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I find myself agreeing with about half of Phil Giraldi’s most recent diatribe against Israel, while shrugging my shoulders at the rest. I’d be the last to deny that the Israeli government has taken gross advantage of their “special relations” with the US or that GOP media drool on cue over “the only democracy in the Middle East.” Despite my advanced age, I learned the story about the Israeli military’s sinking the USS Liberty off the coast of Egypt only very recently. This is not the kind of news that our media, and least of all such staunch AIPAC-allies as the Wall StreetJournal, has cared to push to the front. Further, what I did know about this deliberate sinking back in the late 1960s was carefully doctored by all the usual journalistic suspects. Finally I would have to agree with Phil that the antics of AIPAC and their neocon cheering gallery are utterly indecent. These campaigns of distortion and vilification are enough to turn the strongest stomach. AIPAC propaganda does not lag far behind the worst forms of totalitarian disinformation for its mendacity and hysteria. Having seen my own career derailed because of my supposed softness toward the PLO, after a neocon hit squad went after me at a university that will remain nameless, I can assure Phil that I loathe the same people he does, perhaps even more intensely.

Less to my liking is the political yardstick he would apply to both the US and Israel. Phil condemns the Israelis for being what at least one of his bloggers found to be admirable, an ethnically based nation state. I fully share this reader’s position that there is nothing aberrant about such an arrangement. Most Western governments in the nineteenth century, before their turn toward global democracy under American tutelage, were exactly what Phil finds obnoxious about Israel.

Such states sometimes acted on the basis of their belief in the durability of ethnic ties. Although the countries whither their co-ethnics moved might have been justified in trying to alter this relation, the states these emigrants left understandably tried to hold on to their loyalties. In the late nineteenth century Scandinavian and other European states viewed their emigrants who departed for the US as citizens or subjects of the home country.

The other side of this story is better known. Hyphenated Americans, including many Northern European Protestants, showed an attachment to the “old country” for generations after they arrived on these shores. Moreover, in the first post-Communist presidential election in Poland in 1990, adults of Polish extraction residing outside Poland were allowed to cast ballots. A businessman who had immigrated to Canada, Stanislaw Tyminski, finished second in the general race, garnering the votes of ethnic Poles who were then living outside their ancestral country.

The Israeli situation is admittedly a bit different from what has just been described. Jews who reside outside Israel mostly never lived in the “Jewish homeland,” one that was created after the ancestors of most American and Canadian Jews moved (predominantly from the Russian Pale of settlement) to the US and other Western countries. Most Jewish supporters of Israel cheer on and subsidize what is an ancestral country only in a remote and partly literary sense. Still and all, the fact that Israel was founded on ethnic solidarity would not make it different from a multitude of other political entities that reveal the same trait. Phil’s attempt to treat post-ethnic states as the norm flies in the face of most of the human experience and is contradicted even by a great deal of modern Western history.

The advocates of Israel who belabor us with special pleading typically misrepresent the object of their passionate affection. They do so for two reasons. One, as members of a minority group, Jewish supporters of Israel ‘living in exile” (yehudim bagaluth) do not want Christian countries to be ethnically exclusive, a right they reserve for Jews, and therefore work to depict Israel as a Near Eastern version of New York City or LA, plus interesting biblical sites. That way one can have one’s cake and eat it at the same time. That is, one can gush over Israel as a model pluralistic democracy while calling for open borders and multicultural initiatives for the goyim.

Two, the Christian Zionists who serve the GOP and whose fantasies are nurtured by the Murdoch media, want to view Israel as being “like us.” Therefore it should not surprise us that such paradigmatic Zionist spokesmen as Cal Thomas and Mike Huckabee alternate their hymns to Martin Luther King and Ronald Reagan with praise for Israeli democracy. It may not be incidental to this practice that the advocates in question depend for their livelihoods on the neocon-Murdoch media. What they tell us has far less to do with esoteric interpretations of the Book of Revelations than with who is buttering whose bread. And let’s forget about the war on terror as a necessary reason for the Zionist enthusiasm exhibited by GOP leadership. Here the “Israeli asset” is brought up to justify an established position, which would continue to be proclaimed even if no Muslim terrorist had appeared on the scene. No matter how the world situation may change from day to day, the Jerusalem Post, WSJ, and Weekly Standard always finds reasons for greater American assistance to Israel and more determined American opposition to Israel’s enemies. Needless to say, Zionist philanthropy and Murdoch billions should not be discounted when we talk about this subject.

ORDER IT NOW

Although I agree with Phil that the US should not be doing Israel’s bidding or burning incense at the altar of the Israeli premier, it seems that he and I have very different views about what is a proper American foreign policy. Unlike him, I do not view with pride what the US did to bring down the white majority government in South Africa. That government, which ran afoul of an artificially manufactured “world opinion,” did a much better job at maintaining a rape-free, economically productive country than the African National Congress that the US helped bring to power.

I also don’t think we should be toppling Western governments that do not follow our lead into becoming whatever American elites decide we should be at a given point in time. Phil appears to be not so much angry at the way neocons, AIPAC or the Likud government defines “our special relation” to Israel as he is at our failure to play kingmakers for the Israelis. Unless I’m mistaken, he and the Jewish leftist critics of Israel favored by him would like to turn Israel into something that represents the current American model for export. My own position is quite different from this one and is based on the biblical exhortation “Physician, heal thyself!” In my view it is not so much the Israeli nation as the global missionaries in the US that needs to be healed, from insufferable arrogance.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Israel, Israel Lobby, Nationalism 
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  1. “In my view it is not so much the Israeli nation as the global missionaries in the US that needs to be healed, from insufferable arrogance.”

    So, it’s the “global missionaries” in the US, (Jewish Leftists and Giraldi), which are to blame for their arrogance of spreading the flawed American model or what is commonly known in the U.S. as “democracy”.

    But if we look a little closer at current events, beyond the old South African example, which was not imposing a U.S. model but rather equal rights for all its citizens, the missionaries are not as the author describes. It’s not Jewish leftist or Giraldi that that are the “global missionaries” promoting flawed models. Just look at the think tank that set the framework and ideological justification for much of the chaos in the last few decades, the Project for the New American Century, and you will find the culprits.

    PNAC’s principles like it’s cousin, Richard Perle’s A Clean Break, provide the framework and ideology of preemptive war and regime change, imposing “democracy”, on those states deemed by the neocons as a threat to Israel’s regional hegemony. I can’t find a single “Jewish leftist or Giraldi” in the founders (William Kristol, Robert Kagan) or the signatories: Richare Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliot Abrams, Eliot A. Cohen, Midge Decter, Randy Scheunemann, Robert Zoelick and the list goes on and on. These were predominately Zionists promoting an Israeli-centric policy designed primarily for the benefit of Israel. Of course there were ideologically like-minded Shabbat goy (Cheney, Bolton, Rumsfeld, etc.) willing to promote the policies but make no mistake the founding principles and vision were Zionist and Israeli-centric.

    It was these forces that created the current chaos in the Middle East by spreading propaganda to justify the invasion o Iraq. And it’s the same neocon force (Victoria Nuland, aka “Vickie Kagan” and Carl Gershman) that organized the coup in Ukraine to punish Russia for intervening in the Syrian conflict and keeping Obama out of the war.

    My biblical exhortation to Israel and its agents in the U.S. is “Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

    • Replies: @Man on the street
  2. I’m pleasantly surprised by Gottfried’s position here. That was a hard-hitting piece by Giraldi so I fully expected to see it had finally broken Gottfried’s valiant (if eccentric) pro-goy stand. By the ‘wrong reasons’ I expected to be reading that this time Giraldi had gone too far and it was time to drop the A-bomb on him. But Gottfried got it right. The wrong reason to criticize Israel really is its ethnocentric apartheid policies.

    I say the above with one proviso. Gottfried writes:

    Most Western governments in the nineteenth century, before their turn toward global democracy under American tutelage, were exactly what Phil finds obnoxious about Israel.

    Yes, Paul, in the nineteenth century. Western countries have unquestionably made amends for the unduly harsh racial policies of those days – even if they have by today grossly overshot the mark. Israel, on the other hand, is yet to take any serious steps towards making amends for its own unduly harsh ethnic policies whatsoever. That is a crucial difference. Separatist policies based on ethnic and racial realities are certainly the way to go, but the crude, unrepentant, offensive racism that Israel practices must stop. To put it straightforwardly: Israel owes the Palestinians.

    • Replies: @Chug Thug
  3. Samson says:

    Can someone tell me how the USS Liberty incident/accident that happened 47(!) years ago (in 1967, during a war, mind you) is relevant to anything, really anything, that goes on today between the US and Israel?

