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The USS Liberty Wins One!
The American Legion finally calls for a congressional inquiry
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Rescue efforts the day after the USS liberty was attacked by Israeli forces.

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On June 8th 1967 the United States Navy intelligence ship the U.S.S. Liberty was attacked in international waters by aircraft and vessels belonging to Israel. Thirty-four sailors, Marines and civilians were killed in the attack. The deliberate Israeli air and sea onslaught sought to sink the clearly identified intelligence gathering ship and kill all its crew. It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time. In addition to the death toll, 171 more of the crew were wounded in the two-hour assault, which was clearly intended to destroy the intelligence gathering vessel operating in international waters collecting information on the ongoing fighting between Israel and its Arab neighbors. The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with torpedo boats from the sea. When one Israeli pilot hesitated, refusing to attack what was clearly an American ship, he was instructed to proceed anyway.

Most Americans are completely unaware that a United States naval vessel was once deliberately targeted and nearly sunk by America’s “greatest friend and ally” Israel. The attack was followed by a comprehensive cover-up that demonstrated clearly that at least one president of the United States even back nearly fifty years ago valued his relationship with the state of Israel above his loyalty to his own country.

The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson, who declared that he would rather see the ship go to the bottom of the sea than embarrass his good friend Israel. Ironically, the first ship to reach the foundering Liberty and offer assistance was from the Soviet Union, an offer that was declined.

The incredible courage and determination of the surviving crew was the only thing that kept the Liberty from sinking. The ship’s commanding officer Captain William McGonagle was awarded a Congressional Medal of Honor for his heroic role in keeping the ship afloat, though President Lyndon Baines Johnson broke with tradition and refused to hold the medal ceremony in the White House, also declining to award it personally, delegating that task to the Secretary of the Navy in a closed to the public presentation made at the Washington Navy Yard. The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement with hostile forces in the history of the United States Navy.

The cover-up of the attack began immediately. The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident, as were the Naval dockyard workers in Malta, and even the men of the U.S.S. Davis, which had assisted the badly damaged Liberty to port were ordered to be silent. A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry ordered by Admiral John McCain interviewed only a few crewmen and did not seek to determine what had actually happened, instead, acting under orders from Washington, it moved quickly to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. The inquiry’s senior legal counsel Captain Ward Boston, who subsequently declared the attack to be a “deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew,” also revealed that Admiral Isaac Kidd, who presided over the inquiry, had told him that “President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him [Kidd] to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised.

Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence. The documents relating to the Liberty incident from the White House perspective of McNamara and Johnson, if they have not been destroyed, have never been released to the public in spite of the 50 years that have passed since the attack took place.

In retrospect, one might well have expected little better from the likes of Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara and either Admiral John McCain or his son, but the cover-up that has endured for fifty years involving the national media as well as politicians from both parties is perhaps even more disgraceful because it has established the principle that even when Israel targets and kills American military personnel it will never ever be held accountable. Such is the power of the Israel Lobby in the United States.

Even if one is not exactly surprised by the behavior of Washington’s own apparatchiks there has been one constituency that has been steadfast in its support of the U.S.S. Liberty and its surviving crew and that is America’s veterans. Or at least that has been true with one major exception, consisting of the largest veterans’ organization, the American Legion. The second largest veterans’ group the Veterans of Foreign War (VFW) has long demanded a proper investigation into what happened to the Liberty as have also the Military Order of the Purple Heart, Disabled Veterans of America, and the Retired Officers Association, but the Legion has long been actually hostile to any attempts to establish accountability for the Liberty survivors.

The Legion’s history of opposition to any examination of what happened to the U.S.S. Liberty is interesting in that it demonstrates how one or two individuals can work insidiously within a large organization to prevent the endorsement of policies overwhelmingly favored by most of its members. The American Legion did, in fact, decry the Israeli attack on the Liberty shortly after it occurred. In August 1967, after the conclusion of the flawed Admiral John McCain directed inquiry, the American Legion adopted Resolution 508 declaring that the published report “fails to provide the American public with a satisfactory answer as to the reason for the attack.” It asserted that “The American Legion denounces and condemns Israel’s irresponsible attack” and demanded “a complete and thorough investigation of the incident.” Immediately after the passage of the resolution there were complaints and pressure coming from Jewish groups and individuals, which is why the resolution was unfortunately never acted upon at a time when it might have had some impact on a congress that was not yet completely Israeli occupied territory. The 1967 resolution was rescinded by the Legion’s National Executive Committee in 1984.

There followed more than thirty years of futility as Liberty survivors and veterans groups sought to reintroduce their demand for a proper inquiry as an active American Legion resolution, but the group’s National Executive exploited a number of stratagems to block every attempt to introduce a new resolution, including rejecting proposals in committee, changing convention rules and physically confronting and expelling those who objected. Indeed, the Legion’s executive did its best to drop the U.S.S. Liberty story down a memory hole. An article written by James Ennes, an officer wounded in the attack, was commissioned for publication in the Legion magazine but was pulled at the last minute because it was “too controversial.”

Efforts by the Legion’s Michigan Department in 2012 to introduce a new resolution resulted in some heated exchanges with senior Legion officials who clearly were the driving force on blocking any action relating to the Liberty. The Legion’s Judge Advocate General Phil Onderdonk confronted the Michigan delegate Ted Arens and angrily informed him that “Your resolution is going nowhere” before describing the Liberty survivors as “anti-Semites.” He also said that “The ship should never have been there. It was a spy ship.” Onderdonk was true to his word about the resolution going nowhere. He reportedly personally removed Arens’ name from the foreign affairs committee agenda to block him from either speaking or presenting his resolution.

Onderdonk’s name pops up regularly in the reminiscences of those who have been advocating for a new Liberty resolution. Indeed, he appears to have been the Legion point-man for dealing with the U.S.S. Liberty inquiries. He is a lawyer from Indiana who served as a “contracting officer” during the Vietnam War. Onderdonk was obviously badly informed regarding the facts in the case as the Liberty was in international waters and clearly marked as an American vessel. And if it was a spy ship, that spying was being done under orders from and to benefit the United States government. And, of course, the claim of anti-Semitism is as ever the last refuge of a scoundrel who has nothing better to say, particularly if one is allegedly representing a patriotic organization and is discussing a surprise attack by a foreign government in which 34 American sailors, Marines and civilians were killed.

I should also note that Onderdonk has been the Legion Judge Advocate General since 1983, shortly before the original Liberty resolution by the Legion was rescinded. If past interaction with Liberty survivors is anything to go by, it can be assumed that he will do everything in his power to block any recognition for the ship and its crew. He is, unfortunately, still the Legion Judge Advocate General and it is at least somewhat ironic that a Religious Liberty Award has been named in his honor and recently presented to Senator Ted Cruz.

Also in 2012, two Liberty survivors were turned away from the annual convention where they had expected to man a booth for the Liberty Veterans Association, which they had paid for. They were forcibly ejected from the convention hall and the Legion’s conference coordinator Dick Holmes turned on Arens and told him “I am sick of you bastards and am going to throw you out on your ass.” In 2013, Liberty survivors’ application for a booth was similarly rejected without any reason being offered. In the following year, the Legion reached out to the VFW and tried to convince it to ban the Liberty survivors from its own gatherings. The VFW rejected the appeal.

So the attempt of the U.S.S. Liberty survivors and their supporters to get the American Legion on board for an inquiry seemed doomed to fail – until this year, the 50th anniversary of the attack. A new resolution was adopted in March by Post 40 in Seattle Washington and was later passed unanimously at the State of Washington’s own American Legion convention, thus placing it on the agenda of the national convention. It was then endorsed by the Iowa delegation, which introduced it to the Foreign Relations subcommittee. Gunnery Sergeant Bryce Lockwood, who received a Silver Star for gallantry during the Israeli attack, worked the August 17-24 national convention in Reno and performed heroically for a second time on behalf of his shipmates, shepherding the draft resolution through in spite of resistance from the American Legion Executive and Foreign Relations subcommittee chair William Flanagan.

One of the participants in the process described how the critical vote came at the National Security Committee level, which was where previous draft resolutions had been derailed. The National Executive had recommended against the resolution and there was considerable opposition from the leadership on the Foreign Relations subcommittee, but the rank-and-file on Foreign Relations did not back down and were successful in a 27-11 vote. The Security Committee then passed it on an overwhelmingly favorable voice vote, with Gunny Lockwood working hard from the sidelines on both committees as well as on the convention floor. When the resolution finally was presented to the full membership it easily passed on another voice vote, revealing that there was strong support from the Legion membership.

Resolution 40 begins by making the case for the Liberty in 11 “Whereas” paragraphs. It then states: “RESOLVED, By The American Legion in National Convention assembled in Reno, Nevada, August 22, 23, 24, 2017, that The American Legion calls upon the 115th United States Congress to publicly, impartially, and thoroughly investigate the attack on the USS Liberty and its aftermath and to commence its investigation before the end of 2017, the 50th anniversary year of the attack.”

Whether Congress can be induced to do the right thing by the Liberty remains to be seen, but the adoption of the resolution was a major victory brought about by a confluence of factors as well as a lot of hard work on the part of the Liberty survivors and their supporters. And certainly, it is no time to relax as the Israel Lobby never sleeps, never gives up. The resolution is posted on the American Legion website but one should assume that there will still be some pushback against actually doing anything about the resolution being exerted by senior officials within the American Legion bureaucracy. Israel meanwhile will certainly use all the resources that it has at hand, and they are considerable, to make sure that Congress never looks into the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in any capacity.

We Americans who care for the Liberty and are concerned by the 50 years of lies, cover-up and general obfuscation regarding it can do our bit by calling or writing our members of Congress to remind them that all major veterans groups now are expecting action. We should also tell them that the investigation into what happened on that day is way past due. Sometimes even Senators and Representatives listen.

 
Of Related Interest
uss-liberty-new
The 50 year cover-up of a mass murder of U.S. servicemen orchestrated by Israel and its friends
Liberty Commemoration 2015
Forty-eight years is too long to wait for justice
Damaged USS Liberty. Photo: US Navy.
Israel’s Attack on the USS Liberty 50 Years Later
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  1. MarkinPNW says:

    The American Legion recruited me a few years ago, and I was a member for a year or two, but I let my membership lapse because they seemed a little too neo-connish. With this latest news, maybe I’ll go ahead and rejoin.

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  2. wayfarer says:

    question: Why is Israel the world’s most privileged child?
    answer: Who knows, maybe they’ve sold their soul in return for extraordinary privileges.

    question: How many people died in wars, during the 20th century?
    answer: A rough estimate is about 123,000,000 people.
    source: https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-in-all-the-wars-in-the-20th-century
    source: http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2006/05/dictatorships_d.html

    question: How many holocaust memorials/museums are there in the world?
    answer: Too many for the average person to spend time counting.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums

    question: How much tax-exempt cash did one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) make in 2016?
    answer: $151,826,695.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    question: How much did American taxpayers have to give one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) in 2017?
    answer: $56,999,500.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

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    • Replies: @Wally
    All that and the 'holocau$t' storyline is pure propaganda.

    And why do so many people want '6M Jews & 5M others' to be dead? Revisionists don't.
    Revisionists bring good news, Jews should be elated.

    Science, rational thought, & logic simply demolish the 'holocaust' storyline.
    And that's why there are Thought Crime Laws that imprison those who engage in free speech about it.
    Truth is hate to those that hate the truth.

    See the 'holocaust' scam easily & thoroughly debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    , @Lot
    #winning

    http://ifamericaknew.org/images/FourMaps2.png
    , @bjondo
    21st C fiction can be very lucrative
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  3. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson…

    Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11.

    As for “the power of the Israel Lobby,” the case of the attempted sinking of the Liberty proves nothing. The assumption that the attack was instigated by Israel remains to be demonstrated. What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US? Then it would be a case analogous to the putative role of Israelis in 9/11, as agents of the US Government, doing the dirty work of the war criminals in the US government. In that case, LBJ, in covering for Israel, was covering his own arse.

    Whether Congress can be induced to do the right thing by the Liberty remains to be seen…

    Forget it. Nothing of the kind will be seen.

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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Even though the Israelis seemed to have known about the coming 9/11 attacks as conveyed in the following Scottish Sunday Herald article they did not carry out the attacks (Arabs did because of hatred for US support for Israel):


    Five Israelis Were Seen Filming
    As Jet Liners Ploughed Into
    The Twin Towers
    On September 11, 2001
    Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed
    the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned
    a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
    By Neil Mackay
    The Sunday Herald - UK
    11-2-3


    http://rense.com/general44/those.htm

    , @Erebus

    What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US?
     
    Not sure I'd use the word "instigated", but I've long thought it very likely that the US & IL (likely IL-firsters on both sides) had cooked up a Gulf of Tonkin-ish scheme that would qualify as a casus belli for the US to enter the war. The scheme went bad when the damn boat stayed afloat, with survivors. It seems to be the most sensible explanation for the Israelis' apparent determination, Johnson/McNamara's recall, and the ultra-rigorous cover-up.

    Forget it.
     
    They'll find for "Mistaken Identity", again. "No evidence" of any scheme, as if this kind of a deal would be noted in the counter-signed, stamped minutes of an official meeting.
    , @Eagle Eye
    Re-read the following lines from the article, remembering that whatever the U.S. public was told at the time or later, the U.S. military and U.S. intelligence agencies (NSA) knew in virtually real time - through electronic surveillance and conventional humint - that Israeli planes and ships were involved in the attack.

    It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time.

    ...

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with torpedo boats from the sea.

     

    The Israelis, of course, would have known that the U.S. government could not be fooled. Quite possibly, Israel acted under U.S. orders.

    Again - re-read the following line, remembering that the unstated SUBJECT of this sentence is a Democratic president, LBJ, who:

    (1) probably had his predecessor assassinated; (2) was also responsible for the Gulf of Tonkin incident (false flag op to ramp up the Vietnam war) and (3) ordered the USS Pueblo incident (deliberate provocation of North Korea).


    The cover-up of the attack began immediately.
     
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  4. chris says:

    That’s great news, Phil !

    Lets see who and how they’re going to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes again. There certainly won’t be a lack of volunteers to try to block any investigation; after all that’s what they’ve all been groomed for, but it will be interesting to watch. AIPAC is probably right now meeting with Graham, Cruz, and Rubio to pick a volunteer for their mission of treason – it will be their finest hour !

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    • Replies: @JGarbo
    No new investigation. Legion labeled fanatics, Russian dupes, etc. The Israel Lobby is as powerful as the oil supplies in ME. No more oil, no more Israel. Palestine will belatedly be recognized and "asked" to share its petro-wealth in the Med with US benefactor. Israelis know their place - assets of CIA - expendables.
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  5. wayfarer says:

    Issuing a correction to the previous post.

    question: Why is Israel the world’s most privileged child?
    answer: It seems to be more than simply having too much money, quite possibly the self-serving child has traded its eternal soul for so many temporal carnal privileges.

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    • Replies: @deltajent
    Nations/governments/states are legal fictions and do not have souls--only individuals do. Individuals will be judged and receive their eternal rewards on the great Judgment Day based on their actions and the grace of God. The coercive collectives known as governments will prosper or wither in this world according to the actions of those individuals who control them. Their "citizens" (unwilling tax slaves) will prosper or suffer accordingly.
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  6. USS Liberty survivor Bryce Lockwood meets with President Trump:

    President Trump, Let Me Tell You About the Attack on the USS Liberty

    https://usslibertyveteransblog.com/president-trump-let-me-tell-you-about-the-attack-on-the-uss-liberty/

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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    The Day Israel Attacked America:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2014/10/30/the-day-israel-attacked-america/
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  7. @AmericaFirstNow
    USS Liberty survivor Bryce Lockwood meets with President Trump:

    President Trump, Let Me Tell You About the Attack on the USS Liberty



    https://usslibertyveteransblog.com/president-trump-let-me-tell-you-about-the-attack-on-the-uss-liberty/
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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up on Memorial Day 2012:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWyjykrLbvU&feature=youtu.be
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  8. @AmericaFirstNow
    The Day Israel Attacked America:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2014/10/30/the-day-israel-attacked-america/

    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up on Memorial Day 2012:

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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up & Media Accomplices:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2d0CKXy8HQ&list=PL32A3140D59BF5772&feature=plpp_play_all
    , @annamaria
    The family of traitors:
    "A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry ordered by Admiral John McCain interviewed only a few crewmen and did not seek to determine what had actually happened, instead, acting under orders from Washington, it moved quickly to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. ... Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence."
    Moreover, Senator McCain has been the most enthusiastic collaborator with the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, and before that - with the Vietnamese: http://www.basfeijen.nl/newcoldwar/ukraineneonazis.htm http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-president/

    Ironically, it seems that whenever the name of McCain pops up, the US could expect some substantial harm to the enlisted men and women: "Four days after the collision of the United States destroyer John S. McCain with an oil tanker east of Singapore, the search for 10 missing sailors continues to be painstakingly slow."

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  9. @AmericaFirstNow
    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up on Memorial Day 2012:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWyjykrLbvU&feature=youtu.be

    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up & Media Accomplices:

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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Cindy McCain also OK with Israel murdering USS Liberty sailors & marines:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/04/cindy-mccain-on-the-uss-liberty-coverup-i-dont-care-about-this-issue/
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  10. @AmericaFirstNow
    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up & Media Accomplices:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2d0CKXy8HQ&list=PL32A3140D59BF5772&feature=plpp_play_all

    Cindy McCain also OK with Israel murdering USS Liberty sailors & marines:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/04/cindy-mccain-on-the-uss-liberty-coverup-i-dont-care-about-this-issue/

    Read More
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  11. Additional links about USS Liberty attack/cover-up at following Calguns.net URL:

    June 8th, 1967 – Remember the USS Liberty! – 50 year aniversary:

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1342836

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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney's C-SPAN viewer call for journalist Eric Margolis and his response:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH-oZHBzOe8&feature=PlayList&p=0E678441B38AFD95&index=0&playnext=1
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  12. Realist says:

    What are the chances that the US congress rules against Israel…..zero.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    right? "wins one" in this case will just be lip service :)
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  13. Lot says:

    the Israel Lobby never sleeps, never gives up.

    And Unz’s Putinist/Muslimist stooge crew cannot think of anything else!

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    You mean, the truth has an anti-Israeli bias? Guess it is hard to maintain the profitable status of the eternal victim after being caught with murder, again and again.
    The story of USSLiberty is attracting more attention to the Looby's unstoppable attempts at using the US resources to do a slaughter in the Middle East. How many civilians died in the Middle East for Israel's quest for power - 4 million? -- among them a huge number of children. This is an important information for the Holocaust Museums to illustrate the bloody deeds of AIPAC and other Friends of Israel in Europe in the name of the mythical "promised land."
    , @Wally
    Could be because Jews make sure we think of nothing else.

    Jews:
    the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com
    , @A guy
    One comes to expect this type of crass takkiyah from an Iran firster like Giraldi . Still , half a dozen articles in the past few months alone regarding the unfortunate Liberty accident and not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut that killed twice as many. Some Patriot .Do they pay by the word at takkiyah headquarters?
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  14. @AmericaFirstNow
    Additional links about USS Liberty attack/cover-up at following Calguns.net URL:

    June 8th, 1967 - Remember the USS Liberty! - 50 year aniversary:

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1342836

    USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney’s C-SPAN viewer call for journalist Eric Margolis and his response:

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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Following is the article which USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney mentioned to Eric Margolis:

    The USS Liberty: America's Most Shameful Secret
    :

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/05/eric-margolis/the-uss-liberty-americas-most-shameful-secret/
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  15. @AmericaFirstNow
    USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney's C-SPAN viewer call for journalist Eric Margolis and his response:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH-oZHBzOe8&feature=PlayList&p=0E678441B38AFD95&index=0&playnext=1

    Following is the article which USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney mentioned to Eric Margolis:

    The USS Liberty: America’s Most Shameful Secret
    :

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/05/eric-margolis/the-uss-liberty-americas-most-shameful-secret/

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow

    USS Liberty Survivors Invoke Benghazi, Demand Hearings
    (ignored by John McCain)

    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/07/liberty-survivors-invoke-benghazi.html
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  16. It’s not the first time the American Legion has concealed history:

    “In 1933, the conspirators planned to recruit 500,000 military veterans from the First World War through various American Legion branches. They even pledged $3 million to buy weapons for their half-million man army so the troops could capture and hold the American capital. Once the seat of power was theirs, the plotters would install an ultra-nationalist and business-friendly regime modelled after Mussolini’s Italy”

    @ http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/02/25/the-business-plot-did-american-billionaires-plan-a-fascist-coup/

    I wonder how many of today’s legion members are aware of Smedley Butler and his undoing a fascist coup plot to overthrow the USA’s constitutional government. My guess would be not many.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Gee, we thought you'd be out smashing statues or staging 'neo-Nazi' things.

    ANTIFA = vegan ISIS.

    BLM = ISIS on crack

    James Woods on driving snowflakes insane:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/99db67415ea4adb0c769826892415341dab98e10f10eb61cef228208903b6308.jpg?w=600&h=512

    , @Alden
    That's just one reason my VFW Dad loathed the American Legion. He always said they were paid strike breakers too. Of course Dad was a lefty.
    , @Alden
    They didn't know much about Mussolini's Italy did they? Mussolini was both pro worker and pro business. Mussolini did more for the Italian poor workers and widows than any Italian state or leader had done in a thousand years.

    FDR's worker welfare friendly New Deal was based on Mussolini's 192o 's programs. He also was the only prime minister who managed to get the Mafia under control. That's why so many came to America after Mussolini's police cracked down.

    The legion and other conservatives didn't know much about Mussolini.
    , @Anon
    Wtf I love the American Legion now
    , @Wade
    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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  17. @CanSpeccy

    The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson...
     
    Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11.

    As for "the power of the Israel Lobby," the case of the attempted sinking of the Liberty proves nothing. The assumption that the attack was instigated by Israel remains to be demonstrated. What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US? Then it would be a case analogous to the putative role of Israelis in 9/11, as agents of the US Government, doing the dirty work of the war criminals in the US government. In that case, LBJ, in covering for Israel, was covering his own arse.


    Whether Congress can be induced to do the right thing by the Liberty remains to be seen...
     
    Forget it. Nothing of the kind will be seen.

    Even though the Israelis seemed to have known about the coming 9/11 attacks as conveyed in the following Scottish Sunday Herald article they did not carry out the attacks (Arabs did because of hatred for US support for Israel):


    Five Israelis Were Seen Filming
    As Jet Liners Ploughed Into
    The Twin Towers
    On September 11, 2001
    Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed
    the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned
    a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
    By Neil Mackay
    The Sunday Herald – UK
    11-2-3

    http://rense.com/general44/those.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Israeli Spying and 9/11:
    Carl Cameron's Spiked FOX News Story
    :

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/israeli_spyring_fox.html

    Look following article for who pressured to have that Carl Cameron Fox News series about Israeli spying spiked:


    JINSA Behind Drive To
    Cover-Up Israeli Spy Scandal:

    http://rense.com/general18/JINSA.htm

    Same JINSA Israel 1st neocons who pushed US into Iraq for Israel:

    http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020910_fisk.html

    , @Sparkon
    ғᴏʀᴋᴇᴅ ᴛᴏɴɢᴜᴇ ᴀʟᴇʀᴛ

    This commenter AmericaFirstNow is trying to hide behind the Liberty attack to further the lies about 9/11, and Osama bin Laden.

    In some circles, such a tactic is known as a "limited hang-out," where admission of one operation is used to conceal another.

    In this particular instance, AmericaFirstNow is attempting to gain credibility by joining the chorus of calls for a congressional inquiry into the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, while at the same time promoting the bogus story that OBL and the Astonishing Arab Airmen were responsible for 9/11.

    By many accounts, Osama bin Laden passed away due to complications from kidney failure in December 2001:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/11/20/bin-ladens-obituary-notice/

    This disinformation agent AmericaFirstNow is attempting to squat on an excellent article by Philip Giraldi to further the lies about 9/11.

    Let the reader beware.
    , @Lot
    Is Giraldi brave enough to write about how 9-11 was an Israeli plot?
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  18. I’m one of those interested in the Liberty affair.
    In my opinion we now know exactly what happened, McNamara wanted to nuke Cairo, in any case targets in Egypt, a Russian attack on the Liberty was to be the excuse.
    Israel’s task was to sink the Liberty with anyone on board, so that there were no witnesses.
    Israel made a mess of it, especially the rockets constructed to home in on the Liberty’s antennae were a disaster, nobody had foreseen that they would fly towards the powerful Israeli jamming stations, their signal was far stronger.
    It of of course would be great if a congressional investigation would confirm all this, but it is an illusion.

    By now there is no doubt whatsoever that FDR deliberately provoked Pearl Harbour.
    But in 1946, when the congressional investigation was held, it was not so clear.
    So the investigation led to nothing, the democrats saw no deliberate provocation, the republicans did see.

    Government investigations into political hot items of course never lead to the truth.
    Governments do not expose their own crimes.
    In the Liberty case, bot the USA government, and Israel, are clearly implicated.

    Warren wrote an admirable report on the murder of Kennedy, admirable here with the meaning that indeed Lee Harvy Oswald was a lone murderer.
    White Wash tore the Warren Report to shreds.

    Read More
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  19. Erebus says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson...
     
    Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11.

    As for "the power of the Israel Lobby," the case of the attempted sinking of the Liberty proves nothing. The assumption that the attack was instigated by Israel remains to be demonstrated. What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US? Then it would be a case analogous to the putative role of Israelis in 9/11, as agents of the US Government, doing the dirty work of the war criminals in the US government. In that case, LBJ, in covering for Israel, was covering his own arse.


    Whether Congress can be induced to do the right thing by the Liberty remains to be seen...
     
    Forget it. Nothing of the kind will be seen.

    What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US?

    Not sure I’d use the word “instigated”, but I’ve long thought it very likely that the US & IL (likely IL-firsters on both sides) had cooked up a Gulf of Tonkin-ish scheme that would qualify as a casus belli for the US to enter the war. The scheme went bad when the damn boat stayed afloat, with survivors. It seems to be the most sensible explanation for the Israelis’ apparent determination, Johnson/McNamara’s recall, and the ultra-rigorous cover-up.

    Forget it.

    They’ll find for “Mistaken Identity”, again. “No evidence” of any scheme, as if this kind of a deal would be noted in the counter-signed, stamped minutes of an official meeting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    While it was stuck in its Vietnam mess why would Johnson and Macnsmara be looking for an excuse to get involved in a ME war?
    , @RonaldB
    Actually, Israel was doing just fine on its own in the 6-day war. Assuming your scenario, which I don't think is at all supported by any evidence or logic, bringing in the US would take away the independence of Israel to decide what to do with the conquered territories. Why would Israel want to make itself directly answerable to a foreign country when not strictly necessary?

    And the reply that Israel would have been confident of its control over US policy wouldn't hold water. Eisenhower forced Israel, Britain, and France to withdraw from the Sinai in 1956.

    I support an open inquiry into the Liberty incident, but most of the alternatives presented here just don't hold water.
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  20. MEexpert says:

    Dr. Giraldi.

    Why was the help from the Russian ship refused?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    Dunno but there was a cold war going on at the time - possibly because they didn't want the Russians to get a good look at all the electronic interception gear on board!
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  21. @AmericaFirstNow
    Even though the Israelis seemed to have known about the coming 9/11 attacks as conveyed in the following Scottish Sunday Herald article they did not carry out the attacks (Arabs did because of hatred for US support for Israel):


    Five Israelis Were Seen Filming
    As Jet Liners Ploughed Into
    The Twin Towers
    On September 11, 2001
    Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed
    the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned
    a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
    By Neil Mackay
    The Sunday Herald - UK
    11-2-3


    http://rense.com/general44/those.htm

    Israeli Spying and 9/11:
    Carl Cameron’s Spiked FOX News Story
    :

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/israeli_spyring_fox.html

    Look following article for who pressured to have that Carl Cameron Fox News series about Israeli spying spiked:

    JINSA Behind Drive To
    Cover-Up Israeli Spy Scandal:

    http://rense.com/general18/JINSA.htm

    Same JINSA Israel 1st neocons who pushed US into Iraq for Israel:

    http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020910_fisk.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    9/11 Motive & Media Betrayal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ncn5Q16N4&list=PL3C32560738EF3C30&feature=plpp

    Bin Laden motive for 9/11 in his own words (ignored by Israel 1st US media):

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11

    Report: Bin Laden Warned U.S. Over Security of Palestine in Final Tape

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/report-bin-laden-warned-u-s-over-security-of-palestine-in-final-tape-1.360595

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  22. n230099 says:

    Israel describing the Liberty Captain: “A man’s got to know his limitations”**

    **Harry Callahan

    Read More
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  23. Camillus4AD says: • Website

    Not this old saw again. This seems to be the Israel haters’ go to conspiracy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Surprised this Israel firster isn't using the tired 'Zionist trick' as well (see fmr Israeli minister mention it in following Youtube)!:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUGVPBO9_cA
    , @Alden
    Read the book " Attack on the USS Liberty " by the survivors who were there and lived to tell the truth.

    What's the explanation Jewish propaganda central poured into your empty brain?

    1 the Jews couldn't see the numerous huge American flags?

    2 the Liberty discovered that Israel attacked Syria first?

    3 Being goyim, 2 legged animals not fully human anyway the Israelis had the right to murder the Liberty sailors because the lives of the goyim mean nothing.
    It was much of an act of war as the attack in Pearl Harbor or the German army attacking Poland 9/1 1939.
    , @isthatright
    read your history idiot
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  24. LondonBob says:

    One of the biggest factors in the stonewalling around the USS Liberty was CIA counterintelligence chief Angleton, who also served as Israeli desk officer.

    So writes Jeff Morley who will tell the story of Angleton’s role in the Liberty incident in his forthcoming book, The Ghost; The Secret Life of CIA Spymaster James Jesus Angleton, which will be published in October 2017. Be interesting to see how much new information he has unearthed, at least he should be able to tie together elements not fully packaged together before.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Angelton mentioned in following BBC 'Dead in the Water' documentary as well:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOH1XMAwZA
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  25. @MEexpert
    Dr. Giraldi.

    Why was the help from the Russian ship refused?

    Dunno but there was a cold war going on at the time – possibly because they didn’t want the Russians to get a good look at all the electronic interception gear on board!

    Read More
    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
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  26. Here’s the sleaze ball who ordered the USS Liberty anti-rescue effort and the cover up:

    http://5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    Our First Jewish President Lyndon Johnson

    Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffman’s, apparently migrated to Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.

    According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish.

    These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines. Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin. John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

    Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman, who married Joseph Baines and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines, Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Durruti
    Remember:

    LB Johnson was also one of the assassins of John F. Kennedy, our last Constitutional President, LB Johnson was one of the Traitors who destroyed our Republic.

    He (LB Johnson, under the orders of the Zionist Oligarchs), increased the imperialist intervention against Vietnam, and ordered the genocide that led to the death of 1 million unarmed Indonesian civilians in 1965 - among numerous other crimes.

    Our Sacred Duty as American Citizens and Patriots, is to Restore our Democratic Republic!

    There is no other road open to us, or remedy that will suffice to cure what ails us.

    Durruti - for the Anarchist Collective

    , @Hibernian
    Somewhere along the line a representative of this matrilineal line converyted to Christianity. LBJ was no more Jewish than Goldwater.
    , @Eileen Kuch
    Joe Franklin, that was an excellent report you made on LBJ and his ancestors. You're 100% correct in stating since his parents, grandparents, etc. on the Jewish maternal line were all Jews, that instantly made LBJ Jewish, according to Jewish Law.
    Just tracing the line of Jewish mothers in the 36th President's family tree was enough to prove that he, too, was Jewish.
    Thank you, Joe, for doing the research on LBJ's family tree and posting it on this website.
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  27. @LondonBob
    One of the biggest factors in the stonewalling around the USS Liberty was CIA counterintelligence chief Angleton, who also served as Israeli desk officer.

    So writes Jeff Morley who will tell the story of Angleton’s role in the Liberty incident in his forthcoming book, The Ghost; The Secret Life of CIA Spymaster James Jesus Angleton, which will be published in October 2017. Be interesting to see how much new information he has unearthed, at least he should be able to tie together elements not fully packaged together before.

    Angelton mentioned in following BBC ‘Dead in the Water’ documentary as well:

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Can see fmr CIA director Richard Helms interviewed in that BBC 'Dead in the Water' documentary as the following Navy Times/Marine Times article included Captain Ward Boston's interview which helped to blow the lid off of the USS Liberty cover-up:


    Israel Attack On USS Liberty
    "No Accident" Says Helms
    :

    http://www.ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ul-navytimes.html


    Following is an article about Captain Boston which appeared in the San Diego Union Tribune:

    Ex-officer alleges cover-up in probe of spy ship attack
    :

    http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/20040217-9999-1n17liberty.html

    Following is the declaration by Captain Boston:

    http://www.ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ul-boston.html

    Can see James Bamford read Captain Boston's declaration in following State Department USS Liberty panel discussion (can see how the Jewish State Department historian Marc Susser cut off USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney in the Q & A near the end):

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?179892-1/1967-arabisraeli-war-uss-liberty

    Can also see David Satterfield speak there as he is mentioned in following article as well with the AIPAC espionage case as Trump has just named him to a senior diplomatic position for the Mideast:

    https://israelpalestinenews.org/satterfield-leaked-classified-info-aipac-named-highest-diplomatic-position-middle-east/

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  28. From the official USS Liberty survivor website:

    On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

    The Attack

    After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

    The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.

    The Cover Up

    Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

    Read More
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  29. @AmericaFirstNow
    Following is the article which USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney mentioned to Eric Margolis:

    The USS Liberty: America's Most Shameful Secret
    :

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/05/eric-margolis/the-uss-liberty-americas-most-shameful-secret/


    USS Liberty Survivors Invoke Benghazi, Demand Hearings
    (ignored by John McCain)

    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/07/liberty-survivors-invoke-benghazi.html

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  30. iffen says:

    Leaving my politics aside, am I the only one who sees the absurdity and farcical reasoning involved in demanding a Congressional “investigation” into the Liberty incident? Maybe it will put them in the mood and they could go on a run: another Kennedy “investigation,” better still, another 9/11 “investigation.” I know that I speak for many millions of Americans when I say that there is no more impartial, wise and truth-seeking body than the American Congress.

    Read More
    • Disagree: ChuckOrloski
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  31. @AmericaFirstNow
    Angelton mentioned in following BBC 'Dead in the Water' documentary as well:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOH1XMAwZA

    Can see fmr CIA director Richard Helms interviewed in that BBC ‘Dead in the Water’ documentary as the following Navy Times/Marine Times article included Captain Ward Boston’s interview which helped to blow the lid off of the USS Liberty cover-up:


    Israel Attack On USS Liberty
    “No Accident” Says Helms
    :

    http://www.ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ul-navytimes.html

    Following is an article about Captain Boston which appeared in the San Diego Union Tribune:

    Ex-officer alleges cover-up in probe of spy ship attack
    :

    http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/20040217-9999-1n17liberty.html

    Following is the declaration by Captain Boston:

    http://www.ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ul-boston.html

    Can see James Bamford read Captain Boston’s declaration in following State Department USS Liberty panel discussion (can see how the Jewish State Department historian Marc Susser cut off USS Liberty survivor Phil Tourney in the Q & A near the end):

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?179892-1/1967-arabisraeli-war-uss-liberty

    Can also see David Satterfield speak there as he is mentioned in following article as well with the AIPAC espionage case as Trump has just named him to a senior diplomatic position for the Mideast:

    https://israelpalestinenews.org/satterfield-leaked-classified-info-aipac-named-highest-diplomatic-position-middle-east/

    Read More
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  32. The attack on the USS LIBERTY and the attack on 911 just proves the power that the Zionists have over the U.S. government and have had for over 100 years and congress may as well be called the lower house of the Knesset.

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    • Agree: Rurik
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  33. @Realist
    What are the chances that the US congress rules against Israel.....zero.

    right? “wins one” in this case will just be lip service :)

    Read More
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  34. @AmericaFirstNow
    Israeli Spying and 9/11:
    Carl Cameron's Spiked FOX News Story
    :

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/israeli_spyring_fox.html

    Look following article for who pressured to have that Carl Cameron Fox News series about Israeli spying spiked:


    JINSA Behind Drive To
    Cover-Up Israeli Spy Scandal:

    http://rense.com/general18/JINSA.htm

    Same JINSA Israel 1st neocons who pushed US into Iraq for Israel:

    http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020910_fisk.html

    9/11 Motive & Media Betrayal:

    Bin Laden motive for 9/11 in his own words (ignored by Israel 1st US media):

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11

    Report: Bin Laden Warned U.S. Over Security of Palestine in Final Tape

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/report-bin-laden-warned-u-s-over-security-of-palestine-in-final-tape-1.360595

    Read More
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  35. @Camillus4AD
    Not this old saw again. This seems to be the Israel haters' go to conspiracy.

    Surprised this Israel firster isn’t using the tired ‘Zionist trick’ as well (see fmr Israeli minister mention it in following Youtube)!:

    Read More
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  36. Rurik says: • Website

    Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence.

    Thank you Mr. Giraldi for your heroic efforts to right this monstrous wrong.

    It’s one thing for men in uniform to die fighting their enemy, but another entirely when those men are betrayed by their leaders in government (having accepted their thirty shekels) and who lost their young lives in cowardly acts of Satanic treachery.

    A treachery that has continued with every year down to the day and minute that the American Legion has refused to honor their memories with the truth.

    From Ted Cruz’s speech to the Legion:

    But the American Legion, the patriots in this room and across the country, you cannot leave a man on the battlefield, and you cannot stop fighting for the country you love.

    and yet that is what Cruz and the Legion have been doing for decades.

    more from Ted Cruz’ speech:

    We were one justice away from the Supreme Court ordering ‘tear down that veterans’ memorial’. And mark my words, when they tear down the cross on veterans’ memorial in the middle of desert, we are but moments away from the next order to tear down the tombstone with the cross or Star of David lined one after the other, after the other, after the other. That’s not America. That’s not who we are

    betraying his true sympathies

    Cruz is an unapologetic Israeli firster. A messianic “Christian” Zionist. And he’s exactly the type of lying scum that would betray every single American to Moloch if that secured his personal ambitions.

    It’s past time that the lies and treason vis-a-vis the USS Liberty were exposed and the men who died are finally honored for their ultimate sacrifice.

    The attack on the USS Liberty was not a case of mistaken identity. It was a calculated act of cowardice and treachery to get American men to die fighting Israel’s enemies- with a false flag attack, something Israel is notorious for. From the Lavon affair to 9/11, these rats have been using murder and treachery to spill American blood for their Jewish supremacist agenda. And few are more guilty of complicity than the execrable Ted Cruz.

    God bless you Mr. Giraldi, for all your efforts to honor the victims of the USS Liberty and expose this national dishonor and disgrace.

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  37. As a survivor of this deliberate Israeli attack on June 8, 1967, I commend and deeply appreciate Philip Giraldi’s article. I was one of the two Liberty 2012 convention participants to obtain a booth. Our purpose was to pass out literature regarding the attack and the lack of empathy from our politicians. I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building. I guess our words were too dangerous to the American Legion members.

    This incident is only one of many the Liberty crew has endured because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments. We only want justice especially for our 34 shipmates who were murdered and the attempted murder of 294 Americans serving on the Liberty which was completing an intelligence mission that day.

    Thanks again Phil and I hope your readers will take heed and help us. Ernest Gallo, President, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    Read More
    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Rurik

    because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments.
     
    I hesitate sir, to even respond to your comment, out of a sincere, sacrosanct even ~ respect for your service and your efforts to see your shipmates honored.

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred, is so all-pervasive and insidious that it's worth pointing out that not everyone who criticizes Israel or the crimes of some Jews, harbors ill will towards Jews in general. That's an egregious blood libel, and a heinous lie intended to shield the crimes and criminals who also happen to be Jews, from justice.

    Asking why Israelis were dancing and celebrating the horrific attacks on 9/11 does not implicate your Jewish wife or cousin or friend as a criminal or terrorist. Just as pointing out the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty was an act of war, (and a war crime)- does not mean you want to push Ann Frank into an oven.

    But they create those memes deliberately so that no one is ever allowed to criticize any Jews anywhere lest it mean = you are Adolf Hitler reincarnated.

    There was, if I'm not mistaken a Jewish Israeli pilot that refused to participate in the attack on the Liberty. For that man to refuse orders, (like the Israeli 'refuseniks') must have required a decency and a strength of character that is rare in militaries the world over.

    How dare they imply that you are condemning that man too, just because you're demanding our government honor your fallen shipmates.

    Those who accuse someone like you of being motivated by racism- are without honor or decency, and I just wanted to make that point.

    Kudos sir for all you have done, and God speed.
    , @Art
    I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building.

    How horrible – good Americans against good Americans – inharmonious jarring hateful conflict – they kill our sailors and we end up fighting with each other. They get in our head and screw us over.

    That is the insidious nature of the Jews and their power games. Their tribal quest for power is our loss.

    Clearly, they deserve our condemnation. We want a measure of justice – we want a resolution of this matter – we want it to never happen again – we want our American culture back!

    Think Peace --- Art
    , @ChuckOrloski
    Ernest,

    During the late-1980's, I taught an evening course at the University of Scranton Dexter Hanley college, titled "History of the Nuclear Age."

    One day while looking through available "used" works at the university bookstore, I purchased Captain James Eness Jr.'s "Assault on the USS Liberty" for $2.00.

    Although fearful of Israeli power over the U.S. since November 22, 1963, the "Assault on the USS Liberty" came as quite a shock to me. Naiive, I wondered why the barbaric attack was not mentioned while attending undergraduate history & political science lectures at a Jesuit university.

    Academia's betrayal made it sickenlingly easy for Israeli deception artists to make obvious historic & current event facts by no means obvious. You were honorable, militarily neat, and brave to appear at the American Legion convention and try to educate "belligerent" officers. Shame on them.

    Finally, while teaching the "History of the Nuclear Age" course at the U., I sent an (enthusiastic) complimentary letter to Captain James Ennes, Jr. In it was my description on how "Assault on the USS Liberty" was purchased (used) at a college bookstore fire sale! Rather quickly and with stoic humor, the Captain wrote me back and noted how his book managed to sink to another depth by the weapons of insouciance.

    A favor, Ernest

    Am unable to get a Google-search update on James E., and I sincerely hope his health is well. Have you any knowledge that can be shared here @ The U.R. comment department? So you know, the author Mr. Finkelstein (a self hating Jew to many) has recently written a terrific article on Captain Ennes & the USS Liberty serial murder. Thanks very much, & I trust he remains a noble "survivor" like you.
    , @Cloak And Dagger
    Ernest et al. : It is truly remarkable that you all have kept this infamous piece of our history alive for 50 years, so that those of us who were not alive then can know of it and remember it for generations to come. A day of reckoning will come for Israel and all the treasonous bastards in our government who have enabled her to the detriment of our own citizens, and many of us will line up to string them from the nearest tree, and it will be because of your sacrifices and efforts over these years.

