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The Saker has answered my question: http://thesaker.is/reply-to-paul-craig-roberts-crucial-question/ Except for his belief in the predominance of US military force over Russia in Syria and his possible misreading of my phrase, “turning the other cheek,” to imply Russian meekness rather than a calculated strategy that might be mistaken, I agree with him.

The difference, if there is one, is that by “provocations” I am addressing a broader arena than the possibilities for military confrontation in Syria/Iran and Ukraine. My concerns include, for example, the orchestrated “Skripal poisoning” by a “deadly nerve agent.” This story, despite the total absense of any evidence—indeed, the presence of much evidence against it—continues to develop with ever more absurd accusations. The purpose of this story is to put Russia and its president in the worst possible light, thereby creating a climate of belief for the next false flag attack to be blamed on Russia.

The question is: How much can Washington and its two-bit punk European vassals demonize Russia before it is impossible for the West to deal with Russia in a realistic and responsible manner? What was the Democratic Party and presstitute media thinking, assuming that they are capable of thought, most likely a risky assumption, when they lied, cheated, and stole in order to put Hillary Clinton in the White House? For the United States to have a president who forecloses in advance all negotiation and all trust between the US and Russian governments by declaring the president of Russia to be “the new Hitler” guarantees not only an escalation of dangerous tensions but also guarantees the inability to reduce them. It is this type of escalation more than a possible confrontation between US and Russian forces in Syria that can lead to explosive results.

The most scary fact of our time is that the two men most committed to peaceful relations between the US and Russia—Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin—are the two most demonized people on Earth. The demonization of Trump and Putin is the principal activity of the US media and the Democratic Party.
.
The demonization goes on all day every day. For example, the fake, nonsensical NY Times op-ed written by the NY Times itself and not by an anonymous “senior Trump official” was the principal focus yesterday of NPR. There was nothing balanced about NPR’s coverage. The NPR presstitutes rounded up every anti-Trump demonizer it could find to add to the conclusion that Trump was unfit for office and needed to be removed.

ORDER IT NOW

The previous day Putin was NPR’s target. NPR had the vice chairman of “Open Russia,” a Russiaphobic organization, spewing like a broken fire hydrant the most vile lies and accusations about “Putin’s Russia.” There was no contrary opinion. The NPR host treated it all as the exact truth. In other words, it was a propaganda show, not a news report. What is the purpose of these orchestrated demonizations? Is the purpose to further peace? Understanding? Defuse tensions? Better relations between nuclear powers? Obviously, none of the above.

How can the US media be so utterly stupid and irresponsible as to create a situation in which if a crisis erupts the leaders of the two major nuclear powers cannot speak to one another with an iota of trust? What is more dangerous for the world than the climate of hate Putin/hate Trump that the presstitutes, Democrats, US military/security complex, neocons, and crazed Republicans like John McCain have created?

The fact is this: In the United States and UK, political and media voices are doing everything to make impossible a responsible relationship between the two great powers. What could be more certain to result in war?

Many thanks to Ron Unz for hosting this exchange between Martyanov, The Saker, and myself.

(Republished from PaulCraigRoberts.org by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. The deep state would stoop down into the foulist gutters, imaginable, in order to splash mud onto Trump and Putin. They are utterly without shame and utterly ruthless.

  2. This article series is truly pathetic. You’ve demonstrated, once more, why you have ceased to be well regarded in the US. Not everything is a result of neocon stupidity or those nasty Joooooos.

    Putin has been an idiot. He’s not acted the part of the wise statesman anymore than Obama did in the US. He’s drubbing his country and the provocations he’s attempting in the Donbas and the Azov, with his invasion of Crimea, have shown Putin to be an idiot of the first magnitude as his example Hitler was.

    Get off the meth Roberts and wake up.

