Arizona has been getting a similar advert sponsored by ‘American Security Initiative’ which is out of Texas. The Arizona version warns senators and/or congressmen that “they will be held to account.” ‘American Security Initiative’ is trying to spook Sen. Jeff ‘snow’ Flake. I think Flake has already capitulated to his Israelis sponsors.
Nonetheless, the advert is wildly off the mark and rife with innuendo and baldfaced lies.
Thank you Mr. Giraldi for bringing light to one very dark corner of Zionist subterfuge.

who cares? What were they doing over there anyway? If you are over there and get killed, tough luck. Don’t go over there and ya won’t get killed.

Phil, as always, great job at debunking the lies pumped out by the Lobby. Thank goodness for Internet sites like UR, as you’d never read an article like this in the MSM.

Ironically, the 2003 American invasion advanced Iranian interests by taking out Saddam’s Sunni regime, allowing the Shi’ to take over the Iraqi government and army. Also, as Mr. Giraldi pointed out, the suicide bombers were disaffected Sunni who were removed from the Iraqi army and government. Knowing these basic facts is the key to discrediting Neocon agitprop.

It is really unfortunate that Sergeant Bartlett and others like him are allowing themselves to be used by Neocons – again.
Their anger should be directed at those who sent them illegally into a country that had neither threatened not attacked US, where 1000s were unfortunately badly wounded or crippled (in addition to about 4,500 being killed)
And it is a little strange that no mention is being made in those ads of 100s of 1000s dead and crippled Iraqis, and the fact that a functioning, ordered State has been turned into a dystopia.
At the hands of American wounded warriors like Sergeant Bartlett.

And all these efforts to derail the Iran agreement in the US Congress are for naught.
US can reject the agreement, and it will have zero effect because EU countries will move ahead regardless of what US does, and US will be standing all alone.

EU will lift the sanctions no matter what US Congress does.
The game is over.

@ Avery,
“…US will be standing all alone.” When it comes to Israel and the Middle East, the US is also always standing alone. If the deal passes, this will be a rare moment in which the United States isn’t completely isolated from the EU and the rest of the world.

I’ll point out if the Iranians wished to use Iraqi Sunnis to kill Americans, it’d be as simple as employing a ‘cut-out’ (in the trade craft sense) but even then it would make little sense. The Americans were clearly positioning themselves for disaster in Iraq, relating to the Sunnis particularly, and all Iran needed do was sit back and watch the show. And likely that’s mostly what they did; and of course things are never so simple as surface symptoms. It was during David Petraeus first tour in Iraq where he was assigned to train and organize the Iraqi police ‘elites’, people running a program promoting what became the sectarian civil war were directly reporting to him:

A 15-month investigation by the Guardian and BBC Arabic reveals how retired US colonel James Steele, a veteran of American proxy wars in El Salvador and Nicaragua, played a key role in training and overseeing US-funded special police commandos who ran a network of torture centres in Iraq. Another special forces veteran, Colonel James Coffman, worked with Steele and reported directly to General David Petraeus, who had been sent into Iraq to organise the Iraqi security services

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/mar/06/james-steele-america-iraq-video

^ Associated with this endeavor were Shia death squads aka ‘Badr Brigades’ (populated with Petraeus trained Iraqi ‘police commandos’) from which endeavors the city of Baghdad had to collect the numerous Sunni bodies found dead on the street every morning, for years. Small wonder the Sunnis are blowing up Baghdad markets in Shia neighborhoods to this day.

Sgt Bartlett’s enemies aren’t necessarily Iraqis or Iranians, good call Phil -

One day the Iraqis are capable of producing a nuclear weapon and the next they are incapable of making an EFP. How strange the ways of American propaganda!

It was during David Petraeus first tour in Iraq where he was assigned to train and organize the Iraqi police ‘elites’

I can just envision David Petraeus rummaging around in the basement of The Pentagon, “Now where did we put those old Savak training manuals.”

Agree

LOL, you think you get to choose your venues of deployment in the military. “Don’t be there” is the same justification blacks and progtards use to justify themselves. Also, who cares? Families of the soldiers killed, buddies of th soldiers killed, etc.

Well, when he Iraqis were working on nukes, the heavy lifting in research there wasn’t really done by anyone born in Iraq.

I’m going to get lynched for this, and I don’t know how much value to put in it but here goes…

In the British army in Afghanistan, in my own experience it was generally accepted/rumoured by all that the best Taliban IEDs were of Iranian design.

I don’t know where this notion came from but it was widespread and also repeated by our intelligence officers.

To me it makes perfect sense and is nothing to get revenge for.

All countries have supported those also opposed to them at some point in order to stick it to a mutual enemy.

The same logic applies to some extent with the Iranians and the Sunnis in Iraq.

Just as now the Hazara in Afghanistan have a better relationship with the Taliban, in order to stick it to Islamic State.

hey, I was in the military, too.

But if you go into the military, you put your life at risk. Don’t come crying to me when that risk comes to fruition.

Especially if you die in some faraway nation where we have no business being.

the iraqis NEED the bomb….otherwise the USA is gonna invade them and they will be fodder for the global corporations….

{“…was generally accepted/rumoured by all that the best Taliban IEDs were of Iranian design.”}

Right: “generally accepted/rumoured”.
Sounds like hard evidence to me.

And what does “Iranian design” mean ?
The shaped charge design has been known for decades: it is no big secret.
As Mr. Giraldi wrote above, the hard part, if there is such a thing for an IED, is actually building it.

If you actually were in the British Army in Afghanistan, and the rumour was as you describe, then it was planted by your superiors to create the narrative for future Anti-Iranian disinformation.

Margolis has a good article about how Brits ” sexed up the intelligence” (we call it “lying”) to give themselves the excuse to invade:

http://www.unz.com/emargolis/republicans-cant-face-the-truth-about-iraq/

{PM Tony Blair, forced British intelligence services to “sex up” reports that Iraq had nuclear weapons; he purged the government and the venerable broadcaster BBC of journalists who failed to amplify Blair’s lies. Bush and Blair reportedly discussed painting a US Air Force plane in UN colors and getting it to buzz Iraqi anti-aircraft sites in hope the Iraqis would fire on it. Bush told Blair that after conquering Iraq, he intended to invade Iran, Syria, Libya and Pakistan.}

Those are the leaders who feed you the “generally accepted/rumoured” stuff, mate.

do the words ALL- VOLUNTEER MILITARY mean anything to you, regresstard?

If folks don’t lend their bodies and suspend their brains for Bush, Cheney, Obama, Petraeus, and the Izzies to use to kill other people’s children, they’d have to do the killing themselves.

Can you picture Robert Kagan or Kimberly Kagan living in a barracks and shouldering a MANPAD?

agree with radical:

It is true that when you sign up, you go where you are sent.
But it is also true that every American who enlists takes an oath to support and defend the US Constitution.
What part of the US Constitution was Sergeant Bartlett defending in Iraq?

I have no problem with POTUS hitting back at Taliban in Afghanistan after 9/11, because of the circumstances.
But an illegal war of choice with Iraq is another matter.
Sergeant Bartlett _volunteered_ to join the military and agreed to be sent wherever he is ordered to.
He took his chances.
He should not cry about an enemy hitting back when he was there to kill them.
He should get all the medical care, etc due him by his country which sent him to Iraq: part of the deal.

But the problem is that he is now participating in a disinformation campaign to derail a peace initiative.
What Neocons want is another war – with Iran.
That’s their ultimate objective.
Peace is like light to these bloodthirsty vampires.
And Sergeant Bartlett is participating in that effort.
So that some other future Sergeant Bartletts will get crippled in a future war with a country that is no threat to US and never has been.

That is why Sergeant Bartlett loses a lot of sympathy from people here.

Not wanting to do the bidding of Israel is understandable, since many in the US Congress care more for Israel’s sovereignty and security than our own. However, to claim that Shia militia members, supported by Iran, were NOT running wild in Iraq is probably willful ignorance on the part of the author. Hezbollah operatives were captured by US forces inside Iraq, and they were absolutely responsible for the deaths of American soldiers.
The deal with Iran could easily be opposed simply based on the fact that John Kerry made it and Barack Obama supports it. Neither of these men have America’s best interests at heart. Just because they’re sticking it to Israel on this one issue doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

Much ado about nothin’. If the world did not pause, and take a collective sigh of relief when this agreement, any agreement, is made with Iran, well, you ain’t done nothin’. Nothing has changed, worse yet, there is no way for it to change. Don’t believe me? Go over the remarks and comments made by the participants of this “deal” and you find that the absolute last consideration of this agreement is peace.
This agreement, as far as the US side of it is concerned, is the result of a child President, totally incompetent for the job, and who has surrounded himself with stupid people, adolescent stupid people at that, who’s method of advising is to stand around in a circle shouting, “Do this! Do that!”. This agreement was concluded by a complete failure named John Kerry, and was done so in a state of panic, simply to try and give the Idiot-in Chief some sort of “legacy”. Amateurs at work!

So we try to talk about this “treaty” like it really means something, like this article, an “in depth” look at a fresh dog turd in the front yard.

cui bono is pretty simple at this point. Israeli hardliners want Iran atomized like Iraq. To some Iraq looks like a disaster, to others it is a great success in breaking up a barrier to Israel’s ‘clean break’….
I expect the mountains of propaganda and ‘bad intelligence’ continue.

This agreement has only one purpose – get us out of the sanctions business before Europe and Japan break ranks with us and get out on their own leaving us as the only country with sanctions on Iran. Other countries are sick of being told what to do in their international relations by us. Europe and Japan want to buy Iranian oil and gas and sell things to Iran.

The titan arum, the first of two flowers in this list nicknamed the corpse flower, carries the unfortunate designation of being “the worst smelling flower in the world.” It smells like — you guessed it — a stinking, rotting corpse

http://www.mnn.com/your-home/organic-farming-gardening/photos/9-of-the-worst-smelling-flowers-in-the-world/titan-arum

So how many people around the world have been killed and maimed by American made weapons? There’s probably a lot of anger about that also but our media doesn’t report on that issue. IEDs are not high tech weapons like we happen to have such as helicopter gunships, drones, jet fighters and bombers, guided missiles, etc, all of which we are using against underarmed insurgents. Perhaps Mr Bartlett would like to trade weapons with them?
Of course Iran is going to get involved in the region; it’s right next door to them. We are the ones traveling thousands of miles to interfere in other countries. It’s not like the old days when natives armed with spears could be mowed down with modern weapons. They’ve learned, gone to university, know world politics, have other successful insurgencies as examples, and have the determination to continue fighting. Remember, they live there and we don’t.

