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The USS Liberty Wins One!
The American Legion finally calls for a congressional inquiry
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Rescue efforts the day after the USS liberty was attacked by Israeli forces.

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On June 8th 1967 the United States Navy intelligence ship the U.S.S. Liberty was attacked in international waters by aircraft and vessels belonging to Israel. Thirty-four sailors, Marines and civilians were killed in the attack. The deliberate Israeli air and sea onslaught sought to sink the clearly identified intelligence gathering ship and kill all its crew. It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time. In addition to the death toll, 171 more of the crew were wounded in the two-hour assault, which was clearly intended to destroy the intelligence gathering vessel operating in international waters collecting information on the ongoing fighting between Israel and its Arab neighbors. The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with torpedo boats from the sea. When one Israeli pilot hesitated, refusing to attack what was clearly an American ship, he was instructed to proceed anyway.

Most Americans are completely unaware that a United States naval vessel was once deliberately targeted and nearly sunk by America’s “greatest friend and ally” Israel. The attack was followed by a comprehensive cover-up that demonstrated clearly that at least one president of the United States even back nearly fifty years ago valued his relationship with the state of Israel above his loyalty to his own country.

The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson, who declared that he would rather see the ship go to the bottom of the sea than embarrass his good friend Israel. Ironically, the first ship to reach the foundering Liberty and offer assistance was from the Soviet Union, an offer that was declined.

The incredible courage and determination of the surviving crew was the only thing that kept the Liberty from sinking. The ship’s commanding officer Captain William McGonagle was awarded a Congressional Medal of Honor for his heroic role in keeping the ship afloat, though President Lyndon Baines Johnson broke with tradition and refused to hold the medal ceremony in the White House, also declining to award it personally, delegating that task to the Secretary of the Navy in a closed to the public presentation made at the Washington Navy Yard. The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement with hostile forces in the history of the United States Navy.

The cover-up of the attack began immediately. The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident, as were the Naval dockyard workers in Malta, and even the men of the U.S.S. Davis, which had assisted the badly damaged Liberty to port were ordered to be silent. A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry ordered by Admiral John McCain interviewed only a few crewmen and did not seek to determine what had actually happened, instead, acting under orders from Washington, it moved quickly to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. The inquiry’s senior legal counsel Captain Ward Boston, who subsequently declared the attack to be a “deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew,” also revealed that Admiral Isaac Kidd, who presided over the inquiry, had told him that “President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him [Kidd] to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised.

Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence. The documents relating to the Liberty incident from the White House perspective of McNamara and Johnson, if they have not been destroyed, have never been released to the public in spite of the 50 years that have passed since the attack took place.

In retrospect, one might well have expected little better from the likes of Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara and either Admiral John McCain or his son, but the cover-up that has endured for fifty years involving the national media as well as politicians from both parties is perhaps even more disgraceful because it has established the principle that even when Israel targets and kills American military personnel it will never ever be held accountable. Such is the power of the Israel Lobby in the United States.

Even if one is not exactly surprised by the behavior of Washington’s own apparatchiks there has been one constituency that has been steadfast in its support of the U.S.S. Liberty and its surviving crew and that is America’s veterans. Or at least that has been true with one major exception, consisting of the largest veterans’ organization, the American Legion. The second largest veterans’ group the Veterans of Foreign War (VFW) has long demanded a proper investigation into what happened to the Liberty as have also the Military Order of the Purple Heart, Disabled Veterans of America, and the Retired Officers Association, but the Legion has long been actually hostile to any attempts to establish accountability for the Liberty survivors.

The Legion’s history of opposition to any examination of what happened to the U.S.S. Liberty is interesting in that it demonstrates how one or two individuals can work insidiously within a large organization to prevent the endorsement of policies overwhelmingly favored by most of its members. The American Legion did, in fact, decry the Israeli attack on the Liberty shortly after it occurred. In August 1967, after the conclusion of the flawed Admiral John McCain directed inquiry, the American Legion adopted Resolution 508 declaring that the published report “fails to provide the American public with a satisfactory answer as to the reason for the attack.” It asserted that “The American Legion denounces and condemns Israel’s irresponsible attack” and demanded “a complete and thorough investigation of the incident.” Immediately after the passage of the resolution there were complaints and pressure coming from Jewish groups and individuals, which is why the resolution was unfortunately never acted upon at a time when it might have had some impact on a congress that was not yet completely Israeli occupied territory. The 1967 resolution was rescinded by the Legion’s National Executive Committee in 1984.

There followed more than thirty years of futility as Liberty survivors and veterans groups sought to reintroduce their demand for a proper inquiry as an active American Legion resolution, but the group’s National Executive exploited a number of stratagems to block every attempt to introduce a new resolution, including rejecting proposals in committee, changing convention rules and physically confronting and expelling those who objected. Indeed, the Legion’s executive did its best to drop the U.S.S. Liberty story down a memory hole. An article written by James Ennes, an officer wounded in the attack, was commissioned for publication in the Legion magazine but was pulled at the last minute because it was “too controversial.”

Efforts by the Legion’s Michigan Department in 2012 to introduce a new resolution resulted in some heated exchanges with senior Legion officials who clearly were the driving force on blocking any action relating to the Liberty. The Legion’s Judge Advocate General Phil Onderdonk confronted the Michigan delegate Ted Arens and angrily informed him that “Your resolution is going nowhere” before describing the Liberty survivors as “anti-Semites.” He also said that “The ship should never have been there. It was a spy ship.” Onderdonk was true to his word about the resolution going nowhere. He reportedly personally removed Arens’ name from the foreign affairs committee agenda to block him from either speaking or presenting his resolution.

Onderdonk’s name pops up regularly in the reminiscences of those who have been advocating for a new Liberty resolution. Indeed, he appears to have been the Legion point-man for dealing with the U.S.S. Liberty inquiries. He is a lawyer from Indiana who served as a “contracting officer” during the Vietnam War. Onderdonk was obviously badly informed regarding the facts in the case as the Liberty was in international waters and clearly marked as an American vessel. And if it was a spy ship, that spying was being done under orders from and to benefit the United States government. And, of course, the claim of anti-Semitism is as ever the last refuge of a scoundrel who has nothing better to say, particularly if one is allegedly representing a patriotic organization and is discussing a surprise attack by a foreign government in which 34 American sailors, Marines and civilians were killed.

I should also note that Onderdonk has been the Legion Judge Advocate General since 1983, shortly before the original Liberty resolution by the Legion was rescinded. If past interaction with Liberty survivors is anything to go by, it can be assumed that he will do everything in his power to block any recognition for the ship and its crew. He is, unfortunately, still the Legion Judge Advocate General and it is at least somewhat ironic that a Religious Liberty Award has been named in his honor and recently presented to Senator Ted Cruz.

Also in 2012, two Liberty survivors were turned away from the annual convention where they had expected to man a booth for the Liberty Veterans Association, which they had paid for. They were forcibly ejected from the convention hall and the Legion’s conference coordinator Dick Holmes turned on Arens and told him “I am sick of you bastards and am going to throw you out on your ass.” In 2013, Liberty survivors’ application for a booth was similarly rejected without any reason being offered. In the following year, the Legion reached out to the VFW and tried to convince it to ban the Liberty survivors from its own gatherings. The VFW rejected the appeal.

So the attempt of the U.S.S. Liberty survivors and their supporters to get the American Legion on board for an inquiry seemed doomed to fail – until this year, the 50th anniversary of the attack. A new resolution was adopted in March by Post 40 in Seattle Washington and was later passed unanimously at the State of Washington’s own American Legion convention, thus placing it on the agenda of the national convention. It was then endorsed by the Iowa delegation, which introduced it to the Foreign Relations subcommittee. Gunnery Sergeant Bryce Lockwood, who received a Silver Star for gallantry during the Israeli attack, worked the August 17-24 national convention in Reno and performed heroically for a second time on behalf of his shipmates, shepherding the draft resolution through in spite of resistance from the American Legion Executive and Foreign Relations subcommittee chair William Flanagan.

One of the participants in the process described how the critical vote came at the National Security Committee level, which was where previous draft resolutions had been derailed. The National Executive had recommended against the resolution and there was considerable opposition from the leadership on the Foreign Relations subcommittee, but the rank-and-file on Foreign Relations did not back down and were successful in a 27-11 vote. The Security Committee then passed it on an overwhelmingly favorable voice vote, with Gunny Lockwood working hard from the sidelines on both committees as well as on the convention floor. When the resolution finally was presented to the full membership it easily passed on another voice vote, revealing that there was strong support from the Legion membership.

Resolution 40 begins by making the case for the Liberty in 11 “Whereas” paragraphs. It then states: “RESOLVED, By The American Legion in National Convention assembled in Reno, Nevada, August 22, 23, 24, 2017, that The American Legion calls upon the 115th United States Congress to publicly, impartially, and thoroughly investigate the attack on the USS Liberty and its aftermath and to commence its investigation before the end of 2017, the 50th anniversary year of the attack.”

Whether Congress can be induced to do the right thing by the Liberty remains to be seen, but the adoption of the resolution was a major victory brought about by a confluence of factors as well as a lot of hard work on the part of the Liberty survivors and their supporters. And certainly, it is no time to relax as the Israel Lobby never sleeps, never gives up. The resolution is posted on the American Legion website but one should assume that there will still be some pushback against actually doing anything about the resolution being exerted by senior officials within the American Legion bureaucracy. Israel meanwhile will certainly use all the resources that it has at hand, and they are considerable, to make sure that Congress never looks into the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in any capacity.

We Americans who care for the Liberty and are concerned by the 50 years of lies, cover-up and general obfuscation regarding it can do our bit by calling or writing our members of Congress to remind them that all major veterans groups now are expecting action. We should also tell them that the investigation into what happened on that day is way past due. Sometimes even Senators and Representatives listen.

 
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  1. MarkinPNW says:

    The American Legion recruited me a few years ago, and I was a member for a year or two, but I let my membership lapse because they seemed a little too neo-connish. With this latest news, maybe I’ll go ahead and rejoin.

  2. wayfarer says:

    question: Why is Israel the world’s most privileged child?
    answer: Who knows, maybe they’ve sold their soul in return for extraordinary privileges.

    question: How many people died in wars, during the 20th century?
    answer: A rough estimate is about 123,000,000 people.
    source: https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-in-all-the-wars-in-the-20th-century
    source: http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2006/05/dictatorships_d.html

    question: How many holocaust memorials/museums are there in the world?
    answer: Too many for the average person to spend time counting.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums

    question: How much tax-exempt cash did one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) make in 2016?
    answer: $151,826,695.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    question: How much did American taxpayers have to give one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) in 2017?
    answer: $56,999,500.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Lot
    , @bjondo
  3. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson…

    Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11.

    As for “the power of the Israel Lobby,” the case of the attempted sinking of the Liberty proves nothing. The assumption that the attack was instigated by Israel remains to be demonstrated. What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US? Then it would be a case analogous to the putative role of Israelis in 9/11, as agents of the US Government, doing the dirty work of the war criminals in the US government. In that case, LBJ, in covering for Israel, was covering his own arse.

    Whether Congress can be induced to do the right thing by the Liberty remains to be seen…

    Forget it. Nothing of the kind will be seen.

  4. chris says:

    That’s great news, Phil !

    Lets see who and how they’re going to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes again. There certainly won’t be a lack of volunteers to try to block any investigation; after all that’s what they’ve all been groomed for, but it will be interesting to watch. AIPAC is probably right now meeting with Graham, Cruz, and Rubio to pick a volunteer for their mission of treason – it will be their finest hour !

    • Replies: @JGarbo
  5. wayfarer says:

    Issuing a correction to the previous post.

    question: Why is Israel the world’s most privileged child?
    answer: It seems to be more than simply having too much money, quite possibly the self-serving child has traded its eternal soul for so many temporal carnal privileges.

    • Replies: @deltajent
  6. USS Liberty survivor Bryce Lockwood meets with President Trump:

    President Trump, Let Me Tell You About the Attack on the USS Liberty

    https://usslibertyveteransblog.com/president-trump-let-me-tell-you-about-the-attack-on-the-uss-liberty/

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  7. @AmericaFirstNow

    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up on Memorial Day 2012:

  8. @AmericaFirstNow

    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up & Media Accomplices:

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  9. Additional links about USS Liberty attack/cover-up at following Calguns.net URL:

    June 8th, 1967 – Remember the USS Liberty! – 50 year aniversary:

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1342836

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  10. Realist says:

    What are the chances that the US congress rules against Israel…..zero.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  11. Lot says:

    the Israel Lobby never sleeps, never gives up.

    And Unz’s Putinist/Muslimist stooge crew cannot think of anything else!

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Wally
    , @A guy
  12. @AmericaFirstNow

    USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney’s C-SPAN viewer call for journalist Eric Margolis and his response:

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  13. @AmericaFirstNow

    Following is the article which USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney mentioned to Eric Margolis:

    The USS Liberty: America’s Most Shameful Secret
    :

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/05/eric-margolis/the-uss-liberty-americas-most-shameful-secret/

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  14. It’s not the first time the American Legion has concealed history:

    “In 1933, the conspirators planned to recruit 500,000 military veterans from the First World War through various American Legion branches. They even pledged $3 million to buy weapons for their half-million man army so the troops could capture and hold the American capital. Once the seat of power was theirs, the plotters would install an ultra-nationalist and business-friendly regime modelled after Mussolini’s Italy”

    @ http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/02/25/the-business-plot-did-american-billionaires-plan-a-fascist-coup/

    I wonder how many of today’s legion members are aware of Smedley Butler and his undoing a fascist coup plot to overthrow the USA’s constitutional government. My guess would be not many.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alden
    , @Alden
    , @Anon
    , @Wade
  15. @CanSpeccy

    Even though the Israelis seemed to have known about the coming 9/11 attacks as conveyed in the following Scottish Sunday Herald article they did not carry out the attacks (Arabs did because of hatred for US support for Israel):


    Five Israelis Were Seen Filming
    As Jet Liners Ploughed Into
    The Twin Towers
    On September 11, 2001
    Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed
    the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned
    a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
    By Neil Mackay
    The Sunday Herald – UK
    11-2-3

    http://rense.com/general44/those.htm

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    , @Sparkon
    , @Lot
  16. I’m one of those interested in the Liberty affair.
    In my opinion we now know exactly what happened, McNamara wanted to nuke Cairo, in any case targets in Egypt, a Russian attack on the Liberty was to be the excuse.
    Israel’s task was to sink the Liberty with anyone on board, so that there were no witnesses.
    Israel made a mess of it, especially the rockets constructed to home in on the Liberty’s antennae were a disaster, nobody had foreseen that they would fly towards the powerful Israeli jamming stations, their signal was far stronger.
    It of of course would be great if a congressional investigation would confirm all this, but it is an illusion.

    By now there is no doubt whatsoever that FDR deliberately provoked Pearl Harbour.
    But in 1946, when the congressional investigation was held, it was not so clear.
    So the investigation led to nothing, the democrats saw no deliberate provocation, the republicans did see.

    Government investigations into political hot items of course never lead to the truth.
    Governments do not expose their own crimes.
    In the Liberty case, bot the USA government, and Israel, are clearly implicated.

    Warren wrote an admirable report on the murder of Kennedy, admirable here with the meaning that indeed Lee Harvy Oswald was a lone murderer.
    White Wash tore the Warren Report to shreds.

  17. Erebus says:
    @CanSpeccy

    What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US?

    Not sure I’d use the word “instigated”, but I’ve long thought it very likely that the US & IL (likely IL-firsters on both sides) had cooked up a Gulf of Tonkin-ish scheme that would qualify as a casus belli for the US to enter the war. The scheme went bad when the damn boat stayed afloat, with survivors. It seems to be the most sensible explanation for the Israelis’ apparent determination, Johnson/McNamara’s recall, and the ultra-rigorous cover-up.

    Forget it.

    They’ll find for “Mistaken Identity”, again. “No evidence” of any scheme, as if this kind of a deal would be noted in the counter-signed, stamped minutes of an official meeting.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @RonaldB
  18. MEexpert says:

    Dr. Giraldi.

    Why was the help from the Russian ship refused?

    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
  19. @AmericaFirstNow

    Israeli Spying and 9/11:
    Carl Cameron’s Spiked FOX News Story
    :

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/israeli_spyring_fox.html

    Look following article for who pressured to have that Carl Cameron Fox News series about Israeli spying spiked:

    JINSA Behind Drive To
    Cover-Up Israeli Spy Scandal:

    http://rense.com/general18/JINSA.htm

    Same JINSA Israel 1st neocons who pushed US into Iraq for Israel:

    http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020910_fisk.html

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  20. n230099 says:

    Israel describing the Liberty Captain: “A man’s got to know his limitations”**

    **Harry Callahan

  21. Camillus4AD says: • Website

    Not this old saw again. This seems to be the Israel haters’ go to conspiracy.

  22. LondonBob says:

    One of the biggest factors in the stonewalling around the USS Liberty was CIA counterintelligence chief Angleton, who also served as Israeli desk officer.

    So writes Jeff Morley who will tell the story of Angleton’s role in the Liberty incident in his forthcoming book, The Ghost; The Secret Life of CIA Spymaster James Jesus Angleton, which will be published in October 2017. Be interesting to see how much new information he has unearthed, at least he should be able to tie together elements not fully packaged together before.

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  23. @MEexpert

    Dunno but there was a cold war going on at the time – possibly because they didn’t want the Russians to get a good look at all the electronic interception gear on board!

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
  24. Here’s the sleaze ball who ordered the USS Liberty anti-rescue effort and the cover up:

    http://5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    Our First Jewish President Lyndon Johnson

    Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffman’s, apparently migrated to Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.

    According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish.

    These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines. Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin. John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

    Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman, who married Joseph Baines and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines, Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.

  25. @LondonBob

    Angelton mentioned in following BBC ‘Dead in the Water’ documentary as well:

    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
  26. From the official USS Liberty survivor website:

    On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

    The Attack

    After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

    The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.

    The Cover Up

    Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

  27. iffen says:

    Leaving my politics aside, am I the only one who sees the absurdity and farcical reasoning involved in demanding a Congressional “investigation” into the Liberty incident? Maybe it will put them in the mood and they could go on a run: another Kennedy “investigation,” better still, another 9/11 “investigation.” I know that I speak for many millions of Americans when I say that there is no more impartial, wise and truth-seeking body than the American Congress.

    • Disagree: ChuckOrloski
  28. @AmericaFirstNow

    Can see fmr CIA director Richard Helms interviewed in that BBC ‘Dead in the Water’ documentary as the following Navy Times/Marine Times article included Captain Ward Boston’s interview which helped to blow the lid off of the USS Liberty cover-up:


    Israel Attack On USS Liberty
    “No Accident” Says Helms
    :

    http://www.ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ul-navytimes.html

    Following is an article about Captain Boston which appeared in the San Diego Union Tribune:

    Ex-officer alleges cover-up in probe of spy ship attack
    :

    http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/20040217-9999-1n17liberty.html

    Following is the declaration by Captain Boston:

    http://www.ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ul-boston.html

    Can see James Bamford read Captain Boston’s declaration in following State Department USS Liberty panel discussion (can see how the Jewish State Department historian Marc Susser cut off USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney in the Q & A near the end):

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?179892-1/1967-arabisraeli-war-uss-liberty

    Can also see David Satterfield speak there as he is mentioned in following article as well with the AIPAC espionage case as Trump has just named him to a senior diplomatic position for the Mideast:

    https://israelpalestinenews.org/satterfield-leaked-classified-info-aipac-named-highest-diplomatic-position-middle-east/

  29. The attack on the USS LIBERTY and the attack on 911 just proves the power that the Zionists have over the U.S. government and have had for over 100 years and congress may as well be called the lower house of the Knesset.

    • Agree: Rurik
  30. @Realist

    right? “wins one” in this case will just be lip service :)

  31. @AmericaFirstNow

    9/11 Motive & Media Betrayal:

    Bin Laden motive for 9/11 in his own words (ignored by Israel 1st US media):

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11

    Report: Bin Laden Warned U.S. Over Security of Palestine in Final Tape

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/report-bin-laden-warned-u-s-over-security-of-palestine-in-final-tape-1.360595

  32. @Camillus4AD

    Surprised this Israel firster isn’t using the tired ‘Zionist trick’ as well (see fmr Israeli minister mention it in following Youtube)!:

  33. Rurik says: • Website

    Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence.

    Thank you Mr. Giraldi for your heroic efforts to right this monstrous wrong.

    It’s one thing for men in uniform to die fighting their enemy, but another entirely when those men are betrayed by their leaders in government (having accepted their thirty shekels) and who lost their young lives in cowardly acts of Satanic treachery.

    A treachery that has continued with every year down to the day and minute that the American Legion has refused to honor their memories with the truth.

    From Ted Cruz’s speech to the Legion:

    But the American Legion, the patriots in this room and across the country, you cannot leave a man on the battlefield, and you cannot stop fighting for the country you love.

    and yet that is what Cruz and the Legion have been doing for decades.

    more from Ted Cruz’ speech:

    We were one justice away from the Supreme Court ordering ‘tear down that veterans’ memorial’. And mark my words, when they tear down the cross on veterans’ memorial in the middle of desert, we are but moments away from the next order to tear down the tombstone with the cross or Star of David lined one after the other, after the other, after the other. That’s not America. That’s not who we are

    betraying his true sympathies

    Cruz is an unapologetic Israeli firster. A messianic “Christian” Zionist. And he’s exactly the type of lying scum that would betray every single American to Moloch if that secured his personal ambitions.

    It’s past time that the lies and treason vis-a-vis the USS Liberty were exposed and the men who died are finally honored for their ultimate sacrifice.

    The attack on the USS Liberty was not a case of mistaken identity. It was a calculated act of cowardice and treachery to get American men to die fighting Israel’s enemies- with a false flag attack, something Israel is notorious for. From the Lavon affair to 9/11, these rats have been using murder and treachery to spill American blood for their Jewish supremacist agenda. And few are more guilty of complicity than the execrable Ted Cruz.

    God bless you Mr. Giraldi, for all your efforts to honor the victims of the USS Liberty and expose this national dishonor and disgrace.

  34. As a survivor of this deliberate Israeli attack on June 8, 1967, I commend and deeply appreciate Philip Giraldi’s article. I was one of the two Liberty 2012 convention participants to obtain a booth. Our purpose was to pass out literature regarding the attack and the lack of empathy from our politicians. I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building. I guess our words were too dangerous to the American Legion members.

    This incident is only one of many the Liberty crew has endured because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments. We only want justice especially for our 34 shipmates who were murdered and the attempted murder of 294 Americans serving on the Liberty which was completing an intelligence mission that day.

    Thanks again Phil and I hope your readers will take heed and help us. Ernest Gallo, President, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  35. Durruti says:
    @Joe Franklin

    Remember:

    LB Johnson was also one of the assassins of John F. Kennedy, our last Constitutional President, LB Johnson was one of the Traitors who destroyed our Republic.

    He (LB Johnson, under the orders of the Zionist Oligarchs), increased the imperialist intervention against Vietnam, and ordered the genocide that led to the death of 1 million unarmed Indonesian civilians in 1965 – among numerous other crimes.

    Our Sacred Duty as American Citizens and Patriots, is to Restore our Democratic Republic!

    There is no other road open to us, or remedy that will suffice to cure what ails us.

    Durruti – for the Anarchist Collective

  36. Rurik says: • Website
    @Ernest Gallo

    because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments.

    I hesitate sir, to even respond to your comment, out of a sincere, sacrosanct even ~ respect for your service and your efforts to see your shipmates honored.

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred, is so all-pervasive and insidious that it’s worth pointing out that not everyone who criticizes Israel or the crimes of some Jews, harbors ill will towards Jews in general. That’s an egregious blood libel, and a heinous lie intended to shield the crimes and criminals who also happen to be Jews, from justice.

    Asking why Israelis were dancing and celebrating the horrific attacks on 9/11 does not implicate your Jewish wife or cousin or friend as a criminal or terrorist. Just as pointing out the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty was an act of war, (and a war crime)- does not mean you want to push Ann Frank into an oven.

    But they create those memes deliberately so that no one is ever allowed to criticize any Jews anywhere lest it mean = you are Adolf Hitler reincarnated.

    There was, if I’m not mistaken a Jewish Israeli pilot that refused to participate in the attack on the Liberty. For that man to refuse orders, (like the Israeli ‘refuseniks’) must have required a decency and a strength of character that is rare in militaries the world over.

    How dare they imply that you are condemning that man too, just because you’re demanding our government honor your fallen shipmates.

    Those who accuse someone like you of being motivated by racism- are without honor or decency, and I just wanted to make that point.

