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The Dancing Israelis
Trump was right about 9/11 but they weren't Muslims
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Senator Rand Paul, supported by a number of other congressmen, has demanded that the 28 pages of the 9/11 Commission Report that explored the Saudi Arabian role in the terrorist attack be made public. The redacted section of the report, which apparently concluded that the Saudi government itself played no direct role in 9/11, nevertheless contained considerable evidence suggesting that wealthy Saudis and even members of the Royal Family had been supporting and funding al-Qaeda. Some who have actually read the 28 pages were reported to be shocked by what was revealed.

Recent comments by presidential aspirant Donald Trump indicating that he was aware of people celebrating the terrorist attack in New Jersey, whom he described as “Muslims” numbering in their thousands, might well be regarded as misremembering events that took place over fourteen years ago. Or it could just possibly be part of a deliberate scheme to establish a false narrative that would fit nicely with Trump’s stated desire to surveil mosques, waterboard suspects and subject all Muslims to extraordinary scrutiny by the police.

The Trump over-the-top comments were greeting with disbelief and debunked by many media pundits. They were even denounced by some Republicans competing with him for the GOP nomination. But what is really astonishing about the reaction was the failure to connect the dots with what actually happened on 9/11. There were indeed people celebrating as the Twin Towers were burning and collapsing, but they were not Muslims. They were Israelis.

If the Saudi role in 9/11 is still classified secret it is regrettable, but the Israeli role, insofar as can be determined, was never seriously investigated at all and any conclusions, if there were any, were never included in the final report. This time around with the story being resurfaced by Trump one would think that a journalist or two just might be able to make the connection and realize that Donald may have actually been referring to a reported incident involving Israelis rather than Arabs and that he is possibly confusing one with the other.

But of course no one in the mainstream media did pick up on the connection, inhibited no doubt by the understanding that there are some things that one just does not write about Israel if one hopes to remain employed. That is true in spite of the fact that the Israeli angle to 9/11 is without a doubt a good story, one that has never been satisfactorily explored, but it is a tale that will have to remain mired in the alternative media where it can be marginalized by critics as a conspiracy theory or the product of anti-Semitism.

So for the benefit of Mr. Trump and for anyone else who might be interested, I will take it upon myself to relate what happened. Quite possibly Senator Paul will read this and decide that giving billions of dollars in aid annually to a country that just might have been linked to what occurred on 9/11 might no longer be a good idea. He might even demand an inquiry or a commission to look into it and determine what exactly the U.S. government does and does not know. That would be very interesting.

In the year 2001 Israel was running a massive spying operation directed against Muslims either resident or traveling in the United States. The operation included the creation of a number of cover companies in New Jersey, Florida and also on the west coast that served as spying mechanisms for Mossad officers. The effort was supported by the Mossad Station in Washington D.C. and included a large number of volunteers, the so-called “art students” who traveled around the U.S. selling various products at malls and outdoor markets. The FBI was aware of the numerous Israeli students who were routinely overstaying their visas and some in the Bureau certainly believed that they were assisting their country’s intelligence service in some way, but it proved difficult to actually link the students to actual undercover operations, so they were regarded as a minor nuisance and were normally left to the tender mercies of the inspectors at the Bureau of Customs and Immigration.

American law enforcement was also painfully aware that the Israelis were running more sophisticated intelligence operations inside the United States, many of which were focused on Washington’s military capabilities and intentions. Some specialized intelligence units concentrated on obtaining military and dual use technology. It was also known that Israeli spies had penetrated the phone systems of the U.S. government, to include those at the White House.

In its annual classified counterespionage review, the FBI invariably places Israel at the top for “friendly” countries that spy on the U.S. In fact, the pre-9/11 Bureau did its best to stay on top of the problem, but it rarely received any political support from the Justice Department and White House if an espionage case involved Israelis. By one estimate, more than 100 such cases were not prosecuted for political reasons. Any Israeli caught in flagrante would most often be quietly deported and most Americans who were helping Israel were let off with a slap on the wrist.

But the hands-off attitude towards Israel shifted dramatically when, on September 11, 2001, a New Jersey housewife saw something from the window of her apartment building, which overlooked the World Trade Center. She watched as the buildings burned and crumbled but also noted something strange. Three young men were kneeling on the roof of a white transit van parked by the water’s edge, making a movie in which they featured themselves high fiving and laughing in front of the catastrophic scene unfolding behind them. The woman wrote down the license plate number of the van and called the police, who responded quickly and soon both the local force and the FBI began looking for the vehicle, which was subsequently seen by other witnesses in various locations along the New Jersey waterfront, its occupants “celebrating and filming.”

The license plate number revealed that the van belonged to a New Jersey registered company called Urban Moving Systems. At 4 p.m. the vehicle was spotted and pulled over. Five men between the ages of 22 and 27 years old emerged. They were detained at gunpoint and handcuffed. They were all Israelis. One of them had $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock and another had two foreign passports. Bomb sniffing dogs reacted to the smell of explosives in the van.

According to the initial police report, the driver identified as Sivan Kurzberg, stated “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.” The four other passengers were Sivan’s brother Paul, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men were detained at the Bergen County jail in New Jersey before being transferred the FBI’s Foreign Counterintelligence Section, which handles allegations of spying.

After the arrest, the FBI obtained a warrant to search Urban Moving System’s Weehawken, N.J., offices. Papers and computers were seized. The company owner Dominick Suter, also an Israeli, answered FBI questions but when a follow-up interview was set up a few days later it was learned that he had fled the country for Israel, putting both his business and home up for sale. The office space and warehouse were abandoned. It was later learned that Suter has been associated with at least fourteen businesses in the United States, mostly in New Jersey and New York but also in Florida. Suter and his wife Omit Levinson Suter were the owners of 1 Stop Cleaner located in Wellington Florida and Dominick was also associated with Basia McDonnell, described as a Polish “holocaust survivor,” as a business partner in yet another business called Value Ad. Florida was a main focus for the Israeli intelligence operation in the U.S. that was directed against Arabs.

The five Israelis were held in Brooklyn, initially on charges relating to visa fraud. FBI interrogators questioned them for more than two months. Several were held in solitary confinement so they could not communicate with each other and two of them were given repeated polygraph exams, which they failed when claiming that they were nothing more than students working summer jobs. The two men that the FBI focused on most intensively were believed to be Mossad staff officers and the other three were volunteers helping with surveillance.

The Israelis were not exactly cooperative, but the FBI concluded from documents obtained at their office in Weehawken that they were targeting Arabs in New York and New Jersey, most particularly in the Paterson N.J. area, which has the second largest Muslim population in the U.S. They were particularly interested in local groups possibly linked to Hamas and Hezbollah as well as in charities that might be used for fund raising. The FBI also concluded that there was a distinct possibility that the Israelis had actually monitored the activities of at least two of the 9/11 hijackers.

To be sure, working on an intelligence operation does not necessarily imply participation in either the planning or execution of something like 9/11, but there are Israeli fingerprints all over the place, with cover companies and intelligence personnel often intersecting with locations frequented by the hijackers. And even possessing bits and pieces relating to the plot does not necessarily imply significant prior knowledge of it.

Apart from the interrogations of the five men from Weehawken, the U.S. government has apparently never sought to find out what else the Israelis might have known or were up to in September 2011. There are a lot a dots that might well have been connected once upon a time, but the trail has grown cold. Police records in New Jersey and New York where the men were held have disappeared and FBI interrogation reports are inaccessible. Media coverage of the case also died, though the five were referred to in the press as the “dancing Israelis” and by some, more disparagingly, as the “dancing Shlomos.”

Inevitably, the George W. Bush White House intervened. After 71 days in detention, the five Israelis were released from prison, put on a plane, and deported. Two of the men later spoke about their unpleasant experience in America on an Israeli talk show, one explaining that their filming the fall of the Twin Towers was to “document the event.” In 2004 the five men sued the United States government for damages, alleging “that their detention was illegal and that their civil rights were violated, suffering racial slurs, physical violence, religious discrimination, rough interrogations, deprivation of sleep, and many other offenses.” They were represented by Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, who in the previous year had founded the Shurat HaDin Israel Law Center which seeks to bankrupt groups that Israel considers to be “terrorists.” Shurat HaDin is closely tied to the Israeli government.

Now it is just possible that the Urban Moving Israelis were indeed uninvolved in 9/11 but nevertheless working for Mossad, which one has to suspect is the case. More than fourteen years later it is perhaps past time to reveal what exactly the FBI knew and currently knows about both the scale and modus operandi of Israeli espionage in the United States. Did Israel have critical intelligence either in broad outline or possibly in specific detail about 9/11 and let it happen to bind Washington more closely to it in a “global war on terror?” If Senator Rand Paul wants to learn more about the Saudis, it is fair to ask “What about Israel?” If Donald Trump wants to pillory fictional celebrating Muslims it is perhaps appropriate that he begin to take note of the actual celebrating Israelis who were caught in the act on 9/11.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: 9/11, Donald Trump, Islamophobia 
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  1. chris says:

    go ahead Sam and Sherman, please tell us how this isn’t so. We’re all ‘ears’

  2. Here’s a good break down of the dancing not-Muslim peoples from a certain not-to-be-named-in-connection-with-9/11-country in the middle east- watch the whole doc, I’d suggest, but the particular info is from appx the 14 min to 30 min mark:

  3. tanabear says:

    Anybody that looks into the 9/11 attacks knows that Israeli hands were all over it. But the Israelis are “those of whom we do not speak of.” No one dare say what they know to be true, that the 9/11 attacks were a Zionist operation start to finish; that the World Trade towers were blown up; that the war in Iraq was promoted by the same Zionist lobby: that the entire war on terror is a complete lie.

    In George Orwell’s 1984 the motto for the Ministry of Truth is “war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.” I used to think…well… that is a fictional book and in real life you could never get people to believe anything so absurd. Wrong! The fact that the majority of people still believe the official narrative is a testament to the fact that you can get people to believe in far more ridiculous things than Orwell ever dreamed of.

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Al
  4. epebble says:

    All I can conclude from the story is that a bunch of Israelis were happy that US will now get into a endless war with Muslims and that is good for Israel. That seems like a reasonably good guess. After 9/11, countries that have been destroyed one way or other include , Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen and will eventually likely include Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan, Nigeria, Egypt and many others.

  5. Kiza says:

    In 2004 the five men sued the United States government for damages, alleging “that their detention was illegal and that their civil rights were violated, suffering racial slurs, physical violence, religious discrimination, rough interrogations, deprivation of sleep, and many other offenses.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chutzpah.

    Phil is not delivering any new information (that Raimondo of Antiwar.com has not summarized long ago). Therefore, there is no scoop here on Dancing Shlomos. But it is important to set the record straight who was dancing in New York.

    Also, this article with initiate now for the millionth time all the evidence and “evidence” about 911.

    Let me kick it off with a statement that the planes could not have brought down even the twin towers let alone WTC building 7. That was termite, military grade.

  6. Mark Green says: • Website

    There are many unsolved mysteries surrounding the events of 9/11.

    Besides the money and the training and the motives behind the suicidal hijackings themselves, there’s the lingering matter of numerous eyewitness accounts by police and firemen which claimed “multiple explosions” at WTC before the two towers fell.

    There are also simmering questions relating to the presence of thermite and melted steel at Ground Zero.

    And there’s also at least one other extraordinary irregularity.

    Unbeknownst to millions of Americans even today, a third NYC skyscraper fell on 9/11 despite the fact that this modern, steel structure was never hit by an airplane.

    The 47-story-tall ‘Building 7′ collapsed into it own footprint at free-fall speed on the afternoon of Sept. 11th.

    A structural failure of this magnitude has never been seen before or since.

    This spectacular event was captured LIVE on film and has inspired a movement of architects and engineers (lead by Richard Gage, AIA) to ‘re-investigate 9/11′.

    Oddly, the Commission that was created to officially investigate the details of 9/11 did not examine Building 7′s unique collapse. Curious, that.

    Further, it must be acknowledged that many of the key investigators on the 9/11 Commission had either strong, personal ties to the State of Israel, or long and close affiliations with Israel’s lobby inside the United States. This inevitable bias is also applicable to many of America’s top news and entertainment executives. Thus, the thundering silence from NY to Hollywood over 911′s lingering ‘mysteries’.

    To what extent then have political pressures influenced the ‘findings’ and ‘lessons’ of 9/11?

    Was there a conflict-of-interest in play among some of the key investigators inside the 9/11 Commission itself?

    These persistent, unanswered questions suggest an even greater ‘who-done-it’.

    Who will finally unravel and distill the story behind the incremental hijacking of America’s ruling class?

  7. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    Any individuals, who have set up a “movie camera” to film an event before it occurs…clearly have “apriori” knowledge of the event or its inevitability…….

    If the event is a premeditated crime , like a robbery or a murder, failure to notify the police, of its impending nature would make you an accessory to the crime….No?

    In the event that the crime is the greatest terrorist attack perpetrated against the United States since Pearl Harbor… failure to notify the FBI of its impending nature would make you an accessory to a terrorist act .

    Any attempts by any newspaper, news organization, lobbying group, foreign country , or individual to impede, obfuscate , disavow ,or cover up the reality of this occurrence would make them an accessory, after the fact ,also .

    Considering the United States is nearly “insolvent” from spending untold trillions of dollars of future generations of Americans tax money, fighting the heroic war on terror…don’t we owe it to them to at least get the facts right ?

    I don’t really care if they were Muslims, Israeli’s, or “Grandma’s from Savannah”..

    I say ” If you can’t do a “terrorists ” time…..don’t set up to film a ‘terrorists” crime !

    Take’em down.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Wizard of Oz
  8. I’m sure there are Israeli spies in America, but if these guys were spies, then why would they go on a popular late night talk show to deny it, and then sue the US government for damages?

    Granted that the Israelis aren’t the smartest people in the world, but it’s just common sense that if actual spies get caught and then released, you don’t draw media attention to it.

    • Agree: Jeff77450
    • Replies: @Tucker
  9. Tervel says:

    I think this is the first time I see an article about the dancing israelis in a serious publication.

    Which is nice. This is not something that should stay confined in /pol/ threads and yellow sites.

    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    , @Quartermaster
  10. Several years ago I searched the Lexus nexis database to find news paper articles about this event. I found some and for what it’s worth I’ve kept them for posterity. Frankly I disbelieve the conventional story about September 11th.

  11. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:

    The celebrating Muslims were not fictional. Hatred of the US is extremely widespread. You’re a complete naif if you don’t understand that people all over the world, especially Muslims, got a lot of pleasure from 9/11.

    The Sauds were intimately involved with Al Qaeda, but this is not exactly shocking. Since the hijackers were Saudi and Osama Bin Laden is from the Saudi elite.

    The rest of the article is mostly just rumour. You repeat the bit about the Israeli saying on TV that he was there to document 9/11 as if that is a good point in your favour. It is not, it is the opposite. First, it suggests that you don’t speak a second language and second, if I committed a momentous crime I wouldn’t randomly admit to it on TV, would you? Indeed had I any foreknowledge of it I would be extremely careful with what I said on TV and he wasn’t, he just has non native English.

    One lady, from a distance, perceived 5 Israeli semi-vagrants (if you were younger and travelled in places like SE Asia, you’d know what I mean) to be celebrating. You have spun up anow entire theory from this. Isn’t that nuts?

    As I said on another thread. If the Israelis were as nefarious as you want them to be and if they were as cohesive and capable as your fevered dreams imagine them then they would not be setting up a group linked to Afghanistan. They would set up one of the hundreds of groups linked to Palestine. As the Israeli himself said in your article!

    Furthermore if the plan was some ridiculously long timeline effort to convert a random blue sky think piece from the 80s into reality (Oded Yinon) then don’t you think that the invasion of Afghanistan, which lasted much longer than Iraq, counts against you. What could that country possibly have to do with Israel?

    This is a very poor quality article, written in Giraldi’s normal style of confidently put assertion with no logic or substance to back it up. What evidence there is gets followed by ridiculous non sequiturs and outright dishonesty.

    Who is paying you? Or has senility come early.

    • Disagree: Orville H. Larson, Wade
  12. Arnold says:

    9/11 was a Cheney-Netanyahoo-Bandar Bush operation and Osama Bin Laden was the patsy.

    • Replies: @WorkingClass
  13. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:

    On another point, it is hilarious that so many of you think that the media is out to get Muslims when Trump says one thing and the entire media goes nuts to try and prove him wrong.

    Also you try and have it both ways. On one hand you say that Muslims have every right to feel aggrieved with America and the you say that it is impossible that they would celebrate America’s misfortune. Which is it?

  14. geokat62 says:
    @This Is Our Home

    Who is paying you? Or has senility come early.

    To be fair, the question is who is paying you?

    For those who are unaware, I had a few exchanges with this character and it culminated with this comment:

    Wow, with that response, I can definitely say you certainly are someone who is desperately seeking the truth. If you are not already in politics, may I suggest you pursue that as a possible career path, as you’ve provided a smashing demonstration of “spinning the truth.”

    Could you also do me a favour, could you demonstrate your unique skill set by putting forward your best arguments that:

    The world is flat?
    The sun revolves around the earth?
    The universe is only 6 thousand years old?

  15. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    9/11 and the Great American Decline by BAR executive editor Glen Ford

    “9/11 was wielded as a kind of weapon to take down the planet.”

    “So, what do you think will happen now?” The question was posed by the taller of two young Israelis, my sole companions in this section of Liberty State Park on the Jersey City side of the Hudson River, the morning of September 11, 2001.

    “Everything has changed,” I replied, unaware that the same phrase was simultaneously forming on the lips of millions around the globe.

    “Yes, everything has changed,” said the Israeli, looking not at all displeased. He turned to resume taking photos of the greatsmoking space that had been the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center, and of the huge, low cloud that drifted across New York Bay to Brooklyn.

    My fellow witnesses to the collapse of the second tower were already positioned at the riverbank when I arrived at the scene on foot after having rushed past police who blocked all vehicular entrance to the park. The athletic, military age duo were clicking away with two very expensive-looking cameras. They spoke excitedly to each other in Hebrew – a language I instantly recognized from my two decades as a Manhattanite – but clumsily claimed to be
    “Polish” when I asked where they were from. I pretended to believe they were visitors from Poland.

    http://www.blackagendareport.com/node/966

    To use if a case of Glen Greenwald anti-Semitism breaks out.

    • Replies: @Anton Chigurh
  16. Rehmat says:

    Donald Trump is no fool. He made that statement to join the rest of 16 or so presidential hopefuls to sleep with the powerful Jewish Lobby and get the support of all those White racists who want an America without Natives, Blacks and especially Muslims who carry hatred of Zionists occupying Palestine.

    I just read David Cole’s recent rant at Taki’s magazine in which claimed that 9/11 attack was celebrated in Berlin streets by Muslim Turk-German citizen. He was trying to support Putin’s claim that Turkey is main force behind ISIS – not ISIS mother, the US-Israel.

    Now, if you believe that David Cole is as smart as Putin – think twice …. nor five times. David Cole who is Jewish and a blind supporters of the Zionist regime, claimed in February 2015: “Holocaust is based on Fakes, Forgeries and Frauds”.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/02/19/david-cole-holocaust-is-based-on-fakes-frauds-and-forgeries/

  17. […] By Philip Giraldi • Unz Review • December 1, 2015 […]

  18. Winston Churchill said that on the night after Pearl Harbor he “went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful.” I expect that joyful would be an accurate word, but not politically appropriate.

    I do not doubt that many Israelis felt thankful after 9/11. That would be a normal reaction of someone facing an existential threat.

    People are going to have lots of opinions, but citing the fact that Israelis felt relief or even joy that the US was having to face reality is not support for conspiracy theories, IMO.

    According to the initial police report, the driver identified as Sivan Kurzberg, stated “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.”

    While this statement reveals a little tunnel vision in narrowly referring to “Palestinians”, it is not unreasonable.

    • Replies: @Irish Savant
    , @anonymous
    , @Wade
  19. MarkinLA says:

    nevertheless contained considerable evidence suggesting that wealthy Saudis and even members of the Royal Family had been supporting and funding al-Qaeda. Some who have actually read the 28 pages were reported to be shocked by what was revealed.

    Well since Al Qaeda has been financed with US and Saudi money since the it’s creation in Afghanistan that certainly makes sense. The idea that the US could raise a pit viper and always be able to grab it right behind it’s head to avoid getting bit was always a bit silly.

  20. Sherman says:

    Anybody who lives in the NYC metropolitan area knows that Israelis have a niche in owning moving companies. Some of these companies are established and licensed and legit. Others are a bit shady and are likely run by young Israelis just out of the army who are overstaying their visas trying to earn a little cash.

    The moving company noted in this article was clearly in the latter category.

    To state that these movers had connections to Israeli intelligence doesn’t mean much. Nobody denies that these guys were IDF veterans and just about every member of the Israeli military has some connection to Israeli intelligence.

    If these guys were indeed laughing at the sight of the WTC collapsing I would attribute to immaturity and shock. I mean, I was in NYC at the time and my office had a clear view of the towers. People were so stunned they didn’t know what to say or how to react. There were plenty of stupid comments and even some morbid and inappropriate jokes going around.

    I highly doubt these dudes were part of some top secret Mossad operation as the Israelis are smart enough not to put boneheads like this in charge of such a critical mission.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Wade
  21. @Kiza

    And where might that “military grade thermite” have come from in the amount needed? Frankly, the assertion is worse than silly.

    The planes did bring the towers down.

    • Replies: @Hugo First
  22. @Mark Green

    We know what brought the twin towers down. Building 7 is a different matter. That one still strikes me as strange and have never seen what I regard as a reasonable explanation of it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Ingot9455
  23. @Kiza

    “That was termite, military grade.”

    Termite — even military grade termite — is useless against steel and concrete. It is only effective against wooden structures. Special forces, rangers, and other commando type units carry termite only in conditions, such as jungle warfare, where wood and wood-related materials are the most common building materials. [See Special Forces Jungle Demolition Techniques, US Armed Forces Publication US-A-SF-1076.3, 2007 edition,]

    • Replies: @Junior
    , @RobinG
    , @Quartermaster
  24. geokat62 says:
    @Sherman

    If these guys were indeed laughing at the sight of the WTC collapsing I would attribute to immaturity and shock.

    Nice try, Sherm.

    Direct quote from eye witness: “They looked happy, they didn’t looked shocked.”

  25. @Kiza

    Let me kick it off with a statement that the planes could not have brought down even the twin towers let alone WTC building 7. That was termite, military grade.

    The military trained termites to chew down buildings? Possible, I guess, but wouldn’t it only work on wooden buildings?

    • Replies: @Irish Savant
    , @Kiza
  26. Another Federal agency had positive proof of Mossad links to various groups of Israeli´s operating in the U.S. who were obviously involved in surveilling the 9/11 terrorists. The Israelis DID have advance knowledge of the plot and chose not to inform us; they may well have had controlled agents inside of the terrorist group guiding it. The FBI was presented with this indisputable intelligence on Israeli involvement and declined to investigate further, plainly stating that this was for domestic political reasons. There was an acrimonious exchange over the issue but in the end nothing happened. treason reached very high into the Bush Administration, and Wolfowitz, Perle, Feither and others of that ilk were the ringmasters.

  27. annamaria says:
    @epebble

    How these dancing Israelis were so sure that it was a terrorist act and that the perpetrators were Arabs? The CIA asset Ben Laden never took responsibility for the attack. How come that the Israelis were so well positioned to observe the destruction and to do the videotaping? Do you see any connection between the Israelis’ joy and the Oded Yinon (PNAC) plan that since then has been implemented in the Middle East against the mostly civilian population in the formerly functioning Middle eastern states?
    “Live by the sword, die by the sword.”

  28. annamaria says:
    @alexander

    The US is so thoroughly taken by the parasitoid that there is no salvation for this country.

  29. annamaria says:
    @Southern Sage

    “…treason reached very high into the Bush Administration, and Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith and others of that ilk were the ringmasters.” Exactly. But see the smugness of the main architects and ideologists of the hollowing out the USA for the benefit of the “promised land.” They are indeed untouchable. The control of MSM is quite complete. The only problem for the chosen is a relatively well armed Russian federation. Hence the visceral hatred by Zionists of RF and the outright indecency of the White House re Ukraine, Syria, and particularly, with regard to the recent tragedies in the air (SU-24 and the civilian plane with more than 200 people on board), which were most likely sponsored and arranged by the same Mossad/CIA scum.

  30. Svigor says:

    Haha, look at how fast these nuts swarm. Unz, I hope you’re at least making some money off of these kooks. Does Unz.com even have advertising? I use a suite of software to block ads and adware, so I never know.

    The third building falling is a bit of a conundrum for the Muslim/Russian Nationalist Conspiracy Nuts:

    1. It was just one of those crazy things.
    2. The American gov’t thought it would be a great idea to just demolish the third building in mysterious fashion. Sort of like a “we’re so badass, we can just bring down a building and nobody will suspect a thing” thing.

    Makes no fucking sense at all, but hey, these are Muslim/Russian Nationalist Conspiracy Nuts we’re talking about; it doesn’t have to make any sense.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  31. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What I don’t get is the motivation for cheering. Did they believe it would mean there would be solidarity with Israel against the Palestinians? Why would this matter, since Israel faces little attacks by Palestinians and Israel acts diabolically and genocidally toward them without any consequences? Did they believe it would mean the U.S. would do what it has done in the past 15 years, namely, spend trillions and kill millions to mitigate Israel’s threats (state actor threats)?

    It does seem really, really curious that FBI would keep a few of them in solitary confinement and hold them for months, give them poles, and FBI interrogators who question them repeatedly if there was not some smoking, damning evidence. And I’m sure few people are privy to this evidence– maybe not even Comey– and if the evidence still exists it is guarded with hyper-top secret protection deep inside FBI counterintelligence rooms that few are allowed to access and none without authorization and colleague escort.

    Why was the CIA not brought in? Can the FBI trust the CIA in such a circumstance? NYPD has Jewish NYPD officers/representatives in Israel and they work together on intelligence issues. Does this make FBI counterintelligence a little uncomfortable working closely with NYPD and providing all of its information? The deputy commissioner of the NYPD, John Miller, is married to Emily Helen Altschul, daughter of banking mogul and Goldman Sachs Group partner Arthur Goodhart Altschul. Alas, the world of finance ultimately controls everything, including law, policing, foreign policy, intelligence, et al.

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  32. Che Guava says:
    @Southern Sage

    I bought a sceptical vid. at a local govt. place, enjoyed watching it,
    entertaining, not so informative, already knew most.

    It was interesting that it was for sale in a local govt. space.

  33. Svigor says:

    Here’s a proper link for that Newsweek story (Newsweek’s site is coded by morons and incorrectly categorizes people who never visit their site (like me) as having “used up” their allowance of 5 free stories a month):

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.newsweek.com/israel-flagged-top-spy-threat-us-new-snowdennsa-document-262991

    And a good story linked in that article:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly-hushed-250278

  34. @Quartermaster

    Perhaps the “military grade thermite” came from the same source as the military grade anthrax spores — which was determined to be a US military installation. Is one any less likely than the other?

  35. GogMagog says:

    John P. O’Neill was forced out of the FBI after repeatedly warning that certain people from the ME had easy access in and out of the US. Certain people within the FBI had warned him off further investigations into some dodgy Saudi’s who O’Neill was best placed and best qualified to deem a threat and worth further investigations.

    The MO was typical and people here should recognize it immediately.

    His suitcase containing important documents was stolen and he found himself hounded out of his position for incompetence when in reality he had become too good of an anti-terrorist operator for certain people in the US deep state (Zionist 5th column) as they had him appointed to the WTC as a security advisor.

    He died on 9/11.

    Just another coincidence…. Move on, nothing to see here.

  36. Svigor says:

    Anybody who lives in the NYC metropolitan area knows that Israelis have a niche in owning moving companies.

    Yes, Jews are famous for their niches: anything involving skullduggery, or helpful in same. You know, manipulating opinion (media, publishing, “journalism”), information flow (middle men, media, intelligence, espionage, security, communications, hookers n’ blow, moving companies, etc.), subversion (politics, media), and of course, financing the whole shebang (banking, Wall Street).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Sherman
  37. Svigor says:

    All I can conclude from the story is that a bunch of Israelis were happy that US will now get into a endless war with Muslims and that is good for Israel. That seems like a reasonably good guess. After 9/11, countries that have been destroyed one way or other include , Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen and will eventually likely include Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan, Nigeria, Egypt and many others.

    Dat not seksy enoff for Muslim/Russian Nationalist Konspiracy Kook.

    I’m sure there are Israeli spies in America, but if these guys were spies, then why would they go on a popular late night talk show to deny it, and then sue the US government for damages?

    Because 1) they’re Jewish, 2) their cover was blown, and 3) people like you would buy it as the perfect cover story?

    As I said on another thread. If the Israelis were as nefarious as you want them to be and if they were as cohesive and capable as your fevered dreams imagine them then they would not be setting up a group linked to Afghanistan. They would set up one of the hundreds of groups linked to Palestine. As the Israeli himself said in your article!

    Why would they do that?

    Furthermore if the plan was some ridiculously long timeline effort to convert a random blue sky think piece from the 80s into reality (Oded Yinon) then don’t you think that the invasion of Afghanistan, which lasted much longer than Iraq, counts against you. What could that country possibly have to do with Israel?

    Invade MENA is part of the NeoCohen strategy. Better to invade a peripheral MENA country than no MENA country at all.

    On another point, it is hilarious that so many of you think that the media is out to get Muslims when Trump says one thing and the entire media goes nuts to try and prove him wrong.

    NeoCohen goal is Invade MENA, Invite the World (into the West, not Israel). Making villains out of Muslims thwarts the second clause. The goal is to destabilize MENA AND destroy the West. Vast majority of Muslim/Russian Nationalist Konspiracy Kooks are too stupid and/or full of shit to acknowledge this.

    Winston Churchill said that on the night after Pearl Harbor he “went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful.” I expect that joyful would be an accurate word, but not politically appropriate.

    I do not doubt that many Israelis felt thankful after 9/11. That would be a normal reaction of someone facing an existential threat.

    People are going to have lots of opinions, but citing the fact that Israelis felt relief or even joy that the US was having to face reality is not support for conspiracy theories, IMO.

    Yes, this is how I imagine Israeli self-deception working. Very slick and wholly self-centered.

  38. Svigor says:

    “Existential Threat,” lol. What’s that? The Haredim?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  39. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor

    Locksmithing is also another shady business with many opportunities for skullduggery. I was once locked out and called the services of a local locksmith that I just found in the phone book or something, and when the locksmith came, he was acting suspiciously and clearly trying to rip me off, so I politely asked him to leave, at which point he started acting in a hostile and aggressive manner and screaming and didn’t leave until I called the police. He was a burly Israeli guy wearing a star of David necklace, and I didn’t think anything of it, until I heard later on that there was a nationwide locksmithing scam run by Israelis using seemingly local locksmith shops as fronts:

  40. Sherman says:
    @Svigor

    Well, at least Jews are smart enough to create niches.

    You’re too dumb to have a niche.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  41. annamaria says:
    @Svigor

    Mind your manners, Svigor. This is not an illegal Israeli settlement or an Ukrainian village.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/01/the-us-russia-proxy-war-in-syria/

    “The administration’s neocons who keep demanding an escalation of tensions with Russia include Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland. Then, there are the officials most identified with arms procurement, sales and use, such as Defense Secretary Ashton Carter… Besides the neocons’ close ties to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the neocons are intimately connected to the interests of the Military-Industrial Complex, which provides substantial funding for the major think tanks where many neocons hang their hats and churn out new arguments for more world conflict and thus more military spending.”

    https://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/us-neocons-whose-war-mongering-has-already-brought-death-to-millions-in-iraq-are-at-it-again/

    “With a militarized Republic has come the loss of liberty through surveillance and “perception management” of the public. .. When information is systematically pushed through a filter designed to ensure consent, the core democratic concept of an informed electorate has been turned on its head…. All this has been part of the neocon approach dating back to the 1980s when key operatives, such as Robert Kagan and Elliott Abrams, were part of inter-agency task forces designed to whip the American people into line behind the government’s aggressive war policies. Guided by seasoned CIA propagandists, such as Walter Raymond Jr., the neocons learned their lessons well.”

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  42. Svigor says:

    I wouldn’t credit Jews with creating those niches, but apparently that level of ANTISEMITISM!!! isn’t beyond you. Have at it.

  43. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sherman

    Well, at least Jews are smart enough to create niches.

    You’re too dumb to have a niche.

    think about that for a minute –( more if you’re a Jew — they always demand special exemptions, maybe because they need them):

    niche
    [niCH, nēSH]
    a shallow recess, especially one in a wall to display a statue or other ornament.
    synonyms: recess · alcove · nook · cranny · hollow · bay · cavity ·
    (one’s niche)

    a comfortable or suitable position in life or employment:
    “he is now a partner at a leading law firm and feels he has found his niche”
    synonyms: ideal position · place · function · vocation · calling ·

    a specialized segment of the market for a particular kind of product or service:
    “he believes he has found a niche in the market” ·

    In all cases, “niche” is a small part, even a very small part, carved out of a larger pre-existing entity that, implicitly, someone else created.

    who created that larger body?
    According to Sherman, it was not a Jew.

