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How the Italians are dealing with it
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I recently spent a few days in Rome and Venice. I won’t lie and say it was a business trip, but I did talk to some local people as well as cops and officials about the migrant/refugee/asylum seeker crisis that is overwhelming much of Europe. Italy is particularly vulnerable as islands in its territorial waters are just a short boat trip from North Africa. There is not a unified European policy regarding what to do about the influx and many politicians are cautiously referring to the newcomers using the neutral expression “migrants.”

More than 200,000 men, women and children sailing from ports in Libya have reached Italy this year and there are reports that as many as 250,000 more are waiting in camps to attempt the crossing into Europe. Many of the new arrivals in Italy are there for economic reasons, looking for jobs in northern Europe and Britain. They are predominantly male and young, but the number of those genuinely fleeing from the fighting in the Middle East accompanied by family members has also been increasing through the summer. Those arriving are mostly Muslims but include considerable numbers of Christians from sub-Saharan Africa, frequently from Nigeria and the Francophone states. Many of those picked up by the Italian navy at sea are being housed initially in squalid government run camps located on the island of Lampedusa before being moved on to Sicily and the mainland. There are now refuge processing centers surrounding Rome.

Americans following the crisis are probably unaware that there are bureaucratic and legal distinctions that govern different categories of people who seek to enter another country without correct documentation. A migrant is anyone who is moving from his own country to another. They have no special legal status and must comply with entry requirements of the country they are attempting to enter. They can be denied entry and deported back to their country of origin. For that reason, many economic migrants destroy their identity and travel documents so that they can claim that they come from a country that is a war zone, which potentially makes them a refugee.

A refugee is person who can demonstrate that has departed his or her country to escape war or persecution. The United Nations Refugee Agency administers the 1951 Refugee Convention, which defines as a refugee someone who “owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country.” Signatories to the Convention, which includes all Western European countries and the U.S., cannot turn away refugees while their status is being investigated. Syrians, for example, are clearly legitimate refugees as are some Iraqis and Yemenis, but other migrants claiming something as difficult to demonstrate as political persecution, for example, can be and are challenged.

Upon arrival, refugees are frequently required to register and are given temporary United Nations identification documents that the host country issues and accepts as valid. Many avoid registering when they land in Greece or Italy because the actually want to be documented in Germany or Scandinavia, where they expect to find a more generous social benefit system and eventually work. By law they cannot be sent back to their home countries and can apply for asylum after their status has been confirmed. Refugees cannot work legally while they are awaiting resolution of their cases and actual asylum policies differ from country to country.

Given all of the uproar about a tidal wave of immigrants, I had arrived in Rome expecting to see the tourist areas overrun with Syrians begging in the streets like I had observed in Istanbul last summer, but it was not so. To be sure, there were a lot of illegal immigrants highly visible, attracted by lax entry procedures and law enforcement in Italy. Bangladeshis who enter the country on forged documents or are “trafficked” across the border have taken over the role of street vendors and workers in market stalls in Rome and also in Venice. Many of the itinerant sellers of stolen and/or knock off Gucci or Prada bags and shoes are now from Senegal. Nearly all are technically illegal.

According to the Roman and also the Venetian police, street crime has skyrocketed but most of it comes from the traditional players the gypsies, who live in camps outside the capital and on the mainland near Venice, and who can be seen moving through the tourist crowds in places like Piazza Navona and Piazza San Marco. The truly nasty crime involving violence, often linked to drugs and prostitution, is dominated by Eastern Europeans, most particularly Albanians and Kosovars.

So where are the refugees? Italian politicians and security officials note that though Italy is a relatively prosperous country, it has high unemployment and budget deficits making its ability to support and give jobs to tens of thousands of refugees non-existent. This creates a dilemma as the Italian government is legally obligated to deport no one who might be a legitimate refugee. So the solution is to let them pass through the country and go to northern Europe where there is work and more in the way of social services resources. Rather than register the new arrivals, the police sometimes take them to the train station or bus terminal and give them a ticket to Germany or France. Greece is behaving likewise as are several of the Balkan states. France, Switzerland and Austria have responded to the threat by building fences and increasing security along their borders but Germany is still relatively open if one can get to it. For Greeks and Italians their short term problem will hopefully become someone else’s long term problem.

Which is not to say that many Italians do not perceive that they are under siege from what they regard as alien cultures. Thousands of Chinese visitors are now highly visible, moving together in large groups just as the Japanese did in the 1970s and 1980s. They come on top of a very visible and growing number of Russians in the tourist centers. The Russians blend in reasonably well, but the Chinese are rather more exotic. In Venice my wife and I watched flotillas of gondolas going by loaded with Chinese tourists, 90% of whom were not looking at the Grand Canal at all but were rather using those abominable selfie-sticks to take pictures of themselves against the backdrop of the Venetian palazzi. It was as if demonstrating to those back at home that one was in Italy was the actual objective of the trip.

Local Venetians also complained that that Chinese investment companies, intent on creating a new Silk Road into Europe, were buying up properties all over the city and generally turning them into tourist junk shops selling Chinese produced souvenirs. If you buy a carnival mask or glassware in Venice the chances are it will be plastic or cheap molded glass, reportedly putting local skilled artisans who work with papier mache and Murano crystal out of work. It is indisputable that in many parts of Venice the cobblers, butchers and small shopkeepers who supported the 88,000 surviving Venetians have disappeared to be replaced by purveyors of tourist dreck, accelerating the city’s economic transformation to Disneyland on the Adriatic. In a June election, a conservative anti-immigrant Mayor was elected, though his solution to the city’s economic malaise appears to be to allow more ecologically damaging cruise ships to visit and bring in still more tourists.

There are a number of lessons to take home from what is happening in Italy. First, the European currency union plus the elimination of internal borders are misguided bits of policy that are finally bearing bitter fruit. Europe’s fundamental lack of genuine cohesion has meant that it is politically unable to deal as a unit with the problem caused by mass migration, which has opened up Pandora’s box in other ways. Rather than creating one homogeneous Europe, monetary integration has instead produced permanent winners and losers, damaging the countries that traditionally had weaker or developing economies, including Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain, by eliminating their ability to adjust their currencies to meet financial crises. It has also created what amounts to blowback directed against the stronger countries by enabling the export of unwanted migrants by the poorer states that are able to game the system, helping to feed the spread of the current refugee crisis. The original vision of the European Community was to have countries linked by free trade and a common culture but retaining their own national identity, currencies and immigration policies. It was abandoned to produce something like unification, which has not and never will work.

And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives. They are unlikely to ever want to go back to things as they were and will demand that their own countries become more like what they are experiencing in the West. That is surely a good thing for the rest of the world and it is all accomplished without the United States having to invade anyone to bring it about.

 
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  1. Macilrae says:

    The Russians blend in reasonably well, but the Chinese are rather more exotic.

    Although a new prosperity reigns in China, it’s probably important to note that the first people who are able to take advantage of this and indulge in foreign travel are a particular class – they are the low-mid level bureaucrats (much detested by most Chinese) whose salaries could never permit such travel but who, through the deployment of their ‘under table money’, can enjoy quite luxurious holidays abroad. As a class, it’s easy to see why most Chinese dislike them: they are loud, demanding, rude and with some unpleasant personal habits to further endear them to their hosts. So it’s important to see these people for what they are and not to assume that all Chinese are like this.

    In fact, I believe this may also apply to the expatriate Russians we encounter. I know, for example, that in North America during the 1970-80s we had a big influx of Russian refugees, the majority of whom were Jewish: they claimed persecution or, as with the family of Sakharov, inadequate medical care in Russia. In those days people assumed that the culture displayed by this group was typically Russian and even within the Jewish community they were disliked because they were seen as lazy and unusually dishonest.

    Finally it’s important to realize that many immigrants who manage to escape; to pay the huge fees demanded by the traffickers; are able to do so because they are specially advantaged in their native country. Decidedly we do not get the best those countries have to offer. Far from being heroes as they are often portrayed, the young males and particularly the Africans are mainly out for themselves and have abandoned their women, children and elderly family members (who probably helped raise the money). Yes, they will of course say that they want work so they can send money home – or that they will bring their family out later and perhaps they mean it at the time but good luck with that.

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    • Replies: @Esteban
    When will we realize that Europeans and only Europeans fit in Europe?

    Chinese junk sellers are NOT Europeans. They should not be allowed to clutter up traditional Italian cities with worthless junk. Who is allowing this and why?

    What can we do about it?
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  2. Ben_C says:

    Phil,

    I think it’s clear by now the real ‘solution’ is more so-called “democracy” exportation:

    With all its virtues and glories…

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  3. I did the political refugee thing in Italy in the 80s. Registered at the refugee camp in Latina and everything. It was actually pretty nice compared to living in a Communist country and I remember that time fondly. Their policy back then was pretty similar – move people on to countries that would take them, though back then that was mostly US, Canada and Australia.

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  4. “I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives. They are unlikely to ever want to go back to things as they were and will demand that their own countries become more like what they are experiencing in the West.”

    Do you think the Chinese will want to see groups of young black males in every Chinese city and town centre?

    “According to the Roman and also the Venetian police, street crime has skyrocketed but most of it comes from the traditional players the gypsies”

    We were in Venice in August, and there was an African beggar outside the local supermarket every day except our last day, when we saw the police there, talking to an old woman who appeared to have had her bag stolen. I agree though that most of the many Africans in Venice are ‘honestly’ employed selling fake handbags, while Bangla guys sell the ubiquitous selfie stick. We saw the police confiscate a huge pile of fake bags and arrest some sellers, but the guys were back with more bags the same day.

    We toured north-east Italy, and I’m glad to have seen it before it goes down the tubes.

    (was in Iceland last year, and saw bus-loads of Chinese tourists there, too)

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    Do you think the Chinese tourists will want to see groups of young black males in every Chinese city and town centre?
     
    Some will just to get a good hearty laugh at seeing the Europe they were in economic awe of destroying itself. What a scene when the Chinese return home and show others their photos and videos of black as midnight Africans in the Italian historic tourist places. Then even more laughing!
    Of course NE Asians are too intelligent, nationalistic and proud for this immigrant-refugee-asylee BS. We all know the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans simply don't allow them entry. No millions of Muslims and Africans knocking at their doors.
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  5. And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives.

    Phil – it’s no longer 1982.

    Overall though a good column. How many street vendors and street beggars does Europe need? This is an appalling disaster.

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    I agree.

    Russia has not been communist for 25 years and China is communist in name only. The United States, on the other hand...
    , @Realist
    "Phil – it’s no longer 1982."

    Excellent.
    , @J Yan

    How many street vendors and street beggars does Europe need?
     
    Enough to motivate Chinese and Russian tourists to demand that Xi and Putin keep migrants out of China and Russia.
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  6. The “solution”, in the United States as in Europe, is to jail these so-called “migrants” (let’s call them invaders, OK?) and deport them back to where they came from. If it is necessary to abolish “refugee” status to do this, so be it. No country is under any obligation to take in strangers unless it really wants to. Any person or business offering them employment, food, lodging, transportation should face total confiscation of all assets. That should just about solve this “problem”. The West can’t solve the problems of the rest of the world by allowing itself to be overrun. Anybody who disagrees or supports a “compassionate” solution is a damn fool.

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    • Agree: Che Guava
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  7. Jim says:

    Europe is doomed.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Europe is doomed.

     

    As much by their rose-colored glasses view of the immigrants as the immigrants themselves.
    , @robt
    That was the plan.
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  8. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Moral Hubris will destroy the West.

    The main obligation of a nation is to survive, defend, and preserve, not to take care of the ‘world’ filled with idiots who destroy their own nations.

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    • Replies: @RobinG

    "...who destroy their own nations."
     
    This is rich, Prissy. (FYI there's nothing 'moral' about sowing chaos. See comment #25.)

    And why, now, drop your attack on the Jews? Looks like Jr. and the Rifleman have your number. Plus nastiness and disinfo for its own sake, or to make you feel superior.
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  9. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jim
    Europe is doomed.

    Europe is doomed.

    As much by their rose-colored glasses view of the immigrants as the immigrants themselves.

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  10. @The Anti-Gnostic

    And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives.
     
    Phil - it's no longer 1982.

    Overall though a good column. How many street vendors and street beggars does Europe need? This is an appalling disaster.

    I agree.

    Russia has not been communist for 25 years and China is communist in name only. The United States, on the other hand…

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    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @OutWest
    The United States would seem to be more fascist than communist. Both are species of the genius socialist, but communism takes title to at least productive property while fascism leaves the property in private hands but exercises control over the property.
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  11. Kat Grey says:

    Viewing the Italian immigrant crisis as a misty-eyed tourist is not quite the same thing as having to live with the daily spectacle of young African men begging from motorists, loitering outside the four-star hotels (where they are housed and fed at taxpayer’s expense) and wandering around bus and train stations beer bottles in hand. Pensioners have been murdered inside their own homes, women gang-raped. Italian girls have had to alter their lifestyle with many afraid to go out at night unless as part of a large group. I have been insulted by these African seekers-of-a-better life so much so that I fear they are actually in search of a better wife.

    The sooner they are deported the easier most of us will sleep at night. And us women can take back the streets.

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    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    "Misty eyed tourist?" I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic "immigrants" who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.
    , @Osman
    How can they be both "begging" in the streets and "housed in four-star hotels"? Do u even hear yourself? The reality being a tad less generous:
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-refugees-the-plight-of-african-migrants-living-in-apulia-italy-a-906950.html

    And where is your evidence that young africans are "raping Italian girls" and "killing"? And don`t give one sensationalist incident and try to generalize it.

    Maybe you were "insulted" by these Africans with some justification considering the appalling views you exhibit here. Self-awareness my dear you know the one without sin cast the first stone and all that.
    , @Wayne earl
    Agreed. Which is why I moved out of Oakland last month.

    As a child, my father was career Army, in 1980, I started elementary school in Ft. Hood., then off to Bremerhaven for 2nd - 5th. German vs. American culture at that time was interesting - they were both so similar yet so very distinct that it was quite apparent that all stereotypes about each culture were true.

    Wonde what my experience would be like as a child in Bremerhaven today (yes, I know the base is now closed, don't let facts get in the way of my internet pontificating)
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  12. @Kat Grey
    Viewing the Italian immigrant crisis as a misty-eyed tourist is not quite the same thing as having to live with the daily spectacle of young African men begging from motorists, loitering outside the four-star hotels (where they are housed and fed at taxpayer's expense) and wandering around bus and train stations beer bottles in hand. Pensioners have been murdered inside their own homes, women gang-raped. Italian girls have had to alter their lifestyle with many afraid to go out at night unless as part of a large group. I have been insulted by these African seekers-of-a-better life so much so that I fear they are actually in search of a better wife.

    The sooner they are deported the easier most of us will sleep at night. And us women can take back the streets.

    “Misty eyed tourist?” I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic “immigrants” who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

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    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    joe webb says:

    more limp-wristedness from the liberal. Always with one eye on the future of his job worthiness.

    Fence straddler…only now it is a fence built with razor wire…so, the end result confirms the absence of balls in the first place.


    And yet Philip Giraldi says:

    I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic “immigrants” who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    The verdict:

    Philip Giraldi is no "liberal," but there is a very distinct possibility that joe webb is a "jerk."
    , @Kiza
    The main purpose of articles should be to provide insight to the readers. I was not impressed by this article because it does address the real issue. You write better articles for the Amcon Magazine.

    The whole "the-Europe-has-been-swamped" debate comes down to one simple point, which you do not cover adequately: the economic migrants and the war refugees have been entering Europe since WW2, what caused this recent, sudden hundred-fold increase in the numbers?

    This issue is the crux of the political clash within NATO countries.

    The usual brainwashing propaganda of the Western countries comes in two flavors, for a politically segmented propaganda consuming market:
    A) moderate propaganda - most of the people coming are economic migrants (without an explanation what sudden economic situation caused such sudden influx)
    B) extreme propaganda - these people are refugees but are the refugees running away from Assad's crimes and the Russian aerial attacks.

    Opposite to this is the reality, the reality that you do not analyse in this article. The people swamping Europe are the sum of all Western military interventions in the Middle East and North Africa. Once a critical mass of displaced people was reached and once Turkey saw a chance to make money from this human misery it participated in creating, the flood was unleashed onto Europe.

    I have no sympathy for any EU and non-EU country getting swamped by the refugees because they caused this misery by going along with the USrael's pillaging (stealing) and depopulation plans for the region. You, Giraldi, have been a leading critic of such plans before, but you fail to see its connection with the current flood.

    The military inteventionist politicians in Western countries are attempting to turn people's anger at being swamped into own advancement. It is virtually all the same politicians or parties which caused trouble in the first place: Somalia, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on. The Western military interventions caused refugees as an economic externality and now they play table tennis with them (building walls and throwing refugees back over the walls). Now, this is what needs to be written about.

    , @Biff
    How do you say “Right on” in Italian?
    , @Osman
    What`s wrong with "economic migrants"? Seeing that Italian colonialism and the most recent NATO interventions being a major factor in the troubles in Eritrea, Somalia, and Libya were many of these recent "economic migrants" were eeking out a living before NATO intervention drove them into the sea, I would consider this a perfect case of "blowback" (you know that old CIA habit) so Italy and Europe in general are getting their just deserts. I just wish more would reach the shores of those foreign occupied lands in North America and Oceania.If you don`t like being swamped with refugees and "economic migrants" stop meddling in the internal affairs of other countries and mind your own business. Not just military intervention but also your economic and financial institutions like your IMF/World Bank, NGO industry and multinational corporations that loot these countries and constrain their development. You know the golden rule. But I think you are smart enough to know all that. You`re just being coy and maybe a little deceitful here. Lastly, I`m assuming with your surname that you are of Italian-American heritage and therefore a descendant of "economic migrants". So why do you condemn others who seek to improve their living conditions by migrating? And don`t give me that "they came illegally" and my parents immigrated "legally" nonsense. Your "illegal" western invasions have been destabilizing these places for several centuries and still going yet you expect people to follow your arbitrary notions of "legality". What`s good for the goose is good for the gander if your Italian forebears could migrate for better life then so will Africans, Arabs, Afghans, and others illegal or otherwise.
    , @Kat Grey
    Please accept my apologies
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  13. joe webb says:

    more limp-wristedness from the liberal. Always with one eye on the future of his job worthiness.

    Fence straddler…only now it is a fence built with razor wire…so, the end result confirms the absence of balls in the first place.

    The MSM even states that about 80% of the invaders are men in their 20s and 30s. Did not see that statistic mentioned.

    Joe Webb

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  14. Realist says:

    “And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives. They are unlikely to ever want to go back to things as they were and will demand that their own countries become more like what they are experiencing in the West.”

    That is propaganda bullshit right out of the American power elite.

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  15. Realist says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives.
     
    Phil - it's no longer 1982.

    Overall though a good column. How many street vendors and street beggars does Europe need? This is an appalling disaster.

    “Phil – it’s no longer 1982.”

    Excellent.

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  16. robt says:
    @Jim
    Europe is doomed.

    That was the plan.

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  17. Clyde says:

    Great first hand report!! Thanks! Beats what I am going to get from the NY Times and The Economist from an on the ground reporter.

    Many of the itinerant sellers of stolen and/or knock off Gucci or Prada bags and shoes are now from Senegal. Nearly all are technically illegal.
    I saw these Senegalese, lots of them, selling bogus watches in NYC 22 years ago. They have found a niche. I wonder if the guys I saw 22 years ago have gotten legal somehow and have legally brought lots family members in? No wonder we are getting swamped by the third world with its inexhaustible supply of the impoverished and not so impoverished who also yearn to scam their way into Europe and the USA.

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  18. Clyde says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives. They are unlikely to ever want to go back to things as they were and will demand that their own countries become more like what they are experiencing in the West."

    Do you think the Chinese will want to see groups of young black males in every Chinese city and town centre?

    "According to the Roman and also the Venetian police, street crime has skyrocketed but most of it comes from the traditional players the gypsies"

    We were in Venice in August, and there was an African beggar outside the local supermarket every day except our last day, when we saw the police there, talking to an old woman who appeared to have had her bag stolen. I agree though that most of the many Africans in Venice are 'honestly' employed selling fake handbags, while Bangla guys sell the ubiquitous selfie stick. We saw the police confiscate a huge pile of fake bags and arrest some sellers, but the guys were back with more bags the same day.

    We toured north-east Italy, and I'm glad to have seen it before it goes down the tubes.

    (was in Iceland last year, and saw bus-loads of Chinese tourists there, too)

    Do you think the Chinese tourists will want to see groups of young black males in every Chinese city and town centre?

    Some will just to get a good hearty laugh at seeing the Europe they were in economic awe of destroying itself. What a scene when the Chinese return home and show others their photos and videos of black as midnight Africans in the Italian historic tourist places. Then even more laughing!
    Of course NE Asians are too intelligent, nationalistic and proud for this immigrant-refugee-asylee BS. We all know the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans simply don’t allow them entry. No millions of Muslims and Africans knocking at their doors.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    You are wrong there are thousands of students, workers, and businessmen from the Middle East and Africa in China a bit less so in South Korea and Japan. The reason so many African and Middle Eastern refugees and immigrants go to Europe instead of the Far East is quite obvious: geographic proximity, colonial legacies (speaking European languages etc...) and generally Far Easterners have minded their own business with regards to Africa and the Middle East only engaging in mutually beneficial commerce. Can`t say the same for Europeans and their violent invasions of these regions historically (and still going on to this day). Do I have to educate you people again that most of the people coming to Europe are coming from:

    A. Countries under Western military attack or occupation (Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Mali) the vast majority are from these countries. So the West is directly responsible for their plight.

    B. Countries that had been depopulated during the Atlantic Slave Trade and thoroughly pillaged and looted during the years of direct colonial rule and continuing to this day under neo-colonial meddling and domination. That is actually most of the global south and even parts of the European periphery like the Balkans.

    So yes you reap what you sow my friend. Get used to more people "swamping". As some commenters have suggested maybe you should restart your "gas chambers and ovens" LOL. Then finally the rest of humanity won`t have to endure your sanctimonious lecturing on the superiority of "western values", "western democracy", "human rights" and what not.

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  19. OutWest says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    I agree.

    Russia has not been communist for 25 years and China is communist in name only. The United States, on the other hand...

    The United States would seem to be more fascist than communist. Both are species of the genius socialist, but communism takes title to at least productive property while fascism leaves the property in private hands but exercises control over the property.

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  20. J Yan says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives.
     
    Phil - it's no longer 1982.

    Overall though a good column. How many street vendors and street beggars does Europe need? This is an appalling disaster.

    How many street vendors and street beggars does Europe need?

    Enough to motivate Chinese and Russian tourists to demand that Xi and Putin keep migrants out of China and Russia.

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  21. @Philip Giraldi
    "Misty eyed tourist?" I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic "immigrants" who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    joe webb says:

    more limp-wristedness from the liberal. Always with one eye on the future of his job worthiness.

    Fence straddler…only now it is a fence built with razor wire…so, the end result confirms the absence of balls in the first place.

    And yet Philip Giraldi says:

    I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic “immigrants” who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    The verdict:

    Philip Giraldi is no “liberal,” but there is a very distinct possibility that joe webb is a “jerk.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    so, the Gerald comment about his deportation disposition is not in the article, but in an afterthought ( # 12). thus, he has protected himself with regard to republishing his article.

    Then, the "And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives. They are unlikely to ever want to go back to things as they were and will demand that their own countries become more like what they are experiencing in the West." is total naivete only found in a liberal.

    The chinks will never be like us, or, maybe the 'what they are experiencing in the West' is simply what a banker friend of mine reports about the chinks...that their number one comment is how great it is that everything works. They don't comment about political freedoms, etc. They are totally one-dimensional..money. That is what I hear all the time from Silicon Va. folks who do business with them. That, and rhino horn and shark fins, and god knows what else for their dinky dicks.

    Lowest animal functions, sex and money. They are a scourge, and there's over a billion of them, an inexhaustable supply of bodies, first fro Mao's armies, and now for colonization of Africa and god knows where. The chinks are ants...totally collectivistic...rice growers, not wheat growers.

    Yeah, I am a jerk for pointing out how essentially liberal Girardi is. His call for deportation is a feint, inasmuch as the narrative energy of his writing , like liberals in general, lacks any fire.
    We need fire to rouse ourselves to do what needs to be done, like the Swedish Democrats apparently who are probably the ones setting building on fire to prevent their use for migrants.

    The liberal draws the line at any violence or incendiary acts and words. The liberals have gotten us into this swamp of the black lagoon with its swamp critters coming at us, and they all sound, emotionally....like Girardi: "O , but they really should be returned to where they came from" with the next door liberal saying O we can't do that, and Girardi then shuts up....that is the liberal Come let us Reason Together..

    Come, let us Fight for Mother or better, Father Europe. Fight...and kill the Enemy. That kind of talk is just taboo for a liberal. No fighting , no guns, etc. Girardi I bet owns no guns. He lets the cops/soldiers do the killing if it comes to that. His hands are Clean, and doubtless soft.

    And he will cry for the Children. Boo Hoo.
    Lots of boobs here on this list.
    Joe Webb
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  22. Avery says:

    {Enough to motivate Chinese and Russian tourists to demand that Xi and Putin keep migrants out of China and Russia.}

    Don’t know about China, but Russia has its own migration issues from former USSR republics.
    Many citizens of _stans migrate to Russia looking for work.
    Also as part of EEU, citizens of member states have the right go and work in other member states.

    (not all former SSRs are EEU members)

    https://www.rt.com/in-motion/310117-ramadan-massive-celebrations-moscow/

    Yep: that drone vid is of Moscow, believe or not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    If Russians don`t like Central Asians then why are Russians in the Central Asian "stans"? To ask the question is to answer it.
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  23. annamaria says:

    meanwhile, in Vienna:
    “Russia remains firm on its position that fighting terrorism should be conducted in accordance with the solid basis of international law, whether we are talking about military interventions from air or ground operations, these need to be conducted in agreement with the government or with the UN Security Council…. In other words, if a country, like the US, decides to conduct military operations in Syria illegally, (which it is) then they do so at their own risk. Russia is going to continue to aggressively implement its battle plan whether US Special Forces put themselves in harms way or not.”
    The author summarized the DC aspirations as follows: “…Washington’s plan to create a safe zone, splinter Syria into smaller statelets and create a permanent haven for Islamic extremists.” – A sure plan to create more refugees seeking safe haven in Europe.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/03/kerrys-debacle-in-vienna/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    It is amazing how the Internet has changed the propaganda formula. Anyone with even basic Internet capability to go to a few non-government controlled websites can inform himself/herself of the real issues.

    It is obvious that the main purpose of the US sending special forces illegally into Syria was to serve as human shields protecting USraeli terrorist assets in this country against Russian bombardment. I am really glad to read your post that Russia will ignore the new human shields and keep hitting the USraeli terrorists in Syria. If the US special forces get hit by the Russian bombardment, they will become the famous, USrael-beloved term: collateral damage.
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  24. Renoman says:

    It seems pretty straight ahead to me. 2/3 of the Worlds population lives on $2.00 a day, they all want to come to the West. If we let them we will all soon be living on $5.00 a day. Call me Hitler if you like but it’s true. Send em back, get the guns out if you have to but turn that tide or we will all be doomed.

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    • Replies: @Hugo
    Meh. Hitler dindu nuffin
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  25. Kiza says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    "Misty eyed tourist?" I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic "immigrants" who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    The main purpose of articles should be to provide insight to the readers. I was not impressed by this article because it does address the real issue. You write better articles for the Amcon Magazine.

    The whole “the-Europe-has-been-swamped” debate comes down to one simple point, which you do not cover adequately: the economic migrants and the war refugees have been entering Europe since WW2, what caused this recent, sudden hundred-fold increase in the numbers?

    This issue is the crux of the political clash within NATO countries.

    The usual brainwashing propaganda of the Western countries comes in two flavors, for a politically segmented propaganda consuming market:
    A) moderate propaganda – most of the people coming are economic migrants (without an explanation what sudden economic situation caused such sudden influx)
    B) extreme propaganda – these people are refugees but are the refugees running away from Assad’s crimes and the Russian aerial attacks.

    Opposite to this is the reality, the reality that you do not analyse in this article. The people swamping Europe are the sum of all Western military interventions in the Middle East and North Africa. Once a critical mass of displaced people was reached and once Turkey saw a chance to make money from this human misery it participated in creating, the flood was unleashed onto Europe.

    I have no sympathy for any EU and non-EU country getting swamped by the refugees because they caused this misery by going along with the USrael’s pillaging (stealing) and depopulation plans for the region. You, Giraldi, have been a leading critic of such plans before, but you fail to see its connection with the current flood.

    The military inteventionist politicians in Western countries are attempting to turn people’s anger at being swamped into own advancement. It is virtually all the same politicians or parties which caused trouble in the first place: Somalia, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on. The Western military interventions caused refugees as an economic externality and now they play table tennis with them (building walls and throwing refugees back over the walls). Now, this is what needs to be written about.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Amen! Finally some sanity. It is simply a case of chickens coming home to roost. They are here because you are and have been going over there for CENTURIES causing mayhem. I thought Giraldi was more thoughtful than that but I guess I was wrong
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  26. Hugo says:
    @Renoman
    It seems pretty straight ahead to me. 2/3 of the Worlds population lives on $2.00 a day, they all want to come to the West. If we let them we will all soon be living on $5.00 a day. Call me Hitler if you like but it's true. Send em back, get the guns out if you have to but turn that tide or we will all be doomed.

    Meh. Hitler dindu nuffin

    Read More
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  27. Kiza says:
    @annamaria
    meanwhile, in Vienna:
    “Russia remains firm on its position that fighting terrorism should be conducted in accordance with the solid basis of international law, whether we are talking about military interventions from air or ground operations, these need to be conducted in agreement with the government or with the UN Security Council.... In other words, if a country, like the US, decides to conduct military operations in Syria illegally, (which it is) then they do so at their own risk. Russia is going to continue to aggressively implement its battle plan whether US Special Forces put themselves in harms way or not."
    The author summarized the DC aspirations as follows: "...Washington’s plan to create a safe zone, splinter Syria into smaller statelets and create a permanent haven for Islamic extremists." - A sure plan to create more refugees seeking safe haven in Europe.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/03/kerrys-debacle-in-vienna/

    It is amazing how the Internet has changed the propaganda formula. Anyone with even basic Internet capability to go to a few non-government controlled websites can inform himself/herself of the real issues.

    It is obvious that the main purpose of the US sending special forces illegally into Syria was to serve as human shields protecting USraeli terrorist assets in this country against Russian bombardment. I am really glad to read your post that Russia will ignore the new human shields and keep hitting the USraeli terrorists in Syria. If the US special forces get hit by the Russian bombardment, they will become the famous, USrael-beloved term: collateral damage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Sorry for commenting somewhat off-topic, but the Syria situation is related to the refugees in Europe.

    The latest news from Syria is that in addition to sending special forces as human shields to protect terrorists from Russian bombardment, the US is also deploying to Incirlik airbase in Turkey, apparently, a dozen F15 dog-fighter jets to shoot-down Russian planes if they hit the said US human shields. Each F15 carries eight air-to-air missiles.

    This is how military interventions escalate. Now Putin has to send Russian special forces to prevent the imposition of "Humanitarian" Safe Heavens for the US jihadi mercenaires, firstly in Northern Syria and then along the border with Israel and Jordan. It would be easy to imagine the West dumping many of the refugees from Europe into these Safe Heavens to mix civilians and the jihadis and thus protect jihadis from Russian bombardment after their guerrilla incursions into the SAA held territory. This was a successful US strategy in other places, for example in Bosnian Srebrenica.

    Things do not look good at all.

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  28. RobinG says:
    @Priss Factor
    Moral Hubris will destroy the West.

    The main obligation of a nation is to survive, defend, and preserve, not to take care of the 'world' filled with idiots who destroy their own nations.

    “…who destroy their own nations.”

    This is rich, Prissy. (FYI there’s nothing ‘moral’ about sowing chaos. See comment #25.)

    And why, now, drop your attack on the Jews? Looks like Jr. and the Rifleman have your number. Plus nastiness and disinfo for its own sake, or to make you feel superior.

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  29. I was on business three weeks ago which took me through Slovenia, Austria, Italy (from Trieste to Milan), Switzerland, and Germany. I’ll be back in Italy in a little over two weeks.

    The wonderful thing about Italians is that they simply don’t give a s**t about notions like assimilation of 3rd worlders despite the utterances of some politicians and cultural figures, unlike in the Anglosphere/Sweden where such notions have strong public support.

    Driving through some corporate parks to the southeast of Milan, one can’t help but notice African hookers by the side of the road in miniskirts, spaced equidistantly, each with a campfire to keep them warm.

    As many have stated, Italy is letting these latest migrants go to their destinations, just like Croatia (and Slovenia as well as Austria) have been doing.

    The Visegrad Four plus Slovenia, Croatia, the former DDR and Bavaria are all saying “NO!” to these migrants and are holding firm. We are seeing a political-cultural fissure opening up between these states/regions (with the Italians onside) against the Northwest.

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  30. Biff says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    "Misty eyed tourist?" I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic "immigrants" who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    How do you say “Right on” in Italian?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    ha ragione
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  31. @Biff
    How do you say “Right on” in Italian?

    ha ragione

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  32. joe webb says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe
    joe webb says:

    more limp-wristedness from the liberal. Always with one eye on the future of his job worthiness.

    Fence straddler…only now it is a fence built with razor wire…so, the end result confirms the absence of balls in the first place.


    And yet Philip Giraldi says:

    I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic “immigrants” who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    The verdict:

    Philip Giraldi is no "liberal," but there is a very distinct possibility that joe webb is a "jerk."

    so, the Gerald comment about his deportation disposition is not in the article, but in an afterthought ( # 12). thus, he has protected himself with regard to republishing his article.

    Then, the “And I like seeing all the Chinese and Russians in Italy. They have escaped from their communist prisons and have now seen how the other half lives. They are unlikely to ever want to go back to things as they were and will demand that their own countries become more like what they are experiencing in the West.” is total naivete only found in a liberal.

    The chinks will never be like us, or, maybe the ‘what they are experiencing in the West’ is simply what a banker friend of mine reports about the chinks…that their number one comment is how great it is that everything works. They don’t comment about political freedoms, etc. They are totally one-dimensional..money. That is what I hear all the time from Silicon Va. folks who do business with them. That, and rhino horn and shark fins, and god knows what else for their dinky dicks.

    Lowest animal functions, sex and money. They are a scourge, and there’s over a billion of them, an inexhaustable supply of bodies, first fro Mao’s armies, and now for colonization of Africa and god knows where. The chinks are ants…totally collectivistic…rice growers, not wheat growers.

    Yeah, I am a jerk for pointing out how essentially liberal Girardi is. His call for deportation is a feint, inasmuch as the narrative energy of his writing , like liberals in general, lacks any fire.
    We need fire to rouse ourselves to do what needs to be done, like the Swedish Democrats apparently who are probably the ones setting building on fire to prevent their use for migrants.

    The liberal draws the line at any violence or incendiary acts and words. The liberals have gotten us into this swamp of the black lagoon with its swamp critters coming at us, and they all sound, emotionally….like Girardi: “O , but they really should be returned to where they came from” with the next door liberal saying O we can’t do that, and Girardi then shuts up….that is the liberal Come let us Reason Together..

    Come, let us Fight for Mother or better, Father Europe. Fight…and kill the Enemy. That kind of talk is just taboo for a liberal. No fighting , no guns, etc. Girardi I bet owns no guns. He lets the cops/soldiers do the killing if it comes to that. His hands are Clean, and doubtless soft.

    And he will cry for the Children. Boo Hoo.
    Lots of boobs here on this list.
    Joe Webb

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  33. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    Viewing the Italian immigrant crisis as a misty-eyed tourist is not quite the same thing as having to live with the daily spectacle of young African men begging from motorists, loitering outside the four-star hotels (where they are housed and fed at taxpayer's expense) and wandering around bus and train stations beer bottles in hand. Pensioners have been murdered inside their own homes, women gang-raped. Italian girls have had to alter their lifestyle with many afraid to go out at night unless as part of a large group. I have been insulted by these African seekers-of-a-better life so much so that I fear they are actually in search of a better wife.

    The sooner they are deported the easier most of us will sleep at night. And us women can take back the streets.

    How can they be both “begging” in the streets and “housed in four-star hotels”? Do u even hear yourself? The reality being a tad less generous:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-refugees-the-plight-of-african-migrants-living-in-apulia-italy-a-906950.html

    And where is your evidence that young africans are “raping Italian girls” and “killing”? And don`t give one sensationalist incident and try to generalize it.

    Maybe you were “insulted” by these Africans with some justification considering the appalling views you exhibit here. Self-awareness my dear you know the one without sin cast the first stone and all that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    Where is my evidence? The Italian news is a good place to start. And since when does one's political stance justify loutish men making sexual suggestions to a woman minding her own business? Ah but if it was your wifey, mamma or nubile daughter you would likely begin the usual male chauvinist huffing and puffing at the first whiff of testosterone wafting in the direction of "his women".

    And why can't migrants housed in four star hotels (we're paying for them, remember)take to the streets and beg? Ever hear of the vice known as greed or does that just affect white people? They want more money, honey. Connect the lines.

    Finally keep religious scripture out of this. The threat we face is physical not spiritual.
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  34. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    The main purpose of articles should be to provide insight to the readers. I was not impressed by this article because it does address the real issue. You write better articles for the Amcon Magazine.

    The whole "the-Europe-has-been-swamped" debate comes down to one simple point, which you do not cover adequately: the economic migrants and the war refugees have been entering Europe since WW2, what caused this recent, sudden hundred-fold increase in the numbers?

    This issue is the crux of the political clash within NATO countries.

    The usual brainwashing propaganda of the Western countries comes in two flavors, for a politically segmented propaganda consuming market:
    A) moderate propaganda - most of the people coming are economic migrants (without an explanation what sudden economic situation caused such sudden influx)
    B) extreme propaganda - these people are refugees but are the refugees running away from Assad's crimes and the Russian aerial attacks.

    Opposite to this is the reality, the reality that you do not analyse in this article. The people swamping Europe are the sum of all Western military interventions in the Middle East and North Africa. Once a critical mass of displaced people was reached and once Turkey saw a chance to make money from this human misery it participated in creating, the flood was unleashed onto Europe.

    I have no sympathy for any EU and non-EU country getting swamped by the refugees because they caused this misery by going along with the USrael's pillaging (stealing) and depopulation plans for the region. You, Giraldi, have been a leading critic of such plans before, but you fail to see its connection with the current flood.

    The military inteventionist politicians in Western countries are attempting to turn people's anger at being swamped into own advancement. It is virtually all the same politicians or parties which caused trouble in the first place: Somalia, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on. The Western military interventions caused refugees as an economic externality and now they play table tennis with them (building walls and throwing refugees back over the walls). Now, this is what needs to be written about.

    Amen! Finally some sanity. It is simply a case of chickens coming home to roost. They are here because you are and have been going over there for CENTURIES causing mayhem. I thought Giraldi was more thoughtful than that but I guess I was wrong

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  35. Osman says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    "Misty eyed tourist?" I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic "immigrants" who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    What`s wrong with “economic migrants”? Seeing that Italian colonialism and the most recent NATO interventions being a major factor in the troubles in Eritrea, Somalia, and Libya were many of these recent “economic migrants” were eeking out a living before NATO intervention drove them into the sea, I would consider this a perfect case of “blowback” (you know that old CIA habit) so Italy and Europe in general are getting their just deserts. I just wish more would reach the shores of those foreign occupied lands in North America and Oceania.If you don`t like being swamped with refugees and “economic migrants” stop meddling in the internal affairs of other countries and mind your own business. Not just military intervention but also your economic and financial institutions like your IMF/World Bank, NGO industry and multinational corporations that loot these countries and constrain their development. You know the golden rule. But I think you are smart enough to know all that. You`re just being coy and maybe a little deceitful here. Lastly, I`m assuming with your surname that you are of Italian-American heritage and therefore a descendant of “economic migrants”. So why do you condemn others who seek to improve their living conditions by migrating? And don`t give me that “they came illegally” and my parents immigrated “legally” nonsense. Your “illegal” western invasions have been destabilizing these places for several centuries and still going yet you expect people to follow your arbitrary notions of “legality”. What`s good for the goose is good for the gander if your Italian forebears could migrate for better life then so will Africans, Arabs, Afghans, and others illegal or otherwise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hugo
    Nah, none of what you wrote is sensical. And you missed 1 key point. Italians who were economic immigrants actually contributed to their host economies, Senegalese, Somalians , etc. do not.
    , @This Is Our Home
    Like Tartuffe, immigrants attempt to freeload and steal via guilt.

    European man that is your flaw, you feel guilt too easily, and those, like Osman, will use it to disarm, dispossess and, ultimately, destroy you.
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  36. Kiza says:
    @Kiza
    It is amazing how the Internet has changed the propaganda formula. Anyone with even basic Internet capability to go to a few non-government controlled websites can inform himself/herself of the real issues.

    It is obvious that the main purpose of the US sending special forces illegally into Syria was to serve as human shields protecting USraeli terrorist assets in this country against Russian bombardment. I am really glad to read your post that Russia will ignore the new human shields and keep hitting the USraeli terrorists in Syria. If the US special forces get hit by the Russian bombardment, they will become the famous, USrael-beloved term: collateral damage.

    Sorry for commenting somewhat off-topic, but the Syria situation is related to the refugees in Europe.

    The latest news from Syria is that in addition to sending special forces as human shields to protect terrorists from Russian bombardment, the US is also deploying to Incirlik airbase in Turkey, apparently, a dozen F15 dog-fighter jets to shoot-down Russian planes if they hit the said US human shields. Each F15 carries eight air-to-air missiles.

    This is how military interventions escalate. Now Putin has to send Russian special forces to prevent the imposition of “Humanitarian” Safe Heavens for the US jihadi mercenaires, firstly in Northern Syria and then along the border with Israel and Jordan. It would be easy to imagine the West dumping many of the refugees from Europe into these Safe Heavens to mix civilians and the jihadis and thus protect jihadis from Russian bombardment after their guerrilla incursions into the SAA held territory. This was a successful US strategy in other places, for example in Bosnian Srebrenica.

    Things do not look good at all.

    Read More
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  37. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {Enough to motivate Chinese and Russian tourists to demand that Xi and Putin keep migrants out of China and Russia.}

    Don't know about China, but Russia has its own migration issues from former USSR republics.
    Many citizens of _stans migrate to Russia looking for work.
    Also as part of EEU, citizens of member states have the right go and work in other member states.

    (not all former SSRs are EEU members)

    https://www.rt.com/in-motion/310117-ramadan-massive-celebrations-moscow/

    Yep: that drone vid is of Moscow, believe or not.

    If Russians don`t like Central Asians then why are Russians in the Central Asian “stans”? To ask the question is to answer it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    [Osman says: November 4, 2015 at 7:58 am GMT @Avery
    If Russians don`t like Central Asians then why are Russians in the Central Asian “stans”? To ask the question is to answer it.]

    I didn't ask a question in my post, but I will try to answer your question, since you seem a little confused: I am here to help.

    ANSWER: Actually there are relatively few Russians in _stans, except one _stan.

    1.Tajikistan:
    Ethnic groups:
    Tajik 84.3%, Uzbek 13.8% (includes Lakai, Kongrat, Katagan, Barlos, Yuz), other 2% (includes Kyrgyz, Russian, Turkmen, Tatar, Arab)
    Literacy: 99.8%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $2,700 (2014 est.)

    2.Uzbekistan
    Ethnic groups:
    Uzbek 80%, Russian 5.5%, Tajik 5%, Kazakh 3%, Karakalpak 2.5%, Tatar 1.5%, other 2.5% (1996 est.)
    Literacy: 99.6%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $5,600 (2014 est.)


    3.Turkmenistan:
    Ethnic groups:
    Turkmen 85%, Uzbek 5%, Russian 4%, other 6%.
    Literacy: 99.7%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $14,200 (2014 est.)


    4.Kyrgyzstan
    Ethnic groups:
    Kyrgyz 70.9%, Uzbek 14.3%, Russian 7.7%, Dungan 1.1%, other 5.9% (includes Uyghur, Tajik, Turk, Kazakh, Tatar, Ukrainian, Korean, German)
    Literacy: 99.5%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $3,400 (2014 est.)

    5.Kazakhstan
    Ethnic groups:
    Kazakh (Qazaq) 63.1%, Russian 23.7%, Uzbek 2.9%, Ukrainian 2.1%, Uighur 1.4%, Tatar 1.3%, German 1.1%, other 4.4%
    Literacy: 99.6%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $24,000 (2014 est.)

    As you can see from the stats above, the Soviet/Russian presence in those _stans, after Bolsheviks came to power in Russia in 1917, and then spread Sovietization to 14 other SSRs, has been an unmitigated disaster.
    Interestingly, one _stan that has the most ethnic Russian composition, Kazakhstan, has the highest PPP at $24,000.
    Wonder why. Must be those evil Russians.

    For comparison as to how Soviet/Russian presence has negatively affected the former SSR _stans, let us compare them to Afghanistan, just South of Kazakhstan. Afghanistan was under communist rule for a time, but was never one of the SSR _stans. During the regressive communist rule, the PDPA government reformed the education system; education was stressed for both sexes, and widespread literacy programmes were set up. By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs.

    After CIA helped medieval Taliban regain control of the country, totally free of any Soviet/Russian presence, the country reached unprecedented levels of advancement in human potential.

    Here you go:
    Afghanistan
    Ethnic groups: Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, other (includes smaller numbers of Baloch, Turkmen, Nuristani, Pamiri, Arab, Gujar, Brahui, Qizilbash, Aimaq, Pashai, and Kyrghyz)
    Literacy: 38.2% WOW.
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $1,900 (2014 est.) WOW.

    Question for you Osman:

    If Russians are so bad, why are migrants from former SSR _stans going to Moscow/Russia to look for work, instead of one of those Islamic paradises not touched by the dirty hands of Soviets/Russians: for example Saudi Arabia.
    After all Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf sheikhdoms, have more money than they know what to do with ? Why not provide employment for their fellow Muslims.
    Can you please tell the readers of UNZ.com the reason ?
    Thank you.
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  38. Osman says:
    @Clyde

    Do you think the Chinese tourists will want to see groups of young black males in every Chinese city and town centre?
     
    Some will just to get a good hearty laugh at seeing the Europe they were in economic awe of destroying itself. What a scene when the Chinese return home and show others their photos and videos of black as midnight Africans in the Italian historic tourist places. Then even more laughing!
    Of course NE Asians are too intelligent, nationalistic and proud for this immigrant-refugee-asylee BS. We all know the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans simply don't allow them entry. No millions of Muslims and Africans knocking at their doors.