  3. FB says:

    I think recent events are proving PCR right…

    The ‘anonymous’ oped in the NYT changes everything…it is possible that the POTUS may in fact be effectively sidelined on decision making…including use of force in Syria…

    As I stated in my comment on the other thread, this means we could soon be in a shooting war with Russia over Idlib…

    Anyone with half a brain could see that there was a battle going inside the US government ever since Trump moved into the white house…he has been hemmed in at every turn…his policies have been undermined and vetoed, by whom and what we don’t even know…

    We have no way of knowing what exactly is going on and who is in charge…to say that is unprecedented is an understatement…

    Here is my question for Martyanov and Saker…what happens now if the US launches a serious missile strike on the SAA and the Russian officers embedded with them…?

    And here is my second question…would such a scenario even be possible right now, had the Russian air defenses on April 13 returned fire on those cruise missiles launched by the US, UK and France…?

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Arioch
  4. In the United States and UK, political and media voices are doing everything to make impossible a responsible relationship between the two great powers

    The US and the UK have the misfortune to be under the control of (in Kevin MacDonald’s words) a hostile elite, and the elite has unfinished business with Russia, having already tried and failed to subdue her.

  5. @Quartermaster

    Get off the meth Roberts and wake up.

    Learn to use a comma before you chastise.

  6. Anonymous[119] • Disclaimer says:

    Two questions for PCR, the Saker, and Andrei.

    1) To what extent is Russia coordinating counter strikes with its allies China and Iran. As much as Andrei brings up Russian military strength, I don’t think this is that important. What is more important is countering the west in the media, entertainment, trade, diplomacy, etc etc. So far there is OBOR, but what else is Russia doing?

    2) What is the plan when Putin is no longer president? Conceivably the West only has to wait till there is another president in place in Russia and odds are that the next man up will not be able to fill the shoes of a man like Putin. What is the succession plan, and is Putin even thinking about this?

  7. gsjackson says:

    I may have done so before, but must object again to PCR’s favorite adjective for the American people — insouciant — as far too generous. The more apt descriptor would seem to fall somewhere between oblivious and brain-dead. But lots of them showing up on alt-sites looking for truth, so maybe that’s changing in some measure.

  8. FB says:
    @Quartermaster

    Fartermaster…you seem to have a habit of doing a face-plant on this forum…

    Do you remember your idiotic comment about Putin and the new weapons he announced back in March…?

    And do you remember my reply to you, about that here…

    And the nuclear cruise missile here…

    Now apparently you are still oblivious to the fact that you are a COMPLETE FUCKING IMBECILE…

  9. Erebus says:
    @FB

    …what happens now if the US launches a serious missile strike on the SAA and the Russian officers embedded with them…?

    Martyanov and Saker, never mind the Kremlin’s brain-trust, are above my pay grade, but here’s what I’d do:

    I’d slam Kalibrs/Zircons/___?s with dummy warheads into the launch platforms from stand-off distances, having initiated a sufficiently intense EW environment to enable some of those missiles to hit without any warning at all. Lots of big holes in big ships, but minimal loss of life if they stay afloat.

    That would send shockwaves through the USM and around the world. A geo-political earthquake would ensue.

    Had something like that happened Apr 13:

    …would such a scenario even be possible right now…?

    The Apr 13 fiasco looked very much as if it had been staged in coordination with the Russians. If so, any lethal retaliation would have been breaking a deal made at high levels. Not good.

    The Russians will act exactly as per the understanding they have with the USM. If there’s no deal, or if the US breaks it and Russian assets and/or personnel are targeted and hit, we may see something like my scenario.

    My guess is that Assad’s next regularly-scheduled-gas-attack-on-his-own-people-for-no-reason-at-all has been so publicized, and Russian SFs so dispersed throughout the SAA, that the plan will either get dropped, or we’ll see another scripted episode of wayward Tomahawks and destruction of low value targets.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  10. FB says:

    The Apr 13 fiasco looked very much as if it had been staged in coordination with the Russians. If so, any lethal retaliation would have been breaking a deal made at high levels.