  44. We watched TV coverage of the 9/11 attacks and during the first few days saw footage of unidentified persons who were recorded in New Jersey seemingly celebrating the attacks. I don’t know who they were, but resembled Mideast ethnicity – which could have been any, including Israeli. It wasn’t said who they were, citizen or otherwise, but it was very disturbing and provocative.

    I remarked to my family that I believed it dangerous to air such video, as the emotional climate was such as it amounted to mob incitement. As Glenn Greenwald put it in his recent Intercept article, “the post-9/11 climate in the U.S. was dangerous for Muslims, and had the U.S. president ignored the potential for mindless vengeance against a small and marginalized minority, or worse, had he stoked it, some extremely ugly and terrorizing sentiments could easily have been unleashed.”

    I thought then wiser heads, recognizing this danger, pulled the video and we saw it no more after a day or two, although other images endlessly repeated.

    I’m not a Trump fan, but the images he saw that were supposed to be folks celebrating our disaster, really were aired, and I remember them well, due to how dangerous I believed it was to show them. I think that although this now seems to have disappeared down a memory hole, that it certainly contributed to a revengeful “bring it on” attitude and the general persecution of innocents that Glenn Greenwald is making sure is not buried in a retroactive whitewash of convenient misremembering.

    Even more so is this important to understand, for as Phil Giraldi’s careful research indicates, that if the videos were not genuine celebrations of the tower takedowns, it makes it seem likely that the videos which I know were aired, may well have been taken as these Israeli operatives performed celebrations for their own propaganda video, sincere or not.

    If that was discovered to be the case, it is no wonder they were pulled, nor any wonder that it now must be claimed they never existed, in Orwellian fashion.

  45. This is so ironic! Look what just got posted on FreeRepublic, a really ignorant right wing site:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3366803/posts

  46. annamaria says:
    @Svigor

    Well. The threat is indeed existential

    http://thesaker.is/is-turkey-waging-war-on-russia-in-crimea-the-caucasus-and-central-asia-sputnik-news-interviews-saker/

    “Given the fact that ISIL has been created and fuelled by a number of states and private donors, which geopolitical players are resisting Russia’s attempts to eradicate terrorism in the region and preserve the sovereignty of Syria? Is Russia confronting a bunch of terrorists fed by Saudi and Qatari sheikhs or some well-organized multi-national organizations?
    As for Daesh, it is simply one ‘weapon’ used by the [US] Empire to destroy its opponents. There is no such thing as ‘terrorism’ by itself, it is always a weapon used by one (or several) state actors…
    What is taking place today is a world war between, on one hand, the so-called ‘West’ (the US Empire) and the ‘Resistance’ i.e., Russia, China, the BRICS, the SCO countries, Latin America, etc. What is at stake here is the future of our planet…”

  47. @This Is Our Home

    Hello, fool. The woman did not see five Israeli vagrants. How in the hell would she know they were Israeli? She saw five males behaving in what she thought was a very suspicious manner
    And did the correct thing in calling the police.

  48. It’s good that Philip Giraldi points the finger at Israel but he IS somewhat coy about the charges. That Israel might have had an involvement in 9/11 is a bit like saying they might have been involved in the USS Liberty attack.

    Briefly: The ‘dancing Israelis’ who by their own admission were there to ‘record the event’ thereby admitting pre-knowledge of the attack. Israeli-owned Odigo Systems whose employees were given advance warning and cleared the building, ICTS, the Israeli-owned airport security firm which controlled all airports from which the alleged hijackers boarded, and the inexplicable roles of Philip Zelekow, Dov Zakheim and Larry Silverstein among many others.

    • Replies: @The B-Thing Gelatin
  49. RobinG says:

    BIBI ADMITS ISRAELI FORCES ACTIVE IN SYRIA

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu admitted for the first time Tuesday that Israeli forces have been operating in Syria, where the Iran-backed regime is battling rebels including ISIS.

    “We occasionally carry out operations in Syria to prevent that country from becoming a front against us,” Netanyahu told reporters during a visit to northern Israel.

    “We also do everything to prevent weapons, particularly lethal ones, being moved from Syria to Lebanon,” he added.

    Netanyahu did not provide further details and his comments were the first public recognition that Israel has been active in conflict-riddled Syria.

    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/12/01/Israel-admits-forces-operating-in-war-hit-Syria.html

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  50. @another fred

    The point about the dancing Israelis is not that they celebrated, rather that they had foreknowledge of the event.

  51. @Aaron Gross

    LoL! Splattered my keyboard at the military termites!

  52. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I remarked to my family that I believed it dangerous to air such video, as the emotional climate was such as it amounted to mob incitement. As Glenn Greenwald put it in his recent Intercept article, “the post-9/11 climate in the U.S. was dangerous for Muslims, and had the U.S. president ignored the potential for mindless vengeance against a small and marginalized minority, or worse, had he stoked it, some extremely ugly and terrorizing sentiments could easily have been unleashed.”

    There was an attempt to use 9/11, the images of Middle East Muslims cheering, and anthrax attacks to initiate the attack on Iraq. The first person sent anthrax in 10/2001 was Bob Stevens, photo editor at AMI in Boca Raton, FL. AMI published a large glossy magazine a week or two after 9/11 and included large, multi-page photos of Arabs in the Middle East cheering. The magazine special edition was at many supermarkets thoughtout the U.S. I bought one. I was shocked when I saw the photos of the Arabs cheering and thought it was a little un-PC. Shortly after this Bob Stevens, the photo editor for this magazine production, was targeted with anthrax and died. The message in the threats was stupid Islamic threats. The handwriting on the envelope was block-like and slanted down to the left, indicating it was written by someone whose language goes from right to left (Semitic, e.g., Arabic or Hebrew), and whose letters are boxy (Hebrew). There were attempts to link it to Saddam Hussein because it contained bentonite, specific to Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program. This turned out to be bogus. When the investigation stalled and people were beginning to wonder who was really behind this and for what purpose, Barbara Rosenberg steps up and provides us with scapegoat Steven Hatfill. After years of calumny and suspicion against Hatfill, he was able to prove that he had nothing to do with the attacks (at least enough proof to win defamation lawsuits). So then Bruce Ivins is credited with the attack, after the FBI gaslights him and he takes his own life. Ivins colleagues believe he had nothing to do with the anthrax letters. The Chief of Bacteriology at Ft. Detrick said the lab did not have the equipment to make the anthrax spores in 2001. The head of the UN’s inspection team of Iraq’s biological weapons program said Ivins couldn’t have produced it. Doesn’t matter, we must believe Ivins did it and Michelangschlomo at Urban Moving Systems was innocent. But it turns out that it was not necessary to destroy a couple dozen lives to start a war. Two years later they got their wish and this time the yellow cake propaganda worked. The U.S. spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives to destroy one of Israel’s non-aggressing but potential enemies.

  53. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:

    Israelis are an ‘other’ with their own rational interests. These do not include flooding our nations with third worlders nor do they include us going to war in Afghanistan. I have no doubt that they try to influence us to support them in their endless struggle with the Palestinians but nor do I blame them.

    9/11 neither furthered their interests nor diminished them. I imagine that many Israelis would have been secretly ecstatic if Palestinians had done 9/11 and I imagine that they could have assumed that Palestinians did it because Israelis have Palestinians on the mind.

    To be fair to them, that’s hardly an inhuman emotion.

    Basically we just need to openly recognise where they’re coming from and deal with them accordingly. We do not need to construct absurd conspiracy theories nor listen to the billion Muslims desperate to have us believe in them. They also have their own interests and due to their greater proximity with us, in Europe at least, they have more conflicting interests.

    These points are not hard to understand. They are just standard realism with a dose of knowledge of humanity.

    It makes zero sense for Israelis to blow up the twin towers and then frame an Afghan based movement. Not only because the risks are tremendous and it is utterly immoral and difficult to do but because they did not benefit.

    This is my last post on this because I need to stop letting it waste my time but please stop letting this nonsense issue waste yours!

    • Replies: @Ivan
    , @Bill Jones
  54. @Anonymous

    ” . . . The deputy commissioner of the NYPD, John Miller, is married to Emily Helen Altschul, daughter of banking mogul and Goldman Sachs Group partner Arthur Goodhart Altschul. Alas, the world of finance ultimately controls everything, including law, policing, foreign policy, intelligence, et al.”

    If Deputy Commissioner Miller’s law enforcement obligations conflicted with covering for Israeli perfidy, what would he do, given his marital ties? . . .

  55. Mr. Blank says:

    I don’t know anything about “dancing Israelis,” but I clearly remember seeing footage of dancing, celebrating Muslims on my TV screen early during the 9/11 attacks — footage which was quickly pulled and which I’ve never seen since.

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @X
  56. @Mark Green

    “Further, it must be acknowledged that many of the key investigators on the 9/11 Commission had either strong, personal ties to the State of Israel, or long and close affiliations with Israel’s lobby inside the United States. This inevitable bias is also applicable to many of America’s top news and entertainment executives. Thus, the thundering silence from NY to Hollywood over 911′s lingering ‘mysteries.’”

    I’d say this is irrefutable.

  57. Kiza says:
    @Aaron Gross

    That is so funny. The spelling correction Hasbara moron brigade is on the march. It is thermite not termite. But thermite works like a military brigade of steel eating termites, so I was not far off. I wonder who planted thermite or termite?

    Maybe it had something to do with the dual citizen owner of the twin towers, who picked up a nice and tidy couple of billions of dollars in insurance for the buildings he would have had to demolish at his own huge expense (due to steel fatigue), or with Israeli students who rented a part of the building and stacked it up with strange cardboard boxes? Or with … lots of other things which point towards Israel, not only the Dancing Shlomos.

  58. Rurik says:

    More than fourteen years later it is perhaps past time to reveal what exactly the FBI knew and currently knows about both the scale and modus operandi of Israeli espionage in the United States.

    why Mr. G? It’s fourteen years, not a hundred and forty. Most all the players and criminals are still alive. Many are still entrenched in positions of power. I would think now more than ever we the people of the world should demand a real investigation.

    I don’t even think it’s too late for a proper criminal investigation into the assassination of JFK. There’s people still alive today that certainly know something.

    Did Israel have critical intelligence either in broad outline or possibly in specific detail about 9/11 and let it happen …?”

    at the very least. There’s no way Larry Silverstien didn’t know what was happening and was necessarily and obviously complicit. And he’s bestest buddies with Bibi. They talk on the phone weekly.

    if nothing is done to hold these people to account, and they’re able to not just get away with it all, but to profit massively (Silverstien made billions off this case of ‘Jewish lightning’ and Bibi got the USA dupes to fight his wars for him), then what’s to stop them from doing it again? Perhaps even bigger next time

  59. Kiza says:
    @Mr. Blank

    Yes, there were some Muslims who danced but not in New York or anywhere in the US. What does this prove? That the US is not popular in the ME. Wow, what a discovery. You deserve a Nobel Peace Prize for the insight.

  60. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    Oh Phil, I keep waiting for you to tell us what really happened in that “accidental” Afghan hospital bombing.

    This post is pathetic. U R circling the drain.

    @Robert Rediger, There were sporadic celebrations, mostly in the West Bank & Jerusalem, but I really don’t know of major outbursts. In Iran they lit candles for us. They were very sympathetic.

  61. Art says:

    An aside:

    I am finished with Trump. My first reaction to him was that he was too thin skinned to be president. Then I wavered. I began to think that he really could get America on the right economic path.

    Now, beside being thin skinned, I think that he is mean spirited and that he is way too wrapped up in money. His attack on the man with a deformed arm and his demand that CNN give him $5,000,000 are both beyond the pale.

    His blanket attack on Muslims just cannot be. Fox-n-Krauthammer aside, the most powerful man on the planet cannot disparage 1,500,000,000 people. it would bring no end of trouble.

    Enough! He does not represent me.

  62. Unzerker says:

    In my country, the Netherlands, Muslims did celebrate the Twin Tower attacks. It was quickly put under the rug. I’m old enough to remember, though.

    So what’s your excuse to not remember the celebrations being done by the Muslims in your country? Too young? Early dementia?

    Here’s a reminder:

    https://youtu.be/pAR9T5ttXic?t=29s

    • Replies: @Hrw-500
  63. rod1963 says:

    Military termites, that’s rich. It’s par for the course with these truthers.

    Just like that “nano thermite” they keep on about but can’t produce any and label anyone in the demolition trade as in on the conspiracy who contradicts them.

    I’m sure in time they’ll migrate to the Jews spraying LME agents on the WTC girders.

    BTW thermite doesn’t eat through steel, it’s not a acid – it melts it. It’s too bad truthers are dolts when it comes to basics of metalworking.

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  64. Kiza says:
    @rod1963

    Ha, ha, ha. The Hasbara brigade demands that you watch the spelling and especially that you stay away from a figurative language. They are so dumb that they only understand literal things – if it melts that is not eat-though. Well, maybe one day the Hasbara will invent something that eats through steel when Israel wants to prove their point. In the mean time, melt through will have the same effect as eat through.

    This military grade thermite used on WTC was identified based on the research by European laboratories and published in reputable scientific magazines. Or maybe Shlomos were using it to light up their cigarettes.

    What a bunch of aggressive morons you are.

  65. Thirdeye says:
    @Tervel

    Agree that there are serious questions that need to be answered vis possible prior knowledge of the 9/11 plot by Israeli intelligence and how far that knowledge may have penetrated. Unfortunately, the conversation always gets hijacked by fruitcakes advocating nonsense like the demolition theory or the ordered-by-Israel theory, who really do belong on the yellow sites. But little instances like the Dancing Israelis really do suggest that somebody close to the source knew and got excited enough to blab about it.

    If Mossad operatives were acting in a manner that indicated foreknowledge of the attacks, or disseminating such foreknowledge to someone who could repeat it on Odigo instant messaging, it speaks of poor discipline under the needs-to-know principle. The five Israelis killed in the WTC attack were apparently not privileged to such information. Maybe the “art students” recruited to spy on Muslims were a less professional, nuttier bunch than those who spy on the US government.

  66. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @rod1963

    He wrote, “That was termite, military grade.” I think he meant “thermite”, not “termite”. I think it was just a misspelling.

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  67. Rurik says:

    It’s par for the course with these truthers.

    I like the way you say ‘truthers’ rod like it’s a bad thing

    but then, let’s examine the kind of mind that considers the quest for the truth as absurd, shall we?

    first what to call them.. perhaps ‘believer’ is suitable

    what the believers believe is that the BBC’s and other news outlets reporting on building seven plopping into its basement before it did was just a coincidence! It’s no different than the Isreali agents having their camera’s set up to “document” the first plane hitting the tower.

    serendipitous perhaps you nay say, but obviously nothing to worry about. And anyone who does is a crazy and likely dangerous whacko!

    really, there’s so many obvious, prima facia evidence that this whole thing was set up by men like Dov Zakheim and so many others that deliberating with these believers is pointless- unless to show them how blatantly asinine their defense of the official story actually is. So I’d just leave it at the advance reporting of the collapse of building seven, and say that there is unequivocally no way in this world or the next that those news sites made that call by accident that turned out to be a coincidence. To believe such a thing is to suspend all rational thought and logic and disregard video evidence of the glaringly obvious.

    These believers are necessarily either monumentally stupid or calculatingly dishonest, and if the later, apologists for the worst betrayal I can think of in human history, since it has been Americans like the ones who were slaughtered on those planes and in those towers who have supported Israel with untold sacrifices of blood and treasure, only to have that gift returned by such an act of treachery and betrayal as to numb the very soul.

    I’m sorry. I have to sigh and consider the weight of all of this from time to time. It is quite a burden to come to realize the things people do to each other and why. It taxes me. Perhaps it is better off sticking one’s head in the sand..

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @colinjames
  68. Svigor says:

    Israelis are an ‘other’ with their own rational interests. These do not include flooding our nations with third worlders nor do they include us going to war in Afghanistan.

    I know it’s impossible for many retards to understand this, but I’ll try again, for the thousandth time: Israel is BFFs with diaspora Jewry, and diaspora Jewry is BFFs with Israel. Diaspora Jewry sees it as in their best interests to dilute and make polyglot European countries against the day their populations inevitably wake up to collective Jewish malfeasance, for the umpteenth time. Ergo, Israel is no babe in the woods when it comes to open borders. They’re complicit in, and benefit from, diaspora Jewry’s malfeasance. Which is why the phony “right wing” (actually Jewish Supremacist) in Israel says nothing about the open borders destroying the West.

    As for Afghanistan, yes, it benefits Israel for the US to be stomping all over the MENA, crushing Muslim regimes that refuse to knuckle under, just as America maintaining a strong military and an aggressive, adventuristic foreign policy benefits Israel. This is not rocket science.

    9/11 neither furthered their interests nor diminished them.

    Horseshit.

    TL;DR-ed the rest of your idiocy.

  69. Svigor says:

    Jews are, in the aggregate, neither leftist, nor rightist, only faux leftist and faux rightist. Jews are simply Jewish Supremacist. These things mean no more to them than strategy and tactics mean anything to generals. In some theaters, you take a defensive posture. In others, an offensive one. Sometimes you use guerrilla tactics and non-conventional forces, sometimes you use conventional.

    Leftist and rightist are just tactics to Jews, each being used where most beneficial to the Tribe.

  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @rod1963

    Dr. Niels Harrit is a retired associate professor of chemistry at the University of Copenhagen and one among an international team of scientists who published a paper in The Open Chemical Physics Journal on the discovery of nano-thermite in the dust from the World Trade Center collapses on 9/11.

    • Replies: @Gordon Samuels
  71. @Kiza

    Tell us more of how even military grade termites could level a steel and concrete skyscraper.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  72. Art says:

    For what it is worth.

    In May of 2001, by presidential order, Cheney was handed direct control of all wargame and drill operations. This meant he was solely in charge of the overlapping NORAD drills and wargames on the morning of 9/11, that prevented Standard Operating Procedure from being implemented, and any of the hijacked planes being intercepted.

    http://www.911myths.com/html/cheney_in_charge_of_norad.html

    • Replies: @annamaria
  73. Trelane says:
    @Colinjames

    What’s the melting point of steel? What’s the maximum combustion temperature obtained in an atmosphere of 21% oxygen at 1 bar of pressure? Paul Craig Roberts calls it an “energy deficit”.

    • Replies: @Trelane
  74. The fact that the media (which is almost entirely Jewish-owned) castigates Trump for anti-Muslim comments while simultaneously pushing a Zionist line is no more dissonant than the fact that Jewish groups in Europe advocate increased Muslim immigration while simultaneously supporting Israel.

    To the extent that OBL was a CIA asset, and the fact that Afghanistan served other geopolitical interests (besides opening the door to wars for Israel’s benefit) is probably why Palestinians as such weren’t fingered for the crime (easier to blame a rich, connected Saudi who is never intended to be apprehended than an occupied people living in poverty).

    BTW it’s more accurate to say the buildings experienced free-fall *acceleration*, not speed. This free-fall acceleration indicates there was no upward resistance from the floors below (as Newton’s Laws would hold), hence the standard claim that “pancaking” successively weakened lower structures is bunk.

    • Replies: @Jean Cocteausten
  75. Trelane says:
    @Trelane

    Steel melts at around 1500C and the maximum combustion temperature obtained in earth’s surface atmosphere is about 1300C. The Iron Age experts of 3200 years ago knew that steel wont melt in a normally ventilated fire. The fires in WTC2 exhibit evidence of a high temperature accelerant (HTA) fire. HTA fires are always arsons.

    • Replies: @Thirdeye
  76. Kiza says:
    @OldeVirginian

    Not me, ask your Hasbara friends moron.

  77. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Colinjames

    Thanks for posting the great video Colinjames. I started off at the 14 min mark to see the part about the dancing Israelis but after I watched that section, I ended up starting from the beginning and watched the whole thing. I thought it extremely well done. I liked that he went after the misinformation videos like that Loose Change garbage and all the other assorted con-men. I also liked that he used tons of evidence to support the video like his use of Sibel Edmonds, the courageous FBI whistleblower whom Mr. Giraldi has previously written about, whose story should be especially relevant and significant to people in lieu of all that is going on with Turkey nowadays. Thanks again and I’ll be suggesting that video to others because it’s hard to find docs that deal with such a serious matter in such a thorough way.

    • Replies: @Junior
    , @colinjames
  78. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    You had me laughing for a good 5 minutes. Hell, I’m STILL laughin. That was a good one. Set’em up and Jus’ Sayin’ll knock’em down! Thanks for brightening up my day :)

  79. Biff says:

    For those commentators who believe that Israeli’s had former knowlege of the attacks you are most likely right. Who else had former knowlege? Probably a full three quarters of New York’s taxi drivers.
    I remember reading about on taxi driver being detained because he gave a ride to a federal employee on sept 10 telling her of an immenent attack the next day. He was realeased after authorities realized that prior knowlege was common among taxi drivers.

  80. @Beefcake the Mighty

    The stack got bigger and more massive with each floor it crashed through. So it blew through the remaining floors faster and faster. The stack would accelerate even if every floor took the same amount of energy to tear loose.

  81. Thirdeye says:
    @Trelane

    A full load of jet fuel is a high temperature accelerant.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  82. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Junior

    significant to people in lieu of all that is going on with Turkey nowadays

    Meant to say in light of

  83. @Jean Cocteausten

    The top floors would have received resistance from the bottom floor, even if they crushed it, and hence decelerated, not fallen with free-fall rate of change, which is what was observed.

  84. Clyde says:
    @This Is Our Home

    How dare you try to bring these cuckoo posters down to earth and down to reality! Idiot chile Obama blames everything on global warming while Giraldi’s groupies blame everything on the Jews. Those Jewish-Zionist mind rays are turned on 24-7, frying every Muslim and Christian brain on this planet. No Muslim or Christian has agency because there are always Zio-Jews pulling their strings.

    BTW My take is Mr Giraldi is only half serious here but decided to toss out some red meat to the anti-Zio base. All bloggers do this from time to time.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Rurik
  85. RobinG says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Termite can be defeated with Driver Army.
    “…soldier termites spring into action, slicing their smaller opponents in half with a snap of their powerful jaws.”

    http://theantroom.blogspot.com/2007/11/master-of-killer-ants-on-nova-next.html

  86. Rurik says:
    @Clyde

    Zionist mind rays

    heh

  87. Homo Giraldi still beating this dead horse.

    Guess what, this story is old news. Everybody has heard about it and it actually got decent airplay on Fox in the immediate aftermath of the attack. American’s know and THEY DON’T CARE.

    They don’t care about some dancing Israeli idiots on 9-11, they don’t care that we have expelled hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from the Land of Israel and they don’t care about the the Arabs we kill by the thousands whenever war breaks out. It’s not they they don’t know, they do. They just don’t care about the Palestinians, the Syrians, the Iranians or any Muslims for that matter, and nothing you say or do can ever change that.

    And even if you somehow got them to care, which you won’t, what of it? We’d still have over 80 nuclear warheads with the ability to assemble another 80 tomorrow if we so wanted. We have a larger technological and industrial base than the entire Arab-Islamic world combined. Soon the remnants of the Palestinians will be dead or expelled and then we will begin expanding into the rest of the Lands that were promised to us. And the world will just yawn and go back to watching soccer. You, of course, will still be babbling in the Unz comment sections, likewise doing nothing to stop us.

    So go out an adopt an Arab baby. They are an endangered species who won’t be around much longer. Enjoy the time you have remaining with them.

  88. […] “The Dancing Israelis”  One commentator referred to ‘termite, military grade’, which wins today’s prize. […]

  89. Ivan says:
    @This Is Our Home

    The degree of coordination and subsequent radio silence, required to carry out a conspiracy of this magnitude, is beyond human abilities. This would be the equivalent of many hundreds of Reichstag Fires. There may have been some foreknowledge on the part of various agencies, if only because the WTC had already been a target before, and the Phillipines had informed the Americans that according to their interrogations, Arab terrorists were considering using airplanes as guided missiles to bring down buildings.

  90. @alexander

    Prior knowledge and failure to tell the police does not make a person an accessory to the crime at common law. The ethics/morality is obviously arguable depending on your moral premises/assumptions.

    On the facts: setting up a movie camera might take very little time at all. It is only if it was set up facing the twin towers before the first tower was hit that the timing would be significant.

    The high fiving might be more than you would expect of callous movie makers who have just scored some saleable footage but it isn’t what you’d expect of professionals in the intelligence business or even sidekicks who were at a level to have been let in on the great conspiracy or knowledge of others’ conspiracy.

    Clearly noisy demonstrative filming of the event in a public place was no part of any Mossad plan or one it was monitoring. OK they may have been let down by amateurs which led to quick smart departure of their handlers. Even so, it is hard to believe that there was any precise knowledge by Mossad, or the Israeli government, of what was being planned, let alone any anticipation that some 3000 people were going to be killed, that the twin towers would collapse after being struck high up by aircraft or that large numbers of well connected Jews in financial firms were going to die because of actions that Israel could have prevented.

    That’s not to say that Mossad didn’t know a lot more than the FBI and didn’t anticipate with satisfaction a terrorist outrage by ME Muslims which would further Israel’s interest in moving the US to military action. But that doesn’t even get you all the way to PG’s suspicions.

    • Replies: @alexander
  91. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Brilliant article.

    First time since 911 we can read the full version of this affair.

    Thank you gain.

  92. X says:
    @Mr. Blank

    Typical Murican thinkin’

    “I saws it on TV, therefore it has to be true!”

    Product of the no tard left behind school system, oy vey

  93. alexander says:
    @Mark Green

    Dear Mr Green,

    In your statement you suggest that the official 9-11 commission report fails to include any investigation of the collapse of building number 7.

    Is that true?

    If it is, has anyone asked the commission why building number 7 was not investigated and what its rationale was for excluding it ?

    It is , after all , a pretty big building to miss.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  94. Moi says:
    @Colinjames

    The Zio mind is a wondrously twisted thing.

    • Replies: @colinjames
  95. geokat62 says:
    @Mark Green

    Oddly, the Commission that was created to officially investigate the details of 9/11 did not examine Building 7′s unique collapse. Curious, that.

    Nothing odd about it, at all. The 9/11 Commission was not tasked to officially investigate the details of any of the three towers that collapsed that day, 1 WTC, 2 WTC, 7 WTC. That investigation was left to NIST, National Institute of Standards and Technology, which indeed investigated the details of the collapse of all three buildings, including 7 WTC.

    btw – when I did a search of 7 WTC in the official 9/11 Commission Report, it came back with five hits.

    • Replies: @Wally
  96. @Quartermaster

    I have seen an account which seemed plausible. It was all about the critical temperature being reached in the steel frame and that took most of the day in the absence of great quantities of aviation fuel carried into the heart of the building.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    , @Bill Jones
  97. alexander says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Mr Oz,

    Let me take your argument about ” prior knowledge” not functioning as an” accessory “to the crime, and place it in a future circumstance to see if it has merit.

    Lets assume a terrorist attack is planned on the “freedom tower” exactly two months from now…If an individual or group of individuals have knowledge of the impending attack but choose not to inform the FBI, you are seriously trying to tell me they are NOT functioning” accessories” by aiding and abetting the enemy “to allow” the attack to take place. ?

    Are you “actually” saying that , Mr Oz ?

    Are there any law enforcement, or counter terrorism experts out there who can set the record straight on this ?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  98. geokat62 says:
    @Greasy WIlliam

    Soon the remnants of the Palestinians will be dead or expelled and then we will begin expanding into the rest of the Lands that were promised to us. And the world will just yawn and go back to watching soccer. You, of course, will still be babbling in the Unz comment sections, likewise doing nothing to stop us.

    I commend you for speaking the truth, Greasy William. You are one of the few who does so.

    So GW has dropped the gauntlet. What should be the response? Do we continue babbling or do we march?

  99. Long before Sept 11 2001 attacks—1996–Israel Firsters proposed to Bill Clinton–7 middle East countries need to be destroyed. Wake up fools.
    Any bets–Donald Trump will appoint Dick Cheney as Vice President in 2016

  100. A year later, two Israelis were arrested at an odd hour in an empty moving truck outside a navy airbase in Washington state. Bomb dogs detected residue.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/05/13/police-seize-rental-truck-with-tnt-traces.html

    Sent home, nothing to see here.

    I have personally seen Americans dancing whenever they see American bombs destroying buildings in Arab nations. Is something wrong with them?

  101. @Hugo First

    I have no idea what you are referring to, but there are a number of countries that from which Anthrax could have been obtained. Thermite is a much different kettle of fish, and the handling requirements of the stuff would get a casual user killed. Thermite grenades were something the Navy uses to destroy classified radio transmitters if a ship is to be abandoned to shallow waters. You simply pull the pin, allow the spoon to release and place it on the highest transmitter in the stack. It will burn through the transmitters and the hull of the ship as well. You can’t put it out either. Thermite as the agent for destruction of the two towers is completely implausible as it would have required a massive amount of the stuff to bring down one tower, much less two. That’s about as plausible as believing explosive charges were built into the structure as one loon ball thought.

  102. @Wizard of Oz

    For the twin towers that works. I’m satisfied that the fuel fires fed by the aircraft fuel tanks were enough to bring down the towers (I’m a Civil Engineer). Building 7 is a much different kettle of fish. I have seen no reason why that came down. It was not hit by the aircraft that hit the twin towers.

    Little has been said about Building 7, however. You may know something I don’t, but I haven’t heard there was a fire in that building.

  103. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Thermite will burn through steel. See my earlier response on the matter. To do what a Thermite Grenade will do to a steel hull, however, requires long exposure from something like a thermite grenade. It would require massive amounts of very hard to handle thermite to have brought those buildings down. The Jet A the aircraft carried as fuel would, however, do the job with the length of exposure we saw.

  104. @Hugo First

    And I would add that the anthrax attacks were very a very important part of the over-all false-flag attack of 9/11. And as you correctly stated the military grade anthrax used to terrorize the general population and the Nano-thermite used to bring down all three high-rises in their own foot-prints at free-fall acceleration were both developed and perfected in US military laboratories. So, although numerous and varied details of the operation will never be known, it should be obvious to anyone of average intelligence who master-minded the entire affair and has since provided the necessary cover-up, including the official but transparently bogus 9/11 Investigation conducted by the US government.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Quim
  105. @Tervel

    That there were Israelis in this country that celebrated has been known for quite some time. There are also Mossad agents in this country, just we have agents in Israel. I firmly believe Mossad knew what was being planned and said nothing to us about it. Just as with the attack on the Liberty, the Israelis really aren’t our friends, although they have been dependent upon us for aid and military equipment.

    And, no, I don’t think our foreign policy is owned by the Israelis or the Israel lobby. It has been in our interest to support them. We get drawn into certain conflicts because of the incompetency of so much of the foreign policy establishment. We’ve seen this off and on throughout my adult life. Carter, Clinton, and Obama have been pretty egregious on this count. Bush I gave us the first Iraq because of an idiot in one of our embassies and Saddam thought we were his friend because of our support during the Iran-Iraq war.

  106. The lawsuit mentioned was a interesting ruse; one of the many weapons in the Israeli lawfare arsenal. There was never any intention on the part of the plaintiffs to prosecute the lawsuit. The purpose was the publicity the filing of the suit garnered and the conclusions drawn by the untrained public ( No guilty party would ever file a suit against his accuser. The trial would only reinforce his guilt. The Israeli plaintiffs must therefore be innocent of any wrongdoing) . You see, the lawsuit was filed, but the papers were never served and the suit did not go to court. But for a three dollar certified mail fee and five minutes at the post office, the lawsuit evaporated.

  107. @alexander

    You remind me of the frustrations counsel (or member of a committee of inquiry) suffer when confronted by a “non-responsive” witness. They, like you , refuse to talk about the same subject matter as their legally qualified interlocutors .

    You have effectually refused to engage with me by pretending – even putting them in quotes, though used eccentrically – that that I have “made an argument” about prior knowledge “not functioning as” an accessory to the crime. I find it difficult to know how to engage with someone who invokes the technical legal concept of an accessory (scil. before the fact) to a felony but hasn’t bothered to look it up for himself and uses nonsensical language about it.

    Really it is quite simple. Not disclosing knowledge of a crime someone is about to commit .might amount to a tort – a civil wrong – or even a breach of contract or a fiduciary duty but is not regarded by the common law as aiding and abetting, or inciting, so as to make the person an accessory to a felony.

    You may find someone with knowledge of some American state law or even a federal statute which redefines “accessory” – or you could try an internet search for such local variation of the common law – but I doubt that you will.

    • Replies: @alexander
  108. @Quartermaster

    I think you might want to qualify your postulate of foreknowledge by the Israelis because you don’t sound like those cranks with little sense of probability who could imagine high level Israel government people standing back in silence if they had any idea if the magnitude of the damage and death toll that would result.

  109. Marais says:

    Asked tonight what the attack meant for relations between the United States and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied, ”It’s very good.” Then he edited himself: ”Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.” He predicted that the attack would ”strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we’ve experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.”

    In an appearance late tonight, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon repeatedly placed Israel on the same ground as the United States, calling the assault an attack on ”our common values” and declaring, ”I believe together we can defeat these forces of evil.” He declared Wednesday a day of mourning.

    Uzi Landau, Israel’s minister for public security, said that the government had never imagined an assault of this size, let alone had its intelligence network gleaned any warning of its approach. He sounded astounded. ”We had a number of different scenarios for large terrorist attack,” he said in a telephone interview tonight. ”But this particular concerted offensive against the United States, targeting the World Trade buildings, at the same time hitting Washington — this we didn’t consider.”

