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True believer Mike Pence could be a whole lot worse
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U.S. Vice President Mike Pence shakes hands with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during a meeting at the Prime Minister's office in Jerusalem

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When President Donald Trump traveled to Davos last week, the second foreign head of government he met with was Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu. When the expected groveling before Bibi was concluded the rest of the world learned that Trump is right on board the Netanyahu bandwagon when it comes to making sure that the Palestinians somehow disappear. Trump flat-out lied in asserting that “I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace,” a line that comes straight out of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs playbook, but drew a frown from Bibi when he suggested there might actually have to be some concessions from both sides to reach an agreement. Netanyahu does not do concessions.

President Trump, who has no coherent Middle Eastern policy apart from abject deference to Israel, was particularly miffed because the Palestinians had “disrespected” Mike Pence on his visit to the region earlier in the week. They had refused to meet with the U.S. Vice President over the issue of Israel’s claimed sovereignty in all of Jerusalem, which the Administration endorsed and claims to have “taken off the [negotiating] table.”

In response to the Palestinian affront, Trump threatened to cut any aid going to Ramallah unless its leaders get their pathetic asses back to participate in U.S. brokered negotiations where everyone can sit around and talk while the Israelis systematically devour what is left of the West Bank. “That money is on the table and that money’s not going to them unless they sit down and negotiate peace,” he said. Someone should have told The Donald that U.S. assistance goes largely to pay and train a Palestinian police force that works hand-in-hand with the Israeli occupiers to prevent attacks on Israelis. But hey, being president means you never have to say you’re sorry when you screw things up.

Trump has already cut in half the money going to United Nations relief efforts helping Palestinian refugees, many of whom still live in camps seventy years after the Jews stole their homes. Donald Trump is right of course. Why throw money at ragheads when you can instead suck up to the infinitely more powerful and wealthy world Jewry that the sly and slimy Netanyahu claims to represent?

Meanwhile back at home multiple moves are underway to get rid of Trump, ranging from declaring him mentally incompetent to impeachment for perjury or for lack of good manners. I would like to see him go due to his sheer fecklessness, particularly if he can take Mattis, McMaster, Pompeo, Tillerson and Haley with him. But there is a serious fly in the ointment, namely what would come next? The answer is President Mike Pence.

Mike Pence caught some heat during the campaign because of some of his idiosyncrasies like “never eat[ing] alone with a woman other than his wife.” Whether that was true because of the apparently overwhelming sexual urges that seem to afflict nearly all congressmen and Hollywood producers, or because of something in the Bible, or even to avoid possible allegations of misbehavior, was not at all clear.

And speaking of the Bible, Pence is both a Christian fundamentalist and a dispensationalist, which means that he thinks every word in the Good Book is literally true and that Christianity is going through phases or dispensations that will lead to the rapture of true believers into heaven followed by the wrath of God descending on those who refuse to see the light.

The odd thing about people like Pence is that they stick like glue to their Scofield Reference Bibles but apparently rarely venture into the New Testament part with its talk of compassion and forgiveness. They much prefer the fire and brimstone in the Jewish part with Joshua smiting and Philistines (Palestines?) falling left and right. Pence and his co-believers, who are sometimes labeled Christian Zionists, consider Jews to be the Chosen People of God and Israel’s creation and survival are all part of the master plan that will lead to the end of the world as we know it. The re-creation of a Jewish state and the gathering in of as many of the world’s Jews as possible is seen as a critical step to achieve the Second Coming of Christ, which Pence and his associates fervently hope will occur soon. At that point, it is assumed that the Jews will realize that Christ is truly their Messiah and will mass-convert. If they do not they will be consumed in fire like all the other unbelievers.

Well, Pence is undeniably a true believer in the worst way, but he can choose to believe whatever he likes. The problem with him is that, given his senior role in the government, his firmly held religious beliefs are no longer a personal issue. They inevitably have political, economic and national security consequences for all Americans, not just for those who see things as he does. Only 20% of Americans actually go to church and of those only a portion are aligned with Pence on what Christianity means, suggesting that his is a minority viewpoint within a minority viewpoint.

Pence’s views on the Middle East as influenced by his particular religiosity were on full display during his recent trip to Israel, a country that he has visited eight times. The Vice President’s speech before the Knesset first required the removal of all Arab members of that body, who had loudly expressed their disapproval of what they knew was coming.

Pence was applauded frequently by those who remained, particularly when he praised Israel effusively or damned Iran. Ironically perhaps, no one in the audience seemed to be too disturbed by the ultimate meaning of his evangelical fervor in that the End of Days and battle of Armageddon that he looks forward to will also be the end for Jews who do not convert, a point that was commented on drily by the Haaretz newspaper. But the gathering was really all about Pence expressing his personal commitment to unlimited and uncritical support by Washington for Israel, so theological niceties were politely ignored.

The speech itself explains what a Pence presidency would look like in regards to the Middle East. He began with the usual sucking-up to one’s hosts that politicians are so good at, “…I am here to convey a simple message from the heart of the American people: America stands with Israel. We stand with Israel because your cause is our cause, your values are our values, and your fight is our fight. We stand with Israel because we believe in right over wrong, in good over evil, and in liberty over tyranny. We stand with Israel because that’s what Americans have always done…”

The scary thing is that Pence likely believes his own rhetoric. It would be hard to compress so much nonsense into a few sentences without looking completely ridiculous, but Pence in his zealotry seeks to convey a measure of rectitude relating to a whole basket of untruths without even breathing hard. First of all, the American people have never endorsed the relationship with Israel in any way and do not “stand with Israel” out of any conviction. Recent opinion polls suggest that most Americans are quite ambivalent about Israel and what it represents in spite of having been on the receiving end of more than fifty years of incessant propaganda extolling falsely “the only democracy in the Middle East.”

In truth, the Israeli special relationship is something that has been created and fostered by a corrupted-by-cash political class and a Jewish dominated media supported by a powerful and unscrupulous domestic Lobby backed up by an oligarchy of Jewish-Zionist billionaires. This line-up has created a national myth about Israel that could have been scripted by Leon Uris of Exodus fame.

As for values and causes, Americans would be appalled if they were to witness the misery inflicted on the Palestinians by the Israelis. Right over wrong? Good over evil? Where is the justice for the Palestinians in that Israel’s government is itself evil, an apartheid state that denies benefits to its own citizens if they adhere to the wrong religion. Tyranny? That’s what occurs in the West Bank and in the strangling of Gaza every single day, to include the beating and shooting of children and legless protesters.

And Pence even had a crumb to throw to the audience back at home regarding the impending move of the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, saying “Our president made his decision, in his words, ‘In the best interests of the American people.’” Sure Mike, shifting the U.S. Embassy was an astute move made by a completely ignorant chief executive at the urging of an Israeli citizen billionaire contributor named Sheldon Adelson, who owns lots of casinos, backed up by the president’s son-in-law and a bunch of Orthodox Jewish advisers. Lots of real American interest there. It was a move that brings absolutely no benefit to the United States, quite the contrary, and which has, pari passu, made American travelers and businessmen even more hated overseas, turning them into targets for terrorism.

And then there is Iran… “the leading state sponsor of terror…a brutal dictatorship…seeking to dominate the Arab world…devoted more than $4 billion to malign activities in Syria, Lebanon and elsewhere…supported terrorist groups that even now sit on Israel’s doorstep…and, worst of all, the Iranian regime has pursued a clandestine nuclear program.” It is all another bowl of porridge. Iran has voluntarily given up its nuclear weapons program and was fighting ISIS in Syria. It is seen as a threat by neighbors like the Israelis and Saudis who have their own hegemonic ambitions. And if the poor Israelis have terrorist groups on their doorstep it is because they invited them there through their completely cynical support of al-Qaeda and ISIS in neighboring Syria.

Regarding Iran, Pence concluded to rapturous applause that “President Trump has said that the United States will withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal immediately.” So, terminating a diplomatic success story and virtually guaranteeing that Iran will go nuclear, no doubt followed by Egypt and the Saudis, is seen by Pence and the Knesset as a good outcome because it is what Israel wants. Of course, the real intention on Netanyahu’s part is to go to war with the Iranians with the United States doing the fighting, so no wonder he’s smiling. Nice one Mike.

Pence concluded with “The miracle of Israel is an inspiration to the world. And the United States of America is proud to stand with Israel and her people, as allies and cherished friends.” Excuse me, but an openly racist Israel is hardly inspiring with its persistent playing of the victim card while it cynically exploits Washington to provide it with money, arms and political cover. And it is also no actual ally of the U.S., has never sent its soldiers to fight alongside Americans, and is hardly even a friend as evidenced by its record of interfering in U.S. domestic politics to receive billions of dollars annually from the American taxpayer. And nor would its recurrent theft of U.S.-developed high tech and defense secrets stand much scrutiny. But Mike was most likely not briefed on all that stuff, besides which, he probably received instructions on cherishing Israel directly from God.

Philip M. Giraldi, Ph.D., is Executive Director of the Council for the National Interest, a 501(c)3 tax deductible educational foundation that seeks a more interests-based U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. Website is www.councilforthenationalinterest.org, address is P.O. Box 2157, Purcellville VA 20134 and its email is [email protected]

 
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  1. “…I am here to convey a simple message from the heart of the American people: America stands with Israel. We stand with Israel because your cause is our cause, your values are our values, and your fight is our fight. We stand with Israel because we believe in right over wrong, in good over evil, and in liberty over tyranny. ”
    I didn’t need to stick two fingers down my throat to spew.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @American Sulla
  2. chris says:

    Sadly, very funny!

    But maybe the reason Donald was so anxious to complete the quid with the embassy was precisely to preclude a Pence presidency from dangling itself as a potential carrot.

    You have to wonder what Yahoo and his cohorts actually say behind the backs of dunces like Pence and Trump; that even when they loose a hand, like might have been thought at the last election, they can turn a loosing hand into gold!

    Playing host to Laurel and Hardy must provide for at least some good laughs for them and the rest of the world, but it’s only useful in making the charade that much more transparent.

    • Replies: @chris
  3. Wally says:

    And the alternative was Hillary.
    With Jew butt kissing and an expanded war on Euro white gentiles.

  4. Da Wei says:

    Identifying VP Pence, or anyone else for that matter, as a true believer calls to mind the book of that name by the San Francisco longshoreman philosopher Eric Hoffer. Mr. Hoffer’s True Believer is a kind of idealist given to extreme ideology with a likelihood of switching from one extreme position to its opposite over the course of a career. Rabid and rude Black Panther turned button down collar Republican Eldridge Cleaver is a good example. With this in mind, we can only hope that Mr. Geraldi is right in calling VP Pence a true believer. If that is the case and Eric Hoffer is right, then rapture could turn to rupture and see our VP become vehemently pro American at Israel’s loss. That is, if both are right.

    If VP Pence is not a true believer in Hoffer’s sense, then might he be an opportunistic politician who may even truly believe his own bullshit? Does he eschew dining alone with any woman other than his wife simply to appear squeaky clean and avoid accusations? Does he suck up to Jews, because as a former radio talk show host he knows which side his matzo is buttered on? Who knows? He seems so good at it that maybe he, himself, doesn’t know.

    Really, who cares, unless Mr. Geraldi is right and VP Pence is a true believer in Eric Hoffer’s sense of the term? That given, we could — just maybe — have our own peculiar redemption.

  5. Seraphim says:

    @The odd thing about people like Pence is that they stick like glue to their Scofield Reference Bibles but apparently rarely venture into the New Testament part with its talk of compassion and forgiveness.

    Because he might read what St. Paul said what would happen when his dream of Armaggedon would be fulfilled:
    “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)
    He would understand that what he is wishing for is the Last Judgement, when there shall not be any ‘rapture’ for his ilk, but the casting in the Lake of Fire.

  6. “The miracle of Israel is an inspiration to the world. And the United States of America is proud to stand with Israel and her people, as allies and cherished friends.”

    Now, that is an utterance from a profoundly disturbed mind.

  7. Weaver1 says:

    I’m no fan of Pence. Trump is a wildcard. It looks like peace and maybe unity in Korea. Pakistan is off the dole. Whether he considers such results successes or failures, I applaud.

    Trump isn’t following the proper course for the empire. We have a huge trade deficit now. If he attempts to right that, it’ll disrupt the empire further.

    Nuclear Iran, SA, and Egypt is unsettling. Independence from ME oil is sounding all the better, be it coal, Canadian oil sands, or solar panels and batteries.

    -

    Just to speak on another topic which some readers will value:

    Some hope Pence would be better on immigration, but his voters really pressured him on that. He was originally a sellout. He did oppose the Wall Street bailout, which suggests some morals.

    • Replies: @JoaoAlfaiate
  8. Randal says:

    I would like to see him go due to his sheer fecklessness, particularly if he can take Mattis, McMaster, Pompeo, Tillerson and Haley with him. But there is a serious fly in the ointment, namely what would come next? The answer is President Mike Pence.

    Trump is appalling on foreign policy in general and the ME in particular. But he’s still better than all the plausible alternatives overall, and he still occasionally contributes a bit of political incorrectness now and then to send all the people who most urgently need to be annoyed into apoplexy.

    Pence is an irrational idiot on Israel, yes, but what’s really new about that as far as the US regime is concerned?

    There should be no dispute that the overwhelming priority for the world and indeed for Americans themselves, if they were honest about it, is for US global influence to decline along with the US regime’s capacity for doing harm around the world, ideally to the point where it is forced to withdraw from its global enforcement roles. Trump’s foreign policy buffoonery contributes significantly to that goal, and his blundering is in truth no more likely to result in a war than the menacing warmongering of a Clinton or a McCain, and arguably less so.

    In the round, it probably makes little difference though, overall. US foreign policy imbecility is a bipartisan eternal truth of the modern world, baked in by the immovable power of corrupt interest groups and identity lobbies. Trump might have some relevance to internal US issues but other than minor details of policy he’s not really going to change the overall poisonous thrust of US foreign policy, as we’ve seen.

    • Replies: @anon
  9. Realist says:

    “Let’s Keep Donald Trump
    True believer Mike Pence could be a whole lot worse”

    Pick your poison??? A piss poor position to be in.

  10. As usual, Giraldi tells it like it is.

    Someone should have told The Donald that U.S. assistance goes largely to pay and train a Palestinian police force that works hand-in-hand with the Israeli occupiers to prevent attacks on Israelis. But hey, being president means you never have to say you’re sorry when you screw things up.

    Historically, that’s been true of almost all the aid we give to the Arabs: it’s mostly just more indirect aid for Israel. Who is the second biggest recipient of American aid in the ME after Israel? Answer: Egypt. Ever since the Camp David Accord in 1978, we have effectively been paying the Egytptians not to fight Israel, and to prevent Palestinian groups from using the Sinai Peninsula to resupply Gaza. Likewise, we have also been paying Mahmoud Abbas not to fight Israel. But if Trump now cuts off their funds, that leaves yet another opening for Iran to move in. If that happens, expect relations between Fatah and Hamas to improve dramatically. Go Trump!

    And speaking of the Bible, Pence is both a Christian fundamentalist and a dispensationalist, which means that he thinks every word in the Good Book is literally true and that Christianity is going through phases or dispensations that will lead to the rapture of true believers into heaven followed by the wrath of God descending on those who refuse to see the light.

    One of the many things about the Rapture Zionists that leaves me scratching my head is how they can pass themselves off as ‘Biblical literalists’ when the Bible never even mentions anything about dispensations, raptures, etc. All those notions were actually invented by Irish Protestant theologian John Nelson Darby in the 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby

    They much prefer the fire and brimstone in the Jewish part with Joshua smiting and Philistines (Palestines?) falling left and right.

    Your instincts are good, Phil. Palӕstina (the Latin form of Philistia) was the Roman name for the Holy Land.

    … no one in the audience seemed to be too disturbed by the ultimate meaning of his evangelical fervor in that the End of Days and battle of Armageddon that he looks forward to will also be the end for Jews who do not convert …

    Unless they actually believed in all this Rapture nonsense themselves, why should they be worried? The Rapture-Zionists are just more useful idiots for the Jews.

    • Agree: L.K
  11. Trump’s “insurance policy” in the form of potential successors is nowhere near as deep as that which kept Obama safe. Remove Trump from the picture and you get Pence, then Ryan, then Hatch, then Tillerson and so on, all of whom are plausible Presidential material for the majority of Americans. Including Pence, the lineup is a neocon’s wet dream; it is no wonder that Trump has been flipped on so many issues.

    With the last administration, you had Biden, then Pelosi, then Leahy or Byrd or Inouye, then Clinton or Kerry and so on. the only one on that list that might not be offensive to a majority of America was perhaps Sen. Inouye, though all at one time or another had earned neocon cred.

  12. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Sorry Mikey, I have no love for Apartheid Israel. Whatever delusions you have towards that back-stabbing friend much come from either too many drugs in college or a maniacal devotion to the Bible’s OT, with all the smiting, butchering, raping, thieving, incest and more violence, done by your TaskMasters, the Israeli’s ancestors.

    Being a CHRISTian means you’re a follower of Jesus Christ and his messages of hope, love and salvation in the New Testament.

    Christ taught us to feed the hungry, minister to the sick and shelter the homeless, beautiful teachings but which today’s raw meat eaters like Pence and the rest of the CZ’s and Evangelicals must find distasteful, since they want to use the OT’s hellfire and damnation against whatever nation Israel wants destroyed.
    Hell, even I know about the message of love in the NT and I’m a recovering Catholic which still believes that JC’s message of love towards your fellow man is a great recipe for peace.

    If there is a God (or should I say G-d?) PLEASE RUPTURE these fools somewhere, anywhere but planet Earth so the remaining sane people can go about repairing this broken world without frauds like Pence thumping the Bible and pretending to be a lover of Christ, while they go orgasmic over the latest nation busted up for the glory of Apartheid Israel.

  13. Biff says:

    My guess is the #NeverTrump’ers are too flat out stupid to have any foresight on the topic.
    They want Trump out even if it kills them.

    • Agree: Zumbuddi
    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @Harold Smith
  14. Z-man says:

    Yes great article.
    Christian Zionists, that should be the concise explanation for oxymoron in Websters dictionary.
    Trump has been a ‘predicted’ dissappointment from his campaign positions. I’m hoping he can have enough core beliefs and backbone to push back against the NEOCONS vis a vis Russia and war with Iran. The feckless Europeans have to push back also and that’s a tall order.
    BTW I just saw Pompeo on the BBC and for some reason he reminds me of Earnest Borgnine in ‘Marty’. For someone who is supposed to be so smart he certainly can’t keep the lard off.
    But going back to Pence, yeah scary guy but he did eviscerate Kaine in the VP debate which was a good thing. (Grin)

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  15. Z-man says:
    @Biff

    Agree. There is a derangement among the elites (Most of the MSM/Beltway Democrats/Most Republicans)-to this day- that they can’t believe Trump is POTUS. So they must destroy what is good to get rid of this derangement from their minds. This is where I become a Trumpster again but Trump’s Zio centric policies does stink!

  16. Jake says:

    The title of this article tells not merely truth, but truth that springs from a fact that is probably the most important in terms of how and why the world is so screwed up and certain to get worse before it could get better and may be headed for total civilizational implosion.

    The British Empire made WASP culture the world’s mandarin. The US took up that mantle starting with WW1 and completed with WW2.

    WASP culture was born of a Judaizing heresy: Anglo-Saxon Puritanism. A Judaizing heresy will always produce 2 things. One is that the True Believers develop a sense of being beyond good and evil, of being above the moral complaints of others, of being antinomian for themselves while smashing other peoples to death with laws often executed with no mercy whatsoever. And they feel that they should rule the world, for only they can make thew world safe for themselves.

    The other is that the theology necessarily produces politics that are pro-Jewish, which produce pro-Jewish culture.

    Put the two together, and after a couple of centuries of great military prowess that breeds hubris, you can destroy all of civilization while telling yourself that you are doing the very opposite.

    Mike Pence could be much worse than Trump because Pence is a True Believer in standard WASP Evangelicalism. Judaizing of the worst sort, therefore, lies at the very center of his heart’s religious and moral beliefs.

    Archetypal WASP Oliver Cromwell made alliance with Jews, granting them special rights and privileges, specifically to secure money to wage war against the vast majority of British Isles Christians, after which he could turn the WASP culture’s attention to spreading its gospel globally.

    The British Empire indeed spread the contagion across the planet.

    You cannot separate the ‘Jewish problem’ from the ‘WASP problem,’ nor can you separate the rest of the ‘Semitic problem’ (Arabic/Islamic) from the ‘WASP problem.’

  17. @Wally

    And the alternative was Hillary.

    Well, not really, but I know what you mean.

  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Who believes Trump or Pence are in charge of anything? Bankers and generals are running the country.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  19. Jake says:
    @Wally

    Exactly.

    This is the end game of WASP culture. This is the natural end of the culture. This is where it was headed from its birth.

  20. Trump, Pence, Clinton, Obama…what’s the difference? They’re all bad; they’re all “demon-possessed”.

    If it’s even possible to distinguish various shades of evil at this point, and Pence may be “worse” than Trump, then I say get rid of Trump and put Pence in there.

    Let’s get this over with. The empire is going down anyway so why not hurry it along by giving the jewish-supremacist madmen everything they want?

  21. Off the map. First DC, then Tel Aviv.

    • LOL: Z-man
  22. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Trump” has decided to keep troops in Syria permanently. Should we impeach or pretend Israel controls the US Military? In other words: buy into the incoherent gibberish of spook propagandist Giraldi?

  23. Well, Pence is undeniably a true believer in the worst way, but he can choose to believe whatever he likes. The problem with him is that, given his senior role in the government, his firmly held religious beliefs are no longer a personal issue. They inevitably have political, economic and national security consequences for all Americans, not just for those who see things as he does. Only 20% of Americans actually go to church and of those only a portion are aligned with Pence on what Christianity means, suggesting that his is a minority viewpoint within a minority viewpoint.

    Bingo! Excellent piece and this quote is a key to the article.

  24. Hi Phil,

    For me, President Trump and V.P. Pence are coequal Enforcers for the Jew agenda, and linked below is Trump’s appearance on MSNBC and his making a case for the “Title” as Israel’s best.

    https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/trump-im-the-best-thing-for-israel-578753091526

    Selah “How to become POT(Z)US in One Lobby Lesson and Graduation.”

  25. This is all garbage. Article and comments What is happening is that Zionist Globalist with treacherous Democratic party are misappropriating from white people their material and spiritual heritage in America. And all real Americans are shitting their pants because they are afraid to be called antisemitic or racists.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  26. biz says:

    The Vice President’s speech before the Knesset first required the removal of all Arab members of that body

    Nope. There are 18 Arab members in the Knesset. Only 13 belong to the United Arab List party which staged the protest during Pence’s introduction (not before), and they were the only ones removed. They were removed only because they violated Parliamentary rules by holding up a banner while in session. One Jewish member was removed for this reason as well.

    Why do anti-Israel partisans feel the need to lie, constantly?

  27. Jake says:

    Giraldi writes: “The odd thing about people like Pence is that they stick like glue to their Scofield Reference Bibles ….”

    For the many who do not know, the Scofield Study Bible was first published in 1909 by the Oxford University Press.

    Scofield is a case study in the long ranging effects of the Judaizing heresy Anglo-Saxon Puritanism. He was born in MI to a family that on both sides was pure Anglo-Saxon and had moved westward from MA through up state NY to the upper midwest.

    You cannot separate the ‘Jewish problem’ from the ‘WASP problem.’

    • Replies: @DaveE
  28. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Oh well, one supposes we could have had devil worshippers Clinton-Kaine in the White House. Instead of Pence’s tedious religious pablum we could have been seeing full-blown satanic rituals with Hillary wearing a goat’s head. But really, who out there that was a candidate had intentions in these matters that were significantly different?

    • Replies: @tjm
  29. Bill says:

    Ironically perhaps, no one in the audience seemed to be too disturbed by the ultimate meaning of his evangelical fervor in that the End of Days and battle of Armageddon that he looks forward to will also be the end for Jews

    This is not hard to understand. Jews think of these guys as useful retards, thus not to be taken seriously. One keeps waiting for the Dispensationalists to notice this fact.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  30. @Anonymous

    Of course Trump’s “in charge”; that he knowingly and willfully deceived “the people” and sold out to the first beast of Rev 13 is another matter.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  31. Regarding Pence’s circus visit, Avnery describes a scene mimicking Cleopatra’s monkeys.

    When the vice president started to utter his chain of flatteries, the members jumped up and gave him a wild standing ovation. This was repeated again and again, up and down, up and down, and looked both ridiculous and disgusting.

    Contrary to the US congress, the Knesset does not allow applause. In all my 10 years as a member, during which I attended every single session, I don’t remember a single hand-clap, not to mention multiple standing ovations.

    -Uri Avnery, The Jumping Parliament

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1517052482/

    And people, apparently even the “high IQ” dolts, put their faith in such infantile morons.

    Amazing and disgusting. Pathos on steroids!

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  32. @Wally

    Correct. And in the United States there is only one party, the Zionist Party, with Republican and Democratic wings.

  33. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The US (with employees like Phil Giraldi) has slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims over the last 15 years in a giant Crusade that won’t end any time soon. Frightened Americans tremble at the word “terrorist,” but see nothing wrong with dropping bombs and drones on villages full of poor peasants who never have harmed anyone.

    Tell me why the USA has to send a fleet to North Korea to protect super rich South Korea and Japan? Tell me why the US still has troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, and who knows how many other places.

    Trump belongs to the Ruling Class. If he didn’t, the rulers never would have selected him as president.

    • Replies: @Alden
  34. @Biff

    What exactly is “#NeverTrumper”?

    • Replies: @Weaver1
  35. @Weaver1

    “Independence from ME oil” is impossible even if the USA imports not a single drop from that region. The oil market is global and the marginal barrel sets the price.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
    , @renfro
  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Harold Smith

    Don’t vote. Voting keeps the plutocrats in power. It didn’t matter who won this election because both men work for masters above them, as do all politicians. Voting only confirms your slavery. It does not empower you. If you don’t have the cell phone number of your congressman, you belong to the slave class and should not vote. Each congressman represents about 1 million people. Who do they care about, the people with money or the the children who post on the internet to propaganda written by the CIA? The Voters keep the majority enslaved. Nothing quite says zombie lover of their own slavery like voting. Voting means saying to the rich, “here, rule me merciful spawn of satan and tell me how to live”

    • Replies: @Weaver1
    , @Harold Smith
  37. Emerson says:

    In Washington, the American people have for their rulers a Jewish White House, a Jewish Congress and a Jewish Supreme Court. Enough said.

  38. Wally says:
    @animalogic

    Yet one more reason that the fake & impossible ’6M Jews’ was contrived:

    Justifying the parasite state of Israel.

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

  39. Sherman says:

    I applaud VP Pence’s support for a safe and strong Israel.

  40. Joe Hide says:

    While there is much truth in the article, it could stand to reflect on the much bigger game…. geopolitically, temporally, and spiritually. Very powerful people, groups, and influences can still push back against efforts of those supporting Trump, Putin, Xi, and their allies. We individuals cannot be presented with the whole strategy, just part of the tactics. In war (and this is very much so an informational, physical, and spiritual war), the soldiers and civilians are seldom given the complete battle plans. Rather, they know just enough to defeat the enemy and achieve a lasting, beneficial, and productive peace.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
    , @JohnnyRVF
  41. Weaver1 says:
    @JoaoAlfaiate

    Ty, alternative energy could help wean the US off ME oil. Uranium is quite cheap currently, not that it’s my ideal type of power plant. Electric cars (and battery tech) are advancing.

    Global warming is a farce, but I can get behind independence from the Saudis.

    I know that different grades are needed for blending; but Canada and Venezuela produce heavy, and the US produces light.

  42. Weaver1 says:
    @Anonymous

    Voting third party at least sends a message.

  43. @biz

    Why do anti-Israel partisans feel the need to lie, constantly?

    Probably the same reason that the Zionists do.

    • Replies: @biz
  44. As ZUS citizens await President Donald Trump’s delivery of the “State of the Union” speech, below I have linked Sylvia Stolz’s critically important & BEST speech on “Freedom of Speech” that present westerners shall ever hear.

    Full disclosure: I offer the video link especially for SolontoCroesus who is an advocate and practitioner of classical logic and one who desires to rescue “True mode of thinking / True Mode of Knowing” from out of the American-Israeli Empire’s “Dark Age” dungeon.

    No one changes narcotic “boredom” agenda-pushing regimes better than S2C!

    Please come home.

  45. @Anonymous

    I voted for Orange Clown. I didn’t fully trust Orange Clown, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I made the assumption that although he may be “corrupt”, he was not corrupt to the point of “demon-possession”, and that he would therefore be guided – at least in part – by an instinct for self-preservation, accordingly.

    I was wrong. My assumption was incorrect; Orange Clown is apparently every bit as “demon-possessed” as his predecessors, if not worse.

    At the time I voted for Orange Clown, I knew at some level of consciousness that if he was not what he was presenting himself to be, that we were, really REALLY in big trouble. IOW, he was either going to “drain the swamp”, or he was going to destroy us for the sake of his masters’ agenda.

    I agree that the proper moral choice was/is to stay home and not vote in any of these sham elections. (As a practical matter it probably doesn’t make much difference). I believe that a description of this sad situation is part of the message of Biblical prophecy. What’s happened in the U.S. (and the corrupt “West” in general) is that the Satanic first “beast” of Rev 13 has subverted the political process in the U.S., thereby creating the second beast of Rev 13:11 (aka the little horn of Daniel 7:8) – which is the office of president of the U.S. (and by extension whichever “man” holds that office).

    And the U.S. “government”, having lost all moral and constitutional legitimacy, and presided over by the second beast of Rev 13, has become “an image of the beast”; that is, it now exists solely to do the dirty work of the first beast.

    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @EliteCommInc.
  46. Dutch Boy says:

    Seems like Trump has two virtues: he is not Hillary Clinton or Mike Pence.

    • LOL: Z-man, Talha
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  47. Weaver1 says:
    @Joe Hide

    Joe Hide,

    Richard Weaver wrote about the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that in modern societies, workers don’t always know what they’re working on, don’t know what they’re a part of. Many workers unknowingly could have helped build the bombs that murdered so many.

    A cog doesn’t always know what the machine is doing that he’s a part of, and that is dangerous.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  48. @Bill

    Ha! I suspect we’ll be waiting a long, long time. These are same people who fall for charlatans doing bogus faith-healing and ‘speaking in tongues’.

  49. @jacques sheete

    This kinda reminds me of when Bibi visited Washington a few years back and addressed a joint session of congress. Does anyone else here remember that cringe-worthy scene? I think Bibi got more rounds of applause that night than Stalin ever did at the Supreme Soviet. As an American, I felt humiliated.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  50. What difference does it make , they are both controlled by Israel, just like Helliary, business as usual for the Zionist neocons who control the gov.

  51. Actually as practice the idea of being alone with any woman not your wife is just prudent. Last Saturday, I was caught off guard. but gradually being the same room alone with a female student became increasingly uncomfortable and i had to bugger out of there. I was surprised I had my guard down — maybe brain damage from getting run over. One doesn’t necessarily fear their own desires as much as understand the appearances matter and in this day and age — a man could be as one of my former students concluded incorrectly about me, asexual, and still find themselves in a maelstrom. This was a student i trust, by the way or least feel very comfortable with.Now had I been in the office with Dr. Joanna Williams, I could not in good conscience claim that she wouldn’t make my toes curled. Regardless, it’s just safe practice.

    Sigh.

    I like Vice Pres Pence. I think his support for the Pres has been admirable. I am unclear why the Pres selected him, his campaign was the opposite of the Pres on multiple issues. Despite my own fundamentalist leanings, there is nothing in scripture, not a single dot of text which demands a christians endorse carte blanche’ Israel as many fundamentalists do. It’s a liberty that should be exercised with more caution than I see. Not a single Apostle calls the people of God to condone every action of Israel or Jews — it’s just not there. I find it disturbing that so many of my fellow fundamentalists that when it comes to Israel, all the rules about scripture and context are thrown by the wayside, unless they are from the old testament or revelations — I can only shrug my shoulders. And the deeper one gets into scripture the more one should question the dispensational – dogma. More telling that Christ himself never advocates that Christians herald it as policy practice the end times.

    In fact Christ says, “pray that you are not alive when the time comes.” Hardly sounds like an admonition of advocacy.

    And excuse my harpiness about IQ, But I just don;t get. Here are supposedly the most vital mind inhabiting white wine skins but utterly devoid of a sense of proportionality or prudence on policy. One can certainly defend Israel’s right to exist with being lukewarm. Our foreign policy is chocker block loaded with whites of breeding and intelligence — yet – quagmires in the mundane muddy weakness. I am just unimpressed with the results.

    And those who advance the great bear metaphors continually fail to address, what’s missing in the coming battle — the great eagle as metaphor for the US. And more peculiar still is that if one is going to advance a pro-Israel dispensational (millenialest view) that would be more correctly centered on those Jews actually practicing their faith as opposed to the political manifestations that use faith as a means to justify behaviors – God himself condemns . . .

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    , @Alden
  52. @Dutch Boy

    “Seems like Trump has two virtues: he is not Hillary Clinton or Mike Pence.”

    Of course it’s academic at this point, but sometimes I think we would’ve been better off with the treasonous Hillary Clinton, who “carries [her] banner openly”, rather than the backstabbing “make America great again” traitorous Trojan horse, Orange Clown.

    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for [she] is known and carries [her] banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims [let's build a wall, let's make America great again, etc.] and he wears their face and their arguments [NATO is obsolete, let's cooperate with Russia, let's pull out of Afghanistan, let's investigate 9/11, it's illegal to invade Syria, etc.] he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist [you're either with Orange Clown or you're with Soros, etc.]. A murderer is less to fear.” (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

  53. Z-man says:
    @Harold Smith

    While I agree with your post I’m still holding out hope that his Jew-fawning is cover to get his social/domestic/immigration agenda thru and to still make nice-nice with Russia and to eventually cut Israel off…but that last point is just my wishful thinking. (Grin) But really, it’s nothing to laugh about!

    • Replies: @DaveE
  54. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    absolutely right. Trump is just controlled opposition. But what president hasn’t been controlled opposition?

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  55. Weaver1 says:
    @Harold Smith

    *Neocons like Kristol and Frum who feared Trump would ruin the empire.
    *Conservative Inc which feared Trump would disrupt the con-game.
    *Big business (especially Tech) which feared Trump would disrupt their supply of foreign labour
    *Crazy people like Glenn Beck and Rod Dreher who like to repeat how “conservative” they are.

    Often “Reagan Conservatives” is the term used. A great reply is that one is a “Coolidge Conservative” or Buchananite, Trumplican, Paleo, etc.

    “Reagan Conservatives” want taxes cut, foreign spending increased, bad trade to bribe foreign polities with. They’re flexible on immigration, sometimes taking strong positions. They believe America is an “ideological nation” (the ideology being cult worship of the empire, though it’s portrayed differently), that we have some special duty to bomb and foment chaos. And they advocate mass surveillance.

    The argument against such people is that if they’re willing to do such horrible things to foreigners, and if they view America as an “ideological nation” while welcoming in refugees from their disasters, then they’d be willing to do the same to American citizens as well.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  56. Alden says:
    @Sherman

    Never fear Israel is now and has been safe and strong since 1948. Israel doesn’t need a speech by Pence to state the obvious.

  57. DaveE says:
    @Z-man

    Trump is gonna have to pull a really, really BIG rabbit out of his hat, at this point, to get me back on his side. At this point his “decency deficit” is well into the “bankruptcy” zone.

    Thanks again to Mr. Giraldi for another hard-hitting wake-up call. Hope these “Christian” morons hear it.

  58. stu piddy says:

    Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior loves America because America and Israel stand tall against the oppression of the state of Israel by those whose blindness keeps them from seeing that they, and we Americans are truly the children of God. Not only was, and is Jesus or in Spanish Hey Zeus!, a resident of Israel, but he was a solid citizen who obeyed the laws of Caeser while tending to his own beliefs.

    Jesus’s parents, the lovely Mr. and Mrs. Christ were also from Israel and although Jesus was born out of wedlock, the result of the Holy Ghost, (who is also Jesus) having immaculate sex with Mary while she slept, he never let this become a scandal but rather a mystery by which not even Harvey Weinstein could understand. But if Mr. Weinstein did understand it, he could certainly use it as a plausible defense for his own action, which because of his nationality should be forgiven.

    That Jesus who is also the Holy Ghost (and God) had sex with his own mother in order to give birth to himself, is a mystery that few can comprehend, not even our wonderful Mr. Pence. When ugly truth becomes unpalatable, incredible untruths, or “lies” that are unbearably unbelievable take their place and are forced down the throats of those who refuse to believe. Jesus’s story is central to this and we have only to thank the twisted, convoluted non-believers for making his story one who some still question. Mike Pence is not one of “those”. He knows the truth and will use the full force of American Power if necessary, to save us from the Satan of Truth.

    • LOL: Alden
  59. @Wally

    haha, you make it sound like donald is any different when it comes to jewish influence. mr my grandson is a jew at aipac.

  60. @Weaver1

    “*Neocons like Kristol and Frum who feared Trump would ruin the empire.
    *Conservative Inc which feared Trump would disrupt the con-game.
    *Big business (especially Tech) which feared Trump would disrupt their supply of foreign labour
    *Crazy people like Glenn Beck and Rod Dreher who like to repeat how “conservative” they are.”

    The thing is, talk is cheap. I don’t think you can assume that any of that “fear” is (or was ever) genuine. For example, how can “neocons” have any actual “fear” of Trump when his aggressive foreign policy makes Obama look like Mister Rogers?

    I think the phrase “Never Trumper” (or whatever it is) is just a label used in a propaganda ploy (just like “truther”, “conspiracy theorist”, etc.) to stigmatize Trump critics who’ve become justifiably disillusioned and disgusted with his betrayals.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
    , @Twodees Partain
  61. Talha says:

    According to Reprieve UK, Trump’s administration has led to a massive escalation on drone strikes:
    “The CIA’s own leaked documents concede that the US often does not know who it is killing, and that militant leaders’ account for just 2% of drone-related deaths. Over 250 children have been killed in Pakistan and Yemen….The first year of the Trump administration has resulted in more loss of life from drone strikes than all eight years of Obama’s presidency.”

    https://reprieve.org.uk/update/game-changer-trumps-new-attacks-on-human-rights/

    Peace.

  62. @Harold Smith

    Cicero got his head off and so should you.
    There should be no support of Zionist New York times, Washington post and CNN.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  63. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I really don’t know what you’re talking about. Can you please elaborate?

    • Replies: @RobinG
  64. biz says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    At least you admit that Giraldi lied here. Baby steps…

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  65. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Seamus Padraig

    This kinda reminds me of when Bibi visited Washington a few years back and addressed a joint session of congress. Does anyone else here remember that cringe-worthy scene? I think Bibi got more rounds of applause that night than Stalin ever did at the Supreme Soviet. As an American, I felt humiliated.

    As should anyone with a modicum of self-respect, which was totally absent in our elected representatives.

    Beyond shameful. Disgusting groveling.

  66. neutral says:
    @Sherman

    Of course you would support a race traitor that is more concerned about the well being of jews than whites.

  67. RobinG says:
    @Harold Smith

    LOL. No, it (he/she? could it be a bot?) can’t elaborate. Only spews out random nonsense. Best to ignore.

  68. Truth says:

    Where did you find a photo of these two clowns making a normal handshake?

    • Replies: @Talha
  69. Weaver1 says:
    @Harold Smith

    Kristol was fuming over specific issues during the primaries. Justin Raimondo, similarly, was pleased with Trump for the same reasons.

    Trump in some ways has become a Neocon dream, but he’s also a wildcard.

    Take Korea: Peace is breaking out. Now, maybe Trump didn’t want peace, but it’s happening.
    Take Syria: Assad is still in power.

    The RussiaGate stuff was intended to drive Trump out or at least pressure him not to get close to Russia.

    They also hate Trump’s followers. People like me are never supposed to be heard, certainly never represented. Middle American Radicals, flyover country, poor whites, Southrons, etc.

    -

    Obama might have been less pro-Israel, but he still played ball. Obama destroyed Libya, attacked Yemen, supported terrorists in Syria, supported a coup in Ukraine. Maybe Obama didn’t really want these things, but he let them happen. Obama viewed Libya as not his fault.

    Israel might be demonising Obama today, but that doesn’t mean Obama was more peaceful than Trump. It just means currently Israel thinks, or says, that Trump is better in some form.

    We have no war with Iran currently, no war with Venezuela and NK. I’m content on foreign policy, though not pleased.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Harold Smith
    , @chris
  70. Talha says:
    @Truth

    You mean; as opposed to holding each others’ something-else?

    • Replies: @Truth
  71. CF says:
    @stu piddy

    So what you’re saying is that God (Jesus, the Holy Ghost) went to Mary while she was asleep and had sex with her?

    Any prior consent?

    If not, that’s a crime where I live.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Mary 14 or 15 at the time?

    So you’re saying that God had sex with his under age mother without prior consent!

    What a basis for a religion

    • Replies: @stu piddy
  72. @Harold Smith

    Hmmmm . . .

    have been having more than my fair share of disappointments with the current exec. But I am hopeful that I am just missing a strategy or some yet unforeseen hurdle.

    I knew his bent was situational leadership, but he made clear some issues were nonnegotiable, I was sure immigration was one of them as well as regime change ——

    But he is the man I voted for and while I may want to dump him. The coach/facilitator/instructor in me says — we don’t dump people just because they need work. It’s a long term process and bailing is the very last of lasts and lasts resorts —

    And that sword of Damoclese is no small thing.