    I am enough of an optimist to believe that we can seize our country back from the scourge of the Jewish Lobby and their many treasonous puppets in my lifetime. Until that day comes, I salute you and your fellow patriots. Your sacrifice should not be in vain, if there is ever to be any justice in this nation of ours.
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  38. Durruti says:
    @Joe Franklin
    Here's the sleaze ball who ordered the USS Liberty anti-rescue effort and the cover up:

    http://5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    Our First Jewish President Lyndon Johnson

    Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffman's, apparently migrated to Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.

    According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish.

    These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines. Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin. John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

    Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman, who married Joseph Baines and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines, Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.

     

    Remember:

    LB Johnson was also one of the assassins of John F. Kennedy, our last Constitutional President, LB Johnson was one of the Traitors who destroyed our Republic.

    He (LB Johnson, under the orders of the Zionist Oligarchs), increased the imperialist intervention against Vietnam, and ordered the genocide that led to the death of 1 million unarmed Indonesian civilians in 1965 – among numerous other crimes.

    Our Sacred Duty as American Citizens and Patriots, is to Restore our Democratic Republic!

    There is no other road open to us, or remedy that will suffice to cure what ails us.

    Durruti – for the Anarchist Collective

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  39. Rurik says: • Website
    @Ernest Gallo
    As a survivor of this deliberate Israeli attack on June 8, 1967, I commend and deeply appreciate Philip Giraldi's article. I was one of the two Liberty 2012 convention participants to obtain a booth. Our purpose was to pass out literature regarding the attack and the lack of empathy from our politicians. I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building. I guess our words were too dangerous to the American Legion members.

    This incident is only one of many the Liberty crew has endured because of our Government's deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments. We only want justice especially for our 34 shipmates who were murdered and the attempted murder of 294 Americans serving on the Liberty which was completing an intelligence mission that day.

    Thanks again Phil and I hope your readers will take heed and help us. Ernest Gallo, President, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments.

    I hesitate sir, to even respond to your comment, out of a sincere, sacrosanct even ~ respect for your service and your efforts to see your shipmates honored.

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred, is so all-pervasive and insidious that it’s worth pointing out that not everyone who criticizes Israel or the crimes of some Jews, harbors ill will towards Jews in general. That’s an egregious blood libel, and a heinous lie intended to shield the crimes and criminals who also happen to be Jews, from justice.

    Asking why Israelis were dancing and celebrating the horrific attacks on 9/11 does not implicate your Jewish wife or cousin or friend as a criminal or terrorist. Just as pointing out the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty was an act of war, (and a war crime)- does not mean you want to push Ann Frank into an oven.

    But they create those memes deliberately so that no one is ever allowed to criticize any Jews anywhere lest it mean = you are Adolf Hitler reincarnated.

    There was, if I’m not mistaken a Jewish Israeli pilot that refused to participate in the attack on the Liberty. For that man to refuse orders, (like the Israeli ‘refuseniks’) must have required a decency and a strength of character that is rare in militaries the world over.

    How dare they imply that you are condemning that man too, just because you’re demanding our government honor your fallen shipmates.

    Those who accuse someone like you of being motivated by racism- are without honor or decency, and I just wanted to make that point.

    Kudos sir for all you have done, and God speed.

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    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred
     
    I always find it amazing when I consider the luck the IDF had in attacking the one ship in the US Navy manned entirely by anti-Semites and Jew haters.
    , @Ernest Gallo
    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie about the attack. In fact, if you go to the ADL web site and google my name, you will find this to be true. I have authored a book, "Liberty Injustices-- A Survivor's Account of American Bigotry". I have captured various incidents that have occurred to me and the crew. Read my book! So unless you have walked in my shoes and experienced the name calling and harassment, please try to understand the hurt and embarrassment as the USS Liberty is the most decorated Navy ship for a single engagement and the Navy cannot name a new ship "Liberty" because it would offend certain people. America wake up!!!
    , @Alden
    ONE Israeli pilot first refused. Then he obeyed orders. That's what the military does, , obey orders.

    I wonder when ADL, AJC, ACLU and SPLC will declare the American Legion a Nazi KKK hate group and get every member fired from his or her job.
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  40. annamaria says:
    @AmericaFirstNow
    John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up on Memorial Day 2012:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWyjykrLbvU&feature=youtu.be

    The family of traitors:
    “A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry ordered by Admiral John McCain interviewed only a few crewmen and did not seek to determine what had actually happened, instead, acting under orders from Washington, it moved quickly to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. … Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence.”
    Moreover, Senator McCain has been the most enthusiastic collaborator with the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, and before that – with the Vietnamese: http://www.basfeijen.nl/newcoldwar/ukraineneonazis.htm http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-president/

    Ironically, it seems that whenever the name of McCain pops up, the US could expect some substantial harm to the enlisted men and women: “Four days after the collision of the United States destroyer John S. McCain with an oil tanker east of Singapore, the search for 10 missing sailors continues to be painstakingly slow.”

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  41. @Erebus

    What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US?
     
    Not sure I'd use the word "instigated", but I've long thought it very likely that the US & IL (likely IL-firsters on both sides) had cooked up a Gulf of Tonkin-ish scheme that would qualify as a casus belli for the US to enter the war. The scheme went bad when the damn boat stayed afloat, with survivors. It seems to be the most sensible explanation for the Israelis' apparent determination, Johnson/McNamara's recall, and the ultra-rigorous cover-up.

    Forget it.
     
    They'll find for "Mistaken Identity", again. "No evidence" of any scheme, as if this kind of a deal would be noted in the counter-signed, stamped minutes of an official meeting.

    While it was stuck in its Vietnam mess why would Johnson and Macnsmara be looking for an excuse to get involved in a ME war?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Their masters and owners, AIPAC, ADL, AJC and the government of Israel ordered them to get involved in a ME war.

    A few years later Nixon and Kissinger air lifted every tank we had in Europe to Israeli to use in the 1973 war. That was the height of the Cold War.
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  42. Took a while: I remember that another USS Liberty carried tanks for them.

    Should have been a wash.

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  43. Wally says: • Website
    @wayfarer
    question: Why is Israel the world's most privileged child?
    answer: Who knows, maybe they've sold their soul in return for extraordinary privileges.

    question: How many people died in wars, during the 20th century?
    answer: A rough estimate is about 123,000,000 people.
    source: https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-in-all-the-wars-in-the-20th-century
    source: http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2006/05/dictatorships_d.html

    question: How many holocaust memorials/museums are there in the world?
    answer: Too many for the average person to spend time counting.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums

    question: How much tax-exempt cash did one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) make in 2016?
    answer: $151,826,695.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    question: How much did American taxpayers have to give one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) in 2017?
    answer: $56,999,500.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    http://www.poppyfield.org/img/PoppyField.jpg

    All that and the ‘holocau$t’ storyline is pure propaganda.

    And why do so many people want ’6M Jews & 5M others’ to be dead? Revisionists don’t.
    Revisionists bring good news, Jews should be elated.

    Science, rational thought, & logic simply demolish the ‘holocaust’ storyline.
    And that’s why there are Thought Crime Laws that imprison those who engage in free speech about it.
    Truth is hate to those that hate the truth.

    See the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

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  44. annamaria says:
    @Lot

    the Israel Lobby never sleeps, never gives up.
     
    And Unz's Putinist/Muslimist stooge crew cannot think of anything else!

    You mean, the truth has an anti-Israeli bias? Guess it is hard to maintain the profitable status of the eternal victim after being caught with murder, again and again.
    The story of USSLiberty is attracting more attention to the Looby’s unstoppable attempts at using the US resources to do a slaughter in the Middle East. How many civilians died in the Middle East for Israel’s quest for power – 4 million? — among them a huge number of children. This is an important information for the Holocaust Museums to illustrate the bloody deeds of AIPAC and other Friends of Israel in Europe in the name of the mythical “promised land.”

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  45. Wally says: • Website
    @Lot

    the Israel Lobby never sleeps, never gives up.
     
    And Unz's Putinist/Muslimist stooge crew cannot think of anything else!

    Could be because Jews make sure we think of nothing else.

    Jews:
    the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

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  46. The Liberty attack is similar to so many incidents that appear in these columns.
    There are simple matters of fact to address, but those get sidetracked by many commenters.

    Did the Liberty get attacked? Yes
    Who did it? Israel
    Was the attack covered up? Yes
    Why was it covered up? That is where the issues get interesting. Many issues involving US, Israel, USSR, Egypt, and citizens of those countries.
    Who are the parties involved? Adm. John S. McCain, etc
    Added questions 1, 2, 3, etc

    By identifying specific questions, asking those questions, and answering them directly, while stripping out ideology matters, the world may get closer to the truth.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    Oddly enough, later that month Adm John S. McCain's son also tried to blow up and sink a US ship.
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  47. Wally says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    It's not the first time the American Legion has concealed history:

    "In 1933, the conspirators planned to recruit 500,000 military veterans from the First World War through various American Legion branches. They even pledged $3 million to buy weapons for their half-million man army so the troops could capture and hold the American capital. Once the seat of power was theirs, the plotters would install an ultra-nationalist and business-friendly regime modelled after Mussolini’s Italy"

    @ http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/02/25/the-business-plot-did-american-billionaires-plan-a-fascist-coup/

    I wonder how many of today's legion members are aware of Smedley Butler and his undoing a fascist coup plot to overthrow the USA's constitutional government. My guess would be not many.

    Gee, we thought you’d be out smashing statues or staging ‘neo-Nazi’ things.

    ANTIFA = vegan ISIS.

    BLM = ISIS on crack

    James Woods on driving snowflakes insane:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/99db67415ea4adb0c769826892415341dab98e10f10eb61cef228208903b6308.jpg?w=600&h=512

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    • Replies: @Uslabor
    Looks like the snowflakes got your goat, too.

    Just saying, =).
    , @A guy
    James Woods is a Zionist lmao !!!

    http://www.israellycool.com/2015/02/04/pro-israel-celebrity-of-the-day-james-woods/

    Do you still like him Wally ?
    Muh Codoh Muh Codoh lolol
    The holohoax never happened why won't anyone listen to meeeeee
    , @Ronald Thomas West
    Yeah Wally, I do keep busy but not propping up identity politics. Here's an (off topic) work Phil might (or not) appreciate that had kept me busy, so sorry for the late reply ... Wally, you're a sorry moron

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2017/09/06/akamai-tree/

    ^

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  48. My limited interest in the USS Liberty affair is not easily roused but PG’s is a credible voice. Without recalling previously ingested details I think my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate and because the chance at least one of the Israelis involved having significantly strong American connections and sentiments would be far from negligible.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success
     
    well wiz, because if you don't kill the whole crew, then there'd be witnesses! See? And your cowardice and murderous treachery would get exposed, (McCain's efforts notwithstanding)

    especially as the means available and employed were inadequate
     
    they were adequate wiz, but you're forgetting incompetence

    Just as with the Lavon affair or 9/11, the Israelis are notorious for incompetence, but what they know they can count on is the sniveling fealty of the media and government whores with a pension to protect...

    not to mention armies of dissemblers and liars trying to muddy the truth with pathetic little squirts of ink

    ;)

    , @peterAUS

    it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate
     
    Means employed were more than adequate.
    It's actually almost a miracle the ship stayed afloat and there were any survivors.

    Since introduction of air power history is full of examples of similar ships and less attack power being quite successful.

    Attacked: 7,725 long tons (7,849 t) (light) civilian cargo vessel
    Attackers:
    2 Mirage IIIs
    2 Mystères
    3 motor torpedo boats

    IMHO, just those torpedo boats should've been enough.
    Hell, just one actually.
    , @Alden
    The Israelis would have checked for any pro American pilots and sent others.
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  49. Sparkon says:
    @AmericaFirstNow
    Even though the Israelis seemed to have known about the coming 9/11 attacks as conveyed in the following Scottish Sunday Herald article they did not carry out the attacks (Arabs did because of hatred for US support for Israel):


    Five Israelis Were Seen Filming
    As Jet Liners Ploughed Into
    The Twin Towers
    On September 11, 2001
    Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed
    the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned
    a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
    By Neil Mackay
    The Sunday Herald - UK
    11-2-3


    http://rense.com/general44/those.htm

    ғᴏʀᴋᴇᴅ ᴛᴏɴɢᴜᴇ ᴀʟᴇʀᴛ

    This commenter AmericaFirstNow is trying to hide behind the Liberty attack to further the lies about 9/11, and Osama bin Laden.

    In some circles, such a tactic is known as a “limited hang-out,” where admission of one operation is used to conceal another.

    In this particular instance, AmericaFirstNow is attempting to gain credibility by joining the chorus of calls for a congressional inquiry into the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, while at the same time promoting the bogus story that OBL and the Astonishing Arab Airmen were responsible for 9/11.

    By many accounts, Osama bin Laden passed away due to complications from kidney failure in December 2001:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/11/20/bin-ladens-obituary-notice/

    This disinformation agent AmericaFirstNow is attempting to squat on an excellent article by Philip Giraldi to further the lies about 9/11.

    Let the reader beware.

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  50. Rurik says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz
    My limited interest in the USS Liberty affair is not easily roused but PG's is a credible voice. Without recalling previously ingested details I think my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate and because the chance at least one of the Israelis involved having significantly strong American connections and sentiments would be far from negligible.

    my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success

    well wiz, because if you don’t kill the whole crew, then there’d be witnesses! See? And your cowardice and murderous treachery would get exposed, (McCain’s efforts notwithstanding)

    especially as the means available and employed were inadequate

    they were adequate wiz, but you’re forgetting incompetence

    Just as with the Lavon affair or 9/11, the Israelis are notorious for incompetence, but what they know they can count on is the sniveling fealty of the media and government whores with a pension to protect…

    not to mention armies of dissemblers and liars trying to muddy the truth with pathetic little squirts of ink

    ;)

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  51. @Rurik

    because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments.
     
    I hesitate sir, to even respond to your comment, out of a sincere, sacrosanct even ~ respect for your service and your efforts to see your shipmates honored.

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred, is so all-pervasive and insidious that it's worth pointing out that not everyone who criticizes Israel or the crimes of some Jews, harbors ill will towards Jews in general. That's an egregious blood libel, and a heinous lie intended to shield the crimes and criminals who also happen to be Jews, from justice.

    Asking why Israelis were dancing and celebrating the horrific attacks on 9/11 does not implicate your Jewish wife or cousin or friend as a criminal or terrorist. Just as pointing out the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty was an act of war, (and a war crime)- does not mean you want to push Ann Frank into an oven.

    But they create those memes deliberately so that no one is ever allowed to criticize any Jews anywhere lest it mean = you are Adolf Hitler reincarnated.

    There was, if I'm not mistaken a Jewish Israeli pilot that refused to participate in the attack on the Liberty. For that man to refuse orders, (like the Israeli 'refuseniks') must have required a decency and a strength of character that is rare in militaries the world over.

    How dare they imply that you are condemning that man too, just because you're demanding our government honor your fallen shipmates.

    Those who accuse someone like you of being motivated by racism- are without honor or decency, and I just wanted to make that point.

    Kudos sir for all you have done, and God speed.

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred

    I always find it amazing when I consider the luck the IDF had in attacking the one ship in the US Navy manned entirely by anti-Semites and Jew haters.

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  52. Alden says:

    Wonderful!!

    My Dad was a VFW guy. He despised the legion as an anti worker, anti middle class tool of the oppressors. Whatever. Can’t do links on my phone but here is a Jewish article confirming that Johnson was jewish. I’m skeptical. Lots of Europeans have some jewish ancestors.

    Sometimes one can learn more about Jewish movements from their community newspapers. It seems the pro capitalist Israel right or wrong bourgeois life style New York metro suburban Jewish papers are feuding with the marksist pro black/Muslim/OCWS/ anti fa lunatic Jewish Forward.
    5 towns Jewish times

    5tjt. com April 11 2013 “Lyndon Johnson our first Jewish president. ”
    Often Jewish publications Jewish Encyclopedia etc confirm all the anti Semitic conspiracy theories.

    My personal opinion is that Johnson was pro Jewish from the 1930s on not because of his heritage but because of the standard bribe & blackmail way of the lobbyist. And Johnson had a lot to be blackmailed about.
    M

    The Johnson Nixon Humphrey affirmative action laws are based on the 4th protocol of the elders. After making a list of hundreds of attorneys and law firms involved on the anti White side of affirmative action I could see that 90 percent had obviously Jewish names.

    So I read an 1890s copy of the protocols in the forbidden books section of a university library.

    And there it was protocol 4 ” We shall see to it my brothers, that they, the goyim enemy appoint only the unfit and incompetent to government positions. Thus when the time comes, we shall conquer them easily.”

    1890s to 2017 The Jewish plan for affirmative action aka no White goyim need apply.

    Here is how to contact congress critters all over the country so they think you live in their district. Look on their website check out the district. Then look up the zip codes in the district. Just make up an address in one of those zip codes. Because their contact boxes usually don’t accept addresses and zip codes out of their districts.

    My congress critter is a Jew so I’ll contact the ever increasing Hispanic congress critters from my state. Probably black Arab and Muslim congress critters as well.

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  53. Lot says:
    @wayfarer
    question: Why is Israel the world's most privileged child?
    answer: Who knows, maybe they've sold their soul in return for extraordinary privileges.

    question: How many people died in wars, during the 20th century?
    answer: A rough estimate is about 123,000,000 people.
    source: https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-in-all-the-wars-in-the-20th-century
    source: http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2006/05/dictatorships_d.html

    question: How many holocaust memorials/museums are there in the world?
    answer: Too many for the average person to spend time counting.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums

    question: How much tax-exempt cash did one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) make in 2016?
    answer: $151,826,695.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    question: How much did American taxpayers have to give one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) in 2017?
    answer: $56,999,500.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    http://www.poppyfield.org/img/PoppyField.jpg

    #winning

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    • Replies: @wayfarer
    Yet “Israel” will ultimately have to pay a high price, for "winning." The cost of which is untold damage to its divine soul and spiritual essence.

    “As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…”
    , @Wally
    But not #won.

    The world is now on to the evils of Zionism.
    , @Cloak And Dagger
    A Pyrrhic victory, at best. What follows will smack that gloating grin off your face.
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  54. Cal2 says:

    Don’t just comment—do something.

    Email American Legion National headquarters:

    https://www.legion.org/contact

    Scroll down to the heading ‘Legislative ‘ and click email

    Ask them if they support America and its veterans or if they ‘represent the interest of the foreign country of Israel.

    Do it now.

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  55. Michael\\ says:

    The ongoing US national effort to cover-up the failed US & Israeli false-flag attempted sinking of the USS Liberty in 1967 reveals that the attack is not yet history for public discussion but remains an active though incomplete covert action.

    Extraordinary behaviour demands extraordinary explanations. In the 90′s I spoke to a Liberty survivor who believed informed discussion about the USS Liberty events, even among the remaining survivors, placed them at dire risk of threat or disappearance.

    I suggest that the continuing efforts to malign, misrepresent and disappear the USS Liberty story are good evidence that the official story is false (much like the 911 narrative) and was very likely cobbled together to obscure a US Israeli collaboration to create a pretext for expanding the Six Day War with a US nuclear attack against Egypt.

    The initial US carrier launched “rescue” aircraft to assist the USS Liberty were armed with nuclear weapons likely in response to information from a US submarine on location to an apparent observed “Egyptian” air attack on the Liberty.

    Likely, the astounding survival of the Liberty and its capacity to prove that it was attacked not by Egyptian but by Israeli aircraft and MTB’s prevented excusable pretext for an unwarranted nuclear strike against Egypt or its allies.

    This is the sort of narrative which would explain the entirely provocative, culpable and irresponsible behaviour of the US and Israel in the Six Day War. They were and still are allies absolutely committed to covering-up crimes and achieving military, political, economic and ethno-cultural domination of the middle east and the approaches to Russia.

    The 1967 USS Liberty event exposes that the US is still deceitfully operating in utter contravention of its Constitution, the Geneva Convention and in contempt of its citizens in regards to its conduct of war through its agencies, assigns, contractors and allies as will be evidenced in the appropriate unconstrained investigation of the attack on the USS Liberty. m\\

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  56. A guy says:
    @Lot

    the Israel Lobby never sleeps, never gives up.
     
    And Unz's Putinist/Muslimist stooge crew cannot think of anything else!

    One comes to expect this type of crass takkiyah from an Iran firster like Giraldi . Still , half a dozen articles in the past few months alone regarding the unfortunate Liberty accident and not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut that killed twice as many. Some Patriot .Do they pay by the word at takkiyah headquarters?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Uslabor
    So.....because Marines were killed in Beirut the Israelis get a pass for their treaturous betrayal.

    Iran wasn't our ally, Israel was.
    , @iffen
    not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut

    Yes, but they were killed by Muslims and not dem Jews. And it was Saint Reagan (or a subordinate, depending upon whom you want to believe) that expressly forbade the military commander from taking proper security measures. It's almost if the ghost of LBJ had prevented the military from defending itself in a military situation. But like I said it wasn't dem Jews, except of course, in the brains of conspiracy mongers, inc.

    , @Wally
    Another hasbarist deflection which is irrelevant to the fact, which is .... "that shitty little country" attacked a known US ship.

    Besides, our guys wouldn't have even been in Beirut if it wasn't because of "that shitty little country".

    The True Cost of Parasite Israel
    Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/

    Israeli occupied territories
    https://codoh.com/media/files/cartoon24s.png

    'Join the US army, Fight for Israel
    http://68.media.tumblr.com/639563970a638b606f4adb0ef05c778b/tumblr_inline_o7t4eewwJn1r75mb5_500.jpg

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  57. wayfarer says:
    @Lot
    #winning

    http://ifamericaknew.org/images/FourMaps2.png

    Yet “Israel” will ultimately have to pay a high price, for “winning.” The cost of which is untold damage to its divine soul and spiritual essence.

    “As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…”

    Read More
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  58. Uslabor says:
    @Wally
    Gee, we thought you'd be out smashing statues or staging 'neo-Nazi' things.

    ANTIFA = vegan ISIS.

    BLM = ISIS on crack

    James Woods on driving snowflakes insane:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/99db67415ea4adb0c769826892415341dab98e10f10eb61cef228208903b6308.jpg?w=600&h=512

    Looks like the snowflakes got your goat, too.

    Just saying, =).

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    • Replies: @Wally
    No, I got yours. Obviously
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  59. Uslabor says:
    @A guy
    One comes to expect this type of crass takkiyah from an Iran firster like Giraldi . Still , half a dozen articles in the past few months alone regarding the unfortunate Liberty accident and not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut that killed twice as many. Some Patriot .Do they pay by the word at takkiyah headquarters?

    So…..because Marines were killed in Beirut the Israelis get a pass for their treaturous betrayal.

    Iran wasn’t our ally, Israel was.

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    • Agree: Talha
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  60. iffen says:
    @A guy
    One comes to expect this type of crass takkiyah from an Iran firster like Giraldi . Still , half a dozen articles in the past few months alone regarding the unfortunate Liberty accident and not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut that killed twice as many. Some Patriot .Do they pay by the word at takkiyah headquarters?

    not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut

    Yes, but they were killed by Muslims and not dem Jews. And it was Saint Reagan (or a subordinate, depending upon whom you want to believe) that expressly forbade the military commander from taking proper security measures. It’s almost if the ghost of LBJ had prevented the military from defending itself in a military situation. But like I said it wasn’t dem Jews, except of course, in the brains of conspiracy mongers, inc.

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    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    It was another case of the US having to clean up an Israeli mess. Reagan made two mistakes: 1. Going into Lebanon to start with. 2. Taking sides and using the navy to shell Druze villages.
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  61. Hrw-500 says:

    Slightly off-topic, but talk about a coincidence when I saw yesterday headline of the Drudge Report.
    http://archive.is/h3Trg Is it karma?

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  62. nsa says:

    The Izzies could confess and it would make not the slightest difference: “sure we sank your crappy spy boat and knocked down your crappy skyscrapers, but it was necessary to wake you up to the muzzie threat to western civilization”……kind of like “Pearl Harbor” and “The Maine” and “Gulf of Tonkin” were necessary fictions. Sometimes it is necessary to lie for the greater good……and the Hasbarists and domestic Jooie media and Zio pundits would fire up……and within twenty four hours you would be thanking them for all their efforts in your behalf. Maybe this is pessimistic….might take only eight hours for the KnessetPersons on the Potomac to declare a national day of Remembrance for the valiant attackers of the USS Liberty…….

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  63. A guy says:
    @Wally
    Gee, we thought you'd be out smashing statues or staging 'neo-Nazi' things.

    ANTIFA = vegan ISIS.

    BLM = ISIS on crack

    James Woods on driving snowflakes insane:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/99db67415ea4adb0c769826892415341dab98e10f10eb61cef228208903b6308.jpg?w=600&h=512

    James Woods is a Zionist lmao !!!

    http://www.israellycool.com/2015/02/04/pro-israel-celebrity-of-the-day-james-woods/

    Do you still like him Wally ?
    Muh Codoh Muh Codoh lolol
    The holohoax never happened why won’t anyone listen to meeeeee

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Obviously you are listening to me. LOL

    But indeed, they are listening.
    That's why 16 European countries plus "that shitty little country" now arrest people for exercising free speech about the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'.
    Only lies need such oppression.

    BTW, www.codoh.com is booming with readers.

    Oops.

    "Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist
     

    "We reached the [Balfour] Declaration not by miracles, but through persistent propaganda, through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people. We told the responsible authorities: We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not. You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world."

    - World Zionist leader [and future 1st President of Israël] Chaim Weizmann, speech in Jerusalem, December 1919.
     
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  64. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    My limited interest in the USS Liberty affair is not easily roused but PG's is a credible voice. Without recalling previously ingested details I think my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate and because the chance at least one of the Israelis involved having significantly strong American connections and sentiments would be far from negligible.

    it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate

    Means employed were more than adequate.
    It’s actually almost a miracle the ship stayed afloat and there were any survivors.

    Since introduction of air power history is full of examples of similar ships and less attack power being quite successful.

    Attacked: 7,725 long tons (7,849 t) (light) civilian cargo vessel
    Attackers:
    2 Mirage IIIs
    2 Mystères
    3 motor torpedo boats

    IMHO, just those torpedo boats should’ve been enough.
    Hell, just one actually.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I invite you to outline the plan, using the means available, which would have promised the almost certain complete success which was, ex hypothesi, needed. Evidently the means available didn't include adequate staff work did it?
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  65. Logan says:

    I’m perfectly willing to consider this a premeditated attack by Israel to sink the American ship.

    Just don’t see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Just don’t see a motive
     
    here's the motive for the Lavon Affair per Wiki

    The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, "unspecified malcontents" or "local nationalists" with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt's Suez Canal zone.[2]

    the motive for sinking the Liberty was clearly to bring the US into the war with Egypt on Israel's side. IOW to get the US to fight Israel's war.

    It's perfectly reasonable to posit that the attack on the Marine barracks in Lebanon was a Mossad operation with the same goal in mind, to get the US to fight Israel's enemy.

    Just as there is zero doubt at this point that the 9/11 attacks, if not perpetrated by the Mossad and CIA outright, were at the very least allowed to happen - by Israel- in order to create the necessary outrage in the American public (Pat Tillman- like) to get Americans to destroy all of Israel's rivals and enemies in the Middle East.

    Those 'seven countries" General Clark was talking about

    the similarities between the attack on the USS Liberty and 9/11 are terrifying, because as with both attacks, our government at the highest levels of the executive branch and military and intelligence agencies, including the entire length and breath of our MSM, were all willing to go along with the cover up.

    we know the USS Liberty was attacked deliberately with the intention to sink her with all hands. This is beyond dispute. We also know that the Israelis at the very least knew 9/11 was about to happen, and yet didn't warn us, and allowed those passengers and people in the towers to die, because it suited their agenda for them to die.

    That we all know. It is beyond dispute. We also know that in both cases the Jewish owned and controlled media covered up both crimes.

    now we live with it

    , @Alden
    There was no downside. The navy, secretary of defense, president and the media covered it up. Israel and the US Jewish lobby were confident it would be covered up.
    , @Art
    Just don’t see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    Israel was telling Washington one thing and doing another. The Liberty knew the truth.

    The Jew solution was – sent the USS Liberty to the bottom – kill all the sailors. That is what they tried to do – they went after the life boats.

    Welcome to Jew think. Never ever sell its darkness short.

    Think Peace --- Art

    p.s. Hmm - exactly what was the downside to date?

    p.s. NOTHING!
    , @Lot
    That's because you are not a nutcase.

    The other problem is there is no way Israel could "frame Egypt" because it makes no sense for Egypt to attack a US ship. The dumb dumb derp of the Liberty Truthers has no bottom.
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  66. Alden says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    It's not the first time the American Legion has concealed history:

    "In 1933, the conspirators planned to recruit 500,000 military veterans from the First World War through various American Legion branches. They even pledged $3 million to buy weapons for their half-million man army so the troops could capture and hold the American capital. Once the seat of power was theirs, the plotters would install an ultra-nationalist and business-friendly regime modelled after Mussolini’s Italy"

    @ http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/02/25/the-business-plot-did-american-billionaires-plan-a-fascist-coup/

    I wonder how many of today's legion members are aware of Smedley Butler and his undoing a fascist coup plot to overthrow the USA's constitutional government. My guess would be not many.

    That’s just one reason my VFW Dad loathed the American Legion. He always said they were paid strike breakers too. Of course Dad was a lefty.

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  67. Alden says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    It's not the first time the American Legion has concealed history:

    "In 1933, the conspirators planned to recruit 500,000 military veterans from the First World War through various American Legion branches. They even pledged $3 million to buy weapons for their half-million man army so the troops could capture and hold the American capital. Once the seat of power was theirs, the plotters would install an ultra-nationalist and business-friendly regime modelled after Mussolini’s Italy"

    @ http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/02/25/the-business-plot-did-american-billionaires-plan-a-fascist-coup/

    I wonder how many of today's legion members are aware of Smedley Butler and his undoing a fascist coup plot to overthrow the USA's constitutional government. My guess would be not many.

    They didn’t know much about Mussolini’s Italy did they? Mussolini was both pro worker and pro business. Mussolini did more for the Italian poor workers and widows than any Italian state or leader had done in a thousand years.

    FDR’s worker welfare friendly New Deal was based on Mussolini’s 192o ‘s programs. He also was the only prime minister who managed to get the Mafia under control. That’s why so many came to America after Mussolini’s police cracked down.

    The legion and other conservatives didn’t know much about Mussolini.

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    • Agree: Che Guava
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  68. Rdm says:

    Here’s a scenario.

    A stranger parked his car in front of your home in public parking space. A stranger has every right to park whatever he pleases. But you also have every right to get suspicious of the stranger’s parking behavior. If the stranger never leaves his car, in the pretext of probing your activity in your home, would you feel content with his behavior? Would you rather stay home and pretend there’s no stranger’s car or would you rather confront the stranger because you damn well know that The Stranger used to go around the town, park his car wherever he damn well please and probe all people activities?

    What’s strange is you never see those kinds of attack near California coastal waters or Hawaii or Guam. WHY? Those kinds of attacks on US only happened in waters near foreign countries.

    Since I’m your best friend, I will come and park my car in front of your house, radio-station your nightly canoodling with your wife. No one’s wrong. But sure I’m your best friend snooping your nightly sex romp. But I felt immensely insulted when you won’t let me listen to yours.

    If we make this a film, this gotta be a freaking best Keaton’s show of all time.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    You actually have a good point IMHO.

    It was a spy ship, spying on a sovereign country during war.

    That country didn't like that spying.
    Now, this is interesting in this particular case. Slight difference in objectives at the moment? US administration wanted THIS; Israeli government wanted THAT.
    Ceasefire (THIS) vs further exploiting the victory (THAT)?
    Or, more accurately, ceasefire vs Golan?

    That country attacked the spy ship.

    Cannon fodder paid the price, as always.

    All the rest is public relation exercise by all parties involved.
    , @Alden
    Are you trying to say that Israel should be able to control the entire Mediterranean Sea and none of the other Mediterranean countries or other nations should be able to use the Mediterranean Sea?

    As I remember the Liberty was nearest to Egypt, not Israel and in international waters when attacked.

    Better check the law of the sea and learn the difference between international waters and territorial waters.

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.
    , @Bill Jones
    The lies from the Land Thieves never ends do they?
    The Liberty, of course was monitoring their war crimes in Egypt.
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  69. Alden says:
    @Camillus4AD
    Not this old saw again. This seems to be the Israel haters' go to conspiracy.

    Read the book ” Attack on the USS Liberty ” by the survivors who were there and lived to tell the truth.

    What’s the explanation Jewish propaganda central poured into your empty brain?

    1 the Jews couldn’t see the numerous huge American flags?

    2 the Liberty discovered that Israel attacked Syria first?

    3 Being goyim, 2 legged animals not fully human anyway the Israelis had the right to murder the Liberty sailors because the lives of the goyim mean nothing.
    It was much of an act of war as the attack in Pearl Harbor or the German army attacking Poland 9/1 1939.

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  70. Art says:
    @Ernest Gallo
    As a survivor of this deliberate Israeli attack on June 8, 1967, I commend and deeply appreciate Philip Giraldi's article. I was one of the two Liberty 2012 convention participants to obtain a booth. Our purpose was to pass out literature regarding the attack and the lack of empathy from our politicians. I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building. I guess our words were too dangerous to the American Legion members.

    This incident is only one of many the Liberty crew has endured because of our Government's deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments. We only want justice especially for our 34 shipmates who were murdered and the attempted murder of 294 Americans serving on the Liberty which was completing an intelligence mission that day.

    Thanks again Phil and I hope your readers will take heed and help us. Ernest Gallo, President, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building.

    How horrible – good Americans against good Americans – inharmonious jarring hateful conflict – they kill our sailors and we end up fighting with each other. They get in our head and screw us over.

    That is the insidious nature of the Jews and their power games. Their tribal quest for power is our loss.

    Clearly, they deserve our condemnation. We want a measure of justice – we want a resolution of this matter – we want it to never happen again – we want our American culture back!

    Think Peace — Art

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  71. Alden says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    While it was stuck in its Vietnam mess why would Johnson and Macnsmara be looking for an excuse to get involved in a ME war?

    Their masters and owners, AIPAC, ADL, AJC and the government of Israel ordered them to get involved in a ME war.

    A few years later Nixon and Kissinger air lifted every tank we had in Europe to Israeli to use in the 1973 war. That was the height of the Cold War.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Your first par is surely anachronistic at best.

    Your second par. wreaks of the totally implausible. Half an hour's reading, including Wikipedia on the Yom Kippur War has found that about 8000 tons of equipment (via Portuguese and Dutch territory) was received in Israel before the war ended (though vastly more in the next two or three months). The Soviet Union was resupplying Egypt and, initially, the US was refusing to resupply Israel. The US had already pressed Israel not to exercise its usual pre-emptive attack preference and resupply was seriously debated with reference to how much it would help the US to influence Israel or the Arabs and it seems that one factor may have been the Israelis preparing to go nuclear. In short there is not the slightest evidence even in 1973 of the kind of Israel First ownership of American policy you assert for 1967.
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  72. Alden says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    My limited interest in the USS Liberty affair is not easily roused but PG's is a credible voice. Without recalling previously ingested details I think my biggest problem with the gravest allegations is that it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate and because the chance at least one of the Israelis involved having significantly strong American connections and sentiments would be far from negligible.

    The Israelis would have checked for any pro American pilots and sent others.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Well we know they didn't succeed in finding and using that list of pilots who
    1. Hate America
    2. Couldn't give a stuff about America
    3. Can be relied on not to notice American markings on a ship and wonder if they are really meant to attack it.... So..
    It gets me back to the question I see as critical whenever clever people are supposed to have planned an elaborate wrongdoing, namely, whether they have left it all to 13 year olds who can't see all the things likely to go wrong.
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  73. Rurik says: • Website
    @Logan
    I'm perfectly willing to consider this a premeditated attack by Israel to sink the American ship.

    Just don't see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    Just don’t see a motive

    here’s the motive for the Lavon Affair per Wiki

    The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, “unspecified malcontents” or “local nationalists” with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt’s Suez Canal zone.[2]

    the motive for sinking the Liberty was clearly to bring the US into the war with Egypt on Israel’s side. IOW to get the US to fight Israel’s war.

    It’s perfectly reasonable to posit that the attack on the Marine barracks in Lebanon was a Mossad operation with the same goal in mind, to get the US to fight Israel’s enemy.

    Just as there is zero doubt at this point that the 9/11 attacks, if not perpetrated by the Mossad and CIA outright, were at the very least allowed to happen – by Israel- in order to create the necessary outrage in the American public (Pat Tillman- like) to get Americans to destroy all of Israel’s rivals and enemies in the Middle East.

    Those ‘seven countries” General Clark was talking about

    the similarities between the attack on the USS Liberty and 9/11 are terrifying, because as with both attacks, our government at the highest levels of the executive branch and military and intelligence agencies, including the entire length and breath of our MSM, were all willing to go along with the cover up.

    we know the USS Liberty was attacked deliberately with the intention to sink her with all hands. This is beyond dispute. We also know that the Israelis at the very least knew 9/11 was about to happen, and yet didn’t warn us, and allowed those passengers and people in the towers to die, because it suited their agenda for them to die.

    That we all know. It is beyond dispute. We also know that in both cases the Jewish owned and controlled media covered up both crimes.

    now we live with it

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    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @Lot
    More excuses for Muslim terrorist killers. Are the endless Muslim killers who just randomly stab or run over tourists in the west, or suicide bomb the mosques of the other type of Muslims, are they all Mossad operatives too?
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  74. @Ernest Gallo
    As a survivor of this deliberate Israeli attack on June 8, 1967, I commend and deeply appreciate Philip Giraldi's article. I was one of the two Liberty 2012 convention participants to obtain a booth. Our purpose was to pass out literature regarding the attack and the lack of empathy from our politicians. I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building. I guess our words were too dangerous to the American Legion members.

    This incident is only one of many the Liberty crew has endured because of our Government's deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments. We only want justice especially for our 34 shipmates who were murdered and the attempted murder of 294 Americans serving on the Liberty which was completing an intelligence mission that day.

    Thanks again Phil and I hope your readers will take heed and help us. Ernest Gallo, President, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    Ernest,

    During the late-1980′s, I taught an evening course at the University of Scranton Dexter Hanley college, titled “History of the Nuclear Age.”

    One day while looking through available “used” works at the university bookstore, I purchased Captain James Eness Jr.’s “Assault on the USS Liberty” for $2.00.

    Although fearful of Israeli power over the U.S. since November 22, 1963, the “Assault on the USS Liberty” came as quite a shock to me. Naiive, I wondered why the barbaric attack was not mentioned while attending undergraduate history & political science lectures at a Jesuit university.

    Academia’s betrayal made it sickenlingly easy for Israeli deception artists to make obvious historic & current event facts by no means obvious. You were honorable, militarily neat, and brave to appear at the American Legion convention and try to educate “belligerent” officers. Shame on them.

    Finally, while teaching the “History of the Nuclear Age” course at the U., I sent an (enthusiastic) complimentary letter to Captain James Ennes, Jr. In it was my description on how “Assault on the USS Liberty” was purchased (used) at a college bookstore fire sale! Rather quickly and with stoic humor, the Captain wrote me back and noted how his book managed to sink to another depth by the weapons of insouciance.

    A favor, Ernest

    Am unable to get a Google-search update on James E., and I sincerely hope his health is well. Have you any knowledge that can be shared here @ The U.R. comment department? So you know, the author Mr. Finkelstein (a self hating Jew to many) has recently written a terrific article on Captain Ennes & the USS Liberty serial murder. Thanks very much, & I trust he remains a noble “survivor” like you.

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    • Replies: @Ernest Gallo
    ChuckOrloski -- we are all getting up in age which means there is never a dull moment. As far as I know, Jim Ennes, the author of "Assault on the Liberty" is doing well. Thank God Jim wrote his book as it brought the crew together to form the USS Liberty Veterans Association. we consider him the father of our group. The fact that Jim published his book (1979) and did not get arrested, the crew realized that the gag order to never talk about the deliberate Israeli attack was not being enforced. Question: If the Governments of Israel and U.S. indicated that the attack was accidental, why would they order the crew to never talk about the attack even to our families? Wake up America!
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  75. Alden says:
    @Logan
    I'm perfectly willing to consider this a premeditated attack by Israel to sink the American ship.

    Just don't see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    There was no downside. The navy, secretary of defense, president and the media covered it up. Israel and the US Jewish lobby were confident it would be covered up.

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    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
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  76. peterAUS says:
    @Rdm
    Here's a scenario.

    A stranger parked his car in front of your home in public parking space. A stranger has every right to park whatever he pleases. But you also have every right to get suspicious of the stranger's parking behavior. If the stranger never leaves his car, in the pretext of probing your activity in your home, would you feel content with his behavior? Would you rather stay home and pretend there's no stranger's car or would you rather confront the stranger because you damn well know that The Stranger used to go around the town, park his car wherever he damn well please and probe all people activities?

    What's strange is you never see those kinds of attack near California coastal waters or Hawaii or Guam. WHY? Those kinds of attacks on US only happened in waters near foreign countries.

    Since I'm your best friend, I will come and park my car in front of your house, radio-station your nightly canoodling with your wife. No one's wrong. But sure I'm your best friend snooping your nightly sex romp. But I felt immensely insulted when you won't let me listen to yours.

    If we make this a film, this gotta be a freaking best Keaton's show of all time.

    You actually have a good point IMHO.

    It was a spy ship, spying on a sovereign country during war.

    That country didn’t like that spying.
    Now, this is interesting in this particular case. Slight difference in objectives at the moment? US administration wanted THIS; Israeli government wanted THAT.
    Ceasefire (THIS) vs further exploiting the victory (THAT)?
    Or, more accurately, ceasefire vs Golan?

    That country attacked the spy ship.

    Cannon fodder paid the price, as always.

    All the rest is public relation exercise by all parties involved.

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    • Replies: @Rdm

    All the rest is public relation exercise by all parties involved.
     
    You catch on quick.

    As long as all parties have some legitimacy, and an edge over some, this liberty tragedy will be the talk of the town.

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  77. Art says:
    @Logan
    I'm perfectly willing to consider this a premeditated attack by Israel to sink the American ship.

    Just don't see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    Just don’t see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    Israel was telling Washington one thing and doing another. The Liberty knew the truth.

    The Jew solution was – sent the USS Liberty to the bottom – kill all the sailors. That is what they tried to do – they went after the life boats.

    Welcome to Jew think. Never ever sell its darkness short.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Hmm – exactly what was the downside to date?

    p.s. NOTHING!

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  78. Alden says:
    @Rdm
    Here's a scenario.