    Agree with you in principle…however we have no way of knowing if such a deal existed or if it was just a combination of US being very careful not to hit Russians…and Syrian air defense doing a good job…

    As for sending Kalibrs with ‘dummy’ warheads…good luck with that…there is no such thing as ‘blanks’ for these kinds of weapons…these things are made to be lethal and there is no way to swap out the warhead in any case even if someone wanted to…it would cause a shift in the missile’s center of gravity which would make it unflyable due to reasons of basic physics…

    Some kind of whacky scheme like that would require months of work, including a redesign of the entire missile airframe…these things don’t happen overnight…Remember the USS Ross and Porter…they were the DDGs that launched T-hawks at Shayrat back in April 2017…guess what…those expended T-hawks have still not been replaced…both ships are now back in the med with something like 28 T-hawks each on board…less than half their usual complement…

    Also we don’t know what’s going in the white house…there could be an open mutiny under way…

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Arioch
  11. FB says:

    Just a few snippets about recent developments in Syria…

    Now the US has announced officially that it will NOT be withdrawing from Syria…but will be doubling down instead…

    ‘…the Trump administration is shifting towards a more expansive plan for Syria that involves not just the defeat of ISIS, but also reducing Iranian influence and preventing Bashar al-Assad from consolidating power…’

    That from James Jeffrey, the US special representative for Syria…we note here that Jeffrey was deputy national security advisor in the George W Bush regime and has a long track record as a swamp creature on the Middle East file…how does a dirtbag like this even get appointed to the Syria file by a POTUS that wants to get out of Syria…?

    Also note the positive reaction from Turkey on this…

    ‘It’s good for Ankara to hear from the US that Assad has no future in Syria and that the departure of all Iranian soldiers and proxy troops from Syria needs to be ensured.’

    Just yesterday we had the summit in Tehran and sultan Erdog was up to his old tricks…suggesting a ‘ceasefire’ for Idlib…which Putin quickly rejected…

    Now many informed observers have been keenly watching Turkey’s stance on the Idlib situation…and we have suspected that Turkey and the US have cooked up an obstructionist plan to prevent the liberation of Syria’s last terrorist enclave…there have been lots of meeting between US and Turkish officials at various levels over the last few weeks and it is now clear that the US and Turkey are going to physically obstruct the SAA in Idlib…which entails military action against the Syrians…and by default the Russian officers in their ranks…

    So this is no joke folks…clearly Trump has lost control of the situation…he was never fully in control to begin with and now the neocons and warmongers are back in a big way and they have actually made some kind of arrangement with Turkey…a country that Trump was attacking…

    Turkey could be a very significant problem for Syria now…again, after having pulled its horns in for a while as relations with the US deteriorated after the coup attempt in 2016…

    There are tensions in the south of Syria also where the US occupies a large patch on the Iraqi border, and where they are harboring ISIS terrorists that have been flushed out of other areas…

    Here is video of a captured Isis commander spilling the beans under interrogation from Russian spetznatz…

    Russia has threatened airstrikes on the Rukbah camp in the US controlled territory in recent days…and the US has just announced its own drills in the area, supposedly as ‘anti-terrorist’ exercises…

    So now we have things obviously heating up…there is not going to be any ‘staged and coordinated’ symbolic US strikes on Syria…this time it’s going to be real…

    So again I ask the experts, Martyanov and Saker, what does Russia do now…maybe just call off the entire Idlib liberation…?

    Maybe removing Assad should be the next move for Putin…?

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  12. “The most scary fact of our time is that the two men most committed to peaceful relations between the US and Russia—Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin—are the two most demonized people on Earth. The demonization of Trump and Putin is the principal activity of the US media and the Democratic Party.”

    With this outrageous nonsense, you lose all credibility, IMO.

    Practically since the day Trump was inaugurated he’s been going out of his way to provoke Russia. Moreover, he went out of his way to make it clear that he was doing many of these provocations of his own volition; they were his own personal actions. So in light of everything he’s done (or failed to do) all of which have made things significantly worse than under Obama, IMO, how can you possibly, POSSIBLY claim that Trump wants “peaceful relations” with Russia?

    “The fact is this: In the United States and UK, political and media voices are doing everything to make impossible a responsible relationship between the two great powers. What could be more certain to result in war?”