    You are wrong there are thousands of students, workers, and businessmen from the Middle East and Africa in China a bit less so in South Korea and Japan. The reason so many African and Middle Eastern refugees and immigrants go to Europe instead of the Far East is quite obvious: geographic proximity, colonial legacies (speaking European languages etc…) and generally Far Easterners have minded their own business with regards to Africa and the Middle East only engaging in mutually beneficial commerce. Can`t say the same for Europeans and their violent invasions of these regions historically (and still going on to this day). Do I have to educate you people again that most of the people coming to Europe are coming from:

    A. Countries under Western military attack or occupation (Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Mali) the vast majority are from these countries. So the West is directly responsible for their plight.

    B. Countries that had been depopulated during the Atlantic Slave Trade and thoroughly pillaged and looted during the years of direct colonial rule and continuing to this day under neo-colonial meddling and domination. That is actually most of the global south and even parts of the European periphery like the Balkans.

    So yes you reap what you sow my friend. Get used to more people “swamping”. As some commenters have suggested maybe you should restart your “gas chambers and ovens” LOL. Then finally the rest of humanity won`t have to endure your sanctimonious lecturing on the superiority of “western values”, “western democracy”, “human rights” and what not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    You are hallucinating. Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world. All they did was make the Arabs wealthy by buying their oil at market prices. Yet they are being invaded by Muslims and Africans. Though they did nothing to deserve any blowback that you half wittedly gloat about like a good lefty.

    Bottom line is third worlders and their stupid enablers (you) will always invent justifications to invade (via immigration) comfortable Western nations. Heck, I would try it too if I was stuck in Eritrea or Somalia. Their job is to invade Western nations and the job of any sane prosperous nation is to repel them. With serious militarized border fences and navies etc etc
    , @German_reader
    "That is actually most of the global south and even parts of the European periphery like the Balkans. "

    The Balkans? Are the Turks now honorary members of the evil, white Westerners who have oppressed poor people of color for centuries-club????????
    Really, why are you posting your idiotic anti-white, anti-Western screeds here? Given the political orientation of most of the commenters around here, do you think anybody here cares about the demented ravings of some ungrateful Somali immigrant (if that's what you really are)? We don't care about your point of view and we don't want your approval, we wan't you to f**k off back to Africa.

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  39. Early in 2008 Ashton Carter partnered with Dennis Ross, “Israel’s lawyer,” to produce a paper for the Center for a New American Security suggesting a framework for the Iran deal that at least influenced Kerry’s (and Wendy Sherman, Israel’s paralegal/social worker) negotiations. http://www.cnas.org/sites/default/files/publications-pdf/MillerParthemoreCampbell_Iran%20Assessing%20US%20Strategy_Sept08.pdf

    When Chuck Hagel stepped down, Michele Flournoy, principal at CNAS, got right of first refusal for his position. When she refused, Carter got the nod.

    Carter has taken microphones all over the map to tell the world that “Russia is making a mistake,” and that “Russia will fail” in its mission in Syria.

    Carter has also been attempting to create alliances for his war against Russia in Syria. Here’s his approach to Italy –

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?328626-1/defense-secretary-ashton-carter-new-conference


    (Maybe Italy can attack Cyprus or Greece and draw off US strength to get Mussoli– er, Italy out of a mess.)

    Read More
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  40. LondonBob says:

    Greece and Italy have done nothing but encourage the flow of immigrants, not acceptable at all. Just trying to dump the problem on Northern Europe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    So you want the mediterranean "wops" and "greaseballs" to do your dirty work? Amazing to see the layers of racism at work here. LOL
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  41. Osman says:

    Amazing these people think they have the god given right to invade and settle all of God`s green earth but the minute a few refugees (including Mexican and Central Americans fleeing decades of destabilization and looting of their countries by the US) come to their shores (refugees they helped to create in the first place btw) then all hell breaks loose and they start baring their collective teeth with calls for violence and in many cases actual violence against refugees even women and children http://sandiegofreepress.org/2014/07/ugly-americans-block-migrant-buses-in-murrieta/ and http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151009/1028256961/massive-violence-against-refugees-germany.html. They complain about being “swamped” but the reality is in comparison to countries like Pakistan, Iran, Kenya, Lebanon, Turkey, the refugee numbers in Europe is a drop in the bucket. And these countries are quite poor in comparison to Europe, North America, and Australia. Most importantly these countries did not cause the conflicts or economic dislocation that generated these refugees (Turkey and Pakistan maybe an exception here)however Western foreign and economic policy is most definitely the root cause of this crisis. Yet you don`t here all the whining and moaning or God forbid calls for violence or expulsion against refugees that you here in the West. This is nothing but pure hypocrisy and shamelessness on the part of some Europeans and their settler colonialist descendants in North America and Australia. But I wouldn`t expect much better from the descendants of slavers and imperialist warmongers. Basic human decency and compassion is too much to expect from such people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    You're from the least noble of the criminal professions, you are a charlatan and a con man.

    Without the West the rest of the world would be even worse off, even more savage and even more laughably incompetent than you guys are now. You've been given miracles and more than you could ever achieve and yet you demand more...indeed now you demand our destruction and that we help with it...how desperately you demand it, for you know full well that your life and livelihood relies on our goodwill.

    While it is a shame to be in the position of the tricked how much more shameful and pitiable it is to be the beggar thief fraud. Pathetic.
    , @Kat Grey
    Osman, I shall ask you one question and I want you to think very clearly and carefully before you answer. Who started the African slave trade? I require just one word, not a valange of lefty slabbering.
    , @Lupa
    No European today thinks they have a "god given right" to invade any country. If we did, we would, or maybe not decolonize them in the first place.
    And how is a country like Poland "directly responsible" for what's essentially US foreign policy?

    The only racism here is your limitless contempt for all white people, and your sweeping generalizations using your dumbed-down version of history.
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  42. Osman says:
    @LondonBob
    Greece and Italy have done nothing but encourage the flow of immigrants, not acceptable at all. Just trying to dump the problem on Northern Europe.

    So you want the mediterranean “wops” and “greaseballs” to do your dirty work? Amazing to see the layers of racism at work here. LOL

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Silly leftist-- Your race card has expired. It is not accepted here. Might be accepted at your neighborhood bodega for some banana chips but not here.
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  43. Clyde says:
    @Osman
    You are wrong there are thousands of students, workers, and businessmen from the Middle East and Africa in China a bit less so in South Korea and Japan. The reason so many African and Middle Eastern refugees and immigrants go to Europe instead of the Far East is quite obvious: geographic proximity, colonial legacies (speaking European languages etc...) and generally Far Easterners have minded their own business with regards to Africa and the Middle East only engaging in mutually beneficial commerce. Can`t say the same for Europeans and their violent invasions of these regions historically (and still going on to this day). Do I have to educate you people again that most of the people coming to Europe are coming from:

    A. Countries under Western military attack or occupation (Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Mali) the vast majority are from these countries. So the West is directly responsible for their plight.

    B. Countries that had been depopulated during the Atlantic Slave Trade and thoroughly pillaged and looted during the years of direct colonial rule and continuing to this day under neo-colonial meddling and domination. That is actually most of the global south and even parts of the European periphery like the Balkans.

    So yes you reap what you sow my friend. Get used to more people "swamping". As some commenters have suggested maybe you should restart your "gas chambers and ovens" LOL. Then finally the rest of humanity won`t have to endure your sanctimonious lecturing on the superiority of "western values", "western democracy", "human rights" and what not.

    You are hallucinating. Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world. All they did was make the Arabs wealthy by buying their oil at market prices. Yet they are being invaded by Muslims and Africans. Though they did nothing to deserve any blowback that you half wittedly gloat about like a good lefty.

    Bottom line is third worlders and their stupid enablers (you) will always invent justifications to invade (via immigration) comfortable Western nations. Heck, I would try it too if I was stuck in Eritrea or Somalia. Their job is to invade Western nations and the job of any sane prosperous nation is to repel them. With serious militarized border fences and navies etc etc

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "Germany had no colonies" Seriously? Is that your level of historical knowledge? What do u call Namibia, Togo, and Tanganika? The Germans even perfected their genocide machine against the Hereros in Namibia long before the holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

    Sweden and Germany are both members of NATO and joined the invasion of Libya (many of the Africans were living and working in Libya and would have stayed there hadn`t your countries invaded and destroyed that country)and NATO still occupies Afghanistan. So before u spout some nonsense about your "white innocence" and call me a "lefty" check your bloody facts and stop making a fool of yourself. "Invasion" LOL! Don`t u just love this psychological projection? After European racist imperialists like Clyde invaded and looted the entire planet (and as I have shown still invade and occupy other countries) they complain about a few miserable refugees and call it an "invasion". Yeah go ahead and start using helicopter gunships on those refugees while lecturing the rest of us on "Western values and liberal democracy". What a spectacle that would be LOL! Otherwise Clyde you are a coward of the first degree shitting his pants at the thought of refugees moving to his precious "fortress Europe" when he has no problem invading the same countries these refugees come from. Deal with it Clyde. Every action has consequences.

    , @annamaria
    "Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world"

    Correct. These countries have been paying for the sins of the most Christian Mr. Codpiece & others, like the very Christian Condi Rice and even more pious Tony Blair the Catholic. Why there was no waves of desperate refugees from Libya, before this prosperous state had been bombed out to the smithereens and made into a playground for liver-eaters by the US/EU geniuses? And who are those planners that had created the blueprint for the ongoing bloodshed in the Middle East? - Yes, the US neocons of Zionist persuasion. Here comes the Yinon plan, followed by the Wolfowitz Doctrine and PNAC' obscenities, and "there is no daylight between the US and Israel interests." The same big mouths that cannot stop taking about "sanctity of life" and that all evils are due to women making abortions, the same scoundrels have no problems with sending the most advanced and deadly weaponry to test on the civilian populations in the Middle East and Africa (and now in Ukraine) because, as Bush the lesser told us, "God told him so." One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.
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  44. Hugo says:
    @Osman
    What`s wrong with "economic migrants"? Seeing that Italian colonialism and the most recent NATO interventions being a major factor in the troubles in Eritrea, Somalia, and Libya were many of these recent "economic migrants" were eeking out a living before NATO intervention drove them into the sea, I would consider this a perfect case of "blowback" (you know that old CIA habit) so Italy and Europe in general are getting their just deserts. I just wish more would reach the shores of those foreign occupied lands in North America and Oceania.If you don`t like being swamped with refugees and "economic migrants" stop meddling in the internal affairs of other countries and mind your own business. Not just military intervention but also your economic and financial institutions like your IMF/World Bank, NGO industry and multinational corporations that loot these countries and constrain their development. You know the golden rule. But I think you are smart enough to know all that. You`re just being coy and maybe a little deceitful here. Lastly, I`m assuming with your surname that you are of Italian-American heritage and therefore a descendant of "economic migrants". So why do you condemn others who seek to improve their living conditions by migrating? And don`t give me that "they came illegally" and my parents immigrated "legally" nonsense. Your "illegal" western invasions have been destabilizing these places for several centuries and still going yet you expect people to follow your arbitrary notions of "legality". What`s good for the goose is good for the gander if your Italian forebears could migrate for better life then so will Africans, Arabs, Afghans, and others illegal or otherwise.

    Nah, none of what you wrote is sensical. And you missed 1 key point. Italians who were economic immigrants actually contributed to their host economies, Senegalese, Somalians , etc. do not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    And Italian immigrants were skilled artisans unlike the Senegalese and Somalians...unless there are secret cities in their homelands comparable to Rome, Venice, Florence, etc.
    , @Osman
    I can assure u Italians contributed nothing but looted greatly from Somalia, Eritrea, and Libya. As for Senegal, that prize goes to your equally nasty French cousins.
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  45. Clyde says:
    @Osman
    So you want the mediterranean "wops" and "greaseballs" to do your dirty work? Amazing to see the layers of racism at work here. LOL

    Silly leftist– Your race card has expired. It is not accepted here. Might be accepted at your neighborhood bodega for some banana chips but not here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    What`s with all this "leftist" crap? I never claimed to be a leftist. Me thinks you are projecting your biases again. Relax and take a breath LOL!
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  46. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    What`s wrong with "economic migrants"? Seeing that Italian colonialism and the most recent NATO interventions being a major factor in the troubles in Eritrea, Somalia, and Libya were many of these recent "economic migrants" were eeking out a living before NATO intervention drove them into the sea, I would consider this a perfect case of "blowback" (you know that old CIA habit) so Italy and Europe in general are getting their just deserts. I just wish more would reach the shores of those foreign occupied lands in North America and Oceania.If you don`t like being swamped with refugees and "economic migrants" stop meddling in the internal affairs of other countries and mind your own business. Not just military intervention but also your economic and financial institutions like your IMF/World Bank, NGO industry and multinational corporations that loot these countries and constrain their development. You know the golden rule. But I think you are smart enough to know all that. You`re just being coy and maybe a little deceitful here. Lastly, I`m assuming with your surname that you are of Italian-American heritage and therefore a descendant of "economic migrants". So why do you condemn others who seek to improve their living conditions by migrating? And don`t give me that "they came illegally" and my parents immigrated "legally" nonsense. Your "illegal" western invasions have been destabilizing these places for several centuries and still going yet you expect people to follow your arbitrary notions of "legality". What`s good for the goose is good for the gander if your Italian forebears could migrate for better life then so will Africans, Arabs, Afghans, and others illegal or otherwise.

    Like Tartuffe, immigrants attempt to freeload and steal via guilt.

    European man that is your flaw, you feel guilt too easily, and those, like Osman, will use it to disarm, dispossess and, ultimately, destroy you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Only the guilty feel guilty I can`t make u feel that way about yourself unless you are a complete idiot but then that would contradict your "superior white brain" theory so if Europeans feel guilty then they must have done something to make them feel that way. Stop projecting and take responsibility for once (at least for your own feelings of guilt) and stop blaming it on others. Relax I have neither the strength, ablility, nor the wish or desire to disarm, dispossess or destroy you. I just would like it if you took your so called "goodwill" your military, navies, bases, your planes and drones violating our airspaces and killing our people, and of course your parasitical financial institutions, your lying media, useless NGOs, thieving corporations, fishing trawlers, etc... and just went away. And then only then can u send back those poor refugees and immigrants. How about a trade? I guarantee we will be just fine without your phony "goodwill". Btw it is beyond ironic that you don`t realize that genuine goodwilled people don`t express their hate towards destitute refugees many of them women and children. But then again racists are not known for self-awareness. LOL!
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  47. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    Amazing these people think they have the god given right to invade and settle all of God`s green earth but the minute a few refugees (including Mexican and Central Americans fleeing decades of destabilization and looting of their countries by the US) come to their shores (refugees they helped to create in the first place btw) then all hell breaks loose and they start baring their collective teeth with calls for violence and in many cases actual violence against refugees even women and children http://sandiegofreepress.org/2014/07/ugly-americans-block-migrant-buses-in-murrieta/ and http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151009/1028256961/massive-violence-against-refugees-germany.html. They complain about being “swamped” but the reality is in comparison to countries like Pakistan, Iran, Kenya, Lebanon, Turkey, the refugee numbers in Europe is a drop in the bucket. And these countries are quite poor in comparison to Europe, North America, and Australia. Most importantly these countries did not cause the conflicts or economic dislocation that generated these refugees (Turkey and Pakistan maybe an exception here)however Western foreign and economic policy is most definitely the root cause of this crisis. Yet you don`t here all the whining and moaning or God forbid calls for violence or expulsion against refugees that you here in the West. This is nothing but pure hypocrisy and shamelessness on the part of some Europeans and their settler colonialist descendants in North America and Australia. But I wouldn`t expect much better from the descendants of slavers and imperialist warmongers. Basic human decency and compassion is too much to expect from such people.

    You’re from the least noble of the criminal professions, you are a charlatan and a con man.

    Without the West the rest of the world would be even worse off, even more savage and even more laughably incompetent than you guys are now. You’ve been given miracles and more than you could ever achieve and yet you demand more…indeed now you demand our destruction and that we help with it…how desperately you demand it, for you know full well that your life and livelihood relies on our goodwill.

    While it is a shame to be in the position of the tricked how much more shameful and pitiable it is to be the beggar thief fraud. Pathetic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "You’re from the least noble of the criminal professions, you are a charlatan and a con man.

    Without the West the rest of the world would be even worse off, even more savage and even more laughably incompetent than you guys are now. You’ve been given miracles and more than you could ever achieve and yet you demand more…indeed now you demand our destruction and that we help with it…how desperately you demand it, for you know full well that your life and livelihood relies on our goodwill."

    I dunno about u guys but does anyone detect any "goodwill" in that statement by Robert Rediger? I`ll let u be the judge. LOL!
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  48. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    How can they be both "begging" in the streets and "housed in four-star hotels"? Do u even hear yourself? The reality being a tad less generous:
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-refugees-the-plight-of-african-migrants-living-in-apulia-italy-a-906950.html

    And where is your evidence that young africans are "raping Italian girls" and "killing"? And don`t give one sensationalist incident and try to generalize it.

    Maybe you were "insulted" by these Africans with some justification considering the appalling views you exhibit here. Self-awareness my dear you know the one without sin cast the first stone and all that.

    Where is my evidence? The Italian news is a good place to start. And since when does one’s political stance justify loutish men making sexual suggestions to a woman minding her own business? Ah but if it was your wifey, mamma or nubile daughter you would likely begin the usual male chauvinist huffing and puffing at the first whiff of testosterone wafting in the direction of “his women”.

    And why can’t migrants housed in four star hotels (we’re paying for them, remember)take to the streets and beg? Ever hear of the vice known as greed or does that just affect white people? They want more money, honey. Connect the lines.

    Finally keep religious scripture out of this. The threat we face is physical not spiritual.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG

    ...loutish men making sexual suggestions to a woman minding her own business?
     
    What's happened to Italian men? This used to be de rigueur.
    , @Osman
    Links please? I don`t doubt an isolated incident of rape or murder might happen but I find it next to implausible that African refugees are on some rape and murder spree in Italy. I call bullshit. Prove me wrong with multiple links showing crime statistics. How do we know you were "just minding your business"? Should we just take your word that they made "sexual suggestions" towards you? People with your sort of views aren`t known for their credibility or truthfulness. I just gave you a link that showed African refugees sleeping rough in Italy and you are still claiming this "four star hotel" nonsense. However, I don`t doubt that some refugees would resort to begging. Destitute and desperate refugees tend to do that. Stop being a drama queen, no one is threatening you physically and u know that very well, even if they wanted to they couldn`t since they are a destitute and highly vulnerable minority. Just admit it you just don`t like to see the sight of these people in your precious "Europe". No fear just hate. At least be honest about it like the others here.
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  49. Kat Grey says:
    @Hugo
    Nah, none of what you wrote is sensical. And you missed 1 key point. Italians who were economic immigrants actually contributed to their host economies, Senegalese, Somalians , etc. do not.

    And Italian immigrants were skilled artisans unlike the Senegalese and Somalians…unless there are secret cities in their homelands comparable to Rome, Venice, Florence, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    This just shows how ignorant you are, Senegal has one of the world`s richest artisanal traditions https://www.unido.org/fileadmin/user_media/Services/PSD/Clusters_and_Networks/Senegal_Artisan_Directory.pdf

    As for Somalis, they are not known for their artisanal works but are quite resourceful entrepreneurs and merchants. As many in the Minnesota Twin Cities area have come to know http://www.cura.umn.edu/publications/catalog/reporter-40-1-2-5

    , @SolontoCroesus
    My Italian grandfather and uncles dug ditches, and my mother sewed shirtwaists, rather than fight for Mussolini in Ethiopia.

    If they had had a trade (rather than their village farm in Italy) it's not certain they would have had the ability to pursue it in the climate that greeted Italians in the USA in the early 20th century.

    On the other hand, Chicago grew and became wealthy on the streets that my Italian immigrant family helped to build.
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  50. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    Amazing these people think they have the god given right to invade and settle all of God`s green earth but the minute a few refugees (including Mexican and Central Americans fleeing decades of destabilization and looting of their countries by the US) come to their shores (refugees they helped to create in the first place btw) then all hell breaks loose and they start baring their collective teeth with calls for violence and in many cases actual violence against refugees even women and children http://sandiegofreepress.org/2014/07/ugly-americans-block-migrant-buses-in-murrieta/ and http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151009/1028256961/massive-violence-against-refugees-germany.html. They complain about being “swamped” but the reality is in comparison to countries like Pakistan, Iran, Kenya, Lebanon, Turkey, the refugee numbers in Europe is a drop in the bucket. And these countries are quite poor in comparison to Europe, North America, and Australia. Most importantly these countries did not cause the conflicts or economic dislocation that generated these refugees (Turkey and Pakistan maybe an exception here)however Western foreign and economic policy is most definitely the root cause of this crisis. Yet you don`t here all the whining and moaning or God forbid calls for violence or expulsion against refugees that you here in the West. This is nothing but pure hypocrisy and shamelessness on the part of some Europeans and their settler colonialist descendants in North America and Australia. But I wouldn`t expect much better from the descendants of slavers and imperialist warmongers. Basic human decency and compassion is too much to expect from such people.

    Osman, I shall ask you one question and I want you to think very clearly and carefully before you answer. Who started the African slave trade? I require just one word, not a valange of lefty slabbering.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    So you want engage in a discussion in which you have already predetermined conditions "lefty blabbering"?. Echo chamber anyone? LOL! By African Slave Trade if u mean the TransAtlantic triangular slave trade (the biggest and most brutal in history btw) it was most definitely West Europeans who started it http://www.unesco.org/new/en/culture/themes/dialogue/the-slave-route/transatlantic-slave-trade/
    If u mean the trans-saharan slave trade then that is an altogether different matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_trade
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  51. Lupa says:
    @Osman
    Amazing these people think they have the god given right to invade and settle all of God`s green earth but the minute a few refugees (including Mexican and Central Americans fleeing decades of destabilization and looting of their countries by the US) come to their shores (refugees they helped to create in the first place btw) then all hell breaks loose and they start baring their collective teeth with calls for violence and in many cases actual violence against refugees even women and children http://sandiegofreepress.org/2014/07/ugly-americans-block-migrant-buses-in-murrieta/ and http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151009/1028256961/massive-violence-against-refugees-germany.html. They complain about being “swamped” but the reality is in comparison to countries like Pakistan, Iran, Kenya, Lebanon, Turkey, the refugee numbers in Europe is a drop in the bucket. And these countries are quite poor in comparison to Europe, North America, and Australia. Most importantly these countries did not cause the conflicts or economic dislocation that generated these refugees (Turkey and Pakistan maybe an exception here)however Western foreign and economic policy is most definitely the root cause of this crisis. Yet you don`t here all the whining and moaning or God forbid calls for violence or expulsion against refugees that you here in the West. This is nothing but pure hypocrisy and shamelessness on the part of some Europeans and their settler colonialist descendants in North America and Australia. But I wouldn`t expect much better from the descendants of slavers and imperialist warmongers. Basic human decency and compassion is too much to expect from such people.

    No European today thinks they have a “god given right” to invade any country. If we did, we would, or maybe not decolonize them in the first place.
    And how is a country like Poland “directly responsible” for what’s essentially US foreign policy?

    The only racism here is your limitless contempt for all white people, and your sweeping generalizations using your dumbed-down version of history.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Last time I remember Poland was a member of NATO and even joined the invasion of Iraq as a member of the so called "coalition of the willing" so yes u reap what u sow. I don`t have "contempt for all white people" just the warmongers and hypocrites among them. Actually I`m quite fond of Putin and Russia. They mind their own business in general and don`t meddle in the affairs of other nations. I wish I could say the same for the so called "civilized West"
    , @Kiza
    "And how is a country like Poland “directly responsible” for what’s essentially US foreign policy?"

    When one beautiful sunny day Poland manages to crawl out of the US ass, then maybe we could talk about subjects such as "direct responsibility". Till then, Poland will stink too much to talk about, due to its prime location inside the US bowel just behind the Baltic states.

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  52. Kat Grey says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    "Misty eyed tourist?" I worked as an intelligence officer in Italy for four years, have a Ph.D. in Italian history, speak Italian and revisit the country regularly. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that I have any sympathy for the economic "immigrants" who have entered the country illegally. I would deport every single one of them, likewise in the U.S.

    Please accept my apologies

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  53. Osman says:
    @Clyde
    You are hallucinating. Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world. All they did was make the Arabs wealthy by buying their oil at market prices. Yet they are being invaded by Muslims and Africans. Though they did nothing to deserve any blowback that you half wittedly gloat about like a good lefty.

    Bottom line is third worlders and their stupid enablers (you) will always invent justifications to invade (via immigration) comfortable Western nations. Heck, I would try it too if I was stuck in Eritrea or Somalia. Their job is to invade Western nations and the job of any sane prosperous nation is to repel them. With serious militarized border fences and navies etc etc

    “Germany had no colonies” Seriously? Is that your level of historical knowledge? What do u call Namibia, Togo, and Tanganika? The Germans even perfected their genocide machine against the Hereros in Namibia long before the holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

    Sweden and Germany are both members of NATO and joined the invasion of Libya (many of the Africans were living and working in Libya and would have stayed there hadn`t your countries invaded and destroyed that country)and NATO still occupies Afghanistan. So before u spout some nonsense about your “white innocence” and call me a “lefty” check your bloody facts and stop making a fool of yourself. “Invasion” LOL! Don`t u just love this psychological projection? After European racist imperialists like Clyde invaded and looted the entire planet (and as I have shown still invade and occupy other countries) they complain about a few miserable refugees and call it an “invasion”. Yeah go ahead and start using helicopter gunships on those refugees while lecturing the rest of us on “Western values and liberal democracy”. What a spectacle that would be LOL! Otherwise Clyde you are a coward of the first degree shitting his pants at the thought of refugees moving to his precious “fortress Europe” when he has no problem invading the same countries these refugees come from. Deal with it Clyde. Every action has consequences.

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    • Replies: @Demon for Truth
    Osman, you could have saved yourself a lot of words -- although it appears you love running on and on -- if you had confined your comment to this: "All our problems are because of you Westerners and now we're going to pay you back by overrunning you."
    , @Kiza
    Osman, you know much more about this than the brigade of your critics. Germany never had colonies!? Which tree do such monkeys come from? If one makes a statement, one better makes sure that it is at least something historically ambiguous, not some blatant stupidity such as "Germany never had colonies". And you did not even mention the German shenanigans in South America.

    Also, absolutely correct about the Sweden and Germany being involved in the destruction of Libya, by providing services to the NATO bombers.

    Ah, all those innocent Europeans of noble intentions: they rape your country and call it a white-men's burden. They still try to do the same even in the 21st century, when lies and manipulations get exposed quickly on the Internet.

    BTW, I am white myself.

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  54. Osman says:
    @Hugo
    Nah, none of what you wrote is sensical. And you missed 1 key point. Italians who were economic immigrants actually contributed to their host economies, Senegalese, Somalians , etc. do not.

    I can assure u Italians contributed nothing but looted greatly from Somalia, Eritrea, and Libya. As for Senegal, that prize goes to your equally nasty French cousins.

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  55. Osman says:
    @Clyde
    Silly leftist-- Your race card has expired. It is not accepted here. Might be accepted at your neighborhood bodega for some banana chips but not here.

    What`s with all this “leftist” crap? I never claimed to be a leftist. Me thinks you are projecting your biases again. Relax and take a breath LOL!

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  56. RobinG says:
    @Kat Grey
    Where is my evidence? The Italian news is a good place to start. And since when does one's political stance justify loutish men making sexual suggestions to a woman minding her own business? Ah but if it was your wifey, mamma or nubile daughter you would likely begin the usual male chauvinist huffing and puffing at the first whiff of testosterone wafting in the direction of "his women".

    And why can't migrants housed in four star hotels (we're paying for them, remember)take to the streets and beg? Ever hear of the vice known as greed or does that just affect white people? They want more money, honey. Connect the lines.

    Finally keep religious scripture out of this. The threat we face is physical not spiritual.

    …loutish men making sexual suggestions to a woman minding her own business?

    What’s happened to Italian men? This used to be de rigueur.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Yeah I thought that this might be another case of psychological projection. I`ve come across a lot of that lately at this site. Italian men are notorious for their "loutish" behaviour towards the opposite sex. The level of catcalls and whistles towards women is frowned upon in many parts of the global south including Africa. The Italians even brought that trait with them across the Atlantic just visit Bensonhurst Brooklyn to see for yourself. LOL!
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  57. Osman says:
    @Lupa
    No European today thinks they have a "god given right" to invade any country. If we did, we would, or maybe not decolonize them in the first place.
    And how is a country like Poland "directly responsible" for what's essentially US foreign policy?

    The only racism here is your limitless contempt for all white people, and your sweeping generalizations using your dumbed-down version of history.

    Last time I remember Poland was a member of NATO and even joined the invasion of Iraq as a member of the so called “coalition of the willing” so yes u reap what u sow. I don`t have “contempt for all white people” just the warmongers and hypocrites among them. Actually I`m quite fond of Putin and Russia. They mind their own business in general and don`t meddle in the affairs of other nations. I wish I could say the same for the so called “civilized West”

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  58. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    Osman, I shall ask you one question and I want you to think very clearly and carefully before you answer. Who started the African slave trade? I require just one word, not a valange of lefty slabbering.

    So you want engage in a discussion in which you have already predetermined conditions “lefty blabbering”?. Echo chamber anyone? LOL! By African Slave Trade if u mean the TransAtlantic triangular slave trade (the biggest and most brutal in history btw) it was most definitely West Europeans who started it http://www.unesco.org/new/en/culture/themes/dialogue/the-slave-route/transatlantic-slave-trade/
    If u mean the trans-saharan slave trade then that is an altogether different matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_trade

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  59. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    And Italian immigrants were skilled artisans unlike the Senegalese and Somalians...unless there are secret cities in their homelands comparable to Rome, Venice, Florence, etc.

    This just shows how ignorant you are, Senegal has one of the world`s richest artisanal traditions https://www.unido.org/fileadmin/user_media/Services/PSD/Clusters_and_Networks/Senegal_Artisan_Directory.pdf

    As for Somalis, they are not known for their artisanal works but are quite resourceful entrepreneurs and merchants. As many in the Minnesota Twin Cities area have come to know http://www.cura.umn.edu/publications/catalog/reporter-40-1-2-5

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  60. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    Where is my evidence? The Italian news is a good place to start. And since when does one's political stance justify loutish men making sexual suggestions to a woman minding her own business? Ah but if it was your wifey, mamma or nubile daughter you would likely begin the usual male chauvinist huffing and puffing at the first whiff of testosterone wafting in the direction of "his women".

    And why can't migrants housed in four star hotels (we're paying for them, remember)take to the streets and beg? Ever hear of the vice known as greed or does that just affect white people? They want more money, honey. Connect the lines.

    Finally keep religious scripture out of this. The threat we face is physical not spiritual.

    Links please? I don`t doubt an isolated incident of rape or murder might happen but I find it next to implausible that African refugees are on some rape and murder spree in Italy. I call bullshit. Prove me wrong with multiple links showing crime statistics. How do we know you were “just minding your business”? Should we just take your word that they made “sexual suggestions” towards you? People with your sort of views aren`t known for their credibility or truthfulness. I just gave you a link that showed African refugees sleeping rough in Italy and you are still claiming this “four star hotel” nonsense. However, I don`t doubt that some refugees would resort to begging. Destitute and desperate refugees tend to do that. Stop being a drama queen, no one is threatening you physically and u know that very well, even if they wanted to they couldn`t since they are a destitute and highly vulnerable minority. Just admit it you just don`t like to see the sight of these people in your precious “Europe”. No fear just hate. At least be honest about it like the others here.

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    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    My comments don't need your approval. And I have no intention of posting images taken showing the same enrichers lounging outside four-star hotels and wading through traffic with their palms open and nauseating Cheshire grins. It's not my fault you cannot accept the ugly realities of African migration anywhere-be it to a neighbourhood, city or nation.
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  61. Osman says:
    @RobinG

    ...loutish men making sexual suggestions to a woman minding her own business?
     
    What's happened to Italian men? This used to be de rigueur.

    Yeah I thought that this might be another case of psychological projection. I`ve come across a lot of that lately at this site. Italian men are notorious for their “loutish” behaviour towards the opposite sex. The level of catcalls and whistles towards women is frowned upon in many parts of the global south including Africa. The Italians even brought that trait with them across the Atlantic just visit Bensonhurst Brooklyn to see for yourself. LOL!

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  62. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home
    You're from the least noble of the criminal professions, you are a charlatan and a con man.

    Without the West the rest of the world would be even worse off, even more savage and even more laughably incompetent than you guys are now. You've been given miracles and more than you could ever achieve and yet you demand more...indeed now you demand our destruction and that we help with it...how desperately you demand it, for you know full well that your life and livelihood relies on our goodwill.

    While it is a shame to be in the position of the tricked how much more shameful and pitiable it is to be the beggar thief fraud. Pathetic.

    “You’re from the least noble of the criminal professions, you are a charlatan and a con man.

    Without the West the rest of the world would be even worse off, even more savage and even more laughably incompetent than you guys are now. You’ve been given miracles and more than you could ever achieve and yet you demand more…indeed now you demand our destruction and that we help with it…how desperately you demand it, for you know full well that your life and livelihood relies on our goodwill.”

    I dunno about u guys but does anyone detect any “goodwill” in that statement by Robert Rediger? I`ll let u be the judge. LOL!

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    I dunno about u guys but does anyone detect any “goodwill” in that statement by Robert Rediger? I`ll let u be the judge. LOL!
     
    Asking that you express gratitude for the fact that you and 9 out of 10 of your countrymen are alive is not showing a lack of goodwill it is just showing some standards.
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  63. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Like Tartuffe, immigrants attempt to freeload and steal via guilt.

    European man that is your flaw, you feel guilt too easily, and those, like Osman, will use it to disarm, dispossess and, ultimately, destroy you.

    Only the guilty feel guilty I can`t make u feel that way about yourself unless you are a complete idiot but then that would contradict your “superior white brain” theory so if Europeans feel guilty then they must have done something to make them feel that way. Stop projecting and take responsibility for once (at least for your own feelings of guilt) and stop blaming it on others. Relax I have neither the strength, ablility, nor the wish or desire to disarm, dispossess or destroy you. I just would like it if you took your so called “goodwill” your military, navies, bases, your planes and drones violating our airspaces and killing our people, and of course your parasitical financial institutions, your lying media, useless NGOs, thieving corporations, fishing trawlers, etc… and just went away. And then only then can u send back those poor refugees and immigrants. How about a trade? I guarantee we will be just fine without your phony “goodwill”. Btw it is beyond ironic that you don`t realize that genuine goodwilled people don`t express their hate towards destitute refugees many of them women and children. But then again racists are not known for self-awareness. LOL!

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    • Replies: @RobinG

    useless NGOs
     
    Au contraire, lol, they are useful agents of espionage, propaganda, and sometimes agitprop.
    , @This Is Our Home
    I haven't expressed any hate to refugees. Indeed I can't think of anyone who has. You're conflating your excess young men who are squatting in Europe with refugee women and children.

    Also, let's finish that trade, and you can give back all the trappings of the modern world that we invented and then you can go back to scrabbling around at the Malthusian limit with a total population at about a tenth of what it is now. How you get down to that level I will not tell you, but looking at your murderous history I can guess.

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  64. RobinG says:
    @Osman
    Only the guilty feel guilty I can`t make u feel that way about yourself unless you are a complete idiot but then that would contradict your "superior white brain" theory so if Europeans feel guilty then they must have done something to make them feel that way. Stop projecting and take responsibility for once (at least for your own feelings of guilt) and stop blaming it on others. Relax I have neither the strength, ablility, nor the wish or desire to disarm, dispossess or destroy you. I just would like it if you took your so called "goodwill" your military, navies, bases, your planes and drones violating our airspaces and killing our people, and of course your parasitical financial institutions, your lying media, useless NGOs, thieving corporations, fishing trawlers, etc... and just went away. And then only then can u send back those poor refugees and immigrants. How about a trade? I guarantee we will be just fine without your phony "goodwill". Btw it is beyond ironic that you don`t realize that genuine goodwilled people don`t express their hate towards destitute refugees many of them women and children. But then again racists are not known for self-awareness. LOL!

    useless NGOs

    Au contraire, lol, they are useful agents of espionage, propaganda, and sometimes agitprop.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "Au contraire, lol, they are useful agents of espionage, propaganda, and sometimes agitprop."

    Totally agree.
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  65. @Osman
    You are wrong there are thousands of students, workers, and businessmen from the Middle East and Africa in China a bit less so in South Korea and Japan. The reason so many African and Middle Eastern refugees and immigrants go to Europe instead of the Far East is quite obvious: geographic proximity, colonial legacies (speaking European languages etc...) and generally Far Easterners have minded their own business with regards to Africa and the Middle East only engaging in mutually beneficial commerce. Can`t say the same for Europeans and their violent invasions of these regions historically (and still going on to this day). Do I have to educate you people again that most of the people coming to Europe are coming from:

    A. Countries under Western military attack or occupation (Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Mali) the vast majority are from these countries. So the West is directly responsible for their plight.

    B. Countries that had been depopulated during the Atlantic Slave Trade and thoroughly pillaged and looted during the years of direct colonial rule and continuing to this day under neo-colonial meddling and domination. That is actually most of the global south and even parts of the European periphery like the Balkans.

    So yes you reap what you sow my friend. Get used to more people "swamping". As some commenters have suggested maybe you should restart your "gas chambers and ovens" LOL. Then finally the rest of humanity won`t have to endure your sanctimonious lecturing on the superiority of "western values", "western democracy", "human rights" and what not.

    “That is actually most of the global south and even parts of the European periphery like the Balkans. ”

    The Balkans? Are the Turks now honorary members of the evil, white Westerners who have oppressed poor people of color for centuries-club????????
    Really, why are you posting your idiotic anti-white, anti-Western screeds here? Given the political orientation of most of the commenters around here, do you think anybody here cares about the demented ravings of some ungrateful Somali immigrant (if that’s what you really are)? We don’t care about your point of view and we don’t want your approval, we wan’t you to f**k off back to Africa.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "The Balkans? Are the Turks now honorary members of the evil, white Westerners who have oppressed poor people of color for centuries-club????????"

    When did I say white westerners were "evil"? You guys sure love projecting and putting words in people`s mouths. And yes white westerners have oppressed and continue to oppress great swathes of the world. That is just a fact that you cannot deny. But to answer your question, yes I do think the Turks have been a monstrous imperialist power especially in the balkans and the Levant, but nowadays just a Western lackey client state. As for their whiteness I`ll leave it to you racists to determine if their "white enough" for you. And no I will not fuck off until u fuck off back to Europe. Capiche? As for my gratitude or lack of it I have probably sacrificed more for your sorry ass flags then many of you here. As an ever so grateful "new american" I swiftly enlisted in the military after 911 seeing that it was my co-religionists (btw I am now a proud new follower of agnosticism but that`s a whole other topic) who attacked my beloved adopted country. Boy! Was I naive! Now all I have to show for my troubles is mortar shrapnel and whining little white boys like you telling me to "fuck off back to Africa". But hey in life u live and learn and fyi I no longer live in the West and have no wish to do so. But I do understand those poor souls who do NEED to go there to save themselves from the chaos u have unleashed on the planet.

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  66. Osman, bro, take your Valium!

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  67. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    Only the guilty feel guilty I can`t make u feel that way about yourself unless you are a complete idiot but then that would contradict your "superior white brain" theory so if Europeans feel guilty then they must have done something to make them feel that way. Stop projecting and take responsibility for once (at least for your own feelings of guilt) and stop blaming it on others. Relax I have neither the strength, ablility, nor the wish or desire to disarm, dispossess or destroy you. I just would like it if you took your so called "goodwill" your military, navies, bases, your planes and drones violating our airspaces and killing our people, and of course your parasitical financial institutions, your lying media, useless NGOs, thieving corporations, fishing trawlers, etc... and just went away. And then only then can u send back those poor refugees and immigrants. How about a trade? I guarantee we will be just fine without your phony "goodwill". Btw it is beyond ironic that you don`t realize that genuine goodwilled people don`t express their hate towards destitute refugees many of them women and children. But then again racists are not known for self-awareness. LOL!

    I haven’t expressed any hate to refugees. Indeed I can’t think of anyone who has. You’re conflating your excess young men who are squatting in Europe with refugee women and children.

    Also, let’s finish that trade, and you can give back all the trappings of the modern world that we invented and then you can go back to scrabbling around at the Malthusian limit with a total population at about a tenth of what it is now. How you get down to that level I will not tell you, but looking at your murderous history I can guess.

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  68. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    "You’re from the least noble of the criminal professions, you are a charlatan and a con man.

    Without the West the rest of the world would be even worse off, even more savage and even more laughably incompetent than you guys are now. You’ve been given miracles and more than you could ever achieve and yet you demand more…indeed now you demand our destruction and that we help with it…how desperately you demand it, for you know full well that your life and livelihood relies on our goodwill."

    I dunno about u guys but does anyone detect any "goodwill" in that statement by Robert Rediger? I`ll let u be the judge. LOL!

    I dunno about u guys but does anyone detect any “goodwill” in that statement by Robert Rediger? I`ll let u be the judge. LOL!

    Asking that you express gratitude for the fact that you and 9 out of 10 of your countrymen are alive is not showing a lack of goodwill it is just showing some standards.

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  69. @Kat Grey
    And Italian immigrants were skilled artisans unlike the Senegalese and Somalians...unless there are secret cities in their homelands comparable to Rome, Venice, Florence, etc.

    My Italian grandfather and uncles dug ditches, and my mother sewed shirtwaists, rather than fight for Mussolini in Ethiopia.

    If they had had a trade (rather than their village farm in Italy) it’s not certain they would have had the ability to pursue it in the climate that greeted Italians in the USA in the early 20th century.

    On the other hand, Chicago grew and became wealthy on the streets that my Italian immigrant family helped to build.

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  70. @Osman
    "Germany had no colonies" Seriously? Is that your level of historical knowledge? What do u call Namibia, Togo, and Tanganika? The Germans even perfected their genocide machine against the Hereros in Namibia long before the holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

    Sweden and Germany are both members of NATO and joined the invasion of Libya (many of the Africans were living and working in Libya and would have stayed there hadn`t your countries invaded and destroyed that country)and NATO still occupies Afghanistan. So before u spout some nonsense about your "white innocence" and call me a "lefty" check your bloody facts and stop making a fool of yourself. "Invasion" LOL! Don`t u just love this psychological projection? After European racist imperialists like Clyde invaded and looted the entire planet (and as I have shown still invade and occupy other countries) they complain about a few miserable refugees and call it an "invasion". Yeah go ahead and start using helicopter gunships on those refugees while lecturing the rest of us on "Western values and liberal democracy". What a spectacle that would be LOL! Otherwise Clyde you are a coward of the first degree shitting his pants at the thought of refugees moving to his precious "fortress Europe" when he has no problem invading the same countries these refugees come from. Deal with it Clyde. Every action has consequences.

    Osman, you could have saved yourself a lot of words — although it appears you love running on and on — if you had confined your comment to this: “All our problems are because of you Westerners and now we’re going to pay you back by overrunning you.”

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "Osman, you could have saved yourself a lot of words — although it appears you love running on and on — if you had confined your comment to this: “All our problems are because of you Westerners and now we’re going to pay you back by overrunning you.”

    Again putting words into my mouth. When did I ever say "all our problems are because of you"? What part of blowback for your historical and ongoing imperialist interventions now euphemistically relabelled "western foreign policy" or "humanitarian intervention" do u not understand? Do u have trouble with reading comprehension? Because my argument is pretty straightforward you go mucking around in other countries don`t expect to be untouched by it. It`s quite simple really. I wonder what happened to that legendary "superior" European intellect because this thread is in dire need of it. LOL
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  71. annamaria says:
    @Clyde
    You are hallucinating. Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world. All they did was make the Arabs wealthy by buying their oil at market prices. Yet they are being invaded by Muslims and Africans. Though they did nothing to deserve any blowback that you half wittedly gloat about like a good lefty.

    Bottom line is third worlders and their stupid enablers (you) will always invent justifications to invade (via immigration) comfortable Western nations. Heck, I would try it too if I was stuck in Eritrea or Somalia. Their job is to invade Western nations and the job of any sane prosperous nation is to repel them. With serious militarized border fences and navies etc etc

    “Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world”

    Correct. These countries have been paying for the sins of the most Christian Mr. Codpiece & others, like the very Christian Condi Rice and even more pious Tony Blair the Catholic. Why there was no waves of desperate refugees from Libya, before this prosperous state had been bombed out to the smithereens and made into a playground for liver-eaters by the US/EU geniuses? And who are those planners that had created the blueprint for the ongoing bloodshed in the Middle East? – Yes, the US neocons of Zionist persuasion. Here comes the Yinon plan, followed by the Wolfowitz Doctrine and PNAC’ obscenities, and “there is no daylight between the US and Israel interests.” The same big mouths that cannot stop taking about “sanctity of life” and that all evils are due to women making abortions, the same scoundrels have no problems with sending the most advanced and deadly weaponry to test on the civilian populations in the Middle East and Africa (and now in Ukraine) because, as Bush the lesser told us, “God told him so.” One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.

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    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.
     
    I wouldn't move to the middle east so why are middle easterners moving to Europe?
    , @FLgeezer
    ----"Yes, the US neocons so Zionist persuasion"

    And if they didn't own the US Congress, American media, and courts could they still be getting away with this sort of outrage?

    "World War II holocaust survivors in the US, Israel and elsewhere can now apply for compensation from a $60 million fund for those deported to Nazi camps by France's state rail company SNCF.

    The application period for the French-funded, US-administered program opened Tuesday. The money will be available for survivors of deportations, or spouses or family members of deportees who have since died.
    "We consider this a very important day. People have waited 70 years", said Stuart Eizenstat, US special advisor on Holocaust issues.

    The compensation will be calculated after the application deadline May 31, 2016, once organizers know how many people are eligible. Survivors can expect to receive about $100,000 each, while spouses could receive tens of thousands of dollars, Eizenstat said.

    Hundreds of survivors and their spouses in the US are believed to be eligible, and several thousand could be eligible as heirs. Heirs would need to submit proof that their ancestor was deported, and what their nationality was, according to the State Department.

    The fund was created after a US-French agreement last year. As part of the deal, the US government agreed to end compensation claims against SNCF, which has sought lucrative contracts in US markets. SNCF transported 76,000 French Jews to Nazi camps. The company has expressed regret, but argues it had no effective control over operations during the Nazi occupation." Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel page 3A Nov 4, 2015.