    Seriously, when will Americans stop crying like toddlers about an obscure incident/accident that happened almost five decades ago?

    Kind of reminds me of the incessant whining about “foreign aid” to Israel, which amounts to a meagre 3% of Israeli GDP, which is delivered to ensure Israel remains militarily dependent on the US (thus serving American, not Israeli, interests), and which is far less than what the Americans give to Islamic and Arab countries hostile to Israel.

    Just recently, US consulate staff, believing they’re entitled to do whatever they feel like doing as if it’s their own damn country, infiltrated with no permission by the IDF a Jewish village (Adei Ad) to investigate false allegations by “””Palestinians””” about uprooted olive trees. Have they apologized for their impudence?

    Will the Americans ever stop their hostility and belligerence towards their allies?

  4. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Unlike him, I do not view with pride what the US did to bring down the white majority government in South Africa.”

    White minority

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  5. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “but the crude, unrepentant, offensive racism that Israel practices must stop”

    Will you please tell us, Silver, a) what it is you’re talking about, including the context (aka the Arabs being a peaceful bunch. duh) in which it happens, b) why, exactly, you believe Israelis owe you anything? Do go on.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  6. “In my view it is not so much the Israeli nation as the global missionaries in the US that needs to be healed, from insufferable arrogance.”

    Agree 100% with Gottfried.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  7. Patriot says:

    Paul,

    Of course, The USS Liberty was NOT sunk, but severely damaged by the Israeli attack — an understandable mistake considering how difficult it is to find info about this due to the media and US government blackouts.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  8. dearieme says:

    The ethnically-based nation state was, in Europe, largely an invention of the 19th century. Or the very end of the 18th, if you want to include the French republicans. It’s not remotely the old European way of managing things.

    • Replies: @David
  9. @Samson

    Samson

    Thanks for helping the Unz Review’s American readers put 20th century events into the proper historical prospective. (“Seriously, when will Americans stop crying like toddlers about an obscure incident/accident that happened almost five decades ago?”) I don’t suppose Israel’s loud and well financed chorus of supporters in Hollywood and despicable hypocrites like Elie Wiesel, Marvin Hier and Abe Foxman have ever used the Holocaust (TM) to justify the ongoing Zionist campaign of ethnocide against the Palestinians.

    • Replies: @solontocroesus
  10. Noah172 says:
    @Samson

    Can someone tell me how the USS Liberty incident/accident that happened 47(!) years ago (in 1967, during a war, mind you) is relevant to anything, really anything, that goes on today between the US and Israel?

    They attacked a ship that was clearly, visibly marked as American (every crew member has said that the US flag was flapping in the breeze, and the ship’s name was painted in big bright letters on the side), not merely with one accidental strafing, which might be forgivable, but with repeated air and then attempted submarine attacks. An act of war, that is. Then, they used their fifth column within the American body politic to suppress a full investigation. Then they dawdled for years in paying full compensation, which wasn’t even really full even when they did pay. They have never admitted their wrongdoing.

    Seriously, when will Americans stop crying like toddlers about an obscure incident/accident that happened almost five decades ago?

    Seriously, when will your kind stop whining (and making movies, TV programs, museum exhibits, etc.) about a holocaust that occurred seven decades ago, which America did not start, and which America helped to end through enormous cost in blood and treasure?

    Kind of reminds me of the incessant whining about “foreign aid” to Israel, which amounts to a meagre 3% of Israeli GDP

    American support of Israel is a lot more than direct cash aid. The Israeli economy is dependent on, and has prospered greatly from, the US-Israel relationship. Israel has run up large (for Israel) trade surpluses with the US due to the overly generous US-Israel Free Trade Agreement of 1985. Bilateral US-Israel trade is Israel’s lifeblood. Israel has also benefited from US intelligence, both freely shared and stolen, with no serious consequences for the latter kind. The US protects Israel from UN sanction. And worst of all, US blood and treasure have been squandered fighting Israel’s enemies (Operation Nickel Grass, Reagan in Lebanon, Persian Gulf War, Iraq, and possibly Iran with whomever wins the next presidential election).

    Just recently, US consulate staff, believing they’re entitled to do whatever they feel like doing as if it’s their own damn country

    Don’t want American meddling in your internal business? Quit taking the goyim’s money. Still want your welfare check? Then you have to listen to our concerns — and don’t throw [expletive] stones at our unarmed diplomatic staff!

    Will the Americans ever stop their hostility and belligerence towards their allies?

    Well, that’s chutzpah. Lavon Affair, theft of nuclear materials, the Liberty attack, Pollard, Franklin, sale of stolen weapons tech to China, false intelligence to sway America into invading Iraq, manipulation of the American political process… how’s that for “hostility and belligerence”?

    • Replies: @PokeTheTruth
    , @Mohamed
  11. TomB says:

    The problem with Gottfried’s piece is the same precise great virtue of Geraldi’s.

    That is, Gottfried gets us right back into the same debate that has led our politics to essentially be subjugated by Israel for 45+ years now: That is, debating the merits of the *degree* of support the U.S. should give Israel, which allows the dragging in of every facet of every issue imaginable (“is Israel better or worse than apartheid S. Africa?”) … all of which has worked *entirely* to the benefit of Israel and to the detriment of the U.S.

    Who frames the issue wins the debate. And if it’s been one thing for Israel to achieve what it has vis a vis the U.S., it has been this frame that has allowed it to maintain and ever-increase what it gets from us. Including not only our treasure but our blood. (See, e.g., it clearly howling for us to go to war with Iran now.)

    The great point of Geraldi’s was saying let’s re-frame the debate so as to not just jump assumptions, and thus get at the first logical question which is whether to any degree at all (beyond the humanitarian presumably, if that is ever needed) we should be supporting Israel.

    And this of course re-frames the debate precisely where it belongs and in a position of unassailable symmetry too: I.e., What is in the interests of the *United States*, instead of us trying to assess just how much of our support Israel deserves at any given time based on some ridiculous galaxy worth of ultimately un-assesseable factors.

    If Israel has the right to base its foreign policy on its own interests then so do we. And as manifestly correct and fair is Phil’s pushing of this framework back to that fundamental point, it is a testament to the corrupt degree of our discourse that it is also just about a unique argument amongst our commentariat, and thus also a testament to Phil’s importance now.

    Let’s leave it to the pseudo-critics of Israel to try to drag us into weighing the relative goodness or badness of Israel when it comes to … the Palestinians, or the purity of their democracy or commitment to plurality, or … whatever. Because just as one sees with, for instance, J-Street, of course we will hear all kinds of moderate-sounding statements. And then, just as with J-Street, when the rubber is about to meet the road there it will be, thundering against any diminution or indeed any lack of increase of any and all kinds of aid to it at all.

    He who frames the terms of the debate wins. And yet, like Charlie Brown constantly assuming Lucy can be a good place-holder, we constantly find ourselves flopping on our backs, time after time, for decades now. Always told we should get up and just try the same thing again.

  12. @Simon in London

    “In my view it is not so much the Israeli nation as the global missionaries in the US that needs to be healed, from insufferable arrogance.”

    Agree 100% with Gottfried.

    I agree and I’d expand the list of haughty troublemakers to include the BBC, Chatham House types over in England. The US foreign policy establishment and their Brit colleagues seem to feed each other’s egos in the worst way.

    • Replies: @Simon in London
  13. KA says:

    USS liberty is important and pivotal when viewed from every angle possible. It continues to have myriad,toxic,destructive fall out. If it were treated the way 911 pr Pearl Harbor or Lusitania incidents were treated or even addressed with simple economic and diplomatic retaliation, US would not be where it is today and Israel would be a country not unlike Oman or Greece or Sri Lanka.

  14. @Anonymous

    Uriel,

    I’m talking about Israel’s inhumane treatment of its Palestinian population, which has its roots in the ethnoracial distinctions drawn by Israelis. How peaceable or not Arabs may be is completely beside the point – Israel has never given them the opportunity to do anything but resort to violence in a desperate bid to safeguard their fundamental interests. I never claimed Israel owed me anything (though now you mention it I could whip up a few demands…). I claimed Israel owe Palestinians reparations for the injuries done them over the decades, beginning with the planned expulsion Israel conducted in 1948. Failure to do anything less means Israel does not deserve the support of moral men. It’s a case of basic human justice, see.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
  15. KA says:

    Israel has hurt Arab and has hurt America equally. Ethno centric state is not an aberration . What is aberration is the creation of an ethnic state with the blood and money of those not belonging to that particular ethnicity. It is pure extortion and mafia type behaviors . Even Americans are not allowed to think in terms of the losses they have suffered . The negative impacts and continued financial bleeding and corruption of the moral underpinnings of America by the Zionist set- up are felt everyday but never been uttered by WSJ, Fox,NYT,NPR,Congress,Evangelicals,and the university campuses .