I agree that “sanctions” may be a tiny, ancillary, aspect of the treaty, but if that was the only issue, the Obama WH would never have touched it. Without sanctions, what weapons do this country have? Besides, sanctions ARE the typical American weapon of choice, as if makes everyone else do our fighting for us.
Are you saying that if EU and Japan break ranks, we are defenseless? If that is so, this “treaty” ain’t gonna help shite.
But you’ve got to look at the production company. David Lean turns out masterpieces, the Sci-Fi channel productions are thought of as junk by 4 year-olds. If this Iran Treaty dog turd is only half the size of the Obamacare dog turd, we ought to be in the middle of World War IV by this time next week.

disclaimer: Some of what our smelly flower says is absolutely correct; re Kerry, Obama and the adolescents running things while shouting ‘do this! do that!! … particularly Sam Power and Susan Rice. On the other hand, no agreement seems like handing the next neo-con-in-chief a free pass to initiate Bibi’s desired result -

This agreement has only one purpose – get us out of the sanctions business before Europe and Japan break ranks with us…

That certainly appears to be the only logical purpose.

Dr Giraldi,

A little off topic but I have a question for you:

Do you suspect (or speculate for that matter), that WINEP, AIPAC etc. are receiving any direct funding from monies earmarked for loan guarantees to Israel by the U.S., (i.e., from the $5.8b recently “upgraded ” amount)? The reason I ask is that my inquiries re: membership dues, average contributions and estimated expenditures are not tallying within a tolerable limit.

In 2012-13 the USA sold more than $26.9 billion worth of weapons to foreign nations – $3.7 billion to the UAE alone. How many people do you think were killed, maimed, or bereaved by THOSE weapons?

Incidentally, any Americans taking part in the unprovoked war of aggression against Iraq were automatically committing war crimes by doing so. Had they stayed at home where they belonged, they would have come to no harm (unless of course they were attacked by the violent American police).

“…they are already at war with us…”

True only in the sense that the USA had committed many, serious and repeated acts of war against Iran. As in so many other cases, Americans do so smugly, certain that the victim nation cannot retaliate in any way.

Historically, such assumptions have a nasty way of turning round and biting one’s leg to the bone.

Right: “generally accepted/rumoured”.
Sounds like hard evidence to me

I recognised your point in my post.

And what does “Iranian design” mean ?
The shaped charge design has been known for decades: it is no big secret.
As Mr. Giraldi wrote above, the hard part, if there is such a thing for an IED, is actually building it.

Mr Giraldi is absolutely incorrect on this point. IED design is a complex field and was extremely innovative in Afghanistan.

The difficulty is not only the shaped charge but making it undetectable. One innovation, for example, was zero metal content pressure plate IEDs.

Other IEDs, such as remote detonate devices, also require significant innovation. This is in order to defeat the different and sophisticated jamming decides deployed by ISAF forces.

Also there is an art as to where to place them, how to chain them together and how to shape them to defeat heavily armoured vehicles.

ISAF nations spent incredible amounts of money to defeat the ever changing and innovating IEDs in Afghanistan and I assume it was the same in Iraq.

You discredit yourself with your utter cluelessness.

Those are the leaders who feed you the “generally accepted/rumoured” stuff, mate

I wouldn’t trust Tony Blair as far as I can throw him but the information is I have, though not formal, is certainly based on the experience on analysis of middle-ranking individuals.

I don’t know if it is true, but I do know that Mr Giraldi knows nothing about IEDs, much less even than the typical private soldier.

“And it is a little strange that no mention is being made in those ads of 100s of 1000s dead and crippled Iraqis…”

Avery, that’s at least 2.8 million dead Iraqis – plus an unknown but very large number of crippled. The bereaved and homeless number even more. Half a Holocaust: a memorable achievement.

See “Genocide in Iraq” (2 volumes) by Abdul-Haq Al-Ani and Tarik Al-Ani.

The democratically elected government, which rules through the consent of the people, sent those soldiers to Iraq.

I vehemently disagree with the Iraq War and I do not agree with the vast majority of government policies, but I also have the humility to recognise that it is not my choice and that I have a duty.

Obviously there are limits to duty, but soldiers volunteers to follow the directions of a government.

A government which the people allows to govern.

If the people allow the government to send the soldiers off to pointlessly die then the least the people can do is support those soldiers.

That is one of the fundamental issues of “democracy”. Honourable men and women sign up to join the armed forces and defend their country. But by doing so they put themselves at the mercy of ruthless self-seeking psychopaths who have the power to send them off to murder innocent people who have done them no harm, nor ever intend to do so.

If our nations were truly ruled by law, rather than men, the soldier would then be able to lodge a conscientious objection and either be allowed to reject the mission or to resign honourably and with full pay and benefits. However that is treated as refusal to obey orders, and punished severely – just as if the Nuremberg Tribunal had never sat.

“Well, when he Iraqis were working on nukes, the heavy lifting in research there wasn’t really done by anyone born in Iraq”.

The same could be said about Americans with reference to the Manhattan Project.

However, to claim that Shia militia members, supported by Iran, were NOT running wild in Iraq is probably willful ignorance on the part of the author.

Exactly. Probably every British soldier who died in Iraq through enemy action was killed by Shia militiamen. It does not make those militias bad per se, but it is a fact worth remembering.

It is weird that Mr Giraldi wants to pretend that this is not the case.

“But if you go into the military, you put your life at risk. Don’t come crying to me when that risk comes to fruition.

“Especially if you die in some faraway nation where we have no business being”.

That’s illogical. People join the armed forces to defend their country, not to attack nations that have done nothing to deserve it and kill innocent civilians.

We need some mechanism whereby members of the armed forces can refuse to participate in such illegal adventures.

Or, if that’s too difficult, we need some honest politicians.

Nah, that’s impossible. We need some mechanism whereby members of the armed forces can refuse to participate in such illegal adventures.

cui bono is pretty simple at this point. Israeli hardliners want Iran atomized like Iraq. To some Iraq looks like a disaster, to others it is a great success in breaking up a barrier to Israel’s ‘clean break’….
I expect the mountains of propaganda and ‘bad intelligence’ concas

If cui bono is the deciding factor then the Iranian lobby was responsible for the Iraq War.

They benefited the most, easily.

The truth is more complicated as it always is. There were hundreds of motivations for the war and innumerable parties pushing for it.

“One innovation, for example, was zero metal content pressure plate IEDs”.

Would they be anything like the wooden land mines the Russians were using in 1941?

On the other hand, no agreement seems like handing the next neo-con-in-chief a free pass to initiate Bibi’s desired result -

imo US Congress nixing the deal is the best thing that could happen, for USA, long-term, and Iran, which, again imo would make a better ally to USA than Izzies, and also a stabilizing force in region. Iran is capable of cooperating with KSA, imo.

The more money Izzies pump into sabotaging the deal the bigger the billboard is that says “ISRAEL WRECKED A PEACE [sic] DEAL.”

At least in some corners of the world, and maybe in the USA, this will be seen as a bad thing. It will attach a flower-like fragrance to brand Izzie.

Congresspersons who stopped and smelled those Izzie flowers will likewise come away stinking — as Germany, Italy, France, England, Russia, China trade with Iran and US economy fails.

The arrows of that economic failure will point to Bibi and the Izzies.

Americans will suffer.
That’s what it’s going to take to pull out the Izzie stink-flower from the USA landscape. If it’s just an economic collapse, and it gets the Izzies out of US, it’s a small price to pay and far less than a just god would impose.

If the Iran deal is approved, Iran will be under much too much scrutiny and USISrael will cheat — they’ve already started to cheat. Izzies will kill Iranian scientists. Not much will really change for the people of Iran: as long as a ‘deal’ is in place, the Iranian government will have to be on high alert. This means that the Iranian people will not have the freedom of movement to reform their government to their preferences since both the Iranian people and their government will have to adopt a defensive posture against AngloZionist intrusions and subversive efforts.

I urge congress to vote against the deal. It’s the least-onerous, best chance I can see to liberate USA from the Izzie strangle-hold.

Thanks.

The deep pockets are true enough. However, knowing how they approach membership for one-off or special projects, and the estimated “normal” budgets (even adjusted for growth), ex-special projects, seem incapable of meeting what I ballpark the last two years worth of spending. I cannot be sure of course, but the simple conclusion I am getting is that things do not add up.

“The democratically elected government, which rules through the consent of the people, sent those soldiers to Iraq”.

For some values of “democratically elected” and “consent”.

As I recall, New Labour with Tony Blair as its leader polled rather lower in winning the British general election than the Nazi party did with Hitler as its leader. Was it 24 percent? If Blair had a democratic mandate, so did Hitler.

And what about the 1 million people who marched through London to protest against the decision to invade Iraq? Blair utterly ignored them. Yet when a few hundred agitators get up on their hind legs in Russia, Ukraine, or Armenia, suddenly that’s a popular uprising.

“Hezbollah operatives”? I think you are trying to give the impression that members of the armed Lebanese movement known as “Hezbollah” were fighting American forces in Iraq. There is in fact a political party in Iraq, called the “Harkat Hizb-Allah fi’l ‘Iraq” or Hezbollah Movement in Iraq. According to the Wikipedia article on it, “[i]t is not affiliated with the Lebanese group Hezbollah or other groups using the name,” and I have seen no mention that it has an armed militia associated with it. Now, would you like to provide the rest of us with a link to some credible source substantiating your claim that “Hezbollah operatives” who were “absolutely responsible for the deaths of American soldiers” have at any time been “captured by US forces inside Iraq”?

I vehemently disagree with the Iraq War and I do not agree with the vast majority of government policies, but I also have the humility to recognise that it is not my choice and that I have a duty.
If the people allow the government to send the soldiers off to pointlessly die then the least the people can do is support those soldiers.

Your statement is morally obtuse.

Which are you first, Deduction:

1. Are you your own moral agent?
Did somebody hog-tie you to a gun and force you to enlist in the voluntary military?
Did someone program your brain so that the only option you had was to follow policies you do not agree with?
Does this phrase ring any bells: “I was just following orders.”

2. Are you a member of “the people” who “allow the government” to send you to kill other people’s children, or are you a robot programmed — “duty-grammed” — to pointlessly kill other people’s children?
What did you do about those government policies that you disagree with?
YOU acquiesced to carry them out, with extreme prejudice.

Is your argument that YOU, who hold the gun, aim it, fire it, don’t have a choice whether or not to kill other people’s children in wars and policies that you disagree with,

but WE who write, lobby, call, research, argue, contribute, organize, and rail against government policies that we disagree with, at the risk of careers etc. that we might have, or at the opportunity cost of careers foregone in our choice to fight against immoral government policies, are somehow culpable for your acts to the extent that we should support your acts of murder — the very thing we are fighting against?

