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Why Are We in Ukraine?
Historically and even today, Russia has much in common with Ukraine—the United States, almost nothing.
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For centuries and still today, Russia and large parts of Ukraine have had much in common—a long territorial border; a shared history; ethnic, linguistic, and other cultural affinities; intimate personal relations; substantial economic trade; and more. Even after the years of escalating conflict between Kiev and Moscow since 2014, many Russians and Ukrainians still think of themselves in familial ways. The United States has almost none of these commonalities with Ukraine.

Which is also to say that Ukraine is not “a vital US national interest,” as most leaders of both parties, Republican and Democrat alike, and much of the US media now declare. On the other hand, Ukraine is a vital Russian interest by any geopolitical or simply human reckoning.

Why, then, is Washington so deeply involved in Ukraine? (The proposed nearly $400 million in US military aid to Kiev would mean, of course, even more intrusive involvement.) And why is Ukraine so deeply involved in Washington, in a different way, that it has become a pretext for attempts to impeach President Donald Trump?

The short but essential answer is Washington’s decision, taken by President Bill Clinton in the 1990s, to expand NATO eastward from Germany and eventually to Ukraine itself. Ever since, both Democrats and Republicans have insisted that Ukraine is a “vital US national interest.” Those of us who opposed that folly warned it would lead to dangerous conflicts with Moscow, conceivably even war. Imagine Washington’s reaction, we pointed out, if Russian military bases began to appear on Canada’s or Mexico’s borders with America. We were not wrong: An estimated 13,000 souls have already died in the Ukrainian-Russian war in the Donbass and some 2 million people have been displaced.

Things are likely to get worse. Democrats are sharply criticizing Trump for withholding large-scale military aid to Kiev (even though President Obama, despite strong pressure, wisely did so). Ukraine’s recently elected President Volodymyr Zelensky, having been drawn into the Washington scandal, is no longer as free to negotiate peace with Russian leader Vladimir Putin as he hoped and promised during his campaign. And candidates for the 2020 US Democratic presidential nomination, with the exception of Tulsi Gabbard, are likely to compete for the role of Kiev’s biggest military booster. Here, as generally in US-Russian relations, Democrats are becoming a war party.

Meanwhile, as I have reported before, Russian leader Vladimir Putin continues to be accused by hard-liners in Moscow of passivity in the face of “American aggression in Ukraine.” Is it irony or tragedy that the often-maligned Trump and Putin may stand between us and something much worse—between a fragile Cold War peace and the war parties in their respective countries?

 

(Republished from The Nation by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    The short but essential answer is Washington’s decision, taken by President Bill Clinton in the 1990s, to expand NATO eastward from Germany and eventually to Ukraine itself.

    Too simplistic.

    Things are likely to get worse.

    Yes.

  2. Lot says:

    Agree with every word.

    Americans don’t need to love Russia, but we must respect it. Ukraine is its backyard.

    • Agree: Exile, Gall, Kolya Krassotkin
    • Disagree: Malacaay
  3. About twenty years ago, breakup off Russia was advocated openly, for example by Brzezinski.

    I would guess that’s still the long term goal.

  4. @Undocumented Shopper

    I would guess that’s still the long term goal.

    Kissinger confirmed (or rather reaffirmed it) in his interview to The National Interest

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-interview-henry-kissinger-13615

    The problem, however, is with the fact that the United States has neither resources nor status anymore to do either:

    Kissinger: If we treat Russia seriously as a great power, we need at an early stage to determine whether their concerns can be reconciled with our necessities. We should explore the possibilities of a status of nonmilitary grouping on the territory between Russia and the existing frontiers of NATO.

    That’s the danger, remove last remaining military and intelligence professionals and you have ignorant, grossly incompetent American political class which thinks that it is 1995.

  5. peterAUS says:

    About twenty years ago, breakup off Russia was advocated openly, for example by Brzezinski.

    The Grand Chessboard.

    I would guess that’s still the long term goal.

    Yep.

  6. Exile says:

    The fact that both Trump and Putin have managed to keep the peace is laudable and somewhat surprising, particularly on our side given the comparative pressure the Israel lobby can exert on Trump politically and personally vs. Putin.

    Thanks to Ron & the many anti-US-Russia-Ukraine war writers here at Unz over the years including Pat Buchanan, Paul Craig Roberts, Ron Paul, Phil Giraldi, Caitlyn Johnstone, C.J. Hopkins and The Saker, among others.

    Russia is the only nation on Earth with the undisputable power to permanently cripple the United States with nuclear weapons. A nuclear exchange between these nations would do serious damage to the world ecosphere for decades if not centuries.

    Short of defending against a full-scale invasion of United States territory the United States has no justified interest in provoking or engaging in such an exchange.

    The entire Ukraine is not worth the bones of one American infantryman.

    The people in Washington and Tel Aviv who are playing these games with potentially millions of American & Russian lives are psychopaths who in a sane world would be tried for war crimes for the acts they have already committed, much less those they contemplate or risk setting in motion.

  7. @Andrei Martyanov

    The problem, however, is with the fact that the United States has neither resources nor status anymore to do either:

    I would add that if Russia were broken up, then very likely China and not the United States would capture the mineral wealth of Siberia. This would be a geopolitical blunder of biblical proportions, comparable to Germany’s decision to sponsor Lenin’s sealed train voyage.

    [Digression: Andrei, I read your blog and I agree about Russian Math and Physics cirriculum. I followed a similar cirriculum in Poland and I got into MIT easily. Я согласен]

  8. Guessing it’s because that dastardly Putin wanted Russia’s share of tax receipts from the looting oligarchs and their western backers during the pillaging 90s. Bankers and financiers lives matter more then the common good. So does the Clinton slush fund So Hillary got her vengeance on Vlad by doing an Ukrainian coup, and sending her best like Brett Kimberlin, Victoria Nuland, and Jonathan Winer. Unfortunately the sneaky Putin kept Crimea and its port on the Black Sea.

    The gall of it all. With all the Hong Kong real estate woes, HSBC needs Russian money laundering moolah. More are becoming aware of Bill Browder’s Magnitsky Act con. Plus Hillary’s appetite for payoffs is insatiable. Basically no clue why we’re in the Ukraine other than the Clintons. Trump really should have at least one of them up. Instead he’s facing a bogus impeachment. Good news is we might be geting rid of Joe Biden, and the nuke weapon makers are getting richer. Wonder where that missing 1998 4.8 billion dollarFederal Reserve/ IMF loan to Russia ever got too?

    https://jimmysllama.com/2017/11/10/10269/

  9. @Undocumented Shopper

    comparable to Germany’s decision to sponsor Lenin’s sealed train voyage.

    While I disagree with this assessment–it was just an episode against the background of a complete collapse of Russia, even none other than Solzhenitsyn admits that Bolsheviks merely picked the power up from the street where it was laying because nobody realistically wanted it, I have to say that in terms of consequences of Russia breaking up, you are absolutely spot on. In such a scenario the main beneficiary will be China and it will be easy for it.

    Andrei, I read your blog and I agree about Russian Math and Physics cirriculum. I followed a similar cirriculum in Poland

    In general what is known as Socialist Camp–STEM education was extremely good, I know Germans, Poles and Czechs, among others, who also were the “products” of this education and yes, they had no problems navigating US higher-ed.

  10. A123 says:

    The short answer is anti-Christian Globalism.

    Pitting the Christian (Protestant) U.S. against Christian (Orthodox) Russia serves the needs of Dhimmi Globalism. Both sides are limited in their ability to resist Muslim efforts at replacing Christians if they cannot unify against the IslamoGlobalist invaders.

    The Biden family, Kerry family, and Dhimmi Soros family all have business investments in Ukraine that will only make money if they are able to keep responsible Christians out of office. If Trump can clear the Dhimmi Deep State hurdles, investigations and impeachment, hopefully this flow of money to suppress Ukrainian Christians will be shut off.

    PEACE 😇

  11. Begemot says:
    @peterAUS

    Too simplistic.

    Your analysis.

    Yes.

  12. @peterAUS

    Too simplistic.

    Not really, just out of focus. NATO is Israel’s bitch/attack dog. Israel is owned by the Rothschilds, The Rothschilds got tossed from the USSR. They regained Russia through Yeltsin. Putin pushed back against the Rothschild front oligarchs, and now they want it back.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  13. peterAUS says:
    @A123

    Dhimmi Soros family…

    Guys, guys…what’s going on?! You are, recently, slipping hard here. C’mon…we aren’t THAT dumb.

    So far you’ve done sterling work in the real world; keeping “normies” in check on the Internet too.
    But the crew here is…..slipping.

    Two options:
    1. You really take us here for dumb fucks. While there is some merit there, still……I mean, Soros as dhimmi?!?
    2. The team here has kept the same handles but the real people behind them are different guys. Temps hired for peanuts. So, if that, where have the real guys gone? And, more importantly, why?
    If I can venture an opinion I guess on focusing the effort on normies in the runup to the election.

    Anyway, please, tone that idiocy down. It’s bad form, really.

    • Replies: @A123
  14. El Dato says:

    It looks as if at least one Ukrainian “player” has taken a look at the smoking ruins of the Middle East and concluded that “friendly ouvertures” by US are just the on-ramp to a scenario where there will be much pissing on your robbed grave in a decade or so. A trial balloon to start a de-escalation vis-à-vis of Russia may have been launched.

  15. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    In general what is known as Socialist Camp–STEM education was extremely good, I know Germans, Poles and Czechs, among others, who also were the “products” of this education and yes, they had no problems navigating US higher-ed.

    And then they all flee to the U.S. to design and build computers, airplanes, missiles, etc., while their native lands try to remain barely 2nd world in STEM. 🤣

  16. Another important piece of the puzzle is NATO’s Strategic Concept, approved at the 1999 Washington Summit. It included for the first time “possibility of conducting non-Article 5 crisis response operations.” Since Article 5 refers to a response to a military attack against a member country, this single phrase changed NATO from a defensive alliance to an offensive one.

    This created a loophole. First, sponsor a separatist insurgency in a country you don’t like. When the government responds, claim that civilians are suffering. Mobilize the public opinion using photos of crying women (less than ten is enough, just show them frequently.) Follow up with accusations of “humanitarian crisis.” Claim that “genocide is unfolding” (this quote and the bogus claim of 100,000 dead Albanians was used in 1999). Frequently use the phrase “International Community”. Invade.

    This scenario was implemented against Yugoslavia and Libya. Had Al Gore won in 2000, Richard Holbroooke would become Secretary of State and he would use Chechnya as a pretext for intervention in Russia. It almost happened – Madeleine Albright asked Russia to permit presence of “observers” in Chechnya. Putin wisely refused, perhaps because he knew that “observers” in Kosovo were used to provide a pretext for war against Yugoslavia.

    Albright’s request happened soon after Nato permitted “non-Article 5 crisis response operations.”
    Few people realize how close we were to a repeat of Yugoslavia-style scenario being used to break up Russia.

    When Holbrooke died, I breathed a sigh of relief.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
    • Replies: @Malacaay
  17. peterAUS says:
    @Curmudgeon

    You believe it’s “The Rothschilds”.
    I believe it’s a BIT more complicated than that.

    I suggest we skip that debate here.

    At the moment the pressure is in three spots: Syria, Ukraine and Balkans.
    Or, why are “we” in Syria and Balkans, for example? Dumb question, of course.
    As why “we” are in Iraq, Afghanistan. Or Bulgaria. Or Japan. Or Italy. Or…whatever.
    Boring, in fact.

    Changing that fact, somehow, could be an interesting conversation. Granted, wouldn’t attract much traffic around here. One day, perhaps.

    Anyway, in my book, there was quite a development with deploying Bradleys in Syria.
    https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/10/31/bradleys-and-army-infantry-roll-into-syria-to-help-secure-oil-wells/

    As for Balkans there was a sort of PR (maybe more…..) counterpunch with:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-serbia-missiles/russia-sends-s-400-missile-defense-systems-to-serbia-for-military-drill-idUSKBN1X30VE

    Starting to feel as good old times. Cold war stuff.
    What a joy.

    • Replies: @Ted Heath
  18. JVC says:

    The question should be : Is there any little speck of land on the entire planet that isn’t of “strategic importance” to the fools that control the USG??

    • Replies: @TKK
    , @Haha
    , @alma
  19. Gall says:
    @Exile

    Exactly! The fact is that the Democratic establishment have lost any credibility with the Russia Scam so they are now working on the Ukraine angle an angle that is fraught with danger for them if it all comes out in the wash.

    Of course they’re too stupid to realize this.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  20. A123 says:
    @peterAUS

    The IslamoSoros is an ex-Jew, now totally dedicated to Islam and Jew extermination. That is why he is so dedicated to the genocidal BDS movement: (1)

    Israel released a list of 20 BDS-supporting organizations whose members will be banned from entering Israel due to their BDS activism, prominently featuring six American groups. At least four of the six BDS-promoting U.S. groups receive funding tied to Soros. Scores of other U.S. organizations that support the BDS movement are financed by Soros.

    The American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) is a central proponent of anti-Israel BDS activism on college campuses and in churches

    Globalism is against the Judeo-Christian God and his values. Which is why the IslamoSoros and Globalism go together so well.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/01/21/target-israel-george-soros-funded-groups-leading-bds-war-on-jewish-state/

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Troll: Z-man
  21. Gall says:
    @Undocumented Shopper

    “This would be a geopolitical blunder of biblical proportions, comparable to Germany’s decision to sponsor Lenin’s sealed train voyage.”

    Exactly. The reason they did that was because they feared Russia would open up a second front. A short sighted objective in the end because the Zionists managed to sucker America into fighting on the side of the Allies for the promise of their “promised land” in Palestine.

    Same with America embracing Ukraine since Putin isn’t going to follow the conventional rules of engagement since he doesn’t have to thanks to the US abrogating the treaty on Medium range nukes. If NATO makes its advance through Ukraine he’ll launch a nuclear counterstrike using tactical nukes.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  22. @Lot

    Americans don’t need to love Russia, but we must respect it. Ukraine is its backyard.

    Funny, I thought that was Siberia.
    And Sakhalin.
    And Armenia.
    And Belarus.
    And Kazakhstan.
    And Birobidzhan.
    How many backyards does it have?

    What would you say is Israel’s backyard?

  23. @Exile

    The people in Washington and Tel Aviv who are playing these games

    Don’t you mean to say Jaffa? Or Jerusalem? Then again it’s actually neither, so may as well.

    Russia is the only nation on Earth with the undisputable power to permanently cripple the United States with nuclear weapons.

    Say it ain’t so. It’s almost as if Israel is not the only one with a Samson(ov) Option? But I’m sure you’ll find a way to blame it on people in the wrong (((Capital))) Anyway.
    Israel’s nukes are a reason to take them away?
    Russia’s nukes are a reason to grab your ankles and hope for the best?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  24. I am not in Ukraine. Imperial Washington is in Ukraine as part of it’s project to rule the world by force of arms. I am in Texas minding my own business.

    • Replies: @Charles Carroll
  25. @Gall

    I see what you mean. But perhaps the Dems, or the powers behind them, are just concerned with getting rid of Trump and don’t mind if the scandal envelops Joe Biden too.

    They’d just be getting rid of the old “moderate” white guy and giving the nomination instead to a woman.

    They would have Warren or whoever’s baggage, and she’s not young either — but they wouldn’t have to suffer Creepy Joe’s more advanced age and apparent mental decline, his open touching of young girls, and his constant gaffes and lies/exaggerations.

  26. @Reality Cheque

    A map is useful for ascertaining which countries border Russia. Yes, there are many.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Tom Welsh
  27. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Reality Cheque, like his objet de culte Israel, doesn’t recognize borders.

  28. @Exile

    ‘The fact that both Trump and Putin have managed to keep the peace is laudable and somewhat surprising, particularly on our side given the comparative pressure the Israel lobby can exert on Trump politically and personally vs. Putin…’

    Get the feeling that maybe you’re solving this puzzle?

    What happens to the interest of US politicians in the Ukraine if Russia agrees to dump Syria?

  29. @Undocumented Shopper

    God willing, Brzezinski is in hell (with Teddy Kennedy, John McCain, Janet Reno and 90% of America’s other leaders).

    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @Twodees Partain
  30. @Reality Cheque

    ‘What would you say is Israel’s backyard?’

    Capitol Hill.

    • LOL: animalogic, Biff, Saggy
    • Replies: @bike-anarkist
  31. utu says:
    @Reality Cheque

    An old Soviet joke form radio Armenia series:

    Radio Armenia is asked: ‘With what countries does the USSR have a border?’” To which it replies, “with whatever countries it wants.”

    http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/2016/08/13-radio-armenia-jokes-from-soviet.html

    • Replies: @voicum
  32. PeterMX says:

    Yes, but the long answer is that a majority of Jews (with exception to the author perhaps and some others) now have a dog in this fight (or rather, many). It’s hard to believe, but 80 years after playing the leading role in having millions of Ukrainians murdered in the 1930’s, after founding the Soviet Union, Jews now dominate Ukraine, not just with oligarchs but with politicians elected to the highest office(s) in the land. They now have their second Jewsh president in a row, the first being part Jewish. The top positions of the gov’t are dominated by Jews and I believe they control most of the media, just as they do in the US. By contrast, Russia has an ethnic Russian that leads the country and by some counts is undergoing a big return to Christanisty. Ths is like a horror movie to Jews who never stop indoctrinating Amercans with talk of the “pogroms” from 120 years ago or longer.

    I can sum up the differences based on a personal experience. In 2002 I visted Saint Petersburg and met a young woman there. Durng the time we spent together the subject of the Jews came up and she said “Russians and Jews don’t get along well”. I don’t recall the exact words of her sentence, but that is precisely the sentiment she related. It was rather refreshing. She wasn’t criticnzing either side, just stating a fact. And she wasn’t apologizing. She appeared to be a proud Russian. By contrast, when I was in Lviv last year, what had been the heart of Ukrainian nationalism, I met a young woman completely beholden to the Jews. She had visited Israel several times, she spoke of Jewish briliance, she made a comment about the bad Palestinians, she called me an anti-semite for telling her Jews dominated the USSR and were in charge when millions of Ukrainians were killed. She hated Germans, and hated me. She told me how brilliant Einsten was and how awful Germans were. No doubt, she would be a very loyal American.

    That is what is at stake for the Jews. They now have one more country they dominate, and maybe this one more than any other. And this is the same country they blasted for many decades as “anti-semitc”, portraying Ukrainians as evil “anti-semites” in movies and deporting Ukrainains from the USA so they could be tried on trumped up charges in Israel (John Demjanjuk).

    Anyone that doesn’t think Adam Schiff, Jerrold Nadler and the Jewish dominated mainstream medis are not acting in their own interest (Jewish interests) are just dumb.

  33. @Andrei Martyanov

    “The problem, however, is with the fact that the United States has neither resources nor status anymore to do either:”
    Yes — but…
    The US would hope it can pull another Indonesia, Ukraine, Hondurous, & now Bolivia etc, etc,
    etc on Russia. Another colour revolution, by those humanitarians in the NED.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  34. @A123

    “Globalism is against the Judeo-Christian God and his values. Which is why the IslamoSoros and Globalism go together so well.”
    I can’t believe your claims never mind your logic.
    So called “globalists” give not a damn about any religion, any race, any culture, & (probably) any ideology.
    They care about Power & Money — that-is-it.

  35. Icy Blast says:
    @A123

    What religion does Soros profess? Is he a member of an established racial and/or religious group? Just wondering. Ann Coulter says he’s a “pompous American billionaire.” But I felt that description was somehow incomplete.

    • Replies: @A123
  36. Alfred says:

    And where does it mention that Jews compose 90% of the current government of Ukraine? And of the previous governments ever since the Putsch?

    And that in a country almost devoid of Jews.

    Most of the oligarchs were created by the Americans using the World Bank and International Finance Organization and a string of private banks. These oligarchs are again almost all Jewish.

    Any article or video about Ukraine that leaves the role of International Jewery out is a work of fiction.

  37. Lot says:
    @Reality Cheque

    “ What would you say is Israel’s backyard?”

    The West Bank, Gaza, Syria and Lebanon. That’s already recognized worldwide given Israel can bomb and march into these areas at will.

    In a more just world:

    • Agree: kikz
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    , @Biff
  38. Sean says:

    Why, then, is Washington so deeply involved in Ukraine?

    Because once you secure the old border by making an ally of the country on it, their border becomes the new insecure border and so you have to bring yet another country on the far side of the new ally within your alliance. There is no end to it.

  39. I think it is as simple as it looks. Ukraine is “vital to American interests” inasmuch as those interests are:

    1- Keeping a heel on Russia to serve whatever existing financial interests there are in that status quo, or simply to remain dominant geopolitically, power being an end in itself

    2- The venality of American politicians in using Ukraine as a financial playground, very much as Ukrainian and Russian politicians have done.

    There’s no real mystery in a small “border” nation that exists as a conduit for a vital commodity being the pawn of bigger powers, is there?

  40. Anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I find it odd how Eastern Europeans boast that they’re much more intelligent and capable than Westerners, yet it seems to me that those of them with any intelligence and capability move to Western countries as soon as possible.

    If they’re so wonderful shouldn’t it be the other way round? Of course, they always blame it on “Communism” but that seems to be rather like the “Colonialism” excuse for why India and Africa is third world, how long is that excuse credible?

  41. Tom Welsh says:
    @Anonymous

    “And then they all flee to the U.S. to design and build computers, airplanes, missiles, etc., while their native lands try to remain barely 2nd world in STEM”.

    Computers… like the fundamentally insecure Intel processor chips? Besides, most “American” computers are manufactured in Asia. The American “executives” just skim off the profits. Any time now the people who actually make the microprocessors, RAM, hard drives, SSDs, network chips, etc. will realise that all they have to do is initiate a “buyout” and it will all be theirs.

    Airplanes… yeah, like the F-35? No honest comparison of the F-35 with any of the recent MiGs or Sukhois could come to any conclusion but that the Russian planes are vastly superior. And, of course, vastly cheaper – not only to buy, but to maintain and upgrade. Besides, the price of a Russian jet fighter includes the engines (unlike some F-35 quotations I have seen).

    Missiles… you really have got to be joking even to bring missiles into it. Turkey, India and many other nations are well aware that the Russian anti-aircraft missiles are far, far better than any US products. Not only that – they are also much cheaper! If you are talking about offensive missiles, the picture becomes even more one-sided.

    To correct your wording, the people you speak of “flee to the US” not to design and build anything useful, but mainly to scoop up all the gold with which the streets are lined, and drink all the milk and honey that flows there.

    They quickly find out that it’s not gold that lines the sidewalks, but something much nastier and smellier.

  42. Most Americans can not locate Ukraine on a map.

  43. Tom Welsh says:
    @RadicalCenter

    “A map is useful for ascertaining which countries border Russia. Yes, there are many”.

    Whereas the USA has borders with two (very weak) nations: Canada and Mexico. As Jules Jusserand, French Ambassador to the US, remarked in 1910:

    “The United States was blessed among nations. On the north, she had a weak neighbour; on the south, another weak neighbour; on the east, fish; and on the west, fish”.

    Nothing has changed since then.

    So the USA, with only two relatively weak and unthreatening neighbours, should need very minimal armed forces and should spend very little on armaments; while Russia, with many neighbours (including some very powerful ones) is justified in spending far more on its armed forces.

    Precisely the opposite of what we see; in reality, the USA spends ten times as much on armaments as Russia does.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  44. Tom Welsh says:
    @Reality Cheque

    “Americans don’t need to love Russia, but we must respect it. Ukraine is its backyard”.

    If Russia were a house, Ukraine would not be its backyard, but the very oldest room in the house.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27

    Of course, the convenient Wikipedia article is heavily biased toward the neocon view that Ukraine is no part of Russia and has always been independent.

    Kievan Rus was roughly contemporary with King Alfred’s Wessex – the nation that rapidly expanded to become England. And Kiev was the capital of the very first Russian state, just as Winchester was the capital of King Alfred’s Wessex. (All of this happened over 800 years before the American Revolution).

    If someone were to tell me today that Hampshire (the county in which Winchester is situated) is not part of England, but belongs to some weird country called “Borderland” – the literal meaning of “Ukraine” – I would laugh out loud. Russians would be quite as justified in claiming that Kiev has always been a Russian city, and still is today.

    However the Russians are peaceable, tolerant people and prefer to let their “erring sisters” go their own way unhindered. (Unlike Abraham Lincoln’s USA, which reacted to the perfectly justified secession of the Confederate States by launching a war that killed nearly a million people).

    • Agree: Robjil, nokangaroos
    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @AnonFromTN
  45. onebornfree says: • Website

    “War is the health of the state”:

    “….I’ve often quoted Randolph Bourne as saying, “War is the health of the state.” He was quite correct. The larger the nation, the greater the need political leaders have for warfare. ……………..Since the end of World War II, the US military-industrial complex has been displeased with the fact that peacetime means diminished revenue for them. Increasingly, they’ve contributed heavily to election campaigns for both major parties in every election.

    The repayment for those contributions has always been the same – the political class must find excuses to create a new conflict as soon as another one ends, ensuring the continued revenue of the complex.

    This has resulted in the US becoming the first and only country that’s in a consciously created state of perpetual warfare. The cost of this, in 2018, was roughly $600 billion – 54% of all federal discretionary spending……”:

    All It Takes Is a Slipup or a Nudge
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/11/no_author/all-it-takes-is-a-slipup-or-a-nudge/

    “Because they are all ultimately funded via both direct and indirect theft [taxes], and counterfeiting [via central bank monopolies], all governments are essentially, at their very cores, 100% corrupt criminal scams which cannot be “reformed”,”improved”, simply because of their innate, unchangeble criminal nature.” onebornfree

    “Taking the State wherever found, striking into its history at any point, one sees no way to differentiate the activities of its founders, administrators and beneficiaries from those of a professional-criminal class.” Albert J. Nock

    Regards,onebornfree

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @onebornfree
  46. – Without the unequivocally Russian parts (to include Dniepropetrowsk and Odessa oblasts) Ukraine is a landlocked sunflower field chemically pure of strategic value (thanks to Nord Stream 2).
    It was a private venture of the Tribe to provide a safe space more conveniently located than London or Cyprus.
    – The Banderists are a wild card … it took a special kind of idiocy to wake up that particular dog; they are not forever going to believe it was the Big Bad Russians who massacred their brothers.

    From the other side of the grand chessboard (always assuming there still is such a thing as an independent US geostrategy) the situation is simple – there are two Archimedean points, the loss either of which will mean the end of the empire:

    – Germany: NATO´s eastward expansion is not so much aimed at Mother Russia as on preempting Tauroggen/Rapallo 3.0 . Brexit doesn´t help either.

    – the Gulf: there is a reason it is called “Persian” and not “Lake Monroe”; contrary to popular belief the US do not need the oil, but without the ability to deny it to others the $$$ would collapse, rendering untenable the worldwide strategic posture (and prolly unleashing a groid uprising back home).

    Classic empire in overstretch – the only question is how much damage they will do on the way down.

    • Replies: @Marshall Lentini
    , @Z-man
  47. Z-man says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    Yes.
    The Neocon foreign policy has been swallowed up by most of the Dumbo-crats because of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome). Thank God for Tulsi. The Republi-tards are even more rabidly Neocoonish than the Demokratz. Thank The Lord for Rand Paul. So ‘they’, The Cabal, the Neocons, whatever you want to call them, basically run our foreign policy.
    Now ‘they’ have a special hatred for Putin because he reestablished Christian Orthodoxy into Mother Russia.
    You have to admire Trump’s intestinal fortitude to push back against Christian Zionists, Neocons, derranged Democrats and stupid politicians in general and that’s just in his own family!

  48. Z-man says:
    @A123

    Zionist troll that is.
    Judeo Christian, almost as big an oxymoron as Christian Zionist. Probably coined by some Jooz at CCNY in the 1930’s.

  49. @Anonymous

    You probably live under some stone. If you were following Russia military developments you would clearly understand that STEM so far at least math physics part is doing ok and considerably better than in USA.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  50. @Andrei Martyanov

    At least Germans once in a while did something good for Russia, while doing really long term disservice to themselves as history shown.

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
  51. Basically ukraine and belorussia is Russia safe few parts. The whole madness of this situation that basically russian people were led to believe that they are not russians . Sooner or later this anomaly will have to be addressed and I disagree with those who consider ukraine a lost cause. Everything in due time. In this regard chinese are behaving rightfully not allowing no piece of china go. Once one start retreating in this regard there is no knowing how much can be lost. For now I think russia is doing right thing. But eventually both Ukraine and belorussia will have to be reintegrated. On their own they are not viable anyway.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  52. Frankie P says:
    @Lot

    Every day I thank God for the Shiite resistance to your people, and your “just world” bs is a pipe dream. It is a great example of your arrogance and the chutzpah of the Zionist Jew. You are my enemy, and you are the enemy of humanity. In a just world, Israel would be disarmed by level-headed western and eastern powers working together, and forced into a just solution to the I/P conflict, perhaps a one-state solution with one man one vote. This would result in the land becoming Palestine, which it is. In the same just world, the organized community of US Jews would be stripped of all power and influence. Investigations would be carried out into the nefarious activities of AIPAC, the ADL, etc. and the indictments that followed would allow the US to pursue a foreign policy that benefited the people of the US.

    Imagine how much better that just world would be. And Lot? Who cares? He is a cockroach.

    • Replies: @Anon
  53. The Pentagon and the State Department threatened Egypt with sanctions for concluding a contract with Russia for the supply of Su-35 fighters to Cairo, media reported.

    The US Against Deals With Russia: Egypt Scares Sanctions

  54. red rider says: • Website
    @peterAUS

    Too simplistic. To expand NATO to Ukraine itself but notice not to Russia. Why? Because Russia is the one that the US wants conquered totally, completely and utterly. The greedy Jewish eyes running America want Russia’s natural resources so bad that they wouldn’t care if every Russian or for that matter Ukranian, German or Pole died in the process of obtaining it. The former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright once complained that the mineral wealth of Siberia was so vast that it should not be owned by Russia, but by all humanity. Madeline also being a jew, I’m sure by “all humanity” really meant by the Jews and rest of the .1% of America.

  55. @Tom Welsh

    I think it was Porfirio Diaz: “Poor Mexico, so far away from God and so close to the US!” 😉

  56. GMC says:

    I always enjoy reading what Mr. Cohen is up to. My time in Ukraine – 2008 + showed me a picture of President Yushenko and PM Tymoshenko running Ukraine fairly smoothly since I was new there. The President had an American wife as I recall and Tymoshenko was pro western also. Globalist corporations were trying to make deals for farmland, contracts etc.When President Yanukovych entered the scene, I really noticed that he was into making future deals with – anybody – and when I would ask the Ukie guys , what they thought of Yanuk, they all put their hands in their pockets – meaning he is a crook, thief etc. I know for a fact that he was making a deal with the Chinese for part of the farmland bread basket , all the infrastructure for it and a port in Crimea, which was started. At the same time he was in talks with Monsanto, Carghill, Dupont and Bechtel was already working in Ukraine. I think he was pocketing a lot of money , along with his family. He tried keeping Russia close because of the cheap gaz, the many jobs for Ukies in Ru. , and the best loans were from Ru. Maybe he tried to play both sides of the street – Russia – the West – but Mr. Cohen could tell us – Thanks Unz Rev.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  57. A123 says:
    @Icy Blast

    What religion does Soros profess? Is he a member of an established racial and/or religious group?

    Soros has Jewish parents, but abandoned the faith of his forebearers. He actively supports the BDS movement, which is dedicated to exterminating millions of Jews. (1). Any one describing Soros as a practicing Jew is either ill-informed or trying to deceive you.