    So I stay in support where I came in as painful as it may be and counter to my own well being as it feels — hopefully it’s just a feeling.

  73. Truth says:
    @Talha

    Nah, I can probably go on the dark web and find that in 5 minutes.

  74. DaveE says:
    @Jake

    You say: “You cannot separate the ‘Jewish problem’ from the ‘WASP problem.’”

    I reply, with you in mind: You can’t separate the “Jewish Problem” from the “Troll Problem.”

    AND, as Mr. Giraldi notes: You can’t separate the “Jewish Problem’ from the fundumbentalist “Christian” problem.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @Jake
  75. Rich says:

    First of all, it goes against all American traditions to attack a man for his religion. I’m surprised Mr Giraldi decided to go down this path. Secondly, I’ve been able to find nothing that states the Vice President Pence follows the Scofield Reference Bible or that he’s a Dispensationalist. In this day of #Metoo, not being alone with the harridans is probably a good idea.

    You can point a finger at Trump, Pence, Mattis or whoever, but the fact is that at the upper levels of American government, there is complete and total support for Israel. Democrat or Republican, Conservative or Liberal, Libertarian or Progressive, every last American politician is one hundred percent behind Israel. Get used to it.

  76. @Z-man

    Anyone who couldn’t have eviscerated Kaine in a debate probably doesn’t speak English.

  77. @EliteComminc.

    Not a single Apostle calls the people of God to condone every action of Israel or Jews …

    No, for that matter, did the prophets … and they themselves were Jewish!

  78. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    My sentiments exactly. I’ll take it further and say that it ain’t just white people who are being robbed of their heritage. Some of the loudest accusations of racism and antisemitism come from the democrats. The second loudest come from the republicans.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
  79. @Alden

    JFK was his own man, as was RFK and JFKjr., and that is why they were assassinated.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @Alden
  80. RobinG says:
    @Weaver1

    Obama might have been less pro-Israel, but he still played ball. Obama destroyed Libya, attacked Yemen, supported terrorists in Syria, supported a coup in Ukraine. Maybe Obama didn’t really want these things, but he let them happen. Obama viewed Libya as not his fault.

    Right.

    • Replies: @JoaoAlfaiate
  81. @Seamus Padraig

    Wikipedia is wrong as usual. All of the concept of dispensationalism were around long before Darby. All are found in scripture and scripture itself is obviously dispensational. Find out what the term means and then read the Bible for yourself. It’s pretty obvious. Paul also teaches the rapture in his letters to the Thessalonians.

    The idea that Dispensationalists think everything in Scripture is to be taken literally is both false and ignorant. There is a lot in scripture that is figurative language and one of the principles of hermeneutics is determination of the sort of thing you are reading.

    Instead of ignorantly raving, you need to put your nose in scripture yourself, instead of regurgitating someone else’s nonsense.

  82. @Harold Smith

    “I think the phrase “Never Trumper” (or whatever it is) is just a label used in a propaganda ploy (just like “truther”, “conspiracy theorist”, etc.) to stigmatize Trump critics who’ve become justifiably disillusioned and disgusted with his betrayals.”

    Yep. You saved me some typing. That’s the most common use of the term I see these days: Trumpeteers lashing out at anyone who is critical of Trump.

  83. @Harold Smith

    I see your point, but I still think we’re better off with Trump than with Hellary.

    By way of illustration, consider the following scenario: What if Hellary were president, and she (with the prompting of the neocons, of course) deciding it was time to bomb yet another defenseless little thirdworld “shithole” back in to the stone age? Think about it. How would the media react? Would they be critical of her? Oh no! They would be ecstatic! ‘Hooray!’ they would cheer. ‘Hooray for Grrrrrl power!’ Destroying that little country would be marketed as an act of women’s lib. (No need to be hypothetical either. Do you remember when she greenlighted the destruction of Libya? After which Khaddaffi was sodomized to death with a bayonet? Do you remember that ghastly interview she gave, gloating over his terribly gruesome death? She told the interviewer, “We came, we saw, he died!” Then she cackled hysterically. It was painful to watch. Did she suffer any media fallout over this? Hardly. She was represented as a tough, firm Secretary of State, who was always ready to make ‘hard choices’.)

    Now, contrast the situation with Donald Trump: He doesn’t have to attack any country at all. Just let him make one little tweet about, say, North Korea, and the MSM are all up his ass. Over a lousy, fricken’ tweet! So practically speaking, what does this mean? It means Trump–merely by being Trump–creates a serious image problem for The Evil Empire. And I say … good! The worse a spokesman the neocons & ziocons have, the harder it will be to assemble any more ‘coalitions of the willing’ when the time comes.

    The world does not need American leadership, and America does not need to lead the world.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  84. @stu piddy

    Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior loves America because America and Israel stand tall against the oppression of the state of Israel by those whose blindness keeps them from seeing that they, and we Americans are truly the children of God.

    And what about all those people bombed, droned, strafed and put to flight by Tel Aviv and Washington? What are they? Children of a lesser god?

    • Replies: @RobinG
  85. Weaver1 says:
    @Twodees Partain

    South Korea recently passed some sort of civil rights law. So, Koreans appear to be oppressed.

    And I constantly hear how Japan “must” open its borders to mass immigration.

    Globalists want to destroy everyone.

  86. Truth says:

    JFK, and Jimmy Carter were both their own men! Oh, wait…hold on…

  87. @biz

    They were removed only because they violated Parliamentary rules…

    Since when did rules mean anything to Zionists?

    And why are the Zio-trolls consistently selectively so captious?

    Speaking of rules, why did you choose to not comment on these incidents?

    The high point of the visit was Pence’s speech in the Knesset plenum. This in itself was curious. Such honors are reserved for foreign heads of state. Pence, as a mere vice, had no such right.

    Contrary to the US congress, the Knesset does not allow applause. In all my 10 years as a member, during which I attended every single session, I don’t remember a single hand-clap, not to mention multiple standing ovations.

    -Uri Avnery, The Jumping Parliament

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1517052482/

    The hasbara troll brigades need a little more practice; they’re gettin sloppy and altogether too transparent.

  88. @Sherman

    I applaud VP Pence’s support for a safe and strong Israel.

    Be sure to flush after yer finished.

    Yuck.

  89. @Rich

    I don’t suppose anyone ever attacked Obama for being a closet Muslim….

  90. @RobinG

    And Obama saw what had happened in Iraq before he decided to intervene in Libya.

  91. @biz

    At least you admit that Giraldi lied here. Baby steps…

    Likely he made a minor mistake here. Calling it a lie without proof that it was intended as such is a lie, liar.

    Now, go troll someplace else preferably for your sake, somewhere that your mendacity and simple mindedness won’t be too obvious..

    • Replies: @biz
  92. @DaveE

    Well,

    in a previous discussion I think there is plenty of examples that indicate it is entirely possible to be a fundamentalist without condoning everything Israel does or says. And there is nothing in scripture that suggests Israel is immune from critique from bible thumpers such as myself.

    But those christians are are not in office. And furthermore neither are those mainstream non-fundamentalists who agree, that support for Israel is not and should not be sacrosanct. So while I fully grasp the contention concerning bible believers, I am not as convinced that its as black white as Mr. Giraldi (I always want to say agent Giraldi– because I am not sure anyone that deep in the field ever really retires. Smile) who is among many that contend being a fundamentalist by itself abets the kind of policy we endure regarding Israel.

    There are three presidents that I consider to be more circumspect on Israeli intentions support for US goals: Pres Eisenhower, Pres Nixon and Pres Carter. And all three operated during very intense cold war era environments.

    • Agree: iffen
  93. @Rich

    First of all, it goes against all American traditions to attack a man for his religion.

    Why, then, all the wanking over Islam the past couple of decades?

    • Replies: @Rich
  94. @Weaver1

    “Kristol was fuming over specific issues during the primaries.”

    As I recall, lots of “establishment” talking heads were “fuming”; but that was part of the plan (to deceive), IMO.

    “Justin Raimondo, similarly, was pleased with Trump for the same reasons.”

    No doubt he was pleased with the apparent anti-interventionist position Trump appeared to be taking; as was I and many other former Trump supporters.

    “Take Korea: Peace is breaking out. Now, maybe Trump didn’t want peace, but it’s happening.”

    What’s your point? Trump is an evil, jew-controlled buffoon who apparently wants a war on the Korean Peninsula; who’s apparently been trying to start a war on the Korean Peninsula; and who has been so far, luckily, out-maneuvered by adults who don’t want a war.

    That doesn’t mean that Trump won’t eventually get his war, it merely means that his handlers’ plans have been stymied so far.

    Same thing happened to Obama in Syria, remember? Obama tried to start a war against the Syrian government using the old reliable “Assad gassed his own people” trick, but he was out maneuvered by Vladimir Putin. Does that mean Obama really works for little old us and not the jews? No. Does that mean that Obama should get credit for not starting a war against Syria? No; the credit goes to the adult, Putin, who was able to prevent the war Obama wanted.

    “Take Syria: Assad is still in power.”

    You’re implying that this somehow reflects favorably on Trump? Seriously? Let’s be honest and admit that “plan A” to oust Assad was doomed before Trump was even inaugurated. Let’s be honest a little bit more and admit that Trump’s illegal, immoral and unconstitutional military adventure in Syria clearly implies that a “plan B” or perhaps by now “plan C” is in the works.

    “Obama might have been less pro-Israel, but he still played ball.”

    You’re really splitting hairs.

    “Obama destroyed Libya, attacked Yemen, supported terrorists in Syria, supported a coup in Ukraine.”

    Unfortunately for the jews, Libya was apparently the last of the “low-hanging fruit”. Syria, or anything else beyond that, will be very costly. That Obama plucked this last piece of imperial low-hanging fruit and not Trump is merely a consequence of the fact that Obama preceded Trump.

    And of course Trump supports the ongoing genocidal war against Yemen, supports anti-government terrorists in Syria, claims that Russia must give back Crimea, and recently escalated the crisis in Ukraine by supplying anti-tank missiles to the Ukrainian “government”. So I don’t see your point.

    “Maybe Obama didn’t really want these things, but he let them happen. Obama viewed Libya as not his fault.”

    Huh?

    “We have no war with Iran currently, no war with Venezuela and NK. I’m content on foreign policy, though not pleased.”

    Seriously? Trump has escalated tensions EVERYWHERE, in every context; militarily, diplomatically and economically. Instead of making anything better in any way, Trump’s taken Obama’s mess and made everything worse. (And from the statements of Russian government spokespersons, it’s apparently become clear to the Russians that Trump is just as deceitful and generally evil as Obama).

    In a different context, your statement would be like someone saying: “Well we’re all captive passengers on a bus, and the bus driver’s drunk and going way too fast, we’re on a narrow winding mountain road, at night, with poor visibility, in a snow storm, with a sheer 500 ft. cliff, there are patches of ice all over the place, but so far we’re still alive, so I’m content, but not pleased.”

  95. It’s too bad Pence isn’t a Quaker. That speech would have been very different.

  96. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah, it’s true that the Israelis treat the Palestinians like shit. Israel still has every right to exist.

    I also believe there is nothing wrong with the United States supporting Israel. The problem is blind support.

    Many jews, like many other people, have real character flaws. This doesn’t mean we wish them out of existence.

    Israel needs to be more open to criticism. It argues with the world like a husband or wife who refuses to accept any blame for failures within the relationship. It makes them appear to be a very small and petty people.

    They are not great friends. But friendly enough to work with. Trump, Pence and other leaders of the United States and Europe should be harder on them.

    I hope nothing bad happens to Israel. It isn’t the evil place it’s portrayed to be.

    And whatever the Palestinians good qualities, they are clearly wrongheaded in some serious way. Much like inner city blacks in America.

  97. RobinG says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Seamus, I think that whole post was sarcastic (and hilarious, once that became clear).

  98. This column and its accompanying lunacy provide a testimony to utter madness and moral depravity.

    There are so many sick people in the world and they tend to congregate around the foul shithole of anti-semitism and bizarre ass licking of Palestinian terrorism.

    This is an internet shithole full of turds.

    God, you morons need to shut up and go away. Don’t advertise your stupidity and obnoxiousness. Do yourselves a favor. Shut up. People don’t need to know how stupid and vile you are.

    Take my advice. It’s good advice.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Sean
    , @anon
    , @JoaoAlfaiate
  99. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Shouting Thomas

    Another Jew foaming at the mouth. That’s when you know the article is on point.

    Trump needs to fire Nikki Haley and replace her with John Kelly at the UN.

    • Replies: @anon
  100. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Looks like Alan Dershowitz is now Mike Pence’s speech writer.

    At least now we know why Nikki Haley the attack dog for Israel was selected for the UN over the much more qualified and intelligent Tulsi Gabbard. Haley is neither Christian nor Jewish, how does an Indian Sikh become the most zealous supporter of Israel? There is simply no other way to explain her zealotry, the bitch is having a menage a trois with Yahoo and Pence.

    As the head of Trump’s transition team, Pence was responsible for bringing in all the umpteen Cohens from Wall Street, Haley, Tillerson, McMaster, Kelly, Rosenstein, Kushner and Mattis into Trump’s cabinet. Instead of draining the swamp, Pence was refilling the swamp, especially with fucking Rosenstein as deputy AG.

    Pence IS the swamp!

  101. Sean says:
    @Shouting Thomas

    Even the worst of the antisemites don’t dare say what they think except while hiding behind a pseudonym, why? My reading on this post is that Pence is supposed to be influenced by his evangelicalism (like Bush and Arthur Balfour) . Ignoring that the neocons advising smashing states in the ME are mainly Jewish and thus have a dog in the fight is common sense because the allegation of antisemitism is to be feared.

    Unfortunately, Jewish advisers just have have an ability to gain the ear of leaders, often by telling them what they want to hear. The US commitment to the Vietnam war was largely due to the influence of Walt Rostow.

  102. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:

    Yea, that’s a good illustration of the difference between bad and even worse. Just like 2016 elections.

  103. nickels says:

    Chiliasm, millenialism, however one wants to call it, the Evangelical nonsense, was condemned by the church at the council of Nicea and is heretical.
    This is why it is so important to join a real church, not one of these sham protestant cults.

    “..and his kindgom shall have no end” was added to the creed to make it clear there is no 1000 year reign on earth followed by one in heaven.

    http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/end/chiliasm.shtml

    Remember the Nakba.

    • Agree: Alden
  104. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Randal

    The GOP has always been Israel’s party. The DNC didn’t use to be, it was run by old school liberals like John Kerry. Then the Jews took over the DNC, now we have a uni party in DC as far as Israel and immigration are concern, Support Israel or Support Israel, For Unlimited Immigration or For Unlimited Immigration, take your pick, your vote counts.

  105. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Trump needs to fire Nikki Haley and replace her with John Kelly at the UN.

    I meant John Kerry. Keep saying one when I meant the other, two small letters, huge difference.

  106. @Quartermaster

    Hmmmm, mentions getting caught up in the air. We have been in pretribulation since Christ’s departure. Christ himself says clearly,

    No one know the time or the hour of his coming. Not even the son knows. Only the father knows.

    There will be signs and wonders, there will be wars and rumors of wars and some will say there he is now is the time — but the time is not then. When the end times arrive, the Church is to be prepared, by remaining pure (whole) as bride for the bridegroom and is to have done all she can to spread the gospel. The entire process is so loaded with imagery and remains a point of contention among fundamentalists.

    But if in fact believers do a they ought according to the Holy Spirit — the issue of the rapture, tribulation to follow — to restoration of a new heaven and new earth take care of themselves. For those interested here is one of the clearest renderings I have read on the end times regarding the rapture:

    http://doctrine.org/the-rapture

    https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/does-rapture-occur-before-tribulation-period/

    For all of the complaints about the lack of intellectual vigor of fundamentalists — tackling end times occurrences and meanings is fairly heady work.

    Note: there are fundamentalists who think all this has largely taken place under Roman rule and is part of a phase process. Many Christians thought they were in the tribulation. I also find this understanding compelling — but no one who is a believer is going to lose out on faith because they got the details of when Christ is returning incorrect. I suspect that is why Christ and all the apostles — be believers – be prepared –

    http://gideonz.tripod.com/articles/Rapture.htm

    One of the passages that gives me pause is the reference to the anti-christ (laughing — this all sounds nuts to non-fundamentalists and off the wall to nonbelievers). The antichrist is going to take seat in the temple — that temple is in Israel – the abomination will be at the seat of power in Israel — that passage should cause anyone walking in these waters pause. Because while eventually Christ will overthrow him (her for the sake equity) I think it is a safe bet — our militarization will be the tools that will be the great destruction — the global wars – etc. So while our justification in protecting or aiding Israel may plenty of scriptural veracity — the mass militarization in view has counter implications. In the same way christians should be cautious about supporting the expansion of government of force — all will be tools in persecuting the faithful as things turn against people of faith.

    So while I can certainly support Israel — I don’t understand why any christian would be engaged in some kind of carte blache’ whatever Israel does is of God. I just don’t buy it.

    If I take the matter literally, then God will be the protector and the resurrection of Israel.

    • Replies: @Alden
  107. Why does the world put up with this pig sty?

    “Israel has the dubious distinction of being the only country in the world that systematically prosecutes an estimated 500 to 700 children each year in military courts lacking fundamental fair trial rights,” according to Defense for Children International-Palestine.

    Israel’s military kangaroo courts have a near-100 percent conviction rate for Palestinians.
    There are currently about 350 Palestinian children in Israeli jails.

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/youngest-children-held-israel-jailed-months

    What next?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  108. Ben_C says:

    Maybe we can replace Trump with his son in law…

    Not sure what the Constitution says about all that, but hey the Constitution can always be amended.

    On the bright side, at least someone is listening to Randy Paul and recognizing Israel’s “remarkable restraint”:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/381726/tragedy-israel-rand-paul

    It’s about time…

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  109. some of his idiosyncrasies like “never eat[ing] alone with a woman other than his wife.” Whether that was true because of the apparently overwhelming sexual urges that seem to afflict nearly all congressmen and Hollywood producers, or because of something in the Bible, or even to avoid possible allegations of misbehavior,

    I have known several men in positions of responsibility, going back to the 1980′s, who had this policy. It served to protect their reputation from any appearance of wrongdoing. They all had blanket policies that they would never meet with a woman, not their wife, without another person being party to the meeting.

    • Agree: RobinG
    • Replies: @Alden
  110. It’s curious how various supreme court rulings involving the ‘separation of Church and State’ have been applied uncompromisingly to 1) impose a prohibition of (Christian) prayer in schools, 2) establish a gag order on teaching or comparing religion in the public classroom, and 3) outlaw Christian religious displays on public property.

    Oddly, these court-mandated prohibitions have never diminished or undermined the unique and artificial ‘unshakable’ alliance between the Jewish State and its subservient whores on Capitol Hill and in the White House.

    Democracy is great! Kill the terrorists!

  111. I intended to mention Pres George Sr. and Pres George Bush Jr. in expecting something equitable with respect to Israel’s behavior toward the Palestinians.

  112. @Seamus Padraig

    “I see your point, but I still think we’re better off with Trump than with Hellary.”

    At this point, that question boils down to a purely academic “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” kind of thing, IMO.

    A much more meaningful line of inquiry would be something like: Why did Trump decide to make a serious run for president in the first place”? Why NOW? Why would a wealthy, 70 year old non-career politician with everything going for him (materially) in the private sector want to ostensibly risk his life by involving himself in the mess that is U.S. politics and openly challenging “the powers that be”?

    Common sense reasoning leads me to think that Trump must’ve been motivated by some pretty serious convictions. And this is where I start running into problems. I believe that Trump either: (A) “knowingly, willingly and calculatingly intended to save ‘America’ from the ‘beast’”; or (B) “Trump knowingly, willingly and calculatingly intended to save the ‘beast’ and its agenda from an America that was getting sick and tired of being the beast’s ‘hammer’”. IOW, I can’t believe that a person in Trump’s position in life would seriously run for president when he did “just for the hell of it” or “just for a taste of power”. So which is it?

    Taking the reasoning a step further: If his “America first” “drain the swamp” convictions were so strong that he was willing to risk his life to become president and try to implement them in the face of withering opposition, then they are strong enough that he’s not going to be talked out of them by somebody whispering sweet nothings in his ear after the election.

    In light of this kind of reasoning, I am forced to conclude that Trump’s campaign was a calculated “bait and switch” fraud from the beginning.

  113. The Episcopalians are known as God’s Frozen People and are the fools that got us into this mess. Followed closely on the heels by Catholics and Preterists at that, they’ve been blaring the Onward Christian Soldier! to Church Militant telling all who will hear that THEY are going to bring in the Kingdom of Christ on the earth for 1000 years (isn’t that a Reich?) and straighten everyone out or else! As a lowly Baptist who advises that Christ Himself is going to rule on this planet and do the killing, I get looked at sideways–like I took away their “Murder All You Want Toy”. But when I tell them that what they want is what Muslims want with their Mahdi messiah, I am immediately besieged with loathing and in a few instances couched violence.

    Mikey P is my brother in Christ, but a complete loon. The Bible tells me to pray for Israel to accept her Messiah and nothing else. I’m not instructed to do anything else for anyone else but pray for them and preach the Gospel. If they accept it and get converted then as my newfound sibling in Christ I am obligated to show them familial charity. If they reject the Gospel, then I am not obligated to do anything. I still do to a degree, but no where near what I do for a fellow Christian.

    The US Govt needs to get out of Israel and every other nations internal affairs and mind her own business.

    http://takimag.com/article/gods_frozen_people_charles_coulombe/print#axzz55i3nrXFi

    The Power of Their Glory, America’s Ruling Class, the Episcopalians 1978

    https://www.amazon.com/Power-Their-Glory-Americas-Episcopalians/dp/0883261553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517351615&sr=8-1&keywords=the+power+of+their+glory

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Alden
  114. @Jake

    Archetypal WASP Oliver Cromwell made alliance with Jews, granting them special rights and privileges, specifically to secure money to wage war against the vast majority of British Isles Christians, after which he could turn the WASP culture’s attention to spreading its gospel globally.

    I do not think that this statement is correct.

    Jews were banned from England. So he could not make a deal with them.
    I would have to check when he precisely let the Jews in but I would bet that he let them in after he finished his campaign. Even if he let them in earlier the Jews had to be settled before they started to make money. Cromwell let the Jews in as a favor to his Jewish wife.

  115. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I am beginning to think Pence has been secretly working to subvert Trump from day 1, by getting him impeached so he could be President. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had a lot to do with Trump asking Ryan to stay on, they’re probably working together on this. That would explain Pence’s transition team hiring all the swamp creatures that Trump campaigned against — the Wall Street liberals, neocon generals, Zionist tards like Nikki Haley, Tillerson, Mattis, McMaster, the most pro-immigration traitors Andy Puzder and then Alexander Acosta as Labor secretary, pro-immigration John Kelly then Kirstjen Nielsen for DHS, the IT and Economic council filled with industry heads who are all big time pro immigration, and most of all Rod Rosenstein to be deputy AG, no doubt as insurance policy — all the swamp creatures Trump supporters wanted to throw out of DC! Pence and his transition team was responsible for hiring all of these people, while pushing out the one guy who staked his career to support Trump when he was at an all time low — Chris Christie.

    I think Pence has been working behind the scenes with Ryan to subvert Trump, and no doubt Pence plays a big hand in making Trump go against everything he campaigned for. Look for Trump to majorly sellout his base on immigration. Now that the whole Russian Collusion thing is falling apart and Rosenstein looks like might be on his way out(though Paul Ryan insisted today that Rod is doing a “fine” job), they need Plan B to get Trump hated and booted out by his base. John Kelly and Kirstjen Nielsen are mostly responsible for putting together this latest mass amnesty plan from the white house.

    Trump is a buffoon. He is being played like a pawn by Pence and Ryan and doesn’t even know it.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  116. Rurik says:
    @jacques sheete

    What next?

    well Jacques, they shoot children from rooftops for fun, and this is documented

    What more do we need to know about Mike Pence’s servile groveling to a Satanic regime than that?!

    Many of the Palestinians that are persecuted and/or shot for their organs, are Mike Pence’s fellow Christians, but far be it from that stopping him from his invoking the Lamb of Peace to shill his brand of genocidal bloodlust.

    Christians (like many Jews and Muslims and others) are of often of the authoritarian personality.

    They worship power, and assume that whomever wields it, must necessarily be wielding it because God wants them to. Or they wouldn’t have it. So they’re obeisant in their submission to power, and fervently hostile to those who don’t also submit. And when you add the religious angle, they believe that God is on their side, and against those who don’t also abase themselves with equal enthusiasm to the people (divinely anointed by default) wielding earthly power.

    So these sheep-like people (most), genuflect to raw, earthy power, even as they invoke the Lamb of Peace to justify mass-murder and torture and slavery and theft and genocide just about every other abhorrent atrocity known to human”kind”.

    it is written

    I suspect that Trump despises Pence. But that he had to select someone like Pence to get the evangelical vote.

    The Zionists have spent untold billions of our dollars buying the Christian preachers in this nation, and putting their mugs in front of the cameras to herd the sheep to their rapture, once all the Palestinians have been slaughtered. Muslim, and Christian.

    so on that glorious day, when most of their fellow humans will burn in God’s wrathful flames of judgment…

    they will float up to enjoy a thousand year boehner with Jesus Himself

    wouldn’t you want to slaughter some Palestinian children too if it meant you can force Jesus to come back and give you a thousand year boehner to rapture with in His company?

  117. Logical thinking, Mark, at # 110, you’re late and I wondered where you are.

    “Democracy is great! Kill the terrorists!”

    Re; your Orwellian sentence above, a respectful reversal, below?

    Democracy is killed and great terrorists are respected & employed by the “Jewish state and Capitol Hill whores.”

    Thanks, Mark!

  118. Talha says:
    @Wyatt Pendleton

    Hey Wyatt,

    But when I tell them that what they want is what Muslims want with their Mahdi messiah

    The Mahdi (as) is not the Messiah – our Liege, Jesus the Son of Mary (as) is. Imam Mahdi (as) will be at the vanguard and is the precursor to his return. The Son of Mary (as) has been given the title “Messiah” and will be the one who eventually rules – this, of course, is the Sunni Orthodox understanding.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Dan Herman
  119. renfro says:
    @JoaoAlfaiate

    Independence from ME oil” is impossible even if the USA imports not a single drop from that region

    .

    You are only half right….the US only gets 24 to 25% of it oil out side the US with Canada as our largest importer. …we could easily import more from non ME countries.
    And while we import 10.1 million barrels per day we also export about 5.2 MMb/d which makes our net imports only about 4.9 MMb/d.

    It is other countries that are dependent on ME oil and our interest in ME oil is in ensuring no disruption in supply to other countries due to the global economy connections.

    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=32&t=6

    In 2016, U.S. net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum from foreign countries were equal to about 25% of U.S. petroleum consumption. This percentage was up slightly from 24% in 2015, which was the lowest level since 1970.
    Petroleum includes crude oil and petroleum products. Petroleum products include gasoline, diesel fuel, heating oil, jet fuel, chemical feedstocks, asphalt, biofuels (ethanol and biodiesel), and other products

    In 2016, the United States imported approximately 10.1 million barrels per day (MMb/d) of petroleum from about 70 countries. Petroleum includes crude oil, natural gas plant liquids, liquefied refinery gases, refined petroleum products such as gasoline and diesel fuel, and biofuels including ethanol and biodiesel. About 78% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil.
    In 2016, the United States exported about 5.2 MMb/d of petroleum to 101 countries. Most of the exports were petroleum products. The resulting net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum were about 4.9 MMb/d.
    The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2016 were Canada, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico, and Colombia

    Top sources and amounts of U.S. petroleum imports (percent share of total) 2016

    Import sources Gross imports
    Canada 3.80 (38%)
    Saudi Arabia 1.11 (11%)
    Venezuela 0.80 (8%)
    Mexico 0.67 (7%)
    Colombia 0.48 (5%)

  120. Alden says:
    @Quartermaster

    I had enough of scripture in Sunday school. I was a cynical child who tended to the old French “ don’t listen to what he says, look at what he does “. way of observation.

    I accepted God driving Adam and Eve out of paradise for eating an apple. Cain and Abel didn’t bother me. But then we got to the original dead beat Dad, Abraham. Not only did he force sex on his slave,Hagar, but as soon as his wife had a baby boy he drove Hagar and his toddler son out to the desert to die of heat and thrist

    Of all the things I studied on Sunday school, that made the biggest impression on me, callously kicking them out to die.

    Was Abraham also the crazy old coot who started to kill his son because he was insane and a voice from the sky told him to kill his only son? Just as the knife started it’s plunge the crazy old coot heard a voice from the sky reprieving the son

    Further along there was another evil old coot who conned a young man into being a slave for 7 years if the young man wanted to marry daughter A.

    At the wedding the bride was swathed in burka and yards of veils. When the bride took off the veils surprise surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The bride was daughter B so the son in law was stupid enough to agree to be a slave for another 7 years to get daughter A. And they all lived happily ever after.

    But the worst, the very worst of the worst was the book of Dinah. Her father was the local Jewish sheik. The Jews had their eye on the territory of the local goyim. So Dinah’s father told her to flirt with the son of the goy sheik. She did and they got engaged with the stipulation that the boy sheik agreed to circumcision of all the male goyim.

    The idiot agreed. The Jews knew that circumcisions turned septic and by the third day the circumcised were comatose with fever or dead.

    So the Jews slew them all and took their land and belongings.

    I didn’t mind Jael and Judith. It was war But why did the Jewish angel have to kill all the goy babies of Egypt before the Jews left????

    One thing about the Hebrew Bible. Lot offering his daughters to the evil sodomites and later having sex with them to preserve the purity of the tribe. Cheating a son in law out of 14 years of labor.

    The Harlot of Jericho, sex slaves the book of Dinah, slaughtering every Egyptian baby; are those sex, violence, lying, cheating ,stealing stories suitable for children? The entire Hebrew bible is R rated not suitable for under 18.

    Abraham, the original dead beat Dad

    Another thing that comes up in Sunday school is what is circumcision? The teacher told us we would learn what it was in high school.

    I’ve always felt the major reason for the reformation and the Protestant obsessions with the Hebrew Bible was enjoyment of its pornography, violence and crime.

    The Christian part of the Bible is just as ridiculous. But the peace love don’t spend your life cheating, lying and stealing are excellent lessons for life.

    Why didn’t the early Christians just dump the porn, violence lying stealing and cheating part of the Bible? They should have.

    But at the wedding, the bride was swathed in burka abs veils

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Wyatt Pendleton
    , @Anon
    , @Truth
  121. renfro says:
    @anon

    I think Pence has been working behind the scenes with Ryan to subvert Trump,

    I have thought that a possibility also.

    I agree with Giraldi…we should keep Trump….better the clown in clown clothing then the hyena Pence in sheep’s clothing.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
  122. adude says:

    What part of the bible do most dispensationalists not understand

    1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 

    Here is clear command on how to treat enemies

    Mat_5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  123. Alden says:
    @Wyatt Pendleton

    The American Episcopal church and their mother church the C of E is nothing but a homosexual front any more.

    Why should a White man pray for the Jews who forced school bussing, affirmative action, and unlimited non White immigration on us?

    Do you think they pray for you, a Protestant? I’ve been around Jews all my life and they absolutely despise and loathe Protestants a lot more than the despise Catholics.

    • Replies: @Wyatt Pendleton
  124. @Rurik

    wouldn’t you want to slaughter some Palestinian children too if it meant you can force Jesus to come back and give you a thousand year boehner to rapture with in His company

    I’ll answer that in the way of the typical hasbara troll…

    “To ask the question is to answer it.”

    Now wasn’t dat profound? I wonder if that’ll get me a Nobel Peace Pwize. ;)

  125. stu piddy says:
    @CF

    She was underage, she did not give her consent, but was selected, chosen among many who had auditioned for the Mother of God or MOG as they called it….something like….that in Aramaic or Arab or whatever the hell those people over there speak.

    The thing your forgetting is IF you have immaculate sex with an underage person, male or female or with anybody of any age without their consent, it’s OK.

    And if I were Harvey’s lawyer …if I were Harvey’s Lawyer….I would say unto him, GO FORTH! and be not judged, for you are among the children of Israel and you can do whatever the fuck ya feel like doin’ cause that’s what Jesus did and look what happened to Him.

    Harvey has just as much a chance at being called the Savior in 1000 years as anybody.

    • Troll: renfro
  126. @Ben_C

    …but hey the Constitution can always be amended.

    Tho much more often ignored.

  127. I’m always a bit put off by Giraldi’s felicity for the brown people when his own group is being actively dispossessed. Before ’65, American values included things like a white supermajority in America and segregation. One wonders what sort of people he thinks the historic American nation is if he thinks their primary goal is securing the rights of various non-whites instead of taking our own side. He clearly is an anti-South African bigot too.

    Sure, a post-liberal rightist west would cease all support for Israel because they’re a foreign tribe; not because they’re giving a bunch of Arabs a hard time.

  128. @Harold Smith

    IOW, I can’t believe that a person in Trump’s position in life would seriously run for president when he did “just for the hell of it” or “just for a taste of power”. So which is it?

    He’s stupid and ignorant as Hell, so who knows.

    I’m betting he was just playing around, mouthing off and never thought he had a snowball’s chance in Hades. Then he got elected. I bet he was as surprised as anyone.

    It happened to Jesse Ventura who used to have a radio program where he mouthed off about government and decided to run just for the (bleep) of it, and I have no doubt that he shocked himself when he won.

  129. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Does that mean that God doesn’t protect the Christian Palestinians? Actually, he abandoned them in 1917.

    So Protestants are supposed to be pro Jew and anti Christian when there is a conflict? That’s what you seemed to say.

    Did you know that Palestine was always the stronghold of Christianity after the Arab conquest and the Jews drove the Christians out even more ferociously than they did the Muslims?

    Why would someone who claims to be a Christian support a Jewish take over if Christian property? Sirhan Sirhan and his family are Greek Orthodox Palestinian Christians.

    Their home and other property were confiscated, the father was fired from his job, a brother was killed when a Jewish bomb exploded on a busy street.

    When Sirhan was 4 years old Jewish soldiers appeared and gave them one hour to get out of their 10 room luxury home. They sought refuge in a monastery pilgrimage hostel and the Greek church eventually relocated them to S California. After watching a speech Robert Kennedy gave promising military help to Israel if he were elected president Sirhan killed Kennedy.
    That’s just one Christian family who had lived in Jerusalem for centuries and kept the Christian faith alive all those centuries of Muslim domination.

    How can a Christian possibly support what the Jews did to the Christians of Palestine, Russia and E Europe after they took over?

    How can a Christian possibly be pro Jewish when the Jewish bible totally and completely contradicts the lessons Christian bible?

    How can a Christian support the lie cheat, steal, hatred , violence ,sex and rapes the Jews bragged about in their bible?

    Read the book of Dinah and learn what the Jews do to the gullible idiots who think Jews are their allies

    • Replies: @ElitecommInc.
  130. muh Palestinians.

    The bottom line is that there will never be an anti Israel US President. Whoever comes after Trump will be pro Israel. Whoever comes after that will be pro Israel.

    Give up your obsession with the US turning against Israel because it will never happen. It is even less realistic than your dream of a US attack on Iran.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  131. Alden says:
    @stu piddy

    Unfortunately, too many people believe all that …. stuff.

  132. Seraphim says:
    @Jake

    Perfect summary of the ‘Cause of World Unrest’.
    Must be added that the disease of Anglo-Puritanism (wasps are venomous creatures) was implanted on American soil at a very early date: The Plymouth Colony/The Pilgrim Fathers (1620), Massachusetts Bay Colony – ‘the city upon a hill’ (1630). They specifically viewed themselves as the ‘New Israel’ and the native Indians as the ‘new Canaanites’ to be exterminated in the America’s ‘Promised Land’.

    • Replies: @Ace
  133. Rich says:
    @jacques sheete

    More Muslims have immigrated into the US since 9-11 than over the entire rest of US history. Anyone who whispers something negative about Islam is immediately disowned by his political party and tormented by the Press. Just to imply that Obama was a Muslim was to completely discredit oneself in the mainstream media. I know they made a couple TV shows where evil government agents and secret prep school neo-Nazis went after Muslims, but that was fiction.

    I don’t understand why so many people live within a fantasy world in their own heads, instead of in the real world. It’s very odd, but becoming more normal all the time.

  134. Alden says:
    @DESERT FOX

    The motive for Sirhan Sirhan’s killing RFK was revenge for RFK’s promise to Jews that if elected president he would send more planes and armaments to Israel.

    RFK was scum. He worked for Senator McCarthy in the 1950s and marched with Cesear Chavez in the 1960s. RFK supported the 1968 affirmative action law. RFK was as much an enemy of Whites as was his brother Ted and Senator Hart and Congress critter Cueller.

    Had RFK been elected he would have done exactly what he was ordered to by the Jews he begged to donate to his campaign.
    The son? Too bad, but flying small planes in fog is dangerous.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Anonymous
  135. biz says:
    @jacques sheete

    I doubt it is a mistake because it hasn’t been corrected. And it isn’t minor. These constant lies are how discussion around Israel becomes so unhinged.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  136. Alden says:
    @EliteComminc.

    The apostles were heretics hated by the Jews. The Jewish rabbis murdered St Stephen the first Christian bishop of Jerusalem. Paul was the enforcer against the apostles and their fellow heretics.

    How did the Jewish and Christian bibles get co mingled anyway ? Christianity is more Zoroastrianism, Mithraism and the Egyptian old religion than Judaism It has absolutely nothing in common with Judaism, nothing.

    The essence of the Jewish bible is kill everybody who is not Jewish. The essence of Christianity is love and help everybody and don’t kill anyone.

    St Peter at the gates of heaven with his account books is the same person as the Egyptian god at the gates of heaven with his scales.

    Why don’t devoteees of the Hebrew bible just convert to Judaism? Maybe because the services aren’t free and Jews have to pay thousands of dollars a year to attend services?

    • Replies: @edNels
  137. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Corporate U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives that are Israel Dual Citizens.

    It’s time for them to go. To Israel, to jail or to hell I don’t care where.

    https://govbanknotes.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/us-senators-and-us-representatives-that-are-israel-dual-citizens/

    • Replies: @anon
  138. @Alden

    Why didn’t the early Christians just dump the porn, violence lying stealing and cheating part of the Bible?

    Because if the Bible only reported the good parts of human beings in their interaction with God and each other everyone would know it was a staged work of fiction. Humans are all sorts of messed up and honest reporting tells the truth–the good, the bad and the ugly–about them all.

  139. Alden says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Does anyone know what rapture is? I got turned off by the Bible in second grade when we got to the Book of Dinah.
    Not that I liked it before Dinah with all those crazy old coots hallucinating about another crazy old coot up
    In the sky.

  140. Alden says:

    I read the Los Angeles Jewish Journal every week and other Jewish publications too.

    The jews are not one bit, not one tiny bit grateful for Trump’s plans to move the embassy to Jerusalem. And what Jews think of fundamentalist Christians is that they are even more the enemy of Jews than the Palestinians.

    The fundamentalists should really start subscribing to Jewish publications and getting to know Jews.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @ElitecommInc.
  141. @anon

    Let me put it this way. Trump had not really wide selection to pick from.
    There were no pikes in the swamp. Only frogs who jump into swamp to hide when dear comes to drink.
    He could not pick Christie because of the Bridge affair and God knows for what else.
    Chris is the one who really dislikes Democrats. He would have been constantly under attack by Democrats. Pence and Ryan are frogs and I am pretty sure that they know their own limitations.
    In my opinion Trump has really guts, I am only curious when this charade of this Russian collusion will end, if Trump will embark on retributions.

  142. Rurik says:
    @Greasy William

    Give up your obsession with the US turning against Israel because it will never happen.

    it already has

    we’re into one year on in the Trump administration, and already there is no recognition of the Golan Heights!

    Iran has not been bombed

    ISIS has been routed

    Assad is still in power

    Putin is still a player

    Turkey is aligning with Russia

    Austria elected a young Hitler

    Hungary is thumbing its nose at Soros

    Ukraine has not been able to take Donbas

    The Kurdish state is DOA

    and what has Trump done about any of this?

    nothing!

    that’s what!

    he may as well be Hitler himself for all his handwringing when it comes to protecting Israel and bombing Damascus and Tehran!

  143. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Shouting Thomas

    Take my advice. It’s good advice.

    What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. That is the entire law; all the rest is commentary.

  144. I hope God takes such a love to Pence, that he calls him home. Soon.

  145. @Alden

    There are a lot of questions here that are not pertinent to my comments as they don’t exclude anyone. but i am going to respond to each question. I will do my best to keep them in order.

    1. No. I do not believe nor have I been taught by scripture or anyone that life’s troubles are a sign of being abandoned by Christ – even when it feel like it and everything about one’s life is a total mess whether by actions of self others or random acts of life.

    2. No. And not at all. In my understanding the faith of Christians supersedes that of any other faith, by virtue of christ. An my position would be just the opposite — in times of trouble, it’s clear christ beckons for increased faith and he will provide the same. in fact, my comments reflect the opposite. Christ calls one to a life beyond judaism and exceedingly richer in relation to god.

    3. my position is clearly that Christians allegiance is to Christ. it’s not to a plot of land, nor state, nor polity, But belief in christ does not in any manner partaking in land ownership, state governance, politics, or any of the legal and societal norms — until they conflict with christ and his mission of giving the good news.

    4. Jews were the first persecutors of christians. And more than likely instigators of roman persecutions as normally Rome embraced and or tolerated myriad faith practices. It is accurate that muslim tolerance was practiced in Palestine for other people of other faiths.