If you refused to enlist and fire the gun, Deduction, those government policies would have no way of being implemented, just as the head of a criminal gang would be nowhere without his hired guns.

Hell no I don’t support you or any military apparatchik.

troglodyte

Would they be anything like the wooden land mines the Russians were using in 1941

Haha, it is a funny point you make but it doesn’t really negate mine.

I absolutely know, as does anyone who went to Afghanistan as part of a military force, that the development and countering of IEDs were highly innovative endeavours and were treated as vital ground in the campaign by all involved.

Dr Giraldi does not seem to know this. For a subject matter expert this is bizarre.

To be honest, I’m loving this, as it is rare that I have a degree of actual knowledge and expertise that allows me to know one hundred percent for sure that a well-respected journalist, especially one whom I respect, has no clue.

Sorry Dr Giraldi but please do not write that IED design was a simple process again.

If cui bono is the deciding factor then the Iranian lobby was responsible for the Iraq War.

This is your brain on Deduction- reasoning.

By your logic, Benjamin Netanyahu, http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4501196/netanyahu-iran-regime-change

Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen, the Kagans, Doug Feith, Bill Kristol are the Iran Lobby.

And in what way is having your nation’s economy strangled, its young as well as older, more expert scientists murdered, its nation flooded with refugees from Iraq AND Afghanistan, “benefiting most?”

If that’s the case, Americans should be doing everything in their power to foment war in Texas, California, Colorado and Arizona so that immigrants will flee back to Mexico.
Do you think the citizens of TX, CA, CO, AZ would agree?

Hi Sam

I recall Ari Ben Menasche blowing the whistle on Israeli intelligence laundering some portion of their share of the Iran-Contra slush-fund money through AIPAC in his ‘Profits of War’ … were you perchance looking at a case of leopards seldom shed their spots, likely the sums will never add up, would be my take -

I doubt that the EU or Japan would “break ranks”. There is a scene from the movie “Patton” where Field Marshall Montgomery is upset at the American Generals because they don’t seem to be taking him seriously, and Monty’s aide reminds him, “But sir, they are paying the bills.” I don’t think the pragmatism of England, or the rest of Europe, has been reduced any since then.

I so wish that EU would “break ranks”, then we could say, “Fine. NATO is no more. We’re taking our troops and our stuff and we’re going home.” Wouldn’t that be great! An instant influx of cash into our economy. Cash that used to go to Europe. And, at no extra charge, a ready made, highly trained, influx of instant skilled labor. Why, with all that, we could, uh, I know, fix the fing infrastructure. Nah!
In the meantime, Brussels has 2 choices: 1. outlay a great big pile of cash to replace the military that just walked. And since this is the EU, each country’s military will be proportionate to their individual economies… Well, who do you think the EU frets about more, Iran or a fully re-armed Germany?
choice 2: put on kneepads and book the next flight to Moscow. But that would be just trading one bully for another. The Devil you know and all.

The same with Japan, only instead of kneepads and Moscow, it would be kneepads and Beijing.

Ronald Thomas West – anus, looks like an asterisk.

You are confusing IED design with delivery and trigger mechanisms for IEDs. Of course IED design has always been and remains simple rather than “sophisticated,” for the simple reason that “unsophisticated” insurgents and irregulars have to use them. The usual counter-measure against IEDs, including in Iraq, is the unsophisticated method of bomb-sniffing dogs. Your reference to Afghanistan is especially ironic since if you knew as much about IEDs as you claim, you would know that the US supplied the Afghan insurgents with IEDs in the 1980s to use against the Russians. Mr. Giraldi’s point is valid: there was no need for Iraqi insurgents to use Iranian “designs” in making and using IEDs against American forces.

And what about the 1 million people who marched through London to protest against the decision to invade Iraq? Blair utterly ignored them

It was a big march, but that is a small fraction of the British population. Furthermore it is to render the word British meaningless to term many of the marchers as such.

Ultimately the pro-war camp won the argument and whatever people here say, the majority supported the war because they really believed in the moral and utopian aspect of it.

As I recall, New Labour with Tony Blair as its leader polled rather lower in winning the British general election than the Nazi party did with Hitler as its leader. Was it 24 percent? If Blair had a democratic mandate, so did Hitler.

Your recollection is wrong – couldn’t you have checked? It was 43.2 percent. Which added to just one of the other parties which supported it (Conservative), makes it 73.9 percent.

Yet when a few hundred agitators get up on their hind legs in Russia, Ukraine, or Armenia, suddenly that’s a popular uprising.

Yes, the western media does love sticking it to the Ruskies. They’re the enemy du jour. It’s stupid but hardly unusual in human history.

Indeed, any British citizen who wished, in the general election of 1997, to elect a party that would not launch illegal unprovoked wars of aggression, would have been unable to do so. Only three parties – Labour, the Conservatives, and perhaps the Liberal Democrats – had any practical chance of gaining power or even a share of power. And all of them were, and still are, not just willing but positively enthusiastic about aggression. They rarely saw an opportunity of bombing a defenceless foreign country that they didn’t like.

Democracy, as we practice it, doesn’t look quite so wonderful when you remember that it makes every citizen – whether he voted for the governing party or not, indeed whether he voted at all or not – jointly responsible for all acts of the government. Thus all British citizens became war criminals in 2003 – even those who vociferously protested against it. Yet no British citizen had an opportunity to vote for a party that would not participate in such a war!

They don’t care, to them if you wear that uniform you deserve to die. Most of what passes for reasoning among this lot is just a variation of the rapist who exclaims “she had it coming because of the way she dressed”.

It’s quite obvious here. Not a shred of humanity. Cheney and Rummy have nothing on them.

“Probably every British soldier who died in Iraq through enemy action was killed by Shia militiamen”.

So you are alleging that the Iraqi armed forces failed to kill a single British soldier? And that Iraqi militias also failed to kill a single British soldier?

The crazies have arrived…

…but to repeat my post which you completely avoided.

I am humble enough to recognise my own limitations. I am humble enough to serve.

I did not serve without questioning but I recognise my place in a much larger society and the fact that I have a duty to submit to the general will.

If everyone was a mentally deranged egomaniac who decides that it was their own particular conception of the truth or the highway then nothing would ever get done, nothing would be achieved and we would live in a hobbesian war of all against all.

Certainly I can object and protest but in my previous role I had given up that ability, temporarily, in order to serve.

Of course, as I said before, there are limits, but I was given lawful orders by my legitimate government. And I value that process, my country and my society more than I value my opinion.

Actually you implied that, after all Shia Militias most certainly used IEDs.

is there an argument in that one word, RTW?

Oh, codswallop.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-sees-new-weapon-in-iraq-iranian-efps/

“But the argument about Iranian involvement in Iraq was itself logically inconsistent, something that Crocker and Petraeus should have understood. The Iraqi insurgency in the period 2004-2006 was largely Sunni and hostile to Iran. That the Iranians would be supplying the Sunnis or that the Sunnis would have sought such aid was implausible.”

This will be news to the Iranian-aligned Mahdi Army and Muqtada Sadr, who were running a parallel insurgency in Baghdad, Najaf, and Basrah.

[…] Originally published in the Unz Review. […]

the crazies never left and they read every word of your comment.

it is still morally obtuse.

building highways is vastly different from killing people in a war that is illegitimate.

Pardon me for not elucidating the term in reference to yourself, but now I’ll spell it out for you, it was an insult: T_R_O_G_L_O_D_Y_T_E

http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/04/06/perverts-of-western-philosophy/

^ You’d be in good company with these (above-linked) nit-wits. My policy in regards to your anti-Semitic self is from here out one of promoting the similar idiots I write about at my blog-

Gareth Porter: Don’t Expect Much Change in Post-Vienna US Middle East Policy The well-worn mindset of senior officials and institutional interests will continue

the most [the Obama] administration would do is to lecture Iran on what it needed to do to correct its misbehavior.

It’s up to Iranians to figure out how they should behave.

As Deduction has been implying, US policies are such that doing one’s patriotic duty is morally confusing.

As others on this thread have pointed out, US is over there, They are not over HERE.

As an American I have neither the ability nor the right to change Iranian behavior.
I have the obligation — as Deduction insisted — to try to shape American government behavior/policies.

From this troglodyte’s limited and humble perspective, I believe that getting out of the way of the Izzie lobby as it takes a blunderbuss to its head is one way to begin to turn this Ship of State that is headed in an extremely dangerous and horrible direction.

I could be wrong.
“Troglodyte” is neither corrective nor persuasive.

Thanks for the link – lot of good quotes in it. Like this:

The so-called Iran dossier, a small portion of which was revealed in Baghdad on Sunday, was revised heavily after officials decided it was not ready for release as planned last month. U.S. military officials in Baghdad had even scheduled a briefing for reporters only to cancel it a day later.

Senior U.S. officials in Washington — gun-shy after the drubbing the administration took for the faulty intelligence leading to the 2003 Iraq invasion — had held back because they were unhappy with the original presentation.

“Codswallop,” eh? Sounds like that’s exactly the word to describe the claims made in the eight year old story you linked to.

We have an all voluntary military. Use you head DON’T volunteer.

Should read…your head….

troglodyte

CBS throwing shade on the Bush administration in the run-up to an election? Who’d a thunk it? Subtract the CBS editorializing.

http://musingsoniraq.blogspot.com/2011/07/how-iran-used-explosively-formed.html

Note that EFPs were introduced in the Shia areas, not the Sunni that Giraldi claims. The Shiite Badr Brigade was working closely with Quds Force Iranians.