  16. @Samson

    Will the Americans ever stop their hostility and belligerence towards their allies?

    Giraldi’s point was that Israel has never been anything but a dead weight around America’s neck. I agree with him and I think it’s putting it mildly.

    Your deliberate obtuseness is most endearing.

  17. KA says:

    Author
    It is shocking that the USS Liberty was not known to you until more recently . It is more baffling than the shock expressed by Afghans when they saw the American soldiers in Afghanistan after 911 or the disbelief expressed by some forest people in India 10 years after the event that India was no longer ruled by British .
    Do you know Lavon Affair?
    Have you heard of the book – Mr President . 50 years in the White House Mail Room – a memoir of the man in charge of the security of White House postal service? He was brought back from retirement by Truman administration to find out and stop the parcel bombs sent to hurt Truman and to put pressure on him by the Zionist

  18. Wally says: • Website

    The hasbara trolls are at again.

    If the cash we give “that shitty little country” is so small then why do they take it?

    Not to mention that every US taxpayers “loan” that ‘Israel’ has received have never been paid back. The Israeli Occupied Congress curiously “forgives” all these huge debts. As if it wasn’t assumed at the beginning.

    Let’s not mention the vast sums they receive from ‘Homeland Security to do much of the spying on US citizens.

    “Jame Bamford of Wired subsequently reported that the NSA had hired secretive contractors with extensive ties to Israeli intelligence to establish 10 to 20 wiretapping rooms at key telecommunication points throughout the country.”
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-impact-of-nsa-domestic-spying-2013-6#ixzz3NxPMujNo

    and:
    “Two Secretive Israeli Companies Reportedly Bugged The US Telecommunications Grid For The NSA”
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-bugged-the-us-for-the-nsa-2013-6#ixzz3NxPnnUFg

    and:
    “IDF Unit 8200 Cyberwar Veterans Developed NSA Snooping Technology”
    Read more:http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/06/08/idf-unit-8200-cyberwar-veterans-developed-nsa-snooping-technology/

    and:
    “Jewish groups get up to 97% of grants from the Homeland Security”
    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/islamophobia-shmislamophobia-97-of-homeland-security-security-grants-go-to-jewish-orgs

    and these gems:

    ‘Israeli Army T-Shirts Mock Gaza Murders’
    http://news.sky.com/story/678761/israeli-army-t-shirts-mock-gaza-killings

    “Pregnant Palistian women and children being targeted by Israelis.”

    “Two teenage Israeli girls carrying a placard in Hebrew reading: “Hating Arabs is not racism, it’s values.”

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Maj. Kong
  19. @Wally

    If the cash we give “that shitty little country” is so small then why do they take it?

    A better question is why do the SLC’s cheerleaders go ballistic at any suggestion the payments should be terminated (or *gulp* paid back)?

  20. KA says:

    The reason so many don’t know anything about Lavon affair or USS liberty
    is this

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/reported-looking-officials

    Settlers are attacking US consulate affairs and NYT buries it and Fox spends time on IS or Boko Haram or on Abu Sayaf .

    Fox never covered Corrie Rachel run over by the IDF ‘s bulldozer and never covered F Dirgan killed by IDF in the sea.

    The reason or the obverse is true as well – We know how intelligent,trustworthy,democratic,egalitarian,western,enlightened the Israel/ Zionsim is due to the crossing of the ethical boundary that no one will contemplate or think of let lone carry out but Zionist will and set a precedent for other psychopathic movement
    —-Israel in the Mind of America by Peter Grose 1983 ,a book highly recommended and praised by Israeli PM and by Rabbi., The Pledge by Leonard Slater 1970,Brandeis and Frankfurter CONNECTION , The Passionate Attachment by Ball and Ball 1992

  21. hr says:

    When most people examine what is moral or ethical conduct to employ in pursuit of advancing the foreign policy of a foreign governments strategic objective for which you have some fealty, concepts of general morality are usually though to apply to stop the murder of innocents in false flag operations designed to start a war you want. If the entity you support has given not only political but religious blessing to such actions if there is an existential threat , then you have a truly dangerous cocktail.
    The end then justifies the means, no matter what the means are? This is not exclusively an Israeli/ Jewish problem, (Maybe this is Gottfried’s point) but the fact that
    1) Israel has such dangerous foreign policy requests,
    2) Their host (the US) is nuclear armed,
    3) They control mainstream media which has has blessed this messianic vision regarding Israel
    4) Their strategic enemies (Russia) are also nuclear armed,
    that makes Zionists (Christian or Jewish) such a menace to the world. and the US in particular. Regarding to 911, if you have the Motive, the Opportunity, and an ethical framework which will permit you to do it, and the influence to to actually carry it out, what is the fail safe mechanism which will stop the implementation?

  22. Robert says:

    “JEW” AND “ISRAEL”: THE 2 MOST DANGEROUS MYTHS

    Thanks for the excellent article. Jew and Israel are myth and delusions and here is the proof.

    There are people in our society who call themselves “Jews” and believe their ancestors were from Israel. They consider themselves “diaspora” and have reclaimed their ancestral homeland, Israel.

    The Judaists’ beliefs about their identity and history are derived primarily from the Torah (Old Testament). Judaists (or “Jews”) are taught from childhood the Torah (Old Testament) and Talmud by their parents and rabbis, which books state that they are “Jews”, descendents of Middle Eastern/African Torah patriarchs like Abraham (who pimped his wife to an African pharaoh). They worship Moshe, (anglicized to Moses) as their prophet, who led the “Exodus” of “Jews” from Egypt.

    The fact is that the Judaists beliefs about their identity and history are mostly delusions because the Torah is fiction, a pure myth. This is obvious from Book 1, Page 1.

    [MORE]

    In fact, most Judaists are European Whites whose ancestors converted to Judaism in the middle ages. See Arthur Koestler, 13th tribe; also Dr. Shlomo Sand’s award-winning book “Invention of the Jewish People” reviewed on:

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-wandering-who-by-gilad-atzmon.html
    Also see: http://www.khazaria.com

    Also see: The Fallacy of Biological Judaism, By Robert Pollack, on:

    http://www.forward.com/articles/9406/

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959229.html

    Their Torah (OT) is a “forgery” (See: McCabe) and “spurious” (–Thomas Paine). That is obvious from book 1, page 1. The Earth is not 4000 years old. Cultures (unknown to the scribes) flourished much before. Written records and archeological evidence using carbon dating show man’s presence tens of thousands of years ago, probably over a 100,000 years ago. A million people cannot live in a vast desert (without water or food) in a hostile nation for 40 years—and leave no trace. The documentary hypothesis revealed 4 OT authors and a composition based on extant oral traditions that was projected back in time.

    Moshe (an Egyptian, and therefore African and black, as the black pharaoh never saw him any different) never existed. His story is copied from the older African myths of Mises (or Sargon). Exile and Exodus never happened. For eg., as stated in “Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho” (by Prof. Ze’ev Herzog of the Dept. of Archaeology, Tel Aviv University):

    “This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel….”

    See:

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm
    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/chosen-people.html
    http://www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/False_Testament_(Harpers).htm

    The African Moshe could not have parted the Red Sea, not only because it violates the laws of physics, and there was no Moses, but because there was no Red Sea to cross, since Egypt and Israel have a common land border!

    The Torah (OT) is replete with violence and barbarity. Yahweh and Moshe are mass murderers. “There is no text more barbaric than the Old Testament” (–Sam Harris). The scribes who fabricated the Torah (OT) made up stories about a supernatural criminal, whom they named Yahweh, and also made up self-serving lies that they are “God’s Chosen.”

    In summary, Judaists are deluded about their identity and history, in mistaken reliance on the insane rantings (Torah) of some backward scribes. Israel is their delusion.

  23. There were 10 official US investigations into the attack on the USS Liberty. All determined that the Israelis did not intentionally attack a US ship: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MF1967.html#8

    Further, there is no logical reason why Israel would intentionally attack and risk war with a superpower and ally. It makes zero sense.

    To the extent that this remains a hobbyhorse of Israel obsessives, their opinions can safely be ignored as marginal and irrational.

  24. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Take ypur bull rap somewhere else.

  25. KA says:

    There are 100 more who wanted to testify and prove Israeli complicity. There are thousands documents supporting Israeli deliberate involvement. There are 30 survivors who are still ready to go to court and offer eye witness accounts. There are intercepted calls from Egyptian,US and Israrlis that would show the thuggish involvement of Israrl.m
    Then there are ADL demands in 1992 not to honor the fallen ( by Congress) victims of USS Liberty in case it is misconstrued as ” antisemitism”

  26. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    They reason was to blame the Egyptians and cause the US to cause a nuclear strike in retaliation.

