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American Pravda: The JFK Assassination, Part I - What Happened?
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About a decade ago, I got a Netflix subscription and was amazed that the Internet now provided immediate access to so many thousands of movies on my own computer screen. But after a week or two of heavy use and the creation of a long watch-list of prospective films I’d always wanted to see, my workload gained the upper hand, and I mostly abandoned the system.

Back then, nearly all Netflix content was licensed from the major studios and depending upon contract negotiations might annually disappear, so when I happened to browse my account again in December, I noticed that a couple of films on my selection list included warning notices saying they would no longer be available on January 1st. One of these was Oliver Stone’s famous 1991 film JFK, which had provoked quite a stir at the time, so thinking now or never, I clicked the Play button, and spent three hours that evening watching the Oscar winner.

Most of the plot seemed bizarre and outlandish to me, with the president’s killing in Dallas supposedly having been organized by a cabal of militantly anti-Communist homosexuals, somehow connected with both the CIA and the mafia, but based in New Orleans. Kevin Costner starred as a crusading District Attorney named Jim Garrison—presumably fictional—whose investigation broke the assassination conspiracy wide open before the subtle tentacles of the Deep State finally managed to squelch his prosecution; or at least that’s what I vaguely remember from my single viewing. With so many implausible elements, the film confirmed my belief in the wild imagination of Hollywood scriptwriters and also demonstrated why no one with any common sense had ever taken seriously those ridiculous “JFK conspiracy theories.”

Despite its dramatic turns, the true circumstances of President John F. Kennedy’s death seemed an island of sanity by comparison. Lee Harvey Oswald, a disgruntled young marine had defected to the USSR in 1959 and finding life behind the Iron Curtain equally unsatisfactory, returned to America a couple of years later. Still having confused Marxist sympathies, he’d joined public protests supporting Fidel Castro’s Cuba, and gradually turning toward violence, purchased a mail-order rifle. During the presidential visit, he had fired three shots from the Dallas School Book Depository, killing JFK, and was quickly apprehended by the local police. Soon, he too was dead, shot by an outraged Kennedy supporter named Jack Ruby. All these sad facts were later confirmed by the Warren Commission in DC, presided over by the U.S. Chief Justice together with some of America’s most respected public figures, and their voluminous report ran nearly 900 pages.

Yet although the film seemed to have affixed an enormous mass of incoherent fictional lunacy on top of that basic history—why would a murder plot in Dallas have been organized in New Orleans, five hundred miles distant?—one single detail troubled me. Garrison is shown denouncing the “lone gunman theory” for claiming that a single bullet was responsible for seven separate wounds in President Kennedy and Texas Gov. John Connolly, seated beside him in the limousine. Now inventing gay CIA assassins seems pretty standard Hollywood fare, but I found it unlikely that anyone would ever insert a fictional detail so wildly implausible as that bullet’s trajectory. A week or so later, the memory popped into my head, and I googled around a bit, discovering to my total astonishment that the seven-wounds-from-one-bullet claim was totally factual, and indeed constituted an absolutely essential element of the orthodox “single gunman” framework given that Oswald had fired at most three shots. So that was the so-called “Magic Bullet” I’d occasionally seen conspiracy-nuts ranting and raving about. For the first time in my entire life, I started to wonder whether maybe, just maybe there actually had been some sort of conspiracy behind the most famous assassination in modern world history.

Any conspirators had surely died of old age many years or even decades earlier and I was completely preoccupied with my own work, so investigating the strange circumstances of JFK’s death was hardly a high personal priority. But the suspicions remained in the back of my mind as I diligently read my New York Times and Wall Street Journal every morning while periodically browsing less reputable websites during the afternoon and evening. And as a result, I now began noticing little items buried here and there that I would have previously ignored or immediately dismissed, and these strengthened my newly emerging curiosity.

Among other things, occasional references reminded me that I’d previously seen my newspapers discuss a couple of newly released JFK books in rather respectful terms, which had surprised me a bit at the time. One of them, still generating discussion, was JFK and the Unspeakable published in 2008 by James W. Douglass, whose name meant nothing to me. And the other, which I hadn’t originally realized trafficked in any assassination conspiracies, was David Talbot’s 2007 Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years, focused on the relationship between John F. Kennedy and his younger brother Robert. Talbot’s name was also somewhat familiar to me as the founder of Salon.com and a well-regarded if liberal-leaning journalist.

None of us have expertise in all areas, so sensible people must regularly delegate their judgment to credible third-parties, relying upon others to distinguish sense from nonsense. Since my knowledge of the JFK assassination was nil, I decided that two recent books attracting newspaper coverage might be a good place to start. So perhaps a couple of years after watching that Oliver Stone film, I cleared some time in my schedule, and spent a few days carefully reading the combined thousand pages of text.

I was stunned at what I immediately discovered. Not only was the evidence of a “conspiracy” absolutely overwhelming, but whereas I’d always assumed that only kooks doubted the official story, I instead discovered that a long list of the most powerful people near the top of the American government and in the best position to know had been privately convinced of such a “conspiracy,” in many cases from almost the very beginning.

ORDER IT NOW

The Talbot book especially impressed me, being based on over 150 personal interviews and released by The Free Press, a highly reputable publisher. Although he applied a considerable hagiographic gloss to the Kennedys, his narrative was compellingly written, with numerous gripping scenes. But while such packaging surely helped to explain some of the favorable treatment from reviewers and how he had managed to produce a national bestseller in a seemingly long-depleted field, for me the packaging was much less important than the product itself.

To the extent that notions of a JFK conspiracy had ever crossed my mind, I’d considered the argument from silence absolutely conclusive. Surely if there had been the slightest doubt of the “lone gunman” conclusion endorsed by the Warren Commission, Attorney-General Robert Kennedy would have launched a full investigation to avenge his slain brother.

But as Talbot so effectively demonstrates, the reality of the political situation was entirely different. Robert Kennedy may have begun that fatal morning widely regarded as the second most powerful man in the country, but the moment his brother was dead and his bitter personal enemy Lyndon Johnson sworn in as the new president, his governmental authority almost immediately ebbed away. Longtime FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, who had been his hostile subordinate, probably scheduled for removal in JFK’s second term, immediately became contemptuous and unresponsive to his requests. Having lost all his control over the levels of power, Robert Kennedy lacked any ability to conduct a serious investigation.

According to numerous personal interviews, he had almost immediately concluded that his brother had been struck down at the hands of an organized group, very likely including elements from within the U.S. government itself, but he could do nothing about the situation. As he regularly confided to close associates, his hope at the age of 38 was to reach the White House himself at some future date, and with his hands once again upon the levels of power then uncover his brother’s killers and bring them to justice. But until that day, he could do nothing, and any unsubstantiated accusations he made would be totally disastrous both for national unity and for his own personal credibility. So for years, he was forced to nod his head and publicly acquiesce to the official story of his brother’s inexplicable assassination at the hands of a lone nut, a fairy tale publicly endorsed by nearly the entire political establishment, and this situation deeply gnawed at him. Moreover, his own seeming acceptance of that story was often interpreted by others, not least in the media, as his wholehearted endorsement.

Although discovering Robert Kennedy’s true beliefs was a crucial revelation in the Talbot book, there were many others. At most three shots had allegedly come from Oswald’s rifle, but Roy Kellerman, the Secret Service agent in the passenger seat of JFK’s limousine, was sure there had been more than that, and to the end of his life always believed there had been additional shooters. Gov. Connolly, seated next to JFK and severely wounded in the attack, had exactly the same opinion. CIA Director John McCone was equally convinced that there had been multiple shooters. Across the pages of Talbot’s book, I learned that dozens of prominent, well-connected individuals privately expressed extreme skepticism towards the official “lone gunman theory” of the Warren Commission, although such doubts were very rarely made in public or on the record.

For a variety of complex reasons, the leading national media organs—the commanding heights of “Our American Pravda”—almost immediately endorsed the “lone gunman theory” and with some exceptions generally maintained that stance throughout the next half-century. With few prominent critics willing to publicly dispute that idea and a strong media tendency to ignore or minimize those exceptions, casual observers such as myself had generally received a severely distorted view of the situation.

If the first two dozen pages of the Talbot book completely overturned my understanding of the JFK assassination, I found the closing section almost equally shocking. With the Vietnam War as a political millstone about his neck, President Johnson decided not to seek reelection in 1968, opening the door to a last minute entry into the Democratic race by Robert Kennedy, who overcame considerable odds to win some important primaries. Then on June 4, 1968, he carried gigantic winner-take-all California, placing him on an easy path to the nomination and the presidency itself, at which point he would finally be in a position to fully investigate his brother’s assassination. But minutes after his victory speech, he was shot and fatally wounded, allegedly by another lone gunman, this time a disoriented Palestinian immigrant named Sirhan Sirhan, supposedly outraged over Kennedy’s pro-Israel public positions although these were no different than those expressed by most other political candidates in America.

All this was well known to me. However, I had not known that powder burns later proved that the fatal bullet had been fired directly behind Kennedy’s head from a distance of three inches or less although Sirhan was standing several feet in front of him. Furthermore, eyewitness testimony and acoustic evidence indicated that at least twelve bullets were fired although Sirhan’s revolver could hold only eight, and a combination of these factors led longtime LA Coroner Dr. Thomas Naguchi, who conducted the autopsy, to claim in his 1983 memoir that there was likely a second gunman. Meanwhile, eyewitnesses also reported seeing a security guard with his gun drawn standing right behind Kennedy during the attack, and that individual happened to have a deep political hatred of the Kennedys. The police investigators seemed uninterested in these highly suspicious elements, none of which came to light during the trial. With two Kennedy brothers now dead, neither any surviving members of the family nor most of their allies and retainers had any desire to investigate the details of this latest assassination, and in a number of cases they soon moved overseas, abandoning the country entirely. JFK’s widow Jackie confided in friends that she was terrified for the lives of her children, and quickly married Aristotle Onassis, a Greek billionaire, whom she felt would be able to protect them.

Talbot also devotes a chapter to the late 1960s prosecution efforts of New Orleans DA Jim Garrison, which had been the central plot of the JFK film, and I was stunned to discover that the script was almost entirely based on real life events rather than Hollywood fantasy. This even extended to its bizarre cast of assassination conspiracy suspects, mostly fanatically anti-Communist Kennedy-haters with CIA and organized crime ties, some of whom were indeed prominent members of the New Orleans gay demimonde. Sometimes real life is far stranger than fiction.

 

Taken as a whole, I found Talbot’s narrative quite convincing, at least with respect to demonstrating the existence of a substantial conspiracy behind the fatal event.

Others certainly had the same reaction, with the august pages of The New York Times Sunday Book Review carrying the strongly favorable reaction of presidential historian Alan Brinkley. As the Allan Nevins Professor of History and Provost of Columbia University, Brinkley is as mainstream and respectable an academic scholar as might be imagined and he characterized Talbot as

the latest of many intelligent critics who have set out to demolish the tottering credibility of the Warren Commission and draw attention to evidence of a broad and terrible conspiracy that lay behind the assassination of John Kennedy — and perhaps the murder of Robert Kennedy as well.

ORDER IT NOW

The other book by Douglass, released a year later, covered much the same ground and came to roughly similar conclusions, with substantial overlap but also including major additional elements drawn from the enormous volume of extremely suspicious material unearthed over the decades by diligent JFK researchers. Once again, the often bitter Cold War era conflict between JFK and various much harder-line elements of his government over Cuba, Russia, and Vietnam is sketched out as the likely explanation for his death.

Summarizing a half-century of conspiracy research, the Talbot and Douglass books together provide a wealth of persuasive evidence that elements of organized crime, individuals with CIA connections, and anti-Castro Cubans were probably participants in the assassination plot. Oswald seems to have been working with various anti-Communist groups and also had significant connections to U.S. intelligence, while his purported Marxism was merely a very thin disguise. With regard to the assassination itself, he was exactly the “patsy” he publicly claimed to be, and very likely never fired a single shot. Meanwhile, Jack Ruby had a long history of ties to organized crime, and surely killed Oswald to shut his mouth.

Many others may have suffered a similar fate. Conspirators daring enough to strike at the president of the United States would hardly balk at using lethal means to protect themselves from the consequences of their action, and over the years a considerable number of individuals associated with the case in one way or another came to untimely ends.

Less than a year after the assassination, JFK mistress Mary Meyer, the ex-wife of high-ranking CIA official Cord Meyer, was found shot to death in a Washington DC street-killing with no indications of attempted robbery or rape, and the case was never solved. Immediately afterwards, CIA counterintelligence chief James Jesus Angleton was caught breaking into her home in search of her personal diary, which he later claimed to have destroyed.

Dorothy Kilgallen was a nationally-syndicated newspaper columnist and television personality, and she managed to wrangle an exclusive interview with Jack Ruby, later boasting to her friends that she would break the JFK assassination case wide open in her new book, producing the biggest scoop of her career. Instead, she was found dead in her Upper East Side townhouse, having apparently succumbed to an overdose of alcohol and sleeping pills, with both the draft text and the notes to her Jack Ruby chapter missing.

Shortly before Jim Garrison filed his assassination charges, his top suspect David Ferrie was found dead at age 48, possibly of natural causes, though the DA suspected foul play.

During the mid-1970s, the House Select Committee on Assassinations held a series of high-profile hearings to reopen and investigate the case, and two of the witnesses called were high-ranking mafia figures Sam Giancana and Johnny Rosselli, widely suspected of having been connected with the assassination. The former was shot to death in the basement of his home one week before he was scheduled to testify, and the body of the latter was found in an oil-drum floating in the waters off Miami after he had been subpoenaed for an additional appearance.

These were merely a few of the highest-profile individuals with a connection to the Dallas assassination whose lives were cut short in the years that followed, and although the deaths may have been purely coincidental, the full list is rather a long one.

 

Having read a couple of books that completely upended my settled beliefs about a central event of twentieth century America, I simply didn’t know what to think. Over the years, my own writings had put me on friendly terms with a well-connected individual whom I considered a member of the elite establishment, and whose intelligence and judgment had always seemed extremely solid. So I decided to very gingerly raise the subject with him, and see whether he had ever doubted the “lone gunman” orthodoxy. To my total astonishment, he explained that as far back as the early 1990s, he’d become absolutely convinced in the reality of a “JFK conspiracy” and over the years had quietly devoured a huge number of the books in that field, but had never breathed a word in public lest his credibility be ruined and his political effectiveness destroyed.

A second friend, a veteran journalist known for his remarkably courageous stands on certain controversial topics, provided almost exactly the same response to my inquiry. For decades, he’d been almost 100% sure that JFK had died in a conspiracy, but once again had never written a word on the topic for fear that his influence would immediately collapse.

If these two individuals were even remotely representative, I began to wonder whether a considerable fraction, perhaps even a majority, of the respectable establishment had long harbored private beliefs about the JFK assassination that were absolutely contrary to the seemingly uniform verdict presented in the media. But with every such respectable voice keeping so silent, I had never once suspected a thing.

Few other revelations in recent years have so totally overturned my understanding of the framework of reality. Even a year or two later, I still found it very difficult to wrap my head around the concept, as I described in another note to that well-connected friend of mine:

BTW, I hate to keep harping on it, but every time I consider the implications of the JFK matter I’m just more and more astonished.

The president of the US. The heir to one of the wealthiest and most powerful families in America. His brother the top law enforcement officer in the country. Ben Bradlee, one of his closest friends, the fearless crusading editor of one of the nation’s most influential media outlets. As America’s first Catholic president, the sacred icon of many millions of Irish, Italian, and Hispanic families. Greatly beloved by top Hollywood people and many leading intellectuals.

His assassination ranks as one of the most shocking and dramatic events of the 20th century, inspiring hundreds of books and tens of thousands of news stories and articles, examining every conceivable detail. The argument from MSM silence always seemed absolutely conclusive to me.

From childhood, it’s always been obvious to me that the MSM is completely dishonest about certain things and over the last dozen years I’ve become extremely suspicious about a whole range of other issues. But if you’d asked me a couple of years ago whether JFK was killed by a conspiracy, I would have said “well, anything’s possible, but I’m 99% sure there’s absolutely no substantial evidence pointing in that direction since the MSM would surely have headlined it a million times over.”

Was there really a First World War? Well, I’ve always assumed there was, but who really knows?….

 

Our reality is shaped by the media, but what the media presents is often determined by complex forces rather than by the factual evidence in front of their eyes. And the lessons of the JFK assassination may provide some important insights into this situation.

A president was dead and soon afterward his supposed lone assassin suffered the same fate, producing a tidy story with a convenient endpoint. Raising doubts or focusing on contrary evidence might open doors better kept shut, perhaps endangering national unity or even risking nuclear war if the trail seemed to lead overseas. The highest law enforcement officer in the country was the slain president’s own brother, and since he seemed to fully accept that simple framework, what responsible journalist or editor would be willing to go against it? What American center of power or influence had any strong interest in opposing that official narrative?

Certainly there was immediate and total skepticism overseas, with few foreign leaders ever believing the story, and figures such as Nikita Khrushchev, Charles DeGaulle, and Fidel Castro all immediately concluded that a political plot had been responsible for Kennedy’s elimination. Mainstream media outlets in France and the rest of Western Europe were equally skeptical of the “lone gunman theory,” and some of the most important early criticism of U.S. government claims was produced by Thomas Burnett, an expatriate American writing for one of the largest French newsweeklies. But in pre-Internet days, only the tiniest sliver of the American public had regular access to such foreign publications, and their impact upon domestic opinion would have been nil.

Perhaps instead of asking ourselves why the “lone gunman” story was accepted, we should instead be asking why it was ever vigorously challenged, during an era when media control was extremely centralized in establishmentarian hands.

Oddly enough, the answer may lie in the determination of a single individual named Mark Lane, a left-liberal New York City attorney and Democratic Party activist. Although JFK assassination books eventually numbered in the thousands and the resulting conspiracy theories roiled American public life throughout the 1960s and 1970s, without his initial involvement matters might have followed a drastically different trajectory.

From the very first, Lane had been skeptical of the official story, and less than a month after the killing, The National Guardian, a small left-wing national newspaper, published his 10,000 word critique, highlighting major flaws in the “lone gunman theory.” Although his piece had been rejected by every other national periodical, the public interest was enormous, and once the entire edition sold out, thousands of extra copies were printed in pamphlet form. Lane even rented a theater in New York City, and for several months gave public lectures to packed audiences.

ORDER IT NOW

After the Warren Commission issued its completely contrary official verdict, he began working on a manuscript, and although he faced enormous obstacles in finding an American publisher, once Rush to Judgment appeared, it spent a remarkable two years on the national bestseller lists, easily reaching the #1 spot. Such tremendous economic success naturally persuaded a host of other authors to follow suit, and an entire genre was soon established. Lane later published A Citizens Dissent recounting his early struggles to break the total American “media blackout” against anyone contradicting the official conclusion. Against all odds, he had succeeded in sparking a massive popular uprising sharply challenging the narrative of the establishment.

According to Talbot, “By late 1966, it was becoming impossible for the establishment media to stick with the official story” and the November 25, 1966 edition of Life Magazine, then at the absolute height of its national influence, carried the remarkable cover story “Did Oswald Act Alone?” with the conclusion that he probably did not. The next month , The New York Times announced it was forming a special task force to investigate the assassination. These elements were to merge with the media furor soon surrounding the Garrison investigation that began the following year, an investigation that enlisted Lane as an active participant. However, behind the scenes a powerful media counterattack was also being launched at this same time.

ORDER IT NOW

In 2013 Prof. Lance deHaven-Smith, past president of the Florida Political Science Association, published Conspiracy Theory in America, a fascinating exploration of the history of the concept and the likely origins of the term itself. He noted that during 1966 the CIA had become alarmed at the growing national skepticism of the Warren Commission findings, especially once the public began turning its suspicious eyes toward the intelligence agency itself. Therefore, in January 1967 top CIA officials distributed a memo to all their local stations, directing them to employ their media assets and elite contacts to refute such criticism by various arguments, notably including an emphasis on Robert Kennedy’s supposed endorsement of the “lone gunman” conclusion.

This memo, obtained by a later FOIA request, repeatedly used the term “conspiracy” in a highly negative sense, suggesting that “conspiracy theories” and “conspiracy theorists” be portrayed as irresponsible and irrational. And as I wrote in 2016,

Soon afterward, there suddenly appeared statements in the media making those exact points, with some of the wording, arguments, and patterns of usage closely matching those CIA guidelines. The result was a huge spike in the pejorative use of the phrase, which spread throughout the American media, with the residual impact continuing right down to the present day.

This possible cause-and-effect relationship is supported by other evidence. Shortly after leaving The Washington Post in 1977, famed Watergate journalist Carl Bernstein published a 25,000 word Rolling Stone cover story entitled “The CIA and the Media” revealing that during the previous quarter century over 400 American journalists had secretly carried out assignments for the CIA according to documents on file at the headquarters of that organization. This influence project, known as “Operation Mockingbird,” had allegedly been launched near the end of the 1940s by high-ranking CIA official Frank Wisner, and included editors and publishers situated at the very top of the mainstream media hierarchy.

For whatever reason, by the time I came of age and began following the national media in the late 1970s, the JFK story had become very old news, and all the newspapers and magazines I read provided the very strong impression that the “conspiracy theories” surrounding the assassination were total nonsense, long since debunked, and only of interest to kooks on the ideological fringe. I was certainly aware of the enormous profusion of popular conspiracy books, but I never had the slightest interest in looking at any of them. America’s political establishment and its close media allies had outlasted the popular rebellion, and the name “Mark Lane” meant almost nothing to me, except vaguely as some sort of fringe-nut, who very occasionally rated a mention in my mainstream newspapers, receiving the sort of treatment accorded to Scientologists or UFO activists.

Oddly enough, Talbot’s treatment of Lane was also rather dismissive, recognizing his crucial early role in preventing the official narrative from quickly hardening into concrete, but also emphasizing his abrasive personality, and almost entirely ignoring his important later work on the issue, perhaps because so much of it had been conducted on the political fringe. Robert Kennedy and his close allies had similarly boycotted Lane’s work from the very first, regarding him as a meddlesome gadfly, but perhaps also ashamed that he was asking the questions and doing the work that they themselves were so unwilling to undertake at the time. Douglass’s 500 page book scarcely even mentions Lane.

Reading a couple of Lane’s books, I was quite impressed by the enormous role he had seemingly played in the JFK assassination story, but I also wondered how much of my impression may have been due to the exaggerations of a possible self-promoter. Then, on May 13, 2016 I opened my New York Times and found nearly a full page obituary devoted to Lane’s death at age 89, the sort of treatment these days reserved for only the highest-ranking U.S. Senators or major rap stars. And the 1,500 words were absolutely glowing, portraying Lane as a solitary, heroic figure struggling for decades to reveal the truth of the JFK assassination conspiracy against an entire political and media establishment seeking to suppress it.

I read this as a deep apology by America’s national newspaper of record. President John F. Kennedy was indeed killed by a conspiracy, and we are sorry we spent more than a half century suppressing that truth and ridiculing those who uncovered it.

Related Reading:

 
The American Pravda Series
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  1. syonredux says:

    RE: JFK Assassination,

    The book to read is:

    Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy
    by Vincent Bugliosi

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002GKGBM8/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    If you read that and still think that a conspiracy killed JFK, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn for you….

  2. Achilles says:

    So that was the so-called “Magic Bullet” I’d occasionally seen conspiracy-nuts ranting and raving about.

    Stone’s JFK movie was deeply dishonest in how it claimed the bullet must have been ‘magic’ and changed direction in mid-air. In the movie, actor Kevin Costner arranges two chairs, one in front of the other and then proceeds to claim the bullet must have changed direction in mid-air as he walks around the two men seated in the chairs using a pointer illustrating the supposed path of the bullet.

    In real life, in the limousine in which President Kennedy was riding when he was shot there was a dramatic difference in height between the seat Governor Connolly was in and the much higher rear bench seat where Kennedy was seated. You can find photographs of the limo on the Internet and see for yourself.

    A bullet shot from the book depository window into the limousine would have passed through the two men exactly where it was claimed to. It would have caused exactly the wounds it was claimed to.

    The evidence is conclusive that Oswald was the lone shooter and in the aftermath he also killed Officer J.D. Tippett of the Dallas police department.

    Was Oswald part of a conspiracy? That may well be.

    Former CIA Agent Bob Baer was on the right track in his recent History Channel series on this topic, when he explored two questions:

    First, Oswald attempted to assassinate General Walker at the general’s home using a rifle. But Oswald had no car. Who transported him to the scene?

    The second question is, what was Oswald’s escape plan after shooting JFK? Clearly Oswald did not plan to kill himself immediately afterward. Where was he planning to go and who did he expect to help him get there?

    If the public ever gets definitive answers to these questions then we will understand a lot more about whether there was a conspiracy to assassinate JFK and who participated.

  3. Less than a year after the assassination, JFK mistress Mary Meyer, the ex-wife of high-ranking CIA official Cord Meyer, was found shot to death in a Washington DC street-killing with no indications of attempted robbery or rape

    Wait, Seth Rich was Cord Meyer’s homosexual wife?

    • Replies: @Svenm
  4. In all the coverage of JFK’s assassination I never encountered the question of why Oswald was even free to go anywhere after returning to the US after leaving the Soviet Union.

    Not only was Oswald a deserter from the Marines, but he has given over to the Soviets all information he had regarding a radar installation he was assigned to guard. Why was he not tried for treason after getting back?

    The number of loose ends in the lone gunman theory is too many to easily dismiss, but not enough to constitute the proverbial smoking gun.

  5. Ron Unz says:
    @syonredux

    The book to read is:

    Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy
    by Vincent Bugliosi

    Well, I certainly haven’t read the million-plus words in the Bugliosi book (and I’d strongly suspect you haven’t either). But here’s the link to David Talbot’s C-Span Booknotes segment, and jump to the 47:00 mark:

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?198468-1/brothers-hidden-history-kennedy-years

    According to Talbot, Bugliosi claims that Robert Kennedy fully accepted the Warren Commission “lone gunman” theory, even though there’s absolutely overwhelming evidence that he did not.

    As Talbot points out, if Bugliosi could (deliberately?) get something so important so totally wrong, it raises extremely serious questions about the reliability of the other 1600 pages of his gigantic win-by-intimidation text.

    And since you’re a notorious nitwit who has an extremely bad habit of regularly attempting to “prove” your positions by copying-and-pasting enormously long Wikipedia excerpts into your comments, if you try doing that with the entire million-plus words of the Bugliosi book, you’ll get permanently banned…

    • Agree: utu
    • LOL: Biff
  6. syonredux says:
    @Number9

    Bugliosi debunked here:

    https://www.reclaiminghistory.org/

    Interested in buying a bridge?

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Number9
  7. Not Raul says:

    One of the main reasons why “conspiracy theory” is used in the pejorative sense:

    After JFK was killed, there were many articles and books written claiming a conspiracy. And then nothing happened.

    At some level, most Americans are still convinced that the police and prosecutors are looking out for them: If it really were proved that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, of course the conspirators would be prosecuted, right?

    The same is true of the “suicide” of Gary Webb, the man who uncovered Iran Contra. He was found with an alleged suicide note, and two gunshot wounds to the back of the head. The coroner ruled his death a suicide. Case closed.

  8. syonredux says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, I certainly haven’t read the million-plus words in the Bugliosi book.

    Why am I not surprised?

    (and I’d strongly suspect you haven’t either).

    Haven’t read all the CD-ROM full of footnotes, but I did read the rest of the book. See, Ron, I was a JFK assassination buff in my youth….

    But here’s the link to David Talbot’s C-Span Booknotes segment, and jump to the 47:00 mark:

    You’re adorable.

    And since you’re a notorious nitwit

    Gotta work on those insults, Ron.

    who has an extremely bad habit of regularly attempting to “prove” your positions by copying-and-pasting enormously long Wikipedia excerpts into your comments, if you try doing that with the entire million-plus words of the Bugliosi book, you’ll get permanently banned…

    Don’t worry, Ron. I know that you’re not up to the challenge of actually reading Bugliosi’s book.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
    , @Skeptikal
  9. Technomad says:

    The thing is, the kind of high-level people who’re generally accused of wanting to murder poor, poor, innocent JFK both knew that at worst, he’d be gone by January 21, 1969, and knew more than enough about him to come up with a much better plan. Getting “Dr. Feelgood,” with or without his conscious cooperation, to give JFK a “hot shot” would do the trick just fine, as would sending in a “bimbo” with a cyanide injector in her beehive hairdo. First rule of this as in many other things—KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)

    The kinds of scenarios I’ve seen from conspiracy believers are so complicated and iffy that they make Jimmy Carter’s “Operation Eagle Claw” look like a sure-fire, can’t-lose winner. Having Oswald be the only shooter makes sense, and comports with what we know of Oswald’s personality. The men who’ve murdered other presidents were generally attention sponges with an exaggerated view of their importance in the scheme of things. Oswald thought he was rightfully a world-shaking hero, instead of the twerp he was, but compared to Charles Guiteau (who shot James Garfield) Oswald was a shrinking violet.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @eD
    , @Skeptikal
    , @Tim
    , @ians
  10. In criminal investigations the first question always is ‘who benefits’.
    The weird thing in political suspicious deaths is that this question is seldom asked.
    This is the case with, to name a few, Sikorsky, Kennedy, Palme, Anna Lyndh, Hammarskjöld, Diana, Hess, Pearl Harbour, Sept 11, MH17, MH370, Bernadotte, Barschel, there must be more.
    In the Kennedy case, he was killed some two weeks after he had threatened Israel not to sell weapons any more, if they continued building the atomic bomb.

  11. utu says:

    Both patsies Harvey Lee Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan were selected with respect to the legends, real or synthetic, that could be used in the post assassination story spin off. In both cases the legends were to deflect the attention form the actual conspirators. In the case of Oswald it was his defection to the USSR. Involvement of Soviets in the assassination was an option that was not played in the media in the end but it could have been if the lone nut assassin narrative for some reason could not gain the traction. In the case of Sirham his legend as a disgruntled Palestinian who was upset with RFK’s alleged support for Israel was played to the full extent. It was done for two reasons: (1) to decouple JFK assassination from RFK assassination; crazy lone nut Texan American and crazy lone nut Arab Palestinian had only one thing in common: being a crazy lone nut, and (2) paint RFK as a martyr for his pro Israel views. The second spin off was risky because it brought Israel into the story, nevertheless the conspirators thought it was important and took the risk so the could make out of RFK the first (and the only one so far afaik) American politician who died for his pro Israel position. This certainly pushed away any suspicions that Israel might have been involved or could have benefited from his assassination. Sirhan Sirhan legend was also used to foreshadow Palestinian terrorism that began to grow in the wake of the Six Day War of 1967.

  12. Anon[138] • Disclaimer says:

    Try taking a look at ‘Prayer Man’, most likely the image of Lee Harvey Oswald on the front steps of the TSBD building shortly after the shooting. A good introduction can be found at http://22november1963.org.uk/prayer-man-jfk-assassination

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
  13. utu says:

    The 1991 Oliver Stone movie unblocked many Americans to think about and consider the conspiracy behind the assassination. Still four years earlier Stanley Kubrick was reinforcing the meme of Lee Harvey Oswald in Full Metal Jacket:

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  14. Excellent article, Ron. Thankyou for writing this.

    On his deathbed, CIA Agent E. Howard Hunt confessed to being involved in the JFK assasination. He implicated other intelligence agents and Vice-President LBJ. Watch this short video here in which he confesses.

    If anyone wants to understand the JFK assassination in more detail, I highly reccomend watching Oliver Stone’s movie JFK. Here’s a very good part of the movie that explains how Oswald couldn’t have shot JFK, as Oswald was behind JFK and JFK’s head snaps back and to the left. So the true assassin must’ve been in the front (his shot knocked JFK’s head back) – and couldn’t have been Oswald. Watch the video below. “Back and to the left.”

    Here’s an interesting video on how many JFK assassination witnesses died mysterious deaths. Start watching this video from 1:50. Particularly interesting is that on the day when the House tried to get George De Mohrenschildt (a close friend of Oswald and a very prominent socialite in Dallas) to testify, he was found death. The death was ruled a suicide.

    Jack Ruby (the Dallas club owner who assasinated Oswald) claimed that LBJ had JFK assasinated. See video below.

    He also claimed a conspiray was keeping him from speaking. See video below.

    When JFK was assassinated, there was a man with an umbrella who was right next to the president. It was an extremely sunny day in Dallas on that day. Why was the man holding the umbrella? Reporter Bill O’Reilly reports evidence that the “Umbrella Man” may have used the umbrella to fire a dart into JFK. Interestingly, the CIA had developed a dart weapon before that date. See this video below. Starts at 40 seconds.

    Dr. Charles Crenshaw (who treated JFK’s bullet wound and went on to become ) claimed that the entry points of 2 of the wounds he observed were in the front of JFK’s throat. Therefore, the assassin must’ve been in the front and couldn’t have been Oswald. He also claimed that the wound was tampered with to make it seem the bullet came from behind.

    “Dark Journalist” has a very good video on the JFK assasination.

    Here’s an interesting video of Dan Rather lying about the JFK asssination. This newsclip was made shortly after the assasination. Dan Rather told the American viewing public that JFK’s head went forward after he was shot. Later, it would be revealed that Dan Rather had lied that day.

    By the way, you always hear the Warren Commission found that there was no conspiracy and that Oswald was the “lone gunman.” However, in 1976, the House of Representatives investigated the matter and concluded that there was a conspiracy behind the JFK assassination. The assasination involved multiple gunmen. The media never reports this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations

    The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) was established in 1976 to investigate the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. The HSCA completed its investigation in 1978 and issued its final report the following year, concluding that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. In addition to acoustic analysis of a police channel dictabelt recording,[1] the HSCA also commissioned numerous other scientific studies of assassination-related evidence that corroborate the Warren Commission’s findings.[2]

  15. LBJ wanted JFK dead sooner than that.

    Here’s a very persuasive History Channel video on how LBJ had JFK killed.

    Also, the military-industrial complex wanted to escalate the war in Vietnam.

    By the way, it’s sort of interesting how the mysterious Gulf of Tonkin incident led to a huge war in Vietnam.

    This video demonstrates how wildly implausible it was that Oswald pulled the trigger. The FBI couldn’t replicate Oswald’s supposed shooting with their best shooters.

    FBI didn’t find a palm print on Oswald’s rifle. Then, a week later, a Dallas policeman found a palm print on the rifle.

    “We’re through the looking glass people. White is black – and black is white.”

  16. Biff says:
    @Technomad

    One trip to Dealy Plaza, and the Oswald story crumbles. Keep trying though.

    • Replies: @MacNucc11
  17. LondonBob says:

    Of course the highly reputable confessions by Chauncey Holt

    and E Howard Hunt have been studiously ignored.

  18. Brabantian says: • Website

    Nice account of ‘getting woke’ from Ron Unz … quite appreciate the tidbits such as the mention of the once-very-famous Dorothy Kilgallen of the ‘What’s My Line?’ TV show (1950-67)

    Counting the shooting of JFK in 1963, and the shooting-wouding of Ronald Reagan in 1981 by a guy whose father was working for George Bush’s brother (!), plus the two arguably-staged ‘impeachments’ of Richard Nixon (ending 1974) and Bill Clinton (ending 1999), you have a 40% removal-programme hit rate on the previous 10 US Presidents.

    Maybe even more hidden from public knowledge, is the truth of the Watergate ‘Silent Coup’ (Colodny / Gettlin book). Bob Woodward was a US Navy intelligence agent under Admiral Maurer, and when Maurer became head of the US Joint Chiefs and thus the entire US military, Woodward was planted at the CIA’s Washington Post to be the fake ‘brave reporter’ for the coup d’état of ‘Watergate’, entirely a US Joint Chiefs – CIA operation. Bob Woodward was apparently such an idiot re journalism at first he needed lots of remedial coaching to meet minimal standards.

    ‘Deep Throat’ was fiction, the CIA had all the info, the CIA fake ‘leaker’ is another big distraction game getting repeated (Daniel Ellsberg; Deep Throat; Wikileaks Assange who was admitted by both Brzezinski and Netanyahu to be fake, seems he isn’t even really ‘living’ at the London Ecuador Embassy, faker Edward Snowden, first ‘leaking’ to the CIA’s Washington Post, ha!, with Glenn Greenwald posing as the latest Jewish ‘brave journalist’; Mossad-historian-supervised ‘Panama Papers’, etc.)

    Another ‘impeachment’ farce was the Deep State ‘Monica Lewinsky’ nonsense against Bill Clinton, fired up when Bill balked in nausea, at the thought of ordering the war-crime bombing of Serbia that would kill thousands. For Clinton-Lewinsky, another Jewish figure, Matt Drudge, was propped up to play the Woodward role of ‘great investigative reporter’ … When Clinton consented to approve the war as his way to stay alive, he was ‘acquitted’ – the bombings of Serbia began shortly afterwards. Clearly, the Deep State cannot even trust its highly pre-vetted White House occupants.

    Now that the Unz site is on board with collusion in US President removals, we still have to get Unz site writers woke on the laughably fake 9 ‘trips to the moon’ with 6 alleged ‘moon landings’ of 1968-72 … regarding which director Stanley Kubrick even admitted before in March 1999 before he died, that he faked the ‘moon landing’ NASA videos (CIA movie studios, Laurel Canyon, California) … 50th anniversary of the ‘trips to the moon’ starts this December … a good time for Unz debunking

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Paw
  19. Follow the Jack Ruby trail: If Oswald was “just a patsy,” the first thing to do is to investigate on the man who silenced Oswald, thereby preventing any doubts being raised in a court case. Strangely enough, no one (not even Ruby’s biographer Seth Kantor) seem to care that Jack Ruby’s real name was Jacob Leon Rubenstein. Allow me to quote from my earlier article, and add a few details: Ruby, the son of Jewish Polish immigrants, was a member of the Jewish underworld. He was a friend of Los Angeles gangster Mickey Cohen, whom he had known and admired since 1946. Cohen was the successor of the famed Benjamin Siegelbaum, aka Bugsy Siegel, one of the bosses of Murder Incorporated. Cohen was infatuated with the Zionist cause, as he explained in his memoirs: “Now I got so engrossed with Israel that I actually pushed aside a lot of my activities and done nothing but what was involved with this Irgun war”. Mickey Cohen was in contact with Menachem Begin, the former Irgun chief, with whom he even “spent a lot of time,” according to Gary Wean, former detective sergeant for the Los Angeles Police Department. So there is a direct line connecting Jack Ruby, via Mickey Cohen, to the Israeli terrorist ring, and in particular to Menachem Begin, a specialist in false flag terror. We also know that Ruby phoned Al Gruber, a Mickey Cohen associate, just after Oswald’s arrest; no doubt he received then “an offer he couldn’t refuse,” as they say in the underworld. Ruby’s defense lawyer William Kunstler wrote in his memoirs that Ruby told him he had killed Oswald “for the Jews,” and Ruby’s rabbi Hillel Silverman received the same confession when visiting Ruby in jail.
    Probably as a cryptic message to Johnson, whom he expected to pardon him, Ruby made the following odd statements to the Warren Commission: “There will be a certain tragic occurrence happening if you don’t take my testimony and somehow vindicate me so my people don’t suffer because of what I have done.” He said that feared that his act would be used “to create some falsehood about some of the Jewish faith.”
    According to a declassified US State Department document, Israeli Foreign Minister Golda Meir reacted to the news that Ruby had just killed Oswald with this sentence: “Ruby is alive, Oy vaaboy if we get caught!” (quoted in Alan Hart, Zionism, vol. 2, p. 279).

  20. Make it three assassinated Kennedys, with JFK Jr. Hell, make it four, counting his unborn child: On July 20, 1999, the New York Daily News published a piece by Joel Siegel titled: “JFK Jr. Mulled Run for Senate in 2000”. The page seems to have just been deleted, but I had saved it, so I reproduce the first lines : “A private poll in 1997 found that John F. Kennedy Jr. was by far the state’s most popular Democrat, and two friends said yesterday they believed he would have run for office some day. Earlier this year, in one of the best-kept secret in state politics, Kennedy considered seeking the seat of retiring Sen. Daniel Moynihan…” Moynihan was a former Kennedy associate, so it is likely that he would have supported JFK Jr.’s bid. And recall that the same seat had once been held by RFK. So JFK Jr. was walking on his father’s and his uncle’s footsteps. They saw him coming, and decided to eliminate him before his ambitions even became public. Guess who won the seat, after JFK Jr. died in a mysterious plane crash: Hillary Clinton.
    What would JFK Jr. have done next if he had been allowed to walk this path? Well, if you want to know what was on his mind, check some of the covers of his magazine George on https://www.vfiles.com/vfiles/16372 You will see that he was obsessed with “conspiracy theories”:
    In a special “Conspiracy Issue”, October 1998, George published a piece by Oliver Stone, director of the film JFK, titled “Paranoid and Proud of it”. Earlier in December 1996, the cover announces an article on “TWA Conspiracy Theories” (about TWA 800). And in March 1997, another conspiracy theory under the title “Who was behind the killing of Yitzhak Rabin?”. And so on.
    Considering that JFK Jr.’s unborn child also died with him, and if we follow the logic of Ronald Kessler, author of The Sins of the Father: Joseph P. Kennedy and the Dynasty He Founded (1996) (a message to JFK Jr.?), then three generations of Kennedys were punished for “the sins of the father”. That fulfills Exodus 20:5: “I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous god and I punish a parent’s fault in the children, the grandchildren, and the great-grandchildren among those who hate me.”