    -James Bennet ‘A Day of Terror: The Israelis; Spilled Blood Is Seen as Bond That Draws 2 Nations Closer’ New York Times 11 Sep 2001

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/12/us/day-terror-israelis-spilled-blood-seen-bond-that-draws-2-nations-closer.html

  110. @Quartermaster

    I’ve found the UK Daily Mail report that I had particularly in mind by Googling “how did the fire start in WTC7″. It shows that somehow fires started early and the collapse occurred at 5.12pm supporting the view that what was required was application of heat for a long time. I would be intrrested to know what you think.

  111. alexander says:
    @Greasy WIlliam

    Wow Mr Greasy,

    So the plan , take all their “living space”and exterminate.?

    Hmmmm

    It looks like you have “the final solution” for the Palestinian ” problem” just about all fleshed out.

    But if nobody “cares” , as you say, why wait for war as a pretext for ‘extermination” ?

    Why not just get the ball rolling right now?

    How many Palestinians do you plan to exterminate, Mr Greasy, ….the whole lot ?

    That’s quite a few….what is that…. six million, seven million Palestinians slated for extermination?

    That seems like an awful lot of dead bodies you will have to contend with Mr Greasy…a real logistical problem …No?

    Maybe you can do “mass graves” to cut down on the amount of living space used up by proper burials ?

    Or maybe “cremation”. Mr Greasy ?…did you think about that ?

    Industrial scale crematoriums might do the job quite well, don’t ya think?

    Working day and night.

    Six million Palestinians….Wow….those are going to be some big ovens….No ,Mr Greasy?

    Maybe you can use the steam from all that” cooking”…to power your desalinization plants and who knows….Maybe .Jodi Rudoren can do a smashing expose” for the New York Times on Israels outstanding contribution to green energy technology ….

    On top of all that “clean” water you’ve created…. you’ve cut down the entire Palestinian population’s “Carbon Foot Print” by 96 percent !

    Should be a hit so long as no one calls it “Soylent Green” technology….

    that might be construed as a little…… “unfair”.

    No , Mr Greasy?

  112. @Irish Savant

    I think its a slightly unfair inference. Giraldi is simply saying we can’t know more until critical intel is released and / or a more serious investigative effort is attempted. As such, I’m quite satisified with Mr. Giraldi at least attempting to shed light on this issue, however “coy” it might be perceived.

  113. geokat62 says:
    @Carroll Price

    … the anthrax attacks were very a very important part of the over-all false-flag attack of 9/11.

    Here’s a comment I previously posted here at UR:

    Speaking of “Still a whodunit and nobody cares anymore,” whatever happened to the investigation into the Anthrax attacks?

    The letters containing anthrax that were sent to Senators Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle, (both had been attempting to slow the passage of the USA PATRIOT Act), read:

    09-11-01
    YOU CAN NOT STOP US.
    WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX.
    YOU DIE NOW.
    ARE YOU AFRAID?
    DEATH TO AMERICA.
    DEATH TO ISRAEL.
    ALLAH IS GREAT.

    It’d be fascinating to get a glimpse of the Mossad’s “to do” list!

    • Replies: @schmenz
  114. geokat62 says:
    @Quartermaster

    And, no, I don’t think our foreign policy is owned by the Israelis or the Israel lobby. It has been in our interest to support them.

    This contradicts the main thesis of M&W in The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. Why don’t you provide us with a quick summary of where you think the two professors fell short?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  115. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @Mark Green

    The truth regarding 9/11 has no doubt been stated, but most people, including me, wouldn’t be able to identify it as such even if we heard it (and many of us may not have).

    The matter will never be settled, any more than the explosion of the Hindenburg (in 1937) or a thousand other such (incendiary, most of them) matters ever will be.

    Every explanation, including the correct one, is a conspiracy theory. Most truths, most errors, and most lies always are. You have a wide choice of what to believe, if you dare, or manage to, believe anything truly explanatory.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  116. @alexander

    The WTC 7 ‘report’ was undertaken later, sort of like an ‘ok, so we can’t get away with ignoring that’ footnote … where it was decided a single column failed and that’s why the entire structure fell in its footprint.

    They could just as easily say the United States government believes in virgin birth [certainly true at the Pentagon and largely true in the halls of Congress] and then have NASA report the moon is made of green cheese and if you have mainstream media will ignore it, it’d work just as well.

    • Replies: @alexander
  117. […] Source: The Dancing Israelis – The Unz Review […]

  118. annamaria says:
    @Quartermaster

    “… knew what was being planned and said nothing to us about it..”

    There was nobody to listen. When the warnings were delivered, the W administration paid no attention. What else one could expect from the incompetent, sycophants, and psychopaths that make the core of the US government? The well-connectedness and money are no warranty for decency and competence. It is worth remembering that Bush the lesser was appointed by the conservative activist-judges.

    August 6, 2001: Bush Receives Briefing Titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US”

    “The 9/11 Commission will later state that after the now famous “bin Laden Determined to Strike in US” memo is given to President Bush on August 6, 2001, “We have found no indication of any further discussion before September 11 among the president and his top advisers of the possibility of a threat of an al-Qaeda attack in the United States.” By the way, there’s a credible case that the president’s own negligence prior to 9/11 at least in part contributed to the disaster in the first place.… [I]n the summer of 2001, the government ignored repeated warnings by the CIA, ignored, and didn’t do anything to harden our border security, didn’t do anything to harden airport country, didn’t do anything to engage local law enforcement, didn’t do anything to round up INS and consular offices and say we have to shut this down, and didn’t warn the American people..”

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a080601ranchmemo#a080601ranchmemo

    http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/

  119. alexander says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Dear Mr Oz,

    If , as you keep insisting, that having “prior knowledge” of a pending terrorist attack and Not acting on it to stop it …is not aiding and abetting the enemy…. or acting as an accessory to the “crime,” ….. then why is it considered “material support for terrorism” under U.S. federal law ?

    UNITED STATES FEDERAL STATUTES ON TERRORISM

    8.U.S.C.1182

    “on material support for terrorism”

    “Section VI (BB) ” To any individual who the actor knows, or reasonably should know, has committed or has plans to commit a terrorist activity.”

    Mr Oz , If you are so intent on expressing your legal savvy on what does and does not constitute aiding “terrorists…why not pull up the statute on it ?

    And why are you so concerned in protecting individuals who may have had prior knowledge of the pending attacks on the world trade center and chose not to do everything in their power to stop this horrible tragedy by notifying the FBI or the police ?

    Isn’t that what you would do?

  120. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Kike-n-vermin is virulent and must be defeated but it will be a long struggle or hopefully JC will make a second coming and send them all to hades.

  121. alexander says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    So the official report states that the building collapsed due to “column failure “?

    Does it say why the column or columns failed….or just that (it)they did ?

    I have never read much on building number 7…so I don’t know.

  122. schmenz says:
    @geokat62

    Yes, I remember the words in that letter, too. Pretty amateur stuff which, of course, I didn’t believe for a second.

  123. @RobinG

    NuttyYahoo admits that (gasp!) Israeli forces are in Syria. What can I say? I’m simply underwhelmed.

  124. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “If Donald Trump wants to pillory fictional celebrating Muslims it is perhaps appropriate that he begin to take note of the actual celebrating Israelis who were caught in the act on 9/11.”

    You’ll spot flying unicorns long before you’ll hear Trump say any such thing. He’s an Israel Firster all the way. He’s never made any bones about it.

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  125. I am in possession of a smoking gun for the 9/11 attacks. The entire Twin Towers event is disclosed at https://sites.google.com/site/doculeaks/executive-docs. The “letters” should be read first, and then the “’97 diagrams” and then everything else. A set of codes hidden within a work of scholarship published in 1997 in Lanham, Maryland, shows a clear blueprint for the World Trade Center demolitions. This material was sent out to many beginning in 2004. The question is, why is no newspaper responding to the evidence?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  126. tbraton says:

    PG, true to form, Bill O’Reilly had a segment on last night dealing with Trump’s assertion that there were thousands of Muslims in NJ celebrating the fall of the Twin Towers on 9/11, and guess what? No mention at all about the “dancing Israelis.” BTW O’Reilly’s guest tonight will be Donald Trump himself.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  127. @alexander

    Here’s what the architects have to say:

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    • Replies: @alexander
  128. @geokat62

    Indeed I wondered why he made the distinction given that Israeli supporting money is obviously, like other lobby groups’ money on more mundane matters, very important to individual Congressmen and even Senators. But I suppose he might say that the White House and State Department, who are the principal makeers of policy, are not bought (and Cheney and Rumsfeld didn’t need to be).

    • Replies: @geokat62
  129. @Anonymous

    Yes, it should have been treated as a probable slip of the kind or one of the kinds of which everyone is capable rather than a reflection of his command of English or plain ignorance. But why then does he seem to claim at #67 that he was consciously using the word “termite” figuratively? That’s kindergarten level excuse making.

  130. @Gordon Samuels

    I hope it does as well for you as the Da Vinci Code did for Dan Brown.

  131. […] tried to post this comment at Phil Giraldi’s column at Unz Review; twice. Both times it vanished as though I’d never attempted a post, no […]

  132. @Rurik

    Would you please give a link to the video taken by the Israeli high-fivers which shows that they recorded the first plane hitting the tower? As the timing is indeed of great importance so is your evidence of the timing.

    As to the alleged BBC anticipation of the collapse of WTC7 surely the most unlikely thing in any scenario would be that the BBC should be given advance notice by plotters who weren’t such raving nutters as to be unable to find their way even to this Comment column. Compared with that an error arising from someone being heard in the the ear piece of a stressed reporter “hang in there: you can add WTC7 coming down too before anyone else breaks it” or any one of a dozen variations is just an everyday kind of error in the experience of journalists and TV producers as I can say from proximity to the most telling experience.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Rurik
  133. geokat62 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    But I suppose he might say that the White House and State Department… are not bought

    Here’s a couple of exchanges I had with Sam Shama:

    geokat62: Further to my previous comment, as was made abundantly clear during Ron Paul’s 2012 presidential campaign, there is little chance the gatekeepers would permit a strong candidate to become either party’s presidential candidate, let alone POTUS.

    SS: … knowing fully well that all it takes is one determined POTUS to say NO firmly. I really wish that would happen.

    geokat62: As long as presidential election campaigns cost over $1B and the Lobby underwrites the bulk of those costs, there is little chance a POTUS will just say NO, firmly or otherwise.

    Surprised someone with a +7σ IQ wouldn’t know this, Sam. You wouldn’t be trying to play us dumb goy for fools, again, would you? It’s probably something that is difficult for you to resist… but really, you need to try harder.

  134. geokat62 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Would you please give a link to the video taken by the Israeli high-fivers which shows that they recorded the first plane hitting the tower? As the timing is indeed of great importance so is your evidence of the timing.

    Are you implicitly calling into question the veracity of the testimony of the eyewitness at the scene?

    Here’s how ABC news reported the story:

    Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.

    She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

    Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. “They seemed to be taking a movie,” Maria said.

    The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the expressions on the men’s faces. “They were like happy, you know … They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange,” she said.

    She found the behavior so suspicious that she wrote down the license plate number of the van and called the police. Before long, the FBI was also on the scene, and a statewide bulletin was issued on the van.

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  135. @Anonymous

    Thank you very much for this information.

  136. @Jett Rucker

    The US government’s official explanation of 9/11 is, by far, the most ridiculous conspiracy theory of them all. With the possible exception of the “nuclear bomb” trolls and the “hologram” trolls. However, these two groups are obviously working as hasbara trolls and being paid by Israel to clutter up the comment section of serious 9/11 Truth web sites with bizarre comments for the purpose of encouraging casual readers to dismiss all doubters of the government’s version as tin-hat dig-bats.

  137. @Anonymous

    Trump is indeed “an Israel Firster all the way,” and that’s why I dislike him.

  138. @alexander

    The NASA’s explanation of why Building 7 collapsed is that a single massive steel column (column 7 I believe) failed due to being heated by common office fires fueled by office furniture that would have consisted of desks, filing cabinets, carpet, note-pads, pens and pencils, telephones, and perhaps cubicle partitions made of metal frames covered with a thin, sound-absorbing material. A theory that is so ridiculous until it’s beyond laughable.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @tbraton
  139. If he had the ability to pull off some thing like 9/11 Bin Laden would have been ruling the world.Only the Israelis/Jews have the intellectual and other resources and the motivation to carry this operation.that is the empirical rality

  140. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    You have several facts wrong. I have to go to sleep so I am not going to type up what all the incorrect facts are, but here is one: You said that they were held in the Bergen County Jail? They actually were split into two groups, one group held in Passaic County Jail and another group in, I believe, Hudson County Correctional Facility. Then they were all transfered to the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, NY.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  141. Mulegino1 says:

    Hollow aluminum tubes (commercial airliners), jet fuel induced hydrocarbon based office fires, thermate or thermite – even military grade – do not possess the kinetic energy to disintegrate most of the concrete and steel components of the Twin Towers and turn them into fine powder. And no, conventional explosives do not have the power to generate underground fires which burn for months and heat orders of magnitude greater than the surface of the sun, or fires which burned for months after the Twin Towers “collapsed”. Simply put, the Towers were in all likelihood destroyed by small nuclear weapons detonated at the basement and sub basement levels.

    The “Dancing Israelis” were most likely low level Israeli assets whose task was to plant evidence implicating the “Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine” or a similar scapegoat organization, i.e., plant phony passports, box cutters, etc.

    The official tale of the commercial airliners taking down the Twin Towers is a ludicrous fantasy crafted for very low information infotainment consumers.

  142. tbraton says:
    @tbraton

    Originally, Donald Trump was scheduled to appear on the O’Reilly Factor last night, but he got usurped by the breaking story of the mass shootings in San Bernadino. There was no word about a rescheduling of Trump’s appearance, or, if there was, I missed it.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  143. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Kiza

    Wow, I knew termites were bad, but, wow! The military genetic engineers deserves cudos for developing metal munching termites! Those guys can do anything, not just anthrax.

  144. alexander says:
    @Carroll Price

    Thanks Carroll,

    Something I recall might be of interest to you.

    perhaps 18 years ago I watched a one hour documentary on, I believe, the science channel.

    The documentary was on the art of building demolitions and it took the viewer on a journey through the various stages of preparation in the collapse of a large rectangular building in a downtown area.
    What always stood out in my mind, was the high level of expertise needed to insure the building collapsed on its own footprint. the importance of getting the”explosive” sequencing just right to guarantee the building did not “tip” to the right or left damaging any of the neighboring buildings.
    After weeks of careful preparation, I recall the anticipation of the chief engineer on the day of the demolition …. his worry that even though they did everything right, checked and rechecked the sequencing…there was still a chance the building might “tip” and damage a neighboring one.

    the demolition went off and was a success.The building collapsed completely within its own footprint..after which the entire demolition crew , including the chief engineer cheered in celebration.

    I was really impressed with the science of it….and how difficult it was to insure the building collapsed in , and down ,on itself.

    This was a large rectangular building, but it was not very tall…maybe twenty five stories or so.

    Given the fact that world trade centers were among the tallest buildings in the world,and given all I had learned from that program, it seems an uncanny miracle of nature that even” one “would collapse completely within its own footprint..and not” tip.”…..a true miracle….

    The fact that” both” did….is either proof of “divine providence”-the hand of god guiding them both perfectly straight down….or the hand of something else.

    It would be very interesting to hear that chief engineer ( given all the preparations he had made to insure the outcome on the building in the program), to discuss the probability of such an outcome occurring naturally on two of the tallest buildings in the world.

    If the collapse of the world trade centers were indeed demolitions, and building number seven’s structural column would indeed “never” melt from the heat of an internal office fire…what sort of sequencing might explain the collapse of all three buildings ?

    One answer might be this…., If, in the planning of the collapse of the towers….there was a pre- awareness of the high probability, even in the best of executions, that one tower would tip…..and tip “onto” building number 7…..then having “number 7″ rigged to collapse too , shortly thereafter, makes all the sense in the world.

    The fact that twin tower number one (?) did “not” tip into building number seven, must have left “them” all scratching their heads as to…”what to do now”…..hence the decision to” just pull it”, anyway….later that afternoon….

    That would explain both number 7′s collapse” and” the BBC newscasters, accidental pre-announcement of it , while it was still standing.

    The irony that even the ” anticipatory tip” of tower number one… into building number 7, “not” occurring as planned , seems apropos of mans capacity to” flub” and perhaps too…..’Providence’s”hand in exposing it .

  145. @Wizard of Oz

    I have a machine in my basement that is specifically designed to burn jet fuel to produce the maximum possible heat.
    I have owned it for 18 years. It has yet to melt.

    You obviously blinked, and continue to do so, when the fireballs of exploding jet fuel occurred when the planes hit the buildings.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  146. tbraton says:
    @tbraton

    Well, Trump’s version of what happened on 9/11 appears to have been confirmed by Bernie Kerik, the NYC police commissioner on 9/11, and former NYC mayor Giuliani. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/12/02/kerik_trump_correct_new_york_area_muslims_were_celebrating_after_911.html

    Ironically, Chris Christie, who has been challenging Trump’s version, appears to have stepped into a little pile himself. He has clearly claimed (I saw him do so at one of the debates) that he was appointed U.S. Attorney by President GWB on September 10, 2001, a day before 9/11 (“which changed everything”). Now it appears that he wasn’t appointed until three months later, in December 2001. Oh, my! I’m shocked to discover a politician who lies.

  147. tbraton says:
    @Carroll Price

    A few weeks ago, I posted a message on another unz.com thread in which I expressed some skepticism about the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, which collapsed like the Twin Towers even though it had not been struck by any plane. A number of posters chided me for my conspiratorial ways (even though I advanced no conspiratorial theory, merely expressed skepticism), and one poster cited a link to a Popular Mechanics site which reprinted the results of a study by the National Institute of Standards and Technology issued in August 2008. I read the PM piece and found that the NIAT study advanced a third explanation which debunked the prior two explanations given for WTC No. 7′s collapse. Here are some excerpts from the PM article:

    “GAITHERSBURG, Maryland — The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released its long-awaited report on the collapse of World Trade 7 following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. “Our take-home message today is that the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery,” NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told journalists at this morning’s press conference in Gaithersburg, Md. “WTC 7 collapsed because of fires fueled by office furnishings. It did not collapse from explosives or from diesel fuel fires.” ”

    “The report clarifies a number of widely debated issues concerning the collapse, particularly the role of the building’s many diesel fuel tanks and the importance of structural damage from falling WTC 1 debris. Both of those factors have been cited by investigators as possibly contributing to the collapse; the 2006 Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can’t Stand Up to the Facts mentions both hypotheses. However, the final NIST report downplays both scenarios, concluding that the diesel fuel stored in tanks (and intended to power backup generators) did not burn long enough or hot enough to account for structural failures. And, while debris damage to WTC 7′s southern exterior was considerable (and initiated the destructive fires), the collapse originated in the northeast portion of the building. In fact, the report concludes: “Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from fires.” ” http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/

    I don’t profess to have any engineering background or knowledge, so I have no expert knowledge to bring to the table. All I have is a natural sense of skepticism, which has not been satisfied by reading the PM account of the NIST report. After all, to paraphrase a wonderful TV show called “Maverick” back in the late 50′s when I was a teenager, “if you can’t trust your federal government, who can you trust?”

    • Replies: @schmenz
  148. @Bill Jones

    I am not sure what or whose point you are adressing or what your point is.

    However let me note that aircraft engines are designed to burn aviation fuel at high temporatures without being destroyed. But that doesn’t tell me what the burning of that fuel and other material inside the outer skin of a WTC tower might do to steel girders that had been exposed. Me

    As to the WTC7 building that I was principally cincerned with, the point of the report and illustrative video that I found and referred to was that it took a fire started in the morning around 9 am over 8 hours to heat up and weaken the steel frame to the point where it collapsed.

    Your reference to your machine not melting is as irrelevant as the less than fascinating information that you have owned it for 18 years. Who has suggested that any of the steel framework in any building melted?

    Likewise your suggestion, as I understand it, that the explosion od jet fuel precluded its being the source of the heat which weakened the steel framework of WTC1 amd WTC2 is flawed as a moment’s thought would have told you. Yhe fact that some of the fuel has gone up in a single flash doesn’t mean more than precisely that, viz. that some of the fuel was no longer available to burn explosively or otherwise in the remains of the aircraft.

  149. tbraton says:

    “After all, to paraphrase a wonderful TV show called “Maverick” back in the late 50′s when I was a teenager, “if you can’t trust your federal government, who can you trust?” ”

    I realized after I posted that line that many would not understand my allusion to a TV program more than 50 years old. “Maverick” was a short-lived TV series that began in 1957 on a then-struggling ABC which spoofed the traditional western and which introduced the fine actor James Garner (29 in 1957) to the American public. I was a teenager at the time, and I fell in love with the program from the start. One of the more famous episodes was in the second season (1958) entitled “Shady Deal at Sunny Acres.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shady_Deal_at_Sunny_Acres

    [MORE]

    To quote from Wikipedia, “this 1958 second season episode depicts gambler Bret Maverick (James Garner) being swindled by a crooked banker (John Dehner) after depositing the proceeds from a late-night poker game. He then surreptitiously recruits his brother Bart Maverick (Jack Kelly) and a host of other acquaintances to mount an elaborate sting operation to recover the money.” The episode is hilarious and features two recurring lines: one by the sleazy banker who conned Maverick who said repeatedly to Maverick “if you can’t trust your banker, who can you trust?” and the second by Bret Maverick who sits on a rocking chair outside the hotel where he is staying, whittling wood and telling passersby who ask how his plan to recover his stolen money from the crooked banker is going, “I’m working on it,” to the amusement and scorn of all. Eventually, by the end of the show, Maverick has succeeded in getting his money back from the crooked banker without apparently lifting a finger and by pulling a successful con on the banker, leaving everybody not aware of the con mystified.

    Two points about that famous episode. As Wikipedia notes, the plot for “Shady Deal at Sunny Acres” appears to form the basis for the first half of the later, very popular movie “The Sting,” starring Paul Newman and Robert Redford and the great Robert Shaw: “As Huggins [the creator of Maverick] noted during a lengthy discussion of the episode in his Archive of American Television interview, the first half of the 1973 movie The Sting seems based on Huggins’ script. While Bart and all of the series’ recurring characters join forces to energetically flim-flam the banker (“….if you can’t trust your banker, who can you trust?”), Bret sits whittling in a rocking chair across the street from the bank every day, responding to the amused and patronizing queries of the local townspeople curious about how he plans to recover his money, “I’m working on it.” ”

    Secondly, the line “if you can’t trust your banker. . .” predated by many years the savings and loan scandals of the late 80′s and the financial scandals of the 00′s and taps into the long tradition in America of distrust (with good reason) of financial institutions. The line resonated instantly with me as back in 1958 because I was a cynical teenager. But what a prophetic line (unfortunately most Americans do not think as skeptically or cynically today as they did when I was growing up).

    I recalled the episode fondly for many years, and I finally rented a DVD from Netflix about 5 years ago which contained “Shady Deal” and a few other Maverick episodes. Still a hoot after 50 years.

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  150. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Is BDS a global movement or a just a cult as Finkelstein says?

  151. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Would you please give a link to the video taken by the Israeli high-fivers which shows that they recorded the first plane hitting the tower

    wouldn’t that be nice wizard, if they’d provide a link to that?

    or all the videos at the Pentagon of the plane or whatever it was that hit. Where are those videos?

    where is the data from the Flight Data Recorders? There were eight of them and they’re all designed to easily survive those crashes and more. Why are we not permitted to listen to the cockpit recordings?

    And for that matter, where is the ruins and criminal and engineering evidence from the towers so that engineers can figure out what when wrong? Why was it all shipped to China to be melted down before a proper investigation could be conducted?

    doesn’t that strike you as odd wizard?

    but wait, we have been made privy to the conversation of the “let’s roll” hero on that day!

    it’s Mark Bingham, and he called his mom,

    “Hi mom, it’s Mark Bingham”, just in case she didn’t know which Mark it was ..

    we already know they had their cameras set up to “document the event”, and were seen taking selfies with the smoking holocaust from the attack in the background. Where are those pictures wizard? Wouldn’t it be something to see their smiling, gloating mugs with the carnage in the background?

  152. […] 21) Trump was right but they weren’t Muslims http://www.unz.com/article/the-dancing-israelis/ […]

  153. @Southern Sage

    Southern,
    Are you unaware that Mossad operatives routinely dress and pose as Muslim terrorist? With one of their important functions being to produce staged videos and interviews during which they threaten death and destruction to the infidels in the West etc. etc. They do it all the time. Remember the fake Bin Laden tapes and interviews released just prior to Bush The Lessor’s election to his 2nd term in office, even though his 1st 4 years had been an embarrassing failure. With these particular fake recording being produced and released just in time (about weeks prior to the election) to fool gullible American voters into boosting Bush’s popularity just enough t get him elected to a 2nd term, which of course turned out to be more disastrous than his 1st term. With both of his terms serving as a god-send to Saturday Night Live and other such satirist and stand-up comedians whom he provided free of charge with laugh-lines that were far superior to any the most skillful writers of political satire could ever hope to produce. In fact, there is little doubt that Bush put practically all mediocre writers out of work, along with a majority of the best. With Sarah Palin completing the job 4 years later. So, the long and short of all this is that you can dismiss the “Muslim Terrorist” thing for the Mossad.CIA produced propaganda it is. In short, prior to 9/11, (and probably ever since) there were no Muslim terrorist being “tracked” by Mossad agents. Who, if anything would have been merely following them around to serve as guides and coaches on how to be effective fake terrorist. In summing up, allow yourself to absorb the reality that THERE WERE NO MUSLIM TERRORIST ON ANY OF THE FOUR AIRLINERS ON THE MORNING OF 9/11. That means none, zero, zilch.

    [MORE]

    The “hi-jacked” airliners were all ELECTRONALLY HI-JACKED by their on-board flight controllers having been re-programmed (probably by Mossad agents at airports where Israeli companies were in charge of security which included all four of the airports from which hi-jacked planes departed on 9/11) with programs consisting of digital commands that took control of the planes from the pilots and flew them precisely to exact GPS co-ordinates that would have included the Twin Towers. With a 3rd plane into the Pentagon. (All on-board flight controllers are nothing more than digital computers pre-programmed by flight engineers to fly, airliners with great accuracy (using GPS co-ordinances) to pin-point GPS location within the plane’s flight range, determined primarily by how much fuel is on board the plane.) The 4th plane (flight 93) was supposed to have made a U-turn (as did the plane which hit the Pentagon) and return to strike Building #7 (which like the Twin Towers had been equipped long before 9/11 with proper demolition charges (along with a homing beacon that produce a radar beam called glide path radar that, with great precision controls airliners making final approaches airport run-ways with the pilot (except under emergency conditions) never touching the planes controls during approach. But during the event of 9/11 he planes simply the buildings just as they do when approaching run-ways. But in the case of Flight #93, things apparently did not work out as planned. With perhaps the pilots or flight engineer on the flight figuring-out a way to re-gain control of their plane. After which they would have landed at the nearest available airport as all pilots are instructed to do following emergencies on board. But of course that was not going to happen. Thus Dick Cheney, who had been left in charge at the White on 9/11 (while the bumbling idiot Bush was dispatched for obvious reasons to Florida to read goat stories to the captive school kids) issued or had issued an order for Flight #93 to be shot-down by a fighter planes that known to be in the immediate area and which was seen by civilians and at the time. With the shoot-down being made evident by the fact that luggage and various items of debris, as well as parts of the airliner itself were found by civilians (but quickly hushed-up by the controlled news media) up to 8 miles from the crash sight (in the approaching direction) . Serving as clear evidence that the airliner was struck by an air to air missile prior to it (or what was left of it) crashing vertically into the ground near Summerset, PA. Dick Cheney (probably inadvertently) once actually admitted to the airliner being shot-down. Doing so during a hurried interview for which he was apparently unprepared. Which if not been permanently removed, can be viewed via U-tube. You see, these sick phychos make serious blunders and mistakes on a routine basis, yet most Americans, due to their general lack of knowledge (particularly relating to technical and scientific subjects) do not recognize them the blunders for the confessions they actually are. Excuse the rambling but this is a lot to cram into one paragraph.

  154. LondonBob says:

    The Donald is solid on the Palestinian issue too. Principled and courageous.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/12/3/9843670/donald-trump-anti-semitic

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  155. @LondonBob

    thx LondonBob

    So to recap: Trump stood in front of an audience of Jews and told them that they were all about money and making deals. He stood in front of a pro-Israel crowd and told them Israel was (at least partially) to blame for the failure to come to terms with the Palestinians.

    Despite the applause, it’s hard to characterize that as anything but a disaster.

    iow speaking stone cold reality to a Jewish audience is “a disaster.”

    The People still support Trump.

    Who is out of step here?

    • Replies: @tbraton
  156. @Greg Bacon

    My lord that website is revolting. What on Earth…

  157. @geokat62

    No, are you serious? Even if I had had that “testimony” in mind why would I interpret it as saying anything about the timing of the high-fivers’ filming? But thank you for drawing my attention to evidence that what she saw is irrelevant to the critical timing question. Her neighbour sees the smoke from the crash, or conceivably the actual crash, perhaps fetches a pair of binoculars and watches for say half a minute then considers who to enjoy it with. Let’s say “Maria” is her first choice so two minutes after first seeing something remarkable she rings Maria and after another minute Maria has found her binoculars and gone to the window. Thirty seconds later she has noticed the high-fivers and begun to wonder what to do about it. Sorry, no evidence there at all that the camera had been set up to film the first crash. Indeed there is just as much reason to speculate that they had been sent out to create some video footage which would be used in an ad or doco and that they had by chance scored a bonus element that they immediately recognised could make their video clip worth a small fortune: hence the celebration.

  158. @tbraton

    Ah, the old TV shows!

    When I was a grade schooler in the 1960s, I loved the television cartoons “Dudley Do-Right of the Mounties” and “The World of Commander McBragg.” (The latter featured an aristocratic Englishman who was–well, a world-class bullshit artist. The Commander would regale his hapless listeners with outlandish stories of past exploits.) I liked “McHale’s Navy” and “12 O’Clock High.”

  159. geokat62 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Sorry, no evidence there at all that the camera had been set up to film the first crash.

    Oh, really. Let’s see if I’ve got this straight. Didn’t the whole world think the first plane had accidentally slammed into WTC1? Wasn’t it until the second plane ploughed into WTC 2 that people realized it was a terrorist act?

    But somehow these 5 Israelis were caught celebrating by an eye witness who saw them taking video or photos of themselves with WTC 1 in the background after the first plane had slammed into that tower.

    What struck her were the expressions on the men’s faces:

    “They were like happy, you know … They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange,” she said.

    But, then again, maybe you’re right, maybe “they had been sent out to create some video footage which would be used in an ad.” Probably an ad for how to pull the wool over the dumb goys’ eyes.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  160. @Carroll Price

    Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld admit Flight 93 was shot down.

    George Bush says he saw plane hit 1st trade center 24 hours before clip was released to public.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  161. tbraton says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “The People still support Trump.

    Who is out of step here?”

    That’s a real head scratcher, S2C.

    • Replies: @Art
  162. @Jean Cocteausten

    Bullshit. You unknowingly contradict your own pathetic theory while effectively claiming that the laws of physical science relating to the acceleration of falling bodies increasing at a known rate in the absence of resistive forces was not in effect on the morning of 9/11. If the twin towers collapsed in a pancake fashion, why did we not see a large stack of floors consisting of concrete and steel sitting neatly on top of each other like a huge pancake instead of a pile of vertical support columns that had been cut by thermate into shipping length pieces for shipment to China? But take note of the fact there were no concrete floor slabs because they had been atomized by explosive charges that distributed several inches of pulverized concrete dust over most of lower Manhattan Island.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  163. tbraton says:
    @geokat62

    “Didn’t the whole world think the first plane had accidentally slammed into WTC1? Wasn’t it until the second plane ploughed into WTC 2 that people realized it was a terrorist act?”

    I was out biking when the first plane hit. When I got home, I didn’t have a clue about anything going on. Then I listened to my message machine and heard a message from a friend up north informing me that a plane had hit the WTC Tower and that she was leaving for work. The implication was that an accident had happened. The first thought I had was how anybody could miss seeing such a big building in clear daylight. I turned on the TV to find out what was going on, and they were showing the video of a second plane hitting the other tower. I immediately concluded that it wasn’t an accident. Then I heard about the plane crashing into the Pentagon and about a fourth plane still in the air. I thought we were involved in a war. Needless to say, I was stuck to the TV for the next several hours. I witnessed the two Towers crashing to the ground in real time, one after the other. So, you are right. The normal reaction of anyone who heard of the first plane hitting the Tower was that some kind of accident had occurred. Any doubt was only eliminated by the second plane, which occurred about 20 minutes later, as I recall.

  164. @This Is Our Home

    “9/11 neither furthered their interests nor diminished them.”

    How stunningly ignorant.
    The “New Pearl Harbor” never advance Israeli interest?

    Unbelievable.