“In the summer and fall of 2005, the Coalition began publicly complaining about Iranian assistance to militants, and especially about EFPs. In June, the Pentagon claimed Iran was sending EFPs into Iraq. (1) The next month, a large shipment of the devices was captured in Diyala. The Pentagon then claimed that the weapon was behind the May death of the ten British soldiers in Basra. That led U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalizad and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to tell the press that Tehran was interfering in Iraq. The U.S. military also found two high-quality videos of how to build EFPs, which were just like CDs captured by Israel from Hezbollah in Lebanon. That set off speculation by the Americans that the Lebanese group was working within Iraq, which they had been since 2003. In September, Sadrist cleric, and breakaway Mahdi Army commander Sheikh Ahmad Majid al-Fartusi was arrested for carrying out attacks upon the British in Basra, which included EFPs. By October, the English were also chiming in, accusing the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and Hezbollah of providing EFPs to the Mahdi Army in southern Iraq.
…
The man delivering EFPs to Iraq was Abu Sheibani. He was a former commander in the Badr Brigade, who was in charge of their operations in Baghdad during the 1990s. In 2005, he had around 280 men under his command broken up into 17 cells. Some of them had received training in Lebanon from Hezbollah. They were not only responsible for shipping weapons to Iraq, but for sending Iraqis to Iran for training. Sheibani also conducting some attacks upon Coalition forces himself. He was told by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards to contact as many groups as possible that were opposed to the occupation, and get them to carry out attacks in return for armaments. At its height, there were EFP cells stretching from Basra in the south to Kirkuk in the north where Shiite Turkmen and Arabs were used. Sheibani was eventually put on a waned list by Baghdad, and he ended up fleeing to Iran. While Sadr and his Mahdi Army were usually blamed for carrying out attacks upon the Coalition, it was actually older Badr Brigade elements that were arming them. The Badr Brigade was created by Iran during the Iran-Iraq War as part of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, and fought against Saddam Hussein. They were therefore more trusted than Sadr or any of his militiamen, who Tehran considered unpredictable, and it was they who early on were delivering weapons into Iraq.
…
In the summer, the use of EFPs suddenly dived. From July to October 2007, there were 50% less attacks using the devices. This was part of a larger cut back in operations by Special Groups. The cause of the decrease was Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki who told Iran that it needed to stop its weapons shipments because they were not only leading to more American casualties, but also Shiite on Shiite violence. He was referring to the Badr Brigade and the Mahdi Army, which were carrying on a running war against each other across southern Iraq. By December, Iraq’s Foreign Minister claimed that Iran was helping with the security situation. Tehran used the flow of weapons and money to militants as a way to control them. When the Surge started at the beginning of 2007, they vastly increased the number of EFPs heading to Iraq. By the middle of the year, when these weapons were being used by Iran’s allies against each other, it rolled back some of its support in order to put a damper on the internecine violence.

The Persian Letters, Montesquieu:

In Letter 11, Usbek tells the story of the troglodytes . . .

[The troglodytes/ the harem] have a king who was unable to control them [so] they killed him in order to “reform their natural wickedness.” They decided “each one would look after his own interests exclusively, without considering those of others”. [sounds like the way Andrew Bacevich delicately describes Israelis as "working for their own interests"]

This barbarian state would soon lead to their collapse for they were unable to fully provide for themselves on their own. The alliances that were broken, the lies, deceit, and stealing were not punished because the bigger man always won, literally. Having no responsibility to anyone or anything left many behind, killing much of the race.

There was a time when the Troglodytes were very sick and a doctor came to help them, but they refused to pay for his services because they were not forced to by anyone. When disease struck again the Doctor refused to come back and help, leaving many more to die.

[Eventually], the entire race of Troglodytes [died] save two, who “understood what justice was; they loved virtue” (p.58). They resurrected the race and gave it structure to make it beneficial to all people. [note to Sam Shama: find these two non-zionist Israelis!]

. . . Troglodytes show that civilization needs to have structure and a way to determine laws, punishments, and other factors of the society’s way of life.

Good thing Dog added the “through enemy action” qualifier as I believe a number of Brits were blown away in US airstrikes.

All funds are fungible! If the U.S. Congress votes U.S. tax dollars to supply Israel with armaments and delivery systems, nuclear research and development, this allows Israel funds to educate and provide universal health care for its citizens and funds to be used to build settlements upon captured Palestinian land. Furthermore, Israel receives annually $1 billion in cash U.S. tax dollars for whatever Israel decides it needs! Remember the headlines in the “State of the Onion” publication — Israel has spent $250 million or more used to bomb and “mow the lawn” [as explained by Israeli military] in the 5-6 mile wide and 26 mile long Gaza strip. The headline reads “Israel needs money to replace bombs used against 1.8 million Gaza population — U.S. Congress vote $280 million tax dollars for Israel.” When I read the headline, I remember thinking I bet this was written to be satirical but sadly the U.S. Congress will use our needed tax dollars to fund the massacre. Congress voted $286 million several days later.

British soldiers wearing Arab dress tried to blast a prison cell to free some hardcore poisonous men and women .They got busted .They were spotted and captured . British government was not happy .
The hardcore poisonous British men and women wearing Arab dresses were earlier captured while they were in the middle of an unprovoked assault and on unarmed civilians in a popular Friday market . The British plan was part of Salvadorian plan that was to instigate civil war . There was no other explanation .

I have no problem with POTUS hitting back at Taliban in Afghanistan after 9/11

So you still buy this story about the Taliban having something to do with the 9/11 attacks.

Did you ever ask yourself what their motive was?

From the Oxford:

troglodyte |ˈträgləˌdīt|
noun
(especially in prehistoric times) a person who lived in a cave.
• a hermit.
• a person who is regarded as being deliberately ignorant or old-fashioned.
DERIVATIVES
troglodytic |ˌträgləˈditik| adjective.
troglodytism |-dīˌtizəm| noun
ORIGIN late 15th cent.: via Latin from Greek trōglodutēs, alteration of the name of an Ethiopian people, influenced by trōglē ‘hole.’

I’m rather referring to yourself as the archaic (lives in a cave) by way of metaphor as insult. This insult refers to a certain mentality that is cloistered from surrounding reality … for instance René Descartes excused his cruelties by positing animals cannot be conscious of pain when pursuing his hobby of vivisection:

http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/04/08/rene-descartes/

Your cold auto-reflex mentality would seem to share Descartes’ emotional voids and moral inversions…

And with that, goodnight.

“Your recollection is wrong – couldn’t you have checked? It was 43.2 percent”.

Which, multiplied by the turnout percentage of 71.3%, gives an overall percentage of 30.8%. Less than one-third of the electorate is hardly a convincing majority. I hope you will not argue that it is only the percentage of those who voted that counts; otherwise, if only 100 people vote out many millions, a party that got 10 votes could claim 50% support.

“It was a big march, but that is a small fraction of the British population. Furthermore it is to render the word British meaningless to term many of the marchers as such”.

It’s ridiculous to suppose that more than 1 million people would travel to London and march on a given day for any cause, no matter how important. Apart from anything else, the transport infrastructure would not allow such a huge movement of people; nor would there be physical space for them to assemble.

As for your suggestion that some of the marchers were not British, what on earth are you talking about? Do you think that hundreds of thousands of people flew in from Malaysia or Paraguay to take part in a march about British government policy?

A statement by CBS about the louche circumstances of the release of the report you tout is somehow “throwing shade” in February 2007 on a lame duck President? That’s a stretch – lawyers would call it “impeaching your own witness,” and it doesn’t help your credibility, fella. Also a stretch: quoting a poorly sourced, four year old entry on a blog by a school teacher in Berkeley, California in order to buttress your claims that Iran is the eminence grise behind IED attacks on American servicemen there. You’ll have to do better than that, but I don’t think you can.

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan.
Taliban was protecting him.
That is not speculation: it is fact.

We can engage in all sorts of speculations about 9/11.
I know there are too many unanswered questions.
But when the planes hit and 3,000 odd Americans and others were killed, you can’t expect POTUS to do nothing.

It is not a court of law, that you have to establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt, after months of testimony.
There was a tenuous connection of people based in Afghanistan to 9/11.
Bin Laden is not fiction.
He existed.
He publicly announced he would hit Americans back for the insult of basing troops in Saudi Arabia.
For siding withe Israel in their oppression of Palestinians.
There is fog of war.
You can’t be sure of anything when bullets fly.
When events like that happen, you have no idea what comes next.

Unlike Iraq, there was some plausible justification for hitting Afghanistan.
No justification for staying there for 10+ years.
Hit’em hard, destroy stuff, then leave.
Sorry, but when US mainland is attacked, you can’t debate who did it for the next X years.
You have to show everyone that there will be Hell to pay.

Completely different from the illegal invasion of Iraq, which had absolutely no connection to 9/11. None.
That’s how I see it.
You disagree: fine with me.

I added that qualifier, because obviously I know that fact, a point which is somewhat sore. Nonetheless it is generally accepted that war is complicated and American forces were always very generous to us.

I particularly love those Kliff bars I kept robbing!

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

As for your suggestion that some of the marchers were not British, what on earth are you talking about? Do you think that hundreds of thousands of people flew in from Malaysia or Paraguay to take part in a march about British government policy?

No…just that British has more meaning than simply any random punter from wherever in the world who happens to reside in Britain and has a passport.

We are a historical nation with a long and glorious history, and a unique and interesting culture. A piece of paper and residency doesn’t grant someone automatic entry to that.

Americans appear to really like poodles.

Peter Jenkins offers a modest proposal that makes a very persuasive case for US Congressional endorsement of Iran deal —

The Next Middle East Nuclear Challenge: Israel

The nuclear agreement with Iran opens the way to forging a nuclear-weapon-free zone (NWFZ) in the Middle East. Until now a Middle East NWFZ has had the hallmarks of a hopeless cause. It’s been all too easy for Israel to use fears aroused by Iran’s nuclear program to oppose the notion. The July 14 agreement deprives Israel of that excuse.

Don’t kid yourself about NATO. We want it more than they do except for maybe Poland and the Baltic States.

Are you saying that if EU and Japan break ranks, we are defenseless?

Not sue what your point is here? If you think Iran is not a threat as do most of the posters, then why do you even have sanctions on them? Who said anything about defending against Iran, we are just recognizing the facts on the ground – nobody else thinks Iran is a threat to them and see n0o reason for sanctions.

Israel and its satellite, the US, initiated the Iraq-Iran war for the exact reason – Iran was becoming too radical and too strong. This war worked out well for the instigators, not so well for Iraq and Iran. Then 20 years later, Israel and the US forgot what they did and imbalanced the Middle East by destroying Iraq, the natural counterweight to Iran. Iraq was destroyed to take revenge on Saddam for supporting the Palestinians and because Likudnic crazies decided that a better balance of Sunnis v. Shiites is 0:0, that is, destroy them both. Now, Israel and its satellite the US need to destroy Iran to re-balance Middle East again.

The problem was never the nuclear weapons that Iran may or may not have, the problem is that Iran does not resemble Iraq yet. The US has not finished the job given to it – the job is Israel’s unchallengeable domination of the Middle East. Iran is a dormant danger for Israel as long as it exists as an organized society.

The anti-Iran propaganda will stop only when Iran is made into Iraq.

It is much more interesting what will happen to those who hope to profit from the current situation: Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Hi Ron
Yes its becoming increasingly clear that obtaining financials are not meant to be a straightforward process nor bereft of consequences for the inquirer.

Giraldi is a shill for Muslims. Read up on his background.