    5. I can only rest where I came in. I think the evidence is clear that the jewish occupation of Palestine was ill advised, ethically questionable and beyond reasoned justice — the entire process loaded with acts of terror, and mayhem is hard to justify, in my view. The UN completely mishandled the entire affair. And i would agree that Jews should have been expected to pay a fair market price for the property they sought, and in many cases took — tantamount to stealing. And i don’t think it can be condoned and it is not reflected of any scriptural admonition old or new in my view. Condemning such practice or expressing criticism for the same does not mean one cannot be supportive of the nation or even have affinity for the same. But i would not argue that Israel should be expected to behave in accordance with the international rules the rest live by. And nothing in scripture would suggest otherwise, in my view. I am not sure that people of faith in the christian community support what you suggest.

    6. The Sirhan family — I think this scenario as proferred is answered in number 5.

    7. Answered in number 5.

    8. It doesn’t. And context matters. And I would agree that context can be tricky. Furthermore, I think we may disagree as what is understood as being pro-Jewish. I recognize the state of Israel, and i think she has a right to exist. There are plenty of caveats to that position, in-particular as it relates to the old testament expectations of what it means to be a “child of abraham”.

    9. I don’t know any christians who support those behaviors or activities. And I am not aware that the bible celebrates, supports or advocates any of the referenced. Always some reference i am unfamiliar with, but I would need some examples of what you request.

    10. I am unfamiliar with the book you note. So I opened my scripture to be sure. And as I thought, that is not a book in the old testament. It could be you mean Daniel. I leave room open for a text in scripture I may have missed.But Dinah a reference I am unfamiliar with.

    • Replies: @Alden
  146. @jacques sheete

    “He’s stupid and ignorant as Hell…”

    I can’t argue with that.

    “…so who knows.”

    As per my reasoning above, I think I know. I’ve at least proffered an argument.

    “I’m betting he was just playing around, mouthing off and never thought he had a snowball’s chance in Hades. Then he got elected. I bet he was as surprised as anyone.”

    Or so goes the “official story” of the Trump campaign, IIRC, which seems like pure BS to me.

    Trump calculatingly pushed all the right buttons; NATO’s obsolete; gave Richard Gage an audience, let’s investigate 9/11; let’s get out of Afghanistan; let’s cooperate with Russia; let’s fight ISIS; let’s quit the nation building; let’s use diplomacy; called out the lying mass media, etc. He touched on basically every single thing that the people were sick and tired of.

    He placed himself squarely at odds with the “deep state” (while Clinton impliedly promised a swift WW3). If he was sincere and known to be sincere, he would’ve been putting himself and his family at great risk, no?

    And then he reneged on basically all of it. The lying bastard had a mandate from the people to improve relations with Russia, yet that was the first thing he reversed on. Why?

    You’ll never convince me that the backstabbing wasn’t calculated. The cynical, lying bastard apparently had a plan to invade Syria and set up illegal military bases before Russia could figure out what was going on and who was in charge.

    With his name recognition, his money, and his America first rhetoric, he didn’t need the jews to win the election. He didn’t have to reverse himself on everything of importance.

    Trump ran for president to protect the jewish supremacists that he works for and to advance or at least preserve their agenda.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  147. JohnS says:

    Scofield was a shady midwestern lawyer who led a notorious life before he “found Jesus”. His work on the “reference Bible” was sponsored by wealthy Zionists in New York including Samuel Untermyer and fellow members of the Lotus Club.

    See this Counterpunch article:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/the-origins-of-the-israel-lobby-in-the-us/

    Also see “The Incredible Scofield and His Book”, by Joseph M. Canfield.

    • Replies: @ElitecommInc.
  148. Ace says:
    @Jake

    I have read a small amount about Puritanism but do not recall its ever being characterized as a Judaizing heresy.

    One author wrote that they should more properly be characterized as “sticklers” in that they chose to eliminate from all church practice those things for which there was no scriptural basis, such as vestments, music, stained glass, and the bishopric. The Anglicans, however, thought any practice should be allowed so long as it was not prohibited by scripture. The Puritans tried to work with the Anglicans in contrast to the Pilgrims who rejected the CoE entirely.

    The Massachusetts Bay Colony soon had to deal with the Antinomian Controversy in which Ann Hutchinson’s faction took the position that if you were of the select the Holy Spirit dwelled in you and no earthly works were needed to evidence one’s exalted status. This was opposed by Winthrop and the rest of the colony’s religious establishment so, in the early days here, antinomianism was infra dig and the prevailing Puritans, far from crushing their opponents, hardly laid a finger on them. Hutchinson was merely banished.

    Nor did I run across anything that evidenced a Puritan desire to rule the world. Rather they wanted merely to be an example to the world. Winthrop encouraged people without a “testimony” to go elsewhere. The Massachusetts Puritans did not have imperial ambitions to my knowledge.

    I also ran across nothing that suggests Puritans were pro-Jewish. But possibly here too my knowledge is incomplete.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Alden
  149. Ace says:
    @Seraphim

    I wonder if you have correctly characterized the views of the MBC Puritans. They did face hostile Indians but also encountered friendlies and combined with them against the hostile ones. I’m not aware that they turned on their former allies and extirminated them (or anyone else). They were probably studying hard to get into Harvard.

  150. @JohnS

    I will have to take Mr Giraldi’s word on the Schofield reference. But there are hundreds of reference Bible’s and more bibles that all have reference material in them as well as concordances –

    And nearly all have the references to the rapture and end times and the place that Israel holds in that context. I carry a Strong’s concordance and a Smith’s bible dictionary. I would not be surprised if many on this site gave other but similar references.

    • Replies: @Jake
  151. @Rurik

    Can Trump simply fire Pence after winning re-election? Pick a nationalist patriot in his place as VP, someone somewhat younger who can take over credibly if Trump dies during his second term.

    At Trump’s age, it’s a real risk to have anyone as your number two whom you don’t actually want in the top job.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  152. llloyd says: • Website

    The Palestinian “refugee camps” are residential cities and have been so some years after their displacement. Yes I know Israel Government and most of its Jewish citizens have acted monstrously to them. But this should be a proper record.

  153. @adude

    Absurd and destructive advice from Matthew if we are talking about true civilizational or life-and-death enemies. If interpreted literally, it’s one of the central morally indefensible aspects of Christianity.

    It would be more defensible advice, perhaps, if by “enemies” he meant people of our own civilization and ethos who are merely rivals who are unfair or meanspirited — NOT people who are trying to kill, rape, rob, enslave, oppress, or intimidate us and our families / friends / neighbors.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  154. renfro says:
    @Alden

    The fundamentalists should really start subscribing to Jewish publications and getting to know Jews.

    Yes..lol

    The only way the Jews will ever be satisfied is for all of the world’s non Jews to give them everything we own and then kill ourselves off.

    And some even then would be furious and say we killed ourselves just so the Jews wouldn’t have anyone to blame for their behavior and to make all the Jew’s problems look like their own fault.

  155. Sparkon says:
    @Alden

    What? RFK was “scum” because he worked for Joe McCarthy? Expand on that, please.

    Since Sirhan approached RFK from the front, and never got closer to Kennedy than three feet, he must have been shooting boomerang bullets with a plastic man stretch-o-matic pistol to shoot Bobby behind the ear from 1″ distance, as was reported by L.A. coroner Noguchi. There were more wounds and bullet holes than the patsy’s pistol had bullets. Analysis of a tape reports 13 shots.

    Standing behind RFK was a Lockheed employee moonlighting as a security guard Thane Eugene Cesar. Cesar admitted to owning a .22 pistol, the same caliber as the one that inflicted RFK’s fatal wounds, but said he had sold it 3 months before the assassination. Researchers tracked down the pistol’s owner, who showed the receipt dated three months after the assassination. After receiving a call from L.A. cops about the pistol, his house was burglarized, and the pistol was stolen.

    SF Gate reports:

    After Los Angeles police found his diary, in which he had written, “RFK must die,” investigators concluded that he was angry about Kennedy’s support for Israel

    – Sirhan fired his .22-caliber revolver from a few feet in front of Kennedy, according to police, yet Los Angeles County coroner Thomas Noguchi reported that the fatal shot was fired less than one inch from Kennedy’s head, behind his right ear.

    Of the four shots fired at Kennedy, all came from the rear. None of this was raised at Sirhan’s trial because his defense was based on the theory that he suffered from “diminished capacity” rather than on any challenge of prosecutors’ evidence.

    – Sirhan’s revolver held eight rounds; a radio reporter’s tape recording of the shooting has sounds of what one audio expert describes as 13 shots.

    – Several witnesses saw a security guard just behind Kennedy draw his revolver, and one reported seeing him fire it.

    – Over the years, Sirhan has told investigators who interviewed him in prison that he was in a hypnotic trance during the shooting and can’t remember it at all. He said he could not remember writing, “RFK must die.”
    [...]
    Then there was the mystery of the woman in the polka dot dress. According to witness Sandra Serrano, the woman fled from the hotel kitchen with an unidentified man, shouting, “We shot him, we shot him.” When a bystander asked who got shot, the woman said, “We shot Kennedy.” Other witnesses reported seeing the woman, though it is not clear whether they heard the comment.

    In a new film about the assassination, “RFK Must Die,” Irish documentary maker Shane O’Sullivan asked Serrano about what happened later. She said Los Angeles police spent hours trying to convince her she was wrong in what she saw, and she finally gave in. Forty years later, however, she told O’Sullivan that her original version was correct.

    In fact, the iconic polka dot dress is also something fixed in the mind of Sirhan himself.

    William Turner, a retired FBI agent who wrote a book about the case, says he interviewed Sirhan in prison in 1975.

    “He told me, ‘I don’t remember anything after the woman in the polka dot dress asked me for coffee, and heavy on the cream and sugar,’ ” said Turner, who lives in San Rafael. “He said he had amnesia from that time until he was overpowered in the pantry after the shots were fired. He said, ‘I must have done it, but I don’t remember.’ ”

    (my edits for brevity)

    http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/40-years-after-RFK-s-death-questions-linger-3281692.php

    • Replies: @Alden
  156. @Harold Smith

    Trump ran for president to protect the jewish supremacists that he works for and to advance or at least preserve their agenda.

    OK. You win.

    Except he may not actually work for them. He just drops his shorts and bends over on command. ;)

  157. @Rich

    None of that negates what I said.

    Every time there’s been a false flag event, it’s nearly always blamed on Muslims.

    It’s always “the Muzzies dun this” and “the Muzzies dunnat” or “dem Muzzies are fanatics…blah blah blah…”

    I don’t understand why so many people live within a fantasy world in their own heads, instead of in the real world. It’s very odd, but becoming more normal all the time.

    I as well don’t understand why so many people live within a fantasy world in their own heads, instead of in the real world. It’s very odd, but becoming more normal all the time.

    Several of the biggest fantasies are, for example, that Jews are the eternal victims, that 6 million Jews were murdered in “the” holocaust, that Gawd granted Palestine to the state of Israel, that the state of Israel is a Jewish state, and that Israel is a friend of the US.

    • Replies: @Rich
  158. @biz

    These constant lies are how discussion around Israel becomes so unhinged.

    These constant lies are how Israel became established. The whole deal regarding Zionism and the gangster state is a fraud from the start.

    • Replies: @biz
  159. Phil, I’m a true believer myself, as you put it. However I cannot understand why any true evangelical would eagerly anticipate Armageddon, or seek to hasten it. Jesus’ command was to spread the Gospel to the whole world, out of God’s love for humanity, that none might perish. Therefore, finding joy in the destruction and loss of hope for literally billions of other people cannot be a mark of the true follower of Jesus. Indeed, we are warned, “What does the Day of the Lord have to do with you?” echoing the fallacy and arrogance to claim by human agency what is in God’s hands alone. Moreover, those who conflate actual warmaking with following Christ are guilty of creating their own idolatrous and false “War Jesus.” As you point out, Jesus counseled doing good in return for evil, rather than piling up transgressions on top of each other, and acting in love not only for neighbors, tough enough, but in regards to enemies. So a whole lot more taking scripture seriously would not be amiss for those who call themselves Christian, instead of Just Make War Theories.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @ElitecommInc.
    , @RobinG
  160. renfro says:

    More swamp creatures brought in by Trump….its all in the family.

    Trump Pick for Chile Ambassador Entwined in Kushner Family Deals

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-29/trump-pick-for-chile-ambassador-entwined-in-kushner-family-deals

    ‎January‎ ‎29‎, ‎2018‎ ‎4‎:‎00‎ ‎AM

    [MORE]

    When the White House nominated a new ambassador to Chile this month, it touted his role running his father’s food-importing business. Not mentioned: his deep financial ties to the family of Jared Kushner.
    Andrew Gellert is president of Gellert Global Group and the son of George Gellert, a close friend of Jared’s father, Charles Kushner. The older men have done handshake deals for decades, creating a deep web of financial connections between their family companies in real estate, media and banking.
    Most prominent of their shared interests is 666 Fifth Avenue, the heavily indebted Manhattan office tower that has been the subject of a global hunt for investors. When Jared Kushner purchased the Observer newspaper, some of the funds were from the Gellerts. At a New Jersey bank in which both families own stakes, Andrew Gellert sits on the board with Jared Kushner’s brother-in-law, David Orbach.
    A White House spokesman for Jared Kushner didn’t respond to questions about Kushner’s relationship with Gellert.

    Gellert, 50, married and the father of three, is no stranger to Chile, having helped his company expand into exporting nuts and dried fruits from there. But he has no diplomatic experience and speaks only basic Spanish.
    Ambassadorships have long been a way to repay big campaign donors, although they’re less commonly given to business associates. Despite having contributed to Hillary Clinton in 2003, Andrew’s father was an early backer of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, giving $10,000 to the Make America Great Again political action committee two months after Trump announced he was running, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
    After Charles Kushner was convicted of witness tampering, illegal campaign contributions and tax evasion in 2005, Gellert often co-guaranteed loans for properties with Seryl Kushner, Charles’s wife.
    666 Fifth Avenue
    Their biggest real estate deal has recently encountered problems. Kushner Cos. owns 50.5 percent of 666 Fifth Avenue, and the Gellerts’ share of that portion is substantial, according to one person familiar with the deal. The property is, losing money and a $1.2 billion mortgage is due in February 2019.
    Kushner Cos. had favored knocking down the 41-story tower and building one twice as tall in its place. The company searched for investors in China, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Israel, France and South Korea. No takers have been announced. Their partner in the building, Vornado Realty Trust, has said the plan isn’t feasible.
    The Gellerts have done business in Chile since at least 1999, when they purchased J.F. Braun & Sons and Camerican International from ConAgra Inc. The two subsidiaries import raisins and dried cranberries, as well as canned and frozen artichokes, asparagus and celery. In 2008, it formed Andes Quality SA with Australia’s Agracom. This company processes raisins in a facility north of Santiago. In 2016, Gellert Group purchased KHI International Trade, a food-sourcing company with a Chilean office.
    Andrew Gellert won’t be Kushner’s first Chilean link. The home Jared and his wife, Ivanka Trump, are renting in Washington, D.C., is owned by Andrónico Luksic, a powerful Chilean mining billionaire who was embroiled in a legal battle with the U.S. government over permits to explore for copper in Minnesota.
    The couple admired the six-bedroom home in the tony Kalorama neighborhood at the same time that Luksic was looking for property there in December 2016. A real estate agent put the deal together, and the Kushners quickly became his tenants, according to a Wall Street Journal article last March.
    Last month, the Trump administration approved the permits for Luksic’s company that the Obama administration had withheld.
    In Chile, the Luksic family’s sprawling conglomerate operates in many of the same businesses as the Gellert Group, including food processing and transportation. Andrónico Luksic, however, has never met a member of the Kushner or Gellert families, according to a person with knowledge of his affairs.

  161. Seraphim says:
    @Ace

    @nothing that suggests Puritans were pro-Jewish

    FYI:

    PURITANS WERE MORE JEWISH THAN PROTESTANTS, by Hugh Fogelman
    @http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/puritansweremorejewishthanprotestants.html

    [MORE]

    “the first settlers in New England called themselves “Christian Israel.” Comparison of the Puritan leaders with the great leaders of ancient Israel—especially Moses and Joshua—were common. So the names of Daniel, Jonathan, Esther, Enoch, Ezra, Rachel and a host of others were in constant use among the Puritans. Interestingly enough, there was a conspicuous absence of the names of Christian saints. Names of cities, towns and settlements likewise derived from Hebraic sources. This widespread use of biblical names, however, was not confined to the naming of offspring, cities and towns – names of many biblical heights were eventually bestowed upon the great mountains of America. Mount Carmel and Mount Horeb, home of the Prophets, were popular names, as was Mount Nebo, the final resting place of Moses. Names like Mount Ephraim, Mount Gilead, Mount Hermon, Mount Moriah, Mount Pisgah, were all popular as well. Some mountains in the New World were even called Mt. Sinai, Mount Zion and Mount Olive. .
    Puritan obsession with the Bible led them to try and incorporate many aspects of the Jewish commandments into their lifestyle based on their literal interpretation of Hebraic laws. One of the most significant was the concept of the Sabbath as a day of rest and meditation. Puritan Sabbath observance began at sundown and no work of any kind, even household chores, was allowed for the next 24-hours. Sabbath observance was strictly monitored by local officials.
    In summary: The majority of the earliest settlers were Puritans from England. Unlike their cousins back home, these American Puritans strongly identified with both the historical traditions and customs of the ancient Hebrews of the Old Testament. They viewed their emigration from England as a virtual re-enactment of the Jewish exodus from Egypt: England was Egypt, the English king was Pharaoh, the Atlantic Ocean their Red Sea, America was the Land of Israel, and the Indians were the ancient Canaanites. They were the new Israelites, entering into a new covenant with God in a new Promised Land.
    These settlers found themselves in a New World which had no existing laws or govern-ment. Their first task, therefore, was to create a legal framework for their communities and the first place they looked for guidance was the Hebrew Bible”.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Ace
  162. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    QUOTE: [RFK's] son? Too bad, but flying small planes in fog is dangerous.

    There was absolutely NO fog.

    Also, JFK Jr. was JFK’s son, RFK’s and Ted’s nephew. He met his untimely demise when his Senate ambitions got in the way of Hellary’s path to the coronation.

    Many people who got in the way of Hellary and Bill political schemes and financial crimes ended up mysteriously dying in countless small plane crashes. (Sometimes big crashes, too – Ron Brown, Seal Team 6.)

    Somehow, the politicized and union-controlled National Transportation Safety Board never found anything suspicious about the wake of aircraft disasters following the Clintons.

    • Replies: @Alden
  163. H. S. says:

    That’s ridiculous: ” … North Korea’s “reckless pursuit” of nuclear technology ”

    = Billions spent for WAR again, not for rebuilding America.

    Trump: US must modernize & rebuild its nuclear arsenal to deter any aggression

    Source: https://www.rt.com/usa/417448-trump-nuclear-arsenal-state-union/

  164. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    I agree. Every single last one of them needs to go, 13 Senators and 27 House members. Richard Blumenthal, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Al Franken, Adam Schiff, DWS, Barney Frank, Gabriel Gifford, Anthony Weiner, all on the list. Some are gone thankfully. Notice they are all Democrats except Eric Cantor, thankfully he’s gone.

    Can you imagine if Bernie Sanders had gone on to become president? We could’ve had an Israeli citizen as president! How could this even be allowed?

  165. @Fran Macadam

    My comments are not meant in support of the idea. But for many evangelicals, perhaps all, as would make sense,There is a longing for Christ and a longing to to be out of this world. It is not intended to be suicidal. But a longing as one might have as bride and groom.

    Many Christians believe they can and should hasten the day — not for Armageddon but what is to follow — and one of the debates is whether christians will be present during the tribulation and ultimate war to come. but it is not about the destruction, it’s the end.

    As I have noted, I don’t see much in the scripture that supports the advance, but people believe it.

  166. @Alden

    some corrections: any errors were not deliberate

    3. my position is clearly that Christian allegiance is to Christ. it’s not to a plot of land, nor state, nor polity, But belief in christ does not in any manner preclude or prevent partaking in land ownership, state governance, politics, or any of the legal and societal norms of the community in which they reside — until they conflict with christ and his mission of giving the good news.

    5. I can only rest where I came in. I think the evidence is clear that the jewish method of occupying Palestine was ill advised, ethically questionable and beyond reasoned justice — the entire process loaded with acts of terror, and mayhem is hard to justify, in my view. The UN completely mishandled the entire affair. And I would agree that Jews should have been expected to pay a fair market price for the property they sought, and in many cases took — tantamount to stealing. And I don’t think it can be condoned and it is not reflected of any scriptural admonition old or new in my view. Condemning such practice or expressing criticism for the same does not mean one cannot be supportive of the nation or even have affinity for the same. But I would argue that Israel should be expected to behave in accordance with the international rules the rest live by. And nothing in scripture would suggest otherwise, in my view. I am not sure that people of faith in the christian community support what you suggest.

    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @Alden
  167. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The odd thing about people like Pence is that they stick like glue to their Scofield Reference Bibles but apparently rarely venture into the New Testament part with its talk of compassion and forgiveness. They much prefer the fire and brimstone in the Jewish part with Joshua smiting and Philistines (Palestines?) falling left and right.

    That is the entire problem with Judaism. They only embrace the blood thirsty Old Testament where God went around smiting everybody who stood in the Jews’ way, killing their first born sons etc. But they do not embrace the New Testament where Jesus came for our salvation and loved all mankind. There is only hate and revenge in the Jews’ hearts, no love, just like in the OT. Protestants embrace the NT and embrace the love.

  168. RobinG says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Tom DeLay, Pastor John Hagee: whack jobs along the line of elitecomminc. Don’t laugh too hard.

    Rapture Ready: The Christians United for Israel Tour

    • Replies: @L.K
  169. @Alden

    You don’t mean the book of Dinah. You mean the story of Dinah in Genesis. I don’t know any christians who condone rape and none who don’t recognize Jacob’s failure to protect her.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
    , @Alden
    , @Alden
  170. chris says:
    @Weaver1

    Take Korea: Peace is breaking out. Now, maybe Trump didn’t want peace, but it’s happening

    No such thing is happening. They’ve made peace only so we can have our moment of glory at the Olympics. This is the most cynical point of all, as soon as they’re over, we’re right back to where we were, namely that ‘America’ cannot live with anyone not bending over for us; you notice, there are no negotiations going on right now!

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  171. It seems that the top donors to both parties are fanatical Zionists and generally liberal. I don’t understand why there are no wealthy right-wingers willing to counter-balance the others. When I was a kid in the 1950s-60s there were still right-wing zillionaires: H.L. Hunt, Robert Welch, Adolf Coors, Henry Luce, the Mellons, Walt Disney, the Mars family among others. Nowadays all the wealthiest people are lefties on everything that doesn’t concern their personal finances. Even so, the amounts they contribute could be matched by an aggregate of not-quite-as-wealthy conservatives.
    The current abasement before Israel is just one aspect of the rule that Jews must be pleased or at least placated. A Republican cannot placate them with pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-gun, anti-cop, pro-immigration policies, so fanatical Zionism is all that’s left to him. The late Jack Kemp, who liked to refer to himself as Yitzhak Kemp, was once told by members of a Jewish congregation that Jewish favor could not be had for any amount of support for Israel in the absence of support for abortion rights and other social causes favored by Jews. But that doesn’t stop Republicans from trying. And of course Trump, so hated and battered by the Jewish power centers, must work extra hard to gain some measure of toleration.
    The goal for the right must now be to diminish the role played by campaign finances while working to increase campaign funding by average people. The success of the Sanders campaign in crowdfunding is a good sign.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @polskijoe
  172. @EliteComminc.

    What happens to the Jews who have died before the rapture? Do they get a pass if the majority of Jews follow Jesus?

  173. @chris

    Time is on Kim’s side. He just needs to keep us from toppling him long enough to get his nukes in tune. But he might be sincere about wanting to coexist with the south. The south has much more population and wealth and even if America deserted them, Japan and China don’t want to see Kim expand. As for America, our chief concern is that North Korea could sell arms to Iran thereby threatening Israel. I’ve become totally cynical about this. Everything revolves around Israel and nobody dares to say so.

  174. Alden says:
    @EliteComminc.

    It’s called the book of Dinah and she wasn’t raped and her father murdered the men of the goy tribe when they were comatose.

    The Hebrew bible is full of lies cheating theft and muster. Kill everybody but we Jews is the whole point of it.

  175. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    Sorry, It was a typo. President Kennedy’s son flew the plane into the ocean.

  176. Alden says:
    @Seraphim

    The Plymouth brotherhood known in the United States as the Pilgrims absolutely did not believe that Jesus was God.

    Both John Knox and John Calvin loudly proclaimed that “ there is but one God and that is the God of Israel’

    If you believe that both Jesus and god the father are God, you are a Christian. If you believe that the only God is the God of Israel you are not a Christian.

    Therefore, puritans were not Christians.

  177. @Quartermaster

    Wikipedia is wrong as usual.

    Wikipedia is hardly the only source on Darby. He’s a well-known theologian who inspired the Scofield Reference Bible. More than one biography has been written about him.

    All of the concept of dispensationalism were around long before Darby.

    Perhaps, but not the sort of dispensationalism that Darby preached. Traditionally, Christian theologians (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and most other Protestant sects) taught that there were two dispensations: the Old Testament and the New. In other words, for them, ‘dispensation’ was roughly synonymous with ‘Testament’. Darby’s version, however, was a much more elaborate set-up involving no less than seven distinct dispensations–a very different animal, in other words.

    All are found in scripture and scripture itself is obviously dispensational.

    I am not a Christian theologian personally, so I don’t have a position on whether or not the Bible is inherently dispensational. To the extent that it is, see above. I was merely pointing out that–like so many other hot-button issues–the Bible never overtly raises the issue. It’s all a matter of theological interpretation.

    Find out what the term means and then read the Bible for yourself.

    I’ve read it three times in its entirety, and have consulted specific passages on numerous occasions. Again, I don’t claim to be a professional theologian. I just wanted to point out that I never saw mention of any Rapture in a Darbyite context.

    The idea that Dispensationalists think everything in Scripture is to be taken literally is both false and ignorant.

    Maybe Dispensationalists don’t, but Biblical literalists do believe that the Bible is to be interpreted literally–hence their name. I was just pointing out that the two positions are not readily compatible.

    Instead of ignorantly raving, you need to put your nose in scripture yourself, instead of regurgitating someone else’s nonsense.

    You might consider taking your own advice.

    • Replies: @Alden
  178. Alden says:
    @Chris Mallory

    Shouldn’t it be never be alone with a woman not his wife? I mean, it’s hard to have sex while eating, although it’s easy to have a lot of foreplay and messing around while eating.

    School districts used to tell male teachers to never be with one or two girls, but always with three or more so as to avoid false accusations.

  179. polskijoe says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    the Dispensationalist and Rapture lunatics
    come in two camps.. one of them think Jews do not need to convert, they will all be saved.
    the other thinks they will convert and the rest not. (im quite sure on this).

    • Replies: @Alden
  180. @Harold Smith

    That was always one of the things that most unnerved me about Trump from the start: what, exactly, motivated him to run? (The other thing about him that bothered me was his overweening Zionism.) The idea that he was some kind of plant certainly did occur to me, but the MSM didn’t treat him the way they usually treat ‘The Chosen One’. Compare him with the treatment the MSM gave that other ‘outside, nontradional’ candidate, Emmanuel Macron.

    So what did motivate Trump? Ego? Vainglory? Some burning conviction somewhere? I still don’t know. One way or the other, though, I’m pretty sure that MAGA is dead.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  181. edNels says:
    @Alden

    How did the Jewish and Christian bibles get co mingled anyway ? Christianity is more Zoroastrianism, Mithraism and the Egyptian old religion than Judaism It has absolutely nothing in common with Judaism, nothing.

    That’s pretty good question! How do the fake Christians get away with that? There is a lot of BS and fake history out there. But Christ must be from better background it figures.

  182. polskijoe says:
    @Jake

    Apparently there were two camps among the Protestants.
    The Puritans like Cromwell who were quite fanatical. They wanted to change to fight and change the agenda of all other Christians.
    and the second being Pilgrims who were separatists, who thought other Christian groups cant be changed.

    Regardless there were certainly some philosemites among some of the early Protestants.
    After the Balfour Declaration, the WASP elites were working with or following the Jewish or Zionist policies

  183. Alden says:
    @ElitecommInc.

    I don’t mean the book of Daniel. I mean Dinah whose father murdered an entire tribe of goyim while the men were comatose.

    Even google and Wikipedia call the story the book of Dinah.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  184. Alden says:
    @Ace

    The puritans didn’t believe that Jesus is God but that the Jewish god is the only god. If they didn’t believe that Jesus is god they weren’t Christians.

    • Replies: @Ace
    , @MEexpert
  185. Alden says:
    @Sparkon

    Sorry sorry, I know the theories that Sirhan didn’t kill Robert Kennedy. They may very well be true. But Robert was scum because he became very very radical at the end. Switching from McCarthy to Chavez just proves he had no principles just jumped on the latest crusades.

    Whether Sirhan killed Robert or not, what happened to his family was a motive for killing an Israeli supporting politician. He was senator from New York and only politicians controlled by Israel and Jews get elected in New York.

    Robert Kennedy favored affirmative action, school bussing and blacks and Hispanics over Whites. That is scum and so is every anti White politician in the country.

    I don’t care who killed Robert Kennedy or why. He was just another anti White liberal democrat.

  186. Alden says:
    @jack daniels

    The old right wing millionaires are as anti White as the liberals are. The right wing, like they left wing has a vision of a nation of docile brown slaves instead of well paid Whites working in safe conditions.

    That’s what it’s all about, exterminating Whites with affirmative action.

    • Replies: @Jake
  187. Alden says:

    There was only a Jewish kingdom in Palestine for about 300 years. Here’s the timeline claimed in their very own book of fables myths and fairy tales.

    1100 BC. Wandering around the desert

    1050 BC conquest of Canaan genocide of canaanites King David

    1000 to 721 BC a Jewish state of some sort.

    721 BC Assyrian conquest end of the Jewish state

    500s BC conquest of the area by Babylonia.

    325 BC conquest of the area by Greece

    50BC conquest of the area by Rome.

    325 AD Roman Empire splits in 2 parts the area comes under the jurisdiction of the eastern Roman Empire known as Byzantium.

    650 AD conquest by Arab Muslims

    1100 AD conquest by Turkish Muslims

    1917 AD conquest by Britain

    1948 AD conquest by socialist Russian Jews

    Less than 300 years 3,000 years ago is the most bogus justification for a conquest in the history of the earth.

    • Replies: @KA
  188. Alden says:
    @EliteComminc.

    Jacob sent her out to seduce the son of the goyim tribe sheik. He ordered her to go to the well unveiled and inflame the guy.
    The well was what the Jews wanted. Getting the well and the rest of the territory was the whole purpose of jacob’s ordering her to seduce the guy by going unveiled to the well.

    It’s just another myth, wishful thinking on the part of the Jews but it illustrates their thinking and the way they operate.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  189. polskijoe says:
    @jack daniels

    Robert Welch. Ah yes the Birch Society guy. He was antiCommunist.
    But also a 32 degree Freemason according to Mullins. And Buckley didnt like him.

    Remember the Rockefellers had a so called right wing version of the party, and Nelson was connected to JBS.

    Apparently Alex Jones is JBS by some sources.

  190. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @stu piddy

    Man, what are you smoking? I want some!

    • Replies: @Alden
  191. @jacques sheete

    ” He’s stupid and ignorant as hell” : DT.

    Someone located at your mental niveau is simply not qualified to judge and determine DT’s or anyone else’s intelligence status, you yourself being a blabber-mouth fucking nitwit.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro jazzmusician.

  192. Jake says:
    @DaveE

    Your last sentence makes my point. All Anglophone Evangelicalism is because of Anglo-Saxon Puritanism, which is the Judaizing heresy from which WASP culture crystalizes.

    The ultimate, most perfect, WASP epitome, Oliver Cromwell, made alliance with Jews, granting Jews special rights and privileges denied to the vast, vast majority of Christians native to the British Isles, and he did so specifically to get Jewish money to wage war – even wear stated to be about something akin to genocide, against virtually all non-WASPs within range of London.

    That pattern of what WASP culture is and will do remains.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @DaveE
  193. Seraphim says:
    @Alden

    You hit the nail on the head.

  194. Jake says:
    @Alden

    “The old right wing millionaires are as anti White as the liberals are.”

    Correct. That is because WASP culture springs from the Judaizing heresy Anglo-Saxon Puritanism.

    When Oliver Cromwell was making alliance with Jews, if Satan had appeared to him and told him that in making the deal, every person in the British Isles who was Catholic, High Church Royalist, spoke a Celtic language (in 1650, that would have been as much as 35-40% of the population of the British Isles), identified ethnically as Norman rather than Saxon and had maintained French culture in conspicuous ways, would be slaughtered or sold into slavery in the West Indies or to Moslems, and those non-WASP British Isles natives would be replaced by Jews, the archetypal WASP would have taken the deal and felt spotless as the Lamb of God.

    WASP culture has changed no more than has Jewish culture.

  195. Jake says:
    @ElitecommInc.

    You need to understand timelines. Those non-Schofield Bibles with notes that you reference have come in the wake of Schofield. They are copying the success of Schofield.

    It is a very easy thing to do because all Anglophone Evangelicalism is what it is because of Anglo-Saxon Puritanism, which was a Judaizing heresy.

    That is the deep-culture reason the hyper-esteemed, hyper-Elite, hyper-genteel Oxford University Press, which well before 1909 was run almost exclusively by agnostics, atheists, and unitarians-universalists, published the Schofield Bible: those OUP editors and administrators recognized that the Schofield Bible reinforced core, defining, essential WASP values and identity.

    WASP culture was formed by a Judaizing heresy.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @polskijoe
  196. @Alden

    Why should a White man pray for the Jews who forced school busing, affirmative action, and unlimited non White immigration on us?

    God allowed that to happen because Gentile American Christians made a choice to reject the way of life demonstrated in the Bible (six days of work, twelve hours a day) that kept people tired and busy not indulging in carnal pleasures. “Idle hands are the devils playground” as the saying goes. People gave into their flesh and handed over the instruction of their children to “government schools”, wanted more “me” time–but didn’t use that newfound time granted by mechanical inventions to spend more time doing what Christ had told them to do in living for God. But rather took the newly discovered leisure time to erect new altars of pleasure for themselves insuring their idolatry would be multifaceted and pandemic.

    When people first became Christians it basically cost them everything in regards to physical comforts, career and social status. Men and women who are “a catch” don’t get fed to lions or crucified and lined up on the road into Rome as an example of what happens when you reject the religion of the day (emperor worship). Ever since the 2nd Industrial Revolution and the publishing of Charles Darwin, Christians have become by in large Christians in name only. The Lord Jesus Christ isn’t respected anymore and people aren’t afraid of Him, because the idols they adhere to are those that give instant pleasure and won’t send anyone to Hell for anything at all. It’s this apostasy that has allowed Jews in Hollywood to seduce willing Gentiles to turn their back on living a relatively “hard” life for the pleasure palaces we have today (ala porn-on-demand etc.). Gentiles are paying for their rebellion and until they repent it will only get worse.

    Now I hope I’m wrong, but I get the feeling you are not saved by the blood of Christ. If you are not, I urge you to do so. God doesn’t care about any government on the earth except Israel and that’s because He made a covenant with a flawed weak individual named Abram who loved God to death and He IS going to keep His word regarding that land grant. When Christ returns He IS going to kick out every single descendant of Ishmael out of the land and no one is going to do anything to stop it lest they be killed on the spot and burn forever in Hell. While He does that He is going to kill 2/3rd of the Jews for their rebellion as a house cleaning measure.

    Yes it sucks that the Jewies are acting like such colossal buttholes and are getting away with it for so long. How do a people throw off the Jews? The only way God allows this to happen is if those people become committed rampant Christians who constantly preach the Gospel to every Jew they meet. Jews HATE hearing they murdered their Messiah more than anything else and will recoil from the sunlight like the vampires that they are. BUT that means that the gentile population at large will have reverted to something more akin to an agrarian society that has no need for modern Bread & Circuses. It would be a people who live by faith and not flesh. Good luck seeing that happen in American 2018. Even if you could get such a movement to start occurring the first people who would assassinate you to stop it would be carnal Christians.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Alden
    , @Alden
  197. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Thomas Jefferson shared your assessment of Hebrew bible.

    So did a large segment of Germans in 1930s – 1940s -1950s, Zionist Jews condemned them as Nazis and antisemites.

    Unless Abrahamisn is extirpated Christianity is headed the way of Easter Island.

    • Replies: @Alden
  198. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wyatt Pendleton

    ##Christo – moron alert. ##

  199. biz says:
    @jacques sheete

    If that were really true then the case against Israel would be straightforward to make. Instead, every anti-Israel screed engages in some form of lie and truth stretching.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  200. @Seamus Padraig

    “So what did motivate Trump? Ego? Vainglory? Some burning conviction somewhere? I still don’t know.”

    Several lines of reasoning point me to the conclusion that Orange Clown is a “deep cover” or “sleeper” agent that’s been “waiting in the wings” for his Zionist masters’ call.

    I believe that the political ascendancy of Orange Clown should be seen as a sign of Zionist desperation.

    Anyway, one valid line of reasoning, IMO, is to rule out anything else. At 70 years old, Orange Clown is no spring chicken. So why would he run run NOW?

    If he had actually followed through on his campaign rhetoric, or at least some of it, he’d be considered a true American hero, IMO. He’s going to finally get us out of NATO? He’s going to pull out of the hopeless war in Afghanistan and cut out the costly and self-destructive nation building crap? He’s going to collaborate with Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and finally investigate the worst crime in U.S. history?

    If so he’d go down in history as a modern American revolutionary. The guy that single-handedly saved America from the “beast”. And he’s going to begin this herculean task at the age 70 years old? Seriously? How many historical examples are there where a 70 year old all of a sudden became a political visionary and led a revolution?

    He’s at the age where most people suffer cognitive decline, prostate problems, etc., but he’s going to square off against “the powers that be”, put himself at risk of assassination and lead a revolution in American politics? I just can’t accept that.

    Okay, but what about if he wanted to be president “just for a taste of power”? And that’s a fair question, IMO.

    That may explain why he wouldn’t necessarily give a damn about following through on his campaign promises, but it doesn’t explain why he would reverse himself on everything of major importance and continue on a what is obviously a path which risks self-destruction. For example, if it was all about him, all about “a taste of power”, why risk war with Russia by attacking a Syrian airbase with cruise missiles, for example? Why not do your war crimes and mass murder in some other country where the risk of nuclear war with Russia would be much less?

    If tomorrow I decided I was going to start robbing banks for fun and profit, I would probably want to choose those banks where I perceive the chance of encountering cops and/or security guards is relatively minimal.

    IOW, if it was all about him and an obsession with power, why would he go out immediately upon inauguration and start poking the eyes of the only two counties in the world that have the ability to fight back and ultimately to destroy him and his country? It doesn’t fit, IMO.

    But the main problem I have with that theory is that it seems unrealistic that the urge to seek and obtain such extreme life-or-death power over others would only strike him so late in life. No doubt he’s a sociopath/narcissist, but with his wealth and position in life, I would assume that by now he’s already created a situation where he feels he has enough “power” that he doesn’t have to seek high political office to exert control. Finally I would ask: How many historical examples are there where a serial killer (someone who supposedly kills for the thrill of having supreme power over others), only started killing people at the age of 70? And as far as I know there are very few if any such examples.

    Thus the only conclusion I can come to is that Orange Clown is the beast’s agent of last resort, and his whole campaign was a carefully calculated “bait and switch” scam.

    • Replies: @Alden
  201. @Alden

    What about the Holy Spirit? The Christian God is a Trinity.

    • Replies: @Alden
  202. Rurik says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Hey Radical,

    Can Trump simply fire Pence after winning re-election?

    I assume so. But it’d be tricky.

    And he’d have to pick someone anathema to the deepstate if he wants to stay healthy, I’m guessing. Unless of course Trump morphs into just another ziocon stooge, as he sometimes seems to be doing.

    I was appalled at the mention of Gitmo last night. The America I grew up in, reading about Thomas Jefferson and Mark Twain and Clarence Darrow vs. William Jennings Bryan. Father Knows Best, My Three Sons, the Brady Bunch and Partridge Family, Laugh In, the Rat Pack.. and all the other cultural silliness, with Dick Clark and Soul Train and Johnny Carson.

    America, for all its ignorance and foibles, at least had a vision of themselves as fundamentally ‘good’ people.

    “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”
    - Tocqueville

    if America is now going to be the kind of people who operate a permanent torture camp, then I don’t see how it can continue to consider itself a good and principled people.

    We have descended into barbarism, when we openly torture our victims. The contradiction last night between standing for the national anthem and honoring the flag, even as that flag increasingly now stands for war crimes, is sort of surreal for me.

    If Trump wants to make America great again, he has to start by making America good. Like it was when the idea of torture was something from the dark ages, that you looked at in some 15th century engraving with wonder at how people could be so barbaric.

    Now everything I grew up hearing about what the evil Nazis did, our country is now doing. Waging aggressive wars of conquest all over the planet. Imposing ((our)) will on others with the argument at the tip of the bayonet . Torturing and murdering and destroying nation after nation.