    • Replies: @utu
    , @MacNucc11
  21. Chase says:
    @Not Raul

    People conspire all the time. A board of directors gathering for their annual meeting is literally a conspiracy: they are conspiring to plan the company’s trajectory over some period of time.

    Do people ever conspire nefariously? Well, what is the first thing investigators will do when looking into a company like Enron? That’s right, they will subpoena email records, because despite the negative connotation surrounding the term “conspiracy theory,” people implicitly sense and really know that *this is exactly the kind of shit that happens all the time*.

    For example, the Seth Rich murder, as its official story goes is literally a conspiracy. Two MS-13 members conspired to rob Mr. Rich while he was walking home from a bar. Why is it that people will believe that two people will conspire over a few hundred bucks, but refuse to believe powerful people will conspire over tens or hundreds of billions? Only because of media programming.

    Once you unplug from the Matrix, so much that never made sense comes into clarity. Thanks, Mr. Unz for your tireless work and financial contributions to the American Pravda series. I’ve learned so much and it has been integral to my eyes being opened over the last four years.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    , @c matt
    , @MacNucc11
  22. kikl says:

    I think we all know the JFK-assassination was a conspiracy. Oswald was the patsy.

    But, we do not know for sure who participated in the conspiracy.

    The report by the Warren commission was a cover up. CIA Director McCone was “complicit” in a Central Intelligence Agency “benign cover-up” by withholding information from the Warren Commission, according to a report by the CIA Chief Historian David Robarge released to the public in 2014.[24] According to this CIA report, CIA officers had been instructed to give only “passive, reactive, and selective” assistance to the commission, in order to keep the commission focused on “what the Agency believed at the time was the ‘best truth’ — that Lee Harvey Oswald, for as yet undetermined motives, had acted alone in killing John Kennedy.”

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/jfk-assassination-john-mccone-warren-commission-cia-213197

    Witholding evidence in order to cover up a crime is usually done because of involvement in the crime. Thus, it is most likely that the CIA was involved in the Kennedy Assassination.

    • Replies: @renfro
  23. bj says:

    What evil consumes the innocents?

    What witch stages these mind control spectacles?

    I add one bread crumb to the Ron Unz Trail,

    through the deep dark forest of the fairy tale of our lives.

    No matter who you are, we have a vector for you!

    “Lane, it should be noted, was in U.S. Army intelligence in post-war Germany in 1945-47. This is the branch that became the C.I.A. after the war. Lane was paid some $5 million in legal fees by the Liberty Lobby, according to a veteran of the lobby. None of this is widely known among the people who read and support American Free Press. It is important because it shows how a Zionist Jew from the C.I.A. can actually control a movement that purports to be working for the American patriot audience. ”

    http://www.bollyn.com/the-liberty-lobbys-mark-lane-and-the-jonestown-massacre/

    • Replies: @JonC
  24. Ron’s suspicions may be correct. However, I am bothered by two things left out of his article: the identity of the conspirators and their motivation. What was President Kennedy doing that had to be stopped? Fifty-five years have passed without any conspirator’s deathbed confession. Gerald Posner’s Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of J. F. K. seemed convincing to me when I read it many years ago. One fact that struck me as specially persuasive was that the kindly Quaker woman who was sheltering Marina Oswald and baby saw an ad in the paper for a job at the Book Depository building and pointed it out to Oswald who applied for the job and got it sometime before the route of the Kennedy drive past the building was chosen and published. Perhaps Mr. Unz might share his opinion of Posner’s book with us.

  25. Iris says:
    @syonredux

    Take the pain to read actual eyewitness testimonies from medical personnel who attended President Kennedy when taken to Parkland hospital after being shot.

    That may stop you from embarrassing yourself defending the ludicrous lone gunman theory.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  26. justagoon says:

    Hmmm…at this rate you’ll question whether 19 Arabs with box cutters crashed planes into buildings by about 2049. /sarc

    Well better late than never I guess.

    • LOL: utu
  27. Wonder if anyone read the Warren Report.
    Reading it I got the same feeling as, in the seventies, when I still believed mainstream history, reading Churchill’s memoirs: too good to be true.
    Harold Weisberg, ‘Whitewash – the report on the Warren Report’, 1965, 1966, New York tears Warren to shreds.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    , @Paul Jolliffe
  28. It is a sad comment on mental pliability of US public that someone as perspicacious as Ron Unz could have for so long subscribed to “single gunman” (alright, he was not single, Oswald was married) “theory”.

    Whatever one may think of Stone’s JFK, he is doubtless mostly correct in this short interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unpZuynt4Gw

  29. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    I came of age much more recently and my encounters with JFK and RFK’s assasinations were all about supposed conspiracies. If anything, there seems to be a conspiracy to make you think there’s a conspiracy.

    Furthermore, it is pretty easy to kill someone so, if there was a conspiracy to kill those two, goodness knows why the conspirators would not just use more subtle methods…

    All of these types of theories always seem to end up with their hypothesiser pointing out inconsistencies in the historical account of incredibly complex events while, at best, only proposing a much more inconsistent alternative.

    Conspirator super genius: how shall we kill him?

    Conspirator normal: we could give him an aneurysm so he dies in his sleep in the middle of the night. It would be utterly untraceable and medically unsuspicious. Indeed, if we do it when he has one of his girls round, then that will stop further questions.

    Conspirator super genius: no, we should stage an assasination in the open. With bullets that might miss, a patsy who might blab or get away and our target could easily survive and take revenge. It will also make everyone suspicious and will need endless effort to keep quiet.

    Conspirator B: wtf…

  30. CF says:

    If you examine the first page of JFK’s death certificate, (easily done on your search engine) you will see that the President died of “gunshot wounds to the head and neck.” and that he was killed by a “High Velocity Rifle”. At that time a High Velocity Rifle had a muzzle velocity speed of 2500/600 feet per second, now I believe it is up to 3000 feet per second.

    The only weapon associated with Lee Harvey Oswald on the day of the assassination was a Manlicher Carcano 6.5mm as agreed by the Warren Commission, Pozner (Case Closed) and Bugliosi. This rifle is not only notoriously inaccurate but has a muzzle velocity of 2000 feet per second and therefore could not have inflicted the wounds to JFK’s head and neck that killed him.

    Oswald may have tried to kill the President (personally I doubt it) from the sixth floor of the Book Depository overlooking Dealy Plaza but he didn’t because JFK was killed by a High Velocity weapon and Oswald didn’t have one.

    Case Closed.

    • Replies: @niteranger
    , @gp
    , @Anon
  31. Sceptical says:

    My money is on the New Orleans mob boss Carlos Marcello. RFK made a hell of an enemy when he had the most powerful mobster in America deported to Guatemala. John Davis, 1st cousin to Jackie O, wrote a book about this(Mafia Kingfish). More recently, Stefana Vaccara wrote about this possibility (Carlos Marcello: The Man Behind the JFK Assassination). Here is a presentation by Vaccara : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHdS4mpoC0# Interesting connection to the strange death of Dorothy Kilgallen: she was investigating the Marcello network in New Orleans at the time of her death.

  32. Number9 says:
    @syonredux

    Interested in buying a bridge?

    Your inability to address those rebuttals to Bugliosi’s prosecutor’s brief — in which he “cherry-picks the evidence, ignores the most compelling counter-evidence, and sets up straw-man arguments to knock down” — is noted. I accept your capitulation.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  33. @Anonymouse

    Gerald Posner? LOL!

    • Replies: @Anon
  34. @Tyrion 2

    Furthermore, it is pretty easy to kill someone so, if there was a conspiracy to kill those two, goodness knows why the conspirators would not just use more subtle methods…

    It was a public execution by what is now frequently referred to as the “deep state”. Public executions are not intended to be secret; they linger somewhere on the line between “we probably don’t know” & ” we, of course, all know”.

    They are meant to intimidate & set the dominant trends not only in public discourse, but in the way people feel & live their lives in broader society.

    Otherwise, JFK & RFK could have been poisoned, dealt with by traffic accidents etc.

  35. In considering whether or not there was a conspiracy to kill JFK on Nov. 22, 1963, two hard facts are paramount :

    1) The average store bought weight of the “pristine” bullet that entered Kennedy’s back, from behind, was 162 grains. The bullet, which was found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital, was only slightly misshapen at its end and weighted 158 grains and free of all blood matter. According to the Warren Commission, this 158 grain bullet hit Kennedy in the back, traveled upwards and popped out of the front of his neck, then traveled downwards, hitting Gov. Connelly in the back, then exited at Connelly’s right nipple, then hit the radius bone of Connelly’s right wrist, and then finally bounced off Connelly’s left thigh, near the groin. (According to the Parkland surgeon, who operated on Connelly on Nov. 22, pre-op X-Rays showed that Connelly’s left thigh was full of tiny pieces of shrapnel. The 158 grain bullet was an obvious plant on that Parkland stretcher.

    2) On Nov. 23, 1963 at 10:45PM, “lone’” gunman Oswald tried to telephone John Hurt, who lived in Raleigh, NC. Hurt’s most recent job in 1963 was that of a “contractor” for the US Defense Dept. There were two operators on the Dallas County jail switchboard that night. One of the operators claimed, in 1970 or 1971, that the Secret Service would not let Oswald’s call go through to John Hurt in Raleigh. Oswald would be truly alone until Ruby shot him the next morning. Then Oswald was silent and dead. No more desperate telephone calls to employees of the Deep State for Lee Harvey!

    • Replies: @Anon
  36. Sunbeam says:

    I wish you’d take a look at the sheer numbers of deaths that have occurred around the Clintons.

    Not analyze them, or write about them. But just to see if having that many deaths happening in their immediate “Kevin Bacon Space” isn’t patently absurd.

    In the end, everyone dies. But you just don’t see the numbers I’ve seen in the various lists I’ve seen unless everyone is old and natural causes are coming into play.

    Or your social network is in the Hood.

    • Replies: @Thim
  37. utu says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    then three generations of Kennedys were punished for “the sins of the father”

    And the sin was, at least one of them: “father Joseph had been a supporter of the Nazi-appeasing British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.”

    Umbrella man

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrella_man_(JFK_assassination)

    JFK assassination: Why suspicions still linger about ‘Umbrella Man’

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/1122/JFK-assassination-Why-suspicions-still-linger-about-Umbrella-Man

    Louie Steven Witt, aka Umbrella Man, offered one to Congress when he voluntarily came forward to testify – and a peculiar one it was. In his 1978 testimony, he said he had known nothing about the controversy surrounding his rain gear. The umbrella had indeed been intended to convey a message, Mr. Witt told lawmakers, but to Kennedy himself, not to any co-conspirators in an assassination plot. He called his actions that day “a bad joke.”

    But the photos and film footage of Umbrella Man’s actions seem to many to defy explanation – and so they interpret the images themselves.

    “One theory is that the assassins wanted Kennedy to know (in his final seconds) exactly why he was being killed,” writes blogger Croft Randle. “The umbrella symbolized Kennedy’s … refusal to provide a covering ‘umbrella’ of air support during the CIA’s failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. The term had been widely used and the significance of the raised umbrella would have instantly been understood by Kennedy.”

    In director Oliver Stone’s 1991 movie, “JFK,” the Umbrella Man is a signal man. Fox News commentator Bill O’Reilly cut his reportorial teeth on the Umbrella Man story.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
    , @JonC
  38. j2 says:
    @Achilles

    One problem with the magic bullet theory is that Connally did not believe in it and he was rather close to the event. If JFK got shot in the Zapruder frame 225 (to the back but maybe not to the neck) and Connally maybe has blood in the frame 241, then there is some time for him to have been shot. It is true that Connally’s shoulder goes up in 225, but that can be from the shot noise. The magic bullet is theoretically possible but I find it remarkable that it did not turn sideways in Connally’s body after slowing down with so many passes. I think it passes as some kind of magic. it was a theory proposed in order to explain the assassination with three shots from Oswald, not a theory derived from evidence.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  39. Ever go to Dallas, Ron? I was down for two weeks for a school with Nortel in 1984. I spent the weekend between classes in Dallas, snooping about. I spent a day down there at Dealy, the Grassy Knoll (a tiny strip of grass barely the size of a suburban front lawn with a Memorial of some sort at the top) and I bought a 6 dollar ticket to the Book Depository museum on the 6th floor, complete with the cardboard boxes Oswald supposedly hid behind. While the ‘nest’ itself was glassed in, they allowed the view toward the street to Oswald’s right and it was indeed a tiny window of opportunity. I believe the car was past Oswald’s view when the shots that killed Kennedy were fired based on Lane’s work. Plus, the weapon was a POS. He would have had to be hanging from his toenails out that window to have even SEEN the car, let alone shoot at it. From the museum, convinced now that the School Book Depository story was bullshit, it was off to the scene on the ground. Armed with Mark Lane’s Rush to Judgement, I went to the Knoll, the overpass and examined the curbing where there were storm drains in the street that would have concealed the shooter that provided the star of the Zapruder film, the up-and-to-the-left head shot.

    All around the Plaza are perches with EZ-escape routes that still exist on that Plaza. Oswald, if he had killed Kennedy, would never have selected the 6th floor of the Depository, he would have used another perch. MAYBE at the hard left turn at the Plaza, had Kennedy been shot THERE, in the face, I’d buy the Depository story, but Kennedy got his AFTER the turn and while headed down the hill toward the overpass. By then it was too late for the 6th floor of the Depository. It was on the ground that were the best lines of sight, the best routes of egress. If I was going to shoot Kennedy in that day and age at that moment, that’s exactly how I would have done it. It’s how it was DONE. The Oswald/Book Depository caper is fiction, always was. No one would have selected that window from which to shoot Kennedy, in particular a rifleman from the Marines. But in this fiction, exit wounds are entrance wounds, one bullet did the work of several, the witnesses and anyone prominent all dead inside fo a few months and years. And of course 5 years later, RFK, dead of more magic bullets, from a puny, eight shot .22 that created 20 holes in people, walls and ceiling panels.

    If you’ve ever hunted, if you’ve ever fired a rifle with a scope and if you ever go to Dallas and look things over you’ll understand that Oswald wasn’t the guy, no way, no how. The who of Kennedy’s murder can be debated. Mob, MIC, CIA, pissed off Cubans, Fidel, rogues, the Soviets, name the shooter, but the shooter didn’t do it from the 6th floor.

    Go to Dallas. walk the walk, step off the distances, read the clock on the shots, go to the museum. If you haven’t done so, do so. I’m a pretty reasonable guy, happy to come to whatever conclusions are reasonable. Oswald’s perch isn’t. Unless you have mush for brains.

  40. Iris says:

    The “magic bullet” theory is mocked because it is simply grotesque; nobody with a scientific background can ever believe this cornerstone evidence of the Warren report and of the “lone gunman” theory.

    Link below is to a sketch, showing the miraculous bullet changing its trajectory in both vertical and horizontal directions, as a controlled drone would do.

    http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=78YYjuADdv3YutdWIyOYmJM5tm0Zxrvol3sywaAHBAlHN$rjGwyADZhGTgRYwhVvE0$uXvBjavsllACLNr6VhLEUIm2tympBeeq1Fwi7sIigrCfKm_F3DhYfWov3omce$8CAqP1xDAFoSAgEcS6kSQ–&CONTENTTYPE=application/pdf&CONTENTDISPOSITION=ptr-gx-jfk2-111713.pdf

    After causing 7 wounds and breaking 3 bones, the “magic bullet” exited unscathed, and was found intact on a Parkland hospital sketcher.
    The Warren commission was never able to replicate the bullet’s pristine condition: similar bullet shot through a cadaver’s wrist came out completely deformed.

    • Replies: @Iris
  41. utu says:
    @Anonymouse

    However, I am bothered by two things left out of his article: the identity of the conspirators and their motivation.

    Here is one and very strong possibility for you.

    If we reject the official versions of JFK and RFK assassinations and assume they were results of conspiracies with Oswald and Sirhan as active players or patsies then we must go by the qui bono, cui prodest, cuius bonum legal principle which certainly will not prove who were the conspirators but will point to the most likely conspirators.

    In case of JFK it is pretty obvious that Israel was the greatest beneficiary of his death because of JFK determination to stop Israel’s nuclear program. Some correspondence of JFK with PM’s of Israel is available on line. Israel defense doctrine was formulate to be based on what later was called Samson Option. In 1963 Israel still cooperated with France on its secret nuclear program.

    JFK definitively was set on stopping Israel nuclear program which Israel was conducting in secret cooperation with France. After strong letter on May 18, 1963 letter PM Ben Gurion preferred to resign rather than to answer the letter:

    https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/When-Ben-Gurion-said-no-to-JFK
    Finally, Kennedy had enough, and in a personal letter dated May 18, 1963, the president warned that unless American inspectors were allowed into Dimona (meaning the end of any military activities), Israel would find itself totally isolated. Rather than answering, Ben-Gurion abruptly resigned. Kennedy’s repeated emphasis on America’s “deep commitment to the security of Israel” was all well and good, but, as seen after Egypt’s sudden expulsion of UN peacekeepers, Israel could not depend on anyone – even the US.

    Ben-Gurion’s successor, Levi Eshkol received Kennedy’s next letter, which upped the pressure, warning that the American commitment and support of Israel “could be seriously jeopardized.”

    At the same time RFK as AG was considering forcing pro Israel lobbies to register as Foreign Agents. The last before JFK death communication from DOJ was on 10/11/1963: DOJ Demanded for AZC Registration “the Department expects a response from you within 72 hours with regard to this matter.” Six days later

    http://www.israellobby.org/azcdoj/
    “Judge Rifkind then made a plea for no registration, stating it was the opinion of most of the persons affiliated with the Council that such registration would be so publicized by the American Council on Judaism that it would eventually destroy the Zionist movement…he did not believe his clients would file any papers or sign any papers indicating that the organization was an agent of a foreign principal. I told him that any such information or material that is supplied on that basis would be made part of the Department’s public files available for inspection by the public…”

    In DOJ internal memo on 4/30/1964 before replacing RFK as AG with Nicholas Katzenbach the following was stated: “This is the most blatant stall we have encountered. Do you mind suggesting what we do next because all of us here would call their records before a grand jury.” RFK resigns as AG in September 1964. When Katzenbach became acting AG and then AG exchanges between Jewish lobby and DOJ continued but no action was taken by DOJ. Eventually on n 11/27/1967, four years and five days after JFK’s death AIPAC applies for a federal tax exemption. The lobby has won.

    As far as RFK is concerned the conspirators could not allow him to become president, period. His assassination is predicated on conspiracy of JFK assassination and subsequent cover up. If we assume that Sirhan was indeed ‘hypnotized’ patsy conspirators seem to overdid the cover story and the created legend (though it worked for most people who bought the story) by trying to bring attention to Palestinians who were upset with RFK’s alleged strong pro-Israel stance. The problem with the story is that RFK did not demonstrate that he had strong pro-Israeli position. Anyway, most people got a message that RFK got killed because he was pro-Israel, so certainly Israel was off the suspect list, right?

    Since the two assassinations dozens of theories were floated, including the most ridiculous ones, like that Onassis was behind it, which got public exposure often in MSM. The only conspiracy theory that can’t get any traction in MSM is the one linked to Israel.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Wizard of Oz
  42. To see who killed JFK get the book JFK the CIA and Vietnam by Col. L. Fletcher Prouty can be had on amazon.com and watch his videos on y0utube.

    • Replies: @seeing-thru
  43. @utu

    ” crazy lone nut Texan American”

    Minor disagreement with your otherwise agreeable comment. Oswald was never really portrayed as a nutty Texan American (Charles Whitman may have been), he was portrayed as a commie traitor, which at the time, was the most egregious sin possible.

    These days however, being a Texan American is worse than being a commie traitor by an order of magnitude.

    • Replies: @utu
  44. Heros says:

    My red pilling occurred when I finally looked deeper into the Building 7 collapse. Up until that point, I could never believe that a conspiracy so grand could exist to pull off 9/11 or the Kennedy assassinations. The freefall collapse of Building 7 was the smoking gun that I needed to prove conspiracy does exists.

    I mention this because on a previous thread some of those UNZ readers, still bitterly clinging to the CIA narrative, were arguing something to the effect that: “just because one little piece is proved wrong doesn’t mean that there is narrative collapse”.

    I disagree, once the official propaganda organs have been caught in such as malicious and criminal lie as covering up for 9/11 or the Kennedy assassinations, then their entire narrative and all their credibility collapses too. From then on, each datapoint along the narrative’s path has to be re-proven without the benefit of power of the narrative or the benefit of the doubt.

    We also then have to discard the narrative back to the point that we can be satisfied that the truth had been told and that “consent” and “social contract” had some kind of meaning. The problem is that likely there has never been a point in time where there wasn’t a narrative that was made of lies. In that sense we are all Chinese coolies now, because centuries of lying narratives have left us unable to find the truth.

    • Replies: @Anon
  45. Iris says:
    @utu

    “Some correspondence of JFK with PM’s of Israel is available on line.”

    From a letter of President Kennedy to Levi Eshkol, Israeli PM, on July 5th 1963,with regard to activities at the Dimona nuclear plant:

    ” As I wrote Mr. Ben-Gurion, this Government’s commitment to and support of Israel could be seriously jeopardized if it should be thought that we were unable to obtain reliable information on a subject as vital to the peace as the question of Israel’s effort in the nuclear field.”

    Very significantly, the threats made by President Kennedy in his letter seem to have been “re-classified” and are redacted from the official archives available to the public.

    https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1961-63v18/d289

    Why is official correspondence of President Kennedy with Israeli authorities still classified?
    What is there to hide, 55 years on?

    • Replies: @utu
  46. @utu

    “Still four years earlier Stanley Kubrick was reinforcing the meme of Lee Harvey Oswald in Full Metal Jacket:”

    Sorry utu, not stalking you, really. In this case I think Kubrick was more just illustrating what most people would have still believed in 1967.

    A better example of Kubrick’s anti-military disingenuous can be found in that same scene, where he basically is suggesting the Marine Corps celebrates and teaches its recruits to worship murderous psychopaths who ambush non-combatants. As a former Marine myself, I can tell you this is false.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Sunbeam
  47. Worth mentioning that Stone’s JFK is based on the following book.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/301804.Crossfire

  48. Jake says:

    Ron,

    I am surprised that you did not know The Magic Bullet theory at least from Seinfeld. and The Magic Loogie.

  49. @syonredux

    I don’t know why Unz would want to rudely attack one of his most prolific and intelligent commentators for not much reason. (I guess the original Brooklyn Bridge comment by Syonredux was also kind of rude, but cliche-based rudeness is less offensive than a direct personal attack.)

    Unz seems to have a Cochranesque level of disdain for those who disagree with him, but without the same level of brilliance to back it up. (I have no doubt he is an intelligent man, but not with the same record as Cochran.)

    • Replies: @utu
    , @ians
  50. Anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:

    Thanks for the article Ron. I never knew about Mark Lane and his pioneering work.

    I came across a story about Mary Pinchot Meyer earlier this year. It went something along the lines of: Timothy Leary introduced her to LSD and the mystical experiences that can result; Meyer becomes JFK’s mistress and introduces him to LSD; this results in JFK’s transformation from a Cold Warrior to more of a pacifist with an associated change in foreign policy; this puts him at odds with the Deep State and ultimately gets him killed. It has a bizarre ring of truth to it to me. (see https://www.amazon.com/Marys-Mosaic-Conspiracy-Kennedy-Pinchot/dp/1510708928 )

    Speaking of conspiracy theories, I submit that 9/11 is the JFK assassination of my generation. The brazenness was pretty incredible but they also thought they could get away with it through control of the mainstream media. My theory is that unlike in Mark Lane’s time, the widespread availability of the internet allowed individuals to communicate, exchange information, and form groups to challenge the official government narrative right from the beginning. (see for example Engineers and Architects for 9/11 Truth.) Again, it is one of those things intelligent people don’t want to discuss publicly for fear of losing credibility, however, a decent amount of people still do believe.

    The challenge really is “confirmation bias” and people’s trust in the government. If you trust the government, these ideas are nothing but conspiracy theories touted by individuals with tin foil hats. If you don’t trust the government, for example if you are educated enough to know about all the bad things the CIA has done or the CIA’s involvement with the media, it gives you a different worldview and these things become much more plausible.

    • Replies: @utu
  51. Cortes says:
    @Chase

    I agree totally. Any partnership is a conspiracy.

    • Replies: @Wally
  52. “Kevin Costner starred as a crusading District Attorney named Jim Garrison—presumably fictional—whose investigation broke the assassination conspiracy wide open before the subtle tentacles of the Deep State finally managed to squelch his prosecution”

    I stopped reading there.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
  53. utu says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    But every repetition of the meme that is non ironic reinforces it. And if the objective of Kubrick was to portray MC as the breeding ground of killers by using HLO as an illustration then it was definitively non ironic reinforcement of the meme.

    In 1987 when the film was made during 2nd Reagan term already after the glorious victory in Grenada by the US military it was pronounced loud and wide that the Vietnam War syndrome was finally teated and buried. Kubrick’s film was one of the first to show American soldier and Vietnam in new context.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  54. utu says:
    @James Kabala

    You think Cochran is brilliant? I haven’t noticed.

  55. Mulegino1 says:

    Like all such official stories, the “lone nut theory” of the Kennedy assassination is a narrative constructed from the top down by official pronouncement as opposed to a fact and evidence based investigation and legal due process. The official conclusion is reached within a day- or even in hours- with a convenient cookie cutter suspect as lone perpetrator or mastermind (as in 9/11). There is no trial according to the proper rules of evidence, only a “commission” which offers a vacuous official pronouncement which the corporate Mockingbird media immediately proclaims as definitive and ironclad.

  56. eD says:
    @Technomad

    “The thing is, the kind of high-level people who’re generally accused of wanting to murder poor, poor, innocent JFK both knew that at worst, he’d be gone by January 21, 1969, and knew more than enough about him to come up with a much better plan.”

    This is an excellent point, and I will add that Kennedy’s health was bad enough that there was a good chance of persuading him to just not run for re-election. He had a high likelihood of dying in his late 40s or early 50s from natural causes. One of the books Ron cites, “Conspiracy Theory in America”, in one of its less persuasive passages, argues that the conspirators acted because the lack at the time of what became the 25th Amendment meant there was no way of removing a mentally and physically impaired President other than killing him!

    However, the counter-argument is that the ambush in Dallas was done not so much to kill Kennedy, but to send a warning to Presidents about what would happen to them if they crossed the Deep State. This may have included Kennedy himself, the intent may not have been to kill him. In that case it would make sense to have a sniper from a poor vantage points take a few shots at his motorcade, in a way where it was obvious to most intelligent people that it was not just some “lone nut” but with enough plausible liability that leads/ breadcrumbs would not be followed up. Kennedy was been smart enough to get the message. The “magic bullet” really happened and was just a ridiculously unlucky shot, given that the intention was to not actually kill Kennedy.

    One thing not often pointed out in these discussions but which is relevant is that there has been no attempt to assassinate a President in the last 37 years , since 1981 (counting instances where shots were actually fired). Between 1865 and 1981 there were 7 such attempts, a rate of one every 16-17 years, with 4 taking place in the roughly 50 years between 1932 and 1981. At some point people just stopped trying. Of course modern Presidents function in a security bubble.

  57. Sunbeam says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    I’m not a fan of Kubrick, nor do I really care for most of his movies.

    But Dr. Strangelove was funny as hell.

  58. utu says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    You are correct that he was not necessarily seen as a Texan. Though Texas and Dallas got really stigmatized. Some people, say on the East Coast, would prefer not to go there for any reason.

    • Agree: MikeatMikedotMike
  59. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    My theory is that unlike in Mark Lane’s time, the widespread availability of the internet allowed individuals to communicate, exchange information, and form groups to challenge the official government narrative right from the beginning.

    This is correct but the side effect of it is that the generation of junk and disinformation theories also increased and happened much faster. The chaos within the so called truther movement is pretty complete. You now, Sustein’s cognitive infiltration. Theories like the one about LSD that create noise only and deflect form looking at some possible culprits, not related to Cuba or Vietnam.

  60. @syonredux

    Bugliosi is a Contradiction. His Helter Skelter nonsense and his prosecution of Charles Manson was itself a Wackadoo Conspiracy Theory and he used it to put a man behiond bars who never killed anyone and who never ordered a killing of anyone. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not apologizing for the creep Manson, but Bugliosi’s case was a largely unsubstantiated, speculative, wild, Wackadoodle Conspiracy Theory, so, therefore, Bugliosi simply has no credibility.

    Personally, I feel there is much more to Charles Manson and The Manson Family than meets the eye, but it doesn’t resemble Bugliosi’s nonsensical Conspiracy Theory.

    And, the irony is, we got Helter Skelter anyway, didn’t we, and The American National Security State is Bugliosi’s The Manson Family on Steroids. Last time I checked, Manson didn’t murder 3 to 5 million Vietnamese.

  61. @eD

    One thing not often pointed out in these discussions but which is relevant is that there has been no attempt to assassinate a President in the last 37 years , since 1981 (counting instances where shots were actually fired). Between 1865 and 1981 there were 7 such attempts, a rate of one every 16-17 years, with 4 taking place in the roughly 50 years between 1932 and 1981. At some point people just stopped trying. Of course modern Presidents function in a security bubble.

    The National Security State became more proficient at neutralizing the threat of an independent, objective Executive. Starting with Nixon. They ran him out of office with the Watergate Ruse. Reagan was the first POTUS completely handled — a mere face to The Shadow Government really running The Show. Obama was the first CIA POTUS from womb to Oval Office and Trump is the first true Clown In Chief. Twitter could have shut down Trump’s Twitter Account and prevented him from being The National Spectacle that he is, but instead, he can Troll the Nation with impunity. The National Security State wants this. They want Trump for this time just as they wanted Obama for his time. For what reason is the more difficult question. For what reason does The National Security State want Trump for this time? Is it in cahoots with Russia and Israel to crush America for good and devour what remains from the inside out? Maybe. It’s an answer that fits whereas not much else does.

    • Replies: @edNels
  62. You’ve got to be kidding me…

  63. @Hamlet's Ghost

    “Why was he [Oswald] not tried for treason after getting back?”

    Because he was part of James Angleton’s false defector program in the late 1950s. Oswald was a CIA asset at least as far back as his time in the Marine Corps. Some researchers connect him to David Ferrie’s Louisiana Civil Air Patrol in the early 1950s.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  64. Wally says:
    @Cortes

    Indeed. “Conspiracies” are proven every day in courts of law around the world.

  65. @Hamlet's Ghost

    When I log on to Unz now, I get diverted to an odd webage that says its checking my browser. Then my post from last night produced a blank white page and never showed up here. Same thing this morning using a different computer. Just a FYI to whoever.

    Oswald is the smoking gun. The only reason Oswald was never arrested after returning to the USA must be because he was a CIA plant. The Soviets were not fooled, so Oswald came home, then got a government job in Texas too? As Col. Prouty pointed out, one could buy a rifle at a gun store without showing any ID back then. Why didn’t Oswald do that, instead of buying a crappy rifle mail order that could be traced to him? And why did he shoot that policeman much later? And how did they “find” him in a movie theater? And now we recently learned the FBI lost the fingerprints from the rifle.

    Here are more detailed posts from my blog:

    Dec 8, 2009 – Lee Harvey Oswald

    One of the little known oddities of the 1963 assassination of President Kennedy is Oswald’s strange life, as partly described here:

    “…in October 1959 he became the first Marine to defect to the Soviet Union. In Moscow, he delivered a letter stating: “I affirm that my allegiance is to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.” Not only did he publicly renounce his American citizenship, but he told the U.S. consul that he intended to turn over to the Soviet Union military secrets that he had acquired while serving in the Marines [he was a radar operator], adding that he had data of “special interest” to the Russians. Since he indeed had exposure to military secrets such as the U-2 spy plane, his defection had serious espionage implications. Oswald thus had not only compromised the secret data he had come in contact with in the Marines, but put himself firmly in the hands of another country. He was now completely dependent on Russia for financial support, legal status and protection.

    Before disappearing into the Soviet hinterland for a year, Oswald spelled out his operational creed in a long letter to his brother. From Moscow, he wrote presciently of his willingness to commit murder for a political cause: “I want you to understand what I say now, I do not say lightly, or unknowingly, since I’ve been in the military …. In the event of war I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American Government –”, and then ominously added for emphasis, “Any American.” His willingness to act as an assassin was now known to anyone who read this letter, which included not only his Russian hosts but American intelligence, since his letter was intercepted by the CIA and microfilmed. Oswald returned from the Soviet Union in June 1962, joined by his Russian wife Marina, and settled in Dallas.”

    The author continues with his story, but wait one minute! Oswald deserted from the Marines, defected to the Soviets, and openly bragged that he gave them top secret information, which some suspect helped the Soviets shoot down the U-2 with Gary Francis Powers. Then Oswald simply “returns home” and is not arrested and imprisoned for decades! Oh, he wants a visa to bring his Russian wife too! No problem, you Marine Corps deserter and traitor!

    Dec 18, 2017 – Another JFK Coup Fact Revealed

    Congress created the five-member Assassination Records Review Board in 1992 as part of a law requiring the release of all Kennedy assassination documents within 25 years. The law authorized the president in office in 2017 to block releases if he deems it would harm US intelligence, law enforcement, military, or diplomatic interests. President Trump had no plans to block anything and the Deep State threw a fit and refused to obey the law. To avoid a confrontation, Trump allowed a few more months to “review” most files. Just under a third of the materials were released on December 15th, an estimated 85,000 pages worth, which had long been categorized as irrelevant to the JFK assassination.

    Among these “irrelevant” documents is a July 1978 memo to an attorney on the staff of the House Select Committee on Assassinations. It stated that the FBI was unable to locate the original fingerprints lifted from the rifle found at the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. Dallas Police turned those over a few days after the assassination and never got them back. Top FBI officials told House investigators that finding the prints would be a “mammoth research effort” and refused. So either the FBI bungled its most important case by losing key evidence or someone intentionally destroyed that evidence because the fingerprints on the rifle didn’t match Oswald’s.

    Last October, President Donald Trump gave agencies six more months to finish this 25+ year review of material that might damage national security. Upcoming deadlines:

    March 12: FBI, CIA and other agencies must report to the archives any material they want withheld
    March 26: National Archives makes its recommendations to the president on what material warrants further withholding
    April 26: The president’s deadline for release of all remaining records.
    The best stuff will never be released because the truth about the JFK coup will never be revealed, unless Trump sends General Kelly and US Marines to these federal offices to rough up some people.

    UPDATE: The Deep State refused orders, so Trump kicked the can down the road another three years.

    • Replies: @Chase
    , @Anon
    , @Anon
    , @prusmc
    , @MacNucc11
  66. schrub says:

    Ron:

    Easily the most interesting persons connected with Jim Garrison and the Kennedy assassination is still alive and kicking and near you in California. Who is he?

    None other than Mort Sahl the godfather of all modern improvisational standup comedians and a personal friend of John Kennedy. He is still alive, alert, and kicking at 90+ years old. I absolutely guarantee that he will be a truly invaluable source of info about the Kennedy assassination. (If memory serves me correctly, he worked with Garrison in New Orleans for over two years at great personal financial and professional costs trying to unravel this case.)

    He still performs weekly up in Mill Valley just north of San Francisco. He is WELL worth a visit. Don’t wait, however. Mort is quite frail. His mind is still razor sharp however and his memory is still phenomenal.

    http://www.mortsahlofficial.com/

  67. Amanda says:

    James Fetzer – JFK Lecture

  68. Iris says:

    “The JFK Assassination, Part I – What Happened?”

    - 1 – What happened is that, in total contradiction with the Oswald official version, President Kennedy was killed by a bullet shot from the front-right, which entered his right temple, exited from the back, blowing up his skull and brain matter in the process.
    This wound was explicitly described by Press Secretary Malcolm Kilduff at the assassination press conference:

    The shot can be seen in the “Back and to the left” sequence of the Zapruder film (Frame 312 onward).

    - 2- Then ensued 55-years of consistent cover-up, during which the overwhelming eyewitness testimonies of medical personnel and autopsy witnesses describing the President’s fatal wound were carefully ignored, because they could not be rebutted, in favour of faked autopsy photos and X-rays.

    https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/ARRB_Medical_Testimony.html

  69. Jake says:

    The very intense, often insane, hatred of the Kennedy brothers was due to Joe Kennedy, who became hated intensely hated and feared by FDR and his allies, both the Elite WASPs moneybags for the Democrats and the Elite WASPs who were Republicans.

    And that meant that Jews also came to hate and fear Joe Kennedy, especially after Kennedy tried to warn FDR about the moves made by certain UK WASPs and Jews (of a number of English-speaking nations) to arrange things so that before long there would be a WW2 which would destroy Germany totally and forever.

    The American Deep State almost certainly had both Jack and Bobby Kennedy murdered. And the American Deep State then went into overdrive making certain that their memories would be polarizing, which would all but prevent any number of people seeing the big picture.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Cleburne
  70. utu says:
    @Iris

    Yitzhak Rabin was in Dallas ‘just hours before—albeit as mere coincidence.’ From Rabin’s wife book:

    https://www.facebook.com/Occupy911/posts/988485417927658

    Just as we walked in the door of our home, I picked up the phone to hear shocking news: John F. Kennedy was dead. To have just returned from the United States and for Yitzhak to have been in Dallas just hours before — albeit as mere coincidence; Fort Bliss was a stop on his military briefing tour— was disorienting. Yitzhak was about to become chief of staff and had just completed an intensive study of state-of-the-art defense and security practices from the most powerful nation in the world and suddenly we learned that country’s chief-executive was slain by a lone-gunman

  71. As Ron Unz mentions in his article, David Talbot’s Brothers (2007) is certainly worth reading if one is interested in the JFK subject. It is also serves as prelude to the assassination of RFK in 1968. Talbot also published The Devil’s Chessboard (2015), which is the best work available on the postwar machinations of Allen Dulles, brother of Eisenhower’s Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, and the godfather of the CIA. Allen Dulles was one of the architects of the JFK assassination.

  72. @DR-Montreal

    Eventually Unz does realize Garrison was a real person. But it is remarkable that six months ago he thought Garrison was fictional and now he considers himself an expert.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  73. @Jake

    As your saying the hatred of the Kennedys in the 1960s was a result of Joe Kennedy’s totally ineffectual efforts to thwart FDR in the late 30s and early 1940s is prima facie ridiculous would you care tell us what sources you rely on? What were the key cables and letters to thee WH and State Department. How was their substance preserved and disseminated so as to give a vestige of plausibility to your theory?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @David
  74. At some point people just stopped trying. Of course modern Presidents function in a security bubble.

    It was sobering to see an Obama rally in Chicago, shortly after his first election. When the camera zoomed out, you could see that the podium was inside a giant perspex fishtank.

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
  75. This site is now using Cloudflare protection. Did a DDOS attack follow the publication of any particular article?

  76. The strange case of Sirhan Sirhan.

  77. Chase says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    It’s DDOS protection. Evidently (((someone))) doesn’t like where Mr. Unz is going.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  78. Skeptikal says:

    ” For the first time in my entire life, I started to wonder whether maybe, just maybe there actually had been some sort of conspiracy behind the most famous assassination in modern world history.”

    My God, Ron. I am very disappointed. And incredulous!
    For a smart fellow you have been remarkably trusting.
    Well, better late than never, I suppose.
    But I hope you are making an effort to catch up on your reading and research on this issue, which is, obviously, of central importance to the future of this country.

    • Replies: @Anon
  79. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    The so-called Deep State are not the Machiavellian powerhouses of legend with grand plans and concerted actions.

    As with the conspiracy against Trump, they are morally self-righteous nitwits who occasionally come together into coteries of pompous careerists according to some sort of implicit class and ideological shared characteristics.

    They are not killing people “to teach the others” because their cack-brained schemes don’t have that wide perspective.

    It’s a bit of a shame that the inevitable result of a corrupt, distant administrative state has been confused with a cartoonish concept for children and mental incompetents. It means that the wrong lessons will be learned.

    I’m certainly willing to question the historical account on Kennedy. I’ve been primed to do so by the media ever since I could read. I’m just confused by how one can imagine his theorised killers to be so smart and in control as to be planning for second and third order effects but also do the killing in such a potentially calamitous fashion. If they’re smart, it also doesn’t correlate with all that has been revealed and labelled as “deep state” in the last year.

  80. Anon[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    I believe Oswald did it.

    But the level of lies and foul play in the Trump Era by Deep State and the media all brazenly out in the open does make you wonder how power really works.

    And the Seth Rich case. And the Skripals in UK. And fake hysteria about Assad using chem weapons AGAIN.

    Just makes you wonder.

    There is no doubt there are tons of people in gov who will do anything to get rid of Trump.

    But it’s possible that conspiracies were afoot but a lone actor beat everyone to it.

    If the Deep State were to take out Trump, how would they do it?

    • Replies: @prusmc
    , @BB753
  81. edNels says:

    Douglas’s book: JFK the Unspeakable is readable and informative.