    Functionally, he supports Islamic causes. There is no public record of formal conversion to Islam, so most would consider him a willing dhimmi servant of Islam. I suspect that he has secretly undergone full coversion, but concede that is not provable at this time.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/01/21/target-israel-george-soros-funded-groups-leading-bds-war-on-jewish-state/

    • Replies: @kikz
  58. Biff says:
    @Lot

    Glad you mentioned it. In a ‘just’ world everyone would know ‘just’ exactly what Israel’s plans are, and you exposed ‘just’ that. That map, and what Israel’s politburo, and Rabbi’s have been talking, writing, and planning about should be daily news in the West. It would explain a lot about the forever wars of fracturing secular governments in the M.E., and finally provide the “no shit Sherlock” moment the dummies have been looking for. “Why are we spilling so much American blood in the Middle East?” Check the map dummy!

  59. onebornfree says: • Website
    @onebornfree

    “Come you masters of war / You that build the big guns

    You that build the death planes / You that build all the bombs

    You that hide behind walls / You that hide behind desks

    I just want you to know / I can see through your masks….

    You fasten all the triggers / For the others to fire

    Then you sit back and watch / When the death count gets higher

    You hide in your mansion / While the young people’s blood

    Flows out of their bodies / And is buried in the mud.

    — Bob Dylan, “Masters of War”

    War drives the American police state.

    The military-industrial complex is the world’s largest employer.

    War sustains our way of life while killing us at the same time. …..”

    “Casualties of War”: https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/casualties-of-war/

    Regards,onebornfree

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  60. Anon[338] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frankie P

    Lot and his his lot come from a warlike people… and not from the Middle East. From historian Jim Wald at The Times of Israel blog:

    It is well known that, sometime in the eighth to ninth centuries, the Khazars, a warlike Turkic people, converted to Judaism and ruled over a vast domain in what became southern Russia and Ukraine. What happened to them after the Russians destroyed that empire around the eleventh century has been a mystery. Many have speculated that the Khazars became the ancestors of Ashkenazi Jews.

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/leaked-report-israel-acknowledges-jews-in-fact-khazars-secret-plan-for-reverse-migration-to-ukraine/

    Um, with all due respect Professor Wald, I don’t think they kept a low profile post-eleventh century.

    • Replies: @jsigur
    , @Lot
  61. Ukraine is Our Greatest Ally™ and the only democracy in the Middle East.

  62. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Many russians seem to be happy without the cantakerous full of hate ukranian bums .

    Russia survives but Ukraina ruined herself .

    Ukraina has ruined the EU . Much of EU population has realized that the expansion of the EU to the east has been not only an economic burden for the classic EU , but a very dangerous NATO plot to carry the NATO borders to Russia , and eventually invade/attack nuclear armed Russia which would be able to incinerate all EU , as well as the USA .

    Now Ukraina is poisoning the domestic policies ot the USA , Bidens, Pelosis , Trumps …

    Ukraina must be a cursed country , she hates the russian nation to which it belonged for centuries . she rejects her own russian language in favor of a polakoid dialect . Greedy demented Ukraina thought she could obtain massive subventions from the US and EU , they thought it would be as easy as stealing russian gas and oil .

    Ukraruina must be cursed , and she has cursed the West .

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  63. Robjil says:
    @PeterMX

    That is what is at stake for the Jews. They now have one more country they dominate, and maybe this one more than any other. And this is the same country they blasted for many decades as “anti-semitc”, portraying Ukrainians as evil “anti-semites” in movies and deporting Ukrainains from the USA so they could be tried on trumped up charges in Israel (John Demjanjuk).

    That is so true. When I grew up in the US, most people had to hide their Ukrainian origins from Jews. When one mentioned that they were part Ukrainian. Jews would say don’t mention that or something like it is “yuck”. Many people with Ukrainian origins that I know said that they were Polish or Russian to hide their Ukrainian origins from Jews.

    I noticed the same thing too about the endless articles for decades stating that Ukraine was the most anti-Semitic Soviet republic. There were lots of articles also about Ukrainians in the US as being the most anti-Semitic people. I noticed in library book about the Khmelnytsky Uprising 1648-1657 that a Jew penciled in that “these people” (Ukrainians) keep doings things like this against “our people”. The big 6 was one of the “things”.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
    , @jack daniels
  64. If Ukraine is “a vital US national interest” then it must be for Russia too. No state wants a long hostile territorial border to defend. One of the reasons Russia went to war in 1914 was the frontier it would have to defend against Germany, from the Baltic to the Balkans. Each side perceives the other as the threat. But if Ukraine is a core interest to both (and this should be of concern to Ukrainians) then at some point NATO and Russia will go to war. We face a third world war, as the pattern of history suggests.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

    • Disagree: Ilyana_Rozumova
    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  65. @A123

    Wouldn’t Soros be a good guy according to Unz.com authors if he is a BDS advocate? There is a major mix-up here as regarding who we’re supposed to hate.

    I’ve read one of his books which IIRC expounded a hard-to-grasp principle governing the ups and downs of the stock market. Interesting anecdote from his mother. When being interrogated by the Gestapo she sensed that she had floated up above the proceedings watching the dialectic of the investigation. Soros’ parents flimflammed the Gestapo somehow.The jews that evaded the Gestapo and survived seem from the experience to have acquired an extra-fold in the cerebrum which helps to explain their enormous success after their escape. Soros’ uncanny sixth-sense of financial movements did not require an immoral turn of mind. Which suggests that he is his own man. Honestly undermining the workings of local governments everywhere and especially in the US of which he is a citizen.

    • Replies: @A123
  66. @animalogic

    The US would hope it can pull another Indonesia, Ukraine, Hondurous, & now Bolivia etc, etc, etc on Russia. Another colour revolution, by those humanitarians in the NED.

    US and EU already tried to pull Ukraine on Russia, it all ended up in Debaltsevo and we know today’s end-state. Bolivia, bar few contracts, is of no consequence for Russia–Venezuela is more important–and the rest is also inconsequential, not to mention that they not so much add to US resources, however exhausted and limited, but deduct from. As I stated not for once–the danger with today’s US is not in the fact that it is strong, but precisely because it is weak and, on the level of a decision making, either do not recognize it due to low professionalism of people responsible for that or refuses to face the facts “on the ground”. That is the danger–US getting embroiled in some shitty “little” conflict, losing it dramatically, not in protracted way as in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc. and then getting hysterical and lashing out with nukes because US doesn’t have resources to fight near-peer or peer-to-peer conventional conflict and win in it. .

    • Replies: @animalogic
  67. annamaria says:
    @peterAUS

    You need to learn about Occam’s razor.

    The best of Ukraine have been emerging to the daylight glare: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/david-stockman-exposes-ukrainian-influence-peddling-rings-part-1

    Zlochevsky was an ally, officeholder (minister of ecology and natural resources) and inner-circle thief in the ousted government of Viktor Yanukovych. He, therefore, needed to powder the pig fast and thoroughly in order to hold onto his ill-gotten billions.

    So he hired the best Washington influence peddlers that money could buy under the circumstances. First up was Hunter Biden, because his old man was running point on what amounted to the puppet government Washington had installed in Kiev, and Devon Archer, because he was a former bundler for former Senator (and then Secretary of State) John Kerry.

    Zlochevsky also had Burisma hire another Washington influence peddler … David Leiter of Washington lobbying firm M.L. Strategies….. Mr. Leiter was John Kerry’s chief of staff when Mr. Kerry was a U.S. senator from Massachusetts….According to disclosure records, Mr. Leiter, who also had worked for the Energy Department, lobbied on behalf of Burisma on “promoting transparency and good corporate governances” at both chambers of Congress, the State Department, the Treasury Department, the Energy Department, and US AID. …

    Mykola Zlochevsky, the former employer of Hunter Biden and current partner of the Atlantic Council: https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2019/10/04/benny-kolomoisky-is-still-the-jewish-hitler-of-the-ukraine/

    On Feb 2 [2016], Shokin confiscated four large houses Zlochevsky owned plus a Rolls-Royce Phantom and a “Knott 924-5014 trainer.” (Anyone knows what that is?) Ten days later Biden goes into overdrive to get him fired. Within one week he personally calls Poroshenko three times with only one major aim: to get Shokin fired. The WaPo falsely claimed that the Zlochevsky case was “dormant.” The executive director of the Pindo and Euro-financed Anti-Corruption Action Center falsely claimed that the prosecutor was “not pursuing the investigation.” The NYT repeated that false claim and added an obvious false claim from unnamed Zlochevsky “allies.”

    • Replies: @renfro
  68. Let’s not forget basic history here. Ukrainian’s hold no love for “Mother Russia” and suffered terribly at the hands of Stalin under his created famine in 1932-33.

    That is not to say we have any business in Ukraine – we don’t. But either does Russia who is still trying to regain territory lost after the breakup of the Soviet Union. The Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, also known as Soviet Ukraine, was one of the constituent republics of the Soviet Union from the Union’s inception in 1922 to its breakup in 1991. The republic was governed by the Communist Party of Ukraine as a unitary one-party socialist soviet republic.

    At the height of the 1932-33 Ukrainian famine under Joseph Stalin, starving people roamed the countryside, desperate for something, anything to eat. In the village of Stavyshche, a young peasant boy watched as the wanderers dug into empty gardens with their bare hands. Many were so emaciated, he recalled, that their bodies began to swell and stink from the extreme lack of nutrients.

    :https://holodomorinfo.com/

    • Troll: nokangaroos
  69. @Sergey Krieger

    You probably live under some stone.

    Louis C.K. who, for some reason, is counted as a comedian visited Russia around mid-1990s. The idiot still makes jokes about Russia based on those impressions and thinks that it still applies. On the other hand, most of State Department and (lack of) Intelligence Community, with sole exception of DIA, also think that Russia is still in mid-1990s and is “a gas station masquerading as a country”(c) to quote great late American Russia scholar and strategist John McCain.

  70. @peter mcloughlin

    Didn’t mean to steal your pic. Ukraine would be happy if both the Us and Russia would just leave them the hell alone.

  71. Z-man says:
    @Tom Welsh

    If Russia were a house, Ukraine would not be its backyard, but the very oldest room in the house.

    Ukraine is to Russia what Sardinia and Sicily is to Italy.

  72. Z-man says:
    @nokangaroos

    – Without the unequivocally Russian parts (to include Dniepropetrowsk and Odessa oblasts) Ukraine is a landlocked sunflower field chemically pure of strategic value (thanks to Nord Stream 2).
    It was a private venture of the Tribe to provide a safe space more conveniently located than London or Cyprus.

    Hey I have an idea, we can give the Jooz the land equivalent of the 1947 partition plan of Palestine in Ukraine. That’s it! Case closed. But they have to cede all of Palestine to the Arabs.
    Of course this will never happen but it’s a damn good idea.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  73. @PeterMX

    Agree with all but this statement: “By contrast, Russia has an ethnic Russian that leads the country and by some counts is undergoing a big return to Christanisty.” Putin is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and one smooth operator.

    A small minority of us in the Western nationalist movement feel it imperative to alert leaders and persons of influence in our sphere of the great Russia deception. For it seems the great majority in our movement are being deceived on a massive scale by a decades-old, highly sophisticated, and highly co-ordinated campaign to lure the Church and Western nationalists into a trap in order to finally clinch world communistic government.

    Essentially, the deception lies in the mistaken belief in the collapse of communist power in Russia, in the supposed Sino-Soviet split, and in the alleged rebirth of conservatism/nationalism/Christian orthodoxy in the current Russian Federation. Soviet defector Golitsyn attempted to warn the world of this grand Russia deception in the 1980s through his contacts in the Central Intelligence Agency. However, we fear his efforts may have been sabotaged by Zionist agents within the CIA, namely one James Jesus Angleton. As a result, his message appears to have been blocked from reaching the appropriate channels of power in government and, ultimately, omitted from foreign policy plans of Western nations.

    https://www.opdeepstate.com/2019/10/01/putins-reign-of-terror/

    • Agree: S
    • Replies: @S
  74. Alfred says:
    @PeterMX

    She hated Germans, and hated me

    A few years ago in Melbourne I met a Dutch girl in a shopping-center. We discussed MH17 – the plane that was shot down over Donbass. Lots of Dutch and Australians were killed. She had an Israeli boyfriend.

    I pointed out to her that the Dutch government was complicit and not carrying out a normal air accident/criminal investigation. She was furious with me. The idea that the Dutch government could ever lie to the people was totally impossible for her to accept.

    She turned her venom on me. I paid her back by pointing out that her boyfriend was complicit in the genocide of Palestinians and that the Anne Frank story diary is fake as it was written with a ball point pen -they did not exist at that time. You should have seen how livid she became. 🙂

    The sad fact is that people prefer lies to unpleasant truths. We are in a post-truth society.

    • Replies: @Truth3
  75. jsigur says:

    if there is a “good guy” in this fight, indeed, it is the Russians, emphasis on the “if”

  76. jsigur says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    they were indeed ruled by a overtly hostile elite. So are we, once you get past the mind control

  77. jsigur says:
    @Anon

    they just censored the history around it

  78. annamaria says:
    @Reality Cheque

    Read again and then ponder for a few minutes:

    The people in Washington and Tel Aviv who are playing these games with potentially millions of American & Russian lives are psychopaths who in a sane world would be tried for war crimes for the acts they have already committed, much less those they contemplate or risk setting in motion.

  79. Skeptikal says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    “But either does Russia who is still trying to regain territory lost after the breakup of the Soviet Union.”

    this is a shibboleth.
    Who says?
    There is no evidence that Russia wants to take on the Ukrainian basket case.
    It is kraine that needs Russia, not the other way around. This was the basis of the status quo ante before the idiotic Maidan coup engineered by the USA, which has now maimed Ukraine and entangled it more deeply in US domestic politics.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Robjil
  80. @Andrei Martyanov

    “US and EU already tried to pull Ukraine on Russia, it all ended up in Debaltsevo and we know today’s end-state.”
    I agree — however, if/when Putin goes….i have bad dreams about a return to the Russian 90’s. Yes, it’s more unlikely now — but I’m pessimistic by nature.

  81. Skeptikal says:

    ” Is it irony or tragedy that the often-maligned Trump and Putin may stand between us and something much worse—between a fragile Cold War peace and the war parties in their respective countries?”

    Which was the basic situ with Kennedy and Khrushchev.
    Their own military hardliners were a greater danger to world peace—and to them—than their putative adversary or their own people, who only desired peace and coexistence.

  82. The ZUS is in the Ukraine to stir up trouble and act as the agent provocateur in an attempt to start a war with Russia and as in the mideast the zionist satanic demonic agenda results in the death of millions in a sacrifice to the zionist god satan.

  83. @Z-man

    It would make for a nice litmus test, yes …

    if indeed they were true to Herzl´s ideals (fat chance), they´d jump at the offer.

    … just not in Ukraine; not after what they have done.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  84. Lot says:
    @Anon

    The Khazar theory was disproved by genetic studies. Ashkenazi are about 40% from ancient Israel, 50% from Northern Italy/Southern France, 10% from Germany/Poland.

    The Khazars just assimilated into being Ukrainians and Russians like so many other former ethnic groups in Eastern Europe.

    This corresponds to the historic record too. We know Ashkenazi were in Germany in 1100, but no record of them in Southern Russia until much later.

    • Replies: @Truth3
  85. A123 says:
    @Anonymouse

    Wouldn’t Soros be a good guy according to Unz.com authors if he is a BDS advocate? There is a major mix-up here as regarding who we’re supposed to hate.

    The conspiracy theorists here are often hard to follow.

    Compare the map below showing actual Muslim invasions of Christian lands versus the Greater Israel map up in #37. It is obvious to the naked eye that Muslims are very dangerous to Christians while Jews are not. Yet the conspiracy theorists here espouse the exact reverse of common sense.

    Mutti Mullah Merkel of Islam arranged for millions of her fellow Jihadis to invade Europe masquerading as ‘rape-fugees’ (1). A plan by Muslims for the benefit of Islam. And again, the conspiracy nuts cannot deal with the reality and insist on blaming Jews.
    _____

    Of course, Jew Derangement Syndrome [JDS] is not limited to this site. Iranian Islamic Jihad in Palestine [PIJ] attacked the HQ building of the Independent Commission on Human Rights. (2)

    The damage from the rocket also indicates a Qassam-style rocket, not an Israeli missile:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MAFe6znMF4E/Xcv6LyiWsqI/AAAAAAABW1Y/TxHPGKr_s9EDdWLyFPhmE8ZFfTrb6SGDQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/608.jpg

    The anti-Semitic organization, Amnesty International, tried to frame Israel for the Iranian sponsored rocket strike.

    I keep hoping for peace, and I find the hate that drives Islam to attack infidels (Christians and Jews) to be unfathomable. One cannot make peace if the other side insists on Jihad/war.

    PEACE 😇

    _____

    (1) https://nypost.com/2016/01/10/germans-slam-rapefugees-in-wake-of-mass-sexual-attack/

    (2) https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2019/11/amnesty-falsely-blames-israel-for.html

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  86. @Sergey Krieger

    Your view is incorrect.
    Russia does not really need them, and as you can see actions of Putin, does not really want them,
    Zelensky want to negotiate with Putin, but Putin so far has no interested in any negotiation.
    Let me make it clear more plainly. Russia does not give rats arse about Ukraine, and the same to the certain extent even applies to Bielorussia. For Russia only important thing is to have a peaceful and friendly relation with Germany.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  87. @Anonymous

    I find it odd how Eastern Europeans boast that they’re much more intelligent and capable than Westerners, yet it seems to me that those of them with any intelligence and capability move to Western countries as soon as possible.

    That’s only partly true. Polish software engineers seldom emigrate because they are well paid and the cost of living is lower, so they wouldn’t gain by moving to the UK or Germany. Scientists are low paid, but that’s a political problem.

  88. Alfred says:
    @GMC

    When President Yanukovych entered the scene, I really noticed that he was into making future deals with – anybody – and when I would ask the Ukie guys , what they thought of Yanuk, they all put their hands in their pockets – meaning he is a crook, thief etc.

    You somehow presume that Tymoshenko was an innocent butterfly. My dear sir she was getting a percentage on all the gas that Ukraine was buying from Russia. The Russians were obliged to pay money into Switzerland so that they could send the stuff across Ukraine. Don’t forget that she was imprisoned for that.

    Ukraine seeks ‘Tymoshenko’ funds (2013)

    As for the “American wife” of Yushenko, she was CIA.

    Let’s not forget that Yushenko had himself “poisoned” so that he would win the election. Miraculously, he is now as good as new. This is so laughable.

    Skin growths saved poisoned Ukrainian president (fake story to explain the miracle)

    • Replies: @GMC
  89. Robjil says:
    @Skeptikal

    The show trial in the ZUS is so funny.

    I can not even watch it without laughing.

    It is a coup coup.

    The ZUS does a coup in Ukraine in 2014.

    In 2019, ZUS coup-ed ukraine works with ZUSA to do a coup in the “homeland”.

    It is a Z coup coup world after all.

  90. Ahoy says:

    The destination was Moscow. They run out of gas and stayed overnight in Ucraine. It was very expensive. They paid with Crimea and S.E. Ucraine.

    Lest they forget that the First Tsar of Russia was crowned in Kiev, on 1000 a.d. and don’t get out of there asap, this is wat is coming to them.

  91. What do you mean we don’t have anything in common with Ukraine? One gets the impression that the founding fathers of America came from the Pale of Settlement? It’s only matter of time before Ukraine would be purchased a la Alaska style from the Romanoffs… the New York branch!

  92. TKK says:
    @JVC

    Yes- our own border.

    It’s racist and immoral to even mildly advocate policing the border.

    But the borders and autonomy in Ukraine are driving our entire foreign policy? And a sham partisan impeachment?

    Time to stomp out the fire and call in the dogs. American politicians are malevolent and insane. Abandon ship.

    • Agree: Alfred
  93. Che Guava says:
    @Gall

    Wow,that commemt is bizarre. The Russian Empire was fighting the second front.

    The sealed train and all was to weaken it, or as it happened, close it down.

    I find the ignorance of your comment incredible, in the true sense of the word.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  94. @onebornfree

    I don’t know if you have ever read The Report From Iron Mountain, it explains that the elites want perpetual war, it can be googled, it came out in the 1960’s.

  95. Truth3 says:
    @Alfred

    She’s a Jew By Injection (((JBI))). She made her choice… Hell awaits.

  96. Truth3 says:
    @Lot

    Wrong. Fake DNA studies were commissioned by the Zio leadership to counter Eran Elhaik’s work.

    Go learn Truth before you speak.

    http://eranelhaiklab.org

  97. Alfred says:
    @Che Guava

    The Russian Empire was fighting the second front

    Did you not know that the USA won WW1 and WW2 single-handed?

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  98. peterAUS says:
    @Anonymous

    Pretty much.

    For most, it’s a defense mechanism, though. They do know the truth; it’s simply too uncomfortable.

  99. @Lot

    Americans don’t need to love Russia, but we must respect it. Ukraine is its backyard.

    That was a general perception in Russia maybe 15 years ago, and that is the view Putin and other Russian moderates are pushing. However, this is no longer the prevailing view among Russian population. While many Russians retain good familial feelings towards their relatives in Ukraine, their feeling towards Ukraine as an entity soured considerably. Massive Ukrainian war crimes in Donbass made a strong negative impact. The feelings might improve yet, but that would take time.

    As far as the US is concerned, it never gave a hoot about Ukraine or Ukrainians. For the US elites Ukraine and its population are disposable pawns in a geopolitical game. Basically, the Empire tries to force everyone, including Russia, to toe the imperial line. Ukrainians who do not see (or pretend not to see) this look really stupid. That affects Russian perception of them very negatively.

    • Agree: Alfred
  100. anonymous[740] • Disclaimer says:

    Obviously the US cares nothing about Ukrainian lives or their well-being; they’re simply a tool to use against the real target, the Russians. The Russians are a barrier to US world domination and the plan is to knock it down, hence all these chessboard type strategies to surround, subvert and weaken them. However, time has slipped away from the US as Russia has developed itself to the point that it can’t be challenged head on by something like the legion of fools and midgets known as NATO. The US just exploits others to do the dying for them, something they learned from the British. On it’s own it can’t and won’t fight a peer enemy, something it’s never done. The situation isn’t helped by the delusional stupidity of the leadership class who are in fantasyland.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  101. Tom Welsh says:
    @A123

    “Compare the map below showing actual Muslim invasions of Christian lands versus the Greater Israel map up in #37. It is obvious to the naked eye that Muslims are very dangerous to Christians while Jews are not”.

    Yeah – if you believe that threats that took place over 1,000 years ago are as dangerous as those that exist today.

  102. @Undocumented Shopper

    “This would be a geopolitical blunder of biblical proportions, comparable to Germany’s decision to sponsor Lenin’s sealed train voyage.”

    Can you explain how this was such a big blunder and for whom? It seems to have benefited Germany, because the Russian Army pulled out of WW1. It can be argued that it was good for Russia, because it was able to industrialize with the Bolsheviks.

    • Replies: @Alden
  103. @Andrei Martyanov

    Thanks to the USSR science training a lot of former Russians hold very high positions in the US academia, both officially and by consensus of their respective fields. Most natives have hard time competing, despite an advantage of English being their mother tongue and networking opportunities in college and grad school that Russian emigres did not have.

  104. @A123

    Unusually sensible comment from A123.

  105. @Undocumented Shopper

    The controllers of the Empire have targeted Russia for conquest or destruction just like they did to Germany before WW1. They achieved their goal with Germany in 1945.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  106. @WorkingClass

    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

  107. S says:

    As others have alluded the answer to ‘Why Are We in Ukraine?’ is certainly multi-faceted.

    One of the major reasons is a historic drive by the Capitalist US/UK (with the United States at present being the senior partner of the two) for the obtainment of total world power.

    Within the Anglosphere amongst the Anglo-Saxon elites and their hangers on involved in the project, the drive for future global empire has been called the ‘New Rome’, and more formally referred to as ‘The United States of the World’. Indeed a book by that very name was published in the United States in 1853 which outlines geo-politically how in the future this would be brought about.

    First, as outlined in the book, the strategic false split in place since 1776 between the United States and United Kingdom would be ended so that together the US/UK can form an almost unbeatable united front towards the world. Second, conquer and consolidate control over Germany, this country being the center of power upon continental Europe. Third, and lastly, smash Russia, this country being the only one with the potential to challenge US domination of Germany, Europe, and the remainder of the world.

    [I should add here, Communist writings (paralleling the Capitalists) in their own quest for total power have also historically spoken about the geo-political importance of controlling Germany and had a ‘United States of the World’ as the end goal as well.]

    Z Brzezinski, who wrote brazenly about the US making a future push to dominate the Ukraine back in the 90’s, being someone of importance in the US establishment, probably knew of the ‘New Rome’ ideology and was okay with it. His being of Polish background might explain that in part, though ultimately the New Rome world empire won’t be a good thing for his Poland either should the plan succeed.

    In addition to the New Rome in this push against Russia, there has also been the controlled and artificial Hegelian dialectic aspect of this between an ultimately closely paralleling and complimentary Capitalist/Communist, Right/Left, Conservative/Liberal, etc, paradigm which has been forced upon the world since the embryonic 1776 Capitalist and 1789 Communist revolutions both came into play.

    Anglo-Saxon elites and hangers on, in addition (amongst others) to powerful elements of the Jewish people’s elites and hangers on, who have provided major financing, as well likely as certain of the ideation, have been involved in this as well.

    The US and UK, being major instigators behind the scenes, accordingly in the first two world wars had lower losses per capita than the other powers involved, in particular with the US this was the case.

    Regarding a potential WWIII with Russia, that pattern may change, one reason being many of the Anglo-Saxon elites involved pushing a WWIII don’t seem nowadays to have even a minimal concern for their own A-S people or related others (ie demographic displacement in the US/UK).

    There is also the much heard about hope to drive the world’s population down to an ‘ideal’ 500 million, which a world war, potentially largely destroying the US/UK as well as an allied Russia and China, not too mention many other countries, could help do.

    Finally, within the aforementioned controlled Hegelian dialectic, just as the old Soviet Union was broken up almost thirty years ago and the ‘Fall of Communism’ took place, there maybe those who similarly wish to see the United States break up and experience a paralleling ‘Fall of Capitalism’ in the form of economic, financial, and geo-political collapse, something a world war could easily facilitate.

    Then a conclusion to this centuries old project could be brought about in the form of a theoretical final ‘synthesis’ of the Capitalist ‘thesis’ and Communist ‘anti-thesis’ so as to usher in the ‘United States of the World’.

    Quotes from the linked 1853 book, The New Rome; or, the United States of the World:

    pg 107

    ‘Russia must either deal or drink destruction; she is ever intent upon the former…and the United States, the certain antidote.’

    pg 109

    ‘Thus the lines are drawn. The choirs are marshalled on each wing of the world’s stage, Russia leading the one, the United States the other. Yet the world is too small for both, and the contest must end in the downfall of the one and the victory of the other.’

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  108. @Andrei Martyanov

    If you read this, Andrei, would you be willing to give your opinion on whether Mr. Putin could or should have rolled the tanks into Kiev right after this illegal US-instigated coup took place and nipped it in the bud? Could short-term blood have let to longer-term peace?

    I would have loved to have seen John McCain squeel like a stuck pig, as he could have done nothing about it. I can totally understand, as Cohen relates, why the “hard-liners in Moscow” are increasingly upset with Putin’s “passivity in the face of American aggression.”

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  109. @Colin Wright

    Why, after expending so much Russian blood and treasure to keep the Assad government in power, would Mr. Putin even think of dumping Syria?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  110. @follyofwar

    ‘Why, after expending so much Russian blood and treasure to keep the Assad government in power, would Mr. Putin even think of dumping Syria?’

    Because he could swap it for the Ukraine?

  111. @anonymous

    Odd that Washington continues its Insane and Satanic quest for World Domination while, at the same time, it is quickly, and surely, killing itself from within. There is a Shit Storm comin.’

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  112. Alden says:

    America is in Ukraine because Israeli Powers That Be realize that Israel is just not viable in the long term. The plan is to return to their historic home land, Russia. Exploitable peasants, best farmland in the world, beautiful blondes to sell to the Gulf Arabs and pimp around Europe and Israel, the total backing of the American Jew controlled State Department and the American military

    That’s why we’re in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  113. Herald says:

    Why, after expending so much Russian blood and treasure to keep the Assad government in power, would Mr. Putin even think of dumping Syria?

    Interesting question, perhaps Colin would tell us why asking it as of now might be of particular significance.

  114. @Anon

    It is funny that some say that Russia lost Ukraine. Even assuming that it is true (which it is likely not in the long run), there is a catch. Say, if you cut off my finger, that would be a loss for me. But wouldn’t you say that it is a much bigger loss for my finger? I’d survive, but it won’t. By opposing itself to Russia, Ukraine forfeited its chances of survival. Not that the US elites care: they don’t give a hoot about disposable tools the empire uses and then throws away, like used condoms.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  115. Alden says:
    @Charles Carroll

    By 1890 the 4 greatest industrial powers of the world were the United States Germany England and Russia. Russia industrialized under the Czars, not the communists.

    Rural Electrification which was endlessly touted by commie lovers in the west? The plans were made, land purchased and work begun in 1900, discontinued in 1914 when war began and finished by the bolsheviks 20 years after the revolution and civil war.

    • Replies: @S
    , @Sparkon
  116. Alden says:
    @A123

    The American Friends Service Committee allied itself with every subversive, Jewish black cause since 1920. They created Angela Davis. They helped fund and provided clerical help to Faye Stender and the Prison Law Project.

    F… the Quakers.

    • Agree: Dannyboy
  117. @Tom Welsh

    If Russia were a house, Ukraine would not be its backyard, but the very oldest room in the house.

    Kind of correct, but not quite. Today’s Ukraine is the second oldest room in the Russian house. Russian princes came from Novgorod, killed local potentates, and made Kiev their capital. BTW, the term “Kievan Rus” was coined in the nineteenth century to mark the period before Mongol invasion, back when it existed it was called simply Rus.

    • Agree: Mikhail
  118. peterAUS says:
    @S

    Good comment.

    I’d just swap Anglo-Saxon with Jewish elites for the last, say, 30 years. Or, Jewish elites were the junior partner in that “team” before, but not anymore. They are the senior partner now.

    Of course, for a peculiar (but understandable) reason Russians seem incapable of getting it.
    Jews are good guys. The bad guys are Germans, British, and Americans, in that order.
    Promising……………………………………………………

  119. @Reality Cheque

    “Americans don’t need to love Russia, but we must respect it. Ukraine is its backyard.”

    Funny, I thought that was Siberia.
    And Sakhalin.
    And Armenia.
    And Belarus.
    And Kazakhstan.
    And Birobidzhan.
    How many backyards does it have?

    Well, we would expect the world’s largest country to be the world leader in backyards. Here’s Wikipedia:

    From northwest to southeast, Russia shares land borders with Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland (both with Kaliningrad Oblast), Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia and North Korea. It shares maritime borders with Japan by the Sea of Okhotsk and the U.S. state of Alaska across the Bering Strait. However, Russia recognises two more countries that border it, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, both of which are internationally recognized as parts of Georgia.

    (Armenia doesn’t border Russia, true, but it has all kinds of ties to Russia and perhaps the world’s most Russophilic population, so it makes sense for Russia to give it tender loving care.)

