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Racial Quotas, Harvard, and the Legacy of Bakke
Have three decades of Supreme Court support for affirmative action been based on fraud?
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MeritocracyFor almost 35 years, college-admissions decisions in America have been governed by the continuing legacy of University of California v. Bakke, in which a fragmented U.S. Supreme Court struck down the use of racial quotas but affirmed the legitimacy of considering race as one factor among several. The justices are now revisiting these crucial national issues in the pending Fisher v. University of Texas decision.

According to many observers, a crucial factor in the original 1978 ruling may have been the amicus brief filed by Harvard University. America’s oldest and most prestigious academic institution emphasized that its “holistic” admissions process allowed for the creation of a racially diversified student body while avoiding any “quota system.” In fact, Justice Lewis Powell’s majority opinion cited Harvard’s approach as exemplary, suggesting it demonstrated that well-intentioned and determined university administrators could achieve ethnic diversity without using quotas.

In the decades that followed, Harvard and its Ivy League allies redoubled their public advocacy of racial diversity via holistic admissions. When California’s Proposition 209 propelled the affirmative-action debate back onto the national stage during the 1990s, Derek Bok and William Bowen, former presidents of Harvard and Princeton respectively, published The Shape of the River, a weighty and influential volume that made the case for achieving academic racial diversity using the non-quota Ivy League methods already endorsed by the high court. Over the years, advocacy of “a holistic admissions system” as practiced by Harvard has become a favored mantra among diversity advocates in higher education.

But what if all these claims were simply fraudulent?

I recently published a lengthy article analyzing the admissions policies of America’s Ivy League universities; one of my main points was that these policies coincide with a very suspicious pattern of Asian-American enrollments.

Over the last 20 years, America’s population of college-age Asian-Americans has roughly doubled; but during this same period, the number admitted to Harvard and most other Ivy League schools has held steady or even declined, despite significant improvement in Asian academic performance. Furthermore, the Asian percentages at all Ivy League schools have recently converged to a very narrow range and remained static over time, which seems quite suspicious.

Meanwhile, the Californian Institute of Technology (Caltech) follows a highly selective but strictly race-neutral admissions policy, and its enrollment of Asian Americans has grown almost exactly in line with the growth of the Asian-American population.

The stark difference between these two admissions policies is evident in this graph of comparative enrollment:

Top officials at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton today strenuously deny the existence of Asian-American quotas, but their predecessors had similarly denied the existence of Jewish quotas in the 1920s, now universally acknowledged to have existed. In fact, the large growth in the Asian-American population means that the fraction attending Harvard has fallen by more than 50 percent since the early 1990s, a decline considerably greater than the decline Jews experienced after the implementation of secret quotas in 1925.

Based on these officially reported enrollment statistics, the evidence of Ivy League racial quotas seems overwhelming to many outside observers. The liberal New York Times recently ran a forum on the topic, and a large majority of its commenters were scathing in their criticism of the Harvard public-relations officer who defended his university’s position.

ORDER IT NOW

S.B. Woo, founding president of 80-20, a national Asian-American advocacy organization that strongly supported President Obama’s reelection, participated in the New York Times forum, entitling his contribution “Discrimination Is Obvious.” He argued that “the credibility of elite colleges suffers” when they deny the clear evidence that they “set a quota for Asian students,” and he claimed that “America’s core value of equal opportunity is being trampled.” Liberal and left-wing pundits from publications such as The Atlantic and The Washington Monthly have similarly ridiculed Harvard’s blatant dishonesty in the matter.

Suppose we accept the overwhelming statistical evidence that the admissions offices of Harvard and other Ivy League schools have been quietly following an illegal Asian-American quota system for at least the last couple of decades. During this same period, presidents of these institutions have publicly touted their “non-quota” approach to racial admissions problems, while their top lawyers have filed important amicus briefs making similar legal claims, most recently in the 2012 Fisher case. But if none of these individuals ever noticed that illegal quota activity was occurring under their very noses, how can their opinions carry much weight before either the public or the high court?

If the “Harvard Holistic Model” has actually amounted to racial quotas in disguise, then a central pillar of the modern legal foundation of affirmative action in college admissions going back to Bakke may have been based on fraud. Perhaps the justices of the Supreme Court should take these facts into consideration as they formulate their current ruling in the Fisher case.

Ron Unz is publisher of The American Conservative .

(Republished from National Review by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: HotNews, Meritocracy 
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  1. Token says:

    It is a pity that the article linked (The myth of American meritocracy) is not discussed in full. The article raises other important issues, such as the discrimination of white Christians at the Ivy League, which is, as shown by statistics therein, actually more severe than that of Asians. People in the US would benefit from giving consideration to what happened to the prospect of the middle and working classes in the last few decades, and what role elitist insitutions like the Ivy League played in bringing the current state of affairs about (I actually was at two of those institutions, so none of what was written surprised me in any way).

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  2. It is not relevant that during this time there were Jewish presidents at 6 of the 8 Ivy League schools during the last 15 years? The most wildly disproportionate differences between the general population and the student body and faculty of such institutions must be related to Jewish vs Gentiles. This is where the race issue is most revealing in America, this is where the difference between reality and what is admitted publicly is most extreme. Once one reaches Israel, race is everything, “what was the ethnicity of your mother, was she a Jew?” This everything in Jerusalem, but when Americans are counted at the census, “Jewish” is not a racial category. American Jews stop that category from being treated as a race in America, so it is never counted. Americans would be most curious to see posted how the net worth of Gentiles in American has fared during the past decade compared to h0w the new worth of American Jews has changed, but they will never be allowed to make the comparison.

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    • Replies: @m___
    On principle, numbers lie better then words, by merely omitting a category of interest. If all parties keep playing false, no quantifying is possible. When anticipating the issue, it would have been impossible indeed to add a line concerning ethnic Jews since in the US they are not a category.

    This tactic is a favorite indeed. Whether Ron Unz should have mentioned at least the larger context to which the same approach should reflect, yes probably. And Gentiles, and Jews in the same bag, is little sorting to allow a label on the outside. A follow up article if any numbers can be hardened on the Jewish admissions realized would be appropriate. If not the issue should be denounced and attended to. It all would make for an approach to longer term better policies.

    Your comment begs being annexed to the article.

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  3. David says:

    I would recommend “Diversity” by Peter Wood and “Getting Under the Skin of Diversity” by Larry Purdy for much more detailed critiques of Bakke and The Shape of the River.

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  4. I think the problems caused by the legacy of slavery (and the 100 years thereafter when black people were probably even worse off than when they were slaves), which the USA only began to address about 50 years ago, needs to begin much earlier than university. Attending university, but being unprepared to do so, is only setting people up for failure. The attempt to remedy the clearly unconstitutional treatment of black people in the USA from 1865 until 1965 need to begin early, and continue right through till the end of university. So yes, quotas to get into university were a bad idea. The black students should have been better prepared so that they could earn their way into university, and do well once they are there. But make no mistake, a great injustice was done to them, and until that injustice has been remedied it will be a blot on America’s record.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    How do you propose remedying the injustice of the average Black being born with an IQ that's 10 to 20 points below that of the average White?
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  5. National Reveiw would not permit the mention of the massive discrimination of non-jewish whites for obvious reasons.As Mr Unz demonstrated in his earlier work if the distribution of top performing high school seniors on the Nation Merit test is 65-70% non-jewish white,25-30% asain and 6% jewish but the students at the elite ivy schools are 20% non-jewish whites,20% asain and 25% jewish then something is very wrong.As Mr Unz has pointed out in earlier works the leadership that our national elites, over the last few decades, has resulted in the dramatic decline in the economic performance, foreign policy and culture in the United States.Surely this intersection of how we choose our elites and how our country is performing is related.This is where The American Conservative can make a major contribution to the national discussion.

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  6. I originally a legnthy response to your initila post on this matter. I am a lousy writer so I understand why it was never posted, unfortunately, it’s one of those long posts I didn’t copy. But I have followed the articles and the responses and my position is the same now as then and perhaps, more succinct.

    The quota systems designed by universities across the country were in response to AA and their desire to avoid complying with it’s mandate, if they were in fact guilty of discriminatory practices over their historical existence. They were and they are. By avoiding the AA mandate they have insulated themselves from actually addressing the AA policy by and large designed to deal with the history of employment, education, housing practices as to two populations: Native Americans and blacks and women (to a lesser extent) who experienced structural barriers based on benign traits. And an adherence to the imperfect AA policy would have created something quite unique and deeper in impact, than what we have now.

    The women and asian moves were designed to avoid those tough questions of academic practice supported by an institutions regulations and practices against those two populations. Now I don’t want to rehash the matter of first post. And I do find this issue and its progression interesting.

    But the matter remains, in my view, disingenuous amongst the academic community. What seems clear is that AA remains a policy lost in some intellectual limbo of hide and seek, perhaps never to be found.

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  7. Mike says:

    The racism and bigotry you demonstrate in the enrollment practices of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Columbia (etc.) are a national disgrace.

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  8. Brooks says:

    While this does demonstrate a disgraceful and definitely existing tactic, it may well not be as bad as the graph indicates. In particular, this data does not take into account that Asian Americans are very disproportionately located on the west coast of the U.S., and the Ivy League universities are all on the east coast. Most college students tend to stay on the same coast as they grew up on. So, while Ivy League Asian admissions have stagnated, the growth in Ivy League Asian /applications/ is probably not the same as the national Asian population growth.

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  9. Token says:

    Some interesting quotes from the original article:

    “Based on reported statistics, Jews approximately match or even outnumber non-Jewish whites at Harvard and most of the other Ivy League schools, which seems wildly disproportionate. Indeed, the official statistics indicate that non-Jewish whites at Harvard are America’s most under-represented population group, enrolled at a much lower fraction of their national population than blacks or Hispanics, despite having far higher academic test scores.”

    “…if we separate out the Jewish students, their ratio turns out to be 435 percent, while the residual ratio for non-Jewish whites drops to just 28 percent, less than half of even the Asian figure. As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.”

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    • Replies: @lavoisier

    As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.”
     
    This really is the take home message of the important article by Ron Unz. But instead the focus is on the poor Asians.

    Yes, the Asians are being discriminated against. But NOT as MUCH as white Christians.

    And who is being favored by the discrimination?

    Yes, Blacks and Hispanics. But so are the Jews.

    You are unlikely to get that part of the story line from the MSM.
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  10. I will that any of these complaints from Baake forward make no sense.

    In all of the applications, how would it possible to determine that your application was blocked by someone as the result of the quota system. There is absolutely no way to gurantee acceptance even if the standard did not exist.

    How would one know that said quota was the block?
    In addition, reversing the claim kills the contention. Since existence Harvard’s and other universities (nearly across the board) they actively denied access to or simply dismissed an entire segment of the population, in violation of the US Constitutional gurantees. They also sought to maintain said practices denying certain populations. The current measures adopted now are a redress and as such act as payment for a history of destructive practices.

    Though they have strayed far and wide, AA served as form of civil suit against institutions. Knowing that they were in fact, guilty, they sought redress. Such redress is bound withdraw some of what avaikable as priviledge to the populations served. A justified claim, isn’t dismissed because the responsible party’s children will have less in redressing a past due bill. That is just the price. Baake, if suffered ill is not suffered by the recipients of the redress, but by the wrong doing which benefitted him and others like or her previously.

    When I was a kid, if you got caught cutting in line. You may spend the next week, at the end of the line. That’s the price of cheating. The argument Baaake and similar compainants are making is similar to a company having cheated thereby by undercutting, unfairly the opportunity of others. In the redress, that company will lose something. The argument, “That’s it not fair,” isn’t applicable, the redress and the loss is the price of cheating.
    The fault lies not with the claimant, in this case the AA applicants or quota applicants. The fault lies, in The Constitution, regulations, and practices that unfairly benefitted a certain segment while actively cutting out others — Hence the price.

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  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Should more Asians have been admitted because of an increase in the Asian proportion of the US population ?
    If the answer is ”yes” then you are suggesting that admissions should be related to the proportion an ethnic group represents in the population. If you accept this principle then you must admit that there is a severe adverse quota on non Jewish whites which is far more significant than any bias against Asians.

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  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It’s readily apparent in our society that it is a-ok to discriminate certain races, religious groups, lifestyles, etc., but an absolute no-no to discriminate others. We are very selective in which races/groups we decided to defend, and which we decided to discriminate against, and minority status is not the determining factor, as much as political influence. There is clearly a double standard, which is very apparent in the college admission quotas that weigh very strongly against Asian-Americans applying to these top-tier universities.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    I agree. Discrimination against Caucasians is not only legal but highly encouraged.
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  13. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:

    Well just do the math, there are 4 billion Asians in the world, 2.6 billion just between India and China. There are 320 million of us. With a de facto open borders immigration policy, how long before our elite colleges are completely overwhelmed by Asians?

    Meanwhile, the powers that be understood that whoever controls Harvard controls the country, as Harvard grads dominate the upper echelon of politics, deep state, SCOTUS, Wall Street, business, the judiciary, academia, media and Silicon Valley, wielding disproportionate influence in every institution of import in the country. What Harvard does, all other universities follow. The same people who control all the above institutions took over from the WASPs by taking over Harvard, they have suffered 2,000 years of oppression (in their minds) to get to the top, and are not about to make the same fatal mistake as the WASPs.

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  14. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:

    True to their far left ideals, the NYT “debate” included an argument from an self-loathing Kool-Aid drinking Asian woman denying the existence of a quota, a hispanic former admissions officer and a Jewish current admissions officer defending holistic admissions and eschewing “narrow criteria” of test scores, plus a black+Jewish pair blaming it all on “white” legacy admits. Only 2 out of 6 debaters argued that discrimination occurs, Ron Unz and Mr. Woo.

    The hypocrisy and moral depravity of the left is what’s really killing this country.