    You bring light on the effects of the real personal danger to the psychology of both Robert, and Jacky of the murder and it now is more understandable how that Robert was so quiet. How jacky left the country and remarried like she did, that was something that needs to be considered, the safety aspects, ”where to go?”
    There were real enemies for JFK, he was pretty fearless, as the young can be, (cocky) He over shot his options, he was naive.

    Generals, CIA individuals, Cuba expats, MIC and etc. the establishment that isn’t about to roll over and give up anything.

    But that was 1963, JFK was Camelot and he was a breath of fresh air, with an energetic can do attitude and a good looking lady like wife with style grace, which gave us youth a positive out look. It was up beat against mostly the drumbeat of negatives from the incessant cold war fear mongering of those years, depressing times. Remembering Jackie’s elegance when she took TV on a tour of the White House and her high class speaking voice distinct from the illiterate patois that seems to thrive in the capital, (what do to it’s historical southern… geography…?) and that’s gotta go!
    Low brow ignorant slobs with no morals is what they want. And… so what if JFK had girl friends, that’s what you’re supposed to do when you can, afford it!

    Our school took the challenge that JFK made to do a 50 mile hike in a day. just for the health and accomplishment of it, that was his type of beneficial influence on the kids, now long forgotten ideas or that kids could stop texting or walk one mile with out problems.

    The establishment, so called is fine with a country of sick kids and slick national leaders that lie with a smile and do bad things in the oval office with a little trusting intern and get backed up by the piano legged enabler… who would reign someday.

    Maybe the most important feature of a Leader or President is that he/she/it can be a beacon of… better things to aim for offer up a hint of idealism, not more cheap ass puppets.

    And poor Nixon had some good points now compared to what has dragged through there.

  82. Ron, my acquaintance with America’s great complexity (quite unlike my own country’s relatively straightforward knowability) has grown immensely in the last 25 years and Unz Review has been at least keeping up the pace of my learning.

    Still, despite understanding the huge stakes, the diversity and the culture which makes killing people for political reasons thinkable in the US, I try to apply a test of motivation and plausible forethought by the malefactors before beginning to believe in conspiracy theories.

    9/11 still fails those tests, especially when one considers that Obama bin Laden had the proven motive to achieve the disaster for America that has occurred. But you have me now accepting that a conspiracy to kill JFK could pass the motive test and in a time of Suez campaigns, Bay of Pigs Invasions, Cold War tensions and shady characters like Hoover and Angleton the good old American tradition of shooting at Presidents might have reared its head again in the minds of more than Oswald. At this point you have made convincing use of the secret beliefs of others that you have become privy to. But What Happened as your Part 1 is headed is sufficiently misleading to draw attention to the ultimately greater importance of nailing down the evidence of bullets fired and their trajectories and the injuries in particular amongst items of hard evidence. Oswald’s movements over weeks at least are critical.

    One other thing that leaves your otherwise convincing case a little puzzling is your choice to make a point by way of what you said to your well placed friend (without reply) and to include in it the odd final question whether World War 1 might not have happened. As an unserious piece of decoration to end a private letter it is one thing but to include it as part of your case here seems a trifle bizarre. At the risk of being absurdly, ploddingly, pedantic I have spoken at length with many honest people who fought in WW1 or lived through it, read the newspapers, knew the wounded, and were conscious of its effects on their lives. But thanks for this addition to your American Pravda series which may be an important archive in 100 years time.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Wade
  83. Skeptikal says:

    “President John F. Kennedy was indeed killed by a conspiracy, and we are sorry we spent more than a half century suppressing that truth and ridiculing those who uncovered it.”

    So now what?

  84. Sparkon says:
    @Chase

    Cloudfare — or something — deleted or otherwise trashed my relatively innocuous comment under Fred Reed’s article, so I don’t like where Cloudfare — or something — is going either.

  85. Mr. Grey says:

    Stephen Talbot’s book after ‘Brothers’ is ‘The Devil’s Chessboard”. The idea of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy, with the CIA, mafia, and everything may seem wacky until you look at Allen Dulles, the “old man” of the CIA that Kennedy fired after the Bay of Pigs. He’s the lynchpin to understanding how all these pieces fit together, and how a high-level operation to kill the President could be pulled off outside of official channels.

    • Replies: @prusmc
    , @Paul Jolliffe
  86. @utu

    “But every repetition of the meme that is non ironic reinforces it. ”

    I’m not so sure. Maybe. I think it’s possible that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Even so, your argument is well made.

    “Kubrick’s film was one of the first to show American soldier and Vietnam in new context.”

    Kubrick’s film was a deeply cynical attempt to portray young white American troops (in this case Marines, not soldiers; there is a distinction) as racist homicidal maniacs, eager to leave their homeland and go kill little yellow men in black pajamas. This of course, is absurd. Kubrick never envisioned in a million years that R. Lee Ermey’s character of Gunnery Sergeant Hartman was going to go on to be one of the most loved and celebrated performances of all time. Kubrick intended for Hartman to be hated by audiences. Based on how utterly terrible the second half of FMJ is, I suspect that Ermey’s performance saved the movie from becoming a complete farce of itself, as he is the most realistic and likeable character in the film.
    No, Kubrick clearly had an ax to grind, and the result is likely the most poorly made film he ever did, Act I notwithstanding.

    Kubrick apparently didn’t learn, or had forgotten, that the most effective way to present an anti-war message is through satirization of established leadership, which he did brilliantly with Dr. Strangelove, as opposed to vilifying the prols as in FMJ. See the movie M*A*S*H and the book Catch 22 for further examples.
    Even Stone’s Platoon, as clearly anti-war as it was, was not anti-troop to the extent FMJ is.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
  87. Skeptikal says:

    “Less than a year after the assassination, JFK mistress Mary Meyer, the ex-wife of high-ranking CIA official Cord Meyer, was found shot to death in a Washington DC street-killing with no indications of attempted robbery or rape”

    Mary Pinchot Meyer is worth a very much longer look.
    Yes, her husband was Cord Meyer.
    Her brother-in-law was Ben Bradlee.
    Bradlee was the one who allowed Angleton to take control of the diary.
    The cover-up was orchestrated at the highest levels and involved many central media figures.

    • Replies: @utu
  88. @Achilles

    Thanks for putting us on the right track.

  89. Ron Unz says:
    @James Kabala

    Eventually Unz does realize Garrison was a real person. But it is remarkable that six months ago he thought Garrison was fictional and now he considers himself an expert.

    Actually, as I emphasized in my text, my ignorance of Garrison’s existence wasn’t six months ago, but almost a decade in the past.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
  90. @Sunbeam

    See my reply to utu, comment 88. But I feel pretty much the same way about him. Maybe I’m just a dumb prol, but A Clockwork Orange was on the stupidest movies I’ve ever seen. Mindless nihilism is not interesting.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  91. syonredux says:
    @Number9

    Your inability to address those rebuttals to Bugliosi’s prosecutor’s brief — in which he “cherry-picks the evidence, ignores the most compelling counter-evidence, and sets up straw-man arguments to knock down” — is noted. I accept your capitulation.

    Dear fellow, there are three types of goon that I don’t bother arguing with anymore:

    Holocaust Denial Goons

    JFK Assassination Conspiracy Goons

    Apollo Moon Landings Were Faked Goons

    Nowadays, I just point them to better sources of information and go my merry way…..

  92. Skeptikal says:
    @Anonymouse

    For a quick answer to your questions, read JFK and the Unspeakable.
    by James Douglass.

  93. Skeptikal says:
    @Anonymouse

    For a quick answer to your question re motive, read JFK and the Unspeakable.
    By James Douglass.
    For a quick answer to the questions of motive, means, and opportunity,
    think CIA/other members of US deep state/Israel/Texas pols ;
    mob, in particular Lansky and French orgs;
    inside actors who chose Dallas route and Secret Service who stood down.

  94. utu says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Why don’t do some search on internet. There is Kennedy’s biography that tells a lot. But try this:

    The Dark Side Of Joe Kennedy Sr.

    http://allthatsinteresting.com/joe-kennedy-sr

    WHEN JOE KENNEDY TRIED TO BUY OFF HITLER

    https://www.ozy.com/flashback/when-joe-kennedy-tried-to-buy-off-hitler/79070

    Joseph Kennedy and the Jews

    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/697

    Joe Kennedy’s Answer to the ‘Jewish Question’: Ship Them to Africa

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-kennedys-answer-to-the-jewish-question-ship-them-to-africa

    Was Joseph Kennedy Really an Anti-Semite?

    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/151962

    FDR outsmarts them all: Henry Ford, Joseph Kennedy, Charles Lindbergh and the American entrance into World War II

    https://www.salon.com/2015/01/02/fdr_outsmarts_them_all_henry_ford_joseph_kennedy_charles_lindbergh_and_the_american_entrance_into_world_war_ii/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  95. Ron Unz says:

    Actually, I should emphasize an important point…

    In no way would I regard myself as a “JFK assassination” expert. Indeed, my impression is that many of the commenters here are far, far more knowledgeable on the subject than myself. Basically, until about a decade ago, I never paid the least attention to the matter, and although I’ve subsequently read something like a dozen books on the topic, this is merely the slightest sliver of the 2,000 or so that have been published over the years.

    I would regard myself as being very much a relative newcomer, but given that I’m exploring the issue with entirely fresh eyes, I think this may give me some advantages in noticing certain obvious things and also perhaps presenting them to others.

    • Replies: @Achilles
    , @Emblematic
  96. renfro says:
    @Ron Unz

    As Talbot points out, if Bugliosi could (deliberately?) get something so important so totally wrong, it raises extremely serious questions about the reliability of the other 1600 pages of his gigantic win-by-intimidation text.

    Exactly.

  97. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I agree with you. Totally bewildered by that strange ending of his letter about WW1 being a possible fiction……

    Ron, are you like your estimable friend Fred Reed, pulling your reader’s leg?

  98. edNels says:
    @Cold N. Holefield

    Interesting line of thought you bring up:

    The Show. Obama was the first CIA POTUS from womb to Oval Office and Trump is the first true Clown In Chief.

    he can Troll the Nation with impunity. The National Security State wants this.

    Is it in cahoots with Russia and Israel to crush America

    devour what remains from the inside out?

    It isn’t too far off an idea somewhere that the roles of Russia and China, and America are being systemically reversed. Communism is being installed incrementally without a clue by the Americans who don’t study these things carefully until it will be too late, and the Russians, who have been hammered Laize/Lousy… Faire Capitalism for a while.

    Bugliosi’s Helter Skelter was pretty good pocket book at one time, but over the years since that, he’s been notably non truth oriented, I think, and buys the official story about both JFK and the other ones, but you know what, Manson family was full of strange stuff
    that might have been unfinished like. LSD is a form of truth serum cooked up by scientists and pushed by psycospooks etc. what went wrong there?

    Better find somebody to wrap it up seal it. and go on to fame and STFU.

  99. @utu

    Very, very perceptive and shows the deep thinking that goes into professional high profile political assassinations to get the biggest bang for the buck.

    • Agree: utu
  100. Rurik says:

    if there was any doubt before, the continuing refusal of the government to release the files,

    ..should be all anyone needs to know that they’re hiding something. If they were telling the truth, they’d release the files.

    http://collectivelyconscious.net/articles/executive-order-11110-jfk-vs-the-federal-reserve/

    “Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.”

    ― Woodrow Wilson

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  101. Thim says:
    @Sunbeam

    The latest Clinton dead being the celebrity chef who tweeted that he had evidence to put Hillary in jail, but then he hung himself on a doorknob. Seriously.

  102. David says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dude, do you even know what a Judaizing heresy is or who Oliver Cromwell was? Prepare to be schooled by Jake, pal. /sarc

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  103. utu says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    I did not care for FMJ. Agree that it was his worst movie. Probably he was not invested in it and possibly he was fulfilling a specific order to help to put Vietnam trauma behind by making a movie with a special profile. I did not take it as an anti-War movie. The war was just a matter of fact and everybody was accepting it on some level and that nothing could have be done about it. Nobody wanted to protest the war and nobody wanted to be a hero. Just the absurdity of the war and do your thing and do not make waves. That’s what we want form you now. Besides we really do not need you anymore because we have volunteers now who do this for money and there will be no more antiwar BS. It is just a business. The movie was about Americans responding to being in situation of pointless war they did not give a shit about. They were rational and not really traumatized so they could get over it. The movie was the signal to stop the antics of anti-War sentiments and put Vietnam behind because there will be more wars in the future.

  104. renfro says:
    @kikl

    CIA Director McCone was “complicit” in a Central Intelligence Agency “benign cover-up” by withholding information from the Warren Commission, according to a report by the CIA Chief Historian David Robarge released to the public in 2014.[24] According to this CIA report, CIA officers had been instructed to give only “passive, reactive, and selective” assistance to the commission,

    But who told McCone to make sure information was withheld?
    “If’ the assassination was primarily a CIA operation what was the motive?
    It still isn’t drilled down to the ‘nucleus individuals’ who desired and planned the assassination.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  105. utu says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    I just found this that reinforces my point I tried to make intuitively.

    http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20140710-can-a-film-be-truly-anti-war

    But there are detractors who see Full Metal Jacket quite differently. In a review, critic Jonathan Rosenbaum recalls how he accompanied the late US director Samuel Fuller to a Full Metal Jacket screening only to hear him proclaim that “it was another goddamn recruiting film.” Fuller believed that teenage boys going to Kubrick’s picture would come out impressed and seduced by the idea of wartime combat.

    It can be seen as a recruiting movie. Lots of kids loved the sergeant, right?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  106. syonredux says:
    @Iris

    Golden Gate or Brooklyn? I might be able to get you a two-for-one deal…….

  107. renfro says:
    @Anonymouse

    Fifty-five years have passed without any conspirator’s deathbed confession.

    Which imo makes the theory that it was solely a government or CIA operation seem improbable.
    Someone in these 50 years would have squealed.
    However in addition to the other suspicious deaths Ron mentioned there could have been other accidents or deaths in the gov or CIA of not important figures that went unremarked upon and were not news worthy.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Wizard of Oz
  108. So, for decades, leftists have worked and are still working to convince people that the left (aka Oswald) did not kill Kennedy, an event which has destabilized US politics to this day, leading to the debacle in Viet Nam, the capture of the universities in 1968, the perverse election of Nixon and his disastrous decisions on monetary policy with decades long adverse effects on US standard of living, and on and on, including the perpetuation and expansion of the warfare state.

    It was a seeming master stroke by the Soviets, but had perverse (from its perspective) unintended consequences, including the reinvigoration of the US military under Johnson, who knew who killed Kennedy and decided to fight them in Viet Nam of all places. That war was lost by the US as Johnson lost to the left here in the US but the Cold War mentality among the rest of the country persisted and led to the Reagan buildup and the collapse of the Soviet Union. Karma, perhaps.

    If, on the other hand, the job was done by anti-communists in control of the media, Oswald’s leftism would have been played up much more. Instead, blame was heaped on southern racism. The “lone gunman” narrative was designed to tamp down anti-Soviet and anti-left sentiment, and succeeded very well. And apparently still does with some people.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Anon
  109. Svenm says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    I highly recommend Mary’s Mosaic to anyone with genuine interest in this issue.

  110. Ron Unz says:
    @syonredux

    Dear fellow, there are three types of goon that I don’t bother arguing with anymore:

    Holocaust Denial Goons

    JFK Assassination Conspiracy Goons

    Apollo Moon Landings Were Faked Goons

    Well, it’s nice to know that some random Internet nut who hangs around my website endlessly copy-pasting huge chunks of Wikipedia text and ranting about immigrants is so much more knowledgeable and astute than Alan Brinkley, the Allan Nevins Professor of History and Provost of Columbia University.

    I find it quite shocking that Columbia has such a “conspiracy lunatic” on its faculty, and you should definitely organize a campaign to get him purged…

    • Agree: lavoisier
    • Replies: @syonredux
  111. renfro says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Furthermore, it is pretty easy to kill someone so, if there was a conspiracy to kill those two, goodness knows why the conspirators would not just use more subtle methods…

    Wrong.
    The only people who could have gotten thru presdential security protocol to murder Kennedy privately and subtly would have been one of his girl friends.

    And that didnt happen.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Sam J.
  112. Oh, come on already.

    Richard Posner’s 1994 Case Closed, the best selling book on the JFK assassination deals with all the major parts of conspiratorial thinking. Oswald acted alone. It can be very difficult for pro-Kennedy worshipers to fathom that some nobody, a disgruntled ne’er do well Marxist could actually kill their beloved Camelot administration, with a second rate rifle at that. So, “obviously” a much more darker conspiracy involving LBJ, CIA, FBI, Castro, the Russians, anybody but the actual person directly involved “must” have done it. Much larger purposes and devious characters just HAVE to have played a part behind the scenes. And yet, Lee Harvey remains in the history books, does he not, as the official explanation of the assassination.

    Of course. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar is a cigar, and there isn’t any “there” there at all.

    “one can’t believe impossible things.” “I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

    It isn’t lunchtime yet, can’t wait to see what happens next.

    • Agree: syonredux
  113. peterAUS says:

    For me, personally, it hinges on the shooting itself.
    Not conspiracy itself but the number of shooters.
    Timeframe.

    If, as one timeframe says, the shooting (3 rounds) took 7 seconds, no way Oswald did it alone.
    If that timeframe is 12 seconds it is possible. Still very hard, but, possible.

    That stretching timeframe is, maybe, interesting.

    BTW, forgot, somebody here probably knows:
    When the rifle was examined, was it properly zeroed for that target?

    One has to be careful about posting certain details on the Internet, but, even (proper) hunters zero a rifle for “that” particular target.
    So, for this particular shooting, zeroing wise, there were two elements.
    So, properly zeroed or not?

    • Replies: @Dube
  114. @syonredux

    Syonredux, I am perhaps one of very few people who checked out (not bought) this book from our local library, several times (3 weeks each time) to read it. If that’s the only book on the JFK Assassination you’ve read (which I doubt you have entirely) you have no doubt have already bought the bridge in Brooklyn yourself, perhaps from Vincent Bugliosi himself. How was the Kool-Aid? Besides the two books mentioned in this article, I suggest you take the time to also read: L Fletcher Prouty’s book: JFK the CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F Kennedy. Also, Sherry P Fiester’s book: Enemy of the Truth. Also, Larry Hancock’s: Someone would have talked. Also, Jim Marr’s: Crossfire. I’ve got many more on my bookshelf you can borrow if you’re really seriously about learning the truth. One other thing, read and research on the type of people LBJ, J Edgar Hoover were. Also, do some deep reading on how the Syndicate and the CIA operated at the time of this, and other assassinations, either separate or together. I have done this for many many years. CAN YOU?

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Thirdeye
  115. syonredux says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, it’s nice to know that some random Internet nut who hangs around my website endlessly copy-pasting huge chunks of Wikipedia text and ranting about immigrants is so much more knowledgeable and astute than Alan Brinkley, the Allan Nevins Professor of History and Provost of Columbia University.

    I find it quite shocking that Columbia has such a “conspiracy lunatic” on its faculty,

    You do? Ron, I’m an academic; half the Humanities profs that I know are quasi-crazy.

    Basically, until about a decade ago, I never paid the least attention to the matter, and although I’ve subsequently read something like a dozen books on the topic,

    Which books? Were any of them anti-conspiracy? I know that you didn’t read Bugliosi, but did you read Posner’s book?You could read that one in an afternoon……

    • Replies: @Anon
  116. Achilles says:
    @Ron Unz

    I was an avid reader of the Mark Lane and other JFK conspiracy books many years ago and am ashamed to say I was taken in by the charlatans for a number of years until I came to understand how dishonestly the evidence for their theories was presented.

    I suggest to someone approaching this today that the first step is to understand that the evidence as it stands today fully demonstrates that Oswald fired three shots from the school book depository window which are fully accounted for and which fully account for all the damage from bullets fired in the incident.

    Here is a clip from a documentary using computer simulation techniques with the actual limousine configuration and dimensions to model the path of the bullet, completely debunking the ridiculous and dishonest Stone JFK movie contention about the magic bullet:

    It’s worth finding the whole documentary which was produced by the History Channel and watching it, even though you will have to endure the narration by the insufferable smug hack Peter Jennings.

    Once one understands that Oswald was indeed the shooter, and that he also attempted to assassinate General Edwin Walker and killed Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit, one can then move on to the interesting question of whether Oswald was part of a conspiracy.

    In this connection, watch the recent series presented by former CIA officer Bob Baer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_Declassified:_Tracking_Oswald

    Unfortunately about 30 minutes of interesting evidentiary points and speculation are stretched out into six hour-long episodes.

    Relevant here are Oswald’s travels to Mexico City and visits to the Russian and Cuban embassies close to the time of the assassination, the evidence that Castro expected in advance to hear news of something happening from Dallas on the day of the assassination and Oswald’s connections to Cuban exile groups, one of which in particular was angered at JFK over the Bay of Pigs betrayal but yet had been thoroughly infiltrated by the Cuban communist government.

    In episode five, two rifle marksmen recreate the head shot using time-lapse photography and a gel mold for a human head demonstrating that the reaction to a bullet entering from the rear of the head and exiting the front does indeed produce a ‘back and to the left’ movement seen in the Zapruder film. (This has been demonstrated countless times using watermelons and other objects, but some people still seem not to get it.)

    To my mind, the best theory is that Oswald was close to a Cuban exile group with a strong presence in Dallas that had been anti-Castro but was turned by the JFK betrayal into an anti-JFK group which to that extent aligned with Oswald’s marxist worldview and sympathy for Castro. This group assisted him in the assassination attempt on General Walker and was to assist him after killing JFK. As Bob Baer explains in the final episode of his documentary, this Cuban group vacated a safe house in Dallas the day after the assassination, which safe house was on the bus route Oswald traveled after killing JFK.

    So why all of the wild conspiracy theorizing trying to point away from Castro and Cubans?

    First, as Jackie observed, “He didn’t even have the satisfaction of being killed for civil rights. It had to be some silly little communist.” A lot of the effort by conspiracy theorists is to try to point away from the connection to communism. In fact, our presidential assassins with the exception of Booth have been anarchists/proto-communists (oneida)/communists. So, we get theories about Dallas conservatives or LBJ or the Mob or whatever. And as we have seen time and time again, excusing or concealing the wrongdoings of Marxists is a favorite hobby horse of our Jewish-dominated national media.

    Second, LBJ was a man of low moral character and completely lacking in honor. When he found himself president, instead of fully investigating the attack upon our president which might have led to a connection to Castro and perhaps even the Soviets and might have required facing up to some very difficult truths and decisions, he preferred the no-conspiracy explanation which allowed him to put this out of the way and to get on with using his new-found power to implement his own agenda.

    One major loose end in all this is Jack Ruby. Why did he kill Oswald? It has been fairly well established that Ruby had no advance knowledge that Oswald would be in that particular spot at that particular time, and just took advantage of the happenstance of his being downtown running an errand when the police were transporting Oswald from one place to another through that garage. But that doesn’t mean he hadn’t been planning to or instructed to kill Oswald. Or maybe he really was just a hothead who lost control of himself. I am open to further theories as to Ruby.

  117. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yojimbo, you obviously need to do more reading and research than just Gerald Posner’s book: Cased Closed. I’ve read it and many many others. Go deeper into what was happening in the world at the time and who really were JFK’s enemies (hint: it wasn’t USSR or Cuba) on November 1963. Some very powerful people wanted JFK out of office and obviously couldn’t wait until 1964 or vote him out of office. Time became critical to remove him for various reasons, not which were Marxist or the beloved Camelot administration. READ and RESEARCH a lot more than you have to this point.

    • Replies: @utu
  118. utu says:
    @Skeptikal

    There was a movie loosely base on this: An American Affair (2008)

  119. Without any further ado, here are the facts. If you can remember only one thing remember Sept.26. This is the integral day. Oswald from September 26th, 1963 to October 2th, 1963 was out of the country. He took a bus trip to Mexico City. BTW-September 26 was the same day that the papers said Kennedy would be coming to Dallas. There he met, numerous times with both the Russian and Cuban embassies. THIS is the critical time frame and sets everything that follows in motion. Not New Orleans, this trip.

    Now back to our docu-drama. Oswald meets with a Russian agent by the name of Kostikov. He was a big comrade in the party. He was, of all things the chief of assassinations for the western hemisphere. Somewhere during the meeting Oswald just blurts out, “I want to kill that son of a bitch Kennedy. This was on October 1st, 1963. The CIA actually did record him saying this. I would guess Oswald offered it because neither the Russian or Cuban embassies were taking him very seriously in his desires to defect again to either Russia or Cuba (Preferably Cuba). This Kennedy statement was a pure blurt out, not something they were actually talking about.

    However, the following day Oswald was seen with this Kostikov at a Mexican restaurant. (It’s Mexico, what did you expect?) Nobody knows what was said at this lunch.

    Now Oswald is back on board the bus and makes it back to Dallas. Remember, this trip is the crucial part of all that would follow.

    At home again with Marina, The charming Oswald couple is visited by frequent visitor Ruth Paine, a neighbor. She is very religious and tells Lee there is a job opening at the School Book Depository. She was investigated and has never shown to be anything but a concerned neighbor who was trying to help Marina with her deadbeat, loser husband. She was not a foreign spy etc. She was just trying to help Marina with the bum.

    So Oswald takes the job and blasts JFK. Now, let’s look at it, first the cover-up, the Warren Commission, Lyndon Johnson etc.

    Lyndon Johnson and Bobby Kennedy picked up phones and deliberately squashed any and all investigations into the assassination (Bobby too.) But at this point, make no mistake about it, the CIA, the FBI and all the rest of the alphabet soup were told to stand down. Period. The big cover-up was on.

    But again, not the various ones you’ve probably heard of involving the CIA, FBI, Russians, Texas Oilmen, etc. killing JFK. This cover-up was about one thing only. If the government didn’t act immediately to squelch the info that was rapidly coming to light there was a very good chance we could have ended up in WW3. Oswald’s visit to both the Russian and Cuban embassy’s right before the assassination was the information we couldn’t let out.

    There wasn’t any hard conclusive proof of a conspiracy, no smoking gun and our government didn’t want to enter a war based only on speculation. (This was a break from normal policy.)

    The threat of nuclear was at that time very real. It was at the height of the cold war. So that was the elephantine cover up that our government and the Warren Commission perpetrated on the American people. As an ancillary note, the CIA knew they would look ridiculous, just horrible in view of the fact that they had heard Oswald saying he wanted to kill the President 6 weeks earlier but failed to do anything.

    So Oswald clearly, without any doubt blasted Kennedy by himself for his own reasons. He wanted to build up points with the commies and Castro and show what an ally and asset he was for them. These are the facts.

    And another one you hear. Oswald was very inconsistent, all over the map and there’s no telling who he was working with or what he believed. Totally false. He loved Castro and communism. Period. That never changed one iota. (He used to read the Daily Worker.) Oswald’s shenanigans in New Orleans were just that, he was playing spy to try to infiltrate all these right wing groups that hated Castro. That’s all. 7 months before Kennedy, he shot at and tried to kill retired General Edwin Walker. He was a hard right-winger that Oswald would have hated.

    Some might say that Oswald never expressed any hatred of Kennedy in some earlier incidents. Very true, then, but things change my friend. A short time before the assassination and certainly before he went to Mexico City, Kennedy was quoted in the Dallas paper that Castro should be over thrown by the Cuban exiles and refugees. He basically invited open warfare on Castro. Oswald, an avid paper reader, I believe would have seen this (this was his favorite, if not only subject he cared about). His love of communism and Castro was the story, it never changed one bit throughout. When Kennedy went on record saying Castro should be over thrown Oswald now had a reason to violently hate him.

    I had always wondered that if Kennedy’s trip wasn’t known until only 2 or 3 days before he came, (As I had read) how in the hell could this work? How could Oswald be on the scene perched to kill him? Now, after all this time I finally read the truth. As previously stated, Kennedy’s trip was announced to Dallas, way back on September 26th 1963. So this obviously changes everything. Not the basic facts, but at least it tells me how Oswald could position himself in the right place. It also sheds light on why he left for Mexico on that very day and was down in Mexico a week later saying, “I want to kill that Son Of A bitch Kennedy.

    My big area of mystery is finally answered. Oswald knew Kennedy was coming almost 2 months before. This explains his actions. The trip was public knowledge printed in the newspaper almost two months before. No the route wasn’t published till later, Oswald wouldn’t have known at that early time that Kennedy would ride by his window, but no matter, I have no doubt that where ever Kennedy’s route took him, Oswald would have followed. That was always the one big piece of mystery for me. Now I know. Oswald, the entire city of Dallas knew a couple months before. Now it all falls into place. (He was an avid reader and interested in Castro and Kennedy. Here’s how the old ball gets set in motion. Kennedy continues to bad moth Castro in the summer and fall of ’63. Now it all makes sense.

    So Oswald waits. If Kennedy hadn’t driven by the depository, as I say, Oswald would have just go to where JFK was passing by and just blasted him there. But lo and behold! Talk about making it easy for a guy! The parade route is published 3 days before and Oswald and the whole town can now see the route JFK will be taking. Hell, all the planning and strategy goes right out the window. Oswald now knows he can just sit there drink a Coke and eat some greasy chicken while he just sits and waits. Talk about serendipity. The lazy man’s way to assassinate people. (Patent pending.)

    (I just want to emphasize this) that’s the part of the story that never made sense. Why say you wanted to “kill Kennedy,” in Mexico City? What opportunity would he ever really have? Why take the job at the book depository? He didn’t know Kennedy would drive by there. But now I know, Oswald knew he was coming two months before, so his threat to kill Kennedy wasn’t an idle threat, he knew he was coming. And as far as the depository is concerned, that was just random chance, it just made it easier for Oswald, the President basically served himself up on a silver platter. And again, had the route not gone by the depository, Oswald simply would have followed him to whatever part of Dallas Kennedy was in and shot him there. Now that I finally read that that trip wasn’t announced only 2 days before, but in actuality, almost two months before, now the whole damn bloody mess makes perfect sense. No gray areas, no intrigue, no surprises. It’s all there in black and white.)

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @ploni almoni
    , @ians
  120. Lobster Magazine, run by Robin Ramsay, is a 6-monthly British journal of parapolitics that takes a keen interest in the JFK case.

    https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/index.php

    There are articles on JFK in nearly every issue of this magazine. These include snippets in “The view from the bridge” and “Holding Pattern” that are not long enough for a full article.

    Back-issues from Winter 2009 onwards are free to read; earlier issues require a subscription.

    A number of recent items caught my attention. Apologies if some of these have already been presented on unz.com.

    https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster75/lob75-thinking-about-dallas.pdf

    - p7 – there were multiple fake assassination attempts

    https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster74/lob74-jfk-deception.pdf

    - p9 – on the book “Flight from Dallas” (by lawyer James P Johnston and journalist John Roe) on the CIA flight that picked up an Oswald lookalike from Dallas on 22 November 1963.

    https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster74/lob74-view-from-the-bridge.pdf pp10-13
    - Emails from the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) are available in a searchable database – https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2017/oct/30/arrbmails/ – these emails range from correspondence with Peter Dale Scott to occasional lists of jokes sent between staff.
    - Prediction of JFK’s assassination (also mentioning Jack Ruby) – cf. Oliver Stone film.
    - A Navy doctor found another bullet in JFK’s limousine, and never reported it – https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/10/06/navy-doctor-bullet-found-jfks-limousine-never-reported/

    https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster72/lob72-view-from-the-bridge.pdf

    Mentions the 1999 autobiography of Eddie Fisher, the American crooner of the 1950s and early 60s.

    “… on page 257 there is this. Fisher flew back to Washington from Dallas the day after the assassination with Jackie Kennedy’s press secretary, Pam Turnure, his then lover. ‘Pam told me, Jackie Kennedy said to her, “Lyndon Johnson did it.” Words I’ll never forget.’ There is nothing else about the assassination.”

  121. @j2

    One problem with the magic bullet theory is that Connally did not believe in it

    Connally is Johnson’s accomplice. Period.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @j2
  122. Interesting. But what I want to know is who killed Seth Rich?

  123. @Sunbeam

    To my knowledge, Dr Strangelove was due to be out on November 22, 1963, but was delayed for a few days because of JFK’s assassination. Isn’t that amazing, considering James Douglass’s thesis — or, for that matter, Michael Collins Piper’s — that JFK was shot because of his determination to denuclearize the world?

  124. Iris says:
    @Iris

    The “magic bullet” theory is grotesque and un-scientific , both because of (1) its impossible, trajectory, and (2) its pristine condition after it allegedly broke 3 bones and caused 7 wounds.

    But it has also other “miraculous” aspects too:

    -3- Its weight: the weight of the pristine bullet was only 1.5% short of its full weight (158.6 grains , compared to 161 grains), with the missing 2.4 grains far below the weight of fragments recovered from Governor Connelly, which were not even all recovered as he took further fragments to his grave.

    -4 – Its source: On Friday evening after the assassination, unexperienced pathologists carried out a botched autopsy of the President, looking for a bullet that would fit the Oswald scenario and would have entered the body from the back. They could not find any.
    A phone call was given from Bethesda to Dallas , and, abracadabra !!, the magic bullet was “found” randomly lying on a stretcher at Dallas’ Parkland hospital.
    It would, by a further miracle, not have been encased in the wounded tissues.
    Finally, eyewitness later stated that Jack Ruby visited the hospital the night the magic bullet was conveniently “found”.

  125. Skeptikal says:
    @syonredux

    Goons?

    That word suggests that you assume that people advocating for such ideas are in the pay of someone —basically, are hired thu and enforcers.
    An interesting theory.

  126. Skeptikal says:
    @renfro

    No, its not “pretty easy to kill someone.”

    If that were the case, Fidel would have been blown away by the CIA decades before he actually died.

    It is easy to kill someone if they are naive about the danger they are in—such as many of the key witnesses in the JFK incident who just happened to die unexpectedly and somewhat suspiciously a day, a week, a month before they were scheduled to testify or to meet with law enforcement to tell their story.

    • Replies: @renfro
  127. Skeptikal says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Probably what happens next is that no one pays much attention to your trolling!

  128. Skeptikal says:
    @Not Raul

    Just a quick review (Merriam-Webster) of the meaning of “conspiracy”—the point is the illegality and hence secrecy of the goal or the means:

    an illegal, treasonable, or treacherous plan to harm or destroy another person, group, or entity b : an agreement manifesting itself in words or deeds and made by two or more persons confederating to do an unlawful act or use unlawful means to do an act which is lawful : confederacy
    2
    : a combination of persons banded secretly together and resolved to accomplish an evil or unlawful end

  129. Skeptikal says:
    @donald j tingle

    Wow, back to the future. It was the Russkies ALL ALONG!!!

  130. renfro says:

    Second question in the assassination would be :

    Who had the political power/influence to control the investigation?

    Those who killed Kennedy had to be fairly confident they could control or influence the investigation that would ensue.

    Since the real evidence indicates the lone nut conclusion is wrong that leaves:

    The CIA did it……..anti liberal, Vietnam, etc..
    The Gov did it…… Johnson, Vietnam, etc.
    The Mafia did it…..Robert Kennedy going after organized crime, etc..
    The Israel Fifth Column did it…..Kennedy’s existential threat to nuclear Israel

    In all the investigation of possible motives ….Russia, Cuba, anti communism, pro communism, Vietnam ,etc., etc.. …the only dog that didn’t bark was the Israel motive.
    And this despite the known Jewish mafia connections to Oswell’s murderer, Ruby.

    Of the four groups above who would have kept the silence for 50 years and have influence over a political government investigation …which is the most likely?

    We also have to ask in light of Johnson’s subsequent cover up of Israel’s deliberate attack and killing of 34 Americans on the USS Liberty if he and others would have blacked out any consideration of Israel as a suspect.

    IMO…they would have.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  131. Art says:

    The ultimate conspiracy is 9/11 – the media has the same MO as on the Kennedys – it ridicules any and all questions – when do we start on it?

    The truth on 9/11 will change everything.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. My favorite explanation.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Art
    , @republic
  132. Skeptikal says:
    @renfro

    Yes, who in the world would do that, and why????
    Gee, could it have been Allen Dulles????
    Nah . . .

    • Replies: @renfro
  133. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    I’m an academic

    half the Humanities profs that I know are quasi-crazy

    This combination of statements is supposed to make us more or less confident in your judgments?

    Which books? Were any of them anti-conspiracy?

    Good question, though.

  134. bj says:

    “To put an end to this criminal tyranny our first task is to identify the criminal element behind these cover-ups so that we can identify the criminal faction that controls our government. In order to understand who is behind the criminal faction we need to go back to “the mother of all cover-ups,” Lyndon Johnson’s infamous Warren Commission concerning the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The Warren Commission needs to be taken first because it was the cover-up of a de facto coup d’état in which the criminal faction replaced the political leadership of the nation.”

    “Katzenbach, a crypto-Jew who also had close ties to the international order of Zionist Freemasons, the B’nai B’rith, played the same key role in the JFK cover-up at the Department of Justice as the Israeli-American Michael Chertoff played during the FBI’s “non-investigation” of 9-11. Assistant Attorney General Chertoff was supposed to prosecute the crimes of 9-11, but instead of leading a proper criminal investigation he authorized the destruction of the crucial evidence.”

    http://www.bollyn.com/political-assassinations/#article_14600

  135. utu says:
    @Luis Fierro

    I looked up Gerald Posner in wiki and read summaries of his books and I have 100% strong gut feeling signal that he is full of shit. Not as bizarre case like that of Eric Zuesse but clearly a guy that can’t be trusted.

  136. Read Robert Kennedy Jr.’s latest book American Values: Lessons I Learned from My Family. I am about two third through it. I highly recommend it. Besides RFK Jr.’s personnal memories and a great history of the Kennedys, all very well written and touching, you will discover that RFK Jr. is very knowledgable about the controversies on his uncle’s and his father’s deaths. He has done his homework and has even interviewed many key people. He basically agrees with Talbot (whom he quotes) and Douglass (whom he doesn’t quote), and even adds interesting details. I say this, although, as you can read in my recent article, I believe the masterminds of both assassinations were the Zion network, which RFK Jr. no more mentions than Talbot or Douglass, and therefore, in my understanding, RFK Jr. has still some way to go. But Talbot and Douglass were the first to put me on the trail, just like Ron Unz and RFK Jr., and I agree that they are the best books to start with (with RFK Jr.’s). The second step is to wonder why they all seem to exonerate LBJ, and to read Roger Stone’s The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ and Phillip Nelson’s LBJ: The Mastermind . After that, you are getting closer to Israel. Much closer. You just have to go on reading Michael Collins Piper’s Final Judgment, or my own JFK-9/11.

    • Replies: @Iris
  137. Another big hole in the official story. Col. Fletcher Prouty who worked in the Pentagon as a CIA liason at the time of this coup, discusses the “three tramps” and the CIA’s Landsdale photo at the plaza just after Kennedy was killed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=wA-3navQ-_E

    • Replies: @prusmc
    , @Wizard of Oz
  138. Skeptikal says:
    @Technomad

    “The kinds of scenarios I’ve seen from conspiracy believers”

    Following the evidence is usually the simplest thing.
    There may have been a bimbo who tried to off Kennedy, but so far I am not aware of any such evidence. And if such an attempt had been made, it might have been hard to off the bimbo quickly and then for the Navy to get control of the corpse and control the photo and autopsy evidence, as did occur.

    However, there is evidence that the killing shot came from a very obvious, “simple” place:
    through a grating in the road over an underground utility corridor. Easy peasy.
    The main point is that the whole Oswald narrative is the “legend.”
    It is the professional skill set of the CIA to manage covert operations and part of that process is creating the legends that misdirect attention. Very simple. You could call them red herrings, false trails. this concept is so pathetically simple and obvious that I am surprised how supposedly sophisticated “conspiracy theory” debunkers consistently fall for it. The perfect targets for Three Card Monte operators in (the old) Times Square!

    It is part of the skill set of the mobster to kill efficiently and hide the traces, use an untraceable weapon and make it disappear. On hindsight I think we can say that the immediate production of Oswald as the assassin is comparable to the miraculous discoveries of passports lying in rubble and on car seats that lead law enforcement directly to the perp. Again, the “conspiracy” debunkers are happy to swallow such miracles hook, line, and sinker. In fact, I would call the smart-ass debunkers “miracle theorists.” Becuase their acceptance of official narratives in both the JFK assassination and 911 depends on miracles.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  139. utu says:
    @Achilles

    Or maybe he really was just a hothead who lost control of himself.

    Maybe.

    https://forward.com/news/187793/lee-harvey-oswalds-killer-jack-ruby-came-from-stro/
    Silverman, now 89 and still leading High Holy Days services every year, remembers Ruby well. Once Ruby showed up at the rabbi’s house with a litter of puppies and insisted the rabbi take one. When the family went to Israel one summer, Ruby looked after the dog.

    “The day of the assassination, we had our regular Friday night service, which became a memorial service for the president,” Silverman said. “Jack was there. People were either irate or in tears, and Jack was neither. He came over and said, ‘Good Shabbos, rabbi. Thank you for visiting my sister Eva in the hospital last week.’ I thought that was rather peculiar.”