  120. @follyofwar

    If you read this, Andrei, would you be willing to give your opinion on whether Mr. Putin could or should have rolled the tanks into Kiev right after this illegal US-instigated coup took place and nipped it in the bud? Could short-term blood have let to longer-term peace?

    here is my opinion, which I expressed even here at Unz, you may take a look at this piece, as an example.

    http://www.unz.com/article/russia-as-a-cat/

    Initially I was ambivalent about this “invasion” business but after Odessa and Debaltsevo I had no doubts whatsoever that decision not to invade was absolutely correct and the only sensible one for Russia. I will continue to repeat this ad nauseam: it was Crimea that was the main goal, Donbass happened almost accidentally and Moscow’s reactions to Donbass uprising and other contingencies were initially purely reactive, as is expected in such a situation. But it was already clear in late 2014 that Donbass will not be betrayed and it was not. Moreover, I write on this for years now: Russian-American “game” since 08-08-08 was not regional under any circumstances, it was and is global. Yes, in 2014 Russian Armed Forces could have demolished Ukrainian Army in a matter of weeks and then would have gotten embroiled into protracted Law Enforcement and COIN operations, primarily in the West and Central Ukraine, while Russia being forced to take this black hole territory on economic balance, this is not to mention the fact that by far (I underscore this) not all so called “Eastern” Ukrainians see themselves as Russians. In fact, a majority there would love to suck on Russia’s economic teat, while remaining Ukrainians. This was THE PLAN in D.C. So no, short-time blood would not have been a short-time one, considering inevitable sabotage and playing out trauma from demolition of Ukie Armed Forces in the most brutal efficient way would have created conditions for Russia (and Putin) betting the livelihood of more than 146 million Russian citizens to “save” few million of Ukrainians who do count themselves Russians.

    As time already demonstrated without a shadow of a doubt–the decision was correct and Russia did buy a crucial time for retooling her economy and Armed Forces which allow today not only resolve Syrian contingency, but to reliably defend Eurasian economic integration while demolishing US Dollar dominated system. Russia doesn’t need Ukraine nor is she obliged to take care of millions of brainwashed svidomys–let US and EU deal with this problem, with Russia only setting and enforcing conditions on Ukraine not being part of any military-political block and waiting for her to disintegrate, with eventually some Eastern parts requiring a sanitation from Ukism and Svidomism and may be then considering taking those as agricultural appendices to Russia. Anything West of Kiev can go a fvck itself any way it wants. Poland, Hungary and Romania surely have their own ideas on all that. Most importantly, and that is what many do not understand in the West, Ukrainstvo as such is not accepted anymore by Russians as a viable phenomenon. In other words, Russians do not want to deal with Ukraine or Ukrainians, unless those want to “re-wire” themselves in Russians which is an impossible task for uneducated, brain-washed generation of Ukies. The most important and historically and geopolitically significant and positive fact of all that is Russia and Russians’ ridding themselves of the false, largely mythical, idea that Ukrainians are somehow “brotherly” people for Russians–they are not, even despite obviously PC (for media) statements by Putin. Everyone understands everything in Russia on that account.

    why the “hard-liners in Moscow” are increasingly upset with Putin’s “passivity in the face of American aggression.”

    I don’t know who are those “hard-liners” Cohen is talking about, but if he means some fringe so called “communists” or even “fringier” so called “nationalists” (mostly clowns)–they cannot provide pressure nor sensible competent rationale for them “being upset” (enough to take a look at “analysis” by Girkin (aka Strelkov) which is an Ehbit A of delusions), most of them just BSers who are merely posers and nothing more. I don’t think that Putin is under any serious real pressure (who, Zyuganov or Girkin–that is comical) whoever those “hardliners” are. Gerasimov or Patrushev’s words separately have more meaning that all those “hardliners’” BS combined. Again, Putin is just the tip of the iceberg of Russian siloviki who already proved that they know what they are doing, enough to take a look at present day geopolitical balance.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
    , @anon
    , @refl
  121. Emslander says:
    @Exile

    The people in Washington and Tel Aviv who are playing these games with potentially millions of American & Russian lives are psychopaths who in a sane world would be tried for war crimes for the acts they have already committed, much less those they contemplate or risk setting in motion.

    U.S. Foreign Service Officers who work to provide fewer reasons for U.S. military intervention overseas get nowhere in the profession. Those who are feeding the great military maw with made-up conflicts can pretend that they are men, regardless of their gender or proclivities, and achieve career advancements.

    Peace gives no one a chance to make good profits or travel like kings into countries that pay them homage. This is a real syndrome. Study closely the people you are seeing these days at the impeachment circus. They need attention from their daddies.

  122. Realist says:

    Here is an excellent article on who and what the Deep State is. It also addresses why the US is interfering in Ukrainian affairs.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/11/14/understanding-the-deep-states-propaganda/

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  123. @Colin Wright

    What happens to the interest of US politicians in the Ukraine if Russia agrees to dump Syria?

    Russia will not throw Syria to the wolves. Setting aside the folly of any such move, one of Putin’s hallmarks over the years is that he greatly values loyalty and dependability. This sometimes means that he sticks with incompetent or questionable people far too long (e.g. former Ukrainian president Yanukovich), but on the upside, it also means that everyone knows the rules of the game.

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov, Denis
  124. Richard P says:

    The answer to this question is rather simple…because the United States hates Traditionalism and is meddling in the Eastern Orthodox Church’s affairs in order to weaken it because the ROC is the backbone of Russia. It’s appalling what the CIA and State Department are doing. They want the last bastions of authentic Christianity to succumb to the West’s secular ways. Just look what’s recently transpired in Georgia, Serbia, and other Eastern Orthodox nations.

    Patriarch Kirill Warns That US Agents Working Overtime to Create Schism in Orthodox Church!

    Kirill, Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia: “We have certain, reliable information that everything that is happening in the global Orthodox Church today is not accidental. It’s not just a whim of this or that religious figure whose mind just got obscured, to put in mildly. This is an implementation of a very definite plan that is pursuing two goals: first, to segregating Russia from the Greek world and the Greek world from Russia”.

    https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3202025

    Russia-Ukraine Tensions Set Up the Biggest Christian Schism Since 1054

    “A smaller church would undermine Moscow’s effort to call itself the protector of all Orthodox Christians and the so-called Third Rome, after the loss of Rome in the original Christian schism and then Constantinople (now Istanbul) to the Muslim Ottomans in 1453.

    Perhaps more important, it would blunt Mr. Putin’s attempt to portray his government as a reincarnation of the old czarist empire.”

    https://moskovskievesti.ru/ukrainian-church/

    America’s Ongoing War Against the Orthodox Church

    “The US policy is transparent: the Orthodox Church must be brought into line with Western Secularism, as was the Vatican in the 1960s. Clearly, the USA is run by atheists. But the US atheist elite has never yet heard about how the atheist Soviet Union fell in one night: Here today, gone tomorrow. Have they not read of the fate of Babylon? MENE, MENE, TEKEL, PARSIN…Belshazzar’s feast is coming to an end. You have been warned.”

    https://russian-faith.com/persecution/americas-ongoing-war-against-orthodox-church-n2588

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  125. annamaria says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    “Let’s not forget basic history here.”

    — RAY McGOVERN: Ukraine For Dummies: https://consortiumnews.com/2019/11/14/ray-mcgovern-ukraine-for-dummies/#comments
    Comments:

    House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff led off the proceedings with this: “In 2014, Russia invaded a United States ally, Ukraine, to reverse that nation’s embrace of the West, and to fulfill Vladimir Putin’s desire to rebuild a Russian empire…””

    Schiff disgraces himself, his party, everyone who listened and did not speak up, and the institutions where he acts, for all time to come.

    “Ukraine’s War on Donbass: “The Truth is the First Victim of War” By Max Fadeev and Eva Bartlett:

    “After the Crimean referendum, and beginning in March 2014, Ukraine started to amass armed forces in Donbass, deploying heavy armaments and artillery.

    The illegitimate government of Ukraine declared anti-terrorist operation (ATO) in the Donetsk, Lugansk and Kharkov regions, although the protests in the east of Ukraine were mirroring the events in Kiev and western regions several months earlier…

    On May 2, people were burnt alive in Odessa in the House of Trade Unions, and on the same day in Slavyansk for the first time the Ukrainian military started to fire at the people, who blocked their way.

    Referendum in Crimea, by Eva Bartlett: https://www.mintpressnews.com/return-russia-crimea-story-referendum-lives-since/262247/

    Holodomor:

    On 13 January 2010, Kiev Appellate Court posthumously found Kaganovich, Postyshev, Kosior, Chubar and other Soviet Communist Party functionaries guilty of genocide against Ukrainians during the catastrophic Holodomor famine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

    Lazar Kaganovich was born to Jewish parents in the village of Kabany, Kiev Governorate. …
    Pavel Postyshev was born in Ivanovo-Voznesensk, Vladimir gubernia, Russia
    Stanisław Kosior was born to a Polish family…
    Chubar was from an ethnic Ukrainian family…

  126. Defense spending is used to protect the rich from harm. The voters vote to spend their taxes on the military. The love of weapons here is the same for Ukrainians over there. Love of war and mass murder is called a cultural affinity with universal appeal.

    We saw love yesterday during the carefully choreographed psyop where Trump’s behavior was alleged to have caused the death of the good guys because he played the overpriced weapons card, instead of the more widely approved race card. A compelling performance from the American mafia. Digging up the carefully programmed memory of Oliver North and making a patriot-deranged soap opera out of military aid and rigged elections. Now that the shoe is on the other foot confused Americans will embrace evil and call themselves brave patriots. Patriots love their own slavery and call themselves free. What to think? What to believe? Oh my.

  127. S says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Putin is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and one smooth operator.

    Looking at the article you linked to I should clarify my ‘agreement’.

    While Putin’s credentials regarding ‘nationalism’ are ultimately quite questionable (as are Trump’s), and I do think there is an alluded to manufactured and controlled dialectic at play since 1776 and 1789 respectively between a senior Capitalism and a junior Communism, I disagree with it’s lack of commentary about Capitalism and Anglo-Saxon elite involvement.

    I suppose this blind spot in the US and UK, even amongt those expressing various nationalist beliefs, is because these two powers (for the moment) are still in existance. Many of these US nationalists will even state their firm belief in Capitalism, though it’s been Capitalism that has brought many of their woes upon them.

    To myself, Capitalism and nationalism together are every bit as oxymoronic as trying to mix Communism with nationalism, ie the unfortunate National Bolshevism, and I question very much if this mixing can even be done.

    Commerce is very important to be sure, just not above every last thing as with Capitalism.

    I’ve read about Soviet defectors to the US such as the Mig 25 pilot Viktor Belenko and Anatoly Golitsyn with his (I think) legitimate ‘warnings’, not to mention Paulus after the surrender at Stalingrad in 1943 declaring to a Soviet officer that Communists and National Socialists should not be fighting each other, that Capitalism was both of their system’s actual true enemy.

    And of course there’s been US defectors to the Soviet Union and its bloc, such as Lee Harvey Oswald, amongst others.

    I’ve wondered at times what any of these persons might of thought were they fully aware that the heaviest hitters in the creation of the 1776 Capitalist American revolution, ie the Anglo-Saxons Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and apparently Ben Franklin as well, were also heavily involved in the creation of the 1789 French Communist Revolution as well?

    What might Stalin have thought?

  128. S says:
    @Alden

    The plans were made, land purchased and work begun in 1900, discontinued in 1914 when war began and finished by the bolsheviks 20 years after the revolution and civil war.

    Were those the Bolsheviks working under FDR with his Tennessee Valley Authority or were those the Bolsheviks of the old Soviet Union? 😉

  129. Anon12 says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    I dont normally comment here but your photo was taken during the Bengal famine of 1943. Shame on you.

    https://qz.com/india/1090508/have-we-forgotten-the-starvation-plundering-and-sheer-brutality-of-colonialism/

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
  130. @Andrei Martyanov

    Thanks, Andrei. You provided much more information than I could comprehend. I very much appreciate your taking so much time in answering my query.

  131. renfro says:
    @annamaria

    There’s more than oligarch influence in the US re Ukraine.
    There’s a very active Ukraine American cabal in the US working for Ukraine.
    With ties to the Dems.

    Which is why the Dems won’t let the Repubs call Ukraine activist and Dem contractor , Alexandra Chalups to be questioned in the hearings.
    If they did we would all find out that the Dems colluded with the Ukraine to get dirt on Trump and have the Ukraine officals publically say Manafort was working with the Russians.

    Read about DNC contractor Alexandra Chalupa , Ukraine American activist for Ukraine.

    Ukrainian Embassy confirms DNC contractor solicited Trump dirt in 2016
    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/441892-ukrainian-embassy-confirms-dnc-contractor-solicited-trump-dirt-in-2016
    excerpts

    ”Telizhenko (at US Ukraine Embassy) said that when he was told by the embassy to arrange the meeting, both Chaly and the ambassador’s top deputy identified Chalupa “as someone working for the DNC and trying to get Clinton elected.”
    Chalupa told Telizhenko in stark terms what she hoped the Ukrainians could provide the DNC and the Clinton campaign, according to his account.
    “She said the DNC wanted to collect evidence that Trump, his organization and Manafort were Russian assets, working to hurt the U.S. and working with [Russian President Vladimir] Putin against the U.S. interests. She indicated if we could find the evidence they would introduce it in Congress in September and try to build a case that Trump should be removed from the ballot, from the election,” he recalled.
    Telizhenko said that as he began his research, he discovered that Fusion GPS was nosing around Ukraine, seeking similar information, and he believed they, too, worked for the Democrats.
    For a Democratic Party that spent more than two years building the now disproven theory that Trump colluded with Russia to hijack the 2016 election, the tale of the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington feels just like a speeding political boomerang.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  132. Sparkon says:
    @Alden

    No, that’s really misleading about the electrification, and completely wrong about industrialization. Both began under the Tsars, but on a modest scale.

    Tsarist Russia was an agrarian country and the world’s largest exporter of wheat from 1861-1914. Electrification of the country in that period beginning in the 1880s was confined almost entirely to the cities and the military.

    After the revolution, during the 1920s, the Soviets brought in Western engineers, primarily American, to supervise construction of massive new industrial complexes, some beyond the Urals and in other remote regions. Already by 1921, the Soviets began preparing for a big new war.

    In 1920, Lenin and the Soviets promulgated the GOELPRO plan.

    The falls of the Dnieper River, once dominated by a fortress of Ukrainian Cossacks, was chosen as the site of the most ambitious of the new construction schemes, a mammoth hydroelectric plant and regional complex. […]

    American companies supplied equipment and engineers. International General Electric built five of the nine giant generators needed; the rest were built in Leningrad under American supervision. The Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock Company constructed the nine 85,000-horsepower turbines, the world’s largest. German and Swedish firms assumed responsibility for other major items, but about 70 percent of the hydroelectric equipment was American. Steam shovels, hoists, locomotives, rock drills, and construction steel also came from the United States. […]

    Construction, by tens of thousands of workers, began in 1927. On May 1, 1932, the V. I. Lenin power station was dedicated and began operation as the largest hydroelectric plant in the world.

    https://www.americanheritage.com/how-america-helped-build-soviet-machine

    According to Wikipedia, total national electrical power output increased from 1.9 billion kWh in Imperial Russia in 1913, to 8.8 billion kWh in 1931, reaching 13.5 billion kWh by the end of the first five-year plan in 1932, 36 billion kWh by 1937, and 48 billion kWh by 1940.

  133. Haha says:
    @JVC

    “Is there any little speck of land on the entire planet that isn’t of “strategic importance” to the” US?

    Nope, none. Matter of fact, don’t you see how important the sun, the moon, the stars, and the entire galaxy are to the national security of the US?

  134. “The short but essential answer is Washington’s decision, taken by President Bill Clinton in the 1990s, to expand NATO eastward from Germany and eventually to Ukraine itself.”

    The more likely answer is as a quid pro quo by George Bush for participating in the coalition to topple Saddam Hussein.

  135. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Again, Putin is just the tip of the iceberg of Russian siloviki who already proved that they know what they are doing, enough to take a look at present day geopolitical balance.

    This is good to hear, especially in view of speculation here (propaganda?) that Russia would return to 1990’s status after Putin.

  136. This is not a Ukrainian-Russian war. Ukrainian regime is not fighting the Russian army. It is fighting rebels backed by Russia.

    The distinction is significant. If we are to accept Cohen’s terminology, we must also accept that US has been at war with Syria since 2011. As a matter of fact, American footprint in Syria has been far greater, than Russian footprint in the Ukraine, yet nobody calls it “Syrian-American war”.

  137. @Richard P

    The ZUS worships satan and is controlled by satanist zionists and if they ever get our guns , they aka the zionist bolshevik communists will unleash a blood letting in America just as they did in Russia with the communist revolution, they hate Christians and that is why they are at war with Christians in America and Russia.

    • Replies: @Richard P
  138. Durruti says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Let me make it clear more plainly. Russia does not give rats arse about Ukraine, and the same to the certain extent even applies to Bielorussia. For Russia only important thing is to have a peaceful and friendly relation with Germany.

    You have a tendency to – over generalize.

    Russia, (the Russian Political leaders, & the Russian People), obviously care deeply about the fate of Russian People & their Lands that used to be unified within their Nation. The Ukraine & Bielorussia are rich countries, with many resources, including rich farmlands & water supplies.

    The Russian Leaders should have re-occupied the Ukraine – at the first sight of Zionist puppet Ms. Nuland & American Traitor John McCain in Kiev. Kiev is the birthplace of Russia. Putin hesitated, or was restrained, and he was fortunate to Liberate the Crimea.

    Additionally, Kazakstan must not be left out in the Vaccuum of space. Kazakstan even rents a Military Base to the Zionist Americans – which they use for, among other things, as a supply point to protect their Opium Fields in Afghanistan.

    Agreed: Germany has always been the obvious trading and political partner for Russia. Unfortunately, History has not been kind to that hope.

    There is only 1 way to handle Imperialist Invaders.

  139. Baron says:

    Since WW2, the one and one and only foreign policy goal of the American Governing Elite (the Shadow Government of which the Donald isn’t a part) has been to keep Russia and Germany from coupling up. That’s it, anything else is of secondary importance.

    Ukraine could serve as a geographical buffer, a divider, a land barrier for the coupling, hence the Governing Elite will do its utmost to prevent Ukraine and Russia making up, curing the two boils of Crimea and Donbas.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  140. Richard P says:
    @DESERT FOX

    Absolutely. As I’ve said before, we’ll become the White Negroes of the 21st Century.

  141. Agent76 says:

    The question for the shortest answer would be where is America not intstesd.

    May 15, 2017 Ukraine: US-Installed Fascist Rule in Europe’s Heartland

    Ukraine is “the decisive linchpin in plans by the US and its NATO allies to effect a military cordon sanitaire, severing Russia from Europe” – a sinister plot perhaps intended as prelude to nuclear war.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-us-installed-fascist-rule-in-europes-heartland-will-donetsk-rejoin-russia/5590150

    Sep 9, 2016 US funded Ukrainian army is terrorizing civilians, 2016

    Russell Bentley is a former US marine, that now fights for the Donbass, Eastern Ukraine, against the US-funded Ukrainian army.

  142. @Charles Carroll

    The people who hate and wish to destroy the Germans as a people and a civilized advanced society, achieved their goal only just recently with the massive Muslim/Third World immivasion of Germany and its neighbors.

  143. @Alden

    Good analysis, sir. Only quibble is that sadly, there are fewer of those beautiful Ukrainian young women with each passing year, as their population ages and dwindles –even before accounting for emigration. Anyone who wants a Ukrainian wife should hurry up.

  144. voicum says:
    @utu

    You are , probably, a young fellow,,, It is “a listener is asking Radio Erevan…..

  145. @Baron

    the two boils of Crimea and Donbas

    As a matter of fact, there is only one boil: Donbass. Crimea was lucky: there actually were Russian troops in Crimea, so it escaped the madhouse and nobody was killed.
    Here is one of many Russian jokes about Ukraine.
    A Ukrainian is asked:
    – If you say that Crimea belongs to Ukraine, why don’t you fight for it?
    – We are not mad. There are Russian troops there.
    – But you say that there are Russian troops in Donbass, and yet you fight…
    – That’s what we say. But in Crimea, there really are Russian troops.

    • Agree: Robjil
  146. @Durruti

    Let me explain to you as I view the situation. At start I have opinion that Hitlers main failure was that he could be easily provoked.
    What is happening is the Globalists first and most important point is to provoke Putin into action.
    Russian military would have no problem to descend on Kiev and end the rule of Ukis fascists,
    But the result of it would be monumental propaganda attack on Russia, the same time there would be propaganda attack on western Europe, in a sense that we told you so you cannot trust those Ruskies and you will see that you will be next.
    In latest Trump visit to Europe Trump under Orders of Globalist complained that EU countries do not spend enough on military. European countries do not want war and neither want Russia.
    So in a way Globalist created putsch in Ukraine to lure for Russia to act.
    But Putin is not biting. Hitler in his place would be furious, But Putin is cool and he realizes that not even ten Ukraine’s would not be worth to Putin to shake confidence of western Europe in him.
    So does not matter how much Globalist salivate and provoke Russia,
    ………………………………………………………..
    And anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Ukraine for Russia would be only economic burden.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    But I am not claiming never Ukraine, maybe there will come time for Russians to act, but Russia must be very careful that western Europe will not see it as a blatant aggression.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  147. @AnonFromTN

    This formative experience will end Ukranian гонор once and for all.
    I watched Zelensky on tv a week or two ago when he was saying how Ukraine sent the first satellite into space and all same nonsense around we dug the black sea topic. I laughed a lot. Clearly to clean such nonsense from people heads long spanking is advised.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Skeptikal
  148. @Sergey Krieger

    Yea, many Ukrainian propaganda pieces sound to a normal person like a report from a lunatic asylum. I wonder whether the residents of that unfortunate territory are really dumb enough to believe this BS, or whether they just pretend, afraid that that otherwise they will be arrested and tortured by the Ukrainian equivalent of Gestapo (SBU).

  149. Durruti says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Ukraine for Russia would be only economic burden.

    That is not true. The Ukraine is rich in Farmland, Water, Coal, & has an intelligent &, unfortunately, long suffering people.

    A free Ukraine, united with Russia if possible, would be a burden to no one. The Ukraine, like Russia, is a beautiful place. Unfortunately, it is temporarily under Zionist-Imperialist occupation.

    You are a very intelligent person, and it will be a pleasure, to both argue & agree with you – in the future.

    Durruti

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  150. annamaria says:
    @renfro

    The irony is, the committed banderists Chalupas have been cooperating, very effectively, with ziocons, thus serving as useful tools for the kind of people the banderites despise almost as much as Russians.
    As for the ziocons, they (for the time being) have been suffering amnesia and agnosia re the banderites’ neo-nazi habits; the Jewish State even has been arming the self-proclaimed neo-nazi with Israel-made rifles. The ADL approves the support for the neo-Nazi. So much for the holobiz memes.
    The banderites have a fantastic dream that after “using” the ziocons, the banderites will establish their banderite state. “Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.”

  151. refl says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I write on this for years now: Russian-American “game” since 08-08-08 was not regional under any circumstances, it was and is global.

    My question is, when did this become obvious? – or was it simply obvious all the time?
    I remember thinking after the six day war in Georgia, that the really messy thing was to start over Ukraine in a couple of years – and I am a mediocre thinker who in those days was still proud to read the New York Times.

    What did people think, who had the real information? In 2006 German ex chancellor Gerhard Schröder arose a scandal by taking up a job with Gazprom,which in retrospect might have been the last sensible action undertaken by a German political leader. Arround 2000 there was a scandal in Germany, because the Greens, who had taken charge of the Foreign ministry in 1998 had started to generously hand out visas to Ukrainians of all people. By now, that former peacenik party – it was them who were most active in the 1980s peace movement – has become the most Russia-bashing party that we have here.

    And indeed, it was right for the Russian armed forces not to march on Kiew in 2014. It would have become messy at some point. It is far better to let the western entity take credit for the disaster that is playing out now.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  152. APilgrim says:

    Peace through a strong military defense, is a long-standing and wise policy.

    Ethnic homelands often exhibit political stability.

    So, I favor well-armed ethnic-homelands over present national boundaries. The dissolution of India, USSR, Yugoslavia, Sudan, British-Empire, & Greater-Syria suit me fine. Israel, Pakistan, & Kurdistan are great examples for well-armed ethnic-homelands. Iraq is an example of disastrous colonial boundaries, encompassing multi-ethnic groups.

  153. old farta says:

    My neighborhood received a lot of Ukrainians, most certainly a payoff to some lousily political hack.

  154. Mike-SMO says:

    Great pictures of Grand Ideologies. “Magical Thinking.” I take a “street-level” view. The Ukraine was just another “diverse” neighborhood where the Democrats/corruptocrats/progs/etc could stir up trouble while they stole everything that wasn’t too big to carry. Sort of like Chicago, Saint Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia but with tanks and an air force. They were in it for the cash and nearly started a war with Russia. Stealing the gas that Russia was shipping to Europe through the Ukraine was stupid but predictable.

    The Ukraine was the battlefield between the Russian Empire, the Turkish Empire, and the Polish-Lithowainian Empire (who knew?). There have been ethnic Russians in the east of the Ukraine for about a millenium, but a big percentage of those in the Ukraine today were Russians sent by the Soviets to replace the 6-12 million Ukrainian “Kulaks” (small holders, yeomen) murdered in the early 1930s (Holodomor). Russians (Slavs, Russian Orthodox) don’t like the ethnic Ukrainians (Russyn, Tar-tar, Ukrainian Orthodox, and Church of Rome) but Russia is determined to keep its naval base in the Crimea. The early government was “pro-Russian” and treated the “Ukrainians” like crap. The corruptocrats installed a “pro-western”, “pro-NATO” government that paid cash for Democratic support while they got “pay-back” on the Russians. Rodina (Mother Russia) stepped into that fight on its way to the Crimea, murdering more Ukrainians along the way, just to keep in practice. I read that most of the weapons that the U.S. sent to the Ukraine are “defensive” like TOW missiles that are great for defense but marginal for blitzkreig. Overunning the Ulraine or the Donbass would be a bloody exercise. The current Ukrainian government does not seem to want the ethnic Russians back and the Russians don’t want those Tar-tar savages. In the battle of Dier az Zor (variously spelled), Syria, the U.S. made an air armada appear from the empty sand and showed what happens to conventional Russian ground forces.

    So it is time to sit down, have a few drinks and discuss possible futures. (Who brought the kalachki?)

    Sort like a Trump, “Let’s make a deal”. All the little bits have been nibbled away and a big bite could be the last one, too expensive for anybody. I ain’t worried about the Joos. Only China and Iran would benefit if this goes side-ways. Do you think that having the pedo al_Baghdadi run down by war dogs under the watchful eyes of the Turks and Russians was a surprise to anyone except the Corruptocrats? (And to al_Baghdadi, of course.)

    Chill with the magical theories; it sounds like the “Big Boys” got this covered.

  155. @Durruti

    Thank you very much for compliment. I am really touched. But sometime appearance of intelligence is a result of lifetime of observations and evaluations (I am a great grandmother)
    I did have a laugh a little bit when somebody on this site did call me a Miss.

  156. Skeptikal says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    Maybe it was a comedy shtick?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  157. @Skeptikal

    Now, that’s a thought. First and foremost, Ze is a clown. The fact that Kolomoisky chose him to be his puppet and really gullible people thought that he’d make a better president than previous unfunny clown is secondary.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  158. Z-man says:
    @nokangaroos

    I gotta another one for you. Squeeze them into a ‘greater Moldova’. They’ll have to deal with angry Russians, Ukrainians and Rumanians. I love it!!!

  159. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:

    Pushback with Aaron Maté: Professor Stephen F. Cohen warns that the US military assistance at the heart of Ukrainegate escalates the US-Russia Cold War.

    Ukrainegate impeachment saga worsens US-Russia Cold War

  160. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Clown’s main role is to distract. Clowns are used to fill time and space with ‘comedy‘ while other things happen, or as a time-out. Selling Ukraine’s farm-land (its main asset) requires some distractions.

    But clowns also have a secondary role: to tell uncomfortable truths. Ze. is too soft for that, he looks like he wants to run away. The latest imbroglio with the US high politics is an absolute disaster for Ukraine, there is no way to come out unscathed when you are a disposable tool for more powerful groups. So far the real loser is Porky, how is he going to slip into a quiet exile now? But Ze., Kolomoisky, and pretty much the whole leadership class in Kiev are now in cross-hairs. This is about to get even more ugly. That’s what happens when petty crooks attempt to sell a country and can’t deliver. The repo man shows up.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  161. @refl

    My question is, when did this become obvious? – or was it simply obvious all the time?
    I remember thinking after the six day war in Georgia, that the really messy thing was to start over Ukraine in a couple of years –

    First signs were when Putin, Shroeder and Chirac provided a unified front against 2003 criminal invasion of Iraq. But the real turning point was Putin’s 2007 Munich Speech. You may look it up on Youtube and see for yourself the smug face expressions by McCain and other American representatives to Putin’s words. After Libya everyone of real consequence n Moscow lost remaining respect and trust in the US. It was a sort of protracted process. After Libya it became patently clear that the US is not agreement capable.

    because the Greens, who had taken charge of the Foreign ministry in 1998 had started to generously hand out visas to Ukrainians of all people. By now, that former peacenik party – it was them who were most active in the 1980s peace movement – has become the most Russia-bashing party that we have here.

    As any environmental party or movement anywhere, Greens are not real party, they are totalitarian globalist cult and are the symptom of the mental and economic woes of nations who have them as a viable political force. German Greens are clear and present danger to Germany and German people. Same as AOC in the US–a deranged psycho.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @refl
  162. “Why Are We in Ukraine?”

    Indeed.

    But why are you in Afghanistan?

    Why did you help destroy Libya?

    Why start the terror in Syria?

    Why were you ever in Vietnam, destroying three million souls?

    Why encourage the destruction in Yemen?

    Why are you attacking democratic Venezuela?

    Because, it is all stuff that bullies do.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @Richard P
  163. kikz says:
    @A123

    A123:
    “Soros has Jewish parents, but abandoned the faith of his forebearers. He actively supports the BDS movement, which is dedicated to exterminating millions of Jews.”

    oh really/ he’s such a threat to da jooooooz…… yeah, right, sure…. rather odd that those elite squadies of nazi hunter fame, who braved the jungles of SA to hunt them down…. can’t seem to find/neutralize him???????????? your disingenuousness is almost amusing.

    if …..his fingers are ‘supporting BDS’ efforts…. they tactically assure the ‘phantom menace’ supposedly stalking the US today… the hordes of ‘anti-semities’ gives credence/justification to their tribal whinings of ‘we don’t feel safe’ and demands to have American bought/paid for legislators outlaw any critique of them via free speech. it’s Hegelian strategy 101.

    • Agree: refl
  164. @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    It is all stuff that the zionist controlled ZUS does under satanic demonic draconian diabolical zionist control.

  165. Richard P says:
    @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    Because, it is all stuff that bullies do.

    Indeed. Just like how bullies murdered 300,000 innocent refugees by firebombing Dresden in 1945 in addition to committing a megacaust against their own brothers throughout the European Theater of WWII.

    And how these same bullies cowered when the Bolsheviks were committing genocide against 62+ million Orthodox Christians.

    The United States along with her most ardent allies (Israel and the United Kingdom), aren’t freedom fighters, but rather they’re extortionary bullies.

  166. @Beckow

    Ukrainians believe that stealing is patriotic. Their logic is “When Putin comes, he’d see that everything is already stolen”. They believe that this logic applies to any repo man.

  167. @Andrei Martyanov

    But the real turning point was Putin’s 2007 Munich Speech.

    Putin told in Munich exactly what he is going to do, and then proceeded to do just that. Putin is confusing Western politicians to this day by telling the truth. It is against Western political culture to do what you say: politicians are believed to be professional liars, and they believe themselves that they cannot utter a word of truth and remain successful politicians.
    This is best expressed by a joke:
    – How do you know the politician is lying?
    – His lips are moving…

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
  168. @Colin Wright

    ‘What would you say is Israel’s backyard?’

    Capitol Hill.

    Birobidzhan.
    Way more land than Palestine, lots of fresh water, arable land, big forests and the great neighbours of China and Russia. Surrounding them.