    Kudos sir for all you have done, and God speed.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
  37. annamaria says:
    @AmericaFirstNow

    The family of traitors:
    “A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry ordered by Admiral John McCain interviewed only a few crewmen and did not seek to determine what had actually happened, instead, acting under orders from Washington, it moved quickly to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. … Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence.”
    Moreover, Senator McCain has been the most enthusiastic collaborator with the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, and before that – with the Vietnamese: http://www.basfeijen.nl/newcoldwar/ukraineneonazis.htm http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-president/

    Ironically, it seems that whenever the name of McCain pops up, the US could expect some substantial harm to the enlisted men and women: “Four days after the collision of the United States destroyer John S. McCain with an oil tanker east of Singapore, the search for 10 missing sailors continues to be painstakingly slow.”

  38. @Erebus

    While it was stuck in its Vietnam mess why would Johnson and Macnsmara be looking for an excuse to get involved in a ME war?

    • Replies: @Alden
  39. Took a while: I remember that another USS Liberty carried tanks for them.

    Should have been a wash.

  40. Wally says: • Website
    @wayfarer

    All that and the ‘holocau$t’ storyline is pure propaganda.

    And why do so many people want ’6M Jews & 5M others’ to be dead? Revisionists don’t.
    Revisionists bring good news, Jews should be elated.

    Science, rational thought, & logic simply demolish the ‘holocaust’ storyline.
    And that’s why there are Thought Crime Laws that imprison those who engage in free speech about it.
    Truth is hate to those that hate the truth.

    See the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

  41. annamaria says:
    @Lot

    You mean, the truth has an anti-Israeli bias? Guess it is hard to maintain the profitable status of the eternal victim after being caught with murder, again and again.
    The story of USSLiberty is attracting more attention to the Looby’s unstoppable attempts at using the US resources to do a slaughter in the Middle East. How many civilians died in the Middle East for Israel’s quest for power – 4 million? — among them a huge number of children. This is an important information for the Holocaust Museums to illustrate the bloody deeds of AIPAC and other Friends of Israel in Europe in the name of the mythical “promised land.”

  42. Wally says: • Website
    @Lot

    Could be because Jews make sure we think of nothing else.

    Jews:
    the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

  43. The Liberty attack is similar to so many incidents that appear in these columns.
    There are simple matters of fact to address, but those get sidetracked by many commenters.

    Did the Liberty get attacked? Yes
    Who did it? Israel
    Was the attack covered up? Yes
    Why was it covered up? That is where the issues get interesting. Many issues involving US, Israel, USSR, Egypt, and citizens of those countries.
    Who are the parties involved? Adm. John S. McCain, etc
    Added questions 1, 2, 3, etc

    By identifying specific questions, asking those questions, and answering them directly, while stripping out ideology matters, the world may get closer to the truth.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  44. Wally says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Gee, we thought you’d be out smashing statues or staging ‘neo-Nazi’ things.

    ANTIFA = vegan ISIS.

    BLM = ISIS on crack

    James Woods on driving snowflakes insane:

  45. My limited interest in the USS Liberty affair is not easily roused but PG’s is a credible voice. Without recalling previously ingested details I think my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate and because the chance at least one of the Israelis involved having significantly strong American connections and sentiments would be far from negligible.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @peterAUS
    , @Alden
  46. Sparkon says:
    @AmericaFirstNow

    ғᴏʀᴋᴇᴅ ᴛᴏɴɢᴜᴇ ᴀʟᴇʀᴛ

    This commenter AmericaFirstNow is trying to hide behind the Liberty attack to further the lies about 9/11, and Osama bin Laden.

    In some circles, such a tactic is known as a “limited hang-out,” where admission of one operation is used to conceal another.

    In this particular instance, AmericaFirstNow is attempting to gain credibility by joining the chorus of calls for a congressional inquiry into the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, while at the same time promoting the bogus story that OBL and the Astonishing Arab Airmen were responsible for 9/11.

    By many accounts, Osama bin Laden passed away due to complications from kidney failure in December 2001:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/11/20/bin-ladens-obituary-notice/

    This disinformation agent AmericaFirstNow is attempting to squat on an excellent article by Philip Giraldi to further the lies about 9/11.

    Let the reader beware.

  47. Rurik says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success

    well wiz, because if you don’t kill the whole crew, then there’d be witnesses! See? And your cowardice and murderous treachery would get exposed, (McCain’s efforts notwithstanding)

    especially as the means available and employed were inadequate

    they were adequate wiz, but you’re forgetting incompetence

    Just as with the Lavon affair or 9/11, the Israelis are notorious for incompetence, but what they know they can count on is the sniveling fealty of the media and government whores with a pension to protect…

    not to mention armies of dissemblers and liars trying to muddy the truth with pathetic little squirts of ink

    ;)

  48. @Rurik

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred

    I always find it amazing when I consider the luck the IDF had in attacking the one ship in the US Navy manned entirely by anti-Semites and Jew haters.

  49. Alden says:

    Wonderful!!

    My Dad was a VFW guy. He despised the legion as an anti worker, anti middle class tool of the oppressors. Whatever. Can’t do links on my phone but here is a Jewish article confirming that Johnson was jewish. I’m skeptical. Lots of Europeans have some jewish ancestors.

    Sometimes one can learn more about Jewish movements from their community newspapers. It seems the pro capitalist Israel right or wrong bourgeois life style New York metro suburban Jewish papers are feuding with the marksist pro black/Muslim/OCWS/ anti fa lunatic Jewish Forward.
    5 towns Jewish times

    5tjt. com April 11 2013 “Lyndon Johnson our first Jewish president. ”
    Often Jewish publications Jewish Encyclopedia etc confirm all the anti Semitic conspiracy theories.

    My personal opinion is that Johnson was pro Jewish from the 1930s on not because of his heritage but because of the standard bribe & blackmail way of the lobbyist. And Johnson had a lot to be blackmailed about.
    M

    The Johnson Nixon Humphrey affirmative action laws are based on the 4th protocol of the elders. After making a list of hundreds of attorneys and law firms involved on the anti White side of affirmative action I could see that 90 percent had obviously Jewish names.

    So I read an 1890s copy of the protocols in the forbidden books section of a university library.

    And there it was protocol 4 ” We shall see to it my brothers, that they, the goyim enemy appoint only the unfit and incompetent to government positions. Thus when the time comes, we shall conquer them easily.”

    1890s to 2017 The Jewish plan for affirmative action aka no White goyim need apply.

    Here is how to contact congress critters all over the country so they think you live in their district. Look on their website check out the district. Then look up the zip codes in the district. Just make up an address in one of those zip codes. Because their contact boxes usually don’t accept addresses and zip codes out of their districts.

    My congress critter is a Jew so I’ll contact the ever increasing Hispanic congress critters from my state. Probably black Arab and Muslim congress critters as well.

  50. Cal2 says:

    Don’t just comment—do something.

    Email American Legion National headquarters:

    https://www.legion.org/contact

    Scroll down to the heading ‘Legislative ‘ and click email

    Ask them if they support America and its veterans or if they ‘represent the interest of the foreign country of Israel.

    Do it now.

  51. Michael\\ says:

    The ongoing US national effort to cover-up the failed US & Israeli false-flag attempted sinking of the USS Liberty in 1967 reveals that the attack is not yet history for public discussion but remains an active though incomplete covert action.

    Extraordinary behaviour demands extraordinary explanations. In the 90′s I spoke to a Liberty survivor who believed informed discussion about the USS Liberty events, even among the remaining survivors, placed them at dire risk of threat or disappearance.

    I suggest that the continuing efforts to malign, misrepresent and disappear the USS Liberty story are good evidence that the official story is false (much like the 911 narrative) and was very likely cobbled together to obscure a US Israeli collaboration to create a pretext for expanding the Six Day War with a US nuclear attack against Egypt.

    The initial US carrier launched “rescue” aircraft to assist the USS Liberty were armed with nuclear weapons likely in response to information from a US submarine on location to an apparent observed “Egyptian” air attack on the Liberty.

    Likely, the astounding survival of the Liberty and its capacity to prove that it was attacked not by Egyptian but by Israeli aircraft and MTB’s prevented excusable pretext for an unwarranted nuclear strike against Egypt or its allies.

    This is the sort of narrative which would explain the entirely provocative, culpable and irresponsible behaviour of the US and Israel in the Six Day War. They were and still are allies absolutely committed to covering-up crimes and achieving military, political, economic and ethno-cultural domination of the middle east and the approaches to Russia.

    The 1967 USS Liberty event exposes that the US is still deceitfully operating in utter contravention of its Constitution, the Geneva Convention and in contempt of its citizens in regards to its conduct of war through its agencies, assigns, contractors and allies as will be evidenced in the appropriate unconstrained investigation of the attack on the USS Liberty. m\\

  52. A guy says:
    @Lot

    One comes to expect this type of crass takkiyah from an Iran firster like Giraldi . Still , half a dozen articles in the past few months alone regarding the unfortunate Liberty accident and not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut that killed twice as many. Some Patriot .Do they pay by the word at takkiyah headquarters?

    • Replies: @Uslabor
    , @iffen
    , @Wally
  53. wayfarer says:
    @Lot

    Yet “Israel” will ultimately have to pay a high price, for “winning.” The cost of which is untold damage to its divine soul and spiritual essence.

    “As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…”

  54. Uslabor says:
    @Wally

    Looks like the snowflakes got your goat, too.

    Just saying, =).

    • Replies: @Wally
  55. Uslabor says:
    @A guy

    So…..because Marines were killed in Beirut the Israelis get a pass for their treaturous betrayal.

    Iran wasn’t our ally, Israel was.

    • Agree: Talha
  56. iffen says:
    @A guy

    not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut

    Yes, but they were killed by Muslims and not dem Jews. And it was Saint Reagan (or a subordinate, depending upon whom you want to believe) that expressly forbade the military commander from taking proper security measures. It’s almost if the ghost of LBJ had prevented the military from defending itself in a military situation. But like I said it wasn’t dem Jews, except of course, in the brains of conspiracy mongers, inc.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
  57. Hrw-500 says:

    Slightly off-topic, but talk about a coincidence when I saw yesterday headline of the Drudge Report.
    http://archive.is/h3Trg Is it karma?

  58. nsa says:

    The Izzies could confess and it would make not the slightest difference: “sure we sank your crappy spy boat and knocked down your crappy skyscrapers, but it was necessary to wake you up to the muzzie threat to western civilization”……kind of like “Pearl Harbor” and “The Maine” and “Gulf of Tonkin” were necessary fictions. Sometimes it is necessary to lie for the greater good……and the Hasbarists and domestic Jooie media and Zio pundits would fire up……and within twenty four hours you would be thanking them for all their efforts in your behalf. Maybe this is pessimistic….might take only eight hours for the KnessetPersons on the Potomac to declare a national day of Remembrance for the valiant attackers of the USS Liberty…….

  59. A guy says:
    @Wally

    James Woods is a Zionist lmao !!!

    http://www.israellycool.com/2015/02/04/pro-israel-celebrity-of-the-day-james-woods/

    Do you still like him Wally ?
    Muh Codoh Muh Codoh lolol
    The holohoax never happened why won’t anyone listen to meeeeee

    • Replies: @Wally
  60. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate

    Means employed were more than adequate.
    It’s actually almost a miracle the ship stayed afloat and there were any survivors.

    Since introduction of air power history is full of examples of similar ships and less attack power being quite successful.

    Attacked: 7,725 long tons (7,849 t) (light) civilian cargo vessel
    Attackers:
    2 Mirage IIIs
    2 Mystères
    3 motor torpedo boats

    IMHO, just those torpedo boats should’ve been enough.
    Hell, just one actually.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  61. Logan says:

    I’m perfectly willing to consider this a premeditated attack by Israel to sink the American ship.

    Just don’t see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Alden
    , @Art
    , @Lot
  62. Alden says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    That’s just one reason my VFW Dad loathed the American Legion. He always said they were paid strike breakers too. Of course Dad was a lefty.

  63. Alden says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    They didn’t know much about Mussolini’s Italy did they? Mussolini was both pro worker and pro business. Mussolini did more for the Italian poor workers and widows than any Italian state or leader had done in a thousand years.

    FDR’s worker welfare friendly New Deal was based on Mussolini’s 192o ‘s programs. He also was the only prime minister who managed to get the Mafia under control. That’s why so many came to America after Mussolini’s police cracked down.

    The legion and other conservatives didn’t know much about Mussolini.

    • Agree: Che Guava
  64. Rdm says:

    Here’s a scenario.

    A stranger parked his car in front of your home in public parking space. A stranger has every right to park whatever he pleases. But you also have every right to get suspicious of the stranger’s parking behavior. If the stranger never leaves his car, in the pretext of probing your activity in your home, would you feel content with his behavior? Would you rather stay home and pretend there’s no stranger’s car or would you rather confront the stranger because you damn well know that The Stranger used to go around the town, park his car wherever he damn well please and probe all people activities?

    What’s strange is you never see those kinds of attack near California coastal waters or Hawaii or Guam. WHY? Those kinds of attacks on US only happened in waters near foreign countries.

    Since I’m your best friend, I will come and park my car in front of your house, radio-station your nightly canoodling with your wife. No one’s wrong. But sure I’m your best friend snooping your nightly sex romp. But I felt immensely insulted when you won’t let me listen to yours.

    If we make this a film, this gotta be a freaking best Keaton’s show of all time.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Alden
    , @Bill Jones
  65. Alden says:
    @Camillus4AD

    Read the book ” Attack on the USS Liberty ” by the survivors who were there and lived to tell the truth.

    What’s the explanation Jewish propaganda central poured into your empty brain?

    1 the Jews couldn’t see the numerous huge American flags?

    2 the Liberty discovered that Israel attacked Syria first?

    3 Being goyim, 2 legged animals not fully human anyway the Israelis had the right to murder the Liberty sailors because the lives of the goyim mean nothing.
    It was much of an act of war as the attack in Pearl Harbor or the German army attacking Poland 9/1 1939.

  66. Art says:
    @Ernest Gallo

    I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building.

    How horrible – good Americans against good Americans – inharmonious jarring hateful conflict – they kill our sailors and we end up fighting with each other. They get in our head and screw us over.

    That is the insidious nature of the Jews and their power games. Their tribal quest for power is our loss.

    Clearly, they deserve our condemnation. We want a measure of justice – we want a resolution of this matter – we want it to never happen again – we want our American culture back!

    Think Peace — Art

  67. Alden says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Their masters and owners, AIPAC, ADL, AJC and the government of Israel ordered them to get involved in a ME war.

    A few years later Nixon and Kissinger air lifted every tank we had in Europe to Israeli to use in the 1973 war. That was the height of the Cold War.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  68. Alden says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The Israelis would have checked for any pro American pilots and sent others.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  69. Rurik says: • Website
    @Logan

    Just don’t see a motive

    here’s the motive for the Lavon Affair per Wiki

    The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, “unspecified malcontents” or “local nationalists” with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt’s Suez Canal zone.[2]

    the motive for sinking the Liberty was clearly to bring the US into the war with Egypt on Israel’s side. IOW to get the US to fight Israel’s war.

    It’s perfectly reasonable to posit that the attack on the Marine barracks in Lebanon was a Mossad operation with the same goal in mind, to get the US to fight Israel’s enemy.

    Just as there is zero doubt at this point that the 9/11 attacks, if not perpetrated by the Mossad and CIA outright, were at the very least allowed to happen – by Israel- in order to create the necessary outrage in the American public (Pat Tillman- like) to get Americans to destroy all of Israel’s rivals and enemies in the Middle East.

    Those ‘seven countries” General Clark was talking about

    the similarities between the attack on the USS Liberty and 9/11 are terrifying, because as with both attacks, our government at the highest levels of the executive branch and military and intelligence agencies, including the entire length and breath of our MSM, were all willing to go along with the cover up.

    we know the USS Liberty was attacked deliberately with the intention to sink her with all hands. This is beyond dispute. We also know that the Israelis at the very least knew 9/11 was about to happen, and yet didn’t warn us, and allowed those passengers and people in the towers to die, because it suited their agenda for them to die.

    That we all know. It is beyond dispute. We also know that in both cases the Jewish owned and controlled media covered up both crimes.

    now we live with it

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @Lot
  70. @Ernest Gallo

    Ernest,

    During the late-1980′s, I taught an evening course at the University of Scranton Dexter Hanley college, titled “History of the Nuclear Age.”

    One day while looking through available “used” works at the university bookstore, I purchased Captain James Eness Jr.’s “Assault on the USS Liberty” for $2.00.

    Although fearful of Israeli power over the U.S. since November 22, 1963, the “Assault on the USS Liberty” came as quite a shock to me. Naiive, I wondered why the barbaric attack was not mentioned while attending undergraduate history & political science lectures at a Jesuit university.

    Academia’s betrayal made it sickenlingly easy for Israeli deception artists to make obvious historic & current event facts by no means obvious. You were honorable, militarily neat, and brave to appear at the American Legion convention and try to educate “belligerent” officers. Shame on them.

    Finally, while teaching the “History of the Nuclear Age” course at the U., I sent an (enthusiastic) complimentary letter to Captain James Ennes, Jr. In it was my description on how “Assault on the USS Liberty” was purchased (used) at a college bookstore fire sale! Rather quickly and with stoic humor, the Captain wrote me back and noted how his book managed to sink to another depth by the weapons of insouciance.

    A favor, Ernest

    Am unable to get a Google-search update on James E., and I sincerely hope his health is well. Have you any knowledge that can be shared here @ The U.R. comment department? So you know, the author Mr. Finkelstein (a self hating Jew to many) has recently written a terrific article on Captain Ennes & the USS Liberty serial murder. Thanks very much, & I trust he remains a noble “survivor” like you.

    • Replies: @Ernest Gallo
  71. Alden says:
    @Logan

    There was no downside. The navy, secretary of defense, president and the media covered it up. Israel and the US Jewish lobby were confident it would be covered up.

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
  72. peterAUS says:
    @Rdm

    You actually have a good point IMHO.

    It was a spy ship, spying on a sovereign country during war.

    That country didn’t like that spying.
    Now, this is interesting in this particular case. Slight difference in objectives at the moment? US administration wanted THIS; Israeli government wanted THAT.
    Ceasefire (THIS) vs further exploiting the victory (THAT)?
    Or, more accurately, ceasefire vs Golan?

    That country attacked the spy ship.

    Cannon fodder paid the price, as always.

    All the rest is public relation exercise by all parties involved.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  73. Art says:
    @Logan

    Just don’t see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    Israel was telling Washington one thing and doing another. The Liberty knew the truth.

    The Jew solution was – sent the USS Liberty to the bottom – kill all the sailors. That is what they tried to do – they went after the life boats.

    Welcome to Jew think. Never ever sell its darkness short.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Hmm – exactly what was the downside to date?

    p.s. NOTHING!

  74. Alden says:
    @Rdm

    Are you trying to say that Israel should be able to control the entire Mediterranean Sea and none of the other Mediterranean countries or other nations should be able to use the Mediterranean Sea?

    As I remember the Liberty was nearest to Egypt, not Israel and in international waters when attacked.

    Better check the law of the sea and learn the difference between international waters and territorial waters.

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.

    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @Miro23
  75. @Off The Street

    Oddly enough, later that month Adm John S. McCain’s son also tried to blow up and sink a US ship.

  76. Rdm says:
    @peterAUS

    All the rest is public relation exercise by all parties involved.

    You catch on quick.

    As long as all parties have some legitimacy, and an edge over some, this liberty tragedy will be the talk of the town.

  77. Lot says:
    @AmericaFirstNow

    Is Giraldi brave enough to write about how 9-11 was an Israeli plot?

    • Replies: @Art
  78. Lot says:
    @Logan

    That’s because you are not a nutcase.

    The other problem is there is no way Israel could “frame Egypt” because it makes no sense for Egypt to attack a US ship. The dumb dumb derp of the Liberty Truthers has no bottom.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Logan
  79. Lot says:
    @Rurik

    More excuses for Muslim terrorist killers. Are the endless Muslim killers who just randomly stab or run over tourists in the west, or suicide bomb the mosques of the other type of Muslims, are they all Mossad operatives too?

    • Replies: @Max Payne
    , @Max Payne
    , @Logan
  80. @Rurik

    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie about the attack. In fact, if you go to the ADL web site and google my name, you will find this to be true. I have authored a book, “Liberty Injustices– A Survivor’s Account of American Bigotry”. I have captured various incidents that have occurred to me and the crew. Read my book! So unless you have walked in my shoes and experienced the name calling and harassment, please try to understand the hurt and embarrassment as the USS Liberty is the most decorated Navy ship for a single engagement and the Navy cannot name a new ship “Liberty” because it would offend certain people. America wake up!!!

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Rurik
  81. Rdm says:
    @Alden

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.

    This kind of baseless accusation is actually more prevalent than we would have imagined.

    If I say something against America, I am anti-American.
    If I say something good about America, I am pro-American.

    But in public, I can’t be standing on both sides. I must take side. That’s where problem kicks in. Democrats can’t be Republicans on some aspects and neither can Republicans. We must take sides completely.

    I’m neither Pro-American nor Pro-Israel. I say what I see. That gives me advantage on seeing things clearly rather than being clouded by pseudo-patriotism and blind allegiance.

    On the other post in Unz by Mike Whitney, we can see why NK lately became feisty with Nuke test.

    We don’t hear the other side of the story. We are constantly fed with the fat pig’s nuke testing.

    ————–

    Just because it’s international waters does not mean you can do whatever the heck you want.

    1. I park my car in front of your house although my car is slightly closer to your neighbors. Since it’s a public parking space, I do whatever I damn well please. In fact, I anchored my car right in the same spot for days with an intention of spying your every move. It also showed how big my balls are. You damn well know my intention and I know that you don’t like my intention of spying. Would you show your grace and let me do whatever I want or you want the world to know that you also have big balls?

    2. We’re now in a public gym. There’s no specific rules how much weight one should lift or how often one can do deadlift. Since I feel like I can do whatever the heck I want, I hog all the weight plates for my deadlifts for the entire day. I’m not against the policy, but I’m sort of walking over the edge of the policy to the extent that one can arguably say “Abusing the public space”. Of course I want other gym users to know how big my assholes are.

    You might as well learn “the Art of Provocation” and becomes a victim in public eyes.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  82. @Rdm

    The lies from the Land Thieves never ends do they?
    The Liberty, of course was monitoring their war crimes in Egypt.

  83. @ChuckOrloski

    ChuckOrloski — we are all getting up in age which means there is never a dull moment. As far as I know, Jim Ennes, the author of “Assault on the Liberty” is doing well. Thank God Jim wrote his book as it brought the crew together to form the USS Liberty Veterans Association. we consider him the father of our group. The fact that Jim published his book (1979) and did not get arrested, the crew realized that the gag order to never talk about the deliberate Israeli attack was not being enforced. Question: If the Governments of Israel and U.S. indicated that the attack was accidental, why would they order the crew to never talk about the attack even to our families? Wake up America!

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  84. The “Cuckress”? They wish they could be serving in the Knesset Soon they will transfer all legislative work to Tel Aviv. I said before, no superpower in history has been so puppeteered as our nation. None….
    The cabals are at their peak, no one will reach their height any time soon

  85. Flyod says:

    Find the Irgun terrorist and LBJ accomplice Mathilda Krim…she is still alive.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  86. @iffen

    It was another case of the US having to clean up an Israeli mess. Reagan made two mistakes: 1. Going into Lebanon to start with. 2. Taking sides and using the navy to shell Druze villages.

  87. The stench of treason emanates from those who have backed Israel in this matter these last 50 years.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  88. @Ernest Gallo

    Mr. Gallo, I knew very little about the attack on the Liberty until I read articles that Phil Giraldi wrote several years ago. In 2016, several of us who “met” on this forum joined Giraldi at Arlington Cemetery to remember the men who were killed on that ship. We spoke their names and sounded a bell for each of them; they are not forgotten.

    It was an extraordinary experience to speak with the sisters and brothers of those men — they were very young men, talented and eager and patriotic, when their lives were taken so treacherously. We felt the pain and loss, up close and personal. It changes a person to put a human face on the Liberty outrage.

    I am grateful to Giraldi for continuing to spend his energies and put himself on the line to inform others of the truths he has learned, and to motivate more of us to join him and the USS Liberty Veterans Association in the struggle to find justice for the men of the Liberty.

  89. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Wtf I love the American Legion now

  90. Wade says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

  91. Wally says:
    @Lot

    But not #won.

    The world is now on to the evils of Zionism.

  92. Art says:
    @Lot

    Is Giraldi brave enough to write about how 9-11 was an Israeli plot?

    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew. All logic leads to Jews. An re-investigation is coming.

    9/11 is the ultimate deep state act – 9/11 is your nightmare – 9/11 is not going away – 9/11 is building curiosity among the middle class. There are fewer and fewer people who will defend the government’s position. More than half the people would be OK with a further investigation.