    Isn't it great that the Land of the free has an Special Adviser on Holocaust Affairs? To what better use could our tax dollars be allocated? And just imagine the number of European companies that can be extorted. You've heard the expression "breed like rabbits", right? A corollary will in this case be "breed like heirs".
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  72. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @annamaria
    "Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world"

    Correct. These countries have been paying for the sins of the most Christian Mr. Codpiece & others, like the very Christian Condi Rice and even more pious Tony Blair the Catholic. Why there was no waves of desperate refugees from Libya, before this prosperous state had been bombed out to the smithereens and made into a playground for liver-eaters by the US/EU geniuses? And who are those planners that had created the blueprint for the ongoing bloodshed in the Middle East? - Yes, the US neocons of Zionist persuasion. Here comes the Yinon plan, followed by the Wolfowitz Doctrine and PNAC' obscenities, and "there is no daylight between the US and Israel interests." The same big mouths that cannot stop taking about "sanctity of life" and that all evils are due to women making abortions, the same scoundrels have no problems with sending the most advanced and deadly weaponry to test on the civilian populations in the Middle East and Africa (and now in Ukraine) because, as Bush the lesser told us, "God told him so." One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.

    One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.

    I wouldn’t move to the middle east so why are middle easterners moving to Europe?

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Obviously you have never been to places like Dubai and Kuwait. There are lots of pale faces running around and some of them behave quite "loutishly" http://www.thenational.ae/uae/courts/drunk-british-expat-wanders-into-emirati-family-home-in-dubai

    LOL!
    , @Osman
    Because they know there won`t be any drone attacks in Europe by Westerners. Jeez! This guy is thick as a ton of bricks. LOL!
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  73. Osman says:
    @RobinG

    useless NGOs
     
    Au contraire, lol, they are useful agents of espionage, propaganda, and sometimes agitprop.

    “Au contraire, lol, they are useful agents of espionage, propaganda, and sometimes agitprop.”

    Totally agree.

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  74. Avery says:
    @Osman
    If Russians don`t like Central Asians then why are Russians in the Central Asian "stans"? To ask the question is to answer it.

    [Osman says: November 4, 2015 at 7:58 am GMT
    If Russians don`t like Central Asians then why are Russians in the Central Asian “stans”? To ask the question is to answer it.]

    I didn’t ask a question in my post, but I will try to answer your question, since you seem a little confused: I am here to help.

    ANSWER: Actually there are relatively few Russians in _stans, except one _stan.

    1.Tajikistan:
    Ethnic groups:
    Tajik 84.3%, Uzbek 13.8% (includes Lakai, Kongrat, Katagan, Barlos, Yuz), other 2% (includes Kyrgyz, Russian, Turkmen, Tatar, Arab)
    Literacy: 99.8%
    GDP – per capita (PPP): $2,700 (2014 est.)

    2.Uzbekistan
    Ethnic groups:
    Uzbek 80%, Russian 5.5%, Tajik 5%, Kazakh 3%, Karakalpak 2.5%, Tatar 1.5%, other 2.5% (1996 est.)
    Literacy: 99.6%
    GDP – per capita (PPP): $5,600 (2014 est.)

    3.Turkmenistan:
    Ethnic groups:
    Turkmen 85%, Uzbek 5%, Russian 4%, other 6%.
    Literacy: 99.7%
    GDP – per capita (PPP): $14,200 (2014 est.)

    4.Kyrgyzstan
    Ethnic groups:
    Kyrgyz 70.9%, Uzbek 14.3%, Russian 7.7%, Dungan 1.1%, other 5.9% (includes Uyghur, Tajik, Turk, Kazakh, Tatar, Ukrainian, Korean, German)
    Literacy: 99.5%
    GDP – per capita (PPP): $3,400 (2014 est.)

    5.Kazakhstan
    Ethnic groups:
    Kazakh (Qazaq) 63.1%, Russian 23.7%, Uzbek 2.9%, Ukrainian 2.1%, Uighur 1.4%, Tatar 1.3%, German 1.1%, other 4.4%
    Literacy: 99.6%
    GDP – per capita (PPP): $24,000 (2014 est.)

    As you can see from the stats above, the Soviet/Russian presence in those _stans, after Bolsheviks came to power in Russia in 1917, and then spread Sovietization to 14 other SSRs, has been an unmitigated disaster.
    Interestingly, one _stan that has the most ethnic Russian composition, Kazakhstan, has the highest PPP at $24,000.
    Wonder why. Must be those evil Russians.

    For comparison as to how Soviet/Russian presence has negatively affected the former SSR _stans, let us compare them to Afghanistan, just South of Kazakhstan. Afghanistan was under communist rule for a time, but was never one of the SSR _stans. During the regressive communist rule, the PDPA government reformed the education system; education was stressed for both sexes, and widespread literacy programmes were set up. By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs.

    After CIA helped medieval Taliban regain control of the country, totally free of any Soviet/Russian presence, the country reached unprecedented levels of advancement in human potential.

    Here you go:
    Afghanistan
    Ethnic groups: Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, other (includes smaller numbers of Baloch, Turkmen, Nuristani, Pamiri, Arab, Gujar, Brahui, Qizilbash, Aimaq, Pashai, and Kyrghyz)
    Literacy: 38.2% WOW.
    GDP – per capita (PPP): $1,900 (2014 est.) WOW.

    Question for you Osman:

    If Russians are so bad, why are migrants from former SSR _stans going to Moscow/Russia to look for work, instead of one of those Islamic paradises not touched by the dirty hands of Soviets/Russians: for example Saudi Arabia.
    After all Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf sheikhdoms, have more money than they know what to do with ? Why not provide employment for their fellow Muslims.
    Can you please tell the readers of UNZ.com the reason ?
    Thank you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    I never said "Russians are so bad" but Russian colonialism in Central Asia and the Caucuses dating back to the Tsarist days is a historical fact. So don`t just blame it on those "bolsheviks"(a euphemism for Jews with White nationalist types). Even to this day, Russia militarily, economically dominates these regions. So it is natural for neocolonial subjects to migrate to the Metropole for a better life. If Russians don`t want these people coming to Moscow, maybe they should consider withdrawing their troops and companies from these regions and let these people be free of their domination. Now personally I have a soft spot for the Ruskies and their colonialism. The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, the Russians have been attacked numerous times by muslims on their periphery historically and have a genuine fear the West will use these disgruntled muslims against Russia (Chechnya anyone). So I give the Russians an out for their colonial domination of these regions. But that does not excuse appalling racist violence and exploitation against innocent migrant workers in Moscow. That is not just immoral but downright stupid and counterproductive by creating more resentment against Russia among these folks and who will then help the West in their crusade against Russia. Otherwise as an African, I have no issues with Russia actually quite grateful to those darned Soviets for helping us de-colonize. Putin not so bad also.
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  75. FLgeezer says:
    @annamaria
    "Nations such as Sweden and German had no colonies to speak of, did little to bother the Arab Muslim world"

    Correct. These countries have been paying for the sins of the most Christian Mr. Codpiece & others, like the very Christian Condi Rice and even more pious Tony Blair the Catholic. Why there was no waves of desperate refugees from Libya, before this prosperous state had been bombed out to the smithereens and made into a playground for liver-eaters by the US/EU geniuses? And who are those planners that had created the blueprint for the ongoing bloodshed in the Middle East? - Yes, the US neocons of Zionist persuasion. Here comes the Yinon plan, followed by the Wolfowitz Doctrine and PNAC' obscenities, and "there is no daylight between the US and Israel interests." The same big mouths that cannot stop taking about "sanctity of life" and that all evils are due to women making abortions, the same scoundrels have no problems with sending the most advanced and deadly weaponry to test on the civilian populations in the Middle East and Africa (and now in Ukraine) because, as Bush the lesser told us, "God told him so." One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.

    —-”Yes, the US neocons so Zionist persuasion”

    And if they didn’t own the US Congress, American media, and courts could they still be getting away with this sort of outrage?

    “World War II holocaust survivors in the US, Israel and elsewhere can now apply for compensation from a $60 million fund for those deported to Nazi camps by France’s state rail company SNCF.

    The application period for the French-funded, US-administered program opened Tuesday. The money will be available for survivors of deportations, or spouses or family members of deportees who have since died.
    “We consider this a very important day. People have waited 70 years”, said Stuart Eizenstat, US special advisor on Holocaust issues.

    The compensation will be calculated after the application deadline May 31, 2016, once organizers know how many people are eligible. Survivors can expect to receive about $100,000 each, while spouses could receive tens of thousands of dollars, Eizenstat said.

    Hundreds of survivors and their spouses in the US are believed to be eligible, and several thousand could be eligible as heirs. Heirs would need to submit proof that their ancestor was deported, and what their nationality was, according to the State Department.

    The fund was created after a US-French agreement last year. As part of the deal, the US government agreed to end compensation claims against SNCF, which has sought lucrative contracts in US markets. SNCF transported 76,000 French Jews to Nazi camps. The company has expressed regret, but argues it had no effective control over operations during the Nazi occupation.” Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel page 3A Nov 4, 2015.

    Isn’t it great that the Land of the free has an Special Adviser on Holocaust Affairs? To what better use could our tax dollars be allocated? And just imagine the number of European companies that can be extorted. You’ve heard the expression “breed like rabbits”, right? A corollary will in this case be “breed like heirs”.

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  76. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    "That is actually most of the global south and even parts of the European periphery like the Balkans. "

    The Balkans? Are the Turks now honorary members of the evil, white Westerners who have oppressed poor people of color for centuries-club????????
    Really, why are you posting your idiotic anti-white, anti-Western screeds here? Given the political orientation of most of the commenters around here, do you think anybody here cares about the demented ravings of some ungrateful Somali immigrant (if that's what you really are)? We don't care about your point of view and we don't want your approval, we wan't you to f**k off back to Africa.

    “The Balkans? Are the Turks now honorary members of the evil, white Westerners who have oppressed poor people of color for centuries-club????????”

    When did I say white westerners were “evil”? You guys sure love projecting and putting words in people`s mouths. And yes white westerners have oppressed and continue to oppress great swathes of the world. That is just a fact that you cannot deny. But to answer your question, yes I do think the Turks have been a monstrous imperialist power especially in the balkans and the Levant, but nowadays just a Western lackey client state. As for their whiteness I`ll leave it to you racists to determine if their “white enough” for you. And no I will not fuck off until u fuck off back to Europe. Capiche? As for my gratitude or lack of it I have probably sacrificed more for your sorry ass flags then many of you here. As an ever so grateful “new american” I swiftly enlisted in the military after 911 seeing that it was my co-religionists (btw I am now a proud new follower of agnosticism but that`s a whole other topic) who attacked my beloved adopted country. Boy! Was I naive! Now all I have to show for my troubles is mortar shrapnel and whining little white boys like you telling me to “fuck off back to Africa”. But hey in life u live and learn and fyi I no longer live in the West and have no wish to do so. But I do understand those poor souls who do NEED to go there to save themselves from the chaos u have unleashed on the planet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    "And no I will not fuck off until u fuck off back to Europe. "

    Why do you think I chose "German_Reader" as a user name? Umm, maybe because I actually am German? I live in Europe and have done so for my whole life. Obviously, you are a very bitter person, and maybe you even have legitimate reasons for feeling somewhat resentful towards the US and the US army. And of course, there are aspects of Western foreign policy that are highly questionable. But your "white Westerners are the root of all evil, they've exploited the entire planet and deserve mass immigration as a punishment" attitude is a silly caricature of the real world. It's no longer 1900 and pretending that all the problems of "people of colour" are the fault of white racists just isn't convincing anymore.
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  77. Osman says:
    @Demon for Truth
    Osman, you could have saved yourself a lot of words -- although it appears you love running on and on -- if you had confined your comment to this: "All our problems are because of you Westerners and now we're going to pay you back by overrunning you."

    “Osman, you could have saved yourself a lot of words — although it appears you love running on and on — if you had confined your comment to this: “All our problems are because of you Westerners and now we’re going to pay you back by overrunning you.”

    Again putting words into my mouth. When did I ever say “all our problems are because of you”? What part of blowback for your historical and ongoing imperialist interventions now euphemistically relabelled “western foreign policy” or “humanitarian intervention” do u not understand? Do u have trouble with reading comprehension? Because my argument is pretty straightforward you go mucking around in other countries don`t expect to be untouched by it. It`s quite simple really. I wonder what happened to that legendary “superior” European intellect because this thread is in dire need of it. LOL

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  78. Osman says:
    @Avery
    [Osman says: November 4, 2015 at 7:58 am GMT @Avery
    If Russians don`t like Central Asians then why are Russians in the Central Asian “stans”? To ask the question is to answer it.]

    I didn't ask a question in my post, but I will try to answer your question, since you seem a little confused: I am here to help.

    ANSWER: Actually there are relatively few Russians in _stans, except one _stan.

    1.Tajikistan:
    Ethnic groups:
    Tajik 84.3%, Uzbek 13.8% (includes Lakai, Kongrat, Katagan, Barlos, Yuz), other 2% (includes Kyrgyz, Russian, Turkmen, Tatar, Arab)
    Literacy: 99.8%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $2,700 (2014 est.)

    2.Uzbekistan
    Ethnic groups:
    Uzbek 80%, Russian 5.5%, Tajik 5%, Kazakh 3%, Karakalpak 2.5%, Tatar 1.5%, other 2.5% (1996 est.)
    Literacy: 99.6%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $5,600 (2014 est.)


    3.Turkmenistan:
    Ethnic groups:
    Turkmen 85%, Uzbek 5%, Russian 4%, other 6%.
    Literacy: 99.7%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $14,200 (2014 est.)


    4.Kyrgyzstan
    Ethnic groups:
    Kyrgyz 70.9%, Uzbek 14.3%, Russian 7.7%, Dungan 1.1%, other 5.9% (includes Uyghur, Tajik, Turk, Kazakh, Tatar, Ukrainian, Korean, German)
    Literacy: 99.5%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $3,400 (2014 est.)

    5.Kazakhstan
    Ethnic groups:
    Kazakh (Qazaq) 63.1%, Russian 23.7%, Uzbek 2.9%, Ukrainian 2.1%, Uighur 1.4%, Tatar 1.3%, German 1.1%, other 4.4%
    Literacy: 99.6%
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $24,000 (2014 est.)

    As you can see from the stats above, the Soviet/Russian presence in those _stans, after Bolsheviks came to power in Russia in 1917, and then spread Sovietization to 14 other SSRs, has been an unmitigated disaster.
    Interestingly, one _stan that has the most ethnic Russian composition, Kazakhstan, has the highest PPP at $24,000.
    Wonder why. Must be those evil Russians.

    For comparison as to how Soviet/Russian presence has negatively affected the former SSR _stans, let us compare them to Afghanistan, just South of Kazakhstan. Afghanistan was under communist rule for a time, but was never one of the SSR _stans. During the regressive communist rule, the PDPA government reformed the education system; education was stressed for both sexes, and widespread literacy programmes were set up. By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs.

    After CIA helped medieval Taliban regain control of the country, totally free of any Soviet/Russian presence, the country reached unprecedented levels of advancement in human potential.

    Here you go:
    Afghanistan
    Ethnic groups: Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, other (includes smaller numbers of Baloch, Turkmen, Nuristani, Pamiri, Arab, Gujar, Brahui, Qizilbash, Aimaq, Pashai, and Kyrghyz)
    Literacy: 38.2% WOW.
    GDP - per capita (PPP): $1,900 (2014 est.) WOW.

    Question for you Osman:

    If Russians are so bad, why are migrants from former SSR _stans going to Moscow/Russia to look for work, instead of one of those Islamic paradises not touched by the dirty hands of Soviets/Russians: for example Saudi Arabia.
    After all Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf sheikhdoms, have more money than they know what to do with ? Why not provide employment for their fellow Muslims.
    Can you please tell the readers of UNZ.com the reason ?
    Thank you.

    I never said “Russians are so bad” but Russian colonialism in Central Asia and the Caucuses dating back to the Tsarist days is a historical fact. So don`t just blame it on those “bolsheviks”(a euphemism for Jews with White nationalist types). Even to this day, Russia militarily, economically dominates these regions. So it is natural for neocolonial subjects to migrate to the Metropole for a better life. If Russians don`t want these people coming to Moscow, maybe they should consider withdrawing their troops and companies from these regions and let these people be free of their domination. Now personally I have a soft spot for the Ruskies and their colonialism. The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, the Russians have been attacked numerous times by muslims on their periphery historically and have a genuine fear the West will use these disgruntled muslims against Russia (Chechnya anyone). So I give the Russians an out for their colonial domination of these regions. But that does not excuse appalling racist violence and exploitation against innocent migrant workers in Moscow. That is not just immoral but downright stupid and counterproductive by creating more resentment against Russia among these folks and who will then help the West in their crusade against Russia. Otherwise as an African, I have no issues with Russia actually quite grateful to those darned Soviets for helping us de-colonize. Putin not so bad also.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    "The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, "

    Ever heard of the Barbary pirates or the sieges of Vienna?
    Sorry, no doubt Europeans did a lot of bad things during the age of imperialism and some groups may still have legitimate grievances...I'm all for Germany paying compensation to the Herero for example...but the Muslim world's view of itself as a poor innocent victim of Europeans, that's just not acceptable.
    , @Avery
    Don't throw everything, including the kitchen sink, in the mix.
    I gave you specific statistics.
    In case you missed what I was trying to have you see: colonialism, balonialism.

    The alleged Soviet/Russian "colonialism" in the _stans has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate and higher standard of living for all the _stans that had the "misfortune" of having been "colonized" by Soviets/Russians.

    One _stan that did not get the "horror" of being "colonized" by thems Russkies - Afghanistan - is a backwards, medieval cesspool.

    Again: why aren't those "oppressed", "colonized" citizens of _stans not going to work in the countries of their fellow Muslim brethren, but are eager to go and find employment in the homeland of of their Christian or Atheist "colonizers" and "oppressors".

    The SSR _stans have been independent since 1991: why do their citizens need to humiliate themselves working for those dastardly Roossian colonizers ?
    Why not find employment in prosperous Islamic countries that were not colonized by those evil Russians.
    Lots of employment opportunities in Afghanistan, Pakistan: Right ? Osman.

    Don't avoid the question: answer it.
    Why are the "oppressed" streaming towards their "oppressors" and "colonizers", Osman ?

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  79. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home

    One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.
     
    I wouldn't move to the middle east so why are middle easterners moving to Europe?

    Obviously you have never been to places like Dubai and Kuwait. There are lots of pale faces running around and some of them behave quite “loutishly” http://www.thenational.ae/uae/courts/drunk-british-expat-wanders-into-emirati-family-home-in-dubai

    LOL!

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    Westerners in Dubai and Kuwait don't get citizenship or welfare payouts...and guest workers from the Philippines etc. are treated little better than slaves. So totally not comparable to the status of immigrants in Europe or the US.
    , @This Is Our Home
    Those few western louts receive no citizenship or welfare and they are also the only reason why the natives of those countries are not still camel humping caravan raiders.
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  80. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home

    One wonders, would you (and your family) would do you if your city became selected for a massive drone attack.
     
    I wouldn't move to the middle east so why are middle easterners moving to Europe?

    Because they know there won`t be any drone attacks in Europe by Westerners. Jeez! This guy is thick as a ton of bricks. LOL!

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    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    Thereally are numerous drone attacks in the vast majority of midelegates eastern cities. Furthermore, let's face it, the drone attacks are utterly irrelevant compared to the ridiculous level of communal violence which middle easterners commit as the norm.
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  81. @Osman
    "The Balkans? Are the Turks now honorary members of the evil, white Westerners who have oppressed poor people of color for centuries-club????????"

    When did I say white westerners were "evil"? You guys sure love projecting and putting words in people`s mouths. And yes white westerners have oppressed and continue to oppress great swathes of the world. That is just a fact that you cannot deny. But to answer your question, yes I do think the Turks have been a monstrous imperialist power especially in the balkans and the Levant, but nowadays just a Western lackey client state. As for their whiteness I`ll leave it to you racists to determine if their "white enough" for you. And no I will not fuck off until u fuck off back to Europe. Capiche? As for my gratitude or lack of it I have probably sacrificed more for your sorry ass flags then many of you here. As an ever so grateful "new american" I swiftly enlisted in the military after 911 seeing that it was my co-religionists (btw I am now a proud new follower of agnosticism but that`s a whole other topic) who attacked my beloved adopted country. Boy! Was I naive! Now all I have to show for my troubles is mortar shrapnel and whining little white boys like you telling me to "fuck off back to Africa". But hey in life u live and learn and fyi I no longer live in the West and have no wish to do so. But I do understand those poor souls who do NEED to go there to save themselves from the chaos u have unleashed on the planet.

    “And no I will not fuck off until u fuck off back to Europe. ”

    Why do you think I chose “German_Reader” as a user name? Umm, maybe because I actually am German? I live in Europe and have done so for my whole life. Obviously, you are a very bitter person, and maybe you even have legitimate reasons for feeling somewhat resentful towards the US and the US army. And of course, there are aspects of Western foreign policy that are highly questionable. But your “white Westerners are the root of all evil, they’ve exploited the entire planet and deserve mass immigration as a punishment” attitude is a silly caricature of the real world. It’s no longer 1900 and pretending that all the problems of “people of colour” are the fault of white racists just isn’t convincing anymore.

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  82. @Osman
    I never said "Russians are so bad" but Russian colonialism in Central Asia and the Caucuses dating back to the Tsarist days is a historical fact. So don`t just blame it on those "bolsheviks"(a euphemism for Jews with White nationalist types). Even to this day, Russia militarily, economically dominates these regions. So it is natural for neocolonial subjects to migrate to the Metropole for a better life. If Russians don`t want these people coming to Moscow, maybe they should consider withdrawing their troops and companies from these regions and let these people be free of their domination. Now personally I have a soft spot for the Ruskies and their colonialism. The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, the Russians have been attacked numerous times by muslims on their periphery historically and have a genuine fear the West will use these disgruntled muslims against Russia (Chechnya anyone). So I give the Russians an out for their colonial domination of these regions. But that does not excuse appalling racist violence and exploitation against innocent migrant workers in Moscow. That is not just immoral but downright stupid and counterproductive by creating more resentment against Russia among these folks and who will then help the West in their crusade against Russia. Otherwise as an African, I have no issues with Russia actually quite grateful to those darned Soviets for helping us de-colonize. Putin not so bad also.

    “The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, ”

    Ever heard of the Barbary pirates or the sieges of Vienna?
    Sorry, no doubt Europeans did a lot of bad things during the age of imperialism and some groups may still have legitimate grievances…I’m all for Germany paying compensation to the Herero for example…but the Muslim world’s view of itself as a poor innocent victim of Europeans, that’s just not acceptable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    why don't you Germans tell that to the Jews who are still extorting you?

    It’s no longer 1900 and pretending that all the problems of “people of color” Jewish people are the fault of white racists Germans, Hitler, Nazis, Christians -- take your pick just isn’t convincing anymore.
     
    Maybe if you Germans rinse out the brainwashing we Americans can liberate ourselves as well.
    , @Osman
    I`m touched that u want to pay reparations for your genocide against the Hereros but I doubt u left many surviving descendants to receive it but I guess u could always give it to the govt of Namibia. Anyhow the gesture is nice but it would be better if your governments changed their imperialist foreign policies that lead to such tragedies in the first place. I believe that was the Ottoman Turks with the Barbary Pirates being their two bit vassals at the time and I have already conceded that the Turks were imperialists and monstrous ones in their time. But even those were small time pin pricks (and most of the victims were the southern tier poor balkan countries anyhow not the imperialist countries of Western Europe) and could also be considered payback for European warmongering dating back thru the Crusades and as far back as Alexander the Great. It`s really hard to find an equivalent level of sustained level of violence emanating from the East if that were the case the West would have had no time to regroup in those years you call the late dark ages to the renaissance and "enlightenment". I recommend this book if you are interested on that topic http://grahamefuller.com/world-without-islam/ You act as if the "age of imperialism" is over. Hello where have u been since post cold war era let alone the shit that went on during the cold war itself? Do u think there was no imperialist meddling in the NATO overthrow/murder of Gaddafi in Libya? Or the ongoing military occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan and the drone bombings by the West and its allies in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen? Not to mention all the bases scattered around the Muslim world? And I even didn`t mention the obvious case of Syria? Germany as a member of NATO, ally of the US and host to numerous American military bases is neck deep in this mess? So are u denying all these obvious facts? Or just playing dumb like a child with his fingers in his ears? Most of these Muslim refugees you hate so much come from these same countries you have destabilized. So why are you surprised that they show up on your doorstep? If u don`t want these problems how about minding your own business and stopping all these foolish imperialist military adventures that are causing you uncomfort and destroying these countries. I will quote Putin from his latest UN speech "Now Do u realize what u have done?" That is a question that is reverbating around the world.
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  83. @Osman
    Obviously you have never been to places like Dubai and Kuwait. There are lots of pale faces running around and some of them behave quite "loutishly" http://www.thenational.ae/uae/courts/drunk-british-expat-wanders-into-emirati-family-home-in-dubai

    LOL!

    Westerners in Dubai and Kuwait don’t get citizenship or welfare payouts…and guest workers from the Philippines etc. are treated little better than slaves. So totally not comparable to the status of immigrants in Europe or the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    This is probably the only point you are correct about, all the rest of your comments are shoddy preening. But, even this comment is rubbish, because Osman never wrote that Dubai and Kuwait give or do not give Westerners citizenship. You are a "German" straw-men manufacturer.
    , @Osman
    I agree Westerners in the Gulf (I consider them Western colonies) don`t get the equivalent of your measly "welfare payments" but they are treated like royalty receiving undeserved huge salaries that should be going to those hardworking Filipinos, Indians, and other Asian guest workers which is direct function of those countries being under Western indirect rule. They are treated like slaves true I agree but so are African farm workers in places like southern Italy http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1953619,00.html
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  84. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    "Germany had no colonies" Seriously? Is that your level of historical knowledge? What do u call Namibia, Togo, and Tanganika? The Germans even perfected their genocide machine against the Hereros in Namibia long before the holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

    Sweden and Germany are both members of NATO and joined the invasion of Libya (many of the Africans were living and working in Libya and would have stayed there hadn`t your countries invaded and destroyed that country)and NATO still occupies Afghanistan. So before u spout some nonsense about your "white innocence" and call me a "lefty" check your bloody facts and stop making a fool of yourself. "Invasion" LOL! Don`t u just love this psychological projection? After European racist imperialists like Clyde invaded and looted the entire planet (and as I have shown still invade and occupy other countries) they complain about a few miserable refugees and call it an "invasion". Yeah go ahead and start using helicopter gunships on those refugees while lecturing the rest of us on "Western values and liberal democracy". What a spectacle that would be LOL! Otherwise Clyde you are a coward of the first degree shitting his pants at the thought of refugees moving to his precious "fortress Europe" when he has no problem invading the same countries these refugees come from. Deal with it Clyde. Every action has consequences.

    Osman, you know much more about this than the brigade of your critics. Germany never had colonies!? Which tree do such monkeys come from? If one makes a statement, one better makes sure that it is at least something historically ambiguous, not some blatant stupidity such as “Germany never had colonies”. And you did not even mention the German shenanigans in South America.

    Also, absolutely correct about the Sweden and Germany being involved in the destruction of Libya, by providing services to the NATO bombers.

    Ah, all those innocent Europeans of noble intentions: they rape your country and call it a white-men’s burden. They still try to do the same even in the 21st century, when lies and manipulations get exposed quickly on the Internet.

    BTW, I am white myself.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    "And you did not even mention the German shenanigans in South America."

    What are you talking about? Support for military dictatorships during the Cold war? How is that relevant to today's migration crisis?
    And yes, Germany did have some African colonies, for a 30-year period, ending in 1918...how exactly is that relevant for current events?
    , @Osman
    Kiza, I know it`s quite amazing people in the so called "civilized West" are displaying such ignorance. Yet these same individuals are the ones claiming "genetic superiority" in intelligence LOL!

    "I`m white myself" no worries friend contrary to popular opinion here I don`t hold that against you LOL! Cheers!

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  85. Kiza says:
    @German_reader
    Westerners in Dubai and Kuwait don't get citizenship or welfare payouts...and guest workers from the Philippines etc. are treated little better than slaves. So totally not comparable to the status of immigrants in Europe or the US.

    This is probably the only point you are correct about, all the rest of your comments are shoddy preening. But, even this comment is rubbish, because Osman never wrote that Dubai and Kuwait give or do not give Westerners citizenship. You are a “German” straw-men manufacturer.

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  86. @Kiza
    Osman, you know much more about this than the brigade of your critics. Germany never had colonies!? Which tree do such monkeys come from? If one makes a statement, one better makes sure that it is at least something historically ambiguous, not some blatant stupidity such as "Germany never had colonies". And you did not even mention the German shenanigans in South America.

    Also, absolutely correct about the Sweden and Germany being involved in the destruction of Libya, by providing services to the NATO bombers.

    Ah, all those innocent Europeans of noble intentions: they rape your country and call it a white-men's burden. They still try to do the same even in the 21st century, when lies and manipulations get exposed quickly on the Internet.

    BTW, I am white myself.

    “And you did not even mention the German shenanigans in South America.”

    What are you talking about? Support for military dictatorships during the Cold war? How is that relevant to today’s migration crisis?
    And yes, Germany did have some African colonies, for a 30-year period, ending in 1918…how exactly is that relevant for current events?

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    One of you, the Osman critics, said that Germany never had colonies, this is how the issue of colonies came to be discussed. The relevance of this to the refugee crisis (you chose to label it the "migrant" crisis), is that the current stripping and pillaging of North Africa and Middle East by the West is neo-colonialism.

    How many billions of dollars did NATO humanitarian bombers steal from Gaddafi's Libya, including the billions of investments that Goldman Sax appropriated before the bombing? Some estimates say that between $180 and $300 Billion was stolen by the "humanitarians". Maybe Germany did not get a big share of the loot, but it did provide support services to the "humanitarians". Libya was left in chaos so that no organized government can lay a claim on the Libyan billions appropriated by the Western banks.

    Smashing up of countries and stealing are the root cause of the current refugee crisis that Europe is experiencing. Nobody in Europe dares mention the unmentionable - that your NATO mafia capo - the US and its boss, il capo dei capi - Israel are to blame.

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  87. Avery says:
    @Osman
    I never said "Russians are so bad" but Russian colonialism in Central Asia and the Caucuses dating back to the Tsarist days is a historical fact. So don`t just blame it on those "bolsheviks"(a euphemism for Jews with White nationalist types). Even to this day, Russia militarily, economically dominates these regions. So it is natural for neocolonial subjects to migrate to the Metropole for a better life. If Russians don`t want these people coming to Moscow, maybe they should consider withdrawing their troops and companies from these regions and let these people be free of their domination. Now personally I have a soft spot for the Ruskies and their colonialism. The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, the Russians have been attacked numerous times by muslims on their periphery historically and have a genuine fear the West will use these disgruntled muslims against Russia (Chechnya anyone). So I give the Russians an out for their colonial domination of these regions. But that does not excuse appalling racist violence and exploitation against innocent migrant workers in Moscow. That is not just immoral but downright stupid and counterproductive by creating more resentment against Russia among these folks and who will then help the West in their crusade against Russia. Otherwise as an African, I have no issues with Russia actually quite grateful to those darned Soviets for helping us de-colonize. Putin not so bad also.

    Don’t throw everything, including the kitchen sink, in the mix.
    I gave you specific statistics.
    In case you missed what I was trying to have you see: colonialism, balonialism.

    The alleged Soviet/Russian “colonialism” in the _stans has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate and higher standard of living for all the _stans that had the “misfortune” of having been “colonized” by Soviets/Russians.

    One _stan that did not get the “horror” of being “colonized” by thems Russkies – Afghanistan – is a backwards, medieval cesspool.

    Again: why aren’t those “oppressed”, “colonized” citizens of _stans not going to work in the countries of their fellow Muslim brethren, but are eager to go and find employment in the homeland of of their Christian or Atheist “colonizers” and “oppressors”.

    The SSR _stans have been independent since 1991: why do their citizens need to humiliate themselves working for those dastardly Roossian colonizers ?
    Why not find employment in prosperous Islamic countries that were not colonized by those evil Russians.
    Lots of employment opportunities in Afghanistan, Pakistan: Right ? Osman.

    Don’t avoid the question: answer it.
    Why are the “oppressed” streaming towards their “oppressors” and “colonizers”, Osman ?

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Let`s take your statements one by one:

    You said: "The alleged Soviet/Russian “colonialism” in the _stans has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate and higher standard of living for all the _stans that had the “misfortune” of having been “colonized” by Soviets/Russians."

    Okay I will concede for the sake of argument since I`m not an expert on literacy stats in the Former Soviet Republic, that Russian colonization of these countries "has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate" (a suspiciously high number, 99% reminds of those "elections" we used to have in my country were the dictator would always win with a margin of 99% unopposed). So does that justify invading and occupying other people`s countries because you claim to have given them a "higher standard of living"? That smacks of that old colonialist canard "mission civilisatrice" a self-serving excuse to invade and pillage other countries if there ever was one. Somehow I don`t think you are the most credible interlocutor on this issue considering you sound like a Slavic neo-nazi type. And I`m sceptical Tsarist Russia had the best interests of Central Asians in mind when they invaded and brutally colonized and dispossessed these people http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch09sr.htm

    "One _stan that did not get the “horror” of being “colonized” by thems Russkies – Afghanistan – is a backwards, medieval cesspool."

    I think Afghans remember that history a little differently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR7xwzjkxbY It maybe a "medieval cesspool" but it is their "medieval cesspool" not yours. No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them. It seems some of you here complain loudly about "refugee and migrant invasion" into your countries but strangely indifferent and even proud of your REAL invasions of other countries. I guess that is part of your White European "exceptionalism" eh? LOL

    "why aren’t those “oppressed”, “colonized” citizens of _stans not going to work in the countries of their fellow Muslim brethren, but are eager to go and find employment in the homeland of of their Christian or Atheist “colonizers” and “oppressors”."

    Well maybe because those "muslim brethren" of theirs did not invade and occupy them and still dominate them militarily and economically and in the case of the Caucuses just outright annexed entire territories and in one particular horrible case committed genocide against the Circassians of Sochi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4lxzZjkhs So if you don`t want them in precious Moscow and St. Petersburg then get out of Grozny and Dushanbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit. Until then lump it buddy u go there they come to you. It`s as simple as that.

    "The SSR _stans have been independent since 1991: why do their citizens need to humiliate themselves working for those dastardly Roossian colonizers ?
    Why not find employment in prosperous Islamic countries that were not colonized by those evil Russians.
    Lots of employment opportunities in Afghanistan, Pakistan: Right ? Osman.

    Don’t avoid the question: answer it.
    Why are the “oppressed” streaming towards their “oppressors” and “colonizers”, Osman ?"

    This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans. As I have already said for the umpteenth time these countries are under the complete military and economic domination of Russia not Pakistan or any other "muslim brethren" (see the above link for a list of Russian military bases in Central Asia) and I`m not even talking about the annexed republics like Dagestan, Chechnya, and Tatarstan. So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now. I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin, who realizes the futility of Russia making enemies on its eastern and southern flank with moronic racist tropes like yours while trying to fend off Western encroachment on its Western borders. Hence why Russia is busy making friends in the more independent minded Muslim world (Assad, Iran, Hezbollah, Algeria, Egypt`s Sisi, Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya, and even the Stans including Pakistan btw. If Russia followed your advice they would fall right into the trap set by the Empire with all those disgruntled muslims in Russia joining Western supported jihadi outfits like ISIS and what not. I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.

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  88. @German_reader
    "The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, "

    Ever heard of the Barbary pirates or the sieges of Vienna?
    Sorry, no doubt Europeans did a lot of bad things during the age of imperialism and some groups may still have legitimate grievances...I'm all for Germany paying compensation to the Herero for example...but the Muslim world's view of itself as a poor innocent victim of Europeans, that's just not acceptable.

    why don’t you Germans tell that to the Jews who are still extorting you?

    It’s no longer 1900 and pretending that all the problems of “people of color” Jewish people are the fault of white racists Germans, Hitler, Nazis, Christians — take your pick just isn’t convincing anymore.

    Maybe if you Germans rinse out the brainwashing we Americans can liberate ourselves as well.

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  89. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    Because they know there won`t be any drone attacks in Europe by Westerners. Jeez! This guy is thick as a ton of bricks. LOL!

    Thereally are numerous drone attacks in the vast majority of midelegates eastern cities. Furthermore, let’s face it, the drone attacks are utterly irrelevant compared to the ridiculous level of communal violence which middle easterners commit as the norm.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    So that makes those drone attacks okay because there is communal violence that you fostered on purpose with your death squads (remember Negroponte`s "El Salvador option") http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagon-s-salvador-option-the-deployment-of-death-squads-in-iraq-and-syria/26043

    Trust me I saw that shit first hand and it wasn`t pretty.
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  90. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    Obviously you have never been to places like Dubai and Kuwait. There are lots of pale faces running around and some of them behave quite "loutishly" http://www.thenational.ae/uae/courts/drunk-british-expat-wanders-into-emirati-family-home-in-dubai

    LOL!

    Those few western louts receive no citizenship or welfare and they are also the only reason why the natives of those countries are not still camel humping caravan raiders.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    You are obviously ignorant of the current situation in those countries. It might have been like that in the 50s and 60s but nowadays most of the work including high end white collar work is done by Filipinos, Indians, Pakistanis, Egyptians, Lebanese. Syrians, Palestinians, and other "darkies" u love to hate so much. Actually most of the Whites there nowadays are overpaid drunk losers mostly soldier of fortune types now euphemistically renamed "military contractors".
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  91. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    "The way I see it, unlike Western Europe, "

    Ever heard of the Barbary pirates or the sieges of Vienna?
    Sorry, no doubt Europeans did a lot of bad things during the age of imperialism and some groups may still have legitimate grievances...I'm all for Germany paying compensation to the Herero for example...but the Muslim world's view of itself as a poor innocent victim of Europeans, that's just not acceptable.

    I`m touched that u want to pay reparations for your genocide against the Hereros but I doubt u left many surviving descendants to receive it but I guess u could always give it to the govt of Namibia. Anyhow the gesture is nice but it would be better if your governments changed their imperialist foreign policies that lead to such tragedies in the first place. I believe that was the Ottoman Turks with the Barbary Pirates being their two bit vassals at the time and I have already conceded that the Turks were imperialists and monstrous ones in their time. But even those were small time pin pricks (and most of the victims were the southern tier poor balkan countries anyhow not the imperialist countries of Western Europe) and could also be considered payback for European warmongering dating back thru the Crusades and as far back as Alexander the Great. It`s really hard to find an equivalent level of sustained level of violence emanating from the East if that were the case the West would have had no time to regroup in those years you call the late dark ages to the renaissance and “enlightenment”. I recommend this book if you are interested on that topic http://grahamefuller.com/world-without-islam/ You act as if the “age of imperialism” is over. Hello where have u been since post cold war era let alone the shit that went on during the cold war itself? Do u think there was no imperialist meddling in the NATO overthrow/murder of Gaddafi in Libya? Or the ongoing military occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan and the drone bombings by the West and its allies in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen? Not to mention all the bases scattered around the Muslim world? And I even didn`t mention the obvious case of Syria? Germany as a member of NATO, ally of the US and host to numerous American military bases is neck deep in this mess? So are u denying all these obvious facts? Or just playing dumb like a child with his fingers in his ears? Most of these Muslim refugees you hate so much come from these same countries you have destabilized. So why are you surprised that they show up on your doorstep? If u don`t want these problems how about minding your own business and stopping all these foolish imperialist military adventures that are causing you uncomfort and destroying these countries. I will quote Putin from his latest UN speech “Now Do u realize what u have done?” That is a question that is reverbating around the world.

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    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @German_reader
    "But even those were small time pin pricks (and most of the victims were the southern tier poor balkan countries anyhow not the imperialist countries of Western Europe) and could also be considered payback for European warmongering dating back thru the Crusades and as far back as Alexander the Great. "

    Don't know where you get the idea from that the main victims of Barbary pirates were Balkan countries...as far as I know, Italy was actually most severely affected, with some coastal regions living in constant terror during the early modern age. And while it's pretty silly to play the "Who was aggressive first?"-game I find it striking that you totally ignore the ample evidence for Muslim imperialism during the first centuries of Islam...not just against Persia and Byzantium, but also against the Latin West. The Muslims conquered Spain, and there were Saracen raiders terrorizing the Alpine passes and killing or capturing Christian pilgrims going to Rome during the 10th century; Rome itself had already been pillaged by Saracens in 846. That was long before the crusades and any supposed blowback from Western aggression. Sorry, in world historical terms Muslims just don't get to play the "blameless victim of Western imperialism"-card.
    As for the present: I'm against much of the West's foreign policy in the Mideast (intervention in Afghanistan however was justified after 9/11) and opposed the Iraq war, for reasons of realpolitik. However, it's just silly to pretend countries like Iraq or Syria are the mess they are now just because of Western plots. Sectarian divisions are inherent to those countries.
    , @Kat Grey
    Osman, Muslims have been invading and pillaging Europe centuries before the Pope launched the first Crusade. When do you think Iberia and Sicily were invaded by the Moors? 8th century!!! That's a full three hundred years before the Crusades began.
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  92. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    Westerners in Dubai and Kuwait don't get citizenship or welfare payouts...and guest workers from the Philippines etc. are treated little better than slaves. So totally not comparable to the status of immigrants in Europe or the US.

    I agree Westerners in the Gulf (I consider them Western colonies) don`t get the equivalent of your measly “welfare payments” but they are treated like royalty receiving undeserved huge salaries that should be going to those hardworking Filipinos, Indians, and other Asian guest workers which is direct function of those countries being under Western indirect rule. They are treated like slaves true I agree but so are African farm workers in places like southern Italy http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1953619,00.html

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    So the Gulf states are Western "colonies" now...I think there's little sense to a discussion with you. You have that view of an all-powerful, malevolent West that's in control of everything and oppresses everyone else...no other independent actors. That view of the world might have been one approaching reality in 1900...but today, it's just silly.
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  93. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    Osman, you know much more about this than the brigade of your critics. Germany never had colonies!? Which tree do such monkeys come from? If one makes a statement, one better makes sure that it is at least something historically ambiguous, not some blatant stupidity such as "Germany never had colonies". And you did not even mention the German shenanigans in South America.

    Also, absolutely correct about the Sweden and Germany being involved in the destruction of Libya, by providing services to the NATO bombers.

    Ah, all those innocent Europeans of noble intentions: they rape your country and call it a white-men's burden. They still try to do the same even in the 21st century, when lies and manipulations get exposed quickly on the Internet.

    BTW, I am white myself.

    Kiza, I know it`s quite amazing people in the so called “civilized West” are displaying such ignorance. Yet these same individuals are the ones claiming “genetic superiority” in intelligence LOL!

    “I`m white myself” no worries friend contrary to popular opinion here I don`t hold that against you LOL! Cheers!

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  94. Kiza says:
    @German_reader
    "And you did not even mention the German shenanigans in South America."

    What are you talking about? Support for military dictatorships during the Cold war? How is that relevant to today's migration crisis?
    And yes, Germany did have some African colonies, for a 30-year period, ending in 1918...how exactly is that relevant for current events?

    One of you, the Osman critics, said that Germany never had colonies, this is how the issue of colonies came to be discussed. The relevance of this to the refugee crisis (you chose to label it the “migrant” crisis), is that the current stripping and pillaging of North Africa and Middle East by the West is neo-colonialism.

    How many billions of dollars did NATO humanitarian bombers steal from Gaddafi’s Libya, including the billions of investments that Goldman Sax appropriated before the bombing? Some estimates say that between $180 and $300 Billion was stolen by the “humanitarians”. Maybe Germany did not get a big share of the loot, but it did provide support services to the “humanitarians”. Libya was left in chaos so that no organized government can lay a claim on the Libyan billions appropriated by the Western banks.

    Smashing up of countries and stealing are the root cause of the current refugee crisis that Europe is experiencing. Nobody in Europe dares mention the unmentionable – that your NATO mafia capo – the US and its boss, il capo dei capi – Israel are to blame.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "Smashing up of countries and stealing are the root cause of the current refugee crisis that Europe is experiencing. Nobody in Europe dares mention the unmentionable – that your NATO mafia capo – the US and its boss, il capo dei capi – Israel are to blame."

    Amen to that Kiza! Yes they dare not look in the mirror and prefer to deflect with strawman arguments and self-serving tropes like "look how generous we are to these ungrateful darkies"
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  95. Osman says:
    @Avery
    Don't throw everything, including the kitchen sink, in the mix.
    I gave you specific statistics.
    In case you missed what I was trying to have you see: colonialism, balonialism.

    The alleged Soviet/Russian "colonialism" in the _stans has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate and higher standard of living for all the _stans that had the "misfortune" of having been "colonized" by Soviets/Russians.

    One _stan that did not get the "horror" of being "colonized" by thems Russkies - Afghanistan - is a backwards, medieval cesspool.

    Again: why aren't those "oppressed", "colonized" citizens of _stans not going to work in the countries of their fellow Muslim brethren, but are eager to go and find employment in the homeland of of their Christian or Atheist "colonizers" and "oppressors".

    The SSR _stans have been independent since 1991: why do their citizens need to humiliate themselves working for those dastardly Roossian colonizers ?
    Why not find employment in prosperous Islamic countries that were not colonized by those evil Russians.
    Lots of employment opportunities in Afghanistan, Pakistan: Right ? Osman.

    Don't avoid the question: answer it.
    Why are the "oppressed" streaming towards their "oppressors" and "colonizers", Osman ?

    Let`s take your statements one by one:

    You said: “The alleged Soviet/Russian “colonialism” in the _stans has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate and higher standard of living for all the _stans that had the “misfortune” of having been “colonized” by Soviets/Russians.”

    Okay I will concede for the sake of argument since I`m not an expert on literacy stats in the Former Soviet Republic, that Russian colonization of these countries “has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate” (a suspiciously high number, 99% reminds of those “elections” we used to have in my country were the dictator would always win with a margin of 99% unopposed). So does that justify invading and occupying other people`s countries because you claim to have given them a “higher standard of living”? That smacks of that old colonialist canard “mission civilisatrice” a self-serving excuse to invade and pillage other countries if there ever was one. Somehow I don`t think you are the most credible interlocutor on this issue considering you sound like a Slavic neo-nazi type. And I`m sceptical Tsarist Russia had the best interests of Central Asians in mind when they invaded and brutally colonized and dispossessed these people http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch09sr.htm

    “One _stan that did not get the “horror” of being “colonized” by thems Russkies – Afghanistan – is a backwards, medieval cesspool.”