    A stranger parked his car in front of your home in public parking space. A stranger has every right to park whatever he pleases. But you also have every right to get suspicious of the stranger's parking behavior. If the stranger never leaves his car, in the pretext of probing your activity in your home, would you feel content with his behavior? Would you rather stay home and pretend there's no stranger's car or would you rather confront the stranger because you damn well know that The Stranger used to go around the town, park his car wherever he damn well please and probe all people activities?

    What's strange is you never see those kinds of attack near California coastal waters or Hawaii or Guam. WHY? Those kinds of attacks on US only happened in waters near foreign countries.

    Since I'm your best friend, I will come and park my car in front of your house, radio-station your nightly canoodling with your wife. No one's wrong. But sure I'm your best friend snooping your nightly sex romp. But I felt immensely insulted when you won't let me listen to yours.

    If we make this a film, this gotta be a freaking best Keaton's show of all time.

    Are you trying to say that Israel should be able to control the entire Mediterranean Sea and none of the other Mediterranean countries or other nations should be able to use the Mediterranean Sea?

    As I remember the Liberty was nearest to Egypt, not Israel and in international waters when attacked.

    Better check the law of the sea and learn the difference between international waters and territorial waters.

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.

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    • Replies: @Rdm

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.
     
    This kind of baseless accusation is actually more prevalent than we would have imagined.

    If I say something against America, I am anti-American.
    If I say something good about America, I am pro-American.

    But in public, I can't be standing on both sides. I must take side. That's where problem kicks in. Democrats can't be Republicans on some aspects and neither can Republicans. We must take sides completely.

    I'm neither Pro-American nor Pro-Israel. I say what I see. That gives me advantage on seeing things clearly rather than being clouded by pseudo-patriotism and blind allegiance.

    On the other post in Unz by Mike Whitney, we can see why NK lately became feisty with Nuke test.

    We don't hear the other side of the story. We are constantly fed with the fat pig's nuke testing.

    --------------

    Just because it's international waters does not mean you can do whatever the heck you want.

    1. I park my car in front of your house although my car is slightly closer to your neighbors. Since it's a public parking space, I do whatever I damn well please. In fact, I anchored my car right in the same spot for days with an intention of spying your every move. It also showed how big my balls are. You damn well know my intention and I know that you don't like my intention of spying. Would you show your grace and let me do whatever I want or you want the world to know that you also have big balls?

    2. We're now in a public gym. There's no specific rules how much weight one should lift or how often one can do deadlift. Since I feel like I can do whatever the heck I want, I hog all the weight plates for my deadlifts for the entire day. I'm not against the policy, but I'm sort of walking over the edge of the policy to the extent that one can arguably say "Abusing the public space". Of course I want other gym users to know how big my assholes are.

    You might as well learn "the Art of Provocation" and becomes a victim in public eyes.
    , @Miro23

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.
     
    Or your psychopathic home occupier attempting (and failing) to murder the person outside in the parked car and blame it on the targeted people next door.

    The badly wounded car driver tries to tell his story but is told to shut up by the psychopath's influential friends (who in fact ordered the car driver to park outside the house and set him up).
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  79. @Off The Street
    The Liberty attack is similar to so many incidents that appear in these columns.
    There are simple matters of fact to address, but those get sidetracked by many commenters.

    Did the Liberty get attacked? Yes
    Who did it? Israel
    Was the attack covered up? Yes
    Why was it covered up? That is where the issues get interesting. Many issues involving US, Israel, USSR, Egypt, and citizens of those countries.
    Who are the parties involved? Adm. John S. McCain, etc
    Added questions 1, 2, 3, etc

    By identifying specific questions, asking those questions, and answering them directly, while stripping out ideology matters, the world may get closer to the truth.

    Oddly enough, later that month Adm John S. McCain’s son also tried to blow up and sink a US ship.

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  80. Rdm says:
    @peterAUS
    You actually have a good point IMHO.

    It was a spy ship, spying on a sovereign country during war.

    That country didn't like that spying.
    Now, this is interesting in this particular case. Slight difference in objectives at the moment? US administration wanted THIS; Israeli government wanted THAT.
    Ceasefire (THIS) vs further exploiting the victory (THAT)?
    Or, more accurately, ceasefire vs Golan?

    That country attacked the spy ship.

    Cannon fodder paid the price, as always.

    All the rest is public relation exercise by all parties involved.

    All the rest is public relation exercise by all parties involved.

    You catch on quick.

    As long as all parties have some legitimacy, and an edge over some, this liberty tragedy will be the talk of the town.

    Read More
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  81. Lot says:
    @AmericaFirstNow
    Even though the Israelis seemed to have known about the coming 9/11 attacks as conveyed in the following Scottish Sunday Herald article they did not carry out the attacks (Arabs did because of hatred for US support for Israel):


    Five Israelis Were Seen Filming
    As Jet Liners Ploughed Into
    The Twin Towers
    On September 11, 2001
    Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed
    the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned
    a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
    By Neil Mackay
    The Sunday Herald - UK
    11-2-3


    http://rense.com/general44/those.htm

    Is Giraldi brave enough to write about how 9-11 was an Israeli plot?

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    • Replies: @Art
    Is Giraldi brave enough to write about how 9-11 was an Israeli plot?

    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew. All logic leads to Jews. An re-investigation is coming.

    9/11 is the ultimate deep state act – 9/11 is your nightmare – 9/11 is not going away – 9/11 is building curiosity among the middle class. There are fewer and fewer people who will defend the government’s position. More than half the people would be OK with a further investigation.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  82. Lot says:
    @Logan
    I'm perfectly willing to consider this a premeditated attack by Israel to sink the American ship.

    Just don't see a motive for them to do so that would make it worth risking the obviously horrific potential downside.

    That’s because you are not a nutcase.

    The other problem is there is no way Israel could “frame Egypt” because it makes no sense for Egypt to attack a US ship. The dumb dumb derp of the Liberty Truthers has no bottom.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.
    , @Logan
    So what do you think the Israeli reason was for the attack? It made even less sense for them to attack an American ship than for the Egyptians to do so.

    Also, I wonder about the claims that the Israelis were trying to sink the ship and kill the entire crew. I get that the American crew was very brave and competent. But it's just really not that hard to sink a ship. People have been doing it for thousands of years.

    If they really intended to sink the Liberty, they don't seem to have brought the right equipment along. I'm not familiar with the weaponry the Israelis had available at the time, but it seems likely they had a number of weapons that would have sunk the ship right quickly.

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  83. Lot says:
    @Rurik

    Just don’t see a motive
     
    here's the motive for the Lavon Affair per Wiki

    The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, "unspecified malcontents" or "local nationalists" with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt's Suez Canal zone.[2]

    the motive for sinking the Liberty was clearly to bring the US into the war with Egypt on Israel's side. IOW to get the US to fight Israel's war.

    It's perfectly reasonable to posit that the attack on the Marine barracks in Lebanon was a Mossad operation with the same goal in mind, to get the US to fight Israel's enemy.

    Just as there is zero doubt at this point that the 9/11 attacks, if not perpetrated by the Mossad and CIA outright, were at the very least allowed to happen - by Israel- in order to create the necessary outrage in the American public (Pat Tillman- like) to get Americans to destroy all of Israel's rivals and enemies in the Middle East.

    Those 'seven countries" General Clark was talking about

    the similarities between the attack on the USS Liberty and 9/11 are terrifying, because as with both attacks, our government at the highest levels of the executive branch and military and intelligence agencies, including the entire length and breath of our MSM, were all willing to go along with the cover up.

    we know the USS Liberty was attacked deliberately with the intention to sink her with all hands. This is beyond dispute. We also know that the Israelis at the very least knew 9/11 was about to happen, and yet didn't warn us, and allowed those passengers and people in the towers to die, because it suited their agenda for them to die.

    That we all know. It is beyond dispute. We also know that in both cases the Jewish owned and controlled media covered up both crimes.

    now we live with it

    More excuses for Muslim terrorist killers. Are the endless Muslim killers who just randomly stab or run over tourists in the west, or suicide bomb the mosques of the other type of Muslims, are they all Mossad operatives too?

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    • Replies: @Max Payne
    Are you retarded?

    It's fucking 1967.... they fooled these ignorant fucks into Vietnam... you think it's hard to convince them with a statement like: "a bunch of A-rab dune coons attacked our ship! Nuke those bitches!"

    Really? With no access to internet or instant porn you think some American retard is going to be like "hey... wait... why would Egypt attack us?"

    Come on man........
    , @Max Payne
    Reminds of Nazi Germany. Just need the reverse images. Right into the sea.
    , @Logan
    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.

    But, then, what isn't?

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  84. @Rurik

    because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments.
     
    I hesitate sir, to even respond to your comment, out of a sincere, sacrosanct even ~ respect for your service and your efforts to see your shipmates honored.

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred, is so all-pervasive and insidious that it's worth pointing out that not everyone who criticizes Israel or the crimes of some Jews, harbors ill will towards Jews in general. That's an egregious blood libel, and a heinous lie intended to shield the crimes and criminals who also happen to be Jews, from justice.

    Asking why Israelis were dancing and celebrating the horrific attacks on 9/11 does not implicate your Jewish wife or cousin or friend as a criminal or terrorist. Just as pointing out the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty was an act of war, (and a war crime)- does not mean you want to push Ann Frank into an oven.

    But they create those memes deliberately so that no one is ever allowed to criticize any Jews anywhere lest it mean = you are Adolf Hitler reincarnated.

    There was, if I'm not mistaken a Jewish Israeli pilot that refused to participate in the attack on the Liberty. For that man to refuse orders, (like the Israeli 'refuseniks') must have required a decency and a strength of character that is rare in militaries the world over.

    How dare they imply that you are condemning that man too, just because you're demanding our government honor your fallen shipmates.

    Those who accuse someone like you of being motivated by racism- are without honor or decency, and I just wanted to make that point.

    Kudos sir for all you have done, and God speed.

    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie about the attack. In fact, if you go to the ADL web site and google my name, you will find this to be true. I have authored a book, “Liberty Injustices– A Survivor’s Account of American Bigotry”. I have captured various incidents that have occurred to me and the crew. Read my book! So unless you have walked in my shoes and experienced the name calling and harassment, please try to understand the hurt and embarrassment as the USS Liberty is the most decorated Navy ship for a single engagement and the Navy cannot name a new ship “Liberty” because it would offend certain people. America wake up!!!

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Mr. Gallo, I knew very little about the attack on the Liberty until I read articles that Phil Giraldi wrote several years ago. In 2016, several of us who "met" on this forum joined Giraldi at Arlington Cemetery to remember the men who were killed on that ship. We spoke their names and sounded a bell for each of them; they are not forgotten.

    It was an extraordinary experience to speak with the sisters and brothers of those men -- they were very young men, talented and eager and patriotic, when their lives were taken so treacherously. We felt the pain and loss, up close and personal. It changes a person to put a human face on the Liberty outrage.

    I am grateful to Giraldi for continuing to spend his energies and put himself on the line to inform others of the truths he has learned, and to motivate more of us to join him and the USS Liberty Veterans Association in the struggle to find justice for the men of the Liberty.

    , @Rurik

    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie
     
    'sigh'

    I just watched this video Mr. Gallo

    http://www.renegadetribune.com/uss-liberty-survivor-ernie-gallo-shares-story-israels-attack-america/

    (remove the space between the 'us s' for the link to work. I had to separate them to post this reply)

    I learned quite a bit I hadn’t known before. For instance I wasn’t aware of pres. Johnson saying he didn’t want his ally embarrassed before he was even told who had attacked the Liberty. So he obviously knew they were going to, and then the remark about how he didn’t care if the ship went to the bottom of the ocean, or something like that.

    I have to ‘sigh’ again.

    I was also glad to see the discussion include mention of the 9/11 false flag attack and of these people’s nefarious, insidious financial power going back to the world wars.

    so many things going though my mind…

    what was it like working for the CIA all those years? As you know, the author of this article is also “X”-CIA.

    I included the “X” in quotes to be flippant, but there are many of us laypeople who have this suspicion of the CIA, just like we do the NSA.

    Mr. Unz, the proprietor of this site, has wondered aloud if there isn’t some lingering resentment from some NSA guys over the Liberty incident.

    I can’t help but wonder.. where are the CIA and NSA people who know of the serial treachery of Israel, and how they’re able to get away with murdering NSA people and yet the NSA ranks stay in line.

    so many things going through my mind.

    Was Edward Snowden simply one NSA guy who couldn’t abide the shear evil of it all?

    Knowing that the entire organization was working for Israel at the direct expense of the American people? That the American people’s tax dollars are going to support a government that is our most deadly enemy?

    If 9/11 is any indication, it certainly seems like they have zero compunction about slaughtering us in the most horrific ways, just as Johnson spoke of the sailors on the Liberty. And always, always to benefit Israel, no matter what.

    Do you have any opinion about the Golan Heights? From what I understand, that was the main prize of the Six Day War. And indeed, it has seemed to me to the main reason for our serial destabilizations and wars in the Middle East of late. I believe that our government’s efforts, (at least pre-Trump) have been to see Syria utterly destroyed (just as Iraq and Libya were utterly destroyed) so that Israel can finally lay claim to the Golan Heights with full UN recognition.

    Any thoughts?

    Anyways, I want to repeat a heart felt thank you for all you’ve done and continue to do as an honest man of honor and who has clearly sacrificed so much in the battle for truth, both on behalf of the living and the dead (murdered and betrayed).

    I hope one day that the ‘sleeping giant’ you mention in the video will awaken, and with it a new hope for justice and peace in this world.

    God bless

    ps, it has long been my contention that we need to end the Federal Reserve Bank, as it has meant private, International bankers being in control of our Treasury- and therefor everything else of consequence, before we'll ever be able to fix anything else.
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  85. Rdm says:
    @Alden
    Are you trying to say that Israel should be able to control the entire Mediterranean Sea and none of the other Mediterranean countries or other nations should be able to use the Mediterranean Sea?

    As I remember the Liberty was nearest to Egypt, not Israel and in international waters when attacked.

    Better check the law of the sea and learn the difference between international waters and territorial waters.

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.

    This kind of baseless accusation is actually more prevalent than we would have imagined.

    If I say something against America, I am anti-American.
    If I say something good about America, I am pro-American.

    But in public, I can’t be standing on both sides. I must take side. That’s where problem kicks in. Democrats can’t be Republicans on some aspects and neither can Republicans. We must take sides completely.

    I’m neither Pro-American nor Pro-Israel. I say what I see. That gives me advantage on seeing things clearly rather than being clouded by pseudo-patriotism and blind allegiance.

    On the other post in Unz by Mike Whitney, we can see why NK lately became feisty with Nuke test.

    We don’t hear the other side of the story. We are constantly fed with the fat pig’s nuke testing.

    ————–

    Just because it’s international waters does not mean you can do whatever the heck you want.

    1. I park my car in front of your house although my car is slightly closer to your neighbors. Since it’s a public parking space, I do whatever I damn well please. In fact, I anchored my car right in the same spot for days with an intention of spying your every move. It also showed how big my balls are. You damn well know my intention and I know that you don’t like my intention of spying. Would you show your grace and let me do whatever I want or you want the world to know that you also have big balls?

    2. We’re now in a public gym. There’s no specific rules how much weight one should lift or how often one can do deadlift. Since I feel like I can do whatever the heck I want, I hog all the weight plates for my deadlifts for the entire day. I’m not against the policy, but I’m sort of walking over the edge of the policy to the extent that one can arguably say “Abusing the public space”. Of course I want other gym users to know how big my assholes are.

    You might as well learn “the Art of Provocation” and becomes a victim in public eyes.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    A rare approach on these threads when anything touching Israel is in issue!
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  86. @Rdm
    Here's a scenario.

    A stranger parked his car in front of your home in public parking space. A stranger has every right to park whatever he pleases. But you also have every right to get suspicious of the stranger's parking behavior. If the stranger never leaves his car, in the pretext of probing your activity in your home, would you feel content with his behavior? Would you rather stay home and pretend there's no stranger's car or would you rather confront the stranger because you damn well know that The Stranger used to go around the town, park his car wherever he damn well please and probe all people activities?

    What's strange is you never see those kinds of attack near California coastal waters or Hawaii or Guam. WHY? Those kinds of attacks on US only happened in waters near foreign countries.

    Since I'm your best friend, I will come and park my car in front of your house, radio-station your nightly canoodling with your wife. No one's wrong. But sure I'm your best friend snooping your nightly sex romp. But I felt immensely insulted when you won't let me listen to yours.

    If we make this a film, this gotta be a freaking best Keaton's show of all time.

    The lies from the Land Thieves never ends do they?
    The Liberty, of course was monitoring their war crimes in Egypt.

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  87. @ChuckOrloski
    Ernest,

    During the late-1980's, I taught an evening course at the University of Scranton Dexter Hanley college, titled "History of the Nuclear Age."

    One day while looking through available "used" works at the university bookstore, I purchased Captain James Eness Jr.'s "Assault on the USS Liberty" for $2.00.

    Although fearful of Israeli power over the U.S. since November 22, 1963, the "Assault on the USS Liberty" came as quite a shock to me. Naiive, I wondered why the barbaric attack was not mentioned while attending undergraduate history & political science lectures at a Jesuit university.

    Academia's betrayal made it sickenlingly easy for Israeli deception artists to make obvious historic & current event facts by no means obvious. You were honorable, militarily neat, and brave to appear at the American Legion convention and try to educate "belligerent" officers. Shame on them.

    Finally, while teaching the "History of the Nuclear Age" course at the U., I sent an (enthusiastic) complimentary letter to Captain James Ennes, Jr. In it was my description on how "Assault on the USS Liberty" was purchased (used) at a college bookstore fire sale! Rather quickly and with stoic humor, the Captain wrote me back and noted how his book managed to sink to another depth by the weapons of insouciance.

    A favor, Ernest

    Am unable to get a Google-search update on James E., and I sincerely hope his health is well. Have you any knowledge that can be shared here @ The U.R. comment department? So you know, the author Mr. Finkelstein (a self hating Jew to many) has recently written a terrific article on Captain Ennes & the USS Liberty serial murder. Thanks very much, & I trust he remains a noble "survivor" like you.

    ChuckOrloski — we are all getting up in age which means there is never a dull moment. As far as I know, Jim Ennes, the author of “Assault on the Liberty” is doing well. Thank God Jim wrote his book as it brought the crew together to form the USS Liberty Veterans Association. we consider him the father of our group. The fact that Jim published his book (1979) and did not get arrested, the crew realized that the gag order to never talk about the deliberate Israeli attack was not being enforced. Question: If the Governments of Israel and U.S. indicated that the attack was accidental, why would they order the crew to never talk about the attack even to our families? Wake up America!

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    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Ernest,

    I am very cynical and distrustful about the order for the Liberty crew to "never talk about the attack."

    Tel Aviv masters know that it is human nature to talk. For me, the Israeli "Lowerarchy" anticipated survivors to tell the ugly Liberty truth.

    This mass murder of American sailors also served as an experiment of just how open and "in-your-face" the Zionist lies could get without a general population challenge to their power.

    Please take for prime example how a goon squad put a beaten upon Christopher Bollyn while he did research on what became a book of unspeakable revelations, "Solving 9/11"? May God be with Mr. Bollyn, but had the CIA/Mossad wanted him silenced, such beating would be fatal.

    Thanks for the fascinating detail about the catalyst role undertaken by Jim Ennes, and the likelihood he is "doing well." To this day, I keep and treasure the brief note (on spiffy J.E. letterhead) that he mailed to me.

    I try & avoid being too didactic & poetic, but what remains of "America," perhaps one person at a time (?), has little choice but to become aware and realize that the grieving ghost of USS Liberty still sails, and now WE are the "crew...," of course in lethal harm's way, compliments of "the only democracy in the M.E."

    Thank you very much!
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  88. The “Cuckress”? They wish they could be serving in the Knesset Soon they will transfer all legislative work to Tel Aviv. I said before, no superpower in history has been so puppeteered as our nation. None….
    The cabals are at their peak, no one will reach their height any time soon

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  89. Flyod says:

    Find the Irgun terrorist and LBJ accomplice Mathilda Krim…she is still alive.

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    • Replies: @Sparkon
    Good lead. Thank you.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vPFItqwZK5o/maxresdefault.jpg

    President Johnson, an apparently energetic philanderer given the number and notoriety of his sexual exploits, was in Texas until June 1 when he returned with his "friend" Mathilde Krim who remained at the White House with Johnson for the next week. When Johnson, who was absolutely dazzled by Mathilde's blonde beauty and intelligence, was informed of the beginning of the war on the morning of June 5. The very first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Official records indicate that Mathilde passed documents from Israel directly to Johnson over the duration of the crisis. Johnson didn't meet with his advisors, except Walt Rostow, nor any Israeli or Arab officials during the duration of the very short war, he knew exactly what was going on with the Israelis due to his intimate relationship with Mathilde Krim.
     
    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/spingola/100604#ref1
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  90. @iffen
    not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut

    Yes, but they were killed by Muslims and not dem Jews. And it was Saint Reagan (or a subordinate, depending upon whom you want to believe) that expressly forbade the military commander from taking proper security measures. It's almost if the ghost of LBJ had prevented the military from defending itself in a military situation. But like I said it wasn't dem Jews, except of course, in the brains of conspiracy mongers, inc.

    It was another case of the US having to clean up an Israeli mess. Reagan made two mistakes: 1. Going into Lebanon to start with. 2. Taking sides and using the navy to shell Druze villages.

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  91. The stench of treason emanates from those who have backed Israel in this matter these last 50 years.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    The story of the illegal Iraq War is tightly related to the story of the USSLiberty. In both cases, the US servicemen were taken advantage by the US government and they were killed on the Israel-firsters' design: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/05/12/selective-intelligence
    http://theamericanfreedomparty.us/ziocons/
    "The awful situation that we are now confronted by in Iraq and Syria is the direct outcome of zionist actions within the American government supported by the 44 elected legislative zionists. There can be no reasonable disagreement with the fact that the Mossad provided all the miss-information about “Weapons of Mass Destruction” in Iraq, in order to solidify their “Eretz Israel” hegemonic expansion of the Middle East. Furthermore, the Iran diatribe on nuclear weapons is also a Ziocon presentation, as was the totally uncalled for constitutionally illegal war against Libya. Jews have dominated American Foreign policy for many decades and beginning in the late 20th century have also dominated domestic policy. Noteworthy is the undeniable fact that in every one of these nations Libya, Syria, and Iraq things are now far worse for the citizens as well as us, and then they were under previous governance."
    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0900paxamericana
    "February 19, 1998: Neoconservative Group Calls on US to Help Overthrow Hussein"
    The co-signers include Elliott Abrams, Richard Armitage, John Bolton, Stephen Bryen, Douglas Feith, Frank Gaffney, Fred Ikle, Robert Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad, William Kristol, Michael Ledeen, Bernard Lewis, Peter Rodman, Donald Rumsfeld, Gary Schmitt, Max Singer, Casper Weinberger, Paul Wolfowitz, David Wurmser, and Dov Zakheim. [CNN, 2/20/1998; MIDDLE EAST POLICY COUNCIL, 6/2004]
    The CPSG is closely affiliated with both the neoconservative Project for the New American Century (PNAC—see June 3, 1997 and January 26, 1998) and the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI), both of which boast Perle as a powerful and influential member."
    The road to hell (at least $6 trillion dollars and at least 4 million dead people, including a large number of children) was plotted by the American Israel-firsters: "The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” [WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/7/2002; CHICAGO SUN-TIMES, 3/6/2003] The paper, whose lead author is neoconservative Richard Perle, is meant to advise the new, right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Other authors include Richard Perle; Meyrav and David Wurmser, the future chief adviser for Dick Cheney; Douglas Feith, the prime architect of the Iraq war, et al. The paper advocates making a complete break with past policies by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism.…” [GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002]
    Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon (see February 1982), the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” the paper says."
    The beginning of this century witnessed a march of Jewish cannibals bent on destroying several functioning states (and slaughtering millions of people) to satisfy a dream of the mythological Eretz Israel.
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  92. @Ernest Gallo
    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie about the attack. In fact, if you go to the ADL web site and google my name, you will find this to be true. I have authored a book, "Liberty Injustices-- A Survivor's Account of American Bigotry". I have captured various incidents that have occurred to me and the crew. Read my book! So unless you have walked in my shoes and experienced the name calling and harassment, please try to understand the hurt and embarrassment as the USS Liberty is the most decorated Navy ship for a single engagement and the Navy cannot name a new ship "Liberty" because it would offend certain people. America wake up!!!

    Mr. Gallo, I knew very little about the attack on the Liberty until I read articles that Phil Giraldi wrote several years ago. In 2016, several of us who “met” on this forum joined Giraldi at Arlington Cemetery to remember the men who were killed on that ship. We spoke their names and sounded a bell for each of them; they are not forgotten.

    It was an extraordinary experience to speak with the sisters and brothers of those men — they were very young men, talented and eager and patriotic, when their lives were taken so treacherously. We felt the pain and loss, up close and personal. It changes a person to put a human face on the Liberty outrage.

    I am grateful to Giraldi for continuing to spend his energies and put himself on the line to inform others of the truths he has learned, and to motivate more of us to join him and the USS Liberty Veterans Association in the struggle to find justice for the men of the Liberty.

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  93. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Ronald Thomas West
    It's not the first time the American Legion has concealed history:

    "In 1933, the conspirators planned to recruit 500,000 military veterans from the First World War through various American Legion branches. They even pledged $3 million to buy weapons for their half-million man army so the troops could capture and hold the American capital. Once the seat of power was theirs, the plotters would install an ultra-nationalist and business-friendly regime modelled after Mussolini’s Italy"

    @ http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/02/25/the-business-plot-did-american-billionaires-plan-a-fascist-coup/

    I wonder how many of today's legion members are aware of Smedley Butler and his undoing a fascist coup plot to overthrow the USA's constitutional government. My guess would be not many.

    Wtf I love the American Legion now

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  94. Wade says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    It's not the first time the American Legion has concealed history:

    "In 1933, the conspirators planned to recruit 500,000 military veterans from the First World War through various American Legion branches. They even pledged $3 million to buy weapons for their half-million man army so the troops could capture and hold the American capital. Once the seat of power was theirs, the plotters would install an ultra-nationalist and business-friendly regime modelled after Mussolini’s Italy"

    @ http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/02/25/the-business-plot-did-american-billionaires-plan-a-fascist-coup/

    I wonder how many of today's legion members are aware of Smedley Butler and his undoing a fascist coup plot to overthrow the USA's constitutional government. My guess would be not many.

    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

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  95. Wally says:
    @Lot
    #winning

    http://ifamericaknew.org/images/FourMaps2.png

    But not #won.

    The world is now on to the evils of Zionism.

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  96. Art says:
    @Lot
    Is Giraldi brave enough to write about how 9-11 was an Israeli plot?

    Is Giraldi brave enough to write about how 9-11 was an Israeli plot?

    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew. All logic leads to Jews. An re-investigation is coming.

    9/11 is the ultimate deep state act – 9/11 is your nightmare – 9/11 is not going away – 9/11 is building curiosity among the middle class. There are fewer and fewer people who will defend the government’s position. More than half the people would be OK with a further investigation.

    Think Peace — Art

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  97. Wally says:
    @A guy
    One comes to expect this type of crass takkiyah from an Iran firster like Giraldi . Still , half a dozen articles in the past few months alone regarding the unfortunate Liberty accident and not even one regarding the intentional Iran backed attack on US Marines in Beirut that killed twice as many. Some Patriot .Do they pay by the word at takkiyah headquarters?

    Another hasbarist deflection which is irrelevant to the fact, which is …. “that shitty little country” attacked a known US ship.

    Besides, our guys wouldn’t have even been in Beirut if it wasn’t because of “that shitty little country”.

    The True Cost of Parasite Israel
    Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/

    Israeli occupied territories
    ‘Join the US army, Fight for Israel

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  98. Hibernian says:
    @Joe Franklin
    Here's the sleaze ball who ordered the USS Liberty anti-rescue effort and the cover up:

    http://5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    Our First Jewish President Lyndon Johnson

    Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffman's, apparently migrated to Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.

    According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish.

    These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines. Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin. John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

    Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman, who married Joseph Baines and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines, Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.

     

    Somewhere along the line a representative of this matrilineal line converyted to Christianity. LBJ was no more Jewish than Goldwater.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    Ahh, but Jewishness is a taint of the blood. Can't be gotten rid of by simple conversion.

    Would like to point out that the discussion you're responding to does not provide any evidence of Jewish ancestry, simply that the names in question were common Jewish names, which I have no way of knowing whether this is accurate or not.

    Many surnames are held by both Jews and Gentiles. Zimmerman, for instance.
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  99. @Camillus4AD
    Not this old saw again. This seems to be the Israel haters' go to conspiracy.

    read your history idiot

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  100. Wally says: • Website
    @A guy
    James Woods is a Zionist lmao !!!

    http://www.israellycool.com/2015/02/04/pro-israel-celebrity-of-the-day-james-woods/

    Do you still like him Wally ?
    Muh Codoh Muh Codoh lolol
    The holohoax never happened why won't anyone listen to meeeeee

    Obviously you are listening to me. LOL

    But indeed, they are listening.
    That’s why 16 European countries plus “that shitty little country” now arrest people for exercising free speech about the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.
    Only lies need such oppression.

    BTW, http://www.codoh.com is booming with readers.

    Oops.

    [MORE]

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    “We reached the [Balfour] Declaration not by miracles, but through persistent propaganda, through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people. We told the responsible authorities: We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not. You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.”

    - World Zionist leader [and future 1st President of Israël] Chaim Weizmann, speech in Jerusalem, December 1919.

    Read More
    • Replies: @A guy
    AI think if you only post that Codoh link one more time the elders of Zion will fess up and admit that the Holocaust never happened and pol pot was a Zionist Jew !!!!!

    Why do you post James Woods quotes , the guy is a huge Zionist lololol
    Muh Codoh muh holohoax . Even your heroes are Zionist lololol

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  101. Wally says:
    @Uslabor
    Looks like the snowflakes got your goat, too.

    Just saying, =).

    No, I got yours. Obviously

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  102. Hibernian says:
    @Lot
    That's because you are not a nutcase.

    The other problem is there is no way Israel could "frame Egypt" because it makes no sense for Egypt to attack a US ship. The dumb dumb derp of the Liberty Truthers has no bottom.

    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.
     
    True, but the antisemite conspiracy mongers don't accuse Israel of stupidity, but of being diabolical geniuses.

    Also, Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.

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  103. @Ernest Gallo
    ChuckOrloski -- we are all getting up in age which means there is never a dull moment. As far as I know, Jim Ennes, the author of "Assault on the Liberty" is doing well. Thank God Jim wrote his book as it brought the crew together to form the USS Liberty Veterans Association. we consider him the father of our group. The fact that Jim published his book (1979) and did not get arrested, the crew realized that the gag order to never talk about the deliberate Israeli attack was not being enforced. Question: If the Governments of Israel and U.S. indicated that the attack was accidental, why would they order the crew to never talk about the attack even to our families? Wake up America!

    Ernest,

    I am very cynical and distrustful about the order for the Liberty crew to “never talk about the attack.”

    Tel Aviv masters know that it is human nature to talk. For me, the Israeli “Lowerarchy” anticipated survivors to tell the ugly Liberty truth.

    This mass murder of American sailors also served as an experiment of just how open and “in-your-face” the Zionist lies could get without a general population challenge to their power.

    Please take for prime example how a goon squad put a beaten upon Christopher Bollyn while he did research on what became a book of unspeakable revelations, “Solving 9/11″? May God be with Mr. Bollyn, but had the CIA/Mossad wanted him silenced, such beating would be fatal.

    Thanks for the fascinating detail about the catalyst role undertaken by Jim Ennes, and the likelihood he is “doing well.” To this day, I keep and treasure the brief note (on spiffy J.E. letterhead) that he mailed to me.

    I try & avoid being too didactic & poetic, but what remains of “America,” perhaps one person at a time (?), has little choice but to become aware and realize that the grieving ghost of USS Liberty still sails, and now WE are the “crew…,” of course in lethal harm’s way, compliments of “the only democracy in the M.E.”

    Thank you very much!

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  104. peterAUS says:

    Tried to find a particular info and failed.
    Maybe somebody knowledgeable here could help.

    What was the chain of command for the ship/mission?

    Was it Captain->up the Navy chain of command?
    or
    Captain/whoever->up to “intelligence community” chain of command?

    Or, say, who “owned” the ship for that particular mission?
    “Intelligence community” or Navy?

    Yes, I do know about detaching/attaching/secondments/subordination etc.

    My experience in similar matters (nothing juicy, don’t get excited, simple stuff) is that when a, say, infantry unit is “given” to, say, “intelligence community” for some work, the mission chain of command is: unit CO/OC->”intelligence community” person during the mission/attachment/secondment/whatever.
    Say, light infantry platoon is “given” to “intelligence community” for a particular mission.
    OC gets operational orders from “intelligence community” person/persons, NOT from his, say, company/battalion/regiment.
    Reporting does go to the usual infantry chain of command, but, often not even that.
    The unit is effectively in “black hole” for the duration of the mission as far as platoon’s company/battalion/regiment is concerned.

    I know of similar examples re Navy boats.
    In short, the boat is “given” to the “intelligence community” for the duration of the mission.
    It simply “disappears” from Navy chain of command/reporting for that period.

    So, what was that chain of command in this case?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    My recollection is that, nearly a year ago, it was someone with the pseudonym Vendetta who gave a coherent account on UR of the stuff up version of what happened to the USS Liberty...
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  105. @Alden
    The Israelis would have checked for any pro American pilots and sent others.

    Well we know they didn’t succeed in finding and using that list of pilots who
    1. Hate America
    2. Couldn’t give a stuff about America
    3. Can be relied on not to notice American markings on a ship and wonder if they are really meant to attack it…. So..
    It gets me back to the question I see as critical whenever clever people are supposed to have planned an elaborate wrongdoing, namely, whether they have left it all to 13 year olds who can’t see all the things likely to go wrong.

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  106. @Rdm

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.
     
    This kind of baseless accusation is actually more prevalent than we would have imagined.

    If I say something against America, I am anti-American.
    If I say something good about America, I am pro-American.

    But in public, I can't be standing on both sides. I must take side. That's where problem kicks in. Democrats can't be Republicans on some aspects and neither can Republicans. We must take sides completely.

    I'm neither Pro-American nor Pro-Israel. I say what I see. That gives me advantage on seeing things clearly rather than being clouded by pseudo-patriotism and blind allegiance.

    On the other post in Unz by Mike Whitney, we can see why NK lately became feisty with Nuke test.

    We don't hear the other side of the story. We are constantly fed with the fat pig's nuke testing.

    --------------

    Just because it's international waters does not mean you can do whatever the heck you want.

    1. I park my car in front of your house although my car is slightly closer to your neighbors. Since it's a public parking space, I do whatever I damn well please. In fact, I anchored my car right in the same spot for days with an intention of spying your every move. It also showed how big my balls are. You damn well know my intention and I know that you don't like my intention of spying. Would you show your grace and let me do whatever I want or you want the world to know that you also have big balls?

    2. We're now in a public gym. There's no specific rules how much weight one should lift or how often one can do deadlift. Since I feel like I can do whatever the heck I want, I hog all the weight plates for my deadlifts for the entire day. I'm not against the policy, but I'm sort of walking over the edge of the policy to the extent that one can arguably say "Abusing the public space". Of course I want other gym users to know how big my assholes are.

    You might as well learn "the Art of Provocation" and becomes a victim in public eyes.

    A rare approach on these threads when anything touching Israel is in issue!

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  107. A guy says:
    @Wally
    Obviously you are listening to me. LOL

    But indeed, they are listening.
    That's why 16 European countries plus "that shitty little country" now arrest people for exercising free speech about the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'.
    Only lies need such oppression.

    BTW, www.codoh.com is booming with readers.

    Oops.

    "Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist
     

    "We reached the [Balfour] Declaration not by miracles, but through persistent propaganda, through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people. We told the responsible authorities: We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not. You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world."

    - World Zionist leader [and future 1st President of Israël] Chaim Weizmann, speech in Jerusalem, December 1919.
     

    AI think if you only post that Codoh link one more time the elders of Zion will fess up and admit that the Holocaust never happened and pol pot was a Zionist Jew !!!!!

    Why do you post James Woods quotes , the guy is a huge Zionist lololol
    Muh Codoh muh holohoax . Even your heroes are Zionist lololol

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    • Replies: @Wally
    No hero, just useful on certain points when needed.

    As for CODOH, thanks for mentioning it, I invite readers here to visit:

    www.codoh.com
    and
    https://forum.codoh.com

    The world is changing and panic stricken Zionists like 'A guy' don't like it one bit.

    We enjoy seeing the liars squirm.
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  108. @Alden
    Their masters and owners, AIPAC, ADL, AJC and the government of Israel ordered them to get involved in a ME war.

    A few years later Nixon and Kissinger air lifted every tank we had in Europe to Israeli to use in the 1973 war. That was the height of the Cold War.

    Your first par is surely anachronistic at best.

    Your second par. wreaks of the totally implausible. Half an hour’s reading, including Wikipedia on the Yom Kippur War has found that about 8000 tons of equipment (via Portuguese and Dutch territory) was received in Israel before the war ended (though vastly more in the next two or three months). The Soviet Union was resupplying Egypt and, initially, the US was refusing to resupply Israel. The US had already pressed Israel not to exercise its usual pre-emptive attack preference and resupply was seriously debated with reference to how much it would help the US to influence Israel or the Arabs and it seems that one factor may have been the Israelis preparing to go nuclear. In short there is not the slightest evidence even in 1973 of the kind of Israel First ownership of American policy you assert for 1967.

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  109. @peterAUS
    Tried to find a particular info and failed.
    Maybe somebody knowledgeable here could help.

    What was the chain of command for the ship/mission?

    Was it Captain->up the Navy chain of command?
    or
    Captain/whoever->up to "intelligence community" chain of command?

    Or, say, who "owned" the ship for that particular mission?
    "Intelligence community" or Navy?

    Yes, I do know about detaching/attaching/secondments/subordination etc.

    My experience in similar matters (nothing juicy, don't get excited, simple stuff) is that when a, say, infantry unit is "given" to, say, "intelligence community" for some work, the mission chain of command is: unit CO/OC->"intelligence community" person during the mission/attachment/secondment/whatever.
    Say, light infantry platoon is "given" to "intelligence community" for a particular mission.
    OC gets operational orders from "intelligence community" person/persons, NOT from his, say, company/battalion/regiment.
    Reporting does go to the usual infantry chain of command, but, often not even that.
    The unit is effectively in "black hole" for the duration of the mission as far as platoon's company/battalion/regiment is concerned.

    I know of similar examples re Navy boats.
    In short, the boat is "given" to the "intelligence community" for the duration of the mission.
    It simply "disappears" from Navy chain of command/reporting for that period.

    So, what was that chain of command in this case?

    My recollection is that, nearly a year ago, it was someone with the pseudonym Vendetta who gave a coherent account on UR of the stuff up version of what happened to the USS Liberty…

    Read More
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  110. @peterAUS

    it is hard to see any rational person planning an affair which would need the whole crew to be killed for success, especially as the means available and employed were inadequate
     
    Means employed were more than adequate.
    It's actually almost a miracle the ship stayed afloat and there were any survivors.

    Since introduction of air power history is full of examples of similar ships and less attack power being quite successful.

    Attacked: 7,725 long tons (7,849 t) (light) civilian cargo vessel
    Attackers:
    2 Mirage IIIs
    2 Mystères
    3 motor torpedo boats

    IMHO, just those torpedo boats should've been enough.
    Hell, just one actually.

    I invite you to outline the plan, using the means available, which would have promised the almost certain complete success which was, ex hypothesi, needed. Evidently the means available didn’t include adequate staff work did it?

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Not quite sure I understand the question, but, let's try.

    Firstly, this incident is a puzzle to me.
    I do not have a conclusive opinion about it.
    A lot of angles and neither makes much sense.

    And, also, haven't spent much time researching it, for a couple of reasons.
    The most important, my angle is always, as soon as 'intelligence community" is involved I am sure I won't be able to have a full picture. Ever.

    Having said that, here it is:

    Available assets , from ...horror...Wikipedia.
    2 Mirage IIIs (so, one pair, leader and wingman). That means ONE attack at the time.
    2 Mystères (same)
    3 motor torpedo boats

    METT-T/commander intent, in plain language:

    Outline: use the planes to find the ship and vector the torpedo boats on her.
    Ideally, try to slow her down from air (rocket/bomb her), damage command and control systems and self defense capability (strafe/rocket the bridge and the visible cannon/machine guns).
    Not that important, really.
    ONE torpedo should be enough. Just vector the torpedo boats in.
    Three boats, 2 tubes on each, each loaded.
    The boats should be able to approach regardless of speed, zig-zagging, and self-defense fire, and launch, say 2 torpedoes. Should be enough for her. One boat.
    If launch abort/miss/misfire/whatever, launch two again (another boat).

    The grim part: swimmers and boat guns. Crew personal guns even.

    Now, even in this scenario anything could've happened.
    Say, Israelis were on a tight timetable, their command and control, especially coordinating Air Force and Navy wasn't working well. Airplanes could've had technical difficulties, pilots could've made mistakes (inexperienced, tired....). The same for Israeli Navy.
    One other thing.
    Attacking sea targets from air is not easy. Demands special training. Not going into details. But, quite positive that Israeli Air Force at the time wasn't that good at that. I mean, the main effort was in air/on land. Anyway....

    Still, personally, just don't get this incident.

    My simple gut feeling is that was a tragedy of errors by all parties involved. Almost "perfect storm" of errors.

    I do get the coverup.
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  111. Miro23 says:
    @Alden
    Are you trying to say that Israel should be able to control the entire Mediterranean Sea and none of the other Mediterranean countries or other nations should be able to use the Mediterranean Sea?

    As I remember the Liberty was nearest to Egypt, not Israel and in international waters when attacked.

    Better check the law of the sea and learn the difference between international waters and territorial waters.

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.

    The combination of ignorance and arrogance of anti American Israel Firsters is truly astounding.

    A better analogy would be your homeowner leaving his home, driving 5 miles away and murdering a random person sitting in his parked car.

    Or your psychopathic home occupier attempting (and failing) to murder the person outside in the parked car and blame it on the targeted people next door.

    The badly wounded car driver tries to tell his story but is told to shut up by the psychopath’s influential friends (who in fact ordered the car driver to park outside the house and set him up).

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  112. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I invite you to outline the plan, using the means available, which would have promised the almost certain complete success which was, ex hypothesi, needed. Evidently the means available didn't include adequate staff work did it?

    Not quite sure I understand the question, but, let’s try.

    Firstly, this incident is a puzzle to me.
    I do not have a conclusive opinion about it.
    A lot of angles and neither makes much sense.

    And, also, haven’t spent much time researching it, for a couple of reasons.
    The most important, my angle is always, as soon as ‘intelligence community” is involved I am sure I won’t be able to have a full picture. Ever.

