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Keep Your Eye on the Camel
Are the soccer federation arrests about Israel?
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There is a folk tale attributed possibly inaccurately to the Arabs regarding a traveler who allows his camel to first stick its nose into his tent, then followed by other parts of its body, until finally the camel is entirely inside, taking up all the room and refusing to leave. The camel’s humble initial importunity had been so self-effacing and so modest that the traveler did not feel threatened or obliged to object until it was too late to do anything about it. The lesson incumbent on the tale has commonly been abbreviated to the warning “Beware the camel’s nose.”

When I think of the camel I inevitably think of Israel. Israel was created in 1948 against the better judgment of Washington’s foreign policy and defense establishments. President Harry Truman, who sought reelection and was reliant on both Jewish money and votes as part of his strategy, overrode those concerns and endorsed the process. Whether or not he genuinely believed that Israel would accommodate its Arab neighbors and become a true liberal democracy in the region is by no means clear, but the nation’s founders immediately set out to do neither, ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and confiscating their land followed by creation of what is legally and practically a state that benefits only one religious group.

Truman’s allowing the camel’s nose to enter into U.S. politics has unfortunately proven to be far from trivial as Israel’s camel has succeeded in moving into the tent and skillfully manipulating the situation to become a dominant first tier issue for an increasing number of American politicians on the make, not unlike Truman himself. In so doing, a tiny client state has been able to gain the whip hand from its much larger master. And the camel, sensing its power, has not been restrained in terms of demanding its host meet its increasingly onerous needs.

A rationalist might well observe that the United States and Israel have interests that sometimes coincide, but to pretend that that is what drives the process ignores the size and proclivities of the camel. News out of Israel is persistently grim, to include recent proposals to segregate public transportation to preclude its use by Palestinians, and it is made more so by the attempts being made by the White House to buy off the camel by offering it treats again and again lest it begin to make its characteristic rumbling growling noise refer to as nuzzing.

Israel’s new government is its most right wing ever, which is saying a lot. It has a Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely who claims that all the land up to the Jordan River belongs to Israel because the God says so and Rabbi Eli Ben Dahan as Deputy Defense Minister, who has called Palestinians “animals and said “Jews always have higher souls than goyim, even if they’re gay.” He will serve as chief Israeli administrator for the Palestinian Territories, where a lot of goyim are trying to live.

In his electoral campaign, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made clear that he is unwilling to negotiate with the Palestinians and will not permit a Palestinian state, at a stroke contradicting his previous faux acceptance of U.S. proposals to do just that. And of course Israel is moving ahead by building new settlements, another program that Washington had long derided as “illegal” before deciding on a more accommodating word choice by describing them as “unhelpful.” Unhelpful settlements pairs neatly with the journalistic and political replacement of any mention of Israel’s “occupation” of the West Bank with the more comfortably ambiguous “disputed territory.”

It is quite astonishing to note the extent to which President Barack Obama’s Administration has sought to satisfy the demands of the increasingly irritable camel. This long running apology for Washington’s temerity in seeking to advance its own interests reached a frenzied level after Israel began to pressure the White House over Obama’s attempts to reach an agreement on Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program.

The bare bones narrative over what is taking place would delight an aspiring fiction writer who most probably would nevertheless find the plot too unrealistic to use, even if does feature the novelty of a ship of the desert. Ironically, the United States is seeking to do what is clearly in Israel’s interest, and that is to take away Iran’s ability to construct a nuclear weapon. Nevertheless, the Israelis are pushing back to defeat such a resolution because what they really want is for the United States to attack and destroy Iran in a more comprehensive fashion. To that end, Israel and its allies have succeeded in empowering Congress to review, and reject, any agreement made by the White House. It is believed that the Israel Lobby already has enough votes in the Senate to do just that, though it will be more difficult sledding in the House where the Democrats have a firmer grip on their own party members, who are at least for the moment numerous enough to block such an outcome.

Meanwhile bribes are flowing towards the camel from the Obama Administration in an attempt to get it to back off. Israel already receives $3 billion for “defense” from the U.S. Treasury on October 1st every year. But that is only part of the reckoning as there are extras rolled into other legislation. There is, for example, $225 million dedicated to the improvement and expansion of Israel’s Iron Dome defense system. More recently, the White House has approved $1.9 billion in new armaments to include bunker buster and conventional bombs as well as hellfire missiles, a total of 32,100 pieces of ordnance.

It is unlikely that Israel will actually pay for any of that as it is a bribe for good behavior and may be rolled into an even larger arms package that will include a number of new F-35 warplanes. The Congress and Pentagon are also budgeting funds to help Israel develop ground penetrating tunnel detecting radar, a technology for which the United States has no real need.

On the private sector side, the Treasury and Justice Departments are generous in allowing so-called charitable contributions to Israel, tens of millions of dollars of which goes towards expanding the illegal settlements and increasing the clandestine purchases of Arab owned land inside Israel. Total charitable contributions by Americans to Israel exceed $2 billion per year, but they are likely far exceeded by private contributions from Jewish organizations and individuals for which no tax deduction is claimed. As Israel’s GDP was $291 billion in 2014, these amount to significant cash inflows, particularly as they are repeated year after year.

And now it is reported that the Netanyahu government will seek an additional $1.5 billion in additional defense aid per annum if it is to go along with White House policies throughout the Middle East, including Iran. No doubt the first year’s increase will cover many of the new weapons that are in the pipeline but after that, it will raise the annual U.S. contribution to Israel’s so-called defense to nearly $5 billion.

And then there is the question of how the new weapons will be used. Conventional wisdom in the media was that the promised Blu 113 Super Penetrators nearly 5,000 pound bunker busters are intended for Iran if Israel should decide to attack. The New York Post even demanded that Israel be given the “means to defend itself” against Iran by also being provided with the huge GBU-57 30,000 pound bunker busters that are in the U.S. arsenal and, as Tel Aviv does not have heavy bombers, they should also be given the planes to deliver the payload.

But several observers have come up with a more plausible target than Iran: Hizbollah. The new bombs that Israel will be receiving are not powerful enough to destroy Iranian hardened sites but are perfect for eliminating Hizbollah bunkers in southern Lebanon. A war with Hizbollah timed to take place before the end of June, when the Iran negotiations are scheduled to conclude, would throw the entire region into a tailspin and could easily be a game changer, again portraying Israel as a victim, rallying the U.S. Congress and media against any deal with Iran and no doubt derailing the talks. All that is needed is a pretext to attack Lebanon and Israel is expert at providing such pretexts.

Finally, there is the political cover that the camel demands. President Obama has been on an apology tour trying to sell his policies to a skeptical Jewish American audience, holding private meetings with leaders of Jewish organizations, and culminating in a groveling speech at congregation Adas Israel synagogue in Washington in celebration of Jewish American Heritage Month. The United States also backed up its rhetoric most recently when it used its United Nations veto to stop proposals for a conference to create a nuclear free zone in the Middle East, a move applauded by Israel but which conflicts with long term Washington support of measures to stop nuclear proliferation, another instance where deferring to Israel interests does damage to U.S. national security.

And there is also a comic opera side to it all. Last Wednesday the United States Justice Department moved to arrest fourteen officials and marketing executives connected to the world soccer federation, FIFA, on corruption charges. Why would the United States Department of Justice waste its time and resources on what is likely to be a hugely expensive show trial seeking to convict members of an organization that has little public face in the United States and relates to a sport, professional soccer, that is only of limited interest to Americans? The answer, at least for the timing of the arrests, might just be Israel.

The Palestinian Football Association had previously called for a vote to suspend Israel from FIFA because Israeli teams routinely play in the occupied West Bank while the Israeli government both harasses and restricts the movements of Palestinian players between the West Bank and Gaza as well as to international matches. The suspension vote requires a 75% majority of the 209 FIFA members and it would have devastating impact in Israel, somewhat similar to what happened when South Africa was suspended from most international sporting activity due to its apartheid laws. Benjamin Netanyahu recognized the danger and vowed to resist any such moves very aggressively even if it would lead to the destruction of FIFA. Preceding the FIFA arrests, it was considered quite possible that the Palestinian appeal would be successful.

So was it just a coincidence that three days before the Palestinian vote the U.S. government ordered the Swiss police to raid the hotel where the FIFA functionaries were staying to make arrests on corruption charges going back more than twenty years? And how was it that reporters and photographers from the New York Times appeared in the hotel lobby at dawn to record the incident in real time? Was the timing and media coverage intended to delay or cancel the vote? If that was the intention, it succeeded as the Palestinians came under intense pressure at last Friday’s chaotic FIFA meeting and withdrew their motion, delighting Netanyahu .

There is little doubt that FIFA is extremely corrupt, particularly involving bids for World Cups as well as in its marketing and broadcast agreements, and it is clear that it has been under investigation by the U.S. authorities for quite some time. But what is the United States interest apart from resentment over losing out on its own World Cup bids? Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. And the Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. Washington will have to use the same mechanisms it employs for terrorist cases, where any connection including a phone call or internet message that travels through a U.S. based transmission line can be cited as a compelling American interest in the case.

Is the FIFA embarrassment yet another instance of something seemingly unrelated turning out to be at least in part a gift to Israel? The reader can decide for him or herself, but I can smell the camel and if you have ever been close to a camel you know that it is not an experience that one would like to repeat.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: FIFA, Iran, Israel 
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  1. I look forward to the ultimate obsolescence of you crytpoNazi Wasp imbeciles, and to taking a nice long piSS on your graves while singing Havah Negilla…

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  2. Below is the culminating sentence of this piece.

    I can smell the camel and if you have ever been close to a camel you know that it is not an experience that one would like to repeat.

    The author is trying to provoke the emotion of disgust.

    The purpose of communicating disgust is to dehumanize the object of disgust.

    The purpose of dehumanizing a group of people, is to enable harming them without being restrained by feelings of empathy.

    This piece crosses over from political criticism to the encouragement of physical attack.

    The irony is that if Israel was as evil as described by Giraldi, he’d be afraid to write a piece like this, since he would be killed.

    The facts frame him as a hypocrite and a coward.

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  3. The FIFA arrests might be a case of attempting to kill two birds with one stone. For sure the USA doesn’t want a repeat of the public relations success Sochi represented for Russia. There was a (lame) attempt to push out Sepp Blatter and replace him with a USA stooge (lap dog Jordan’s candidate) .. but it was a doomed move on account of the USA controlled little more than Europe’s votes. In any case the USA uselessly expended it’s already small capital and leverage within the world soccer scene by putting its corrupt political agenda on a par with with the very corruption fans across the globe are exceedingly disgusted with. Did Israel precipitate what amounted to an overtly political, stupid move? Nearly anything is possible in the filthy game of geopolitics, including dirtying the so-called ‘beautiful game’ which didn’t need the extra layer of dirt represented in the USA going after what amounts to petty crooks when compared to the criminals at, example given, CitiBank, who received a ‘get out of jail free’ card from the DoJ.

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  4. Chiron says:

    I was thinking the same thing.

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  5. @Joseph Trumpeldor

    I’ve just returned from Israel full of admiration for what I saw (as well as entertainment and not without awareness of Potemkin villages – not in evidence among the Bedouin- and plenty of 20s and 30s precedents for turning tourists into useful idiots).

    However I don’t think ill aimed blunderbuses are useful weapons in controversy and to describe someone with the name Giraldi as a WASP – unless you know more about him than I suspect you do – just won’t sustain your credit with the jury.
    My first quibble (and pls excuse me just having quibbles as I have too little Jewish family connection to allow me a dog, or camel, in this festival) is that the author describes Israel as a country which is legally and practically run for one religious group. But how can the Jews of Israel be described as “one religious group”. While it is true that even atheist Jews may maintain some tribal/family customs like Friday night dinners it is really quite a stretch to treat Israel as being religiously monolithic within its Jewish community or communities.
    And JT: isn’t it an interesting speculation that at least the timing of US prosecutors’ latest example (if I am not characterising it unfairly) of Imperial overstretch might be related to the motion to exclude Israel from FIFA? Is it wrong? Is it implausible?

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  6. LondonBob says:

    I think it was more driven originally by the humiliation of Qatar beating a US bid involving Bill Clinton and Henry Kissinger. Subsequently there have been clear attempts by the usual suspects to politicise the fact Russia won the right to host the 2018 WC by trying to have that right withdrawn. The Israeli thing just gave it additional impetus. A lot like with JFK a lot of interests aligning.

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  7. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi ,

    Given the fact that not ONE individual operating out of the “Office of Special Plans” has been held to account for” defrauding” the American People out of” trillions” of our tax dollars into starting a war of aggression (in Iraq)that “exterminated” millions of people that never attacked us….without doubt the supreme” terrorist” act of the 21st century….

    Given the fact that not ONE CEO of any of our “Too Big to Fail ” banks has been held to account for” defrauding ” the American People out of “trillions” of our tax dollars during the sub prime” fiasco” , what Warren Buffett (rightly) labelled” the Pearl harbor” of the US economy ,and ,without doubt ,the most heinous act of “economic terrorism” of the 21st century…..
    One witnesses the news of the “heroic”FIFA arrests and its ” glowing” front page accolades, with an uncanny sense of awe…
    That the Department of Justice actually CARES about fighting corruption ?
    That the Department of Justice actually CARES about fighting Fraud ?
    That the Department of Justice actually CARES about fighting terrorism ?
    If they really care at all… then Go after those who have perpetrated these MOST HEINOUS CRIMES against our Nation …..and the world … put them in either Guantanamo Bay or federal prison and claw back AS MUCH if not ALL the money that was stolen from US !

    If the Department of Justice really cares at ALL,….about “justice”….Why isn’t THAT their number one mandate ?

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  8. Smiddy says:

    What a shameful article. We should be glad that god’s chosen have graced our strong country with open borders, multiculturalism, civil rights, identity politics, cultural/religious/racial/economic polarization, the disintegration of the American family, endless war in the ME, taking over the Ivy League, and everywhere that leads to, and so on and so on… And, if history tells us anything, it’s that this will end well………

    They are the most efficient catalyst for globalization that mankind has ever seen, this is so mind-numbingly obvious to any comprehensively objective observer of history. It is in their ultimate nature, to all our detriment, to speed up the rate in which evolution takes place, as if Western Civilization wasn’t already bad enough. There is no worse comorbidity to mankind than Western exceptionalism + Jewish ethnocentrism.

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  9. An illuminating article from Mr. Giraldi, as usual. And, as usual, provocative of hysterical outbursts from Israel Firsters. Poor Phil is decried as a crypto-Nazi WASP (!) whose demise is eagerly anticipated and a hypocritical coward (!). Well, that doesn’t sound like the Philip Giraldi whose patriotic and courageous writings I’ve enjoyed for years. Could the hysteria be due to a panicky fear that the Zionist house of cards is finally starting to tumble down?

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  10. Maj. Kong says:

    Excellent diversion from Mr. Giraldi, or should I say, Mr. Qatari

    Anything that Israel can be accused of, Qatar can be accused of twice as much.

    The FIFA scandal is all Qatari Islamist imperialism.

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  11. @Everyone Else

    The purpose of communicating disgust is to dehumanize the object of disgust.

    “To me, they are like animals, they aren’t human.”

    “Jews always have higher souls than goyim, even if they’re gay.”

    Maybe you should toss a few stones at Tel Aviv while you are at it.

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  12. Sam Shama says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    “…isn’t it an interesting speculation that at least the timing of US prosecutors’ latest example (if I am not characterising it unfairly) of Imperial overstretch might be related to the motion to exclude Israel from FIFA? Is it wrong? Is it implausible?”

    it is plausible but highly improbable. Mr. Giraldi and some others, make a living from seeing Israel’s “evil hand” in just about everything. If they lost this unique ability, obsolescence would surely follow.

    As it is said about the old spinsters, they look under their beds in fear, or rather in the hope, of finding a man!

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  13. Sam Shama says:
    @Everyone Else

    Very well said.

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  14. Realist says:
    @alexander

    I agree. Almost anything is more important than sports….’men’ playing little kid games.

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  15. @Ralph Raico

    Could the hysteria be due to a panicky fear that the Zionist house of cards is finally starting to tumble down?

    Hope springs eternal.

    Most likely the camel that got its nose in the US tent on behalf of Israel is a one-hump camel, native to Arabia, Africa and the Middle East region.

    China has camels too; they are two-hump camels.

    China understands camels and is aware of their usefulness. http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_aboutchina/2003-09/24/content_21064.htm As the linked article notes, China’s two-hump camels can travel far, and are a good source of high-quality meat. (The same might be said of Iran’s camels: I had a very good meal of camel in a restaurant in Mashad, which is short camel’s ride from Iran’s border with Afghanistan.) China is also cognizant that — if you’ll pardon the mangled metaphors, too many camel’s noses spoil the soup. In China’s Document 9, that nation has placed limitations on whose organizations and ideas may impose themselves on the Chinese way of life.

    Ira Belkin and Jerome Cohen, of New York University Law School’s U.S. – Asian institute, are critical of China’s attempts to limit the camels in its tent. In a recent New York Times op-ed, Belkin and Cohen complained that

    “foreign-based nonprofit organizations would need to be vetted by China’s security police before they conduct activities in China,”

    and also objected that

    One of the most chilling parts of the draft, Article 59, extends to activities outside China’s borders. Any of the following vaguely defined actions, if attributed not only to a representative within China but also to a foreign organization abroad, would be a violation: subversion of state power, undermining ethnic harmony, spreading rumors, or “other situations that endanger state security or damage the national interest or society’s public interest.”

    Do Belkin and Cohen insist that NGOs operating in a foreign country be encouraged to “subvert state power?” If their model is the activities of AIPAC, which gets around burdensome requirements to register as a foreign agent by persistently refusing to do so, then the answer is Yes: Belkin and Cohen would demand that China open its doors — its tent — to subversives.

    China has seen how that has played out and has formed its own ideas about how a camel should behave, encapsulated in the ancient concept of HE: Peace and Harmony.

    China took to heart that old WASP Phil Giraldi’s cautionary conclusion even before he wrote it: contending with an alien camel in your tent “is not an experience that one would like to repeat.” Maybe Marco Polo conveyed the message.


    PS In some ways China is far more free and open than many model Western states: holocaust “denial” is legal in China.

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  16. @Everyone Else

    Are you criticizing Dr. Giraldi for failing to humanize camels??

    Any thoughts on Aesop’s Fables that you’d like share with us, Everyone Else?

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  17. jack says:

    Israeli trolls shut up.

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  18. Mr. Giraldi and some others, make a living from seeing Israel’s “evil hand” in just about all things. If they lost this unique ability, obsolescence would surely follow.

    As it is said about the old spinsters, they look under their beds in fear, or rather in the hope, of finding a man!

    Imagine her chagrin when she looked under the bed and found Netanyahu in a threesome with Abbas and Nelson Mandela!

    By [evil hand] Chemi Shalev May 30, 2015 , for [obsolescent] Haaretz The obvious and curious South African angles of Israel’s FIFA challenge
    The irony of history: Former ANC leader and anti-apartheid activist Tokyo Sexwale is pegged to monitor Israeli policies towards Palestinian footballers:

    In their rush to declare victory following the frustration of Rajoub’s plan to expel Israel outright, most Israeli politicians and analysts seemed to ignore the potential symbolism and irony of putting a prominent anti-apartheid activist to adjudicate Palestinian claims of Israeli racism and discrimination. The lapse is significant in light of the fact that Palestinians and the boycott divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement view the international boycott of apartheid South Africa – in which sports played a pivotal role – as a precedent and inspiration for their own anti-Israeli campaigns.

    In fact, though white South Africans were stung far more by subsequent boycotts in rugby, cricket and the Olympics, soccer was one of the first arenas in which non-white South Africa together with the rising Africa-Asian bloc of non-aligned nations scored initial victories against the apartheid regime. FIFA’s first suspension of South Africa in 1961 was temporarily lifted at the behest of Blatter’s apartheid-condoning predecessor, the English Stanley Rous, but was shortly reinstated thereafter until 1976, when the Pretoria regime was expelled altogether following the Soweto Uprisings. South Africa was only reinstated in 1992, after it abolished apartheid.

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  19. Ich kann kaum warten…oops… I can’t wait until the political and demographic shift mainly brought about by Jewish intellectuals consumes them before it drags us down. I’ll be standing on your graves singing a much different song (wahrscheinlich auf Deutsch). What was that Robert Allen Zimmerman song’s name? The times are a changin. Everyday the demographic that would support that Zionist state in the west is declining. Maybe in your hate filled brain you fail to notice that is those very same WASPS, upon whose grave you can’t wait to pee, who are the only supporters of zionism. I, personally, haven’t met many zionist Mexicans, Arabs, Chinese or Indians. Come to think of it, I haven’t met many zionist feminist, transgendered, homosexuals, etc. infinitum ad nauseam. Of course, I guess you guys still have the Sampson option, right? Yuk it up while you still can.

    Right back at you, Mr. Trumpeldor. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

    Mr. Smiddy, that was a brilliant piece of satire.

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  20. Sam Shama says:
    @Chris Mallory

    “Maybe you should toss a few stones at Tel Aviv while you are at it.”

    And you should practice your swing at Teheran/Khamenei/Ahmedinejad habitually and casually calling for the death and destruction of America and Israel

    Halevai.

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  21. Sam Shama says:
    @solontoCroesus

    “Imagine her chagrin when she looked under the bed and found Netanyahu in a threesome with Abbas and Nelson Mandela!”

    The repartee falls flat, I am afraid. You do not possess the rapier wit, despite all the pretense.

    Your project to destroy Israel will similarly fall flat. The world will not accept it. Speak to me about this in a year, and annually thereafter.

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  22. Truth says:

    [Unfortunately, there's already a long-time commenter with the handle "Truth" so you should pick a different one to avoid confusion. I'll assume your use of that handle is an honest mistake rather than an attempt at deception, which would not be tolerated.]

    Dear Mr. Giraldi,

    While playing tennis this weekend, the ball took a bad bounce on a crucial point and I missed a backhand passing shot. Was Israel behind that? I don’t think my opponent was Jewish, but it’s possible; maybe he had a Jewish grandparent. Very suspicious. Could you please look into that?

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  23. Sam Shama says:
    @WotansSohn

    We shall see who rides on the wings of Die Walkure!

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  24. JustJeff says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    See that’s what made me side with the anti-Semites. They have facts, they use Occam’s razor, they work with a basic understanding of human nature. By contrast the philo-Semites rely on guilt, shame, propaganda, and ad-hominem attacks. Anti-Semites point out a ridiculous number of Jews in the halls of power working for the interests of their nation and people, philo-Semites counter with your-a-evil-nazi and this utterly bizarre notion that unlike every other conceivable group of human beings, how people perceive Jews has nothing to do with how Jews behave.

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  25. The USA might get its lapdog FIFA president after all

    http://time.com/3905653/fifa-sepp-blatter-resigns/

    ^

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  26. schmenz says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    Gosh….

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  27. TheJester says:

    Philip Giraldi speaks truth to (Jewish money and) power. The Hasbara trolls are out in force. He must be saying something meaningful and worthwhile.

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  28. @Sam Shama

    I’m not looking for a job as a stand-up comic and I have no pretensions whatsoever to being able to influence the course of events. More’s the pity, for if I could, I would counsel Israelis/zionists to change their behavior (how I hate that phrase) before it is too late. I think a different way of dealing with “the Jewish problem” should and must be undertaken by the people of the United States, but zionists are making that less and less likely to occur. Again, more’s the pity.

    But the Haaretz journalist — the name might be Jewish, I don’t know for sure, I don’t count Jews y’know, that would be auntiesemitic (yuk yuk)– pointed to an interesting if long-term source of anxiety: a leader of anti-Apartheid activism is now judge-and-jury of Israel’s behavior wrt to Palestinian soccer. Boycotting sports was a first step in the unraveling of South African apartheid.
    As Sr. Luke used to say, “Take it to its logical conclusion.”

    I have no “project to destroy Israel.” Israel will destroy itself. My “project” is to protect those who might get caught in the fury that will inevitably ensue as Israel finds itself caught in a trap of its own making.

    How can an entity that boasts of operating “by way of deception” possibly retain the belief that such is a long-term strategy for getting along in the world?

    Mondoweiss posted this video several years ago — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmkmwuDAy90 or http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/beinart-says-israel-must-give-citizenship-to-palestinians-under-occupation The focus was not the Jewish girl from Israel –Dana Karon — who was close to tears as she said, “We were lied to,” but I thought that was a significant statement.

    If the leaders of Israel lie to their own children, what would they not lie about? What does it say about the zionist project that Jews feel compelled to lie about it in order to maintain their children’s buy-in to the project?

    Shortly after the Dana Karon video-comments about being lied to, Jeremy Ben-ami of J Street spoke at a bookstore in Washington, DC. The last question in the Q&A segment was posed by a man who, it turns out, is the teacher of Ben-ami’s children. He asked, “What should we teach our children about Palestine?”
    Ben-ami responded, “We should tell them the truth. If we lie to them and they find out, there will be resentment.”

    No kidding.

    “There will be resentment.”

    Drink lots of water or whatever, Trumpledor. It’s going to take a lot of piss to put out the fires of resentment as more and more people wake up to the extent to which they have been lied to, and exploited, and fleeced, and bled, to support Apartheid State version 2.0.

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  29. anon • Disclaimer says:

    In the dating world it is the camel toe that enters first. Twenty years later she is still there and it is too late to do anything about it! Beware the camel toes!

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  30. @Chris Mallory

    The publicizing of disgust communicates more than dehumanization.

    It conveys toxicity and danger of contamination.

    It creates a moral obligation to destroy the disgusting people in order to protect the rest of humanity.

    Giraldi’s words pass over from political criticism to the encouragement of physical destruction.

    Every massacre is preceded by propaganda about the disgusting qualities of the people about to be attacked.

    The irony is that Giraldi has fixated on virtually the only “enemy” who would never attack him back. He can implicitly say “Go kill Israel” but Israel would never say “Go kill Giraldi”.

    Giraldi doesn’t preach disgust about Russia, China or Islam, because he knows they wouldn’t take it, and he wouldn’t be able to sleep peacefully at night.

    That’s why he’s a hypocrite and a coward.

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  31. According to Mr Milekowski (Netanyahu), the BDS movement is the ‘greatest strategic threat facing Israel’. He said that last week.

    Since the FIFA arrests took place only days before the Palestininian-tabled motion to expel Israel from the World Cup, it is entirely ‘plausible’ as a major motive in the move.

    Note too, the corruption allegations span a period of 20 years. So why should a move from an otherwise ‘disinterested’ party take place now? Why would the FBI not prioritize the endemic corruption in professional American sports bodies? There is enough there to keep them in overtime bonuses for a decade.

    FIFA’s ‘money/deals-for-votes’ has been an open secret for years. It’s no different to the way Big Lobby runs the US government – AIPAC comes most readily to mind. At least FIFA is not providing political pretexts for mass-murder – sorry, ‘humanitarian intervention’/’freedom and democracy’/’right to protect’/’liberation’ , take your pick currently ‘enjoyed’ by the peoples of Libya, Iraq, Yemen, The Ukraine , Syria the former Yugoslavia..

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  32. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    “Giraldi” is not an Anglo-Saxon, Protestant name.

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  33. Art says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    “I look forward to the ultimate obsolescence of you crytpoNazi Wasp imbeciles, and to taking a nice long piSS on your graves while singing Havah Negilla…”

    So what do we say when a low life piece of human trash expresses a desire for someone’s death and then to piss on his grave?

    Jesus said “forgive them father for they know not what they do.” So we have to look at old Joe and see where he is coming from – what evil grips his mind – where does he get his bloody mindset? We know that it exists – just look at Israel – last year it murdered 2,300 Palestinians. As Joe has shown us, the desire for the death of one’s opponents is overwhelming in the tribal Jew.

    So where does this come from? Joe’s whole life, his identity is based around something that never happened – poor old Joe is a Passover baby. He thinks that his mini god sent down black angles of death to liberate his tribe. He thinks and revels in the thought that the first born of all of Egypt was murdered for him. How awfully sick. (Of course this never happened – even more sick.)

    So death to his enemies is poor old Joe’s modes operandi. How weak minded can someone be to not see that killing just gets more killing. All of humanity knows this but the inferior thinking sicko Jews. Will they have the courage to modernize their thinking before it is too late?

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  34. iffen says:

    Mr. Giraldi and some others, make a living from seeing Israel’s “evil hand” in just about everything.

    Can you explain this? Where’s the money coming from? Why?

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  35. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “As it is said about the old spinsters, they look under their beds in fear, or rather in the hope, of finding a man!”

    Hey Sam – I like your hasbara – you give us some humor along with the Israeli propaganda – not like that bad old Joe Trumpeldor – he is way meaner (but probably more honest) then you are.

    p.s. How did you Passovers manage to murder 2,300 Palestinians last year?

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  36. @Joseph Trumpeldor

    You are a zionist ashkenazi pig, along with all of the current fascist leaders of the occupied Palestinian state..

    People know that the US Media is complicit in the crimes of the Zionists against the semetic populations (both Arab and native Jews) of Palestine.

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  37. Sherman says:
    @Everyone Else

    The fact is Giraldi is a nasty anti-Semite and admitted Holocaust denier who is on the Saudi payroll.

    Israel is a powerful and thriving democracy. Whatever faults Israel has the fact remains that Arabs living within its borders are infinitely better off than Arabs living in any of the basket case Arab countries Giraldi speaks so highly of.

    Let Geraldi and his ilk spew their venom all they want. Israel is here to stay.

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  38. Art says:
    @Everyone Else

    “The irony is that if Israel was as evil as described by Giraldi, he’d be afraid to write a piece like this, since he would be killed.”

    The truth of the matter is that Giraldi is showing great courage – we all know that to be true. It is dishonest of you to intimate that there are no repercussions from you Jews.

    Old Passover Joe Thrumpeldor has already expressed a desire for Giraldi’s death. Then he wants to piss on his grave. What a inferior knuckle dragging throwback!

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  39. @Everyone Else

    I look forward to the ultimate obsolescence of you crytpoNazi Wasp imbeciles, and to taking a nice long piSS on your graves while singing Havah Negilla… -Trumpledor

    and to Everyone Else re “dehumanizing” etc.

    First, check with Trumpledor. Any dehumanizing content in that comment?

    Second, take a chill-pill; you’re overwrought — or is it over-rotten?

    Third, since you obviously have too much time on your hands, put some effort into this little research project.

    1. Were Germans subjected to propaganda and dehumanization in the years before Sept. 1939?
    2. Who produced the lion’s share of that propaganda? (there’s a clue embedded in the question)
    3. What was the intended outcome of the propaganda?
    4. What was the penultimate outcome of the propaganda?