    As if Trump – who holds what is perhaps the most powerful political office the world has ever seen – is nothing but an innocent bystander along the road to WW3. If his intentions are so good, yet he finds himself so powerless to do anything to stop it, so utterly impotent in the face of such powerful forces of evil…then why doesn’t he at least resign?

    Why would someone who sincerely wants to “make America great again(?)” have no problem being an instrumentality of the destruction of America for the “deep state”? It makes no sense. A sincere person in his position would take some kind of action to stop the madness, appeal to the people, resign, etc., rather than go along with the “deep state” plan for world rule or bust.

    In light of this, I’m sorry but I have to conclude that you’re either completely delusional, or you’re working for the other side.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Arioch
  13. Erebus says:
    @FB

    …there is no such thing as ‘blanks’ for these kinds of weapons…

    Are you sure about that? I can see no reason why 500kg of iron/whatever couldn’t be installed in place of a 500kg warhead, or whatever overall mass has to be replaced to maintain the missile’s aerodynamics.

    Dummies are routinely used for testing and during drills. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2675087/trident-fiasco-as-brit-sub-fired-dummy-missile-at-the-united-states-in-first-nuke-test-for-four-years/ I realize the Trident’s a ballistic missile which are routinely tested with dummy warheads, but is there some technical reason a cruise missile can’t deploy a dummy warhead? What do decoy missiles deploy?

    As for how “whacky” the idea is, the only question worth asking is how effective it would be in getting a message across without inviting certain escalation. If there’s a better way, I’m quite happy to hear it.

  14. FB says:

    Nuclear armed cruise missiles are a different matter…there have been cases of these warheads replaced with dummies of the same size and weight for testing…but nuclear is a different ballgame…

    As for target practice, target drones are built specifically for that type of testing…but again, it may be possible that some Kalibrs and T-hawks have at some point in time been modified in that way for a specific purpose…

    But like I said, this type of modification would take a lot of work and also flight testing to make sure everything else still worked the way it’s supposed to…I don’t see it as realistic to actually deploy that in a combat scenario…for one thing, testing and combat are completely separate branches…

    Also the idea of an incoming missile with its puny onboard electrical power and puny antenna somehow jamming a hugely powerful ship radar is out of the question…I don’t believe even a large jamming aircraft could accomplish that…and such a large aircraft flying close enough to a ship to do anything would also be a target for the ship’s SAMs…

    Anyway my point is that there should have been a forceful response before now…and that could have been simply the Russian air defenses shooting down the incoming cruise missiles and not the ships or planes that launched them…

    That would have been sufficient…but now we are in a situation where the US has escalated two times already and are ready to raise the stakes much higher this time around…

    I still do not see how the entire USM and any ‘coalition’ [including Turkey] can actually stop the success of the SAA in liberating Idlib…they simply do not have the forces in place to do that…

    But if they strike there WILL be casualties…casualties that might have been avoided had Putin acted more decisively…plus the danger for more escalation…if Turkey jumps in with both feet we could have a major war…

  15. @FB

    “Maybe removing Assad should be the next move for Putin…?”

    Seriously? Putin could’ve gone along with that a long time ago and spared a lot of blood and treasure. Doing it now would be a humiliating act of unconditional surrender, which would no doubt finish Putin’s political career and set the stage for the attack on Iran.

    Moreover, the conflict in Syria is not just about Assad or about Syrian sovereignty, or Iran, but about standing up to a Satanic empire that seeks to put an end to the concept of national sovereignty.

    I don’t see how Putin can back down at this point.

    • Replies: @FB
  16. FB says:
    @Harold Smith

    I don’t see how Putin can back down at this point.

    Neither do I…but at this point tensions are much higher than they’ve ever been…having been ratcheted up slowly but surely with each and every provocation that went unanswered…

    And that’s exactly why PCR is correct…had this been ‘nipped in the bud’ BEFORE tensions reached this level, it would have been better all round…

    • Replies: @Arioch
  17. @Quartermaster

    You must drink their kool-aid daily.
    Russia has and will continue to be in the moral right. They are defending legitimate interests. Your side believes they have none.
    Stop drinking their kool-aid and smoking their crack.