    Having said that, here it is:

    Available assets , from …horror…Wikipedia.
    2 Mirage IIIs (so, one pair, leader and wingman). That means ONE attack at the time.
    2 Mystères (same)
    3 motor torpedo boats

    METT-T/commander intent, in plain language:

    Outline: use the planes to find the ship and vector the torpedo boats on her.
    Ideally, try to slow her down from air (rocket/bomb her), damage command and control systems and self defense capability (strafe/rocket the bridge and the visible cannon/machine guns).
    Not that important, really.
    ONE torpedo should be enough. Just vector the torpedo boats in.
    Three boats, 2 tubes on each, each loaded.
    The boats should be able to approach regardless of speed, zig-zagging, and self-defense fire, and launch, say 2 torpedoes. Should be enough for her. One boat.
    If launch abort/miss/misfire/whatever, launch two again (another boat).

    The grim part: swimmers and boat guns. Crew personal guns even.

    Now, even in this scenario anything could’ve happened.
    Say, Israelis were on a tight timetable, their command and control, especially coordinating Air Force and Navy wasn’t working well. Airplanes could’ve had technical difficulties, pilots could’ve made mistakes (inexperienced, tired….). The same for Israeli Navy.
    One other thing.
    Attacking sea targets from air is not easy. Demands special training. Not going into details. But, quite positive that Israeli Air Force at the time wasn’t that good at that. I mean, the main effort was in air/on land. Anyway….

    Still, personally, just don’t get this incident.

    My simple gut feeling is that was a tragedy of errors by all parties involved. Almost “perfect storm” of errors.

    I do get the coverup.

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  113. @Ernest Gallo
    As a survivor of this deliberate Israeli attack on June 8, 1967, I commend and deeply appreciate Philip Giraldi's article. I was one of the two Liberty 2012 convention participants to obtain a booth. Our purpose was to pass out literature regarding the attack and the lack of empathy from our politicians. I can assure you that the American Legion officers were very belligerent and nasty as they escorted us out of the building. I guess our words were too dangerous to the American Legion members.

    This incident is only one of many the Liberty crew has endured because of our Government's deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments. We only want justice especially for our 34 shipmates who were murdered and the attempted murder of 294 Americans serving on the Liberty which was completing an intelligence mission that day.

    Thanks again Phil and I hope your readers will take heed and help us. Ernest Gallo, President, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    Ernest et al. : It is truly remarkable that you all have kept this infamous piece of our history alive for 50 years, so that those of us who were not alive then can know of it and remember it for generations to come. A day of reckoning will come for Israel and all the treasonous bastards in our government who have enabled her to the detriment of our own citizens, and many of us will line up to string them from the nearest tree, and it will be because of your sacrifices and efforts over these years.

    I am enough of an optimist to believe that we can seize our country back from the scourge of the Jewish Lobby and their many treasonous puppets in my lifetime. Until that day comes, I salute you and your fellow patriots. Your sacrifice should not be in vain, if there is ever to be any justice in this nation of ours.

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  114. @Lot
    #winning

    http://ifamericaknew.org/images/FourMaps2.png

    A Pyrrhic victory, at best. What follows will smack that gloating grin off your face.

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  115. Alfred says:

    It might interest readers to know that this article is being trashed by Facebook.

    If you try to post the link http://www.unz.com/article/the-united-states-of-manufactured-hysteria/ to Facebook, the title and photo do not appear.

    I worked around this problem by getting a link from http://TinyUrl.com and posting that to Facebook – this worked nicely and the photo and title were displayed.

    I tested as to whether the whole of unz.com was being blacklisted by trying a link to another article. This worked with no problem.

    I can only conclude the Zionist who owns much of Facebook does not want the activities of Israel to be exposed. :)

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  116. Sparkon says:
    @Flyod
    Find the Irgun terrorist and LBJ accomplice Mathilda Krim...she is still alive.

    Good lead. Thank you.

    President Johnson, an apparently energetic philanderer given the number and notoriety of his sexual exploits, was in Texas until June 1 when he returned with his “friend” Mathilde Krim who remained at the White House with Johnson for the next week. When Johnson, who was absolutely dazzled by Mathilde’s blonde beauty and intelligence, was informed of the beginning of the war on the morning of June 5. The very first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Official records indicate that Mathilde passed documents from Israel directly to Johnson over the duration of the crisis. Johnson didn’t meet with his advisors, except Walt Rostow, nor any Israeli or Arab officials during the duration of the very short war, he knew exactly what was going on with the Israelis due to his intimate relationship with Mathilde Krim.

    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/spingola/100604#ref1

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    "Official records". Primary evidence citations please.
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  117. Max Payne says:
    @Lot
    More excuses for Muslim terrorist killers. Are the endless Muslim killers who just randomly stab or run over tourists in the west, or suicide bomb the mosques of the other type of Muslims, are they all Mossad operatives too?

    Are you retarded?

    It’s fucking 1967…. they fooled these ignorant fucks into Vietnam… you think it’s hard to convince them with a statement like: “a bunch of A-rab dune coons attacked our ship! Nuke those bitches!”

    Really? With no access to internet or instant porn you think some American retard is going to be like “hey… wait… why would Egypt attack us?”

    Come on man……..

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  118. Max Payne says:
    @Lot
    More excuses for Muslim terrorist killers. Are the endless Muslim killers who just randomly stab or run over tourists in the west, or suicide bomb the mosques of the other type of Muslims, are they all Mossad operatives too?

    Reminds of Nazi Germany. Just need the reverse images. Right into the sea.

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  119. Eagle Eye says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson...
     
    Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11.

    As for "the power of the Israel Lobby," the case of the attempted sinking of the Liberty proves nothing. The assumption that the attack was instigated by Israel remains to be demonstrated. What if it were instigated not by Israel, but by the US? Then it would be a case analogous to the putative role of Israelis in 9/11, as agents of the US Government, doing the dirty work of the war criminals in the US government. In that case, LBJ, in covering for Israel, was covering his own arse.


    Whether Congress can be induced to do the right thing by the Liberty remains to be seen...
     
    Forget it. Nothing of the kind will be seen.

    Re-read the following lines from the article, remembering that whatever the U.S. public was told at the time or later, the U.S. military and U.S. intelligence agencies (NSA) knew in virtually real time – through electronic surveillance and conventional humint – that Israeli planes and ships were involved in the attack.

    It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time.

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with torpedo boats from the sea.

    The Israelis, of course, would have known that the U.S. government could not be fooled. Quite possibly, Israel acted under U.S. orders.

    Again – re-read the following line, remembering that the unstated SUBJECT of this sentence is a Democratic president, LBJ, who:

    (1) probably had his predecessor assassinated; (2) was also responsible for the Gulf of Tonkin incident (false flag op to ramp up the Vietnam war) and (3) ordered the USS Pueblo incident (deliberate provocation of North Korea).

    The cover-up of the attack began immediately.

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    remembering that the unstated SUBJECT of this sentence is a Democratic president, LBJ, who:

    (1) probably had his predecessor assassinated; (2) was also responsible for the Gulf of Tonkin incident (false flag op to ramp up the Vietnam war) and (3) ordered the USS Pueblo incident (deliberate provocation of North Korea).
     
    The best thing about the Johnson presidency was the manner of its ending. Johnson was forced out by the brothers and sisters, friends and lovers of the hundreds of thousands of young men conscripted to fight a criminal war of aggression in Vietnam. Those young people gathered outside the White House and chanted:

    LBJ, LBJ. How many kids did you killed today.
     
    That was the seen at the time, I believe correctly, as the determining factor in Johnson's decision not to run in '68.
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  120. @Wally
    Gee, we thought you'd be out smashing statues or staging 'neo-Nazi' things.

    ANTIFA = vegan ISIS.

    BLM = ISIS on crack

    James Woods on driving snowflakes insane:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/99db67415ea4adb0c769826892415341dab98e10f10eb61cef228208903b6308.jpg?w=600&h=512

    Yeah Wally, I do keep busy but not propping up identity politics. Here’s an (off topic) work Phil might (or not) appreciate that had kept me busy, so sorry for the late reply … Wally, you’re a sorry moron

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2017/09/06/akamai-tree/

    ^

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    You're in denial of your own behavior, You are best described as a hapless race pimp, low IQ specimen pretending to be smart.
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  121. “Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11″. Look, a plane can´t bring down a steel building. That´s impossible ! And it´s even more imposible that 2 planes can bring down 3 steel buildings. But NANO-THERMITE can and did, it was found by scientists, one of them Dr Niels Harrit, Uni of Copenhagen. Remember the dancing Israeli “art students” “who were there to document the event ???” Did OBL have access to nano-thermite? Nobody has claimed that. Where did it come from in the three buildings ? At any rate, Israel gained most from 9/11.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    I have worked for many years in fire restoration. One of the more interesting effects is what fire does to steel. Steel has to get really, really hot to melt, 1500C. But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    I have seen many steel I-beams that just slumped under their own weight, much like a licorice stick held by one end. That's from a "normal" fire burning building materials, not one accelerated by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&oq=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&gs_l=psy-ab.3.

    What do you think happens when steel pillars holding up multiple stories above them suddenly lose their strength and stiffness?

    http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/materialInFire/Steel/default.htm

    Interestingly, steel that is heated enough to soften it, then cooled properly becomes much stronger.

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  122. Logan says:
    @Lot
    That's because you are not a nutcase.

    The other problem is there is no way Israel could "frame Egypt" because it makes no sense for Egypt to attack a US ship. The dumb dumb derp of the Liberty Truthers has no bottom.

    So what do you think the Israeli reason was for the attack? It made even less sense for them to attack an American ship than for the Egyptians to do so.

    Also, I wonder about the claims that the Israelis were trying to sink the ship and kill the entire crew. I get that the American crew was very brave and competent. But it’s just really not that hard to sink a ship. People have been doing it for thousands of years.

    If they really intended to sink the Liberty, they don’t seem to have brought the right equipment along. I’m not familiar with the weaponry the Israelis had available at the time, but it seems likely they had a number of weapons that would have sunk the ship right quickly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Did a little more research. Apparently they fired a number of torpedoes, only one of which hit the ship, but which blew a 40' hole in the side. Obviously adequate equipment to sink the ship had it not hit where it did.

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    I do know that "fog of war" has led to even more bizarre incidents of misidentification and "friendly fire."

    , @Lot
    Not just "a ship" but a smallish unarmed ship in a surpise attack.

    They have another theory that they wanted to stop the ship from gathering intel. They just can't decide on one stupid conspiracy theory. Also JFK was killed by the Mob, the FBI, the CIA, the Russians, LBJ, the US military, the Jews, etc.
    , @truthtellerAryan
    It's called " manufacturing a reason " You said it, Egypt had a justified reason to do it, so Jooies are quick to act because the "usual suspect " is already established. They didn't finish the job, as LBJ would have liked. We are still debating, with all the proof we have, whether Jews can ever do wrong!!!!!!
    Exactly the same for 911. By the time the truth comes out ( never in this bondage), the mission would be accomplished.... The dead Iraqis, Afghanis, Libyans, Syrians, won't come back to see justice ......
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  123. Logan says:
    @Claus Eric Hamle
    "Just as the USAF was stood down on 9/11". Look, a plane can´t bring down a steel building. That´s impossible ! And it´s even more imposible that 2 planes can bring down 3 steel buildings. But NANO-THERMITE can and did, it was found by scientists, one of them Dr Niels Harrit, Uni of Copenhagen. Remember the dancing Israeli "art students" "who were there to document the event ???" Did OBL have access to nano-thermite? Nobody has claimed that. Where did it come from in the three buildings ? At any rate, Israel gained most from 9/11.

    I have worked for many years in fire restoration. One of the more interesting effects is what fire does to steel. Steel has to get really, really hot to melt, 1500C. But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    I have seen many steel I-beams that just slumped under their own weight, much like a licorice stick held by one end. That’s from a “normal” fire burning building materials, not one accelerated by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&oq=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&gs_l=psy-ab.3.

    What do you think happens when steel pillars holding up multiple stories above them suddenly lose their strength and stiffness?

    http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/materialInFire/Steel/default.htm

    Interestingly, steel that is heated enough to soften it, then cooled properly becomes much stronger.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Logan,

    A question.

    As you specialize in "fire restoration," can you offer a reason why London's burning Grenfell Tower did not collapse (in seconds) like the three (3) W.T.C. towers into "pancakes"?

    I assume you consider the tragic ( long burning ) Grenfell Tower fire as "normal" and it did not collapse into its footprint due to an absence of "thousands of gallons of jet fuel" as primary fuel accelerant.

    Thanks and I respectfully await your professional response.

    Post scriptum: My apology to commenters for taking this very important Liberty article off topic. However, and in contrast to the incredible collapse of the three (3) W.T.C. towers, one can observe pictures that show how the Grenfell Tower steel did not lose "strength and stiffness." Full disclosure, I suggest that the London tower fire offers evidence pointing to the fact that supplemental explosive materials were used to
    cause a free fall of all three (3) towers on 9/11.
    , @Erebus

    But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.
     
    UL apparently gave the steel in the WTC a 6hr @1100C (2000F) rating. Judging by the colour of the smoke, the publicly released firefighters' radio comms, and the people seen standing around at the impact hole, the idea that the fires reached sufficient temperature for sufficient time to cause any materially significant rise in structural steel temps seems far-fetched. Floor joists/pans? Maybe. Perimeter columns? Not even close. Central core columns? Not even close to not even close.

    BTW, the total amount of jet fuel that may have gone into the building would have covered one occupancy floor (not incl core) to about 3mm (1/8"). Kerosene (aka Jet Fuel) burns at <400C (750F) in open air. The fires were obviously oxygen starved so the burn temps were significantly lower.
    For a real life scale test, take a steel bucket and punch a few holes around the sides. Pour in kerosene to 3mm, put a sheet steel lid and and a 1" patio stone on top. For good measure, put a few pieces of 200mmx6mm (8"x1/4") re-bar or redi-rod inside. Light, and watch what happens. I can tell you what happens. Lots of smoke, a hot, blackened bucket, and not much else. The patio stone barely gets warm. The rebar is black but still quite tough. Quite boring, as these sorts of experiments go.
    , @MEexpert
    Assuming your assumptions are correct. Questions:

    Did the temperature for the entire building rise to the softening level instantaneously? Or could it? Obviously not. With so many floors and different materials that is totally impossible. Would such a high building come down in a manner of controlled demolition? The steel used in Twin Towers was very strength steel. We still have a 64 -thousand dollar question. How did Tower 7 come down?
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  124. Logan says:
    @Logan
    So what do you think the Israeli reason was for the attack? It made even less sense for them to attack an American ship than for the Egyptians to do so.

    Also, I wonder about the claims that the Israelis were trying to sink the ship and kill the entire crew. I get that the American crew was very brave and competent. But it's just really not that hard to sink a ship. People have been doing it for thousands of years.

    If they really intended to sink the Liberty, they don't seem to have brought the right equipment along. I'm not familiar with the weaponry the Israelis had available at the time, but it seems likely they had a number of weapons that would have sunk the ship right quickly.

    Did a little more research. Apparently they fired a number of torpedoes, only one of which hit the ship, but which blew a 40′ hole in the side. Obviously adequate equipment to sink the ship had it not hit where it did.

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    I do know that “fog of war” has led to even more bizarre incidents of misidentification and “friendly fire.”

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    • Replies: @Art
    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    Hasbara logic!

    Why would one torpedo a ship if one didn't intend to sink it?

    Think Peace --- Art

    p.s. Those Jews are so smart.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Yes there are a lot of possible complexities (including the trivial but ultimately critical) that some want to sweep out of consideration. I wonder how often it has been assumed that you simply can't rely on what you think are the flags or markings of an ally not to be the false flags so beloved of many UR commenters (and sometimes the reality, as are trolls). On the same line of thought, how well trained would Israeli pilots have been on ship markings?
    , @Gilles
    "But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning."

    Because the Liberty crew were able to jury rig an antenna and restore comm, enough to dispatch a successful distress message, most certainly intercepted by Israeli forces despite their jamming.

    What else explains the sudden cessation of the attack and offer of assistance from the torpedo boat crew, smartly rejected by McGonagle.

    Gilles
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  125. Logan says:
    @Lot
    More excuses for Muslim terrorist killers. Are the endless Muslim killers who just randomly stab or run over tourists in the west, or suicide bomb the mosques of the other type of Muslims, are they all Mossad operatives too?

    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.

    But, then, what isn’t?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.
    But, then, what isn’t?
     
    Only unz.com. Oh wait...
    , @anon
    1 n Israeli-US organisation has set up a school in the northern Syria governorate of Idlib, which is under the control of armed groups [terrorists], Russia Today reported on Monday. The Israeli syllabus is being taught in the school, with textbooks intended to provide Syrian pupils with a different perspective about Israel.
    An Israeli news website reported that the school has 90 Syrian pupils and 15 teachers. It is an addition to two similar schools which have been established in areas controlled by the armed groups near the borders of the occupied Golan Heights.
    Businessman Moti Kahana, a former Israeli air force soldier who holds dual Israeli-US citizenships, is the head of the organisation


    2 Libyan security forces have arrested a Mossad agent who held a leading position in Daesh in the north-eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, the Israeli website Inian Merkazi reported.
    The Hebrew website whose name translates to “Central Issues”, added that Ephraim Benjamin is a Jewish spy and that he mingled with Libyans following the 2011 revolution that resulted in the ouster of former dictator Moammer Ghaddafi.
    Masr Alarabia website described him as one of Mossad’s “Arabists” who are characterised by Arab features and who speak Arabic fluently in local dialects.
    Israeli Arabists are known for infiltrating Palestinian protests and arresting demonstrators, as well as assassinating anti-occupation Palestinian activists, according to Masr Alarabia.
    Benjamin had reportedly become a prominent imam of a large mosque in Benghazi, Libya’s second largest city, then he became a Daesh leader who commanded 200 fighters from the militant group. https://www.middleeastmonitor
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  126. John Hawk says:

    Phil, another brilliant recapitulation of the USS Liberty history. On June 9, 1967, a small group of post-BA students of Middle East history and languages, sat with our professor (a young PhD from a top-notch Middle East university) in the cafeteria of the prestigious East Coast university where we were in residence, and were told in detail and matter-of-factly about the USS Liberty attack and then betrayal of its crew. From my memory bank, our professor said that he had received a call from a colleague of his, (an individual who represented the major Middle East ally of the US government) who then told him in detail about an attack on an American ship by the only country in the Middle East who could have done so. I have carried this information for 50 years, and when I can, I have always called out the bravery of the USS Liberty crew, and the treasonous treachery of the cover-up artists in the White House and the U S Navy. The American Legion resolution, commendable as it is, is too little, too late.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    Where I used to work decades ago, there was a guy who said they had monitored the attack from the U.S. military communications base in Asmara, Ethiopia.
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  127. The cover up coincided with the Six Day War. The attack was a part of that War.

    The Six Day War was not just a war, it was a remaking of the US relationship with Israel, and a remaking of the self image of many Jews. It was a paradigm shift.

    That massive political shift was an important motivator of the cover up. They were part and parcel of the same political event.

    That whole shift has now been shown to be a propaganda stunt that has cost the US dearly. Perhaps push back on the USS Liberty could help reverse that, but it will run into intense opposition not just about the event but about what the War changed.

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  128. Wally says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    Yeah Wally, I do keep busy but not propping up identity politics. Here's an (off topic) work Phil might (or not) appreciate that had kept me busy, so sorry for the late reply ... Wally, you're a sorry moron

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2017/09/06/akamai-tree/

    ^

    You’re in denial of your own behavior, You are best described as a hapless race pimp, low IQ specimen pretending to be smart.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Projection, projection, projection...
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  129. Lot says:
    @Logan
    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.

    But, then, what isn't?

    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.
    But, then, what isn’t?

    Only unz.com. Oh wait…

    Read More
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  130. Lot says:
    @Logan
    So what do you think the Israeli reason was for the attack? It made even less sense for them to attack an American ship than for the Egyptians to do so.

    Also, I wonder about the claims that the Israelis were trying to sink the ship and kill the entire crew. I get that the American crew was very brave and competent. But it's just really not that hard to sink a ship. People have been doing it for thousands of years.

    If they really intended to sink the Liberty, they don't seem to have brought the right equipment along. I'm not familiar with the weaponry the Israelis had available at the time, but it seems likely they had a number of weapons that would have sunk the ship right quickly.

    Not just “a ship” but a smallish unarmed ship in a surpise attack.

    They have another theory that they wanted to stop the ship from gathering intel. They just can’t decide on one stupid conspiracy theory. Also JFK was killed by the Mob, the FBI, the CIA, the Russians, LBJ, the US military, the Jews, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    From what I've read, the ship wasn't entirely unarmed. They had several 50 cal machine guns and possibly other arms.

    This is, of course, very light armament for a warship. And it appears they never really tried to fight back.
    , @Logan
    One Conspiracy to Rule Them All, One Conspiracy to Find Them, One Conspiracy to Bring Them All, and in the Darkness Bind Them.
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  131. @Logan
    I have worked for many years in fire restoration. One of the more interesting effects is what fire does to steel. Steel has to get really, really hot to melt, 1500C. But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    I have seen many steel I-beams that just slumped under their own weight, much like a licorice stick held by one end. That's from a "normal" fire burning building materials, not one accelerated by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&oq=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&gs_l=psy-ab.3.

    What do you think happens when steel pillars holding up multiple stories above them suddenly lose their strength and stiffness?

    http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/materialInFire/Steel/default.htm

    Interestingly, steel that is heated enough to soften it, then cooled properly becomes much stronger.

    Logan,

    A question.

    As you specialize in “fire restoration,” can you offer a reason why London’s burning Grenfell Tower did not collapse (in seconds) like the three (3) W.T.C. towers into “pancakes”?

    I assume you consider the tragic ( long burning ) Grenfell Tower fire as “normal” and it did not collapse into its footprint due to an absence of “thousands of gallons of jet fuel” as primary fuel accelerant.

    Thanks and I respectfully await your professional response.

    Post scriptum: My apology to commenters for taking this very important Liberty article off topic. However, and in contrast to the incredible collapse of the three (3) W.T.C. towers, one can observe pictures that show how the Grenfell Tower steel did not lose “strength and stiffness.” Full disclosure, I suggest that the London tower fire offers evidence pointing to the fact that supplemental explosive materials were used to
    cause a free fall of all three (3) towers on 9/11.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    I have never made a claim of expertise in fire forensics, just in cleaning up and repairing after them.

    I have no idea why the Grenfell Tower didn't collapse. Perhaps its supports were reinforced concrete rather than structural steel. Entirely different materials, especially when the cellulose-based fireproofing has been blown off the steel columns by an explosion. Reinforced concrete presumably maintains compressive strength better than raw steel in a fire, but, again, I'm no expert on that.

    Also, the Grenfell Tower appeared to mostly be burning on the outside of the building, which may not be the main support structures. I do know that the airspace behind the flammable panels acted as a chimney and greatly accelerated the fire. Presumably the only materials present to burn inside the apartments were "normal" household stuff, with normally creates temps of 600C to 1100C. Not nearly as hot as jet fuel, which burns at 800C to 1500C.

    I don't claim to know what happened either place, but I do know that hot steel columns lose their strength. As can be seen in the images I linked to.

    Do you have evidence that the two structures were built using comparable materials and methods? If they weren't, then there's no reason to expect them to behave similarly in a fire, especially given the absence in London of a major impact and of the jet fuel.

    I'll have to go now. Just got my monthly check from Mossad and am going out on the town!

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  132. Rurik says: • Website
    @Ernest Gallo
    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie about the attack. In fact, if you go to the ADL web site and google my name, you will find this to be true. I have authored a book, "Liberty Injustices-- A Survivor's Account of American Bigotry". I have captured various incidents that have occurred to me and the crew. Read my book! So unless you have walked in my shoes and experienced the name calling and harassment, please try to understand the hurt and embarrassment as the USS Liberty is the most decorated Navy ship for a single engagement and the Navy cannot name a new ship "Liberty" because it would offend certain people. America wake up!!!

    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie

    ‘sigh’

    I just watched this video Mr. Gallo

    http://www.renegadetribune.com/uss-liberty-survivor-ernie-gallo-shares-story-israels-attack-america/

    (remove the space between the ‘us s’ for the link to work. I had to separate them to post this reply)

    I learned quite a bit I hadn’t known before. For instance I wasn’t aware of pres. Johnson saying he didn’t want his ally embarrassed before he was even told who had attacked the Liberty. So he obviously knew they were going to, and then the remark about how he didn’t care if the ship went to the bottom of the ocean, or something like that.

    I have to ‘sigh’ again.

    I was also glad to see the discussion include mention of the 9/11 false flag attack and of these people’s nefarious, insidious financial power going back to the world wars.

    so many things going though my mind…

    what was it like working for the CIA all those years? As you know, the author of this article is also “X”-CIA.

    I included the “X” in quotes to be flippant, but there are many of us laypeople who have this suspicion of the CIA, just like we do the NSA.

    Mr. Unz, the proprietor of this site, has wondered aloud if there isn’t some lingering resentment from some NSA guys over the Liberty incident.

    I can’t help but wonder.. where are the CIA and NSA people who know of the serial treachery of Israel, and how they’re able to get away with murdering NSA people and yet the NSA ranks stay in line.

    so many things going through my mind.

    Was Edward Snowden simply one NSA guy who couldn’t abide the shear evil of it all?

    Knowing that the entire organization was working for Israel at the direct expense of the American people? That the American people’s tax dollars are going to support a government that is our most deadly enemy?

    If 9/11 is any indication, it certainly seems like they have zero compunction about slaughtering us in the most horrific ways, just as Johnson spoke of the sailors on the Liberty. And always, always to benefit Israel, no matter what.

    Do you have any opinion about the Golan Heights? From what I understand, that was the main prize of the Six Day War. And indeed, it has seemed to me to the main reason for our serial destabilizations and wars in the Middle East of late. I believe that our government’s efforts, (at least pre-Trump) have been to see Syria utterly destroyed (just as Iraq and Libya were utterly destroyed) so that Israel can finally lay claim to the Golan Heights with full UN recognition.

    Any thoughts?

    Anyways, I want to repeat a heart felt thank you for all you’ve done and continue to do as an honest man of honor and who has clearly sacrificed so much in the battle for truth, both on behalf of the living and the dead (murdered and betrayed).

    I hope one day that the ‘sleeping giant’ you mention in the video will awaken, and with it a new hope for justice and peace in this world.

    God bless

    ps, it has long been my contention that we need to end the Federal Reserve Bank, as it has meant private, International bankers being in control of our Treasury- and therefor everything else of consequence, before we’ll ever be able to fix anything else.

    Read More
    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @Rurik
    slightly off topic, but I just read that Stanley Fisher is stepping down as vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

    here's his Wiki page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Fischer

    please just check out the short bio at the right of the page to see why and how our country and its institutions have all been corrupted into the service of Zionism.

    also note that the link that takes you to the Wiki page for the Federal Reserve System precedes the Federal with - U.S., but that's really a lie, because the Federal Reserve Bank/System is not part of the U.S. government, but is rather a consortium of ((International Bankers)) working on behalf of their own separate agenda (total global power). As Alan Greenspan put it.. well, let's just let him say it himself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-8pJuCkcjg

    over two trillion$ is missing from the Pentagon during 9/11 mastermind Dov Zakheim's tenure as Pentagon comptroller alone, and there's zero interest in finding out where that money went.

    Both world wars, the attack on the USS Liberty and subsequent cover-up, 9/11 and all the subsequent wars...

    are all a consequence of Zionist Jews having the key to the US treasury. With zero oversight.

    Like Chuck, I'm sorry to get off topic here, but when I read of the Vice Chairman's resignation, this whole thing came full circle for me, and I just wanted to share that.
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  133. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Logan
    There are indeed guys out there who believe ISIS and all the terror groups are controlled by the Jews.

    But, then, what isn't?

    1 n Israeli-US organisation has set up a school in the northern Syria governorate of Idlib, which is under the control of armed groups [terrorists], Russia Today reported on Monday. The Israeli syllabus is being taught in the school, with textbooks intended to provide Syrian pupils with a different perspective about Israel.
    An Israeli news website reported that the school has 90 Syrian pupils and 15 teachers. It is an addition to two similar schools which have been established in areas controlled by the armed groups near the borders of the occupied Golan Heights.
    Businessman Moti Kahana, a former Israeli air force soldier who holds dual Israeli-US citizenships, is the head of the organisation

    2 Libyan security forces have arrested a Mossad agent who held a leading position in Daesh in the north-eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, the Israeli website Inian Merkazi reported.
    The Hebrew website whose name translates to “Central Issues”, added that Ephraim Benjamin is a Jewish spy and that he mingled with Libyans following the 2011 revolution that resulted in the ouster of former dictator Moammer Ghaddafi.
    Masr Alarabia website described him as one of Mossad’s “Arabists” who are characterised by Arab features and who speak Arabic fluently in local dialects.
    Israeli Arabists are known for infiltrating Palestinian protests and arresting demonstrators, as well as assassinating anti-occupation Palestinian activists, according to Masr Alarabia.
    Benjamin had reportedly become a prominent imam of a large mosque in Benghazi, Libya’s second largest city, then he became a Daesh leader who commanded 200 fighters from the militant group. https://www.middleeastmonitor

    Read More
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  134. bjondo says:
    @wayfarer
    question: Why is Israel the world's most privileged child?
    answer: Who knows, maybe they've sold their soul in return for extraordinary privileges.

    question: How many people died in wars, during the 20th century?
    answer: A rough estimate is about 123,000,000 people.
    source: https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-in-all-the-wars-in-the-20th-century
    source: http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2006/05/dictatorships_d.html

    question: How many holocaust memorials/museums are there in the world?
    answer: Too many for the average person to spend time counting.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums

    question: How much tax-exempt cash did one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) make in 2016?
    answer: $151,826,695.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    question: How much did American taxpayers have to give one of these museums, the USHMM (https://www.ushmm.org/) in 2017?
    answer: $56,999,500.00
    source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    http://www.poppyfield.org/img/PoppyField.jpg

    21st C fiction can be very lucrative

    Read More
    • Replies: @wayfarer
    I'm going to remember this reply/comment. It somehow appeared echoing, at one of life's more challenging crossroads. I'll be filing it under, "magic of serendipity." The best of luck to you, bjondo!
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  135. Logan says:
    @ChuckOrloski
    Logan,

    A question.

    As you specialize in "fire restoration," can you offer a reason why London's burning Grenfell Tower did not collapse (in seconds) like the three (3) W.T.C. towers into "pancakes"?

    I assume you consider the tragic ( long burning ) Grenfell Tower fire as "normal" and it did not collapse into its footprint due to an absence of "thousands of gallons of jet fuel" as primary fuel accelerant.

    Thanks and I respectfully await your professional response.

    Post scriptum: My apology to commenters for taking this very important Liberty article off topic. However, and in contrast to the incredible collapse of the three (3) W.T.C. towers, one can observe pictures that show how the Grenfell Tower steel did not lose "strength and stiffness." Full disclosure, I suggest that the London tower fire offers evidence pointing to the fact that supplemental explosive materials were used to
    cause a free fall of all three (3) towers on 9/11.

    I have never made a claim of expertise in fire forensics, just in cleaning up and repairing after them.

    I have no idea why the Grenfell Tower didn’t collapse. Perhaps its supports were reinforced concrete rather than structural steel. Entirely different materials, especially when the cellulose-based fireproofing has been blown off the steel columns by an explosion. Reinforced concrete presumably maintains compressive strength better than raw steel in a fire, but, again, I’m no expert on that.

    Also, the Grenfell Tower appeared to mostly be burning on the outside of the building, which may not be the main support structures. I do know that the airspace behind the flammable panels acted as a chimney and greatly accelerated the fire. Presumably the only materials present to burn inside the apartments were “normal” household stuff, with normally creates temps of 600C to 1100C. Not nearly as hot as jet fuel, which burns at 800C to 1500C.

    I don’t claim to know what happened either place, but I do know that hot steel columns lose their strength. As can be seen in the images I linked to.

    Do you have evidence that the two structures were built using comparable materials and methods? If they weren’t, then there’s no reason to expect them to behave similarly in a fire, especially given the absence in London of a major impact and of the jet fuel.

    I’ll have to go now. Just got my monthly check from Mossad and am going out on the town!

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Logan,

    Does your monthly Mossad check arrive to you via direct deposit?

    At any rate, please look at the disturbing picture that Rurik has linked in comment # 141.

    Lucky the Odigo selective messaaging system worked so some people managed to "go out on the town."

    Selah.
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  136. bjondo says:

    anyone shifting blame/primary responsibility for the U.S.S. Liberty attack onto LBJ and/or McNamara is a dupe, shill or Jew/Israeli

    Read More
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  137. Rurik says: • Website
    @Rurik

    After at least 25 of the last 50 years, I have been labeled Anti-Semetic and Jew hater because I refuse to lie
     
    'sigh'

    I just watched this video Mr. Gallo

    http://www.renegadetribune.com/uss-liberty-survivor-ernie-gallo-shares-story-israels-attack-america/

    (remove the space between the 'us s' for the link to work. I had to separate them to post this reply)

    I learned quite a bit I hadn’t known before. For instance I wasn’t aware of pres. Johnson saying he didn’t want his ally embarrassed before he was even told who had attacked the Liberty. So he obviously knew they were going to, and then the remark about how he didn’t care if the ship went to the bottom of the ocean, or something like that.

    I have to ‘sigh’ again.

    I was also glad to see the discussion include mention of the 9/11 false flag attack and of these people’s nefarious, insidious financial power going back to the world wars.

    so many things going though my mind…

    what was it like working for the CIA all those years? As you know, the author of this article is also “X”-CIA.

    I included the “X” in quotes to be flippant, but there are many of us laypeople who have this suspicion of the CIA, just like we do the NSA.

    Mr. Unz, the proprietor of this site, has wondered aloud if there isn’t some lingering resentment from some NSA guys over the Liberty incident.

    I can’t help but wonder.. where are the CIA and NSA people who know of the serial treachery of Israel, and how they’re able to get away with murdering NSA people and yet the NSA ranks stay in line.

    so many things going through my mind.

    Was Edward Snowden simply one NSA guy who couldn’t abide the shear evil of it all?

    Knowing that the entire organization was working for Israel at the direct expense of the American people? That the American people’s tax dollars are going to support a government that is our most deadly enemy?

    If 9/11 is any indication, it certainly seems like they have zero compunction about slaughtering us in the most horrific ways, just as Johnson spoke of the sailors on the Liberty. And always, always to benefit Israel, no matter what.

    Do you have any opinion about the Golan Heights? From what I understand, that was the main prize of the Six Day War. And indeed, it has seemed to me to the main reason for our serial destabilizations and wars in the Middle East of late. I believe that our government’s efforts, (at least pre-Trump) have been to see Syria utterly destroyed (just as Iraq and Libya were utterly destroyed) so that Israel can finally lay claim to the Golan Heights with full UN recognition.

    Any thoughts?

    Anyways, I want to repeat a heart felt thank you for all you’ve done and continue to do as an honest man of honor and who has clearly sacrificed so much in the battle for truth, both on behalf of the living and the dead (murdered and betrayed).

    I hope one day that the ‘sleeping giant’ you mention in the video will awaken, and with it a new hope for justice and peace in this world.

    God bless

    ps, it has long been my contention that we need to end the Federal Reserve Bank, as it has meant private, International bankers being in control of our Treasury- and therefor everything else of consequence, before we'll ever be able to fix anything else.

    slightly off topic, but I just read that Stanley Fisher is stepping down as vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

    here’s his Wiki page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Fischer

    please just check out the short bio at the right of the page to see why and how our country and its institutions have all been corrupted into the service of Zionism.

    also note that the link that takes you to the Wiki page for the Federal Reserve System precedes the Federal with – U.S., but that’s really a lie, because the Federal Reserve Bank/System is not part of the U.S. government, but is rather a consortium of ((International Bankers)) working on behalf of their own separate agenda (total global power). As Alan Greenspan put it.. well, let’s just let him say it himself:

    over two trillion$ is missing from the Pentagon during 9/11 mastermind Dov Zakheim’s tenure as Pentagon comptroller alone, and there’s zero interest in finding out where that money went.

    Both world wars, the attack on the USS Liberty and subsequent cover-up, 9/11 and all the subsequent wars…

    are all a consequence of Zionist Jews having the key to the US treasury. With zero oversight.

    Like Chuck, I’m sorry to get off topic here, but when I read of the Vice Chairman’s resignation, this whole thing came full circle for me, and I just wanted to share that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JoaoAlfaiate
    Concerning Mr. Fischer:

    https://www.unz.com/article/israeli-american-dual-national-stanley-fischer-at-the-fed/
    , @anon
    To Rurik - the missing 2.3 trillion at the time of 9/11 has now risen to over 9 trillion.
    , @Wally
    Besides that, it's purely a coincidence the last three Fed Directors have been Jews.

    We know why the Fed and it's sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.

    It would reveal how much more US taxpayers money has been given to "that shitty little country".

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  138. Logan says:
    @Lot
    Not just "a ship" but a smallish unarmed ship in a surpise attack.

    They have another theory that they wanted to stop the ship from gathering intel. They just can't decide on one stupid conspiracy theory. Also JFK was killed by the Mob, the FBI, the CIA, the Russians, LBJ, the US military, the Jews, etc.

    From what I’ve read, the ship wasn’t entirely unarmed. They had several 50 cal machine guns and possibly other arms.

    This is, of course, very light armament for a warship. And it appears they never really tried to fight back.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    they never really tried to fight back.
     
    they didn't try to fight back because they were being buzzed all morning by Israeli jets, who they *thought* were their friends.

    and then the cowardly surprise attack took out the machine guns with their first salvo, taking out the communication antennas next. Then it was a full-on attempt to sink the ship with all hands - including the war crime atrocity of machine gunning the life boats.

    Watch the amazing video I posted above of Mr. Gallo's experience on the ship as it was all happening.

    cowardice, treason at the highest levels of our zio-federal government. A betrayal so stone-cold evil that it benumbs the soul to even contemplate it.

    In a word: Zionism. The religion of psychopaths and racial supremacist murderers

    http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/images/pagemaster/jones9_p1_2.jpg

    , @Alden
    How could they fight back with a few machine guns? As they got them ready, the planes would just fly out of range.

    Read Attack on The Liberty. So many who were on deck at the first salvo were wounded. Some of the high ranking officers were the first wounded. Probably targeted because of their insignia.

    I know, I know, for the last 7,000 years no single Jew or group of Jews has ever done anything that's not 100 percent virtuous, moral and honorable.
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  139. Art says:
    @Logan
    Did a little more research. Apparently they fired a number of torpedoes, only one of which hit the ship, but which blew a 40' hole in the side. Obviously adequate equipment to sink the ship had it not hit where it did.

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    I do know that "fog of war" has led to even more bizarre incidents of misidentification and "friendly fire."

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    Hasbara logic!

    Why would one torpedo a ship if one didn’t intend to sink it?

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Those Jews are so smart.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    To quote Big Bang Theory: Are you sure you're smart?
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  140. @Rurik
    slightly off topic, but I just read that Stanley Fisher is stepping down as vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

    here's his Wiki page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Fischer

    please just check out the short bio at the right of the page to see why and how our country and its institutions have all been corrupted into the service of Zionism.

    also note that the link that takes you to the Wiki page for the Federal Reserve System precedes the Federal with - U.S., but that's really a lie, because the Federal Reserve Bank/System is not part of the U.S. government, but is rather a consortium of ((International Bankers)) working on behalf of their own separate agenda (total global power). As Alan Greenspan put it.. well, let's just let him say it himself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-8pJuCkcjg

    over two trillion$ is missing from the Pentagon during 9/11 mastermind Dov Zakheim's tenure as Pentagon comptroller alone, and there's zero interest in finding out where that money went.

    Both world wars, the attack on the USS Liberty and subsequent cover-up, 9/11 and all the subsequent wars...

    are all a consequence of Zionist Jews having the key to the US treasury. With zero oversight.

    Like Chuck, I'm sorry to get off topic here, but when I read of the Vice Chairman's resignation, this whole thing came full circle for me, and I just wanted to share that.
    Read More
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  141. Rurik says: • Website
    @Logan
    From what I've read, the ship wasn't entirely unarmed. They had several 50 cal machine guns and possibly other arms.

    This is, of course, very light armament for a warship. And it appears they never really tried to fight back.

    they never really tried to fight back.

    they didn’t try to fight back because they were being buzzed all morning by Israeli jets, who they *thought* were their friends.

    and then the cowardly surprise attack took out the machine guns with their first salvo, taking out the communication antennas next. Then it was a full-on attempt to sink the ship with all hands – including the war crime atrocity of machine gunning the life boats.

    Watch the amazing video I posted above of Mr. Gallo’s experience on the ship as it was all happening.

    cowardice, treason at the highest levels of our zio-federal government. A betrayal so stone-cold evil that it benumbs the soul to even contemplate it.

    In a word: Zionism. The religion of psychopaths and racial supremacist murderers

    Read More
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  142. @Logan
    I have never made a claim of expertise in fire forensics, just in cleaning up and repairing after them.

    I have no idea why the Grenfell Tower didn't collapse. Perhaps its supports were reinforced concrete rather than structural steel. Entirely different materials, especially when the cellulose-based fireproofing has been blown off the steel columns by an explosion. Reinforced concrete presumably maintains compressive strength better than raw steel in a fire, but, again, I'm no expert on that.

    Also, the Grenfell Tower appeared to mostly be burning on the outside of the building, which may not be the main support structures. I do know that the airspace behind the flammable panels acted as a chimney and greatly accelerated the fire. Presumably the only materials present to burn inside the apartments were "normal" household stuff, with normally creates temps of 600C to 1100C. Not nearly as hot as jet fuel, which burns at 800C to 1500C.

    I don't claim to know what happened either place, but I do know that hot steel columns lose their strength. As can be seen in the images I linked to.

    Do you have evidence that the two structures were built using comparable materials and methods? If they weren't, then there's no reason to expect them to behave similarly in a fire, especially given the absence in London of a major impact and of the jet fuel.

    I'll have to go now. Just got my monthly check from Mossad and am going out on the town!

    Logan,

    Does your monthly Mossad check arrive to you via direct deposit?

    At any rate, please look at the disturbing picture that Rurik has linked in comment # 141.

    Lucky the Odigo selective messaaging system worked so some people managed to “go out on the town.”

    Selah.

    Read More
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  143. anarchyst says:

    Normally, the 50th anniversary of ANY event bears at least a mention in the “mainstream media”. There was NOT ONE PEEP OR BLURB about the 50th anniversary of the deliberate Israeli act of war committed against the USS Liberty (GTR-5).
    THIS is PROOF that our so-called “mainstream media” is OWNED, “lock stock and barrel” by Israeli interests.
    Message to our “lugenpresse”…SHAME ON YOU///

    Read More
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  144. Logan says:
    @Art
    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    Hasbara logic!