    Some general questions:
    5. If “propaganda” is true, is it offensive?
    6. If propaganda is not true, that is, it is a lie, is it offensive? If the lie leads to death or other violence, does mendacious propaganda become a crime?
    7. Iss speech that advocates or incites to violence sanctioned by any international rules? (hint: U.N. Charter)

    A short bibliography to get you started:

    Lynne Olson, “Those Angry Days.”

    Benjamin Ginsberg, “How the Jews Defeated Hitler.”

    Jeffrey Herf, “The Jewish Enemy: Nazi Propaganda ….”

    Peter Moreira, “The Jew Who Defeated Hitler: Henry Morgenthau, Jr. …”

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  40. @Sherman

    Giraldi is pathetic, and predictable. What’s surprising is that Unz cares so little about his own reputation as to provide this guy with a platform.

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  41. @iffen

    Where’s the money coming from?

    Probably not much money, but there must be some coming from Unz, and you have to compare it to Giraldi’s earning power as a journalist elsewhere, which is close to zero.

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  42. At the risk of returning to the actual substance of Mr. Giraldi’s piece, I’m wondering whether its author was being entirely serious. The article he links to in support of the contention that the likelihood of the Palestinian is “considered quite possible” hardly bears that out.

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  43. Art says:
    @Everyone Else

    “The irony is that Giraldi has fixated on virtually the only “enemy” who would never attack him back. “ (Israel)

    What are you doing – aren’t you and many other hasbaras attacking him on this very thread – please a little honesty – stop the in your face lies – you all work together – you are a world tribal cabal.

    p.s. We all know you are a tribe of dishonest, greedy, blood thirsty Passover types. We all know that death is you game. You will kill with bullets or words – whatever works.

    p.s. We all know that you tribal Jews are on your way to killing more than 2,300 Palestinians this year.

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  44. @Sherman

    Thanks Sherman for your kind words. For the record I have never denied that the holocaust took place and I have never received a dime from any country or government outside the United States. Which is more than I can say for all of our congressmen and media who have been bought and paid for by Israeli interests. And oh by the way, Israel is no democracy. It is thriving because it has done so on our backs economically speaking which is the usual pattern of robbing the American people to benefit your tribe. If you like Israel so much why don’t you go live there and leave the rest of us alone?

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  45. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Aiiiiie! Run, my Jewish brethren! We had a perfect, diabolical scheme in place to undermine Putin and Qatar, but the brilliant Philip Giraldi was too clever for us once again, and saw through our evil plot!

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  46. @Sherman

    Israel is here to stay.

    To fracture a Gertrude Steinism, “there’s no here here.”

    The public school systems in DC suburbs of Montgomery County, Maryland and Fairfax County, Virginia, two of the wealthiest counties in the USA, offer classes in Mandarin.

    But not Hebrew.

    Classes are offered in Farsi, German, Arabic and of course Spanish.

    But not Hebrew.

    In MoCo Maryland, people clamor to get into the schools for the Mandarin (not Hebrew); waiting lists for apartments & rentals in the schools’s areas have sky-high rents and have waiting lists in order to be in the right neighborhood to get to the right school to learn Chinese. Not Hebrew.

    Feel free to enjoy your here there, not here.

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  47. @FirkinRidiculous

    The article he links to in support of the contention that the likelihood of the Palestinian is “considered quite possible” hardly bears that out.

    The link in question:

    Will Israel be kicked out of FIFA for abusing Palestinian players? May 28, 2015, by Patrick Strickland

    Dr. Giraldi apparently wrote this before the fix was in.

    The fix is now in:

    According to the Jewish Daily Forward’s Breathlessly Breaking News section on May 29, Palestinians have agreed to fellate the donkey, er, camel and rescinded the request that Israel be suspended from FIFA.

    Them Ay-rabs really ought to pay Giraldi better so he can hire an up-dater/fact-checker and trainer in rhetorical krav maga. Sharpen them elbows, Phil.

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  48. @Anonymous

    Aiiiiie! Run, my Jewish brethren!

    Best leave behind a few muscle-men and a canary-colored gypsy cart to haul away Pere and frères Kagan et uxores.

    Charge by the avoirdupois if you must but do it schnell, s’il vous plaÎt.

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  49. I find the debate on Philip Giraldi’s article quite interesting, pitting as it does the generally calm and well-reasoned pros against the generally foaming-at-the-mouth antis. One comment by an anti caught my eye. The reader wrote, “Unz cares so little about his own reputation as to provide this guy with a platform.” Suspicious by nature, I think I detect in the statement the threat of attacks on Giraldi by the usual crowd that holds the Megaphone. But beyond that, a threat to Ron Unz as well. But why should fair-minded people hold it against Unz that his Review publishes the heretical views of a courageous and well-informed writer like Giraldi, or of Steve Sailer for that matter? On the contrary: that policy is the great virtue of this website, and the reason I, and I believe more and more people, visit it every day.

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  50. SFG says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    ‘Hava Nagila’/ ‘Havah Nagillah’ is spelled wrong.

    This guy is a troll.

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  51. David says:
    @WotansSohn

    The idea that Mexicans are not supporters of Israel is wrong. Latin American evangelicals totally accept Israel’s legitimacy. They see its existence as a natural historical continuity with the bible. Second to the US, I’ve heard more Mexicans express an interest in traveling to Israel than to any other country. I’m talking about rural, uneducated types like a lot of those who come here.

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  52. iffen says:
    @International Jew

    Thanks IJ, but I still can’t see the set-up. The commenter said “make a living and others”. I just don’t see how there could be that much money in it. I mean, some people do it for free so how can you make a living at it? He (Gilraldi) has some good points. The US political system is tilted toward money and it is debatable whether Israel qualifies as a democracy. Anyway, his previous article was pretty much a fill-in-the blank with your favorite puppet-master.

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  53. Art says:
    @Sherman

    “The fact is Giraldi is a nasty anti-Semite and admitted Holocaust denier who is on the Saudi payroll.”

    Oh Sherman – you Little Jews are so funny – you think you can tell lies like the big Jews do – “on the Saudi payroll” – now that is out and out funny.

    Haven’t you heard – Saudi is part of the axis of evil – Israel – Saudi – and the US politicians you coerce.

    No little one – you should stick to the Big Jew lies – they are tried and true – you little lemming Jews should just shut up and follow the tribal singsong.

    p.s. Why have the American people never heard about the 2,300 Palestinians you murdered last year. Have you Jews been coercing the US media too? Have you death loving Passovers been shutting down free speech too?

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  54. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website

    While FIFA is corrupt to the hilt and so is (was) this bastard Blatter, and, I also strongly feel for US losing a deserved World Cup 2022 to this sh.thole of Qatar, Phil Giraldi, actually, does have the point in his piece.

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  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    JIDF out in force!!!

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  56. @Sam Shama

    I don’t represent Iran. But I do recognize that the repeated “Death to Iran” posts by Israeli trolls and fake conservatives aren’t that much different than the “Death to America” chants in Iran.

    Honestly, Israel and it’s defense are no business or responsibility of the US government. It is well past time to end the billions in welfare we ship to Tel Aviv every year.

    The biggest instigator of hate in the world today is the terrorist nation of Israel.

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  57. @Sherman

    Israel is here to stay.

    Cool, now can it stay without the billions in welfare that the US taxpayers are forced to send to Tel Aviv every year?

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  58. @Everyone Else

    I totally agree. I call upon Israelis to stop their dehumanizing claim that they are better than everyone else. I call upon Israelis to end their claim that they are the “Chosen People” , dehumanizing all other humans.

    You are a hypocrite and a coward.

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  59. Seraphim says:

    @taking a nice long piSS on your graves while singing Havah Negilla

    This is a real “cris du coeur”. This (and shit) is what the Jews always wanted and did in secret , for “fear of persecution”. It means that they don’t fear any persecution anymore. The camel had indeed occupied the room. Next, you’ll have to vacate it.

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  60. geokat62 says:
    @Sherman

    “Let Geraldi and his ilk spew their venom all they want. Israel is here to stay.”

    I’m struck by how the defenders of the Zionist project reflexively jump on the few goy who are courageous enough to provide examples that validate Mearsheimer & Walt’s thesis, namely that the Zionist project is a liability, not an asset to the U.S.

    Rather than blaming the few goy for pointing this out, shouldn’t the blame be directed at Theodore Herzl for coming up with the brilliant idea of confiscating and occupying another people’s land to create a Jewish homeland in a sea of Muslims?

    I mean you didn’t have to be a grand visionary to predict that this wasn’t going to work out well. In retrospect, Argentina or Uganda would have been better alternatives, wouldn’t you agree?

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  61. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @David

    …and as we know Dave hates, HATES rural uneducated types.

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  62. joe webb says:

    “Israel was created in 1948….” well, that might have satisfied the zealots, but nooooooooo.

    Israel conquered Palestine in 1948, or a large part of it, and went on to conquer the rest of it in 1967. That is the historical reality.

    I don’t bother too much with this stuff any more, but, I do recommend Benny Morris’s book on Israeli history…about ten years ago, forget the title. One of its features is that it deals with military history, which I never read about anywhere else, that is, the coup, the expulsion of @ 700k Palestinians, the massacres at Der Yassin, and elsewhere, and a little discussion of the 500 or so Palestinian villages razed by the Jews, or just taken over. I have known a few Palestinians around Palo Alto who still carried their old house keys to houses snatched by the zealots. I think Edward Said’s family house is still standing with Jews inside…he did a video with him visiting it.

    I don’t have a problem with zionism I just have a problem with stealing and murdering other people and their land. to put it as simply and unemotionally as I can, fuck the jews.

    Morris was attacked by the zealots for his book. As I recall , he responded with the simple explanation that zionism needed to do this dirty deed to the Palestinians in order to found the Jewish State and that lying about it was worse than the deed itself, something like that.

    So, I think god for Israel cuz it is going to bring down the Jewish Power. Thank You Yahweh and all you guys with your funny hats, ugly women, and hateful screaming and yelling. Also, how come Yahweh made you so ugly?

    Joe Webb

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  63. @Joseph Trumpeldor

    “I look forward to the ultimate obsolescence of you crytpoNazi Wasp imbeciles, and to taking a nice long piSS on your graves while singing Havah Negilla…”

    It may be a tad bit early for celebrating. Jews are only a tiny percentage of the U.S. population, and a much smaller percentage of the world’s population. Who on earth is going to trust or support Jews after everyone has seen what Jews have done to the U.S., the West and their neighbors in the ME? You people depend on others trusting you. What now? WASPs and European whites may be in a bind, but do you really believe that Jews will waltz away untouched? Everyone with any sense understands that the situation with Jews probably isn’t going to end well for anyone. Jews are just more vulnerable in the end.

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  64. alexander says:

    WOW Mr Giraldi,

    It looks as if the “CAMEL ” you spoke of “euphemistically” has most emphatically entered the “TENT ” of your Articles’ ” COMMENTS” section .

    You must have struck a NERVE somewhere.!..

    .Perhaps it is alerting the American People to the …
    PEACE DERAILING ATTACK ON LEBANON scheduled for THIS SUMMER…
    .that has elicited this …veritable….
    .STAMPEDE OF” PACHYDERMUS DEFAMATUS”….
    hammering away at the TENT POLES of YOUR ARGUMENT,

    I suppose any “well wrought” argument that just might STYMIE another WAR in the MIDDLE EAST must be “NOSED OUT OF THE TENT OF CIRCUMSPECTION AND DUE DILIGENCE” !

    If, by some miracle, the world has PEACE not WAR this summer……….You are, without a doubt, the Man to BLAME!!!

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  65. The only question these congressional camel
    kafirs ever manage to ask: “Will that be one hump, or two?”

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  66. Sean says:

    A lot of the football organisation insiders in Western countries hated Sepp Blatter and the prospect of him getting another term probably made some of them supply new information in the last few weeks that gave US prosecutors what they needed for arraignments. Moreover the media blitz over Blatter-supportering delegates’ corruption, which has been going on a long time in the UK , made US prosecutors decide this was the right time. Those were the major factors in the timing I think.

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  67. Many times I get a twinge of feeling that I am too hard on Israel – feeling too much outrage at their nasty, racist treatment of the Palestinians, feeling too much outrage as the Jews bamboozle the dim-witted Christian “evangelicals” into believing the Jewish crap doesn’t stink and the greedy, bribe-seeking American Congress members – feeling too much cynicism as the Jewish dominated media shamelessly advances the criminal interests of this mooching, nuclear-armed, tribal boil on the Worlds buttocks. But then I read the hateful, evil comments of these tribal Zionists, and I conclude that Zionism is indeed a form of genocide and must be defeated. And I say this as an ethnic Jew myself.

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  68. dahoit says:

    Isn’t the cheese eater the dual nationalist Glazer?Tribal ties indeed.Is he related to Malcolm Glazer,who owns MAN U or some other British soccer team?

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  69. moi says:

    More wisdom from the camel:

    *Occupied land is disputed land
    *Illegal settlements are disputed settlements
    *Kidnapping is extraordinary rendition
    *Torture is enhanced interrogation

    Thank you Mr. G. Orwell.

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  70. Sam Shama says:

    Mr Giraldi, @solontoCroesus, @Chris Mallory, @Art etc.

    I feel compelled to write this entry, do so expeditiously in the interest of time better spent, and hopefully put to rest one aspect of the caustic back and forth we seem to have been engaged in here. It is something I am quite sure I know more than all of you (given such poor display of the essentials in preceding comments): economics .

    1. The U.S. has indeed during the period 1985-2004, provided $3b in grants per year to Israel. At least 74% (and in realised numbers much more than that) mandatorily spent on U.S. goods and services. The rest (26% or less) can be spent elsewhere. It is important to realise in this context, such spending (especially in the presence of a ZIRP (Zero Interest rate Policy) in the U.S., acts as a boost to the final output of the United States. Put differently, every $1 spent results in approximately $1.5 in measured GDP. Today, most of this grant is spent on military goods, to maintain a Qualitative Military Edge, in systems such as the high altitude Arrow I/II/III, Iron Dome, F-35 joint strike capability, x-Band Radar and U.S. Emergency stockpile in the Middle East, an arena in which the the U.S. has significant interests to defend. Like it or not Realpotitic abhors a vacuum (draw you own inferences)

    2. Israel also benefits from $8b in Loan Guarantees. Such guarantees are subsidised to the tune of 3-4% by the U.S. government or the Israeli government. These loans are primarily commercial use loans. Note that there has not been a single default in U.S. subsidised loans – a performance than far exceeds what the U.S. achieves domestically.

    3. The $3b grant provided to a ~$275 b economy by a $17.6 tr economy amounts to roughly 1.09% and 0.017% of Israel’s and U.S.’s yearly incomes respectively. In other words numbers not significant in size, but wholly different viewed through the lens of a long-term strategy.

    http://www.heritage.org/index/country/israel

    Your conclusion that Israel’s prosperity is the result of U.S. largesse is therefore incorrect and does not even rise to the level of post hoc ergo propter hoc .

    4. Many private investors, including the legendary Warren Buffet, has said that “Israel has a disproportionate amount of brains and innovation”

    http://www.jpost.com/Business/Business-News/Buffett-Israel-has-a-disproportionate-amount-of-brains

    and invested heavily in Israeli metalworking, technology and bio-technology companies. These are not acts of charity.

    5. A point that I really loathe to mention- I am not a “Hasbara troll”, whatever that means and simply wish to add my voice to balance the chorus that calls for the destruction of Israel. (Someone also mentioned elsewhere in this Review, that we apparently get paid for this. In my case I assure you, they could not afford it!)

    6. lastly @Giraldi in your particular case, I really do have a bone to pick. You seem to be saying quite clearly that the U.S. Federal Reserve has been engaged in debasing the the U.S. economy through monetary policy. That is the position I recall Ron Paul screaming incessantly about. Again, for those who do understand economics, that claim does not rise above the level of Alchemy and the Theory of the Phlogiston.

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  71. @David

    “The idea that Mexicans are not supporters of Israel is wrong. Latin American evangelicals totally accept Israel’s legitimacy…”

    Mexicans and Latin Americans are overwhelmingly Catholic, and if they were even allowed in Israel, they would be there as Christians. Good grief!

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  72. @Sam Shama

    Wow Sam – I’ve reviewed my article very carefully and can find NO reference to the Federal Reserve in it. I do not believe that I have ever written or spoken about the Federal Reserve as I know little or nothing about economics.

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  73. @Sam Shama

    Trolls are propagandists now? Is that the proper term? The U.S. doesn’t benefit, but Israel does, and it is impossible to default on loans when there is no expectation of paying them back from either side. The U.S. would do just fine if the “arrangement” ended. I have a little hunch that Israel wouldn’t fare so well.

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  74. Sam Shama says:
    @Truth

    “Could you please look into that?”

    They are on the case.

    Pink Panther Strikes Again tune “Ta Ran Ta Ra, Ta Ra,…….” beckons the Blameless and Pure as the Driven Snow.

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  75. @Joseph Trumpeldor

    “I look forward to the ultimate obsolescence of you crytpoNazi Wasp imbeciles, and to taking a nice long piSS on your graves while singing Havah Negilla…’

    It was such a mistake for us to let you people in to our country.

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  76. Last year my septic tank had to be pumped. It was the result of an Israeli plot involving use of those flushable wet wipes. And we now know that they really do not dissolve in the tank as we were assured by Jewish lawyers in Jewish advertising agencies — all consulting with Tel Aviv to block American Gentile toilets.

    And then just this morning, the toaster popped out the slices a somewhat darker than usual.

    Israel again. Those nefarious Zionists control everything!

    Seriously, Mr. Giraldi, you must start the process of finding yourself a new gig. This one has been ridiculous for a long time, and now it’s well beyond ridiculous.

    Peace, love, truth,

    The Grate Deign

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  77. @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    It was such a mistake for us to let you people in to our country.

    Jews Downplay Ties to Immigration Advocate Roy Naim After Child Porn Arrest

    Naim, who is partially deaf, moved to the United States from Israel with his family when he was 4. The Naims overstayed their visas and settled in the country. He remains an undocumented immigrant. Naim was the subject of a Forward profile earlier this year when he emerged as a high-profile advocate for undocumented immigrants. The profile described Naim as “the Jewish face of the immigration reform struggle.

    . . .
    According to a criminal complaint filed in United States District Court in Brooklyn on Sept. 18, investigators with an arm of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security pursuing child exploitation cases found Naim by tracing an email address that had received child pornography from a person in Louisiana. That email address, [email protected] , was traced to Naim’s home. Officers from DHS and the New York Police Department searched Naim’s house September 16, according to the complaint.”

    The Jewish Face of the Immigration Reform Struggle

    Naim, 29, an Israeli-born Orthodox Jew, has become the Jewish face of activism for immigration reform.
    . . .
    The New York Legal Assistance Group, an organization that offers free legal services, has received 342 applications on behalf of Jewish undocumented immigrants. Many others apply through private attorneys.

    “We know there are thousands of undocumented Jews presently residing in New York City,” said Yisroel Schulman, who founded NYLAG in 1990, adding that it works with a network of 150 Jewish, community-based organizations.

    Clear data on the number of Jewish illegal immigrants in the United States is not available because most are doing what Naim did for 25 years: living in the shadows of society.

    Naim’s “illegal” life began in 1988, when he was 4 years old. His family entered the United States on tourist visas and decided to stay.

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  78. Sam Shama says:
    @Philip Giraldi

    I hereby issue a apology to you (at least a provisional one :-) ). Indeed in this article you did not speak of the Federal Reserve. I am certain I saw it is another post in the Review which ranted on the Fed, with the usual “debasement” claim mixed with a slanted reference to “The Jews” in the Institution.

    I then remembered Ron Paul saying as much, and thus conflated the two together.

    However there is this one,

    “Real people, including thousands of Americans, die and there is no way to avoid a government like ours having to declare insolvency when the credit card comes due, as it eventually will.”

    in: http://www.unz.com/article/nazis-on-the-backlot/

    which is the US-bankruptcy-is-inevitable trope typically accompanying Federal Reserve bashing.

    Again apologies.

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  79. How about just saying that it is not our responsibility to support Israel, and that the corruption and immorality involved in doing so is not worth it? How is that? I didn’t mention the Fed. Or did I overstep by stating that Jews could be corrupt or immoral?

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  80. chris says:
    @Sam Shama

    to all the money, tax deferrals and god knows whatever else, given to our indispensable “ally” you have to add the other billions we’re pumping into its neighbors in order to provide it with a safe neighborhood. If not for their neighbor, Jordan and Egypt would see nothing of the largesse we are showering on them! (and please don’t respond by adding this to our benefits list)

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  81. @The Grate Deign

    Last year my septic tank had to be pumped.

    Signs of progress. Congratulations.
    From squats outdoors to indoor plumbing to nuclear ambiguity in less than 100 years.

    Since his early observations of the Eastern European Jews in 1903, Ruppin had paid special attention to the hygienic conditions of the different communities and had been disturbed by their low level (Bein 1968, I, 225). Ruppin related the dirt and filth to the religious sphere, especially to the Hasidic mentality of the Shtetel. In his first period in Palestine, he was amazed at the sub-standard hygienic practices of the Second Aliya immigrants, and was the first to initiate sanitary regulations; building the first toilets in Kinneret (until then the settlers had answered the call of nature out of doors) and introducing a municipal law making it obligatory for every house in Tel Aviv to have a toilet (Bein 1968, II, 56).
    . . .
    Ruppin knew that the sanitary conditions and hygienic attitudes and practices of the East European Jews in the Pale of Settlement were no better than those of the Oriental and Sephardic Jews
    . . .
    In 1927, after visiting the Jewish community of Berdichev, he described in his diary the horrible sanitary conditions of the Shtetl: “of sewerage there is nothing to talk about [...] a terrible stink came up from the houses.”

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  82. All of which distracts attention from this (as well as the release of the Ukrainian armaments mechanic’s name by RT – a witness who fled the scene into Russia – from the Russian investigation into the downing of MH-17):

    http://7mei.nl/2015/05/30/lev/

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  83. @sam shama

    Please explain how the influence of AIPAC/CFR is not related to US foreign ‘policy’ and major contracts for the MIC or the murderous mayhem unleashed in the MENA since the discovery of those non-existent WMD in Iraq.

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  84. @The Grate Deign

    Sorry, but the emperor isn’t just naked, he’s also standing in traffic masturbating and screaming profanities and gibberish at strangers. The mask is off, and the Jewish establishment is what it is. There’s no putting the kosher toothpaste back in the tube.

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  85. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    This is a curious post.

    Your interest and expertise in things scatalogical are only exceeded by your hatred of Jews. Anyone reading your comments -any person un-lobotomised that is – couldn’t but dismiss your protestations to not being “auntisemitic (yuk yuk)” as being so much tripe. Or, in your case, (preference noted) scat.

    What is your handle solontoCroesus intended for? that you are the wise Solon advising us Croesuses? (Why don’t you use your own bloody name?)

    Observe your own ‘shameless’ use of the ‘Jew’ Gertrude Stein’s expression, and I offer you my own turn of phrase: There isn’t so much “us” in “our” country.

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  86. Sam Shama says:
    @chris

    “…..to all the money, tax deferrals and god knows whatever else”

    Care to be precise? Apparently G’d really doesn’t know. I’ve checked the Bible, and not a mention of tax deferrals I’m afraid.

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  87. Sam Shama says:
    @sure thing

    I’ll explain that after you explain why “The Rain in Spain Falls Mainly on the Plain.”

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  88. I don’t hate Jewish people – quite the contrary. But since Jewish people are as human as the rest of us, individuals will choose to do good or ill, make mistakes or successes. And like almost everyone, Jewish people are self-interested as individuals. Nor can it be lost on most that there have been pogroms unleashed and a recent, within living memory, genocidal holocaust that consumed millions just on the basis of being considered less than human “Jewish.”

    So, I’m not surprised with those givens, when some Jewish people support policies, even if sometimes misguided, that they believe are necessary to avoid victimhood again, a holocaust in which few of the rest of the world came to their rescue, only fighting their oppressors when they themselves felt threatened.

    It’s also no surprise when a nation of any human beings adopts policies that are unwise and unproductive to itself, or detrimental to the interests of another. I believe because of history, that Israel merits some special sensitivity due to past victimhood, to ensure that Jew hatred, “Judenhass,” doesn’t metastasize again to control powerful political and military forces. However, I also believe, along with thoughtful Jewish folks, that the Likud way is harmful to the Jewish people and Israel’s long term prospects, just as the imperial military course America is now on, is harmful to domestic democratic accountability and the survival of the United States in a form that lives up to the promise of its founding documents and Constitution.

    This is hardly antisemitism, since it seeks what is best for all involved, rather than repeating some of the very mistaken policies that animated conflict in the past with so much destruction and loss of lives, not to mention agitating future conflicts, including blowback for those bad policies that inevitably reaches these shores.

    There is a real “Hasbara” propaganda effort, often by well-intentioned but simpleminded Jewish students who are misled into thinking that false postings as virulent antisemites and as shills for Likud’s often dissembling talking points are a genuine service to the wellbeing of Israel and the diaspora. I would urge them to exercise critical thinking, become better informed and while not forsaking support for fellow Jews, try to view “the other” with genuine grievances as fellow full human beings and to try to put themselves in their shoes.

    If not now, when? If not me, then who?

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  89. @Fran Macadam

    “I believe because of history, that Israel merits some special sensitivity due to past victimhood, to ensure that Jew hatred, “Judenhass,” doesn’t metastasize again to control powerful political and military forces…”

    Suit yourself. I don’t particularly care about Jews individually or collectively, no matter where they live, and I’ll be damned if I put their interests above my own or those of my country. I also don’t give one damn about the holocaust, since it took place elsewhere, and most American Jews weren’t affected, anyway. With all the land, money, aid, etc. thrown at Jews over the last 70 years, they owe us lots of change by now. At this point, it’s pretty obvious that nowhere near 6 million Jews were actually murdered, and even if that were the case, their lives weren’t worth anything close to what has been spent/extracted on their behalf.

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  90. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @joe webb

    I don’t have a problem with zionism I just have a problem with stealing and murdering other people and their land. to put it as simply and unemotionally as I can, fuck the jews.

    So what are you doing in California? Jews are more indigenous to Israel than you are to California. Practice what you preach, you hypocrite.

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  91. Renoman says:

    Again, arseholes come in every color! As to the Jews, not many in my part of the World, the ones I’ve met are decent hard working folks so I’ll try to let that guide me. Viscous group today, should CTFD fellas. [Calm T F down]

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  92. Are the FIFA arrests about Israel?

    no

    Well then what can I learn from this article?

    avoid reading Giraldi.

    keep camels out of your tent

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  93. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “If not now, when? If not me, then who?”

    Well said, and I agree with your notion of fairness.

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  94. @Renoman

    ” Viscous group today, should CTFD fellas. [Calm T F down]”

    Can’t get much calmer than that.

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  95. @Sam Shama

    “Well said, and I agree with your notion of fairness.”

    Wow! No surprise there.

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  96. @Sam Shama

    @Sam Shama

    Prof Higgins lied. The Rain in Spain does NOT fall mainly on the Plain. Ask any hidalgo.

    Now you.

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  97. Nico says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    But how can the Jews of Israel be described as “one religious group”. While it is true that even atheist Jews may maintain some tribal/family customs like Friday night dinners it is really quite a stretch to treat Israel as being religiously monolithic within its Jewish community or communities.

    The problem is that – whether you consider yourself Christian or not – you have an eminently Christian-centric view of religious identity, and more specifically a social-confessionalist view of the sort that grew up in post-Reformation Europe. It is a view that was particularly influential in Holland and in the British Isles with the multiplicity of nonconformist sects that flourished alongside official Protestant cults as well as the Roman Catholic Church, and which was exported to the United States. In most of the rest of the world, it would be absurd to think of “a religion” first and foremost as something you “join” or in most cases even “choose,” as do many American Christians but also atheists, deistic and agnostics (many of these latter groups being so far removed from reality that whole they are perfectly aware that they came from apes several hundred thousand/several million years ago, they seem to have no idea that the intellectual undercurrent to which they cling is not a “blank slate” of human nature but in fact grew up in a very tumultuous phase of Christendom just a few hundred years back).

    True, Christians have always taught that one is not born a Christian but initiated through baptism – indeed, this ritual was concocted to allow anyone from any background of religious tradition to join in the Christian understanding of theology and expression of spirituality. Inevitably, though, as many generations baptized their children continuously, a specifically Christian culture and genetic civilization developed, one which is now being torn apart at the seams, but the tearing apart of which Christianity may very well survive nonetheless, if it successfully transitions to the seeking of mass adult converts as was done in the past.

    This is not the case for Judaism. For the Jew, Jewish ethnicity and belonging to the Jewish religion are one and the same. It used to be likewise for the Hindu, and has only changed because the staggering complexity and variety within the subcontinental religious traditions claimed under the umbrella of Hinduism made the region open to Christian social if not theological influence.

    By contrast, about the only influence Christianity has had on Jewish society has been to impose monogamy, and there, on only a part of the Jewish world has there been any success.

    It is not that Eurocentric or Christian-centric thought is a bad thing, but where such tendencies lead to naïve assumptions about how others see themselves (and us, and about how they would like us to see them), they need to be carefully cast aside.

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  98. William says:
    @Everyone Else

    The U.S. govt, including congress — both house and Senate — have already been taken over by agents of Israel. Israel, at least at the present time, controls U. S. Mideast policy.
    Americans are plenty smart, but they have no clue as to what is really happening in congress and in Palestine, Israel, Syria, Libya, or Iraq. Anyone interested can do a Google search and discover for himself that Jews dominate the U.S. media, both electronic and print. Jews either own the news organizations outright or else they control them through partial ownership, stock, and the very top positions in all these companies.
    I wonder if it is illegal to desecrate the flag of Great Britain, or the flag of Saudi Arabia, or the flag of Syria, or Lebanon, or Egypt. Or Israel.
    The U.S. is wallowing the a slough of ignorance deliberately fostered by the major media.

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  99. Sam Shama says:
    @Sure thing

    “Prof Higgins lied. The Rain in Spain does NOT fall mainly on the Plain. Ask any hidalgo.”

    Therein, the answer to the quizlet, my friend, lies the explanation you seek.

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  100. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “that the U.S. Federal Reserve has been engaged in debasing the U.S. economy through monetary policy”

    Sorry Sam – but you Jews are on the bad side of history on the Fed – you Passovers manage to screw up everything you touch?

    A Jew has been in charge of the Fed for 30 straight years. In that time, Jew wealth has skyrocket and the average American’s wealth has gone in the opposite direction.

    Bubbles Greenspan helped finance the junk bond king, the savings and loan criminal enterprise, the dot.com bubble, and the criminal housing bubble. Now it is working on a stock market bubble. Surprise surprise, with each bubble you Jews got richer.