1 “At the request of the MoD, British media obscured the faces of the two captured men. The two sides give wildly differing accounts of events, but it is not disputed that they had been sitting in a car outside the police station in Arabic dress. They were heavily armed and had an impressive array of surveillance equipment with them. It is not impossible that one or both of the men are not British. Special forces from Australia and New Zealand, for example, often work closely with the SAS. They could even be “civilian contractors” of the kind hired by the CIA, usually ex-special forces. But it is their mission that is more significant.”
Independent( UK)

2
According to the BBC’s Galpin, reporting for BBC Radio 4 (9/20/05, 18 hrs news script), Iraqi police sources in Basra told the BBC the “two British men were arrested after failing to stop at a checkpoint. There was an exchange of gunfire. The men were wearing traditional Arab clothing, and when the police eventually stopped them, they said they found explosives and weapons in their car…It’s widely believed the two British servicemen were operating undercover.”

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/CAUGHT_RED__0923.html

3 According to the Washington Post (9/20/05), “Iraqi security officials on Monday variously accused the two Britons they detained of shooting at Iraqi forces or trying to plant explosives.” Reuters (9/19/05) cited police, local officials and other witnesses who confirmed that “the two undercover soldiers were arrested after opening fire on Iraqi police who approached them.” Officials said that “the men were wearing traditional Arab headscarves and sitting in an unmarked car.”

Well according to S2C it (anti-sem) is a virtue forgotten, in much need of revival for the resurrection of the body and soul. So there is that spiritual thirst, you see..

“SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: Mr. Adelson, who gave large amounts of money to the Gingrich campaign. And much of Mr. Adelson’s casino profits that go to him come from this casino in Macau.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Which says what?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: Which says that, obviously, maybe in a roundabout way, foreign money is coming into an American campaign — political campaigns.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Because of the profits at the casinos in Macau?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: Yes. That is a great deal of money.”

http://reason.com/archives/2012/06/18/sheldon-adelsons-foreign-money-and-john

I thought that the IED lie had been somewhat effectively exposed when it was pointed out that the Iranians were unlikely to use English to document their weapons.

And according to the British hard right Propaganda Organ, The Daily Express,

They are still at it.

“SAS dress as ISIS fighters in undercover war on jihadis”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/595439/SAS-ISIS-fighter-Jihadis

Just who are you fuck-wits?

Sure, sure–it wasn’t like the Iraq war was a big election issue and portraying it in a certain way hurt Republicans. No incentive at all for CBS to inject some editorial comments into a story. The Army stood by its reports.

Giraldi made this claim:

But the argument about Iranian involvement in Iraq was itself logically inconsistent, something that Crocker and Petraeus should have understood. The Iraqi insurgency in the period 2004-2006 was largely Sunni and hostile to Iran. That the Iranians would be supplying the Sunnis or that the Sunnis would have sought such aid was implausible.

And hangs much of his article on this.

Shows the Mahdi army very nearly overrunning the coalition HQ in Najaf in April, 2004. That was a small element of the battles going on in the Shiite areas from Baghdad down to Basra. Clue: the insurgents weren’t Sunnis. There were parallel insurgencies going on, both Shiite and Sunni. The Shiites and Iranian allies had most of the EFPs.

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan.
Taliban was protecting him.
That is not speculation: it is fact.

Okay, we are talking about September of 2001, right? At this point in time, what proof existed that Bin Laden had anything to do with the attacks? The position of the Taliban was that they would not hand over Bin Laden if there was no proof provided of his guilt. Afghanistan had no extradition treaty with the United States, but even if they did, you can’t extradite somebody without providing any proof.

We can engage in all sorts of speculations about 9/11.

Well, sure you can, you can say that Santa Claus did it. But since when is pure speculation a reason to start a large-scale war?

What specifically is the proof that Bin Laden had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks?

That is actually two questions, by the way. In September of 2001, what was the proof of this? And second question, currently, in 2015, what proof is there of this?

I know there are too many unanswered questions.
But when the planes hit and 3,000 odd Americans and others were killed, you can’t expect POTUS to do nothing.

Well, this whole “you can’t expect the POTUS to do nothing” is typical warmongering rhetoric as far as I can see. “They attacked us”, so we have to do something, except that the “something” that “must be done” does not even include having an investigation of who the “they” that attacked us were! Isn’t that extraordinary? Does that not give you pause?

It is not a court of law, that you have to establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt, after months of testimony.

When the Taliban asked for proof, the U.S. government could not produce ANYTHING. Nothing. Squat. Your rhetoric about court of law is really beside the point. A case does not reach court if there is no evidence in the first place.

Unlike Iraq, there was some plausible justification for hitting Afghanistan.
No justification for staying there for 10+ years.
Hit’em hard, destroy stuff, then leave.

Hit ‘em hard, destroy stuff, then leave…. in other words, just conduct some terrorism there, on people who had nothing to do with the original terrorist act, and then go home. You seem to advocate just aimless violence.

How about advocating an actual investigation of the crime??? When did that occur?

Sorry, but when US mainland is attacked, you can’t debate who did it for the next X years.
You have to show everyone that there will be Hell to pay.

Avery, have you ever heard of “false flag terrorism”? That is the basic idea that a party that wants to start a war will actually conduct a terrorist operation and frame somebody else for it — false flag. There is a long history of this. You think that if there is a terrorist attack and it superficially appears that certain people did it, one should just assume so without any serious investigation???

The reason being that when the U.S. is attacked, you have to show that there will be hell to pay blah blah.

So you attack somebody without even having a proper investigation of who did the crime.

Completely different from the illegal invasion of Iraq, which had absolutely no connection to 9/11. None.

Well, this whole mythology that the war in Afghanistan was some kind of “good war” or justified and the Iraq war was an illegal war of aggression is just that, mythology. Both were illegal and unjustified, as all the wars that the U.S. has conducted since 9/11 have been illegal and unjustified.

Now…

Bin Laden is not fiction.
He existed.

Okay, so he existed. Is that proof that he orchestrated the 9/11 attacks?

He publicly announced he would hit Americans back for the insult of basing troops in Saudi Arabia.

Is that proof that Bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attacks?

Is there any proof of this?

Indeed. On a related tangent, I’m reading Phillip Agee’s account of the CIA’s 1960 overthrow of Ecuador’s government .. his detail of the operations invested in manipulating institutions and result closely mirror the symptoms we see in Ecuador 55 years after the fact (today.) The want of imagination and vacant desire to pursue new method taking into account the damage caused by previous incarnations of the same animal, sadly, point to a dead-end evolution.

And you’ve taken that freeze frame and constructed an entire Hollywood movie around out it…

Only if all of the IEDs found came with English manuals. Something that I’ve certainly never heard of…you guys are so strange, desperate to paint Iran as some sort of saint country, not even willing to countenance that much of what they do is bad.

Iran is your Madonna.

You do realise that we’re not going to war with Iran, right? That Netanyahu”s bad cop bluster is irrelevant on the world stage?

You also realise that the Iranian government is a thoroughly oppressive regime which is not appreciated by the country’s best and brightest?

I have a lot of sympathy for their actions but Iran is not Switzerland. And you don’t need to belive that it is to argue against war with them. Or even for an alliance

Seems like what special forces do….God, knows if it’s actually true…

For one its reported in the Daily Express!

“Americans appear to really like poodles”.

Evidently more than they like bears!

Damn straight. NATO is a wonderful way of making American foreign policy look as if it is shared by all of “the West”. Of course, any nation whose leaders like money is likely to follow the US line most of the time, but there might be some delays and confusion. NATO guarantees military discipline and immediate obedience. “When I say ‘Jump’, you JUMP – and on the way up, you ask, ‘How high, Sir?’”

“But when the planes hit and 3,000 odd Americans and others were killed, you can’t expect POTUS to do nothing”.

What a strange thing to say. Surely he should have tried to find out who was responsible, and if he found reliable evidence he could have proceeded against them. In fact it is pretty certain that Bin Laden was not responsible in any way for 9/11; he just approved of the attack after it happened. For this expressed opinion (and expressing opinion is one of those wonderful rights that Americans are so keen on) he was supposedly murdered in cold blood.

However, returning to what you wrote (as quoted above). If “POTUS” was obliged to lash out and inflict massive havoc and genocide because 3,000 Americans and others were killed, what do you think the Iraqis and other independent people were obliged to do after the USA launched an illegal unprovoked war of aggression against Iraq and killed 2.8 million people? If the deaths of 3,000 can only be avenged by killing nearly 3 million, the arithmetic is simple. Revenge for Iraq is due, and would involve the deaths of at least 3 billion Americans.

That arithmetic is one of the very good reasons why Christ taught that one should forgive one’s enemies, in place of the traditional Jewish tradition of “an eye for an eye”. It’s just a shame that those who control the USA, although they profess to be Christians, don’t behave like followers of Christ. To paraphrase Gore Vidal, their reversal of the principles of the New Testament is so perfect as almost to suggest that they have read it. But then their allegiance may be more to the Jewish traditions.

“Is there any proof of this?”

In a word, no. But that never stopped John Wayne.

That arithmetic is one of the very good reasons why Christ taught that one should forgive one’s enemies, in place of the traditional Jewish tradition of “an eye for an eye”. It’s just a shame that those who control the USA, although they profess to be Christians, don’t behave like followers of Christ.

Classic concern trolling. You’re not a real Christian unless you never stand up for yourself, you leave your door unlocked for your house to be robbed, you let illegal immigrants flood your country and you doom your progeny to live much, much worse lives than those you lived.

A healthy polity forgives mistakes, but it takes action against aggressions.

An unhealthy polity, like the one you are describing, sacrifices it’s children’s future so as to strike a feel-good moral pose now.

What you describe is the height of inhuman selfishness. Screw your kids and leapfrog your loyalties so you can feel sanctified.

Has there ever been a more self-absorbed, sanctimonious and stupid generation than the baby-boomers and their immediate followers?

And it gets more dangerous for America

“Buried deep in the archives of America’s intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush’s administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives — what is commonly referred to as a “false flag” operation. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/01/bombshell-israeli-intelligence-posed-as-cia-to-recruit-terror-group-for-covert-war-on-iran#sthash.gIxS13C7.dpuf

But Liberman says Americans are getting killed .So he joins MEK and runs UANI.

The proper response to 9/11 would have been closing the borders and deporting all non citizens and Israeli art students. Not invading another nation and murdering it’s citizens. 9/11 was a crime, not an act of war.

But if you really wanted revenge, bombing Riyadh and Tel Aviv would have come a lot closer to getting the people behind 9/11 than blowing up some goat herders in Afghanistan.