    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
  165. @Thirdeye

    About 80% of the airliner’s fuel was consumed in the huge fire-ball that erupted in the air outside the buildings. The airliners themselves did minimal damage to the Twin Towers, which were built to withstand impacts far exceeding those imposed upon them by relatively light weight airliners constructed primarily of titanium, aluminum and plastic. The airliners crashing into the building was simply a pyro-technique perfected by Hollywood producers, for the purpose of capturing and holding the morbid fascination that large numbers of Americans have for the sight of buildings, planes and cars being consumed by violent explosions that produce huge fire balls accompanied by falling debris. With pyro technique often producing highs that rival or exceed highs resulting from sexual ejaculations. When most Americans think of 9/11 about all they are capable of mentally recalling of the event is seeing in their minds eye are the two large balls of fire exploding outside of the two world trade centers. Which, of course, is exactly what they were designed to accomplish in closing the minds of most Americans to anything else relating to the event itself.

  166. RobinG says:
    @Carroll Price

    What are these 2 videos supposed to prove?
    Stuff like this is what gives 911Truth a bad name.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  167. @Greasy WIlliam

    I could be mistaken about greasy, but I think I smell a whiff of satire. Which if it is, is pretty effective in painting the picture pretty much as it is. Because, as he says, people (Jews or Gentiles for the most part) really don’t give a damn what happens to their fellow man as long as their misfortunes have no effect on their ability to shop for goodies and exist as human garbage disposal units.

    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
  168. @Quartermaster

    Controlled demolition charges brought all three building down in identical fashion, which is evidenced by the fact that although Building 7 was not hit by a plane of any sort, it collapse exactly like the Twin Towers. There simply is no other explanation and only an ignorant fool would claim otherwise.

  169. @Anonymous

    And it is my understanding that the dancing Israelis were released and returned to Israel at the request of the Jews, Michal Chertoff

  170. @Wizard of Oz

    Your excuses and explanations sound suspiciously like conspiracy theories to me. But they are by far the weakest I have encountered. Except maybe the hologram theory.

  171. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Bill Jones

    I don’t see why the Israelis cared much about the Taliban…

  172. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Carroll Price

    You think you smell the whiff of satire? You could be mistaken?

    You have aspergers if you can’t immediately tell that his post is total crap.

    Now I know how Sabrina Erdely’s colleagues must feel.

  173. […] media backtracking – Islamophobia triples, they cry and even the conservative UNZ brings out an article that it was the Israelis, not the Muslims who were celebrating […]

  174. tbraton says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ” Indeed there is just as much reason to speculate that they had been sent out to create some video footage which would be used in an ad or doco and that they had by chance scored a bonus element that they immediately recognised could make their video clip worth a small fortune: hence the celebration.”

    Yes, indeed. Video so valuable that it was “worth a small fortune,” which surely explains why we don’t see it any more.

  175. @RobinG

    If you’re too stupid to figure out what these two videos prove, then explaining it to you will probably be a waste of my time. But I’ll give it a shot.
    Since Flight 93 was shot down as Dick Cheney unambiguously admits, it proves the official version of what brought Flight 93 down is a total lie fabricated by phychos like Cheney void of any soul or conscious. With a significant portion of that lie being the cock-and-bull, Let’s Roll narrative which was obviously produced in a studio containing appropriate sound effects..

    As to Bush stating, as he unambiguously did, that he watched the 1st plane fly into the 1st Twin Tower on commercial TV, while waiting inside the entrance lobby of the school in Florida before presenting his Pet Goat reading lesson to the kids inside the school, would have been impossible since that particular video did not surface until the following day and was not shown on commercial TV until the afternoon of the following day. Which proves, beyond doubt that in addition to being a bumbling idiot who himself cannot read a simple sentence, George Bush is either a consummate cold-hearted liar, or he really did watch the 1st plane hit the 1st Tower, doing so on a Secret Service provided closed-circuit TV connection inside a limo or highly secure presidential command post set up there in one of the school’s parking lots.
    It is a very significant statistic that about 85% of people living in countries other than the US are fully aware that 9/11 was a false-flag attack. No doubt about it. While about 40% of Americans share that same conviction. Which proves two significant thing; What passes in this country for “news” is 99% pure propaganda being produced and broadcast on a 24/7 basis by the Zionist owned news media. With the other significant proof being that America is grossly over-populated with complete idiots like you who do not have the mental capacity to escape a shower of shit, or figure your way out of open paper sack.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @RobinG
    , @escobar
  176. @Carroll Price

    Security services at all four airports from which “hi-jacked” planes departed on the morning of 9/11 were provided by a Dutch based Israeli Corporation called ICTS.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/9-11-and-ground-zero/2013/02/all-911-airports-serviced-by-one-israeli-owned-company-wtf-2439540.html

    • Replies: @alexander
  177. schmenz says:
    @tbraton

    A fellow “Maverick” fan salutes you. That show is every bit as funny now as it was a half-century ago.

  178. Rurik says:
    @Carroll Price

    Since Flight 93 was shot down as Dick Cheney unambiguously admits, it proves the official version of what brought Flight 93 down is a total lie

    Rummy also blurted out that the plane was shot down

    I notice Cheney slips in that he ordered it on the president’s (that chimp) authority

    that same smirking chimp who sat in that classroom for 20 something minutes when he and his entire staff all knew that the second plane had hit and that our country was under murderous attack.

    and he sat there,

    with a that stupid look on his mug for over 20 minutes

    and his secret service allowed!!! him to sit there.

    that is just one more smoking gun to the whole idiotic conspiracy theory that this whole thing was perpetrated by Osama with his cell phone and laptop in a cave in Afghanistan. Not only was he able to implode three building by hitting only two, and turn the first two into powder, and shut down NORAD and SAC and prevent any jets from being scrambled (as is routine protocol and is done within a couple of minutes of a hijacking), but he was able to order the secret service to stand down. And was able to keep the president of the country paralyzed as the attack was commencing. Talk about a wild conspiracy theory

    what I wonder is how many of the people who STILL believe the official version (or parrot the lies) are that stupid vs. how many are dishonest apologists for the treacherous fiends who committed that singular act of pure, stone-cold evil on that day. And if they’re the latter, what does that make them?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  179. @Rurik

    . . .that same smirking chimp who sat in that classroom for 20 something minutes . . .

    that classroom:

    “U.S. President George W. Bush was reading the story at the Emma E. Booker School in Sarasota, Florida when he was informed of the ongoing terror attacks.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pet_Goat

    ——–

    Published: Thursday, September 12, 2013 at 1:00 a.m. Herald Tribune

    http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20130912/opinion/309129995

    - The reported links between the 9/11 terrorists and a Saudi Arabian family that lived in Sarasota are slowly coming into focus, despite the FBI’s tenacious efforts to conceal them.

    A Herald-Tribune story by Michael Pollick published Wednesday — the 12th anniversary of the terrorist attacks — reported that recently obtained FBI documents appear to confirm “many connections” between the family and the 9/11 hijackers who received flight training in Venice.

    More could be revealed if a federal lawsuit filed against the FBI by a South Florida online newspaper is successful. The lawsuit seeks additional documents and agents’ field notes related to their investigation of the family.

    Among those interested is Bob Graham, the former Florida governor and U.S. senator who co-chaired a congressional panel that investigated the 9/11 attacks. Graham has filed a statement with the court in support of the lawsuit.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  180. tbraton says:

    “A fellow “Maverick” fan salutes you. That show is every bit as funny now as it was a half-century ago.”

    I totally agree. When I rented that DVD from Netflix about 5 years ago, it contained about three programs, the “Shady Deal” episode plus two others. I had a good memory of “Shady Deal” from seeing it as a child, and the line “if you can’t trust your banker” delivered by that oily character actor who positively oozed sleaze just stuck in my mind. But I was surprised how funny the episode was on seeing it roughly 50+ years later. (BTW “Maverick” began in 1957, and that was 58 years ago. I thought I would remind you just to make you feel old. Unless, that is, you saw it in reruns.) That has not been my experience on viewing old favorites. For example, when the musical “The Producers” opened on Broadway a number of years ago and drew rave reviews from the critics, I decided to rent the movie from Netflix to see if it was as hilarious as I and my girlfriend found it to be when we saw it in 1970, a few years after it first came out, when I was in my later 20′s. I can’t tell you how unfunny I found the movie 40 years later, although Zero Mostel and Gene Wilder were still very good. Something dramatic had changed in my taste for humor. I found it very interesting that something I found to be funny in my very early teens, like the “Maverick” episode, I still found funny 50+ years later, but something I found hilarious in my later 20′s, like “The Producers,” turned me off 40 years later.

    • Replies: @schmenz
  181. Art says:
    @tbraton

    “The People still support Trump.

    Who is out of step here?”

    That’s a real head scratcher, S2C.

    Trump’s Response to Jewish hecklers at rally– ‘You don’t support me because I don’t want your money. You want a politician you can control’

    https://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2015/12/03/trumps-response-to-jewish-hecklers-at-rally-you-dont-support-me-because-i-dont-want-your-money-you-want-a-politician-you-can-control/#more-97844

    Zero reporting of this in the Jew MSM.

    Who dares to say that the Jew are not a unified cabal?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  182. @SolontoCroesus

    Within just a couple of days following 9/11, I remember reading an article concerning Gov. Jeb Bush (who was governor of Florida at the time) being swiftly chauffeured to Elgin Air Force Base in Florida where, in the wee hours of the morning following 9/11 he supposedly removed certain records from files stored at the flight school where some of the alleged terrorist had received part of their flight training. I don’t recall ever seeing a back-up article on this interesting story, but I have always felt that it was probably true, because it had that unmistakable ring of authenticity about it. But short of an investigation of 9/11 by reliable, sworn, Gentile-only citizens of this country who have subpoena powers enforced by a citizen’s militia, mysteries like this one, as well as the mysterious death by “accident” of Marvin Bush’s long-time, live-in nanny (who was supposedly pinned to a building and run over by her own automobile sitting in the driveway of Marvin Bush’s home) will forever remain a mystery.

    http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=3079

  183. schmenz says:
    @tbraton

    FYI: All five seasons of “Maverick” are on dvd, released by the studio (not some lousy bootleg).

    • Replies: @alexander
  184. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    I dare you.

    Come on dude, you and that Carroll woman, get a life. Forget about the cabal and have a bit of fun. Who knows maybe this is your fun. Do you realize you sound stupid? What is this obsession with ‘ Da Joos!!!”

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    , @Art
  185. @Sam Shama

    It would be an impossible task to compile a complete list, but just a couple of obsessions informed individuals have with Da Joos, is that Da Joos routinely spy-on and betray host countries in which they dwell as pest and parasites, are past-masters at hatching false-flag attacks leading to millions of innocent civilians being maimed and killed in foreign wars that are fought by Gentiles for the benefit of Da Jooish Banksters and the creation of a Greater Israel.
    Any further questions?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  186. @Carroll Price

    @Carroll Price

    Another reason to doubt “Isaac Newton” ‘s credentials is his claim that the collapsing floors fell faster as they got bigger. Gravitational (i.e., free-fall) acceleration is independent of mass.

  187. polymath says:

    Beefcake, you’re completely wrong.

    The floors would be falling at the same speed if they were each merely knocked loose but all the floors above them were already falling at a high speed and PUSHED the lower floors giving them an additional acceleration besides the gravitational. The lower the floor, the heavier and faster the mass that fell on it, so the more quickly it descended.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    , @Anonymous
  188. alexander says:
    @schmenz

    Is there any specific causal link with “Maverick” and the five dancing Israeli’s ?

    Like maybe they were watching a “rerun” back at the shop that morning before they were instructed to go out and film the towers being struck ?

    And if so, I wonder which episode ?

    Maybe they were dancing,laughing and high-five-ing….not in jubilation over the airliner hitting its mark, but a sequence of “Maverick” they thought was really funny ?

    According to Mr Oz, the near infinite legal and moral possibilities for such Jubilant behavior at the time of the attack, could not” reasonably ” exclude such an episode , as being, in fact , the true catalyst for their “jubilation”.

    • Replies: @schmenz
    , @tbraton
  189. Tucker says:
    @Aaron Gross

    You are neglecting to wrap your brain around the jewish predilection to demonstrate their world famous, and extremely infuriating habit of ‘chutzpah’, Mr. Gross.

    A case in point – and exhibit A for the prosecution: ‘Lucky’ Larry Silverstein. This arrogant and chutzpahetic slab of Satan’s seed had the gall to take out insurance policies on the WTC towers just a few short months before the September 11, 2001 attacks and he specifically demanded that his insurance policies covered ‘acts of terrorism’.

    If we were living in a normal nation, one that had not been thoroughly corrupted, subverted, and poisoned by jewish influence and domination, anyone who took out insurance policies a few months before a huge terrorist attack on a building that they owned and insisted that the policies cover ‘acts of terrorism’ – would have generated enormous levels of suspicion and would have been grounds for an extensive insurance fraud investigation. Also, Silverstein was not merely content with receiving a single insurance payout – he had the gonads to demand that he be paid as if these three WTC towers were victims of separate acts of terrorism and the SOB actually pulled that scam off. Clearly, Silverstein had prior knowledge of the coming 9-11 attacks and he saw that as an opportunity to butt rape his insurance company. And, to make sure he was able to succeed in his insurance scam, he received a little help from Michael Bernard Mukasey, who was strategically positioned as Attorney General at the very time the Silverstein insurance dispute was working its way through the courts. Mukasey, if you haven’t guessed, is also a Son of Israel. Tribal networking, Tribal thinking, Tribal cooperation – is the name of the game – and no race of people do it more effectively than the ‘tribe’.

    Thus, when these Israelis were trying to sue the US Government after appearing on that Israeli TV program and admitting that they were ‘there to document the event’ – it was just another example of the chutzpah that Israelis are famous for demonstrating. Not only did they engineer the biggest and most deadly act of terrorism against the USA in American history – but the arrogant SOBs even made every effort they could think up to find a way to profit off of it.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  190. Rehmat says:

    Let us not forget, just three days after the 9/11, the former head of Pakistan intelligence agency ISI, Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul (d. 2015), blamed Bush administration and Israeli Mossad for planning and carrying out the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

    In an interview with Arnaud de Borchgrave, UPI editor-at-large on September 14, 2001, Hamid Gul pointed finger at Bush administration and Israel for masterminding the 9/11 events: “The U.S. spends $40 billion a year on its 11 intelligence agencies. That’s $400 billion in 10 years. Yet the Bush Administration says it was taken by surprise. I don’t believe it. Within 10 minutes of the second twin tower being hit in the World Trade Center CNN said Osama bin Laden had done it. That was a planned piece of disinformation by the real perpetrators. It created an instant mindset and put public opinion into a trance, which prevented even intelligent people from thinking for themselves.”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/06/17/hamid-gul-nothing-but-the-truth/

  191. @polymath

    Polymath,
    The last sentence of your nonsensical response, is an indication that you have no grasp of elementary physics. One of the basic laws of physics relating to the speed of falling objects was discovered by physicist, Sir Isaac Newton (the real one not the one occasionally making ill-informed comments on this thread) was that the speed (actually rate of acceleration) remains the same for all falling objects regardless of their mass (weight). That is to say, when released from the same height at the exact same instant, and allowed to drop freely through the atmosphere, a 9 pound cannon ball will strike the ground at the exact same instant as a 6 ounce musket ball.

    Likewise projectiles (regardless of weight) fired HORIZONTALLY from the barrel of smooth bore guns, will strike the ground at the exact same instant as an object (regardless of weight) dropped at the same instant from a height equal to that of the barrel of the gun from which the projectile was fired.

    This near total absence of understanding among the general population of Americans of this basic law of physics is but one of the things that makes America the “exceptional” country it has become. Causing the average American to not recognize what they are seeing when they observe the controlled demolition of the three buildings on 9/11. At which time, all three of the buildings dropped to the ground at essentially free-fall acceleration (about 7.1 seconds for the Twin Towers and slightly over 6 seconds for Building #7.) With this being due to the absence of resistance caused by support structures directly below each falling portion of the building having been removed by carefully timed, demolition charges designed for that purpose. Leading to the indisputable mathematically proven fact that the upper-most portion of each building (like the antenna atop one of the Twin Towers) struck the ground at essentially the same instant as a bowling ball would have if dropped from that same height.

    • Replies: @alexander
  192. schmenz says:
    @alexander

    Occasionally on the UNZ Review the discussion goes off topic for awhile. It happens. Also on UNZ, I occasionally see people offer a helpful suggestion to another commenter regarding that off-topic matter. It does not seem to bother anyone as far as I can see. But it has apparently bothered you to such an extent that I have to endure a pointless response, dripping with sarcasm.

    But if that makes you happy and feel important, be my guest!

    • Replies: @alexander
  193. alexander says:
    @Carroll Price

    Was there a report of the Israeli security company personnel in charge of Logan Airport security …laughing, dancing, and high five-ing too…. when the planes struck ?…..

    ..or was it just the members of Israeli moving company in New Jersey ?

    • Replies: @tbraton
  194. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @polymath

    You’re not only completely and totally wrong, you’re delusional – or paid to post such nonsense.

    But you could be that stupid. Always a possibility in Amerika.

  195. tbraton says:
    @alexander

    “Is there any specific causal link with “Maverick” and the five dancing Israeli’s ? ”

    Since your incredibly stupid remark involves a reference first made by me in message #156, let me respond. In that message, I discussed the report reprinted in Popular Mechanics by another poster about the study concluded by the NIST in 2008 re the collapse of WTC Building No. 7. In my last paragraph, I stated:

    “I don’t profess to have any engineering background or knowledge, so I have no expert knowledge to bring to the table. All I have is a natural sense of skepticism, which has not been satisfied by reading the PM account of the NIST report. After all, to paraphrase a wonderful TV show called “Maverick” back in the late 50′s when I was a teenager, “if you can’t trust your federal government, who can you trust?” ”

    Since you are obviously part of the world-wide cabal organized and led by Wizard of Ooze (including that half Brit dunce “Deduction” who apparently is rather ignorant and clueless about his traditional religion), you are obviously devoted to the State of Israel. As you can clearly see, my original message had nothing to do with the “dancing Israelis,” something you could have easily determined by going back and reviewing the prior messages. But that would have stood in the way of your rather ignorant cheap shot designed to divert attention and inject some doubt into an issue you would rather not address. Little wonder that many posters here regard Wizard of Ooze and his followers as nothing more than trolls. As my exchange with Deduction amply demonstrated, I am somewhat surprised that you guys can purport to speak so authoritatively about matters where you are so obviously ignorant and bring nothing to the table. You are a stupid man who mistakenly prides himself on his “clever wit.”

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @alexander
  196. alexander says:
    @Carroll Price

    Where it is quite true that on planet earth, this law of physics applies to bodies in free fall, regardless of their weight…..the law seems to breakdown with much more massive bodies in space.

    lets assume two bodies in space were traveling toward earth at a relative equal speed..one was the size of a small asteroid ( 50 feet across) the other nearly the size of earth itself…

    At a certain point the much more massive body would accelerate faster toward earth than the asteroid..

    The reason being its own gravitational force would act as a multiplier to Earths…..Drawing the two bodies together at a much faster rate.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  197. alexander says:
    @schmenz

    No bother on the off topic… in the least….And it wasn’t meant as an aside to you..or the program..I was just seeing if I could pull it back on topic…that’s it.

  198. Rurik says:
    @tbraton

    I too occasionally wander off topic and I find, just as in this case, that it usually makes for an even more entertaining thread. Not while it’s at the top of the page perhaps, but once people start to lose interest and they become little offshoots of conversations, why not?

    I even tried to see if I could watch the program on youtube, (but they wanted money ; )

    - I’ll catch it when I can.

    when the trolls start acting butt hurt and complaining about things so benign just to assuage their hurt feelings, then we know it’s getting to them ; )

  199. tbraton says:
    @alexander

    “Was there a report of the Israeli security company personnel in charge of Logan Airport security …laughing, dancing, and high five-ing too…. when the planes struck ?…..

    ..or was it just the members of Israeli moving company in New Jersey ?”

    On another thread, I cited the very real case of PM Netanyahu stating on Fox News Sunday back in 2010 (without challenge or question by that ace newsman Chris Wallace about a matter which struck me immediately on hearing it that it was major news) that the Taliban was the mastermind behind 9/11 and was responsible for urging on Al Qaeda to attack the U.S. on 9/11, an assertion that has absolutely no basis in fact.

    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/from-the-airliner-to-the-bomber/#comment-1245332

    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/from-the-airliner-to-the-bomber/#comment-1246059

    Now, following your logic, are we to assume that all Israelis subscribe to that nonsensical position and that all Jews worldwide believe as Netanyahu stated on American TV? I would bet that even Netanyahu doesn’t believe that BS he was spouting. After all, most of the many Jews I have known in my lifetime don’t even believe the childish nonsense (as Albert Einstein put it) in the Book of Exodus about Moses parting the Red Sea (with Yahweh’s help, of course).

    • Replies: @alexander
  200. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    Say anon3,

    It appears that Sana Barbara was a personal fight between a Jew and a Muslim.

    “San Bernardino Terrorist To Jewish Victim: ‘You Will Never See Israel’”

    http://www.hannity.com/articles/hanpr-war-on-terror-487284/san-bernardino-terrorist-to-jewish-victim-14177844/

    Here is more:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344350/Devout-Muslim-citizen-Saudi-wife-living-American-Dream-identified-heavily-armed-duo-burst-office-holiday-party-slaughtered-14-leaving-baby-mother.html

    Just look at all the trouble this Jew and his personal fight with an Arab brought to America. Jew hate is darkening the world’s door.

    Remember 9/11. Blowback for unfair treatment of Palestinians by the US government.

    Jews lived in relative peace for 2 thousand years in the middle east – then came Israel and all the hate that Jews have locked in their tribal soul.

    It is time for you to get your head out of the sand.

    Art

    • Replies: @Marty T
  201. alexander says:
    @tbraton

    Dear Tbraton,

    There is a chance you may have misinterpreted my comment to” schmenz .”

    In the event that is the case….what can I say ?

    Maybe we will have better luck next time.

  202. alexander says:
    @tbraton

    There is a chance you my have missed this one too….

    oh well.

  203. @alexander

    Wrong.
    The two bodies in space (or anywhere else) would accelerate at the same rate because the same gravitational force (pull) is being applied equally to both. Which is in accordance with the law of physics which states that any two (or more) bodies subjected to the same gravitational force, will if released at the same time, will arrive at the same point at the same time. Conforming with my earlier comment explaining to why a cannon ball weighing 9 lbs. will reach the ground at the same time as a musket ball weighing only a few ounces. That is if each are released at the exact same time. If one ball is released before the other, the one released first will reach the ground first, with the 2nd ball reaching the ground at a time equal to the difference in time between their release.
    It is believed (and could very well be true) that Sir Isaac Newton proved this basic law of physics by dropping objects of different weight (mass) from the Leaning Tower Of Pisa which still stands in Italy. According to his comments regarding the experiments, he was as surprised as his assistance and acquaintances at the results he found. Because up to that time, (1680s)everyone assumed (and unfortunately most still do) that a heavier body naturally falls faster than a lighter one. Which explains why most people who observe the 3 buildings falling at free-fall acceleration (proved by how long it took for them to reach the ground) do not understand that this could not have possibly occurred unless the supporting structure below each floor had been present to offer resistance to downward movement and acceleration. Proving beyond doubt that precisely timed demolition charges were removing supporting structure under each floor prevent the floor above it from experiencing any resistance to downward motion. Which this sequence continuing until the upper-most floor of the building dropped to the ground at the exact same time it would have hit the ground if dropped from a helicopter hovering at the same height of the top of the building. Or, as mentioned earlier, the upper-most portion of the building hit the ground at the same time a bowling ball dropped from the same height.

    • Replies: @unseated
  204. geokat62 says:

    Just finished viewing an extraordinary video that I thought others might be interested in. It is an interview (starting at 11:47) of a long-serving British parliamentarian, Gerald Kaufman by another British parliamentarian, George Galloway.

    Even though Mr. Kaufman’s relatives were murdered in the holocaust and he grew up an ardent supporter of the state of Israel, he is now calling for international sanctions against a regime that he has no hesitation admitting is even worse than the apartheid regime in SA.

    Here’s my favourite line from the interview:

    “My grandmother did not die to provide Israelis cover to murder Palestinian grandmothers.”

    I know Sam said he would be checking in on occasion. Sam, here is another sterling example of a true humanitarian. This man contradicts everything the old timers warned you about people being tribal. As this interview clearly demonstrates, there is not a single tribal bone in this man’s body.

    http://youtu.be/rkkxZDZZtJ0

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  205. tbraton says:

    “There is a chance you may have misinterpreted my comment to” schmenz .”
    In the event that is the case….what can I say ?
    Maybe we will have better luck next time.”

    No, Alexander, I definitely did not misinterpret your comment. In fact, I quoted the first line in that comment, which mistakenly and erroneously criticized the “Maverick” allusion as having nothing to do with the “5 dancing Israelis” happily observing the collapse of the Twin Towers, as I clearly pointed out in my response. The error was clearly and solely on your part, not mine. Normally, I would express a little surprise that you failed to acknowledge your error and issue an apology, but I have to realize that such normal behavior is not in the playbook devised by Wizard of Ooze for his followers to obey. Rather, the standard operating procedure appears to be not to acknowledge error even when caught in the most blatant mistake but to make vague allusions (such as your instant message) to the fact that the error lies with the accuser. Muddy the water, above all, right, Alexander?

    BTW here is the full text of your message invoking “Maverick” to which I responded:

    Is there any specific causal link with “Maverick” and the five dancing Israeli’s ?

    Like maybe they were watching a “rerun” back at the shop that morning before they were instructed to go out and film the towers being struck ?

    And if so, I wonder which episode ?

    Maybe they were dancing,laughing and high-five-ing….not in jubilation over the airliner hitting its mark, but a sequence of “Maverick” they thought was really funny ?

    According to Mr Oz, the near infinite legal and moral possibilities for such Jubilant behavior at the time of the attack, could not” reasonably ” exclude such an episode , as being, in fact , the true catalyst for their “jubilation”.

    In light of your message’s complete obsession with the “dancing Israelis,” it’s kind of hard to argue that I was off the mark in interpreting your message having something to do with “dancing Israelis,” isn’t it, especially when I quoted your first line invoking the “dancing Israelis”? And my pointing out that my original message had nothing to do with “dancing Israelis” just underscored what a completely ignorant asshole you are, didn’t it, Alexander?

    BTW I see you obsequiously invoked Wizard of Ooze’s name, which must be specified as SOP in the Wizard of Ooze’s playbook. Let me tell you something about Wizard of Ooze. When I first started posting on a regular basis on unz.com back in July, I responded innocently to a post Wizard of Ooze made to Steve Sailer, thinking he was a serious poster, in which he observed that he had just seen a documentary dealing with the Vietnam War and he was puzzled by the reference to a “20-year war.” Trying to be helpful, I suggested a possible answer was that they were dating the war from the time President Eisenhower first sent a handful of advisers there in +1955. I was struck by Wizard of Ooze’s response. He said he had thought of that, but he added some other mumbo-jumbo. On reading his response, I thought to myself of course you had thought of it and that was why you made absolutely no mention of that possibility in your original message. Rather than admit he hasn’t thought of that obvious solution to the problem he cited, he dug in his heels and insisted that he had thought of that himself. See my observation above about never admitting error. From that point, I sort of wrote off Wizard of Ooze and concluded that the other posters, who were obviously much more familiar with the Wizard than I was, were right when they referred to him as a pro-Israel troll.

    Subsequently, I posted a message raising about five points re the ancient Jews, notably that the Jews had not started out as monotheists but as monolatrists. http://www.unz.com/jpetras/the-doctrine-of-superior-people-the-bond-between-israel-and-world-zionism/#comment-1120856 Out of the blue, I was attacked on one point by the poster known as “Deduction,” who labeled my post as the most ignorant post he had encountered on the internet and thus revealed the truly deep depths of his own ignorance. Well, I responded to Deduction and literally raked him over the coals, tearing him three new assholes, demonstrating what a truly blithering idiot he was. Well, again out of the blue, who comes to Deduction’s defense but one Wizard of Ooze, who conceded that Deduction’s response was “over the top,” but taking an unmerited and unsubstantiated cheap shot at me, utterly without a hint of what misstatements I had made. The hilarious thing was that Wizard of Ooze conceded that it was obvious that Deduction was an English Jew, which clearly indicated to me that Wizard was fully familiar with Deduction and knew he was Jewish (“While he is clearly Jewish as well as English, and makes no attempt that I can see to dissemble”). Two days later, apparently concerned that he had inadvertently admitted he knew Deduction and could speak authoritatively about Deduction’s religion, Wizard of Ooze meekly asked of Deduction “I presume you are Jewish as well as English, n’est-ce pas? ”
    It takes a big league ignoramus to make a conclusive statement and then indicate that he was not certain of what he was stating. And to demonstrate so conclusively what utter nonsense he was spouting, which seems to be a well-honed specialty of Wizard of Ooze.

    In conclusion, I can only say that I am less than impressed by you and your collaborators on this site. Geniuses you clearly aren’t, even though you all seem to think you are.

    • Replies: @alexander
  206. alexander says:

    Sorry Carroll, not quite right.

    Your argument that two bodies in space regardless of their mass and size will fall at the same rate towards each other is incorrect. the laws of gravity are correct but your argument is not.

    What Sir Isaac Newton witnessed was relative to earths gravitational pull which is constant …because the relative gravitational pull of any object he dropped whether its weight is one ounce or 50 lbs is virtually non existent relative to the earths ….likewise with the free fall speed of the twin towers…same rate relative to the earth.

    But in space two earth size bodies with equal mass would attract to each other at a much faster rate than an earth size body and a small asteroid.

    two equal gravitational pulls acting towards each would accelerate the rate at which they collide.

    How do I explain it …..lets say you are an astronaut in space…with a long tether tied to a small rock at the end…you are able to pull that rock toward you at a rate of 2 feet per second …if the rock is 20 feet away it will take ten seconds to reach you …correct ?

    Now imagine, not a rock ,but another astronaut at the end of the tether who is able to pull the tether at the same rate as you, 2 feet per second…each ones ability to pull, 2 feet per second ,will result in a collision in half the time,five seconds…not ten.

    therefore the speed at which they are drawn to each other is 4 feet per second not two.

    The exact same principle is true for large bodies in space with equal gravitational pull…the gravitational pull of each is constant…which is the law…but the speed at which they are drawn to each other is a multiplied by both gravitational pulls….this is an absolute fact, Carroll….and it has no bearing on the collapse of the twin towers or its rate of speed.

    There is only one way it would…If , lets say . the top floor of the twin towers had an equal mass and gravitational pull as the earth itself…then the top floor of the twin towers would actually pull the earth at the same rate the earth would pull the twin towers resulting in a collision in half the time.

    Does that clear things up for you a bit ?

    • Replies: @tbraton
  207. alexander says:
    @tbraton

    Dear Tbraton,

    Wow …that was a long winded diatribe…..

    It is still pretty clear to me , on the basis of what you wrote, that you may have misinterpreted my comment……

    But since I don’t have a monopoly on its interpretation, you are certainly entitled to read into it what you choose to…

    But i would hesitate to blame me for your interpretation, unless you are sure its what I intended.

    Since it looks to me like you still didn’t get it..

    What can I say ?

    • Replies: @tbraton
  208. tbraton says:
    @alexander

    “It is still pretty clear to me , on the basis of what you wrote, that you may have misinterpreted my comment……

    But since I don’t have a monopoly on its interpretation, you are certainly entitled to read into it what you choose to…

    But i would hesitate to blame me for your interpretation, unless you are sure its what I intended.

    Since it looks to me like you still didn’t get it..”

    Gee, Alexander, you continue to throw out your vague allusions that I am at fault for misinterpreting your comment, confirming what I pointed out in my prior message. Why don’t you show your intellectual heft by explaining exactly where my analysis is wrong? Surely, a man of your brilliant intelligence can do that, can’t he, Alexander? So, are you still insisting that your original message #197 did not falsely claim that my allusion to Maverick was somehow connected to the “5 dancing Israelis”? BTW my original message with the “Maverick” reference was message #156. Find any reference there to the “5 dancing Israelis” and repost that reference, lest we conclude that you are a blithering old fool who likes to lie a lot. I notice your skills of argumentation are on a par with those of Deduction (a completely ignorant dunce who somehow thinks it’s OK to invent English translations of the Torah to suit his taste) and very similar to those champion black women debaters from Towson U. that Sailer posted a few months back. Where does Wizard of Ooze dig up you brainless clowns?

    BTW what did you think about Wizard of Ooze confidently assuring me that Deduction was an “English Jew,” and then two days later meekly asking Deduction “you are English and Jewish, aren’t you?” A real genius, that man.

  209. alexander says:

    Dear Tbraton,

    It was a joke .

    .I had no problem with your ‘Maverick’ comments at all..they were great…fine …..fun, too. My comment was never meant as an offhanded critique of yours.

    It was never meant as an insult to you or “schmenz”.

    The introduction of “Maverick ” into the larger discussion being thrashed about is kind of funny in itself…

    The fact that I went with it… ..as a question of ‘causal linkage” in my comment ..was a way of articulating the humor of it being there…not as an aside to you.

    I would have imagined you and “schmenz” laughing your socks off .at anyone taking your “Maverick “ball…and running with it …….not taking umbrage to it…

    but as I said, I don’t have a monopoly on how my comment is interpreted.

  210. RobinG says:
    @Carroll Price

    Mr.Priceless wrote:

    Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld admit Flight 93 was shot down.