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  15. m___ says:
    @Charles Luke
    It is not relevant that during this time there were Jewish presidents at 6 of the 8 Ivy League schools during the last 15 years? The most wildly disproportionate differences between the general population and the student body and faculty of such institutions must be related to Jewish vs Gentiles. This is where the race issue is most revealing in America, this is where the difference between reality and what is admitted publicly is most extreme. Once one reaches Israel, race is everything, "what was the ethnicity of your mother, was she a Jew?" This everything in Jerusalem, but when Americans are counted at the census, "Jewish" is not a racial category. American Jews stop that category from being treated as a race in America, so it is never counted. Americans would be most curious to see posted how the net worth of Gentiles in American has fared during the past decade compared to h0w the new worth of American Jews has changed, but they will never be allowed to make the comparison.

    On principle, numbers lie better then words, by merely omitting a category of interest. If all parties keep playing false, no quantifying is possible. When anticipating the issue, it would have been impossible indeed to add a line concerning ethnic Jews since in the US they are not a category.

    This tactic is a favorite indeed. Whether Ron Unz should have mentioned at least the larger context to which the same approach should reflect, yes probably. And Gentiles, and Jews in the same bag, is little sorting to allow a label on the outside. A follow up article if any numbers can be hardened on the Jewish admissions realized would be appropriate. If not the issue should be denounced and attended to. It all would make for an approach to longer term better policies.

    Your comment begs being annexed to the article.

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  16. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:

    The trouble with Harvard’s argument that they do not rely on “narrow criteria” of test scores and grades is, they do not apply the same argument across all groups. An Asian or white kid who gets a perfect 1600 on the SAT is often tossed aside as “well test-prepped” due to privileged upbringing, even if they are poor, while a black or hispanic who gets even just a 1520 is immediately hailed as a genius who triumphed in spite of under privileged circumstance, even if they are rich or upper middle class, and accepted without fail. I suspect this is why the Asian group that is suing them who got a chance to review the applications said that the bias is so obvious they don’t even need to go to court.

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  17. myself says:

    There will probably come a time, if it is not already upon us, during which the perceived prestige and even objective quality of instruction in America’s elite colleges will be publicly and widely called into question.

    These institutions seem to have long ago lost their neutrality and integrity, and that integrity was the very basis of their prestige and social-economic significance.

    Once integrity is lost, as for example in the case of the”mainstrean media”, the broad public will shun these schools, and employers will distrust diplomas issued in them. Lose integrity, lose appeal – simple as that.

    Institutional reputations are almost impossible to regain. Even foreign students, the source of much profit for the elite colleges, would shun them. Word gets around quickly, even internationally.

    When the perceptions of the elite schools take a turn for the worse, I wonder how the curators and academics who work in them, not to mention their alumni, will react?

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    • Replies: @anon
    Well said. Unfortunately as long as our media continues to be controlled by the left, who only recruit new journalists from these elite schools, they will never go out of style. It's a self-perpetuating cycle. Most Asian students (both US and foreign) are sheep. As long as the media continues to tout these schools as America's elite, they'll clamor over one another to get in.

    In truth the academic quality of these schools have gone down substantially for some time. The average grade at Harvard is an A- and 90% graduate with honors each year. Harvard continues to lower their STEM curriculum esp. Physics and Engineering classes so the women and minorities can pass these classes. These schools basically bought their prestige by paying for the most well known professors, many of whom did not go to these schools, esp. the STEM professors.

    The Asian and unhooked middle class white kids who got in with high SAT scores are the ones doing any real learning in these schools. All others - the legacy admits, athletes, development and AA beneficiaries are all there to get their diplomas rubber stamped, so they can go on to prestigious careers in politics, journalism, law and business through the alumni network who only recruit from their alma-maters to perpetuate the elitism. This inbred circle and group think is why our politics, msm and many corporations are so poorly run.

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  18. Thomm says:

    What about Stanford? It is more analogous to Harvard and Yale than Caltech is, but is far less able to get away with not admitting as many Asians as academically qualify.

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  19. Peter Thiel identified the real economic character of Harvard construed as a product.

    Investment good?
    Consumption good?
    Superpose both?

    No.

    It’s an insurance product, based on fear. Insurance is a poor investment, but still purchased.

    It’s a tournament product – the opposite of insurance, driven by exclusion.

    That is, any other successful market product which is either an investment or a consumption good expands within it’s market.

    Given the high demand for Harvard, were Harvard education a non-tournament product you would see a major increase in admissions, even at current price points.

    You don’t see that. Because the value of Harvard derives from it’s exclusivity.

    Havard isn’t an investment/consumption good. It’s an insurance/tournament good – and the exclusive night club is owned and guarded by the most protected attribute group of all. The schizophrenic nature of Harvard’s economic character perfectly reflects the supreme neuroticism of it’s occupiers. Oh I do so love reading Noel Ignatiev.

    But they’ve met their match in the Chinese. Equally impecunious, vocarious, unscrupulous, xenophobic and ethnocentric but vastly more multitudinous and not inter-changeable this time, on any dimension. They will smash the meritless usurpers into tiny pieces via wave after wave after wave. How unfortunate Harvard is still subject, for now, to a supposedly ‘universal’ rule of law.

    I am still extremely angry that I wasn’t admitted despite being sufficiently credentialled. I salute our brothers bearing the Heavenly Mandate.

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    • Replies: @myself

    and not inter-changeable this time, on any dimension.
     
    Save, perhaps, in the matter of intellect.

    By which I mean that when the Ivy League gatekeepers find that their intelligence is rendered commonplace among a new alien people, how exclusive will their club be than?

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  20. Too much emphasis on IQ has brought about our present condition in which Hindus and East Asians are elevated to positions of influence in America for which they are not suited. As John Calhoun’s behavioral sink experiments with rats showed, a society in which there is no physical striving for limited resources and no physical competition to activate hormones that masculinize males, such a stress-free society, will paradoxically, ultimately, when allowed to run its course, die out due to lack of sexual interest by males.

    Today, with the gatekeeper role of admission to Ivy League colleges determined heavily by scoring on standardized tests, striving has been sublimated from the physical into the purely mental. Those admitted are disembodied intellects. They are neuters, dorkwad nerds i.e. East Asians and Hindus.

    The healthy, balanced, physically imposing yet mentally competent males are left out. Not attaining the highest positions of power and influence, the fittest are not breeding at replacement levels.

    Exclusive emphasis on IQ and g is suicide for any society. Physically imposing strength counts equally in a healthy male. The death of Athens, Rome and now us is due to the ascendence of a feminized crop of disembodied young males to positions of power.

    Early Greek and Roman civil life extolled the necessity of balance in personality traits. Both Aristotle and Plato emphasized training the body with gymnastics, wrestling and music. Later Empires of Athens and Rome saw the rise of self-centered dandies and fops to top positions in politics. There were not men cast in the heroic mold of Socrates or Pericles who were soldiers as well as philosophers and statesmen.

    Till the end of WW2, America admired and promoted the blend of good traits that characterized an integrated man of power. Now we have been sold a bill of goods by promoters of exclusively cerebral traits and are suffering the consequences. Not more brains, but more balls are needed. That the neutered Dorks have no interest in defending their own territory or fighting for hot babes is evidence that something is amiss.

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  21. @Sean Gillhoolley
    I think the problems caused by the legacy of slavery (and the 100 years thereafter when black people were probably even worse off than when they were slaves), which the USA only began to address about 50 years ago, needs to begin much earlier than university. Attending university, but being unprepared to do so, is only setting people up for failure. The attempt to remedy the clearly unconstitutional treatment of black people in the USA from 1865 until 1965 need to begin early, and continue right through till the end of university. So yes, quotas to get into university were a bad idea. The black students should have been better prepared so that they could earn their way into university, and do well once they are there. But make no mistake, a great injustice was done to them, and until that injustice has been remedied it will be a blot on America's record.

    How do you propose remedying the injustice of the average Black being born with an IQ that’s 10 to 20 points below that of the average White?

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  22. @Anonymous
    It's readily apparent in our society that it is a-ok to discriminate certain races, religious groups, lifestyles, etc., but an absolute no-no to discriminate others. We are very selective in which races/groups we decided to defend, and which we decided to discriminate against, and minority status is not the determining factor, as much as political influence. There is clearly a double standard, which is very apparent in the college admission quotas that weigh very strongly against Asian-Americans applying to these top-tier universities.

    I agree. Discrimination against Caucasians is not only legal but highly encouraged.

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  23. Perhaps the racial quota controversy exist primarily to divert attention away from the fact that the Ivy League schools mentioned in this article serve primarily as training and indoctrination centers for Marxist agitators.

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  24. myself says:
    @Firstintimesavescatonine
    Peter Thiel identified the real economic character of Harvard construed as a product.

    Investment good?
    Consumption good?
    Superpose both?

    No.

    It's an insurance product, based on fear. Insurance is a poor investment, but still purchased.

    It's a tournament product - the opposite of insurance, driven by exclusion.

    That is, any other successful market product which is either an investment or a consumption good expands within it's market.

    Given the high demand for Harvard, were Harvard education a non-tournament product you would see a major increase in admissions, even at current price points.

    You don't see that. Because the value of Harvard derives from it's exclusivity.

    Havard isn't an investment/consumption good. It's an insurance/tournament good - and the exclusive night club is owned and guarded by the most protected attribute group of all. The schizophrenic nature of Harvard's economic character perfectly reflects the supreme neuroticism of it's occupiers. Oh I do so love reading Noel Ignatiev.

    But they've met their match in the Chinese. Equally impecunious, vocarious, unscrupulous, xenophobic and ethnocentric but vastly more multitudinous and not inter-changeable this time, on any dimension. They will smash the meritless usurpers into tiny pieces via wave after wave after wave. How unfortunate Harvard is still subject, for now, to a supposedly 'universal' rule of law.

    I am still extremely angry that I wasn't admitted despite being sufficiently credentialled. I salute our brothers bearing the Heavenly Mandate.

    and not inter-changeable this time, on any dimension.

    Save, perhaps, in the matter of intellect.

    By which I mean that when the Ivy League gatekeepers find that their intelligence is rendered commonplace among a new alien people, how exclusive will their club be than?

    Read More
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  25. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Token
    Some interesting quotes from the original article:

    "Based on reported statistics, Jews approximately match or even outnumber non-Jewish whites at Harvard and most of the other Ivy League schools, which seems wildly disproportionate. Indeed, the official statistics indicate that non-Jewish whites at Harvard are America’s most under-represented population group, enrolled at a much lower fraction of their national population than blacks or Hispanics, despite having far higher academic test scores."

    "...if we separate out the Jewish students, their ratio turns out to be 435 percent, while the residual ratio for non-Jewish whites drops to just 28 percent, less than half of even the Asian figure. As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students."

    As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.”

    This really is the take home message of the important article by Ron Unz. But instead the focus is on the poor Asians.

    Yes, the Asians are being discriminated against. But NOT as MUCH as white Christians.

    And who is being favored by the discrimination?

    Yes, Blacks and Hispanics. But so are the Jews.

    You are unlikely to get that part of the story line from the MSM.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    A truly meritocratic admission at Harvard will probably result in <1% black, <3% hispanic, <10% Jew, 40% Asian, 46% white gentile. It'll also be more likely 70-30 male-female.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. hyperbola says:

    Harvard has become such a cesspool of corruption by a racist-supremacist sect that it should NEVER be accepted as a model for anything in America.

    Why Larry Summers lost the presidency of Harvard | mathbabe

    https://mathbabe.org/2012/03/11/why-larry-summers-lost-the-presidency-of-harvard/

    Russia – the biggest robbery of the twentieth century

    https://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?t=20332

    Jews sans frontieres: Alan Dershowitz: plagiarist, liar and racist

    http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com.es/2006/05/alan-dershowitz-plagiarist-liar-and.html

    Big Oil’s Tree Huggers
    Harvard’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs

    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com.es/2011/02/big-oils-tree-huggers.html

    How corrupt is the Harvard Economics department, anyway? (And why are we philosophers so quiet?)

    http://www.newappsblog.com/2011/03/how-corrupt-is-the-harvard-economics-department-anyway-and-why-are-we-philosophers-so-quiet.html

    Ken Rogoff Loses It, Calls Criticism of Errors in Debt Paper a “Witch Hunt”

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/10/ken-rogoff-loses-it-calls-criticism-of-errors-in-debt-paper-a-witch-hunt.html

    The Curse Of Ken Rogoff—–The War On Cash Is A Prelude To Government Default And Wealth Seizure

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-curse-of-ken-rogoff-the-war-on-cash-is-a-prelude-to-government-default-and-wealth-seizure/

    Marty Peretz’s emptiness and the corruption of Harvard

    https://louisproyect.org/2010/09/21/marty-peretzs-emptiness-and-the-corruption-of-harvard/

    Harvard has named a professorship for Marty Peretz in Yiddish studies and proposes to honor him at a 50th anniversary of the Social Studies program this coming Saturday. 4 undergraduates have sent a pointed letter below, featuring three racist citations form Marty about Muslims, blacks and Chicanoes. That there is such a letter is a true and sad comment on Marty’s career, despite the largely purchased honors, and a deep one about Harvard. …

    Psychoprostitution

    https://www.citizen.org/our-work/health-and-safety/psychoprostitution

    Dr. Joseph Biederman, a Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, has taken the pharmaceutical company corruption of psychiatry to new depths…..

    https://www.citizen.org/our-work/health-and-safety/psychoprostitution

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    That's because Harvard's been taken over by Jews. Anything the Jews get their hands on, they are sure to run it to the ground, out of sheer greed, dishonesty and lack of self-restraint, examples abound: msm, academia, Hollywood, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Deep State, Law, and increasingly, medicine.
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  27. JimB says:

    This is much ado about nothing. And comparing Harvard to CalTech is tendentious. CalTech is training scientists and engineers, only. Harvard is a liberal arts school looking for students excelling across a wide range of fields in both STEM and the humanities. They are also looking to admit future civic leaders. Asians are crowding almost exclusively into biochem, computers, and material science, even when they declare themselves humanities majors in the undergraduate application process. So they are at best only a half match to Harvard but a full match to CalTech. Another thing Harvard is fully aware of — Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college. Only grades matter when it comes to the next step in their career: getting into a prestigious medical school or engineering program. It’s almost like their whole life and persona in high school, including 10,000 hours of violin practice and 2000 hours of community service, is a put-on to get past the Harvard admissions committee.