    They wouldn’t be able to do Jack Shit!

  169. Stalin starved 20 million Ukranians to death.

    Stalin forcibly deported thousands more and many TarTar’s to Siberia.

    Ukraine lost Crimea only because the waves of Czarist Russian and Communist invasions supplanted and outnumbered the minority Ukrainian population and the Russians voted to leave Ukraine.

    Then Russian troops, laughably “ON VACATION,” invaded eastern Ukraine to support other majority Russian regions to break away.

    Ukraine, Poland, Hungary, Finland, Esonia, Latvia and Lithuania have their own language, history and culture.

    Ukraine, Poland, Hungary, Finland, Esonia, Latvia and Lithuania have centuries of very good reasons to despise and hate anything Russian.

    I do to.

    Seven Russian whino chess playing expats living in Central Park, NYC have claimed the park for mother Russia. A little help from Demo☭rats and the Russian Whino’s can stage a coup.

  170. mcohen says:

    I love the sound of thunder that comes from plunder,in the morning

  171. refl says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    There is probably a little more about the Greens. They are the unique case of a party that rose to prominence on a national level in Cold War federal Germany after the establishment of the long time party system in the Adenauer era. It is simply unconceivable that such a thing would have happened without them being undermined by US intelligence from the very start. I am thinking about Rudi Dutschkes american wife, the strange deaths of Petra Kelly (half American) and her husband Gerd Bastian (former Bundeswehr general) in their home in Bonn in 1992 and things like that.
    When the peace movement was active in the 1980s it always came with the admonition attached to it that in the Soviet Bloc people were not free to oppose nuclear armament. The east German opposition modelled itself much on the West German Greens. Then there is their peculiar position towards pedophilia in their early years that is having a huge revival right now, their afinity to left wing terrorism and the like.
    It makes one wonder what AFD has in store for us once they overcome their current pariah status (just in case we don’t get toasted altogether before that happens).

  172. @CharlieSeattle

    Wow! Rare lunatic asylum can boast this kind of storytelling. Congrats!

  173. @annamaria

    plus this: “The Leading Bolsheviks:” https://archive.org/details/SolzhenitsynYouMustUnderstandTheLeadingBolsheviksWhoTookOverRussiaWereNotRuss

    Hint: one of the reasons the United States is in a deep shit geopolitically and will continue to descend even more into it vis-a-vis Russia is because US establishment, bar few true Russia scholars, is “educated” on Solzhenitsyn (or Rezun), who is one of the greatest falsifiers of Russia’s history of the XX century. In fact, it is bad tone to bring this persona into any discussion on Russia’s political fates. Another hint: you don’t know who Solzhenitsyn was–you are simply insulated from Russian-language environment to know. This kind of “history” belongs in Karlin’s blog or in other pseudo-“academy” departments. Together with Robert Conquest and other Cold War 1.0 shysters. There is no principle difference between Solzhenitsyn, Masha Gessen or Max Boot since they operate from different starting points but ultimately end up in one and the same.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @AnonFromTN
  174. @CharlieSeattle

    Stalin forcibly deported thousands more and many TarTar’s to Siberia.

    He also transported many Ranch, Blue Cheese and Cole Slaw to Siberia. While in reality many of Crimean Tatars, Chechens and Kalmyks were transported to Kazakhstan, which is not exactly a Siberia. Still brutal climate but not Siberia. Steppes mostly.

  175. @Andrei Martyanov

    I wouldn’t even give Solz credit for being the greatest liar in the twentieth century Russian history. Say, Conquest was a much bigger liar, and there were more like him. The most interesting thing about Solz is that he was in WIP camps, he never was in the real tough camps where the majority of prisoners were (say, like those described by Shalamov, who actually was there). So, even his best (from literary perspective) thing “One day in life of Ivan Denisovich” is not based on personal knowledge and has a lot of gaffes. The fact that Solz claimed that he wanted to be at the front, but in reality moved farther and farther away from places were bullets and shells fly, and that he spent his incarceration exclusively in WIP camps in highly privileged conditions (like Bandera in German custody), and a number of other things led many people to believe that he was NKVD spy. I don’t know whether this is true, but he certainly was a lying scoundrel, just like Rezun (who even lies about his name – calls himself “Suvorov”).

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  176. @AnonFromTN

    The most interesting thing about Solz is that he was in WIP camps, he never was in the real tough camps where the majority of prisoners were (say, like those described by Shalamov, who actually was there). So, even his best (from literary perspective) thing “One day in life of Ivan Denisovich” is not based on personal knowledge and has a lot of gaffes.

    This is not to mention that Solzhenitsyn had almost physiological attraction to traitors and deserters: Ivan Denisovich was a deserter, the whole thing in the First Circle with Volodin–is highest treason. But the best litmus test is that he wasn’t that good of a writer to start with–good enough though to write scripts written not by him and using Vlasovite “sources” when writing about WW II. In the end he produced this epistolary saga to get arrested on purpose right before East Prussian, deadly, offensive reached its peak, with siege of Konigsberg being a nightmare, Solzh was already in the safety of imprisonment. But hey, his BS helped in the end–bunch of Westerners traveling to Russia expecting GULAG and Solzhenitsyn’s Russia (which never existed) are usually stunned into stupor when they see things with their own eyes. I personally was an eyewitness to this effect. But, yes Conquest is a one of those larger than life “historians” who makes Goebbels look almost amateur.

    • Replies: @refl
    , @Ron Unz
  177. refl says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I will believe any time that Solchenitsyn was not truthful about the gulag and stalinism. When I tried to read Archipel Gulag, only a complete idiot would not have noticed that. Still, the simple statement that the Bolsheviks hated the Russian people deserves merit and has to sink in with Westerners – if only to give them a slight chance of understanding who they are dealing with when they look at their own elite.

    And then there has to be some writer who makes it over the language barrier. If I was to decipher some text by a russian scholar and I end up with announcements that this or that scholar is a traitor or a liar or what you name it, it will inevitably turn me off. I mean, with Solchenitsyn the hints are clear in his emigrant biography. And then I fear that any Russian author who manages to endear himself with a western audience will at some point be called names at home.

  178. @refl

    Still, the simple statement that the Bolsheviks hated the Russian people deserves merit

    Some, certainly, did. This is not a question. The question is to not make sweeping generalizations on all of the so called Bolshevik movement which was not monolith at all, considering the fact that there was more than enough of Russia “haters” in SR. Unlike all of their political opponents, however, Bolsheviks nailed the key issue of Russian history–the land question. And then, of course, there is always this teeny-weeny (sarc) issue of Russo-Japanese War, Revolution of 1905-1907, and of WW I. As per Solzhenitsyn–I would even forgive him his fiction of GULAG Archipelago, however deranged this fantasy was (consider the fact that main anti-GULAG actor in Russia–Memorial society is officially now declared Foreign Agent entity), his issue with overwhelming majority of Russians not even in that. Apart from him lying all his life, he touched what mattered to every family–Great Patriotic War. All his life he was settling account namely with Russians (only a completely confused idiot can buy into Solzhenitsyn “loving Russia”)–expected from a person who, as a bulk of testimonies from his class-mates describe, would faint even after the most minor criticism towards him from his c;classmates. I was really sad that he died before he saw Immortal Regiment movement grow in Russia to a massive scale. But then again, from pedophile Bukovsky to unhinged Solzh to Rezun–combined West both have very low “morality” bar (not to mention lacks taste), but is literally, on the level of present powers that be is unteachable. That’s the issue.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @AnonFromTN
  179. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    If you are familiar with the book, “The Bolsheviks: The Intellectual and Political History of the Triumph of Communism in Russia,” by Adam Ulam, what is your opinion?

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  180. @anon

    I know who author was–American “political science” and Sovietology/Russian Study field is mostly a joke, with very few exceptions. I didn’t read this book nor am I going to waste my time on such narratives.

  181. Ron Unz says:
    @refl

    I will believe any time that Solchenitsyn was not truthful about the gulag and stalinism. When I tried to read Archipel Gulag, only a complete idiot would not have noticed that.

    Well, here’s simple question for all of you…

    I’ve always had a very positive impression of Solzhenitsyn and his Gulag Archipelago seemed quite realistic and persuasive to me. But what do I know? I’m not Russian, I can’t read Russian, and I don’t have access to the Soviet archives.

    However, consider Vladimir Putin. He is Russian, he reads Russian, and he has better access to the Soviet archives than anyone else in the world.

    All of you claim that Solzhenitsyn was a totally lying traitor to Russia and a fraud, while Gulag was an utterly dishonest fabrication. Okay. But then why would Putin have given Solzhenitsyn such a big public funeral when he died a decade ago, paid his personal respects to him while he was lying in state, and ordered that Gulag be made a required text in all Russian high schools?

    • Agree: PeterMX, DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    , @refl
  182. @Ron Unz

    All of you claim that Solzhenitsyn was a totally lying traitor to Russia and a fraud, while Gulag was an utterly dishonest fabrication. Okay. But then why would Putin have given Solzhenitsyn such a big public funeral when he died a decade ago, paid his personal respects to him while he was lying in state, and ordered that Gulag be made a required text in all Russian high schools?

    Ron, while at it–you also should know that monument to Solzhenisyn in Vladivostok was vandalized so many times that video-surveillance was installed. Same goes for its recent monument in Moscow, which is under surveillance 24/7 by several cameras. But if this fact could be assigned to, predictably, some deranged Russian “commies” (good enough for consumption of Western confused public), what can not be assigned is the fact of:

    1. Solzhenitsyn’s “public” funeral not only wasn’t very public, NTV and other Russia TV channels were pointing out an…absence of public at his funeral. Here is one such report.

    You can compare this with last send off applauds to great Soviet/Azerbaijani and Russian singer, Muslim Magomaev. That is how beloved people are sent off.

    2. To understand Putin’s game with Solzheintsyn (FYI, Putin is also a former Director of FSB) and his persona publicly, one has to have a good grasp what political and economic forces Putin had to balance early 2000s through even today. Without understanding WHO Solzhenitsyn actually is in Russia–almost impossible task for Westerner–within Russia’s political and cultural outlook today, one has to understand Russia’s history of the XX Century. Also, almost impossible task for most Westerners, especially Americans. Putin merely allows him to fade away, as usually he does with minor non-perspective pains in the ass, and new generation of Russians simply ignores Solzhenitsyn, despite Matrenin Dvor being included in program of senior classes literature in Russia–a boring, condescending scribble.

    3. Per Putin not giving a damn to Solzh, a funny moment–when visiting self-proclaimed “consciousness of Russia”, while in Solzh’s house Putin, looking at Stolypin’s portrait on the wall asked Solzh:”Is it your grandfather?”

    4. But to be more general–modern West doesn’t know Russia, doesn’t understand it and doesn’t really have faculties to do so.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Sparkon
  183. The absence of the word „Poland“ in Cohen‘s writings tells you everything you need to know about how shallow and biased his understanding of Ukraine is,

    The irony of the impeachment proceedings is that it was Trump‘s apparent obsession with Ukraine that has gotten him into trouble, not US involvement. The US hands out military aid all over the place. Ukraine was not a „pretext“ for the impeachment. It was Trump and Giuliani‘s conviction that the Ukrainian leadership was corrupt and weak enough to be pushed around that led Trump to try to bribe them in the first place.

    • Replies: @anon
  184. PeterMX says:
    @Robjil

    It bothered the Jews and their lying allies that Ukrainians and others from all across eastern Europe often welcomed the Germans as liberators from their murderous Jewsih leaders and when the Germans treated those they liberatwed well, partisan activity against the German army had to increase to which the Germans would inevitably take revenge but of course they could often not distinguish between ally and foe.

    I will bet you they don’t teach that in Russia, but more importantly, not in Ukraine. Ukraine should stand up for themselves, as others should against Jewish lies, then eventually a more balanced view of history would come out and the Jewish dirty deeds would be exposed and put the so called holocaust in a completely different light. German Jews were not quarantined until 1941, and this was done because they were avoowed enemies of Germany as expreswed in public speeches and acts by Jewish leaders and individuals.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  185. GMC says:
    @Alfred

    Of course I knew Tymoshenko was a thief , how else did she almost become a billionair-ess. But she was the only one with balls to to go deal with Putin when the Ukies needed to make another gaz deal with Russia – and the deal was the worst one I ever read – Like I said – I don’t know it all – but I still live in the same place I did in 08. Spacibo Alfred

    • Agree: Alfred
  186. Richard P says:

    Has anyone read Cancer Ward by Solzhenitsyn and if so, what were your impressions of this alleged masterpiece? It’s considered to be one of his greatest books.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/254316.Cancer_Ward

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  187. @Richard P

    Has anyone read Cancer Ward by Solzhenitsyn and if so, what were your impressions of this alleged masterpiece? It’s considered to be one of his greatest books.

    I still have his collection of works–I am categorically against burning books, unless they are some satanic manual–and to understand how mediocre and totally derivative Solzhenitsyn is, one has to know the actual level of Russian and Soviet literature. I admit, I keep his books, which I all read, with the exception of a completely talent-less and unreadable The Red Wheel, only for a purpose of referring to them when having discussions similar to this one. The same is with Cancer Ward–a completely contrived ethical “problem” in the foundation. Again, what people in the West refuse to acknowledge, because that will be tantamount to self-implication in being gullible ignoramuses is that Solzhenitsyn lied all his life and never reconciled his contempt to Russian people with his megalomania.

    • Replies: @Richard P
  188. Ahoy says:

    @ Andrei Maryanov #187

    In #4 in your comment you give very succinctly why America is in Ucraine.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  189. @refl

    The issue is not the audience. However, a big chunk of Western audience is brainwashed by globohomo propaganda to the point of having no brain.

    Any “writer” or “scholar” positioning himself as Russian who endears himself to Western globohomo elites is perceived in Russia as a liar and a traitor. For obvious reasons.

  190. @PeterMX

    Reading some pieces and comments here you get the impression that Nazis were nice and sweet innocent lambs undeservedly defamed by nasty Allies. I’ve heard a lot of things directly from the witnesses about what they did in the occupied parts of the USSR, but you begin thinking that maybe in other places they behaved like humans.

    Then driving to work you turn on Sirius XM classical music channel and hear the music of Hungarian composer Sándor Kuti, and next you learn that he was murdered by Nazis in Auschwitz. Then you hear the music of Czech composer Hans Krása, and next you learn that he also was murdered by Nazis in Auschwitz. At that point you realize that Nazis showed their true colors everywhere.

    Mind you, Nazi crimes do not make other criminals less guilty, but those who committed crimes remain criminals no matter what other criminals did.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  191. @Ahoy

    In #4 in your comment you give very succinctly why America is in Ucraine.

    My first book is about it–a removal of the only real geopolitical rival to the US capable to offer a civilizational alternative and the only one which is capable to wipe the United States from the map. Hence, Russia delenta est. Ukraine was thought to be one of the keys to this plan, which, of course, was created by amateurs and fell through immediately.

  192. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Ron, while at it–you also should know that monument to Solzhenisyn in Vladivostok was vandalized so many times that video-surveillance was installed. Same goes for its recent monument in Moscow, which is under surveillance 24/7 by several cameras…Solzhenitsyn’s “public” funeral not only wasn’t very public, NTV and other Russia TV channels were pointing out an…absence of public at his funeral. Here is one such report.

    Well, hadn’t the old USSR media spent many decades demonizing Solzhenitsyn as a horribly evil traitor, including the entire period you were growing up there? So couldn’t that easily explain why a substantial fraction of (mostly older) Russians still hated him in 2008, despite all the nice things Putin was saying about him by then?

    And also Solzhenitsyn was greatly lauded in the Western MSM during the 1970s, by the 1980s and later the coverage had become much more mixed or even sharply critical, as I distinctly remember. And after he published 200 Years Together in 2001, our (heavily Jewish) MSM was probably more stridently hostile to him than the Russian MSM, and was trying to turn him into an “un-person.” This surely must also have influenced some elements of the Russian MSM during the 2000s, which (I think) still had a certain amount of “Neocon” influence.

    So with the Neocons, Neolibs, and old Soviet types all seething with hatred towards Solzhenitysn by 2008, it’s not surprising that would have influenced elements of the ordinary Russian population, while Putin retained a more objective view based on his detailed knowledge of the true historical reality.

    As an analogy, for nearly all of American history, figures like Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus were among our greatest national heroes. Yet after a decade or two of ferociously PC MSM indoctrination, activists are regularly demanding that they be purged from our history and even defacing their statues.

    On the other question, I’d hardly reckon myself a great literary scholar, but back in the 1980s I read pretty much all of Solzhenisyn’s works, including The First Circle and Cancer Ward, and reconsidered them some of the finest novels I’d ever read, fully worthy of a world-famous Nobel Laureate.

  193. Ted Heath says:
    @peterAUS

    Clearly the Rothschilds are a front for one of the older ruling families that have run the world for the last 3,350 years.
    This chosen family run all national banks in the world apart from those in North Korea, Iran and Syria, consequently they have a stranglehold on all governments that do Israel’s bidding.
    In 1829 Rothschild Bank bought Jerusalem from the Ottoman Empire for a few pieces of silver. Who they bought it for is unclear, though the possibility is that the acted for themselves.
    They have been running kibbutzim in Palestine since the 1890s. Reported by many observers when Zionism was trying to get sponsored by the Germans, as the most miserable wretched places on earth. A small knowledge of Ukrainian Jewry would tell you this was the norm prior to WW2, Jews exploiting Jews…
    So it is a reasonable assumption to make that Rothschild is behind it all, bearing in mind that they are fronting for one of the major families, and should the shtf any day soon, they will be sacrificed along with all the other Jews that are trying to destroy Europe and Christianity.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  194. @Andrei Martyanov

    Memorial changed a lot in more than 30 years since its inception. It started by exposing Stalin’s crimes, which was justified and necessary. But when it started taking American money and serving the interests of the US, which murdered around the globe a lot more people than Stalin ever did, it lost all credibility.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  195. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    But, yes Conquest is a one of those larger than life “historians” who makes Goebbels look almost amateur.

    I’ll admit I never actually read any of Conquest’s books about the Stalin Era, though I was certainly aware of the enormous body-count he estimated. I think I have heard that after the Soviet archives were finally opened, he admitted that some of his estimates had been far too extreme, but that’s an inevitable risk in trying to tease out facts from an absolutely closed totalitarian society. And as far as I know, his revised estimates are still enormously horrific.

    But consider the perspective of Prof. Stephen Cohen. He’s certainly an eminent Russia scholar and most of his current views and analysis seem very sensible to me. Also, I remember that during the 1980s and 1990s, he was regularly vilified as a “pro-Soviet apologist” by Neocon-types, and he’s currently been purged from the MSM for supposedly being “a pro-Russian lackey.” He’s also sharply left-leaning, and his wife has been the longtime publisher of the leftwing Nation.

    On one of his recent broadcasts, Cohen seemed to praise Conquest as a great scholar and seemingly an objective one. I’m not a Russia expert so I can’t really evaluate Conquest, but Cohen certainly is, and I’d give considerable weight to his opinion.

    It seems to me that if Putin and Cohen both seem to agree about the Stalinist history presented by Solzhenitsyn/Conquest, they might not necessarily be correct, but that’s probably the way I’d personally bet…

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @AnonFromTN
  196. @Robjil

    Having been brutalized by Stalin many Ukrainians naturally welcomed the Nazis but after the war they had to answer to the ADL et al. Just look at the Demjaniuk business. Poor old man was never shown to be the monster they accused him of being, and the Nazi=hunters actually committed fraud on the court, forging false documents in order to convict him. He was tried in several countries for the same nebulous offense. If only we could put elderly ex-Communist guards on trial.

  197. @Ron Unz

    Suggest , you read Harvest of Sorrow, which is a documented revelation of zionist crimes against humanity.

  198. peterAUS says:
    @Ted Heath

    Clearly the Rothschilds are a front for one of the older ruling families that have run the world for the last 3,350 years.

    Sounds…..interesting.

    Would you be so kind as to tell me a bit more about how it worked during the times of Augustus?
    Like:
    Where were the places they worked from? Say…temple this/building that.
    Who were those guys? Just a dozen of them. Names, please. Like Schlomo Something. And titles, if possible.

    And, of course, for today.
    All the problems we’ve been having for, say, last 10 years are coming from those people, apparently.
    So…who, exactly, are they? Where are they?
    Would you be so kind as to write all that here, please?

    For practical reasons, of course.

    In this particular case, say, the USA and Russia get on the brink of M.A.D. All, apparently, carefully orchestrated by those types of yours….Rothschilds.
    So, one would conclude that if those types were to be removed maybe we wouldn’t get M.A.D. Or dead. Same thing.
    Consequently, either/both Americans and Russians could try to take those guys out. Arrest or worse (or better, depending on…anyway…).
    Say…Russians. Instead of getting M.A.D with the USA (all those MIRVs etc) they simply pay some thugs to pay those Rotchilds a visit. Or even send the Spetznaz. Or, in really bad case, simply drone/cruise missile those types. Save the world stuff.

    So….if you were Putin, where would you send those cruise missiles/Spetznaz/local thugs?
    Who would be the targets?

    Makes sense?

    Can’t wait……..

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  199. @Ron Unz

    Well, hadn’t the old USSR media spent many decades demonizing Solzhenitsyn as a horribly evil traitor, including the entire period you were growing up there? So couldn’t that easily explain why a substantial fraction of (mostly older) Russians still hated him in 2008, despite all the nice things Putin was saying about him by then?

    Wrong. He is primarily rejected today by youth. Here is one example out of many–a link to a purely entertainment web-site Yaplakal, the post Russia Against Solzhenitsyn. Overwhelming majority of its audience are young people and many are rather anti-Putin, yet. Look at the UP score. Sadly, I cannot translate all comments.

    http://www.yaplakal.com/forum1/topic1780649.html

    And this just one of very many examples. But here is the deal–even your question discloses, nothing personal, you know how I respect you, a serious lack of understanding that while Soviet propaganda DID “demonize” him, as it turned out it did “demonize” him pretty much correctly and most of charges turned out to be true. Plus, Russians (or Soviets) were not that dumb or “brainwashed” as it is universally accepted in the West, they could, let alone still can arrive to their own conclusions and judgement. There is a reason that one of the most popular sayings in Russia today sounds like this: All they (communists) told us about communism was a lie, all they told us about capitalism (in other iteration–the West) turned out to be absolute truth.(c) In the end “numbers do not lie”, Solzhenitsyn did, all his life.

    And also Solzhenitsyn was greatly lauded in the Western MSM during the 1970s, by the 1980s and later the coverage had become much more mixed or even sharply critical, as I distinctly remember. And after he published 200 Years Together in 2001, our (heavily Jewish) MSM was probably more stridently hostile to him than the Russian MSM, and was trying to turn him into an “un-person.” This surely must also have influenced some elements of the Russian MSM during the 2000s, which (I think) still had a certain amount of “Neocon” influence.

    The ONLY, I underscore it, the ONLY reason Solzhenitsyn wrote 200 Hundred Years Together was after him recognizing how irrelevant he became in Russia upon his staged (by BBC) “return” and how basically he was proven time after time wrong (and lying) upon opening of archives and actual professional historians, even from anti-communist and anti-Stalinist camps (e.g. Zemskov was a devout anti-Stalinist), who started to demolish his, often unhinged, scribbles. He knew 200 years Together will attract attention primarily in the West, while in Russia, with the exception of some pochevenniks and other, mostly fake, so called “nationalist” types, it didn’t make much splash among people. He is revered by the so called American (and some European) so called “alt-right” types because he fits well into their unhinged “Jews control my bowel movement” world-view, plus, US in particular is, indeed, a slap bitch of Israel and of the Jewish lobby. But then again, WASP “elites” sold US to Jews, so one reaps what one sows. Any projection of the same on Russia by mostly ignorant types, which are numerous on these discussion boards, is a sublimation of their complexes, but Russia and her Revolutions gestated deep within Russia’s XVIII-early XX history and Jews were merely a footnote in that process. But then again, most people in the West never read Tolstoy, Gogol, Saltykov-Shedrin or, at least, at minimum Isiah Berlin. Solzhenitsyn never was historian and, in fact, as his yet another manifesto The Russian Question In The End of the Twentieth Century testifies, lacked even basic skills characteristic of professional historian, not to mention having no idea how to operate and assess sources.

    So with the Neocons, Neolibs, and old Soviet types all seething with hatred towards Solzhenitysn by 2008, it’s not surprising that would have influenced elements of the ordinary Russian population, while Putin retained a more objective view based on his detailed knowledge of the true historical reality.

    Again, same, American condescending attitude–Russians are stupid, brainwashed and have no concept of good and bad. So they only live by what “propaganda” tells them. Of course, the fact that up to 2008 “propaganda” in Russia mostly consisted of virulent Russophobia financed by he West and Solzhenitsyn and his GULAG BS was one of the key elements of it, enough to take a look at Russian TV serials of that time. somehow will, yet again, be ignored. As per Putin–he is NO historian, he is a former Director of FSB who knows for a fact who Solzhenitsyn actually is (was), but President of Russia has his own pool of referents who prepare for him some reviews, including on history. As I stated before–Putin is doing a balancing act of reconciling, at least at this historic juncture, different interest groups in Russia among which are some groups, fairly influential and wealthy, including Russian so called “liberals” for who Solzhenitsyn is a symbol and a trip wire in case they will be imprisoned , with all their loot nationalized. Simple as that. As per “propaganda”, here are stupid Russians, who, as we all know, cannot read and do not understand how truthful Solzhenitsyn was:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/afp-stalin-tops-putin-in-russian-poll-of-greatest-historical-figures-2017-6

    In the end, always look at consequential actions, not what Putin just says. Solzhenitsyn wanted Nazi Germany to destroy USSR, Putin marches with portrait of his father in Immortal Regiment every year.

    As an analogy, for nearly all of American history, figures like Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus were among our greatest national heroes. Yet after a decade or two of ferociously PC MSM indoctrination, activists are regularly demanding that they be purged from our history and even defacing their statues.

    No parallels with Russia whatsoever, Two absolutely different entities historically. For years I stress in my writings everywhere–drawing parallels and projecting is a dangerous business. American madness is American madness only. In the end, West chose to believe and extol a BSer because it was expedient then–let West live with the consequences of this. It is my clear and well defined position for years now–American Russia Studies field is a wasteland of shysters, pseudo-academics, disgruntled minorities and manipulators. Solzhenitsyn is one of those. He contributed mightily to American delusion about Russia and, in this sense, at this point of time could be viewed as a contributing factor to a state of the Cold War 2.0 we are all in. In fact, Solzhenitsyn could be defined as one of the first notable post-truth “influencers” and as such he is a purely Western phenomenon. Including Sozlhenitsyn well-established record of leaning towards human moral-ethical pathologies such as treason, desertion, scoundrels and other despicable types. I know, I know, in the West Nabokov and his Lolita are also valued as a “great” literature.

    On the other question, I’d hardly reckon myself a great literary scholar, but back in the 1980s I read pretty much all of Solzhenisyn’s works, including The First Circle and Cancer Ward, and reconsidered them some of the finest novels I’d ever read, fully worthy of a world-famous Nobel Laureate.

    It is your opinion and you are totally entitled to it. As GULAG writer Solzhenitsyn is a thief with literally stealing Shalamov’s diaries and then presenting them as his on writing. As a writer he is nowhere near Sholohov, Alexey Tolstoy, Bulgakov or even Gorky. He is certainly not even close to Russian classic literature giants. Per Nobel Prize in literature–a totally discredited long ago “award” for ideologically expedient agendas. The only Nobel, and even then, under some conditions, which could be treated more or less seriously is one in natural sciences. Literature, economics and other BS is crap. After all, here is something about rather tedious and mediocre Doctor Zhivago by Pasternak:

    The issue of whether or not the CIA had a hand in creating the international controversy that led to Pasternak’s winning the Nobel Prize was definitively settled on 11 April 2014 when the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency released “nearly 100 declassified documents”[55] confirming that it had, in fact, undertaken a massive propaganda campaign to influence the Nobel Prize committee to consider Zhivago for the award, starting as early as 12 December 1957: “Dr. Zhivago should be published in a maximum number of foreign editions, for maximum free world discussion and acclaim and consideration for such honor as the Nobel prize” [sic][56] In order to turn Pasternak’s novel into an international bestseller worthy of consideration for the Nobel Prize, the CIA purchased thousands of copies of the novel as they came off the presses throughout Europe. When in the summer of 1958 the Dutch publishing house of Mouton brought out an edition of Zhivago, the CIA secretly arranged to “obtain first thousand copies of the book off the press and of these send 500 copies to the Brussels Fair” (i.e., the World Fair held that summer in Brussels, Belgium).[57] In its announcement of the declassification of the Zhivago documents the CIA states that it also published “thousands” of copies of Zhivago and gave them out to Soviet tourists on holiday in Western Europe and had them smuggled into the Soviet Union:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Pasternak

    I recall Paul Pillar describing how this was done. Obviously CIA never had a good taste in Russian literature, nor could Hollywood really get it. Solzhenitsyn is an Exhibit A of this.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @refl
  200. @AnonFromTN

    Memorial changed a lot in more than 30 years since its inception.

    Yes and no. What is forgotten always, apart from Memorial becoming a paid beneficiary of USAID and other CIA and IC fronts early 1990s, is that the lists of those needed to be “rehabilitated” included many simple straightforward criminals–robbers, murderers–and, in the end, Nazi collaborationists.

  201. @Ron Unz

    As someone who read Russian and English-language (British and American) literature in its original form, as well as German, French, Spanish-language (Spanish and Latin American) literature translated into one or both of these two languages, I can only agree with the statement of Dostoyevsky in his Demons: ‘”it is tough to be a middling talent in Russian literature”. In terms of literary quality, even Solzh’s best does not measure up to the 1st or even 2nd tier of world literature. He is pathetic third-rater. When in the Red Wheel he apes Tolstoy, he looks not only pathetic, but also ridiculous, as the frog that puffed itself up to look like a bull.

    As to Nobel prizes in literature, Nobel was wise enough not to initiate that. About half of the awardees have very little talent and wrote mediocre works, or even stuff below mediocre. Many are rewarded not for the quality of their writings, but for the PC BS they spew.

    As to 200 Years Together, when Solzh felt that his influence in Russia is sagging, he tried to mount a relatively popular at the time anti-Jewish horse. Much of his thing sounded petty and silly, like the ravings of someone who lost his most beloved girlfriend to a Jew. So, it did not get him far back then, and is not getting him far now. His influence and memory is fading in Russia, like that of numerous third-rate writers that Russian literature had in the last 200 years. If you ask me, that’s exactly what he deserves.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  202. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    In the end, always look at consequential actions, not what Putin just says. Solzhenitsyn wanted Nazi Germany to destroy USSR

    Well, as I emphasized I’m certainly no Russia expert, I don’t read Russian and I’ve never lived in Russia. But I’d really be *very* surprised if Solzhenitsyn ever glorified Nazi Germany or said that he wished it had won the war against the USSR.

    After all, for about three decades, Solzhenitsyn was increasingly vilified in the American MSM as a horrible rightwinger and even an “anti-Semite.” Surely if he’d ever said anything like that, I’ve have read it 1000 times in all my newspapers.

    I do think he may have occasionally said that the Russians and Ukrainians had suffered so much under Stalin that many of them initially supported the German invasion, or at least had mixed feelings. But that’s what I’ve always read in my mainstream history books, and it seems pretty plausible to me.

    I wonder if you could provide a link or a reference to Solzhenitsyn’s alleged endorsement of Nazi Germany.

    • Agree: Mikhail
  203. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    The absence of the word „Poland“ in Cohen‘s writings tells you everything you need to know about how shallow and biased his understanding of Ukraine is,

    1. Cohen regularly references Poland, when apprepriate.
    2. Your (and others’) use of the phrase “tells you everything you need to know” tells me wverything I need to know about the quality of your comments.