    George Bush says he saw plane hit 1st trade center 24 hours before clip was released to public.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItIH7NXWD8&feature=player_embedded

    In the 1st video, Cheney says that he gave the order, not whether the order was actually carried out. But that is neither here nor there. Whether they did or didn’t shoot the plane down (and please remember all the complaints that NORAD was busy with some sort of drill and therefore NOT able to shoot down the 2 planes that hit the towers), or even whether they stuck with a hero myth about the plane crash, has no bearing on the question of who, or how, or who knew, etc., the main event…WTC.

    The 2nd video shows a GW Bush Q&A. You’re trying to make a big deal of it because he said, “…I saw a plane hit…” SO WHAT. That’s how people talk. This is just short for “I saw that a plane hit” or “I saw that a plane had hit” because what he obviously saw on TV was the smoking building, and he may even have heard the New Yorker who said that they saw the plane hit, or just the news commentators who were all talking about a plane hitting.

    You used typical internet behavior: someone disagrees with you, call them too stupid for words. Actually, I’m happy that the Truthers won’t let this go, but these videos prove nothing, and citing them as ‘evidence’ detracts from and discredits serious investigation.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  211. tbraton says:
    @alexander

    Alexander, I find it highly amusing that you would complain about the “Maverick” posts being “off topic,” but you shamelessly introduce into the discussion a scientific matter, which your own post concedes could have no possible relevance to the collapse of the Twin Towers on 9/11.

    Here is what you just said in your message:

    “Your argument that two bodies in space regardless of their mass and size will fall at the same rate towards each other is incorrect. the laws of gravity are correct but your argument is not.

    What Sir Isaac Newton witnessed was relative to earths gravitational pull which is constant …because the relative gravitational pull of any object he dropped whether its weight is one ounce or 50 lbs is virtually non existent relative to the earths ….likewise with the free fall speed of the twin towers…same rate relative to the earth.

    But in space two earth size bodies with equal mass would attract to each other at a much faster rate than an earth size body and a small asteroid.”

    But then you add at the end of the very same message:

    “The exact same principle is true for large bodies in space with equal gravitational pull…the gravitational pull of each is constant…which is the law…but the speed at which they are drawn to each other is a multiplied by both gravitational pulls….this is an absolute fact, Carroll….and it has no bearing on the collapse of the twin towers or its rate of speed.

    There is only one way it would…If , lets say . the top floor of the twin towers had an equal mass and gravitational pull as the earth itself…then the top floor of the twin towers would actually pull the earth at the same rate the earth would pull the twin towers resulting in a collision in half the time.”

    You go out of your way to inject a rather esoteric principle that you concede only applies in outer space between large objects of relatively equal size but concede that the principle does not apply to objects, such as the World Trade Center Towers, on Planet Earth. I’m left scratching my head about your purpose in introducing into the discussion a somewhat sophisticated concept of physics which you openly admit has no role in explaining the pattern of the collapse of the Twin Towers. After all, there were called the “World Trade Center Towers,” not the “Outer World Trade Center Towers.” As tall as they were, the Towers did not extend into outer space, and their collapse were subject to Sir Isaac Newton’s laws of physics. Then I realized you are one of Wizard of Ooze’s “trolls,” and you are simply doing what trolls do.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @Shooter
  212. L.K says:

    Nice article, Mr.Giraldi.

    It was the zionists through their various agents who pulled the 9-11 terrorist attacks.

    I find the work of the brave US investigative jornalist Christopher Bollyn to be the best in demonstrating and carefully documenting the israeli/zionist connection to 9-11.
    He has made his book freely available at http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

    Mr.Giraldi, if you haven’t yet, read his book, highly recommended.

    Following r 2 great presentations/interviews with Bollyn:

    Solving 911 Ends the War – Christopher Bollyn 2015

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_Ezjm7xDg&feature=youtu.be

    9/11, Israel & the Mossad Investigated with Christopher Bollyn

    Some very good points concerning zionist involvement in 9-11 are made by Dr. Alan Sabrosky, a Vietnam veteran, graduate of the U.S. Army War College, with teaching and research appointments having included the United States Military Academy & the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
    Israel DID 9/11 (Israeli Mossad) / interview with Dr. Alan Sabrosky

  213. L.K says:

    The official 9-11 story is ridiculous and doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
    It’s important to remember that even several of the high level 9-11 commissioners exhibited doubts as to the work of the commission. Here are some quotes:

    9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton said “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue ”

    9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”

    9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”

    9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .” He also said that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking.

    And the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened“. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.” And he said: “It’s almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA’s New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened”

    • Replies: @alexander
  214. L.K says:

    Through the excellent writings of Dr.Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy during the Reagan administration and former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, I became aware of some of the best documentaries on 9-11.
    For me, the best one is ‘September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor’, an extensive examination of many of the aspects of 9/11. It is particularly great bc it presents in detail the arguments of those who pretend to have debunked the ‘truthers’ and in turn demolishes them.
    September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor

    http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=167

    Directly at;
    “September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor” – Full version (1/3)

    For a factual explanation of 9/11, watch this film:

    Here is a presentation by Pilots For 9/11 Truth:

  215. @RobinG

    I realize you’ve boxed into a corner and there’s no way out But attempting to escape by resorting to utterly ridiculous statements having not a shred of credibility, strikes me as pathetic behavior. As to my comments and video relating to the shoot-down of Flight 93, Dick Cheney plainly stated that he gave the order after receiving George Bush’s permission to do so. However, the validity of his statement that George Bush had given prior approval for the shoot-down appears highly unlikely to have occurred. As far as George Bush’s statement about seeing the 1st plane hit the 1st building, he plainly stated (while talking to a group a few months later) that that he saw the 1st plane hit the building on a commercial TV set while waiting in entrance lobby of the school to present the kids with a reading lesson. If you go back and re-read my post, you will see that I plainly stated that by making this claim, he was either a consummate liar (which everyone knows he is) or that he actually did watch the plane hit the building on a closed circuit TV link that would have been provided by his Secret Service escort. Which if he watch it on closed circuit TV is not at all far-fetched since the Secret Service always provides presidents with real-time, up-to-the second news and information that’s remotely related to national security. Also, as to Flight 93 being shot down, Donald Rumsfeld who was in charge at the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11 also once slipped-up and blurted-out that the plane had been shot down.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  216. Marty T says:

    Yeah, the neo-Nazi conspiracy theory that “the Jews” did 9/11 when every single hijacker was an Arab Muslim. Mr. Giraldi, in every column, basically endorses bringing back concentration camps for Jews in so many words. He’d rather put every one of America’s problems on Jews than concentrate on the real enemies.

    • Disagree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @annamaria
  217. Marty T says:
    @Art

    So the Muslim murderer hated Jews, killed dozens of all types, and that’s the Jew’s fault, not the Muslim’s? Just making sure your illness is really that severe.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  218. alexander says:
    @tbraton

    Well tbraton,

    Since I never” complained “about the Maverick issue being ‘off topic”…why would you find it amusing that I chose to address the “alleged “off topic issue of gravitational bodies in space relative to the rate of free fall of the twin towers and the rates of free fall in general ?

    My point was not to undermine Carroll Prices argument about the free fall speed of the twin towers..Not at all.There was nothing to undermine…….My point was only to contribute to our general knowledge of gravity, …by adding “an example” where two bodies in space would “indeed” travel at a faster rate towards each other…and why !

    thinking that it was interesting and worth mentioning……because it” kinda” is.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  219. alexander says:
    @L.K

    Wow…..very interesting ! good comment.

  220. @Marty T

    which explains why ISIS is attacking Israel so ferociously, and targeting Jewish community centers, Jewish day schools, synagogues, and other uniquely-Jewish gathering places to carry out mass killings.

    must be Jewish high-intelligence that clarifies the perfect logic of these situations.

  221. tbraton says:
    @alexander

    “Since I never” complained “about the Maverick issue being ‘off topic”…”

    Well, “Alexander,” this is what you stated in your first line of the post dealing with “Maverick”:

    “Is there any specific causal link with “Maverick” and the five dancing Israeli’s ?”

    While you didn’t use the term “off topic,” that certainly appeared to be the gist of your observation, even though, as I have pointed out, my original reference to “Maverick” had something to do with the collapse of the Twin Towers but absolutely nothing to do with the “dancing Israelis.” That didn’t stop you from engaging in an extended comic riff invoking “Maverick,” such as your highly improbable speculation that the “dancing Israelis” were laughing because they were recalling an old (40+ years old) episode of “Maverick.” I would venture a guess that none of those five Israelis who were observed celebrating the fall of the WTC Tower probably couldn’t tell one word about that old American TV series. What I find amusing, Alexander, is that you and your leader Wizard of Ooze recognize the damage of having five Israelis caught on camera wildly celebrating the collapse of an iconic American landmark. That certainly was not the reaction of just about every American and most foreigners who had any sense of humanity. That was some pretty despicable conduct by citizens of a country that purports to be America’s “closest and most important ally,” don’t you think? BTW can you name one war in modern Israel’s 67-year history where Israelis fought in foxholes next to American soldiers, because I can’t recollect even one?

    As far as your invocation of physical laws in outer space, I have one question. What possible relevance does that have to the collapse of the WTC Towers, which were located in Manhattan and not outer space? Why invoke totally irrelevant information that has, by your own admission, absolutely no relevance to the topic being discussed? Are you even capable of giving a straight answer to straight questions, troll?

  222. alexander says:

    Dear Tbraton,

    There are many things that simply transcend my intellect to understand. It is a non issue for me to say it….

    When there is something that perhaps transcends your intellect to understand it…no matter how many times it is explained to you (as honestly and forthrightly as possible)…maybe you should just admit that fact also ?

    because it is becoming abundantly clear to me…that this may be an instance where that is, indeed, the case.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  223. RobinG says:
    @alexander

    Can I steal this, to send to Carroll Price? LOL.

  224. annamaria says:
    @Marty T

    You have inadvertently reminded the readers about the Gaza Ghetto, the largest concentration camp controlled by Israel now. And who are these “real enemies” of the US? – ISIS, ISIL, Nusra, AlQaida? They actually are not: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/07/the-incredible-shrinking-president/ And why have none of these “real enemies” (the liver-eaters and head-choppers) never attacked Israel, Turkey, and Gulf monarchies? – Because they are the best and most needed friends of Israel, Turkey, and Gulf monarchies. The PNAC plans need these friends.

    “The Obama administration early on decided to “not do stupid shit”, like occupying countries such as Iraq. By itself, laudably prudent. Alas, one must not make the mistake of assuming, based on that, a lack for appetite for destruction intervention. Interventions would of course take place, the sly and smart ‘soft power’ way (neatly branded and twittered), and if force was needed, it would come through deputised local proxies, balanced from offshore ‘led from behind’ – in the case of Syria, through Turkey, the Gulfies, and to a lesser extent, Israel.
    Taking on Syria was probably concocted in DC as an “assurance” to the Israelis and the Gulfie monarchs to help them over their hysteria over the Iran deal. Normalisation with Iran perhaps, but only if it is ‘defanged’ and it’s greater influence (handed to Iran by the destruction of Iraq by the hapless hands of the Bushmen) curtailed.
    Israelis, Gulfies or Turks have made demands for US guarantees, quietly firmly in pursuit of their own goals: Turkish neo-ottoman irredentism or Erdogan’s brand of Islamic pan-Turkism. With the Saudis and the Gulfies Wahhabi chauvinism and the goal of Sunni hegemony to the Mediterranean. With the Israelis it’s about the Golan, and of course, about getting back at their nemesis Hezbollah. It’s hard to not notice the impatience and independence shown by the Turks (especially in their attempts to draw the US into Syria) and the Saudis (their unannounced aggression against Yemen). These also indications that ‘leading from behind’ didn’t suffice to reassure these “special needs” proxies. It also calls into question the ability of the US to effectively exercise leadership over these trigger happy “allies.”

  225. @geokat62

    “Even though Mr. Kaufman’s relatives were murdered in the holocaust and he grew up an ardent supporter of the state of Israel, he is now calling for international sanctions against a regime that he has no hesitation admitting is even worse than the apartheid regime in SA.”

    And Kaufman himself: “My grandmother did not die to provide Israelis cover to murder Palestinian grandmothers.”

    Kaufman’s a man of moral clarity, a man of simple decency. He recognizes Israel and its degenerate leader NuttyYahoo for what they are: Zionist depravity.

  226. Sam Shama says:
    @Carroll Price

    ‘Any further questions’

    Yeah, a few. Are you 65+ years in age?

    Do you really understand physics?

    Since it is more than a bit suspicious when someone writes:

    “……..was that the speed (actually rate of acceleration) remains the same for all falling objects regardless of their mass (weight)”

    the fact that you could even carelessly equate speed with acceleration due to gravity, indicates that you are spouting what you probably read from some internet site yesterday, without understanding what you wrote.

    Anyway, I think you might be better off baking some cookies or sum’n.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  227. @Sam Shama

    The cookies sound like a great idea. But since no one else has done it, maybe I should spend a few of my retirement years perfecting the art of making soap out of Jewish fat. Breaking up the monotony by throwing in a couple of lamp shades every now and then.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Aqualung
  228. RobinG says:
    @Carroll Price

    Dear Carroll,

    I apologize for using complex sentences before.

    Cheney said he gave an order.
    Maybe Flight 93 was shot down.
    Maybe they lied about Flight 93 being shot down.
    That does not tell you anything about who brought the twin towers down. Or how.

    Bush said he saw “a plane hit”.
    At 8:50 AM, CNN showed video of smoking WTC.
    By about 9am all TV stations showed smoking WTC, and the commentators had said that “a plane hit” the building.
    You don’t like Bush’s phrasing.
    You’re sure you can convince some morons that this is ‘proof’ of secret video feed.

    So, the videos you posted are only a pointless diversion from 911 truth,
    You probably know this, but don’t want to admit it.
    TOO BAD YOU ARE MAKING A MOCKERY OF YOUR OWN CAUSE.

  229. @Rurik

    Great comment. I’ve taken to using the term “coincidence theorist” to counter the dismissive conspiracy theorist label.

  230. @Junior

    Right on glad you liked it. Ry is a heck of a researcher, just released a new doc, Empire Unmasked. His website is the Anti Neocon Report, plus a YouTube channel, Ry Dawson I believe. I’d link but I’m on my phone. The new doc is $25-I’ve yet to see it. It’s five hours though. And years in the making. Good on ya for sharing, that’s great.

  231. @Moi

    Nice. Thanks for the chuckle :-)

  232. Sam Shama says:
    @Carroll Price

    wow!!
    I think you sound like you really are capable of those acts in your basement!

  233. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    phil
    this story is the absolute holy grail of the 911 truth movement!
    i have analyzed this thing up and down so much as reading the entire newark FBI field report about the jews being picked up.
    you miss a very important part here. by far the most important thing found in the van were maps of new york city landmarks highlited in yellow. you just cant write that off!
    this to me is the most damning connection of jew israelicomplicity in 911.
    you also shockingly missed another very important thing that police bomb sniffing dogs positively identified bomb chemical residue in the van
    another very important thing is the lone american working at urban movers broke down and cryed before 911 when one of the israel jews arrogantly said to him “give us 20 years and we’ll ruin your country!”
    another inportant issue is the jews claimed they were just driving down the road in jersey, heard on the radio about the plane crashing into the WTC, and just happened to pull into a private parking lot with a perfect view of the towers, set up multiple videocameras on the roof, and then began to wildly celebrate like drunken teenagers when the FIRST plane hit when everybody else just thought it was a horrible aviation accident.
    so, why would anybody in their right mind wildly celebrate about a plane accidentally crashing into a building unless they knew it wasn’t accidental.
    theres only one reason; their mission had been accomplished
    this all is to me is proof positive that these dancing jews were not just survielling the arabs but they were inextricably involved with them in their mission to attack the wtc and us real americans!

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  234. @Anonymous

    The dancing Jews you refer to were Mossad agents. This specific group, consisted of four individuals, who were members of a large group of fellow agents. With this particular group being assigned the job of “recording the event”. While other members of the same group served as spies posing as art students. With a 3rd, more important group, serving as monitors and coaches to “air-line pilot students” destined to become to fly hi-jacked airliners into buildings on 9/11. With this later group of “Muslim terrorist” on the night proceeding 9/11, showing up intoxicated at titty bars and other unlikely places, uttering strange statements relating to suicide missions for Allah. Strange isn’t it that with millions of titty bars scattered throughout the country that the presence and statements of this particular group of individuals would be observed and their statements recorded for the purpose of providing this specific information to the MSM so on the following day (9/11) their names and mug-shots could be identified and plastered on every TV screen in the world as the Muslim terrorist who had hi-jacked the four airliners that very morning.
    Brain-dead Americans are the only people in the world who would even consider such obviously staged ruses and lies as anything other than what they were. Yet, a majority still do so.
    Please read (or re-read) post #162 in which I explain the most logical method used to hijack the airliners on 9/11. With information contained in post #162 being based on detailed knowledge I have gained from programming computer controlled Process Control Systems for over 30 years.
    While, at the same time, bearing in mind that FLIGHT CONTROLLERS installed in aircraft (including commercial airlines and fighter planes) perform the exact same functions as PROCESS CONTROL SYSTEMS used in virtually all modern industrial facilities. Where pre-programmed Process Control Systems are used to accurately read input signals from temperature monitors, pressures monitors, flow monitors, and other devices where these input signals are analyzed by the process controller for the purpose of generating output signals to control valves, heaters, switches, and other devices used to control temperatures, pressures, flows and various other parameters found in chemical plants, power plants, and virtually all modern industrial facilities producing consumer products of every description. While keeping in mind that corresponding inputs such as compass headings, air speed, altitude, aircraft position (as determined by GPS coordinates), and various other inputs are used by pre-programmed FLIGHT CONTROLLERs on the aircraft to produce output signals necessary to position tail rudders, wing foils, and other control surfaces used on aircraft to, with great accuracy, fly them to specific destina

  235. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Kiza

    Termites brought down the WTC?

    Wow!

  236. van says:

    They west- and their stooges turkey, UK, and the US, – is behind ISIS. Thats why the flow of money from their oil goes un-bombed mostly by the US.
    Russia is bombing them like crazy. The motives behind the various powers becomes clear with the one unifying principle-

    Israel hates Iran, Syria under Assad, and Russia

    because
    Hezbollah, a cats paw of Iran , actually beat the Israeli army and tossed them out of Lebanon in 2006

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War

    This makes Israeli furious that they are not regional hegemon . The flow of power flows from Hezbollah back to Iran and ultimately to Russia.
    Syria under Assad is an enemy since 1967, and represents a secular threat and limitation to Israeli power,- also backed by Russia.

    Israel is even directly helping ISIS fighters, treating them in Israeli hospitals, and releasing them back to combat- against who? Assad’s Syrian troops and Russia- thats who.

    Russia has shown miles of oil convoys going back to Turkey to be sold.- US air assets mostly do nothing. Obama muttered something about those poor innocent truck drivers and not wanting to hurt no muzzies. What a Crock. McCain urged the US to back al-Nusra also known as al-Qaeda in Syria.

    This recent nexus between al qaeda and the US for some strategic operation should ( but mostly does not in the US media anyway ) make more plausible that 911 was
    carried out with knowledge of the US to make a pearl harbor so that we would all be in the same fox hole with Israel – essentially forever. Iraq, and Afghanistan followed and here we are- in this war of civilizations with the muzzies, cementing forever the nexus between US and Israeli interests.
    (google Dancing Israeli’s)

    This new cold war with Russia could really lead to world war III. These stories are all over the INTERNET, but nobody in the main stream US media will touch them. All US political figures can only make gestures toward Israel, -You know who is your master by who you are not allowed to criticize.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/hackers-trace-isis-twitter-accounts-7010417

  237. alexander says:

    “You know who is your master by who you are not allowed to criticize”

    How fitting were this” truism” to magically replace “All the news that is fit to print” on the cover of the New York Times.

    Then its readers, from around the world, might be so disposed to” see” what can’t be shown.

  238. KA says:

    ““[W]hen Ted Cruz, on the campaign trail in Iowa and again in an interview with Bloomberg News, recently pointed the finger at ‘neocons’ in an attempt to defend his own understanding of American interests abroad, the response among some conservative foreign-policy experts – many of whom the term has been used to disparage — was of shock, anger, and dismay. ‘He knows that the term in the usual far-left and far-right parlance means warmonger, if not warmongering Jewish advisers, so it is not something he should’ve done,’ says Elliott Abrams, a former Bush administration National Security Council official and a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. ‘It’s an epithet. It’s always used pejoratively. And the main thing I resent about it is, it’s a label, it’s a way of avoiding arguments,’ says Eliot Cohen, a Bush administration State Department official and a professor at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies.”

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/12/16/gop-debate-triumph-isolationism/

    Neocons see the Republican ground doesn’t support the dancing feet anymore.

  239. Polymath says:

    Funny to see how the ignoramuses responded to my comment by reiterating the argument I refuted and by simple name-calling, without even grasping my point.

    I’m going to try to make it even simpler, not for their benefit, but for the benefit of everyone else reading this thread, so they can understand just how stupid those people are.

    Imagine a 3000-pound automobile dropped from a helicopter and accelerating according to gravity. The automobile, on its way down, at a time when it is traveling downwards at 100mph, falls on a guy in a hang glider who weighs 200 pounds counting the glider.

    Is the system consisting of automobile-with-squashed-guy-underneath going to continue moving downward at something close to 100mph? Or is it going to start accelerating from a downward speed of 0?

    Now go back and read my comment, and the replies which addressed me, and you will know what to think about the intelligence of those people.

  240. Polymath says:

    Their misconception is that somehow, each time the stack of floors fell onto the next lower floor, it instantly came to a complete stop before the whole stack started moving again. The deceleration that occurred at the collision was due to conservation of momentum and so was less for each new pancaked floor–when the stack was 20 floors high, hitting the next floor reduced the speed by 5% but the mass continued accelerating; by the time the stack was 50 floors high, the next floor slowed it down by only 2%, and so on. By the time it all hit the ground, the speed would have been approximately the speed of something freely falling from the top of the building divided by the square root of two (half the total kinetic energy, because the original building as a whole had the gravitational potential energy corresponding to the height of its center of mass).

  241. […] a detailed report on this fact, one can access the Center for National Interest Foundation publication.  CNIF has hosted several conferences of scholars  and others on current events at the […]

  242. […] Dancing Israelis”. Donald Trump was right about 9/11 but they weren’t Muslims: http://www.unz.com/article/the-dancing-israelis/ From the Scott Horton radio show […]

  243. @Kiza

    The military has enlisted termites?

  244. […] For more information about the dancing Israelis, read former CIA officer Philip Giraldi’s essay “Deep States: A Threat to Democracy?” published in ANOTHER French False Flag? Bloody Tracks from Paris to San Bernardino. A shorter version of the essay may be read here. […]

  245. jay says:

    Evidence of nanothermite in 9/11:

    Scientific paper:

    http://benthamopen.com/ABSTRACT/TOCPJ-2-7

  246. Al says:
    @tanabear

    You’re right. All zionist plot.

  247. @Kiza

    It’s obvious you misspelled THERMITE and I completely agree with your assessment. The ass-holes who gleefully jumped on your spelling error are hasbara trolls.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  248. @Tucker

    To confirm what you say about the Jewish predilection to demonstrate their world famous, and extremely infuriating habit of ‘chutzpah’, read the Old Testament. Who else beside Jews would have the nerve to brag and boast about the number of innocent people they kill? And hold annual feast celebrating the murders they carry out?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  249. Santos says:
    @epebble

    Yes that is what we can conclude from the evidence, but it does live a lot of unanswered questions like how would they be there to document the attack?

    One moral conclusion you can draw out of this is that Israel does not care about the US, Isrealis don’t care about hundreds dying, they celebrate it for what ever reason, so they should not be called allies but …. what’s that word for people that take pleasure in others sufferings?

    • Replies: @Simon in London
  250. @epebble

    That’s my impression. No one seems to have any evidence Mossad planned the attack, though it certainly seems possible they had prior awareness of it & didn’t pass on the intel to the US authorities.

  251. @Santos

    Israel certainly seems to lack empathy for countries that aren’t Israel. There’s a laser focus on Israeli interests at the expense of everyone else. I think Western countries tend to expect reciprocal empathy and we still get surprised when it’s not forthcoming from the Israelis.

    OTOH they seem capable of forming pragmatic alliances, so the trick is making sure it’s in Israel’s interest to treat you well. They’re not blinded by pathological altruism the way many Western leaders are, so they can ally with eg the Visegrad countries on an anti-Mulim-migrant line.

  252. @Carroll Price

    The ass-holes who gleefully jumped on your spelling error are hasbara trolls.

    No doubt. They, in typical fashion, are also showing their ignorance as well because termites, though they don’t destroy concrete directly, or eat it, are capable of significantly damaging buildings made of concrete, brick, mortar and related materials, not that is a factor in 9/11.

    It appears that one of the chief trolling tactics is to bring up silly and non significant issues as a way of distraction and to humiliate their opponents, and I do hope they keep it up. They probably will since it’s doubtful that they know little restraint…

  253. @Carroll Price

    …read the Old Testament.

    I second that. It’s no wonder that fake Jews smear the work every chance they get. Too much truth there.

    Isaiah[‘s] … relations with the senior m embers of the royal house, as described in the Bible, and the fact that he had free access to the palace, together with the complex linguistic style of his prophecies, suggest that he belonged to the Jerusalem aristocracy. This, though, did not prevent him from being an outspoken mouthpiece of the common people, who were being victimized by the rampant corruption of the ruling class: “What need have I of all your sacrifices? says the Lord… Put your evil doings away from my sight… Devote yourselves to justice;… Uphold the rights of the orphan; defend the cause of the widow”(1:11-17).

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/isaiah

    Sounds like deja vu all over again.

  254. @Quartermaster

    And, no, I don’t think our foreign policy is owned by the Israelis or the Israel lobby. It has been in our interest to support them.

    “Our” interest?

    What’s this “our” crapola? You talking to the dirt in your diapers or something?

    If not, then you better think again.

  255. unseated says:
    @Carroll Price

    Correct except that it wasn’t Newton but Galileo and that it was a thought experiment. However, Newtonian Physics makes clear that, barring air resistance, which would not be a significant factor in this case, gravitational acceleration is not dependent on the mass of the body. But it is acceleration not velocity. Nonetheless, it is difficult to believe that WTC7 could have collapsed almost symmetrically at almost free fall acceleration from the failure of a single column. As I recall this happened because, according to NIST, a single beam expanded from heat and slipped off its footing. If this indeed were to be likely, one would have to worry about the safety of all buildings designed in that way. A single point of complete failure like this would be a flagrantly bad piece of engineering design but no-one has ever been blamed for it. The likelihood of such an event triggering a nearly symmetrical simultaneous collapse in a building is vanishingly small. As others have pointed out, it is much more likely that controlled demolition was responsible, but this, again according to my imperfect memory of the report, was not investigated by NIST.

    • Agree: Wade
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  256. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @another fred

    Keep thinking that while the parasite rots your nation from within and without.

    Low-lifes like you will deserve every torment promised to you.

  257. Wade says:
    @Colinjames

    Thanks for sharing. I was particularly taken with the statement from the FEMA worker, Tom Kennedy, while he was being interviewed on the nightly news on September 12th 2001 (this can be seen in the video starting just before 39:00):

    Tom (speaking gingerly):
    To be honest with ya… we arrived Monday night [Sept 10] and went into action early Tuesday morning. And not until today[Sept 12th] did we go to work the full site..

    I’m dumbfounded.

  258. escobar says:
    @Carroll Price

    “…Cheney void of any soul or conscious”

    You’re not the one to sneer at Bush’s reading skills.

  259. @unseated

    What does it tell you when the city of New York flatly rejected the suggestion (in the form of a law suit filed by citizens of the city) that since 3 high-rise buildings had all collapsed as a result of fires, all high rise buildings in the city should be re-inspected and subjected to new safety analysis reports. Which all goes to show that the criminal collusion and corruption associated with 9/11 knows no bounds. Among many others providing misdirection and cover-up, mayor Rick Guilano and several other city officials were obviously involved in planning and implementating 9/11. For instance, who gave the “pull it” order which obviously required prior knowledge?

  260. @escobar

    Spell check. The last resort of losers like you with no argument to make.

  261. Ingot9455 says:
    @Quartermaster

    You can find video of Building 7 showing the damage to the lower three levels, starting at one corner and digging way in to the load-bearing supports. With the fire and heat and metal-weakening, that’s what ended it.

    • Replies: @Wade
    , @Wade
  262. Ingot9455 says:

    Just to mention for all the ‘fire doesn’t melt steel’ commentary:

    Think back to how a horseshoe is made. The steel bar is heated to a cherry red. It doesn’t melt, but it does become soft and easily bent. Then when cooled (especially if cooled in a special way called ‘tempering’ and then finished with a process called ‘quenching’) it becomes strong again.

    The jet fuel and the kerosene tanks didn’t melt the steel supporting I-beams, but they did heat them until they became soft. Finally, when the fire had gone on for many hours heating and softening all the I-beams to some extent, some of the most critical ones at the bottom, carrying the most weight, gave way.

  263. Krzysztof says:

    Dimitri Khalezov blames MOSSAD for 9/11

    Dimitri Khalezov – an expert on nuclear explosions. He is a former commissioned officer of the so-called “military unit 46179″, otherwise known as “the Special Control Service” of the 12th Chief Directorate of the Defense Ministry of the USSR.

  264. Of course they did: after 911 I revived my contacts, and the consensus was that was what happened and that Bush being Bush, had no heart, let them go and hoped for better days.

    Were it me, I would have inconvenienced them anytime one of smug toads show there face.

    It might not have worked but our leaders would rather look good and decent while their wives and daughters are being raped in the next room.

  265. @Ingot9455

    Carbon steel, which is the skeleton in nearly all modern buildings, fails at temperatures above 650 degrees F. It doesn’t have to melt to lose all structural integrity, it just has to get hot enough to lose the ability to hold it’s form against imposed loads.

    This doesn’t explain the uniform nature of some of the tower failures, most notably WTC 7.

    • Replies: @Anon
  266. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Giraldi wrote: “The FBI also concluded that there was a distinct possibility that the Israelis had actually monitored the activities of at least two of the 9/11 hijackers.”

    How does he know this? I have never seen the evidence.
    Is this public information?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  267. @escobar

    If you found anything in the post that wasn’t factual, kindly point it out… or STFU. Thanks.

  268. @Ingot9455

    So, according to you the blacksmith just heats the steel and then holds it up while it bends itself into the shape of a horseshoe? I think you’ve neglected to mention the roles of the hammer, anvil and the strong arms of the smith applying many hard hammer blows to shape the shoe. It makes one wonder why demolition experts don’t use the method you’ve described to demolish much easier buildings than WTC7. It also makes one wonder if commenters like you really are this simple minded or if they have an agenda.

    • Replies: @Anon
  269. geokat62 says:
    @Anonymous

    Is this public information?

    This is the best source of information that corroborates this claim:

    This news report in the Philadelphia Times Herald might shock the average reader, but its subject is surely familiar to longtime readers of Antiwar.com:

    “A memorandum sent to the 9/11 Commission, and Senate and House intelligence committees in September 2004, suggests that young Israelis who canvassed dozens of U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) offices in 2000 and 2001 trying to sell paintings to federal workers, may have been spying not only on the DEA, but also on Arab extremists in the United States – including the Sept. 11 hijackers who were living in Florida and New Jersey.”

    The author of this memorandum [.pdf] is Gerald Shea, a retired corporate lawyer. Shea – an alumnus of Phillips Academy, Yale (1964), and Columbia Law School – was associated for many years with one of New York’s most prominent law firms, in New York and Paris, and his memo reads like a lawyer’s brief: it is written with the same meticulous attention to details of time and place, and with a lawyerly regard for maintaining a high standard of evidence.

    Shea comes to substantially the same conclusion that I did in a series of columns I started writing in late December 2001, the substance of which is contained in a short book, The Terror Enigma: 9/11 and the Israeli Connection: that the Israelis were engaged in spying on U.S. soil in the months leading up to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, that these agents were concentrated in the two areas where the 9/11 hijackers lived and planned their atrocities – Hollywood, Fla., and two counties in New Jersey, Bergen and Hudson – and that they did not share all they knew about preparations for the attack with U.S. authorities.

    [MORE]

    Shea writes:

    “Why the Israeli government decided not to share with us all the critical information they had, and the extent of that information, is a subject for the public inquiry. They may have thought some sort of warning prudent in the event their surveillance activities later became a matter of public knowledge. But any energetic Israeli effort to assist the United States in preventing the attacks would not have served their strategic interest, in view of the disastrous effect those attacks were likely to have on the relationships between the United States and the Arab world. As a leader of the Israeli New Jersey Group said when he was arrested on the afternoon of September 11, ‘We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems.’”

    Students of this subject will not be surprised by much of what is contained in the Shea memorandum, but there are significant new details unearthed by Shea’s research and his thoroughness, particularly in tracing the parallel movements of the 9/11 hijackers (and their known associates) and the Israelis. Shea shows the Israelis had the means, the motive, and the physical proximity to track the hijackers’ movements and intercept the details of their plans. Of particular interest is how some of the hijackers came to be put on the FBI’s watch list – too late to do any good, but in time to provide the Israelis with a cover story if their shadowing activities came to light – which suggests a cover-up of major proportions.