    I think Afghans remember that history a little differently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR7xwzjkxbY It maybe a “medieval cesspool” but it is their “medieval cesspool” not yours. No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them. It seems some of you here complain loudly about “refugee and migrant invasion” into your countries but strangely indifferent and even proud of your REAL invasions of other countries. I guess that is part of your White European “exceptionalism” eh? LOL

    “why aren’t those “oppressed”, “colonized” citizens of _stans not going to work in the countries of their fellow Muslim brethren, but are eager to go and find employment in the homeland of of their Christian or Atheist “colonizers” and “oppressors”.”

    Well maybe because those “muslim brethren” of theirs did not invade and occupy them and still dominate them militarily and economically and in the case of the Caucuses just outright annexed entire territories and in one particular horrible case committed genocide against the Circassians of Sochi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4lxzZjkhs So if you don`t want them in precious Moscow and St. Petersburg then get out of Grozny and Dushanbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit. Until then lump it buddy u go there they come to you. It`s as simple as that.

    “The SSR _stans have been independent since 1991: why do their citizens need to humiliate themselves working for those dastardly Roossian colonizers ?
    Why not find employment in prosperous Islamic countries that were not colonized by those evil Russians.
    Lots of employment opportunities in Afghanistan, Pakistan: Right ? Osman.

    Don’t avoid the question: answer it.
    Why are the “oppressed” streaming towards their “oppressors” and “colonizers”, Osman ?”

    This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans. As I have already said for the umpteenth time these countries are under the complete military and economic domination of Russia not Pakistan or any other “muslim brethren” (see the above link for a list of Russian military bases in Central Asia) and I`m not even talking about the annexed republics like Dagestan, Chechnya, and Tatarstan. So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now. I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin, who realizes the futility of Russia making enemies on its eastern and southern flank with moronic racist tropes like yours while trying to fend off Western encroachment on its Western borders. Hence why Russia is busy making friends in the more independent minded Muslim world (Assad, Iran, Hezbollah, Algeria, Egypt`s Sisi, Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya, and even the Stans including Pakistan btw. If Russia followed your advice they would fall right into the trap set by the Empire with all those disgruntled muslims in Russia joining Western supported jihadi outfits like ISIS and what not. I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them."
    To be fair, the Soviets' introductions to Afghanistan (please, be mindful of the ethnic composition of the Soviets) were incomparably more beneficial than the American policies. Besides, the Soviet Union' invasion itself pursued the clear strategic goals to protect Soviet interests on the Union' borders. The overall logic of your comment is valid, yet the specifics show irrefutably that the Soviets had tried to improve the lives of the ordinary Afghanis, whereas the Americans have been trying to improve the base line of the well-connected war profiteers for the expense of the ordinary Afghanis
    Avery: "By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs."
    Compare that to the current state of medieval oppression of Afghani women and the total carnage wrecked by the US agains Afghanistan.
    , @Avery
    {Well maybe because those “muslim brethren” of theirs did not invade and occupy them…}

    Your Muslim brethren, from a small base in Mecca, have invaded, occupied, and ethnically cleansed and forcibly Islamized formerly Christian and non-Muslim lands.
    Millions of square miles.
    For example, Asia Minor, formerly non-Muslim, pretty much all Christian, was invaded by Muslim Turkic nomad tribes.
    You know from where ? East and Central Asia: Uyguristan.
    Take a look at a map and see how close Uyguristan is to Asia Minor.
    Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe.
    When radical Muslims stop invading Christian lands and and stop attempts to forcibly Islamize people, then maybe there will be no more meddling in the affairs of neighboring countries, by e.g. Russia.
    Chechnya had practical independence after the first Chechen war.
    But radical Islamists decided to spread Wahhabism to other nearby Russian Federation republics; so Moscow had to wipe them out.
    With crucial help from Chechens themselves.
    Take a look at this:
    [100,000 Chechens Attend Putin`s Birthday Rally in Grozny]
    http://www.sott.net/article/286964-Happy-birthday-Mr-President-100K-Chechens-gather-to-wish-Putin-a-happy-birthday
    Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?


    {Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit.}
    {This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans}
    {So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now.}
    {I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.}

    Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck.


    {I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin}

    I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me.

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  96. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Thereally are numerous drone attacks in the vast majority of midelegates eastern cities. Furthermore, let's face it, the drone attacks are utterly irrelevant compared to the ridiculous level of communal violence which middle easterners commit as the norm.

    So that makes those drone attacks okay because there is communal violence that you fostered on purpose with your death squads (remember Negroponte`s “El Salvador option”) http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagon-s-salvador-option-the-deployment-of-death-squads-in-iraq-and-syria/26043

    Trust me I saw that shit first hand and it wasn`t pretty.

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  97. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Those few western louts receive no citizenship or welfare and they are also the only reason why the natives of those countries are not still camel humping caravan raiders.

    You are obviously ignorant of the current situation in those countries. It might have been like that in the 50s and 60s but nowadays most of the work including high end white collar work is done by Filipinos, Indians, Pakistanis, Egyptians, Lebanese. Syrians, Palestinians, and other “darkies” u love to hate so much. Actually most of the Whites there nowadays are overpaid drunk losers mostly soldier of fortune types now euphemistically renamed “military contractors”.

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    Yes, third worlders are used as slaves by those lovely humanitarian Arabs but ultimately without Europe and America those places would still be remote dumps full of camel humping caravan raiders.

    This is an undeniable fact.
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  98. @Osman
    I`m touched that u want to pay reparations for your genocide against the Hereros but I doubt u left many surviving descendants to receive it but I guess u could always give it to the govt of Namibia. Anyhow the gesture is nice but it would be better if your governments changed their imperialist foreign policies that lead to such tragedies in the first place. I believe that was the Ottoman Turks with the Barbary Pirates being their two bit vassals at the time and I have already conceded that the Turks were imperialists and monstrous ones in their time. But even those were small time pin pricks (and most of the victims were the southern tier poor balkan countries anyhow not the imperialist countries of Western Europe) and could also be considered payback for European warmongering dating back thru the Crusades and as far back as Alexander the Great. It`s really hard to find an equivalent level of sustained level of violence emanating from the East if that were the case the West would have had no time to regroup in those years you call the late dark ages to the renaissance and "enlightenment". I recommend this book if you are interested on that topic http://grahamefuller.com/world-without-islam/ You act as if the "age of imperialism" is over. Hello where have u been since post cold war era let alone the shit that went on during the cold war itself? Do u think there was no imperialist meddling in the NATO overthrow/murder of Gaddafi in Libya? Or the ongoing military occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan and the drone bombings by the West and its allies in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen? Not to mention all the bases scattered around the Muslim world? And I even didn`t mention the obvious case of Syria? Germany as a member of NATO, ally of the US and host to numerous American military bases is neck deep in this mess? So are u denying all these obvious facts? Or just playing dumb like a child with his fingers in his ears? Most of these Muslim refugees you hate so much come from these same countries you have destabilized. So why are you surprised that they show up on your doorstep? If u don`t want these problems how about minding your own business and stopping all these foolish imperialist military adventures that are causing you uncomfort and destroying these countries. I will quote Putin from his latest UN speech "Now Do u realize what u have done?" That is a question that is reverbating around the world.

    “But even those were small time pin pricks (and most of the victims were the southern tier poor balkan countries anyhow not the imperialist countries of Western Europe) and could also be considered payback for European warmongering dating back thru the Crusades and as far back as Alexander the Great. ”

    Don’t know where you get the idea from that the main victims of Barbary pirates were Balkan countries…as far as I know, Italy was actually most severely affected, with some coastal regions living in constant terror during the early modern age. And while it’s pretty silly to play the “Who was aggressive first?”-game I find it striking that you totally ignore the ample evidence for Muslim imperialism during the first centuries of Islam…not just against Persia and Byzantium, but also against the Latin West. The Muslims conquered Spain, and there were Saracen raiders terrorizing the Alpine passes and killing or capturing Christian pilgrims going to Rome during the 10th century; Rome itself had already been pillaged by Saracens in 846. That was long before the crusades and any supposed blowback from Western aggression. Sorry, in world historical terms Muslims just don’t get to play the “blameless victim of Western imperialism”-card.
    As for the present: I’m against much of the West’s foreign policy in the Mideast (intervention in Afghanistan however was justified after 9/11) and opposed the Iraq war, for reasons of realpolitik. However, it’s just silly to pretend countries like Iraq or Syria are the mess they are now just because of Western plots. Sectarian divisions are inherent to those countries.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "Don’t know where you get the idea from that the main victims of Barbary pirates were Balkan countries…as far as I know, Italy was actually most severely affected, with some coastal regions living in constant terror during the early modern age"

    When I mentioned the Balkans I was including the Barbary Pirates as part of the larger Ottoman Empire since they were "Ottoman corsairs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates Nonetheless these pirates they may have terrorized Italian coastal communities but their actual impact was quite limited (comparable to Islamist terror attacks in Europe in the present day) in comparison to the wholesale slaughter by the Ottoman Janissaries in the Balkans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries or the various Christian Crusades that preceded them.

    "And while it’s pretty silly to play the “Who was aggressive first?”-game I find it striking that you totally ignore the ample evidence for Muslim imperialism during the first centuries of Islam…not just against Persia and Byzantium, but also against the Latin West. The Muslims conquered Spain, and there were Saracen raiders terrorizing the Alpine passes and killing or capturing Christian pilgrims going to Rome during the 10th century; Rome itself had already been pillaged by Saracens in 846. That was long before the crusades and any supposed blowback from Western aggression. Sorry, in world historical terms Muslims just don’t get to play the “blameless victim of Western imperialism”-card."

    Again with the strawmans. I never denied "muslim imperialism" please reread my posts and stop putting words into my mouth. I agree that it`s silly to argue "Who was aggressive first" but it wasn`t me deflecting your government`s responsibility for TODAY`S REFUGEE CRISIS in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, and other Muslim countries with "Barbary Pirates" other Muslim muslim misdeeds from medieval times (btw that I conceded numerous times) not to mention those muslim crimes u listed as horrible as they were pale in comparison to the Crusades and Inquisition. As for Persia and Byzantium, those places were mostly in Asia, so what business is it of a German if Anatolians, Semites, and Persians kill each other? But then we are back to comparing medieval crimes so let`s stick with the present day. You say u don`t want Muslim refugees in your country and I say stop interfering in the internal affairs of these countries and destabilizing them and maybe those refugees wouldn`t come? If they did come still then in my opinion your views would then be justified but until then clean your side of the street first. Oh and please read the Graham Fuller book. Fascinating reading.
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  99. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    One of you, the Osman critics, said that Germany never had colonies, this is how the issue of colonies came to be discussed. The relevance of this to the refugee crisis (you chose to label it the "migrant" crisis), is that the current stripping and pillaging of North Africa and Middle East by the West is neo-colonialism.

    How many billions of dollars did NATO humanitarian bombers steal from Gaddafi's Libya, including the billions of investments that Goldman Sax appropriated before the bombing? Some estimates say that between $180 and $300 Billion was stolen by the "humanitarians". Maybe Germany did not get a big share of the loot, but it did provide support services to the "humanitarians". Libya was left in chaos so that no organized government can lay a claim on the Libyan billions appropriated by the Western banks.

    Smashing up of countries and stealing are the root cause of the current refugee crisis that Europe is experiencing. Nobody in Europe dares mention the unmentionable - that your NATO mafia capo - the US and its boss, il capo dei capi - Israel are to blame.

    “Smashing up of countries and stealing are the root cause of the current refugee crisis that Europe is experiencing. Nobody in Europe dares mention the unmentionable – that your NATO mafia capo – the US and its boss, il capo dei capi – Israel are to blame.”

    Amen to that Kiza! Yes they dare not look in the mirror and prefer to deflect with strawman arguments and self-serving tropes like “look how generous we are to these ungrateful darkies”

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Osman, since you mentioned mirrors ...

    In this Western country where I leave they created advertisements, similar to those from Orwell's "1984": "The terrorists are around. If you see something report something". They plastered those agitprop posters all over the place. I had this idea of cutting a highly-polished piece of aluminium and covering a part of such advertisement poster, so that those who read the poster can see themselves in the mirror and report themselves as terrorists.

    Well, actually they are not terrorists, they are the sponsors of terrorism. Just look at Syria.

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  100. @Osman
    I agree Westerners in the Gulf (I consider them Western colonies) don`t get the equivalent of your measly "welfare payments" but they are treated like royalty receiving undeserved huge salaries that should be going to those hardworking Filipinos, Indians, and other Asian guest workers which is direct function of those countries being under Western indirect rule. They are treated like slaves true I agree but so are African farm workers in places like southern Italy http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1953619,00.html

    So the Gulf states are Western “colonies” now…I think there’s little sense to a discussion with you. You have that view of an all-powerful, malevolent West that’s in control of everything and oppresses everyone else…no other independent actors. That view of the world might have been one approaching reality in 1900…but today, it’s just silly.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Yes indeed they are "colonies" "satrapies" "puppet states" take your pick.

    "You have that view of an all-powerful, malevolent West that’s in control of everything and oppresses everyone else…no other independent actors"

    You are addicted to strawman arguments aren`t you. In the case of these, countries it is the West mainly my adopted country the US that runs the show before that it was the British (the French were restricted to the Levant and little Djibouti). These "royal families" were put and are kept in power with Western mainly American military might. Anyone who denies this well established fact is either deliberately being facetious or just plain ignorant of the geopolitical realities in that region. So which is it? Are u ignorant or dishonest? Keep denying reality with your strawmans buddy while those refugees keep piling up on your shores LOL!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/11859822/Britain-fuelling-war-in-Yemen-through-arms-sales-says-charity.html

    https://reported.ly/2015/10/30/exclusive-italy-bombs-saudi-arabia/

    And don`t say I didn`t warn you when those first Yemeni refugees start arriving in Europe

    , @Osman
    The only real independent nation in the Muslim World these days is Iran (and possibly Assad`s Syria). Algeria used to be but treading lightly these days with its considerable hydrocarbon resources coveted by the greedy West and because she knows she could be next on the Western regime change hit list. Especially after what happened in Libya and that the French have never forgiven them for the humiliation of the 1950/early 60s independence war and want payback. As for the rest of the Arab and Muslim World, if they are not under direct foreign military occupation they are ruled by Western sockpuppets in the form of Military generals or corrupt monarchs. That is why Syria and Yemen (and probably hezbollah in Lebanon next) are such big targets for the empire. It is a way to weaken Iran before going onto encircle Russia and China. Classic Mackinderian Great Game strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game#The_New_Great_Game
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  101. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    You are obviously ignorant of the current situation in those countries. It might have been like that in the 50s and 60s but nowadays most of the work including high end white collar work is done by Filipinos, Indians, Pakistanis, Egyptians, Lebanese. Syrians, Palestinians, and other "darkies" u love to hate so much. Actually most of the Whites there nowadays are overpaid drunk losers mostly soldier of fortune types now euphemistically renamed "military contractors".

    Yes, third worlders are used as slaves by those lovely humanitarian Arabs but ultimately without Europe and America those places would still be remote dumps full of camel humping caravan raiders.

    This is an undeniable fact.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "Yes, third worlders are used as slaves by those lovely humanitarian Arabs but ultimately without Europe and America those places would still be remote dumps full of camel humping caravan raiders.

    This is an undeniable fact"

    Aahh! Don`t u just love to see that "genetically superior European scientific brain" at work LOL!

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  102. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    "But even those were small time pin pricks (and most of the victims were the southern tier poor balkan countries anyhow not the imperialist countries of Western Europe) and could also be considered payback for European warmongering dating back thru the Crusades and as far back as Alexander the Great. "

    Don't know where you get the idea from that the main victims of Barbary pirates were Balkan countries...as far as I know, Italy was actually most severely affected, with some coastal regions living in constant terror during the early modern age. And while it's pretty silly to play the "Who was aggressive first?"-game I find it striking that you totally ignore the ample evidence for Muslim imperialism during the first centuries of Islam...not just against Persia and Byzantium, but also against the Latin West. The Muslims conquered Spain, and there were Saracen raiders terrorizing the Alpine passes and killing or capturing Christian pilgrims going to Rome during the 10th century; Rome itself had already been pillaged by Saracens in 846. That was long before the crusades and any supposed blowback from Western aggression. Sorry, in world historical terms Muslims just don't get to play the "blameless victim of Western imperialism"-card.
    As for the present: I'm against much of the West's foreign policy in the Mideast (intervention in Afghanistan however was justified after 9/11) and opposed the Iraq war, for reasons of realpolitik. However, it's just silly to pretend countries like Iraq or Syria are the mess they are now just because of Western plots. Sectarian divisions are inherent to those countries.

    “Don’t know where you get the idea from that the main victims of Barbary pirates were Balkan countries…as far as I know, Italy was actually most severely affected, with some coastal regions living in constant terror during the early modern age”

    When I mentioned the Balkans I was including the Barbary Pirates as part of the larger Ottoman Empire since they were “Ottoman corsairs” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates Nonetheless these pirates they may have terrorized Italian coastal communities but their actual impact was quite limited (comparable to Islamist terror attacks in Europe in the present day) in comparison to the wholesale slaughter by the Ottoman Janissaries in the Balkans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries or the various Christian Crusades that preceded them.

    “And while it’s pretty silly to play the “Who was aggressive first?”-game I find it striking that you totally ignore the ample evidence for Muslim imperialism during the first centuries of Islam…not just against Persia and Byzantium, but also against the Latin West. The Muslims conquered Spain, and there were Saracen raiders terrorizing the Alpine passes and killing or capturing Christian pilgrims going to Rome during the 10th century; Rome itself had already been pillaged by Saracens in 846. That was long before the crusades and any supposed blowback from Western aggression. Sorry, in world historical terms Muslims just don’t get to play the “blameless victim of Western imperialism”-card.”

    Again with the strawmans. I never denied “muslim imperialism” please reread my posts and stop putting words into my mouth. I agree that it`s silly to argue “Who was aggressive first” but it wasn`t me deflecting your government`s responsibility for TODAY`S REFUGEE CRISIS in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, and other Muslim countries with “Barbary Pirates” other Muslim muslim misdeeds from medieval times (btw that I conceded numerous times) not to mention those muslim crimes u listed as horrible as they were pale in comparison to the Crusades and Inquisition. As for Persia and Byzantium, those places were mostly in Asia, so what business is it of a German if Anatolians, Semites, and Persians kill each other? But then we are back to comparing medieval crimes so let`s stick with the present day. You say u don`t want Muslim refugees in your country and I say stop interfering in the internal affairs of these countries and destabilizing them and maybe those refugees wouldn`t come? If they did come still then in my opinion your views would then be justified but until then clean your side of the street first. Oh and please read the Graham Fuller book. Fascinating reading.

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    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    Europe would always stand tall as a glowing beacon of benefits and freebies to the Third Worlders who look on in greedy stupified wonder ("why can't we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?"); sure didn't hordes of Pakistanis migrate to England in the 1950s along with West Indians? All in "search of a better life".
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  103. Osman says:

    “As for the present: I’m against much of the West’s foreign policy in the Mideast (intervention in Afghanistan however was justified after 9/11) and opposed the Iraq war, for reasons of realpolitik. However, it’s just silly to pretend countries like Iraq or Syria are the mess they are now just because of Western plots. Sectarian divisions are inherent to those countries”

    Why was intervention in Afghanistan justified? No Afghan attacked the US on 911 the attackers were all Arabs mostly Saudi. So why not attack Saudi Arabia instead? You might get my support and that of many Muslims for that actually LOL! Having been in Afghanistan I can assure you many of those peasants who took arms against me and my guys were mostly illiterate Pashtun farmers who had never heard of the 911 attacks they just didn`t like a bunch of arrogant foreigners swaggering around their villages with guns killing their people and dragging them away for torture. As for the sectarian divisions they were deliberately stoked to divide and conquer http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington Fyi I did tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It is not silly to observe that these countries were way better off before your arrogant imperialist invasions even with their sectarian divisions. The more important question is what gives you people the right to invade these countries in the first place? Your individual opposition to your government`s policy is meaningless if u keep making excuses for it like you are doing right now.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    "Why was intervention in Afghanistan justified? No Afghan attacked the US on 911 the attackers were all Arabs mostly Saudi. "

    Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? Under those circumstances intervention in Afghanistan was justified. And do you seriously want to claim there would be less "refugees" coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule...how is that a desirable outcome?
    As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it...my country didn't participate, and I don't feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I'm also against attempts to overthrow Assad's government in Syria...as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It's not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren't accountable in the way they should be.
    But there's probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I'd actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt...I'm appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen or for the Gulf states' Islamist projects in Syria. It's just that I don't agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into "white race is the cancer of history"-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you're disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided.
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  104. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    So the Gulf states are Western "colonies" now...I think there's little sense to a discussion with you. You have that view of an all-powerful, malevolent West that's in control of everything and oppresses everyone else...no other independent actors. That view of the world might have been one approaching reality in 1900...but today, it's just silly.

    Yes indeed they are “colonies” “satrapies” “puppet states” take your pick.

    “You have that view of an all-powerful, malevolent West that’s in control of everything and oppresses everyone else…no other independent actors”

    You are addicted to strawman arguments aren`t you. In the case of these, countries it is the West mainly my adopted country the US that runs the show before that it was the British (the French were restricted to the Levant and little Djibouti). These “royal families” were put and are kept in power with Western mainly American military might. Anyone who denies this well established fact is either deliberately being facetious or just plain ignorant of the geopolitical realities in that region. So which is it? Are u ignorant or dishonest? Keep denying reality with your strawmans buddy while those refugees keep piling up on your shores LOL!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/11859822/Britain-fuelling-war-in-Yemen-through-arms-sales-says-charity.html

    https://reported.ly/2015/10/30/exclusive-italy-bombs-saudi-arabia/

    And don`t say I didn`t warn you when those first Yemeni refugees start arriving in Europe

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I'm against Western support for those disgusting Gulf states, but they aren't satrapies or puppet states in any meaningful sense. No, they're using their relationship with the West for their own advantage and are in fact promoting anti-Western, Islamist ideas throughout the world. That dimension is totally lacking from your analysis.
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  105. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Yes, third worlders are used as slaves by those lovely humanitarian Arabs but ultimately without Europe and America those places would still be remote dumps full of camel humping caravan raiders.

    This is an undeniable fact.

    “Yes, third worlders are used as slaves by those lovely humanitarian Arabs but ultimately without Europe and America those places would still be remote dumps full of camel humping caravan raiders.

    This is an undeniable fact”

    Aahh! Don`t u just love to see that “genetically superior European scientific brain” at work LOL!

    Read More
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  106. @Osman
    "As for the present: I’m against much of the West’s foreign policy in the Mideast (intervention in Afghanistan however was justified after 9/11) and opposed the Iraq war, for reasons of realpolitik. However, it’s just silly to pretend countries like Iraq or Syria are the mess they are now just because of Western plots. Sectarian divisions are inherent to those countries"

    Why was intervention in Afghanistan justified? No Afghan attacked the US on 911 the attackers were all Arabs mostly Saudi. So why not attack Saudi Arabia instead? You might get my support and that of many Muslims for that actually LOL! Having been in Afghanistan I can assure you many of those peasants who took arms against me and my guys were mostly illiterate Pashtun farmers who had never heard of the 911 attacks they just didn`t like a bunch of arrogant foreigners swaggering around their villages with guns killing their people and dragging them away for torture. As for the sectarian divisions they were deliberately stoked to divide and conquer http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington Fyi I did tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It is not silly to observe that these countries were way better off before your arrogant imperialist invasions even with their sectarian divisions. The more important question is what gives you people the right to invade these countries in the first place? Your individual opposition to your government`s policy is meaningless if u keep making excuses for it like you are doing right now.

    “Why was intervention in Afghanistan justified? No Afghan attacked the US on 911 the attackers were all Arabs mostly Saudi. ”

    Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? Under those circumstances intervention in Afghanistan was justified. And do you seriously want to claim there would be less “refugees” coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule…how is that a desirable outcome?
    As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it…my country didn’t participate, and I don’t feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I’m also against attempts to overthrow Assad’s government in Syria…as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It’s not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren’t accountable in the way they should be.
    But there’s probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I’d actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt…I’m appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen or for the Gulf states’ Islamist projects in Syria. It’s just that I don’t agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into “white race is the cancer of history”-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you’re disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? "

    That is absolute rubbish. The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too? The Taliban as cruel and regressive and stupid as they are were only hosting that Saudi spoiled brat Osama but had no knowledge of these attacks and were surprised as anyone else when it happened. They asked for evidence before they would hand him over but the arrogant Bush administration issued an ultimatum that any proud Pashtun tribesman would refuse because they really wanted to pound some "ragheads" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    " And do you seriously want to claim there would be less “refugees” coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule…how is that a desirable outcome?"

    Again with the strawman arguments LOL! In the short-term probably not but in the long term with the help of a comprehensive agreement including all Afghan factions (Taliban included) and regional actors like Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China, and India, absolutely yes because I`ve seen it happen in other post-conflict countries. If majority of Afghans prefer living under Taliban rule why is it any of your business as long as they mind their on business? Which btw they were doing prior to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan with even trips to Houston to discuss a pipeline route with disgraced energy firm Enron http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/the_enron-cheney-taliban_connection

    "As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it…my country didn’t participate, and I don’t feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I’m also against attempts to overthrow Assad’s government in Syria…as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It’s not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren’t accountable in the way they should be"

    Do u think Iraqis or other people killed by German made weapons or killed by your NATO allies or that bases in Germany have been used as critical logistics hubs for these operations care that you as an individual opposed it and blame it all on your so called "idiotic transatlantic elites"? That is a weak cop out. You elect your leaders so they are very much accountable to you. So quit making weak excuses and put up or shut up about your so called "opposition" to these policies and for Chrissakes stop whining about refugees so much. The choice is pretty clear.

    "But there’s probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I’d actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt…I’m appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen or for the Gulf states’ Islamist projects in Syria. It’s just that I don’t agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into “white race is the cancer of history”-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you’re disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided."

    Again with your stupid strawman arguments and "white race is the cancer of history" do u pull these phony quotes out of your ass. I said no such thing but gave documented evidence of your government's conduct but you choose to dishonestly hide behind strawman arguments and putting fake words in my mouth instead of owning up to your govt`s policies and instead choose to take it out on the weakest among us, the refugees. Shameless and cowardly! It is not enough for you to just sit behind your computer and vaguely condemn your leaders and do nothing to change these policies and instead you willingly choose to condemn and target poor refugees who had nothing to do with starting this problem. Why do you target the poor refugees who are but a mere symptom of your govt`s policies instead of gathering up your balls and challenging your elites? Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am like some people here. Otherwise it has been nice chatting with you I wish u as an individual the best in your future life. Goodbye German Reader.

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  107. @Osman
    Yes indeed they are "colonies" "satrapies" "puppet states" take your pick.

    "You have that view of an all-powerful, malevolent West that’s in control of everything and oppresses everyone else…no other independent actors"

    You are addicted to strawman arguments aren`t you. In the case of these, countries it is the West mainly my adopted country the US that runs the show before that it was the British (the French were restricted to the Levant and little Djibouti). These "royal families" were put and are kept in power with Western mainly American military might. Anyone who denies this well established fact is either deliberately being facetious or just plain ignorant of the geopolitical realities in that region. So which is it? Are u ignorant or dishonest? Keep denying reality with your strawmans buddy while those refugees keep piling up on your shores LOL!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/11859822/Britain-fuelling-war-in-Yemen-through-arms-sales-says-charity.html

    https://reported.ly/2015/10/30/exclusive-italy-bombs-saudi-arabia/

    And don`t say I didn`t warn you when those first Yemeni refugees start arriving in Europe

    I’m against Western support for those disgusting Gulf states, but they aren’t satrapies or puppet states in any meaningful sense. No, they’re using their relationship with the West for their own advantage and are in fact promoting anti-Western, Islamist ideas throughout the world. That dimension is totally lacking from your analysis.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "I’m against Western support for those disgusting Gulf states, but they aren’t satrapies or puppet states in any meaningful sense. No, they’re using their relationship with the West for their own advantage and are in fact promoting anti-Western, Islamist ideas throughout the world. That dimension is totally lacking from your analysis."

    I just love it when defenders of Western imperialism try to pass the buck and blame their little midget puppets. I think you are not aware of the histories of these "royal families" and how they were groomed for power by mainly the British colonialists and STILL KEPT IN POWER by numerous Western military bases in Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and UAE. There relation to the West is that of a Boss and obedient servant. Tell me when have these so called "independent" govts ever went against the West on any significant geopolitical policy program? Almost never. As for the Islamist, it is well known fact that it was Western imperialists who encouraged their puppets to spread these ideas not as "anti-western" in any meaningful sense but to disrupt and destroy anti-imperialist secular socialist and nationalist movements in the Arab and Muslim World. To this day these so called Islamists you call "anti-western" are the Empire`s favorite tool against real anti-imperialists in the region like Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah . Of course sometimes these useful idiots wander of the reservation and believe their own propaganda but most often they stick to the program and never really represent a threat to their Western and Zionist patrons. Nowadays these guys are even openly and shamelessly collaborating with the Zionists http://www.mintpressnews.com/the-alliance-between-israel-and-saudi-arabia/209548/ and https://news.vice.com/video/a-syrian-fighter-in-an-israeli-hospital-excerpt-from-the-war-next-door

    So much for your "anti-western Islamism" LOL!
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  108. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    So the Gulf states are Western "colonies" now...I think there's little sense to a discussion with you. You have that view of an all-powerful, malevolent West that's in control of everything and oppresses everyone else...no other independent actors. That view of the world might have been one approaching reality in 1900...but today, it's just silly.

    The only real independent nation in the Muslim World these days is Iran (and possibly Assad`s Syria). Algeria used to be but treading lightly these days with its considerable hydrocarbon resources coveted by the greedy West and because she knows she could be next on the Western regime change hit list. Especially after what happened in Libya and that the French have never forgiven them for the humiliation of the 1950/early 60s independence war and want payback. As for the rest of the Arab and Muslim World, if they are not under direct foreign military occupation they are ruled by Western sockpuppets in the form of Military generals or corrupt monarchs. That is why Syria and Yemen (and probably hezbollah in Lebanon next) are such big targets for the empire. It is a way to weaken Iran before going onto encircle Russia and China. Classic Mackinderian Great Game strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game#The_New_Great_Game

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  109. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    I'm against Western support for those disgusting Gulf states, but they aren't satrapies or puppet states in any meaningful sense. No, they're using their relationship with the West for their own advantage and are in fact promoting anti-Western, Islamist ideas throughout the world. That dimension is totally lacking from your analysis.

    “I’m against Western support for those disgusting Gulf states, but they aren’t satrapies or puppet states in any meaningful sense. No, they’re using their relationship with the West for their own advantage and are in fact promoting anti-Western, Islamist ideas throughout the world. That dimension is totally lacking from your analysis.”

    I just love it when defenders of Western imperialism try to pass the buck and blame their little midget puppets. I think you are not aware of the histories of these “royal families” and how they were groomed for power by mainly the British colonialists and STILL KEPT IN POWER by numerous Western military bases in Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and UAE. There relation to the West is that of a Boss and obedient servant. Tell me when have these so called “independent” govts ever went against the West on any significant geopolitical policy program? Almost never. As for the Islamist, it is well known fact that it was Western imperialists who encouraged their puppets to spread these ideas not as “anti-western” in any meaningful sense but to disrupt and destroy anti-imperialist secular socialist and nationalist movements in the Arab and Muslim World. To this day these so called Islamists you call “anti-western” are the Empire`s favorite tool against real anti-imperialists in the region like Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah . Of course sometimes these useful idiots wander of the reservation and believe their own propaganda but most often they stick to the program and never really represent a threat to their Western and Zionist patrons. Nowadays these guys are even openly and shamelessly collaborating with the Zionists http://www.mintpressnews.com/the-alliance-between-israel-and-saudi-arabia/209548/ and https://news.vice.com/video/a-syrian-fighter-in-an-israeli-hospital-excerpt-from-the-war-next-door

    So much for your “anti-western Islamism” LOL!

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  110. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    "Why was intervention in Afghanistan justified? No Afghan attacked the US on 911 the attackers were all Arabs mostly Saudi. "

    Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? Under those circumstances intervention in Afghanistan was justified. And do you seriously want to claim there would be less "refugees" coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule...how is that a desirable outcome?
    As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it...my country didn't participate, and I don't feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I'm also against attempts to overthrow Assad's government in Syria...as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It's not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren't accountable in the way they should be.
    But there's probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I'd actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt...I'm appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen or for the Gulf states' Islamist projects in Syria. It's just that I don't agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into "white race is the cancer of history"-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you're disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided.

    “Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? ”

    That is absolute rubbish. The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too? The Taliban as cruel and regressive and stupid as they are were only hosting that Saudi spoiled brat Osama but had no knowledge of these attacks and were surprised as anyone else when it happened. They asked for evidence before they would hand him over but the arrogant Bush administration issued an ultimatum that any proud Pashtun tribesman would refuse because they really wanted to pound some “ragheads” http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    ” And do you seriously want to claim there would be less “refugees” coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule…how is that a desirable outcome?”

    Again with the strawman arguments LOL! In the short-term probably not but in the long term with the help of a comprehensive agreement including all Afghan factions (Taliban included) and regional actors like Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China, and India, absolutely yes because I`ve seen it happen in other post-conflict countries. If majority of Afghans prefer living under Taliban rule why is it any of your business as long as they mind their on business? Which btw they were doing prior to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan with even trips to Houston to discuss a pipeline route with disgraced energy firm Enron http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/the_enron-cheney-taliban_connection

    “As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it…my country didn’t participate, and I don’t feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I’m also against attempts to overthrow Assad’s government in Syria…as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It’s not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren’t accountable in the way they should be”

    Do u think Iraqis or other people killed by German made weapons or killed by your NATO allies or that bases in Germany have been used as critical logistics hubs for these operations care that you as an individual opposed it and blame it all on your so called “idiotic transatlantic elites”? That is a weak cop out. You elect your leaders so they are very much accountable to you. So quit making weak excuses and put up or shut up about your so called “opposition” to these policies and for Chrissakes stop whining about refugees so much. The choice is pretty clear.

    “But there’s probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I’d actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt…I’m appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen or for the Gulf states’ Islamist projects in Syria. It’s just that I don’t agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into “white race is the cancer of history”-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you’re disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided.”

    Again with your stupid strawman arguments and “white race is the cancer of history” do u pull these phony quotes out of your ass. I said no such thing but gave documented evidence of your government’s conduct but you choose to dishonestly hide behind strawman arguments and putting fake words in my mouth instead of owning up to your govt`s policies and instead choose to take it out on the weakest among us, the refugees. Shameless and cowardly! It is not enough for you to just sit behind your computer and vaguely condemn your leaders and do nothing to change these policies and instead you willingly choose to condemn and target poor refugees who had nothing to do with starting this problem. Why do you target the poor refugees who are but a mere symptom of your govt`s policies instead of gathering up your balls and challenging your elites? Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am like some people here. Otherwise it has been nice chatting with you I wish u as an individual the best in your future life. Goodbye German Reader.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too?
     
    ditto
    , @German_reader
    Well, you do raise quite a few valid points, undoubtedly the US and other Western powers have supported Islamist movements against secular nationalists in the past, and still have an unholy alliance with the Gulf states and their Islamist allies. I think that's a misguided and morally bankrupt policy. I also think the Iraq war and Western meddling in Syria are wrong. But I can't agree with your view that the West is the root of all evil in the Islamic world. About Afghanistan: I certainly would be happy if my country had nothing to do with that place anymore, and the intervention there seems to have been a failure. But you're asking what would be so bad when the Taliban are back in power...I suppose it wouldn't be all that great for women and more secular-minded people. Of course, if a majority of Afghans wants to live in an Islamist theocracy nobody can stop them...but I'm doubtful if it will really be better than the present state.
    And while I won't pretend that I have much sympathy for most "refugees", my true loathing is reserved for the Western elites who enable their immigration (and who also favour Western interventions in the Islamic world)...so I don't think my anger is misdirected.
    Can't agree with your view of things, but then I haven't had your life experiences (and you haven't had mine). I wish you all the best as well.
    , @Lupa
    Hey mr disillusioned war veteran, since you entered the discussion you've posted like 25 comments.

    I'm sure you have some valuable insights, but maybe condense it a little for courtesy?

    Also: "Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am" is quite funny-sounding coming from a man whose only explanation for any injustice anywhere ever, is 19th century colonialism by Europeans. "LOL" indeed
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  111. annamaria says:
    @Osman
    Let`s take your statements one by one:

    You said: "The alleged Soviet/Russian “colonialism” in the _stans has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate and higher standard of living for all the _stans that had the “misfortune” of having been “colonized” by Soviets/Russians."

    Okay I will concede for the sake of argument since I`m not an expert on literacy stats in the Former Soviet Republic, that Russian colonization of these countries "has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate" (a suspiciously high number, 99% reminds of those "elections" we used to have in my country were the dictator would always win with a margin of 99% unopposed). So does that justify invading and occupying other people`s countries because you claim to have given them a "higher standard of living"? That smacks of that old colonialist canard "mission civilisatrice" a self-serving excuse to invade and pillage other countries if there ever was one. Somehow I don`t think you are the most credible interlocutor on this issue considering you sound like a Slavic neo-nazi type. And I`m sceptical Tsarist Russia had the best interests of Central Asians in mind when they invaded and brutally colonized and dispossessed these people http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch09sr.htm

    "One _stan that did not get the “horror” of being “colonized” by thems Russkies – Afghanistan – is a backwards, medieval cesspool."

    I think Afghans remember that history a little differently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR7xwzjkxbY It maybe a "medieval cesspool" but it is their "medieval cesspool" not yours. No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them. It seems some of you here complain loudly about "refugee and migrant invasion" into your countries but strangely indifferent and even proud of your REAL invasions of other countries. I guess that is part of your White European "exceptionalism" eh? LOL

    "why aren’t those “oppressed”, “colonized” citizens of _stans not going to work in the countries of their fellow Muslim brethren, but are eager to go and find employment in the homeland of of their Christian or Atheist “colonizers” and “oppressors”."

    Well maybe because those "muslim brethren" of theirs did not invade and occupy them and still dominate them militarily and economically and in the case of the Caucuses just outright annexed entire territories and in one particular horrible case committed genocide against the Circassians of Sochi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4lxzZjkhs So if you don`t want them in precious Moscow and St. Petersburg then get out of Grozny and Dushanbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit. Until then lump it buddy u go there they come to you. It`s as simple as that.

    "The SSR _stans have been independent since 1991: why do their citizens need to humiliate themselves working for those dastardly Roossian colonizers ?
    Why not find employment in prosperous Islamic countries that were not colonized by those evil Russians.
    Lots of employment opportunities in Afghanistan, Pakistan: Right ? Osman.

    Don’t avoid the question: answer it.
    Why are the “oppressed” streaming towards their “oppressors” and “colonizers”, Osman ?"

    This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans. As I have already said for the umpteenth time these countries are under the complete military and economic domination of Russia not Pakistan or any other "muslim brethren" (see the above link for a list of Russian military bases in Central Asia) and I`m not even talking about the annexed republics like Dagestan, Chechnya, and Tatarstan. So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now. I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin, who realizes the futility of Russia making enemies on its eastern and southern flank with moronic racist tropes like yours while trying to fend off Western encroachment on its Western borders. Hence why Russia is busy making friends in the more independent minded Muslim world (Assad, Iran, Hezbollah, Algeria, Egypt`s Sisi, Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya, and even the Stans including Pakistan btw. If Russia followed your advice they would fall right into the trap set by the Empire with all those disgruntled muslims in Russia joining Western supported jihadi outfits like ISIS and what not. I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.

    “No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them.”
    To be fair, the Soviets’ introductions to Afghanistan (please, be mindful of the ethnic composition of the Soviets) were incomparably more beneficial than the American policies. Besides, the Soviet Union’ invasion itself pursued the clear strategic goals to protect Soviet interests on the Union’ borders. The overall logic of your comment is valid, yet the specifics show irrefutably that the Soviets had tried to improve the lives of the ordinary Afghanis, whereas the Americans have been trying to improve the base line of the well-connected war profiteers for the expense of the ordinary Afghanis
    Avery: “By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs.”
    Compare that to the current state of medieval oppression of Afghani women and the total carnage wrecked by the US agains Afghanistan.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "To be fair, the Soviets’ introductions to Afghanistan (please, be mindful of the ethnic composition of the Soviets) were incomparably more beneficial than the American policies. Besides, the Soviet Union’ invasion itself pursued the clear strategic goals to protect Soviet interests on the Union’ borders. The overall logic of your comment is valid, yet the specifics show irrefutably that the Soviets had tried to improve the lives of the ordinary Afghanis, whereas the Americans have been trying to improve the base line of the well-connected war profiteers for the expense of the ordinary Afghanis"

    Let`s not kid ourselves muslim people had very little power in the Soviet Union. Okay fine Soviets brought some material benefits to Afghanistan but does that justify invading and occupying them and killing over a million Afghans? I think Afghans would beg to differ and would rather have their million people alive than have those "soviet benefits". The point is not which form of imperialism was better for the Afghans but to leave the Afghans alone. To be fair, the Soviets had a legitimate security fear on their southern flank due to the West`s machinations with Islamist groups (see Brezinski and his machinations) but in hindsight to don`t you think the Soviets were stupid to fall into such a transparent trap set for them by guys like Brezinski? Anyway does any of this justify Avery`s racist hatred towards powerless Central Asian migrant workers?
    , @Kiza
    Fantastically succinct comparison:
    "By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs.
    Compare that to the current state of medieval oppression of Afghani women and the total carnage wrecked by the US against Afghanistan."

    And you did not even mention the 10-fold increase in opium production in Afghanistan under US occupation.

    But controlling the discourse, the Western media create alternative/opposite/virtual reality. Western achievements in country engineering. The villain is a victim and victim is a villain, etc.
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  112. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    I`m touched that u want to pay reparations for your genocide against the Hereros but I doubt u left many surviving descendants to receive it but I guess u could always give it to the govt of Namibia. Anyhow the gesture is nice but it would be better if your governments changed their imperialist foreign policies that lead to such tragedies in the first place. I believe that was the Ottoman Turks with the Barbary Pirates being their two bit vassals at the time and I have already conceded that the Turks were imperialists and monstrous ones in their time. But even those were small time pin pricks (and most of the victims were the southern tier poor balkan countries anyhow not the imperialist countries of Western Europe) and could also be considered payback for European warmongering dating back thru the Crusades and as far back as Alexander the Great. It`s really hard to find an equivalent level of sustained level of violence emanating from the East if that were the case the West would have had no time to regroup in those years you call the late dark ages to the renaissance and "enlightenment". I recommend this book if you are interested on that topic http://grahamefuller.com/world-without-islam/ You act as if the "age of imperialism" is over. Hello where have u been since post cold war era let alone the shit that went on during the cold war itself? Do u think there was no imperialist meddling in the NATO overthrow/murder of Gaddafi in Libya? Or the ongoing military occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan and the drone bombings by the West and its allies in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen? Not to mention all the bases scattered around the Muslim world? And I even didn`t mention the obvious case of Syria? Germany as a member of NATO, ally of the US and host to numerous American military bases is neck deep in this mess? So are u denying all these obvious facts? Or just playing dumb like a child with his fingers in his ears? Most of these Muslim refugees you hate so much come from these same countries you have destabilized. So why are you surprised that they show up on your doorstep? If u don`t want these problems how about minding your own business and stopping all these foolish imperialist military adventures that are causing you uncomfort and destroying these countries. I will quote Putin from his latest UN speech "Now Do u realize what u have done?" That is a question that is reverbating around the world.

    Osman, Muslims have been invading and pillaging Europe centuries before the Pope launched the first Crusade. When do you think Iberia and Sicily were invaded by the Moors? 8th century!!! That’s a full three hundred years before the Crusades began.

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    When do you think Iberia and Sicily were [was] invaded by the Moors? 8th century!!!
     
    You're referring to that era that Jews call their Golden Age, yes?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain
    , @Osman
    If we follow your imperialist logic "we were bringing them civilization" and all that jazz, the Moors were doing the Iberians and Sicilians a favor by pulling them out of the ignorance and medieval superstition http://www.spainthenandnow.com/spanish-history/cordoba-historical-overview/default_41.aspx
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  113. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    "Don’t know where you get the idea from that the main victims of Barbary pirates were Balkan countries…as far as I know, Italy was actually most severely affected, with some coastal regions living in constant terror during the early modern age"

    When I mentioned the Balkans I was including the Barbary Pirates as part of the larger Ottoman Empire since they were "Ottoman corsairs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates Nonetheless these pirates they may have terrorized Italian coastal communities but their actual impact was quite limited (comparable to Islamist terror attacks in Europe in the present day) in comparison to the wholesale slaughter by the Ottoman Janissaries in the Balkans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries or the various Christian Crusades that preceded them.

    "And while it’s pretty silly to play the “Who was aggressive first?”-game I find it striking that you totally ignore the ample evidence for Muslim imperialism during the first centuries of Islam…not just against Persia and Byzantium, but also against the Latin West. The Muslims conquered Spain, and there were Saracen raiders terrorizing the Alpine passes and killing or capturing Christian pilgrims going to Rome during the 10th century; Rome itself had already been pillaged by Saracens in 846. That was long before the crusades and any supposed blowback from Western aggression. Sorry, in world historical terms Muslims just don’t get to play the “blameless victim of Western imperialism”-card."

    Again with the strawmans. I never denied "muslim imperialism" please reread my posts and stop putting words into my mouth. I agree that it`s silly to argue "Who was aggressive first" but it wasn`t me deflecting your government`s responsibility for TODAY`S REFUGEE CRISIS in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, and other Muslim countries with "Barbary Pirates" other Muslim muslim misdeeds from medieval times (btw that I conceded numerous times) not to mention those muslim crimes u listed as horrible as they were pale in comparison to the Crusades and Inquisition. As for Persia and Byzantium, those places were mostly in Asia, so what business is it of a German if Anatolians, Semites, and Persians kill each other? But then we are back to comparing medieval crimes so let`s stick with the present day. You say u don`t want Muslim refugees in your country and I say stop interfering in the internal affairs of these countries and destabilizing them and maybe those refugees wouldn`t come? If they did come still then in my opinion your views would then be justified but until then clean your side of the street first. Oh and please read the Graham Fuller book. Fascinating reading.