  27. Author: “Phil condemns the Israelis for being…an ethnically based nation state. I fully share this reader’s position that there is nothing aberrant about such an arrangement. Most Western governments in the nineteenth century, before their turn toward global democracy under American tutelage, were exactly what Phil finds obnoxious about Israel.”

    But Israel did not evolve the way other “ethnically based” nation states did in the 19th century. For example, comparing German and Italian nationalism and unification to Zionism is absurd. The vast majority of people within the state Cavour created were already Italian. The situation was similar in the German states Bismarck brought together.

    On the other hand, at the end of WWI, Jews constituted about 15% of the population of Palestine. The creation of the Zionist state required something very unusual: that an ethnic minority should oppress the majority until the minority became the majority. This the Zionists accomplished with the help of the British colonial administration and military force.

    Israeli ethnic cleansing continues to this very day, again assisted by outside forces, the US tax payer.

  28. Paul – I think the points you make and that I made in what you refer to as my “most recent diatribe” are about 80% in agreement, though I somewhat fail to understand your formulation of “correct” and “incorrect” ways to criticize Israel. To put it as succinctly as I can, the lopsided relationship with Israel has been very bad for the United States and currently threatens to involve our country in yet another tragic and avoidable war in the Middle East. I think you would agree with that and I think we would both generally agree regarding the pernicious influence of the Israel Lobby over our country.

    Our point of departure appears to be my view of ethnically based nation states, which you seem to represent as rejectionist and rooted in a desire to establish some kind of global democracy template. Not so. I believe that the United States was founded based on principles that made it a very special place and I consider myself an American nationalist, old school. Which means I reject mass immigration from the third world, bilingual anything, and support the western tradition in public education. But that does not mean that I think that American values include denying fundamental rights and liberties to many of the people who actually live here who might not be religiously or ethnographically similar to me. Nor should we either export or impose democracy or any other model of government abroad except by example. I thought I made clear in my “diatribe” that Israel is free to elect whomever it wants and do whatever it wants within its sphere of political control as long as it takes responsibility for what it is doing and does not involve the United States.

    My caution about making ethical judgments merely consisted of the observation that if one goes around moralizing, as Washington is apt to do, one must maintain the same standards everywhere, including for Israel. Re your description of the attachment of European immigrants to their home countries even after their emigration to America, I might also note that being naturalized a U.S. citizen has long involved taking an oath that includes a verbal renunciation of those ties. You might have been an Irishman yesterday but today you are an American. That is as it should be.

    Re the oddly formulated argument that I somehow endorsed regime change in South Africa and would support a similar imposed model in Israel and elsewhere, nothing could be farther from the truth. As my corpus of writings clearly demonstrates, I am an anti-interventionist. I nevertheless find it odd that anyone would argue in favor of accepting a government in Pretoria that denied even basic rights to most of the population on racial grounds just because it ran the economy better and fewer women were raped.

    It is also the first time I have ever been described as being associated with “Jewish leftists.” I admire what some of them are saying and doing but my role models are Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul.

    • Replies: @Simon in London
  29. Quercus says:
    @Samson

    I can’t add much more to comments 9 and 10 other than to add that Americans will stop asking about the Uss Liberty when there is some justice for the men who died in what was a DELIBERATE attack by the Israelis.

    It is also becoming more obvious that some Jews have a pathological hatred of the gentile world, not just Christian world, but gentile world. Your shit is getting put out there and nothing will get it back in.

  30. @Dave Pinsen

    As others have stated the investigations of the sinking of the Liberty were all whitewashed. Audio tapes have come out which clearly show that the Israeli pilots attacking the Liberty knew that it was a U.S. ship. The captain of the Liberty is the only recipient of the Medal of Honor to receive the medal in the Washington Naval Yard by the the Secretary of the Navy, not as tradition would have it by the President of the U.S. and in the White House. The medal was awarded only after U.S. officials received assurances that the Israeli government had no objections. Israel agreed to pay $7.6 million in reparations only after U.S. aid to Israel increased from $13 million in Fiscal Year 1967 to $76.8 million in Fiscal Year 1968. However, the Israelis did not actually pay the reparations until over 10 years later and only paid $6 million with no interest paid.

    The attack on the Liberty is important for two reasons. The most obvious is that the U.S. whitewashed the investigations and didn’t hold Israel responsible. Actually, the traitorous politicians rewarded Israel with larger amounts of financial aid.

    I think the other critical point of the attack was that the emerging Israeli lobby from that point on understood the power it could wield. It could attack, kill and wound hundreds of American soldiers with no political repercussions. From that point on the roles of puppet and puppet master began to switch.

  31. @Cagey Beast

    “I agree and I’d expand the list of haughty troublemakers to include the BBC, Chatham House types over in England. The US foreign policy establishment and their Brit colleagues seem to feed each other’s egos in the worst way.”

    Agreed – though the BBC did oppose the 2003 invasion of Iraq. I guess with a Democrat President they would likely have supported it, they always hated Bush even more than they loved Blair (until 2003). Certainly the BBC have been all for killing Serbs, and are as anti-Russian as the right-media.

    • Replies: @KA
  32. Priss Factor [AKA "Andrea Ostrov Letania"] says:

    It depends on the premise. If Giraldi is leftist/globalist, then he is right to criticize Israel for its overt race-ist-nationalism. But if Giraldi is a rightist, he would be hypocritical to attack Israel’s nationalism.

    But there’s another kind of rightist who sharpens his/her knife for Israel, and that would include myself.
    It’s a kind of revanchism. Because Jews have been so instrumental in undermining and destroying white unity and identity in the West, we want revenge. Anything bad for Jews and Jewish power makes us feel good. It’s about eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
  33. @Philip Giraldi

    “a government in Pretoria that denied even basic rights to most of the population on racial grounds”

    ‘Basic rights’ – you mean the right to vote? And the right to access all areas to live in/buy property? SA blacks did have the right to own property, to be represented in law courts, and other actual basic rights such as to acquire food and shelter. I don’t really see the denied rights as ‘basic’ rights – that would be food & shelter. I’m more a Utilitarian anyway though so I always have trouble grokking rights-talk. So “ran the economy better and fewer women were raped” counts for me.

  34. David says:
    @dearieme

    It’s true that Nation States are new but ethnic national polities (tribes) were real and recognized things for thousands of years. Once a “nation” was conquered by, say, Rome, they were theoretically subjected to its rule as absolutely as a slave to his master. Things went best when the Romans granted privileges to the old ethnic chiefs and govern by proxy. Failures to respect the integrity of the “nation” resulted in civil unrest often, though the responses varied over time and place. Nation States were born when nations, like individuals, began to assert a natural right to self determination, not when they first took stock of their separateness.

  35. Maj. Kong says:
    @Wally

    We give Egypt and Jordan similar tranches of cash each year.

    Not to mention that we let the Saudis nationalize the oil reserves, that only were developed with Western technology.

    • Replies: @Bert
    , @Wally
  36. Maj. Kong says:
    @Priss Factor

    Revanchism caused the two world wars, the real cause of our decline. The gangrene of cultural Marxism only sets in, after the wounds of two generations of young men wiped out. The same men who could have secured the imperial settlements, built the Trans-African Railway, etc.

    The Israelis tie down a tremendous amount of Islamic force, that would swiftly be moved against us otherwise. I rather like seeing Hamas bombed in Gaza, than in Paris.

    • Replies: @schmenz
  37. @Dave Pinsen

    I suppose it’s just a technical point, but technical points have huge consequences — ask Al Capone about tax technicalities.

    The technical point is this: Israel is not now, and certainly was not, at the time it attacked the Liberty, an “ally” of the United States.

    There is no (public) treaty of alliance between the USA and Israel; there cannot be, as long as Israel remains a nuclear weapons state that refuses to sign the NPT, and as long as Israel subscribes to no defined borders.

    Saying it does not make it so.

  38. Maj. Kong says:
    @silviosilver

    I agree that the Israelis ethnically cleansed the Arabs in 1948, but the Arab states did the same in return to their Jewish populations. That makes a reparations claim moot.

    Israel resettled the Jewish refugees, the Arab states which are full of oil wealth, did not to the same to their refugees.

    By that same standard, you must expect the US to pay reparations to its aggrieved minorities?

    Oh wait, we have, it’s called the Great Society.