“‘Israeli Mossad Agents Posed as CIA Spies to Recruit Terrorists to Fight Against Iran’
Foreign Policy magazine cites CIA memos from 2007-2008 that the Mossad recruited members of Jundallah terror group to fight against Tehran; U.S. was reportedly furious with Israel and moved to limit joint intelligence programs.

Barak Ravid Jan 13, 2012 8:54 PM

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-mossad-agents-posed-as-cia-spies-to-recruit-terrorists-to-fight-against-iran-1.407224

That’s what Israeli’s do to its ally.

{“If the deaths of 3,000 can only be avenged by killing nearly 3 million, the arithmetic is simple”}

Go back and read my post again.

Read what I wrote about Iraq specifically before you conflate everything into one unrecognizable blob.
I specifically wrote Iraqi invasion was illegal and Iraq had zero connection to 9/11.

Yes, I said hit Afghanistan, destroy things and leave.
It should have been obvious I meant Taliban, their military camps, combatants, leadership, etc.
Which is what was done in the beginning with on-the-ground help of local enemies of Taliban, the Northern Alliance.
But Neocons decided to stay and make it another imperial project, which turned into a horrible mess like all their other projects.

Had US left after Taliban was scattered, which if memory serves was accomplished in just a few months, things would be much different.

Has the USA left when the Taliban was (first) scattered, the Taliban would have reassembled and in six months everything would have been as it was before. Which is what is happening right now, somewhat later.

Bush had no more reason to attack Afghanistan than to attack Iraq. To this day there is NO convincing evidence pointing to the planners and funders of 9/11, although if I had to I’d say the US government itself (or some elements of it) are the front-runners.

Although the casualties of the Afghanistan war may be many fewer than those of the Iraq war, both were equally illegitimate and illegal. As Michael Ledeen famously stated long ago, “Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business”. That is something only an arrogant racist, representing an arrogant racist nation, could ever say. The implication is clearly that the lives of foreigners don’t matter at all, as thousands of them can be killed simply “to show the world we mean business”. Very much in the same vein as your “…you can’t expect POTUS to do nothing”.

Hi Ron
Is this the book “Inside the Company?” circa 1975?

Very true that its only the incarnations we see. Not much changes. People get fixated on an idea they have, and pursue it with the zeal of a recent convert, only to realise rather late, the falsity or inadequacy of their original premise.

So you’re not a Christian. That’s not a problem. I have no respect, however, for people who publicly claim to be Christians while doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus Christ told his followers to do.

And I find it heartily amusing that you attribute to “baby boomers” the principles of Christ. Actually, they are somewhat older than that.

Nasty little ad hominem attack there. Maybe I should read up on *your* background… oh wait, I can’t because you use a handle.

Damn straight.

KA, I get that you’re a left leaning Palestinian or Iranian or whatever and I think in many ways we’d get along.

The problem is that you are really naive. That is that you hold Israel to a standard that no country could ever be held to and not fail.

I get that they are either directly oppressing or threatening your people but it does not help you to deal with this if you fall into magical thinking.

Israel is not an evil country nor a particularly powerful one. Using tricks when spying is not exactly unheard of. Nor is it a secret or even felt to be shameful – it is what spies do – it was a storyline on Homeland, for God’s sake!

Don’t fall in with these Jew obsessed crazies just because they seem like they might be useful. Their foaming at the mouth nonsense only tars your cause.

When somebody says support Palestine and a minute later blames Jews for 9/11 all they do is reduce support for Palestine.

They lose all credibility – because what they are saying is unbelievably stupid – and thereby diminish the credibility of everything else they say.

If you’re Iranian then you really have nothing to worry about. There will be no war with Iran. It was always just bluster and threats to make Iran do a few things differently. It might feel oppressive but it is par for the course in international politics, as it has been forever.

Of course all those idiots claiming that there was an international all-powerful Jew conspiracy for war with Iran will conveniently forget that…

That is something only an arrogant racist, representing an arrogant racist nation, could ever say.

Only if it is shorn of all context, and, even then, there is no racism aspect to it.

The context is that there are countries in the world ruled by extremely oppressive governments and that smashing those governments teaches others both to treat their civilians better and to respect America when they tell them to treat their civilians better.

Now, you can say that this is unrealistic, and I agree, but you’re guilty of magical thinking here.

You ascribe only one motivation to a group of people when you cannot ascribe only one motivation even to one person.

You discount all negative examples because well ‘they would say that wouldn’t they.’

You accentuate all positive examples by taking them entirely out of context and never trying to understand why they might say such a thing.

In short, you lack the faculties of critical thinking and this is why you get so much so wrong.

And I find it heartily amusing that you attribute to “baby boomers” the principles of Christ. Actually, they are somewhat older than that.

The irony is of course that you interpret Christianity according to the morally posturing baby-boomer tradition, yet you acknowledge that Christianity rather predates your generation.

A Christianity that for the first 1968 years of it’s existence bore no relation to your tepid interpretation.

And you’re right, I’m not religious, but your illogical amuses me.

When somebody says support Palestine and a minute later blames Jews for 9/11 all they do is reduce support for Palestine.

They lose all credibility – because what they are saying is unbelievably stupid – and thereby diminish the credibility of everything else they say.

If you’re Iranian then you really have nothing to worry about. There will be no war with Iran. It was always just bluster and threats to make Iran do a few things differently. It might feel oppressive but it is par for the course in international politics, as it has been forever.

Agree with every bit of this.

Of course curtailing the power of lobbies, in and of itself is a desirable outcome, yet the propensity (among many commentators here) to find the cause of all ills that plague society, at the door of the lobbies is at least wrong-headed and reductionist, but more importantly repeats historic errors.

How dare a country defend itself from US/British invasion by whatever means at its disposal. Including help from sympathetic neighbors. With all the bitching and moaning resulting from the use of a few relatively crude IED’s in the hands of a defenseless people, imagine the hue and cry if US/British forces were to inadvertently blunder into war with a country capable of actually defending itself.

There are about a hundred allegedly oppressive regimes out there.Why is Iran your target?Because they aren’t gay friendly hedonists?They believe in Allah?(or so they say)
It’s all propaganda from the Ziomonsters,who control our witless confused populace,as America collapses under the weight of neoliberal conservative Zionist control of the race to the bottom of human conduct and morality.
OBL;The FBI had no tangible evidence to tie him to 9-11,other than Memri produced propaganda.And where are the interviews,that one would think would be very revealing,from his wives and children,held captive by the Pakistanis?

Jeez,the Jews don’t like it,sheesh.
Are anti Semites born or made?
And no,I don’t believe Zionists are born that way,its a cultural thing, they are made that way,by paranoid and hubris filled morons.

A shill for realty maybe,to combat all the shills for more stupid wars and death.
Who are you shilling for?America has had enough Zionist shills to last US a 1000 years.

As a Palestinian and Iranian and a human being , I don’t need your reflective thoughtful garbage as advice.
The world isn’t obsessed with Jews The Jews are abusing the rest .

Iran doesn’t need your assurances that there won’t be any war or your threat that there would be war.

Following 911, it was the Zio who wanted to blame them ( Palestinian) associated them with 911, and irrespective of any links ,they demanded to take the fight to them .Those Zio include even person like Friedman .

In my previous comment, I wrote:

“……at the door of the lobbies is at least wrong-headed and reductionist, but more importantly repeats historic errors.”

When I meant to write :
“at the door of the Jewish population is at least wrong-headed and reductionist, but more importantly repeats historic errors.

How dare a country defend itself from US/British invasion by whatever means at its disposal. Including help from sympathetic neighbors. With all the bitching and moaning resulting from the use of a few relatively crude IED’s in the hands of a defenseless people, imagine the hue and cry if US/British forces were to inadvertently blunder into war with a country capable of actually defending itself.

I don’t think anyone resents Iraqis or Afghans for fighting back.

The issues are -

1. The Iranians providing them with weapons and training.

Something that I don’t think is hugely surprising nor damning but it probably is true.

2. The fighting by militia and terror groups when we were working with their elected governments and local forces to try and bring some social stability and development to their countries which is when the majority of our causalities occurred.

Having said that I don’t think anyone resents the locals for fighting us. Of course, had they not, their countries would be much nicer now..

Israel is not an evil country nor a particularly powerful one.

200 nukes say otherwise.

There are about a hundred allegedly oppressive regimes out there.Why is Iran your target

Iran is not my target. I am merely pointing out its faults. I very much admire a lot about Iran, its religion and its history.

If the so-called ‘ziomasters’ lol are in charge in America then why is America now entering an alliance with Iran in Syria?

The problem is that when the facts prove you conspiracy nuts wrong, you don’t change your minds, you just spin another layer deeper into your conspiracy.

What will it be now? Iran is a Zionist occupied government? Shias are secret Jews? All of this supposed bad blood has been a secret pact to distract from theor joint war against the poor (1 billion plus) Sunnis? Or just that they both drink the same babies blood and have decided to go to the bar together ?

Some excellent points made ,Mr Revulsky,

Our FBI data base on terrorism showed no evidence linking Bin Laden to 9-11.
He was wanted, however, in connection to other terrorist activity, like the ” USS Cole bombing in 2000″. At least that is my understanding.

Afghanistan was willing to” release” Bin Laden to US authorities were evidence provided to them of Bin Laden ‘s involvement in 9-11.

None was provided.

Why not ?

It is not to say that Bin Laden was not involved in 9-11…there is just no “evidence” to substantiate it.

The “rationales” provided for his involvement were at best, ad hoc, provisional, and constantly changing.

the first rationale…..”they hate our freedom”….

the second rationale….”resentment for our military and naval presence in Saudi Arabia”

The third rationale….”contempt for Israeli treatment of Palestinians”

Whether any or all of these” rationales” are actual motives for 9-11, or provide an evidentiary foundation for the attack are , in fact , two different matters.

None of these “rationales” are ” evidence” at all. They are “alleged “motives introduced into the American consciousness, that presupposes an evidentiary “certainty “where none existed.

This , I would say, was the first real act of the ” Terror Defrauding ” of the American People, by the “Neocons”.( that I know of )

The introduction of “rationales”( hyperbole) as SUBSTITUTES for evidence.

There being, in fact, no existing evidence at all.

The psychology of Neocon” Terror Fraud” went to work at once…..

And has been at work, ever since, “vaporizing “our solvency, our constitution, and our integrity as a Nation through defrauding us into perpetual catastrophic wars of aggression in the middle east.

I wold have to say Mr Revulsky, that the “key” word to the “arc” of our last 13 year ” trajectory” is….Fraud.

.

As a Palestinian and Iranian and a human being , I don’t need your reflective thoughtful garbage as advice.
The world isn’t obsessed with Jews The Jews are abusing the rest

Yeah, the few million Jews are abusing the whole world and the whole world is powerless in the face of the Jewish juggernaut…

Get a clue! Just remember – when there is no war against Iran – you will know that I was right.

