    So, in the 2009 election, the class struggle was represented as between, on the one hand, a pro-Ahmadinejad faction (mostly poor working-class from outside Tehran), and on the other hand, a pro-Mousavi faction or the Greens, mostly urban upper-class youth and the neoliberal capitalists (the symbolism of the green color being interpreted in this social context as the color of Islam, not the environment).
    This movement was clearly pro-Imperialist, since the slogans included death to China and death to Russia and no more money for Palestine. This was the first time in Iranian history where anti-Palestine slogans had appeared. While Russia and China had nothing to do with the Iranian elections, the US was extremely involved in promoting the Greens and condemning Ahmadinejad’s government. The US was hoping for a win by Moussavi, and Obama promised to begin talks with Iran after elections. When the Greens lost, the US attacks on Iran increased and the elections were called invalid. . . .

    [Implementation of the Iran deal will result in]

    Decrease in actual support by Iran for liberation movements in Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, and military and political support for the governments of Syria and Iraq. Under the current political atmosphere where the power struggle between revolutionary forces and the pro-west neoliberals has not ended in complete victory for the latter, this outcome, which is one of the main objectives of the US, cannot be easily and openly implemented. The possibility of this outcome increases gradually as the revolutionary, nationalist and anti-Imperialist forces in Iran lose power.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @KA
  79. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    monstrosity of it all.

    I had a hard time with it at first

    it is difficult to grasp and accept

    I’m not obsessed with the Palestinians any more than the Syrians whose children are murdered by chemical weapons provided by my government or the men at Gitmo who’re being tortured by my government. I just see the Pals as particularly tragic because it’s been going on for so long and their daily humiliations seem intolerable. It’s no wonder a few of them want to strap on a bomb if only to kill just one of their hated tormentors.

    I started posting here because I wanted to chime in on the Ukrainian conflict. I wanted to be at least one tiny voice for sanity as the world seemed to be on the brink of nuclear madness. I wanted to tell the Russians to back off with their bluster over defeating the fascists 70 yrs ago. Stop antagonizing the Baltic States and the Ukrainians. I wanted to tell the rightwing Ukrainians that looking to the EU as their future was foolish beyond words. That if Putin’s Russia was heavy-handed and corrupt, then they have no idea what heavy-handed and corrupt was until the bankers of NY and London got done with them.

    Those were my main reasons for coming here. But now that I’ve put my toe in the water, I’m enjoying the education I’m getting. You’re right, there are some smart people here. It’s fun.

    Cheers

  80. Deduction says:

    the incapacity of the human mind — the genuine human struggle — to absorb and contemplate the monstrosity of it all

    You’re arguing that you have the symptoms of PTSD. Worse, you’re arguing that you got them via the news second-hand.

    You are clearly very fragile. No wonder you cannot accept the challenge of complexity.

    Do you find that you are always the victim of other people? That you always put them before yourself? That when you’re alone you feel impossibly empty? And that you desperately don’t want to be abandoned?

    These are very serious issues. It means that you will have the habit of seeing the world in black and white and fixating and obsessing on relatively minor things. Essentially you misperceived everything around you but it feels hyper real.

    I understand that talking about the Jews and conspiracies makes you feel alive and, for a moment, forget the emptiness inside. Everyone feels it.

    But to let it dominate you so completely as to give you PTSD is where it becomes a disorder.

    My advice is to think of hypothesises that could disprove your theories. Then try to disprove then in your normal life.

    You might visit a Reform synagogue and socialise with the people there. Or you might visit Israel and the West Bank. Or even, you might visit a really chaotic country in order to get some perspective.

    What’s the worst that can happen? That you’ll change your mind?

    I cannot recommend enough, if you’re in the grip of a really feverish belief, that you go out, as honestly as you can, and test it.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  81. @Deduction

    lol

    my shrink rolled on the floor laughing at your long-distance analysis.

    I must say he was a tad fearful that I might take your advice and stop consulting people who actually know what the hell they are talking about. but only for two seconds between bouts of laughter.

    not to worry sez I. bunch of us at work one lunch-break did a cost-benefit analysis: shrinks are still cheaper than synagogues.

    re travel to israel: couldn’t get in, what with the Iran stamp in my passport.
    suppose I could get a new one, but it’s really not worth the money. Ain’t it funny: an Iran-stamped passport will get you into China, Russia, Brazil, Turkey, Italy — just about anywhere in the world, except israel. another cost-benefit no-brainer: i can’t think of anyplace less inviting to travel to than pisrael.

    on the other hand, I wonder if a passport is required to join a flotilla like the Mavi Marmara? That’s in the bucket-list

    • Replies: @Deduction
  82. Deduction says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    my shrink rolled on the floor laughing at your long-distance analysis.

    As long as you are in treatment…

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  83. KA says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Iran project is on hold . Final solution will take shape in second year of next administration. Iran is duped. No different in the wording of the scripts between the Libya and Iran .

    Sibel Edmonds gives 2 to 3 yrs of shelf life to detente between Iran and US/West controlled by Zionist.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/sibel-edmonds-isis-is-us/

    Question is what will be the Pearl Harbor to trigger it?
    BTW , Israel was warned by Kerry or by Biden not to do another USS Liberty.
    We will see.

  84. @Deduction

    laughter is the best medicine.

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