    Why would one torpedo a ship if one didn't intend to sink it?

    Think Peace --- Art

    p.s. Those Jews are so smart.

    To quote Big Bang Theory: Are you sure you’re smart?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Say Logan – gird your loins - this USS Liberty discussion is just a tune up exercise, for the Jew exposure on 9/11.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  145. Logan says:
    @Lot
    Not just "a ship" but a smallish unarmed ship in a surpise attack.

    They have another theory that they wanted to stop the ship from gathering intel. They just can't decide on one stupid conspiracy theory. Also JFK was killed by the Mob, the FBI, the CIA, the Russians, LBJ, the US military, the Jews, etc.

    One Conspiracy to Rule Them All, One Conspiracy to Find Them, One Conspiracy to Bring Them All, and in the Darkness Bind Them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bjondo
    Logan, the cubicle Jew:

    "I get paid 1 shekel per lie; 2 shekels for each response to a lie; 3 shekels per angry response; 4 shekels for time wasting. 6 shekels for non sequitur response that has 'em wasting time"

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  146. bjondo says:
    @Logan
    One Conspiracy to Rule Them All, One Conspiracy to Find Them, One Conspiracy to Bring Them All, and in the Darkness Bind Them.

    Logan, the cubicle Jew:

    “I get paid 1 shekel per lie; 2 shekels for each response to a lie; 3 shekels per angry response; 4 shekels for time wasting. 6 shekels for non sequitur response that has ‘em wasting time”

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    what is your pay for being a takkiyah cuck ?
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  147. Erebus says:
    @Logan
    I have worked for many years in fire restoration. One of the more interesting effects is what fire does to steel. Steel has to get really, really hot to melt, 1500C. But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    I have seen many steel I-beams that just slumped under their own weight, much like a licorice stick held by one end. That's from a "normal" fire burning building materials, not one accelerated by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&oq=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&gs_l=psy-ab.3.

    What do you think happens when steel pillars holding up multiple stories above them suddenly lose their strength and stiffness?

    http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/materialInFire/Steel/default.htm

    Interestingly, steel that is heated enough to soften it, then cooled properly becomes much stronger.

    But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    UL apparently gave the steel in the WTC a 6hr @1100C (2000F) rating. Judging by the colour of the smoke, the publicly released firefighters’ radio comms, and the people seen standing around at the impact hole, the idea that the fires reached sufficient temperature for sufficient time to cause any materially significant rise in structural steel temps seems far-fetched. Floor joists/pans? Maybe. Perimeter columns? Not even close. Central core columns? Not even close to not even close.

    BTW, the total amount of jet fuel that may have gone into the building would have covered one occupancy floor (not incl core) to about 3mm (1/8″). Kerosene (aka Jet Fuel) burns at <400C (750F) in open air. The fires were obviously oxygen starved so the burn temps were significantly lower.
    For a real life scale test, take a steel bucket and punch a few holes around the sides. Pour in kerosene to 3mm, put a sheet steel lid and and a 1" patio stone on top. For good measure, put a few pieces of 200mmx6mm (8"x1/4") re-bar or redi-rod inside. Light, and watch what happens. I can tell you what happens. Lots of smoke, a hot, blackened bucket, and not much else. The patio stone barely gets warm. The rebar is black but still quite tough. Quite boring, as these sorts of experiments go.

    Read More
    • Disagree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Logan
    As stated, don't claim to be an expert in this area.

    However, let's assume the 6hr @1100C fire rating for the steel is correct. I suspect this is not for the steel itself, but for the steel + fireproofing assembly, since this is how such numbers work. For instance, a two-hour rated firewall has very specific requirements for how it is assembled, overlapped, taped, etc. I know because I've had to deal with these, have them inspected by very anal fire inspectors, etc. Random drywall and studs do not a firewall make.

    My understanding is that the codes went from asbestos-based to cellulose-based fireproofing when the towers were in progress. Lower floors asbestos, upper floors cellulose.

    I've worked some with cellulose fireproofing. It's kind of fragile, relatively easily knocked loose. I suspect it's at least plausible that enough was knocked loose to expose some steel to high heat, whereupon it failed.

    Found an article on the subject. These engineers speculated one or more structural clips failed, starting a domino effect. Obviously, when floor 98 fails, it and all the floors above it come down onto floor 97, which simply cannot handle the weight, even if fully intact, especially when you figure in kinetic energy. Once the collapse started, it was all over.

    http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html

    But as stated I do not claim any specific expertise in this area. Just spent a good many decades in damaged buildings and on construction sites.

    One thing I can tell you. Those who claim large numbers of explosive devices were implanted fail to explain how they could install them. A site like this has many thousands of men working on it, many of them working from the plans. Believe me, they will absolutely notice and question anything that differs from the plans, most especially anything that even vaguely resembles a device of this type. Since the plans are still available, they clearly aren't in the plans. So how did the bombers get access and time to install their "(hundreds of?) devices without being questioned? Or were all those thousands of men "in on it."

    The Towers were completed in 1973. So its destruction was planned almost 30 years earlier? And all this almost 30 year old equipment functioned flawlessly?

    Or is the claim that these devices were installed more recently, which would be, if anything, even more challenging logistically. None of the people who were involved with janitorial or security have come forward to mention the large numbers of men doing mysterious stuff in the weeks or months prior to the attacks? Placing such devices would require opening walls and other quite disruptive stuff, but nobody noticed? Why might that be?

    , @Logan
    Found a very interesting article about the fireproofing in the Trade Center. Some of my earlier statements weren't entirely accurate.

    The article is by a guy who did extensive inspections in the Towers the year before they came down. He found multiple deficiencies, with photos of some in the article.

    I can attest to what he says, especially about later trades damaging fire protection features. Here you have a lovely intact 2-hour firewall, and a plumber or electrician cuts a two foot square hole so he can do his stuff. Then leaves it that way. I have seen this literally hundreds of times myself. Most of the time it makes no never mind. But maybe sometimes it does.

    BTW, it seems likely this inspector would have noticed explosive devices while doing such a comprehensive inspection.

    Excellent article, IMO.

    http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-155/issue-10/world-trade-center-disaster/volume-ii-the-ruins-and-the-rebirth/fireproofing-at-the-wtc-towers.html

    , @ChuckOrloski
    Erebus,

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit "diagree."

    So scientific & understandable, your recommended steel pail and kerosene experiment might get a Threat Code "black" (no, no) warning from our Ministry of Public Education.

    Thank you!
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  148. Alden says:
    @Rurik

    because of our Government’s deceit claiming the attack was accidental as it bolsters the Israeli supporters claim the Liberty crew is anti-Semitic and Jew haters. We have nothing but respect for folks of the Jewish faith who live by the Ten Commandments.
     
    I hesitate sir, to even respond to your comment, out of a sincere, sacrosanct even ~ respect for your service and your efforts to see your shipmates honored.

    But the tactic you mention with regard to every criticism of Israel = Jew hatred, is so all-pervasive and insidious that it's worth pointing out that not everyone who criticizes Israel or the crimes of some Jews, harbors ill will towards Jews in general. That's an egregious blood libel, and a heinous lie intended to shield the crimes and criminals who also happen to be Jews, from justice.

    Asking why Israelis were dancing and celebrating the horrific attacks on 9/11 does not implicate your Jewish wife or cousin or friend as a criminal or terrorist. Just as pointing out the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty was an act of war, (and a war crime)- does not mean you want to push Ann Frank into an oven.

    But they create those memes deliberately so that no one is ever allowed to criticize any Jews anywhere lest it mean = you are Adolf Hitler reincarnated.

    There was, if I'm not mistaken a Jewish Israeli pilot that refused to participate in the attack on the Liberty. For that man to refuse orders, (like the Israeli 'refuseniks') must have required a decency and a strength of character that is rare in militaries the world over.

    How dare they imply that you are condemning that man too, just because you're demanding our government honor your fallen shipmates.

    Those who accuse someone like you of being motivated by racism- are without honor or decency, and I just wanted to make that point.

    Kudos sir for all you have done, and God speed.

    ONE Israeli pilot first refused. Then he obeyed orders. That’s what the military does, , obey orders.

    I wonder when ADL, AJC, ACLU and SPLC will declare the American Legion a Nazi KKK hate group and get every member fired from his or her job.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    SPLC will declare the American Legion a Nazi KKK hate group
     
    it would perhaps be a karma of sorts, being as the Legion has for all these years betrayed the men murdered on the Liberty

    so much venality, so much cowardice

    it staggers
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  149. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wally
    You're in denial of your own behavior, You are best described as a hapless race pimp, low IQ specimen pretending to be smart.

    Projection, projection, projection…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    discussion here:

    ‘Jews created fake Jewish graves’
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10337

    see 'holocaust' debunking videos:

    Questioning the Holocaust: Why We Believed (Part 1 of 2)
    http://codoh.com/library/document/4056/

    The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax
    http://codoh.com/library/document/3286/

    Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid?
    http://codoh.com/library/document/1530/

    3D Imagery Demonstrates the Auschwitz Hole Hoax
    http://codoh.com/library/document/3920/

    The Majdanek Gas Chamber Myth
    http://codoh.com/library/document/3343/

    Auschwitz—The Surprising Hidden Truth
    http://codoh.com/library/document/1527
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  150. Alden says:
    @Logan
    From what I've read, the ship wasn't entirely unarmed. They had several 50 cal machine guns and possibly other arms.

    This is, of course, very light armament for a warship. And it appears they never really tried to fight back.

    How could they fight back with a few machine guns? As they got them ready, the planes would just fly out of range.

    Read Attack on The Liberty. So many who were on deck at the first salvo were wounded. Some of the high ranking officers were the first wounded. Probably targeted because of their insignia.

    I know, I know, for the last 7,000 years no single Jew or group of Jews has ever done anything that’s not 100 percent virtuous, moral and honorable.

    Read More
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  151. Art says:
    @Logan
    To quote Big Bang Theory: Are you sure you're smart?

    Say Logan – gird your loins – this USS Liberty discussion is just a tune up exercise, for the Jew exposure on 9/11.

    Think Peace — Art

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  152. @Joe Franklin
    Here's the sleaze ball who ordered the USS Liberty anti-rescue effort and the cover up:

    http://5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    Our First Jewish President Lyndon Johnson

    Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffman's, apparently migrated to Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.

    According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish.

    These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines. Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin. John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

    Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman, who married Joseph Baines and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines, Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.

     

    Joe Franklin, that was an excellent report you made on LBJ and his ancestors. You’re 100% correct in stating since his parents, grandparents, etc. on the Jewish maternal line were all Jews, that instantly made LBJ Jewish, according to Jewish Law.
    Just tracing the line of Jewish mothers in the 36th President’s family tree was enough to prove that he, too, was Jewish.
    Thank you, Joe, for doing the research on LBJ’s family tree and posting it on this website.

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  153. wayfarer says:
    @bjondo
    21st C fiction can be very lucrative

    I’m going to remember this reply/comment. It somehow appeared echoing, at one of life’s more challenging crossroads. I’ll be filing it under, “magic of serendipity.” The best of luck to you, bjondo!

    Read More
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  154. Sparkon says:

    Philip Giraldi’s fine article is about the treacherous and murderous Israeli attack on the U.S.S Liberty, and not about 9/11, which Phil didn’t mention here.

    Nevertheless, Mr. Giraldi’s article has attracted the attention of some 9/11 anti-truthers and falsifiers, who are working hard to distract attention away from the Liberty Incident by trotting out some of the same ol’ same ol’ about sagging columns at the WTC.

    (One might well think these two operations are joined at the hip — or is it the anus? — Same a-holes, different doo doo.)

    However, there is no evidence that any of the fires in any of the WTC structures attained the sustained high temperatures necessary to weaken steel:

    The problems with NIST’s explanation continue in step four, where high temperatures were said to have softened the columns and floors. NIST did tests for this as well, but then abandoned the results. The first test, which examined paint deformation on steel samples chosen specifically from the fire zones, showed that less than 2% of the samples had seen temperatures above 250 °C. Another test gave the one-sided result that no samples saw temperatures above 600 °C. The obvious problem was that steel does not soften or lose significant strength at the low temperatures indicated, yet NIST’s story depends on the softening or weakening of vast quantities of structural steel.

    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/09/07/why-the-nist-report-on-the-world-trade-center-towers-is-false/

    From a survivor of the Liberty Incident, Phil Tourney:

    Anyone who doubts the sinister nature of this attack by a purported ally need only remember that, prior to the Six-Day Land Grab (a provocation that set in motion all that has followed since in the region), Lyndon Johnson was “befriended” by Arthur and Mathilde Krim. Arthur, president of United Artists, was chair of the campaign finance committee for the Democrats, a party then headed by LBJ. Krim acquired property near the LBJ Ranch in Texas where he built “Mathilde’s House” where she commenced a long-running affair with our Commander-in-Chief.

    On the night that the 1967 “war” commenced…Mathilde was having a “sleepover” in the White House. Mathilde was previously married to an Irgun terrorist and became an Irgun operative. The Irgun, led by Menachem Begin, arranged for the bombing of the King David Hotel, leaving 91 dead. Mathilde, a convert to Judaism, struck up an exquisitely well-timed affair with a U.S. president in the lead-up to this provocation. Irgun became the Likud Party of Sharon and Netanyahu.

    https://truthscooper.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/was-lbj-shacked-up-with-a-pretty-zionist-when-israel-attacked-the-uss-liberty/

    Ms. Galland (Krim) reportedly was so disturbed by Tales of the Holocaust, that she became a Jewess converted to Judaism:

    Scientist and AIDS activist Mathilde Krim was born in Como, Italy on this date in 1926. She converted to Judaism in the late 1940s, motivated by her passion about the Holocaust and her encounters at the University of Geneva with Palestinian Jewish gun-runners,

    http://jewishcurrents.org/july-9-mathilde-krim/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    "Irgun operative"? Evidence that she did more than facilitate Irgun arms purchases in some way before she had been to Palestine or converted to Judaism?
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  155. Logan says:
    @Erebus

    But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.
     
    UL apparently gave the steel in the WTC a 6hr @1100C (2000F) rating. Judging by the colour of the smoke, the publicly released firefighters' radio comms, and the people seen standing around at the impact hole, the idea that the fires reached sufficient temperature for sufficient time to cause any materially significant rise in structural steel temps seems far-fetched. Floor joists/pans? Maybe. Perimeter columns? Not even close. Central core columns? Not even close to not even close.

    BTW, the total amount of jet fuel that may have gone into the building would have covered one occupancy floor (not incl core) to about 3mm (1/8"). Kerosene (aka Jet Fuel) burns at <400C (750F) in open air. The fires were obviously oxygen starved so the burn temps were significantly lower.
    For a real life scale test, take a steel bucket and punch a few holes around the sides. Pour in kerosene to 3mm, put a sheet steel lid and and a 1" patio stone on top. For good measure, put a few pieces of 200mmx6mm (8"x1/4") re-bar or redi-rod inside. Light, and watch what happens. I can tell you what happens. Lots of smoke, a hot, blackened bucket, and not much else. The patio stone barely gets warm. The rebar is black but still quite tough. Quite boring, as these sorts of experiments go.

    As stated, don’t claim to be an expert in this area.

    However, let’s assume the 6hr @1100C fire rating for the steel is correct. I suspect this is not for the steel itself, but for the steel + fireproofing assembly, since this is how such numbers work. For instance, a two-hour rated firewall has very specific requirements for how it is assembled, overlapped, taped, etc. I know because I’ve had to deal with these, have them inspected by very anal fire inspectors, etc. Random drywall and studs do not a firewall make.

    My understanding is that the codes went from asbestos-based to cellulose-based fireproofing when the towers were in progress. Lower floors asbestos, upper floors cellulose.

    I’ve worked some with cellulose fireproofing. It’s kind of fragile, relatively easily knocked loose. I suspect it’s at least plausible that enough was knocked loose to expose some steel to high heat, whereupon it failed.

    Found an article on the subject. These engineers speculated one or more structural clips failed, starting a domino effect. Obviously, when floor 98 fails, it and all the floors above it come down onto floor 97, which simply cannot handle the weight, even if fully intact, especially when you figure in kinetic energy. Once the collapse started, it was all over.

    http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html

    But as stated I do not claim any specific expertise in this area. Just spent a good many decades in damaged buildings and on construction sites.

    One thing I can tell you. Those who claim large numbers of explosive devices were implanted fail to explain how they could install them. A site like this has many thousands of men working on it, many of them working from the plans. Believe me, they will absolutely notice and question anything that differs from the plans, most especially anything that even vaguely resembles a device of this type. Since the plans are still available, they clearly aren’t in the plans. So how did the bombers get access and time to install their “(hundreds of?) devices without being questioned? Or were all those thousands of men “in on it.”

    The Towers were completed in 1973. So its destruction was planned almost 30 years earlier? And all this almost 30 year old equipment functioned flawlessly?

    Or is the claim that these devices were installed more recently, which would be, if anything, even more challenging logistically. None of the people who were involved with janitorial or security have come forward to mention the large numbers of men doing mysterious stuff in the weeks or months prior to the attacks? Placing such devices would require opening walls and other quite disruptive stuff, but nobody noticed? Why might that be?

    Read More
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  156. Wally says:
    @A guy
    AI think if you only post that Codoh link one more time the elders of Zion will fess up and admit that the Holocaust never happened and pol pot was a Zionist Jew !!!!!

    Why do you post James Woods quotes , the guy is a huge Zionist lololol
    Muh Codoh muh holohoax . Even your heroes are Zionist lololol

    No hero, just useful on certain points when needed.

    As for CODOH, thanks for mentioning it, I invite readers here to visit:

    [MORE]

    http://www.codoh.com
    and

    https://forum.codoh.com

    The world is changing and panic stricken Zionists like ‘A guy’ don’t like it one bit.

    We enjoy seeing the liars squirm.

    Read More
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  157. Logan says:
    @Erebus

    But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.
     
    UL apparently gave the steel in the WTC a 6hr @1100C (2000F) rating. Judging by the colour of the smoke, the publicly released firefighters' radio comms, and the people seen standing around at the impact hole, the idea that the fires reached sufficient temperature for sufficient time to cause any materially significant rise in structural steel temps seems far-fetched. Floor joists/pans? Maybe. Perimeter columns? Not even close. Central core columns? Not even close to not even close.

    BTW, the total amount of jet fuel that may have gone into the building would have covered one occupancy floor (not incl core) to about 3mm (1/8"). Kerosene (aka Jet Fuel) burns at <400C (750F) in open air. The fires were obviously oxygen starved so the burn temps were significantly lower.
    For a real life scale test, take a steel bucket and punch a few holes around the sides. Pour in kerosene to 3mm, put a sheet steel lid and and a 1" patio stone on top. For good measure, put a few pieces of 200mmx6mm (8"x1/4") re-bar or redi-rod inside. Light, and watch what happens. I can tell you what happens. Lots of smoke, a hot, blackened bucket, and not much else. The patio stone barely gets warm. The rebar is black but still quite tough. Quite boring, as these sorts of experiments go.

    Found a very interesting article about the fireproofing in the Trade Center. Some of my earlier statements weren’t entirely accurate.

    The article is by a guy who did extensive inspections in the Towers the year before they came down. He found multiple deficiencies, with photos of some in the article.

    I can attest to what he says, especially about later trades damaging fire protection features. Here you have a lovely intact 2-hour firewall, and a plumber or electrician cuts a two foot square hole so he can do his stuff. Then leaves it that way. I have seen this literally hundreds of times myself. Most of the time it makes no never mind. But maybe sometimes it does.

    BTW, it seems likely this inspector would have noticed explosive devices while doing such a comprehensive inspection.

    Excellent article, IMO.

    http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-155/issue-10/world-trade-center-disaster/volume-ii-the-ruins-and-the-rebirth/fireproofing-at-the-wtc-towers.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erebus
    First, yes I also assumed the UL 6hr rating would be for the steel/fireproofing combination. The steels that can handle 1100C for 6hrs unprotected are normally called "Tungsten" or "Titanium". :-)
    I also agree that too many trades people treat fire protection as nothing more than an impediment to their work.

    As for the rest in your #155 & #157, let's agree to resist turning this excellent article on the Liberty into yet another tortured wrangle about 9/11.

    Cheers.
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  158. Wally says: • Website
    @Anon
    Projection, projection, projection...

    discussion here:

    [MORE]

    ‘Jews created fake Jewish graves’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10337

    see ‘holocaust’ debunking videos:

    Questioning the Holocaust: Why We Believed (Part 1 of 2)

    http://codoh.com/library/document/4056/

    The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax

    http://codoh.com/library/document/3286/

    Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid?

    http://codoh.com/library/document/1530/

    3D Imagery Demonstrates the Auschwitz Hole Hoax

    http://codoh.com/library/document/3920/

    The Majdanek Gas Chamber Myth

    http://codoh.com/library/document/3343/

    Auschwitz—The Surprising Hidden Truth

    http://codoh.com/library/document/1527

    Read More
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  159. Logan says:
    @Hibernian
    Somewhere along the line a representative of this matrilineal line converyted to Christianity. LBJ was no more Jewish than Goldwater.

    Ahh, but Jewishness is a taint of the blood. Can’t be gotten rid of by simple conversion.

    Would like to point out that the discussion you’re responding to does not provide any evidence of Jewish ancestry, simply that the names in question were common Jewish names, which I have no way of knowing whether this is accurate or not.

    Many surnames are held by both Jews and Gentiles. Zimmerman, for instance.

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  160. @Erebus

    But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.
     
    UL apparently gave the steel in the WTC a 6hr @1100C (2000F) rating. Judging by the colour of the smoke, the publicly released firefighters' radio comms, and the people seen standing around at the impact hole, the idea that the fires reached sufficient temperature for sufficient time to cause any materially significant rise in structural steel temps seems far-fetched. Floor joists/pans? Maybe. Perimeter columns? Not even close. Central core columns? Not even close to not even close.

    BTW, the total amount of jet fuel that may have gone into the building would have covered one occupancy floor (not incl core) to about 3mm (1/8"). Kerosene (aka Jet Fuel) burns at <400C (750F) in open air. The fires were obviously oxygen starved so the burn temps were significantly lower.
    For a real life scale test, take a steel bucket and punch a few holes around the sides. Pour in kerosene to 3mm, put a sheet steel lid and and a 1" patio stone on top. For good measure, put a few pieces of 200mmx6mm (8"x1/4") re-bar or redi-rod inside. Light, and watch what happens. I can tell you what happens. Lots of smoke, a hot, blackened bucket, and not much else. The patio stone barely gets warm. The rebar is black but still quite tough. Quite boring, as these sorts of experiments go.

    Erebus,

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit “diagree.”

    So scientific & understandable, your recommended steel pail and kerosene experiment might get a Threat Code “black” (no, no) warning from our Ministry of Public Education.

    Thank you!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erebus

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit “diagree.”
     
    Hey, no problem Chuck, but "scientific" wouldn't be how I describe it. At best it can provide a starting point to a physical reality based discussion, something sorely needed in some circles.

    Code Black huh? Damn, not again!
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  161. annamaria says:
    @exiled off mainstreet
    The stench of treason emanates from those who have backed Israel in this matter these last 50 years.

    The story of the illegal Iraq War is tightly related to the story of the USSLiberty. In both cases, the US servicemen were taken advantage by the US government and they were killed on the Israel-firsters’ design: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/05/12/selective-intelligence

    http://theamericanfreedomparty.us/ziocons/

    “The awful situation that we are now confronted by in Iraq and Syria is the direct outcome of zionist actions within the American government supported by the 44 elected legislative zionists. There can be no reasonable disagreement with the fact that the Mossad provided all the miss-information about “Weapons of Mass Destruction” in Iraq, in order to solidify their “Eretz Israel” hegemonic expansion of the Middle East. Furthermore, the Iran diatribe on nuclear weapons is also a Ziocon presentation, as was the totally uncalled for constitutionally illegal war against Libya. Jews have dominated American Foreign policy for many decades and beginning in the late 20th century have also dominated domestic policy. Noteworthy is the undeniable fact that in every one of these nations Libya, Syria, and Iraq things are now far worse for the citizens as well as us, and then they were under previous governance.”

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0900paxamericana

    “February 19, 1998: Neoconservative Group Calls on US to Help Overthrow Hussein”
    The co-signers include Elliott Abrams, Richard Armitage, John Bolton, Stephen Bryen, Douglas Feith, Frank Gaffney, Fred Ikle, Robert Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad, William Kristol, Michael Ledeen, Bernard Lewis, Peter Rodman, Donald Rumsfeld, Gary Schmitt, Max Singer, Casper Weinberger, Paul Wolfowitz, David Wurmser, and Dov Zakheim. [CNN, 2/20/1998; MIDDLE EAST POLICY COUNCIL, 6/2004]
    The CPSG is closely affiliated with both the neoconservative Project for the New American Century (PNAC—see June 3, 1997 and January 26, 1998) and the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI), both of which boast Perle as a powerful and influential member.”
    The road to hell (at least $6 trillion dollars and at least 4 million dead people, including a large number of children) was plotted by the American Israel-firsters: “The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” [WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/7/2002; CHICAGO SUN-TIMES, 3/6/2003] The paper, whose lead author is neoconservative Richard Perle, is meant to advise the new, right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Other authors include Richard Perle; Meyrav and David Wurmser, the future chief adviser for Dick Cheney; Douglas Feith, the prime architect of the Iraq war, et al. The paper advocates making a complete break with past policies by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism.…” [GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002]
    Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon (see February 1982), the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” the paper says.”
    The beginning of this century witnessed a march of Jewish cannibals bent on destroying several functioning states (and slaughtering millions of people) to satisfy a dream of the mythological Eretz Israel.

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  162. peterAUS says:

    A thought.

    Funny thought actually.

    In fact, hilarious (shame on me).

    In “alt-right” universe The Evil is the “Deep State”.
    One of pillars of that “Deep State” is “intelligence community”. Another is MIC.US Navy is part of it.
    Ah, yes, of course, Jews and Israel. They are The Big Evil.

    And we see here weeping over an incident where Israel messed up an “intelligence community”/MIC asset.
    Bad, bad The Big Evil.
    Good…good The Evil. In this case. Not other cases.
    Interesting.

    The irony.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous

    The irony.
     
    nah

    not irony.

    a point of origin

    a beginning point

    rather, the second or maybe third or fourth point from the beginning of Israeli subversion of US politics/government into Israel's bitch

    Eisenhower forced Israel to back down from its scheme to invade Egypt
    Israel marking time
    simmering


    betimes, Israelis steals uranium from USA
    Israel builds nuclear bombs
    then Israelis cheated when JFK demanded to inspect Israeli nuke facilities
    then JFK demanded that Israel register its foreign agents
    all of these unconscionable demands on poor wittle persecuted Israel were too much for the fledgling state
    JFK got offed
    Matilda "Esther" Krim and hubby Mordechai attach short reins to a willing LBJ
    THEN the deep state begins digging in - -- -
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  163. anon says: • Disclaimer

    There is a lot to hate.
    Israel is a genocidal rogue terrorist state with weapons of mass destruction. The attack on the Liberty is only one of its countless crimes over decades.
    This is just as relevant today as it was 50 years ago.
    It demonstrates the criminal character of the Zionist regime.
    Murdering US servicemen with impunity has just encouraged and facilitated similar crimes against Americans. Liberty – 34 dead. 9/11 – 3,000 murdered by the same criminal regime.
    They will do the same again, on an even greater scale, if it serves their purpose.
    It also demonstrates the contemptible, treasonous nature of US politicians and governments that would collude in the murder of US servicemen to serve Zionist interests. They are truly beneath contempt, less than filth, 30 shekel goy whores one and all.

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  164. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rurik
    slightly off topic, but I just read that Stanley Fisher is stepping down as vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

    here's his Wiki page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Fischer

    please just check out the short bio at the right of the page to see why and how our country and its institutions have all been corrupted into the service of Zionism.

    also note that the link that takes you to the Wiki page for the Federal Reserve System precedes the Federal with - U.S., but that's really a lie, because the Federal Reserve Bank/System is not part of the U.S. government, but is rather a consortium of ((International Bankers)) working on behalf of their own separate agenda (total global power). As Alan Greenspan put it.. well, let's just let him say it himself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-8pJuCkcjg

    over two trillion$ is missing from the Pentagon during 9/11 mastermind Dov Zakheim's tenure as Pentagon comptroller alone, and there's zero interest in finding out where that money went.

    Both world wars, the attack on the USS Liberty and subsequent cover-up, 9/11 and all the subsequent wars...

    are all a consequence of Zionist Jews having the key to the US treasury. With zero oversight.

    Like Chuck, I'm sorry to get off topic here, but when I read of the Vice Chairman's resignation, this whole thing came full circle for me, and I just wanted to share that.

    To Rurik – the missing 2.3 trillion at the time of 9/11 has now risen to over 9 trillion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    the missing 2.3 trillion at the time of 9/11 has now risen to over 9 trillion.
     
    I was just reading this blog post

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/please-just-fucking-die-already-acb3a879656e

    I would say sorry for it being off topic, but it isn't really

    I found it because I typed 'John McCain please die' into a search engine, (just wanted to put that out into the universe) and then I clicked on the link
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  165. Lot says:
    @Hibernian
    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.

    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.

    True, but the antisemite conspiracy mongers don’t accuse Israel of stupidity, but of being diabolical geniuses.

    Also, Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    diabolical geniuses.
     
    naw

    two bit swindlers, they just got lucky with Woodrow Wilson being a post turtle

    Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.
     
    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-israel-corruption-olmert-20140331-story.html

    http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/files/2015/01/4894458091.jpg

    aren't these things being indicted for corruption as we speak?
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  166. @Logan
    Did a little more research. Apparently they fired a number of torpedoes, only one of which hit the ship, but which blew a 40' hole in the side. Obviously adequate equipment to sink the ship had it not hit where it did.

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    I do know that "fog of war" has led to even more bizarre incidents of misidentification and "friendly fire."

    Yes there are a lot of possible complexities (including the trivial but ultimately critical) that some want to sweep out of consideration. I wonder how often it has been assumed that you simply can’t rely on what you think are the flags or markings of an ally not to be the false flags so beloved of many UR commenters (and sometimes the reality, as are trolls). On the same line of thought, how well trained would Israeli pilots have been on ship markings?

    Read More
    • Agree: Logan
    • Troll: Rurik
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  167. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Your hasbara cheque is in the post.

    Read More
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  168. Wally says:
    @Rurik
    slightly off topic, but I just read that Stanley Fisher is stepping down as vice chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

    here's his Wiki page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Fischer

    please just check out the short bio at the right of the page to see why and how our country and its institutions have all been corrupted into the service of Zionism.

    also note that the link that takes you to the Wiki page for the Federal Reserve System precedes the Federal with - U.S., but that's really a lie, because the Federal Reserve Bank/System is not part of the U.S. government, but is rather a consortium of ((International Bankers)) working on behalf of their own separate agenda (total global power). As Alan Greenspan put it.. well, let's just let him say it himself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-8pJuCkcjg

    over two trillion$ is missing from the Pentagon during 9/11 mastermind Dov Zakheim's tenure as Pentagon comptroller alone, and there's zero interest in finding out where that money went.

    Both world wars, the attack on the USS Liberty and subsequent cover-up, 9/11 and all the subsequent wars...

    are all a consequence of Zionist Jews having the key to the US treasury. With zero oversight.

    Like Chuck, I'm sorry to get off topic here, but when I read of the Vice Chairman's resignation, this whole thing came full circle for me, and I just wanted to share that.

    Besides that, it’s purely a coincidence the last three Fed Directors have been Jews.

    We know why the Fed and it’s sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.

    It would reveal how much more US taxpayers money has been given to “that shitty little country”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    the Fed and it’s sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.
     
    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations
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  169. @John Hawk
    Phil, another brilliant recapitulation of the USS Liberty history. On June 9, 1967, a small group of post-BA students of Middle East history and languages, sat with our professor (a young PhD from a top-notch Middle East university) in the cafeteria of the prestigious East Coast university where we were in residence, and were told in detail and matter-of-factly about the USS Liberty attack and then betrayal of its crew. From my memory bank, our professor said that he had received a call from a colleague of his, (an individual who represented the major Middle East ally of the US government) who then told him in detail about an attack on an American ship by the only country in the Middle East who could have done so. I have carried this information for 50 years, and when I can, I have always called out the bravery of the USS Liberty crew, and the treasonous treachery of the cover-up artists in the White House and the U S Navy. The American Legion resolution, commendable as it is, is too little, too late.

    Where I used to work decades ago, there was a guy who said they had monitored the attack from the U.S. military communications base in Asmara, Ethiopia.

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  170. Thank you for sharing the story known well to all USNAVSECGRU. I am a former CTI-2 who did intercept and TA in Russian, but was also qualified in German and Hebrew. The latter gave me an early awareness of this event although it occurred 4 years before my 1st enlistment. I am still very skeptical of official Israeli rationalizations for this unprovoked attack.

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  171. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Past (Israeli attack on USS Liberty) is Prologue:

    Although you probably didn’t hear about it in US Lügenpresse, if you read solid internet sites like SicSemperTyrannis or Moon of Alabama, you will be aware that the Syrian Arab Army, in coordination with Russian, Hezbollah, and Iranian fighters and advisors, have broken the ISIS siege of Deir Ezzor. The morale boost to the SAA from this long and bloody campaign has Uncle Sam and his kosher godfather crapping in their gutchies.

    Uncle Sam, in his everlasting search for peace and tranquility, is doing his best to throw a monkey wrench into a Hezbollah-negotiated deal by which ISIS fighters and some civilians could depart in busses: USA is holding up the busses in the desert, where passengers are deprived of food and water. The plan appears to be to starve them to death.

    On a more immediate front, US has hired Kurdish fighters to ensure that SAA does not push through to regain control of Syria’s rich oil fields.

    As for Unc Sam’s kosher godfather, the Iranian bogey man has turned his normally soft and mellow eyes into swirling pinwheels of red, green and purple:

    “Iran intends to set up bases in Syria!!”

    “Iran is gonna move its nuclear facilities to Syria!

    “Iran is gonna hide under your bed and grab your nuts while you — um, do whatever it is you do when the night is long and you’re scared out of your gutchies.”

    So kosher godfather has sent his marching orders — to the U S Congress (those of that body who are not still in Israel):

    ISRAEL NEEDS TO PREPARE AMERICA FOR THE UPCOMING CONFLICT IN SYRIA

    An Israeli tipping point may have been reached, forcing Israel to either be resigned to a permanent Iranian presence in Syria or significantly increase its operations in Syria, potentially escalating into a wider regional war.

    The article explains that Netanyahu did a man dance in front of Putin, demanding to know exactly what Russia intended to do about pesky Iran. Putin dismissed him with a flick of the finger: “Iran is Russia’s strategic ally in the Middle East”
    .
    So now, USA has to be worried because Israel is gonna have to attack Russia, and how is Russia gonna react when Russian troops are killed? It’s gonna cause a regional war!

    . .The region could be ignited with a single match. That light could be a significant Israeli attack in Syria in response to the increased military transfers facilitated by a permanent Iranian presence, starting the engine toward a wider regional conflagration.

    And yet,

    As former head of the National Security Council Yaakov Amidror said, “At the end of the day it is our responsibility, not the responsibility of the Americans, or the Russians, to guarantee ourselves, and we will take all the measures that are needed for that.”

    So does that mean that it’s going to become a problem for USA when Israel attacks Russian who are operating in alliance with Iran in Syria, or not?

    I’m so confused.

    There is no doubt the Iranians will be testing Israel very soon, feeling secure that no one including the US will come to their aid. American resolve to stand by an essential ally will be severely tested, as many US allies will not choose Israel’s side if Israel acts.

    The West mistakenly believes the imminent defeat of Islamic State (ISIS) will stabilize Syria and the surrounding region, but nothing could be further from the truth. ISIS with its offshoots will turn back to insurgency, while the Islamist Iranian victors solidify their land corridor to the Mediterranean

    What we have is:
    Defeating ISIS was/is a bad thing
    Russia is on Iran’s side and will not come to Israel’s aid against Iran
    Neither will most of the rest of the world
    Neither will USA
    but
    There is no need for US to come to the aid of Israel because it is Israel’s responsibility to defend itself
    Israel will have to kill Russians
    Which will implicate USA in a regional conflict
    Which Israel will set off by attacking Russia

    THEREFORE: Israelis are going to be hard at work twisting arms of US Congressmen to turn against their president and against the best interests of the US citizens and come to the aid of Israel when it sets off a regional war against the Iranian boogie man under its bed:

    . . .
    This is why Israel must prepare its American ally sooner rather than later to know that Israel may not be able to sit idly by while Iran’s uses its new base to transfer more and more powerful weaponry to Hezbollah.

    Yo

    Kim

    Can your nukes reach Tel Aviv?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .
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  172. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @peterAUS
    A thought.

    Funny thought actually.

    In fact, hilarious (shame on me).

    In "alt-right" universe The Evil is the "Deep State".
    One of pillars of that "Deep State" is "intelligence community". Another is MIC.US Navy is part of it.
    Ah, yes, of course, Jews and Israel. They are The Big Evil.

    And we see here weeping over an incident where Israel messed up an "intelligence community"/MIC asset.
    Bad, bad The Big Evil.
    Good...good The Evil. In this case. Not other cases.
    Interesting.

    The irony.

    The irony.

    nah

    not irony.

    a point of origin

    a beginning point

    rather, the second or maybe third or fourth point from the beginning of Israeli subversion of US politics/government into Israel’s bitch

    Eisenhower forced Israel to back down from its scheme to invade Egypt
    Israel marking time
    simmering

    betimes, Israelis steals uranium from USA
    Israel builds nuclear bombs
    then Israelis cheated when JFK demanded to inspect Israeli nuke facilities
    then JFK demanded that Israel register its foreign agents
    all of these unconscionable demands on poor wittle persecuted Israel were too much for the fledgling state
    JFK got offed
    Matilda “Esther” Krim and hubby Mordechai attach short reins to a willing LBJ
    THEN the deep state begins digging in – — -

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Ah...now I see.
    Thank you.

    Up to 1967 there was no Bad Deep State.
    It was, as in this case, young dedicated brave patriots etc....etc.....

    Then this incident happened.
    Sorry, not an incident.
    The cold blooded murder of young dedicated etc.....

    And after that we got Bad Deep State.

    Got it.

    Israel, by this cold blooded etc.....actually created Bad Deep State.

    Bloody Israelis.

    Man...these Jews ...how do they do that?
    They, by alt-right consensus, aren't that smart.
    And, by alt-right consensus too, West is very smart.

    So, not so smart minority subverted much smarter majority.

    F*&k, that's confusing.
    Usually smart subvert/trick not so smart.

    Maybe because they are bad.
    So, bad minority subverted much smarter majority.
    Which couldn't recognize that subverting.
    But, then, that's not very smart I'd say. Not recognizing I mean.

    Still confusing.

    Probably because I am dumb.
    Yes, that must be it.

    But, then, I've been commanding, training, leading....managing, tutoring....lots of people.
    They must've been even dumber than me.
    But there have been lots of them.

    Confusing.
    , @prusmc
    Does Robert Caro's detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Ktimm?
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Sloppy slanders aren't very effective. Mathilde (not Matilda) Krim's husband was the important Democrat Arthur Krim. Where does your "Mordechai" come from.
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  173. Rurik says: • Website
    @Alden
    ONE Israeli pilot first refused. Then he obeyed orders. That's what the military does, , obey orders.

    I wonder when ADL, AJC, ACLU and SPLC will declare the American Legion a Nazi KKK hate group and get every member fired from his or her job.

    SPLC will declare the American Legion a Nazi KKK hate group

    it would perhaps be a karma of sorts, being as the Legion has for all these years betrayed the men murdered on the Liberty

    so much venality, so much cowardice

    it staggers

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  174. Rurik says: • Website
    @anon
    To Rurik - the missing 2.3 trillion at the time of 9/11 has now risen to over 9 trillion.

    the missing 2.3 trillion at the time of 9/11 has now risen to over 9 trillion.

    I was just reading this blog post

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/please-just-fucking-die-already-acb3a879656e

    I would say sorry for it being off topic, but it isn’t really

    I found it because I typed ‘John McCain please die’ into a search engine, (just wanted to put that out into the universe) and then I clicked on the link

    Read More
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  175. Rurik says: • Website
    @Lot

    The history of the world is full of nations and their leaders indulging in actions that make no sense.
     
    True, but the antisemite conspiracy mongers don't accuse Israel of stupidity, but of being diabolical geniuses.

    Also, Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.

    diabolical geniuses.

    naw

    two bit swindlers, they just got lucky with Woodrow Wilson being a post turtle

    Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.

    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-israel-corruption-olmert-20140331-story.html

    aren’t these things being indicted for corruption as we speak?

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Israel is forcing the US to spend more money and American blood for the future Eretz Israel:
    https://www.rt.com/news/402270-syrian-military-israel-strike/
    http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/un-report-us-led-coalition-airstrikes.html
    "Israeli plane strikes Syrian positions in Hama province, kills two servicemen"
    Nothing changed since the 90-s when ziocons have begun cheerleading for remaking the Middle East to ensure the security of Israel. The moral midget-state wants more blood and more mounds of flesh as if the 4 million slaughtered civilians (including hundreds of thousands of children) are not enough for the ziocons project: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=jewish_institute_for_national_security_affairs_1
    "February 9, 2003: Washington Post: Bush Administration in Near-Perfect Accord with Likud-Run Israeli Government: ” But the US is not just in accord with Israel; it is in accord with Likud, the hardline conservative political party currently in charge of the Israeli government.
    'Likudniks Really in Charge Now' -The Post explains that in Abrams’s and Wurmser’s view, promoting democracy in the Middle East [slaughtering civilians and destroying the neighboring states] is the best way to assure Israel’s security. Like other neoconservatives, they see the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of a “democratic Palestine” as necessary for peace in the region. The Post writes, “Members of the group do not hide their friendships and connections, or their loyalty to strong positions in support of Israel and Likud.” [WASHINGTON POST, 2/9/2003]
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  176. Rurik says: • Website
    @Wally
    Besides that, it's purely a coincidence the last three Fed Directors have been Jews.

    We know why the Fed and it's sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.

    It would reveal how much more US taxpayers money has been given to "that shitty little country".

    the Fed and it’s sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.

    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger

    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations
     
    Perhaps in the past it might have, but by now they have cooked the books to such an extent that we would elicit nothing. Ron Paul tried and failed to audit them. Rand Paul is trying and failing. Despite that, they continue to resist. Only torches and pitchforks will bring them down.
    , @Paul C.
    It's much worse than I thought. Not only do the psychopathic Talmudic bankers control the Fed and all Central banks throughout the world, but via Kabbalah inspired Freemasonry, they control everything in nearly all societies. In the US, we're essentially all slaves as a result of the 14th amendment, which makes everyone a "US Citizen". The "United States" is a federal corporation. All federal agencies, all courthouses, all foreign governments are all corporations. We're citizens of a corporation, essentially chattel, without any real rights, just privileges. We own nothing. Even if you pay off your house, it can be taken from you if you don't pay the property tax. Everything is based on Admiralty law (Maritime law, law of the sea).