    Trump‘s apparent obsession with Ukraine…. [etc.]

    1. Ukraine (the Porky regime) was colluding with the DNC against Trump since early 2016. The Ukies issued an obsequious apology when he won (via admitting their lie about Manafort), but the Dems press on with their coup.
    2. A bribe? That’s an interesting way to spin it. Trump never should have agreed to javelins, or any weapons for that miserable scum that are killing their own citizens in Donbas.

    • Agree: Robjil
  204. @Ron Unz

    As far as I now, even the best and brightest people have their blind spots and ridiculous illusions.
    The number of victims of the “great terror” was exaggerated by numerous people for a variety of reasons. Therefore, real numbers are very disappointing for them.

    In February 1954 on Khrushchevs orders Internal Ministry reported the data on those repressed for “counter-revolutionary activities” from 1921 through 1953. The total number of found guilty was 3 million 777 thousand 380 people. Of these, 2 million 369 thousand 202 were sentenced to imprisonment and sent to camps, whereas 765 thousand 180 were exiled. Only 642 thousand 980 people were executed in these 32 years. According to a 1993 study of archival Soviet data, a total of 1,053,829 people died in the Gulag (not including labor colonies) from 1934 to 1953 (there was no archival data for the period 1919–1934).

    Murdering even one person is a crime. Thus, Stalin’s regime dd commit millions of crimes. However, the number of victims is nowhere near fantastic millions that liars lie Solzh, Conquest, and others of their ilk liked to cite.

    As to the Nation magazine, I have personal experience with it. A few years ago I got a trial subscription for three months and that gave me a right to comment on its web site. I found experimentally that political censorship there is about as bad as in NYT, WaPo, or Soviet Union. Naturally, I never renewed my subscription. As far as the contents go, it is not left, it is fake left. Nation can pass as left only in the US, where almost everything is fake, so most people don’t even know the difference between fake and genuine.

  205. @Ron Unz

    But I’d really be *very* surprised if Solzhenitsyn ever glorified Nazi Germany or said that he wished it had won the war against the USSR

    .

    He is a certified Vlasovite, including using Nazi collaborationists “statistics” such as Kurganov. His WW II falsifications, such as “liberation” of Prague by Bunyachenko’s ROA division, among many others, are radically pro-Vlasovite, which is by default pro-Nazi. Just a “small” detail about him.

    I wonder if you could provide a link or a reference to Solzhenitsyn’s alleged endorsement of Nazi Germany.

    He doesn’t “endorse” Nazi Germany directly, he merely endorses collabortionists such as Vlasov within his writings, including GULAG and other his manifestos. Again, he was unhinged, including his outbursts when already living in the US. You can find his hysterical rants even on Youtube.

    I do think he may have occasionally said that the Russians and Ukrainians had suffered so much under Stalin that many of them initially supported the German invasion, or at least had mixed feelings. But that’s what I’ve always read in my mainstream history books, and it seems pretty plausible to me.

    Inevitable question, this “mainstream” history written by who? If you mean American mainstream “history” of Russian history, here is Sir Bernard Pares about the subject:

    “And knowledge alone is not enough without understanding, which is much more hardly won. To no country does this apply more than to Russia….This gap has to be filled, or it will cost us dear.”

    I will reiterate again, with some minor exception, Russia’s history of the XX Century is the West is a caricature. And it was solzhenitdified. Enough to take a look at US version of WW II which is a “mainstream”.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  206. Robjil says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The first hundred years of the two hundred years of the Solz. book was the most fascinating part to me.

    We in the west only get the Fiddler on Roof version of Jewish culture in Eastern Europe.

    We don’t get the reasoning for the Pale of Settlement to be set up after the Russian Empire took over the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

    The reasoning was to protect the rest of the Russian Empire from Jewish merchants, liquor sellers and money-lending schemes.

    If the west at least translated the first hundred years of that the book, it would be a good thing for freedom of the press in the west. At least, more people would be aware that Jewish culture is not always “good” as our western MSM touts. It would also more importantly allow people to be openly critical of bad actions by Jewish individuals, by Jewish organizations, by Jewish run media and Jewish directed actions.

    • Agree: refl
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  207. refl says:
    @Ron Unz

    I packed my criticism of Solchenitsyn as carefully as I could. He definitely had his western audience in mind, when he wrote the Gulag Archipelago. And the sad thing is, that the audience wants atrocities. If they don’t get their atrocities, they won’t read the book, visit the memorial etc. The only mandatory qualifier is, that it was THEM who were evil and not US.

    What I would like to read somewhere – it should have been written by someone knowledgable, but I am not keen enough to find it – is, how Petrograd in 1917 was flooded with returning emigrants, how they dumped their ideas of society, which then even in western countries were beyond anything acceptable on a conservative and christian people.
    I would like to read an honest evaluation, to what degree stalinism was about rooting out abominations that made Stalins rule acceptable. Trotzky was a traitor and an agent by any standard. What you hardly find, when you read about the purges, is that in the Soviet leadership anyone who held a post would coopt whole groups of afiliates. The Soviet leadership under Stalin desperately needed western help to modernize the country and at the same time were rightfully deeply distrusteful.
    In that perspective, the stalinist purges start to make sense, but to try to understand them is still tabu.

    And it does not help that Russian writers will denounce anyone as a traitor who tries to come to some sort of relaxed perspective.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  208. @refl

    He definitely had his western audience in mind, when he wrote the Gulag Archipelago. And the sad thing is, that the audience wants atrocities. If they don’t get their atrocities, they won’t read the book, visit the memorial etc. The only mandatory qualifier is, that it was THEM who were evil and not US.

    Perfectly stated. This is the same effect as going to some horror movie, get scared and nervous, only to experience a calm and relaxation of the real life, even if not too comfortable or stable after exiting movie theater. This, plus West is addicted to “moral high ground”, Solzh gave them that. Considering a pathetic level of specifically American “intellectual” class–it worked, including through reinforcing own “moral high ground”. It is especially important for all kinds of sodomites, pedophiles, mentally disturbed sociopaths who today populate US “elites”.

  209. refl says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    He knew 200 years Together will attract attention primarily in the West (…). He is revered by the so called American (and some European) so called “alt-right” types because he fits well into their unhinged “Jews control my bowel movement”

    I hate to say this now, but here you are loosing it. When I read “200 years together” I was keen to read him demolish the 6M only to find that he buys into it completely. Therefore, it is impossible that he wanted Germany to destroy the USSR in the war.
    It is the same with Solchenitsyn as with Pasternak as with the autobiography of Schostakowich that I found to be a revelation on reading it as a teenager: once their writing gets accepted in the West it will be set to work in the western geopolitical sense. This is as consistent as the fact that any scholar of international reputation will at some point have lived on a grant by an Angloamerican institution.
    You are in your right to call all these people traitors, but for us ignorant types in the West who are looking for a new perspective, this is not enough.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  210. Live Free says:

    The author fails to include those glorious years of TENDER, SYMPATHETIC, EMOTIONAL BONDING between Russia and the Ukraine known as the “HOLODOMOR”:

    “The Holodomor was a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine in 1932 and 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians. It is also known as the Terror-Famine and Famine-Genocide in Ukraine, and sometimes referred to as the Great Famine or the Ukrainian Genocide of 1932–33.”

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  211. @refl

    When I read “200 years together” I was keen to read him demolish the 6M only to find that he buys into it completely. Therefore, it is impossible that he wanted Germany to destroy the USSR in the war.

    Solzhenitsyn of 1965, 1974 and 2000 are a bit different public personas in all those three iterations. Solzhenitsyn knew “market” really well. As per “demolishing 6M”, if to assume that the number is lower than 6M (I simply don’t know, nor do I particularly care), the last person who could have done this would be Solzhenitsyn–a man who literally used Nazi propaganda numbers when writing about USSR. As I said, read this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Russian-Question-End-Twentieth-Century/dp/0374252912

    It is written by amateur who cannot even count, which is strange if to consider that his education is that of Physics teacher.

  212. @Live Free

    That’s a mindless repeat of the myth promoted by Ukies. The famine was real, but in that famine more Russians died that Ukrainians. What’s more, a lot of Kazakhs also died. So, it was a crime of the Soviet regime (BTW, FYI, Stalin was a Georgian, not Russian), but there was nothing in it directed at any particular nation. Not to mention that at the same time there was a severe famine with a lot of deaths in the part of present-day Ukraine that was under Polish rule. You can blame Pilsudski for that, but certainly not Stalin.

  213. @Robjil

    I agree that we shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water. But I’d prefer a source of this info that has some credibility. This excludes Solzh.

  214. Anon[359] • Disclaimer says:

    Why are we in Ukraine?

    Because it’s there!

    It’s sort of like going to the moon or climbing Mount Everest, you know?

  215. @Ron Unz

    Ron, I understand that it may be of no consequence, but here are two pieces, among hundreds written elsewhere, from a very popular Russian weekly Arguments and Facts (in Russian) which you may consider, using Google Translate, to get an impression of why Solzh is not historian and whose “sources” he was using, when he wasn’t simply making up numbers on the fly.

    https://aif.ru/society/opinion/1355722

    and this:

    https://aif.ru/society/history/delo_professora_kurganova_kto_pridumal_110_millionov_zhertv_stalina

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  216. Why is the U.S. in the Ukraine?

    As others have answered, so the corrupt oligarchs and their bought-and-paid-for politicians and other enablers can enrich themselves. The saga of former V.P. Joe Biden and his son Hunter proves this point well. But there are other reasons as well.

    In 1904, in an influential paper entitled “The Geographical Pivot of History,” British scholar Halford Mackinder propounded a theory which became known as “Heartland Theory.” In brief, his theory was that of geographic determinism – who controlled the essential landmasses in the world would control the commanding heights of the world economy and geopolitical influence. Mackinder identified the Eurasian landmass as the most-critical real-estate to be controlled.

    Mackinder’s theories have long-held sway within U.S. foreign policy and geopolitical circles, as they continue to do today. Such prominent figures as the late Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger have used Mackinder’s ideas as the basis for the rationalization of the the pro-interventionist “neo-con” foreign policies of the last several decades.

    Mackinderism isn’t the only reason billionaires like George Soros are interested in the Ukraine. Soros and his kind don’t get out of bed in the morning for anything with less than nine-figure dollar amounts, aren’t popping up in the Ukraine and environs because they want to work on their sun tans; they are there because they smell money – a very large amount of money.

    Astute observers have observed how the U.S. foreign policy apparatus returns again and again to its locus in the Middle East and SE Europe/SW Asia, specifically places like Syria and the Ukraine. The choice of these two places of interest is not accidental; both are key real-estate in the struggle to control the multi-billion-dollar oil and liquid natural gas market which will supply southern Europe in the coming decades. Both nations have rich supplies of petroleum reserves, as well as well-developed pipelines and transportation networks. Tartus, Syria, is a warm-weather port on the Mediterranean currently under Syrian-Russian control. If the western oligarchs could gain control of it, it would be ideal as a shipping terminal for their product.

  217. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You hear a lot of things about “NAZIS”. Unfortunately, most of thse things are lies, repeated as facts. The biggest lie perhaps was Auschwitz. After over 40 years standing there, the Jews in charge of Auscwitz tore down the sign claming Germans murdered 4 million people at Auschwitz and replaced it with a sign sayng 1.5 million people were murdered there. Then they lowered the figure again to 1.1 million but some historians believe about 150,000 people may have died from diseaze. That would basically make the Holocayst a lie.

    For over 4o years the wonderful Jews and allies claimed Germans made Jews into soap and lampshades. It’s been known for over 40 years that was a lie.

    People died at Auschwitz and other camps, but were they murdered or did they die of disease or manutrition. Evidence points mostly to the latter. But I suppose if you haerd it on Sirius Radio it has to be true. Right? Why would I believe people when they have lied continuously?

  218. @PeterMX

    Frankly, I don’t care about the actual cause of death of each inmate. The fact that Hungarian and Czech composers were kept in the camp of Auschwitz is enough for me. Any government that did that is at least as guilty as Stalin’s government that condemned Mandelstam to prison.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  219. @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    Russians have a complex about their past, obviously. Even if they hated it, if another Russian says anything negative, he becomes a traitor — especially should he find approval in the West. This would make Solzhenitsyn public enemy number one. “Он патриот” is more or less a mark sainthood in the average Russian mind.

    Then they tell you that as a westerner, you couldn’t possibly understand his significance nor anything else about the Soviet Union. It is shrouded in mystical unknowability, disclosed only to the mental finesse of the Russian patriot.

    A similar dodge is made with Dugin, for example. He is basically incomprehensible unless you are an acolyte. Why? Because he has a hard-on for Russian recidivism. Russia is Good in itself, America Bad in itself.

    Everyone has an angle, a jealously-guarded blind spot. Arguing Solzhenitsyn or anything Soviet Union with a Russian is time wasted, as it’s closely tied to their patriotism, which is itself a messy love/hate affair you don’t want to get mixed up in.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @peterAUS
  220. Malacaay says:
    @Lot

    What does that mean, fake amero? Ukraine is a county and a nation; what it does is no business of Russian trash no more than you fake american.

  221. Malacaay says:
    @Undocumented Shopper

    Naturally. Russia occupies many nations, many a people are trapped and occupied inside that cesspool. Naturally they wish to be free of Russo occupation. It’s the same with Murica, that disgusting, liberal, godless pit of Hell on Earth. How many nations are the states known as Murica comprised of? Murica is not a nation. It’s an empire.

  222. Malacaay says:
    @Undocumented Shopper

    There is probably not a single sentence in your post that is not nonsensical, you fake amero clown. I haven’t gone past the first paragraph as the reek of stupidity and ignorance was already overwhelming.

  223. Biff says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    Everyone has an angle, a jealously-guarded blind spot. Arguing Solzhenitsyn or anything Soviet Union with a Russian is time wasted,

    Most of the American public along with other westerners(TV watchers) loath and despise Julian Assange(mostly because they’ve been instructed to) for daring to confront power with truth. Is Solzhenitsyn a similar character revealing some hard truths that people believe should be kept in the hands of the government?
    In the same vein, is this why a large segment of people want Trump gone, and the Deep State firmly back in power along with a pseudo-liberal front man to sooth their pre-groomed belief system(Obama was perfect for the job)?

    Is a false world more comforting simply because of a sense of safety in numbers? ‘More people believe so I must too…’

    Personally I have no idea — just asking…. ;^)

    • Replies: @Marshall Lentini
  224. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Andrei Martyanov

    His WW II falsifications, such as “liberation” of Prague by Bunyachenko’s ROA division, among many others, are radically pro-Vlasovite, which is by default pro-Nazi. Just a “small” detail about him.

    But they did.

    http://www.ww2inprague.com/general-vlasov-and-russian-liberation-army—hidden-true-about-the-prague-uprising

    Excerpt –

    On May 6, 1945, Vlasov received a request from the commander of the first ROA division, General Sergei Bunyachenko, for permission to turn his weapons against the Nazi SS forces and aid Czech resistance fighters in the Prague uprising. Vlasov at first disapproved, then reluctantly allowed Bunyachenko to proceed. Some historians maintain it was the bitterness of the ROA against the Germans which caused them to switch sides once again, while other historians believe the sole purpose of this action was to win favor from the western Allies and possibly even the Soviet side, in the light of the nearly completed military annihilation of the German Reich.
    Two days later, the first division was forced to leave Prague as communist Czech partisans began arresting ROA soldiers in order to hand them over to the Soviets for execution. At this point Vlasov was offered an escape, through changing into civilian clothes and flying to neutral Spain, but he refused to leave his men.

    It was a combo of having been (in overall terms) treated badly by the Nazis and knowing the war was going to end in Nazi defeat, along with a pro-Czechoslovak outlook.

    Agree that Prague was on the verge of being liberated without the POA. Too bad for Vlasov that people like this person didn’t have the upper hand in the Reich:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfried_Strik-Strikfeldt

    The stupidity of Nazi ideology proved to be too great. In WW II, Vlasov arguably might’ve done for the Germans what Lenin did for them in in WW I.

    Vlasov was the closest the Russians had to Mihailovic. There was talk of the two becoming formal allies.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  225. UA Wire : “Expert says Ukraine has one of the biggest lithium reserves in Europe ”

    presstv: ” Did US oust Morales for Bolivia’s lithium reserves ? ”

    Tesla’s stock rises after Morales ousted .

  226. @Biff

    For Russians I guess it’s just a matter of national pride. The Soviet Union was very good for many people in certain ways, a lot of bitter old people miss it because they’re codgers who can’t adapt, and the idea of anyone criticizing Russia at the height of its power in modern times is offensive, like everything else one says nowadays unless it be “white men bad”.

    All I can say definitively is that it looks like Solzhenitsyn offended the lower classes here and this reputation has hung on a bit (his grave was totally clean when I saw it). Russians know the Soviet Union was very far from the glorious utopia of Politburo propaganda, but they hate hearing it from non-Russians. Everyone has that impulse; I hate America, but when someone else affects to criticize it, there’s that part of me that gets offended even if I agree and can add much, much more to the criticism.

    I’ve never even read Solzhenitsyn. Zero interest in the Soviet Union as a phenomenon. It’s gone, it isn’t coming back, and the endless dialectic of for-and-against, glorious or grisly, is completely tiresome — as is all the white nationalist palaver about “Bolshevism”, for that matter.

  227. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    here are two pieces, among hundreds written elsewhere, from a very popular Russian weekly Arguments and Facts (in Russian) which you may consider, using Google Translate, to get an impression of why Solzh is not historian and whose “sources” he was using, when he wasn’t simply making up numbers on the fly.

    Well, I looked over those two Russian articles via Google translate. The first one indicated that Solzhenitsyn was still a very controversial figure among Russian intellectuals, with various supporters and detractors.

    Both articles indicated that some of Solzhenitsyn’s demographic estimates were a little loose, and that he sometimes rhetorically conflated the number of people who died or were killed because of the Bolshevik victory with the overall population shortfall, but that hardly seems like a capital offense.

    From everything I’ve read, the highest economic growth rate in Russian history was in the decade or so before 1917, and the population growth rate was also enormous. I’ve never looked into the demographics and I’m sure they can be disputed, but it seems perfectly plausible to me that if not for the Bolshevik Revolution, today’s Russian population would be 60-100 million larger, which is basically what Solzhenitsyn was claiming.

    I know you don’t like Anatoly Karlin, but he recently published a collection of fascinating demographic facts:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-25-cool-demographics-facts/

    Among other things, in 1914 Russians outnumbered Turks roughly 10-to-1 but these days it’s more like 2-to-1, mostly because Turkey’s population grew by 500% and Russia’s didn’t. Since Russia has such a vast land-area, isn’t it plausible that Russia’s population growth trends would have roughly continued for many decades if not for the Bolsheviks?

    • Agree: Robjil, annamaria
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  228. @Mikhail

    But they did.

    1. One division physically cannot “liberate” such city as Prague;
    2. The tank forces of three (!!!!) Fronts (Army Groups) 1st, 2nd and 4th Ukrainian Fronts which demolished Wehrmacht forces and specifically obliterated the Staff of the Army Group Center the night from 7th to 8th May 1945, thus immobilizing completely the control and command of the whole Army Groups Center. And how do we know all that? From Archives, namely, among many, from the Commander of those two German Army Groups Field-Marshall Shoerner and other Wehrmacht officers who were there.

    So, no, Bunyachenko’s division didn’t liberate Prague and fought merely for saving own ass when understood the final result.

    Vlasov was the closest the Russians had to Mihailovic. There was talk of the two becoming formal allies.

    Vlasov is plain and simple a traitor and Nazi collaborator, period. There is nothing redeeming about him, the same as about Krasnov or Shkuro, as an example.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  229. @Ron Unz

    Both articles indicated that some of Solzhenitsyn’s demographic estimates were a little loose,

    OK, let’s call a difference on the order of magnitude this way–“little loose”.

    From everything I’ve read, the highest economic growth rate in Russian history was in the decade or so before 1917, and the population growth rate was also enormous.

    There was nothing enormous about it, because the gap between Russia and other top 4 economies was actually growing, not shrinking.

    I know you don’t like Anatoly Karlin, but he recently published a collection of fascinating demographic facts:

    Ron, I do not “not like” Karlin, I simply know the difference between professional ethical historians and amateurs and shysters. It is your site, if you think that his demographic facts are “fascinating”, it is you choice. A person who drags here in full seriousness (???) such delirium as Kholmogorov’s scribbles cannot be taken seriously. But then again, I read, initially, opinions on the “history” of WW II here too. I am sure you know the definition of post-truth (after all, it was invented in the United States).

    Among other things, in 1914 Russians outnumbered Turks roughly 10-to-1 but these days it’s more like 2-to-1, mostly because Turkey’s population grew by 500% and Russia’s didn’t. Since Russia has such a vast land-area, isn’t it plausible that Russia’s population growth trends would have roughly continued for many decades if not for the Bolsheviks?

    Ron, in the articles I presented to you (in A&F) there is a part which demolishes none other than Mendeleev’s “method” of demographics. It answers your question completely. If you want to believe Karlin–it is your personal business–but without understanding the issue of period of roughly 1905-1945, especially when ignoring all archive data for Russia–pardon me, what’s the point to discuss anything? I presented archival data on many occasions here, especially wartime one–but sure, Karlin knows better than Krivosheev or Russian MoD archivists. I do not discuss fantasies.

  230. Richard P says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Thank you for the additional background information on Solzhenitsyn. Your analysis was insightful and cemented by decision to not read his works. I’ve became curious about Solzhenitsyn after several of readers recommended his works on Counter Currents and elsewhere. Having studied and pilgrimaged in Russia; I’m quite familiar with the culture. Solzhenitsyn’s name has surfaced on several of occasions, but I’ve never taken the initiative to explore his works – and to decide for myself whether they contribute anything of value to the metapolitical struggles of that time period in Soviet Russia.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  231. @PeterMX

    After over 40 years standing there, the Jews in charge of Auscwitz tore down the sign claming Germans murdered 4 million people at Auschwitz and replaced it with a sign sayng 1.5 million people were murdered there.

    I’m really starting to feel like a broken record here, but how many times does it have to be repeated, the 4 million plaque number never referred to Jews specifically in the first place.

    Who are the Jews in charge of Auschwitz? I want specific names.

    What do you propose happened to composers Sándor Kuti and Hans Krása? Were they teleported to the moon?

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  232. Sparkon says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    3. Per Putin not giving a damn to Solzh, a funny moment–when visiting self-proclaimed “consciousness of Russia”, while in Solzh’s house Putin, looking at Stolypin’s portrait on the wall asked Solzh:”Is it your grandfather?”

    4. But to be more general–modern West doesn’t know Russia, doesn’t understand it and doesn’t really have faculties to do so.

    Did this really happen? I suspect this account may be apocryphal, and Putin’s reputed quip is an inside joke. Surely Vladimir Putin would recognize (a picture of) Pyotr Stolypin, but perhaps not favorably.

    In any event, according to the results of a controversial internet poll conducted in 2008 by Russia TV, Pyotr Stolypin finished 2nd behind Alexander Nevsky, and just ahead of Josef Stalin.

    The Russia TV Channel initially nominated 500 names who “played significant role in Russia’s history”, selected by the Institute of Russian History of the Russian Academy of Sciences. On 12 June 2008 the list was shortened to 50 by voting.

    In December 2008 the name of the winner was announced. First was Alexander Nevsky, second was Pyotr Stolypin and third was Joseph Stalin.

    — Wikipedia

    I can’t find the initial 500 names, but this link to the poll’s results also gives a link to the 50 semi-finalists (in Russian), where Solzhenitsyn’s name does not appear.

    http://www.nameofrussia.ru/rating.html

    Anyway, this article by Peter Eltsov in Politico magazine gives a rather different view of the Putin-Solzhenitsyn relationship:

    In a ceremony at the Kremlin in June 2007, Vladmir Putin awarded the State Prize of the Russian Federation—the highest award in Russia—to Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel Prize-winning author whose brave exposure of Soviet oppression during the Cold War had made him a revered figure in the West. Both Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin had tried to [do] give Solzhenitsyn the same prize for the Gulag Archipelago and other famed works but the writer didn’t have much use for them—two leaders who tried to break with the communist and imperialist identity of Russia. Putin was different. Putin, Solzhenitsyn said in an interview shortly before his death in 2007 at age 88, had brought “a slow and gradual restoration” to Russia.

    The admiration was mutual. After praising Solzhenitzyn at the Kremlin ceremony for devoting “practically all his life to the Fatherland,” Putin visited the writer at home, telling him how much of his program for Russia was “largely in tune with what Solzhenitsyn has written.” And recent political developments show that Putin indeed has followed many of Solzhenitsyn’s ideas, particularly in the area known as “the near abroad,” or the former USSR.

    Indeed, it is one of history’s ironies that the No. 1 internal enemy of the Soviet Union has now become a spiritual guru to a former KGB officer who repeatedly voices nostalgia for Soviet times. For years before his death, the fiercely nationalistic Solzhenitsyn suggested that post-Soviet Russia must include Ukraine. Solzhenitsyn did not see the Ukrainians as a separate nation: “All the talk of a separate Ukrainian people existing since something like the ninth century and possessing its own non-Russian language is recently invented falsehood,” he wrote in a 1990 essay, “Rebuilding Russia: Reflections and Tentative Proposals.”

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/vladimir-putin-guru-solzhenitsyn-115088

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  233. @Sparkon

    Anyway, this article by Peter Eltsov in Politico magazine gives a rather different view of the Putin-Solzhenitsyn relationship:

    Read my lips (or text)–I repeat myself–American Russian Study field is populated mostly by people with ZERO expertise in anything. They are products of American media-pseudo-academic “cultural” milieu and are firmly into business of spin and open incompetent propaganda. Especially in media such you presented. The piece you presented is a sheer author’s fantasy, especially this pearl: “Indeed, it is one of history’s ironies that the No. 1 internal enemy of the Soviet Union has now become a spiritual guru to a former KGB officer who repeatedly voices nostalgia for Soviet times.”(c) Here is your Eltsov today, in August 2019.

    The Best Way to Deal With Russia: Wait for It to Implode.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/03/russia-separatism-vladimir-putin-227498

    This is written by a person with a complete lack of understanding of Russia, her history and of international relations, of which this shyster has zero grasp, because he, as overwhelming majority of US humanities -“educated” (in reality dumbed down) products have absolutely no comprehension of the hard power, especially warfare, element which drives human history. It is not a theorem–it is an axiom. American “intellectual” class is pathetic and has “degrees” which are absolutely meaningless. I just finished a second book on that. I am writing (early) stages a third one on real geopolitics and how it works in modern world, not some white board abstracts taught in the US in all kinds of courses such as political pseudo-science and “International Relations”.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @anon
  234. Alfred says:
    @PeterMX

    There are some incontrovertible facts:

    1- The Germans, in their own way, were very logical and systematic people.

    2- The Germans had a massive shortage of manpower. It made no sense whatsoever to kill people of working age. Work them to death perhaps. But gas them first no.

    3- There is a large number of Jewish survivors of these camps – 74 years later. They must have been either infants or teenagers when they were sent to the camps. This spoils the story that the young and disabled were gassed and cremated just after leaving the trains.

    4- There is a lot of documentation about the Germans euthanizing mental cases and handicapped people. But absolutely nothing about gas and ovens. The Germans are far too methodical to have not left a trail of paperwork as wide as highway.

    5- Zyklon B was used by the German army everywhere for delousing. They did not have DDT.

    Happily, young people and their parents today have no idea of what devastation infectious diseases such as typhus can do to a starving population.

    • Agree: Marshall Lentini
    • Replies: @PeterMX
  235. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    this is written by a person with a complete lack of understanding of Russia

    Well, I don’t know anything about the Politico journalist, but these factual claims seem rather striking unless you claim they were entirely fabricated:

    In a ceremony at the Kremlin in June 2007, Vladmir Putin awarded the State Prize of the Russian Federation—the highest award in Russia—to Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel Prize-winning author whose brave exposure of Soviet oppression during the Cold War had made him a revered figure in the West…The admiration was mutual. After praising Solzhenitzyn at the Kremlin ceremony for devoting “practically all his life to the Fatherland,” Putin visited the writer at home, telling him how much of his program for Russia was “largely in tune with what Solzhenitsyn has written.”.

    Would Putin really have said and done those things if Solzhenitsyn were actually the vile, anti-Russian traitor that you and various other commenters here claim?

    Bear in mind that by 2007, Solzhenitsyn had been regularly vilified for decades in the American MSM, so Putin clearly wasn’t gaining any points with Western elites by praising him.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  236. annamaria says:
    @Richard P

    Mr. Andrei Martyanov is a superb specialist in his field of military engineering & policies, but he is no expert in the fine arts and literature. His choice of favorite authors — Maxim Gorky and Alexej Tolstoj — betrays Mr. Martyanov’s impoverished cultural background. He does not understand this.

    Mr. Martyanov believes that Alexander Solzhenitsyn was looking for publicity. But this belief cannot be squared with the A. S. clear understanding of the Jewish Lobby’ power and the perspective of his work being censored by western publishing houses. And this is exactly what has happened. While Anne Applebaum (one of the employees of the Integrity Initiative and Atlantic Council) has easy access to publishing her “documentary” about GULAG, Solzhenitsyn’ documentary Two Hundred Years Together has been banned by all western publishing houses.

    I am not trying to defend the Solzhenitsyn’ documentary on a ground of literary excellence. The point is, why the monumental and unique work of a native speaker with unlimited access to Russian archives and personal experience of living through Soviet times should be so maligned? Moreover, Mr. Martyanov trusts unquestionably the Soviet report on the numbers of the victims of GULAG but dismisses, with the uninhibited hatred, the Solzhenitsyn’ documentary. What if not everything is wrong in the latter documentary?

    https://larouchepub.com/other/2019/4603-the_british_come_out_of_the_sh.html
    https://larouchepac.com/20190110/part-ii-integrity-initiatives-foreign-agents-influence-invade-united-states
    “The Integrity Initiative and the UK’s Scandalous Information War:” https://www.mintpressnews.com/the-integrity-initiative-and-the-uks-scandalous-information-war/253014/
    “The Insidious Role of the Atlantic Council: Securing The 21st Century For NATO:” https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-insiduous-role-of-the-atlantic-council-securing-the-21st-century-for-nato/18945

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  237. @Ron Unz

    Well, I don’t know anything about the Politico journalist, but these factual claims seem rather striking unless you claim they were entirely fabricated:

    Of course they were fabricated, or at best stretched to such a degree that one has to question if people who write such things are in any touch with the reality. For starters, let’s face the simple fact that US journos, especially people singing for so called “foreign policy establishment” simply make things up. Unless we want to ignore this axiom.

    1. So, let’s get to details of the matter, as much as I am tired to explain obvious things. Will start with this condescending ignorant pearl of the author:

    A passionate patriot as well as a champion of free speech, Solzhenitsyn left a rich, diverse, and controversial legacy. Putin chooses to follow only those ideas that fit his neo-imperialist and reactionary agenda, and naturally they don’t usually include the free-speech part.

    2. For starters, Putin doesn’t base his decisions on ANY Solzhenitsyn’s legacy, but only on the briefings and ideas which originate in the institutions such as MID, GRU, General Staff, FSB and SVR. Period. Geopolitical concepts, formulation of the crucial national interests and development of policies proceed only within that narrow and highly classified circle of institutions which have ZERO, nada relations to any Solzhenitsyn, or, for that matter Tolstoy or Pasternak. Finding some faint similarities is called in Russian pulling an owl on globe. In terms of free speech, Russia will make US feel really pale, unless one wants to discount yet again suffocating PC and, as I already stated, down right making shit up. Obviously applying term of a “champion of the free speech” to Solzh, forgetting his sacramental, and I quote:”Yes, to wash oneself is much harder than spit. It is important to spit first, fast and in an appropriate moment “. Да отмываться всегда трудней, чем плюнуть. Надо уметь быстро и в нужный момент плюнуть первым (Red Wheel, March 1917, Book 4). This pearl by Eltsov should have been already a red flag.