    Bubbles turned America from a creditor nation into a debtor nation. In 1986 we had companies with fiduciary responsibilities, people had steady lifetime jobs, pensions, and good health care – not NOW!

    Thanks to Bubbles we now we have a nation of very very rich Jew oligarchs who politically and economically control our nation for the benefit world Jewry.

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  101. Sam Shama says:

    I wonder if all you Jew lovers, @Sure thing, @Art, @Nice Gentile Boy, @SolontoCroesus etc, etc, etc, realise the irony:

    You spew venom on a platform provided by a Jew, Ron Keeva Unz, who is hard at work suppressing your freedom.

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  102. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “So, I’m not surprised with those givens, when some Jewish people support policies, even if sometimes misguided, that they believe are necessary to avoid victimhood again…”

    The problem with this statement is that it is based on a false premise – the policies to which you refer have little to do with avoiding victimhood, they are meant to benefit (through preferential access to land, water, roads) one group at the expense of another. It’s that simple.

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  103. Since Jews admit among themselves that they are in control of every branch of the US government, I really don’t understand why they haven’t already demanded that Menorahs be installed above the entrances of every public building in Washington, including the Capitol building, the White House, the Pentagon, the Supreme Court building, the State Department building, and of course the US Treasury which came under Jewish control in 1913.

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  104. Nico says:
    @Fran Macadam

    I also believe, along with thoughtful Jewish folks, that the Likud way is harmful to the Jewish people and Israel’s long term prospects

    Regardless, you are clearly in the minority, at least lumped together among Jewish folks (or at least Israeli Jews who actually have to live in the situation over there).

    What everyone needs to know is that the modern state of Israel is a colony founded by yuppy socialist Ashkenazi who were later supplemented by bourgeois (and sometimes polygynous) Sephardim with a negligent and a tiny but highly ecclectic – sometimes charmingly so, sometimes annoyingly so – Hasedic Orthodox streak which has grown out of control at the expense of the former groups over the past forty or so years.

    Their neighbors plus the locals riddled among them, the Palestinians as we call them (somewhat strangely I might add, to the extent that the cultural continuity they show with the ancient Roman province of Palestine is specious at best), are mostly disgruntled Arabophonic Muslims whose real and perceived grievances they have chosen to throw in with the lot of anticolonial, antiwhite and anti-Christian terrorists, and increasingly with apocalyptic Salafist universalists.

    A minority of Palestinians, however, are Christians, some genuinely Arab but many descended from various Greek, Phoenician or Armenian speakers. They come under pressure from both Israelis and Muslims – though perhaps not as much so as their coreligionists elsewhere in the region (i.e. DAESH).

    Israeli, Palestinian… honestly, why any white gentile or Christian would attempt to apologize for either camp for any reason other than cynical self-interest is beyond me.

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  105. “The problem with this statement is that it is based on a false premise – the policies to which you refer have little to do with avoiding victimhood, they are meant to benefit (through preferential access to land, water, roads) one group at the expense of another. It’s that simple.”

    It’s speculative to definitively assign bad motives to adversaries and not helpful in moving forward with solutions that reduce violence based on hatred. You are right that the policies are to protect one ethnic group’s interests over another’s.

    In the same way, American policies are sold to our public as protecting Americans’ interests over that of other peoples, thereby achieving our support for them. It would be prescient to observe that in actuality these policies are against the interests of the vast majority and benefit the same special donorist interests who have bought the policies. The beneficiaries are hardly only Jewish, and the majority of American Jews are left out of their equation as much as every other average American. We all might be guilty of not being as well informed as we ought to be in a Republic that requires more than casual public interest in accountability, but the donorists are doing their utmost to keep us uninformed and themselves unaccountable to the electorate as they move governance behind closed doors. One might say our guilt is that of misinformed self-interest that justifies their policies that we receive nothing good from. Those participating have among them those of Jewish background, but they are most assuredly not the majority, and the loyalties first and foremost are to their own claque of wealth and power, whatever secondary interests there are. An ethnic enclave does contain its own traitors, particularly in leadership.

    One might expect Jews either here or in Israel to hew to a higher standard than the rest of humanity, but all we can observe is that they are in fact as human as the rest of us. As Hannah Arendt most uncomfortably reported the findings of the Eichmann trial, those who betray their own, as happened tragically during the Holocaust, do so out of vain and selfish character and raw self-interest.

    There is no doubt that putting oneself out to at least try to see the adversary’s point of view, might create a space of commonality where there is enough to pursue mutual goals and benefits. It is tragic that truly aggrieved groups think they cannot recognize the legitimacy of each other’s suffering, out of fear that doing so will undermine their own. The reality is precisely the contrary.

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  106. guest says:
    @Everyone Else

    “The purpose of dehumanizing a group of people, [sic] is to enable harming them without being restrained by feelings of empathy.”

    Lots of people empathize more with nonhumans than humans. When I watch “Braveheart,” for instance, with my family they are always more upset about the poor horses getting killed than the men. Not that camels are horses, and obviously the point of the camel’s nose adage is the camel’s a bad thing. Just wait, at least, for people to start comparing Jews to rats and cancer before going off on dehumanization, lest you find yourself advocating for all human communication on controversial subjects to read like instruction manuals.

    It’s not just folky anecdotes, fairytales, humor, and racism that uses anthropomorphization. Wave goodbye to a good chunk of classical literature, for starters. Do you really want to live in a world where we can’t compare men to animals? Where people’d have to read the Iliad in secret, like Winston Smith hiding his diary from the viewscreen?

    That’s hyperbole, I know. But so’s suggesting such an article as this is tantamount to encouraging genocide. I’m not alone in having chronic fatigue syndrome over keeping vigil against the dark forces if the universe plotting against Jewish lives. As if they’re the only people in the world ever in danger. And as if even if they are in a fight for their very existence it’s my business. It isn’t.

    By the way, Giraldi would have more to fear if Israel were more evil and he were a Palestinian or whomever else Israel views as its enemy. Since he lives where the money comes from, he has a lot less to fear.

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  107. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    While truly Israel doesn’t run an inquisition to determine what each citizen believes in his heart of hearts, and it doesn’t chuck out every heretic and nonbeliever, if there is any country on earth run by and for a single religion, or in this case religio-racial group (not that it’s as racially homogeneous as they pretend), it’s Israel.

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  108. guest says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    Is it okay to want to piss on the graves of WASP imbeciles, or is this just race vs. race, with no larger point? Doesn’t matter, I suppose, considering:

    1). It’s okay to be racist against WASPs, and

    2). I don’t think the author’s a WASP anyway.

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  109. guest says:
    @Fran Macadam

    It doesn’t always help the special interests, either. They’re often as bad at pursuing their ends as the supposed suckers they’re hoodwinking.

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  110. KA says:
    @Maj. Kong

    “Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.
    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

    Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. ‘
    http://www.mondoweiss.net

    She soon will be invited by Columbia University .WSJ will ask her to write some editorial .NYT wil discover the meanings of the statements:- ‘wiping off the map”

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  111. @Nico

    Nico, thank you for your learned and usefully informative disquisition. In the same spirit of precision I do note however that you do not catch me out because I was pointing out that there was none of that “religious” solidarity as you rightly point out “religious” is used in our once Christian world. I wouldn’t have quibbled if the word used had been “tribal” (Einstein referred to his “tribe”) or “ethnocentric”.

    Disraeli wouldn’t have had a problem with “race” or “racial” but the Nazis led to that word being off limits except when replacing the old-fashioned “racialist” with the “racist” ya-boo insult. I note that there is potentially a gain in precision as a result because “race” was obviously not an accurate pointer to persons of common genetic ancestry as used by those acclaiming their culture in the 19th century as in “this island race”.

    What is the best single word? What about the Jewish “people”? A young Jewish friend said his mother would be upset if he married outside “the community” although she obviously wouldn’t have minded if he had returned to Australia from Israel with an Israeli Jewish fiancée who would (be?) immediately become part of “the community”. I suspect that “largely inherited ethnicity and ethnic solidarity” would be unexceptionably accurate in most contexts though too cumbersome. N’est-ce pas?

    BTW what do you think will be the consequences institutionally, cultural and otherwise (in ways that matter and those that don’t) of Christianity becoming, by the numbers, a non-European religion, particularly African, but also counter-oligarchic Chinese?

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  112. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    OH! What suckers, we the US be!! A country our size stoops to kiss the butts of a postage size country-Israel!!!

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  113. @Art

    I come from the point of view of a non-Jewish admirer of the real J M Keynes – not the hate figure conjured up by economic illiterates who blame him for the vote seeking but otherwise stupid behviour of politicians since his death in 1946 but the genius who, given sufficient authority, would not have allowed the descent into 1960s stagflation.

    The Jewishness of Chairmen of the Fed is surely an irrelevant coincidence. Why so much qantitative easing with the so far unrealised threat of difficult to control inflation, property bubbles (again) and decline in the $US against the RenMin Bi? Because the largely non-Jewish Congress has persistently failed to provide competent and honest budgets which would – high on the list of priorities – spend the money that has been available at almost no cost from Chinese and Japanese savers on US infrastructure, including most urgently repairs of decaying infrastructure.

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  114. James says:
    @TheJester

    I couldn’t agree with you more! Giraldi has hit a nerve. That explains their wild rants and screams. Whether they like it or not, the days of the Israeli apartheid are numbered.

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  115. @Anonymous

    See my response to Nico. As indicated and explained I still think my quibble about the use of “religious” – a narrow point and not fundamental to anything but strict accuracy – is/was justified. Your contender to vie with “people”, “race”, “community” etc. is noted but it is both uncertain in its connotations and unjustifiably attached to religion.

    BTW I don’t know about the homogeneity that “they” pretend to. What are you saying? That some, and what (?) part of the Israeli community doesn’t recognise that the Ethiopian Jews who rioted in Tel Aviv a few weeks ago have black skins, low skills and a very different ancestry and history from that of lighter skinned Jews (themselves with several different labels)?

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  116. @Anonymous

    “If there is any country….”

    Really? Surely that depends on verbal sophistry given that there are many Muslim countries which don’t even tolerate the minor differences between Muslim sects (even if the law nominally does) and these are much more similar than the Haredi are to Reform, let slone atheist. And conversion to Islam is easy: to Judaism in Israel hard.

    I think your problem with Israel would be better expressed if you left the religion out of “religio-racial” (and “racial” maybe because it is now taboo!) and treated Israel as sui generis which might in theory be matched only by a Gypsy polity or Parsee or ???

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  117. Seraphim says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    @What is the best single word?

    It should be one which reflects the real characteristics of the object in discussion. Best thing is to use the terms with their original meaning (what did the Ancients understood by race, nation, people?)
    It should be a term which shows (or claims) descent from a common ancestor, either physical or spiritual who was venerated by a cult. Adoption (conversion) was considered assimilation.

    “In ancient Greece, a genos (Greek: γένος, “race, stock, kin”, plural genē – γένη) was a social group claiming common descent, referred to by a single name”…
    “In ancient Rome, a gens, plural gentes, was a family, consisting of all those individuals who shared the same nomen and claimed descent from a common ancestor. A branch of a gens was called a stirps (plural stirpes)”…
    “The word Gaṇa (Devanagari: गण), in Sanskrit, means “flock, troop, multitude, number, tribe, series, class”

    “In modern Russian, the word “rod” means “kin”, and “rozhenitsa” is “a woman in childbirth”.
    “In Romanian: neam (plural neamuri) = family, sort, kin, tribe, ancestry, lineage, descent, extraction, origin, nation, people”. Rasă is a neologism but used as synonym of neam.

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  118. @Sean

    There’s little doubt that Sepp Blatter and FIFA accept bribes, but so does virtually every other major sports organization. I suspect that the real reason behind why FIFA has incurred the righteous wrath of Israel, is because it is apparently one of the few international sports organizations not being run by the Jewish mafia.

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  119. @Sherman

    With all creditable research proving the 6 million holocaust a gigantic hoax, there’s no excuse for anyone not becoming a holocaust denier.

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  120. @Fran Macadam

    With respect, Fran Macadam, your position is the problem not the solution.

    1. It is factually incorrect to state that “Jews were subjected to holocaust ‘just because they were Jews.’ ” Hollywood filmmakers may have managed to convince the majority of American people that such is the case, but a step-by-step and year-by-year assessment, from ~1872 onward, of who did what to whom and why, gives proof resentment of Jewish people was not an uncaused cause. There were numerous and rational reasons why the German government pursued non-violent means over many years to reduce the impact of Russian- and Polish- Jewish immigration into post-war Germany, and also to take measure to resist the efforts at subversion of the German political and social order by Bolshevik Communists such as Grigory Zinoviev.

    The German people were starved to death, by the hundreds of thousands. In the inter-war/Weimar period; they experienced more starvation; waves of riots as Russian Communists led insurrections in German towns and cities; the destruction of the German money system and economy. They laid these harms at the feet of Jewish people because they saw with their own eyes that Jewish people — among others — were prominent in the leadership of activities that were bringing about the harms. The German people resisted more-or-less nonviolently for nearly 25 years; in the years from 1933 until November 1938, the NSDAP actually quelled violence against Jews in Germany, and no Jewish person was sent to a concentration camp until after November 1938.

    In an exchange with an audience member at a discussion of his book, “The Jewish Enemy”, Prof. Jeffrey Herf said to the audience member: “Germans did have good reason to resent the Jews. It was appropriate for them to take measures to remove those Jews who were causing trouble” [or words to that effect]. A stunning statement. To be sure, Herf continued, “But nothing gave Germans the right to kill Jews in gas chambers.”

    I agree with Dr. Herf: the German government had not only the right but the duty to remove subversives from their midst, and they did not have the right to kill Jews in gas chambers. I also agree with Bishop R. Williamson that there is no convincing evidence that Germans did kill Jews in gas chambers.

    2. If the holocaust (your Clause 1) is disqualified, then Clauses 2 and 3 do not hold water.
    Furthermore, it is the definition of racism to give preferential treatment to Jews, giving them leave to kill and steal with abandon, “just because they are Jews.”

    3. I also take issue with your unqualified regard for Hannah Arendt.

    In the 1966 number of The Commentary Reader, editor Norman Podhoretz published a essay by Arendt titled “Germany 1950,” and also an extensive report of a 1961 round-table discussion on the topic “Western Values and Total War.” Participants included Sidney Hood, H Stuart Hughes, Hans J Morgenthau, and C P Snow. Dr. Hughes, an historian who also fought in World War II, said:

    “Where I differ from some of my friends is in feeling that the great change came not with the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima but in 1943, when we began the terror bombardment of Germany. That’s where I think the character of war changed and the use of weapons of mass destruction began.
    Now, I think here one should apply a type of reasoning such as the theologians have always used. Presumably any war worth fighting . . .is in theological and moral terms a just war. I would argue to this day that World War II was a just war. But if I understand the theologians correctly, a war can only be considered just if the means are proportionate to the evil to be eradicated. Now it seems to me the means used against Hitler were proportionate until the terror bombing; and you did not need the terror bombing to win that war. It was both morally and technically stupid and wrong. ” (Commentary Reader, Norman Podhoretz, ed. c 1966, American Jewish Committee)

    Hughes argues that the United States and Britain committed war crimes against the German people.

    In the 1950 essay, Arendt castigated Germans for failing to concede that they deserved to be firebombed. Germans deserved to have their children reduced to smudges of ash on a church wall, or melted into boiling asphalt, according to Saint Hannah of Arendt.

    It is a nauseating exercise in the most vicious kind of vindictiveness.

    Contrast Arendt’s comments and attitude with those of Freda Utley in “The High Cost of Vengeance.” http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thcov/

    Watch or read “Hellstorm”, then review the words of Saint Hannah of Arendt.
    I dare you.

    http://www.amazon.com/Hellstorm-Death-Nazi-Germany-1944-1947/dp/1494775069%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-osx-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D1494775069

    Then come back and we’ll talk some more about the evil of banality.

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  121. “By the way, Giraldi would have more to fear if Israel were more evil and he were a Palestinian or whomever else Israel views as its enemy. Since he lives where the money comes from, he has a lot less to fear.”

    He agrees, I think, that since we don’t have much to fear here, that is good argument against being involved in wars of choice there. Moreover, that it is the counterproductive wars of choice there that generate the fears of blowback here, which are behind the draconian violations of Constitutional liberty felt necessary during wartime.

    With endless wartime, financial elites can feast upon endless war profits, achieved only at the cost of endless suspension of constitutional liberties; which after all are only of value to ordinary Americans, who unlike them cannot buy law.

    More power to the persuasive arguments of Phil Giraldi, who is neither so insular nor selfish as to not have a decent respect for the opinions of mankind, about interfering in the lives of others.

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  122. The Holocaust Deniers – who are always at the same time conveniently Jew haters. It’s an early version of Rod Dreher’s Law of Merited Impossibility – it never happened, but if it had, they would have deserved it.

    There is no doubt German society after World War I came under severe stress – defeat, ruinous war reparations, unsustainable loans from Wall Street, ensuing inflation, unemployment, penury, destruction of the middle class, leading to street violence, government instability and messianic demagoguery and scapegoating. Mainstream politicians could offer no solutions because there were no panaceas. At the same time, as with all people, no one wanted to take the blame – neither the people nor political class. Little wonder that a Hitler who assigned all blame to a convenient scapegoat minority and preached revenge could attract a mass following of a population so bereft of ordinary hope. Established morality lost its hold on the people. So discredited, it offered no brake on the excesses that followed.

    Treatises like Nicholson Baker’s Human Smoke prove that the atrocities occurred with contributions and complicity from multiple nations, including allies. There are few clean hands.

    And yes, war crimes were committed by all sides. Nevertheless, overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy, mixed with theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery.

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  123. @Carroll Price

    I take it you mean “credible” research.

    Please point me in the direction of credible research which shows

    1. The figure of 6 million Jews killed in the early 40s being reliably overstated by some millions – and how many millions;

    2. That the higher figure was got up as a hoax in some now clearly describable way (or that something else than the number killed was got up as a hoax and the details of that);

    3. That there was no concerted effort by senior Nazis to organise the destruction of European Jewry or at least that large part of it which couldn’t contribute to the war effort as slave labour.

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  124. @SolontoCroesus

    Many people have argued that the bombing of German cities was done in a way which was not properly directed at military advantage and Sir Arthur Harris suffered from that judgment by being unique amongst his British peers in being denied appointment to the House of Lords. The comparison with the treatment of Jews by the SS – and indeed the French police – is absurd. Just as Londoners sent their children, pregnant wives etc to the country during the Blitz so could German civilians in cities likely to be bombed. Jews had no similar or comparable option.

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  125. @Fran Macadam

    One might expect Jews either here or in Israel to hew to a higher standard than the rest of humanity,

    You must be from Colorado.

    They smoke some weird stuff there.

    PLEEEEEZE explain how it is not bigotry of the highest order to “expect JEWS . . .to hew to a higher standard …”

    What is the source of this “higher standardism?”
    Is it in the religion?
    There are arguments roiling on this forum that many Jews, in Israel and USA, are not religious at all.
    So is the “higher standardism” in the genes? in the blood? Does that mean it’s — racial???

    Do you get your information about Nazi Germany from that same source as Wizard of Oz when he/she says “the Nazis led to that word [racial] being off limits except when replacing the old-fashioned “racialist” with the “racist” ha-boo insult [whatever that means].” How is your ascription of the “higher standardness of Jews” different from Wiz. of Oz’s claim that Nazis were racist?

    It would be a service to all mankind if commenter like Wizard of Oz created a database for us skeptics, to convince us that what he/she believes to true actually has a foundation in reality.

    The database will need to provide excruciating detail, citing sources and full context, of Nazi racialism, with special attention paid to detailing how Nazis killed people just because they were not blond and blue-eyed, and killed Jews just because they were Jews; and refrained from killing people just because they were blonde and blue-eyed and just because they were not Jews.

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  126. “PLEEEEEZE explain how it is not bigotry of the highest order to expect JEWS . . .to hew to a higher standard …”

    Well, some bigots demand of Jewish people a standard of behavior they don’t expect from their own tribe, and condemn an entire people for what their own do as well without disapprobation.

    So yes, it is bigoted to demand of Jews a standard that their accusers can’t keep either, on pain of racial condemnation.

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  127. joe webb says:
    @Anonymous

    To Anon. What was done to the indigenous in N. America was done and over by 1850. That was a different Time with different rules.

    The UN declaration of human rights, and the big civil war between Whites was over and the principles of international law established …. before the jews stole Palestine. And then stole it again in 1967, and continue to do the same thing, etc. And it is not just law, there is Public Opinion which had changed for the better…stop invading other people. Something that I think is a good rule. Jews today are cheerleading the invasion of White lands by darkies….another gift from the Jews.

    My father, if I was a jew ( and thank you lord for not making me a jew) would have been guilty, as well as my grandfather , for theft of a country in 1948, but not in 1848, etc. This is obvious.

    Should the injuns have killed every one of us whites starting in 1610? Of course. Should the Arabs kill every last jew now? of course.

    Furthermore, the jews are starting world war three, maybe. No world wars were started by whites invading the Americas. 16 million jews think they are worth , say a billion whites and arabs. They are not worth anything , except what it costs to nuke Israel and their submarines.

    There is that famous rabid rabbi who exclaimed that umpteen thousand arabs are not worth one jew fingernail. right.

    You folks deserve to die for your arrogance alone, not to mention so many other things.. Personally, I would not participate in any jew killing, but I would not lift one fingernail to prevent others from removing you all permanently.

    Joe Webb

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  128. @Wizard of Oz

    The facts dictate a dramatically different interpretation of events, Wizard of Oz.

    The British as well as the Americans deliberately planned, prepared, rehearsed and perfected tactics to kill working-class German civilians with the defined goal of provoking terror.

    I don’t know much about the British firebombing campaign.

    I do know that FDR’s administration acquired territory in the desert in Utah at Dugway where they build full-scale and precisely-detailed mock-ups of German and Japanese workers’ housing.

    read about it yourself here —

    http://lcweb2.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ut/ut0500/ut0568/data/ut0568data.pdf

    (note especially p. 16:

    In the bedroom, the single beds were placed together in pairs, with a crib ■adjacent, reflective of a young family with an infant.

    I’m aware that in Israel children are considered a military threat, but the statement above indicates that the U S Air Force was planning and practicing to kill civilians, including infants. There is no way that statement can be stretched or interpreted to suggest the destruction of civilian housing and the residents of same was “collateral damage” in the path to military targets.

    Listen in as Jorg Friedrich describes the psychological campaign that accompanied the firebombing — http://www.c-span.org/video/?196223-1/book-discussion-fire-bombing-germany-19401945
    Friedrich explains that the goal of firebombing was not to kill Hitler and/or the German military & political leadership — they didn’t live in the sort of workers housing that was replicated at Dugway. Rather, the goal was to force the capitulation of the German and Japanese leadership by, in effect, holding German and Japanese civilians hostage and killing them off.

    re “Jews had no option” [to leave cities that were to be firebombed].

    So tell me Wizard, How many Jews died in the firebombing of German cities?
    Are there memorials in the supernumerous museums to the holocaust that memorialize Jews killed in the firebombing of German cities?
    It may be the case that Jews were safer in concentration camps in the East than to remain in German cities.

    Let’s cycle back to a discussion in another article —

    According to Rabbi Stephen Wise, in his autobiography, The Challenging Years, p. 242, and quoted in Edwin Black’s “The Transfer Agreement,” on or before Feb. 14, 1933 Louis Brandeis said to Rabbi Wise, “All Jews must leave Germany. . . . I urge that no Jew remain in Germany.”
    Wise replied, “How shall we get 587,000 people out of Germany?”
    Brandeis waved aside Wise’s incredulity and insisted that the thing must be done: “All Jews must leave Germany.”

    Beyond coincidental that Brandeis directed Wise to get Jews out of Germany — but not Russia, Poland, Hungary, etc. — six years before a war broke out.

    Wizard of Oz wrote:

    “Just as Londoners sent their children, pregnant wives etc to the country during the Blitz so could German civilians in cities likely to be bombed.”

    Number one, seven million people were “de-housed.” How do you move- and where do you find shelter for- 7 million people?

    Second, Dresden was considered a “safe city.” It had no military facilities and it was presumed that its status as a repository of cultural treasures would be respected. For that reason, thousands of refugees sought shelter in Dresden. Dresden was overflowing with persons fleeing other cities threatened by bombing when the Allies bombed it.

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  129. @Fran Macadam

    Well, some bigots demand of Jewish people a standard of behavior they don’t expect from their own tribe, and condemn an entire people for what their own do as well without disapprobation.

    Be specific.

    What is demanded of Jews that is not expected of any/all other tribes?

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  130. Seraphim says:
    @Carroll Price

    @FIFA Corruption,

    I am sure that the real corruption of FIFA, UEFA, you name it, is the match-fixing practice. It is universal, as old as the game and in very many cases “intangible” (nobody would ever know what money passed under the table, what favors have been done to third parties, how much money the bidders and bookmakers with inside knowledge made). No doubt FIFA functioned as an extortion racket, a money laundering machine, a cash cow. Actually “the beautiful game” itself is a contraption to milk money from the imbecilic masses. The more idiots fill the stadiums cheering at 22 morons elevated to semi-divine status chasing a ball, the more money line the pockets of the cynical managers of these “circenses” (the most efficient, time-honored means of crowd control and numbing of political dissent). Disband FIFA, let people play football in their back yards just for their and their spectator friends enjoyment, and the World would be hundred times better.
    Russia should renounce to hold the Championship as she renounced the Marshall Plan after the War. Go and play all your championships in England, you invented the game, after all, stick it up… (I mean stick to it).

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  131. @Sam Shama

    Ja, wir werden sehen, als wir vorher schon gesehen haben.

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  132. @International Jew

    A jew talking about where does the money come from… This is the height of comedy.

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  133. @David

    Damn, really? No wonder the hicks in the south are so accepting. Ahh, to be a fly in the Israeli airport.

    Did they miss the episode where Jesus was in the temple chasing out the money changers? Have they not read Luther?
    “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

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  134. I don’t find too much of a problem with equating the bombing of major cities with terrorism but I think it is all of a piece with mutual attempts in WW1 to starve the enemy via U boat attacks and blockades. Nothing special there and the concept of war crime would be anachronistic btw.

    The transporting of Jews from occupied Europe to Auschwicz, Treblinka etc was, despite its having an economic aspect through its use of slave labour part of the program which started with the shooting of thousands of Jews in Poland, the Soviet Union and the Baltic States. It was the killing of Jews as untermenschen in accordance with Hitler’s and Himmler’s obsessions.

    I’m not sure what your point is about Brandeis’s wise view. As it happens most Jews who were in Germany in 1933 did escape the Holocaust. As Hitler certainly didn’t want foreigners to understand how ruthless he could be and how far he was willing to go in attacking Jewry it is not surprising that German Jews in the end fared much better than the generally poorer, stranger and much more numerous Ost Juden who were inter alia taking up part of the Lebensraum.

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  135. @Andrei Martyanov

    Finally, some common sense… I felt that we got jewed, too, but Qatar and Saudi Arabia help the USA against the Shiites which helps Israel against Iran. If we were serious we would get rid of our military base in Qatar.

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  136. @Sam Shama

    Funny how a Jew’s freedom is a function of everyone else losing their freedom.

    Oh, Mr. Schama, since you made the Wagner joke, I’ve attended the Bayreuther Festspiel. I make frequent visits to Wagner’s grave. I’ve probably been there 50 times. This year I couldn’t access it due to the museum they’re building, so I went to pay my respects to Liszt.

    You’re not the Jew who made the BBC History of Britain are you, or is that your cousin? I always found that hilarious, considering what was contained in the Magna Carta, that a Jew with the name of Schama would be lecturing us about the history of Great Britain.

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  137. Nico says:
    @Fran Macadam

    One might expect Jews either here or in Israel to hew to a higher standard than the rest of humanity

    I typically expect people to hold themselves to the same standard of conduct they hold everyone else.

    Namely, if Jews are going to have their ethnic separatist colony in the Middle East, then I ask them to refrain from criticizing or subverting European colonies or racial segregation/apartheid therein.

    And if they are going to be asking for moral support and material aid and recognition from the West and the West’s colonies, then return the favor and actively denounce those elements from within which do engage in such criticism and/or subversion.

    Some of them ARE so consistent, such as Ilana Mercer (though her father was an anti-apartheid demonstrator – clearly not everything is so simple). Many are not.

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  138. Seraphim says:
    @Carroll Price

    Hey, time is not lost! Be patient, you’ll see them soon (everywhere). Don’t worry (but not happy).

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  139. Seraphim says:
    @WotansSohn

    @You’re not the Jew who made the BBC History of Britain?

    That one is Simon, but sam(e) BS.

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  140. @Sam Shama

    I’ve noticed that numerous times, Sam the Pharaoh.

    It’s one more example of the knock-on effect of organizations like ADL, the holocaust industry, CAMERA, etc. censoring and controlling the discourse. No dynamic website or media outlet of broad reach that I am aware of is not gate-kept by someone who is Jewish.

    I don’t listen to radio anymore — NPR has Jewish gatekeepers, the Irishmen demagogues serve Jewish masters and would not/do not stand up for Palestinian rights , for example, much less American interests in preference to Israel’s and super-sensitivity to Jews similar to the position that Fran Macadam spelled out. Even Democracy Now is run by a Jewish person.

    I haven’t turned on a television set in years.

    I do watch C Span programming and exploit its archive. C Span is massively skewed toward the Jewish-Israel pov; if a C Span moderator failed to bend the knee in front of Israel or Jewish interests, CAMERA or ADL would call him/her on the carpet. What Deborah Lipstadt did to the Connie Doebele was and is shameful and repugnant. It was also a warning that C Span journalists have absorbed: Thou shalt go this far and no farther; we are watching you.
    A tally of the number of times neoconservatives have been hosted by C Span compared to the times persons or groups that I consider more representative of American interests unbiased by obeisance to Israel — persons like Phil Giraldi, Col. Pat Lang, Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett, (who is Jewish and whom I count as a friend), Juan Cole, Stephen Cohen (also Jewish) shows a stark disparity.

    nb. Speaking of Col. Lang — his website, Sic Semper Tyrannis, offers a robust, but moderated, forum for extremely well-informed discussion and debate of US foreign policy and other topics. It does not have the reach that even a forum as limited as Unz.com enjoys. The same might be said of Moon of Alabama, Going to Tehran, and The Vineyard of the Saker.

    A chart of witnesses called to give testimony before US Congress and Senate would display a similar, steep pro-Jewish pro-Israel bias. For example, yesterday Sen. Corker’s committee taking testimony about a P6 -Iran agreement heard Martin Indyk, a strident zionist who has carried water for Israel and Jewish interests for over 30 years, and James Jeffrey, who similarly seems to seek to serve Israel’s and Saudi Arabia’s interests more zealously than those of the American people or even of the rule of law — and common sense– argue that the US Congress should put in place an authorization to use military force against Iran preemptively, against the possibility that an Iran agreement is not concluded, or that Iran fails to comply with an agreement that might be concluded.
    This is an extraordinary proposal that mirrors very closely the activities of primarily Jewish as well as American Anglophiles and the British in engineering a war against Germany.