    Research "Strawman". There is a way out and that's to renounce US Citizenship and go back to being an American National, with Common Law rights. This puts us in the "creditor" role, so the banks can't seize our property, such as in a foreclosure. And incrementally "the people" can take back their government and begin to dismantle the current banking system.

    It's a rabbit hole, but Ken Scott Cousens is a good place to start.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvPn-KhBl3M&index=1&list=PLyMcAMIyCGbndurbZP4wE1FJqzdTKMLJz
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  177. peterAUS says:
    @anonymous

    The irony.
     
    nah

    not irony.

    a point of origin

    a beginning point

    rather, the second or maybe third or fourth point from the beginning of Israeli subversion of US politics/government into Israel's bitch

    Eisenhower forced Israel to back down from its scheme to invade Egypt
    Israel marking time
    simmering


    betimes, Israelis steals uranium from USA
    Israel builds nuclear bombs
    then Israelis cheated when JFK demanded to inspect Israeli nuke facilities
    then JFK demanded that Israel register its foreign agents
    all of these unconscionable demands on poor wittle persecuted Israel were too much for the fledgling state
    JFK got offed
    Matilda "Esther" Krim and hubby Mordechai attach short reins to a willing LBJ
    THEN the deep state begins digging in - -- -

    Ah…now I see.
    Thank you.

    Up to 1967 there was no Bad Deep State.
    It was, as in this case, young dedicated brave patriots etc….etc…..

    Then this incident happened.
    Sorry, not an incident.
    The cold blooded murder of young dedicated etc…..

    And after that we got Bad Deep State.

    Got it.

    Israel, by this cold blooded etc…..actually created Bad Deep State.

    Bloody Israelis.

    Man…these Jews …how do they do that?
    They, by alt-right consensus, aren’t that smart.
    And, by alt-right consensus too, West is very smart.

    So, not so smart minority subverted much smarter majority.

    F*&k, that’s confusing.
    Usually smart subvert/trick not so smart.

    Maybe because they are bad.
    So, bad minority subverted much smarter majority.
    Which couldn’t recognize that subverting.
    But, then, that’s not very smart I’d say. Not recognizing I mean.

    Still confusing.

    Probably because I am dumb.
    Yes, that must be it.

    But, then, I’ve been commanding, training, leading….managing, tutoring….lots of people.
    They must’ve been even dumber than me.
    But there have been lots of them.

    Confusing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Confusing.

    Confusion is your goal - you love confusion, you gain by confusion, you intend confusion - you thrive on confusion.

    "By deception we make war" - that is the Jew mantra.

    Big lies, half truths, and false claims are your memes against the good people of this earth.

    The Jews can never know peace, because they are always working against what it takes to build peace.

    Peace can only occur around truth.

    Think Peace --- Art
    , @anonymous
    PeterAUS --

    Congrats on your training & leading gigs; I don't do chest-thumping -- hurts like hell pounding on the pacemaker.

    You're correct, of course, Deep State was not a 'switch off - switch on' function.

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted -- quite deliberately -- to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the 'Left Behinds').
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.

    Consider a few key events/dates in Israel's pre-Liberty history (fast-forwarding from Jewish expulsion of British, and more-or-less systematic dispossession of Palestinians):

    1962 JFK sends team to inspect Israeli nuclear facility; Israel disguises the plant, cheats.
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/26/how-the-israelis-hoodwinked-jfk-on-going-nuclear-dimona-atoms-for-peace/

    JFK also was intent on dismantling the CIA, perhaps the core element of the "Deep State."


    1962 Eichmann executed. This is a crucial event: Israel got rid of the last potential witness to Jewish infamy in condemning fellow Jews to death: there's every reason to believe the deportation of Hungarian Jews was not just a matter of neglect on the part of Jewish leaders, but a contract: Eichmann was 'hired' to be the Levi who would smite Jews that zionist leaders did not think sufficiently committed to the zionist project. Check out Exodus 32. Recognize that the Jewish leave-taking from Europe and in-gathering of Diaspora in Palestine WAS a full replication of Exodus, including the slaying of those Jews who 'worshipped the Golden Calf'. You're a leader & trainer; you know that "choosing" a team also involves de-selecting persons deemed unfit to be among the "chosen." Moses dealt with this group by calling upon Levites to kill them. Eichmann was assigned to kill un-chosen Jews.

    November 23, 1963 JFK assassinated. A Deep State-Israeli two-fer

    1965 The Apollo Affair: Jews steal uranium from USA in their on-going project to build a nuclear bomb

    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel's nuke facility. They failed.
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  178. Gilles says:
    @Logan
    Did a little more research. Apparently they fired a number of torpedoes, only one of which hit the ship, but which blew a 40' hole in the side. Obviously adequate equipment to sink the ship had it not hit where it did.

    But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.

    I do know that "fog of war" has led to even more bizarre incidents of misidentification and "friendly fire."

    “But does not explain why they did not finish off the crippled ship if that was indeed their goal from the beginning.”

    Because the Liberty crew were able to jury rig an antenna and restore comm, enough to dispatch a successful distress message, most certainly intercepted by Israeli forces despite their jamming.

    What else explains the sudden cessation of the attack and offer of assistance from the torpedo boat crew, smartly rejected by McGonagle.

    Gilles

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  179. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @bjondo
    Logan, the cubicle Jew:

    "I get paid 1 shekel per lie; 2 shekels for each response to a lie; 3 shekels per angry response; 4 shekels for time wasting. 6 shekels for non sequitur response that has 'em wasting time"

    what is your pay for being a takkiyah cuck ?

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  180. MrLiberty says:

    As AIPAC OWNS and controls the US Congress, calls for an investigation, while wonderful to finally see from this organization, mean little. Johnson’s lies led to 50,000 dead US soldiers in Vietnam and millions of dead Vietnamese. His lies on behalf of Israel in this case will never be given the treatment they deserve, and most assuredly Israel will NEVER be exposed as the murderers they are to enough eyes to matter.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "IPAC OWNS and controls the US Congress. ... Johnson’s lies on behalf of Israel..."

    His successors, Bush and Cheney, sold out to ziocons completely and thus they were even worse for the US than the traitorous Johnson. http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74#complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74
    "July 8, 1996: The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” [WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/7/2002; CHICAGO SUN-TIMES, 3/6/2003] The paper, whose lead author is neoconservative Richard Perle, is meant to advise the new, right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. ...It advocates making a complete break with past policies by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism.…” [GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002] Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon (see February 1982), the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” the paper says. [PERLE, 7/8/1996; GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002; CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, 3/19/2003] Iraq is first on the list of nations to be transformed. Saddam Hussein must be overthrown, the authors say."

    Don't we recognize the spectacular results of the Clean Break? -- The destroyed Iraq, Syria, Libya, and the ruined EU (flooded with the refugees and low-IQ migrants). The loss of trillions of dollars for the ziocon project in the context of crumbling infrastructure and obscene "health-care" system in the US. The ziocons consumed the US. Soon it will be just an empty shell left by the voracious ziocon parasitoid that is ready to relocate and devour other peoples and other states.
    Four million dead civilians, including, hundreds of thousands of dead children in the Middle East. They are the victims of Israel-firsters.

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  181. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    Past (Israeli attack on USS Liberty) is Prologue:

    Although you probably didn't hear about it in US Lügenpresse, if you read solid internet sites like SicSemperTyrannis or Moon of Alabama, you will be aware that the Syrian Arab Army, in coordination with Russian, Hezbollah, and Iranian fighters and advisors, have broken the ISIS siege of Deir Ezzor. The morale boost to the SAA from this long and bloody campaign has Uncle Sam and his kosher godfather crapping in their gutchies.

    Uncle Sam, in his everlasting search for peace and tranquility, is doing his best to throw a monkey wrench into a Hezbollah-negotiated deal by which ISIS fighters and some civilians could depart in busses: USA is holding up the busses in the desert, where passengers are deprived of food and water. The plan appears to be to starve them to death.

    On a more immediate front, US has hired Kurdish fighters to ensure that SAA does not push through to regain control of Syria's rich oil fields.

    As for Unc Sam's kosher godfather, the Iranian bogey man has turned his normally soft and mellow eyes into swirling pinwheels of red, green and purple:

    "Iran intends to set up bases in Syria!!"

    "Iran is gonna move its nuclear facilities to Syria!

    "Iran is gonna hide under your bed and grab your nuts while you -- um, do whatever it is you do when the night is long and you're scared out of your gutchies."

    So kosher godfather has sent his marching orders -- to the U S Congress (those of that body who are not still in Israel):

    ISRAEL NEEDS TO PREPARE AMERICA FOR THE UPCOMING CONFLICT IN SYRIA

    An Israeli tipping point may have been reached, forcing Israel to either be resigned to a permanent Iranian presence in Syria or significantly increase its operations in Syria, potentially escalating into a wider regional war.

     

    The article explains that Netanyahu did a man dance in front of Putin, demanding to know exactly what Russia intended to do about pesky Iran. Putin dismissed him with a flick of the finger: "Iran is Russia's strategic ally in the Middle East"
    .
    So now, USA has to be worried because Israel is gonna have to attack Russia, and how is Russia gonna react when Russian troops are killed? It's gonna cause a regional war!

    . .The region could be ignited with a single match. That light could be a significant Israeli attack in Syria in response to the increased military transfers facilitated by a permanent Iranian presence, starting the engine toward a wider regional conflagration.

     

    And yet,

    As former head of the National Security Council Yaakov Amidror said, “At the end of the day it is our responsibility, not the responsibility of the Americans, or the Russians, to guarantee ourselves, and we will take all the measures that are needed for that.”
     
    So does that mean that it's going to become a problem for USA when Israel attacks Russian who are operating in alliance with Iran in Syria, or not?

    I'm so confused.

    There is no doubt the Iranians will be testing Israel very soon, feeling secure that no one including the US will come to their aid. American resolve to stand by an essential ally will be severely tested, as many US allies will not choose Israel’s side if Israel acts.

    The West mistakenly believes the imminent defeat of Islamic State (ISIS) will stabilize Syria and the surrounding region, but nothing could be further from the truth. ISIS with its offshoots will turn back to insurgency, while the Islamist Iranian victors solidify their land corridor to the Mediterranean
     
    What we have is:
    Defeating ISIS was/is a bad thing
    Russia is on Iran's side and will not come to Israel's aid against Iran
    Neither will most of the rest of the world
    Neither will USA
    but
    There is no need for US to come to the aid of Israel because it is Israel's responsibility to defend itself
    Israel will have to kill Russians
    Which will implicate USA in a regional conflict
    Which Israel will set off by attacking Russia

    THEREFORE: Israelis are going to be hard at work twisting arms of US Congressmen to turn against their president and against the best interests of the US citizens and come to the aid of Israel when it sets off a regional war against the Iranian boogie man under its bed:


    . . .
    This is why Israel must prepare its American ally sooner rather than later to know that Israel may not be able to sit idly by while Iran’s uses its new base to transfer more and more powerful weaponry to Hezbollah.
     
    ---

    Yo

    Kim

    Can your nukes reach Tel Aviv?

    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .

    Read More
    • Replies: @truthtellerAryan
    In what way is Hezbollah " terrorist". ? The Talmud said so? Shamir? Bad teeth ugly critter Begin? Live in your own shit for 8 yrs Sharon? I believe Adolf Hitler accused the hoarders, Usurers ( this practice is only done to Goyim) , etc... as terrorist. If you think Hezbollah or Hamas is a terrorist group, then why are we constantly reminded of " terrorists" that Hitler helped the get rid of as victims of THE GREATEST CRIME ever committed, can't even question it's records. One day all truth will come out. I wonder if all these museums of fake holofaux will be allowed to stand......
    , @anonymous

    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .
     
    John McCain will be so disappointed that you forgot to mention the "moderate" ISIS goat boys that US trained & armed,
    and Prince Salman will think you ungrateful for failing to acknowledge Saudi funding of ISIS goat boys, but your friendly US quartermaster will prolly be glad you overlooked that ISIS goat boys drove US (Toyota) trucks and carried US weapons,
    Ash Carter will note with arrogant disdain that you did not see his hidden hand behind attacks such as the US air attack on Syrian soldiers that enabled an ISIS attack,
    and Diane Feinstein will be pleased that you did not point out obvious false flag chemical attack that drew in US advisors & covert operatives,
    and Hillary Clinton will be relieved that you didn't notice how she arranged to arm Syrian rebels -- er, goat boys.

    other than that you nailed it.

    l
    o
    l
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  182. MEexpert says:
    @Logan
    I have worked for many years in fire restoration. One of the more interesting effects is what fire does to steel. Steel has to get really, really hot to melt, 1500C. But it loses strength long before it gets anywhere near that hot, starting to lose strength at 300C (572F) and losing pretty much all of it by 800C.

    I have seen many steel I-beams that just slumped under their own weight, much like a licorice stick held by one end. That's from a "normal" fire burning building materials, not one accelerated by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&oq=steel+i+beam+sag+after+fire&gs_l=psy-ab.3.

    What do you think happens when steel pillars holding up multiple stories above them suddenly lose their strength and stiffness?

    http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/materialInFire/Steel/default.htm

    Interestingly, steel that is heated enough to soften it, then cooled properly becomes much stronger.

    Assuming your assumptions are correct. Questions:

    Did the temperature for the entire building rise to the softening level instantaneously? Or could it? Obviously not. With so many floors and different materials that is totally impossible. Would such a high building come down in a manner of controlled demolition? The steel used in Twin Towers was very strength steel. We still have a 64 -thousand dollar question. How did Tower 7 come down?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    How did Tower 7 come down?
     
    What Tower 7?

    Ah, "that" Tower 7.

    Umph.......well...you know....ahm....

    Well, it got on fire by flying debris.
    And....well.....umph......it was on fire, and....ahm.....it was a VERY hot fire.
    All that office material is very flammable and creates a very hot fire.
    Very very ..very hot fire.
    So that fire weakened the structure of the building and it collapsed.

    It was a very special, unique, combination of fire and building design, built and material.
    Like...ah...yes....like freak accident, you know.
    It shouldn't have happened but it did.
    Just....UNIQUE.

    Let's talk about something else.
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  183. Erebus says:
    @Logan
    Found a very interesting article about the fireproofing in the Trade Center. Some of my earlier statements weren't entirely accurate.

    The article is by a guy who did extensive inspections in the Towers the year before they came down. He found multiple deficiencies, with photos of some in the article.

    I can attest to what he says, especially about later trades damaging fire protection features. Here you have a lovely intact 2-hour firewall, and a plumber or electrician cuts a two foot square hole so he can do his stuff. Then leaves it that way. I have seen this literally hundreds of times myself. Most of the time it makes no never mind. But maybe sometimes it does.

    BTW, it seems likely this inspector would have noticed explosive devices while doing such a comprehensive inspection.

    Excellent article, IMO.

    http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-155/issue-10/world-trade-center-disaster/volume-ii-the-ruins-and-the-rebirth/fireproofing-at-the-wtc-towers.html

    First, yes I also assumed the UL 6hr rating would be for the steel/fireproofing combination. The steels that can handle 1100C for 6hrs unprotected are normally called “Tungsten” or “Titanium”. :-)
    I also agree that too many trades people treat fire protection as nothing more than an impediment to their work.

    As for the rest in your #155 & #157, let’s agree to resist turning this excellent article on the Liberty into yet another tortured wrangle about 9/11.

    Cheers.

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  184. @Rurik

    the Fed and it’s sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.
     
    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations

    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations

    Perhaps in the past it might have, but by now they have cooked the books to such an extent that we would elicit nothing. Ron Paul tried and failed to audit them. Rand Paul is trying and failing. Despite that, they continue to resist. Only torches and pitchforks will bring them down.

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  185. “Zalmay Khalilzad” , how did this lowlife became such a loyal slave to turn against his own people? The Poor Afghanis. Plz someone with a good psychological background help explain such treachery from one of the most loyal cultures
    As for some of our own, Ramsfeld, Bolton, Weinberger, and the whore of whores, Cheney….,it’s no much surprise. They’ve been trained in the art all their lives. Cowards is what they’ve been raised as.

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  186. @Logan
    So what do you think the Israeli reason was for the attack? It made even less sense for them to attack an American ship than for the Egyptians to do so.

    Also, I wonder about the claims that the Israelis were trying to sink the ship and kill the entire crew. I get that the American crew was very brave and competent. But it's just really not that hard to sink a ship. People have been doing it for thousands of years.

    If they really intended to sink the Liberty, they don't seem to have brought the right equipment along. I'm not familiar with the weaponry the Israelis had available at the time, but it seems likely they had a number of weapons that would have sunk the ship right quickly.

    It’s called ” manufacturing a reason ” You said it, Egypt had a justified reason to do it, so Jooies are quick to act because the “usual suspect ” is already established. They didn’t finish the job, as LBJ would have liked. We are still debating, with all the proof we have, whether Jews can ever do wrong!!!!!!
    Exactly the same for 911. By the time the truth comes out ( never in this bondage), the mission would be accomplished…. The dead Iraqis, Afghanis, Libyans, Syrians, won’t come back to see justice ……

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  187. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Eagle Eye
    Re-read the following lines from the article, remembering that whatever the U.S. public was told at the time or later, the U.S. military and U.S. intelligence agencies (NSA) knew in virtually real time - through electronic surveillance and conventional humint - that Israeli planes and ships were involved in the attack.

    It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time.

    ...

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with torpedo boats from the sea.

     

    The Israelis, of course, would have known that the U.S. government could not be fooled. Quite possibly, Israel acted under U.S. orders.

    Again - re-read the following line, remembering that the unstated SUBJECT of this sentence is a Democratic president, LBJ, who:

    (1) probably had his predecessor assassinated; (2) was also responsible for the Gulf of Tonkin incident (false flag op to ramp up the Vietnam war) and (3) ordered the USS Pueblo incident (deliberate provocation of North Korea).


    The cover-up of the attack began immediately.
     

    remembering that the unstated SUBJECT of this sentence is a Democratic president, LBJ, who:

    (1) probably had his predecessor assassinated; (2) was also responsible for the Gulf of Tonkin incident (false flag op to ramp up the Vietnam war) and (3) ordered the USS Pueblo incident (deliberate provocation of North Korea).

    The best thing about the Johnson presidency was the manner of its ending. Johnson was forced out by the brothers and sisters, friends and lovers of the hundreds of thousands of young men conscripted to fight a criminal war of aggression in Vietnam. Those young people gathered outside the White House and chanted:

    LBJ, LBJ. How many kids did you killed today.

    That was the seen at the time, I believe correctly, as the determining factor in Johnson’s decision not to run in ’68.

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  188. Erebus says:
    @ChuckOrloski
    Erebus,

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit "diagree."

    So scientific & understandable, your recommended steel pail and kerosene experiment might get a Threat Code "black" (no, no) warning from our Ministry of Public Education.

    Thank you!

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit “diagree.”

    Hey, no problem Chuck, but “scientific” wouldn’t be how I describe it. At best it can provide a starting point to a physical reality based discussion, something sorely needed in some circles.

    Code Black huh? Damn, not again!

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Erebus,

    Yes... I believe our present False Flag threat-level is "black."

    In reverse to the one implemented by former-D.H.S.
    Secretary Tom Ridge, my (color coded) threat-alert system
    proceeds thusly:

    BROWN for shit as likely to hit the fan; i.e., Charlottesville.

    RED for an impending False Flag attack which will involve > 3 casualties, a dead gunman, a hunt for complicit Islamo-Fascists...,
    and three full days of Corporate Media (24/7) coverage of the incident.

    BLACK is when our ZUSA government's loss of patience and DARK "will" to either intensify current immoral wars or attack another "rogue state" has maxed out.

    Thanks!
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  189. peterAUS says:
    @MEexpert
    Assuming your assumptions are correct. Questions:

    Did the temperature for the entire building rise to the softening level instantaneously? Or could it? Obviously not. With so many floors and different materials that is totally impossible. Would such a high building come down in a manner of controlled demolition? The steel used in Twin Towers was very strength steel. We still have a 64 -thousand dollar question. How did Tower 7 come down?

    How did Tower 7 come down?

    What Tower 7?

    Ah, “that” Tower 7.

    Umph…….well…you know….ahm….

    Well, it got on fire by flying debris.
    And….well…..umph……it was on fire, and….ahm…..it was a VERY hot fire.
    All that office material is very flammable and creates a very hot fire.
    Very very ..very hot fire.
    So that fire weakened the structure of the building and it collapsed.

    It was a very special, unique, combination of fire and building design, built and material.
    Like…ah…yes….like freak accident, you know.
    It shouldn’t have happened but it did.
    Just….UNIQUE.

    Let’s talk about something else.

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  190. @anon
    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .

    In what way is Hezbollah ” terrorist”. ? The Talmud said so? Shamir? Bad teeth ugly critter Begin? Live in your own shit for 8 yrs Sharon? I believe Adolf Hitler accused the hoarders, Usurers ( this practice is only done to Goyim) , etc… as terrorist. If you think Hezbollah or Hamas is a terrorist group, then why are we constantly reminded of ” terrorists” that Hitler helped the get rid of as victims of THE GREATEST CRIME ever committed, can’t even question it’s records. One day all truth will come out. I wonder if all these museums of fake holofaux will be allowed to stand……

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  191. Art says:
    @peterAUS
    Ah...now I see.
    Thank you.

    Up to 1967 there was no Bad Deep State.
    It was, as in this case, young dedicated brave patriots etc....etc.....

    Then this incident happened.
    Sorry, not an incident.
    The cold blooded murder of young dedicated etc.....

    And after that we got Bad Deep State.

    Got it.

    Israel, by this cold blooded etc.....actually created Bad Deep State.

    Bloody Israelis.

    Man...these Jews ...how do they do that?
    They, by alt-right consensus, aren't that smart.
    And, by alt-right consensus too, West is very smart.

    So, not so smart minority subverted much smarter majority.

    F*&k, that's confusing.
    Usually smart subvert/trick not so smart.

    Maybe because they are bad.
    So, bad minority subverted much smarter majority.
    Which couldn't recognize that subverting.
    But, then, that's not very smart I'd say. Not recognizing I mean.

    Still confusing.

    Probably because I am dumb.
    Yes, that must be it.

    But, then, I've been commanding, training, leading....managing, tutoring....lots of people.
    They must've been even dumber than me.
    But there have been lots of them.

    Confusing.

    Confusing.

    Confusion is your goal – you love confusion, you gain by confusion, you intend confusion – you thrive on confusion.

    “By deception we make war” – that is the Jew mantra.

    Big lies, half truths, and false claims are your memes against the good people of this earth.

    The Jews can never know peace, because they are always working against what it takes to build peace.

    Peace can only occur around truth.

    Think Peace — Art

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  192. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .

    Syrian army +Russian army + Hezbala terrorist army+ Iranian army VS ISIS goat boys and eurofag convert teens.5 years later and still no victory. LoL .

    John McCain will be so disappointed that you forgot to mention the “moderate” ISIS goat boys that US trained & armed,
    and Prince Salman will think you ungrateful for failing to acknowledge Saudi funding of ISIS goat boys, but your friendly US quartermaster will prolly be glad you overlooked that ISIS goat boys drove US (Toyota) trucks and carried US weapons,
    Ash Carter will note with arrogant disdain that you did not see his hidden hand behind attacks such as the US air attack on Syrian soldiers that enabled an ISIS attack,
    and Diane Feinstein will be pleased that you did not point out obvious false flag chemical attack that drew in US advisors & covert operatives,
    and Hillary Clinton will be relieved that you didn’t notice how she arranged to arm Syrian rebels — er, goat boys.

    other than that you nailed it.

    l
    o
    l

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  193. annamaria says:
    @Rurik

    diabolical geniuses.
     
    naw

    two bit swindlers, they just got lucky with Woodrow Wilson being a post turtle

    Israel in 1967 seems to have been extremely well governed.
     
    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-israel-corruption-olmert-20140331-story.html

    http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/files/2015/01/4894458091.jpg

    aren't these things being indicted for corruption as we speak?

    Israel is forcing the US to spend more money and American blood for the future Eretz Israel:

    https://www.rt.com/news/402270-syrian-military-israel-strike/

    http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/un-report-us-led-coalition-airstrikes.html

    “Israeli plane strikes Syrian positions in Hama province, kills two servicemen”
    Nothing changed since the 90-s when ziocons have begun cheerleading for remaking the Middle East to ensure the security of Israel. The moral midget-state wants more blood and more mounds of flesh as if the 4 million slaughtered civilians (including hundreds of thousands of children) are not enough for the ziocons project: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=jewish_institute_for_national_security_affairs_1
    “February 9, 2003: Washington Post: Bush Administration in Near-Perfect Accord with Likud-Run Israeli Government: ” But the US is not just in accord with Israel; it is in accord with Likud, the hardline conservative political party currently in charge of the Israeli government.
    ‘Likudniks Really in Charge Now’ -The Post explains that in Abrams’s and Wurmser’s view, promoting democracy in the Middle East [slaughtering civilians and destroying the neighboring states] is the best way to assure Israel’s security. Like other neoconservatives, they see the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of a “democratic Palestine” as necessary for peace in the region. The Post writes, “Members of the group do not hide their friendships and connections, or their loyalty to strong positions in support of Israel and Likud.” [WASHINGTON POST, 2/9/2003]

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  194. annamaria says:
    @MrLiberty
    As AIPAC OWNS and controls the US Congress, calls for an investigation, while wonderful to finally see from this organization, mean little. Johnson's lies led to 50,000 dead US soldiers in Vietnam and millions of dead Vietnamese. His lies on behalf of Israel in this case will never be given the treatment they deserve, and most assuredly Israel will NEVER be exposed as the murderers they are to enough eyes to matter.

    “IPAC OWNS and controls the US Congress. … Johnson’s lies on behalf of Israel…”

    His successors, Bush and Cheney, sold out to ziocons completely and thus they were even worse for the US than the traitorous Johnson. http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74#complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74
    “July 8, 1996: The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” [WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/7/2002; CHICAGO SUN-TIMES, 3/6/2003] The paper, whose lead author is neoconservative Richard Perle, is meant to advise the new, right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. …It advocates making a complete break with past policies by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism.…” [GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002] Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon (see February 1982), the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” the paper says. [PERLE, 7/8/1996; GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002; CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, 3/19/2003] Iraq is first on the list of nations to be transformed. Saddam Hussein must be overthrown, the authors say.”

    Don’t we recognize the spectacular results of the Clean Break? — The destroyed Iraq, Syria, Libya, and the ruined EU (flooded with the refugees and low-IQ migrants). The loss of trillions of dollars for the ziocon project in the context of crumbling infrastructure and obscene “health-care” system in the US. The ziocons consumed the US. Soon it will be just an empty shell left by the voracious ziocon parasitoid that is ready to relocate and devour other peoples and other states.
    Four million dead civilians, including, hundreds of thousands of dead children in the Middle East. They are the victims of Israel-firsters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Don't forget Jimmy Carter -- he let the Trojan Horse in: Golda Meir played him like a fiddle: he got tough with Israel: You have GOT to stop settlements, move to 1967 borders, he demanded.
    Golda negotiated: OK, we want a museum to perpetual Jewish suffering, we want you to pay for it, we want you to give us land at your front door for it.
    Voila, the holocau$t museum.

    Carter stood right in line w/ Wilson, FDR, Truman in allowing Jews to take over.
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  195. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @annamaria
    "IPAC OWNS and controls the US Congress. ... Johnson’s lies on behalf of Israel..."

    His successors, Bush and Cheney, sold out to ziocons completely and thus they were even worse for the US than the traitorous Johnson. http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74#complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_74
    "July 8, 1996: The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” [WASHINGTON TIMES, 10/7/2002; CHICAGO SUN-TIMES, 3/6/2003] The paper, whose lead author is neoconservative Richard Perle, is meant to advise the new, right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. ...It advocates making a complete break with past policies by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism.…” [GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002] Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon (see February 1982), the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced. “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” the paper says. [PERLE, 7/8/1996; GUARDIAN, 9/3/2002; CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, 3/19/2003] Iraq is first on the list of nations to be transformed. Saddam Hussein must be overthrown, the authors say."

    Don't we recognize the spectacular results of the Clean Break? -- The destroyed Iraq, Syria, Libya, and the ruined EU (flooded with the refugees and low-IQ migrants). The loss of trillions of dollars for the ziocon project in the context of crumbling infrastructure and obscene "health-care" system in the US. The ziocons consumed the US. Soon it will be just an empty shell left by the voracious ziocon parasitoid that is ready to relocate and devour other peoples and other states.
    Four million dead civilians, including, hundreds of thousands of dead children in the Middle East. They are the victims of Israel-firsters.

    Don’t forget Jimmy Carter — he let the Trojan Horse in: Golda Meir played him like a fiddle: he got tough with Israel: You have GOT to stop settlements, move to 1967 borders, he demanded.
    Golda negotiated: OK, we want a museum to perpetual Jewish suffering, we want you to pay for it, we want you to give us land at your front door for it.
    Voila, the holocau$t museum.

    Carter stood right in line w/ Wilson, FDR, Truman in allowing Jews to take over.

    Read More
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  196. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @peterAUS
    Ah...now I see.
    Thank you.

    Up to 1967 there was no Bad Deep State.
    It was, as in this case, young dedicated brave patriots etc....etc.....

    Then this incident happened.
    Sorry, not an incident.
    The cold blooded murder of young dedicated etc.....

    And after that we got Bad Deep State.

    Got it.

    Israel, by this cold blooded etc.....actually created Bad Deep State.

    Bloody Israelis.

    Man...these Jews ...how do they do that?
    They, by alt-right consensus, aren't that smart.
    And, by alt-right consensus too, West is very smart.

    So, not so smart minority subverted much smarter majority.

    F*&k, that's confusing.
    Usually smart subvert/trick not so smart.

    Maybe because they are bad.
    So, bad minority subverted much smarter majority.
    Which couldn't recognize that subverting.
    But, then, that's not very smart I'd say. Not recognizing I mean.

    Still confusing.

    Probably because I am dumb.
    Yes, that must be it.

    But, then, I've been commanding, training, leading....managing, tutoring....lots of people.
    They must've been even dumber than me.
    But there have been lots of them.

    Confusing.

    PeterAUS —

    Congrats on your training & leading gigs; I don’t do chest-thumping — hurts like hell pounding on the pacemaker.

    You’re correct, of course, Deep State was not a ‘switch off – switch on’ function.

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.

    Consider a few key events/dates in Israel’s pre-Liberty history (fast-forwarding from Jewish expulsion of British, and more-or-less systematic dispossession of Palestinians):

    1962 JFK sends team to inspect Israeli nuclear facility; Israel disguises the plant, cheats.

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/26/how-the-israelis-hoodwinked-jfk-on-going-nuclear-dimona-atoms-for-peace/

    JFK also was intent on dismantling the CIA, perhaps the core element of the “Deep State.”

    1962 Eichmann executed. This is a crucial event: Israel got rid of the last potential witness to Jewish infamy in condemning fellow Jews to death: there’s every reason to believe the deportation of Hungarian Jews was not just a matter of neglect on the part of Jewish leaders, but a contract: Eichmann was ‘hired’ to be the Levi who would smite Jews that zionist leaders did not think sufficiently committed to the zionist project. Check out Exodus 32. Recognize that the Jewish leave-taking from Europe and in-gathering of Diaspora in Palestine WAS a full replication of Exodus, including the slaying of those Jews who ‘worshipped the Golden Calf’. You’re a leader & trainer; you know that “choosing” a team also involves de-selecting persons deemed unfit to be among the “chosen.” Moses dealt with this group by calling upon Levites to kill them. Eichmann was assigned to kill un-chosen Jews.

    November 23, 1963 JFK assassinated. A Deep State-Israeli two-fer

    1965 The Apollo Affair: Jews steal uranium from USA in their on-going project to build a nuclear bomb

    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.

    Read More
    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.
     
    Agree.
    I would actually appreciate you expanding on it.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.
     
    Agree.
    Now, that “wrested” is a bit tricky word I think. Maybe they were good at it. Division of labour between TWO (or more?) groups UNITED by single goal?
    How about this: one group, dominant at the time (Anglo-Saxons) simply getting on board a group they thought was competent and would always be second? In time the second becoming the first? Maybe there is something in this theory? If yes, then, maybe, blaming Jews would sound almost……hypocritical?
    Just a thought.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.
     
    Maybe.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.
     
    Agree.
    Now, again, was it only Jews or some other parties as well?
    One could even say that Jews earned that by heavy casualties and being smart (Project Manhattan).


    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.
     
    Let’s not lose focus here. Especially re those Foxbats…….
    Liberty incident.
    I am failing to see, actually, what exactly is the problem here?
    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.
    The cover-up was, from politically/strategically expedient reasons at the time, intensive and comprehensive.
    A proper inquiry, in this climate, is impossible.
    The victims should be recognized, by US administration.
    The victims/families should be compensated by both US administration and Israeli government.

    Like:
    26 February 1991: Nine British soldiers of the 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, were killed and further 11 injured after their Warrior armoured vehicles were hit by Maverick missiles fired by two U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft An Oxford inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killings.
    And result:
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-19/news/9202140948_1_air-force-pilots-friendly-fire-deaths-fluorescent-panels
    Some excerpts from the article for lazy ones:

    The jury`s finding in Oxford, England, could result in calls for the pilots` extradition to England and trial for manslaughter.
    But a British Home Office spokesman told The Associated Press that he did not believe British law would sanction criminal action for killings that occurred during a war overseas.
    Anne Leech, whose 20-year-old son was among those killed, said she did not want to see the pilots prosecuted.
    ``We just wanted their version of what happened. To be honest, all we would really like is to know why they did it, that`s all we`ve ever wanted to know,`` she said.
    The pilots were not at the inquest and the Pentagon has refused to release their names, although heavily censored versions of their statements were given to the British government.
    The soldiers` families originally were told their sons died in a night battle. Then they were told the fight occurred in daylight but that blowing sand obscured the pilots` visibility.
     
    Construct some great conspiracy around this too?
    Blame the Jews ?
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  197. @Erebus

    Please pardon me? My fingertip missed the target and hit “diagree.”
     
    Hey, no problem Chuck, but "scientific" wouldn't be how I describe it. At best it can provide a starting point to a physical reality based discussion, something sorely needed in some circles.

    Code Black huh? Damn, not again!

    Erebus,

    Yes… I believe our present False Flag threat-level is “black.”

    In reverse to the one implemented by former-D.H.S.
    Secretary Tom Ridge, my (color coded) threat-alert system
    proceeds thusly:

    BROWN for shit as likely to hit the fan; i.e., Charlottesville.

    RED for an impending False Flag attack which will involve > 3 casualties, a dead gunman, a hunt for complicit Islamo-Fascists…,
    and three full days of Corporate Media (24/7) coverage of the incident.

    BLACK is when our ZUSA government’s loss of patience and DARK “will” to either intensify current immoral wars or attack another “rogue state” has maxed out.

    Thanks!

    Read More
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  198. If there’s a decent inquiry, it shouldn’t neglect the occult component of this tragedy. It’s huge, and it’s pointing right to the “sacred of sacred” of the perpetrators. Something so important to them, that despite all high risks to be identified as such they won’t commit a single crime without using it. Just like most serial killers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    AB,

    I for one find it very strange that the cult-like Hasbara regulars, i.e., Sam "The Sham" Shama, have yet to appear on Mr. Giraldi's latest outing of the ugly truth.

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  199. peterAUS says:
    @anonymous
    PeterAUS --

    Congrats on your training & leading gigs; I don't do chest-thumping -- hurts like hell pounding on the pacemaker.

    You're correct, of course, Deep State was not a 'switch off - switch on' function.

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted -- quite deliberately -- to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the 'Left Behinds').
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.

    Consider a few key events/dates in Israel's pre-Liberty history (fast-forwarding from Jewish expulsion of British, and more-or-less systematic dispossession of Palestinians):

    1962 JFK sends team to inspect Israeli nuclear facility; Israel disguises the plant, cheats.
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/26/how-the-israelis-hoodwinked-jfk-on-going-nuclear-dimona-atoms-for-peace/

    JFK also was intent on dismantling the CIA, perhaps the core element of the "Deep State."


    1962 Eichmann executed. This is a crucial event: Israel got rid of the last potential witness to Jewish infamy in condemning fellow Jews to death: there's every reason to believe the deportation of Hungarian Jews was not just a matter of neglect on the part of Jewish leaders, but a contract: Eichmann was 'hired' to be the Levi who would smite Jews that zionist leaders did not think sufficiently committed to the zionist project. Check out Exodus 32. Recognize that the Jewish leave-taking from Europe and in-gathering of Diaspora in Palestine WAS a full replication of Exodus, including the slaying of those Jews who 'worshipped the Golden Calf'. You're a leader & trainer; you know that "choosing" a team also involves de-selecting persons deemed unfit to be among the "chosen." Moses dealt with this group by calling upon Levites to kill them. Eichmann was assigned to kill un-chosen Jews.

    November 23, 1963 JFK assassinated. A Deep State-Israeli two-fer

    1965 The Apollo Affair: Jews steal uranium from USA in their on-going project to build a nuclear bomb

    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel's nuke facility. They failed.

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.

    Agree.
    I would actually appreciate you expanding on it.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.

    Agree.
    Now, that “wrested” is a bit tricky word I think. Maybe they were good at it. Division of labour between TWO (or more?) groups UNITED by single goal?
    How about this: one group, dominant at the time (Anglo-Saxons) simply getting on board a group they thought was competent and would always be second? In time the second becoming the first? Maybe there is something in this theory? If yes, then, maybe, blaming Jews would sound almost……hypocritical?
    Just a thought.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.

    Maybe.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.

    Agree.
    Now, again, was it only Jews or some other parties as well?
    One could even say that Jews earned that by heavy casualties and being smart (Project Manhattan).

    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.

    Let’s not lose focus here. Especially re those Foxbats…….
    Liberty incident.
    I am failing to see, actually, what exactly is the problem here?
    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.
    The cover-up was, from politically/strategically expedient reasons at the time, intensive and comprehensive.
    A proper inquiry, in this climate, is impossible.
    The victims should be recognized, by US administration.
    The victims/families should be compensated by both US administration and Israeli government.

    Like:
    26 February 1991: Nine British soldiers of the 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, were killed and further 11 injured after their Warrior armoured vehicles were hit by Maverick missiles fired by two U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft An Oxford inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killings.
    And result:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-19/news/9202140948_1_air-force-pilots-friendly-fire-deaths-fluorescent-panels

    Some excerpts from the article for lazy ones:

    The jury`s finding in Oxford, England, could result in calls for the pilots` extradition to England and trial for manslaughter.
    But a British Home Office spokesman told The Associated Press that he did not believe British law would sanction criminal action for killings that occurred during a war overseas.
    Anne Leech, whose 20-year-old son was among those killed, said she did not want to see the pilots prosecuted.
    “We just wanted their version of what happened. To be honest, all we would really like is to know why they did it, that`s all we`ve ever wanted to know,“ she said.
    The pilots were not at the inquest and the Pentagon has refused to release their names, although heavily censored versions of their statements were given to the British government.
    The soldiers` families originally were told their sons died in a night battle. Then they were told the fight occurred in daylight but that blowing sand obscured the pilots` visibility.

    Construct some great conspiracy around this too?
    Blame the Jews ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    The documents about ziocons' malicious influence on the US "deciders" are widely available, no need in a conspiracy.
    "Autumn 1992: Influential Neoconservative Academic Advocates Breaking Up Middle Eastern Countries, Including Iraq:" http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=clean+break&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go
    A time line of giving classified information to Israel by various Israel-firsters in the US government: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=douglas_feith
    Neoconservative movement in the US: http://historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=irving_kristol_1
    , @anonymous

    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.
     
    Highly unlikely.
    According to some Israeli historians, "the war was over in 6 minutes, not 6 days" --
    Israel destroyed Egypt's air force on June 5, 1967.

    The Liberty was attacked on June 8, 1967.
    So it's not likely the attack was a false flag pretending to be Egyptian fliers attacking US, thereby drawing US into war against Egypt.

    Israelis circled the Liberty for hours before they commenced the attack. The main air attack lasted for 90 minutes.

    According to Ernie Gallo, who was there:

    "Israel had complete air superiority over the Sinai" (the Liberty was in the Mediterranean, off the Sinai).

    "Israel overflew 12 times in a four hour period, until around noon. Then, Israel began to strafe at 2:00; they strafed and bombed and dropped napalm canisters port & starboard, machine gunned, 20 mm cannon . . . over 90 minutes . . . wiped out bridge . . .
    Then, torpedo boats materialized, Israel continued to strafe and torpedo . . . one torpedo struck starboard . . .where our communications crew was . . . killing 24 . . . 2 Marines, 1 NSA civilian, rest were sailors."

    Israel then flew two helicopters with Israeli Marines over the Liberty, apparently intending to rappel to the Liberty, but that plan was scuttled.
    . . .

    "Israelis machine-gunned our life rafts, a violation of Geneva conventions."

    Not the substance of an "incident."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGLGvmxZuH0
     
    One (other) possible reason for the attack on the Liberty, according to Gallo, is that Liberty crewmen might have become aware that Israel was killing Egyptian POWs and burying their bodies in the sands in the Sinai.

    A few weeks ago Norman Finkelstein posted a three-way discussion with himself, Phil Weiss and James North.
    Regarding the Liberty incident, Finkelstein said:

    Weiss: The conventional theory is the Liberty had radio surveillance and knocking out the Liberty allowed Israel to continue the war another two days.

    It’s alleged that the Liberty had gotten wind of the fact that Israel was going to seize the Golan, so Israel attacked it. But this theory doesn’t hold up on close inspection.

    [Finkelstein]: My own hypothesis is, this is Israel’s big moment, the climactic of the Jewish people, a collective paroxysm-cum-orgasm. All the armed services want to get a piece of the action. The air force, the army, the navy.

    The navy hadn’t yet seen real combat. As the war was winding down, they were probably anxious to be part of this glorious chapter. To play their part in the Jewish people’s revenge on the goyim.

    Remember, the Israelis don’t just hate Arabs. They’re in an eternal war with all the goyim. All the goyim wanted the Jews dead. Just read Daniel Goldhagen if you have any doubts. The Americans are goyim. They refused entry to Jews fleeing the Holocaust; they didn’t bomb the railway tracks to Auschwitz; they, too, wanted all the Jews dead. Now they’re butting into our war, dispatching a spy ship into our waters, trying to restrain us in our moment of glory. Fuck the Americans! Fuck the goyim! Long live the Jews!

    Besides the Israeli air assault on the USS Liberty, the Israeli navy torpedoed the vessel. It got to share in the mock heroics and avenge the millennial suffering of the Jews. Everyone got their 15 minutes of drawing blood, in memoriam of the Jewish martyrs.