    The “Able Danger” data-mining operation that supposedly uncovered the New Jersey cell of the 9/11 plotters was – for some reason yet to be determined – blocked and prevented from apprehending key figures in the plot, according to the testimony of at least three people who have direct knowledge of this matter. Shea’s memo opens up a possibility that may relate to (and explain) the “Able Danger” blockage: was surveillance of Arab terrorist groups in the U.S. subcontracted out to the Israelis, with the knowledge and complicity of the CIA, so that “Able Danger” was considered poaching on the Israelis’ preserve? Shea cites a piece in The Forward that describes Israeli covert activities in the U.S. as a violation of “a secret gentleman’s agreement between the two countries,” and avers:

    “The real question today, however, appears to be whether the ‘gentlemen’s agreement’ did indeed prevail here and, because we lacked adequate warning from our surrogates who were keeping the Arabs under surveillance, helped bring us to disaster.”

    Discussion of this subject is, of course, considered a hate crime: I was attacked by David Frum and others for even raising the question of Israeli foreknowledge – although, tellingly, Frum never mentioned the Fox News four-part series by Carl Cameron that brought this story to widespread public attention. What could he say, after all – that Fox News is a bastion of liberal bias, and prejudiced against Israel? I don’t think so.

    Of particular interest are the various appendices. The DEA report on the “Israeli art students” has been public for some time, but readers will find Exhibit B very informative: this lists the various hijackers according to their geographical locations in one column and the Israeli agents detained and deported or otherwise identified in the other. The maps at the end of the memo show this correlation in graphic terms: the effect is shocking. Whether shocking enough to shake the 9/11 Commission and our government officials out of their torpor remains to be seen. It brings home, visually, the significance of the following bit of dialogue – cited by Shea – between Brit Hume and Cameron at the conclusion of their first broadcast on the Israeli spy operation:

    Hume: “What about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on September 11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?”

    Cameron: “It’s very explosive information, obviously, and there’s a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected, none of it necessarily conclusive. It’s more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have known?”

    Indeed. Now go read the whole thing…

    http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/MemorandumtotheCommissionandSelectCommitteesbold.pdf

  270. 1. Look at the anonymous contribution of Ehud Barack BBC video. He mentions Bin Laden culpability even before anyone knew anything or the number of hijackers.

    2. The thread shows evidence of typical JIDF trolling, with pro israel comments coming in blocks with each others comments.

    3. HBD theory is enough to know the answer in the same way you know the race of the mugger or violent assault person in america in certain places without even knowing any details. The jews are the high IQ psychopathic leaning race of man.

    4. WTC 7 shows the official explanation is wrong.

    5. A commenter mentioned the israelis were monitoring the Saudi funded terrorists. I believe this is the correct interpretation of what happened: The saudi elite, which is part of a kind of alliance of gulf rulers who are loyal to Israel (quasi or fully puppet governments, like ours) actually funded the terrorists. This is the redacted portion of the findings. They also fund ISIS as Hilary mentioned in the Wikileaks. However, the overall operation and planning was done by jewish neoconservatives who have infiltrated all levels of the deep state, not least the CFR, which is the historical command centre of the USA. All human social systems select for psychopathy. Its just so happens so races of man have selected more for it for reasons of cousin marriage, nomadism etc.

    • Replies: @Anon
  271. Unfortunately, many crucial documents relevent to 9/11 have been lost/misplaced.

    Quite the mystery.

  272. If one adds first and last names of those 5(=1+4) “dancing men” (replacing “A” with “1”, “B” with 2” etc.) the result will be exact 700. Divide it by 5 (i.e., get the ‘average name’ of a “dancer”, so to say) and get 140. This, by itself, wouldn’t be something worth any attention if this entire event wasn’t impeccably aligned on the occult code “1 4”.
    So is “dancing Israelis”(=144). Perhaps the entire purpose of this “dance” was numeric too…

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @AB_Anonymous
  273. @Colinjames

    You folks are nutty as mouse droppings in a peanut factory.

  274. Aqualung says:
    @Carroll Price

    I hope a jew ghost from the nazi gas chambers hunts you down and murders you in your sleep along with anything that has been contaminated by your DNA (which is likely to be several Kleenexes and not much else).

    Wait, since the Holocaust is a hoax, how can a comment about soap and lampshades be relevant? IT NEVER HAPPENED, REMEMBER?

    Keep your nutty stories consistent, ok?

  275. wayfarer says:

    Seek Truth. Never Forget.

    Made in Israel, Zionist Engineered Terrorism.

    9/11 “Terrorist Attack!” = Self-Serving Israeli False Flag PSYOP

    • Replies: @Shooter
  276. Dube says:

    Certainly, for each of the three towers, the collapse LOOKS like controlled demolition. Start with that.

  277. El Dato says:

    what else the Israelis might have known or were up to in September 2011

    This has never been corrected?

    It’s unbelievable how time flies. It sounds like yesterday when the world didn’t seems to ooze daily insanity through every news feed and mobile phones were being used by people instead of people being used by mobile Internet terminals and The X-Files and Clinton-era bipartisan gaslighting were still fresh, but still…

  278. El Dato says:
    @AB_Anonymous

    Damn these jews and their pattern-hunting, pattern-obsessed mind.

    Cool Hebrew Gematria

    (a fun clip from the fuin movie Pi, though really Pi is a most uninteresting number; it’s even computable)

    (That’s why Ashkenazim are so good at Math I suppose. We need more of them. You never can have enough Math though you immediately have enough of Gematria.)

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  279. Miro23 says:
    @Mark Green

    Who will finally unravel and distill the story behind the incremental hijacking of America’s ruling class?

    Someone standing in the ruins of what used to be a productive, successful and respectable country.

  280. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @RebelWriter

    But are you saying that it in any way disproves the common sense view that the potential energy of hundreds of tons of upper storeys turned into a force which, resisted only by much weakened steel, plunged straight down where the steel had been weakened sufficiently (not necessarily uniformly)?

    • Replies: @RebelWriter
  281. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Why do you give such a fanciful version when the obvious force is from the potential energy of hundreds or thousands of tons of upper storeys when resistance is overcome?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Wade
  282. @El Dato

    Yes. Amount of Gematria (more precisely, its intentional and undeniable usage) is crossing all levels of sanity when one starts analyzing suspicious events in the last 100-150 years.
    From Abraham Lincoln and JFK (and his brother’s and son’s) assassinations to little kids murdered here and there for no apparent reason.
    From devastating earthquakes, explosions, sinking ships and falling planes, fake or real shootings at schools, universities, etc. to thousands of gruesome unexplainable crimes (many of which are known only locally), that look absolutely senseless to a normal person without “occult-reading glasses”.
    But for sick maniacs obsessed with “auspicious” astronomical dates and events, human sacrifices, “alignments”, etc. it all makes perfect sense.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  283. When Trump talked about cheering Arabs on rooftops in New Jersey a white guy in the rally screamed “they weren’t Arabs, it was Israelis” Security rushed to grab him and Trump said “Leave him alone, he is one of us.”
    very strange, very hard to know who Trump really is.
    He has to be Jew wise living in NYC, they even kidnapped his daughter and had her convert. She didn’t want to and they broke up then Rupert Murdochs wife got them back together and she gave in.
    What is this man really thinking?

    • Replies: @Anon
  284. @Anon

    Simple. Because in order for your theory to even begin to sound plausible you’d have to account for how the fires managed to heat all of the steel to the same degree at the same exact time, or a twisted and lopsided collapse would result. This is why demolition experts use precision times charges instead of just setting fire to condemned buildings.

    Thick steel takes a long time to heat sufficiently throughout, thicker steel takes longer than thinner steel. The temperatures attained by those fires weren’t nearly hot enough to weaken the steel sufficiently for it to lose its structural integrity in the way required to produce the symmetry of the collapses. Note that the glass didn’t even melt in many windows close to the fires.

    The only thing obvious to me in your comment is your desperation to convince people that the impossible is possible.

    • Replies: @Anon
  285. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Chris Dakota

    Do tell us where we can read up the Rupert Murdoch wife story – and the “kidnap” of course whic I’d never heard of.

    • Replies: @Chris Dakota
  286. Will says:

    I referred to them as “The League of Extraordinary Israeli Art Students”. They were active in Northern CA and made 4 or 5 attempts to sell artwork from portfolios at the offices where I worked at the time (1995-2001) south of San Francisco. I found their cover story to be very thin and suspicious and their artwork to be hokey and poor quality, wholly inappropriate for a sophisticated hi-tech office environment. Naturally, they had all been in the IDF, and one admitted to having been Mossad.

  287. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    The last time I read up on the engineering aspects it all had to do with the incredibly thin and lightweight floor and transverse structural steel allowed by the new 1960s forms of regulation. I saw a purported model where the floors and connecting joists buckled and the surrounding structural uprights collapsed inwards after which the difference between 500 degree weakness here and 800 degree waekness there really didn’t matter a damn. But then perhaps you are an engineer and can explain things properly?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Wade
  288. @Anon

    “I saw a purported model where the floors and connecting joists buckled and the surrounding structural uprights collapsed inwards after which the difference between 500 degree weakness here and 800 degree waekness there really didn’t matter a damn.”

    Pure and puerile disinformation, just like your comments. Try ae911truth.org and learn something of substance.

    • Replies: @Anon
  289. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    It certainly didn’t seem like disinformation at the time but perhaps you can say that it ia a version of what happened or could have happened that appears in various guises that can all be traced back to the same misleading source. Is that so?

    As to the ae911truth.org site can you point to anything relevant. I don’t recall finding anything in point.

    Mind you it was pointed out to me, maybe on a blog and not just to me that the site was way out of date. Maybe there is nothing new to be said but, if I remember the criticism correctly, the site moderators got there one in a thousand architects and engineers (real or wannabes) out of America’s onevor two million years ago and haven’t been able to sign up anyone since. Is intimidation alleged? Or derision? Or?

  290. Mulegino1 says:

    It isn’t “controlled demolition” it is controlled disintegration. There is no gravity collapse, hydrocarbon based office fire, conventional controlled demolition or plane crash in the real world capable of causing the disintegration – or molecular dissociation – of most of the steel and concrete components of WTC 1, 2 and 6- forget about the obvious controlled demolition of WTC 7- in the real world. The “official narrative” is complete bovine feces.

  291. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @The Filosopher

    “Look at the anonymous contribution of Ehud Barack BCC video”. Sorry but this is not a comprehensible selection of English words andvpersonal names. Help us.

    Was Ehud Barack recorded, ptetending to be someone else, as saying something tbat only a participant in planning or action could have known about the events of 9/11 at a time when what he said necessarily implied foreknowledge?

  292. @Anon

    I didn’t mean a literal kidnap, just that she became a Jew and now supports all things Jewish.
    It was Murdoch’s ex wife Wendi Deng who gave a party and invited Ivanka and Jared to try and get them back together. I think I heard of this from Roger Stone Trumps longtime friend.
    I also heard people say that the Jews trolled a bunch of Jewish guys past her and Chelsea Clinton until they took the bait.

  293. Skeptikal says:
    @Mark Green

    When we get the truth about JFK’s assassination, we’ll be on the track to get at the truth about 9/11. Not the “same” people, but the “same” dynamic of Deep State interests creating a catastrophe that lurches the US government in an entirely new direction, one that bamboozles citizens and politicians (those not on on the plot) alike. It is the demand for the truth that must be strengthened in teh USA. Also the stomach to stomach the truth.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  294. RandomGuy says:

    Yankee’s and Israeli’s will always think there are monsters under the bed. Yanks are an extreme and paranoid people. They also have to have an enemy and need to fight someone. If it wasn’t Muslims or Israelis, it would be some other infidel defiler that dares challenge Jesus’s so-called kingdom vehicle… The USA. Whether it’s blacks, Mexicans, Russians or some other phantasmal menacing force determined to end their world for them, it would have to be someone.
    Yankees are a military dictatorship, a brutal police state, inherently racist, with a government resembling a fundamentalist messianic cult. And don’t forget, run by the greediest of bankers. In short, they are Nineveh.
    Israel is an American child, they share many features and sentiments their father does… so I don’t care what they do to each other. It’s another white person conflict, a family affair, a domestic dispute between bankers. It doesn’t matter to me if Anglo-Saxon old white men made money off towers collapsing or Jewish old white men did.

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
  295. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    True but I get the feeling it’s going to fade into historical irrelevance before the majority of the general public accepts it was an inside job. Perhaps the same with 9/11.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  296. Wade says:
    @another fred

    I’m afraid you have not been fully apprised of the full extent of the FBI’s knowledge of the Dancing Israeli’s and “Urban Moving Systems”. The FBI’s own documents show that Israeli spies were shadowing the actual 911 hijackers. Ryan Dawson has documented all of this more thoroughly than anyone else I know of:

  297. Wade says:
    @Sherman

    You’re absolutely clueless. That the Dancing Israelis had foreknowledge of the 911 disaster was very well proven by documents provided by our own FBI:

    The FBI interviewed multiple eye witnesses that saw the Dancing Israelis setting up to film the event prior to the planes actually hitting the towers. The first eyewitness, the one who called in to police, states that she actually saw them first just 5 minutes after the first plane hit. Urban Moving Systems is located much further away than 5 minutes from the site at which they were filming. Not only this, but they actually changed their positions at one point to get a line of sight so that they could film both buildings getting hit by the planes. All 5 Israeli’s were interrogated and failed their lie detector tests. The 5 also all contradicted one another in their nervous retelling to police about what they had done. And all 5 “employees” of Urban Moving Systems had multiple passports to different countries and all had scheduled “vacations” on the day after 911. They were fleeing the country. One of 5, the youngest actually broke down crying during interrogation, retook the lie detectors test and actually passed. His interrogation was the most damning.

    All of this gets much, much worse. An Urban Moving Systems van was even pulled over just 2 1/2 miles from the Shanksville, PA crash site of Flight 93. This also has been documented by the authorities as explained in this video:

    (start watching at about 3:30 in)

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  298. Skeptikal says:
    @Anonymous

    You may be right re historical irrelevance.
    For myself I can say that precisely 9/11 made me look back to the JFK assassination and see in it renewed relevance to the new situation. In a sense I had taken little interest in the assassination. I didn’t exactly accept the official story, but didn’t read any books about the assassination—perhaps this was a function of my age: I was sixteen, in high school in Nov. 1963.

    As the official 9/11 story started to make less and less sense, I refocused on the JFK assassination as the “opening shot” in the downward trajectory of this country ever since. I started reading. The existence of the internet also facilitated my second look, since it was through the Internet that I learned of, say, JFK and the Unspeakable, and read it. So, to me the 9/11 increased the relevance of Dallas. And it is possible that future events—say, events involving Israel—will have a similar effect (I think that surveys show that a majority of Ameicans no longer accept either the JFK or the 9/11 official stories). Possible. Not predicting that this will happen. But it may. There is always the possibility of revisions in official stories—as has occurred also in connection with the founding of the Jewish State. A lot more criticism of this event is available today (I believe) than was the case in the last century. Historical perspectives do change. That is why it is so important to retain all documents and other evidence.

  299. Wade says:
    @Ingot9455

    While I appreciate your honest attempt at critical thinking, you are simply misinformed about the situation:

    Former NIST Employee Speaks Out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ_jQgIEnI8

    Architects and Engineers for Truth (full 911 documentary)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK86S-HZxTE

    • Replies: @Anon
  300. Wade says:
    @Anon

    Nice try… You should take a little more time to bone up on what real experts have to say though:

    AE911 Truth Full Documentary

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK86S-HZxTE

    Enjoy…

    • Replies: @Anon
  301. hallo Philip:
    I’m a locksmith in Miami and reading your articule about the dancing Israelies notice the similarity of the young israelies guys,with student visas, that for more than 15 years has take over the locksmiths trade as fake locks thecnitians and rip of custumers,as if there is no tomorrow.
    it is of national proportion carry out by supersofisticated and proficient ,military level phones and computer knowlege ,that deceive ,manipulate the search engenies like google and the phone company.
    The take over off the 411 calls centers,yelow pages,and search engenies where planed and carry out centrally ,masterful and nationaly by such smart people that for years and still today they beat google in the local listing and sponsors ads.
    I did call and email google,talk to local goverments atorneys (casual costumers)and even write to the fbi and told them that they where lookey this guys where not terrorist because if they where they got already an army all over this country.
    I told them that i never meet before in my life individual with that combination of been that smart and inescrupolous,simultaneusly.
    Nobady never answer.
    Looks to me that the student that came to check the muslims here stay and used theire tecnological advance to set a sacam of national proportion and in the order ofthe hudreds of millions.

    • Replies: @Shooter
  302. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    You have linked a very long video. My reason – excuse if you like – for not watching much is that the ae911truth.org people appear to be a long way out of date. Have they updated regularly in the last 10 years? Not as far as I know. And they have been seeking cosignatories from people who call themselves architects and engineers for 10 years and they still only have a minuscule fraction of those who prima facie know something about building structures, effects of fire etc.

    In turn may I suggest you spend just the time needed to read a New Yorker article (November 2001) and consider why the person with the biggest reason to say it couldn’t have been fire, weight and weakened steel, the actual structural engineer for the WTC, didn’t agree with those ae911truth people.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Wade
  303. @Wade

    I’ve never dismissed the idea completely that Mossad knew more about 911 than they conveyed effectively to the appropriate authorities befoe 911 but I am not sure your linked video starting round 3.30 adds anythinģ. It doesn’t appear to say when an Urban Moving Systems van was pulled over 2 1/2 miles from the Shanksville PA crash site. Anyway 2 1/2 miles? What were they supposed ti be doing? And why were police even noticing them? And indeed why would they use a labeled van instead of a hired car?

  304. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I note that the protagonist in your first link claimed no relevant expertise and said he wasn’t involved in the original investigation but 15 years later was stirred by someone to look at unspecified evidence and voice his inexpert beliefs. Fòr a contribution no better than this video let me say that I had the strong impression the protagonist had mental problems.

  305. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    See #313 which is meant to be linked to your comment wrt the first video you mention.

  306. Shooter says:

    Usually, I would have thought a really juicy story would have more information, but this article has less pomp and more ruffle than a ‘Vanity Fair’ article.

    Later on, we read:

    Now it is just possible that the Urban Moving Israelis were indeed uninvolved in 9/11 but nevertheless working for Mossad, which one has to suspect is the case.

    Via the sources linked, we do learn that these men were likely Mossad, working for a front company. Why they were laughing, we assume that they are celebrating the success of an overarching plot in which Israel wanted to wage war in the Middle East with the US’s help. Cut and dry, right?

    Earlier, we read:

    Or it could just possibly be part of a deliberate scheme to establish a false narrative that would fit nicely with Trump’s stated desire to surveil mosques, waterboard suspects and subject all Muslims to extraordinary scrutiny by the police.

    Well, it would be nice if this was a false narrative, but it isn’t. Even if Israel was never part of the picture, assuming Islam is a religion of peace is foolish. Assuming that Israeli was indeed lying all the time to provoke them, it would be that Islamic aggression is justified, and not their fault at all.

    I didn’t get much from this article, other than the idea that maybe Israel is involved, but no who, what, where and why. No serious investigation skills are employed here. Just summaries of the things we already know.

    If Israel orchestrated 9/11 to start a war and take advantage of a destabilized Middle East, one would think Wikileaks and other data leaks would finally open up the lid on that can of worms. So far, we haven’t seen it. It may be that Israel was aware that something was going to happen, yet never spoke of it. If Muslims truly are innocent in 9/11, then the West earns all that Islamic migration and terrorism. They’re doing it to defend themselves, after all.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  307. Shooter says:
    @Rafael Martorell

    You talk like a child for a locksmith, buddy. Spellcheck is your friend.

    • Replies: @Rafael Martorell
  308. Shooter says:
    @wayfarer

    It’s a Psyops, alright. That’s why we have obscure videos on YouTube instead of hard information that can cut through deception.

    Anyone who says they want the ‘truth’ and always want to seek it often don’t, because it would contradict their very beliefs.

    Conspiracy theorists love YouTube. I grant it’s the time stamps that give the appearance of lengthiness that adds authenticity.

  309. Shooter says:
    @tbraton

    You’re equally an idiot just as much as him.

    You go out of your way to inject a rather esoteric principle that you concede only applies in outer space between large objects of relatively equal size but concede that the principle does not apply to objects, such as the World Trade Center Towers, on Planet Earth. I’m left scratching my head about your purpose in introducing into the discussion a somewhat sophisticated concept of physics which you openly admit has no role in explaining the pattern of the collapse of the Twin Towers. After all, there were called the “World Trade Center Towers,” not the “Outer World Trade Center Towers.” As tall as they were, the Towers did not extend into outer space, and their collapse were subject to Sir Isaac Newton’s laws of physics. Then I realized you are one of Wizard of Ooze’s “trolls,” and you are simply doing what trolls do.

    You don’t know what ‘esoteric’ means, let alone physics. To you, buildings can’t possibly fall certain ways because you think they can’t fall that way. Ignoring real physics problems doesn’t make you a genuine skeptic. It makes you the classic guy who thinks buildings can’t fall at fast speeds and that jet fuel doesn’t melt steel beams.

    The plane was a hologram.

  310. Dube says:

    Back to the point. The Dancing Israelis were happy “to document the event,” and prepared to do it.

  311. @Shooter

    Spelling is not the point and for sure it is not the motive of you answering me.
    From the way i write you can figure out that im Cuban:” Shooter yo soy cubano asere y no espik ingli”

    In my trade i deal with every other kind off people.
    I have done jobs for 2, 3 tears drops gang members.
    I told Google that this Israeli mafia are worst human been than this gang members.
    I have seen them ripping of an old lady who’s grandson is doing the fight with the Muslims the IDF is afraid off.
    The real 2 points that im trying to get across are:
    1-my theory that this vast Israeli mafia came from Israeli military-intelligence trained individuals that where set free to do whatever they please once the neocon took over the fight for them,after 911.
    2-that is hard ,i will said it is impossible to find,in my 52 years never seen such individuals with this combination of been very very smart and with absolute not scrupulous whatsoever .
    Rafael
    note:
    Shooter am using Spellcheck.
    if you are happy please clap your hands.

  312. @Anon

    Since when did Newtonian physics become out of date? I thought they were timeless and eternal. Too bad that the video was too long for you. Some people seek truth while others are satisfied with shallow platitudes. Guess which group your answer puts you in?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  313. Mulegino1 says:

    Neither NIST nor the 9/11 Commission were charged with an objective investigation into the real causes of the events of September 11, 2001. Their task was to shore up the plausibility of the official narrative in an absolutely Procrustean fashion, i.e., to force the evidence to fit the narrative.

    The official (kosher) narrative of 9/11 is a ridiculous fantasy. In the real world it is an absolute impossibility. Could hydrocarbon based office fires on the upper floors – at or near the point of impact of the alleged “commercial airliners” have weakened the structural steel to the point of sagging or failure? Possibly over periods of days, but not within the ridiculously short time interval between the alleged impact and alleged collapse. And no office fire on earth is going to have anywhere near the required energy to turn most of the building’s steel and concrete components into fine dust. It is quite obvious to anyone who views the videos of the WTC’s destruction that there was no “gravity collapse” of WTC 1 and WTC 2. These buildings (along with the interior of WTC 6) were destroyed by some type of weaponry capable of generating heat exceeding the surface temperature of the sun. While it is possible that conventional explosives were used to cut some of the perimeter columns, nano-thermite alone could not be the sole cause of such an event. The most likely scenario (given the self-fueling underground fires which burned for months and the high incidence of leukemia and other rare diseases among the rescue and clean up workers) is that small micro or mini nukes were used.

    The official version is a total lie whose viability depends unconditionally upon the somnolence and credulity of a preponderance of the public.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  314. @AB_Anonymous

    AB,

    I respect your thoughtful comment which reached into the powerful elite’s passion for occult symbolism and corresponding dark deeds.

    As a lifelong Catholic, I say that humanity needs protective eye glasses to ward off the satanic light & heat combo of nuclear weapon proliferation & use.

    For an example, many here at U.R. remember that the first scientific test of an atomic bomb was done at Alamogordo, July 1945. Fearful scientist onlookers huddled & donned high intensity sunglasses for their “safety.” (Sigh)

    Most however will passover the fact that the pre- killing test was called, “Trinity,” which is also a revered Christian reference to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    Needless to say, but on September 6, 1945, an atomic bomb dropped from the “womb” of Enola Gay and mercilessly / unnecessarily fell upon the vast Hiroshima civilian population. (“The horror, the horror.” Joseph Conrad)

    Perhaps, AB, I intuit you are not a secular fundamentalist? And you may be aware that worldwide Catholicism honors each annual September 6 as the Lord’s “Day of Transfiguration.”

    Did the secretive Manhattan Project experiment’s CLIMAX (9/6/’45) require a real time transfigurative (mass murder) event to blasphemously demonstrate to all “Fools for Christ” that Jesus of Nazareth does not hold a patented monopoly on the effectual Way for human peace making efforts?

    Thank you.

    Selah dance Israelis dance.

    • Agree: Mulegino1
    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  315. @Anon

    I didn’t address that, just the “jet fuel won’t melt steel” argument. Dr. Judy Wood, a professor of Mechanical Engineering at Clemson University, addressed the topic you mention in considerable depth. Her conclusion was that “directed energy weapons” were used.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
    , @republic
  316. @ChuckOrloski

    Your answer’s timing is quite intriguing, accidentally or not ( sorry, but I’m not going to explain why).
    As well as your obsession with “Selah”, whatever it means.
    I also doubt that you simply forgot to mention Nagasaki (or considered it insignificant to be mentioned) in your detailed analysis of religious component of those tragic events in, actually, August (not September) 1945.

    So, I’ll answer you at a proper time for me.

    Thank you for answering my post.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  317. vetran says:

    So it’s not an inside job but a Mossad job?

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  318. @AB_Anonymous

    AB,

    THANKS for correcting my error on the month (August) the bomb was dropped upon Hiroshima. Fortunate for me you are not mean spirited and did not attack my larger (dark) spiritual point!

    No doubt I did not forget pitiful Nagasaki though!

    FYI, l like to use “selah” because that evocative (mysterious) word appears in the Book of Psalms and the late-Hunter S. Thompson liked to sign off his correspondences with “selah.” In addition, my use of selah used to piss off nemesis, Sam The Sham Shama.

    One more matter, AB?

    I did not really “go into detail” as you suggested because my theory about satanism and the unnecessary A-bombing of two Japanese is my theory; evidence M.I.A., hence, unproven!

    This disturbing situation can be compared to my thought which connects “evil doing” with the D.O.J’s having allowed the “dancing Israelis” to go home, minus any need for (justice) accountability whatsoever.

    A simple, decadent parable? Why do many American males enter Gentlemen Strip Clubs and attempt to get close to the stage and dance pole? Answer: They want to get up close when clothing drops upon floor.

    Common Sherlock sense: The dancing Israelis were on scene in order to watch (& get entertained) by the W.T.C. towers fall to the naked Manhattan ground. (Sigh)

    The only mystery for me is to get an inkling why they were held in US police custody for so long. Does the N.J. public have a “Right to Know” about the investigation Q&A? Any transcripts / video available? (Sigh) I suppose government terror EXPERTS will scream, “Fuck your goofy Right to Know laws … we are dealing with al-Qaeda madmen!”

    Selah Silverstein Giuliani Chertoff Zelikow Sharon.

  319. @NoseytheDuke

    Hi NleDuc. I see you are still at the ae911truth.org line of 2006 (maybe that was the out of date point?) that the NIST version is impossible so there must be a different version to be explored. Impeccable logic.

    I too don’t find watching a very long video appetising when there are shorter fully valid alternatives. So… remembering that the ae911truth people had an extensive FAQ section I returned to its website (and maybe the out of date charge needs to be modified. While they don’t seem to be garnering more supporters as to which they have a FAQ item** there App comes up as Beta version).
    An absolutely critical point if one is to apply the truther logic depends on the temperature which preceded the collapse. The NIST version has to be that the glowing molten metal seen streaming down the side of the South tower was aluminium at a temperature which was well below the melting point of steel but well up to the point where steel could be sufficiently weakened. A Dr Steven Jones is relied on by ae911truth to prove that it would have looked silver if aluminium and so must have been molten steel. I’ll come back to the molten steel hypothesis in a moment but now I would like you to join me in examining this critical step in the ae911truth argument. So far my online searching has provided this

    http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/aluminum/Aluminum_Glows.html

    What say you? And can you take the search further?

    I don’t know whether Steven Jones or any other ae911truth source gives any plausible account of how, precollapse, steel was melted and poured out of the hole made by an aluminium aircraft. My bigger problem is another 99 per cent impossibility, namely, the coordination of demolitions to be at just the right levels to coincide with aircraft attacks which might or might not succeed in striking at the right levels and indeed on both towers (if neither presumably the demolitions would have been aborted).

    **The FAQ answer to the “why so few signatories?” objection is that there are so many thousands of pages to read that it is unreasonable to expect many more people now to undertake that onerous task to achieve an unlikely official response. The everyday cynic in anyone over 30 would surely ask, in return, just how many of the signatories claimed read the material and are actually experts? Have you not had the experience or observed the gathering up of signatures from colleagues and friends (and if desperate just anyone at the supermarket or school gate)? Aren’t YOU worried enough about the effects of low frequency sound from wind farms even though you have never experienced it personally but want to help your friends? (I sign e.g. because I think wind farms are a waste of subsidising taxpayers and consumers’ money in Oz).

    • Replies: @Wade
  320. @Shooter

    Your scepticism is justified. Why would Israel or the most ambitious neocons orchestrate (at great risk) a reason for attacking Afghanistan?

    Remember btw that the Afghan war might have been aborted by Mullah Omar not believing ObL when he denied responsibility for 9/11 so the Taliban would go on protecting him.

    And who had the greatest motive for starting the Afghan war? ObL by a country mile. He remembered Vietnam and the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and knew what he wanted to happen. And it did. He won!

  321. @vetran

    Why the CIA / Mossad let the “dancing Israelis” dance is a huge mystery for me. Uh… beyond my wit? The chief shyps had to know though!

    This dance is among the strangest things I have ever heard about.

    However, as “by deception we do war” is their motto / trademark, I seriously consider that dark things are so (!) out in the OPEN that the “dancing Israelis” danced with abandon because they COULD.

    Only a rigged (high level) investigation and its pleasant outcome. Corporate Media stand down no surprise but…W.T.F.?

    Thank you for reading this, vetran.

    Selah Columbo Sherlock Holmes.

  322. The “someone would have spilled the beans” argument is often a good one. Let me throw in an unmentioned version.

    If Israel had evidence of a plot to make attacks on 9/11 with aircraft and had conveyed it to the FBI, CIA, State Department or whatever why wouldn’t we have heard of that forewarning, at least by now? After all it could be presented in a way that vindicates US official love of Israel.

    Of course anyone with the imagination of a conspiracy theorist could cook up just possible scenarios to explain why we haven’t heard. Maybe because it gave Israel a hold over important individuals? And maybe disclosure now would reveal that quasi blackmail?

    I suspect that some of the uncoordinated information that should have allowed 9/11 to be prevented if brought together did include some tip offs from the Israelis. Why wouldn’t they have passed on a few thoughts about some odd Arabs who seemed to be associated with one another and were learning to fly? But why, equally, would they want to embarrass those they had warned and advertise the activities of Israeli intelligence in the US? But that snippet of explanation suggests that we only need to wait – probably till about 2040…. then some old codger will give an interview and have a book ghost written.

  323. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @RebelWriter

    “Directed energy weapons” sounds a bit nutty but I gather that, on the way, she knocks out the ae911truth.org argument that it was molten steel pouring out of the hole made by the aircraft hitting the South Tower. That I understand is important because the burning aviation fuel couldn’t have produced streams of molten steel. Right?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  324. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1

    Mini nukes?

    What the fsck are you chatting about?

    Do you know what critical mass is? No?

    I hope you don’t mind if I put this in the Flat Earth basket….

  325. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @RebelWriter

    No need for this energy weapons / mini nukes nonsense. Well placed thermite charges will cut through steel just fine. If there are tough bits, a little pre-cut with a plasma cutter will make sure it fails when it’s supposed to!

  326. A need for “well placed thermite.”

    Well if such was the case, serious investigators would have a need to grille the owner of the three (3) W.T.C. towers and determine who had access to the skyscrapers to efficiently deploy nano thermite.

    (Sigh)

    The easily accessible old TV show Columbo could show Mr. Mueller how such could have been done.

  327. To all including Mr. Giraldi,

    Full disclosure, I keep vigil for signs of Zionist produced THEATER.

    The dancing Israelis acted as if they both knew and wanted to get caught.

    In fact, as all the real 9/11 Zio evil is out in the open, a future Director heir of Arnon Milchan’s legacy may one day produce an Academy Award film candidate, “Dancing with the Israeli Morning Stars.”

    Linkef below is a list of their submissions. Thanks for reading!

    Wiki
    List of Israeli submissions for the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film
    Israel has submitted films for the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film since 1964. Despite its relatively small film-making industry, ten Israeli films have been nominated for the Foreign Language Oscar, placing it in the Top Ten most nominated countries of all time. However, no Israel film has ever won the coveted award.