    3. Here is another pulling an owl on globe:

    And recent political developments show that Putin indeed has followed many of Solzhenitsyn’s ideas, particularly in the area known as “the near abroad,” or the former USSR.

    I am sure events in Ukraine, which DID happen as an independent, however failed, nation somehow doesn’t sound to me as Putin “following” Solzhenitsyn, in fact Solzh said in his famous in its being utterly preposterous 1990 treatise:

    “All the talk of a separate Ukrainian people existing since something like the ninth century and possessing its own non-Russian language is recently invented falsehood,” he wrote in a 1990 essay, “Rebuilding Russia: Reflections and Tentative Proposals.

    Really? But Ukraine did happen, it is a separate nation and Russia literally was pulled into Donbass by circumstances. Crimea was the main prize. In fact, whole Russian policy since the onset of events of 2014 was in dramatic decoupling from Ukarine economically and culturally, de facto, and de jure viewing it as a separate nation NOT aligned with Russia. So, how’s that corresponds with Solzh “being guru” and Putin following his “wisdom”. Ukraine is a dramatic example of Solzhenitsyn having pretty much no clue when writing about modern Russia.

    4. Next shining example of consummate Solzh:

    Putin also seems to echo Solzhenitsyn in his distaste for the West and its mores. In 1978 in a famous speech at Harvard, Solzhenitsyn criticized Western civilization for a lack of courage, its unrestained freedom of media, and its fixation on law and individual rights. The withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Vietnam, according to the Nobel Prize Laureate, was a sign of weakness: “To defend oneself, one must also be ready to die;

    Really? How about instead of me trying to comment on sheer stupidity, someone can explain me, how come this creep endorsed a genocidal war and described “withdrawal” as a sign of “weakness”. How West was “defending” itself in Vietnam? Don’t we see the repetition of such “defense” in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan.

    These are just some “points” Mr. Eltsov, who reeks even through computer screen of US fake “academia”, presents as supposedly Putin following some Solzhenitsyn’s advise. He, obviously never heard of Primakov Doctrine–a real professional and spiritual Guru for Putin who just last week opened monument to his real teacher, who also, unlike So0lzhenitsyn had a highest state clearance and superb education, including a year in my naval academy, he dropped later because he understood that it was intelligence which was his real call. Unlike with Solzh, Putin and Primakov, who also was a chief of SVR, held decades’ long constant professional and human contacts.

    I, honestly, am a little bit tired responding to “reasoning” which not only ignores facts, but completely undermines the whole concept of facts and causalities existing in principle.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Ron Unz
  238. @annamaria

    Solzhenitsyn’ documentary. What if not everything is wrong in the latter documentary?

    There is only one thing wrong with Solzh’s “documentary” – it is not documentary, it is pure work of fiction. It is about as “documentary” as Beavis and Butthead or The Beauty and the Beast.

    As far as personal experiences go, wouldn’t you think that personal experience of living in the US of a blue-collar grunt in NY and of Bill Gates is quite different? The same was true in the USSR: personal experience of someone who ran away from the front during WWII and then spend years in WIP camps is quite different from the experience of someone who actually fought Nazis or spent time in real camps doing hard labor in horrible conditions. For a few years under Khrushchev Solzh had limited access to archives, but judging by what the people actually studying those archives are now finding and reporting, he had no interest in reality.

  239. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Andrei Martyanov

    More accurately put, Vlasov’s army contributed (along with the Czechs) to the liberation of Prague before the Soviets arrived – once again noting that Prague was on the verge of being liberated.

    Stalin is responsible for far many innocent Russian and non-Russian deaths than what Vlasov can be legitimately accused of. Moreover, Vlasov’s forces didn’t come near the same negative baggage as the likes of the UPA and Ustashe.

  240. @Mikhail

    Stalin is responsible for far many innocent Russian and non-Russian deaths than what Vlasov can be legitimately accused of.

    A mental acrobatics worthy of being inducted into the list of peculiar states based particularly on fuzzy “history” and morality. Vlasov may not be in the same league as Stalin (well, system in general) in terms of victims, but Vlasov and ROA (apart from other, more noted personalities like Brigadenfuhrer SS Krasnov) were not only allies but actually a spawn of Hitler and Nazi Germany which committed atrocities and genocide of Russians on such a scale that 756 000 (IIRC) executed for political reasons in 32 years, somehow pale in comparison to what Axis did in USSR in 4 years. But that is why Solzhenitsyn is so valuable in the West, which is busy, including on this site, rewriting WW II history.

    once again noting that Prague was on the verge of being liberated.

    Yes, in Russian it is called Переобувание в прыжке. (Changing shoes in the jump).

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  241. @AnonFromTN

    There is only one thing wrong with Solzh’s “documentary” – it is not documentary, it is pure work of fiction. It is about as “documentary” as Beavis and Butthead or The Beauty and the Beast.

    You are trying, correctly, to contextualize something in the environment where application of norms of the XXI Century to the events of 70, 100 or 250 years back is deemed normal. Especially in the country afflicted with Christian Zionism and all pathologies, both pro and contra, associated with it. It is purely Manichean world-view which permeates whole US body politic, top-bottom. It is also in the foundation of the unprecedented, precipitous departure of the United States as hegemon (granted, largely self-proclaimed) from the world scene. Only few exceptions get it.

  242. Sparkon says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    “Of course they were fabricated…”

    Here is the (translated) report of Putin’s meeting with Solzhenitsyn from the webpage of the President of Russia:

    Vladimir Putin Met with Alexander Solzhenitsyn

    12 June 2007

    At the end of the State Prize award ceremony, Vladimir Putin arrived at the writer’s home.

    The President congratulated Alexander Solzhenitsyn on the presentation of the State Prize, thanked him for the fact that the writer agreed to meet.

    The head of state said to A. Solzhenitsyn words of gratitude for [his] work for the good of Russia. “You continue your activity even today, you never hesitate in your views, but stick to them in your life,” V. Putin emphasized.

    Further conversation between Vladimir Putin, Alexander and Natalia Solzhenitsyn continued without the press.

    After the meeting, Vladimir Putin said that he talked with Alexander Solzhenitsyn about the current situation in Russia and the future of the state. Vladimir Putin drew the attention of the writer to the fact that some of the steps that are being taken today are in many ways in tune with what Solzhenitsyn wrote. As the President emphasized, A. Solzhenitsyn immediately drew attention to the fact that now more and more opportunities are being provided to municipalities and local self-government. The writer has always advocated for this, said V. Putin. In addition, A. Solzhenitsyn paid special attention to the support of medium and small businesses and to the support of the middle class.

    Also, according to V. Putin, A. Solzhenitsyn was interested in how the time was allocated by the President for solving domestic and foreign policy issues. A. Solzhenitsyn was surprised, V. Putin said when the President said that 70 percent of his time is devoted to domestic politics and only 30 to foreign, and that issues that are resolved in foreign policy are also directly related to the interests of the country.

    According to V. Putin, the conversation was about Russia’s positions in the world.

    A. Solzhenitsyn was awarded the State Prize of the Russian Federation for outstanding achievements in the field of humanitarian activities for 2006. The writer was not present at the award ceremony, he was represented by his wife Natalia Solzhenitsyna.

    At the ceremony, a video message from the writer was shown.

    http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/40495

    Pending approval by Mr. Martyanov, I think we can safely assume that Alexander Solzhenitsyn did indeed receive the State Prize of the Russian Federation from Russian President Vladimir Putin, and additionally was visited in his home by Mr. Putin

    Whether or not Mr. Putin made his reputed quip about Stolypin remains to be verified since there is no mention of it here.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  243. annamaria says:
    @AnonFromTN

    What is “W.I.P camps?”

    “… judging by what the people actually studying those archives are now finding and reporting…”
    — Could you recommend any specific articles/books that bring forth this new information? Not only on GULAG but on the history of Jews in Russia as well.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  244. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Of course they were fabricated, or at best stretched to such a degree that one has to question if people who write such things are in any touch with the reality. For starters, let’s face the simple fact that US journos, especially people singing for so called “foreign policy establishment” simply make things up.

    Well, I wasn’t really focusing on any of the “interpretations” by that Politico journalist, but merely upon these very factual claims he made, whose fabrication would seem much less likely:

    In a ceremony at the Kremlin in June 2007, Vladmir Putin awarded the State Prize of the Russian Federation—the highest award in Russia—to Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel Prize-winning author whose brave exposure of Soviet oppression during the Cold War had made him a revered figure in the West…The admiration was mutual. After praising Solzhenitsyn at the Kremlin ceremony for devoting “practically all his life to the Fatherland,” Putin visited the writer at home, telling him how much of his program for Russia was “largely in tune with what Solzhenitsyn has written.”.

    Surely, if Putin awarded the State Prize of the Russian Federation—Russia’s highest honor—to Solzhenitsyn in 2007 that would have been widely reported in the Russian media, along with the remarks he made at the official Kremlin ceremony. Western MSM journalists are certainly quite dishonest, but I find it a little difficult to believe that a leading American publication simply invented this remarkable story. Are you really sure that it didn’t happen? I do remember that Putin gave Solzhenitsyn a hero’s funeral when he died a year or so later.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  245. @Ron Unz

    Surely, if Putin awarded the State Prize of the Russian Federation—Russia’s highest honor—to Solzhenitsyn in 2007 that would have been widely reported in the Russian media, along with the remarks he made at the official Kremlin ceremony.

    Did I insist that Solzh hasn’t been awarded State Prize? I never stated so, I write about fabrications in the article which was posted, that the author basically concocted alternative reality of Solzhenitsyn having “influence” on Putin’s thinking. The whole post is about BS written by Mr. Eltsov about Solzhenitsyn having any weight in Russia’s geopolitical considerations, it has nothing to do with Sozlh’s State Prize. That is why I quoted from Eltsov’s article and gave some explanations. I don’t know, even granted my broken English, could this be misconstrued? That is why I wrote about Primakov, who defined Russia’s geopolitical vision for decades. That is what I meant by “fabrication”, not the obviously irrefutable fact of Putin awarding Solzhenitsyn or saying some pleasantries to him.

    Well, I wasn’t really focusing on any of the “interpretations” by that Politico journalist,

    I was. But we spoke pass each-other.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  246. @Sparkon

    Pending approval by Mr. Martyanov, I think we can safely assume that Alexander Solzhenitsyn did indeed receive the State Prize of the Russian Federation from Russian President Vladimir Putin, and additionally was visited in his home by Mr. Putin

    Read my response to Ron. I was writing about fabrications in Eltsov’s article, not about State Prize which was awarded.

  247. @annamaria

    VIP (sorry for the typo) means Very Important Person. Stalin, like Hitler, had camps where the conditions were much better than in regular ones. There they held privileged people (potentially useful, or NKVD (Gestapo in case of Hitler) informers). Solzh was in one of those, just like Bandera in the Third Reich.

    As to info, if you read Russian, here is one of many links: https://wowavostok.livejournal.com/9281151.html
    If you want more, do Yandex (not Google!) search with “сталин репрессии количество” or something similar. Ignore everything Wiki (Wiki is full of lies), search through the rest.

    Unfortunately, I don’t know a single reputable source of info about Jews in Russian history. There were many in Lenin’s leadership of Bolsheviks. Stalin executed most of them (in my book, these count as his good deeds, offsetting some of his sins).

  248. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You may not care but it’s relevant because Jewish leaders declared a war on Germany, the Jewish leader Chaim Weizmann (later, first president of Israel) stated in a speech prior to the war that every Jew in the world would fight Germany, Jews carried out assassinations of “NAZIS” prior to the war and they were leaders in the partisan war (un-uniformed participants in fighting) against Germany. That is why Jews were put in camps. And it was always the same. Jews remained free until the fighting came close to where Jews were. At that point they were arrested and put in camps so they could not carry out terrorist activities (un-uniformed participants in the war). In occupied France they remained free untul 1944.

    I would suggest reading this lengthy but informative article. by Dr. Andrew Joyce.

    Final Solution: The Fate of the Jews, 1933–49
    http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/newsletters/Newsletter%20948.pdf

    [MORE]

    “As I closed my introduction to this review, I noted that the only genuine mystery attached to the Jewish fate during World War II was that there should ever have been anything mysterious attributed to it at all. I may have been a little rash. You see, in more ways than one, “the Holocaust” as a cultural concept has performed one of the greatest vanishing acts in history — the disappearance of the Jews as active participants in a war that certainly took place between 1939 and 1945, but which began long before and continues until the present. Examining the thousands upon thousands of histories of World War II, one would get the impression that there was not only one war, but also only one aggressor. Quite how and why “the Jews” leave the historical stage as belligerents in 1939, when the preceding six years had witnessed them engaging in international propaganda wars, political manoeuvring, and targeted assassinations in several European countries, has been surprisingly overlooked. Instead of answering genuine mysteries like this, the relevant historiography has been preoccupied by posing pointless questions that have obvious answers. For example, given the German-Jewish relationship prior to 1939, is it really so illogical to conceive that the German armed forces would view Jews as a security threat throughout Europe but especially on the Eastern Front? Further, is it really any wonder that the most common means of dealing with this threat would be the construction of what really amounted to POW camps for Jewish civilians, termed ghettos for the sake of cultural and historical familiarity? Or that rationing in these ghettos would be roughly equivalent to that seen in POW camps? Strangely enough, however, only in the second decade of the twenty-first century are we witnessing the emergence of histories that accept plain realities such as these”

    “In another curiously understated aspect of earlier histories, those seeking revenge on Jews were often frustrated by a simple fact — there weren’t many Jews left. And the reason for this certainly wasn’t that they had been killed. German officers at the Ukrainian Front wrote to superiors in October 1941 that “it can be ascertained that in the central and eastern districts of the Ukraine, in many cases 70 per cent to 90 per cent and in some cases even 100 per cent of the Jewish population had bolted.” Cesarani remarks that just as Hitler rushed to evacuate ethnic Germans to the Reich, the Soviet Union quickly put in place measures that ensured Jews “benefited disproportionately from the policy to evacuate the staff and families of state agencies and industrial enterprises.” Subsequently, states Cesarani, well over a million Jews outran the Germans “or were pulled to safety by the Soviet state.” Those Jews who could be apprehended were likely to pay the penalty for the escape of their co-ethnics. A common “last goodbye” by these Jewish communist agents was to booby-trap major government buildings. As German forces moved in and started using them as field headquarters, the time bombs would detonate with huge loss of life. Many mass shootings can be attributed to the failure of remaining Jews to co-operate in providing information on the location of explosives in the aftermath of such detonations. As the momentum of Operation Barbarossa ground to a halt, German problems worsened in other ways due to Jews. In those areas where German supply lines crossed Jewish villages, the men of military age had been shot or imprisoned. However, as Cesarani states, the villages remained reasonably well-populated and had become centres for typhus epidemics, thus endangering tenuous supply lines in yet another way. Further afield, Jewish propaganda had been dangerously escalated. In July 1941 an American Jew named Theodore Kaufman published a book entitled Germany Must Perish!, which “among other things, demanded the sterilization of all Germans.” Contemporary SD reports stated sombrely in reaction that the book showed “that this war is really one where the stakes are life or death.””

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  249. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Despite being dismissive and arrogant S.O.B., you are correct:

    American Russian Study field is populated mostly by people with ZERO expertise in anything. They are products of American media-pseudo-academic “cultural” milieu and are firmly into business of spin and open incompetent propaganda.

    American “intellectual” class is pathetic and has “degrees” which are absolutely meaningless.

    This is why it’s so painful to suffer the broadcasters, “journalists,” politicians, “experts,” and other assorted talking heads. Having any glimmer of reality is actually crazy-making.

  250. PeterMX says:
    @Reality Cheque

    1991 interview of Dr.Franciszek Piper, Jewish head of the Auschwitz memorial, in which he concedes the gas chambers there were built “after the war”, or in his words “rebuilt”.

  251. PeterMX says:
    @Alfred

    The euthanasia was done irrelevant to ethnicity. Germans were killed too, and if you’ve read the reasoning, they viewed it as mercy killing. However, the German population didn’t see it that way and started complaining. I believe at that point it stopped.

    Interestingly, some Democratic presidential candidates want to bring a similar policy to the USA now. A few believe a mother should have the right to have her child aborted right up to the day of birth and killed immediately after birth, if after consulting with her doctor they decide this course. But the Democrats don’t want to do this out of “mercy” to a suffering child.

    Tucker Carlson interviews Democrat “women’s rights advocate”

  252. @PeterMX

    Do you have data suggesting that the composers I named were involved in anything? If you do, post the links. Or were they guilty by just being Jewish? That casts the Reich in a whole different light.

    As to guerilla fighters in occupied territories, most of them weren’t Jews, and all of them had a perfect right (some would say, and obligation) to fight foreign occupying force. If you don’t want guerrillas to fight you, don’t occupy other people’s countries. It’s that simple.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  253. annamaria says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “Unfortunately, I don’t know a single reputable source of info about Jews in Russian history.”
    — Why then the Solzhenitsyn documentary Two Hundred Years Together is bashed as totally unreliable on this forum? At least, he dared to produce one.
    Solzhenitsyn was not alone in noticing the “influence:” https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Richard P
    , @AnonFromTN
  254. Richard P says:
    @annamaria

    Thank you for the thorough background information on Solzhenitsyn. I’ve conducted some research after reading your comment, and I believe that Two Hundred Years Together could be an engrossing read on a subject that deserves further investigation. I’ve taken a deep interest in the Bolshevik Revolution and the atrocities that went along with it — especially against the Whites. A lot can be learned from what transpired during this time period — from Petrograd in 1917 to Yekaterinburg in 1918. Unfortunately, I believe that we’re quickly approaching a similar fate here in the West as Neo-Marxist ideologies are firmly clamping down upon us. We either unite as Dissidents or we’ll become the White Negroes of the 21st Century.

    Here’s a complete English version of Solzhenitsyn’s 200 Years Together courtesy of the Renegade Tribune.

    Finally! A Complete English Version of Solzhenitsyn’s 200 Years Together

    ”Editor’s Note: Two Hundred Years Together (Russian: Двести лет вместе, Dvesti let vmeste) is Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s last historical essay, which fills up two volumes with a detailed study of Jews in the Russian Empire, Soviet Union, and modern Russia – covering the two hundred year span from 1795 to 1995. The controversial book was criticized for its “anti-semitism” for daring to discuss the role played by jews in the horrors that unfolded in Russia.

    http://www.renegadetribune.com/finally-a-complete-english-version-of-solzhenitsyns-200-years-together/

  255. @annamaria

    For the simple reason that it’s not a documentary. I know for certain that everything else he wrote was either a blatant lie of twisting of the truth beyond recognition. Therefore, I have a good reason to believe that this “work” by the same author is also a bunch of lies. I wish someone deserving trust studied this phenomenon. But “deserving trust” is the key requirement here. I won’t accept the word of a proven liar. As the American saying goes, “fool me once – shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”.

  256. @Mikhail

    As to the role of Czechs in the liberation of Prague from Germans, there is a joke that describes WWII very realistically.
    Russian, Serbian, and Czech guerilla fighters meet after the war.
    Russian says:
    – I remember how we blew up railways and derailed German trains.
    Serbian says:
    – I remember how we ambushed and shot German soldiers.
    Czech says:
    – I don’t even understand what you guys are talking about. During the war all this was strictly prohibited.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  257. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    That is what I meant by “fabrication”, not the obviously irrefutable fact of Putin awarding Solzhenitsyn or saying some pleasantries to him.

    Sorry I misunderstood. But here’s the point I was trying to make…

    Putin certainly isn’t perfect. But it seems to me that based on where Russia stood when he came to power and what he’s managed to achieve over the last two decades, you could make a reasonable case that he’s the best leader Russia has had during the last one hundred years. Depending upon how you rate some of the old 19th century Czars, maybe even the last 200 years. He’s clearly very intelligent, much more honest than most leaders, and certainly has better access to the true Russian history of the 20th century than do any of us.

    You say that Solzhenitsyn was a vile anti-Russian traitor, a pawn of the CIA, and a supporter of the Nazis, while his Gulag books were filled with anti-Russian lies aimed at attacking Russia. Okay.

    But Putin awarded Solzhenitsyn Russia’s highest national honor, praised him lavishly, and ordered that Gulag be made required reading in all Russian high schools.

    You must see why I remain somewhat skeptical of your claims…

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  258. @Andrei Martyanov

    You sort of make it sound like Russia is something special. It it just a normal country, one of many. Really special is ridiculous ignorance of American “Russia experts”, as well as American “experts” on every country. Let me illustrate this with a few fairly recent examples. You might remember hullabaloo about granting green cards to Afghan translators who worked with the American troops, with the stated reason that “their lives are in danger”. If one translates this into plain English, it means that Afghans despise and hate traitors collaborating with foreign occupiers just as much as Russians do. Another example: remember when the US Army sent pork ribs as food aid to Afghanistan? I am sure there was no malice in that, just woeful ignorance. There are many more examples of incredible American ignorance about every country in the world, but I guess the gist is clear.

    Now, you’d say why “Russia experts” are so prominent in the US? For the simple reason that you can make a lot more money positioning yourself as a Russia expert than claiming to be an expert on Afghanistan or Burkina Faso. Scoundrels zero in on money just like flies zero in on shit.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  259. rubicon says:
    @Exile

    I find it very curious that Professor Cohen fails to mention a few key figures in the Ukraine, including one of the most evil men in the world….a shadowy figure seriously tied to US institutions. He goes by the name of GEORGE SOROS.

    John Solomon, an honest journalist in “The Hill,” has uncovered a number of key elements in the Ukraine, to include the Biden’s, Victoria Nuland, and….of course George Soros.

    We guess Dr. Cohen can’t go out on a limb and tell us some real truths about Ukraine and the US$$/military hegemony because his Ivory Tower thinking might be ended.
    Very sad.

  260. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:

    Assange Lawyers – Conflict of Interest Scandal spreads up to the United States

    https://blogs.mediapart.fr/edition/liberez-assange-ethiques-et-medias/article/181119/assange-lawyers-conflict-interest-scandal-spreads-united-states

    American journalist Lucy Komisar, who specializes in US finance and tax evasion, denounces the existence of lawyers’ interests that are radically opposed to Julian Assange’s defence criteria. Assange lawyers and their Chambers are both targeted.

  261. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    They were as guilty as the million(s) of Germans deliberately murdered in their homes and cities by allied bombers and as guilty as the two million German women gang raped by Soviet (and American and British) soldiers. The Russian Jewish propagandst Ilya Ehrenburg was the only leader of either side to encourage the rape of enemy (German) women in his propaganda. In fact, I have never heard of that before in any war. And the Jewish author of Germany Must Perish is the only one of either side to publicly call for the eradication of a people with a detailed plan, which got positive reviews from the USA’s leading media outlets, including Time magazine. Jews were leaders in partisan warfare.

    There is evidence and a growing number of historians believe the USSR was planning to attack Germany and Germany’s attack was a pre-emptive attack. And contrary to the Jewiish attitude towards the Germans, all across the USSR there were people that welcomed the German army as liberators from an evil and murderous regime, a regime supported by the USA, Great Britain and their peoples. Latvians, Estonians, Ukrainians, Belarussians and Russians welcomed the nvadinng Germans as liberators. Priests, nuns and church people embraced the German invaders. By contrast, no Germans welcomed the Soviet soldiers or their British and American allies. But now Jewish owned Youtube has removed the historical videos of Ukrainian and Belarussians, including their priests and nuns welcoming Germans as liberators.

    • Agree: Malacaay
    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @AnonFromTN
  262. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Krasnov didn’t like Vlasov, with the former exhibiting some Nazi like traits, much unlike the latter.

    There’s a reasoned basis to be pro-Russian and anti-Soviet – especially during the Stalin years. This is why Vlasov is viewed in a nuanced way by Solzhenitsyn, Denikin and some others.

  263. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Prague en masse positively received the Red Army’s entrance, believing that good times were ahead.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  264. refl says:
    @AnonFromTN

    VIP (sorry for the typo) means Very Important Person. Stalin, like Hitler, had camps where the conditions were much better than in regular ones. There they held privileged people (potentially useful, or NKVD (Gestapo in case of Hitler) informers). Solzh was in one of those

    Probably most prisoners of the Soviet system who got out, had been in rather privileged positions – that is how they got out in the first place. And then these people would spend decades in the West with their bitterness and realizing that the money was in the crassest stories that they could tell. Myself, as probably a number of those writing here, have met my share of small Solchenitsyns.
    But still, in his day he gave a voice to these people and I can imagine it to be worthwhile to make him mandatory reading in Russian schools: After all, students have to grasp what the Stalin times were. And then the teacher puts the book aside and asks, what to make of all this.
    I also would note that it is quite common among writers that they feel they are larger than life and think of themselves as the voice of their people. It is a disease that comes with their profession.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  265. Ahoy says:

    We are in Ucraine because we must be somewhere outside the U.S. all the time simce Woodrow Wilson till the Anglozions conquer the planet. The most grotesque thing is that this is happening in the name of the American people.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=si-vMj-FB88&feature=emb_logo

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  266. @AnonFromTN

    Now, you’d say why “Russia experts” are so prominent in the US? For the simple reason that you can make a lot more money positioning yourself as a Russia expert than claiming to be an expert on Afghanistan or Burkina Faso. Scoundrels zero in on money just like flies zero in on shit.

    Undeniably. This is also why this field is so utterly corrupt. It is also one of the major reasons of US intelligence and foreign policy establishment having zero clues on Russia. Remarkably, this is by far not my original thought, albeit I arrived to it independently anyway, but since Sir Barnes to our contemporary Daniel larison of The American Conservative, the fact that US in general is ignorant of the world outside has been pointed out on very many occasions. But here is the deal, if sending pork into Muslim country is bad enough (recall how Putin was giggling when Tkachev offered sending pork to Indonesia), not having at least more-or-less accurate picture about the only country which can wipe the US off the map is a bit different level of ignorance in it being utterly dangerous. US establishment as whole, bar few exceptions, has zero understanding of the power, its main component–modern warfare, and is utterly ignorant on serious operational and strategic ramifications–“degrees” in journalism, political pseudo-science or business simply do not provide required set of cognitive tools to grasp the issues. That is a danger.

  267. @Ron Unz

    Sorry I misunderstood.

    No apologies are necessary, I should have been more perceptive myself.

    But Putin awarded Solzhenitsyn Russia’s highest national honor, praised him lavishly, and ordered that Gulag be made required reading in all Russian high schools.

    I already elaborated on this issue. Recall, that GULAG was included, and even then only some fragments of it, into Literature course in 2009–it was different Russian then, including different balance of Russian “elites”. Moreover, we again getting lost in those very details which are hiding the devil. There is a massive public pressure to remove even those fragments from the course. Here is some taste of otherwise vast movement against Solzh.

    https://info24.ru/news/v-gosdume-predlozhili-zamenit-arhipelag-gulag-na-bibliju-v-shkolnoj-programme.html

    Timing and Russia’s evolution since roughly 2013 hold the explanation to why GULAG will be removed and why monuments to Solzh are under 24/7 surveillance. Again, Solzh is merely a tripwire for some Russian “elites” who are afraid to be massively persecuted. Putin merely gives a signal that he is not Stalin and his rotation of elites will be much softer. But here we entering big Russian politics and this topic requires a long discussion.

  268. Mike P says:
    @PeterMX

    There is evidence and a growing number of historians believe the USSR was planning to attack Germany and Germany’s attack was a pre-emptive attack.

    There is an interview with Wehrmacht general Otto Ernst Remer, right here on Unz

    https://www.unz.com/pub/jhr__an-interview-with-general-otto-ernst-remer/

    which makes it crystal-clear. He is a military expert and an eye witness; I’ll take his word over that of any professional historian.

  269. @Mike P

    which makes it crystal-clear.

    Actually it doesn’t and, is, in fact, in the foundation of an American delusion about WW II and its own role in it because most of it was formed and greatly influenced by primarily Nazi sources and witnesses. This is one of the major factors which contributed to the United States finding itself on a path of a dramatic decline at the global arena. Delusions are not a good guide to sound policies.

    He is a military expert and an eye witness; I’ll take his word over that of any professional historian.

    There is a substantial number of military experts, eyewitnesses and, in addition, military historians who have dramatically opposite views.

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Mike P
    , @Ron Unz
  270. @Mike P

    Mike, here is a demonstration to you of what delusion and basing “history” on German sources gets one. Like this Australian moron who used ONLY German sources and came to the conclusion that Wehrmacht actually…. won Battle of Moscow in 1941. We also know that Germans won at Stalingrad, at Kursk, then destroyed Red Army at Vistula, absolutely annihilated Red Army in Balkans and finally triumphed at Berlin in 1945. Even WSJ (sadly it is behind the pay-wall) couldn’t take this.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/retreat-from-moscow-review-repelling-the-winter-invaders-11573832975

    Here is the info on the guy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stahel

    and here is his book.

    These are the types who dominate Anglo-sphere intelligence and “analytical” institutions whose massive “successes” we can observe all the time. Good luck with these “scholars”, these morons may one day get us all into the actual shooting war. Boy, will they learn fast that their Degrees in”War Studies” from King’s College are not worth a toilet paper, let alone paper they are printed on.

  271. @refl

    You are right, most of “little Solzhs” are those individuals that never were in tough camps, likely the majority are former NKVD informers. Deep down, you had to be a real scum to become NKVD informer. Exact same personal qualities are required to do what they are doing in the US posing as “Russia experts”.

    It’s like “Nazi concentration camp survivors” – considering that now is 2019, most of these people likely never were near Nazi camps. Most of them are frauds playing the game for the money.

    I don’t think that you can say that Solzh gave voice to the people who really suffered. There were quite a few survivors of regular Stalin’s camps, some of whom described their experience fairly well without lying (e.g., Shalamov (Шаламов), Zhzhenov (Жженов), etc.). From a pure literary standpoint, Solzh’s best is “One day in life of Ivan Denisovich”. Of course, as Solzh had no personal experience, even “One day” has gaffes. Those who really were in the camps notice (and point out) these gaffes, but the rest of us can’t.

    As to writers, it happens. However, some really talented ones are excessively kind to their colleagues. I can name modern Russian writer Prilepin (Прилепин), who writes very high quality prose and often praises other writers and poets more than they deserve (at least in my opinion).

  272. @PeterMX

    Nice viewpoint, but it does not explain the reality. The USSR won the war. What’s more, it annihilated >80% of formidable German armed forces. Maybe on a different planet…

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  273. Mike P says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I have been around here long enough to know that to the thesis of an impending Soviet attack in 1941 is anathema to you and your fellow countrymen. However, I have seen no factual arguments from your side; your latest post doesn’t offer any either.

    If you have any relevant and compelling evidence that materially contradicts Remer, I’ll listen. For example, prove to me that the SU’s military build-up did not begin sooner, and on a much larger scale, than the German one. If you can’t do that, you have no case.

  274. Mike P says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Prove to me that the Soviet military buildup did not begin sooner and on a far larger scale than the German one. If you can’t do that, I will stick with Remer. Regarding your second post – the delusions of that particular moron are irrelevant.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  275. @Mike P

    If you can’t do that, I will stick with Remer

    I don’t have to do anything. It has been done before me:

    There is a whole chapter precisely on this issue with exhaustive bibliography and archive materials. Mind you, both authors are senior US Army officers and also read lectures in US Army War College.

    You are free to stick with anyone you want.

    Regarding your second post – the delusions of that particular moron are irrelevant.

    Not only they are not irrelevant, they are germane, and, in fact, have a direct relation to the way new crop of Anglo “elites” is “educated” and brainwashed. The decline of the intellectual level of, in general, Anglo “elites’ is precipitous and it has a direct bearing on the geopolitical situation, which affects billions (“b”) people on Earth.