    Trump needs to bring American troops home, not declare the war in Afghanistan open-ended.

    sorry Radical, I know you didn’t ask for a treatise on the SOTU speech. But on occasion I have to bloviate, and I also know I’m going to listen to a chorus of scoundrels galore making excuses for torture because now it’s seen as kosher, and there’s just no depth to the abyss of moral depravity that my fellow Americans won’t plumb in their lust for shekels.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  203. Alden says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    I know about the trinity. But I didn’t mention the Holy Spirit because a lot of fundamentalists don’t believe in him.

  204. Alden says:
    @Anon

    Abraham, the original dead beat dad.

  205. @Jake

    excuse the delay unintentional

    One. you are missing the point

    a. Others have concluded that scripture is clear on the rapture –
    b. scripture itself describes the rapture, end times prophecies that–
    c. your assumption about timelines assumes that timelines are proof in itself.
    d. So is left with not discrediting Schofield but a succession of others that follow and either confirm or have other views of the same scripture and as I gave already indicated – they do.

    Two. You are interjecting as though this discussion is about Schofield — it’s really about what is believed by christians about end times and their relationship yo Israel

    Three. As I have already indicated in relationship to Israel, the evidence is dubious that regardless of end times revelations — one’s relationship to Christ demands no unique loyalty to Israel save as to providing Christ as Savior, they rejected. If one believes Christians are around during the tribulation that may be different — however, it’s a question not specifically mandated in scripture –

    Four. Given my views and whether Schofield was a scoundrel, a bit off his tunes, or the best scholar ever — the use of revelations prophecy to advance US policy with respect to Israel is dicey.

  206. Alden says:
    @Wyatt Pendleton

    “Saved by the blood of Christ?” Saved from what?

    I’m not really an atheist because I don’t care one way or another. But the best proof that God does not exist is affirmative action, school desegregation and the on going extermination of Whites via unlimited non White immigration.

    God is supposed to be all good and all powerful. Yet affirmative action exists
    Therefore there is no God. I never looked at porn in my life. I am celibate not carnal So why should I be punished for the sins of other White people?

    If there were a God there wouldn’t be affirmative action.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  207. @Rich

    Valid comments, but it seemed really weird to me that W pushed his war against muslim countries while apparently bending over backwards to insist that “Islam is a religion of peace” and insisting that muslims not be profiled by the new TSA or by any agency investigating terrorism.

    W really is retarded and was a very poor spokesman for his Zionist masters, but the insistence on muslim immigration by neocons in both parties is still the one constant theme that endures.

    • Replies: @Rich
  208. Alden says:

    Latest neo Nazis have been uncovered by the ever vigilant Jews. The official Olympic Norwegian sweater has secret Nazi symbols knitted into the design. Story is on drudge

  209. c matt says:

    he can choose to believe whatever he likes.

    No, he can’t. You can only choose to believe what is true. If you choose to believe that which is not true, you are delusional.

  210. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    Stu piddy is being sarcastic.

  211. Rurik says:

    I’m also going to add on this separate post, that yes, I know a lot of people will tell me ‘America’ was never good, nor great. That is was built on genocide and corruption, from the landing of the Mayflower to ‘fake’ moon landing. It’s always been a fraud and a murderous mistress of the wealthy.

    sure

    but for the average Joe, who worked for a living and raised his family, America was a place of freedom from Europe’s corrupt monarchies. Where mountain men carved out a life and tough hombres were their own law and order. It had a character forged in struggle, from the depression to the wars, foisted upon them by a fiend they never understood. But in their hearts, they knew they were a good people.

    How can they still feel that way when we bomb nations willy-nilly. Based on lies, and then walk away from the carnage, indifferent to the wails of anguish from the literally millions of people whose loved ones have been slaughtered and nation left in smoking ruins, only to do it again- to some other inoffensive nation and people.

    It’s the salt of the earth types I’m talking about. The average Joes, who’ve always been, I suspect, generally honest in their dealings with their fellow man, and proud to call themselves Americans, believing in that gentle whisper that freedom is good, and individual accountability are what America has always meant.

    But no more.

    Not even the illusion of goodness, when America goes around the world slaughtering and maiming and acting as gun dealer and facilitator to repressive regimes like the House of Saud.

    Or Israel, that den of snakes and villainy, polluting every American it touches with moral rupture.

    Perhaps Trump will bristle in his role as lackey to Bibi, and that crowd of supremely ((arrogant assholes)) in NYC, who demand every president assume the position, and say ‘thank you sir, may I have another’ as Bibi pisses in their face. Perhaps Trump has learned a thing or two about that lot, and their obscenely absolute amorality.

    One can only hope, I suppose..

    (thank you Mr. Unz and Mr. Giraldi, for providing me with this space to therapeutically fulminate ; )

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  212. @Alden

    Laughing. and laughing because i just reread this story. And I find your retelling more than peculiar — so peculiar in fact I am going to read it again to make sure I am on the same planet –

    You are are misconstruing the tale here. There is no seduction trap. It’s unclear whether Dinah went willing to bed or was raped it’s unclear. What is clear is that there was a seduction or rape of Dinah. Neither of which Jacob orchestrated or approved. She could very well have been complicit and not innocent – it is unclear. What is clear is that in either case – she was humiliated and her brothers took vengeance. The record does indicate a huge discussion about whether what his sons did was just — afterall the men they slew had actually agreed to abide by custom in an effort to right the wrong – so that they could then marry.

    One’s position on that tale has no bearing on end times or whether Israel should remain in existence — regardless of that story and hundred others — even where God himself takes Israel to task –
    Nor does it any manner shift Israel;s responsibility to act in accordance with international or fair treatment of others in Palestine
    .
    But that story in no manner condones: either relations out of wedlock or rape nor murder. What is interesting about scripture is that in telling the tale of the Jews – is notorious for sharing some of the worst character traits of all involved. And one should careful not to confuse that history as some manner of approval. Davis was not only king, he was a murderer and and adulterer. Suggesting that those characteristics are condoned merely because they inhabit scripture —- would be a mistake.

    you may be confusing the startling story of lot who offered his daughters to protect two strangers visiting his home —

    Laughing good grief

    • Replies: @Alden
  213. L.K says:
    @RobinG

    Maybe there is hope still for the Christian Evangelicals?

    Christian Evangelicals increasingly support Palestinian human rights
    by Alison Weir, September 29, 2014

    http://ifamericaknew.org/about_us/evchristians.html

    An article in Middle East Quarterly, a pro-Israel publication, reports that support for Israel is eroding among American evangelical Christians, with only 30 percent in a recent survey stating support for Israel above Palestinians.

    This trend is even more pronounced among youth, according to an article by David Brog, Jewish-American executive director of Christians United For Israel (CUFI), a major pro-Israel organization. Israeli Prime Minster Benjamin Netanyahu has called CUFI “a vital part of Israel’s national security” and columnist Charles Kauthammer has said, “I do not know of an organization in the world more important to Israel than CUFI.”

    …Brog quotes a journalist reporting in 2012 about the “the largest gathering of young evangelical leaders in America,” the Catalyst convention: “In dozens of random conversations, I noted that Millenians … expressed solidarity with the Palestinians and annoyance with Israel. This is a seismic shift in the American church and a serious threat to Israel’s one traditional area of support.”

    While evangelical support for Israel has often been attributed to their theology, Brog’s article indicates that the significant factor in the shift is learning the true situation in Israel-Palestine

  214. Rich says:
    @jacques sheete

    I don’t know, the dead bodies in the streets of Manhattan when the Muslim truck driver ran them over didn’t look like a false flag event to me. After the event all you hear on the news for a week is how we shouldn’t blame Muslims and have to keep an eye out for any type of backlash by crazed, bigoted Whites.

    Whether or not 6 million died, or if Hitler was actually the High Rabbi of Zion, Jews aren’t renting trucks to run us over or planting bombs trying to kill us.

  215. Rich says:
    @Twodees Partain

    After 9-11, just about every American wanted to punish the Muslims for their attack. Bush was able to channel that anger towards the Saudi and Israeli enemy, Saddam Hussein. And made a lot of money for his Halliburton pals. Stupid like a fox.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  216. @Alden

    Note:

    when one is discussing a book as reference nearly all evangelicals will seek that book in the Old Testament. I would avoid using those sources except as guides. In my case, as soon as you made the reference – it was foreign to me in every way. In that case, I went to my scripture. I even considered getting out my Qu’ran, thinking you meant that reference. But heading down my list of OT books — it’s not there. Then on doing a search, I understood and reread this story Chapter 34 in the Old testament book of Genesis.

    And certainly, being attacked while recovering from a circumcision does seem harsh and unfair. It was according to the brothers and others in response to a deep offense. A lot of women will want my head for not stating it was a clear case of rape. probably christians in general.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @renfro
    , @Alden
  217. Truth says:
    @Alden

    Why didn’t the early Christians just dump the porn, violence lying stealing and cheating part of the Bible? They should have.

    Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    • Replies: @Alden
  218. polskijoe says:
    @Jake

    Jake, when you refer to WASP, what are your criteria for this?

    1)Episcopalian and Presbyterian elites/followers of WASP. This included: Rockefellers, Roosevelts, Morgans, Forbess, Whitneys. They were Mainline Protestants. I presume part of Pilgrims.

    2)WASP relating to all Anglo-Saxon Protestant / elites? Including Baptists, Puritans, Evangelicals, etc.

    3)WASP extended to include all: Protestant Americans of Northern European or Northwestern European ancestry regardless of their class or power. I guess this includes Scandivians and Germans.

  219. DaveE says:
    @Alden

    “What beast?”

    The Star of David beast. Six intersecting lines, six triangles in a ring, a six-pointed star. Six, six six.

    You do the math.

  220. L.K says:

    Trump’s Foreign Policy Is In Service To Israel
    by Paul Craig Roberts

    Peter Jenkins, a former British ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency, expresses concerns about the decisions of France, Germany, and the UK to appease President Trump on fixing “flaws” in the Iranian nuclear agreement. http://lobelog.com/europe-dont-go-all-wobbly-on-the-jcpoa/ It is worth a read to see that the European governments are still Washington’s toadies despite the “hate Trump” attitude that allegedly prevails among Washington’s European vassals.

    Readers need to understand that there are no flaws in the agreement. The allegation of “flaws” is an Israeli orchestration in order to resurrect the attacks on Iran that the nuclear agreement terminated. What Trump is doing is appeasing Israel. Israel doesn’t want Iran to have long range missiles, non-nuclear ones, that enhance Iran’s defensive posture. More importantly, Israel does not want to lose the nuclear weapons charge that Israel invented and hoped to use to have the US military destabilize Iran a la Iraq and Libya. Israel’s problem with Syria and Iran is that both countries support Hezbollah, the Lebanese militia that has twice driven the vaunted Israeli army out of southern Lebanon, territory Israel wants to occupy for the water resources. If Israel, armed as it is with the American Zionist Neoconservatives who control US foreign policy, can resurrect the Western attack on Iran, Israel can perhaps pressure Iran to abandon Hezbollah and Lebanon to Israel.

    Americans are so totally brainwashed by Israeli propaganda that there is no public restraint on Washington serving Israel’s interest. And that is what Trump is doing. The tough guy is nothing but a panderer for Israel.

    What is going on has nothing whatsoever to do with the Iranian nuclear or missile program. It has to do with Israel’s use of US power, including the intimidation power over Europe, to remove Iran as a constraint on Israeli expansion.

    Of course, the UK diplomat probably knows this, but he also knows that he cannot say it without being read out of his career as an “anti-semite.”

  221. L.K says:
    @Rich

    Yawnnnn…

    It was not any Muslims that carried out 9-11, richy boy; it was your beloved Israel & its agents within Zamerica…

    Solving 9-11: The Deception that Changed the World

    http://bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book/

    Your heroes are the masters of false flag ops & terrorism; the Lavon Affair, the attack on the USS Liberty and subsequent cover-up(to this day) to 9-11…

    They started way back in the 1930s…

    Must Read: When Zionists Terrorized London – http://bollyn.com/#article_16007

    From the Israeli Press: British Intel Reveals How Zionists Terrorized London

    …There is, of course, a good reason why Zionist (i.e. Israeli) history is NOT taught in our universities in the United States. It is simply because if Zionist history were taught in our schools, then Americans would quickly realize that the real terrorists are the Zionists. Terrorism has been the tool of the Zionists all along, and continues to be so to this day.

    The following article from today’s Israeli press (Ha’aretz) sheds some light on this history:

    Coat Bomb and Explosive Prosthesis: British Intel Files Reveal How the Zionist Stern Gang Terrorized London
    Ha’aretz, December 2, 2017

    -Zionist terrorism was the main threat.
    -MI5 placed known extremist Jewish and Zionist groups in Britain under intense surveillance.
    -Stern Gang member claimed that he had “invented the book bomb.”
    -“The execution was perfect. I learned an important lesson. No security measures can stop sophisticated imaginative planning.” Yaacov Levstein of the Stern Gang (i.e. LEHI)

    MI5′s dossiers on the group released this week cast the Cold War’s early years in a stark new light: Terrorism, not the Soviet Union, was the main threat

    Records declassified this week by Britain’s Security Service, MI5, reveal an urgent terrorist threat that Britain faced in the 20th century. No, it wasn’t the Irish Republican Army or Islamist terrorist groups that would plague Britain later in the century, but rather extremist Zionist groups fighting the British after World War II to establish the State of Israel. …

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    , @Alden
  222. @Alden

    “What beast?”

    The first beast of Rev 13 of course.

  223. DaveE says:
    @Jake

    Sorry, but your obvious contempt for WASPs and white-people in general don’t hold water. Christians come in all colors, always have.

    Yeah, the British Isles are full of White people. France had even more fundumbentalists ala the Knights Templar and their King Phillip and they were/are not so white. The Blacks are the most fundumbentalist of all in the US and they want/have nothing to do with WASPs if they can help it.

    An outspoken anti-Semite named Martin Luther originated “Puritanism” even though it morphed considerably before it was called that. Luther wanted NOTHING to do with your “Judaizing heresy.”

    My point is, this is a “Christian” problem, nothing to do with race. Your diatribes are nothing more than cheap, ignorant shots at white people.

    You obviously have an agenda and are, therefore, a troll.

    • Agree: renfro
  224. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik: “well Jacques, they shoot children from rooftops for fun, and this is documented”

    Yes, they do, and it is a lot more common than we think too. Take a look at this case, this is what they do, the idf heroes. No wonder the cowards want dumb ass zamericans to fight their wars for them…

    Abed al-Rahman Shadi Obeidallah, 12 was killed by a sniper at Aida refugee camp

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Rurik
  225. @EliteCommInc.

    EliteComminc said: “And certainly, being attacked while recovering from a circumcision does seem harsh qand unfair.”

    Hi,

    Above… W.T.F.? A question.

    By chance, where the “brothers and others” attackers connected with either ISIS or maybe OBL son’s Al Qaeda, 2.1?

    (Zigh)

    SolontoCroesus was so correct about “boredom” having slipped into P. Giraldi article comment-threads and a need for a return to “Renaissance” common sense and logic.

    (Zigh) Must take time off and go back to driving school bus, safely away from Scranton-based Stop & Go Circumcision Centers.

    • Replies: @Dan Herman
  226. chris says:
    @chris

    this is why we’re in trouble:

    • LOL: Talha
  227. renfro says:
    @Rich

    Whether or not 6 million died, or if Hitler was actually the High Rabbi of Zion, Jews aren’t renting trucks to run us over or planting bombs trying to kill us

    They don’t have to…..all they had to do was propagandize the 40% of Americans who fall below the average IQ.

  228. @Rich

    You’re describing what Dick Cheney did, not W. W actually is retarded. He said what he was told to say, signed what he was told to sign, and everything else he did and said was so cringeworthy that the videos of his imbecility are still on display and still getting views.

    Maybe there’s some other George W Bush that you’re referring to. The one I mention was president for two terms. That other one, the evil genius, is obviously imaginary.

  229. Rurik says:
    @Rich

    Jews aren’t renting trucks to run us over or planting bombs trying to kill us.

    why do you suppose the man who drove that truck was in this country in the first place?

    and why do you suppose he was likely driven insane with hatred for the ZUSA, that likely bombed his nation into the stone age and slaughtered his family and perhaps entire village?

    who is demanding the ‘invade the world / invite the world’ psychotic insanity ?

    have you ever heard of Sheldon Adelson?

    Have you ever heard of ‘the neocons’?

    do you know why we were lied into wars in the Middle East?

    IOW, are you posting to this site without having even the slightest idea what you’re talking about, other than what you’ve been told by the controlled media?

    do you understand that doing so makes you look like a human cow?

  230. @DaveE

    Dave, you barely read his post if you think that Jake is some white hating troll. The New England elite are descended from WASPs. Few of them are even Christian in the currently living generations, but their ancestors have been the eastern elites for several centuries. WASPs are only one segment of white Americans.

    The old line, eastern WASP elites are the source of much of what is wrong with both the US government and American society. BTW, having an agenda doesn’t make someone a troll.

    • Replies: @renfro
  231. Alden says:
    @polskijoe

    What business is it of theirs if Jews do or do not convert to Judaism ?

  232. Ace says:
    @Alden

    Thanks. I was unaware of that.

  233. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    Yes LK,

    even as I wince when he says ‘white privilege’ (a code for anti-white hatred) I wonder what he thinks about Rachel Corrie’s white privilege.

    But I was very glad to hear him mention Australia as guilty too. Sure, the ZUS is the super power, and so we get the dubious pleasure of spending trillions on these crimes and having our young people slaughtered more often, as they get to lose their souls slaughtering innocents.

    It sure is a lot of fun being the main fount of blood and treasure to lavish upon our deadliest enemy Israel, for sure. But at least the guy was honest enough to admit that all Western nations are all equally guilty in principle, to the atrocities in Palestine and all over the Middle East. France, (the main nation responsible for bombing Libya) and Australia and even Canada have carried out illegal air strikes in Syria.

    and the list of belligerents (war criminals) responsible for destroying Libya is long

    Belgium
    Bulgaria
    Canada
    Denmark
    France
    Greece
    Italy
    Jordan
    Netherlands
    Norway
    Qatar
    Romania
    Spain
    Sweden
    Turkey
    United Arab Emirates
    United Kingdom
    United States

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unified_Protector

  234. renfro says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.

  235. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @renfro

    Right: everyone in Europe for well over a thousand years was a lunatic.

  236. Zumbuddi says:
    @Weaver1

    More than a few Jews -Holocaust survivors– have told therapists that they survived by making bullets or other munitions for German military use.

    The guilt was not so intense that they declined payment.

  237. Ace says:
    @Seraphim

    Many thanks. That seems accurate, especially the fascination with OT names. They did indeed think theirs was an entirely new enterprise.

    That Sabbath Day thinking was evident back in England. Elizabeth I had the Book of Sports published to put the royal imprimatur on Sunday sport. The Puritans didn’t like that.

    Edmund Morgan wrote a highly entertaining book, The Puritan Dilemma. The Story of John Winthrop. He does not focus on the fascination with OT Israel but merely says that the Puritans hoped to be an example to the world as Israel had been chosen before.

    Life in the Colony had its grim side in that everyone was vigilant about sin, that of others I’m sure, and not going to church wasn’t an option. A Colony notable Endicott was given to taking things to extremes but Winthrop himself seems to have been a balanced individual with a sense of human possibilities.

    The image of Puritan as censorious busybody seems to be the dominant one now but it doesn’t take into account that a woman could publicly complain in church that her husband was not paying attention to her sexually. Too, there’s the phenomenon of bundling which sounds like it was a realistic compromise between passion and restraint though I’ve not looked into the particulars.

    I still have some reservations about what Alden’s pointed out, that Puritans didn’t believe that Christ was God, but mostly from my understanding of how literal the Puritans were. I have seen nothing that suggested they weren’t “full gospel” types and I’ve certainly not anything that indicates they finessed Jesus out of the picture. Regardless, it’s a fascinating period where I think it can be justly noted that Henry threw the baby out with the bathwater or opened up a whole new can of worms, one. Not a few people thought on a range of subjects that if a little bit of this is good then ten tons of it must be fantastic. I look forward to reading more about the English Civil War and the Expectorate.

  238. @Authenticjazzman

    Someone located at your mental niveau is simply not qualified to judge and determine DT’s or anyone else’s intelligence status, you yourself being a blabber-mouth fucking nitwit.

    Niveau?

    Nice to see that you’ve learned how to use a thesaurus, but that use of the word is a risible stretch, so you, being the “brain” that you claim, should have checked it out in a dictionary first. Anyway, that and your petulant comment is good for some chuckles.

    Now you can add “pro-troll” to your sappy, self preening tagline. :)

    JS, Don’t give a hoot about silly Mensa since forever, wouldn’t brag about any military “training” and pro troll-pisser-offer.

    • LOL: L.K, renfro
  239. @DaveE

    I want to intercede here because I am someone that does have a deep contempt for the WASP elite. Aside from their eugenics agenda and their philo-semitism (ex. Balfour), the British Establishment (i.e. Society of the Elect, Cliveden Set, Round Table, CFR, etc.) emphatically admit to intentionally starting World Wars through various provocations. This is documented thoroughly by two different and extremely verifiable sources. The first source to confirm this is, Bill Clinton’s Georgetown mentor, Carroll Quigley in roughly the first 200 pages of his book, ‘Tragedy & Hope.’ http://www.carrollquigley.net/pdf/Tragedy_and_Hope.pdf . Please also read, http://www.carrollquigley.net/pdf/The_Anglo-American_Establishment.pdf . Note that both Rhodes and Rothschild are listed by Quigley on page 311 of the latter book as S.O.T.E. members. The second source is Anthony Sutton of the Hoover Institute at Stanford. Source material can be found here. https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik_revolution-5.pdf

    https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_Hitler.pdf

    The CFR is a conspired tyranny and its various manifestations intentionally caused the death of at least one hundred million people through war and weaponized famine. Both the CFR and the Israel Lobby are funded by the Bank of International Settlements and are in control of your government right now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr2CwVGmtoM

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  240. @biz

    If that were really true then the case against Israel would be straightforward to make.

    It is. It was a fraud and a terror state from the beginning. See?

    Instead, every anti-Israel screed engages in some form of lie and truth stretching.

    See statement above.

    Instead, every pro-Israel screed engages in some form of lie and truth stretching.

  241. @L.K

    LK, when Bollyn’s book came out, I didn’t have time to read it. Thanks for linking to that page. I’ve begun to read it and was pleased to see reference to the fact that the “Global War on Terror” was an Israeli invention, proposed and pushed for years before 911 by Netanyahu. That is seldom mentioned today in discussions of 911.

  242. @Rich

    … Jews aren’t renting trucks to run us over or planting bombs trying to kill us.

    You can’t prove that.

    Anyway, why would “Jews,”drama queens that they’re known to be, engage in such piddly scenes like that?

    Ever hear of Ben Hecht? The Irgun? Haganah?

    You think the terrorists would stop at Palestine or the Brits? Ever hear of the USS Liberty “accident?”

    “The Jews of America are for you. You are their champions. You are the grin they wear. You are the feather in their hats. You are the first answer that makes sense—to the New World. Every time you blow up a British arsenal, or wreck a British jail, or send a British railroad sky high, or rob a British bank, or let go with your guns and bombs at the British betrayers and invaders of your homeland, the Jews of America make a little holiday in their hearts”

    Letter to the Terrorists of Palestine, Ben Hecht, New York Post, 14th May 1947.

    http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2006/12/350210.jpg

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  243. @renfro

    Well, its more a matter of how one takes scripture seriously in context. I may not agree with Vice Pres Pence on several issues: the extent Israeli support, immigration, etc. — which should be shut down for five years until we get it straight.

    But I don’t his sincerity. I applaud his views regarding Christ, apologetically. And Despite his differences with Pres Trump during the campaign, he has been supportive.

    Understand that christians even fundamentalists are not monolithic save but to some core principles of fairy and on those i doubt there’s hairs breath between us. And I make no apologies for that.

    And I am not sure i would agree that a Pres Pence would be worse. That’s a hefty assumption based soley on the relationship with Israel. but at least he gets why celibacy matters – laugh.

    • Agree: iffen
  244. Sam Shama says:
    @renfro

    This is one of the most unintelligent comments I’ve seen of late.

    • Disagree: Zumbuddi, Rurik
    • Replies: @Talha
  245. @renfro

    Well, its more a matter of how one takes scripture seriously in context. I may not agree with Vice Pres Pence on several issues: the extent Israeli support, immigration, etc. — which should be shut down for five years until we get it straight.

    But I don’t doubt his sincerity. I applaud his views regarding Christ, unapologetically. And Despite his differences with Pres Trump during the campaign, he has been supportive.

    Understand that christians even fundamentalists are not monolithic save but to some core principles and on those I doubt there’s hairs breath between us. And I make no apologies for that.

    And I am not sure I would agree that a Pres. Pence would be worse. That’s a hefty assumption based soley on the relationship with Israel. but at least he gets why celibacy matters – laugh.

    You do realize that nearly every aspect about what it means to be a citizen is interwoven with what scripture means as is to people. Anyone attempting to understand the US without a serious look at scripture is ignoring the entire European and especially the British debate about the relationship between religion ans state, state power, state in relation to individual rights, the debate over God given rights verses natural and are the same. Every single founder was religious schooled about or on scripture. the very essence of freedom, individual responsibility is the result on the question of a personal relationship with god or one moderated by the church. Great Britain from which we are derived spent 1000 years of bloodshed largely on questions of religious belief and power – often intense beaten out over what scripture meant or the sword.

    Separation of Church and state is rooted in that struggle. So, one may dismiss a personal belief in scripture. But make no mistake its role in who and what this country is serious business. But to dismiss it out of hand is to misread how and why this country was founded.

    Obviously as a fundamentalist I am not a huge fan of the revolutionary war —

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @renfro
    , @Alden
  246. excuse the double post — wholly unintentional.

  247. Seraphim says:
    @Alden

    Saved from the “fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” where “the angels sent by the Son of Man to weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness” will throw them” .
    “Then the righteous (those saved by the blood of Christ) will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father”.
    Take care what you wish for.

    • Replies: @Alden
  248. polskijoe says:
    @Jon Baptist

    Appears you know your stuff, I also suggest Peter Myers works on this.

    They indeed did foment the wars, they funded both sides. WW2 would not be as massive without them.

    You had the Milner, Lionel Curtis, Stead, Rothschild, Rhodes.
    Some infighting happened,
    the Balfour declaration was signed, and the Zionists came in, to have lots of power today.

    • Replies: @Jon Baptist
  249. polskijoe says:
    @jacques sheete

    Irgun that was the Revisonist or Revolutionary Zionists wasnt it?
    Greater Israel and violence ones?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  250. Zumbuddi says:
    @renfro

    I’d change “seriously” to “literally.”

    Also ESSENTIAL to set those books in context, both in terms of what came before, even well before Hebrew as well as Christian bible, and also ESSENTIAL to recognize that Hebrew & Christian emerged & spoke in idiom of relatively small part of world.

    If USA is hell-bent on diversity, Christians, esp Fundies & Evangelicals are going to have to take on board that people will bring their religious traditions with them, be they Hindu or Buddhist, Orthodox or Wiccan or African spirit rituals.

    imo Christianity has been mortally corrupted by post-WWII Judie hyphenation.

    Christianity is also intellectually exhausted.

    New (old) belief systems that enter with immigrants may be a welcome shot in the arm.

    Abrahamism needs to be seriously defined and deleted from the Christian canon.

    Holocaustism MUST be challenged in US courts on Constitutional grounds.

    • Agree: renfro
  251. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Are you sure – check out the comic book thread…

    Oh noooeeezzz – da Black peepul have a super hero movie – they are gonna eat our chillun’!!!

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  252. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    Hey Talha,
    LOL. I was surprised by that comment and was about to write a response when ElitecommInc’s post #248 delivered the needful.

    Especially this part:

    Anyone attempting to understand the US without a serious look at scripture is ignoring the entire European and especially the British debate about the relationship between religion ans state, state power, state in relation to individual rights, the debate over God given rights verses natural and are the same. Every single founder was religious schooled about or on scripture. the very essence of freedom, individual responsibility is the result on the question of a personal relationship with god or one moderated by the church. Great Britain from which we are derived spent 1000 years of bloodshed largely on questions of religious belief and power – often intense beaten out over what scripture meant or the sword.

    BTW reading one of your other posts I learnt something new. Didn’t know your Mahdi is not the Messiah. Always thought so.

    • Replies: @Talha
  253. iffen says:

    I have noticed that the constant whining by this writer and his fan-boy commenters here regarding Trump and Evangelicals differs little from the whining by the SJWs and the MSM regarding the two.

  254. Pence is a bone thrown to fundamentalist Christians, and anti-impeachment insurance for everyone else.

  255. Seraphim says:
    @DaveE

    Luther was a mentally imbalanced person and an opportunist. He believed initially that he will be able to convert the Jews presenting a version of Christianity more palatable to them by leaning more on the Old Testament. E.g. he wrote a pamphlet, ‘That Jesus Christ was born a Jew’ (1523), which affirms the Jewish descent of Jesus (a theme incessantly peddled ever since in ‘judaizing’ circles). He excluded from the Canon of Scriptures essentially Christian ones (like the most critical to ‘Judaism’ ‘Epistle to the Hebrews’ of Saint Paul) and by directly falsifying in translation Rom. 3:28 by inserting the “by faith ‘alone’ (is a man justified) which was not in the original text (“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law”). All Protestantism is based on this falsehood (faith alone/Sola Scriptura).
    But the Jews would have none of it, despite the fact that Luther’s challenge to Roman Catholicism was welcomed by Jews like Abraham Farissol, who regarded Luther as a Crypto-Jew, a reformer bent on upholding religious truth and justice, and whose iconoclastic reforms were directed toward a return to Judaism, ditto the Kabbalists who also regarded Luther as a kind of crypto-Jew who would educate Christians away from the bad elements of their faith.
    As would have none of it the nobles and the populace who supported Luther, intent to loot not only the Catholic Church but the Jews as well. The animus against Jews was still too strong to defy it openly. No less, probably, that this argument wouldn’t have gained too much traction in the Catholic quarters (at a time when the Church, the Empire and the Inquisition were still powerful and the Jews preferred to remain the bankers of the Papacy and the Empire, mostly that the Papacy was so instrumental in their fortunes). So, Luther changed course.
    Calvin would also be accused squarely in his own time of being a ‘judaizer’ or even a ‘Jew’ himself by Aegidius Hunnius, a Lutheran who wrote a treatise ‘Calvinus Judaizans’.

  256. Alden says:
    @Seraphim

    So you think I am going to hell.

    Are you insane?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  257. wayfarer says:

    Abrahamism, the world’s oldest racket;

    infringing on mankind’s free will for 2700 years;

    maintaining the status-quo of a human spirit, divided and conquered;

    suppressing boundless truth, imaginative creativity, and open-minded critical thinking;

    offering ignorant ideology, stale dogma, rose-colored myths, and toxic certitude;

    providing its rabbis, priests, and imams with a thimble full of love/wisdom, and the “sacred” least-common-denominator with which to produce equivalent-fractions in the form of blind followers.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

  258. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    That was the best part of the comment in my estimation also. Those details of Anglo-Saxon history and their effects on our own country cannot be overlooked.

    I can see why people make the mistake about the Mahdi (as) since he is a major figure that unites and leads the Muslims, but the title of Messiah clearly belongs to the Son of Mary (pbuh):

    “When the angels said: ‘O Mary! God gives you the good news of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, who is illustrious in this world and the hereafter, and who is one of those brought near.’” (3.45)

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  259. Alden says:
    @L.K

    The zionists made several attempts to assassinate British foreign secretary Ernest Bevin.

    The story of Zionism is just treason and treachery. They moved to Palestine in the 1880s and immediately started spying on the Turkish army bases police stations and government offices.

    During WW1 they committed treason by giving the information they collected for decades to the British and fighting with the British.

    As soon as the British took over after WW1 they began preparing for their revolution against the British.

    Wonderful immigrants.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  260. Alden says:
    @Truth

    The more I read all these opinions and bible quotes the more I believe that both Christianity and Judaism are total insanity. Your quote is insane.

  261. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Attacked? They were massacred every one. The Jewish sheik planned the massacre for a long time and ordered his daughter Dinah to go to the well unveiled flirt with the goyische kopf seduce him, convince him and his father to convert and then massacre the entire goyim tribe while they were incapacitated.

    And you approve of that episode because God spoke from the sky and told the Jews to do that.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  262. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    In my original post I mentioned Lot who offered his daughters to the sodomites who planned to rape the angels that were visiting him

    Why are you still insisting that it was right and moral for the Jews to massacre all the men in an entire tribe while they were helpless. And the Jews then took over the well, the oasis the animals and women of the tribe whose men they massacred.

    But you are a non Christian Hebrew Bible believer who believes that even massacring all the men in an entire tribe is moral and right as long as Jews do it.

    What’s your opinion of the original dead beat Dad raping his slave Hagar till she got pregnant and then kicking her and their son Ishmael our into the desert to die of thirst and heat.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @EliteCommInc.
  263. Alden says:
    @Wyatt Pendleton

    Exactly how is one saved by the blood of Christ? This thread is getting crazier and crazier

  264. RobinG says:

    Phil,

    Is anyone writing about the Hell that is Libya? I will NEVER forgive Hillary (or Obama) for the destruction of that country. Trump may turn out just as bad, but at least that ghoul wasn’t rewarded for her evil bloodlust.

    Cynthia McKinney tweeted:

    The Libyans from Tawergha have set February 1 as the date for their return to their land. The Misratans have said no to them and that they will kill them. Don’t let another Libya Holocaust happen. Share this message far and wide so all eyes are on Libya. http://www.libyaholocost.org/index.php/en/#

    • Agree: Zumbuddi
  265. RobinG says:
    @Alden

    “Why are you still insisting….”

    Because self-described incurable Bible Thumper.

  266. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Also this…

    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    John Adams

    https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-02-02-3102

  267. Alden says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Henry 8 had thousands of English bibles printed and ordered at least one put out in every church so anyone could come in read it. Many people were nice and read it aloud to those who couldn’t read.

    But they all wallowed in the sex and violence of the Hebrew part instead of the docile obedient goody goody Christian part

    So after a few years Henry ordered the Bible’s locked up and passed a law forbidding all but clergy and scholars from reading the Bible

    Reading this thread about beasts and blood and approval of massacres, I can understand why Henry outlawed Bible reading.

  268. @polskijoe

    Polski Joe, I’m definitely praying for Poland and that they won’t succumb to the full-on assault by the Sabbateans. https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201801281061128754-israel-holocaust-poland-ambassador-recall/

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-national-question-and-the-war-on-poland/

    Question. If Netanyahu and his terrorist entity want to collectively punish and extort money from all the Polish people for the crimes committed by the Germans during WWII, then shouldn’t Israeli Jews also be completely accountable for the admitted murders committed the Soviet Bolsheviks and Communists? https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    President Duda cannot be blind to the fact of who the Bolsheviks really were and what group from Wall Street funded them.

    • Agree: polskijoe
  269. Seraphim says:
    @Alden

    I certainly don’t wish you that. I am sad that you don’t care about your own salvation.

    “The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They have corrupted [themselves], and become abominable in their devices; there is none that does goodness, there is not even so much as one. 2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, to see if there were any that understood, or sought after god. 3 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become good for nothing, there is none that does good, no not one” (Psalm 13:1)

    “And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted” (Luke 18:9-14).

    • LOL: Alden
  270. MEexpert says:
    @Alden

    What about the Unitarians? They are Christians but believe in one God.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    , @Alden
  271. renfro says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Jake is a troll with absolutely no acquaintance with real history…its depressing how few here do.

    He is obsessed with WASP and yet knows nothing about them….he just keep repeating the same things over and over with no actual historical evidence.

    The ‘elites” of the North East weren’t even elites in colonial America….the elite WASP in America were those British and others that originated from the first America colony and the first American congress convened in Virginia…..several years before the Old testament Puritans crawled onto Plymouth and proceeded to burn witches.

    Read my lips…..WASP from the beginning disliked the Jews….even some Puritans disliked the Jews. Peter Stuyvesant, the Dutch governor of New Amsterdam kicked the Jews out of his colony, Jefferson called the Jews and Judaism ‘ vile and primitive’, Ulysses S. Grant expel Jews from portions of the South during the Civil War. Jews were kept out of the US stock exchange until late 1800 by the WASP. As late as 1969 WASP resorts in the South wouldn’t accept Jewish guest. I could give you hundreds more examples of WASP distain for the Jews.

    Right now the very WASP Episcopalian, Methodist and Presbyterian churches have endorsed the boycott of Israel settlements—-and the Episcopalian church a year ago even wrote a letter to the US congress condemning Israel—-in a break with the so called Judeo-Christian interfaith alliance.

    Jake is a nutcase.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Twodees Partain
  272. renfro says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Every single founder was religious schooled about or on scripture. the very essence of freedom, individual responsibility is the result on the question of a personal relationship with god or one moderated by the church.

    You need to study Jefferson, the main force, on separation of church and state to understand why he thought religion was necessary…..and it wasn’t because of men’s personal relationship to God.
    It was for a very different reason—-go find out.

    • Agree: Zumbuddi
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  273. KA says:
    @Alden

    Hashmonean dynasty established a Jewish state wresting the control from the Greek before Rome came to occupy the area.

  274. @jacques sheete

    Jizzman belongs to “Mensa” not Mensa.

  275. Lotsa crackpot ideas expressed here.

    Here’s another to add to the stew.

    Bennett calls the BDS movement a “new enemy”, which, although lacking “tanks and missiles”, nevertheless “poses a serious threat to the Jewish state”.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/minister-activists-soldiers/

    And he says that as if it’s a bad thing. Is there anything that’s not a threat to those narcissistic infants?

    I got news for you Izzy firsters. Some of us dumb goyim have “threat” fatigue and are tired of your drama-queen whining, lying, thievery and murder. Also, FYI, you’re just not that important except as particularly nauseating and persistent irritants.

    Do us all a favor and grow up. Or dry up and blow away.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  276. iffen says:
    @renfro

    Jake is a nutcase.

    Puritans crawled onto Plymouth

    You, on the other hand, …

  277. @polskijoe

    I’m not sure what your question is, but the info is easily available online.

    This seems to be a decent source of info that may answer your questions.

    https://www.lycoming.edu/schemata/pdfs/Sellers.pdf

  278. headrick says:

    Here is a what-if. What if the US cultural and political center cast Christianity to the curb,
    and what if Russia picked it up an put it on the mantle again? What then would happen to
    the loyalty of Christians in the US, the ones that knew about it anyway? Just asking.
    We choose based on cultural affinity to some extent. If the US becomes a militantly secular
    proponent of the civil religion that seems to be advancing in the US, and Putin kneels in the snow praying with Kirill on Christmas, well I wonder why the Democrats see Russia as their mortal enemy. Maybe they are right about that.

    • Replies: @Art
  279. Rurik says:
    @jacques sheete

    Or dry up and blow away.

    interesting choice of words Jacques

    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.” Benjamin Netanyahu, 2002

  280. @renfro

    I guess its convenient to pull out one of the areas I noted and say “aha”. But I also made it a point that the issue of the relationship between state and church/state and god arises in the struggles in Great Britain of the same.

    “The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America
    When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
    1776

    My comments don’t have anything to do with Thomas Jefferson’s advocacy for religion. It’s the role that scripture/christian and old testament thought played in establishing the country, that to dismiss scripture is to miss its impact on our identity as a nation. And that remains regardless of whether one is a practicing Catholic or just agnostic — the founders knew scripture as matter of training at influenced their view politically. i have never read The Thomas Jefferson Bible, but apparently it exists.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/how-thomas-jefferson-created-his-own-bible-5659505/

    • Replies: @renfro
  281. “If a man followed the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he faithfully followed the teachings of the New, he would be insane.” — Robert G. Ingersoll

    Appears that Spence meets both criteria.

  282. Zumbuddi says:
    @MEexpert

    Unitarians are not a religious group they are an annex of the Deep State, the holocaust industry, the Democratic party.

    Priestley would find today’s Unitarians Stuck on Stupid.

    UU ministers train in same seminaries as other uber-zionists.

    Renfro said Episcopal, Methodist & Presbys endorse BDS, and that may be true– I know the effort it took for Presbys to pass a disinvest resolution– but major elements in all those denominations still preach from a Scofield bible and Zionist mindset. Their sense of history is polluted, or truncated, by Hollywood, tv, and ADL.

    They toe the Zionist line, whether thru intimidation or stupidity or lack of intellectual courage.

  283. @Alden

    I think it’s a good idea to respond to what i actually stated as opposed to making something up and attributing it to me. At no time did I defend , what you have misconstrued as to the events regarding the brother’s response. In fact, I indicate that its more than questionable. I never suggested that any support for its rightness or moral goodness.

    Saying so would be incorrect. Saying so is incorrect.
    _________

    There is absolutely no indication as with the above example that God condones this behavior and my position on relations is as follows. Not until marriage. And not with anyone else but spouse. Anything out of that frame is out of bounds. And as i have repeatedly stated throughout any discourse on the question of Israel.

    Neither being Israeli, a Jew, a practicing Jew orthodox or not in relation to the OT is grant for carte blanche passes of behavior. That applies to Jews to Jews, Israeli to Israeli and Israeli/Jew in relation to anyone else, including Palestinians. nor do I endorse a practice among christians that suggests hod orders to christians to grant a pass to everything and anything Jews.Israelis do.

    As is indicated by my comments here and elsewhere consistently. With respect to VP Pence, it is one of those areas in which we disagree.

    You might want to avoid attributing ideas, comments or attitudes I have not expressed or even hinted to make a false case of complaint. But that is your choice.

  284. @Alden

    You might want to avoid reading scripture from the internet without an original texts handy. Your rendering is incorrect. I have noted this previously.