  18. “Neither do I…but at this point tensions are much higher than they’ve ever been…having been ratcheted up slowly but surely with each and every provocation that went unanswered…

    And that’s exactly why PCR is correct…had this been ‘nipped in the bud’ BEFORE tensions reached this level, it would have been better all round…”

    Now that you mention it, I should say this is exactly why so many of us voted for the man who presented himself as an alternative to the unfortunate denouement we now face. We voted for a candidate who promised to cooperate with Russia and fight terrorism, rather than cooperate with terrorists and fight Russia. We voted for a candidate who promised to put America first, not the jewish extremist agenda.

    Alas something happened along the way. The man that we installed into the office of president is not the candidate we voted for. And this was painfully obvious very shortly after he was inaugurated.

    Yet despite the obviousness of Trump’s breathtaking reversals/traitorous betrayals, Paul Craig Roberts continues to this day to tell the world – including the Russians – that Trump is a good man.

    So out of one side of his mouth, Paul Craig Roberts tells Russia that the man holding the most powerful political office in the U.S., the man who is the commander in chief of the military force that is causing all the trouble in Syria – actually wants good relations with Russia – and out of the other side of his mouth, he blames Russia for not attacking the military forces under the direct control of the good man who wants to fight terrorism and cooperate with Russia. Do you see the irony here?

    And this is why I bash Roberts every chance I get.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  19. Erebus says:

    … he blames Russia for not attacking the military forces under the direct control of the good man who wants to fight terrorism and cooperate with Russia. Do you see the irony here?

    On the face of it, yes. However, the irony disappears if one peels the top layer back.

    Judging by the body language and especially the circumstances surrounding their meetings (alone, running well past allotted length, etc), it’s difficult to ignore the notion that Putin and Trump appear to understand each other. Assuming that’s so, one of the things they’d understand is that Trump’s political running room is all but non-existent. Whenever he takes a rational stance publicly, he’s drowned out by a cacophony of dissident and/or hostile voices.

    That Trump is a political newbie who’s understanding of the depths of Washington’s power labyrinths has proven woefully inadequate is obvious. Putin probably knows better than Trump himself how deep and convoluted those tunnels go. Nevertheless, Trump is far and away the highest profile American politician who’s given voice to the desirability of detente with Russia. It is Putin’s task to do everything possible to increase Trump’s running room, and above all to do nothing to shrink it further.

    Yes, Russia’s taking some hits, but to little effect. It can take a lot more. However, at some political tipping point, Putin’s gonna have to make a move that opens the field for Trump, or helps him do it. A redline crossed at the right moment is what the Russians will be looking for. We’ve obviously not seen that yet. IMHO, the Swamp’s perfidy needs to be further, and so obviously, exposed as to raise the public’s notice and create a politically clear climate for more energetic action. The recent anonymous NYT’s Op-Ed helps. Keeping it in the news by incessant tweeting helps even more.

    I realize this sounds like “deep collusion” with a twist, but it doesn’t have to be active collusion to work. A convergence of interests between international power groups that understand what’s at stake is all it takes to move things in a desired direction.

    What’s a few, largely misdirected, missiles when the deep criminality in Washington is slowly surfacing for all to see? Why do anything to stop its surfacing? Instead, better to infuriate it, help it rage incoherently while maintaining close contact with people like Dunford who knows where the real booby traps and red lines are.

  20. Arioch says:

    This PCR’s article completely misses me.

    The exchange started with PCR asking two ethnically Russian Americans whether Russia’s government is acting wise in her meekness (real or alleged) or should find ways to cause ISA some sharp pain.

    Side note: there was some psychology book saying that whatever lesson you want give to pets it should be immediate, during or directly after the pet’s certain activity. The book then argued that while humans are more flexible and more capable of reasoning and retrospection, the strongest “feedback loops” still are tjose inherited from animals, immediate one. And immediate reaction is still best way to train people, even if by a lesser marging. The PCR’s lamentations about Russia not giving USA immediate slap for every transgression, and he writes for yewrs about that, make me very sad: de facto PCR either tries to reduce Russia to a quite primitive animal having neither memory nor vision but only simplistic instincts, or he declares America being so. Both options are utterly pitiful.