    I have been around here long enough to know that to the thesis of an impending Soviet attack in 1941 is anathema to you and your fellow countrymen.

    It is not anathema, it is merely an invention of Anglo propaganda based on Rezun’s utterly incompetent lies, including him referring to “documents” and “facts” which, actually…. never existed. he simply made them up. I pointed out this fact couple of times on Unz Review, I believe Ron’s response was to the effect–so what if he made them up, he is still right. Something to this effect, I apologize in advance if that is not the case, but I believe that was the response or very close to it in spirit. After all, it could be tracked down. It was rather interesting to recognize that people make their opinions up based on BS. As per being around long enough–I have been around dentists all my life, I still cannot do dentistry. Military history is a separate animal altogether and it requires a very different set of skills in order to understand how events unfold because causalities are different and much more complex.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  276. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Yes, Germany was the loan superpower fighting 4 other major powers at one time. They knocked out Great Britain and France in 6 weeks, throwing the English into the English Channel. They devastated the USSR in the first several months of the war, but they were outmanned and couldn’t fight the whole world at one time.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  277. @PeterMX

    Yes, Germany was the loan superpower

    Damn, I always knew those German bankers will kill us with their loans;)

  278. @Mikhail

    Ever since Jan Hus (who died ~600 years ago), the history of Prague and Czechia does not have much to write home about. Let’s just look at the last 100 years. Czechoslovak Legion (or Corps), which was fighting on the side of Entente against Germany in WWI, was evacuated from the Eastern front via Siberia after the Russian revolution. It rebelled against Bolsheviks and turned out to be one of the most brutal forces in the Russian Civil War (which wasn’t really Civil, as many countries, including even the US, intervened). Its massive atrocities against civilians played a significant role in making Siberian population pro-Bolshevik. In 1939, after Britain and France sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler in Munich, Prague and the rest of Czechia meekly accepted German occupation. In the following years Czech industries busily produced armaments for Nazi Germany. In 1945 the residents of Prague readily accepted Soviet Army (as you say, “believing that good times were ahead”), and then proceeded to brutally kick defenseless German civilians from Sudetenland. Several thousand Germans were murdered there, and many more (15 to 30 thousand by latest estimates) died of hunger and disease as the result of the expulsion. To give you a comparison, the expulsion was a lot more hurried and brutal than the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Prussia, annexed by the USSR. Then Czechs meekly accepted the communist regime that was “holier than the Pope” in the Eastern Block. Then in 1968 Czechs revolted, but that revolt folded with a wimp much quicker than a similar revolt in Hungary in 1956. Next, in the “velvet revolution” in 1989 they stupidly followed Havel, who became president and marked his rule by expulsion of many Prague residents from their apartments, because his rich family owned those apartments before 1945. Then Czechs cursed Havel and his “revolution” in private (Slovaks separated in that period), but meekly submitted to every indignity that followed. Then they overwhelmingly voted to become a NATO colony in 1999. Overall, Czech history after 1989 is best described by a Russian saying “what we fought for has befallen us”.

  279. Mike P says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Nothing new in that book, as far as I can see. It is strictly conventional and quite superficial.

    Many German officers who took part in the invasion have said that the major reason for their initial successes was the lack of Russian defensive preparedness and deployment. I’ll take that over the speculations of some American military historians any time.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  280. @Mike P

    Many German officers who took part in the invasion have said that the major reason for their initial successes was the lack of Russian defensive preparedness and deployment. I’ll take that over the speculations of some American military historians any time.

    This is precisely why the United States cannot win a single war since Korea. But I am sure even this fact could be spun in such a way, that all those failures could be turned into victories and anything that contradicts those claims will be termed as “I’ll take it over the speculation…” Ah, wait, we already have it;)

    Obviously, purely American invention, by Colonel Boyd, of OODA Loop and the way it influences the war was completely lost on many US policy makers and “scholars” who have no grasp what Observe and Orient are and how to do it. But then again, empirical evidence is useless in the age of the post-truth. So, good luck in your “scholarly” pursuits.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  281. Mike P says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    But then again, empirical evidence is useless in the age of the post-truth. So, good luck in your “scholarly” pursuits.

    I observe that you have not given a single factual argument; all you have done is to invoke the authority of some American military historians.

    Both the Americans and the Russians fabricated evidence and perjured themselves over the holocaust, Katyn forest, and all the rest, at Nuremberg and ever since. Why would anyone of sound mind take their word for anything else concerning WW2? I respect your intellect, but I don’t think you are capable of objectivity when it comes to Mother Russia.

  282. I observe that you have not given a single factual argument; all you have done is to invoke the authority of some American military historians.

    It is blatantly untrue, which could easily be dispelled by merely clicking on my handle and, if you want to spend any time reading what I wrote here in years, you will find everything you say is not given. I omit giving here links to my books and other publications, military science has no place in this discussion;)

    Both the Americans and the Russians fabricated evidence and perjured themselves over the holocaust,

    This is why I surrender, and agree with all your points. You defeated me and I admit it. As I said, good luck with your scholarly endeavors.

    • Troll: Mike P
    • Replies: @refl
  283. Ron Unz says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Actually it doesn’t and, is, in fact, in the foundation of an American delusion about WW II and its own role in it because most of it was formed and greatly influenced by primarily Nazi sources and witnesses.

    I’ve frequently seen you and other critics of “the Suvorov Hypothesis” claim that it was orchestrated by the CIA or other Western intelligence agencies as an anti-Soviet propaganda ploy during the Cold War. But I don’t think that makes any sense. My article from a couple of years ago discusses much of the background:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-stalin-almost-conquered-europe/

    As I emphasized, the very plausible theory that the Hitler’s attack on the USSR narrowly forestalled and averted a gigantic Soviet invasion and conquest of Europe has for decades been totally banned and blacklisted in the entire English-language media and publishing industry to such an extent that I’d never even heard of it until just a few years ago. Meanwhile, Suvorov’s books sold in the millions in Russia, Germany, and numerous other countries all around the world, and even inspired international academic conferences.

    If the CIA and MI5 were behind Icebreaker and his follow-up volumes, why did they seem to totally ban and prohibit its appearance as an English-language book for decades, along with any significant mention in all the media organs they influenced, including coverage in newspapers, magazines, TV, and radio?

    Meanwhile, the very few and scanty mentions of his hypothesis by members of the American establishment have been along these lines:

    Several years ago, I came across a website debate on the topic, and one strong critic claimed that Suvorov’s theories had been totally debunked by American military historian David M. Glantz in Stumbling Colossus, published in 1998. But when I ordered and read the book I was sorely disappointed. Although purporting to refute Suvorov, the author seemed to ignore almost all of his central arguments, and merely provided a rather dull and pedantic recapitulation of the standard narrative I had previously seen hundreds of times, laced with a few rhetorical excesses denouncing the unique vileness of the Nazi regime. Most ironically, Glantz emphasizes that although Suvorov’s analysis of the titanic Russo-German military struggle had gained great attention and considerable support among both Russian and German scholars, it had been generally ignored in the Anglo-American world, and he almost seems to imply that it can probably be disregarded for that reason. Perhaps this attitude reflected the cultural arrogance of many American intellectual elites during Russia’s disastrous Yeltsin Era of the late 1990s.

    http://www.unz.com/article/debunking-myths-of-red-brown-alliances/#comment-3184003

    Personally, I think that the evidence in favor of the Suvorov Hypothesis is simply overwhelming. But regardless of whether or not others agree, the three decades of total blacklisting by the American MSM certainly proves that it wasn’t concocted for propaganda purposes by the CIA or its close allies.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  284. As I emphasized, the very plausible theory that the Hitler’s attack on the USSR narrowly forestalled and averted a gigantic Soviet invasion and conquest of Europe has for decades been totally banned and blacklisted in the entire English-language

    Ron, I am not into the conspiracy theories, because I know the state of the Red Army and Soviet Diplomacy prior to Barbarossa and I would rather stick to opinions (I deliberately omit here Russian sources, which, as we all know are fabricated by NKVD and all are fake) of senior US Army officers with appropriate training in issues of operations, strategy and staff work, apart from being military historians of international repute, than to discuss some red herring concocted by a guy with agenda. As I already stated, we live in the age of the post-truth where expertise doesn’t matter and everything is just the matter of personal preferences. As I already stated, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have mine, you have yours. I have theories and many of them are plausible, but very few of them are actually correct. That is why I prefer to stick to facts and reliable sources.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  285. refl says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Both the Americans and the Russians fabricated evidence and perjured themselves over the holocaust,

    This is why I surrender, and agree with all your points.

    Well, you do not get away that easily. What has become clear over the various threads on WWII here is, that significant accepted truths about that time simply do not stand scrutiny. Now you can say that that is a western problem and that from your viewpoint you always knew that the scholarly discussion of WWII in the West is self serving.

    I am quite willing to accept that the picture of Stalin as a crazy monstrous killer is a caricature – so much should always have been obvious, anyhow. Still, it necessarily follows that the next caricature to be demolished is the supreme evil of the Nazis – I have no idea what the corrected picture will look like in the end, but so much is clear.
    Now, the thing is that Germany as the Reich is gone for good. If you take away from modern Germans their status as Supreme Villains In The History Of The World, they will be shocked and utterly disappointed, because what should remain of them if they are not even exceptional in their evilness?
    There will be noone to call for the resurrection or even historical justice for that entity. The storyline that Germany acted against the Soviet Union preemtively has been resurrected repeatedly for the obvious reason that it fits the narrative to shift attention from Germany to the next mayor power on the ToDo list. It is not Germany demanding justice, but simply the next step in the game.

    Stalin certainly had no illusions about geopolitics, so the question remains what he really was planning. For the very little that I understand, just to much of the German planning for the war was so criminaly inadequate that it can not have been the result of yearlong preparation. Either, Adolf Hitler as an early version of Miss Merkel had the sudden capriccio that he had to save the world from Stalin and pulled his people along into disaster (and, yes indeed, putting to death Slavs in the tens of millions on the way), or the German military planners found themselves in a situation where they bet it all on their one last chance.
    You may well find this boring and say that it has been answered over and over, but the question will keep coming back.

    The era of the World Wars was a high stake power play that is gaining force again right now, and I can assure you, that for the modest but decade long studies of history that I have done, the term geopolitics has never been uttered.
    The idea that jewish power played a role was never mentioned (well, the professor to try mention it would have lost his job on the spot), and never was it mentioned that the US-Soviet cooperation did not come out of thin air, but was prepared in the Roosevelt administration.
    Military history is one thing, but the political guidelines were far to complex as to dismiss out of hand that Stalin had plans of his own.

  286. @Ron Unz

    May I intrude onto your discussion with some simple questions? Basically, can either you or Andrei tell me whether other Hitler’s attacks on quite a few countries were preemptive? To name them: Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Luxemburg, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, France. If they were, then it is plausible that the attack on the USSR was also preemptive. If they weren’t, it is logical to believe that none of Hitler’s attacks were preemptive, all of them were pure aggression. N’est-ce pas?

    There is also an issue of Lebensraum, a concept that Hitler embraced, which was proposed long before some of the countries attacked by Germany, including the USSR, even existed. Could you please elaborate?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  287. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    May I intrude onto your discussion with some simple questions? Basically, can either you or Andrei tell me whether other Hitler’s attacks on quite a few countries were preemptive?

    Sure, I discussed my understanding of the whole history of World War II in an article a few weeks ago. It’s certainly very long, but you really should read it if you’re interested in the subject and haven’t already done so:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/

    Probably the biggest instigator of World War II was American President Franklin Roosevelt, whose domestic policies had largely failed by 1937. Therefore, he decided to foment a foreign war to get himself out of his economic mess and perhaps allow him to run for an unprecedented third term. Originally, he was apparently thinking of starting a war against Japan, but he then decided to orchestrate a war against Germany instead.

    The other major factor were the organized Jewish groups. Jews had seized earlier control of a huge fraction of Germany’s internal wealth, and they then tried to orchestrate a war against Hitler for dislodging them from their control over his country.

    This is exactly parallel to the activities of the Jewish Neocons, who have spent the last decade or more seething with hatred towards Putin and even trying to foment a war against Russia because Putin dislodged several of the Jewish Oligarchs who had seized such a large fraction of Russia’s wealth and came close to gaining political control of the country.

    My long article draws upon the writings of numerous once extremely influential and credible journalists and academics, many of whom were consequently purged from public life for describing events at variance with the later “official” narrative. The same fate would certainly befall any contemporaneous figure who takes a similarly “contrarian” view regarding Putin’s recent activities.

    I believe that the widespread traditional narrative of Hitler’s “unprovoked aggression” against various European countries and his goal of conquering Europe (or the world) is about as accurate and realistic as the equally widespread current narrative of Putin’s “unprovoked aggression” against Georgia and Ukraine and his goal of conquering Europe (or the world).

    Essentially, I think there’s overwhelming evidence that the entire standard American narrative of World War II is upside down and backwards.

  288. I don’t doubt underhanded dealings of Roosevelt, or even more underhanded dealings of Jewish oligarchs, or equally treacherous dealings of perfidious England that you forgot to mention. However, the fact remains that neither of these undoubtedly untrustworthy players occupied and dismembered Czechoslovakia (although Brits and French certainly sold it out to Hitler in Munich), attacked and occupied Poland, Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and then France. None of them attacked the USSR, either. So, any theory I would seriously consider must explain these facts. Failing that, it is wrong.

    I have no doubt that official American narrative about anything, including the founding of said America, is a pack of lies. But there is infinite number of explanations substantively differing from the official American narrative of WWII, so the fact that a certain theory falls into this category does not prove it correct.

  289. @refl

    Well, you do not get away that easily

    Oh yes I do. I want to be shown those mysterious matrices and “calculations” which Rezun references, which show (any professional knows that it is BS but still) allegedly that Red Army was about to “attack”. Who “calculated”, what matrices, in accordance to what norms of supply (combat rations) and by what number of echelons (trains) was it delivered, where was it stored, how it corresponded to Field Manual (PU-39) from 1939. What Chapter 6 of manual states about Materiel Provision (Supplies) for the combat of the Army. How Contingency Planning was done on the level of General Staff. I know the answers to these and about thousand more questions (you know, like what is the width of the front, what was the depth of the strategic offensive etc.), what reports of Narkom of RKKA in 1939 tell about the state of the Red Army. So, it is not my task to respond to platitudes. How the Army which out of 173 nominal divisions in 1940 had only 46 which satisfied norms of full TOE of….a peacetime, was ready to attack, for a person who never wrote and confirmed in the superior staff simplest Plan of Combat Training (PBIPP) it is a waste of time, especially for people who are simply completely insulated from actual Russia history and language. So, yes I do get away that easily.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @refl
  290. @Ron Unz

    They laughed at Dr. Time Cube Man aka Eugene “Gene” Ray, so therefore Galileo must have been right all along? Or is it the other way around? I forget. The Putler Gambit? Same logic?

  291. I am watching all your theories here but I am really disappointed. There is nothing realistic in it.
    So please let me help you little bit.
    There was no gigantic military plan of USSR to invade Europe. That is an idiocy.
    Soviet Politburo international struggle went under slogan ” Workers of the world unite. and throw the oppressors down. And the leaders of workers should be led by communist party. Internationale. That was already worked out by Marx and Engels. In Russia was the first takeover of power by communists.
    In some of European countries communist party already did have a history.
    Although Stalin was not really enthusiastic, Russian Politburo adopted directives to support communist parties that were in existence and create communist parties in states where there was none. Also support communist parties by any means. Financially, and also giving them political and tactical education. Leaderships of different Communist parties were invited into Soviet Union for practical education.
    Communist parties were growing in power alongside national socialism in Germany.
    Growth of these communist parties in western Europe were direct threat to Hitler.
    Germany did not have a good experience with eight day communist rule by Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxembourg.
    In all countries Hitler took over Communist party was liquidated.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………..
    Most people would characterize it as subversive activity of Soviet Union all over the world.

    l

  292. @Ron Unz

    Sorry for my mistake, # 296 was meant as a response to you.

  293. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    There is a big difference between subversive activity and military aggression, which inevitably means mass murder. It is about the same as the difference between arguing with you and murdering you in cold blood.

  294. peterAUS says:
    @refl

    ….the question will keep coming back.

    Yes.

    Disclaimer: I don’t like to get involved in these…ahm…debates, but, there is some relation to the current world, so here I go.

    First, my angle is simple: Lebensraum, Untermensch..stuff like that. Or…Nazi regime intended to take over those lands and enslave the Russians there.
    Now, after the above statements disqualifies me in the eyes of the resident 88 cultists, just my 2 cents re

    ….the German planning for the war was so criminaly inadequate that it can not have been the result of yearlong preparation. Either, Adolf Hitler as an early version of Miss Merkel had the sudden capriccio…

    Briefly: Nazi regime, with the Fuhrer principle, underestimated the enemy.

    Or…hubris.
    The man on top and his closest associates (and only they really mattered in that game) were drunk from their victories in the West. And, they as the base, used Red Army performance against Fins.

    History is full of such mistakes. The second element of METT-T.

    The real question is, actually: why is that hard to accept that they simply made that mistake?
    He/they were just men. Weren’t they?

    And, one more thing.
    Afer he made that mistake he did not learn from it. He doubled down. And the system couldn’t fix that.

    Makes sense?

    • Replies: @refl
  295. @Ron Unz

    Interesting. I was under the impression that the attacks on Putin generally resulted as Russia was the type of country that best fit the profile for demonization by the Deep State, rich but not too powerful, and geographically isolated, so the agencies can make great bank off villifying and organizing public sentiment against them.

  296. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    equally treacherous dealings of perfidious England that you forgot to mention.

    Actually, as I recount in my article, most of the top British leaders certainly wanted to avoid a war, which they (correctly) believed would be totally disastrous for their country. But another large group of them received tens of millions of dollars of bribes (in present day terms) from the Czechs and Jews to instigate a war with Germany, and they eventually succeeded.

    It’s pretty similar to how William Browder, Berezovsky, and Khodorkovsky spread millions of dollars in British and American political circles to get all the politicians and media people to denounce, sanction, and threaten Russia. In fact, if not for nuclear weapons, they might have even been able to foment a war against Russia by now.

    But there is infinite number of explanations substantively differing from the official American narrative of WWII, so the fact that a certain theory falls into this category does not prove it correct.

    Well, there’s obviously no way to be sure. But the evidence seems absolutely overwhelming to me.

    As I discuss early in my long article, AJP Taylor was generally considered Britain’s most prominent historian in the early 1960s, and also regarded as strongly anti-German. But when he finally decided to look into the origins of WWII, he published a book strongly demonstrating that Hitler certainly had no intention of starting a war, and never “dismembered” Czechoslovakia (any more than Putin “dismembered” Ukraine). The book became a great classic and was still on my Harvard required reading list two decades later. But Taylor was purged from Oxford as a result.

    A very long list of leading journalists and scholars in both Britain and America were also purged both before and after for roughly similar reasons. High-ranking former American military intelligence officers wrote books saying roughly the same thing, with their views endorsed by top American generals. I discuss all this at great length in my article.

    Most of these individuals had their careers destroyed for taking those positions, which leads me to believe they were probably sincere. And their books and articles seemed very convincing to me.

    Just yesterday I was talking with an elderly aunt of mine who’s very liberal and has read The Nation for decades. She was shocked to learn from me a while back that Prof. Stephen Cohen, whom she greatly admired, had effectively been purged from the pages of that magazine for his “discordant” views on Russia/Ukraine, despite his wife being the longtime publisher.

    But when I happened to mention Putin, she described him categorically as “a bloodthirsty, corrupt dictator” and it seemed unlikely that I could change her view, given that she’s heard it from 100% of all her sources. Indeed, on one of his podcasts, Cohen argued that no political leader since Hitler has been so demonized by the American media. So my guess is that just about all “educated” Americans “know” that Putin the Tyrant launched unprovoked aggression against Georgia and Ukraine.

    Obviously, some individuals such as Cohen, have a different perspective, but they’ve all been purged from the MSM, so my aunt had never encountered any of them.

    Frankly, the analogy between Putin/Russia and Hitler/Germany seems a remarkably close one to me. On that point, I totally agree with the MSM.

    • Agree: Ilyana_Rozumova
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  297. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @refl

    Still, it necessarily follows…..

    No, it does not. It may advise caution but it doesn’t necessarily mean anything else.

  298. @Ron Unz

    Analogy is often a double-edged sword. Besides, analogies are goof rhetorical devices, but poor substitute for proof. Thing is, I still don’t see any coherent answer regarding German occupation of Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and France. Or maybe none of this happened? Or maybe those countries were occupied by Martians?

    Considering that you are usually quite logical and eloquent, the fact that you studiously avoid answering this question is telling.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  299. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I still don’t see any coherent answer regarding German occupation of Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and France. Or maybe none of this happened?…Considering that you are usually quite logical and eloquent, the fact that you studiously avoid answering this question is telling.

    Sorry. But remember I just published a 20,000 word article on this subject, based upon dozens of books I’d read over the years, and even referenced the one by renowned historian AJP Taylor in my comment. Obviously, WWII is a big subject, but I suppose I might as well address a few of those cases you raise, though it really seems a little ridiculous.

    (1) Czechoslovakia was never a “real country,” but actually a mini-empire, in which the Czechs plurality used various dishonest means to maintain total control over very large minorities of highly-discontented Germans, Slovaks, and other groups. After Hitler freed the Germans for Germany, the Slovaks and the others also escaped Czech rule and the “empire” fell apart, while Poland and Hungary grabbed back bits that the Czechs had stolen after WWI. The Czechs had previously been ruled by Germans for something like 1000 years, and the new Czech government naturally turned to Germany to protect them against their ravenous neighbors, though the details are disputed. According to all the evidence I’ve seen, Heydrich was quite popular among the Czechs, partly because he extended to them the social welfare benefits that Germans had long enjoyed under Hitler.

    (2) Hitler made every effort to enlist Poland as an ally and merely asked that they let him incorporate the almost entirely German city of Danzig, which they’d quasi-illegally grabbed after WWI. Instead, FDR and Jewish groups manipulated the gullible Poles into refusing all negotiations, eventually leading to war. The Poles also massacred some of their German minority to provoke Hitler, though the numbers are disputed. There’s an obvious analogy with the Donbass situation.

    (3) France declared war against Germany and even invaded the borderlands. After Hitler quickly defeated Poland, he tried to make peace with Britain and France, but they refused, so eventually he attacked France, naturally marching through the Low Countries, which (as I vaguely recall) were military allies of France.

    (4) Just prior to that, Britain and France planned an invasion of neutral Norway, hoping to cut Germany off from Sweden’s vital iron ore. But the Germans discovered the plan, and in a brilliant campaign preempted the Allied invasion force, naturally having marching through Denmark along the way.

    (5) During wartime, big powers typically occupy small countries that happen to be in the way or are otherwise strategically vital. I’d say the USSR was much less justified in occupying the other half of Poland or the three Baltic countries, or attacking and trying to occupy Finland. Later in the war, Britain and Russia jointly occupied Iran, and the Allies occupied various Middle Eastern countries with little legal justification around that time, or just overthrew their governments.

    I realize this isn’t your main area of focus, but you really might want to read AJP Taylor’s classic 1961 book, or even just my long article.

    I really do think the “official narrative” of WWII, which both you and almost all Americans follow, is just as ridiculous as today’s almost universal American belief that Putin is a bloodthirsty, corrupt dictator, who brutally attacked both Georgia and Ukraine, shot down MH17, and is planning to conquer Europe. Plus all the Democrats believe that he stole the 2020 election for Donald Trump…

    • Agree: PeterMX, Robjil
    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @AnonFromTN
  300. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    It is amazing how words can manipulate peoples minds so that they believe they are being noble and good when they are interfering in something that they have no business being involved in and their reasons for getting involved have nothing to do with the supposedly noble purpose which is repeated ad-nauseum until the lie becomes accepted as truth.

    Czechoslovakia had never been a country until 1919 when it was created to weaken Germans in Europe. The Czech portion was made up of Bohemia and Moravia. I believe Slovak territory was separate. These areas had always been a part of the Austrian Empire, also known as the Holy Roman Empire for a long time and then the Austro-Hungarian Empire when Hungarians gained independence from Austrian rule while remaining a part of the empire.

    Czechs had never been an independent country. They lived with Germans throughout their history. Prague was as much a German (Austrian to be exact) city as iy was Czech, maybe more so. The German (Austrian) population was very high until at some point the Czechs moved in and became a majority. I’ve heard it said that Germans founded Prague. If they did not, they still had as much to do with its development as Czechs. The capital of Slovakia, now known as Bratislava, was known as Pressburg (that’s German) until 1919. What business is this of you, as an American, or the British or French. None, except a desire to weaken German and Austrian power on Europe. When Czechoslovakia was created by ripping the territory from Austria-Hungary its three biggest ethnic groups were Czechs, Germans and Slovaks. There were more Germans than Slovaks, 3 to 3.5 million Germans and I believe about 6 to 7 million Czechs. I had an uncle that was born in Prague and one born in what became known as the Sudetenland.

    This information comes from http://www.ihr.org. The video, like many others, was recently deleted by Youtube. I guess Americans have changed their mnds about that awful book burning that we have been told about thousands of times over the past 70 years. Or maybe, it just depends on who is burning the books.

    Czechs Pledge Loyalty to Homeland and The Reich

    At a mass meeting in Prague, 200,000 Czechs pledge loyalty to their homeland and to the German Reich. Czech Minister Emanuel Moravec addresses the large rally on July 3, 1942, on Wenceslas Square, near the historic statute of St. Wenceslas. He concludes with an expression of confidence in a better future for the Czech people, and of support for the “new Europe,” the “National Socialist revolution,” “our leader, Adolf Hitler,” and “our state president, Dr. Hacha.” Emil Hacha, head of the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia government is present, along with many other officials. The meeting concludes with the crowd singing the Czech national hymn. Three minute newsreel clip, with Czech narration.

    Unfortunately, Youtube has deleted many videos that expose the lies. Videos of Ukrainian, Belarussian and Russian priests, nuns and church people welcoming their German liberators warmly have been deleted. And why not greet Germans as heroes, when their own leaders burned down their churches and made life hell for them. The first and founding government was 80 to 85% Jewish according to Russian President Putin. I never heard that in my history class and I have never seen it in a mainstream American publication. It seems to me that deliberately keeping this from people is as bad as deliberately lying to them. But apparently Youtube missed one. This is a video of a huge crowd in Poland, ecstatic that the Germans have arrived and have greeted them with flowers and gestures of support. The description says this is in Poland but the news clip says the people are cheering being freed from “foreign rule”. That means one of two things. This is a former German city with its German population greeting the Germans or this is (was) eastern Poland (Poland was re-created in 1919) and would most likely be the city now called Lviv (now western Ukraine, where I just happen to be right now). Lviv was known as Lemberg (part of Austria) until 1919 and the Ukrainians there also welcomed the Germans as heroes.

    • Replies: @Reality Cheque
  301. Mike P says:
    @Ron Unz

    Excellent summary.

    • Agree: annamaria
  302. Why are we in Ukraine ? Zbigniew Brezinski provided part of the answer while writing in Foreign Affairs Magazine in 1994 :” It cannot be stressed strongly enough that without Ukraine , Russia ceases to be an Empire , but with Ukraine suborned and subordinated Russia automatically becomes an Empire .” In 1992 a government document entitled the Defence Planning Guidance stated ” Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival , either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere .” Also it helps that the Ukraine is rich in natural resources such as lithium, oil, and natural gas .

  303. refl says:
    @peterAUS

    Lebensraum, Untermensch..stuff like that. Or…Nazi regime intended to take over those lands and enslave the Russians there.

    And you are already right in the middle of it. When I come to the conclusion that Stalin was rational, I have to suppose that Hitler also was. And the generals most certainly were quite down to earth people. So, for them Nazi ideology would not have counted.

    By the way, the Soviet performance against Finland was not to be underestimated. Who in his right mind would start a war on 30th of November? In regions close to the artcic circle? The winter war rather proves the opposite, that Stalin was bursting of military strength and reckessly prepared to order his army to perform the most impossible tasks – which would prove to be a pattern over the whole period of the war.
    My basical point is that the evidence on the war is spoilt and therefore you don’t get away wird arguing about Untermenschen. The allies did their cause an extreme disservice by charging the German leadership with conspiracy against peace at Nuremberg, when it is completely obvious that the decisions during the war were mostly taken ad hoc.
    By the way, I am quite happy that the mayor lecturers of the cult have skipped this thread, so we do not have to read through their repetitive links.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @peterAUS
  304. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    In some of European countries communist party already did have a history.

    Stalin dissolved Comintern without much ado in 1943 upon sotto voce request from Allies. Stalin’s purges of Trotskists in 1930s are also rather indicative of the path USSR was taking then and allegiance to the “World Proletarian Revolution” was proclaimed purely for propaganda effect. There is huge reason behind Stalin’s famous “We need a new theory” in late 1940s (IIRC). In fact, Litvinov’s concept of Collective Security, endorsed by Stalin, but ultimately sabotaged by Great Britain and France, is a good indication that pre-WW II practical geopolitical realities trumped any concern about Comintern, albeit some Comintern operatives remained a great asset in Soviet intelligence operations, especially inside Germany.

  305. @PeterMX

    Is that in 1939 or 1941?

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  306. refl says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    especially for people who are simply completely insulated from actual Russia history and language.

    You have taken upon you the honorable task of posting on an english language international site. That is positive, because else you would leave the discussion to people who are not up to it. Therefore, you have to deal with dumbos of any color.

    I know as much, that the plan that Rezun put forward as evidence, would never have worked out. I also believe, judging on the performance of the Red army in the early part of the war, that they were not in the condition for a mayor offensive.
    But still the question remains, why a state builds 25 000 tanks, why they encroach on the borders of their prospective enemy and why they had their agents deployed across the US government.
    On the other hand, why would a professional German military staff go to war with forces that were from the start inadequate, without a task that would effectively end the war in their favor?
    All they could hope for was to wreak the country for some years and then go down in flames – as they did.

    The Soviet side would have known that a prolonged war would end in their favor – German tanks might have been better (probably not even that), their troops better trained, but that would wear off. They had to provide that the western allies would not turn against them – the rest would be achieved by the expenditure of their own people.

    To keep the western allies from switching sides, the key was the barrage of anti-German propaganda, which was provided in the American media for years. By any standards, the Germans had to believe that at some point, the western side would switch – they had been antirussian and anti Soviet ever before and they have been ever since.
    If we take away the constant that the Germans were the supreme evil, the whole motivation of the unique World War alliance falls apart.

  307. @AnonFromTN

    I don’t doubt underhanded dealings of Roosevelt, or even more underhanded dealings of Jewish oligarchs, or equally treacherous dealings of perfidious England that you forgot to mention.

    What should also not be forgotten is the actual status and state of the United States which was, frankly, in a pitiful shape economically, suffering two iterations of the Great Depression by 1938, and having her industrial output shrank 40%. In terms of the Armed Forces, the United States, with somewhat exception of the US Navy, wasn’t even in contention with Romania. In other words, while US oligarchs still had the money, it was London and Paris, not the United States who were setting European policies vis-a-vis Germany and USSR. In fact, even in 1943 US Army officers complained to George Marshall and FDR that people from the Imperial General Staff treated them as inferiors, behaved arrogantly and condescendingly towards them–so much so that it reached indeed level of FDR and Churchill. In other words, the United States didn’t become a real player until late 1941 when it reached 100% employment and dramatic expansion of her industrial output (grown out of massive payments in gold), prior to this, with some exceptions such as ABC Conference in Washington early 1941 , the United States was lead by Great Britain in relation to most important European Theater of Operations. But, of course, it rubs many people wrong in the US to admit that at THAT stage the United States was not in a position to shape crucial policies which led to the WW II, other than throwing the Western World into the economic turmoil in 1929.