    Two days later, Silverman spoke to his Sunday morning confirmation class, expressing relief to the students that Lee Harvey Oswald was not Jewish or there might have been a “pogrom” in Dallas. He then switched on the radio and heard that a “Jack Rubenstein” had killed the assassin.

    “I was shocked,” said Silverman. “I visited him the next day in jail, and I said, ‘Why, Jack, why?’ He said, ‘I did it for the American people.’” I interrupted Silverman, pointing out that other reports had Ruby saying he did it “to show that Jews had guts.” The rabbi sighed.

    “Yes, he mentioned that,” Silverman said. “But I don’t like to mention it. I think he said, ‘I did it for the Jewish people.’ But I’ve tried to wipe that statement from my mind.”

    • Replies: @Achilles
    , @Anon
  140. syonredux says:
    @Luis Fierro

    If that’s the only book on the JFK Assassination you’ve read

    I used to be a Kennedy assassination buff. And, in my teens, I firmly believed that a conspiracy was behind it all. So, yeah, I read a lot of books on the topic: Rush to Judgment, Plausible Denial, Conspiracy, Appointment in Dallas,Crossfire , etc

    (which I doubt you have entirely)

    As I said upthread, I never finished the CD-ROM full of footnotes.

    you have no doubt have already bought the bridge in Brooklyn yourself, perhaps from Vincent Bugliosi himself. How was the Kool-Aid?

    Mixing metaphors is never a good idea…..

    • Replies: @Anon
  141. Skeptikal says:
    @syonredux

    “Don’t worry, Ron. I know that you’re not up to the challenge of actually reading Bugliosi’s book.”

    Gee, I think it is pretty nice of Ron to put up with such an unpleasant, snide, snarky, rude guest on his blog! Manners!!

    • Replies: @syonredux
  142. Iris says:
    @renfro

    However in addition to the other suspicious deaths Ron mentioned there could have been other accidents or deaths in the gov or CIA of not important figures that went unremarked upon and were not news worthy.

    Hi Renfro;

    Interestingly, several statisticians came up to the same conclusion with regard to President Kennedy’s assassination:
    - Out of 1100 witnesses called to testify between 1964- 1978, at least 46 died unnaturally. The probability of such event is 4.9E-45, or odds less than 1 in a trillion trillion trillion.
    - There was at least 122 suspicious deaths during the same period, with spikes occurring in 1964 (Warren commission) and 1977 (HSCA).

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AjAk1JUWDMyRdDFSU3NVd29xWWNyekd2X1ZJYllKTnc&oid=18&zx=oew8tfrowwhp

    N

    https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/jfk-mysterious-witness-deaths-london-sunday-times-and-hsca-cover-up/

    • Replies: @renfro
  143. @eD

    There is no need to assassinate presidents today. That problem has been solved.

  144. Iris says:
    @Chris Volkay

    “The charming Oswald couple is visited by frequent visitor Ruth Paine, a neighbor. She is very religious.”

    Ruth Paine was not a neighbour: she was the lodger, a Quaker who spoke Russian.
    Marina and Oswald’s daughters lived at her house. She later testified that Oswald actually liked President Kennedy very much.

  145. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Mixing metaphors is never a good idea…..

    Why not? You bought a bridge to gift to a cult, and when you gave the deed to the leader he praised you and rewarded you with a refreshing glass of Kool-Aid.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  146. Brewer says:

    Two words missing from this entire page.
    Arlen Specter.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  147. Achilles says:
    @utu

    Interesting. Thanks.

  148. @Chris Volkay

    As everybody knows, and as Jay Edgar Hoover noted, it was not Oswald in Mexico City but someone posing as Oswald. There are photographs of this Oswald impersonator. Even David Atlee Phillips confirmed that Oswald was not the person. You are being taken for a ride.

  149. Iris says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    “The second step is to wonder why they all seem to exonerate LBJ”

    Because of LBJ’s close, known links to Israel: “LBJ, our first Jewish President?”

    http://www.5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    Whether Israel is implicated or not, the point is that no one can even mention such hypothetical implication, it is “unspeakable”.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  150. @Achilles

    GREAT comment! So much of the JKF assassination conspiracy theorizing fails to come to grips with the (likely) fact that Oswald was a product of the LEFT! Kennedy repeatedly tried to assassinate Castro. It’s not a big stretch to figure out why Oswald and his pro-Cuba pals would want to assassinate Kennedy! But, instead, the conspiracy mongers somehow must explain JKF’s untimely demise as the product of some massive right-wing conspiracy.

    Also agree that the Ruby/Rubenstein story still contains many perplexing details, heretofore unexplained.

    • Replies: @ians
  151. Dube says:
    @peterAUS

    I recall reading reports that the examiners found the scope loose.

    • Replies: @c matt
  152. Dube says:

    OSWALD BUYS A COKE 

    What a rush! He was so exhilarated that it seemed his feet didn’t even touch the stairs from the sixth floor until he reached the vending machine at the ground floor lobby, where he paused, drew the correct change from his pants pocket, and inserted the coinage carefully into the slot, then stepped back with a breath of relief while listening to the familiar click-rumble-ker-LUNK!

    “The pause that refreshes.” 

  153. Anon[242] • Disclaimer says:

    Bravo, Ron. I have followed a path similar to yours–from ignorant (or perhaps lazy) acceptance of the WCR to total rejection.

    Anyone who starts to examine the facts in the most cursory manner is quickly overwhelmed by the numerous things that just don’t make sense. Here are a few off the top:

    - The limousine in which JFK was riding, the principal “crime scene,” was immediately shipped off to Detroit, where it was cleaned up and renovated. This was done by the FBI which had to be acting on the instructions or at least with the approval of LBJ.

    - The doctors and nurses at Parkland Hospital, where JFK was taken, uniformly said that the back of his skull was missing and that the wound on his throat was a small entrance wound. Jackie reached backward onto the trunk of the car to retrieve pieces of JFK’s skull/brains. This could not have happened from shots fired from the rear (the Book Depository Building).

    - Abraham Zapruder, who was standing in front of the grassy knoll when he took his famous film clip, said that the shots seemed to come from behind him, as did other witnesses who were in the same area. The WC ignored or rejected their testimony.

    -The Zapruder film shows JFK being violently thrown to his left and rear by the fatal head shot. Incredibly, this film was kept under wraps for 12 YEARS. IMO the WCR would have been a joke if the film had been available to the public when it was released.

    I prefer to deal in facts, not labels like “conspiracy.”

    • Replies: @Dube
    , @Hu Mi Yu
  154. Milton says:

    If you are in doubt about the idea that JFK was murdered in a conspiracy and that the coverup persists to this day, look no further than the fact that the sealed JFK Assassination Records that were supposed to be finally released in October, 2017 were once again classified (this time by Trump – which tells you who he is really working for) on the ludicrous basis of “national security” and to protect the “names and addresses” of individuals still alive.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  155. c matt says:
    @Chase

    Two MS 13 gang members agreeing to rob and murder Seth Rich is a “conspiracy;” powerful people agreeing to rob billions and billions is a “policy.”

  156. nickels says:

    LBJ certainly had no problems killing Catholics, not even a few weeks before Kennedy:

  157. renfro says:
    @Skeptikal

    Dulles was fired two years before Kennedy’s assassination.
    Did he afterwards hang out with a club of also now out of the game would be masters of the universe?….probably
    But would he have been capable of soliciting current CIA agents to hatch a plot to kill Kennedy…..without anyone else within the agency getting a whiff of it either during or after …I doubt it.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @ians
  158. @Skeptikal

    On hindsight I think we can say that the immediate production of Oswald as the assassin is comparable to the miraculous discoveries of passports lying in rubble and on car seats that lead law enforcement directly to the perp.

    LOL. Shocker! Oswald leaves the TSBD, is spotted by Tippit, kills Tippit, is chased down and arrested for that, two and two were added together, and he was held for the murder of Tippit and suspicion in re Kennedy.

    Open and shut.

  159. c matt says:

    The whole JFK assassination conspiracy thing is basically the American version of Soviet open secrets. No one really believes the official “Lone Gunman” story; but most people just politely nod in agreement because (1) we will never be allowed to know what really happened because it implicates people/institutions that are too powerful/important and (2) even if we did find out the truth, we couldn’t do anything about it because it implicates people/institutions that are too powerful/important. Aside from entertainment, I don’t see what it really adds. Does anyone above room temperature IQ really trust our government, regardless of the JFK thing? Has our government not proven a million times over they are corrupt beyond redemption? What more need have we of witnesses?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @utu
    , @Dillon Sweeny
  160. renfro says:
    @Iris

    Very interesting ..thanks

  161. c matt says:
    @Dube

    You generally zero a scope at a range, before going hunting. It is not uncommon for a properly zeroed scope to come loose after some shooting, particularly if the mounting mechanism is of poor quality. If this was mail order rifle from the ’60s, I would not think it unusual for the scope to be loose after several rounds. On the other hand, if you are assassinating the POTUS, you have military training, and you are a crack enough shot to have made the shot Oswald is argued to have made, you would think a little extra care would have been taken to make sure your scope, THE MOST IMPORTANT PART of the rifle for accurate long range shooting, was in good working order. Not the place to go cheap. Seems a loose scope could be argued either way.

  162. Curiously, unz.com was down for an extended period today.

    Was it just a coincidence?

  163. j2 says:
    @Achilles

    “Here is a clip from a documentary using computer simulation techniques with the actual limousine configuration and dimensions to model the path of the bullet, completely debunking the ridiculous and dishonest Stone JFK movie contention about the magic bullet:”

    In this animation it is claimed that the magic bullet came on Zapruder frame 223. In that frame and before it JFK is completely invisible, so it is totally impossible to say where he was sitting. After being shot, his position most probably changed at lest a bit. He can be seen in the frame 225, but we cannot assume that we know his position in the frame 223. This means that the maker of this animation is intentionally trying to confuse the viewer into believing that the position of the two men was obtained from the film and corresponds to the magic bullet theory. The problem with the theory is that the bullet did not get much deformed. If a bullet gets deformed, it probably would turn when it has slowed down and do more damage. Another problem with this animation is a claim that the first bullet (a miss) came in the frame 167. Nothing happens in that frame and it is not blurred. According to the blurred frame theory, the first shot should cause the cameraman to shake the camera so the frame is blurred. That would put the first shot to the frame 197.

    Nice try, but no.

  164. @Achilles

    One major loose end in all this is Jack Ruby. Why did he kill Oswald?

    His killing of Oswald suggests that Ruby was one of the conspirators against JFK. His prison sentence for killing Oswald was probably less than he would have received for conspiracy to kill JFK.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Laurent Guyénot
  165. peterAUS says:
    @c matt

    Seems a loose scope could be argued either way.

    Agree.

    Or, handling the weapon upon finding it. Those cops just didn’t strike me as professionals re handling the crime scene.
    I think that the most plausible is simply a knock (or two), not even intentional, from finding the rifle to actually examining it.

    That shooting wasn’t easy.
    Range wasn’t that great, but, the angle and target moving, plus the shooter excitement (Oswald wasn’t an experienced professional) just make the official story about the number of shooters a bit shaky.

    I am positive it was a conspiracy. What kind don’t know.

    And, then, again, seconds. 7 (no way) or 12 (hard but doable).
    Hehe…..we can fly to Moon, send robots to Mars. Extract information from a whif in ether, even encrypted. Master physics and ballistics so can intercept shells mid flight.
    But we have difficulties assessing time frame of the shooting, trajectories etc.

    Convenient.

  166. @Milton

    which tells you who he is really working for

    Who’s that? Sorry, I’m busy, I don’t have time to figure it out on my own.

    • Replies: @Milton
  167. Skeptikal says:
    @renfro

    Renfro, pay attention!
    Your question was “But who told McCone to make sure information was withheld?”
    Allen Dulles was on the Warren Commission. Duh.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    , @renfro
  168. Art says:
    @Art

    JFK Secret Societies Speech (full version)

    • Replies: @Art
  169. utu says:
    @c matt

    even if we did find out the truth, we couldn’t do anything about it because it implicates people/institutions that are too powerful/important.

    It is impossible to find the truth at this point that would be actionable in court. Even if some people showed up claiming to be the Grassy Knoll gunmen. Actually some already did, iirc. People make up stuff. It is over.

    • Replies: @ians
  170. @c matt

    Has our government not proven a million times over they are corrupt beyond redemption? What more need have we of witnesses?

    Exactly (And other sentiments)!

    The American government is out of control — corrupt beyond imagination. America is laid waste, and real Americans themselves laid as sacrifice to greed, to foreign invasion, to slave status in service to every oligarch’s whimsy.

    And namby-pamby, sniveling conspiracy chasers bemoan the fiction of a double-handful of fantastical assassination plots. Oh, comrades, our beloved pussy-hound president of faux-Camelot lies a-moldering in his grave. Alack-a-day! The trumpets sound, and pedantic inventions of “conspiracy” thunder in the lists, as they have for 55 years.

    While America convulses ever more weakly in its death throes.

    Hey, brother, can you spare a moment to hear my “4-bullet” conspiracy theory?

  171. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Very odd. I can access Unz via the full address of

    https://www.unz.com

    but when I write unz.com , I get:

    Error establishing a database connection

    In previous times, just unz.com got me to the site.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  172. I am continually disappointed by intelligent people, who I otherwise respect, who are unwilling or otherwise unable to suspend their “enthrallment” to the conventional reality that has been manufactured and presented to us as truth. Mr. Unz, I suppose that given that you have finally, albeit grudgingly, accepted (after 54 years) that Kennedy might have been killed by more than one assassin (despite the existence of decades of overwhelming evidence disproving the offical story), you might now consider turning your attention to the events that occurred on 9/11/01, and perhaps consider that three steel-framed buildings falling symmetrically, at free-fall speed, into their own footprints, when only two were actually hit by aircraft is a highly unusual occurance (so unusual in fact, that the probably of it’s natural re-occurance is near-zero [I cannot say is is zero since it has occurred exactly once, and only once, on 9/11]). In doing so, you will join the thousands of professionals and millions of citizens who have been branded as conspiracy theorists, for seeing through the “unreal” story (in the sense that the official story falls outside of the natural physical laws of the real universe) that is being fed to us.

    Please remain open to alternatives to the official stories — any of them, including the ones we are being fed today about world events, and always consider — as a foundational critical posture — whether the simple laws of the mechanical universe that we’ve known about and successfully exploited since Newton are being violated by these offically-sanctioned stories.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  173. Iris says:

    On Robert Kennedy’s assassination: the official version is that the late General Attorney was allegedly shot by Sirhan Sirhan, standing several feet in front of him.

    - Actually, aware of the ignominious “autopsy” reserved to President Kennedy, the forensic pathologist in charge, Dr T. Noguchi, carried a very professional autopsy of RFK, ensuring several peers were in attendance and including military forensic pathologists.

    - RFK was shot at point blank range, from the side, just behind the right ear. The bullet that killed him could never have been shot by Sirhan.

    http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/K%20Disk/Kennedy%20Robert%20F%20Assassination%20Clips/Item%20050.pdf

  174. Art says:
    @Art

    President John F. Kennedy’s “Peace Speech”

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Art
  175. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Here is the problem.

    We know the Deep State cannot be trusted. Look at all the lies it perpetrated under Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump.

    And we know the MSM cannot be trusted. NYT? All that bogus Russia Hacking conspiracy? NYT is a joke.

    And we know alt media ranges from provocative/courageous to fantastical/loony.

    So far, the best explanation I’ve come across is by Gerald Posner. I also believe Oswald done it.

    Also, the existence of a conspiracy doesn’t mean there was a plan to kill the president. There are OTHER ways to bring down presidents. Also, even when conspiracy is afoot, an outsider can do it.
    Kennedy could have been brought down by sex scandals. I wonder the Deep State didn’t use that on Kennedy and MLK.

    Right now, there is clearly a deep state conspiracy against Trump. Even so, it is possible for a lone nut to kill Trump.

    Also, I think the reason why Russians and US officials went easy on Oswald was because he was a LOSER. No one took him seriously. Killing JFK was the only way he could prove he is somebody!
    But having done it, the coward got cold feet and yelped ‘patsy’.

    Losers sometimes wanna make something of themselves by killing the Big Man… like in WILD BILL.

    I think there was a cover-up not because there was evidence that Deep State killed him. Even if there was NO evidence of that, investigation into CIA and FBI would have dug up lots of embarrassing dirt. A lot of foul play and their connections to mafia and other dirty details.
    Suppose there is a pimp who is investigated for murder. Even if he’s cleared of murder, lots of scummy details can emerge about him. That is why I think the Deep State didn’t want more investigations. Never mind Kennedy. Investigation should unearth lots of bad stuff about them.

    We see that right now. This investigation into Trump is boomeranging on some in the Deep State. It is making THEM look bad. Comey has really taken a hit.

  176. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Richard Posner’s 1994 Case Closed

    Richard? Is that Gerald’s middle name?

  177. @Ron Unz

    “Notorious Nitwit”! Indeed.

  178. Art says:
    @Art

    The Greatest Speech Ever – Robert F Kennedy Announcing The Death Of Martin Luther King

  179. Capn Mike says:
    @Jim Christian

    I could have written this. It’s EXACTLY what I did in Dallas back in the 80′s.

  180. Ron Unz says:
    @Anon

    when I write unz.com , I get:

    Error establishing a database connection

    Thanks for reporting that, and I think the problem is now fixed.

    It was a residue from the massive bot-wave that temporarily overloaded the website yesterday, which was also the reason we’d activated our CloudFlare DDoS defense for about half a day afterward.

  181. Not Raul says:
    @Skeptikal

    Note: I made some comments earlier on this thread that were misunderstood. Here’s what I meant: There was probably a conspiracy to kill JFK. People who talk about such conspiracies are dismissed as “conspiracy theorists” because most of the public is naive enough to believe that if there were anything to these conspiracies, conspirators would have been prosecuted by now.

    I just checked what you said. Sure enough, Dulles was a member of the Warren Commission. That makes me increase my estimate of the probability that the commission was part of a coverup. Putting Dulles on the Warren Commission would be like putting the Challenger’s o-ring manufacturer in charge of the Challenger explosion investigation.

  182. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achilles

    I agree with much of what you say.

    But here’s the problem. Today, so many officials of the US government lie and lie and lie.

    Instead of crazy conspiracy theorists versus well-meaning public servants, we have a case of public servants spreading all sorts of crazy lies about Trump-Russia collusion.

    It’s a contribacy.

  183. @c matt

    The claims I have seen is that a shim was missing so it was hard to zero it correctly.

    You would generally zero it to 100 yards at a range and then expect it to shoot high at less than 100 yards and shoot low at more than 100 yards.

    You would probably want to have paced out the distance first so you knew what sort of distances you were shooting at.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  184. It’s pretty clear that Mr. Lane knew exactly what “Magic Bullet” was all about.
    Those who can understand the connection between the date of Reichstag fire and
    why “Little boy’s father is assassinated 3 days before [the] boy’s third birthday”
    (it’s what happened to JFK Jr.), most likely will be able to better understand what
    happened on “11.22.1963, 06.05.1968 , and 07.16.1999”, or, alternatively, on
    “November 22-nd 1963, June 6-th 1968, July 16-th 1999”.
    Even better – what didn’t happen.

  185. @Sunbeam

    Everything good(and hilariously funny) in Dr. Strangelove was written by Terry Southern. Without Terry Southern, Kubrick would have made a film as dull witted and adolescent as Fail Safe.

  186. @CF

    Dear Sir:

    You know nothing about guns! The Italian gun you talk about is very accurate to people who know guns. It has a very good rifled barrel and is extremely accurate.

    Try these videos:

    Many of these so called cast off surplus rifles were heavy but very good shooters. It always amazes me how many people comment on guns and shooting have no clue.

    I do not believe however that Oswald acted alone. The whole episode looks like a classic intelligence op.

    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
    , @Anon
  187. @Achilles

    Former Navy marksman Jesse Venture did a TV show about him trying to hit a stationary target with Oswald’s exact rifle type at the same angle and distance by quickly firing three rounds, and failed repeatedly. He also paid a world famous sniper to try, and he failed dozens of times. Ventura also mentioned the limo windshield had a bullet hole at Parkland hospital that was replaced the next day and never discussed again.

    If someone wants to try this themselves and post a youtube video about successfully firing three rounds in less than six seconds to hit a moving target, do it! Otherwise, respect the reality proven by Ventura. I’ve fired bolt action rifles many times. After firing it takes at least four seconds to work the bolt and aim to fire an accurate shot at a moving target.

  188. @Robert Danielson

    Dude, what’s the problem?

    Plenty of multi-story buildings have come down after being on fire in Brazil, Venezuela, Botswana, etc.

    Just because there was a movie about a 747 crashing into one of the towers maybe a year before it happened is nothing to get excited about.

  189. DOG says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I believe JFK did not want Israel to obtain or develope nuclear weapons. And nothing was going to stop them even the president of the US.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  190. @Peripatetic commenter

    You would probably want to have paced out the distance first so you knew what sort of distances you were shooting at.

    In the FBI re-enactment, it’s 88 yards and a clear field of fire. No drop, no windage.

    Piece of cake. At age 24, my first shot would not have missed.

    Every bit of actual evidence that I find, 55 years later, makes it that much more obvious. Also very obvious there’s many a “theorist” out there who’s never fired so much as a BB gun.

    • Replies: @Anon
  191. Cleburne says:
    @Jake

    But certainly the Cromwellian invasion of Ireland in 1649, backed by the shekels of the rabbis of Amsterdam, was an early attempt by the proto WASP Lord Protector to eliminate the Kennedys several centuries before their birth(s). Right? Wheels within wheels my man.

    • LOL: Wizard of Oz
  192. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    Oswald didn’t desert.

    He was discharged normally before he went to Russia. It’s possible he gave radar and other information to the Soviets but there was absolutely no way any American investigator could have found if he did.

    The biggest indication that he was a Soviet operative is the fact that he was allowed to bring his Russian wife home with him. At the time Russia simply did not allow its citizens to immigrate.

    There were some Russian women married to foreign men, mostly diplomats or journalists. Normal routine was that the wives had to stay in Russia and spend years getting an exit visa. Probably the Russians hoped the couple would just give up and divorce. Some never got permission to immigrate.

    So why were Marina and Lee allowed to leave together so quickly? One thing about the Soviets , they liked husband wife combos for long term overseas operations, especially the stay in place for years until needed operatives.

    But the Oswalds were desperately poor and spies and operatives need a reasonable lower class income at least, so they don’t have to worry about rent phone food and basic necessities.

    The poverty is why I doubt Oswald worked for any government agency of any kind. On the other hand, Marina is probably the only Russian wife during the soviet era allowed to leave with such little fuss.

    So, who knows?

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
  193. @Achilles

    With respect to ballistics, almost anything is possible. The degree to which a bullet remains intact or the trajectory it takes is not predictable. The number of shots fired and heard in the echo canyon of a downtown area is not reliable.

    With respect to Kennedy’s physical reactions, we can predict fluid dynamics. The first bullet to have struck Kennedy was in the back of the neck to which he slightly stiffens and grabs his throat in response. He immediately realizes that he has been shot. He can’t breathe and with the impact so close to his spine, he feels full body pain. His body immediately recognizes the impending danger. The second bullet that hits him strikes him in the back of the head killing him instantly. The cerebellum, unaffected by the bullet’s trajectory responds instantly and his body reacts reflexively by violently stiffening again. The bullet enters his cranium and sucks air in behind it while simultaneously creating tremendous intracranial pressure by pushing non-compressible water in his brain out ahead of it. The water and brain matter escapes through a break through in the forward side of his skull and his head and body are propelled backward in the opposite direction by the same escaping jet of water and brain matter. No frontal shooter, no big mystery there.

    One of the earliest books to reveal the probable chain of events leading up to the assassination is Russo’s “Live by the Sword”. His findings appear to be buttressed by recent released documents. Oswald wasn’t an innocent but he could have easily been the patsy he claims to have been. It is well within the realm of possibility that Oswald was the lone shooter and that he could have shot the pattern of inaccuracy and accuracy he is accused of only to be abandoned or appear to be abandoned by his co-conspirators leading to the events at the theater.

    With respect to Jack Ruby, everything stinks.

    It is well within the realm of possibility, even probable, that Dulles, Hoover and Johnson, just to mention a few, had intelligence of something afoot and deliberately chose to ignore or suppress it. Their disgust for the Kennedys had to be a common topic of mutual disdain. They may have had a running bet. The Kennedy’s had created a huge number of very powerful enemies, people not averse to killing, who could have been complicit in the assassination either by direct or indirect conspiracy or by acquiescence. The copious flow of intelligence between the pro-Castro and anti-Castro factions, the Mafia, the CIA and FBI is well established as is the underhandedness of the Kennedy brothers.

    It is even possible that one of the Secret Service officers in the trailing car accidentally fired the fatal shot in the excitement as has been reasonably posited. We can never know but such possibilities go a long way in answering much of the confusing testimony of those close to the event that simply don’t jibe with the official explanation.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  194. @Ron Unz

    Sorry – I misread when the January 1 in question was. My apologies.

  195. @Carlton Meyer

    I’ve fired bolt action rifles many times. After firing it takes at least four seconds to work the bolt and aim to fire

    Boloney.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @prusmc
  196. @Tyrion 2

    The so-called Deep State are not the Machiavellian powerhouses of legend with grand plans and concerted actions.

    Wrong. “Deep state” may not be the most precise term. These are power elites & they exist in every single country worth mentioning. In modern industrialized world they consist, the inner circle(s), of plutocrats, military & intelligence professional high ranking people, as well as old centers of power which may vary historically (aristocracy, media, religion, experienced members of think-tanks …). And they, or some elements of them, try to plan things in advance for at least 20-50 years (it is quite another question whether they succeed). Any country that would plan its future for just 2-6 years is not a country at all.

    They are not killing people “to teach the others” because their cack-brained schemes don’t have that wide perspective.

    On the contrary, assassination had always been one of favorite weapons of power elites, as well as the force of intimidation. For instance, Stalin ordered Kirov to be murdered just to instigate a vast purge in the society & make it utterly submissive (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Sergei-Kirov )

    It’s a bit of a shame that the inevitable result of a corrupt, distant administrative state has been confused with a cartoonish concept for children and mental incompetents. It means that the wrong lessons will be learned.

    ? I don’t understand the meaning of this.

    I’m just confused by how one can imagine his theorised killers to be so smart and in control as to be planning for second and third order effects but also do the killing in such a potentially calamitous fashion. If they’re smart, it also doesn’t correlate with all that has been revealed and labelled as “deep state” in the last year.

    Because they’re so powerful so they don’t care about possible loose ends & consequences. They know someone, sometimes, somehow…will cover it up. If you are the representative of the dominant power elites- you don’t have to be afraid. You set the tone, and you have the winds of elected officials at your backs, the military, most spooks, most media & most big money.

    You don’t have to be impeccable, flawless. You just have to be frightening, and your power couched in multifaceted democratic society’s functioning.

    JFK was probably killed because he pissed too many influential people & organizations & had to be exposed as the precedent: the US President is not the leader with almost Caesarean authority. He is also not just a puppet. He has to know he is the single most important individual in the machinery he should best work with, not against it.

  197. @David

    You are OT. I can remember anti-Catholicism but also how little passion it aroused in serious politicians and other players. Do you know anything of the laid back Episcoplaians and Unitarians e.g. ?

  198. renfro says:
    @Skeptikal

    Pay attention yourself.

    You are contending that a former CIA director told the then CIA director what to do.
    I doubt that.

    Also pay attention and learn how to search for records that uphold your ‘opinions’.

    For instance how Dulles got on the Warren Commission to begin with.

    Nicholas Katzenbach has been credited with providing advice after the assassination of John F. Kennedy that led to the creation of the Warren Commission.
    On November 28 he sent a memo to Johnson’s White House aide Bill Moyers recommending the formation of a Presidential Commission to investigate the assassination. To combat speculation of a conspiracy, Katzenbach said that the results of the FBI’s investigation should be made public.
    He wrote, in part: “The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large”.
    Johnson initially resisted calls for investigations beyond the FBI report, which was being written that first week – see his phone call with Washington Post columnist Joe Alsop. The long-told story that Assistant Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach and Justice Department lawyers were pushing for the “blue ribbon commission” is now shown to be only part of the truth.
    The Johnson phone calls reveal that some powerful men outside the government played an important role in the push for a Presidential commission. Besides Alsop, these men include Eugene Rostow, Dean of Yale Law School, and Dean Acheson.

    You can find all this in the:

    transcripts of Johnson November 1963 phone calls from Nov 22 thru 30th

    https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1029

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @jilles dykstra
  199. @utu

    Are you attempting to answer my actual question? Of course FDR “outsmarted them all”.

  200. Milton says:
    @Johnny Rico

    Now, Johnny, don’t play coy. You know exactly who I am talking about: the Deep State/Freemasons and the Zionists in Israel. Trump’s a conjob. He was elected to put America First but upon assuming office he immediately decided to continue the Neocon foreign policy agenda, bomb Assad on a pack of lies, send support to the real Nazis in Kiev, and kiss Israeli and Saudi ass like there is no tomorrow. He’s the Snake he kept talking about during the campaign. He’s a ceremonial President, the very kind of President JFK warned about and was the anithesis of:

  201. @Achilles

    I actually am surprised that self-appointed avengers (of assassins or of notorious murderers in general) do not appear more often. At one time lynch mobs for this purpose were fairly common, but the only other single- individual avengers I can think of are the ones who killed Richard Loeb and Jeffrey Dahmer, both of whom were already in prison at the time.

    I guess would-be avengers rarely have an opportunity as clear as Ruby did (and his precedent undoubtedly led to greater security in the future).

    I have not read widely enough on this case to have a strong opinion. But I never quite understood those who believe a priori that Oswald could not be a lone nut gunman or Ruby could not be a self-appointed avenger.

    • Replies: @Achilles
  202. bj says:

    “Evidence of Revision (The assassination of America)” is a ten hour documentary of archived footage of the spectacle that fateful day in Dallas, Texas when our nation constitutional heritage was decapitated by public sacrifice of John F. Kennedy the President of the United States of America.

    I watched the documentary a few years ago, as I revisited the event which altered the course of my life and the lives of all Americans. The assassination made clear to anyone with intelligence and an open mind that our country and our lives are controlled, manipulated, and discarded by forces of evil in the background of the official narrative and history.

    The in your face cover-up makes plain the contempt of the unseen cabal for the well being of humanity. The coup d’état, began a massive social engineering operation to destroy the highest aspirations of mankind and induce apathy and insanity leading to the destruction of human decency and the collapse of Western Civilization.

    • Replies: @Iris
  203. The Mossad killed JFK because he was trying to stop the Israeli nuclear program.

    Michael Collins Piper, in his book ‘Final Judgment,’ explained that all of the “boxes” with parties interested in JFK’s death – the Johnson clique; the Cubans; Jack Ruby, Meyer Lansky, and the mob; etc – fit into a larger “Mossad box.” They were all connected via the Israeli angle

  204. peterAUS says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    If someone wants to try this themselves and post a youtube video about successfully firing three rounds in less than six seconds to hit a moving target, do it! Otherwise, respect the reality proven by Ventura. I’ve fired bolt action rifles many times.

    Well, that’s the THING here.
    Was it six seconds…seven….twelve ?!

    As for this:

    After firing it takes at least four seconds to work the bolt and aim to fire an accurate shot at a moving target.

    Something like that, agree…..

    Hehe…that’s why I remember reading, ages ago, seven seconds and saying “no way”, and then, apparently, it got extended to twelve.
    Funny, of sort.

  205. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymouse

    The job in the warehouse wasn’t advertised. The friend with whom Marina stayed asked friends and neighbors if they knew if they knew of any job openings.

    A warehouse employee lived right next door and told her about the job. Oswald commuted with him on Friday night and Monday mornings because Oswald lived in the city and spent the weekends with Marina in her friend’s house.

    At least the man next door was able to testify that on the morning of the asassination Oswald brought from the house, into the car and into the warehouse a long narrow package wrapped in paper grocery bags just the size to hold a rifle.

    • Replies: @ians
  206. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Wazzzz

    The number of shots fired and heard in the echo canyon of a downtown area is not reliable.

    Even with today’s technology?
    Are you sure?

    We’d need a proper expert to answer that here I guess.

  207. @Jim Christian

    Anyone who has ever hunted will recognize the kill shot wound in the back of President Kennedy’s head as an EXIT wound. This wound is at the lower right of the skull. Therefore the rifle could only be in front, and above the target. There is only one place the rifle shootist could have made that shot from: on top of The Triple Underpass. The entrance wound(a small hole as any hunter knows) is on top of President Kennedy’s skull hidden by his hair. The rifle shootist was one very cool operator, the first shot was to the throat to cause Kennedy to look down so the top of his head became the target, otherwise there would be a messy face shot, blowing the whole game. No shots were fired from The Grassy Knoll, only noise makers that sounded like rifle shots. This had two purposes. One, to cause everyone to look at The Grassy Knoll, the wrong direction, and two, as a signal to the driver of the limo to stop briefly, as is known he did, to give the real assassin on The Triple Underpass a still target.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
  208. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Detective Club

    First call Oswald made from the jail was to attorney John Abt active in both the ACLU and the CPUSA.

    • Replies: @Detective Club
  209. Milton says:

    If we are to believe the Warren Commission, then the high powered Mannlicher Carcano was fired three times above the heads of the bystanders lining Elm Street. Dealey Plaza is a actually a small space, as anyone who as traveled there can attest. After watching the Zapruder film, I see no one reacting to a high powered rifle being fired three times a few stories above their heads. A little girl running suddenly stops and appears startled for a second, but this is the only strange reaction and it certainly does not appear to be the startled reaction of one exposed to high powered gunfire in such close proximity, especially since the adults lining Elm just continue to stand there like nothing is happening. My contention is that if a high powered rifle was being fired on the sixth floor of the TSBD, then we would have seen people hitting the deck just below on Elm Street. We see no such reaction on the Zfilm however. Kennedy and Connally were clearly hit by some sort of projectile behind the Stemmons sign and Kennedy clearly had his head blown off by some sort of projectile, but I highly doubt it was a Mannlicher Carcano firing unsuppressed from the TSBD.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  210. For a new theory about the JFK assassination, please take a look at this book: Partners in Crime: The Rockefeller, CFR, CIA and Castro Connection to the Kennedy Assassination. Lots of new information and a substantiated hypothesis. The author makes a thorough analysis of both the coverup, launched by the Warren Commission, and what he calls the post-coverup, launched as soon as Oliver Stone’s JFK hit the theaters. He studies the reasons why, even though Castro was the only one among the potential suspects who publicly threatened the Kennedy brothers with assassination, most books about the JFK assassination simply ignore Castro of up front or discards the possibility of him having played a role in the event. The author also analyzes the reasons why David Rockefeller and his Wall Street partners hated JFK so much.

  211. peterAUS says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    Usually don’t reply to such…ahm…posts, but in this case I’ll make an exception.

    You are actually right.
    There are people, with certain rifles, who can do much faster than 4 seconds, of course.

    Probably, in a well controlled environment, they could pull of that very target case and hits, within 6 seconds. Would need different rifle, IMHO.
    I doubt they could repeat Oswald feat it with his rifle, though.
    SEVEN seconds.

    Would like to see that. Haven’t, so far.
    Somebody must’ve tried. Would be easy to post a link to that video. I’ll even buy a link without video but with good pictures.

    I just don’t think Oswald, with that rifle, firing at THAT target, qualifies.
    Far from it.

    Bottom line, if the firing took anything below 9 seconds I don’t buy a single shooter.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  212. After firing it takes at least four seconds to work the bolt and aim to fire an accurate shot at a moving target.

    This depends on the rifle. For example, it is said of the SMLE (Lee Enfield) that:

    The fast-operating Lee bolt-action and 10-round magazine capacity enabled a well-trained rifleman to perform the “mad minute” firing 20 to 30 aimed rounds in 60 seconds, making the Lee–Enfield the fastest military bolt-action rifle of the day.

    That is 2-3 seconds per round, but on open sights, not a scope.

    I figure three seconds per round for the rifle Oswald was using, if he had had plenty of practice with working the bolt on that rifle and re-acquiring the target through the scope while the target was moving.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  213. Them Guys says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    OT: I got the exact same issues logging on to this website as Carlton Meyer described. I was totally unable to enter site yesterday, until late evening. Then before the main unz page was displayed, I too got a full blank white page, then some wording about I am being re-directed to the website I attempted to enter, and to wait at least 5 seconds and it should allow me entry to site.

    Then last nite once on this site, when twice I tried to submit a reply comment, again my screen went blank all white screen, that same prompt to wait 5 seconds came back, then finally I got back to orig article page but my replies were gone and never posted up.

    ALSO, for some unknown reason many replies I submit to various articles from Steve Sailer’s article section, remain in moderation Limbo forever or close to forever, and then fully disappear while never at all posting up at forum. It may be Mr. Sailer don’t like my replies? If so ok. But considering my replies compared to many others here I rather think the main system may contain a Glitch of sorts.

    It is amazing that this UNZ website isn’t screwed with by TelAviv Pro Hasbaras or hacker censors on a reg basis like many others are…Glad it usually works 100% okay…But yesterday and today’s posting problems may need be checked out.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Anon
  214. Achilles says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Getting accurate shots off with the Carcano rifle in the time observed would not have been a problem given that he had 8.3 seconds .

    Researcher Dale Myers synchronized the audio from six different people on the scene taking home movies to arrive at a definitive version (go to the 4:00 minute mark):

    Zapr frame 160 missed first shot
    Zapr frame 223 second shot entered JFK’s upper back out through his throat and into Connolly
    Zapr frame 313 third shot head shot

    Oswald had 8.3 seconds after the first shot within which to shoot the second and third shots.

    I first learned to shoot as a kid with a single-shot bolt-action rifle and could have gotten off two rounds within eight seconds even with that rifle, back when I was nimble and quick.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  215. Skeptikal says:
    @renfro

    I contended nothing.
    I answered *your* question with a suggestion that a member of the Warren Commission who was also a former CIA director with a major grudge against JFK might have told McCone to cool it.
    As for the rest of your post, it is based on an assumption of your superior knowledge. You know nothing bout me nor who I am and what research I have undertaken.

    Geez, what a pompous bore.

    • Replies: @renfro
  216. Achilles says:
    @James Kabala

    Me too. The fact that O.J. Simpson’s body was not found in a sand trap or water hazard certainly shows we are not quite the racist, vengeful people the Jewish-dominated media like to portray us as.

    • Replies: @Anon
  217. @Milton

    My contention is that if a high powered rifle was being fired on the sixth floor of the TSBD, then we would have seen people hitting the deck just below on Elm Street. We see no such reaction on the Zfilm however. Kennedy and Connally were clearly hit by some sort of projectile behind the Stemmons sign and Kennedy clearly had his head blown off by some sort of projectile, but I highly doubt it was a Mannlicher Carcano firing unsuppressed from the TSBD.

    Well, here’s the solution. He had an oil filter suppressor affixed to the barrel with rubber bands.

    He then dropped the suppressor into a trash can and no one thought any thing of it!

    Video of oil filter suppressor. Surely all CIA associated badass defectors know about them!

  218. Iris says:
    @bj

    The coup d’état, began a massive social engineering operation to destroy the highest aspirations of mankind and induce apathy and insanity leading to the destruction of human decency and the collapse of Western Civilization”.

    The assassination of President Kennedy is considered a catastrophe of unprecedented scale by all decent and intelligent people, in Europe, in Africa, in the Middle-East, in Russia. His ethics were universal; his memory is alive and cherished far beyond “Western civilization”.

    • Replies: @Anon
  219. @DESERT FOX

    Indeed. Col Prouty’s book goes way beyond just the JFK assassination, it makes you think about a lot of reported history. Prouty explains the entire political landscape in which JFK’s removal had sort of become almost inevitable. His book does not offer any “whodunit” answers which, he says, is almost impossible and in any case not as important as WHY it happened. Conspiracy theories are not always the result of vivid imaginations of malcontents; conspiracies are nothing but instances of planning. All matters of importance are planned, especially matters of state. His book sheds light on some of the unsavoury types and instances of planning, and shows JFK’s killing as yet another instance of such “planning”.

    Completely endorse your recommendation about Col Fletcher Prouty’s book. It is a MUST READ, not only for the light it sheds on the JFK affair but for its overall political educational value.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  220. @niteranger

    Not a credible source:

    History Channel is a history-based digital cable and satellite television network that is owned by A&E Networks, a joint venture between the Hearst Communications and the Disney–ABC Television Group division of the Walt Disney Company.
    Founded: January 1, 1995, New York City, NY

    In the second it’s not a moving target and only shows hits. They might had done a dozen takes to get good video. One can fire a bolt action rifle that fast, but can’t aim each time. And the captions show it was produced to prove Oswald was the killer, even though Oswald was no rifle expert, scoring low in the Marines many years before. And no one would rush to fire three rounds in six seconds, they would take their time to get hits.

    And a fourth bullet hit a curb, some 200 yards outside the schoolbook firing line. It is rare for someone to mention James Tague, who was hit by concrete fragments from an unexplained stray bullet that hit a curb. There is even a photo of the damaged curb and that of a police officer handing the bullet to an FBI agent, then it disappeared.