    The informed views of

    It is not unlikely that Frank Luntz or someone like him functions behind the scenes at C Span.

    It is a slam-dunk certainly that C Span’s 3-hour Washington Journal program functions as a focus group/conditioning agent to discern and then shape the opinions of the American people, all while appearing to be “the most fair and balanced of them all.” I have compiled a back-of-the-envelope (actually, Excel sheet) of the times that various C Span moderators have said, “Do you trust Iran,” or “Can we trust Iran,” and compared that list with the number of times they have asked “Can we trust Israel?” Take a wild guess how that turns out.

    The bottom line is that Jewish voices dominate the discourse, and that Jewish censorship functions to silence other voices and views or at very least to impose a chilling effect on expressions of views that Jews and Israelis do not wish to reach the American public.

    This is as self-indicting and counterproductive to the Jewish people as it is dangerous to the sustenance of the American Constitutional republic.

    “A popular Government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives.” – James Madison

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  141. Big Bill says:
    @Fran Macadam

    It isn’t “bigotry” that expects and sets double standards, it is “Judaism” that does so.

    A fundamental tenet of Judaism is that Jews are literally God-given moral leaders of all humanity. Their duty (not choice) is to “heal the world” (tikkun olam). This is so serious that there is a magazine distributed to Jewish subscribers all over the world called “Tikkun Olam”.

    Jews (particularly liberal Jews) deeply believe in this and teach it to every generation. In fact, their duty as God’s emissaries on earth is so extreme that Jewish feck – ups are considered to bring shame to GOD not just shame to the Jewish people (“a shanda fur de goyim”).

    Jewish men are so proud of their special cosmic duties that they wake every morning and all over the world repeat the same prayer: “Thank you God that you have not made me a woman or a goy.”

    When you set yourself up as God’s chosen moral leaders to the entire freaking universe, don’t get all sulky and wonder why there are double standards. You created them. You teach them. And you will have to live with them

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  142. alexander says:
    @Sam Shama

    Dear Mr Shama,
    and Mr Giraldi,

    It may be that Mr Giraldi is not that familiar with the “economics” of our current “reality”,
    …But I AM…and I have been studying “economics” for over 35 years !
    Our current predicament has little to do with the existence of the “Federal reserve” and everything to do with the fact that our “government ,under the tutelage of the Neocons” has EXCEEDED its income by close to NINE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS per year,on average,every year, over the past FIFTEEN YEARS ! This annualized deficit has MUSHROOMED our National DEBT from 5.6 trillion dollars in 2000 to over 18.25 TRILLION DOLLARS today !
    How do we pay for this OBSCENE OVERSPENDING ?….we borrow money… from future generations of Americans………. Our grand children and great grand children will have to pay back the debt we have accrued today !
    That Borrowing from our FUTURE is where the FEDERAL RESERVE comes in……that Nine hundred billion has to come from somewhere….so we PRINT IT !
    Yes, the Federal reserve “prints” the money we owe the future to pay off the shortfall that we create today !
    …And it is this activity that creates what we all call our “National Debt” !

    It is the amount of money we owe ourselves down the line for all the overspending we do today!

    Now the Obama Administration has actually done a pretty good job navigating us OUT of the financial catastrophe of 2009…and he has raised taxes just enough, and cut spending just enough to generate a bit more revenue and bring our overall” OVERSPENDING” down to 500 billion per year…..that is still a lot…but, at least, it is in the right direction….
    Today, the US Government brings in 3.1 trillion per year and spends 3.6 trillion per year!

    It is still way too much”OVERSPENDING” for our nation to remain solvent !

    On this score, Mr Giraldi is 100% correct and unfortunately for all of us, Mr Shama, its not a “TROPE” its a FACT!

    To be in “Survival shape ” we either need to be bringing in 3.6 and spending 3.6 …or … spending 3.1 trillion and and bringing in 3.1 ! Our government would, in this case, be”balancing the books”, but unfortunately due to the HEINOUS NEOCON OVERSPENDING over the last fifteen years, that is still not enough to stave off our nations eventual insolvency.

    To be in “Fair shape” we would want the revenue the government brings in to exceed what it spends by at least what we owe in INTEREST on our national debt..which at the “current rate” is 250 billion dollars a year. so a “fair shape” scenario would be spending 3.6 and bringing in 3.85 OR bringing in 3.1 and spending 2.85 !

    This scenario balances the books, pays the interest on what we OWE… but still leaves the HUMONGOUS 18.5 trillion National debt in a “deferred state of limbo”.

    To be in “good shape” we would want the revenue the government brings in to exceed what it spends by enough to” balance the books” ,pay the “interest” , and then have a little more to, in fact, pay down the debt… by even a fraction….

    This scenario IS the road to” solvency” , because every year the national debt is reduced ,so too is the interest we have to pay on it. Balancing the books becomes easier , over time, as less of our governments revenue is swallowed by the debt and the interest we pay on it !

    Now , why is the 13 trillion dollars in NEOCON OVERSPENDING over the last 15 years so HEINOUS ?….. because most of that overspending has gone to fighting wars of aggression and ..because “Wars of Aggression: are EVIL, Mr Shama !Its what Hitler did !
    The American People were “defrauded “into a war of aggression in Iraq,by the Neocons..and defrauded out of the ‘trillions” we spent to wage it…To deceive us into doing that is not a “mistake” its a HEINOUS ACT OF TERRORISM !..
    Now I , for one,do not give a HOOT about the “ethnicity” of the DEFRAUDERS…just that they be locked away either in Guantanamo bay or federal prison for doing it !Moreover, EVERY CENT of profit that they made from their DECEPTION needs to be returned to the American People……..
    I do not think Mr Giraldi cares very much about their “ethnicity” either, but in deference to the “integrity” of his character, and his thirty five years experience in his “field”…He has seen this pattern of ” “aggression” , “fraud ” and “deception”, OVER TIME,not emanating from MOROCCO , ( for if it was Morocco, he would SAY SO) but emanating from ISRAEL and its apparent neocon acolytes in the “Office of Special Plans” !….and he doesn’t like it !
    Nobody does !

    The American People do not like to be defrauded into killing other people that never attacked us…And we do not like to be defrauded out of ANY money let alone trillions of dollars, to do it !

    Are you suggesting, Mr Shama, that we SHOULD like it ?

    I appreciate President Obama’s “patronage” in his ascent to the white house, and his apparent need to” tip toe” through the tulips of political temerity, but FRAUD IS FRAUD and these individuals, regardless of their “ethnicity” need to be taken down ! fluffy talk is not enough !

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  143. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “The Holocaust Deniers – who are always at the same time conveniently Jew haters. It’s an early version of Rod Dreher’s Law of Merited Impossibility – it never happened, but if it had, they would have deserved it. ……………………………. Nevertheless, overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy, mixed with theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery.”

    Quite. Could not have put it any better.

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  144. Sam Shama says:
    @WotansSohn

    Lo.
    Ma she’atem olkhim lirot, ze’yihe raq takhat shelanu, ya ben zona

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  145. KA says:
    @Everyone Else

    Can you ask Juan Cole, Mr Jovel, Mr Salilata, Helen Thomas, Octavia Nasr, Jim Clancy, ,Sanchez ,Desmond Tutu, whta happened to their rights of free speech, truth telling, jobs and the promotions?

    In UK Labor MP’s and even Tory MPS had to resign party post for saying things that Isarelis discuss among themselves ( apartheid,occupation ) all the times

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  146. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “This is as self-indicting and counterproductive to the Jewish people as it is dangerous to the sustenance of the American Constitutional republic.”

    So Big Zion made it onto your list of the greatest challenges to the American Republic, after all, … as it rightly should.

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  147. KA says:

    AID TO ISRAEL–

    If that were the case ( that Israel didnt depend on handdouts from US)why Schummer , Ilea Rothan,Liberman,and a few others went out of their way to make sure that no cuts were initiated in aid while cuts acrsoos the board for US services and payments was planned . They even met Israeli lobby and leaders to pass that information.

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  148. geokat62 says:
    @alexander

    Extremely well put!

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  149. @Sam Shama

    Sham and the Pharaoh,

    1. That someone else should attach to SolontoCroesus the tag “antisemite” is totally irrelevant to what SolontoCroesus thinks, says and does. Absoluteley meaningless. A fart in a windstorm.

    2. Speaking of scatology — Grate Deign posted a reductio ad absurdum comment that pivoted on a septic system problem. GD expanded on the septic theme by discussing products used while using the toilet.

    SolontoCroesus responded with an extended quote which was written by Etan Bloom in his dissertation for the PhD at Tel Aviv university. The source of the extended quote by Bloom was embedded in the quote. The “scatological” discourse was Bloom’s doing, not that of SolontoCroesus.

    3. I am aware that Gertrude Stein was Jewish. She was also passionately anti-zionist — see her poem/essay, “The Reverie of the Zionist” (1920)

    I know all about the war I have been in France ever since the peace.
    Remember what was said yesterday.
    We can think and we know that we love our country so.
    Can we believe that all Jews are these.
    Let us remember that the little bird of all is not the one that has the singing dell. It sings and it sings and a great many people say it is not pleasant.
    Is it likely that there is real grief.
    Anywhere there are beards and everywhere there are girls and all about there is a wealth of imagery.
    I saw all this to prove that Judaism should be a question of religion.
    Don’t talk about race.
    Race is disgusting if you don’t love your country.

    I don’t want to go to Zion. This is an expression of Shem.

    3. SolontoCroesus IS my own name.
    The aspect of Croesus that animates my identity is not the late king of Lydia’s wealth but his failure to interpret the oracle (or history) properly, which resulted in the defeat of Lydia by Persia and Croesus’s loss of his kingdom.

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  150. pyrrhus says:
    @Joseph Trumpeldor

    What Geraldi is saying must have truth to it, since it elicits mindless ad hominem attacks and name calling of the lowest kind….

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  151. @Sam Shama

    Nevertheless, overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy, mixed with theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery.”

    Recently Robert Cohen declared that

    Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.G3GTHCEG.dpu

    Based on that certainty, surely you have documentation for your bold declaration that

    “overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy,”

    and also that theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery were “explicit features of Nazi policy.”

    Kindly provide explicit documentation to support those statements.

    Put up or STFU.

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  152. Quite apart from any valid issues raised [eg., whether it was in US interest to support Israel's foundation, or the many ways in which Israel has abused its power in recent decades especially], I don’t see how it is shocking that Israel is a state that “benefits only one religious group”.

    Despite the comical debate recently about formally writing it down that Israel is a Jewish state, it was indisputably founded as a Jewish state, in order to ensure that there WAS a Jewish state, and most if not all of the discourse on it the past 67 years has referred to it one way or another as “the Jewish state”. Even looking at it purely from a religious perspective, at the time it was founded this idea was not shocking to most people. America may have largely been legally secular in some sense, and fairly egalitarian toward non-Christian citizens as its principles required, but plenty of law and practice biased towards the Christian religion by current standards. MANY Western nations continued to have state churches at the time and the laws on education and many aspects of social life benefited Christians disproportionately. The entire Muslim world operated on the assumption that Islam and the state were massively overlapping where not wholly coextensive.

    A good deal of that is still true today, albeit decreasingly so. In the Muslim world, it has arguably increased since 1948. They of all peoples have no business complaining about identifying the state with one religion.

    And since a majority of the world, Jewish and not, seems agreed on the idea that “Jewish” describes a people as well as a religion [Miliband seemed to think he would have been the UK's first Jewish PM, despite explicitly not following the Jewish faith], there is an equally important dimension. If the Jews are a people, why should their state not be identified as the Jewish state?

    The Arabs aren’t about to declare any of their states multicultural despite Arabs being a conquest population in many of them, and despite the ongoing existence of large pre-Muslim and pre-Arab populations in some of them. The Iranians are a bit more broad-minded, although they have done some work Persianizing the state at various times. They have to be, since Iranians are barely a majority and huge chunks of their history were actually driven by Turkic peoples.

    Westerners have moved away from this attitude, although the average person perhaps less so than the elites. But it was not so long ago that no one would have challenged the idea that the French state is such, the possession of the French people. And not too long before that they even closely identified Frenchness with the Catholic religion. The Irish took a similar view until the day before yesterday. And they likely still see that island as the rightful possession of people whose ancestors were there before 1170, with maybe a bit of flexibility for those whose Old English forebears stuck to the old religion in the convulsions of the Reformation.

    And normally I expect this site to be a place where Westerners generally still favour that attitude.

    It’s fair to note that Jews generally don’t grant these privileges to others and to find it annoying. But overall I’m prepared to grant them the forms of identity and possession and statehood I would like to claim for my own country if I could.

    As to ethnic cleansing, come on. How many countries have not done that?

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  153. Sam Shama says:
    @Carroll Price

    “Since Jews admit among themselves …….”

    Were you that fly I noticed on the wall during the last secret meeting we held? That would explain the command of grammar and prose.

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  154. geokat62 says:

    “But overall I’m prepared to grant them the forms of identity and possession and statehood I would like to claim for my own country if I could.”

    Who do you think may have uttered these words, before? I’ll give you a clue: it rhymes with Sitler.

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  155. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    ” SolontoCroesus IS my own name”

    How interesting! You must be the chap popularising all the Greek yoghurt at the greengrocer’s !

    I would tell all here : Cavete Danaos et dona ferentis!

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  156. @random observer

    But it was not so long ago that no one would have challenged the idea that the French state is such, the possession of the French people. And not too long before that they even closely identified Frenchness with the Catholic religion.

    Indeed.
    It was Jews who erased France’s close identification of Frenchness with the Catholic religion.

    That was what the Dreyfuss affair was all about.

    As Ruth Harris explained in a series of lectures at the (Jewish) Mosse Center at University of Wisconsim – Madison, the situation that resulted in Alfred Dreyfuss being imprisoned could have been settled easily and bureaucratically by Christian bureaucrats who had the authority and willingness to to so. They were held off from accomplishing that goal by the behind-the-scenes machinations of Jewish financier Joseph Reinach.

    Through a series of well-placed “investments” — payoffs to various groups — as well as duplicitous letters and expressions of deep friendship toward French politician Auguste Scheurer-Kestner, a friendship that proved to be not merely false but cruelly so, Reinach set about accomplishing his goal: blackening the name of and eroding the status of Jesuits, whom Reinach hated, and de-coupling France from its “close identification with the Catholic religion.”

    Susannah Heschel’s book, “The Aryan Jesus,” suggests that Jews bore/bear similar antagonism against Germans for their efforts to define the Christian beliefs of the German people in terms that did not include Jewish beliefs.

    A subtler but similar campaign seeks to erode those elements of Christian identity that define the American political order. Jews and the addle-brained Christo-zionists who have been raptured into fantasizing about Israel as a next-world Disneyland can quote and seek to reenact many of the genocidal practices found in the Old Testament but are not equally conversant with the Sermon on the Mount or the real implications of the Temptations of Jesus.

    How Jewish people identify themselves in Israel is of far far less concern to me than is the distortion in moral, cultural, social and political values sought to be imposed on the United States Constitutional republic by Jewish Israel-firsters and the people they have paid or brainwashed to support them.

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  157. @Sam Shama
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  158. Sam Shama says:
    @alexander

    Honestly I have not the inclination to engage you in a meaningful discussion of macroeconomic models and finance. Suffice it to say that your “35 years of study” while certainly exceeding my years, amount to little more than shouting a curious mixture of liquidationism and morality. I do wish you would recognise that economics has very little to do with morality.

    US Budget Deficits have been dropping quite precipitously, if you had not noticed. We have a slight problem on the longer term debt, having to do with rising Healthcare costs, but nothing that cannot be fixed with some more growth and a bit more inflation (core PCE) over 2%. So that is the goal.

    I offer for your enlightenment, the views of a Nobel Laureate:

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/us-external-debt-a-curious-case/

    and:

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/04/07/the-fiscal-future-ii-not-enough-debt/

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  159. At the risk of inciting to genocide by using an animal analogy, Jews (and some other people as well, like Americans but not, I insist, not Iranians and not Palestinians) are like the birds who have been spreading straw in the eaves above the front door over the past week.

    They hang their lengths of straw and grass all across the beam, not building a nest but seemingly just marking the territory.
    Since the straw hangs down and would annoy or dirty the postman and anyone else passing through the front door, I remove the straw.
    The next day the territory-markers are back in place. I remove them and by the end of the day they are back.

    The neighborhood is surrounded by trees — trees everywhere, big trees, small trees, bushy and spindly trees and bushes a-plenty. The birds can fly to any level of the trees that they desire — levels that the average person cannot reach.

    Why do they feel compelled to claim territory at my front door?

    PS I should add that birds have already made use of an opening to the attic to build there nest, lay their eggs and hatch them. All in the safety and security — and dearly paid for heat — of my attic space. No problem. We can share. Nurturing new life is a wonderful thing.

    But now you seek to keep your bird’s beak/camel’s nose in my tent at my front door.
    Enough.

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  160. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    After you produce proof of your name and Lydian citizenship

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  161. In other words you do not have documentary evidence and cannot prove in a credible way that

    overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy, mixed with theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery.

    In a court of law, when one side cannot prove his case, he is called the loser.

    In a debate, when one side cannot prove his case, he is called the loser.

    In the rational world, when one recognizes that he cannot prove his argument, he changes his argument or is deemed non compos mentis

    So which is it:
    Are you ignorant?
    Are you insane?
    Talking out of your ass?
    Or a goddam liar?

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  162. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Have you the title to the property you call your own, including proof of payment? Because apparently some Others dispute this mendacious claim.

    The Birds on the other hand, fly where they will, and have the documents that pre-date anyone else’s.

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  163. @SolontoCroesus

    Not to add fuel to the fire, but I’ll go with goddam liar.

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  164. @Sam Shama

    stop embarrassing yourself Sam Shama.

    You cannot stand behind wild-ass claims that you made.

    Don’t try to Weisel [sic] out of the situation with lame attempts at humor.

    You are a liar.

    You & others you support lied as a result of which millions of people died.

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  165. Sam Shama says:

    I see (upon returning from a bit of portfolio re-balancing), the members of the Holocaust Denial bestiary have been hard at work:

    http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-967587

    and

    http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-967603

    among numerous others.

    At the risk of bestowing respectability on the repugnant claims, it falls on Yours truly, to observe on behalf of the civilised world, that the documents relating to the “Final Solution” and extermination of the Untermensch, was restricted to only the very top echelons of the Nazi leadership and destroyed just prior to defeat in 1945. All of this was revealed during the Nuremberg Trials.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost#cite_note-Schmuhl-5

    and

    https://books.google.com/books?id=gjOO6ui8SIkC&pg=PA186&vq=nearly+all+wartime+documentation&dq=%22Zamo%C5%9B%C4%87+Uprising%22+-wikipedia&source=gbs_search_s&sig=HXqsSX2FqIasbygYMEuzWv_iMzo&hl=en#v=onepage&q=nearly%20all%20wartime%20documentation&f=false

    So naturally, today, the children of the erstwhile butchers, fully complicit in the crime ask for documentation.

    There should some limits one would hope, nay demand, for scurrilous commentary.

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  166. @Sam Shama

    Yep Shama, that was me on the wall alright. But shortly after you left the room, a most interesting thing occurred. A fat Jewish banker sitting up near the speaker’s platform tried to catch me to sell for a profit.

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  167. Sam Shama says:

    Mr. Giraldi you say that you have never been a Holocaust Denier, yet have no compunction about extending the platform for it, to so many here.

    Still I suppose,”… it’s quite allright”, as my Survivor Grandmother would say, whenever confronted by the very same behaviour.

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  168. No doubt Phil Giraldi is near to the side of the angels, but the Devil has certainly dispatched his own to discredit him through proximity to his possessed in the Comments section.

    I find it ridiculous that some of these invincibly ignorant would actually make universalist ad hominem attacks based on Jewish ethnicity alone … by misquoting the religious leader formerly known as Yeshua.

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  169. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “Don’t try to Weisel [sic] out of the situation…..”

    Not at all, as we remain vigilant that you not Heydrich [sic] it.

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  170. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Bravo, I have the same suspicions. And, I am enjoying the wailing of the Israel Firsters.

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  171. @Sam Shama

    Who has denied the concentration camps, or that the Nazis wished to rid Germany of Jews and play with demographics in conquered lands? One can acknowledge those things and still see holes in the official story.

    Even if the official story is 100% correct, it doesn’t put Americans on the hook for Israel, or excuse the obvious corruption that the Jewish and Israeli lobbies have brought to our shores.

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  172. Sam Shama says:
    @Carroll Price

    inadvisable use of effort, I must say, for mere simoleon, with the added risk of foot-in-mouth disease.

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  173. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “….by misquoting the religious leader formerly known as Yeshua.”

    Indeed.

    Sic luceat lux

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  174. I was preparing a small apology for being so hard on you, Shama.

    I was in the process of reviewing this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmkmwuDAy90#t=1675 in which Dana Karon says (~ 43 min) — (my unedited notes/transcript)

    “My name is Dana Karon.

    [Karon explains how intensely zionist she and her family and upbringing and schooling in Israel were, but that now she and her parents have left Israel]

    I’m a junior [now] at University of Maryland. . . . A lot of what I read has not been honest, has not been true. I really feel betrayed sometimes when I read the news. . . .I haven’t been told the honest truth. What I’ve been told by my parents, in synagogue hasn’t been the honest truth. So I think it needs to start from the top. If we’re going to educate children and younger people we need to start being honest with our people, our children and our families. Because we can’t expect change to come from the bottom. [Applause]”

    . . .

    Closing: Beinart, “Palestinians have not given zionism a fair chance.”

    after program ended, Mark Golub of Shalom TV interviewed Karon and re-framed her comment.

    Karon pointed to most specifically to the Map of Israel: “what Israel looks like on the globe is not what Israel looks like …
    Golub: once again soft-soaps the map — “In America we are not shown that map.” Any other examples?
    Karon: “How Israel came to be is distorted.”
    Golub: give me an example
    Karon: Were Palestinians kicked out or did they leave on their own …
    Golub: once again plays with Karon’s mind & framing.
    Karon: “I’m not sure . . . I don’t know…”
    Golub: What would you want Israel to do?
    Karon: It doesn’t match up with what should happen. It all should be a Jewish state but that is not just, the Palestinians deserve a state. As long as Israel is an occupier it is not a Jewish and democratic state and that is not okay with me. … My family lives here now…
    Golub: Does your family have security issues?
    Karon: [short answer -- Yes].
    Golub: Most Israelis say to me we are prepared to … with palestinians who are prepared to live with Jews side by side where no parent lives in fear of danger to their child . . . if you could guarantee to me that Palestinians would make those kinds of compromises we would be willing to give up land. . . Does that represent, in your view, mainstream Israeli thinking?
    Karon: says yes, in effect.


    I was going to say, Sam, that I was harsh in calling you a liar because perhaps you, too, had been lied to.

    I’m reading Russian literature — Turgenev’s “Fathers and Sons,” and Dostoevsky’s “Brothers Karamazov.”
    “Fathers and Sons” incorporates an explication of the concept of nihilism that swept Russia in the 1860s (and later), the “golden age” of Russian literature and also the earliest days of the Haskalah Movement in Russia — the Great Awakening of Jewish Russians to the secular learning emanating from Germany and catching hold in Russia.

    In “Fathers and Sons,” the nihilist conflict has its roots in Genesis 22 — The Binding of Isaac.

    I didn’t realize this until reading Turgenev — Isaac was 32 or 33 years old when Abraham took him to the wilderness and took all the steps to slay him on an altar to Yahweh.

    The concept of “binding” refers not only to the fact that a 32-year old would have to be bound hand and foot in order to be slain, but more importantly, to the deeper meaning of the exercise: Abraham was binding Isaac to the Tribe, under threat of death. It was essential that Isaac buy into the value system of the tribe of Abraham in order to ensure its continuity.

    Nihilists rejected the old values.

    Many young Russian Jews rejected the old Jewish orthodoxies in favor of the new, secular learning they were absorbing at universities in Odessa, Germany and Vienna. These young Jews were a threat to the perpetuation of the Jewish tribe.

    So whatever means were necessary — not excluding killing or dispossessing their own children, were employed to keep the kids in the tribe.

    Ruth Wisse explains that the real story of “Fiddler on the Roof” is that when the daughter married a Christian and went away with him, her father considered her as dead.

    Jews go to great lengths to ensure that their tribal values will be carried on, and as the whole of the linked video gives evidence, Jews in the USA have undertaken extraordinary means to ensure that their “children” believe and buy into the dogma of zionism and Israel.

    more and more and more can be told, for example, about the nihilism of people like Leo Strauss, Michael Ledeen & the neoconservatives, and of Erich Mendelsohn, one of the most notorious examples of Jewish nihilism — when it involves other people’s children and cultures being destroy.

    But not now —
    You plopped this bull-pucky in our midst.

    At the risk of bestowing respectability on the repugnant claims, it falls on Yours truly, to observe on behalf of the civilised world, that the documents relating to the “Final Solution” and extermination of the Untermensch, was restricted to only the very top echelons of the Nazi leadership and destroyed just prior to defeat in 1945. All of this was revealed during the Nuremberg Trials.

    Bullshit from start to finish.

    Documents that were cherry-picked for the kangaroo trials that were Nuremberg were selected from the mass of documents that the Allies acquired in the waning days of Germany’s war.

    Here’s what William Shirer says about documentation of the war, in “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” –

    “Though I lived and worked in the Third Reich during [its] first half . . .this personal experience would not have led me to attempt to write this book had there not occurred at the end of World War II an event unique in history.
    This was the capture of most of the confidential archives of the German government and all its branches, including those of the Foreign Office, the Army and Navy, the National Socialist Party and Heinrich Himmler’s secret police. Never before, I believe, has such a vast treasure fallen into the hands of contemporary historians. Hitherto the archives of a great state, even when it was defeated in war and its government overthrown by revolution, as happened to Germany and Russia in 1918, were preserved by it, and only those documents which served the interests of the subsequent ruling regime were ultimately published.
    The swift collapse of the Third Reich in the spring of 1945 resulted in the surrender not only of a vast bulk of its secret papers but of other priceless material such as private diaries, highly secret speeches, conference reports and correspondence, and even transcripts of telephone conversations of the Nazi leaders tapped by a special office set up by Hermann Goering in the Air Ministry.
    . . .

    The 445 tons of records of the German Foreign Office, captured by the U.S. First Army . . .just as they were about to be burned on orders from Berlin, . . .go back to the Weimar Republic and . . .Bismarck. For many years after the war tons of Nazi documents lay sealed in a large U.S. Army warehouse in Alexandria, VA. . . . [I]n 1955. . .thanks to the initiative of the American Historical Association and the generosity of a couple of private foundations, the Alexandria papers were opened and a pitifully small group of scholars . . .went to work to sift through them and photograph them before the government . . .returned them to Germany. . . .

    Hundreds of thousands of captured Nazi documents were hurriedly assembled at Nuremberg as evidence in the trial of major Nazi war criminals . . .”

    In a speech about his book, 1939: The War That had Many Fathers,” Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof recounts that he was confused when comparing original statistics he uncovered from documents held in another country, with those posted in supposed-official papers of the Third Reich. A colleague explained to him that the “Official” German documents had been compiled by the Americans. I suppose they were among those 445 tons of documents that “private foundations” in the USA arranged to have copied — and doctored? — before returning them to Germany.

    I must admit, dear Sam, I did not open the wikipedia links. I and much of the rest of the world with an IQ at least at the mean temperature in Alaska, are aware that Israel has agents who jigger information on Wikipedia. It is as reliable as the documents the USA copied and returned to Germany.

    Phil Giraldi speaks for himself. Yes, this is his column/article space, on a website owned by Mr. Unz. I don’t know Unz but I have met Phil. There is no limit to the respect I have for Dr. Phil Giraldi. His courage is an inspiration and a goad, that I must put every ounce of my energy and intellect to the task of seeking out and offering up the most soundly-based information I can find, because the constitutional republic of the United States can only function when its foundation is “plumb, square and level” (I’m a journeyman not a scholar like Giraldi; it’s a tremendous handicap but I do what I can with what I’ve got).

    For myself, I repeat: I am not a holocaust “denier.” I refuse to be boxed in that frame.
    I think the holocaust narrative is a lie.
    I believe it is essential for the American people to unpack that set of lies and tell the truth to themselves about how the USA was drawn into World War II and how it fought it, and the debt it owes to the people it killed.
    I believe the telling of those truths are essential if the seriously listing ship of the US Constitutional republic is to be set aright.

    The best information that I have found to this date persuades me that much of what has been handed down as dogma about the holocaust of Jewish people is propaganda. The holocaust narrative is a seamless arc from 1900 when Rabbi Stephen Wise published his first reports about “6 million Jews” being persecuted; through the period between 1933 and 1941 when, as Lynne Olson writes in “Those Angry Days,” the people of the United States were bombarded with “propaganda, disinformation, character assassination, criminal behavior” in the process of “educating them” on the evilness of the German people and the necessity of the people of the USA to kill them.

    Cycle back to Dana Karon, who complained that she was taught lies about “the map of Israel” and “whether Palestinians were forced out, or left on their own, or were never there at all.”

    If those things were lies, as Karon says they were but about which Golub was eager to plant seeds of doubt — as well as veiled threats of disloyalty to Israel — what else have people been lied to about in the case of Israel?

    If the “pitifully few scholars . . . paid by private foundations in the U.S.A” had found in the 450 tons of highly confidential NSDAP documents slam-dunk proof that the German government planned and carried out a deliberate campaign to exterminate Jews just because they were Jewish or did not have blonde hair and blue eyes, then don’t you suppose those documents would have been replicated and displayed at every museum to the alleged holocaust that US and other country’s taxpayers money has built?

    re your “survivor grandmother.”
    Stow it, won’t you please?
    The world is sick of Jewish appeal ad misericordiam.
    I think I would have cherished my grandmothers if I had ever known them. I never felt my grandmothers’s arms around me.
    You’ve overplayed your hand, however, and about your grandmother, frankly Mr. Shama, I don’t give a damn.

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  175. @SolontoCroesus

    EDIT:

    re:

    The holocaust narrative is a seamless arc from 1900 when Rabbi Stephen Wise published his first reports about “6 million Jews” being persecuted; through the period between 1933 and 1941 when, as Lynne Olson writes in “Those Angry Days,” the people of the United States were bombarded with “propaganda, disinformation, character assassination, criminal behavior” in the process of “educating them” on the evilness of the German people and the necessity of the people of the USA to kill them, to the kangaroo-court Nuremberg trials based on cherry-picked evidence with parties included precisely to conceal the war crimes of the “victors;” to this very day when Israel’s agents appear before the US Senate and offer up more lies in a bid to pass legislation that would, in effect, commit the USA to a permanent state of war against Iran. .