    Europe would always stand tall as a glowing beacon of benefits and freebies to the Third Worlders who look on in greedy stupified wonder (“why can’t we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?”); sure didn’t hordes of Pakistanis migrate to England in the 1950s along with West Indians? All in “search of a better life”.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    “why can’t we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?”
     
    They left Pakistan without visiting Isfehan, , or its Armenian cathedral http://www.360cities.net/image/isfahan-vank-cathedral-iran-armenian-church; or Yazd or Tehran??
    , @Osman
    "Europe would always stand tall as a glowing beacon of benefits and freebies to the Third Worlders who look on in greedy stupified wonder (“why can’t we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?”); sure didn’t hordes of Pakistanis migrate to England in the 1950s along with West Indians? All in “search of a better life”.

    Is this what passes for intellectualism in white supremacist circles these days? LOL! Yes I would call the wholesale looting of the Indian subcontinent by the British a "freebie" (Pakistan was a part of the British Raj colony if you are historically challenged) and centuries of free West Indian slave labor definitely qualifies as a "freebie". So these people have every right to migrate to England. England took their stuff. Also I would remind you it was the English who "invited" more like recruited these people to come over as cheap labor in order rebuild after WW2 (ditto for the rest of Western Europe). Not to mention lots of these people were forced to fight and die for your imperialist Wars especially Pakistanis and West Indian (my own grandfather fought in Burma with the King`s African Rifle Regiment and unlike me he didn`t enlist voluntarily but was conscripted). Their resources and labor helped build your precious cities "honey" so why are u complaining now? Talking about "ungrateful". Jeesh! LOL

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  114. @Osman
    "Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? "

    That is absolute rubbish. The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too? The Taliban as cruel and regressive and stupid as they are were only hosting that Saudi spoiled brat Osama but had no knowledge of these attacks and were surprised as anyone else when it happened. They asked for evidence before they would hand him over but the arrogant Bush administration issued an ultimatum that any proud Pashtun tribesman would refuse because they really wanted to pound some "ragheads" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    " And do you seriously want to claim there would be less “refugees” coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule…how is that a desirable outcome?"

    Again with the strawman arguments LOL! In the short-term probably not but in the long term with the help of a comprehensive agreement including all Afghan factions (Taliban included) and regional actors like Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China, and India, absolutely yes because I`ve seen it happen in other post-conflict countries. If majority of Afghans prefer living under Taliban rule why is it any of your business as long as they mind their on business? Which btw they were doing prior to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan with even trips to Houston to discuss a pipeline route with disgraced energy firm Enron http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/the_enron-cheney-taliban_connection

    "As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it…my country didn’t participate, and I don’t feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I’m also against attempts to overthrow Assad’s government in Syria…as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It’s not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren’t accountable in the way they should be"

    Do u think Iraqis or other people killed by German made weapons or killed by your NATO allies or that bases in Germany have been used as critical logistics hubs for these operations care that you as an individual opposed it and blame it all on your so called "idiotic transatlantic elites"? That is a weak cop out. You elect your leaders so they are very much accountable to you. So quit making weak excuses and put up or shut up about your so called "opposition" to these policies and for Chrissakes stop whining about refugees so much. The choice is pretty clear.

    "But there’s probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I’d actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt…I’m appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen or for the Gulf states’ Islamist projects in Syria. It’s just that I don’t agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into “white race is the cancer of history”-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you’re disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided."

    Again with your stupid strawman arguments and "white race is the cancer of history" do u pull these phony quotes out of your ass. I said no such thing but gave documented evidence of your government's conduct but you choose to dishonestly hide behind strawman arguments and putting fake words in my mouth instead of owning up to your govt`s policies and instead choose to take it out on the weakest among us, the refugees. Shameless and cowardly! It is not enough for you to just sit behind your computer and vaguely condemn your leaders and do nothing to change these policies and instead you willingly choose to condemn and target poor refugees who had nothing to do with starting this problem. Why do you target the poor refugees who are but a mere symptom of your govt`s policies instead of gathering up your balls and challenging your elites? Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am like some people here. Otherwise it has been nice chatting with you I wish u as an individual the best in your future life. Goodbye German Reader.

    The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too?

    ditto

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    John Pepper and the American Committee for East-West Accord (ACEWA)

    A little OT, but I want to introduce. On Wednesday, ACEWA held a briefing in the House of Representatives, "The Crisis in US-Russia Relations, from Ukraine to Syria: Is Congress Overlooking its Causes and Potential Solutions?". (This will be available, if not video, at least as a transcript.) Totally sane, middle-of-the-road diplomatic stuff, but groundbreaking that it happened at all. And since our MSM and politicians -like Hillary- have NOT been sane or diplomatic, you could call it revolutionary.

    http://eastwestaccord.com/

    John Pepper was new to me, and what a breath of fresh air, a really decent guy. Here's a piece by him. In a couple places I'm not sure if he's giving his own opinion or that of the author he's reviewing.

    http://pepperspectives.blogspot.ru/2015/10/reflections-on-rise-and-reign-of.html
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  115. @Kat Grey
    Osman, Muslims have been invading and pillaging Europe centuries before the Pope launched the first Crusade. When do you think Iberia and Sicily were invaded by the Moors? 8th century!!! That's a full three hundred years before the Crusades began.

    When do you think Iberia and Sicily were [was] invaded by the Moors? 8th century!!!

    You’re referring to that era that Jews call their Golden Age, yes?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain

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  116. @Osman
    "Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? "

    That is absolute rubbish. The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too? The Taliban as cruel and regressive and stupid as they are were only hosting that Saudi spoiled brat Osama but had no knowledge of these attacks and were surprised as anyone else when it happened. They asked for evidence before they would hand him over but the arrogant Bush administration issued an ultimatum that any proud Pashtun tribesman would refuse because they really wanted to pound some "ragheads" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    " And do you seriously want to claim there would be less “refugees” coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule…how is that a desirable outcome?"

    Again with the strawman arguments LOL! In the short-term probably not but in the long term with the help of a comprehensive agreement including all Afghan factions (Taliban included) and regional actors like Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China, and India, absolutely yes because I`ve seen it happen in other post-conflict countries. If majority of Afghans prefer living under Taliban rule why is it any of your business as long as they mind their on business? Which btw they were doing prior to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan with even trips to Houston to discuss a pipeline route with disgraced energy firm Enron http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/the_enron-cheney-taliban_connection

    "As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it…my country didn’t participate, and I don’t feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I’m also against attempts to overthrow Assad’s government in Syria…as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It’s not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren’t accountable in the way they should be"

    Do u think Iraqis or other people killed by German made weapons or killed by your NATO allies or that bases in Germany have been used as critical logistics hubs for these operations care that you as an individual opposed it and blame it all on your so called "idiotic transatlantic elites"? That is a weak cop out. You elect your leaders so they are very much accountable to you. So quit making weak excuses and put up or shut up about your so called "opposition" to these policies and for Chrissakes stop whining about refugees so much. The choice is pretty clear.

    "But there’s probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I’d actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt…I’m appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen or for the Gulf states’ Islamist projects in Syria. It’s just that I don’t agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into “white race is the cancer of history”-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you’re disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided."

    Again with your stupid strawman arguments and "white race is the cancer of history" do u pull these phony quotes out of your ass. I said no such thing but gave documented evidence of your government's conduct but you choose to dishonestly hide behind strawman arguments and putting fake words in my mouth instead of owning up to your govt`s policies and instead choose to take it out on the weakest among us, the refugees. Shameless and cowardly! It is not enough for you to just sit behind your computer and vaguely condemn your leaders and do nothing to change these policies and instead you willingly choose to condemn and target poor refugees who had nothing to do with starting this problem. Why do you target the poor refugees who are but a mere symptom of your govt`s policies instead of gathering up your balls and challenging your elites? Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am like some people here. Otherwise it has been nice chatting with you I wish u as an individual the best in your future life. Goodbye German Reader.

    Well, you do raise quite a few valid points, undoubtedly the US and other Western powers have supported Islamist movements against secular nationalists in the past, and still have an unholy alliance with the Gulf states and their Islamist allies. I think that’s a misguided and morally bankrupt policy. I also think the Iraq war and Western meddling in Syria are wrong. But I can’t agree with your view that the West is the root of all evil in the Islamic world. About Afghanistan: I certainly would be happy if my country had nothing to do with that place anymore, and the intervention there seems to have been a failure. But you’re asking what would be so bad when the Taliban are back in power…I suppose it wouldn’t be all that great for women and more secular-minded people. Of course, if a majority of Afghans wants to live in an Islamist theocracy nobody can stop them…but I’m doubtful if it will really be better than the present state.
    And while I won’t pretend that I have much sympathy for most “refugees”, my true loathing is reserved for the Western elites who enable their immigration (and who also favour Western interventions in the Islamic world)…so I don’t think my anger is misdirected.
    Can’t agree with your view of things, but then I haven’t had your life experiences (and you haven’t had mine). I wish you all the best as well.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Let us come back to the discussion on what caused the current flood of refugees into Europe. The haughty discussion of who invaded who first in the 8th century is a total digression. The question who stole Ghaddafi's billions is much more relevant to the flood of refugees.

    BTW, it was Ghaddafi's Libya which was serving as a buffer for the North-African refugees into Europe. Ghaddafi was cracking down on people smuggling, plus he was improving the economic well-being of the African countries south of Libya and thus reducing the economic migration pressure on Europe. But, greed got the better of Europeans, or rather those who conduct NATO policies do not have to pay for their externality - the refugees. So they blasted away the buffer. Voilà, refugees renamed by propaganda into "migrants".

    There is only one thing I will never understand - how can Europeans such as you not see and keep denying the root cause of the refugee problem. Are you blind, or stupid or paid not to see, that is to bull here for NATO?

    , @Osman
    You were doing fine until u said this:

    " But I can’t agree with your view that the West is the root of all evil in the Islamic world"

    Remind me of where I said any such thing? Please can u stop with these silly strawmans for once and just deal with my actual statements and arguments. I was simply showing the other side of the coin and at times throwing those racist imperialist tropes right back in the faces of some of u guys and gals here. My argument is if you don`t like being "swamped" by desperate refugees (u wanna see swamped go to Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Kenya, Pakistan now that`s getting swamped Europe is only getting a little wet) then stop your govt`s from destabilizing these countries with their greedy and stupid policies. It ain`t good enough for you to sit there and just mouth platitudes about how u condemn your ruling elites and their policies. Instead of blaming powerless refugees who are obviously less fortunate than you as a citizen of rich Germany why don`t u organize and do something to stop your ruling elites. From reading your comments it seems to me that u reserve your hostile energy for those weak refugees not your powerful rulers who caused them to come to your country. Is that not cowardly of you? You can wish or disagree all u want that your govt didn`t do this or that thing in Afghanistan or elsewhere it`s empty words as long as u reserve your energies for anti-refugee xenophobia instead of dealing with the root cause of this problem that is your elites and their policies. Again stop putting your words into my mouth LOL! I did not say "what would be so bad if Taliban were back in power" I said "If majority of Afghans prefer living under Taliban rule why is it any of your business as long as they mind their on business?" See the difference or are u deliberately obfuscating? Anyway no one is asking you to have "sympathy" for these people your ELECTED rulers have uprooted that would be too much to ask of you. Just stop being a bully and coward direct your anger upwards not downwards. Likewise wish u the best.

    Cheers

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  117. @Kat Grey
    Europe would always stand tall as a glowing beacon of benefits and freebies to the Third Worlders who look on in greedy stupified wonder ("why can't we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?"); sure didn't hordes of Pakistanis migrate to England in the 1950s along with West Indians? All in "search of a better life".

    “why can’t we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?”

    They left Pakistan without visiting Isfehan, , or its Armenian cathedral http://www.360cities.net/image/isfahan-vank-cathedral-iran-armenian-church; or Yazd or Tehran??

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  118. Lupa says:
    @Osman
    "Because the Taliban government harboured al-Qaida, allowed them to run training camps in Afghanistan, and even after 9/11 refused to kick them out/extradite them? "

    That is absolute rubbish. The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too? The Taliban as cruel and regressive and stupid as they are were only hosting that Saudi spoiled brat Osama but had no knowledge of these attacks and were surprised as anyone else when it happened. They asked for evidence before they would hand him over but the arrogant Bush administration issued an ultimatum that any proud Pashtun tribesman would refuse because they really wanted to pound some "ragheads" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    " And do you seriously want to claim there would be less “refugees” coming from Afghanistan if the West totally withdrew right now? This would result in civil war and eventually probably a re-imposition of Taliban rule…how is that a desirable outcome?"

    Again with the strawman arguments LOL! In the short-term probably not but in the long term with the help of a comprehensive agreement including all Afghan factions (Taliban included) and regional actors like Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China, and India, absolutely yes because I`ve seen it happen in other post-conflict countries. If majority of Afghans prefer living under Taliban rule why is it any of your business as long as they mind their on business? Which btw they were doing prior to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan with even trips to Houston to discuss a pipeline route with disgraced energy firm Enron http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/the_enron-cheney-taliban_connection

    "As for the Iraq war, I told you I opposed it…my country didn’t participate, and I don’t feel responsible for the indirect support given by Germany to the US. I’m also against attempts to overthrow Assad’s government in Syria…as probably are large percentages, perhaps even majorities of Europeans. It’s not our fault our idiotic transatlantic elites see things differently and aren’t accountable in the way they should be"

    Do u think Iraqis or other people killed by German made weapons or killed by your NATO allies or that bases in Germany have been used as critical logistics hubs for these operations care that you as an individual opposed it and blame it all on your so called "idiotic transatlantic elites"? That is a weak cop out. You elect your leaders so they are very much accountable to you. So quit making weak excuses and put up or shut up about your so called "opposition" to these policies and for Chrissakes stop whining about refugees so much. The choice is pretty clear.

    "But there’s probably little sense in continuing this discussion. You know, I’d actually even agree that Western foreign policy in the Mideast is in many ways morally bankrupt…I’m appalled at Western support for Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen or for the Gulf states’ Islamist projects in Syria. It’s just that I don’t agree this means white Westerners in general deserve to be submerged by a never-ending flow of migrants. You go well beyond a legimitate criticism of Western (or rather US) hegemony/imperialism into “white race is the cancer of history”-territory. Maybe you have legitimate reasons for your views and your bitterness (seems like you’re disappointed and disillusioned by your service in the US army), but I think your views are pretty excessive and one-sided."

    Again with your stupid strawman arguments and "white race is the cancer of history" do u pull these phony quotes out of your ass. I said no such thing but gave documented evidence of your government's conduct but you choose to dishonestly hide behind strawman arguments and putting fake words in my mouth instead of owning up to your govt`s policies and instead choose to take it out on the weakest among us, the refugees. Shameless and cowardly! It is not enough for you to just sit behind your computer and vaguely condemn your leaders and do nothing to change these policies and instead you willingly choose to condemn and target poor refugees who had nothing to do with starting this problem. Why do you target the poor refugees who are but a mere symptom of your govt`s policies instead of gathering up your balls and challenging your elites? Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am like some people here. Otherwise it has been nice chatting with you I wish u as an individual the best in your future life. Goodbye German Reader.

    Hey mr disillusioned war veteran, since you entered the discussion you’ve posted like 25 comments.

    I’m sure you have some valuable insights, but maybe condense it a little for courtesy?

    Also: “Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am” is quite funny-sounding coming from a man whose only explanation for any injustice anywhere ever, is 19th century colonialism by Europeans. “LOL” indeed

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Oh it`s that moron again who asked about Poland. Why should I condense anything? Don`t dictate to me how I should express myself. You are free to join the discussion if you have anything meaningful to say but from what I read of your comments they mainly consist of whataboutisms and ad hominems.

    " is quite funny-sounding coming from a man whose only explanation for any injustice anywhere ever, is 19th century colonialism by Europeans."

    Wow! More strawman arguments. Did u miss the part were I talked about current and recent NATO/US imperial interventions leading to the refugee crisis that has got your collective panties all in bunch these days? Me thinks u are obfuscating a bit here. It`s hard to believe someone can be that dyslexic.

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  119. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    Osman, Muslims have been invading and pillaging Europe centuries before the Pope launched the first Crusade. When do you think Iberia and Sicily were invaded by the Moors? 8th century!!! That's a full three hundred years before the Crusades began.

    If we follow your imperialist logic “we were bringing them civilization” and all that jazz, the Moors were doing the Iberians and Sicilians a favor by pulling them out of the ignorance and medieval superstition http://www.spainthenandnow.com/spanish-history/cordoba-historical-overview/default_41.aspx

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  120. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    "Smashing up of countries and stealing are the root cause of the current refugee crisis that Europe is experiencing. Nobody in Europe dares mention the unmentionable – that your NATO mafia capo – the US and its boss, il capo dei capi – Israel are to blame."

    Amen to that Kiza! Yes they dare not look in the mirror and prefer to deflect with strawman arguments and self-serving tropes like "look how generous we are to these ungrateful darkies"

    Osman, since you mentioned mirrors …

    In this Western country where I leave they created advertisements, similar to those from Orwell’s “1984″: “The terrorists are around. If you see something report something”. They plastered those agitprop posters all over the place. I had this idea of cutting a highly-polished piece of aluminium and covering a part of such advertisement poster, so that those who read the poster can see themselves in the mirror and report themselves as terrorists.

    Well, actually they are not terrorists, they are the sponsors of terrorism. Just look at Syria.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Don`t forget Libya
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  121. Osman says:
    @annamaria
    "No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them."
    To be fair, the Soviets' introductions to Afghanistan (please, be mindful of the ethnic composition of the Soviets) were incomparably more beneficial than the American policies. Besides, the Soviet Union' invasion itself pursued the clear strategic goals to protect Soviet interests on the Union' borders. The overall logic of your comment is valid, yet the specifics show irrefutably that the Soviets had tried to improve the lives of the ordinary Afghanis, whereas the Americans have been trying to improve the base line of the well-connected war profiteers for the expense of the ordinary Afghanis
    Avery: "By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs."
    Compare that to the current state of medieval oppression of Afghani women and the total carnage wrecked by the US agains Afghanistan.

    “To be fair, the Soviets’ introductions to Afghanistan (please, be mindful of the ethnic composition of the Soviets) were incomparably more beneficial than the American policies. Besides, the Soviet Union’ invasion itself pursued the clear strategic goals to protect Soviet interests on the Union’ borders. The overall logic of your comment is valid, yet the specifics show irrefutably that the Soviets had tried to improve the lives of the ordinary Afghanis, whereas the Americans have been trying to improve the base line of the well-connected war profiteers for the expense of the ordinary Afghanis”

    Let`s not kid ourselves muslim people had very little power in the Soviet Union. Okay fine Soviets brought some material benefits to Afghanistan but does that justify invading and occupying them and killing over a million Afghans? I think Afghans would beg to differ and would rather have their million people alive than have those “soviet benefits”. The point is not which form of imperialism was better for the Afghans but to leave the Afghans alone. To be fair, the Soviets had a legitimate security fear on their southern flank due to the West`s machinations with Islamist groups (see Brezinski and his machinations) but in hindsight to don`t you think the Soviets were stupid to fall into such a transparent trap set for them by guys like Brezinski? Anyway does any of this justify Avery`s racist hatred towards powerless Central Asian migrant workers?

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    I agree with the general notion that it is nobody else's business to make "life better" for other nations, to bring democracy and other assorted propaganda crap. The false do-gooders, the saviors, the humanitarians and other state and NGO criminals will always produce justifications for pillaging of other nations under a "we are the good-guys" guise.

    However, you may be missing annamarina's point that Afghanistan was bordering Soviet Union and thus whatever happened in Afghanistan was highly likely to be destabilizing to the Soviet Union. This is not a justification for the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, but no country wants chaos or a terrorist base on its border. Just imagine for a moment what the US would do, if Soviets tried to make Canada into a terrorist Heaven!? They almost caused a nuclear war for the relatively far-away USSR Cuban bases.

    The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was bad in a real-politic way, but at least the Soviets did not try to smash up and pillage the country like NATO does. Thus, they cannot be equated.
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  122. Kiza says:
    @German_reader
    Well, you do raise quite a few valid points, undoubtedly the US and other Western powers have supported Islamist movements against secular nationalists in the past, and still have an unholy alliance with the Gulf states and their Islamist allies. I think that's a misguided and morally bankrupt policy. I also think the Iraq war and Western meddling in Syria are wrong. But I can't agree with your view that the West is the root of all evil in the Islamic world. About Afghanistan: I certainly would be happy if my country had nothing to do with that place anymore, and the intervention there seems to have been a failure. But you're asking what would be so bad when the Taliban are back in power...I suppose it wouldn't be all that great for women and more secular-minded people. Of course, if a majority of Afghans wants to live in an Islamist theocracy nobody can stop them...but I'm doubtful if it will really be better than the present state.
    And while I won't pretend that I have much sympathy for most "refugees", my true loathing is reserved for the Western elites who enable their immigration (and who also favour Western interventions in the Islamic world)...so I don't think my anger is misdirected.
    Can't agree with your view of things, but then I haven't had your life experiences (and you haven't had mine). I wish you all the best as well.

    Let us come back to the discussion on what caused the current flood of refugees into Europe. The haughty discussion of who invaded who first in the 8th century is a total digression. The question who stole Ghaddafi’s billions is much more relevant to the flood of refugees.

    BTW, it was Ghaddafi’s Libya which was serving as a buffer for the North-African refugees into Europe. Ghaddafi was cracking down on people smuggling, plus he was improving the economic well-being of the African countries south of Libya and thus reducing the economic migration pressure on Europe. But, greed got the better of Europeans, or rather those who conduct NATO policies do not have to pay for their externality – the refugees. So they blasted away the buffer. Voilà, refugees renamed by propaganda into “migrants”.

    There is only one thing I will never understand – how can Europeans such as you not see and keep denying the root cause of the refugee problem. Are you blind, or stupid or paid not to see, that is to bull here for NATO?

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "Let us come back to the discussion on what caused the current flood of refugees into Europe. The haughty discussion of who invaded who first in the 8th century is a total digression. The question who stole Ghaddafi’s billions is much more relevant to the flood of refugees.

    BTW, it was Ghaddafi’s Libya which was serving as a buffer for the North-African refugees into Europe. Ghaddafi was cracking down on people smuggling, plus he was improving the economic well-being of the African countries south of Libya and thus reducing the economic migration pressure on Europe. But, greed got the better of Europeans, or rather those who conduct NATO policies do not have to pay for their externality – the refugees. So they blasted away the buffer. Voilà, refugees renamed by propaganda into “migrants”.

    There is only one thing I will never understand – how can Europeans such as you not see and keep denying the root cause of the refugee problem. Are you blind, or stupid or paid not to see, that is to bull here for NATO?"


    Couldn`t have said it better. Cheers Kiza!

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  123. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    Europe would always stand tall as a glowing beacon of benefits and freebies to the Third Worlders who look on in greedy stupified wonder ("why can't we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?"); sure didn't hordes of Pakistanis migrate to England in the 1950s along with West Indians? All in "search of a better life".

    “Europe would always stand tall as a glowing beacon of benefits and freebies to the Third Worlders who look on in greedy stupified wonder (“why can’t we build cities like London, Paris and Rome?”); sure didn’t hordes of Pakistanis migrate to England in the 1950s along with West Indians? All in “search of a better life”.

    Is this what passes for intellectualism in white supremacist circles these days? LOL! Yes I would call the wholesale looting of the Indian subcontinent by the British a “freebie” (Pakistan was a part of the British Raj colony if you are historically challenged) and centuries of free West Indian slave labor definitely qualifies as a “freebie”. So these people have every right to migrate to England. England took their stuff. Also I would remind you it was the English who “invited” more like recruited these people to come over as cheap labor in order rebuild after WW2 (ditto for the rest of Western Europe). Not to mention lots of these people were forced to fight and die for your imperialist Wars especially Pakistanis and West Indian (my own grandfather fought in Burma with the King`s African Rifle Regiment and unlike me he didn`t enlist voluntarily but was conscripted). Their resources and labor helped build your precious cities “honey” so why are u complaining now? Talking about “ungrateful”. Jeesh! LOL

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  124. Kiza says:
    @annamaria
    "No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them."
    To be fair, the Soviets' introductions to Afghanistan (please, be mindful of the ethnic composition of the Soviets) were incomparably more beneficial than the American policies. Besides, the Soviet Union' invasion itself pursued the clear strategic goals to protect Soviet interests on the Union' borders. The overall logic of your comment is valid, yet the specifics show irrefutably that the Soviets had tried to improve the lives of the ordinary Afghanis, whereas the Americans have been trying to improve the base line of the well-connected war profiteers for the expense of the ordinary Afghanis
    Avery: "By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs."
    Compare that to the current state of medieval oppression of Afghani women and the total carnage wrecked by the US agains Afghanistan.

    Fantastically succinct comparison:
    “By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs.
    Compare that to the current state of medieval oppression of Afghani women and the total carnage wrecked by the US against Afghanistan.”

    And you did not even mention the 10-fold increase in opium production in Afghanistan under US occupation.

    But controlling the discourse, the Western media create alternative/opposite/virtual reality. Western achievements in country engineering. The villain is a victim and victim is a villain, etc.

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  125. Osman says:
    @German_reader
    Well, you do raise quite a few valid points, undoubtedly the US and other Western powers have supported Islamist movements against secular nationalists in the past, and still have an unholy alliance with the Gulf states and their Islamist allies. I think that's a misguided and morally bankrupt policy. I also think the Iraq war and Western meddling in Syria are wrong. But I can't agree with your view that the West is the root of all evil in the Islamic world. About Afghanistan: I certainly would be happy if my country had nothing to do with that place anymore, and the intervention there seems to have been a failure. But you're asking what would be so bad when the Taliban are back in power...I suppose it wouldn't be all that great for women and more secular-minded people. Of course, if a majority of Afghans wants to live in an Islamist theocracy nobody can stop them...but I'm doubtful if it will really be better than the present state.
    And while I won't pretend that I have much sympathy for most "refugees", my true loathing is reserved for the Western elites who enable their immigration (and who also favour Western interventions in the Islamic world)...so I don't think my anger is misdirected.
    Can't agree with your view of things, but then I haven't had your life experiences (and you haven't had mine). I wish you all the best as well.

    You were doing fine until u said this:

    ” But I can’t agree with your view that the West is the root of all evil in the Islamic world”

    Remind me of where I said any such thing? Please can u stop with these silly strawmans for once and just deal with my actual statements and arguments. I was simply showing the other side of the coin and at times throwing those racist imperialist tropes right back in the faces of some of u guys and gals here. My argument is if you don`t like being “swamped” by desperate refugees (u wanna see swamped go to Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Kenya, Pakistan now that`s getting swamped Europe is only getting a little wet) then stop your govt`s from destabilizing these countries with their greedy and stupid policies. It ain`t good enough for you to sit there and just mouth platitudes about how u condemn your ruling elites and their policies. Instead of blaming powerless refugees who are obviously less fortunate than you as a citizen of rich Germany why don`t u organize and do something to stop your ruling elites. From reading your comments it seems to me that u reserve your hostile energy for those weak refugees not your powerful rulers who caused them to come to your country. Is that not cowardly of you? You can wish or disagree all u want that your govt didn`t do this or that thing in Afghanistan or elsewhere it`s empty words as long as u reserve your energies for anti-refugee xenophobia instead of dealing with the root cause of this problem that is your elites and their policies. Again stop putting your words into my mouth LOL! I did not say “what would be so bad if Taliban were back in power” I said “If majority of Afghans prefer living under Taliban rule why is it any of your business as long as they mind their on business?” See the difference or are u deliberately obfuscating? Anyway no one is asking you to have “sympathy” for these people your ELECTED rulers have uprooted that would be too much to ask of you. Just stop being a bully and coward direct your anger upwards not downwards. Likewise wish u the best.

    Cheers

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  126. Osman says:
    @Lupa
    Hey mr disillusioned war veteran, since you entered the discussion you've posted like 25 comments.

    I'm sure you have some valuable insights, but maybe condense it a little for courtesy?

    Also: "Don`t worry about me I`m a big boy I can handle whatever life throws at me without whining and blaming it on people less fortunate than I am" is quite funny-sounding coming from a man whose only explanation for any injustice anywhere ever, is 19th century colonialism by Europeans. "LOL" indeed

    Oh it`s that moron again who asked about Poland. Why should I condense anything? Don`t dictate to me how I should express myself. You are free to join the discussion if you have anything meaningful to say but from what I read of your comments they mainly consist of whataboutisms and ad hominems.

    ” is quite funny-sounding coming from a man whose only explanation for any injustice anywhere ever, is 19th century colonialism by Europeans.”

    Wow! More strawman arguments. Did u miss the part were I talked about current and recent NATO/US imperial interventions leading to the refugee crisis that has got your collective panties all in bunch these days? Me thinks u are obfuscating a bit here. It`s hard to believe someone can be that dyslexic.

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  127. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    Osman, since you mentioned mirrors ...

    In this Western country where I leave they created advertisements, similar to those from Orwell's "1984": "The terrorists are around. If you see something report something". They plastered those agitprop posters all over the place. I had this idea of cutting a highly-polished piece of aluminium and covering a part of such advertisement poster, so that those who read the poster can see themselves in the mirror and report themselves as terrorists.

    Well, actually they are not terrorists, they are the sponsors of terrorism. Just look at Syria.

    Don`t forget Libya

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  128. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    Let us come back to the discussion on what caused the current flood of refugees into Europe. The haughty discussion of who invaded who first in the 8th century is a total digression. The question who stole Ghaddafi's billions is much more relevant to the flood of refugees.

    BTW, it was Ghaddafi's Libya which was serving as a buffer for the North-African refugees into Europe. Ghaddafi was cracking down on people smuggling, plus he was improving the economic well-being of the African countries south of Libya and thus reducing the economic migration pressure on Europe. But, greed got the better of Europeans, or rather those who conduct NATO policies do not have to pay for their externality - the refugees. So they blasted away the buffer. Voilà, refugees renamed by propaganda into "migrants".

    There is only one thing I will never understand - how can Europeans such as you not see and keep denying the root cause of the refugee problem. Are you blind, or stupid or paid not to see, that is to bull here for NATO?

    “Let us come back to the discussion on what caused the current flood of refugees into Europe. The haughty discussion of who invaded who first in the 8th century is a total digression. The question who stole Ghaddafi’s billions is much more relevant to the flood of refugees.

    BTW, it was Ghaddafi’s Libya which was serving as a buffer for the North-African refugees into Europe. Ghaddafi was cracking down on people smuggling, plus he was improving the economic well-being of the African countries south of Libya and thus reducing the economic migration pressure on Europe. But, greed got the better of Europeans, or rather those who conduct NATO policies do not have to pay for their externality – the refugees. So they blasted away the buffer. Voilà, refugees renamed by propaganda into “migrants”.

    There is only one thing I will never understand – how can Europeans such as you not see and keep denying the root cause of the refugee problem. Are you blind, or stupid or paid not to see, that is to bull here for NATO?”

    Couldn`t have said it better. Cheers Kiza!

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  129. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    "To be fair, the Soviets’ introductions to Afghanistan (please, be mindful of the ethnic composition of the Soviets) were incomparably more beneficial than the American policies. Besides, the Soviet Union’ invasion itself pursued the clear strategic goals to protect Soviet interests on the Union’ borders. The overall logic of your comment is valid, yet the specifics show irrefutably that the Soviets had tried to improve the lives of the ordinary Afghanis, whereas the Americans have been trying to improve the base line of the well-connected war profiteers for the expense of the ordinary Afghanis"

    Let`s not kid ourselves muslim people had very little power in the Soviet Union. Okay fine Soviets brought some material benefits to Afghanistan but does that justify invading and occupying them and killing over a million Afghans? I think Afghans would beg to differ and would rather have their million people alive than have those "soviet benefits". The point is not which form of imperialism was better for the Afghans but to leave the Afghans alone. To be fair, the Soviets had a legitimate security fear on their southern flank due to the West`s machinations with Islamist groups (see Brezinski and his machinations) but in hindsight to don`t you think the Soviets were stupid to fall into such a transparent trap set for them by guys like Brezinski? Anyway does any of this justify Avery`s racist hatred towards powerless Central Asian migrant workers?

    I agree with the general notion that it is nobody else’s business to make “life better” for other nations, to bring democracy and other assorted propaganda crap. The false do-gooders, the saviors, the humanitarians and other state and NGO criminals will always produce justifications for pillaging of other nations under a “we are the good-guys” guise.

    However, you may be missing annamarina’s point that Afghanistan was bordering Soviet Union and thus whatever happened in Afghanistan was highly likely to be destabilizing to the Soviet Union. This is not a justification for the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, but no country wants chaos or a terrorist base on its border. Just imagine for a moment what the US would do, if Soviets tried to make Canada into a terrorist Heaven!? They almost caused a nuclear war for the relatively far-away USSR Cuban bases.

    The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was bad in a real-politic way, but at least the Soviets did not try to smash up and pillage the country like NATO does. Thus, they cannot be equated.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "However, you may be missing annamarina’s point that Afghanistan was bordering Soviet Union and thus whatever happened in Afghanistan was highly likely to be destabilizing to the Soviet Union. This is not a justification for the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, but no country wants chaos or a terrorist base on its border."

    I think I conceded that point when I said the following in my reply to AnnaMarina:

    "To be fair, the Soviets had a legitimate security fear on their southern flank due to the West`s machinations with Islamist groups (see Brezinski and his machinations) but in hindsight don`t you think the Soviets were stupid to fall into such a transparent trap set for them by guys like Brezinski? "

    "The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was bad in a real-politic way, but at least the Soviets did not try to smash up and pillage the country like NATO does. Thus, they cannot be equated."

    I don`t know about pillaging but according to what I heard from the Afghans I met and what I saw on the ground there was a lot of "smashing up" going on during the Soviet occupation. The Soviets (especially the White slavic ones) were also quite brutal, racist and arrogant towards Afghans. You can still see that legacy in the treatment of Central Asians and other dark-skinned peoples in post-Soviet Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc...
    Otherwise I think we agree on 99% of the other issues. Cheers. It`s been good talking to you.

    , @Osman
    I thought u might like this: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43343.htm

    and this http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43315.htm

    Here we were arguing about who did what to whom in the 8th century with nuclear armageddon and human extinction staring us right in the face. Kiza, my friend, I could be a cynic but I`m starting to think humanity is doomed. LOL There ain`t much left for us to do but keep our sense of humor in tact while we wait to meet the Grim Reaper.

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  130. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    I agree with the general notion that it is nobody else's business to make "life better" for other nations, to bring democracy and other assorted propaganda crap. The false do-gooders, the saviors, the humanitarians and other state and NGO criminals will always produce justifications for pillaging of other nations under a "we are the good-guys" guise.

    However, you may be missing annamarina's point that Afghanistan was bordering Soviet Union and thus whatever happened in Afghanistan was highly likely to be destabilizing to the Soviet Union. This is not a justification for the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, but no country wants chaos or a terrorist base on its border. Just imagine for a moment what the US would do, if Soviets tried to make Canada into a terrorist Heaven!? They almost caused a nuclear war for the relatively far-away USSR Cuban bases.

    The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was bad in a real-politic way, but at least the Soviets did not try to smash up and pillage the country like NATO does. Thus, they cannot be equated.

    “However, you may be missing annamarina’s point that Afghanistan was bordering Soviet Union and thus whatever happened in Afghanistan was highly likely to be destabilizing to the Soviet Union. This is not a justification for the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, but no country wants chaos or a terrorist base on its border.”

    I think I conceded that point when I said the following in my reply to AnnaMarina:

    “To be fair, the Soviets had a legitimate security fear on their southern flank due to the West`s machinations with Islamist groups (see Brezinski and his machinations) but in hindsight don`t you think the Soviets were stupid to fall into such a transparent trap set for them by guys like Brezinski? ”

    “The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was bad in a real-politic way, but at least the Soviets did not try to smash up and pillage the country like NATO does. Thus, they cannot be equated.”

    I don`t know about pillaging but according to what I heard from the Afghans I met and what I saw on the ground there was a lot of “smashing up” going on during the Soviet occupation. The Soviets (especially the White slavic ones) were also quite brutal, racist and arrogant towards Afghans. You can still see that legacy in the treatment of Central Asians and other dark-skinned peoples in post-Soviet Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc…
    Otherwise I think we agree on 99% of the other issues. Cheers. It`s been good talking to you.

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  131. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    I agree with the general notion that it is nobody else's business to make "life better" for other nations, to bring democracy and other assorted propaganda crap. The false do-gooders, the saviors, the humanitarians and other state and NGO criminals will always produce justifications for pillaging of other nations under a "we are the good-guys" guise.

    However, you may be missing annamarina's point that Afghanistan was bordering Soviet Union and thus whatever happened in Afghanistan was highly likely to be destabilizing to the Soviet Union. This is not a justification for the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, but no country wants chaos or a terrorist base on its border. Just imagine for a moment what the US would do, if Soviets tried to make Canada into a terrorist Heaven!? They almost caused a nuclear war for the relatively far-away USSR Cuban bases.

    The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was bad in a real-politic way, but at least the Soviets did not try to smash up and pillage the country like NATO does. Thus, they cannot be equated.

    I thought u might like this: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43343.htm

    and this http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43315.htm

    Here we were arguing about who did what to whom in the 8th century with nuclear armageddon and human extinction staring us right in the face. Kiza, my friend, I could be a cynic but I`m starting to think humanity is doomed. LOL There ain`t much left for us to do but keep our sense of humor in tact while we wait to meet the Grim Reaper.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    No, Osman, you are not a cynic: The armageddon has been coming and it will be a nuclear armageddon, unfortunately. It will destroy everything alive and sterilize the planet for eternity. A beautiful living seed in the vastness of cold space and deadly rays, the planet could be well destroyed by her ungrateful, petty inhabitants.
    The power-mad puppeteers are not able to comprehend a picture where the servants of this or that kind would not be capable of cleaning the grand mess and putting everything back to order. If and when the nuclear disaster strikes, there will be no winners. We live on the edge.
    , @Kiza
    Gee, Osman, you and I are more than friends, we are the commenting brothers of the same Internet mother. I have never encountered anyone who is so well educated and has such similar attitude. Especially, on the humor as a refuge.

    Sorry I missed the quoted part of your response to annamarina, you are absolutely right that Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was not all milk and honey and that some Russians are racist. But it is hard to measure which nation is more racist than another. So let us leave it at that. What I meant by "smashing up" is not so much physical destruction, bombing etc then destruction of an organized society, as per totally in Libya, half-way in Iraq, on the way in Syria. The US did not do as much "smashing up" in Afghanistan. Nice to know that you are vet from Afghanistan, then you have seen things I could only read about.

    Is humanity doomed? Well, we thought the same in the sixties, but we somehow survived. I am very, very concerned, but I decided that we have to take it as it comes. Everything happens for a reason. If we make humans extinct, then this was the right outcome. If we happen to die in a nuclear holocaust, at least we have voiced our concerns in comments and we will not die silent as we would have in the sixties (lol). And our online activity may help others recognize the dangers and help suppress the forces pushing in this direction.

    I may have found one more difference between you and I - Anthropogenic Global Warming that I regard as an elite's way to save us from ourselves and charge us for the privilege. Climate change, yes, anthropogenic, negligible. So, maybe our agreement is 98%.

    Nevertheless, thanks very much for the links brother.

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  132. annamaria says:
    @Osman
    I thought u might like this: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43343.htm

    and this http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43315.htm

    Here we were arguing about who did what to whom in the 8th century with nuclear armageddon and human extinction staring us right in the face. Kiza, my friend, I could be a cynic but I`m starting to think humanity is doomed. LOL There ain`t much left for us to do but keep our sense of humor in tact while we wait to meet the Grim Reaper.

    No, Osman, you are not a cynic: The armageddon has been coming and it will be a nuclear armageddon, unfortunately. It will destroy everything alive and sterilize the planet for eternity. A beautiful living seed in the vastness of cold space and deadly rays, the planet could be well destroyed by her ungrateful, petty inhabitants.
    The power-mad puppeteers are not able to comprehend a picture where the servants of this or that kind would not be capable of cleaning the grand mess and putting everything back to order. If and when the nuclear disaster strikes, there will be no winners. We live on the edge.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    No annamarina, the cockroaches will survive the coming nuclear war. They will start a happy and cooperative new cockroach civilization. They will discover one day that humans were there before them and that they dominated the planet. Then one cockroach of a special religious belief will start making moving pictures called Humanity Park, about cloned humans who entertain masses of visiting cockroaches, until one day the humans get out of control, smash the fences and start stamping the poor curious cockroaches. Although repetitive, these moving pictures will be so entertaining to the little cockies and their parents that the cockroach of the special religious belief will make zillions of cockroachy dollars on these moving pictures.

    Another cockie will create an extermination device called Human Motel, where the humans check-in but they never check-out.

    Well, something like that anyway.

    , @Osman
    So what God should we pray to for salvation?
    , @Osman
    I hope I am dead by then. Maybe I should start drinking like some of my white friends from the service
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  133. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    I thought u might like this: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43343.htm

    and this http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43315.htm

    Here we were arguing about who did what to whom in the 8th century with nuclear armageddon and human extinction staring us right in the face. Kiza, my friend, I could be a cynic but I`m starting to think humanity is doomed. LOL There ain`t much left for us to do but keep our sense of humor in tact while we wait to meet the Grim Reaper.

    Gee, Osman, you and I are more than friends, we are the commenting brothers of the same Internet mother. I have never encountered anyone who is so well educated and has such similar attitude. Especially, on the humor as a refuge.

    Sorry I missed the quoted part of your response to annamarina, you are absolutely right that Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was not all milk and honey and that some Russians are racist. But it is hard to measure which nation is more racist than another. So let us leave it at that. What I meant by “smashing up” is not so much physical destruction, bombing etc then destruction of an organized society, as per totally in Libya, half-way in Iraq, on the way in Syria. The US did not do as much “smashing up” in Afghanistan. Nice to know that you are vet from Afghanistan, then you have seen things I could only read about.

    Is humanity doomed? Well, we thought the same in the sixties, but we somehow survived. I am very, very concerned, but I decided that we have to take it as it comes. Everything happens for a reason. If we make humans extinct, then this was the right outcome. If we happen to die in a nuclear holocaust, at least we have voiced our concerns in comments and we will not die silent as we would have in the sixties (lol). And our online activity may help others recognize the dangers and help suppress the forces pushing in this direction.

    I may have found one more difference between you and I – Anthropogenic Global Warming that I regard as an elite’s way to save us from ourselves and charge us for the privilege. Climate change, yes, anthropogenic, negligible. So, maybe our agreement is 98%.

    Nevertheless, thanks very much for the links brother.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    So what`s the cause of climate change in your opinion? I`m just an ill-educated soldier who barely earned his BA and now runs a small bar and grill so please school me on that stuff. Otherwise my black face blushes at comments praising me, it aint a pretty sight to look at so please no more flattery okay? LOL! Btw u aint too shabby a verbal jouster yourself mate
    , @Osman
    " you are absolutely right that Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was not all milk and honey and that some Russians are racist. But it is hard to measure which nation is more racist than another. So let us leave it at that. What I meant by “smashing up” is not so much physical destruction, bombing etc then destruction of an organized society, as per totally in Libya, half-way in Iraq, on the way in Syria. The US did not do as much “smashing up” in Afghanistan. Nice to know that you are vet from Afghanistan, then you have seen things I could only read about.

    In my humble opinion as an African I cannot even begin to compare the West with Russia. It`s like light and day with Russia being the day if u ask me. Nonetheless, this does not excuse neo-white nationalists in Russia from abusing ethnic minorities in those countries. They need to be called on it just as much as morons like Rediger and his ilk. Other than that I absolutely agree with the rest of your comment. As one great man one said "it be the truth Ruth" LOL

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  134. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    If you think Russians and Chinese are impressed by the West, and want their countries to become like us, you haven’t been to Russia the past ten years and you don’t know Chinese.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Been to both. And Chinese and Russians (btw who are mostly white, to u confused racists) do mutually beneficial trade with other countries unlike the greedy and arrogant self-righteous West with all its phony NGOs and "human rights organizations"
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  135. Kiza says:
    @annamaria
    No, Osman, you are not a cynic: The armageddon has been coming and it will be a nuclear armageddon, unfortunately. It will destroy everything alive and sterilize the planet for eternity. A beautiful living seed in the vastness of cold space and deadly rays, the planet could be well destroyed by her ungrateful, petty inhabitants.
    The power-mad puppeteers are not able to comprehend a picture where the servants of this or that kind would not be capable of cleaning the grand mess and putting everything back to order. If and when the nuclear disaster strikes, there will be no winners. We live on the edge.

    No annamarina, the cockroaches will survive the coming nuclear war. They will start a happy and cooperative new cockroach civilization. They will discover one day that humans were there before them and that they dominated the planet. Then one cockroach of a special religious belief will start making moving pictures called Humanity Park, about cloned humans who entertain masses of visiting cockroaches, until one day the humans get out of control, smash the fences and start stamping the poor curious cockroaches. Although repetitive, these moving pictures will be so entertaining to the little cockies and their parents that the cockroach of the special religious belief will make zillions of cockroachy dollars on these moving pictures.

    Another cockie will create an extermination device called Human Motel, where the humans check-in but they never check-out.

    Well, something like that anyway.

    Read More
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  136. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    EU needs more like this guy:

    But he is wrong to fear Muslims more than Africans.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    Thank you for showing us the last kicks of so called "western civilisation" LOL
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  137. Avery says:
    @Osman
    Let`s take your statements one by one:

    You said: "The alleged Soviet/Russian “colonialism” in the _stans has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate and higher standard of living for all the _stans that had the “misfortune” of having been “colonized” by Soviets/Russians."

    Okay I will concede for the sake of argument since I`m not an expert on literacy stats in the Former Soviet Republic, that Russian colonization of these countries "has resulted in 99%+ literacy rate" (a suspiciously high number, 99% reminds of those "elections" we used to have in my country were the dictator would always win with a margin of 99% unopposed). So does that justify invading and occupying other people`s countries because you claim to have given them a "higher standard of living"? That smacks of that old colonialist canard "mission civilisatrice" a self-serving excuse to invade and pillage other countries if there ever was one. Somehow I don`t think you are the most credible interlocutor on this issue considering you sound like a Slavic neo-nazi type. And I`m sceptical Tsarist Russia had the best interests of Central Asians in mind when they invaded and brutally colonized and dispossessed these people http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch09sr.htm

    "One _stan that did not get the “horror” of being “colonized” by thems Russkies – Afghanistan – is a backwards, medieval cesspool."