    Warren Commission lab tests indicated a different type of bullet residue on the curb than used by Oswald, and no one explained the odd next-day curb patch over. In rare cases when this “fourth bullet” issue is brought up, no one offers a reasonable explanation, yet the lone shooter story has become official “history.” Some have suggested a ricochet, but the bullet hit a curb in the street far away, while a ricochet would travel upward. Too bad no one had a chance to examine the holes in the limo. It was gone from Texas within 24 hours, along with the dead body.

    If you want more, watch this short video of JFK’s Secret Service team being ordered off his limo shortly before he was shot.

    • Replies: @niteranger
  221. Them Guys says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    After reading what Carlton’s full reply here stated. It seems that there sure must be many persons with access to and that have totally researched and read all those top secret JFK papers they wish to keep hidden eh. You’d think sooner or later one or more would “Leak” them or a few very important papers.

    Like another Snowden event to alert usa public as to facts we have a right to know. There must still be too many persons deeply involved, alive yet that would get charged in the biggest crime in 20th century. Personally, I was age 10 yrs old in 1963, and by age of about 15 yrs old I stopped believing in the “Official Version” story about Oswald as lone gunman and most all else they told us was truth.

    I recall that I also first began to alert and warn people back 45 years ago that in our future we will see the promotions of a Global NWO, Plus a global push for a total Cashless society, with Money totally controlled Via Computers. And that the UN was a huge swindle scam and had zero to little to do with actual “world Peace”, and that once all forms cash $$ was replaced by a computerized cashless system, it would cause everyone alive to be 100% under total Fed Govnt. Control. And I also warned that we will also see a huge move to place cameras and microphones in every possible location so govnt. can listen/watch and basically spy on every person 24/7/365. Which will spell an end to all forms privacy, or close to all forms.

    Shortly afterwards, is when I mainly lost most friends and family etc…That was okay then since most folks like them pay little if any atten. or care of such issues….However now today and for some time now, the fact that most of them folks still remain sound asleep at wheel. That to me is not understandable how they can still remain as such fools. Even when I have given them a early warning heads up so to speak eh…I guess some stuff one thinks of, even without a good reason or explanation as to why or how did they come up with such info, is still going to some day get proven correct….Like all what I tried to tell them way back 45 years ago, long prior to people owned personal computers etc. And even now when I ask, Hey do you recall all that stuff I kept telling you 45 years ago?….Some do recall it once I remind them of the topic it was about, but thy still cannot simply admit or say I was right and correct since so much today is exactly as I long ago predicted.

    Basically I am kinda glad they disowned me, for lack of better term. No more time to waste on such foolish types I rekon.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @ANON
  222. gp says:
    @CF

    Carcano 6.5mm runs around 2300fps. That’s high velocity. It’s a powerful round that had exactly the expected terminal effects on JFK’s head. I shoot old milsurp rifles, I know what I’m talking about. What you see at Zapruder frame 313 is precisely what happens when you get hit from behind/left with a 2300fps 162gr projectile. To say “JFK was killed by a High Velocity weapon and Oswald didn’t have one” is complete bilge.

    Whether Oswald’s specific scoped rifle was accurate enough depends on the luck of the draw. Some milsurp rifles have good bores, some are terrible. I agree that Z313 was a difficult, extraordinarily good/lucky 1 out of 4 shot at a moving target in a short interval. I’ve seen no evidence that Oswald practiced such a shot ever, not even in Marine training. As other people have pointed out here, there were easier/more certain ways to kill JFK than this risky plan.

    The JFK assassination certainly presents an enormous quantity of strange facts and an even stranger cast of characters. How many returned defector veterans lived in the USA in 1963? There can’t have been many to choose from. Did the conspirators say “We need a patsy, but where are we going to find a wacko returned defector commie? Oh wow look at this Oswald guy, what a strange bird!” Did they pick the time and location before the patsy, or was the Dallas parade selected solely because the patsy lived there? It would have taken a long time to recruit/groom the patsy before Nov 1963, without any guarantee JFK would ever tour Dallas.

    And holy moly, do they get any weirder than that David Ferrie guy?

  223. peterAUS says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    This depends on the rifle.

    Oh yes, most definitely.

    SMLE is famous for its action. I really don’t want to go into technicalities here (plenty of fanatics posting on internet everything one has to know about it), but you can’t compare its action to Oswald’s rifle.
    “Rear locking” is the key.

    I have fired Carcano once, and remember the slowness of the action. It does have “forward locking”.
    Fired plenty of such rifle types and they all can’t be compared, in speed, with SMLE.
    Fired SMLE, of course, and, you simply can’t compare the smoothnes and speed of the action. Or, you can and SMLE will always be faster than them.
    Again, mountains of data about that on Internet. Hate even posting this.

    I figure three seconds per round for the rifle Oswald was using, if he had had plenty of practice with working the bolt on that rifle and re-acquiring the target through the scope while the target was moving.

    Agree.

    If…if he trained, as he was supposed to, for that.

    Again, we can’t, for obvoious reasons, talk about such topic here, but a professional would approach that in a certain way.
    Now…in reading all that (admit, not so much) I can’t recollect Oswald doing that training/preparation.

    I recollect him going to a range and shooting a stationary target at the same level. Not even at that very range.
    Not quite (understatement) a preparation for THAT.

    So, again…..7, 9 or 12 seconds?

  224. Coy? Umm, no. I have no idea what you are talking about. Zero.

    You have some theories, notions more like, and you throw around some terms that are popular now and then.

    But you make like you got it all figured out.

    Little short on the details, though, for the few dozen words you were able to manage.

    Like the guy I was talking to about 20 years ago and thought was sane until he claimed he had proof the government had secret bases under the Bermuda Triangle. He didn’t mention the Deep State, though. Was the Deep State around in 1963? How does the Deep State change leadership?

  225. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    Kennedy was just another publicity machine creation politician. There is a great deal of what is legally termed conclusive and irrefutable evidence that the election was stolen via the Chicago Democrat machine.

    No sensible person could possibly believe Kennedy, the crippled often comatose drug addict was a light of western civilization

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
  226. prusmc says: • Website
    @Carlton Meyer

    Wasn’t E. HOWARD Hunt one of the three tramps?

    • Replies: @Anon
  227. peterAUS says:
    @Achilles

    Of course he could’ve fired two shots in 8.3 seconds.

    So, again, how much time, altogether, for all three shots?

    ….definitive version….

    . as you say.

    • Replies: @Achilles
  228. bluedog says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Just because a book is best selling fails to make it the most accurate, only the most attractive to those with preordain convictions where facts seldom count or one trying to ride the same old bull…

  229. Them Guys says:
    @Not Raul

    For some outlandish so called “Suicides” reported as such, check out the B&H Klinton’s Dead Body List! Last I checked it it contained almost 200 dead and most everyone listed as “official Suicide”.

    One I read of had some guy as an aide to the klintons elections affairs I think it was, and he decided to assemble a pile of evidence and go public with it all…Spent like 5 years collecting this info, then one day prior to his going public with some tv news station. He commited suicide. But unlike all the rest of similar suicides on the list of persons close to klintons. This particular guy was said to have Cut his Own head off with a 10 inch kitchen butcher knife!…Yep report said he was found by cops on kitchen floor, in huge pool blood with the 10 inch knife clutched in one hand still. With severed head next to body.

    Is that even possible? To cut Own head clean off that way?…How did he get passed difficult part where back neck bones stop a simple clean straight across cut? And did he use one hand to hold his head while other held knife and sliced away? I too read a ton of other reports where some klinton operative or activist did a suicide by shooting self in back of head with long barrel shot gun 12 ga no less! and fired several pump shot gun rounds in back of head….but that guy who cut own head off in his kitchen…That one took the big prize.

    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @Anon
  230. @Achilles

    Robert Baer is a very shady character who once pushed the 9/11 inside job theory – btw he arranged for the setup of slain WSJ reporter Daniel Pearl.

    http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/98452.php

    Ron Unz now acknowledges being duped, but does not yet get that the NY Times fallback JFK conspiracy theory is additional cover. and smoke.. Jack Ruby, the Dallas pimp, was not Italian Mob, and knew Oswald. Both were part of a private non-governmental criminal , transnational network.

    http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Assassinations_page/Israel’s_Central_Role_FJ.html

  231. @syonredux

    No

    Final Judgment
    The missing link in the JFK assassination conspiracy [Israel]
    by Michael Collins Piper

  232. J. L. says:

    “In a 1973 interview published in the Atlantic Monthly, ex-President Lyndon Johnson hinted at a conspiracy behind the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, pointing to a “Murder Incorporated” which operated out of the Caribbean. Johnson was referring to Permindex (Permanent Industrial Exhibitions), an assassination bureau run by the Special Operations Executive (SOE) of the City of London’s MI6 intelligence service.”

    “Permindex was funded by the Canadian Bronfman family* and the wealthy Polish Solidarist Radziwill family. Permindex leader, MI6 SOE Colonel Sir William “Intrepid” Stephenson, had earlier deployed the Meyer Lansky syndicate and helped rehabilitate Lucky Luciano. SOE Colonel Louis Mortimer Bloomfield was an OSS veteran and Bronfman liaison who chaired Permindex since its 1958 founding in Montreal and Geneva. ”

    The recent pullout of the Iran deal “is a victory for the City of London, its Israeli & Saudi surrogates and their Crown agents who have seized control of the US government – also known as neo-cons. Their Chatham House Project for a New American Century (PNAC) blueprint marches on, nourished by the steady loss of US blood, treasure and credibility.”

    “Post-911 the US has been pulled into a series of unwinnable wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya & Yemen by presidential advisors loyal to the Crown. America has gained nothing. But the City of London has in each case fed at the trough of war-related government contracts financed by American debt to that same Crown.”

    “Through its Crown agent SERCO, the City has obtained billions in US government contracts from USAID and other State & Defense Department entities.”

    From: Crown Scuttles Iran Deal, Killed Kennedy & Did 911
    emphasis added

    *Justin Trudeau’s chief fund-raiser: Stephen Bronfman

    C.f.: Justin Harper, Stephen Trudeau at the Helm :
    The Trudeau Government and False Flag Terrorism in Canada

    From Robin Mathews on

    https://ahtribune.com

    Kennedy: “United States, as the world knows, will never start a war. We do not want a war. We do not now expect a war. This generation of Americans has already had enough, more than enough, of war, and hate, and oppression.”:

  233. @James N. Kennett

    yes, Kennedy’s security arrangements were by contrast pathetic. For instance,

    during one of the 3 summers of JFK’s presidency (I don’t recall which, but anyone interested can check his travel itinerary to see which one), he visited Yosemite Nat’l Park at the same time as I – then aged c. 16 – and my parents did. I’m in the back seat of the car as we’re driving up an isolated mountain road at considerable altitude, when something made me twist around and look out the back window…just as a ragged looking wooden roadblock crashed down out of the trees and onto the road behind us. My father turned off and stopped at the next scenic outlook (no one else was there), and shortly thereafter 2 black limos pulled in. Pat Brown – then gov. of CA – and a small entourage got out of one, and Jack Kennedy + 2 secret service bodyguards exited the other. Prez walked over and made some small talk with my parents – I was standing a couple feet away and Kennedy seemed 10 feet tall just because he was the Prez. Suddenly my father turned and made a sudden move toward our car. The two ss guys tackled and began beating the daylights out of him. Kennedy noticed I was enjoying the spectacle – dad often beat the daylights out of me – so he sidestepped to block my view. Finally my father made it known that he just wanted to get a camera out of the car and take JFK’s picture, so they let him up not too much the worse for wear and he got his photo.

    as to the larger issue, I think Roger Stone’s got it about right: VP Lyndon Johnson was the spider at the center of the assassination web. Johnson and Kennedy represented opposite wings of the Democrat party (old southern WASPS vs. new ethnics), thoroughly detested one another, and Kennedy was about to scrub the scandal-ridden LBJ from the 1964 ticket…checkmating Johnson’s Presidential ambitions.

  234. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    The Texas School Bood Depository was not a government department and the workers were not government employees.

    It was a private business that purchased school books from the big publishers and sold the books to public and private schools.

    Nothing to do with the state of Texas.

  235. @seeing-thru

    It is my thought that the same powers that hold the actual control over the U.S. gov also were the ones that had RFK and JFK jr. assassinated and MLK and many others as well.

    Here is another book that is required reading for understanding what is really going on, The Committee of 3oo, by a former MI6 agent John Coleman and his videos on you tube, I first became aware back in the 70s after reading None Dare Call it Consiracy by the late Gary Allen, it is out of print but I have a copy and it was prophetic.

    Only God can save America from the satanists who have control of the gov, and by the way they took JFK jr. out with a bomb on his plane.

    • Replies: @seeing-thru
  236. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Here’s how the police found him in the movie theater.

    His description was all over the news. A shoe store clerk saw a man fitting his description ducking into the doorway of the store when a police car went by. The man appeared furtive. The man went into a movie theater without paying
    The show store clerk phoned the police. The police found Oswald, a man fitting the description of the killer in the theater.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
  237. Them Guys says:
    @jilles dykstra

    If anyone still believes the JFK-Orig “Official Story”. They likely also still believe the Official story on the Vince Foster inside whitehouse office suicide story too eh? And how Hillary didn’t really spend 8 hrs in that room “cleaning” and Looking for papers etc story too. And per official foster story, his body was found at a nearby public Park, and fbi says body was Dragged to spot left at while No drag marks on Grass near body nor any dirt on his shoes or heals of shoes…Hmmmm.

  238. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @prusmc

    No. All 3 tramps were young and went on to lead normal lives with tax, social security records homeownership etc.

  239. @utu

    “It can be seen as a recruiting movie. Lots of kids loved the sergeant, right?”

    Absolutely. Recruiters in my day showed the movie to all potential recruits. But that does not change the fact that the movie had the opposite effect that Kubrick intended.

    As far as the article you link, again, I’m not so sure. Movies like Johnny Get Your Gun (written by a communist, FWIW) and Born on the 4th of July certainly do not glorify war, and the trick to that is to show as little actual combat as possible.

    Movies like Platoon and FMJ and some of the others show too much combat, which motivates the viewer to root for the “home team”. Sgt. Barnes from Platoon is a fratricidal psychopath, but at the end of that movie some if not many viewers are rooting for him to kick “charlie’s” ass. That is how the ultimate anti-war message is lost. OTOH, in Born on the 4th.., you spend most of the movie watching Ron Kovic attempt to put his broken life back together postwar after accidentally killing his own comrade and then becoming paralyzed from a gunshot wound in Vietnam. It is the aftermath of war that presents the best anti-war message, not the fighting itself.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  240. Israel’s Mossad was a primary (and critical) behind the scenes player in the conspiracy that ended the life of JFK. Through its own vast resources and through its international contacts in the intelligence community and in organised crime, Israel had the means, it had the opportunity, and it had the motive to play a major frontline role in the crime of the century – and it did.

    Israel’s motive for the assassination was Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion’s outrage at JFK’s opposition to Israel becoming a nuclear power, and that in his final days as Prime Minister Ben-Gurion commanded the Mossad to become involved in a plot to kill America’s president. JFK’s assassination served the dual purpose of eliminating not only the threat to Israel’s nuclear ambitions, but also the need for the AZC to register as a foreign agent. So when Vice President Lyndon Johnson (LBJ) was sworn in as JFK’s successor, he wasted no time in increasing Israel’s arms budget and also turned a blind eye to its nuclear arms development program. A further blow to the integrity and independence of the U.S. Senate occurred in November 1963, when Nicholas Katzenbach replaced RFK as Attorney General with the result that the AZC evaded registration and calculatingly morphed into the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

    Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman JW Fulbright became convinced that unregistered Israeli foreign agents were a serious matter in 1961. A classified staff report worried that:

    “In recent years there has been an increasing number of incidents involving attempts by foreign governments, or their agents, to influence the conduct of American foreign policy by techniques outside normal diplomatic channels….there have been occasions when representatives of other governments have been privately accused of engaging in covert activities within the United States and elsewhere, for the purpose of influencing United States Policy (the Lavon Affair).”

    The Lavon Affair referred to Israeli false-flag terror attacks on US facilities in Egypt, in the interest of preventing the handover of the Suez Canal to Egyptian control. The Israeli spies were caught and prosecuted by Egypt, while the disclosure of the attacks created a diplomatic crisis.

    During the course of the 1960s Senate and Justice Department investigations, it was revealed that Israel was funneling millions of dollars to unregistered foreign agents in America to lobby for foreign aid to Israel, set up think tanks, engage in Madison Avenue public relations, fund lobbying newsletters, and establish an umbrella organization called the American Zionist Council (AZC).

    Within the AZC was an unincorporated unit that lobbied congress called the “American Israel Public Affairs Committee.”

    On November 21, 1962, the Department of Justice ordered the AZC to begin registering as an Israeli foreign agent. This touched off an intense battle between the Justice Department and the AZC which outlasted both JFK and RFK. The bloodied and bruised Justice Department hid away its files on the affair until they were finally declassified and released in 2008.

    The effort to register Israel’s foreign agents clearly failed. Just 42 days after the Justice Department order, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee incorporated itself in Washington and took over the AZC’s functions. Since the year it was ordered to register—as part of the AZC—AIPAC has extracted an inflation-adjusted $250 billion from US taxpayers for its foreign principals. Influencing the conduct of US policy “by techniques outside normal diplomatic channels” has never stopped.

    If AIPAC had complied with the 1962 FARA order, by now it would have filed 109 required biennial reports (1963-2017) of its activities. It would have had to detail joint efforts with Israeli operatives. These include a 1975 incident in which AIPAC Director Morris Amitay circulated classified information about a proposed US Hawk missile sale to Jordan. AIPAC’s FARA file would have had to detail AIPAC staffers Steven Rosen, Douglas Bloomfield and Ester Kurz 1984 receipt of stolen classified information taken from US industry groups opposed to allowing duty free imports from Israel into the United States. Of course, the FARA disclosure would include details on two AIPAC executives, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, who from 2002-2004 solicited and received stolen classified national defense information from Colonel Lawrence Franklin about Iran and other matters which they passed to the Israeli embassy. The pair attempted to contextualize and place the stolen classified national defense information in the Washington Post to precipitate a US attack on Iran.

    The lobby that Israel and its supporters have built in the United States to make all this aid happen, and to ban discussion of it from the national dialogue, goes far beyond AIPAC, with its $15 million budget, its 150 employees, and its five or six registered lobbyists who manage to visit every member of Congress individually once or twice a year.

    AIPAC, in turn, can draw upon the resources of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, a roof group set up solely to coordinate the efforts of some 52 national Jewish organizations on behalf of Israel.

    Among them are Hadassah, the Zionist women’s organization, which organizes a steady stream of American Jewish visitors to Israel; the American Jewish Congress, which mobilizes support for Israel among members of the traditionally left-of-center Jewish mainstream; and the American Jewish Committee, which plays the same role within the growing middle-of-the-road and right-of-center Jewish community. The American Jewish Committee also publishes Commentary, one of the Israel lobby’s principal national publications.

    Perhaps the most controversial of these groups is B’nai B’rith’s Anti-Defamation League. Its original highly commendable purpose was to protect the civil rights of American Jews. Over the past generation, however, the ADL has regressed into a conspiratorial and, with a $45 million budget, extremely well funded hate group.

    In the 1980s, during the tenure of chairman Seymour Reich, who went on to become chairman of the Conference of Presidents, ADL was found to have circulated two annual fund-raising letters warning Jewish parents against allegedly negative influences on their children arising from the increasing Arab presence on American university campuses.

    More recently, FBI raids on ADL’s Los Angeles and San Francisco offices revealed that an ADL operative had purchased files stolen from the San Francisco police department that a court had ordered destroyed because they violated the civil rights of the individuals on whom they had been compiled. ADL, it was shown, had added the illegally prepared and illegally obtained material to its own secret files, compiled by planting informants among Arab-American, African-American, anti-Apartheid and peace and justice groups.

    The ADL infiltrators took notes of the names and remarks of speakers and members of audiences at programs organized by such groups. ADL agents even recorded the license plates of persons attending such programs and then suborned corrupt motor vehicles department employees or renegade police officers to identify the owners.

    Most special interests have PACs, as do many major corporations, labor unions, trade associations and public-interest groups. But the pro-Israel groups went wild. To date some 126 pro-Israel PACs have been registered, and no fewer than 50 have been active in every national election over the past generation.

    An individual voter can give up to $2,000 to a candidate in an election cycle, and a PAC can give a candidate up to $10,000. However, a single special interest with 50 PACs can give a candidate who is facing a tough opponent, and who has voted according to its recommendations, up to half a million dollars. That’s enough to buy all the television time needed to get elected in most parts of the country.

    Even candidates who don’t need this kind of money certainly don’t want it to become available to a rival from their own party in a primary election, or to an opponent from the opposing party in a general election. As a result, all but a handful of the 535 members of the Senate and House vote as AIPAC instructs when it comes to aid to Israel, or other aspects of U.S. Middle East policy.

    There is something else very special about AIPAC’s network of political action committees. Nearly all have deceptive names. Who could possibly know that the Delaware Valley Good Government Association in Philadelphia, San Franciscans for Good Government in California, Cactus PAC in Arizona, Beaver PAC in Wisconsin, and even Icepac in New York are really pro-Israel PACs under deep cover?

    In fact, the congress members know it when they list the contributions they receive on the campaign statements they have to prepare for the Federal Election Commission. But their constituents don’t know this when they read these statements. So just as no other special interest can put so much “hard money” into any candidate’s election campaign as can the Israel lobby, no other special interest has gone to such elaborate lengths to hide its tracks.

    Michael Collins Piper – Final Judgement -The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy

    http://americanfreepress.net/PDF/Final_Judgment.pdf

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wizard of Oz
    , @Iris
    , @utu
    , @Da Wei
  241. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @gp

    Carcano was the official infantry rifle of the Italian army for decades. So it must be a good rifle. Italy may not win many wars, but it’s weaponry coast guard and some other parts of its department of defense are first rate.

    What really bothers me are all those liberals who never even had a toy gun in their lives pontificating that Oswald was a poor shot because he didn’t score the highest marksmanship score in the marines.

  242. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @James N. Kennett

    Ruby – and his connections – remains a puzzle though the recent rape and murder of a young comedienne walking home through a park by a 19 year old somewhat autistic youth who turned himself in when he saw his likeness on TV is a reminder that murders and most murderers are abnormal. Intrinsically the Ruby murder isn’t something almost beyond comprehension amongst homicides (think murders of Family Court judges in plain sight). It is the connections that raise the biggest questions BUT…. Here is my main answer is that what he did and what is known about him militates against your theory that he would have been one of the conspirators i.e. before the assassination. No, much more plausible that he was roped in afterwards without really understanding the conspiracy. Would you involve a Jack Ruby in any big enterprise beforehand?

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
  243. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    It’s not easy to get to the president of the United States to give him a heart attack at night.

    Unless of course the entire secret service is in on it. Many of the liberals claim it was a joint effort of the secret service, FBI, CIA, military oil industry, KKK, city of Dallas police and right wing haters.

    Right wing haters, that’s us folks.

  244. @gp

    What you see at Zapruder frame 313 is precisely what happens when you get hit from behind/left with a 2300fps 162gr projectile.

    This seems unlikely to me.

    The entry wound will be small. The exit wound will be large.

    Please convince me otherwise.

  245. @Them Guys

    It must waste quite a bit of Ron’s time if you are thinking of the effects of what might have been an attack. Nothing more than an unsigned “we know where you live”??

    Do you think Ron was being warned? I don’t fancy the chances of an irritated Ron Unz being intimidated :-)

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  246. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achilles

    Fred and Kim Goldman must be the most virtuous law abiding people in the world.

    I wouldn’t be so virtuous and law abiding.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
  247. Achilles says:
    @peterAUS

    We don’t know how long it took for Oswald to fire all three shots.

    All researchers can do is measure the time beginning from evidence of the first shot having been fired on the acoustic record or from the Zapruder frame to the next shot and then to the third shot.

    It could have taken Oswald, say, 12 seconds total to chamber the first round, aim and fire, and then cycle the bolt for the next round, aim and fire, etc.

    The limo was travelling at only about 11 mph.

  248. @peterAUS

    Bottom line, if the firing took anything below 9 seconds I don’t buy a single shooter.

    “Bottom line’ you haven’t the faintest knowledge of how fast Oswald could cycle the action and re-acquire target. Not the faintest, my dear sir. Marina testified about how Lee would spend hours — not minutes — cycling the action on the Carcano. Smooth as silk and slick as snot on the proverbial doorknob. Clean, scoped, as rock-solid a platform as a sharpshooter Marine could make with cheap components. Certainly not a gun preferred by an expert sniper, but … at 88 yards? Pish. Known for its mild recoil, too.

    We have here several hundred comments made in pure ignorance. That’s how this subject has worked for 55 years — the clueless inventing clues.

  249. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Them Guys

    It’s because Ron is part of the establishment powers that be. He lives near San Francisco. So he may even be a member of the sinister Bohemian Club. Or even more sinister he’s a secret underground member of the Bohemian Club at the highest level right up there with Kissinger Probably has links to the Vatican Masonic Illuminati Jewish Jesuit conspiracy as well.

    I doubt he’s a lizard covered in human skin or a relative of the Queen of England though. But he may have vacationed in Belize, the secret headquarters of the Queen of England in S America

  250. This is a great video on JFK, doesn’t get into Israeli role, puts the blame on the financial/war interests. But if you haven’t seen it, it does a good job explaining the assassination itself.

  251. @Achilles

    The limo was travelling at only about 11 mph.

    That is 5 yards per second moving away and a slightly transversely.

    Maybe he was trained in the USSR to shoot at moving targets, but I don’t think his Marine Corps training had any of that.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Hu Mi Yu
  252. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @niteranger

    The Carcano was the official infantry rifle of the Italian army for decades. And Italian guns are excellent.

  253. @Anon

    I doubt he’s a lizard covered in human skin or a relative of the Queen of England though.

    Of course not — don’t be silly. He’s got to be a Hapsburg. The ‘nz’ ending of his surname is a dead giveaway.

    BTW, the bird is on the wing. Pass it on.

  254. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian

    I took the same tour. The window isn’t tiny. It’s about 3 ft wide 4 ft tall plenty big enough. There were a couple guys there who claimed to be hunters and veterans. They said it would be an easy shot.

    The car was supposedly going about 5 miles an hour.

    2 other warehouse workers were in the fifth floor window directly under Oswald’s 6 floor window. They heard the shot. They felt the vibration. Dust from the overhead ducts and shelves fell because of the vibration.

    • Agree: David In TN
  255. @Dillon Sweeny

    “Bottom line’ you haven’t the faintest knowledge of how fast Oswald could cycle the action and re-acquire target. Not the faintest, my dear sir. Marina testified about how Lee would spend hours — not minutes — cycling the action on the Carcano.

    So what. That is just one aspect of shooting at a moving target.

    Even the info I provided above about the Lee Enfield and those who could get out 20-30 rounds a minute relates to:

    1. Highly skilled marksmen,
    2. Only shooting at stationary targets.

    However, of course they had to reload after each 10 shots.

    So, sure, he could work the action quickly, but how about acquiring a moving target through a scope.

    I have not used a scope at such a low power, and can only comment on how difficult it can be to acquire via 8-9x.

    I can believe 4-5 seconds per round after the first shot.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Dillon Sweeny
  256. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @CF

    Carcano IS a high velocity rifle.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  257. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Lots of people had reason to want Kennedy dead. But few were in a position to (a) kill Kennedy, and (b) get away with it.

    Among those who hated Kennedy was Lyndon Baines Johnson. If Johnson had not been on the ticket with Kennedy, Kennedy would almost certainly have lost, what was a very close election, to Nixon. Yet in office, Kennedy treated Johnson with contempt, or so Johnson complained, and Johnson was not a man to cross.

    Others who hated Kennedy were the CIA, which Kennedy is alleged to have promised to “splinter into a thousand pieces and scatter to the wind.” In addition, the CIA operatives responsible for the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba hated Kennedy for his failure to back the operation when the heat was on. And then there was Allen Dulles, the CIA chief Kennedy had just fired.

    So there you have LBJ, the greatest beneficiary of the assassination, and the CIA, with both means and motive. In particlular, the CIA almost certainly had control of the patsy Lee Harvey Oswald by way of George H.W. Bush’s friend George De Morhenschildt, and likely Oswald’s killer, Jack Ruby, too.

    Once the operation was complete, Johnson, the greatest beneficiary of the killing, was immediately in a position to assist in the cover up. In that connection, Johnson appointed Gerald Ford to the Warren Commission that investigated the assassination, and Gerald Ford, who Johnson once remarked could not find his arse with both hands, was responsible for a rewording of the autopsy report, raising the location of the supposed entry wound in Kennedy’s neck by three inches to more closely conform to the magic bullet theory. In addition, LBJ arranged for Allen Dulles to serve on the Warren Commission, in which capacity Dulles played the principal role in shaping the Report’s dubious conclusions.

    As for the Mafia, who had reason to fear the Kennedy’s, they likely did the shooting under contract to the CIA, with Howard Hunt (one time boss of William F. Buckley, Jr.) and friends serving as bench warmers, according to Hunt’s deathbed confession.

    So pretty much everything falls into place, which is more than you can say of any other scenario.

  258. Tim says:
    @Technomad

    Raising questions seems reasonable while debunking with no counter argument doesn’t. There are many reasons to question the lone gunmen… less than to question the possibility of a conspiracy, I would maintain.

  259. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Brabantian

    Woodward’s partner Bernstein was the son of 2 communist federal workers who were fired when Truman became President and Nixon was investigating CPUSA federal workers.

    Bernstein had a real motive to get rid of Nixon. Good movie though.

    • Replies: @MacNucc11
  260. Brewer says:

    The author of the Magic Bullet Theory, dual citizen Arlen Specter:

    And the key player in obfuscating the truth from the American people was Arlen Specter, with a little help from his friends, one of whom would also become President of the United States.

    Specter would publish a book, PASSION FOR TRUTH (2001), in which he discusses his involvement in the investigation of the death of JFK, the Anita Hill hearings, and other controversial events in which he played important roles. On March 4, 2001, he gave an interview to Paul Alexander and John Batchelor on WABC, which lasted just seven minutes, during which he made seven claims about the assassination and the “magic bullet” that are not simply false but actually provably false as follows:
    (1) that JFK was standing when he was hit;
    (2) that a bullet entered at the back of his neck:
    (3) that the bullet hit nothing solid (no “bony structures”);
    (4) that he has “looked” at the X-rays, which support the report;
    (5) that there is no evidence of conspiracy in the assassination;
    (6) that we now know that Humes burned his autopsy notes;
    and,
    (7) that you can’t prove a negative.

    http://www.assassinationscience.com/ArlenSpecterandtheMagicBullet.pdf

    He is so pro-Israel that he could easily be mistaken as a card carrying member of the Knesset. His name is Arlen Specter (R-PA)

    https://www.mediamonitors.net/perspectives/arlen-specter-bill-of-rights-foe/

    Since the mid-1960s law enforcement and regulatory agencies suspected a small nuclear processing facility in Pennsylvania had illegally diverted U.S. government-owned weapons-grade nuclear material into Israel’s clandestine nuclear weapons program. The Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation received start-up capital organized by a mysterious former smuggler with deep and ongoing ties to Israeli intelligence. FBI investigations revealed NUMEC President Zalman Mordecai Shapiro also had repeated unexplained interactions with Israeli intelligence and organized a joint venture with the primary front organization of the Israeli nuclear weapons program. According to a 2001 US Department of Energy report, NUMEC still holds the record for the highest losses of bomb-grade material of any plant in the United States.

    http://www.israellobby.org/numec/

    The office of Sen Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania attempted to obtain a statement from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission according to documents newly released under the Freedom of Information Act. On Aug 27 2009, Arlen Specter wrote to Rebecca Schmidt asking that the NRC “issue a formal public statement confirming that he [constituent Zalman Shapiro] was not involved in any activities related to the diversion of uranium to Israel.” Zalman Shapiro was formerly president of the Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation at Apollo, PA.
    http://www.irmep.org/08272009specter_numec.pdf

  261. peterAUS says:
    @Achilles

    It could have taken Oswald, say, 12 seconds total to chamber the first round, aim and fire, and then cycle the bolt for the next round, aim and fire, etc.

    True. My bad.

    Still, how much time between that first “bang” and the last “bang”?

    All I’d need to have is that definite number and I’ll make my own conclusion about the “one or more shooters” in this case.

    Simple.

  262. peterAUS says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    …you haven’t the faintest knowledge of how fast Oswald could cycle the action and re-acquire target. Not the faintest, my dear sir

    That’s possible.

    So, can YOU pull that?
    I can’t. Couldn’t even in my prime. Don’t know, personally, anyone who can. I know, I know….shame. Well, we all can’t be “marine sharpshooters”.

    Still, when you pull that of, in a very controlled environment (not the actual shooting at the President of USA), would you be so kind to post, anywhere, your feat?

    If you feel disinclined (below you, probably) could you please post one, just one link to anyone who did the same?

    Three shots, within 7 seconds, mind you.

    Can’t wait.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  263. peterAUS says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    That is 5 yards per second moving away and a slightly transversely.

    Yup.
    Add vertical angle.
    And, add the most important: emotion.

    Oswald must’ve been “natural”. Whatever that means.

  264. BB753 says:

    Why would a Jewish thug like Ruby kill Oswald? Was he a distraught registered Democrat? This is ridiculous.
    So, what have we got here? On one hand, Oswald, a CIA asset (or else why would he been free to roam about after defecting to the USSR?) and Ruby, a mob member. None of them could possibly be acting alone, by definition. There are no loners in the CIA or the Mob.
    Now, Oswald could have been on stand-by in the library to shoot JFK if other shooters in other positions missed, or he could have actually shot and missed. None of that matters. What matters is that somebody shot JFK, and that Oswald took the fall.
    Who ordered the hit? Probably several people long dead. We’ll never find out. Of course, the operation would have involved people in the CIA, FBI, the Military and the JFK administration itself. With some help from the mob.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  265. Dube says:
    @Anon

    [Anon 242]: “-The Zapruder film shows JFK being violently thrown to his left and rear by the fatal head shot. Incredibly, this film was kept under wraps for 12 YEARS.”

    LIFE magazine acquired the film and finally printed the shooting sequence after — I guess it was — the 12 years. However, the one frame showing the president’s head thrown back and to the left was blacked out from the film strips across the magazine’s two-page spread. This was done, LIFE explained, out of respect to the widow.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @James Kabala
  266. peterAUS says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    I have not used a scope at such a low power…

    I have. A lot. Or so I say.
    Used even x2.5. Or so I say.

    So, I believe that the sight wasn’t the detrimental factor there.
    Other factors were.

    I can believe 4-5 seconds per round after the first shot.

    Agree.

  267. @DESERT FOX

    Thanks for recommending Coleman’s book. I’ll try to lay hands on it. BTW, since you liked Prouty’s book, have you checked out this website devoted to his memory and work: http://www.prouty.org.
    You can find lots of other great reading material there.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  268. @Bardon Kaldian

    Do you know a lot of these powerful people of whom you speak so confidently? (And in what countries) Otherwise you are just a theorising outsider.

    I’ve known enough of the people in my country you would have to say were part of what you understand to be the Deep State and I can confidently say that you would have to use your escape clause of a country not “worth mentionimg”.

    Then I turn to what I presume is your country. When I consider the conflicts within every group based on ambition, age, personalities, ideology, religion, sexual jealousy and much more and I consider the complexity of the the USA’s empire within a country I find it only just faintly useful and credible to speak of its Deep State at all. Of course you could write a comic fantasy about Allen Dulles and J. Edgar Hoover calling on the decrepit Joe Kennedy to get him to sort out the unsound ideas of his boys….

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  269. renfro says:
    @Skeptikal

    I contended nothing.

    Of course you did….and you just said it again —–>”’I answered *your* question with a suggestion that a member of the Warren Commission who was also a former CIA director with a major grudge against JFK might have told McCone to cool it.”

    As for the rest of your post, it is on an assumption of your superior knowledge.

    So the rest of my post…..which was from the tapes of Johnson’s phone calls in November ’63 which I linked…is my self assumed superior knowledge?

    Geez, what a pompous bore.

    yep that’s me….LOL

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  270. Anon[103] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Yes I see he is not Richard Posner. But tell us about him from your lofty position and save us wasting time on his work.

  271. renfro says:
    @Them Guys

    Sorry you lost friends and family……but the thing is most people can’t be changed….and most people wont accept any truth or revelation or question anything that would mean they should do or say something about it.

  272. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @donald j tingle

    You are absolutely right.

    I was in college. 12/30 Dallas time was 10/30 pacific time. He was dead by the time my 11 am class started. The professor was an ultra leftist. First words were a massive denial about Oswald didn’t kill Kennedy because Oswald was a pro Castro self proclaimed communist . Oswald was just a crazy nut. Kennedy’s being a very communist anti Castro cold warrior as they were called had absolutely nothing to do with it.

    All the profs and my parent’s ultra left friends claimed that Oswald’s pro Castro self proclaimed communism wasn’t in conflict with Kennedy’s anti Castro anti communist activities.

    Then the following year was filled with articles that the numerous KKK anti school desegregation Texans created an atmosphere of hate that Oswald absorbed.

    I think I read Mark Lanes book when it first came out. It was the same garbage the professors, the ultra leftists I knew and The Nation, New Republic and other lefty magazines parroted.

    It was the secret service FBI CIA Dallas police KKK The Rockefeller and the Texans who were against school desegregation *.

    The truth is, Oswald was a leftist admirer of the Soviet Union. He lived in a leftist Jewish neighborhood Bronx when the Rosenberg spy trial was going on. That was when “old Jewish ladies” passed out pamphlets he read about the innocence of the Rosenberg’s and the glories of communism. He was 11 12.

    His mothers poverty was proof of the evils of capitalism. He loved to read and spent hours in public libraries treading every book about the Russian revolution he could find.
    He studied Russian the whole time he was a marine.

    Oswald was a lefty. The left worshipped Kennedy. If you weren’t around at the time you can’t realize how much the left adored Kennedy. The left loved Kennedy even more than they love Obama.
    Soooooo one of their own, a self proclaimed communist who actually didn’t just talk but defected to Russia and publicly defended Castro killed the great leftist God Kennedy.

    Their heads exploded. The soooo much wanted Kennedy to have been killed by a segregationist or KKK or some government agency or even the city police.

    That’s where all the government killed Kennedy books came from. Leftists covering up for the fact that a leftist killed the president they worshiped

    Of course that worship was carefully created and cultivated by the old Joe Kennedy publicity machine.

    But leftists are dumb and they will believe anything.

    * school desegregation the worst idea of the 20 th century. The basic elemental cause of the destruction of our great cities resulting in 12 years of horror for millions of White children.

    • Replies: @FederalistForever
  273. @Them Guys

    Wow, that’s at the pinnacle of the “art of suicide” (shhhh – we don’t want copy cats).
    Incidentally, did this artist leave a note ? And what happened to his 5 years of materials ?
    Given the imagination of the US “Justice” system I’m surprised they didn’t claim JFK suicided…but perhaps the “magic bullet” was already adequately “out there” for them.

  274. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    As I should have noted, George de Mohrenschildt, who seems to have been Oswald’s CIA control, and who was a friend of former CIA Director, President George H.W. Bush, committed suicide on March 16, 1977, hours before he was to be interviewed by an investigator for the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

    George H.W. Bush was, as I suppose everyone knows, in Texas on the day of the assassination, and may even have been photographed at the door to the Texas Book Depository building where Oswald was supposed to have had his sniper’s nest. Furthermore, there was a certain Mr. Bush who made a report to the CIA concerning the assassination on that day.

  275. @JohnnyWalker123

    The identity of “Umbrella Man” is known. His name was Louie Steven Witt. The umbrella was a reference to Neville Chamberlain, with whom Kennedy’s father, then ambassador to Great Britain, had worked to appease Hitler. It was a taunt.

  276. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    Mild recoil? Wish I’d known that when I was expected to tag along in deer season.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  277. @utu

    Gotcha! That Jerusalem Post article you link is in fact very good but, if I were one of the UR commenters who tosses the word “liar” about I would say your misquoting of it is thoroughly dishonest. Bad enough so a judge would find your evidence unreliable.

    I discovered the problem because the reference to “Egypt’s sudden expulsion of UN peacekeepers” was made to sound as though it was a legitimate motivating factor for Ben Gurion or Eskol in 1963 yet my recollection was that it happened just once – in 1967. And that’s what the original says, making the point that accepting US assurances of support was all very well – until Israel is confronted by etc… in 1967.

    It gets worse. The article makes it clear that the same (merely verbal) pressure was kept up on Israel by Johnson and Nixon and Israel got away with its passive resistance until finally the “don’t ask, don’t tell solution” was settled on tacitly.

    So, Sir, a serious own goal – indeed a very serious own goal for those wanting to involve Israel. And you have sought to mislead us. Can we expect an apology and a promise to be scrupulously careful in future?

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @utu
  278. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Dube

    However, the one frame showing the president’s head thrown back and to the left was blacked out from the film strips across the magazine’s two-page spread. This was done, LIFE explained, out of respect to the widow.