    Read More
    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @PseudoIntellectual
    You're the real expert on Asian college admissions stats and strategies, aren't you?

    You'd be more believable if you stayed away from stereotypes and tried to actually argue facts.

    Let's start with this. Harvard's own internal data and analysis, which it sat on without further study or action, showed that Asian-American applicants consistently outperformed all other demographics, including whites, on grades, standardized tests, alumni interview scores and extracurriculars.

    Continue your bloviation in this comment section if you wish (it's a free speech free fire zone here afterall) but let's see you contend with those facts.

    And then there's this comment from you: "Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college." Not even Harvard attempts to muster data to support this assertion. Can you? Didn't think so.

    , @anon
    There is certainly that stereotype of Asians being mostly interested in only pre-med or economics for a career on Wall Street. It's probably why Asians as a group are the highest paid graduates out of Harvard. Perhaps Harvard should consider getting rid of their undergrad Biology, Economics and Engineering departments, that would reduce their Asian applicants by at least 50%.
    , @Clyde
    Sounds true to me. Thanks!
    , @Hibernian
    "including 10,000 hours of violin practice and 2000 hours of community service"

    Stereotype much?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  28. anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @myself
    There will probably come a time, if it is not already upon us, during which the perceived prestige and even objective quality of instruction in America's elite colleges will be publicly and widely called into question.

    These institutions seem to have long ago lost their neutrality and integrity, and that integrity was the very basis of their prestige and social-economic significance.

    Once integrity is lost, as for example in the case of the"mainstrean media", the broad public will shun these schools, and employers will distrust diplomas issued in them. Lose integrity, lose appeal - simple as that.

    Institutional reputations are almost impossible to regain. Even foreign students, the source of much profit for the elite colleges, would shun them. Word gets around quickly, even internationally.

    When the perceptions of the elite schools take a turn for the worse, I wonder how the curators and academics who work in them, not to mention their alumni, will react?

    Well said. Unfortunately as long as our media continues to be controlled by the left, who only recruit new journalists from these elite schools, they will never go out of style. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle. Most Asian students (both US and foreign) are sheep. As long as the media continues to tout these schools as America’s elite, they’ll clamor over one another to get in.

    In truth the academic quality of these schools have gone down substantially for some time. The average grade at Harvard is an A- and 90% graduate with honors each year. Harvard continues to lower their STEM curriculum esp. Physics and Engineering classes so the women and minorities can pass these classes. These schools basically bought their prestige by paying for the most well known professors, many of whom did not go to these schools, esp. the STEM professors.

    The Asian and unhooked middle class white kids who got in with high SAT scores are the ones doing any real learning in these schools. All others – the legacy admits, athletes, development and AA beneficiaries are all there to get their diplomas rubber stamped, so they can go on to prestigious careers in politics, journalism, law and business through the alumni network who only recruit from their alma-maters to perpetuate the elitism. This inbred circle and group think is why our politics, msm and many corporations are so poorly run.

    Read More
    • Agree: anarchyst
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. @JimB
    This is much ado about nothing. And comparing Harvard to CalTech is tendentious. CalTech is training scientists and engineers, only. Harvard is a liberal arts school looking for students excelling across a wide range of fields in both STEM and the humanities. They are also looking to admit future civic leaders. Asians are crowding almost exclusively into biochem, computers, and material science, even when they declare themselves humanities majors in the undergraduate application process. So they are at best only a half match to Harvard but a full match to CalTech. Another thing Harvard is fully aware of -- Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college. Only grades matter when it comes to the next step in their career: getting into a prestigious medical school or engineering program. It's almost like their whole life and persona in high school, including 10,000 hours of violin practice and 2000 hours of community service, is a put-on to get past the Harvard admissions committee.

    You’re the real expert on Asian college admissions stats and strategies, aren’t you?

    You’d be more believable if you stayed away from stereotypes and tried to actually argue facts.

    Let’s start with this. Harvard’s own internal data and analysis, which it sat on without further study or action, showed that Asian-American applicants consistently outperformed all other demographics, including whites, on grades, standardized tests, alumni interview scores and extracurriculars.

    Continue your bloviation in this comment section if you wish (it’s a free speech free fire zone here afterall) but let’s see you contend with those facts.

    And then there’s this comment from you: “Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college.” Not even Harvard attempts to muster data to support this assertion. Can you? Didn’t think so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    You are the king of non-sequiturs.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimB
    This is much ado about nothing. And comparing Harvard to CalTech is tendentious. CalTech is training scientists and engineers, only. Harvard is a liberal arts school looking for students excelling across a wide range of fields in both STEM and the humanities. They are also looking to admit future civic leaders. Asians are crowding almost exclusively into biochem, computers, and material science, even when they declare themselves humanities majors in the undergraduate application process. So they are at best only a half match to Harvard but a full match to CalTech. Another thing Harvard is fully aware of -- Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college. Only grades matter when it comes to the next step in their career: getting into a prestigious medical school or engineering program. It's almost like their whole life and persona in high school, including 10,000 hours of violin practice and 2000 hours of community service, is a put-on to get past the Harvard admissions committee.

    There is certainly that stereotype of Asians being mostly interested in only pre-med or economics for a career on Wall Street. It’s probably why Asians as a group are the highest paid graduates out of Harvard. Perhaps Harvard should consider getting rid of their undergrad Biology, Economics and Engineering departments, that would reduce their Asian applicants by at least 50%.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    And as we all know from Gaussian statistics, stereotypes are about 67% true.
    , @Hibernian
    Yea, sure, abolish the programs that the "wrong" people are interested in. Maybe a little illiberal for a liberal arts university.
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  31. anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @hyperbola
    Harvard has become such a cesspool of corruption by a racist-supremacist sect that it should NEVER be accepted as a model for anything in America.

    Why Larry Summers lost the presidency of Harvard | mathbabe
    https://mathbabe.org/2012/03/11/why-larry-summers-lost-the-presidency-of-harvard/

    Russia - the biggest robbery of the twentieth century
    https://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?t=20332

    Jews sans frontieres: Alan Dershowitz: plagiarist, liar and racist
    http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com.es/2006/05/alan-dershowitz-plagiarist-liar-and.html

    Big Oil's Tree Huggers
    Harvard's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs
    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com.es/2011/02/big-oils-tree-huggers.html

    How corrupt is the Harvard Economics department, anyway? (And why are we philosophers so quiet?)
    http://www.newappsblog.com/2011/03/how-corrupt-is-the-harvard-economics-department-anyway-and-why-are-we-philosophers-so-quiet.html

    Ken Rogoff Loses It, Calls Criticism of Errors in Debt Paper a “Witch Hunt”
    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/10/ken-rogoff-loses-it-calls-criticism-of-errors-in-debt-paper-a-witch-hunt.html

    The Curse Of Ken Rogoff-----The War On Cash Is A Prelude To Government Default And Wealth Seizure
    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-curse-of-ken-rogoff-the-war-on-cash-is-a-prelude-to-government-default-and-wealth-seizure/

    Marty Peretz’s emptiness and the corruption of Harvard
    https://louisproyect.org/2010/09/21/marty-peretzs-emptiness-and-the-corruption-of-harvard/
    Harvard has named a professorship for Marty Peretz in Yiddish studies and proposes to honor him at a 50th anniversary of the Social Studies program this coming Saturday. 4 undergraduates have sent a pointed letter below, featuring three racist citations form Marty about Muslims, blacks and Chicanoes. That there is such a letter is a true and sad comment on Marty’s career, despite the largely purchased honors, and a deep one about Harvard. ...

    Psychoprostitution
    https://www.citizen.org/our-work/health-and-safety/psychoprostitution
    Dr. Joseph Biederman, a Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, has taken the pharmaceutical company corruption of psychiatry to new depths.....
    https://www.citizen.org/our-work/health-and-safety/psychoprostitution

    That’s because Harvard’s been taken over by Jews. Anything the Jews get their hands on, they are sure to run it to the ground, out of sheer greed, dishonesty and lack of self-restraint, examples abound: msm, academia, Hollywood, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Deep State, Law, and increasingly, medicine.

    Read More
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  32. anon[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @lavoisier

    As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.”
     
    This really is the take home message of the important article by Ron Unz. But instead the focus is on the poor Asians.

    Yes, the Asians are being discriminated against. But NOT as MUCH as white Christians.

    And who is being favored by the discrimination?

    Yes, Blacks and Hispanics. But so are the Jews.

    You are unlikely to get that part of the story line from the MSM.

    A truly meritocratic admission at Harvard will probably result in <1% black, <3% hispanic, <10% Jew, 40% Asian, 46% white gentile. It'll also be more likely 70-30 male-female.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    A truly meritocratic admission at Harvard will probably result in <1% black, <3% hispanic, <10% Jew, 40% Asian, 46% white gentile.
     
    Actually, if we exclude the possible impact of differing application-rates, a fully meritocratic national admissions standard would probably produce a Harvard student body that was roughly 6-7% Jewish, 25-30% Asian, and 60-65% white Gentile.

    I discussed all of this at very considerable length in my 2012 Meritocracy article:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/#meritocracy-vs-jews

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  33. Ron Unz says:
    @anon
    A truly meritocratic admission at Harvard will probably result in <1% black, <3% hispanic, <10% Jew, 40% Asian, 46% white gentile. It'll also be more likely 70-30 male-female.

    A truly meritocratic admission at Harvard will probably result in <1% black, <3% hispanic, <10% Jew, 40% Asian, 46% white gentile.

    Actually, if we exclude the possible impact of differing application-rates, a fully meritocratic national admissions standard would probably produce a Harvard student body that was roughly 6-7% Jewish, 25-30% Asian, and 60-65% white Gentile.

    I discussed all of this at very considerable length in my 2012 Meritocracy article:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/#meritocracy-vs-jews

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    That sounds about right. The latest internal memo from Harvard revealed that based on academic merit and extra curriculars alone, Asians would make up 43% of admits, blacks 0.7%. Most white gentile kids I know here in the west coast, even those from good suburban districts, have stopped applying to schools like Harvard or the rest of the Ivy League. They either apply to State U or lower tier private universities, like Northwestern, NYU or Pomona. Tippy top white kids who are into STEM apply to MIT, Caltech or Stanford. Only Asian kids(typically girls who want to major in STEM) and legacy kids (many Jewish or black) apply to the Ivies.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Out of curiosity, how does that 25-30% Asian break down by subgroup (Chinese, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Filipino, etc)?

    I think you might've mentioned that 15% (half of the 25-30%) were Chinese. I could be wrong about this though.......
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  34. JimB says:
    @PseudoIntellectual
    You're the real expert on Asian college admissions stats and strategies, aren't you?

    You'd be more believable if you stayed away from stereotypes and tried to actually argue facts.

    Let's start with this. Harvard's own internal data and analysis, which it sat on without further study or action, showed that Asian-American applicants consistently outperformed all other demographics, including whites, on grades, standardized tests, alumni interview scores and extracurriculars.

    Continue your bloviation in this comment section if you wish (it's a free speech free fire zone here afterall) but let's see you contend with those facts.

    And then there's this comment from you: "Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college." Not even Harvard attempts to muster data to support this assertion. Can you? Didn't think so.

    You are the king of non-sequiturs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PseudoIntellectual
    I'll take your reply to my response as the intellectual equivalent of tapping out.

    I'll be back should you choose to engage my points on their merits (after you've read the publicly available filings in the ongoing litigation against Harvard, which lay out a lot of data on Harvard's admission's practices and policies).
    , @Jim Christian
    Stereotypes. Stereotypes are the TRUTH. Talk about Orwellian Double Speak. Deny the truth by denigrating stereotypes. If they weren't absolutely, 100% true, they wouldn't be stereotypes. In their element, all those stereotypical Dindu and Asians revert to type. It's what they do, it's what they are.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  35. anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    A truly meritocratic admission at Harvard will probably result in <1% black, <3% hispanic, <10% Jew, 40% Asian, 46% white gentile.
     
    Actually, if we exclude the possible impact of differing application-rates, a fully meritocratic national admissions standard would probably produce a Harvard student body that was roughly 6-7% Jewish, 25-30% Asian, and 60-65% white Gentile.

    I discussed all of this at very considerable length in my 2012 Meritocracy article:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/#meritocracy-vs-jews

    That sounds about right. The latest internal memo from Harvard revealed that based on academic merit and extra curriculars alone, Asians would make up 43% of admits, blacks 0.7%. Most white gentile kids I know here in the west coast, even those from good suburban districts, have stopped applying to schools like Harvard or the rest of the Ivy League. They either apply to State U or lower tier private universities, like Northwestern, NYU or Pomona. Tippy top white kids who are into STEM apply to MIT, Caltech or Stanford. Only Asian kids(typically girls who want to major in STEM) and legacy kids (many Jewish or black) apply to the Ivies.

    Read More
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  36. @JimB
    You are the king of non-sequiturs.

    I’ll take your reply to my response as the intellectual equivalent of tapping out.

    I’ll be back should you choose to engage my points on their merits (after you’ve read the publicly available filings in the ongoing litigation against Harvard, which lay out a lot of data on Harvard’s admission’s practices and policies).

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    You are simply asserting that you know the facts and that I don't. Harvard is concerned with student outcomes, the point that I addressed. The data they are sitting on has nothing to do with actual Harvard student outcomes -- it has to do with the high school records of Asian supplicants begging Harvard for admission because "it's the best." Harvard is skilled at reading transcripts. They are looking for young people who are genuinely creative and intellectual who can contribute constructively to the academic community. Academic grinds who drop their extracurriculars and wonk out for four years are probably better going to a factory sized state university instead of boutique sized Harvard. Same argument applies to the other Ivys. Harvard University has a great deal of experience with Asians before and after admission. The admission model realistically reflects how applicants will perform in the Harvard community socially and academically.
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  37. Meanwhile, back at the Washington Post, read by people that eventually will have a rather large say in these things:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harvard-cant-have-it-all/2018/06/18/ec9f6522-730c-11e8-805c-4b67019fcfe4_story.html?utm_term=.dce90a81cbec

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  38. JimB says:
    @PseudoIntellectual
    I'll take your reply to my response as the intellectual equivalent of tapping out.