    Since 1991, the Israeli Ophir Award winner for Best Film is automatically designated the Israeli submission for the Oscar. In 2007, Aviva My Love and Sweet Mud tied for the award, necessitating a second round of voting which resulted in the submission of Sweet Mud. In 2008 The Band’s Visit won the Ophir Award for Best Film but was disqualified by AMPAS for containing too much English dialogue. The runner-up Beaufort was submitted in its place, resulting in Israel’s first Oscar nomination in 23 years.

    The most successful Israeli director is this category is Moshé Mizrahi who received two Oscar nominations representing Israel, and whose 1977 film Madame Rosa won the Oscar, representing France. Ephraim Kishon represented Israel twice, and was nominated both times. Joseph Cedar and Savi Gavison have represented Israel in the competition three times each, and Cedar was nominated twice.

    Submissions

    See also

    References

    External links

    Last edited 8 days ago by Lugnuts
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  328. republic says:
    @RebelWriter

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/09/gary-north/seeing-is-not-believing-steel-and-concrete-became-mid-air-dust-on-911/

    Dr Wood’s book has not been allowed to be reviewed in the 9/11 section of Wikipedia.
    It seems that an new form of direct energy device was used on those buildings.

    The video listed above was from a Lew Rockwell column by Gary North.

  329. @Anon

    Thermate or thermite would produce molten steel as it would white smoke, both of which were evident.

    • Replies: @Anon
  330. @AB_Anonymous

    For ALL occult-loaded events a digitally-charged phrase (a “spell” ?!) describing an event (as a process or an action in Present time !) ALWAYS exists. And for the big and complex ones it’s very common to have same kind descriptions for some (often purposely amplified by mass-media) parts of the entire event. All, naturally, aligned on the same occult code and evolving from the same (insane or not) idea of influencing the Future by certain “digital injections” (often mixed with human blood) in Present. For this particular sub-event there’s a 14(!)-words-long description, simply explaining “who and how celebrates what”, with its main gematria point resulting in 700/66=4200/66*6, and quite impressive remaining 9 points. Which with VERY high probability means that the occult component of this “dance” was at least as important as any other possible components of it (if any).

    • Troll: Wade
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  331. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    The issue was whether Steven E Jones had a killer point by proving that the glowing molten metal pouring from the South Tower where the aircraft hit was not the plausibly sourced aluminium that everyone else supposed but steel which could only have been melted at higher temperatures than seemed probable if all that was burning was aviation fuel and fittings. That the exothermic reaction of thermite (or military nano thermite as truthers later claimed) could reach the melting point of steel was not in issue. And if he was right that thermite was used to cut the steel structures then the fact that he was wrong about the molten aluminium wouldn’t of course be conclusive against him. However….

    It is worth knowing that the Steven E. Jones who is still critically relied on by ae911truth.org was effectively sacked by Brigham Young University over his obsessive behaviour wrt 911 and none of his colleagues in the BY Engineering Department supported him.

    Anyway you have prompted me to read up “can thermite melt steel”, “does thermite explode” etc. etc. and have come across both the Popular Mechanics 911 debunking exposition and what reads as a a judicious setting out in Wikipedia of the state of play on 9/11 theories.

    I regard the demolition theory as gravely undermined not just by the fact that all that was needed was steel weakening by heat and colossal weight of storeys above but also by the impossibility of coordination with the uncertain flying skills that were to take the planes into exactly the right levels. However, I would agree that it would be interesting if there were thermite leftovers in the debris. Apparently NIST replied to Jones’s allegations that there was no proof that any thermite he might be talking about came from the WTC site. Where are Jones’s samples now? Has anyone who still thinks he’s credible bothered to have their provenance tested by the kind of science used to examine the authenticity of art works? Apparently not.

    • Replies: @Wade
    , @Wade
  332. We should proceed cautiously when making assertions about the Jews. The temptation is to give life to long discredited myths of the dark past.
    The Jews have a right,nay,a duty to defend themseves. Think of the six million! They walked into the gas chambers,singing,SINGING!
    “Eidelweiss, eidelweiss
    every morning you greet me.
    Soft and white
    pure and bright
    you look happy to see me…”

  333. This is a very convincing an thorough journalistic piece. Check it out:

    http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/Final%20PDF%20of%20CounterPunch%20article%20re%20Israelis%2001-29-07.pdf

    Excerpt:

    What is perhaps most damning is that the Israelis’ celebration on the New Jersey waterfront occurred in the first sixteen minutes after the initial crash, when no one was aware this was a terrorist attack. In other words, from the time the first plane hit the north tower, at 8:46 a.m., to the time the second plane hit the south tower, at 9:02 a.m., the overwhelming assumption of news outlets and government officials was that the plane’s impact was simply a terrible accident. It was only after the second plane hit that suspicions were aroused. Yet if the men were cheering for political reasons, as they reportedly told the FBI, they obviously believed they were witnessing a terrorist act, and not an accident.

  334. I will add: The issue of Israeli foreknowledge can be discussed independently of what sort of other 9/11-theories one subscribes to. For instance whether the planes were solely responsible for the collapses (official story), or there were also explosives involved.

    And the “Israel knew what, where, and when but didn’t forewarn”-theory is a reasonable and believable theory, compared to many additonal 9/11-theories that are not as easily believable.

    That said, if the Israel-knew-theory was somehow definitely confirmed, it would cause an enormous and beneficial political earthquake, nearly on the same level as if controlled demolition was confirmed.

    • Replies: @Anon
  335. Wade says:
    @Anon

    You have linked a very long video. My reason – excuse if you like –

    Thanks for the response. I understand completely how off-putting it is when a random person on the internet asks you to watch a 2 1/2 hour long video in order to understand their argument on something. On the other hand, it’s a complicated subject which deserves a lot more consideration than most people give it. For 15 years I believed the government story 100% too. I was very skeptical about 911 “truthers” and I still am skeptical of most of them. So, I wish I have more time to reply in detail why I am convinced that the administration is covering up much of what happened.

    Here’s a much shorter and more recent video that surely you could deign to watch:

    Former NIST Employee Speaks Out On World Trade Centre Towers Collapse Investigation

    I’ll do my best to answer your immediate questions though:

    Have they updated regularly in the last 10 years?

    The short answer is yes. Here’s their new website: http://www.ae911truth.org/ .. Also, here’s Unz’s own Paul Craig Robert’s recent piece (http://www.unz.com/proberts/16th-anniversary-of-911-brings-new-development/): “16th Anniversary of 9/11 Brings New Development”

    Dr. Leroy Hulsey, a distinguished engineering authority presented his team’s preliminary report report on the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7. The report is preliminary in the sense that it awaits peer-review, that is, examination by other experts. The team’s research is more extensive than the modeling provided by NIST and includes a thorough examination of NIST’s approach. Dr. Hulsey’s team concludes that Building 7 did not come down due to fire.
    Here is the URL to his presentation:

    http://www.kaltura.com/index.php/extwidget/preview/partner_id/1909371/uiconf_id/36832722/entry_id/0_rxmrybkv/embed/auto?&flashvarsstreamerType=auto

    David Chandler is still very much involved. Here’s a new video published on 9/11 just this month:

    The Physics Of 9/11 With David Chandler

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcxWGvzthOA.\

    But back to your point…

    And they have been seeking cosignatories from people who call themselves architects and engineers for 10 years and they still only have a minuscule fraction of those who prima facie know something about building structures, effects of fire etc.

    Ok, suppose hypothetically that there are 100,000 architects and engineers in the United States that are fully qualified to weigh in on the subject if given the chance and that Architects and Engineers for 911 randomly mailed 5000 of them a questionnaire to ask whether they believe NIST’s account of how the WTC buildings fell. Now let’s suppose a full 90% of them reply that they believe the NIST account. What difference would this make exactly? We have at least 2 competing theories here: NIST’s and ae911truth’s. Have all of these engineers taken the time to review arguments from both camps and ascertain which theory best explains all of the facts? Maybe some of them would like to perform their own calculations first. Upon doing so maybe some would even like to posit their own theories. In short, it doesn’t matter what 100,000 anonymous engineers think if they can’t be bothered to research and think hard about the situation on their own. And there are many reasons I can think of why they might not want to get involved. One is laziness and/or not being very interested. Another is the stigma that you and I both know is attached to the subject. Many very likely feel that it would hurt them professionally to get involved. Hell, I’m reluctant to bring the subject up in social settings because of how crazy it sounds on the surface. At any rate, we should only be interested in the opinions of engineers and scientists that are genuinely engaged in the process and willing to disclose their reasoning/arguments. The fact that they’ve signed 2000-some-odd individuals should be enough to get you to pay attention.

    In turn may I suggest you spend just the time needed to read a New Yorker article (November 2001) and consider why the person with the biggest reason to say it couldn’t have been fire, weight and weakened steel, the actual structural engineer for the WTC, didn’t agree with those ae911truth people.

    Ok, if you send me an actual link I’ll try to read it. But first, if the article is from 2001, is this individual still active in the investigation and rethinking his opinion in light of new evidence? Did he bother to address how his theory of planes crashing can explain all of the relevant facts that need to be explained? So often when I read these sorts of things I encounter two issues: The expert in question only explains a select handful of facts while ignoring others and/or they simply assert their conclusions in a very self-assured tone because let’s face it, that’s all it takes to get most Americans to believe you even the “experts”.

    Tone, confidence and insinuation. That’s what got like 75% of Republicans to believe Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden’s arch enemy, was responsible for 9-11 long enough for us to launch a war against him. We were attacked by Sunni’s and we responded by killing 500,000 Shia children. That’s like attacking China for Pearl Harbor. And yet virtually no “experts” on the Middle East chimed in in any significant numbers to prevent Americans from attacking Iraq. That’s how reliable our “experts” have been on 911. I can only assume most of them are staying quiet for good reason.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Anon
  336. @AB_Anonymous

    AB,

    I know you will know that it’ s hard for me to follow your fascinating comment, # 339.

    Nevertheless, Mr. Giraldi shared that the FBI had particular interest in 2 of the dancers, believed to be Mossad officers.

    If such is the case, I can reasonably make the case that the Israelis “danced” on occult purpose, ritualistically.

    Two matters of interest.

    The N.J. lady who called the police and reported having observed the open & weird dance. Has she ever come forward in public to describe what she witnessed. Is her name available? (Many Americans ground level at the moment of the 1st tower strike had no idea that a passenger airplane hit it, and naturally took photos. Some might have dialed 9-1-1 in order to report the incident)

    Point # 2 concerns the film that the dancers recorded. Since the dancing Israelis are currently suing the US for being subject to denial of rights and abuse, I for one would like to view their film.

    Selah Jagger pleased to meet you hope you guessed my Mossad name sympathy for the diabolos.

  337. Wade says:
    @Anon

    I think you’re missing the point that melted beams were in fact spotted.

    From the video “15 Ground Zero Part 1 Melted Steel Beams and Molten Iron – ESO – Experts Speak Outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oVs_94VHk8&feature=youtu.be&list=PLUshF3H0xxH2FFyiA3OZnLA7WfjNxJmcO

    Professor Richard Sisson, Worcester Polytechnic Institute (my paraphrasing): “Perfomed analysis on a deformed and damaged steel beam. We determined that it was attacked (i.e. damaged) by a liquid slag containing iron, sulpher and oxygen..” In other words one steel beam had been damaged by molten steel poring over it.

    James Glanz, Ph. D. and New York Times science writer: “One steel beam had melted into a stalagmite about three feet high, like a drip candle.”

    Leslie Robertson, Structural Engineer: “And they pulled out a big block of concrete and there was like a little river of steel, flowing”

    The New York Times: “Steel members…appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temparatures. Parts of the I-beam, once 5/8 inch thick, had vaporized.”

    Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh, Professor or Structural Engineering, UC – Berkeley: “I saw melting girders at World Trade Center.”

    Jason Cheshire, B.S. Ch.E., Chemical Engineer / Metallurgist: “Overflights had detected with infrared camera 1400 degree fahrenheit on the surface of ground zero [USGS aerial infrared photo taken on September 16, 2001 showing WTC 7 - 1340, WTC 1 - degrees F, WTC 2 - 1377 degrees F respectively @ 8:22 in film.] …that being there for a week, um ya know indicates that there was something going on very hot below the surface.”

    Kevin Ryan, B.S. Chemistry, Former Manager, Underwriters Laboratories, 21 years in Laboratories – Analytical Chemistry: “So thermite would also explain potentially that the fires could not be put out at ground zero. The fires lasted for quite a while but um, most importantly they were deep within the pile where people would expect that the environment was oxygen starved and thermite could explain this because it has it’s own oxidant within. It’s actually the metallic oxide that provides the oxidant to allow the incendiary thermite reaction to occur even under water.”

    The New York Times, Nov. 19, 2001: “Two months after the attacks, Ground Zero is the longest-burning commercial building fire in United States history.”

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Anon
  338. Wade says:
    @Ingot9455

    Building 7 fell for 8 stories at the acceleration of gravity. This means that all of the support beams (and there were very many around the whole perimeter) were simultaneously destroyed at the same instant. What you just said about the lower 3 levels doesn’t add anything to the discussion. If the lower 3 levels were damaged at 1 corner and “digging way in” to the load-bearing supports before the fall, then obviously the load-bearing beams were still bearing their loads just fine at that instant.

  339. Wade says:
    @Ingot9455

    You do realize that this has never happened to a high rise, steel framed building before, right? But on that day it happened to 3 such buildings. The planes only caught like 2 floors on fire out of 100+ floors and yet the collapse of the two towers (both towers!) began many stories far above where a very limited fire had been burning.

    20 floors of the Meridian in Philadelphia burned for 19 hours before the sprinklers finally kicked on. None of the floors collapsed:

    Although in fairness the steel was concrete reinforced. But… 19… hours… across twenty floors!

    The south tower collapsed after just 56 minutes of burning, the jet fuel being confined to 1, maybe 2 floors. Yet 104 floors collapsed at nearly the acceleration of gravity.

    The north tower collapsed after just 102 minutes. All 104 floors.

    (Source for timeline: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/9-11-timeline_us_57d300d8e4b06a74c9f48c09)

  340. Wade says:
    @Ingot9455

    The twin towers only burned 56 minutes and 102 minutes respectively and on just 2 floors or so..

  341. Wade says:
    @Anon

    Why would the upper stories of the twin towers even begin to collapse onto the lower stories when they weren’t even on fire to begin with? Remember the collapse started at the very top, absent any fires, and then progressed downwards towards where the planes had crashed.

    Assuming what you just said is even plausible we should expect the collapse to have begin on the floors that had been burning hottest, longest.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Anon
  342. Wade says:
    @Ingot9455

    Pardon me, but I misspoke. 18 stories, not 8, were measured by David Chandler as having fallen at the acceleration of gravity.

  343. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    I don’t understand what you are saying. Indeed the collapse, that is tbe giving way of support, started at the levels where the aircraft had struck and the fires caused by that had sufficiently weakened the steel there. Don’t you find it significant that the tower with by far the most floors above the point of impact took much less time after impact to collapse? (In short the energy of the floors coming down on to the weakened floor(s) was critical).

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  344. @Anon

    Wade took the time to explain things to you and did so very well indeed, you should thank him. As he said, it is a very complex subject. I would suggest that you do invest your time in watching those videos, especially if you care about the future of the American people at all, and indeed, all people everywhere. A couple of hours is not a lot and then perhaps you’ll be able to contribute something worthwhile and patriotic rather than as a useful tool, willing or not.

    • Replies: @Anon
  345. @Wade

    Thanks Wade, your response is far better than mine would have been and I agree with it. Cheers.

  346. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    No I didn’t miss the point at all. You have now introduced material which on the face of what you quote supports the view that something needs explaining if steel in the buildings was melted but that no fire resulting from the crashing of the aircraft with tons of aviation fuel in their tanks could have reached sufficient temperature to melt steel.

    I haven’t time to follow up now but I am particularly interested in Leslie E. Robertson, the WTC chief structural engineer, being quoted because, as far as I know, this man with the greatest motive to support a demolition theory does not support it?????

    • Replies: @Wade
  347. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    As I have noted, what Wade replied with had potentially important information in it. But what deficiency of thought or observation causes you to say he “took the time to explain things”?

    Apart from wrongly saying I had missed the point (actually true of him and you in slightly different ways) he just copied and pasted and it was merely reports of there being molten steel.

    Wade’s ability to miss the precise point seems to extend to failing to understand the significance of the weight of floors above a weakened level, the inverse relationship of that weight to the time taken to collapse, and the problem of planning the correspondence of the demolition charges and the levels of the aircraft impacts. At least he has dealt with none of them.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Wade
    , @Wade
  348. Miro23 says:
    @Wade

    A very good reply.

    Tone, confidence and insinuation. That’s what got like 75% of Republicans to believe Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden’s arch enemy, was responsible for 9-11 long enough for us to launch a war against him.

    It’s the Orwellian Goodthinker method that doesn’t require any thought. Just tune in to what your trusted sources (TV, Washington Post etc. ) say, and hear your friends repeat it. The fake 9/11 story is plugged in to your group identity – with any counter talk inviting social exclusion.

    The Soviet Union worked the same way. Good Soviet citizens didn’t criticize government propaganda if they wanted to get ahead. The Party had the power, and the Party Line defined what a good citizen thought and said on each issue.

    It’s truly sad that the victors of Iwo Jima have lost their country to what is now a Jewish dictatorship.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  349. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    Thanks for that. It does seem that there are indeed questions which should be satisfactorily answered.

    I am still one of the “Osama bin Laden won” gang as someone put it and still see very big difficulties with the demolition versions on the South and North Towers but I shall go on withholding judgment at least until the molten steel business is cleared up.

    The Leslie E. Robertson who, as principal structural engineer for the WTC, had most reason to believe in demolition, but, sibject to what I noted about your later material mentioning him, did not, is featured in

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2001/11/19/the-tower-builder

    One of my problems stopping me from giving much credence to 9/11 conspiracy theories is that so many fiercely asserted statements are barmy or ridiculously improbable or just presuppose a state of the world and human reality which is away with the pixoes. At present, as indicated, I retain an open mind on the basis thay if unexplained high temperatures can be proved then there’s something fishy to be examined.

    As to how many have subscribed to the ae911truth.org views I find the 2100 or so signatories umimpressive not just because it is probably a small fraction of one per cent of potential signatories but also because I don’t actually believe – on a priori grounds from life experience – that more than a fraction of that number researched the matter conscientiously for themselves applying proper profesdional standards (whatever that would mean for architects) and reached the conclusions stated. And we know that the credit of Steven Jones, for one, though it is not admitted on the ae911truth website, is made doubtful by reason of his university unloading him.

    PS Let’s say WTC7 was brought down by demolition. It lends support to the idea that someone who could benefit from that event was apprised of at least part of what was going to happen on 9/11 – though it is even more consistent with opportunism once a fire had started in the building and the Twin Towers had already collapsed. Nothing to displace the official story there.

    Motive has to loom large. Why would anyone wanting to further Istael’s ME interests or to boost prospects for a New American Century start with a war in Afghanistan? American incompetence in the Muslim world and more generally in foreign policy might make one think Americans could cook up something as crazy as that. But those neocon guys behind the PNAC were not that dumb, indeed not dumb at all.

  350. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Trond Andresen

    If Israel (say Mossad and a few senior generals and ministers) knew anything much about the 9/1 plans and preparations it would have been careful to cover itself. It seems possible that it could now produce a trail of emails and other communications and diary entries that would show cautious efforts to tip off US agencies that would be just enough to exculpate it from blame. But who would want to release any such records? It would start an embarrasing wrangle. Was the FBI too incompetent to follow up the tipoffs? Was America’s little ally parsimonious with the truth?

  351. @Miro23

    “It is truly sad the victors of Iwo Jima have lost their country to what is now a Jewish dictatorship.”

    Miro23,

    My father Charlie was wounded by Japanese mortar fire “shrapnel” during the Battle of Leyte. As a child and when Eisenhower was president, my Dad used to show me the stomach scars which remained. He passed- on July 2002, and he was bewildered how the US military failed to defend the Pentagon on 9/11.

    Always a frugal Teamster truck driver, and a registered Democrat, he pondered the D.O.D. annual budget allotment and complained that “the Japs would defend Tokyo better than Bush did D.C.”

    The US Jewish dictatorship origins can be traced back to the English crown and the post-Revolutionary War period. Each year on July 4th, deluded Americans celebrate independence. For one, I am in total awe at how much money working class Scranton citizens spend on fireworks.

    At any rate, I am losing confidence that the “dancing Israelis” DANCE is like one of them old time “Hops” when 1950′s kids danced until they dropped.

    The dancing Israelis danced with abandon and had no fear for getting caught. The evil is so in-the-open that it turns my stomach. (Sigh)

    This article is about the dancing Israelis who had precise foreknowledge of 9/11. One Mossad chieftain lied to the 1st NJ police responder by asserting, “We are not your problem.” Sounds like a judgement to which he knew the
    US Department of Justice would concur?

    I have fading hope that this comment thread will climb down from the exploding Towers and refocus upon the treasonous ritual dance that happened across the river.

    Selah.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  352. geokat62 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Each year on July 4th, deluded Americans celebrate independence. For one, I am in total awe at how much money working class Scranton citizens spend on fireworks.

    Hey, Chuck. While the deluded Americans were celebrating their “independence” and spending their hard-earned pay on fireworks, these 3 Zionist billionaires were busy topping up the coffers of some of the leading groups that form The Lobby ensuring America’s independence was in name only:

    Bernard Marcus
    And Marcus is happy to put his money to use in supporting groups that have opposed nuclear diplomacy with Iran. In 2015, his foundation contributed $1 million to the American Israel Education Foundation (AIPAC’s 501c3 wing), $3.5 million to the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), $75,000 to Israel Emergency Alliance, $250,0000 to The Israel Project, $350,000 to the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), and $250,000 to the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA), all groups which actively opposed the JCPOA.

    Paul Singer
    In 2015, Singer’s foundation made a number of contributions to groups opposed to the Iran deal, including, $2 million to the American Israel Education Foundation, $150,000 to the Israel Emergency Alliance, and $118,982 to JINSA. Singer, according to The Atlantic, was the primary donor to the Foreign Policy Initiative, a small neoconservative think tank with a hawkish foreign policy agenda, before withdrawing his funding last summer.

    A 2011 donor roll from the FDD showed that Singer had contributed at least $3.6 million to the group.

    Sheldon Adelson
    Adelson, like Marcus and Singer, has given generously to groups opposing the JCPOA, contributing at least $1.5 million to the FDD by the end of the group’s 2011 tax year. In 2015, his foundation contributed $400,000 to Christians United for Israel (CUFI), $50,000 to the David Horowitz Freedom Center, $100,000 to the Endowment for Middle East Truth (EMET), $7.45 million to the Israeli American Council, $250,000 to JINSA, $1.47 million to Shmuley Boteach’s The World Jewish Values Network, and $1 million to the ZOA, all groups that have opposed the JCPOA.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/americas-jews-are-driving-americas-wars/#respond

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  353. Miro23 says:

    Looking at this video, it’s now beyond reasonable doubt that the towers were brought down by explosives:

    (a video to download – thanks again to Wade)

    I also understand the psychological angle in the difficulty of accepting the reality of the evidence.

    But, what’s really troubling, is all these intelligent and qualified people calling for an independent investigation. Isn’t that just what they’ve been doing for the last 13 years? – and we have the conclusive result. We know that government/media/NIST/CIA and FBI aided, and covered for the criminals who set up this piece of theatre.

    So, in other words, they’re asking the murderers to admit responsibility, put themselves on trial and sentence themselves, which isn’t going to happen.

    In reality, they need a higher political force to launch this investigation, and move things forward, and could usefully ask themselves where this higher political force is going to come from. At some point a POLITICAL decision has to be taken to make arrests and question people. The construction/technical issues were settled years ago.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @dcite
  354. @geokat62

    Hey geokat62,

    You are absolutely correct: “The Lobby ensures American independence is in name only.” Brilliant insight.

    Are you aware tomorrow is America’s high holy day, NFL Sunday.

    The nation’s eyes will be fixed upon what multi-millionaire pro football stars will do when the Star Spangled Banner is played. Will idolized players either kneel or genuflect? “That is the question.” Boo!

    (Sigh)

    I am wondering if anyone in hometown Scranton remembers how the Pentagon pumped multi million$ into the NFL so that US military power is showcased throughout the games.

    I don’t know anything about the Canadian zeitgeist, but mindsets here are looking great for The Lobby.

    For an example, yesterday and speaking as a school bus driver, I stopped at a Dunkin’ Donuts and listened to pervasive customer disgust for traitorous NFL players. One comical elderly dude recommended, “TV cameramen should focus on cheerleader nice asses!”

    Agreeing with his soluttion, I politely asked Richie, “Did you ever see the asses on the dancing Israelis?”

    “Ha-ha, Chuck! Are ‘ya trying to tell me that the NFL has expanded to Tel Aviv?”

    THANKS again & to paraphrase an old Neil Young song, “Long may this comment thread run.”

  355. @Anon

    Wade doesn’t need to address your foolish claims at all simply because if the weight of the floors above had caused the collapses (actually disintegrations) then any collapse would not be symmetrical, nor would the buildings collapse all the way to the ground, as they did, and it certainly wouldn’t occur in the same manner in three seperate buildings all within hours of one another.

    If you don’t want to be taken for a fool I’d suggest that you cease to impersonate one.

    • Replies: @Anon
  356. dcite says:
    @Miro23

    So, in other words, they’re asking the murderers to admit responsibility, put themselves on trial and sentence themselves, which isn’t going to happen

    Yes, that’s the problem. The inmates are in charge of the asylum. While I was growing up, we were told that in the United States of America, we had a free press and that was the most important thing, aside from the Constitution, that kepts us a superior democracy compared the unfortunate Soviets who only had a government controlled press that spewed predictable propaganda not worth reading. Kind of like the MSM of today. And they try to ridicule people who look at youtube for the truth. Where else do you look when you don’t have time to chase down the original sources, or look at Congressional hearings records. We know the Awan brothers and Debbi Wasserman Schultz have done terrible, treasonous things. Do we hear about it on the nightly news? The whole story is available in all its sordid details on youtube. No ridicule from the gatekeepers should keep anyone from using this tool. It’s a monopoly and should be broken up, but it’s just a tool.

  357. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I haven’t yet seen any evidence that you are not a fool so I shall bear without much need for fortitude any suggestion of foolishness from you.

    Wade is a different matter despite my quibbles. Actually I do have a problem with his description or nomination of where the collapse occurred.

    Since, however, you choose to make some positive assertions I shall ask you to justify them by e xplanation.

    Firat, what distinction are you makung between collapse and disintegration and above all why does it matter? (I wouldn’t have a problem with someone saying “the buildinģ structure collapsed and then disintegrated” but that is not what your words imply).

    Second why couldn’t collapse largely because of insupportable weight above a weakened structute be as roughly symmetrical as the WTC coĺlapses were?

    Third, why wouldn’t collapse under the weight of the structures above be “all the way to the ground”? Are you saying that the bottom 80 or so storeys would be strongly enough built to withstand the force of hundreds of tons of upper storeys crashing through the floors where the sfeel had been weakened by fire? How so?

    Fourth, if you have an answer to my third question how do you explain the collapse of lower floors if the initial collapse was a result not of fire weakened steel ceasing to support the upper storeys but of thermitic cutting of steel suports at the floors where the collapse began? Isn’t that equally a consequence of failure of support for the floors above? So don’t you have just as much problem with the “collapse all the way to the ground”?

    Fifth if you logically require demolition (maybe by thermitic cutting of steel) to take place at ground level so the collapse of all is “all the way to the ground” tben how do you explain the evident visible beginning of the collapse at the levsls where the aircraft struck?

    Once you have admitted your confusion and logical errors you may see that what has to have occurred for you to counter the heat-weakened-steel version is thermitic cutting/melting of steel supporting structures within the 79th to 86th levels of one tower and the 95th to 99th levels of the other. Then you have to suppose preparations by way of thermite packs and wireless connected detonators installed under the floors on about 35 floors were made to allow for the impossibility of being sure of the piloting of the planes (even if it was by remote control or programmed, but necessarily untested).

    Well maybe. Someone is watching the twin towers at a battery of controls ready to detonate the thermite at only the right levels and at a time foe each tower which fits with a weakened steel unable to support the weight above hypothesis that has to be the ofgicial version later. There’s going to be a problem later with aĺl the unexploded thermite. But there is a bigger one with WTC7 which is not goung to be explicable by reference to terrorist attacks and threatens, if thermite is used, to make people suspicious. Which then leada to the question as to why more than one tower would be attacked and demolished if all you want to do is create enough of a Pearl Harbour event without being found out. You multply the risk of being found out by trying to do it twice… though one is having to suppose the brilliant conspirators are also mad and reckless because they are involving four planes…

    • Replies: @Wade
  358. Wade says:
    @Anon

    Thanks for your reply. I will look more into Leslie E. Robertson since you are giving credence to this individual.

  359. Wade says:
    @Anon

    problem of planning the correspondence of the demolition charges and the levels of the aircraft impacts.

    Ok, this is a serious misunderstanding. We are simply not on the same page. I never said that bombs blew up at the precise time the planes hit the buildings. Whether there were any detonations at that precise moment are completely non-essential to the debate. Explosions were audible just before the collapses (the south tower burned for 56 minutes after the plane collision). Also, a wave of explosions slightly leading the wave of disintegration as the towers are collapsing is visible in the footage if you look closely. The following video puts this footage on a loop so it’s easy to see (start watching at about the 4:00 mark):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcxWGvzthOA

    David Chandler’s arguments are those you have to reckon with, not all of those”truthers” who have made wild, speculative claims.

    Wade’s ability to miss the precise point seems to extend to failing to understand the significance of the weight of floors above a weakened level, the inverse relationship of that weight to the time taken to collapse

    I’m not sure I understand your point. But let me give you my thoughts on that. What is visible in the loop above is one of the towers collapsing at a fairly constant speed. In other words, the collapse doesn’t stop and start. Nor does it slow down in the slightest. There were 104 floors in the building. The plane-damaged floors 93-99 of the north tower. This means that the majority of the steal beams below the crash site should not have been damaged in any significant way. After all the North Tower only burned for 102 minutes. The south tower only 56 minutes.

    Here is a description of the floors:

    The floors themselves are quite robust. Each one is 39″ thick; the top 4″ is a poured concrete slab, with interlocking vertical steel trusses (or spandrel members) underneath.

    What happened to 104 slabs of concrete? Well, they all turned to dust on the way down. I can find and post videos of both George Stephanopoulos and George Pataki in the immediate aftermath attempting to describe on the news were all of the rubble had gone. There were no visible floors or evidence of concrete slabs “pancaked” on top of one another as you would expect. Stephanopoulos was visibly confused.

    So, here’s the issue: If softened steel (floors 93-99 on the North Tower) plus any weakening from the kinetic energy of the planes hitting the building are the only causes of collapse, what energy source was available to pulverize all of that concrete and accelerate all of the material downwards as we see in the video? Gravity. That’s all. If that is your explanation, then whatever kinetic energy you posit was used to pulverize each successive floor must now be subtracted from the kinetic energy available to move the material downwards at the rate of acceleration we witness. In other words punctuated slowing (at the least) should be evident every time a floor pancakes onto another floor. And yet you don’t see this slowing occur.

    In fact, what you do see (again watch the video loop above with David Chandler) is tonnes of material being ejected laterally from the building at high speeds as it accelerates downward. Human bones were pulverized and ejected onto neighboring buildings like that of Deutsche Bank. This also includes huge steel girders that were flung as far as two football fields away from their original location. Where did the energy come from to accelerate these huge projectiles at over 70 miles per hour laterally?

    Apparently, “spring action” is proffered by defenders of the government’s story to explain this lateral movement. In other words the steel girders initially contracted and then sprung back to their original shape due to the weight of the material coming down above them causing them to shoot out laterally instead of falling straight down. Do you see the obvious problem with this? If the steel girders acted as springs then they were obviously absorbing kinetic energy and this should have slowed the collapse. Of course, engineers use springs to absorb kinetic energy.

    Why are you laboring under a Ptolemaic theory of 9/11 with ad-hoc explanations for everything under the sun? Why don’t you come over to our nice and tidy Copernican-like theory? Simply put: bombs were in the buildings. It explains all of the facts so well without the breathtaking, “Retrograde Motion” makeshift explanations.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  360. Wade says:
    @Anon

    After rereading your statement I realize you’re not referring to timing of detonation with plane impact but location of plane impact and the explosives.

    Still, I don’t consider this relevant. Explosive charges were placed along the full height of the building not just at the site of impact.

  361. Wade says:
    @Anon

    Second why couldn’t collapse largely because of insupportable weight above a weakened structute be as roughly symmetrical as the WTC coĺlapses were?

    Third, why wouldn’t collapse under the weight of the structures above be “all the way to the ground”? Are you saying that the bottom 80 or so storeys would be strongly enough built to withstand the force of hundreds of tons of upper storeys crashing through the floors where the sfeel had been weakened by fire? How so?

    The short answer is yes. We are saying that 80 or so floors would be strongly enough built to withstand the force of hundreds of tons above. The south tower’s bottom 80 floors supported all of that weight for 28 years up to that point. Why not after the plane impact? Ah, you mean because the upper floors were accelerating downwards. And what caused this downward acceleration of all 104 floors? The fact that the support structures had disappeared! What caused caused the support beams (in the core and the outer steel frame) to collapse? Acceleration from gravity!