    And again, i have indicated just the opposite, more than once.

    • Replies: @Dan Herman
    , @Rurik
    , @anonymous
  285. @Authenticjazzman

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro jazzmusician.

    Congratulations for being killer of babies and being proud of it. Being up there, you must be very, very close to HIM.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  286. @EliteCommInc.

    You might want to avoid reading scripture from the internet without an original texts handy. Your rendering is incorrect. I have noted this previously.

    The ever changing Word from printing to printing.

  287. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I have noted…

    … i have indicated

    sure Elite, but you’re also a common and shameless troll

    don’t you understand that once you’ve destroyed all your credibility, (in the unlikely event that you ever had any), then whatever you claim to have ‘noted or indicated’ are going to be met with even more skepticism than if you’d have kept your troll-hole shut on the issue.

    (just trying to help out here ; )

  288. @ChuckOrloski

    SolontoCroesus was so correct about “boredom” having slipped into P. Giraldi article comment-threads and a need for a return to “Renaissance” common sense and logic.

    (Zigh) Must take time off and go back to driving school bus, safely away from Scranton-based Stop & Go Circumcision Centers.

    Must be lonely being at the top!

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  289. @Talha

    The Mahdi (as) is not the Messiah – our Liege, Jesus the Son of Mary (as) is. Imam Mahdi (as) will be at the vanguard and is the precursor to his return. The Son of Mary (as) has been given the title “Messiah” and will be the one who eventually rules – this, of course, is the Sunni Orthodox understanding.

    I remember a Muslim telling me that Jesus will be subservient to Mahdi as Jesus will pray behind Mahdi the leader and leading the prayer. According to him, Mahdi will rule and Jesus will follow him.

    • Replies: @Talha
  290. @Rurik

    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.” Benjamin Netanyahu, 2002

    Can you please provide some reference to your quote of PM of Israel?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  291. @Rurik

    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.” Benjamin Netanyahu, 2002

    Good catch!

    Of course, it won’t take long for the anti-Goyim to say that’s a fake…

    • Replies: @Rurik
  292. @Rurik

    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.”

    —Netanyahu, the prime minister of “Israel” to Jonathan Pollard upon exiting Pollard’s jail cell., [1]

    1. ↑ Hoffman, Gil (2009-02-10). “Kadima wins, but rightist bloc biggest”. Jerusalem Post. Retrieved 2009-08-11.

    http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu

    Conveniently, the link to the Jerusalem Post isn’t working.

    • Replies: @Talha
  293. Talha says:
    @Dan Herman

    Hey Dan,

    Jesus will be subservient to Mahdi as Jesus will pray behind Mahdi the leader and leading the prayer

    That is not correct. Because there are multiple hadith on the subject – some which mention that Jesus (pbuh) leads and some that mention that the Mahdi (as) will indeed lead the prayer, but after having first offered it to the Son of Mary (pbuh) who will push him forward and state that he should lead. The scholars have reconciled between the differing reports in that they are talking about different times. When Jesus (pbuh) first arrives, he will let the Mahdi (as) lead the prayer, in deference to the Ummah of the time (of which he becomes a part of) and recognition of the finality of Shariah as well as because the call of prayer was made when he was about to lead – then he (Jesus [pbuh]) will commence leading prayers.

    Just because one is led in prayer by another, does not entail a lesser status – it is reported that the Prophet (pbuh) allowed Abu Bakr (ra) to lead the prayer – and prayed behind him – when he was feeling ill.

    As far as ruling; well, because there are variant reports, there are differing opinions on what exactly it means. Some hadith clearly mention he will descend as a just ruler. Others mention that he is a just judge. Others mention specific policies he will implement which are obviously the prerogative of a sovereign. And he is obviously cooperating with Imam Mahdi (as). So what does this all mean? There is no doubt that he will rule and judge justly after helping the believers to victory. Is it by proxy of Imam Mahdi (as), after the Mahdi (as) dies, etc. these are details about which scholars differ. There are some things in the narrative which are very solid and certain details which are fuzzy.

    Again, this is from the Sunni perspective.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  294. Rurik says:
    @jacques sheete

    didn’t take long ;)

    the quote wasn’t recorded on tape, but reported, much like Bibi’s cheerful exclamation about 9/11

    “it’s very good”

    like the other quote, this one was reported as well, in this case by the NYT

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/12/us/day-terror-israelis-spilled-blood-seen-bond-that-draws-2-nations-closer.html

    but it’s certainly consistent with everything we know about Bibi

    like the Ariel Sharon quote about Jews controlling the ZUSA

    one thing..

    a while back, when you typed “it’s very good” into a search engine, the first thing that popped up was usually Bibi’s charming quote. But now it almost never appears on the front page. Curious, I went though a bunch of search engines until I got to Startpage, that was the first one I came across that had not scrubbed the quote form their results.

    https://www.ixquick.com/do/search

    it was on the bottom of the page, but at least it was there

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  295. @Rurik

    …but it’s certainly consistent with everything we know about Bibi

    And that is all we really need to know.

  296. @Rurik

    You’ll have to explain these comments – loss of credibility in what way.

  297. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You might want to avoid reading scripture from the internet without an original texts handy. Your rendering is incorrect. I have noted this previously.

    Do you mean that only scriptural texts pre-Gutenberg are the “correct renderings?” Or pre-Wycliff? Pre-King James? Pre-Scofield?
    Please do direct us in the way we should go.

    Seems obvious, though, that any scriptural texts written in ballpoint are not credible, right?

    nb. Please excuse the post if you have expounded on this before; I just now looked in on this conversation.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  298. @Rurik

    you are welcome to provide evidence that i have changed my positions on any issue.

    You do realize that the terms

    noted and indicated are complimentary as opposed to contradictory. i also understand it is common when frustrated by disagreement to make the issue personal — but that doesn’t really help address issues.

    If in the end its about name calling, I think the case is settled.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Rurik
  299. @Dan Herman

    ” Congratulation for being killer of babies and being proud of it”

    Specifically just when did I ever “kill” any babies”, and when and where did I express pride for something I have never done?

    You are a slanderous POS and out of your fucking mind.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

  300. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Of interest – this article is by a Congressional candidate who is talking about how the real world of fundraising goes in our political system:
    “WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE ROLODEXED: ONE CANDIDATE’S JOURNEY INTO THE REALITY OF POLITICAL FUNDRAISING…Rendell asked me if I’ve been to Israel. I said I have not. The bundler immediately chimed in, ‘Well, we need to get you over there because it would make it a helluva lot easier to raise money for you.’ Rendell followed up with, ‘Call my office and we’ll get you set up for a trip over there.’ I remained silent…”

    https://theintercept.com/2018/01/31/democratic-party-political-fundraising-dccc/

    Of course that is only one of the influential and corrupting influences he outlines. He eventually comes to this great conclusion:
    “That said, I came to the conclusion that it wasn’t enough for me to potentially win and just be another healthy cog in a fundamentally sick system. I’d rather challenge and have some hard conversations with those perpetuating that system — one that is dangerous for our democracy. I’d rather step away and find ways to transform that system, which is what I chose to do.”

    Peace.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Art
  301. @jacques sheete

    ” Now you can add “pro-troll” to your sappy, self-preening tagline”

    Okay so here is comes, as expected, the ultimate leftist online bludgeon, the “troll” card, along with the “racist” card, the misogynist card, the homophobe card, and the reactionary card, which are then employed when leftist fools have no valid, bonafide points to offer.

    Look you may fool others with your meaningless blather, but you do not fool myself, as I am aware of what a vacuous clown you are.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @renfro
  302. iffen says:
    @ElitecommInc.

    If in the end its about name calling, I think the case is settled.

    Admirable.

    Feel free to designate and assign name calling rights on your behalf to me. I love getting into the mud with the pigs. :)

  303. @Authenticjazzman

    You forgot to add, “pro troll.” ;)

  304. @Talha

    Another good quote from the article.

    I was ashamed of myself for going along with it seeking an advantage. I felt myself leaning, hedging, and contorting to fit the mold my elders and those with more money, resources, and experience were asking me to do to gain their favor.

    Sick system for sure. Very sick.

    Thanks!

    • Replies: @Talha
  305. @Shouting Thomas

    Since Israel Firsters can no longer make convincing arguments in support of the Zionist enterprise, having failed to show international law is on their side and having long ago lost all arguments about fairness (“equity”), all that remains is the ad hominem attack. And in Congress and the media, the brute force of money and intimidation.

  306. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    I remember watching the first Bourne film with my wife and distinctly remembering one scene near the end. The main character has basically shot up the last assassin sent to kill him – both of them being part of a “super-soldier” program. As the would-be-assassin is dying, he looks at his wounds and says; “Look at this, look at what they make you give.”

    The man who wrote that article may have ended up with a dead soul and saying the same thing had he “made it”.

    Peace.

  307. bj says:

    The thing that has always puzzled me in regard to that illegitimate country is how the hell they got what seems like complete control of the USA? Are the Banks all powerful? How can we be free?
    Anyone care to tell me?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  308. renfro says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    It’s the role that scripture/christian and old testament thought played in establishing the country, that to dismiss scripture is to miss its impact on our identity as a nation

    But it didn’t. Quit reading your bible and read history.

    Let me see if I can make you understand this….I realize chances are slim since you are as you say a bible thumper..but I’ll try.

    First, without Jefferson (and most of others)there would have been no separation of church and state…hence we would have been a very different kind of nation.. …a religious nation of whatever religion could be enforced or claim title to it.

    Second, regardless of whatever religious identity of the individual founders or which ones were Old Testament believers when the constitution was written it did not incorporate the Old Testament or any of its beliefs….quite the opposite. One good example of that was the Old Testament ..’visiting the sins of the fathers on his children’ was anathema to the founders and the national principles.

    Third, Jefferson believed in God and Jesus .. but he did not believe in religion as a system or an organization….particularly for governing…and he overcame those who did when it came to the national identity.

    Jefferson’s case against it was the different religions and even the sects of Christianity at the time,…..as it would cause the same ills and abuses in the new nation as it caused in the old Europe they all came from.
    Jefferson was a ‘educated gentleman’ who up held a secular code of conduct…..but he believed that religion…..especially the ‘do unto others’ teachings of Jesus would serve as a moral code of conduct for all classes of citizens of the emerging nation…to ensure a more harmonious society than found in Europe.
    To be blunt Jefferson believed that when God created men he gave them moral sense…..some men having less than others….and religion might keep those having less in check due to a God believing society.

    Jefferson who was really the architect of American identity in the constitution actually said the old testament was vile and primitive.

    I am aware that some people and groups, mainly the Jews, push the myths of how the Old Testament played a part in America’s founding.
    It didn’t…..there were some old testament thumpers but they had zero effect or impact on the actual forming of the nation.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @renfro
    , @EliteCommInc.
  309. renfro says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Look you may fool others with your meaningless blather, but you do not fool myself, as I am aware of what a vacuous clown you are.

    I find Jacques to be a much more interesting and intelligent commenter than you are.
    You’re boring and insulting to all here.
    I understand that braggarts and bullies really suffer from a inferiority complex ….and not getting any respect or admiration from the people in their lives they go online to sites like this to vent their anger at being ignored in real life.
    But we’re all tired of it.
    Go away.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    , @Kolo
  310. Art says:
    @Rich

    Whether or not 6 million died, or if Hitler was actually the High Rabbi of Zion, Jews aren’t renting trucks to run us over or planting bombs trying to kill us.

    Jew actions brought 9/11 to America. They started this epic conflict, (other than the MIC) – they are the only winners – end of story.

    They must account for this.

    Think Peace — Art

  311. @anonymous

    Not at all. i use the internet all the time. But then, I am confident that what I read coming from sites such as the biblegateway or biblestudy and others are fairly clean translations, but most importantly, they provide a volume of alternatives: KJV, NKJV, NIV, INIV, NAB, NASB, etc. a host of translations by which to compare and then of course, my own. I do not pretend to be a scholar, or anything close to it. I don’t read scripture anywhere near enough and the internet has been a boon for making scripture available to ore and more — that is a true gift.

    I should say, when reading commentary of scripture one should be careful.

    For example in the case of Dinah and lot — the comments/translations made in reference to support and their relation to Israel were completely contrary to any translation from multiple versions — that I would call them completely incorrect.

    To be clear: there is plenty of leeway for meaning variation — no question. And I make no contend that only this bible is from God — that one is not.

    But if you claim that Jacob told his daughter to seduce someone and no reference in scripture gentile or Hebrew of any translation notes as much — or says the opposite, I might be bold enough to say — that is an incorrect translation or that is incorrect. Normally, I might say, I am unfamiliar with translation. In this case the contents provided were so far different, that I challenged their veracity.
    Understanding scripture is tricky sometimes/often depending on the context and nature of the discussion (in my view).

    And in the case of end times prophecy, revelation . . the proper place of Israel in the lives of christians — I’d like to think I tread lightly as with nearly all scripture. These particular renderings were clearly off the mark.

  312. @bj

    The thing that has always puzzled me in regard to that illegitimate country is how the hell they got what seems like complete control of the USA? Are the Banks all powerful?

    One could write a book on that, but the very short answer is “mafia like tactics.”

    They stop at nothing to get people into key positions in government and business. To really understand how they operate, one would have to have been in a business targeted by them. They are slick and subtle and they pervert everything they touch. Even the concept of freedom is subverted and used against the mark.

    A good read is.:

    The widely praised and meticulously researched book that reveals the story of how, for fifty years, superlawyer Sidney Korshak and the nefarious Chicago Outfit pulled the strings of American business, politics, and society.

    https://www.amazon.com/Supermob-Korshak-Criminal-Associates-Americas/dp/1596912111?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1596912111

    As for your question about the banks, the short answer is, “yes.” Money talks and you’d be surprised at how little it takes and the money industry is so corrupt that few can believe it.

  313. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    @There are some things in the narrative which are very solid and certain details which are fuzzy.

    They are all fuzzy because there is no truth in any. Not that there is any in the Quran.
    All hadiths convey the ridiculous claim that Jesus would become a Muslim. Maybe not all say bluntly that Jesus would ‘smash the crosses and kill the pigs’ and punish those who make him a god as the Quran says (“Lo!whoso ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo!Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve”).

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Dan Herman
  314. @renfro

    I think your response is a laugh.

    First you contend that scripture had no roll in how the country was shaped. And then you proceed to defend the contention with a treatise about Thomas Jefferson and his rendering of scripture. That tells me that Pres Jefferson was well versed in scripture and it’s likely given what is on the table scripture influence his politics. And it did so even if he didn’t believe that Jesus was god , performed miracle or rose from the dead.

    you are making two errors.

    1. You are confusing a discussion about the role of scripture with whether or not said founders believed such and such.

    2. You are again attacking an argument with a response that is different than i posit. It’s subject matter is about faith, but it import is wholly different.

    of course the founders did not literally use biblical texts in writing the Constitution. And of course the founders held an array of beliefs about god, Jesus, the holy Spirit, and scripture OT and NT. That really is not my contention, but each was schooled on scripture OT and NT and could speak knowledgeably about the same. Understand the Bible was part and parcel to their classical education, whether they were Catholics, Lutherans or Quakers.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/christian-quotes-of-the-founding-fathers-700789

    The founders were English, I will leave it to you to take a look at their violent history over the issue of religion. There’s a reason there’s a King James Bible. i love the use of pres Jefferson because he makes my point quite poignantly. Laugh — there’s a reason why he made those comments about the OT — he actually studied it. And because religious battles so colored english life — the contention to prevent the federal government from enforcing any religious — on the population was set in ink —

    Because they were well acquainted just how volatile, enforcing a set religious beliefs could be set aflame over various interpretations of scripture.

    Now certainly, there are other influences, but a look at religious violence by the crown and non crown actors over biblical belief — was not intellectual, but experientil.

    https://gospelway.com/government/continental_congress.php

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @renfro
  315. http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/law/10_commandments-did_you_know.htm

    At no time do I say that the constitution is founded on scripture. I think one might be able to make a case – but that would be harder to accomplish than acknowledging what in my view is obvious –

    So the statement that lots of anyone says the country was “built on the ten commandments” does so isn’t really relevant. But it’s obvious that bible belief and practice is interwoven into the very fabric of who we are as a nation. And christianity was a primary source of influence.

    when the Jehovah’s witnesses challenged military service, the communities in which they lived were savagely attacked — because in the mind of most scripture’s call to obedience was also expected — and among christians this scriptural admonition is why the term “God and country” is common place.

  316. Art says:
    @Talha

    Rendell asked me if I’ve been to Israel. I said I have not. The bundler immediately chimed in, ‘Well, we need to get you over there because it would make it a helluva lot easier to raise money for you.’

    Talha,

    That is totally disgusting! Money is the route of evil.

    It must be America for America – not – America for Israel.

    We must ostracize the “For Israel” types.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @Talha
  317. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Hey Seraphim,

    Whoa – more opinions!!! You are like opinion-clearance-warehouse up in this joint!

    But yes, like Christians believe, he will come back to set things straight – don’t get in his way.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  318. @Dan Herman

    Ask any parent anywhere if it’s important to them or not that their children travel to and from school safely.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Dan Herman
  319. Talha says:
    @Art

    Hey Art,

    Yeah, I hope more people like that man open up about their experience in politics and make it wider known how sleazy it is.

    “Mothers, don’t let your babies grow up to be politicians”

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  320. Art says:
    @headrick

    Here is a what-if. What if the US cultural and political center cast Christianity to the curb,
    and what if Russia picked it up an put it on the mantle again? What then would happen to
    the loyalty of Christians in the US, the ones that knew about it anyway?

    Russia in Syria, helped Christian – US government in Syria, helped the Wahhabist and Zionists.

    No question – I favor and am grateful to the Russians in this matter.

    Think Peace — Art

  321. Seraphim says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Jefferson massacred the NT, by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus, to bring them to the comprehension of his limited capacities of understanding. “The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus Himself are within the comprehension of a child”. His conceptions about Christianity are stupefying, but were not at variance with the general tenets of Protestantism. He was an IYI (intellectual yet idiot), that kind of semi-erudite who thinks he is an erudite.
    “The IYI pathologizes others for doing things he doesn’t understand without ever realizing it is his understanding that may be limited. He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests, particularly if they are “red necks” or English non-crisp-vowel class who voted for Brexit”, to quote Nassim Nicholas Taleb. WASPs in this case.

  322. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Christians do not believe that the Christ will come to make everybody Muslims and then to be buried next to Mahomed!
    They believe that the Christ will come to judge the living and the dead and throw “the devil who had deceived them into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever”.
    They believe that the ‘false prophet’ (no pbuh) is already there! They know who he is (and these are not ‘opinions’):
    “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus, that spirit is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world” (1 John 4:1-3).
    “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also (1 John 2:22-23).
    Your Isa denies the Son, he is not the Jesus of the Christians, he is the Antichrist!

    • Replies: @Talha
  323. renfro says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    That tells me that Pres Jefferson was well versed in scripture and it’s likely given what is on the table scripture influence his politics. And it did so even if he didn’t believe that Jesus was god , performed miracle or rose from the dead.

    You originally claimed the founders were well versed in the scriptures as if that had an impact on the founding thought or documents.
    It does not matter how well versed they were—it did not end up as part of how americawas constructed.

    you are making two errors.

    1. You are confusing a discussion about the role of scripture with whether or not said founders believed such and such.

    2. You are again attacking an argument with a response that is different than i posit. It’s subject matter is about faith, but it import is wholly different.

    I confused nothing—your claim was that the Old Testament influenced the founders and founding.
    I offered you ample proof from the horses mouth that it did not

    of course the founders did not literally use biblical texts in writing the Constitution. And of course the founders held an array of beliefs about god, Jesus, the holy Spirit, and scripture OT and NT. That really is not my contention, but each was schooled on scripture OT and NT and could speak knowledgeably about the same. Understand the Bible was part and parcel to their classical education, whether they were Catholics, Lutherans or Quakers

    .

    So what if they were schooled in the scriptures? They were more schooled in the turbulent history of Europe—that is why they rejected notions of this country being built or influenced by religion.

    I have encountered people like you before who are so obsessed with the bible and religion that they try to make everything that ever happened center around it. They are like teachers who knowing nothing else see the world thru the narrow prism of their own small class room, like carpenters who think the answer is always a nail. When all you know or want to know is one thing and its all based on what you want to believe you are incapable of reason and logic…your faith is your mental firewall.

    As I said in the beginning I didn’t think it was worth while to try and engage a religious fanatic, especially the Old Testament variety. But I wasted some time and gave it a go.

  324. RobinG says:

    “Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God….”

    No too self-serving, lol.

    • Replies: @Talha
  325. renfro says:

    Astrophysicist Stephen Hawking claimed that when physicists find the theory he and his colleagues are looking for – a so-called “theory of everything” – then they will have seen into “the mind of God”.

    On the other side, a lot of people with 1/2 the IQ of the best minds in the universe claim they know God because they read a book whose author is unknown and most of which in the Old Testament a large part of it was written 300 years after the events it describes.

    So is it any wonder that some of us end up rolling our eyes back in our heads at all the followers of the bible.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  326. @Seraphim

    @Talha, “There are some things in the narrative which are very solid and certain details which are fuzzy.”

    They are all fuzzy because there is no truth in any.

    Thanks for setting the record straight. The Muslim friend was from Saudi Arabia. He was a very devout Wahhabi, and since Talha was quoting from the Orthodox Sunni, I wanted to see who is telling the truth.

    It appears the Wahhabi was telling the truth.

    • LOL: Talha
  327. @NoseytheDuke

    Ask any parent anywhere if it’s important to them or not that their children travel to and from school safely.

    I have upmost respect for Mr. Orkoski. I like his comments, and since he was missing his friend S2C, my comment was in this respect.

    • Replies: @iffen
  328. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    More opinions!!! Yaaay!!!

    Your Isa denies the Son, he is not the Jesus of the Christians, he is the Antichrist

    No problem, remember to tell him that when he arrives…also, stamp your foot really hard when you do and cross your arms.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  329. iffen says:
    @Dan Herman

    since he was missing his friend S2C, my comment was in this respect.

    Yeah, Woodchuck, who’s the orphan now?

  330. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    Hey RobinG,

    Funny thing is, Muslims don’t deny any of that. In fact we believe you have to acknowledge the Son of Mary (pbuh) as the Christ (aka Messiah) came in the flesh and that he is from God. Also anyone who denies the son (not Son) has no chance with the Father. It’s all in how you interpret the words. We simply disagree with how they are interpreted (well, also the veracity- but that’s a different subject). This is one of the reasons the vast majority of converts into Islam are former Christians; around 75% according to a recent Pew survey I read.

    But hey, it’s a free country – people gonna do their thang!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Dan Herman
  331. @renfro

    1. I have no intention of stepping away from tat claim and nothing I have stated since contradicts that.

    2. Uhh you offered Pres Jefferson position — and i have no arguments with that. But to suggest that his dismissal of the validity of the OT means that it not influence his thinking is contradicted by the example you gave and his constant reference to scripture reinforces my point about scripture overall. Seems presumptuous to suggest he wasn’t schooled or influenced by a text he omitted because he disagreed with so much of of it.

    3. No short changing, I indicated and remain that the founders were well versed in scripture as the bible was part of classic education. I stand by that contentions

    http://www.increasinglearning.com/the-christian-belief-of-james-madison.html

    4. Nice try. I make that point on several levels relating to Great Britain’s history as well as stating that had other influences. I am not discounting: Locke, Rousseau, Mill, the Greeks, Romans etc. I think if you consider the reality of applied learning, then you can take some of the edge off your concern. To be knowledgeable about any particular subject does not require that you agree, nor does it mean, that knowledge doesn’t influence the way you approach any issue. i wok among secular communities, i don’t go in throwing scripture around, but it influences the way I think and the way i approach to life. just because my lectures or speaking engagements don’t cite scripture and even on occasion avoid it — is not a reflection that it does impact my approach. Clearly, everything you more about Pres Jefferson on this question confirms scripture was an issue and his omitting the OT suggests, that influenced even more – despite his negative response. well, your reference to “So what?” is progress. If you claim to be a conservative, it’s probably a good idea to have some form understanding on issues faith, maybe conviction is probably a better word a better word. Note: I am do refernce scripture — and do so freely — but certainly noye a rote practice.

    http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/pa-heritage/religion-early-politics-benjamin-franklin.html

    http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/john-hancock-facts.html

    http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/72/Letter_from_John_Adams_to_Thomas_Jefferson_1.html

    http://www.wrs.edu/Materials_for_Web_Site/Bulletin_inserts/John_Witherspoon_bulletin.pdf

    Every founder and I would contend after a brief look at backgrounds of the signers — chritianity was the primary influence — that means scripture.

    4. If the topic is about faith than yo u had better expect some people will speak on that matter — If you decide to single out an issue about faith in a conversation that has a number of positions, then the response will be to your press —

    7. Faith is a spiritual firewall, perhaps an ethical or moral firewall, but hardly a mental firewall. Faith doesn’t change the fact that James Madison was the primary author and guide with respect to writing the constitution. As for Thomas Jefferson, despite his dislike of the OT he is surrounded and inundated by men who differ with his views.

    8. Our entire welfare system is predicated on charity as understood from scripture. I find it strange that you skip to the question of religion and state struggles and miss what the issues were in relations to scripture. The beginning of the end started with Henry the Eighth and the meaning of divorce in relationship to the church. Note, in churches that I have visited — we didn’t cover the founders and faith, nor the country and scripture. I have no issue taking in more history , but if I had not spent time in scripture I wouldn’t have much in the was of understanding it impact on who we are.

    I am overstating the point here. Just because every word out of Henry lee’s moth was not scripture in government documents, it’s pretty the founders found it vital in terms of the character of the country. One need not be a christian to be inundated by the impact of its beliefs and consequently scripture.

    I would that I was fanatical. But your final complaint is to my state of mind, I will assume that we have come to a conclusion.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Sam Shama
  332. iffen says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    From Wiki:

    … Franklin chose an allegorical scene from Exodus, described in his notes as “Moses standing on the Shore, and extending his Hand over the Sea, thereby causing the same to overwhelm Pharaoh who is sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his Head and a Sword in his Hand. Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Clouds reaching to Moses, to express that he acts by Command of the Deity.” Motto, “Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God.” Jefferson suggested a depiction of the Children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night for the front of the seal; …

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States

  333. @renfro

    Actually, the word bible means a collection of books rather than being just one and I’ve read there are around 40 or 50 authors. I believe much of it was written after the Babylonian captivity making the gap between events and writing even greater than what you pointed out. Of course there’s many more scriptures that were omitted too, presumably because they didn’t fit the political narrative that was being formulated at the time of compilation.

  334. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    @It’s all in how you interpret the words. We simply disagree with how they are interpreted (well, also the veracity)

    Yes, you interpret them wrongly. We don’t ‘simply’ disagree, we fundamentally disagree. Your verbal contortions about the Son of Mary, son (not Son) who ‘is from God’ have no relation whatsoever with the Jesus Christ of the Christians.
    Christ is the Son of God as Mary was announced by the angel Gabriel (who is not the jinn Jibril who possessed Mahomed!). The Gospels which (should I remind you?) predate Mahomed by six hundred years tell us:

    “26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 , And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:26-35).

    And as the Father revealed to Peter:
    “16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 16:16-17).

    ” 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him” (John 1:17-18).

    Islam doesn’t know the Father.

  335. @renfro

    You didn’t read my comment, apparently. I said that jake isn’t “an anti-white troll”. Your boy Dave jumped to the conclusion that the guy he was responding to is anti-white. Jake is, apparently, a nutcase, but he’s not anti-white. You jumped to the conclusion that I can’t see that Jake is nuts. I saw that the first time he replied to one of my comments.

    Anyway, most of us here have personal agendas. Those who don’t aren’t very interesting.

    • Replies: @renfro
  336. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    There are right opinions and wrong opinions. Orthodoxy (from Greek ορθοδοξία, orthodoxía – “right opinion”, correct belief). In relation to Christianity, “conforming to the Christian faith as represented in the creeds of the early Church”. More exactly opinions conforming to the Truth revealed by the Christ.
    Islam’s opinions about Christianity are ‘wrong opinions’, ‘cacodoxy’. They are not conforming to the Truth revealed by the Christ. No, Mahomed does not supersede the Christ. He was no prophet actually.

    • Replies: @Talha
  337. JNDillard says:

    Whether Pence takes over or not, Zionism is cooked, done. Stick a fork in it. What we are seeing now is the chicken still running around after its head has been cut off. The decapitation occurred with the destruction of the Yinon plan by Russia, Iran, Assad, and Hezbollah. Rather than reacting, the world needs to follow Napoleon’s sage advice, as Putin is doing: “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake,” or in this case, self-destructing.

    • Replies: @tjm
  338. @Talha

    came in the flesh and that he is from God.

    Can you explain what do you mean by, “came in the flesh”?

    Seems to me more mambo jumbo as you are trying to pull wool over the eyes.

    Aren’t we all from god?

    • Replies: @Talha
  339. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Hey Seraphim,

    We don’t ‘simply’ disagree, we fundamentally disagree.

    Indeed, thanks again for your interpretations of your scriptures and explaining why you are still a Christian. Enlightening…

  340. Talha says:
    @Dan Herman

    Hey Dan,

    Sure. The Son of Mary (pbuh) was a real-life talking, walking human being. His birth was a miraculous one, of course, without normal means. The Quran makes clear our position in verse 3:59 that his miraculous birth without a father is like Adam’s miraculous birth without either parent.

    Aren’t we all from god?

    Correct, that is why we are all created human beings.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  341. Sowhat says:
    @Sherman

    We American Voters have always had terrible choices for leaders, who never represent the wishes of people with common sense because foreign policy resides within the carpet bag of National Security carried by the MIIC,a money sucking anti-Citizen Corporate entity that has become a behemoth with it’s madness of dismantling individual liberties while pushing The devastating American Century. Their Lost Hegemon Hegemon has not been accepted even though it’s obvious to the researcher. ANY RESEARCHER knows that the constitution was suspended long ago.
    Meanwhile, Americans are distracted with petty MSM bullsh&< and their need to sustain their cultural and economic existance, all of this has been successfully manipulated by the deeply inserted and rooted Zionists. There is little pushback and even less critical thinking in the world of the Goyim, today. And there is no room in the religious world for either.
    …DISPONDENT CHRISTIAN

  342. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Do you really believe the question between Christianity and Islam is a mere matter of opinion? That is, that you are unsure which is true and choose the one which most appeals to you?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Dan Herman
  343. tjm says:
    @Wally

    A true Jew talking…pick one of OUR choices, that is all you goy deserve!

    Washington is Zionist occupied, the only choice is to turn your back of the murderous filth!

    You dance with evil, you become evil: Zionism is pure evil

  344. tjm says:
    @JNDillard

    Zionism rules Washington/Wall Street/Hollywood/MSM, and if they are “done”, they will take us down with them.

    Zionists HATE CHRISTIANS, and get their rocks off pitting US against each other.

  345. tjm says:
    @anonymous

    What an idiotic comment…

    As long as the immoral, weak and treasonous mentality like yours exists, we will always be servants of Satan.

    You don’t pic the worse of two evils, you turn your back on them both.

    The zionist PICK BOTH candidates and know idiots like you, left or right, will make your same calculation, so no matter what we get an anti-American zionist pig.

  346. tjm says:
    @Rurik

    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Great comment

  347. Sam Shama says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Very well put, ECI. Also thanks for the reference links.

    Your post conclusively vacates those arguments intent on demonstrating the irrelevancy of the Bible/scriptures and by extension, the religious corpus of our Constitution through an appeal to Jefferson’s reservations about parts of the OT.

    The 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th paragraphs tackle what lies at the heart of the matter, usually lost on people who, – I think deliberately – attempt to skirt around it. Perhaps the truth is so vast, so close in front, that we fail to see it. It touches almost every bit of the American day.

    I’d ask the gainsayers to look at that dollar bill in their wallets for a reminder :-)

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @ChuckOrloski
  348. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Of course not – it is obvious what I think is the truth. I simply think it is unsophisticated to present arguments from one’s own scripture about why someone else is wrong on a theological point when that person doesn’t accept the validity of the source in the first place. It’s akin to me stating; Christianity is wrong because Islam says it is and here is proof from the Qur’an – it’s called circular reasoning.

    What one has to do is present their case to a neutral party (or someone on the fence) and show:
    1) One’s position is more rational or requires least leaps of faith
    2) The veracity of one’s textual sources meets criteria for reliability
    3) One’s position is a reliable and sounder interpretation of those sources

    Debating theology between two people who have already firmly taken a position doesn’t get very far honestly. Mostly a waste of time.

    As I mentioned, Pew did some surveys – they found Muslims are leaving Islam and people are coming into the Islam. The interesting part is in the details. As I said, nearly 75% of converts are from Christianity – almost everyone I have come across from a Christian background wanted a different take on Jesus (pbuh) than what Christianity has to offer. Muslims swap out to Christianity, but at a much lower rate; around 20%. Far more go agnostic or atheist.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/26/the-share-of-americans-who-leave-islam-is-offset-by-those-who-become-muslim/

    Very interesting to see which way people are going and why.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  349. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    OK, thanks for the clarification. It sounded like you were saying something I couldn’t imagine you thinking, hence the question.

    Re conversions, very interesting. I may have something more to say on that later. For now I will just note that your comparison is inexact– the number of Christians who convert to Islam is, I’ll wager, also vanishingly small compared to those who become atheist or agnostic. Like it or not (I don’t) that’s what mostly guides the West at present.

    • Replies: @Talha
  350. @Anon

    @ Talha

    Do you really believe the question between Christianity and Islam is a mere matter of opinion? That is, that you are unsure which is true and choose the one which most appeals to you?

    Talha wants to pull wool over the eyes. Either Jesus is God or not. It cannot be both as Talha keeps of saying Son/son, trying to fool us.

    Creative writing of an Orthodox Sunni.

    • Replies: @Talha
  351. Talha says:
    @Anon

    the number of Christians who convert to Islam is, I’ll wager, also vanishingly small compared to those who become atheist or agnostic

    That is correct. I was just talking about the number of people coming into Islam – and their [articular backgrounds.

    There is little doubt that atheists and agnostics are going to make the most tremendous gains. Again, according to Pew, with respect to converts (assuming current trends stay the same), they will grow the most, Christianity will bleed the most and Islam will have a moderate gain:
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/07/why-people-with-no-religion-are-projected-to-decline-as-a-share-of-the-worlds-population/

    Que sera, sera…

    Peace.

  352. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    Judea is given a seat at list of civilizations for contribution to “Religion” at the Jefferson library:

    https://www.loc.gov/resource/highsm.02071/

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  353. Talha says:
    @Dan Herman

    Hey Dan,

    Either Jesus is God or not.

    Hmmm…I don’t know why you would think I am trying to make you think that associating a partner with God is OK. If you believe he is the son of God in the sense that most Christians do, then one is not Muslim. There is no compromise on this; either you are right or we are – and the stakes are big.

    If you believe he is son of God in the metaphorical sense:
    “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.” Matt 5:9

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14142b.htm

    Then you are fine.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  354. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    Hey Talha,
    Love that picture of the dome in the LoC. We visited last year and were surprised to see quite so many biblical motifs with Hebrew inscriptions. That prompted further reading and needless to say, I was mildly astonished.

    Best

    P.S. Take a look at this Yale logo:

  355. @Sam Shama

    Sam Shama says: “Perhaps the truth is so vast, so close in front, that we fail to see it. It touches almost every bit of the American day.
    I’d ask the gainsayers to look at that dollar bill in their wallets for a reminder.

    Hi Maven,

    Above, I take a pass on looking at a ZUS dollar bill for “truth.”

    My search for truth preference goes along the Way of the Cross which a Russian Orthodox man speaking on the video (below) wears upon his chest.

    One of the nation’s greatest 20th century presidential speeches was One’s farewell address including a bone chilling warning about the M.I.C. Linked below commenter participants can learn about ZUS Secretary of “Offense” Mad Dog Mattis’s recent proclamation that “Terrorism is no longer the main defense priority” because it is now “Great Power Competition,” Russia and China.

    Brother Nathanael branded Mattis a “dog of leash” and poetically spoke, “going after prey makes Mad Dog’s day!

    Near video end, Jim Morrison and The Doors perform “The End,” a song featured in the film “Apocalyse Now.” (Zigh) The song brought back bad memories of “Best & Brightest” bygone servants of the M.I.C.

    Selah, what matter either Trump or Pence?

  356. renfro says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Anyway, most of us here have personal agendas. Those who don’t aren’t very interesting

    I have no personal agenda except the common good of the nation….that is why I am not interesting to those with personal agendas.
    Those with strictly personal agendas aren’t very interesting to me either…..they cant fathom the big picture.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  357. @renfro

    ” I understand that braggarts and bullies really suffer from an inferiority complex”

    Yeah I really feel inferior when I pick up my saxophone or flute and start blowing one Jazz/Blues solo after the other, which I am sure you are not in the position to duplicate.

    And I really feel inferior when I pick up a book written in German or Italian and am able to read it word for word, without referencing any unknown expressions, and or am able to converse in either language as the situation demands.

    And I really feel inferior when I consider my lovely wife, a retired gymnasium ( gymnasium means something entirely different in German ) teacher and marvelous singer.

    And I really feel even more so inferior when I reflect back upon my two previous marriages, once to a teutonic person of nobility a so-called “von”, and once to a medical doctor, surgeon, a german lady who since has moved to the US and practiced medicine west coast. until retirement.

    Oh I could just go on and on listing the disgusting elements of my pathetic life which has given rise to my horrible feelings of “inferiority” and self-hatred.

    “But we’re all tired of it” so you have been chosen to speak for everyone else here I assume.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, and inferior airborne trained US Army vet, plus pro jazz musician.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Rurik
    , @anonymous
  358. Truth says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Pow!

    Renfro, the ball is in your court. what have YOU accomplished?

    Don’t go soff here, it’s time for a little alpha-signaling.

    • Replies: @renfro
  359. Rurik says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    mensa boy,

    if you had the IQ of my dog, you’d know that ending your every post with that pompous self-adulation makes you look like an asshole, which is fine, I suppose, if that’s your (rather odd) agenda.

    But more to the point, it lowers the tenor of this otherwise fine site, by association.

    People might come here out of curiousity, and then read your twat-like preening, and figure this is a site for dickheads.

    I suspect that’s the main reason your little signature is so obnoxious.

    Like I said, if you had an IQ at least equal to my dog, you’d let your insights demonstrate it, without having to tell us all about it.

    Rurik ~ nine inch schlong, 167 IQ, MMA champion, welder, chess grandmaster, scholar, bar tender, hero and all around better-than-you dude.

    (but never “inferior” airborne trained)

  360. @renfro

    Several years ago the Library of Congress hosted an event focused on the correspondence between Benjamin Franklin and Gaetano Filangieri, an Italian political scientist who wrote what was claimed to be the first learned treatise answering the question, “What is a Good Law?”

    Speakers included Marcello Pera, Giannicola Sinisi, Antonin Scalia, Monica D’Agostini.

    Filangieri, and the scholars who have studied his work as well as his correspondence with Frnaklin, who paid careful attention to Filangieri’s work as he contributed to the creation of the American form of Constitutional Republic, claimed that “Christianity as it influenced the Europe” was a foundational principle for good governance. https://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=5095

    Machiavelli believed and wrote much the same thing: Machiavelli was actually deeply committed to Christian principles, but hated the corruption of the Roman Catholic papacy, which in his day was knee-deep in usurious practices as well as other curruptions such as those E Michael Jones has discussed in “Libido Dominandi” and “Barren Metal.” In other words, in Niccolo’s view, Roman Catholicism had been overly influenced by failures that all humankind shares; that Jesus sought to define as undesirable, but that Judahites actively endorsed and sought to spread/proselytize.

    In the 1300s, France’s Philip (the Fair) engaged in power struggles with the Roman pontiff over who had the right to validate whom — whether the pontiff had the right to validate secular rulers, or if secular rulers held their power independent of the blessings of Rome. Phillip won, which weakened the papacy. At the same time, Philip used his power and authority to expel Jews from France, claiming that they weakened French culture and morality.

    So don’t take either Machiavelli’s or Filangieri’s declarations in simplistic fashion: As Douglas Reed has stated forthrightly, the inclusion of the Old Testament, with its vengeful god and Abrahamic doctrine of “do it the Hebrew way or die,” should never have been included in the Christian canon.

    The fact that Jews claim “persecution” by Christians, throughout Europe and over many centuries, seems to validate the point that Christianity considered itself separate from many prevailing doctrines of Hebrew scripture. Thus, it seems reasonable to claim that that when Filangieri posits that “European civilization is based on Christianity,” that means primarily and essentially New Testament/Jesusian principles and not many or most elements from Hebrew scripture.

    If today’s ‘Christians’ — of all views and hues — considered the writings of Hebrew scripture as well as the more recent books of the New Testament as seriously as Thomas Jefferson did, rather than the comic-book version that was induced on the British by Manasseh ben Israel (Heinrich Graetz covers this quite well in his History of the Jewish People) and that was thereafter distorted and spread by the propagandistic Oxford Press, the USA today would look a lot more like Jefferson and Franklin envisioned it, and Christianity would look a lot more like Jesus intended it.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @renfro
    , @ChuckOrloski
  361. renfro says:
    @Truth

    I eat jazzmen for lunch….is my qualification

  362. renfro says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    The fact that Jews claim “persecution” by Christians, throughout Europe and over many centuries, seems to validate the point that Christianity considered itself separate from many prevailing doctrines of Hebrew scripture. Thus, it seems reasonable to claim that that when Filangieri posits that “European civilization is based on Christianity,” that means primarily and essentially New Testament/Jesusian principles and not many or most elements from Hebrew scripture

    Yep
    Judaism and Christianity got a divorce centuries ago due to irreconcilable differences.