And let’s be honest there won’t be, because America and Iran have been allied in Syria for the last year now. Because IS really are blood drinking genocidaires.

You will also know how much you discredited your other arguments by pursuing this conspiratorial nonsense.

However many nukes they have, they still have far less actual power in the region than Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Iran.

If you don’t know this then you don’t know anything about the region, and with this, I’m off.

It’s been fun. You guys are genuinely crazy, which is cool, but I hope that you grow a sense of perspective and realise that there really is life beyond one small particular people.

Maybe you could then focus your energy on arresting the decline and further decline of your own countries?

I’m going to back to just reading Steve Sailer. Someone who has taught me more than anyone else I know. When I make my fortune haha he’s getting a decent percentage.

The rest of you are just kooks.

This , I would say, was the first real act of the ” Terror Defrauding ” of the American People, by the “Neocons”.( that I know of )

Yes, ‘Inside The Company.’

I misspoke, the coup was initiated in 1961 (not 1960) .. the CIA had done much of the engineering via agents developed in political parties, labor unions, Christian and other social groups, and moles within the several Ecuadoran government departments (not least the police, intelligence and military), toward ousting the incumbent. The successor was even worse (from CIA perspective) than what they’d just lent incredible energy to send packing. So, our 1961 taxpayers then footed the bill for the next, 1962, iteration, all the while the process was producing radicalized future elements that would require neutralizing in turn. All with a single fixation: isolating Castro, the ultimate failed policy as we most recently see demonstrated.

It would appear, with the hindsight of the cold war behind us, this mentality had become so endemically entrenched, breaking the habit would be akin to putting the several intelligence agencies on whatever is the social prescription for methadone (noting again we see identical symptoms of CIA mischief in today’s Ecuador and I should have mentioned Venezuela as well.)

Well then, a parting gift for our British chaffer — who might better stick to analyzing Zionist influence in his own country. (And yes, stick with your Sailer blog; your attack on Alison Weir and Donald Neff was waaay out of line.)

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2015/8/19/british-jews-perform-pre-tsd-over-a-quenelle-in-edinburgh

Reported by Gilad Atzmon

Jewishnews Online reported today that British artist Alison Chabloz, who has been subject to constant Zionist and Jewish smear campaigns for more than a year, has managed to provoke an angry reaction from British Jews by performing a ‘quenelle’ salute outside Edinburgh Castle. Chabloz perfoms this week at the Edinburgh Fringe.

Alison Chabloz, whose solo acoustic show is called ‘Autumn’s Here’, opposes Israel and Zionism and has sent Israel supporters images of people performing the quenelle.

While the quenelle is defined by its inventor, the popular French comedian Dieudonné Mbala Mbala as an “anti establishment sauté”, many Jews insist that the quenelle stands for an ‘inverted Nazi salute.’ No one is yet to grasp how Jews have reached this peculiar observation. This obscure and ungrounded interpretation of the quenelle gesture should be realised as a collective outburst of Pre Traumatic Stress Disorder (Pre TSD). In The Wandering Who I argue that Jewish politics and culture is often dominated by a unique phantasmic fear of an imaginary fictional event. The fear of the quenelle is a classic case of Pre-TSD.

However, the Edinburgh Fringe festival didn’t succumb to The Lobby. In response to a complaint, a festival organiser said: “Fringe Society do not select or programme the Festival Fringe, nor do we curate or censor content at the Festival, or censor the behaviour or actions of performers. It is not within our remit or our open access ethos to allow or refuse performers a platform for their work that is within the law.”

The British Jewish-News outlet reported today that Chabloz said she had been the subject of a “smear campaign, including letters to my employer as well as a host of abusive blog posts and online bullying – behaviour better suited to a primary school playground”.

On her blog, she wrote: “After months of being hounded online by a small group of hard-line Zionists, I decided yesterday to dedicate a Quenelle gesture to my abusers, one of whom wrote a letter of complaint to EdFringe in a failed attempt to have my show banned.”

Autumn’s Here

https://twitter.com/ajctmusic

S2C,

Don’t forget Ukraine.

Robin,

What’s fascinating about this list leaders of ‘Israel’ is that while Germans, both Christian and Jewish, set up the institutions and social, political structure of the state as well as provided the lion’s share of the wealth that created the ‘Jewish’ state, it has never been headed by a Jew of German origin, nor do German Jews today seem to have much impact on the character of Israel.

Israel is run by zionist Bolshevik revolutionaries and has been since 1931.

Not to worry, Ukraine has had its ‘special’ place in my thoughts

http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/08/17/ukraine-for-dummies/

It’s as much German intelligence as CIA, only the Germans are far more competent (and consequently less visible)

Sorry, meant RTW.

Robin,

I wouldn’t click on RTW’s website.

First, it’s pathetic.
Second, I know this from sad experience — I browsed there once and my computer became infected. Spent hours cleaning and restoring my computer/files.
Just a word of caution.

Sorry, meant RTW

It’s ok, it’s just another opportunity to poke fun at the soulless, anti-Semitic automaton ..

http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/04/03/john-locke/

^ S2C reminds me of this guy at times (among others)

And if you believe this crap from S2C:

Second, I know this from sad experience — I browsed there once and my computer became infected. Spent hours cleaning and restoring my computer/files.

You’d have to overcome 2 hurdles; the far-fetched proposition WordPress is a malicious site and the idea Ron Unz would be dumb enough to send thousands of people to this article at a compromised site:

http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/07/19/black-boxes-dark-arts-geopolitics/

(speaking of Ukraine)

ahh

so you concede the point that your website, which you exploit unz.com to promote, is pathetic.

Utter rubbish. I’ve visited RTW’s site quite frequently, with no untoward consequences at all. Very interesting and informative, satirical articles OTOH.

Any infections that your computer experienced are likely the side effects of your own vicarious habits.

“Having said that I don’t think anyone resents the locals for fighting us. Of course, had they not, their countries would be much nicer now..”

Since it apparently escaped your attention, Iraq was a much nicer place before Israel and the US decided to remove Saddam Hussein and destroy the country. As were Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Ukraine.

so you concede the point that your website, which you exploit unz.com to promote, is pathetic

Pathetic is in the eye of the beholder (a relative thing to people’s taste) but meanwhile you’ve conceded in no uncertain terms that you are a liar

Even if some Americans were killed and maimed in Iraq by Iranian-provided weapons; What of it? Many, many more Americans were killed and maimed in Vietnam and Korea not only by arms provided by the Chinese and the Rusians, but also by Chinese fighting on the side of communists on the Korean Peninsula.
Imagine too, how many in Yemen – civilians as well as fighters – are being killed by the US-provided arms to the Saudis every day!
One would never have thought those war-loving Americans to be such whiners!

. The fighting by militia and terror groups when we were working with their elected governments

Those elected governments were/are shams filled with traitors and puppets. Or did you consider the Vichy and Quisling governments to be legitimate as well?

As for your claim that Israel is not the most powerful nation in the Middle East, the only 3 nations with any hope of taking Israel out are Russia, China, and the US. Israel does what it wants to who it wants in the ME.

And you’re just a k… “jew” who pretends unconvincingly to be something else (a Brit, a soldier who served in Afghanistan, a disinterested student of middle east history, a citizen of the world concerned for the mental health of pathologized antisemites). I don’t think you’ve tricked anybody with your ruse, but only confirmed the righteousness of the time-tested self-defensive aversion to your race of sneaks and liars that is today flowering all over the world.

Bravo, Don … you nailed it perfectly … these perfidious entities are now coming out of the woodwork since the 5+1 nuclear agreement with Iran that was signed just a couple of weeks ago. Iranians killing USSA military personnel in Iraq? Where’s the proof?
I, too, am thankful to Mr. Giraldi for his current article disputing such claims. If USSA troops hadn’t been in Iraq fighting this illegal war of aggression, none would have been killed. I feel for the families of the dead and maimed …. however, there are always consequences for wars of this type. Instead of blaming Iran, these idiots should lay blame where it actually belongs … on the USSA Gov’t (especially, the Pentagon), the Trotskyites aka Neocons, and most of all, Israel, who issues the illegal orders in the first place

Conspiracy is out of date. They do it out in the open. Who can stop them ?

Begging is fine , so is bribing and promising which are illegals and antinational or even treasonous .

“Huckabee Says Would Recognize West Bank as Israel if Elected President

In visit to Israel and West Bank, Republican presidential hopeful holds fundraiser in Shiloh, denounces two-state solution.

The Associated Press | 
Aug 19, 2015 8:46 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.671987″

He does not need to go the dark side ,in an alley and make deal. He bends backward and takes it “like a prisoner ” hoping for some dough from AIPAC.

How many planes have disintegrated from the sky? How many scientists have died? How many babies ?
Suffering under sanctions and reeling from targeted killings Iran has paid enormous price over the decades .

Zionist loves the gory party taken straight out of the same Iraq playbook preceding 2003 war. Now they want 2003 .
In reply Zio says don’t believe in those conspiracy theory

“Israel is not an evil country nor a particularly powerful one. . . .”

Bullshit.

Oh, but you don’t understand. One advantage of being the world’s only indispensable nation is exempting oneself from rules that apply to everyone else. And that includes the privilege of whining and complaining about the lack of gratitude and respect for democracy imposed from above.

I think Mr. Giraldi claimed the insurgency was, quote, “largely” Sunni -not as you would characterize exclusively so- and that’s accurate. There was in fact a battle fought in Najaf -a holy city to the Shi’a- in 2004 by the Mahdi Army with US forces which ended in a negotiated cease fire. Muqtada al-Sadr went on to eventually join al-Maliki’s coalition government in 2010. Yes, the Mahdi Army were Shi’a but that doesn’t prove that Iran was behind the Mahdi Army nor have you supplied any credible source for such a position. The Shi’a sect originated in Iraq, and there were Shi’as there long before the Safavids converted Iran to Shi’ism in the 16th Century.

The question was where the EFPs were being used. Giraldi claimed by implication they were being used by Sunnis, and that it was unlikely that Iran would support Sunni groups. But if the parallel Shiite insurgency was using them it’s completely plausible.

If you don’t think Iran supported the Mahdi Army and Badr Brigades, there’s pretty much no hope for you.

http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/080804_jam.pdf

In August 2007, Muqtada al Sadr publicly confirmed Mahdi Army’s relationship with Hezbollah, stating: “We have formal links with Hezbollah, we do exchange ideas and discuss the situation facing Shi’ites in both countries. We copy Hezbollah in the way they fight and their tactics, we teach each other and we are getting better through this.” By 2008, many of the weapons caches seized in Basra, Sadr City, and Amarah included Iranian made rockets, mortars, and EFP’s.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/10/iraqi_troops_find_ef.php

Notice the raids and EFPs are in Sadr City, a Shia area, and note all the captured Iranian agents.