    It sounds like you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too.

    Look, lets talk about the North tower. 104 stories in all. The plane hit and damaged floors 93-99 of the north tower. This means that the plane and 102 minute long fire could’ve only at most disintegrated 6 floors (99 minus 93) worth of support leaving the weight of only 5 floors to fall the height of 6 floors. I would imagine the floor 98 might pancake in an instant. However, subtract whatever kinetic energy it absorbs and that’s what’s left when it hits floor 97. Now subtract more kinetic energy. Then it hits floor 96, subtract, etc…

    That’s not what we saw. What we saw was once it’s started falling it got itself up to a certain speed and didn’t slow down or stop. Frankly, yes, it should’ve stopped collapsing and not collapse all the way in on itself. If the plane and fire really took out all the support of floors 93 through 99 then the certainly uneven damage would’ve more than likely caused floors 100-104 to fall off to the side. Instead the uniform descent happened on not 1 but 3 buildings on the same day.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @Anon
  362. I am sure they knew enough so that it could have been stopped, but I have my doubts.
    1. Bush is a weakling, he probably would not have done anything for fear of Saud.
    2. I am sure that the Israeli did not trust Bush or his people and feared with reason, that any disclosure would have compromised their operations. Given Bush, a viable fear.
    3. I am also certain that they were happy hoping the US might learn a lesson, which it finally did not.

    • Replies: @Anon
  363. alexander says:
    @Wade

    You have made some very solid arguments Wade.

    Thanks for them.

    About five years ago I came up with the crazy idea of creating 20 foot tall mock ups of the twin towers and subjecting them to the same strike force, in the same spots, as the airliner strikes on our towers.

    Then wait and see how the mock ups performed.

    I imagined videotaping the entire sequence, and even notifying my local police beforehand, so they knew what I was doing.

    It never got past the daydream phase, however.

    I am quite surprised NIST never made its OWN requisite mock-up and test samples before submitting its conclusions to Congress and the American People…

    Given the uncanny performance and disintegration we all witnessed…. you would think it would have been a very high priority.

    A very high priority indeed.

    • Replies: @Wade
  364. @Wade

    Wade,

    Speaking respectfully, please look less obsessively at what happened at Tower top levels and look more upon what the “dancing Israelis” ritualistically celebrated at ground level and what skyscraper owner Larry Silverstein had remotley facilitated to allow for the three (3) Towers’ incredible transformation into “pancake.”

    Selah Christopher Bollyn Solving 9/11 For Careerist Dummies.

    • Replies: @Wade
  365. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    I can’t claim to have absorbed every thought in your three replies to me that I am now beginning a reply to. However I acknowledge that you have outdone me in an imagined hypothetical. I answer the problem of having steel cutting thermitic reactions ready to go wherever the planes hit by suggesting the preparation on 35 floors. You trump me with stating it was all (literally 220) floors!

    What you have really done for me is make me look at a compilation of videos of the towers collapsing and check whether allegations of (anomalous) falling at gravity speed, not falling asymmetrically without non demolition explanation etc were justified. They were not.

    What I saw was that the miscellaneous stuff at the lower levels of the floors struck first did exactly what one would expect as the outside of the buildings peeled off and then blew out the dark grey mixed up dust and other pulverised material above the still momentarily resisting unweakened floor structures. After that, with the exception of a couple of large parts of the upper storeys that one could see through accelerating downwards in the way one might expect all one could see was dust and other lightweight pulverised debris which didn’t fall at 32 ft per second per second acceleration and obscured what was happening as the weight of upper storeys descending at accelerating speed caused lower floors to fail. (It should be remembered in answer to one of your points that the *weight* impacting lower floors continually, successively, increased even as the speed or acceleration of descent would have been momentarily checked by the next intact floor).

    As for the verticality of the collapse of perhaps 70-
    80 per cent of the structures which ended up spread over a wide area I saw nothing that one wouldn’t expect from the accelerating weight of the upper storeys being the destructive force for the floors below aircraft impact. I suppose some asymmetry might have been visible through the dust if the vectors resulting from differential heating and weakening on the impacted floors were large in relation to the vectors from the weight above but that is just wild speculation for us (and not answered by some general allegations about asymmetry from supposed experts I say by way of precaution against those who will airily refer one to some video or document which proves nothing like what they suppose).

    • Replies: @Wade
  366. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Tradecraft46

    Is this a (non-tesponsive) response to my #359? Perhaps you missed seeing that I was looking at what hypothetical Israel knowledge of some aspects of Al Qaeda plans and actions might logically entail.

  367. @Anon

    Hey Anon,

    Can you describe the 9/11 Al-Qaeda “plans and actions”?

    If K.S.M. is the real 9/11 “Mastermind” as advertised, long ago a real patriotic POTUS would have brought K.S.M. to stand (non-military) trial perhaps in Las Vegas where the Raiders are bound.

    But then again, The Lobby likes K.S.M. just where he (allegedly) is!

    Selah Revelation 2:9 I know the slander of of those who claim to be Jews and are nicht.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  368. Wade says:
    @Anon

    It is worth knowing that the Steven E. Jones who is still critically relied on by ae911truth.org was effectively sacked by Brigham Young University over his obsessive behaviour wrt 911 and none of his colleagues in the BY Engineering Department supported him.

    I do not see much evidence that ae911truth relies critically upon his work, although I’ve seen David Chandler mention his work. But I got curious about him anyway. This small excerpt is from his wikipedia entry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones):

    On September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU’s website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave.[30] The university cited its concern about the “increasingly speculative and accusatory nature” of Jones’ work and that perhaps Jones’ research had “not been published in appropriate scientific venues” as reasons for putting him under review. The review was to have been conducted at three levels: BYU administration, the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, and the Physics Department.[31] However, BYU discontinued the review.[8] Some of Jones’ colleagues also defended Jones’ 9/11 work to varying degrees,[32] and Project Censored lists his 9/11 research among the top mainstream media censored stories of 2007.[33]

    Jones’ placement on paid leave drew criticism from the American Association of University Professors and the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both organizations have long been critics of BYU’s record on academic freedom.[34] Jones “welcomed the review” because he hoped it would “encourage people to read his paper for themselves,” however the school abandoned the review and Jones elected to retire, effective January 1, 2007.[8]

    So BYU was going to sack him because his work is allegedly speculative, accusatory and not been properly reviewed by other scientists. So it stands to reason that since BYU which has a Mathematics and Physics department might do their due diligence by having their other qualified professors review Mr. Jones’s work before they canned the National Merit Scholar. Jones welcomed the review. Apparently he was confident in his work. Alas BYU, like everyone else, put their head in the sand and decided not to follow through on the review. This is starting to look like a pattern amongst those desperate to appear “respectable.”

    Interesting too that BYU is a Mormon University (nothing wrong with that). Our own Steve Sailer has written about the peculiar nature of Mormon culture’s obsession with “fitting in” by trying to appear more normal and Typically American than the rest of everyone else due primarily to the stigma associated with Mormonism (being thought of as a cult religion.) The 9/11 saga is definitely a losing proposition for a Mormon University craving respectability. I can understand that.

    Anyway, the Wikipedia take on his sacking is not too damning in and of itself. Apparently the decision has been called into question by other academics too. I wouldn’t make too much of it unless you’ve got something else to give me.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @NoseytheDuke
    , @Dube
  369. @Anon

    Hey Anon,

    Can you describe the 9/11 Al-Qaeda “plans and actions”?

    If K.S.M. is the real 9/11 “Mastermind” as advertised, long ago a real patriotic POTUS would have brought K.S.M. to stand (non-military) trial perhaps in Las Vegas where the Raiders are bound.

    But then again, The Lobby likes K.S.M. just where he (allegedly) is!

    Selah Revelation 2:9 I know the slander of of those who claim to be Jews and are nicht.

  370. Wade says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    I am not averse to the questions surrounding either Mossad or Larry Silverstein. They both should’ve been investigated thoroughly. They were not as far as I am currently aware.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  371. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    Nothing more and all it ever meant was that any ae911truth take on the molten metal which relied on Jones was a bit sus…. and that still treating him as unblemished authority without mention of his effective sacking was a taint on ae911org….

    • Replies: @Wade
    , @Wade
  372. @ChuckOrloski

    You miss my point completely if you don’t understand that I was dealing with the hypothesis that Israel/Mossad knew something of the plans that someone (assumed not to be the USG or Israel) had for 9/11. Al Qaeda was just the most obvious candidate for that role but who it was didn’t matter.

  373. @Wade

    You’re a good man Wade, but unfortunately the individual Anon is either a tool or a fool and one whom I have little doubt will reappear on future 9/11 threads having absorbed absolutely nothing of that which you have so graciously provided and will continue with the same moronic arguments as now. The Wiz is of the same sub-group. Tools or fools, “The evil that men do lives after them”.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  374. @Wade

    Wade,

    A sincere THANKS for your reply.

    As you know, “Fake News” during the immediate 9/11 aftermath depended upon Fake Investigation. (Sigh) Arlen Specter’s “Magic Bullet” anti-gospel theory’s survival depended upon Fake investigation into how a Lone Gunman shot JFK and Governor Connally for “the price of one.” (Sigh)

    I like the way you think and comment, but as the perpetrators & their ever loyal accomplices thoroughly controlled the 9/11 investigation, I refuse to call it anything but a flimsy elite “frame job.”

    There was no investigation. PERIOD! Such was our (ex) country’s terrible fate and it was brought to you by The Corporate Media & sponsored by the US Department of Justice.

    Can anyone provide valid evidence to posit that US government law enforcement did an investigation as to who did 9/11? (WHAT the hell is going on?) Islamic terrorists were blamed by Israelis as culprits prior to the time it took for the fake hijacker’s passport to be planted upon the freaking street!

    W.T.F.? The Zelikow Commission Report is unrecyclable uptown garbage that even an EPA-approved Municipal Solid Waste Landfill would have little choice but to spit it out.

    THANKS again, Wade. (Sigh) I am saddened to see this comment thread peter out as the dancing Israeli dance never ends.

    Selah Silent Scream Long Live The Resistance To The Lobby Scam Hobby.

  375. Dube says:
    @Wade

    Someone earlier used an apt phrase: “impersonating a fool.”

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  376. @Dube

    I don’t understand why you would write that in a reply to Wade, perhaps you would explain? It was me that wrote the phrase and it most certainly was not directed at Wade, and anyone but a fool would know that from simply reading this thread.

    • Replies: @Dube
  377. Wade says:
    @alexander

    Yes it seems like between, NIST, our intelligence community, the pentagon and a budget so large it can afford to just “lose” 2.4 trillion dollars, a little more could’ve gone into an investigation. Of course everyone knows they’d never be able to replicate what we saw on 9/11.

    • Replies: @alexander
  378. Sparkon says:

    How did the so-called “Dancing Israelis” even get this appellation?

    None of the witnesses who were interviewed by the FBI mentioned “dancing” per se as one of the activities of the Weehawkin Five on 9//11. Instead, they were observed smiling, hugging, posing for photos, and giving high-fives, activities that reasonably might be described as celebrating, but probably not dancing.

    By way of chutzpah, thou shall give the game away.

    But no worries: by way of confusion the media mindbenders, word smiths, and spin doctors will cover your tail, and traitors within the US establishment will work to set you free.

    Mazel Tov!

    According to [blank] one of the males appeared to be taking still photographs and video of the other males with the WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave “high fives.”

    Subsequent investigation by Newark Criminal Division Agents revealed a second eyewitness who reported having observed the a [sic] white van in the same parking lot described by [blank]. This eyewitness, however, observed the van in the parking lot as early as 8:00am on the morning of the explosions at WTC.

    A third interviewee later reported, as documented on an FD-71, having seen, on 09/11/2001 (time not noted), a big, white, model 2000 Chevrolet van, or possibly panel truck or U-Haul truck, bearing the words “Urban Movers” in black lettering along the side. The vehicle was observed in the Liberty State Park’s Marine Terminal in Jersey City, NJ, located across the Hudson River from WTC.
    [...]
    At the time of the vehicle stop, a search of the van and individuals was conducted. Seizure of the individuals’ property yielded the following: a 35mm camera, several personal telephone-style notebooks, back packs, airline tickets with immediate travel dates for destinations world-wide, Israeli passports (in some cases, expired), a German passport, and thousands of dollars of cash. Student identifications later believed to be false were later found. Oddly, equipment typically used in a moving company’s daily duties was not found…Also not found was the video camera that [blank] observed at least one of the males using to film the explosion at WTC.

    http://www.takeourworldback.com/dancingisraelisfbireport.htm#section1

  379. Wade says:
    @Anon

    Stop to think for just a moment about how things in nature always follow the path of least resistance. Let’s put aside for a moment the question of whether or not there was enough kinetic energy from the top floors’ downward trajectory to crush all remaining, otherwise intact, steel and concrete structure below the impact points (i.e. the majority of the towers). These towers are more shaped like rectangular pencils (I know that this is a very rough analogy but it’s what comes to mind early this morning). Imagine an impact of some kind snaps a pencil into two pieces. Imagine we set up a lab experiment in which we secure the bottom part of the pencil into place so that it’s perfectly upright. Then we suspend the other broken piece just a little ways above the bottom piece, also tightly secured into place so that these pieces are perfectly aligned as they were before they were broken. Then we drop the top piece.

    What’s the likelihood that the top piece would simply fall right back into place in perfect balance on top of the bottom piece and stay there like it had been before? Not very likely? Now what’s the likelihood that it would do this if we removed a small section (the 93rd-99th stories) so that the contours of the top piece no longer match the bottom piece at all? Much less, of course.

    See, the question is not just whether or not there was enough force for the top 5 floors or so to literally pile-drive the remaining building into fine dust (there wasn’t enough force. It is absurd to think there was!) while ejecting large steel girders laterally the length of 2 football fields. The point is that regardless of the amount of force, Newton’s 3rd law states ” For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.” So the intact floors are pushing back on the falling floors with just as much force as that which is being exerted on them. In order for the top of the building to make it all the way to the ground, gravity either must pile-drive all 80-some-odd intact floors into fine dust or it could take advantage of some slight anomalies in the first material it encounters on the way down thus initiating a slightly different trajectory. At this moment many new possible paths downward would emerge that would certainly provide less resistance to gravity than simply pile driving through all the intact material like a karate expert breaking layers ice with his fists.

    After all, the strongest supporting structures –the core, those outer steel panels between the windows– are themselves analogous to upright pencils. Should we err on the side of assuming that the top floors, when they crash into the bottom floors, would balance perfectly on the bottom support structures so that the kinetic energy could be completely transferred to the intact material, all the way down the full length of 80 stories without any of it ever tilting off to one side or another?

    It would be a miracle on the order of walking on water for gravity to have selected “straight down” as the path of least resistance with all of that intact material below the top 5 floors.

    • Replies: @Anon
  380. alexander says:
    @Wade

    Hi Wade,

    Of course, it would be almost impossible if not impossible to replicate on a model scale “exactly” the twin towers once they were struck on 9-11.

    Just because of their sheer size.

    I do imagine, however, one could approximate, with a scale model that was well built, key stress loads and structural details quite similar to those of the towers.

    This could give at least “some” index of comparison, some “frame of reference”, to see its performance when struck with the same relative forces at the same relative locations….

    The point is to witness how the mock up behaves structurally , when compared to how the towers behaved during the actual event.

    If one wants to make an argument the buildings COULD NOT have collapsed the way they did without detonations , having a well built model of the towers subjected to the same relative impacts would produce a visual sample that either supports or rejects the conclusion.

    It’s a lot like recreating a crime scene to understand the crime that occurred.

    Its not perfect…but at least its something concrete to visualize which might help move the structural arguments of the collapsation (yea or nay) along.

  381. Wade says:
    @Anon

    Albert Einstein wasn’t unblemished. He conjured up a “Cosmological Constant” from thin air so he could still have his favored static universe theory. We still rely on his work.

  382. Wade says:
    @Anon

    If you’re waiting on Jesus to come back and tell us all who the culprits really were we’ll be waiting a long time. Do you want to talk about how blemished NIST’s report on WT7 was and how they were caught in a monumental lie right as they stood at the podium explaining their work to the public?

    Since they lied, someone must’ve told them to do it or backed them into a corner and forced their hand. Who paid for NIST to create that report? Whoever did was the actual customer in the transaction – not the public. Want to talk about how blemished the customer (Uncle Sam) is?

    • Replies: @Anon
  383. @Sparkon

    “How did the so called “Dancing Israelis” even get this appellation?”

    Excellent question, Sparkon… thanks!

    I had assumed that a significant part of the sighting was that the David Dark Five had danced.

    (Note I am a fan of 60′s music and “The Dave Clark Five” had a couple Top 10 hit songs. Thus is the origin of my pun, The David Dark Five, and I am not “glad all over”)

    Hmm. Wherefore came the “Dancing” Israelis”?

    (Sigh) From experience, I know how popular it is for young Jewish males, who while enjoying Summer camps in N.E. Pennsylvania, merrily disembark from school buses and commence a beautiful brotherly (circular) hand-holding dance.

    My suspicion is that the Dancing Israelis indeed ritualistically DANCED, and whether or not someone actually observed such macabre celebration did not matter.

    Maybe a commenter here knows more than I? If Mr. Giraldi was not so busy doing tomorrow’s U.R. article, I would pester him about the “dancing” appellation origin. Maybe geokat62 does though? Geo’s a “go to” researcher!

    Selah Bergen County Anti-American Band Stand.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  384. @Sparkon

    How did the so-called “Dancing Israelis” even get this appellation?

    You’re trying to find common sense in a deeply occult event and it’s a truly ungrateful
    task. But put the “occult-reading glasses” on and everything will make sense.
    The occult code of “Sept.11” event is “1 4”, so everything related to it must be aligned
    on that code.
    For those who’d coined “Dancing Israelis” label the fact that main point of gematria for
    this label =144/15=(4+140)/(14+1) was more important than anything else. Just as for
    yesterdays massacre in Las Vegas (coded “3 9”) the most important task was for
    everything pertaining to the case to be aligned on “3 9”. Examples (just a few to give an
    idea):
    The date (major point): 1001+2017=3018=9+3009; Hotel: “Mandalay Bay”=99/11=11*9/11
    =3+9-3; Festival: “Route 91 Harvest”=182/14=13=11-9+11=39/3; etc. etc….

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  385. @AB_Anonymous

    AB,

    I respect your comment which described the 9/11 “Dancing Israelis” as a sense defying “deeply occult event.”

    The “occult codes” however are strange / remote to me, a life long Byzantine Catholic who is aware of the important sacred numbers for one example, the # 3 which signifies the Trinity, “One in substance.”

    To reiterate and conclude, the open Acts of the Dancing Israelis prove they had no fear to get noticed and caught.

    (Sigh)

    Elite secular Zionist Jews are fortunate for having extremely bright (patriotic) and strictly secular US writers as opponents of what unspeakable (planned) things they do.

    Selah Thomas Merton.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  386. @ChuckOrloski

    Answering your posts #323, #327, #345 and #394

    1-st) The plutonium bomb, nickname “Fat Man”, dropped over the cathedral of the biggest church in East Asia (at the time) in the most Christian city in Japan (Nagasaki, at the time) was much more powerful than the one, “Little Guy”, detonated over Hiroshima 3 days earlier. To understand why such clearly anti-Christian decision was made by Mr. Truman one has to know both who was his main adviser on this issue, and what kind of duties Mr. Truman was placing way ahead of his presidential duties at the time (by his own words). This info can be obtained from Juri Lina’s “Architects of Deception”, 2004, and Douglas Reed’s “The Controversy of Zion”, 1978 (completed in 1956).

    2-nd) I’m far from an exemplary Christian, but I detest Satanists in either of their numerous disguises (alas, there’re plenty of them hiding behind masks of “Christians” too). I believe that these people (creatures, rather), their worldwide agenda, and the methods they use to achieve it is a pure plague for the rest of humanity.
    And after several years I’ve spent on studying their habits and “signatures” it’ll be (not just, but mathematically !) impossible for anyone to convince me in the opposite.

    3-d) There’s a lot of things (material evidence, testimonies of witnesses, etc.) about this “dance” that would be interesting to see or to hear, but we can’t count on having any. Actually, we should count on NOT having them.
    As we should count on not having any official help in understanding of hundreds of other events, different in many ways, but pretty much equal when it comes to “who’s behind and why”. At the same time we must be extremely thankful to all sources and people who both provide us with precious information and allow us to communicate.

    4-th) 4 years ago the occult codes were as strange to me as to any normal person. But the creatures, I was talking about above, who’d decided to poison my life back then and have been doing it for the last 4 years, had “really asked“ for what I’ve discovered in the process of searching for their Achilles Heel.

    I hope I have answered your questions, but if not – it’s all I can do anyway.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  387. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    “Who paid for that NIST report?”

    I’m a bit confused. You can’t be referring to the ordinary Congressional and Budget processes which are all publicly documented. So you must be referring to payments to enough of the individuals involved to corrupt the NIST investigation and report.

    Surely there is some evidence of this as many people would have received substantial enhancements of their wealth????? But then you completely muddy the waters with your last sentence which says that “Uncle Sam” is the “customer”. Do I have to spell out why your post is confusing?

    • Replies: @Wade
    , @NoseytheDuke
  388. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    If you have a problem with the weight of upper floors being ablĺe to cause successive collapses of lower floors in the WTC buldings once support had been removed at one or two levels theen you must find conventional demolitions incredible because it is exactly the same process but for the crushing of floors being upwards as the descending upper floors fall on to the immovable base.

  389. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Hey Dr Unz. News just in from Las Vegas emphasises what a great service you are providing the nation. Just think of all your Commenting sads and mads of the gunman’s generation glued to their keypads and obsessing about government demolitions if they took their automatic weapons to a high floor overlooking Central Park, or a local equivalent on a festival day, and blasted their frustrations, insignificance and anonymity away with mass murder.

  390. @AB_Anonymous

    AB,

    I don’t know who you are. And I respectfully wish your point # 1 listed the name of the Nagasaki cathedral that “Fat Man” entered.

    No big deal of course because likely > 90 % of U.R. commenters make comments using aliases, screen names.

    However, AB, I figure we both understand the cunning nature of the “Unspaekable” which you and I happen to be discussing.

    One advantage that even pitiful hasbara U.R. commenters have over me is that my real name is in the open & available to them.

    I have no need for your exposing your actual name, and the worst case would be for me to learn you are either a dark art practioners (in disguise) or you are Donald Rumsfeld’s nephew. (Sigh)

    American male life expectancy is 78 years old. Age 65, I’m no “Spring chicken.”

    You tried best to answer my questions but due to the very dark topic we tackle, I must take a knee and leave behind one personal weird story.

    In 1980, a Byzantine priest purchased a book titled “Michelle Remembers.” He rapidly gave the book to me as a gift and departed my home without even making a recommendation to “read it.”

    I did so though, AB, and ever since then, my life can not be described as one of “wine & roses.” Full disclosure, it’s better described as a very challenging life of Ripple and thorns. Linked below (on Amazon) is “Michelle Remembers” which one day might be banned in a real 1st amendment Kingdom come.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001KR2366/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1506979113&sr=2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=michelle+remembers&dpPl=1&dpID=41%2B9b8YmOoL&ref=plSrch#

    Do yourself a favor, AB. and avoid at all cost what Michelle remembers

    Selah Juri Lina Michael the Archangel.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  391. Wade says:
    @Anon

    I wasn’t insinuating anything other than that NIST tried really hard to produce the result that government officials wanted to see. I’m not saying this was accomplished directly with bribes. From day 1 (maybe day 2 at most), government officials (I think Rudolph Giuliani was probably the first) were categorically stating that there were no bombs involved in New York (in spite of the fact that various TV news reports announced that Urban Moving Systems drivers were arrested driving around with bombs in one of their vans). The NIST report on WTC 7 didn’t come out until 2008 more than 5 years after the Iraq war began. NIST stated that they did not investigate or consider explosives as a potential cause of WTC 7′s collapse because, well, everyone already knows that there were no explosives in the building. Or something.

    I wouldn’t expect hired hands of the gov to make such an explosive, pun not intended, foray into demolition theories of WTC 7 collapse especially as late as 2008. Would you?

    Anyway, Anon, it’s been nice debating with you on the issue. I’m going to let this sleeping dog lie. 9/11 stuff is normally not my cup of tea anyway. I’ve never debated the subject with anyone before.

  392. @Anon

    No, but it would be interesting if you would spell out why it is that you insist on pretending to be confused by anything and everything that has been explained to you and then muddying the waters yourself whist accusing others of doing that which you are so plainly doing here. Begone, troll.

    • Replies: @Anon
  393. @ChuckOrloski

    It was the St. Mary’s Urakami Cathedral. You can search article “The Very Un-Christian
    Nagasaki Bomb” by By Gary G. Kohls dated August 9, 2014.

    Thanks for your advice, and good luck to you in fighting the pitiful hasbara trolls.
    I don’t think we have anything else to talk about in the near future.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  394. geokat62 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    “How did the so called “Dancing Israelis” even get this appellation?”

    Although they denied doing so, at least two independent witnesses reported seeing them dance:

    Steven Gordon is the lawyer representing the five detainees, held in Brooklyn. The five, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Helmar, the brothers Paul and Sivan Kretzberg, and a fifth man named Omer, were arrested in New York a few hours after the disaster. They worked for the Urban Moving Company; whose offices are located in Hoboken, New Jersey. The company’s offices closed down following the arrests, and the owner, an Israeli named Dominick [Suter], could not be located. Many versions of the reasons leading to the arrests and the events following them have been circulating in the last weeks. Gordon’s is the most complete and reliable one.

    “On the day of the disaster, three of the five boys went up on the roof of the building where the company office is located,” said Gordon. “I’m not sure if they saw the twin towers collapse, but, in any event, they photographed the ruins right afterwards. Tower, planeOne of the neighbors who saw them called the police and claimed they were posing, dancing and laughing, against the background of the burning towers. The five denied dancing. I presume the neighbor was not near them and does not understand Hebrew. Furthermore, the neighbor complained that the cheerful gang on the roof spoke Arabic. As far as I understand it, that neighbor has had previous problems with the company, and she could have been waiting for an opportunity to avenge the owners.

    “Anyhow, the three left the roof, took an Urban truck, and drove to a parking lot, located about a five-minute drive from the offices. They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives. She and another neighbor called the police and reported on Middle-Eastern looking people dancing on the truck. They copied and reported the license plates.

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/WTC/spies10.html

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  395. @AB_Anonymous

    Thanks, AB, and I plan to read the article by Gary Kohls, asap.

    I know how challenging it was for the original Jesuit missions to evangelize Japan.

    Likely you are aware of Shusako Endo’s great novel and Martin Scorcese’s film, “Silence.”

    I for one could only imagine the (elite) occult celebration after an atomic bomb mercilessly radiated the Liturgy of John Chrysostom at the Nagasaki cathedral

    Later I must look at the size of Japan’s Christian communities. Also I want to find out about how Goldman Sachs Group investments are faring in Japan. Hmm. There’s relative “Silence” on the latter matter as the American-Israeli Empire’s “pivot” to the Far East is on the dark tarmac & ready to roll.

    Thanks again, AB. Remarkably, good people offer top notch comments here at U.R. during a stressed time characterized by private EYES who watch what is said. Ok, okay… enough said for time being.

  396. @geokat62

    Thanks geokat62.

    For me, open celebratory dancing is not reflective of Mossad’s military discipline.

    You wisely shared information on the Lobby’ s top three (3) Zionist billionaires.

    Given even the inexhaustible Lobby funds poured into keeping US Congress in the Zio flock, I think that one like Sheldon Adelson would demand the “head” of a Mossad chieftain who let the dance happen, up unto a (controlled) US arrest of the Israeli dancers.

    From here, I can hear a waffling US Senator’s silent scream to an AIPAC C.E.O, “By Jesus, couldn’t our brother Jews have celebrated the demolitions at Rao’s, on wide screen TV? Don’t Tel Aviv know I have to face a freaking re-election primary next April! W.T.F.?”

    Thanks, geo.

  397. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Are you only pretending to be so dim or so naive in the ways of the world that you cannot read “I’m a bit confused” as a conventionally polite way of being (in some cases including Wade’s) somewhat condescendingly critical of a person’s logic.

    Wade is evidently not practised in debate with those whose standards of logic are or are equivalent to those of appeal counsel – he virtually says as much – but you must have dropped out when the lefty primary teachers’ union team monstered you. Trivial though it is I commend attention to Wade’s evident muddle and try and understand what I wala nitpicking about.

  398. Wade says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    A Dr Steven Jones is relied on by ae911truth to prove that it would have looked silver if aluminium and so must have been molten steel. I’ll come back to the molten steel hypothesis in a moment but now I would like you to join me in examining this critical step in the ae911truth argument. So far my online searching has provided this

    http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/aluminum/Aluminum_Glows.html

    By quoting the Dr Judy Wood article I take it your hypothesis is that the molten metal seen poring out of the side of the building could’ve been aluminum and therefore not the molten steel from steel beams that make up the support structure of the building. Look, ae911truth’s argument was that NIST had claimed that the metal poring out of the building was molten aluminum because aluminum can melt at a much lower temperature than that required to melt iron or steel. Therefore, since the molten metal could’ve been aluminum, there’s no reason to suppose the fires were hot enough to melt steel. Is that your argument?

    If so, you’ve really scored an “own goal” here. Aluminum when it first melts is silver. Yes, if you continue to heat it well beyond it’s melting point it will eventually turn yellow-hot. However, it’s seen poring out the side of the building away from the heat source. What held the aluminum in place long enough to be heated well past its melting point? Even worse, what heat source was available to heat the aluminum far past the 2200°F threshold for turning it from a silvery, mercury like appearance to the yellow/white appearance we in fact see? Now you’re back to where you started: jet fuel and office fires weren’t hot enough to produce the molten metal we see poring out of the side:

    Dr. Jones also notes that molten aluminum appears silvery as it melts at 660°C/1220°F, and that it remains silvery when poured in daylight conditions, regardless of the temperature. It is theoretically possible to continue heating liquid aluminum way past its melting point and into the yellow-white temperature range, but the office fire was not a plausible source for such high temperatures, and there was no crucible to contain liquid aluminum for continued heating. Put another way, even if the building fire could have somehow provided the needed temperature for the yellow-white glow, the unrestrained aluminum would have melted and trickled away before it could achieve such a temperature. This problem also rules out other proposed alternative metals — lead, for example — which have similarly low melting points.

    Finally, Dr. Jones adds that even if liquid aluminum could have been restrained long enough to make it glow white, it would still have appeared silvery within the first two meters of falling through the air in daylight conditions, due to its high reflectivity and low emissivity. Source: (http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/899-what-was-the-molten-metal-seen-pouring-out-of-the-south-tower-minutes-before-its-collapse-steel-and-iron-or-aluminum-andor-lead.html)

  399. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @This Is Our Home

    In 1967, Israel murdered 34 American sailors and were allowed to get away with it.
    When they realised they had this impunity, they went on to do it again and again.
    The result was 9/11, when they murdered 3,000.

    Moslems were shown “celebrating” on 9/11.
    They were celebrating the release of some Palestinian political prisoners from Israeli jails.

    Israel is a rogue terrorist state, a racist apartheid regime with weapons of mass destruction.
    “We control America, we control Congress, we control the media, we control everything……” – Israeli government spokesman.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  400. Dube says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Nosey, while realizing that your nifty phrase, “impersonating a fool,” was not directed originally to Wade, I’ll quote your own later dismissal of him in support of its application to his extended diversions: “…[I]t would be interesting if you would spell out why it is that you insist on pretending to be confused by anything and everything that has been explained to you and then muddying the waters yourself whist accusing others of doing that which you are so plainly doing here. Begone, troll.”

  401. Corvinus says:
    @anonymous

    “Israel is a rogue terrorist state, a racist apartheid regime with weapons of mass destruction. “We control America, we control Congress, we control the media, we control everything……” – Israeli government spokesman.”

    Assuming that Jews control Americans, what are you doing about it? Why lament on a blog about how you are merely a puppet? Are you that impotent to stop, or even slow down, the Jewish steamroller? If you are slave, why continue to be a slave?

  402. rojee says:

    Back fire….. The only reason I am reading this OP is that Jewish elements fired the author.

    Oh how sweet it is!
    More Air Time for Philip!

  403. […] Некоторые из моих старых статей, в том числе «Танцующие израильтяне» и «Почему я все еще не люблю Израиль также нашли […]

  404. T. Weed says:

    All the engineers in the world agree that “airplane fuel” did not bring the towers down. They were brought down by controlled demolition. The Saudi “hijackers” (six of whom were found alive and well in Arabia the day after 9-11) could not have wired the buildings for demolition. Someone else did. The “dancing Israelis” were high-fiving and congratulating each other for a job well done as they watched the towers come down in free fall.

  405. Quim says:
    @Carroll Price

    Little off topic but I believe the thermite that AE911 and Niels Harritt found turned out to have a chemical makeup identical to that of the kind of primer paint used in the WTC towers- after comparing the two’s spectrographs. I suppose the question would be whether or not you can get a symmetrical collapse using traditional explosives. The majority of engineers seem to think it’s possible to get one from a plane crash (basically a projectile missile) so by that logic we can infer it is at least possible. And that argument has the plus side of using debunker logic against them.

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