    • Replies: @KA
  39. @Dave Pinsen

    The Israeli air force accidentally attacked an Israeli tank company in that war too. Fog of battle, and the imperative to work fast. War is not police work, at least not war against opponents who have you outnumbered, outgunned and surrounded on three sides (the fourth being the sea). Not a familiar situation for Americans…

  40. schmenz says:
    @Maj. Kong

    Maj. Kong says: “The Israelis tie down a tremendous amount of Islamic force, that would swiftly be moved against us otherwise. [The view of someone unaware of the realities in the Middle East, and elsewhere.] I rather like seeing Hamas bombed in Gaza, than in Paris. [Ergo, the Maj. Kong would rather see women and children obliterated in Gaza rather than in Paris. The combination of arrogance, hardheartedness and lack of a historical perspective in that single sentence leaves me somewhat breathless.]

  41. I think it is irrational to think that a global population of over 6 billion people can be segregated. People migrate, invade, and conquer throughout history. Why not let the American Empire rule Israel and South Africa? Saudi Arabia could really use a heavy dose of liberalism. I understand the distaste paleoconservatives have for liberalism. Immigration is going to happen. It needs to be controlled, regulated, and the culture of the people immigrating needs to be put under the microscope for compatibility with their host country. The Palestinians consider Jewish immigration a catastrophe. Also Europeans are not indigenous to South Africa. Americans for the most part aren’t indigenous to North America. Israel could do as it pleases if they’d give some desert, part of Jerusalem, a little water and amiable land to the Palestinians and call it a day. Hitler rebuilt Germany, so should his actions be looked at favorably? If people to the West had left him alone he would have dealt with the communist to the East according to Pat Buchanan (Scott Horton interviewed him on his book about this subject [its on youtube somewhere]).

    Also my English/Scots ancestors fought the British to the man so I don’t buy the dual loyalty apologetics.

  42. I feel flattered that Phil took the time to respond to me in such detail. I expressed my disagreement with him knowing full well that he and I are usually on the same page and that we have probably cast our votes for the same presidential candidates over the years. I was however troubled by his critical remarks about Israel as an ethnic state, since I find nothing objectionable about such an arrangement, as long as some care is shown to tolerate non-dangerous ethnic minorities. I also think that Phil and I may differ about how much of a window of opportunity for negotiations the Israelis have enjoyed in dealing with the Palestinians. I’m not sure there has been much room for making deals, unless the Israelis are willing to accept what would amount sooner or later to hostile majority Arab rule. This of course is not to justify the provocative action Netanyahu has taken by putting up more settlements on the West Bank within sight of angry Palestinians. And even less am I justifying the hysterical cover-up of every Israeli blunder and provocation by the GOP-neocon-AIPAC network. I’m just unconvinced that the Israelis have squandered multiple opportunities for making a peace that would have left everyone secure.
    On the South African question, Phil and I may differ dramatically. I found nothing unjust or immoral about the white majority government, except for the fact that it committed suicide. It is certainly important that women could walk the streets of South African cities without the likelihood of being assaulted by violent thugs, that the economy was growing, that there was an incorruptible judicial system, etc. The fact that blacks couldn’t vote means nothing to me as a non-democratic, nineteenth-century liberal. There is no “human right” for everyone to vote; and as Walter Bagehot points out in the preface to second edition of The English Constitution, extending the franchise at the risk of one’s liberty and physical security is neither just nor moral.

    • Replies: @KA
  43. Bert says:
    @Maj. Kong

    Egypt and Jordan are given money ( population is more also) to keep peace with Israel. Saudi oil is Saudi’s not your to claim.
    America has not been able to get anything in return from Israel despite all those moneies given while Egypt and Jprdan have always behaved
    like the tamed and domesticated poodle do. Bribes have paid off but Israel takes the money and comes back with more demands .

  44. KA says:
    @Simon in London

    BBC may or may oppose the war. But did it oppose it on the right grounds? Did BBC for 13 yrs prior to 2003 ever question the first gulf war? Did it ever question the sanctions? Did it ever debunk all the lies propagated by the neocons? No . It didn’t.
    If BBC wants to claim that it opposed Iran war ( a future hypothetical one) , let it start cleaning the piles of lies that have infested its intellectual sphere for last 10 yrs . Let it debunk the claims by the neocons , let it prove that it can hold the liars within and outside US accountable.
    I can also claim that I did not do this or that after tirelessly working towards that goal or allowing other to take advantage of my posit ion and influence to realize a goal which I can later safely claim-” I don’t support” . BBC has no less blood than Wolofowitz or WSJ or other neocons or CNN .

    • Replies: @Simon in London
  45. @International Jew

    Nonsense, The Israli pilots knew it was an American ship, recent flight recordings were released that confirmed the truth. Also, a large U.S. flag was flying easily seen by the planes. And, they not only bombed the ship and dropped napalm, they also shot all the life rafts. This was a premeditated attack. the reasons for it may be debated but the facts are indisputable except for those that want to hide the fact. Every surviving member of the ship stated that it was intentional, even the captain who was bribed with a Medal of Honor said when he was close to death that it was intentional.

  46. Paul Gottfried would have us believe that, for all its piracy, Israel is the same sort of thing as Britain under Palmerston or France under Napoleon III; that Netanyahu is a cold-blooded but rational right-winger like Henry Kissinger or John von Neumann. Will he address the suspicion that the Likudites are not rational, that their propaganda and self-serving nonsense are a reflection of their mental processes, that they are the same Jewish type as Gregor Gysi, as Wilhelm Reich, as Meir Kahane – that they do not think anything at all?

  47. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    @Paul Gottfried

    “that the economy was growing,”

    1971-2012 growth rate

  48. KA says:
    @paul gottfried

    ” there is no human right ” to or of ” votes”.
    Then ” Wilter Bagehot…,”
    Are we reinventing the wheel of the progression of the human history?
    We will end up where we are today again in 100 or 200 yrs if we went back to 29 th century World again. I did not get my voting rights as some kind of gift from some uber man. It was snatched and will be again.
    Do you want to stop marriage or cohabit or living together over the fear of domestic violence? Sure women did walk much safely but a lot of them walked with chains around their ankles to the white farm,palaces,houses,and white owned factories.
    They produced booming economy . Economy was booming in 18 th century US colonies but slavery was facing death .
    Was not that the reason that rebellion broke out among the slave owning ,land grabbing and competitive New England settlers – founding fathers descendent of the Pilgrim against the England who along with Mexico was on the verge of abolishing slavery?

  49. KA says:
    @Maj. Kong

    No Arabs didn’t . Israel bombed Iraqi synagogue to get Jews out . Israel has been trying to get Iranian Jews out by spreading rumors ( yellow ribbon, ) . Israel has been asking French Jews to migrate to Israel in recent years over some false claims of antisemitism.
    Israel has gone to India ,to Ethiopia cajoling and bribing them to migrate .

  50. TomB says:

    Ironically it is Israeli-partisan Harry who puts his finger on a big issue weighing heavily with all the other factors for us to not be supporting Israel where he wrote, apropos the Liberty incident, that:

    It makes zero sense.

    What Harry obviously means of course is that it makes “zero sense” to our sensibilities and values, but, manifestly, the real issue is whether it made sense to Israel’s, and thus whether we really do share her fundamental values and etc.

    As regards that question then there’s an abundance of evidence that we do not. In the first place it is nigh impossible anymore to deny Israel knew what it was doing with the Liberty. In terms of raw logic it had abundant reason to want to hide from the U.S. that it was planning on taking the Golan Heights, and then there’s the reports that it only logically wanted to hide that it was executing some captured Egyptian POW’s too. And in terms of proof it might be recalled that it was not until the NSA released transcripts of their fighter-pilots’ communications that the Israelis were claiming that none of its people including its pilots thought it was American.

    As even the law formally recognizes, Falsus in Uno, Falsus in Omnibus.

    The same as it was not until the U.S. refused to go along with the fable that Israel was first attacked in the ’67 War that Israel admitted it was the initial aggressor.

    And then the same when Israel was occupying Lebanon back in the 18980’s as it was not until the U.S. refused to go along with the fable that Israel was not arbitrarily shelling Beirut that Israel effectively admitted it had been by stopping its shelling.

    Or Israel’s salting of Southern Lebanon with over one million anti-personnel bomblets as it was withdrawing from same after its last incursion there.

    Values differ, so that bombing and using napalm on our ship and machine-gunning our people in the water and in life-boats can make sense in a different value system, just as running over a Rachel Corrie with a bulldozer can.

    Moreover, while of course its partisans such as Harry will pretend our values don’t differ that’s not what is said privately in Israel and amongst its staunch supporters.

    E.g., the very chief rabbi and indeed the entire general rabbinate of the IDF back during the last Gaza incursion not only encouraging IDF members to show “no mercy,” but saying that doing so at all was a moral/ethical sin.