    Who was seen in press photos was Jacqueline Kennedy climbing over the back of the open car they were in to retrieve pieces of her husband’s skull.

  279. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Them Guys

    Totally severed? Did they find some anatomy autopsy books with the chapters about necks underlined?

  280. renfro says:
    @Skeptikal

    No, its not “pretty easy to kill someone.”

    I said nothing about it being easy to kill someone. You must be quoting some other poster.

    It is easy to kill someone if they are naive about the danger they are in—such as many of the key witnesses in the JFK incident who just happened to die unexpectedly and somewhat suspiciously a day, a week, a month before they were scheduled to testify or to meet with law enforcement to tell their story

    And that comparison to being able to ‘secretly/subtly kill’ a President…which was what you first suggested as possible does not compare to killing someone who is naïve about the danger.

    You are not making much sense. ..not wasting any more time on this with you.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  281. @renfro

    I would like to see suspicious death reports subjected to the kind of statistical studies epidemiologists use to say “sorry ladies but 50 unexplained miscarriages in towns with names ending in -ville doesn’t prove that the postal service contrived it”.

    • Replies: @renfro
  282. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    George H W Bush was supposed to drive Oswald’s get away car so Oswald could hide out in the Bush family home in Midland. He’d be passed off as a cousin wanting a job in the oil company.

    But the battery was dead so the CIA killer was forced to make his get away on a city bus.

    If Oswald had been anyone’s operative, KGB, oil industry, Castro, KKK he would have had a car and enough money to live in modest security instead of being barely able to pay cheap rent, buy food and utilities.

    He would at least have had a car in running condition so he didn’t have to ride in a neighbor’s cat with the rifle.

  283. @Peripatetic commenter

    “Bottom line’ you haven’t the faintest knowledge of how fast Oswald could cycle the action and re-acquire target. Not the faintest, my dear sir.

    Every shred of physical evidence points to one shooter, one gun, one Oswald. Every one. There IS no contradicting hard data, period.

    Was there a background conspiracy? Entirely possible. Did Oswald kill Kennedy? Yes.

  284. @Carlton Meyer

    Are you truly clueless or what? I just showed you two videos showing how fast these guys can use these rifles and you point to some made for TV docudrama. I don’t know if Oswald did it alone or if he was a patsy but any decent shooter could have hit Kennedy. Big deal he was moving away…it was a straight shot! The car was moving slowly. He didn’t actually even need the scope; he could have shot Kennedy using the sights. I’ve seen hunters get off 3 shots with a bolt action rifle at a running deer in about 8 or 9 seconds and that’s at more than 88 yards away.

    First you say the rifle wasn’t accurate when it’s well known in shooting circles that it’s a very accurate rifle to 4 to 5 times the distance Kennedy was shot at. Oswald had more than enough skill to shoot the rifle and the rifle was accurate enough. Whether he did it, had help or was just set up is another story but it doesn’t diminish the fact that those of you who rely on the theory that no shooter could have hit Kennedy with that gun are wrong and don’t know anything about shooting guns.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  285. Bravo, another fascinating entry in the American Pravda series! I eagerly await further installments, and am very glad to see that Mr. Unz’s schedule has freed him up to write once again, as I’d read through very many of his previous essays in the archives already. As someone who was in an analogous position of first indifferently assuming that the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories were for obsessive loonies, and then being surprised by hearing intelligent, reasonable people repeatedly disbelieve the official narrative, this article was very useful.

    In terms of new media and the narrative, you may find it interesting to learn that two very, very popular, and fairly mainstream, podcasters, Joe Rogan and Dan Carlin, have expressed skepticism about the official narrative on their respective shows.

    President Johnson decided not to seek reelection in 1968, opening the door to a last minute entry into the Democratic race by Robert Kennedy, who overcame considerable odds to win some important primaries. Then on June 4, 1968, he carried gigantic winner-take-all California, placing him on an easy path to the nomination and the presidency itself, at which point he would finally be in a position to fully investigate his brother’s assassination

    This made me wonder if someone could write an entertaining alternate history novel in which RFK lives, runs against Nixon in 1968 and wins, and orders an investigation of his brother’s death while governing.

  286. @Anon

    A 6.5mm is about a .26 caliber. Small bullet, 140 gr. Heavy gun. Mild recoil.

    Experienced rifleman. Marines fire thousands of rounds in practice. The notion that a Marine couldn’t hit a cantaloupe twice at 88 yards, inside 8 seconds, is ludicrous.

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  287. @Laurent Guyénot

    That is so goofy that you undermine the credibility of everything you write if you let it stand as meaning “Johnson was behind the assassination. His fellow Texan Connally was an accomplice. The conspiracy’s execution caused the accomplice to be shot. The Johnson and Connally conspiracy needed people to believe the ‘magic bullet’ theory. Connally denied the magic bullet theory”.

  288. @peterAUS

    I can’t. Couldn’t even in my prime. Don’t know, personally, anyone who can. I know, I know….shame. Well, we all can’t be “marine sharpshooters”.

    Some day, any comparison to one’s personal capabilities will be valid reason to deny that others are more capable.

    Meanwhile, the Oswald shots killed Kennedy. No other theory has physical evidence to support it. Exclamations of “Gosharooney! It just ain’t possible!” notwithstanding.

  289. @redmudhooch

    Seems like useful information except the opening which seems to be unsubstantiated guessing and assertion.

  290. syonredux says:
    @Skeptikal

    “Don’t worry, Ron. I know that you’re not up to the challenge of actually reading Bugliosi’s book.”

    Gee, I think it is pretty nice of Ron to put up with such an unpleasant, snide, snarky, rude guest on his blog! Manners!!

    MMMM, I gather that you don’t pay attention to how Ron refers to me…..

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  291. ANON[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Them Guys

    Assuming you have gone on learning and thinking over the last 45 years what can you now tell us about our future – 45 years hence, or just 20?

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  292. Ivan says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    The US authorities in the words of one newspaper reader came up with 5,000 pieces for a 1,000 piece puzzle the better to throw everyone off the scent. When I was younger I remember reading a condensation of the Warren Commission Report and recall being impressed with its forensic analysis of bullet trajectories, keratin in hair and the metallurgy of metals used in making in guns. Later it occurred to me than one could write a whole encyclopedia on these things and still not come to the nub of the matter. It still is the case that Oswald was silenced, that is essentially how it was. Take Jake Ruby a Jew from the criminal classes; how much sympathy could be expected from him – a man running guns and whores – for JFK a Catholic, to go on and kill the “lone gunman” supposedly because he was all teared up at the prospect of Mrs Kennedy living her life alone? It makes no sense at all. All reports of Ruby paint him as a man on the edge, so as not to go deeper into that “madman’s” motivations. Certain US corporate interests found JFK inconvenient. He was eliminated by them. They are happy with all the wider conspiracies, blaming the Cubans, the Russians, the Israelis etc, since then all those who question the official narrative can then be painted as kooks and madmen.

    A clear, logical and definitive set of questions by Bertrand Russell can remain unanswered to this day, to the great relief of the real criminals since the wilder conspiracies take up all the oxygen.

    http://22november1963.org.uk/bertrand-russell-16-questions-on-the-assassination

  293. FKA Max says:
    @syonredux

    Here another book which I just became aware of today. It seems plausible to me. A very anticlimactic conclusion, but plausible:

    Lee Harvey Oswald’s little green book shows JFK wasn’t the real target

    In her testimony to the Warren Commission, Oswald’s wife, Marina, definitively named Connally and not Kennedy as her husband’s target. She repeated this belief in testimony to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978. Dallas emigres also testified to Oswald’s obsession with Connally. Moreover, there was ample testimony that Oswald bore no animus toward Kennedy. Indeed, he admired JFK’s important initiatives like the president’s efforts at detente with Russia.
    [...]
    But none of these conspiracy theories hold up when the events of the six months before Nov. 22, 1963, are carefully studied. Oswald was no coldhearted professional assassin under orders. The real answer to the reasons he took aim are to be found in his frustrations and obsessions. And the real tragedy of Dallas lies in the accidental death of a president who just happened to be in the line of fire.

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-reston-jfk-assassination-target-20161122-story.html

    Was John F. Kennedy the ‘Accidental Victim’? James Reston Jr. discusses his new book

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @Anon
  294. @Ron Unz

    Of the something like a dozen books you’ve read on the topic, would one of them be ‘Final Judgment’ by Michael Collins Piper?

  295. @utu

    Amazing! That’s a great dot to connect to the rest. Thanks utu.
    Most amazing is that Errol Morris doesn’t seem to have a clue of what that mean.
    If the umbrella man, standing at the precise spot of the assassination, says he wanted to send a message to JFK about his father’s apeasement policy, then Morris doesn’t see anything sinister anymore, just a “bad joke”. Very disapointing, and reason enough to despair about the inability of even smart people to fathom the deeper, biblical, dimension of history being played before their eyes.

    • Agree: utu
  296. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You have an extremely active imagination.

    Also, Stalin is not America. That’s crazy cultural relevatism.

    Besides, one person coordinating with himself is a lot easier than hundreds of occasional associates coordinating with each other.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  297. @JohnnyWalker123

    Yet another commenter whose footnotes need checking. The Wikipedia article you cite also contains conclusions that the evidence “does not preclude there being two shooters” and later conclusions that pretty well nothing can be said about there being a conspiracy but anyway there was no case against USSR, Cuba, FBI, CIA and others. Someone who also actually reads it may then choose to note that Israel isn’t even mentioned.

    Aha! The Zionists were already in control of Congress! In fact it has made me decide to add here that a conspiracy organised by and for Israel in 1963 is beyond ridiculous. About 10 times as ridiculous as attributing 9/11 to Israel (rather than, just possibly, some deniable foreknowledge of the 19 Arabs).

    Why? Because a poor weak Israel that could no longer count on the UK and France as in 1956, and still lived within its 1948 borders (from which Jordanian artillery could have shelled Tel Aviv I remember a Jewish friend telling me) was utterly dependent in the end on the US for everything guaranteeing its security. We know from the Jerusalem Times article misquoted by utu (supra) that Israel played a long game on Dimona and its nuclear weapons and the idea that someone with the mad idea of killing the US President wouldn’t have been slapped down as a raving loony by anyone then in the top levels of government is absurd. Remember Abba Eban boys and girls? He was the Cambridge educated sophisticated Deputy PM in 1963 and Foreign Minister later. He would have to have heard about it and one could easily formulate a plausible version of his response e.g. “I trust you are drunk dear boy. I really doubt that the PM wants to go down in history as presiding over a government which destroyed his country’s security in one reckless throw of the dice at odds of non- detection so slight and for rewards so doubtful. It is not just our neighbours that we would have to fear. I invite you to remember anti-Semitism and what it has done to our people. I invite you to remember that the United States is so far from being immune to it and having buried the Ku Klux Klan that it wouldn’t even let people escaping Hitler into the country as recently as 1940″.

  298. Sam J. says:
    @Amanda

    Amanda wins the jackpot. Michael Collins Piper has the best book on JFK. Probably why they killed Michael.

    To find out who killed Kennedy just look at who benefited. Kennedy was going to destroy the CIA. The CIA was involved with the mob(Jews) to kill Castro. Kennedy was stopping Israel from building nukes and tracking down where they had stolen nuclear material from us. Kennedy released “silver certificates” making the dollar backed by USA silver instead of the Jew backed Federal Reserve. A Jew(mobster) killed the suspect said to have shot Kennedy. Johnson, most probably a hidden Jew, moves into the Presidential spot where he allows Navy sailors to be murdered by the Jews in the Liberty massacre. I mean what more do you need.

    The Jews and the CIA killed Kennedy.

    The best video on the Death of Kennedy is “Evidence of Revision”. It’s on, or was on, YouTube. 6 parts. Watch it. It’s a film made up only of first person news reports and interviews. There’s no commentary at all.. You can see for yourself what people said at the time and shorty after. A Man who collected Kennedy assassination information made it. He kept delaying but he was getting old so he just put this together. It’s where I first saw the Ruby videos which another commenters posted. Lots of rare stuff you’ve probably never seen. It covers Kennedy, his brother and MLK at the end.

    It’s a 100% fact that there was more than one shooter. A House committee researched it and using police officers open mikes recorded at the scene found that the shots could NOT have come from one place because the timing of the shots was recorded and synced to where the different mikes were. It’s 100% there was more than one shooter was the fact found by the House committee.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  299. @BB753

    Common practice in political murders to kill the murderer

  300. @Edward Oxenford

    ” had worked to appease Hitler.”

    Neville Chamberlain worked to make peace not to appease Hitler. Neville Chamberlain was a decent man. He was replaced by someone who was as criminal, racist and morally disgusting as Hitler.
    The only difference between the war criminal Churchill and Hitler is that the former “won”.
    Churchill was put in power by the same forces that probably would kill JFK.
    JFK was also an “appeaser”.

    • Agree: Iris
  301. OMG says:

    Dear Mr Unz,

    I have learned more from your articles than from 50 years of reading the controlled MSM. Thank you! Your journey of discovery is similar to mine.

    But – apart from that – your easy style (not so easy really) is delightful and a pleasure to read. So, thank-you, from my heart.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes, renfro
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  302. Sam J. says:
    @Rurik

    Ding, Ding, Ding, this was exactly what I was talking about.

    The Jews and the CIA killed Kennedy.

    This is why we should get rid of the Jews. Peacefully if we can but by any means necessary. They’ve been thrown out of every single country they’ve ever been to in any numbers for just such behavior. These people are so hateful and aggressive you can’t live with them in peace. People have tried to do so for thousands of years and the outcome is always the same. It’s pointless to try. The Jews need to all live in Israel and let them torment each other instead of us.

  303. @renfro

    When a state commits a crime, or is implicated in a crime, forget that the truth will ever clearly emerge.
    Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince and Stephen Prior, ‘Double standards, The Rudolf Hess cover-up’, London 2002
    As far as I can judge, an excellent analysis.
    Without mentioning it it even explains the letter our prince Bernard is asserted to have written to Hitler, asking him to let him, Bernard, rule the Netherlands.
    Until now, the 1941 Hess documents still are secret.
    Historians doubt if they still exist.
    Were they published, then, I expect, mainstream history of WWII breaks down.
    This mainstream history is the basis of the EU.

  304. Sam J. says:
    @renfro

    “…The only people who could have gotten thru presdential security protocol to murder Kennedy privately and subtly would have been one of his girl friends…”

    You’re either foolish or a liar. Here’s proof on the day it happened. The secret service agents were called off of Kennedys car. Look at the beginning at the handles on the back of the Presidents car. The agents were supposed to hang on to those. Places to stand were on the bumper. They were called off, see for yourself. Then…he was killed.

    The Jews and the CIA killed Kennedy.

    • Replies: @renfro
  305. @Achilles

    Thank you for that. Quite brave to ignore the standard UR threadsters predictable sneer at videos and TV programs made by name–your-Deep-State-Zionist-related corporation. You may have escaped because so many online commenters interpret the Zapruder film and other physical records.

    However that may be I think that long series is a reasonable starting point for tackling the issue. I watched very critically since I didn’t want to appear ridiculous if I chose to cite it for anything and, with no ability to doubt its honesty because of clear falsehoods, it seemed to give a reasonably plausible and coherent account.

    Taking a leaf out of Ron’s book of allowing oneself to be influenced by the standing and credibility of people who express definite views on the JFK assassination I have to, by contrast, express some reservation about Bob Baer, the former CIA man who is fhe main presenter. Maybe unjustly I couldn’t be bothered with a Searching for Hitler series he did along the same lines. Maybe he ended up with a defensible view that Hitler died in the bunker but he seemed to be giving the time of day to quite oulandish ideas of possible escape routes and the like.

    That said, I recall that Bob Baer said there was one more lot of the JFK assassination archives to be made public and that it would, if memory serves take place in April 2018. Do you know if this has occurred and what may have been added to the series or have contradicted its tentative conclusions?

    One more thing. Baer clearly has Oswald in Mexico City and in various significant places. Others on UR say he wasn’t. Anything known? Anything to add?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  306. Sam J. says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “…Richard Posner’s 1994 Case Closed, the best selling book on the JFK assassination deals with all the major parts of conspiratorial thinking. …”

    Uhhh, no it doesn’t. It doesn’t deal with the House committee that proved through timinging to the gunshots and the time between them from the open mics the police had that there was more than one shorter. The speed of sound, what they used to time the shots, is what it is not what you fantasize about or whatever is written in some liars books.

    So you are either misinformed or spreading disinformation.

  307. Sam J. says:
    @Achilles

    “…computer simulation techniques…”

    We don’t need any of that and we don’t need any of the other stuff you wrote to know for an absolute fact that there was more than one shooter. We have the actual tapes from several different locations of the gunshots. It takes a certain amount of time for the sound to travel to the separate locations. By timing this we can see that some shots came from one area and others came from different ares. All that’s left is to find who had the most the gain from killing Kennedy and…

    The Jews and the CIA killed Kennedy.

    Anyone here who says that Oswald was the only shooter is deliberately feeding you disinformation.

  308. @Anon

    Nice. One could have a happy time fantasising the cars, drivers, weapons, meals, tickets, clothes etc that would have been respectively provided by CIA, FBI, Israel, Mayer Lansky, Castro, Secret Service, USSR, Bulgaria (hey! why leave out the Bulgarians who did in so many?), Keyser Soze….. I’ld just go with whoever would give me the James Bond car and accompanying girlfriend.

  309. Olorin says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Even more interesting, look at the findings of the House Select Committee on Assassinations from the late 1970s. They revisited JFK’s assassination/Warren Report among other things.

    https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report

    The committee was formed in 1976 and iirc published its report in 1979. The report was most interesting in what it didn’t say. For instance, they concluded that the Mafia, CIA, FBI, Secret Service, gusanos, Castro, Cubans, and Soviets were not involved…but avoided considering who was. They also concluded that it couldn’t be ruled out that Kennedy was shot by more than one gunman.

    I was living in the district of one of the members and followed the committee closely as a young news hound. It was also closely followed by some of us who were interested in the topic of theft of fissionable materials from US power plants. At the time this was widely discussed, including by media outlets like Rolling Stone, NPR, and the New York Times that weren’t at the time (((completely co-opted))) as diversionary shills merchandizing the Feelz du Jour.

    Couple pieces from 1977:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180619072225/https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-case-of-karen-silkwood-19770113

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180619072543/https://www.nytimes.com/1977/10/25/archives/rolling-stone-magazine-says-israelis-stole-uranium-for-nuclear-arms.html

    There is a lot of material out now on this topic. Notable on NUMEC/Apollo:

    https://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Atom-Bomb-Denial-Deception/dp/1515083918/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

    Reviewed:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2017/04/how-israel-swindled-its-way-to-an-atomic-bomb/

    NUMEC’s Zalman Shapiro died in 2016.

    http://triblive.com/obituaries/newsstories/10809808-74/shapiro-nuclear-fuel

    Note the mention of Cyril Wecht, a forensic pathologist who used to lay down schools of red herrings in various “JFK conspiracy” circles. I’m thinking e.g. of some docco I saw many years ago now, something like “The Men Who Killed Kennedy.” Israel never figures into any of it.

  310. ians says:
    @syonredux

    It’s a crap book. You’ve clearly never seen the clip where even an ex-wrestler like Jesse Ventura runs rings round Bugliosi regarding his bs theories.

  311. @Wizard of Oz

    It is not some “theory” or anything secret. Power elites is a common concept in sociology, political theory, historiography…. There is absolutely nothing new or “initiatory” about it. This is as accepted in ordinary social & humanist sciences as is evolution theory in biology. One of the examples of a limited understanding is famous Wright Mills’ work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Elite , but he is nothing more than a belated refurbisher of prominent historians & political theorists from Tacitus and Hobbes to Tocqueville and Lenin.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  312. ians says:
    @Achilles

    You’re mistaken. The bullet, which supposedly transversed Kennedy’s neck before striking Connally, in fact entered his back and only penetrated a couple of inches. Ford moved it up2ards. Check out the photo of Spector supposedly demonstrating its trajectory. He’s clearly holding the rods above the noted point of impact. It’s a total crock.

  313. When you assess your well placed covert believers in an undisclosed conspiracy (not just a cover up to avoid arousing warlike passions) I hope you bear in mind how many smart successful people harbour firm but very dubious beliefs.

    Yes one might well include that extraordinary belief in an Abrahamic deity that cares about and for us. Well, think about it: is that really of a different order, or is the psychological question the same?4

    My own warning memory is of a celebrated recently retired CEO of a mining company that had successfully taken on the bullying powerful unions to the great benefit of the bottom line. At a conservative think tank’s forum where he was a natural in better than good standing he bent my ear with assertions but no detail of the wicked election rigging, ballot stuffing etc. which the Labor Party and the unions would be perpetrating to a degree likely to cost our side the next election. It didn’t and I’ve never heard of that sort of complaint again though no doubt a few demented patients in nursing homes vote who can’t.

  314. ians says:
    @Technomad

    ‘Makes sense’. How? If Oswald was desperate for ‘attention’ as you, absurdly and with no foundation claim, why did he protest he was a ‘patsy’?

  315. ians says:
    @Anonymouse

    ‘Kindly Quaker woman’. Otherwise known as Ruth Paine who would be better described as sinister, malign and, throughout her life, connected to the CIA. This ‘kindly’ woman placed Oswald in the Depository, yet failed to notify him of other higher-paying jobs he was offered at that time, separated him from his wife and led detectives to items of ‘evidence’ they’d initially failed to find.

  316. Biff says:

    Unless I missed it, nobody has mentioned the drainage portal on Dealy Plaza where a guy could stand in and have a perfect shot(it’s just about 2:00 o’clock starboard from where Kennedy got shot) at the motorcade. I’ve seen it. It’s there.

  317. ians says:
    @James Kabala

    If you truly believe that syronredux is intelligent, then he has a bridge to sell you.

  318. ians says:
    @Achilles

    These ‘documentaries’ are laughably dishonest. The initial bullet hit Kennedy in the back and didn’t penetrate more than a couple of inches, so, instantly, the ‘magic bullet’ theory collapses. Also, as has been pointed out, there are more fragments removed and remaining in Connally’s body to debunk this theory. Connally himself claimed he was hit by a separate bullet and its impact can be seen on film when his cheeks puff out.

  319. ians says:
    @Chris Volkay

    Your ‘facts’ about Mexico City, in particular, are anything but. You are parroting the line peddled by CIA rogue agents who wished to bring down Castro. There is no photographic evidence of Oswald visiting said Embassies. The photo produced was clearly not him. Cameras, contrary to CIA claims, were working all that weekend, so where’s the photos? The person who phoned the Embassy had broken Russian. Oswald was fluent. Do you truly believe the Kostikov story? It reeks. What evidence do you have that this took place.
    You’re all over the place with regards to Oswald being on the route. That was changed just a couple of days beforehand.
    Your entire post stinks of disinformation and misinformation. Unfortunately for you, all the points you raise have been thoroughly debunked in the past decades.

    • Replies: @renfro
  320. ians says:
    @FederalistForever

    Yeah, this left-winger who was in ONI, a fake defector, a known associate of Bannister and Ferrie and an FBI informant, would kill a left-wing President who was making peaceful overtures to Castro and have him succeeded by the hawkish LBJ?

  321. ians says:
    @renfro

    The Devil’s Chessboard will provide the answers you seek.

  322. ians says:
    @utu

    Yeah. Whatever. Move on. Nothing to see here. Who cares? It’s like history, man.

    • Replies: @utu
  323. Anon[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    The scope mounted on the rifle was found by the FBI to be massively misaligned. Given that the US is a gun-crazed country you would expect the details of all this to be common knowledge, but in fact the details are rare and hard to find.

    The FBI tested the rifle and found that it shot 2.5″ to 4″ high at 15 yards. You can easily calculate from basics how far it was misaligned at 90 yards. Given a scope height of 2″ above the barrel, if the rifle is shooting 4″ high at 15 yards the barrel is actually shooting 6″ high. Assuming a straight bullet path to 90 yards, the amount the barrel is shooting high at 90 yards is 90/15 x 6 = 36″ high.

    In order to cover this up, the FBI testers then adjusted the scope as much as possible and got it shooting about 2″-5″ high at 100 yards. They then pretended this was the amount it was actually misaligned when Oswald was allegedly shooting it at Kennedy. The Warren Commission happily went along with this pretense.

    The rifle scope was eventually fitted with a shim under the front screw to enable correct adjustment. Now you might say that probably the rifle was dropped or something like this which put the scope out.

    However, JFK researcher John Lattimer (a believer in the official theory) purchased 4 Carcano rifles and scope sets identical to the alleged murder weapon during the 1960′s and found they all required shims under the scope to obtain correct alignment. (Shim fitting and scope alignment was not done by Kleins the gun dealer).

    Using a ballistics program JFK researcher Robert Prudhomme also found that given the figures provided by the FBI, the scope was misaligned by 36″ at 90 yards. There’s some discussion at Deep Politics forum “The FBI’s Fib About the Mannlicher Carcano”

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
    , @peterAUS
  324. j2 says:
    @Achilles

    I wrote another post to refute this animation supporting the improbable magic bullet theory

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/06/19/defending-my-theory-of-jfk-shots/

    There are enough reasons to doubt the lone shooter theory, and all counterarguments can be refuted if need be.

  325. @Anon

    . . . and the Secret Service was happy to let that call go through but not the one Oswald tried to make to John Hurt of the good ole US Defense Dept.

  326. Skeptikal says:
    @renfro

    Renfro:
    FYI, “of course” a suggestion is not a contention.
    Geez. What a have-to-be-right ignoramus.

  327. @MikeatMikedotMike

    A Clockwork Orange was brilliant in its prescience of a future England, it looks like it could have been made 5 or 10 years ago but was actually made 45 years ago.

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    , @Anon
  328. @syonredux

    Those that you dismiss and refuse to engage are all the richer for the time that you free up for them.

  329. Sean says:

    As anyone who looks him up on the NYT or just searches his name plus JFK can see for themselves, Richard H. Popkin was the leading proponent of a JFK conspiracy theory, not Mark Lane.

    Lane represented Jimmy Jones, and was there when the mass poisoning and massacre of those who refused to drink the KoolAid happened, Lane (he’d heard the machine gunning) blamed the US government for the deaths at Jonestown.

    The Warren commission kept secret from the public certain accounts suggesting Oswald while at the Cuban Consulate had offered to kill Kennedy. One thing is for sure: whoever killed JFK (and RFK) saved Castro. Oswald cannot have been the assassin, because he did not get Jodie Foster to pay attention to his existance.

    Oswald clearly cannot have been the lone assassin, because people who shoot the pres have to shoot straight, with standard ammunition and not wound people with bouncing bullets of weird characteristics like John Hinckley Jr. ricocheting .22″Devastator” ammunition.

    Of course when it is actually put to the test the Oswald’s ammunition was found to be incapable of doing what the Warren Comission said, ie bizarrely stable going through a body but uncannily starting to tumble after exiting.

    [MORE]

    https://www.npr.org/2013/11/22/246734533/using-modern-ballistics-to-crack-cold-case-jfk

    HAAG: Yeah. I think it was over three feet of wood, and one of the important aspects learned from this was just that this is a very stable bullet that as long as it stays nose forward, it takes quite a bit to stop it. And even though wood is not a more modern simulate for tissue, it also goes to the fact that if you just put it through tissue, like the president’s neck, it really doesn’t lose as much speed.

    It certainly doesn’t become deformed like a lot of people would think or expect.

    FLATOW: And you discovered that the bullet, when it came out, actually started to tumble.

    HAAG: Well, that’s true when it goes through a soft tissue simulate, meaning something that simulates muscle tissue in human beings, and there are a number of those. And no matter what Mike and I fired these bullets through, they stayed stable in the tissue simulate, just as they did in John F. Kennedy’s upper back and neck. But as soon as the bullet emerged into the air, it starts yawing or tumbling like a badly thrown football.

    And that is of great importance when we come to Connally’s entry wound.

    FLATOW: Explain that.

    HAAG: Well, Connally’s entry wound, when Dr. Shaw examined it and later testified, is not a nice round hole. It’s the consequence of a destabilized bullet, a bullet that’s going end over end. And when Robert Frazier, the senior FBI examiner, examined the clothing of Governor Connally, he also reported and testified that the bullet that produced that entry hole in the coat was destabilized.

    So if you use some scientific thinking, something had to destabilize that bullet. And one good choice, of course, is President Kennedy.

    FLATOW: And so your bullet theory matched the actual testing evidence and the actual – the body, of how it entered Governor Connally.

    HAAG: Yes. It’s easy to see, if one takes the time to learn about this evidence, that this bullet can easily go through two people. In fact, if you line them up and add them together, this bullet, from what Mike was just telling you about three feet of wood, would go through two people and start to enter a third one.

    FLATOW: So there’s no reason then to call it a magic bullet.

    HAAG: It is not magic. It never was magic, and neither is it pristine.

    FLATOW: When you say that, tell us what you mean, it wasn’t pristine.

    HAAG: If one looks at the Warren Commission exhibits, and they’re downloadable, the base view, looking at the back end of the bullet, it’s oval. It’s out of round. This is the consequence of slamming into Governor Connally while in yaw. That squeezes the bullet just like you’d squeeze a toothpaste tube and some of the soft lead core will now be extruded, whereas before, when it was going straight, either through the wood, through gelatin, through ballistic soap, or through President Kennedy, when it emerges from those materials, it’s still perfectly cylindrical.

    But not when it now slams into the governor going sideways.

  330. prusmc says: • Website
    @Carlton Meyer

    Mr Myer:
    Really enjoy your comments, factual and not fanciful is the virtue. I try to follow your blog but experience the same kinds of chaff that you note while accessing Unz REVIEW.
    ONE possible correction. Oswald served in MACS 4 or MACS 9 at MCAS, Santa Ana, also also called L TA in 1959. He was given a Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) from the parent command at MCAS El Toro. He was not a deserter. Also his radar expertise would have been working on equipment that landed planes and choppers. It would not have been hush-hush stuff, warranting a clearance but not TS. As I understand it he spent some time picking up trash and other house keeping duties so it is unlikely he had state of the art classified information to spill to the USSR.
    He was known to feel persecuted, had a run away imagination and exalted self importancce.
    A sick traitor but hardly a Kim Philby.

    • Replies: @Sean
  331. Bertrand Russell, among others, at the age of 91, saw through the cover-up immediately. His ’16 Questions on the Assassination’ published in September, 1964, are very interesting.

    • Replies: @Sean
  332. Skeptikal says:
    @syonredux

    MMM it’s his blog . . .

  333. @Wizard of Oz

    Update. To answer my own question about the further but, as it turns out, not final release of JFK assassination files

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/26/trump-delays-release-of-some-jfk-files-until-2021-bowing-to-national-security-concerns/

    I Googled “JFK assassination files” and got a lot more. This is chosen more or less at random.

    I would have no trouble thinking up many reasons why 1000 or so (out of about 19,000) files might still be held back as well as for continuing redactions but I guess the biggest reason given the huge volume to be assessed is that every sensible public servant would use the rule of thumb “if in doubt withold” and he/she would not be encouraged to overdo “if in doubt take it to the boss” especially after the boss says “unless everything is released there will still be claims of cover up so, as we can’t release everything, as far as I’m concerned I’m not releasing an audio which has an agent saying the wife of a colleague who is still alive os a slut and the station bike”.

  334. prusmc says: • Website
    @Anon

    Add Anton Scalia to the list.

  335. @Brewer

    True. From my earlier article: “Specter, who with an ironic touch of chutzpah titled his autobiography Passion for Truth, was the son of Russian Jewish immigrants, and, at his death in 2012, was mourned by the Israeli government as “an unswerving defender of the Jewish State,” and by AIPAC, as “a leading architect of the congressional bond between our country and Israel.””

  336. @James N. Kennett

    You mean Jacob Leon Rubenstein, the friend of Mickey Cohen, himself working for Irgun boss Menahem Begin?

  337. @CanSpeccy

    De Mohrenschildt’s death was ruled a suicide. The Sherriff’s report mentions that in his last months he complained that “the Jews” and “the Jewish mafia” were out to get him.
    mcadams.posc.mu.edu/death2.txt

  338. republic says:
    @Art

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/01/31/airline911/

    Interview of Rebekah Roth, (Methodical Illusion), who says that the AA flight 11 landed in Steward air force base in upstate New York, where the phone calls where made that convinced America that Arabs were involved.
    She said that the local air national guard was activated that day, but when they arrived at the base, found it locked and were told to stay at local hotels for 2 days.

    Highly plausible theory which could solve 9/11.

    Daniel Lewin was on that flight, an ex Israeli commando who directed that flight and landing.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  339. prusmc says: • Website
    @Mr. Grey

    If you buy the idea that Allen Dulles still controlled the CIA two years after he was fired, does it follow that John Brennan still controls the CIA 18 months after his release from duty?
    Moreover, FBI was corrupt until Hoover died is it now clean and incorruptible?

  340. @seeing-thru

    I have and have his book The Secret Team, which is a good book on the CIA.

  341. Sean says:

    Obit of a believer who named LBJ as having orchestrated the death of Kennedy

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/architect-demise-story-george-lazenby-one-bond-wonder/
    13 MARCH 2017 • 5:00PM
    In April of 1971, a man in need of a haircut and sporting a scraggly beard sat down on a British talk show, where he proceeded to rail off a list of US senators he believed were intimately involved in the assassination of JFK. The man was allegedly inebriated, the talk show host embarrassed and shortly fired soon after, and watching at home were an array of Hollywood producers, who could only hide their shame that, just several years prior, they had cast the rambling, seemingly paranoid gentleman as James Bond.

    George Lazenby later said “I wanted to be James Bond, but you can’t live like that”.He was smoking a lot of pot, then and after.

    Another obit of a believer

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2005/may/07/guardianobituaries.obituaries1

    In the field of the history of philosophy, Richard Popkin, who has died aged 81, was best known for his work on scepticism, and especially for his classic study The History Of Scepticism From Erasmus To Descartes (1960).

    Philosopher John Gray in The Soul of the Marionette :

    For all his scepticism, Popkin seems to have believed that human events cannot be without meaning; behind the scenes, someone must be in control. There is another possibility, though. Human beings act, certainly. But none of them knows why they act as they do. There is a scattering of facts, which can be known and reported. Beyond these facts are the stories that are told. Human beings may behave like puppets, but no one is pulling the strings

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  342. @Tyrion 2

    I cannot compensate anyone’s lack of historical knowledge (nor do I intend to). There is no Grand Single Conspiracy, but there are innumerable conspiracies, false flags, conspiracies as part of broader historical & civilizational processes..

    No conspiracy:

    * fall of Rome
    * Mongol expansion
    * European age of exploration
    * the Renaissance
    * the Enlightenment
    * Industrial revolution
    * formation of European monarchies, then, later, nation-states
    * early stages of formation of European Union
    ….

    On the other hand:

    * French Revolution- mostly non-conspiratorial with some conspiracy in various phases
    * Franco-Prussian war 1871- Bismarck’s conspiracy
    * war between states 1861-1865-no conspiracy
    * age of American Imperialism- conspiracy
    * mass import of cheap labor, Ellis Island- partly a conspiracy by Carnegie, Rockefeller etc.
    * US entries into WW1 & and WW2- elements of conspiracy
    * Russian revolution in 1905- no conspiracy
    * Russian revolution in February 1917- a few elements of a conspiracy
    * Russian revolution in October 1917- conspiracy
    * Nazi rise to power 1933- mostly, no conspiracy
    * JFK assassination- conspiracy
    * fall of communism & disintegration of USSR in 1990s- no conspiracy, but later elements of various conspiracies
    * Tien an Men- conspiracy
    * 11/9- probably elements of conspiracy, too many candidates
    * migrant crisis- strongly suggestive of elements of various conspiracies, although not reducible to it
    * Trump’s election- not a conspiracy
    * media & various public and secret reactions & machinations to Trump’s election- a web of conspiracies

  343. @Dillon Sweeny

    You sound like Syonredux … did you change your identity?

  344. @Bardon Kaldian

    With respect, you are confirming my point. I’ll concede that you know as much as Hobbes or Tocqueville or Lenin about the detail of who’s up who, who’s pissing in who’s pocket, who will never agree with whom because of envy, who will do anything to frustrate whom at whatever cost just out of sexual jealousy, who can be bought off, who thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room, who usually is the smartest guy in the room and just smiles and listens and so on and on.

    As a great judge said to me in my youth “the minor premise is all important” – he would probably have rendered that cliché “the devil is in the detail in Latin or Greek”. He was, I have often thought, the most observant person I have ever met. And he wouldn’t have been impressed by your abstract generalising. (He couldn’t wait to pounce on any law professors who were unwise enough to appear in his court who thought that they could utter general propositions and not get down to the grittiest of details – the who, when, where, with what, with what motive, on what evidence).

  345. @Dillon Sweeny

    A 6.5mm is about a .26 caliber. Small bullet, 140 gr. Heavy gun. Mild recoil.

    Wikipedia lists it as a 162 gr bullet.

    Falsus in uno …

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  346. @Sam J.

    According to a link given by another commenter relying on the House Committee to support conspiracy all that was concluded was that the possibility that there were two shooters. Definitely not 100 per cent that there was more than one. So would you care to revisit your source and firm up the detail for us?

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  347. jharry3 says:

    Jim Garrison is absolutely real and did way more than the movie portrays. The rules of law meant nothing to this man.

  348. anonymous[185] • Disclaimer says:

    If this had happened in Russia or elsewhere, with the main suspect dying in police custody, there’d be no question about it. It would be considered a conspiracy and the official explanation a pathetic lie. Yet, because it happened so close to home people’s judgement on it was incapable of being objective. It was pretty much a coup. Although Lane’s book was a best seller fairly early on and there’s been other books since then, notice that no one has ever been convicted or had any action taken against them apart from the much maligned Garrison trial. They acted with impunity and have been immune to being brought to justice. The deep state, or whatever one wants to call it, can protect itself no matter the depth of it’s behavior. It’s their story and they’re sticking to it so try to do something about it.

  349. BB753 says:
    @Anon

    “If the Deep State were to take out Trump, how would they do it?”

    Induced fatal heart attack.

  350. Wade says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You and Sam Shama are both familiar with the literary technique called “Hyperbole”, no? Like saying “wow, my suitcase weighs a ton”. The speaker assumes that you understand he’s not saying the suitcase literally weighs 2000 lbs.

    Ron’s point is simply that the general silence of the MSM in the face of so many well researched books and evidence regarding a conspiracy to kill JFK had created such a strong impression on him that for most of his life he simply never took such conspiracies seriously even in the slightest. Coming to the realization that one of your most basic assumptions about the world is completely false is a pretty big shock, rather as if one were to discover that the Earth is really flat. See, hyperbole! It makes a person’s subjective feelings more tangible to the reader and their writing a little more upbeat and interesting.

    You’re welcome.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  351. I had an experience just like the author. I originally accepted the Warren Commission report and I was disdainful of those claiming a conspiracy. Years later – just by coincidence – a personal experience caused me to doubt the veracity of the Warren Commission. I started researching it myself, even going so far as to read from copies of original documents immediately prepared in the aftermath of the assassination. For instance, the reports of the doctors at Parkland Hospital, who treated Kennedy, assumed from the small size of Kennedy’s throat wound, that it was an entrance wound and not an exit wound. According to the Warren Commission report, this would be impossible.

    I ended up not knowing what to believe.

    I did come to one conclusion. The media in America is not to be trusted. Over the years it became obvious that something or some group was exercising a powerful influence on what was being reported and what was not being reported. More importantly, some vested interest tried as hard as they could (unsuccessfully in the end) to marginalize those seeking to question the Warren Commission. The whole thing was an illuminating experience.

    • Replies: @Wade
  352. Sean says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Nietzsche:

    The philosophical objective outlook can therefore be a sign that will and strength are small. For strength organizes what is close and closest; “men of knowledge,” who desire only to ascertain what is, are those who cannot fix anything as it ought to be.

    Bertrand Russell was not someone who could have actually done it himself, he might therefore be forgiven for thinking that no one could.

    I would be more interested in what Audie Murphy had to say about it. I suspect that as a undersized Texan (like Oswald) who spent time in an orphanage (like Oswald) tried to join the Marines (like Oswald), and had a predilection for assaulting people and firearms (like Oswald) Murphy would have thought it quite likely that Oswald, a little guy with a chip on his shoulder, had all the earmarks of someone willing to wager against the odds and maybe successfully assassinate Kennedy.

  353. @CanSpeccy

    No I don’t really think you should have bothered to mention poor Geotge. I followed your link and then read the whole article – here

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt?wprov=sfla1

    If you read it (again?) you will not call him a “friend” of George H.W. Bush (rather one of those sllightly sad acquaintances from years back who writes you one of those “you may remember we used to meet occasionaly at….” letters when he can’t find anyone else to solve his problem).
    Also you will surely agree that there was not the slightest reason shown for anyone – not being one of his four ex wives – to kill the poor sad bugger. No reason to doubt suicide. What he was doing apparently befriending Oswald is not easy to imagine but it probably affirms his status as someone with no regular employment rather than a friend of George Bush and accordingly easily flattered or cajoled into cheaply keeping a tag on the odd character with a dodgy past that Oswald was.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @CanSpeccy
  354. @Wade

    You are probably right. I just found it a little odd that it appeared in his piece for us in that form rather than just in private correspondence.