    I'll be back should you choose to engage my points on their merits (after you've read the publicly available filings in the ongoing litigation against Harvard, which lay out a lot of data on Harvard's admission's practices and policies).

    You are simply asserting that you know the facts and that I don’t. Harvard is concerned with student outcomes, the point that I addressed. The data they are sitting on has nothing to do with actual Harvard student outcomes — it has to do with the high school records of Asian supplicants begging Harvard for admission because “it’s the best.” Harvard is skilled at reading transcripts. They are looking for young people who are genuinely creative and intellectual who can contribute constructively to the academic community. Academic grinds who drop their extracurriculars and wonk out for four years are probably better going to a factory sized state university instead of boutique sized Harvard. Same argument applies to the other Ivys. Harvard University has a great deal of experience with Asians before and after admission. The admission model realistically reflects how applicants will perform in the Harvard community socially and academically.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Enough with the stereotyping of hardworking Asians. Are they sheep who worship prestige? You bet. But they are not alone. The Jews and WASP elites are even more so. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did not send their kids to University of CA or Washington State, they sent them to Stanford.

    No other country does this holistic admission BS. All other countries simply admit based on academic excellence, incl. Oxbridge, and they do just fine. It's time for this prestige racket and the stupidity of holistic admission to end. They've done enough damage to the country.

    Liberals always argue as if it's the schools that make the students smart, so go ahead and let the Ivies admit the least qualified flunkies and polish them into diamonds. Make Harvard and the rest of the Ivies 100% black and hispanic and let's be done with this farce.

    , @PseudoIntellectual
    I apologize for overestimating your abilities. Obviously doing a google search and reading through legal briefs and expert opinions (and the accompanying data sets) readily available for free online is beyond your cognitive capabilities.

    So now you want to return by repeating your previous points using a lot more words.

    You have no more connection to Harvard or any other selective institution of higher learning than do the opioid addicts who live in your neighborhood. Shoo with your insipid claims to know what Harvard admittees do once they arrive on campus. You've never stepped on Harvard's campuses (any of them), worked in their admissions offices or worked in Silicon Valley, Wall Street, or any other locations where their alums gravitate.
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  39. JimB says:
    @anon
    There is certainly that stereotype of Asians being mostly interested in only pre-med or economics for a career on Wall Street. It's probably why Asians as a group are the highest paid graduates out of Harvard. Perhaps Harvard should consider getting rid of their undergrad Biology, Economics and Engineering departments, that would reduce their Asian applicants by at least 50%.

    And as we all know from Gaussian statistics, stereotypes are about 67% true.

    Read More
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  40. TG says:

    Well you see, racial quotas are only for little people.

    It’s one thing to give away jobs in construction and truck driving and computer programming to ‘minorities.’ But Harvard legacies? Not a chance!

    But while one might rightly be aghast at the lowering of standards in the name of ‘diversity,’ be careful what you wish for, you might get it. There are so many smart asians in the world that without quotas, ALL students in top tier universities would soon be asian. Even the jews would soon be muscled aside by shear weight of numbers! Would that be a good thing? Well that depends, doesn’t it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @lavoisier

    There are so many smart asians in the world that without quotas, ALL students in top tier universities would soon be asian.
     
    In absolute numbers what you are saying is not true for the United States.

    Read the article by Ron Unz, The Myth of American Meritocracy, for more details.

    And why in the world would US universities be obligated to accept Asian students from Asia?

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  41. @JimB
    You are the king of non-sequiturs.

    Stereotypes. Stereotypes are the TRUTH. Talk about Orwellian Double Speak. Deny the truth by denigrating stereotypes. If they weren’t absolutely, 100% true, they wouldn’t be stereotypes. In their element, all those stereotypical Dindu and Asians revert to type. It’s what they do, it’s what they are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PseudoIntellectual
    We have Captain Courageous ("Jim Christian") posting racist trash on here because he's too chicken shit to say it live.

    It speaks volumes that Harvard has been exposed for giving out racial preferences to white guys like you.

    It says even more that you're on here defending "affirmative action" for white guys like you.

    , @JimB
    A stereotype is a useful social null hypothesis.
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  42. lavoisier says: • Website
    @TG
    Well you see, racial quotas are only for little people.

    It's one thing to give away jobs in construction and truck driving and computer programming to 'minorities.' But Harvard legacies? Not a chance!

    But while one might rightly be aghast at the lowering of standards in the name of 'diversity,' be careful what you wish for, you might get it. There are so many smart asians in the world that without quotas, ALL students in top tier universities would soon be asian. Even the jews would soon be muscled aside by shear weight of numbers! Would that be a good thing? Well that depends, doesn't it?

    There are so many smart asians in the world that without quotas, ALL students in top tier universities would soon be asian.

    In absolute numbers what you are saying is not true for the United States.

    Read the article by Ron Unz, The Myth of American Meritocracy, for more details.

    And why in the world would US universities be obligated to accept Asian students from Asia?

    Read More
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  43. anon[286] • Disclaimer says:

    I used to think that Asians are whiners, and that Harvard should have the right to do whatever they see fit to preserve their prestige. As Malcolm Gladwell pointed out, Harvard wouldn’t still be Harvard if it were 40% Asian. It’d be Berkeley.

    But I don’t think that way anymore. Now I’m really glad this lawsuit is going forward, and I’m rooting for the Asians. Harvard has done far more damage to the US than any other institution. The last 2 presidents were both Harvard grads who never would’ve gotten into Harvard without affirmative action. Bushobama gave us 16 years of disastrous governance from warmongering neoconism to wackadoodle far left open-borderism, getting us into 4 wars just btwn the two of them. Obama staffed 75% of his administration with Ivy League grads, 25% from Harvard alone, which explains why it was the worst government in my lifetime. The arrogance, self-righteousness and hypocrisy of these Harvard grads know no bounds. They and their group think are what’s running this country to the ground.

    We need to break up this Harvard cartel. If admitting >40% Asians forces Harvard to take a more academic turn rather than continuing down the social engineering abyss, awesome, if it knocks down Harvard’s prestige a peck or two, so much the better! The whole nation gains if the entire Ivy League simply goes down the tube.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    W followed his Dad into Yale and bought himself an MBA. Then he was a fighter pilot. Not sure what Obama was. No one knows and Harvard ain't talking.
    , @myself
    Contrast the peculiar American system of "holistic admissions" with what the rest of the world uses, which is straight-up academic meritocracy.

    Across Europe and Asia, such traits as leadership potential, personality, extracurriculars, athletics and musical prowess are considered extraneous and not relevant to university performance.

    Even in white Europe, leadership and personality are traits that are considered acquirable and learnable, provided the person has a no bullshit, real mastery of their field. They can be cultivated in real world settings, in other words. Conversely, people who exhibit "confidence" and project "competence" and "polish", while not being true experts, are looked at as posers.

    The "fake it til you make it" types do not get far.

    America is a little unique, and not in a very good way, in that we form strong stereotypes of how certain people are - not just groups, of even individuals - and refer to those stereotypes basically forever. Saves us having to think too deeply.

    So for example, if you knew a jock back in high school, it becomes somewhat harder to take him seriously later in life if/when he decides he wants a STEM career. And vice versa too - the nerdy geek is forever pegged and pigeon-holed into a tech or maybe entrepreneur type, even if he later in life runs for governor successfully.

    Point is, you can never tell with people, based on so-called "holistic" impressions (IMHO, they are impressions, not "criteria").

    Let's put it this way: Objective meritocracy has been the eternal, classic system, proven to produce the best results throughout millennia of human history. Hell, even the old empires and feudal monarchies recognized that their sons and daughters needed the very best advisors, whether of noble blood, or as was often the case, of commoner stock.

    America, though, has chosen to monkey with a logical and proven paradigm. To what end?

    Beats me.
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  44. anon[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimB
    You are simply asserting that you know the facts and that I don't. Harvard is concerned with student outcomes, the point that I addressed. The data they are sitting on has nothing to do with actual Harvard student outcomes -- it has to do with the high school records of Asian supplicants begging Harvard for admission because "it's the best." Harvard is skilled at reading transcripts. They are looking for young people who are genuinely creative and intellectual who can contribute constructively to the academic community. Academic grinds who drop their extracurriculars and wonk out for four years are probably better going to a factory sized state university instead of boutique sized Harvard. Same argument applies to the other Ivys. Harvard University has a great deal of experience with Asians before and after admission. The admission model realistically reflects how applicants will perform in the Harvard community socially and academically.

    Enough with the stereotyping of hardworking Asians. Are they sheep who worship prestige? You bet. But they are not alone. The Jews and WASP elites are even more so. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did not send their kids to University of CA or Washington State, they sent them to Stanford.

    No other country does this holistic admission BS. All other countries simply admit based on academic excellence, incl. Oxbridge, and they do just fine. It’s time for this prestige racket and the stupidity of holistic admission to end. They’ve done enough damage to the country.

    Liberals always argue as if it’s the schools that make the students smart, so go ahead and let the Ivies admit the least qualified flunkies and polish them into diamonds. Make Harvard and the rest of the Ivies 100% black and hispanic and let’s be done with this farce.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB

    Liberals always argue as if it’s the schools that make the students smart, so go ahead and let the Ivies admit the least qualified flunkies and polish them into diamonds.
     
    Harvard is an exercise in branding, not polishing.
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  45. @Ron Unz

    A truly meritocratic admission at Harvard will probably result in <1% black, <3% hispanic, <10% Jew, 40% Asian, 46% white gentile.
     
    Actually, if we exclude the possible impact of differing application-rates, a fully meritocratic national admissions standard would probably produce a Harvard student body that was roughly 6-7% Jewish, 25-30% Asian, and 60-65% white Gentile.

    I discussed all of this at very considerable length in my 2012 Meritocracy article:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/#meritocracy-vs-jews

    Out of curiosity, how does that 25-30% Asian break down by subgroup (Chinese, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Filipino, etc)?

    I think you might’ve mentioned that 15% (half of the 25-30%) were Chinese. I could be wrong about this though…….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Out of curiosity, how does that 25-30% Asian break down by subgroup (Chinese, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Filipino, etc)?

    I think you might’ve mentioned that 15% (half of the 25-30%) were Chinese. I could be wrong about this though…….
     

    That sounds about right. I'd need to dig up my files from 2012 to get the exact figures, though it's possible I actually mentioned them somewhere in my long article. My Quantitative Appendix provides some figures:

    http://www.unz.com/supplement/meritocracy-appendices/#5

    Based on the NMS dataset, my total Asian estimate was about 26%, of which Koreans were 4% and Vietnamese 1%. Japanese were probably less than 1%, and Filipinos couldn't really be estimated since they often have Spanish names, but probably well under 1%. I have the vague recollection that South Asians may have been something like 2-3%, and since the balance would have been almost entirely Chinese, 15% pretty reasonable.

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  46. @anon
    I used to think that Asians are whiners, and that Harvard should have the right to do whatever they see fit to preserve their prestige. As Malcolm Gladwell pointed out, Harvard wouldn't still be Harvard if it were 40% Asian. It'd be Berkeley.

    But I don't think that way anymore. Now I'm really glad this lawsuit is going forward, and I'm rooting for the Asians. Harvard has done far more damage to the US than any other institution. The last 2 presidents were both Harvard grads who never would've gotten into Harvard without affirmative action. Bushobama gave us 16 years of disastrous governance from warmongering neoconism to wackadoodle far left open-borderism, getting us into 4 wars just btwn the two of them. Obama staffed 75% of his administration with Ivy League grads, 25% from Harvard alone, which explains why it was the worst government in my lifetime. The arrogance, self-righteousness and hypocrisy of these Harvard grads know no bounds. They and their group think are what's running this country to the ground.

    We need to break up this Harvard cartel. If admitting >40% Asians forces Harvard to take a more academic turn rather than continuing down the social engineering abyss, awesome, if it knocks down Harvard's prestige a peck or two, so much the better! The whole nation gains if the entire Ivy League simply goes down the tube.

    W followed his Dad into Yale and bought himself an MBA. Then he was a fighter pilot. Not sure what Obama was. No one knows and Harvard ain’t talking.

    Read More
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  47. Ron, how did the No Tuition petition go for Harvard? When you came out with that, their endowment was 24 billion, IIRC. Now it shows 35 billion and climbing.

    Read More
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  48. @JimB
    You are simply asserting that you know the facts and that I don't. Harvard is concerned with student outcomes, the point that I addressed. The data they are sitting on has nothing to do with actual Harvard student outcomes -- it has to do with the high school records of Asian supplicants begging Harvard for admission because "it's the best." Harvard is skilled at reading transcripts. They are looking for young people who are genuinely creative and intellectual who can contribute constructively to the academic community. Academic grinds who drop their extracurriculars and wonk out for four years are probably better going to a factory sized state university instead of boutique sized Harvard. Same argument applies to the other Ivys. Harvard University has a great deal of experience with Asians before and after admission. The admission model realistically reflects how applicants will perform in the Harvard community socially and academically.

    I apologize for overestimating your abilities. Obviously doing a google search and reading through legal briefs and expert opinions (and the accompanying data sets) readily available for free online is beyond your cognitive capabilities.

    So now you want to return by repeating your previous points using a lot more words.

    You have no more connection to Harvard or any other selective institution of higher learning than do the opioid addicts who live in your neighborhood. Shoo with your insipid claims to know what Harvard admittees do once they arrive on campus. You’ve never stepped on Harvard’s campuses (any of them), worked in their admissions offices or worked in Silicon Valley, Wall Street, or any other locations where their alums gravitate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    Hee, hee. Comment sections are a hall of mirrors.
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  49. @Jim Christian
    Stereotypes. Stereotypes are the TRUTH. Talk about Orwellian Double Speak. Deny the truth by denigrating stereotypes. If they weren't absolutely, 100% true, they wouldn't be stereotypes. In their element, all those stereotypical Dindu and Asians revert to type. It's what they do, it's what they are.

    We have Captain Courageous (“Jim Christian”) posting racist trash on here because he’s too chicken shit to say it live.

    It speaks volumes that Harvard has been exposed for giving out racial preferences to white guys like you.