  363. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik ~ nine inch schlong, 167 IQ, MMA champion, welder, chess grandmaster, scholar, bar tender, hero and all around better-than-you dude.

    Whoa, Rurik. There is so much we didn’t know about you… like how long your, er, …. chess resume is.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  364. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    The birth of Jesus is NOT like the creation of Adam. You again compare pears and apples.

    • Replies: @Talha
  365. @Rurik

    …well Jacques, they shoot children from rooftops for fun, and this is documented

    Uri Avnery also documents a lot of gratuitous killing, sadism and vandalism in his account of the Zionist war on Palestine.

    1948: A Soldier’s Tale

    https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1948-uri-avnery/1112160502

  366. iffen says:
    @Rurik

    figure this is a site for dickheads

    Now why?

    Why did you have to go there?

    Sixty-eight long years and still not Mensa qualified.

  367. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    The birth of Jesus is NOT like the creation of Adam.

    Sure, not completely – one had a mother…everyone knows this.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  368. @Rurik

    Like I said, if you had an IQ at least equal to my dog, you’d let your insights demonstrate it, without having to tell us all about it.

    You’d think a Menstrual would come down off his high niveau and offer some insights instead of mere insults, and amusingly simplistic ones at that.

    Nine inches, eh? Izzat soft er…never mind! ;)

    I wonder if Jazzie means airhorn qualified.

    Jacques don’t give a Sheete, IQ of a flat iron with a matching attitude. Potty trained and authentic Sterquilinus runner-up. Never married to Cloacina tho.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @iffen
  369. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Potty trained!!!! LOOOL!!! I can do my own laundry.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Rurik
  370. There’s not a single contradiction in any sentence. Simply posting a response and making the claim is not evidence.

    Be clear — explain what you claim is the change in position.

    And you comments about how this is some kind of outing makes no sense.

  371. “For I assure you and most solemnly say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke [of the pen] will pass from the Law until all things [which it foreshadows] are accomplished.”

    Christ in reference to Old Testament Law. It’s one thing to acknowledge the coming of Christ and certainly one can become a christian without ever knowing a single word of the OT. But it is complete error to claim that the two are separated — Christ makes that clear in the above as well as the Apostles that constantly reference Old testament as foundation material.

    Hebrews 1
    [ God’s Final Word: His Son ] In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. …

    paul

    _
    22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.[b] 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

    “All people are like grass,
    and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
    the grass withers and the flowers fall,
    25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.

    Peter — referencing Isaiah40
    ___

    7 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

    18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

    James in reference to Elias the OT prophet—– new Testament from the gospels to the epistles are loaded with old testament references to help preach the good news, maintain faith and encourage, reproof, etc. Christians reference the OT in the same manner as Christ and the Apostles.

    A similar example would be the way one references precursor documents to the Constitution to help understand it creation and meaning. And perhaps most predominant are the references to the prophets and prophecy concerning Christ.

    https://lifehopeandtruth.com/prophecy/prophets/prophets-of-the-bible/jesus-christ-the-prophet/

    Here is a very solid example of what I am talking about

    https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/apostlesprophetsandgovernments-GordonLindsay.pdf

    dare i say that the old testament is deeply interwoven in comprehending the history and meaning of the christian faith and practice.
    Since Christ and his Apostles constantly reference the old OT. It’s safe to say any scholars who contend otherwise are incorrect about the relationship between the two books. Further confirmation: is the provisions to the debate among scholars about the relationship, had there been none no debate would be required.

    try this on for size:

    Christ says “Before Abraham was I am.” The Jews nearly killed him for saying so. I will leave it you to find what he was referring to and why they saw the statement as blasphemous.

    Again another OT testament reference –

  372. iffen says:
    @jacques sheete

    Nine inches, eh? Izzat soft er…never mind! ;)

    Whoa, Jack. Don’t even let your mind go there man.

  373. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    @9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

    The correct translation of this passage is: sons of God (υἱοὶ Θεοῦ). Hyios has a precise meaning in Christianity:
    υἱός/hyiós – properly, a son (by birth or adoption); (figuratively) anyone sharing the same nature as their Father. For the believer, becoming a son of God begins with being reborn (adopted) by the heavenly Father – through Christ (the work of the eternal Son). In the NT, hyiós (“son”) equally refers to female believers (Gal 3:28).
    hyiós (“son”) emphasizes likeness of the believer to the heavenly Father, i.e. resembling His character more and more by living in faith (“God’s inwrought persuasions,” pístis/faith).
    hyiós (“son”) highlights the (legal) right to the Father’s inheritance, i.e. as the believer lives in conformity with the Father’s nature (purpose).

    [MORE]

    Children of God is τέκνον:
    téknon – properly, a child; (figuratively) anyone living in full dependence on the heavenly Father, i.e. fully (willingly) relying upon the Lord in glad submission. This prompts God to transform them into His likeness.
    téknon (“a child living in willing dependence”) illustrates how we must all live in utter dependence upon the Lord (moment-by-moment), drawing guidance (care, nurture) from our heavenly Father. (téknon) emphasizes the childlike (not childish) attitude of heart that willingly (gladly) submits to the Father’s plan. We profoundly learn this as we are receptive to Christ speaking His rhēma-word within to impart faith.

    Not all are ‘children of God’. We become children of God and sons of God through Christ:

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.”9 the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth” (John 1:1-14).

    “14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God (υἱοὶ Θεοῦ). 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God (τέκνα Θεοῦ): 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” (Rom 8:14-17).

    The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, the life giving Spirit, the third person of the Holy Trinity, the Comforter, Counselor, Advocate (παράκλητος), the Spirit of Truth sent by the Father to be forever with his children and guide them:
    “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him… 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you” (John 14:16-27).

    “12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you” (John 16:12-15).

    The disciples received the Comforter – the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4. The Comforter was now “in” the disciples and He remained “in” them from then on and taught them — just as Jesus had said He would. Of course he was not speaking of any ‘Ahmed’/Mahomed as the Muslims so obstinately insist. Indeed, Mahomed was nowhere foretold. Muslims deceive themselves. But they cannot deceive but a few of us, however much they squeeze and torture and falsify the Christian Scriptures to extract meanings that there are not there. There are not the blind who should guide those who see the Light. That explains the permanent furious frustration of the Muslims with the Christians.

  374. @Talha

    Potty trained!!!! LOOOL!!! I can do my own laundry.

    Yeah, I too. Well, I can change me own diapers at least! ;)

  375. Not this American. Read Romans 2:28-9 about real Jews with changed hearts and Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 about false Jews, the synagogue of Satan. I pray for Christ’s return and the destruction of all evil.

  376. @SolontoCroesus

    Hi SolontoCroesus,

    Appreciated your comment, it brought back fond memories of St. Thomas Aquinas and his trademark, “Faith seeking understanding.”

    As previously mentioned, I am a life long member of the eastern Byzantine Catholic Church. Have studied classic works of philosophy & theology, but at this oddly detoured comment-thread juncture, I am compelled to recommend a cool scientific book written by Carl Sagan titled “A Demon Haunted World.”

    I do not believe that the Bishop of Scranton would endorse my endorsement, but this is (!) the U.R. and not the 700 Club forum.

    So linked below is a fascinating “You Tube” link which features Jewish born Mr. Sagan’s delivery of a scientific method to be employed when evaluating albeit supernatural experiences which otherwise could provoke WEIRD & possibly dangerous spiritual reactions in especially confused Amerikans, for one example, iffen.

    Selah Carl Sagan compels you… !

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  377. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Your sarcasm is (like all your sarcasms) misplaced. You are as usual too clever by half.
    Of course, you confuse (like all Muslims) the Begetting of the “one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten [γεννηθέντα] of the Father before all worlds (æons)[τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father”, with the ‘bringing forth’ [τέξεται δὲ υἱὸν] of the God-Man Jesus Christ “who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man [σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα]“.

    The Scriptures make a difference between the ‘begetting’ [γεννηθέντα, from γίνομαι - properly, to emerge, become, transitioning from one point (realm, condition) to another; to come into being/manifestation implying motion, movement, or growth", used for God's actions as emerging from eternity and becoming (showing themselves) in time (physical space)] in Eternity of the Word who “was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning”, and the ‘birth’ [τέξεται, from τίκτω, the Septuagint translation for יָלַד; to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed); properly, of women giving birth] of Jesus Christ in this world (the Word made flesh).

    Adam was “formed [ ἔπλασεν] of the dust of the earth (like a potter), and breathed upon his face the breath of life, and the man became a living soul”, “made” [ἐποίησεν] (like an artisan makes things) according to the image of God he made him, male and female he made them”. God made the man with his own hands: “Thy hands have made me, and fashioned me: instruct me, that I may learn thy commandments” (Psalm 118:73). The ‘Zabur of Dawud’ is a revealed ‘book’ even for Muslims, even if they understood little (if anything) from it.

    Oh, and yes ‘one had a mother’ who is appropriately called the ‘Mother of God’ [Theotokos, Μήτηρ Θεοῦ, Mater Dei, Dei Genetrix or Deipara, Blessed Mother, ܝܳܠܕܰܬ ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ‎, translit. Yoldath Alloho, Богородица, Матерь Божия, Бого матерь, Gottesgebärerin]. This title was in use long before the jinn Jibril ‘informed’ that she was only the sister of Moses Maryam, the mother of Isa!

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Dan Herman
  378. RobinG says:

    Very dystopian view of violent, repressive ["Christian"] future US, which hopefully can be averted. (This interview is one year old, which accounts for mention of Bannon having Trump’s ear.)

    Empire Files: Chris Hedges & Abby Martin – Trump, Fascism & the Christian Right

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Rurik
  379. @renfro

    Well, I hafta admit that your personal agenda sounds better than mine. Mine is to have a good time reading and posting comments. Some moderators have banned me for trying to be humorous while stating my view, which they conclude is trolling just because people get their drawers in a wad and cuss me out. ;-)

  380. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Hey Seraphim,

    The reason I’m keeping my replies curt are because I am not interested in getting into a theological debate for the reasons I outlined in, but you don’t seem to get the point. I was asked a question by Dan and answered and clarified and what I said to RobinG was in terms of a phrase and whether a Muslim could believe that or not if it is interpreted correctly.

    I was not citing Matthew because I think it is actually what Jesus (pbuh) said, but rather to show that language can be used in religious literature figuratively – which you confirmed. Further, the Catholic source I cited also states:
    “The title “son of God” is frequent in the Old Testament. The word “son” was employed among the Semites to signify not only filiation, but other close connexion or intimate relationship….The leaders of the people, kings, princes, judges, as holding authority from God, were called sons of God. The theocratic king as lieutenant of God, and especially when he was providentially selected to be a type of the Messias, was honoured with the title “Son of God”. But the Messias, the Chosen One, the Elect of God, was par excellence called the Son of God (Ps. ii, 7).”

    I could have saved you a whole lot of time, but you made my job a little easier to explain by what you wrote. I know some Muslims love to delve into the Bible to derive justifications for Islam, but that approach never made sense to me since it fails at an epistemological level. For the following reasons:
    1) We aren’t even sure if the Bible is correctly transmitted – apart from the fact that many books of the gospel have no known author, modern scriptural studies have found interpolations in the text – this is not our contention, but that of believing Christian scholars. It makes no sense to me to try to map out coordinates in something that is not reliable.
    2) Assuming it is correctly transmitted, the only thing of concern to us are the words of the Son of Mary (pbuh) – which, as you pointed out are transmitted in Greek, not his original tongue. Did he speak some Greek? There is some speculation he did in certain instances since many people were able to converse for day to day needs in it, but did he say those very statements in Greek or his native tongue? Nobody knows. If they are not his direct words, they are someone else’s – and thus irrelevant to us.
    3) You bring up the Septuagint which is (again) a Greek translation of the original Hebrew undertaken by a number of unknown Jewish men under some Greek magistrate. Nobody knows who they were or their qualifications – this also brings up the reliability of the transmitted text of the Torah – which is another subject.
    4) You cite Galatians – again, assuming it is transmitted correctly, it is from Paul – you should know by now that his words don’t mean much for us.

    None of these things would pass muster for even the weakest level of hadith; no chains of transmission, not in original language, unknown authorship, etc. Which is why we simply acknowledge the possible reliability (because it could be simply coincidence) of only that which is congruent with the Qur’an. With the Qur’an, it isn’t even considered transmitted correctly unless it is phonetically sound according to one of the seven recited variants. Nobody knows how Koine Greek was pronounced at the time because nobody was paying attention.

    For us to derive aspects of belief – something one has to have conviction in – it has to be at the highest level of authentication; it needs to be a mutawatir (mass-transmitted) report, meaning either the Qur’an or mutawatir hadith (of which there are not that many).

    As I explained to the other person, you keep on using circular logic – Bible to justify belief according to the Bible. That’s great for people who agree with your baseline assumptions; knock yourself out.

    Now, I think I’ve given enough reasons to explain why a theological debate is not only not interesting (but fairly useless) to me.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  381. geokat62 says:

    Latest developments on The Memo front:

    In this highly recommended 30 minute interview with Joe diGenova, the former Special Counsel who went after both the Teamsters and former NY Governor Elliot Spitzer, a very clear picture of collusion is painted between the Obama administration, the FBI, the Clinton campaign and opposition research firm Fusion GPS.

    From the Daily Caller:

    “The FBI used to spy on Russians. This time they spied on us. What this story is about – a brazen plot to exonerate Hillary Clinton from a clear violation of the law with regard to the way she handled classified information with her classified server. Absolutely a crime, absolutely a felony. It’s about finding out why – as the Inspector General is doing at the department of justice – why Comey and the senior DOJ officials conducted a fake criminal investigation of Hillary Clinton. Followed none of the regular rules, gave her every break in the book, immunized all kinds of people, allowed the destruction of evidence, no grand jury, no subpoenas, no search warrant. That’s not an investigation, that’s a Potemkin village. It’s a farce.

    And everybody knew it was a farce. The problem was, she didn’t win. And because she didn’t win, the farce became a very serious opera. It wasn’t a comic opera anymore, it was a tragic opera. And she was going to be the focus.

    What this is about, this is about a lavabo, a cleansing of FBI and the upper echelons of the Department of Justice.

    We’re going to discover that the Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, her deputy Sally Yates, the head of the national security division John Carlin, Bruce Ohr and other senior DOJ officials, and regrettably, lying attorneys. People who were senior career civil servants violated the law, perhaps committed crimes, and covered up crimes by a presidential candidate – but more than that, they tried to frame an incoming president with a false Russian conspiracy that never existed, and they knew it, and they plotted to ruin him as a candidate and then destroy him as a president. That’s why this is important. That’s why connecting the dots is important.” – Joe diGenova, former Special Counsel

    DiGenova condemned the FBI for working so closely with the controversial Fusion GPS, a political hit squad paid by the DNC and Clinton campaign to create and spread the discredited Steele dossier about President Donald Trump. Without a justifiable law enforcement or national security reason, he says, the FBI “created false facts so that they could get surveillance warrants. Those are all crimes.” He adds, using official FISA-702 “queries” and surveillance was done “to create a false case against a candidate, and then a president.” – Daily Caller

    During the interview, DiGenova holds up and references a previously unreported and heavily redacted 99-page FISA court opinion from April, 2017, which “describes systematic and on-going violations of the law [by the FBI and their contractors using unauthorized disclosures of raw intelligence on Americans]. This is stunning stuff.”

    NSA Admiral Mike Rodgers: An American Hero

    diGenova also discusses the immense risks taken by retiring NSA director, Mike Rogers – who briefed Trump on Nov. 7, 2016 about the Obama administration’s surveillance of the Trump team. The next day, the Presidental transition team was moved out of Trump tower and into the president-elect’s Bedminster, NJ golf course until they could sweep for bugs.

    Uranium One and other matters

    Also discussed in the interview are the Uranium One scandal, Mueller’s “tainted” probe, and the consequences of the Democrats regaining control in the November midterms – which would most certainly lead to an effort to impeach Trump.

    “It’s important for the House to complete its work now,” says diGenova.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-21/brazen-plot-exonerate-hillary-clinton-and-frame-trump-unraveling-says-former-fed

  382. geokat62 says:

    Just finished reading a very interesting article on the Jewish daily, The Forward:

    https://forward.com/scribe/393465/netanyahus-policies-threaten-israel-and-american-jews/?attribution=home-top-story-8-headline

    It’s provocative title caught my eye: Netanyahu’s Policies Threaten Israel — And American Jews

    The author expressed concerns about where things were heading:

    But today, I fear that the special relationship between the United States and Israel is at risk. And I fear that the wellbeing of American Jews is endangered as it hasn’t been since the McCarthy period, when close to a quarter of Americans believed that “most Jews are Communists.”

    He even identified some of the risks the community has been facing and will continue to face:

    Public calls by Israeli politicians for American Jews to oppose our own leadership— as was the case when Prime Minister Netanyahu asked us to contest the Iran deal negotiated by the Obama administration — will increase resentment among Americans and American Jews in particular. The traditional Israeli respect for US Jews’ concerns of being accused of double loyalty (as US citizens and Israel supporters) is now endangered as Israel’s leaders ask us to choose sides.

    Rather than seeking to shift the special relationship to a more normal footing, however, he wishes to salvage it, somehow:

    We must promote programs and policies that recognize the dangerous threats to our interests, as Americans, American Jews and lovers of Israel, before it’s too late.

    It seems the desire to have one’s cake and it it too is difficult to suppress.

  383. @RobinG

    What a stupid interview. Hedges has outlived his portfolio; his cognitive map was laid out by zionquest.

    He claimed in the course of the interview that one has to consider the “historical” context to see the difference between Italian fascism and German fascism, but he does not have a fricking clue what National Socialism stood for; how National Socialism differed radically from Italian Fascism; how both differ by almost every metric from the Christian Right.

    He’s a wordsmith but can’t find any better way to describe and characterize the Christian Right than by resorting to sure-to-get-your-attention-and-keep-(((publishers))) happy, oh, and the royalties flowing — than by using the propagandized televised Hollywoodized version of WWII.

    Dig a little deeper, Chris.

    Put these on flashcards, Chris, and get your head out of the mainstream propaganda matrix and join the world of critical thinking and distinguishing definition.

    bad

    adjective
    1.
    of poor quality or a low standard.
    “a bad diet”
    synonyms: substandard, poor, inferior, second-rate, second-class, unsatisfactory, inadequate, unacceptable, not up to scratch, not up to par, deficient, imperfect, defective, faulty, shoddy, amateurish, careless, negligent, miserable, sorry; incompetent, inept, inexpert, ineffectual; awful, atrocious, appalling, execrable, deplorable, terrible, abysmal; informalcrummy, rotten, godawful, pathetic, useless, woeful, bum, lousy, not up to snuff
    “bad workmanship”
    not appropriate in a particular situation.
    “morning was a bad time to ask Andy about anything”
    synonyms: inauspicious, unfavorable, inopportune, unpropitious, unfortunate, disadvantageous, adverse, inappropriate, unsuitable, untoward
    “a bad time to arrive”
    2.
    not such as to be hoped for or desired; unpleasant or unwelcome.
    “bad weather”
    synonyms: unpleasant, disagreeable, unwelcome; unfortunate, unlucky, unfavorable; terrible, dreadful, awful, grim, distressing
    “bad news”
    (of something causing pain, danger, or other unwelcome consequences) severe or serious.
    “bad headaches”
    synonyms: severe, serious, grave, critical, acute; formalgrievous
    “a bad accident”
    having a harmful effect on.
    “soap was bad for his face”
    synonyms: harmful, damaging, detrimental, injurious, hurtful, inimical, destructive, ruinous, deleterious; unhealthy, unwholesome
    “the alcohol had a really bad effect on me”
    3.
    failing to conform to standards of moral virtue or acceptable conduct.
    “the bad guys”
    synonyms: wicked, evil, sinful, immoral, morally wrong, corrupt, base, black-hearted, reprobate, amoral; criminal, villainous, nefarious, iniquitous, dishonest, dishonorable, unscrupulous, unprincipled; informalcrooked, dirty; dateddastardly
    “the bad guys”
    4.
    (of a part of the body) injured, diseased, or painful.
    “a bad back”
    synonyms: injured, wounded, diseased; datedgame
    “a bad knee”
    5.
    (of food) decayed; putrid.
    “everything in the fridge went bad”
    synonyms: rotten, decayed, decomposed, decomposing, putrid, putrefied, off, moldy; sour, spoiled, rancid, rank, unfit for human consumption; addled; skunky
    “the meat’s bad”
    6.
    regretful, guilty, or ashamed about something.
    “she feels bad about ending their engagement”
    synonyms: guilty, conscience-stricken, remorseful, guilt-ridden, ashamed, contrite, sorry, full of regret, regretful, shamefaced
    “I felt bad about leaving them”
    7.
    worthless; not valid.
    “he ran up 87 bad checks”
    synonyms: invalid, worthless; counterfeit, fake, false, bogus, fraudulent; informalphony, dud
    “a bad check”

    —-

    e·vil
    ˈēvəl
    adjective
    1.
    profoundly immoral and malevolent.
    “his evil deeds”
    synonyms: wicked, bad, wrong, immoral, sinful, foul, vile, dishonorable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, reprobate, villainous, nefarious, vicious, malicious; malevolent, sinister, demonic, devilish, diabolical, fiendish, dark; monstrous, shocking, despicable, atrocious, heinous, odious, contemptible, horrible, execrable; informallowdown, dirty
    “an evil deed”
    harmful or tending to harm.
    “the evil effects of high taxes”
    synonyms: cruel, mischievous, pernicious, malignant, malign, baleful, vicious; destructive, harmful, hurtful, injurious, detrimental, deleterious, inimical, bad, ruinous
    “an evil spirit”
    (of something seen or smelled) extremely unpleasant.
    “a bathroom with an evil smell”
    synonyms: unpleasant, disagreeable, nasty, horrible, foul, disgusting, filthy, vile, noxious
    “an evil smell”
    noun
    noun: evil
    1.
    profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
    “the world is stalked by relentless evil”
    synonyms: wickedness, bad, badness, wrongdoing, sin, ill, immorality, vice, iniquity, degeneracy, corruption, depravity, villainy, nefariousness, malevolence; devil; formalturpitude
    “the evil in our midst”
    a manifestation of this, especially in people’s actions.
    plural noun: evils
    “the evil that took place last Thursday”
    synonyms: abomination, atrocity, obscenity, outrage, enormity, crime, monstrosity, barbarity
    “the evils of war”
    something that is harmful or undesirable.
    “sexism, racism, and all other unpleasant social evils”
    synonyms: harm, pain, misery, sorrow, suffering, trouble, disaster, misfortune, catastrophe, affliction, woe, hardship
    “nothing but evil would ensue”

    RobinG — otherwise, agree wholeheartedly: the Christian Right presages a dystopian future.

    A few weeks ago AIPAC announced a conference for rabbis where, among other things, they would learn how to ‘engage’ Christian denominations (to keep them in the zionist camp).

    Talk about that Chris.

    Where are these Christian Right groups getting their seed money?
    Are poor Blacks funding BLM?
    Are marginalized Scots-Irish in the Appalachian hills funding Christian Right mega-churches?
    Are Hispanics who crossed illegally into Texas and Florida funding Christian right mega- churches in those places, plus their legal arms in Washington, DC?

  384. @geokat62

    A couple of great comments there, geo. Thanks.

    I hope they all serve time and lose their jobs and any sinecures, but they’ll hardly get slaps on the wrists.

    How anyone can have any faith in the ruling classes or political systems of this country is a mystery to me.

    Faith in frauds. Amazing.

    • Replies: @Art
  385. @geokat62

    I fear that the wellbeing of American Jews is endangered as it hasn’t been since the McCarthy period, when close to a quarter of Americans believed that “most Jews are Communists.”
    Read more: https://forward.com/scribe/393465/netanyahus-policies-threaten-israel-and-american-jews/

    Communism in the United States Jewish Women’s Archive https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/communism-in-united-states
    “In the forty years following the Russian Revolution of October 1917, communism was the most dynamic force in American left-wing politics and a primary mobilizer of radical Jewish women. At the center of this movement lay the American Communist Party, which grew out of various radical factions inspired by the October Revolution. In December 1921, most of these groups came together as the Workers Party, renamed the Communist Party USA (CP) in 1930.

    Jewish women, mostly Eastern European immigrants in New York City, helped to lead the communist cause and were a vital component of its rank and file. . . .

    The majority of rank-and-file party members were garment workers or housewives. Many came to the party through the Jewish Federation, a Yiddish-language organization that originated in the Socialist Party and defected to the communists in 1922.

    The Jewish Federation’s mission was to preserve and invigorate revolutionary yiddishkeit through community-based cultural projects, work that found a generally comfortable home in the communist movement of the early 1920s. While nativism and racism surged in American society at large, ethnic communism flourished in the Workers Party. By the time the Yiddishists joined, the party contained a slew of other foreign-language federations as well. The Yiddishists gave the party a vital link to, and influence among, the large Jewish immigrant Left. . . .

    Why Do American Jews Idealize Soviet Communism?
    Perpetuating the romance of the Bolshevik regime, whose ‘good intentions’ cannot mask the horrors imposed in its name
    By Ruth R. Wisse http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/247253/american-jews-idealize-soviet-communism

    [In] this country there was a time when virtually all intellectual vitality was derived in one way or another from the Communist Party. If you were not somewhere within the party’s wide orbit, then you were likely to be in the opposition, which meant that much of your thought and energy had to be devoted to maintaining yourself in opposition. In either case, it was the Communist Party that ultimately determined what you were to think about and in what terms.

    This was written not in the Soviet Union or one of its satellites, but in New York in 1947 by Robert Warshow in Commentary magazine about the American culture of the previous decade. While slightly hyperbolic (the Southern Agrarians, the American Scholar, etc.?) it faithfully describes American Jewish culture of the time, emphatically including its Yiddish branch. At the extreme of this movement were people like Julius Rosenberg, George Koval, and Mark Zborowski, who actively spied for the Soviet Union. At the same time, editors of Communist publications, Hollywood and union activists, party writers and institutional leaders were all directed by Moscow and were joined by rank-and-file members in promoting the virtues of Stalinism over the evils of American constitutional democracy.

    That only “almost a quarter of Americans believed that “most Jews are Communists” is a tribute to either the misinformation in which the other 3/4 of Americans have been stewed, or to their good grace. As the two representative articles, above, note, a very large number of Jews in USA were Communists, including “Hollywood and union activists, party writers and institutional leaders” who “were all directed by Moscow and were joined by rank-and-file members in promoting the virtues of Stalinism over the evils of American constitutional democracy.”

    If you’re a stickler for definitions and for precision in language, than what Gold, the Forward’s contributing author, fears in not antisemitism by any stretch of the word: Antisemitism is ‘hatred of Jews just because they are Jews.”
    In the McCarthy era, “almost a quarter of Americans believed that most Jews are Communists” because that was the reality on the ground: truth is the mind’s assent to reality.

    If “antisemitism” breaks out in USA today, it will not be antisemitism as appropriately defined– i.e. hatred of Jews just because they are Jews; it will be the realistic reaction to a highly influential group that by Gold’s own declaration professes loyalty to an ethno-state and system of values that are in conflict with American values.

    The solution — the final only solution is for Jews to change their behavior; get with the American program, not the I’m Jewish and I love Communism — or Israel — more than USA program.

  386. polskijoe says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Actually most Jews like to idealize the Bolshevik and only very early parts of USSR period.
    They tend to dislike Stalin. (this applies for both Liberals and Neocons)

    So basically Jewish love of communism = leninist-trotsky and communal.

  387. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    didn’t know about you

    I think one of those things might even be true!

  388. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Potty trained!!!!

    I know!

    he just had to go and upstage us all

    Peace

  389. Rurik says:
    @RobinG

    I watched some..

    it shows a tattooed lunatic shouting about Trump, and implies that as the ‘alt-right’

    then it says the anti-Roe v. Wade people are his “base”, and conflates Les Deplorables with Romney and Bush, the very men whose ideas have been thoroughly repudiated, *specifically* by the Alt-right. Who rejected all the little zio-stooges like Romney and Jeb and Marco and all the rest of the zio-whore$. Trump’s base are a reputation of those things. And the first minute of this video tries to imply the opposite, out of a dishonest and transparent agenda to smear the alt-right for Abby’s (and others) own dishonest purposes.

    this is yellow journalism at its worst

    (as I’ve mentioned, Mike Pence, was indeed selected to appeal to those people on the religious right who actually are rather scary, IMHO ; ).

    then it goes in to conflate the alt-righters (who despise big government) as somehow being fascists = who love big government most of all, and want total big government.

    it drips with sanctimonious dishonesty. Shame on Abby for participating in this. But then as I understand it, she has also repudiated 9/11 truth as well, having once been one of its biggest champions.

    What people won’t do for their bag of thirty shekels (and fame and fortune as a ‘respected’ journalist)

    just goes to show, pretty on the outside can still mean ugly on the inside

    if anyone wants to understand the alt-right, or Les Deplorables, and what they’re all about, The Unz Review has videos available from RamzPaul, and that guy does as good of a job of fleshing it all out as anyone I’ve seen.

    Hate him and his ideas if you want to, but stop lying about it and conflating the alt-right with Christian Zionism and war mongering and big government, when those are the very things that the alt-right are opposed to.

    (this is not to you personally Robin, but to a metaphysical Chris Hedges and Abby Martin and like-minded purveyors of agenda-driven devil’s lies).

    • Replies: @Art
  390. iffen says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    in conflict with American values.

    Do you have the original and authentic document delineating these American values?

    I’m a ‘Murican (not a Canuck, btw) and I have values.

    My values do not seem to align with yours.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  391. Art says:
    @jacques sheete

    How anyone can have any faith in the ruling classes or political systems of this country is a mystery to me.

    jacques sheete,

    Tribal chiefs and witchdoctors have run human tribal organization from the beginning of human time.

    The biological chieftains ran the physical control part of things – the witchdoctors ran the mental control mechanisms.

    Communism is the takeover over of the tribe by the witchdoctors. It turns out that they are even more coercive then the chieftains.

    Humanity’s goal must be to dump the tribe altogether. Democracy was a good first start. But now the Jews have managed to destroy that and reinstate tribal control with oligarchs and deep state witchdoctors.

    Now we must illuminate national government and return to local control of all government functions.

    Think Peace — Art

  392. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    Public calls by Israeli politicians for American Jews to oppose our own leadership— as was the case when Prime Minister Netanyahu asked us to contest the Iran deal negotiated by the Obama administration — will increase resentment among Americans and American Jews in particular.

    this came to its apex when Obama-anointed head of the DNC; Debbie Wasserman Schultz, went to support Bibi’s speech to repudiate Obama to a fawning and obsequious congress, many of whom were Obama’s own hand-selected “loyalists”.

    Now that the Democrat party has morphed into a collage of ‘identity-politics’ assorted losers and butt-hurts, all demanding their respective slice of the American pie, and whose only consensus is a uniform hatred for the Irredeemables, what’s going to happen when they all have to agree, that the wealthiest and most powerful ethnic race of white people in the ZUSA should all continue to receive a blank check for their serial persecution of brown Muslims, among other their other perks?

    For how long will the DNC Deputy Chair Keith Ellison continue to lick Bibi’s hand? And submit to this arrogant white man’s domination in all things?

    http://news.dcweekly.org/2018/01/05/keith-ellison-under-fire-after-anti-semitic-donor-revealed/

  393. Art says:
    @Rurik

    Shame on Abby for participating in this. But then as I understand it, she has also repudiated 9/11 truth as well, having once been one of its biggest champions.

    Rurik,

    None of us are pure. “Perfect is the enemy of good.”

    May I speak up for Abby, she has many YouTube videos out there, giving the bad guys hell.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Every time is see that picture at the top of this article I want to puke!

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Rurik
  394. @iffen

    Do you have the original and authentic document delineating these American values?

    Yes.

    My values do not seem to align with yours.

    No surprise. You’re wrong about most everything.
    I be right.

    • Replies: @iffen
  395. @SolontoCroesus

    SolontoCroesus said to geokat: The solution — the final only solution is for Jews to change their behavior;”

    Hi S2C,

    Truth has a mysterious way of providing “solutions” to American people who are open to such and long for heightened awareness of what the hell is really going on.

    For an example, please look at Jerusalem Post article (linked below) and you might see where I’m coming from with regard to truth and it’s indestructible energy, tenacity

    http://m.jpost.com/International/Jews-participated-in-the-murder-of-their-people-308941

  396. @SolontoCroesus

    The solution — the final only solution is for Jews to change their behavior; get with the American program, not the I’m Jewish and I love Communism — or Israel — more than USA program.

    I am in violent agreement.

  397. iffen says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Do you have the original and authentic document delineating these American values?

    Yes.

    Would you post a pdf copy?

    My values do not seem to align with yours.

    No surprise. You’re wrong about most everything.

    I be right.

  398. geokat62 says:

    Do you have the original and authentic document delineating these American values?

    I thought the foundational documents (e.g.,The Declaration) as well as certain key speeches by a few prominent presidents (e.g., George Washington’s Farewell Address) set out America’s core values?

    That said, I don’t recall any of them recommending the gov’t sell out their people by allowing a lobby of a foreign gov’t to effectively rule over them as being among these values.

    Most peculiar for a Canuck having to explain this to a purported red blooded American, no?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @iffen
  399. @SolontoCroesus

    The solution — the final only solution is for Jews to change their behavior; get with the American program…

    While exactly correct, it will never happen. It’s much easier to blame the dumb goyim for your problems, play the victim card and steal as much as you can in broad daylight if you can get away with it, or by stealth if you can’t.

    It’s even obvious to some of them that “anti-Semitism” doesn’t just appear magically for no reason (as does their contempt for the goyim). Some, in fact, have tried to rein in their co-religionists without effect.

    Here’s an example.:

    The German-Israelite Community League (Gemeindebund) was an “Anti-Defamation League” type group instituted to defend Jews against “anti-Semitism” whether real or imaginary, and they felt compelled to admonish Jews against insolent behavior.

    “In addition, the Gemeindebund periodically addressed itself to the Jewish community . The tenor of this address to the Jews was largely determined by the widely shared conviction that the tactless and insolent behavior of many Jews precipitated much of the current anti-Semitic furor.

    Ludwig Jocabowski’s 1891 novel, Werther, der Jude…is the story of a young assimilated Jewish student…who cringes at the financial operations of his father, a small town banker, and his Eastern European cousin…With angry shame he berates the character defects and unscrupulous practices of his uncultured family. Anti-Semitism is indeed based on fact and can be overcome by drastic ethical reformation of the entire Jewish community. [It doesn’t happen].

    …in December 1880, the Gemeindebund sent out a document titled “An Address of the Board to Co-religionists in Germany” on the subject of how a Jew is to handle himself…the German Jew is advised as to the proper behavior…He must avoid every display of arrogance, superiority, aggressiveness and ostentation…All business is to be conducted honestly and conscientiously, regardless of the customer’s religion….The religious practices of non-Jews are never to become the object of jest or sarcasm…

    -Ismar Schorsch, Jewish Reactions to German Anti-Semitism, 1870-1914, pp.47-8. (1972)

    Given the fact that Jews sneer at the goyim for no reason at all, it’s little wonder that Jews believe that the goyim hate them for no reason. It’s another example of projection, and not only that, but the typical drama queen hysterics.

    It would be nice if they’d just grow up, but infantilism seems to have worked for them for millennia, and it’s not likely to change any time soon. We’re stuck with the petulant, destructive babies for a while it seems.

  400. @geokat62

    That said, I don’t recall any of them recommending the gov’t sell out their people by allowing a lobby of a foreign gov’t to effectively rule over them as being among these values.

    In fact, several of those who opposed adoption of the constitution were concerned, among other things, about exactly that.

  401. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Yes my friend, there is no ‘speculation’ that Jesus spoke ‘some’ Greek for a population who spoke Greek. He did speak Greek, as well as he spoke Aramaic. The Gospels have been written in Greek, the Septuagint was in use for 200 years, we know who translated it and we could asses its accuracy against the Hebraic text. We know how the Koine must have sound because we know the evolution of the Greek language for hundreds of years. We posses an immense number of written records (texts and inscriptions) from every period. Greeks payed very much attention to the language as is attested by the no less enormous number of scholia intended to clarify the authentic meaning of words, especially from the Hellenistic period. In regard to sacred texts a constant effort was made to correct the possible corruptions.
    There is no more doubt whatsoever that the Gospels, the Epistles have been written by their traditional authors.
    Ditto for the Septuagint. We know the number and the names of the translators who undertook the translation, not haphazardly ‘under some Greek magistrate’ but at the summons of the King Ptolemy II of Egypt (285-237), who ordered Demetrius of Phaleron to collect all the books in the world for the Library of Alexandria (the one burnt by the Caliph Omar!), so it was a scientific enterprise. The 72 translators were respected and learned elders from Judea “who mastered not only the Jewish literature but who made a serious study of the Greek as well” sent by the Great Priest Eleazar to correct previous inaccurate translations! So, the Scriptures were correctly transmitted with the highest level of authentication. The Jews made use of it long before the Christian Era, and in the time of Christ it was recognized as a legitimate text, and was employed in Palestine even by the rabbis. You need to upgrade your knowledge if you want to discuss these matters. The conviction that the present ‘biblical’ texts have been ‘corrupted’ is a show of ignorance. The trouble starts when this ignorance becomes aggressive.

    We can’t say that much about Arabic which really starts with the Quran.
    You use the same circular logic. Your justification for the Quranic interpretation of alien concepts is the…Quran.

    • Replies: @Talha
  402. JEinCA says:

    Great piece Mr. Giraldi. You have definitely become a hero of mine. I used to read your pieces on TAC until they fired you for speaking the truth. The only thing I would have added above is that Israel is not only NOT our ally, Israel also carried out a massacre of 34 US servicemen aboard the USS Liberty in 1967.

  403. JohnnyRVF says:
    @Joe Hide

    Why do you lump in Putin with Xi and Trump?

  404. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Uh huh…
    “Despite the tradition that it was perfectly translated, there are large differences in style and usage between the Septuagint’s translation of the Torah and its translations of the later books in the Old Testament. In the 3rd century CE Origen attempted to clear up copyists’ errors that had crept into the text of the Septuagint, which by then varied widely from copy to copy, and a number of other scholars consulted the Hebrew texts in order to make the Septuagint more accurate…The text of the Septuagint is contained in a few early, but not necessarily reliable, manuscripts. The best known of these are the Codex Vaticanus (B) and the Codex Sinaiticus (S), both dating from the 4th century CE, and the Codex Alexandrinus (A) from the 5th century. There are also numerous earlier papyrus fragments and many later manuscripts.”

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Septuagint

    You do your thing, chief. Have a nice day.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  405. Talha says:

    “Trump says it will be hard to unify country without a ‘major event’”

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/trump-says-it-will-be-hard-to-unify-country-without-a-major-event

    Uh oh, here we go again…stay away from tall buildings for a while my friends!!!

  406. @Talha

    Uh oh, here we go again…stay away from tall buildings for a while my friends!!!

    For sure. Here we go again.

    Trump has to know that the towers were demolished under relatively controlled conditions.

  407. @Talha

    Uh oh, here we go again…stay away from tall buildings for a while my friends!!!

    Uh-oh…Oh, but these people are stooopid!

    US-Backed Free Syrian Army Group Shoots Down Russian Jet, Kills Pilot
    Daniel McAdams Posted on February 3, 2018

    The Jaysh al-Nasr rebel group in Syria, part of the US-backed Free Syrian Army, has posted footage of its fighters celebrating the shoot-down of a Russian Suhkoi-25 jet fighter …

    The plane was apparently brought down by a man-portable air defense system (ManPADS) surface-to-air missile. According to press reports, the pilot ejected from the plane safely but was killed by the …rebels on the ground.

    The 2017 US military spending bill provided authorization for the Department of Defense to arm the rebels with shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles or ManPADS. At the time, the Russians vigorously objected to the dramatic US move to provide sophisticated weaponry to the rebels, claiming (rightfully it turns out) that “[t]he relevant decision also poses a direct threat to aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces…”

    https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2018/02/03/us-backed-free-syrian-army-group-shoots-down-russian-jet-kills-pilot/

    • Replies: @Talha
  408. iffen says:
    @geokat62

    as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.

  409. geokat62 says:

    contract Alliances

    Oh, alliances. That’s how you’d like to describe the special relationship?

    I think most would agree it is more like the typical domination/submissive relationship.

    But, hey, I guess PEAbrains must have a predilection for that sort of thing, no?

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  410. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey JS,

    Pretty nuts. It looks like they want to do some real silly arm-wrestling using proxies – though, if I remember correctly, there are US special forces around there too. So who shot down the Russian plane exactly? Seriously hoping cooler heads prevail in all this.

    One thing though, the Su-25 is kind of old (like around 40 years or so) – I thought they would be replacing this at some point. I didn’t think most modern Russian fighters were susceptible to MANPADs…where’s Martyanov when you need him? He’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  411. iffen says:

    I guess PEAbrains must have a predilection for that sort of thing, no?

    Sticks and stones, you pellet dropping, copying and pasting propagandist extraordinaire.

  412. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I’m Jewish and I love Communism — or Israel — more than USA program.

    except that this quote implies they still did love the USA, even if second or third, when I’d suggest that what the USA meant for the first two centuries of its existence- a nation of European stock based on the ideals of liberty and the pursuit of individual happiness, and a repudiation of the corruption of Europe’s monarchies to the banks..

    .. has always been something that ‘the Jews’ despised, when they were selling it African slaves.