    Think Peace — Art

  93. Wally says:
    @A guy

    Another hasbarist deflection which is irrelevant to the fact, which is …. “that shitty little country” attacked a known US ship.

    Besides, our guys wouldn’t have even been in Beirut if it wasn’t because of “that shitty little country”.

    The True Cost of Parasite Israel
    Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/

    Israeli occupied territories
    ‘Join the US army, Fight for Israel

  94. Hibernian says:
    @Joe Franklin

    Somewhere along the line a representative of this matrilineal line converyted to Christianity. LBJ was no more Jewish than Goldwater.

    • Replies: @Logan
  95. Wally says: • Website
    @A guy

    Obviously you are listening to me. LOL

    But indeed, they are listening.
    That’s why 16 European countries plus “that shitty little country” now arrest people for exercising free speech about the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.
    Only lies need such oppression.

    BTW, http://www.codoh.com is booming with readers.

    Oops.

    [MORE]

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    “We reached the [Balfour] Declaration not by miracles, but through persistent propaganda, through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people. We told the responsible authorities: We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not. You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.”

    - World Zionist leader [and future 1st President of Israël] Chaim Weizmann, speech in Jerusalem, December 1919.

    • Replies: @A guy
  96. Wally says:
    @Uslabor

    No, I got yours. Obviously

  97. Hibernian says:
    @Lot

    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.

    • Replies: @Lot
  98. @Ernest Gallo

    Ernest,

    I am very cynical and distrustful about the order for the Liberty crew to “never talk about the attack.”

    Tel Aviv masters know that it is human nature to talk. For me, the Israeli “Lowerarchy” anticipated survivors to tell the ugly Liberty truth.

    This mass murder of American sailors also served as an experiment of just how open and “in-your-face” the Zionist lies could get without a general population challenge to their power.

    Please take for prime example how a goon squad put a beaten upon Christopher Bollyn while he did research on what became a book of unspeakable revelations, “Solving 9/11″? May God be with Mr. Bollyn, but had the CIA/Mossad wanted him silenced, such beating would be fatal.

    Thanks for the fascinating detail about the catalyst role undertaken by Jim Ennes, and the likelihood he is “doing well.” To this day, I keep and treasure the brief note (on spiffy J.E. letterhead) that he mailed to me.

    I try & avoid being too didactic & poetic, but what remains of “America,” perhaps one person at a time (?), has little choice but to become aware and realize that the grieving ghost of USS Liberty still sails, and now WE are the “crew…,” of course in lethal harm’s way, compliments of “the only democracy in the M.E.”

    Thank you very much!

  99. peterAUS says:

    Tried to find a particular info and failed.
    Maybe somebody knowledgeable here could help.

    What was the chain of command for the ship/mission?

    Was it Captain->up the Navy chain of command?
    or
    Captain/whoever->up to “intelligence community” chain of command?

    Or, say, who “owned” the ship for that particular mission?
    “Intelligence community” or Navy?

    Yes, I do know about detaching/attaching/secondments/subordination etc.

    My experience in similar matters (nothing juicy, don’t get excited, simple stuff) is that when a, say, infantry unit is “given” to, say, “intelligence community” for some work, the mission chain of command is: unit CO/OC->”intelligence community” person during the mission/attachment/secondment/whatever.
    Say, light infantry platoon is “given” to “intelligence community” for a particular mission.
    OC gets operational orders from “intelligence community” person/persons, NOT from his, say, company/battalion/regiment.
    Reporting does go to the usual infantry chain of command, but, often not even that.
    The unit is effectively in “black hole” for the duration of the mission as far as platoon’s company/battalion/regiment is concerned.

    I know of similar examples re Navy boats.
    In short, the boat is “given” to the “intelligence community” for the duration of the mission.
    It simply “disappears” from Navy chain of command/reporting for that period.

    So, what was that chain of command in this case?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  100. @Alden

    Well we know they didn’t succeed in finding and using that list of pilots who
    1. Hate America
    2. Couldn’t give a stuff about America
    3. Can be relied on not to notice American markings on a ship and wonder if they are really meant to attack it…. So..
    It gets me back to the question I see as critical whenever clever people are supposed to have planned an elaborate wrongdoing, namely, whether they have left it all to 13 year olds who can’t see all the things likely to go wrong.

  101. @Rdm

    A rare approach on these threads when anything touching Israel is in issue!

  102. A guy says:
    @Wally

    AI think if you only post that Codoh link one more time the elders of Zion will fess up and admit that the Holocaust never happened and pol pot was a Zionist Jew !!!!!

    Why do you post James Woods quotes , the guy is a huge Zionist lololol
    Muh Codoh muh holohoax . Even your heroes are Zionist lololol

    • Replies: @Wally
  103. @Alden

    Your first par is surely anachronistic at best.

    Your second par. wreaks of the totally implausible. Half an hour’s reading, including Wikipedia on the Yom Kippur War has found that about 8000 tons of equipment (via Portuguese and Dutch territory) was received in Israel before the war ended (though vastly more in the next two or three months). The Soviet Union was resupplying Egypt and, initially, the US was refusing to resupply Israel. The US had already pressed Israel not to exercise its usual pre-emptive attack preference and resupply was seriously debated with reference to how much it would help the US to influence Israel or the Arabs and it seems that one factor may have been the Israelis preparing to go nuclear. In short there is not the slightest evidence even in 1973 of the kind of Israel First ownership of American policy you assert for 1967.

  104. @peterAUS

    My recollection is that, nearly a year ago, it was someone with the pseudonym Vendetta who gave a coherent account on UR of the stuff up version of what happened to the USS Liberty…

  105. @peterAUS

    I invite you to outline the plan, using the means available, which would have promised the almost certain complete success which was, ex hypothesi, needed. Evidently the means available didn’t include adequate staff work did it?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  106. Miro23 says:
    @Alden

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.

    Or your psychopathic home occupier attempting (and failing) to murder the person outside in the parked car and blame it on the targeted people next door.

    The badly wounded car driver tries to tell his story but is told to shut up by the psychopath’s influential friends (who in fact ordered the car driver to park outside the house and set him up).

  107. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Not quite sure I understand the question, but, let’s try.

    Firstly, this incident is a puzzle to me.
    I do not have a conclusive opinion about it.
    A lot of angles and neither makes much sense.

    And, also, haven’t spent much time researching it, for a couple of reasons.
    The most important, my angle is always, as soon as ‘intelligence community” is involved I am sure I won’t be able to have a full picture. Ever.

    Having said that, here it is:

    Available assets , from …horror…Wikipedia.
    2 Mirage IIIs (so, one pair, leader and wingman). That means ONE attack at the time.
    2 Mystères (same)
    3 motor torpedo boats

    METT-T/commander intent, in plain language:

    Outline: use the planes to find the ship and vector the torpedo boats on her.
    Ideally, try to slow her down from air (rocket/bomb her), damage command and control systems and self defense capability (strafe/rocket the bridge and the visible cannon/machine guns).
    Not that important, really.
    ONE torpedo should be enough. Just vector the torpedo boats in.
    Three boats, 2 tubes on each, each loaded.
    The boats should be able to approach regardless of speed, zig-zagging, and self-defense fire, and launch, say 2 torpedoes. Should be enough for her. One boat.
    If launch abort/miss/misfire/whatever, launch two again (another boat).

    The grim part: swimmers and boat guns. Crew personal guns even.

    Now, even in this scenario anything could’ve happened.
    Say, Israelis were on a tight timetable, their command and control, especially coordinating Air Force and Navy wasn’t working well. Airplanes could’ve had technical difficulties, pilots could’ve made mistakes (inexperienced, tired….). The same for Israeli Navy.
    One other thing.
    Attacking sea targets from air is not easy. Demands special training. Not going into details. But, quite positive that Israeli Air Force at the time wasn’t that good at that. I mean, the main effort was in air/on land. Anyway….

    Still, personally, just don’t get this incident.

    My simple gut feeling is that was a tragedy of errors by all parties involved. Almost “perfect storm” of errors.

    I do get the coverup.

  108. @Ernest Gallo

    Ernest et al. : It is truly remarkable that you all have kept this infamous piece of our history alive for 50 years, so that those of us who were not alive then can know of it and remember it for generations to come. A day of reckoning will come for Israel and all the treasonous bastards in our government who have enabled her to the detriment of our own citizens, and many of us will line up to string them from the nearest tree, and it will be because of your sacrifices and efforts over these years.

    I am enough of an optimist to believe that we can seize our country back from the scourge of the Jewish Lobby and their many treasonous puppets in my lifetime. Until that day comes, I salute you and your fellow patriots. Your sacrifice should not be in vain, if there is ever to be any justice in this nation of ours.

  109. @Lot

    A Pyrrhic victory, at best. What follows will smack that gloating grin off your face.

  110. Alfred says:

    It might interest readers to know that this article is being trashed by Facebook.

    If you try to post the link http://www.unz.com/article/the-united-states-of-manufactured-hysteria/ to Facebook, the title and photo do not appear.

    I worked around this problem by getting a link from http://TinyUrl.com and posting that to Facebook – this worked nicely and the photo and title were displayed.

    I tested as to whether the whole of unz.com was being blacklisted by trying a link to another article. This worked with no problem.

    I can only conclude the Zionist who owns much of Facebook does not want the activities of Israel to be exposed. :)

  111. Sparkon says:
    @Flyod

    Good lead. Thank you.

    President Johnson, an apparently energetic philanderer given the number and notoriety of his sexual exploits, was in Texas until June 1 when he returned with his “friend” Mathilde Krim who remained at the White House with Johnson for the next week. When Johnson, who was absolutely dazzled by Mathilde’s blonde beauty and intelligence, was informed of the beginning of the war on the morning of June 5. The very first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Official records indicate that Mathilde passed documents from Israel directly to Johnson over the duration of the crisis. Johnson didn’t meet with his advisors, except Walt Rostow, nor any Israeli or Arab officials during the duration of the very short war, he knew exactly what was going on with the Israelis due to his intimate relationship with Mathilde Krim.

    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/spingola/100604#ref1

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  112. Max Payne says:
    @Lot

    Are you retarded?

    It’s fucking 1967…. they fooled these ignorant fucks into Vietnam… you think it’s hard to convince them with a statement like: “a bunch of A-rab dune coons attacked our ship! Nuke those bitches!”

    Really? With no access to internet or instant porn you think some American retard is going to be like “hey… wait… why would Egypt attack us?”

    Come on man……..

  113. Max Payne says:
    @Lot

    Reminds of Nazi Germany. Just need the reverse images. Right into the sea.

  114. Eagle Eye says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Re-read the following lines from the article, remembering that whatever the U.S. public was told at the time or later, the U.S. military and U.S. intelligence agencies (NSA) knew in virtually real time – through electronic surveillance and conventional humint – that Israeli planes and ships were involved in the attack.

    It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time.

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with torpedo boats from the sea.

    The Israelis, of course, would have known that the U.S. government could not be fooled. Quite possibly, Israel acted under U.S. orders.

    Again – re-read the following line, remembering that the unstated SUBJECT of this sentence is a Democratic president, LBJ, who:

    (1) probably had his predecessor assassinated; (2) was also responsible for the Gulf of Tonkin incident (false flag op to ramp up the Vietnam war) and (3) ordered the USS Pueblo incident (deliberate provocation of North Korea).

    The cover-up of the attack began immediately.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  115. @Wally

    Yeah Wally, I do keep busy but not propping up identity politics. Here’s an (off topic) work Phil might (or not) appreciate that had kept me busy, so sorry for the late reply … Wally, you’re a sorry moron

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2017/09/06/akamai-tree/

    ^

    • Replies: @Wally
  116. “Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11″. Look, a plane can´t bring down a steel building. That´s impossible ! And it´s even more imposible that 2 planes can bring down 3 steel buildings. But NANO-THERMITE can and did, it was found by scientists, one of them Dr Niels Harrit, Uni of Copenhagen. Remember the dancing Israeli “art students” “who were there to document the event ???” Did OBL have access to nano-thermite? Nobody has claimed that. Where did it come from in the three buildings ? At any rate, Israel gained most from 9/11.

    • Replies: @Logan
  117. Logan says:
    @Lot

    So what do you think the Israeli reason was for the attack? It made even less sense for them to attack an American ship than for the Egyptians to do so.

    Also, I wonder about the claims that the Israelis were trying to sink the ship and kill the entire crew. I get that the American crew was very brave and competent. But it’s just really not that hard to sink a ship. People have been doing it for thousands of years.

    If they really intended to sink the Liberty, they don’t seem to have brought the right equipment along. I’m not familiar with the weaponry the Israelis had available at the time, but it seems likely they had a number of weapons that would have sunk the ship right quickly.

    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Lot
    , @truthtellerAryan
  118. Logan says:
    @Claus Eric Hamle

    I have worked for many years in fire restoration. One of the more interesting effects is what fire does to steel. Steel has to get really, really hot to melt, 1500C. But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    I have seen many steel I-beams that just slumped under their own weight, much like a licorice stick held by one end. That’s from a “normal” fire burning building materials, not one accelerated by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&oq=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&gs_l=psy-ab.3.

    What do you think happens when steel pillars holding up multiple stories above them suddenly lose their strength and stiffness?

    http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/materialInFire/Steel/default.htm

    Interestingly, steel that is heated enough to soften it, then cooled properly becomes much stronger.

  119. Logan says:
    @Logan

    Did a little more research. Apparently they fired a number of torpedoes, only one of which hit the ship, but which blew a 40′ hole in the side. Obviously adequate equipment to sink the ship had it not hit where it did.

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    I do know that “fog of war” has led to even more bizarre incidents of misidentification and “friendly fire.”

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Wizard of Oz
    , @Gilles
  120. Logan says:
    @Lot

    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.

    But, then, what isn’t?

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @anon
  121. John Hawk says:

    Phil, another brilliant recapitulation of the USS Liberty history. On June 9, 1967, a small group of post-BA students of Middle East history and languages, sat with our professor (a young PhD from a top-notch Middle East university) in the cafeteria of the prestigious East Coast university where we were in residence, and were told in detail and matter-of-factly about the USS Liberty attack and then betrayal of its crew. From my memory bank, our professor said that he had received a call from a colleague of his, (an individual who represented the major Middle East ally of the US government) who then told him in detail about an attack on an American ship by the only country in the Middle East who could have done so. I have carried this information for 50 years, and when I can, I have always called out the bravery of the USS Liberty crew, and the treasonous treachery of the cover-up artists in the White House and the U S Navy. The American Legion resolution, commendable as it is, is too little, too late.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  122. The cover up coincided with the Six Day War. The attack was a part of that War.

    The Six Day War was not just a war, it was a remaking of the US relationship with Israel, and a remaking of the self image of many Jews. It was a paradigm shift.

    That massive political shift was an important motivator of the cover up. They were part and parcel of the same political event.

    That whole shift has now been shown to be a propaganda stunt that has cost the US dearly. Perhaps push back on the USS Liberty could help reverse that, but it will run into intense opposition not just about the event but about what the War changed.

  123. Wally says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    You’re in denial of your own behavior, You are best described as a hapless race pimp, low IQ specimen pretending to be smart.

    • Replies: @Anon
  124. Lot says:
    @Logan

    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.
    But, then, what isn’t?

    Only unz.com. Oh wait…

  125. Lot says:
    @Logan

    Not just “a ship” but a smallish unarmed ship in a surpise attack.

    They have another theory that they wanted to stop the ship from gathering intel. They just can’t decide on one stupid conspiracy theory. Also JFK was killed by the Mob, the FBI, the CIA, the Russians, LBJ, the US military, the Jews, etc.

    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Logan
  126. @Logan

    Logan,

    A question.

    As you specialize in “fire restoration,” can you offer a reason why London’s burning Grenfell Tower did not collapse (in seconds) like the three (3) W.T.C. towers into “pancakes”?

    I assume you consider the tragic ( long burning ) Grenfell Tower fire as “normal” and it did not collapse into its footprint due to an absence of “thousands of gallons of jet fuel” as primary fuel accelerant.

    Thanks and I respectfully await your professional response.

    Post scriptum: My apology to commenters for taking this very important Liberty article off topic. However, and in contrast to the incredible collapse of the three (3) W.T.C. towers, one can observe pictures that show how the Grenfell Tower steel did not lose “strength and stiffness.” Full disclosure, I suggest that the London tower fire offers evidence pointing to the fact that supplemental explosive materials were used to
    cause a free fall of all three (3) towers on 9/11.

    • Replies: @Logan
  127. Rurik says: • Website
    @Ernest Gallo

    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie

    ‘sigh’

    I just watched this video Mr. Gallo

    http://www.renegadetribune.com/uss-liberty-survivor-ernie-gallo-shares-story-israels-attack-america/

    (remove the space between the ‘us s’ for the link to work. I had to separate them to post this reply)

    I learned quite a bit I hadn’t known before. For instance I wasn’t aware of pres. Johnson saying he didn’t want his ally embarrassed before he was even told who had attacked the Liberty. So he obviously knew they were going to, and then the remark about how he didn’t care if the ship went to the bottom of the ocean, or something like that.

    I have to ‘sigh’ again.

    I was also glad to see the discussion include mention of the 9/11 false flag attack and of these people’s nefarious, insidious financial power going back to the world wars.

    so many things going though my mind…

    what was it like working for the CIA all those years? As you know, the author of this article is also “X”-CIA.

    I included the “X” in quotes to be flippant, but there are many of us laypeople who have this suspicion of the CIA, just like we do the NSA.

    Mr. Unz, the proprietor of this site, has wondered aloud if there isn’t some lingering resentment from some NSA guys over the Liberty incident.

    I can’t help but wonder.. where are the CIA and NSA people who know of the serial treachery of Israel, and how they’re able to get away with murdering NSA people and yet the NSA ranks stay in line.

    so many things going through my mind.

    Was Edward Snowden simply one NSA guy who couldn’t abide the shear evil of it all?

    Knowing that the entire organization was working for Israel at the direct expense of the American people? That the American people’s tax dollars are going to support a government that is our most deadly enemy?

    If 9/11 is any indication, it certainly seems like they have zero compunction about slaughtering us in the most horrific ways, just as Johnson spoke of the sailors on the Liberty. And always, always to benefit Israel, no matter what.

    Do you have any opinion about the Golan Heights? From what I understand, that was the main prize of the Six Day War. And indeed, it has seemed to me to the main reason for our serial destabilizations and wars in the Middle East of late. I believe that our government’s efforts, (at least pre-Trump) have been to see Syria utterly destroyed (just as Iraq and Libya were utterly destroyed) so that Israel can finally lay claim to the Golan Heights with full UN recognition.

    Any thoughts?

    Anyways, I want to repeat a heart felt thank you for all you’ve done and continue to do as an honest man of honor and who has clearly sacrificed so much in the battle for truth, both on behalf of the living and the dead (murdered and betrayed).

    I hope one day that the ‘sleeping giant’ you mention in the video will awaken, and with it a new hope for justice and peace in this world.

    God bless

    ps, it has long been my contention that we need to end the Federal Reserve Bank, as it has meant private, International bankers being in control of our Treasury- and therefor everything else of consequence, before we’ll ever be able to fix anything else.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @Rurik
  128. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Logan

    1 n Israeli-US organisation has set up a school in the northern Syria governorate of Idlib, which is under the control of armed groups [terrorists], Russia Today reported on Monday. The Israeli syllabus is being taught in the school, with textbooks intended to provide Syrian pupils with a different perspective about Israel.
    An Israeli news website reported that the school has 90 Syrian pupils and 15 teachers. It is an addition to two similar schools which have been established in areas controlled by the armed groups near the borders of the occupied Golan Heights.
    Businessman Moti Kahana, a former Israeli air force soldier who holds dual Israeli-US citizenships, is the head of the organisation

    2 Libyan security forces have arrested a Mossad agent who held a leading position in Daesh in the north-eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, the Israeli website Inian Merkazi reported.
    The Hebrew website whose name translates to “Central Issues”, added that Ephraim Benjamin is a Jewish spy and that he mingled with Libyans following the 2011 revolution that resulted in the ouster of former dictator Moammer Ghaddafi.
    Masr Alarabia website described him as one of Mossad’s “Arabists” who are characterised by Arab features and who speak Arabic fluently in local dialects.
    Israeli Arabists are known for infiltrating Palestinian protests and arresting demonstrators, as well as assassinating anti-occupation Palestinian activists, according to Masr Alarabia.
    Benjamin had reportedly become a prominent imam of a large mosque in Benghazi, Libya’s second largest city, then he became a Daesh leader who commanded 200 fighters from the militant group. https://www.middleeastmonitor

  129. bjondo says:
    @wayfarer

    21st C fiction can be very lucrative

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  130. Logan says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    I have never made a claim of expertise in fire forensics, just in cleaning up and repairing after them.

    I have no idea why the Grenfell Tower didn’t collapse. Perhaps its supports were reinforced concrete rather than structural steel. Entirely different materials, especially when the cellulose-based fireproofing has been blown off the steel columns by an explosion. Reinforced concrete presumably maintains compressive strength better than raw steel in a fire, but, again, I’m no expert on that.

    Also, the Grenfell Tower appeared to mostly be burning on the outside of the building, which may not be the main support structures. I do know that the airspace behind the flammable panels acted as a chimney and greatly accelerated the fire. Presumably the only materials present to burn inside the apartments were “normal” household stuff, with normally creates temps of 600C to 1100C. Not nearly as hot as jet fuel, which burns at 800C to 1500C.

    I don’t claim to know what happened either place, but I do know that hot steel columns lose their strength. As can be seen in the images I linked to.

    Do you have evidence that the two structures were built using comparable materials and methods? If they weren’t, then there’s no reason to expect them to behave similarly in a fire, especially given the absence in London of a major impact and of the jet fuel.

    I’ll have to go now. Just got my monthly check from Mossad and am going out on the town!

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  131. bjondo says:

    anyone shifting blame/primary responsibility for the U.S.S. Liberty attack onto LBJ and/or McNamara is a dupe, shill or Jew/Israeli

  132. Rurik says: • Website
    @Rurik

    slightly off topic, but I just read that Stanley Fisher is stepping down as vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

    here’s his Wiki page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Fischer

    please just check out the short bio at the right of the page to see why and how our country and its institutions have all been corrupted into the service of Zionism.

    also note that the link that takes you to the Wiki page for the Federal Reserve System precedes the Federal with – U.S., but that’s really a lie, because the Federal Reserve Bank/System is not part of the U.S. government, but is rather a consortium of ((International Bankers)) working on behalf of their own separate agenda (total global power). As Alan Greenspan put it.. well, let’s just let him say it himself:

    over two trillion$ is missing from the Pentagon during 9/11 mastermind Dov Zakheim’s tenure as Pentagon comptroller alone, and there’s zero interest in finding out where that money went.

    Both world wars, the attack on the USS Liberty and subsequent cover-up, 9/11 and all the subsequent wars…

    are all a consequence of Zionist Jews having the key to the US treasury. With zero oversight.

    Like Chuck, I’m sorry to get off topic here, but when I read of the Vice Chairman’s resignation, this whole thing came full circle for me, and I just wanted to share that.

    • Replies: @JoaoAlfaiate
    , @anon
    , @Wally
  133. Logan says:
    @Lot

    From what I’ve read, the ship wasn’t entirely unarmed. They had several 50 cal machine guns and possibly other arms.

    This is, of course, very light armament for a warship. And it appears they never really tried to fight back.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Alden
  134. Art says:
    @Logan

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    Hasbara logic!

    Why would one torpedo a ship if one didn’t intend to sink it?

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Those Jews are so smart.

    • Replies: @Logan
  135. Rurik says: • Website
    @Logan

    they never really tried to fight back.

    they didn’t try to fight back because they were being buzzed all morning by Israeli jets, who they *thought* were their friends.

    and then the cowardly surprise attack took out the machine guns with their first salvo, taking out the communication antennas next. Then it was a full-on attempt to sink the ship with all hands – including the war crime atrocity of machine gunning the life boats.

    Watch the amazing video I posted above of Mr. Gallo’s experience on the ship as it was all happening.

    cowardice, treason at the highest levels of our zio-federal government. A betrayal so stone-cold evil that it benumbs the soul to even contemplate it.

    In a word: Zionism. The religion of psychopaths and racial supremacist murderers

  136. @Logan

    Logan,

    Does your monthly Mossad check arrive to you via direct deposit?

    At any rate, please look at the disturbing picture that Rurik has linked in comment # 141.

    Lucky the Odigo selective messaaging system worked so some people managed to “go out on the town.”

    Selah.