    I am the first to admit gaps in my hypothesis but it probably gets closer to the truth than positing a rational motive.

    North: How was the attack suppressed?

    Raison d’etat. Of course President Johnson knew what happened. But Israel was now the US’s “strategic asset” in the Middle East, so Johnson gave it a pass. http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/
     
    , @Wizard of Oz
    See #205

    World War 2 a triumph [sic] for the Jews** [sic]!!!

    You can't be serious.

    **not "fanatical and single minded Zionists"

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  200. prusmc says:
    @anonymous

    The irony.
     
    nah

    not irony.

    a point of origin

    a beginning point

    rather, the second or maybe third or fourth point from the beginning of Israeli subversion of US politics/government into Israel's bitch

    Eisenhower forced Israel to back down from its scheme to invade Egypt
    Israel marking time
    simmering


    betimes, Israelis steals uranium from USA
    Israel builds nuclear bombs
    then Israelis cheated when JFK demanded to inspect Israeli nuke facilities
    then JFK demanded that Israel register its foreign agents
    all of these unconscionable demands on poor wittle persecuted Israel were too much for the fledgling state
    JFK got offed
    Matilda "Esther" Krim and hubby Mordechai attach short reins to a willing LBJ
    THEN the deep state begins digging in - -- -

    Does Robert Caro’s detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Ktimm?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Miro23

    Does Robert Caro’s detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Krimm?
     
    I don't know about Robert Caro's book but Philip Nelson's excellent "LBJ from Mastermind to "The Colossus" does deal with Mathilde Krimm:

    P.213 "records showed numerous instances of [Mathilde] passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint. Moreover on the morning of June 5, when Johnson was informed at 4:30 a.m. that Israel had attacked Egypt, the first person he told about it was Mathilde Krimm, going to her White House bedroom to inform her that 'The war had started'".

    And on the same page;

    As demonstrated through the last several chapters, it is indisputable that, by 1967, Lyndon Johnson had surrounded himself with ardent and strident, Jewish and non-Jewish, militant Zionists, people who had worked for decades to first establish the nation of Israel and then for two more decades to expand its borders. As will be demonstrated shortly, this was done in such a way that evidence was left that reflected months of planning. The Six Day War was not spontaneous, or randomly started by either side - it had been planned for months, as a joint effort between the CIA and the Israeli Mossad. The precept of "need to know" strictly limited the knowledge of most presidential advisers and others in the executive branch, except for Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara.

    Moreover, such other people as George Ball and Dean Rusk, and therefore the State Department, were not "in the loop" in this planning. The weight of the evidence indicates that a plan was executed according to a long-scheduled, sophisticated operation that had been prepared from the start within the White House to make it appear that Israel had been the victim of a surprise attack by its Arab neighbors.

    "All during the six days of carnage that Israel inflicted on its neighbors."
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  201. @AB_Anonymous
    If there’s a decent inquiry, it shouldn’t neglect the occult component of this tragedy. It’s huge, and it’s pointing right to the “sacred of sacred” of the perpetrators. Something so important to them, that despite all high risks to be identified as such they won’t commit a single crime without using it. Just like most serial killers.

    AB,

    I for one find it very strange that the cult-like Hasbara regulars, i.e., Sam “The Sham” Shama, have yet to appear on Mr. Giraldi’s latest outing of the ugly truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
    ChuckOrloski,

    Ca ne va pas la tête, ou quoi ? It's very strange that people with such low IQ and such high suspicion level (usually in direct correlation) have yet to appear on .... Get a life.

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  202. Miro23 says:
    @prusmc
    Does Robert Caro's detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Ktimm?

    Does Robert Caro’s detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Krimm?

    I don’t know about Robert Caro’s book but Philip Nelson’s excellent “LBJ from Mastermind to “The Colossus” does deal with Mathilde Krimm:

    P.213 “records showed numerous instances of [Mathilde] passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint. Moreover on the morning of June 5, when Johnson was informed at 4:30 a.m. that Israel had attacked Egypt, the first person he told about it was Mathilde Krimm, going to her White House bedroom to inform her that ‘The war had started’”.

    And on the same page;

    As demonstrated through the last several chapters, it is indisputable that, by 1967, Lyndon Johnson had surrounded himself with ardent and strident, Jewish and non-Jewish, militant Zionists, people who had worked for decades to first establish the nation of Israel and then for two more decades to expand its borders. As will be demonstrated shortly, this was done in such a way that evidence was left that reflected months of planning. The Six Day War was not spontaneous, or randomly started by either side – it had been planned for months, as a joint effort between the CIA and the Israeli Mossad. The precept of “need to know” strictly limited the knowledge of most presidential advisers and others in the executive branch, except for Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara.

    Moreover, such other people as George Ball and Dean Rusk, and therefore the State Department, were not “in the loop” in this planning. The weight of the evidence indicates that a plan was executed according to a long-scheduled, sophisticated operation that had been prepared from the start within the White House to make it appear that Israel had been the victim of a surprise attack by its Arab neighbors.

    “All during the six days of carnage that Israel inflicted on its neighbors.”

    Read More
    • Disagree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Interesting that none of that gives any support to a view of the USS Linerty attack being anything other than an irritating and potentially embarrassing stuff up from LBJ's point of view.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    I hadn't heard of Mathilde Krim but, looking her up it is obvious that there were plenty òf good reasons why she might be a guest at the White House without any necessity to suppose she was having it off with LBJ. I note that your "excellent" source doesn't bother to spell her name correctly - or is that just your introduced error?

    It doesn't take much thought to explain why LBJ wouldn't have wanted a big beat up on Israel at the point where it had established itself as militarily dominant in the ME and the US was stuck in Vietnam. You don't need Mathilde at all.
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  203. annamaria says:
    @peterAUS

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.
     
    Agree.
    I would actually appreciate you expanding on it.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.
     
    Agree.
    Now, that “wrested” is a bit tricky word I think. Maybe they were good at it. Division of labour between TWO (or more?) groups UNITED by single goal?
    How about this: one group, dominant at the time (Anglo-Saxons) simply getting on board a group they thought was competent and would always be second? In time the second becoming the first? Maybe there is something in this theory? If yes, then, maybe, blaming Jews would sound almost……hypocritical?
    Just a thought.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.
     
    Maybe.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.
     
    Agree.
    Now, again, was it only Jews or some other parties as well?
    One could even say that Jews earned that by heavy casualties and being smart (Project Manhattan).


    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.
     
    Let’s not lose focus here. Especially re those Foxbats…….
    Liberty incident.
    I am failing to see, actually, what exactly is the problem here?
    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.
    The cover-up was, from politically/strategically expedient reasons at the time, intensive and comprehensive.
    A proper inquiry, in this climate, is impossible.
    The victims should be recognized, by US administration.
    The victims/families should be compensated by both US administration and Israeli government.

    Like:
    26 February 1991: Nine British soldiers of the 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, were killed and further 11 injured after their Warrior armoured vehicles were hit by Maverick missiles fired by two U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft An Oxford inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killings.
    And result:
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-19/news/9202140948_1_air-force-pilots-friendly-fire-deaths-fluorescent-panels
    Some excerpts from the article for lazy ones:

    The jury`s finding in Oxford, England, could result in calls for the pilots` extradition to England and trial for manslaughter.
    But a British Home Office spokesman told The Associated Press that he did not believe British law would sanction criminal action for killings that occurred during a war overseas.
    Anne Leech, whose 20-year-old son was among those killed, said she did not want to see the pilots prosecuted.
    ``We just wanted their version of what happened. To be honest, all we would really like is to know why they did it, that`s all we`ve ever wanted to know,`` she said.
    The pilots were not at the inquest and the Pentagon has refused to release their names, although heavily censored versions of their statements were given to the British government.
    The soldiers` families originally were told their sons died in a night battle. Then they were told the fight occurred in daylight but that blowing sand obscured the pilots` visibility.
     
    Construct some great conspiracy around this too?
    Blame the Jews ?

    The documents about ziocons’ malicious influence on the US “deciders” are widely available, no need in a conspiracy.
    “Autumn 1992: Influential Neoconservative Academic Advocates Breaking Up Middle Eastern Countries, Including Iraq:” http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=clean+break&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go
    A time line of giving classified information to Israel by various Israel-firsters in the US government: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=douglas_feith
    Neoconservative movement in the US: http://historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=irving_kristol_1

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  204. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @peterAUS

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.
     
    Agree.
    I would actually appreciate you expanding on it.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.
     
    Agree.
    Now, that “wrested” is a bit tricky word I think. Maybe they were good at it. Division of labour between TWO (or more?) groups UNITED by single goal?
    How about this: one group, dominant at the time (Anglo-Saxons) simply getting on board a group they thought was competent and would always be second? In time the second becoming the first? Maybe there is something in this theory? If yes, then, maybe, blaming Jews would sound almost……hypocritical?
    Just a thought.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.
     
    Maybe.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.
     
    Agree.
    Now, again, was it only Jews or some other parties as well?
    One could even say that Jews earned that by heavy casualties and being smart (Project Manhattan).


    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.
     
    Let’s not lose focus here. Especially re those Foxbats…….
    Liberty incident.
    I am failing to see, actually, what exactly is the problem here?
    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.
    The cover-up was, from politically/strategically expedient reasons at the time, intensive and comprehensive.
    A proper inquiry, in this climate, is impossible.
    The victims should be recognized, by US administration.
    The victims/families should be compensated by both US administration and Israeli government.

    Like:
    26 February 1991: Nine British soldiers of the 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, were killed and further 11 injured after their Warrior armoured vehicles were hit by Maverick missiles fired by two U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft An Oxford inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killings.
    And result:
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-19/news/9202140948_1_air-force-pilots-friendly-fire-deaths-fluorescent-panels
    Some excerpts from the article for lazy ones:

    The jury`s finding in Oxford, England, could result in calls for the pilots` extradition to England and trial for manslaughter.
    But a British Home Office spokesman told The Associated Press that he did not believe British law would sanction criminal action for killings that occurred during a war overseas.
    Anne Leech, whose 20-year-old son was among those killed, said she did not want to see the pilots prosecuted.
    ``We just wanted their version of what happened. To be honest, all we would really like is to know why they did it, that`s all we`ve ever wanted to know,`` she said.
    The pilots were not at the inquest and the Pentagon has refused to release their names, although heavily censored versions of their statements were given to the British government.
    The soldiers` families originally were told their sons died in a night battle. Then they were told the fight occurred in daylight but that blowing sand obscured the pilots` visibility.
     
    Construct some great conspiracy around this too?
    Blame the Jews ?

    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.

    Highly unlikely.
    According to some Israeli historians, “the war was over in 6 minutes, not 6 days” –
    Israel destroyed Egypt’s air force on June 5, 1967.

    The Liberty was attacked on June 8, 1967.
    So it’s not likely the attack was a false flag pretending to be Egyptian fliers attacking US, thereby drawing US into war against Egypt.

    Israelis circled the Liberty for hours before they commenced the attack. The main air attack lasted for 90 minutes.

    According to Ernie Gallo, who was there:

    “Israel had complete air superiority over the Sinai” (the Liberty was in the Mediterranean, off the Sinai).

    “Israel overflew 12 times in a four hour period, until around noon. Then, Israel began to strafe at 2:00; they strafed and bombed and dropped napalm canisters port & starboard, machine gunned, 20 mm cannon . . . over 90 minutes . . . wiped out bridge . . .
    Then, torpedo boats materialized, Israel continued to strafe and torpedo . . . one torpedo struck starboard . . .where our communications crew was . . . killing 24 . . . 2 Marines, 1 NSA civilian, rest were sailors.”

    Israel then flew two helicopters with Israeli Marines over the Liberty, apparently intending to rappel to the Liberty, but that plan was scuttled.
    . . .

    “Israelis machine-gunned our life rafts, a violation of Geneva conventions.”

    Not the substance of an “incident.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGLGvmxZuH0

    One (other) possible reason for the attack on the Liberty, according to Gallo, is that Liberty crewmen might have become aware that Israel was killing Egyptian POWs and burying their bodies in the sands in the Sinai.

    A few weeks ago Norman Finkelstein posted a three-way discussion with himself, Phil Weiss and James North.
    Regarding the Liberty incident, Finkelstein said:

    Weiss: The conventional theory is the Liberty had radio surveillance and knocking out the Liberty allowed Israel to continue the war another two days.

    It’s alleged that the Liberty had gotten wind of the fact that Israel was going to seize the Golan, so Israel attacked it. But this theory doesn’t hold up on close inspection.

    [Finkelstein]: My own hypothesis is, this is Israel’s big moment, the climactic of the Jewish people, a collective paroxysm-cum-orgasm. All the armed services want to get a piece of the action. The air force, the army, the navy.

    The navy hadn’t yet seen real combat. As the war was winding down, they were probably anxious to be part of this glorious chapter. To play their part in the Jewish people’s revenge on the goyim.

    Remember, the Israelis don’t just hate Arabs. They’re in an eternal war with all the goyim. All the goyim wanted the Jews dead. Just read Daniel Goldhagen if you have any doubts. The Americans are goyim. They refused entry to Jews fleeing the Holocaust; they didn’t bomb the railway tracks to Auschwitz; they, too, wanted all the Jews dead. Now they’re butting into our war, dispatching a spy ship into our waters, trying to restrain us in our moment of glory. Fuck the Americans! Fuck the goyim! Long live the Jews!

    Besides the Israeli air assault on the USS Liberty, the Israeli navy torpedoed the vessel. It got to share in the mock heroics and avenge the millennial suffering of the Jews. Everyone got their 15 minutes of drawing blood, in memoriam of the Jewish martyrs.

    I am the first to admit gaps in my hypothesis but it probably gets closer to the truth than positing a rational motive.

    North: How was the attack suppressed?

    Raison d’etat. Of course President Johnson knew what happened. But Israel was now the US’s “strategic asset” in the Middle East, so Johnson gave it a pass. http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/

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  205. @ChuckOrloski
    AB,

    I for one find it very strange that the cult-like Hasbara regulars, i.e., Sam "The Sham" Shama, have yet to appear on Mr. Giraldi's latest outing of the ugly truth.

    ChuckOrloski,

    Ca ne va pas la tête, ou quoi ? It’s very strange that people with such low IQ and such high suspicion level (usually in direct correlation) have yet to appear on …. Get a life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    AB,

    Consider this possibility please?

    The words of a patriotic USS Liberty sailor (average IQ) during the attack, and one who early on recognized a Star of David insignia:

    "The Jews are coming... the hasbara Jews are coming!"

    America is at war, AB, but we're deceived as to having an ability to know WHO is the real enemy.

    Upon one's awareness of facts / truth, that's when the work of dark (high IQ) occult forces tend to get exposed.

    Thank you Mr. P. Giraldi for all the "heads up" warnings!

    Selah.
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  206. Yes “incident” doesn’t cover much ground any more than “premeditated attack” gives any clue as what premeditation there was or at what level. But I think peterAUS is on the right track apart from that astonishing agreement that “World War ll was a triumph for the Jews”. Is there any tiny element of truth in that statement except the probability that Zilonist aims to create a Jewish state in Palestine would not have succeeded if there had been no WW2?

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  207. @peterAUS

    Inclusion of Jewish elite as significant players in US Deep State was a long process and involved Jews pushing on a partially open door.
     
    Agree.
    I would actually appreciate you expanding on it.

    Key components of Deep State are militarism; spying/propaganda/media dominance; finance.
    Teddy Roosevelt made militarism an essential part of the US national character (after exhaustion of Civil War); in WWI Wilson created the Committee on Public Information and made propaganda an institutionalized part of US government. Radio then movies became essential components of CPI; Jews wrested control of radio and of Hollywood, and gained US government support/financing to do so.
     
    Agree.
    Now, that “wrested” is a bit tricky word I think. Maybe they were good at it. Division of labour between TWO (or more?) groups UNITED by single goal?
    How about this: one group, dominant at the time (Anglo-Saxons) simply getting on board a group they thought was competent and would always be second? In time the second becoming the first? Maybe there is something in this theory? If yes, then, maybe, blaming Jews would sound almost……hypocritical?
    Just a thought.

    Interesting to construct parallel tracks of USA Deep State ascent/devolution w/ the same re Jewish volk (heh heh).
    Jews long had enormous power & influence in Europe & esp. England; as that power was shifted — quite deliberately — to USA, Jews came with it (while retaining significant influence in the ‘Left Behinds’).
    In USA the Dulles brothers & the spy operations, as well as the propaganda systems, that became institutionalized w/ the wars; plus the banksters, included Jewish operatives at every level.
     
    Maybe.

    WWII was a triumph for Jews, increasing by an order of magnitude their triumph post-WWI & Versailles.
     
    Agree.
    Now, again, was it only Jews or some other parties as well?
    One could even say that Jews earned that by heavy casualties and being smart (Project Manhattan).


    1967 Attack on the Liberty was not the only significant event of that war; Foxbats Over Dimona tells another extremely important part of the story: Russians believed Israel had achieved, or were very, very close to achieving a nuclear breakout; they attempted to do what Israel later achieved in Osirak: Russian Foxbats sought to bomb Dimona, Israel’s nuke facility. They failed.
     
    Let’s not lose focus here. Especially re those Foxbats…….
    Liberty incident.
    I am failing to see, actually, what exactly is the problem here?
    My viewpoint:
    The attack was, most likely, an incident, not a premeditated attack.
    The cover-up was, from politically/strategically expedient reasons at the time, intensive and comprehensive.
    A proper inquiry, in this climate, is impossible.
    The victims should be recognized, by US administration.
    The victims/families should be compensated by both US administration and Israeli government.

    Like:
    26 February 1991: Nine British soldiers of the 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, were killed and further 11 injured after their Warrior armoured vehicles were hit by Maverick missiles fired by two U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft An Oxford inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killings.
    And result:
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-19/news/9202140948_1_air-force-pilots-friendly-fire-deaths-fluorescent-panels
    Some excerpts from the article for lazy ones:

    The jury`s finding in Oxford, England, could result in calls for the pilots` extradition to England and trial for manslaughter.
    But a British Home Office spokesman told The Associated Press that he did not believe British law would sanction criminal action for killings that occurred during a war overseas.
    Anne Leech, whose 20-year-old son was among those killed, said she did not want to see the pilots prosecuted.
    ``We just wanted their version of what happened. To be honest, all we would really like is to know why they did it, that`s all we`ve ever wanted to know,`` she said.
    The pilots were not at the inquest and the Pentagon has refused to release their names, although heavily censored versions of their statements were given to the British government.
    The soldiers` families originally were told their sons died in a night battle. Then they were told the fight occurred in daylight but that blowing sand obscured the pilots` visibility.
     
    Construct some great conspiracy around this too?
    Blame the Jews ?

    See #205

    World War 2 a triumph [sic] for the Jews** [sic]!!!

    You can’t be serious.

    **not “fanatical and single minded Zionists”

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well...don't like "one liners" and personal exchanges, but let's make an exception.
    It could be actually interesting overall.

    Wording.
    Better would've been, probably, "Jews benefited a lot from the result of WW2".
    Semantics. Not my area.

    Now, in more detail.
    State of Israel is just a very small part of it actually.

    Being "untouchable" is much more important.
    Having always the highest moral ground.
    Libraries have been written about this by much smarter people than I am, so really no need for it.

    Now, I don't, personally, blame only Jews for "Holocaust" religion being pushed down our throats.
    My feeling is that it started as Western victors of WW2 wanted to cement their victory and extend it over Soviets........ and it got out of their control, especially after fall of Communism.
    Absolved/absolves victors from war crimes. From naked geopolitics.
    And, when you are one those "good guys" all wars you wage are good.
    All you do is good.
    "We won against Nazis who were gassing Jews. We just keep saving the world in the same vein. We are force of good"
    Remember "Band of brothers"? Episode "Why we fight"?

    Again, really smart people wrote libraries about all that too.
    I am just a simple old ex-military.......

    , @Wizard of Oz
    Just for the record my #205 got tenumbered to #206....
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  208. @Miro23

    Does Robert Caro’s detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Krimm?
     
    I don't know about Robert Caro's book but Philip Nelson's excellent "LBJ from Mastermind to "The Colossus" does deal with Mathilde Krimm:

    P.213 "records showed numerous instances of [Mathilde] passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint. Moreover on the morning of June 5, when Johnson was informed at 4:30 a.m. that Israel had attacked Egypt, the first person he told about it was Mathilde Krimm, going to her White House bedroom to inform her that 'The war had started'".

    And on the same page;

    As demonstrated through the last several chapters, it is indisputable that, by 1967, Lyndon Johnson had surrounded himself with ardent and strident, Jewish and non-Jewish, militant Zionists, people who had worked for decades to first establish the nation of Israel and then for two more decades to expand its borders. As will be demonstrated shortly, this was done in such a way that evidence was left that reflected months of planning. The Six Day War was not spontaneous, or randomly started by either side - it had been planned for months, as a joint effort between the CIA and the Israeli Mossad. The precept of "need to know" strictly limited the knowledge of most presidential advisers and others in the executive branch, except for Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara.

    Moreover, such other people as George Ball and Dean Rusk, and therefore the State Department, were not "in the loop" in this planning. The weight of the evidence indicates that a plan was executed according to a long-scheduled, sophisticated operation that had been prepared from the start within the White House to make it appear that Israel had been the victim of a surprise attack by its Arab neighbors.

    "All during the six days of carnage that Israel inflicted on its neighbors."

    Interesting that none of that gives any support to a view of the USS Linerty attack being anything other than an irritating and potentially embarrassing stuff up from LBJ’s point of view.

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  209. @Sparkon
    Good lead. Thank you.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vPFItqwZK5o/maxresdefault.jpg

    President Johnson, an apparently energetic philanderer given the number and notoriety of his sexual exploits, was in Texas until June 1 when he returned with his "friend" Mathilde Krim who remained at the White House with Johnson for the next week. When Johnson, who was absolutely dazzled by Mathilde's blonde beauty and intelligence, was informed of the beginning of the war on the morning of June 5. The very first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Official records indicate that Mathilde passed documents from Israel directly to Johnson over the duration of the crisis. Johnson didn't meet with his advisors, except Walt Rostow, nor any Israeli or Arab officials during the duration of the very short war, he knew exactly what was going on with the Israelis due to his intimate relationship with Mathilde Krim.
     
    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/spingola/100604#ref1

    “Official records”. Primary evidence citations please.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    Do you know how to use footnotes? If so, please follow the link I gave in my #116 under the paragraph where you are asking for sources. Please see footnote [11] pointing to the source document, and remarks by Dr. William Quandt, which confirm everything in the paragraph I quoted here from Ms. Spingola.

    To make it as easy as possible for you, I have included a direct link, below, to this document, and a relevant excerpt here:

    [11] 40 Years after the 1967 War: The Impact of a Prolonged Occupation by Jan de Jong, Dr. Edmund Ghareeb, Herbert Kelman, Ambassador Afif Safieh, Dr. William Quandt, Alvaro de Soto, The Palestine Center, Washington, DC, 2007, pp. 10-11

    Dr. Quandt joined the Department of Politics at the University of Virginia and he holds the Edward Stettinius chair there. He started in 1994 and he has served as an academic in a number of universities and institutions, think tanks in the United States, including Brookings and Rand Corporation and he also served with the National Security Council. He has written extensively on this issue and was involved with the 1978 Camp David Accords. He is the author of many books...
     
    Dr. Quandt:

    I was not in government at the time. I didn’t begin my own service in government until five years later.

    I had the chance at various times to look at all the publicly available documents as well as some of those that have not yet been released.
    [...]
    The last days of May were very puzzling and complex. Johnson left town for his Texas ranch on 27 May, right as the crisis was getting very, very tense indeed. He took none of his foreign policy advisors with him. Instead, he was surrounded by his family and friends, including Democratic party money man and his Texas neighbor, Arthur Krim, and his wife Mathilde with whom Johnson seemed to have, what we might now politely call, a very close personal relationship. Mathilde was also a convert to Judaism who had worked as a secret agent for the Irgun right after World War II and had helped to smuggle guns from Europe to the Irgun underground. She later married movie mogul Arthur Krim and retained a vivid interest in the Middle East. The files actually show numerous instances of her passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint.
    [...]
    Johnson did not return to Washington until 1 June in the company, incidentally, of Mrs. Krim, who then stayed on at the White House as his guest for the next week.
    [...]
    News of the beginning of the war reached LBJ early in the morning on 5 June. He did not seem to be surprised. The first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Johnson was a complex man; he did not share the views of some of his aides that Israel’s military victory was a cause for celebration. At a meeting on 7 June when the magnitude of Israel’s victory was already apparent and some of the aides were, in fact, rather happy and enthusiastic, Johnson said that he was not so sure that we were out of our troubles...
     
    http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/40-Years-after-the-1967-War-The-Impact-of-a-Prolonged-Occupation.pdf
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  210. @Sparkon
    Philip Giraldi's fine article is about the treacherous and murderous Israeli attack on the U.S.S Liberty, and not about 9/11, which Phil didn't mention here.

    Nevertheless, Mr. Giraldi's article has attracted the attention of some 9/11 anti-truthers and falsifiers, who are working hard to distract attention away from the Liberty Incident by trotting out some of the same ol' same ol' about sagging columns at the WTC.

    (One might well think these two operations are joined at the hip -- or is it the anus? -- Same a-holes, different doo doo.)

    However, there is no evidence that any of the fires in any of the WTC structures attained the sustained high temperatures necessary to weaken steel:

    The problems with NIST’s explanation continue in step four, where high temperatures were said to have softened the columns and floors. NIST did tests for this as well, but then abandoned the results. The first test, which examined paint deformation on steel samples chosen specifically from the fire zones, showed that less than 2% of the samples had seen temperatures above 250 °C. Another test gave the one-sided result that no samples saw temperatures above 600 °C. The obvious problem was that steel does not soften or lose significant strength at the low temperatures indicated, yet NIST’s story depends on the softening or weakening of vast quantities of structural steel.

     

    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/09/07/why-the-nist-report-on-the-world-trade-center-towers-is-false/

    From a survivor of the Liberty Incident, Phil Tourney:

    Anyone who doubts the sinister nature of this attack by a purported ally need only remember that, prior to the Six-Day Land Grab (a provocation that set in motion all that has followed since in the region), Lyndon Johnson was “befriended” by Arthur and Mathilde Krim. Arthur, president of United Artists, was chair of the campaign finance committee for the Democrats, a party then headed by LBJ. Krim acquired property near the LBJ Ranch in Texas where he built “Mathilde’s House” where she commenced a long-running affair with our Commander-in-Chief.

    On the night that the 1967 “war” commenced...Mathilde was having a “sleepover” in the White House. Mathilde was previously married to an Irgun terrorist and became an Irgun operative. The Irgun, led by Menachem Begin, arranged for the bombing of the King David Hotel, leaving 91 dead. Mathilde, a convert to Judaism, struck up an exquisitely well-timed affair with a U.S. president in the lead-up to this provocation. Irgun became the Likud Party of Sharon and Netanyahu.
     
    https://truthscooper.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/was-lbj-shacked-up-with-a-pretty-zionist-when-israel-attacked-the-uss-liberty/

    https://truthscooper.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/lbj-jewess.jpg

    Ms. Galland (Krim) reportedly was so disturbed by Tales of the Holocaust, that she became a Jewess converted to Judaism:

    Scientist and AIDS activist Mathilde Krim was born in Como, Italy on this date in 1926. She converted to Judaism in the late 1940s, motivated by her passion about the Holocaust and her encounters at the University of Geneva with Palestinian Jewish gun-runners,
     
    http://jewishcurrents.org/july-9-mathilde-krim/

    “Irgun operative”? Evidence that she did more than facilitate Irgun arms purchases in some way before she had been to Palestine or converted to Judaism?

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  211. @anonymous

    The irony.
     
    nah

    not irony.

    a point of origin

    a beginning point

    rather, the second or maybe third or fourth point from the beginning of Israeli subversion of US politics/government into Israel's bitch

    Eisenhower forced Israel to back down from its scheme to invade Egypt
    Israel marking time
    simmering


    betimes, Israelis steals uranium from USA
    Israel builds nuclear bombs
    then Israelis cheated when JFK demanded to inspect Israeli nuke facilities
    then JFK demanded that Israel register its foreign agents
    all of these unconscionable demands on poor wittle persecuted Israel were too much for the fledgling state
    JFK got offed
    Matilda "Esther" Krim and hubby Mordechai attach short reins to a willing LBJ
    THEN the deep state begins digging in - -- -

    Sloppy slanders aren’t very effective. Mathilde (not Matilda) Krim’s husband was the important Democrat Arthur Krim. Where does your “Mordechai” come from.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Sloppy slanders aren’t very effective. Mathilde (not Matilda) Krim’s husband was the important Democrat Arthur Krim. Where does your “Mordechai” come from.

    Current day Esther and Mordechai --- Javanka!

    Think Peace --- Art
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  212. @Miro23

    Does Robert Caro’s detailed biography of LBJ ever deal with Ms Ester Krimm?
     
    I don't know about Robert Caro's book but Philip Nelson's excellent "LBJ from Mastermind to "The Colossus" does deal with Mathilde Krimm:

    P.213 "records showed numerous instances of [Mathilde] passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint. Moreover on the morning of June 5, when Johnson was informed at 4:30 a.m. that Israel had attacked Egypt, the first person he told about it was Mathilde Krimm, going to her White House bedroom to inform her that 'The war had started'".

    And on the same page;

    As demonstrated through the last several chapters, it is indisputable that, by 1967, Lyndon Johnson had surrounded himself with ardent and strident, Jewish and non-Jewish, militant Zionists, people who had worked for decades to first establish the nation of Israel and then for two more decades to expand its borders. As will be demonstrated shortly, this was done in such a way that evidence was left that reflected months of planning. The Six Day War was not spontaneous, or randomly started by either side - it had been planned for months, as a joint effort between the CIA and the Israeli Mossad. The precept of "need to know" strictly limited the knowledge of most presidential advisers and others in the executive branch, except for Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara.

    Moreover, such other people as George Ball and Dean Rusk, and therefore the State Department, were not "in the loop" in this planning. The weight of the evidence indicates that a plan was executed according to a long-scheduled, sophisticated operation that had been prepared from the start within the White House to make it appear that Israel had been the victim of a surprise attack by its Arab neighbors.

    "All during the six days of carnage that Israel inflicted on its neighbors."

    I hadn’t heard of Mathilde Krim but, looking her up it is obvious that there were plenty òf good reasons why she might be a guest at the White House without any necessity to suppose she was having it off with LBJ. I note that your “excellent” source doesn’t bother to spell her name correctly – or is that just your introduced error?

    It doesn’t take much thought to explain why LBJ wouldn’t have wanted a big beat up on Israel at the point where it had established itself as militarily dominant in the ME and the US was stuck in Vietnam. You don’t need Mathilde at all.

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  213. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    See #205

    World War 2 a triumph [sic] for the Jews** [sic]!!!

    You can't be serious.

    **not "fanatical and single minded Zionists"

    Well…don’t like “one liners” and personal exchanges, but let’s make an exception.
    It could be actually interesting overall.

    Wording.
    Better would’ve been, probably, “Jews benefited a lot from the result of WW2″.
    Semantics. Not my area.

    Now, in more detail.
    State of Israel is just a very small part of it actually.

    Being “untouchable” is much more important.
    Having always the highest moral ground.
    Libraries have been written about this by much smarter people than I am, so really no need for it.

    Now, I don’t, personally, blame only Jews for “Holocaust” religion being pushed down our throats.
    My feeling is that it started as Western victors of WW2 wanted to cement their victory and extend it over Soviets…….. and it got out of their control, especially after fall of Communism.
    Absolved/absolves victors from war crimes. From naked geopolitics.
    And, when you are one those “good guys” all wars you wage are good.
    All you do is good.
    “We won against Nazis who were gassing Jews. We just keep saving the world in the same vein. We are force of good”
    Remember “Band of brothers”? Episode “Why we fight”?

    Again, really smart people wrote libraries about all that too.
    I am just a simple old ex-military…….

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  214. This “Congressional” inquiry will be absolutely pointless (now). Decades too late. The guilty and culpable long dead or gone or whatever. So this isn’t about justice and never can be (now). It’s about something else (you decide). The outcome is already determined (same as always). Nothing will be done. Nobody will be held accountable. So this is, as always, just another stupid circus in the circus tent that is Amerika.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "This “Congressional” inquiry will be absolutely pointless (now)"
    Disagree. The greater the exposure of the occupation of the US Congress by Israel-firsters, the better for the world at large.
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  215. @Wizard of Oz
    See #205

    World War 2 a triumph [sic] for the Jews** [sic]!!!

    You can't be serious.

    **not "fanatical and single minded Zionists"

    Just for the record my #205 got tenumbered to #206….

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  216. I have just found the Comment from Vdndetta that I referred to earlier. It quotes one Stuart Slade at length.

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Vendetta

    September 17, 2016 at 7:59 pm GMT

    I think that was replied to by Ron Unz in a way that I took to be affectionately insulting….

    Anyway it would be good to have PG engage in detail with such a detailed version since it is unlikely that Congress will.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well, I've gone through Slade's material and Vdnetta's posts related to this topic.

    Long story short, assuming those facts are correct, I agree with Slade (and, consequently, with Vdnetta).

    Points I found interesting are (excerpts, one by one; bold parts are mine):

    At the time, she was operating under orders from the US Sixth Fleet to stay “outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said.” This is where the first error of judgement took place. Her handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt’s territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles from Port Said.

    The United States never approved the appointment of a liaison officer, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty’s arrival in the area

    At eleven o’clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board.

    the Israelis back then made a big thing out of their contempt for the routines, practices and doctrines employed by more established armed forces. In fact, they derided such practices as being typical of hidebound reactionaries; the Israeli Military Forces didn’t need all that nonsense about correct procedure.

    Ensign Aharon Yifrah, combat information officer aboard the flagship of these torpedo boats miscalculated their target’s speed as 30 knots, not realizing sea conditions had slowed his real speed to around 25. Again we have the sloppy attitude of the Israeli Armed Forces entering the picture

    Israeli naval commanders called up the air force and asked for help from whatever was available. What was available were two Mirages returning from a bombing strike, they were armed only with 30 millimeter cannons and air-to-air missiles and were very short on fuel. Had this been a deliberate attack they would have carried a warload better suited for attacking a ship.

    these were pilots who were not trained for maritime operations

    Minutes later came a second group of planes, Super-Mysteres, equally ill-suited for a naval engagement. They had been diverted from a strike against Egyptian infantry positions and carried napalm (but had been diverted going out, not coming back so had a decent fuel reserve).

    The Israeli communications system in 1967 was basically WW2 equipment that had been overhauled and modernized. It was already overloaded with running a fast-moving mobile war and , thanks to a breakdown in that communications system, the message to the Navy was caught in a backlog of calls waiting to go out

    the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment.

    Flag is at the stern, the ship is heading away from the FAC that are chasing her from astern.

    a range of 4 to 8 miles from a 60 ton speedboat bouncing around in a cloud of spray while being shaken to pieces by two 4,000 shaft horsepower diesels running flat out.

    One of the American sailors on board, disregarded Captain McGonagle’s order not to fire on the approaching craft, and opened up with a deck gun.

    telling the difference between dirty silver and shiny gray is very hard – especially since both would have taken on a blue tinge by reflection from the surrounding sea and sky

    he wasn’t trying to find out “which ship is this” he was looking for “which Egyptian Ship looks most like the one in front of me”

    When they reached the bows, the captain of one boat saw “GTR-5″ on the hull. He immediately halted fire, extended help to the Liberty, and called for rescue helicopters.
     
    Again, let's not get lost sight of the real issue while focusing on details.

    The very fact that we are yammering here (with thousands of other people all over Internet and publishing) is so wrong it boggles the mind.
    We are talking about US Government here.
    United States of America..........

    It should have had proper inquiry, produced a detailed report and published it.
    Also the recognition, compensations, responsibilities with consequences, even punishments.
    Israel too.

    This place is not proper to seriously discuss the issue, really.
    It demands proper sources, resources, methodology....the works.

    In fact, writing about this here feels not only inadequate but, really, demeaning for all involved in the case.

    Proper inquiry is required.
    And it is impossible in current (geo)political and US/Israel current political climate.

    Surreal.
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  217. Paul C. says:
    @Rurik

    the Fed and it’s sleazy Israel Firsters are resisting an audit.
     
    an audit would reveal a crime so monstrous that it would rival The Crucifixion, and indeed, be of Biblical gravity in its reverberations

    It’s much worse than I thought. Not only do the psychopathic Talmudic bankers control the Fed and all Central banks throughout the world, but via Kabbalah inspired Freemasonry, they control everything in nearly all societies. In the US, we’re essentially all slaves as a result of the 14th amendment, which makes everyone a “US Citizen”. The “United States” is a federal corporation. All federal agencies, all courthouses, all foreign governments are all corporations. We’re citizens of a corporation, essentially chattel, without any real rights, just privileges. We own nothing. Even if you pay off your house, it can be taken from you if you don’t pay the property tax. Everything is based on Admiralty law (Maritime law, law of the sea).

    Research “Strawman”. There is a way out and that’s to renounce US Citizenship and go back to being an American National, with Common Law rights. This puts us in the “creditor” role, so the banks can’t seize our property, such as in a foreclosure. And incrementally “the people” can take back their government and begin to dismantle the current banking system.

    It’s a rabbit hole, but Ken Scott Cousens is a good place to start.

    [MORE]

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  218. Sparkon says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    "Official records". Primary evidence citations please.

    Do you know how to use footnotes? If so, please follow the link I gave in my #116 under the paragraph where you are asking for sources. Please see footnote [11] pointing to the source document, and remarks by Dr. William Quandt, which confirm everything in the paragraph I quoted here from Ms. Spingola.

    To make it as easy as possible for you, I have included a direct link, below, to this document, and a relevant excerpt here:

    [11] 40 Years after the 1967 War: The Impact of a Prolonged Occupation by Jan de Jong, Dr. Edmund Ghareeb, Herbert Kelman, Ambassador Afif Safieh, Dr. William Quandt, Alvaro de Soto, The Palestine Center, Washington, DC, 2007, pp. 10-11

    Dr. Quandt joined the Department of Politics at the University of Virginia and he holds the Edward Stettinius chair there. He started in 1994 and he has served as an academic in a number of universities and institutions, think tanks in the United States, including Brookings and Rand Corporation and he also served with the National Security Council. He has written extensively on this issue and was involved with the 1978 Camp David Accords. He is the author of many books…

    Dr. Quandt:

    I was not in government at the time. I didn’t begin my own service in government until five years later.

    I had the chance at various times to look at all the publicly available documents as well as some of those that have not yet been released.
    [...]
    The last days of May were very puzzling and complex. Johnson left town for his Texas ranch on 27 May, right as the crisis was getting very, very tense indeed. He took none of his foreign policy advisors with him. Instead, he was surrounded by his family and friends, including Democratic party money man and his Texas neighbor, Arthur Krim, and his wife Mathilde with whom Johnson seemed to have, what we might now politely call, a very close personal relationship. Mathilde was also a convert to Judaism who had worked as a secret agent for the Irgun right after World War II and had helped to smuggle guns from Europe to the Irgun underground. She later married movie mogul Arthur Krim and retained a vivid interest in the Middle East. The files actually show numerous instances of her passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint.
    [...]
    Johnson did not return to Washington until 1 June in the company, incidentally, of Mrs. Krim, who then stayed on at the White House as his guest for the next week.
    [...]
    News of the beginning of the war reached LBJ early in the morning on 5 June. He did not seem to be surprised. The first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Johnson was a complex man; he did not share the views of some of his aides that Israel’s military victory was a cause for celebration. At a meeting on 7 June when the magnitude of Israel’s victory was already apparent and some of the aides were, in fact, rather happy and enthusiastic, Johnson said that he was not so sure that we were out of our troubles

    http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/40-Years-after-the-1967-War-The-Impact-of-a-Prolonged-Occupation.pdf

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    • Replies: @Sparkon
    Israel has never had a more willing sycophant and eager butt-kisser than Lyndon Johnson, but now that his beloved Israel had crushed the Arab armies and air forces, why would LBJ be worried on June 7th?

    Was it because he knew the Liberty would be attacked on June 8th?

    What might the generals have had up their sleeves, had the Liberty gone down with all hands?

    By keeping their ship afloat, the valiant crew of the U.S.S. Liberty defeated treacherous and perfidious Israel, and the devious machinations of American traitors like LBJ, by achieving one of the greatest naval victories of all time.

    Betrayed by their own leaders, the USN heroes of the Liberty nevertheless prevented a successful false flag attack on their ship that might have been blamed on some scapegoat nation as justification for US military action.

    There are no greater American heroes than the crew of the U.S.S. Liberty.

    Certainly, nobody with any knowledge of military affairs has ever accepted Israel's pathetic excuse of mistaken identity, but then, everyone knows we're dealing with The World's Biggest Liars.

    Amazingly, for as much practice as they've had, they're not very good at it, relying mostly on Chutzpah.

    Oy vey! If it weren't so tragic, it'd be funny.


    But internal White House documents obtained from the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library show that the Israelis' explanation of how the mistake had occurred was not believed.

    Except for McNamara, most senior administration officials from Secretary of State Dean Rusk on down privately agreed with Johnson's intelligence adviser, Clark Clifford, who was quoted in minutes of a National Security Council staff meeting as saying it was "inconceivable" that the attack had been a case of mistaken identity.

    The attack "couldn't be anything else but deliberate," the NSA's director, Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter, later told Congress.

    "I don't think you'll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental," Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director, said in an interview.

     

    New revelations in attack on Navy spy ship
    John Crewdson, Chicago Tribune, Oct. 2, 2007
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  219. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I have just found the Comment from Vdndetta that I referred to earlier. It quotes one Stuart Slade at length.

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Vendetta

    September 17, 2016 at 7:59 pm GMT

    I think that was replied to by Ron Unz in a way that I took to be affectionately insulting....

    Anyway it would be good to have PG engage in detail with such a detailed version since it is unlikely that Congress will.

    Well, I’ve gone through Slade’s material and Vdnetta’s posts related to this topic.

    Long story short, assuming those facts are correct, I agree with Slade (and, consequently, with Vdnetta).

    Points I found interesting are (excerpts, one by one; bold parts are mine):

    At the time, she was operating under orders from the US Sixth Fleet to stay “outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said.” This is where the first error of judgement took place. Her handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt’s territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles from Port Said.

    The United States never approved the appointment of a liaison officer, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty’s arrival in the area

    At eleven o’clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board.

    the Israelis back then made a big thing out of their contempt for the routines, practices and doctrines employed by more established armed forces. In fact, they derided such practices as being typical of hidebound reactionaries; the Israeli Military Forces didn’t need all that nonsense about correct procedure.