    Or that (very popular) Minnesota rabbi (Bob Dylan’s!) who, again apropos of the latest Gaza business I believe, responded to an “Ask The Rabbi” question in a jewish publication by stating that:

    The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle) …

    (Emphasis added, see, e.g., http://forward.com/articles/107112/popular-rabbi-s-comments-on-treatment-of-arabs-s/#ixzz3NzopGp6i)

    We are of course constantly told that the values of the arabs and moslems in the main are not ours, and I don’t believe we should minimize that, nor deny that the truth of same ought limit us significantly in terms of supporting them. The same then goes for Israeli values too, and Israel. And so as regards a conflict between them, there is zero reason for us to support either.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @SFG
  51. geokat62 says:

    I’m not sure there has been much room for making deals, unless the Israelis are willing to accept what would amount sooner or later to hostile majority Arab rule… I’m just unconvinced that the Israelis have squandered multiple opportunities for making a peace that would have left everyone secure.

    Ever heard of the The Arab Peace Initiative, a comprehensive peace initiative first proposed in 2002 at the Beirut Summit of the Arab League by then-Crown Prince, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, and re-endorsed at the Riyadh Summit in 2007?

  52. Wally says: • Website
    @Maj. Kong

    “We give Egypt and Jordan similar tranches of cash each year.”

    No we don’t.

    Israel has far fewer people to spend OUR billions annually on.

    Israel get all kinds of huge sleazy “security” contracts from Homeland Sec. and the NSA.

    Israel has never paid back billions in US “loans”.

    Foreign companies made tons of cash from the Saudi fields before they were nationalized.

    Israel has extorted billions from Germany over the phoney and impossible ‘holocau$t’ scam. Yes, Revisionists are exposing the fraud as we speak.

    Israel has and does spy on the US with impunity.

    Now let’s talk about Israel stealing Palestinian gas fields just off the coast of Gaza.

    Now let’s talk about Israel stealing Palestinian’s water.

    The list is endless

    Israel is a threat to the world like no other. Good riddance.

  53. John says:

    A friend of mine was on that ship that day as it was attacked by Israel. If President Johnson had any balls he would of bombed Israel off the map. He should of turned Tel Aviv into a parking lot. If I was Putin I would give Iran 100 nukes and the delivery systems to launch them if Israel steps out of line. Iran hasn’t attacked another country in 200 Years.

  54. @TomB

    Israel attacked a US spy ship to keep the US from finding out they were going to take the Golan Heights? This is the best rationale you can come up with? It was obvious from the beginning of the war that Israel was going to try to take the Golan Heights, because the Syrians were shelling Israel from there. Not a big secret, and, in any case, one the US would find out about within a few days, if it didn’t find out via its spy planes or other intelligence assets.

  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    The former government of SA was indeed a White majority.

  56. Drain52 says:
    @Samson

    The USS Liberty massacre is still relevant because Israel is still lying about it, and shows every indication it would attack America again if it thought it necessary.

    If US aid to Israel is so small a sliver of its income, why is it at all concerned about getting that aid? Israel likes getting that American military aid, which it can then use for its own purposes such as killing Palestinian civilians.

    Of course we all know that Israel really isn’t annexing Palestinian territory, or building hundreds of rental units on land it stole, or flouting UN resolutions that demand it return to its pre-1967 borders, or that it has never, ever bulldozed any olive or citrus trees.

    • Replies: @Simon in London
  57. anarchyst says:

    The USS Liberty was attacked both with Israeli and US complicity. The attack was made for twofold reasons. One, was to hide evidence of an Israeli massacre of a Egyptian city (Deir Yassin)…the second reason was to provoke a (nuclear) war between the USA and Egypt.
    The ship was supposed to be destroyed with “all hands lost”. This was done with president Lyndon Johnson’s full support. When the ship did not sink, LBJ was forced to send help…initial requests for help from the Sixth fleet were ignored on orders from the White House…
    I wonder what the jews had on LBJ?

    It might interest some to know that the so-called “six day war” was actually a “PRE-EMPTIVE” strike by Israel…

    • Replies: @Harry
  58. anarchyst says:

    It might interest some to know that there are approximately 40-some members of congress with dual-citizenship with Israel. Whose interests do they represent?

    Until 1967, it was illegal for American citizens to hold citizenship in another country. At the behest of Israeli sources, this requirement was abolished by the Supreme Court…

  59. Bill says:

    The IDF didn’t sink the USS Liberty like LBJ had hoped they would, but the surviving crew members of that ship are finally finding the courage to go public with the story, now that the threats made against them have become academic. Their courage in the face of an attack by a supposed friend was exemplary, but will be forgotten soon enough.

  60. David says: • Website

    I just returned a couple of weeks ago from Palestine so have a slightly different perspective about Israel. What I saw first hand shocked me to the core. In Hebron I witnessed children being tear gassed and subjected to flash bang grenades on their way to school. In fact I helped several children through tear gas to school. This was done by Israeli Defense Forces and border police.

    There is a narrative put forth by the American media that says – “Palestinians = Terrorists”. Nothing could be further from the truth. I found the Palestinian people to be among the kindest, well educated, family oriented and peace loving individuals I’ve ever met. The way they are treated by Israel is, well, depraved. They are highly restricted in their ability move about and in fact a Palestinian I befriended who lives in Hebron had only been able to visit Jerusalem three times in his entire life. And he’s 23 years old. Jerusalem is only 30 miles away from Hebron by the way.

    I went as part of a delegation with a Christian human rights organization. As such we did not stay on the routes mostly visited by American tourists. We stayed in a refugee camp in Bethlehem as an example where we learned about the kind of daily oppression that the Palestinian people are subjected to. We visited a Christian Arab family living on land they have had title too since the Ottoman Empire and who are subjected to daily attacks by Israeli settlers adjacent to their property. We saw Israeli settlers spitting, spitting on Palestinian shop keepers and children in Hebron during one of their weekly tours of the old city. I had to go through countless metal detectors, checkpoints, turnstiles and detentions during my time in Palestine.

    The situation in Israel / Palestine is complex. In the final analysis however, there is no excuse for the Israeli government and military to treat people the way they do. It is not about security, it’s all about control and intimidation. Period.

    If people want to learn more about the Israeli / Palestinian conflict they can visit – http://thirdway.crosstherubicon.us

  61. @Chet Roman

    Any older AMERICAN who is not familiar with the USS Liberty , and considers himself a journalist must be a troll.

    Any AMERICAN who does not know the name of VICTORIA NULAND, and her role in the Ukraine is not fit to be a citizen. That qualification may include 300 million Americans? So, that leaves me and few others as the only real AMERICAN citizens.

  62. Chug Thug says:
    @silviosilver

    Israel owes the Palestinians. What about international payments to be at the United Nations or some other public international institution?

  63. BillNM says:

    It has been theorized that the Liberty being a spy ship was attacked by Israel for fear that critical information regarding their war plans might get out. The embarrassing fact was that they were unable to sink the Liberty. Had they succeeded the story would have been much simpler for them. Leaving witnesses is always messy.

    Israel owns our Congress – money talks.

  64. @International Jew

    I have the impression the initial attack on Liberty was mistaken, but as they kept on attacking it they worked out it wasn’t Egyptian. There was a lot of ‘inertia’.
    Personally I attach more blame to LBJ, who twice recalled carrier strike planes that would have defended the ship. LBJ seemed to want it to sink with all hands to avoid the truth coming out.

  65. @KA

    “Did BBC for 13 yrs prior to 2003 ever question the first gulf war? Did it ever question the sanctions? Did it ever debunk all the lies propagated by the neocons? No . It didn’t.”

    It didn’t question the first Gulf War. I recall there was some ‘suffering Iraqis’ stuff re the sanctions. Andrew Gilligan did do some lie-debunking, and was punished accordingly.

    I hate the BBC, but when it comes to Arabs they are nothing like the rabid neocons. They are pretty philo-Arabic. The BBC and Neocons do have the same hostile view on Russia/Orthodox world though, so they supported the murderous KLA against Serbia, they support the anti-Russian Ukraineans, etc. In BBC world Arabs don’t count as white (ie bad), but Slavs do.

    • Replies: @SFG
  66. @Drain52

    “The USS Liberty massacre is still relevant because Israel is still lying about it, and shows every indication it would attack America again if it thought it necessary. ”

    Anyone who doubts that Israel would attack anybody she thought necessary is an idiot, yup.

  67. @Noah172

    Thank you Noah172 for writing the truth about the evil of Zionism. June 8, 1967, a day America should never forget and as a former sailor in the United States Navy during the Vietnam War, I never will.

    The State of Israel has been recognized as a sovereign nation by most members of the United Nations since 1948. Israel brazenly describes itself as America’s ally but the truth needs to be unmasked. Let’s look to history and see if they truly deserve such a title.