    Indeed, wherever you see that independent spirit, manifested by America’s heartland, (or the rural areas of Europe today)- farmers and townsfolk, hardy and corn-fed, usually of the (good and noble) Christian bent who’re not hell bent on wars or rapture, but just committed to living what they consider a ‘good life’, of honesty and decency and reverence for the ancient virtues..

    ..when America used to represent these values,

    is when ‘the Jews’ hated America’s guts. And did all they could to pound a stake straight through her heart. And it’s where this Americana still persists today, in the Heartland, that they despise all things Americana even today. When Obama and his Jews went after Cliven Bundy, it wasn’t because they were bent over the lack of fees Bundy wasn’t paying to the fecal government, it was because of everything Bundy represented.

    Hardy, independent type of European stock. The same types of people that Stalin and his Jews starved to death in Ukraine, because ‘the Jews’ vicerally, down to the core of their beings…

    hate, hate, hate people like that.

    look what they did to those independent-type Christians at Waco. Few people manifested the American spirit more, with hard work and an ethic of good acts towards their fellows and a belief in Christ, it wasn’t Bill and Hillary who burned them alive, but the fiend who has run DC for a hundred years now. It simply has taken it this much time to destroy every last bastion of Americana that it can.

    Everything that I grew up believing that America stood for; the rule of law, accountability, fairness, justice, honor, honesty, hard work and individual opportunity, has all been bashed on the rocks of Orwellian lies and Zionist treachery.

    Now America runs a torture camp, and so the America I grew up with is dead and in its grave.

    But it did once exist, if only in our/my dreams, and there are still tiny hamlets of it left on these shores, where the fiend has not yet crushed it all under it’s juggernaut of hate.

    the only point being that ‘the Jews’ never did love America, until perhaps today, as it wages devil’s wars all over the planet, and openly tortures its victims and injects cultural sewage everywhere its feculent hand reins supreme.

    Grace Kelly has become this

    so I suspect it never was a case of Jews loving communism or Israel more than she loved America, but rather a case of them loving communism, specifically because they have always hated and despised everything that America once (putatively) was.

    Just as they marched the Polish intelligences and poets and priests and leaders up the edge of the ditch at Katyn, so too they’ve managed to murder off that other America I grew up with.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @tjm
  413. @Rurik

    I am still waiting for how any the referenced indicates, I have changed any position.

    • Replies: @Dan Herman
    , @Rurik
  414. @Seraphim

    @ Talha: “Your sarcasm is (like all your sarcasms) misplaced. You are as usual too clever by half.”

    Talha is our TOKEN Mussie on the site, so he get lots of passes and protection too. He is also considered the TOKEN Paki too.

    He tried to fool us with “Son of Mary” and “sons of God”, writing the “Son of Mary” with a capital “S”.

    • Replies: @Talha
  415. @geokat62

    geokat wisely explained to iffen: Oh, alliances. That’s how you’d like to describe the special relationship? I think most would agree it is more like the typical domination/submissive relationship. But, hey, I guess PEAbrains must have a predilection for that sort of thing, no?”

    Hi geo,

    iffen suffers twin maladies, learning deficiency and ideological blindness. As far as I can tell, he is a Zionist-Christian and there is no hope for him. As you constructively wrote above, iffen has foolishly placed himself on the downside of a domination / submissive relationship.

    iffen as you know has lots of company in Jewish submissiveness, including Zionist-Christian V.P. Pence. (Zigh) iffen merely is a national (Zeitgeist) microcosm example of the mindless macrocosm.

    Doubtless, it’s impossible to awaken iffen. But I do wonder if he is aware about a Palestinian Christian presence in Israel and how the “Allied” Trump & ZUS Congress / Netanyahu government recently has approved construction of 1500 new illegal settler units in East Jerusalem, al-Quds, inching closer to the occupation’s desire of a Greater Jerusalem.

    I understand iffen’s terminal learning deficiency-condition, and despite such, linked below is an article which even a submissive “PEAbrain” might (?) comprehend.

    http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/02/04/551252/Israel-illegal-settlement-East-al-Quds-

    Post scriptum: Never wanting to piss off a truly brave American writer, I remain disappointed by Mr. Giraldi’s article that’s titled, “Let’s keep Trump.” First of all, the submissive & “insouciant” masses were given a choice of either Zionist’s Donald or Hillary. We don’t really decide to elect a president, so how is it the People decide to “keep” one?

    Presently, 24/7 Jewish Corporate Media blather about Trump’s Russia collusion and grounds for impeachment! (Zigh) Shall I submit to ZUS political forces and “go-along / to get-along” with the unelected Israeli Dominatrix who controls both USA elections & regime change Process? Phooey.

  416. @EliteCommInc.

    @ Rurik: “I am still waiting for how any the referenced indicates, I have changed any position.”

    Don’t hold your breath. He is known for changing his position like a snake, writing gibberish.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  417. Talha says:
    @Dan Herman

    Talha is our TOKEN Mussie on the site

    And yet, I have not received my Mussie hat in the mail to wear to the protests.

    so he get lots of passes and protection too

    I am going to complain to Mr. Unz – I still have to pay for my own condoms. The corner Walgreens doesn’t seem to accept “Yo, I post on UNZ as the token Muzzie” as payment.

    Frickin’ sucks…”Mussie” doesn’t work either.

    • LOL: Truth
  418. @Talha

    I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if this was done to distract us lumpenproles from the FBI brouhaha.

    Either way, I’d like to see heads roll in DC and Naw Yoik, figuratively speaking. I’d even volunteer to help corral ‘n collar ‘em.

  419. @ChuckOrloski

    Carl Sagan has been very helpful in explaining the the universe to those who are not schooled in astronomy, or astro-physics. And while the scientific method is valuable in explaining the our tangibles – what can seen, measured, tested and from which one can make reliable predictions, whether it explains the supernatural is is dubious because the very definition of supernatural — is that it precludes scientific explanation.

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/Supernatural

    Now sometimes something may be explainable, but that the explainable occurred exceeds understanding – even when tested by scientific method.

    On the question of Israel, it is understood that Israel had a mission, bestowed on them God, to be lights that a God exists. To that mission God it is understood would given them a place of their own, It was also understood that if they strayed far enough, long enough, they would lose said land.

    And history in the mind of most christians confirms the above as Rome finally raised the temple scattering the Jews — to the four winds.

    Also in that relationship with God was a promise that he would restore them. Seemingly fanciful notion in that there are very few if any restored nations as they were after being utterly destroyed.

    Yet, UN Resolution 181 and the resulting troubles, but it led in the end to modern Israel — in the minds of Christians this is the fulfillment of prophecy. And sincerely or not Jews make the claim. Despite all of it problems that sequence is the minds of many christians fundamentalists or not == as prophesy fulfilled and the sequence of multiple supernatural events by occurrence could be predicted using the scientific method. That combined with numerous OT testament scriptures about Christ’s coming and life, including his death and resurrection — are seen as supernatural.

    However, none of the predictions about Israel — are to excuse anything and everything Israel does or says. And has been repeatedly demonstrated in this discussion, understanding Israel’s place in a supernatural context does not be definition mean that all christians support any and every acts Israel engages in. The deep ties that the nation has in christianity includes those old testament histories, because they are also the precursor to Christ. Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and Carl Sagan can cut out whatever they don’t like. None of that changes the historical and contextual links that bind and intertwine the two. but understanding that relationship agreement or not explains why we are here. And why so many fundamentalists look at international events as prophecy to the age of end times and what’s to follow — a series of supernatural events.

    What all that means to politics — well, I guess that is the nexus of discussion, angst, and debate.

    Sidenote: Christians see the mooring of christian ideals, practice and faith from who we are as a country as troublesome, because they want the country to be on the right side of those end times. i am not convinced that scripture demands unqualified support for Israel and there are plenty of others despite themselves being fundamentalists.

    Pres Jefferson, been Franklin’s issues with the OT and the actual supernatural occurrences in the New is not a debate between christians and those founders, but rather between they and Christ who repeatedly called upon the old testament to justify his behavior, attitude and acts – including the supernatural events, so frustrating Pres. Jefferson. So inspite of all his attempts to dissuade belief in OT and New Testament — it appears that both founders and their counterparts parts — whether or not that is supernatural I leave for others to fret over. So I stand by position that our OT and NT roots and traditions are woven deep into the american psyche — whether we recognize or not.

    Hence the popular expression, “An eye for an eye.” an attitude embodied in Israeli thinking regarding territory minus the tempered admonition of Christ —

    “Do unto . . .”

    It would be interesting to see the SM applied to either of those verses with any reliable confirming predictions to human heart and mind – primary factors in OT and NT discourse.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @anon
  420. geokat62 says:

    Sticks and stones, you pellet dropping, copying and pasting propagandist extraordinaire.

    Sticks and stones, really? Let’s see… a PEAbrain vs. a pellet dropper, hum?

    Definition of hypocrite

    from the Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai

    1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
    2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

    • Replies: @iffen
  421. Rurik says:
    @Art

    Hey Art,

    she has many YouTube videos out there, giving the bad guys hell.

    no doubt,

    and she’s also gorgeous and used to represent something ineffable in the realm of journalism..

    Integrity.

    but no more.

    Let me ask you Art, what do you believe is the most salient, significant, evil and heinous act of the 21st century?

    What act was conceived, planned, and perpetrated for the sole purpose of (demonically) dragging humanity (and everything else) down the road to horrors to rival those of the 20th century? Eh?

    Indeed, what specific act has been used (by many of those Jews you’re on about), to foist Endless War on the planet..

    to murder, main and destroy the lives of untold millions of innocent souls out of sheer hatred of human happiness and murderous hatred for their fellow man?

    What single act has been used to nullify our hard-won rights going back to the Magna Carta?

    What single act is intended as a pretext for all the other Orwellian horrors we’re facing down in this century, Art? Even as we speak..

    when people parrot the lies about 9/11 when they haven’t given it any thought, then I forgive them as sheep.

    But when they know what happened and why

    and certainly by whom..

    then I’d think that you of all people would condemn those who betray that truth, for their thirty shekels (fame and fortune), to knowingly act as the Fiend’s handmaiden.

    If an activist against the atrocities in Palestine, were to all in the sudden get a gig with CNN or Faux News, and then ‘change their mind’, and lecture us all that the Jews have to defend themselves after all, and that God gave them that land.. there’s no daylight between us, blah, blah, blah..

    But made all the right noises otherwise vis-à-vis the crimes and wrongs happening all over, would/could you forgive their betrayal on that one small matter?

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Kolo
  422. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I didn’t say you had changed your position

    I said you were a (pathetic) troll

    • LOL: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  423. Rurik says:
    @Dan Herman

    like a snake, writing gibberish.

    what’s the matter?

    heh, heh

    ;)

  424. tjm says:
    @Rurik

    Great comment…

    People just don’t get how they HATE Christians, and they attack Christianity from every angle.

    Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Chump, are all puppets of the Zionist money machine.

    They use higher education (through endowments and federal moneys) , Hollywood, MSM, Advertising, Wall Street, Social Media, Washington, to control all aspects of “reality”.

    THEY ARE POISONING US! If you have seen the latest Star Wars (I have not but read about it) they demonized Luke Skywalker, pushed feminism, and on and on.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  425. iffen says:
    @geokat62

    Definition of sarcasm
    1
    : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
    2
    a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
    b : the use or language of sarcasm

  426. @EliteCommInc.

    EliteComminc missed my point, took off and lectured me: “Carl Sagan has been very helpful in explaining the the universe to those who are not schooled in astronomy, or astro-physics. And while the scientific method is valuable in explaining the our tangibles – what can seen, measured, tested and from which one can make reliable predictions, whether it explains the supernatural is is dubious because the very definition of supernatural — is that it precludes scientific explanation.”

    Hi EliteComminc:

    I appreciate how you offered a response comment.

    However, absent is any reference to Carl Sagan’s work, “The Demon Haunted World.” Apparently your agenda precluded making reference to Sagan’s complaints about Americans who fell for popular New Age “Channelers,” for example, J.Z. Knight, who became enriched by talking with the ancient & dead Ramtha. He was also very skeptical about our nation’s trendy testimony about alien abductions.

    In the book “The Demon Haunted World,” and in contrast to YOU, the late-Carl Sagan does not go into the demon haunted & illegally Occupied territories.

    But my, my, Sagan’s final chapter makes a STRONG statement about the deceptive & unreal nature of US politics and how citizens would benefit by application of scientific (logical) consideration as to how elite phoneys want them to think.

    At any rate, I will “do unto” EliteComminc as he/she might “do unto me,” and say thanks!

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  427. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    it is understood that Israel had a mission

    “Understood” by whom, numb nuts like you?

    Does that “mission” include mass murder?

    How does that square with The Golden Rule?

    And if you can square that hexagram, then I guess the rest of us have a right, maybe even an obligation, to kill Jews before they kill us.

    Hell of a nice guy that I am, I even limit the murder and mayhem to a select few, applying this calculus: The world has already paid and paid and paid for 6 million Jews.

    I figure they owe the world about 4 million.

    Maybe you can apply to be on the committee to select the 4 million Jews that require being removed from the face of the earth, for the good of mankind.

    Think of it as a mission from god.

    Deal?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  428. @ChuckOrloski

    It’s pertinent in this way

    The primary purpose of OT and NT is to bring about a relationship with Supernatural. Here is Mr Sagan’s response. Now I fully comprehend your position. But we are not talking about aliens, we are talking about Israel and its relationship to christians and politics and that application to Palestine. Clearly suggesting the scientific method to the supernatural – which is of course why christians to comprehending the peculiar dynamic of US Israeli relations deserved response.

    Perhaps, I am unfamiliar with the codex here. I am unsure how or why my response is doing you a favor or if you are being sarcastic. I am responding to challenges about NT and OT relevance to the country, the christian and faith and Israel. Perhaps, I should have simply responded in the general forum, as opposed to responding to you directly.

    Lecture — laugh.

    Note: if there are people here who thought I should have responded to them and didn’t, no discourtesy was intended — none in any fashion. excuse my ignorance on the protocol.

    Why introducing Carl Sagan and my response was appropriate:

    https://www.thoughtco.com/carl-sagan-quotes-4072032

    I like Dr Sagan –

    Hmmmm, but Dr. Sagan makes a lot of comments about what Christians belief and why and yet, there’s a single one of them that I found applicable to me or many people of faith that I have associated with. He then proceeds to argue against them — often called a straw man’s argument.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Alden
  429. @anon

    I think you had better read my comments again, and while I am no writer, it’s clear you get the point without actually getting the point.

    As understood by christains — understood by christians was repeated to indicated by the object or holder of said belief.

    I relate in that response that the treatment of the jews towards others has many christians challenging Israel’s behavior. And numerous articles were referenced by myself and others that establish that as fact – even among evangelical/fundamentalists, there are plenty who are adamantly opposed to Israel’s behavior in Palestine.

    And while you reference the golden rule, you seem to have mixed the juxtaposition to an eye for eye, but it’s a great reflection of the depth of scriptural impact on our social and political thought — that is progress.

    I am not a pacifist, but I would be opposed to a war against Israel that is unprovoked as much as I opposed to granting a carte blanche approval of Israel’s killing of Palestinians or her choice to invade the borders in violence of any of her neighbors — sovereignty matters. I am deeply concerned that the Israeli government is permitted to conduct war on the professional lives of US citizens which in my mind is an act of warfare. Why any member of Congress would condone such behavior is undependable.

    I don’t think the holocaust is relevant to my comments —

    As previously stated, minus an overt act of war on the US or her allies by Israel — i would not support the wanton killing of Israelis or Jews. I would support an international military incursion into Palestine as a peace keeping force, as problematic as that might be.

    Your deal is roundly rejected.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  430. @Rurik

    And this as is on record is your response to that you provide evidence that I had changed my position. You cited a post on the article written by Dr/Col. Bacivich, that included being outed — it made no sense. I have read my comment several times and no evidence that I either engaged in provocative intent for mere provocation, made any personal attacks, misconstrued another’s argument, took anything out of context, argues something deliberately to change the topic.

    I will have to take it that you are were frustrated by my disagreement with you and could find no other response but to engage in name calling. I understand – appreciate your willingness to clear that up.

    Confirming i have not changed my positions, or anyway attempted to shift burden or intent — in your view our discussion alone means I am a troll.

    Got it. Integrity is something I work hard at maintaining. It is good to know that you don;t have a sincere complaint in that regard.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  431. @animalogic

    I agree. We should should greater solidarity with our Israeli brethren by moving the U.S. capital to Jerusalem as well while we are doing such things. That way, the government could be near the constituency it serves.

  432. @EliteCommInc.

    EliteComminc said: “Hmmmm, but Dr. Sagan makes a lot of comments about what Christians belief and why and yet, there’s a single one of them that I found applicable to me or many people of faith that I have associated with. He then proceeds to argue against them — often called a straw man’s argument.”

    Hi EliteC,

    Hm. I introduced Sagan’s valuable book, “The Demon Haunted World” to this article thread.

    When you look back at my original comment # 383 & corresponding You Tube video to Mr. Sagan’s book, you will find it did not cover his general “comments.”

    No harm done, I will shun sarcasm in return for your acknowledgement that I am, 1.) a follower of “The Way,” and 2.) an admirer of scientific thought as it relates to the remarkably ordered Cosmos and ZUS politics which (by design) is deceptive chaos.

    I support the Cosmos but not the Neocons!

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  433. Art says:
    @Talha

    “Trump says it will be hard to unify country without a ‘major event’”

    Talha,

    I can see the wheels turning in Trump’s head.

    Good bye NKorea maybe?

    (A twofer.)

    Nothing like a war to unify and focus attention.

    Think Peace — Art

  434. Art says:
    @Rurik

    when people parrot the lies about 9/11 when they haven’t given it any thought, then I forgive them as sheep.

    Have not seen this – but if Abby supports the government 9/11 story – she is very wrong.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @Rurik
  435. @ChuckOrloski

    Last line,

    Laugh. I am hard pressed to have issue with anyone following the way.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  436. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    It looks that you took my advice to inform yourself about the Septuagint. But you stopped at the beginning of the way. If you would continue (i.e. to look for more substantial information) you would also understand where the accusations that the Scriptures have been corrupted, which crept into Islamism, really came from.
    The tradition that it was perfectly translated was a Jewish one. So, Tractate Megillah of the Babylonian Talmud:
    “King Ptolemy once gathered 72 Elders. He placed them in 72 chambers, each of them in a separate one, without revealing to them why they were summoned. He entered each one’s room and said: “Write for me the Torah of Moshe, your teacher”. God put it in the heart of each one to translate identically as all the others did”.
    The legend (relayed by Justin Martyr also) that each of them translated it identically without communicating between them, amounts to claim divine inspiration, as if been ‘been written by divine power’. The basic historical text of the story of the translation, the ‘Letter of Aristeas to his brother Philocrates’ was more down to earth saying that ‘they set to completing their several tasks, reaching agreement among themselves by comparing versions’.

    Jews started to dismiss the Septuagint because of its use by Christians and engaged indeed in a work of falsification both of the Hebrew texts and the Greek text, eliminating or distorting the writings announcing the incarnation (the later books of the OT, namely the Prophets, which certainly circulated in numerous variants, have been translated later), which resulted in the so-called Masoretic text (unknown until the 10th century) promulgated as the ‘only real genuine authentic’ Hebrew text. Origen only tried to clear the mess created by the apparition of the concurrent ‘Septuagints’ of Aquila, Theodotion and Symmachus. The Masoretic text diverge widely from the Greek text, but as the surprising (and embarrassing for the ‘Masorets’) discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls have conclusively shown, it diverge from the Hebrew texts of the Scrolls’, but accord to the Greek text! And still the Babylonian Talmud (completed about 600 AD) uphold the accuracy of the Greek translation! Mahomed took by hearsay (uncritically) his criticism of the ‘books’ from the Jews and its main thrust is against the Christians.

    Do we really have the original text of the Quran as ‘revealed’ to Mahomed? Why did Uthman burnt all the codices which did not agree with his variant (declared the only authentic one) if not because the differences in reading between the various texts was so vast that the Caliph saw no alternative to an order for the standardising of one of the texts and the annihilation of the rest?. There is no text authorized by Mahomed himself. Moreover Uthman burnt and destroyed complete manuscripts of the whole Qur’an copied out by Muhammad’s immediate companions. This leads to the uncomfortable conclusion drawn by the “Islamophobes” that “it was not Allah who arranged the text exactly in the form in which it has come down but rather the young man Zaid and that only to the best of his ability and according to his own discretion, nor was it Muhammad who codified it for the Muslim ummah (community) but Uthman ibn Affan, and that only after a complete revision had taken place with the simultaneous destruction of the other codices which differed from it and which, nevertheless, were compiled by other companions of Muhammad whose knowledge of the Qur’an was in no degree inferior to that of Zaid ibn Thabit”.
    Anyhow, how are supposed to get the real message of the Quran if there are seven possible readings, left at the discretion of the reciter – ‘recite of it that which is easier for you’?

  437. @EliteCommInc.

    EliteComminc said: “Last line, Laugh. I am hard pressed to have issue with anyone following the way.”

    Below is a statistical sign of The (freak) Way of the “Rich Man & Lazarus” that’s become mankind’s cross to bear.

    https://www.upi.com/Study-Top-1-percent-owns-40-percent-of-nations-wealth-highest-point-in-50-years/6591512711491/

  438. I am unclear why you sent me this post. But there is little doubt that after the Clinton Admin. years of WTO and NAFTA, the wealth in the US shifted to the center and the upward. The mergers and acquisitions of media organizations by owners who also owned or had large stakes in other conglomerates has given them massive control and influence.

    what concerns more than that is the influence and access — and even dependency that the political has to the financial support that they can provide. Until we can divorce money from the political and appointed leadership — the country will be hard to govern in the public’s stead.

  439. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, and inferior airborne trained US Army vet, plus pro jazz musician.

    82nd Airborne?

  440. o/t — I think I’m aware that Phil is not that keen on Iran because Iranians tried to kill him or something — let it go, Phil, bygones-bygones {!)

    I’m crazy about Iranians.

    Here’s one more reason why:

    MoonofAlabama has a great article on an Iranian woman that the US Broadcast Board of Governors (BBG) has turned into a US State Dept. anti-Iran propagandist. Her latest stunt was to lead — or attempt to incite — a campaign whereby Iranian women would defy Iranian government and remove their headscarves.

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/01/us-government-runs-anti-head-scarf-campaign-against-iran.html

    Masih Alinejad put her white headscarf on a stick and waved it in the air, a signal to Iranian women to follow suit.

    It flopped.
    The Iranian people, especially Iranian women, are just not that easily herded.

    MoA closed his article thusly:

    “Another Iranian, not yet working for a U.S. propaganda outlet, posted this response to the anti-scarf campaign:”

    Perfect!!
    lol

  441. Rurik says:
    @Art

    but if Abby supports the government 9/11 story

    “I stand by the fact that we were lied to about 9/11, which even the commission members themselves agree with. However I don’t believe it was an inside job and it’s embarrassing to see people call themselves journalists using a six year old video to smear me and conflate statements I made at a rally with my risking my job to speak out about Crimea.”

    https://thedailybanter.com/2014/03/abby-martin-responds-to-the-daily-banter-i-dont-think-911-was-an-inside-job/

    IOW, Dick Cheney was as caught off guard by those 19 terrorists as the rest of us were. And the boyz from PNAC had nothing to do with it. It was Osama Bin Laden who did it, but some of the things said about Saudi involvement or lack there of might have been lies.

    Kosher, all the way.

    And, btw, her ‘speaking out about the Crimea’ = Putin is acting like Hitler and must return those lands to the zio-quislings in Kyiv. (she calls the Crimea’s referendum and will of the people of Crimea = Russia’s military occupation of sovereign Ukrainian land)

    • Agree: RobinG
  442. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    dickhead, (may I call you dickhead? ; )

    your response to that you provide evidence that I had changed my position.

    I never said anything ab0ut you changing your position- comprendi?

    no evidence that I either engaged in provocative intent for mere provocation, made any personal attacks, misconstrued another’s argument, took anything out of context, argues something deliberately to change the topic.

    the proof that you’re a troll is your (tepid) conclusions, (when you have the tepid balls to actually come to one ; )

    and your serial, puerile equivocations

    you’re an obfuscator who likes to dance around issues and make noises that sound putatively sane, but always (and dishonestly) with an agenda

    Spend enough time on these forums, and you get where you can smell the agenda from a mile off, equivocations and trite obfuscations notwithstanding.

    I hope that helps ;)

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  443. @anonymous

    82nd Airborne?

    Nope I ended up in a “leg” unit, as back in the fifties every red-blooded American kid signed up for jump school, and word was, (and a private in the US Army did not argue with city hall), they did not have enough slots for them in the divisions. : 82nd, 101st, (which was still a parachute outfit, and then switched to “air Assault” : after my time was up).

    Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  444. @EliteCommInc.

    Surely 9/11 was an overt act of war, did that occur whilst you were napping?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  445. @Rurik

    be specific — If you think I am avoiding an answer — provide a detailed press of what that avoidance is. Maybe i am, if I will usually state why, unless its personal. Otherwise — despite being windy — I will state my position forthrightly.

    Caveats and nuance are not avoidance — its prudence and consider5ation.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  446. @anonymous

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, and inferior airborne trained US Army vet, plus pro jazz musician.

    82nd Airborne?

    It was undoubtedly 101st airhorn.

    It couldn’t have been 173rd, cuz only real men were part of The Herd.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  447. @NoseytheDuke

    An act of war is considered a state act. This was clearly an act oi terrorism — in this case an international crime and it should have been treated as such.

    With the response of an incisor, as opposed to a sledge hammer —

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @NoseytheDuke
  448. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    100% agree – it should have absolutely been investigated through an international effort to find out what happened. We could have saved countless lives and treasure.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @iffen
  449. geokat62 says:
    @Talha

    … it should have absolutely been investigated through an international effort to find out what happened.

    Hey, Talha.

    It seems like eons ago, but if you cast your mind back, you’ll recall the threat of another anthrax attack was hanging over the people of America like the Sword of Damocles. Or the threat of a dirty bomb going off in a major US city by one of those dastardly terrorists who was likely to smuggle it in after obtaining the device (conveniently) from one of the Jewish state’s enemies.

    No, there was never a chance for an objective investigation to discover what truly happened or who the real culprits were. As the PNAC document noted, they were eagerly awaiting another Pearl Harbor event so they could implement PNAC’S Clean Break policy. And, as the saying goes, the rest is history.

    • Replies: @Talha
  450. iffen says:
    @Talha

    100% agree – it should have absolutely been investigated through an international effort to find out what happened

    It’s not international, but maybe the Warren Commission could get on it. Better yet, the House Intel Committee is already revved up. Let’s give them a shot at it. How about a new and improved National Commission on Terrorist Attacks?

    Or we could just save time and money and accept “the Truth.”

    Dem Jews what done it.

  451. @EliteCommInc.

    Clearly you were napping and are still. Comatose would be a more apt description.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  452. @NoseytheDuke

    Some twenty to thirty members of Osama Bin Laden’s cadre knew or were in any way responsible for the tragedy of 9/11.

    What was required was sound intelligence work, cooperation where we could find it. The loose configuration of entities in Afghanistan had no role in that event.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @wayfarer
  453. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    being windy — I will state my position forthrightly.

    it’s not personal

    it’s the odor of your wind

    and I haven’t noticed you ever being forthright about anything, but then, I’ve only read a few (enough, I’m guessing) of your comments

    it’s a free country, troll away if you’re so inclined

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  454. @Rurik

    The burden is on you to demonstrate or at least advance your accusation via example. Making empty claims and casting aspersions doesn’t get you there.

  455. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Some twenty to thirty members of Osama Bin Laden’s cadre knew or were in any way responsible for the tragedy of 9/11.

    you see what I mean?

    equivocation and duplicitous horse shit

    if you want to say Osama Bin Laden and some of his henchmen were responsible for 9/11

    just say it

    without the noxious little obfuscation “knew or were in any way”

    you want to have it both ways, don’t you?

    You want your little lies and dissembling to seem measured, but it comes off as rank and feckless

    And no one with a shred of brains or integrity still believes in the (obvious by now) lies about Osama Bin Laden.

    • Replies: @Alden
  456. Talha says:
    @geokat62

    Hey Geo,

    No, there was never a chance for an objective investigation to discover what truly happened or who the real culprits were.

    Likely – the military industrial complex was already licking their chops over the gravy train that was going to be rolling their way, likewise the deep-state, likewise the Israeli-firsters, likewise…

    Too many had too much to gain to pass it up.

    But one can of course wish it would have gone otherwise.

    Peace.

  457. Being generous on a number that is not definitive is hardly having it both ways.

    I am being generous by expanding the number. In other-words, even at thirty, actors, not in any way connected to the state, would not be cause for war.

    My acknowledgement of what is an ambiguous composition: doubtful or uncertain especially from obscurity or indistinctness.an ambiguous term. a deliberately ambiguous reply. — ambiguously.

    I think it’s less than twenty. But if that number reaches thirty (as unlikely as it is) it does not change my position. Nor does it shift the forthright position that the act was a crime, not a state act of war by Afghanistan and there is no evidence that Afghanistan had anything to do with it.

    Nor did the loose confederation of what comprised the government involved. And among the varying Taliban community leaders, there was disagreement among themselves how to address the situation. In either case, violating the sovereignty of Afghanistan was the least effective choice and has only complicated matters while leaving the US overexposed and overextended. not to mention the needless waste of resources and manpower.

    That is my position regardless of whether the number of planners and actors are 10, 20 or 30.

    I have not made any comments about the veracity of the governments case. But based on the case that was made, invasion was unnecessary and an ineffectual strategic choice.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Art
  458. @jacques sheete

    ” It couldn’t have been the 173rd”

    The subject here is : “Divisions” and the 173rd is not, and never was a “Division”.

    So much for your knowledge of US military facts, as to be expected from a clueless BSer such as yourself.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained Us Army vet, and pro Jazz musician

  459. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    it’s not the numbers that were an equivocation, it’s the language here

    Bin Laden’s cadre knew or were in any way responsible for the tragedy of 9/11.

    it means two things simultaneously, i.e. that Bin Laden and his cadre were responsible, or “were in any way responsible”, which implies by a literal interpretation of the words, that they were not responsible.

    if you say the FBI “were in any way responsible” for spying on the Trump campaign, then you’re suggesting that they were not responsible.

    comprendi?

    as for the war on Afghanistan, we all know it’s a sham and a fraud. Duh.

    as for responsibility for 9/11, all we need to know is that the Mossad was filming the first plane to “document the event”, and that building seven’s implosion was reported on the BBC and Fox News before it fell. Which means that whomever handed those news agencies the script describing the fall, ‘it was damaged by fires’, blah, blah..

    knew it was going to collapse (into its footprint at free-fall speed). So it was conceived, planed and perpetrated by actors of the ZUS deep state with Israeli, Mossad complicity / cooperation and with the ((controlled msm)) to ride herd on the public.

    duh

    • Replies: @ElteCommInc.
  460. Alden says:
    @MEexpert

    They are not Christians

  461. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Every one in the colonies including the slaves were schooled on the collection of myths fables and fairy tales known as the Bible. Except for holy roller sanctimonious Quakers, every colony has a state religion and numerous preachers.

    Go thump your bible elsewhere

  462. Sparkon says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    82nd Airborne?

    Nope I ended up in a “leg” unit,

    That’s interesting. With all your jazz chops, language fluency, and “Mensa” qualifications, I’m surprised frankly, that you didn’t end up at least in a marching band, or maybe even one of those other specialized units that might have made good use of your talents.

    I don’t know if the Army would be the first choice of all the best and brightest young guys who think about enlisting — rather than going into the Air Force or Navy, for example — so that even a bright star would not necessarily stand out in the galaxy of shining lights in the ranks of the U.S. Army, or something like that.

    I suppose not only did the Army have more wannabe jumpers than it needed, but also more guys who could blow their own horns than the Army had bands, and more geniuses than G2 had seats for them to warm.

    What’s a poor private to do, I guess, but fall in, shape up, and march off?

    Incidentally, did you ever get promoted?

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  463. Alden says:
    @Rurik

    Elitecomminc believes in the Bible. People who believe that collection of myths and fairy tales will believe anything.

  464. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    This site is not a Bible class. Are you some kind of missionary? Go preach to some 70 IQ blacks as they are the demographic most likely to believe in the Bible.

  465. @Rurik

    Short version: regardless of how many actors or planners in Bin Laden’s attack they did not act on behalf of the state of Afghanistan, nor did the state of Afghanistan know or act in concert with Bin Laden and associates.

    equivocate: To use words of equivocal or doubtful signification; to express one’s opinions in terms which admit of different senses, with intent to deceive; to use ambiguous expressions with a view to mislead; as, to equivocate is the work of duplicity.

    I maintain one position here. Based on the governments case for invasion , the act of 9/11 was a crime by non-state actors. And it should have been treated as such.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  466. @Alden

    I did not interject scriptural references. That was done by the author and why he did so was reasonable considering”

    1. that support for Israel comes from a large body of people who believe it’s a biblical expectation
    2. that Israel herself believes the land is destined as a gift from God and her boundaries are layed out in scripture.

    It is very difficult to discuss the question of Israel in relationship to Palestine without referencing scripture. I cannot solve that reality for you.

    Whether one believes in god, scripture or anything else, knowing a key feature of the issue — such as biblical context is not a bad idea.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  467. Rurik says:
    @ElteCommInc.

    nor did the state of Afghanistan know or act in concert with Bin Laden and associates.

    no shit

    because Bin Laden had nothing whatsoever to do with it

    9/11 was a crime by non-state actors.

    not true

    because Israel and the ZUS deep state perpetrated the crime, and Israel is a (pariah) state

  468. @Alden

    Nearly all of what we have come to accept as modern science is derived from Christians. There are more white Christians than there are blacks who hold similar beliefs.

    US
    43% white population — 120,000,000

    83% black population — 70,000,000

    I am careful at claiming the mantle of christian, I certainly lean that direction. but as I understand the christian faith and practice essentially its two facets: walk the walk and preach to the unbeliever. That is the so called mission. And depending on how one looks at it — it appears that whites are more in need of preaching as you indicate — they are by proportionally less likely to believe in christian faith and practice.

    Gere’s an interesting note, of all the Christians in the US those with white skin are the most likely to give Israel a carte blanche’ on any act she engages. As much as 60% of the US public supports Israel. given that blacks comprise some 14% of the population and 43% of them support Israel then,

    based on the advocacy here by some — the most damaging population to US interests are white whether christian or not. If every black disappeared tomorrow. The issue of Israel and her policies would remain as would religious component of the issues. So if Israel is a problem for the US, whites are the largest barrier to preventing resolution.

  469. @EliteComminc.

    1. that support for Israel comes from a large body of people who believe it’s a biblical expectation
    2. that Israel herself believes the land is destined as a gift from God and her boundaries are layed out in scripture.
    It is very difficult to discuss the question of Israel in relationship to Palestine without referencing scripture. I cannot solve that reality for you.

    a. I cannot solve that reality for you
    I can solve it myself quite easily; you could too if you understood the difference between mythology and reality. But it suits your purposes to evade, deny, and obfuscate that enormous distinction.

    I am careful at claiming the mantle of christian, I certainly lean that direction. but as I understand the christian faith and practice essentially its two facets: walk the walk and preach to the unbeliever. That is the so called mission. And depending on how one looks at it — it appears that whites are more in need of preaching as you indicate

    Preach to the unbeliever!! Bring it on!!

    Does that mean that if I become a believer I can claim a chunk of someone else’s property and kill them if they fail to give it to me an leave?

    I’m worried, tho, that I got caught in a conversion-warp: I just had a direct communication from god. She said I should turn holocaust museums all over the USA into roller skating rinks. God said she was a champion rollerskaer in an earlier life and considers roller rinks the equivalent of cathedrals.
    Let’s roll!

    Hey, this is cool.

    Anyone else have any messages from god that mandate mass killing, dispossession, and mayhem?

    PS I gather rationality is not your first language.
    First you say that whites are most in need of preaching to (i.e. least ‘Christianized,”), then you say that white Christians are the greatest enablers of Israel’s genocidal agenda.
    Which is it?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @Alden
  470. wayfarer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    If you haven’t already seen these videos, they offer some credible crime evidence.

    Do you think this evidence justifies a re-examination of the 9/11 crime, and its official 9/11 Commission Report?

    A simple “yes” or “no” answer would be adequate.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  471. @SolontoCroesus

    In addressing these questions, i am responding in the context of today —

    The reality that dealing with Israel and Palestine includes biblical issues is not a problem for me to grasp – not a problem for me. It doesn’t matter whether or not you or I believe the bible has relevance, millions of others do, including Israel. It would not be unwise to know what those issues are –

    The establishment Israel is a reality. There is nothing in scripture that would justify unwarranted killing of anyone by Israel. As has been repeatedly demonstrated — What scripture intends is debated among christians. I think Israel should get out Palestine, in my view it is a violation of a sovereign space. I have also stated that Israel’s occupation of the land after UNRES 181 was unethical and careless administered. In my view, it was an example of ethnic cleansing and stealing, something that 181 did not authorize. But I believe Israel has a right to exist. No being a christian is not a loophole to violate the ten commandments, including theft.

    Nothing in scripture would authorize the taking of property that is not yours by force. In other-words, there’s nothing in scripture that I could attend that permits taking anyone’s museum, unless you purchased it. Because the UN is the governing authority on international disputes – especially as it pertains to Israel and Palestine, Israel in violation of the law by holding territory the UN has decided in not theirs.

    That is not what I said. in response to the assertion of preaching as to the purpose for christian based on the advance of the respondent. You are taking those comments out of context.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  472. Seraphim says:

    The Scripture is clear:
    “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matthew 21:43).
    ‘You’ are the Jews.

  473. @wayfarer

    your question is presents a false dilemma. If one can submit additional evidence for the terrorist attack on 9/11 that helps locate those responsible they should do so.

    I have previously answered those question., What is missing from the case that either Israel, Saudi Arabia or the US engaged in a conspiracy to unite the US for war or profit are the links between the dots.

    The building collapse and has been discussed for 17 tears. The problem is that the experts disagree.

    https://www.livescience.com/16179-twin-tower-collapse-model-squash-9-11-conspiracies.html

    http://www.debunking911.com/towers.htm

    http://skepticproject.com/articles/911/twin-towers/page/2/

    And then of course there are these:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/new-9-11-audiotapes-show-how-crisis-unfolded-1.1033424

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2014/08/911-phone-calls-from-airliners-were-faked/

    https://kendoc911.wordpress.com/911-flights/911-phone-calls/phone-calls-from-flight-93/

    http://www.911review.com/articles/larson/FakeCallsCritique.html

    now U get the press here. It’s called The Scottsman Fallacy In short if i don’t agree with you what is the definitive case as posited, I must be a dupe. The problem is that there are several competing theories and none are definitive. There are plenty of unanswered questions, suspicious circumstances — but connecting those dots has been a very tough slog.

    Given that there are pending potential legal cases — the case for who and what caused 9/11 is not closed.

    https://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2016/10/05/congress-go-ahead-911-lawsuits-saudi-arabia/

    https://nypost.com/2017/03/20/families-of-911-victims-file-suit-against-saudi-arabia/

    For me there’s nothing new that would change my mind.
    But most importantly, the case is not closed officially, there are still those pursuing redress against Saudi Arabia. I don’t think there is any evidence that the Saudi government knowing aided in the attacks.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @Sparkon
  474. Art says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    And among the varying Taliban community leaders, there was disagreement among themselves how to address the situation. In either case, violating the sovereignty of Afghanistan was the least effective choice and has only complicated matters while leaving the US overexposed and overextended. not to mention the needless waste of resources and manpower.

    Just watched a committee hearing on C-Span – we war spending 45 billion a year in Afghanistan (plus blood).

    The Taliban hold more territory than ever. We are bombing them with B-52s, killing god knows who.

    We have pissed off Pakistan – they are sending refugees back to Afghanistan, further complicating matters.

    Every way we turn, there are no good answers. The generals have not delivered and cannot deliver a way out of this mess. They cannot kill their way to peace.

    They have had their chance. It is time to leave the area. (Send the incompetent generals back to school.)

    Hey Trump – as you originally thought – it is a waste of time and money. The generals cannot deliver – change course. The sooner the better!

    America first – defend the homeland – not Israel.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  475. @Sparkon

    “Best and brightest young guys”

    My cousin and I joined up the same day, he the Navy and myself the Army. I ended my service time as an E-5, and he ended up as a Navy Captain, having gone through the commissioning procedure, and retiring after commanding a nuclear, yes nuclear, sub until his wife submitted divorce papers and he was then taken off the sub under standard security policy.
    He also earned a PhD in nuclear physics.
    I was not “Mensa” qualified until long after my military stint, however a very interesting and telling incident occured far earlier namely spring 1955 : I was in high school in Detroit, which at that time was still a civilized world-class metropolis, serene and prosperous, and the Wayne county school system which encompasses Detroit, did IQ testing on it’s total high school population.
    Anyway my mother was called, shortly before summer recess, to school by my counselor, and at dinner that evening I asked her what the reason was for her visit to my counselor, to which she replied that he had informed her that I showed up amongst the top eight highest determined IQs, and he alluded that I was actually number one. So touche’ to you and have a nice day.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

    • Replies: @Alden
  476. wayfarer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    With all due respect, it sounds as if you take a view of the battlefield from middle ground, not a position I typically choose. Interesting though, that historically this has been a preferred battlefield position chosen by the Rothschild house.