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  176. Sam J. says:

    “Jews always have higher souls than goyim, even if they’re gay.”

    They tell us constantly we are not like them. They are right. This is because the Jews are a tribe of psychopaths.

    If you base your world view on the idea that the Jews are a tribe of psychopaths you will never be surprised and many things that don’t make sense will suddenly make a great deal of sense. It also would explain how every country the Jews have gone to they’ve eventually been kicked out of. People can only stand so much of psychopaths behavior and then something must give. They must go.

    Here’s a chapter in the book “The Mask of Sanity” about a psychopath called Stanley. Read it and you will have a perfect indication of how the Jews will act.

    http://www.energyenhancement.org/Psychopath/psychopath-Hervey-Cleckley-the-mask-of-sanity-SECTION-TWO-THE-MATERIAL-Part-1-The-disorder-in-full-clinical-manifestations-19-Stanley.html

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  177. Sam Shama says:

    “…… kangaroo trials that were Nuremberg “

    It has to be a kangaroo court, doesn’t it, to suit your narrative. You are entitled to your opinions, but NOT your own “facts”

    “….I suppose they were among those 445 tons of documents that “private foundations” in the USA arranged to have copied — and doctored? — before returning them to Germany.”

    And the evidence was of course, in YOUR opinion, “doctored” by the USA. We are beginning to detect powerful evidentiary logic here…….

    “….I and much of the rest of the world with an IQ at least at the mean temperature in Alaska”

    It mightn’t have included mine, or those of my friends. I clocked at 204.

    “…Israel has agents who jigger information on Wikipedia. It is as reliable as the documents the USA copied and returned to Germany.”

    Naturally! They are also fiddling with online pudding recipes

    “I believe it is essential for the American people……………….and tell the truth to themselves about how the USA was drawn into World War II and how it fought it, and the debt it owes to the people it killed.”

    So you are now suggesting that the USA, UK and allies engaged in war crimes during WWII and should pay reparations to …..Germans?

    “Cycle back to Dana Karon, who complained that she was taught lies about “the map of Israel” and “whether Palestinians were forced out, or left on their own, or were never there at all.”

    Quite familiar with this sort of sentiment. I am sure her heart is in the right place. Just so happens that political maps are the children of International Law, which states that until official peace is declared between warring sides no re-drawing of the boundaries need happen. Read the many discourses/debates/opinions of Prof Alan Dershowitz

    “re your “survivor grandmother.”
    Stow it, won’t you please?”

    After you stow your Nazi propaganda. The point of quoting my grandmother, was to emphasise her practical approach to life, which I admire and try to follow. Not looking for your sympathies at all jocko!

    “You’ve overplayed your hand, however, and about your grandmother, frankly Mr. Shama, I don’t give a damn.”

    If I “overplayed” my hand, it appears to have given you indigestion, writing that garbled Odyssey.

    As a cabbie chum of mine in London, would say: ” Blimey mate, you blew a raspberry there!”

    …But no need to apologise!

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  178. So you are now suggesting that the USA, UK and allies engaged in war crimes during WWII and should pay reparations to …..Germans?

    Indeed I am.

    And also to Iranians who were victims of war crimes in wars in which they were neutrals — far more Iranians died in WWI and WWII than Jews.

    When people are not called to account for their crimes they take that omission as acquiescence and grant themselves the right to continue committing the same sort of crimes. This is exactly what USA and Israel are doing.

    I do not buy the pretzel-logic that the bestial behavior of Israeli Jews, those moral leaders of the world (according to Rabbi Ken Spiro at AISH.org — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2COCsedCw ) in oppressing, stealing from, imprisoning and killing Palestinians, can be understood as expressed above —

    “So, I’m not surprised with those givens, when some Jewish people support policies, even if sometimes misguided, that they believe are necessary to avoid victimhood again, a holocaust in which few of the rest of the world came to their rescue, only fighting their oppressors when they themselves felt threatened.

    It’s also no surprise when a nation of any human beings adopts policies that are unwise and unproductive to itself, or detrimental to the interests of another. I believe because of history, that Israel merits some special sensitivity due to past victimhood,

    Nothing personal but I think that’s sentimental gobbley-de-gook.

    In my opinion Jews brutalize Palestinian out of a sense of unrepented guilt.
    Much the same for American leaders who display a god-complex: they are so full of the nonsense that they “triumphed over evil” in Germany that they feel invincible and entitled. Their failure to acknowledge that this “victory” was achieved by
    ~lying the USA into the war after — listen to Irving Kristol admit to these lies here
    ~demonizing Germans and Germany in exactly the way Joseph Trumpledor complained of in the first comment to this article.
    ~ firebombing babies, women and old men — unarmed civilians –by the hundreds of thousands and setting brutish Russians to rape and kill German women and girls.

    It does not make me proud to be an American that may country did this and got away with it.

    It frightens me that the leaders of the USA use this “liar’s victory” to grant themselves leave to impose the same punishment — war crimes — on Iraq, which is precisely George W H Bush’s motivation in the Persian Gulf war (see Jeffrey Engel, “Into the Desert” ~50 min), and that so puffed-up and entitled has US leadership become that they think it is their right to choose the governments of other people, impose their style of political and economic praxis, and kill whomever they will on their sole say-so.

    This is psychosis reaching a fever-pitch.

    It is extremely troubling that two members of WINEP, James Jeffrey and Martin Indyk, testified before Bob Corker’s Senate committee and urged the Senate to grant the president Authorization to Use Military Force against Iran in the event Iran does not sign a deal or fails to comply with some terms of a deal that might be signed.

    This is an extremely distressing turn of events.

    Why people on this forum continue to offer solicitous aid and comfort to Israelis who have killed with abandon in the recent past and are arming up to do so in the near future is beyond my comprehension (I’m talking to you, Fran Macadam).

    I think they are psychopaths who need to be stopped for their own good not to mention the protection of the millions of people who are their intended victims.

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  179. @Sam Shama

    Not looking for your sympathies at all jock!

    If the point was to highlight your grandmother’s “practical approach to life,” why was it necessary to identify her as a “survivor”, jocko?

    Is it your belief that other people’s grandmother’s who are or are not “survivors” are therefore less practical, or less worthy of being cherished?

    Is that your grandmother’s overriding identity — “survivor” ?

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  180. I have here and reread recently Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. This work confirms without any doubt whatsoever that millions were exterminated by Nazis in premeditated and meticulously planned acts of monstrous genocide. To claim otherwise is frankly impossible. It’s a complete refutation of everything Holocaust Deniers are peddling.

    Interesting about Fyodor Dostoyevsky’s Karamazov. The most contemptible figures in it are not Jewish, but rather the greedy grasping reprobate and saloon owner, the clan father Fyodor Karamazov and his illegitimate son, the obsequious Smerdyakov.

    Phil Giraldi can surely do without endorsements from the invincibly ignorant Deniers, but there’s also no doubt that there isn’t a cause so virtuous that it won’t have some unsavory characters lurking about. Since commentary is uncensored, here they be, letting ‘er rip.

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  181. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “Mr. Giraldi you say that you have never been a Holocaust Denier, yet have no compunction about extending the platform for it, to so many here.”

    Sammie – Sorry Little Jew child, you do NOT get to tell your lies forever and ever. 55,000,000 people died in that dam war – Russians, Poles, Germans, Japanese, Brits, Americans, Chinese, and yes some Jews – NOT six million.

    You Jews are not blameless – your Big Jew bankers put Germany in grave financial debt – in typical fashion, you lemming like Little Jews took advantage of that and took over German culture. You come by people’s hate for you honestly. The blood of the 55,000,000 is in part on YOU JEWS.

    Little Jew child – six million Jews did not die in WWII, Israel is an apartheid state, your Big Jew bankers are evil – you are turning America’s culture upside down – the obvious question is “are you Jews an existential threat to America, like you were to Germany after WWI?”

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  182. @Fran Macadam

    Have you read Jorg Friedrich’s “The Fire: The Bombing of Germany, 1940 – 1945,” or “1939: The War that had Many Fathers,” by Maj. Gen. Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof? How about “Hellstorm,” by Thomas Goodrich, or Freda Utley’s account of post-war Germany, “The High Cost of Vengeance,” available online — http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thcov/

    Chapter 5 of Jacob Raisin’s “The Haskalah Movement in Russia” (also available online http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15921/15921-h/15921-h.htm
    discusses Jewish reactions to the writing of Turgenev and Dostoevsky.

    Fyodor Pavlovich was indeed a rogue (there weren’t many Jewish characters in “Karamazov,” hardly surprising since Dostoevsky did not much care for Jews, was a supporter of the monarchy and the Byzantine Church). But some scholars of Russian literature say that Fyodor was the smartest and most brutally honest of the Karamazov men, maybe as smart as Mr. “I clock in at 204″ Shama but not as pompously intellectual, or intellectually pompous as Ivan.

    Interesting that Dmitri was wrongly convicted on the strength of “evidence” presented by a vindictive, scorned former lover of Dmitri, who had found noble love just moments before the Interrogators came in a troika to take him off to prison. For all his smarts, Ivan could not save his brother. It seems that high IQ is not a match for a flawed , biased assessment of human nature.
    Western-style legal processes were just emerging in Russia in Dostoevsky’s time. He tried to make the point that men are incapable of judging each other fairly. Food for thought.

    PS I think you are wrong and dangerously wrong to gulp holocaust koolaid uncritically.

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  183. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam

    I have read Shirer. Not Dostoyevsky however. So I find your insight interesting and useful.What our resident fire-breathing Lydian (whose gifts, I have cautioned earlier, one should beware of) said about Jewish nihilism, as it applies to the B’rith Mila (covenant of Isaac), is pitifully false and incongruent with the received wisdom of the faith. His interpretation would be akin to asserting that “Corpus et Sanguis Christi” prepares Christians for eventual cannibalism.

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  184. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “It would be prescient to observe that in actuality these policies are against the interests of the vast majority and benefit the same special donorist interests who have bought the policies.”

    Care to elaborate on who the special donorists are that influence U.S. policies in the ME?

    “… the majority of American Jews are left out of their equation as much as every other average American.”

    I realize it is difficult for anyone to speak in behalf of any one group of people, but before you can reach the conclusion you do, wouldn’t one need to determine whether American Jewry is supportive of the special relationship between the U.S. and Israel? And if they are supportive, do they bear any responsibility for what has transpired in the ME?

    btw, if you don’t mind my asking: are you supportive of this relationship?

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  185. @Fran Macadam

    Wikipedia states:

    “Invincible ignorance is the deductive fallacy of circularity where the person simply refuses to believe the argument ignoring any evidence.”

    An online Catholic encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm, makes a more complex analysis and seems to turn the definition inside-out, consistent with the explanation in Wikipedia that, while the term is frequently traced to Catholic theology, it was used there to refer to situations such as an infant who is ignorant of Jesus because he/she has not had the opportunity to learn. Virgil placed himself in this category, having lived and died just before Jesus did. Dante places Abraham, Moses, David, etc. in a special place outside of the Inferno, due to their invincible ignorance of Jesus — it was impossible for them to know Jesus.

    The Catholic Encyclopedia skirts this complexity by discussing various levels of obligation to obtain knowledge:

    Ignorance is lack of knowledge about a thing in a being capable of knowing [i.e. a human person].

    Fundamentally speaking and with regard to a given object ignorance is the outcome of the limitations of our intellect or of the obscurity of the matter itself.

    In this article it is the ethical aspect and consequences of ignorance that are directly under consideration. From this point of view, since only voluntary and free acts are imputable, ignorance which either destroys or lessens the [the limitations of our intellect] is a factor to be reckoned with. . . .[Ignorance] will, therefore, be taken to mean the absence of information which one is required to have. The mere want of knowledge without connoting any requirement on the part of a person to possess it may be called nescience.

    So far as fixing human responsibility, the most important division of ignorance is that designated by the terms invincible and vincible.

    Ignorance is said to be invincible when a person is unable to rid himself of it notwithstanding the employment of moral diligence, that is, such as under the circumstances is, morally speaking, possible and obligatory.
    This manifestly includes the states of inadvertence, forgetfulness, etc. Such ignorance is obviously involuntary and therefore not imputable.

    On the other hand, ignorance is termed vincible if it can be dispelled by the use of “moral diligence”. This certainly does not mean all possible effort; . . . We may say, however, that the diligence requisite must be commensurate with the importance of the affair in hand, and with the capacity of the agent, in a word such as a really sensible and prudent person would use under the circumstances.

    Furthermore, it must be remembered that the obligation mentioned above is to be interpreted strictly and exclusively as the duty incumbent on a man to do something, the precise object of which is the acquisition of the needed knowledge. . . .

    When ignorance is deliberately aimed at and fostered, it is said to be affected, not because it is pretended, but rather because it is sought for by the agent so that he may not have to relinquish his purpose.

    Ignorance which practically no effort is made to dispel is termed crass or supine.

    The Catholic encyclopedia next sets up categories of culpability related to ignorance, invincible or vincible. The encyclopedia uses knowledge of Church doctrine for its example, but it is useful to apply the theory to the matter of acquiring knowledge about the holocaust and the actions requisite upon that acquisition.

    [I]gnorance may precede, accompany, or follow an act of our will. It is therefore said to be antecedent, concomitant, or consequent.

    Antecedent ignorance is in no sense voluntary, neither is the act resulting from it; it precedes any voluntary failure to inquire.

    Consequent ignorance, on the other hand, is so called because it is the result of a perverse frame of mind choosing, either directly or indirectly, to be ignorant.

    Concomitant ignorance is concerned with the will to act in a given contingency; it implies that the real character of what is done is unknown to the agent, but his attitude is such that, were he acquainted with the actual state of things, he would go on just the same.

    Keeping these distinctions in mind we are in a position to lay down certain statements of doctrine.

    Invincible ignorance [ignorance that cannot be conquered], whether of the law or of the fact, is always a valid excuse and excludes sin. The evident reason is that neither this state nor the act resulting therefrom is voluntary.

    It is undeniable that a man cannot be invincibly ignorant of the natural law, so far as its first principles are concerned, and the inferences easily drawn therefrom. This, however, according to the teaching of St. Thomas, is not true of those remoter conclusions, which are deducible only by a process of laborious and sometimes intricate reasoning. Of these a person may be invincibly ignorant. Even when the invincible ignorance is concomitant, it prevents the act which it accompanies from being regarded as sinful. The perverse temper of soul, which in this case is supposed, retains, of course, such malice as it had.

    Vincible ignorance, being in some way voluntary, does not permit a man to escape responsibility for the moral deformity of his deeds; he is held to be guilty and in general the more guilty in proportion as his ignorance is more voluntary. Hence, the essential thing to remember is that the guilt of an act performed or omitted in vincible ignorance is not to be measured by the intrinsic malice of the thing done or omitted so much as by the degree of negligence discernible in the act.

    It must not be forgotten that, although vincible ignorance leaves the culpability of a person intact, still it does make the act less voluntary than if it were done with full knowledge. This holds good except perhaps with regard to the sort of ignorance termed affected. Here theologians are not agreed as to whether it increases or diminishes a man’s moral liability. The solution is possibly to be had from a consideration of the motive which influences one in choosing purposely to be ignorant.
    For instance, a man who would refuse to learn the doctrines of the Church [both sides or weigh conflicting evidence of the holocaust narrative] from a fear that he would thus find himself compelled to embrace [a changed interpretation of the events] would certainly be in a bad plight.

    Still he would be less guilty than the man whose neglect to know the teachings of the Church [opposing evidence about the holocaust] was inspired by sheer scorn of her authority[ those who advance the contrary evidence].

    Invincible ignorance, whether of the law or fact, exempts one from the penalty which may have been provided by positive legislation.

    Even vincible ignorance, either of the law or fact, which is not crass, excuses one from the punishment. Mere lack of knowledge of the sanction does not free one from the penalty. . .

    Devious antisemite that I am (or so I have been told. several times.), I have posted links and repeated what I believe to be information pointing to a larger context and the other side — the German side — of the story involving the holocaust, precisely to pull out from under “holocaust believers” any ability to claim that “they did not know.”

    Earlier, I issued a dare: http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-967004
    Have you taken the dare?

    Our children had the good sense to have been young when there was still decent children’s programming on cable channels. I don’t recall what program it was that routinely disclosed some bit of information about how a person should conduct him/herself, then closed the segment with the phrase, “Now you know, and knowing’s half the battle.”

    When the question on the table is war or peace, killing or not killing, knowing, then the moral obligation to know is far more than “half the battle.” It is the most serious obligation of a citizen, a moral imperative.

    I have presented information — contrarian information– about the holocaust with the intention of putting participants on this blog in the position of having the opportunity to know; the exculpatory position of invincible ignorance is therefore foreclosed.

    Once a thing is known, it’s hard to un-know it. Then one must consider how to act with respect to that new knowledge.

    This has become a very difficult situation in the USA due to the punitive measures to enforce ignorance that operate under the guise of sanctioning “holocaust denial” or “antisemitism.” These measures and the institutions that enforce them are pernicious and destructive to the perpetuation of a constitutional republic.

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  186. @Fran Macadam

    I have here and reread recently Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. . . .This work confirms without any doubt whatsoever that millions were exterminated by Nazis in premeditated and meticulously planned acts of monstrous genocide

    Excellent.

    Please quote the passages from Shirer, chapter and verse, if you please, that prove what you assert in your quote above.

    Also, as you are therefore in a position to answer the questions posed to Sam Shama, please point us to the documents that credibly prove that

    overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy, mixed with theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery.” – Sam Shama

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  187. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “When the question on the table is war or peace, killing or not killing, knowing, then the moral obligation to know is far more than “half the battle.” It is the most serious obligation of a citizen, a moral imperative.”

    These words struck a chord with me. I couldn’t agree more. This is the creed I live by. My only wish is that more people reasoned this way!

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  188. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    Well Sammie and Frannie – you two little lemmings sure are busy, running here, rushing there, shoring up one Big Jew lie after another.

    What does hasbara work pay these days? Shackles or dollars, overtime? Keyboard malady compensation?

    You know that YOU are driving the getaway car.

    Please please stay away from the cliffs my little lemmings.

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  189. Interestingly, I ran across an old pocket novel by Shirer, missing the first couple of pages, from 1950, called The Traitor. It was about American foreign correspondents in Berlin prewar, and tracing the evolution of one of them who ended up betraying America in favor of the Nazis, complete to mimicking then sincerely adopting their virulent racist views, particularly in regard to Jewish persons.

    I’m not sure but that Shirer titled it that, as a counterweight to the novel by Thomas Dixon Jr., also titled The Traitor, published in 1907. Largely forgotten now, Dixon was the most popular speaker in America of that era. He wrote the novels that director D.W. Griffith turned into the famous silent classic, Birth of a Nation, one of which novels was The Klansman. Dixon, by turn minister, playwright, lecturer, legislator, lawyer and author, was the foremost public promoter of the Ku Klux Klan in their heydey of early 20th century renaissance. It is disturbing to read his novels, because he almost succeeds through his considerable rhetorical and literary talents in making out virulent racism, terrorism and lynchings to be the stuff of noble heroism.

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  190. Seraphim says:

    Does anyone believe that comments are still read after you passed the 50th? And the longer they are the less chance to be read.

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  191. geokat62 says:
    @Seraphim

    Now you tell us. It would have been nice if you had done so as the 52nd commenter, not the 190th!

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  192. Leave it to the Jesuitical, to construct a justification that stands logic on its head, for those whose ignorance is so invincible, that they choose to believe elaborate lies, instead of what they believe are their lying eyes!

    Not being Catholic, that makes me a heretic for my ordinary usage of the term, but certainly not Shirer’s Traitor.

    Oddly enough, though, a recent Pope did term those who insist on not seeing the obvious, guilty of an inexcusable “invincible ignorance.”

    Moreover, the most famous example of those who have no excuse for claiming “not to know” aren’t those who refuse the delusions of the Holocaust Deniers, but the German neighbors of the death camps who would have had to be deaf, blind and without a sense of smell to not have known what was going on.

    But all this is far afield from a critique of the current Israeli government’s morally and practically unsustainable policies, which are distorting both our democracies. That is not to do with the Holocaust, whether invoked as an excuse for wrongdoing by the heirs of victims, or the distracting rants of bad faith disbelief propaganda by the deniers. It is a distraction from solving the problem of the continuing wars there, which can only come through nurturing peace.

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  193. Art says:
    @Fran Macadam

    So Frannie – why are you lemmings going bonkers over 2% (if that) of the deaths of WWII – why are you not outraged, talking, and thinking about the other 98%. The Germans and Japanese murdered many millions of civilians – the Russians lost 20 million people – we and the Brits bombed many millions of civilians during that god dam war.

    Why do 2% of the deaths get 98% of media outrage? Are they miss using those deaths for nefarious reasons? Are they using those regrettable deaths to steal Palestine?

    Sure they are!

    Frannie – you are playing a part in a big wrong – you need to get next to yourself.

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  194. Seraphim says:
    @geokat62

    I did actually. That’s why I am asking the question.

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  195. Critiquing the policies of any nation which create the conditions for war is one thing, nurturing hatred for whole peoples is quite another, just the thing that enables war.

    That lives are destroyed by violence is a tragedy, regardless of their ethnicity.

    Acknowledging the deaths among one group does not lessen the equal importance of other victims.

    Conversely, because other deaths have not been properly acknowledged by some, is no reason for ceasing to recognize those we already know about.

    I bear no ill will to foreign peoples, but concern for our local neighbors is practical rather than abstract, and if we don’t care for them first, we don’t care for anyone.

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  196. QB says:
    @Everyone Else

    JFK
    USS Liberty
    9/11
    And lots more…

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  197. alexander says:
    @Sam Shama

    Dear Mr Shama,

    I am sure you are a very fine person.
    But I do not know how it might be possible to engage someone who refers to my reciting of the very basic facts of our governments cash flow (REVENUES/EXPENSES) as a …..”CURIOUS LIQUIDATIONISM ”

    I am a reasonably well educated person but I have no idea what a ” CURIOUS LIQUIDATIONISM
    ” is ?

    But I am CURIOUS why the American people should have to PAY for a WAR that we were DEFRAUDED into fighting ?

    Shouldn’t the individuals who defrauded us …PAY FOR IT ??

    I say… put them in” Guantanamo Bay “until they do !

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  198. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam

    But all this is far afield from a critique of the current Israeli government’s morally and practically unsustainable policies, which are distorting both our democracies.

    This is acknowledged by many in the leadership in Israel, and a resolution, I anticipate, is likely only a few years away. The current PA would like nothing better than to scupper any pragmatic solution, for reasons I am sure you can infer.

    Acknowledging the deaths among one group does not lessen the equal importance of other victims.

    I am very glad to find a voice of reason, one which cuts through the miasma, and finds, not too deep under the surface, hatred almost palpable to touch.

    Leave it to the Jesuitical, to construct a justification that stands logic on its head, for those whose ignorance is so invincible, that they choose to believe elaborate lies, instead of what they believe are their lying eyes!

    Which is why, one suspects, despite efforts to instil a small measure of civility in discourse, the ‘cognoscenti’ will remain unyielding.

    So, the cacophony of the Bestiary will continue.

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  199. geokat62 says:

    “So, the cacophony of the Bestiary will continue.”

    What is sure to continue is the death and destruction in the ME, with apologists like yourselves providing cover for the ethnocracy to continue their ethnic cleansing program unabated, notwithstanding your bold prediction that a “resolution…is likely only a few years away.”

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  200. QB says:

    Man, did this article get Megaphoned or what?!

    Catching flak, must be over target.

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  201. QB says:
    @Art

    Excellent points. Holocaust come up in my phones auto-correct, but not Holomador. Subtle signs of the power pop up regularly, if you know how to identify them.

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  202. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    the obvious question is “are you Jews an existential threat to America, like you were to Germany after WWI?”

    No you moron, that would be you and your mother who is also your sister in coal city WV

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  203. Sam Shama says:

    You guys here in this Jew bashing stuff sound crazy. I’ve been working in nyc for about 2 yrs now, and know lots of Jewish guys and gals. Most of them are normal/fun/boring/whatever and no different than anyone else. This whole discussion sounds like nothing I’ve ever seen before!

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  204. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @joe webb

    It doesn’t matter what the particular self-serving rules or laws were at some point in the past. Facts are facts. Jews are more indigenous to Israel than you are to California and N. America. As long as you condemn Israel without returning the land and going back to wherever your people came from, you will always be an unprincipled hypocrite with no moral standing. And your lust and calls for violence against Jews and others makes it abundantly clear that you’re a moral hypocrite and reprobate motivated by sheer selfishness and animosity.

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  205. geokat62 says:

    “Facts are facts. Jews are more indigenous to Israel than you are to California and N. America. ”

    Finally, we are getting to the nitty gritty of this debate. It took a while, but glad to see we’ve dispensed with the niceties!

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  206. @alexander

    I agree with every friggin’ word you wrote.

    The U.S. “Justice” Department can’t be bothered with minor stuff like American war crimes/criminals, torture, rendition, Israeli subversion, “too big to fail” banks, and the like. No, going after FIFA is far more important.

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  207. Art says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “Critiquing the policies of any nation which create the conditions for war is one thing, nurturing hatred for whole peoples is quite another, just the thing that enables war.”

    Hate is a natural human emotion. There is a point where that emotion triggers action. Hating injustice is a good thing. It gets one off their safe little life to do something right.

    The Jews claim that we hate them. Is it naked tribalness or is there cause? Do we hate them just because they are of a different tribe – or are they disliked because they are the cause of much dishonesty and injustice? Looking at Israel one can see that the root cause is the second. In 1967 Israel was the toast of the world – what happened? Has time shown a dark side to Jewry? The undeniable unjust plight of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Jews is great.

    What to do? More killing is NOT the answer – the rational thing to do is to ostracize Zionism – refuse to cater to their lies and push them away – do no business with them – ZERO.

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  208. @Orville H. Larson

    The usual crowd is going after FIFI because the Jewish mafia wants-in on the action.

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  209. @Anonymous

    Well, you’re right.

    Future historians will puzzle over the U.S. Government’s groveling subservience to the Zionist entity.

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  210. “Hate is a natural human emotion. There is a point where that emotion triggers action. Hating injustice is a good thing.”

    Hating injustice – although people define it vaguely often out of self interest – is not the same as hatred for every member of an entire ethnic group.

    That kind of emotion and action leads to violence and death.

    You could say every emotion is natural but that doesn’t make it all good. Greed, lust, sadism good? No.

    Any genuine, practical peace is going to have to take the interests of all into account.

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  211. geokat62 says:

    “Any genuine, practical peace is going to have to take the interests of all into account.”

    Brilliant insight! Unfortunately, the people wreaking all the havoc in the world do not subscribe to this principle. Should we sit idly by and implore them to mend their ways or does there come a time when one must stand up to evil and fight back?

    No need to respond… it’s just a rhetorical question. I realize you have an aversion to answering prickly questions – e.g., are you supportive of the special relationship?

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  212. @Fran Macadam

    Hating injustice – although people define it vaguely often out of self interest – is not the same as hatred for every member of an entire ethnic group.

    Judgments based on emotion are thus, by your own definition, self-referential.

    As the icons and literary allusions attempt to teach us, justice is blind and justice attempts to be detached from emotion in rationally weighing both sides of the complaint.

    But that’s all so much Jesuitical nonsense don’t you know. It strains the brain. It upsets the emotionally implanted beliefs that have provided so much comfort for so long.

    Americans have been conditioned to follow their bliss, and US media and entertainment industries support them to the hilt in that process of numbing the mind, hewing religiously to the principle that ignorance is bliss.
    Thus is erased from an entire society’s awareness knowledge of the crimes against humanity committed by the American people — including inter alia Israel advocates and Jewish people– against the German people, the Russian people, the Palestinian people, the people of Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Libya, and Iran.

    Poof! The crime is gone. No sin has been committed. Ivan finds no reason to seek forgiveness or to repent — to re-think, to resolve to change his life; God’s grace is unnecessary, thank you, we’re fine just as we are. Dostoevsky removes entire chapters committed to the process of re-examining one’s life, acknowledging ones crimes and seeking forgiveness.

    And if millions of people have died (in Germany, Russia, Poland, Palestine) and continue to die (Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya) and are threatened with death (Iran, Russia, Ukraine) so that 7 million Jews can live out a utopian fantasy Weimar-on-the Mediterranean, why, they are not we and they are there not here; we kill them over there and so sustain over here an emotional balance that Orwell has taught Americans to call justice.

    WARNING: DO NOT READ. Jesuitic content detected.

    Ignorance which practically no effort is made to dispel is termed crass or supine. . .
    Consequent ignorance . . . is the result of a perverse frame of mind choosing, either directly or indirectly, to be ignorant.
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm

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  213. @SolontoCroesus

    PS Ascribing to the process of filling out the complete context and history of events — that is, what is called “holocaust denial” — “hatred for every member of an entire ethnic group” is simultaneously unsupported by the facts to the point of being hysterical, as well as intellectually childish.

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  214. You’re not going to convince those who are untrusting to try to build trust that makes negotiations possible, by telling them you implacably hate their guts. Convincing the public is the way to go, whatever country they are in, so that they demand democratic accountability from their governments. We too need our own American Spring, dramatic but peaceful political change.

    Personally, I don’t have a special relationship with other than family and a few friends. I concur with the view of no special attachments with good will to all, no going abroad in search of monsters to destroy – which is really economic imperialism through the wants of donorist elites.

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  215. geokat62 says:

    “You’re not going to convince those who are untrusting to try to build trust that makes negotiations possible…”

    Fran, these are not the people I’m trying to convince. I’m trying to convince the average American that their foreign policy has been hijacked by the neocons/Israel Firsters through the influence of the Israel Lobby. And rather than protecting the American people, the Global War on Terror (better known as the War on Islam) is being waged to enhance the security of the villa in the jungle. If enough Americans come to realize this, there’s a chance that the relationship with Israel will become a more “normal” one, for everyone’s benefit.

    Does this make sense to you?

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  216. Nico says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thank you for your reply and compliment. I quite got what you were saying, although what I meant was that the question of whether the project of Israel is religiously as well as culturally monolithic needs to be treated apart from the confessional/doctrinal terms in which Christians or post-Christians are used to seeing religious identity. Among self-identified “Hindus” there is a great deal of theological, ritual and even ethical variety (more so than even among the various factions of Judaism) yet this shared religious identity is a commonality and an important one.