    It says even more that you’re on here defending “affirmative action” for white guys like you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    Too chickenshit to say WHAT live? To whom? Truth-telling isn't broadcast, no one is allowed to say it live. I say it live, in my real name. Unlike YOU, Coward.

    Affirmative Action for White guys? That's a laugh. I'd settle for merit. In spite of preferences for minorities, I profited regardless. Which is more than I can say for Blacks. Women. Hispanics. There's no affirmative action for Whites, I can assure you. They have to reserve SOME spots for paying customers, idiot. That happens to be Whites. Not that a minority such as yourself would understand the concept.
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  50. Ron Unz says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Out of curiosity, how does that 25-30% Asian break down by subgroup (Chinese, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Filipino, etc)?

    I think you might've mentioned that 15% (half of the 25-30%) were Chinese. I could be wrong about this though.......

    Out of curiosity, how does that 25-30% Asian break down by subgroup (Chinese, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Filipino, etc)?

    I think you might’ve mentioned that 15% (half of the 25-30%) were Chinese. I could be wrong about this though…….

    That sounds about right. I’d need to dig up my files from 2012 to get the exact figures, though it’s possible I actually mentioned them somewhere in my long article. My Quantitative Appendix provides some figures:

    http://www.unz.com/supplement/meritocracy-appendices/#5

    Based on the NMS dataset, my total Asian estimate was about 26%, of which Koreans were 4% and Vietnamese 1%. Japanese were probably less than 1%, and Filipinos couldn’t really be estimated since they often have Spanish names, but probably well under 1%. I have the vague recollection that South Asians may have been something like 2-3%, and since the balance would have been almost entirely Chinese, 15% pretty reasonable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Thanks.

    I found where you mentioned the 15% figure.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    The results are particularly striking when cast in quantitative terms: although just 1 percent of American high-school graduates each year have ethnic Chinese origins, surname analysis indicates that they currently include nearly 15 percent of the highest-achieving students, a performance ratio more than four times better than that of American Jews, the top-scoring white ancestry group.

     

    15% Chinese might actually be an underestimate....There are many ethnic Chinese in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, the Phillipines, and other Southeast Asian nations. Some are full-blooded Chinese, while others are mixed-ethnicity. Some of these Chinese kept their Chinese surnames, but others (such as Thai-Chinese) often adopted local surnames. Many of these individuals have settled in America.... So if you factor this in, the Chinese percentage might be even higher. 15% could be a lower-bound for Chinese representation.

    It's pretty remarkable that South Asians are only 2-3% of the high achievers. They form an absurdly high percentage of the finalists in Spelling Bees, Westinghouse competitions, Math Olympiads, and other types of academic competitions.... I wonder why this discrepancy exists....... For them, there seems to be a delinking of aptitude from achievement.
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  51. @PseudoIntellectual
    We have Captain Courageous ("Jim Christian") posting racist trash on here because he's too chicken shit to say it live.

    It speaks volumes that Harvard has been exposed for giving out racial preferences to white guys like you.

    It says even more that you're on here defending "affirmative action" for white guys like you.

    Too chickenshit to say WHAT live? To whom? Truth-telling isn’t broadcast, no one is allowed to say it live. I say it live, in my real name. Unlike YOU, Coward.

    Affirmative Action for White guys? That’s a laugh. I’d settle for merit. In spite of preferences for minorities, I profited regardless. Which is more than I can say for Blacks. Women. Hispanics. There’s no affirmative action for Whites, I can assure you. They have to reserve SOME spots for paying customers, idiot. That happens to be Whites. Not that a minority such as yourself would understand the concept.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PseudoIntellectual
    You wouldn't say your crap live to anyone to whom it'd be insulting.

    Don't worry, Gramps, I don't engage in fisticuffs with senior citizens.

    And you're another idiot who hasn't read, much less processed, the data that Harvard was forced to turn over.

    BTW, Ron Unz (whom you seem to idolize) uses standardized test scores as a proxy for academic merit in his Myth of American Meritocracy piece, which you also haven't read. Unz's article in turn formed the intellectual blueprint for the pending lawsuit against Harvard.

    But you wouldn't know any of that because you're relying on your "gut," ie stereotypes.

    Go back to watching Sean Hannity now. That's more your speed.

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  52. JimB says:
    @anon
    Enough with the stereotyping of hardworking Asians. Are they sheep who worship prestige? You bet. But they are not alone. The Jews and WASP elites are even more so. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did not send their kids to University of CA or Washington State, they sent them to Stanford.

    No other country does this holistic admission BS. All other countries simply admit based on academic excellence, incl. Oxbridge, and they do just fine. It's time for this prestige racket and the stupidity of holistic admission to end. They've done enough damage to the country.

    Liberals always argue as if it's the schools that make the students smart, so go ahead and let the Ivies admit the least qualified flunkies and polish them into diamonds. Make Harvard and the rest of the Ivies 100% black and hispanic and let's be done with this farce.

    Liberals always argue as if it’s the schools that make the students smart, so go ahead and let the Ivies admit the least qualified flunkies and polish them into diamonds.

    Harvard is an exercise in branding, not polishing.

    Read More
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  53. JimB says:
    @PseudoIntellectual
    I apologize for overestimating your abilities. Obviously doing a google search and reading through legal briefs and expert opinions (and the accompanying data sets) readily available for free online is beyond your cognitive capabilities.

    So now you want to return by repeating your previous points using a lot more words.

    You have no more connection to Harvard or any other selective institution of higher learning than do the opioid addicts who live in your neighborhood. Shoo with your insipid claims to know what Harvard admittees do once they arrive on campus. You've never stepped on Harvard's campuses (any of them), worked in their admissions offices or worked in Silicon Valley, Wall Street, or any other locations where their alums gravitate.

    Hee, hee. Comment sections are a hall of mirrors.

    Read More
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  54. JimB says:
    @Jim Christian
    Stereotypes. Stereotypes are the TRUTH. Talk about Orwellian Double Speak. Deny the truth by denigrating stereotypes. If they weren't absolutely, 100% true, they wouldn't be stereotypes. In their element, all those stereotypical Dindu and Asians revert to type. It's what they do, it's what they are.

    A stereotype is a useful social null hypothesis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PseudoIntellectual
    You're quite the dull hypothesis.

    I just told you how to educate yourself about the ongoing Harvard suit and you just come up with more insipid derp and blather.

    Oh, go on and tell us about your glorious years as the "captain of the Harvard crew team," loser.

    That's how you got to know about Harvard admissions, right? Riiiiight.
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  55. @Jim Christian
    Too chickenshit to say WHAT live? To whom? Truth-telling isn't broadcast, no one is allowed to say it live. I say it live, in my real name. Unlike YOU, Coward.

    Affirmative Action for White guys? That's a laugh. I'd settle for merit. In spite of preferences for minorities, I profited regardless. Which is more than I can say for Blacks. Women. Hispanics. There's no affirmative action for Whites, I can assure you. They have to reserve SOME spots for paying customers, idiot. That happens to be Whites. Not that a minority such as yourself would understand the concept.

    You wouldn’t say your crap live to anyone to whom it’d be insulting.

    Don’t worry, Gramps, I don’t engage in fisticuffs with senior citizens.

    And you’re another idiot who hasn’t read, much less processed, the data that Harvard was forced to turn over.

    BTW, Ron Unz (whom you seem to idolize) uses standardized test scores as a proxy for academic merit in his Myth of American Meritocracy piece, which you also haven’t read. Unz’s article in turn formed the intellectual blueprint for the pending lawsuit against Harvard.

    But you wouldn’t know any of that because you’re relying on your “gut,” ie stereotypes.

    Go back to watching Sean Hannity now. That’s more your speed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    Haven't watched Hannity in years. Hannity must be the new liberal taunt. As for your fisticuffs, you're the type that wilted from every fight you ever started. I know this because you bring it up. No one that was ever in a fight volunteers such nonsense. You advocate an elitist EEOC scheme, merit is the farthest thing from your intentions. Personally, I thought Ron's best advice to Harvard was to eliminate tuition since it's a tiny percentage of their income and so huge for each student. I give a shit if they FILL Harvard with Jews and CHinese and Japanese and whomever else cuts the highest grades. Merit. What do I care, anyway? But EEOC, it's a train wreck.

    As for Gramps, Gramps here, still 6'1", still 220, still talking down to little pussies on the web. Who said anything about fisticuffs? Only fisticuffs you ever engaged in was anal, with your Liberace lover. Now go blow a balloon, or whatever it is you blow. Ya wuss.

    Pseudo, yes, apropos. NoIntellect, BrainlessMoron or Dumbass would be far more appropriate monikers for you, Pseudo is too smart for you. Your positions threaten no one, have no idea why you don't just use your real name..
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  56. @JimB
    A stereotype is a useful social null hypothesis.

    You’re quite the dull hypothesis.

    I just told you how to educate yourself about the ongoing Harvard suit and you just come up with more insipid derp and blather.

    Oh, go on and tell us about your glorious years as the “captain of the Harvard crew team,” loser.

    That’s how you got to know about Harvard admissions, right? Riiiiight.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    You seem to be hurling ad hominem attacks left and right at other commenters. Tsk, tsk. Hardly a sound strategy for argument. Would you like a quick lesson on Toulmin’s model?
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  57. JimB says:
    @PseudoIntellectual
    You're quite the dull hypothesis.

    I just told you how to educate yourself about the ongoing Harvard suit and you just come up with more insipid derp and blather.

    Oh, go on and tell us about your glorious years as the "captain of the Harvard crew team," loser.

    That's how you got to know about Harvard admissions, right? Riiiiight.

    You seem to be hurling ad hominem attacks left and right at other commenters. Tsk, tsk. Hardly a sound strategy for argument. Would you like a quick lesson on Toulmin’s model?

    Read More
    • Replies: @PseudoIntellectual
    I decide on character on an individual by individual basis and, when I insult, I insult individuals like you who are most deserving.

    You and your posting buddy Jim Christian like attacking people because of their affiliation with certain groups. That's where we differ.

    And I'm waiting for your deeply insightful comments about Ron Unz's Myth of Meritocracy piece or the extensive data sets publicized in the Harvard litigation.... but I'm not holding my breath.
    , @Jim Christian

    You seem to be hurling ad hominem attacks left and right at other commenters. Tsk, tsk. Hardly a sound strategy for argument. Would you like a quick lesson on Toulmin’s model?
     
    PseudoInel is a woman somewhere in a cubicle, 5'4", 270 pounds, can't get a date and is she pissed! Usually, these are some form of slimy feminist with her thong in a twist. I wouldn't spend five minutes on her.

    She's offering fisticuffs and so that probably means she wields a strapon. She definitely has fisting on her mind.
     
     
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  58. myself says:
    @anon
    I used to think that Asians are whiners, and that Harvard should have the right to do whatever they see fit to preserve their prestige. As Malcolm Gladwell pointed out, Harvard wouldn't still be Harvard if it were 40% Asian. It'd be Berkeley.

    But I don't think that way anymore. Now I'm really glad this lawsuit is going forward, and I'm rooting for the Asians. Harvard has done far more damage to the US than any other institution. The last 2 presidents were both Harvard grads who never would've gotten into Harvard without affirmative action. Bushobama gave us 16 years of disastrous governance from warmongering neoconism to wackadoodle far left open-borderism, getting us into 4 wars just btwn the two of them. Obama staffed 75% of his administration with Ivy League grads, 25% from Harvard alone, which explains why it was the worst government in my lifetime. The arrogance, self-righteousness and hypocrisy of these Harvard grads know no bounds. They and their group think are what's running this country to the ground.

    We need to break up this Harvard cartel. If admitting >40% Asians forces Harvard to take a more academic turn rather than continuing down the social engineering abyss, awesome, if it knocks down Harvard's prestige a peck or two, so much the better! The whole nation gains if the entire Ivy League simply goes down the tube.

    Contrast the peculiar American system of “holistic admissions” with what the rest of the world uses, which is straight-up academic meritocracy.

    Across Europe and Asia, such traits as leadership potential, personality, extracurriculars, athletics and musical prowess are considered extraneous and not relevant to university performance.

    Even in white Europe, leadership and personality are traits that are considered acquirable and learnable, provided the person has a no bullshit, real mastery of their field. They can be cultivated in real world settings, in other words. Conversely, people who exhibit “confidence” and project “competence” and “polish”, while not being true experts, are looked at as posers.

    The “fake it til you make it” types do not get far.

    America is a little unique, and not in a very good way, in that we form strong stereotypes of how certain people are – not just groups, of even individuals – and refer to those stereotypes basically forever. Saves us having to think too deeply.

    So for example, if you knew a jock back in high school, it becomes somewhat harder to take him seriously later in life if/when he decides he wants a STEM career. And vice versa too – the nerdy geek is forever pegged and pigeon-holed into a tech or maybe entrepreneur type, even if he later in life runs for governor successfully.

    Point is, you can never tell with people, based on so-called “holistic” impressions (IMHO, they are impressions, not “criteria”).

    Let’s put it this way: Objective meritocracy has been the eternal, classic system, proven to produce the best results throughout millennia of human history. Hell, even the old empires and feudal monarchies recognized that their sons and daughters needed the very best advisors, whether of noble blood, or as was often the case, of commoner stock.

    America, though, has chosen to monkey with a logical and proven paradigm. To what end?

    Beats me.

    Read More
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  59. @Ron Unz

    Out of curiosity, how does that 25-30% Asian break down by subgroup (Chinese, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Filipino, etc)?

    I think you might’ve mentioned that 15% (half of the 25-30%) were Chinese. I could be wrong about this though…….
     

    That sounds about right. I'd need to dig up my files from 2012 to get the exact figures, though it's possible I actually mentioned them somewhere in my long article. My Quantitative Appendix provides some figures:

    http://www.unz.com/supplement/meritocracy-appendices/#5

    Based on the NMS dataset, my total Asian estimate was about 26%, of which Koreans were 4% and Vietnamese 1%. Japanese were probably less than 1%, and Filipinos couldn't really be estimated since they often have Spanish names, but probably well under 1%. I have the vague recollection that South Asians may have been something like 2-3%, and since the balance would have been almost entirely Chinese, 15% pretty reasonable.