    I think Afghans remember that history a little differently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR7xwzjkxbY It maybe a "medieval cesspool" but it is their "medieval cesspool" not yours. No one, Russians or NATO or any other foreign power have a right to invade and occupy them. It seems some of you here complain loudly about "refugee and migrant invasion" into your countries but strangely indifferent and even proud of your REAL invasions of other countries. I guess that is part of your White European "exceptionalism" eh? LOL

    "why aren’t those “oppressed”, “colonized” citizens of _stans not going to work in the countries of their fellow Muslim brethren, but are eager to go and find employment in the homeland of of their Christian or Atheist “colonizers” and “oppressors”."

    Well maybe because those "muslim brethren" of theirs did not invade and occupy them and still dominate them militarily and economically and in the case of the Caucuses just outright annexed entire territories and in one particular horrible case committed genocide against the Circassians of Sochi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4lxzZjkhs So if you don`t want them in precious Moscow and St. Petersburg then get out of Grozny and Dushanbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit. Until then lump it buddy u go there they come to you. It`s as simple as that.

    "The SSR _stans have been independent since 1991: why do their citizens need to humiliate themselves working for those dastardly Roossian colonizers ?
    Why not find employment in prosperous Islamic countries that were not colonized by those evil Russians.
    Lots of employment opportunities in Afghanistan, Pakistan: Right ? Osman.

    Don’t avoid the question: answer it.
    Why are the “oppressed” streaming towards their “oppressors” and “colonizers”, Osman ?"

    This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans. As I have already said for the umpteenth time these countries are under the complete military and economic domination of Russia not Pakistan or any other "muslim brethren" (see the above link for a list of Russian military bases in Central Asia) and I`m not even talking about the annexed republics like Dagestan, Chechnya, and Tatarstan. So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now. I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin, who realizes the futility of Russia making enemies on its eastern and southern flank with moronic racist tropes like yours while trying to fend off Western encroachment on its Western borders. Hence why Russia is busy making friends in the more independent minded Muslim world (Assad, Iran, Hezbollah, Algeria, Egypt`s Sisi, Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya, and even the Stans including Pakistan btw. If Russia followed your advice they would fall right into the trap set by the Empire with all those disgruntled muslims in Russia joining Western supported jihadi outfits like ISIS and what not. I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.

    {Well maybe because those “muslim brethren” of theirs did not invade and occupy them…}

    Your Muslim brethren, from a small base in Mecca, have invaded, occupied, and ethnically cleansed and forcibly Islamized formerly Christian and non-Muslim lands.
    Millions of square miles.
    For example, Asia Minor, formerly non-Muslim, pretty much all Christian, was invaded by Muslim Turkic nomad tribes.
    You know from where ? East and Central Asia: Uyguristan.
    Take a look at a map and see how close Uyguristan is to Asia Minor.
    Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe.
    When radical Muslims stop invading Christian lands and and stop attempts to forcibly Islamize people, then maybe there will be no more meddling in the affairs of neighboring countries, by e.g. Russia.
    Chechnya had practical independence after the first Chechen war.
    But radical Islamists decided to spread Wahhabism to other nearby Russian Federation republics; so Moscow had to wipe them out.
    With crucial help from Chechens themselves.
    Take a look at this:
    [100,000 Chechens Attend Putin`s Birthday Rally in Grozny]

    http://www.sott.net/article/286964-Happy-birthday-Mr-President-100K-Chechens-gather-to-wish-Putin-a-happy-birthday

    Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?

    {Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit.}
    {This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans}
    {So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now.}
    {I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.}

    Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck.

    {I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin}

    I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "Your Muslim brethren, from a small base in Mecca, have invaded, occupied, and ethnically cleansed and forcibly Islamized formerly Christian and non-Muslim lands."

    Rubbish and u know it. Islam spread mostly through the trade (silk road) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam

    "For example, Asia Minor, formerly non-Muslim, pretty much all Christian, was invaded by Muslim Turkic nomad tribes.
    You know from where ? East and Central Asia: Uyguristan.
    Take a look at a map and see how close Uyguristan is to Asia Minor.
    Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe."

    Again more nonsense, Asia Minor or Anatolia were always crossroads of various empires throughout history way before history. The reality is the people Asia Minor simply converted to Islam en masse when the rulers changed religions when Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity along with his whole realm as was the custom of the day. So there was no such thing as mass forcible conversions as u claim. People were simple peasants who just obeyed their betters in those days and accepted whatever norm the ruling group imposed on them. It was a battle of "Game of Thrones" more than anything representing the masses of any side. But u can continue with you self-affirming fantasies LOL
    , @Osman
    "Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe."

    Why? If the Ottomans wanted wipe out Christians they would have started long ago right in 1 Anatolia and the Levant but that sort of shit never came close until WW1 with the Armenian Genocide. So if u think the Turks wanted to "wipe out Christians" why did they wait for the worst possible time until 1914 when all their enemies were surrounding and almost colonized them? http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/battle-of-gallipoli

    "Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?"

    Don`t get arrogant and generalize many Chechens are seething with anger at Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzO11vtoi0

    The rest of that is just typical parading and kowtowing by conquered folks.

    "Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck."

    Projecting much? LOL

    "I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me."

    Then u are more of moron than I originally thought. Your stupid hate incitement against Central Asians could easily get u killed:

    Skinheads In Russia Killed Armenians - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCvPHJp8BnM
    このページを訳す
    2008/12/19 - blyt gandoni skini yobaniy vrot che odin na odin v jopu vas budut yibat da? eti mujiki rabotayut trudom svoyix detey kormyat a vi iz sea patritov delayete shto duxa vashego slavanskogo ne xvatit viyti i odin na odin pizditsa? eto ...
    , @Osman
    This is a more accurate map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_migration#/media/File:Pontic_steppe_region_around_650_AD.png
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  138. joe webb says:

    here is a great piece on Europe’s assault by the low-life. Sunic is a Croat by nationality.

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Training with Croatians I found them to be some very under achieving morons to be frank compared to Turks or Armenians who were may agile.
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  139. Osman says:
    @annamaria
    No, Osman, you are not a cynic: The armageddon has been coming and it will be a nuclear armageddon, unfortunately. It will destroy everything alive and sterilize the planet for eternity. A beautiful living seed in the vastness of cold space and deadly rays, the planet could be well destroyed by her ungrateful, petty inhabitants.
    The power-mad puppeteers are not able to comprehend a picture where the servants of this or that kind would not be capable of cleaning the grand mess and putting everything back to order. If and when the nuclear disaster strikes, there will be no winners. We live on the edge.

    So what God should we pray to for salvation?

    Read More
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  140. Osman says:
    @joe webb
    here is a great piece on Europe's assault by the low-life. Sunic is a Croat by nationality.

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net

    Joe Webb

    Training with Croatians I found them to be some very under achieving morons to be frank compared to Turks or Armenians who were may agile.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    Turks at 90 IQ, Croats at 90, and Armenia at 95, per RichardLynn.

    Why anybody gives this Osman any time is beyond me. He is a killer of Whites and White Civilization.

    He apparently knows the difference between a bell curve and its, say top 10% but will obscure any reasonable point, for example, that while Croatian IQ has been sullied by Turks and Arabs, there is that top 10% nevertheless, and probably the top 2 % in the case of Tom Sunic, an academic.

    Osman will ad hominem the man but refuse the argue his article. This is the mark of a killer.
    Osman is a de-colonialist commie type and should be ignored.

    By the way, Whites will once again distinguish themselves by merely repatriating the wretched and not killing them. The wretched will start killing us, led by the likes of Osman, in which Whites will slowly start returning the complement, so if Osman really cared about social peace, and not revenge, he would agree to Return of Immigrants.

    The only way to a relatively peaceful world is No Immigration or Race mixing. Every country with mixed ethnys is mired in war or mistrust, even White countries (!). Irish/English, Flemish?Walloons, and so on. Osman is a communist, and it is that simple, not far from the sacker.

    Joe Webb
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  141. Osman says:
    @annamaria
    No, Osman, you are not a cynic: The armageddon has been coming and it will be a nuclear armageddon, unfortunately. It will destroy everything alive and sterilize the planet for eternity. A beautiful living seed in the vastness of cold space and deadly rays, the planet could be well destroyed by her ungrateful, petty inhabitants.
    The power-mad puppeteers are not able to comprehend a picture where the servants of this or that kind would not be capable of cleaning the grand mess and putting everything back to order. If and when the nuclear disaster strikes, there will be no winners. We live on the edge.

    I hope I am dead by then. Maybe I should start drinking like some of my white friends from the service

    Read More
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  142. Osman says:
    @Anonymous
    If you think Russians and Chinese are impressed by the West, and want their countries to become like us, you haven't been to Russia the past ten years and you don't know Chinese.

    Been to both. And Chinese and Russians (btw who are mostly white, to u confused racists) do mutually beneficial trade with other countries unlike the greedy and arrogant self-righteous West with all its phony NGOs and “human rights organizations”

    Read More
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  143. Osman says:
    @Priss Factor
    EU needs more like this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCW2hxux3Ro

    But he is wrong to fear Muslims more than Africans.

    Thank you for showing us the last kicks of so called “western civilisation” LOL

    Read More
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  144. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {Well maybe because those “muslim brethren” of theirs did not invade and occupy them…}

    Your Muslim brethren, from a small base in Mecca, have invaded, occupied, and ethnically cleansed and forcibly Islamized formerly Christian and non-Muslim lands.
    Millions of square miles.
    For example, Asia Minor, formerly non-Muslim, pretty much all Christian, was invaded by Muslim Turkic nomad tribes.
    You know from where ? East and Central Asia: Uyguristan.
    Take a look at a map and see how close Uyguristan is to Asia Minor.
    Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe.
    When radical Muslims stop invading Christian lands and and stop attempts to forcibly Islamize people, then maybe there will be no more meddling in the affairs of neighboring countries, by e.g. Russia.
    Chechnya had practical independence after the first Chechen war.
    But radical Islamists decided to spread Wahhabism to other nearby Russian Federation republics; so Moscow had to wipe them out.
    With crucial help from Chechens themselves.
    Take a look at this:
    [100,000 Chechens Attend Putin`s Birthday Rally in Grozny]
    http://www.sott.net/article/286964-Happy-birthday-Mr-President-100K-Chechens-gather-to-wish-Putin-a-happy-birthday
    Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?


    {Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit.}
    {This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans}
    {So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now.}
    {I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.}

    Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck.


    {I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin}

    I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me.

    “Your Muslim brethren, from a small base in Mecca, have invaded, occupied, and ethnically cleansed and forcibly Islamized formerly Christian and non-Muslim lands.”

    Rubbish and u know it. Islam spread mostly through the trade (silk road) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam

    “For example, Asia Minor, formerly non-Muslim, pretty much all Christian, was invaded by Muslim Turkic nomad tribes.
    You know from where ? East and Central Asia: Uyguristan.
    Take a look at a map and see how close Uyguristan is to Asia Minor.
    Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe.”

    Again more nonsense, Asia Minor or Anatolia were always crossroads of various empires throughout history way before history. The reality is the people Asia Minor simply converted to Islam en masse when the rulers changed religions when Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity along with his whole realm as was the custom of the day. So there was no such thing as mass forcible conversions as u claim. People were simple peasants who just obeyed their betters in those days and accepted whatever norm the ruling group imposed on them. It was a battle of “Game of Thrones” more than anything representing the masses of any side. But u can continue with you self-affirming fantasies LOL

    Read More
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  145. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {Well maybe because those “muslim brethren” of theirs did not invade and occupy them…}

    Your Muslim brethren, from a small base in Mecca, have invaded, occupied, and ethnically cleansed and forcibly Islamized formerly Christian and non-Muslim lands.
    Millions of square miles.
    For example, Asia Minor, formerly non-Muslim, pretty much all Christian, was invaded by Muslim Turkic nomad tribes.
    You know from where ? East and Central Asia: Uyguristan.
    Take a look at a map and see how close Uyguristan is to Asia Minor.
    Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe.
    When radical Muslims stop invading Christian lands and and stop attempts to forcibly Islamize people, then maybe there will be no more meddling in the affairs of neighboring countries, by e.g. Russia.
    Chechnya had practical independence after the first Chechen war.
    But radical Islamists decided to spread Wahhabism to other nearby Russian Federation republics; so Moscow had to wipe them out.
    With crucial help from Chechens themselves.
    Take a look at this:
    [100,000 Chechens Attend Putin`s Birthday Rally in Grozny]
    http://www.sott.net/article/286964-Happy-birthday-Mr-President-100K-Chechens-gather-to-wish-Putin-a-happy-birthday
    Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?


    {Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit.}
    {This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans}
    {So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now.}
    {I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.}

    Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck.


    {I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin}

    I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me.

    “Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe.”

    Why? If the Ottomans wanted wipe out Christians they would have started long ago right in 1 Anatolia and the Levant but that sort of shit never came close until WW1 with the Armenian Genocide. So if u think the Turks wanted to “wipe out Christians” why did they wait for the worst possible time until 1914 when all their enemies were surrounding and almost colonized them? http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/battle-of-gallipoli

    “Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?”

    Don`t get arrogant and generalize many Chechens are seething with anger at Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzO11vtoi0

    The rest of that is just typical parading and kowtowing by conquered folks.

    “Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck.”

    Projecting much? LOL

    “I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me.”

    Then u are more of moron than I originally thought. Your stupid hate incitement against Central Asians could easily get u killed:

    Skinheads In Russia Killed Armenians – YouTube

    このページを訳す
    2008/12/19 – blyt gandoni skini yobaniy vrot che odin na odin v jopu vas budut yibat da? eti mujiki rabotayut trudom svoyix detey kormyat a vi iz sea patritov delayete shto duxa vashego slavanskogo ne xvatit viyti i odin na odin pizditsa? eto …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Then u are more of moron than I originally thought. Your stupid hate incitement against Central Asians could easily get u killed:}

    Like I said: when losers are unable to put up any logical arguments, they start foaming at the mouth like mange rabid jackals and start throwing insults.

    Makes me feel extra good for having driven the low-lives over the edge.
    Keep blowing steam out of your ears anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth: you will soon fry your bird-brain and disappear.

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  146. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    Gee, Osman, you and I are more than friends, we are the commenting brothers of the same Internet mother. I have never encountered anyone who is so well educated and has such similar attitude. Especially, on the humor as a refuge.

    Sorry I missed the quoted part of your response to annamarina, you are absolutely right that Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was not all milk and honey and that some Russians are racist. But it is hard to measure which nation is more racist than another. So let us leave it at that. What I meant by "smashing up" is not so much physical destruction, bombing etc then destruction of an organized society, as per totally in Libya, half-way in Iraq, on the way in Syria. The US did not do as much "smashing up" in Afghanistan. Nice to know that you are vet from Afghanistan, then you have seen things I could only read about.

    Is humanity doomed? Well, we thought the same in the sixties, but we somehow survived. I am very, very concerned, but I decided that we have to take it as it comes. Everything happens for a reason. If we make humans extinct, then this was the right outcome. If we happen to die in a nuclear holocaust, at least we have voiced our concerns in comments and we will not die silent as we would have in the sixties (lol). And our online activity may help others recognize the dangers and help suppress the forces pushing in this direction.

    I may have found one more difference between you and I - Anthropogenic Global Warming that I regard as an elite's way to save us from ourselves and charge us for the privilege. Climate change, yes, anthropogenic, negligible. So, maybe our agreement is 98%.

    Nevertheless, thanks very much for the links brother.

    So what`s the cause of climate change in your opinion? I`m just an ill-educated soldier who barely earned his BA and now runs a small bar and grill so please school me on that stuff. Otherwise my black face blushes at comments praising me, it aint a pretty sight to look at so please no more flattery okay? LOL! Btw u aint too shabby a verbal jouster yourself mate

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Thanks for the compliment mate. BTW, the level of education does not equate to knowledge. But, I will not take your BA against you, just like you won’t take my skin color against me (lol).

    But, I will try to answer your question seriously, with my personal opinion. I will make a statement and then I will try to justify it: AGW is a construct by the elite to extract more of society's extra value, a semi-voluntary extra tax on the society.

    First, I attended one Pricewaterhouse Coopers conference in the year 2006, just about the time Al Gore's movie An Inconvenient Truth came out. The conference was unrelated to climate, but two speakers from PwC started selling a whole construct of the Climate Change and ways to "solve it" with some estimates of the possible profits. It was a pure investment pitch. The presentation was so detailed and sophisticated that it could not have been prepared in just the last few months. Knowing how plugged in PwC corporation was into the global 0.01%-ers (PwC is in the second tier, below the banksters like Goldman Sachs), this suggested that the whole Climate Change construct was well prepared, years before they chose Al Gore (as a “good” man who declined to create trouble after a stolen election by Bush) to launch the global AGW campaign.

    Second, most of us feel guilty when we consume, and the more developed the country the more we consume, often unreasonably (just waste). Therefore, it is very easy to initiate, through the usual propaganda, that "we must do something about it". I personally abhor unreasonable consumption - I drive a 4-cylinder car, switch off lights in all empty rooms, compost organics and so on.

    Third, you may remember the Y2K craze that the society will fall apart if companies do not spend godzillions of dollars on re-programming all the software because it used only two digits for the year in the dates and year "00" would be the end of times. Some individuals I know who had nothing to do with programming, jumped onto this craze and made $5M-$20M each over a few years before Y2K happened and absolutely nothing happened. These same individuals became the biggest proponents of AGW (no knowledge of computer programming, no knowledge of climate either). What I am trying to say is that the Western society operates on scares as the strongest psychological motivator, from terrorism, to Y2K, to AGW and so on. The end of the World is nigh unless we let someone lead us (politician) or pay someone to save us (war profiteer/bankster).

    Fourth, AGW proponents have been caught fudging the measurements, when the University of East Anglia emails were hacked in the year 2009. It is impressive that AGW proponents control even the Wikipedia page on this scandal.

    Ok, so far this is all just circumstantial evidence. It could be that bad people are promoting AGW, but AGW could still be a reality. So let us have a quick look at the physics of it.

    First, about 50 years ago, much before AGW came about, my primary school biology teacher taught me about chlorophyll and that, in the absence of humans, over the last 1.5 billion years the plants converted more CO2 into O2 then it was efficient for them. In other words, the current concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere of 0.04% is below the optimum concentration for photo-synthesis. Bluntly put, by over-consuming one of their nutrients, the CO2, the plants started starving themselves. Ok, my teacher could have been wrong.

    Second, the Earth’s atmosphere is an extremely complex system of which we do not have a good understanding yet. But we do know that the oceans store more CO2 then there is in the atmosphere, and that underwater and land volcanoes release humongous quantities of it. Then, there is the Earth’s complex orbit and the precession and wobble of the Earth’s axis of rotation. These “natural” sources of CO2 and these astronomical effects exceed human actions by thousands of times. Even to this day we have no idea what caused dynos extinct.

    Third, I have read summaries of a large number of scientific articles on the effects of CO2 and my only conclusion is that CO2 effect on climate is not conclusive either way.

    There is more I could write, but let me summarize. Scientifically, there is no proof either way yet. Socially, I can see the usual profiteers in action. Both the skeptics and the proponents have much money at stake and have invested much money into convincing the population. It appears that AGW proponents may be winning. On the balance of the available facts, I am not prepared to believe in AGW. It may be too late to change things once the effects of AGW start showing, but I am not willing to extend any more credibility credit to the people running the AGW show. For me, they are the same “elite” who bombed Libya into total chaos of a failed state.

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  147. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    Gee, Osman, you and I are more than friends, we are the commenting brothers of the same Internet mother. I have never encountered anyone who is so well educated and has such similar attitude. Especially, on the humor as a refuge.

    Sorry I missed the quoted part of your response to annamarina, you are absolutely right that Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was not all milk and honey and that some Russians are racist. But it is hard to measure which nation is more racist than another. So let us leave it at that. What I meant by "smashing up" is not so much physical destruction, bombing etc then destruction of an organized society, as per totally in Libya, half-way in Iraq, on the way in Syria. The US did not do as much "smashing up" in Afghanistan. Nice to know that you are vet from Afghanistan, then you have seen things I could only read about.

    Is humanity doomed? Well, we thought the same in the sixties, but we somehow survived. I am very, very concerned, but I decided that we have to take it as it comes. Everything happens for a reason. If we make humans extinct, then this was the right outcome. If we happen to die in a nuclear holocaust, at least we have voiced our concerns in comments and we will not die silent as we would have in the sixties (lol). And our online activity may help others recognize the dangers and help suppress the forces pushing in this direction.

    I may have found one more difference between you and I - Anthropogenic Global Warming that I regard as an elite's way to save us from ourselves and charge us for the privilege. Climate change, yes, anthropogenic, negligible. So, maybe our agreement is 98%.

    Nevertheless, thanks very much for the links brother.

    ” you are absolutely right that Soviet intervention in Afghanistan was not all milk and honey and that some Russians are racist. But it is hard to measure which nation is more racist than another. So let us leave it at that. What I meant by “smashing up” is not so much physical destruction, bombing etc then destruction of an organized society, as per totally in Libya, half-way in Iraq, on the way in Syria. The US did not do as much “smashing up” in Afghanistan. Nice to know that you are vet from Afghanistan, then you have seen things I could only read about.

    In my humble opinion as an African I cannot even begin to compare the West with Russia. It`s like light and day with Russia being the day if u ask me. Nonetheless, this does not excuse neo-white nationalists in Russia from abusing ethnic minorities in those countries. They need to be called on it just as much as morons like Rediger and his ilk. Other than that I absolutely agree with the rest of your comment. As one great man one said “it be the truth Ruth” LOL

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  148. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {Well maybe because those “muslim brethren” of theirs did not invade and occupy them…}

    Your Muslim brethren, from a small base in Mecca, have invaded, occupied, and ethnically cleansed and forcibly Islamized formerly Christian and non-Muslim lands.
    Millions of square miles.
    For example, Asia Minor, formerly non-Muslim, pretty much all Christian, was invaded by Muslim Turkic nomad tribes.
    You know from where ? East and Central Asia: Uyguristan.
    Take a look at a map and see how close Uyguristan is to Asia Minor.
    Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe.
    When radical Muslims stop invading Christian lands and and stop attempts to forcibly Islamize people, then maybe there will be no more meddling in the affairs of neighboring countries, by e.g. Russia.
    Chechnya had practical independence after the first Chechen war.
    But radical Islamists decided to spread Wahhabism to other nearby Russian Federation republics; so Moscow had to wipe them out.
    With crucial help from Chechens themselves.
    Take a look at this:
    [100,000 Chechens Attend Putin`s Birthday Rally in Grozny]
    http://www.sott.net/article/286964-Happy-birthday-Mr-President-100K-Chechens-gather-to-wish-Putin-a-happy-birthday
    Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?


    {Then maybe u would have some standing to argue that shit.}
    {This is becoming farcical Avery. I thought you were little smarter than these other idiots but here we go again with strawmans}
    {So if you don`t want these people coming to Russia then get the fuck out of their country and then u will have every right to argue the nonsense u are arguing now.}
    {I hope it never comes to that and I`m pretty confident Putin is not an idiot like u seem to be.}

    Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck.


    {I`m starting to think that u are not a true Russian patriot like The Saker and President Putin}

    I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me.

    This is a more accurate map

    Read More
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  149. Osman says:

    “When radical Muslims stop invading Christian lands and and stop attempts to forcibly Islamize people, then maybe there will be no more meddling in the affairs of neighboring countries, by e.g. Russia.
    Chechnya had practical independence after the first Chechen war.
    But radical Islamists decided to spread Wahhabism to other nearby Russian Federation republics; so Moscow had to wipe them out.
    With crucial help from Chechens themselves.
    Take a look at this:
    C

    Dude you sound totally confused first you say u hate muslims because they have been invading “christian lands” and that u don`t want them in Russia (all though u are an Armenian of the same color as most muslims in Russia) and then suddenly u turn around and tell me muslims in Russia are all good because a[100,000 Chechens Attend Putin`s Birthday Rally in Grozny]

    So which is it? Are Muslims darkies who dont belong in Russia (like your Armenian ass btw) if they don`t belong then should they be considered second or third class citizens in Russia? Please tell me then what the fuck gives darkie Armenians more right to live in Moscow than a darkie Tajik? Religion? If that is so what fuck are Armernians doing in Muslim countries all over the the world like Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, even in Djibouti?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Dude you sound totally confused first you say u hate muslims..}

    Dude, show me where I wrote I allegedly "hate muslims".
    You lying anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth.
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  150. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The world knows that America is the cause of this and many if not all of these crimes against humanity so do not leave it for the last paragraph of your article hated by many especially the muslim world.

    Read More
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  151. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    So what`s the cause of climate change in your opinion? I`m just an ill-educated soldier who barely earned his BA and now runs a small bar and grill so please school me on that stuff. Otherwise my black face blushes at comments praising me, it aint a pretty sight to look at so please no more flattery okay? LOL! Btw u aint too shabby a verbal jouster yourself mate

    Thanks for the compliment mate. BTW, the level of education does not equate to knowledge. But, I will not take your BA against you, just like you won’t take my skin color against me (lol).

    But, I will try to answer your question seriously, with my personal opinion. I will make a statement and then I will try to justify it: AGW is a construct by the elite to extract more of society’s extra value, a semi-voluntary extra tax on the society.

    First, I attended one Pricewaterhouse Coopers conference in the year 2006, just about the time Al Gore’s movie An Inconvenient Truth came out. The conference was unrelated to climate, but two speakers from PwC started selling a whole construct of the Climate Change and ways to “solve it” with some estimates of the possible profits. It was a pure investment pitch. The presentation was so detailed and sophisticated that it could not have been prepared in just the last few months. Knowing how plugged in PwC corporation was into the global 0.01%-ers (PwC is in the second tier, below the banksters like Goldman Sachs), this suggested that the whole Climate Change construct was well prepared, years before they chose Al Gore (as a “good” man who declined to create trouble after a stolen election by Bush) to launch the global AGW campaign.

    Second, most of us feel guilty when we consume, and the more developed the country the more we consume, often unreasonably (just waste). Therefore, it is very easy to initiate, through the usual propaganda, that “we must do something about it”. I personally abhor unreasonable consumption – I drive a 4-cylinder car, switch off lights in all empty rooms, compost organics and so on.

    Third, you may remember the Y2K craze that the society will fall apart if companies do not spend godzillions of dollars on re-programming all the software because it used only two digits for the year in the dates and year “00″ would be the end of times. Some individuals I know who had nothing to do with programming, jumped onto this craze and made $5M-$20M each over a few years before Y2K happened and absolutely nothing happened. These same individuals became the biggest proponents of AGW (no knowledge of computer programming, no knowledge of climate either). What I am trying to say is that the Western society operates on scares as the strongest psychological motivator, from terrorism, to Y2K, to AGW and so on. The end of the World is nigh unless we let someone lead us (politician) or pay someone to save us (war profiteer/bankster).

    Fourth, AGW proponents have been caught fudging the measurements, when the University of East Anglia emails were hacked in the year 2009. It is impressive that AGW proponents control even the Wikipedia page on this scandal.

    Ok, so far this is all just circumstantial evidence. It could be that bad people are promoting AGW, but AGW could still be a reality. So let us have a quick look at the physics of it.

    First, about 50 years ago, much before AGW came about, my primary school biology teacher taught me about chlorophyll and that, in the absence of humans, over the last 1.5 billion years the plants converted more CO2 into O2 then it was efficient for them. In other words, the current concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere of 0.04% is below the optimum concentration for photo-synthesis. Bluntly put, by over-consuming one of their nutrients, the CO2, the plants started starving themselves. Ok, my teacher could have been wrong.

    Second, the Earth’s atmosphere is an extremely complex system of which we do not have a good understanding yet. But we do know that the oceans store more CO2 then there is in the atmosphere, and that underwater and land volcanoes release humongous quantities of it. Then, there is the Earth’s complex orbit and the precession and wobble of the Earth’s axis of rotation. These “natural” sources of CO2 and these astronomical effects exceed human actions by thousands of times. Even to this day we have no idea what caused dynos extinct.

    Third, I have read summaries of a large number of scientific articles on the effects of CO2 and my only conclusion is that CO2 effect on climate is not conclusive either way.

    There is more I could write, but let me summarize. Scientifically, there is no proof either way yet. Socially, I can see the usual profiteers in action. Both the skeptics and the proponents have much money at stake and have invested much money into convincing the population. It appears that AGW proponents may be winning. On the balance of the available facts, I am not prepared to believe in AGW. It may be too late to change things once the effects of AGW start showing, but I am not willing to extend any more credibility credit to the people running the AGW show. For me, they are the same “elite” who bombed Libya into total chaos of a failed state.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    I forgot to mention that Mr Philip Giraldi, who I respect, is a believer in AGW, if not a proponent. I hope he is not a proponent, that would be hugely disappointing.
    , @Osman
    Your take on climate change sounds very plausible but first I would have to do my own research before I make up my mind one way or another. But I wouldn`t put it past those thieving bastards to manipulate science for profit motive like that. It`s not like they haven`t done it before. I remember that ridiculous Y2K bullshit. What a farce that was LOL! But thanks for your fascinating first hand account on this topic. Cheers!
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  152. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    The 911 attacks were planned in your country specifically Hamburg. Should Hamburg be bombed too?
     
    ditto

    John Pepper and the American Committee for East-West Accord (ACEWA)

    A little OT, but I want to introduce. On Wednesday, ACEWA held a briefing in the House of Representatives, “The Crisis in US-Russia Relations, from Ukraine to Syria: Is Congress Overlooking its Causes and Potential Solutions?”. (This will be available, if not video, at least as a transcript.) Totally sane, middle-of-the-road diplomatic stuff, but groundbreaking that it happened at all. And since our MSM and politicians -like Hillary- have NOT been sane or diplomatic, you could call it revolutionary.

    http://eastwestaccord.com/

    John Pepper was new to me, and what a breath of fresh air, a really decent guy. Here’s a piece by him. In a couple places I’m not sure if he’s giving his own opinion or that of the author he’s reviewing.

    http://pepperspectives.blogspot.ru/2015/10/reflections-on-rise-and-reign-of.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    thanks Robin.
    , @Osman
    Seems like an interesting guy. Thanks Robin
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  153. Kiza says:
    @Kiza
    Thanks for the compliment mate. BTW, the level of education does not equate to knowledge. But, I will not take your BA against you, just like you won’t take my skin color against me (lol).

    But, I will try to answer your question seriously, with my personal opinion. I will make a statement and then I will try to justify it: AGW is a construct by the elite to extract more of society's extra value, a semi-voluntary extra tax on the society.

    First, I attended one Pricewaterhouse Coopers conference in the year 2006, just about the time Al Gore's movie An Inconvenient Truth came out. The conference was unrelated to climate, but two speakers from PwC started selling a whole construct of the Climate Change and ways to "solve it" with some estimates of the possible profits. It was a pure investment pitch. The presentation was so detailed and sophisticated that it could not have been prepared in just the last few months. Knowing how plugged in PwC corporation was into the global 0.01%-ers (PwC is in the second tier, below the banksters like Goldman Sachs), this suggested that the whole Climate Change construct was well prepared, years before they chose Al Gore (as a “good” man who declined to create trouble after a stolen election by Bush) to launch the global AGW campaign.

    Second, most of us feel guilty when we consume, and the more developed the country the more we consume, often unreasonably (just waste). Therefore, it is very easy to initiate, through the usual propaganda, that "we must do something about it". I personally abhor unreasonable consumption - I drive a 4-cylinder car, switch off lights in all empty rooms, compost organics and so on.

    Third, you may remember the Y2K craze that the society will fall apart if companies do not spend godzillions of dollars on re-programming all the software because it used only two digits for the year in the dates and year "00" would be the end of times. Some individuals I know who had nothing to do with programming, jumped onto this craze and made $5M-$20M each over a few years before Y2K happened and absolutely nothing happened. These same individuals became the biggest proponents of AGW (no knowledge of computer programming, no knowledge of climate either). What I am trying to say is that the Western society operates on scares as the strongest psychological motivator, from terrorism, to Y2K, to AGW and so on. The end of the World is nigh unless we let someone lead us (politician) or pay someone to save us (war profiteer/bankster).

    Fourth, AGW proponents have been caught fudging the measurements, when the University of East Anglia emails were hacked in the year 2009. It is impressive that AGW proponents control even the Wikipedia page on this scandal.

    Ok, so far this is all just circumstantial evidence. It could be that bad people are promoting AGW, but AGW could still be a reality. So let us have a quick look at the physics of it.

    First, about 50 years ago, much before AGW came about, my primary school biology teacher taught me about chlorophyll and that, in the absence of humans, over the last 1.5 billion years the plants converted more CO2 into O2 then it was efficient for them. In other words, the current concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere of 0.04% is below the optimum concentration for photo-synthesis. Bluntly put, by over-consuming one of their nutrients, the CO2, the plants started starving themselves. Ok, my teacher could have been wrong.

    Second, the Earth’s atmosphere is an extremely complex system of which we do not have a good understanding yet. But we do know that the oceans store more CO2 then there is in the atmosphere, and that underwater and land volcanoes release humongous quantities of it. Then, there is the Earth’s complex orbit and the precession and wobble of the Earth’s axis of rotation. These “natural” sources of CO2 and these astronomical effects exceed human actions by thousands of times. Even to this day we have no idea what caused dynos extinct.

    Third, I have read summaries of a large number of scientific articles on the effects of CO2 and my only conclusion is that CO2 effect on climate is not conclusive either way.

    There is more I could write, but let me summarize. Scientifically, there is no proof either way yet. Socially, I can see the usual profiteers in action. Both the skeptics and the proponents have much money at stake and have invested much money into convincing the population. It appears that AGW proponents may be winning. On the balance of the available facts, I am not prepared to believe in AGW. It may be too late to change things once the effects of AGW start showing, but I am not willing to extend any more credibility credit to the people running the AGW show. For me, they are the same “elite” who bombed Libya into total chaos of a failed state.

    I forgot to mention that Mr Philip Giraldi, who I respect, is a believer in AGW, if not a proponent. I hope he is not a proponent, that would be hugely disappointing.

    Read More
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  154. @RobinG
    John Pepper and the American Committee for East-West Accord (ACEWA)

    A little OT, but I want to introduce. On Wednesday, ACEWA held a briefing in the House of Representatives, "The Crisis in US-Russia Relations, from Ukraine to Syria: Is Congress Overlooking its Causes and Potential Solutions?". (This will be available, if not video, at least as a transcript.) Totally sane, middle-of-the-road diplomatic stuff, but groundbreaking that it happened at all. And since our MSM and politicians -like Hillary- have NOT been sane or diplomatic, you could call it revolutionary.

    http://eastwestaccord.com/

    John Pepper was new to me, and what a breath of fresh air, a really decent guy. Here's a piece by him. In a couple places I'm not sure if he's giving his own opinion or that of the author he's reviewing.

    http://pepperspectives.blogspot.ru/2015/10/reflections-on-rise-and-reign-of.html

    thanks Robin.

    Read More
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  155. Avery says:
    @Osman
    "Muslim Ottoman Turks reached the Gates of Vienna in their quest to wipe out Christianity from Europe."

    Why? If the Ottomans wanted wipe out Christians they would have started long ago right in 1 Anatolia and the Levant but that sort of shit never came close until WW1 with the Armenian Genocide. So if u think the Turks wanted to "wipe out Christians" why did they wait for the worst possible time until 1914 when all their enemies were surrounding and almost colonized them? http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/battle-of-gallipoli

    "Looks like Chechens don’t mind being annexed by Russia, does it?"

    Don`t get arrogant and generalize many Chechens are seething with anger at Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzO11vtoi0

    The rest of that is just typical parading and kowtowing by conquered folks.

    "Steam is coming out your ears, homes.
    Trapped in a self-generated endless loop of illogic, you are losing your composure.
    I have seen that time and time again: when posters I have a “discussion” with have no arguments left, and who are unable to convince anyone other than themselves of their irrational views and nonsense, get frustrated and start slinging muck."

    Projecting much? LOL

    "I am not Russian: I am Armenian.
    And I couldn’t care less what you think about me."

    Then u are more of moron than I originally thought. Your stupid hate incitement against Central Asians could easily get u killed:

    Skinheads In Russia Killed Armenians - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCvPHJp8BnM
    このページを訳す
    2008/12/19 - blyt gandoni skini yobaniy vrot che odin na odin v jopu vas budut yibat da? eti mujiki rabotayut trudom svoyix detey kormyat a vi iz sea patritov delayete shto duxa vashego slavanskogo ne xvatit viyti i odin na odin pizditsa? eto ...

    {Then u are more of moron than I originally thought. Your stupid hate incitement against Central Asians could easily get u killed:}

    Like I said: when losers are unable to put up any logical arguments, they start foaming at the mouth like mange rabid jackals and start throwing insults.

    Makes me feel extra good for having driven the low-lives over the edge.
    Keep blowing steam out of your ears anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth: you will soon fry your bird-brain and disappear.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "Makes me feel extra good for having driven the low-lives over the edge.
    Keep blowing steam out of your ears anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth: you will soon fry your bird-brain and disappear."

    I think u give yourself too much credit Avery but thanks for making my point for me that you are a hate filled bigot. Btw I`m an agnostic so take your Armenian victim complex to your Anatolian cousins the Turks (to me you`re all the same swarthy hairy mass) with rantings about "anti-christian Islamofascists" btw that term comes straight out of the zionist neocon playbook. Are u one of those "losers"?
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  156. Avery says:
    @Osman
    "When radical Muslims stop invading Christian lands and and stop attempts to forcibly Islamize people, then maybe there will be no more meddling in the affairs of neighboring countries, by e.g. Russia.
    Chechnya had practical independence after the first Chechen war.
    But radical Islamists decided to spread Wahhabism to other nearby Russian Federation republics; so Moscow had to wipe them out.
    With crucial help from Chechens themselves.
    Take a look at this:
    C

    Dude you sound totally confused first you say u hate muslims because they have been invading "christian lands" and that u don`t want them in Russia (all though u are an Armenian of the same color as most muslims in Russia) and then suddenly u turn around and tell me muslims in Russia are all good because a[100,000 Chechens Attend Putin`s Birthday Rally in Grozny]

    So which is it? Are Muslims darkies who dont belong in Russia (like your Armenian ass btw) if they don`t belong then should they be considered second or third class citizens in Russia? Please tell me then what the fuck gives darkie Armenians more right to live in Moscow than a darkie Tajik? Religion? If that is so what fuck are Armernians doing in Muslim countries all over the the world like Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, even in Djibouti?

    {Dude you sound totally confused first you say u hate muslims..}

    Dude, show me where I wrote I allegedly “hate muslims”.
    You lying anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "Dude, show me where I wrote I allegedly “hate muslims”.
    You lying anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth."

    A normal person would take that as anti-muslim hate? LOL! But I`m starting to think u are unhinged like some other UNZ commenters I`ve run into lately LOL! Your entire narrative smacks of anti-muslim bigotry (which is understandable considering you are an Armenian). I happen to be sympathetic to the Armenians. I totally and utterly condemn what the Kemalist Young Turks did to the Armenians and other near eastern Christians just like I condemn the current ethnic cleansing by DAESH/ISIS against Christians and other minorities in the region. That is why I support Putin, Assad, and Iran on this issue. Unlike u I hate bullies who pick on defenseless people regardless of their race or religion. I have always been a principled anti-imperialist. Back when I was "a Islamo-fascist filth" in the 90s I got kicked out of my local Muslim Students Association for opposing the imperialist dismemberment of the former Yugoslavia. So don`t lecture me about being "anti-christian" u idiotic Armenian asshole. I find it hilarious that some of u guys accuse blacks and muslims of "victimology" but don`t recognize it in yourselves. The Armenian Genocide racket is just as much a " manipulative victim complex" as the shit some of u bigots accuse Jewish Zionists of. Or Africans who complain about slavery and colonialism. And no I`m not denying the Armenian genocide, it happened and the Turks were guilty of it but the Russian and Orthodox hands weren`t clean either. Not to mention there have been way worse atrocities committed throughout history with some taking place as we speak. So please spare me your "boohoo I`m an Armenian victim" and man up buddy!

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  157. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    Thanks for the compliment mate. BTW, the level of education does not equate to knowledge. But, I will not take your BA against you, just like you won’t take my skin color against me (lol).

    But, I will try to answer your question seriously, with my personal opinion. I will make a statement and then I will try to justify it: AGW is a construct by the elite to extract more of society's extra value, a semi-voluntary extra tax on the society.

    First, I attended one Pricewaterhouse Coopers conference in the year 2006, just about the time Al Gore's movie An Inconvenient Truth came out. The conference was unrelated to climate, but two speakers from PwC started selling a whole construct of the Climate Change and ways to "solve it" with some estimates of the possible profits. It was a pure investment pitch. The presentation was so detailed and sophisticated that it could not have been prepared in just the last few months. Knowing how plugged in PwC corporation was into the global 0.01%-ers (PwC is in the second tier, below the banksters like Goldman Sachs), this suggested that the whole Climate Change construct was well prepared, years before they chose Al Gore (as a “good” man who declined to create trouble after a stolen election by Bush) to launch the global AGW campaign.

    Second, most of us feel guilty when we consume, and the more developed the country the more we consume, often unreasonably (just waste). Therefore, it is very easy to initiate, through the usual propaganda, that "we must do something about it". I personally abhor unreasonable consumption - I drive a 4-cylinder car, switch off lights in all empty rooms, compost organics and so on.

    Third, you may remember the Y2K craze that the society will fall apart if companies do not spend godzillions of dollars on re-programming all the software because it used only two digits for the year in the dates and year "00" would be the end of times. Some individuals I know who had nothing to do with programming, jumped onto this craze and made $5M-$20M each over a few years before Y2K happened and absolutely nothing happened. These same individuals became the biggest proponents of AGW (no knowledge of computer programming, no knowledge of climate either). What I am trying to say is that the Western society operates on scares as the strongest psychological motivator, from terrorism, to Y2K, to AGW and so on. The end of the World is nigh unless we let someone lead us (politician) or pay someone to save us (war profiteer/bankster).

    Fourth, AGW proponents have been caught fudging the measurements, when the University of East Anglia emails were hacked in the year 2009. It is impressive that AGW proponents control even the Wikipedia page on this scandal.

    Ok, so far this is all just circumstantial evidence. It could be that bad people are promoting AGW, but AGW could still be a reality. So let us have a quick look at the physics of it.

    First, about 50 years ago, much before AGW came about, my primary school biology teacher taught me about chlorophyll and that, in the absence of humans, over the last 1.5 billion years the plants converted more CO2 into O2 then it was efficient for them. In other words, the current concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere of 0.04% is below the optimum concentration for photo-synthesis. Bluntly put, by over-consuming one of their nutrients, the CO2, the plants started starving themselves. Ok, my teacher could have been wrong.

    Second, the Earth’s atmosphere is an extremely complex system of which we do not have a good understanding yet. But we do know that the oceans store more CO2 then there is in the atmosphere, and that underwater and land volcanoes release humongous quantities of it. Then, there is the Earth’s complex orbit and the precession and wobble of the Earth’s axis of rotation. These “natural” sources of CO2 and these astronomical effects exceed human actions by thousands of times. Even to this day we have no idea what caused dynos extinct.

    Third, I have read summaries of a large number of scientific articles on the effects of CO2 and my only conclusion is that CO2 effect on climate is not conclusive either way.

    There is more I could write, but let me summarize. Scientifically, there is no proof either way yet. Socially, I can see the usual profiteers in action. Both the skeptics and the proponents have much money at stake and have invested much money into convincing the population. It appears that AGW proponents may be winning. On the balance of the available facts, I am not prepared to believe in AGW. It may be too late to change things once the effects of AGW start showing, but I am not willing to extend any more credibility credit to the people running the AGW show. For me, they are the same “elite” who bombed Libya into total chaos of a failed state.

    Your take on climate change sounds very plausible but first I would have to do my own research before I make up my mind one way or another. But I wouldn`t put it past those thieving bastards to manipulate science for profit motive like that. It`s not like they haven`t done it before. I remember that ridiculous Y2K bullshit. What a farce that was LOL! But thanks for your fascinating first hand account on this topic. Cheers!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    One thing we both can be absolutely sure about is that those who say that "the science (on AGW) is settled" are scumbag idiots. I used to respect some public figures till they uttered this particular sentence (one example, that Canadian scumbag Dr David Suzuki).

    It is totally unscientific to say: "the science has been settled" (in translation "shut-up"). It reminds me of that famous apocryphal utterance that "everything that can be invented has been invented", attributed to Charles H. Duell, who was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899.

    Unfortunately, there are many left-wing idealists and greenies taken for a ride on this AGW rip-off train. There was a wonderful series of articles on the left-wing counterpunch.org titled "How green became the color of money". Therefore, some left-wingers are aware of the money rouse.

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  158. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {Then u are more of moron than I originally thought. Your stupid hate incitement against Central Asians could easily get u killed:}

    Like I said: when losers are unable to put up any logical arguments, they start foaming at the mouth like mange rabid jackals and start throwing insults.

    Makes me feel extra good for having driven the low-lives over the edge.
    Keep blowing steam out of your ears anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth: you will soon fry your bird-brain and disappear.

    “Makes me feel extra good for having driven the low-lives over the edge.
    Keep blowing steam out of your ears anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth: you will soon fry your bird-brain and disappear.”

    I think u give yourself too much credit Avery but thanks for making my point for me that you are a hate filled bigot. Btw I`m an agnostic so take your Armenian victim complex to your Anatolian cousins the Turks (to me you`re all the same swarthy hairy mass) with rantings about “anti-christian Islamofascists” btw that term comes straight out of the zionist neocon playbook. Are u one of those “losers”?

    Read More
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  159. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {Dude you sound totally confused first you say u hate muslims..}

    Dude, show me where I wrote I allegedly "hate muslims".
    You lying anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth.

    “Dude, show me where I wrote I allegedly “hate muslims”.
    You lying anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth.”

    A normal person would take that as anti-muslim hate? LOL! But I`m starting to think u are unhinged like some other UNZ commenters I`ve run into lately LOL! Your entire narrative smacks of anti-muslim bigotry (which is understandable considering you are an Armenian). I happen to be sympathetic to the Armenians. I totally and utterly condemn what the Kemalist Young Turks did to the Armenians and other near eastern Christians just like I condemn the current ethnic cleansing by DAESH/ISIS against Christians and other minorities in the region. That is why I support Putin, Assad, and Iran on this issue. Unlike u I hate bullies who pick on defenseless people regardless of their race or religion. I have always been a principled anti-imperialist. Back when I was “a Islamo-fascist filth” in the 90s I got kicked out of my local Muslim Students Association for opposing the imperialist dismemberment of the former Yugoslavia. So don`t lecture me about being “anti-christian” u idiotic Armenian asshole. I find it hilarious that some of u guys accuse blacks and muslims of “victimology” but don`t recognize it in yourselves. The Armenian Genocide racket is just as much a ” manipulative victim complex” as the shit some of u bigots accuse Jewish Zionists of. Or Africans who complain about slavery and colonialism. And no I`m not denying the Armenian genocide, it happened and the Turks were guilty of it but the Russian and Orthodox hands weren`t clean either. Not to mention there have been way worse atrocities committed throughout history with some taking place as we speak. So please spare me your “boohoo I`m an Armenian victim” and man up buddy!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Back when I was “a Islamo-fascist filth” }

    There you go: even you admit what you are.
    Once an IslamoFascist filth, always an IslamoFascist filth.