    Ensign Aharon Yifrah, combat information officer aboard the flagship of these torpedo boats miscalculated their target’s speed as 30 knots, not realizing sea conditions had slowed his real speed to around 25. Again we have the sloppy attitude of the Israeli Armed Forces entering the picture

    Israeli naval commanders called up the air force and asked for help from whatever was available. What was available were two Mirages returning from a bombing strike, they were armed only with 30 millimeter cannons and air-to-air missiles and were very short on fuel. Had this been a deliberate attack they would have carried a warload better suited for attacking a ship.

    these were pilots who were not trained for maritime operations

    Minutes later came a second group of planes, Super-Mysteres, equally ill-suited for a naval engagement. They had been diverted from a strike against Egyptian infantry positions and carried napalm (but had been diverted going out, not coming back so had a decent fuel reserve).

    The Israeli communications system in 1967 was basically WW2 equipment that had been overhauled and modernized. It was already overloaded with running a fast-moving mobile war and , thanks to a breakdown in that communications system, the message to the Navy was caught in a backlog of calls waiting to go out

    the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment.

    Flag is at the stern, the ship is heading away from the FAC that are chasing her from astern.

    a range of 4 to 8 miles from a 60 ton speedboat bouncing around in a cloud of spray while being shaken to pieces by two 4,000 shaft horsepower diesels running flat out.

    One of the American sailors on board, disregarded Captain McGonagle’s order not to fire on the approaching craft, and opened up with a deck gun.

    telling the difference between dirty silver and shiny gray is very hard – especially since both would have taken on a blue tinge by reflection from the surrounding sea and sky

    he wasn’t trying to find out “which ship is this” he was looking for “which Egyptian Ship looks most like the one in front of me”

    When they reached the bows, the captain of one boat saw “GTR-5″ on the hull. He immediately halted fire, extended help to the Liberty, and called for rescue helicopters.

    Again, let’s not get lost sight of the real issue while focusing on details.

    The very fact that we are yammering here (with thousands of other people all over Internet and publishing) is so wrong it boggles the mind.
    We are talking about US Government here.
    United States of America……….

    It should have had proper inquiry, produced a detailed report and published it.
    Also the recognition, compensations, responsibilities with consequences, even punishments.
    Israel too.

    This place is not proper to seriously discuss the issue, really.
    It demands proper sources, resources, methodology….the works.

    In fact, writing about this here feels not only inadequate but, really, demeaning for all involved in the case.

    Proper inquiry is required.
    And it is impossible in current (geo)political and US/Israel current political climate.

    Surreal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Proper inquiry is required.

    Yes, a Senate Select Committee to investigate the USS Liberty incident. Co-chaired by Sen. McCain and Graham with lead minority member Sen. Cardin.
    , @Joe Stalin
    "the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment. "

    First time I've heard that. A ship designed for radio-electronic combat would have numerous and powerful RF transmitters and directional antennas separate from those used for signal intelligence gathering. In short, such transmitters would be a detriment to the NSA vessel's primary mission of picking up low-level HF/VHF/UHF signals due to front-end desensitization. The primary receivers back in 1967 would probably be Nems-Clarke/ Watkins-Johnsons. ( http://watkins-johnson.terryo.org/history/Nems-Clarke-history.htm ) I'm not sure what kind of ECCM is even possible from the standpoint of deliberate jamming of US Navy communications frequencies, which has been confirmed by GTR-5 personnel. Jamming of an HF communications link is pretty simple, especially if you have a tunable transmitter and some sort of modulation device.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks for strengthening Commonsense Corner. But, in the absence of a proper public inquiry it wluld be good to have Philip Giraldi firm up his authority and credibility by giving his assessment of that material. (After all most UR readers must want to be able to respect any opinion expressed by its regular contributors like PG, SS and JD).
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  220. JGarbo says:
    @chris
    That's great news, Phil !

    Lets see who and how they're going to pull the wool over everyone's eyes again. There certainly won't be a lack of volunteers to try to block any investigation; after all that's what they've all been groomed for, but it will be interesting to watch. AIPAC is probably right now meeting with Graham, Cruz, and Rubio to pick a volunteer for their mission of treason - it will be their finest hour !

    No new investigation. Legion labeled fanatics, Russian dupes, etc. The Israel Lobby is as powerful as the oil supplies in ME. No more oil, no more Israel. Palestine will belatedly be recognized and “asked” to share its petro-wealth in the Med with US benefactor. Israelis know their place – assets of CIA – expendables.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Israelis know their place..."
    If only. The US government has been heavily penetrated by Israel-firsters who have been using the US resources for their pleasure, namely, for propping up the tribal toy in the Middle East.
    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=dalck_feith_1
    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=richard_perle
    The ongoing mass slaughter in the Middle East is the result of the implementation of Clean Break project (Oded Yinon plan for Greater Israel). Israel has been financing and supporting radical jihadis in the Middle East and Israel continues attacking Syrian sovereignty even after their proteges, ISIS, received a mortal blow from the Syrian army: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811226
    The Jews' tribal hatred towards a much older, nobler and richer civilization of Iran (as compared to Judaism which borrowed heavily from other cultures) pushes the western world toward a major war with the Middle East and Russia. Israel-firsters are not rational and they are not reasonable. They are fanatics. Israel in its present form is an insult to the memory of Holocaust: "Who’s Afraid of Ayelet Shaked? Meet the Secular Jewish Nationalist Who Could Be Israel’s Prime Minister." This Ayelet Shaked who demanded, "Mothers of all Palestinians must be killed." Sounds as Nazism. Israel is indeed a Jewish twin of Nazism. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811185
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/mothers-of-all-palestinians-must-be-killed-israeli-mp/comment-page-1/
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  221. @AB_Anonymous
    ChuckOrloski,

    Ca ne va pas la tête, ou quoi ? It's very strange that people with such low IQ and such high suspicion level (usually in direct correlation) have yet to appear on .... Get a life.

    AB,

    Consider this possibility please?

    The words of a patriotic USS Liberty sailor (average IQ) during the attack, and one who early on recognized a Star of David insignia:

    “The Jews are coming… the hasbara Jews are coming!”

    America is at war, AB, but we’re deceived as to having an ability to know WHO is the real enemy.

    Upon one’s awareness of facts / truth, that’s when the work of dark (high IQ) occult forces tend to get exposed.

    Thank you Mr. P. Giraldi for all the “heads up” warnings!

    Selah.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
    You got it all confused. “Dark occult forces” can be exposed from the very beginning based on the date of event, its location(s) and/or coordinates, the names of objects or people pertaining to it, digital description(s) as a whole and by parts, etc. The proven presence of occult (i.e., a proven beyond any doubts presence of digital alignment) excludes the accidental nature of that event. And this is already a lot. As for “Selah” - according to Wikipedia nobody knows what it is (perhaps you do ?!), but one of its 3 numeric explanations has everything to do with this case.
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  222. annamaria says:
    @Ringleader
    This "Congressional" inquiry will be absolutely pointless (now). Decades too late. The guilty and culpable long dead or gone or whatever. So this isn't about justice and never can be (now). It's about something else (you decide). The outcome is already determined (same as always). Nothing will be done. Nobody will be held accountable. So this is, as always, just another stupid circus in the circus tent that is Amerika.

    “This “Congressional” inquiry will be absolutely pointless (now)”
    Disagree. The greater the exposure of the occupation of the US Congress by Israel-firsters, the better for the world at large.

    Read More
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  223. annamaria says:
    @JGarbo
    No new investigation. Legion labeled fanatics, Russian dupes, etc. The Israel Lobby is as powerful as the oil supplies in ME. No more oil, no more Israel. Palestine will belatedly be recognized and "asked" to share its petro-wealth in the Med with US benefactor. Israelis know their place - assets of CIA - expendables.

    Israelis know their place…”
    If only. The US government has been heavily penetrated by Israel-firsters who have been using the US resources for their pleasure, namely, for propping up the tribal toy in the Middle East.

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=dalck_feith_1

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=richard_perle

    The ongoing mass slaughter in the Middle East is the result of the implementation of Clean Break project (Oded Yinon plan for Greater Israel). Israel has been financing and supporting radical jihadis in the Middle East and Israel continues attacking Syrian sovereignty even after their proteges, ISIS, received a mortal blow from the Syrian army: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811226
    The Jews’ tribal hatred towards a much older, nobler and richer civilization of Iran (as compared to Judaism which borrowed heavily from other cultures) pushes the western world toward a major war with the Middle East and Russia. Israel-firsters are not rational and they are not reasonable. They are fanatics. Israel in its present form is an insult to the memory of Holocaust: “Who’s Afraid of Ayelet Shaked? Meet the Secular Jewish Nationalist Who Could Be Israel’s Prime Minister.” This Ayelet Shaked who demanded, “Mothers of all Palestinians must be killed.” Sounds as Nazism. Israel is indeed a Jewish twin of Nazism. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811185

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/mothers-of-all-palestinians-must-be-killed-israeli-mp/comment-page-1/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Isn't it a bit silly to talk of "Jews' tribal hatred towards a much older, nobler, richer civilization" when the ancient, noble and rich civilization(s) and culture(s) were destroyed by Muslim and Mongol invaders? It reminds me of cant about Australian Aborigines having the oldest continuous living culture which, apart from ignoring the pygmies and Khoi San who didn't leave Africa, implies rather insultingly that they learned nothing much in 50,000 years which included travels along the tropical coasta of South Asia. And how many Jews do you know who take seriously as history the myths of the Hebrew Bible?
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  224. deltajent says:
    @wayfarer
    Issuing a correction to the previous post.

    question: Why is Israel the world's most privileged child?
    answer: It seems to be more than simply having too much money, quite possibly the self-serving child has traded its eternal soul for so many temporal carnal privileges.

    Nations/governments/states are legal fictions and do not have souls–only individuals do. Individuals will be judged and receive their eternal rewards on the great Judgment Day based on their actions and the grace of God. The coercive collectives known as governments will prosper or wither in this world according to the actions of those individuals who control them. Their “citizens” (unwilling tax slaves) will prosper or suffer accordingly.

    Read More
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  225. iffen says:
    @peterAUS
    Well, I've gone through Slade's material and Vdnetta's posts related to this topic.

    Long story short, assuming those facts are correct, I agree with Slade (and, consequently, with Vdnetta).

    Points I found interesting are (excerpts, one by one; bold parts are mine):

    At the time, she was operating under orders from the US Sixth Fleet to stay “outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said.” This is where the first error of judgement took place. Her handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt’s territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles from Port Said.

    The United States never approved the appointment of a liaison officer, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty’s arrival in the area

    At eleven o’clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board.

    the Israelis back then made a big thing out of their contempt for the routines, practices and doctrines employed by more established armed forces. In fact, they derided such practices as being typical of hidebound reactionaries; the Israeli Military Forces didn’t need all that nonsense about correct procedure.

    Ensign Aharon Yifrah, combat information officer aboard the flagship of these torpedo boats miscalculated their target’s speed as 30 knots, not realizing sea conditions had slowed his real speed to around 25. Again we have the sloppy attitude of the Israeli Armed Forces entering the picture

    Israeli naval commanders called up the air force and asked for help from whatever was available. What was available were two Mirages returning from a bombing strike, they were armed only with 30 millimeter cannons and air-to-air missiles and were very short on fuel. Had this been a deliberate attack they would have carried a warload better suited for attacking a ship.

    these were pilots who were not trained for maritime operations

    Minutes later came a second group of planes, Super-Mysteres, equally ill-suited for a naval engagement. They had been diverted from a strike against Egyptian infantry positions and carried napalm (but had been diverted going out, not coming back so had a decent fuel reserve).

    The Israeli communications system in 1967 was basically WW2 equipment that had been overhauled and modernized. It was already overloaded with running a fast-moving mobile war and , thanks to a breakdown in that communications system, the message to the Navy was caught in a backlog of calls waiting to go out

    the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment.

    Flag is at the stern, the ship is heading away from the FAC that are chasing her from astern.

    a range of 4 to 8 miles from a 60 ton speedboat bouncing around in a cloud of spray while being shaken to pieces by two 4,000 shaft horsepower diesels running flat out.

    One of the American sailors on board, disregarded Captain McGonagle’s order not to fire on the approaching craft, and opened up with a deck gun.

    telling the difference between dirty silver and shiny gray is very hard – especially since both would have taken on a blue tinge by reflection from the surrounding sea and sky

    he wasn’t trying to find out “which ship is this” he was looking for “which Egyptian Ship looks most like the one in front of me”

    When they reached the bows, the captain of one boat saw “GTR-5″ on the hull. He immediately halted fire, extended help to the Liberty, and called for rescue helicopters.
     
    Again, let's not get lost sight of the real issue while focusing on details.

    The very fact that we are yammering here (with thousands of other people all over Internet and publishing) is so wrong it boggles the mind.
    We are talking about US Government here.
    United States of America..........

    It should have had proper inquiry, produced a detailed report and published it.
    Also the recognition, compensations, responsibilities with consequences, even punishments.
    Israel too.

    This place is not proper to seriously discuss the issue, really.
    It demands proper sources, resources, methodology....the works.

    In fact, writing about this here feels not only inadequate but, really, demeaning for all involved in the case.

    Proper inquiry is required.
    And it is impossible in current (geo)political and US/Israel current political climate.

    Surreal.

    Proper inquiry is required.

    Yes, a Senate Select Committee to investigate the USS Liberty incident. Co-chaired by Sen. McCain and Graham with lead minority member Sen. Cardin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    This is an Iffen-dream committee to stall the investigation in order to protect the sensibilities of the Lobby. The prominence of Tokyo-Rose McCain can't be overlooked.
    Meanwhile, there is finally a really reasonable solution to the Syrian crisis (considering that Israel continues bombing the sovereign state of Syria AFTER the defeat of ISIS, to compensate for the ISIS' "problems")
    Comment section: "We need to send all Syrian refugees to Israel. Also, all of the African economic migrants..." http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/israel-launches-air-strikes-syria-and-assads-waiting-game
    This very reasonable solution would bring the dear "moderate" jihadis directly to their most dedicated protectors, healers, and arms-dealers.
    Your zoicon geniuses broke it, now they own it.
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  226. Vonu says:

    Maybe if it works for the USS Liberty, it might work for the JFK assassination.

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  227. annamaria says:
    @iffen
    Proper inquiry is required.

    Yes, a Senate Select Committee to investigate the USS Liberty incident. Co-chaired by Sen. McCain and Graham with lead minority member Sen. Cardin.

    This is an Iffen-dream committee to stall the investigation in order to protect the sensibilities of the Lobby. The prominence of Tokyo-Rose McCain can’t be overlooked.
    Meanwhile, there is finally a really reasonable solution to the Syrian crisis (considering that Israel continues bombing the sovereign state of Syria AFTER the defeat of ISIS, to compensate for the ISIS’ “problems”)
    Comment section: “We need to send all Syrian refugees to Israel. Also, all of the African economic migrants…” http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/israel-launches-air-strikes-syria-and-assads-waiting-game
    This very reasonable solution would bring the dear “moderate” jihadis directly to their most dedicated protectors, healers, and arms-dealers.
    Your zoicon geniuses broke it, now they own it.

    Read More
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  228. lou e says:

    RE, the Liberty “incident” when you sign up for the wermacht oops I mean USSA armed forces sometimes your orders come from scum running agendas having nothing to do with defending the USSA. I would suggest a perusal of The Secret War Against the Jews by John Loftus and Mark Aarons. If the Izzies wanted to sink that ship it would have been gone in the first pass. What it was doing is what the political prostitutes cannot afford to reveal

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  229. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Sloppy slanders aren't very effective. Mathilde (not Matilda) Krim's husband was the important Democrat Arthur Krim. Where does your "Mordechai" come from.

    Sloppy slanders aren’t very effective. Mathilde (not Matilda) Krim’s husband was the important Democrat Arthur Krim. Where does your “Mordechai” come from.

    Current day Esther and Mordechai — Javanka!

    Think Peace — Art

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  230. Luddite says: • Website

    http://www.jimrogers.com/content/stories/articles/bombing_of_chinese_embassy.html

    There seems to be an understanding, among governments, that actions deemed hostile — especially in military theatres, undertaken by one government against another (friend or faux), can be neutralized with lethal force.

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  231. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    To the author of this article, Phil Giraldi.

    Dear Mr. Giraldi:

    You could have made a lot of progress against the Jewish lobby which you so despise if you had written back in about 2007 about how that same Jewish lobby and Israel have hypocritically cooperated with Turkey to deny the Christian Armenian genocide it committed and have also assisted Turkey in preventing the US Congress from recognizing that genocide with a simple resolution.

    Of course, the hypocrisy is that the Jewish lobby and Israel always require the world to recognize the Holocaust and pay for restitution for that Holocaust while they help to deny the genocide of Christian Armenians (and Greeks and Assyrians).

    So you see, sir, people will for their own reasons from time to time either help to cover up the misdeeds of the Jewish lobby and Israel or not cover an important issue an all.

    Read More
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  232. @ChuckOrloski
    AB,

    Consider this possibility please?

    The words of a patriotic USS Liberty sailor (average IQ) during the attack, and one who early on recognized a Star of David insignia:

    "The Jews are coming... the hasbara Jews are coming!"

    America is at war, AB, but we're deceived as to having an ability to know WHO is the real enemy.

    Upon one's awareness of facts / truth, that's when the work of dark (high IQ) occult forces tend to get exposed.

    Thank you Mr. P. Giraldi for all the "heads up" warnings!

    Selah.

    You got it all confused. “Dark occult forces” can be exposed from the very beginning based on the date of event, its location(s) and/or coordinates, the names of objects or people pertaining to it, digital description(s) as a whole and by parts, etc. The proven presence of occult (i.e., a proven beyond any doubts presence of digital alignment) excludes the accidental nature of that event. And this is already a lot. As for “Selah” – according to Wikipedia nobody knows what it is (perhaps you do ?!), but one of its 3 numeric explanations has everything to do with this case.

    Read More
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  233. @peterAUS
    Well, I've gone through Slade's material and Vdnetta's posts related to this topic.

    Long story short, assuming those facts are correct, I agree with Slade (and, consequently, with Vdnetta).

    Points I found interesting are (excerpts, one by one; bold parts are mine):

    At the time, she was operating under orders from the US Sixth Fleet to stay “outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said.” This is where the first error of judgement took place. Her handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt’s territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles from Port Said.

    The United States never approved the appointment of a liaison officer, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty’s arrival in the area

    At eleven o’clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board.

    the Israelis back then made a big thing out of their contempt for the routines, practices and doctrines employed by more established armed forces. In fact, they derided such practices as being typical of hidebound reactionaries; the Israeli Military Forces didn’t need all that nonsense about correct procedure.

    Ensign Aharon Yifrah, combat information officer aboard the flagship of these torpedo boats miscalculated their target’s speed as 30 knots, not realizing sea conditions had slowed his real speed to around 25. Again we have the sloppy attitude of the Israeli Armed Forces entering the picture

    Israeli naval commanders called up the air force and asked for help from whatever was available. What was available were two Mirages returning from a bombing strike, they were armed only with 30 millimeter cannons and air-to-air missiles and were very short on fuel. Had this been a deliberate attack they would have carried a warload better suited for attacking a ship.

    these were pilots who were not trained for maritime operations

    Minutes later came a second group of planes, Super-Mysteres, equally ill-suited for a naval engagement. They had been diverted from a strike against Egyptian infantry positions and carried napalm (but had been diverted going out, not coming back so had a decent fuel reserve).

    The Israeli communications system in 1967 was basically WW2 equipment that had been overhauled and modernized. It was already overloaded with running a fast-moving mobile war and , thanks to a breakdown in that communications system, the message to the Navy was caught in a backlog of calls waiting to go out

    the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment.

    Flag is at the stern, the ship is heading away from the FAC that are chasing her from astern.

    a range of 4 to 8 miles from a 60 ton speedboat bouncing around in a cloud of spray while being shaken to pieces by two 4,000 shaft horsepower diesels running flat out.

    One of the American sailors on board, disregarded Captain McGonagle’s order not to fire on the approaching craft, and opened up with a deck gun.

    telling the difference between dirty silver and shiny gray is very hard – especially since both would have taken on a blue tinge by reflection from the surrounding sea and sky

    he wasn’t trying to find out “which ship is this” he was looking for “which Egyptian Ship looks most like the one in front of me”

    When they reached the bows, the captain of one boat saw “GTR-5″ on the hull. He immediately halted fire, extended help to the Liberty, and called for rescue helicopters.
     
    Again, let's not get lost sight of the real issue while focusing on details.

    The very fact that we are yammering here (with thousands of other people all over Internet and publishing) is so wrong it boggles the mind.
    We are talking about US Government here.
    United States of America..........

    It should have had proper inquiry, produced a detailed report and published it.
    Also the recognition, compensations, responsibilities with consequences, even punishments.
    Israel too.

    This place is not proper to seriously discuss the issue, really.
    It demands proper sources, resources, methodology....the works.

    In fact, writing about this here feels not only inadequate but, really, demeaning for all involved in the case.

    Proper inquiry is required.
    And it is impossible in current (geo)political and US/Israel current political climate.

    Surreal.

    “the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment. ”

    First time I’ve heard that. A ship designed for radio-electronic combat would have numerous and powerful RF transmitters and directional antennas separate from those used for signal intelligence gathering. In short, such transmitters would be a detriment to the NSA vessel’s primary mission of picking up low-level HF/VHF/UHF signals due to front-end desensitization. The primary receivers back in 1967 would probably be Nems-Clarke/ Watkins-Johnsons. ( http://watkins-johnson.terryo.org/history/Nems-Clarke-history.htm ) I’m not sure what kind of ECCM is even possible from the standpoint of deliberate jamming of US Navy communications frequencies, which has been confirmed by GTR-5 personnel. Jamming of an HF communications link is pretty simple, especially if you have a tunable transmitter and some sort of modulation device.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well....you do have a point.

    I am not a specialist in that area for sure.

    The excerpt gist, still, remains. There was not any intentional jamming of Liberty's transmissions.

    The physical damage from bombing and strafing, casualties and overall "combat mindset" (polite expression for breakup of usual procedures under fire and having own dead and wounded around....) were a reason for temporary loss of communications.
    We do know that the communication between Liberty and the torpedo boats was attempted by Aldis lamp, not any radio. Points to damaged equipment.

    Again, I do not have (who has?) access to proper sources.

    The fact is that Israel didn't have good ECCM capability in general at the time.
    It appears that of those they had none was deployed there.

    Airplanes were able to communicate between themselves and their command.
    Torpedo boats were able to communicate between themselves and their command.
    Allowing all that communication while jamming all of Liberty communication...then..by Israel....well........not likely.

    All I know at the moment makes me agree with Mr. Slade's material.

    , @Eagle Eye

    “the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment. ”
     
    The short answer is that jamming aims at a RECEIVER not at a transmitter. The aim is to overwhelm the targeted transmitter's signal as seen by the receiver.

    To jam a receiver, a jamming signal must be emitted to cover the opponent's transmission. Since the strength of radio signals decreases with the square of the distance from the respective transmitters (original signal and jamming signal), it is advantageous to place the jamming transmitter close to the targeted receiver. If the opponent's transmitter is 100 miles from the receiver, then a jamming signal of equal strength emitted from 50 miles away will appear 4 times as strong as the opponent's transmitter to the opponent's receiver, so the opponent's desired signal is effectively jammed.

    What does this mean? It would have been relatively easy to jam INCOMING signals that the USS Liberty would try to receive from U.S. naval vessels etc. This would still leave the USS Liberty the ability to transmit an SOS-type signal blindly (without being able to hear any responses).

    The USS Liberty would have been in routine contacts with land-based NSA stations in Egypt or elsewhere in the Eastern Mediterranean, as well as with military stations such as U.S. Navy units.

    The idea that transmitting antennas on the Libery would have been completely destroyed etc. sounds dubious. We are basically talking about long wires strung along the deck of the Liberty. Also, there would be several sets of antennas for different wavelengths, directionality etc. Lastly, it is quite easy to jury-rig a simple antenna within 20 minutes. Of course, the "fog of war" can complicate even simple operations.

    BOTTOM LINE: the USS Liberty probably remained able to transmit calls for help but MAY have been handicapped in receiving responses on standard frequencies. These handicaps were probably overcome within 15-30 minutes by trying different frequencies etc. that could not be comprehensively jammed.

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  234. @annamaria
    Israelis know their place..."
    If only. The US government has been heavily penetrated by Israel-firsters who have been using the US resources for their pleasure, namely, for propping up the tribal toy in the Middle East.
    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=dalck_feith_1
    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=richard_perle
    The ongoing mass slaughter in the Middle East is the result of the implementation of Clean Break project (Oded Yinon plan for Greater Israel). Israel has been financing and supporting radical jihadis in the Middle East and Israel continues attacking Syrian sovereignty even after their proteges, ISIS, received a mortal blow from the Syrian army: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811226
    The Jews' tribal hatred towards a much older, nobler and richer civilization of Iran (as compared to Judaism which borrowed heavily from other cultures) pushes the western world toward a major war with the Middle East and Russia. Israel-firsters are not rational and they are not reasonable. They are fanatics. Israel in its present form is an insult to the memory of Holocaust: "Who’s Afraid of Ayelet Shaked? Meet the Secular Jewish Nationalist Who Could Be Israel’s Prime Minister." This Ayelet Shaked who demanded, "Mothers of all Palestinians must be killed." Sounds as Nazism. Israel is indeed a Jewish twin of Nazism. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.811185
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/17/mothers-of-all-palestinians-must-be-killed-israeli-mp/comment-page-1/

    Isn’t it a bit silly to talk of “Jews’ tribal hatred towards a much older, nobler, richer civilization” when the ancient, noble and rich civilization(s) and culture(s) were destroyed by Muslim and Mongol invaders? It reminds me of cant about Australian Aborigines having the oldest continuous living culture which, apart from ignoring the pygmies and Khoi San who didn’t leave Africa, implies rather insultingly that they learned nothing much in 50,000 years which included travels along the tropical coasta of South Asia. And how many Jews do you know who take seriously as history the myths of the Hebrew Bible?

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "And how many Jews do you know who take seriously as history the myths of the Hebrew Bible?"
    Intellectual dishonesty is the hallmark of your posts on this forum. Supporting the mythological project of Eretz Israel by any means, while showing a hatred towards the old, noble, and rich Persian (Iranian) civilization, does not require taking seriously the "myths of the Hebrew Bible." The exhilarating sense of "chosenness" is enough.
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  235. @peterAUS
    Well, I've gone through Slade's material and Vdnetta's posts related to this topic.

    Long story short, assuming those facts are correct, I agree with Slade (and, consequently, with Vdnetta).

    Points I found interesting are (excerpts, one by one; bold parts are mine):

    At the time, she was operating under orders from the US Sixth Fleet to stay “outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said.” This is where the first error of judgement took place. Her handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt’s territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles from Port Said.

    The United States never approved the appointment of a liaison officer, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty’s arrival in the area

    At eleven o’clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board.

    the Israelis back then made a big thing out of their contempt for the routines, practices and doctrines employed by more established armed forces. In fact, they derided such practices as being typical of hidebound reactionaries; the Israeli Military Forces didn’t need all that nonsense about correct procedure.

    Ensign Aharon Yifrah, combat information officer aboard the flagship of these torpedo boats miscalculated their target’s speed as 30 knots, not realizing sea conditions had slowed his real speed to around 25. Again we have the sloppy attitude of the Israeli Armed Forces entering the picture

    Israeli naval commanders called up the air force and asked for help from whatever was available. What was available were two Mirages returning from a bombing strike, they were armed only with 30 millimeter cannons and air-to-air missiles and were very short on fuel. Had this been a deliberate attack they would have carried a warload better suited for attacking a ship.

    these were pilots who were not trained for maritime operations

    Minutes later came a second group of planes, Super-Mysteres, equally ill-suited for a naval engagement. They had been diverted from a strike against Egyptian infantry positions and carried napalm (but had been diverted going out, not coming back so had a decent fuel reserve).

    The Israeli communications system in 1967 was basically WW2 equipment that had been overhauled and modernized. It was already overloaded with running a fast-moving mobile war and , thanks to a breakdown in that communications system, the message to the Navy was caught in a backlog of calls waiting to go out

    the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment.

    Flag is at the stern, the ship is heading away from the FAC that are chasing her from astern.

    a range of 4 to 8 miles from a 60 ton speedboat bouncing around in a cloud of spray while being shaken to pieces by two 4,000 shaft horsepower diesels running flat out.

    One of the American sailors on board, disregarded Captain McGonagle’s order not to fire on the approaching craft, and opened up with a deck gun.

    telling the difference between dirty silver and shiny gray is very hard – especially since both would have taken on a blue tinge by reflection from the surrounding sea and sky

    he wasn’t trying to find out “which ship is this” he was looking for “which Egyptian Ship looks most like the one in front of me”

    When they reached the bows, the captain of one boat saw “GTR-5″ on the hull. He immediately halted fire, extended help to the Liberty, and called for rescue helicopters.
     
    Again, let's not get lost sight of the real issue while focusing on details.

    The very fact that we are yammering here (with thousands of other people all over Internet and publishing) is so wrong it boggles the mind.
    We are talking about US Government here.
    United States of America..........

    It should have had proper inquiry, produced a detailed report and published it.
    Also the recognition, compensations, responsibilities with consequences, even punishments.
    Israel too.

    This place is not proper to seriously discuss the issue, really.
    It demands proper sources, resources, methodology....the works.

    In fact, writing about this here feels not only inadequate but, really, demeaning for all involved in the case.

    Proper inquiry is required.
    And it is impossible in current (geo)political and US/Israel current political climate.

    Surreal.

    Thanks for strengthening Commonsense Corner. But, in the absence of a proper public inquiry it wluld be good to have Philip Giraldi firm up his authority and credibility by giving his assessment of that material. (After all most UR readers must want to be able to respect any opinion expressed by its regular contributors like PG, SS and JD).

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    strengthening Commonsense Corner
     
    Ah...you have, I feel, a fundamental misunderstanding of how the "Internet debate world" works.
    This (I think a lady) said it well:
    "….only a very few are interested in truth as can be discerned to the best of one’s ability- The rest just want, like high school, to follow the ‘in crowd’ and belong."
    I have it plastered on my desktops as a constant reminder.

    Actually, I am impressed by this site so far.
    The owner and moderators do tolerate different opinions.
    Well, at least so far......

    I've been on the Internet since its beginning.
    The trend is unmistakable.

    A site starts as a free exchange of ideas->groups form->groups get leaders->leaders, supported by groups jockey for primacy->when primacy is achieved (getting into moderators group) sooner or later (slower or faster), but definitely, the losing group is evicted.->newcomers either get 'domesticated' or evicted.
    Always.

    So, we'll see how it goes here.

    As for this event I also believe there is a fundamental error in finding the truth here.
    People not accepting "conspiracy to sink and murder" are, apparently, supposed to provide evidence here.
    Wrong.
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".
    If we accept that the even IS extraordinary........well......

    So, yes, your suggestion that author of the article or, IMHO, anybody else, asses that material does make a lot of sense.

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  236. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Stalin
    "the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existant; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment. "

    First time I've heard that. A ship designed for radio-electronic combat would have numerous and powerful RF transmitters and directional antennas separate from those used for signal intelligence gathering. In short, such transmitters would be a detriment to the NSA vessel's primary mission of picking up low-level HF/VHF/UHF signals due to front-end desensitization. The primary receivers back in 1967 would probably be Nems-Clarke/ Watkins-Johnsons. ( http://watkins-johnson.terryo.org/history/Nems-Clarke-history.htm ) I'm not sure what kind of ECCM is even possible from the standpoint of deliberate jamming of US Navy communications frequencies, which has been confirmed by GTR-5 personnel. Jamming of an HF communications link is pretty simple, especially if you have a tunable transmitter and some sort of modulation device.

    Well….you do have a point.

    I am not a specialist in that area for sure.

    The excerpt gist, still, remains. There was not any intentional jamming of Liberty’s transmissions.

    The physical damage from bombing and strafing, casualties and overall “combat mindset” (polite expression for breakup of usual procedures under fire and having own dead and wounded around….) were a reason for temporary loss of communications.
    We do know that the communication between Liberty and the torpedo boats was attempted by Aldis lamp, not any radio. Points to damaged equipment.

    Again, I do not have (who has?) access to proper sources.

    The fact is that Israel didn’t have good ECCM capability in general at the time.
    It appears that of those they had none was deployed there.

    Airplanes were able to communicate between themselves and their command.
    Torpedo boats were able to communicate between themselves and their command.
    Allowing all that communication while jamming all of Liberty communication…then..by Israel….well……..not likely.

    All I know at the moment makes me agree with Mr. Slade’s material.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    James Ennis' "Assault on the Liberty" states that the US Navy communications frequencies were being jammed; whether they were from a broadband dedicated HF jammer or narrow-band HF transmitter thrown into service as an ad-hoc jammer I don't know. Never got an answer from him as far as I can recall.

    "When the technicians jury-rigged an antenna in order to call for help, radiomen found the frequencies blocked by buzz saw signals from the jets."

    Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Reveals Failure of C3, James M. Ennis, Defense Electronics, October 1981

    ------------

    Former NSA Officials Agree

    David C. Walsh

    The jamming of unique U.S. frequencies during the Liberty incident seems to establish deliberate intent. And in exclusive interviews with this author, several former high-level National Security Agency (NSA) officials agree.

    On 14 February 2003, the "godfather" of the NSA's Auxiliary General Technical Research program, Oliver Kirby, noted that the Liberty was "my baby." Within weeks of the calamity, Kirby, deputy director for operations/production, read U.S. signals intelligence (SigInt)-generated transcripts and "staff reports" at NSA's Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters. They were of Israeli pilots' conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it "absolutely certain" they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said. Kirby's is the first public disclosure by a top-level NSA senior of deliberate intent based on personal analyses of SigInt material.

    In an interview on 24 February 2003, retired Air Force Major General John Morrison, the agency's then-second-in-command (and Kirby's successor), said he had been informed at the time of Kirby's findings and endorsed them. Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom said on 3 March 2003 said that, on the strength of such data, the attack's deliberateness "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the agency. On 5 March 2003, retired Navy Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, NSA director from 1977-1981, said he "flatly rejected" the Cristol/Israeli thesis. "It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [the Liberty] was not correctly identified." He said this was based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge. All four were unaware of any agency official at that time or later who dissented from the "deliberate" conclusion

    Naval Institute Proceedings, June 2003
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  237. utu says:

    Maybe there is a hope. Look at todays Daily Mail

    The conspiracies that won’t go away: Brother of 9/11 victim claim the US orchestrated the atrocity as new study shows it was impossible that the third tower collapsed from fire

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4867124/9-11-conspiracy-theories-persist-16-years-atrocity.html#ixzz4s9YM7cg0

    Read More
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  238. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks for strengthening Commonsense Corner. But, in the absence of a proper public inquiry it wluld be good to have Philip Giraldi firm up his authority and credibility by giving his assessment of that material. (After all most UR readers must want to be able to respect any opinion expressed by its regular contributors like PG, SS and JD).

    strengthening Commonsense Corner

    Ah…you have, I feel, a fundamental misunderstanding of how the “Internet debate world” works.
    This (I think a lady) said it well:
    “….only a very few are interested in truth as can be discerned to the best of one’s ability- The rest just want, like high school, to follow the ‘in crowd’ and belong.”
    I have it plastered on my desktops as a constant reminder.

    Actually, I am impressed by this site so far.
    The owner and moderators do tolerate different opinions.
    Well, at least so far……

    I’ve been on the Internet since its beginning.
    The trend is unmistakable.

    A site starts as a free exchange of ideas->groups form->groups get leaders->leaders, supported by groups jockey for primacy->when primacy is achieved (getting into moderators group) sooner or later (slower or faster), but definitely, the losing group is evicted.->newcomers either get ‘domesticated’ or evicted.
    Always.

    So, we’ll see how it goes here.

    As for this event I also believe there is a fundamental error in finding the truth here.
    People not accepting “conspiracy to sink and murder” are, apparently, supposed to provide evidence here.
    Wrong.
    “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”.
    If we accept that the even IS extraordinary……..well……

    So, yes, your suggestion that author of the article or, IMHO, anybody else, asses that material does make a lot of sense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    My main problem with the "conspiracy to sink and murder".

    Why Israelis tried to do that so....wrong?

    I mean, they'd been proven to be competent and ruthless killers.

    Why not:
    Observe the area with land based radar. Track the ship.
    Usual procedure, a couple of guys easy to keep under control.
    Get one plane to exactly pinpoint the ship (Mark I eyeball vs radar...).
    Again, usual procedure, two guys tops in the cabin, easy to keep under control.
    Ideally dispatch a submarine, but Israelis had problems with that. Backup option, torpedo boats.
    Dispatch two torpedo boats and use the plane to vector them on the ship.
    One boat should be enough, other for backup.
    Number of people getting not ideal, but....
    Approach the ship and signal (naval signal lamp, not radio) to "heave-to".
    Approach at one side to have a length of the ship in sights, get as close as practicable (minimum arming distance etc) , two torpedoes, and launch.
    That should sink her.
    Let's skip grim work now.....morbid enough......

    Overall, small battalion sized unit which could even train and rehearse together, iron out communications etc day before.
    Easy to keep under, say, Special Forces/intelligence community umbrella.

    Minimum fuss, minimum number of people involved, minimum electronics footprint......

    Instead, do the opposite.

    Just doesn't make sense.
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  239. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon
    Do you know how to use footnotes? If so, please follow the link I gave in my #116 under the paragraph where you are asking for sources. Please see footnote [11] pointing to the source document, and remarks by Dr. William Quandt, which confirm everything in the paragraph I quoted here from Ms. Spingola.

    To make it as easy as possible for you, I have included a direct link, below, to this document, and a relevant excerpt here:

    [11] 40 Years after the 1967 War: The Impact of a Prolonged Occupation by Jan de Jong, Dr. Edmund Ghareeb, Herbert Kelman, Ambassador Afif Safieh, Dr. William Quandt, Alvaro de Soto, The Palestine Center, Washington, DC, 2007, pp. 10-11

    Dr. Quandt joined the Department of Politics at the University of Virginia and he holds the Edward Stettinius chair there. He started in 1994 and he has served as an academic in a number of universities and institutions, think tanks in the United States, including Brookings and Rand Corporation and he also served with the National Security Council. He has written extensively on this issue and was involved with the 1978 Camp David Accords. He is the author of many books...
     
    Dr. Quandt:

    I was not in government at the time. I didn’t begin my own service in government until five years later.

    I had the chance at various times to look at all the publicly available documents as well as some of those that have not yet been released.
    [...]
    The last days of May were very puzzling and complex. Johnson left town for his Texas ranch on 27 May, right as the crisis was getting very, very tense indeed. He took none of his foreign policy advisors with him. Instead, he was surrounded by his family and friends, including Democratic party money man and his Texas neighbor, Arthur Krim, and his wife Mathilde with whom Johnson seemed to have, what we might now politely call, a very close personal relationship. Mathilde was also a convert to Judaism who had worked as a secret agent for the Irgun right after World War II and had helped to smuggle guns from Europe to the Irgun underground. She later married movie mogul Arthur Krim and retained a vivid interest in the Middle East. The files actually show numerous instances of her passing documents directly to Johnson during the crisis, usually supporting a very hawkish viewpoint.
    [...]
    Johnson did not return to Washington until 1 June in the company, incidentally, of Mrs. Krim, who then stayed on at the White House as his guest for the next week.
    [...]
    News of the beginning of the war reached LBJ early in the morning on 5 June. He did not seem to be surprised. The first person he informed was Mathilde Krim. Johnson was a complex man; he did not share the views of some of his aides that Israel’s military victory was a cause for celebration. At a meeting on 7 June when the magnitude of Israel’s victory was already apparent and some of the aides were, in fact, rather happy and enthusiastic, Johnson said that he was not so sure that we were out of our troubles...
     
    http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/40-Years-after-the-1967-War-The-Impact-of-a-Prolonged-Occupation.pdf

    Israel has never had a more willing sycophant and eager butt-kisser than Lyndon Johnson, but now that his beloved Israel had crushed the Arab armies and air forces, why would LBJ be worried on June 7th?

    Was it because he knew the Liberty would be attacked on June 8th?

    What might the generals have had up their sleeves, had the Liberty gone down with all hands?

    By keeping their ship afloat, the valiant crew of the U.S.S. Liberty defeated treacherous and perfidious Israel, and the devious machinations of American traitors like LBJ, by achieving one of the greatest naval victories of all time.

    Betrayed by their own leaders, the USN heroes of the Liberty nevertheless prevented a successful false flag attack on their ship that might have been blamed on some scapegoat nation as justification for US military action.

    There are no greater American heroes than the crew of the U.S.S. Liberty.

    Certainly, nobody with any knowledge of military affairs has ever accepted Israel’s pathetic excuse of mistaken identity, but then, everyone knows we’re dealing with The World’s Biggest Liars.

    Amazingly, for as much practice as they’ve had, they’re not very good at it, relying mostly on Chutzpah.

    Oy vey! If it weren’t so tragic, it’d be funny.

    But internal White House documents obtained from the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library show that the Israelis’ explanation of how the mistake had occurred was not believed.

    Except for McNamara, most senior administration officials from Secretary of State Dean Rusk on down privately agreed with Johnson’s intelligence adviser, Clark Clifford, who was quoted in minutes of a National Security Council staff meeting as saying it was “inconceivable” that the attack had been a case of mistaken identity.

    The attack “couldn’t be anything else but deliberate,” the NSA’s director, Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter, later told Congress.

    “I don’t think you’ll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental,” Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director, said in an interview.

    New revelations in attack on Navy spy ship
    John Crewdson, Chicago Tribune, Oct. 2, 2007

    Read More
    • Replies: @Miro23

    By keeping their ship afloat, the valiant crew of the U.S.S. Liberty defeated treacherous and perfidious Israel, and the devious machinations of American traitors like LBJ, by achieving one of the greatest naval victories of all time.
     
    When they get the recognition they deserve, and the traitorous events of 9/11 are also taught in schools, then the US will be well on the way to being an independent and respected country again.

    Of course, the Ziocs will do everything they can to stop it.
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  240. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    strengthening Commonsense Corner
     
    Ah...you have, I feel, a fundamental misunderstanding of how the "Internet debate world" works.
    This (I think a lady) said it well:
    "….only a very few are interested in truth as can be discerned to the best of one’s ability- The rest just want, like high school, to follow the ‘in crowd’ and belong."
    I have it plastered on my desktops as a constant reminder.

    Actually, I am impressed by this site so far.
    The owner and moderators do tolerate different opinions.
    Well, at least so far......

    I've been on the Internet since its beginning.
    The trend is unmistakable.

    A site starts as a free exchange of ideas->groups form->groups get leaders->leaders, supported by groups jockey for primacy->when primacy is achieved (getting into moderators group) sooner or later (slower or faster), but definitely, the losing group is evicted.->newcomers either get 'domesticated' or evicted.
    Always.

    So, we'll see how it goes here.

    As for this event I also believe there is a fundamental error in finding the truth here.
    People not accepting "conspiracy to sink and murd