    Back to the track, though.

    So, PCR asked Saker and SmoothieX12 to discuss whether Kremlin should be more of a short tempered bully. IOW he proposed to reflect upon how Russia should deal with America in oarticukar and the situation in general.

    Smoothie and then Saker outlined their thoughts about Russia’s dealing with the situation, their doubts and hopes.

    It all revolved around everyone’s interest to find a better practical approach for Moscow, or to at least to be soothed that it is already as good as it can be.

    Then this article.
    It is told to be the followup to the later Saker’s reply, thus the next iteration of the “what can Russia do here” discussion. Except that it is not. The article hardly even touches Russian policy, but it repeats how dangerously ignorant American journalists and politicians are.

    Well, yes, so they are, but isn’t it flogging a dead horse after all the recent years? If this reflection should be adding some new background information to what Russia’s policy could be, then i fail to extract one. Maybe a more experienced or refined person could.

    How cam they be so? Well, i am pretty sure sic an experienced and smart man as PCR knows it. One thing is called “Tragedy of Commons” and is unresolved paradox (if that is paradox) of individualism. Given how collectivism is demonized in America and the looming of the most extreme breeds of reflectionless individualism – how else it realistically could be? Dostoevsky remarked about cup of tea and end of the world. Here it is, live action role playing of it.

    Another thing, since Hitler was already mentioned, would be the famous excuses:
    Hitler himself hardly killed a single person during WW2.
    His subordinates just followed orders.

    Similar to the “collective irresponsibility” trick of a gang of thugs beating a homeless to death. They all are ready and willing to be wrist-slapped for beating the man, but none of them, personally, did the killing. There was a fight but none of them is killer. “Prove it was my punch the fatal one” says everyone of them.

    Now, modern presstitutes happily combine all those traits. They do not personally kill, they are a uniform homogenized mob, they are following orders.

    The radical individualism of theirs became a coinsidence theory, when watching a car pierced by a machinegun, they would claim each bullet is exclusively and wholly owning its misdeeds while no correlation between their activities can be asserted. Thus if their article trigger some violence they are always innocent and all the blame lies with their readers who commited the physical harm.

    The third thing maybe stems from that American artefact behind a phrase “not challenged in courts yet”. The very concept of a trial where parties do not intend to prevail and win, but rather just to explore some terra incognita and charter it. Meeting the radical individualism it seems to mutate into some state of the mind considering any environment as something opressing by its very existense. “Offense culture” is the buzzword maybe. People feel some revulsion to even consider their limitations and potential agression from other parties. To concoct an obviously exagerrated example, to reduct to absurd, it would be a person strolling in a dead night over unlitten highway in dark clothes, because he damn has the right and the drivers damn must watch where they go. Any suggestion that this approach, maybe noble, is perhaps not practically the best one, would be met by natural anger and frustration. Those people seem to live just to “challenge in court” every potential conflict with the environment they may think of. They would – at least in internet holywars – go swinging golden chains into a worst of ghettos just to establish they do have the right. Every suggestion at cooperation (which necessarily includes conpromise) they switch into “who do you think may order me to give up on….” rants. Etc.

    Slam these together, and you have the madhouse of American establishment.

    Well, i do not think i spelled something new, that anyone here did not think himself ad nauseum already. It is all so glaring that i believe we all know it. And PCR with his vast experience knows it better than most.

    However what should be Kremlin’s behavior that would minimize math expectation of net damage we all receive from those “Clown Killers from Outer State” ? That was the question which sparkled the discussion, in both articles and comments, week ago. And that is what seems totally be evading me in this article, one expected to be a follow up but looking more like a twist in the tale.

  21. Arioch says:
    @FB

    > Here is my question for Martyanov and Saker

    I am not sure they monitor PCR’s comments just in case.

    Perhaps try asking in their articles?

    Saker is rarely answering comments anyway though

  22. Arioch says:
    @Erebus

    > I’d slam Kalibrs/Zircons/___?s with dummy warheads into the launch platforms

    No, big NO.