  355. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anon

    Your point being?

    • Replies: @Anon
  356. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @OMG

    Dear Mr Unz, …

    your easy style (not so easy really) is delightful and a pleasure to read. So, thank-you, from my heart.

    Yes, for polished verbiage, Ron gets an A.But as scholarship, this piece deserves an F. Unfortunately most “well educated” Americans can’t tell the difference between polished verbiage and scholarship, and hence are led by the nose by the NY Times, the New Yorker and the rest of the upper end media that spin a web of lies that conceal the crimes of empire.

  357. Che Guava says:

    Too many comments for Mr. Unz to be likely to read this, maybe re-post it on part II.

    Garrison was, of course, a real person.

    Just want to list my favourite literary and popular-culture takes on it.

    Number one, in Robert Anton Wilson’s The Illiminatus! Trilogy, the scene is handled beautifully, gunmen from different factions who want to kill JFK are virtually stepping on each other. That trilogy is too hippy-gen. for my tastes at times, but includes many other brilliant points of humour, among many others, a wonderful multi-level parody of Ayn Rand, both as a character and adaptation of plot points from Atlas Shrugged.

    An English magazine titled Vague, using the same typeface as Vogue, somewhat similar to the then Goads’ Answer Me, but informed by Situationism via punk rock and printed in better style, used a graphic of the Dallas motorcade with a thought bubble from JFK’s head ‘I’m paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?’ as a kind of signature graphic.

    J.G. Ballard’s short story The Assassination of John F. Kennedy Considered as a Downhill Motor Race is one of his (R.I.P..) best experimental works.

    In the television series Dark Skies, he is assassinated just after learning about alien mind parasites

    Late last decade, there was a three-D shooting game called ‘JFK Reloaded’. The point was a cash prize for whoever managed the single-gun shot. I don’t know if anyone ever won the prize.the official site was long ago taken down by Kennedy family legal action. The interesting thing was that the game had a fairly simple scripting engine, there were many parody videos.

    Saw the seventies B-movie Executive Action
    about 15 years ago,

    The interesting thing about that one (aside from being a really good B-movie) is that the end credits include a long list of people who had some association and untimely deaths afterwards.

  358. MacNucc11 says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    They just went way over the top with painting this guy as a likely shooter. It is pretty laughable really. A letter to his brother stating his intentions? Give me a break. Oswald was clearly a plant and all this information we have about him is how you can tell. They are clearly overselling it.

  359. @CanSpeccy

    There is good reason to believe Lyndon Johnson was involved in some kind of plot to kill John Kennedy.

    But he was not the person with the most to gain from JFK’s death. The people with the most to gain from JFK’s death were those governing the state of Israel.

    Fact: JFK and RFK were in position to 1) Stop Israeli’s nuclear program and 2) Prevent what became AIPAC from attaining its later power. After JFK’s death, followed by the assassination of RFK, both of these things went into overdrive and Israel has ever since been in a deeply entrenched strong point when it comes to influencing America.

    The fact that LBJ was rather deeply compromised by Zionist interests is the proverbial icing on the cake.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  360. Sean says:
    @prusmc

    Philby was outed as a Soviet agent by Flora Solomon for writing articles that were critical of Israel. It was rather comical that someone who had married a communist in the mid 30′s and then been active in organisations promoting commercial cooperation with Nazi Germany was allowed to join MI6 in 1940. and put in charge of antiSoviet operations within a few years.

    A KGB analyst tasked with assessing the early Philby thought the amount of material he was providing meant either he was a plant or MI6 were incredibly stupid. I suppose Fuchs, now considered irrelevant to the Siviet actually making a bomb,, must be the most significant spy, because the H bomb was developed by other people from the starting point of an inspired idea he had. The most capable class of people were communist sympathizers of even agents to an astonishing degree back then.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  361. @Carlton Meyer

    The name of L. Fletcher Prouty on this thread rang a bell that didn’t flatter any image I retained of him. Your link brought it back. He had never been of great seniority or importance and the words of a witty former Foreign Minister of ours came back : he was suffering from “relevance deprivation syndrome”.

    • Replies: @lysias
  362. MacNucc11 says:
    @Chase

    That is the same point I constantly drill into people. It is common as dirt. Business as usual. So some people decide to call it conspiracy. I read once that the U.S. government has more than 50% of the people in federal prison for “conspiracy to commit……” So the government itself clearly believes in conspiracy theories.

  363. Rags says:

    Mr. Unz, You’re a slow learner.

  364. MacNucc11 says:
    @Biff

    But this is a faked up Oswald to look like the typical malcontent. Falls apart though that he does not care to take credit for his feat of marksmanship.

  365. g a says:

    OK, now they can apologize for lying about everything else.

    https://dissidentvoice.org/2017/09/civics/

    And make them pay for it, too. Give the Sulzbergers and Ann Wright the kind of once-over Hans Fritzsche got at Nuremberg.

    With this wave of people publicly shedding their indoctrination, CIA’s going to have to kill another Kennedy soon.

    http://edwardcurtin.com/american-values-lessons-i-learned-from-my-family-by-robert-f-kennedy-jr-a-review/

  366. WhoTF cares about any of this?

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Anon
  367. MacNucc11 says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    I remember watching a mini series on tv in the 80s that was loosely based on the Kennedys. It starred Brian Denehey as the father of a politically influential family similar to the Kennedys. One of the sons commits a murder and his friend knew about it. The son went on to become a senator.
    I forget what it was called. I believe it was A Season in Flames or some weird thing. The point being highly critical of the Kennedy’s. I think it combined a bunch of Kennedy events. I would be interested to find out who put it out since they clearly had an axe to grind.

    • Replies: @David In TN
  368. gsjackson says:
    @Anon

    A couple of camera hogs who surely must know Simpson didn’t commit those murders, because they actually watched the trial. Anybody who did knows the not guilty verdict was correct. The media didn’t like the bad cops story line, though, preferring to go with the time-tested Othello flying into a jealous rage and murdering a white woman. The media also got bored with the evidence a month or two in, about the time Barry Scheck was beating the crap out of the L.A. crime lab, and started covering Marcia Clark’s press conferences instead. She had to try the case in the press because she knew she’d lost it in court before the half way point.

    • Replies: @Anon
  369. Anon[304] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    All the “ I and I alone know who really killed Kennedy” books claim the de Morgebschilt connection was through the Russian wife Marina.

    The local Russian community wanted to help Marina an unfortunate girl married to a communist weirdo living in total poverty. They gave her second hand clothes for her and the child, furniture kitchen things etc.

    The Russians were mostly those who had fled the revolution and their American born adult children. They hated the arrogant communist unemployed loser Oswald. De Morgenschilt was one of those Russians who loathed the mouthy communist loser Oswald and felt sorry for Marina.

    Those Russians were the connection where the Oswalds met the family with whom Marina lived when Oswald killed Kennedy. The wife was a Quaker pacifist who wanted to learn Russian as a contribution to world peace. The husband was an ACLU member. His father was head of the Trotskyite faction in the 1930s. Oswald fist met the husband at an ACLU meeting. Oswald joined the ACLU before he shot Kennedy. Were I a conspiracy theorist I’d think Oswald joined the ACLU so they would defend him in his trial for killing some prominent person. Oswald’s first call after he was arrested was to John Abt, attorney for both ACLU and the CPUSA.

    But I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I just like to read and my favorite genre is the spy mystery political intrigue real as opposed to conventional history.

    So I enjoy The Who killed Kennedy genre as much as John Le Carre, Len Deighton, Chris Buckley.

  370. bluedog says:
    @LiveFreeOrDie

    You should for on that day we become no better than any third world country, and of course that is what opened the door for the rot to enter the political system (not that a certain amount had always been there) and your lost freedoms of course,and yes there are many like you so probably we deserve in some small way for the utter decay in our society and the coming collaspe…

  371. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Whether or not he made a mistake, you know nothing about shooting a rifle.

  372. Wade says:
    @Mike from Jersey

    I agree with you on the US media. And yet somehow they have mastered the art of respectability in appearances. From Walter Cronkite to Dan Rather and Ted Koppel their presentation is first rate. On a subconscious level Americans have always regarded them as the last word in truth. I’m sure they have been the targets of zionism all along. See Alison Weir’s discussions of Dorthy Thompson and what happened to this fine reporter even before the days of Walter Cronkite when she visited Palestine and began to accurately report in her columns on the reality of what zionism had accomplished there. She was reduced to obscurity and then kicked down the memory hole.

    I’m convinced that most people even on Unz are a bit in denial of Zionism’s hold over our country via the media.

  373. @Anon

    Great comment. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Anon
  374. @Anon

    The scope mounted on the rifle was found by the FBI to be massively misaligned.

    Do tell. It must have been a miracle that the fatal bullets were identified via barrel markings as having been fired by Oswald’s gun.

    Go figure.

  375. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @LiveFreeOrDie

    Absolutely agree although some of the thousands of books are enjoyable if you like political thrillers.

  376. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @gsjackson

    Well, someone killed their son and brother. OJ was acquitted but there was plenty of evidence with which to charge him. 10 out of the 12 jurors were black, mostly women who hate White women with a deep and vicious hatred acquitted hi
    Of course they hate black men and their own children as well.

    And he was found guilty later in the civil trial.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
    , @Hibernian
  377. renfro says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Gotcha! That Jerusalem Post article you link is in fact very good but, if I were one of the UR commenters who tosses the word “liar” about I would say your misquoting of it is thoroughly dishonest. Bad enough so a judge would find your evidence unreliable

    There is nothing misleading or misquoted in utu’s post. ….it is you who is trying to dodge the point.

    And this..???…which has nothing to do with the Kennedy threat to Israel

    It gets worse. The article makes it clear that the same (merely verbal) pressure was kept up on Israel by Johnson and Nixon and Israel got away with its passive resistance until finally the “don’t ask, don’t tell solution” was settled on tacitly.

    And you are evidently unaware of the 1963 Fulbright Senate hearing on the ZOA and their dissemination of ‘propaganda ‘ in the US. There were multiple actions against Israel going on against Israel and its Fifth Column in the US under Kennedy(s) and Israel was shitting its britches.

    http://israellobby.org/Senate/default.asp

    Documents
    In 1962-1963 the Senate Foreign Relations Committee investigated the Jewish Agency and the American Zionist Council. Their funding flows from Israel as well as lobbying and public relations campaigns in the United States were explored during sworn testimony on May 23 and August 1, 1963. The Senate record including transcripts and subpoenaed documents are included in the following PDF files scanned from bound records held at the National Archives and Records Administration.
    May 23, 1963 Hearings
    Part 1 (2.8 MB)
    Part 2 (3.7 MB)
    Part 3 (7.2 MB)
    Part 4 (2.5 MB)
    August 1, 1963 Hearings
    Part 1 (4.6 MB)
    Part 2 (2.5 MB)
    Update: Many documents subpoenaed during the Senate investigation were not included in the final record (above). Also, organizations such as the Jewish Agency and American Zionist Council lobbied for redactions of some of their statements made under sworn testimony. The Senate investigation team files, newly released by the National Archives and Records Administration on July 23, 2010, reveal a comprehensive Jewish Agency public relations campaign in the US. Visit the new AZC archive for these declassified records

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @utu
  378. I reiterate:

    Every shred of physical evidence points to one shooter, one gun, one Oswald. Every one. There IS no contradicting hard data, period.

    There IS NO evidence — physical, verifiable evidence — that any other weapon was used other than Oswald’s Carcano.

    Was there a background conspiracy? Entirely possible.

    Did Oswald’s gun kill Kennedy? Yes. Was it found by the window in the TSBD, along with the fired empty cartridge casings? Yes. Were ANY OTHER weapons found, or bullets? No.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Sam J.
    , @ians
    , @ians
  379. renfro says:
    @Sam J.

    And what is your proof or evidence or source for the claiming the SS was ‘called off”.,,by the CIA I presume you are inferring.

    FYI….the Secret Service is not part of the CIA or any other agency.

    And this quote of mine you used has nothing to do with your claim..try to keep up

    @renfro

    “…The only people who could have gotten thru presdential security protocol to murder Kennedy privately and subtly would have been one of his girl friends…”

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  380. renfro says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I would like to see suspicious death reports subjected to the kind of statistical studies epidemiologists use to say “sorry ladies but 50 unexplained miscarriages in towns with names ending in -ville doesn’t prove that the postal service contrived it

    Iris has provided that for you….try to keep up.

    Iris says:
    June 18, 2018 at 8:07 pm GMT • 100 [email protected]
    However in addition to the other suspicious deaths Ron mentioned there could have been other accidents or deaths in the gov or CIA of not important figures that went unremarked upon and were not news worthy.

    Hi Renfro;
    Interestingly, several statisticians came up to the same conclusion with regard to President Kennedy’s assassination:
    - Out of 1100 witnesses called to testify between 1964- 1978, at least 46 died unnaturally. The probability of such event is 4.9E-45, or odds less than 1 in a trillion trillion trillion.
    - There was at least 122 suspicious deaths during the same period, with spikes occurring in 1964 (Warren commission) and 1977 (HSCA).

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AjAk1JUWDMyRdDFSU3NVd29xWWNyekd2X1ZJYllKTnc&oid=18&zx=oew8tfrowwhp

    https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/jfk-mysterious-witness-deaths-london-sunday-times-and-hsca-cover-up/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  381. Sam J. says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The Liar of Oz is a frequent Hasbara commenter here. Constantly shilling for the Jews. Here’s the actual report showing that you are a liar.

    “…Scientific Acoustical Evidence Establishes a High Probability That Two Gunmen Fired at President John F. Kennedy; Other Scientific Evidence does not Preclude the Possibility of Two Gunmen Firing at the President; Scientific Evidence Negates Some Specific Conspiracy Allegations…”

    https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1b.html

    “…The Committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The Committee is unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy…”

    https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1c.html

    They base it being a conspiracy on audio which proves that there were more than one shooter. This is not a “judgement” or “could be” piece of evidence. It’s a fact that the gunshots came from different places because the speed pf sound can be measured and used to locate where the shot was fired from. They do the same thing in some cities to get a location for gunshots.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  382. Skeptikal says:
    @republic

    I thought that Roth said the airfield where the jets landed was in Western Mass.

    • Replies: @republic
  383. Ron Unz says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    I reiterate:

    Every shred of physical evidence points to one shooter, one gun, one Oswald. Every one. There IS no contradicting hard data, period.

    There IS NO evidence — physical, verifiable evidence — that any other weapon was used other than Oswald’s Carcano.

    Well, I certainly haven’t read all of the nearly 400 comments now on this thread, that total almost 50,000 words.

    But it seems curious to me that this “Dillon Sweeny” fellow seems so absolutely adamant about Oswald being the “lone gunman,” and mostly just endlessly repeating those sorts of statements over and over again, without really citing any evidence to support those claims, whereas most of the other commenters on all sides of the issue provide copious citations, references, and links.

    It’s also a bit curious that “Dillon Sweeny” has apparently never once previously commented on this website, but suddenly appeared out of nowhere, directing almost all his enthusiasm to this one, single article…

  384. D. K. says:

    The linchpin of the Warren Commission’s much-maligned “Lone-Nut Theory”– the conclusion that Lee Oswald, acting wholly on his own, had conceived and planned the assassination of President John Kennedy, and then had successfully carried out that plan, during the former’s lunch hour at the Texas School Book Depository– is Arlen Specter’s notorious brainstorm: “The Single-Bullet Theory.” The Commission had decided that only three shots had been fired, during the assassination, because three spent bullet casings had been found in the so-called “sniper’s nest,” inside of a corner window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. The third shot was the fatal head shot, as captured on Mr. Zapruder’s famous “home movie.” Another, probably the first, was the missed shot that indirectly wounded onlooker James Tague, standing well down the street, when it hit the curb, causing his cheek to be bloodied by a small piece of flying concrete. The other, probably the second, therefore had to be responsible for both the original wounding of the president and all of the wounds of Governor John Connally. Thus, Arlen Specter’s notorious solution: “The Single-Bullet Theory.”

    According to the Warren Commission, courtesy of the future long-time United States Senator for Pennsylvania, a single bullet, later found at Parkland Hospital by an attendant, who turned it over to the authorities, had entered at the base of the rear of the president’s neck, exited through his throat, wounded the governor in several parts of his body, and finally lodged in his leg. The bullet then was presumably dislodged during the governor’s treatment in the ER, remaining on his stretcher. While that stretcher was resting against the wall, in the hallway outside of the governor’s ER treatment room, the aforementioned attendant pushed another stretcher against the wall, which inadvertently jarred the governor’s stretcher, knocking the previously dislodged bullet off of that stretcher and onto the floor, which the attendant had noticed, causing him to pick it up, and then to turn it over to the authorities as possible evidence.

    A fatal flaw in “The Single-Bullet Theory” is that the president had not been shot at the base of the rear of his neck. He had been shot, instead, about five and a half inches down his back, a couple of inches to the right of its midline. That bullet wound was probed by both Dr. Humes and another doctor, during the autopsy, using both their fingers and a metal probe. It went to a depth of only about two inches, and the bullet was no longer in the president’s body. Applying Occam’s Razor, the nearly pristine bullet that was found at Parkland Hospital, as recounted above, was not somehow dislodged from the governor’s leg wound, during his ER treatment; instead, it was dislodged from the president’s back wound, during resuscitation efforts in the ER. At any rate, none of the governor’s multiple wounds were caused by the same shot as the president’s back wound, and “The Single-Bullet Theory” is disproved, along with the theory of Lee Oswald’s having carried out the entire attack with just three shots from his badly aligned surplus rifle.

  385. Sam J. says:
    @renfro

    “…And what is your proof or evidence or source for the claiming the SS was ‘called off”.,,by the CIA I presume you are inferring…”

    The source is the actual video of the secret service abandoning their normal position in the rear of the car. Look for yourself. It remains for you to explain why they changed not me to explain who was involved. You can see they left him and it’s been said by many that the car almost stopped at one point. If so did the driver do it on purpose? I’m sure he did.

  386. Sam J. says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    “…Every shred of physical evidence points to one shooter, one gun, one Oswald. Every one. There IS no contradicting hard data, period….”

    https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1c.html

    You’re either misinformed or a liar.

    House Committee on the assassination of JFK.

    “…The Committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The Committee is unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy…”

    I want to note that all the talk about if Oswald could shoot this or that or the other are irrelevant because it was proven that there was more than one shooter from audio recordings of the shooting. We KNOW there was more than one shooter and that there was a conspiracy.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Dillon Sweeny
  387. @Anon

    what he did and what is known about him militates against your theory that he would have been one of the conspirators i.e. before the assassination. No, much more plausible that he was roped in afterwards without really understanding the conspiracy.

    A drug runner called Rose Cheramie talked in hospital about a plot involving Jack Rubinstein to kill JFK – the day before it happened.

    https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/rose-cheramie-how-she-predicted-the-jfk-assassination

    Would you involve a Jack Ruby in any big enterprise beforehand?

    There are two ways to answer this.
    (1) Ruby had many connections in Dallas, including corrupt relationships with police. He was useful and, apparently, loyal.
    (2) Would you involve a Lee Harvey Oswald in any big enterprise beforehand?

    They did what they did, using who they could, and they covered their tracks so well that we are still wondering whodunnit 55 years later.

  388. @renfro

    Please keep it simple and relevant to the limited issue I raised instead of waffling voluminously to create a great smoke screen.

    It *is* quite simple. You used a quote from the Jerusalem Post as if to add weight and authority to your case but you left out part of it, notably the 1967 date which was essential for understanding precisely and making sense of what the JP article was saying. I won’t repeat what I have already demonstrated about that but if you offer any more obfuscatory smoke I hope readers will refer back.

    In short is there innocent explanation for your omission or are we left with the knave or fool dilemma?

    • Replies: @renfro
  389. gsjackson says:
    @Anon

    Ah, the civil trial with the rational, unbiased white jury. You do know, of course, that plaintiffs’ lawyers in that trial dispensed altogether with the criminal prosecution’s timeline in order to conform with the seven of eight eye and ear witnesses whose testimony indicated the murders couldn’t have taken place beffore 10:35. Out went Kato’s “thump, thump. thump” and the plaintive cry of a dog at 10:15.

    Clark knew the later timeline was an impossibility. It left Simpson with 20 minutes to dispatch two young and fit victims in a death struggle that the two most eminent criminologists in the country (both of whom usually worked for the prosecution) estimated took 10-15 minutes, drive home after first heading in the wrong direction, bizzarely hop his fence without disturbing any vegetation, hide the murder weapon and clothes so effectively that the most exhaustive search for artifacts in the history of criminal jurisprudence (even Boy Scouts were enlisted) could not unearth them, change, freshen up and appear as normal, congenial O.J., packed and ready to go. This was the story the white jury bought, having been conditioned by the media to presume guilt.

    As for the “someone” who killed their son and brother, you might start with the person whose blood and flesh were found under Nicole’s fingernails. It wasn’t Simpson’s blood type, so of no interest to police, who had decided Simpson was to be the defendant minutes after discovering the murder. They had him in handcuffs just a few hours later, based entirely on “discoveries” made by a cop who at that time was suing the department for turning him into a racist. Similarly they had no interest in the blood that was all over the car keys Goldman used as a weapon. The keys were returned to the car’s owner caked in untested blood.

    The Goldmans as pillars of virtue? Likely not. I don’t know if it’s true, but you can read online that Fred was mobbed up in Chicago. Ron was running with a fast crowd on the road to nowhere, some of whom also managed to get themselves murdered around the same time. I don’t doubt that the Goldmans didn’t allow themselves to consider Simpson’s innocence, given the prosecution had invested them in guilty, media were going with that narrative, outrage at an unjust verdict promised ever-ready cameras and multi-million dollar civil verdicts.

    By the way, what I’ve touched on here was just a tiny part of the defense’s case. And they left out about half their case because the prosecution was going for a mistrial due to jury attrition. Only two alternate jurors were left.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  390. prusmc says: • Website
    @Dillon Sweeny

    If you buy the idea that Allen Dulles still controlled the CIA two years after he was fired, does it follow that John Brennan still controls the CIA 18 months after his release from duty?
    Moreover, FBI was corrupt until Hoover died is it now clean and incorruptible?

  391. @Ron Unz

    It’s also a bit curious that “Dillon Sweeny” has apparently never once previously commented on this website, but suddenly appeared out of nowhere, directing almost all his enthusiasm to this one, single article…

    Ya figger I’m the rear guard watchman for the real Mossad killers? ;-)

    Which of the 400 comments presented verifiable evidence of another weapon? Did all the bullets that tattered Kennedy’s corpse — you know … the Mafia .45s, the Israeli Uzis, the Cuban surplus FALNs — did all those bullets just evaporate? Cripes, there must have been foreign agents and other thugs crawling out of every storm drain, overhang and prairie-dog burrow for ten miles’ radius.

    I guess the little green men swooped in and reversed time, collected all non-oswaldian evidence, and poofed! back to Dimension X?

    I’ll be glad to grant the possibility that Oswald did not actually fire the IDENTIFIED and CONFIRMED bullets found — could be. I suppose some other ghost fired the shots, handed the rifle to Oswald, and was transported by Scotty to the Enterprise in orbit. Entirely possible.

    Evidence, my dear Watson, please to provide same. Facts are stubborn things.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
    , @Iris
    , @utu
  392. Iris says:
    @redmudhooch

    Most interesting comment, thanks.

  393. Hu Mi Yu says:
    @Anon

    -The Zapruder film shows JFK being violently thrown to his left and rear by the fatal head shot. Incredibly, this film was kept under wraps for 12 YEARS. IMO the WCR would have been a joke if the film had been available to the public when it was released.

    It was shown twice on Los Angeles TV station KCOP before being sent in for evidence. The Hollywood people who developed it were so shocked they wanted the public to view it before the government could edit it. Which they did.

    What I saw in the original implicated the secret service and the President’s wife. They came to a pre-apointed spot and jammed on the brakes so hard the you could see under-sprung Lincoln rocking back and forth. The drivers stared straight ahead while at least three shots are fired. The only person who turned around was Governor Connally. He was immediately shot and ducked under the seat. The passengers were under instructions not to turn around and look.

    The first shot struck the President in the throat from the rear. He tried to duck, but his wife Jackie held him up poised like a statue for the fatal shot from the front. To understand how they turned Jackie you need to check out old newspapers from 1963. The President’s affair with Marilyn Monroe was front page news. A Catholic divorce was impossible; marriage was “until death do us part.” According to one of the conspirators all Jackie wanted was another husband even richer than JFK.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @prusmc
    , @Sparkon
    , @Hu Mi Yu
  394. @Bombercommand

    Therefore the rifle could only be in front, and above the target. There is only one place the rifle shootist could have made that shot from: on top of The Triple Underpass.

    As you say, Kennedy was looking down after the throat shot. If the head shot came from the front, it didn’t necessarily come from above.

    There were spectators on the Triple Underpass who would have seen and heard a shooter there:

    http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/explorer/galleries/explorer-jfk-the-lost-bullet-pictures/at/triple-underpass-39917/

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  395. Dube says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    [Dillon Sweeny]: “Bottom line’ you haven’t the faintest knowledge of how fast Oswald could cycle the action and re-acquire target. Not the faintest, my dear sir.

    But Mr. Sweeny, you’ve read of experts trying to duplicate the shots, under more favorable conditions, while failing. That much is knowledge, more than faint.

    MODUS TOLLENS: If Oswald fired the shots, then his feat can be duplicated; but efforts to duplicate his feat have failed, so Oswald did not fire the shots.

    That is the simple formulation, but it is the method of science to disconfirm an hypothesis through indirect testing.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Dillon Sweeny
  396. @Anon

    His personal morality was dodgy; but he stood up to the Military-Industrial Complex, the CIA, the Federal Reserve, the Israelis, and organised crime. He was neither a paragon of virtue nor a “light of western civilization”, but he was a cut above the politics we have had since his death.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  397. renfro says:
    @ians

    To add:

    https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=919

    Telephone Conversation Of Johnson and CIA Director McCone
    Nov 30 1963 3:14pm

    In which McCone tells Johnson that reports on Oswall activities in Mexico were totally fabricated by man seeking to ingratiate himself to US interest to gain entry into US and work with security forces in US.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wizard of Oz
    , @Sean
  398. Skeptikal says:
    @Anon

    ” The wife was a Quaker pacifist who wanted to learn Russian as a contribution to world peace.”

    No. Ruth Paine was very likely CIA. One of the intelligent young women recruited in the early fifties. I think James Douglass provides info on her background and her strange role in the whole Oswald story.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  399. Sam J. says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    “…Which of the 400 comments presented verifiable evidence of another weapon? Did all the bullets that tattered Kennedy’s corpse — you know … the Mafia .45s, the Israeli Uzis, the Cuban surplus FALNs — did all those bullets just evaporate?…”

    This is just a smoke screen as the body was under control of people who could have removed whatever bullets were there and replaced them with whatever they wanted. The real “Evidence” is that audio recording recorded shots from more than one position. What kind of bullets is irrelevant.

    I can’t remember where I read it but I read that this was the gun that killed Kennedy from the grassy knoll.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_XP-100

    Easy to hide. Very high velocity and a super accurate shooter.

  400. Them Guys says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    What are you talking about? I experienced the exact same issue when I tried to log unto this website that night and next day, as happened to Carlton Meyer as he stated.

    And this type issue happens alot at many websites that allow free speech as is done here. Are you saying that there are No TelAviv ziojew agendas and online disruptive agents? Plenty proof of it has been well exposed here and at many sites online ever since telaviv israel opps have been outted by their own jew newspapers etc. Or maybe you think when such abnormal issues happen we should not alert Mr. Unz?

    You seem to write quite alot of replies in always defending jewry and disbelieving various info that show or prove israel or jews in a bad light…And much of it reads kinda mambo jambo goofy at times, so if this is yet another goofy idea or belief you have…well ok whatever.

    ps the log on issues seem to have stopped as of today, so perhaps it was some form internal glitch at this site? Just glad its fixed.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  401. Them Guys says:
    @Anon

    From my experience at many other websites forums, whenever a glitch in entering a site or posting a reply happens like I had happen as described prior…The website owners or forum mods usually like being made aware of the issue. So if its a hacker problem or internal glitch, they can check and fix it if need be…So WTF is Your stupid reply to me supposed to be?

    You and whoever dillons weeny are sure are able to come up with a lot of idiotic nonsense based on a simple description of said log on glitch I posted of eh. Sounds like you two are in that group who thinks it so it must be true elsewise why would the thoughts be inside your minds.

    • Replies: @Anon
  402. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    …..Now you might say that probably the rifle was dropped or something like this which put the scope out…

    Dropped, had it hit an object here and there while carried away, put down on table/whatever etc.

    The most likely scenario when one takes a good look at all that mess that day.

    The overall police work at/around the crime scene was, by today’s standards, just bad that day. Probably lasting a couple of days.

    I am positive that the handling of the rifle was just bad, resulting in scope misalignment.

  403. ians says:
    @Anon

    Nonsense as ever. The neighbor testified that the package fitted under Oswald’s armpit when he held it in his hand. Ergo, too short to be the rifle. Stop posting fake ‘facts’.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Iris
  404. utu says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    JP article was quoted only to support the claim that the the tension between Israel and the US in 1963 was so high about the Israel’s nuclear program that it led to sudden resignation of Ben Gurion who was not ready to reply to Kennedy’s letter.

    Anything that happened after the Kennedy’s death that is referred in the article is irrelevant. For obvious reason the JP article tries to reduce the importance of Ben Gurion resignation by claiming that the issue of nuclear program was not resolved during Johnson or even Nixon administration and that the US backed off and some mutual ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ understanding was reached.

    You have to face that your beloved Israel is very high on the suspect list.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  405. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    The Quakers, especially their activists organization American Friends Service Committee are a very anti American, anti White pro black radical organization posing as pacifist do gooders, like ACLU NAACP ADL and the rest of the anti White groups.

    Given her husbands father was head of the Trotskyites in the 1930s she and husband could have been anything.

    American Friends Service Committee was the liberal do gooder organization that brought communist party member black activist Angela Davis north and raised her to become a proud member of CPUSA and a black radical who bought the guns used in the Marin County Courthouse shoot out that killed 11 people including a judge in his courtroom.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  406. utu says:
    @renfro

    The old fart WOZ can be ignored. But anyway thanks for your comment.

  407. utu says:
    @ians

    Read my comment once again and rethink your reply.

  408. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @gp

    Mrs Oswald testified that he spent hours dry firing practicing so he would have been very fast with the bolt.

    I for one don’t believe a word this poor pretty little innocent waif who somehow managed to live with the daughter in law of the head of the Trotsky faction; but if he did practice he would have been fast enough.

  409. Iris says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    “Which of the 400 comments presented verifiable evidence of another weapon?”

    It is not the job of people commenting here, it was the job of the Dallas police force and other authorities involved to find that weapon, and they completely failed at that:

    - 1-The Dallas police force was unable to find any Oswald fingerprint on the rifle that allegedly shot the President; they were able however to miraculously produce a partial palm print AFTER Oswald died (on Nov 29th). Obviously, a corpse is more cooperative than a live patsy.

    2- In 1998, expert Nathan Darby identified a partial fingerprint found on a cardboard box in the TSBD “sniper nest” with that of Mac Wallace, a rented gun who had notoriously worked for LBJ. This lead was of course not investigated.

    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4966-mac-wallace-fingerprint/

    You are just embarrassing yourself; try instead to learn from so many interesting comments posted in this thread.

  410. Them Guys says:
    @ANON

    At this late point in time, and with all we have seen and whats already been revealed, it seems to me there aint too much left to ponder or wonder about for our future. Being with a combo of internet availability now that we never had 45 yrs ago, and the fact that many so called elite’s do not even attempt to hide what they do or plan to do any longer….It is likely all the current fucked up mess is going to continue and worsen. All I know for certain is I had those ideas of what to expect back 45 yrs ago, when I gave serious thought questions as to how could various prophetic events as per biblical prophecy events ever actually become reality.

    For example, everyone by now is well aware of that prophecy bible part that states how every alive person on earth will have to accept a Mark of the beast aka the famed 666 number. Well I wondered as to how can even a one world leader guy, as predicted of whom will require such a number mark to Buy and Sell and nobody who refused his mark number will be allowed or able to buy and sell anything at all…..How can that happen? What will be the method to cause such?

    That’s when as I thought deeper on it all, the only thing made sense was it must be cashless world society, and computers are the only real method to have such mass control over all and every of 6-7 billion global persons and ability to stop all forms selling or buying by any of those folks…

    No other method made sense, and we today and for some time now see and know that so far that is precisely the issue and method Many have been promoting….Cashless and controlled by a central global computer. So far None I am aware of have also said they wish for or want a “666-Mark” number etc…However, some form of a ID-Number system will be needed for a system of control so vast no?

    I usually don’t discuss such infos any longer due to most folks are asleep at the wheel big time still, and many at forums, like here, are also atheists, and so Anything even remotely biblical related sends them into mass foam at mouth fits of rage, and then they follow every reply you post up and harrass you to no end….I do not understand why such atheist types that do that, work so hard at convincing others of something, those atheists say they do Not believe exists?! For a thing that don’t exist(God etc)…They sure try hard at a thing they claim don’t exist.

    So yes I do have other ideas as to our future and how it shall get played out…I’d think many folks also do. But its usually not worth efforts to discuss them unless in person and with another person open minded and willing to discuss such things.

    Some stuff I 45 yrs ago I said I believed will happen was simply that everyone be able to have a phone they can talk and view other person with…But that idea was around long prior to 45 yrs ago in dick tracy comic books eh…Recall tracys wrist watch phone could view other person like todays cell phones?…..But just saying it will be reality along with overall issues of mass public surveilence and lack of privacy issues we see today. Back 45 years ago even got some people down right Angry, angry enough to desire an actual fist fight because they hated being told of it!

    Far as I am concerned, if anyone wishes to inflict phys harm like fist fights etc?…Well I Pak a .45 or .357 typically and rather just whack the bastards for good if comes to that, over my simply speaking publicly. But you may be surprised at how many people act that way over hearing stuff they disagree on. Best to remain silent most times. And avoid it all.

    • Agree: Stonehands
  411. peterAUS says:
    @Sam J.

    Informative.

    Still, does the “unable” mean “there were more but we couldn’t prove it”, or “there was just one”.
    Lawyer talk……

    As for that audio, well, my point from the start here.
    7 seconds, more than one.
    8 seconds, bordeline…
    9 and longer, could’ve been just one.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  412. peterAUS says:
    @Dube

    Yup.

    And in controlled environment. Shooting at a makeshift target.

    Shooting in real, and on THAT target, just makes it so much harder.
    Obviously.

  413. ians says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    Your desire to spread disinformation and misinformation is extraordinary. Chief of Police Curry admitted there was no evidence to place Oswald in that window with that gun. Are you so ignorant of this case that you’re even unaware that a Mauser was first found? How do you explain the magic bullet which has to traverse Kennedy’s neck, but the wound was in the back and that bullet hadn’t entered more than a couple of inches. (Ford shifted entry point) More fragments in Connally than were missing from the near-pristine bullet. Oswald spotted in the lunchroom 15 minutes before and two minutes after the assassination.
    It’s clearly a waste of time to engage though, given your evidence-free assertions and ignorant blustering.

    • Replies: @Anon
  414. Anon[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @ians

    Any rifle would fit under an armpit if held vertically. It was also in the car.

    If you want to believe that Oswald went, for the first time on a week night instead of a week end, to the Paine home; and next morning carried a package of curtain rods for his furnished room that already had both curtains and rods, go right ahead.

    I’ve read a lot of Who Killed Kennedy books and enjoyed every one of them as I enjoy le Carre books. But I don’t believe any of the theories.

    Go start an argument with someone who believes another theory than yours.

    • Replies: @ians
  415. Ghoul says:

    Only ONE thing happened in that day of November.

    If the Warren Commision’s explanation is false, and there was a conspiracy, then SOMETHING ELSE is true.

    Since the assassination, thousands of people have investigated the alleged holes in the lone nut theory, and hundreds of them dedicated a good part of their lives to the investigation. In total, MILLION OF MEN-HOURS were dedicated to conspiracy-theorizing.

    If those millions of men-hours were chasing ONE truth about a conspiracy that really hapenned, they would necessarily have reached SOME convergence, more likely a unanimity about some alternative explanations.

    And yet there is, to this day, NO convergence on an alternate explanation. No convergence on whether Oswald was one of the shooters, how many shooters there were, where the shots came from, how many shots there were, who was acting inside the Warren Commission to ensure the cover-up, whether LBJ was involved or not, whether and how the autopsy doctor commited fraud, whether the secret service was involved (and what they did and did not do that day), whether oil millionares were involved, whether the mafia was involved, whether there is any merit to the David Ferrie-Clay Shaw-Jim Garrison-New Orleans subplot, how Oswald could have spent 1 year as a factory worker in the USSR being a “right-winger”, who and how devised the happy coincidence of the motorcade driving in front of the Depository, wheter LHO killed Tippit (and if so who did, and how the frame-up was concocted in such a short time), WHAT THE HELL OSWALD WAS DOING FOR MONTHS IN A RANDOM MENIAL JOB IN DALLAS BEFORE THE TRIP WAS EVEN SUGGESTED IF HE IS NOT PRECISELY THE KIND OF LOSER THE WARREN COMMISSION SUGGESTS (that one bugs me), which of the “death-bed” confessions are credible, whether the backyard photos were doctored, whether Marina was lying or duped, how come 8 of the 9 top ballistic experts heard by the HSCA agreed with the Warren Commission…. this is the short list.

    Yes, dear conspiracer, I know YOU think you have an answer to some of those questions. I just want to know: if your answer is right, how come the vast amount of work by the other conspiracists could not lead to a point that is settled?

    I will grant you one point. Robert was suspicious. I don’t know if he was, but let’s grant it. Now what? What does that prove? What information was RFK privy to that we aren’t? What’s the big freaking deal about it?

    By the way, I read Reclaiming History in its entirety. Much of it more than once. Very long, but an easy, clear, engaging and enjoyable read (not the notes, the text itself). There is absolutely no excuse for not reading it if you want to discuss the subject. Anyone who compares its detailed, thorough and to the point analyses with the pitiful “rebuttals” in reclaiminghistory.org, which are meandering, full of nitpicking and absolutely irrelevant digressions, plus irrelevant alleged smoking guns (like the RFK suspicion), will find it striking the difference in the quality of Bugliosi’s work and his critics.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
  416. Anon[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @Them Guys

    Who cares what you think idiot? Go argue with someone else.

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  417. @Sam J.

    You’re either misinformed or a liar.

    Or merely literate.

    A committee believes there is a conspiracy. Could be, for sure. What I pointed out is that there are two bullet wounds in Kennedy, produced by bullets from the same gun. Those bullets killed Kennedy -= basic forensic ballistics. No other bullets or weapons were found.

    The killing shots came from Oswald’s gun. Oswald was in the TSBD, working on the 6th floor. Gunshots from the sixth floor were heard by TSBD employees. After the shots, Oswald appeared in the lunchroom, then left the TSBD. When spotted, he ran. When stopped, he killed a police officer.

    It is possible Oswald did not fire the Carcano, entirely possible. But, all above is confirmed, verifiable evidence. Hard data. Physical fact.

    Joe-Willy Bob Bystander gushing that he saw a green mist over the knoll IS NOT confirmed, verifiable evidence. If you have some, by all means, trot it out.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
    , @Sam J.
  418. Iris says:
    @ians

    “The neighbor testified that the package fitted under Oswald’s armpit when he held it in his hand. Ergo, too short to be the rifle”

    This is correct: the neighbour was TSBD colleague Hugh Wesley Frazier. He used to give Oswald a lift to where Oswald’s family lived, at Ruth Paine’s.
    Frazier said the parcel was 2 ft long: Oswald hold it between his folded hand and armpit.

    This could not have been the alleged murder rifle, which was at least 3 ft long.

    • Replies: @Anon
  419. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @renfro

    Thanks for the information.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  420. @Dube

    MODUS TOLLENS: If Oswald fired the shots, then his feat can be duplicated; but efforts to duplicate his feat have failed, so Oswald did not fire the shots.

    Are you joking? Do you have any concept of logic whatsoever? That is the most ridiculous attempt to create modus tollens I’ve ever seen.

    • Replies: @Dube
  421. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    Absolutely agree with everything you wrote. This discussion is pretty good.

    It’s not nearly so insane as some Who Killed Kennedy discussions. 2 other employees were directly under Oswald’s window. They heard the shots, felt the vibrations and saw dust fall from the vibrations.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  422. renfro says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You used a quote from the Jerusalem Post as if to add weight and authority to your case but you left out part of it, notably the 1967 date which was essential for understanding precisely and making sense of what the JP article was saying. I won’t repeat what I have already demonstrated about that but if you offer any more obfuscatory smoke I hope readers will refer back.

    First…. I didnt quote the JP piece utu did.

    Second…..lets look at article shall we? It is the typical Israeli chest beating puff piece pretending they are big and bad and can stare down US Presidents.