Garaldi is either colossally ignorant or dishonest.

You’re an eloquent man, Mr. Price.

Dear Boomstick,

If being “honest” is what is important, then the question of who was shipping arms into Iraq, really becomes a question of…who WASN’T,

I would imagine nearly every arms manufacturer in the “world “was shipping weapons, hand over fist, into what one could only describe as that catastrophic ” colossal goat f#ck ” in the middle east.
We unleashed pandemonium, we unleashed hell over there, and “everyone” who could, was shipping ” it” in ! As much as they could, as fast as they could, and to any and all buyers…

As in… just take a number, and to heck if you do!

It was a free for all, an absolute disaster, a horror and a crime of the highest magnitude, and if you really don’t think so…..

then I guess there is really no help for you, either.

And, guess what: contemporaneous reports say the Shiites favored EFPs.

http://www.ufppc.org/us-a-world-news-mainmenu-35/6581-background-in-the-land-of-the-blood-feuds-us-soldiers-in-the-triangle-of-death-wp.html

“We are in the middle of it,” Garrett said, indicating the center of his area of operations, which is the size of Rhode Island. “I’m not fighting one sect or the other. I’m fighting both. And not only am I fighting both, but at certain points I have to put my forces in between the Sunni and Shia groups to protect the populace.”

Earlier in the day, a roadside bomb had exploded near a convoy of Humvees close to Kalsu. Shiite militias control one side of the road, Sunni insurgents the other. To determine the enemy’s identity, Garrett wanted to know what type of bomb it was.

He learned it was an explosively formed penetrator, or EFP, a powerful device that the U.S. military says is used mainly by Shiite militias.

“Shiites don’t like to shoot. . . . They just EFP you,” said Maj. Craig Whiteside of Silver Spring, Md. “The Sunnis use snipers, RPGs, mortars — they’ll attack you in every possible way,” he added, using the abbreviation for rocket-propelled grenades.
…
On a recent day along what they call Route Cleveland, Balcavage’s soldiers were on high alert. Since they began operations here in November, there had been at least six EFP attacks on the two-lane road to Iskandariyah. The convoy of Humvees moved slowly, the drivers avoiding large rocks or concrete blocks where bombs are typically planted.

They cautiously passed what they call the “EFP hot zone,” a sprawling apartment complex filled with Mahdi Army militiamen. Larger-than-life images of Sadr, the cleric, were plastered on buildings.

[…] Read more […]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/08/foundation_for_the_defense_of_democracies_inside_the_small_pro_israel_think.html

The same play book,the same arguments,the same focus on splitting the hairs nd ignoring the largest most effective,most treacherous open cabal of the pushers and enforcers of the Iraq war in every domain in American lives from TV,newsprint,election campaign,townhall meetings,OpEd ,periodicals that are distributed free to the White House cabinet meetings,to the Defenseolocy bard essential readings to NYPD expert briefings are opening the same pages in same choreographed moments for the same audience .

These folks again will try to split hair again – did Kurd do that or did Alwaites do this, did Druze mingle with IS or did Maronite sabotage the Christian from Bethlehelm , did Pakistan fly the nukes to Saudi or did Iran kill the fishermen , did Israel try to stop US and say Pakistan was the major threat .

EMET means truth in Hebrew. There is a reason for the incorporation of this word in the jargon by the FDD

Conspiracy theory is buzzing around Israel

A growing number of Israelis believe that the Duma firebombing that killed eighteen-month-old Ali Dawabshe and his father Sa’ad was carried out by Palestinians.

In the settlement of Kiryat Arba, whose Chief Rabbi Dov Lior endorsed Torat Hamelech, a book which describes when it is permissible to kill non-Jews, the conspiracy theory appears to be popular.

“There’s no proof there was an attack,” said Lior, a restaurant owner. “But everybody thinks it was Palestinians who did it.”

He believes that the murder of baby Ali was an honor killing. “It’s the same as the Abu Khdeir killing,” he said, referring to the rumor planted by Israeli police after the discovery of the Palestinian teenager’s charred body last summer.
- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/conspiracy-palestinians-firebombing#sthash.crj452TQ.dpuf

[…] War War Propaganda Wikileaks World Yemen By Philip Giraldi Global Research, August 20, 2015 The Unz Review 18 August […]

“Giraldi is either colossally ignorant or dishonest.”

Yeah, right.

He is quite correct that the significant majority of IEDs/EFPs targeting US forces were used by Sunnis.

It’s true that the Shia militia groups, e.g. JAM (Mahdi Army) and Badr, did use them as well. But it’s interesting that none of the articles on Bartlett that I can find state exactly where his devastating injury took place. He claims in an oral history piece I saw that his unit area of operations ran from Sadr City (Shia) to Salman Pak (Sunni). So it’s not even clear whether the probability was of a Sunni or Shia EFP.

But there is a second key point that Giraldi does not address. With all due respect to Bartlett, who has suffered a grievous injury, so what if the Iranians provided EFPs to the Shia militias? What do you expect that they would have done?

Let’s be honest. We invaded Iraq with the intention of imposing a transformative political-cultural reformation on a large swath of the Middle East. Had we ever been able to stabilize the situation in Iraq and acquire the long-term basing that we originally sought, we almost certainly would have used Iraq as a strategic platform to destabilize/overthrow/regime change the Iranian and Syrian governments. We didn’t invade Iraq just to invade Iraq.

The Iranians realized that this was our goal and devised a strategy to thwart it, namely supporting Shia militias opposed to our presence. Did the Iranians contribute to the deaths and wounding of US soldiers? Yes, of coursed they did. If I had been in the place of the Iranians, I would have adopted the same set of tactics to support the same strategy. Americans have the bizarre and self-obsessed notion that it’s never legitimate for other states to pursue their goals, including their own survival, at the expense of American goals and those who pursue them, e.g., deployed military units. This self-indulgence blinds us to the realities of the world and leaves us with a childish understanding of why things happen.

US soldiers have been killed by British, Mexicans, Germans, Chinese, and Vietnamese among others. It has been deemed to be in the national interest that we reestablish relations with communist Vietnam even though we lost 50,000 troops in that conflict. Now, it has been deemed–very correctly in my view–that we need to reestablish relations with Iran despite the fact that we may have suffered casualties from EFPs supplied by Iran.

Time for Americans to grow up. If you threaten the survival of other states such as Iran, they will target you for it. Why did Pakistan, with our support, provide material aid to those killing Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan in the 1980s? For the same reason that the Iranians targeted us.

So there are two issues here:

1. Giraldi is right that most EFPs were Sunni-employed weapons, and it’s not clear from anything I see what evidence there is to support the idea that the one targeting SSG Bartlett was Shia and, therefore, POSSIBLY supplied by Iran.

2. It is not inherently immoral or evil for Iran to defend itself from a US policy designed to bring about the downfall of its government, and only whiny, self-indulgent Americans could imagine otherwise.

One day the Iraqis are capable of producing a nuclear weapon and the next they are incapable of making an EFP. How strange the ways of American propaganda!

But is this really “American” propaganda or is it Zionist propaganda?

“Miller’s key role in all this is now the subject of story and song: Chalabi and his fellow “heroes in error” would pass on their carefully calibrated lies to Miller, who would put them on the front page of the New York Times – just in time for Dick Cheney to be asked about it on “Meet the Press” or whatever administration sounding board was being utilized that Sunday morning.

The War Party is using the same strategy this time around, feeding disinformation to the media on the Iran deal to our compliant media. Just take a look at the brouhaha over this story by George Jahn of the Associated Press.

What’s going on with the Jahn story ought to evoke a sense of deja-vu in those of us who remember the run up to the Iraq war. Then, as now, the War Party leaked documents that supposedly proved their intended target was engaged in some perfidy: then, as now, the “respectable” media was the chosen conduit though which this war propaganda entered and shaped the discourse. Then it was Judy Miller’s fables that graced the front page of the New York Times: today it is George Jahn’s equally disingenuous tall tales that appear in the “news” sections of mainstream media outlets throughout the world. As I write this former AIPAC official Wolf Blitzer is repeating the Jahn allegations on CNN even though they’ve been debunked all over the place.”

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/08/20/its-miller-time-judy-that-is/

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/20/9182185/ap-iran-inspections-parchin

In this age transformed by Zionisim ,one doesn’t need to dwell on the possibility of some crypto conspiracy theories . Zionism has become the valve and the filter that stops the truth ,allows the lies and screens out all other noises .
Just like the medieval source of the information that was built around the axis of the church and the crown – Sun moves around the earth,God has chosen the king as earthly administrator and the bishop carries out the task of the divine domain. Anything outside is heresy ,witchcraft,or thievery .

Military personnel are allowed to, even required to, refuse orders that are illegal. To refuse deployment in an illegal war is not only legal, it is constitutionally required. Soldiers who go off to war by simply being obedient to those giving the order, are abdicating their responsibility, their personal, compulsory, responsibility, to be aware of what constitutes lawful conduct and to act at all times within the law. At various times it has been stated that “you don’t get to choose your deployment”. However, that’s simply not true. While the military is known for its requirement for comprehensive obedience, it is little known and little recognized that you are also required as stated above to disobey unlawful orders. That requirement is entirely antithetical to the military culture, and pure window dressing of course. It exists purely to create the illusion that the military is responsive to the law. Nevertheless, it’s a legal fact.
Gregory Hinzman and Ehren Watada, among others, chose to refuse deployment and were completely successful in their refusal. But they and others like them were also instantly court martialed for refusal to obey orders.

Any discussion of what you can choose to do or not do in the military must include the caveat that there will be a price to pay. You are perfectly free to make your own choice to act in accordance with the law, but the military doesn’t give a sh*t about the law and will court martial your @ss in a New York minute if you disobey any order no matter how egregiously vile or illegal. So the bottom line is that you can make a choice consistent with your conscience and/or the law,but it may will require courage, strength of character, and probably it would be smart to have a plan for dealing with the consequences that are certain to follow your personal, independent decision making.

“Hezbollah operatives were captured by US forces inside Iraq, and they were absolutely responsible for the deaths of American soldiers.”

link please.

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/tg1775.aspx

I replied to this thread twice with links so people could read further about Hezbollah activity in Iraq. Strangely, both replies disappeared. Hope you get this one. There is plenty of information available about Hezbollah operating in Iraq for the intellectually curious.

thx very much