  137. anarchyst says:

    Normally, the 50th anniversary of ANY event bears at least a mention in the “mainstream media”. There was NOT ONE PEEP OR BLURB about the 50th anniversary of the deliberate Israeli act of war committed against the USS Liberty (GTR-5).
    THIS is PROOF that our so-called “mainstream media” is OWNED, “lock stock and barrel” by Israeli interests.
    Message to our “lugenpresse”…SHAME ON YOU///

  138. Logan says:
    @Art

    To quote Big Bang Theory: Are you sure you’re smart?

    • Replies: @Art
  139. Logan says:
    @Lot

    One Conspiracy to Rule Them All, One Conspiracy to Find Them, One Conspiracy to Bring Them All, and in the Darkness Bind Them.

    • Replies: @bjondo
  140. bjondo says:
    @Logan

    Logan, the cubicle Jew:

    “I get paid 1 shekel per lie; 2 shekels for each response to a lie; 3 shekels per angry response; 4 shekels for time wasting. 6 shekels for non sequitur response that has ‘em wasting time”

    • Replies: @anon
  141. Erebus says:
    @Logan

    But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    UL apparently gave the steel in the WTC a 6hr @1100C (2000F) rating. Judging by the colour of the smoke, the publicly released firefighters’ radio comms, and the people seen standing around at the impact hole, the idea that the fires reached sufficient temperature for sufficient time to cause any materially significant rise in structural steel temps seems far-fetched. Floor joists/pans? Maybe. Perimeter columns? Not even close. Central core columns? Not even close to not even close.

    BTW, the total amount of jet fuel that may have gone into the building would have covered one occupancy floor (not incl core) to about 3mm (1/8″). Kerosene (aka Jet Fuel) burns at <400C (750F) in open air. The fires were obviously oxygen starved so the burn temps were significantly lower.
    For a real life scale test, take a steel bucket and punch a few holes around the sides. Pour in kerosene to 3mm, put a sheet steel lid and and a 1" patio stone on top. For good measure, put a few pieces of 200mmx6mm (8"x1/4") re-bar or redi-rod inside. Light, and watch what happens. I can tell you what happens. Lots of smoke, a hot, blackened bucket, and not much else. The patio stone barely gets warm. The rebar is black but still quite tough. Quite boring, as these sorts of experiments go.

    • Disagree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Logan
    , @ChuckOrloski
  142. Alden says:
    @Rurik

    ONE Israeli pilot first refused. Then he obeyed orders. That’s what the military does, , obey orders.

    I wonder when ADL, AJC, ACLU and SPLC will declare the American Legion a Nazi KKK hate group and get every member fired from his or her job.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  143. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Projection, projection, projection…

    • Replies: @Wally
  144. Alden says:
    @Logan

    How could they fight back with a few machine guns? As they got them ready, the planes would just fly out of range.

    Read Attack on The Liberty. So many who were on deck at the first salvo were wounded. Some of the high ranking officers were the first wounded. Probably targeted because of their insignia.

    I know, I know, for the last 7,000 years no single Jew or group of Jews has ever done anything that’s not 100 percent virtuous, moral and honorable.

  145. Art says:
    @Logan

    Say Logan – gird your loins – this USS Liberty discussion is just a tune up exercise, for the Jew exposure on 9/11.

    Think Peace — Art

  146. @Joe Franklin

    Joe Franklin, that was an excellent report you made on LBJ and his ancestors. You’re 100% correct in stating since his parents, grandparents, etc. on the Jewish maternal line were all Jews, that instantly made LBJ Jewish, according to Jewish Law.
    Just tracing the line of Jewish mothers in the 36th President’s family tree was enough to prove that he, too, was Jewish.
    Thank you, Joe, for doing the research on LBJ’s family tree and posting it on this website.

  147. wayfarer says:
    @bjondo

    I’m going to remember this reply/comment. It somehow appeared echoing, at one of life’s more challenging crossroads. I’ll be filing it under, “magic of serendipity.” The best of luck to you, bjondo!

  148. Sparkon says:

    Philip Giraldi’s fine article is about the treacherous and murderous Israeli attack on the U.S.S Liberty, and not about 9/11, which Phil didn’t mention here.

    Nevertheless, Mr. Giraldi’s article has attracted the attention of some 9/11 anti-truthers and falsifiers, who are working hard to distract attention away from the Liberty Incident by trotting out some of the same ol’ same ol’ about sagging columns at the WTC.

    (One might well think these two operations are joined at the hip — or is it the anus? — Same a-holes, different doo doo.)

    However, there is no evidence that any of the fires in any of the WTC structures attained the sustained high temperatures necessary to weaken steel:

    The problems with NIST’s explanation continue in step four, where high temperatures were said to have softened the columns and floors. NIST did tests for this as well, but then abandoned the results. The first test, which examined paint deformation on steel samples chosen specifically from the fire zones, showed that less than 2% of the samples had seen temperatures above 250 °C. Another test gave the one-sided result that no samples saw temperatures above 600 °C. The obvious problem was that steel does not soften or lose significant strength at the low temperatures indicated, yet NIST’s story depends on the softening or weakening of vast quantities of structural steel.

    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/09/07/why-the-nist-report-on-the-world-trade-center-towers-is-false/

    From a survivor of the Liberty Incident, Phil Tourney:

    Anyone who doubts the sinister nature of this attack by a purported ally need only remember that, prior to the Six-Day Land Grab (a provocation that set in motion all that has followed since in the region), Lyndon Johnson was “befriended” by Arthur and Mathilde Krim. Arthur, president of United Artists, was chair of the campaign finance committee for the Democrats, a party then headed by LBJ. Krim acquired property near the LBJ Ranch in Texas where he built “Mathilde’s House” where she commenced a long-running affair with our Commander-in-Chief.

    On the night that the 1967 “war” commenced…Mathilde was having a “sleepover” in the White House. Mathilde was previously married to an Irgun terrorist and became an Irgun operative. The Irgun, led by Menachem Begin, arranged for the bombing of the King David Hotel, leaving 91 dead. Mathilde, a convert to Judaism, struck up an exquisitely well-timed affair with a U.S. president in the lead-up to this provocation. Irgun became the Likud Party of Sharon and Netanyahu.

    https://truthscooper.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/was-lbj-shacked-up-with-a-pretty-zionist-when-israel-attacked-the-uss-liberty/

    Ms. Galland (Krim) reportedly was so disturbed by Tales of the Holocaust, that she became a Jewess converted to Judaism:

    Scientist and AIDS activist Mathilde Krim was born in Como, Italy on this date in 1926. She converted to Judaism in the late 1940s, motivated by her passion about the Holocaust and her encounters at the University of Geneva with Palestinian Jewish gun-runners,

    http://jewishcurrents.org/july-9-mathilde-krim/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  149. Logan says:
    @Erebus

    As stated, don’t claim to be an expert in this area.

    However, let’s assume the 6hr @1100C fire rating for the steel is correct. I suspect this is not for the steel itself, but for the steel + fireproofing assembly, since this is how such numbers work. For instance, a two-hour rated firewall has very specific requirements for how it is assembled, overlapped, taped, etc. I know because I’ve had to deal with these, have them inspected by very anal fire inspectors, etc. Random drywall and studs do not a firewall make.

    My understanding is that the codes went from asbestos-based to cellulose-based fireproofing when the towers were in progress. Lower floors asbestos, upper floors cellulose.

    I’ve worked some with cellulose fireproofing. It’s kind of fragile, relatively easily knocked loose. I suspect it’s at least plausible that enough was knocked loose to expose some steel to high heat, whereupon it failed.

    Found an article on the subject. These engineers speculated one or more structural clips failed, starting a domino effect. Obviously, when floor 98 fails, it and all the floors above it come down onto floor 97, which simply cannot handle the weight, even if fully intact, especially when you figure in kinetic energy. Once the collapse started, it was all over.

    http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html

    But as stated I do not claim any specific expertise in this area. Just spent a good many decades in damaged buildings and on construction sites.

    One thing I can tell you. Those who claim large numbers of explosive devices were implanted fail to explain how they could install them. A site like this has many thousands of men working on it, many of them working from the plans. Believe me, they will absolutely notice and question anything that differs from the plans, most especially anything that even vaguely resembles a device of this type. Since the plans are still available, they clearly aren’t in the plans. So how did the bombers get access and time to install their “(hundreds of?) devices without being questioned? Or were all those thousands of men “in on it.”

    The Towers were completed in 1973. So its destruction was planned almost 30 years earlier? And all this almost 30 year old equipment functioned flawlessly?

    Or is the claim that these devices were installed more recently, which would be, if anything, even more challenging logistically. None of the people who were involved with janitorial or security have come forward to mention the large numbers of men doing mysterious stuff in the weeks or months prior to the attacks? Placing such devices would require opening walls and other quite disruptive stuff, but nobody noticed? Why might that be?

  150. Wally says:
    @A guy

    No hero, just useful on certain points when needed.

    As for CODOH, thanks for mentioning it, I invite readers here to visit:

    [MORE]

    http://www.codoh.com
    and

    https://forum.codoh.com

    The world is changing and panic stricken Zionists like ‘A guy’ don’t like it one bit.

    We enjoy seeing the liars squirm.

  151. Logan says:
    @Erebus

    Found a very interesting article about the fireproofing in the Trade Center. Some of my earlier statements weren’t entirely accurate.

    The article is by a guy who did extensive inspections in the Towers the year before they came down. He found multiple deficiencies, with photos of some in the article.

    I can attest to what he says, especially about later trades damaging fire protection features. Here you have a lovely intact 2-hour firewall, and a plumber or electrician cuts a two foot square hole so he can do his stuff. Then leaves it that way. I have seen this literally hundreds of times myself. Most of the time it makes no never mind. But maybe sometimes it does.

    BTW, it seems likely this inspector would have noticed explosive devices while doing such a comprehensive inspection.

    Excellent article, IMO.

    http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-155/issue-10/world-trade-center-disaster/volume-ii-the-ruins-and-the-rebirth/fireproofing-at-the-wtc-towers.html

    • Replies: @Erebus
  152. Wally says: • Website
    @Anon

    discussion here:

    [MORE]

    ‘Jews created fake Jewish graves’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10337

    see ‘holocaust’ debunking videos:

    Questioning the Holocaust: Why We Believed (Part 1 of 2)

    http://codoh.com/library/document/4056/

    The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax

    http://codoh.com/library/document/3286/

    Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid?

    http://codoh.com/library/document/1530/

    3D Imagery Demonstrates the Auschwitz Hole Hoax

    http://codoh.com/library/document/3920/

    The Majdanek Gas Chamber Myth

    http://codoh.com/library/document/3343/

    Auschwitz—The Surprising Hidden Truth

    http://codoh.com/library/document/1527

  153. Logan says:
    @Hibernian

    Ahh, but Jewishness is a taint of the blood. Can’t be gotten rid of by simple conversion.

    Would like to point out that the discussion you’re responding to does not provide any evidence of Jewish ancestry, simply that the names in question were common Jewish names, which I have no way of knowing whether this is accurate or not.

    Many surnames are held by both Jews and Gentiles. Zimmerman, for instance.

  154. @Erebus

    Erebus,

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit “diagree.”

    So scientific & understandable, your recommended steel pail and kerosene experiment might get a Threat Code “black” (no, no) warning from our Ministry of Public Education.

    Thank you!

    • Replies: @Erebus
  155. annamaria says:
    @exiled off mainstreet

    The story of the illegal Iraq War is tightly related to the story of the USSLiberty. In both cases, the US servicemen were taken advantage by the US government and they were killed on the Israel-firsters’ design: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/05/12/selective-intelligence

    http://theamericanfreedomparty.us/ziocons/

    “The awful situation that we are now confronted by in Iraq and Syria is the direct outcome of zionist actions within the American government supported by the 44 elected legislative zionists. There can be no reasonable disagreement with the fact that the Mossad provided all the miss-information about “Weapons of Mass Destruction” in Iraq, in order to solidify their “Eretz Israel” hegemonic expansion of the Middle East. Furthermore, the Iran diatribe on nuclear weapons is also a Ziocon presentation, as was the totally uncalled for constitutionally illegal war against Libya. Jews have dominated American Foreign policy for many decades and beginning in the late 20th century have also dominated domestic policy. Noteworthy is the undeniable fact that in every one of these nations Libya, Syria, and Iraq things are now far worse for the citizens as well as us, and then they were under previous governance.”

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0900paxamericana

    “February 19, 1998: Neoconservative Group Calls on US to Help Overthrow Hussein”
    The co-signers include Elliott Abrams, Richard Armitage, John Bolton, Stephen Bryen, Douglas Feith, Frank Gaffney, Fred Ikle, Robert Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad, William Kristol, Michael Ledeen, Bernard Lewis, Peter Rodman, Donald Rumsfeld, Gary Schmitt, Max Singer, Casper Weinberger, Paul Wolfowitz, David Wurmser, and Dov Zakheim. [CNN, 2/20/1998; MIDDLE EAST POLICY COUNCIL, 6/2004]
    The CPSG is closely affiliated with both the neoconservative Project for the New American Century (PNAC—see June 3, 1997 and January 26, 1998) and the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI), both of which boast Perle as a powerful and influential member.”
    The road to hell (at least $6 trillion dollars and at least 4 million dead people, including a large number of children) was plotted by the American Israel-firsters: “The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” [WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/7/2002; CHICAGO SUN-TIMES, 3/6/2003] The paper, whose lead author is neoconservative Richard Perle, is meant to advise the new, right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Other authors include Richard Perle; Meyrav and David Wurmser, the future chief adviser for Dick Cheney; Douglas Feith, the prime architect of the Iraq war, et al. The paper advocates making a complete break with past policies by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism.…” [GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002]
    Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon (see February 1982), the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” the paper says.”
    The beginning of this century witnessed a march of Jewish cannibals bent on destroying several functioning states (and slaughtering millions of people) to satisfy a dream of the mythological Eretz Israel.

  156. peterAUS says:

    A thought.

    Funny thought actually.

    In fact, hilarious (shame on me).

    In “alt-right” universe The Evil is the “Deep State”.
    One of pillars of that “Deep State” is “intelligence community”. Another is MIC.US Navy is part of it.
    Ah, yes, of course, Jews and Israel. They are The Big Evil.

    And we see here weeping over an incident where Israel messed up an “intelligence community”/MIC asset.
    Bad, bad The Big Evil.
    Good…good The Evil. In this case. Not other cases.
    Interesting.

    The irony.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  157. anon • Disclaimer says:

    There is a lot to hate.
    Israel is a genocidal rogue terrorist state with weapons of mass destruction. The attack on the Liberty is only one of its countless crimes over decades.
    This is just as relevant today as it was 50 years ago.
    It demonstrates the criminal character of the Zionist regime.
    Murdering US servicemen with impunity has just encouraged and facilitated similar crimes against Americans. Liberty – 34 dead. 9/11 – 3,000 murdered by the same criminal regime.
    They will do the same again, on an even greater scale, if it serves their purpose.
    It also demonstrates the contemptible, treasonous nature of US politicians and governments that would collude in the murder of US servicemen to serve Zionist interests. They are truly beneath contempt, less than filth, 30 shekel goy whores one and all.

  158. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    To Rurik – the missing 2.3 trillion at the time of 9/11 has now risen to over 9 trillion.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  159. Lot says:
    @Hibernian

    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.

    True, but the antisemite conspiracy mongers don’t accuse Israel of stupidity, but of being diabolical geniuses.

    Also, Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  160. @Logan

    Yes there are a lot of possible complexities (including the trivial but ultimately critical) that some want to sweep out of consideration. I wonder how often it has been assumed that you simply can’t rely on what you think are the flags or markings of an ally not to be the false flags so beloved of many UR commenters (and sometimes the reality, as are trolls). On the same line of thought, how well trained would Israeli pilots have been on ship markings?

    • Agree: Logan
    • Troll: Rurik
  161. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Your hasbara cheque is in the post.

  162. Wally says:
    @Rurik

    Besides that, it’s purely a coincidence the last three Fed Directors have been Jews.

    We know why the Fed and it’s sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.

    It would reveal how much more US taxpayers money has been given to “that shitty little country”.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  163. @John Hawk

    Where I used to work decades ago, there was a guy who said they had monitored the attack from the U.S. military communications base in Asmara, Ethiopia.

  164. Thank you for sharing the story known well to all USNAVSECGRU. I am a former CTI-2 who did intercept and TA in Russian, but was also qualified in German and Hebrew. The latter gave me an early awareness of this event although it occurred 4 years before my 1st enlistment. I am still very skeptical of official Israeli rationalizations for this unprovoked attack.

  165. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Past (Israeli attack on USS Liberty) is Prologue:

    Although you probably didn’t hear about it in US Lügenpresse, if you read solid internet sites like SicSemperTyrannis or Moon of Alabama, you will be aware that the Syrian Arab Army, in coordination with Russian, Hezbollah, and Iranian fighters and advisors, have broken the ISIS siege of Deir Ezzor. The morale boost to the SAA from this long and bloody campaign has Uncle Sam and his kosher godfather crapping in their gutchies.

    Uncle Sam, in his everlasting search for peace and tranquility, is doing his best to throw a monkey wrench into a Hezbollah-negotiated deal by which ISIS fighters and some civilians could depart in busses: USA is holding up the busses in the desert, where passengers are deprived of food and water. The plan appears to be to starve them to death.

    On a more immediate front, US has hired Kurdish fighters to ensure that SAA does not push through to regain control of Syria’s rich oil fields.

    As for Unc Sam’s kosher godfather, the Iranian bogey man has turned his normally soft and mellow eyes into swirling pinwheels of red, green and purple:

    “Iran intends to set up bases in Syria!!”

    “Iran is gonna move its nuclear facilities to Syria!

    “Iran is gonna hide under your bed and grab your nuts while you — um, do whatever it is you do when the night is long and you’re scared out of your gutchies.”

    So kosher godfather has sent his marching orders — to the U S Congress (those of that body who are not still in Israel):

    ISRAEL NEEDS TO PREPARE AMERICA FOR THE UPCOMING CONFLICT IN SYRIA

    An Israeli tipping point may have been reached, forcing Israel to either be resigned to a permanent Iranian presence in Syria or significantly increase its operations in Syria, potentially escalating into a wider regional war.

    The article explains that Netanyahu did a man dance in front of Putin, demanding to know exactly what Russia intended to do about pesky Iran. Putin dismissed him with a flick of the finger: “Iran is Russia’s strategic ally in the Middle East”
    .
    So now, USA has to be worried because Israel is gonna have to attack Russia, and how is Russia gonna react when Russian troops are killed? It’s gonna cause a regional war!

    . .The region could be ignited with a single match. That light could be a significant Israeli attack in Syria in response to the increased military transfers facilitated by a permanent Iranian presence, starting the engine toward a wider regional conflagration.

    And yet,

    As former head of the National Security Council Yaakov Amidror said, “At the end of the day it is our responsibility, not the responsibility of the Americans, or the Russians, to guarantee ourselves, and we will take all the measures that are needed for that.”

    So does that mean that it’s going to become a problem for USA when Israel attacks Russian who are operating in alliance with Iran in Syria, or not?

    I’m so confused.

    There is no doubt the Iranians will be testing Israel very soon, feeling secure that no one including the US will come to their aid. American resolve to stand by an essential ally will be severely tested, as many US allies will not choose Israel’s side if Israel acts.

    The West mistakenly believes the imminent defeat of Islamic State (ISIS) will stabilize Syria and the surrounding region, but nothing could be further from the truth. ISIS with its offshoots will turn back to insurgency, while the Islamist Iranian victors solidify their land corridor to the Mediterranean

    What we have is:
    Defeating ISIS was/is a bad thing
    Russia is on Iran’s side and will not come to Israel’s aid against Iran
    Neither will most of the rest of the world
    Neither will USA
    but
    There is no need for US to come to the aid of Israel because it is Israel’s responsibility to defend itself
    Israel will have to kill Russians
    Which will implicate USA in a regional conflict
    Which Israel will set off by attacking Russia

    THEREFORE: Israelis are going to be hard at work twisting arms of US Congressmen to turn against their president and against the best interests of the US citizens and come to the aid of Israel when it sets off a regional war against the Iranian boogie man under its bed:

    . . .
    This is why Israel must prepare its American ally sooner rather than later to know that Israel may not be able to sit idly by while Iran’s uses its new base to transfer more and more powerful weaponry to Hezbollah.

    Yo

    Kim

    Can your nukes reach Tel Aviv?

    • Replies: @anon
  166. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    The irony.

    nah

    not irony.

    a point of origin

    a beginning point

    rather, the second or maybe third or fourth point from the beginning of Israeli subversion of US politics/government into Israel’s bitch

    Eisenhower forced Israel to back down from its scheme to invade Egypt
    Israel marking time
    simmering

    betimes, Israelis steals uranium from USA
    Israel builds nuclear bombs
    then Israelis cheated when JFK demanded to inspect Israeli nuke facilities
    then JFK demanded that Israel register its foreign agents
    all of these unconscionable demands on poor wittle persecuted Israel were too much for the fledgling state
    JFK got offed
    Matilda “Esther” Krim and hubby Mordechai attach short reins to a willing LBJ
    THEN the deep state begins digging in – — -

  167. Rurik says: • Website
    @Alden

    SPLC will declare the American Legion a Nazi KKK hate group

    it would perhaps be a karma of sorts, being as the Legion has for all these years betrayed the men murdered on the Liberty

    so much venality, so much cowardice

    it staggers

  168. Rurik says: • Website
    @anon

    the missing 2.3 trillion at the time of 9/11 has now risen to over 9 trillion.

    I was just reading this blog post

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/please-just-fucking-die-already-acb3a879656e

    I would say sorry for it being off topic, but it isn’t really

    I found it because I typed ‘John McCain please die’ into a search engine, (just wanted to put that out into the universe) and then I clicked on the link

  169. Rurik says: • Website
    @Lot

    diabolical geniuses.

    naw

    two bit swindlers, they just got lucky with Woodrow Wilson being a post turtle

    Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.

    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-israel-corruption-olmert-20140331-story.html

    aren’t these things being indicted for corruption as we speak?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  170. Rurik says: • Website
    @Wally

    the Fed and it’s sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.

    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    , @Paul C.
  171. peterAUS says:
    @anonymous

    Ah…now I see.
    Thank you.

    Up to 1967 there was no Bad Deep State.
    It was, as in this case, young dedicated brave patriots etc….etc…..

    Then this incident happened.
    Sorry, not an incident.
    The cold blooded murder of young dedicated etc…..

    And after that we got Bad Deep State.

    Got it.

    Israel, by this cold blooded etc…..actually created Bad Deep State.

    Bloody Israelis.

    Man…these Jews …how do they do that?
    They, by alt-right consensus, aren’t that smart.
    And, by alt-right consensus too, West is very smart.

    So, not so smart minority subverted much smarter majority.

    F*&k, that’s confusing.
    Usually smart subvert/trick not so smart.

    Maybe because they are bad.
    So, bad minority subverted much smarter majority.
    Which couldn’t recognize that subverting.
    But, then, that’s not very smart I’d say. Not recognizing I mean.

    Still confusing.

    Probably because I am dumb.
    Yes, that must be it.

    But, then, I’ve been commanding, training, leading….managing, tutoring….lots of people.
    They must’ve been even dumber than me.
    But there have been lots of them.

    Confusing.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @anonymous
  172. Gilles says:
    @Logan

    “But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.”

    Because the Liberty crew were able to jury rig an antenna and restore comm, enough to dispatch a successful distress message, most certainly intercepted by Israeli forces despite their jamming.

    What else explains the sudden cessation of the attack and offer of assistance from the torpedo boat crew, smartly rejected by McGonagle.

    Gilles

  173. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @bjondo

    what is your pay for being a takkiyah cuck ?

  174. MrLiberty says:

    As AIPAC OWNS and controls the US Congress, calls for an investigation, while wonderful to finally see from this organization, mean little. Johnson’s lies led to 50,000 dead US soldiers in Vietnam and millions of dead Vietnamese. His lies on behalf of Israel in this case will never be given the treatment they deserve, and most assuredly Israel will NEVER be exposed as the murderers they are to enough eyes to matter.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  175. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .

  176. MEexpert says:
    @Logan

    Assuming your assumptions are correct. Questions:

    Did the temperature for the entire building rise to the softening level instantaneously? Or could it? Obviously not. With so many floors and different materials that is totally impossible. Would such a high building come down in a manner of controlled demolition? The steel used in Twin Towers was very strength steel. We still have a 64 -thousand dollar question. How did Tower 7 come down?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  177. Erebus says:
    @Logan

    First, yes I also assumed the UL 6hr rating would be for the steel/fireproofing combination. The steels that can handle 1100C for 6hrs unprotected are normally called “Tungsten” or “Titanium”. :-)
    I also agree that too many trades people treat fire protection as nothing more than an impediment to their work.