    The article itself confirms utu’s point that Kennedy was a threat to Israel’s survival and nuclear capabilities ….as in this paragraph from the article:

    But history shows that some issues are so critical that even the president of the United States cannot force Israel’s hand. Important examples include Menachem Begin’s rejection of Jimmy Carter’s demand for an indefinite settlement freeze in the 1978 Camp David summit, and Ariel Sharon’s refusal to accept George W. Bush’s demand to end anti-terror operations in March 2002, following the Passover attacks, including the Park Hotel. The sharpest example took place almost 50 years ago, when John F. Kennedy demanded that David Ben-Gurion end Israel’s nuclear deterrent program, deemed necessary to ensure Jewish survival in a very hostile world.

    Also confirming utu’s point in the article:

    ”’When president Kennedy took office in 1961, the disagreement became a full-blown crisis.

    And this:

    ”Finally, Kennedy had enough, and in a personal letter dated May 18, 1963, the president warned that unless American inspectors were allowed into Dimona (meaning the end of any military activities), Israel would find itself totally isolated.

    You said:
    but you left out part of it, notably the 1967 date which was essential for understanding precisely and making sense of what the JP article was saying

    All the article said re 1967 was:

    ”Before 1967, the IDF was not seen as a formidable power, and the economy depended on massive aid from Diaspora Jewry. If the US government were to impose tax restrictions, the costs would have been very high. Ben-Gurion avoided saying no by dancing around them for two years.”

    Which had once again nothing to do with Kennedy’s actions re Israel and only points up that only after Kennedy was murdered and Johnson took over did the heat on Israel go down.

    You Jews for Israel really are morons….we get that you are here to just toss hasbara crap, similar to little boys pulling a girls pigtails in grade school,…..but you don’t realize that that just gives us the opportunity to put out more actual information on Israel.

    Enjoy…lol

    When Ben-Gurion said no to JFK
    The “don’t ask, don’t tell” compromise served both Israel and the US well.
    By Gerald Steinberg
    March 28, 2010 23:23

    [MORE]

    It’s official – there is a major crisis in relations between Jerusalem and Washington. This is not an emotional response or passing tiff over the timing of Jerusalem building announcements, but a full-blown dispute on issues effecting vital Israeli and American interests. And although the personalities of Barack Obama and Binyamin Netanyahu may influence the conflict at the margins, the real clash is over policies and goals.

    In these situations, both the president and the prime minister are aware of the huge asymmetry in the relationship. America is Israel’s only reliable ally, and while there is some reciprocity through military technology and anti-terror intelligence, there is no balance. No other country – certainly not any European one – provides the sophisticated and costly weapons platforms needed to protect Israeli lives. As a result, the White House holds most of the cards, particularly with a majority in Congress (as is the case now).

    But history shows that some issues are so critical that even the president of the United States cannot force Israel’s hand. Important examples include Menachem Begin’s rejection of Jimmy Carter’s demand for an indefinite settlement freeze in the 1978 Camp David summit, and Ariel Sharon’s refusal to accept George W. Bush’s demand to end anti-terror operations in March 2002, following the Passover attacks, including the Park Hotel. The sharpest example took place almost 50 years ago, when John F. Kennedy demanded that David Ben-Gurion end Israel’s nuclear deterrent program, deemed necessary to ensure Jewish survival in a very hostile world.

    THE CLASH began in 1960, when the outgoing Eisenhower administration sought an explanation for the mysterious construction near Dimona. It was told that this top-secret activity in the middle of the desert was a harmless textile plant, and no, it could not come and visit. Classified spy photos were then published on the front page of The New York Times (yes, the CIA spied on the Jewish state, with or without forged passports).

    When president Kennedy took office in 1961, the disagreement became a full-blown crisis. Like Obama, Kennedy was not inherently hostile (unlike Jimmy Carter), but he did not have a special sympathy for the Jewish people. His advisers urged continuous pressure, assuming that Israel would have no choice but to accept US demands. Every high-level meeting or communication repeated the demand for inspection of Dimona. One form of pressure was to deny Ben-Gurion an invitation to the White House – his May 1961 meeting with Kennedy was a low-key affair at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York, and was dominated by this issue.

    In some ways, Israel was far weaker than is the case today. Before 1967, the IDF was not seen as a formidable power, and the economy depended on massive aid from Diaspora Jewry. If the US government were to impose tax restrictions, the costs would have been very high. Ben-Gurion avoided saying no by dancing around them for two years.

    Finally, Kennedy had enough, and in a personal letter dated May 18, 1963, the president warned that unless American inspectors were allowed into Dimona (meaning the end of any military activities), Israel would find itself totally isolated. Rather than answering, Ben-Gurion abruptly resigned. Kennedy’s repeated emphasis on America’s “deep commitment to the security of Israel” was all well and good, but, as seen after Egypt’s sudden expulsion of UN peacekeepers in 1967, Israel could not depend on anyone – even the US.

    Ben-Gurion’s successor, Levi Eshkol received Kennedy’s next letter, which upped the pressure, warning that the American commitment and support of Israel “could be seriously jeopardized.”

    Later, after Lyndon Johnson became president following Kennedy’s assassination, the issue resurfaced, with threats of an American conventional arms embargo. But Eshkol followed Ben-Gurion’s precedent. Similarly, in 1969, Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger made one more effort to force Israel to relinquish the deterrent option, and when Golda Meir refused, the US and Israel agreed to the “don’t ask, don’t tell” compromise that has served both countries well for more than 40 years.

    IN ATTEMPTING to compare and apply the lessons to the current US-Israel crisis, the differences should not be ignored. Dimona was a bilateral issue, but in the peace process, the Palestinians are a crucial third party. There is no sense in pressuring Israel if Palestinians continue terror and incitement and reject the legitimacy of Jewish sovereignty. And although Jewish rights in Jerusalem are core issues for most Israelis and Jews, strategic deterrence is in a unique category.

    The question, therefore, is not whether Netanyahu or any other Israeli leader can say no in the face of determined American pressure – there are enough precedents. Rather, the issue is whether Obama’s demands are dangerous enough to justify the costs resulting from an escalating conflict”

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @j2
  423. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ghoul

    Wonderful, wonderful post; my thinking exactly but better written than I could.

    I’ve read at least 50 Who Killed Kennedy books, each one crazier than the last. I read them as political mystery thriller fiction.

    And why, if so many powerful factions were against Kennedy, why didn’t they get rid of him earlier?

    • Replies: @David In TN
  424. Them Guys says:
    @Anon

    Yeah like recall when Tim McVeigh aka OK fed buildg bombing perp. Was found by some local cop or sherrif who said he saw that the light beige/tan ford sedan McVeigh made his get away in, had NO Lic Plate on back of car!!!.

    Right….He spent a what? 2 yrs since WACO events planning to blow OK fed buildg apart, all that was involved to pull it off as msm all stated to us…Yet he somehow drove a get away car without any Lic Plate due to his belief of being a “Soverign Man” status, ergo NO driver Lic nor lic plate and veh reg papers needed based on US Const Principle of free to travel etc….Riiiggghhhttt!

    Yes indeed he my have held such belief of soverign man status, many others do also, I knew a few guys like that back in Detroit days….But if one does all the massive plans to do as McVeigh did…You would put a lic. Plate On the fuckin car no?

    Just one more MSM reported swindle scam we got told “part truths” of, mixed with tons of propaganda lies. And that incident too of OK-fed-buildg and McVeigh actions, smell to high heaven full of inconsistancies eh.

    Bottom Line for me was: Once I viewed all of almost 2 full months continuing events on TV of WACO evnts…That’s when I Knew for 100% Certain, all my many Previous questionings of what our fed govnt and every msm source told us about was mostly Lies. And americans have an untrustworthy bunch running usa fed gov and every msm source, period. For me, WACO was the clencher. And every event since Waco fortifies this in spades!

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  425. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @ians

    It’s not difficult for a fit young man to run down the stairs from a sixth to a second floor in 2 minutes. Although I doubt that whoever saw him in the lunchroom knew the exact time.

    So who do you think killed Kennedy?

    KKK, segration forever activists, anti school desegregation. activists, anti Castro Cuban immigrants, Castro agents wishing to blame the anti Castro Cubans, the army Air Force navy marines, Secret service, FBI CIA NSA USDA State department DOJ ADL Israel, mafia President Johnson, Jackie’s second husband Onassis, president Bush Republican Party President Nixon oil industry steel industry auto industry farmers CPUSA
    small business organizations Elks Moose chamber of commerce AFL CIO Wall Street veterans pacifists friends of the Vietnamese president killed a few weeks before Kennedy died, the Taiwan Chinese East Germans

    Which of the hundred or so suspect organizations do you believe killed Kennedy ?

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
    , @ians
  426. Them Guys says:
    @Anon

    Buzz Off asshole idiot. My reply was to two Others that did seem interested or care enough to reply to me…So as for You? Re read above words clown.

  427. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    I was being sarcastic about her learning Russian as a contribution to world peace. I loathe and despise all liberal do gooders like the sanctimonious Ruth Paine.

  428. utu says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    there are two bullet wounds in Kennedy, produced by bullets from the same gun

    Nonsense. This can’t be proven when you do not have bullets.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  429. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hu Mi Yu

    Really!!! And here I thought the second husband Onassis acted alone without Jackie’s knowledge. Now we know why she consented to go to Texas with him.

    The drs at the Dallas hospital had to unwrap a complicated hip and back brace. Some say it was the back brace that held him up. You say Jackie held him up. Very interesting

    Some say she and Onassis got engaged September 1963 2 months before Kennedy died. Onassis was a guest in the White House during the body viewing funeral and until she moved out.

    5 pregnancies, 2 miscarriages and 1 premature baby who died a few days after birth; all due to JFK’s incurable chronic chalymadia and other chronic STDs that he passed on to his wife.

    Have you heard about the retired Australian cop who claims the secret service driver of the car turned around and fired the head shot ?

    If the driver stopped the car that would disprove the endless theories that Oswald couldn’t shoot a moving target.

    If Oswald couldn’t shoot the moving target, how could the grassy knoll overpass and numerous other shooters hit the moving target?

    • Replies: @MacNucc11
    , @Wizard of Oz
  430. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @gsjackson

    I thought Goldman didn’t have a car? So who do you think did it? Most of the Los Angeles blacks thought the KKK did it to punish Nicole for marrying a black man and having 2 black kids.

    So what’s your theory. Please not the Jason Simpson did it theory. He was at work and driving a co worker home at the time they were killed.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
    , @Jeff Stryker
  431. prusmc says: • Website
    @Hu Mi Yu

    This is the kind of post the MAN wants to keep from being brought to public attention. Kind of explains why files are still classified.

  432. @Anon

    People seem to have a deep-seated need for conspiracies. I suppose bare facts are insufficiently titillating, lacking sufficient excitement and drama. For the most part, I just don’t care — what’s the harm? It does rather amuse me that 55 years go by, and conspiracies grow ever more outlandish, more divorced from facts, to the extent of being pure fantasy.

    Kennedy was hit by two bullets from the Carcano owned by Oswald. No other bullets were found. Oswald ran from the building from which the shots had been fired. Oswald killed a cop who tried to question him.

    All the rest is open to interpretation, even flying saucer explanations. Now, I will admit it does sell books and generate revenue. Bully, huh? ;-)

    • Replies: @MacNucc11
  433. MacNucc11 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    True enough, but then this was way more than two weeks in the planning. I think it was a joint deep state operation with Israel, CIA, with media cover. I always contend that these things are a lot simpler than people think and when it is done by the most powerful elements in society they have lots of room for error. They are not going to get caught because they would be the ones charged with doing the catching. The group in the Warren Commission were literally deciding if they should charge themselves with murder. Not surprisingly they laid it all on Oswald.

  434. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @gsjackson

    Ah, the criminal trial with 10 out of 12 black jurors who lied to the judge about Hispanic and White jurors to get them dismissed.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
  435. @utu

    Nonsense. This can’t be proven when you do not have bullets.

    Okay, I get it — “You too!”. Ha-ha.

    The bullets were extracted and identified per recognized forensic analysis. If you contend those were not the actual bullets, either produce same, or produce evidence of bullet-like phenomena that evaporated after doing the dirty deed.

    • Replies: @j2
  436. @Anon

    Which of the hundred or so suspect organizations do you believe killed Kennedy ?

    Had to be Putin. Just ask the networks.

  437. MacNucc11 says:
    @Anon

    Nixon was also looking to reign in the CIA which made him a target as well. His White House was infiltrated by CIA.

  438. Hu Mi Yu says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    The limo was travelling at only about 11 mph.

    That is 5 yards per second moving away and a slightly transversely.

    The limo came to a full stop for the shooting, then it sped away.

  439. Skeptikal says:
    @Anon

    “The Quakers, especially their activists organization American Friends Service Committee are a very anti American, anti White pro black radical organization posing as pacifist do gooders, like ACLU NAACP ADL and the rest of the anti White groups.”

    Quite apart from what anyone thinks of Ruth Paine (and I find her, her role in the Oswalds’ life, and her “legend” highly suspect), these ravings about the American Society of Friends (aka Quakers) and the American Friends Service Committee are bonkers.

    The personal convictions or reasons for an individual to associate him- or herself with the Society of Friends do not define the Society or its principles or beliefs. Quakers are very tolerant of all kind of things—that is part of the nonviolent creed, actually. During the sixties, many frustrated rebels found their way to Quaker Meeting. It was an interesting phenomenon to watch elderly Quakers take in with equanimity the sometimes emotional outbursts of these young rebels when they stood to express themselves in Meeting (where anyone may speak, “as the spirit moves him/her”).

    I am not going to waste much energy refuting this weird demonization of the very small religious group called the Society of Friends, or the American Friends Service Committee. It is one thing to disagree with Friends’ ideas of social justice, which derive from the religious view that all humans contain “the light of God” within them and thus partake of the Divine, and quite another to tar all Quakers with dark and also politically driven intentions because of the ultimate results of actions taken by Angela Davis. This is absurd. The most basic tenet of Quakerism is nonviolence and pacifism. There is no way in hell that Angela Davis or anyone else would have been encouraged by any Quaker to take any kind of violent or retributive action.

    —Raised Quaker

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Hibernian
  440. Iris says:

    Jack Ruby told an FBI informant to “watch the fireworks” a few hours before President John F Kennedy was assassinated, the latest release of JFK files reveals.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jfk-files-release-john-f-kennedy-jack-ruby-fbi-watch-for-fireworks-lee-harvey-oswald-assassination-a8063826.html

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  441. MacNucc11 says:
    @Tyrion 2

    You have to have the patsy. The person the public thinks did it so they all follow the well laid trail of the lone nut. If Kennedy is simply poisoned to die in his sleep then foul play is immediately assumed and all the suspects would be in play.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  442. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    James Reston Sr. participated in Project Mockingbird, apparently:

    Reston interviewed many of the world’s leaders and wrote extensively about the leading events and issues of his time. He interviewed President John F. Kennedy immediately after the 1961 Vienna summit with Nikita Khrushchev on the heels of the Bay of Pigs invasion. Stephen Kinzer’s 2013 book The Brothers: John Foster Dulles, Allen Dulles, and Their Secret World War portrayed Reston as a key contact of former CIA chief Allen Dulles who had collaborated with the CIA in Operation Mockingbird, in which the agency sought to influence global reporting and journalism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Reston

    Oral Histories: James Reston

    Stephen Kinzer, Author, “The Brothers”

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  443. MacNucc11 says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    Seems a bit strange to me we have a comment from his wife talking about what he would do with the rifle. True? Possibly, but then maybe she was a plant as well.

  444. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    My point being I don’t believe any of the theories.

    Not one of the 2,000 books ever mentioned Bush sr being involved till he became president. Then all of a sudden he was there, standing in front of the warehouse directing operations. Can’t believe you guys take all this so seriously.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  445. MacNucc11 says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    So you would expect to find every bullet fired? He ran but only after the police immediately targeted him as planned. He was sitting in the lunchroom. But why would he run? Was his plan to run to Mexico? He was hung out to dry. Why would a policeman question him? It is all suspicious. Most likely I think the policeman was to gun him down, case closed and a lot neater than what we ended up with don’t you think? Jack Ruby was damage control when Oswald got the policeman. Think about it. If Oswald is gunned down by the policeman on the streets then we have way less reason to believe in conspiracies. If this happened today we would just never hear from Oswald, like we will never here the explanation of Tsarnaev.

    • Replies: @Anon
  446. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @MacNucc11

    People die. It was pretty simple to make them die and make it look natural.

  447. MacNucc11 says:
    @Anon

    “If Oswald couldn’t shoot the moving target, how could the grassy knoll overpass and numerous other shooters hit the moving target?”

    Because a moving target that is moving toward you is more or less the same as a stationary target.

    • Replies: @ians
  448. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Them Guys

    What in the world does the Oklahoma City bombing have to do with the Kennedy killing and why do you guys fight about every word others post.??

    For me the 1968 affirmative action act was a huge warning sign and Ruby Ridge was the clincher.

    I hate the government even more than you do but although I was in my teens when Kennedy was elected and exposed to the absolute Kennedy adoration of the media I don’t believe that he was a great savior.

    Kennedy actually made an executive order that the federal government start hiring blacks instead of Whites who scored higher on the then existing civil service exams

    So he, not that anti White scum Johbson was the first affirmative action president.

    McVeigh was stopped for speeding. The officer checked warrants. No warrants no outstanding tickets. The car was not registered in McVeigh’s name yet. That was okay because he recently bought it and there was still time left before it needed to be registered in Oklahoma.

    Then, just as the officer was done writing the speeding ticket, McVeigh decided to get out of the car and move his jacket so the officer could see the gun tucked into his belt.
    McVeigh did not have an Oklahoma concealed carry permit but he was carrying a weapon concealed under his jacket. The concealed weapon was why he was arrested, not because of lack of a license plate

    He was stopped for speeding miles away from the scene of the bombing. Idiot, if I blew up a federal building I’d lay low and obey every nit picky law for the rest of my life.

  449. @MikeatMikedotMike

    You think the 45-minute opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan glorifies war?

    What if a realistic portrayal of the combat at the Anzio beachhead or at Kursk could be filmed?

    I think it is too simplistic to say FMJ had the opposite effect that Kubrick intended. What did he intend? My understanding is that Kubrick was maniacal about intending to make the best possible film.

    “War” is a big topic. It isn’t so simple. There are more than a few sequences in FMJ that are absolutely brilliant. The door-gunner scene, for instance. Apocalypse Now is possibly the only better movie about Vietnam.

    Apocalypse Now is one of 5 movies in my top 10 that isn’t a Kubrick film.

    Have you ever seen Hell Is For Heroes (1963) with Steve McQueen and Bob Hope?

    It is about a single American squad that has to hold a bunker and 1/2 mile of front along the Siegfried Line circa January 1945.

    I saw that movie when I was 8 years old. It hits pretty hard. I watch it every couple of years to keep fresh.

  450. utu says:
    @Ghoul

    Convergence or lack of it is not an argument. If you can’t handle the diversity of opinions or the fact that multiple theories can fit the same set of data then you do not belong to our civilization Western civilization.

  451. Iris says:

    Did Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald know each other?
    That would constitute a very improbable “coincidence”, and would in turn make the “conspiracy” very probable.

    1- Comedian and MC Bill DeMar, who worked at Ruby’s nightclub “The Carousel”, saw Oswald there a week before the assassination.

    2- Another MC, Wally Weston, who worked at the nightclub before DeMar, remembered Oswald coming at the Carousel on at least two occasions, with Ruby saying: “I told you never to come in here”. Wally Weston later testified at the HSCA.

    http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/N%20Disk/New%20York%20Daily%20News%206-76/Item%2001.pdf

    3- (I love this one ) During the press conference where Chief Henry Wade announces Oswald has been arrested for killing the President, and is part of a pro-Cuban communist organisation, Jack Ruby corrects him (!!!!) and gives the correct name (Fair play for Cuba). At 11:20.

  452. utu says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    Ya figger I’m the rear guard watchman for the real Mossad killers?

    Since you brought up Mossad. Yes, Israel fits perfect. Better than anything else. There is no better theory. Israel did.

    Motive: Israel (JFK against nuclear program) + Zionist Lobby (Threat of delegalization by DOJ under RFK)

    Execution: Mossad + Mafia (Meyer Lansky) + elements of CIA and French Intelligence

    Coverup: Various elements in FBI+CIA+MEDIA via many well placed sayanim

    Disinformation: hasbara ‘volunteers’ like yourself and Wizz of Oz…

    • Replies: @Paul C.
  453. Dillon Sweeny is adopting CIA last-ditch rearguard line of defense No. 1493(b), which is try to keep everyone arguing about the minutiae of one single aspect of the evidence (ballistics, for this crime) to distract people from the overwhelming probative evidence of CIA coup d’état based on documented government statements and actions as shown repeatedly inter alia in Douglass.

    https://off-guardian.org/2017/11/19/book-review-jfk-and-the-unspeakable-how-he-died-and-why-it-matters/

    CIA killed Jack Kennedy and everybody knows it. Nobody does anything about it because CIA will kill you too if you move to make them pay. They set themselves up with impunity from inception. CIA is your regime. They control the executive with moles. When Congress or the courts step out of line CIA removes them, terrorizes them into compliance (Daschle, Leahy) or kills them (Robert Vance, Paul Wellstone.)

    CIA is your totalitarian state. What are you gonna do about it?

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @utu
    , @Paul C.
    , @ians
  454. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    I remember that. Connally was head of DOD or undersecretary of the navy or something. Oswald was trying to get his marine discharge altered. The navy correspondence had Connally on the letter head and Oswald blamed Connelly personally although it was clerks who dealt with Oswald’s problem.

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @ians
  455. renfro says:

    This call to a reporter 25 minutes before Kennedy assassination telling him to contact the US Embassy for big news .

    From the CIA files . You can view the CIA memo at the link.

    https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32389606.pdf

    It says a reporter on the UK’s Cambridge Evening News received an anonymous call telling him to ring the US embassy for some big news, 25 minutes before the assassination of JFK, according to a memo from a deputy director of the CIA to the director of the FBI.
    The caller said only that the Cambridge News reporter should call the American embassy in London for some big news and then hung up. After the word of the president’s death was received the reporter informed the Cambridge police of the anonymous call and the police informed MI5.

    Reminds me of this,…..

    ‘Odigo Says Workers Were Warned of Attack
    Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

    https://www.haaretz.com/1.541023

    Could two pranksters have been so coincidencely lucky about two monumental events? I doubt it.
    But if the people who did it were ever traced the results have not been reveled to the public.

  456. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @FederalistForever

    Your welcome sir, any time

  457. renfro says:

    Trump on release of Kennedy files.

    ”A government official told reporters most of the files being retained belonged to the CIA and FBI. Mr Trump was said to have been disappointed he could not make all of them public and there was speculation the agencies were acting intentionally after the President made accusations towards them after he was elected.”

    ‘In a statement accompanying the release of the documents, Mr Trump said: “Departments and agencies have proposed to me that certain information should continue to be redacted because of national security, law enforcement, and foreign affairs concerns. I have no choice – today – but to accept those redactions rather than allow potentially irreversible harm to our nation’s security.”

    So what in there could possibly cause irreversible harm to our nation’s security.” That’s bullshit.
    If ‘foreign affairs was a concern …exactly which ‘foreing relations’ ?
    If it was anything about Russia or Cuba or any usual enemies they would be happy to reveal it.

    Just more cover up.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  458. renfro says:
    @Yneews Nollid

    No recent commenting history

  459. utu says:
    @redmudhooch

    the U.S. Senate occurred in November 1963, when Nicholas Katzenbach replaced RFK as Attorney General

    No. Formally RFK resigned his DOJ position in September 1940.

    But you are correct that Zionist lobby status was as important as the nuclear program to Israel.. The opposition of JFK administration to registration of Zionist lobby was the definitive proof for Israel that JFK was a threat to the future of Israel and Zionism.

  460. republic says:
    @Skeptikal

    no it was in NY state.

    Last September I posted a reply here on Unz that I had discovered for the first time the very interesting detail regarding the presence abroad that AA flight 11 of an ex Israeli commando named Daniel Lewin. This man was a super zionist, he seemed to be going on a mission which he did not expect to return alive, as he got all his affairs in order and had just received a visit from his long estranged father who hated America but had made his first trip there to see Daniel Lewin just before 9/11.

    Roth states in that video interview that based on her many years as a flight attendant that the phasing of the long 20 minute or so telephone conversations to the ground made by two different flight attendants were very oddly phrased and appear to her to have been dictated by someone else. Oddly very unemotional and very quiet in the background.
    these conversation were crucial in make the narrative that arabs were involved.

    Roth also states that some odd wording indicates that those calls were made on a the ground and not in the air.
    So based on Roth’s interview and her book it seems that Lewin was on that flight not by accident as his standard wiki entry indicates but on purpose as he directed that complex ground operation at Steward airport.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  461. I can hardly wait until part 2 is published.

    I also note that there is another article on unz.com about the Kennedy Assassinations as well.

    Lots of Hasbara trolling in that one as well, it seems. You know who you are, you Hasbara trolls.

  462. utu says:
    @Yneews Nollid

    CIA killed Jack Kennedy and everybody knows it.

    I believe it was more Mossad than CIA.

  463. Paul C. says:
    @utu

    That’s my guess. I’ve been meaning to read Michael Collins Piper’s book “Final Judgement” for his specifics.

  464. Paul C. says:
    @Yneews Nollid

    And who controls the CIA? The zionist central bankers. So you’re arguing the zionist’s / Israel was responsible. That makes the most sense to me. JFK was a threat to the (criminal) status quo on many levels (Dimona, Fed, CIA, MIC).

  465. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Bride at every wedding, corpse at every funeral. So Ruby had to kill Oswald just to insert a Jewish presence into the assassination.

    And the Rabbi was so paranoid he was relieved Oswald wasn’t Jewish or there would have been a pogrom in Dallas.

    It was the killing of Oswald that prevented learning about Oswald’s motives and any co conspirators and set off the whole conspiracy mess.

    I want to believe that the pro Castro communist Oswald killed Kennedy because Kennedy was an anti communist anti Castro cold warrior as they were called.

    But because Ruby killed Oswald I can’t believe Oswald was just a lone communist nut

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  466. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @c matt

    Maybe the scope came loose after the shots were fired?

  467. Dube says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    MODUS TOLLENS: If Oswald fired the shots, then his feat can be duplicated; but efforts to duplicate his feat have failed, so Oswald did not fire the shots.

    [Dillon Sweeny]: Are you joking? Do you have any concept of logic whatsoever? That is the most ridiculous attempt to create modus tollens I’ve ever seen.

    (Dube]: No. Yes. Show me.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  468. If it was a conspiracy, who did it and why?

    Kennedy was a Cold Warrior. The “missile gap” was a major theme of his campaign. The Cuban Missile Crisis happened on his watch. So, the theory that “Cold War hawks offed him” seems dubious.

    ISTR reading that LBJ was convinced that Castro got JFK before JFK got him. But Castro wouldn’t be able to orchestrate a deep state cover up.

    The FBI is the key to this. It’s hard to see how any conspiracy is possible without them. So, another theory is J Edgar arranged it because RFK was about to fire him. This really seems far-fetched. Hoover was retired a few years later anyway.

    If the US deep state were going to kill a president, I would have thought that FDR would be the one.

    The other possibility is the reverse of Oliver Stone’s theory – it wasn’t Cold Warriors, but rather that the deep state had been terrified by the Missile Crisis and concluded that JFK had to go. Or maybe it was Hoover, but he did it because the Kennedys were in cahoots with the mob (Joseph Kennedy made his money as a booze merchant during prohibition).

    If it was the deep state, one has to admire their OpSec. This was a baroque plot involving flaky characters like Oswald and Ruby, and yet nothing significant leaked.

  469. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anon

    Not theories, my dear boy. I stated facts.

  470. @Paul C.

    You’re right, JFK posed a threat to many levels of the US state criminal enterprise – as any revolutionary would. But on the question of ultimate control, I always think, How many divisions do the Zionist central bankers have? How many paramilitary assassins? How many arms ratlines? How many eyes-only intelligence liaison agreements with foreign spies protected as sources and methods?

    Of all the various predatory commercial interests screwing us, who is to mediate, when contention arises, or arbitrate, when friction persists? It’s clear that is CIA’s chartered purpose. And they have the destructive capacity and impunity to carry it out.

  471. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    There is good reason to believe Lyndon Johnson was involved in some kind of plot to kill John Kennedy.

    But he was not the person with the most to gain from JFK’s death…

    You make a distinction without a significant difference, since you say Johnson implemented the will of Israel. But that was something he could only do as President. So acquiring the Presidency through JFK’s death enabled him to carry out his political program, which if you are correct, entailed benefiting Israel is certain ways.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  472. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anon

    Carcano IS a high velocity rifle.

    The one Oswald used was made during WW1, and purchased by Oswald by mail order for $19.95. he allegedly fitted it with a cheap telescopic sight.

    It has be claimed that, during WWII, Italians using the same Mannlicher Carcano rifle christened it “the human rifle” because it couldn’t hit anyone.

  473. Benedeti says:

    One thing I remember from the movie many years after having seen it was that the single-bullet theory was attributed to Arlen Specter, a Philadelphia lawyer in the worst sense of the term.

  474. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    No I don’t really think you should have bothered to mention poor Geotge

    Well, of course, I should. It is relevant circumstantial evidence. But I don’t have the energy to argue the point. I walked over 20 km today and climbed over 3000 feet today, which at 75 is quite an effort, but well rewarded by views and rare plants.

    I got the Hodgson book, Mind Matters. It’s no good, despite the laudatory reviews and the high-tone publisher. Hodgson was evidently a clever man and no doubt had fun during his retirement years studying philosophy. But big breakthroughs concerning analytical questions are for young men, not retirees.

    Hodgson makes a discouraging start by addressing the issue of idealism versus realism as though it were an open question to be resolved, being unaware, evidently, that the issue was fully threshed out in the 18th Century by Locke, Berkeley and Hume. He then declares himself firmly in the realist camp, thereby demonstrating his inability to rediscover the wheel.

    The solipsistic position cannot be refuted. But as Hume sensibly explained, both common sense and language conforms to the realist assumption, and if experience ever ceases to conform to the realist assumption, it will be too bad for us.

    As for the rest, I am reminded of the comment that Francis Bacon wrote of science like a Lord Chancellor. Hodgson writes about philosophy like a High Court Judge. He reviews a mass of evidence and judges it according to what he calls plausible reasoning. Well that may be the only way judges can judge anything. But it ain’t useful as a means of resolving difficult logical questions, correctly.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  475. @Dube

    Actually the key part of the film (except for the direct shot to the head, which was deleted as you note) appeared in Life in the very next issue after the assassination. But it did not air on TV at the time – not the complete version and not the censored version either.

    1975 was the first nationwide television broadcast of the film (and without cuts).

    • Replies: @Hu Mi Yu
  476. Sam J. says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    “…The killing shots came from Oswald’s gun…”

    You can not confirm this. We have pictures of the car where the car was tampered with. Could have just as easily tampered with what bullets they found. You don’t know. We do know that the audio showed more than one shooter meaning there was a conspiracy.

    Uhhh…being literate has nothing to do with it and is, Jew favorite word, a Canard, as you can read all kinds of nonsense and be literate. The difference between you and me is I’m literate and discriminate. Evidence is weighed. I have no idea what you consider for evidence. I distrust most of the comments here that go on and on about minutiae when we have direct evidence that needs no conjecture. Just like the people who want to confuse 9-11 by saying planes, no planes, etc. when we have a building, #7, falling the same speed as a rock dropped in air. Meaning it had NO support other than air to fall that way.

    • Replies: @j2
  477. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    One subject, skeptical books about which will never receive “respectful-sounding reviews” is the Holocaust. Not in the lifetimes of anyone alive today, anyway.

    What popular reception the subject might receive in the distant future is one of the main reasons I regret that I will not be alive then to see it.

    • LOL: Iris
    • Replies: @L.K
  478. @renfro

    Thank you for that. Charnin’s kind of analysis appeals to my sense of reality – if it is valid. I used to have quite a lot to do with actuaries and would defer to the good ones even though I had a couple of times proved that actuaries’ expert advice was wrong. I went to sleep trying to remember enough of the math to test what Charnin wrote and only got so far as to note

    1. The Sunday Times withdrew, as fallacious that one in a trillion trillion trillion figure that is the one I think you cite

    2. The graph which appears just under Charnin’s assertion of the relevance of the Poisson Distribution looks like a Normal or maybe binomial distribution. (As far as I got in trying to revive my stats was to remember very skewed Poisson distribution graphs of where V1 and V2 bombs fell in London).

    Then
    3. I came across this which may make you too want to get an expert to appraise the expert

    https://www.npr.org/2017/12/28/574222257/fact-check-where-roy-moores-voter-fraud-claims-fall-flat

    (Quite an entertaining quick read in the “Only in America” category to reward one’s loss of time. Inter alia, apparently Donald Trump won the popular vote).

    As the actuarial approach – both the appropriate mathematical formulae and base data and asking the right questions – is potentially so devastating I am hoping Ron Unz will take it on.

    • Replies: @j2
  479. Anon[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    I developed my opinion of the American Friends Service Committee about 30 years before I learned Ruth Paine was a Quaker.

    I was in college when Kennedy was killed and the leftist profs claimed that although Oswald was a pro Castro self proclaimed communist that wasn’t why he killed Kennedy.

    The left claimed that Oswald killed Kennedy because the “ atmosphere of right wing hate” somehow got into Oswald’s brain and cause him to kill Kennedy.

    I worked for a city&county of San Francisco agency that was under siege by every radical revolutionary group from Charles Garry Faye Stender prison law project to black panthers weather underground who bombed Park Pokice station killing one officer and invaded Ingleside police station killing a secretary.

    I saw a convicted murderer made under sheriff.

    I knew Bernadette Dorhn under a false name when she bombed Park police station. She, weather underground founder, was on the run from bombings and murders on the east coast.

    She came to San Francisco and worked for one of those do gooder federally funded agencies under a false name.

    Her agency was an off shoot of the prison law project. Prison law project was White liberals trying to foment a revolution by black criminals.

    The Black Muslim zebra killers, the black guerilla revolutionary movement, prison law project; the American Friends Service Committee worked hand in glove with all those deeply revolutionary movements including the police station bombers.

    If you don’t know who they are, google Jim Jones People’s Temple Johnstown massacre.

    Did you know that many of the White people involved in that atrocity were Quakers of the American Friends Service Committee? I know because I was there in San Francisco.

    Some of those Peoples Temple Quakers were working with Charles Garry in the early 1960s when he started the People’s Law Project which spent a great deal of time at nearby San Quentin prison recruiting for the violent revolution the liberals wanted.

    Last horrible thing the American Friends Service Committee did was when the city wanted to close down the gay bathhouses at the start of the AIDS epidemic. By wallowing around in each other’s germs the gays created AIDS and other nasty STDs such as both venereal warts and veneral mushrooms

    The gays massively protested against closing the bathhouses and American Friends Service Committee was right there with them.

    I don’t know about the Vatican Masonic Illuminati conspiracy.

    But I do know that San Francisco was the heart of the revolutionary movement from 1960 on. And I know that east coast Jews and American Friends Quakeres were the Whites leading it.

    I didn’t learn that Marina’s friend and caretaker Ruth Paine was a Quaker till about 1999 or 2000 when someone gave me several cartons of books. About 30 of those books were Kennedy assassination books. I started reading them and learned Ruth Paine was a Quaker who studied Russian.

    But by 1970 I had formed my opinion of American Friends by observing their support of violent revolutionaries like the black panthers black guerilla family prison law project and the weather underground.

    They were involved with Jim Jones and People’s Temple for God’s sake.

    And you can’t deny that black revolutionary CPUSA heroine Angela Davis, purchaser of the guns used in the Marin county shoot out that killed 11 people was sponsored by, and lived with Quakers from age 14 to 22.

    There’s a lot you don’t know about your religion.

    Ruth Paine married a man whose father was head of the Trotskyite faction. She sought out Marina from the first few months in the US. She moved the Oswalds from New Orleans to Dallas. Marina lived with her apart from Lee
    She found Lee the job right on the motorcade route.

    I believe the job really was a coincidence.

    But I saw the American Friends inserting themselves deep into violent revolutionary movements in San Francisco for 20 years. So I don’t believe American Friends are a benign do gooder organization any more than I believe SPLC or BLM are benign do Gooder organizations.

    I saw what American Friends Service Committee did in San Francisco for 20 years. You didn’t.

  480. Sam J. says:
    @Iris

    “…Jack Ruby told an FBI informant to “watch the fireworks” a few hours before President John F Kennedy was assassinated, the latest release of JFK files reveals…”

    If this is true then it strengthens the idea that the CIA and the Jews killed Kennedy. We know, I repeat because people ignore it, that there was more than one shooter because of audio recording from different locations at the same time on the day of the shooting.

  481. @renfro

    You correctly picked me up on treating you as if you were cousin utu but lost all marks by your own almost equally obvious error when you say “you Jews for Israel”. Back to square one.

    On the substance of my narrowly aimed shot at utu: why did he remove “1967″ if not to give the impression that the Egyptian action had put additional pressure on the Israel/Kennedy relationship in 1963? I can’t see an alternative.

    • Replies: @renfro
  482. @CanSpeccy

    Thank you very much for that product of your extraordinary energy. Maybe I won’t get round to covering the same ground though maybe you will get the product of my homework for your 80th birthday.

    Would you care to follow up with your mathematical and analytical skills on the actuarial impasse reached as I have just noted – in my last but one response to him – in reply to renfro?

  483. @Dube

    If Oswald fired the shots, then his feat can be duplicated; but efforts to duplicate his feat have failed, so Oswald did not fire the shots.

    LOL. Do you mean kinda like:

    If Stirling Moss drives the Lotus at 200 mph, then someone else will also.
    No one else drives the Lotus at 200 mph.
    Therefore, Stirling Moss does not drive the Lotus at 200 mph.

    NB: You need a bit more training in logic. Employing a valid form does not provide true premises and conclusion. Worse, you’ve made it clear you’re a poseur.

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @gsjackson
    , @Anonymouse
  484. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    The villain that may not be named:

    Israel.

    Kennedy stood between them and the atomic bomb. Johnson could, and would, supply it. End of story.

  485. Skeptikal says:
    @republic

    The Roth interview is posted somewhere on this thread or another very recent thread.
    The name of Roth’s book is “Methodical Illusion.”
    Her research and analyses are most interesting and she provides, with Levin and also the fellow who owned was it Miter, two missing pieces in the Israel connection.
    I think she has found keys to the mystery.
    Her most important work seems to be the analysis of the phone calls from flight attendants and others on the planes to various people.
    Perhaps the person who posted the interview can post it again.
    I think this is it.

    Reading JFK and the Unspeakable convinced me that there is a connection between Dallas and 911.

  486. @Them Guys

    I stopped reading when you got serious. I wasn’t. Just flippant, and mildly complimentary of Ron.

  487. Skeptikal says:
    @Anon

    How the hell do you know what I have seen and not seen?!!
    You don’t!

    Quite apart from that ridiculous assertion, whatever a few individuals did who might also have been Quakers, what they did is about them, not about the Society of Friends.

    Were any of those people BTW Catholics?
    Protestants? Jewish? Your statements are illogical –and sound kind of nuts.

    • Replies: @Anon
  488. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    maybe you will get the product of my homework for your 80th birthday.

    Look forward to it. I may by then be in a position to regale you with the product of my own homework, assuming I survive to my 80th birthday, which I’ll have to if I’m ever going to get the thing done.

  489. gsjackson says:
    @Anon

    Goldman borrowed a car from a friend, to whom the keys were later returned. I don’t know who did it. It sounds like a classic drug hit. Goldman, Nicole and that whack job Faye Resnick allegedly were part of a big drug, porn and prostitution scene centering around the Mezzaluna Restaurant where Goldman worked and the Browns dined the night of the killings. If you want to read speculation of that sort, the book Killing Time is good. It’s at least possible Goldman was the main target (though I think unlikely).

    I read the Jason Simpson book. I don’t like the theory, but it makes more sense than the prosecution case against O.J.

    The Simpson case, by the way, was the first time I found myself going down the media rabbit hole, watching much of the trial while seeing something completely different presented in the press. It was the beginning of understanding that the American Pravda, aka the MSM, always has an agenda, and almost always gets it wrong.

    • Replies: @Anon
  490. @renfro

    Not quite. I went to the link and was about to ask where the doc could be found in the official archive when I realised that – unless you build imaginatively on McCone’s last incomplete sentence – it doesn’t say anything like “[all]reports on Oswald were totally fabricated”.

    • Replies: @renfro
  491. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Project Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird#Project_Mockingbird is actually different from Operation Mockingbird. Reston Sr. was, allegedly, a part of Operation Mockingbird.

    CIA report on Project Mockingbird
    This is one page of a 693-page report issued by the CIA on various topics. Page 21, seen here, dealt with Project Mockingbird.

    https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/cia-report-on-project-mockingbird/295/

    The latter conducted the activity in coordination with the Attorney General (Mr. Robert Kennedy), the Secretary of Defense (Mr. Robert McNamara), and the Director of the Defense. Intelligence Agency (Gen. Joseph Carroll).

  492. Anon[171] •