    In addition, regardless of the degree to which the various internal squabbles are or are not parallel to, say, those between Catholic, Orthodox, Monophysite and Protestant Christians, my view is that insofar as the State of Israel has set specific guidelines as to who is and is not eligible for Aliyah, and considers this to define who belongs to the Jewish religion/ethnic Pangaea, the question of what degree is not necessarily interesting to the great majority of us who are excluded (the “goyim,” if you will).

    Re: the demographic realignment of Christianity and its consequences, we shall see, although given that this realignment has already occurred, I would guess not much apart from the obvious geopolitical implications of a higher percentage of the world’s people being Christian (that is a question that should be treated apart, but an important one). Christianity and Christendom are not one and the same, and even if newly Christianizing peoples did manage to create some new Christendoms, the degree to which various degrees of Europeanization have preceded/enabled/accompanied/followed from mission efforts makes it unlikely that there will be significant developments in terms of Christian acculturation in the old lands of Christendom (Europe and the Americas).

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  217. Art says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “Hating injustice – although people define it vaguely often out of self interest – is not the same as hatred for every member of an entire ethnic group. That kind of emotion and action leads to violence and death.”

    Oh really – hmm’ —- What about if you are being attacked by a tribe – can you hate then? If you are a Palestinian can you hate world Jewry? How many guns being pointed at you justifies hate? How much coercion can one bare before one justifiably hates?

    What if you are a member of the world community and you rightly have feelings of solidarity with the Palestinians – should you be accused of hate by Jewry? Is that honorable, or is that thuggish evil manipulative behavior by the Jews?

    Sorry Fran – but YOU are on the wrong side of history – your posts defend thuggish evil manipulative Jew behavior.

    The right side of history is to be for Disinvestment, Boycott, and Sanctions.

    What say you Fran – yes or no?

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  218. geokat62 says:
    @Art

    “What say you Fran – yes or no?”

    Take a number, I’m ahead of you!

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  219. @Fran Macadam

    by telling them you implacably hate their guts.

    Agreed.

    However, telling the truth, or at least telling the other side of the story, which is what equal justice under law is all about, is NOT in any way “telling them you implacably hate their guts.”

    If that is the way that they perceive the full facts and reality of the whole situation, maybe the problem lies with “them”.

    —– —– —–

    Remember the scene just after Dmitri beat up his father and Alyosha bandaged the battered old man and helped him to bed? As Alyosha sat by his bedside Fyodor awoke suddenly asleep, and asked for a mirror. He looked at himself in the mirror to assess the manifestations of the beating Dmitri had delivered.

    Fyodor’s next words were, “What does Ivan say . . . I’m afraid of Ivan.”

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  220. Art says:
    @geokat62

    @Fran

    Here Fran, here’ – it is time to be counted – time to see your honesty, time to see your actual goodness!

    p.s. Fran, your little Passover buddy Sammie Lemming is long gone (he is so cute) – when the going gets tough, he gets going (how typical). He has left the field of verbal battle to YOU.

    p.s. Maybe you need to find some truly good guys to hang with – people who know right from wrong – people who do not fall for Jew lies one after another.

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  221. Sam Shama says:

    Good Evening to all and Good Sabbath as well.

    @Art the going is quite fine, and as I predicted in the recent past, the bestiary is alight with cacophony

    What Fran has been saying ought to be instructive for you, if for nothing but simply as a device to sharpen argument and reasoning.

    Other than that, it might give you pause, and a time to reflect, as you witness the CEO of Orange (one of the largest mobile carriers in Europe), retracting his views on BDS and apologising. The civilised world commends him!

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-06/orange-ceo-richard-says-he-s-sorry-about-israel-controversy.

    I bid you goodbye for now.

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  222. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    “The civilised world commends him!”

    Not according to the link you provided:

    The dust-up reflects increasing pressure in Europe and elsewhere to sanction Israel for settlement policies in the West Bank that most of the world views as violating international law and detrimental to peacemaking with the Palestinians.

    What did you clock in at, again?

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  223. Sam Shama says:

    I said civilised did I not? :-}

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  224. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “as you witness the CEO of Orange (one of the largest mobile carriers in Europe), retracting his views on BDS and apologizing. The civilized world commends him!”

    Oh my’ A retraction and a grovel – every time your Big Jew Netanyahu wins one, you little Jews lose – everyone sees the coercive power of the Big Jew and they end up hating you little lemming Jews – so sorry. But this pattern has been going on 3,000 years. Big Jews lie, coerce, steal, and murder – then you Little Jews catch hill.

    p.s. You did not answer me – dollars or shekels – overtime? Don’t tell me that Moshe P. is your boss – he is a real cheep bastard. I had to speak to him for two other hasbaras. I made a Christian out of him. Is he slipping again? Just give me the word!

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  225. Haim Saban has indicated that he will throw his weight/wealth around in order to chasten anyone, like the CEO of Orange, who attempts to call the Jewish State to comply with international law (as geokat62 noted above).

    Wealthy Jews did this at the time of the Russian Revolution, the German Revolution, the Versailles treaty negotiations, Iran’s Revolution, etc., each time setting off anew a chain of killing and war that lasted for over a century — that period that Yuri Slezkine calls The Jewish Century. Mr. “I clock 204″ and his colleagues seem incapable of learning from past mistakes.

    We are again being forced into finance, now it is the stock exchange, by being kept out of other branches of economic activity. Being on the stock exchange, we are consequently exposed afresh to contempt. At the same time we continue to produce an abundance of mediocre intellects who find no outlet, and this endangers our social position as much as does our increasing wealth. Educated Jews without means are now rapidly becoming Socialists. Hence we are certain to suffer very severely in the struggle between classes, because we stand in the most exposed position in the camps of both Socialists and capitalists. . . .

    Anti-Semitism increases day by day and hour by hour among the nations; indeed, it is bound to increase, because the causes of its growth [91]continue to exist and cannot be removed. Its . . . immediate cause is our excessive production of mediocre intellects, who cannot find an outlet downwards or upwards—that is to say, no wholesome outlet in either direction. When we sink, we become a revolutionary proletariat, the subordinate officers of all revolutionary parties; and at the same time, when we rise, there rises also our terrible power of the purse. . . .

    The emigrants standing lowest in the economic scale will be slowly followed by those of a higher grade. Those who at this moment are living in despair will go first. They will be led by the mediocre intellects which we produce so superabundantly and which are persecuted everywhere. Der Judenstaat, Theodore Herzl, 1896

    ***** ***** *****

    Machiavelli’s “The Prince” is neoconservatism’s guidebook.

    But to the extent Jewry’s leaders, such as Haim Saban, are neoconservative, they appear not to have absorbed the warnings that The Prince issued: power gained by abusing wealth does not confer lasting authority; unless the people support you, you will not hold power long or well.

    The history of the Jewish people has borne out this caution repeatedly.

    A principality is created either by the people or by the nobles, accordingly as one or other of them has the opportunity; for the nobles, seeing they cannot withstand the people, begin to cry up the reputation of one of themselves, and they make him a prince, so that under his shadow they can give vent to their ambitions. The people, finding they cannot resist the nobles, also cry up the reputation of one of themselves, and make him a prince so as to be defended by his authority. He who obtains sovereignty by the assistance of the nobles maintains himself with more difficulty than he who comes to it by the aid of the people, because the former finds himself with many around him who consider themselves his equals, and because of this he can neither rule nor manage them to his liking. But he who reaches sovereignty by popular favour finds himself alone, and has none around him, or few, who are not prepared to obey him.

    Besides this, one cannot by fair dealing, and without injury to others, satisfy the nobles, but you can satisfy the people, for their object is more righteous than that of the nobles, the latter wishing to oppress, while the former only desire not to be oppressed. It is to be added also that a prince can never secure himself against a hostile people, because of their being too many, whilst from the nobles he can secure himself, as they are few in number. The worst that a prince may expect from a hostile people is to be abandoned by them; but from hostile nobles he has not only to fear abandonment, but also that they will rise against him; for they, being in these affairs more far-seeing and astute, always come forward in time to save themselves, and to obtain favours from him whom they expect to prevail. Further, the prince is compelled to live always with the same people, but he can do well without the same nobles, being able to make and unmake them daily, and to give or take away authority when it pleases him. . . . The Prince, by Niccolo Machiavelli, 1512? 1527 ?

    Haim Saban may win the battle. But as history has demonstrated, when you fubar the people, you lose the war.

    It is inevitable.

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  226. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Which is why Theodor Herzl wanted Israel.

    That dream realised, Jews are now: Industrialists, farmers, technicians, teachers, doctors, professors, scientists, philharmonic conductors, movie producers, journalists, casino owners, nobel laureates, artisans, hedge fund managers, central bank officials, artists, mathematicians, poets, geneticists, and politicians. Gone are the days when finance and a few other narrow disciplines were the only ones available to Jews.

    “…….the sickness is somehow ineradicable and not even subject to rational analysis, let alone to rationalisation. Anti-semitism has flourished without banking or capitalism (for which Jews were at one time blamed). It has existed without Zionism (of which leading Jews were at one time the only critics) and without the state of Israel. There has even been anti-semitism without Jews, in states like Malaysia whose political leaders are paranoid demagogues looking for a scapegoat. This is enough to demonstrate that anti-semitism is not a mere prejudice like any other: Sinhalese who don’t like Tamils, or Hutu who regard Tutsi as ‘cockroaches’, do not accuse their despised neighbours of harbouring a plan – or of possessing the ability – to bring off a secret world government based on the occult control of finance”

    Christopher Hitchens, Atlantic Monthly September 2010

    Your lengthy diatribes, without engaging in too much deconstruction, are simply about two things: a revisionist history that would have the Nazis as heroes and the USA and its allies villains, threading uninterrupted, a virulent hatred of Jews, for all manner of things from soup to nuts.

    There is an essential difference this time: we won’t be butchered quite so easily. (you may have missed this, but your friend WotanSohn, alluded to as much in German, when I joked about riding on the wings of the Valkyrie. He said (translation): “yes, we will see what we saw the last time!” Which, coming from a German, can mean only one thing.

    This type of speech is certainly hate speech and borders on an actual threat.

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  227. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Its rather late, even though I am on holiday. So I bid you Good Night

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  228. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    i read through your comments history on various articles in the Review. “Big Jew” and “Little Jew” are the vacuous expressions you use incessantly.

    You are a knave, utterly oblivious of your own paradoxical ramblings.

    Good Night

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  229. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “We will not go easy this time.” That sounds like an existential threat to humanity from YOU crazy Passovers. You little Jew lemmings really do have it in for humanity. Thinking death is always near you. How sad!

    p.s. Christopher Hitchens was a slobbering drunk who took contrarian positions because they paid well. One was thankful that he was not on their side. You can have him – no thanks.

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  230. @Sam Shama

    Gone are the days when finance and a few other narrow disciplines were the only ones available to Jews.

    That day never existed except in the fevered minds of mediocre intellects like Herzl. Jews have been merchants, farmers, industrialists, tailors, tinkerers, and everything any non-Jew has been since as long as there have been Jews and non-Jews.

    Why Jews persist in teaching themselves and their children this distorted, self-pitying history is beyond my ability to comprehend. It is a sickness indeed, but it does not afflict non-Jews, it afflicts Jews.

    David Biale edited a set of books that reviews a more true to the facts history of the Jews. Check it out — Cultures of the Jews.

    That dream realised, Jews are now: Industrialists, farmers, technicians, teachers, doctors, professors, scientists, philharmonic conductors, movie producers, journalists, casino owners, nobel laureates, artisans, hedge fund managers, central bank officials, artists, mathematicians, poets, geneticists, and politicians.

    The “dream” realized and Jews now anything they want to be and possessing a Jewish state, Jews still cannot resist the compulsion

    “to be led by the mediocre intellects which we produce so superabundantly . .

    .
    and

    to become a revolutionary proletariat, the subordinate officers of all revolutionary parties;

    and

    at the same time, when we rise, there rises also our terrible power of the purse. . . .

    Thank you for proving my point: Jewish leaders like Hiam Saban, the cartoon-leader of the mediocre intellects, is incapable of learning history’s lessons, that the “terrible power of the purse” has been not the solution to the Jewish question but its cause.

    Getting along well with others, not bullying them and throwing one’s fatuous weight around, is the solution.

    Do all Jews think as you seem to think, that the rest of the world — 99% of the people who walk this earth, are stupid and dependent on Jews to create, innovate, organize, and govern? Do all Jews think as you appear to think that we non-Jews are so stupid that we do not notice that Jews are working overtime to hide from plain sight the facts that Jews are killing Palestinians and stealing their land? Do you really think Jews are going to continue to get away with that behavior by bullying the CEO of Orange, the same way Jews bullied Henry Ford, and the Jews billionaire-bully Jacob Schiff bout the Japanese army to bully Russians, and the Jewish financier Reinach bullied French Catholics, and the Jewish billionaire bullies Warburg, Brandeis, and Baruch bullied Germans?

    Do you really think no one noticed all these things?

    Is there a Nobel prize for obtuse?

    Machiavelli observed half-a-millenia ago that power resides in the people; that unless one obtains and maintains the respectful support of the people, authority to rule them, or persuade them, will fail.

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  231. There is an essential difference this time: we won’t be butchered quite so easily. (you may have missed this, but your friend WotanSohn, alluded to as much in German, when I joked about riding on the wings of the Valkyrie. He said (translation): “yes, we will see what we saw the last time!” Which, coming from a German, can mean only one thing.

    This type of speech is certainly hate speech and borders on an actual threat.

    Shove it up your rosy red, Sam.

    Jews were not “butchered” the first time.

    Jews provoked a fight.

    In spite of all the shit Jews threw at Germans, from the 1870s until — until today! Germans did not retaliate with violence until war was initiated, once again by Jews. Then, German soldiers killed the enemy; that is what war is about. To the extent Jews were the enemy, and they were, Jews were killed.

    No Jew died in gas chamber in Auschwitz.
    Tear down that lie.

    Jewish Hollywood filmmakers were the first to see the camps upon liberation — take a gander at Imaginary Witness: Hollywood and the Holocaust.

    Imaginary witness.
    That’s a clue.
    They saw dead bodies, dead of typhus and starvation, conditions brought about by Allied saturation-bombing of Germany — 75% of Germany was reduced to rubble.

    Sam Shama wrote:

    Your lengthy diatribes .. . .a revisionist history that would have the Nazis as heroes and the USA and its allies villains, threading uninterrupted, a virulent hatred of Jews, for all manner of things from soup to nuts.

    You’ll have to cite quotes for those words; I never wrote them.
    What I have written, in lengthy form, is factual: Allies DID commit war crimes and crimes against humanity against the German and Japanese people, in a war that was entered into on a foundation of lies. I cited Jewish persons and sources who stated those things.

    I have written that Jewish persons were significant participants in the planning of the industrialized slaughter — the incineration of — German people, including babies. I cited documents prepared by the United States Department of the Interior that lays out those facts.

    If you have a quarrel with the facts, I can’t help you.

    You can help yourself, however, by acknowledging reality and refraining from repeating the homicidal behavior.

    If I were WotanSohn or any German person who has been browbeaten and humiliated and calumniated by Jews like you for all their lives, I assure you I would leave no room for your girlie-girlie doubts that “that’s certainly hate speech — that borders on a threat.”

    Tell it to someone who gives a crap.
    Take your wimp-ass whining to the cartoon bully Haim Saban; tell him someone made my feel-bads hurt. Boo hoo hoo.
    Tell him to buy a war and kill some people, the more the better, because somebody is rubbing your nose in your own dirt.

    If I were WotanSohn I would tell you, Stop with the calumnies, you goddam liars or you may find yourselves on the receiving end of that which you only <b<Imagine you </b Witnessed.

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  232. Sam Shama says:

    @SolontoCroesus and other inmates,

    The good doctor Olaf Paulson, describes Cerebral Apoplexy thusly:

    By cerebral apoplexy (stroke) is understood
    the acute occurrence of neurological symptoms
    caused by a vascular lesion in the brain, the
    brain stem or the cerebellum. ………, but
    other symptoms are also seen, for instance,
    aphasia, hemianopia and sensibility disturbances.

    What I thought was simply peevish behaviour of ordinary mean-spirited nazis, might actually be better explained by the foregoing condition.

    To be honest, I do feel I might have a hand, however unintentional, in triggering it, and offer the following excellent institutions for avail post-haste, (the 1st one is Jewish, although the 2nd might prove more effective for the “treatment resistant”):

    http://www.montefiore.org/psychiatry

    http://www.austenriggs.org/about-austen-riggs-center?gclid=CP2_zrnT_cUCFU-PHwodwaIAog

    I shall follow your progress with considerable interest.

    Cheers.

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  233. geokat62 says:

    Speaking of inmates, your suggestion that the goy are in need of treatment is not an original one.

    Here’s how one observer characterized the goal of Theodor W. Adorno’s (a leading member of the Frankfurt School of critical theory) book, The Authoritarian Personality:

    [it] was to eliminate antisemitism by “subjecting the American people to what amounted to collective psychotherapy—by treating them as inmates of an insane asylum.” (emphasis added)

    Too bad more Americans aren’t aware of this. If they were, I’m sure they wouldn’t find your inmate joke that funny!

    btw, what did you say you clocked in at again?

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  234. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    I originally used “inmates” to refer to the occupants of the cacophonous Bestiary of nazis in this discussion. Upon admittance and therapy in the institutions recommended, I shall transpose definition.

    Your grammar and reading comprehension requires remedial intervention. “I clocked at 204″ as opposed to your pedestrian misread, “I clocked in at 204″, where you are very likely thinking of what you do every day, clocking-in and clocking-out, serve to communicate different meanings to the well-read and the not-so-much. It is entirely a function of having a good ear and instruction in grammar, which some countries seem to have dispensed with. Furthermore, and not to put too fine a point on it, ponder on what I actually wrote (not your pedestrian misread), when I spoke of the ‘civilised world’ applauding the Orange CEO.

    parry swords with your equals.

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  235. @Sam Shama

    from an interview with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon by Amos Oz as originally published in the Israeli daily Davar on 17 December 1982.

    “You can call me anything you like. Call me a monster or a murderer. Just note that I don’t hate Arabs. On the contrary. Personally, I am much more at ease with them, and especially with the Bedouin, than with Jews. Those Arabs we haven’t yet spoilt are proud people, they are irrational, cruel and generous. It’s the Yids that are all twisted. In order to straighten them out you have to first bend them sharply the other way. That, in brief, is my whole ideology.

    “Call Israel by any name you like, call it a Judeo-Nazi state as does Leibowitz. Why not? Better a live Judeo-Nazi than a dead saint. I don’t care whether I am like Ghadafi. I am not after the admiration of the gentiles. I don’t need their love. I don’t need to be loved by Jews like you either. I have to live, and I intend to ensure that my children will live as well. With or without the blessing of the Pope and the other religious leaders from the New York Times. I will destroy anyone who will raise a hand against my children, I will destroy him and his children, with or without our famous purity of arms. I don’t care if he is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan. History teaches us that he who won’t kill will be killed by others. That is an iron law.

    “Even if you’ll prove to me by mathematical means that the present war in Lebanon is a dirty immoral war, I don’t care. Moreover, even if you will prove to me that we have not achieved and will not achieve any of our aims in Lebanon, that we will neither create a friendly regime in Lebanon nor destroy the Syrians or even the PLO, even then I don’t care. It was still worth it.

    Even if Galilee is shelled again by Katyushas in a year’s time, I don’t really care.

    We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more, until they will have had enough.

    And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the so-called civilised world.

    “We’ll hear no more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality, the moral lessons of the holocaust or about the Jews who were supposed to have emerged from the gas chambers pure and virtuous. No more of that.

    The destruction of Eyn Hilwe (and it’s a pity we did not wipe out that hornet’s nest completely!), the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre (can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps which we should have committed with our own delicate hands rather than let the Phalangists do it, all these good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a unique people and of being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light. Good riddance.”

    “I personally don’t want to be any better than Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad or Mrs. Thatcher, or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than they are, quicker and more efficient, not better or more beautiful than they are.
    Tell me, do the baddies of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch them, the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don’t suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven.
    I want Israel to join that club.

    Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear me instead of feeling sorry for me.

    Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear my madness instead of admiring my nobility. Thank god for that.
    Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go crazy if one of our children is murdered – just one! That we might go wild and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East! If anything would happen to your child, god forbid, you would talk like I do. Let them be aware in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China that if one of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the most junior embassy official, we might start World War Three just like that !”

    “Let me tell me [sic] what is the most important thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in Lebanon: It is that now they don’t just hate Israel. Thanks to us, they now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris, London, New York, Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their holes. At last they hate all these nice Yids, who say they are different from us, that they are not Israeli thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent. Just like the assimilated Jew in Vienna and Berlin begged the anti-Semite not to confuse him with the screaming, stinking Ostjude, who had smuggled himself into that cultural environment out of the dirty ghettos of Ukraine and Poland. It won’t help them, those clean Yids, just as it did not help them in Vienna and Berlin. Let them shout that they condemn Israel, that they are all right, that they did not want and don’t want to hurt a fly, that they always prefer being slaughtered to fighting, that they have taken it upon themselves to teach the gentiles how to be good Christians by always turning the other cheek. It won’t do them any good. Now they are getting it there because of us, and I am telling you, it is a pleasure to watch.

    “They are the same Yids who persuaded the gentiles to capitulate to the bastards in Vietnam, to give it in to Khomeini, to Brezhnev, to feel sorry for Sheikh Yamani because of his tough childhood, to make love not war. Or rather, to do neither, and instead write a thesis on love and war. We are through with all that. The Yid has been rejected, not only did he crucify Jesus, but he also crucified Arafat in Sabra and Shatila. They are being identified with us and that’s a good thing! Their cemeteries are being desecrated, their synagogues are set on fire, all their old nicknames are being revived, they are being expelled from the best clubs, people shoot into their ethnic restaurants murdering small children, forcing them to remove any sign showing them to be Jews, forcing them to move and change their profession.

    “Soon their palaces will be smeared with the slogan: Yids, go to Palestine! And you know what? They will go to Palestine because they will have no other choice! All this is a bonus we received from the Lebanese war. Tell me, wasn’t it worth it? “Soon we will hit on good times. The Jews will start arriving, the Israelis will stop emigrating and those who already emigrated will return. Those who had chosen assimilation will finally understand that it won’t help them to try and be the conscience of the world. The ‘conscience of the world’ will have to understand through its arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we’ll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We’ll go on until he no longer feels like it…

    “…You probably want to know whether I am not afraid of the masses of Yids coming here to escape anti-semitism smearing us with their olive oil until we go all soft like them. Listen, history is funny in that way, there is a dialectic here, irony. Who was it who expanded the state of Israel almost up the boundaries of the kingdom of King David? Who expanded the state until it covered the area from Mount Hermon to Raz Muhammad? Levi Eshkol. Of all people, it was that follower of Gordon, that softie, that old woman. Who, on the other hand, is about to push us back into the walls of the ghetto? Who gave up all of Sinai in order to retain a civilised image? Beitar’s governor in Poland, that proud man Menahem Begin. So you can never tell. I only know one thing for sure: as long as you are fighting for your life all is permitted, even to drive out all the Arabs from the West Bank, everything.

    “Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers. Worse than the Nazis…If your nice civilised parents had come here in time instead of writing books about the love for humanity and singing Hear O Israel on the way to the gas chambers, now don’t be shocked, if they instead had killed six million Arabs here or even one million, what would have happened? Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been written in the history books, we would have been called all sorts of names, but we could be here today as a people of 25 million!

    “Even today I volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug out from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying.

    Even if it means blowing up a few synagogues, I don’t care.

    And I don’t mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal…

    What your kind doesn’t understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it.”


    ” True, it could have been finished in 1948, but you interfered, you stopped it. And all this because of the Jewishness in your souls, because of your Diaspora mentality. For the Jews don’t grasp things quickly. If you open your eyes and look around the world you will see that darkness is falling again. And we know what happens to a Jew who stays out in the dark.

    So I am glad that this small war in Lebanon frightened the Yids. Let them be afraid, let them suffer. They should hurry home before it gets really dark.

    So I am an anti-Semite ? Fine. So don’t quote me, quote Lilienblum instead [an early Russian Zionist - ed.]. There is no need to quote an anti-Semite. Quote Lilienblum, and he is definitely not an anti-Semite, there is even a street in Tel Aviv named after him. (C. quotes from a small notebook that was lying on his table when I arrived:)

    ‘Is all that is happening not a clear sign that our forefathers and ourselves…wanted and still want to be disgraced? That we enjoy living like gypsies.’ That’s Lilienblum. Not me. Believe me. I went through the Zionist literature, I can prove what I say.

    “And you can write that I am disgrace to humanity, I don’t mind, on the contrary.

    Let’s make a deal: I will do all I can to expel the Arabs from here, I will do all I can to increase anti-semitism, and you will write poems and essays about the misery of the Arabs and be prepared to absorb the Yids I will force to flee to this country and teach them to be a light unto the gentiles. How about it ?”

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  236. KA says:
    @solontoCroesus

    “One of the most chilling parts of the draft, Article 59, extends to activities outside China’s borders. Any of the following vaguely defined actions, if attributed not only to a representative within China but also to a foreign organization abroad, would be a violation: subversion of state power, undermining ethnic harmony, spreading rumors, or “other situations that endanger state security or damage the national interest or society’s public interest.”

    Does it mean that a NGO/ Think ( based outsideChina)Tank expressing negative opinion ,critical comments,exposing secrets ,plans,conspiracies or suggesting remedies that China finds offensive or anti Chinese expression with potential of harming it interest will be considered as criminal by China ?
    I hope that’s not the case .

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  237. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Are you quite sure you are Lydian and not German? Scatalogic words do appear so numerously in your writing (“Bullshit”, “Bull-pucky” (??), “red rosy”, “Shit” etc. etc).

    Michael Lewis’ most enjoyable piece would shed light:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/09/europe-201109

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  238. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus
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  239. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Dear Mr. 204. If your only retort is a grammatical one, what does that say about the strength of your arguments?

    I don’t want to take up too much of my time edifying you, but suffice to say there are two sets of grammar rules: one prescriptive, the other descriptive. One is not superior to the other… it’s a matter of which rules one prefers adhering to. You’re clearly the prescriptive type… me, not so much.

    And with respect to your final remark -”parry swords with your equals.” – I prefer not engaging in a battle of wits with those who are unarmed!

    Once again, what did you say you clocked in at?

    P.S. I’m looking forward to your reaction to Nut and Yahoo’s remarks in the interview that S2C just posted. Curious to see how well you manage to rationalize them.. you being civilized and all!

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  240. geokat62 says:

    Correction, I got my Yahoos mixed up. I meant to write Sharon, not Bibi!

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  241. geokat62 says:

    “Yes I have read that interview. Arik Sharon was a warrior.”

    You guys kill me. When Hitler says more or less the same thing, you pull out the moral card and say he is an evil man. But when it comes out of the mouth of Sharon, … “he is a warrior”!

    I think it was Uri Avnery who once wrote that logic isn’t a Jewish invention.

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  242. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Arik was a warrior, and saw things the way a soldier would. Yet he was much more, imparting on his people the will to transcend passive victimhood (which btw, is what I have been implying on many occasions, including the example of my pragmatic grandmother, and which elicited an apoplectic reaction from the Lydian in our midst).

    The ‘conscience of the world’ will have to understand through its arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we’ll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We’ll go on until he no longer feels like it…

    Of course Arik was rather tunnel-visioned (especially as he mocked the conscience of the Yids). I however believe and repeat, that today, in the USA, UK and Europe, any divisions in interests and endeavours of the Jewish and Christian peoples have all but totally blurred.

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  243. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    It was Avnery, after all. Here is the direct quote:

    LOGIC WAS not given to the People of Israel on Mount Sinai, but handed down from Mount Olympus to the ancient Greeks.

    http://www.antiwar.com/orig/browne.php?articleid=12495

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  244. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    “I however believe and repeat, that today, in the USA, UK and Europe, any divisions in interests and endeavours of the Jewish and Christian peoples have all but totally blurred.”

    I was going to start off by writing: “On what basis do you make this incredible assumption?” But I had to stop myself because your statement is an outright lie! – (see Mearsheimer and Walt’s The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy for details)

    Again, at the risk of repeating myself, it seems that you guys are so full of yourselves and your inflated IQs that you think that the goyim (Hebrew for “cattle”) are so stupid that they will swallow whatever poison you wish to administer!

    Please, show a little respect for the inferior races, will you? I think it was Lawrence Wilkerson that had the best response to this statement when someone confronted him with it. He simply responded, “Bullshit”! Not sure if this is correct using your prescriptive grammar rules, but you get the point.

    btw, are you really sure you clocked in at 204?

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  245. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    My grandfather served with Uri in 1947-48. There is not much logic in war. When it happens, be prepared for all things.

    The Arabs who cry about the Naqba, cut off many Jewish heads and paraded them in J’salem. We did some things too in Deir Yassin

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  246. Why?

    Why do Jews do the things that they do?

    Why? Why?? Why???

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  247. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    There is not much logic in war. When it happens, be prepared for all things.

    Finally, something on which we agree!

    Are you familiar with the story of Oidapus Rex? It is the origin of the self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s worth a reread!

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  248. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    .

    …….you think that the goyim (Hebrew for “cattle”) are so stupid

    I don’t know where you are getting that from. ‘Goyim’ in the original use, stood for the citizens of the country hosting the Jews or ‘Yehudim’. Much later, it came to be used as comprehensive identifier for non-jews, much like the terms ‘black’ and ‘white’ used today. Also, “Notsr’im” is the word used for Christians, identifying ‘those from Nazareth’

    Enough said. I am off to enjoy the rest of the evening, and doubt if I will return to view the Bestiary for a period of time!

    P.S.: Yes. Also have a Ph.D. in Mathematical Economics :-) . And we are not full of ourselves. Only conveying the essentials, as it were, for the benefit of all.

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  249. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “@SolontoCroesus and other inmates,

    The good doctor Olaf Paulson, describes Cerebral Apoplexy thusly:”

    Bad Sammie – Little Jew, hasbara lemming, Big Jew wanabe – death loving Passover sicko.

    Labeling people as crazy is standard Jew 101. Jews ran the internal spy agencies in Stalin’s commie Russia. Murder, the Gulag, reeducation camps, and mental hospitals were the answer to those who dared to speak out against the tribal state.

    (Jews working foe Stalin starved 25,000,000 Ukrainians to death.) (Death – the Passover solution.)

    “You have to be crazy to dislike the Jews” – is standard hasbara cut and paste BS.

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  250. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Rather than providing any evidence for your statement – “today… any divisions in interests and endeavours of the Jewish and Christian peoples have all but totally blurred.” – you chose to quibble with the etymology of “goyim.” Nice try.