    As for the rest in your #155 & #157, let’s agree to resist turning this excellent article on the Liberty into yet another tortured wrangle about 9/11.

    Cheers.

  178. @Rurik

    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations

    Perhaps in the past it might have, but by now they have cooked the books to such an extent that we would elicit nothing. Ron Paul tried and failed to audit them. Rand Paul is trying and failing. Despite that, they continue to resist. Only torches and pitchforks will bring them down.

  179. “Zalmay Khalilzad” , how did this lowlife became such a loyal slave to turn against his own people? The Poor Afghanis. Plz someone with a good psychological background help explain such treachery from one of the most loyal cultures
    As for some of our own, Ramsfeld, Bolton, Weinberger, and the whore of whores, Cheney….,it’s no much surprise. They’ve been trained in the art all their lives. Cowards is what they’ve been raised as.

  180. @Logan

    It’s called ” manufacturing a reason ” You said it, Egypt had a justified reason to do it, so Jooies are quick to act because the “usual suspect ” is already established. They didn’t finish the job, as LBJ would have liked. We are still debating, with all the proof we have, whether Jews can ever do wrong!!!!!!
    Exactly the same for 911. By the time the truth comes out ( never in this bondage), the mission would be accomplished…. The dead Iraqis, Afghanis, Libyans, Syrians, won’t come back to see justice ……

  181. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Eagle Eye

    remembering that the unstated SUBJECT of this sentence is a Democratic president, LBJ, who:

    (1) probably had his predecessor assassinated; (2) was also responsible for the Gulf of Tonkin incident (false flag op to ramp up the Vietnam war) and (3) ordered the USS Pueblo incident (deliberate provocation of North Korea).

    The best thing about the Johnson presidency was the manner of its ending. Johnson was forced out by the brothers and sisters, friends and lovers of the hundreds of thousands of young men conscripted to fight a criminal war of aggression in Vietnam. Those young people gathered outside the White House and chanted:

    LBJ, LBJ. How many kids did you killed today.

    That was the seen at the time, I believe correctly, as the determining factor in Johnson’s decision not to run in ’68.

  182. Erebus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit “diagree.”

    Hey, no problem Chuck, but “scientific” wouldn’t be how I describe it. At best it can provide a starting point to a physical reality based discussion, something sorely needed in some circles.

    Code Black huh? Damn, not again!

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  183. peterAUS says:
    @MEexpert

    How did Tower 7 come down?

    What Tower 7?

    Ah, “that” Tower 7.

    Umph…….well…you know….ahm….

    Well, it got on fire by flying debris.
    And….well…..umph……it was on fire, and….ahm…..it was a VERY hot fire.
    All that office material is very flammable and creates a very hot fire.
    Very very ..very hot fire.
    So that fire weakened the structure of the building and it collapsed.

    It was a very special, unique, combination of fire and building design, built and material.
    Like…ah…yes….like freak accident, you know.
    It shouldn’t have happened but it did.
    Just….UNIQUE.

    Let’s talk about something else.

  184. @anon

    In what way is Hezbollah ” terrorist”. ? The Talmud said so? Shamir? Bad teeth ugly critter Begin? Live in your own shit for 8 yrs Sharon? I believe Adolf Hitler accused the hoarders, Usurers ( this practice is only done to Goyim) , etc… as terrorist. If you think Hezbollah or Hamas is a terrorist group, then why are we constantly reminded of ” terrorists” that Hitler helped the get rid of as victims of THE GREATEST CRIME ever committed, can’t even question it’s records. One day all truth will come out. I wonder if all these museums of fake holofaux will be allowed to stand……

  185. Art says:
    @peterAUS

    Confusing.

    Confusion is your goal – you love confusion, you gain by confusion, you intend confusion – you thrive on confusion.

    “By deception we make war” – that is the Jew mantra.

    Big lies, half truths, and false claims are your memes against the good people of this earth.

    The Jews can never know peace, because they are always working against what it takes to build peace.

    Peace can only occur around truth.

    Think Peace — Art

  186. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .

    John McCain will be so disappointed that you forgot to mention the “moderate” ISIS goat boys that US trained & armed,
    and Prince Salman will think you ungrateful for failing to acknowledge Saudi funding of ISIS goat boys, but your friendly US quartermaster will prolly be glad you overlooked that ISIS goat boys drove US (Toyota) trucks and carried US weapons,
    Ash Carter will note with arrogant disdain that you did not see his hidden hand behind attacks such as the US air attack on Syrian soldiers that enabled an ISIS attack,
    and Diane Feinstein will be pleased that you did not point out obvious false flag chemical attack that drew in US advisors & covert operatives,
    and Hillary Clinton will be relieved that you didn’t notice how she arranged to arm Syrian rebels — er, goat boys.

    other than that you nailed it.

    l
    o
    l

  187. annamaria says:
    @Rurik

    Israel is forcing the US to spend more money and American blood for the future Eretz Israel:

    https://www.rt.com/news/402270-syrian-military-israel-strike/

    http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/un-report-us-led-coalition-airstrikes.html

    “Israeli plane strikes Syrian positions in Hama province, kills two servicemen”
    Nothing changed since the 90-s when ziocons have begun cheerleading for remaking the Middle East to ensure the security of Israel. The moral midget-state wants more blood and more mounds of flesh as if the 4 million slaughtered civilians (including hundreds of thousands of children) are not enough for the ziocons project: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=jewish_institute_for_national_security_affairs_1
    “February 9, 2003: Washington Post: Bush Administration in Near-Perfect Accord with Likud-Run Israeli Government: ” But the US is not just in accord with Israel; it is in accord with Likud, the hardline conservative political party currently in charge of the Israeli government.
    ‘Likudniks Really in Charge Now’ -The Post explains that in Abrams’s and Wurmser’s view, promoting democracy in the Middle East [slaughtering civilians and destroying the neighboring states] is the best way to assure Israel’s security. Like other neoconservatives, they see the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of a “democratic Palestine” as necessary for peace in the region. The Post writes, “Members of the group do not hide their friendships and connections, or their loyalty to strong positions in support of Israel and Likud.” [WASHINGTON POST, 2/9/2003]

  188. annamaria says:
    @MrLiberty

    “IPAC OWNS and controls the US Congress. … Johnson’s lies on behalf of Israel…”

    His successors, Bush and Cheney, sold out to ziocons completely and thus they were even worse for the US than the traitorous Johnson. http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74#complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74
    “July 8, 1996: The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” [WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/7/2002; CHICAGO SUN-TIMES, 3/6/2003] The paper, whose lead author is neoconservative Richard Perle, is meant to advise the new, right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. …It advocates making a complete break with past policies by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism.…” [GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002] Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon (see February 1982), the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” the paper says. [PERLE, 7/8/1996; GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002; CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, 3/19/2003] Iraq is first on the list of nations to be transformed. Saddam Hussein must be overthrown, the authors say.”

    Don’t we recognize the spectacular results of the Clean Break? — The destroyed Iraq, Syria, Libya, and the ruined EU (flooded with the refugees and low-IQ migrants). The loss of trillions of dollars for the ziocon project in the context of crumbling infrastructure and obscene “health-care” system in the US. The ziocons consumed the US. Soon it will be just an empty shell left by the voracious ziocon parasitoid that is ready to relocate and devour other peoples and other states.
    Four million dead civilians, including, hundreds of thousands of dead children in the Middle East. They are the victims of Israel-firsters.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  189. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    Don’t forget Jimmy Carter — he let the Trojan Horse in: Golda Meir played him like a fiddle: he got tough with Israel: You have GOT to stop settlements, move to 1967 borders, he demanded.
    Golda negotiated: OK, we want a museum to perpetual Jewish suffering, we want you to pay for it, we want you to give us land at your front door for it.
    Voila, the holocau$t museum.

    Carter stood right in line w/ Wilson, FDR, Truman in allowing Jews to take over.

  190. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    PeterAUS —

    Congrats on your training & leading gigs; I don’t do chest-thumping — hurts like hell pounding on the pacemaker.

    You’re correct, of course, Deep State was not a ‘switch off – switch on’ function.

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.

    Consider a few key events/dates in Israel’s pre-Liberty history (fast-forwarding from Jewish expulsion of British, and more-or-less systematic dispossession of Palestinians):

    1962 JFK sends team to inspect Israeli nuclear facility; Israel disguises the plant, cheats.

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/26/how-the-israelis-hoodwinked-jfk-on-going-nuclear-dimona-atoms-for-peace/

    JFK also was intent on dismantling the CIA, perhaps the core element of the “Deep State.”

    1962 Eichmann executed. This is a crucial event: Israel got rid of the last potential witness to Jewish infamy in condemning fellow Jews to death: there’s every reason to believe the deportation of Hungarian Jews was not just a matter of neglect on the part of Jewish leaders, but a contract: Eichmann was ‘hired’ to be the Levi who would smite Jews that zionist leaders did not think sufficiently committed to the zionist project. Check out Exodus 32. Recognize that the Jewish leave-taking from Europe and in-gathering of Diaspora in Palestine WAS a full replication of Exodus, including the slaying of those Jews who ‘worshipped the Golden Calf’. You’re a leader & trainer; you know that “choosing” a team also involves de-selecting persons deemed unfit to be among the “chosen.” Moses dealt with this group by calling upon Levites to kill them. Eichmann was assigned to kill un-chosen Jews.

    November 23, 1963 JFK assassinated. A Deep State-Israeli two-fer

    1965 The Apollo Affair: Jews steal uranium from USA in their on-going project to build a nuclear bomb

    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  191. @Erebus

    Erebus,

    Yes… I believe our present False Flag threat-level is “black.”

    In reverse to the one implemented by former-D.H.S.
    Secretary Tom Ridge, my (color coded) threat-alert system
    proceeds thusly:

    BROWN for shit as likely to hit the fan; i.e., Charlottesville.

    RED for an impending False Flag attack which will involve > 3 casualties, a dead gunman, a hunt for complicit Islamo-Fascists…,
    and three full days of Corporate Media (24/7) coverage of the incident.

    BLACK is when our ZUSA government’s loss of patience and DARK “will” to either intensify current immoral wars or attack another “rogue state” has maxed out.

    Thanks!

  192. If there’s a decent inquiry, it shouldn’t neglect the occult component of this tragedy. It’s huge, and it’s pointing right to the “sacred of sacred” of the perpetrators. Something so important to them, that despite all high risks to be identified as such they won’t commit a single crime without using it. Just like most serial killers.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  193. peterAUS says:
    @anonymous

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.

    Agree.
    I would actually appreciate you expanding on it.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.

    Agree.
    Now, that “wrested” is a bit tricky word I think. Maybe they were good at it. Division of labour between TWO (or more?) groups UNITED by single goal?
    How about this: one group, dominant at the time (Anglo-Saxons) simply getting on board a group they thought was competent and would always be second? In time the second becoming the first? Maybe there is something in this theory? If yes, then, maybe, blaming Jews would sound almost……hypocritical?
    Just a thought.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.

    Maybe.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.

    Agree.
    Now, again, was it only Jews or some other parties as well?
    One could even say that Jews earned that by heavy casualties and being smart (Project Manhattan).

    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.

    Let’s not lose focus here. Especially re those Foxbats…….
    Liberty incident.
    I am failing to see, actually, what exactly is the problem here?
    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.
    The cover-up was, from politically/strategically expedient reasons at the time, intensive and comprehensive.
    A proper inquiry, in this climate, is impossible.
    The victims should be recognized, by US administration.
    The victims/families should be compensated by both US administration and Israeli government.

    Like:
    26 February 1991: Nine British soldiers of the 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, were killed and further 11 injured after their Warrior armoured vehicles were hit by Maverick missiles fired by two U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft An Oxford inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killings.
    And result:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-19/news/9202140948_1_air-force-pilots-friendly-fire-deaths-fluorescent-panels

    Some excerpts from the article for lazy ones:

    The jury`s finding in Oxford, England, could result in calls for the pilots` extradition to England and trial for manslaughter.
    But a British Home Office spokesman told The Associated Press that he did not believe British law would sanction criminal action for killings that occurred during a war overseas.
    Anne Leech, whose 20-year-old son was among those killed, said she did not want to see the pilots prosecuted.
    “We just wanted their version of what happened. To be honest, all we would really like is to know why they did it, that`s all we`ve ever wanted to know,“ she said.
    The pilots were not at the inquest and the Pentagon has refused to release their names, although heavily censored versions of their statements were given to the British government.
    The soldiers` families originally were told their sons died in a night battle. Then they were told the fight occurred in daylight but that blowing sand obscured the pilots` visibility.

    Construct some great conspiracy around this too?
    Blame the Jews ?

  194. prusmc says:
    @anonymous

    Does Robert Caro’s detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Ktimm?

    • Replies: @Miro23
  195. @AB_Anonymous

    AB,

    I for one find it very strange that the cult-like Hasbara regulars, i.e., Sam “The Sham” Shama, have yet to appear on Mr. Giraldi’s latest outing of the ugly truth.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  196. Miro23 says:
    @prusmc

    Does Robert Caro’s detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Krimm?

    I don’t know about Robert Caro’s book but Philip Nelson’s excellent “LBJ from Mastermind to “The Colossus” does deal with Mathilde Krimm:

    P.213 “records showed numerous instances of [Mathilde] passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint. Moreover on the morning of June 5, when Johnson was informed at 4:30 a.m. that Israel had attacked Egypt, the first person he told about it was Mathilde Krimm, going to her White House bedroom to inform her that ‘The war had started’”.

    And on the same page;

    As demonstrated through the last several chapters, it is indisputable that, by 1967, Lyndon Johnson had surrounded himself with ardent and strident, Jewish and non-Jewish, militant Zionists, people who had worked for decades to first establish the nation of Israel and then for two more decades to expand its borders. As will be demonstrated shortly, this was done in such a way that evidence was left that reflected months of planning. The Six Day War was not spontaneous, or randomly started by either side – it had been planned for months, as a joint effort between the CIA and the Israeli Mossad. The precept of “need to know” strictly limited the knowledge of most presidential advisers and others in the executive branch, except for Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara.

    Moreover, such other people as George Ball and Dean Rusk, and therefore the State Department, were not “in the loop” in this planning. The weight of the evidence indicates that a plan was executed according to a long-scheduled, sophisticated operation that had been prepared from the start within the White House to make it appear that Israel had been the victim of a surprise attack by its Arab neighbors.

    “All during the six days of carnage that Israel inflicted on its neighbors.”

    • Disagree: ChuckOrloski
  197. annamaria says:
    @peterAUS

    The documents about ziocons’ malicious influence on the US “deciders” are widely available, no need in a conspiracy.
    “Autumn 1992: Influential Neoconservative Academic Advocates Breaking Up Middle Eastern Countries, Including Iraq:” http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=clean+break&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go
    A time line of giving classified information to Israel by various Israel-firsters in the US government: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=douglas_feith
    Neoconservative movement in the US: http://historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=irving_kristol_1

  198. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.

    Highly unlikely.
    According to some Israeli historians, “the war was over in 6 minutes, not 6 days” –
    Israel destroyed Egypt’s air force on June 5, 1967.

    The Liberty was attacked on June 8, 1967.
    So it’s not likely the attack was a false flag pretending to be Egyptian fliers attacking US, thereby drawing US into war against Egypt.

    Israelis circled the Liberty for hours before they commenced the attack. The main air attack lasted for 90 minutes.

    According to Ernie Gallo, who was there:

    “Israel had complete air superiority over the Sinai” (the Liberty was in the Mediterranean, off the Sinai).

    “Israel overflew 12 times in a four hour period, until around noon. Then, Israel began to strafe at 2:00; they strafed and bombed and dropped napalm canisters port & starboard, machine gunned, 20 mm cannon . . . over 90 minutes . . . wiped out bridge . . .
    Then, torpedo boats materialized, Israel continued to strafe and torpedo . . . one torpedo struck starboard . . .where our communications crew was . . . killing 24 . . . 2 Marines, 1 NSA civilian, rest were sailors.”

    Israel then flew two helicopters with Israeli Marines over the Liberty, apparently intending to rappel to the Liberty, but that plan was scuttled.
    . . .

    “Israelis machine-gunned our life rafts, a violation of Geneva conventions.”

    Not the substance of an “incident.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGLGvmxZuH0

    One (other) possible reason for the attack on the Liberty, according to Gallo, is that Liberty crewmen might have become aware that Israel was killing Egyptian POWs and burying their bodies in the sands in the Sinai.

    A few weeks ago Norman Finkelstein posted a three-way discussion with himself, Phil Weiss and James North.
    Regarding the Liberty incident, Finkelstein said:

    Weiss: The conventional theory is the Liberty had radio surveillance and knocking out the Liberty allowed Israel to continue the war another two days.

    It’s alleged that the Liberty had gotten wind of the fact that Israel was going to seize the Golan, so Israel attacked it. But this theory doesn’t hold up on close inspection.

    [Finkelstein]: My own hypothesis is, this is Israel’s big moment, the climactic of the Jewish people, a collective paroxysm-cum-orgasm. All the armed services want to get a piece of the action. The air force, the army, the navy.

    The navy hadn’t yet seen real combat. As the war was winding down, they were probably anxious to be part of this glorious chapter. To play their part in the Jewish people’s revenge on the goyim.

    Remember, the Israelis don’t just hate Arabs. They’re in an eternal war with all the goyim. All the goyim wanted the Jews dead. Just read Daniel Goldhagen if you have any doubts. The Americans are goyim. They refused entry to Jews fleeing the Holocaust; they didn’t bomb the railway tracks to Auschwitz; they, too, wanted all the Jews dead. Now they’re butting into our war, dispatching a spy ship into our waters, trying to restrain us in our moment of glory. Fuck the Americans! Fuck the goyim! Long live the Jews!

    Besides the Israeli air assault on the USS Liberty, the Israeli navy torpedoed the vessel. It got to share in the mock heroics and avenge the millennial suffering of the Jews. Everyone got their 15 minutes of drawing blood, in memoriam of the Jewish martyrs.

    I am the first to admit gaps in my hypothesis but it probably gets closer to the truth than positing a rational motive.

    North: How was the attack suppressed?

    Raison d’etat. Of course President Johnson knew what happened. But Israel was now the US’s “strategic asset” in the Middle East, so Johnson gave it a pass. http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/

  199. @ChuckOrloski

    ChuckOrloski,

    Ca ne va pas la tête, ou quoi ? It’s very strange that people with such low IQ and such high suspicion level (usually in direct correlation) have yet to appear on …. Get a life.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  200. Yes “incident” doesn’t cover much ground any more than “premeditated attack” gives any clue as what premeditation there was or at what level. But I think peterAUS is on the right track apart from that astonishing agreement that “World War ll was a triumph for the Jews”. Is there any tiny element of truth in that statement except the probability that Zilonist aims to create a Jewish state in Palestine would not have succeeded if there had been no WW2?

  201. @peterAUS

    See #205

    World War 2 a triumph [sic] for the Jews** [sic]!!!

    You can’t be serious.

    **not “fanatical and single minded Zionists”

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Wizard of Oz
  202. @Miro23

    Interesting that none of that gives any support to a view of the USS Linerty attack being anything other than an irritating and potentially embarrassing stuff up from LBJ’s point of view.

  203. @Sparkon

    “Official records”. Primary evidence citations please.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  204. @Sparkon

    “Irgun operative”? Evidence that she did more than facilitate Irgun arms purchases in some way before she had been to Palestine or converted to Judaism?

  205. @anonymous

    Sloppy slanders aren’t very effective. Mathilde (not Matilda) Krim’s husband was the important Democrat Arthur Krim. Where does your “Mordechai” come from.

    • Replies: @Art
  206. @Miro23

    I hadn’t heard of Mathilde Krim but, looking her up it is obvious that there were plenty òf good reasons why she might be a guest at the White House without any necessity to suppose she was having it off with LBJ. I note that your “excellent” source doesn’t bother to spell her name correctly – or is that just your introduced error?

    It doesn’t take much thought to explain why LBJ wouldn’t have wanted a big beat up on Israel at the point where it had established itself as militarily dominant in the ME and the US was stuck in Vietnam. You don’t need Mathilde at all.

  207. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Well…don’t like “one liners” and personal exchanges, but let’s make an exception.
    It could be actually interesting overall.

    Wording.
    Better would’ve been, probably, “Jews benefited a lot from the result of WW2″.
    Semantics. Not my area.

    Now, in more detail.
    State of Israel is just a very small part of it actually.

    Being “untouchable” is much more important.
    Having always the highest moral ground.
    Libraries have been written about this by much smarter people than I am, so really no need for it.

    Now, I don’t, personally, blame only Jews for “Holocaust” religion being pushed down our throats.
    My feeling is that it started as Western victors of WW2 wanted to cement their victory and extend it over Soviets…….. and it got out of their control, especially after fall of Communism.
    Absolved/absolves victors from war crimes. From naked geopolitics.
    And, when you are one those “good guys” all wars you wage are good.
    All you do is good.
    “We won against Nazis who were gassing Jews. We just keep saving the world in the same vein. We are force of good”
    Remember “Band of brothers”? Episode “Why we fight”?

    Again, really smart people wrote libraries about all that too.
    I am just a simple old ex-military…….

  208. This “Congressional” inquiry will be absolutely pointless (now). Decades too late. The guilty and culpable long dead or gone or whatever. So this isn’t about justice and never can be (now). It’s about something else (you decide). The outcome is already determined (same as always). Nothing will be done. Nobody will be held accountable. So this is, as always, just another stupid circus in the circus tent that is Amerika.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  209. @Wizard of Oz

    Just for the record my #205 got tenumbered to #206….

  210. I have just found the Comment from Vdndetta that I referred to earlier. It quotes one Stuart Slade at length.

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Vendetta

    September 17, 2016 at 7:59 pm GMT

    I think that was replied to by Ron Unz in a way that I took to be affectionately insulting….

    Anyway it would be good to have PG engage in detail with such a detailed version since it is unlikely that Congress will.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  211. Paul C. says:
    @Rurik

    It’s much worse than I thought. Not only do the psychopathic Talmudic bankers control the Fed and all Central banks throughout the world, but via Kabbalah inspired Freemasonry, they control everything in nearly all societies. In the US, we’re essentially all slaves as a result of the 14th amendment, which makes everyone a “US Citizen”. The “United States” is a federal corporation. All federal agencies, all courthouses, all foreign governments are all corporations. We’re citizens of a corporation, essentially chattel, without any real rights, just privileges. We own nothing. Even if you pay off your house, it can be taken from you if you don’t pay the property tax. Everything is based on Admiralty law (Maritime law, law of the sea).

    Research “Strawman”. There is a way out and that’s to renounce US Citizenship and go back to being an American National, with Common Law rights. This puts us in the “creditor” role, so the banks can’t seize our property, such as in a foreclosure. And incrementally “the people” can take back their government and begin to dismantle the current banking system.

    It’s a rabbit hole, but Ken Scott Cousens is a good place to start.

    [MORE]

  212. Sparkon says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Do you know how to use footnotes? If so, please follow the link I gave in my #116 under the paragraph where you are asking for sources. Please see footnote [11] pointing to the source document, and remarks by Dr. William Quandt, which confirm everything in the paragraph I quoted here from Ms. Spingola.

    To make it as easy as possible for you, I have included a direct link, below, to this document, and a relevant excerpt here:

    [11] 40 Years after the 1967 War: The Impact of a Prolonged Occupation by Jan de Jong, Dr. Edmund Ghareeb, Herbert Kelman, Ambassador Afif Safieh, Dr. William Quandt, Alvaro de Soto, The Palestine Center, Washington, DC, 2007, pp. 10-11

    Dr. Quandt joined the Department of Politics at the University of Virginia and he holds the Edward Stettinius chair there. He started in 1994 and he has served as an academic in a number of universities and institutions, think tanks in the United States, including Brookings and Rand Corporation and he also served with the National Security Council. He has written extensively on this issue and was involved with the 1978 Camp David Accords. He is the author of many books…

    Dr. Quandt:

    I was not in government at the time. I didn’t begin my own service in government until five years later.

    I had the chance at various times to look at all the publicly available documents as well as some of those that have not yet been released.
    [...]
    The last days of May were very puzzling and complex. Johnson left town for his Texas ranch on 27 May, right as the crisis was getting very, very tense indeed. He took none of his foreign policy advisors with him. Instead, he was surrounded by his family and friends, including Democratic party money man and his Texas neighbor, Arthur Krim, and his wife Mathilde with whom Johnson seemed to have, what we might now politely call, a very close personal relationship. Mathilde was also a convert to Judaism who had worked as a secret agent for the Irgun right after World War II and had helped to smuggle guns from Europe to the Irgun underground. She later married movie mogul Arthur Krim and retained a vivid interest in the Middle East. The files actually show numerous instances of her passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint.
    [...]
    Johnson did not return to Washington until 1 June in the company, incidentally, of Mrs. Krim, who then stayed on at the White House as his guest for the next week.
    [...]
    News of the beginning of the war reached LBJ early in the morning on 5 June. He did not seem to be surprised. The first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Johnson was a complex man; he did not share the views of some of his aides that Israel’s military victory was a cause for celebration. At a meeting on 7 June when the magnitude of Israel’s victory was already apparent and some of the aides were, in fact, rather happy and enthusiastic, Johnson said that he was not so sure that we were out of our troubles

    http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/40-Years-after-the-1967-War-The-Impact-of-a-Prolonged-Occupation.pdf

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  213. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Well, I’ve gone through Slade’s material and Vdnetta’s posts related to this topic.