    Thanks.

    I found where you mentioned the 15% figure.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    The results are particularly striking when cast in quantitative terms: although just 1 percent of American high-school graduates each year have ethnic Chinese origins, surname analysis indicates that they currently include nearly 15 percent of the highest-achieving students, a performance ratio more than four times better than that of American Jews, the top-scoring white ancestry group.

    15% Chinese might actually be an underestimate….There are many ethnic Chinese in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, the Phillipines, and other Southeast Asian nations. Some are full-blooded Chinese, while others are mixed-ethnicity. Some of these Chinese kept their Chinese surnames, but others (such as Thai-Chinese) often adopted local surnames. Many of these individuals have settled in America…. So if you factor this in, the Chinese percentage might be even higher. 15% could be a lower-bound for Chinese representation.

    It’s pretty remarkable that South Asians are only 2-3% of the high achievers. They form an absurdly high percentage of the finalists in Spelling Bees, Westinghouse competitions, Math Olympiads, and other types of academic competitions…. I wonder why this discrepancy exists……. For them, there seems to be a delinking of aptitude from achievement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    Thanks for locating my mention of that 15% figure, which I'd forgotten.

    But except for Vietnamese, the number of such NMS from those other groups is pretty negligible, and even the Vietnamese are only about 1%. So I doubt Chinese having those other names would add more than a sliver to the 15% total. Korean names (e.g. Lee) do overlap with Chinese ones much more frequently, but I was able to use Weyl Analysis to exact the Korean percentage.
    , @Edward
    Some good points regarding a possible underestimation of Chinese representation.

    As for South Asians, 2-3% would still mean that South Asians would be overrepresented in Harvard relative to their population size (they make up about ~1% of the US population), as they already likely are.

    Even so, 2-3% still seems quite low, as you note, especially given that Arthur Hu's data from the 1990s found that Hindus did better than East Asians, on average, on the SAT. It's even more surprising given that Indian-Americans have the highest average household incomes in the United States as well the highest rate of postgraduate degree attainment.

    Moreover, at UC Berkeley, where they have fairly objective admissions criteria (affirmative action is banned in California), South Asians make up 10.4% of the incoming undergraduate population (Chinese make up 18.6% and Whites 24.5%).

    https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

    , @Anonymous Jew
    I have no statistics at hand, but I believe we will see more South Asian dominance in the coming decades. I work with and know many. This includes 3 'couple friends' with at least one South Asian spouse, and they are: 1) family doctor married to an Ivy League MBA (both SA); 2) female Biology PhD married to a White male; 3) Public Health PhD married to a White male. I also work with a lot of them in my semi-tech company and at my previous Investment company. Say what you will about these people - they are genuinely smart. I recall figures - I don't know where they came from - that pegged the IQ of Gen-Z children of East Indians at 111. That's higher than Ashkenazis. But of course, they don't have the Ashkenazis pushiness (low agreeableness), obsessiveness, or ethnic-networking connections (yet). My biggest (but not only) problem with them is the degree to which the vast majority drink the Marxist-egalitarian fundamentalist Kool-Aid. They sound like the new Jews already. I suppose in their defense the same could be said about most coastal-professional Whites.

    Of all the immigrant groups to the US, East Indians/South Asians probably represent the biggest gap between the immigrant-group IQ and home-country IQ. There's also a pretty big gap between the newer waves of Filipino immigrants. Both countries probably have real IQs of around 95 (ie, the average Indian or Filipino would probably develop a 95 IQ if born and raised in the US as I recall from some adoption studies). So you have a group that has an IQ which will likely stabilize about one full standard deviation above their home country.

    I'm with Derbyshire and others in that we shouldn't import an alien overclass. Ashkenazi Jews have been bad enough (from this right-wing Jew's perspective) but at least Jews look White, which reduces a lot of resentment and allows them to 'hide' (latest DNA research I've seen has Ashkenazi's at roughly 60% European and 40% fair-skinned indigenous Levantine). All that said, I take great joy in watching our SJWs explain away why our White Nationalist, institutionally racist society lets these dark brown minorities succeed well above the White average.

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  60. Ron Unz says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Thanks.

    I found where you mentioned the 15% figure.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    The results are particularly striking when cast in quantitative terms: although just 1 percent of American high-school graduates each year have ethnic Chinese origins, surname analysis indicates that they currently include nearly 15 percent of the highest-achieving students, a performance ratio more than four times better than that of American Jews, the top-scoring white ancestry group.

     

    15% Chinese might actually be an underestimate....There are many ethnic Chinese in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, the Phillipines, and other Southeast Asian nations. Some are full-blooded Chinese, while others are mixed-ethnicity. Some of these Chinese kept their Chinese surnames, but others (such as Thai-Chinese) often adopted local surnames. Many of these individuals have settled in America.... So if you factor this in, the Chinese percentage might be even higher. 15% could be a lower-bound for Chinese representation.

    It's pretty remarkable that South Asians are only 2-3% of the high achievers. They form an absurdly high percentage of the finalists in Spelling Bees, Westinghouse competitions, Math Olympiads, and other types of academic competitions.... I wonder why this discrepancy exists....... For them, there seems to be a delinking of aptitude from achievement.

    Thanks for locating my mention of that 15% figure, which I’d forgotten.

    But except for Vietnamese, the number of such NMS from those other groups is pretty negligible, and even the Vietnamese are only about 1%. So I doubt Chinese having those other names would add more than a sliver to the 15% total. Korean names (e.g. Lee) do overlap with Chinese ones much more frequently, but I was able to use Weyl Analysis to exact the Korean percentage.

    Read More
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  61. rec1man says:

    The answer is caste ;

    per California 2018 National Merit List

    1100 East Asians

    350 South Asians

    100 Jews

    40 Muslims

    But among 350 South Asians,

    60 Tamil Brahmins, who are just 5% of US Indian diaspora

    9 Patels who are 10% of US Indian diaspora

    5 Jat Sikhs, who are 8% of US Indian diaspora

    All the winners of elite competitions come from certain elite castes, who form about 30% of the US Indian diaspora, and almost no winners from the other 70%

    Read More
    • Replies: @Edward
    How do those data, from the National Merit List, support your conclusions?

    74 out of 350 of the winners are, according to you, accounted for by 23% of the Indian diaspora. That still leaves ~275 winners to be accounted for by only 7% of the Indian diaspora if, according to you, there are "almost no winners from the other 70%."

    With respect, as I know that you have contributed a lot to our understanding of the Indian diaspora, I don't buy this notion that "all the winners of elite competitions come from certain elite castes". It's almost certainly the case that elite competitions are won disproportionately by those from higher castes, such as Brahmins, Kshatryias/Khatris, Patels and so on, but, in my humble opinion, you overstate the case!
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  62. Clyde says:
    @JimB
    This is much ado about nothing. And comparing Harvard to CalTech is tendentious. CalTech is training scientists and engineers, only. Harvard is a liberal arts school looking for students excelling across a wide range of fields in both STEM and the humanities. They are also looking to admit future civic leaders. Asians are crowding almost exclusively into biochem, computers, and material science, even when they declare themselves humanities majors in the undergraduate application process. So they are at best only a half match to Harvard but a full match to CalTech. Another thing Harvard is fully aware of -- Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college. Only grades matter when it comes to the next step in their career: getting into a prestigious medical school or engineering program. It's almost like their whole life and persona in high school, including 10,000 hours of violin practice and 2000 hours of community service, is a put-on to get past the Harvard admissions committee.

    Sounds true to me. Thanks!

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  63. Edward says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Thanks.

    I found where you mentioned the 15% figure.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    The results are particularly striking when cast in quantitative terms: although just 1 percent of American high-school graduates each year have ethnic Chinese origins, surname analysis indicates that they currently include nearly 15 percent of the highest-achieving students, a performance ratio more than four times better than that of American Jews, the top-scoring white ancestry group.

     

    15% Chinese might actually be an underestimate....There are many ethnic Chinese in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, the Phillipines, and other Southeast Asian nations. Some are full-blooded Chinese, while others are mixed-ethnicity. Some of these Chinese kept their Chinese surnames, but others (such as Thai-Chinese) often adopted local surnames. Many of these individuals have settled in America.... So if you factor this in, the Chinese percentage might be even higher. 15% could be a lower-bound for Chinese representation.

    It's pretty remarkable that South Asians are only 2-3% of the high achievers. They form an absurdly high percentage of the finalists in Spelling Bees, Westinghouse competitions, Math Olympiads, and other types of academic competitions.... I wonder why this discrepancy exists....... For them, there seems to be a delinking of aptitude from achievement.

    Some good points regarding a possible underestimation of Chinese representation.

    As for South Asians, 2-3% would still mean that South Asians would be overrepresented in Harvard relative to their population size (they make up about ~1% of the US population), as they already likely are.

    Even so, 2-3% still seems quite low, as you note, especially given that Arthur Hu’s data from the 1990s found that Hindus did better than East Asians, on average, on the SAT. It’s even more surprising given that Indian-Americans have the highest average household incomes in the United States as well the highest rate of postgraduate degree attainment.

    Moreover, at UC Berkeley, where they have fairly objective admissions criteria (affirmative action is banned in California), South Asians make up 10.4% of the incoming undergraduate population (Chinese make up 18.6% and Whites 24.5%).

    https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Even so, 2-3% still seems quite low, as you note, especially given that Arthur Hu’s data from the 1990s found that Hindus did better than East Asians, on average, on the SAT.
     
    You're absolutely right. As I'd said, I couldn't really remember the figures from 2012, and my vague recollection of 2-3% was entirely incorrect. Out of curiosity, I went back and dug out my old data, and the correct figure for South Asians was actually 6%.
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  64. Edward says:
    @rec1man
    The answer is caste ;

    per California 2018 National Merit List

    1100 East Asians

    350 South Asians

    100 Jews

    40 Muslims

    --

    But among 350 South Asians,

    60 Tamil Brahmins, who are just 5% of US Indian diaspora

    9 Patels who are 10% of US Indian diaspora

    5 Jat Sikhs, who are 8% of US Indian diaspora

    --

    All the winners of elite competitions come from certain elite castes, who form about 30% of the US Indian diaspora, and almost no winners from the other 70%

    How do those data, from the National Merit List, support your conclusions?

    74 out of 350 of the winners are, according to you, accounted for by 23% of the Indian diaspora. That still leaves ~275 winners to be accounted for by only 7% of the Indian diaspora if, according to you, there are “almost no winners from the other 70%.”

    With respect, as I know that you have contributed a lot to our understanding of the Indian diaspora, I don’t buy this notion that “all the winners of elite competitions come from certain elite castes”. It’s almost certainly the case that elite competitions are won disproportionately by those from higher castes, such as Brahmins, Kshatryias/Khatris, Patels and so on, but, in my humble opinion, you overstate the case!

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    Total Brahmins = 155
    ( 60 Tamil Brahmins, Other South Indian Brahmins = 55, North Indian Brahmins = 40 )
    Brahmins are about 20% of the US diaspora

    Total North Indian Merchants ( inc Jains ) = 75
    North Indian merchants are another 10% of US diaspora

    Tamil Upper Caste Dravidians = 15
    Telugu Upper caste Dravidians = 30

    Malayalam Upper Caste Dravidian ( Nair ) = 15 ( genetically enhanced by input from local brahmin males , bcos they were matriarchal caste )

    North Indian scribes ( kayasth ) = 15

    Brahmins + North Indian scribe + North Indian merchant + Upper caste Dravidian =
    155 + 15 + 75 + 60 = 305 ; These add up to about 35% - 40% of US Indian diaspora

    The other 60% - 65% of US Indian diaspora, the more visible Patels and Sikhs, contribute to only 55 / 350

    You will never see a Patel or a Sikh win a spelling bee

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  65. Ron Unz says:
    @Edward
    Some good points regarding a possible underestimation of Chinese representation.

    As for South Asians, 2-3% would still mean that South Asians would be overrepresented in Harvard relative to their population size (they make up about ~1% of the US population), as they already likely are.

    Even so, 2-3% still seems quite low, as you note, especially given that Arthur Hu's data from the 1990s found that Hindus did better than East Asians, on average, on the SAT. It's even more surprising given that Indian-Americans have the highest average household incomes in the United States as well the highest rate of postgraduate degree attainment.

    Moreover, at UC Berkeley, where they have fairly objective admissions criteria (affirmative action is banned in California), South Asians make up 10.4% of the incoming undergraduate population (Chinese make up 18.6% and Whites 24.5%).

    https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

    Even so, 2-3% still seems quite low, as you note, especially given that Arthur Hu’s data from the 1990s found that Hindus did better than East Asians, on average, on the SAT.

    You’re absolutely right. As I’d said, I couldn’t really remember the figures from 2012, and my vague recollection of 2-3% was entirely incorrect. Out of curiosity, I went back and dug out my old data, and the correct figure for South Asians was actually 6%.

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  66. @JimB
    You seem to be hurling ad hominem attacks left and right at other commenters. Tsk, tsk. Hardly a sound strategy for argument. Would you like a quick lesson on Toulmin’s model?

    I decide on character on an individual by individual basis and, when I insult, I insult individuals like you who are most deserving.

    You and your posting buddy Jim Christian like attacking people because of their affiliation with certain groups. That’s where we differ.

    And I’m waiting for your deeply insightful comments about Ron Unz’s Myth of Meritocracy piece or the extensive data sets publicized in the Harvard litigation…. but I’m not holding my breath.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    Oh, I get it. You’re preening. You are a self-appointed judge of men’s character. What are your qualifications?
    , @Jesse Jas.
    You stated someone "deserves" to be insulted you after you assess their character, which seems to be predicated on whether or not they agree with you.

    What is that Wakandian ( Wauconda, IL ) out-loud thinking, or did you snatch that from a Harvard Cult-Marx class on White Privaledge?
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  67. rec1man says:
    @Edward
    How do those data, from the National Merit List, support your conclusions?

    74 out of 350 of the winners are, according to you, accounted for by 23% of the Indian diaspora. That still leaves ~275 winners to be accounted for by only 7% of the Indian diaspora if, according to you, there are "almost no winners from the other 70%."