  308. @refl

    But still the question remains, why a state builds 25 000 tanks, why they encroach on the borders of their prospective enemy and why they had their agents deployed across the US government.

    Out of those 25 000 tanks, most were either of light variety (a BS and pathos-ridden foundation on which Rezun makes all his claims–allegedly for fast movements on European roads in only whell config.) or very light (machine-gun armed) tanks with almost zero combat value. In comparison. Modern Russian Armed Forces have around 12, 000 tanks both active and in reserve (storage), Russia also quit the Treaty on the Conventional Forces in Europe and has many units deployed near her Western borders. So, is Russia about to attack? Especially in a view of Russian Army restoring shock tank armies and going back basically to division structure at her Western borders. As per agents, as we all know, the United States is run by Putin agents and even POTUS is a Colonel of SVR and his real name is Trampov. Russian agents are everywhere in the US. CIA and FBI? Fronts for SVR and FSB. You don’t believe me? Turn on CNN, MSNBC or read NYT or WaPo. Indeed, why would modern Russia worry about peaceful and nice United States which in the last 30 years destroyed number of countries, killed millions of people, with millions displaced. Why would those stupid Soviet commies worry about really nice, sentimental Hitler who and his ilk considered Russians subhumans and dreamed (since the time of Haushoffer) about Lebensraum. Nah, it is all fantasies, right?

    • Replies: @refl
  309. @Ron Unz

    Thanks for a detailed response. However, I am sorry to say, but it reminds me of a Russian dark humor joke.
    A guy is accused of killing another by stabbing him seven times. The accused guy tells his version of the story;
    – Yes, Your Honor, we quarreled, but the rest was an accident. That guy slipped and fell straight onto my knife. He did it six more times.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  310. “Democrats are becoming a war party.”

    Becoming? What about both world wars, Korea and Vietnam? Aren’t those on the list of democrat wars? When has the democrat party actually opposed the 21st century wars?

    You wouldn’t say that democrats are becoming anti-Trump, would you?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  311. @Kolya Krassotkin

    True, and it’s a shame that none of them got there by being hanged for their crimes.

  312. @refl

    To keep the western allies from switching sides, the key was the barrage of anti-German propaganda, which was provided in the American media for years.

    Pardon, forgot to respond to this. Here is the deal, the ONLY side which was worried about “switching sides” were Western Allies who were afraid that Stalin and Hitler may settle by 1942. This was dispelled by none other than British Intelligence which in its report in 1942 underscored that atrocities committed by Nazis on Soviet territory and the scale of military losses on both sides completely precluded any possibility of any compromise between Axis and USSR. In real geopolitics and military matters what really has significance is not propaganda, but strategic tangibles one delivers and USSR and Red Army were delivering a bulk and that is what really mattered. You should read Ike’s entry in his diary in 1942 when Operation Sledgehammer was defeated by British. These were not Soviets, but Western Allies who were terrified of USSR “switching”. But then again, the way history is taught in US (or, in general) West–it is a whole other thing altogether. Dr. Seuss knew in 1942 what was up, unless, unless Dr. Seuss was a Soviet agent!!

  313. @Twodees Partain

    Yes, Democrats started more wars that Republicans. But neither party is innocent, or even sane, for that matter. A Republican president, Bush Jr, started wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Although Dems are responsible for Serbia, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and Ukraine, the score is hardly one-sided.

    I am no fan of Trump, he is a hapless moron clearly out of his depth. But compared to cackling hyena and most of today’s Democrats, he looks pretty good and remarkably sane.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  314. Mike P says:

    Regarding the question of Soviet offensive plans, there is a recent book by former East German major general and division commander Bernd Schwipper, PhD, “Deutschland im Visier Stalins”, or “Germany in Stalin’s crosshairs”. I have not yet read it, but ordered it – it is a 550 page tome. I have watched an hour-long talk by Schwipper, which you can find at

    Unfortunately in German with Saxonian accent – the closed captions are completely garbled and thus untranslatable (apparently Google hasn’t mastered that dialect yet). Schwipper speaks with the understatement and cool precision typical of old-school military officers (some of them, of course, are given to arrogant, content-free bluster, as evident on this thread). He is fluent in Russian and has spent several years investigating his topic in Russian archives.

    Schwipper arrives at the conclusion that Stalin was planning to attack already in summer 1940, and that this attack was only forestalled by the unexpectedly rapid collapse of France, which freed up the main strength of the Wehrmacht.

  315. @refl

    Read lonely soldier in battlefield. By Urho Kekkonen (Finn). You will find out who did start the Finnish Russian war.
    Here is a hint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It was not Russia.

  316. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Thanks for a detailed response. However, I am sorry to say, but it reminds me of a Russian dark humor joke….Yes, Your Honor, we quarreled, but the rest was an accident. That guy slipped and fell straight onto my knife. He did it six more times.

    Well, I certainly might be mistaken in my historical analysis. After all, it’s hardly easy to attempt to extract a few nuggets of actual reality from within a huge mountain of dishonest propaganda. I could certainly be wrong…

    So maybe Putin really is a bloodthirsty dictator, who brutally attacked Georgia and Ukraine, illegally seized Crimea, committed all sorts of war-crimes in Syria, assassinated numerous political critics, and even installed a blackmailed puppet as president of the U.S. Given so much evidence of so many different international crimes, he surely must be guilty of many of them.

    But when you have a chance, you really should take a look at my long WWII article and decide for yourself:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  317. @Ron Unz

    See, that’s where presumed analogies are misleading. The Empire made a lot of enemies. Even though the imperial policies were despicable for the last century or more, not all its enemies were any good. Some were even worse than the Empire. Based on what I know, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in WWII fall into that category.

    I’ll read your article, though – at least you always try to make sense, whereas the imperial propaganda lately doesn’t even bother to invent reasonably plausible lies.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  318. PeterMX says:
    @Reality Cheque

    Germany attacked Poland in 1939 so that should be September 1939. But you never know if the person that created the video did not do his own splicng together of things. But I would say the people cheering the Germans are almost vertainly not Germans thenselves. Germany did not have peasants, certainly not in cities and they would not dress like that,

    • Replies: @anon
  319. peterAUS says:
    @refl

    Now I know why you keep saying “you don’t get away”. Must happen a lot. Getting away, I mean.

    Moving on.

  320. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Keeping that comment in mind, I wonder how many Americans think that President Trump and Democrat Tulsi Gabbard are both Russian agents that work together with the Russian government?This has been claimed repeatedly by much of the US mainstream media and Hillary Clinton and a 3 year investigation was only recently concluded that looked into the allegation that Russia worked with Trump to steal the US election. Americans are outrageous liars and contrary to claims, Goebbels was nuch more honest than Americans, including FDR.

    The following is how the Polish ambassador to the US describes the lying US media in the 1930’s.

    In early 1938, the Polish ambassador to the US, Jerzy Potocki reported back to Warsaw on his observations of the American political scene:

    The pressure of the Jews on President Roosevelt and on the State Department is becoming ever more powerful… The Jews are right now the leaders in creating a war psychosis which would plunge the entire world into war and bring about general catastrophe. This mood is becoming more and more apparent. In their definition of democratic states, the Jews have also created real chaos; they have mixed together the idea of democracy and communism, and have above all raised the banner of burning hatred against Nazism.

    This hatred has become a frenzy. It is propagated everywhere and by every means: in theaters, in the cinema, and in the press. The Germans are portrayed as a nation living under the arrogance of Hitler which wants to conquer the whole world and drown all of humanity in an ocean of blood. In conversations with Jewish press representatives, I have repeatedly come up against the inexorable and convinced view that war is inevitable. This international Jewry exploits every means of propaganda to oppose any tendency towards any kind of consolidation and understanding between nations. In this way, the conviction is growing steadily but surely in public opinion here that the Germans and their satellites, in the form of fascism, are enemies who must be subdued by the ‘democratic world.

    With this in mind, why would anyone be surprised at the views Americans have? And as candidate Trump said during the 2016 election, the US “lied” about Iraq having WMD. It wasn’t a mistake. It was a lie.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  321. @AnonFromTN

    I was engaging in a little bit of snark by calling out the OP’s statement that the democrats are “becoming a war party”, when they and their republican allies always have been such. I should have used the {/snark} tag.

  322. @PeterMX

    Of course, most of the imperial propaganda is a bunch of lies. Iraq WMDs and that vial Powell shook at the UN are typical examples. In fact, WMD lie was at least remotely plausible, although in fact the US and Europe supplied Saddam with chemical weapons components to use against Iran, and as soon as these supplies dried out, Saddam did not have any more. Nowadays globohomo propaganda does not even bother to come up with plausible lies, pushing ridiculously implausible ones about everything and everyone: Trump, Gabbard, Skripal affair, Syrian chemical weapons, Putin, etc.

    But here is a catch, that I’ve pointed out above: even though the imperial policies were despicable for the last century or more, not all enemies of the Empire were any good. Some were even worse than the Empire. Based on what I know, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in WWII fall into that category.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  323. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @PeterMX

    Sheesh…. it says right in your video that those are Germans cheering the German invasion.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @PeterMX
  324. @anon

    Surprise, surprise! So, person’s agenda makes him/her not only blind, but also deaf.

  325. refl says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    why would modern Russia worry about peaceful and nice United States which in the last 30 years destroyed number of countries, killed millions of people, with millions displaced.

    You need not teach me on that hypocrisy. It is my starting point – as it will be for most western readers here, regardless what else be their persuasion.

    When in Germany, you try to change the perspective on WWII, then you are always invited to dump it on the Russians: Let it be (now without discussing what is true or relevant or whatever) initiating the war, Soviet failures during the war, war crimes, rapes, deportations, what else you may find.

    If I tried the same with the western side, I would be in serious trouble. I would like to rub the terror bombings or the Rheinwiesenlager under their noses, you see? And then there are all the issues that you don’t even know about, unless you dig deep, which are the machinations between the British and Americans to bring about the war, how they turned down any attempt to end the war in the West, how they gained their confessions in Nuremberg by torture and so on. Maybe, this is all completely wrong, but the fact that it cannot be mentioned forces the thought that there is something behind.
    For if the US kills and regime changes its adversaries all over the world, why should I not see WWII as the mother of all regime changes, executed by proxy.

    I have always been a docile sheep until Ukraine 2014 – the generation of my grandfathers went to their graves as the greatest assholes ever, and in their lifetime I would never have discussed that. And now 30 years on, we are told that maybe svastikas are not really that bad?
    Now, when I want to dig up the dirt that has been kept hidden all the time, I want to see all the dirt. Maybe, you understand that. Anyway, thank you for taking the time.

    • Agree: Robjil
  326. PeterMX says:
    @anon

    Well, I missed that. Maybe that is why Youtube didn’t delete it. As I said, there is film of large numbers of Ukrainians ans Belarussians that welcomed German troops that Youtube deleted so no one will see it.

    • Replies: @anon
  327. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @PeterMX

    Byelorussians? No. I don’t believe it, and you’ve demonstrated how reliable you are as a witness, even of videos.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
    , @PeterMX
  328. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I know you believe that. It’s not surprising at all. Many people still believe the Germans made Jews into soap and lampshades and that millions of people were murdered at Auschwitz. Those were both lies too, admitted to be lies, but never apologized for. In fact, when a lie against the Germans is found out, no public announcement is made to the world and many still repeat those lies long after they are admitted to.

    Much of WW II propaganda was and is not plausible either. So, when scientists and engineers examine the so called holocaust, they are smeared across the media board and arrested so the lies can be kept going.

    Do you find this plausible? On Navy Day, October 27, 1941 FDR made a speech in which he said he was holding a map made by the Gernans showing their plan to take over South America. This speech was made four months after Germany invaded the USSR and they were already at war with Great Britain. France had surrendered and was occupied. Do you believe Gernany would launch an attack on South America while it’s already fighting both the USSR and Great Britain? I would bet most Americans nelieve this when they see it. What they haven’t been told is that the British created that map and fed it to FDR and they admitted to this in the 1970’s. But, lets suppose the British never admitted to creating this map. Is that plausible to you? I would think it is, just as many believe the ridiculous claims of the Democrats. I believe that if you repeat something often enough you can get people to believe anything.

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p125_Weber.html

    My agenda is to expose the many lies about the war.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  329. PeterMX says:
    @anon

    What a ridiculous comment. I missed something, so big deal. I’m sure you don’t believe it. Fortunately for you, Youtube has removed these videos so you can go on believeing the fairytales you’ve been told. But if I do find another version of it, I would not expect any apology from the likes of you.

  330. @PeterMX

    Look, I do not just believe, I know for sure that there are a lot of lies in the “official narrative” about WWII. One example you keep using is so called Holocaust. Lots of Jews promote that lie for purely financial reasons: they’ve been successfully milking Germany using that pretext. I know that the fairy tales about soap and lampshades are just that, fairy tales. I don’t know how many people died at Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps, but I am pretty sure that the number was grossly inflated, likely manifold, like the number of victims of Stalin’s repressions, for the same propaganda purposes.

    Of course, it is impossible that Germany would plan any attack on South America when it was hopelessly stuck in the war with the USSR. I am almost sure that if the Brits didn’t fake that map for FDR, he’s order his minions to fake it, again for propaganda purposes.

    But I also know what the Nazis did in the parts of the USSR they occupied. And I know that not from propaganda (which is always full of lies), but from the people who actually lived through it: my grandparents, my mother, her sisters and brother, etc. Nazis shot the husband of my grandfather’s sister for refusal to work for them. Nazis rounded and forcefully transported many teenagers for slave labor in Germany. My mother and her siblings hid from them in a remote hamlet occupied by Italians, who took food and drink from locals, but never committed any atrocities. I know that Nazis essentially raised many cities in the USSR, including Stalingrad, Kiev, Minsk, and thousands of others. Again, I know that first-hand, as I was in these three cities and saw for myself that there are hardly any buildings that date from prewar period.

    So, I know that a lot of stories promoted by the US propaganda are false, some invented 100%, “comrade Ogilvy”-style, some contain maybe 10% or the truth, which was twisted beyond recognition. But I also know that the Nazis are the scum of the Earth, guilty of many despicable crimes against civilians. One thing does not contradict the other. All empires aspiring to dominate other countries are deeply criminal.

  331. PeterMX says:
    @anon

    Here is a short film clip of Ukrainians welcoming German troops in Lviv. If I find one of Byelorussians again I will let you know. You must be an expert on Slavic peoples. What is the difference between Byelorussians and Ukrainians that Ukrainians welcomed the Germans but Btelorussians would not, according to you..

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1208502/German-WW2-soldiers-receive-warm-welcome-Lviv-Ukraine.html

    • Replies: @anon
  332. Sparkon says:

    This article from Russia Insider by Øystein Rygg Haanæs claims a book by researcher Johannes Due Enstad “Destroys Myth of Unified Russian Resistance to Nazis – MANY Supported Germany, Hated Stalin.”

    But why did so many Russians show such a benevolent attitude towards the occupation force?

    “Stalin had failed to generate a strong bond of faith between the Russian peasants and the regime. On the contrary, he was much hated by many peasants who had seen their lives go from bad to worse because of the collective farming the regime had implemented with great brutality,” Enstad explains.

    A source from the book puts it like this:

    “My forefathers were prosperous farmers; the Bolsheviks made them into slaves and beggars”.

    From 1929 onwards, the farmers were forced into collective farms – kolkhozes – often under slave-like conditions. Kulaks – affluent farmers – should be eliminated as a social class, according to Stalinist ideology .

    https://russia-insider.com/en/history/new-book-destroys-myth-unified-russian-resistance-nazis-many-supported-germany-hated-stalin

  333. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @PeterMX

    You must be an expert on Slavic peoples.

    Quite. And the difference is sufficient. Are you in Lvow, or was that the other guy? Ask them about their youth going as migrant workers to harvest mangels in Dzyarzhynsk.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
    , @AnonFromTN
  334. @refl

    Now, when I want to dig up the dirt that has been kept hidden all the time, I want to see all the dirt

    Real history, and especially military-political history is an extremely complex subject, which requires serious training in a variety of fields. One of the most important, if not defining requirements for any person who wants to make own competent opinion, not some alternative reality BS, on some very complex issue such as WW II is a requirement to be able to assess sources in their validity or otherwise. It is slightly more “complex” skill than merely narrating from a secondary or tertiary opinion pieces. Most people wouldn’t even understand what military archives and data are and how to handle them, because most of them have zero military or intelligence training. Moreover, most do not even have basic math and physics to comprehend plausibility, let alone probability of the event. So, they are easily manipulated, or brainwashed and are ready to believe whatever satisfies their emotional needs. That is why it is called an era of the post-truth, because facts and expertise do not matter. You can see where this “scholarship” drove the United States to–just turn on the TV and “enjoy”. Cognitive dissonances could be hard for some to handle, hence personal unicorn historic fantasies.

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  335. Robjil says:
    @refl

    Ukraine 2014 was also the huge tidal wave wake up for me too. I think it was for many people who followed it outside the MSM track.

    Nuland used neo-Nazis to take over Ukraine for Zion wishes not US wishes. She obviously did not believe in the big 6. If she did she would greatly fear bringing neo-Nazism into a huge nation in Europe that supposedly “did” the Big 6 or “helped” it along.

    I know from experience that a lot Ukrainian descent people in the US had to hide their descent from Jews since most Jews thought so badly of Ukrainians for decades after WWII. Many Ukrainian descendants said that they were Polish or Russian to hide from Jewish Ukrainophobia.

    The 2014 Neo-Nazi coup has turned into a Zion Ukraine state. Ukraine now has Jewish president and Jewish Prime Minister. It is the only state outside Israel that has that. Suddenly, Jews all over the world love Ukraine over any US interests. Ukraine is not really loved by them either, it is just a new control center.

    This is so obviously now with Zion show impeachment trial with Zion Ukraine as a tool to get Zion US in line.

    All grandfathers were hoodwinked in WWI and WWII to fight for Zion and not for any western value at all.

    The Controversy of Zion by Douglas Reed names names of the Zionist Jewish Advisors who pushed WWI for the Balfour Declaration and WWII for Israel.

    WWIII for Seven Nations to Destroy from Deut. 7.1-2 for Eretz Israel, greater Israel, is the third and last war for Zion. If Zion “wins”, we all lose on planet Earth. Zion does not know how to compromise, it is endlessly in a fighting mood. In the End if this Zion mania goes on, since it never compromises, the world will end with two Jews left fighting each other on a blackened earth.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @refl
  336. PeterMX says:
    @anon

    No, I don’t think it is because Belarus also had people that welcomed the German army, just as Russians, Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians did too.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  337. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @refl

    why should I not see WWII as the mother of all regime changes…

    Wasn’t WWII the mother of all business/armaments deals, and regime change just collateral damage?

  338. @PeterMX

    Sure, every nation has its scum. Every occupation of one country by another revealed traitors who welcomed the occupiers. The majority of the populace hated and despised them. It is interesting that NKVD troops arrived into many Soviet cities liberated by the Red Army a day or two late, likely deliberately. Net result was always the same: traitors who did not manage to run away with the Germans were hanged by the locals on lampposts. Saved Soviet Union trouble and expense of putting that scum on trial.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
    , @refl
  339. wheuill get that gd pipeline through even if..” we” got 2 ascend mt. czech lo slavakea, ha,anyway, seriously ,think about it if you care/dare. The Gulf of (lets just call it Nebraska ok) to say the Baltic west of say ole Prussia aka ad naseum,,,(Sweden, Poland) to the majdgick kimgdoms of western middle north disney scandia lands way norse and nato hq vicinity, again say uhh auh #1 markets brrr where its actually kinda cold in dens and borg alike. Thats it, from #1 souerce push to #1 market demand pull market force (ka-ching) via say 1 or 2 roadhouses along the way or the scenic detour route, also most likely in states extreme, perpetual makeover, yes no, ?. Connect them dots and throw them bones, yes kno,,, maybe, I’d take that answer over the air if this imaginary telegram even gets, also alike,,, through ,o!o over ok

  340. PeterMX says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Priests and nuns that were murdered and raped by their government are not scum and neither were the millions of people deliberately murdered by their own government.

    Here is an article by a major Jewish newspaper reporting that the Ukrainian government was preparing an indictment list of the guilty “traitors” that murdered millions of Ukrainians. This was in 2009, no doubt a very different Ukrainian government than the Jewish ones running the country since the coup that was carried out with the help of American Jews like Victoria Nuland and their Israel First allies like John McCain.

    https://www.jta.org/2009/06/15/global/jewish-group-objects-to-great-famine-case

    Youtube has now also deleted a 1937 speech by Germany’s Josef Goebbels on the atrocities being carried out against millions of Ukrainians by their Jewish led government. The US was among the countries that covered up these atrocities, ignored what was going on and instead, created an atmosphere of lies (with the help of the US Jewish media) similar to what is in the USA today, instead demonizing the German government at a time when Germany, as is traditionaly the case, had very little crime, including against Jews. The little violence that did occur (not in a vacuum) was elevated to the degree by propaganda that many people believed the Germans were carrying out horrible atrocities against people, when it wasn’t the case.

    Just as today in regards to Trump, the power of the Jewsh media and the Jewish tendency to grossly lie and exaggerate so they can have their way was on full display. That is why leading Americans like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh criticized Jews, although Lindbergh’s criticism was very mild, merely pointing out they were among the leaders pushing the world towards war. This illustrates a point on a different subject. Only a few decades after arriving in the US in significant numbers, Jews had already eclipsed WASP and Catholic power in the USA when it was regarding something they were totally dedicated to. Russian Nobel Prize winner Solzhenitsyn described the atrocities of the Soviet government and that Jews were a major force in it, as so many other people pointed out.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  341. @anon

    FYI, that city has many names. It is Lemberg in German, Lwow in Polish, Lvov (Львов) in Russian (with the same pronunciation as Polish), Lviv (Львiв) in Ukrainian. But there is no language in which it is spelled Lvow.

    • Replies: @anon
  342. @PeterMX

    I will say just one thing: “Nobel Prize winner Solzhenitsyn” was a proven liar. Nobel peace prize winner Arafat was a proven terrorist. Nobel peace prize winner Obama is a war criminal. So much for Nobel prizes in areas that Nobel himself wisely did not include.

  343. @peterAUS

    For years I’ve been telling anyone who would listen that the Rothschilds are just holograms manipulated by shape-shifters from Venus. Because their planet is so hot they need to take over ours, which they have been patiently arranging to do. But you can hardly send a bunch of drones or thugs to Venus! The shape-shifters do not take kindly to being discussed, which is why whoever mentions them tends to be very sotto voce.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  344. refl says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Net result was always the same: traitors who did not manage to run away with the Germans were hanged by the locals on lampposts.

    If it was just that easy! You still have the scum of scum, who will provide that the witness to their deeds are hanged and then proudly show their achievement to the arriving secret police officers. These, upon learning the truth would bend the scum of scum into very willing colaborators. There are stories.

    But you are right: it would save the NKVD lots of time, getting rid of traitors without even lifting a finger and at the same time sorting out people who really had nervs.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  345. refl says:
    @Robjil

    It is already quite some years ago that I read my grandfathers diary, written while prisoner of war in Ukraine in 1946 (yes, he survived and even could keep a secret diary – he was a corporal at the end simply for having been a soldier from day one of the war through to the end, so certainly no special status).
    These people, being cut of from any proper information for years, thought that WWIII was about to start over Ukraine within weeks and that they would still get to fight the Americans.

    Upon reading this, my only idea was, what were they smoking?
    Think about these characters whatever you want, but they knew something that subsequently was lost. And I wonder what they would be thinking today.
    By the way, that man never recovered and was a disaster for his family. Walked into a river in the middle of winter at the age of 84.

  346. peterAUS says:
    @jack daniels

    Disagree.

    They are direct descendants of Anunaki living among us and ruling the world.
    Because they are capable of reading and manipulating human minds, plus teleporting and, true, shapeshifting, they are extremely hard to pinpoint.
    Good thing is, only true Aryans, after passing a special initiation in Wewelsburg, can see them.

    I have to stop, for now. My head is starting to hurt. Apologies.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  347. PeterMX says:
    @refl

    Those “locals” were partisans, not disinterested people going on about their business. It was their job to turn the often popular Germans (because the Jewish influenced gov’t brought so much death and misery to the population) into enemies by making the war as brutal as possible. This included partisan (not wearing uniforms) attacks on Germans in which the Germans would take revenge, including on innocents because they could not identify the perpetratrors, not because they just wanted to kill for the sake of killing – the moronic allied view of the Germans.

    • Replies: @refl
  348. refl says:
    @PeterMX

    the moronic allied view of the Germans.

    They certainly were not morons – that is the Hollywood view. Still, you should never put yourself into a situation that you cannot live up to.
    I can’t help it.

  349. Floda says:

    America is in Ukraine because Washington deep state swamp shysters know, as middlemen, they can syphon off vast sums confiscated from somnolent gently grazing tax paying sheeple.Think Hunter Biden writ, not just large, but Yuuuuge!

  350. PeterMX says:

    Solzhenitsyn’s “During the Civil War” — Chapter 16 of 200 Years Together

    The title of the book 200 Years Together that no English language publisher has translated for English speakers (which has been translated into many other languages, including German) refers to Jews and Russians coexistence in Russia.

    “Solzhenitsyn’s treatment once again hits all the right notes. While staying squarely within mainstream scholarship, he succeeds in laying bare the ethnic conflict that is at the heart of the fraught relationship of Jews and Europeans.” Dr.Kevin MacDonald

    An informational note from me. Solzhenitsyn’s wife was Jewish.

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2010/09/12/solzhenitsyns-during-the-civil-war-—-chapter-16-of-200-years-together/

  351. Ahoy says:

    @ PeterMX

    In your comment we read. “An informational note from me. Solzhenitsyn’s wife was Jewish”.

    On the assumption that you have a general interest on the Jewishness subject, here is an excellent book for you to read by Gerard Menuhin, a Jew. He is the son of the world reknown violinist Hehudi Menuhin.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27810799-tell-the-truth-shame-the-devil

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  352. PeterMX says:
    @Ahoy

    I’m familiar with him but I have never read his book. Yes, I know he does not believe the mainstream opinion on the holocaust. I think more people are coming to the same conclusion. Thanks. Maybe I will read it when I have more time.

  353. @peterAUS

    I hope you’re all right. Obviously they know when people are talking about them and respond accordingly. They won’t kill you outright but you’ll get a doozy of a headache from their “woo-woo” waves.

  354. peterAUS says:

    It’s sad, actually.

    Probably the only free speech online pub and is choke full of kooks.

    Somebody could even suspect there is a method in that madness around here. Something as an inside joke.

    The best way to scare, or simply disgust, people away from a topic is to have a couple of passionate kooks involved in a conversation.
    Neat trick.

  355. @peterAUS

    it was decision of sovereign countries to join NATO which some fascists deny to choose their policy. and as example with Ukrainian sovereignty treatises with Russia are toilet paper and they made the right choice. Ukraine luckily escaped being ruled by Donbass cartel in coalition with Communist party which started falsifying elections in Donbass style all over Ukraine and robbing all businesses big and small and jailing and beating and killing opposition basically slowly but surely turning democracy into bolshevik Maduro style tyranny.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  356. @AnonymousUkr

    Yea, sure. Now Ukraine is a blossoming democracy with remarkable freedom of speech. I am sure that Oles Buzina, murdered in broad daylight in Kiev in 2015, and the people of Odessa, burned alive in 2014, would agree wholeheartedly.

  357. alma says:
    @JVC

    America’s penchant for 21st century “Manifest Destiny” is too engrained to stop IMO. It matters little Who is at the helm here or Over There. ‘We only want to help’ we chant rather than the original Spreading Christianity. America is now occupying about 80 countries ostensibly to Protect them or so we say. How is this accompliesd U may ask? Easy: Quid Pro Quo or by its real name: Compromise. That’s how it’s been done since Hector was a pup.

    Apparently it matters little what political party is doing the administering…the objective is the same: total and complete rule by whatever name our political wordsmiths choose to use. Accommodating these actions is the Intel Communty with the CIA ias the primary mover & shaker.

  358. @Andrei Martyanov

    What do you think of the Soviet computer industry. Some Chinese source compared the first Soviet digital computer M-1 in 1950 with ENIAC that came out in 1946.

    专利申请于1948年底提交,1949年,拉梅耶夫应征入伍。布鲁克没有能手动操作电子仪器的人手,替代者很难找。他挑选了几十名高校毕业生和—名连中学都没毕业的天才——尤里·罗加乔夫。但专利是一回事,计算机是另一回事。科学院直到1950年4月才下达了制造计算机(名为M-1)的命令。M-1于当年12月开始运行,比基辅的MESM计算机早了10天。

    美国计算机的运行功率为174千瓦,苏联的仅为8千瓦,占地4平方米。与27吨的庞然大物相比,它就像个婴儿。M-1也是用磁鼓存储数据,但还有类似于内存的东西——就像电视机里是用的静电导管。这台计算机在当时堪称独一无二。 20世纪50年代,苏联出现了第一批量产电子计算机。它们被安装在科研、军事机构,用于数字通讯、天气预报和执行各种计算。布鲁克还建议用它们来控制发电站和其他复杂的工业设施。

    The US one was 174 thousand watts, the Soviet one only 8 thousand watts but US one was 5000 operations per second versus 20 operations per second of the Soviet one.

    Система счисления: двоичная, 25 разрядов в машинном слове.
    Быстродействие: 15—20 операций в секунду над 25-разрядными словами.
    Память: 256 слов на магнитном барабане («медленная» память), 256 слов на электростатических трубках («быстрая» память).
    Система команд: двухадресная.
    Элементная база: 730 электровакуумных ламп; немецкие купроксные выпрямители, полученные по репарациям.
    Потребляемая мощность: 8 кВт.
    Занимаемая площадь: 4 м².

    Вес — 30 тонн.
    Объём памяти — 20 число-слов.
    Потребляемая мощность — 174 кВт.
    Вычислительная мощность — 357 операций умножения или 5000 операций сложения в секунду.
    Тактовая частота — 100 кГц, то есть один импульс каждые 10 микросекунд. Основной вычислительный такт состоял из 20 импульсов и занимал 200 микросекунд. Сложение выполнялось за 1 такт, умножение — за 14 тактов (умножение заменялось многократным сложением, так что 1 умножение равнялось 14 операциям сложения и выполнялось, таким образом, за 2800 микросекунд).
    Устройство ввода-вывода данных — табулятор перфокарт компании IBM: 125 карт/минуту на ввод, 100 карт/минуту на вывод[11].

    Didn’t the Soviets also perform the first test of an actually deployable hydrogen bomb? Americans tested the first hydrogen bomb but it was too heavy to use in combat.

    I am asking because people in China are telling me that China’s microelectronics was really only like 5 years behind US in the 1970s. But the reformist policies ruined that and produced PC assembly shops like Lenovo.

    That Chinese source also mentioned how buying computer technology from the West instead of developing their own from Brezhnev on resulted in similar in the USSR. But I do know of Zelenograd and Micron. That stuff belongs to Rostec now, doesn’t it? By the way, China also makes its own CPUs, from design to fab, ever heard of Loongson?

    Also, Cyrillic transliteration system for Chinese characters is actually more efficient than pinyin, 1255 characters vs 1318 characters when counting the different Chinese pronunciation units (excluding tone). Does Russia have some Cyrillic based computer system?

  359. “Why Are We in Ukraine?”

    Profit, paranoia, power-lust, pretend patriotism, petroleum, politics…

    And that’s just the letter ‘P’.

  360. Che Guava says:
    @Alfred

    Thank you, it made me laugh.

  361. Madcap Laughs [AKA "Madcap Laughs"] says:

    Because the spoiled entitled children of commiecrats need an easy money cookie jar and a back door into the domain of the *evil* PutinHitlerSatan.

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