    Long story short, assuming those facts are correct, I agree with Slade (and, consequently, with Vdnetta).

    Points I found interesting are (excerpts, one by one; bold parts are mine):

    At the time, she was operating under orders from the US Sixth Fleet to stay “outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said.” This is where the first error of judgement took place. Her handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt’s territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles from Port Said.

    The United States never approved the appointment of a liaison officer, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty’s arrival in the area

    At eleven o’clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board.

    the Israelis back then made a big thing out of their contempt for the routines, practices and doctrines employed by more established armed forces. In fact, they derided such practices as being typical of hidebound reactionaries; the Israeli Military Forces didn’t need all that nonsense about correct procedure.

    Ensign Aharon Yifrah, combat information officer aboard the flagship of these torpedo boats miscalculated their target’s speed as 30 knots, not realizing sea conditions had slowed his real speed to around 25. Again we have the sloppy attitude of the Israeli Armed Forces entering the picture

    Israeli naval commanders called up the air force and asked for help from whatever was available. What was available were two Mirages returning from a bombing strike, they were armed only with 30 millimeter cannons and air-to-air missiles and were very short on fuel. Had this been a deliberate attack they would have carried a warload better suited for attacking a ship.

    these were pilots who were not trained for maritime operations

    Minutes later came a second group of planes, Super-Mysteres, equally ill-suited for a naval engagement. They had been diverted from a strike against Egyptian infantry positions and carried napalm (but had been diverted going out, not coming back so had a decent fuel reserve).

    The Israeli communications system in 1967 was basically WW2 equipment that had been overhauled and modernized. It was already overloaded with running a fast-moving mobile war and , thanks to a breakdown in that communications system, the message to the Navy was caught in a backlog of calls waiting to go out

    the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment.

    Flag is at the stern, the ship is heading away from the FAC that are chasing her from astern.

    a range of 4 to 8 miles from a 60 ton speedboat bouncing around in a cloud of spray while being shaken to pieces by two 4,000 shaft horsepower diesels running flat out.

    One of the American sailors on board, disregarded Captain McGonagle’s order not to fire on the approaching craft, and opened up with a deck gun.

    telling the difference between dirty silver and shiny gray is very hard – especially since both would have taken on a blue tinge by reflection from the surrounding sea and sky

    he wasn’t trying to find out “which ship is this” he was looking for “which Egyptian Ship looks most like the one in front of me”

    When they reached the bows, the captain of one boat saw “GTR-5″ on the hull. He immediately halted fire, extended help to the Liberty, and called for rescue helicopters.

    Again, let’s not get lost sight of the real issue while focusing on details.

    The very fact that we are yammering here (with thousands of other people all over Internet and publishing) is so wrong it boggles the mind.
    We are talking about US Government here.
    United States of America……….

    It should have had proper inquiry, produced a detailed report and published it.
    Also the recognition, compensations, responsibilities with consequences, even punishments.
    Israel too.

    This place is not proper to seriously discuss the issue, really.
    It demands proper sources, resources, methodology….the works.

    In fact, writing about this here feels not only inadequate but, really, demeaning for all involved in the case.

    Proper inquiry is required.
    And it is impossible in current (geo)political and US/Israel current political climate.

    Surreal.

  214. JGarbo says:
    @chris

    No new investigation. Legion labeled fanatics, Russian dupes, etc. The Israel Lobby is as powerful as the oil supplies in ME. No more oil, no more Israel. Palestine will belatedly be recognized and “asked” to share its petro-wealth in the Med with US benefactor. Israelis know their place – assets of CIA – expendables.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  215. @AB_Anonymous

    AB,

    Consider this possibility please?

    The words of a patriotic USS Liberty sailor (average IQ) during the attack, and one who early on recognized a Star of David insignia:

    “The Jews are coming… the hasbara Jews are coming!”

    America is at war, AB, but we’re deceived as to having an ability to know WHO is the real enemy.

    Upon one’s awareness of facts / truth, that’s when the work of dark (high IQ) occult forces tend to get exposed.

    Thank you Mr. P. Giraldi for all the “heads up” warnings!

    Selah.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  216. annamaria says:
    @Ringleader

    “This “Congressional” inquiry will be absolutely pointless (now)”
    Disagree. The greater the exposure of the occupation of the US Congress by Israel-firsters, the better for the world at large.

  217. annamaria says:
    @JGarbo

    Israelis know their place…”
    If only. The US government has been heavily penetrated by Israel-firsters who have been using the US resources for their pleasure, namely, for propping up the tribal toy in the Middle East.

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=dalck_feith_1

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=richard_perle

    The ongoing mass slaughter in the Middle East is the result of the implementation of Clean Break project (Oded Yinon plan for Greater Israel). Israel has been financing and supporting radical jihadis in the Middle East and Israel continues attacking Syrian sovereignty even after their proteges, ISIS, received a mortal blow from the Syrian army: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811226
    The Jews’ tribal hatred towards a much older, nobler and richer civilization of Iran (as compared to Judaism which borrowed heavily from other cultures) pushes the western world toward a major war with the Middle East and Russia. Israel-firsters are not rational and they are not reasonable. They are fanatics. Israel in its present form is an insult to the memory of Holocaust: “Who’s Afraid of Ayelet Shaked? Meet the Secular Jewish Nationalist Who Could Be Israel’s Prime Minister.” This Ayelet Shaked who demanded, “Mothers of all Palestinians must be killed.” Sounds as Nazism. Israel is indeed a Jewish twin of Nazism. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811185

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/mothers-of-all-palestinians-must-be-killed-israeli-mp/comment-page-1/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  218. deltajent says:
    @wayfarer

    Nations/governments/states are legal fictions and do not have souls–only individuals do. Individuals will be judged and receive their eternal rewards on the great Judgment Day based on their actions and the grace of God. The coercive collectives known as governments will prosper or wither in this world according to the actions of those individuals who control them. Their “citizens” (unwilling tax slaves) will prosper or suffer accordingly.

  219. iffen says:
    @peterAUS

    Proper inquiry is required.

    Yes, a Senate Select Committee to investigate the USS Liberty incident. Co-chaired by Sen. McCain and Graham with lead minority member Sen. Cardin.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  220. Vonu says:

    Maybe if it works for the USS Liberty, it might work for the JFK assassination.

  221. annamaria says:
    @iffen

    This is an Iffen-dream committee to stall the investigation in order to protect the sensibilities of the Lobby. The prominence of Tokyo-Rose McCain can’t be overlooked.
    Meanwhile, there is finally a really reasonable solution to the Syrian crisis (considering that Israel continues bombing the sovereign state of Syria AFTER the defeat of ISIS, to compensate for the ISIS’ “problems”)
    Comment section: “We need to send all Syrian refugees to Israel. Also, all of the African economic migrants…” http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/israel-launches-air-strikes-syria-and-assads-waiting-game
    This very reasonable solution would bring the dear “moderate” jihadis directly to their most dedicated protectors, healers, and arms-dealers.
    Your zoicon geniuses broke it, now they own it.

  222. lou e says:

    RE, the Liberty “incident” when you sign up for the wermacht oops I mean USSA armed forces sometimes your orders come from scum running agendas having nothing to do with defending the USSA. I would suggest a perusal of The Secret War Against the Jews by John Loftus and Mark Aarons. If the Izzies wanted to sink that ship it would have been gone in the first pass. What it was doing is what the political prostitutes cannot afford to reveal

  223. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Sloppy slanders aren’t very effective. Mathilde (not Matilda) Krim’s husband was the important Democrat Arthur Krim. Where does your “Mordechai” come from.

    Current day Esther and Mordechai — Javanka!

    Think Peace — Art

  224. Luddite says: • Website

    http://www.jimrogers.com/content/stories/articles/bombing_of_chinese_embassy.html

    There seems to be an understanding, among governments, that actions deemed hostile — especially in military theatres, undertaken by one government against another (friend or faux), can be neutralized with lethal force.

  225. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    To the author of this article, Phil Giraldi.

    Dear Mr. Giraldi:

    You could have made a lot of progress against the Jewish lobby which you so despise if you had written back in about 2007 about how that same Jewish lobby and Israel have hypocritically cooperated with Turkey to deny the Christian Armenian genocide it committed and have also assisted Turkey in preventing the US Congress from recognizing that genocide with a simple resolution.

    Of course, the hypocrisy is that the Jewish lobby and Israel always require the world to recognize the Holocaust and pay for restitution for that Holocaust while they help to deny the genocide of Christian Armenians (and Greeks and Assyrians).

    So you see, sir, people will for their own reasons from time to time either help to cover up the misdeeds of the Jewish lobby and Israel or not cover an important issue an all.

  226. @ChuckOrloski

    You got it all confused. “Dark occult forces” can be exposed from the very beginning based on the date of event, its location(s) and/or coordinates, the names of objects or people pertaining to it, digital description(s) as a whole and by parts, etc. The proven presence of occult (i.e., a proven beyond any doubts presence of digital alignment) excludes the accidental nature of that event. And this is already a lot. As for “Selah” – according to Wikipedia nobody knows what it is (perhaps you do ?!), but one of its 3 numeric explanations has everything to do with this case.

  227. @peterAUS

    “the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment. ”

    First time I’ve heard that. A ship designed for radio-electronic combat would have numerous and powerful RF transmitters and directional antennas separate from those used for signal intelligence gathering. In short, such transmitters would be a detriment to the NSA vessel’s primary mission of picking up low-level HF/VHF/UHF signals due to front-end desensitization. The primary receivers back in 1967 would probably be Nems-Clarke/ Watkins-Johnsons. ( http://watkins-johnson.terryo.org/history/Nems-Clarke-history.htm ) I’m not sure what kind of ECCM is even possible from the standpoint of deliberate jamming of US Navy communications frequencies, which has been confirmed by GTR-5 personnel. Jamming of an HF communications link is pretty simple, especially if you have a tunable transmitter and some sort of modulation device.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Eagle Eye
  228. @annamaria

    Isn’t it a bit silly to talk of “Jews’ tribal hatred towards a much older, nobler, richer civilization” when the ancient, noble and rich civilization(s) and culture(s) were destroyed by Muslim and Mongol invaders? It reminds me of cant about Australian Aborigines having the oldest continuous living culture which, apart from ignoring the pygmies and Khoi San who didn’t leave Africa, implies rather insultingly that they learned nothing much in 50,000 years which included travels along the tropical coasta of South Asia. And how many Jews do you know who take seriously as history the myths of the Hebrew Bible?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  229. @peterAUS

    Thanks for strengthening Commonsense Corner. But, in the absence of a proper public inquiry it wluld be good to have Philip Giraldi firm up his authority and credibility by giving his assessment of that material. (After all most UR readers must want to be able to respect any opinion expressed by its regular contributors like PG, SS and JD).

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  230. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Stalin

    Well….you do have a point.

    I am not a specialist in that area for sure.

    The excerpt gist, still, remains. There was not any intentional jamming of Liberty’s transmissions.

    The physical damage from bombing and strafing, casualties and overall “combat mindset” (polite expression for breakup of usual procedures under fire and having own dead and wounded around….) were a reason for temporary loss of communications.
    We do know that the communication between Liberty and the torpedo boats was attempted by Aldis lamp, not any radio. Points to damaged equipment.

    Again, I do not have (who has?) access to proper sources.

    The fact is that Israel didn’t have good ECCM capability in general at the time.
    It appears that of those they had none was deployed there.

    Airplanes were able to communicate between themselves and their command.
    Torpedo boats were able to communicate between themselves and their command.
    Allowing all that communication while jamming all of Liberty communication…then..by Israel….well……..not likely.

    All I know at the moment makes me agree with Mr. Slade’s material.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  231. utu says:

    Maybe there is a hope. Look at todays Daily Mail

    The conspiracies that won’t go away: Brother of 9/11 victim claim the US orchestrated the atrocity as new study shows it was impossible that the third tower collapsed from fire

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4867124/9-11-conspiracy-theories-persist-16-years-atrocity.html#ixzz4s9YM7cg0

  232. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    strengthening Commonsense Corner

    Ah…you have, I feel, a fundamental misunderstanding of how the “Internet debate world” works.
    This (I think a lady) said it well:
    “….only a very few are interested in truth as can be discerned to the best of one’s ability- The rest just want, like high school, to follow the ‘in crowd’ and belong.”
    I have it plastered on my desktops as a constant reminder.

    Actually, I am impressed by this site so far.
    The owner and moderators do tolerate different opinions.
    Well, at least so far……

    I’ve been on the Internet since its beginning.
    The trend is unmistakable.

    A site starts as a free exchange of ideas->groups form->groups get leaders->leaders, supported by groups jockey for primacy->when primacy is achieved (getting into moderators group) sooner or later (slower or faster), but definitely, the losing group is evicted.->newcomers either get ‘domesticated’ or evicted.
    Always.

    So, we’ll see how it goes here.

    As for this event I also believe there is a fundamental error in finding the truth here.
    People not accepting “conspiracy to sink and murder” are, apparently, supposed to provide evidence here.
    Wrong.
    “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”.
    If we accept that the even IS extraordinary……..well……

    So, yes, your suggestion that author of the article or, IMHO, anybody else, asses that material does make a lot of sense.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  233. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    Israel has never had a more willing sycophant and eager butt-kisser than Lyndon Johnson, but now that his beloved Israel had crushed the Arab armies and air forces, why would LBJ be worried on June 7th?

    Was it because he knew the Liberty would be attacked on June 8th?

    What might the generals have had up their sleeves, had the Liberty gone down with all hands?

    By keeping their ship afloat, the valiant crew of the U.S.S. Liberty defeated treacherous and perfidious Israel, and the devious machinations of American traitors like LBJ, by achieving one of the greatest naval victories of all time.

    Betrayed by their own leaders, the USN heroes of the Liberty nevertheless prevented a successful false flag attack on their ship that might have been blamed on some scapegoat nation as justification for US military action.

    There are no greater American heroes than the crew of the U.S.S. Liberty.

    Certainly, nobody with any knowledge of military affairs has ever accepted Israel’s pathetic excuse of mistaken identity, but then, everyone knows we’re dealing with The World’s Biggest Liars.

    Amazingly, for as much practice as they’ve had, they’re not very good at it, relying mostly on Chutzpah.

    Oy vey! If it weren’t so tragic, it’d be funny.

    But internal White House documents obtained from the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library show that the Israelis’ explanation of how the mistake had occurred was not believed.

    Except for McNamara, most senior administration officials from Secretary of State Dean Rusk on down privately agreed with Johnson’s intelligence adviser, Clark Clifford, who was quoted in minutes of a National Security Council staff meeting as saying it was “inconceivable” that the attack had been a case of mistaken identity.

    The attack “couldn’t be anything else but deliberate,” the NSA’s director, Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter, later told Congress.

    “I don’t think you’ll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental,” Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director, said in an interview.

    New revelations in attack on Navy spy ship
    John Crewdson, Chicago Tribune, Oct. 2, 2007

    • Replies: @Miro23
  234. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    My main problem with the “conspiracy to sink and murder”.

    Why Israelis tried to do that so….wrong?

    I mean, they’d been proven to be competent and ruthless killers.

    Why not:
    Observe the area with land based radar. Track the ship.
    Usual procedure, a couple of guys easy to keep under control.
    Get one plane to exactly pinpoint the ship (Mark I eyeball vs radar…).
    Again, usual procedure, two guys tops in the cabin, easy to keep under control.
    Ideally dispatch a submarine, but Israelis had problems with that. Backup option, torpedo boats.
    Dispatch two torpedo boats and use the plane to vector them on the ship.
    One boat should be enough, other for backup.
    Number of people getting not ideal, but….
    Approach the ship and signal (naval signal lamp, not radio) to “heave-to”.
    Approach at one side to have a length of the ship in sights, get as close as practicable (minimum arming distance etc) , two torpedoes, and launch.
    That should sink her.
    Let’s skip grim work now…..morbid enough……

    Overall, small battalion sized unit which could even train and rehearse together, iron out communications etc day before.
    Easy to keep under, say, Special Forces/intelligence community umbrella.

    Minimum fuss, minimum number of people involved, minimum electronics footprint……

    Instead, do the opposite.

    Just doesn’t make sense.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  235. Miro23 says:
    @Sparkon

    By keeping their ship afloat, the valiant crew of the U.S.S. Liberty defeated treacherous and perfidious Israel, and the devious machinations of American traitors like LBJ, by achieving one of the greatest naval victories of all time.

    When they get the recognition they deserve, and the traitorous events of 9/11 are also taught in schools, then the US will be well on the way to being an independent and respected country again.

    Of course, the Ziocs will do everything they can to stop it.

  236. @peterAUS

    Conspiracy theories nearly always give far too much credit to the supposed conspirators for near flawless conception and execution. In this case I like to remind myself and others of the crass incompetence shown by Israel against the Turkish boat aiming to lift (symbolically anyway) the blockafe of Gaza. All they had to do was disable it by entangling its propellers amd then towing it 50 k offshore. Instead they boarded and killed a lot of people which ruptured their previously acceptable relations with Turkey.

  237. annamaria says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “And how many Jews do you know who take seriously as history the myths of the Hebrew Bible?”
    Intellectual dishonesty is the hallmark of your posts on this forum. Supporting the mythological project of Eretz Israel by any means, while showing a hatred towards the old, noble, and rich Persian (Iranian) civilization, does not require taking seriously the “myths of the Hebrew Bible.” The exhilarating sense of “chosenness” is enough.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Wizard of Oz
  238. @peterAUS

    James Ennis’ “Assault on the Liberty” states that the US Navy communications frequencies were being jammed; whether they were from a broadband dedicated HF jammer or narrow-band HF transmitter thrown into service as an ad-hoc jammer I don’t know. Never got an answer from him as far as I can recall.

    “When the technicians jury-rigged an antenna in order to call for help, radiomen found the frequencies blocked by buzz saw signals from the jets.”

    Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Reveals Failure of C3, James M. Ennis, Defense Electronics, October 1981

    ————

    Former NSA Officials Agree

    David C. Walsh

    The jamming of unique U.S. frequencies during the Liberty incident seems to establish deliberate intent. And in exclusive interviews with this author, several former high-level National Security Agency (NSA) officials agree.

    On 14 February 2003, the “godfather” of the NSA’s Auxiliary General Technical Research program, Oliver Kirby, noted that the Liberty was “my baby.” Within weeks of the calamity, Kirby, deputy director for operations/production, read U.S. signals intelligence (SigInt)-generated transcripts and “staff reports” at NSA’s Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters. They were of Israeli pilots’ conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it “absolutely certain” they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said. Kirby’s is the first public disclosure by a top-level NSA senior of deliberate intent based on personal analyses of SigInt material.

    In an interview on 24 February 2003, retired Air Force Major General John Morrison, the agency’s then-second-in-command (and Kirby’s successor), said he had been informed at the time of Kirby’s findings and endorsed them. Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom said on 3 March 2003 said that, on the strength of such data, the attack’s deliberateness “just wasn’t a disputed issue” within the agency. On 5 March 2003, retired Navy Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, NSA director from 1977-1981, said he “flatly rejected” the Cristol/Israeli thesis. “It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [the Liberty] was not correctly identified.” He said this was based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge. All four were unaware of any agency official at that time or later who dissented from the “deliberate” conclusion

    Naval Institute Proceedings, June 2003

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  239. @Joe Stalin

    “… the attack’s deliberateness ‘just was not a disputed issue’.”

    Thanks Joe Stalin!

    Israel always strikes with impunity and has no limit. They even have a free attack hand in Syria right now!

    They will not be held accountable for the USS Liberty and 9/11 mass murders. Ditto their role in JFK’ murder.

    Unaccountable, President Obama awarded the Netanyahu government with $3.8 billion annually for “defense,” and a ten (10) year expiration date.

    In comment # 241, & with noble optimism, Miro23
    predicts a day of reckoning where “the Ziocs get the recognition they deserve… and the US becomes an independent & respectable country.”

    However, Israel’s most precious public possession is their undisputed control over our 3-branch government system, education included!

    Presently, we have little choice but to compose ourselves, become aware of the evil which has befallen upon the US, brace ourselves, and avoid the disgrace of having to do homage to it.

    Selah.

  240. peterAUS says:

    When the technicians jury-rigged an antenna in order to call for help, radiomen found the frequencies blocked by buzz saw signals from the jets

    Well……
    Getting there.
    A bit too technical, but, let’s roll…..
    Amidst all that carnage and damage on board technicians rigged the an antenna (ONE antenna). Then, the all system (from the antenna to all the parts to the operator and back) wasn’t working. Well, maybe because there was a damage/malfunction on any one/multiple parts of that communication system.
    One.
    We’d like to see diagnostics/checks run on all the system.
    We’d like to know who was trying to operate the system (were they normal operators or those were incapacitated so some other guys tried to use it; their state of mind too at the time…..).
    The same for techs doing the diagnostics/checks.
    Two.
    Frequences blocked by buzz signals.
    Well, what were those frequencies? Could’ve they changed them? Was the all spectrum blocked? True, plenty of details here but easy to know and try to replicate it.
    Three.
    The most important detail here.
    How did they know the jammers were on jets (multiples…..two or more….)?
    What were those jets (Mirages, Mysteres or something else)?
    We know that Israeli ECCM capabilities at the time weren’t great. We believe that both Mirages and Mysteres were diverted from original missions where they didn’t need to have any ECCM capability. Etc.
    Again, “extraordinary claims…extraordinary evidcnce”.

    You know what’s my take on this particular element?
    Bullshit.
    The crew tried to rig something, didn’t work and then they blamed it on…..something.

    They were of Israeli pilots’ conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it “absolutely certain” they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said.

    Slade’s material addresses that.
    Jets realized it, passed the information along their command and control channel and it, apparently, got stuck there. Wasn’t delivered, in time, to parties involved. Procedural fuc&^p, incompetence, negligence…arrogance, as addressed, too, in Slade’s material.

    Now……………there COULD HAVE BEEN another element in all that.
    Whoever worked in such headquarters, centres etc. knows how those things work……….

    You are a part of a team (say, several NCOs/techs, several junior officers, and a couple of senior officers, say, LtCol/Cmdr level with a full Colonel/Captain as a team leader). Just an example….

    The “thing” is going down (exercise or real, doesn’t really matter).
    There comes a moment in time when SOMEBODY (say, junior officer) in the team realizes “oh my God”. Say, your own guys (a recce platoon) are receiving friendly fire. He passes that information to LtCol. LtCol was supposed to organize/prevent that. He knows that his career and maybe even his freedom are on line. He ……..hesitates…………He wants the information checked. And then rechecked hoping it was a mistake, or, hoping it would somehow go away….praying that something will happen and he’ll survive a court marshal. Maybe somebody will do something. Maybe somebody will take the ownership of it somewhere else and he’ll be in clear.
    Time is passing by…..The platoon is still receiving friendly fire.
    Then, no more delays, the fact is clear. The LtCol passes that information to the Colonel. Well…..the Colonel has responsibility too here. He’ll be at least a witness on the court marshal. Never good for getting that star he’s worked so hard so far. He wants the information checked and rechecked. And the time is still ticking on…..that platoon is now really having hell there.
    See the pattern……
    That COULD HAVE HAPPENED in this case too.
    From the pair leader->to his next level (Air Force HQ/center)->next level (Navy HQ/center) at least…….at least TWO places where a delay of that type could’ve been done.
    So, it would be good to see the chain of communication in THAT case.

    But, still, overall, Slade’s material, for me, is the closest to the truth at the moment.

  241. Art says:
    @annamaria

    Intellectual dishonesty is the hallmark of your posts on this forum. Supporting the mythological project of Eretz Israel by any means, while showing a hatred towards the old, noble, and rich Persian (Iranian) civilization, does not require taking seriously the “myths of the Hebrew Bible.” The exhilarating sense of “chosenness” is enough.

    Wiz is a true Soldier of Zion – he has over 4,500 comments – most of them supporting Jews – telling outright lies, half-truths, obviations, distortions, and victimization screeds.

    He should be very confident nowadays – with Javanka on the job in the White House.