    With respect, as I know that you have contributed a lot to our understanding of the Indian diaspora, I don't buy this notion that "all the winners of elite competitions come from certain elite castes". It's almost certainly the case that elite competitions are won disproportionately by those from higher castes, such as Brahmins, Kshatryias/Khatris, Patels and so on, but, in my humble opinion, you overstate the case!

    Total Brahmins = 155
    ( 60 Tamil Brahmins, Other South Indian Brahmins = 55, North Indian Brahmins = 40 )
    Brahmins are about 20% of the US diaspora

    Total North Indian Merchants ( inc Jains ) = 75
    North Indian merchants are another 10% of US diaspora

    Tamil Upper Caste Dravidians = 15
    Telugu Upper caste Dravidians = 30

    Malayalam Upper Caste Dravidian ( Nair ) = 15 ( genetically enhanced by input from local brahmin males , bcos they were matriarchal caste )

    North Indian scribes ( kayasth ) = 15

    Brahmins + North Indian scribe + North Indian merchant + Upper caste Dravidian =
    155 + 15 + 75 + 60 = 305 ; These add up to about 35% – 40% of US Indian diaspora

    The other 60% – 65% of US Indian diaspora, the more visible Patels and Sikhs, contribute to only 55 / 350

    You will never see a Patel or a Sikh win a spelling bee

    Read More
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  68. JimB says:
    @PseudoIntellectual
    I decide on character on an individual by individual basis and, when I insult, I insult individuals like you who are most deserving.

    You and your posting buddy Jim Christian like attacking people because of their affiliation with certain groups. That's where we differ.

    And I'm waiting for your deeply insightful comments about Ron Unz's Myth of Meritocracy piece or the extensive data sets publicized in the Harvard litigation.... but I'm not holding my breath.

    Oh, I get it. You’re preening. You are a self-appointed judge of men’s character. What are your qualifications?

    Read More
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  69. @JohnnyWalker123
    Thanks.

    I found where you mentioned the 15% figure.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    The results are particularly striking when cast in quantitative terms: although just 1 percent of American high-school graduates each year have ethnic Chinese origins, surname analysis indicates that they currently include nearly 15 percent of the highest-achieving students, a performance ratio more than four times better than that of American Jews, the top-scoring white ancestry group.

     

    15% Chinese might actually be an underestimate....There are many ethnic Chinese in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, the Phillipines, and other Southeast Asian nations. Some are full-blooded Chinese, while others are mixed-ethnicity. Some of these Chinese kept their Chinese surnames, but others (such as Thai-Chinese) often adopted local surnames. Many of these individuals have settled in America.... So if you factor this in, the Chinese percentage might be even higher. 15% could be a lower-bound for Chinese representation.

    It's pretty remarkable that South Asians are only 2-3% of the high achievers. They form an absurdly high percentage of the finalists in Spelling Bees, Westinghouse competitions, Math Olympiads, and other types of academic competitions.... I wonder why this discrepancy exists....... For them, there seems to be a delinking of aptitude from achievement.

    I have no statistics at hand, but I believe we will see more South Asian dominance in the coming decades. I work with and know many. This includes 3 ‘couple friends’ with at least one South Asian spouse, and they are: 1) family doctor married to an Ivy League MBA (both SA); 2) female Biology PhD married to a White male; 3) Public Health PhD married to a White male. I also work with a lot of them in my semi-tech company and at my previous Investment company. Say what you will about these people – they are genuinely smart. I recall figures – I don’t know where they came from – that pegged the IQ of Gen-Z children of East Indians at 111. That’s higher than Ashkenazis. But of course, they don’t have the Ashkenazis pushiness (low agreeableness), obsessiveness, or ethnic-networking connections (yet). My biggest (but not only) problem with them is the degree to which the vast majority drink the Marxist-egalitarian fundamentalist Kool-Aid. They sound like the new Jews already. I suppose in their defense the same could be said about most coastal-professional Whites.

    Of all the immigrant groups to the US, East Indians/South Asians probably represent the biggest gap between the immigrant-group IQ and home-country IQ. There’s also a pretty big gap between the newer waves of Filipino immigrants. Both countries probably have real IQs of around 95 (ie, the average Indian or Filipino would probably develop a 95 IQ if born and raised in the US as I recall from some adoption studies). So you have a group that has an IQ which will likely stabilize about one full standard deviation above their home country.

    I’m with Derbyshire and others in that we shouldn’t import an alien overclass. Ashkenazi Jews have been bad enough (from this right-wing Jew’s perspective) but at least Jews look White, which reduces a lot of resentment and allows them to ‘hide’ (latest DNA research I’ve seen has Ashkenazi’s at roughly 60% European and 40% fair-skinned indigenous Levantine). All that said, I take great joy in watching our SJWs explain away why our White Nationalist, institutionally racist society lets these dark brown minorities succeed well above the White average.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    A country's success depends on two main factors: Average IQ & personal integrity. Protestant whites have the highest levels of both, that's why they make the most successful societies.

    East Asians have high average IQ but low personal integrity, like the Jews, that's why they make modern looking societies that remain highly corrupt, like China. Japan is an exception because Japanese are far more honest than the Chinese. That's why these people (Chinese, Jews, some upper caste Indians) do well in the Protestant West, the dishonest always make the honest look dumb and naive by comparison.

    South Asians, Latin Americans, Middle Easterners and Africans have low average IQ and low level of personal integrity, that's why they create only failed societies everywhere. That's also why the west is in such trouble because our invaders are of too low IQ and/or too low personal integrity to successfully assimilate. Harvard is now overrun by people of high (and medium) IQ but low personal integrity, and these people are our overlords, as they have been the past 5 decades. That's why the country is so F up.

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  70. anon[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Jew
    I have no statistics at hand, but I believe we will see more South Asian dominance in the coming decades. I work with and know many. This includes 3 'couple friends' with at least one South Asian spouse, and they are: 1) family doctor married to an Ivy League MBA (both SA); 2) female Biology PhD married to a White male; 3) Public Health PhD married to a White male. I also work with a lot of them in my semi-tech company and at my previous Investment company. Say what you will about these people - they are genuinely smart. I recall figures - I don't know where they came from - that pegged the IQ of Gen-Z children of East Indians at 111. That's higher than Ashkenazis. But of course, they don't have the Ashkenazis pushiness (low agreeableness), obsessiveness, or ethnic-networking connections (yet). My biggest (but not only) problem with them is the degree to which the vast majority drink the Marxist-egalitarian fundamentalist Kool-Aid. They sound like the new Jews already. I suppose in their defense the same could be said about most coastal-professional Whites.

    Of all the immigrant groups to the US, East Indians/South Asians probably represent the biggest gap between the immigrant-group IQ and home-country IQ. There's also a pretty big gap between the newer waves of Filipino immigrants. Both countries probably have real IQs of around 95 (ie, the average Indian or Filipino would probably develop a 95 IQ if born and raised in the US as I recall from some adoption studies). So you have a group that has an IQ which will likely stabilize about one full standard deviation above their home country.

    I'm with Derbyshire and others in that we shouldn't import an alien overclass. Ashkenazi Jews have been bad enough (from this right-wing Jew's perspective) but at least Jews look White, which reduces a lot of resentment and allows them to 'hide' (latest DNA research I've seen has Ashkenazi's at roughly 60% European and 40% fair-skinned indigenous Levantine). All that said, I take great joy in watching our SJWs explain away why our White Nationalist, institutionally racist society lets these dark brown minorities succeed well above the White average.

    A country’s success depends on two main factors: Average IQ & personal integrity. Protestant whites have the highest levels of both, that’s why they make the most successful societies.

    East Asians have high average IQ but low personal integrity, like the Jews, that’s why they make modern looking societies that remain highly corrupt, like China. Japan is an exception because Japanese are far more honest than the Chinese. That’s why these people (Chinese, Jews, some upper caste Indians) do well in the Protestant West, the dishonest always make the honest look dumb and naive by comparison.

    South Asians, Latin Americans, Middle Easterners and Africans have low average IQ and low level of personal integrity, that’s why they create only failed societies everywhere. That’s also why the west is in such trouble because our invaders are of too low IQ and/or too low personal integrity to successfully assimilate. Harvard is now overrun by people of high (and medium) IQ but low personal integrity, and these people are our overlords, as they have been the past 5 decades. That’s why the country is so F up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Brown
    "A country’s success depends on two main factors: Average IQ & personal integrity. Protestant whites have the highest levels of both, that’s why they make the most successful societies."

    You got this from Weber or Karl Popper or someone with "high IQ "or "personal integrity" but you have never stopped to think if it is true or false.

    It's is in fact rubbish. Intelligent people can be very stupid.

    "Japan is an exception because Japanese are far more honest than the Chinese."

    Japan is not compatible with your "theory" therefore she is an exception.

    How about the fact that Japan became a "successful society" because she was never colonized ?
    And China didn't become a "successful society" because she was colonized, raped, enslaved, stolen by people with "Average IQ & personal integrity" ?

    In fact, you need some corruption to have a "successful society."

    A "successful society" isn't a moral or a humane society.

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  71. @PseudoIntellectual
    You wouldn't say your crap live to anyone to whom it'd be insulting.

    Don't worry, Gramps, I don't engage in fisticuffs with senior citizens.

    And you're another idiot who hasn't read, much less processed, the data that Harvard was forced to turn over.

    BTW, Ron Unz (whom you seem to idolize) uses standardized test scores as a proxy for academic merit in his Myth of American Meritocracy piece, which you also haven't read. Unz's article in turn formed the intellectual blueprint for the pending lawsuit against Harvard.

    But you wouldn't know any of that because you're relying on your "gut," ie stereotypes.

    Go back to watching Sean Hannity now. That's more your speed.

    Haven’t watched Hannity in years. Hannity must be the new liberal taunt. As for your fisticuffs, you’re the type that wilted from every fight you ever started. I know this because you bring it up. No one that was ever in a fight volunteers such nonsense. You advocate an elitist EEOC scheme, merit is the farthest thing from your intentions. Personally, I thought Ron’s best advice to Harvard was to eliminate tuition since it’s a tiny percentage of their income and so huge for each student. I give a shit if they FILL Harvard with Jews and CHinese and Japanese and whomever else cuts the highest grades. Merit. What do I care, anyway? But EEOC, it’s a train wreck.

    As for Gramps, Gramps here, still 6’1″, still 220, still talking down to little pussies on the web. Who said anything about fisticuffs? Only fisticuffs you ever engaged in was anal, with your Liberace lover. Now go blow a balloon, or whatever it is you blow. Ya wuss.

    Pseudo, yes, apropos. NoIntellect, BrainlessMoron or Dumbass would be far more appropriate monikers for you, Pseudo is too smart for you. Your positions threaten no one, have no idea why you don’t just use your real name..

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    • LOL: Clyde
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  72. @JimB
    You seem to be hurling ad hominem attacks left and right at other commenters. Tsk, tsk. Hardly a sound strategy for argument. Would you like a quick lesson on Toulmin’s model?

    You seem to be hurling ad hominem attacks left and right at other commenters. Tsk, tsk. Hardly a sound strategy for argument. Would you like a quick lesson on Toulmin’s model?

    PseudoInel is a woman somewhere in a cubicle, 5'4", 270 pounds, can't get a date and is she pissed! Usually, these are some form of slimy feminist with her thong in a twist. I wouldn't spend five minutes on her.

    She's offering fisticuffs and so that probably means she wields a strapon. She definitely has fisting on her mind.

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  73. Hibernian says:
    @JimB
    This is much ado about nothing. And comparing Harvard to CalTech is tendentious. CalTech is training scientists and engineers, only. Harvard is a liberal arts school looking for students excelling across a wide range of fields in both STEM and the humanities. They are also looking to admit future civic leaders. Asians are crowding almost exclusively into biochem, computers, and material science, even when they declare themselves humanities majors in the undergraduate application process. So they are at best only a half match to Harvard but a full match to CalTech. Another thing Harvard is fully aware of -- Asians quit their extracurricular pursuits when they get to college. Only grades matter when it comes to the next step in their career: getting into a prestigious medical school or engineering program. It's almost like their whole life and persona in high school, including 10,000 hours of violin practice and 2000 hours of community service, is a put-on to get past the Harvard admissions committee.

    “including 10,000 hours of violin practice and 2000 hours of community service”

    Stereotype much?

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  74. Hibernian says:
    @anon
    There is certainly that stereotype of Asians being mostly interested in only pre-med or economics for a career on Wall Street. It's probably why Asians as a group are the highest paid graduates out of Harvard. Perhaps Harvard should consider getting rid of their undergrad Biology, Economics and Engineering departments, that would reduce their Asian applicants by at least 50%.

    Yea, sure, abolish the programs that the “wrong” people are interested in. Maybe a little illiberal for a liberal arts university.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Harvard stopped teaching classical liberal arts long ago. They now teach "Humanities" which is just another name for Liberalism.
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  75. anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hibernian
    Yea, sure, abolish the programs that the "wrong" people are interested in. Maybe a little illiberal for a liberal arts university.

    Harvard stopped teaching classical liberal arts long ago. They now teach “Humanities” which is just another name for Liberalism.

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  76. Anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve spent 2/3 of my life (I’m 56) in the University of Chicago, South Side Chicago community – an island of monastic scholarship, heavily German Jewish, mixed race and Whites surrounded by the largest all Black African American neighborhoods in North America.

    The University of Chicago has managed to resist a lot of the intellectual corruptions that have plagued the elite US colleges and universities since the 1960s – the U of C had Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of economics. But other forces were here like Bill Ayers, David Axelrod – Obama and Elena Kagan were present.

    But a HUGE announcement was made this month – a University of Chicago Dean did a photo op with New York Times editorial board to announce that the University of Chicago would no longer include academic text scores (SAT, ACT) in admissions and the goal was DIVERSITY…..

    (Not a lot of DIVERSITY on the New York Times editorial page – all Jews)

    This terrible announcement along with the Obama Foundation and Chicago Mayor Emanuel and the Black Caucus grabbing a huge junk of Hyde Park’s Lakefront Park Jackson Park (Andy Jackson) to build a 23 story Obama Presidential Library Complex – given free to the Obama Foundation, this bodes very bad for my community.