    And this latest incoherent assembly of disjointed sentences devoid of any rational purpose is more proof that you are becoming more unhinged with your every post.
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  160. Osman says:
    @RobinG
    John Pepper and the American Committee for East-West Accord (ACEWA)

    A little OT, but I want to introduce. On Wednesday, ACEWA held a briefing in the House of Representatives, "The Crisis in US-Russia Relations, from Ukraine to Syria: Is Congress Overlooking its Causes and Potential Solutions?". (This will be available, if not video, at least as a transcript.) Totally sane, middle-of-the-road diplomatic stuff, but groundbreaking that it happened at all. And since our MSM and politicians -like Hillary- have NOT been sane or diplomatic, you could call it revolutionary.

    http://eastwestaccord.com/

    John Pepper was new to me, and what a breath of fresh air, a really decent guy. Here's a piece by him. In a couple places I'm not sure if he's giving his own opinion or that of the author he's reviewing.

    http://pepperspectives.blogspot.ru/2015/10/reflections-on-rise-and-reign-of.html

    Seems like an interesting guy. Thanks Robin

    Read More
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  161. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    Your take on climate change sounds very plausible but first I would have to do my own research before I make up my mind one way or another. But I wouldn`t put it past those thieving bastards to manipulate science for profit motive like that. It`s not like they haven`t done it before. I remember that ridiculous Y2K bullshit. What a farce that was LOL! But thanks for your fascinating first hand account on this topic. Cheers!

    One thing we both can be absolutely sure about is that those who say that “the science (on AGW) is settled” are scumbag idiots. I used to respect some public figures till they uttered this particular sentence (one example, that Canadian scumbag Dr David Suzuki).

    It is totally unscientific to say: “the science has been settled” (in translation “shut-up”). It reminds me of that famous apocryphal utterance that “everything that can be invented has been invented”, attributed to Charles H. Duell, who was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899.

    Unfortunately, there are many left-wing idealists and greenies taken for a ride on this AGW rip-off train. There was a wonderful series of articles on the left-wing counterpunch.org titled “How green became the color of money“. Therefore, some left-wingers are aware of the money rouse.

    Read More
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  162. Avery says:
    @Osman
    "Dude, show me where I wrote I allegedly “hate muslims”.
    You lying anti-Christian IslamoFascist filth."

    A normal person would take that as anti-muslim hate? LOL! But I`m starting to think u are unhinged like some other UNZ commenters I`ve run into lately LOL! Your entire narrative smacks of anti-muslim bigotry (which is understandable considering you are an Armenian). I happen to be sympathetic to the Armenians. I totally and utterly condemn what the Kemalist Young Turks did to the Armenians and other near eastern Christians just like I condemn the current ethnic cleansing by DAESH/ISIS against Christians and other minorities in the region. That is why I support Putin, Assad, and Iran on this issue. Unlike u I hate bullies who pick on defenseless people regardless of their race or religion. I have always been a principled anti-imperialist. Back when I was "a Islamo-fascist filth" in the 90s I got kicked out of my local Muslim Students Association for opposing the imperialist dismemberment of the former Yugoslavia. So don`t lecture me about being "anti-christian" u idiotic Armenian asshole. I find it hilarious that some of u guys accuse blacks and muslims of "victimology" but don`t recognize it in yourselves. The Armenian Genocide racket is just as much a " manipulative victim complex" as the shit some of u bigots accuse Jewish Zionists of. Or Africans who complain about slavery and colonialism. And no I`m not denying the Armenian genocide, it happened and the Turks were guilty of it but the Russian and Orthodox hands weren`t clean either. Not to mention there have been way worse atrocities committed throughout history with some taking place as we speak. So please spare me your "boohoo I`m an Armenian victim" and man up buddy!

    {Back when I was “a Islamo-fascist filth” }

    There you go: even you admit what you are.
    Once an IslamoFascist filth, always an IslamoFascist filth.

    And this latest incoherent assembly of disjointed sentences devoid of any rational purpose is more proof that you are becoming more unhinged with your every post.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    That`s rich coming from a wannabe "white supremacist". U remind me of one Lebanese Christian guy I used to know back in the States who really hated Muslims and after 911 wore that bigotry on his sleeve in order to show he was more catholic than the pope. Ironically, that didn`t stop him from getting beat up by a couple of White truckers at his own gas station LOL! And thanks for the grammar tips "miss manners"
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  163. Kiza says:
    @Lupa
    No European today thinks they have a "god given right" to invade any country. If we did, we would, or maybe not decolonize them in the first place.
    And how is a country like Poland "directly responsible" for what's essentially US foreign policy?

    The only racism here is your limitless contempt for all white people, and your sweeping generalizations using your dumbed-down version of history.

    “And how is a country like Poland “directly responsible” for what’s essentially US foreign policy?”

    When one beautiful sunny day Poland manages to crawl out of the US ass, then maybe we could talk about subjects such as “direct responsibility”. Till then, Poland will stink too much to talk about, due to its prime location inside the US bowel just behind the Baltic states.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Yup. But there are some (okay, fringe, and they have to be 'ex-official' before they dare speak) who want to escape their Fecal Position. This should be encouraged.

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article189087.html
    NATO is the American occupation of Poland and Europe, by Mateusz Piskorski

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.noguerranonato.it/&prev=search
    "No War-No NATO"
    Bring Italy out of the war system Implement Article 11 of the Constitution


    The Call for the Oct. 26 Conference Read in Part:
    October-November, 2015: In the southern Mediterranean, using the base at Trapani Birgi (Sicily), NATO is carrying out its exercise code named TRIDENT JUNCTURE 2015, one of the largest naval and aerial exercises since 1945. These are experiments for war against our neighbors, where Italy is being used as the US-NATO aircraft carrier for present and future aggression.

    Perverted from a defensive organization into an offensive one, NATO is dragging us from war to war. In the Middle East and North Africa, in conjunction with its Gulf allies and jihadi extremists, NATO is the leading force in the destruction of States and nations.

    In Ukraine, following the coup d’etat that did away with the legitimate government, NATO is training Neonazi militia units, promotes civil war, and threatens Russia.

    The wars generated by NATO and its puppet terrorist organizations cause the flight and migration of entire populations. The upgrading of Western nuclear armaments and the multiplication of military bases around the world threaten a new world war.


    Article by Peter Koenig-
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/italys-no-guerra-no-nato-the-people-of-europe-against-nato-and-washingtons-hegemony/5484347

    "We, the people of Europe have to stand up against NATO. We must not let go. We must persist, until Europe is free from NATO, free from the Washington hegemony, free from political and financial coercions. We must look to alternatives – and alternatives exist."
     
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  164. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:

    In the end, when you talk to someone like Osman, they always want their people to have free access to your stuff. He wants his to benefit at the expense of ours, it really is that simple.

    Every argument and word uttered by him in pursuit of that aim is just an attempt to rationalise his own shamelessness and to persuade you not to resist.

    He will use any lie or easy argument, and when defeated will just switch to an infinite number of self-justifying alternatives.

    No one could be more simple and no one could be more shameless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Couldn't have said it any better.
    , @Osman
    "In the end, when you talk to someone like Osman, they always want their people to have free access to your stuff. He wants his to benefit at the expense of ours, it really is that simple"

    The sociopath will always accuse you of doing the very thing that they are guilty of themselves. In this case, the irony of White Europeans who went and STILL GO around the world killing and robbing accusing others of wanting their precious "stuff" or more precisely the stolen goods they have accumulated over the centuries. Yes indeed the European imperialist/sociopath knows no shame http://www.md-health.com/Sociopath-Traits.html European imperialists like Rediger fit this profile to the tee. LOL!

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  165. RobinG says:
    @Kiza
    "And how is a country like Poland “directly responsible” for what’s essentially US foreign policy?"

    When one beautiful sunny day Poland manages to crawl out of the US ass, then maybe we could talk about subjects such as "direct responsibility". Till then, Poland will stink too much to talk about, due to its prime location inside the US bowel just behind the Baltic states.

    Yup. But there are some (okay, fringe, and they have to be ‘ex-official’ before they dare speak) who want to escape their Fecal Position. This should be encouraged.

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article189087.html

    NATO is the American occupation of Poland and Europe, by Mateusz Piskorski

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.noguerranonato.it/&prev=search

    “No War-No NATO”
    Bring Italy out of the war system Implement Article 11 of the Constitution

    The Call for the Oct. 26 Conference Read in Part:
    October-November, 2015: In the southern Mediterranean, using the base at Trapani Birgi (Sicily), NATO is carrying out its exercise code named TRIDENT JUNCTURE 2015, one of the largest naval and aerial exercises since 1945. These are experiments for war against our neighbors, where Italy is being used as the US-NATO aircraft carrier for present and future aggression.

    Perverted from a defensive organization into an offensive one, NATO is dragging us from war to war. In the Middle East and North Africa, in conjunction with its Gulf allies and jihadi extremists, NATO is the leading force in the destruction of States and nations.

    In Ukraine, following the coup d’etat that did away with the legitimate government, NATO is training Neonazi militia units, promotes civil war, and threatens Russia.

    The wars generated by NATO and its puppet terrorist organizations cause the flight and migration of entire populations. The upgrading of Western nuclear armaments and the multiplication of military bases around the world threaten a new world war.

    Article by Peter Koenig-

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/italys-no-guerra-no-nato-the-people-of-europe-against-nato-and-washingtons-hegemony/5484347

    “We, the people of Europe have to stand up against NATO. We must not let go. We must persist, until Europe is free from NATO, free from the Washington hegemony, free from political and financial coercions. We must look to alternatives – and alternatives exist.”

    Read More
    • Agree: SolontoCroesus, Kiza
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  166. Avery says:
    @This Is Our Home
    In the end, when you talk to someone like Osman, they always want their people to have free access to your stuff. He wants his to benefit at the expense of ours, it really is that simple.

    Every argument and word uttered by him in pursuit of that aim is just an attempt to rationalise his own shamelessness and to persuade you not to resist.

    He will use any lie or easy argument, and when defeated will just switch to an infinite number of self-justifying alternatives.

    No one could be more simple and no one could be more shameless.

    Couldn’t have said it any better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    That`s rich coming from an Armenian mooch whose people live all over the Muslim World. So Avery why are your people living in the Muslim World again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora Why don`t they "leave muslim lands" and go to their "christian brothers" as u like to say? LOL
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  167. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    Links please? I don`t doubt an isolated incident of rape or murder might happen but I find it next to implausible that African refugees are on some rape and murder spree in Italy. I call bullshit. Prove me wrong with multiple links showing crime statistics. How do we know you were "just minding your business"? Should we just take your word that they made "sexual suggestions" towards you? People with your sort of views aren`t known for their credibility or truthfulness. I just gave you a link that showed African refugees sleeping rough in Italy and you are still claiming this "four star hotel" nonsense. However, I don`t doubt that some refugees would resort to begging. Destitute and desperate refugees tend to do that. Stop being a drama queen, no one is threatening you physically and u know that very well, even if they wanted to they couldn`t since they are a destitute and highly vulnerable minority. Just admit it you just don`t like to see the sight of these people in your precious "Europe". No fear just hate. At least be honest about it like the others here.

    My comments don’t need your approval. And I have no intention of posting images taken showing the same enrichers lounging outside four-star hotels and wading through traffic with their palms open and nauseating Cheshire grins. It’s not my fault you cannot accept the ugly realities of African migration anywhere-be it to a neighbourhood, city or nation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    So in other words u have nothing. Cheers Kat! LOL So tell me what are u people doing in Africa again? I`ll say it again, when u whites go home and I mean really go home (for more see my earlier comments) then we will go home and you will have every right to argue what u are arguing now. But it seems to me what u want is impunity for your actions. You want to be able to invade, occupy, colonize, settle, economically exploit, et... without any repercussions. That is pure unadulterated oh gasp! white privilege. Now go ahead and bang your pretty head against the wall of reality again. This situation is only going to get worse so get those gas chambers ready baby LOL!
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  168. joe webb says:

    fyi, is this the same guy? “Philip Giraldi, a former military intelligence and C.I.A. case officer, is executive director of the Council for the National Interest.”

    ..from jewyorktimes:

    If so, it explains everything.
    Joe Webb

    I wonder is you guys here ever consider The Una Review as a place to suck-out the anti-semites and other Enemies of the State.

    In case you do not know what sucking-out is, it is the practice of good cop-bad cop. Good cop is nice and sympathetic and gets you jailed more successfully than bad cop.

    Joe Webb

    let me tell you, you are trusting a good cop there. Your remarks go into various data banks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "I wonder is you guys here ever consider The Una Review as a place to suck-out the anti-semites and other Enemies of the State.

    In case you do not know what sucking-out is, it is the practice of good cop-bad cop. Good cop is nice and sympathetic and gets you jailed more successfully than bad cop."

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! Paranoid much there Joe? Quit shitting your pants u coward LOL! What are u 16? Jeesh!

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  169. joe webb says:
    @Osman
    Training with Croatians I found them to be some very under achieving morons to be frank compared to Turks or Armenians who were may agile.

    Turks at 90 IQ, Croats at 90, and Armenia at 95, per RichardLynn.

    Why anybody gives this Osman any time is beyond me. He is a killer of Whites and White Civilization.

    He apparently knows the difference between a bell curve and its, say top 10% but will obscure any reasonable point, for example, that while Croatian IQ has been sullied by Turks and Arabs, there is that top 10% nevertheless, and probably the top 2 % in the case of Tom Sunic, an academic.

    Osman will ad hominem the man but refuse the argue his article. This is the mark of a killer.
    Osman is a de-colonialist commie type and should be ignored.

    By the way, Whites will once again distinguish themselves by merely repatriating the wretched and not killing them. The wretched will start killing us, led by the likes of Osman, in which Whites will slowly start returning the complement, so if Osman really cared about social peace, and not revenge, he would agree to Return of Immigrants.

    The only way to a relatively peaceful world is No Immigration or Race mixing. Every country with mixed ethnys is mired in war or mistrust, even White countries (!). Irish/English, Flemish?Walloons, and so on. Osman is a communist, and it is that simple, not far from the sacker.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Who let the lunatics out today?

    "Why anybody gives this Osman any time is beyond me. He is a killer of Whites and White Civilization."

    Sorry never had the honor unless u count Iraqis and Afghans as "White" LOL

    "Osman will ad hominem the man but refuse the argue his article. This is the mark of a killer."

    Do u even know the meaning of ad hominem? I maybe a killer now but I wasn`t one until I joined your stupid military. Killer courtesy and on behalf of Uncle Sam.

    "Osman is a de-colonialist commie type and should be ignored."

    "Commie" me thinks not but damn proud anti-imperialist.

    "By the way, Whites will once again distinguish themselves by merely repatriating the wretched and not killing them. The wretched will start killing us, led by the likes of Osman, in which Whites will slowly start returning the complement, so if Osman really cared about social peace, and not revenge, he would agree to Return of Immigrants."

    Okay no problem! Start the ball rolling and leave every place you people invaded and settled starting with the Americas, Southern Africa, Kenya, moving on to the Indian ocean islands, then on to Australia, New Zealand, Hawai, and other pacific islands. And of course don`t forget to take your troops, drones/planes, navies, military bases, mercenaries, "loutish" expat losers, companies (in my case your thieving fishing trawlers), stop dumping toxic waste on our shores http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/dumped-in-africa-britain8217s-toxic-waste-1624869.html. And then we can all go home and call it a day. Until then stop whining and moaning and keep jerking off to your "IQ score".
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  170. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {Back when I was “a Islamo-fascist filth” }

    There you go: even you admit what you are.
    Once an IslamoFascist filth, always an IslamoFascist filth.

    And this latest incoherent assembly of disjointed sentences devoid of any rational purpose is more proof that you are becoming more unhinged with your every post.

    That`s rich coming from a wannabe “white supremacist”. U remind me of one Lebanese Christian guy I used to know back in the States who really hated Muslims and after 911 wore that bigotry on his sleeve in order to show he was more catholic than the pope. Ironically, that didn`t stop him from getting beat up by a couple of White truckers at his own gas station LOL! And thanks for the grammar tips “miss manners”

    Read More
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  171. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home
    In the end, when you talk to someone like Osman, they always want their people to have free access to your stuff. He wants his to benefit at the expense of ours, it really is that simple.

    Every argument and word uttered by him in pursuit of that aim is just an attempt to rationalise his own shamelessness and to persuade you not to resist.

    He will use any lie or easy argument, and when defeated will just switch to an infinite number of self-justifying alternatives.

    No one could be more simple and no one could be more shameless.

    “In the end, when you talk to someone like Osman, they always want their people to have free access to your stuff. He wants his to benefit at the expense of ours, it really is that simple”

    The sociopath will always accuse you of doing the very thing that they are guilty of themselves. In this case, the irony of White Europeans who went and STILL GO around the world killing and robbing accusing others of wanting their precious “stuff” or more precisely the stolen goods they have accumulated over the centuries. Yes indeed the European imperialist/sociopath knows no shame http://www.md-health.com/Sociopath-Traits.html European imperialists like Rediger fit this profile to the tee. LOL!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    This is called self-projection in psychology, allocating your own intentions into your opponent.

    But I am still lost as to how the Osman Critics fail to see that it is not the Muslims, the Darkies and other "migrants" who are initiating trouble. People who have been dispossess by USrael with EU assistance will take advantage of EU's social support and refugee support system. Would you not if you were in their situation (lie to me that you would not, because I would)? But why did it have to come to this in the first place?

    In the old times of the British Empire, for example, the British could massacre the Mau Mau in Kenya and nothing would come back their way in the form of a wave of refugees. But the neo-colonialists can only dream about such clean massacres now.

    So what do they do now? Through MSM they kill the connection between the cause and the consequence and re-focus the domestic cattle onto hating the refugees ("the freeloaders") instead of stopping the "democracy bringing" military interventions in the lands from which most refugees come from. Would any EU leader dare mention to Obama - regime change in Syria is a no go, all support for our terrorists ("moderate rebels") has to cease immediately. Well, even then the refugees would not stop because a huge damage has already been done.

    Yet the EU leaders keep sucking warts on Obama's and Netanyahu's bottom and blaming the refugees for coming.

    , @This Is Our Home
    Sorry did I imagine the millions of Turks living in Europe and somehow miss the million of Europeans living in Turkey?
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  172. Osman says:
    @Avery
    Couldn't have said it any better.

    That`s rich coming from an Armenian mooch whose people live all over the Muslim World. So Avery why are your people living in the Muslim World again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora Why don`t they “leave muslim lands” and go to their “christian brothers” as u like to say? LOL

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {So Avery why are your people living in the Muslim World again?}

    My people are living in Muslim countries, because Muslim Turk IslamoFascists from Uyguristan, you know, IslamaFascists like you, invaded our homeland and committed ethnic cleansing Genocide.
    The Turk nomads are still squatting on our lands.
    As soon as they leave, we'll leave.
    Deal ?

    {Why don`t they “leave muslim lands” and go to their “christian brothers” as u like to say?}
    They are.
    Middle East has been almost completely ethnically cleansed of Christians.
    By your IslamoFascist co-religionists.

    So Osman, when are you and your IslamoFascist gang leaving our Christian lands and going back to Mecca, back to your Wahhabist IslamoFascist den.
    Why are you still living in Christian West and mooching off of Christian taxpayers ?
    Why are you mooching off of an American web site to spread your anti-Western IslamoFascist hate ?

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  173. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    My comments don't need your approval. And I have no intention of posting images taken showing the same enrichers lounging outside four-star hotels and wading through traffic with their palms open and nauseating Cheshire grins. It's not my fault you cannot accept the ugly realities of African migration anywhere-be it to a neighbourhood, city or nation.

    So in other words u have nothing. Cheers Kat! LOL So tell me what are u people doing in Africa again? I`ll say it again, when u whites go home and I mean really go home (for more see my earlier comments) then we will go home and you will have every right to argue what u are arguing now. But it seems to me what u want is impunity for your actions. You want to be able to invade, occupy, colonize, settle, economically exploit, et… without any repercussions. That is pure unadulterated oh gasp! white privilege. Now go ahead and bang your pretty head against the wall of reality again. This situation is only going to get worse so get those gas chambers ready baby LOL!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built? Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it.
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  174. Osman says:
    @joe webb
    Turks at 90 IQ, Croats at 90, and Armenia at 95, per RichardLynn.

    Why anybody gives this Osman any time is beyond me. He is a killer of Whites and White Civilization.

    He apparently knows the difference between a bell curve and its, say top 10% but will obscure any reasonable point, for example, that while Croatian IQ has been sullied by Turks and Arabs, there is that top 10% nevertheless, and probably the top 2 % in the case of Tom Sunic, an academic.

    Osman will ad hominem the man but refuse the argue his article. This is the mark of a killer.
    Osman is a de-colonialist commie type and should be ignored.

    By the way, Whites will once again distinguish themselves by merely repatriating the wretched and not killing them. The wretched will start killing us, led by the likes of Osman, in which Whites will slowly start returning the complement, so if Osman really cared about social peace, and not revenge, he would agree to Return of Immigrants.

    The only way to a relatively peaceful world is No Immigration or Race mixing. Every country with mixed ethnys is mired in war or mistrust, even White countries (!). Irish/English, Flemish?Walloons, and so on. Osman is a communist, and it is that simple, not far from the sacker.

    Joe Webb

    Who let the lunatics out today?

    “Why anybody gives this Osman any time is beyond me. He is a killer of Whites and White Civilization.”

    Sorry never had the honor unless u count Iraqis and Afghans as “White” LOL

    “Osman will ad hominem the man but refuse the argue his article. This is the mark of a killer.”

    Do u even know the meaning of ad hominem? I maybe a killer now but I wasn`t one until I joined your stupid military. Killer courtesy and on behalf of Uncle Sam.

    “Osman is a de-colonialist commie type and should be ignored.”

    “Commie” me thinks not but damn proud anti-imperialist.

    “By the way, Whites will once again distinguish themselves by merely repatriating the wretched and not killing them. The wretched will start killing us, led by the likes of Osman, in which Whites will slowly start returning the complement, so if Osman really cared about social peace, and not revenge, he would agree to Return of Immigrants.”

    Okay no problem! Start the ball rolling and leave every place you people invaded and settled starting with the Americas, Southern Africa, Kenya, moving on to the Indian ocean islands, then on to Australia, New Zealand, Hawai, and other pacific islands. And of course don`t forget to take your troops, drones/planes, navies, military bases, mercenaries, “loutish” expat losers, companies (in my case your thieving fishing trawlers), stop dumping toxic waste on our shores http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/dumped-in-africa-britain8217s-toxic-waste-1624869.html. And then we can all go home and call it a day. Until then stop whining and moaning and keep jerking off to your “IQ score”.

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    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    Osman, one question. Were you press-ganged into the US military? If the answer is no then shut up about having joined of your own free will.
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  175. Osman says:
    @joe webb
    fyi, is this the same guy? "Philip Giraldi, a former military intelligence and C.I.A. case officer, is executive director of the Council for the National Interest."

    ..from jewyorktimes:

    If so, it explains everything.
    Joe Webb

    I wonder is you guys here ever consider The Una Review as a place to suck-out the anti-semites and other Enemies of the State.

    In case you do not know what sucking-out is, it is the practice of good cop-bad cop. Good cop is nice and sympathetic and gets you jailed more successfully than bad cop.

    Joe Webb

    let me tell you, you are trusting a good cop there. Your remarks go into various data banks.

    “I wonder is you guys here ever consider The Una Review as a place to suck-out the anti-semites and other Enemies of the State.

    In case you do not know what sucking-out is, it is the practice of good cop-bad cop. Good cop is nice and sympathetic and gets you jailed more successfully than bad cop.”

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! Paranoid much there Joe? Quit shitting your pants u coward LOL! What are u 16? Jeesh!

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  176. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    "In the end, when you talk to someone like Osman, they always want their people to have free access to your stuff. He wants his to benefit at the expense of ours, it really is that simple"

    The sociopath will always accuse you of doing the very thing that they are guilty of themselves. In this case, the irony of White Europeans who went and STILL GO around the world killing and robbing accusing others of wanting their precious "stuff" or more precisely the stolen goods they have accumulated over the centuries. Yes indeed the European imperialist/sociopath knows no shame http://www.md-health.com/Sociopath-Traits.html European imperialists like Rediger fit this profile to the tee. LOL!

    This is called self-projection in psychology, allocating your own intentions into your opponent.

    But I am still lost as to how the Osman Critics fail to see that it is not the Muslims, the Darkies and other “migrants” who are initiating trouble. People who have been dispossess by USrael with EU assistance will take advantage of EU’s social support and refugee support system. Would you not if you were in their situation (lie to me that you would not, because I would)? But why did it have to come to this in the first place?

    In the old times of the British Empire, for example, the British could massacre the Mau Mau in Kenya and nothing would come back their way in the form of a wave of refugees. But the neo-colonialists can only dream about such clean massacres now.

    So what do they do now? Through MSM they kill the connection between the cause and the consequence and re-focus the domestic cattle onto hating the refugees (“the freeloaders”) instead of stopping the “democracy bringing” military interventions in the lands from which most refugees come from. Would any EU leader dare mention to Obama – regime change in Syria is a no go, all support for our terrorists (“moderate rebels”) has to cease immediately. Well, even then the refugees would not stop because a huge damage has already been done.

    Yet the EU leaders keep sucking warts on Obama’s and Netanyahu’s bottom and blaming the refugees for coming.

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  177. Migrant Crisis
    How the Italians are dealing with it

    Let us go to Paris

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  178. Avery says:
    @Osman
    That`s rich coming from an Armenian mooch whose people live all over the Muslim World. So Avery why are your people living in the Muslim World again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora Why don`t they "leave muslim lands" and go to their "christian brothers" as u like to say? LOL

    {So Avery why are your people living in the Muslim World again?}

    My people are living in Muslim countries, because Muslim Turk IslamoFascists from Uyguristan, you know, IslamaFascists like you, invaded our homeland and committed ethnic cleansing Genocide.
    The Turk nomads are still squatting on our lands.
    As soon as they leave, we’ll leave.
    Deal ?

    {Why don`t they “leave muslim lands” and go to their “christian brothers” as u like to say?}
    They are.
    Middle East has been almost completely ethnically cleansed of Christians.
    By your IslamoFascist co-religionists.

    So Osman, when are you and your IslamoFascist gang leaving our Christian lands and going back to Mecca, back to your Wahhabist IslamoFascist den.
    Why are you still living in Christian West and mooching off of Christian taxpayers ?
    Why are you mooching off of an American web site to spread your anti-Western IslamoFascist hate ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    ....and the so-called "the Muslim World" was not a Muslim World, until IslamoFascist mass-murderers left their birthplace in Mecca and spread death and destruction throughout Middle East: the birthplace of Christianity.
    , @Osman
    You do know that most Muslims are not Wahhabi and not from Mecca, right? Or is that your usual Avery blather? If you have a beef with your fellow hairy Anatolian cousins the Turks then by all means have at it boss but stop including 1.5 billion other people? So why are u mooching Armenians in Iran again? Iranians are not "turkish nomads from uyguristan" but a muslim country nonetheless yet you have no problem building your churches there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Armenian_churches_in_Iran. Dude you`re all over the place get back to me when you get your head in order. Btw I don`t live in the "christian west" anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there. As a hairy Armenian darkie, you are not a "Westerner" no matter how hard u try and kiss their ass u will end up like that dumb ass Lebanese Christian I mentioned before, rejected and humiliated for looking "Ayraab". Western racists don`t give a shit about Christianity if they did they wouldn`t be unleashing Wahhabi terrorists on your people in Syria and Iraq and other muslims like Iran, Kurds and Lebanese Shia would not be coming to the rescue of your fellow Christians including Syrian Armenians. So much for me being an "Islamofascist" on the contrary it seems u are the one on the side of the imperialists and hence same team as the "wahhabis" u harp on about. Remember wahhabi Saudis are fully pro-western.
    So now commenting on websites is "mooching"? In Avery world maybe LOL! Dude you are getting crazier by the minute. I sincerely suggest u seek some help.
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  179. Avery says:
    @Avery
    {So Avery why are your people living in the Muslim World again?}

    My people are living in Muslim countries, because Muslim Turk IslamoFascists from Uyguristan, you know, IslamaFascists like you, invaded our homeland and committed ethnic cleansing Genocide.
    The Turk nomads are still squatting on our lands.
    As soon as they leave, we'll leave.
    Deal ?

    {Why don`t they “leave muslim lands” and go to their “christian brothers” as u like to say?}
    They are.
    Middle East has been almost completely ethnically cleansed of Christians.
    By your IslamoFascist co-religionists.

    So Osman, when are you and your IslamoFascist gang leaving our Christian lands and going back to Mecca, back to your Wahhabist IslamoFascist den.
    Why are you still living in Christian West and mooching off of Christian taxpayers ?
    Why are you mooching off of an American web site to spread your anti-Western IslamoFascist hate ?

    ….and the so-called “the Muslim World” was not a Muslim World, until IslamoFascist mass-murderers left their birthplace in Mecca and spread death and destruction throughout Middle East: the birthplace of Christianity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    "….and the so-called “the Muslim World” was not a Muslim World, until IslamoFascist mass-murderers left their birthplace in Mecca and spread death and destruction throughout Middle East: the birthplace of Christianity."

    And what was it before that? What happened to all those Jews and Pagans that lived there? Weren`t they forcibly converted to Christianity by your lovely Constantine? What`s a little forcible conversion between friends eh LOL! What goes around comes around Avery. Most Muslims of the Levant are the same exact people as the Christians of the Levant they are all of North Semitic origin. Religions may change but the people are still there. Even the present day Palestinian (both Muslim and Christian) trace their ancestry to the indigenous Judeans and have more "Jewish" blood than the so called Ashkenazi settlers from Europe. If u want to learn more about this read Shlomo Sand http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

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  180. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    "In the end, when you talk to someone like Osman, they always want their people to have free access to your stuff. He wants his to benefit at the expense of ours, it really is that simple"

    The sociopath will always accuse you of doing the very thing that they are guilty of themselves. In this case, the irony of White Europeans who went and STILL GO around the world killing and robbing accusing others of wanting their precious "stuff" or more precisely the stolen goods they have accumulated over the centuries. Yes indeed the European imperialist/sociopath knows no shame http://www.md-health.com/Sociopath-Traits.html European imperialists like Rediger fit this profile to the tee. LOL!

    Sorry did I imagine the millions of Turks living in Europe and somehow miss the million of Europeans living in Turkey?

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  181. @Kat Grey
    Viewing the Italian immigrant crisis as a misty-eyed tourist is not quite the same thing as having to live with the daily spectacle of young African men begging from motorists, loitering outside the four-star hotels (where they are housed and fed at taxpayer's expense) and wandering around bus and train stations beer bottles in hand. Pensioners have been murdered inside their own homes, women gang-raped. Italian girls have had to alter their lifestyle with many afraid to go out at night unless as part of a large group. I have been insulted by these African seekers-of-a-better life so much so that I fear they are actually in search of a better wife.

    The sooner they are deported the easier most of us will sleep at night. And us women can take back the streets.

    Agreed. Which is why I moved out of Oakland last month.

    As a child, my father was career Army, in 1980, I started elementary school in Ft. Hood., then off to Bremerhaven for 2nd – 5th. German vs. American culture at that time was interesting – they were both so similar yet so very distinct that it was quite apparent that all stereotypes about each culture were true.

    Wonde what my experience would be like as a child in Bremerhaven today (yes, I know the base is now closed, don’t let facts get in the way of my internet pontificating)

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  182. Osman says:
    @Avery
    {So Avery why are your people living in the Muslim World again?}

    My people are living in Muslim countries, because Muslim Turk IslamoFascists from Uyguristan, you know, IslamaFascists like you, invaded our homeland and committed ethnic cleansing Genocide.
    The Turk nomads are still squatting on our lands.
    As soon as they leave, we'll leave.
    Deal ?

    {Why don`t they “leave muslim lands” and go to their “christian brothers” as u like to say?}
    They are.
    Middle East has been almost completely ethnically cleansed of Christians.
    By your IslamoFascist co-religionists.

    So Osman, when are you and your IslamoFascist gang leaving our Christian lands and going back to Mecca, back to your Wahhabist IslamoFascist den.
    Why are you still living in Christian West and mooching off of Christian taxpayers ?
    Why are you mooching off of an American web site to spread your anti-Western IslamoFascist hate ?

    You do know that most Muslims are not Wahhabi and not from Mecca, right? Or is that your usual Avery blather? If you have a beef with your fellow hairy Anatolian cousins the Turks then by all means have at it boss but stop including 1.5 billion other people? So why are u mooching Armenians in Iran again? Iranians are not “turkish nomads from uyguristan” but a muslim country nonetheless yet you have no problem building your churches there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Armenian_churches_in_Iran. Dude you`re all over the place get back to me when you get your head in order. Btw I don`t live in the “christian west” anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there. As a hairy Armenian darkie, you are not a “Westerner” no matter how hard u try and kiss their ass u will end up like that dumb ass Lebanese Christian I mentioned before, rejected and humiliated for looking “Ayraab”. Western racists don`t give a shit about Christianity if they did they wouldn`t be unleashing Wahhabi terrorists on your people in Syria and Iraq and other muslims like Iran, Kurds and Lebanese Shia would not be coming to the rescue of your fellow Christians including Syrian Armenians. So much for me being an “Islamofascist” on the contrary it seems u are the one on the side of the imperialists and hence same team as the “wahhabis” u harp on about. Remember wahhabi Saudis are fully pro-western.
    So now commenting on websites is “mooching”? In Avery world maybe LOL! Dude you are getting crazier by the minute. I sincerely suggest u seek some help.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Religion is not inherently evil. It is one of the most primal needs to humans to believe in something outside of themselves and most religions are humane, including Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

    As much as guns do not kill people, then bad people kill people, so much religion does not kill (other, non-believing) people, bad people kill people of other religions. It is the extremists in every religion who do all bad things. But people also have a need to generalize and pass judgement (Jesus mentioned something about passing judgement on others). Thus, they blame "the other religion".

    If the extremists, such as the Jewish Neocons, did not have their religion, they would be communists, or nationalists or would kill in the name of their favorite drink, or whatever. All people want something or do something first and then they find or create justification for it after - bad people use ideology, religion, country, football club (soccer violence in Europe), as a cover for their miserable actions. Bad deeds first, justification later. The Neocons, for example, wanted Greater Israel first, then they "found" that Iraq had WMD or that Israel is threatened by Iran.

    PS. I am not religious, but do not take that against me either, lol.

    , @Avery
    {Btw I don`t live in the “christian west” anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there.}

    The fact is you did. You did mooch off the Western society.
    You did mooch off the majority Christian population of North America.
    You admitted being an IslamoFascist in your previous life.
    You lived off the generosity of the Western, Christian society of North America, and like a typical IslamoFascist ingrate, are now spreading hate against it - using a North American web site, free of charge.

    {As a hairy Armenian darkie,.... }

    All those "adventures" you had in your life have really warped and scrambled the few brain cells that you had. I'd say you lost most of them in the IslamoFascist phase of your life.

    {Remember wahhabi Saudis are fully pro-western.}

    Saudis are not pro-Western: No Wahhabist can ever be pro-Western.
    Saudis kings and the entire inbred sheikdom are buying protection from US Neocons, nothing more.
    Saudi Wahhabists are the definition of anti-Western and anti-Christian.
    Shows how little you know about so many things.

    And you are confused about the concept of 'Western': you are confusing the governments which currently run most of the power-states of Western civilization, with the Western civilization.
    The Neocons who have infected and infested the governments of the noted countries of the West are anti-Christian and anti-Western civilization.

    And you are also confused about what is 'whitee', what is 'darkie',....
    And the reason you are confused, is because you were damaged.
    You were damaged, because you apparently were trying desperately to be 'accepted' by the 'whitee', were rejected, and went over the edge.

    , @Avery
    {...Btw I don`t live in the “christian west” anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there.....}

    Not only are you an ingrate IslamoFascist, but you are a hypocrite to boot.

    Before immigrating to "occupied stolen lands in North America" you knew quite well the history of how North America came to be populated by 'whitee' Europeans and later descendants of African slaves. Yet you had no problem living X number of years in those "occupied stolen lands" and benefiting - mooching - of the prosperous country 'whitee' created on those "occupied stolen lands".

    After gorging yourself on the largess of the 'whitee' and having your fill, you decided to suddenly remember that those lands were "occupied stolen lands".

    How convenient.

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  183. Osman says:
    @Avery
    ....and the so-called "the Muslim World" was not a Muslim World, until IslamoFascist mass-murderers left their birthplace in Mecca and spread death and destruction throughout Middle East: the birthplace of Christianity.

    “….and the so-called “the Muslim World” was not a Muslim World, until IslamoFascist mass-murderers left their birthplace in Mecca and spread death and destruction throughout Middle East: the birthplace of Christianity.”

    And what was it before that? What happened to all those Jews and Pagans that lived there? Weren`t they forcibly converted to Christianity by your lovely Constantine? What`s a little forcible conversion between friends eh LOL! What goes around comes around Avery. Most Muslims of the Levant are the same exact people as the Christians of the Levant they are all of North Semitic origin. Religions may change but the people are still there. Even the present day Palestinian (both Muslim and Christian) trace their ancestry to the indigenous Judeans and have more “Jewish” blood than the so called Ashkenazi settlers from Europe. If u want to learn more about this read Shlomo Sand http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

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  184. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    So in other words u have nothing. Cheers Kat! LOL So tell me what are u people doing in Africa again? I`ll say it again, when u whites go home and I mean really go home (for more see my earlier comments) then we will go home and you will have every right to argue what u are arguing now. But it seems to me what u want is impunity for your actions. You want to be able to invade, occupy, colonize, settle, economically exploit, et... without any repercussions. That is pure unadulterated oh gasp! white privilege. Now go ahead and bang your pretty head against the wall of reality again. This situation is only going to get worse so get those gas chambers ready baby LOL!

    So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built? Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    "So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built?"

    You do that just fine with your bombings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/libya-nato-bombing-report_n_908495.html

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/afghan-hospital-bombing-war-crime-msf-kunduz-151003151257396.html

    http://www.iacenter.org/africa/libya-videos081611/

    Kat, are u really that thick to argue such an argument without a bit of google check? LOL!

    "Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it."

    First of all don`t flatter yourself there aren`t that many "white medical teams" in Africa. The ones who are there are NGO parasites living in luxury in places Nairobi enjoying the golf clubs. They could give a shit about African birthrates. African birthrates are due to peasant need for replacement labor "honey". People still die early in Africa hence why families have more children to make up for those who die. This was exactly the norm in your Europe not too long ago. Thankfully this situation is changing in some African countries http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34732609 no thanks to u cunts. No body needs you parasites more like u want to exploit us with impunity. Sorry that is not going to happen at least without a fight. Go away for good or we come to your house. It`s as simple as that. Your choice

    , @Osman
    "So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built"

    Sorry Kat maybe u haven`t got the message that work is already well on the way http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34732609

    , @Osman
    I can`t speak for other Africans but I would dearly love that you fuckers get out of Africa for good (medicines and all) and then send our people back and hope to forget we even ever met.
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  185. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    Who let the lunatics out today?

    "Why anybody gives this Osman any time is beyond me. He is a killer of Whites and White Civilization."

    Sorry never had the honor unless u count Iraqis and Afghans as "White" LOL

    "Osman will ad hominem the man but refuse the argue his article. This is the mark of a killer."

    Do u even know the meaning of ad hominem? I maybe a killer now but I wasn`t one until I joined your stupid military. Killer courtesy and on behalf of Uncle Sam.

    "Osman is a de-colonialist commie type and should be ignored."

    "Commie" me thinks not but damn proud anti-imperialist.

    "By the way, Whites will once again distinguish themselves by merely repatriating the wretched and not killing them. The wretched will start killing us, led by the likes of Osman, in which Whites will slowly start returning the complement, so if Osman really cared about social peace, and not revenge, he would agree to Return of Immigrants."

    Okay no problem! Start the ball rolling and leave every place you people invaded and settled starting with the Americas, Southern Africa, Kenya, moving on to the Indian ocean islands, then on to Australia, New Zealand, Hawai, and other pacific islands. And of course don`t forget to take your troops, drones/planes, navies, military bases, mercenaries, "loutish" expat losers, companies (in my case your thieving fishing trawlers), stop dumping toxic waste on our shores http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/dumped-in-africa-britain8217s-toxic-waste-1624869.html. And then we can all go home and call it a day. Until then stop whining and moaning and keep jerking off to your "IQ score".

    Osman, one question. Were you press-ganged into the US military? If the answer is no then shut up about having joined of your own free will.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    No, my brother Osman was shooting from the opposite side, did you not get that? He just managed to skip Cuban R&R at Guantanamo on the way home from Afghanistan.
    , @Osman
    "Osman, one question. Were you press-ganged into the US military? If the answer is no then shut up about having joined of your own free will."

    Since u asked me a personal question I will answer u sincerely. No one "press-ganged" me (although my grandfather was by the British) into joining the US military and I am not complaining at all, I just regret it for various reasons that I can get into if u want but I`m surely not complaining about it. Btw I only brought up my service because some assholes here accused me of being "ungrateful". The main reason I joined the US military back in 2002 was because on the opposite I was so "grateful" to Uncle Sam and believed in the whole immigrant fairy tale of "american dream" not to mention my deep shame and guilt that Muslims had done that in the name of my religion at the time. Little did I know then how futile my efforts would be and how stupid religion of all stripes are including Islam and Christianity. So to your answer I never complain unlike u I take life with all its lumps and survive. Can I say the same for u "Miss. Daisy"?

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  186. Kiza says:
    @Kat Grey
    Osman, one question. Were you press-ganged into the US military? If the answer is no then shut up about having joined of your own free will.

    No, my brother Osman was shooting from the opposite side, did you not get that? He just managed to skip Cuban R&R at Guantanamo on the way home from Afghanistan.

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    • Replies: @Osman
    These people are impervious to any logic.
    , @Osman
    Dude! Stop calling me brother you`re gonna blow my cover with these racists LOL! I can`t be seen fraternizing with the White enemy LOL
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  187. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built? Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it.

    “So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built?”

    You do that just fine with your bombings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/libya-nato-bombing-report_n_908495.html

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/afghan-hospital-bombing-war-crime-msf-kunduz-151003151257396.html

    http://www.iacenter.org/africa/libya-videos081611/

    Kat, are u really that thick to argue such an argument without a bit of google check? LOL!

    “Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it.”

    First of all don`t flatter yourself there aren`t that many “white medical teams” in Africa. The ones who are there are NGO parasites living in luxury in places Nairobi enjoying the golf clubs. They could give a shit about African birthrates. African birthrates are due to peasant need for replacement labor “honey”. People still die early in Africa hence why families have more children to make up for those who die. This was exactly the norm in your Europe not too long ago. Thankfully this situation is changing in some African countries http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34732609 no thanks to u cunts. No body needs you parasites more like u want to exploit us with impunity. Sorry that is not going to happen at least without a fight. Go away for good or we come to your house. It`s as simple as that. Your choice

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    Poor Osman still cannot come to terms with the fact that whitey has to feed the children Africans so irresponsibly screw into the world, many without prior consent of the underage mothers. You are epic losers and destined to forever remain in the wings of the historical stage.
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  188. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built? Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it.

    “So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built”

    Sorry Kat maybe u haven`t got the message that work is already well on the way http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34732609

    Read More
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  189. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    Osman, one question. Were you press-ganged into the US military? If the answer is no then shut up about having joined of your own free will.

    “Osman, one question. Were you press-ganged into the US military? If the answer is no then shut up about having joined of your own free will.”

    Since u asked me a personal question I will answer u sincerely. No one “press-ganged” me (although my grandfather was by the British) into joining the US military and I am not complaining at all, I just regret it for various reasons that I can get into if u want but I`m surely not complaining about it. Btw I only brought up my service because some assholes here accused me of being “ungrateful”. The main reason I joined the US military back in 2002 was because on the opposite I was so “grateful” to Uncle Sam and believed in the whole immigrant fairy tale of “american dream” not to mention my deep shame and guilt that Muslims had done that in the name of my religion at the time. Little did I know then how futile my efforts would be and how stupid religion of all stripes are including Islam and Christianity. So to your answer I never complain unlike u I take life with all its lumps and survive. Can I say the same for u “Miss. Daisy”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Thanks but no thanks for your "medicine" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_experimentation_in_Africa
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  190. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    No, my brother Osman was shooting from the opposite side, did you not get that? He just managed to skip Cuban R&R at Guantanamo on the way home from Afghanistan.

    These people are impervious to any logic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    What did you and I discuss about humor? Let us just make fun of them.
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  191. Osman says:
    @Kat Grey
    So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built? Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it.

    I can`t speak for other Africans but I would dearly love that you fuckers get out of Africa for good (medicines and all) and then send our people back and hope to forget we even ever met.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kat Grey
    Jesus wept, Osman but you are monotonous. Reading your untrammeled shite is akin to being trapped in a stalled lift with someone quoting scripture from the Bible.
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  192. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    No, my brother Osman was shooting from the opposite side, did you not get that? He just managed to skip Cuban R&R at Guantanamo on the way home from Afghanistan.

    Dude! Stop calling me brother you`re gonna blow my cover with these racists LOL! I can`t be seen fraternizing with the White enemy LOL

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  193. Osman says:
    @Osman
    "Osman, one question. Were you press-ganged into the US military? If the answer is no then shut up about having joined of your own free will."

    Since u asked me a personal question I will answer u sincerely. No one "press-ganged" me (although my grandfather was by the British) into joining the US military and I am not complaining at all, I just regret it for various reasons that I can get into if u want but I`m surely not complaining about it. Btw I only brought up my service because some assholes here accused me of being "ungrateful". The main reason I joined the US military back in 2002 was because on the opposite I was so "grateful" to Uncle Sam and believed in the whole immigrant fairy tale of "american dream" not to mention my deep shame and guilt that Muslims had done that in the name of my religion at the time. Little did I know then how futile my efforts would be and how stupid religion of all stripes are including Islam and Christianity. So to your answer I never complain unlike u I take life with all its lumps and survive. Can I say the same for u "Miss. Daisy"?