    Jared and Ivanka have their Jew hands on everything – foreign and domestic.

    They are the modern-day Esther and Mordecai, twisting the head of the Persian King.

    King Trump loves daughter Ivanka more than anything.

    We do not realize it, but the Jews are dragging us into Old Testament biblical scenario.

    Think Peace — Art

  242. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    One more thing.

    They were of Israeli pilots’ conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it “absolutely certain” they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said.

    Was it in code or in clear?

    If in code, was it along the “US ship, executing….” or “US ship…abort..abort…”?
    If in clear even easier:
    What they were EXACTLY saying? Plus tone, inflection…all of it. From then anyone could deduce was it, again “US ship, executing….” or “US ship…abort..abort…”.
    “Conspiracy to sink and murder” or “a fuc*up of biblical proportions”?

    Should be so simple.
    As even any civilian incident management.

    Too messy and complicated.
    By both sides of this story.

  243. Sparkon says:

    Roger Stone’s The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ includes this distressing passage:

    Ronnie Dugger in hs book The Life and Times of Lyndon Johnson tells the story about LBJ having a long and deep conversation with Austrian ambassador, Dr. Ernst Lemberger. LBJ told Lemberger that he was being visited by God in the White House.

    Dugger: “Didn’t the ambassador think, Johnson asked him, that the Holy Ghost might visit the leader of a very powerful country now that we had nuclear weapons? The ambassador still did not think so, and he told the president that he did not. With that, the president told him that he knew the Holy Ghost [God] was making such visitations, because the Holy Ghost was visiting him.

    “Really!” the ambassador said, displaying amazement in a manner that conveyed acceptance.

    Yes, President Johnson told the ambassador, the Holy Ghost was visiting him around two or three o’clock in the morning at about the time he received reports from Vietnam.”
    [...]
    LBJ was playing with nuclear hellfire and his mental instabilities were well known to people who had initimate dealings with him.

    Maybe that is why Defense Secretary Robert McNamara…developed a curious case of amnesia when it came to the Liberty “incident.” McNamara did not mention the attack in his memoirs or that the Russians had to use the “hotline” with the Americans three times that day. June 8, 1967 was one of the most dangerous and intense days in US military history, yet McNamara would not mention it.

    The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ
    By Roger Stone
    Chapter 21, Sinking Liberty

    (my bold)

  244. “Two.
    Frequences blocked by buzz signals.
    Well, what were those frequencies? Could’ve they changed them? Was the all spectrum blocked? True, plenty of details here but easy to know and try to replicate it.
    Three.
    The most important detail here.
    How did they know the jammers were on jets (multiples…..two or more….)?”

    You raise interesting questions; too bad we are fifty-years past due for a thorough investigation. In defense of the USS Liberty crew, I am pretty sure if rockets are passing through crew compartments, sure as hell as a radio operator I am not going to run to the surveillance compartments and ask them to tune their spectrum analyzers to ascertain if a broadband or narrow-band jammer is being used. I would simply tune to daylight USN HF comm frequencies and determine if two-way information could be accomplished. A proper investigation during that time in 1967 would have answered the question easily (Did any shortwave radio listeners observe a broadband jammer?). BTW, what exactly would you replicate?

    How do you know the jammers were on jets? The nature of RF emissions is a jammer has to be able to generate enough local RF Volts/Meter field strength in order to sufficiently degrade the signal/noise ratio of the particular modulation type in question. That in turn is a question of bandwidth. Morse code (CW) is harder to degrade than an SSB signal. That means that as the jets left and the local V/M of the jammer is observed to decrease on an S-meter or audibly goes down, you KNOW it was the aircraft(s) carrying RF emitters.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Wizard of Oz
  245. @peterAUS

    Indeed complex possibilities rule, especially in times of great stress. And even “deliberately” isn’t so telling when you have to add “yes, but at what level?”.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  246. @annamaria

    You seem to have a couple more IQ points than Art who whom it would be demeaning to answer even if one wasted time reading him, but your use of mere assertion and failure to add anything to your earlier assertion about Jews and Iranian civilization makes me wonder if you are up to elaborating what you mean by “intellectual dishonesty” and justifying your abusive generalisation.

  247. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Stalin

    BTW, what exactly would you replicate?

    The event. All of it. As a part of investigation.
    In essence, REPLY the full scenario of the incident. In phases. Not live ammo of course, but close…
    The closest example would be how police “reply” a murder. With the real suspect/perpetrator taken from jail/prison and back, if necessary.
    US Government could have done it. Played Israelis by own guys/equipment.

    Re the jammers on jets.
    Plausible.

    Still, for me, more plausible is, with all the current info I have, mostly from Slade’s material, that there was no jamming from the jets.

    You appear to be knowledgeable of that particular part of the play.
    O.K.
    Could you please provide (a link would be good enough) info about those jets?
    Type and, most important, ECCM equipment they carried at the time?

    As of now, I know that there were two pairs of certain jets with certain weapons.
    I am also aware of how they attacked the ship.
    Makes sense to me.

    You/ANYONE need to provide the type of the aircraft and the type of ECCM equipment they had.
    It would be good to provide/explain, how they did it then (Slade provided as how they attacked the ship, from cannon to napalm, with corresponding casualties, damage etc.).
    And I’d then, probably, make some sense of it.
    At the moment it doesn’t.
    True, I could be dumb.
    Or, even better, who cares what I understand or not.

    Still…….maybe some other people following this could find that helpful.

    “Extraordinary ….evidence….”.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  248. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Agree.

    I mean, we could write a Clancy type thick book about this.

    From a pilot just realizing what he’s done, reporting all that to his immediate superior element, they processing all, reacting, passing it up their own (AirForce) and “aside” (Navy, Army).
    Those higher levels realizing what’s being done, processing all that and giving orders, reporting “up” and informing “aside” again.
    And all that flow most likely to the highest levels of Israeli military and political establishment at time. And back.
    In the middle of war…….not just exercise went bad. With that technology. With that, apparently, Israeli attitude towards “staff work”.

    How about visualizing, just recently, how the latest US destroyer collision went?Up, down, aside……?
    With today’s technology and in peacetime.

    Compare.
    Draw, obvious, conclusions.

  249. @Sparkon

    Excuse me not leaping to find out more of what an author who wrote a book with that title says on an important historical subject when I haven’t yet read Robert Caro’s renowned biography of LBJ. Have you read what Caro says about the issues raised here about Johnson’s mental stability, that alleged conversation about the Holy Ghost, the USS Liberty, relations with Macnamara etc.? If so, what does he say? If not why are you content to ignore the most authoritative writer about LBJ when you care so much about the possibly malign conection between him and the Liberty (beyond a degree of cover up because Israel had become a power in the ME)?

  250. @Sparkon

    OMG I’ve just followed the link enough to read the assertion that the Israelis attacking USS Liberty and trying to kill “every one of its 294 crew” (or words to that precise effect) without an “explicit order to the IDF to that effect” from President Johnson. C’mon, why rely on nut cases who can write that sort of tripe.

  251. PG…. would you not agree that the most plausible rational motive for Israeli villainy actually becomes implausible on inspection? I refer to the Israelis treating the US spying on their communicatiins as hostile, and dangerous inasmuch as the intention to attack the Golan Heights and the treatment of POWs in Gaza might be disclosed.

    Objection 1. Why would the Israelis assume that the US would not know from other sources than the Liberty? At least why would they be so sure that they would attempt mass murder against Americans?

    Objection 2. Why wouldn’t the Israelis simply engage in comprehensive jamming from shore, ship and plane? Failure at that would be a lot less risky than failure at wiping out 294 Americans.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  252. @Wizard of Oz

    Wiz,

    I trust Mr. Giraldi will (wisely) not respond to your hasbara comment # 257 so I will.

    Israeli mass murder of the USS Liberty crew also served as an unspeakable EXPERIMENT.

    Axiomatic was Israeli foreknowledge that the Liberty’s cry for military help would be denied, and they knew the LBJ administration would not hold them accountable for the mass murder at sea.

    Key to the demonic experiment was to prove how the U.S. “Prestige Press” and TV news channels would reliably “water down” Israel’s murder of American sailors and not provoke a great public outcry for justice.

    Despite the present American Legion’s noble murmur, Israel’s Liberty experiment succeeded mightily and the results hold to this very day. There will be no accountability!

    Such early experimental success (1967) gave Israel great confidence to do the 9/11 mass murders & wage subsequent immoral wars, minus a smigeon of accountability and having to undergo real U.S. investigations and justice being served.

    Nice show, eh?

    (Sigh) Sharing interests with the Wizards of Tel Aviv, you are just a farm hand Wizard of Crawford Ranch. Sad, the trick is on you.

    Selah.

  253. @Wizard of Oz

    Because as I have pointed, you have to generate a sufficient RF field strength to degrade the S/N ratio of the received signal, in this case the received signal of USN command chain. Your statement is vague.
    Do you mean engage in broadband (“comprehensive”) jamming in order to prevent reception of signal intelligence? That would result in communications fratricide on the part of Israeli forces; no antenna, however directional, has zero radiation outside of it’s forward lobe.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  254. Sparkon says:

    USAF intelligence analysts have stated that they have read the transcripts of Israeli communications before, and during the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty. Those documents make it crystal clear–beyond any shadow of doubt–that the attack was intentional.

    The transcript published by the Jerusalem Post bore scant resemblance to the one that in 1967 rolled off the teletype machine behind the sealed vault door at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, where Steve Forslund worked as an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, then the highest-level strategic planning office in the Air Force.

    “The ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it,” Forslund recalled. “The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag.

    “The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors.”

    Forslund said he clearly recalled “the obvious frustration of the controller over the inability of the pilots to sink the target quickly and completely.”

    “He kept insisting the mission had to sink the target, and was frustrated with the pilots’ responses that it didn’t sink.”

    Nor, Forslund said, was he the only member of his unit to have read the transcripts. “Everybody saw these,” said Forslund, now retired after 26 years in the military.

    Forslund’s recollections are supported by those of two other Air Force intelligence specialists, working in widely separate locations, who say they also saw the transcripts of the attacking Israeli pilots’ communications.

    One is James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service’s 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at Son Tra, Vietnam.

    “It was clear that the Israeli aircraft were being vectored directly at USS Liberty,” Gotcher recalled in an e-mail. “Later, around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to ‘complete the job’ and get out of there.”

    Six thousand miles from Omaha, on the Mediterranean island of Crete, Air Force Capt. Richard Block was commanding an intelligence wing of more than 100 analysts and cryptologists monitoring Middle Eastern communications.

    The transcripts Block remembered seeing “were teletypes, way beyond Top Secret. Some of the pilots did not want to attack,” Block said. “The pilots said, ‘This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?’

    “And ground control came back and said, ‘Yes, follow orders.’”

    New revelations in attack on American spy ship
    John Crewdson, Tribune senior correspondent
    Chicago Tribune
    October 2, 2007

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Eagle Eye
  255. lavoisier says: • Website

    The fact that this incident has been buried from history, and that few Americans know anything about it at all, is damning evidence of the perfidy behind the attacks.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  256. peterAUS says:
    @Sparkon

    Well…well…….

    A couple of quotes from a Website (I made interesting parts bold).

    Air Force intelligence analyst Steven Forslund stated in a formal declaration:
    On the day of the attack on the Liberty, I read yellow teletype sheets that spewed from the machines in front of me all day. We obtained our input from a variety of sources including the NSA [Natural Security Agency]. The teletypes were raw translations of Israeli air-to-air and air-to-ground communications between jet aircraft and their ground controller. I read page after page of these transcripts that day as it went on and on. The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target which was identified as American numerous times by the ground controller. Upon arrival, the aircraft specifically identified the target and mentioned the American flag she was flying. There were frequent operational transmissions from the pilots to the ground base describing the strafing runs. The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking. They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace

    Air Force intelligence analyst James Ronald Gotcher, also on duty that day, has testified:
    We received a CRITIC message, informing us that USS Liberty was under attack by Israeli aircraft. Shortly thereafter, we began receiving rough translations of the Israeli air to air and air to ground communications. . It was clear from the explicit statements made by both the aircraft crews and the controllers that the aircraft were flying a planned mission to find and sink USS Liberty. My understanding of what I read led me to conclude that the Israeli pilots were making every effort possible to sink USS Liberty and were very frustrated by their inability to do so. Approximately ten days to two weeks later, we received an internal NSA report, summarizing the Agency’s findings. The report stated in, in no uncertain terms, that the attack was planned in advance and deliberately executed. The mission was to sink USS Liberty. A few days after the report arrived, another message came through directing the document control officer to gather and destroy all copies of both the rough and final intercept transmissions, as well as the subsequently issued report. After the destruction of these documents, I saw nothing further on the subject.

    Navy communications technician Harold Cobbs has testified:
    I arrived in Morocco, July of 1967. I was young and new to the NSG world. While performing my duties on base, I was a witness to the collection and order to destroy ALL traffic regarding the attack on the USS Liberty. Not wanting to believe what I had just seen and heard, I made the comment to comm officer, Lieutenant Rogers, “That’s just not right!” Upon making the above comment I received a severe lecture regarding the following of direct orders.

    Ahu…
    It looks as the rabbit hole just got ………bloody deep………

  257. Eagle Eye says:
    @Sparkon

    The transcript [of radio communications] … that in 1967 rolled off the teletype machine …

    So the transcript just “rolls of the teletype machine.”

    How many U.S. military or NSA personnel were fluent in Israeli Hebrew in 1967?

    Since this was obviously a crucial event at the time, the whole sequence of communications would have been the subject of multiple internal investigations in the wake of the incident. Where are the original untranslated transcripts in Hebrew? How exactly are they phrased?

    • Replies: @Art
  258. peterAUS says:

    Where are the original untranslated transcripts in Hebrew?

    Well, maybe

    A few days after the report arrived, another message came through directing the document control officer to gather and destroy all copies of both the rough and final intercept transmissions, as well as the subsequently issued report. After the destruction of these documents, I saw nothing further on the subject.

    and

    I was a witness to the collection and order to destroy ALL traffic regarding the attack on the USS Liberty

    answer that question.

    And if those three guys I’ve found on Internet are telling the truth…….
    And I found them just in 5 minutes, after Googling “Forslund Liberty”,was just checking on “Sparkon” quote at #262.
    Something is just not right.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Eagle Eye
    , @Eagle Eye
  259. Art says:
    @Eagle Eye

    Where are the original untranslated transcripts in Hebrew? How exactly are they phrased?

    “If the gloves do not fit – you cannot convict!” Simpson was guilty – so too are the Jews guilty of the USS Liberty attack.

    You hasbara losers can post a million billion comments – but the truth comes out – 9/11 is next – the “six million lie” is to follow.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @iffen
  260. iffen says:
    @Art

    next – the “six million lie” is to follow.

    Holocaust denial? Say it ain’t so, Arts.

  261. Art says:

    next – the “six million lie” is to follow.

    Holocaust denial? Say it ain’t so, Arts.

    Sorry – I polled all 88 of my IQ’s – it was 88 to zero – the six million is a lie!

    Got to go with my guys.

    Think Peace — Art

  262. Ron Unz says:
    @peterAUS

    And if those three guys I’ve found on Internet are telling the truth…….
    And I found them just in 5 minutes, after Googling “Forslund Liberty”,was just checking on “Sparkon” quote at #262.
    Something is just not right.

    Well, I don’t know anything about those particular individuals on the Internet, and whether or not their personal claims are credible. But it wouldn’t totally surprise me.

    Back a few years ago, there was a major Chicago Tribune article by a couple of their top journalists finally “breaking the MSM blockade” on the story, with a number of quoted sources. Also, I think there’s a public NSA report that says the same thing. Naturally, none of this has ever been significantly disseminated by our totally corrupt and dishonest MSM so virtually no American is aware of it.

    But my personal source of information anyway satisfies me. My old friend Bill Odom was the three star general who ran the NSA for Ronald Reagan, and he was certainly aware of the NSA intercepts 100% proving that the Israeli attack was deliberate. Indeed, as I’ve mentioned a couple of times before, he shrewdly circumvented the political obstacles by arranging for the relevant NSA intercepts to be used as standard material in the NSA training exercises for entering officers:

    http://www.unz.com/article/what-really-happened-in-san-bernardino/#comment-1264968

    To the extent that this shocking story has been completely covered up for fifty years by almost the entire American MSM, aided and abetted by numerous “useful idiots,” you should ask yourself what *else* they might be covering up…

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Eagle Eye
  263. The histrionics on threads like this by Israel-firsters, hasbara trolls and associated eccentrics really are a sight to behold.

    “The truth hurts” has never been truer.

  264. peterAUS says:
    @Ron Unz

    Back a few years ago, there was a major Chicago Tribune article by a couple of their top journalists finally “breaking the MSM blockade” on the story, with a number of quoted sources. Also, I think there’s a public NSA report that says the same thing.

    This one :
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.html

    Now, this won’t make me much popular around, but………..

    I’ve gone through all that, really damning material and, well, I am not positive it was “conspiracy to sink and murder”.
    When I say that I mean conspiracy of the higher echelons of Israeli political and military leadership at the time.

    The only statement I’ve found that could point to that is:

    Steve Forslund, an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha

    “The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors.”

    That last part.

    The next level is, mistake was made, it was recognized, and decision, on the fly, was made to cover the crime.
    This one:
    James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service’s 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at Son Tra, Vietnam
    around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to ‘complete the job’ and get out of there.”

    For me, the rest points to, again, “mistake, arrogance, criminal negligence and total lack of professionalism”.

    I’ll try to explain.

    Jet pilots, apparently, recognized the ship as US, but controllers/superiors kept ordering them to keep attacking because they simply didn’t trust pilots’ observation/judgement.
    “US flag you say, so what….Egyptians simply put the flag there”.
    “Looks as US ship…..you are wrong, it isn’t…obey the order”.

    Also, less likely, controllers/headquarters just didn’t care. That element, “didn’t care”, isn’t that implausible as it sounds. The war was going on for 4th day now. The pilots, controllers and headquarters were, IMHO, exhausted, emotionally spent, brutalized and desensitized.What is a crew of a US ship on top of thousands of dead and crippled all around in the last couple of days……….Own Israeli casualties were (yes, Wikipedia…) 776–983 killed and 4,517 wounded.

    So, I guess that “deliberate” can be taken on a couple of levels.

    Conspiracy to sink and murder.
    Cover own mistake.
    Just don’t care.

    Anyway, this is something.
    Hell, if I’d known all this before I wouldn’t have even started posting in this thread.
    This here is nothing compared to all that material already available on Internet (plus some books). Including official documents.

    Cover-up, itself, IS scary.
    Now, if one isn’t an American, he/she could think:”You know, if they can pull this against their own people…imagine what they can do to us”.

    Not good.

    Anyway, I am out of this topic here.
    Will try, in my own time, to dig more, especially related to Steve Forslund and James Gotcher stuff.

    • Replies: @iffen
  265. iffen says:
    @peterAUS

    Will try, in my own time, to dig more

    The USS Liberty “incident” is a favorite here at Unz. Please come back and share your results with us as good information is always welcomed by some of us. The 2nd to last time this incident floated to the surface here, I did a little research myself. I found the obituary of the “Jewish Officer” from the USS Liberty who “cried” when he saw the Star of David on the attacking planes. Turns out he was a Deacon in a Pentecostal Church in Virginia for most of his life. Needless to say he was not the same witness who described planes as having no identifying markings.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @peterAUS
  266. @Joe Stalin

    Your answer is a bit vague too inasmuch as the excessive undirected radiatiiin from jamming focusses on one ship isn’t necessarily going to be harmful to the jamming side. And of course the Israelis would have been able to use landlines and encryption which sould at least cause sufficient delay. That last actually goes close to sinking the protection of secrecy for the Golan Heights attack as a motive for attacking the Liberty.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  267. @iffen

    I have just thought, and written, of the reasons why the Israelis wouldn’t have been cincerned about the US discovering that they were about to take the Golan Heights – assuming it hadn’t been squared with the US anyway. Landlines and encryption are the answer. And if one assumes that a lot of radio traffic near the Golan Heights might have been detected, so what? How long is it going to take for that to be turned into definite knowledge of Israeli plans? Days… if ever. If the US was interested it could have sent U2s flying over Israel/Palestine.

  268. @Wizard of Oz

    So your contention is that Israel could set up a broadband (HF, VHF, UHF frequencies that would constitute the communications frequencies of the IDF) jamming network, from either Israel or Sinai, generate enough ERP in the direction of the USS Liberty to kill any signal intelligence, and this is not “necessarily” going to be harmful to Command, Communications and Control (C3) of the IDF.

    Wow. What an administrative undertaking, even if you had the hardware at hand, to set up such a communications denial network, in the space of a few hours.

    As compared to just ordering the AF and Navy to kill it.

  269. Eagle Eye says:
    @Joe Stalin

    “the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment. ”

    The short answer is that jamming aims at a RECEIVER not at a transmitter. The aim is to overwhelm the targeted transmitter’s signal as seen by the receiver.

    To jam a receiver, a jamming signal must be emitted to cover the opponent’s transmission. Since the strength of radio signals decreases with the square of the distance from the respective transmitters (original signal and jamming signal), it is advantageous to place the jamming transmitter close to the targeted receiver. If the opponent’s transmitter is 100 miles from the receiver, then a jamming signal of equal strength emitted from 50 miles away will appear 4 times as strong as the opponent’s transmitter to the opponent’s receiver, so the opponent’s desired signal is effectively jammed.

    What does this mean? It would have been relatively easy to jam INCOMING signals that the USS Liberty would try to receive from U.S. naval vessels etc. This would still leave the USS Liberty the ability to transmit an SOS-type signal blindly (without being able to hear any responses).

    The USS Liberty would have been in routine contacts with land-based NSA stations in Egypt or elsewhere in the Eastern Mediterranean, as well as with military stations such as U.S. Navy units.

    The idea that transmitting antennas on the Libery would have been completely destroyed etc. sounds dubious. We are basically talking about long wires strung along the deck of the Liberty. Also, there would be several sets of antennas for different wavelengths, directionality etc. Lastly, it is quite easy to jury-rig a simple antenna within 20 minutes. Of course, the “fog of war” can complicate even simple operations.

    BOTTOM LINE: the USS Liberty probably remained able to transmit calls for help but MAY have been handicapped in receiving responses on standard frequencies. These handicaps were probably overcome within 15-30 minutes by trying different frequencies etc. that could not be comprehensively jammed.

    • Replies: @Art
  270. Eagle Eye says:
    @Ron Unz

    To the extent that this shocking story has been completely covered up for fifty years by almost the entire American MSM, aided and abetted by numerous “useful idiots,” you should ask yourself what *else* they might be covering up…

    As Mr. Unz has been pointing out for a long time, the BIG story here is a U.S. story – what ELSE have the U.S. media, in cahoots with the Deep State, been covering up over the past 50 years? It is an AMERICAN story.

    Re USS Liberty, it has long been clear clear that Israel did bomb and try to sink the USS Liberty. There is an ongoing debate about what the Israelis THOUGHT they were accomplishing (and, separately, what they may in fact have accomplished in tactical terms).

    Three basic scenarios have been suggested: (1) Israel saw the USS Liberty’s operations as an impediment to its war objectives (e.g. Golan, Sinai) and reluctantly but intentionally decided to attack a known U.S. vessel; (2) there was some kind of error along the line, e.g. the vessel was thought to be Egyptian flying a false flag; or (3) Israeli leadership or parts of it (military) succumbed to hubris, and decided to avail themselves of the opportunity e.g. to retaliate for U.S. interference in the Suez crisis.

    What is not in doubt is that over 50 years, the U.S. government opted to misrepresent, and the U.S. media opted to mis-report, what was actually known to the NSA, U.S. Navy and entire U.S. government, and what was readily discoverable to the media with a modicum of effort. Indeed, one suspects that the story was widely whispered about throughout Washington at the time given the large number of people who must have been in the know and the highly emotional undertones of the story.

  271. Eagle Eye says:
    @peterAUS

    This does on the face of it answer the original question – where are the original Hebrew transcripts or re recordings?

    However, the idea that the U.S. had full or even adequate intercepts of ground-to-air and air-to-air communications strikes me as slightly doubtful. Technically, it would have been possible, but it was not a trivial undertaking given where the incident happened (on the Mediterranean, off the coast of Sinai).

    Somewhat ironically, if there were such intercepts, they most likely came from the USS Liberty itself, thus proving the danger an signals intelligence ship can pose to military operations.