    Did the IDF (“Israeli Defense Forces) fight along side the United States in these military battles?

    1. Korean War
    2. Vietnam War
    3. Invasion of Granada
    4. Invasion of Panama
    5. Persian Gulf War
    6. Bosnian War of 1993
    7. Kosovo War
    8. Afghanistan War
    9. Iraq War
    10. Libyan intervention
    11. Current war against ISIS/ISIL

    Many United States military personnel shed their blood in these historical and contemporary battles. Where was Israel in all these conflicts, you know, America’s ally, huh? Not one battalion, not one company, not one platoon, not one squad, not one soldier even as a token gesture of support from America’s highly claimed ally. Not one loss of life from the IDF army for our country. Nothing. The reality is the Israeli Defense Forces have NEVER fought alongside the U.S. armed forces in any military battle since they became a country in 1948. Not one drop of IDF blood has been shed for America.

    However the craven Zionists like their Irgun forefathers are great at slaughtering the defenseless and occupied people of Palestine, stealing their land, year after year, decade after decade. They are the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East and should not be supported but instead condemned by the American people.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  68. Harry says:
    @anarchyst

    Deir Yassin isn’t in Egypt, and the battle there happened 19 years before the attack on the USS Liberty.

    The reason the Liberty didn’t sink is because the Israeli pilot who strafed it (Yiftah Spector) had no bombs or other air-to-ground/sea ordnance. As he told the Jerusalem Post in 2003:

    “I was told on the radio that it was an Egyptian ship off the Gaza coast. Hit it. The luck of the ship was that I was armed only with light ammunition [30mm] against aircraft. If I had had a bomb it would be sitting on the bottom today like the Titanic. I promise you,” Spector said.

    • Replies: @BillNM
  69. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If Israel were like every other state, it would be an Israeli state – a state of and for all of its citizens, immigrants, ex-pats and refugees, equally. Instead, it was established and functions as a “Jewish State” – a state primarily of and for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews. It is, in short, a supremacist state.

  70. BillNM says:
    @Harry

    “I was told on the radio……….”

    He’s lying. They made several passes before attacking – and knew very well it was ours. The much smaller Egyptian ship was just the cover story.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  71. Jim says:

    Of course Israeli foreign policy is conducted for the benefit of the Israeli Jewish people. That’s not surprisong but the influence that a small country like Israel has on the foreign policy of a huge continent spanning country on the other side of the globe is something that has no precedent in world history as far as I know.

  72. BillNM says:

    “…..but the influence that a small country like Israel has on the foreign policy of a huge continent spanning country on the other side of the globe is so…….”

    No more difficult to understand than a few bankers exercising similar influence. Think 1913 the Federal Reserve Act and the 16th and 17th amendments. There are two rules – first it is always about money and – second don’t forget the first rule. No one is more easily influenced by money than a politician.

  73. Mohamed says:
    @Noah172

    @Noah172,

    You forgot the bulldozer crushing of Rachel Corrie…

    • Replies: @Harry
  74. Harry says:
    @Mohamed

    Had Rachel Corrie lived, she could have interrupted some brunches last Sunday.

  75. @BillNM

    Why would he lie? He’s old and, it’s clear from the rest of the interview, he doesn’t give a crap what anyone thinks.

    • Replies: @BillNM
  76. @PokeTheTruth

    We’ve explicitly asked Israel to stay out of our recent wars, so as not to alienate or putative Arab allies. But, thanks to Israel bombing Iraq’s nuclear reactor in the early 1980s, we didn’t face a nuclear armed Saddam during the Gulf War. As it happens, one of the pilots on the mission that blew up the reactor was the one who strafed the USS Liberty after he mistook it for an Egyptian ship.

    • Replies: @PokeTheTruth
  77. Priss Factor [AKA "Andrea Ostrov Letania"] says:

    “Revanchism caused the two world wars, the real cause of our decline.”

    Tell that to the Jews who seem to be in revanchist mode all the time. They still bitch about how their grandfather wasn’t allowed into some wasp country club and how that’s the cause for all the bad Jewish behavior in Wall Street.

  78. SFG says:
    @TomB

    Just be aware you’re citing a left-wing Jewish paper that’s criticizing the guy.

    The Israelis are closer to our values than the Palestinians, I think. That still doesn’t mean we have to support them–after all, we support all sorts of awful countries like Saudi Arabia because we need their oil.

    As for Ms. Corrie: can you pick a victim who didn’t get involved in an ethnic struggle halfway across the world? If some American idiot goes to Kashmir and gets shot by Pakistanis, does that make Pakistan anti-American?

  79. SFG says:
    @Simon in London

    I just wonder: why are we taking sides at all on any of this stuff? I mean paleocons digging Putin and the Serbs the way neocons dig Israel and the Ukraine. Who cares? Are American interests involved? That’s what we need to be asking ourselves.

    • Replies: @Bill
  80. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Patriot

    It is amazing how 99% of Americans and Israelis do not know about the U.S.S Liberty. Another case of Israelis performing a black flag operation is the Lavon Affair. A more recent case can be found if you Google “Dancing Israelis”. It is hard to see this evidence and not believe there was some role played by the Israeli government in the tragedy of 911.

    In fairness, the U.S. government probably played an even bigger role in the events on 911. Watch “911-Press for Truth” and “Terrorstorm” to see what really happened on 911.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  81. @Anonymous

    I googled “dancing Israelis” and this page on 9/11 myths came up: http://911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

  82. BillNM says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “Why would he lie?”

    To justify his actions and maintain the cover story. He may have told the truth about the armament, but who was on the other end of the radio that could have possibly had an eyeball on the Liberty at sea and determine it was Egyptian? And he was not blind – he could easily see it was American. The differences between the two ships were dramatic.

    And what reason would Israel have to waste time with a silly Egyptian vessel when the main concern was with the troops and war machines amassing on its borders as they were planning a preemptive strike?

    Just research the statements of the witnesses – it simply did not go down the way he describes it.

  83. santiano says:

    Zionism had a simple goal: a place on earth where Jews might live without fear of persecution. Herzl had no fondness for Palestine. For reasons that are familiar to most, that was where Israel ended up.

    Israel’s detractors are clear: there may be places on earth set aside for ethnic, religious and other such cultures, including places for those who are not subject to potential persecution, but there’s to be no such place for the Jews. The objection would the same were there no Palestinians.

    What part of me would like to see is for Native Americans and other racial minorities to grow to constitute approximately fifty percent of the American population utterly determined to wipe the United States off the face of the map with the approval of most of the world. Then, possessed of the means to do so, they initiate a white American holocaust.

    I’ll be the first to condemn the survivors for their racism and injustice when they seek a place on earth where they might live in peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @annamaria
  84. santiano, we’ve all seen those support-Israel-or-you’re-evil shaming tactics a million times before. Yawn. The criticisms made here are legitimate. Deal with it.

  85. George says:
    @Samson

    Allies, my foot. Trojan horse is more like it. Zionists and Jewish liberalism have all but destroyed this country. Shades of the Protocols. As Henry Ford noted, whatever their true origin, they fit with what is going on.

  86. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @santiano

    I’m sure you would like to see that, you vicious kike. My fellow white Americans, this vile jew has unwittingly done us the favor of confessing that he wants to exterminate us. He says what the other jews around us are thinking: let’s holocaust American whites to teach them a lesson. The plan he lays out for his fantasy white american holocaust (flood the country with minorities, arm them, and then join the world in celebrating the holocaust of American whites they commit) is already underway in reality.

    It is our duty to protect our families and our land. Yes, even from the falsely sacralized modern jew. We must resist now. If you love your family, you will fight the jew.

  87. Bill says:
    @Samson

    Seriously, when will Americans stop crying like toddlers about an obscure incident/accident that happened almost five decades ago?

    Five minutes after YKW stop bleating about how mean the Cossacks were to Tevye.

    Just recently, US consulate staff, believing they’re entitled to do whatever they feel like doing as if it’s their own damn country, infiltrated with no permission by the IDF a Jewish village (Adei Ad) to investigate false allegations by “””Palestinians””” about uprooted olive trees. Have they apologized for their impudence?

    I hereby accuse you of infiltration for the purposes of investigation! How do you plead?

  88. Bill says:
    @SFG

    Are American interests involved when Vicky Kagan uses the American government to stage a coup on the doorstep of a nuclear-armed power (also the largest oil exporter in the world) for the purpose of recruiting the couped country into an alliance against said nuclear power?

    I dunno. That’s a tough one. Offhand, it sure seems like the kind of thing which might affect US interests in some way. But, I guess you and Vicky know better.