    We’re all eagerly awaiting your PhD Mathematical proof!

    btw – anyone who advertises their IQ score when unsolicited is, by definition, full of themselves!

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  251. At a Holocaust event with one of the survivors from the Sobibor breakout, there were Palestinian picketers outside. I considered it tragic that neither most of the Jewish people in attendance nor these picketers could in any way acknowledge the tragedies that have befallen either of the other. Apparently recognizing an equally human face in the other, which acknowledges the legitimacy of their grievance and suffering, is seen as fatally weakening one’s own. This is where perpetual reflexive hatred serves no purpose at all, save to lock in conflict, mutual killing and destruction forever.

    As for sanctions and boycotts, freedom demands that individual conscience must be allowed protest and not be criminalized. I would particularly think that powerful industrial interests which profit financially from war by the continuous manufacture and sale of weaponry, which therefore have a strong incentive to lobby for war, ought to be called out, and restrained however possible, by personal boycott, and from also using the public purse, without public accountability, to further their wealth at our expense.

    It might be seen by some as progress that now that, for instance, Jewish people like Adelman (but it could be any ethnicity) aren’t barred from becoming gambling billionaires, nor from using that regressive wealth to become warmongering donorists who buy up government. But I don’t consider it that a morally crippled banksterism which buys policy in defiance of democratic accountability to be any sort of progress at all, simply because the evil that pervades is equal opportunity. Just because a gangster without being barred by ethnicity can muscle his way to become head of Murder Inc. doesn’t transform that evil into good. The gambling racketeers should never be able to impose their lack of vales on our governance, opportunistic Shmuley Boteach spiritual counselors notwithstanding.

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  252. btw – anyone who advertises their IQ score when unsolicited is, by definition, full of themselves!

    full of something, but my motto for the day is meiden Scheiße.

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  253. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Shorter version of Fran: Can’t we all just get along?

    Fran, the trouble with this approach is that it doesn’t identify who is chiefly responsible for most of the death and destruction in the ME. Haven’t the Arabs come forward with a peace initiative back in 2002? Wasn’t it rejected? Haven’t the Palestinians endured an oppressive occupation long enough? Haven’t the Gazans suffered mercilessly in the world’s largest open air prison? How, in the face of all this, can you sit there and say that both sides need to put aside their differences and make peace when the stronger side is clearly not interested in making peace? What if they are keen on taking all of Mandate Palestine? Do we not have an obligation to stand up to these injustices and say “enough is enough”? Should we not throw all of our support behind the BDS campaign until this Apartheid regime is dismantled?

    I know, a lot of prickly questions… so just consider them rhetorical!

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  254. Art says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “Jewish people like Adelman ”

    Adelman is the very tip of the Jewish money iceberg – we have already lost – they own congress – they own the media – the own Wall Street – Obama cries because the Israelis do not like him – there is another ME war coming. The Jewish iceberg has taken down the American Titanic.

    The Jewish Israeli people voted NO two state solution – NO Palestine.

    The world you want means NO active military tribalism – yet you back the most ardent active military tribalists on our Earth. (And they are demanding more military hardware from us.)

    Please call a spade a spade.

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  255. @Fran Macadam

    Agree with geokat62 for the most part.

    I would emphasize more that Palestinians are the victims and should not be expected to make concessions; it should not be demanded of a person who has been robbed that he graciously bargain away whichever majority share of the loot the robber wishes to keep.

    In a speech in Washington, DC last April Gideon Levey touched on the unique capacity of Israeli Jews to simultaneously kill, imprison, and steal from Palestinians all the while crying that Jews are the victim. He linked that behavior to Golda Meier who said that the holocaust gives Jews the right to do whatever they want. http://www.israellobbyus.org/default.html and http://www.israellobbyus.org/transcripts/4.2Gideon_Levy2.htm (Didn’t Dostoevsky write, “If God is dead then all things are permissible?” Holocaustism is zionism’s god and religion that acts in the reverse of god — logical since holocaustism replaces god, makes a god of itself; a false god.)

    I get to the third set of values that enable us Israelis to live in peace with the occupation. This is maybe the most crucial one and the worst one. We say victimization, we say chosen people. When I say victimization it goes without saying, we have to mention the Holocaust and the unforgettable Mrs. Golda Meir that the American jury had exported to Israel. She said once—this unforgettable woman—that after the Holocaust the Jews have the right to do whatever they want.
    But the third set of values is the most dangerous one. This is the systematic de-humanization of the Palestinians, which enables us Israelis to live in peace with everything because if they are not human beings like us, then there is not really a question of human rights.

    And if you scratch under the skin of almost every Israeli, you will find it there. Almost no one will treat the Palestinians as equal human beings like us. I once wrote that we treat the Palestinians like animals. I got so many protest letters from animal rights organizations—rightly so. But by the end of the day, how many Israelis did ever try for a moment to put themselves in the place of the Palestinians for a moment, for one day.

    That’s one more reason why I think it is essential to the wellbeing of the US Constitutional republic, the American people, Palestinians, and Jewish people everywhere to stop perpetuating and teaching lies about the holocaust/wars in Europe in the 20th century (and in the ME in the 21st century).

    It’s also why I don’t think BDS is the complete answer. The zionist project is unlike South African apartheid in numerous ways, and zionist Jews have never had difficulty battling back against economic constraints — the facts are, in the past century-plus, Jewish people have been at the vanguard of most of the schemes to destroy the economies of other countries. I don’t think BDS will phase Israel sufficiently to bring it down.

    I suggest a frontal attack on holocaustism, Jewry’s most potent ideological weapon.
    Truth is sunlight is a disinfectant.

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  256. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    This exchange is amazing. I read all of it and was really something. I think on this point Sam is correct. There are a lot of Christians in the USA who dearly support Israel. It is plainly in the Bible. Check all the following out. Esp the first one by Rev Robertson is really inspiring

    http://www.patrobertson.com/Speeches/IsraelLauder.asp

    http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

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  257. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I am entering this discussion since a friend of mine told me about it. I am from India and neither Christian nor Jewish.

    My question to both parties is what do you want to achieve? We have seen in my country how difficult it is to find peace when a large minority thinks very differently than the majority and are also looking to the state for help. I mean in the case of Israel, do you guys actually want a 2-state solution or 1-State? The Palestinians have no power. The Jewish guys need to look in their heart. How to achieve this?

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  258. If your solution to the Palestinian problem is support of the American people for removal of the Jewish people from Israel/Palestine and Holocaust Denial, I can tell you that is just not going to happen; not only that, but it plays into the hands of absolutists who will continue to think their own side must triumph completely with ethnic cleansing the only answer, and they will use views like this to point to as examples of how there can be no compromise.

    The idea that millions of Jews can be purged from the area is an ugly echo of the deportations phase of the Third Reich. Even if they wanted to go and would go, and they do not and will not, what country stands ready to welcome millions? That leads to the next phase – genocide. Conversely, this solution is equally as unacceptable and impossible applied to Palestinians.

    One might as well ask millions of European Americans to leave the USA, or millions of African Americans. Or demand American Indians return “home” – to Siberia.

    I’m not as smart as I used to be, but still have more wisdom than to believe in fanciful delusions, no matter the IQ that concocts them.

    If people don’t want to see their own children murdered and maimed, then at some point they are going to have to find accommodation and compromise more desirable.

    For our part, we need to challenge and resist mindless reflexive support for militaristic solutions that clearly don’t work except for those who profit from encouraging conflict. That will require persuasive arguments, which knee jerk antisemitism never will, and with which allying with will completely doom any change.

    We need to be a friend to all, an enemy to none.

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  259. geokat62 says:

    “I think on this point Sam is correct. There are a lot of Christians in the USA who dearly support Israel.”

    I totally agree that many Christian Evangelicals support Israel. There’s no doubt about that. Had he said that, I would not have taken any issue with him. That, however, is not what he said. What he said was that their interests are completely aligned. This is what I took issue with and still do.

    See the difference?

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  260. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “There are a lot of Christians in the USA who dearly support Israel.”

    Christian speech is being controlled by Jew media barons. Not one Christian televangelist will side with the aggrieved Palestinians – not one! How can this be? Is the word out – NO – face time on TV if you do? Sure it is – you can bet your last dollar on that.

    There is no question but that there are many so called Christians who ignore Jesus and go full bore Old Testament Jew. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself – love you enemy – blessed are the peacemakers – live by the sword die by the sword” are all New Testament anti-war words of wisdom. There is a major difference between the old testament and Jesus – one leads to more and more war.

    With that said, the roll of right wing Christians is miniscule compared to the Jews mega money.

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  261. geokat62 says:

    “If your solution to the Palestinian problem is support of the American people for removal of the Jewish people from Israel/Palestine and Holocaust Denial, I can tell you that is just not going to happen…”

    Fran, here is a bare bones outline of “my solution”:

    1) Like other countries that have been “encouraged” to abide by international law, Israel must be required to do the same. This means that Israel must withdraw from all territory it seized through war, including the West Bank (East Jerusalem), Golan Heights, and the Shebaa Farms. It must also end the seige of the Gaza Strip.

    2) I would also make all forms of U.S. support – financial, military, diplomatic – contingent on Israel abiding by all UN Resolutions.

    3) Regarding the issue of the 2SS vs the 1SS, Israel has placed so many “facts on the ground,” that it has rendered the 2SS unviable. If they are not willing to remove all the settlements in the WB, the only other alternatives are an Apartheid state or a 1SS. I think most would agree with me that the latter is preferable to the former.

    If a solution was found to end the violence in N. Ireland, surely one can be found to end the conflict in Palestine. For this to happen, the American people need to hold their representatives accountable and send a clear message that they must not do the bidding of AIPAC or other members of the Israel Lobby. Their representatives must serve and protect the U.S. Constitution by putting American interests ahead of Israel’s.

    Are you supportive of this position?

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  262. You could hope that the Constitution and democratic accountability to the public interest would be the overriding concerns, but it’s been clear that donorism has come to be most influential. One guy with a million bucks buys more influence than a million guys with one buck.

    The other thing to remember, as Arendt wasn’t shy to report accurately from Eichmann’s Jerusalem trial, despite some influential people wanting a more simple moral story, is that betrayal by one’s own leaders is too often part of crimes against any population. Ghetto leaders, out of vanity, cowardice and other character defects, too often collaborated with the Nazis, even choosing who to send to the gas chambers, among other travesties.

    In this, there is nothing exceptional about the Jewish people in comparison to others. We hear all the time from our own leaders about how exceptional what is done in our name is, as well. But are these exceptional deeds truly done for the average American’s interests, or for average citizens’ anywhere, or out of loyalty to no public, but to selfishness and love of money and power in high places? It is difficult to know when so much is kept from us, when deception, secrecy and surveillance have become a policy turned inwards, as Senator Church warned us could happen.

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  263. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Still not sure where you stand on the I/P issue!

    I take no issue with what you’ve just written as it more or less accurately describes the shortcomings of today’s political system, … but why do you continually refuse to take a stand on I/P?

    Might it be that you’re loathe to offend anyone?

    I repeat, are you supportive of the solution I outlined above, notwithstanding the limitations of serving and protecting the U.S. Constitution, especially in today’s political environment?

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  264. If your solution to the Palestinian problem is support of the American people for removal of the Jewish people from Israel/Palestine . . .

    I did not see “removal of the Jewish people from Israel/Palestine” proposed by serious commenters to this article.
    It is not helpful to frame the issues in such extremist terms that, in fact, have not only not been proposed but as geokat62 noted, Arab states have proposed compromise solutions. As well, the Iranian government has consistently and officially stated that it will support whatever decision is arrived at by a referendum (see below, #1).

    . . .and Holocaust Denial, I can tell you that is just not going to happen;

    Nor do I advocate for “holocaust denial.”
    I advocate for telling the entire context of the history, including both sides, all sides of the story.

    I heartily and persistently argue that the demand that the American people “affirm” a holocaust narrative as dogmatized by Jewish organizations such as ADL, USHMM, etc., amounts to a religious test, and further I argue that state enforcement of a religious dogma is in direct and flagrant violation of U.S. Constitutional guarantees.

    . . .not only that, but it plays into the hands of absolutists who will continue to think their own side must triumph completely with ethnic cleansing the only answer, and they will use views like this to point to as examples of how there can be no compromise.

    Quite the contrary.
    The position I argue for, that the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth be the controlling factor in deciding these issues, asserts that equal justice under the law prevail rather than the (disproportionate) wealth and power of one side relative to the other.

    See later comment re “the truth” and Wm. Shirer


    #1.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/24/AR2007092401042.html
    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at Columbia University, Sept. 2007:

    AHMADINEJAD: Is the Palestinian issue not an international issue of prominence or not? Please tell me, yes or no? There’s the plight of a people —

    MODERATOR: The answer to your question is yes.

    AHMADINEJAD : Well, thank you for your cooperation. We recognize there’s a problem there that’s been going on for 60 years. Everybody provides a solution. And our solution is a free referendum.
    Let this referendum happen, and then you’ll see what the results are.
    Let the people of Palestine freely choose what they want for their future. And then what you want in your mind to happen there will happen and will be realized.

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  265. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    In this post we find:

    SolontoCroesus says:
    June 8, 2015 at 12:11 pm GMT • 400 Words
    Nor do I advocate for “holocaust denial.”

    Readers of this post have also certainly noticed that :

    SolontoCroesus says:
    June 7, 2015 at 6:32 am GMT • 500 Words

    Jews were not “butchered” the first time.

    No Jew died in gas chamber in Auschwitz.

    What do these hateful words mean, if not an outright denial of the Holocaust?

    He does not stop there. He in fact threatens that should we continue to talk about the Shoah, he and his bestiary would indeed inflict a new one on us:

    SolontoCroesus
    June 7, 2015 at 6:32 am GMT
    Stop with the calumnies, you goddam liars or you may find yourselves on the receiving end of that which you only <b<Imagine you </b Witnessed

    Shall we look at another example of his obvious desire to deny the Holocaust?

    solontoCroesus
    June 2, 2015 at 2:48 pm GMT
    PS In some ways China is far more free and open than many model Western states: holocaust “denial” is legal in China.

    In other words, he wishes that Holocaust denial were legal in our civilised societies, and were it so, he would be free to lead the charge dispensing with all subterfuge!

    On a more benign point, SolontoCroesus uses Wikipedia in this particular entry, a source which he previously rejected as being “jiggered by Israeli agents”. Its called the * I’ll-use-it-when-it-suits-me Law* of the flexibly principled!

    Wikipedia states:
    “Invincible ignorance is the deductive fallacy of circularity where the person simply refuses to believe the argument ignoring any evidence.”

    Read his comments in their entirety, and decide for yourself, if he and the bestiary are not Holocaust deniers.

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/SolontoCroesus/

    To your comment in German “meiden Shiesse” Mr. SolontoCroesus, I would add in Hebrew (the language of the Bible): Lekh le azazel, ya khara.

    You think we are afraid of you? We know how to deal with Nazis (we continue to hunt the butchers of WWII that hide all over the world).

    Also the USA is not exclusively your country. It belongs to all peoples who live here freely, productively and peacefully.

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  266. http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-967587

    Sam — You have not yet provided credible documentation that a

    overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy, mixed with theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery.

    SolontoCroesus is NOT a holocaust “denier.”

    That category, or epithet, of “denier” presumes as absolutely true that assertions such as those above are beyond doubt and that to “deny” their truth-values heresy, or irrational, or, as Sam Shama repeats, “bestial,” that is, not human. Inasmuch as persons who share Shama’s beliefs have not yet been able to support them with facts, it seems irrefutable to say that the dogmatized holocaust narrative is not based on credible evidence and would not stand up in a just and equitable court of law.

    SolontoCroesus refuses to be boxed into a frame that implicitly affirms that which cannot be rationally proven to be true.
    SolontoCroesus also refuse to be coerced to recite Credo to what has become a dogmatized, i.e. quasi-religious, narrative.
    SolontoCroesus does NOT “deny” the holocaust.
    Neither does SolontoCroesus “affirm” the holocaust, and that most vigorously.

    SolontoCroesus does claim, on the basis of solid evidence and logic, that many parts of the holocaust narrative as it has become dogmatized
    are fabrications;
    are not supported by facts;
    are illogical;
    have been proven to be untrue.
    For example, Ariel Sharon said in 1982:

    “Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers.

    Sharon ‘justifies’ mass murder and the continuation of it on something that never happened; Rabbi Stephen Wise made it up to frighten German Jews into leaving Germany, and to demonize — “bestialize” — the German people so that the American people would acquiesce to a war with Germany that they did not want but that Jewish leaders such as Wise, did want and did provoke.

    Finally, SolontoCroesus does NOT “deny” the holocaust but the facts and reality demonstrate that the entire story has not yet been told.

    Numerous organizations and governments, the majority of them run by or disproportionately influenced by Jewish persons, are engaged in a sustained effort to promote the dogmatized narrative; to conceal an entire corpus of facts and evidence that contradict or modify the dogmatized narrative; and to punish persons who reveal those facts that contradict the dogmatized narrative.

    This practice is just as much an affront to the rights guaranteed by the U S Constitution as is the enforcement of a dogmatized narrative.

    SolontoCroesus does not DENY the holocaust.
    SolontoCroesus maintains that the dogmatized holocaust narrative contains outright lies, half-truths, and lies-by-omission.

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  267. @Sam Shama

    You think we are afraid of you? We know how to deal with Nazis (we continue to hunt the butchers of WWII that hide all over the world).

    Presumably by “we” Sam Shama means “Jews.”

    As the recent prosecution of 93-year old Oskar Groening bears witness, indeed Jews do continue to hunt down men and women who served their country in a time of war in a manner far more legitimately and nobly than did Ariel Sharon; but Sharon was a warrior, and Jewish, and Jewish Scheiße don’t stink.

    It’s also noteworthy that Jewry’s 60-year long paroxysm of Nazi-hunting has been carried out through the government offices of the United States of America (and other nations as well, one supposes), financed by American taxpayers.

    Finally, in the context of the Groening trial, an 80-is year old Jewish woman was interviewed on NPR a few weeks ago. She said she was 10-years old when she, her twin sister and other members of her family were taken to Auschwitz. She recounted having been deathly ill with a fever. She recalled lying in a bed in the German hospital where Dr. Mengele said, with a grin, “She will not live two weeks.”
    The woman told the interviewer: “If I had not lived, Mengele would have killed my twin sister, too, to compare our organs.”
    The woman continued for several minutes, recounting how she had been asked by a lawyer to give testimony against Groening; ruminating on justice,and forgiveness, and the necessity of hunting down “every last Nazi” (presumably using ‘every last dime’ of the American taxpayer).

    The facts are that she lived.
    The facts are that while under the care of “Dr. Mengele,” (according to the Jewish woman) she received medical care that saved her life, despite the prognosis that she would survive for “only two weeks.”

    The common-sense assessment of things remembered about a situation that happened 70 years ago, to a then-ten year old child in a very frightening situation, while deathly ill, suggest to this skeptic that there was more than a bit of embroidery in her recollections.
    But as Norman Finkelstein has stated, “Jews never forgive, Jews never forget*.”

    *as the above scenario demonstrates, “never forgetting” is a highly elastic process.

    —-

    Sam Shama, you being such a patriotic American, would support with all the intensity that you support seeking out Nazis, bringing to justice men and women who have aided and abetted in committing war crimes and crimes against humanity in Germany, such as Erich Mendelsohn, “the Jewish architect;” in Iraq, such as the Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, the Kagans; and those Israelis who deliberately attacked the USS Liberty?

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  268. Sam Shama says:

    Let’s see: solontoCroesus

    does not DENY

    Or

    does NOT “deny”

    . ?

    All can read, verify and discern for themselves, the parts I quoted verbatim and interpreted with simplicity, from your posts. They leave no doubt in the minds of those of us who have a very real and very personal connection to the Shoah.

    You should go to the Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, and get all the documentation you seek. I can arrange a personal guide for you if you wish.

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  269. I honestly think Phil Giraldi’s valid points have been totally obscured through hijacking. They have zero to do with denying the Holocaust, hating the Jews or anything other than the levers of our own government having been subverted away from democratic accountability, by undue covert influence by a foreign government, which happens to be on the wrong path to solve even their own domestic issues. It’s inextricably linked to politically unhealthy domestic donorism, particularly by the likes of Adelman and Saban, who are using their wealth to distort the political process both here and in Israel.

    I categorically and absolutely refuse to hate “the Jews” simply because the Likud government in power is on the wrong path for Israel’s ultimate well being.

    Those who mistakenly believe uncritical support for one political faction in Israel is essential to the future of the Jewish people will need to be convinced by reasons that don’t include the obvious animus that is parallel to discredited Nazi theories and invokes discredited racial stereotypes, displayed by some commentators here, who can’t avoid the characterization by claiming they are not Holocaust deniers, “because you can’t deny what never happened.”

    I don’t agree that even pernicious delusions like Holocaust Denial should be illegal, simply debunked in the most effective way, by the judicious application of free speech condemning it. Rinse and repeat, as necessary.

    And I do not consider Phil Giraldi’s opinions, which I would rather discuss, deserving to be smeared by their proximity to the comments of opportunistic antisemites, who are only allowed to be able to make their postings by the keen dedication to free speech by website sponsor Ron Unz.

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  270. Sam Shama says:
    @Sam Shama

    @solontoCroesus

    If you provide me with your real name etc, I will also buy your ticket and stay in Israel!

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  271. @Fran Macadam

    It’s inextricably linked to politically unhealthy domestic donorism, particularly by the likes of Adelman and Saban, who are using their wealth to distort the political process both here and in Israel.

    The man’s name is Adelson. Sheldon Adelson.

    Sheldon Adelson, the Jewish billionaire gambling-casino magnate who proposed to an audience at Yeshiva University chaired by Rabbi Shmuely Boteach that the U.S. should drop a nuclear bomb in the Iranian desert “as a warning,” and if the Iranians did not get the message and “change their behavior,” then Tehran should be bombed.

    NEW YORK – During a panel at Yeshiva University on Tuesday evening, Sheldon Adelson, noted businessman and owner of the newspaper Israel Hayom, suggested that the US should use nuclear weapons on Iran to impose its demands from a position of strength.

    Asked by moderator Rabbi Shmuley Boteach whether the US should negotiate with Iran if it were to cease its uranium enrichment program, Adelson retorted, “What are we going to negotiate about?”

    Adelson then imagined what might happen if an American official were to call up an Iranian official, say “watch this,” and subsequently drop a nuclear bomb in the middle of the Iranian desert.

    “Then you say, ‘See! The next one is in the middle of Tehran. So, we mean business. You want to be wiped out? Go ahead and take a tough position and continue with your nuclear development. You want to be peaceful? Just reverse it all, and we will guarantee you that you can have a nuclear power plant for electricity purposes, energy purposes’,” Adelson said.

    Read a bit more carefully, Fran Macadam: nobody is promoting Jew hatred — it is you who insist on posting such statements. Unless, of course, you believe that “equal justice under law” and disclosing all the facts — both sides of the balance-scale — about the wars in Europe amounts to “Jew hatred.”

    PS Jacob Schiff kicked off a century of “donorism” that dragged the US into wars, when he paid the Japanese to wage war against Russia in 1906.

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  272. @Sam Shama

    thanks Sam.

    I’d much rather visit Iran, though. I’m conducting some activities with an Iranian Jew & it would be most helpful to deal face-to-face.

    Same offer?

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  273. @Fran Macadam

    I don’t agree that even pernicious delusions like Holocaust Denial should be illegal, simply debunked in the most effective way, by the judicious application of free speech condemning it. Rinse and repeat, as necessary.

    Are you now saying that holocaust denial (not a proper noun or verb) is not invincibly ignorant, that is, not capable (in-) of being conquered (vincible), and therefore not bearing culpability and not a sin?

    But rather that holocaust denial (not a proper noun nor a verb) is in the category of vincible ignorance, vincible, from the Latin, meaning conquerable? And that failure to exert the effort to acquire the knowledge to conquer “holocaust denial” is in itself culpable and therefore a sin?

    Is that what you are saying, Fran Macadam?

    If so, that’s such a dramatic change that it’s in-credible! (in – not capable of; credible, from Latin, to believe) !

    Or, is it credible (credible, from the Latin: capable of being believed) that you have seen the light and agree that evidence + logic form the foundation for sound judgments, and that as our good friend Sam has demonstrated, there is no credible evidence to support much of the holocaust narrative, specifically, Sam could not provide evidence that

    overt genocide was an explicit feature of Nazi policy, mixed with theories of inferior races who deserved extermination or at best slavery. http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-967587

    ?

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  274. Art says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “I did not see “removal of the Jewish people from Israel/Palestine” proposed by serious commenter’s to this article.”

    Exactly – we the modern people of Christian Western culture are not the problem – we celebrated the 1967 victory of Israel over the Arabs. Today the notion of the total destruction of Israel is a canard – it is another victimization screed put out by tribal Zionism.

    The problem is not us and it is not the Arabs – it is Bad Sam and Netanyahu and Sheldon Adelman. The stone cold truth is that the Little Jews and the Big Jews and the rich Jews do not want peace. The Jew mind is not ready to settle for Israel as it is today. They want the West Bank, Gaza, Southern Lebanon, and more of Syria – end of story. They want to be a military financial juggernaut.

    The Sheldon Adelmans of the world control the US government, the Canadian government, the Brit government, the German government, the French government, and the Australian government. Who can honestly say differently?

    The only peaceful way out of this is Boycott Disinvestment Sanction – to ostracize bad people is both rational and moral. Good people have to stop doing business with Jews – period. Good people have to insist that their governments do the same.

    Sorry, but only a mass protest against Jew policies will stop them.

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  275. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam

    It’s inextricably linked to politically unhealthy domestic donorism, particularly by the likes of Adelman and Saban, who are using their wealth to distort the political process both here and in Israel.

    I think you mean Adelson. Fact of the matter is, since Citizens United, political action has changed quite dramatically in this country. This is the result of an explicit ruling by the SCOTUS. Adelson and Saban are doing what judge to be the correct use of their time and resources. I am not sure what the final success or failure rate has been of such donorism. Indeed they are not the only ones, e.g. the Koch bothers (jointly the wealthiest family) are more than quite active as well (and they are not Jewish).

    Those who mistakenly believe uncritical support for one political faction in Israel is essential to the future of the Jewish people will need to be convinced by reasons that don’t include the obvious animus that is parallel to discredited Nazi theories and invokes discredited racial stereotypes, displayed by some commentators here, who can’t avoid the characterization by claiming they are not Holocaust deniers, “because you can’t deny what never happened.”

    Most Israelis would tell you that they wish to live in peace, not engage in endless skirmishes instigated by suicide bombings, rocket attacks and the like. Yet they would instantly recognise false peacemakers who would surreptitiously introduce the” Right of Return for Palestinians”, a tactic both transparent as it is insincere in its declared objectives. The BDS movement is one such. If one were to tell the movement that the RoR is off the table, a large portion of its membership would vanish!

    I don’t agree that even pernicious delusions like Holocaust Denial should be illegal, simply debunked in the most effective way, by the judicious application of free speech condemning it. Rinse and repeat, as necessary.

    Agreed in principle. Not entirely convinced in practice.

    And I do not consider Phil Giraldi’s opinions, which I would rather discuss, deserving to be smeared by their proximity to the comments of opportunistic antisemites, who are only allowed to be able to make their postings by the keen dedication to free speech by website sponsor Ron Unz.

    Agreed once more. I said as much in a previous comment.

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  276. You’re right about Sheldon Adelson’s name. I suppose that jumping on that mistake “proves” everything else is wrong, too… and that Dr. Mengele was therefore a benefactor to mankind. Maybe Jack the Ripper was a “Jacob” too? I wish we could forget about haters, not just misremember their names., some of whom don’t even use them.

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  277. @Fran Macadam

    comments of opportunistic antisemites, who are only allowed to be able to make their postings by the keen dedication to free speech by website sponsor Ron Unz.

    Are you praising Ron Unz for abiding by the principles enshrined in the U.S. Constitution, or are you blaming him for the same?

    And isn’t it astonishing that a citizen of the United States can exercise Constitutional rights to free speech only so long as they do not contravene guidelines laid down by organizations whose overarching agenda is to promote the interests of Israel, rather than of the United States?

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  278. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    The problem is not us and it is not the Arabs – it is Bad Sam and Netanyahu and Sheldon Adelman

    In the future, conduct yourself more professionally, when refer to our titles!

    You forgot: Big Jew, Little Jew, hasbara lemming and Passover Sicko.

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  279. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Touche!

    Once more, not to put too fine a point on it, old William S. had the Bestiary’s number, operating as it does on the principle:

    “Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
    Hover through the fog and filthy air.”

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  280. I don’t blame Ron Unz for allowing commentators who he says he thinks are nuts. More power to him. He has a rather unique but persuasive take on the practical usefulness. Censorship as an attempted cure for disagreement is worse than the disease. I don’t subscribe to “Free speech for me, but not for thee.”

    I’d like to make sure to observe that particular opinions I disagree with don’t lessen or abolish anyone’s humanity.

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  281. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    But as Norman Finkelstein has stated, “Jews never forgive, Jews never forget*.”

    *as the above scenario demonstrates, “never forgetting” is a highly elastic process.

    Yes. Inciting violence against us, indeed wishing to inflict another Holocaust, will not be forgotten.

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  282. @Sam Shama

    Fran Macadam wishes to discuss Phil Giraldi’s analysis and opinion.

    Here’s what we’ve seen so far that seems relevant:

    Dr. Giraldi argued that the US prosecution of the FIFA case, otherwise of little interest to most Americans, was launched at just this time in some relationship to a Palestinian effort to impose a form of BDS on Israel; as Art said:

    The only peaceful way out of this is Boycott Disinvestment Sanction – to ostracize bad people is both rational and moral. Good people have to stop doing business with Jews – period. Good people have to insist that their governments do the same.

    Sorry, but only a mass protest against Jew policies will stop them. http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-970019

    Sam Shama, Fran Macadam’s new BFF, is opposed to BDS:

    –> here, Sam registers triumphalism as the CEO of Orange succumbs to Israeli (and maybe French, American, and Haim Saban) arm-twisting and rescinds his move to sunder his company’s relationship with Israel. http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-969964
    Saban is not mollified but says, “This is not over.”
    Shama, beside himself with schadenfreude, said “The civilised world commends [Orange's CEO]!
    The implication is that Sam considers BDS “uncivilized.” Perhaps even “bestial.”

    Benji Netanyahu, like Sam, is opposed to BDS; he said last week that the “BDS movement is the greatest strategic threat facing Israel.” http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-965686
    (What a relief. Iran is off the hook.)

    geokat62 challenged Fran Macadam to endorse the BDS movement — http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-970852

    BFF Sam sent a billet-doux to Fran Macadam, explaining in heartfelt tones that “Israel wants piece — er, peace! That is why peace-seeking Israeli Jews oppose BDS!