    Not saying you’re part of that clan, just that you appear to choose a similar battlefield strategy, given your “argumentum ad temperantiam.”

    I’m not in the fight for money or power, simply for principle.

    It’s either right or wrong.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

    ‘The best business I ever did.’ –Nathan Mayer Rothschild

    Battle of Waterloo
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Waterloo

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  477. @EliteCommInc.

    Nothing in scripture would authorize the taking of property that is not yours by force. In other-words, there’s nothing in scripture that I could attend that permits taking anyone’s museum, unless you purchased it.

    I’m not thoroughly conversant in the bible — I’m of the Roman Catholic tradition and of an age/era that memorized Catechism (which amounted to a primer of Aristotelian/Aquinian philosophy) — but I’m pretty sure Hebrew scriptures not only “authorize” but direct and sanctify “taking property that is not yours by force.” If I’m not mistaken the book of Joshua details that pretty explicitly.

    15 On the seventh day, they got up at daybreak and marched around the city seven times in the same manner, except that on that day they circled the city seven times. 16 The seventh time around, when the priests sounded the trumpet blast, Joshua commanded the army, “Shout! For the Lord has given you the city! 17 The city and all that is in it are to be devoted[a] to the Lord. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall be spared, because she hid the spies we sent. 18 But keep away from the devoted things, so that you will not bring about your own destruction by taking any of them. Otherwise you will make the camp of Israel liable to destruction and bring trouble on it. 19 All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the Lord and must go into his treasury.”

    20 When the trumpets sounded, the army shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the men gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so everyone charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

    Whatever else might be said about the significance of the bible to USA founders, passages such as the above were rejected by men such as Thomas Jefferson — documents substantiate this– and must be rejected by anyone who, like Jefferson, holds estimable the “life and morals of Jesus.” http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/jeffbsyl.html

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  478. Sparkon says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    From that first link you gave in Live Science [sic]:

    When each jet cut its way into a building, it took with it parts of walls and ceilings, Simensen said. Steel bars in those walls would have gashed its fuel tanks, which would have caught fire. With the plane positioned somewhere in the middle of the building, blanketed in debris and with no route for heat to escape…

    Apparently there was no route for this heat to escape other than through those big, airplane-shaped holes in the facade of both buildings. But yeah, we know that those were not the holes the heat was looking for to make its escape.

    And I guess this must have been special, dual purpose aluminum that was capable of cutting through steel box columns one instant, being gashed by steel bars the next.

    How did that work?

    With “experts” like this Simensen, who needs idiots?

    Well anyway, it’s too bad Nimrod and his gang didn’t have some of that magic aluminum when they built the Tower of Babel:

    But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

    Genesis 11:1-9 New International Version

    So we must assume that those zealots who work to “confuse their language” are doing their Lord’s work, eh? Too bad the Lord didn’t plan ahead like those guys who blew up the WTC did, but at least he had a stenographer.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  479. @SolontoCroesus

    Short answer:

    My opening comment addresses this. The death and resurrection of Christ changes the dynamic here, And delving into pre-christian era polity concerning God’s commands to Israel and the strategic arena the people’s of that time engaged are tough to reconcile by the views we hold today.

    It requires more than I am willing to chart — others would e happy to do so I am sure.

    Every Catholic that attends mass here’s old testament and new testament scripture — it read every Sunday.
    ——

    The problem with these founders is nor with me. it’s with Christ, because he and the Apostles routinely used OT scripture. So a christian is more likely to adhere to Christ’s example more than some revolutionaries. He denied the miracles which kept form the same text from which he attempts to mold Jesus into a nice guy who was kind — an exemplar of the “new age” Jesus, as opposed to the one who,

    “I am the resurrection and the life, no man comes to the father but by me.”

    So much for the intellectual integrity of Pres. Jefferson.

  480. @Sparkon

    I am going to avid a debate on the engineering because it’s clear the engineers don’t agree. And even those that challenge the “official” narrative don’t conclude that a different conspiracy exists betond the Osama bin Laden contingent.

    Whether or not Gods angels are involved in confusing the discussion on Twin Tower structural engineering is a tough call.

    But given our history, human beings are quite capable of confusing matters even when they speak the same language.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  481. @wayfarer

    There is clearly data that is correct and data that is incorrect.

    All data exists under a set of conditions (qualifiers) that explicate its veracity.

    Moral and ethical right and wrongs demand solid and consistent foundations — I tend to there are moral absolute rights and wrongs. I think Kant is the secular model for that perspective. And that is a very demanding model for one’s personal, social and professional life.

  482. @Art

    I remain where I came in — invading Afghanistan was unnecessary and a mistake.

    I think might want to check the record on Pres trumps views Afghanistan, he as with most of the country supported it and continues to do so.

    I think invasion was folly from the start. But what to do, american women, wanted to export murdering children and bikini waxing . . .

    excuse my sarcasm.

    • Replies: @Art
  483. Sparkon says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    If you’re going to “avid” a debate, then kindly don’t spam the comments section with a raft of links, along with tedious passages littered with bad spelling, laborious grammar, mysterious logic, and religious proselytizing.

    You’re taking up a lot of bandwidth here with your keyboard diarrhea flooding this venue with vapid, sophomoric arguments, and many of your comments don’t even rise to that level:

    Whether or not Gods angels are involved in confusing the discussion on Twin Tower structural engineering is a tough call.

    More hilarious than tough, I’d say. But let us know when you figure it out. Please report back later with your findings. Much later.

    Round, like a wheel of chocolate pudding churning in a vortex there
    Like a whirlwind down from heaven that is messing up your hair
    Like that brown thing in the punchbowl that is floating in the drink
    Like those messy things found spinning at the bottom of your sink
    Like a crock of something smelly pouring out from every vase
    And now it’s hit the fan again, and heading for your face
    Like the hooey that you find, in the mosh pit of your mind!

    Sincere apologies to singer Noel Harrison, composer Michel Legrand, and English lyricists Alan and Marilyn Bergman of the Oscar winning classic “The Windmills of Your Mind” from The Thomas Crown Affair.

  484. @Sparkon

    thanks for the video —
    so effortless and pure

  485. wayfarer says:
    @Sparkon

    I’m thinking EliteCommInc. may be farming some work out to EliteBotInc.

  486. RobinG says:
    @Sparkon

    Sparkon to EliteCI –

    …. kindly don’t spam the comments section with a raft of links, along with tedious passages littered with bad spelling, laborious grammar, mysterious logic, and religious proselytizing.

    You’re taking up a lot of bandwidth here with your keyboard diarrhea ….

    :) Perfect. :)

  487. @Sparkon

    I could certainly improve proof reading.

    As for the links, reference them or not. Bot any attempt to illicit a agreement on whether anyone else was involved in 9/11 just by listening to your point of view is simply not going to happen. And what those links indicate is that there is plenty of opposing data to the charge of a conspiracy outside of Osama Bin Laden is has problems.

    And that not everyone who doesn’t agree with your conclusions has plenty of rational reasons to be skeptical of the charge.

    Hmmmmmm . . . interesting that you sidestepped the real point of the Babel response and jumped to a fairly shallow assail. You could have adopted something more creative such as.

    Why the scriptural reference uses the “we” or “us” — when there is only one God.
    And the fact more interesting notion that that the use of either term is more indicative of aliens being mistaken for Gods. And confusing the languages was an attempt to control human advancement. That at lest would have been interesting. But in rush to make it personal (in my view) is seek an avenue of escaping the issue is to engage in personal attacks.

    Let’s suffice it to say, you don’t have a clue about why scripture matters to Israel, or the US and their relationship. And its relevant whether you believe in said scripture or not. Nor are you seriously interested in how that relates to Palestine and their relationship to Israel or the territory in question. And your inability to extricate scripture the issue is frustrating.

    Worse, even the founders value scripture. And that in a choice between Pres Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin in criticizing scripture falls flat. And appealing to them, just reinforces the value that the bible plays in US political thought. I understand how frustrating that might be.

    appreciate the admonition on the semantics of my comments.

    • Troll: Zumbuddi
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Alden
  488. Art says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I remain where I came in — invading Afghanistan was unnecessary and a mistake.

    Sadly Trump is listening to the generals. Seventeen years and counting – now we are bombing with B-52s – killing god knows who.

    Mr. Trump – listen to your intuitive self – stop the useless wars – the generals cannot deliver – they cannot kill their way to peace – PERIOD!

    Mr. Trump – defend the US homeland NOT Israel.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  489. Sparkon says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Bot any attempt to illicit a agreement on whether anyone else was involved in 9/11 just by listening to your point of view is simply not going to happen. And what those links indicate is that there is plenty of opposing data to the charge of a conspiracy outside of Osama Bin Laden is has problems.

    [..]Let’s suffice it to say, you don’t have a clue about why scripture matters to Israel, or the US and their relationship. And its relevant whether you believe in said scripture or not.

    This is your mental mosh pit in action, creating a tangled, mangled word salad that condensed from the whirling hooey between your ears, reached escape velocity, and vented to the atmosphere from you-know-where, like a garbage disposal that backfired, or a weaponized veg-a-matic.

    ‘Sorry to break it to you, EliteComminc., but your weakness with words and poor English make you ill-suited for this kind of work, and certainly not an ideal or even viable interlocutor for any serious debate, which in any case I usually try to avoid with religious zealots, and other true believers including Christians, Jews, and Muslims, even when they are quite articulate about their chosen fairy tale, as are several commenters here, to exclude you.

    I suggest you go pray now.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  490. anon • Disclaimer says:

    a garbage disposal that backfired, or a weaponized veg-a-matic.

    lol

    any chance ECi could do something for my dead disposal?

  491. @Art

    I tend to think, it’s bound to fail, but time will tell.

  492. @Sparkon

    While i must always own my issues with writing.

    I think you are hiding the fact that

    1. you don’t know enough about scripture or its relationship to why people believe what they believe regarding Israel.

    2. It’s frustrating when your own examples contradict the premise of your position.

    3. The case for a conspiracy beyond the Osama Bin Laden actors has rational opposition.

    4. When the end of a discussion is is a series of name calling, personal attacks, complaints about writing it’s a safe bet that the complainants have no more arguments to offer.

    If something is unclear, state what you don’t understand or ask for clarification or choose not to respond.

    Ah, “troll”, there’s a unique response. Good grief.

    • Replies: @Alden
  493. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Isn’t there a church or bible school where you can go to preach about the Bible?

    Why preach about it here?

  494. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You’re preaching to the wrong people.

  495. Alden says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Divorced men can’t serve on nuclear subs? Hard to believe as a divorced navy nuclear engineer nephew recently took early retirement from the navy. He got divorced years ago when he was still in navy nuke school.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  496. Alden says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    The Bible is why I stopped believing in God around age 7. I love Catholic and Russian & Greek Orthodox art and architecture though.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  497. Alden says:
    @ElitecommInc.

    Read my post. I didn’t suggest anything

  498. Sparkon says:

    I think you are hiding the fact that

    1. you don’t know enough about scripture or its relationship to why people believe what they believe regarding Israel.

    No, you’re completely wrong.

    I was raised Roman Catholic, and educated by Dominicans, Franciscans, and yes, Jesuits, who struggled to teach me Latin, and taught me how to draw the wee beasties while I was peering through a microscope.

    I think we must have plowed through both OT and NT several times in the course of daily catechism class over the years, and certainly we all sat attentively through the good Father’s sermons every Sunday, Stations of the Cross during Lent, and every so often those tortuous High Masses that seemed to go on forever.

    I’ve had also numerous Jewish friends, Jews in my family, and have worked for Jews, as well. I don’t like to stand in judgment of others, but when I do, it’s based on their actions, and not their identity.

    I don’t condemn entire groups because of the actions of a relative few. We used to have this great word discrimination, but when it took on racist overtones, U.S. society seemed to abandon not only the word itself, but also the entire concept of separating the wheat from the chaff, and moved toward the whatever trope, and affirmative action.

    Life is short; Art long; Opportunity fleeting; Experience treacherous; Judgment difficult.
    –Hippocrates

    So I’ve got no time in my life for poppycock. I can tell you it is a great millstone lifted from the brain –and soul– when you cast off man’s ancient superstitious fairy tales, and rely instead on your own brainpower to behold and ponder this amazing and beautiful world. I know that may be difficult when your millstone is mired in a massive mosh pit of myth and mumbo jumbo, but pull it on out, and give it a shot.

    Think for Thyself.

    I am therefore agnostic, as I readily acknowledge the logical possibility of a deity or even deities, but accept that it may be beyond my power to comprehend any that might exist. Not that it will stop me from trying. Considering the vast, virtually incomprehensible extent of the cosmos, I have a very hard time accepting the idea that Homo sapiens is the preeminent sentient species in the universe. In the face of my ignorance, I choose to keep an open mind, rather than be a slave to some ancient fairy tale.

    As I’ve said, I was raised Christian, and I retain Christian values, especially the Golden Rule, and the rump of the Ten Commandments, starting with the one about mom and dad.

    Conclusions which are merely verbal cannot bear fruit, only those do which are based on demonstrated fact.
    – Hippocrates

    You said:

    Ah, “troll”, there’s a unique response. Good grief.

    I didn’t call you a troll.

    Either you’re a liar, or your reading comprehension is even worse than your poor writing. And don’t forget that commandment against Bearing False Witness. ‘Not to suggest that any Christians could ever be some of the world’s biggest hypocrites, even against some very stiff competition.

    Finally, to wrap this up back on topic, I agree with Philip Giraldi. Order is preferable to chaos.

  499. Sam Shama says:
    @Sparkon

    Your basic tone of address to your interlocutor displays frustration in plain view. As to his writing which he frankly admits could do with better proof-reading – whose doesn’t? Mine certainly do – I find its content elaborate since the subject demands elaboration. Yet succinct because he avoids the usual temptations. To call one of his posts a word salad with a missive more pointedly so, i.e. the green dish, except with an excess of bleu-cheese is, irony doing its best work.

    One may be agnostic, religious or atheistic; none of that precludes the ability to engage in what man has chosen to call rational thought. But that is the provenance of Mankind’s self-congratulatory fits, rather the ‘poppycock’, surely.

    ECI clearly points out that the discussion surrounding the Scriptures was not an exogenous item he inserted, rather more a central notion introduced by the writer, and, bandied about by the commentariat.

    He patiently goes on to explain, without much sincere reciprocity obviously, that religiosity is not what he is preaching, but, placing palms over eyes on the matter of the influence of Scriptures on the FFs and therefore on our Constitution, the corpus of common law, the basic conduct of our public institutions etc. is misleading if not a deliberate ploy of sorts.

    P.S. He remarked on the ‘troll’ issue for one simple reason, not that you called him a troll but someone in your set did. It’s a cheap shot, easily available and frequently used by those at a loss for words or coherent thought.

    • Troll: Zumbuddi, Rurik
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @EliteCommInc.
    , @Sparkon
  500. @Sparkon

    troll — no you did not. I was referencing the noted troll identifier — I assumed it was meant for me and associated it with you — an unintentional mistake..

    I may be clumping you along with others — if so and that association is incorrect — I certainly will withhold that assessment. But you interjected yourself in a long exchange about scripture and its relationship to the the US, Israel, Palestine and Christianity’s support for Israel — that included an attempt to dismiss the role of scripture in US polity with evidence by several founders.

    there is also an ongoing exchange about the nature and fault of 9/11 and my position on those issues. Further you interjected comments about the tower of Babel — the intent of which, as I understood it was to disparage scripture’s veracity, my own or both as well as defend the position that the towers were felled by explosives as opposed to the aircraft. And you ended that bit with a reference about whether angels were confusing the debate as to why the towers fell. I simply made a joke about and proceeded as it really is irrelevant to the discussion. The point of the links was to provide the disagreements among engineers about how and why the towers fell. And that those disagreements among professionals is cause enough for others to challenge a conspiracy by Saudi Arabia, Israel and the US.

    I did make a critique concerning the shallow depth of the retort as many people think that the reference to “we” or “us” is proof that aliens were controlling human development. But you weren’t that creative.

    Essentially your comments directly reference all of those issues. Now your claim is that my comments are essentially incomprehensible — for various reasons. You coupled that with suggestions about my character. At no time did you ask me to clarify my comments — instead chose to challenge my writing ability as well as my intelligence.

    moving to your response that I got it wrong —–

    First I did not question whether you or those or in your corner as I understand the discussion knew OT — but rather that you are unaware of its role in the polities previously mentioned. That has been one of the nexus of the discussion(s)

    Second, none of your responses address that issue. Given your line of analysis, it adds nothing to the matter of US polity in relation to Israel and Palestine — and it doesn’t matter how many Jews you know or don’t know. But as you are an agnostic, it makes no sense that you would engage in a discussion that an agnostic might claim is inconsequential. Instead, you responded with with a scriptural reference concerning a debate that has been ongoing about the Twin Towers since 9/11 occurred. And odd choice as agnostics would note the idea as peculiar — but that is your choice. So in mocking a dispute among various professionals — uh it may have been intended to mock me — but I am referencing their debate, not mine.

    But your following comments about millstones, etc. is just bizarre as an agnostic it’s a peculiar distraction. When an agnostic doesn’t give a hoot one way or another — it’s just a non-factor. But you have relentlessly gone out of your way to critique the idea of faith in God and/or scripture. Further the issue has little to with one’s personal beliefs and there has been little if any discussion about whether one should believe or not — but rather what those beliefs are and the role they play in the politics concerning Israel. You and others have spent a lot of time criticizing the beliefs and ignoring the issue I think Dr. Giraldi was pressing — the roll of those of beliefs and their validity in advancing US goals and impact on international relations – including for the Palestinians.

    Your reference to discrimination is a total loss to me. I have no idea why it’s part of the discussion as presented — it is not directly linked to 9/11, and the politics on the table — at least i don’t see the links. My only comment to the abrupt angle of affirmative action is — ok, it’s largely a gambit that benefits whites, especially white women, homosexuals and white foreigners (or those identifying as white). They have been the primary beneficiaries and have been shortly after its inception. That is a discussion one should have with their wife, daughter, sister, or girl friends — at least if one is white. Other than that — it just sticks out as a peculiar add on.

    Again, it’s hardly convincing that one has an open mind if they are calling a system they claim to be open to — a fairy tale. But as the discussion is not really about the truth of scripture but rather its role in polity — I don’t have much to say on the matter.

    I have already responded to the “troll” matter. But I suspect given the vein of your comments it’s a technical matter — so if I characterized your position, I am in error. That would not be intentional.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  501. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama

    placing palms over eyes on the matter of the influence of Scriptures on the FFs and therefore on our Constitution, the corpus of common law, the basic conduct of our public institutions etc. is misleading if not a deliberate ploy of sorts.

    Wot! Say it ain’t so, Sam; truth-seeking truth-tellers traveling in sheep’s clothing in order to stealthily advance a partisan position?

    I’m shocked! Shocked, I say! What’s a poor galactic pea-brain to do among the wolves?

  502. @Alden

    ” Divorced men can’t serve on subs”

    Of course they can, however as it was explained to me by my mother, his aunt, the reason why they do this is to avoid the occurance of someone under great stress, such as may be caused by divorce proceedings, so as to avoid the possibility of said individual doing something stupid, kind of makes sense,as he was the commander of the sub.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

  503. Rurik says:
    @Sparkon

    thanks for your eloquent comment Sparkon

    I doubt very much the troll EliteCommie is even a Christian

    • Replies: @anon
    , @EliteCommInc.
  504. @Sam Shama

    I won’t skirt the observations that I could and should improve my proof reading.
    I do think that you have expressed my perspective fairly accurately.

    I have come to accept that there are people who no matter what the issue will seek to discredit someone of an opposing view vis a vis their person. And its not kid sport. My goal is to practice staying in issue as opposed on personhood — no matter how dark or complex the discussion becomes.

    If I lose the ability or eschew objectivity – I will use another screen name and respond from a more personal perspective —

    I appreciate your observations.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  505. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    But as the discussion is not really about the truth of scripture but rather its role in polity — I don’t have much to say on the matter.

    good!

    please don’t say much on the matter more often

    but then again, watching you do lexical pirouettes is sort of amusing, if it weren’t quite so pathetic

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @jacques sheete
  506. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Would you be kind enough to point out a few examples of these “lexical pirouettes” you discovered, keeping in mind the definition of the word “lexical”? We might be in for a treat.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  507. RobinG says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Your other screen name will be anonymous, because UR no longer permits sock puppets.

  508. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Would you be kind enough to point out a few examples

    I really don’t have to Sam, like your paramour, your posts as well are a barrage of tortured language and lexical verbiage enough to drown a maelstrom.

    it is fun tho to witness the feverish dissembling of the trolls here, I have to admit. So do, by all means carry on..

    ;)

    • Replies: @RobinG
  509. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    Elitecomminc is an Israeli Jew working in collaboration with Hobby Lobby heir/president Steve Green on the Museum of the Bible, recently opened on US Mall.

    Hobby Lobby & Green are fundamentalist Christians; the architect and design consultants on the ‘Museum’ are Jewish.
    The museum is part Disney, part digital light-show, part archive for the thousands of bible-related artifacts Green acquired over the last 5 years — a chunk of them stolen, for which Green paid a fine.

    Green laments that “people have forgotten about the importance of the bible in creating USA,” and is intent on making the bible more well known.

    Jews in USA would have a keen interest in supporting this misbegotten project: it keeps people of USA dumbed down, and someone else is paying for it. What’s not to like?
    Not implausible ECi is on the cheerleading team the Israelis are prepping — i.e. ECi is learning English, practicing on Unz — to promote The Biiible as THE book of the USA.
    Jews did pretty much the same thing in Europe then in England several centuries ago — insisted that European and British people incorporate as their core mythology what was actually an alien and even adversarial mythology.

    imo it is a profound tragedy for the USA to have a building like The Bible Museum so close to the US Capitol — almost as tragic as the freak-show holocaust museum just down the street.

    The other day, Elon Musk sent his Tesla roadster deep into space; he’s aiming to colonize the moon.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/6/16980954/spacex-falcon-heavy-rocket-middle-core-failed-landing

    The founder of Paypal is working on ways to eliminate death.

    Someone commented on Chamath Palihapitiya recently. The core of Palihapitiya’s thinking is, people with boatloads of money make a difference.
    And that’s true, of course.

    People with boatloads of money and really bad and retrogressive ideas drag humanity, and the people of the USA — inexorably backward.

    Imagine, colonizing the moon when your ideology is based on the “god-given right” to destroy other people and steal their lives, homes, and goods.

  510. Sam Shama says:
    @anon

    Of course you don’t. When cornered, etc.

    As I had anticipated, however, you did not fail to produce a treat. Please do not resist the urge to produce them; metaphors this time, receiving the full treatment of your talents.

    Tell me, how do you “drown a maelstrom” ? Is that akin to “cutting a knife” or “wetting a rain” or “drying the air”? Or even “Rooter the Tooter”? I am curious.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Rurik
  511. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    My view on Andrew Bretbart’s death has nothing to do with MSM or ‘official’ coverage (of which I’m not even aware). It happens that I’m acquainted with a close friend and colleague of the deceased, who has explained in depth the circumstances of Andrew’s death and his well established health problems.

    You may crave that either the Awan brothers or MS13 killed Seth Rich on orders of DWS, but that doesn’t equal evidence. I live in DC and have been in the chorus calling for better investigation, but that means finding facts, not speculation or assumption such as your referring to Rich’s murder as an assassination. The mis-statement-as-fact (see Matt Couch for example) is piss-poor-NOT-journalism, fund-raising click bait.

    These are just the sort of loose remarks that have relegated the need for a serious 911 investigation to the conspiracy bin. And similarly discredits you as a legitimate correspondent.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  512. Rurik says:
    @anon

    Elitecomminc is an Israeli Jew working in collaboration with Hobby Lobby heir/president Steve Green on the Museum of the Bible, recently opened on US Mall.

    now that all makes perfect sense

    ties it all together nicely, if true.

    Jews did pretty much the same thing in Europe then in England several centuries ago — insisted that European and British people incorporate as their core mythology what was actually an alien and even adversarial mythology.

    well all those shekels/gold the inbred, retarded monarchs of Europe borrowed from the Jews to wage wars on their inbred, retarded cousins over the centuries had to be paid back somehow, and so they agreed that the price would be enslaving the minds and souls of their people to the Jewish, biblical narrative, and the people of Europe would have a Jewish god imposed upon them and be forced to worship a Jew as their creator and savior. Such was the terrible price and folly of Europe’s hereditary rule. Just as Russia paid for it’s inbred, royal mediocrity with Jewish Bolshevism. Also a terrible price.

    Cheers

  513. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Shama

    “she forced me back to where the sun is mute.”

    nah

    doggerel
    worthy only of being drowned in a maelstrom.

  514. Rurik says:
    @RobinG

    You may crave that either the Awan brothers or MS13 killed Seth Rich on orders of DWS,

    huh?!

    but that doesn’t equal evidence.

    when did I ever imply that I had evidence. If anything, I said there was none. So who in fact is raving here?

    not speculation or assumption such as your referring to Rich’s murder as an assassination.

    I believe it was. Don’t I have that right? I never suggested I have evidence, and would simply like to see a real investigation that isn’t overtly hampered by the PTB.

    These are just the sort of loose remarks that have relegated the need for a serious 911 investigation to the conspiracy bin. And similarly discredits you as a legitimate correspondent.

    you’re just full of bile Robin, and have been since the day I showed up here. Following me around like my personal nemesis and relentlessly smearing me as a ‘hasbarist’ – and denigrating my character at every opportunity. What’s wrong, do you miss RTW and his vile brand of singularly obsessed hatred for Les Deplorables?

    By implying that I somehow relegated the truther movement to the conspiracy bin’, only points to your hysterical dishonestly. Few people at Unz and beyond have been more tenacious in the quest for 9/11 truth than moi, I’m pleased to point out. And so your curious antipathy just looks more and more curious.

    What, one wonders… fuels your recalcitrant rancor towards the humble and conciliatory Rurik?

    why the aspersions and overt hostility, eh?

    was it something I said?

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @RobinG
  515. RobinG says:
    @anon

    Brilliant, TY. But this museum, while in a prime location, is 2 blocks off the National Mall not on it – and that’s a huge distinction. I’m guessing it’s privately funded.

    An upcoming event is a “half-day symposium will explore the Bible’s influence on the American Revolution and the founding of the United States of America.”

    https://www.museumofthebible.org/

  516. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Tell me, how do you “drown a maelstrom” ?

    well Sam, it’s not simple! And that’s why you’re the Unz own maven extraordinaire!

    Because to drown a maelstrom, you have to inundate it with such oceans of monumental tripe, that it verily succumbs to the shear weight of bilious, bulbous sophistry. No mean feat that, to be sure!

    kudos is in order

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  517. @Rurik

    Wholly of no consequence in this discussion.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  518. @anon

    Apparently you missed my views on Israel and am unaware that Jews are not that fond of me — not even close. And very little of my advocacy beyond Israel has a right to exist and self defense.

  519. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Kudos indeed, but to you, as I verily succumb under the “shear”-ing you apply to the language. Sheer genius.

    Parapraxis, thy name is Rurik.

  520. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    this discussion.

    what discussion?

    I don’t even know what your point is, unless that it’s to conflate some ethereal, amorphous ‘Christian’ heritage as some kind of expiation for the atrocity that is modern Israel.

  521. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    when did I ever imply that I had evidence. You called it an assassination.

    smearing me as a ‘hasbarist’ No, just careless.

    was it something I said? Duh.

  522. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    PS, I finally googled “internet troll” and while there are numerous colorful definitions, none of them apply. I’m certainly not trying to provoke extended exchanges. My only agenda is a little war on shoddy reporting, misleading statements, disinfo by omission, that sort of thing. You just stepped onto (into?) 2 annoying cases.

    But I’m happy that you sputtered wildly, introduced new topics to obscure the weakness of the ones at issue, and put [absurd] words and ideas into my mouth. Kind of underscores, ya got nothin’.

  523. @anon

    I was curious about the Bible Museum. I could not locate what rank the Bible maintains in the US. But it remains the most read book in the world.

    Now I think there may be some dispute compared to the Qu’ran. But by the ranks of two sources — that’s the case.

    I think it is safe to say that it’s role in US polity is substantial whether one thinks it’s a fairy tale or absolute truth. And it is unlikely that any book has had as much influence in the lives of US citizens for good or ill. Bible Museum is hardly beyond the pale.

    Which may explain why so many US citizens support Israel — regardless of whether one considers the matter a fanciful myth or raw truth.

    As for the contention of colonization – it was not uncommon in history for various peoples to consider their destiny based on a supernatural belief and at times conquest. Pre-modern times there were no international tribunals or courts as we understand them today. Invoking God for cause was not unique top any unique group.

    • Replies: @anon
  524. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    points for rapid improvement in the mix of your word salad; still need to balance the oil-to-vinegar ratio.

    However — the critical point in comment #519 is the role of money, in very large amounts, that can accomplish things like launching The Bible to #1 best seller category and do so in times and places where precisely that influence is needed to support the megabucks-donor’s political agenda.

    We know Jews have a great deal of money available to be deployed to achieve their goals.

    Just learned from a vid on another thread http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/destroying-syria/#comment-2195310
    that Jews who arrived in USA in 1935 – 1945 era (vastly subsidized by US taxpayers, one might add), they came with the determination:

    ““I won’t change for America, America is going to have to change for me.”
    and
    “Look, We’re changing America, we’re changing America.” So it was then OK to take your family there.”

    And Jews did indeed deploy their wealth, as well as the resources of the American taxpayers over which US Secretary of Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr. exercised extraordinary control, to radically change American and to advance their agenda while simultaneously undermining the cultural values of the Americans already in USA.

    Some of these activities involved flooding US with Jewish-friendly Bibles; some involved infiltrating Christian seminaries with distorted Bibles, i.e. Scofield; some involved applying the (allegedly) newly-assumed posture of aggressive self-assertion — making demands, rather than interceding, a hallmark of the “new Jew.” https://books.google.com/books?id=5_OXOwvjqjwC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=jewish+intercession+style&source=bl&ots=Ij96SN5fkk&sig=AhiuDr63hdglZFC-SHzvcwMhYMM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFtNKW-5TZAhVS3FMKHZW6AWsQ6AEIVjAL#v=onepage&q=jewish%20intercession%20style&f=false

    (I know there’s an article in Jewish Telegraphic archive about Jews importing thousands of bibles into USA in the war years; I can’t find it right now. Came across these two items (before I got totally distracted — Archives are addictive):

    World Organization to Rehabilitate Jewish Culture Will Be Formed Headquarters in London

    https://www.jta.org/1946/09/22/archive/world-organization-to-rehabilitate-jewish-culture-will-be-formed-headquarters-in-london

    [MORE]

    In addition the group will attempt to re-establish Jewish training centers in Germany and elsewhere. It will also undertake to publish Bibles and textbooks.

    Central Conference of American Rabbis Urges Separation of Schools and Churches

    https://www.jta.org/1946/06/28/archive/central-conference-of-american-rabbis-urges-separation-of-schools-and-churches

    June 28, 1946
    Chicago (Jun. 27)

    Expressing faith in the “American public school system as an institution that embodies the American principle of separation of church and state,” a resolution adopted today at the Central Conference of American Rabbis opposed the use of public school assemblies and convocations for evangelistic purposes.

    The resolution also voiced opposition to “attempts made by Bible societies to use the public school as a medium to distribute various versions of the Bible to school children.”

    A second resolution called on all rabbis teaching and preaching Judaism to speak out on all the challenges of contemporary life in which moral principles are involved. It asserted that “the principles of our faith offer guidance for the conduct of industry commerce, politics, government and international and inter-racial relations.”

    The resolution was adopted following a report by Rabbi Ferdinand Isserman of St. Louis, chairman of the Conference’s Justice and Peace Commission, in which he declared that “laymen of all faiths are being urged to bring pressure on their prophetic clergy by well-publicized, well-financed, and well-organized forces of reaction that work zealously to sabotage political, economic, and industrial reform and thus nullify the social gains of the past few years.”

    Dr. Maurice N. Eisendrath, director of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, spoke of the need for cooperation between lay and rabbinical groups for the furtherance of a religious revival among American Jews. He declared that the “world needs religion more today then ever before in history,” and revealed that to meet this need the U.A.H.C. will sponsor an “American Jewish cavalcade” in November. This effort toward a religious revival in the more than 300 Reform congregations in America will take the form of three and four day visits to the various communities by outstanding rabbinical leaders, Dr. Eisendrath said.

    Dr. Louis Nann of Chicago reported that 66 Institutes on Judaism had been held this past year, attended by 4,200 Christian ministers. He announced that the Conference was planning to hold over 100 such institutes during the next year.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  525. Seraphim says:
    @Alden

    Both Orthodox and Catholics do not have “The Bible”. They have the Scriptures, γραφή/graphé, писание/pisaniye. They read in them something different from what the ‘Bible’ is purported to say (that Jews believe the land is destined as a gift from God and her boundaries are layed out in scripture):

    “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (John 5:39-40).
    “25 Then he [Jesus] said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (Luke 24:25-27).

    The ‘Bible’ is the invention of Anglican ‘divines’, who started to mistranslate the Latin ‘biblia’ (from the same word in Medieval Latin and Late Latin and ultimately from Koine Greek τὰ βιβλία ta biblia “the books” [singular βιβλίον biblion] as a feminine singular noun. Latin biblia sacra “holy books” translates Greek τὰ βιβλία τὰ ἅγια ta biblia ta hagia, “the holy books”.

  526. @Rurik

    … lexical pirouettes…

    Now that’s pure brilliance! Exceedingly descriptive.

    I hope you don’t mind if I borrow it on occasion.

  527. @anon

    Excuse the delay —

    I am not clear what to make of a contention that acknowledges a common practice among human beings — the use of community garnering resources to advance their agenda(s) – money being among them.

    The Bible has been a top book before Jews arrived on the continent in any significant numbers. Did they eventually, garnet together to sell Bibles with a goal of influencing policy — perhaps, but so did the quakers, puritans, lutherans, methodists, catholics, and a host of others and they all bandied together to advance their agendas – even if said agenda was to be left alone.

    Of the 88 Sec. of the Treasury, the number that claiming a jewish lineage is small and you need more to make a case of some ethical or legal impropriety that favored Jews out more than you present “extraordinary influence” is an ambiguous /vague term. 1935 – 1956 were extraordinary times: drought, depression, world war. Explain what you think he did that was in violation to help jews over anyone else. I would have thought if his influence was extraordinary, he would have convinced Pres Roosevelt to accept the passengers on the MS St Louis. Based on that example, it appears that Pres Roosevelt and the US public were “deciders” on policy – even when it came to jews.

    You will not get pushback from me that we have an unhealthy relationship with Israel. It is entirely possible to support Israel and stay out of Syria. I am in complete agreement as previously stated — we have no business violating Syrian sovereignty.

    I am not sure what the advance is here. I won’t support censoring bible sales or who sells them to whom or why. Scofield’s bible is one of thousands — end times is not a Jewish invention. And i do agree that at no point in scripture does end times anything — grant Israel a pass on violating international law. God’s chosen, comes with a very set of responsibilities.

    I think there is abundant evidence that the US is too wedded to Israel that it distorts our policy agenda and is unhealthy for the US.

    I think the evidence is overwhelming that AIPAC should register (maybe must is a better word) as a foreign lobby organization. Nothing about Israel is indicative of a uniquely effective foreign policy so as to enlighten the US.

    If in fact Israel is going to dash around starting strife with her neighbors, she should have to deal with that as an adult member of the international community.

    No US citizen should be punished for criticizing another state. Any member government employee who seeks such a policy – should be fired forth with — yesterday – that is just bizarre.

    The US states is not and should not be making policy that restrict or deny earning a living because we don’t like the policies being advanced by said use, unless there is a legal or ethical violation. We haven’t even figured out to redress blacks without honing in on the plan to fix “whatever”. However, I think critiquing people and how they use their money to influence policy is fair game. However, acts by the Israeli government to punish, or in any way damage any US citizen because of their views, should be considered an attack on the US. And the use by any country of proxies to that bidding is no less egregious and should be treated the same. Especially offensive as the same tax payers are underwriting Israel’s defense.

    Hollywood, Las Vegas, New York, and Chicago Jews are going to ave to take their knocks just like everyone else. They should also enjoy US protections as everyone else. But the interests and citizens of the US as to policy comes first. And that for me applies to mexicans, asians, etc.

    But I am not going to abandon my belief that Israel has a right to exist and to a defense. How reliable they are as an ally is uncertain in my view. And i do not reject that if scripture is accurate and I lean that way — Israel is a unique player in world events. But nothing convinced me that gets them off the hook for behaving as a responsible partner in the international community.

    Note: I am convinced that there is a war against people of faith and a concerted effort to remove such people from political participation — and there I stand immediately and adamantly opposed — regardless of anyone’s views on Israel – unless said views undermine the US or her citizens.

    • Replies: @Talha
  528. Sparkon says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    You make some fair points. Indeed, when fighting word salad with word salad, there is always the danger of being hoist by one’s own verbal veg-a-matic, even if ironically.

    One needs to choose his food fights carefully, eh?

    Just in passing, and mostly in jest, please understand that any frustration you detect oozing from my offerings here is probably the result of my writer’s block, which sometimes endures even for years on end, so that when it does finally lift for some brief time, I hasten to scrape together something presentable before said block descends upon me again…like a giant bullion cube, or matzo ball, if you can imagine that.

    At any rate, your gallant defense of your cohort EliteComminc. didn’t address the issues with his comments that cannot be attributed to mere failure to proof, and therefore must have some other cause, such as:

    510 EliteCommInc. says:
    February 8, 2018 at 5:39 am GMT • 900 Words

    First I did not question whether you or those or in your corner as I understand the discussion knew OT….

    But previously
    502 EliteCommInc. says:
    February 8, 2018 at 12:03 am GMT • 100 Words

    1. you don’t know enough about scripture or its relationship to why people believe what they believe regarding Israel.

    So, first he says one thing, then — when challenged — he says something else. He spams us with a list of links about 9/11, but then says he’s trying to av[o]id discussion about it.

    So it would seem your protégé wants to have it both ways: gum up the comments section with long trivial arguments, and jump from one issue word salad to the next, missing more than a few beets in the process, but leaving fundamentalist fish-heads, Zionist zucchini, and ridiculous religious radicchio scattered all over the place.

    Where are those doggone articulate but capricious angels when you need one to untangle the babble, and get that word salad back in its bowl?

    I note too your gracious but rather disingenuous attempt to explain away his false accusation that I had called him a “troll” when you wrote:

    He remarked on the ‘troll’ issue for one simple reason, not that you called him a troll but someone in your set did. It’s a cheap shot, easily available and frequently used by those at a loss for words or coherent thought.

    Ah, this is a new one for me. Without defining “my set,” and without offering any proof that I even belong to any “set” at all, you try to justify Elitecomminc.’s false accusation with this entirely contrived guilt by association schtick, speaking of cheap shots that are readily available, at least to you.

    Well, I know it’s a challenge wading through all that “bleu-cheese” on my word salads, but even a casual reading of my comments at Unz should make it clear that I carefully avoid joining any of the coffeeklatches, knitting circles, or gratuitous back-slapping-fests that sometimes ensue, and instead rather purposefully more or less keep to myself, offering my comments only when that gigantic black bullion cube lifts enough that my verbal veg-a-matic has a clear field of fire. I think I have something to add to the discussion, and then, only after I have edited and proofed my word salad carefully, so that it’s all neatly served up on the salad dish, and not scattered all over the table, on the floor, the walls, even my interlocutor’s face.

    Yeah, you really got to watch those weaponized veg-a-matics, maintain good fire discipline, and keep your blue cheese dry I mean wet spelled properly.

    Here I must confess that I was also engaging in a torture test of sorts, not only to see if anyone would ride in to EC’s defense, but also mostly because I was considering the possibility that I was engaged in conversation with a bot spitting out machine translations, or possibly a tag-team of not-quite-articulate devils angels.

    Speaking of machine translation, let’s give it a go with Google Translate, just for the sake of demonstration:

    עגול, כמו גלגל של פודינג שוקולד מתגלגל בתוך מערבולת שם
    כמו מערבולת משמים שמפריעה לך את השיער
    כמו הדבר החום הזה באקרובטול שצף במשקה
    כמו הדברים המבלבלים האלה שמסתובבים בתחתית הכיור
    כמו גוש של משהו מסריח שנשפך מכל אגרטל
    ועכשיו הוא פגע שוב במאוורר, ופונה אל פניך
    כמו את hoeey שאתה מוצא, ב במוח של המוח שלך!

    Even working from my doggerel, I daresay something might have been lost in the translation, but I await the word of Hebrew linguists, or lurking polyglots. However, even I can see that Google Translate somehow managed to misspell “hooey,” so obviously the service can’t cut the mustard, or even the blue cheese, when served a creative word salad like mine.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @ElitecommInc.
  529. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You have some nuanced views on this subject, these are appreciated in dealing with the US-Israeli relationship in a sane manner – how many evangelicals have you seen that think along your lines? From what I have seen, this is a minority position, but that impression maybe the result of a propaganda campaign to make their support seem inflated. Do you know if these sentiments – to demand less Israeli influence in our government and that Israel abide by international law – are growing in your community?

    For instance, I do know that some of the younger evangelicals are open to working with Muslims on common issues of religion and morals that affect all of us:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/961608680918700032

    Peace.

  530. in response to your questions:

    1. Not many, that I know. Minority may even be an understatement.

    2. My first response was no. But then I consider some of the websites I included in previous response and I have to rethink my initial response.

    http://republicbroadcasting.org/news/how-some-evangelicals-are-challenging-a-decades-long-stance-of-blanket-support-for-israels-government/