  89. @Dave Pinsen

    Your red herring does not change the fact that Israel has never fought alongside the U.S. in any military conflict.

    Israel always has some pathetic excuse to justify there lack of armed support for the American military. Their political lobbyists who bribe Washington are great at talking up war (e.g., Iran) to get the United States to do the heavy lifting but when it comes to a real fight they back down unless they have overwhelming superiority on the battlefield.

    Israel destroyed the Iraqi Osiraq light water reactor in 1981 (Operation Opera) with Iran’s help nine months AFTER Iran bombed it during the Iraq-Iran war which resulted in little damage. The French designed reactor did not have the capabilities to create a nuclear fission device (see: http://users.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/publications/OSIRAK%282%29 ). This act of war did not deter Iraq’s nuclear weapons program but only accelerated it (see: http://972mag.com/the-myth-of-the-osirak-bombing-and-the-march-to-iran/36911/ ).

    As far as the “mistake” by the Israeli pilot when he bombed the U.S.S. Liberty is nothing more than a blatant lie. The Egyptian ship El Quseir initially claimed by Israel to be the attacked vessel cannot even remotely be confused with the U.S.S. Liberty which was in international waters on that bright and sunny Thursday afternoon.

    The El Quseir was an Egyptian freighter at 275 feet bow to stern with a displacement of 2,750 tons. The Liberty was 455 feet long and displacement at 10,680 tons
    (see: http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/arguments/american/elquseir.html). The Liberty clearly dwarfs the profile of the El Quseir and could not be mistaken even from the pilots of the Israeli aircraft who were flying at attack altitude. The Liberty was painted battleship gray in color with large hull numbers (GTR5) painted in white. Israeli planes observed the Liberty three times and could not have mistaken that it was in fact, an American vessel. Israel knew it was our ship and they attacked it anyways, unprovoked.

    That’s right Henry, your beloved Zionist State of Israel are murders just like their Irgun forefathers who murdered and continue to murder Palestinians today.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  90. @PokeTheTruth

    It’s a red herring that the US specifically asked Israel to not join in the Gulf War, even after it had been attacked by Iraq? That’s nonsense.

    And I’m still waiting for a cogent rationale for why Israel would deliberately attack an American ship. There is none, because it wasn’t deliberate.

    As for the Irgun killing Palestinians, the US Cavalry killed Indians too. Doesn’t make them murderers. In war, people get killed. The Palestinians sided with the Nazis during World War II, the Soviets during the Cold War, the coup plotters in Russia during the abortive communist coup, and Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War. They bet on the losing side every time. They’re lucky Israel lets any of them live west of the Jordan river. Israel should have expelled them all in 1967, like the victors in World War II expelled ethnic Germans from eastern Europe.

    • Replies: @PokeTheTruth
  91. Sam J. says:

    “In my view it is not so much the Israeli nation as the global missionaries in the US that needs to be healed, from insufferable arrogance.”

    So true. Yet this will never happen as the people of the US don’t run the country.

    Has there ever been any country or group of people who have had a long relationship with the Jews that did not end in tragedy for them? I can’t think of any. Even for the Jews themselves. Maybe there is some but I don’t know about them.

    The Jews are a tribe of psychopaths. Maybe not all and probably not even the majority but a lot. Their religion is based on the Talmud that says all people other than Jews are not human, all their wealth belongs to the Jews and all of them should serve the Jews. This is classical psychopathic thinking. It doesn’t take a great deal of smarts to determine a people who have been kicked out of every country they’ve ever settled in and have a psychopathic religion are themselves psychopaths.

    The only sure fire method of dealing with psychopaths that psychologists have come up with to stop them tormenting you is to get them away from you and have no contact with them.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  92. @Sam J.

    Their religion is based on the Talmud

    No, the readings that are done every week in every synagogue are from the Jewish bible, or what Christians call the old testament. If you go to a Bar Mitzvah, held in a synagogue, that’s the book you’ll see in the pews. 99.9% of non-orthodox Jews have never read one page of the Talmud, and most orthodox Jews probably haven’t read any of it either.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  93. @Dave Pinsen

    You continue to dance around the fact that Israel has never stood alongside United States military forces in any armed conflict, never.

    Asking to provide a reason why a murder was committed doesn’t detract from the killing and it doesn’t lessen the heinous crimes committed by the Zionist cravens. To use the flimsy, farcical excuse the IDF pilots could not determine the difference between a small ship nearly half the size of the Liberty as well as the flag it was flying in broad daylight cannot be accepted by any measure of common sense. Israel deliberately attacked the U.S.S. Liberty killing 34 American sailors and Marines, wounded over 170 of the crew and nearly sank the ship. In addition lifeboats in the water were machine gunned by Israeli warplanes which in itself is a war crime by international standards of justice.

    Neither can you mollify the murders of Palestinian natives as well as British soldiers committed by the Irgun terrorists during Jewish immigration into Palestine by comparing it to some other historical event that was equally as criminal in the example you provided. You suggest that in war people get killed but there was no “war” during the immigration because there was no State of Israel, only a mob of murdering Zionist thugs who have no regard for the lives of other people.

    Israel continues to this day to illegally occupy and steal Palestinian land, murder Palestinian men, women and children with impunity, deny them their basic human rights to engage in commerce and to speak out and defend themselves against the perversion of Zionism. Only a delusional psychopath could support such evil.

  94. annamaria says:
    @santiano

    “and so liberal Zionists are coming to the realization that the only way Israel can survive as a Jewish state in the long run is by suppressing the political and national rights of the majority of people living within the borders it craves. It can be, as they say, Jewish or democratic, but not both.”
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/09/the-delegitimization-of-israel/

  95. Sam J. says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “…Their religion is based on the Talmud

    No, the readings that are done every week in every synagogue are from the Jewish bible…”

    I don’t believe a damn word you say and I believe White people should screw the Jews in every way possible that we can for the next 2000 years. I don’t believe that you deserve the to be treated the way Whites call fairness. I believe we should at all time work to the utmost to be unfair to the Jews. I see this as nothing but the “do unto you” return that you have “done unto us”. The walls you built around Israel to keep others out…I believe we should finish them and use them to keep you in.

    If you’re not psychopaths you act so alike them that the difference is academic. You should in all cases be treated as psychopaths. No one with any historical knowledge of the behavior of the Jews would treat anything they said as being anything other than a lie or in some way designed to deceive.

    Has there ever been any country or group of people who have had a long relationship with the Jews that did not end in tragedy for them? I can’t think of any. Even for the Jews themselves. Maybe there is some but I don’t know about them.

    JESUS CHRIST, speaking to the Jews in the Gospel of St. John, 8:44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. – then answered the Jews — ” (which makes it clear that Christ was addressing the Jews.)

  96. iffen says:

    “much better job at maintaining a rape-free, economically productive country”

    You sir, are a fycj====ing idiot.

  97. I agree with the central point of this article, that there is nothing wrong in principle with the idea of nation states as homelands for a particular people. (It’s too bad that most Jews can’t endorse that view for people other than themselves)

    the Christian Zionists who serve the GOP and whose fantasies are nurtured by the Murdoch media, want to view Israel as being “like us.”

    But I take issue with claim that pro-Jewish support in the US comes mostly from “Christian Zionists”. There are a lot of rabidly pro-Jewish and Pro-Israel people in America who are neither Jewish nor even Christian. Walter Russell Mead is nominally a Christian but is as consistently indifferent to atrocities committed against Christians as he is agitated by (the much smaller number of) atrocities committed against Jews.

    The zealously pro-Jewish and pro-Israel people seem to be motivated by a belief that Jews are not like other people, that they’re much better than other people, that Jews are Promethean figures who bring knowledge and the wonders of science to the ignorant masses of non-Jews. It’s a worship of science (what Hayek called scientism) which has merged with the belief that one particular ethnic group are the “high priests of science”.

    Historically and scientifically this belief is nonsense. While the (European) Jews are greatly overrepresented in scientific achievement relative to their population, the same is true of the English and Germans, among others. Whatever the cultural and genetic process which led to Europeans becoming the most creative and intelligent people in world history, it carried European Jews along with it.

  98. It is our duty to protect our families and our land. Yes, even from the falsely sacralized modern jew. We must resist now. If you love your family, you will fight the jew.

    You’ll find it a lot more productive to demolish the arguments of the people who have “falsely sacralized” the Jews.

  99. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Why do American Jews regard the U.S.-Israeli relationship as “unassailable”, in the same way as they regard their take on the Holocaust as unchallengeable?

    Israel is a maverick state, run by a racist and nationalist government with socialist leanings (yes, a Nazi government). America has no business allowing its foreign policy to be controlled by that renegade state.

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