    Looks like another was great institution has gone down, gone over to the dark side.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Yep. My kids had Chicago firmly in their sight, but now they won't even apply. Another great WASP institution getting jewed (funny how that rhymes with screwed).
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  77. anon[303] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    I've spent 2/3 of my life (I'm 56) in the University of Chicago, South Side Chicago community - an island of monastic scholarship, heavily German Jewish, mixed race and Whites surrounded by the largest all Black African American neighborhoods in North America.

    The University of Chicago has managed to resist a lot of the intellectual corruptions that have plagued the elite US colleges and universities since the 1960s - the U of C had Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of economics. But other forces were here like Bill Ayers, David Axelrod - Obama and Elena Kagan were present.

    But a HUGE announcement was made this month - a University of Chicago Dean did a photo op with New York Times editorial board to announce that the University of Chicago would no longer include academic text scores (SAT, ACT) in admissions and the goal was DIVERSITY.....

    (Not a lot of DIVERSITY on the New York Times editorial page - all Jews)

    This terrible announcement along with the Obama Foundation and Chicago Mayor Emanuel and the Black Caucus grabbing a huge junk of Hyde Park's Lakefront Park Jackson Park (Andy Jackson) to build a 23 story Obama Presidential Library Complex - given free to the Obama Foundation, this bodes very bad for my community.

    Looks like another was great institution has gone down, gone over to the dark side.

    Yep. My kids had Chicago firmly in their sight, but now they won’t even apply. Another great WASP institution getting jewed (funny how that rhymes with screwed).

    Read More
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  78. Jordi says:

    Sorry for a naive question from a european guy.

    As a white or asian applicant, what prevents you from identifying as black, rent a low cost shack in the most criminal Detroit suburb (where you won’t ever set foot, just rent it for 200$ a year) and indicate it as your “ghetto address”?

    I mean, if you get accepted as black, then show up with a yellow skin, the university will have a hard time rejecting you, especially if it wants to avoid a costly lawsuit. Wouldn’t it be a solution against affirmative action ?

    Observing end learning from other causes, the recent extraordianry success of transgender athletes in feminine sports is driving a real push on how feminists see transgenderism, and I think a few pioneering activists may provide a significant help by “applying as black” against affirmative action.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Of course, since race and gender are now self-selected, it should be much easier to do that today and get away with it. However, from my understanding, these elite colleges have some type of interview with everybody they are considering giving acceptance to. Most likely, if you are claiming to be black, you would be asked to come to an interview from someone who is black. They would likely reject you immediately and you would not be offered admission.
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  79. @anon
    A country's success depends on two main factors: Average IQ & personal integrity. Protestant whites have the highest levels of both, that's why they make the most successful societies.

    East Asians have high average IQ but low personal integrity, like the Jews, that's why they make modern looking societies that remain highly corrupt, like China. Japan is an exception because Japanese are far more honest than the Chinese. That's why these people (Chinese, Jews, some upper caste Indians) do well in the Protestant West, the dishonest always make the honest look dumb and naive by comparison.

    South Asians, Latin Americans, Middle Easterners and Africans have low average IQ and low level of personal integrity, that's why they create only failed societies everywhere. That's also why the west is in such trouble because our invaders are of too low IQ and/or too low personal integrity to successfully assimilate. Harvard is now overrun by people of high (and medium) IQ but low personal integrity, and these people are our overlords, as they have been the past 5 decades. That's why the country is so F up.

    “A country’s success depends on two main factors: Average IQ & personal integrity. Protestant whites have the highest levels of both, that’s why they make the most successful societies.”

    You got this from Weber or Karl Popper or someone with “high IQ “or “personal integrity” but you have never stopped to think if it is true or false.

    It’s is in fact rubbish. Intelligent people can be very stupid.

    “Japan is an exception because Japanese are far more honest than the Chinese.”

    Japan is not compatible with your “theory” therefore she is an exception.

    How about the fact that Japan became a “successful society” because she was never colonized ?
    And China didn’t become a “successful society” because she was colonized, raped, enslaved, stolen by people with “Average IQ & personal integrity” ?

    In fact, you need some corruption to have a “successful society.”

    A “successful society” isn’t a moral or a humane society.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    And China didn’t become a “successful society” because she was colonized, raped, enslaved, stolen by people with “Average IQ & personal integrity” ?

    As Gandhi showed, a country as large as India cannot be ruled by a much smaller country unless the smaller country can find local people to corrupt and do it's bidding. Whatever happend to China could only happen because the place has a large share of people easily corruptable.
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  80. MarkinLA says:
    @Jordi
    Sorry for a naive question from a european guy.

    As a white or asian applicant, what prevents you from identifying as black, rent a low cost shack in the most criminal Detroit suburb (where you won't ever set foot, just rent it for 200$ a year) and indicate it as your "ghetto address"?

    I mean, if you get accepted as black, then show up with a yellow skin, the university will have a hard time rejecting you, especially if it wants to avoid a costly lawsuit. Wouldn't it be a solution against affirmative action ?

    Observing end learning from other causes, the recent extraordianry success of transgender athletes in feminine sports is driving a real push on how feminists see transgenderism, and I think a few pioneering activists may provide a significant help by "applying as black" against affirmative action.

    Of course, since race and gender are now self-selected, it should be much easier to do that today and get away with it. However, from my understanding, these elite colleges have some type of interview with everybody they are considering giving acceptance to. Most likely, if you are claiming to be black, you would be asked to come to an interview from someone who is black. They would likely reject you immediately and you would not be offered admission.

    Read More
    • Replies: @middle aged vet . . .
    Jordi - in addition to what MarkinLA said (I agree completely with his comment), pretending to be African-American when you are not is a no-go, because if it leaks out later in life that you did that you will be treated very very badly. There were a couple of comedies a decade or two ago about kids who pretended to be black to get into places like Harvard, but that was just the movies.

    Pretending to be Native American is fairly easy, especially if you are from the East Coast. When I was in high school, a friend with much worse grades than mine received, out of the blue, a letter from Harvard asking him to consider applying. I don't know the details, but I remember him saying they thought that, because his name sounded Native American (something like Roundtree, a common English name, or Braveheart - I made that one up) he was Native American. I think there was a line in the letter about how welcoming they were to Native Americans (his name was pure Anglo-Saxon). He did not apply to Harvard. But my guess (based on information that would take too long to explain right now, so I won't) is that there are, in each Harvard freshman class, about 10 or so people who have exaggerated their Native American roots. With the exception of Elizabeth Warren, nobody every gets called out on this: remember, there are zero - as in zero - people who are genetically what used to be call, in the old days, "full-blooded" with respect to being East Coast Indians. (In the USA, you have to get west of Texas before you find Native Americans with almost no European admixture).

    My best guess is that lots of the Asian freshmen at Harvard have last names that sound American - (say, Lee, as in Bruce Lee, or Robert E. Lee, instead of Bruce Li or Robert E. Li ( Lee/Li is just one example, if you go down the list of "100 names" the traditional most widely spread family names in China, about half of them have American sounding doppelgangers)or Scandinavian - lots of Finnish names sound like Filipino or Japanese names. My best guess at the over/under is one out of 20. I think that if an Asian interviews them, the fact that they are Asian is not noted down, if a non-Asian interviews them, quien sabe?

    That being said, you have to remember that, among elite Americans, there is a lot of repugnance at having their children submit to the rituals of the Ivy League. In real life, outside of politics and the law the Ivy League, qua Ivy League, is not a big deal (all the Supreme Court has an Ivy League background, and the last guy who did not, John Paul Stevens, had a military background which was fairly impressive, although that being said, the poor man was obviously not very bright, which is too bad, I always want veterans to succeed). A Caltech undergrad degree, in science, is much - not a little, but much - more impressive than any generic Ivy League degree, and the military academies, and BYU, and Stanford are, respectively, the most impressive degree you can have if you are interested in a military career, in being a rich Mormon, or being whatever it is Stanford grads are so good at being .... then there is Wharton, not to mention the traditional Catholic schools, the Evangelical schools, and good old Harvey Mudd, and even my alma mater which specialized in, of all things, "foreign service", even "offering" a "foreign service" degree for many of the undergraduates ....

    Thanks for reading, sorry if that was too long.

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  81. MarkinLA says:
    @James Brown
    "A country’s success depends on two main factors: Average IQ & personal integrity. Protestant whites have the highest levels of both, that’s why they make the most successful societies."

    You got this from Weber or Karl Popper or someone with "high IQ "or "personal integrity" but you have never stopped to think if it is true or false.

    It's is in fact rubbish. Intelligent people can be very stupid.

    "Japan is an exception because Japanese are far more honest than the Chinese."

    Japan is not compatible with your "theory" therefore she is an exception.

    How about the fact that Japan became a "successful society" because she was never colonized ?
    And China didn't become a "successful society" because she was colonized, raped, enslaved, stolen by people with "Average IQ & personal integrity" ?

    In fact, you need some corruption to have a "successful society."

    A "successful society" isn't a moral or a humane society.

    And China didn’t become a “successful society” because she was colonized, raped, enslaved, stolen by people with “Average IQ & personal integrity” ?

    As Gandhi showed, a country as large as India cannot be ruled by a much smaller country unless the smaller country can find local people to corrupt and do it’s bidding. Whatever happend to China could only happen because the place has a large share of people easily corruptable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Brown
    You didn't get my point. People with "personal integrity" don't do corruption.

    "unless the smaller country can find local people to corrupt", which "proves" that "Protestant whites " can be as corrupt, or even more corrupt than Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs etc...

    Power is corruption. You can't build an empire -as "Protestant whites " did-, w/o being highly corrupt.

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  82. @MarkinLA
    And China didn’t become a “successful society” because she was colonized, raped, enslaved, stolen by people with “Average IQ & personal integrity” ?

    As Gandhi showed, a country as large as India cannot be ruled by a much smaller country unless the smaller country can find local people to corrupt and do it's bidding. Whatever happend to China could only happen because the place has a large share of people easily corruptable.

    You didn’t get my point. People with “personal integrity” don’t do corruption.

    “unless the smaller country can find local people to corrupt”, which “proves” that “Protestant whites ” can be as corrupt, or even more corrupt than Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs etc…

    Power is corruption. You can’t build an empire -as “Protestant whites ” did-, w/o being highly corrupt.

    Read More
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  83. @MarkinLA
    Of course, since race and gender are now self-selected, it should be much easier to do that today and get away with it. However, from my understanding, these elite colleges have some type of interview with everybody they are considering giving acceptance to. Most likely, if you are claiming to be black, you would be asked to come to an interview from someone who is black. They would likely reject you immediately and you would not be offered admission.

    Jordi – in addition to what MarkinLA said (I agree completely with his comment), pretending to be African-American when you are not is a no-go, because if it leaks out later in life that you did that you will be treated very very badly. There were a couple of comedies a decade or two ago about kids who pretended to be black to get into places like Harvard, but that was just the movies.

    Pretending to be Native American is fairly easy, especially if you are from the East Coast. When I was in high school, a friend with much worse grades than mine received, out of the blue, a letter from Harvard asking him to consider applying. I don’t know the details, but I remember him saying they thought that, because his name sounded Native American (something like Roundtree, a common English name, or Braveheart – I made that one up) he was Native American. I think there was a line in the letter about how welcoming they were to Native Americans (his name was pure Anglo-Saxon). He did not apply to Harvard. But my guess (based on information that would take too long to explain right now, so I won’t) is that there are, in each Harvard freshman class, about 10 or so people who have exaggerated their Native American roots. With the exception of Elizabeth Warren, nobody every gets called out on this: remember, there are zero – as in zero – people who are genetically what used to be call, in the old days, “full-blooded” with respect to being East Coast Indians. (In the USA, you have to get west of Texas before you find Native Americans with almost no European admixture).

    My best guess is that lots of the Asian freshmen at Harvard have last names that sound American – (say, Lee, as in Bruce Lee, or Robert E. Lee, instead of Bruce Li or Robert E. Li ( Lee/Li is just one example, if you go down the list of “100 names” the traditional most widely spread family names in China, about half of them have American sounding doppelgangers)or Scandinavian – lots of Finnish names sound like Filipino or Japanese names. My best guess at the over/under is one out of 20. I think that if an Asian interviews them, the fact that they are Asian is not noted down, if a non-Asian interviews them, quien sabe?

    That being said, you have to remember that, among elite Americans, there is a lot of repugnance at having their children submit to the rituals of the Ivy League. In real life, outside of politics and the law the Ivy League, qua Ivy League, is not a big deal (all the Supreme Court has an Ivy League background, and the last guy who did not, John Paul Stevens, had a military background which was fairly impressive, although that being said, the poor man was obviously not very bright, which is too bad, I always want veterans to succeed). A Caltech undergrad degree, in science, is much – not a little, but much – more impressive than any generic Ivy League degree, and the military academies, and BYU, and Stanford are, respectively, the most impressive degree you can have if you are interested in a military career, in being a rich Mormon, or being whatever it is Stanford grads are so good at being …. then there is Wharton, not to mention the traditional Catholic schools, the Evangelical schools, and good old Harvey Mudd, and even my alma mater which specialized in, of all things, “foreign service”, even “offering” a “foreign service” degree for many of the undergraduates ….

    Thanks for reading, sorry if that was too long.

    Read More
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  84. @PseudoIntellectual
    I decide on character on an individual by individual basis and, when I insult, I insult individuals like you who are most deserving.

    You and your posting buddy Jim Christian like attacking people because of their affiliation with certain groups. That's where we differ.

    And I'm waiting for your deeply insightful comments about Ron Unz's Myth of Meritocracy piece or the extensive data sets publicized in the Harvard litigation.... but I'm not holding my breath.

    You stated someone “deserves” to be insulted you after you assess their character, which seems to be predicated on whether or not they agree with you.

    What is that Wakandian ( Wauconda, IL ) out-loud thinking, or did you snatch that from a Harvard Cult-Marx class on White Privaledge?

    Read More
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