    Most Israelis would tell you that they wish to live in peace, not engage in endless skirmishes instigated by suicide bombings, rocket attacks and the like. Yet they would instantly recognise false peacemakers who would surreptitiously introduce the” Right of Return for Palestinians”, a tactic both transparent as it is insincere in its declared objectives. The BDS movement is one such. If one were to tell the movement that the RoR is off the table, a large portion of its membership would vanish!

    Jews in Israel want to keep for themselves all of those pieces of land that have been stolen from Palestinians, piece fully; bulldozed out from under Palestinians, piece fully; , occupied by settlers using brute force, piece fully.

    In Shama-think, “The Right of Return” is not a principle of international law but a “surreptitious . . .bold . . .insincere . . .tactic” the objective of which Shama only alludes to but condemns nonetheless.
    The objective, of course, is to obtain what every complainant in a court of equity seeks: return of property and rights wrongfully taken from him.

    Sam Shama objects to the use of non-violence to enforce the rule of law.

    Fran Macadam has so far (276. comments into the discussion!) failed to stake out a position on BDS.
    Fran Macadam has been quite vocal in condemning equal justice under law as well as full-throated respect for Freedom of and From Religion/Religious tests, and also complete Freedom of Speech in another contentious and related arena, that of refusal to give one’s Credo to the false religion of holocaustism; such individuals Fran has branded as “haters” and “delusional” and “invincibly ignorant.”

    But so far, no stand on BDS or other ways to support Palestinians in their peaceful attempt to reclaim their rights to live as free people in dignity and sovereignty on the land that was stolen from them by Israelis such as Ariel Sharon who is on record as rejoicing in the murderous actions of “peace-seeking” Israelis that have brought Palestinians to the tragic situation they are in today.

    In other news: Israel requested, so US Congress complied and ‘sold’ (heh. try & collect) tons of weapons to Israel. The initial speculation was that Israel would use the weapons to attack Iran, but it was pointed out that the cache did not include the kind of penetrating bombs necessary to destroy Iran’s underground facilities. It is therefore more likely that Israel will attack Lebanon, again, this summer.
    According to Avigail Abarbanel, war is how Israelis release tension.

    Other people pray the Rosary.

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  283. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “Most Israelis would tell you that they wish to live in peace,”

    Bad Sam – Little Jew, hasbara lemming, BDS poster boy, advocate of The Passover Solution.

    That is another outrageous lie. Israelis voted NO peace NO Palestine in the last election.

    “By deception we make war” – Mossad

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  284. @Sam Shama

    Yes. Inciting violence against us, indeed wishing to inflict another Holocaust, will not be forgotten.

    1. Who is this “us”?

    Are you American?

    2. I am absolutely certain you will twist my words — I posted a conditional statement: IF A, then B. Stop doing A and B will not eventuate.

    3. the term “another holocaust” is a null set.

    4. Anything that is said or done to some Jewish people is hyperbolized to “a holocaust.”

    The brand is worn out, Sam Shama.
    Get over yourself.
    Get a new gig.
    The more the holocaust is raised as an issue the more people will be incited to explore what really happened, and the more people will become resentful that they have been lied to — just as Jeremy Ben-Ami said to his children’s Hebrew teacher.
    Besides, “never forgive never forget” is a really really unhealthy way to live.
    Try counting your blessings instead.

    5. If you’re trying to impose a chilling effect, save your breath.
    (OTOH, repeatedly asking for my “real name” is creepy. Stop it.)

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  285. Today, June 8 2015, is the anniversary of Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty during the 1967 war.

    https://goosegander.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/remembering-the-uss-liberty/

    34 American servicemen died.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

    174 American servicemen were wounded

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

    Mathilde Krim, former wife of an Israeli terrorist , a passionate zionist, and then- wife of an ardent supporter of Israel, Hollywood film producer and Democratic rain-maker Arthur Krim was asleep in the White House when the attack occurred. According to LBJ’s long-time secretary, the president consulted Mathilde Krim in preparing his response to the situation.

    The response was for planes that would have attacked the aggressing Israeli planes to Stand Down.
    Rescue ships were turned back.

    Israelis insist the attack was accidental.

    Those who argue otherwise are labeled “haters,” “antisemites,” “conspiracy theorists.” Maybe even “bestial” and “Lydians.”

    Men who survived the attack on the USS Liberty have not been permitted to give testimony before congressional committees about the event.

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

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  286. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Adelson and Saban are doing what judge (sic) to be the correct use of their time and resources. I am not sure what the final success or failure rate has been of such donorism.

    Not sure of the success rate… really? Getting the U.S. to pay an annual tribute of $3.5B, provide steadfast military and diplomatic support, fully sign on to taking out 7 Muslim countries in 5 years. If this is not success, I don’t know what is!

    Most Israelis would tell you that they wish to live in peace…

    They may tell you that, but when it came to voting for peace, they voted for Sharon “the warrior”!

    Mr. 204. I don’t care what your purported IQ is. That’s because there is a thing called credibility… and when you make statements such as the ones above, you are left with little credibility, regardless of how high your IQ is!

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  287. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Macadam

    “I’d like to make sure to observe that particular opinions I disagree with…”

    With all due respect Fran, it is very clear as to which opinions you disagree with. You are against hate and the like. The trouble is, it is next to impossible to discern what your opinions are as they relate to the key questions in this debate!

    Could you do us all a favour and tell us whether you support the “solution” I outlined previously? We’d all like to know where you stand!

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  288. Art says:
    @geokat62

    “Mr. 204.”

    I think maybe Bad Sam took a head bobber IQ test – Sorry sorry – that is not nice – forgive me!

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  289. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    To all those who deny the attack on the USS Liberty was deliberate, I invite you to watch this BBC documentary:

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

    The highlight of the video is a quote by Research Officer, Dave Lewis, at 21:01

    “If it was an accident, it was the best planned accident I’ve ever heard of.”

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  290. Sam Shama says:

    BDS is an immoral and extortionary idea that threatens the peace process and the goal of the 2SS.

    Professor Alan Dershowitz does the needful in this discussion:

    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.573880

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  291. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    The U.S.S. Liberty Incident.

    It was a tragedy, deeply lamented in Israel.

    I have written about it before.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/david-brooks-explains-it-all-2/#comment-964401

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  292. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    “BDS is an immoral and extortionary idea that threatens the peace process and the goal of the 2SS.”

    Peace process??? What peace process are you referring to? I know, I know… the emphasis is on process, not peace (wink/wink, nudge/nudge)!

    Ah, yes… the venerable Alan Dershowitz… that beacon of virtue who is being accused of having sex with an underage girl!

    For those who don’t know, Dershowitz is the author of The Case for Israel. As the title suggests, it’s a passionate defense of the Zionist project. Trouble for Dershowitz is that both Profs. Finkelstein (Beyond Chutzpah) and Neumann (The Case Against Israel) completely demolish his arguments. Here”s a link to a short review of Neumann’s book.

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/book-review-case-against-israel/59

    Once again, credibility is a precious commodity, don’t squander it!

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  293. Sam Shama says:

    They may tell you that, but when it came to voting for peace, they voted for Sharon “the warrior”!

    I am sure you meant Bibi Netanyahu. We are not going to change each other’s perceptions quite so easily, and you can choose to believe what you wish. If your cousin and friends were torn to pieces by a bomb during a wedding the colour of the lens would change rapidly.

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  294. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Your man Finkelstein(check your information) is actually against RoR for Palestinians. Its a non-starter and only idiots would insist on it. Your ill-conceived poppycock BDS will fail.

    btw disparaging Prof Dershowitz’s character , arguably the keenest legal mind and one of the most talented jurists in the world, (the false allegations have been dismissed), won’t help your cause or your credibility.

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  295. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    I am sure you meant Bibi Netanyahu.

    How soon they forget! Don’t you remember when your hero, “the warrior” (better known as the “Butcher of Beirut”) defeated Ehud Barak, who was striving to reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians?

    Here is how the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA) reported on the election results of 2001:

    In one of the more remarkable comebacks in Israeli political history, former Gen. Ariel Sharon completed the long road back from the disgrace of the Lebanon War when voters overwhelmingly chose him as prime minister of Israel.

    Sharon’s landslide victory Tuesday was as much a product of disillusionment – – with the peace process, with the ongoing Palestinian violence and with the personality of incumbent Prime Minister Ehud Barak — as it was an endorsement of Sharon himself.

    This was the beginning of the end of the peace process!

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  296. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    “… the false allegations have been dismissed…”

    Just because they were dismissed, doesn’t mean they were false. Weren’t the charges against Dominique Strauss-Kahn similarly dismissed? Does anyone really believe he is innocent? Dismissed charges are easy to come by, provided you have deep pockets and are well connected.

    btw – while it’s true that Finkelstein does not support BDS, he is still a man for whom I have a great deal of respect. As the saying goes: no one is perfect!

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  297. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    “It was a tragedy, deeply lamented in Israel.”

    Deeply lamented… for getting caught!

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  298. Coming into the Tent to Confront the Camel: Three More Mainline Christian Churches to Consider BDS Resolutions

    “Understanding Netanyahu’s intent and policy is not guess work at all, it is consistent with the historical record for any who bother to look,” said Rev. Dr. Jeffrey DeYoe, moderator of the Israel Palestine Mission Network (IPMN) of the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA). “Talk of a two-state solution, even with Netanyahu resurrecting that language after being elected, is a cynical delaying tactic.”

    “Netanyahu is going to cost us Palestinians a tremendous amount of suffering, and more atrocities and policies of oppression,” said Bisan Mitri of the West Bank town of Beit Sahour. “But this also means that the mask has been dropped.”

    Mitri is one of 3,000 Palestinian Christians, including the heads of 13 churches, who signed the Kairos Palestine document calling for: “boycott and disinvestment as tools of nonviolence for justice, peace and security for all.”

    Last year, the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) and United Methodist Church (UMC) divested from several U.S. companies involved in the occupation. Various Quaker bodies have done the same.

    “Negotiations are not productive and other avenues must be tried,” said a statement by the United Methodist Kairos Response, a grassroots group within the UMC. “The avenues recommended by our own faith community in the Holy Land, the Palestinian Christians, include boycott and divestment as well as sanctions.”

    This June, three more U.S. churches—the Episcopal Church, the United Church of Christ (UCC), and the Mennonite Church USA (MCUSA)—will join the growing list of those listening to the Kairos Palestine call and considering resolutions to end financial support for the occupation.

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  299. If people want to participate in boycotts, that is their own decision and no one else’s. It is one thing to insist businesses should be open to serve everyone, quite another to compel people to buy from those they don’t wish to. Was it wrong to boycott the apartheid state South Africa?

    If not, why not?

    There is a strong moral dimension to not wanting to enable illegal settlements to profit from their illegal actions. Moreover, if people are forced to do business with them against their will, this supplies the economic strength for them to ignore the law. Why citizens of one country should be compelled by their own laws to subsidize illegal activity in another, is logically incoherent, and introduces the absurdity of forced extraterritorial complicity in what they believe to be wrong.

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  300. I am of the same opinion as Glenn Greenwald about Alan Deshowitz. Dershowitz claims that both Edward Snowden and Greenwald ought to be jailed as traitors for informing the American public that indiscriminate mass surveillance had been turned against them. No lover of government accountable to the American public is Dershowitz. It was despicable of him to paint whistleblowers who expose wrongdoing in high places shrouded by secrecy and correctly adversarial journalists as “terrorists.” It’s clear Dershowitz is one who serves the cause of a foreign nation before that of America, with his first loyalty elsewhere and not even to a higher cause than country, such as liberty. Not so Snowden, Greenwald, Poitras, Scahill and others of courage, whose critical journalism serves the cause of truth, that publicly precious commodity so scarce among politicians and lawyers like Dershowitz.

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  301. @Sam J.

    I wonder what SolontoCroesus thinks of your evidence favouring the view that it is totally unsurprising that an impoverished Germany with low class leadership might throw up leaders and senior powerful functionaries who would want Juden raus, extend that logically to their intended Lebensraum, and surreptitiously (for reasons that don’t require explanation) decide that it is time for a Final Solution consistent with established domestic practices designed (surreptitiously) to get rid of expensive-to-maintain Untermenschen????

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  302. @SolontoCroesus

    OMG you are a chump. You read that unlikely supposed interview and didn’t recognise it for what it was (adapted by distortion from something Amos Oz actually did write – have you ever heard of satire?).

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  303. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Quite. LOL. I almost choked on my morning bite…. Comedy when it results from an overzealous attachment to tinpot revolution, tends to yield classic howlers!…..

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  304. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    He did remark : Juden shiesse does not stink!? or something to that effect.

    To which I say: Lo, az achshav tukhal et ze, me ha takhat shelanu!

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  305. @Wizard of Oz

    Sam Shama says:
    June 7, 2015 at 4:54 pm GMT
    @SolontoCroesus
    Yes I have read that interview. Arik Sharon was a warrior.

    http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Autobiography-Ariel-Sharon/dp/074322566X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1433695906&sr=1-1&keywords=ariel+sharon&pebp=1433695913053&perid=0PMBHCYBS6WHJ5HBCXPB

    THEN Sharon turned from Sam Shama’s “warrior” into the object of satire:

    Wizard of Oz says:
    June 9, 2015 at 3:12 pm GMT
    @SolontoCroesus
    OMG you are a chump. You read that unlikely supposed interview and didn’t recognise it for what it was (adapted by distortion from something Amos Oz actually did write – have you ever heard of satire?).

    Whereupon Shama played a quick game of “Change that tune” , my guess is out of embarrassment that a fellow hasbarat had subtly upbraided him.

    Sam Shama says:
    June 9, 2015 at 4:47 pm GMT
    @Wizard of Oz
    Quite. LOL. I almost choked on my morning bite…. Comedy when it results from an overzealous attachment to tinpot revolution, tends to yield classic howlers!…..

    pathetic.

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  306. @SolontoCroesus

    So SolontoCroesus, caught out badly, now is determined to prove agaim that he has an obsessive’s tin ear. I am a “hasbarat” he says. I find that is defined as something like “Zionist troll” which has no basis whatsoever and is untrue. I have no Jewish ancestry and have only been to Israel once – and that recently to take advsntage of an interesting opportunity.

    I wonder if you are that chap who got some good results in history exams at school and then studied law but descended then into being a minor legal aid lawyer whose obsessiveness about Holocaust related matters got him deposed as local civil rights chair and reduced to peddling his wares, quite amiably, via a new civil rights body consisting of him and his partner? The memory comes back of the amiable obsessive nerd I came across during a politucal campaign 40 years ago. But, no, he wouldn’t have rudely and ignorantly thrown in “hasbarat”.

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  307. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Read. Swallow. Repeat. Notice that I linked the original book in which reference to such an interview is made. Read the [email protected] of Oz and I are no Hasbarat. If you stop using that stupid term I promise I will not ask for your real name (“OTOH asking for my real name is creepy. Stop it”) : ok Mango!

    Tell me something: did you learn to hate Jews as a child?

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  308. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    But, no, he wouldn’t have rudely and ignorantly thrown in “hasbarat”.

    I am a new reader of the Review. I must say that, never in my years have I seen anything that remotely compares to the epithets flung at Jews, as they are in this webzine. At some point I intend to go over the collection carefully, which includes gems such as: Big Jew, Little Jew, Hasbara Lemming, Juden Shiesse, Passover Sicko, Jew Child.

    It is possible of course, that Ron Unz makes this website available as a therapeutic medical device for those who need to vent their frustrations, thus diminishing the likelihood of actual violence, in which case it is indeed a public service. What I increasingly suspect, is that this visceral rage and hatred for Jews (quite apart from a dislike for Zionism) is sui generis.

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  309. geokat62 says:

    “Tell me something: did you learn to hate Jews as a child?”

    That’s one explanation. Here’s another that was previously posted by Jeff Davis here on Unz:

    For five thousand years the Eliezer ben Yehudas have been making the same mistake. It got them thrown out of Egypt by the Pharoah, thrown out of old Israel by the Romans, thrown out of Spain and Portugal by the Catholic church, and nearly exterminated in Europe by the Nazis. And that’s not counting the hundreds of other lesser incidents of reaction across the planet in that period. (Ever ask “Why?” Post-holocaust that question has been toxic in its political incorrectness. See Mark Twain’s “Concerning the Jews” for the answer.) Now they’re making the same mistake in Zionized Palestine.

    This is a pattern of five thousand years. Never varied from, never with a different result. And smart as the Jews are, they never figure it out, they never learn. They go somewhere, they do well for themselves, they get powerful, then they get abusive toward the locals, and finally they get constrained, enslaved, booted out, or murdered. Then clueless and in denial they shriek “Anti-Semitism!” Now they’re at it again.

    They came to America, prospered as never before, and with their immense contribution to American progress, helped make America great. Yet now out of irrational — if not suicidal — tribal preference for the Zionist criminal state, the Jews betray the US, the ***REAL*** promised land that gave them every freedom and benefit they ever dreamed of. When the 300 million non-Jewish Americans figure out how they’ve been betrayed — courtesy of cell phone cameras and the internet — the Jews will find themselves on the receiving end of the next “reaction”. (Though I suspect the American version will be less than outright mass murder.)

    Eliezer writes: “We already won this game.” Ya think so? Guess again. A billion and a half outraged Muslims, the larger and ever more disapproving world, and the record of five-thousand years says otherwise.

    Got all A’s in school, flunked life.

    By the way, I’m an American and a Jew.

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  310. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Here’s another explanation, previously posted, by Davis:

    Marvelously cogent observation. Post WW2, post-holocaust, that observation would have been nearly impossible. It would have been so monstrously politically incorrect. As an American and a Jew I never once heard anyone ask the simple question”Why?” regarding the reasons behind the holocaust. (Just as post-911, the obvious question — Why? — was not asked. George Bush then pre-empted the question by offering his ridiculous “They hate us for our freedoms.”) Similarly, the “reason” offered for the holocaust was “anti-Semitism”, a fluffy, substance-free non-explanation explanation.

    The reason for all the anti-Jewish reaction down the millennium from Egypt to Hitler to the next one, the one being built in the Zionist criminal project, is the same, and you hit it on the head: the Jews go somewhere, do well — for themselves and others — till they finally come to dominate, get abusive toward the locals, and get chased out……… or worse. Tragically, as you have observed, it’s always the Anne Franks, the little people, who pay the price for the abuses of the wealthy elite.

    Not until I was fifty did I find a reality-based treatment of the “Why?” I found it in Mark Twain’s “Concerning the Jews”, which should be required reading for everyone, most particularly for my fellow Jews. That is if anyone is interested in changing the five-thousand year Jewish habit of attempted suicide-by-Goy.

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  311. Blake says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Full of admiration for how it came into being at expense of 90% of the native people it ethnically cleansed out using terrorist gangs who now languish in refugee camps in a state of limbo 67 years ago? the longest & largest refugee problem. Either you have not done your homework or lack basic human morals and ethics

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  312. @geokat62

    Interesting quotes. I look forward to someone dealing with the historical facts perhaps starting with the mythical character of Genesis and Exodus (wanting to live up to a myth is as important a possibility as the likely reality that the Egyptian precedent cited just doesn’t stand up).

    Then the character and treatment of Jews in the Muslim world and then in Christian Spain perhaps shouldn’t be equated too readily with Ashkenazi Jews.

    The German Jewish experience was one of very substantial assimilation and intermarriage and they were little more than 1 per cent of the population. By contrast the problems in Eastern Europe could be said to have arisen from rapid population growth – outsripping the jobs available for smart Jews – which meant that it was competition amongst the relatively poor, who would know nothing about rich and powerful Jews, that became the dangerous territory for Jews.

    On the other hand if Judaism was just religion, maybe several of them, that would take away the nationalistic,/ethnic/tribal aspect of the competition. Is that a thought worth following up? Maybe a black Ivy League academic would have some feeling for the answer – or would have 50 years ago anyway…

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  313. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “Jew Child”

    Oh my god’ – what is the world coming too?

    Who would dare insult a true 204 hasbara lemming with that epithet?

    Tell me and I will give them hell.

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  314. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Shama

    “And you should practice your swing at Teheran/Khamenei/Ahmedinejad habitually and casually calling for the death and destruction of America and Israel..”

    Tell your hasbara teachers to update their handouts. Ahmadinejad has not been in power for years.

    It’s the imperial regime in Washington some there want destroyed, BTW. Just like Israelis and Israeli-firsters in America are calling for the destruction of Islamic Iran. There’s quite a difference.

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  315. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Speaking for myself (and quite possibly for many of my friends), I can say that we are driven by our own set of unique and common experiences in life. The conjecture made by you and Davies here, cannot perhaps be dismissed out of hand. I shall read the book and share my thoughts (if you like) in due course.

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  316. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    I like.

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  317. @Blake

    @ Blake
    Please do everyone the courtesy of reading what you respond to.

    I said

    “I’ve just returned from Israel full of admiration for what I saw (as well as entertainment and not without awareness of Potemkin villages – not in evidence among the Bedouin- and plenty of 20s and 30s precedents for turning tourists into useful idiots).

    “However I don’t think ill aimed blunderbuses are useful weapons in controversy and to describe someone with the name Giraldi as a WASP – unless you know more about him than I suspect you do – just won’t sustain your credit with the jury.” [After which I added a lot more criticism of what the presumably Zionist commenter that I was replying to said] In short, I was on the mildly provisionally anti-Israel side trying to be careful and courteous so as to leave the issues to reason rather than rant and vituperation.

    To which, after more than enough time to get your thoughts straight you respond

    “Full of admiration for how it came into being at expense of 90% of the native people it ethnically cleansed out using terrorist gangs who now languish in refugee camps in a state of limbo 67 years ago? the longest & largest refugee problem. Either you have not done your homework or lack basic human morals and ethics”

    What, may I ask, has that got to do with what I said and the way I said it. (Just to be very precise I had already made clear that what I admired was what I had seen so effectually denying already your hypothesis and making it redundant except as rhetorical excess for reasons not obvious.

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  318. @SolontoCroesus

    Anonymous No. ??

    You say

    “Do you get your information about Nazi Germany from that same source as Wizard of Oz when he/she says “the Nazis led to that word [racial] being off limits except when replacing the old-fashioned “racialist” with the “racist” ha-boo insult [whatever that means].” How is your ascription of the “higher standardness of Jews” different from Wiz. of Oz’s claim that Nazis were racist?

    It would be a service to all mankind if commenter like Wizard of Oz created a database for us skeptics, to convince us that what he/she believes to true actually has a foundation in reality.

    The database will need to provide excruciating detail, citing sources and full context, of Nazi racialism, with special attention paid to detailing how Nazis killed people just because they were not blond and blue-eyed, and killed Jews just because they were Jews; and refrained from killing people just because they were blonde and blue-eyed and just because they were not Jews.”

    I had said

    “I wouldn’t have quibbled if the word used had been “tribal” (Einstein referred to his “tribe”) or “ethnocentric”.

    Disraeli wouldn’t have had a problem with “race” or “racial” but the Nazis led to that word being off limits except when replacing the old-fashioned “racialist” with the “racist” ya-boo insult. I note that there is potentially a gain in precision as a result because “race” was obviously not an accurate pointer to persons of common genetic ancestry as used by those acclaiming their culture in the 19th century as in “this island race”.

    What is the best single word? What about the Jewish “people”?”

    So, let me, in the spirit of a patient tutor of an undergraduate whose ambitious parents would like their boy or girl to be able to go to a respectable graduate school even without a summa cum laude or first class honours which would be asking too much, ask a few questions to help you get your thinking straight.

    1. Where did Wizard of Oz say the Nazis were “racist”?
    Quite. Do you not see that he was actually deprecating the use of the word “racist” at all? Well, perhaps you would have if you had correctly read his description of its use as a “ya-boo” insult. Oh, you don’t know what that means. Guess. Yes, you’re not far off. He is indeed referring to utterance which has no part in rational discourse but serves merely to express insult. (It would have helped perhaps if you had not misread ya-boo as ha-boo).

    2. Now that we have got past what *you* wanted to say rather than what someone else had actually said that you were using as a hook for your prejudices, what do you think was the point of the passages which you have misrepresented? Yes, well done, I was about to give up on your prospects but of course you can see that it was a discussion of the appropriate terminology for describing the nature of some human groups.

    3. But you will have to do a bit of work on plain logic too as the discussion was really about usage and how current fashions came about. Think about this…. W of O did not say that the Nazis were racist but made reference to the well known fact that, as a result of what people connected discussion of race to after the Nazi era (starting with anti-Jewish laws, Hitler’s actual or alleged behaviour at the 1936 Olympics, Kristallnacht etc.) it became taboo in many circles to treat race as discussable or the word as easily useable in an ordinary respectable calm discussion of facts and ideas. Yes, indeed, you are right to guess that it was Jews and educated Upper Middle Class Christians and agnostics first in the Anglosphere but then most strongly in Germany who led the change in acceptability of the race words. Indeed it has made discussion of h-bd matters quite difficult for several decades and not been helpful to the solving of some real problems (e.g. giving incentives to planned parenthood in Africa, though the Vatican continues to have a bad influence there, as do some of the more primitive Muslim clerics).

    4. You may care to do a bit of research into the acceptability of the word “race” before 1933 and indeed the lack of stigma if one admitted to being a “racialist” [sic - not "racist"]. If you are finding some difficulty with the weekly essay requirement perhaps you could manage a short one on reasons for the change in acceptable usage over the 20th century. In the course of that research you might care to see if John Maynard Keynes gave reasons in 1943 for resigning as Vice-President of the Malthusian Society…..

    And please don’t come back until you are better prepared and willing to try and meet our standards.

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  319. @geokat62

    Remind me. What’s the book?

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  320. @SolontoCroesus

    Hey Sam, mate. I’m more or less on your side so don’t let me down. You didn’t just say you had read the phony interview, you actually quoted it as if it was genuine – proof of Sharon’s rough warrior character. You shouldn’t give the hostages to the fortunes of verbal war that you did to the obsessive StoC. But it is interesting……

    You are shown to have attitudes which, e.g. some would expect Daniel Pipes to express at least privately – very tough realist attitudes not to put a bleeding-hearts spin on it.

    StoC is shown to have the kind of prejudices which makes him believe that he was reading a genuine interview with Ariel Sharon (ignorant one supposes too of the way in which Amos Oz – né Klausner would have presented such an amazing coup).

    Moi? I would be happy to see the whole of Israel evacuated by secular Ashkenazi and traditional Sephardi Jews to the Anglosphere where their brains would do more good than in Israel. Happy to leave the Palestinians to see how their Israeli Arab cousins enjoy living with them and to see what good multiculturalists they can be in dealing with the Bedouin and Falasha Jews! And the Haredim too!

    Oh dear, I had better add for the over literal on this thread that I do not expect any advance on my last paragraph fantasy to bring it out of the realm of pure fantasy.

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  321. Stop, there is more. I think I’m on just the right thread. No need to disappoint Zionists or antis. I have a wonderful bridge to sell to Americans who must be lamenting that the activist Fed can’t actually get things done with its money that need doing while Congress wants to be bloody-minded.

    You’ve seen the wonderful Sydney Opera House on many a poster and online ad. But remember that marvellous 1932 creation the Sydney Harbour Bridge. It’s just the thing with a little patching up to replace some of the US’s crumbling infrastructure and get people to work in NYC from NJ in good time, Republican governors not standing in the way…

    And you and your syndicate can make real money from this right through your long and happy retirement. Just send your $10,000 deposit to the Box number and my associates in Nigeria will fix up the paperwork.

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  322. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    After reading that blighted entry by @SolontoCroesus, I concluded that the man was simply and true to form, carrying on with his concocted assertions and “data”, found exclusively in the echo chambers of Holocaust revisionism. Which therefore, despite the obvious howler, resulted in less than total asphixiation.

    I purposely referred to the autobiography of Sharon (with David Chanoff)

    http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Autobiography-Ariel-Sharon/dp/074322566X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433954001&sr=8-1&keywords=ariel+sharon&pebp=1433954005669&perid=5B20C784EE724D4CA0B8

    where Chanoff dealt with distortions of several interviews, seized upon by what is now gloriously called the “electronic intifada”.

    So there it is. Obviously, I ought to have been far more direct in my retort (making good use of quotation marks around “interview”), but it was getting to be rather tiresome.

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  323. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ….lamenting that the activist Fed can’t actually get things done with its money that need doing while Congress wants to be bloody-minded.

    that marvellous 1932 creation the Sydney Harbour Bridge. It’s just the thing with a little patching up to replace some of the US’s crumbling infrastructure and get people to work in NYC from NJ in good time, Republican governors not standing in the way…

    What a capital idea! might even pass the test for our “I haven’t got a bean” governor, firm in his belief, that spending & fat ought only be restricted to personal corpulence.

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  324. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    In the course of that research you might care to see if John Maynard Keynes gave reasons in 1943 for resigning as Vice-President of the Malthusian Society…..

    Hear, hear!

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  325. geokat62 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Concerning the Jews, by Mark Twain. It is actually a short essay (15 pages).

    Here’s the link to the essay:

    http://www.uic.edu/depts/hist/hull-maxwell/maxwell/chapters/russheb/section1/documents/twain/CONCERNING-JEW.pdf

    Here is the Wikipedia entry:

    Twain had lived in Austria during 1896, and opined that the Habsburg empire used scapegoats to maintain unity in their immensely diverse empire, namely Jews. In 1898 he published the article “Stirring times in Austria”.

    Twain’s account generated several letters, and one poignant response in particular from an American Jewish lawyer who asked Twain: “Tell me, therefore, from your vantage-point of cold view, what in your mind is the cause. Can American Jews do anything to correct it either in America or abroad? Will it ever come to an end? Will a Jew be permitted to live honestly, decently, and peaceably like the rest of mankind? What has become of the golden rule?”[1] In response, Twain penned “Concerning the Jews,” which Harper’s also published in 1898.

    The essay included the statement that Jews did not do their part in terms of fighting in America’s armed forces: “He is a frequent and faithful and capable officer in the civil service, but he is charged with an unpatriotic disinclination to stand by the flag as a soldier – like the Christian Quaker.” However, when War Department figures revealed that Jewish Americans were actually represented in the nation’s military in a larger percentage than their share of the population, Twain issued a retraction and an apology,[2] entitled “Postscript – The Jew as Soldier.”

    The essay also included a somewhat positive account of the Jewish people, with regard to their survival: “The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?”[3]

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  326. @geokat62

    Thank you for the link to Twain.

    You would be aware no doubt of an article or essay that Einstein wrote about 1937 titled, roughly’ “Why People Hate Jews”. It stuck in my memory for its early proposing of the idea that Jewish achievement in cognitively demanding areas is cultural and not genetic….

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