    Do you know how USSR got 2nd generation guided air-to-air missiles?

    The first generation was developed in USSR not much later than in USA, the missile was guided by the aircraft pilot. Which meant it was not that much more efficient than good old machine gun. The target could either evade or counter-attack, forcing the pilot to loose aim, and then the missile went nowhere.

    USA then developed shoot-and-forget self-guided missiles. And USSR could not do it. They just had no the spark of inspiration that would show the way.

    ….then one day USA jets hosted in Taiwan tried to shoot mainland China jet. The missile (AFAIR it was Sparrow) hit the Chinese jet but failed to explode. Chinese pilot emergently flew home and landed, after which the missile was carefully cut out of the jet and carefully transported to Moscow. There the careful disassembly and examination were successful too. As some missile developers put in memoirs, “it was the whole university course brought to us from China”.

    USSR got the missing link and soon rolled out their own exact replica of American AAM. Reportedly after Warsaw Block collapse NATO pilots entertained themselves disassembling an American missile and their Soviet clone and then assembling to randomly hybrid missile and shooting them at the drills – the missiles worked perfectly, the clones were but ideal.

    Soon USSR developed their own next-gen missiles. As soon as that wall been broken, the further research went pretty well.

    ———

    Now, what you just proposed is exactly giving up Russian most secret missiles intact to USA, provide them all the know how.

    If to trust Vladimir Rezun – one of his jobs was collecting cannon shell shards from NATO shooting ranges. Even shards of exploded shells told Soviet intelligence enough to keep scavenging them. Of course no one would want to gift NATO with intact and assembled top secret missiles. I think if there would not be a massive all-out salvo to sink all the NATO ships in Mediterranean, then no any new missile would be even launched – to sink one or two ships the USSR-made familiar missiles would be enough, given salvo numerous sufficiently, so why risking helping USA with their research?

  23. Arioch says:
    @Harold Smith

    > As if Trump – who holds what is perhaps the most powerful political office the world has ever seen

    Putin was inaugurated at the very start of year 2000.
    More so, he was not an outsider, he was heading FSB since 1998.

    Try to list what Putin had achieved by those very first two years, 2000 – early 2002?
    He did not resigned neither in 2002 nor later.

  24. Arioch says:
    @FB

    > And that’s exactly why PCR is correct…had this been ‘nipped in the bud’ BEFORE tensions reached this level, it would have been better all round…

    You mean if Russia turned DC into radioactive debris?

    Because you can hardly “nip” guys like McCain, Killary and their ilk without physically restraining killing them. American nations fails to restrain them. The only practical method for Russian nation to kill them would be a sudden all-out attack.

    A pinprick like few deplorables sinking in Mediterranean would not “nip” them in a slightest, quite the opposite would be a fear porn for them to use in their scheming.

  25. Arioch says:
    @Harold Smith

    I have much sympathy for PCR though I barely can read his articles last two years.
    For example his pen-recent one: http://www.unz.com/proberts/armageddon-rides-in-the-balance/

    > A realistic alternative to military action would be for Washington to stand aside as Syria reconstitutes itself and use a propaganda war to blame Syria and Russia……

    > Washington has long used an expertly manufactured fear of Russia to control Europe. Fear can keep Europe in line…..

    Five stages of grief.
    PCR demonstrates the “bargaining” stage.
    I wish he just stopped worrying and loved the bomb finally!

    I think I can feel his agony. I think I can feel how he needs to speak himself out before the horror would crash his sanity, cry himself asleep.
    I do have sympathy to his desperation and pain, yet….
    Like a broken record.

    Yes, we are in a dead-end. The pieces are set. The people are divided upon this and that axis. The crazy ones are more or less crazy, the determined ones arte more or less determined, etc. They don’t even themselves know how strong or weak is their determination, it would be revealed when push comes.

    It is hardly probable that much realignment can happen no matter what the last desperate efforts. It only waits for the impact and opening the cards and learning where are the numbers and other strength.

    ….one flew east, one flew west, one flew over the cuckoo’s nest.

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