    Thanks but no thanks for your “medicine” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_experimentation_in_Africa

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  194. Osman says:

    As for infrastructure like hospitals, roads, and the like, China has built more in Africa in just the last 3 decades than the West has in over 3 centuries. So please oh please spare us your “goodwill” and just go away no one needs your pale ass.

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    So please oh please spare us your “goodwill” and just go away no one needs your pale ass
     
    Lol then you can stop turning up in our continent with your pathetic begging outstretched hands
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  195. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    As for infrastructure like hospitals, roads, and the like, China has built more in Africa in just the last 3 decades than the West has in over 3 centuries. So please oh please spare us your "goodwill" and just go away no one needs your pale ass.

    So please oh please spare us your “goodwill” and just go away no one needs your pale ass

    Lol then you can stop turning up in our continent with your pathetic begging outstretched hands

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    You mean like these "outstretched hands":

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-14716410

    or these spaniards http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-27/spaniards-fleeing-jobless-scourge-seek-jobs-in-morocco-economy

    Rediger come on dude try harder LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
    , @Osman
    The whiteys are even living illegally in Morocco http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2013/0321/The-world-upside-down-The-rise-of-Spanish-immigration-to-Morocco

    Oh the irony of it all LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

    , @Kat Grey
    They will never go away. They will keep coming in their rubber dinghies..all the brave Apollos claiming to be fleeing war zones (after having left the women and children behind)
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  196. Lol then you can stop turning up in our continent with your pathetic begging outstretched hands

    Netanyahu to Seek More US Aid at White House Talks

    http://www.voanews.com/content/netanyahu-to-seek-more-us-aid-at-white-house-talks/3048808.html

    The [Iran] nuclear agreement severely strained relations between Israel and the U.S., with Netanyahu charging that it would not prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons that could threaten the existence of the Jewish state.

    Compensation

    In the wake of that perceived threat, Netanyahu wants compensation from America.

    He said Israel is seeking a significant increase in U.S. military aid over the next decade. The current annual U.S. aid package to Israel stands at $3 billion, and officials say Netanyahu hopes to get that raised to $4 or $5 billion each year.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG

    NO $$$US, WEAPONS, UN VETO for ISRAEL !!!
     
    Indeed, what a travesty.

    Protest War Criminal Netanyahu at the White House

    Netanyahu = War CriminalMonday, November 9
    Assemble at 9am
    Rally and Direct Action

    ALSO:

    “No US tax dollars to Israel”

    (WASHINGTON DC 11/02/2015) – An unprecedented coalition of 29 faith-based Palestine solidarity groups as well as peace and justice organizations are planning a rally and protest from 5-8 p.m., Monday, Nov. 9, 2015 outside the National Building Museum, where the American Enterprise Institute will be honoring Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    The groups will be forwarding one main message: “No US tax dollars to Israel,” as a way to protest American financial, political and diplomatic support for Israel despite its continual violations of international and American laws. The coalition calls for an end to US military aid to Israel until it complies with international law and end its occupation of Palestinian lands.

    WHAT: Rally and protest

    WHEN: 5-8 p.m., Monday, Nov. 9, 2015

    WHERE: Outside National Building Museum, 600 Block of 401 F. St. NW, Washington DC
     
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  197. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    These people are impervious to any logic.

    What did you and I discuss about humor? Let us just make fun of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Honestly Kiza, I haven`t had this much fun in a very long time. I didn`t realize how easy and fun it would be to ridicule these idiotic racists by simply throwing their bigotry right back at them and they still haven`t caught on to the irony. Truly pathetic lot. LOL
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  198. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home

    So please oh please spare us your “goodwill” and just go away no one needs your pale ass
     
    Lol then you can stop turning up in our continent with your pathetic begging outstretched hands

    You mean like these “outstretched hands”:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-14716410

    or these spaniards http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-27/spaniards-fleeing-jobless-scourge-seek-jobs-in-morocco-economy

    Rediger come on dude try harder LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    Life is complicated, but on balance you and yours are beggar nations.
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  199. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    What did you and I discuss about humor? Let us just make fun of them.

    Honestly Kiza, I haven`t had this much fun in a very long time. I didn`t realize how easy and fun it would be to ridicule these idiotic racists by simply throwing their bigotry right back at them and they still haven`t caught on to the irony. Truly pathetic lot. LOL

    Read More
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  200. Osman says:
    @This Is Our Home

    So please oh please spare us your “goodwill” and just go away no one needs your pale ass
     
    Lol then you can stop turning up in our continent with your pathetic begging outstretched hands

    The whiteys are even living illegally in Morocco http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2013/0321/The-world-upside-down-The-rise-of-Spanish-immigration-to-Morocco

    Oh the irony of it all LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

    Read More
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  201. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    You do know that most Muslims are not Wahhabi and not from Mecca, right? Or is that your usual Avery blather? If you have a beef with your fellow hairy Anatolian cousins the Turks then by all means have at it boss but stop including 1.5 billion other people? So why are u mooching Armenians in Iran again? Iranians are not "turkish nomads from uyguristan" but a muslim country nonetheless yet you have no problem building your churches there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Armenian_churches_in_Iran. Dude you`re all over the place get back to me when you get your head in order. Btw I don`t live in the "christian west" anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there. As a hairy Armenian darkie, you are not a "Westerner" no matter how hard u try and kiss their ass u will end up like that dumb ass Lebanese Christian I mentioned before, rejected and humiliated for looking "Ayraab". Western racists don`t give a shit about Christianity if they did they wouldn`t be unleashing Wahhabi terrorists on your people in Syria and Iraq and other muslims like Iran, Kurds and Lebanese Shia would not be coming to the rescue of your fellow Christians including Syrian Armenians. So much for me being an "Islamofascist" on the contrary it seems u are the one on the side of the imperialists and hence same team as the "wahhabis" u harp on about. Remember wahhabi Saudis are fully pro-western.
    So now commenting on websites is "mooching"? In Avery world maybe LOL! Dude you are getting crazier by the minute. I sincerely suggest u seek some help.

    Religion is not inherently evil. It is one of the most primal needs to humans to believe in something outside of themselves and most religions are humane, including Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

    As much as guns do not kill people, then bad people kill people, so much religion does not kill (other, non-believing) people, bad people kill people of other religions. It is the extremists in every religion who do all bad things. But people also have a need to generalize and pass judgement (Jesus mentioned something about passing judgement on others). Thus, they blame “the other religion”.

    If the extremists, such as the Jewish Neocons, did not have their religion, they would be communists, or nationalists or would kill in the name of their favorite drink, or whatever. All people want something or do something first and then they find or create justification for it after – bad people use ideology, religion, country, football club (soccer violence in Europe), as a cover for their miserable actions. Bad deeds first, justification later. The Neocons, for example, wanted Greater Israel first, then they “found” that Iraq had WMD or that Israel is threatened by Iran.

    PS. I am not religious, but do not take that against me either, lol.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    [It's not good practice to clutter up a thread by writing so many short comments. Instead, combine them together into one or two longer and more substantial ones.]

    Generally agree with your sentiments about people using whatever means to justify their hatred religion, race, nationalism, etc... We see it right here in this thread. But I find it hard to tolerate the fairy tales of a hallucinating 7th century Arab pedophile (yes I actually said that Avery, I can practically see u purring like a pussycat LOL) or the teachings of a Jew homo born to a prostitute named Mary (immaculate conception my black ass). But hey whatever rocks your boat if u find peace believing in that shit then by all means enjoy but I for one won`t touch it with a ten foot pole.
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  202. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    Religion is not inherently evil. It is one of the most primal needs to humans to believe in something outside of themselves and most religions are humane, including Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

    As much as guns do not kill people, then bad people kill people, so much religion does not kill (other, non-believing) people, bad people kill people of other religions. It is the extremists in every religion who do all bad things. But people also have a need to generalize and pass judgement (Jesus mentioned something about passing judgement on others). Thus, they blame "the other religion".

    If the extremists, such as the Jewish Neocons, did not have their religion, they would be communists, or nationalists or would kill in the name of their favorite drink, or whatever. All people want something or do something first and then they find or create justification for it after - bad people use ideology, religion, country, football club (soccer violence in Europe), as a cover for their miserable actions. Bad deeds first, justification later. The Neocons, for example, wanted Greater Israel first, then they "found" that Iraq had WMD or that Israel is threatened by Iran.

    PS. I am not religious, but do not take that against me either, lol.

    [It's not good practice to clutter up a thread by writing so many short comments. Instead, combine them together into one or two longer and more substantial ones.]

    Generally agree with your sentiments about people using whatever means to justify their hatred religion, race, nationalism, etc… We see it right here in this thread. But I find it hard to tolerate the fairy tales of a hallucinating 7th century Arab pedophile (yes I actually said that Avery, I can practically see u purring like a pussycat LOL) or the teachings of a Jew homo born to a prostitute named Mary (immaculate conception my black ass). But hey whatever rocks your boat if u find peace believing in that shit then by all means enjoy but I for one won`t touch it with a ten foot pole.

    Read More
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  203. Osman says:

    http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-african-migrants-payback-time/a-18691395

    [MORE]

    Opinion: African migrants – payback time?
    Just as Europeans migrated overseas in the past, so are Africans now migrating to Europe. In this guest commentary, the head of the UN Economic Commission for Africa Carlos Lopes draws parallels between the two episodes.

    Since the beginning of this year a relentless flow of images from the Italian island of Lampedusa, the city of Calais where the Eurotunnel starts, Bodrum in Turkey, the eastern islands of Greece, or the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla in Morocco, are invading television screens and media outlets. They portray massive-scale attempts by desperate souls trying to reach European countries. The EU commissioner in charge of migration declared this month this is the worst migrant crisis since World War II. Is it?
    Maybe for Western Europe it is perceived as such, but it is not. Understanding why is important, because more is coming.
    Migration is part of the human journey since the sophisticated apes started moving out of the Rift Valley in Africa. The history of humanity is so rich and complex that we have difficulties relating to a very remote common origin, except for historical assessments and philosophical statements. It is easier for all to link to a more recent past, the one that through events and social interaction shaped our identities. Human beings have a selective reading of history. For most, compensation will be justified for a wrong done to some, but not the other. Apologies will be fine with some, but not the other. Peace offers will be morally acceptable to some, but not the other. This is after all mimicking individual behavior at a larger, societal level.
    Carlos Lopes
    Carlos Lopes is head of the UN Economic Commission for Africa
    Most Italians forgot they created entire nations such as Argentina and Uruguay. The British do not necessarily relate Australia, New Zealand, or the Spanish and Portuguese most of South America to their making through migration. When referring to Indochina, the Chinese must have only a vague idea why that region carries their name. Americans will find it bad taste to mention part of the current US was bought from Mexico. The list is vast.
    Still one continent in recent history has never been associated with migration to colonize or profit from other regions’ richness: Africa! If anything, Africa is rather known for suffering from slavery, plundering of its natural resources and unfair international treatment.
    Africa has struggled more than most to find a way out of poverty. It has been doing better of late, since the turn of the century in fact, posting growth rates above the world’s and developing countries’ average. Yet the narrative about the continent seems to be fixated on migration and negative assessments of its performance. It is, therefore, important, first to understand why Africa is perceived to be generating more migrants today than ever before.
    African countries receive a lot more migrants than the continent exports abroad. In fact, the bulk of Africans looking for opportunities outside their countries go to another African country. Fewer than 2 million seek a destination abroad every year, which is a tiny number in relation to migrant stocks, particularly in Europe. Of the quarter of a million who have tried the Mediterranean route this year, the largest contingent are Syrians, with about 50.000, a fraction of those settled in, say, Lebanon, with over 3 million. Afghans, Yemenis, Pakistanis and other non-Africans use the route too.
    Europe’s pull factor is to be understood by a variety of developments, from information access (6 billion cell phones in the world), human rights proclamations, a call for universal moral values all the way to unfair distribution of income and inequality across the globe. Terrorism and religious extremism have played a card as well. It looks like the strong European rights advocacy has worked for its detriment.
    Pockets of war such as Libya and its surrounding deserts, the Great Lakes and their neighborhood, and the long embattled Somalia are generating political asylum seekers and massive number of refugees as well. Harsh African regimes contribute their lot. The shyness shown by African leaders when migration is a theme, including for other fellow Africans, is disturbing. But, still this does not give us the full story.
    In every moment of history growth has generated outward migrants from the same location. It is indeed happening with Chinese and Indians right now, as it is in Africa. Growth spins the chances for a new life but its distribution, particularly at the early stages of a country’s take-off, is uneven and unpredictable. Those who see their neighbor with means and hope they do not have, venture out. It would have been absurd to propose bombing the boats that were sailing to South America full of migrants escaping the misfortunes of the two World Wars’ aftermath. These migrants were seeking better lives. Yet their countries were growing like never before, thanks amongst other things to the Marshall Plan.
    Africans dying in the desert or the sea are the determined lot. They do not accept their fate and are ready to risk their lives. The youngest population of the world sees the developed nations of Europe as the closest beacon of hope. For them it is the house of human rights that will certainly understand their plight and welcome them to work!
    Africa’s youthfulness will keep growing when the rest of the world will be ageing. The difficulty of admitting that the current state welfare in all ageing countries is unsustainable has led to the most bizarre economic policy proposals. Accepting there is a demographic challenge would imply a vast overhaul of social and political choices to sustain the economy. As we all witness the limits of transfer of value from production and labor to knowledge and financial control, we are also seeing the limits of the prevailing economic model. A demographic equilibrium is still essential, despite technological progress and productivity gains. Social security or pension funds cannot be contributed towards by robots or intellectual property; they need people, workers, and productive workers indeed. That is why Europe will have to come to grips with its need for migrants, as many times acknowledged by the EU Commission.
    The 2000 or so known deaths in the Mediterranean Sea, are a tragic wakeup call. Between now and 2050, Africa will double its population. Even if it grows as fast, or faster than it is doing right now, it is likely to generate a much bigger flow of young Africans looking for opportunities in an ageing Europe.
    The extraordinary and still amazing bravery of the European explorers, facing unknown seas and geography with scarce scientific tools for orientation and survival has been celebrated. It is an extraordinary demonstration of human determination. That same bravery is displayed by today’s migrants. And they are turning to Europe. Payback time?

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  204. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Lol then you can stop turning up in our continent with your pathetic begging outstretched hands

     

    Netanyahu to Seek More US Aid at White House Talks

    http://www.voanews.com/content/netanyahu-to-seek-more-us-aid-at-white-house-talks/3048808.html

    The [Iran] nuclear agreement severely strained relations between Israel and the U.S., with Netanyahu charging that it would not prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons that could threaten the existence of the Jewish state.

    Compensation

    In the wake of that perceived threat, Netanyahu wants compensation from America.

    He said Israel is seeking a significant increase in U.S. military aid over the next decade. The current annual U.S. aid package to Israel stands at $3 billion, and officials say Netanyahu hopes to get that raised to $4 or $5 billion each year.
     

    NO $$$US, WEAPONS, UN VETO for ISRAEL !!!

    Indeed, what a travesty.

    Protest War Criminal Netanyahu at the White House

    Netanyahu = War CriminalMonday, November 9
    Assemble at 9am
    Rally and Direct Action

    ALSO:

    “No US tax dollars to Israel”

    (WASHINGTON DC 11/02/2015) – An unprecedented coalition of 29 faith-based Palestine solidarity groups as well as peace and justice organizations are planning a rally and protest from 5-8 p.m., Monday, Nov. 9, 2015 outside the National Building Museum, where the American Enterprise Institute will be honoring Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    The groups will be forwarding one main message: “No US tax dollars to Israel,” as a way to protest American financial, political and diplomatic support for Israel despite its continual violations of international and American laws. The coalition calls for an end to US military aid to Israel until it complies with international law and end its occupation of Palestinian lands.

    WHAT: Rally and protest

    WHEN: 5-8 p.m., Monday, Nov. 9, 2015

    WHERE: Outside National Building Museum, 600 Block of 401 F. St. NW, Washington DC

    Read More
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  205. Kiza says:

    You read a bit bitter my brother Osman. Maybe from a left-over of PTSD. I do not want to jump to any conclusions because I do not know you enough. Just want to say that it is better to be positive, no matter how bad things are. We only help our enemies (here, the racists) by incapacitating ourselves by succumbing to negative feelings. Honestly, just try to turn things to humor, see the funny side of bad situations and people. For example, making fun of the racists works in two ways:
    1) it makes them angry (and thus irrational),
    2) it makes us laugh and love life again.

    Sorry if I misread the situation, just trying to share my own philosophy with you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Osman
    Fair enough point taken Kiza. Sorry if I came off bitter but I really don`t like irrationality and I find religion to be the ultimate irrationality. But then again as the late great Alexander Cockburn said about Christopher Hitchens:

    "Anyway, between the two of them, my sympathies were always with Mother Teresa. If you were sitting in rags in a gutter in Bombay, who would be more likely to give you a bowl of soup? You’d get one from Mother Teresa. Hitchens was always tight with beggars, just like the snotty Fabians who used to deprecate charity" http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/16/farewell-to-c-h/

    So yeah ur right a righteous religious nutter with a heart always beats a moronic racist sociopath any day.

    Otherwise I share much with your philosophy which sounds a lot like common human decency ( the golden rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule) which is sorely lacking among many UNZ commenters sorry to say.

    As for your comment to Giraldi, I too was disappointed by his lack of the above golden rule and even worse his omission of the root causes of this current refugee crisis. Before this article he used to strike me as an intelligent, fair minded and thoughtful person (notwithstanding his CIA background) but in this piece he has exposed his "Cheneyan dark side". Notice how he avoids responding to our comments but cheerily encourages Kat Grey`s mindless racism and xenophobia. That and his subsequent silence say a lot about Giraldi`s character as a person.

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  206. Kiza says:

    I remember travelling through Europe in year 1980 on an Inter-Rail ticket (unlimited rail travel for young Europeans). The trains in Southern Europe were full of Muslims, Arabs, Turks and dark Africans. Almost nobody else traveled on trains in Italy, France and Spain but these Muslims. They were either going back home or coming to Europe for the first time. My friend and I, being fairly young, were a bit scared that out throats may get slit overnight whilst sleeping in the same compartment as these Muslims and people of color. Prejudices, nothing happened. Their feet smelled (yayks), but they were good people, nothing much different that the two white boys (we were an exotic addition to their compartments).

    My point of writing this is to Philip Giraldi – in the 1980s, the migrants were coming to Europe, but in hundreds. Now they come to Europe in hundreds of thousands and millions are on the way. How come? What has changed? Has Europe gotten richer all of a sudden? Is the social system in EU easier to rip off now than in the 80s? And all this changed in just the last year or so? How could you call these people “migrants” when most of them are obviously refugees?

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    young, were a bit scared that out throats may get slit overnight whilst sleeping in the same compartment as these Muslims and people of color. Prejudices, nothing happened. Their feet smelled (yayks), but they were good people, nothing much different that the tw
     
    They didn't slit your throats. Who are these paragons of civilization...
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  207. Osman says:
    @Kiza
    You read a bit bitter my brother Osman. Maybe from a left-over of PTSD. I do not want to jump to any conclusions because I do not know you enough. Just want to say that it is better to be positive, no matter how bad things are. We only help our enemies (here, the racists) by incapacitating ourselves by succumbing to negative feelings. Honestly, just try to turn things to humor, see the funny side of bad situations and people. For example, making fun of the racists works in two ways:
    1) it makes them angry (and thus irrational),
    2) it makes us laugh and love life again.

    Sorry if I misread the situation, just trying to share my own philosophy with you.

    Fair enough point taken Kiza. Sorry if I came off bitter but I really don`t like irrationality and I find religion to be the ultimate irrationality. But then again as the late great Alexander Cockburn said about Christopher Hitchens:

    “Anyway, between the two of them, my sympathies were always with Mother Teresa. If you were sitting in rags in a gutter in Bombay, who would be more likely to give you a bowl of soup? You’d get one from Mother Teresa. Hitchens was always tight with beggars, just like the snotty Fabians who used to deprecate charity” http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/16/farewell-to-c-h/

    So yeah ur right a righteous religious nutter with a heart always beats a moronic racist sociopath any day.

    Otherwise I share much with your philosophy which sounds a lot like common human decency ( the golden rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule) which is sorely lacking among many UNZ commenters sorry to say.

    As for your comment to Giraldi, I too was disappointed by his lack of the above golden rule and even worse his omission of the root causes of this current refugee crisis. Before this article he used to strike me as an intelligent, fair minded and thoughtful person (notwithstanding his CIA background) but in this piece he has exposed his “Cheneyan dark side”. Notice how he avoids responding to our comments but cheerily encourages Kat Grey`s mindless racism and xenophobia. That and his subsequent silence say a lot about Giraldi`s character as a person.

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  208. Kiza says:

    A wonderful summary Osman:

    a righteous religious nutter with a heart always beats a moronic racist sociopath (who bombs other countries for “humanitarian” reasons)

    You are a knowledgeable thinker.

    Re. Golden Rule, it is worth reading some criticism of it by Immanuel Kant and Friedrich Nietzsche, but it remains one of the best inventions of the human civilization, one of the rare things by which humans exceed animals. Although some chimpanzees actually appear to practice the Golden Rule more than these racists:

    http://www.wired.com/2007/06/chimps-follow-t/

    Maybe the chimpanzees have racists like humans do, but at least they cannot mass-murder other chimpanzees.

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  209. Osman says:

    “Re. Golden Rule, it is worth reading some criticism of it by Immanuel Kant and Friedrich Nietzsche, but it remains one of the best inventions of the human civilization, one of the rare things by which humans exceed animals. Although some chimpanzees actually appear to practice the Golden Rule more than these racists:

    http://www.wired.com/2007/06/chimps-follow-t/

    Maybe the chimpanzees have racists like humans do, but at least they cannot mass-murder other chimpanzees.”

    Thanks for that. I will definitely brush up on my Kant and Nietzsche and philosophy in general. As for Chimps, they can be quite violent, but their Bonobo cousins seem to be more enlightened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Peacefulness.

    I just realized out of all the comments here only you and Anna Marina have something worth learning from. Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Otherwise it has been awesome conversing with you. Cheers my new European brother.

    Osman

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    I am bailing out of this topic, my brother, these racists are boring me to death. Peace and humor to you. Please move on in life after what you have gone through, I will keep my fingers crossed for you.
    , @This Is Our Home

    I just realized out of all the comments here only you and Anna Marina have something worth learning from. Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Otherwise it has been awesome conversing with you. Cheers my new European brother
     
    The poster you are talking of is obviously not a European. Perhaps an Arab squatting in Europe...
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  210. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    "So Os-man seeing as you want every vestige of the evil white colonisers to be eradicated from the pristine jungles and savannahs of Africa does that mean we get to raze all the hospitals, schools and roads we built?"

    You do that just fine with your bombings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/libya-nato-bombing-report_n_908495.html

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/afghan-hospital-bombing-war-crime-msf-kunduz-151003151257396.html

    http://www.iacenter.org/africa/libya-videos081611/

    Kat, are u really that thick to argue such an argument without a bit of google check? LOL!

    "Shall all the white medical teams quit the joint taking with them all the medicine that is maintaining the preposterously high African birthrate? In other words Africa needs Europeans but Europeans do not need Africans. Accept it and get over it."

    First of all don`t flatter yourself there aren`t that many "white medical teams" in Africa. The ones who are there are NGO parasites living in luxury in places Nairobi enjoying the golf clubs. They could give a shit about African birthrates. African birthrates are due to peasant need for replacement labor "honey". People still die early in Africa hence why families have more children to make up for those who die. This was exactly the norm in your Europe not too long ago. Thankfully this situation is changing in some African countries http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34732609 no thanks to u cunts. No body needs you parasites more like u want to exploit us with impunity. Sorry that is not going to happen at least without a fight. Go away for good or we come to your house. It`s as simple as that. Your choice

    Poor Osman still cannot come to terms with the fact that whitey has to feed the children Africans so irresponsibly screw into the world, many without prior consent of the underage mothers. You are epic losers and destined to forever remain in the wings of the historical stage.

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  211. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    You mean like these "outstretched hands":

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-14716410

    or these spaniards http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-27/spaniards-fleeing-jobless-scourge-seek-jobs-in-morocco-economy

    Rediger come on dude try harder LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

    Life is complicated, but on balance you and yours are beggar nations.

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  212. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Kiza
    I remember travelling through Europe in year 1980 on an Inter-Rail ticket (unlimited rail travel for young Europeans). The trains in Southern Europe were full of Muslims, Arabs, Turks and dark Africans. Almost nobody else traveled on trains in Italy, France and Spain but these Muslims. They were either going back home or coming to Europe for the first time. My friend and I, being fairly young, were a bit scared that out throats may get slit overnight whilst sleeping in the same compartment as these Muslims and people of color. Prejudices, nothing happened. Their feet smelled (yayks), but they were good people, nothing much different that the two white boys (we were an exotic addition to their compartments).

    My point of writing this is to Philip Giraldi - in the 1980s, the migrants were coming to Europe, but in hundreds. Now they come to Europe in hundreds of thousands and millions are on the way. How come? What has changed? Has Europe gotten richer all of a sudden? Is the social system in EU easier to rip off now than in the 80s? And all this changed in just the last year or so? How could you call these people "migrants" when most of them are obviously refugees?

    young, were a bit scared that out throats may get slit overnight whilst sleeping in the same compartment as these Muslims and people of color. Prejudices, nothing happened. Their feet smelled (yayks), but they were good people, nothing much different that the tw

    They didn’t slit your throats. Who are these paragons of civilization…

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    I have evolved since 1980s, but it appears that you have not. You are still stuck in the European colonial century.
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  213. Kat Grey says:
    @This Is Our Home

    So please oh please spare us your “goodwill” and just go away no one needs your pale ass
     
    Lol then you can stop turning up in our continent with your pathetic begging outstretched hands

    They will never go away. They will keep coming in their rubber dinghies..all the brave Apollos claiming to be fleeing war zones (after having left the women and children behind)

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  214. Osman says:

    This is for Avery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIqNhBnnhr4

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/tampa-police-marine-reservist-attacked-greek-priest-he-mistook-for/1050707

    Be careful Avery u never know when you too could be mistaken for an Arab most likely by the very same white supremacists whose acceptance u crave so much.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {Be careful Avery u never know when you too could be mistaken for an Arab most likely by the very same white supremacists whose acceptance u crave so much.}

    Unlike you, Osman, I crave acceptance from no one, be they 'whitee', 'blackie', 'brownee', ...
    Least of all white supremacists.
    You are the one who was desperately craving acceptance by 'whitee' while you were living amongst North Americans. Because you were an IslamoFascist, you were very rationally and correctly rejected, so your desperate, yet rejected craving for acceptance by 'whitee' has turned into an all consuming hate for 'whitee'.

    Quite irrational, really.
    You are using a computer developed by 'whitee' to write your irrational 'comments', if we can call disjointed sentences you cobble together and throw out by the dozens in one sitting - "comment".
    You are using the internet developed by 'whitee' to spread your anti-'whitee' hate.
    That computer you are using in the house or office you are sitting in has something called "electricity": 120VAC or 220VAC. Yep, you guessed it: electricity too was discovered and developed by 'whitee'.
    Need I go on ?

    btw, Osman: you keep hiding where you are from originally, what country ?
    Are you ashamed of your ancestry ?
    What country you living in now ?

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  215. Kat Grey says:
    @Osman
    I can`t speak for other Africans but I would dearly love that you fuckers get out of Africa for good (medicines and all) and then send our people back and hope to forget we even ever met.

    Jesus wept, Osman but you are monotonous. Reading your untrammeled shite is akin to being trapped in a stalled lift with someone quoting scripture from the Bible.

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  216. Avery says:
    @Osman
    You do know that most Muslims are not Wahhabi and not from Mecca, right? Or is that your usual Avery blather? If you have a beef with your fellow hairy Anatolian cousins the Turks then by all means have at it boss but stop including 1.5 billion other people? So why are u mooching Armenians in Iran again? Iranians are not "turkish nomads from uyguristan" but a muslim country nonetheless yet you have no problem building your churches there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Armenian_churches_in_Iran. Dude you`re all over the place get back to me when you get your head in order. Btw I don`t live in the "christian west" anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there. As a hairy Armenian darkie, you are not a "Westerner" no matter how hard u try and kiss their ass u will end up like that dumb ass Lebanese Christian I mentioned before, rejected and humiliated for looking "Ayraab". Western racists don`t give a shit about Christianity if they did they wouldn`t be unleashing Wahhabi terrorists on your people in Syria and Iraq and other muslims like Iran, Kurds and Lebanese Shia would not be coming to the rescue of your fellow Christians including Syrian Armenians. So much for me being an "Islamofascist" on the contrary it seems u are the one on the side of the imperialists and hence same team as the "wahhabis" u harp on about. Remember wahhabi Saudis are fully pro-western.
    So now commenting on websites is "mooching"? In Avery world maybe LOL! Dude you are getting crazier by the minute. I sincerely suggest u seek some help.

    {Btw I don`t live in the “christian west” anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there.}

    The fact is you did. You did mooch off the Western society.
    You did mooch off the majority Christian population of North America.
    You admitted being an IslamoFascist in your previous life.
    You lived off the generosity of the Western, Christian society of North America, and like a typical IslamoFascist ingrate, are now spreading hate against it – using a North American web site, free of charge.

    {As a hairy Armenian darkie,…. }

    All those “adventures” you had in your life have really warped and scrambled the few brain cells that you had. I’d say you lost most of them in the IslamoFascist phase of your life.

    {Remember wahhabi Saudis are fully pro-western.}

    Saudis are not pro-Western: No Wahhabist can ever be pro-Western.
    Saudis kings and the entire inbred sheikdom are buying protection from US Neocons, nothing more.
    Saudi Wahhabists are the definition of anti-Western and anti-Christian.
    Shows how little you know about so many things.

    And you are confused about the concept of ‘Western’: you are confusing the governments which currently run most of the power-states of Western civilization, with the Western civilization.
    The Neocons who have infected and infested the governments of the noted countries of the West are anti-Christian and anti-Western civilization.

    And you are also confused about what is ‘whitee’, what is ‘darkie’,….
    And the reason you are confused, is because you were damaged.
    You were damaged, because you apparently were trying desperately to be ‘accepted’ by the ‘whitee’, were rejected, and went over the edge.

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  217. Kiza says:
    @This Is Our Home

    young, were a bit scared that out throats may get slit overnight whilst sleeping in the same compartment as these Muslims and people of color. Prejudices, nothing happened. Their feet smelled (yayks), but they were good people, nothing much different that the tw
     
    They didn't slit your throats. Who are these paragons of civilization...

    I have evolved since 1980s, but it appears that you have not. You are still stuck in the European colonial century.

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    You are a foreign colonist in a European land. Since you have received so much, you would be decent to be grateful.
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  218. Kiza says:
    @Osman
    "Re. Golden Rule, it is worth reading some criticism of it by Immanuel Kant and Friedrich Nietzsche, but it remains one of the best inventions of the human civilization, one of the rare things by which humans exceed animals. Although some chimpanzees actually appear to practice the Golden Rule more than these racists:

    http://www.wired.com/2007/06/chimps-follow-t/

    Maybe the chimpanzees have racists like humans do, but at least they cannot mass-murder other chimpanzees."

    Thanks for that. I will definitely brush up on my Kant and Nietzsche and philosophy in general. As for Chimps, they can be quite violent, but their Bonobo cousins seem to be more enlightened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Peacefulness.

    I just realized out of all the comments here only you and Anna Marina have something worth learning from. Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Otherwise it has been awesome conversing with you. Cheers my new European brother.

    Osman

    I am bailing out of this topic, my brother, these racists are boring me to death. Peace and humor to you. Please move on in life after what you have gone through, I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

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  219. Avery says:
    @Osman
    This is for Avery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIqNhBnnhr4

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/tampa-police-marine-reservist-attacked-greek-priest-he-mistook-for/1050707

    Be careful Avery u never know when you too could be mistaken for an Arab most likely by the very same white supremacists whose acceptance u crave so much.

    {Be careful Avery u never know when you too could be mistaken for an Arab most likely by the very same white supremacists whose acceptance u crave so much.}

    Unlike you, Osman, I crave acceptance from no one, be they ‘whitee’, ‘blackie’, ‘brownee’, …
    Least of all white supremacists.
    You are the one who was desperately craving acceptance by ‘whitee’ while you were living amongst North Americans. Because you were an IslamoFascist, you were very rationally and correctly rejected, so your desperate, yet rejected craving for acceptance by ‘whitee’ has turned into an all consuming hate for ‘whitee’.

    Quite irrational, really.
    You are using a computer developed by ‘whitee’ to write your irrational ‘comments’, if we can call disjointed sentences you cobble together and throw out by the dozens in one sitting – “comment”.
    You are using the internet developed by ‘whitee’ to spread your anti-’whitee’ hate.
    That computer you are using in the house or office you are sitting in has something called “electricity”: 120VAC or 220VAC. Yep, you guessed it: electricity too was discovered and developed by ‘whitee’.
    Need I go on ?

    btw, Osman: you keep hiding where you are from originally, what country ?
    Are you ashamed of your ancestry ?
    What country you living in now ?

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  220. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Osman
    "Re. Golden Rule, it is worth reading some criticism of it by Immanuel Kant and Friedrich Nietzsche, but it remains one of the best inventions of the human civilization, one of the rare things by which humans exceed animals. Although some chimpanzees actually appear to practice the Golden Rule more than these racists:

    http://www.wired.com/2007/06/chimps-follow-t/

    Maybe the chimpanzees have racists like humans do, but at least they cannot mass-murder other chimpanzees."

    Thanks for that. I will definitely brush up on my Kant and Nietzsche and philosophy in general. As for Chimps, they can be quite violent, but their Bonobo cousins seem to be more enlightened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Peacefulness.

    I just realized out of all the comments here only you and Anna Marina have something worth learning from. Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Otherwise it has been awesome conversing with you. Cheers my new European brother.

    Osman

    I just realized out of all the comments here only you and Anna Marina have something worth learning from. Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Otherwise it has been awesome conversing with you. Cheers my new European brother

    The poster you are talking of is obviously not a European. Perhaps an Arab squatting in Europe…

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  221. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Kiza
    I have evolved since 1980s, but it appears that you have not. You are still stuck in the European colonial century.

    You are a foreign colonist in a European land. Since you have received so much, you would be decent to be grateful.

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  222. Joe Webb forgot to link to Giraldi, in the nytimes, writing about the deep state.

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/06/do-secret-cabals-rule-more-than-the-imagination-in-turkey-and-egypt/americas-establishment-has-embraced-deep-states

    again, that’s Phil Giraldi, writing in the NY Times, about the Deep State. I think this is amazing, seismic, but I didn’t want to respond to Joe directly because I think a lot of readers may block him, and many of us just try to tiptoe past.

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Thanks for the link Jeff, but it seems Phil isn't free to write about our own Deep State in the NY Times. He writes, "In both countries real democracy has been the first victim. Both Turkey and Egypt are now ruled by autocrats who have among their first steps eliminated an independent press and freedom of speech."

    But is there "an independent press and freedom of speech" anywhere? Not here, for sure, with Zionists controlling the prevailing narrative. An informed electorate being essential for real democracy, where does that leave our propagandized population (what Rurik calls "dumbed down" - which may be more accurate because we're not only misinformed, we're continually distracted with trivia and debauchery).

    Tomorrow Netanyahu will address Center for American Progress, a "progressive" DC think-tank. Leaked emails reveal AIPAC's role in forcing CAP's pro-Israel position. (Thanks for the link, Ron Unz.)

    Leaked Emails from Pro-Clinton Group Reveal Censorship of Staff on Israel, AIPAC Pandering, Warped Militarism
    https://theintercept.com/2015/11/05/leaked-emails-from-pro-clinton-group-reveal-censorship-of-staff-on-israel-aipac-pandering-warped-militarism/
     
    Today's news tells of a proposal for increased US troop deployment to Eastern Europe to counter (non-existent) Russian aggression. This follows the completion of agreement to counter Iran's (non-existent) nuclear threat. Pundits continue to cite Assad's use of chemical weapons, long after that's been debunked. But they keep repeating it, and no doubt many believe it.

    So, Phil can publish "Israel Takes On the First Amendment" here at Unz, but not in the NY Times.
    , @joe webb
    so, Jeff, because you pussies got no argument you will indeed tip-toe past me since I can beat you hands down in any argument, not personal attack.

    So for the sake of clarity, how many folks her block me, as opposed to pussy-footing past me. I realize that if they block me ...yeah yeah.

    This list is largely a waste of my time .

    JW
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  223. RobinG says:
    @Jeff Albertson
    Joe Webb forgot to link to Giraldi, in the nytimes, writing about the deep state.

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/06/do-secret-cabals-rule-more-than-the-imagination-in-turkey-and-egypt/americas-establishment-has-embraced-deep-states

    again, that's Phil Giraldi, writing in the NY Times, about the Deep State. I think this is amazing, seismic, but I didn't want to respond to Joe directly because I think a lot of readers may block him, and many of us just try to tiptoe past.

    Thanks for the link Jeff, but it seems Phil isn’t free to write about our own Deep State in the NY Times. He writes, “In both countries real democracy has been the first victim. Both Turkey and Egypt are now ruled by autocrats who have among their first steps eliminated an independent press and freedom of speech.”

    But is there “an independent press and freedom of speech” anywhere? Not here, for sure, with Zionists controlling the prevailing narrative. An informed electorate being essential for real democracy, where does that leave our propagandized population (what Rurik calls “dumbed down” – which may be more accurate because we’re not only misinformed, we’re continually distracted with trivia and debauchery).

    Tomorrow Netanyahu will address Center for American Progress, a “progressive” DC think-tank. Leaked emails reveal AIPAC’s role in forcing CAP’s pro-Israel position. (Thanks for the link, Ron Unz.)

    Leaked Emails from Pro-Clinton Group Reveal Censorship of Staff on Israel, AIPAC Pandering, Warped Militarism

    https://theintercept.com/2015/11/05/leaked-emails-from-pro-clinton-group-reveal-censorship-of-staff-on-israel-aipac-pandering-warped-militarism/

    Today’s news tells of a proposal for increased US troop deployment to Eastern Europe to counter (non-existent) Russian aggression. This follows the completion of agreement to counter Iran’s (non-existent) nuclear threat. Pundits continue to cite Assad’s use of chemical weapons, long after that’s been debunked. But they keep repeating it, and no doubt many believe it.

    So, Phil can publish “Israel Takes On the First Amendment” here at Unz, but not in the NY Times.

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  224. Avery says:
    @Osman
    You do know that most Muslims are not Wahhabi and not from Mecca, right? Or is that your usual Avery blather? If you have a beef with your fellow hairy Anatolian cousins the Turks then by all means have at it boss but stop including 1.5 billion other people? So why are u mooching Armenians in Iran again? Iranians are not "turkish nomads from uyguristan" but a muslim country nonetheless yet you have no problem building your churches there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Armenian_churches_in_Iran. Dude you`re all over the place get back to me when you get your head in order. Btw I don`t live in the "christian west" anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there. As a hairy Armenian darkie, you are not a "Westerner" no matter how hard u try and kiss their ass u will end up like that dumb ass Lebanese Christian I mentioned before, rejected and humiliated for looking "Ayraab". Western racists don`t give a shit about Christianity if they did they wouldn`t be unleashing Wahhabi terrorists on your people in Syria and Iraq and other muslims like Iran, Kurds and Lebanese Shia would not be coming to the rescue of your fellow Christians including Syrian Armenians. So much for me being an "Islamofascist" on the contrary it seems u are the one on the side of the imperialists and hence same team as the "wahhabis" u harp on about. Remember wahhabi Saudis are fully pro-western.
    So now commenting on websites is "mooching"? In Avery world maybe LOL! Dude you are getting crazier by the minute. I sincerely suggest u seek some help.

    {…Btw I don`t live in the “christian west” anymore but I used to live in foreign occupied stolen lands in North America and paid my share of dues for living there…..}

    Not only are you an ingrate IslamoFascist, but you are a hypocrite to boot.

    Before immigrating to “occupied stolen lands in North America” you knew quite well the history of how North America came to be populated by ‘whitee’ Europeans and later descendants of African slaves. Yet you had no problem living X number of years in those “occupied stolen lands” and benefiting – mooching – of the prosperous country ‘whitee’ created on those “occupied stolen lands”.

    After gorging yourself on the largess of the ‘whitee’ and having your fill, you decided to suddenly remember that those lands were “occupied stolen lands”.

    How convenient.

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  225. joe webb says:
    @Jeff Albertson
    Joe Webb forgot to link to Giraldi, in the nytimes, writing about the deep state.

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/06/do-secret-cabals-rule-more-than-the-imagination-in-turkey-and-egypt/americas-establishment-has-embraced-deep-states

    again, that's Phil Giraldi, writing in the NY Times, about the Deep State. I think this is amazing, seismic, but I didn't want to respond to Joe directly because I think a lot of readers may block him, and many of us just try to tiptoe past.

    so, Jeff, because you pussies got no argument you will indeed tip-toe past me since I can beat you hands down in any argument, not personal attack.

    So for the sake of clarity, how many folks her block me, as opposed to pussy-footing past me. I realize that if they block me …yeah yeah.

    This list is largely a waste of my time .

    JW

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    • Replies: @Jeff Albertson
    pussies ain't personal? I don't block anyone, I just think you discredit your own arguments, and constantly score "own goals" for "our" side, and its a little embarrassing, I like your spirit, though. I just want to go into the store, get my courvoisier, go home and listen to some Manilow. Good day to you, sir!
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  226. Kamran says:

    This website is full of idiots.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    Is that why you are visiting regularly and commenting regularly @UNZ.com, Uyguroğlu ?
    Why don't you start a Turkish web site, and invite all non-idiot nomads from your ancestral homeland Uyguristan to comment ?

    That will work.
    , @This Is Our Home

    This website is full of idiots.
     
    Yes and racists and sexists and homophobes and transphobes etc.

    I get it.

    Either we're on board with your mass immigration agenda or we're idiots.

    After all one would have to be stupid to not want millions of Kamran's countrymen to settle in your country. Idiots!

    Fine, we Europeans are happy to be idiots and keep our countries, welfare money and high social trust. So please be clever and keep away from us idiots.

    Also I quite like those extreme idiots in Japan so please don't try to force them to stop being such idiots. Please let them and us remain idiots unenlightened by your vibrancy.

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  227. @joe webb
    so, Jeff, because you pussies got no argument you will indeed tip-toe past me since I can beat you hands down in any argument, not personal attack.

    So for the sake of clarity, how many folks her block me, as opposed to pussy-footing past me. I realize that if they block me ...yeah yeah.

    This list is largely a waste of my time .

    JW

    pussies ain’t personal? I don’t block anyone, I just think you discredit your own arguments, and constantly score “own goals” for “our” side, and its a little embarrassing, I like your spirit, though. I just want to go into the store, get my courvoisier, go home and listen to some Manilow. Good day to you, sir!

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  228. joe webb says:

    more on tip-toeing past me, Joe Webb. I happen to be reading the Iliad, you know, that old white racist piece from about 2800 or more years ago.

    The warriors insult one-another but not from hiding places. They come out, expose themselves and hurl their spears. They do not complain and they do not whine.

    In other words they state their arguments and stand and fight, and do not flee or tip-toe around.

    Albertson, thank you for the compliment. Mostly jews do not stand and fight, they tip-toe around until they can ambush their enemies from undercover.

    So, if you are a jew, at least you are telling the truth, that my spears are thrown more accurately than yours, thus hitting the mark.

    Need I remind folks that the point of debate, or free speech, is to avoid war and civil war? Come let us Reason together, the White Man’s Way, not the Magian East’s way of mere killing of enemies and free speech be damned inasmuch as argument is not understood to be a rational exchange between civilized people who possess a strong measure of self-restraint.

    The world from which this osmose guy comes is pure irrational hatreds screamed by hordes of screaming natives, Allah is Great kill the infidel, etc. The Jews come from the Magian region, and have historically demonstrated the collectivism and group-think and religious bigotry of their semitic and other cohorts from Oriental Despotism’s deserts, jungles and arid plains.

    It took the West, namely the dreamer Napoleon the Democrat, to drag them out of their preferred ghetto and into the West. A guy named Cuddihy wrote a book about that…”The Ordeal of Civility.” It was not clear whether Cuddihy thinks the Jews can become civil and learn to live with Others, particularly those more civilized than themselves, or not. So far they are failing the test inasmuch they still hate everybody. And of course, project that hatred onto anybody who calls them to account. The goyem hate us! yes many do but for other reasons…basically jewish actual behavior.

    Joe Webb
    J

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  229. Avery says:
    @Kamran
    This website is full of idiots.

    Is that why you are visiting regularly and commenting regularly @UNZ.com, Uyguroğlu ?
    Why don’t you start a Turkish web site, and invite all non-idiot nomads from your ancestral homeland Uyguristan to comment ?

    That will work.

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  230. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Kamran
    This website is full of idiots.

    This website is full of idiots.

    Yes and racists and sexists and homophobes and transphobes etc.

    I get it.

    Either we’re on board with your mass immigration agenda or we’re idiots.

    After all one would have to be stupid to not want millions of Kamran’s countrymen to settle in your country. Idiots!

    Fine, we Europeans are happy to be idiots and keep our countries, welfare money and high social trust. So please be clever and keep away from us idiots.

    Also I quite like those extreme idiots in Japan so please don’t try to force them to stop being such idiots. Please let them and us remain idiots unenlightened by your vibrancy.

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  231. joe webb says:

    A small comment on the Deep State argument. It is symtomatic of non-deep thinkers to go on and on about conspiracies.

    For example, on the racial right as well as elsewhere there is the old Deep State thinking too. However, not much of that except around The Fed.

    Steve Snegowski wrote the book on the Jewish takeover of US foreign policy, “The Transparent Cabal.” It provided everything you wanted to know, or did not want to know, especially for those who just want to drop by he liquor store and be spared heavy reading.

    Point: Sniegowski demolishes any Deep State thinking with regard to the jewish hijacking of US foreign policy. It is all there out in the open. It is not even hiding in the open. It is right there in front of us for anyone to see, or better, cares to see despite 3 martini lunches and JewTV.

    Now, take publishing and free speech suppression. The media and publishing is largely dominated by Jews. And they suppress anything contrary to their group interests. Nevertheless, what with the internet and the cheapness of publishing stuff today, words get out for those who care to see.

    If there is a Deep State in the USA, it is the monkey see, hear, speak no Evil of the Deep Self Censorship of media flunkies. 99 % of the media workers self-censor, in the Deep sense of refusing to Go There…thinking about racial inequality, black Failure, Jewish domination of the media, Israel, and the communist nature of liberalism (Liberalism as the pimping little siste