    Perhaps the Israelis suspected or even knew that intelligence gathered by the Liberty was filtering through to Cairo or Moscow, in addition to causing problems for Israel in DC.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  272. Eagle Eye says:
    @peterAUS

    In the earlier thread referenced by Mr. Unz above, Mr. Unz suggested the following explanation which seems to make eminent sense (emphasis added):

    The NSA naturally has all the [raw] radio intercepts between the Israeli pilots and their military commanders, repeatedly ordering them to destroy the U.S.S. Liberty and leave no survivors (I suspect there’s actually a chance that their failure was partly due to their considerable reluctance to follow such seemingly astonishing orders). Since those radio intercepts were presumably swept up along with everything in the entire region, it presumably took them at least a few weeks to separate those out and get them translated from the Hebrew.

    There is a huge difference between intercepting and tape-recording raw transmissions, and disentangling and analyzing signals, voices, etc. in those transmissions, followed by the challenging process of translating pilot jargon from Hebrew – a language little spoken outside Israel then. A time estimate of several weeks sounds about right.

    Given that there were NSA dead, the agency would have found ways to disregard presidential orders to destroy all evidence.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  273. Art says:
    @Eagle Eye

    The short answer is that jamming aims at a RECEIVER not at a transmitter. The aim is to overwhelm the targeted transmitter’s signal as seen by the receiver.

    Oh ya — change the subject from shooting up life boats – to a broad discussion of signal jamming — how clever of these loser hasbara Jews.

    The Jews are so clever, that payback can never happen to them. When the old lies fail, they always have a new set of lies on the ready.

    If you do not like their new lies, they will attack you – call you bad names. They will always find a way to be the victim again. (Jews are always top victim.)

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Problem for these losers — “you cannot lie to everyone all the time.”

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  274. peterAUS says:
    @Eagle Eye

    However, the idea that the U.S. had full or even adequate intercepts of ground-to-air and air-to-air communications strikes me as slightly doubtful.

    Well, what slightly puzzles me is sort of, I haven’t seen, so far, a REPLAY of all that anywhere.

    I am NOT an expert in that particular area. You know, particulars of that hardware, frequencies, media at time/place, procedures, let alone physical layout of all the assets at the time.

    I’ll use an example from similar subject.
    Tactics, for example.

    A battle happened.
    If one wants to understand that battle, well, that one has to, essentially, REPLAY it a lot of times to really get it. Even walk the battlefield. Move around it, even, in similar gear.
    Good example of that is the book “Not mentioned in dispatches” about a particular battle in Falklands war.

    So, in this particular case, say, this, “jamming” thing.
    If we want to do it right I mean, not having a pub conversation.

    Well, where is a reconstructed map of the event, for example, just for starters.
    Ship…jammers……detailed data about the jammers, operators..the works.
    That’s how, say, land forces guys reconstruct a battle. Create a map first with all the players.
    And then move the pieces. And again, and again…

    So, has anyone in all these years replayed the event re “jamming” wise?
    I could probably easily replay the boat attack if I want. Would require a lot of additional digging and a lot of work, but, can be done. Personally, haven’t been looking for it much, but what I’ve found recently isn’t much.
    THAT makes me wonder a bit.

    Some ‘flyboy” can easily reply air attack.

    As I mentioned before it’s standard police procedure when putting a murder case together.
    So, where is the similar for this?
    That Slade’s material is the closest I’ve found, and, well…..not that great really. Almost as preamble/outline.

  275. peterAUS says:
    @Eagle Eye

    Ah….

    There is a huge difference between intercepting and tape-recording raw transmissions, and disentangling and analyzing signals, voices, etc. in those transmissions, followed by the challenging process of translating pilot jargon from Hebrew – a language little spoken outside Israel then. A time estimate of several weeks sounds about right.

    Could you expand on this please?

    Reason:
    The most damning for Israel are two statements I’ve found (so far….) on Internet.
    They were, apparently, listening in REAL TIME. Or, better, having transcripts in real time (so, with a bit of delay, of course).
    From one of my posts above here they are, for clarity:

    Steve Forslund, an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha

    “The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors.”

    And

    James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service’s 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at Son Tra, Vietnam

    “around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to ‘complete the job’ and get out of there.”

    So, the question for you then, would be: what’s your take on these statements?

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  276. Eagle Eye says:
    @Art

    Re-read the thread above, and my other comments under this post.

    Check if you like – I have pointed out for the longest time (including under previous stories on this sad incident) that the U.S. did have virtually real-time knowledge of the fact that the USS Liberty was attacked by Israeli forces, in part through signals intelligence complemented by humint from Israel and Egypt.

    There is no need, however, to over-egg the pudding by claiming to have word-for-word transcripts of communications with and among the pilots. These claims strike me as exaggeration and back-filling. Getting such intercepts and transcripts is not as easy as it sounds since the Israelis will have taken at least basic steps to avoid easy interception of their communications. Also, how many U.S. analysts had functional Hebrew back then? If the NSA has the original Hebrew, let’s see them. Linguistic and historical experts can easily check them for consistency with Israeli military usage at the time. If the NSA mysteriously lost the original transcripts, then we are looking at government types asking us to “trust us.”

    Remember the Israelis were well aware that the U.S. Navy was nearby and would be trying to listen in.

    Again, the absence of transcripts of pilot communications does not mean that Israel did not attack the USS Liberty.

  277. peterAUS says:

    Apologies for sounding formal.

    My question.
    Q:So, the question for you then, would be: what’s your take on these statements?

    I guess your answer is:
    A:These claims strike me as exaggeration and back-filling. Getting such intercepts and transcripts is not as easy as it sounds.

    Then, it looks, to me, as those two statements, then, could be taken as not reliable.
    Especially when discussing the magnitude of the crime.

    Again, the absence of transcripts of pilot communications does not mean that Israel did not attack the USS Liberty.

    Well….of course. I am, at this stage, just trying to figure out some details.
    The most important, which one:
    “Conspiracy to sink and murder” by Israeli leadership at the time.
    “Grave mistake and attempt to cover it by following through the mistake” by certain elements of Israeli CiC then and there.
    “Grave mistake caused by institutional arrogance, lack of professionalism and incompetence, with tons of who cares attitude, including certain callousness”.
    “Grave mistake only, caused by institutional arrogance, lack of professionalism and incompetence”.
    And, of course, put ‘fog of war” everywhere with pinch of men and material exhaustion.

    No wonder one can spend a lifetime trying to untangle all this now.

    A very efficient cover-up indeed.

  278. Eagle Eye says:
    @peterAUS

    To respond to the direct questions: it sounds to me as if both Forslund and Gotcher are reporting third-hand information.

    Forslund seems to say that he was part of the military hierarchy that would have received some information. However, it could well be that he is in retrospect attributing to the ground station statements that he believes they would have said in light of what transpired later. There is no indication that Forslund himself heard the communications or understands Hebrew.

    Gotcher seems to have been in far-away Vietnam and probably heard about the incident through the grapevine, without authorization. Again, one suspects that alleged statements were attributed to the ground station based on what later transpired. Again, there is no indication that Gotcher himself heard or saw the communications himself, or that he understands Hebrew.

    As Mr. Unz has pointed out (and I fully agree), even if there were solid intercept recordings of various transmissions, getting these turned into decent, usable transcripts for a “post-mortem” would have taken at least days if not weeks.

    If anyone wants to argue about what was actually said, I want to SEE what was actually said. If the records don’t exist, third-hand hearsay from people with a stake in the matter is merely a distraction.

  279. Eagle Eye says:
    @peterAUS

    Good observations about organizational behavior.

    Re jamming, as detailed in #277, the USS Liberty could certainly have TRANSMITTED an alert “blind” despite the fact that their RECEIVERS were jammed. But it would not be surprising if the radiomen failed to consider this in the heat of the moment. They did, of course, continue trying valiantly and actually managed to establish two-way communications with the U.S. Navy, so ultimately the attempted jamming served only to delay.

    Alternative scenario: as mentioned in a previous post, one should consider the possibility that the Israelis knew or strongly suspected something that objectively made the USS Liberty a dire threat to Israel at that particular time. In other words, perhaps they did not over-react or suddenly go crazy, but acted with cold rationality based on knowledge (or suspicions) that are still classified.

    Possibilities include information being passed to Egypt (perhaps through spies within the U.S. intelligence or military services), or perhaps LBJ wanting to enter yet another war in a manner that Israel considered deleterious.

  280. peterAUS says:
    @iffen

    Tried to find some more info around re that particular element.
    This link is full of decent information, before it, as always, descends into multiple quote/reply and name calling. Amazing how people slip into that so easily.
    So, I gave up at around page 7.

    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/9846-the-uss-liberty-incident/

    Picked up something within first couple of pages:

    This statement by Stephen Forslund (US Air Force intelligence analyst) is clear enough: “The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target, which was identified as American numerous times by the ground controller. The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking. They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace.”

    He is contradicted by two of the three NSA Hebrew linguists who we actually know heard the Israelis (live or on tape).

    Richard W. Hickman was an NSA linguist who served aboard the USNS Jose Valdez and was friends with people on the Liberty. He translated the NSA intercepts and had briefed the Director of the National Security Agency Lieutenant General Marshal S. Carter on them at NSA headquarters in June 1967. He told Judge Cristol the following:
    So, because of the fact that I lost a good friend in Al and of course NAVSECGRU shipmates and other wounded civilians – I was ready to blame the Israelis, along with everyone else who was angry. But, based on what I heard, both from eyewitnesses and the tapes, my conclusion has always been that it was a case of mistaken identity.

    In 1980 he was interviewed by William Gerhart, Henry Millington, Hank Schorreck and Robert Farley for a NSA 1981 report on the incident and had said basically the same thing based on what he head the Israelis were confused.

    Dr. Marvin Nowicki (a friend of Hickman’s) was the US Navy supervisor on the EC-121 aircraft who heard the actual Israel Air Force radio transmissions, in Hebrew, on 8 June 1967 and thereafter listened to the tapes in Hebrew (Nowicki was an NSA/Navy trained Hebrew linguist). He also concluded based on what he heard the attack was accidental. He told James Bamford
    “As you know, Jim Ennes and members of the Liberty crew are on record stating the ship was deliberately attacked by the Israelis. I think otherwise. I have first hand information, which I am sharing with you. I was present on that day, along with members of an aircrew in a COMFAIRAIRRECONRON TWO (VQ-2) EC-121M aircraft flying some 15,000 feet above the incident. As I recall, we recorded most, if not all, of the attack. Further, our intercepts, never before made public, showed the attack to be an accident on the part of the Israelis.”

    So, there it is………
    I guess that’s it.

    • Replies: @iffen
  281. iffen says:
    @peterAUS

    Thanks. There are not that many unanswered questions concerning the incident. The only one that I have is whether or not the intelligence community deliberately diverted the Navy communications. My guess would be yes, but I don’t see how one could ever get at the facts.

    A more interesting question is why some people keep focusing on the Liberty incident.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  282. Sparkon says:

    I can tell you that, far from taking a “a few weeks” to get a transcript in a critical situation like this, it was more like a few hours before the first relatively complete and accurate translations were available, while some other information and reports were sent “in near real-time.”

    I know because that was my job. During this time, I was serving as an analyst for Air Force Security Service, and was also qualified as a linguist.

    The guys chosen for airborne were at the top of the class of an already highly select group. We on the ground kept close tabs on these airmen while they were flying their missions.

    In his 2003 lawsuit, Cristol cites Dr. Marvin E. Nowicki, who, as a U.S. Navy chief petty officer on an airborne collection platform the day of the attack, recorded voice transmissions of the Israeli attackers. Nowicki’s platform was a Navy EC-121 flying out of Air Force Security Service station USA-512J, a joint (“J”) station operated with the Navy.

    According to the NSA, a Navy EC-121 had collected the transmissions. Follow-up NSA reports, however, state that the released transmissions were recorded by an airborne collection platform flying out of station USA-556. Because USA-556 was not a joint station, the airborne platform simply could not have been a Navy EC-121. Nowicki’s recordings are still at-large.

    A 1981 history report re-released with the NSA recordings shows two routes for airborne collection platforms during the 1967 Six-Day War. One route was for Navy EC-121s, the other for Air Force C-130s. Besides operating control, there is a key difference between the EC-121 and the C-130. The former recorded and stored intercepts, which were analyzed after landing. C-130s, on the other hand, transmitted real-time to Air Force Security Service stations around the world.

    Some former Air Force intelligence analysts said they read the complete real-time transmissions of an Air Force platform (this must have been USA-556, unless yet a third platform recorded the attack). Not only did the transmissions prove beyond a doubt that the attack was deliberate, but the analysts received a follow-up NSA report explicitly stating such. Yet, they later were ordered to destroy all copies.

    https://www.washingtonreport.me/2006-may-june/uss-liberty-and-the-nsa-one-deceit-too-many.html

    An Israeli military court of inquiry later acknowledged that their naval headquarters knew at least three hours before the attack that the odd-looking ship 13 miles off the Sinai Peninsula, sprouting more than 40 antennas capable of receiving every kind of radio transmission, was “an electromagnetic audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy,” a floating electronic vacuum cleaner.

    The Israeli inquiry later concluded that that information had simply gotten lost.

    Yeah, right. The Liberty information was “lost” in the same way that two tapes recorded by Nowicki and Prostinak have gotten lost:

    One tape, designated A1104/A-02, begins at 2:29 p.m. local time, just after the Liberty was hit by the torpedo. Prostinak said there was a preceding tape, A1104/A-01.

    That tape likely would have recorded much of the attack, which began with the air assault at 1:56 p.m. Prostinak said a second tape, which preceded one beginning at 3:07 p.m., made by another linguist aboard the same plane, also appeared to be missing.

    As soon as the EC-121 landed at its base in Athens, Prostinak said, all the tapes were rushed to an NSA facility at the Athens airport where Hebrew translators were standing by.
    [...]
    One set of transcripts apparently survived in the archives of the U.S. Army’s intelligence school, then located at Ft. Holabird in Maryland.

    W. Patrick Lang, a retired Army colonel who spent eight years as chief of Middle East intelligence for the Defense Intelligence Agency, said the transcripts were used as “course material” in an advanced class for intelligence officers on the clandestine interception of voice transmissions.

    “The flight leader spoke to his base to report that he had the ship in view, that it was the same ship that he had been briefed on and that it was clearly marked with the U.S. flag,” Lang recalled in an e-mail.

    “The flight commander was reluctant,” Lang said in a subsequent interview. “That was very clear. He didn’t want to do this. He asked them a couple of times, ‘Do you really want me to do this?’ I’ve remembered it ever since. It was very striking. I’ve been harboring this memory for all these years.”

    –New revelations in attack on American spy ship, John Crewdson, Chicago Tribune, Oct. 2, 2007

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  283. peterAUS says:
    @iffen

    The only one that I have is whether or not the intelligence community deliberately diverted the Navy communications. My guess would be yes, but I don’t see how one could ever get at the facts.

    Agree.
    The reason could be just “we are more important than you” (turf battle), even some ego issue of some high placed individual. But, for the crux of the event, not important, IMHO.

    A more interesting question is why some people keep focusing on the Liberty incident.

    That, well…..true.
    Discussing that, here, could be an exhausting exercise.

    But, does make a lot of sense, actually.
    Not about the incident itself so much. I guess we, until some new evidence comes in, could be rather clear as what and why happened.

    But, the COVER-UP is totally different, and much more important issue.

    Again, as some people already have said:if PTBs have been able to cover up this, what else they have covered up?
    And, the sheer power to execute it. And the helplessness of holoi poloi to uncover it. Not cannon fodder on the ship, but even members of top echelon of military and intelligence community.

    THAT is important.

    I, personally, believe that poking at this, relentlessly, could help there.
    At least: “You can pull it of, yes, but you shall not be smug about it”.
    Or “You do have power, but we see it, we are not stupid”.
    And, well, one thing at the time. This, that…bits and pieces of stuff like this can create a critical mass in public consciousnesses.
    Didn’t Trump victory show that people do not like to be taken for fools?
    Anyway…..

    • Replies: @iffen
  284. iffen says:
    @peterAUS

    But, for the crux of the event, not important, IMHO.

    Well, if the event is the attack on the Liberty then it would not have happen had the Navy been competent at communicating with and among ships.

    I don’t see any cover-up. I see the normal lack of interest in examining the circumstances of warfare and the evaluation of the military’s actions, inactions and competency and the general reluctance to hold anyone responsible in the government in general and the military in particular for adverse events.

    Did we get that report on the Tomahawk missile attack in Syria yet, or did I just miss it?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  285. RonaldB says:
    @Erebus

    Actually, Israel was doing just fine on its own in the 6-day war. Assuming your scenario, which I don’t think is at all supported by any evidence or logic, bringing in the US would take away the independence of Israel to decide what to do with the conquered territories. Why would Israel want to make itself directly answerable to a foreign country when not strictly necessary?

    And the reply that Israel would have been confident of its control over US policy wouldn’t hold water. Eisenhower forced Israel, Britain, and France to withdraw from the Sinai in 1956.

    I support an open inquiry into the Liberty incident, but most of the alternatives presented here just don’t hold water.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  286. peterAUS says:
    @iffen

    Well, if the event is the attack on the Liberty then it would not have happen had the Navy been competent at communicating with and among ships.

    You mean U.S. Navy?
    An interesting point.

    I don’t see any cover-up

    Don’t know what to say, really.

    • Replies: @Castellio
  287. Eagle Eye says:
    @Sparkon

    Interesting info, thanks.

    Was struck by this snippet:

    A 1981 history report re-released with the NSA recordings shows two routes for airborne collection platforms during the 1967 Six-Day War.

    So the transcripts were published in 1981? Are they in the Library of Congress? Surely somebody must have copies?

    What is striking is that Israel did deal with the matter after a fashion, admitted that they had effected the attack, paid some compensation, and conducted public (and no doubt also internal) inquiries. Not entirely surprisingly, the public conclusion was that the attack was a case of mistaken identity, but nobody denies that the attack occurred.

    By contrast, in the U.S. we have now had five decades of people telling us in some detail about what is in the much-vaunted transcripts, tantalizing moments of people telling us they heard the communications live on the air, etc., but the actual transcripts have never been seen. One suspects that 50 years on, the U.S. is still hiding SOMETHING that remains embarrassing to U.S. players in 2017.

    Could we be looking at a huge charade where the ongoing talk about tapes and transcripts is merely part of an ongoing cover-up/misdirection to hide something MORE embarrassing on the U.S. side of this sad incident?

  288. Eagle Eye says:
    @RonaldB

    Actually, Israel was doing just fine on its own in the 6-day war. Assuming your scenario, which I don’t think is at all supported by any evidence or logic, bringing in the US would take away the independence of Israel to decide what to do with the conquered territories. Why would Israel want to make itself directly answerable to a foreign country when not strictly necessary?

    This could be the answer to the conundrum: perhaps LBJ wanted to muscle in on Israel’s successful war effort for his own domestic purposes (1968 elections, etc), perhaps by posing as peacemaker etc. On a winning streak and with memories of the 1956 Suez crisis still fresh, Israel may NOT have wanted to share the laurels of its daring blitzkrieg with LBJ, and would not have wanted to become the South Vietnam in the relationship. Remember what happened to Ngo Dinh Diem – JFK had him offed in 1963, but JFK also found himself ferried across the Styx just weeks later.

    This scenario would certainly explain the perplexing Israeli decision to attack a de facto ally with no perceptible benefit to itself.

    Another alternative mentioned before is that Israel knew or had strong reason to believe that USS Liberty intelligence product was finding its way to Egyptian or Syrian military leaders.

  289. Erebus says:

    Why would Israel want to make itself directly answerable to a foreign country when not strictly necessary?

    If you read the post you’re replying to, you would have read that I suggested a co-conspiracy. That means the US was already “in”, for its own purposes, not necessarily having anything to do with Israel’s.

    In any case, that post has been long superseded by more interesting posts.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  290. Castellio says:
    @peterAUS

    “Don’t know what to say, really.”

    Own up to having a long conversation with a bright person who made a show of sharing your concerns, but was only pretending to listen.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @iffen
  291. Eagle Eye says:
    @Erebus

    The transcripts Block remembered seeing “were teletypes, way beyond Top Secret.

    So the top dog on Crete “saw” teletypes, “way beyond Top Secret.” Nice airport novel scene, but: where did the teletypes originate? Obviously NOT in Crete but at some other facility, perhaps in Egypt.

    Also, why do the teletypes already have a “way beyond Top Secret” classification? Somebody high-up must have decided that the contents/operation described warranted this.

    This is either pure fiction (back-filling), or we are talking at least a day after the incident by which time Washington had had a chance to get involved and we are no longer talking about immediate tactical information.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Erebus
  292. peterAUS says:
    @Castellio

    Agree.

    Just a common sociopath or…..something more interesting for this topic?

  293. peterAUS says:
    @Eagle Eye

    So, would you agree that the reason for the incident was:
    A mistake caused, most likely, by
    -institutional arrogance
    -lack of professionalism
    -incompetence
    -a certain level of exhaustion in command and control centers; probably even some callousness towards “Yanks” in some parts of the system
    -and, of course – fog of war”

    In essence, a mistake and not a conspiracy?

    Just the incident itself, not the cover-up later on.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  294. Erebus says:
    @Eagle Eye

    Umm, was this reply intended for me?

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  295. iffen says:
    @Castellio

    I must not be the bright person because I am befuddled by these comments from both of you.

  296. peterAUS says:

    Discussion fizzled out, till next time.
    Emotional needs fulfilled. Session completed.

    For those couple into “digging in” no matter what: doesn’t “conspiracy to sink and murder” hinge on just one thing?
    Listening, in real time, pilots-controllers communication.
    Hebrew, real time, as it was going down.

    If so, shouldn’t those guys who said they were quite sure it was “conspiracy….” write down that communication? As best as they can recollect. In Hebrew, of course, so we can see it. And then, if we wish, we find somebody to translate if for us.
    In fact, shouldn’t they have done it as soon as the order to destroy all the tapes/document came? Would’ve been a smart move and we’ve been told they were smart guys.

    There is nothing special here.
    That’s how cops figure out conspiracy to commit murder by common criminals.
    “You were there, you heard him talking”? “What did he say?””Write it down”. Then cross-examination…the works….

  297. Eagle Eye says:
    @Erebus

    Reply could have been slotted more appropriately, sorry.

  298. Eagle Eye says:
    @peterAUS

    Based on what we know – especially the fact, as I have stated endlessly, that the U.S. knew what was happening in virtually real time, and Israel was aware of this fact, the most likely explanations (not necessarily in order of likelihood) would seem to be:

    (1) Mistake at some level in Israel. This would have to be a relatively high level because both naval and air attacks were involved.

    (2) Intentional but desperate/reluctant Israeli action to ward off some perceived major danger, e.g. they found out USS Liberty intelligence was finding its way to Egypt/Syria. A similar scenario would be LBJ deciding to muscle in on Israel’s operations, e.g. positioning the U.S. as a “peacekeeper” which would not necessarily be to Israel’s advantage.

    (3) “Conspiracy” – LBJ himself or the Pentagon could have ordered Israel to attack the USS Liberty as a false flag to “justify” U.S. “retaliation” against Egypt. This seems hare-brained and very risky for Israel, but not impossible. If the Liberty had been sunk with the loss of all hands, the true facts could have been hushed up. Remember that Egypt was pro-Soviet in those days.

    • Replies: @iffen
  299. iffen says:
    @Eagle Eye

    e.g. they found out USS Liberty intelligence was finding its way to Egypt/Syria

    Six-Day War. It was decided by the time of the Liberty attack. Why would they care about intelligence?

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  300. Eagle Eye says:
    @iffen

    Incident was June 8. War was June 5 – June 10. Initial decision probably made June 7. Remember there is typically a lag time before decisions reflect the most recent state of knowledge.

    • Replies: @iffen
  301. iffen says:
    @Eagle Eye

    It’s the only motive that has a modicum of rationale. Even so, you would have to have a small tight group of conspirators. You couldn’t have faked all the known communications traffic. Did they just hope that the “right” decision would be made by people who were not a part of the conspiracy?

    What is the motive for the US to pass information to the Egyptians? Steal a chessboard piece from the Soviets? How many people would have to conspire to transmit that information to the Egyptians? How many Egyptians would have to remain silent all these years? Were there any Egyptians alive at that time, even one, much less one with military power that would take “intel” from the US at face value?

  302. Art says:

    In addition to the death toll, 171 more of the crew were wounded in the two-hour assault.

    Oh my – who could blame the Jews – even though it was a TWO-HOUR assault – clearly it was the “fog of war” that caused it. Those poor Jews never had the time to call it off. Did aircraft to ground radios even exist back then?

    Clearly – this is just one more excuse to attack the truly virtuous of this world – the Jews. Face it folks, no matter what they do, they are always the victims.

    (sarcasm off)

    Think Peace — Art

  303. anarchyst says:

    “The Jew cries out in pain as he is striking you”…

  304. What would be the motives for the IDF to attack the Liberty. If any motive was suggested above, I missed it.

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